WEBVTT

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As

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always, my name's James Geering, and this week

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it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show

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veteran flight paramedic and co -founder of the

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Incomologists, John East. Now, in this conversation,

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we discuss a host of topics, from his journey

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into EMS, emergency medicine in the rural setting,

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his transition into flight medicine, mastering

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the basics, medical innovation. the importance

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of life insurance, entrepreneurship, his own

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experience with the 24 -72 work week, healthy

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transition, and so much more. Now, before we

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get to this incredible conversation, as I say

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every week, please just take a moment. Go to

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whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe

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to the show, leave feedback, and leave a rating.

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Every single five -star rating truly does elevate

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this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find. And this is a free library of

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over 1 ,200 episodes now. So all I ask in return

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is that you help share these incredible men and

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women's stories so I can get them to every single

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person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you,

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John... East. Enjoy. Well, John, I want to start

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by saying thank you for taking the time and driving

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over to the studio, aka my house. So for people

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listening, where, if you were at your home, where

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would we find you right now? I'm so glad I got

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to hear that. I was worried doing this podcast

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with you in your home. I wasn't going to get

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the question, where on planet earth are we finding

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you today? So if I wasn't here, I'd be home with

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my wife, Leanne, and our two dogs, Darlene and

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Trixie in Inverness, Florida. Beautiful. Well,

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I want to start at the very beginning of your

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timeline. So tell me where you were born and

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tell me a little bit about your family dynamic,

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what your parents did, how many siblings. Sure.

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So I grew up on the mean streets of Homestead,

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Florida, a small town just south of Miami. It's

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actually not such a small town anymore. But I

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grew up in the Florida Everglades in the wilderness

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off the beaten path. Childhood was was fantastic.

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It was an adventure. It was all outdoors and

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for a reason. But looking back, you know, before

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coming on to your visiting with you today and

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having this talk, you know, I tried to kind of

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compartmentalize like seasons of life and like

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really. analyze them. And, um, you know, it was

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interesting exploring childhood because it was

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very much a dichotomy of, of awesome and, uh,

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and awful, like all wrapped up into one. And,

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you know, happy to explore that, uh, if you like

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or not, but, um, mom was a nurse, career nurse,

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uh, 40 plus years, um, doing bedside nursing,

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hardest working person I've ever known. Uh, dad

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was an on again, off again, uh, firefighter and,

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um, and also boat mechanic, uh, growing up. When

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I hear Homestead, I think of Johnny Mac, who

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was one of the top guys in CrossFit, certainly

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used to be. And he had an interesting story because

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he was a lineman early on and responded to, I

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think he lived in Homestead as well, if I got

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that right, when Hurricane Andrew came through.

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Do you remember that? And talk to me about that

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experience, because that pretty much devastated

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the entire city of Homestead, if my memory serves

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me right. Sure. So, yeah, if Johnny Mac's from

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Homestead, he would be the second best athlete

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to ever come out of Homestead behind only me,

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which is nothing for him. I did steal clean today

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on social media. So there we go. Yeah, that was

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a nice clean first one since shoulder surgery.

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I'm pretty, pretty proud of it. But yes, I was

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in Homestead for Hurricane Andrew. It was. You

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know, it's interesting. As an adult now that

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owns a home and has responsibilities, I understand

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just how awful that was for my parents, how stressful

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that was for so many families down there. I was

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five or six. I was five when Hurricane Andrew

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came through. The night of was terrifying. You

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know, our home came apart with us in it. We had

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to move from room to room as the roof kind of

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got torn off in stages. But we survived, had

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a few of the neighbors whose houses were completely

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destroyed, migrated to our house through the

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night. So that was terrible. It was terrifying.

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Still remember it vividly. Even as a five -year

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-old, there's like images and sounds that you

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kind of hang on to. But after the fact, as an

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adventurous five -year -old, it was pretty incredible.

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We lived in a camper trailer in our driveway

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for like a year. The army was coming around every

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day. There was Humvees and Chinook helicopters

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and soldiers giving out Oreos and bowls of soup

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and sandwiches. So, you know, as a kid, it was

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a lot of fun. But as awful as that sounds, but

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as an adult now looking back and kind of unpacking

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all of it, I mean, it was devastation. That town,

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you know, I moved out of Homestead when I was

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18. Hurricane Andrew came in when I was five.

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And when I moved away from home, that place still

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had not recovered fully from it. Mr. Rogers talked

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about, you know, find the helpers in a situation.

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What do you remember as a small kid? And then

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what was some of the stories that you heard years

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after that being a homestead resident? Sure.

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Yeah, that's a great question. And that's a great

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quote. I love that quote. And I do think of it

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often. But yeah, it really did. I mean. So this

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may be an interesting intertwining of topics

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here, but my dad growing up was a really gruff

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dude, not really like overly friendly guy. He

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was kind of a mean guy. But I mean, that night

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there was like no question, right? We heard neighbors

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shouting for help. You know, he went through

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the door open and, you know, called them over.

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You know, they came to the home. And from that

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point forward, it pretty much, I guess we had

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a. a much more collaborative relationship with

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all of our neighbors and everybody truly did

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pitch in to help each other out. Um, you know,

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I've seen that in, uh, in much less acute, um,

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you know, uh, things that have happened through

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the years, even as an adult. And, uh, it's all,

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it really is. Um, you know, I, I don't know what

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the word for it is, but you know, I don't know

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if it's validating or affirming, uh, when you

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see people that would otherwise just. Not let

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each other in in traffic, but something bad happens.

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You see the good come out of people. I think

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this is the message that we should be hearing.

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And I hope that the through line of this whole

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podcast has been community and kindness and compassion

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and service. And there was that, you know. thrown

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around, make America great again. So, yeah, you

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can. Absolutely. And it's already there. It's

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just nurturing that. And we see it. Everyone

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says, I missed 9 -12, for example. You know,

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you look at... I'd say Katrina wasn't the best

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of examples because there was good and bad highlighted.

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But so many of these natural disasters, when

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you hear stories from boots on the ground, that's

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what you hear. Neighbors being neighborly and

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the religion and the skin color and the people

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that they sleep with is irrelevant. They're just

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Americans. And I feel like we've had that kind

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of hijacked from us. Yeah, I agree. This kind

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of calls me back to a recent podcast you did

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with Rob Jones when you two discussed. you know,

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being a citizen versus a civilian. Um, you know,

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that one, that one spoke to me and I rewound

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that and listened to it a few times. Um, but

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that's ultimately what you guys are speaking

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to there, right? You know, find a way to contribute

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and be, be a citizen in your community. Um, this

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is also another thing is, but this is number

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115 of about 3000 things I've, I've learned from

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my wife, Leanne. Uh, but she showed me how to

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truly be a supportive. contributing friend, family

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member, and just, I guess, community member.

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Um, and the first time I really saw this was

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when we had somebody close to us lose a family

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member. And, you know, for the longest time I

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had always, you know, reached out like, Hey,

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I'm so sorry to hear that. If you need anything,

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let me know. Right. Happy to help. She was the

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first one I ever saw when we, um, we had someone

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close to us lose a family member. She, uh, she

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shot me a text to let me know and said, I'm going

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to start making a meal. Can you take it over?

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Like didn't ask, didn't ask what they needed.

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She's like, take it over there and then find

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a way to help while you're there, you know, find

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something to do. There's something you can do

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to help. So, uh, yeah, yeah. And I do think that's

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in, in keeping with the spirit of your show for

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sure. Having listened to a bunch of your episodes.

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yeah rob was amazing that's the second time he's

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been on the show we climbed the one world trade

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together say we climbed i wasn't allowed to use

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my fire gear so i kind of got to be in just gym

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shorts and two working legs and he bear crawled

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a hundred plus floors all the way up to the top

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so you talk about humility that's uh it's a humbling

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experience you mentioned before the comment some

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of your charter was awesome some was awful if

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you want to expand on that Sure. When I graduated

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high school, I couldn't get out of Homestead

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fast enough for a number of reasons. One, in

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high school, when I started nearing the end of

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my time in high school, I really started looking

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around. For as long as I can remember, my track

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in life was I was going to graduate high school

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and be a fishing guide. It was going to be great.

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I was going to do what I love, love fishing,

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get paid to do it. And, you know, at a point,

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I don't think with any, like, concerted thought

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or effort, just kind of organically looked around,

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looked at the landscape around me. And, you know,

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the aspirational place to land for someone in

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Homestead back then was a job with the county,

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you know, doing whatever, animal control, whatever

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it was. A job with the county has benefits. Or,

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you know, working at the cement plant. And I

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realized I was like, that's that's not for me.

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I want something more. I don't know what it is,

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but for that reason alone, I'm out. But also

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growing up, you know, like I said, if you asked

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me to, you know, paint my childhood with a broad

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stroke, you know, and wrap it up in one thought,

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it was awesome and it was outside. But that's

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now, you know, for the longest time, my association

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with back home was very dark. Just kind of a

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gray haze. You know, everything outside the house

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was fantastic. But growing up inside the home,

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there's always a lot of tension. You know, my

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dad was a habitual drinker. You know, he was

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not overly kind most of the time. He was definitely

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not kind to my mother or my sister. And just

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the overall dynamic was very, very negative.

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And, you know, I couldn't escape that fast enough.

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It really, again, in exploring my own thoughts

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and exploring my life before coming in here to

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sit down with you, I realized most of my 20s,

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late teens and 20s, was me just searching for

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what it means to be a good man. You know, and

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you always start first. It's like, let me find

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one and then I'll just emulate them, you know,

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fake it till you make it. And then I got hired

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really young to work rescue. And I looked around

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and I was like, man, there's some really good

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and some really bad examples all wrapped up in

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one here. But, you know, I spent most of my 20s,

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you know, looking for that, you know, and I was

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very, very fortunate to find that in a number

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of people. And even I found that. in a person

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that I didn't really realize what I had in an

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example of just being a good human, uh, before

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I even left home. And, uh, I don't know if I'm

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going off trackiness, carry on point. But in

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high school, there was a, um, one of the school

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bus drivers at my high school guy named Al Campbell.

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Uh, he looked, he looked like every painting

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of Jesus you've ever seen. Right. So like long

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unkempt, like dirty blonde hair. a big gray beard,

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and he wore flip -flops. He was the hippy -dippy

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school bus driver. And he was my best friend's

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school bus driver. And one day, my best friend,

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Pat, growing up, he told me, he's like, hey,

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you got to come check this guy out, man. He's

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wild. So he also happened to be the youth pastor

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at the local Presbyterian church in Homestead.

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So I was like, okay, let's go. Went and met this

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guy, and he was wild. He lived an entire life.

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Before he, you know, found his his footing in

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religion and started walking that path. So he

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wasn't, you know, as a, you know, kind of wild,

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adventurous kid that wasn't looking for, you

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know, wasn't looking to be proselytized for sure.

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He was someone I could relate to. And now looking

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back, I can see he he saw where we were and knew

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knew how to get in touch with us and meet us

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where we were. And, and keep us out of trouble

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and kind of give us some motivation and a nudge

00:13:44.190 --> 00:13:46.389
in the right direction. But he's the one that

00:13:46.389 --> 00:13:48.490
got, he's the guy that got me into surfing, which

00:13:48.490 --> 00:13:51.169
ended up being a huge part of my life. Uh, not

00:13:51.169 --> 00:13:53.669
so much anymore, just cause of proximity to,

00:13:53.730 --> 00:13:57.490
uh, to a servable beach. But, um, he had a great

00:13:57.490 --> 00:13:59.330
example there. I just wish I'd have exploited

00:13:59.330 --> 00:14:03.070
it for, for more, you know, when I had it, but,

00:14:03.149 --> 00:14:04.909
uh, you know, I had, I had a few other, like

00:14:04.909 --> 00:14:08.950
just awesome men that I was able to latch onto.

00:14:09.500 --> 00:14:11.960
you know, at like formative points in my, you

00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:15.259
know, early adulthood that, uh, and I learned

00:14:15.259 --> 00:14:17.080
a lot from, and I'd still carry that stuff forward.

00:14:17.620 --> 00:14:19.759
Did you ask Al what he did in the past? Cause

00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:22.080
if he said carpentry, maybe it was actually Jesus,

00:14:22.139 --> 00:14:26.159
even more crazy. I believe it. No, he, um, I

00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:29.279
do know he spent, he spent some portion of his

00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:33.019
life just basically living on the beach, I believe.

00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:36.779
But, um, Yeah. Awesome guy. I haven't spoken

00:14:36.779 --> 00:14:39.240
with him in years. Um, I'd love to reconnect

00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:42.740
with him, but, uh, but yeah, you know, I, you

00:14:42.740 --> 00:14:44.320
know, most of my twenties I spent was, it was

00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:46.120
looking for that, you know, and then I started

00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:48.419
kind of sort of figuring it out, you know, it

00:14:48.419 --> 00:14:50.120
was like, had this track and I was working rescue.

00:14:50.259 --> 00:14:51.820
It's like, okay, I'm going to do my 30 years

00:14:51.820 --> 00:14:53.980
and I'll retire. You know, it's, it's, I got

00:14:53.980 --> 00:14:56.740
a real job, you know, making some money. Um,

00:14:56.980 --> 00:14:59.240
you know, I was in a prior relationship at the

00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:00.600
time. I was like, all right, we got this thing

00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:02.580
figured out, you know, we're going to work this

00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:05.409
job and save up enough by house. you know, white

00:15:05.409 --> 00:15:08.210
picket fence, barbecues in the backyard, you

00:15:08.210 --> 00:15:11.909
know, the whole nine. And yeah, you know, that

00:15:11.909 --> 00:15:15.549
ended, that relationship ended badly. And I did

00:15:15.549 --> 00:15:17.190
end up in a dark place. And one of the things

00:15:17.190 --> 00:15:19.250
I was hoping to talk about today was just mental

00:15:19.250 --> 00:15:22.230
health in general. You know, I have my own story,

00:15:22.330 --> 00:15:25.809
but we've also seen tragically, you know, far

00:15:25.809 --> 00:15:28.309
too many colleagues and friends and people close

00:15:28.309 --> 00:15:31.470
to us, you know, lose their struggle with mental

00:15:31.470 --> 00:15:34.840
health. you know, at their own at their own hand,

00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:37.720
which is which is tragic because I've I've been

00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:40.259
there and, you know, I kind of went back and

00:15:40.259 --> 00:15:42.080
forth on whether or not I wanted to touch on

00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:46.919
this. But, you know, if I know who at least some

00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:49.779
portion of your audience is and, you know, if

00:15:49.779 --> 00:15:53.080
this can be of value to any of them, you know,

00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:55.960
I am happy to to explore it. But, you know, I've

00:15:55.960 --> 00:15:57.659
been there, you know, I've been to the end of

00:15:57.659 --> 00:16:02.169
my rope. And I've been at the highest you can

00:16:02.169 --> 00:16:05.149
be and everywhere in between. So I'll kind of

00:16:05.149 --> 00:16:07.210
just float that one out there to you. Happy to

00:16:07.210 --> 00:16:08.909
go wherever you'd like with that if you'd like

00:16:08.909 --> 00:16:11.029
to go anywhere with it. Yeah, no, I would love

00:16:11.029 --> 00:16:13.889
to. But let's roll the clock back first. You

00:16:13.889 --> 00:16:16.169
mentioned about obviously some of the negativity

00:16:16.169 --> 00:16:18.129
in your life seemingly coming from your father.

00:16:18.370 --> 00:16:21.169
Did you know his parents? Was there that generational

00:16:21.169 --> 00:16:25.370
indication there? Sure. So I knew my grandmother.

00:16:26.169 --> 00:16:28.809
Well, I knew my father's mother well. My grandfather

00:16:28.809 --> 00:16:32.330
died just before I was born, so I never got to

00:16:32.330 --> 00:16:36.450
know him. But I heard of him, and he was a short

00:16:36.450 --> 00:16:40.129
-tempered man as well, by all accounts. Very

00:16:40.129 --> 00:16:42.669
successful man with a cool story. He was a photographer,

00:16:42.990 --> 00:16:46.490
apparently pretty renowned. Did some really cool

00:16:46.490 --> 00:16:48.870
stuff there. But yeah, speaking to your question,

00:16:49.129 --> 00:16:53.529
he sounded mean, and I think my dad really took

00:16:53.529 --> 00:16:56.509
after him. Well, you mentioned about finding

00:16:56.509 --> 00:16:58.509
yourself in the world of rescue. Was that fire

00:16:58.509 --> 00:17:00.389
rescue? Was that a different kind of rescue?

00:17:00.909 --> 00:17:04.910
Yeah. So I and my entrance into rescue is fire

00:17:04.910 --> 00:17:08.849
rescue. This whole world was really interesting

00:17:08.849 --> 00:17:13.809
and random, too. So first, I'll I'll answer your

00:17:13.809 --> 00:17:17.470
question. So, yeah, I my first job and he and.

00:17:18.089 --> 00:17:21.049
Fire Rescue was working for the smallest county

00:17:21.049 --> 00:17:24.390
in the state of Florida, Union County. It was

00:17:24.390 --> 00:17:27.690
a fully volunteer fire service with paid EMS.

00:17:27.970 --> 00:17:31.230
So I got hired as a single cert paramedic in

00:17:31.230 --> 00:17:35.230
a county that had two rescues. Talk to me about

00:17:35.230 --> 00:17:39.049
your EMT paramedic school experience. Oh, that

00:17:39.049 --> 00:17:43.430
was fantastic. So when I left home, I wanted

00:17:43.430 --> 00:17:47.170
anything but to be a firefighter. And the reason

00:17:47.170 --> 00:17:49.809
for that was I got pushed so hard. A lot of family

00:17:49.809 --> 00:17:53.829
worked in the fire service. My dad, again, on

00:17:53.829 --> 00:17:55.930
again, off again, but he worked in the fire service.

00:17:56.069 --> 00:17:59.009
And they all said the same thing, like, 24, 48,

00:17:59.450 --> 00:18:01.450
you're going to love your job. You'll never work

00:18:01.450 --> 00:18:03.089
a day in your life, this, that, and the other.

00:18:03.529 --> 00:18:06.049
And I was a kid that knew better. I was like,

00:18:06.130 --> 00:18:08.730
you guys are idiots. I'm going to go get rich

00:18:08.730 --> 00:18:11.970
doing something, and I'm leaving. So I left,

00:18:12.029 --> 00:18:15.890
you know, went off and started college. I started

00:18:15.890 --> 00:18:18.109
a history major because that was my favorite

00:18:18.109 --> 00:18:20.150
subject. And I ended up landing on political

00:18:20.150 --> 00:18:22.509
science because I didn't really know what I wanted

00:18:22.509 --> 00:18:24.890
to do. But I did decide, I was like, well, I'm

00:18:24.890 --> 00:18:27.630
pretty good at arguing. Like, let's go that route.

00:18:27.670 --> 00:18:30.750
I'll be a lawyer, right? And along the way in

00:18:30.750 --> 00:18:33.029
Gainesville, Florida, I met some pretty incredible

00:18:33.029 --> 00:18:36.230
people that happened to work for the fire service.

00:18:36.789 --> 00:18:38.589
And, you know, they're guys, you know, a handful

00:18:38.589 --> 00:18:40.759
of years older than me. They were cool. You know,

00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:43.980
they're buff, big jacked up trucks. And, you

00:18:43.980 --> 00:18:45.759
know, they told me they work for the fire department

00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:48.339
and they love it. And all the ladies want them

00:18:48.339 --> 00:18:50.079
and, you know, all the all the great things,

00:18:50.119 --> 00:18:53.859
you know, very, very, very much presented themselves

00:18:53.859 --> 00:18:56.380
as the rock stars that they were in their own

00:18:56.380 --> 00:18:59.180
world. But I was like, hey, I'm in. There's actually

00:18:59.180 --> 00:19:01.500
a lot shorter track to get to that, too. So it

00:19:01.500 --> 00:19:04.079
kind of brought me around to it. So I went to

00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:09.130
EMT school because of. the timeline to when the

00:19:09.130 --> 00:19:11.730
next fire college cohort was going to start.

00:19:12.230 --> 00:19:15.990
So I went first responder school, then EMT school.

00:19:16.349 --> 00:19:20.549
And in EMT school, I really did develop an affinity

00:19:20.549 --> 00:19:23.230
for the EMS side of things. So I was like, I'm

00:19:23.230 --> 00:19:24.589
going to just go straight to paramedic school.

00:19:25.710 --> 00:19:28.849
Always with plans to come back and do fire college

00:19:28.849 --> 00:19:32.730
and be a firefighter. But after paramedic school,

00:19:32.970 --> 00:19:37.400
I needed a job. bad. It was competitive back

00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:40.099
then. So I applied any and everywhere within

00:19:40.099 --> 00:19:43.200
any kind of feasible driving distance. And I

00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:46.059
got a call, got a call from James Goody Goodwin

00:19:46.059 --> 00:19:48.519
in Union County, Florida. And so we want to offer

00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:50.519
you a job or we want to bring you in for an interview.

00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:55.559
So I went and interviewed, got hired and it,

00:19:55.720 --> 00:20:00.079
you know, I, I wish there was a path where I

00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:02.019
could have worked there for an entire career.

00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:06.180
You know, my life took a different course and

00:20:06.180 --> 00:20:09.019
I didn't end up staying, but man, especially

00:20:09.019 --> 00:20:12.599
now where I am in the EMS world, uh, flying the

00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:14.880
experience I got there, the folks I got to learn

00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:17.279
from there, you know, I got hired into a group

00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:19.480
of guys that had all been there for forever,

00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:23.940
right? It was tight, small circle, and you had

00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:26.119
to earn your way in, right? It was very much

00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:31.359
sink or swim questionably. I mean, the, the,

00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:34.480
you know, ethically questionable, you know how

00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:37.000
they did it, but it wasn't out of hate, right?

00:20:37.059 --> 00:20:39.180
It wasn't out of hate or hazing or anything like

00:20:39.180 --> 00:20:42.000
that. It was just like, Hey, we're a tight circle.

00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:45.279
We know it. You've got to earn your way in like

00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:48.359
sink or swim. Let's go. What are some of the

00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:51.759
stories of that? razor edge being navigated,

00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:54.519
seeing as we're sitting here after a big national

00:20:54.519 --> 00:20:58.099
news story broke out of the arrests after a hazing

00:20:58.099 --> 00:21:00.759
incident here in Marion County. Sure. So it wasn't

00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:03.059
so much hazing. There was a little bit of that,

00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:06.380
right? It was more, you know, hey, new guy, go

00:21:06.380 --> 00:21:09.039
do this. Hey, new guy, go do that. Like, hey,

00:21:09.180 --> 00:21:12.220
guess what? You're washing all the rescues this

00:21:12.220 --> 00:21:14.839
morning and we're going to have breakfast. So

00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:17.180
there is some of that. But I think it was not

00:21:17.180 --> 00:21:22.740
unhealthy. It's a crucible. Right. And I think

00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:25.539
there was merit to it. And honestly, I'm glad

00:21:25.539 --> 00:21:30.319
to have experienced that. No, the sink or swim

00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:33.440
component came more. This is arguably worse,

00:21:33.579 --> 00:21:37.839
but more on the actual call side of things. Right.

