WEBVTT 00:00:00.110 --> 00:00:03.049 Welcome back to the Light Keepers podcast, an 00:00:03.049 --> 00:00:05.490 exclusive production of A Guiding Light, our 00:00:05.490 --> 00:00:07.870 nonprofit charity dedicated to the idea that 00:00:07.870 --> 00:00:10.890 knowledge is power and good information leads 00:00:10.890 --> 00:00:13.849 to a better life. I'm Clayton Vandiver, your 00:00:13.849 --> 00:00:16.829 Light Keeper, with my co -host, as always, Charlene, 00:00:16.910 --> 00:00:19.789 our licensed clinical social worker certified 00:00:19.789 --> 00:00:22.870 in the state of Florida. This show is dedicated 00:00:22.870 --> 00:00:25.010 to everyone who wants to get the most quality 00:00:25.010 --> 00:00:28.530 out of life that they can. Join us for the conversation 00:00:28.530 --> 00:00:33.420 this week. Part two of The Odd Couple, when the 00:00:33.420 --> 00:00:38.460 family members just can't quite agree on their 00:00:38.460 --> 00:00:44.320 plan of action. And so much more on this week's 00:00:44.320 --> 00:01:12.290 edition of the Light Keepers Podcast. Please 00:01:12.290 --> 00:01:14.250 leave your questions or comments below and join 00:01:14.250 --> 00:01:17.030 our conversation. Questions are answered during 00:01:17.030 --> 00:01:20.469 our next show online each Wednesday evening at 00:01:20.469 --> 00:01:23.209 7 p .m. Eastern. The Light Keepers podcast is 00:01:23.209 --> 00:01:26.430 an exclusive production of A Guiding Light Incorporated. 00:01:26.629 --> 00:01:30.730 And tonight it is a continuation. We're actually 00:01:30.730 --> 00:01:33.930 just continuing to tape this because it was so 00:01:33.930 --> 00:01:36.069 much. We wanted to squeeze a little bit more 00:01:36.069 --> 00:01:38.629 into that show last week that was getting too 00:01:38.629 --> 00:01:42.659 long. We decided to just continue right on with 00:01:42.659 --> 00:01:47.879 the conversation and talk about a few of the 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:50.060 things that we didn't quite have time to get 00:01:50.060 --> 00:01:52.959 into. Now, what was our show about last week, 00:01:53.099 --> 00:01:57.799 The Odd Couple? So The Odd Couple is, I was telling 00:01:57.799 --> 00:02:00.120 a story about a couple that I met with recently 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:10.080 to talk about their advanced directives. had 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:12.620 opted for a do not resuscitate order. They no 00:02:12.620 --> 00:02:15.099 longer wanted to be resuscitated if their heart 00:02:15.099 --> 00:02:17.719 stopped. And this was a surprise to the spouse. 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:21.240 This was a surprise to the spouse. Okay. Because 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:24.360 it might have been a recent change of heart, 00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:28.219 a change of mind, inspired by recent medical 00:02:28.219 --> 00:02:31.719 events in their family. Change of heart literally. 00:02:33.020 --> 00:02:40.509 That can happen. So the one question that I didn't 00:02:40.509 --> 00:02:43.629 ask in the last show, and should have, good follow 00:02:43.629 --> 00:02:46.909 -up question, so what do you do then as a counselor? 00:02:47.310 --> 00:02:50.490 If they don't agree, they don't have a way to 00:02:50.490 --> 00:02:53.129 figure this out. I know at the time you mentioned 00:02:53.129 --> 00:02:57.889 that they had to step back and take a moment. 00:02:58.030 --> 00:03:00.430 And you even offered to call them back, I think, 00:03:00.449 --> 00:03:06.840 later. Yeah. And understand that... When a professional 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:12.419 counselor speaks with patients, you know, sometimes 00:03:12.419 --> 00:03:16.620 it's shared little very generic details, no details 00:03:16.620 --> 00:03:19.500 at all, very generic information about that call 00:03:19.500 --> 00:03:22.500 is shared with me or I'm sure with other spouses, 00:03:22.659 --> 00:03:26.860 but no specific identifying information. That 00:03:26.860 --> 00:03:28.819 HIPAA protection, and I have to mention this 00:03:28.819 --> 00:03:31.939 right off the bat, that HIPAA protection is crucial. 