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Welcome to episode 470 of Behind the Shield podcast.
As always, my name is James Gearing, and this
week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the
show, Craig Davidson. Now, Craig spent a majority
of his career working as not only a lifeguard,
but a waterman on the shores of Hawaii. And as
with previous guests, there are so many parallels
between the lifeguarding profession and fire
EMS and law enforcement. So then Craig transitioned
into the world of stunts, a profession that I've
also occupied for a couple of decades now. So
again, so many parallels to pull from that, whether
it's safety on the set, whether it's the rigging
side. So this was a fascinating conversation.
What also made it fun is there were dogs and
chickens and all kinds of things in the background
too. Before we get to that conversation, as I
say every week, please just take a moment, go
to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe
to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.
Every five -star rating truly does elevate this
podcast, making it more and more visible for
others to find. And this is a free library of
470 episodes of some of the greatest minds on
earth. So all I ask in return is that you help
share these incredible men and women's stories.
so I can get them to everyone else who needs
to hear them. So with that being said, I introduce
to you Craig Davidson. Enjoy. So Craig, I want
to start by saying thank you so much for taking
the time to come on the podcast today. Aloha.
Thank you for having me. I'm stoked to do this
and I'm honored to be talking to you. So we were
connected by Jason Bitzer. So for people that
haven't heard that conversation and they can
probably guess by your initial greeting, where
are we finding you on planet Earth today? I am
in lovely Makaha. Oahu is a place where I was
born and raised. It's a place where I find special
and close to my heart. So we decided to buy a
house 15 years ago and live here. Beautiful.
I'll have to explore right from the very beginning
then. So tell me where you were born and then
tell me about your family dynamic, what your
parents did and how many siblings. So I was born
on the east side of Oahu in Kaneohe or Kailua
at Castle Hospital. My mom was from Kailua and
my dad was from Makaha. And they had met up at
Kamehameha Schools, which is, you know, the Hawaiian
school over here, the Bishop Estate Hawaiian
school. And, you know. It was cool that they
met. You know, it's nice that they made me and
my sisters and all that good stuff. But I was
mostly raised out in Makaha. My dad, our house
was in Makaha on Whiteman Street. And that street
was very famous. It was like a famous little
surf street. I mean, you had N2 Rail Sun living
two houses away from me. And I was... Always,
you know, around her or at her house or doing
something on the street. And we had like 20 kids
on our street. We had like 20 kids playing every
day after school all night. You know, and all
of us were either in the ocean or skateboarding
or playing football on the street or doing something.
And it was a special street. It was really special.
I think about it and I think back on those special
times and the times that I had with all my friends.
It's not the same nowadays. You can't even go
on the street nowadays. I wouldn't even let my
kids go on the street without me being out there.
Whereas when I was a little kid, we were always
on the street or always by ourselves at the beach.
It's a different time. It's changed a lot. Yeah,
I lived two houses away from Auntie Rao, and
I was lucky enough to, you know, see her and
experience all her stories and her world travels
and, you know, all that good stuff. And she was
known as the Queen of Makaha. And, you know,
sadly, she passed away. I think it was, I don't
remember, it was 2015 or something, I forget.
But yeah, Makaha is really special to me and
special to a lot of people out here. I went to
high school out at Waianae High School, which
was a rough, rough time. It was a rough area.
I think it was the second day or the third day
I was in school. The Hawaiians were fighting
the Samoans. And it started at a local dance
at a gym or something. And it carried on into
school. And on the second or third day, the Hawaiians
were throwing the Samoans off the second floor.
I mean, it was that radical. Damn. Like flying
them off the second floor. There was like SWAT
cops and officers with like shields and, you
know, full on SWAT gear. And we're like, what
is going on? And, you know, that's just the way
of the West Side, the Wild West, the way of the
West Side and, you know, where I lived. And it
was radical. It was really radical growing up.
It's really... A lot of drugs, a lot of, a lot
of drugs. I mean, I've had so much people go
to jail, you know, for drugs and go to jail for
killing people because they were on drugs. You
know, it's just, I was one of the lucky ones
and I made it out. I made it out pretty good
and very thankful of my childhood. of course,
because if I didn't have all those experiences,
then I wouldn't be what I am today or who I am
today, you know. But yeah, that's kind of that
in a nutshell. Well, just you got two polarizing
moments in your childhood. It's funny, the street
thing. I just had a conversation with an Australian
guy who's SAS, like an elite soldier. And he
talked about that same thing when he was young.
So you had this one environment when you were
younger where I'm sure the kids that you were
playing with were probably from all walks of
life, but you all played together on the street.
And then you had the school where it was very
divided and there was that antagonistic element.
So what were the difference in dynamics between
the two? Why was one peaceful, even though you
were younger? And then why was there so much
tension with the other one? That's a good question.
I mean, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. On
our neighborhood, it was just such a good group
of kids. I mean, like you said, it was just all
different ethnicities all harmonizing and blending
in. And we had one kid who was like. top 200
or top 100 surfer in the world. And he ended
up turning to drugs and that was it. That was
his curse. He's totally fine today and he shapes
surfboards and he's still a phenomenal surfer.
But I don't know. Then you go right up the street,
you go right around the corner and not even 300
yards away and it's just radical. just scary
but i don't know what made us as kids at the
time like not see that or be blind to it or like
whereas nowadays you're like so aware of it and
i don't even want my kids to be on the road without
me you know it's just different it's a different
time and now when when you hear stories of um
You know, Hawaii, I had Uncle Hoffie on, Aaron
Hoff, who he has a nonprofit there trying to
help some of the kids and steer them in the right
direction. He uses CrossFit, and he has the Great
Hawaiian Run. Great on Kauai, yeah, on Kauai.
Yeah, and he talked about that. You know, you
hear this, like, Andy Irons, you know, suffered
an overdose. There's so many of these top surfers
that we seem to lose. How did that happen? infiltrate
the island. Do you know the history of why there
is such a drug problem on the island specifically?
You know, I'll be honest. It's just like anywhere
else. I mean, but we're on an island. It's easier
to get. You know, drugs are easier to get. And
people are always trying to make a dollar and
make a buck. And, you know, I was kind of surrounded
by some of that when I was a kid. You know, my
parents smoked marijuana when I was a kid, and
that was kind of just the thing, you know, that
was kind of normal. It was kind of just in the
70s and the 80s, that's what people did. And
then as you get older and the drugs progress
and get more radical and you got meth and you
got cocaine and you got all these other drugs,
people like Andy, they just, marijuana wasn't
enough, you know. Other people that I've known,
marijuana just wasn't enough. And it's funny
now, it's like turned full circle now. Whereas
everybody's smoking marijuana now. Whereas back
then, if you did that, if you smoked, you were
kind of like the druggie, even though it was
just marijuana. Now, what's the policy on the
island? Is marijuana legal now? I have no idea,
but I don't know. I don't think it is. But you
can have a medical marijuana card, which I think
everybody that smokes has a medical marijuana
card. I have no idea. I'm not a habitual kind
of guy. True story. Even though I was surrounded
by all that stuff, I never did a single drug
until I was 30. years old not one single drop
what made you finally try one at that age uh
we were we were doing blue crush on the north
shore and the north shore was just the north
shore you know north shore was it was radical
at the time and you know like aaron had said
the north shore was it was everywhere you know
he had all these eagles and pro surfers coming
into town and people staying in houses for extended
periods of time and you know everybody was doing
it which i didn't realize it's kind of naive
to the fact that everybody was doing it until
i tried it then you realize oh my gosh everybody's
doing it you know and it's it was But it took
me 30 years, and it's the one biggest regret
I think I have in my life. Because I could tell
people all the way until I was 30, never touched
it. No, never touched anything. No, no, no. And
I can't say that anymore, you know. And I'm almost
50 now. Turned 50 in June. And that's one thing
I wish I could. I mean, I can't take it back,
and the life experiences are priceless, I guess.