00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:42.440
Like as a baby paramedic working in a rural EMS

00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:47.400
service, you know, 45 plus. minutes from the

00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:49.599
nearest real hospital from the nearest trauma

00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:54.359
center you you had a heavy weight on you to perform

00:21:54.359 --> 00:21:56.539
right you couldn't fake it you weren't five minutes

00:21:56.539 --> 00:21:58.779
from a hospital you couldn't just throw them

00:21:58.779 --> 00:22:01.220
in an ambulance and go you had to treat people

00:22:01.220 --> 00:22:03.359
and you had to treat people well was this uh

00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:08.440
pre or post gps technology so this was post gps

00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:12.299
technology pre union county catching up with

00:22:12.299 --> 00:22:15.279
that Oh, okay. These are, these are map book,

00:22:15.299 --> 00:22:18.039
like pulling out the map book days. Um, yeah,

00:22:18.140 --> 00:22:21.500
we used to have to ask dispatch for directions.

00:22:21.619 --> 00:22:23.640
They would give it to us and we'd give, be given

00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:26.380
landmarks, right? Like. Do you know where the

00:22:26.380 --> 00:22:28.380
tree is that so -and -so flipped their tractor

00:22:28.380 --> 00:22:30.640
three years ago? Literally. That's how England

00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:32.660
is. There's no north, south, east, west. If you

00:22:32.660 --> 00:22:35.319
drive in England, everything's all squirrely.

00:22:35.420 --> 00:22:37.579
So it's literally that. Find the big oak tree

00:22:37.579 --> 00:22:40.059
and turn left at the post office. Then you're

00:22:40.059 --> 00:22:43.279
going to see a letterbox. I don't know how they

00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:45.960
did it back then, but Hialeah, we still didn't

00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:48.400
have MDT's directions or anything. Now I have

00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:51.839
to go to Jackson on a trauma call. I'm a brand

00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:53.599
new guy. I've never even been in South Florida

00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:56.630
before and navigate that. Willie, I forget his

00:22:56.630 --> 00:22:59.849
last name now, Guerrero. No, anyway, screaming

00:22:59.849 --> 00:23:02.009
at me, screaming at me. You're going the wrong

00:23:02.009 --> 00:23:04.329
way, up this way. So yeah, for anyone that's

00:23:04.329 --> 00:23:06.730
never had to drive emergency calls without GPS

00:23:06.730 --> 00:23:10.430
technology, I have so much admiration for that

00:23:10.430 --> 00:23:13.170
generation. I got to kind of just skirt it before

00:23:13.170 --> 00:23:16.470
we got into MDTs that told you how to go. Sure.

00:23:16.549 --> 00:23:18.950
Yeah, no, we still had paper charts to the bubble

00:23:18.950 --> 00:23:22.690
sheets. We had to handwrite them. But yeah, you

00:23:22.690 --> 00:23:24.529
know, I'm glad to have experienced that as well.

00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:28.460
You know, um, it is almost like a, a badge of

00:23:28.460 --> 00:23:30.160
honor of sorts. It's like, you know, you kids

00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:32.259
don't understand. I was around before all this

00:23:32.259 --> 00:23:35.200
technology, but, um, I guess that's, that's indicative

00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:38.119
of me turning into that guy in a sign of age.

00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:42.339
But, um, no, it was very much, uh, when, you

00:23:42.339 --> 00:23:44.599
know, as a baby medic orienting, uh, with the

00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:46.619
County, I got paired with a more senior medic

00:23:46.619 --> 00:23:51.029
and, um, you, you were not. You're not going

00:23:51.029 --> 00:23:53.369
to get much help. Right. It's like, hey, this

00:23:53.369 --> 00:23:55.849
is what you're going to experience. So show us

00:23:55.849 --> 00:23:58.849
that you can hang with it or not. And the thought

00:23:58.849 --> 00:24:01.210
process was like you can go deep into the weeds

00:24:01.210 --> 00:24:03.970
on any of these clinical topics, any disease

00:24:03.970 --> 00:24:06.950
process, you know, any acute injury or condition,

00:24:07.210 --> 00:24:09.049
whatever. You can go as deep into the weeds as

00:24:09.049 --> 00:24:12.450
you want on any one of those. But there's something

00:24:12.450 --> 00:24:15.869
to like, can you treat sick people or not? And

00:24:15.869 --> 00:24:17.650
that's what they were trying to filter out. Right.

00:24:17.710 --> 00:24:19.859
That's what they're trying to weed out. And,

00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:23.500
you know, once you, I guess, showed a certain

00:24:23.500 --> 00:24:26.119
level of proficiency of resilience, ultimately,

00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:28.380
you know, then they'd really, you know, they

00:24:28.380 --> 00:24:30.259
took me under their wing, showed me the ropes,

00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:33.900
taught me so much. And, you know, I appreciate

00:24:33.900 --> 00:24:37.240
those guys for it. I do things a bit different

00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:41.180
in my training role, but I do try to keep some,

00:24:41.180 --> 00:24:46.130
you know, echoes of that baked in for sure. I've

00:24:46.130 --> 00:24:47.609
kind of seen that as well. You know, there's

00:24:47.609 --> 00:24:49.750
some crews I've experienced in the past where,

00:24:49.829 --> 00:24:52.089
yeah, the rookie has to clean everything while

00:24:52.089 --> 00:24:54.809
they all sit down. And the best crews I've been

00:24:54.809 --> 00:24:58.049
with are like, no, we're all clean together because

00:24:58.049 --> 00:25:01.190
you need to then do, you know, closed cab compartment

00:25:01.190 --> 00:25:04.210
checks and tests and go pull a hose and throw

00:25:04.210 --> 00:25:05.869
ladders. Like, we don't need you cleaning cars.

00:25:06.109 --> 00:25:08.069
We need you learning how to do the job. And I

00:25:08.069 --> 00:25:11.160
always respected that. Yes, there's a point where

00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:12.960
the rookie should be first to the dishes and

00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:15.519
up first to make the coffee and all these things.

00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:18.200
But if they're just doing all the housework,

00:25:18.259 --> 00:25:19.539
how the hell are they going to get any better

00:25:19.539 --> 00:25:22.700
at their job? Yeah. And they certainly let me

00:25:22.700 --> 00:25:25.680
jump right in on weekly evening poker too and

00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:28.380
took all my, I say all my money, what little

00:25:28.380 --> 00:25:31.680
money I did have. Were you a medic by that point?

00:25:31.900 --> 00:25:34.789
I was. Okay. So was it? Two person on the rig,

00:25:34.869 --> 00:25:37.609
EMT driver and a medic in the back? Yep, so it

00:25:37.609 --> 00:25:42.109
was EMT medic configuration. There was two rescues

00:25:42.109 --> 00:25:45.609
for the entire county. I think the population

00:25:45.609 --> 00:25:49.009
of the entire county back then was like 17 ,000

00:25:49.009 --> 00:25:54.500
or something like that. I haven't seen numbers

00:25:54.500 --> 00:25:57.299
on this, but that has to be the highest per capita

00:25:57.299 --> 00:26:02.359
sick county in the state. We were busy. And again,

00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:05.000
we're really far from any hospital. But yeah,

00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:08.700
it was an EMT medic configuration. The fire service

00:26:08.700 --> 00:26:14.720
there was 100 % volunteer. And those folks that

00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:18.779
staffed that volunteer fire service are some

00:26:18.779 --> 00:26:21.180
of the best, highest quality people I've ever

00:26:21.180 --> 00:26:23.809
met in my life. They're getting nothing from

00:26:23.809 --> 00:26:27.910
it. That that department has zero support, you

00:26:27.910 --> 00:26:29.950
know, from a monetary standpoint coming from

00:26:29.950 --> 00:26:33.130
above them. You know, I can speak to these things

00:26:33.130 --> 00:26:35.990
now because I don't work there anymore. But the

00:26:35.990 --> 00:26:38.950
county commission was not supportive of emergency

00:26:38.950 --> 00:26:41.890
services out there at all. So these folks were

00:26:41.890 --> 00:26:44.990
legitimately volunteering because it was there.

00:26:45.069 --> 00:26:47.130
Again, you know, you talk about being a civilian

00:26:47.130 --> 00:26:50.230
versus a citizen. They're citizens just out there

00:26:50.230 --> 00:26:52.839
doing right by their community. Um, and they'd

00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:54.579
respond to medical calls in the middle of the

00:26:54.579 --> 00:26:57.579
night, you know, when, when you needed, you just

00:26:57.579 --> 00:27:00.380
needed an, you needed an extra pair of hands

00:27:00.380 --> 00:27:02.960
in the back. Right. With, with just a sick person.

00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:04.740
Yeah. There's nothing fun. It wasn't a structure

00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:06.880
fire. It wasn't something sexy that they could

00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:10.360
take a selfie and put it on the internet. Um,

00:27:10.360 --> 00:27:12.539
they're just good people that were volunteers

00:27:12.539 --> 00:27:15.539
and I have so much respect for that. And I, I

00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:17.039
got to see a lot of those guys for the first

00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:19.880
time in like 15 years last weekend. Oh really?

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:21.740
You know, sadly I was at a funeral, but man,

00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:24.920
it really, um, it was a really cool touchstone

00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:28.140
to go back to, you know, go back there, see those

00:27:28.140 --> 00:27:31.380
guys catch up with them. Um, and you know, to

00:27:31.380 --> 00:27:33.259
speak to the quality of the humans, these are

00:27:33.259 --> 00:27:36.099
folks I haven't seen in 15 years. Every single

00:27:36.099 --> 00:27:38.740
one of them, I was, I was met with a hug. You

00:27:38.740 --> 00:27:42.140
know, we're just pretty incredible and nostalgic.

00:27:42.140 --> 00:27:46.039
And, you know, as sad as the thing that brought

00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:49.180
us together was, I really enjoyed catching up

00:27:49.180 --> 00:27:51.500
with them. The person that you lost, was that

00:27:51.500 --> 00:27:56.380
one of the rescue side team? So it was a former

00:27:56.380 --> 00:27:59.259
co -worker in that county's son actually passed

00:27:59.259 --> 00:28:04.920
away in a car accident. Awful. Yeah. So you talked

00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:07.180
about two rescues in an entire county. Before

00:28:07.180 --> 00:28:10.299
we move on, what were some of the idiosyncrasies

00:28:10.299 --> 00:28:13.319
of that kind of dynamic that most of us in the

00:28:13.319 --> 00:28:16.740
municipal world wouldn't even understand? Sure.

00:28:16.779 --> 00:28:19.559
So first is a lack of resource, right? Like there's

00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:23.380
going to be one medic on most calls, right? So

00:28:23.380 --> 00:28:25.359
as the medic, you know, I'll speak to that because

00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:28.000
that's what my, you know, the seat I sat in when

00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:31.609
I was there, you know. From a clinical patient

00:28:31.609 --> 00:28:34.529
care standpoint, it's all on you, right? You

00:28:34.529 --> 00:28:36.970
got plenty of helpers, usually, you know, folks

00:28:36.970 --> 00:28:38.809
that are happy to jump in and proficient with

00:28:38.809 --> 00:28:41.950
what they do. But directing a course of care,

00:28:42.109 --> 00:28:45.470
you know, decisions, do we stay, do we go? You

00:28:45.470 --> 00:28:48.130
know, that can be an incredibly difficult decision.

00:28:48.490 --> 00:28:52.259
And that's like the simplest base level. Um,

00:28:52.259 --> 00:28:55.299
so I guess, uh, speaking to idiosyncrasies, that's

00:28:55.299 --> 00:28:57.099
the biggest one it's on you and you can't fake

00:28:57.099 --> 00:28:59.539
it because you're so far from hospitals, right?

00:28:59.660 --> 00:29:03.319
Like you, you, you can't just, you know, a neb

00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:05.359
and a blanket isn't going to work. You have to

00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:07.000
treat people and you got to treat people well,

00:29:07.059 --> 00:29:09.299
or it's going to show and how it shows is bad

00:29:09.299 --> 00:29:11.579
outcomes, you know, that you're responsible for.

00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:15.039
So, you know, it's funny exploring that. Um,

00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:19.220
I hated that job for probably the first year,

00:29:19.259 --> 00:29:22.490
year and a half I did it. And the reason I hated

00:29:22.490 --> 00:29:24.650
it was because of how much pressure I put on

00:29:24.650 --> 00:29:27.829
myself to perform. I was like constantly just

00:29:27.829 --> 00:29:31.049
nickel and diamond myself with scenarios. You

00:29:31.049 --> 00:29:32.650
know, what if I see this and I don't know what

00:29:32.650 --> 00:29:34.970
to do? And what if I got to intubate somebody

00:29:34.970 --> 00:29:37.329
and I can't get the tube in and we can't ventilate

00:29:37.329 --> 00:29:39.109
them and they die and it's all my fault, you

00:29:39.109 --> 00:29:41.269
know, and this poor person's family is going

00:29:41.269 --> 00:29:44.569
to suffer because I wasn't prepared. I would

00:29:44.569 --> 00:29:47.170
lose sleep over it. I hate it. Like I loved it.

00:29:47.630 --> 00:29:50.950
But I hated it at the same time. And then, you

00:29:50.950 --> 00:29:53.250
know, at some point, you know, there's usually

00:29:53.250 --> 00:29:55.910
junctures you can point to where you have a super

00:29:55.910 --> 00:29:58.789
sick patient or some noteworthy high acuity call

00:29:58.789 --> 00:30:02.210
that goes well. And, you know, you kind of latch

00:30:02.210 --> 00:30:04.650
on to that. It's like, OK, you know, maybe maybe

00:30:04.650 --> 00:30:08.519
I do have it figured out enough to survive. And,

00:30:08.519 --> 00:30:11.619
you know, at some point way back when, you know,

00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:13.880
there you can't really point to it on a timeline,

00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:17.119
but I really did start enjoying it and thriving.

00:30:17.700 --> 00:30:20.279
And, you know, wanted at that point in my life,

00:30:20.299 --> 00:30:21.920
you know, I wanted to take that route as far

00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:25.339
as I could, which is ultimately what led me to

00:30:25.339 --> 00:30:28.240
to leave Union County and then ultimately pursue,

00:30:28.420 --> 00:30:31.859
you know, a flight career. I have the same exact

00:30:31.859 --> 00:30:35.289
thing. You know, I used to. be terrified sometimes

00:30:35.289 --> 00:30:36.950
when certain kind of calls will come in like

00:30:36.950 --> 00:30:40.190
pediatric calls that one of our at um it's orange

00:30:40.190 --> 00:30:42.230
county as well but certainly in reedy creek one

00:30:42.230 --> 00:30:44.369
of the guys that we have on the medics is also

00:30:44.369 --> 00:30:47.509
a nurse in um i forget the name of the hospital

00:30:47.509 --> 00:30:50.150
now but a pediatric hospital so you know that

00:30:50.150 --> 00:30:51.829
kind of person obviously probably wouldn't have

00:30:51.829 --> 00:30:54.049
felt as uncomfortable but you know a lot of us

00:30:54.049 --> 00:30:57.150
we don't treat you know big big emergent calls

00:30:57.150 --> 00:30:59.130
on children normally so like you said pediatric

00:30:59.130 --> 00:31:02.190
intubation and getting the drug doses right used

00:31:02.190 --> 00:31:04.829
to get my heart through my throat but that's

00:31:04.829 --> 00:31:07.390
because you care that's because you actually

00:31:07.390 --> 00:31:09.789
you know hopefully are a good emt or a good medic

00:31:09.789 --> 00:31:14.109
but what i've been reflecting on recently is

00:31:14.109 --> 00:31:19.049
we do a very bad job in the emt and medic school

00:31:19.049 --> 00:31:22.359
world of setting us up for failure when it comes

00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:24.220
to our expectations because if you take the mega

00:31:24.220 --> 00:31:26.200
code for example you know they go into the first

00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:27.880
rhythm you treat it you defibrillate whatever

00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:30.339
it is okay now they're brady okay now you give

00:31:30.339 --> 00:31:32.880
atropine etc etc okay congratulations normal

00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:35.440
sinus you got a pulse and so they always live

00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:39.480
if you don't fuck it up but that's not the real

00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:42.089
world you know what four percent You know, I

00:31:42.089 --> 00:31:43.390
think it's something like that, depending on

00:31:43.390 --> 00:31:45.250
where you work. And I've been the grim reaper

00:31:45.250 --> 00:31:46.970
my whole fucking life. Like I haven't saved a

00:31:46.970 --> 00:31:49.730
single person that's been in full arrest ever

00:31:49.730 --> 00:31:54.130
in 14 years, including on a plane as a bystander

00:31:54.130 --> 00:31:56.349
a couple of years ago. That one didn't make it

00:31:56.349 --> 00:31:59.950
either. So I've got hands of death. But that's

00:31:59.950 --> 00:32:02.309
just, you know, the luck of the draw. In this

00:32:02.309 --> 00:32:04.230
case, the bad luck of the draw. It's not that

00:32:04.230 --> 00:32:06.150
I was a bad medic. It's not that I did all these

00:32:06.150 --> 00:32:08.789
things wrong. It's just that they were GI bleeds

00:32:08.789 --> 00:32:10.730
and they were triple A's and they were, you know.

00:32:11.439 --> 00:32:13.420
that just weren't going to come back to life

00:32:13.420 --> 00:32:17.599
again. So I've put this to a few people. I think

00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:20.880
in our training and in megacodes and in final

00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:23.880
exams, et cetera, we should have scenarios where

00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:26.140
you do all these different rhythms, you give

00:32:26.140 --> 00:32:29.599
the drugs, you give the electric therapy or whatever

00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:32.799
is needed, and they die and they say, that was

00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:35.140
amazing, good job. And you're like, what? You

00:32:35.140 --> 00:32:37.240
did everything right. They still die because

00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:38.859
that's what happens in the real world sometimes,

00:32:39.099 --> 00:32:41.880
or more often than not. So don't look at that

00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:44.660
as a failure. And I think that would then bake

00:32:44.660 --> 00:32:47.700
in when we go out into the real world that every

00:32:47.700 --> 00:32:49.660
time that you're doing a full arrest, of course,

00:32:49.660 --> 00:32:52.940
you're trying to save that person. But there's

00:32:52.940 --> 00:32:54.519
a likelihood that they're not going to survive,

00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:56.400
you know, especially if you have the kind of

00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:58.960
career that I have, you know, whereas I see all

00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:00.960
these people, you know, the code saves and they

00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:02.799
come to the station the next week with a cake.

00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:06.599
None. but that's all right. Because again, you

00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:08.900
take your job seriously, you do it right. You

00:33:08.900 --> 00:33:11.660
gave that person every chance. But I think it's

00:33:11.660 --> 00:33:14.619
a, an interesting, you know, question for the

00:33:14.619 --> 00:33:16.980
EMS world is like, why not bake in scenarios

00:33:16.980 --> 00:33:20.160
where you congratulate a student on, you know,

00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:21.960
successfully performing everything that they

00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:24.319
should have, but the outcome still being death,

00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:25.680
because that's what's going to happen when they

00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:28.279
get out there. Yeah. So, you know, I fully agree

00:33:28.279 --> 00:33:31.000
with that. And I'd also say that, you know, there's

00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:34.769
much as much of an onus on, you know the senior

00:33:34.769 --> 00:33:38.150
guys out there uh to to do the same right and

00:33:38.150 --> 00:33:41.549
on the job training you know Keep an eye on your

00:33:41.549 --> 00:33:46.170
junior guys that are going to wear every bad

00:33:46.170 --> 00:33:47.930
outcome. They're going to wear that heavy. It's

00:33:47.930 --> 00:33:50.309
going to weigh on them. They may not show it.

00:33:50.609 --> 00:33:52.849
They're likely not going to tell you, man, I'm

00:33:52.849 --> 00:33:55.829
really sad and I feel awful about that. If they

00:33:55.829 --> 00:33:57.549
did, great. Take it and run with it. Have that

00:33:57.549 --> 00:33:59.809
conversation. But most of them aren't going to

00:33:59.809 --> 00:34:00.970
tell you. If you're paying attention, you'll

00:34:00.970 --> 00:34:03.930
see it. So that's on us, the more senior people,

00:34:04.049 --> 00:34:06.049
to look out for that and also do our best to

00:34:06.049 --> 00:34:09.360
prepare folks. for perceived failure, at very

00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:14.300
least, if not real failure. So in the Union County

00:34:14.300 --> 00:34:16.900
career, what are some of the career calls that

00:34:16.900 --> 00:34:22.059
you remember? Sure. Yeah. So there were a few.

00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:25.159
So the most noteworthy is probably we had a,

00:34:25.179 --> 00:34:27.260
you know, it's a small community. Everybody knows

00:34:27.260 --> 00:34:30.199
everybody. And as with most small towns, you

00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:32.360
know, there's a handful of, you know, notable

00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:34.820
families, right? And, you know, distinguished

00:34:34.820 --> 00:34:39.610
people. One of those people was murdered as part

00:34:39.610 --> 00:34:43.789
of a is actually a shooting spree that a man

00:34:43.789 --> 00:34:46.789
that worked for him went on through the county.

00:34:46.869 --> 00:34:49.329
Like he started in one place, which is basically

00:34:49.329 --> 00:34:51.889
on one end of the county, worked his way through

00:34:51.889 --> 00:34:54.170
the from one end of the county to the other,

00:34:54.190 --> 00:34:57.409
shooting people in sequence that, you know, with

00:34:57.409 --> 00:34:59.570
with intent. He had people he was looking for

00:34:59.570 --> 00:35:03.820
to shoot. So working rescue that day. We just

00:35:03.820 --> 00:35:08.519
started with one. I was up at a wellness check,

00:35:08.619 --> 00:35:12.679
I think, north end of the county, and a gunshot

00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:18.659
wound page went out in town, in Lake Butler.

00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:22.360
So we cleared that call and started heading to

00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:25.159
it, and we had probably a 15, 20 -minute drive

00:35:25.159 --> 00:35:27.599
just to get back to town. That's how remote and

00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:30.920
spread out this county was. And on the way, more

00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:33.920
and more pages kept going out for just like sequential

00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:36.860
gunshot victims to where it turned into like

00:35:36.860 --> 00:35:39.739
a legitimate, like you learn in EMT school, like,

00:35:39.800 --> 00:35:42.139
Hey guys, is the scene safe? Like what's going

00:35:42.139 --> 00:35:44.639
on? You know? So we got with, with the sheriff's

00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:46.800
department, um, you got with deputies and we're

00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:49.179
like, Hey, are we safe to proceed in there? Like,

00:35:49.179 --> 00:35:52.820
we don't know what's going on. Yeah. It was,

00:35:52.820 --> 00:35:54.920
it was pretty chaotic, but I think ultimately

00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:58.639
six people ended up, uh, shot, uh, including

00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:02.530
the shooter. Once he was once he had satisfied

00:36:02.530 --> 00:36:06.489
his literal list of people that he had set out

00:36:06.489 --> 00:36:09.210
to shoot, he shot himself and he was actually

00:36:09.210 --> 00:36:12.269
the first patient we responded to. Yeah, we responded

00:36:12.269 --> 00:36:15.090
to these just how the calls came in. Geographically,

00:36:15.090 --> 00:36:17.750
we responded to him in like reverse order. But

00:36:17.750 --> 00:36:22.869
yeah, so. We ended up, my team and fortunately

00:36:22.869 --> 00:36:26.769
the other rescue that was on that day, they were

00:36:26.769 --> 00:36:28.429
on their way back to county, so they were able

00:36:28.429 --> 00:36:31.969
to respond as well. But yeah, we signal sevened

00:36:31.969 --> 00:36:36.210
a few and then transported two to the hospital

00:36:36.210 --> 00:36:38.909
and ended up living. Two in the same rig or two,

00:36:38.989 --> 00:36:41.289
one in each rig? Yeah, sorry. No, one in each

00:36:41.289 --> 00:36:45.670
ambulance, but two of the entire event, two patients

00:36:45.670 --> 00:36:49.110
were transported and lived. Crazy. So talk to

00:36:49.110 --> 00:36:51.449
me about that. You've got this scene that's unfolding.

