WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.780 Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As 00:00:01.780 --> 00:00:03.740 always, my name is James Geering, and this week 00:00:03.740 --> 00:00:06.080 it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show 00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:09.439 one of the original paramedics from the Freedom 00:00:09.439 --> 00:00:12.699 House and retired assistant chief of Pittsburgh 00:00:12.699 --> 00:00:17.940 EMS, John Moon. Now, what makes this conversation 00:00:17.940 --> 00:00:21.359 so important is it is a re -education of the 00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:25.940 genesis of EMS. Like so many of us, I was told 00:00:25.940 --> 00:00:28.160 that the paramedic program started in states 00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:31.440 like Florida and California. But as you will 00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:34.560 hear, the Freedom House story predates that by 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:38.039 several years. And the original American paramedics 00:00:38.039 --> 00:00:40.799 were black men from the Hill District in Pittsburgh, 00:00:41.140 --> 00:00:45.039 led by the father of CPR, who he himself had 00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:48.899 lost a child to asthma. So we discuss a host 00:00:48.899 --> 00:00:52.039 of topics, from some of the tragedies that peppered 00:00:52.039 --> 00:00:55.210 John's upbringing, becoming a hospital porter, 00:00:55.490 --> 00:00:59.229 the creation of the Freedom House, the development 00:00:59.229 --> 00:01:02.630 of the paramedic program under Dr. Peter Saffer, 00:01:02.729 --> 00:01:05.890 the immense organizational betrayal behind the 00:01:05.890 --> 00:01:09.269 dismantling of that program, the opioid crisis, 00:01:09.629 --> 00:01:13.909 racism, the power of mentorship, and so much 00:01:13.909 --> 00:01:17.769 more. Now, before we get to this incredible conversation, 00:01:18.010 --> 00:01:20.730 as I say every week, please just take a moment. 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:24.239 Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe 00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:28.040 to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating. 00:01:28.750 --> 00:01:32.189 Every single five -star rating truly does elevate 00:01:32.189 --> 00:01:34.950 this podcast, therefore making it easier for 00:01:34.950 --> 00:01:38.569 others to find. And this is a free library of 00:01:38.569 --> 00:01:43.489 over 1 ,200 episodes now. So all I ask in return 00:01:43.489 --> 00:01:46.849 is that you help share these incredible men and 00:01:46.849 --> 00:01:50.129 women's stories so I can get them to every single 00:01:50.129 --> 00:01:53.129 person on planet Earth who needs to hear them. 00:01:53.790 --> 00:01:57.250 So with that being said, I introduce to you... 00:01:57.659 --> 00:02:21.169 Chief John Moon. Enjoy. Well, Chief Moon, I want 00:02:21.169 --> 00:02:23.669 to start by saying two things. Firstly, thank 00:02:23.669 --> 00:02:26.770 you to our mutual friend Kevin Hazard for making 00:02:26.770 --> 00:02:29.250 this introduction. And secondly, I want to welcome 00:02:29.250 --> 00:02:31.509 you today on to the Behind the Shield podcast. 00:02:33.030 --> 00:02:35.849 Thank you so much. It's an honor and a privilege 00:02:35.849 --> 00:02:38.669 and I appreciate this opportunity. So thanks 00:02:38.669 --> 00:02:42.110 for having me on. Well, I'm excited for the conversations 00:02:42.110 --> 00:02:45.569 for a number of reasons, but there is a lot of 00:02:45.569 --> 00:02:51.590 misinformation as far as the genesis of the paramedic 00:02:51.590 --> 00:02:53.629 program that i believed early in my career as 00:02:53.629 --> 00:02:56.550 well so i'm excited to to not only tell the story 00:02:56.550 --> 00:02:58.810 of freedom house but kind of re -educate some 00:02:58.810 --> 00:03:02.430 of our ems audience in the origin of the very 00:03:02.430 --> 00:03:05.469 thing that we love to do today so very first 00:03:05.469 --> 00:03:07.610 question where on planet earth are we finding 00:03:07.610 --> 00:03:11.469 you this afternoon uh right now i'm in pittsburgh 00:03:11.469 --> 00:03:16.789 pennsylvania actually obviously at home for change 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:21.439 I usually do travel around the country. So I'm 00:03:21.439 --> 00:03:25.199 comfortable at home right now. Brilliant. Well, 00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:27.479 I know that you weren't born in Pennsylvania. 00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:29.340 So let's start at the very beginning of your 00:03:29.340 --> 00:03:31.919 journey. Tell me where you were born and tell 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:33.919 me a little bit about your family dynamic, what 00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:38.460 your parents did, how many siblings. Well, we 00:03:38.460 --> 00:03:40.240 would have to go back a great number of years. 00:03:40.379 --> 00:03:45.120 I was born in Atlanta, Georgia. And it was during 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:48.439 a pretty turbulent time. It was a very segregated 00:03:48.439 --> 00:03:52.620 city at that time. The interesting thing about 00:03:52.620 --> 00:03:56.360 that is that segregation was the law in Atlanta. 00:03:56.719 --> 00:04:02.139 And I would have to say that I kind of grew up 00:04:02.139 --> 00:04:07.300 in a poverty -stricken environment and where 00:04:07.300 --> 00:04:16.579 we lived on a dirt road. type of community. The 00:04:16.579 --> 00:04:22.399 home did not have electricity. The bathrooms 00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:27.180 were more or less an outhouse type of design. 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:32.740 And that unfortunately was the norm in the black 00:04:32.740 --> 00:04:37.839 community during that particular time. So we 00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:41.259 kind of grew accustomed to that environment unfortunately 00:04:41.259 --> 00:04:45.680 because the law made sure that you stayed in 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:51.660 a poverty -stricken environment and what happened 00:04:51.660 --> 00:04:54.860 during that time is I was probably about four 00:04:54.860 --> 00:05:00.839 maybe five years old and my mother died in the 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:05.709 bed right next to me and it At that time, you 00:05:05.709 --> 00:05:08.269 really can't conceive the seriousness of it. 00:05:08.389 --> 00:05:13.370 So my father, once he discovered that, took us 00:05:13.370 --> 00:05:16.269 out of the bed and took us to a neighbor's home 00:05:16.269 --> 00:05:23.430 and subsequently called a funeral home. This 00:05:23.430 --> 00:05:27.649 really, at that particular time, blacks didn't 00:05:27.649 --> 00:05:32.490 have the luxury. of a system that we have today. 00:05:33.110 --> 00:05:35.730 There was no such thing as a coroner's inquest 00:05:35.730 --> 00:05:38.350 to determine the cause of death and suspicious 00:05:38.350 --> 00:05:42.129 nature and things like that. So the funeral home 00:05:42.129 --> 00:05:49.129 came and got my mother and took her away to be 00:05:49.129 --> 00:05:53.170 embalmed. And probably about maybe a week later, 00:05:53.269 --> 00:05:58.269 we went to visit her in a funeral home. And we 00:05:58.269 --> 00:06:02.980 actually never saw again after that. That was 00:06:02.980 --> 00:06:07.160 no such thing as a funeral. You see the person 00:06:07.160 --> 00:06:09.920 there and that was it. So I was five years old. 00:06:10.180 --> 00:06:16.079 So the trauma hadn't really set in. So in my 00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:21.459 mind, okay, I still have my dad and he did the 00:06:21.459 --> 00:06:25.240 best he could. He worked every day. And it's 00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:28.620 interesting because He left every day and went 00:06:28.620 --> 00:06:31.420 to work and left my sister and I in the house 00:06:31.420 --> 00:06:35.480 by ourselves. And you're talking about a five 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:38.519 -year -old and a three -year -old. And it's amazing 00:06:38.519 --> 00:06:42.740 because we didn't get into any trouble. We didn't 00:06:42.740 --> 00:06:44.839 do anything that we should not have done at that 00:06:44.839 --> 00:06:47.899 particular time. And we waited for him to come 00:06:47.899 --> 00:06:52.040 home and fix dinner and stuff like that. And, 00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:58.899 you know, we prepared for... bed. There was no 00:06:58.899 --> 00:07:02.220 such thing as a bathtub at that particular time. 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:06.379 So I took baths in a, I guess, an aluminum tub 00:07:06.379 --> 00:07:10.220 that you put water in and then you put the person 00:07:10.220 --> 00:07:15.560 in and you bathe them. And this heating mechanism 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:19.220 was potbelly stove. So there was no electricity 00:07:19.220 --> 00:07:23.480 in the home. And we had kerosene lamps and things 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:27.779 like that. And that was my life. So my father 00:07:27.779 --> 00:07:29.740 did the best he could. He was going back and 00:07:29.740 --> 00:07:32.519 forth to work and leaving us there. And I think 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:36.920 somewhere along the line, fate kind of opened 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:40.500 his eyes to the point where he said, this is 00:07:40.500 --> 00:07:43.540 unfair. I can't continue to do this. And I'm 00:07:43.540 --> 00:07:46.199 just merely paraphrasing what he may have thought. 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:50.220 And I have to provide. something better for my 00:07:50.220 --> 00:07:53.639 two kids. I just can't leave them here and nobody's 00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:55.660 watching them and they didn't go to school and 00:07:55.660 --> 00:08:04.399 things like that. And so somehow he found a orphanage 00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:10.199 on the other side of town and he went there unbeknownst 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:15.660 to us and talked to people and one day he took 00:08:15.660 --> 00:08:19.300 us there to visit. And you're talking about four 00:08:19.300 --> 00:08:23.139 and five year olds. And he was unbeknownst to 00:08:23.139 --> 00:08:26.879 us making arrangements to turn us over to this 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:29.680 facility. So we went there the first day and 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:33.019 he was filling out paperwork and we went outside 00:08:33.019 --> 00:08:34.980 and was playing with all the other kids that 00:08:34.980 --> 00:08:36.659 were there and things like that. And then they 00:08:36.659 --> 00:08:39.220 called us and said, okay, your dad's ready to 00:08:39.220 --> 00:08:42.159 go. And he took us back home. Maybe probably 00:08:42.159 --> 00:08:44.100 about a couple of weeks later, we went back a 00:08:44.100 --> 00:08:47.440 second time. And in our mind, okay, we're going 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:49.639 to visit this place to play with these kids and 00:08:49.639 --> 00:08:56.120 everything is going to be fine. So we're outside 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:58.980 playing with the kids. And then it dawned on 00:08:58.980 --> 00:09:03.240 us that, wow, we have been out here a long time 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:07.019 and our dad hasn't come to get us. So let's go 00:09:07.019 --> 00:09:10.440 find him. So we went back into the facility looking 00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:18.090 for him and he was gone. That was a shock. And 00:09:18.090 --> 00:09:22.490 we were turned over to the house parents that 00:09:22.490 --> 00:09:26.649 were there with roughly about, I would say, 75, 00:09:26.929 --> 00:09:30.629 80 other kids in this facility. You had the females 00:09:30.629 --> 00:09:32.850 on one side and the males on the other side. 00:09:33.090 --> 00:09:38.490 And that was the beginning of our growing up. 00:09:39.009 --> 00:09:46.750 And it was amazing because... We didn't have 00:09:46.750 --> 00:09:50.649 the comfort of parenthood. There was no one to 00:09:50.649 --> 00:09:52.929 pat you on the back for doing well in school. 00:09:53.250 --> 00:09:56.889 And we all slept in a large dormitory and we 00:09:56.889 --> 00:09:59.330 wore the same things back and forth to school. 00:09:59.450 --> 00:10:01.690 And we ate three meals and we played outside. 00:10:01.970 --> 00:10:03.950 And in the summertime, they took our shoes off 00:10:03.950 --> 00:10:07.389 of us and we went barefooted because we had to 00:10:07.389 --> 00:10:12.429 wear them the next day. And so it was a happy 00:10:12.429 --> 00:10:15.659 life for her. for all of us because we didn't 00:10:15.659 --> 00:10:18.860 know any better and you know i'm talking about 00:10:18.860 --> 00:10:21.440 kids that were there that didn't know who their 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:24.559 parents were had never seen them uh it was an 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:26.840 environment where if the police saw you on the 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:28.460 street they would pick you up and take you to 00:10:28.460 --> 00:10:30.220 this facility and your parents never saw you 00:10:30.220 --> 00:10:33.039 again they were not allowed to come visit you 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:36.779 or anything so this is an orphanage that had 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:40.559 All of these kids, myself and my sister included, 00:10:40.779 --> 00:10:44.000 and we survived. We went to a public school and 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:49.399 every day for lunch, we went back to the facility 00:10:49.399 --> 00:10:51.700 and ate lunch and then went back to school. And 00:10:51.700 --> 00:10:55.759 that was our life. And we grew accustomed to 00:10:55.759 --> 00:10:59.220 it. So here I am basically just living the life 00:10:59.220 --> 00:11:05.330 of a child in an orphanage. And periodically 00:11:05.330 --> 00:11:07.750 during the summer, my dad would come and get 00:11:07.750 --> 00:11:09.669 us and we'd go spend two or three weeks with 00:11:09.669 --> 00:11:11.889 him and then come back and things like that. 00:11:12.509 --> 00:11:18.529 And one, probably during the wintertime, one 00:11:18.529 --> 00:11:21.889 of the house parents came up and said, your father 00:11:21.889 --> 00:11:28.850 died. And okay, you can go in this room and you 00:11:28.850 --> 00:11:35.340 can cry. So I was placed in a room. and was subsequently 00:11:35.340 --> 00:11:39.340 left in there for about 15, 20 minutes. And I 00:11:39.340 --> 00:11:42.039 grieved to the best of my knowledge at that time. 00:11:42.639 --> 00:11:48.519 And it was over with. And shortly thereafter, 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:53.940 there was a relative in Pennsylvania that I never 00:11:53.940 --> 00:12:00.080 knew existed who came down during that time and 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:05.039 took us to see him at the funeral home. And we 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:07.759 saw him and then we went back to the funeral 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:10.659 home and she went back to Pennsylvania. And this 00:12:10.659 --> 00:12:15.740 is in Atlanta, Georgia. And apparently the funeral 00:12:15.740 --> 00:12:17.980 home had called to see whether we could come 00:12:17.980 --> 00:12:20.460 to his funeral or not. And the home told him, 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:25.059 no, we couldn't go. So I never really got an 00:12:25.059 --> 00:12:27.879 opportunity to go to my father's funeral to know 00:12:27.879 --> 00:12:33.080 where he was buried or anything like that. That, 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:38.100 in turn, kind of, you know, there was no such 00:12:38.100 --> 00:12:42.080 thing as PTSD at that time. So you survived. 00:12:42.220 --> 00:12:46.659 I was in a survival mode. And knowing that I 00:12:46.659 --> 00:12:49.879 no longer had any parents, I was a ward of the 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:52.820 state or the county, and just like everybody 00:12:52.820 --> 00:12:57.159 else in this facility. And we lived there for 00:12:57.159 --> 00:13:01.830 roughly about six or seven years. Then one day 00:13:01.830 --> 00:13:06.809 we get a call from this relative of ours who 00:13:06.809 --> 00:13:10.730 we spoke to on the phone, and she asked, would 00:13:10.730 --> 00:13:13.730 we want to come and stay with us? In our mind, 00:13:13.769 --> 00:13:16.750 yeah, okay, that's great. We can get out of here. 00:13:17.370 --> 00:13:21.529 And so she made arrangements to come get us, 00:13:21.570 --> 00:13:24.049 and she adopted us, and we came back to Pittsburgh. 00:13:24.690 --> 00:13:28.850 And in the perfect world, that would have been 00:13:28.850 --> 00:13:34.529 grand. But what very few people understood, including 00:13:34.529 --> 00:13:38.250 myself, I knew I was about 14 at the time, that 00:13:38.250 --> 00:13:40.629 there was going to be a great adjustment coming 00:13:40.629 --> 00:13:43.350 from a non -family environment into a family 00:13:43.350 --> 00:13:46.490 environment. So I couldn't adjust to that. And 00:13:46.490 --> 00:13:50.529 I wasn't used to being touched and hugged. And, 00:13:50.529 --> 00:13:55.490 you know, and so I kind of distanced myself from 00:13:55.490 --> 00:13:59.970 everyone. So people started looking at me like 00:13:59.970 --> 00:14:03.470 I was probably crazy or whatever the case was. 00:14:03.690 --> 00:14:07.149 And like I said, it was probably PTSD. And I 00:14:07.149 --> 00:14:10.649 couldn't adjust to a family environment. I went 00:14:10.649 --> 00:14:14.190 to a public school in the eighth grade, and I 00:14:14.190 --> 00:14:18.070 took with me my southern accent. And the kids 00:14:18.070 --> 00:14:19.929 couldn't understand what I was saying. Neither 00:14:19.929 --> 00:14:24.710 could the teachers. So I kind of, you know, kind 00:14:24.710 --> 00:14:29.100 of closed off at that time. and still going through 00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:33.360 this traumatic experience. And I was used to 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:36.019 being by myself. So I would leave the house and 00:14:36.019 --> 00:14:38.139 go off somewhere. Nobody would do where I was. 00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:40.679 And then I would come back and things like that. 