1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,000 Hello everyone and welcome back to the Hostel Road Trip Podcast. 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:08,000 The podcast that literally takes its show on the road. 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Listen in as James Black and Bobby Dyer, owners of International Travelers House Hostels, 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:19,000 travel around the country to learn about these great locations and incredible people 5 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:25,000 that come together to provide a unique and exciting experience for travelers from all over the world. 6 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:33,000 Welcome back to the Hostel Road Trip Podcast, Season 3 Kickoff here in Charleston, South Carolina. 7 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:40,000 We are here with the godmother of hostels, dare I say, Miss Vicki Mattis. 8 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,000 Well, thank you so much for having me. 9 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,000 And Robert Dyer is with me again, co-founder of ICH Hostels. 10 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:50,000 Excited to be here, a little chilly, but having a great time in Charleston. 11 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:57,000 We are in a real recording studio, which is so much cooler than the normal surroundings that we find ourselves in. 12 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:02,000 Not that we don't love recording in the hostels, but this is a rare opportunity. 13 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,000 And thank you so much for having us in your radio station studio. 14 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:12,000 But as we always do, we love to hear about your personal journey, 15 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,000 which is going to be so very interesting as compared to others in the hostel industry. 16 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,000 But how did you first get exposed to hostels? 17 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:25,000 I was exposed to hostels when I was 18 years old, and my brother invited me to backpack across Europe with him. 18 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,000 Oh, what a cool big brother. Nice. 19 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,000 Yeah, that's right. It's all thanks to Pete, which is my friend, Pano. 20 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,000 And he planned the whole trip, and he told me hostels are incredible. 21 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:41,000 I had never stayed in a hostel in the US, but we went to, oh man, I have 20 plus hostels. 22 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,000 And we did a six-week backpacking trip together. 23 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,000 And yeah, that's what got me started. 24 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:54,000 Awesome. So you go do that tour and you come back, but as we just found out right over here, you're not from Charleston. 25 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:55,000 You're from Ohio. 26 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,000 Well, I was born in Connecticut, and then I lived in Michigan, and then I lived in Ohio, 27 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,000 and then I lived in Florida, and California, and New York, and New Jersey. 28 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:04,000 Wow, what a gypsy. 29 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,000 So I lived a lot of places. 30 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,000 How did you fall here? 31 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,000 I fell here because I went to the College of Charleston. 32 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:17,000 But really I fell in love with Charleston, and they happened to have a college that didn't have a football team, 33 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,000 which was kind of crucial for me. 34 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,000 My brother went to Penn State, and I spent a lot of time with him there. 35 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,000 It's not my thing. 36 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:25,000 It's very overbearing sometimes. 37 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,000 It's by the sea, it was public school, it just had such a great vibe. 38 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:33,000 Charleston's so walkable, so bikeable, it's so beautiful. 39 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:37,000 I fell in love with the city, and I've been here pretty much ever since. 40 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:42,000 Cool, now how much longer after graduation did you open up the Not So Hostile? 41 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,000 Well, it was in my senior year actually. 42 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:46,000 Really? 43 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,000 Yeah, so my second half of my senior year. 44 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,000 I started in December of 2006, and I graduated in May 2007. 45 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:57,000 So I was working full-time and started to manage the hostel. 46 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,000 Wow, we graduated college the same year and month. 47 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,000 You look so much better than I am. 48 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:04,000 That's great. 49 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,000 How did you find the hostel? 50 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:14,000 I knew someone that knew the current manager, and the way it works here is that if I ever left, 51 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,000 I would have to find somebody. 52 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,000 It's not a job that's posted anywhere, or it's kind of a word of mouth. 53 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:26,000 So I knew someone, she was leaving, she actually was going to get married to Joe Gill, 54 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:30,000 who presented last year at the conference, who was from Asheville. 55 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,000 Oh, that was an interesting circle. 56 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,000 Yes, it was a real close. 57 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:41,000 So she still was in that hostel world, but she left, and they needed someone to take over the hostel. 58 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,000 And that was cool, we got to meet your business partner, Bob, 59 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:49,000 and you've got this really cool equity sharing type of operation and structure. 60 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,000 Tell us more about that. How does that work? 61 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:58,000 So as a recent college grad with $30,000 in debt, I didn't have any equity, didn't have very much credit. 62 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:03,000 But I had this opportunity to run this business, and we do a 25-75 split. 63 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,000 So it's a good deal, depending on which way. 64 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,000 Yeah, as time progresses, coming out of college. 65 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,000 Oh my gosh, no, it's actually been incredible. 66 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:19,000 If I was a salaried employee, the difference, I mean, I think I made $18,000 the first year, 67 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,000 and then the next year, $21,000. 68 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:28,000 And then it just continued to grow, and so I could see that my efforts were related to how much I was getting paid. 69 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,000 Which is great. 70 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:30,000 Which is very different. 71 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:31,000 It's motivating. 72 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:39,000 If I just got paid $30,000 a year for the past 12 years, I probably would have switched careers or something. 73 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:44,000 And it's very different that I'm so motivated, I'm so tied into the business. 74 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:49,000 But now my 25% has become 20% because I saw how valuable it was, 75 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,000 and so now all of my employees are tied into that system. 76 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,000 So I give them 5% of my ownership. 77 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:55,000 That's pitching. 78 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:56,000 Yeah. 79 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:57,000 That's good for you. 80 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:01,000 Well, that also would explain as you've retained some awesome staff. 81 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:02,000 I have. 82 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,000 My staff stays for five years plus. 83 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,000 Unheard of in the industry. 84 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,000 Nicole, before, stayed at the Annex for five years. 85 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:09,000 Bailey's on her sixth year. 86 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:10,000 I love Bailey. 87 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:11,000 She's great. 