00:36:51.989 --> 00:36:55.010
PD doesn't seem to understand fully as far as

00:36:55.010 --> 00:36:58.210
whether it's safe or not. What were the decisions

00:36:58.210 --> 00:37:00.769
made to get to those patients? Sure. That's a

00:37:00.769 --> 00:37:03.530
really good question. And for me, I was the senior

00:37:03.530 --> 00:37:06.349
guy on that day. And I was probably four years

00:37:06.349 --> 00:37:09.070
in. So I was still a junior guy in the grand

00:37:09.070 --> 00:37:12.489
scheme of things. Even though before that call

00:37:12.489 --> 00:37:16.230
rang out, I was riding high. I'm in on the totem

00:37:16.230 --> 00:37:21.059
pole. Yeah, we we basically just we responded

00:37:21.059 --> 00:37:24.480
to people. We had to triage it from ambulance.

00:37:24.579 --> 00:37:26.539
Right. So we're getting as much information as

00:37:26.539 --> 00:37:30.719
we can. And we ultimately just responded to incident

00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:34.860
locations. We responded to scenes geographically,

00:37:34.900 --> 00:37:36.760
like which one are we closest to? Let's go there.

00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:38.940
Then to the next one. You know, we put out a

00:37:38.940 --> 00:37:42.260
request for mutual aid, which out there was was

00:37:42.260 --> 00:37:44.280
hit or miss whether or not it would be answered.

00:37:45.219 --> 00:37:48.800
But we did have deputies. able to make access

00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:51.519
to patients and give us, you know, some semblance

00:37:51.519 --> 00:37:54.619
of a report. So we did our best to triage. Um,

00:37:55.960 --> 00:37:59.519
and, uh, and, and ultimately sequentially over

00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:02.679
the course of probably an hour, um, as sad as

00:38:02.679 --> 00:38:05.800
that is, you know, we made it to our first patient

00:38:05.800 --> 00:38:09.019
that wasn't dead and, um, you know, started in

00:38:09.019 --> 00:38:10.800
at that point, there was two left. We had two

00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:13.659
units available. So we each took one treated

00:38:13.659 --> 00:38:17.599
and transported to the trauma center. So that

00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:20.579
was Union County. Where did you go next and what

00:38:20.579 --> 00:38:24.360
made you transition? So after Union, I left Union

00:38:24.360 --> 00:38:26.739
County to move right across the river, right

00:38:26.739 --> 00:38:29.480
across the county line to Bradford County, Florida.

00:38:29.800 --> 00:38:33.960
And the reason I did that was I had decided that

00:38:33.960 --> 00:38:37.000
I wanted to take my EMS career as far as I could.

00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:40.599
Right. And that meant pursuing a job as a flight

00:38:40.599 --> 00:38:44.380
paramedic, ultimately. And Bradford County was

00:38:44.380 --> 00:38:47.210
operating at a higher level. Um, from a standard

00:38:47.210 --> 00:38:50.150
of care standpoint, um, they did more training,

00:38:50.210 --> 00:38:53.230
they had more resources and I would have more

00:38:53.230 --> 00:38:56.070
access to one, one of the men I mentioned earlier

00:38:56.070 --> 00:38:58.570
that ended up being a huge influence in my life.

00:38:58.670 --> 00:39:01.630
Uh, Dr. Pete Giannis, uh, he was the medical

00:39:01.630 --> 00:39:06.530
director for, uh, Bradford County, um, uh, virtually

00:39:06.530 --> 00:39:09.659
lifelong. resident of the county that everybody

00:39:09.659 --> 00:39:12.719
knew. He had a primary care office as well. Everybody

00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:16.760
knew Dr. Giannis, but on the EMS side, he like

00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:20.400
lived and breathed EMS. I mean, he was there

00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:23.480
at the station every day. He was available. He

00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:27.019
was constantly training with the folks working

00:39:27.019 --> 00:39:30.119
for him. And I just wanted exposure to it. I

00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:32.179
wanted exposure to that. I wanted to learn from

00:39:32.179 --> 00:39:35.159
him, learn from them, learn how to do the job

00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:41.440
better. Again, facilitate my goal of maximizing

00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:44.659
my career in EMS. What did the training look

00:39:44.659 --> 00:39:47.760
like to transition from ground paramedic to flight

00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:52.460
medic? It's actually an interesting question.

00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:55.739
On the flight side, we train less frequently,

00:39:55.860 --> 00:40:01.079
but more intensely. When I worked in Bradford

00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:04.599
County, we had mandatory paid monthly training.

00:40:05.019 --> 00:40:07.820
You're going to train every single month, clinical,

00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:11.920
logistics, operations, the whole nine. But heavy

00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:14.400
emphasis on the clinical medical component of

00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:18.699
it. And we got really, really good. We were really

00:40:18.699 --> 00:40:22.059
good at the job. And I still say it. I fly all

00:40:22.059 --> 00:40:25.500
over the world, really. We have fixed wing capability

00:40:25.500 --> 00:40:28.260
at the program I work for. That's one of the

00:40:28.260 --> 00:40:33.539
best run, highest functioning EMS services out

00:40:33.539 --> 00:40:35.900
there. And I say that with a heavy dose of pride

00:40:35.900 --> 00:40:38.239
because I, I worked there. Right. And I, I got

00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:41.400
to, I can say I came from it, uh, from Dr. Giannis,

00:40:41.500 --> 00:40:46.460
but I guess to your question on the flight side

00:40:46.460 --> 00:40:50.579
of things, we do all of the same training and

00:40:50.579 --> 00:40:53.460
then just take it layers and layers deeper. Right.

00:40:53.500 --> 00:40:56.480
So clinically we're going to explore each condition

00:40:56.480 --> 00:40:59.860
deeper, right? We're going to have more tools

00:40:59.860 --> 00:41:03.519
to treat each thing with. We're also going to,

00:41:03.849 --> 00:41:07.110
train and we do train outside of the typical

00:41:07.110 --> 00:41:11.190
just paramedic scope because we do function as

00:41:11.190 --> 00:41:13.269
an extension of the hospital system that owns

00:41:13.269 --> 00:41:15.969
the helicopter program and they like to market

00:41:15.969 --> 00:41:19.150
us as being able to bring the icu to you and

00:41:19.150 --> 00:41:22.530
that's very much true there's not much we can

00:41:22.530 --> 00:41:25.610
there's not much we can't do in the helicopter

00:41:25.610 --> 00:41:30.769
that a provider in any er or icu couldn't do

00:41:30.769 --> 00:41:33.929
short of, you know, full on surgical procedures.

00:41:34.429 --> 00:41:38.030
Uh, but with that, another thing we do is we

00:41:38.030 --> 00:41:41.909
train the basics hard, right? And we go, we do

00:41:41.909 --> 00:41:43.829
a lot of, um, collaborative training with different

00:41:43.829 --> 00:41:47.389
hospitals, different EMS agencies. Uh, the most,

00:41:47.389 --> 00:41:50.909
the most frequent request we get from EMS agencies

00:41:50.909 --> 00:41:53.789
when we engage to, uh, to do collaborative training

00:41:53.789 --> 00:41:55.369
with them is they all want to airway training.

00:41:55.949 --> 00:42:00.019
And, you know, we show up and I think, I think

00:42:00.019 --> 00:42:02.840
most of the EMS agencies out there, when we first

00:42:02.840 --> 00:42:05.659
walk through the door, they're expecting us to

00:42:05.659 --> 00:42:08.340
have some groundbreaking high speed, you know,

00:42:08.340 --> 00:42:11.260
newfangled high tech airway management techniques

00:42:11.260 --> 00:42:15.239
and tools. And while some of that's true, there

00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:18.000
is an element of that. You know, what I tell

00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:19.800
every single one of them, it's like, Hey guys,

00:42:19.880 --> 00:42:21.960
innovations are stressful, right? It's like a

00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:24.019
stressful thing. It's scary. You know, especially

00:42:24.019 --> 00:42:25.940
the hard ones that you know are going to be hard.

00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:28.340
There's only one track that's going to take.

00:42:28.619 --> 00:42:30.920
all the stress out of your innovations almost

00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:33.500
instantly. And that's when you reach the point

00:42:33.500 --> 00:42:36.280
that you feel confident that you can BLS ventilate

00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:39.460
any human you come across. And that's what we

00:42:39.460 --> 00:42:41.860
train. And that's what will make you better at

00:42:41.860 --> 00:42:44.059
innovating, right? Is knowing that like, Hey,

00:42:44.079 --> 00:42:47.059
if I can't get this tube inside their trachea,

00:42:47.059 --> 00:42:49.860
like no sweat, we can still ventilate them, right?

00:42:49.900 --> 00:42:52.789
Less than ideal. We still ventilate them. So

00:42:52.789 --> 00:42:54.929
that's a bit in the weeds there, probably more

00:42:54.929 --> 00:42:57.489
than you were looking for. But I guess to go

00:42:57.489 --> 00:43:01.030
back to your question, we train less frequently

00:43:01.030 --> 00:43:03.730
just, you know, off of availability, really.

00:43:04.929 --> 00:43:10.030
And I'm sure funding to an extent. But, you know,

00:43:10.030 --> 00:43:13.389
we train less frequently, but more more concertedly,

00:43:13.409 --> 00:43:17.159
I'd say. I think if you listen to any high -functioning

00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:19.099
teams, I hear it from the SEALs, you know, the

00:43:19.099 --> 00:43:22.539
Green Berets, the SAS. It's the basics that they're

00:43:22.539 --> 00:43:25.000
drilling, you know, because, again, as they say,

00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:27.579
also you fall to your level of training. And

00:43:27.579 --> 00:43:29.579
I'm, you know, removed a little bit from the

00:43:29.579 --> 00:43:31.500
fire service now, but there's this whole, like,

00:43:31.579 --> 00:43:34.840
Insta -famous. borderline narcissistic element

00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:36.980
to the fire service now where every man and his

00:43:36.980 --> 00:43:39.000
dog is filming themselves doing a forcible entry

00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:41.219
prop or duck walking spinning the hose which

00:43:41.219 --> 00:43:43.480
i still don't understand you know just freaking

00:43:43.480 --> 00:43:45.019
crawl and grab it and you know you could put

00:43:45.019 --> 00:43:48.809
the fire out but um That being said, the more

00:43:48.809 --> 00:43:52.250
of that that you seem to need to justify your

00:43:52.250 --> 00:43:53.949
existence, the fewer times you're just pulling

00:43:53.949 --> 00:43:56.610
the cross lay. Well, like you said, using a BVM

00:43:56.610 --> 00:43:59.789
and an MPA or, you know, things that, you know,

00:43:59.789 --> 00:44:01.510
you know, then, OK, I can fall back to that.

00:44:01.670 --> 00:44:03.530
And it reminds me when I was a medic student

00:44:03.530 --> 00:44:08.610
here. Great crew. But we had a call and it was

00:44:08.610 --> 00:44:11.889
a wellness check, well -being check. And this

00:44:11.889 --> 00:44:14.710
poor lady had been on the floor of her home for

00:44:14.710 --> 00:44:18.679
three days. her tongue was in the you know it

00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:20.960
just filled the entire space but she was still

00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:23.119
all the vitals are normal sat in at 98 you know

00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:26.699
blood pressure was good pulse was good um and

00:44:26.699 --> 00:44:30.260
the the choice was made by the actual medic to

00:44:30.260 --> 00:44:33.239
intubate and again i was thinking well why don't

00:44:33.239 --> 00:44:35.880
you know if she's doing well now then you literally

00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:38.239
do high flow monitor the the airway and then

00:44:38.239 --> 00:44:39.800
you know obviously if things change then you

00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:44.920
adapt but um so They ended up, you know, paralyzing

00:44:44.920 --> 00:44:47.780
her and then putting a king tube in because you

00:44:47.780 --> 00:44:49.980
couldn't intubate. It was a three, is it Malampati

00:44:49.980 --> 00:44:52.500
scale? I forget the term, but big tongue scale.

00:44:54.079 --> 00:44:58.579
And this poor woman, then we get to the ER and

00:44:58.579 --> 00:45:03.480
one of those horrendous, arrogant type ED doctors

00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:08.070
waltzes in. pulls out the freaking toolbox of

00:45:08.070 --> 00:45:11.690
intubation tools there's blood coming out the

00:45:11.690 --> 00:45:14.469
tube he can't get the tube and it all would have

00:45:14.469 --> 00:45:16.489
been avoided if like you said in that particular

00:45:16.489 --> 00:45:18.969
one okay we probably need you know a glidoscope

00:45:18.969 --> 00:45:21.190
and the anesthesiologist you know someone who's

00:45:21.190 --> 00:45:23.969
in the perfect environment you know she's not

00:45:23.969 --> 00:45:27.630
you know decompensating or anything she is stable

00:45:27.630 --> 00:45:31.150
at the moment Just put a BLS airway in, you know,

00:45:31.150 --> 00:45:33.010
ventilate if you have to. But I mean, she's probably

00:45:33.010 --> 00:45:35.590
just going to need that and, you know, a normal

00:45:35.590 --> 00:45:39.530
breather. But by, like you said, deviating from

00:45:39.530 --> 00:45:42.590
the basics, I don't know if that woman. Now,

00:45:42.690 --> 00:45:44.769
she might not have lived regardless, but the

00:45:44.769 --> 00:45:46.630
treatment she got made it worse, not better.

00:45:47.010 --> 00:45:49.510
And I think that's such an important thing that

00:45:49.510 --> 00:45:51.570
you hear from from your profession, from these

00:45:51.570 --> 00:45:54.289
high level warfighters, is they're not doing

00:45:54.289 --> 00:45:56.989
the freaking Shaolin Kung Fu version of they're

00:45:56.989 --> 00:45:59.710
just getting really good at the most basic things.

00:46:00.150 --> 00:46:02.489
And then, you know, as you build your experience

00:46:02.489 --> 00:46:04.230
and you have a bigger toolbox and you're exposed

00:46:04.230 --> 00:46:06.969
to more calls, oh, we could try this, too. But

00:46:06.969 --> 00:46:09.889
if you don't know how, you know, how to decide

00:46:09.889 --> 00:46:12.539
when not to intubate. That is, I would argue,

00:46:12.579 --> 00:46:15.099
one of the most important first questions for

00:46:15.099 --> 00:46:17.760
yourself. I fully agree. I mean, one of the signs

00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:20.300
of mastery is knowing when less is more, right?

00:46:21.380 --> 00:46:23.360
So, yeah, I've seen that. And I'll go back to

00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:27.460
what you kind of mentioned briefly there in passing,

00:46:27.639 --> 00:46:30.500
this social media craze and this look at me in

00:46:30.500 --> 00:46:32.639
my sexy uniform. We get that in the aeromedical

00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:37.320
world too. And I won't reference where specifically

00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:41.239
I work, but if you end up one of my orientees,

00:46:41.639 --> 00:46:44.719
And I catch you taking selfies and posting them

00:46:44.719 --> 00:46:47.699
all over Instagram when you're orienting with

00:46:47.699 --> 00:46:54.139
me. We're going to talk. I mean, this is a humble

00:46:54.139 --> 00:46:56.639
profession. And they say the term silent professionals

00:46:56.639 --> 00:46:59.159
in the military. And there's no reason to be

00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:00.860
silent. If you're silent, you're not going to

00:47:00.860 --> 00:47:02.440
change things. If you're silent, people aren't

00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:05.159
going to learn and challenge the norm and innovate,

00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:08.260
etc. But there's a difference between being humble.

00:47:08.909 --> 00:47:11.809
And, you know, what we're seeing now. And I've

00:47:11.809 --> 00:47:14.090
said this on here so many times. When I see a

00:47:14.090 --> 00:47:16.449
picture of a crew leaning on their pipe poles

00:47:16.449 --> 00:47:19.070
in front of someone's burnt out home that was

00:47:19.070 --> 00:47:21.489
full of all their memories, you know, the paintings

00:47:21.489 --> 00:47:23.570
on the fridge and their kids' toys and the things

00:47:23.570 --> 00:47:26.190
they put in the attic from generations before.

00:47:27.030 --> 00:47:28.969
And all you're thinking is about, well, I need

00:47:28.969 --> 00:47:30.809
this for my Facebook page or my Instagram or

00:47:30.809 --> 00:47:34.230
my TikTok. Absolutely. If a PIO takes pictures,

00:47:34.309 --> 00:47:35.969
the paper takes pictures of you fighting the

00:47:35.969 --> 00:47:39.289
fire, 100 percent. Find somewhere away from their

00:47:39.289 --> 00:47:41.590
home and take a crew picture. Amazing. But have

00:47:41.590 --> 00:47:43.730
some fucking consideration for these people.

00:47:44.050 --> 00:47:45.869
You know, the car behind them, you know, their

00:47:45.869 --> 00:47:48.289
teenager died three days later. You know what

00:47:48.289 --> 00:47:51.150
I mean? We've got to hold ourselves accountable

00:47:51.150 --> 00:47:54.170
for that part, too. I agree. You know, but at

00:47:54.170 --> 00:47:56.630
the same time, it's a dangerous game to play,

00:47:56.690 --> 00:47:58.730
right? Like, if you don't find humility yourself,

00:47:59.070 --> 00:48:03.710
it'll find you. You know, those tend to be the

00:48:03.710 --> 00:48:06.389
less proficient, less hard training, you know,

00:48:06.389 --> 00:48:09.010
taking the job less serious than they, you know,

00:48:09.010 --> 00:48:12.929
take themselves. You know, they will be humbled,

00:48:13.010 --> 00:48:17.650
unfortunately, sooner or later. What about skills,

00:48:17.849 --> 00:48:20.530
innovations that you have on the helicopter or

00:48:20.530 --> 00:48:24.170
the plane that we don't have as a regular ground

00:48:24.170 --> 00:48:27.670
paramedic? Sure. So mostly redundancy for everything.

00:48:28.420 --> 00:48:32.059
right? You know, vasoactive drugs, vasoactive

00:48:32.059 --> 00:48:34.780
medications, suppressors, you know, on, on rescue,

00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:38.579
you may have epi and levophed or, or epi and

00:48:38.579 --> 00:48:40.679
dopamine, something like that. We're going to

00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:42.760
have six or seven of them. Yeah. So we'll have

00:48:42.760 --> 00:48:45.659
different options, which allows us to, to fine

00:48:45.659 --> 00:48:49.059
tune, you know, with more accuracy for more specific,

00:48:49.159 --> 00:48:52.599
you know, patient sets. We do have more tools,

00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:56.679
more fun stuff to play with. Even though, like

00:48:56.679 --> 00:49:00.239
I mentioned, we hard focus on the basics as hard

00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:02.980
as anything else, we do have the sexy stuff too.

00:49:03.199 --> 00:49:06.239
We start arterial lines. We start central lines.

00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:11.559
We carry and place chest tubes. Managing airways,

00:49:11.739 --> 00:49:14.340
we're going to have more redundancy there. We'll

00:49:14.340 --> 00:49:19.219
have more ways to do that. I am glad to see the

00:49:19.219 --> 00:49:22.659
EMS world, fire rescue world, follow suit and

00:49:22.659 --> 00:49:25.059
catch up in this regard. But we've had video

00:49:25.059 --> 00:49:30.400
laryngoscope technology for a long time, whereas

00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:33.820
most ground EMS programs haven't. But I do think

00:49:33.820 --> 00:49:36.480
they're catching up in that regard. So, yeah,

00:49:36.519 --> 00:49:39.239
basically more redundancy, more options for any

00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:42.460
given thing and more procedures, I guess, just

00:49:42.460 --> 00:49:44.760
the ability to operate on a slightly higher level.

00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:48.920
How do you become proficient at some of those

00:49:48.920 --> 00:49:51.260
skills like chest tubes? Is that ER time at that

00:49:51.260 --> 00:49:54.000
point? Yep. So the program I work for is really

00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:56.780
good at giving you in -hospital orientation time

00:49:56.780 --> 00:50:00.519
just to do procedures and get skills in. It was

00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:02.500
elective when I was hired, but it's mandatory

00:50:02.500 --> 00:50:06.920
now. They have a much more robust, structured

00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:10.780
orientation process, you know, and for good reason.

00:50:11.449 --> 00:50:14.090
Um, so you do get training, you do have, uh,

00:50:14.130 --> 00:50:18.190
proficiencies you have to maintain. So, um, training

00:50:18.190 --> 00:50:20.690
throughout the year, you'll be checked off on,

00:50:20.750 --> 00:50:24.010
you know, performing procedures on a mannequin,

00:50:24.010 --> 00:50:27.369
you know, on an innovation, whatever, uh, simulating,

00:50:27.369 --> 00:50:30.769
but you do have to maintain a, uh, you know,

00:50:30.769 --> 00:50:34.050
a certain, whatever predetermined look back.

00:50:34.130 --> 00:50:37.210
So a three month or a six month look back. to

00:50:37.210 --> 00:50:39.530
having one of those procedures, right? So if

00:50:39.530 --> 00:50:42.630
I haven't started an arterial line in six months,

00:50:42.809 --> 00:50:45.570
I turn into a pumpkin and I get sent to the ER

00:50:45.570 --> 00:50:48.050
or to the OR and have to go actually do that

00:50:48.050 --> 00:50:50.670
procedure on a human. It's the same with airways,

00:50:50.690 --> 00:50:52.590
same with all the invasive procedures we do.

00:50:53.170 --> 00:50:56.710
You're, you're held to a standard, but it's also

00:50:56.710 --> 00:50:59.230
expected that you hold yourself to a standard.

00:50:59.309 --> 00:51:04.449
And if you don't, if, if you don't Also hold

00:51:04.449 --> 00:51:06.489
yourself to a standard that's somewhere above

00:51:06.489 --> 00:51:09.590
the bar, you know, that's set. You're not going

00:51:09.590 --> 00:51:12.389
to last long. Yeah, I think that's that's the

00:51:12.389 --> 00:51:14.750
conversation and we'll get to work weeks next.

00:51:15.130 --> 00:51:18.369
But this is this is the thing is a lot of times

00:51:18.369 --> 00:51:20.409
when there's any conversation, the fire service,

00:51:20.429 --> 00:51:23.150
there's either. Well, it's all the administration's

00:51:23.150 --> 00:51:25.809
responsibility or it's all the firefighters responsibility.

00:51:26.369 --> 00:51:29.969
And the answer is. Yes and yes. It's the both.