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:43.639 I would get fussed at and yelled at because you 00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:50.539 don't do that in a normal family. And so I still 00:14:50.539 --> 00:14:55.080 had trouble adjusting. And then one day they 00:14:55.080 --> 00:15:00.580 thought, well, He kind of needs a lot of help. 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:03.799 And so let's find someone to help. So they brought 00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:06.539 in a couple of social workers and psychiatrists 00:15:06.539 --> 00:15:08.559 to try to find out what was wrong with John Moon. 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:16.299 And so we were sitting in this meeting in our 00:15:16.299 --> 00:15:19.559 home. And I'm sitting there listening. And they 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:21.460 said, well, you know, he leaves and he doesn't 00:15:21.460 --> 00:15:24.080 talk. He doesn't communicate. He doesn't associate 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:26.299 with people. He can't get along with people. 00:15:27.320 --> 00:15:30.899 And I'm sitting there listening. And it was something 00:15:30.899 --> 00:15:35.059 that went on in that meeting that today really 00:15:35.059 --> 00:15:39.799 kind of troubles me. I'm sitting there listening 00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:44.200 to him. And I went into a home that had other 00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:47.840 family members that were a stepsister and a stepbrother 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:50.879 and things like that. And it was an adjustment 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:53.480 period. So they're trying to find out what's 00:15:53.480 --> 00:15:55.919 wrong with me. And I'm listening and I'm sitting 00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:59.779 there. and then i heard something that said well 00:15:59.779 --> 00:16:07.360 they told me not to go get them and i didn't 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:12.279 know that so what that told me at that time is 00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:17.960 that i wasn't wanted in this family so this is 00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:20.580 kind of personal because i left that meeting 00:16:20.580 --> 00:16:27.240 and i went up to a bedroom and i simply slid 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:31.340 down in the wall, and I said, Lord, if you ever 00:16:31.340 --> 00:16:35.500 let me get out of this, I would never have to 00:16:35.500 --> 00:16:41.019 depend on anybody again. And shortly after that, 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:45.179 I got a job, started taking care of myself, and 00:16:45.179 --> 00:16:50.340 I became kind of independent. But on the surface, 00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:54.720 it gives the perception that it's a traumatic 00:16:54.720 --> 00:17:01.409 experience. And it probably could be that. But 00:17:01.409 --> 00:17:05.470 unbeknownst to me, I used it to motivate me, 00:17:05.529 --> 00:17:10.690 to make sure that I would never get caught up 00:17:10.690 --> 00:17:14.849 in this type of situation again. So I became 00:17:14.849 --> 00:17:19.329 more independent, more adult -like, and started 00:17:19.329 --> 00:17:22.849 taking care of myself and things like that. And 00:17:22.849 --> 00:17:27.420 went on to high school and finished. high school 00:17:27.420 --> 00:17:32.900 and tried to go to college but that was that 00:17:32.900 --> 00:17:36.799 adjustment phase and then I ended up working 00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:39.480 in the steel mill for a couple of years and I 00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:41.700 found out I was laid off more times than I was 00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:50.099 working and I ended up getting a job as a shortly 00:17:50.099 --> 00:17:52.779 after that I got married I was probably about 00:17:52.779 --> 00:17:59.319 21 when I got married I had a son And I got a 00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:04.259 job working in a hospital. And I was a hospital 00:18:04.259 --> 00:18:07.480 orderly for about five years. And I'm happy. 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:12.099 I take patients back and forth to therapy. I 00:18:12.099 --> 00:18:17.240 make beds. I bathe the male patients. And I empty 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:22.220 bedpans. And I put in Foley catheters. I'm content. 00:18:23.819 --> 00:18:27.579 And one day I'm in a room and two Freedom House 00:18:27.579 --> 00:18:32.500 personnel came into the room. And it was something 00:18:32.500 --> 00:18:35.380 about these two guys that commanded the attention 00:18:35.380 --> 00:18:38.759 of that room. And here I am probably about 21, 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:43.200 22 years old. And they didn't have to say anything. 00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:47.000 They had afros and beards, which was the style 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:52.529 back at that time. And I had one too. They commanded 00:18:52.529 --> 00:18:54.930 the attention of that room. And I just kept watching 00:18:54.930 --> 00:18:57.670 them. I was in awe of them. And I never said 00:18:57.670 --> 00:18:59.950 anything to them. I watched them. They had white 00:18:59.950 --> 00:19:03.390 uniforms on that was crisp and clean. And they 00:19:03.390 --> 00:19:06.990 had a radio on. And it was mumbling something. 00:19:07.130 --> 00:19:09.369 I couldn't figure out what it was. And I noticed 00:19:09.369 --> 00:19:12.529 there was a patch on their uniform that said 00:19:12.529 --> 00:19:17.369 Freedom House. And they left. And I said, wow. 00:19:18.869 --> 00:19:22.319 Why can't I do that? In my mind, I'm a hospital 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:24.079 lawyer. I've been doing this for five or six 00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:28.240 years. And I transport patients back and forth 00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:35.180 to wherever. And, okay, let me find out how I 00:19:35.180 --> 00:19:37.900 can do that job. So I went to the yellow pages 00:19:37.900 --> 00:19:41.519 of the phone book. Very few people can identify 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:44.359 with that nowadays. And I found out where their 00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:47.440 offices were located. And I went, it was probably 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:50.259 on my lunch hour about a... block from where 00:19:50.259 --> 00:19:52.740 i was working and i went there and went to the 00:19:52.740 --> 00:19:55.000 office one day and in my mind i'm beaming with 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:58.559 confidence i am a hospital orderly and i can 00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:01.920 do all this stuff and i walked in and i said 00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:05.400 i'm here to apply for a job and the guy said 00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:07.619 okay well that's great he said if i showed you 00:20:07.619 --> 00:20:10.099 a picture of the heart would you be able to diagram 00:20:10.099 --> 00:20:16.920 a circulatory system uh no okay, if I showed 00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:18.680 you a picture of the lungs, would you be able 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:24.680 to label the respiratory system? No. He said, 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:27.599 okay, you're not qualified to work here. And 00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:32.220 when he told me that, what he did is he unleashed 00:20:32.220 --> 00:20:35.619 a set of motivating factors in my mind. I'm saying, 00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:38.660 oh, no, he didn't tell me I'm not qualified to 00:20:38.660 --> 00:20:44.309 do that. So I left somewhat downhearted. dejected 00:20:44.309 --> 00:20:48.470 and hurt and that little voice in the back of 00:20:48.470 --> 00:20:50.769 my mind kept saying okay john this is what you 00:20:50.769 --> 00:20:53.910 wanted to do you have to find a way to do it 00:20:53.910 --> 00:20:57.750 so i went back to the yellow pages and founded 00:20:57.750 --> 00:21:02.890 emt program i went there for three months twice 00:21:02.890 --> 00:21:06.210 a week for 13 weeks and passed the course and 00:21:06.210 --> 00:21:10.150 got my little certificate and patch and went 00:21:10.150 --> 00:21:13.240 back to freedom house three months later and 00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:18.680 got hired on the spot. And oftentimes, you think 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:20.759 about it, you'd say the rest is history. And 00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:25.339 it is. But I worked two jobs for two years, 16 00:21:25.339 --> 00:21:28.779 hours a day. I was a lot younger then, so it 00:21:28.779 --> 00:21:31.099 didn't really take anything out of me. I worked 00:21:31.099 --> 00:21:34.180 at the hospital 73 and at Freedom House Ambulance 00:21:34.180 --> 00:21:39.279 Service from 4 to 12. Until I got accustomed 00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:41.740 to what I was doing and started enjoying it. 00:21:42.089 --> 00:21:47.309 And it was amazing because I had found my calling 00:21:47.309 --> 00:21:51.269 that once I started working there, I found out 00:21:51.269 --> 00:21:54.869 that I could do far more benefit for the patient 00:21:54.869 --> 00:21:59.009 than I could do in a hospital setting. And I 00:21:59.009 --> 00:22:01.569 probably worked with those two guys that came 00:22:01.569 --> 00:22:04.170 in the room that day, but never knew who they 00:22:04.170 --> 00:22:09.450 were. And once I started working at Freedom House, 00:22:09.490 --> 00:22:12.380 I really never looked back. And that was the 00:22:12.380 --> 00:22:17.980 job of my dreams. And even to this day, it's 00:22:17.980 --> 00:22:20.519 something that I cherish from that moment on. 00:22:41.740 --> 00:22:45.660 is that for five years, a lot of the world, I 00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:49.480 think three years, the US, we fought a horrendous 00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:53.400 war in the 1940s against fascism. And men and 00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:55.940 women of all colors and creeds, all skin colors, 00:22:56.059 --> 00:23:00.119 all religious persuasions, all sexual orientations 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.319 fought alongside each other to overcome that 00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:07.200 tyranny. And what baffles me is how, in this 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:10.690 case, the Americans as a whole. So obviously 00:23:10.690 --> 00:23:12.910 we've got all our military members coming back 00:23:12.910 --> 00:23:14.609 and then, you know, the rest of the population, 00:23:14.809 --> 00:23:19.450 how we go from such selfless service to the segregation 00:23:19.450 --> 00:23:21.369 and even, you know, lynching and some of the 00:23:21.369 --> 00:23:24.650 horrific things that happen in the 50s and the 00:23:24.650 --> 00:23:28.210 60s. With your lens, what is your perception? 00:23:28.349 --> 00:23:32.089 What went wrong that took arguably the biggest 00:23:32.089 --> 00:23:34.410 life lesson we've had in modern history and turned 00:23:34.410 --> 00:23:39.119 it on its head in the US? Well, A combination 00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:45.380 of things. Unfortunately, you had a lot of protest 00:23:45.380 --> 00:23:51.839 that was bringing to attention all the inequities 00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:55.460 and the racism that was going on back during 00:23:55.460 --> 00:24:00.880 that time because society as a whole had gotten 00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:03.579 to a point where it accepted the way things were. 00:24:06.279 --> 00:24:11.480 There had to be someone that had enough internal 00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:15.079 strength, I'll call it, to step up and say, no, 00:24:15.220 --> 00:24:18.920 we can't continue to live in an environment like 00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:23.900 this. So in order to change the environment, 00:24:24.059 --> 00:24:30.500 you have to change the heart of the people. Unfortunately, 00:24:30.500 --> 00:24:33.799 and that was the most difficult part, whether 00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:35.759 we know it or not, because the people's heart 00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:41.700 portrayed that type of racism and inequities 00:24:41.700 --> 00:24:48.180 and disparities upon a select group of people. 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:53.019 And being that that's the way my heart thinks, 00:24:53.180 --> 00:24:56.579 it became the norm. And we passed segregated 00:24:56.579 --> 00:24:59.660 laws and things that prevented things like that 00:24:59.660 --> 00:25:03.819 from happening. Things that where I had to sit 00:25:03.819 --> 00:25:09.099 at the back of the bus or there was no such thing 00:25:09.099 --> 00:25:13.400 as integrated schools during that time. And so 00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:20.720 if I can continue to, I want to say brainwash 00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:24.829 you into thinking that you are less than. and 00:25:24.829 --> 00:25:26.910 I continue to do that on a day -to -day basis, 00:25:27.150 --> 00:25:31.710 then you eventually start to accept it. And so 00:25:31.710 --> 00:25:38.009 in order to change that, there had to be a lot 00:25:38.009 --> 00:25:43.369 of individuals that were bold enough to institute 00:25:43.369 --> 00:25:49.690 change. And you did that by different marches 00:25:49.690 --> 00:25:58.940 and... sit -ins and unfortunately rioting had 00:25:58.940 --> 00:26:02.559 to bring attention. And that's what it was, bringing 00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:05.119 attention to the inequities that were going on 00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:07.420 in this country at that particular time. And, 00:26:07.579 --> 00:26:12.440 you know, obviously I was a victim of it. And 00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:16.460 so I knew firsthand what it would be like not 00:26:16.460 --> 00:26:19.859 to go into a particular store because of the 00:26:19.859 --> 00:26:22.809 color of your skin. or can't sit in the front 00:26:22.809 --> 00:26:27.170 of the bus, or there was no such thing as African 00:26:27.170 --> 00:26:31.329 American police officers during that time. So, 00:26:31.329 --> 00:26:35.950 you know, change had to take place. And oftentimes, 00:26:36.210 --> 00:26:42.710 change is very difficult. And there are people 00:26:42.710 --> 00:26:47.170 that refuse to accept change. And if I refuse 00:26:47.170 --> 00:26:50.190 to accept it, then I'm going to fight against 00:26:50.190 --> 00:26:53.099 it. And that's exactly what was going on at the 00:26:53.099 --> 00:26:58.500 time. And I look back at that period, and then 00:26:58.500 --> 00:27:03.579 I fast forward to today's generation. They can't 00:27:03.579 --> 00:27:07.680 imagine something like that being present. Because 00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:13.160 unfortunately, the history of African Americans 00:27:13.160 --> 00:27:16.839 have been removed from schools. So this generation 00:27:16.839 --> 00:27:19.839 really had no vision, no concept of what went 00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:26.400 on back during that time. And so it's still kind 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:29.279 of hidden, for lack of a better term, because 00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:32.059 if I can remove it from the books and out of 00:27:32.059 --> 00:27:33.799 the schools, then you don't know anything about 00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:37.980 it. So those are the types of things that motivated 00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:44.869 me, even today, to try to change things. from 00:27:44.869 --> 00:27:50.029 what they were 50, 60 years ago. I literally 00:27:50.029 --> 00:27:53.730 this morning finished reading 1984, George Orwell, 00:27:53.890 --> 00:27:56.109 and that was written three years after World 00:27:56.109 --> 00:27:59.609 War II. And it literally could have been written 00:27:59.609 --> 00:28:04.130 this year, the way it talks about control. And 00:28:04.130 --> 00:28:06.690 those same lessons just repeat themselves over 00:28:06.690 --> 00:28:08.450 and over again. It's not just this country, it's 00:28:08.450 --> 00:28:11.670 all over the world. There's a few small groups 00:28:11.670 --> 00:28:16.150 of people. that want to gain wealth, gain power 00:28:16.150 --> 00:28:18.789 at the expense of the masses. And it could be 00:28:18.789 --> 00:28:22.950 African -American. It could be a certain religion. 