88 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:12,000 She is so wonderful. 89 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,000 She's, yes, her sixth year anniversary. 90 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,000 And they're all so happy, you can tell. 91 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,000 That's something that's a challenge. 92 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,000 A lot of times you'll have that employee that stays for that long, 93 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,000 but sometimes they run their course and you're both not happy with the situation. 94 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,000 But they're all glowing. 95 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:28,000 So you're doing something right. 96 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:29,000 Thank you. 97 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,000 We provide housing. 98 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:31,000 We provide incentives. 99 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,000 Like they're, it's kind of more of a European model. 100 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,000 So my business partner is European. 101 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:38,000 I'm actually European. 102 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,000 My 100% Greek, but my parents are from Greece. 103 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:45,000 I have my citizenship with Greece and the USA. 104 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,000 Yes, the Greek, yes. 105 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,000 But that model is a little bit different. 106 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,000 So it's like, if you have these comforts, 107 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:57,000 if you have some secure lodging and you have some help with your health insurance 108 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:02,000 and you have this space and time to explore other things, 109 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:09,000 I don't feel that we are, we don't feel that same pressure that I think a lot of our cohorts do 110 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:15,000 of that living paycheck to paycheck and just the incredible pressure 111 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:21,000 of having to make everything work with limited funds and resources. 112 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,000 And so much of that comes from having that team. 113 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,000 By keeping them together, you're allowed to rely on them and they're comfortable 114 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,000 and it kind of just goes, keeps going in a full circle. 115 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,000 Yeah. 116 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:36,000 And then when I realized too that I am not able to run my hostel without my staff. 117 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:41,000 So it's like I'm getting, I think, too much of the credit for the not so hostel 118 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,000 on the front page of the Business Review. 119 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,000 And I get these awards, the highest green business awards. 120 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,000 And the press wants to talk to me. 121 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:49,000 We're in the New York Times. 122 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,000 I see it in your place. It's great. 123 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:52,000 It's my staff. 124 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,000 Yeah. 125 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,000 Who's there like 35 hours a week every week? 126 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,000 Like who's scrubbing the toilets every day? 127 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:02,000 It's like I did that for a long time and I still do that once a week. 128 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,000 I still like. 129 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:04,000 That's great. 130 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:05,000 You still work from the front. 131 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,000 I still work the front desk. Yeah. Once a week. 132 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,000 How about the hostel? Tell us a little more about like the size of it 133 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,000 and kind of how it's grown as now you have an annex house. 134 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:18,000 Yeah. So the original size, we had 24 dorm beds at the main location and 8 private rooms. 135 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:24,000 And in 2010, I opened up an annex location, which added an additional six private rooms. 136 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:28,000 So we can't we have 38 beds and we sleep 50 if everybody is. 137 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:33,000 I really love the layout of your hostel, the original location. 138 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,000 It's got a couple of buildings that kind of go back into this expanse of a property 139 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:42,000 that you have a lot of open space, plenty of parking, but the bonfire last night, things like that. 140 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,000 Really cool communal spaces outdoor. 141 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:48,000 Have you always had so many dorm the same number of dorm beds and privates? 142 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:54,000 Or have you kind of seen how the market demands more dorms and private kind of fluctuated or? 143 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,000 It's always been the same. Oh, really? Yeah. 144 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,000 Nice. That's the best. 145 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,000 You hit it right from the beginning and you stuck with it. 146 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,000 Well, I just think dorm beds are really important. 147 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:09,000 And I know that people say that the market is in private rooms and I do see that in the weekend. 148 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:14,000 But, you know, my people who stay in dorm beds, it's just it's different. 149 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:20,000 Like there has to be hostel owners have to carve out spaces for backpackers. 150 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,000 Or you lose the identity and the energy of the place. 151 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:28,000 It's so true. But I think that's so cool that to find out that you have that system with your staff of that. 152 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,000 As you rise, they rise with you. Absolutely. 153 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:35,000 They earn with you. And I think that's great for other operators out there to hear. 154 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:41,000 Sometimes your staff can get discouraged as you do better and they perceive and see you doing better, 155 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,000 but not as much as them doing better. 156 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:49,000 So I can definitely connect that now and seeing how your staff works and works with the passion that they have. 157 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:55,000 Did you have any inspiration hostels that really got you excited to kind of start it or maybe some that you still follow? 158 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,000 Yeah, absolutely. Actually, the same as yours. The hostel in the forest. 159 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,000 Oh, it's such a wonderful place. 160 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:05,000 And life changing hostel for me. I've done several of their full moon sweat lodges. 161 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:12,000 I just all the green initiatives that we have at the hostel really were inspired by my background in permaculture. 162 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:17,000 I lived down in California for a year and went to the New College of California for a little little stint there 163 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:23,000 and got certified in permaculture and grew my own food and had this love for organic farming. 164 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:27,000 But the hostel in the forest, I guess, brought those two worlds together. 165 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:32,000 They have a gray water system, composting toilets, you know, they make you take all your trash out. 166 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:37,000 You have this awareness of how much trash you are generating. 167 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,000 So that is true. It makes you aware of your footprint and your impact. 168 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,000 So yeah, and conscious of it and little things like our trash bags. 169 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,000 There's so much more. Well, not so much more expensive. 170 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:53,000 I guess they're slightly more expensive, but they're biodegradable, which to me is just thinking full circle. 171 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:58,000 That's what the hostel in the forest really makes me reconsider. It's like, what's the full circle here? 172 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:04,000 I'm putting something in this bag that's not going to decompose for hundreds of years. 