00:51:30.449 --> 00:51:33.670
It's on us to be proficient. It's on us to be

00:51:33.670 --> 00:51:36.130
fit. It's on us to be well -rested. And then

00:51:36.130 --> 00:51:37.730
we can control that, especially with the rest

00:51:37.730 --> 00:51:39.690
on our days off. And that's on us. Are we going

00:51:39.690 --> 00:51:41.969
to bed properly? Are we drinking alcohol till

00:51:41.969 --> 00:51:44.510
four in the morning? That's our part that we

00:51:44.510 --> 00:51:47.409
own. But then also, is the environment that we

00:51:47.409 --> 00:51:50.090
work in setting us up for success? Is the union

00:51:50.090 --> 00:51:52.050
fighting fitness standards or are they holding

00:51:52.050 --> 00:51:54.670
us as tactical athletes like they should? And

00:51:54.670 --> 00:51:57.050
that's an environmental thing. So when you've

00:51:57.050 --> 00:52:00.130
got a... fired up first responder arguably from

00:52:00.130 --> 00:52:03.130
a competitive hiring system as we both experienced

00:52:03.130 --> 00:52:06.050
you know 20 plus years ago who's then in a good

00:52:06.050 --> 00:52:08.170
environment that lifts them up you know Gainesville

00:52:08.170 --> 00:52:10.889
Pasco would be good examples at the moment now

00:52:10.889 --> 00:52:13.150
you're going to have that perfect storm of you

00:52:13.150 --> 00:52:16.110
know of positive elements that's going to just

00:52:16.110 --> 00:52:19.860
give you great firefighters and paramedics Yeah,

00:52:19.880 --> 00:52:21.780
fully agree with that. And I love, you know,

00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:23.760
you mentioned a few certain departments that

00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:26.559
are, you know, have recently or were in the near

00:52:26.559 --> 00:52:31.000
past switch to a 2472 shift structure. And that's

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:32.880
fantastic. You know, and that's something I can

00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:35.860
definitely speak to having worked fire rescue

00:52:35.860 --> 00:52:38.880
on not a 24 worked fire rescue where I was getting

00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:42.219
mandatory twice a week. So it was 48 on one off

00:52:42.219 --> 00:52:47.460
48 on forever. Just in perpetuity, like never

00:52:47.460 --> 00:52:49.699
ended, just constant beatings one after another.

00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:53.079
So I know how that goes. I know how that wears

00:52:53.079 --> 00:52:55.639
on a body. I know how that wears on a family.

00:52:56.820 --> 00:53:00.139
I know how that weighs on mental health and just

00:53:00.139 --> 00:53:02.980
what it does to people and families and communities

00:53:02.980 --> 00:53:06.340
and the quality of service that any given department

00:53:06.340 --> 00:53:10.880
is providing. Right. It cuts against that. On

00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:15.179
the air medical side, we've been on 24 -72s for

00:53:15.179 --> 00:53:17.460
a while. I've been working them for 12 years

00:53:17.460 --> 00:53:20.679
now, and it was around before I entered this

00:53:20.679 --> 00:53:25.199
world. Night and day difference. I hope you don't

00:53:25.199 --> 00:53:27.139
mind me taking liberty to speak to this a bit.

00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:30.940
Please. Anyone listening knows this is my favorite

00:53:30.940 --> 00:53:33.019
topic, so go ahead. Yeah, well, let's go there.

00:53:33.099 --> 00:53:37.699
We'll explore it. From my seat. So my last few

00:53:37.699 --> 00:53:41.019
years working rescue, probably my last two years,

00:53:41.139 --> 00:53:44.760
I was noticing changes in myself, right? Like

00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:48.039
changes in my affect changes in my general attitude.

00:53:48.780 --> 00:53:51.920
I started noticing physical changes. You know,

00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:54.360
one day I'll never forget. I don't know what,

00:53:54.400 --> 00:53:56.340
I can't give you the date, but I remember the

00:53:56.340 --> 00:54:01.179
moment I was at work back end of a 48. So back

00:54:01.179 --> 00:54:04.719
off of a 48, it was busy. I used the restroom

00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:06.340
and when I was washing my hands, I looked at

00:54:06.340 --> 00:54:09.159
myself in the mirror. And it just like, it hit

00:54:09.159 --> 00:54:12.980
me. Like I looked like dog shit. I looked terrible.

00:54:13.300 --> 00:54:16.559
Um, like physically I looked bad, right? It was

00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:19.420
gone. It bags under my eyes. I looked older than

00:54:19.420 --> 00:54:21.639
I was. And it was in that moment where I was

00:54:21.639 --> 00:54:23.659
like, man, I really got to speed up the timeline

00:54:23.659 --> 00:54:27.579
here. And I did. So I really kind of went, you

00:54:27.579 --> 00:54:30.139
know, full steam ahead, uh, pursuing a flight

00:54:30.139 --> 00:54:33.880
position and, uh, had to interview twice. Uh,

00:54:33.940 --> 00:54:37.059
but I got it. And it was night and day difference

00:54:37.059 --> 00:54:40.800
overnight in a few ways. And then there was some

00:54:40.800 --> 00:54:44.619
lag in some other regards. So what caused the

00:54:44.619 --> 00:54:47.800
lag was that first year I told you about working

00:54:47.800 --> 00:54:51.199
AMS, how I hated the job that started over again.

00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:54.599
Like I had all that new guy stress. What if I'm

00:54:54.599 --> 00:54:57.300
not ready? What do I need to do to prepare myself

00:54:57.300 --> 00:55:00.219
for this job? You know, oh, my God, I'm working

00:55:00.219 --> 00:55:02.119
with people that are all better than me. I'm

00:55:02.119 --> 00:55:04.519
going to be exposed, you know, imposter syndrome.

00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:09.320
All those things. But once I, you know, kind

00:55:09.320 --> 00:55:13.260
of found my footing, found my stride and settled

00:55:13.260 --> 00:55:17.900
in, having that extra day off legitimately in

00:55:17.900 --> 00:55:21.159
115 different ways changed my life for the better.

00:55:21.260 --> 00:55:23.960
Right. I looked better. I was better rested.

00:55:24.039 --> 00:55:25.800
I was in a better headspace. I had more time

00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:31.519
with my family. And now looking back, being able

00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:34.719
to take stock, I mean, it showed in so many ways.

00:55:35.579 --> 00:55:38.659
Also, I can speak to the function of the organization.

00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:42.320
Folks aren't getting mandatory on the flight

00:55:42.320 --> 00:55:45.780
team. Yeah, there'll be a shift that they're

00:55:45.780 --> 00:55:48.519
looking for coverage here and there. But there's

00:55:48.519 --> 00:55:50.760
usually somebody willing to pick it up because

00:55:50.760 --> 00:55:53.880
everybody's not. beat into the dirt, you know,

00:55:53.900 --> 00:55:57.099
um, we have four shifts they're staffed and we

00:55:57.099 --> 00:56:01.119
don't go out of service for staffing. Um, so,

00:56:01.219 --> 00:56:04.880
you know, any, any of you, I'll also speak to,

00:56:04.920 --> 00:56:06.860
you know, the counties that haven't adopted this

00:56:06.860 --> 00:56:09.079
yet. You know, again, like I mentioned earlier,

00:56:09.219 --> 00:56:11.300
we do a lot of collaborative training with EMS,

00:56:11.380 --> 00:56:14.139
with EMS programs, fire rescue programs, schools.

00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:17.760
Um, This is recent, too. This was within the

00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:21.559
last month. We went and did an LZ safety class

00:56:21.559 --> 00:56:27.820
with one of the local fire rescue slash EMT first

00:56:27.820 --> 00:56:33.019
responder colleges in our area here. And the

00:56:33.019 --> 00:56:35.659
class I was speaking to was a class full of EMTs.

00:56:35.699 --> 00:56:37.739
It was probably 30 students. And I was chopping

00:56:37.739 --> 00:56:39.659
it up, you know, talking to all of them, asking

00:56:39.659 --> 00:56:41.000
them all the questions. And they're like, hey,

00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:42.260
what are your goals? Where do you want to go?

00:56:42.760 --> 00:56:44.440
You know, where do you want to end up? Have you

00:56:44.440 --> 00:56:46.719
applied anywhere? What are you thinking? And

00:56:46.719 --> 00:56:51.280
I kept getting atypical answers to that setting.

00:56:51.460 --> 00:56:54.139
Like usually you hear the three big departments

00:56:54.139 --> 00:56:57.179
right in this general immediate area. But no,

00:56:57.219 --> 00:56:59.579
I was getting consistently getting answers for

00:56:59.579 --> 00:57:02.579
counties that were hours away. You know, counties

00:57:02.579 --> 00:57:04.940
that are on like the bottom half of the state.

00:57:05.559 --> 00:57:07.179
And, you know, so I started asking, I was like,

00:57:07.219 --> 00:57:09.019
hey, are you from there? And they're like, no,

00:57:09.079 --> 00:57:13.280
but they're on 2472s. And that made me so happy,

00:57:13.380 --> 00:57:16.460
so happy to hear. Because when I came into this

00:57:16.460 --> 00:57:19.519
world, the fire rescue world, it was competitive.

00:57:19.900 --> 00:57:23.179
Like I applied, I interviewed many places before

00:57:23.179 --> 00:57:26.519
I got an offer, before I got an invite to actually

00:57:26.519 --> 00:57:29.400
sit down for an interview. And whatever your

00:57:29.400 --> 00:57:32.159
first offer was, you took it. You know, you took

00:57:32.159 --> 00:57:34.280
it and ran with it and held on for dear life.

00:57:35.380 --> 00:57:40.739
So I'm glad to see that the landscape is such

00:57:40.739 --> 00:57:44.260
that these young folks coming into the profession,

00:57:44.420 --> 00:57:49.159
one, have the ability to curate where they want

00:57:49.159 --> 00:57:53.019
to work first. And two, that they have the awareness

00:57:53.019 --> 00:57:56.059
to factor that in. So I'm going to speak to two

00:57:56.059 --> 00:57:57.840
groups of people right now, if you don't mind.

00:57:57.920 --> 00:58:00.199
Please. So first, anyone out there that's looking

00:58:00.199 --> 00:58:01.940
to go this track. So if you're looking to be

00:58:01.940 --> 00:58:05.239
an EMT, paramedic, firefighter, work in the air

00:58:05.239 --> 00:58:08.079
medical world, work in the hospital, wherever.

00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:11.719
Please, if there's one thing you take from this

00:58:11.719 --> 00:58:15.099
podcast, do not sell yourself short. You have

00:58:15.099 --> 00:58:18.880
time. Find the place that's going to be the best,

00:58:18.920 --> 00:58:22.260
healthiest. place for you to land right like

00:58:22.260 --> 00:58:25.820
do that you know and that may be the first place

00:58:25.820 --> 00:58:28.860
you interview but it may not just don't rush

00:58:28.860 --> 00:58:31.380
to jump in and if you have to take that first

00:58:31.380 --> 00:58:33.900
job just keep your head up keep your eyes on

00:58:33.900 --> 00:58:37.159
the horizon and pay attention to yourself because

00:58:37.159 --> 00:58:40.280
these these jobs will beat you down they will

00:58:40.280 --> 00:58:42.920
take from you without giving back and without

00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:46.260
caring how you're doing right And I, you know,

00:58:46.280 --> 00:58:47.900
I have another opinion to share on that. If you

00:58:47.900 --> 00:58:50.019
bring me back to it at some point in the future,

00:58:50.059 --> 00:58:51.739
and this is what I'm going to speak to what we're

00:58:51.739 --> 00:58:56.119
doing at the incomeologist, but so any, um, anyone

00:58:56.119 --> 00:58:58.539
aspiring to, to join any of these professions

00:58:58.539 --> 00:59:00.980
that we're speaking to, please bear that in mind.

00:59:01.019 --> 00:59:03.519
You do have a choice. You do have a say, and

00:59:03.519 --> 00:59:05.659
you definitely have a vested interest in where

00:59:05.659 --> 00:59:09.659
you land too. Um, I'd also like to speak to all

00:59:09.659 --> 00:59:12.679
the leaders out there. Um, I understand this

00:59:12.679 --> 00:59:16.159
is, uh, you know, likely perceived as a paradigm

00:59:16.159 --> 00:59:19.599
shift or, you know, there's, it's a big change,

00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:23.539
right? It's a big change to consider, but it

00:59:23.539 --> 00:59:26.380
will serve you well to consider making this change.

00:59:26.579 --> 00:59:29.599
The data sets out there, James spoken to it ad

00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:33.400
nauseum, the, the, the data supports, it's not

00:59:33.400 --> 00:59:35.940
empiric anymore. It's not just a concept that

00:59:35.940 --> 00:59:39.639
sounds good. This, this will be a positive for

00:59:39.639 --> 00:59:43.989
your team. It'll be a positive for your. whomever

00:59:43.989 --> 00:59:47.510
you're serving, city, county, hospital, you know,

00:59:47.510 --> 00:59:51.789
patients, whatever, it's going to be a benefit

00:59:51.789 --> 00:59:53.329
to them and it's going to be a benefit to you.

00:59:53.869 --> 00:59:58.909
And if the positive incentive isn't enough, your

00:59:58.909 --> 01:00:01.750
hand will be forced because the landscape is

01:00:01.750 --> 01:00:04.989
such to where folks are able to choose where

01:00:04.989 --> 01:00:09.079
they want to work. Take that for what it's worth,

01:00:09.179 --> 01:00:11.820
the grain of sand coming from a lowly flight

01:00:11.820 --> 01:00:14.480
paramedic. But I've been around long enough to

01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:18.219
see the landscape change. And in some ways, I'm

01:00:18.219 --> 01:00:20.119
thrilled with what I'm seeing. In other ways,

01:00:20.159 --> 01:00:24.000
I'm horrified. That's a really powerful perspective,

01:00:24.179 --> 01:00:27.880
especially coming from the 2448 world. When you

01:00:27.880 --> 01:00:29.840
started seeing this shift, when you were looking

01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:31.619
in the mirror and seeing an old man looking back,

01:00:31.800 --> 01:00:33.960
after how many years, how many years have you

01:00:33.960 --> 01:00:36.880
had on? at that point that was probably eight

01:00:36.880 --> 01:00:41.460
years in exactly of a potentially 25 30 year

01:00:41.460 --> 01:00:44.380
career so this is this is the point it's not

01:00:44.380 --> 01:00:46.679
like you said it's irrefutable on the science

01:00:46.679 --> 01:00:49.739
side it's irrefutable on the neighboring departments

01:00:49.739 --> 01:00:51.400
that we've had that have gone i was just talking

01:00:51.400 --> 01:00:55.079
to pasco county's president again today and it's

01:00:55.079 --> 01:00:58.679
just unending success from morale to now they're

01:00:58.679 --> 01:01:00.860
negotiating pay because they've got the good

01:01:00.860 --> 01:01:02.579
work week now it's like okay well how can we

01:01:02.579 --> 01:01:05.409
put some things in that will then factor into

01:01:05.409 --> 01:01:07.750
you know as people top out and that kind of thing

01:01:07.750 --> 01:01:10.090
that we can get it back because they gave up

01:01:10.090 --> 01:01:12.989
a lot of the as they were talking to me he was

01:01:12.989 --> 01:01:14.769
telling me you know the top end stuff was kind

01:01:14.769 --> 01:01:17.550
of given away to attract people by making starting

01:01:17.550 --> 01:01:20.070
pace better well if you attract people with a

01:01:20.070 --> 01:01:22.489
healthy and working environment now you can go

01:01:22.489 --> 01:01:25.309
back and help the air quotes old guys more where

01:01:25.309 --> 01:01:27.469
you know you can top out a higher level and you

01:01:27.469 --> 01:01:29.389
can go to your county on your city and say well

01:01:29.389 --> 01:01:32.489
look we saved you millions by all this overtime

01:01:32.489 --> 01:01:35.010
that's gone away And people say, you know, but

01:01:35.010 --> 01:01:37.250
we've paid for all these new firefighters. Yes.

01:01:38.170 --> 01:01:42.170
So if your schools, for example, the walls are

01:01:42.170 --> 01:01:44.409
about to explode because you had so many students

01:01:44.409 --> 01:01:47.389
and a terrible student to teacher ratio. And

01:01:47.389 --> 01:01:48.710
one day someone said, well, we're just going

01:01:48.710 --> 01:01:50.349
to build a new school. We're going to invest

01:01:50.349 --> 01:01:52.349
in our community and put a new school. And now

01:01:52.349 --> 01:01:55.269
we have another entire building full of great

01:01:55.269 --> 01:01:57.949
teachers that now we can spread the kids around.

01:01:58.030 --> 01:01:59.909
They're going to get a better ratio, better education

01:01:59.909 --> 01:02:05.159
versus. Those four schools, you know, about to

01:02:05.159 --> 01:02:07.739
explode and just paying overtime to the teachers

01:02:07.739 --> 01:02:09.420
to fill the spots that, you know what I mean?

01:02:09.679 --> 01:02:12.199
It's not even apples to apples. Like you've invested

01:02:12.199 --> 01:02:14.940
in another entire shift of firefighters for the

01:02:14.940 --> 01:02:17.539
same money or less money than you were bleeding

01:02:17.539 --> 01:02:21.139
with this crisis that we have. So, you know,

01:02:21.159 --> 01:02:23.980
I agree completely. And we were talking before

01:02:23.980 --> 01:02:26.400
we hit record. I have a lot of people that have

01:02:26.400 --> 01:02:28.539
recently said, well, I don't want my kid to become

01:02:28.539 --> 01:02:31.070
a firefighter. And I tell them, no, they should.

01:02:31.210 --> 01:02:33.250
It is the greatest calling in the world, which

01:02:33.250 --> 01:02:35.730
is why seven years after taking the uniform off,

01:02:35.809 --> 01:02:39.289
I'm still having conversations like this. Because

01:02:39.289 --> 01:02:41.570
what you learn in the fire academy isn't the

01:02:41.570 --> 01:02:44.929
work week. It's the job. What you learn in EMT

01:02:44.929 --> 01:02:47.190
school or medic school and flight medic school

01:02:47.190 --> 01:02:51.110
is the job. Who you work for dictates the working

01:02:51.110 --> 01:02:53.690
environment. So work for a good department, not

01:02:53.690 --> 01:02:56.420
a bad department. with a courageous chief or

01:02:56.420 --> 01:02:58.579
courageous union president that will fight for

01:02:58.579 --> 01:03:00.199
you and make sure that your working environment

01:03:00.199 --> 01:03:03.599
gets you home to your kids as much as possible.

01:03:03.679 --> 01:03:06.039
And when you are at work, that you're a high

01:03:06.039 --> 01:03:08.820
-performing, fit paramedic, firefighter, whatever

01:03:08.820 --> 01:03:11.599
your goal is. And just to your point, if you're

01:03:11.599 --> 01:03:13.880
coming out of the Florida Fire College, for example,

01:03:13.880 --> 01:03:17.400
in our town here in Ocala, and someone says to

01:03:17.400 --> 01:03:19.000
me, where should I work? I'm going to tell them

01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:22.230
Pasco or Gainesville. Hands down. Because they

01:03:22.230 --> 01:03:25.150
are four shifts, fully staffed. You know, they're

01:03:25.150 --> 01:03:27.190
getting these veterans in all these classes now.

01:03:27.269 --> 01:03:29.730
So even, you know, their new hires have got years

01:03:29.730 --> 01:03:32.269
on the job. That's who you want to be around,

01:03:32.469 --> 01:03:35.309
full stop. And so, yeah, if you are resisting

01:03:35.309 --> 01:03:39.150
this movement, and as I said, which really nauseates

01:03:39.150 --> 01:03:42.340
me, and I'll underline it again. You are from

01:03:42.340 --> 01:03:45.119
the generation that created this crisis in the

01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:47.719
first place and you go home at five o 'clock

01:03:47.719 --> 01:03:49.840
every night and you sleep well knowing that your

01:03:49.840 --> 01:03:51.980
men and women are getting mandatory and there's

01:03:51.980 --> 01:03:53.599
cancer and there's heart disease and there's

01:03:53.599 --> 01:03:58.340
suicides and divorces and you're unwilling to

01:03:58.340 --> 01:04:00.579
make the change, then step aside and let a real

01:04:00.579 --> 01:04:04.059
leader in. Because as I've said many, many years,

01:04:04.179 --> 01:04:06.619
you can be the person who turned the ship around

01:04:06.619 --> 01:04:09.539
and be the hero of your own story. Or you can

01:04:09.539 --> 01:04:12.340
be the person that went down with the ship. You

01:04:12.340 --> 01:04:15.219
know, you caused the ship to fail. So who do

01:04:15.219 --> 01:04:17.420
you want to be? Because one of those two is coming.

01:04:17.820 --> 01:04:21.139
And if you don't change and all these young people,

01:04:21.199 --> 01:04:23.559
these fired up, you know, firefighter EMTs and

01:04:23.559 --> 01:04:25.500
paramedics are going to these good departments,

01:04:25.800 --> 01:04:28.159
you think you have a recruitment crisis now?

01:04:28.940 --> 01:04:35.349
Just you wait. Yeah. Amen. I want to move forward

01:04:35.349 --> 01:04:37.869
to the entomologists, but while we're on the

01:04:37.869 --> 01:04:39.809
flight medic, we talked about your perspective

01:04:39.809 --> 01:04:43.230
as far as what you want in the airframe. For

01:04:43.230 --> 01:04:45.849
us on the ground, what's some advice that you

01:04:45.849 --> 01:04:48.630
would give the MTs, the paramedics, to set you

01:04:48.630 --> 01:04:50.909
guys up for success as far as patient transition?

01:04:51.690 --> 01:04:55.570
That's a really good question. The first thing

01:04:55.570 --> 01:04:58.269
I'll speak to is safety. That was a big shift

01:04:58.269 --> 01:05:04.750
when I went from ground EMS to air medical. there's

01:05:04.750 --> 01:05:08.710
a safety culture, right? Legitimately and for

01:05:08.710 --> 01:05:10.650
good reason. It's much more dangerous to fly

01:05:10.650 --> 01:05:14.409
around in a helicopter. You know, a million moving

01:05:14.409 --> 01:05:16.650
parts are all moving really fast and it's like

01:05:16.650 --> 01:05:19.369
kind of pure magic what actually makes the thing

01:05:19.369 --> 01:05:22.650
fly. But where I'm going with this is to your

01:05:22.650 --> 01:05:27.119
question. It's we are largely... Reliant on whomever

01:05:27.119 --> 01:05:29.460
is on the ground, wherever we're going, to keep

01:05:29.460 --> 01:05:32.239
us safe. Especially if it's an austere scene,

01:05:32.500 --> 01:05:35.400
it's not a pre -designated landing zone or somewhere

01:05:35.400 --> 01:05:37.780
that's already been given the papal blessing

01:05:37.780 --> 01:05:41.139
as safe to land there. We'll come get to you,

01:05:41.199 --> 01:05:44.739
for sure, but we're relying on you to make sure

01:05:44.739 --> 01:05:47.179
we're not going to land on a power line or there's

01:05:47.179 --> 01:05:48.900
not something on the ground that we can't see.