I mean, seeing all that and experiencing all
that for a few years, you know. But it wasn't
hard for me to stop, and I haven't stopped since.
I haven't done anything since, I don't know,
2004 or 2005, maybe, somewhere around there.
Yeah, this is fascinating to me. So I have a
lot of conversations about this. And I'll give
you a good background story. So in Portugal,
and people listening to this frequently have
heard this story before, but... About 20 years
ago, they decriminalized addiction. So not selling
drugs, not smuggling drugs, but addiction. So
let's say Andy, for example, Andy Irons, I don't
know what he was taking specifically, but if
he was caught with something he shouldn't have
had, then he would go to prison. And that's really
driven people into the shadows that are battling
mental health issues and using illicit drugs
to... fill whatever void there is and also it
empowers as you said all the violence that you
know the the gangs and the death and the the
dealing and the smuggling and all that stuff
so And with Portugal, what they did, they ended
up, like I said, decriminalizing. Those addicts
now get fed through a medical system. They become
a patient, a mental health patient. And they
go through addiction counseling and job creation
and all these things. And within less than 10
years, they completely revolutionized their country
from the worst addiction rate in the whole of
Europe to the best one, the lowest one. So, you
know, the more kind of stories I hear from around
the world, like a lot of the military that are
over in Afghanistan say, well, yeah, no, we see
firsthand that this illicit drug trade funds
terrorism. You know, there's a direct correlation.
So there's just all these different stories and
they all layer. And it's so tragic that, you
know, you're living in yet another place. It's
riddled with the criminal effects of empowering.
thugs through this. And if we could just take
these addiction issues and put them through the
medical side, there also wouldn't be that woo
factor that you're talking about. It wouldn't
be cool because it would just be a medical thing.
It's the same as a medical marijuana. Use it
as a painkiller. Okay, great. That's much better
than opiates. But, you know, it breaks my heart
hearing, whether it's the UK, whether it's South
Africa, whether it's Hawaii, that this one policy
that started out the US has affected so many
countries around the world. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
North Shore, anyway, that's back to that story.
North Shore was just radical. If you weren't
doing it, you weren't getting the girls. You
weren't hanging out at the good parties. You
weren't hanging out with the cool guys. And not
that any of that mattered to me when I was a
kid growing up because it's different on the
west side as it is on the North Shore. Especially
during the winter on the North Shore where it's
like, look at me, look at me. Everybody's in
town. Pro surfing world is in town. Everybody's
partying and, you know, surfing all day and barbecuing
at night and partying at night. I mean, that
was the norm. And, you know, I was single at
the time and just gotten divorced. And I was
like, yeah, it's going to hang out. And the next
thing you know, you're doing it. You're doing
it. Just to be in with the big kids, you know,
I guess. Yeah. I was around it a lot. Here's
another funny story. My grandfather was a police
officer all his life. From 1950s to 1987, I think
it was, when he retired. And none of his sons
have ever gotten busted. And my uncle... was
a Vietnam helicopter pilot. He was an officer
too. He was the guy in the Green Harvest helicopter
flying around all over Hawaii looking for people
with marijuana plants in their yard. And he would
always land the helicopter in my grandfather's
property up in Makaha, landed in the property,
come have lunch in the house with my grandparents
and me when I was a little kid. And then get
back in the helicopter and take off. As he's
walking to the helicopter, there was marijuana
everywhere. There's plants all over my grandfather's
yard. He'd just walk right by. I mean, but I
was very, very, very strict on myself up until
I was 30. And then, you know, then I went to
crap and, you know. That's the story. My mom
worked at her dad's t -shirt factory. They sold
wholesale t -shirts. She was gone at 7 in the
morning. My dad was gone at 6 in the morning.
He was a carpenter, construction worker, carpenter,
framer, all his career. He would be home at 4.
Working in the sun all day, he would just go
in the back, pop a beer, smoke a cigarette, smoke
a joint, you know, and then my mom would come
home. Same thing, just go in the back, smoke
a cigarette, smoke a joint. It was the normal
every day, every day of my life. And once I did
my chores, if I was good to go, I was out that
door. I was going either football practice. basketball
practice, or the beach. Those are my escapes.
And it wasn't really an escape. It was just because,
you know, if I did everything I could and they
were doing their own thing, I knew I had to be
home when the sun was down. And I did that almost
every day from the time I was, I don't even know,
nine, eight. I don't even know. I used to walk
to school at five years old, like a mile. We
all used to meet each other at one house, cross
the highway with cars, and walk a mile to school.
Maybe half a mile. It wasn't a mile, but maybe
half a mile. It felt like a mile to your five
-year -old legs. Yeah, I did everything on my
own, pretty much. Me, all of our friends, it
was just a totally different time. see and that's
interesting as well when you think about it when
you're a kid and my son is exactly the same he's
next door right now but you know when he goes
out when his friends all congregate they're out
till you know the sun's gone down and you know
what a great positive outlet you you're outside
you're exercising you're with the tribe you know
with your group and as we get older you know
we tend to lean more into like you said the television
the beer the you know, some of the less healthy
coping mechanisms. And it's intriguing. Like,
at what point do we lose that desire just to
go out and be amongst people and enjoy, you know,
being present, playing a game, being amongst
nature versus staring at a TV and, you know,
sipping on a Budweiser? Right. Yeah, I don't
know. I don't know where that changed, where
that turned. The invention of an iPhone pretty
much screwed all that stuff. Well, speaking of
television, obviously there's an upside. That
ended up being an industry that you worked in
as well. And I know it was the Waterman crafts
that were your specialty. So tell me about your
journey within the ocean itself, whether it was
surfing, whether it was lifeguarding. How did
that path unfold? Yeah, so when I was a kid,
when we were kids, we were all boogie boarders.
And we took it. a bunch of us took it to the
level of like competing in high school you know
events and semi -pro and pro surf contests and
my best friend and i wasn't i was working at
a department store at the time and a taco bell
and i was managing a taco bell and my best friend
decided he was going to try to be a lifeguard
and i'm like Oh, cool, because it was with all
the people that, you know, we've taken life -saving
classes with before, the famous Brian Carolina,
the famous Mel Poo, the famous Dennis Govea,
like the famous Terry Ahui. Those four guys are
the guys that invented Jet Ski Rescue. If somebody
in the world tells you they invented jet ski
rescue, they're bullshitting you. They're lying
because it was invented by those four guys. And
we like to call them the forefathers sometimes,
and we call them, you know, all kinds of different
things. But those are the four guys that started
it. And so when my friend was like, yeah, I'm
going to go to lifeguard, I'm like, oh, yeah,
that sounds kind of fun. But I wasn't in any
shape to go try. Because I was at a department
store and I was eating Taco Bell every damn day.
You know what I mean? I mean, I'm pretty thin
and I've been thin all my life, but I was not
in shape. So he went and did it and he passed.
