WEBVTT 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:03.919 Welcome back to the Light Keepers podcast, an 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:06.240 exclusive production of A Guiding Light, our 00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:09.119 nonprofit charity dedicated to the idea that 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.900 knowledge is power and good information leads 00:00:11.900 --> 00:00:15.019 to a better life. I'm Clayton Vandiver, your 00:00:15.019 --> 00:00:18.019 Light Keeper, with my co -host, as always, Charlene, 00:00:18.079 --> 00:00:20.760 our very own licensed clinical social worker 00:00:20.760 --> 00:00:23.579 certified in the state of Florida. This show 00:00:23.579 --> 00:00:26.839 is dedicated to everyone who wants to get the 00:00:26.839 --> 00:00:29.890 most quality out of life that they can. Join 00:00:29.890 --> 00:00:33.490 us for our conversation this week about the odd 00:00:33.490 --> 00:00:38.729 couple, the spouse or loved one that just doesn't 00:00:38.729 --> 00:00:43.590 quite agree on this edition of the Light Keepers 00:00:43.590 --> 00:01:10.709 podcast. Please leave your questions or comments 00:01:10.709 --> 00:01:12.989 below and join our conversation. Questions are 00:01:12.989 --> 00:01:15.849 answered during the next show online every Wednesday 00:01:15.849 --> 00:01:18.890 evening at 7 p .m. Eastern. The Light Keepers 00:01:18.890 --> 00:01:21.969 podcast is an exclusive production of A Guiding 00:01:21.969 --> 00:01:30.849 Light Incorporated. And agree with what? Agree 00:01:30.849 --> 00:01:34.890 with wishes for medical treatment. Wishes! I 00:01:34.890 --> 00:01:38.290 should have known that. So a lot of times on 00:01:38.290 --> 00:01:41.069 this program we talk about advanced care planning, 00:01:41.329 --> 00:01:45.489 advanced directives. And this goes back to that 00:01:45.489 --> 00:01:47.790 because of an experience I had recently talking 00:01:47.790 --> 00:01:53.189 with a couple. And it was a very, started out 00:01:53.189 --> 00:01:56.709 as a very good conversation and became very intense 00:01:56.709 --> 00:02:02.400 very fast. We got to talking about whether or 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:05.280 not one of them would want to be resuscitated 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:08.960 if their heart stopped. Talking about a do not 00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:14.400 resuscitate form. I see. And one spouse said, 00:02:14.539 --> 00:02:18.099 of course they do. And the other one said, no, 00:02:18.300 --> 00:02:23.780 actually, I don't. And that was probably a little 00:02:23.780 --> 00:02:26.960 bit of a surprise to both you and the other spouse. 00:02:27.750 --> 00:02:30.889 Yes, it was. Usually they're in agreement. Correct. 00:02:31.129 --> 00:02:32.870 They've already talked about things like that. 00:02:32.909 --> 00:02:36.469 Most of the time when I talk with couples or 00:02:36.469 --> 00:02:40.669 even families, it's been an ongoing conversation 00:02:40.669 --> 00:02:43.129 or it's at least something that they've talked 00:02:43.129 --> 00:02:45.330 about. You know, this isn't how I want to be. 00:02:45.409 --> 00:02:47.349 This isn't how I want to live. I don't want to 00:02:47.349 --> 00:02:50.610 do that treatment. So they have a general idea. 00:02:52.430 --> 00:02:56.449 This time there was a difference in opinion and 00:02:56.449 --> 00:03:02.610 for whatever reason, maybe because one person 00:03:02.610 --> 00:03:06.210 was not comfortable bringing that topic up without 00:03:06.210 --> 00:03:09.750 maybe someone there to mediate. Okay. I'm not 00:03:09.750 --> 00:03:12.189 sure what the circumstances were exactly, but 00:03:12.189 --> 00:03:15.409 either way. Did it sort of feel like they might 00:03:15.409 --> 00:03:18.030 have changed their mind recently or maybe even 00:03:18.030 --> 00:03:21.030 on the spur of the moment? I think it was a recent 00:03:21.030 --> 00:03:26.210 development. This is someone who had a lot of 00:03:26.210 --> 00:03:30.889 issues, medical issues going on. Like they reconsidered 00:03:30.889 --> 00:03:33.449 in the scope of those? And they had recently 00:03:33.449 --> 00:03:35.789 been hospitalized, and they could see that things 00:03:35.789 --> 00:03:40.110 were progressing. Well, could there also have 00:03:40.110 --> 00:03:42.830 been a little element of denial on the part of 00:03:42.830 --> 00:03:45.729 the spouse? Like they kind of knew what was going 00:03:45.729 --> 00:03:50.719 on, but weren't ready to... give up yet? There 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:54.360 was no denial. There was an overabundance of 00:03:54.360 --> 00:04:00.060 not wanting to let go. Well, we can understand 00:04:00.060 --> 00:04:02.840 that too. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:05.699 ultimately what it boiled down to. Sometimes 00:04:05.699 --> 00:04:09.539 as a counselor, as a therapist, I have to... 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:12.539 kind of blow the whistle and put the referee 00:04:12.539 --> 00:04:15.439 shirt on and send everyone back to their corners 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:18.579 for a moment. And this was one of those situations 00:04:18.579 --> 00:04:21.459 where I had to bring the meeting to a pause and 00:04:21.459 --> 00:04:26.339 say, we need to talk about this. And there was 00:04:26.339 --> 00:04:29.120 some heated discussion between the two of them. 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:33.759 And it went nowhere in a hurry. And I said, you 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:37.699 know, what I'm hearing here from one person is 00:04:37.699 --> 00:04:42.410 they're tired. They're done. They no longer have 00:04:42.410 --> 00:04:46.730 the quality of life that they want. Well, that's 00:04:46.730 --> 00:04:49.550 a good, I have to bring up an important thing 00:04:49.550 --> 00:04:53.310 I just observed there because, you know, in conversation 00:04:53.310 --> 00:04:57.089 between the two, they might have never noticed, 00:04:57.149 --> 00:04:58.730 they might have never picked up on it, but a 00:04:58.730 --> 00:05:01.449 professional counselor, a professional social 00:05:01.449 --> 00:05:04.029 worker, someone with lots and lots of master's 00:05:04.029 --> 00:05:06.769 degrees. and quite a bit of student loan, is 00:05:06.769 --> 00:05:09.670 someone who is going to recognize that and pick 00:05:09.670 --> 00:05:12.930 up on it intuitively. And that's the wonderful 00:05:12.930 --> 00:05:15.170 thing about having a little bit of professional 00:05:15.170 --> 00:05:18.910 counseling on occasion. Someone there who can 00:05:18.910 --> 00:05:22.670 advocate for you, can sort of see the things 00:05:22.670 --> 00:05:25.370 that maybe you don't want to see or you're not 00:05:25.370 --> 00:05:28.709 able to see, and they pick up on them. Now, not 00:05:28.709 --> 00:05:31.689 every social worker can do this. Not every counselor 00:05:31.689 --> 00:05:34.430 can do this. They're trained to, but some just 00:05:34.430 --> 00:05:39.209 have amazingly intuitive, innate talent. And 00:05:39.209 --> 00:05:41.790 that's why we started this show, because this 00:05:41.790 --> 00:05:44.790 is one of them. An important part of being a 00:05:44.790 --> 00:05:47.329 counselor, at least for me, an important part 00:05:47.329 --> 00:05:52.129 of doing the counseling is not just acknowledging 00:05:52.129 --> 00:05:56.670 what was said, but also recognizing and acknowledging 00:05:56.670 --> 00:06:00.449 what wasn't. Yeah. And that's an important aspect. 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:03.740 And that came into play with this particular 00:06:03.740 --> 00:06:08.000 couple. And I just had to pull it out in the 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:13.139 open and make it speakable. which is basically 00:06:13.139 --> 00:06:16.319 where you take the elephant in the room and you 00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:18.339 pull it out and you put a spotlight on it and 00:06:18.339 --> 00:06:21.600 you say, here it is, let's talk about it. Well, 00:06:21.620 --> 00:06:23.540 a moment ago we were talking about times when 00:06:23.540 --> 00:06:25.819 you may have to ask people to step back into 00:06:25.819 --> 00:06:28.019 their corners and give it a moment, give it a 00:06:28.019 --> 00:06:30.180 pause and think about it. There are also times 00:06:30.180 --> 00:06:33.060 when I guess you have to draw them out and say, 00:06:33.879 --> 00:06:35.759 Look, this is the important thing that we're 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:38.040 all sort of dancing around now. Let's talk about 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:40.439 it. Let's get into that. Exactly. And that's 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:43.720 important. Talking about it and carrying on a 00:06:43.720 --> 00:06:47.199 conversation and being open enough at any stage 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:50.959 in life, in any physical condition, is a good 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:53.360 time to open up even uncomfortable conversations 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:57.720 because without those, you really don't know 00:06:57.720 --> 00:07:00.220 what that other person's wishes might really 00:07:00.220 --> 00:07:05.019 be. And, you know, and the thing here is emotions 00:07:05.019 --> 00:07:09.480 can be frightening. Emotions are