173 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,000 So the smallest thing I can do is to make it in a bio based bag. 174 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:14,000 Yeah, that's amazing. I was traveling in Brazil recently and, you know, it's just the difference in the size of their trash cans. 175 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:20,000 Like in other countries, they have like tiny little for us in America would be like the bathroom trash can. 176 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:25,000 But in America, we need giant trash cans everywhere. It's amazing just how much trash we consume in America. 177 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,000 We produce so much. So much junk. 178 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:32,000 Right. And so I was part of the Green Business Challenge for the city of Charleston for several years 179 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,000 and always won the top awards along with Boeing and SCENG. 180 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,000 And then there'd be me like the not so hostile. 181 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,000 I love it. I love it. 182 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,000 Because we would track how much, how many gallons of recycling do we take out every week? 183 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:47,000 We would track it all year long. We track our water bill, our energy bill. 184 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,000 That's awesome. 185 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:54,000 Yeah. So little things like green cleaners. I don't expect my staff to use anything that I don't use. 186 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,000 We use organic sheets like everywhere possible. 187 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:02,000 I think it's so important that consideration that's put into it. 188 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:07,000 Like at the conference we've been talking about, your personality and your soul is in it. 189 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,000 In it. In it. Yeah. 190 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:14,000 And so even though we don't advertise a lot of that stuff, it's just that it's important to all of us. 191 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,000 And those little choices you vote with your dollar. Yes. You really do. 192 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:26,000 So when you're buying thousands of trash bags, what kind of trash bags do I want to buy? 193 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:31,000 When I'm buying so much cleaner, what kind of cleaner do I want to buy? 194 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:35,000 I feel running a hostel is so much of, like we've been saying, a reflection of yourself. 195 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:43,000 And for myself and us, we grow all of our own food and we try to live off our land and our garden 196 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:47,000 at our personal home and then also at the hostel as well and feed the guests as much as we can. 197 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:53,000 But it's so much easier to, again, provide the guests with your same lifestyle. 198 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,000 Use the same pillows that you give your guests. Use the same sheets that you give your guests. 199 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,000 The same mattresses that you have at your house are the same when your guests are getting. 200 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:03,000 Because it'd be more challenging if you have to almost live two lives. 201 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,000 You have your own personal life and then you have the hostel life. 202 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,000 It just doesn't, it's not as authentic. 203 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,000 Practice when you preach, right? Yeah. 204 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:14,000 I think it makes such an impact too when someone tries to take on the image of a green company 205 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,000 for the marketing prowess of our advantage. 206 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:22,000 Then you see the guy walk outside and throw a butt in the ground and a plastic cup in the trash and walk away. 207 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:28,000 Obviously, your staff's not going to follow as passionately if the person leading the charge is living it. 208 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:32,000 Yeah, so I had this very interesting system for a little while with my staff 209 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:37,000 where if I didn't honor my word, then I would owe them 30 minutes of service. 210 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,000 Oh, look at you. That's amazing. 211 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,000 It's very Catholic of you. 212 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:49,000 I learned it from a teacher, a local mentor, just that taught me how important it is. 213 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,000 I can't have these policies and rules if I don't live them. 214 00:12:53,000 --> 00:13:01,000 Not follow them, but like if I say I'm going to be there at 12 o'clock and I show up at 12.01, it's like, what do I owe you? 215 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,000 I told this girl I would switch the laundry and I didn't. 216 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:07,000 So the policy is like, please bring it to my attention. 217 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,000 So then I think I did her laundry, I washed someone else's car. 218 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,000 That experiment was like, OK, how much am I willing to say? 219 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,000 Will you switch the laundry? I'm like, maybe. 220 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,000 Honestly, the answer is maybe. 221 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,000 Or the answer is like, yes, and I will do it. 222 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,000 Or, no, I can't do that. 223 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,000 So just bringing this awareness by doing it myself, it does spread to my staff. 224 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,000 Yeah, organically it does. 225 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:39,000 Yeah, I mean, it's just like you have to really embody who you like, who you want to be. 226 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:44,000 And then I created this feedback system, too, just that how am I doing? 227 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,000 I love Jack Canfield's Success Principles. 228 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,000 It's a fantastic, inspiring book. 229 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,000 But it's like, how am I going to grow through feedback? 230 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,000 And my staff has brought lots of things to my attention. 231 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:59,000 It's like, oh, that's not fair. I can't do that anymore. 232 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:04,000 And that's so crucial to have and be willing to accept that constructive criticism 233 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,000 so that you can get better. 234 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,000 And so much when you get up at the top or you're running your own business, 235 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,000 you can get that mindset of having, I think, not thick enough skin 236 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,000 or not willing to take that reflective moment to see how you're doing. 237 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,000 So I think that's great. How are we doing? 238 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,000 Bailey will write me a list of everything I did wrong on the shift. 239 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:22,000 That's great. 240 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,000 You know, especially I noticed, like, leading up to the conference, 241 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,000 when I'm stretched pretty thin, she'd be like, you didn't open the blinds. 242 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,000 You didn't empty the coffee filter. 243 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,000 I'm like, thank you. And I'm sorry. 244 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,000 And I won't do it next time. 245 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,000 And, you know, but that my staff is on that level of comfort with, like, 246 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,000 to bring it up at our staff meeting in front of everyone. 247 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,000 These are all the things you didn't do. 248 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,000 And well-trained. 249 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,000 Very well-trained, yes. 250 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,000 And you being willing and big enough to accept it. 251 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,000 That's great. Yeah. 252 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,000 Now, with your studying, did you study literature or? 253 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,000 I studied psychology. 254 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,000 Psychology. OK. 255 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,000 And creative writing. 