And six months goes by and he's like, Craig,
there's another test. You should do it. I'm like,
man, OK, I'll go do it. And I did. And I barely
passed. Barely passed. I think it was like. It's
25 minutes to pass the run, swim, 1 ,000 -meter
run, 1 ,000 -meter swim. I think I finished like
24, 30 or something. I barely passed. I barely
made it. But my ocean skills and the life that
we live being in the ocean all as kids, to me,
that was more valuable. I think they saw that
it was more valuable. And then they got recommendations
from me. all you know brian and everybody else
like hey you guys gotta get crager in and you
know this might be something good because we're
all we were all their students we're all their
students were young and i passed okay perfect
i go in the class i make the class i pass so
this is like i said the time when they were this
was 1990 i think it was when they were just doing
research development, whole jet ski rescue thing,
making sleds, making rescue sleds, coming up
with all these techniques. We were doing around
the island rides just to build stamina. We were
like, and I was lucky enough to, because I was
around those guys all the time as a kid, I was
lucky enough to. Tag along me and Jason my from
my best friend. We were lucky enough to tag along
and Become proteges, you know and at the time
there was no test to be a rescue operator Now
there is because because of equal rights and
you know all these rules that you have but at
the time there was no test and The forefathers
handpicked the operators. And I can tell you
now that at the time, Jason and myself and a
couple other guys from the North Shore that were
handpicked turned out to be the best guys, like
the best second generation of guys. Because you
had, you know, Brad, the forefathers could recognize,
you know, That guy can ride. His timing's good.
He's not afraid to bust through a wave. He's
not afraid to go in and save somebody. He's not
afraid to risk his life. They could pick that
out. And so lucky enough, Jason and I were the,
I think the second two that were picked. The
first two were from the North Shore and they
were picked. And we lasted, the first four of
us lasted a long time. We went. 25 years and
jason's still a lifeguard and but the other guy
one guy dropped out because he he got a better
job uh but three of us went 25 and plus years
being jet ski operators and that was the handpicked
guys but yeah and so yeah that's where i became
a lifeguard and i thought we thought this is
a good story you're gonna love this we thought
we were the shit and am i allowed to swear oh
yes please it's it's okay so we thought we thought
we were the baddest guys on the planet right
we're with brian kill on on we're riding jet
skis and it's like baywatch you know and you
know i don't know if baywatch is around but we
were like we were the guys Everybody sees us.
Get all the glory, they say, because we're on
the jet skis and we're saving all the people.
Three years into it, three or four years into
being a lifeguard, and at the time we were wearing
gold earrings for some reason, gold chains, like
little gold chains and gold earrings for some
reason. I don't even know why. It was just the
time we were doing that. And we're lifeguarding.
And, you know, we're working out every day, like
every day, pretty fit kids. And one day the waves
were giant, 25 feet giant Makaha. North Shore
was closing out and they needed an extra jet
ski. So they sent Dennis Govale and Jason Patterson,
my best friend, to the North Shore. And Brian
Carolina and I stayed out over here at Makaha
because North Shore was so big they wanted two
units. And so we were at Makaha and Brian surfing
and I'm on the jet ski picking them up and picking
up people and saving people and doing all the
normal stuff. And we would just take turns surfing.
And at the time, Brian Carolina was one of the
best big wave surfers in the world. I mean, he
was the man. water safety legend captain rescue
operator inventor of jet skis big wave surfer
like and he was a he was starting to do movies
and become you know a professional stuntman and
we get this call and it's swimmer in distress
on it which is The end of the road over here
on the west side. Some people call it Yokohama.
But we know it as Keauvaula. And so we ditched
a surfboard on the beach. We raced down there.
And we don't know where this guy is. Nobody knows.
And back then, the radios, the communication
sucked. Like, really bad. Sucked. And we get
down there. And this guy is in a cave called
the Moiho. he's in it. And we've, Brian and Melvin
used to take us in the Moyho, and we'd come up
with ideas and ways to reverse the jet ski in
the Moyho. And at the time, you're like, it's
flat, it's small, you know, oh, this is easy,
this is nothing. This is fricking ducks who,
well, that day, 20 foot waves plus, it was the
scariest moments of my life. lifeguard career.
I thought I was going to die. And here I am with
the legend Brian Carolina. And this guy, we find
out, is stuck in the cave. He's inside the cave.
And Brian's like, I've got to swim in. I'm like,
you're crazy. You've got to swim in. And mind
you, he's just been surfing for like two hours.
Giant waves. And he's like, I got to swim in.
I got to go check. And he checks, and the guy
is screaming, and he's in the cave. I'm like,
oh, my gosh. We're going to die. I said, and
Brian was, he would swim back on the ski. He's
like, yeah, he's in there. And I'm like, okay,
what do we do? Like, I don't know what to do.
You know, I'm just scared shitless with my fins
on, my stupid gold chain, and my stupid earrings.
The guy, anyway, is in there for, I think he
ended up being in there for three hours. But
as we were trying to rescue him, our skis started
taking in water. And the next thing you know,
our ski is dead. And so Brian tells me to swim
the ski, because we were trained to do that,
tie the rescue buoy to the front, swim it out
in the deep water. And mind you now, it's a scene.
It's hundreds of people on the reef, helicopters,
fire department, lifeguards. It is a scene. And
they call for a backup ski. And here I am in
the middle of the ocean, like a quarter mile
out, swimming the ski back towards Makaha Way,
which is where the lifeguard tower was. And Brian
swims up on the reef. He times it, gets up on
the reef, and is waiting. waiting for the next
ski to come because he's going to get in the
lifeguard truck, drive back to the lifeguard
tower, launch the next jet ski, and come with
somebody else to go save the guy. Well, anyway,
the guy comes out. He comes out one time, and
I wasn't there. I was still swimming in the ski.
I was in the middle of the ocean. Luckily for
me, the fire department helicopter comes, drops
a rope to me. and I tie it to the front of the
ski, and he drags me all the way up to the, almost
to the trailer of the lifeguard truck. He drags
me all the way to the road. We bail the water
out. We do all that. We get in the truck. We
go back. Apparently, the guy came out. They couldn't
get him because the sets were coming. He went
right back in, went back in the cave. Another
30 minutes or so, the guy comes back out again.
Now we're all there, we're all looking. And Brian
and Earl Bungle, who was on the sled at the time
after me, they grab him and they save him. So
now we all get in the truck again because they've
got to go back towards the lifeguard tower to
bring him up. So we all, everybody's happy, everybody's...
And we get him on the beach. And there's a video
of this. You can see a video. And Jason and I
are there because Jason and Dennis drove all
the way back from the North Shore to come help
us because we needed the help. You know, we were
there for three hours plus. And you can see in
this video our stupid gold chain dangling as
we're putting oxygen on this guy, as we're like,
And what it made me realize was I thought I was
a shit. I wasn't even near the shit. I wasn't
even near the top of what I saw Brian Catalano
doing. Swimming in the cave, screaming for help.
Here I am reversing the jet ski, making sure
I'm close. Like not even realize what I'm doing,
but like just watching what he was doing and
understanding that. Even after three years of
lifeguarding with all his dumbass gold chains,
dumbass earrings, I wasn't even close to what
he was. And I thought in my head, I want to be
exactly like that by the time, you know, I leave
lifeguarding. I want to be just like Brian Kellum.
And people always tease me about, oh, you know,
you're always following Brian. You know, you
got to work in the movies and all that shit.