00:03:32.139 --> 00:03:36.120 It's not only legal. it's critical to the counselor 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:40.139 -patient relationship that none of their information, 00:03:40.300 --> 00:03:42.060 it's not going to be shared on this show and 00:03:42.060 --> 00:03:46.439 it's not going to be shared to me. But she did 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:50.060 mention afterwards that she had to have them 00:03:50.060 --> 00:03:53.960 step back and sort of give them a moment to think 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:57.819 about it, I guess. Correct. So sometimes as a 00:03:57.819 --> 00:04:03.219 therapist, the... The meeting can be difficult, 00:04:03.379 --> 00:04:06.199 not just for the people that are there for counseling, 00:04:06.340 --> 00:04:09.099 but for the therapist as well. Nobody enjoys 00:04:09.099 --> 00:04:11.879 confrontation, but in the therapeutic process, 00:04:11.979 --> 00:04:14.139 there is a time and a place where confrontation 00:04:14.139 --> 00:04:17.139 can be beneficial. Sometimes it's just bound 00:04:17.139 --> 00:04:23.540 to happen. That is very true. And yes, sometimes 00:04:23.540 --> 00:04:27.800 I use those experiences for the benefit of others 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:31.350 by sharing. a little bit about that without ever 00:04:31.350 --> 00:04:33.910 sharing enough information that the person could 00:04:33.910 --> 00:04:36.949 be identified. Right. I mean, I don't know who 00:04:36.949 --> 00:04:38.910 these people are. I don't know their names. I 00:04:38.910 --> 00:04:40.490 don't even know what part of the country they're 00:04:40.490 --> 00:04:42.829 in or even if they're in this country. I don't 00:04:42.829 --> 00:04:45.290 know what scope and scale. And I'm not going 00:04:45.290 --> 00:04:48.930 to tell you. counseling carries i know it's it's 00:04:48.930 --> 00:04:52.550 broad uh it's a very broad uh scale and scope 00:04:52.550 --> 00:04:54.829 and geographic coverage when you think about 00:04:54.829 --> 00:04:58.449 what we do um we talk with people all the time 00:04:58.449 --> 00:05:01.790 in person over the phone over the computer and 00:05:01.790 --> 00:05:06.069 there's i mean it could be anybody anytime anywhere 00:05:06.069 --> 00:05:08.980 it could It could be a family member for all 00:05:08.980 --> 00:05:10.800 anybody knows. And I would never know that. Because 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:13.480 God knows we've had these situations within our 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:16.540 own families. Right. I would never know that. 00:05:16.600 --> 00:05:20.699 But the thing is, is sometimes the person that 00:05:20.699 --> 00:05:25.240 you depend on the most to carry out your wishes 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:28.779 doesn't agree with them. Yeah. And when that 00:05:28.779 --> 00:05:32.600 happens, you have to have a very honest conversation 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:36.769 because guess what? If they're not going to carry 00:05:36.769 --> 00:05:38.889 out your wishes, it doesn't matter if that's 00:05:38.889 --> 00:05:41.370 mom, dad, wife, husband, brother, sister, niece, 00:05:41.470 --> 00:05:44.250 nephew, uncle, cousin, doesn't matter. If they're 00:05:44.250 --> 00:05:46.029 not going to carry out your wishes, they need 00:05:46.029 --> 00:05:49.110 to not be your medical power of attorney. Well, 00:05:49.149 --> 00:05:51.449 they have to be on the same page with you. And 00:05:51.449 --> 00:05:53.490 at the moment that you discovered that page, 00:05:53.790 --> 00:05:56.189 those were two different pages that you were 00:05:56.189 --> 00:05:58.009 reading. And that's a great way to put it. If 00:05:58.009 --> 00:06:00.310 they're not on the same page, they need to not 00:06:00.310 --> 00:06:02.620 be on the paper. Oh, they need to not be reading 00:06:02.620 --> 00:06:05.699 that book. Yeah. Yeah. Not in the book. And these 00:06:05.699 --> 00:06:08.860 were on two different pages. And as soon as you 00:06:08.860 --> 00:06:10.860 realized that, you had to step away from the 00:06:10.860 --> 00:06:13.839 book and say, you know, let's give you guys a 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:17.120 moment to think about this, which was shared 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:20.519 with me later only as one of those generic, very 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:25.100 general moments of my workday that, you know, 00:06:25.100 --> 00:06:27.079 this was really challenging and something unique 00:06:27.079 --> 00:06:28.939 that I haven't