01:05:49.530 --> 01:05:52.489
I guess one piece of advice I'd give is don't

01:05:52.489 --> 01:05:55.889
assume because you on the ground can see something

01:05:55.889 --> 01:05:58.989
that we can see it. We likely can't. Everything

01:05:58.989 --> 01:06:01.889
looks different from up there, and everything's

01:06:01.889 --> 01:06:05.230
a lot smaller. So hyper -communicate. Ideally,

01:06:05.230 --> 01:06:07.429
you'll have radio contact between the helicopter

01:06:07.429 --> 01:06:12.409
and whoever's LZ command or scene command. Just

01:06:12.409 --> 01:06:15.349
hyper -communicate any and everything you see

01:06:15.349 --> 01:06:17.349
that you think may be a factor that could affect.

01:06:18.119 --> 01:06:20.400
The safety of us landing and getting in and out

01:06:20.400 --> 01:06:25.699
of a helicopter. We got it from there. The more

01:06:25.699 --> 01:06:28.480
patient information you can give us early, the

01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:32.000
better we can prepare. But I would just stress,

01:06:32.199 --> 01:06:36.539
think safety, and then we'll get a patient report

01:06:36.539 --> 01:06:41.320
once we get there. We didn't really talk about

01:06:41.320 --> 01:06:45.659
the... first responder kind of nursing dynamic

01:06:45.659 --> 01:06:47.880
as far as your marriage and family. So before

01:06:47.880 --> 01:06:50.559
we move to the incomeologists, talk to me about

01:06:50.559 --> 01:06:53.360
what your wife does a profession. And then let's

01:06:53.360 --> 01:06:55.340
talk about the dynamic of that over the last,

01:06:55.380 --> 01:06:57.440
you know, several years that you've been together.

01:06:57.760 --> 01:07:01.179
Sure. So, um, so my wife, Leanne, uh, she was

01:07:01.179 --> 01:07:03.820
a flight paramedic as well. Uh, she retired,

01:07:03.920 --> 01:07:07.480
um, year before last after 24 years in clinical

01:07:07.480 --> 01:07:10.079
healthcare. which is wild for me to say because

01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:13.820
it's indicative of my own age. But it's also

01:07:13.820 --> 01:07:15.639
wild because you look at her and she looks like

01:07:15.639 --> 01:07:17.599
10 years younger than I do, which isn't fair.

01:07:17.840 --> 01:07:21.260
And it's exclusively why I do CrossFit and go

01:07:21.260 --> 01:07:25.519
to Iron Legion Strength and Combat. But, you

01:07:25.519 --> 01:07:29.260
know, speaking to our careers, she actually still

01:07:29.260 --> 01:07:32.559
worked rescue PRN when I was at Bradford County.

01:07:32.780 --> 01:07:34.659
So that was the first time we worked together.

01:07:36.349 --> 01:07:38.409
you know it's really interesting i never worked

01:07:38.409 --> 01:07:42.849
with you know a partner before a spouse and um

01:07:42.849 --> 01:07:45.690
we actually did work rescue together a few times

01:07:45.690 --> 01:07:48.309
you know schedule slipped through the crack you

01:07:48.309 --> 01:07:50.090
know we were kind of like should we say something

01:07:50.090 --> 01:07:53.150
like no let's do it and those are probably the

01:07:53.150 --> 01:07:55.760
most stressful shifts i've ever had Because of

01:07:55.760 --> 01:07:57.659
the pressure to perform, it's like, man, I really

01:07:57.659 --> 01:07:59.219
got to perform in front of this chick. It was

01:07:59.219 --> 01:08:03.119
pretty early in our relationship. But just broadly

01:08:03.119 --> 01:08:07.559
speaking to our parallel career paths and being

01:08:07.559 --> 01:08:10.300
together and married through them, it's been

01:08:10.300 --> 01:08:13.920
a lot of good and a lot of bad, too. But mostly

01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:19.140
good. The pros to marrying someone in the same

01:08:19.140 --> 01:08:23.140
field, I would say there's a mutual understanding

01:08:23.140 --> 01:08:27.409
of the demands of the job. Um, the mutual, you

01:08:27.409 --> 01:08:29.850
know, the understanding of when one of you experiences

01:08:29.850 --> 01:08:33.949
something impactful in a negative way, or even

01:08:33.949 --> 01:08:36.989
a positive way, the other, your partner understands

01:08:36.989 --> 01:08:40.489
what that means. Right. So you are able to dial

01:08:40.489 --> 01:08:43.170
in and really look out for each other, you know,

01:08:43.170 --> 01:08:45.970
and there's, there's one call in my whole career

01:08:45.970 --> 01:08:49.270
that like really, really hit me hard. And, um,

01:08:49.390 --> 01:08:51.170
you know, kind of took me to a dark place for

01:08:51.170 --> 01:08:54.890
a while. And honestly, I couldn't imagine. like

01:08:54.890 --> 01:08:57.289
kind of working through that one without Leanne

01:08:57.289 --> 01:09:01.789
and without her understanding what that call

01:09:01.789 --> 01:09:05.390
meant and like what it did to me, you know, how

01:09:05.390 --> 01:09:10.529
it weighed on me. So, you know, mutual support,

01:09:10.689 --> 01:09:13.069
mutual understanding. We were able to sync our

01:09:13.069 --> 01:09:16.470
schedules up pretty early in my career, the flight

01:09:16.470 --> 01:09:17.810
team, and she was working in the same flight

01:09:17.810 --> 01:09:21.649
team. So we on a 24, 72 hour schedule, we had

01:09:21.649 --> 01:09:24.439
three out of every four days off together. which

01:09:24.439 --> 01:09:28.560
just opened the world up to adventure and maximizing

01:09:28.560 --> 01:09:30.760
our time together, which we still do. It's our

01:09:30.760 --> 01:09:34.500
overarching priority in life. Every macro decision

01:09:34.500 --> 01:09:38.319
is based on maximizing our time together, which

01:09:38.319 --> 01:09:41.659
is fantastic. And while we were both working

01:09:41.659 --> 01:09:44.479
in this world, owe a lot of that to the career.

01:09:45.479 --> 01:09:48.520
There's cons, too. You know, work -life creep.

01:09:48.979 --> 01:09:52.060
It's hard to separate the two. And, you know,

01:09:52.060 --> 01:09:54.560
interestingly, we're working together, the incomeologists

01:09:54.560 --> 01:09:58.119
now, too. So kind of same dynamic there, but

01:09:58.119 --> 01:10:00.060
from a different angle, you know, with a different

01:10:00.060 --> 01:10:04.699
flavor. But, you know, separating work life and

01:10:04.699 --> 01:10:07.840
non -work life can be a real challenge. It can

01:10:07.840 --> 01:10:11.579
lead to, you know, a hyper focusing on the negative

01:10:11.579 --> 01:10:14.899
aspects, you know, the downsides to the job,

01:10:14.920 --> 01:10:18.920
the gripes. It can lead to ruminating, you know,

01:10:18.920 --> 01:10:21.789
to an unhealthy degree. And, you know, you just

01:10:21.789 --> 01:10:24.789
hope that one of you, you know, you switch off

01:10:24.789 --> 01:10:26.550
like who's going to be the one that kind of pulls

01:10:26.550 --> 01:10:29.470
us out of this rumination cycle. But there's

01:10:29.470 --> 01:10:32.130
that. And then also this is a bit tongue in cheek,

01:10:32.229 --> 01:10:36.350
I guess. But, you know, having intertwined professional

01:10:36.350 --> 01:10:40.989
relationships can oddly be difficult to navigate.

01:10:41.550 --> 01:10:44.670
Right. So I used to speak at a lot of conferences

01:10:44.670 --> 01:10:47.909
and I kind of throttled that back because I am.

01:10:48.390 --> 01:10:50.630
I kind of prided myself on like making noise.

01:10:50.850 --> 01:10:52.770
You know, if I was speaking at an EMS conference,

01:10:53.069 --> 01:10:55.529
I was going to throw some darts at the medical

01:10:55.529 --> 01:10:57.710
director sitting in the back of the room, you

01:10:57.710 --> 01:11:00.050
know, like let's ruffle some feathers and, you

01:11:00.050 --> 01:11:04.409
know, prove me wrong, you know, but, uh, at a

01:11:04.409 --> 01:11:06.750
point, you know, I, I realized that I'm also

01:11:06.750 --> 01:11:10.430
representing Leanne, so I may have to put a plug

01:11:10.430 --> 01:11:14.689
in it. I can relate by the way. Yeah. But, um,

01:11:14.689 --> 01:11:17.430
yeah, yeah, yeah, you certainly can. But, uh,

01:11:18.189 --> 01:11:23.689
But also, you know, seeing, you know, through

01:11:23.689 --> 01:11:27.289
through these fields, you'll meet some of the

01:11:27.289 --> 01:11:30.409
best and some of the worst humans, you know,

01:11:30.409 --> 01:11:33.029
and I've found that everywhere I've worked. You

01:11:33.029 --> 01:11:34.909
know, you'll meet the best and worst people you've

01:11:34.909 --> 01:11:38.130
ever met in your life in the same place. And,

01:11:38.229 --> 01:11:43.409
you know, there there there can be a degree of

01:11:43.409 --> 01:11:46.609
toxicity in any culture. And there certainly

01:11:46.609 --> 01:11:49.560
is. some degree of toxicity in the air medical

01:11:49.560 --> 01:11:53.840
world. And, you know, I will speak to Leanne's

01:11:53.840 --> 01:11:55.479
experience here, you know, and I'm not speaking

01:11:55.479 --> 01:11:58.600
for her. It's her story to tell. But I had a

01:11:58.600 --> 01:12:02.199
seat at that table, and it affected me as well.

01:12:03.159 --> 01:12:07.939
So Leanne, I'll try to condense it to the short

01:12:07.939 --> 01:12:10.659
version. Leanne had a long and really successful

01:12:10.659 --> 01:12:13.579
career. And toward the end of it, she was offered

01:12:13.579 --> 01:12:16.680
a leadership position at a program that Not the

01:12:16.680 --> 01:12:19.119
program she worked for. So she left to start

01:12:19.119 --> 01:12:22.979
up an air medical program across the state. Went

01:12:22.979 --> 01:12:26.279
and stood that program up, was gone for three

01:12:26.279 --> 01:12:28.399
-ish years, and then came back to the original

01:12:28.399 --> 01:12:30.680
program that she had been working for at the

01:12:30.680 --> 01:12:34.039
time. But she came back to that program on a

01:12:34.039 --> 01:12:36.779
different team within the program. And it was

01:12:36.779 --> 01:12:39.340
a team that had a reputation for being a boys

01:12:39.340 --> 01:12:44.079
club and didn't want her there from before day

01:12:44.079 --> 01:12:48.479
one. that was made clear. So she really fought

01:12:48.479 --> 01:12:51.340
an uphill battle. She had been around, she's

01:12:51.340 --> 01:12:53.300
mature enough to know like, okay, I'm just weather

01:12:53.300 --> 01:12:55.359
storm, keep my head down, do the job and whatever.

01:12:55.819 --> 01:12:57.880
But she ultimately ended up getting bullied,

01:12:57.939 --> 01:13:01.619
you know, for for about two years, in a really

01:13:01.619 --> 01:13:04.859
ugly way. That was incredibly disappointing for

01:13:04.859 --> 01:13:09.960
me. And it was a real, a real difficult one for

01:13:09.960 --> 01:13:13.699
me to unpack and work through. Because you have

01:13:13.699 --> 01:13:17.079
these like conflicting interests right and conflicting

01:13:17.079 --> 01:13:20.659
things that you know layers of responsibility

01:13:20.659 --> 01:13:23.600
and also accountability right because they're

01:13:23.600 --> 01:13:27.779
on one on one level like we're i'm a dude you

01:13:27.779 --> 01:13:31.399
know and it's like no nobody's gonna bully my

01:13:31.399 --> 01:13:34.520
best friend and partner in life and wife like

01:13:34.520 --> 01:13:38.399
absolutely not at the same time professionally

01:13:38.399 --> 01:13:42.260
i can't just go you know dominant male monkey

01:13:42.260 --> 01:13:46.430
and start kicking doors down you know Um, and

01:13:46.430 --> 01:13:49.289
also, you know, it'd be incredibly disrespectful

01:13:49.289 --> 01:13:53.689
and belittling, you know, of me to, to trample

01:13:53.689 --> 01:13:56.710
her autonomy and assume that she needed me to

01:13:56.710 --> 01:14:00.350
come to her rescue. Right. Uh, especially when

01:14:00.350 --> 01:14:02.470
I know, you know, she's hell, she's a better

01:14:02.470 --> 01:14:04.489
clinician than I am. She'd been around longer

01:14:04.489 --> 01:14:07.250
than I have had a better reputation than I did.

01:14:07.670 --> 01:14:11.149
Um, you know, who am I, but I got to watch her,

01:14:11.189 --> 01:14:13.689
you know, work through that one. Um, I got to

01:14:13.689 --> 01:14:16.829
watch her show. incredible resilience, right?

01:14:16.909 --> 01:14:20.090
Like how she kind of kept a stiff lip and just

01:14:20.090 --> 01:14:22.550
kept going, going back to like, no, I'm not going

01:14:22.550 --> 01:14:24.470
to, you know, I'm not just going to fold and

01:14:24.470 --> 01:14:25.909
like, let them win. I'm going to just go keep

01:14:25.909 --> 01:14:31.189
doing my job and do it well. Um, which, uh, you

01:14:31.189 --> 01:14:34.390
know, I, I owe that side tangent for just a second.

01:14:35.149 --> 01:14:38.329
I learned so much about accountability, like

01:14:38.329 --> 01:14:41.590
self accountability to perform at your job from

01:14:41.590 --> 01:14:44.630
her. Like there's, I have not met a person that

01:14:44.630 --> 01:14:47.130
holds themselves to a higher standard than my

01:14:47.130 --> 01:14:49.270
wife Leanne does. And it's one of the things

01:14:49.270 --> 01:14:51.729
I fell in love with her about, or fell in love

01:14:51.729 --> 01:14:57.789
with her for, um, early on. But, uh, any who

01:14:57.789 --> 01:15:01.810
I saw physical changes, you know, I saw psychological

01:15:01.810 --> 01:15:04.949
changes, you know, I saw her affect change, you

01:15:04.949 --> 01:15:08.869
know, she was beat down and, and really left.

01:15:09.930 --> 01:15:13.130
you know, unsupported in a lot of ways. Um, and

01:15:13.130 --> 01:15:15.109
this is part of working for, you know, a huge

01:15:15.109 --> 01:15:18.130
organization, you know, help can be hard to find,

01:15:18.189 --> 01:15:20.890
uh, you know, and, and speaking to leadership,

01:15:20.970 --> 01:15:25.170
it can be hard to find a person of influence,

01:15:25.390 --> 01:15:27.770
you know, a person in a position to actually

01:15:27.770 --> 01:15:30.770
make a difference that's willing to stick their

01:15:30.770 --> 01:15:33.369
neck out and say, well, no, hold on guys, not,

01:15:33.510 --> 01:15:37.689
not kosher. This is not going to fly. Um, so,

01:15:37.789 --> 01:15:41.550
you know, It is kind of whimsical thought, you

01:15:41.550 --> 01:15:43.189
know, I don't really have any real landing point,

01:15:43.310 --> 01:15:45.670
but it's it's a part of my story. It's definitely

01:15:45.670 --> 01:15:47.670
a part of her story. And, you know, not to hyper

01:15:47.670 --> 01:15:50.149
focus on the negative aspects of the job, but

01:15:50.149 --> 01:15:53.569
the opportunity for that to happen is everywhere.

01:15:53.890 --> 01:15:56.369
And it's on each and every one of us to do our

01:15:56.369 --> 01:15:59.470
best to make sure that that you don't let that

01:15:59.470 --> 01:16:02.609
seed take root, you know, because that's this

01:16:02.609 --> 01:16:06.350
doesn't happen overnight. You know, a team doesn't

01:16:06.350 --> 01:16:10.199
go from positive, uplifting culture. To toxic

01:16:10.199 --> 01:16:13.500
dog eat dog, you know, stand on each other's

01:16:13.500 --> 01:16:15.920
heads to keep your own head above water overnight.

01:16:16.079 --> 01:16:18.739
It's insidious, right? So it takes a degree of

01:16:18.739 --> 01:16:22.439
just situational awareness, I guess. And again,

01:16:22.520 --> 01:16:25.720
the senior folks on a team to steer that ship

01:16:25.720 --> 01:16:28.859
in another direction. And that can be done. And

01:16:28.859 --> 01:16:31.500
I can speak to that through my leadership role

01:16:31.500 --> 01:16:34.560
within the flight program. So the flight program,

01:16:34.659 --> 01:16:37.920
I serve as a flight paramedic and I'm also the

01:16:37.920 --> 01:16:41.180
clinical base lead. So I'm responsible with no

01:16:41.180 --> 01:16:45.500
punitive authority for the goings on and operations

01:16:45.500 --> 01:16:50.119
of my base, the base my helicopter operates out

01:16:50.119 --> 01:16:54.840
of. When I took that role, I told Leanne that

01:16:54.840 --> 01:17:00.800
I was going to change the culture. I told her,

01:17:00.800 --> 01:17:03.539
I'll just say it. It's my team, so I can speak

01:17:03.539 --> 01:17:09.060
to it. My base had a reputation for drama. Right.

01:17:09.119 --> 01:17:11.859
For infighting, for caddy drama. Everybody is

01:17:11.859 --> 01:17:14.880
at each other's throats. Nobody was happy. So,

01:17:14.880 --> 01:17:16.600
dude, I'm going to turn around. It's going to

01:17:16.600 --> 01:17:19.880
take years, but I'm going to do it. And I'll

01:17:19.880 --> 01:17:22.260
call her out. Leon's like, no, you're not. I

01:17:22.260 --> 01:17:26.880
was like, watch me. And. I set out to do that

01:17:26.880 --> 01:17:29.659
and I paid attention. I think at the end of the

01:17:29.659 --> 01:17:31.640
day, the biggest thing is everybody just wants

01:17:31.640 --> 01:17:34.920
to be heard. When you have a team of performers

01:17:34.920 --> 01:17:38.680
that were all towards the top of wherever they

01:17:38.680 --> 01:17:41.779
came from, one, they want to be heard, and two,

01:17:41.859 --> 01:17:46.439
they need room to perform. To get hired on the

01:17:46.439 --> 01:17:50.640
flight team, there's a minimum required experience

01:17:50.640 --> 01:17:53.659
set you have to have. Credentials, certain jobs,

01:17:53.819 --> 01:17:56.270
a number of years. But that's like, that's the

01:17:56.270 --> 01:17:58.310
floor, right? Everybody has more than that. So

01:17:58.310 --> 01:18:00.670
everybody's experienced, everybody's performed.

01:18:01.729 --> 01:18:04.350
You've got to give us room to cook and room to

01:18:04.350 --> 01:18:07.850
work. So, and I knew that early, right? Cause

01:18:07.850 --> 01:18:09.510
I had the same frustration. It's like, dude,

01:18:09.569 --> 01:18:11.489
just give me a room. I know what I'm doing. Like,

01:18:11.529 --> 01:18:14.600
let me go. What's that? What's that movie? The

01:18:14.600 --> 01:18:16.779
other guys with Mark Wahlberg and Will Ferrell.

01:18:17.420 --> 01:18:19.159
There's that quote. He's like, I'm a peacock.

01:18:19.199 --> 01:18:22.180
You got to let me fly. You know, that's that's

01:18:22.180 --> 01:18:25.680
us. So early on, when I asked, this is another

01:18:25.680 --> 01:18:28.760
thing. I'm the only base lead in my program's

01:18:28.760 --> 01:18:33.319
history that asked to be base lead. Everybody

01:18:33.319 --> 01:18:36.100
else air quotes, you know, they were asked to

01:18:36.100 --> 01:18:38.710
do it. They, of course, didn't pursue that. But

01:18:38.710 --> 01:18:40.689
no, I did. I wanted the opportunity. So I asked

01:18:40.689 --> 01:18:43.409
for it. I shot my shot and they said yes. So

01:18:43.409 --> 01:18:46.670
early on, I worked to make sure everybody was

01:18:46.670 --> 01:18:49.109
heard and then just clear room, like clear space

01:18:49.109 --> 01:18:52.890
for everybody to work. And I did that. And also

01:18:52.890 --> 01:18:55.189
early on, and Leanne literally laughed at me

01:18:55.189 --> 01:18:58.569
when I told her this. And so I came up with three

01:18:58.569 --> 01:19:02.210
goals for myself. And I'll admit these are the

01:19:02.210 --> 01:19:04.529
cheesiest. This is this sounds like something

01:19:04.529 --> 01:19:06.449
out of the worst self -help book you've ever

01:19:06.449 --> 01:19:10.029
read. But my three goals are be of utility, protect

01:19:10.029 --> 01:19:13.369
our house and turn the frowns upside down. And,

01:19:13.470 --> 01:19:15.250
you know, the last one's a little tongue in cheek,

01:19:15.369 --> 01:19:18.189
but truly like show everyone it's OK to like

01:19:18.189 --> 01:19:21.090
enjoy work. Right. Like saying I like my job

01:19:21.090 --> 01:19:24.250
and I'm actually glad to be here. That's not

01:19:24.250 --> 01:19:27.029
uncool. Like, it's OK. It's cool to say that.

01:19:28.460 --> 01:19:31.460
So any who, what I'm speaking to here is if you

01:19:31.460 --> 01:19:33.180
have some awareness, if you have some humility,

01:19:33.319 --> 01:19:35.060
if you're willing to say, Hey guys, I screwed

01:19:35.060 --> 01:19:39.199
this up. My bad. When the team says, Hey, this

01:19:39.199 --> 01:19:42.159
thing is not working. This way we're doing something

01:19:42.159 --> 01:19:45.979
is not working. Don't be intimidated by a good

01:19:45.979 --> 01:19:48.819
idea coming from South of you, right? Have some

01:19:48.819 --> 01:19:51.500
humility. Know that that's not a threat to you

01:19:51.500 --> 01:19:55.149
as a leader. That's just a good idea from a team

01:19:55.149 --> 01:19:57.670
of ideally performers that probably have some

01:19:57.670 --> 01:20:01.270
good insights to contribute. Let them cook. And

01:20:01.270 --> 01:20:03.829
the culture has changed. Our team's clicking.

01:20:03.949 --> 01:20:07.810
We've been clicking for a while. We had a few

01:20:07.810 --> 01:20:10.710
key moments that I kind of latched onto, bad

01:20:10.710 --> 01:20:16.210
down periods. In 2021, we lost two of our team

01:20:16.210 --> 01:20:21.380
a week apart. Yeah. Joel and Daniela, um, Daniela

01:20:21.380 --> 01:20:25.560
passed away to cancer and, um, and Joel, uh,

01:20:25.659 --> 01:20:29.439
to a motorcycle accident that, um, they, they

01:20:29.439 --> 01:20:32.760
were partners. Um, Daniela died, Joel died a

01:20:32.760 --> 01:20:34.819
little over a week later and it was eight days.