Yeah. I mean, who wouldn't? If you were like
looking up to somebody to idolize when I was
a kid, that was the guy. So after we rescued
that guy or he rescued that guy, him and Earl,
I realized I wasn't even near what I wanted to
be. I got rid of gold chains, got rid of gold
earrings, and I haven't worn them since. Well,
that's such a great story, though, because it
pulls out two things that I hear again and again
from people that have actually achieved a huge
amount. And the first is humility. I think that's
a very, very dangerous kind of frame of mind
when you think you know it all, when you think
you're the shit, as you said. And it happens
in all professions. But the other thing is once
you've learned to be humble, you need that mentor
figure. You need that person who walks the walk,
who's usually probably so humble they don't even
think they are the mentor, but they are. So,
Brian, you know, you found yourself a role model
who clearly was willing to teach as well, but
actually walked the walk through his whole entire
career. Yeah. You know, and it made me realize
that I wasn't, like I said, we're on the beach.
working in lifeguard cars, checking out girls,
gold chain, gold earring. Excuse me. None of
that meant anything. Nothing at all. Because
I wanted to be at that level. Because I didn't
want to be a scaredy cat going, oh my gosh, Brian,
you're going to die if you swim in that cave.
Because I told him that. I'm like, Brian, you're
going to die. I also told him, if your dad was
here, he would tell you not to swim in that cave
because, true story, it happened to his dad 20
years, I think, to the year somebody else was
in that cave. And Brian's dad, Buffalo Carolina,
wanted to swim in there. I think it was with,
like, football pads maybe. Brian could tell you
that. But, like, he wanted to go in there with
football pads or a helmet or something. and swim
in and get somebody, and they couldn't get him.
They wouldn't let him. And I think they had to
fish the guy out with a big giant fish hook or
something days later or something. I forget.
I don't know the whole story, but Brian could
tell you that. So I was telling Brian, if your
dad was here, he would wring your neck and tell
you not to go in. But he didn't care. He didn't
care. All he cared about was saving this guy's
life. It made me realize, like you said, that
I wasn't even close to being the lifeguard that
I thought I was. Not even close. But it gave
me somebody to look forward to and look at and
be like, that's who I want to be like. So let
me ask you this. So you had that humility moment.
Obviously, Brian lent on the fact that he had.
taking his job seriously and constantly worked
on his fitness and his skills and his big wave
surfing and his jet ski skills to the point where
it culminated to the fact where he was able to
facilitate that rescue. So what did you change?
What was your mindset shift? What were the differences
between the day before that event and then the
years after? Well, we trained a lot. We trained.
We trained a lot, and we did a lot of extreme
stuff together. Running rocks. I mean, Brian,
you know, he started running rocks before anybody
was running rocks. I mean, underwater. We were
running rocks at 40 feet, going down 40 feet,
no fins, running the rock like 15 yards at the
most, and then swimming up without blacking out.
I mean, we're doing stuff every single day to
make us better. Treading water for hours, doing
all these oddball fun water training exercises,
but like training. I would do like 200 pull -ups
every day. I built a pull -up station behind
the lifeguard tower just to do pull -ups every
day, like just to be in shape. Jason was running
the beach every single day for... Years. I mean,
we're trying to be as in shape and physically
fit and mentally ready as much as we could to
get to that level. Because he was on a different
level. They were on a different level. Not only
him, but like Melvin and Dennis and Terry Hui
and all those guys. They were just on a different
level. And we all wanted to be like that. And
so we changed. We changed. you know just work
we just worked out more a whole lot more well
i think it's a very powerful leadership um an
example you know the the issue we have sometimes
in at least in the profession profession i was
in there was some leaders that absolutely walked
the walk that i would follow into a burning building
any day without questioning but there was a lot
that didn't you know and so With him inspiring
you constantly, with him constantly having the
humility to constantly be chasing his own excellence,
which you never achieve. It's an unending goal.
But for him and even Jason Bitsa, who connected
us, I mean, he's been lifeguarding for years
and listening to him talking about his training
and his fitness. I think that's such a powerful
thing that is understood. With the lifeguarding
in Hawaii, you know, the beach lifeguards that
I think we could learn a lot from in the fire
service and law enforcement where, you know,
lives depend on us. And sometimes it's lost,
which blows my mind. But, you know, for you,
losing someone because you got tired trying to
swim out to them is unacceptable. And for us,
losing someone because we got tired on the way
to wherever they were trapped is exactly the
same thing. Right. Right. Yeah. It's just, yeah.
I'm going to lose some. I've lost a lot of people.
But it's part of the nature of our profession.
And lifeguards in Hawaii, they're totally underpaid.
Totally. We've been underpaid forever. I mean,
you think about when Brian left. You know, in
1994, I think it was, or no, it was 98 maybe,
he left because he got work on Waterworld. He
got picked to go to Waterworld, him and Terry
Ahui. And they were supposed to go for eight
weeks, and they left for eight months. And it
opened their eyes, and it realized, okay, I'm
making $40 ,000 as a lifeguard lieutenant, but
I just made... four times, five times the amount
in eight months. What am I doing? So, and that
was the end of Brian. After that, he was done.
He early retired and he left and he became a
professional stuntman and was traveling the world
and doing all these movies and that's kind of
where it led, it started to lead us because you
know, he would start getting TV shows and movies
now as a stunt coordinator. And of course he's
going to hire all his boys because he trusts
all of us. And so that's kind of where it led,
led me to that transition from lifeguarding to,
to being a stunt man and being a stunt rigger.
Now it's like it, Open doors. When he left, it
opened doors, for sure. And I humbly admit that
I am probably the biggest benefactor of him being
a stuntman. I wanted to do the same thing. And
so I would save all my... And I'm not supposed
to say this, but I would just take off and, hey,
I got a job. I don't tell them what I'm doing.
I'm like, I need off, you know, I need this day
off. I need that day off. And I did that for
a long time until I didn't have enough. I didn't
have enough leave or vacation or anything. And
I got an opportunity to go to China for four
months. And I was like, and I was two years from
retiring. And I'm like, and you're making double
the pay in China because it's China. I'm like,
okay, maybe it's time to leave the department.
And that's when I left. And that was 2015. And
I was getting busier and busier and busier. Not
only doing stuff with Brian, but stuff with other
people. And it was to a point where I had to
make a decision. And my wife and I, we decided
that it was time to leave. Two years from retirement,
which people are going to hear this and go, oh
my gosh, you should have just stayed in two years.
Well, you don't understand that I wasn't contributing
to my retirement. It was just a normal city and
county, 1 .5 % or whatever it is, 2 .5 % or whatever
it was. If I waited, I would have made somewhere
around $1 ,100 or $1 ,200 a month. If I waited
and... stayed in the lifeguard department. It
wasn't worth it for me to stay for that. It really
wasn't. Because when I reach age, I'm going to
get it anyway. And what am I going to do with
it? Probably split it between both my kids, give
her half, give the other one half. The opportunity
wasn't worth me staying as a lifeguard. I don't
know if it's early retirement or I quit, but
I tell people I just quit. You know, I went to
China for four months and that led me to what
I do today and the doors that it's open for me.
And, you know, I try to shy away from doing the
water stuff because, and people always ask me,
how come you're not doing the water stuff anymore?
Because 10 years ago, I realized that, When the
stunt industry started doing stunt rigging, instead
of letting special effects do the stunt rigging,
they created a stunt rigging department. And
10 years ago, I was like, there's nobody in Hawaii.
Nobody in Hawaii doing that. So I started collecting
a little bit of stuff. Started dabbling into
it, figuring out, learning. On jobs, every time
I went to different jobs, learning the craft,
learning the knots they tie, learning what kind
of equipment and who they buy it from. And so
I started shying away from doing the water. Now,
there's a couple of reasons. That was one reason.
The second reason is I was getting older. I was
getting a little older. And there is a dime a
dozen talented water men. on this island. I'm
talking hundreds. I mean, Brian Carolina and
his nephews alone, that's five, six right there.