experienced before, I think is 00:06:28.939 --> 00:06:31.600 what you said. They came up to this question 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:33.180 and they said, well, I'm sure this is what he 00:06:33.180 --> 00:06:34.680 wants too on his because this is what I want 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:36.319 on mine. And he says, no, actually, I'd like 00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:38.879 that different. And it is something that I had 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:41.980 encountered before, but never without the other 00:06:41.980 --> 00:06:44.480 person knowing. This was the first time that 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:47.939 it got sprung on the spouse in the moment. Okay. 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:52.720 Which I appreciated so much. It made for an interesting 00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:55.839 dynamic. It did. And the reason for sharing it 00:06:55.839 --> 00:06:58.000 later, you know, not just, wow, I really had 00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:00.839 an interesting work day. It opened a conversation 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:04.600 for us to have about, well, how would you, when 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:06.839 do you think that might change? When do you think 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:09.600 you might have a change of heart? And would you 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:13.060 tell me? Would you share with me ahead of time? 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:15.360 It's important for us to be on the same page. 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:18.199 Yeah, and I think I would have. I believe my 00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:20.709 answer at the time was, You mean that's even 00:07:20.709 --> 00:07:23.610 an option? Of course I want resuscitate. I want 00:07:23.610 --> 00:07:27.470 every minute I can possibly have. Which prompted 00:07:27.470 --> 00:07:31.170 the next question you asked me. Circumstances. 00:07:31.750 --> 00:07:35.189 What if? Oh yeah, it was what if, well what if 00:07:35.189 --> 00:07:38.709 your quality of life sucked at that point? Right. 00:07:39.129 --> 00:07:41.350 And quality of life is... Well how bad was my 00:07:41.350 --> 00:07:43.370 quality of life? I would have to have that... 00:07:43.899 --> 00:07:46.180 I'm a person who has to have the terms defined. 00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:49.199 And that's the key thing because quality of life 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:52.459 is so subjective. Your quality of life, come 00:07:52.459 --> 00:07:54.500 to find out based on that conversation, your 00:07:54.500 --> 00:07:56.759 quality of life is very different from my quality 00:07:56.759 --> 00:08:00.199 of life. We have very different definitions of... 00:08:00.540 --> 00:08:03.459 what we find acceptable. Well, one person might 00:08:03.459 --> 00:08:05.759 be willing to let go while the other person, 00:08:05.819 --> 00:08:07.899 you know, because they don't want to be a burden 00:08:07.899 --> 00:08:11.019 on their family and their children. Another person 00:08:11.019 --> 00:08:13.300 might want to say, no, I'm kind of greedy with 00:08:13.300 --> 00:08:15.699 life. I want as much as I can get, even if I'm 00:08:15.699 --> 00:08:20.120 bedridden, even if somebody has to feed me. I 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:23.199 don't know. And then halfway through that process, 00:08:23.339 --> 00:08:25.800 you can still, because we're all dynamic individuals, 00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:28.300 you can still have a change of heart and say, 00:08:28.379 --> 00:08:30.699 you know, this feeding me thing, it really is 00:08:30.699 --> 00:08:35.480 awful. And I can see the stress and the strain 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:38.220 and the burden it's putting on my family. Is 00:08:38.220 --> 00:08:40.879 it too late to change my mind about that? And 00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:42.799 it's never too late. As long as you're capable 00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:45.120 of making that decision, then you can always 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:48.299 change