scary, especially 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:11.399 when they're coming from someone that we love 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:13.100 and that we care about because we don't want 00:07:13.100 --> 00:07:16.000 to upset them. And so we're going to tiptoe around 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:17.639 that topic. We're going to dance around that 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:20.939 topic. But the thing is, is by doing so, we're 00:07:20.939 --> 00:07:25.620 not doing anybody any favors. And when talking 00:07:25.620 --> 00:07:27.680 about advanced directives, it's particularly 00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:33.360 difficult. Because you know that your choice, 00:07:33.420 --> 00:07:37.040 what you want, is going to hurt them. Do you 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:40.660 think that the inability to bring these things 00:07:40.660 --> 00:07:43.819 up, possibly the fear of hurting the other person 00:07:43.819 --> 00:07:46.680 or just being uncomfortable, do you think that 00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:49.759 it's just, for some people, a human condition? 00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:52.959 Or is it a male -female? more dominant condition. 00:07:53.019 --> 00:07:55.180 No, it's a human condition. Okay. I was wondering 00:07:55.180 --> 00:07:58.379 if it might be that stoic male pride that men 00:07:58.379 --> 00:08:01.000 just don't want to bring up things and talk about 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:05.100 them and be emotional. No, no, it's a human condition. 00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:08.199 It's a human condition. And another aspect of 00:08:08.199 --> 00:08:12.759 the human condition is not wanting to talk about 00:08:12.759 --> 00:08:17.550 our own demise. Oh, of course. our own end of 00:08:17.550 --> 00:08:20.810 life because there is a horrible taboo out there 00:08:20.810 --> 00:08:22.610 that if we talk about it, we're going to make 00:08:22.610 --> 00:08:25.949 it happen, we're going to bring it to pass, speak 00:08:25.949 --> 00:08:31.050 it into being. And newsflash, we're all going 00:08:31.050 --> 00:08:35.289 to die at some point. Better to be prepared than 00:08:35.289 --> 00:08:36.850 not. And something you've told a lot of people 00:08:36.850 --> 00:08:40.169 over the years is that you can look all over 00:08:40.169 --> 00:08:41.950 your body, you're never going to find an expiration 00:08:41.950 --> 00:08:45.340 date. That's true. I haven't found one yet. That's 00:08:45.340 --> 00:08:48.139 very true. And that's actually, that comes from 00:08:48.139 --> 00:08:54.240 a story of one of my hospice patients was very 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:58.120 sick, and they asked me how long they had left 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:00.360 because they were convinced they were going to 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:04.480 die that day. And I checked the feet, checked 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:06.779 the toes, checked the palms, and I said, no, 00:09:06.860 --> 00:09:08.919 can't find it. And they said, find what? I said, 00:09:08.940 --> 00:09:15.210 the expiration date. Making light of a very serious 00:09:15.210 --> 00:09:18.789 thing, but the truth is, as much as we may fear 00:09:18.789 --> 00:09:21.990 it, as much as we may anticipate it, the end 00:09:21.990 --> 00:09:24.029 is going to come for all of us, but we don't 00:09:24.029 --> 00:09:28.389 know when. And, you know, people say, wow, you're 00:09:28.389 --> 00:09:30.870 always dealing with topics or your show is all 00:09:30.870 --> 00:09:33.730 about, you know, nearing end of life, preparing 00:09:33.730 --> 00:09:39.110 for end of life. It's all for older people. Newsflash, 00:09:39.110 --> 00:09:43.830 folks. I'll never forget my first experience 00:09:43.830 --> 00:09:48.269 with the potential for how short life can happen. 00:09:48.450 --> 00:09:51.070 Well, it wasn't my first, but the first I experienced 00:09:51.070 --> 00:09:55.110 as an adult. I was working, one of my first jobs, 00:09:55.210 --> 00:09:59.990 you know, about 19, 20. A 21 -year -old colleague 00:09:59.990 --> 00:10:02.049 of mine dropped to the floor with a heart attack. 00:10:02.789 --> 00:10:08.529 He didn't expect it either. It can happen any... 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:12.639 Anytime. You know, my own father, 48 years old, 00:10:12.679 --> 00:10:15.639 which seems quite young to me now from my perspective, 00:10:15.940 --> 00:10:18.940 he had deep vein thrombosis, 1963. They just 00:10:18.940 --> 00:10:21.440 called it a heart attack. And he dropped to the 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:24.620 floor. They said he was gone before he reached 00:10:24.620 --> 00:10:28.379 the floor. And he certainly didn't expect that. 