His brother Rusty, that's another one. Mel Poo,
that's another one. I mean, you're talking like
a lineage of a line of excellent water guys that
could do that job. So if I'm already doing stunts
and performing, and stunt rigging, imagine if
I did the water safety also, and I'm taking all
of that just for myself. What is that going to
do for my friends and other people that I love
and care? You know, they're going to be mad.
They're going to be pissed off. Wow, freaking
Craig, he's taking all the jobs. What's going
on? So I try to shy away from the water stuff.
Not saying that I won't do another Waterworld
if it ever happens. Of course, I'll be there.
But I wanted to give other people opportunities
to work and make money also because I was already
making money. I was already on a different path
to stunt rigging, which is what I really love
to do. But that's where I am now. I have my own
trailer. I have equipment in there. I built my
own firing boxes. I have air cylinders and lots
of hard work into my little 20 -foot trailer.
It's so good to hear, firstly, from the transition
point of view because I've talked about this
myself. In the fire service and law enforcement
in the U .S., one of the carrots on the stick
is the pension. If that's your only motivator,
there's a lot of people in this profession that
just want to do it their full career because
they love it. And that's exactly what should
happen. But if you're chasing a certain retirement
year because that's when you hit 25 or that's
when you're in the drop program or whatever it
is, but you're miserable and you've got a countdown
app on your... phone just counting away the days
you know you're going to do the bare minimum
on the job and you're not going to be happy so
you know for me i adore the fire service but
you know i i came to a crossroads where basically
the universe kind of boxed me into a corner and
was like all right you know it's time for you
to to transition to it to helping in a different
way and i found myself here but i think it's
an important thing for people to hear just because
traditionally a profession works for x amount
of years doesn't mean you need to we we applaud
the military when they serve for four eight years
wow that's incredible but then as you said but
oh craig quit no you know you you were a lifeguard
you'll always be a lifeguard and your chapter
was x amount of years my chapter was x amount
of years but i don't i don't consider myself
quitting or retiring early i just transitioned
to a different profession so i applaud you for
that personally Right. And like you said, towards
the ending of my lifeguard career, I decided
to sit in the lifeguard tower at a beach, at
Maile Beach. And most of the time that I was
in the tower, sadly, I wasn't paying attention
because my mind was so, was thinking about when
is my next movie job going to be? So my passion
for lifeguarding was already diminishing and
it was already not there. Oh, if something happened,
of course, I would respond and do something.
But I wasn't being my best. I wasn't being my
best towards the ending of my career. I wasn't
being the best lifeguard because I wasn't watching
as much. I wasn't being as proactive. I wasn't
as passionate as, like you said. But it took
me leaving lifeguarding. that profession, leaving
it to appreciate it more. It really made me love
it more when I was not doing it. Because like
I said, I was sitting in the tower making phone
calls and finding out who's doing the next movie
and emailing my resume and my headshot. That's
what I was doing most of the time when I was
sitting in the lifeguard towards the ending of
my career. Yeah, I mean, I can see a parallel,
you know, in so many people, myself included,
when I was doing the podcast, you know, that
became more and more of a distraction for me.
I know a lot of people that ran their businesses
from their firehouse, you know, and that's a
very important time for us to look in the mirror
and say, you know, would someone else, a new
fresh person in the seat, serve the profession
better at this point? And again, it's not quitting.
It's not giving up. It's like, how's this particular
position where I fill one spot in one chair,
run its course, and is it time for me to go and
transition into something? Whether you're a force
multiplier position, whether you change careers,
whatever it is. But yeah, I mean, I think if
you're not all in, that's a very dangerous place
in the professions that we inhabit. Yeah, it
is. Yeah, you don't realize that when you're
not all in, you're really endangering not only
the public, but yourself also. Not working out,
just sitting in the lifeguard car, eating food,
just hanging out. You don't realize that until
I was gone. Oh, my gosh. Could have been working
out. Could have been helping people a little
bit more. I mean, nothing happened. Thank God.
Well, let me ask you about this then. So what
was an interesting kind of cross -pollination?
And Jason was telling me about Brian being one
of the men who developed the jet ski stunts that
became the Waterworld jet ski stunts. The company
I work for now, Action Horizons, I do the Jason
Bourne stunt show in Orlando. They are also the
company that do the Waterworld stunt show in
LA and Osaka, Japan. I think in Shanghai as well.
They were doing it in Shanghai. So tell me about
that. You were in lifeguarding. Tell me about
your journey into the stunt world. And I've been
lucky. I've been so lucky. I've been so blessed.
To be in the position that I am now and being
on all these big movies. I just finished almost
seven months on the latest Spider -Man. I've
been really blessed. I've done Black Panther.
I've done both Jumanji's, both Jurassic World's.
I've done Guardians of the Galaxy. I've done
a lot of cool films. But my journey started,
I think it was in 1997 when we were doing Baywatch.
I think it was Baywatch. I'm not sure if it was
Baywatch or Pearl Harbor. I can't figure out
when I got my sidecar. But I think it was Baywatch.
And we were just doing water safety at the time.
And the stunt coordinator at the time, his name
was Greg Barnett. And he asked me if I wanted
to be a... like a it was a man trapped on the
side of a mountain next to the ocean and it was
at a place called spinning cave over here on
the east side people dies people die all the
time at speeding cave every year somebody two
three people die it's high it's like 45 feet
high or something and it goes into a little narrow
passageway into a cave and it's on the roughest
side of the island it's rough it's windy and
rough and It's horrible. So I said, yeah, sure,
why not? I'm going to act scared, make pretend
I'm trapped on the side of this mountain. They
have me on a line just for safety so I don't
accidentally fall. I was totally fine. And then
I just slip and jump and fall and land in the
ocean. And here comes the Baywatch crew. They
come pick me up and put me on the boat. and do
cpr they actually did cpr on me i forgot forgot
about that and it was actually jason momoa who
actually was putting his lips on mine i i remember
that also but you make a little female female
i may be male uh listeners jealous right now
right right and so that was when i i'm pretty
sure that's when i got my side something really
really like that was my first I think that was
my first time but I think I'm 100 % wrong but
then we did Pearl Harbor we did all these other
shows and Pearl Harbor was fun to do I did not
work that much I think I like worked like a week
or something and at the time everybody was working
you know all these legend Hollywood stuntman
legends were there. And I have no idea what it
was like to learn the business, to hustle somebody.
You really had to self -promote yourself. And
I wasn't good at that at the time. I was this
humble guy from the West Side. And I would just
be like, yeah, whatever. I get whatever work
I got. It's all good. I make some money. But
if I knew what I knew now, I would have did it
differently for sure, but it, it happened the
way it happened. And that was cool, you know,
but, um, and then we did Baywatch and we, I mean,
not Baywatch, we did blue crush and all those
other movies. And, and then, uh, battleship was
coming to Hawaii and battleship was big. I mean,
it was $200 million film, I think. And it was
a lot of, it was a big film. The stunt coordinator
was coming here, and I think Brian was doing
a show, and somehow my name got dropped, and
the stunt coordinator asked me to be the assistant
stunt coordinator for Hawaii and to wrangle the
guys and to get the guys' resumes and headshots,
and then we can place them in their positions
or whatever. And that was my first real big taste
of a big production. It was giant. It was radical.
And it was high stress. And my wife was pregnant
with our second child. And it was a little stress
for me. I lost a lot of weight on that movie.