00:28:23.069 --> 00:28:26.670 It could just simply be a population. And it's 00:28:26.670 --> 00:28:28.950 nauseating because, I mean, this is exactly what 00:28:28.950 --> 00:28:31.089 that book is about. If you take away and rewrite 00:28:31.089 --> 00:28:33.390 history to the point where if you repeat it over 00:28:33.390 --> 00:28:35.369 and over again, people start questioning what 00:28:35.369 --> 00:28:38.140 actually is the truth. then you find yourself 00:28:38.140 --> 00:28:40.440 here and you look at not picking on either side 00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:43.299 you look at cnn you look at fox you look at you 00:28:43.299 --> 00:28:45.359 know the the last few people that we've had put 00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:48.519 in front of us of left and right it's the same 00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:50.799 thing it's a repeating of no no no no you know 00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:53.279 whether it's about covid and vaccines or whether 00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:55.440 it's about the current you know iran whatever 00:28:55.440 --> 00:29:00.210 and it's the same pattern and if we allow like 00:29:00.210 --> 00:29:02.890 you said, books to be removed and history to 00:29:02.890 --> 00:29:06.470 be rebuked, then here we are, you know, doing 00:29:06.470 --> 00:29:09.069 the same things over and over again. And I really 00:29:09.069 --> 00:29:12.369 feel that the incredible human beings that fought 00:29:12.369 --> 00:29:15.630 in the 40s would be rolling in their graves, 00:29:15.750 --> 00:29:18.309 realizing that we were allowing the exact same 00:29:18.309 --> 00:29:21.730 thing to happen somewhat, you know, 80 plus years 00:29:21.730 --> 00:29:30.480 later. Right. And that's amazing because... We're 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:34.440 talking about something that happened back in 00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:40.240 the 60s that still displayed disparities despite 00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:45.119 all of the protests and the Civil Rights Act 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:48.079 and voter registrations and things like that. 00:29:48.259 --> 00:29:53.119 Those things still existed, and someone had to 00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:57.619 step up and institute change. Because if you 00:29:57.619 --> 00:30:00.779 don't, then people seem to think that it's okay. 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:04.759 Yeah, and I can say this even from a much lesser 00:30:04.759 --> 00:30:06.900 point of view, but even trying to facilitate 00:30:06.900 --> 00:30:09.400 change within the fire service, when you put 00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:12.640 your neck out and you start speaking truth, especially 00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:14.779 in our profession where so many of our men and 00:30:14.779 --> 00:30:18.440 women die from work -related physical issues 00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:22.539 or mental health issues, even then, I've felt 00:30:22.539 --> 00:30:24.640 it firsthand, you become public enemy number 00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:26.990 one. And you're actually trying to do the right 00:30:26.990 --> 00:30:28.990 thing. And it's nonviolent and it's just, you 00:30:28.990 --> 00:30:31.490 know, presenting all the information. But when 00:30:31.490 --> 00:30:33.970 someone is brainwashed and it's indoctrinated 00:30:33.970 --> 00:30:36.670 that this is the truth and don't you dare deviate 00:30:36.670 --> 00:30:39.410 from it, then, you know, for example, modern 00:30:39.410 --> 00:30:42.890 fire service, 56 hours, 80 hours of mandatory 00:30:42.890 --> 00:30:46.089 overtime a week. no don't you question that even 00:30:46.089 --> 00:30:48.609 though the person who gets you coffee at starbucks 00:30:48.609 --> 00:30:51.309 works 40 hours and sleeps every night you know 00:30:51.309 --> 00:30:54.250 so it's a very you know lesser example but yeah 00:30:54.250 --> 00:30:56.869 having that moral courage to question the way 00:30:56.869 --> 00:30:59.250 that you've been taught and ask yourself just 00:30:59.250 --> 00:31:01.089 simply does this make sense or not and if it 00:31:01.089 --> 00:31:03.130 does you know and you can put it through you 00:31:03.130 --> 00:31:05.170 know the reasons why it makes sense then great 00:31:05.170 --> 00:31:07.890 but if there's a there's a tripping up of your 00:31:07.890 --> 00:31:11.049 psyche like, does that make sense? Are people 00:31:11.049 --> 00:31:14.089 of different colors lesser than us? Of course 00:31:14.089 --> 00:31:16.150 not. Then all of a sudden you start cracking 00:31:16.150 --> 00:31:19.190 open the real truth and hopefully you then stand 00:31:19.190 --> 00:31:21.230 side by side with everyone else being the voice 00:31:21.230 --> 00:31:25.470 of reason. You're absolutely correct. And that 00:31:25.470 --> 00:31:33.109 was my mindset once both working at Freedom House. 00:31:33.640 --> 00:31:36.200 because we dealt with challenges on a day -to 00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:39.200 -day basis. And once we were absorbed by the 00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:41.160 city of Pittsburgh, those challenges continued 00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:44.579 on. They didn't just go away. Despite the fact 00:31:44.579 --> 00:31:49.160 that we went to a somewhat, on the surface, it 00:31:49.160 --> 00:31:52.900 was a much better system because they had everything 00:31:52.900 --> 00:31:56.420 and we were still struggling to stay afloat. 00:31:56.579 --> 00:32:01.200 But those same issues transcended over to the 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:07.000 other service. It really did. When I joined the 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:09.740 fire service, I was told that the birth of paramedicine 00:32:09.740 --> 00:32:14.099 was from the Miami area, Los Angeles. And again, 00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:16.660 that's not like a horrible history. It's not 00:32:16.660 --> 00:32:19.579 saying it was all white people. And it was just 00:32:19.579 --> 00:32:21.500 that this is where they were told was the origin. 00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:26.759 When Kevin came on, Kevin Hazard, American Sirens, 00:32:26.940 --> 00:32:30.650 it totally opened my eyes to the actual. origin 00:32:30.650 --> 00:32:33.369 story and again some of the the beautiful you 00:32:33.369 --> 00:32:35.230 know uplifting side and then some of the darker 00:32:35.230 --> 00:32:38.269 side as well so let's start the very beginning 00:32:38.269 --> 00:32:42.109 you mentioned police officers who was responding 00:32:42.109 --> 00:32:44.690 to these medical emergencies especially in some 00:32:44.690 --> 00:32:48.069 of these you know these uh less affluent areas 00:32:48.069 --> 00:32:51.970 and then you know what what was that origin story 00:32:51.970 --> 00:32:54.549 of the freedom house in a project in the first 00:32:54.549 --> 00:32:59.450 place well um That's interesting, primarily because 00:32:59.450 --> 00:33:04.890 law enforcement were the primary transport system 00:33:04.890 --> 00:33:08.269 to the emergency room. And very few people today 00:33:08.269 --> 00:33:12.170 can imagine a police wagon pulling up to your 00:33:12.170 --> 00:33:15.490 door and two white officers coming there and 00:33:15.490 --> 00:33:17.490 escorting you and placing you in the back of 00:33:17.490 --> 00:33:21.390 this police wagon on a canvas cot and both officers 00:33:21.390 --> 00:33:24.299 getting up front. And the way you went. to the 00:33:24.299 --> 00:33:26.759 emergency room and that was the norm not only 00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:30.200 here in pittsburgh but across the country that 00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:35.119 was the primary transport system and it's interesting 00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:41.380 because during that time a lot of communities 00:33:41.380 --> 00:33:45.599 primarily black communities were somewhat poverty 00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:51.829 stricken and and the powers to be meaning a lot 00:33:51.829 --> 00:33:53.990 of the protests and things like that brought 00:33:53.990 --> 00:33:57.710 attention to that so the federal government decided 00:33:57.710 --> 00:34:02.809 to try to impact this inequity and they started 00:34:02.809 --> 00:34:07.289 funneling funds throughout the country different 00:34:07.289 --> 00:34:11.769 parts of different cities to offset the poverty 00:34:11.769 --> 00:34:15.110 -stricken areas and and pittsburgh was one of 00:34:15.110 --> 00:34:18.650 them and the community that i grew up in pittsburgh's 00:34:18.650 --> 00:34:22.179 hill district was a recipient of a small amount 00:34:22.179 --> 00:34:26.300 of funding to offset the inequities in housing 00:34:26.300 --> 00:34:29.900 and job training and job placement and things 00:34:29.900 --> 00:34:34.119 like that. And one of the gentlemen by the name 00:34:34.119 --> 00:34:37.619 of James McCoy, who was a community activist, 00:34:37.980 --> 00:34:46.039 started an organization called Freedom House 00:34:46.039 --> 00:34:49.000 Enterprise Incorporated. It was a nonprofit organization 00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:51.739 that's primarily responsible for job placement, 00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:56.059 job training, voter registration. And that was 00:34:56.059 --> 00:35:01.380 even a mini food bank in this community organization. 00:35:01.420 --> 00:35:05.420 It was more or less a storefront. And it had 00:35:05.420 --> 00:35:10.099 a board of directors. Some of them were attorneys 00:35:10.099 --> 00:35:13.760 and foundation presidents and things like that. 00:35:15.940 --> 00:35:18.340 One of the board of directors, a gentleman by 00:35:18.340 --> 00:35:21.420 the name of Phil Hallen, he came up with a vision. 00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:26.079 And his vision was, if this organization can 00:35:26.079 --> 00:35:29.699 deliver food to the residents of this underserved 00:35:29.699 --> 00:35:33.079 community, why can't they deliver medical care? 00:35:33.780 --> 00:35:37.739 And that was a great vision, but he didn't know 00:35:37.739 --> 00:35:41.059 how to put it in operation. So if you could imagine. 00:35:41.769 --> 00:35:44.869 In this underserved community, the police were 00:35:44.869 --> 00:35:47.949 the primary transport system to the emergency 00:35:47.949 --> 00:35:50.869 room. You had residents that couldn't get back 00:35:50.869 --> 00:35:53.449 and forth to doctor's appointments and things 00:35:53.449 --> 00:35:58.230 like that. So the community itself, unfortunately, 00:35:58.429 --> 00:36:01.630 had what I would call an adversarial relationship 00:36:01.630 --> 00:36:05.010 with the police. Law enforcement didn't care 00:36:05.010 --> 00:36:08.070 anything about the community, so the community 00:36:08.070 --> 00:36:12.219 didn't trust law enforcement. Unfortunately, 00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:17.699 at that time, the police, they decided whether 00:36:17.699 --> 00:36:19.619 they wanted to transport you, whether they wanted 00:36:19.619 --> 00:36:21.619 to come, how long it wanted to take them to get 00:36:21.619 --> 00:36:24.460 there or not. And so they kind of controlled 00:36:24.460 --> 00:36:27.980 that environment. And the community itself was 00:36:27.980 --> 00:36:32.340 kind of held captive within its circumference 00:36:32.340 --> 00:36:36.280 because the political powers to be didn't even 00:36:36.280 --> 00:36:38.599 care anything about the community and things 00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:43.289 like that. Here is this gentleman, if you could 00:36:43.289 --> 00:36:47.730 imagine, coming up with this vision, saying, 00:36:47.769 --> 00:36:50.710 why can't we deliver medical care to this underserved 00:36:50.710 --> 00:36:55.909 community? He reached out to the local hospital, 00:36:56.070 --> 00:36:59.010 which was Presbyterian Hospital at that time, 00:36:59.130 --> 00:37:02.610 which is now UPMC Medical Center. And they put 00:37:02.610 --> 00:37:04.789 him in touch with a gentleman by the name of 00:37:04.789 --> 00:37:09.449 Dr. Peter Saffer. And Dr. Saffer was a visionary 00:37:09.449 --> 00:37:12.849 in his own right. It was his vision to prove 00:37:12.849 --> 00:37:16.090 to the world that it wasn't how fast you got 00:37:16.090 --> 00:37:18.949 that person to the emergency room that determined 00:37:18.949 --> 00:37:21.849 the outcome, but what was being done for them 00:37:21.849 --> 00:37:24.610 before they got there. And no one believed him. 00:37:24.929 --> 00:37:27.250 The medical community kind of turned their back 00:37:27.250 --> 00:37:31.269 on him. The political powers, they blew him off. 00:37:31.489 --> 00:37:34.150 So he was kind of, he did all types of research. 00:37:34.409 --> 00:37:38.570 So he was kind of stuck with his vision. So up 00:37:38.570 --> 00:37:42.360 comes this organization. with their vision of 00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:45.400 trying to improve medical care in this underserved, 00:37:45.659 --> 00:37:48.219 neglected community. And it was more or less 00:37:48.219 --> 00:37:50.900 like a merger or a marriage, I would call it. 00:37:51.219 --> 00:37:55.099 And Dr. Saffer saw an opportunity to get his 00:37:55.099 --> 00:37:59.500 vision out to the world. In return, this community 00:37:59.500 --> 00:38:03.840 wanted to improve medical care, an alternative 00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:07.960 response to utilizing police. And they had one 00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:12.579 request. Every person you teach has to be black. 00:38:13.420 --> 00:38:18.599 And he agreed to that. So he takes 25 black men 00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:22.179 at that time, myself included, and he puts us 00:38:22.179 --> 00:38:24.159 through the most intense training program that 00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:25.699 had ever been done anywhere in this country. 00:38:26.699 --> 00:38:29.659 We spent time in the emergency room, not observing, 00:38:29.739 --> 00:38:34.610 but taking care of patients. Spent time in the 00:38:34.610 --> 00:38:37.250 intensive care unit, the coronary care unit. 00:38:37.309 --> 00:38:41.469 We spent time with the IV team. We even spent 00:38:41.469 --> 00:38:44.289 time in the morgue studying anatomy and physiology. 00:38:44.969 --> 00:38:49.329 In the animal lab late at night under the cover 00:38:49.329 --> 00:38:51.710 of darkness because we didn't want any blowback 00:38:51.710 --> 00:38:54.110 from animal rights groups and things like that. 00:38:54.530 --> 00:39:00.869 And including the operating room. You're talking 00:39:00.869 --> 00:39:04.809 to the very first person in the country with 00:39:04.809 --> 00:39:07.809 the high school education at that time to go 00:39:07.809 --> 00:39:11.170 into an operating room to perform a tracheal 00:39:11.170 --> 00:39:15.050 intubation on an anesthetized patient. It had 00:39:15.050 --> 00:39:18.329 never been done before because that was a skill 00:39:18.329 --> 00:39:21.309 reserved for doctors and medical students and 00:39:21.309 --> 00:39:24.369 anesthetists and anesthesiologists. Here you 00:39:24.369 --> 00:39:27.070 got this guy with the high school education. 00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:30.940 coming in there and performing that skill. And 00:39:30.940 --> 00:39:35.800 that was a challenge because it was interesting 00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:39.440 because when I did it, they didn't tell me why 00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:43.179 I was meeting the chairman of the critical care 00:39:43.179 --> 00:39:46.820 medicine and the anesthesiology department. They 00:39:46.820 --> 00:39:50.099 said, meet him. And I met him and they put me 00:39:50.099 --> 00:39:52.039 in the operating room with a tire, the mask, 00:39:52.260 --> 00:39:54.699 the shoes, the hat and stuff. And we opened the 00:39:54.699 --> 00:39:57.460 door to the operating room to go in and everything 00:39:57.460 --> 00:40:02.960 stopped. The OR technician stopped what they 00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:05.539 were doing. And the surgeon who was preparing 00:40:05.539 --> 00:40:07.840 to operate on the patient stopped what they were 00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:10.619 doing. And the anesthesiologist who had anesthetized 00:40:10.619 --> 00:40:15.079 the patient, he stopped. And they all were looking 00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:21.929 at me. What I found out later is that the reason 00:40:21.929 --> 00:40:25.550 they were watching me is because the only time 00:40:25.550 --> 00:40:27.750 someone to look like me came into an operating 00:40:27.750 --> 00:40:32.090 room was with a mop or a bucket. But I didn't 00:40:32.090 --> 00:40:36.909 have that. So Dr. Saffer, in his less eloquent 00:40:36.909 --> 00:40:40.030 way, walks over to the anesthesiologist and say, 00:40:40.070 --> 00:40:44.449 get up. You sit down and intubate that patient. 00:40:48.870 --> 00:40:52.849 and in the anatomy lab and animals and things 00:40:52.849 --> 00:40:56.909 like that. And I knew all these people were watching, 00:40:57.070 --> 00:41:03.989 but I didn't see them. And I sat down and intubated 00:41:03.989 --> 00:41:07.889 the patient successfully on the very first try. 00:41:08.469 --> 00:41:12.650 And at that particular time, failure was not 00:41:12.650 --> 00:41:17.519 an option because we were writing. the paramedic 00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:20.659 training manual that every paramedic in the country 00:41:20.659 --> 00:41:22.960 was required to read to become a paramedic in 00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:25.579 the United States, emergency care in the streets. 