256 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,000 So the creative writing. I was going to say, how did the writing? 257 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,000 Because my next question is, and topic I want to talk about, 258 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,000 you literally wrote the book on hostels. 259 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,000 And for all of us, and it's so cool to see at the conference, 260 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:12,000 when you have all these first-time hostel owners or people that are trying to open up, 261 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:16,000 just like we were when we were getting into the business at USA Hostels, 262 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,000 and you're like, well, there's got to be a book on this. 263 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,000 How do I become a good hostel manager? And yours was the only book. 264 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,000 We all bought it. We all read it. We all carried it around. 265 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,000 It fell apart and just beating it up and taking notes in it and everything. 266 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:31,000 So when did that come about? How did that project evolve? 267 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,000 Yeah. Well, I love doing research. 268 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:39,000 And so when I started this job without any experience, I just researched on the Internet. 269 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,000 And if someone else had written that book, I would have just bought it and read it. 270 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:43,000 Yeah, but no one had. 271 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:47,000 And years went by. And I thought, well, I've been doing this for six years now. 272 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,000 I'm just going to put all this together. 273 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:54,000 And it took a long time for all that to come together. 274 00:15:54,000 --> 00:16:01,000 But then I went to India for a month and I went and did all this different meditation, 275 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,000 went to different caves. I was there for a month. 276 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:09,000 And I realized as I watched, like I struggled writing this manuscript for the past two years, 277 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,000 and it was not coming along. 278 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:18,000 So I realized I really wanted to get it done. I needed structure. I needed to outline. 279 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:23,000 And instead of fighting against my natural inclinations, I just worked with them. 280 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:30,000 If I sat down to write when the muse inspired me, I would write 10 pages in two years. 281 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:35,000 It would take a long time. I can keep myself busy with tons of other things. 282 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,000 So I set up this structure and it took me two months. 283 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,000 I went to the public library every day at noon from 12 to 2. 284 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,000 And if I was a minute late, I stayed an extra 30 minutes. 285 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,000 And if I missed a day, I had to go in on Saturday. 286 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:52,000 I also realized, yeah, like working with my mind and the discipline of my mind, 287 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,000 and if I really wanted this project to happen, that's how it had to have been. 288 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:01,000 I clocked in just like I was working for someone else, but it was for myself. 289 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,000 You know, this integrity with myself and this goal. 290 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,000 And I didn't know if anyone was ever going to read it. 291 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,000 That's the other thing when you put so much time and effort into this thing where it's like, 292 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,000 does anyone care about this? You know? 293 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:17,000 And at the time, I had no feedback to say that anyone did. 294 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,000 And this is 10 years ago? 295 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,000 12 years. Wait. 296 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:22,000 When was the book published? 297 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,000 Oh, sorry, 2012. Yeah. 298 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,000 It was 2012. 299 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:27,000 Seven years ago. 300 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:28,000 Seven years ago. 301 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:33,000 Now, when you took the book idea to publishers, did you get just wild books? 302 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,000 Or was it easy to get the book published? Or how did that go? 303 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,000 So I worked with my business partner who had started Book Search. 304 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,000 Oh, what a perfect business partner. 305 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,000 So it was immediately published. 306 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,000 Okay, yeah. 307 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,000 And put on all platforms. 308 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,000 I didn't connect those dots there. Okay, that makes sense. 309 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,000 It's just a self-publishing platform, honestly. It wasn't anything special. 310 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,000 Anyone could have done that. 311 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,000 Oh, wow. 312 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,000 But yeah, it has grown from there. 313 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,000 And rumors of a second version coming out? 314 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,000 Second version is coming out, yes. 315 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,000 A release date? 316 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,000 This year. 317 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,000 Oh, my goodness. 318 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:11,000 This year. 319 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,000 I want to sign copies. Oh, my God. 320 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,000 I've learned so much in the past five years, I guess. 321 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,000 It's so much changed in the industry. 322 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,000 So much has changed, and with the conference, too. 323 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:28,000 I think I like a little bit more the personal touch, you know, the personal stories of the people that have come through. 324 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:32,000 I had that one chapter in the back of just like a night in that life. 325 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:40,000 But now that I've had a kid, life is different, and working in that constraint is different, too. 326 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:45,000 Well, we thank you for the first volume, and we're looking forward to the second edition. 327 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:53,000 We're going to take a quick break for our sponsorship, and then we'll get back and we'll talk real quick with Vicki about the Hostel Conference, 328 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:58,000 American Hostel Conference, the revival of it, and the momentum we have going forward. 329 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,000 Stay tuned. 330 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,000 We hope you're enjoying this episode of the Hostel Road Trip podcast. 331 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:09,000 We're taking a moment now to talk about a great service called Worldpackers.com. 332 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:14,000 Worldpackers.com is actually how I got my start with the Hostel Road Trip podcast. 333 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:21,000 Worldpackers is a great service that connects travelers looking for a place to stay in a new city with the hostels who need their skills. 334 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:27,000 You could do anything from house cleaning to reception to media and marketing and so much more. 335 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:33,000 With a reasonable fee of $50 a year and a little bit of courage, you could find yourself anywhere in the world. 336 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:39,000 For more information, just go find Grandpa Carlos surfing on the West Coast somewhere between California and Mexico. 337 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:44,000 If you're having trouble finding him this way, he might be taking a siesta on his surfboard. 338 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:50,000 If that's the case, scream to the heavens, Grandpa Carlos, we need you, and he'll be sure to answer the call. 339 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:59,000 But if all else fails, just check out Worldpackers.com. That's W-O-R-L-D-P-A-C-K-E-R-S dot com. 340 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,000 And now we bring you back to your regularly scheduled program. 