I lost a ton of weight. And I wasn't working
out. And I was working every single day for four
months. And my wife, we had our baby two days
before the first day of shooting. It was just
my first taste of a big, giant production, being
somewhat in charge of certain things, the water
safety and the jet skis, and then finding all
the Navy guys to be in the water because I had
to find people that could swim. They couldn't
be just regular extras. They had to be specialty
extras. But yeah, that was my first real taste
of a big show. And then, of course, Hawaii Five
-0 started. And I worked a lot. I worked a lot
of Hawaii Five -0 the first every season, all
the way until season 10. First seven seasons,
I just performed and did a lot of bad guy roles
and driving cars, chases. You know, I didn't
do any rigging at all, but I was kind of collecting
rigging stuff at the time, like I said earlier.
And then season seven or eight, they switched
stunt coordinators. And next thing you know,
the new stunt coordinator was like, you're going
to be my rigger because I was rigging a little
bit more. I already got to China to rig. the
Great Wall, and I'd already done other movies,
rigging, and I was deep already into buying all
this equipment, but I didn't have a trailer.
And the new stunt coordinator for Hawaii Five
-0 said, you're going to be my rigger. You're
here. I'm like, oh my gosh, I need a trailer,
because I can't just keep carrying all my stuff
in my truck. It's in containers. It was ridiculous.
And so I found it. I actually found the trailer.
started building out my trailer. And then in
the last three seasons of Hawaii Five -0, the
stunt coordinator actually paid off everything
that I owned. He paid it all off. The trailer,
the equipment that I had. By the third season
that he was here, he had paid me enough to pay
off my trip. Which led me to buy more, of course,
buy more and buy more and buy more. And I built
my own ratchet firing boxes, which is what we
use to fly people. And you see people flying
in the air or flying through walls. Sometimes
you do it on a ladder, on a hand pole, on a line.
You just jerk the person. And sometimes you put
them on a ratchet. And I have my own ratchets
now. And I have a decel cylinder, which I can
drop somebody off a building, which I've done
a few times here. And, you know, I don't even
want to do anything else. And it's kind of ironic.
It's kind of saving lives. If you think about
it, it's kind of saving lives, but in a different
way. And I'm kind of in that transition where
I'm really passionate about it. Kind of like
how I was after I lost all my earrings and my
gold chain. It's the same way now that I am with
rigging. That's how serious I am. That's how
I'm always in my trailer. My wife is always like,
you're always in your man cave. I'm like, yeah,
because I'm constantly fixing things, changing
things, making sure it's working, making sure
it's, you know, nothing's breaking, making sure.
everything's clean and good and all that stuff.
It's the same way I did with lifeguarding. It's,
I was training, I was working out. I was, my,
my tools were my body. That was my tools. And
Brian Carolina always said it. You're only as
good as, uh, wait, you're only as good as, darn
it. I forget the, I forget what he says, but
like he would always train you. And if you were
on the jet ski, here we go, that's just a machine.
What if the machine breaks? How are you going
to survive if that machine breaks? And that's
the same with me with rigging. It's the same.
I'm always in there fixing stuff. It's just the
tools are not my body anymore. The tools is my
equipment. Well, it's fascinating as well hearing
that through line because it's what I was saying
earlier about going from physically being a firefighter,
paramedic, having my own hands on the tools,
on the patient, whatever it is, to using this
platform to try and make the environment that
our men and women work in safer, to promote the
health stuff, the safety stuff, the mental health
stuff, you know, through the guests that I get
on. And, you know, you talked about that ownership
now of your skills, knowing that other stunt
performers' lives depend on your ownership of
your craft, your master of your craft. And I've
had a couple of, well, I've had a guest on the
show, Olivia Jackson, who was near fatally wounded
on the Resident Evil production. She lost her
arm and, you know, just an incredible woman.
And then one of the stunt guys I work with now,
Josh, he had a really bad ratchet accident where
it misfired and he ended up being like dragged
into a marble wall and, you know, completely
caved his face in and really, really awful. Another
near fatal accident. So talk to me about. um
you know obviously you're on that mission to
make it as safe as possible what are some of
the the dark sides of the stunt world and how
can how can that be addressed and made safer
for our stunt performers oh darn that's a that's
a deep question that i haven't even even thought
of i try it is scary tell you it's scary when
you have someone on the line and he's jumping
off a building At the time, I had two of the
best stunt riggers in the business with me because
I had to have them here. It was nerve -wracking.
Our performer did it three times, and it was
one time too many. For me, in that case, I surrounded
myself with the people that I know. that have
the experience running a diesel cylinder, knowing
what to do, but also learning and understanding
what they're doing. I mean, using all the right
equipment, making sure everything is up to spec.
You don't use any, you know, cheap stuff from
the Home Depot. You don't use any of that stuff.
It's all like... Those things, I mean, I think
that's all you can do. I mean, and Brian is a
good, he's trained in, he's trained by the Army,
I think, in risk assessment. And he transferred
that over to the lifeguards at one point. And
that makes a huge difference when we carry it
over to the stunt business. You might think it's
overkill when we have a pad pit that's three
times the size of what it should be, but he's
always preparing for the worst what if. And if
you set it up a way that you know it's two or
three times bigger than it should be, then that's
fine. You know, that's one thing that carried
over from the lifeguarding side was that risk
assessment thing, that class that we took with
Brian. It's just understanding what all the hazards
are, all the dangers, and how you're going to
manage those dangers and assess all those dangers
and how you're going to minimize the injury.
And that carries over to the same with... with
stunts and stunt rigging. Like I said, you got
to have the right people there. You got to have
the right equipment. You got to have the knowledge
and the education in your mind. And if your team
doesn't have it, then you got to educate it and
let them know why and what you're doing and what's
going on and everything so they know and they
understand. That's the only thing I, you know,
accident, knock on wood, it hasn't, happened
to me yet. And I've been very, very blessed,
very lucky to be surrounded by and working with
the best stunt riggers in the business. Yeah,
you reminded me of another friend of mine. I
did a pirate stunt show in Orlando, actually
in LA as well. And they introduced a high fall
into the show. And one of my friends was just
climbing down from the rigging in this particular
piece of set. It's like crow's nest. And he got
tangled up and he fell. And that particular pit
was tiny. I mean, like a postage stamp. And it
was only an 18 -foot fall that I would do. But
the pit was only like a foot wider than the pad.
And he ended up falling. And he wasn't deliberately
falling. But because of the fact that the pit
wasn't right underneath where we were, he actually
fell and landed on the corner on his back on
the actual stage itself and ended up breaking
his back, basically. Luckily, he wasn't paralyzed.
Building in that redundancy of safety, I think
that's a danger when there are corners cut. And
I see a complete parallel between the stunt world,
which I basically did right from when I became
a firefighter. So those two professions have
been parallel. But as you said, the right equipment,
the right training, the right competency of skills.
No one should be doing high falls that's only
done them a few times. I think we've got a mutual
friend, Steve Shriver, who I work with in Japan.
Oh, I love Steve. Phenomenal diver. He was a
diver in that particular role, and rightly so.
All those guys were top, world -class high divers.
So taking those lessons from the fire service
and applying them to the stunt world or vice
versa, it's been very interesting to see when
we lose people on either side, If you reverse
engineer it, it's probably exactly what you were
saying, the absence of, the absence of quality
equipment, the absence of training, the absence
of mastery of that craft, and you have this perfect
storm that results in a death. And a little bit
of complacency, too, you know, thinking, oh,
yeah, this guy is super experienced. He can do
it. And then, yeah, we don't need that. We don't
need it to be that big of a pit wall. That's
not the way to think. You got to think if he
does screw up, even if he's one of the best in
the world, if he does screw up, what's going
to happen? And that comes from, like I said,
the risk assessment class that we took and understand.