00:41:25.780 --> 00:41:28.760 Because had I failed that procedure, there's 00:41:28.760 --> 00:41:30.760 a great chance the paramedics would not be doing 00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:35.179 it today. And I finished that day going around 00:41:35.179 --> 00:41:38.500 from room to room intubating unsuspected patients 00:41:38.500 --> 00:41:42.019 that were being prepared for surgery. Little 00:41:42.019 --> 00:41:45.650 did I know, less than a week later, I would take 00:41:45.650 --> 00:41:49.289 that skill from the operating room out into the 00:41:49.289 --> 00:41:52.969 field and perform it in a person's home. It had 00:41:52.969 --> 00:41:57.489 never been done before. And that in itself was 00:41:57.489 --> 00:42:03.630 a unique challenge because I, okay, I performed 00:42:03.630 --> 00:42:06.349 it in an operating room, big deal. Let's move 00:42:06.349 --> 00:42:11.809 on. And we had a patient who was having trouble 00:42:11.809 --> 00:42:16.989 breathing. at home, and we contacted our medical 00:42:16.989 --> 00:42:22.289 director, and we gave her the medical condition, 00:42:22.510 --> 00:42:25.269 and she said, intubate the patient and start 00:42:25.269 --> 00:42:29.150 an IV. And at that time, I thought she had lost 00:42:29.150 --> 00:42:39.070 her mind. And I asked her to repeat it. She said, 00:42:39.110 --> 00:42:42.639 intubate the patient and start an IV. So I had 00:42:42.639 --> 00:42:45.519 my partner set the stuff up and I intubated the 00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:47.960 patient successfully and we transported the person 00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:52.340 to the emergency room. And unbeknownst to me, 00:42:52.480 --> 00:43:01.360 that was another challenge because the emergency 00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:06.179 rooms at that time were not accustomed to someone 00:43:06.179 --> 00:43:09.400 looking like me coming into an emergency room 00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:14.199 with... an anesthetized patient with an IV already 00:43:14.199 --> 00:43:18.179 started on him. And so I got questioned by the 00:43:18.179 --> 00:43:21.440 emergency room doctor. Who did this? I said, 00:43:21.460 --> 00:43:24.159 I did. Well, who told you to do it? Our medical 00:43:24.159 --> 00:43:27.719 director, Dr. Nancy Caroline. And who are you? 00:43:27.780 --> 00:43:29.639 I said, I'm John Moon, and I work for Freedom 00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:33.400 House Ambulance Service. So that was a constant 00:43:33.400 --> 00:43:38.260 challenge. So it's interesting because, believe 00:43:38.260 --> 00:43:40.960 it or not, We had to teach the emergency rooms 00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:45.079 that whenever a Freedom House paramedic came 00:43:45.079 --> 00:43:49.079 in, expect that person to tell you the chief 00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:53.360 complaint, the medical, past medical history, 00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:57.539 the vital signs, the EKG reading, what the lung 00:43:57.539 --> 00:44:00.900 sounds are, what medications I've given them, 00:44:00.940 --> 00:44:03.519 the past medical history. They were not accustomed 00:44:03.519 --> 00:44:06.219 to someone looking like me talking to them on 00:44:06.219 --> 00:44:08.860 their own level. So we got laughed at. We got 00:44:08.860 --> 00:44:13.099 mocked. And so we had to come up with a strategy. 00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:17.199 Instead of talking to the nurse, we came in and 00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:20.219 looked for a doctor and started talking to him 00:44:20.219 --> 00:44:22.860 under his own language, and it was received. 00:44:23.179 --> 00:44:29.320 So we were what I would call doing something 00:44:29.320 --> 00:44:33.280 that had never been done before, but we became 00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:38.840 victims of our own success. And it was interesting 00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:43.659 because here we are running up and down the street, 00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:46.400 the community, taking people back and forth to 00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:50.619 their doctor's appointments and treating critically 00:44:50.619 --> 00:44:56.340 ill individuals. And so the city of Pittsburgh 00:44:56.340 --> 00:45:01.059 discovered that. So they entered into an agreement 00:45:01.059 --> 00:45:04.960 with us to provide pre -hospital care to the 00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:08.269 business district. And so we signed the contract 00:45:08.269 --> 00:45:10.769 with the city of Pittsburgh that we would handle 00:45:10.769 --> 00:45:13.090 free hospital care in the business district. 00:45:13.250 --> 00:45:16.369 We weren't allowed in any other community throughout 00:45:16.369 --> 00:45:21.489 the city of Pittsburgh. So we discovered that 00:45:21.489 --> 00:45:26.070 even in our own community, the police, who still 00:45:26.070 --> 00:45:30.269 were the major providers, were not giving us 00:45:30.269 --> 00:45:32.570 the calls in our community that we should have 00:45:32.570 --> 00:45:35.559 been getting. And once we discovered that, we 00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:38.360 had to come up with a solution. So we bought 00:45:38.360 --> 00:45:42.480 a police scanner, and we monitored police radio, 00:45:42.659 --> 00:45:46.239 that whenever a call came in in our response 00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:51.219 area, we would self -dispatch and beat the police 00:45:51.219 --> 00:45:54.340 on the scene, treat the patient, and pass the 00:45:54.340 --> 00:45:56.599 police on the way to the hospital, and they're 00:45:56.599 --> 00:46:02.050 still going to the person's residence. We grew 00:46:02.050 --> 00:46:04.769 accustomed to that. We grew accustomed to the 00:46:04.769 --> 00:46:08.429 police cussing us out at the scene of calls because 00:46:08.429 --> 00:46:12.050 we challenged them on their treatment of particular 00:46:12.050 --> 00:46:16.949 patients and things like that. And so we were 00:46:16.949 --> 00:46:21.469 the primary response system in the city. And 00:46:21.469 --> 00:46:25.889 no one really knew about what was going on in 00:46:25.889 --> 00:46:29.570 the Hill. They didn't make it public. And one 00:46:29.570 --> 00:46:33.559 day... In one of your fluid communities, there 00:46:33.559 --> 00:46:36.679 was a child struck by a bus, a very traumatic 00:46:36.679 --> 00:46:40.500 injury. And the police, which was the primary 00:46:40.500 --> 00:46:43.840 response throughout the city, arrived on the 00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:49.380 scene and they panicked. They had never seen 00:46:49.380 --> 00:46:53.300 any traumatic injuries such as this before. So 00:46:53.300 --> 00:46:56.900 in their mind, can you send Freedom House out 00:46:56.900 --> 00:47:01.360 here? And the dispatcher said, no, I can't send 00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:05.980 them because it's not their district. And the 00:47:05.980 --> 00:47:07.900 police responded, well, you better send someone 00:47:07.900 --> 00:47:11.539 out here that knows what they're doing. So we 00:47:11.539 --> 00:47:16.519 were monitoring police radio. So we self -dispatched 00:47:16.519 --> 00:47:20.360 to this call out of our community into an affluent 00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:23.659 community, treated the child, transported him 00:47:23.659 --> 00:47:25.900 to the emergency room, subsequently saved his 00:47:25.900 --> 00:47:29.090 life, and that was great. But what we didn't 00:47:29.090 --> 00:47:35.030 know is the community saw that. They saw this 00:47:35.030 --> 00:47:38.650 super vehicle with these gentlemen in white uniforms 00:47:38.650 --> 00:47:42.369 providing pre -hospital care at the scene and 00:47:42.369 --> 00:47:45.150 placing the patient on a stretcher and transporting 00:47:45.150 --> 00:47:49.010 them to the emergency room. And they voiced their 00:47:49.010 --> 00:47:51.449 concerns to the political machine at that time. 00:47:52.650 --> 00:47:56.730 How dare you allow those people in that public 00:47:56.730 --> 00:48:00.320 housing rundown community have better medical 00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:04.860 care than I do. I voted for you. I contributed 00:48:04.860 --> 00:48:08.820 to your campaign. I own this business. You better 00:48:08.820 --> 00:48:13.360 do something. So from a local standpoint, they 00:48:13.360 --> 00:48:16.559 voiced their concerns to the mayor. And so he 00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:19.000 had to bow to the wishes of the people that were 00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:23.900 going to vote for it. So the common sense approach 00:48:23.900 --> 00:48:27.079 is, I know what this service can do. They can 00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:30.900 do all this advanced treatment and stuff like 00:48:30.900 --> 00:48:34.559 that. So let's expand them into the rest of the 00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:39.360 community, the easiest thing to do. Instead of 00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:41.860 doing that, he decided to create his own EMS 00:48:41.860 --> 00:48:46.239 system. And there was no room in it for an entity 00:48:46.239 --> 00:48:51.940 such as Freedom House. But he couldn't just get 00:48:51.940 --> 00:48:56.539 rid of us. So he came up with a strategic way 00:48:56.539 --> 00:49:00.679 to make it difficult for us to operate. Remember, 00:49:00.780 --> 00:49:06.400 we had a contract with the city of Pittsburgh. 00:49:07.059 --> 00:49:10.119 So our administration gets a call from the mayor's 00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:14.760 office, come down to see me. And in our mind, 00:49:14.820 --> 00:49:16.940 we're saying, wow, the mayor is calling us down. 00:49:18.159 --> 00:49:21.320 We're going to expand Freedom House to the rest 00:49:21.320 --> 00:49:23.219 of the city and everything's going to be fine. 00:49:23.539 --> 00:49:26.980 So we drew up a program as to where to place 00:49:26.980 --> 00:49:31.199 a paramedic unit in every community in the city 00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:33.239 of Pittsburgh. And we took it down and handed 00:49:33.239 --> 00:49:37.039 it to the mayor. He takes it and says, put it 00:49:37.039 --> 00:49:40.400 on my desk. I'll give it to my director. He says, 00:49:40.460 --> 00:49:43.840 the reason I called you down is that your sirens 00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:47.039 are making too much noise. Can you put a bell 00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:50.960 or something on the truck, like an ice cream 00:49:50.960 --> 00:49:55.860 truck? And so what he did is he issued an executive 00:49:55.860 --> 00:49:59.480 order that whenever Freedom House went to the 00:49:59.480 --> 00:50:02.420 downtown business district, we were not allowed 00:50:02.420 --> 00:50:06.639 to use our sirens. So if someone's lying in the 00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:09.960 street struck by a vehicle, we would respond, 00:50:10.340 --> 00:50:12.780 stop at the red light, wait for it to change, 00:50:12.940 --> 00:50:15.199 move to the next red light, wait for it to change. 00:50:15.869 --> 00:50:18.610 And that impacted our response times. All the 00:50:18.610 --> 00:50:21.030 while, behind the scenes, he's creating his own 00:50:21.030 --> 00:50:25.750 EMF system. The second thing is we had a contract 00:50:25.750 --> 00:50:28.710 with the city of Pittsburgh to provide pre -hospital 00:50:28.710 --> 00:50:31.489 care to the business district. And every year, 00:50:31.489 --> 00:50:34.469 we would get maybe a check for $20 ,000, $25 00:50:34.469 --> 00:50:36.829 ,000, which was a lot of money at that time, 00:50:36.909 --> 00:50:39.829 which went toward payroll and vehicle maintenance 00:50:39.829 --> 00:50:43.460 and supplies and things like that. So January 00:50:43.460 --> 00:50:47.360 of every year, we'd expected this money. January 00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:52.860 of 1975, we get a check for $5 ,000. We didn't 00:50:52.860 --> 00:50:56.219 get anything in February. We got another check 00:50:56.219 --> 00:51:01.079 in March. So what that did is it put us in a 00:51:01.079 --> 00:51:03.679 financial constraint where we had to reach out 00:51:03.679 --> 00:51:06.659 to different foundations and organizations for 00:51:06.659 --> 00:51:09.849 grants and donations and things like that. All 00:51:09.849 --> 00:51:13.429 the while behind the scenes, the city of Pittsburgh 00:51:13.429 --> 00:51:16.250 is buying new vehicles and new equipment and 00:51:16.250 --> 00:51:20.030 bringing in personnel to train them and things 00:51:20.030 --> 00:51:22.530 like that while we're struggling to stay afloat. 00:51:23.269 --> 00:51:28.309 So we had to make a decision. Do we continue 00:51:28.309 --> 00:51:32.590 to struggle on a day -to -day basis to try to 00:51:32.590 --> 00:51:37.050 stay afloat and beg from Peter to buy Paul and 00:51:37.050 --> 00:51:41.360 things like that? Or we just cut our losses and 00:51:41.360 --> 00:51:44.599 die a dignified death. And we chose to do that. 00:51:44.980 --> 00:51:50.119 So in October of 1975, we chose to cease operations, 00:51:50.699 --> 00:51:53.519 turn everything over to the city of Pittsburgh, 00:51:53.780 --> 00:51:57.099 and entered into a contract with them that they 00:51:57.099 --> 00:51:59.980 would take all the Freedom House's vehicles, 00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:02.639 they would take the equipment, they would take 00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:05.159 the personnel. We would not have to go through 00:52:05.159 --> 00:52:07.489 any additional training. And it was supposed 00:52:07.489 --> 00:52:12.110 to be a smooth transition. November of 75, we 00:52:12.110 --> 00:52:15.409 report to work. And what should have been a very 00:52:15.409 --> 00:52:17.909 smooth transition turned into be a very traumatic 00:52:17.909 --> 00:52:22.469 one. Despite the fact that we had a written agreement 00:52:22.469 --> 00:52:25.889 that we would not have to go through an additional 00:52:25.889 --> 00:52:28.250 training because we were all very trained by 00:52:28.250 --> 00:52:34.309 the best, our training was not accepted. In addition 00:52:34.309 --> 00:52:38.739 to that, We were put through situations where 00:52:38.739 --> 00:52:42.739 I would work 7 -3 today and I have to come back 00:52:42.739 --> 00:52:50.179 out at 11 o 'clock tonight. Or go through this 00:52:50.179 --> 00:52:52.659 testing. And we were tested on things that we 00:52:52.659 --> 00:52:58.500 had not been, that, you know, weren't sanctioned 00:52:58.500 --> 00:53:01.320 by our medical directors. But we still had to 00:53:01.320 --> 00:53:05.550 deal with it. And the goal at that time. despite 00:53:05.550 --> 00:53:08.570 the fact that we had an agreement, was to eliminate 00:53:08.570 --> 00:53:13.170 all of Freedom House's people. And it was very, 00:53:13.210 --> 00:53:16.929 very successful because 80 % of the people that 00:53:16.929 --> 00:53:20.710 came over from Freedom House were terminated 00:53:20.710 --> 00:53:23.269 or said, I don't need this household anymore. 00:53:23.670 --> 00:53:26.889 I'm out of here. Y 'all can have it. And there 00:53:26.889 --> 00:53:31.610 was only five of us that remained. And I happened 00:53:31.610 --> 00:53:36.929 to be one of the five. And the goal at that time, 00:53:37.030 --> 00:53:40.349 and it's interesting because you had mentioned 00:53:40.349 --> 00:53:43.489 you had never heard of Freedom House. And despite 00:53:43.489 --> 00:53:46.489 the fact that that saddens me, I understand the 00:53:46.489 --> 00:53:49.530 reason why. Because the goal was to eliminate 00:53:49.530 --> 00:53:52.369 any memory of it. And you do that by getting 00:53:52.369 --> 00:53:55.469 rid of the people. So if you eliminate the history 00:53:55.469 --> 00:53:58.650 makers, you essentially eliminate that part of 00:53:58.650 --> 00:54:01.880 history that they made. And that's what... Pittsburgh 00:54:01.880 --> 00:54:06.880 EMS at that particular time chose to do. So me 00:54:06.880 --> 00:54:11.139 being one of the few remaining people wasn't 00:54:11.139 --> 00:54:13.340 allowed to do anything, couldn't drive the truck, 00:54:13.519 --> 00:54:16.380 couldn't talk on the radio, couldn't examine 00:54:16.380 --> 00:54:18.960 patients. I was just relegated to the role of 00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:22.019 an observer, all in an attempt to frustrate me 00:54:22.019 --> 00:54:26.340 to say, okay, I've had enough. One day we went 00:54:26.340 --> 00:54:30.539 on a call with the crew that I was working with. 00:54:31.070 --> 00:54:33.269 And we walked into a person's home. The person 00:54:33.269 --> 00:54:35.090 was unconscious, not breathing, and didn't have 00:54:35.090 --> 00:54:36.849 a heartbeat, essentially, in cardiac arrest. 00:54:37.789 --> 00:54:39.849 And the crew that I was working with, they didn't 00:54:39.849 --> 00:54:43.829 know what to do. They panicked. So they looked 00:54:43.829 --> 00:54:45.849 at the person that wasn't allowed to do anything 00:54:45.849 --> 00:54:50.130 and said, you take over. So I said, okay, well, 00:54:50.210 --> 00:54:52.449 you start the IV. You put the person on the heart 00:54:52.449 --> 00:54:54.489 monitor. I'll do the trachea intubation. And 00:54:54.489 --> 00:54:56.869 we subsequently saved the person's life. And 00:54:56.869 --> 00:54:59.329 that was great. But it had to be kept quiet. 00:55:00.329 --> 00:55:04.909 because I wasn't allowed to do anything. So that 00:55:04.909 --> 00:55:08.250 put the responsibility or the onus on me. Do 00:55:08.250 --> 00:55:12.349 I remain to be this quiet, unnoticeable, reserved 00:55:12.349 --> 00:55:17.010 person? Or do I step up my game and become more 00:55:17.010 --> 00:55:21.449 outspoken? And I chose to do the latter. I chose 00:55:21.449 --> 00:55:24.829 to make sure that Pittsburgh EMS knew exactly 00:55:24.829 --> 00:55:28.449 who John Moon was. I started challenging the 00:55:28.449 --> 00:55:31.019 department. on his treatment of African Americans. 00:55:31.820 --> 00:55:34.440 The makeup of Pittsburgh EMS at that time was 00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:40.320 an all -white EMS system from the suburbs. So 00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:43.119 they came in with preconceived ideas on what 00:55:43.119 --> 00:55:45.280 it would be like coming from a suburban environment 00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:48.599 into an urban environment. It's the most dangerous 00:55:48.599 --> 00:55:52.440 place in the world. So I have to arm myself. 