your wishes. But the thing is, you have 00:08:48.299 --> 00:08:50.820 to have that talk with the person that you have 00:08:50.820 --> 00:08:54.940 chosen as your medical decision maker. And you 00:08:54.940 --> 00:08:58.559 have to be confident that they're going to follow 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:00.700 through with what you have decided. Because let 00:09:00.700 --> 00:09:02.500 me tell you something else that I have seen. 00:09:03.899 --> 00:09:08.179 When I was working in the hospital, I have seen 00:09:08.179 --> 00:09:12.539 multiple occasions. where we had advance directives 00:09:12.539 --> 00:09:17.379 in writing, and we had families that didn't agree 00:09:17.379 --> 00:09:21.759 with them. And let me tell you something. If 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:25.539 you have a doctor who is more concerned about 00:09:25.539 --> 00:09:29.220 getting sued than they are about honoring your 00:09:29.220 --> 00:09:36.059 wishes, guess what's going to happen? Yep. Oh, 00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:42.470 my. There is a dynamic there that is very important 00:09:42.470 --> 00:09:48.389 to consider. And those wishes are law, the advance 00:09:48.389 --> 00:09:51.269 directives, even the simple five wishes. The 00:09:51.269 --> 00:09:56.549 five wishes document is legally binding in 46 00:09:56.549 --> 00:10:00.799 states. And I'm sure the other four states have 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:05.580 documents of their own that carry the same legal 00:10:05.580 --> 00:10:08.700 binding. It is a legally binding document. However, 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:15.980 just like any other document, and I'm going to 00:10:15.980 --> 00:10:19.460 pull out some wonderful examples here, just like 00:10:19.460 --> 00:10:21.980 any other legally binding document, it is open 00:10:21.980 --> 00:10:24.679 to interpretation. And you would think it would 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:27.970 be ironclad because it's so specific. Folks, 00:10:28.070 --> 00:10:31.490 our Constitution's pretty specific too, but it's 00:10:31.490 --> 00:10:33.990 interpreted 20 million different ways every day. 00:10:35.629 --> 00:10:41.429 This is true, and while all of these are generally 00:10:41.429 --> 00:10:45.230 upheld, as we all kind of know what they mean, 00:10:45.409 --> 00:10:48.850 everyone has their own desire of what they'd 00:10:48.850 --> 00:10:51.210 like it to mean. And that's what it comes down 00:10:51.210 --> 00:10:54.370 to, the nuances. The nuances. The nuances. So 00:10:54.370 --> 00:11:00.740 if you have... Person A who says they do not 00:11:00.740 --> 00:11:04.080 want life support if they have no quality of 00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:12.639 life. And that person needs life support. And 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:15.399 you have person B who is making their decisions. 00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:20.559 And person B says, well... I would be okay if 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:23.000 I was bed -bound with a feeding tube and needed 00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:25.899 a ventilator 24 -7 because to me the most important 00:11:25.899 --> 00:11:28.259 thing is being alive. I don't care in what condition. 00:11:29.259 --> 00:11:33.000 Therefore, to me, that's a decent quality of 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:36.840 life, so keep them alive. Not bothering to think 00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:40.659 that person A, their definition of quality of 00:11:40.659 --> 00:11:45.059 life might have been, if I can't take care of 00:11:45.059 --> 00:11:52.009 myself, I don't want to be here. Those are, wow, 00:11:52.289 --> 00:11:55.730 that's a heavy conversation and a hard thing 00:11:55.730 --> 00:11:58.470 to decide, even for yourself. Because again, 00:11:58.590 --> 00:12:00.210 as we were saying a minute ago, the dynamics 00:12:00.210 --> 00:12:04.370 of it are your mind can change, your thoughts 00:12:04.370 --> 00:12:08.509 can change as life events happen. And as medical 00:12:08.509 --> 00:12:11.509 circumstances are experienced, it can make you 00:12:11.509 --> 00:12:13.830 revisit these thoughts and change how you feel 00:12:13.830 --> 00:12:17.230 about them. And perhaps even just... opening 00:12:17.230 --> 00:12:20.450 