01:20:35.420 --> 01:20:38.560
Um, and I know that what happened to Daniela,

01:20:38.560 --> 01:20:42.100
um, you know, I very least contributed to that

01:20:42.100 --> 01:20:46.979
accident happening. Um, but I, I latched on to

01:20:46.979 --> 01:20:49.420
that. We were all down. We're a small team, so

01:20:49.420 --> 01:20:53.720
we're tight. We're close. It hurt. Right. And

01:20:53.720 --> 01:20:58.640
the leadership at the time that's no longer around

01:20:58.640 --> 01:21:03.479
wasn't supportive of us. They weren't a presence

01:21:03.479 --> 01:21:07.640
through that. And there is one key moment. And

01:21:07.640 --> 01:21:10.220
again, not to go negative, but, you know, this

01:21:10.220 --> 01:21:17.699
happened and I'd like to speak to it. And our

01:21:17.699 --> 01:21:22.319
then boss was literally same time posting selfies

01:21:22.319 --> 01:21:26.859
of himself on vacation. And everybody that was

01:21:26.859 --> 01:21:28.939
at that funeral, they were passing phones around

01:21:28.939 --> 01:21:32.460
with these pictures during the funeral. So for

01:21:32.460 --> 01:21:35.380
me, you know, it's like, geez, what do I do with

01:21:35.380 --> 01:21:39.020
this? You know, you can't, I was like, yeah,

01:21:39.039 --> 01:21:42.159
it bothers me too, but you can't just dive deeper

01:21:42.159 --> 01:21:46.300
into a deeper, darker place. So I latched onto

01:21:46.300 --> 01:21:50.340
it and I created a shared enemy almost. I was

01:21:50.340 --> 01:21:54.979
like, hey guys, you're right. That's like ridiculous,

01:21:55.319 --> 01:21:59.600
ridiculously tone deaf and hurtful. But hey,

01:21:59.640 --> 01:22:02.380
guess what? It doesn't matter. That's something

01:22:02.380 --> 01:22:04.859
outside of this circle, right? What matters is

01:22:04.859 --> 01:22:07.039
right here. We're all here. And that's what matters.

01:22:07.100 --> 01:22:09.619
Everything outside this circle, everything outside

01:22:09.619 --> 01:22:12.949
these walls is something else. Right. That's

01:22:12.949 --> 01:22:16.250
not us. What's here matters. And then I just,

01:22:16.270 --> 01:22:19.130
you know, I opportunistically, I guess, and you

01:22:19.130 --> 01:22:22.470
probably pick apart the ethics of this, but I

01:22:22.470 --> 01:22:24.750
kept that theme going, you know, and it kept

01:22:24.750 --> 01:22:28.130
us tight. And, you know, it we are where we are

01:22:28.130 --> 01:22:31.609
now, I think, in large part because of those

01:22:31.609 --> 01:22:34.770
awful junctures, you know, losing two teammates,

01:22:35.050 --> 01:22:38.090
a team of eight people. You know, we lost two

01:22:38.090 --> 01:22:40.970
in a week, but something positive did come from

01:22:40.970 --> 01:22:47.029
it. And it's been lasting. What Leanne went through,

01:22:47.090 --> 01:22:48.569
I mean, I hear this from so many people, that

01:22:48.569 --> 01:22:51.390
toxic culture, that organizational betrayal can

01:22:51.390 --> 01:22:54.430
be so detrimental. And even, I don't know if

01:22:54.430 --> 01:22:57.210
this is what you were alluding to, but even some

01:22:57.210 --> 01:22:59.930
of these accidents that we have, you wonder,

01:23:00.050 --> 01:23:02.930
okay, was that an accident or was that technically

01:23:02.930 --> 01:23:06.909
one of the either sleep deprivation related things

01:23:06.909 --> 01:23:11.100
or even more deliberate than an accident? I had

01:23:11.100 --> 01:23:14.619
a similar thing in the last place I worked. We

01:23:14.619 --> 01:23:17.359
lost one of my classmates to an overdose and

01:23:17.359 --> 01:23:21.720
went to his funeral. We're coming back. I've

01:23:21.720 --> 01:23:23.600
told this story a few times on here, but it still

01:23:23.600 --> 01:23:26.359
makes my blood boil. We put the ladder truck

01:23:26.359 --> 01:23:28.579
up. His old department sent just one guy with

01:23:28.579 --> 01:23:31.079
the ladder truck, so we had to help him set everything

01:23:31.079 --> 01:23:33.439
up, put the flag up, wait for the last person

01:23:33.439 --> 01:23:36.520
to leave the funeral, and then help him break

01:23:36.520 --> 01:23:38.159
down everything as well. We got something to

01:23:38.159 --> 01:23:41.720
eat. And we're heading back. And I feel like

01:23:41.720 --> 01:23:43.159
this is kind of in line with what you're talking

01:23:43.159 --> 01:23:46.300
about with the vacation pictures. My lieutenant,

01:23:46.579 --> 01:23:49.420
there's four of us on this rig, gets a call saying,

01:23:49.539 --> 01:23:54.560
you need to apologize to everyone at this place

01:23:54.560 --> 01:23:56.819
because they've been running extra calls while

01:23:56.819 --> 01:24:00.840
you've been at the funeral. And so I'm just like,

01:24:00.939 --> 01:24:05.560
you know, dumbfounded. And I get back and get

01:24:05.560 --> 01:24:10.229
back to the station. And everyone's there. Everyone's

01:24:10.229 --> 01:24:12.250
in quarters. Everyone's in a Lazy Boy. And I'm

01:24:12.250 --> 01:24:14.829
just like fuming. I don't get angry very often.

01:24:15.949 --> 01:24:19.369
And I said, please tell me that what we heard

01:24:19.369 --> 01:24:23.170
was incorrect. Oh, no, but it was being really

01:24:23.170 --> 01:24:24.909
bad. I'm like, we just fucking buried one of

01:24:24.909 --> 01:24:28.109
our guys. And this is what you think is important?

01:24:28.590 --> 01:24:30.409
And it's the same thing. But I was on an island

01:24:30.409 --> 01:24:33.430
that day. And I got so angry, I basically said,

01:24:33.489 --> 01:24:35.600
I'm leaving. before I do something that's going

01:24:35.600 --> 01:24:38.079
to cost me my career. Because I was that fucking

01:24:38.079 --> 01:24:41.159
close to breaking jaws. Genuine. I'm not an aggressive

01:24:41.159 --> 01:24:44.619
person. I'm not beating my chest. I was so disgusted.

01:24:45.279 --> 01:24:49.439
But yeah, it's that same thing. And there's a

01:24:49.439 --> 01:24:51.520
circle within that that absolutely were there

01:24:51.520 --> 01:24:53.640
for him for the right reasons that went to the

01:24:53.640 --> 01:24:58.560
funeral. But you talk about moral injury. Nothing

01:24:58.560 --> 01:25:00.720
worse than being part of a group that's supposed

01:25:00.720 --> 01:25:03.239
to care. And you're presented with something

01:25:03.239 --> 01:25:05.060
like that. And that's when the switch flipped

01:25:05.060 --> 01:25:06.500
for me in that department. That's when I was

01:25:06.500 --> 01:25:07.979
the beginning of the end. I'm like, I cannot

01:25:07.979 --> 01:25:11.199
believe having come from great departments, you

01:25:11.199 --> 01:25:13.899
know, where one of the guys gets hurt and the

01:25:13.899 --> 01:25:16.979
rest of the crew will repair his roof that he'd

01:25:16.979 --> 01:25:18.359
been working on before he was hurt. You know

01:25:18.359 --> 01:25:20.039
what I mean? That kind of brotherhood and sisterhood.

01:25:20.699 --> 01:25:22.939
But yeah, so all you can do, like you said, is,

01:25:22.939 --> 01:25:25.880
you know, find your people and then make that

01:25:25.880 --> 01:25:29.310
circle even stronger. Yeah, absolutely. That's

01:25:29.310 --> 01:25:31.609
disappointing to hear, but, you know, unfortunately

01:25:31.609 --> 01:25:36.750
not, not terribly surprising. Yeah. You mentioned

01:25:36.750 --> 01:25:38.970
early on in the conversation about some of your

01:25:38.970 --> 01:25:41.569
low points as well. And we talk about mental

01:25:41.569 --> 01:25:44.250
health before we progress on, you know, what

01:25:44.250 --> 01:25:47.109
were the lowest points that you found in your

01:25:47.109 --> 01:25:49.229
career? And then what were the tools that you

01:25:49.229 --> 01:25:52.449
found to navigate out of that? Yeah. I like how

01:25:52.449 --> 01:25:54.029
you asked that question, right? Cause it's not

01:25:54.029 --> 01:25:56.729
just ruminate with me on your lowest points in

01:25:56.729 --> 01:26:01.989
life. Um, so I'll, uh, you know, I, I, a lot

01:26:01.989 --> 01:26:04.289
of this, I've never literally never shared with

01:26:04.289 --> 01:26:07.729
anyone before, uh, except, um, you know, possibly

01:26:07.729 --> 01:26:12.109
my, my counselor, uh, that I see. Um, So breaking

01:26:12.109 --> 01:26:15.470
news, folks, you're hearing it here first. So,

01:26:15.569 --> 01:26:18.510
no, I would say first, towards the end of my

01:26:18.510 --> 01:26:21.149
rescue career, I was pretty beat down. You know,

01:26:21.149 --> 01:26:24.390
now looking, you know, in hindsight, it's that

01:26:24.390 --> 01:26:26.789
insidious wear and tear, you know, shift work,

01:26:26.930 --> 01:26:31.989
the sleep, the unhealthy lifestyle, the zero

01:26:31.989 --> 01:26:34.850
regard for general wellness. You know, I thought

01:26:34.850 --> 01:26:37.369
I was a stud, right? I look good in a T -shirt.

01:26:41.239 --> 01:26:45.979
poorly and drank too much um didn't sleep well

01:26:45.979 --> 01:26:49.260
uh but uh there was that and then there's also

01:26:49.260 --> 01:26:54.079
the uh the the classic you know ems end of a

01:26:54.079 --> 01:26:57.279
of a marriage you know it's back then it was

01:26:57.279 --> 01:26:59.180
it was almost like a running joke it's like you're

01:26:59.180 --> 01:27:01.619
not a real ems guy until you get your first divorce

01:27:01.619 --> 01:27:05.140
um you know so i had a relationship that ended

01:27:05.140 --> 01:27:08.119
uh in a bad way you know in a very negative way

01:27:08.750 --> 01:27:10.489
And it was at a point in life where I really

01:27:10.489 --> 01:27:12.369
thought I was starting to figure things out.

01:27:12.510 --> 01:27:14.489
You know, again, white picket fence. I was like,

01:27:14.609 --> 01:27:17.010
dude, we got this thing figured out. Everything's

01:27:17.010 --> 01:27:19.350
perfect. I know where we're going. I'm getting

01:27:19.350 --> 01:27:21.270
mandatory all the time, but I need the money.

01:27:21.350 --> 01:27:25.010
So we got that covered. And, you know, and then

01:27:25.010 --> 01:27:27.850
that all changed. Right. And it left me in a

01:27:27.850 --> 01:27:30.130
place where everything went from perfect. And

01:27:30.130 --> 01:27:32.810
I was certain where I was going and what I was

01:27:32.810 --> 01:27:35.229
supposed to be doing to just being beat down

01:27:35.229 --> 01:27:38.880
and working 96 hours a week every week. you know,

01:27:38.880 --> 01:27:41.979
staying up all night, running calls, just wake

01:27:41.979 --> 01:27:43.819
up, rinse, repeat, and do it all over again.

01:27:44.460 --> 01:27:48.960
Um, I, I went to a dark place, you know, I didn't

01:27:48.960 --> 01:27:51.619
want that relationship to end, uh, certainly

01:27:51.619 --> 01:27:54.899
the way it did. Uh, but it did, um, you know,

01:27:54.899 --> 01:27:57.880
at a big house, it was empty with just me in

01:27:57.880 --> 01:28:00.739
it. Um, a lot of sleepless nights. I was, I was

01:28:00.739 --> 01:28:04.039
at a really, really dark place and I'll speak

01:28:04.039 --> 01:28:07.939
to how I came out of that. But I'll also speak

01:28:07.939 --> 01:28:11.340
to how I kind of like grinded out surviving through

01:28:11.340 --> 01:28:14.920
it, honestly. And this is the real piece I've

01:28:14.920 --> 01:28:17.939
never shared with anybody. But I was at the end

01:28:17.939 --> 01:28:20.319
of my rope, you know, and I was having those

01:28:20.319 --> 01:28:24.500
dark, bad thoughts. And, you know, I guess two

01:28:24.500 --> 01:28:29.439
things really kind of kept me from making a decision

01:28:29.439 --> 01:28:32.399
to do something that, you know, you can't come

01:28:32.399 --> 01:28:36.840
back from by design. One was... I would lay there

01:28:36.840 --> 01:28:39.920
not being able to sleep and I'd go, I'd just

01:28:39.920 --> 01:28:44.079
go work out. I had a 24, one of the 24 hour,

01:28:44.100 --> 01:28:48.159
you know, gym, uh, memberships two o 'clock in

01:28:48.159 --> 01:28:49.920
the morning. I'd just go get in the truck and

01:28:49.920 --> 01:28:52.800
go work out two in the morning. And I'd work

01:28:52.800 --> 01:28:54.939
out until I had to come home to get dressed,

01:28:54.939 --> 01:28:58.600
to go back to work. Um, and I do that. And then

01:28:58.600 --> 01:29:01.420
another thing, you know, if this man, you know,

01:29:01.439 --> 01:29:04.380
I don't know. I don't know if this is even appropriate

01:29:04.380 --> 01:29:07.720
to really like put out there. I definitely wouldn't

01:29:07.720 --> 01:29:09.720
use this as advice because it's not healthy,

01:29:09.779 --> 01:29:13.979
but I just kept deciding to do it tomorrow. You

01:29:13.979 --> 01:29:16.140
know, just like one more day, I'll do it tomorrow.

01:29:16.779 --> 01:29:20.220
You know, give it a night. And I just kept doing

01:29:20.220 --> 01:29:23.399
that, right? And then at a point, things changed

01:29:23.399 --> 01:29:25.539
and I did kind of climb back up my rope, you

01:29:25.539 --> 01:29:28.279
know, and climbed out of the hole. But, you know,

01:29:28.300 --> 01:29:31.140
I've never, she'll hear this now, but I've never

01:29:31.140 --> 01:29:35.170
told her this. Leanne saved my life. Like, and

01:29:35.170 --> 01:29:37.229
I don't mean that figuratively. I mean, I mean

01:29:37.229 --> 01:29:41.390
it literally. I was at a point when we met where,

01:29:41.489 --> 01:29:44.350
uh, you know, I decided I was like, man, this,

01:29:44.430 --> 01:29:47.390
this track I've chosen, like, I don't think this

01:29:47.390 --> 01:29:50.069
is for me. Like this didn't work out the way

01:29:50.069 --> 01:29:53.590
I thought it was going to. And, um, I was so

01:29:53.590 --> 01:29:56.750
just despondent and discouraged about like having

01:29:56.750 --> 01:29:59.439
to start over. that I was at a juncture where

01:29:59.439 --> 01:30:01.479
at a point I had decided, I'm either going to

01:30:01.479 --> 01:30:03.899
kill myself or I'm going to just go do contract

01:30:03.899 --> 01:30:07.779
work and just leave entirely and just go do something

01:30:07.779 --> 01:30:10.840
totally different. But this is my skill set.

01:30:11.039 --> 01:30:15.039
This is my credentialing. So a coworker and friend

01:30:15.039 --> 01:30:17.520
of mine, we were speaking to recruiters for contract

01:30:17.520 --> 01:30:20.520
agencies, and I was looking for somewhere as

01:30:20.520 --> 01:30:22.859
far away from here as I could get to just go

01:30:22.859 --> 01:30:25.220
do contract work and just leave, like facilitate

01:30:25.220 --> 01:30:28.399
me. leaving and going somewhere else, maybe it'll

01:30:28.399 --> 01:30:32.520
be better. Right. And then, um, you know, throughout,

01:30:32.579 --> 01:30:35.420
I did maintain some focus on like career progression.

01:30:35.500 --> 01:30:37.159
I was like, I got to get out of rescue. This

01:30:37.159 --> 01:30:39.859
is like just beating the piss out of me. Um,

01:30:39.920 --> 01:30:42.340
so I did get hired to the flight team, uh, which

01:30:42.340 --> 01:30:44.000
was a positive kind of helped pull me out of

01:30:44.000 --> 01:30:46.159
the hole. But then, you know, and I also had

01:30:46.159 --> 01:30:48.399
some really, really good friends along the way

01:30:48.399 --> 01:30:51.520
that like kept forcing me out of the house and

01:30:51.520 --> 01:30:55.770
like that, that presence was enough. you know,

01:30:55.770 --> 01:30:58.810
to kind of keep me going in a sense, you know,

01:30:58.810 --> 01:31:02.149
just do it tomorrow, you know? And, um, then

01:31:02.149 --> 01:31:06.010
Leanne slid into my DMS and you see her around,

01:31:06.029 --> 01:31:08.510
you can ask her, she'll confirm. She slid into

01:31:08.510 --> 01:31:11.739
my DMS, not the other way around. But she sent

01:31:11.739 --> 01:31:14.119
me a message, and we actually had a mutual friend

01:31:14.119 --> 01:31:16.640
play a matchmaker between us. It's pretty cool.

01:31:17.380 --> 01:31:20.859
I'm mentioning one by name, but he knows who

01:31:20.859 --> 01:31:22.760
he is. Leanne and I both know who he is. He was

01:31:22.760 --> 01:31:25.920
going to Leanne and telling Leanne that I had

01:31:25.920 --> 01:31:28.699
been asking about her, and then he was coming

01:31:28.699 --> 01:31:30.800
to me telling me that Leanne had been asking

01:31:30.800 --> 01:31:33.600
about me. And I think he saw where we both were

01:31:33.600 --> 01:31:36.819
in life and cared about us as humans and just

01:31:36.819 --> 01:31:41.079
wanted to see us happy and together. And that's

01:31:41.079 --> 01:31:44.859
what happened. And Leanne, she showed me so much

01:31:44.859 --> 01:31:49.979
almost immediately. She showed me the same world

01:31:49.979 --> 01:31:52.699
that I had been working and living in through

01:31:52.699 --> 01:31:57.520
a different lens. She was the first person I

01:31:57.520 --> 01:31:59.720
heard share a similar sentiment that I shared

01:31:59.720 --> 01:32:02.420
with you earlier. Like, dude, I hated this job.

01:32:02.750 --> 01:32:05.649
For like two years, because I was so worried

01:32:05.649 --> 01:32:08.050
and so eaten up with anxiety that I was going

01:32:08.050 --> 01:32:10.369
to, you know, self -imposed pressure to perform,

01:32:10.649 --> 01:32:13.229
you know, worry that I would be underprepared

01:32:13.229 --> 01:32:15.989
for a thing. And when soon as she said it out

01:32:15.989 --> 01:32:19.050
loud, I was like, me too, you know, but I never

01:32:19.050 --> 01:32:21.590
really had, I guess, the confidence or, you know,

01:32:21.590 --> 01:32:24.470
awareness enough to say that out loud to another

01:32:24.470 --> 01:32:27.850
human. And also she was the first person that,

01:32:27.850 --> 01:32:30.909
you know, really introduced the idea of off ramps.

01:32:31.279 --> 01:32:33.039
You know, she told me early on, she's like, Hey,

01:32:33.060 --> 01:32:35.260
I don't know what your plans are, but there's

01:32:35.260 --> 01:32:38.539
an expiration date on clinical work. I was like,

01:32:38.560 --> 01:32:40.859
I like that. I think I'm going to, I have one

01:32:40.859 --> 01:32:43.340
of those now too. You know, it's like, I'll figure

01:32:43.340 --> 01:32:45.760
out when it is, but I now have an expiration

01:32:45.760 --> 01:32:47.579
date on clinical work. I'm going to follow your

01:32:47.579 --> 01:32:49.539
lead there. And that's kind of been our story,

01:32:49.579 --> 01:32:52.340
man. I've largely followed Leanne's lead. And,

01:32:52.340 --> 01:32:55.699
uh, you know, we did in fact do that. You know,

01:32:55.720 --> 01:32:58.199
she, she was able to retire earlier than most.

01:32:58.680 --> 01:33:01.720
Um, you know, we put an expiration date on clinical

01:33:01.720 --> 01:33:04.220
work and then as we set goals and reached them,

01:33:04.239 --> 01:33:06.640
we ultimately, you know, put an expiration date

01:33:06.640 --> 01:33:10.340
on working for just other people in general,

01:33:10.439 --> 01:33:15.159
you know, and, and together, um, you know, alternating

01:33:15.159 --> 01:33:17.979
who leads just through various seasons of life.

01:33:18.119 --> 01:33:20.260
You know, we've, we've set goals, we've met them

01:33:20.260 --> 01:33:22.060
and, you know, we're, we're on a good track.

01:33:23.300 --> 01:33:25.260
Just going back to the dark place. Cause then

01:33:25.260 --> 01:33:26.479
we want to talk about what you guys are doing

01:33:26.479 --> 01:33:30.949
now. Um, I've said this on here many times. The

01:33:30.949 --> 01:33:34.970
old way that we discuss suicide was it's selfish,

01:33:35.189 --> 01:33:37.689
it's cowardly. How could they think of your family?

01:33:37.829 --> 01:33:40.750
And then now, as we sit here, I've spoken to

01:33:40.750 --> 01:33:43.569
over twelve hundred people, many of whom have

01:33:43.569 --> 01:33:47.010
got those those dark stories. And I started seeing

01:33:47.010 --> 01:33:48.989
the common denominator over and over and over

01:33:48.989 --> 01:33:53.220
again where. At that point, through the perfect

01:33:53.220 --> 01:33:55.640
storm of unaddressed childhood trauma, sleep

01:33:55.640 --> 01:33:58.279
deprivation and side effects of alcohol and meds

01:33:58.279 --> 01:34:01.479
and all the things that come together, that their

01:34:01.479 --> 01:34:04.079
brain had been miswired to the point that they

01:34:04.079 --> 01:34:07.600
truly believed that they were a burden and they

01:34:07.600 --> 01:34:09.300
were the reason that other people were hurting.

01:34:09.359 --> 01:34:10.939
And if they could, you know, if they just took

01:34:10.939 --> 01:34:13.979
themselves out. that that would solve the problem,

01:34:14.039 --> 01:34:15.699
that their family would be happy. Now, that makes

01:34:15.699 --> 01:34:18.640
no sense to a healthy mind, but to someone in

01:34:18.640 --> 01:34:22.100
that arguably psychosis by that point, it makes

01:34:22.100 --> 01:34:24.220
perfect sense. And if you frame it that way,

01:34:24.359 --> 01:34:28.600
the people that we've lost to suicide, it must

01:34:28.600 --> 01:34:30.500
have been terrifying for them. And it probably

01:34:30.500 --> 01:34:32.939
took courage because they believe that they were

01:34:32.939 --> 01:34:36.100
solving this problem by removing the cancer,

01:34:36.159 --> 01:34:39.579
which was themselves. did you have any of that

01:34:39.579 --> 01:34:41.220
kind of whispering in your head when you were

01:34:41.220 --> 01:34:43.680
in your darkest point? Yeah. So, you know, I've

01:34:43.680 --> 01:34:46.119
heard you speak to that concept before. Um, and

01:34:46.119 --> 01:34:47.680
it's really interesting. I thought a lot about

01:34:47.680 --> 01:34:50.880
it and it does make a lot of sense. Um, and it's,

01:34:50.880 --> 01:34:53.020
it's actually really sad, you know, to think

01:34:53.020 --> 01:34:56.319
about, but, um, you know, no, honestly I didn't.