00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:55.059 So they brought with them knives and guns they 00:55:55.059 --> 00:55:57.340 kept in their cars and things. The ambulance 00:55:57.340 --> 00:56:01.309 had handcuffs on them. They had seven cell flashlights, 00:56:01.369 --> 00:56:03.469 not to find your way around in the dark, but 00:56:03.469 --> 00:56:05.730 to use as a weapon because I had to protect myself. 00:56:06.989 --> 00:56:09.469 I discovered that the paramedics were trained 00:56:09.469 --> 00:56:14.769 that people in underserved communities didn't 00:56:14.769 --> 00:56:17.530 have heart attacks and strokes. and diabetes. 00:56:17.849 --> 00:56:20.449 The only calls you would get would be domestic 00:56:20.449 --> 00:56:23.909 violence and drug overdoses and shootings. So 00:56:23.909 --> 00:56:26.050 before they went into an underserved community, 00:56:26.289 --> 00:56:28.150 they would wait on the outskirts and wait for 00:56:28.150 --> 00:56:31.789 the police to escort them in, which impacted 00:56:31.789 --> 00:56:34.710 response times. So I challenged the department 00:56:34.710 --> 00:56:40.230 on this training, and I got noticed. They started 00:56:40.230 --> 00:56:42.989 noticing who John Moon was, and I started getting 00:56:42.989 --> 00:56:46.480 promoted. And as I'm going up being promoted 00:56:46.480 --> 00:56:51.179 i noticed that the department had not hired anyone 00:56:51.179 --> 00:56:55.480 that looked like me pittsburgh ems went 10 years 00:56:55.480 --> 00:57:01.300 without hiring an african -american so i challenged 00:57:01.300 --> 00:57:04.619 the department on this hiring process okay it's 00:57:04.619 --> 00:57:07.059 your problem then you come up with solution for 00:57:07.059 --> 00:57:10.500 it so i designed the very first diversity recruitment 00:57:10.500 --> 00:57:13.139 program in the history of the city of pittsburgh 00:57:13.139 --> 00:57:17.500 really but was geared toward EMS. And I used 00:57:17.500 --> 00:57:19.599 the same format that we use at Freedom House. 00:57:19.960 --> 00:57:23.599 I went on to the community and recruited people 00:57:23.599 --> 00:57:26.360 that didn't know what an EMT was or a paramedic, 00:57:26.360 --> 00:57:28.920 had never talked to one, placed them into a training 00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:32.599 program, got the department to pay them a stipend 00:57:32.599 --> 00:57:34.179 or salary while they were going through their 00:57:34.179 --> 00:57:36.900 training. And once they completed the training, 00:57:37.059 --> 00:57:40.500 guaranteed them a job. Because I had invested 00:57:40.500 --> 00:57:42.559 this money into you. I wasn't going to let you 00:57:42.559 --> 00:57:45.980 go anyplace else. And that became the norm all 00:57:45.980 --> 00:57:48.260 while I was there. There was never an all -white 00:57:48.260 --> 00:57:53.559 class like there was in the past. I made sure 00:57:53.559 --> 00:57:55.880 they were racially balanced, whether they were 00:57:55.880 --> 00:57:59.739 black or white or male or female. And what I 00:57:59.739 --> 00:58:02.500 didn't notice at the time is I was sabotaging 00:58:02.500 --> 00:58:07.380 my own career. Pittsburgh EMS had what they call 00:58:07.380 --> 00:58:11.989 a next man up. promotional process so i had gotten 00:58:11.989 --> 00:58:14.269 to a point where i essentially ran the department 00:58:14.269 --> 00:58:18.309 i ran day -to -day operations my title was the 00:58:18.309 --> 00:58:21.530 chief supervisor i handled day -to -day operations 00:58:21.530 --> 00:58:26.130 uh hirings and terminations and complaints and 00:58:26.130 --> 00:58:30.469 and everything went across john moon's desk and 00:58:30.469 --> 00:58:36.829 what i discovered at that time is A promotion 00:58:36.829 --> 00:58:41.289 became available to the next position up. And 00:58:41.289 --> 00:58:44.730 so in my mind, well, we've always used the next 00:58:44.730 --> 00:58:47.570 man up, so I'm waiting for them to say, okay, 00:58:47.750 --> 00:58:53.710 you're the assistant chief now. I got passed 00:58:53.710 --> 00:58:56.670 over by a white male that I'd been his boss for 00:58:56.670 --> 00:59:04.329 15 years. And I was ordered to teach him my job 00:59:04.329 --> 00:59:09.460 duties. So they were all taken away from me and 00:59:09.460 --> 00:59:12.659 given to him, which made him eligible for the 00:59:12.659 --> 00:59:15.960 next promotion. So I was relegated to the role 00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:20.380 of teaching CPR and handling complaints. So, 00:59:20.480 --> 00:59:24.739 you know, I accepted that to a certain extent. 00:59:25.360 --> 00:59:27.900 And then another position became available, the 00:59:27.900 --> 00:59:31.079 position of deputy chief, and he automatically 00:59:31.079 --> 00:59:37.320 got promoted. And I said, wait a minute. going 00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:42.019 on here so i filed a lawsuit against the department 00:59:42.019 --> 00:59:44.440 for racial discrimination in their promotion 00:59:44.440 --> 00:59:49.519 process and you don't sue your boss and expect 00:59:49.519 --> 00:59:54.800 to live a happy life so the department made my 00:59:54.800 --> 01:00:01.400 my job a living hell i got ostracized i couldn't 01:00:01.400 --> 01:00:04.440 do anything the i had 10 supervisors when i was 01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:07.400 in charge they were all taken away. I wasn't 01:00:07.400 --> 01:00:10.280 allowed to tell them. They couldn't even speak 01:00:10.280 --> 01:00:15.119 to me, essentially. So I had to make a decision 01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:19.320 at that time. Do I stay and show you how tough 01:00:19.320 --> 01:00:27.559 I am, or do I cut my losses and leave? And part 01:00:27.559 --> 01:00:31.300 of the agreement in this lawsuit was that I was 01:00:31.300 --> 01:00:34.820 forced to retire. So I left Pittsburgh EMS in 01:00:34.820 --> 01:00:40.159 2009 after 34 years with the department. Going 01:00:40.159 --> 01:00:46.579 off in a happy life, and I had two reckonings 01:00:46.579 --> 01:00:50.719 that I had to come to grips with. The first one 01:00:50.719 --> 01:00:55.380 was, no matter what I did, how good I was, what 01:00:55.380 --> 01:00:58.500 I created or designed, I was never going to be 01:00:58.500 --> 01:01:01.340 promoted into a position to run the department. 01:01:02.800 --> 01:01:05.239 because it was designed to prevent that from 01:01:05.239 --> 01:01:09.539 happening. The second reckoning I had to come 01:01:09.539 --> 01:01:11.760 to grips with is that wasn't why I was there. 01:01:12.579 --> 01:01:15.699 I wasn't there to rise up through the ranks and 01:01:15.699 --> 01:01:20.719 run Pittsburgh EMS. My job was to open doors 01:01:20.719 --> 01:01:23.059 and break down hurdles and barriers that when 01:01:23.059 --> 01:01:25.519 people that look like me came behind me, they 01:01:25.519 --> 01:01:30.519 would have an opportunity. So I go off into retirement. 01:01:31.469 --> 01:01:34.710 The city of Pittsburgh elects its first African 01:01:34.710 --> 01:01:39.769 -American mayor in the history of the city. And 01:01:39.769 --> 01:01:43.849 he's a guy that I had worked with during my diversity 01:01:43.849 --> 01:01:46.730 recruitment program. So he knew of the hurdles 01:01:46.730 --> 01:01:49.690 and the barriers that I had to overcome because, 01:01:49.789 --> 01:01:52.230 you know, you're trying to diversify the department. 01:01:52.449 --> 01:01:55.250 You're going to get a lot of pushback. And I 01:01:55.250 --> 01:02:00.510 did. And so he knew firsthand what it was like. 01:02:00.969 --> 01:02:05.190 So he comes in and starts, you know, looking 01:02:05.190 --> 01:02:08.429 at all different departments. And he looks at 01:02:08.429 --> 01:02:11.489 Pittsburgh UMass and he sees an African -American 01:02:11.489 --> 01:02:16.610 who had attained the rank of deputy chief at 01:02:16.610 --> 01:02:20.769 that time. And he tells the chief, who has always 01:02:20.769 --> 01:02:25.070 been a white male, we're going in a different 01:02:25.070 --> 01:02:29.329 direction. You need to retire. So he promotes 01:02:29.329 --> 01:02:33.309 the very first African -American chief of Pittsburgh 01:02:33.309 --> 01:02:35.550 EMS in the 50 -year history of the department. 01:02:36.510 --> 01:02:41.289 And it's an African -American female. And it's 01:02:41.289 --> 01:02:44.489 interesting because she's someone that I hired 01:02:44.489 --> 01:02:49.369 during my diversity recruitment program. So I'm 01:02:49.369 --> 01:02:54.150 no longer there, but my legacy still lives through 01:02:54.150 --> 01:02:58.880 her. So she comes in and creates. a Freedom House 01:02:58.880 --> 01:03:03.340 EMT Academy inside of Pittsburgh EMS. And she 01:03:03.340 --> 01:03:05.679 does the same thing. She goes out in the community 01:03:05.679 --> 01:03:09.460 and recruits people and places them into a training 01:03:09.460 --> 01:03:14.199 program and pays them and hires them. If they 01:03:14.199 --> 01:03:17.860 want to become advanced EMTs, she takes them 01:03:17.860 --> 01:03:20.739 off the trucks and puts them in training and 01:03:20.739 --> 01:03:23.420 pay them while they're going through training. 01:03:23.559 --> 01:03:25.739 If they want to become paramedics, takes them 01:03:25.739 --> 01:03:27.829 off the truck. They're still getting paid while 01:03:27.829 --> 01:03:29.110 they're going through the paramedic training. 01:03:29.829 --> 01:03:39.150 And so my legacy is still there. And even though, 01:03:39.150 --> 01:03:45.110 like I mentioned, you and I are sitting here 01:03:45.110 --> 01:03:49.550 having this conversation, it's not necessarily 01:03:49.550 --> 01:03:54.190 about me as an individual so much as it is about 01:03:54.190 --> 01:03:58.389 a group of visionaries who saw a need in an underserved 01:03:58.389 --> 01:04:04.230 community, and they took that need to another 01:04:04.230 --> 01:04:07.929 visionary who gave that vision to a group of 01:04:07.929 --> 01:04:10.889 creative changemakers, which are the paramedics 01:04:10.889 --> 01:04:13.250 at Freedom House Ambulance Service, who took 01:04:13.250 --> 01:04:17.289 that vision out to the world. And born out of 01:04:17.289 --> 01:04:21.469 that was the foundation of every EMS system that 01:04:21.469 --> 01:04:27.679 you see today. The training. The vehicle design 01:04:27.679 --> 01:04:35.079 is interesting because the world right now, this 01:04:35.079 --> 01:04:38.360 country has an opioid crisis. And the drug of 01:04:38.360 --> 01:04:42.039 choice to treat it is Naloxone or Narcan. And 01:04:42.039 --> 01:04:46.960 so everybody has this new drug, this wonder drug. 01:04:47.199 --> 01:04:49.679 But what people don't realize is we administered 01:04:49.679 --> 01:04:54.000 Narcan back in 1973. We were the very first to 01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:55.760 take it out of the operating room because it 01:04:55.760 --> 01:04:59.739 was primarily used to bring people out of anesthesia 01:04:59.739 --> 01:05:02.699 out into the field to treat heroin overdoses. 01:05:03.380 --> 01:05:09.940 So all of this stuff is not new. And like you 01:05:09.940 --> 01:05:13.760 said, the history of EMS didn't begin in Jacksonville 01:05:13.760 --> 01:05:17.519 or Seattle or Los Angeles or Miami. It began 01:05:17.519 --> 01:05:20.260 right here in Pittsburgh's Hill District by a 01:05:20.260 --> 01:05:26.070 group of... black men that society deemed least 01:05:26.070 --> 01:05:32.809 likely to succeed. Unemployable. And when I think 01:05:32.809 --> 01:05:35.070 about that, I often think that society made one 01:05:35.070 --> 01:05:39.550 mistake. They didn't tell us. So we were living 01:05:39.550 --> 01:05:42.349 in the moment, providing pre -hospital care to 01:05:42.349 --> 01:05:44.969 this underserved community. And that's what was 01:05:44.969 --> 01:05:49.789 born out of all those efforts. And it was out 01:05:49.789 --> 01:05:53.119 of the... the disappointments and the frustrations 01:05:53.119 --> 01:05:58.159 and the broken promises and the setbacks to create 01:05:58.159 --> 01:06:00.940 a system that we all take for granted today that's 01:06:00.940 --> 01:06:03.840 glorified on television. That's the legacy that 01:06:03.840 --> 01:06:07.719 Freedom House Ambulance Service has. And their 01:06:07.719 --> 01:06:09.900 inception, was it 69, have I got that right, 01:06:09.940 --> 01:06:13.860 or was it earlier? 67. 67, okay, just so that 01:06:13.860 --> 01:06:15.840 we kind of timestamp exactly when this happened. 01:06:16.059 --> 01:06:20.400 67 to 1975. And then to underline the level of 01:06:20.400 --> 01:06:22.960 training that you had in 67, correct me if I'm 01:06:22.960 --> 01:06:25.880 wrong, but wasn't Dr. Peter Saffer the creator 01:06:25.880 --> 01:06:29.320 of CPR as well? Absolutely. We were the first 01:06:29.320 --> 01:06:33.219 to take it out of the hospital setting, out into 01:06:33.219 --> 01:06:37.159 the field to use it on people in cardiac arrest. 01:06:38.199 --> 01:06:42.340 Now, you know, it's used worldwide. What about 01:06:42.340 --> 01:06:45.119 the mannequin? I'm curious. In the late 60s, 01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:47.559 early 70s, what did Rassassiani look like back 01:06:47.559 --> 01:06:52.679 then? Believe it or not, he actually designed 01:06:52.679 --> 01:06:56.440 Rissassa Annie. Oh, really? Yes. Yes, he did. 01:06:56.639 --> 01:07:01.059 And it was somewhat modeled after his daughter, 01:07:01.179 --> 01:07:05.380 who died at a very young age from asthma. And 01:07:05.380 --> 01:07:10.480 it's interesting because you call them mannequins, 01:07:10.500 --> 01:07:14.219 and because everything you do has to be manually 01:07:14.219 --> 01:07:18.869 done to this. whatever you want to call it, dummy, 01:07:19.030 --> 01:07:23.269 for lack of a better term. Now you have mannequins 01:07:23.269 --> 01:07:25.429 that breathe for themselves, that have blood 01:07:25.429 --> 01:07:30.489 pressures, and you have video tracheal intubations, 01:07:30.510 --> 01:07:33.469 you have stretchers that lift themselves, and 01:07:33.469 --> 01:07:38.110 the life packs are two or three pounds. Ours 01:07:38.110 --> 01:07:42.349 weighed roughly about 50 pounds back then. So 01:07:42.349 --> 01:07:45.110 we were the very first to transmit an EKG from 01:07:45.110 --> 01:07:48.050 the field. back to the emergency room and consult 01:07:48.050 --> 01:07:51.989 with the ER doctor. It's funny you say that. 01:07:52.030 --> 01:07:55.070 I had the LifePak 12 early in my career, and 01:07:55.070 --> 01:07:58.030 then the LifePak 15, I swear, was twice the weight. 01:07:58.130 --> 01:08:00.309 So they got lighter and lighter until whatever 01:08:00.309 --> 01:08:02.309 that new technology was, and they went back to 01:08:02.309 --> 01:08:07.590 the 60s, I think. That's amazing. That's really 01:08:07.590 --> 01:08:16.210 interesting because oftentimes... I see EMS systems 01:08:16.210 --> 01:08:20.050 all the time on a day -to -day basis, and I wonder, 01:08:20.130 --> 01:08:24.569 do you all really have a clue as to where this 01:08:24.569 --> 01:08:28.850 career path began? And the answer to that question, 01:08:28.930 --> 01:08:34.270 98 % of the time, is no, they really don't. Like 01:08:34.270 --> 01:08:37.529 we were talking about earlier, in their mind, 01:08:38.729 --> 01:08:41.770 It was created in Jacksonville, Seattle or Los 01:08:41.770 --> 01:08:45.729 Angeles or Miami because this part of history 01:08:45.729 --> 01:08:49.869 has been kind of brushed under the table or under 01:08:49.869 --> 01:08:56.090 the rug intentionally by the political powers 01:08:56.090 --> 01:09:00.329 at that time, namely within the city of Pittsburgh, 01:09:00.550 --> 01:09:06.529 EMS. And I wanted to be known that I'm not this 01:09:06.529 --> 01:09:11.510 disgruntled. former retired assistant chief of 01:09:11.510 --> 01:09:14.270 Pittsburgh EMS. I love the department. I love 01:09:14.270 --> 01:09:15.850 the people that work there. And it will always 01:09:15.850 --> 01:09:18.189 have a special place in my heart. But we're talking 01:09:18.189 --> 01:09:20.869 about different timeframes at that particular 01:09:20.869 --> 01:09:24.210 time. And the goal of the department was to erase 01:09:24.210 --> 01:09:26.689 any mention of Freedom House Ambulance Service. 01:09:27.489 --> 01:09:29.770 Well, I think Nikolai Tesla is a good example 01:09:29.770 --> 01:09:32.250 of, you know, when someone innovates and then 01:09:32.250 --> 01:09:34.710 someone like Edison just comes along and steals 01:09:34.710 --> 01:09:37.760 their ideas and rewrites history. You're absolutely 01:09:37.760 --> 01:09:41.699 correct. And that's exactly what's going on now, 01:09:41.960 --> 01:09:46.020 which kind of motivates me to make sure that 01:09:46.020 --> 01:09:48.520 this part of history is brought back into the 01:09:48.520 --> 01:09:52.079 forefront where it belongs. I mentioned earlier 01:09:52.079 --> 01:09:55.560 the first paramedic textbook, Emergency Care 01:09:55.560 --> 01:10:00.739 in the Streets. We wrote it with the... Help 01:10:00.739 --> 01:10:03.039 of Dr. Nancy Caroline, our medical director at 01:10:03.039 --> 01:10:06.140 that time. And as more and more editions are 01:10:06.140 --> 01:10:10.560 being printed, Freedom House, they talk about 01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:13.420 how great the systems are in Miami and Los Angeles 01:10:13.420 --> 01:10:16.500 and Jacksonville and Seattle. And they talk about 01:10:16.500 --> 01:10:22.020 Freedom House. And they say we were a group of 01:10:22.020 --> 01:10:24.000 black men that didn't have an opportunity to 01:10:24.000 --> 01:10:27.460 get a high school education. And that's it. But 01:10:27.460 --> 01:10:30.609 we wrote the book. So those are the things that 01:10:30.609 --> 01:10:33.449 kind of motivate me. So right now I've been in 01:10:33.449 --> 01:10:35.529 touch with the publisher. I've had a couple of 01:10:35.529 --> 01:10:38.890 organizations that reached out to the publishers 01:10:38.890 --> 01:10:41.710 to put that part of history back in there. And 01:10:41.710 --> 01:10:47.789 the EMT manual, 13th edition, I believe, has 01:10:47.789 --> 01:10:50.630 part of the history of Freedom House put back 01:10:50.630 --> 01:10:55.510 into it in its rightful place. As it should. 