that conversation with a loved one can alter 00:12:20.450 --> 00:12:23.750 your perspective by putting yourself in their 00:12:23.750 --> 00:12:26.850 shoes and realizing how your decision might affect 00:12:26.850 --> 00:12:30.230 them and their lives. And there's so much that 00:12:30.230 --> 00:12:33.309 goes into those decisions. There's not just the 00:12:33.309 --> 00:12:41.230 emotional aspect. There's also the dynamics of 00:12:41.230 --> 00:12:45.360 treatment that's involved. You know, if you have 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:50.639 someone who has cancer, for example, and they 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:53.919 don't want treatment, they don't want to do the 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:55.980 chemo, they don't want to do the radiation, they 00:12:55.980 --> 00:12:58.919 don't want to do any of that, then the first 00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:04.259 thing they're going to hear from people closest 00:13:04.259 --> 00:13:08.960 to them, I would bet money because I've heard 00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:14.419 it said, why are you giving up? Why are you giving 00:13:14.419 --> 00:13:21.059 up? Yes. And cancer is not, that's a topic for 00:13:21.059 --> 00:13:22.580 another show we're going to have to do. Yeah, 00:13:22.580 --> 00:13:23.639 that's a whole show we can do about cancer. Because 00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:26.840 cancer is not a battle to be won. It's not a 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:29.000 fight. And you hear that all the time. Oh, well, 00:13:29.139 --> 00:13:31.440 you know, they lost their battle with cancer. 00:13:31.580 --> 00:13:34.500 They lost their fight. You know, we need to donate 00:13:34.500 --> 00:13:38.460 so they can keep fighting. Cancer is not a fight. 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:41.720 It is no different than any other diagnosis. 00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:47.299 That can affect the body, requires treatment. 00:13:47.580 --> 00:13:53.500 It's no different. But we have placed as a society 00:13:53.500 --> 00:13:57.840 that mindset that it is to be defeated. We have 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:02.740 to defeat it. And unfortunately, the side effect 00:14:02.740 --> 00:14:06.220 of that mindset, there's a stigma associated 00:14:06.220 --> 00:14:11.080 with not treating it. Yeah. And it's a marketing. 00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:14.779 I was sort of smiling because, not because the 00:14:14.779 --> 00:14:18.059 topic isn't a serious one, but because as a communications 00:14:18.059 --> 00:14:21.639 professional, I know that the whole concept of 00:14:21.639 --> 00:14:26.340 the fight is a marketing tool. It's basically 00:14:26.340 --> 00:14:30.860 a tool to raise funds for awareness, to raise 00:14:30.860 --> 00:14:35.340 funds for defeating it. Because without that 00:14:35.340 --> 00:14:39.299 sort of verbiage, People don't get riled up and 00:14:39.299 --> 00:14:42.899 into the battle with you to help you fight something. 00:14:43.259 --> 00:14:46.600 Well, you know, it's just like finding a cure. 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:51.120 That's a much milder form of saying, let's defeat 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:54.240 it, let's beat it, let's fight this battle. It's 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:56.460 the same as developing a cure for something. 00:14:56.620 --> 00:15:01.779 But those sort of semantics don't get people 00:15:01.779 --> 00:15:04.960 emotionally involved. Correct. So that's a marketing. 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:08.350 Now, to be clear. To be clear, I'm not saying 00:15:08.350 --> 00:15:13.250 that people shouldn't donate because we need 00:15:13.250 --> 00:15:16.429 that research. Absolutely. I learned the other 00:15:16.429 --> 00:15:19.950 day, stepping off topic very briefly, but I learned 00:15:19.950 --> 00:15:22.830 the other day that there are some types of cancers 00:15:22.830 --> 00:15:25.250 now that five years ago were considered fatal 00:15:25.250 --> 00:15:28.809 that they're now controlling with a daily medication. 00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:31.259 You take a pill every day and congratulations, 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:33.539 your breast cancer is under control. That's right. 