01:34:56.399 --> 01:34:58.760
Um, you know, there's, there's a lot of self

01:34:58.760 --> 01:35:02.920
-loathing, you know, um, yeah I'd explore all

01:35:02.920 --> 01:35:05.340
the ways that I like deserve to be in this deep

01:35:05.340 --> 01:35:07.800
dark place you know and then I'd also have the

01:35:07.800 --> 01:35:11.460
why me what did I do to deserve this you know

01:35:11.460 --> 01:35:16.140
so it was a very much a roller coaster of you

01:35:16.140 --> 01:35:18.979
know thoughts and emotions and perspectives but

01:35:18.979 --> 01:35:22.239
ultimately when I guess to speak to you know

01:35:22.239 --> 01:35:26.479
when I was at my lowest it was mostly you know

01:35:26.479 --> 01:35:31.020
it was the overall The overall feeling, I guess,

01:35:31.039 --> 01:35:36.140
was just utter discouragement. Just utter discouragement.

01:35:36.340 --> 01:35:41.220
I had worked so hard from where I came from,

01:35:41.340 --> 01:35:45.520
working through the things I did, and setting

01:35:45.520 --> 01:35:49.520
goals and reaching them. We got this house, and

01:35:49.520 --> 01:35:52.500
there's this track. We've got it figured out.

01:35:52.560 --> 01:35:53.819
We know where we're going, and it's going to

01:35:53.819 --> 01:35:57.000
be so great. We're going to do it different than

01:35:57.000 --> 01:36:03.829
how I grew up. And then it gets really out of

01:36:03.829 --> 01:36:07.289
your control. But unplanned, unforecasted, that

01:36:07.289 --> 01:36:10.869
changes. And where do you go from there? And

01:36:10.869 --> 01:36:13.029
the thought of just changing course or starting

01:36:13.029 --> 01:36:18.289
over was just so... I don't know. I was at a

01:36:18.289 --> 01:36:22.470
place where I felt empty and listless and just

01:36:22.470 --> 01:36:25.829
didn't want to put that much effort in all over

01:36:25.829 --> 01:36:31.640
again. Again, 2 a .m. workouts are not healthy.

01:36:32.640 --> 01:36:37.180
But looking back, that's been the one consistent

01:36:37.180 --> 01:36:39.920
throughout my entire adult life that I've never

01:36:39.920 --> 01:36:43.279
stopped doing is exercising. And that is a touchstone.

01:36:43.500 --> 01:36:46.619
And it is a significant component of my current

01:36:46.619 --> 01:36:48.819
mental health, which is in a great place. So

01:36:48.819 --> 01:36:51.100
anyone that's down and out, dude, I've been there.

01:36:51.220 --> 01:36:56.140
I promise. Do it tomorrow. Don't do it. It gets

01:36:56.140 --> 01:36:59.420
better. I promise just grind it out, stick with

01:36:59.420 --> 01:37:02.619
it. And if you're, you know, like James is speaking

01:37:02.619 --> 01:37:06.460
to, you know, feeling like it's your fault and

01:37:06.460 --> 01:37:10.000
that your, your people will be better off without

01:37:10.000 --> 01:37:13.579
you. It's flat wrong. Okay. So fight those feelings.

01:37:13.960 --> 01:37:16.920
But, um, you know, even now, like I'm in a great

01:37:16.920 --> 01:37:19.180
headspace. I still speak with a counselor, um,

01:37:19.260 --> 01:37:22.199
you know, very much proponent of EMDR, very effective.

01:37:23.020 --> 01:37:24.920
Um, and I work out every single day. I sweat

01:37:24.920 --> 01:37:27.000
the demons out. Like anyone that knows me well

01:37:27.000 --> 01:37:28.539
has heard me say that you got to sweat the demons

01:37:28.539 --> 01:37:30.560
out. And, um, you know, that's tongue in cheek

01:37:30.560 --> 01:37:33.539
too, but there's some, some truth to it. And,

01:37:33.680 --> 01:37:35.819
uh, you know, again, speaking to Leanne, you

01:37:35.819 --> 01:37:38.920
know, all the things I've learned from her, you

01:37:38.920 --> 01:37:41.699
know, when I was at a point of like, just utter

01:37:41.699 --> 01:37:44.920
discouragement with having to start over, right.

01:37:45.020 --> 01:37:46.859
Like that's where my head was like, I'm gonna

01:37:46.859 --> 01:37:48.680
have to completely start over and do all this,

01:37:48.680 --> 01:37:50.920
you know, the last eight years, which is for

01:37:50.920 --> 01:37:53.140
not. You know, and I've got to do it all over

01:37:53.140 --> 01:37:57.220
again. You know, she basically and, you know,

01:37:57.220 --> 01:38:00.779
in ways said, no, like, let's just meet here

01:38:00.779 --> 01:38:02.960
and go forward together. And that's what we've

01:38:02.960 --> 01:38:06.439
done. And it's been incredible ever since. It's

01:38:06.439 --> 01:38:08.600
amazing to hear. And I think the thing with Iron

01:38:08.600 --> 01:38:11.380
Legion that we see as well is that you've got

01:38:11.380 --> 01:38:13.420
gyms, you know, and I think that's fantastic.

01:38:13.520 --> 01:38:15.340
You go in there, you put headphones on, you work

01:38:15.340 --> 01:38:19.699
out. Brilliant. But there are gyms like R1. That

01:38:19.699 --> 01:38:21.500
when you walk through, it's not just a workout,

01:38:21.560 --> 01:38:24.220
it's a community. And I think that really does

01:38:24.220 --> 01:38:27.979
just amplify the wellness element because not

01:38:27.979 --> 01:38:30.319
only are you still getting a workout, you're

01:38:30.319 --> 01:38:32.500
suffering side by side, you're making fun of

01:38:32.500 --> 01:38:38.939
each other. It's another entire tribe outside

01:38:38.939 --> 01:38:43.640
of fire, EMS, flight, whatever your unit is.

01:38:43.779 --> 01:38:46.359
So I would challenge people, don't just find

01:38:46.359 --> 01:38:48.939
a gym. Where you're just going to sit on a peck

01:38:48.939 --> 01:38:52.239
deck and do three sets of 12. Find a place, you

01:38:52.239 --> 01:38:54.039
know, that you can drop yourself in. That as

01:38:54.039 --> 01:38:56.359
soon as you walk through the door, you're kind

01:38:56.359 --> 01:38:58.859
of swept away with that community. And, you know,

01:38:58.859 --> 01:39:00.680
after your workout, you might sit there for half

01:39:00.680 --> 01:39:02.640
an hour talking to people. You know, I think

01:39:02.640 --> 01:39:05.930
there's so much value to that. Well, you mentioned

01:39:05.930 --> 01:39:09.529
about expiration dates. So one of the powerful

01:39:09.529 --> 01:39:12.149
conversations that comes out of, for example,

01:39:12.189 --> 01:39:14.829
a work week like 2472 is the ability to start

01:39:14.829 --> 01:39:18.029
building an entrepreneurial project on the side.

01:39:18.329 --> 01:39:21.590
So then you can make that transition. Talk to

01:39:21.590 --> 01:39:24.010
me about, you know, what made you even have this

01:39:24.010 --> 01:39:26.069
idea? And then let's talk about all the things

01:39:26.069 --> 01:39:29.789
that you offer. Sure. So I'll speak to the income

01:39:29.789 --> 01:39:31.670
artist, but if you don't mind, I will speak to

01:39:31.670 --> 01:39:34.829
the broader idea. Please. having an off -ramp

01:39:34.829 --> 01:39:38.810
from whatever your current career path is, if

01:39:38.810 --> 01:39:41.649
you want one, but just please, even if you don't

01:39:41.649 --> 01:39:44.109
currently want one, at least consider the thought

01:39:44.109 --> 01:39:48.890
and leave the door open in the future. Earlier

01:39:48.890 --> 01:39:52.090
in your career, you're going to love the job.

01:39:52.109 --> 01:39:54.510
You're going to be all in, both feet in, hot

01:39:54.510 --> 01:39:56.850
and heavy, whatever it is. I'm a firefighter.

01:39:56.850 --> 01:39:59.399
I'm a paramedic. I'm going to put it all over

01:39:59.399 --> 01:40:01.399
Instagram, and everybody's going to know, and

01:40:01.399 --> 01:40:03.399
my badge is going to be this big, right, in the

01:40:03.399 --> 01:40:07.060
center of my chest. You know, that does fade,

01:40:07.220 --> 01:40:11.119
and the job will wear on you. Even a 24 -72 schedule,

01:40:11.399 --> 01:40:14.979
as fantastic as it may be, it's a job. It's a

01:40:14.979 --> 01:40:17.460
difficult job. There's a lot of stressors, right?

01:40:18.460 --> 01:40:21.220
Shift work is a carcinogen. You know, you're

01:40:21.220 --> 01:40:29.060
the first person I heard speak to that. bottleneck

01:40:29.060 --> 01:40:31.739
yourself, right? Like leave your future open

01:40:31.739 --> 01:40:35.100
with, with options. So Leanne and I collectively

01:40:35.100 --> 01:40:38.100
decided like, Hey, we, we both love doing what

01:40:38.100 --> 01:40:39.699
we're doing. Right. And we're enjoying it. We're

01:40:39.699 --> 01:40:42.060
going to do it for a good long while, but we

01:40:42.060 --> 01:40:44.939
know at some point we're likely going to want

01:40:44.939 --> 01:40:48.699
to deviate, want to separate from that. And,

01:40:48.739 --> 01:40:52.340
you know, our health and wellbeing takes precedent

01:40:52.340 --> 01:40:57.039
over the career. Right. Um, so we started looking

01:40:57.039 --> 01:41:00.199
for ways to get off of, you know, we're looking

01:41:00.199 --> 01:41:03.479
for off ramps from the traditional find a career

01:41:03.479 --> 01:41:07.399
job, work 30 years, retire, hopefully by 65 and

01:41:07.399 --> 01:41:10.439
have enough, you know, vigor left in you to enjoy

01:41:10.439 --> 01:41:13.359
a few years before you're just flat elderly and

01:41:13.359 --> 01:41:18.869
loafing around. Um, so, you know, for us, we

01:41:18.869 --> 01:41:20.210
started putting thought in that and where that

01:41:20.210 --> 01:41:23.329
all started for us was, um, you know, we, I had

01:41:23.329 --> 01:41:25.670
sold my house and moved in with Leanne, you know,

01:41:25.670 --> 01:41:28.090
early in my relationship, she owned a duplex.

01:41:28.090 --> 01:41:30.529
We lived in one side and rented the other, you

01:41:30.529 --> 01:41:33.149
know, and it was magical. It was just her and

01:41:33.149 --> 01:41:35.710
I and our two cats and our little thousand square

01:41:35.710 --> 01:41:39.970
foot apartment and that paid for itself. And

01:41:39.970 --> 01:41:41.850
then we started looking for more like, OK, what

01:41:41.850 --> 01:41:44.090
are we going to do? Investment properties like

01:41:44.090 --> 01:41:46.350
we kind of already have it like let's just expand

01:41:46.350 --> 01:41:49.789
on that. So, you know, we saved up. We lived

01:41:49.789 --> 01:41:53.090
fiscally conservatively. We lived much more fiscally

01:41:53.090 --> 01:41:55.369
conservatively than we needed to for a really

01:41:55.369 --> 01:41:59.529
long time. And the reason for that wasn't it

01:41:59.529 --> 01:42:01.970
wasn't delayed gratification for the sake of

01:42:01.970 --> 01:42:04.170
delayed gratification, because there's a book

01:42:04.170 --> 01:42:06.550
that said there's merit to it. We were setting

01:42:06.550 --> 01:42:08.909
goals. you know, and we were achieving them.

01:42:09.069 --> 01:42:12.250
Um, and anyone listening to this podcast can

01:42:12.250 --> 01:42:14.850
do the same, you know, in the fire rescue service,

01:42:14.949 --> 01:42:17.369
like every other firefighter, it seems has a

01:42:17.369 --> 01:42:21.770
side, like lawn, lawn service business, or, you

01:42:21.770 --> 01:42:24.250
know, handyman service business or pressure washing

01:42:24.250 --> 01:42:28.029
or whatever, like, dude, get after it, but just

01:42:28.029 --> 01:42:30.630
don't just stop there, grow it, like put a little

01:42:30.630 --> 01:42:33.369
thought and information has never been easier

01:42:33.369 --> 01:42:36.579
to get. Download the free version of ChatGPT.

01:42:36.840 --> 01:42:40.479
Say, hey, I have a part -time lawn service business.

01:42:40.619 --> 01:42:43.880
Help me grow it. And you can do it. And next

01:42:43.880 --> 01:42:45.460
thing you know, maybe you'll have three or four

01:42:45.460 --> 01:42:47.479
or five or eight of your firefighter buddies

01:42:47.479 --> 01:42:52.600
all working for you. And you can go PRN and make

01:42:52.600 --> 01:42:54.979
more money and have more freedom and say over

01:42:54.979 --> 01:42:58.899
your own time. So we look for those off -ramps.

01:43:01.229 --> 01:43:03.329
I'll start. Would you like me to explain what

01:43:03.329 --> 01:43:06.350
we are and what we do? Yeah, absolutely. So we're

01:43:06.350 --> 01:43:11.670
a team of clinicians. Everyone on our team has

01:43:11.670 --> 01:43:13.590
a clinical background in some form or fashion.

01:43:13.989 --> 01:43:17.069
The team started with my teammate, Jake Bevilacqua,

01:43:17.189 --> 01:43:21.430
who's a CRNA. He's worked his entire adult life

01:43:21.430 --> 01:43:24.050
in clinical health care. He started as a first

01:43:24.050 --> 01:43:27.840
responder, volunteer. went to EMT paramedic school

01:43:27.840 --> 01:43:30.520
and then nursing school and ultimately became

01:43:30.520 --> 01:43:37.260
a CRNA. a series of events and some connections.

01:43:37.399 --> 01:43:39.920
His father had actually worked his entire adult

01:43:39.920 --> 01:43:44.100
life in financial advising and owned an insurance

01:43:44.100 --> 01:43:47.840
agency. So Jake found himself in a position where

01:43:47.840 --> 01:43:51.619
he needed insurance. He was going 1099, so doing

01:43:51.619 --> 01:43:54.260
contract work. And he reached out to his dad

01:43:54.260 --> 01:43:56.439
and said, hey, I need insurance. His dad said,

01:43:56.500 --> 01:43:58.060
I'll do you one better. I'll teach you how to

01:43:58.060 --> 01:44:01.140
sell it to yourself. So he empowered Jake with

01:44:01.140 --> 01:44:03.720
those tools. Jake started helping his colleagues,

01:44:03.939 --> 01:44:06.819
his coworkers, word of mouth spread. And then

01:44:06.819 --> 01:44:08.680
next thing you know, Jake had more people reaching

01:44:08.680 --> 01:44:11.800
out to him for insurance than he could sufficiently

01:44:11.800 --> 01:44:17.380
handle himself. So he looped me in. And this

01:44:17.380 --> 01:44:20.199
was real early in Jake and I's friendship, but

01:44:20.199 --> 01:44:23.579
we hit it off pretty fast. And he invited me.

01:44:24.090 --> 01:44:27.310
Um, at the time I took it as a job offer to sell

01:44:27.310 --> 01:44:30.590
insurance for him, which I had zero interest

01:44:30.590 --> 01:44:34.630
in. Like, dude, I have streams of income. We've

01:44:34.630 --> 01:44:36.789
carved out a pretty happy life. Like things are

01:44:36.789 --> 01:44:38.970
going good. I have no interest selling insurance.

01:44:39.529 --> 01:44:41.770
And, um, he told me, he's like, no, it's, it's

01:44:41.770 --> 01:44:43.510
a lot more than that. We're actually like serving

01:44:43.510 --> 01:44:45.729
our colleagues. Just, you know, hear me out.

01:44:46.189 --> 01:44:47.909
So we went and had lunch and I heard him out

01:44:47.909 --> 01:44:52.220
and I saw an opportunity. Um, to do just that,

01:44:52.260 --> 01:44:55.500
right? To be of utility, going back to my worst

01:44:55.500 --> 01:44:59.319
self -help book, three quotes ever, you know,

01:44:59.340 --> 01:45:02.060
be of utility to my people at a broader scale.

01:45:02.800 --> 01:45:05.779
And I thought highly enough of Jake and wanted

01:45:05.779 --> 01:45:07.220
to work with him enough. It's like, oh, let's

01:45:07.220 --> 01:45:10.000
give it a try. And, you know, so I started helping

01:45:10.000 --> 01:45:11.779
him out with what he was doing. And the next

01:45:11.779 --> 01:45:13.380
thing you know, it just kept growing and growing

01:45:13.380 --> 01:45:16.260
and growing to where we had more people reaching

01:45:16.260 --> 01:45:18.979
out to us for help. than Jake and John could

01:45:18.979 --> 01:45:21.779
handle. So we were kind of forced to grow a team

01:45:21.779 --> 01:45:25.340
around ourselves. And we've done just that. And

01:45:25.340 --> 01:45:28.420
at this point, we're a team of nine currently.

01:45:28.819 --> 01:45:31.539
We offer life and disability insurance, also

01:45:31.539 --> 01:45:35.159
long -term care insurance, financial planning,

01:45:35.300 --> 01:45:37.300
retirement account setups, and tax management.

01:45:37.939 --> 01:45:41.220
And we have referral pathways to a few other

01:45:41.220 --> 01:45:44.880
services. Our overarching goal is to protect

01:45:44.880 --> 01:45:48.520
and grow our colleagues' wealth. You know, and

01:45:48.520 --> 01:45:52.199
we do that by by serving as a resource for any

01:45:52.199 --> 01:45:56.600
of the services that I floated to you. All of

01:45:56.600 --> 01:46:00.760
our clients are either firefighters, EMTs, nurses,

01:46:01.020 --> 01:46:05.060
mostly CRNAs. It's everybody that's from, you

01:46:05.060 --> 01:46:07.260
know, cut from this cloth. These are our people

01:46:07.260 --> 01:46:09.819
and it's who we're looking to serve and protect.

01:46:10.760 --> 01:46:13.760
You know, and on this, I will speak to. You know,

01:46:13.800 --> 01:46:15.699
I definitely wouldn't call it a passion project,

01:46:15.899 --> 01:46:18.960
but it's it's a piece of this a piece of what

01:46:18.960 --> 01:46:21.159
we're doing that I am quite passionate about.

01:46:21.260 --> 01:46:24.159
And we spoke, I think, at a few points throughout

01:46:24.159 --> 01:46:27.880
our chat here today on, you know, certainly on

01:46:27.880 --> 01:46:30.140
suicide, which is firefighter death, cancer,

01:46:30.239 --> 01:46:34.340
overdoses. You know, my friend Joel and Daniela,

01:46:34.340 --> 01:46:39.539
you know, and, you know, it seems far too frequently.

01:46:40.119 --> 01:46:42.539
when I see someone close to me or in an overlapping

01:46:42.539 --> 01:46:46.260
circle, you know, within this world pass away,

01:46:46.340 --> 01:46:49.300
you know, a week later, you see a GoFundMe for

01:46:49.300 --> 01:46:52.579
the family because they're in distress. You know,

01:46:52.600 --> 01:46:55.859
they not only lost their, a family member, they

01:46:55.859 --> 01:46:58.359
lost a provider, right. And they're in trouble,

01:46:58.399 --> 01:47:02.579
you know, and a GoFundMe is not a financial plan

01:47:02.579 --> 01:47:04.939
and it's not a solution for a family that doesn't

01:47:04.939 --> 01:47:09.319
have an income anymore. Right. And, you know,

01:47:09.770 --> 01:47:13.890
It's something that's a risk that a family is

01:47:13.890 --> 01:47:17.449
exposed to that could be mitigated early and

01:47:17.449 --> 01:47:20.890
in a very inexpensive way. Right. And this goes

01:47:20.890 --> 01:47:24.250
back to training, right. Education, you know,

01:47:24.250 --> 01:47:26.810
the fire, the fire, fire colleges do a great

01:47:26.810 --> 01:47:29.069
job at teaching you how to put a fire out. Right.

01:47:29.130 --> 01:47:31.789
And not die while you're doing it. Paramedic

01:47:31.789 --> 01:47:33.810
school does a great job of teaching you how to

01:47:33.810 --> 01:47:37.590
treat sick people. What both of those don't do.

01:47:38.829 --> 01:47:41.409
Is educate you on how to live your life well

01:47:41.409 --> 01:47:45.149
in that profession, right? How to protect yourself

01:47:45.149 --> 01:47:48.470
and your family through that profession. And,

01:47:48.470 --> 01:47:52.470
you know, term life insurance, you know, a million

01:47:52.470 --> 01:47:55.210
dollar term life insurance policy when you're

01:47:55.210 --> 01:47:58.989
early 20s and before you have a super risky job

01:47:58.989 --> 01:48:03.010
like that of a firefighter, it's so cheap, like

01:48:03.010 --> 01:48:07.229
less than $50 a month. Right. And this is not

01:48:07.229 --> 01:48:10.270
an attempt to, you know, solicit your audience

01:48:10.270 --> 01:48:13.409
at all. You know, certainly I'm happy to answer

01:48:13.409 --> 01:48:16.470
any questions, be a resource for education. Yeah,

01:48:16.569 --> 01:48:19.369
we sell these things, but I could care less if

01:48:19.369 --> 01:48:22.909
you buy anything from me or not. Just know that

01:48:22.909 --> 01:48:26.270
your family is vulnerable if replacement for

01:48:26.270 --> 01:48:30.590
your income is not there. Right. And, you know,

01:48:30.590 --> 01:48:32.170
to all the schools out there, to all the people

01:48:32.170 --> 01:48:35.359
that are influential in training, you know, Touch

01:48:35.359 --> 01:48:37.960
on the mental health aspect of the job, you know,

01:48:37.979 --> 01:48:41.060
like to touch on what James spoke to, you know,

01:48:41.060 --> 01:48:43.319
you're not, every code is going to be saying

01:48:43.319 --> 01:48:46.199
not every mega code is going to result in a return

01:48:46.199 --> 01:48:49.279
of spontaneous circulation. Most of them are,

01:48:49.319 --> 01:48:52.220
you know, speak to that, speak to the nuance,

01:48:52.300 --> 01:48:55.560
the gray area around the job, like, Hey, you

01:48:55.560 --> 01:48:57.460
know, this shift work's going to affect your

01:48:57.460 --> 01:49:00.439
future family. You know, your future family is

01:49:00.439 --> 01:49:02.920
going to be incredibly vulnerable to the loss

01:49:02.920 --> 01:49:06.159
of you and your income. You know, mitigate that.

01:49:06.220 --> 01:49:09.340
Think about it. You know, protection for your

01:49:09.340 --> 01:49:11.760
income, even if you don't die. You know, know

01:49:11.760 --> 01:49:14.579
what benefits your department or your hospital

01:49:14.579 --> 01:49:17.539
or whomever you work for offer. And what will

01:49:17.539 --> 01:49:19.800
it look like if you lose your ability to work?