341 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,000 Welcome back to the Hostel Road Trip podcast. 342 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:11,000 We are still here in Charleston, South Carolina with Vicki. 343 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:16,000 And we were just talking a bit about the American Hostel Conference, which we are at right now. 344 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:22,000 It's so exciting, as we were talking about earlier today, to have a collective gathering of some of the brightest minds in the industry, 345 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:27,000 as well as some of the newer players in the industry, all mixed together under one roof. 346 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:31,000 And everyone was giving you a bunch of kudos and pats on the back. 347 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:39,000 I'll give you another one now for reviving this idea that there is a need for the American Hostel industry to have a conference each year. 348 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,000 But how did you go about, similar to how we asked about how the book came about, 349 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,000 how did you come about to say, I'm going to do this for last year, for the first one? 350 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:54,000 Yeah. I spoke at the World Hostel Conference in 2010 in Brooklyn and 2011 in Vancouver. 351 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:59,000 And that was really inspirational. And I reached out to them, Hey, are you guys going to do any more conferences? 352 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,000 They were like, what happened? You know, because I really love that community and that connection. 353 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,000 And it was really exciting. 354 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,000 Why did they cancel it? 355 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,000 I don't know. I don't know. 356 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:12,000 But so then I waited a few years. And then it's kind of the same thing with the book. 357 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,000 It's like, well, if no one's going to do it, I guess I'm just going to do it then. 358 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,000 There you go again. You just grab the bull by the horns. 359 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:24,000 Yeah. I never planned a conference before. I mean, I just, I booked a venue and then I sent an email out. 360 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,000 That's literally, I just sent emails out. 361 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,000 Just feelers, yeah. 362 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:33,000 Yeah. And then like 45 people came last year. 363 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,000 It was so great though. 364 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,000 Up to like almost 60. 365 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,000 Yeah. And what I thought was really cool last year, 366 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,000 we had the benefit of going to the first one in, the second one this year. 367 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,000 But last year we kind of went on a conference tour. 368 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:49,000 We came here. We went to the Hostel World Conference in Dublin. 369 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,000 We went to the Hostel Skills Conference in Germany. 370 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,000 And all within the span of two weeks. 371 00:21:55,000 --> 00:22:00,000 So it was really cool to see the different formats and layouts. 372 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:07,000 And we enjoyed yours the most because we thought it had the greatest balance of relative information, 373 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:13,000 good conversation, good panel speakers, but also an intimate setting where you could all get to know each other. 374 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,000 It didn't have a corporate feel at all. 375 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:20,000 Some of the, you know, the Hostel World Conference, you see a lot of guys in three piece suits, you know, 376 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:25,000 as we were talking about today, talking about they have hundreds of millions of dollars and they're going to buy out the whole industry. 377 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,000 And you're just like, oh my God, what is this? 378 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,000 So it was really refreshing. 379 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:34,000 And as we were talking about it this year and everyone's asking us, why aren't you going to Dublin? 380 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,000 Why aren't you going to Germany? 381 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,000 We enjoyed this one the most. 382 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,000 Yeah. And we were like, we're going to stick to the American one because we're an American Hostel. 383 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,000 And we think it's important that this conference grows. 384 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,000 So once again, thank you for creating it and keeping it going. 385 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,000 What were some of the challenges you faced in starting it? 386 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,000 Well, besides that, it's a lot of work. 387 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,000 Oh, my God. Yeah. 388 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,000 Just a one woman show. Yeah, there is no corporate funding. 389 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,000 Yeah. 390 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,000 I'm really grateful to CloudBeds. They signed up as a sponsor both years. 391 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,000 And I guess I just I don't know. 392 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:16,000 I've always had this sense if I really put it out there that people will come and that it will be supported. 393 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,000 Just like I think there has to be that leap of faith. 394 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:25,000 It's kind of cliche, but it's like a little bit of like, I don't know if this is going to work and that's OK. 395 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,000 If you don't risk it, no biscuit. 396 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,000 That's right. Right. 397 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,000 You know, you got to think like that sometimes and just go for it. 398 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:37,000 Well, you know, and for listeners out there, you know, keep your eye on next year's conference for the third annual, 399 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:42,000 because what I've always said and I said earlier today when we were doing some of the speaking panels, 400 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:51,000 it's so cool to see aspiring hostile owners that have read your book, found you that way, now come to the conference. 401 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,000 They still haven't opened up their hostile. They don't even know where the building is. 402 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,000 But they're coming to collaborate and get ideas and brainstorm. 403 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:05,000 And then to see them this year at the second annual one, having opened their hostels successfully, really is a beautiful thing. 404 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:12,000 Yeah, it's definitely one of the best forums in America where you can meet hostile people, hostile owners and share ideas. 405 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,000 And then Charleston as a city, I think is perfect for it. 406 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,000 You know, it's really cool, cozy little city, very intimate. 407 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:25,000 And then having your hostile as a place to stay at, the networking just always goes on, you know, 408 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,000 even after the conference is over, we have the nice bonfires at night. 409 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:34,000 Everyone can relax and kind of let their hair down and get to know each other on a real level. 410 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,000 And then to see and hear how all of those relationships continue to go on after the conference. 411 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,000 You know, we stay in contact with each other. We visit each other's hostels. 412 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,000 And that's all because of you, because we all came here to meet here. 413 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:50,000 So that's really a cool thing that you create, you know, and it just goes and the energy goes. 414 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:59,000 So I think that, you know, you're really on to something here with the conference and really exciting to see how you continue to evolve it 415 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:04,000 and continue to help the industry grow because it really is needed. 416 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:10,000 Now, other question and a hot topic at this conference as well. 417 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,000 We talked about it last year at the conference, an association. 