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:31.840 He didn't see it coming. He didn't plan for it. 00:10:32.330 --> 00:10:35.669 And he had no plans at that time. Now, let me 00:10:35.669 --> 00:10:37.909 ask you something. That's the important thing. 00:10:37.950 --> 00:10:39.289 He didn't expect that was going to happen. I 00:10:39.289 --> 00:10:41.210 hate to interrupt that, but let me ask you. Yeah. 00:10:42.230 --> 00:10:46.549 Had your dad survived that heart attack but not 00:10:46.549 --> 00:10:50.350 been well... The quality of life, yeah. Would 00:10:50.350 --> 00:10:53.750 your mom... have known what he wanted for his 00:10:53.750 --> 00:10:55.710 medical treatment. Well, you see, at that age, 00:10:55.809 --> 00:10:57.649 they never would have discussed that. They never 00:10:57.649 --> 00:10:59.950 would have thought of that. Most people don't. 00:11:00.090 --> 00:11:04.009 This is a conversation for all people at any 00:11:04.009 --> 00:11:07.370 stage in life, in any physical condition. You 00:11:07.370 --> 00:11:09.750 know, we've been married 30 years this year, 00:11:09.870 --> 00:11:12.029 and that's a real blessing. I thank the Lord 00:11:12.029 --> 00:11:15.649 for every minute of my life. But we have only 00:11:15.649 --> 00:11:19.039 had that conversation a handful of times. Usually 00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:22.539 after something catastrophic. Years or in preparation 00:11:22.539 --> 00:11:25.460 for something catastrophic. We've had our share 00:11:25.460 --> 00:11:30.639 of operations and life. A couple of years ago, 00:11:30.779 --> 00:11:34.159 a large SUV decided to T -bone our tiny little 00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:37.179 Prius and turned my wife into a pinball inside 00:11:37.179 --> 00:11:40.340 it. Believe me, we had some conversations immediately 00:11:40.340 --> 00:11:42.840 after that, and thank the Lord we were able to 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:45.620 have those conversations. Correct. But it can 00:11:45.620 --> 00:11:48.240 happen at any time. And the thing is, sometimes 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:52.309 the conversation that you have today... is different 00:11:52.309 --> 00:11:54.490 than the conversation you have tomorrow. And 00:11:54.490 --> 00:11:57.610 that's where this couple was. And even so, a 00:11:57.610 --> 00:12:01.230 long time later as that couple was, you can reconsider. 00:12:01.710 --> 00:12:03.970 Absolutely. And you might not have a chance to 00:12:03.970 --> 00:12:06.070 have that conversation then and say, wait, I've 00:12:06.070 --> 00:12:08.429 changed my mind. I didn't want that. I want this. 00:12:08.570 --> 00:12:10.690 And see, and the thing is, is these care decisions 00:12:10.690 --> 00:12:17.370 have profound impacts. For example, this particular 00:12:17.370 --> 00:12:22.120 couple. The one opted for the do not resuscitate. 00:12:22.460 --> 00:12:27.460 And we had a very long talk and I had to, you 00:12:27.460 --> 00:12:30.240 know, call a timeout, let everybody sit in silence, 00:12:30.299 --> 00:12:32.899 collect their thoughts and then come back into 00:12:32.899 --> 00:12:37.320 the ring. But it was acknowledging what neither 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:40.460 one of them wanted to say. And that was that 00:12:40.460 --> 00:12:43.620 one wasn't ready to give up. One wasn't ready 00:12:43.620 --> 00:12:47.960 to let them go. The other. was no longer happy 00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:51.039 with life. They were very happy with their family. 00:12:51.139 --> 00:12:53.299 They still love their family. They would want 00:12:53.299 --> 00:12:56.340 to be here forever if they could, but they knew 00:12:56.340 --> 00:12:58.759 their health was failing, and they didn't want 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:01.080 to put themselves through that, and they didn't 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:04.120 want to put the family through watching it be 00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:07.460 a long, drawn -out process. That is something 00:13:07.460 --> 00:13:10.460 to think about. Again, at any stage in life, 00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:15.000 at any age, in any physical condition, anything. 