01:10:56.600 --> 01:10:59.699 You mentioned about the opioid crisis. An interesting 01:10:59.699 --> 01:11:03.439 education that I've had on this show from all 01:11:03.439 --> 01:11:05.220 the great minds, especially on the addiction 01:11:05.220 --> 01:11:07.939 side, I just had Gabor Mate on the show, for 01:11:07.939 --> 01:11:12.579 example, is when you look at the predatory actions 01:11:12.579 --> 01:11:17.859 of Purdue Pharma and OxyContin, there was a direct 01:11:17.859 --> 01:11:21.899 targeting of a lot of the cities that had industry, 01:11:22.119 --> 01:11:23.800 whether it was the steel mills, as you alluded 01:11:23.800 --> 01:11:27.279 to earlier, or the mines. And now there was a 01:11:27.279 --> 01:11:29.460 void, a void of industry. There was obviously 01:11:29.460 --> 01:11:33.920 injuries from those professions themselves. And 01:11:33.920 --> 01:11:36.399 the same with the cartels that followed after 01:11:36.399 --> 01:11:38.460 the pill mills were all closed down. They preyed 01:11:38.460 --> 01:11:41.699 upon them as well. You have a very powerful lens 01:11:41.699 --> 01:11:45.159 on this whole crisis. What has been your perspective 01:11:45.159 --> 01:11:49.319 on the opioid crisis and the impact that it's 01:11:49.319 --> 01:11:54.899 had on your city? It's at an epidemic proportion. 01:11:55.550 --> 01:12:03.449 Right now, unfortunately. Really, back then, 01:12:03.649 --> 01:12:07.909 you have a variety of different drugs nowadays. 01:12:08.449 --> 01:12:13.430 In the 60s and 70s, all you had primarily was 01:12:13.430 --> 01:12:19.989 heroin in your underserved communities. And so, 01:12:20.029 --> 01:12:26.699 really... There's been a transitioning, unfortunately, 01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:33.600 not for the better, to the point where the use 01:12:33.600 --> 01:12:38.960 of Narcan is kind of, and I'm not necessarily 01:12:38.960 --> 01:12:43.279 being critical, but it's being given haphazardly, 01:12:43.279 --> 01:12:49.239 for lack of a better term. When we treated... 01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:53.439 at Freedom House, none of our patients woke up. 01:12:54.460 --> 01:12:59.880 And that was by design. We kind of titrated it 01:12:59.880 --> 01:13:03.039 in an IV and gave you a little bit at a time 01:13:03.039 --> 01:13:05.239 until we could get you from the emergency, from 01:13:05.239 --> 01:13:08.439 your home or wherever we found you, to the emergency 01:13:08.439 --> 01:13:11.520 room in a more controlled environment. So we 01:13:11.520 --> 01:13:13.619 kind of made sure that we had control of the 01:13:13.619 --> 01:13:17.579 patient. Because if you wake up, you either want 01:13:17.579 --> 01:13:20.239 to jump out of the vehicle, want to beat up the 01:13:20.239 --> 01:13:23.220 healthcare provider because I just went too high 01:13:23.220 --> 01:13:26.079 and things like that. We didn't have that problem. 01:13:26.399 --> 01:13:30.340 So by design, we kept you in a more confused 01:13:30.340 --> 01:13:33.600 day state until we could get you into a controlled 01:13:33.600 --> 01:13:36.100 environment that we didn't have to worry about 01:13:36.100 --> 01:13:39.800 our own personal safety. So nowadays, obviously, 01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:44.960 for whatever the reason, it's... we seem to think 01:13:44.960 --> 01:13:47.220 that Narcan isn't working until the person wakes 01:13:47.220 --> 01:13:50.260 up and runs off. And unfortunately, it wears 01:13:50.260 --> 01:13:53.199 off and you're right back where you started from. 01:13:53.420 --> 01:13:58.300 So, you know, it has gotten worse over time, 01:13:58.500 --> 01:14:02.720 unfortunately, because the manufacturing of different 01:14:02.720 --> 01:14:06.819 types of drugs. I was working for the city of 01:14:06.819 --> 01:14:09.460 Pittsburgh when the fentanyl crisis began here 01:14:09.460 --> 01:14:14.760 in Pittsburgh. I was the... uh drugs are for 01:14:14.760 --> 01:14:18.479 lack of a better term uh for the department and 01:14:18.479 --> 01:14:22.180 i ended up having to testify in federal court 01:14:22.180 --> 01:14:25.979 against the manufacturer of fentanyl at that 01:14:25.979 --> 01:14:29.439 particular time about you know the financial 01:14:29.439 --> 01:14:34.600 burden that it presented for the public safety 01:14:34.600 --> 01:14:40.340 arena When you titrated to effect, were you getting 01:14:40.340 --> 01:14:42.939 the respiratory drive to return or were you bagging 01:14:42.939 --> 01:14:46.659 the patient still? Combination of both. Yeah, 01:14:46.699 --> 01:14:50.340 combination of both. I kind of gauge your respiratory 01:14:50.340 --> 01:14:54.180 rate as a gauge. If it remains slow, then I would 01:14:54.180 --> 01:14:58.220 actually give you a little bit more. And obviously, 01:14:58.399 --> 01:15:02.140 if your breathing returned to normal, I kind 01:15:02.140 --> 01:15:05.760 of cut it off and kind of kept you in that confused 01:15:05.760 --> 01:15:09.880 state. My goal was to maintain control of you 01:15:09.880 --> 01:15:13.039 as an individual. I mean, if you stop breathing, 01:15:13.140 --> 01:15:16.720 big deal. I mean, I can control that. That may 01:15:16.720 --> 01:15:22.399 sound a little cold, but yeah. But yeah, so our 01:15:22.399 --> 01:15:25.119 goal was to control the patient under those conditions 01:15:25.119 --> 01:15:29.039 because we knew that our personal safety was 01:15:29.039 --> 01:15:33.699 kind of in jeopardy once we brought you out of 01:15:33.699 --> 01:15:39.579 your... unconsciousness, you'd get upset. What 01:15:39.579 --> 01:15:41.819 is your perspective on the success of the war 01:15:41.819 --> 01:15:45.039 on drugs? I've had so many people on here, and 01:15:45.039 --> 01:15:48.279 there are countries like Portugal that basically 01:15:48.279 --> 01:15:50.739 realized that that model wasn't working, the 01:15:50.739 --> 01:15:53.840 criminalization of addiction specifically. And 01:15:53.840 --> 01:15:56.979 now in Portugal, if you're an addict, with the 01:15:56.979 --> 01:15:59.159 user's amount that you're caught with, you're 01:15:59.159 --> 01:16:03.170 basically given... an interview for lack of a 01:16:03.170 --> 01:16:05.670 better word and told all the resources that are 01:16:05.670 --> 01:16:07.770 available to you you know addiction counseling 01:16:07.770 --> 01:16:10.689 mental health counseling job creation housing 01:16:10.689 --> 01:16:14.229 because they realize that it's not the drug that 01:16:14.229 --> 01:16:17.170 just suddenly hooked into a mentally you know 01:16:17.170 --> 01:16:19.729 perfect person it's someone who's already struggling 01:16:19.729 --> 01:16:23.189 that's using that drug to fill a void So they 01:16:23.189 --> 01:16:26.569 went to a very proactive health -based system 01:16:26.569 --> 01:16:29.189 and they went from the highest level addiction 01:16:29.189 --> 01:16:32.670 to the lowest in less than eight years as a country. 01:16:32.789 --> 01:16:36.109 So super progressive. As a paramedic myself, 01:16:36.270 --> 01:16:39.649 as a firefighter for 14 years, I witnessed that 01:16:39.649 --> 01:16:42.609 downward spiral just in that short time, not 01:16:42.609 --> 01:16:45.090 to mention the sex work and the gang membership 01:16:45.090 --> 01:16:47.649 and the homelessness and obviously the overdoses. 01:16:48.539 --> 01:16:50.720 So for me, you know, my own perspective is the 01:16:50.720 --> 01:16:52.600 way that we're doing doesn't work. And I think 01:16:52.600 --> 01:16:54.979 a Portuguese model, for example, that doesn't 01:16:54.979 --> 01:16:56.560 mean that you don't arrest the smugglers and 01:16:56.560 --> 01:16:58.579 the dealers. You absolutely do. And then if you're 01:16:58.579 --> 01:17:00.159 an addict and you beat someone up, you've got 01:17:00.159 --> 01:17:02.899 to pay. You know, that's still a crime. But putting 01:17:02.899 --> 01:17:05.020 addiction in the hands of the medical community 01:17:05.020 --> 01:17:08.579 and healing that person, especially when, like 01:17:08.579 --> 01:17:11.520 I said, it's being targeted in communities where 01:17:11.520 --> 01:17:13.460 industry was there and then it left. And now 01:17:13.460 --> 01:17:16.619 you had homelessness and poverty. I'm sorry. 01:17:18.659 --> 01:17:20.960 loss of jobs, excuse me, and poverty, which of 01:17:20.960 --> 01:17:23.140 course could lead to homelessness as well. That 01:17:23.140 --> 01:17:25.840 is my perception. But with this, you know, multi 01:17:25.840 --> 01:17:28.520 -decade perspective that you've got, you know, 01:17:28.520 --> 01:17:30.840 is the way that we're doing now working? And 01:17:30.840 --> 01:17:33.000 what would be your suggestions if there was any 01:17:33.000 --> 01:17:41.000 change? Well, I think the model in Portugal should 01:17:41.000 --> 01:17:49.289 transition into the U .S. Unfortunately, as perhaps 01:17:49.289 --> 01:17:52.850 a country as well as communities. And I know 01:17:52.850 --> 01:17:57.369 in municipal government, we are reactive as opposed 01:17:57.369 --> 01:18:04.470 to being proactive. So I think if you build a 01:18:04.470 --> 01:18:08.989 reactionary model, you're able to get ahead of 01:18:08.989 --> 01:18:13.329 the problem before it becomes an epidemic. And 01:18:13.329 --> 01:18:18.500 unfortunately, that's not the mindset of the 01:18:18.500 --> 01:18:21.380 powers to be, for lack of a better term. We'll 01:18:21.380 --> 01:18:23.220 more or less wait for something to happen or 01:18:23.220 --> 01:18:28.020 wait for an epidemic to occur. And then we become 01:18:28.020 --> 01:18:35.920 reactionary to it. So I think the goal to really 01:18:35.920 --> 01:18:39.579 gain control of something is to be proactive 01:18:39.579 --> 01:18:43.880 as opposed to reactive. And unfortunately, common 01:18:43.880 --> 01:18:47.050 sense approaches, reactionary. as opposed to 01:18:47.050 --> 01:18:51.430 being proactive. So I'm a big proponent of being 01:18:51.430 --> 01:18:54.670 proactive. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. 01:18:54.949 --> 01:18:57.430 You mentioned also about the mentorship program 01:18:57.430 --> 01:19:00.050 that you have, reaching into these underserved 01:19:00.050 --> 01:19:03.010 populations. And coming into the fire service, 01:19:03.270 --> 01:19:06.350 2002 is pretty much when I took my first step 01:19:06.350 --> 01:19:09.699 in as far as the training. You hear this conversation 01:19:09.699 --> 01:19:13.779 of affirmative action and they just needed 20 01:19:13.779 --> 01:19:15.739 black guys. So they went out there and got them. 01:19:15.840 --> 01:19:18.600 And there were so many white people that were 01:19:18.600 --> 01:19:20.680 actually better qualified. And then as you progress 01:19:20.680 --> 01:19:22.680 through your career, you see, okay, there's an 01:19:22.680 --> 01:19:24.920 element of truth in that in some departments. 01:19:25.100 --> 01:19:28.039 And that's the wrong way of hiring anyone. Because 01:19:28.039 --> 01:19:29.939 as you said, it needs to be the right person 01:19:29.939 --> 01:19:32.039 who's got the heart for the job, who's got the 01:19:32.039 --> 01:19:35.100 technical aptitude. But there is no question 01:19:35.100 --> 01:19:36.859 that there are a lot of communities, certainly, 01:19:36.979 --> 01:19:40.380 as you mentioned, 20, 30, 40 years ago, that 01:19:40.380 --> 01:19:42.560 simply didn't have an opportunity. And to this 01:19:42.560 --> 01:19:45.619 day, fire school is not cheap. EMT and paramedic 01:19:45.619 --> 01:19:48.920 school aren't cheap. I had to work side jobs 01:19:48.920 --> 01:19:50.859 all night through all of mine. My own department 01:19:50.859 --> 01:19:53.000 didn't even support me in paramedic school. So 01:19:53.000 --> 01:19:55.020 I had to go to a different school and then run 01:19:55.020 --> 01:19:57.000 with a different department whilst I was doing 01:19:57.000 --> 01:20:02.260 56 -hour work weeks. So I get it. And I think 01:20:02.260 --> 01:20:05.060 that what I've seen locally here, one of my friends, 01:20:05.140 --> 01:20:07.359 Chris Hickman, stood up a mentorship program. 01:20:07.899 --> 01:20:11.279 There's a station in the middle of town, and 01:20:11.279 --> 01:20:13.359 as long as the kids can physically get there, 01:20:13.439 --> 01:20:15.939 and it's closer to the less affluent areas too, 01:20:16.119 --> 01:20:18.659 as long as they can get there, they give them 01:20:18.659 --> 01:20:23.000 training several times a week. There are scholarships 01:20:23.000 --> 01:20:25.680 for Fire Academy. There are certainly local departments 01:20:25.680 --> 01:20:28.779 waiting to hire on the back end, but it's a beautiful 01:20:28.779 --> 01:20:32.819 system because you've got three results. One, 01:20:32.899 --> 01:20:35.640 that you find someone of whatever, you know, 01:20:35.659 --> 01:20:38.300 diverse background that was underserved, who 01:20:38.300 --> 01:20:40.579 is the perfect fit. And they rise to the bar 01:20:40.579 --> 01:20:42.640 and they end up being a phenomenal firefighter 01:20:42.640 --> 01:20:45.560 and an EMT or a paramedic. You have the other 01:20:45.560 --> 01:20:47.760 side of the coin where they try it and they go, 01:20:47.840 --> 01:20:50.100 wow, that's not for me, actually. That's a huge 01:20:50.100 --> 01:20:52.659 win as well, because now you haven't wasted their 01:20:52.659 --> 01:20:54.500 time. You haven't wasted a department's time. 01:20:54.739 --> 01:20:57.300 And you've given that that child still leaves 01:20:57.300 --> 01:20:59.140 with a certain skill set, even if they don't 01:20:59.140 --> 01:21:02.130 become a first responder. And then you obviously 01:21:02.130 --> 01:21:04.470 have the middle where I think I like this, but 01:21:04.470 --> 01:21:06.430 I'm not ready yet, or I need to go back and do 01:21:06.430 --> 01:21:10.130 more work, also a huge win. But then whatever 01:21:10.130 --> 01:21:12.970 that minority air quotes that you're looking 01:21:12.970 --> 01:21:16.489 for, you've reached into those areas, you've 01:21:16.489 --> 01:21:20.470 empowered them to wear the uniform, but you've 01:21:20.470 --> 01:21:22.710 also challenged them to reach the bar rather 01:21:22.710 --> 01:21:26.659 than the... arguably more often than not misconception 01:21:26.659 --> 01:21:29.720 of just handing out jobs. But then they go through 01:21:29.720 --> 01:21:31.779 the same crucible and they become a phenomenal 01:21:31.779 --> 01:21:36.279 first responder. So I'm a huge, huge fan of mentorship 01:21:36.279 --> 01:21:39.880 programs from a socio -economical point and obviously 01:21:39.880 --> 01:21:43.640 a diversity point as well. So talk to me about 01:21:43.640 --> 01:21:46.199 your model and how can that be applied throughout 01:21:46.199 --> 01:21:50.020 the country? Well, that's a great point because 01:21:50.020 --> 01:21:58.289 here in Pittsburgh, we have the freedom house 01:21:58.289 --> 01:22:01.489 emt academy which is part of the city of pittsburgh 01:22:01.489 --> 01:22:04.670 emergency medical services component and we also 01:22:04.670 --> 01:22:11.569 have a community freedom house 2 .0 program which 01:22:11.569 --> 01:22:17.770 is funded by one of the health care facilities 01:22:17.770 --> 01:22:24.430 upmc and workforce development where We go into 01:22:24.430 --> 01:22:29.069 underserved communities and recruit people and 01:22:29.069 --> 01:22:37.310 put them in an EMT program and or a healthcare 01:22:37.310 --> 01:22:41.069 environment and allow them to make the decision 01:22:41.069 --> 01:22:45.130 as to which route they want to go to. That's 01:22:45.130 --> 01:22:48.350 been very, very, very successful to the point 01:22:48.350 --> 01:22:51.069 that it is now expanded into three different 01:22:51.069 --> 01:22:55.939 cities. Pennsylvania under the name of Freedom 01:22:55.939 --> 01:23:04.600 House 2 .0. So that mindset is still there. And 01:23:04.600 --> 01:23:09.079 it's just a mere fact that when I kind of embarked 01:23:09.079 --> 01:23:14.739 on this vision 10, 12 years ago, I didn't imagine 01:23:14.739 --> 01:23:20.550 that it was going to magnify itself the way It 01:23:20.550 --> 01:23:23.649 did. It's created a life of its own now. So now 01:23:23.649 --> 01:23:31.689 we have three different programs going to three 01:23:31.689 --> 01:23:33.729 different EMT programs in three different cities 01:23:33.729 --> 01:23:37.729 under the name of Freedom House. And that's a 01:23:37.729 --> 01:23:40.770 very, very proud accomplishment. Not that I'm 01:23:40.770 --> 01:23:43.909 taking credit for it, but it's a matter of someone 01:23:43.909 --> 01:23:50.770 had to step up and open the eyes of... society, 01:23:50.810 --> 01:23:53.710 for lack of a better term. And one of the things 01:23:53.710 --> 01:23:56.989 that I like to do when I travel is I like to 01:23:56.989 --> 01:24:01.250 impress on different EMS systems around the country 01:24:01.250 --> 01:24:06.189 to start kind of reinvesting into the communities 01:24:06.189 --> 01:24:11.569 in which they serve. Because what I found out 01:24:11.569 --> 01:24:16.310 is that there's a EMT shortage or paramedic shortage 01:24:16.310 --> 01:24:19.430 and lack of diversity and things like that because 01:24:19.430 --> 01:24:21.989 we have developed that us versus them type of 01:24:21.989 --> 01:24:25.750 mentality. So if we start reinvesting back into 01:24:25.750 --> 01:24:28.350 the communities in which you serve, you will 01:24:28.350 --> 01:24:32.090 be able to solve those problems because I know 01:24:32.090 --> 01:24:34.890 it works because that's what I did when I worked 01:24:34.890 --> 01:24:38.090 for the city of Pittsburgh. So I try to encourage 01:24:38.090 --> 01:24:41.689 EMS systems across the country to start reinvesting 01:24:41.689 --> 01:24:46.720 in the communities. go to job fairs and community 01:24:46.720 --> 01:24:51.180 centers and go out and teach CPR and bring a 01:24:51.180 --> 01:24:55.100 truck on community day and stuff like that and 01:24:55.100 --> 01:24:58.859 make yourself known to the community because 01:24:58.859 --> 01:25:02.699 that's where your allies are. And it's interesting 01:25:02.699 --> 01:25:08.380 because some years ago we had a financial burden 01:25:08.380 --> 01:25:12.100 here in the city of Pittsburgh and the city tried 01:25:12.100 --> 01:25:17.569 to I solved that by closing fire stations. And 01:25:17.569 --> 01:25:22.489 the community came out against it and forced 01:25:22.489 --> 01:25:27.229 the city to not close these fire stations. And 01:25:27.229 --> 01:25:31.989 so the city says, okay, well, the community won't 01:25:31.989 --> 01:25:34.609 let us close fire stations. So they looked at 01:25:34.609 --> 01:25:39.850 EMS and eliminated the EMT component. because 01:25:39.850 --> 01:25:42.609 we had a dual response system at that time. So 01:25:42.609 --> 01:25:47.710 they looked at EMS and eliminated the EMT department 01:25:47.710 --> 01:25:53.470 within Pittsburgh EMS because there was no opposition 01:25:53.470 --> 01:25:58.770 to it whatsoever. So the goal is to get back 01:25:58.770 --> 01:26:01.850 out there and let people know that you exist 01:26:01.850 --> 01:26:04.390 and you'd be surprised how much support you'll 01:26:04.390 --> 01:26:09.800 get. You know, what's crazy is for, Pretty much 01:26:09.800 --> 01:26:11.800 the length of this podcast, so almost 10 years 01:26:11.800 --> 01:26:14.880 now, nine and a half years. One of the big things 01:26:14.880 --> 01:26:17.500 that I've been trying to get people to understand 01:26:17.500 --> 01:26:20.859 is the false economy of the way we do things. 