418 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:22,000 Everyone wants an American association, but we have this difficulty of everyone is also a hostile owner. 419 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:28,000 So we're all busy. You know, you know, you've got your radio station, you've got your book, you've got all kinds of things going on. 420 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:34,000 And it's difficult to run these things and put in the time and build the structure. 421 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:43,000 And I think it's interesting how we kind of as a industry find ourselves in this like gray area of who should do it, 422 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:48,000 how are we going to do it, how are we going to set it up, who's going to be responsible for it. 423 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,000 And what are your thoughts on that as of now? Yeah. 424 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,000 So last year we talked about Nata, which is why I was excited. Yeah. 425 00:25:55,000 --> 00:26:03,000 National Association. I wanted to be the Southwest chapter president of hostels in America. 426 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:09,000 And we had a call and it's just yeah, it's just difficult to add work to people's plates. 427 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:16,000 You know, and I run this nonprofit here, the radio station. So I know how difficult it is to run a nonprofit. 428 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:21,000 And so I just I just I'm not sure it just hasn't happened yet. 429 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,000 It's kind of it's like a seedling. It's still under the ground. Yeah. 430 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:31,000 But my vision for it really is that there's an environmental aspect to it. Oh, yeah. 431 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,000 Because there there is you know, there's Hosteling International. Yep. 432 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:41,000 And there's there are associations and there might be more. I just and they're all inclusive, which is great on some level. 433 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:49,000 But that's not really my vision. My vision is like, what is this hostile doing to make to make the world a better place? 434 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:56,000 Like all hostels contribute in some way from the social aspect and cultural connections and breaking down barriers. 435 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,000 But what is this hostile doing for the land that it sits on? 436 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:05,000 You know, that is in business like I'm really interested in triple bottom line. Yeah. Yeah. 437 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:10,000 It's like so that is kind of my vision of this hostile. 438 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:21,000 You know, if you see the Nata symbols like this hostile has done significant consideration for the land that it sits on and not just it's not just cool. 439 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,000 It's not just like creating a place for people. It's like one step further. Yeah. 440 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:30,000 And it's not having as much of a negative impact on the environment. Yeah, I love it. 441 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:35,000 I went to school at University of San Diego and they used to preach conscious capitalism. Yeah. 442 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:42,000 And that was a really cool thing that stuck with me in the way of like, make sure you're doing what's right, not what's profitable. Yeah. 443 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:53,000 Oh, you know, in that if that can come before the profitable and you can work that into your culture, then I think you can have a profound impact on your operation. 444 00:27:53,000 --> 00:28:05,000 Regardless of how this association element evolves, as I keep on saying, whenever someone asks me if I'm going to join their association or if I would join their association, I always ask, are you on it? 445 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:22,000 Because if you're not, I'm concerned. And I think that you need to be, if not the key player, at least on the in some type of advisory board capacity, because as I was calling some of you earlier today, hostile OGs, you know, the original gangsters of the industry. 446 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:35,000 I think it's so important that you and a Darren over being the people that have really been doing this for a while and have established the industry well before the struggles that we all go through, which would have been significantly harder if you all weren't there. 447 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:51,000 We didn't have the books to read or hostile management.com to go to. I think it's important that that base is included, at least an advisory board because would be missing out on so much intellectual property, if you will, that you guys have. 448 00:28:51,000 --> 00:29:00,000 You guys have had an experience, so I hope that we can get an association in place, but I think it is an absolute necessity that you're involved. 449 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:07,000 So let's continue to work on that one. Now, to talk a little bit about the hostile. 450 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:18,000 How did it get its name. Actually Claire Cunningham the original. Yeah, what does it mean? Not so hostile. I think it, it touches upon the stigma of hostels. 451 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:25,000 I think it's going to be like this is not what you think it's going to be. Okay, it's going to be a lot better. No, it's going to be clean. It's going to be beautiful. It's going to be comfortable. 452 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:34,000 You're actually going to sit down with people from five different countries around the breakfast table and have coffee with them. And it's going to just be you can feel the vibes. Yeah. 453 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,000 When you walk on the property, it's got a great thing. 454 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:48,000 It's got a great way to it, the flow of it and the energy of the buildings. And I think you've done a great job. And we were talking about earlier today. Of course, everyone would love to build to sue and have the one massive commercial kitchen. 455 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:56,000 But you know, you've got your situation where you've got a couple of small kitchens. Yeah, I've got five. You've made it work so well that it flows well together. 456 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:10,000 And I think that's a, you know, a pat on the back for you and how you can create that within the space you have now when it was taken over by you from the prior operator. Did you make any drastic changes? Oh, yeah. 457 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:15,000 So there were some significant operational changes. Tell us about that. Well, there were no systems. 458 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:28,000 They took the keys and they threw them under the office door. That's how they checked out. And yeah, there was just no no systems. It was incredible. Nature systems. Yeah. So I got lots of systems. 459 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:46,000 I also threw everything away that was in the hostel, just like all the furniture, all the catches, everything in the lobby, repainted everything, redid all the floors, redid the ceilings. Just those are some big major ones. It was kind of a I'll do this if I can if I can totally renovate it. 460 00:30:46,000 --> 00:31:01,000 I'm not going to take over, man. I'm not going to run a hostel with like dingy broken yellow tiles on the floor. Just like they're never going to look clean. I need to renovate this whole thing. So not total renovation. Not like what Heather did at Black Elephant. Not like that. 461 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:10,000 It was just it was one year I did the floors, one year I painted everything. But when I first got there, I threw everything away. That's for sure. 462 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:22,000 You just got to get a little better each day. Paint one more day or something. Yeah. And yeah, I liked how you talked about with your business partner in one of the presentations that you have your facility fund or capital fund and each year you prioritize. 463 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:34,000 And you work on each year and I think people can get overwhelmed and in over their heads if they try to do everything at once. Yeah. And you really do have to take a look at it like what can I realistically do? What's most important? Let's do that. 464 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:47,000 Now, you're operated and took over the not so but then eventually you opened up an annex down the street, which is mostly private rooms, right? It's all private rooms. And how far away is it from the original location? Five blocks. Okay. 465 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:58,000 So within the wheelhouse here and that increased your occupancy. But we were also talking about the sweet spot earlier today. Yeah. And you were just mentioning the Dunn. Dunn bar's number. Dunn bar's number. 466 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:15,000 And I think that's a great analysis there because we were talking about that. And for listeners out there, if you're doing well and you feel like your hostels got this awesome energy and it runs super great and everything's clicking, there is a number that you will cross that you'll lose that. 467 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:30,000 It tells more about this Dunn bar. Well, specifically this Dunn bar's number. It's it's a suggested limit to the number of people with who you can have a stable social relationship with. So some companies and corporations won't hire, for example, more than 150 people. 