We did it for the beaches. We did it for every
beach. Brian made us draw pictures of every single
beach during every single season, where all the
hazards are, identify all the hazards. and then
come up with a plan if somebody was to be in
the area what you would do before it even happened
it might not ever ever happened happen but he
made you draw up pictures of all the beaches
just so you'd be prepared if you were there or
if you came to a rescue on the jet ski like oh
i gotta go here i can't go there you know that
that was that's all from from that Yeah, that's
something I've talked about a lot on here. With
especially the special operations community,
they will plan their A, B, and C because they're
going off and doing a certain mission. Well,
what if it goes wrong? What if we have to go
on foot? Like you said, you're falling back to
your lowest common denominator, your plan B,
plan C. You're not using the machines, you're
using that body now. But the more complacent
department that I worked for, polar opposite
well it's never happened therefore it won't happen
instead of it's never happened therefore the
chances of happening are higher like statistically
so we have to try and what if all these scenarios
we can't cover them all but at least if you can
kind of enter each of those realms and you train
for that then god forbid it happens in real life
you have some sort of structure to hang your
plan on right you know i'll go back i'll go back
a little bit when we did our Rescue operator
final test. And it was Jason, my best friend
Jason and I. And mind you, we had already seen
what the first test was going to be like because
I said we were a second group to get handpicked.
So we already knew all the intricacies of what
was going to be in the test because we were there
as the... as the patients when they did the first
test with the first two guys. Okay. And we did
our test. We passed it. It's all good. We, you
know, we get bumps and bruises and it was kind
of like, eh, because we already knew everything.
Fast forward till, till, till last year, I think
it was. And it's a whole different group of,
uh, instructors, uh, whole class of, uh, prospective
rescue operators, potential rescue operators.
And the instructors, they're our friends. They've
been lifeguards forever. They were rescue operators
coming up when we were leaving. And he's now
the instructor. And one of our friends was in
the class. He's a younger kid. He's always asking
me and Brian for advice. You know, what about
this? What about that? He really wanted to be
a rescue operator. And we try to help him as
best we can. He's like our cousin. We're like
cousins, you know. He's Brian's cousin, but I've
paddled with his family forever. And so he calls
and he texts and I forget. You know, my biggest
advice to him was to understand not only what...
what you what your body can do like you know
one it's just a machine you know you got to train
to survive if the machine breaks blah blah blah
i did all that but the machine is in top working
condition my advice to him was to learn what
you can do on the machine with the machine because
at the end of the day when you get into a situation
where oh my gosh there's a there's one man short
break in front of me uh what do i do well in
your training class that's what you're supposed
to do is learn how to go through all that stuff
they do they do to a certain extent yeah they
go through waves and they break through waves
but they wouldn't the instructor wouldn't deviate
from what was in the book this so -called book
right there's a book that Everybody invented
this manual, just scheme manual. And it's just
standards. And he wouldn't deviate from that.
And I'm like, dude, you know, all we did was
he goes, oh, we did one person rescue. I mean,
two person rescue on conscience. He told us all
these things. And then our response back was,
hey, did you do one person rescue? And he's like,
oh, no, our instructor didn't want us to do that.
And we're like, why? And it's because he didn't
want to deviate from the manual. And it's not
a normal, it's not in the manual. But Brian and
I are like, yeah, but you guys ride the jet ski
all by yourself sometimes. What if you drive
up to somebody and he's face down and you're
by yourself? And there's a wave coming. How are
you going to get the guy up if you don't know
how to get the guy up? And so it bummed me out
because I was taught that way by Brian and the
forefathers. I was taught that way to think worst
case scenario. They put us at Sunset Beach and
they go, okay, you're by yourself. And it's windy
today. And there's surf today. And the waves
are five foot sunset. And there's your victim
right in the middle over there. What are you
going to do? And you got to bring them in by
yourself. And we were like, what? How do we do
this? They're like, I don't know. You figure
it out. Like, okay. So one, I got to get to the
patient. Two, I got to take the lanyard off my
arm because I don't want to pull the lanyard
off and then have to put it back on when I have
the patient on. So you pull it off your arm and
you put it on the handlebar. Three, you got to
shut the ski off. But before you shut it off,
you got to gas it and put it in an area upwind,
up current. Because after you go get the guy,
the ski's got to be around you somewhere. Because
if not, it's going to be in the current and it's
going to be gone. And you're not going to swim
to the ski with holding on to a guy. that's the
kind of class that we had that prepared us to
be, you know, to think worst case, to think,
I forgot what we were talking about, but they
wouldn't do that. They wouldn't do that now.
And there's, it's like the training is like totally
different. And it's, it's, yeah, we're talking
about training, but the training is not the same
as what we use. They're not preparing the men
to be their best, their best. You know, and Brian
was a huge advocate of that. Every time he had
a class, he would say, you know, I want you guys
to come out of this class being as good as me
or being better than me. If you guys get somewhere
close to that or past me, dude, I'll be so stoked.
Super stoked. and the training like like i said
the training nowadays it's just not it's not
the same i mean but you have to stay on it like
you said stay on the training keep up with the
equipment in my trailer like all that all that
stuff i hope that makes sense i don't know no
it does like i said there's so many parallels
to the lifeguarding elements of your stories
to the stunt elements of your stories and i think
that's it we need a good ownership of the basic
skills first but you know one example one of
my stations in two departments ago had a boat
and they had no standards on anyone that staffed
that station being able to swim, being able to
understand sea spine immobilization in the water,
understanding how to back a trailer, you know
what I mean? So you could be assigned there with
the bare minimum and then have to save someone
from a lake and have no idea how to get that
vehicle in, how not to run them over and chop
them up with a propeller, how to get them out.
I mean, none of that. So by taking an ownership
of the basics first and then start pushing your
skill level out and each time what if this what
if that what if this fails what if this rig can't
get to us what if the helicopter can't fly and
then you start building this skill set out from
there that to me i think is how you know through
an entire career in one of our professions that
you pursue mastery and that's what the old bull
should be like that's the one you go to and i
had an example with one of my fire captains that
did exactly that thought outside the box and
ended up putting us in position where we we rescued
a fire engine basically it was getting burnt
up but it was because of his ability to think
way outside the box and that's what i always
chase too is you're always you're always trying
to add to that skill set keep the basics sharp
but then add to that skill set right Yeah. Well,
I think that's a good place to transition to
some closing questions so I can let you get on
with your day and let you check out your stuff
in your man cave. Thanks. So the first one I
love to ask, is there a book that you like to
recommend to people? It can be related to what
we've discussed today or completely unrelated.
No, I hate to say it. I'm not a book reader at
all. No worry. What about a film, then, if you
don't read books? I mean, my favorite films are...
One is Gladiator. It's one of my favorites. I
don't know what it is. I've worked with the second
-year director and stunt coordinator on that
movie. He was on Battleship, and... He's a...
But his attention to detail. But anyway, it's
just one of my favorite movies. Black Hawk Down
was another one. Same stunt coordinator, same
guy. It's funny. But I guess I'm not a huge book
reader. I don't watch TV much nowadays. I don't
have cable in my house. I have a TV, but my kids
watch Netflix or something. Try to stay outdoors
a little bit more. But I have the best advice
I had. It was from a stuntman, but it has nothing
to do with life in itself. And don't get me wrong.
Like, lifeguarding was way more fulfilling than
stunt rigging. And that's what I miss the most
about lifeguarding is just saving someone's life.