01:26:21.000 --> 01:26:24.739 So if we look at a macro level, we had this massive 01:26:24.739 --> 01:26:28.039 pandemic sweep across the nation and, well, the 01:26:28.039 --> 01:26:30.680 country, the world, but our nation as well. And 01:26:30.680 --> 01:26:34.439 when you emerge from that, again, like our conversation 01:26:34.439 --> 01:26:36.659 with racism post -World War II, when you emerge 01:26:36.659 --> 01:26:40.579 from a pandemic, Let's say early 2000, you're 01:26:40.579 --> 01:26:42.039 going to be like, well, at least at the end of 01:26:42.039 --> 01:26:43.920 this, early 2020, excuse me, at least at the 01:26:43.920 --> 01:26:46.439 end of this, we're going to understand how important 01:26:46.439 --> 01:26:49.819 it is to make our nation healthy. And as we sit 01:26:49.819 --> 01:26:53.939 here in 2026, none of that messaging came through. 01:26:54.439 --> 01:26:56.840 And this is what's so crazy is, you know, in 01:26:56.840 --> 01:27:00.359 for fire service, if you invest in the healthy 01:27:00.359 --> 01:27:02.699 work week, so the four shift system that a lot 01:27:02.699 --> 01:27:04.840 of the Northeast already has, the rest of the 01:27:04.840 --> 01:27:08.060 country doesn't, you will attract. These young 01:27:08.060 --> 01:27:10.340 people back into your profession and you will 01:27:10.340 --> 01:27:12.539 have a healthy, happy fire service with another 01:27:12.539 --> 01:27:16.800 entire shift as to use as resources. And, you 01:27:16.800 --> 01:27:18.699 know, again, then you add in mentorship programs, 01:27:18.819 --> 01:27:21.739 you're tapping into all these communities that, 01:27:21.840 --> 01:27:24.359 you know, like you said, depending on which turn 01:27:24.359 --> 01:27:26.600 they made at the crossroads could have ended 01:27:26.600 --> 01:27:29.220 up as an addict or a gang member or a phenomenal 01:27:29.220 --> 01:27:31.960 paramedic. You know, you have to be that person 01:27:31.960 --> 01:27:34.739 at that crossroads. It's so it's that proactive 01:27:34.739 --> 01:27:38.260 element. We don't need more money. We need to 01:27:38.260 --> 01:27:40.920 reinvest. We need to put the money upstream and 01:27:40.920 --> 01:27:43.119 the same with addiction. If we put our money 01:27:43.119 --> 01:27:46.819 into creating positive mental health tools, you 01:27:46.819 --> 01:27:49.279 wouldn't have people dying in gutters all over 01:27:49.279 --> 01:27:52.579 the country because of opioid crisis. So it's 01:27:52.579 --> 01:27:55.340 crazy how the people that we need the most, the 01:27:55.340 --> 01:27:57.500 first responders are the first ones on the chopping 01:27:57.500 --> 01:28:00.239 block, you know, yet, you know, not to get too 01:28:00.239 --> 01:28:02.119 political, but now we're starting all these wars. 01:28:02.239 --> 01:28:04.920 I mean, one missile could probably. you know, 01:28:04.920 --> 01:28:08.979 create an entire band of ENTs for a year. So 01:28:08.979 --> 01:28:13.739 that proactive false economy of taking apart 01:28:13.739 --> 01:28:16.039 the most important members of our community, 01:28:16.119 --> 01:28:18.140 our first responders, our teachers, et cetera, 01:28:18.220 --> 01:28:21.340 et cetera. I hope again, with the whole awakening 01:28:21.340 --> 01:28:23.180 conversation that we've had as a whole today, 01:28:23.420 --> 01:28:25.840 the people will understand that, you know, it's, 01:28:25.880 --> 01:28:27.800 if we really care about the nation's health, 01:28:27.880 --> 01:28:29.920 those are the areas that we've got to prioritize 01:28:29.920 --> 01:28:32.859 and money can come from just simply making us 01:28:32.859 --> 01:28:37.399 healthier. I think it's a fifth of our GDP goes 01:28:37.399 --> 01:28:41.060 on health care. And we are 75 % obese or overweight, 01:28:41.279 --> 01:28:45.000 43 % obese in this country. So there's your money. 01:28:45.119 --> 01:28:47.960 If you get people healthy again, that can be 01:28:47.960 --> 01:28:50.079 funneled into schools and police departments 01:28:50.079 --> 01:28:53.060 and EMT and paramedic programs and fire stations, 01:28:53.239 --> 01:28:55.399 and everyone would be healthier and happier. 01:28:57.119 --> 01:28:59.720 And you're absolutely correct. And it's a matter 01:28:59.720 --> 01:29:04.319 of... You need voices to get out there to start 01:29:04.319 --> 01:29:08.260 preaching it, for lack of a better term. And 01:29:08.260 --> 01:29:12.100 until that happens, you're going to continue 01:29:12.100 --> 01:29:17.539 to have these disparities within those types 01:29:17.539 --> 01:29:22.760 of systems. And it's interesting because I see 01:29:22.760 --> 01:29:28.300 here in Pittsburgh that there are different, 01:29:28.399 --> 01:29:32.619 I would say, community organizations, for lack 01:29:32.619 --> 01:29:35.340 of a better term, that are actually part of the 01:29:35.340 --> 01:29:38.319 public safety department. Community health and 01:29:38.319 --> 01:29:42.840 safety departments that are built in the public 01:29:42.840 --> 01:29:45.199 safety department that deals with some of the 01:29:45.199 --> 01:29:47.699 problems that you and I are talking about from 01:29:47.699 --> 01:29:50.960 a community standpoint, where they go out and... 01:29:51.880 --> 01:29:55.359 try to, you know, mentor or counsel addicts and 01:29:55.359 --> 01:30:00.579 give them guidance on employment and trying to 01:30:00.579 --> 01:30:04.239 get them to stop using drugs and things like 01:30:04.239 --> 01:30:09.640 that. So I think if you keep up being proactive, 01:30:09.920 --> 01:30:13.560 and I think that's the key word, is trying to 01:30:13.560 --> 01:30:16.300 prevent things from occurring. as opposed to 01:30:16.300 --> 01:30:18.180 waiting until it happens and then you're trying 01:30:18.180 --> 01:30:20.539 to come up with a solution for it, which makes 01:30:20.539 --> 01:30:25.239 it very problematic. It really does. And so that's, 01:30:25.239 --> 01:30:32.300 to me, how Freedom House evolved. We wanted to 01:30:32.300 --> 01:30:39.880 be an alternative to the police. And a lot of 01:30:39.880 --> 01:30:44.300 communities obviously have... bought into that. 01:30:44.979 --> 01:30:47.899 Now, you know, one of the other problems you're 01:30:47.899 --> 01:30:50.119 dealing with mental health, where you still have 01:30:50.119 --> 01:30:52.020 police officers responding and you're running 01:30:52.020 --> 01:30:55.760 into problems along those lines. But you have 01:30:55.760 --> 01:30:57.460 to come up with it. You have to be proactive 01:30:57.460 --> 01:31:00.279 to come up with an alternative as opposed to 01:31:00.279 --> 01:31:03.140 waiting for something to happen and then trying 01:31:03.140 --> 01:31:05.340 to come up with a solution because you've already 01:31:05.340 --> 01:31:09.960 lost the ballgame. And I use that mindset because 01:31:10.890 --> 01:31:14.470 Our medical director years ago kind of instilled 01:31:14.470 --> 01:31:17.289 that into me. She says, you know, if you have 01:31:17.289 --> 01:31:21.090 a patient, your goal is to make sure that blood 01:31:21.090 --> 01:31:23.930 pressure stays at a normal level. Because once 01:31:23.930 --> 01:31:26.649 it drops, then that's a good chance you've already 01:31:26.649 --> 01:31:29.050 lost the ballgame because it's more difficult 01:31:29.050 --> 01:31:31.470 to get it back up than it is to keep it there. 01:31:31.609 --> 01:31:37.510 So I think that, you know, covers society as 01:31:37.510 --> 01:31:42.180 a whole. you have to be proactive in taking care 01:31:42.180 --> 01:31:45.239 of people to prevent, you know, the ultimate 01:31:45.239 --> 01:31:49.140 pandemics and major problems that have come out 01:31:49.140 --> 01:31:52.159 today that we have to deal with. So we have to 01:31:52.159 --> 01:31:53.840 come up with solutions for them. And that's not 01:31:53.840 --> 01:31:55.619 the easiest thing in the world, I have to admit, 01:31:55.840 --> 01:31:58.920 but it takes a bit of effort. So somebody has 01:31:58.920 --> 01:32:02.380 to put forth that effort. Absolutely. Well, I 01:32:02.380 --> 01:32:04.079 want to hit one more area, then we'll go to some 01:32:04.079 --> 01:32:07.770 closing questions. Sure. When you started telling 01:32:07.770 --> 01:32:10.310 us about your early life, the loss of your mother 01:32:10.310 --> 01:32:12.310 when you're four years old, and then the loss 01:32:12.310 --> 01:32:14.010 of your father while you're in an orphanage, 01:32:14.050 --> 01:32:22.750 and then the seemingly lack of self -value when 01:32:22.750 --> 01:32:24.890 you realize that even that family seemed like 01:32:24.890 --> 01:32:27.090 they didn't want you there. These are all very 01:32:27.090 --> 01:32:29.670 obvious traumas in someone's early life. And 01:32:29.670 --> 01:32:32.130 the irony is a lot of us that toe the line in 01:32:32.130 --> 01:32:35.130 the first responder professions, we have. a lot 01:32:35.130 --> 01:32:37.550 of trauma when we're younger. And there is psychology 01:32:37.550 --> 01:32:39.869 as to why it drives us to the life of service. 01:32:39.930 --> 01:32:42.729 And you want to be the one stopping someone else's 01:32:42.729 --> 01:32:44.590 pain, arguably because you felt it yourself. 01:32:45.430 --> 01:32:48.430 But then one of the other huge contributing factors 01:32:48.430 --> 01:32:50.569 that's really starting to show itself now is 01:32:50.569 --> 01:32:53.710 organizational betrayal, moral injury. And as 01:32:53.710 --> 01:32:58.149 we've heard from the closing down of the Freedom 01:32:58.149 --> 01:33:01.210 House to the fights that you had in the different 01:33:01.210 --> 01:33:04.430 ranks in Pittsburgh EMS, I would imagine there's 01:33:04.430 --> 01:33:09.310 a lot of those occurring along your path. So 01:33:09.310 --> 01:33:12.470 what was the impact of that on your mental health? 01:33:12.569 --> 01:33:14.550 And what have you used to make sure that you 01:33:14.550 --> 01:33:16.729 kind of pulled yourself out of any dark places? 01:33:19.409 --> 01:33:24.550 That's a very, very great question. And what 01:33:24.550 --> 01:33:30.319 I often tell people is that on the surface, it 01:33:30.319 --> 01:33:32.279 gives the perception that it was a traumatic 01:33:32.279 --> 01:33:36.180 event. And there was a good chance it probably 01:33:36.180 --> 01:33:42.460 was. But what I was able to do is to take that 01:33:42.460 --> 01:33:48.979 trauma and use it to motivate me to be better 01:33:48.979 --> 01:33:53.939 or succeed in a particular goal. So much so that, 01:33:54.060 --> 01:33:57.720 and this may sound strange, is I don't know how 01:33:57.720 --> 01:34:02.890 to quit. I may start working on something and 01:34:02.890 --> 01:34:06.149 I may put it down for a while and stuff like 01:34:06.149 --> 01:34:09.649 that. But I will definitely come back to it because 01:34:09.649 --> 01:34:14.390 I have to complete it. And that's as a result 01:34:14.390 --> 01:34:21.189 of that experience. And instead of using it as 01:34:21.189 --> 01:34:25.789 a barrier or an excuse or hurdle, I use it as 01:34:25.789 --> 01:34:29.439 a motivator. And I often tell people that You're 01:34:29.439 --> 01:34:32.140 going to run across hurdles and barriers and 01:34:32.140 --> 01:34:37.479 disappointments and things as a part of daily 01:34:37.479 --> 01:34:40.560 living. But instead of using it as an excuse, 01:34:40.960 --> 01:34:47.800 use it to motivate you. And I found that to work 01:34:47.800 --> 01:34:53.359 really strong from my standpoint. And I try to 01:34:53.359 --> 01:34:57.699 teach that to anyone that I'm speaking with. 01:34:59.399 --> 01:35:03.079 Use your shortcomings and your problems and your 01:35:03.079 --> 01:35:05.979 issues and disappointments. Use them to motivate 01:35:05.979 --> 01:35:10.880 you to accomplish a particular goal that you 01:35:10.880 --> 01:35:16.319 set out to achieve. And, you know, it's not something 01:35:16.319 --> 01:35:20.060 to be happy that it happened. But instead of 01:35:20.060 --> 01:35:23.399 using it to stop me from doing something, I use 01:35:23.399 --> 01:35:25.800 it to motivate me to accomplish a particular 01:35:25.800 --> 01:35:29.619 goal. And this is the result of it. This is what's 01:35:29.619 --> 01:35:31.920 really interesting is because, as I said, a lot 01:35:31.920 --> 01:35:34.220 of us have this in our past, even if we're just 01:35:34.220 --> 01:35:37.279 looking at early life. The difference between 01:35:37.279 --> 01:35:39.300 someone who then that sends them down a very 01:35:39.300 --> 01:35:41.439 dark path and maybe even taking their own life 01:35:41.439 --> 01:35:44.680 or drowning in addiction and people who are able 01:35:44.680 --> 01:35:48.680 to then rise above it is simply. Being able to 01:35:48.680 --> 01:35:50.699 process that trauma, and that, don't get me wrong, 01:35:50.800 --> 01:35:52.960 is not an easy feat. It depends on who's been 01:35:52.960 --> 01:35:56.000 put in front of you. And I would assume that 01:35:56.000 --> 01:35:57.819 the mentorship that you had under the Freedom 01:35:57.819 --> 01:35:59.979 House is probably one of the really healing elements 01:35:59.979 --> 01:36:03.000 of your life. But once you are able to process 01:36:03.000 --> 01:36:05.840 those traumas, they become strengths. That becomes 01:36:05.840 --> 01:36:08.380 resilience. And you, I would argue, become more, 01:36:08.380 --> 01:36:11.460 not only resilient, but more empathetic because 01:36:11.460 --> 01:36:13.699 now you can relate to some of these people that 01:36:13.699 --> 01:36:16.319 are your patients when you're wearing the uniform. 01:36:17.689 --> 01:36:20.729 you're absolutely correct and as a matter of 01:36:20.729 --> 01:36:25.609 fact um when i worked as a paramedic in the field 01:36:25.609 --> 01:36:32.909 anytime i walked into a person's home i looked 01:36:32.909 --> 01:36:36.970 at that person as a member of my family not as 01:36:36.970 --> 01:36:41.289 not as a patient so i'm treating a member of 01:36:41.289 --> 01:36:44.329 my family so if you're a member of my family 01:36:44.329 --> 01:36:47.220 i'm going to give you the best possible treatment 01:36:47.220 --> 01:36:51.539 that i could give you or i did a role reversal 01:36:51.539 --> 01:36:54.779 i said what if it was me lying there on the floor 01:36:54.779 --> 01:36:58.819 or suffering from whatever how would i want someone 01:36:58.819 --> 01:37:03.079 to treat me so those are the types of mindsets 01:37:03.079 --> 01:37:06.899 that i kind of utilize and you you're talking 01:37:06.899 --> 01:37:09.359 about you know being empathetic and compassionate 01:37:09.359 --> 01:37:14.600 uh toward toward other people those are the end 01:37:14.600 --> 01:37:17.539 results of it You're absolutely correct. That's 01:37:17.539 --> 01:37:23.680 the end result. So I can say firsthand, I've 01:37:23.680 --> 01:37:28.079 experienced it and overcame it. So I'm going 01:37:28.079 --> 01:37:31.739 to try to encourage you to do the same thing. 01:37:33.000 --> 01:37:37.640 Yeah. Absolutely. I was walking my dog yesterday 01:37:37.640 --> 01:37:40.340 and an old, old call popped in my head and I 01:37:40.340 --> 01:37:43.479 was reflecting on it. We got called into a still 01:37:43.479 --> 01:37:45.659 alarm. So one of the fire station, our fire station 01:37:45.659 --> 01:37:49.220 to pick up a patient. And it came through very 01:37:49.220 --> 01:37:52.239 strange. And we got there and it emerged that 01:37:52.239 --> 01:37:55.899 it was the mayor who had had an MI, actually 01:37:55.899 --> 01:37:59.560 an arrhythmia, excuse me. The way the response 01:37:59.560 --> 01:38:02.159 was, was, oh, this is an extra special person. 01:38:02.199 --> 01:38:04.560 You've got to give them extra care. And I just 01:38:04.560 --> 01:38:06.859 remember thinking it makes no difference who 01:38:06.859 --> 01:38:10.979 it is. If you are a good paramedic, it could 01:38:10.979 --> 01:38:13.439 be the homeless gentleman that you run on three 01:38:13.439 --> 01:38:16.500 times, or it could be. you know, your own mother. 