00:15:33.779 --> 00:15:35.559 It's amazing. Isn't that a wonderful thing? And 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:38.299 that's the battle that's being won is the battle 00:15:38.299 --> 00:15:41.740 to raise the funding, to do the research, and 00:15:41.740 --> 00:15:43.879 to be able to find those solutions. The research 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:46.639 needs to happen. It's happening. We do need better 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:50.220 treatments and better early detection. I'm not 00:15:50.220 --> 00:15:53.480 disputing that. I am 1 ,000 % behind that. Oh, 00:15:53.480 --> 00:15:57.000 absolutely. What I am disputing is the emotional 00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:00.340 baggage that is now. being associated with people 00:16:00.340 --> 00:16:04.639 who have to factor in that treatment into their 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:08.980 definition of quality of life right right and 00:16:09.639 --> 00:16:12.480 I want to, we have to bring this conversation 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:14.820 to a close because, again, we've run out of time. 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:17.399 It's good information. It's a good conversation 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:19.639 to have with your loved ones. It's a good conversation 00:16:19.639 --> 00:16:22.340 to have with us, with your comments down below. 00:16:22.379 --> 00:16:25.460 Please do weigh in with your thoughts and suggestions 00:16:25.460 --> 00:16:28.500 for new topics. And before we go, because it's 00:16:28.500 --> 00:16:31.080 such a doggy downer of a subject, I have to leave 00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:35.480 you with a dad joke I heard today. Oh, no. A 00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:42.610 1L llama. is a holy man in Tibet. A 2L llama 00:16:42.610 --> 00:16:47.070 is a beast of burden. So what, I ask you, is 00:16:47.070 --> 00:16:52.669 a 3L llama? I'm not even answering this. A 3L 00:16:52.669 --> 00:16:56.940 llama is a really big fire in Boston. Of course, 00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:59.519 this is all a highly personal choice and no conversations 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:02.539 we have on the Light Keepers podcast should ever 00:17:02.539 --> 00:17:04.700 take the place of your own medical care team 00:17:04.700 --> 00:17:07.559 or other professional advisor who should always 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:10.740 be consulted on the specific situational needs 00:17:10.740 --> 00:17:14.259 that you have. We all need good information to 00:17:14.259 --> 00:17:17.279 help make the most informed decisions and live 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:20.660 life on our own terms. This conversation is to 00:17:20.660 --> 00:17:23.660 help you start thinking because most people are 00:17:23.660 --> 00:17:27.559 not prepared at all. But some people are well 00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:29.779 prepared indeed from joining us right here on 00:17:29.779 --> 00:17:32.759 the Light Keepers podcast every Wednesday at 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:35.880 7 p .m. Eastern. The Light Keepers podcast is 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:38.279 an exclusive production of Vanimation Studios 00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:41.559 and The Guiding Light and is found on all audio 00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:45.920 RSS podcast feeds and also on YouTube. Visit 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:48.799 the website at aguidinglight .org or to make 00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:51.740 a tax -deductible contribution, please send your 00:17:51.740 --> 00:17:54.079 check to the address right here on the screen 00:17:54.079 --> 00:17:56.809 below me. We're so grateful for your support. 00:17:57.089 --> 00:17:59.210 Speaking of that, hit that like and subscribe 00:17:59.210 --> 00:18:03.569 button if you're on YouTube and support us. It's 00:18:03.569 --> 00:18:07.150 free, so you'll catch every single episode. I'm 00:18:07.150 --> 00:18:09.710 Clayton Vandiver, your Light Keeper. We'll see 00:18:09.710 --> 00:18:11.789 you and your llama next time.