I mean, it's kind of the same like we talked
about, but it's not really the same, you know?
And the highs and the lows of lifeguarding, you
know, like you have people that die on you and
it's part of life and it's part of learning.
But from my movie side of the career, the biggest
advice I've ever gotten was, and I've talked
about Brian a lot, talked about Brian because
he's, you know, he's... a mentor and he's put
me on on this path and then I've gone on different
paths and it's a long time stuntman long time
ago his name's Buddy Joe Hooker he's one of the
legends of the business he was you know at one
time the greatest stuntman alive and was winning
stuntman competitions and all this stuff and
he was doing a show here and he it got cancelled
and he said oh meet us at meet me at At Ruth
Chris, we're going to have, I'm going, I'm leaving,
it's canceled. Okay, yeah, three of us went.
And the advice he gave to all three of us was
to never wait for anyone in this business. Never
wait. He said, Craig, you're always with Brian,
and you always work with Brian, and that's great.
He said, that's super great. There's nothing
wrong with that. If you want to be successful
in this business, you have to branch off and
go on your own path. Because if Brian is not
working, that means you're not working. Now,
if you have other people that you are friends
with and is in your tree of different people
to work for, then you can go to this limb and
you can, ask this guy if he's working or not
and if he's not working you go to the next guy
and ask this guy if he's not working and if you
go to the next guy and you can go to all these
different options and that was the biggest thing
that the biggest the best advice I got is not
to limit yourself to only certain people you
know and that's the reason why I got all these
opportunities. And also the reason why I stopped
doing the water kind of stopped doing water stuff
is because, you know, it, it gave me more opportunities
to work in the business. One as a assistant stunt
coordinator on Battleship, then it started being
rigging. And then now I'm rigging for, I'm rigging
for one, two, three, four, I could be rigging
for five different people now, you know, six,
maybe. I mean, it's just a lot of. limbs and
trees and fingers that i can i can touch to and
i i try to do that as much as i can you know
i won't work for i mean i won't there's people
you won't work for and of course i'm going to
work for brian if he calls me you know i mean
if i'm home or if i'm not i mean if i'm available
in the home but if he's not working you're not
working So that was the biggest advice I ever
got was to just branch out and do your own thing.
It's kind of a selfish thing, but it's not. Yeah,
no, I think it's great advice. And to expand
on that, something that I realized was also don't
wait for an environment, an organization, a company,
whatever it is, for them to give you an opportunity.
Make that opportunity yourself. And a perfect
example is With this platform now, I get to have
a conversation with you and I get to put it out
immediately to the people. Well, 40 years ago,
30 years ago, we would have to try and see if
a news agency would set up a conversation, an
interview, whatever, and you might get, what,
a five -minute spot. Well, now we can have an
hour and a half conversation because we've created
our own platform. So that's something that I
learned, too, is if you're waiting for... you
know, a politician to enact law, to try and make
a change in the world, or then you waste, you're
not wasting your time, but why not just, just,
you know, find the actual direct line from A
to B and create whatever road that is and enforce
that, you know, get, gets directly to the people,
not, don't wait for a third party to approve
or allow you to do whatever it is you're trying
to do in the world. Right. You know, my, my,
my biggest thing was, and I got to thank my wife.
Because my wife, she is the one person that,
and I was scared. I was scared to like, you know,
leave, quit lifeguarding. You know, it was, it
was a scary, it was a scary time. And I had a
more, you know, I got a mortgage, I got school
tuition. Like she was the one that, and she's
this, that type of person. She's the type of
person that would. that will try something. And
if it doesn't work, she'll try something else.
And at the time, I was scared. And she was like,
babe, you got to do it. You got to do it. You
just got to do it. And she convinced me to leave.
It was time to leave. You know, it's time to
start. thinking about rigging and all these other
things. If not, I probably would still be lifeguarding.
If she wasn't in my life, I'd probably be still
lifeguarding. And yeah, I got to thank her 150
% for pushing me, for encouraging me to... try
something different try something new not knowing
you know it's the world of not knowing it's like
oh my gosh i don't know if i'm gonna make it
but she was the one that trusted and believed
in me and and i love her and i got thankful for
that well i can relate my wife stood you know
stood behind me when i was leaving all the security
of the fire service the the pension the benefits
and you know went out on my own and she she said
all right let's do it and then now it's kind
of flipped where she's on her way to medical
school and this has taken to the point where
i'm able to kind of stand behind her now so that's
i think that's a beautiful insight into a great
marriage right and she's she's been successful
pretty much all her her life like i mean her
work life anyway i mean she's been she's had
a huge manufacturing company and she does the
same now like but when she came when she moved
back to Hawaii and we started uh our journey
she wasn't really doing anything and and now
it's just it's a flourishing business that she
owns with one other person and they've never
borrowed a dime from anybody and they've turned
it into a really successful business so in a
sense and I I don't express that enough to her,
but she was like, she's always been somebody
that I've always looked up to too, because she's
been so successful, you know? And so it, it gave
me confidence to like, be like, Oh, okay. Oh
yeah. She sees it's going to work. She believes
in me. All right, let's take the leap of faith
that I'm going to do it, you know? And then that's
where I am at today. You know, I love everything
that I have. I'm blessed. Got a beautiful house,
beautiful kids, you know, beautiful view outside
my house of the ocean, like a mountain behind
me. Like I come home sunset every day. You know,
I work, I get to work, I get to go places and
see things and they get to come and hang out
and see places. And it's just everything's going
good right now. Everything's going great. Thank
you for having me on this. I hope it, I hope
it, uh, I hope it was interesting. Um, and I
hope people are going to help people get some
kind of inspiration a little bit, I guess. No,
well, it's, I mean, everyone's story is so unique.
And, um, you know, one of the other closing questions
I have, I always ask people. And I'd actually
point this. I asked if there's someone they would
recommend to come on as a guest. And I think
Jason talked about Brian as well. I would love
to get Brian on one day if you think you would
be able to help that happen. Oh, sure. I mean,
Brian is, you know, he's not only known in Hawaii.
That guy's known around the world as the water
safety guru. That's the guy. He's created, it's
called Bragg. big wave assessment group. You
can follow it on Instagram and he's created that.
And they go around the world and they teach,
you know, lifeguards, professional big wave surfers.
Like they teach everything, everything and everything.
Risk assessment on your area, the areas to go
and not to go. They do underwater, they do breath
holding, they do CPR. I mean, it's like a, it's
a huge thing. And he would. I think he would
be very good for your show, for your podcast.
Interesting to listen to. Because he always has
some kind of acronym or some kind of thing to
say. The mannerisms of Brian that only certain
of us people know. But he paved the way. Paved
the way for a lot of us. I'm one of them. Like
I said, I'm probably the... biggest benefactor
of that especially now in the movies and especially
my lifeguarding career and the path it took you
know absolutely well thank you so much we'll
work on making that connection then so Craig
I just want to say thank you so much what I love
about this podcast and I get this feedback a
lot as well is the diversity of the guests and
that's very deliberate you know we we tend to
be very siloed in the fire service for example
and we get a lot of great people within our profession
but we hear them a lot and there are so many
other people from so many other professions that
have so much not only you know parallel skills
and stories but just so much value and cross
-pollination to you know each other whether it's
learning from the fire service into the the lifeguarding
community or from the military into the law enforcement.
So I just want to say thank you so much for taking
the time. It's been fascinating hearing your
specific journey between the actual boogie boarding
to lifeguarding to stunts and rigging. So thank
you so much for being so generous with your time
today. Thank you. My pleasure. Keep in touch,
brother.