468 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:46,000 Let's just say this is our capacity or it's estimated it's between 100 and 200. Okay. So they just kind of generalize it around 150. But it's that the Robyn Dunbar found this correlation between the primate brain size and the average social group size. 469 00:32:46,000 --> 00:33:02,000 And so that you can comfortably maintain 150 stable relationships. And so I think what you were talking about the sweet spot, I love having 50 people at night. You know, it's a lot. 470 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:21,000 It's also enough to be like, how was the beach trip yesterday? Hey, did you find your laundry? Like to have those relationships and then the next day do it all over again. Yeah. Where I've been in some really big hostels and it's as soon as it gets into feeling like a hotel, then it feels less natural to be like, hey, what did you do yesterday? 471 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:39,000 Because the environment I was talking so much about design is so important. I can't remember who said it, but like we design buildings or and then the buildings design. Yeah, it's like we're so close both ways. Yeah, we're so highly influenced by design and good design. 472 00:33:39,000 --> 00:34:08,000 So beautiful. You know when you see it and you know when you feel it. But the layout of the hostels just that we we kept the original house structure from the 1800s. And so there's a lot of private spaces. So it honors both like which is kind of what's happening now. You can you can have your little kitchen and then you can go to the big kitchen and interact or you can go to your private room or you can hang out in the lobby on the porch. Yeah, like you said, it happens naturally. Like even if you're the manager, the owner and you're the host, you can't do it. 473 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:35,000 I feel like the guests just act differently if there's more people around you know versus if they're 50 people are just more comfortable. But if you have 125 or 150 bed hostile, the guests just for some reason naturally just are a little more standoffish and more private, not as makes people more introverted. It's amazing. And even as a backpacker on the other side, but now when I look for hostels, I prefer the smaller ones. Yeah, I want to go to a 50 better less hostile. Yeah, I think that's a good point. 474 00:34:35,000 --> 00:35:05,000 I prefer the smaller ones. Yeah, I want to go to a 50 better less hostile because I know the experience is going to be like a hostile and I'm going to feel the owner's character in the hostile. I'm probably going to meet the owner. I'm going to be able to have a conversation with them. And then from the operating standpoint, we have our little Italy location we were talking about earlier today. It started at 18 beds and it was the most Bohemian little you knew everyone's name and you knew where they were going and you felt like you could smother everyone with customer service. And then it got to 50 and you still feel the same and then it crossed 100 and I was like, this isn't the same. 475 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:17,000 And now it gets closer to 150 and none of the original systems work. You know, all the original operations you got to throw out. You also need you need night instead of having one washer. You need three washes. 476 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:33,000 Yeah, you're just a multiple. It's so scaled up. You really got a whole redesign your whole facility. And I feel like as an operator, when I'm in that location, I change. I become more introverted. I become more overwhelmed. I don't know the people as well as I used to. 477 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:46,000 I feel like not part of the operation, but I feel at that moment is like the only time I feel like I'm an owner that's distant and detached. And I feel like those guests look at me like that too. 478 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:57,000 Whereas in the smaller operations that we have, you walk in and you get hugs. You know everyone's name and you check them in. So there it's a really defining difference. 479 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:07,000 And I think that when you see these big hostels with three, four hundred beds and they're all fired up, it's not hostile. You know, I mean, it's almost like a cattle barn and you're just like pushing people through. 480 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:20,000 I think it's because you see maybe you see people like, oh, I just saw that person. Yeah, I saw that person again. I saw that person 10 times today. Now I feel like now I could be like, hey, what are you doing? 481 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:33,000 And I think that's what's really going to make what makes hostels special and what's really going to keep us so unique as the years go on and we progress compared to like the newer hotels that are building more social areas. 482 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:45,000 You know, those hotels, they need to have 150 rooms to cover this hundred million dollar project that they created. You know, where the hostels, I think the great hostels are going to stay around that 50 beds so you can provide that intimate experience. 483 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:53,000 Meet the host, meet the owner. And we were meeting guys at the Hostel World Conference last year, the three piece suit guys, you know, and they were like, oh, we've looked up your operation. 484 00:36:53,000 --> 00:37:01,000 Like, why would you ever open up a bed, a hostel with less than 200 beds? That makes no sense. We're looking at them like what you're opening is not a hostile. 485 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:07,000 You know, you're just looking at it from such a margin perspective, pushing people through and they're not thinking about the experience. 486 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:16,000 And I find it so interesting how they'll say, why would you open up a hostel less than 200 beds? And how do you have that special sauce? I'm like, your two questions just answer each other. 487 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:32,000 You know, like, and you can't figure that out. And that's something we talked about today in the conference of the podcast project we're doing here is to preserve and highlight all these genuine authentic hostels that you can feel the character of the owner in the walls and the blood, sweat and tears. 488 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:43,000 And that's what we're really going to try to do going forward is to continue to highlight those operations. And we find it interesting that a lot of those larger operations in season one and season two didn't want to participate. 489 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:50,000 They were like, that's probably better off because this isn't for them. Yeah. So we're going to take one more quick break here. 490 00:37:50,000 --> 00:38:00,000 And when we get back, we're going to talk with Vicki about the perfect day in Charleston and what the experience at her hostel is from the backpacker perspective. Stay tuned. 491 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:17,000 Thanks again for listening to the hostile road trip podcast with us. We want to take a second to talk about one of our sponsors that keeps the road trip alive. That is the International Travelers House hostels located in San Diego at three locations, Big Bear Lake and Newport, Rhode Island. 492 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:32,000 International Travelers House provides a unique experience at each one of their locations with great staff, great food and tons of connections to the local community so that you can have a great time vacationing, traveling through or staying for a while. 493 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:46,000 If you want more information on ITH, check out ithhostels.com to check out videos, pictures, blogs and direct booking to our locations. Thank you again for listening. We hope you enjoy the conclusion of this episode. 494 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:59,000 Welcome back to Hostel Road Trip podcast. We are closing out first episode of season three, Southeastern US. We are here in Charleston, South Carolina with the godmother of hostels, Ms. Vicki. 495 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:08,000 And we are closing out with talking a bit about your awesome hostel as we could sit here and talk with you about you forever. But let's talk a little bit about the facility. 496 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:17,000 So you broke it down how we have the main house, we have the annex. But tell us a bit about Charleston. What is a backpacker experience like here? 497 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:31,000 Yeah, it's a beautiful city to explore. I find that if you build your hostel, people come to explore it. Yeah. And so like other surrounding cities that don't have hostels, I find that backpackers will just pass it by even if it is an incredible city. 498 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:41,000 Yeah. But we're lucky that we have a place for backpackers and that you can walk everywhere. It's a walking city. I love that. It is. And it's so beautiful. 499 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:56,000 And what is perfect about Charleston is that they have really preserved the historic charm and character of it. So if I wanted to paint my house white, which is currently white, I'd have to go down and apply for a permit to paint it the same color it is. 500 00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:11,000 It's like it's very considered. And you see that in in this city. And it's very different from other cities where zoning is a little bit more flexible or you can just do whatever you want. There aren't like in Houston, there is no zoning. So it's so interesting. 