00:13:15.710 --> 00:13:18.309 can happen. I used to talk to people when I was 00:13:18.309 --> 00:13:20.710 with the Department of Elder Affairs for a few 00:13:20.710 --> 00:13:25.590 years in a very out in left field break in my 00:13:25.590 --> 00:13:30.250 career and I used to tell people about long -term 00:13:30.250 --> 00:13:34.450 care insurance and they said well what's the 00:13:34.450 --> 00:13:37.190 most important thing you can tell us about long 00:13:37.190 --> 00:13:40.509 -term care insurance? I said well generally when 00:13:40.509 --> 00:13:42.250 you're old enough to be thinking about it it's 00:13:42.250 --> 00:13:44.769 too expensive for you to afford and when you're 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:48.639 able to afford it, you're too young to ever give 00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:52.720 it any thought. And yet anyone at any time can 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:55.419 need long -term care insurance. Absolutely. Because 00:13:55.419 --> 00:13:57.460 if you're that 21 -year -old fellow who survived 00:13:57.460 --> 00:14:01.159 the heart attack, by the way, he might have had 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:04.659 a lifetime infirmity from that that then his 00:14:04.659 --> 00:14:08.120 family would not have been prepared to assist 00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:11.379 him with. And they might have needed special 00:14:11.379 --> 00:14:16.070 treatment, special in -home care. special furnishings, 00:14:16.070 --> 00:14:18.610 all kinds of things that long -term care insurance 00:14:18.610 --> 00:14:20.850 might have helped him with. And I'm not selling 00:14:20.850 --> 00:14:23.429 long -term care insurance. I'm just saying it's 00:14:23.429 --> 00:14:25.210 something that you don't think about when you're 00:14:25.210 --> 00:14:27.009 young because you think you'll live forever. 00:14:27.710 --> 00:14:31.110 And by the time you think, hey, that would be 00:14:31.110 --> 00:14:33.129 a pretty good idea. That might help out me and 00:14:33.129 --> 00:14:36.309 help out my family. Oh, it's unaffordable by 00:14:36.309 --> 00:14:38.730 now. Yeah. Because as you get older, the price 00:14:38.730 --> 00:14:41.190 for that goes up. So if you're a younger viewer 00:14:41.190 --> 00:14:45.509 or listener to the show, Talk to someone about 00:14:45.509 --> 00:14:48.889 that sort of a benefit. If you're newly married 00:14:48.889 --> 00:14:51.090 and you think, you know, I could get into a car 00:14:51.090 --> 00:14:54.929 wreck tomorrow, God forbid, and I might need 00:14:54.929 --> 00:14:57.210 that sort of help. Think about long -term care 00:14:57.210 --> 00:15:02.190 insurance. It's a conversation you and your advisors, 00:15:02.409 --> 00:15:07.570 counselors, might need to have. And, of course, 00:15:07.590 --> 00:15:09.649 you can always add your comments or questions 00:15:09.649 --> 00:15:12.490 below or topics you'd like to hear us talk about. 00:15:13.210 --> 00:15:15.049 Of course, this is all a highly personal choice. 00:15:15.129 --> 00:15:17.629 No conversation we have on the Light Keepers 00:15:17.629 --> 00:15:20.070 podcast should ever take the place of your own 00:15:20.070 --> 00:15:22.889 medical care team or other professional advisor 00:15:22.889 --> 00:15:25.830 who should always be consulted on your specific 00:15:25.830 --> 00:15:28.789 situational needs. We all need good information 00:15:28.789 --> 00:15:31.870 to help make the most informed decisions so we 00:15:31.870 --> 00:15:34.850 can live life on our own terms. This conversation 00:15:34.850 --> 00:15:37.710 is to start you thinking because most people 00:15:37.710 --> 00:15:41.620 are not prepared at all, are they? No. And some 00:15:41.620 --> 00:15:44.039 are very well prepared indeed, just from joining 00:15:44.039 --> 00:15:46.019 us here each week on the Light Keepers Podcast 00:15:46.019 --> 00:15:49.600 every Wednesday at 7 p .m. Eastern. The Light 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:52.000 Keepers Podcast is an exclusive production of 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:55.159 Animation Studios and A Guiding Light and is 00:15:55.159 --> 00:15:58.840 found on all audio RSS podcast feeds and also 00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:02.059 on YouTube. Visit the website at aguidinglight 00:16:02.059 --> 00:16:05.340 .org. or to make a tax -deductible contribution, 00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:07.720 just send your check to the address that's right 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:10.340 below me here on the screen. We're so grateful 00:16:10.340 --> 00:16:12.639 for your support. Speaking of that, hit the Like 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:16.480 and Subscribe buttons. It's free, so you'll catch 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:19.980 every single episode. I'm Clayton Vandiver, your 00:16:19.980 --> 00:16:22.279 Light Keeper. We'll see you next time.