01:38:16.560 --> 01:38:18.539 If you're doing the job right, there shouldn't 01:38:18.539 --> 01:38:20.460 be different ways of treating people. I think 01:38:20.460 --> 01:38:23.340 that's a good barometer on, you know, for example, 01:38:23.340 --> 01:38:25.920 your own burnout. Are you deviating from that 01:38:25.920 --> 01:38:28.319 level that you set yourself or are you still 01:38:28.319 --> 01:38:32.279 keeping that as your true north? And you're absolutely 01:38:32.279 --> 01:38:37.859 correct because I remember going on different 01:38:37.859 --> 01:38:42.420 calls and I was speaking to an audience probably 01:38:42.420 --> 01:38:46.760 last week sometime. And I said, I would go in 01:38:46.760 --> 01:38:50.380 the middle of downtown Pittsburgh at noon where 01:38:50.380 --> 01:38:52.539 there's crowds, everybody's out for lunch, and 01:38:52.539 --> 01:38:55.880 maybe you have a homeless person sitting there 01:38:55.880 --> 01:39:00.260 that's not feeling well. And you got this crowd 01:39:00.260 --> 01:39:04.739 around him, and I would pull up, and here I am 01:39:04.739 --> 01:39:07.420 dressed with a white shirt and patent leather 01:39:07.420 --> 01:39:12.119 shoes. bars and stripes and badges and stuff, 01:39:12.220 --> 01:39:14.399 I sit right down there on the ground next to 01:39:14.399 --> 01:39:19.100 them and bring myself down to their level to 01:39:19.100 --> 01:39:22.479 provide them with a level of comfortability as 01:39:22.479 --> 01:39:28.420 opposed to them doing that. So that became a 01:39:28.420 --> 01:39:31.800 part of my interaction with people. And you're 01:39:31.800 --> 01:39:35.180 absolutely correct. Going through different traumatic 01:39:35.180 --> 01:39:40.079 situations kind of opens your eyes. and brings 01:39:40.079 --> 01:39:43.539 a certain amount of empathy and compassion and 01:39:43.539 --> 01:39:47.300 caring and concern about other people. And it 01:39:47.300 --> 01:39:50.880 definitely made a believer out of me. Not that 01:39:50.880 --> 01:39:54.220 I want to go through it again, but it did. And 01:39:54.220 --> 01:39:58.699 it played a major role in doing that. So it actually 01:39:58.699 --> 01:40:02.699 made it easier for me to deal with people. To 01:40:02.699 --> 01:40:06.359 the point that I love people. I love being around 01:40:06.359 --> 01:40:08.720 them. I love talking to them and stuff like that. 01:40:08.819 --> 01:40:14.800 I don't look at myself as up here, for lack of 01:40:14.800 --> 01:40:18.779 a better term, despite all of the hoopla surrounding 01:40:18.779 --> 01:40:22.539 Chief Moon and stuff like that. I'm just a normal 01:40:22.539 --> 01:40:28.239 person. And I act just like I'm just a regular, 01:40:28.420 --> 01:40:35.220 normal human being. If nobody, if you didn't 01:40:35.220 --> 01:40:38.060 know it, I wouldn't tell you because I want you 01:40:38.060 --> 01:40:50.600 to look at me as an equal. So I just have developed 01:40:50.600 --> 01:40:57.039 that empathetic compassion life because of what 01:40:57.039 --> 01:40:59.020 I've gone through. And that was the result of 01:40:59.020 --> 01:41:03.579 it. So I take that very seriously as a learning 01:41:03.579 --> 01:41:07.659 curve, not as a hurdle or a barrier. I learned 01:41:07.659 --> 01:41:13.119 a lot on resiliency and perseverance and determination. 01:41:13.680 --> 01:41:17.739 And I use all of that in my day -to -day life. 01:41:19.039 --> 01:41:22.819 I've said this a lot. And rather than the doom 01:41:22.819 --> 01:41:24.939 and gloom messaging that we've had with the mental 01:41:24.939 --> 01:41:28.180 health side, I think the excitement of the post 01:41:28.180 --> 01:41:30.300 -traumatic growth conversation that you will 01:41:30.300 --> 01:41:32.859 be a better person when you find your own unique 01:41:32.859 --> 01:41:36.340 toolbox to deal with the things that you recognize 01:41:36.340 --> 01:41:38.479 that were traumas that need to be addressed. 01:41:38.960 --> 01:41:42.060 But it's exciting on the other side. And like 01:41:42.060 --> 01:41:45.180 you said, I think this is the thing. I think 01:41:45.180 --> 01:41:47.840 there's a lot of pain in the world, which is 01:41:47.840 --> 01:41:51.039 why. racism and pigeonholing and antisemitism 01:41:51.039 --> 01:41:53.779 and Islamophobia and all these things that are 01:41:53.779 --> 01:41:56.579 rearing their nasty little heads again is coming 01:41:56.579 --> 01:41:58.880 from unaddressed trauma. And I think that just 01:41:58.880 --> 01:42:00.880 like you said, when you work through it, all 01:42:00.880 --> 01:42:03.479 of a sudden you see that shared humanity. And 01:42:03.479 --> 01:42:07.159 that is a superpower. You're absolutely correct. 01:42:07.439 --> 01:42:15.100 And it's amazing that I am a firm believer that 01:42:15.100 --> 01:42:21.069 everything that happened to me was ordained. 01:42:21.409 --> 01:42:26.489 It was going to happen anyway. So there was no 01:42:26.489 --> 01:42:30.869 way for me to prevent it. And particularly if 01:42:30.869 --> 01:42:33.609 it starts out when I'm four or five years old 01:42:33.609 --> 01:42:38.250 and starts getting worse all along. And then 01:42:38.250 --> 01:42:43.189 it's up to me on how I react to it. And like 01:42:43.189 --> 01:42:47.449 you said, I... You know, you have that gloom 01:42:47.449 --> 01:42:50.430 and doom and gloom period there, but you got 01:42:50.430 --> 01:42:55.569 to rise up at some point and say, uh -uh, no, 01:42:55.710 --> 01:43:00.270 I'm not going to allow you to control me. And 01:43:00.270 --> 01:43:05.529 that's one of the things that I hold dear and 01:43:05.529 --> 01:43:13.529 near, that I can't allow misfortunes to be that 01:43:13.529 --> 01:43:16.100 wrecking ball. And oftentimes most people do. 01:43:17.479 --> 01:43:19.760 Absolutely. One more thing before we go to the 01:43:19.760 --> 01:43:22.140 closing questions just popped in my head. I was 01:43:22.140 --> 01:43:24.260 talking to Kevin. We just did another interview 01:43:24.260 --> 01:43:27.699 a few weeks ago. I am a huge fan of that new 01:43:27.699 --> 01:43:31.090 show, The Pit. And the moment they started talking 01:43:31.090 --> 01:43:33.869 about Freedom House on that episode, having spoken 01:43:33.869 --> 01:43:36.729 to Kevin, having read the book, I was like, this 01:43:36.729 --> 01:43:38.609 is incredible that they've brought this up. As 01:43:38.609 --> 01:43:40.770 you said, these are parts of history that should 01:43:40.770 --> 01:43:44.710 be front and center again. What effect has that 01:43:44.710 --> 01:43:48.149 show had on the resurgence of this conversation 01:43:48.149 --> 01:43:54.329 with you? A very big one. As a matter of fact, 01:43:54.449 --> 01:44:01.439 one of the... EMS Physicians, that's part of 01:44:01.439 --> 01:44:07.380 our diversity, equity, inclusion team, is a consultant 01:44:07.380 --> 01:44:14.640 for the pit. So she was the one that got that 01:44:14.640 --> 01:44:18.899 part of Freedom House put into the script itself. 01:44:19.359 --> 01:44:24.420 And it's interesting because the majority of 01:44:24.420 --> 01:44:26.739 places I go, that's one of the things that they 01:44:26.739 --> 01:44:32.560 bring up. And I've had the privilege of sitting 01:44:32.560 --> 01:44:36.300 in a meeting with Noah Wiley, whatever his name 01:44:36.300 --> 01:44:38.920 is. And I've actually gave him an autographed 01:44:38.920 --> 01:44:44.340 copy of American Sirens. So he knows firsthand. 01:44:45.619 --> 01:44:50.600 And it's interesting because on the surface, 01:44:50.659 --> 01:44:55.279 you're looking at this other guy as a big time 01:44:55.279 --> 01:44:57.779 actor. And that's all he is. He knows nothing 01:44:57.779 --> 01:45:02.159 about medicine. And on the reverse side, he's 01:45:02.159 --> 01:45:08.100 looking at me as some legend that he has a book 01:45:08.100 --> 01:45:12.500 that's signed by me or a picture of me and him 01:45:12.500 --> 01:45:14.800 shaking hands or posing or whatever the case 01:45:14.800 --> 01:45:17.800 is. So it was a role reversal type of situation 01:45:17.800 --> 01:45:20.420 with that. Instead of me asking him, I don't 01:45:20.420 --> 01:45:25.529 have his autograph. He has mine. And rightly 01:45:25.529 --> 01:45:30.470 so. All right. Well, that's a good segue to the 01:45:30.470 --> 01:45:32.510 first of my questions. So for everyone listening, 01:45:32.609 --> 01:45:35.090 if they want to hear more about the Freedom House 01:45:35.090 --> 01:45:38.369 story, Kevin Hazard's American Sirens is a great, 01:45:38.430 --> 01:45:41.130 great book. Are there any other books that you 01:45:41.130 --> 01:45:43.909 love to recommend? It can be related to our discussion 01:45:43.909 --> 01:45:47.949 today or completely unrelated. Not necessarily 01:45:47.949 --> 01:45:53.210 other books so much as there are two documentaries 01:45:53.210 --> 01:46:00.729 out. First Responders, which is a PBS documentary. 01:46:00.829 --> 01:46:05.909 It's roughly about 28 minutes in duration. And 01:46:05.909 --> 01:46:09.890 there's a second documentary called Heroes on 01:46:09.890 --> 01:46:15.029 Call. And that's roughly about 20, 28 minutes 01:46:15.029 --> 01:46:18.670 also. And, you know, needless to say, I'm starring 01:46:18.670 --> 01:46:22.310 in both of them. But that's why I know I wanted 01:46:22.310 --> 01:46:28.729 your autograph. They both won Emmy Awards. The 01:46:28.729 --> 01:46:33.670 PBS documentary, I have the Emmy upstairs thrown 01:46:33.670 --> 01:46:37.710 in a corner somewhere, piled with other stuff 01:46:37.710 --> 01:46:42.829 piled on top of it. But yeah, the two documentaries 01:46:42.829 --> 01:46:49.960 were the result of all of the... Like I talked 01:46:49.960 --> 01:46:52.720 about, the frustration and the disappointments 01:46:52.720 --> 01:46:55.500 and the setbacks and the broken promises that 01:46:55.500 --> 01:46:59.619 we had to deal with. That's the end result of 01:46:59.619 --> 01:47:04.520 that. There's a third documentary, I can't recall 01:47:04.520 --> 01:47:09.180 the name of it right now, that is in the works 01:47:09.180 --> 01:47:16.859 regarding Freedom House. Also, there's a legislation 01:47:16.859 --> 01:47:22.079 that will be introduced in congress to get freedom 01:47:22.079 --> 01:47:25.539 house the congressional gold medal hopefully 01:47:25.539 --> 01:47:32.579 this year sometime and so there's a lot of momentum 01:47:32.579 --> 01:47:39.199 behind it and that's why sitting here with our 01:47:39.199 --> 01:47:44.079 discussions i don't take it lightly it's just 01:47:44.079 --> 01:47:46.920 it's appreciated more than than you ever know 01:47:46.920 --> 01:47:51.500 because It's part of helping me fulfill the desires 01:47:51.500 --> 01:47:54.520 of my heart. And it's to get this part of history 01:47:54.520 --> 01:47:58.460 back out into the forefront where it belongs. 01:47:59.020 --> 01:48:03.460 So, you know, the thank you goes to you for giving 01:48:03.460 --> 01:48:05.420 me this opportunity to bring this part of history 01:48:05.420 --> 01:48:07.840 back out there. Well, I'm going to throw it back 01:48:07.840 --> 01:48:09.680 to you as well, because I got to be a firefighter, 01:48:09.680 --> 01:48:12.340 paramedic, EMT, and then paramedic for 14 years. 01:48:12.420 --> 01:48:15.199 And it was, you know, an incredible journey. 01:48:15.239 --> 01:48:18.829 I only left to... be a fight for you know making 01:48:18.829 --> 01:48:21.729 our profession healthy and and mentally you know 01:48:21.729 --> 01:48:26.909 uh healthy as well but to to be sitting here 01:48:26.909 --> 01:48:29.630 now in 2026 you know and i'm from england and 01:48:29.630 --> 01:48:31.770 i'm doing the thing that was created by the freedom 01:48:31.770 --> 01:48:34.310 house i mean it really is a beautiful first full 01:48:34.310 --> 01:48:39.180 circle that we get to sit down together yes Next 01:48:39.180 --> 01:48:41.520 question then for you. Is there a person that 01:48:41.520 --> 01:48:43.960 you'd recommend to come on this podcast as a 01:48:43.960 --> 01:48:46.680 guest to speak to the first responders, military 01:48:46.680 --> 01:48:51.000 and associated professions of the world? Yeah. 01:48:53.279 --> 01:48:58.460 And that person would be a former Freedom House 01:48:58.460 --> 01:49:02.380 paramedic. Kevin knows him. His name is Mitchell 01:49:02.380 --> 01:49:08.039 Brown. Once we're done, I can send you his email 01:49:08.039 --> 01:49:12.100 address and just tell him, you know, I referred 01:49:12.100 --> 01:49:18.979 you to him to talk. Because I used him as an 01:49:18.979 --> 01:49:24.119 example primarily because, remember, we were 01:49:24.119 --> 01:49:27.579 labeled by society as the least likely to succeed 01:49:27.579 --> 01:49:33.479 when Pittsburgh EMS took over Freedom House. 01:49:34.159 --> 01:49:38.020 He didn't come over to Pittsburgh EMS. Instead, 01:49:38.199 --> 01:49:41.659 he went to Cleveland and became the EMS commissioner 01:49:41.659 --> 01:49:46.439 for Cleveland's EMS system. And from there, he 01:49:46.439 --> 01:49:48.819 became the public safety director for the state 01:49:48.819 --> 01:49:53.079 of Ohio. And from there, he became the public 01:49:53.079 --> 01:49:58.260 safety director for Columbus, Ohio. And then 01:49:58.260 --> 01:50:01.960 he became a city councilman in Columbus. They 01:50:01.960 --> 01:50:05.300 have a fire station. a brand new one in Columbus, 01:50:05.399 --> 01:50:12.420 Ohio, named after him in his honor. So, but he's 01:50:12.420 --> 01:50:14.840 still placed in that label of the least likely 01:50:14.840 --> 01:50:21.300 to succeed. So the proof is in the pudding that, 01:50:21.420 --> 01:50:25.479 you know, society can say what they want, but 01:50:25.479 --> 01:50:28.300 it's up to you to prove them wrong. And he did 01:50:28.300 --> 01:50:32.359 a great job of actually doing that. And he was 01:50:32.359 --> 01:50:38.260 the operations director at Freedom House. And 01:50:38.260 --> 01:50:42.060 he was the one that hired me. He was the one 01:50:42.060 --> 01:50:44.359 that refused. It was a different director that 01:50:44.359 --> 01:50:46.739 told me I wasn't qualified. But by the time I 01:50:46.739 --> 01:50:50.140 went back three months later, he was there. And 01:50:50.140 --> 01:50:53.979 he started as a paramedic working on the ambulance, 01:50:54.239 --> 01:51:00.640 too. So, you know. There have been others that 01:51:00.640 --> 01:51:05.979 have gone on to become doctors, high school principals. 01:51:06.340 --> 01:51:11.119 A couple of them have gotten their PhDs and things, 01:51:11.220 --> 01:51:15.880 all grouped into this one label of least likely 01:51:15.880 --> 01:51:19.579 to succeed and unemployable and things like that. 01:51:19.960 --> 01:51:28.180 So, you know, society doesn't determine your 01:51:28.180 --> 01:51:33.899 worth. You do. Absolutely. Well, the very last 01:51:33.899 --> 01:51:35.840 question then before we make sure everyone knows 01:51:35.840 --> 01:51:39.319 where to find you. What do you do to decompress? 01:51:40.460 --> 01:51:45.100 A combination of things. I like to garden. And 01:51:45.100 --> 01:51:48.819 here in Pittsburgh, the weather's been kind of 01:51:48.819 --> 01:51:51.239 up and down, so I haven't been able to get outdoors 01:51:51.239 --> 01:51:56.779 yet. So I love plants and flowers. I also... 01:51:57.520 --> 01:52:00.260 And this may be strange because I like to look 01:52:00.260 --> 01:52:04.619 at law enforcement movies on TV where there's 01:52:04.619 --> 01:52:10.920 a lot of violence, believe it or not. So things 01:52:10.920 --> 01:52:16.939 like the FBI and CIA and things like that, I 01:52:16.939 --> 01:52:19.079 like to look at those types of movies and things. 01:52:19.199 --> 01:52:23.140 But I actually collect DVDs. I have close to 01:52:23.140 --> 01:52:27.409 a thousand of them. I'm heavily into 3D DVDs 01:52:27.409 --> 01:52:31.310 right now. Oh, really? Yeah. That's the one with 01:52:31.310 --> 01:52:35.829 the special glasses? Yes. Okay. Obviously, you 01:52:35.829 --> 01:52:38.670 can't find any more televisions, but I have two 01:52:38.670 --> 01:52:41.689 TVs right now. One's probably about 15 years 01:52:41.689 --> 01:52:46.430 old, but it's still 3D. And so I have the glasses. 01:52:46.430 --> 01:52:51.319 I'm ready to buy a projector. with the screen 01:52:51.319 --> 01:52:54.079 that shows 3D movies and stuff like that. So 01:52:54.079 --> 01:52:58.899 that's my biggest brainchild right now. Did you 01:52:58.899 --> 01:53:03.359 ever watch the HBO show The Wire? Yes. Yeah, 01:53:03.380 --> 01:53:06.800 I've had a lot of law enforcement guests, and 01:53:06.800 --> 01:53:08.640 that's the one that they all seem to hold up 01:53:08.640 --> 01:53:11.920 as the... the best one and the way they segmented 01:53:11.920 --> 01:53:16.319 each series to, you know, the original detective 01:53:16.319 --> 01:53:18.380 unit. And then you had the perspective through 01:53:18.380 --> 01:53:20.779 the gang member and then the drug smuggler and 01:53:20.779 --> 01:53:23.359 the court system and the school system. It was 01:53:23.359 --> 01:53:27.600 so well done. Yeah, absolutely. Loved it. Loved 01:53:27.600 --> 01:53:30.720 it. Actually, right now, since you mentioned 01:53:30.720 --> 01:53:34.079 it, I'm getting ready to get the full season 01:53:34.079 --> 01:53:39.100 of The Wire on DVD. There we go. There we go. 01:53:39.119 --> 01:53:40.560 Yeah, I started watching it again. I was just 01:53:40.560 --> 01:53:42.500 so blown away. And even just from a television 01:53:42.500 --> 01:53:44.920 making perspective, the storytelling was so good. 01:53:45.560 --> 01:53:47.920 Yeah. Well, for people listening then, if they 01:53:47.920 --> 01:53:50.039 want to reach out to you, if they want to even, 01:53:50.100 --> 01:53:52.159 you know, see if you'd be interested in coming 01:53:52.159 --> 01:53:53.979 in to speak, where are the best places to do 01:53:53.979 --> 01:54:05.779 that? On LinkedIn and Facebook. I love talking 01:54:05.779 --> 01:54:11.899 to people. I don't know how to say no when it 01:54:11.899 --> 01:54:18.579 comes to this. And I'm relatively easy to contact 01:54:18.579 --> 01:54:24.079 on LinkedIn and Facebook. And obviously you have 01:54:24.079 --> 01:54:27.880 my email address and stuff like that. Feel free 01:54:27.880 --> 01:54:33.250 to give it out to people that may inquire. about 01:54:33.250 --> 01:54:35.050 talking with me and stuff like that, because 01:54:35.050 --> 01:54:37.930 that's all a part of my attempt to get this part 01:54:37.930 --> 01:54:41.590 of history back out there. So I welcome it. Well, 01:54:41.649 --> 01:54:43.630 Chief, I want to say thank you so much. It has 01:54:43.630 --> 01:54:46.350 been such an incredible conversation, not only 01:54:46.350 --> 01:54:49.529 the Freedom House story, but your journey of 01:54:49.529 --> 01:54:51.310 resilience and then some of the perspectives 01:54:51.310 --> 01:54:54.149 that you had as you sit here now with all those 01:54:54.149 --> 01:54:57.069 decades in our profession. So I want to thank 01:54:57.069 --> 01:54:59.390 you so, so much for being so generous with your 01:54:59.390 --> 01:55:01.489 time and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast 01:55:01.489 --> 01:55:04.960 today. Thank you so much for this opportunity. 01:55:05.319 --> 01:55:08.859 And like I said, you're helping me fulfill the 01:55:08.859 --> 01:55:11.579 desires of my heart. So really, I can't thank 01:55:11.579 --> 01:55:13.199 you enough for just sitting here talking to me.