501 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:20,000 Preserves it so well. Yeah, people just knock down these old houses that are commonly great for hostels with high ceilings and big rooms. 502 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:31,000 And we operate out of a lot of historical homes in San Diego. And the Historical Society loves us because when we go and say like, hey, we want to not touch this. We want to preserve this building. We want to use it in its format. 503 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:45,000 Yeah. When they usually have developers that are like at very best. Can I pick it up and move it somewhere so I can build some monstrosity here? Yeah. So I think that's spot on with how you have a great walking city that's kept its like original form to it. 504 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:58,000 But I noticed as we were driving over here, this is a coastal city. What is it like in the summertime with like the beach and the coastline? What goes on there? Yeah. So we're nine miles from the beach from Folly Beach. 505 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:12,000 And it is hot in the summer, but I love it. Yeah, it's hot and humid, but it's incredible weather. I mean, the beaches are sandy and beautiful. And yeah, it's just an incredible city. Is it a big sailing town? 506 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:22,000 Yeah, a lot of sailing reminds me of Newport, Rhode Island. That's where I'm from. So that colonial feel and the coastal town like a city by the sea. 507 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:33,000 I also find like what we're talking about earlier about Dunbar's number and growth. It's a peninsula city. So just like San Francisco, just like Manhattan, it's not going to get any bigger. 508 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:45,000 And so they have really worked hard to preserve what is here. And so that now, I mean, recently that they could build buildings a little bit higher than a church steeple. But until like a year ago, you couldn't. 509 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:58,000 So when you walk down King Street, it's approachable. It's small. It's comfortable. It's it's just heralds to a different time when money wasn't the most important. Very true. Maybe less materialistic. 510 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:10,000 Or it's just it was considered differently, like the ornate architecture and time they took. Yeah. And it was just it was it was very well considered and preserved. 511 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:19,000 It's an interesting comparison because we're talking about a lot today in the podcast, in the conference, the large cookie cutter size hostel where it's more like a motel six. 512 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:24,000 And they're just putting in boxes and rooms and they're all the same. Right. No matter what city you're in, they're all the same. 513 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:33,000 I think that's really cool in the construction here in the city. They've preserved it. And you can see the effort in the detail craftsmanship that used to go in when a guy would build a house. 514 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:39,000 He was so proud of. This is John Bolton's house. I built this house with my son's. It's just perfect. 515 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:46,000 Well, for example, if you go to the annex, the porch is severely slanted or at the main location, the middle house on the top floor, it's slanted. 516 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:57,000 So we'll get reviews like this house is falling down. No, we can't fix that if we wanted to. The city is like that is a historical part of this structure and you can't change it. 517 00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:01,000 So I don't know if you guys have been upstairs, but the porch is like this. I thought I just drank too much. 518 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:14,000 No, it's an intense slant. And it's just like something is kept, I guess, when that charm, it just goes back to a different period, different way of thinking, different way of living, 519 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:25,000 because now it's harder to get that unique experience. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And for potential operators out there, always look to historical homes in your city as a great option to explore for opening up a hostel, 520 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:32,000 because a lot of people don't know what to do with these spaces. Yeah. A lot of people can't change the spaces, but you can revive these spaces. Right. 521 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:39,000 And so for people coming in Charleston, the touristy thing, I guess we like go down to the market, but we tell people to go the opposite direction. 522 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:44,000 Like go to Hampton Park, you know, go see where they used to be a racetrack where they used to have the World's Fair. 523 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:53,000 I mean, what can you do in a park? Just just sit and enjoy the park. Take a moment. Take a moment. Go to the park cafe, which is right next to it's like where if you lived here, where would you go to eat? 524 00:43:53,000 --> 00:44:01,000 Yeah. If you lived here, where would you go hang out? It's like I'm not going down to the market, you know, or the angel oak tree, which you all should definitely go see. 525 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:10,000 It's one of the oldest trees in the southeast. It's just been beautifully preserved. It's free to go to the the root structure is bigger than this room. 526 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:18,000 I mean, it is those southern oaks. Is that what it's like? Isn't it a different oak tree? A southern oak? Is that true? Generally, I mean, oak trees generally. Yeah, there's different kind of oak. 527 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:27,000 I always don't remember a southern oak was like the strongest wood. Yeah, yeah, big. It's big and beautiful. I think it's twelve hundred years old. It's like incredible. 528 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:36,000 So just to go there and be in its presence and that how hard the city has worked to preserve it, to prevent development from coming around it. Yeah. 529 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:43,000 Yeah. And just to walk around and see what it's like to walk around with the brick that has been there for hundreds of years. 530 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:51,000 And you're right off of King Street, which is the main strip, right? And it's a young college town. You know, you've got a lot of vibrant things going on. 531 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:59,000 So I think that's also something we've learned in our past two visits here for the conferences is just once you get here, you know, throw on the shoes and you can walk around anywhere. 532 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:06,000 And it's a fun city to walk around. It's enjoyable to look at the architecture and all those things. I got one last question about the architecture. 533 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:15,000 What's up with the porches with the door that then open behind it? So it used to be that you were taxed based on your like number of windows you had facing the street. 534 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:21,000 Oh, and then also it had to do because there wasn't any air conditioning. I guess the wind came in differently from this side. 535 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:26,000 So you could have this huge house, but on the front of the street, you'd have four windows. I got you. Yeah. 536 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:32,000 Instead of your house being long way this way. Yeah. Yeah. The construction. And then you could also catch the sea breeze. 537 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:38,000 OK, that's awesome. Yeah. Well, backpackers out there. 538 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:45,000 This is a hot spot to come check out and still is this South Carolina's only hostile still to this day? Yeah. 539 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:49,000 Well, you are representing it well, solely by yourself. 540 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:57,000 But make sure to put the not so hostile on your agenda to come check out whether you're a backpacker or a hostile operator. 541 00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:05,000 It's definitely a can't miss. And stay tuned for upcoming news on the third American Hostile Conference next year. 542 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:19,000 It's getting better every year. And we just want to thank you once again, Vicki, for putting on this conference, writing your book and inspiring all of us here at this table and behind us at this conference to take that leap of faith and to do it. 543 00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:25,000 You've got so much good karma coming your way for that. Thank you. All right. Thank you guys. Thanks for doing what you do to us. 544 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:36,000 Thanks for having us. Yeah. All right. Well, I'm Jimmy Black. I'm with Bobby Dyer. It's great episode. And Vicki Mattis and we are closing out episode one. We hit the road on Thursday. 545 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:59,000 We'll be going to North Carolina and Tennessee and recording episodes there. And you'll find those on SoundCloud and iTunes. Thanks so much.