01:49:20.000 --> 01:49:23.180
You know, and that's one of the big voids we're

01:49:23.180 --> 01:49:25.140
trying to fill. You know, we're trying to get

01:49:25.140 --> 01:49:27.850
in with schools just to give education. You know,

01:49:27.850 --> 01:49:30.109
not soliciting, just educating them like, hey,

01:49:30.149 --> 01:49:32.989
here's some blind spots that I wish I'd have

01:49:32.989 --> 01:49:35.890
known about 15 years ago when it was affordable.

01:49:36.170 --> 01:49:39.449
You know, but nobody told me until I grew up.

01:49:39.710 --> 01:49:43.630
So unfortunately, we met a lot of resistance,

01:49:43.989 --> 01:49:45.710
you know, getting through the door with schools.

01:49:46.149 --> 01:49:48.250
And I understand that, you know, what they see

01:49:48.250 --> 01:49:52.270
from the outside is, you know, an insurance agency

01:49:52.270 --> 01:49:55.149
trying to sell insurance to their students when

01:49:55.149 --> 01:49:57.439
it really couldn't be. You know, that couldn't

01:49:57.439 --> 01:50:00.659
be farther from the truth. But yeah, that's who

01:50:00.659 --> 01:50:03.479
we are. That's the need we're really trying to

01:50:03.479 --> 01:50:07.479
solve. You know, the problem we're trying to

01:50:07.479 --> 01:50:09.319
solve. And, you know, we're trying to do it for

01:50:09.319 --> 01:50:13.300
our people exclusively. You mentioned about this

01:50:13.300 --> 01:50:15.239
being a conversation even before you go in the

01:50:15.239 --> 01:50:17.619
fire service. Are you able to lock in a certain

01:50:17.619 --> 01:50:19.539
rate then that makes it more affordable that

01:50:19.539 --> 01:50:23.939
people get in early? Yes. So two things affect.

01:50:24.880 --> 01:50:27.100
One overarching thing affects how much insurance

01:50:27.100 --> 01:50:29.000
is going to cost for you, right? And that's how

01:50:29.000 --> 01:50:33.539
much risk you pose to an insurance company. So

01:50:33.539 --> 01:50:37.060
the older you are, the less healthy you are,

01:50:37.100 --> 01:50:39.239
the more medical history you have, the more risky

01:50:39.239 --> 01:50:42.340
you are to insure. Because at the end of the

01:50:42.340 --> 01:50:44.659
day, that's what insurance is. You're paying

01:50:44.659 --> 01:50:48.180
to transfer risk from yourself and or your family

01:50:48.180 --> 01:50:51.119
to an insurance company. They're willing to assume

01:50:51.119 --> 01:50:53.859
that risk and they charge you money for it. Um,

01:50:53.960 --> 01:50:56.220
that's what it boils down to. So anything about

01:50:56.220 --> 01:50:58.859
you that would make you more risky to ensure

01:50:58.859 --> 01:51:02.039
is going to make it cost more. So age, medical

01:51:02.039 --> 01:51:05.979
history, we spoke to those also working as a

01:51:05.979 --> 01:51:10.659
firefighter or a police officer or even a nurse,

01:51:10.699 --> 01:51:13.859
right? That nursing is hard. I saw it with my

01:51:13.859 --> 01:51:16.380
mom. I saw what it did to my mom's body after

01:51:16.380 --> 01:51:18.819
40 something years. And the insurance companies

01:51:18.819 --> 01:51:20.680
know that. So they're going to charge you more

01:51:20.680 --> 01:51:24.229
as a flight paramedic. if I were going to buy,

01:51:24.229 --> 01:51:27.350
you know, a new long life insurance policy right

01:51:27.350 --> 01:51:31.850
now, it would like, I'm 39 years old, healthy,

01:51:31.970 --> 01:51:35.609
just my job alone. It's going to be borderline

01:51:35.609 --> 01:51:39.630
unaffordable. Right. Um, now we have options.

01:51:39.750 --> 01:51:41.850
We have different channels we can work through.

01:51:41.890 --> 01:51:44.470
Like we will find a solution for everybody, but

01:51:44.470 --> 01:51:47.069
man, if someone had put a bug in my ear before

01:51:47.069 --> 01:51:50.770
I started flying, right. If someone at the flight

01:51:50.770 --> 01:51:53.359
team had told me like, Hey, before you start,

01:51:53.460 --> 01:51:57.159
you may want to consider this. Because as soon

01:51:57.159 --> 01:51:59.920
as you put this patch on and you now fly as a

01:51:59.920 --> 01:52:03.880
part of an air crew, the entire insurance outlay

01:52:03.880 --> 01:52:08.000
is entirely different for you. That would have

01:52:08.000 --> 01:52:11.119
helped a lot. So we're trying to do that for

01:52:11.119 --> 01:52:14.220
others. If nothing else for cost and anticipation

01:52:14.220 --> 01:52:19.880
of future needs. But also, we're happy to educate.

01:52:20.180 --> 01:52:22.609
And that's all we're trying to do. You know,

01:52:22.609 --> 01:52:25.590
is is get the good word out there, educate people

01:52:25.590 --> 01:52:29.489
and help folks avoid the mistakes and the blind

01:52:29.489 --> 01:52:34.149
spots that we had for so long. So if you get

01:52:34.149 --> 01:52:36.210
a policy prior to the fire, even though you're

01:52:36.210 --> 01:52:38.350
joining a profession that's arguably more dangerous,

01:52:38.510 --> 01:52:43.289
your rate stays the same. Yes. So with life insurance

01:52:43.289 --> 01:52:46.630
specifically, like in almost every case, there

01:52:46.630 --> 01:52:48.770
are exceptions to everything, but most policies.

01:52:49.790 --> 01:52:51.970
you're guaranteed a certain amount of coverage

01:52:51.970 --> 01:52:54.449
at a certain price for a certain period of time.

01:52:55.470 --> 01:52:57.390
That's how it works, and that's why you're incentivized

01:52:57.390 --> 01:53:00.250
to get it while you're young and healthy. Yeah,

01:53:00.270 --> 01:53:02.010
it would be good for me. I'm a martial artist,

01:53:02.109 --> 01:53:05.409
stuntman, and firefighter. Probably uninsurable

01:53:05.409 --> 01:53:08.470
when I was in my 40s. You'd raise a few eyebrows.

01:53:09.390 --> 01:53:11.840
For sure. All right. Well, I want to go to some

01:53:11.840 --> 01:53:14.699
closing questions. Be mindful of your time. The

01:53:14.699 --> 01:53:17.279
first one I love to ask, is there a book or other

01:53:17.279 --> 01:53:19.720
books that you love to recommend? It can be related

01:53:19.720 --> 01:53:21.979
to our discussion today or completely unrelated.

01:53:22.659 --> 01:53:27.819
Sure. So I'm not. I'm sure you get a lot of nonfiction.

01:53:28.520 --> 01:53:33.239
I'm not doing that. The Thrawn series. So I'm

01:53:33.239 --> 01:53:36.760
a Star Wars nerd. So the Thrawn series of Star

01:53:36.760 --> 01:53:40.369
Wars books. And The Wheel of Time series by,

01:53:40.449 --> 01:53:42.550
I don't remember the author's name, but it's

01:53:42.550 --> 01:53:44.590
like 14 books long. It's incredibly long, but

01:53:44.590 --> 01:53:47.149
it's worth it. Brilliant. I haven't had that

01:53:47.149 --> 01:53:50.810
one recommended before. What about films, television,

01:53:50.869 --> 01:53:53.550
documentaries? Oh, that's a really good question.

01:53:54.170 --> 01:53:57.229
Icarus was good. Oh, great film. Yeah, Icarus

01:53:57.229 --> 01:54:03.050
was really, really good. The Last Dance was good.

01:54:04.829 --> 01:54:07.050
Let's see if I can think of something enriching.

01:54:09.019 --> 01:54:11.399
If you haven't watched Game of Thrones, read

01:54:11.399 --> 01:54:16.359
the books first, please. No, I'd stick with those

01:54:16.359 --> 01:54:19.960
two for documentaries. Brilliant. Next question.

01:54:20.100 --> 01:54:22.060
Is there a person that you recommend to come

01:54:22.060 --> 01:54:25.260
on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first

01:54:25.260 --> 01:54:27.579
responders, military, and associated professions

01:54:27.579 --> 01:54:30.579
of the world? There's one, but I haven't spoken

01:54:30.579 --> 01:54:32.579
with him, so I don't want to float his name yet.

01:54:33.159 --> 01:54:35.600
I think I've mentioned him to you in the past.

01:54:35.680 --> 01:54:37.500
I'm going to talk to him. I think he'd be a really

01:54:37.500 --> 01:54:43.050
good fit. it's a um third generation first responder

01:54:43.050 --> 01:54:50.760
with um So my friend, former co -worker, he mentored

01:54:50.760 --> 01:54:54.039
me early in my career. His dad worked for the

01:54:54.039 --> 01:54:56.399
sheriff's department and his son is now a legacy

01:54:56.399 --> 01:54:59.380
firefighter at the fire service that he just

01:54:59.380 --> 01:55:01.739
retired for. So I think he's got a really cool

01:55:01.739 --> 01:55:07.279
perspective. He's of a generation that I think

01:55:07.279 --> 01:55:11.560
saw a lot of change. He's a generation or two

01:55:11.560 --> 01:55:17.100
before me. So he saw change. from like the legit

01:55:17.100 --> 01:55:20.100
old days of of doing you know the old way of

01:55:20.100 --> 01:55:23.859
doing things to you know present or he just retired

01:55:23.859 --> 01:55:26.939
within the last like three years so i think that'd

01:55:26.939 --> 01:55:29.840
be a cool chat i have a question for you too

01:55:29.840 --> 01:55:32.850
yeah go for it if you don't mind no So I've always

01:55:32.850 --> 01:55:36.090
wondered, I know you worked as a stuntman out

01:55:36.090 --> 01:55:38.489
in California. You've worked for the fire service.

01:55:38.569 --> 01:55:40.649
We know that. You know, martial arts, exercise,

01:55:40.789 --> 01:55:44.310
all these things. And we know that you, we being

01:55:44.310 --> 01:55:46.470
your audience, right? Because I do listen to

01:55:46.470 --> 01:55:49.649
your show. We know you also grew up on a farm

01:55:49.649 --> 01:55:52.890
in England and your dad was a large animal vet.

01:55:53.270 --> 01:55:55.949
What the hell happened in between? How did you

01:55:55.949 --> 01:56:01.520
go from rural UK? Son of a large animal vet,

01:56:01.699 --> 01:56:04.579
Hollywood stuntman. Well, I mean, when I did

01:56:04.579 --> 01:56:07.220
the stunts, it was live shows. So it wasn't Hollywood

01:56:07.220 --> 01:56:09.079
2, the actual vicinity, but it was Universal

01:56:09.079 --> 01:56:11.819
Studios, the theme park. So I want to clarify

01:56:11.819 --> 01:56:14.359
that. I didn't do films because you couldn't

01:56:14.359 --> 01:56:16.159
as a firefighter. You just don't have the time

01:56:16.159 --> 01:56:21.319
to do that. But origin story, when I was in secondary

01:56:21.319 --> 01:56:24.560
school, so like 11 to 16, every year you had

01:56:24.560 --> 01:56:27.979
the annual. physical the medical and uh they

01:56:27.979 --> 01:56:32.319
showed me the color vision book um and it's funny

01:56:32.319 --> 01:56:34.060
because my wife's an optometrist now i've asked

01:56:34.060 --> 01:56:35.840
her about this at the time they were like if

01:56:35.840 --> 01:56:38.300
you can't see the numbers then you're colorblind

01:56:38.300 --> 01:56:42.100
that was it black and white so now looking back

01:56:42.100 --> 01:56:44.020
it's like basically saying if you're not 2020

01:56:44.020 --> 01:56:47.029
then you're stevie wonder When obviously there

01:56:47.029 --> 01:56:49.789
is all these degrees in between. But at the time,

01:56:49.810 --> 01:56:52.810
it was a disqualifying factor. So in this medical

01:56:52.810 --> 01:56:54.729
that I had, they told me, right, you can't be

01:56:54.729 --> 01:56:56.390
a pilot. You can't be a firefighter. And they

01:56:56.390 --> 01:56:58.369
just listed all the things that I dreamt of becoming

01:56:58.369 --> 01:57:01.989
and just took them off the table. So for years,

01:57:02.229 --> 01:57:04.510
when I reflect back now, I just fumbled around.

01:57:04.810 --> 01:57:07.470
Because imagine not realizing that you actually

01:57:07.470 --> 01:57:09.470
know what you want as a young boy. And then someone

01:57:09.470 --> 01:57:11.229
tells you, you know, wearing a white coat and

01:57:11.229 --> 01:57:13.550
a stethoscope, you can't do that. You're kind

01:57:13.550 --> 01:57:16.949
of lost. And I wanted to be a doctor, but I just

01:57:16.949 --> 01:57:19.930
didn't have what I learned. I didn't have the

01:57:19.930 --> 01:57:23.609
desire to be a sit behind the desk and write

01:57:23.609 --> 01:57:26.069
prescriptions doctor anyway, but I didn't have

01:57:26.069 --> 01:57:28.170
the academic smarts. I just didn't, you know,

01:57:28.170 --> 01:57:29.550
for the math. I didn't have the determination

01:57:29.550 --> 01:57:32.550
to get past that like my wife did. I mean, she,

01:57:32.670 --> 01:57:36.090
you know, she overcame so much to get where she

01:57:36.090 --> 01:57:38.229
is now. She was not a natural student at all.

01:57:39.210 --> 01:57:42.029
So life took me in this bizarre path where I

01:57:42.029 --> 01:57:43.970
was fumbling around and I was a bit of a fuck

01:57:43.970 --> 01:57:47.029
up. And, you know, I lifeguarded and I found

01:57:47.029 --> 01:57:50.130
myself working on summer camps in America. And

01:57:50.130 --> 01:57:54.090
that ultimately led me to travel the world with

01:57:54.090 --> 01:57:56.689
my girlfriend from there. And then when I'm traveling,

01:57:56.909 --> 01:58:01.550
I'm in Australia. Oh, and I went to, let me backtrack.

01:58:01.789 --> 01:58:04.229
So I fall in love with this girl, English girl

01:58:04.229 --> 01:58:07.430
I met in this American summer camp. Go back to

01:58:07.430 --> 01:58:11.130
London. I'm in university. She's in Wales in

01:58:11.130 --> 01:58:13.390
this drama school and she's doing the sets and

01:58:13.390 --> 01:58:16.529
the costumes. She's behind the scenes. And so

01:58:16.529 --> 01:58:18.789
after a year on a whim, I'm like, well, I'm just

01:58:18.789 --> 01:58:20.970
going to try and get into drama school. And I'm

01:58:20.970 --> 01:58:24.029
an awful actor, but somehow I think I was just

01:58:24.029 --> 01:58:25.890
different. I was a martial artist and I threw

01:58:25.890 --> 01:58:28.250
some kicks in the monologue and all that stuff.

01:58:28.350 --> 01:58:33.270
And I got in. Mind -blowing, I got in. do this

01:58:33.270 --> 01:58:35.890
just one year course in in acting and within

01:58:35.890 --> 01:58:38.390
that there was a stage combat course i was awful

01:58:38.390 --> 01:58:40.310
at acting but very good at sword work and all

01:58:40.310 --> 01:58:42.949
that kind of thing then we decided to travel

01:58:42.949 --> 01:58:45.189
the world get to australia universal studios

01:58:45.189 --> 01:58:48.329
is opening a park in japan and on a whim again

01:58:48.329 --> 01:58:50.329
this is the one takeaway from my life if the

01:58:50.329 --> 01:58:52.630
door opens fucking walk through it what's the

01:58:52.630 --> 01:58:54.369
worst that can happen you get offered something

01:58:54.369 --> 01:58:55.909
you say i'd actually i don't want it but thank

01:58:55.909 --> 01:58:59.569
you um yeah so i got the job worked in japan

01:58:59.569 --> 01:59:04.310
doing stunts for 15 months, met my son's mother,

01:59:04.449 --> 01:59:08.449
who's an American performer over there. And then

01:59:08.449 --> 01:59:10.890
that's what brought me to the US. And then when

01:59:10.890 --> 01:59:13.149
I literally, I've told the story on here before,

01:59:13.229 --> 01:59:16.390
about a week before we flew over, we went to

01:59:16.390 --> 01:59:18.710
England for six months to get my visa. And then

01:59:18.710 --> 01:59:21.829
we came over here. There was a issue of muscle

01:59:21.829 --> 01:59:24.069
and fitness and there was a Miami Dade firefighter

01:59:24.069 --> 01:59:26.510
in it. And we're talking, God, 25 years ago now.

01:59:26.729 --> 01:59:29.430
And I was reading about what they do here. And

01:59:29.430 --> 01:59:31.710
it wasn't just the fire. It was just paramedic

01:59:31.710 --> 01:59:34.569
thing too and everything just came together there

01:59:34.569 --> 01:59:36.609
was the fire there was the doctor thing I didn't

01:59:36.609 --> 01:59:39.369
realize was supposed to be a medic and then where

01:59:39.369 --> 01:59:42.970
we moved it was I don't know three miles from

01:59:42.970 --> 01:59:45.689
Central Florida Fire Academy in Orlando and so

01:59:45.689 --> 01:59:47.909
everything just came together shortly after 9

01:59:47.909 --> 01:59:51.729
-11 yeah and so that was the beginning of this

01:59:51.729 --> 01:59:54.670
and then having that stunt background I then

01:59:54.670 --> 01:59:56.710
worked for Universal in Orlando then we moved

01:59:56.710 --> 01:59:59.029
to LA for a few years and I worked over there

01:59:59.029 --> 02:00:02.020
in that Universal Came back here and I just,

02:00:02.100 --> 02:00:04.720
up until two years ago, did the Jason Bourne

02:00:04.720 --> 02:00:08.260
stunt show in Orlando. So that's how all these

02:00:08.260 --> 02:00:12.239
kind of fingers, you know, intersect. But yeah,

02:00:12.539 --> 02:00:14.680
I mean, honestly, and even moving departments,

02:00:14.760 --> 02:00:17.060
like going back to exactly what you said, hey,

02:00:17.199 --> 02:00:19.220
if you're not happy or it's not the right fit

02:00:19.220 --> 02:00:21.460
or your family needs to be somewhere else and

02:00:21.460 --> 02:00:23.800
you put your family first, which I always did,

02:00:23.939 --> 02:00:27.479
then just make it happen. You know, walk through

02:00:27.479 --> 02:00:30.109
that door. You know, there are... thousands of

02:00:30.109 --> 02:00:32.289
fire departments across america so to your point

02:00:32.289 --> 02:00:36.289
circling around be where you need to be find

02:00:36.289 --> 02:00:38.550
that tribe find that place that you're happy

02:00:38.550 --> 02:00:40.810
you know because anaheim you know i always hold

02:00:40.810 --> 02:00:43.649
that on the pedestal in california that was my

02:00:43.649 --> 02:00:45.949
place and i literally was talking to my captain

02:00:45.949 --> 02:00:50.470
two days ago and i left there in 2008 and they

02:00:50.470 --> 02:00:52.590
were at my wedding and my best man i'm a groomsman

02:00:52.590 --> 02:00:55.970
and you know what i mean so so yeah but life's

02:00:55.970 --> 02:00:58.529
too short to just be stuck in a fire department

02:00:58.529 --> 02:01:02.270
for 25 years with a countdown on your app, you

02:01:02.270 --> 02:01:05.569
know, 10 years into it, miserable, you know,

02:01:05.569 --> 02:01:07.569
just, there's so many exciting things out there

02:01:07.569 --> 02:01:09.390
to do. And then that obviously led to podcasts

02:01:09.390 --> 02:01:12.350
and books and now television shows, hopefully.

02:01:12.550 --> 02:01:15.569
So long -winded answer to your question, but

02:01:15.569 --> 02:01:17.850
that's, that's the missing bit in between. No,

02:01:17.930 --> 02:01:20.149
I love it. And thank you. Uh, thank you for sharing

02:01:20.149 --> 02:01:22.329
that. Right. Cause again, you know, I listen,

02:01:22.430 --> 02:01:24.409
I'm sure somebody else said the same question,

02:01:24.470 --> 02:01:27.039
like connect those two dots, you know, rural

02:01:27.039 --> 02:01:31.939
large animal british farm to uh you know stuntman

02:01:31.939 --> 02:01:34.159
the firefighter and the like and so that's also

02:01:34.159 --> 02:01:36.680
funny so in the uk they you know you had something

02:01:36.680 --> 02:01:38.899
less than 2020 vision they said nope you can't

02:01:38.899 --> 02:01:42.060
do it you asked they just they just asked if

02:01:42.060 --> 02:01:45.479
you could see probably yeah if the answer to

02:01:45.479 --> 02:01:47.800
that's yes you know it's not how many fingers

02:01:47.800 --> 02:01:49.859
are you holding up but say am i holding up fingers

02:01:49.859 --> 02:01:52.640
yeah go Yeah, it was the chart. But what was

02:01:52.640 --> 02:01:55.319
funny is when I read this magazine and I go to

02:01:55.319 --> 02:01:57.399
this fire academy and I listen to the orientation

02:01:57.399 --> 02:02:01.979
and I'm like, I'm just going to ask him to, you

02:02:01.979 --> 02:02:04.739
know, ask me to name a color of anything in the

02:02:04.739 --> 02:02:06.819
room. Like, this is stupid. I can see colors.

02:02:07.020 --> 02:02:10.159
And that was all it took was to question, you

02:02:10.159 --> 02:02:12.899
know, the tests that they do and ask, does it

02:02:12.899 --> 02:02:17.199
make sense? Does a 2448 make sense? No, we know

02:02:17.199 --> 02:02:19.460
it doesn't because our profession is crumbling.

02:02:20.140 --> 02:02:22.220
You know, there's so many things. Does backboarding

02:02:22.220 --> 02:02:25.300
make sense? No, it doesn't. We watch them sliding

02:02:25.300 --> 02:02:26.920
all over the place while their head's strapped

02:02:26.920 --> 02:02:29.699
to a, you know, a head collar. No, it's making

02:02:29.699 --> 02:02:32.779
it work. You know, does using water on a car

02:02:32.779 --> 02:02:35.340
fire make sense when everything is class B? No,

02:02:35.420 --> 02:02:37.800
it doesn't as well. So there's, you know, you

02:02:37.800 --> 02:02:40.159
take a step back and then it's really good to

02:02:40.159 --> 02:02:41.859
question things. And then you say, well, then.

02:02:42.800 --> 02:02:44.819
What can I do to get around that barrier if that's

02:02:44.819 --> 02:02:46.760
what I got to do? And I've got friends that are

02:02:46.760 --> 02:02:49.760
amputees that are, you know, working in police

02:02:49.760 --> 02:02:51.939
still. Lost his leg after a car hit him on a

02:02:51.939 --> 02:02:55.439
wreck. And now he's back, you know, with prosthesis,

02:02:55.460 --> 02:02:58.800
you know. So yeah, so it is interesting. But

02:02:58.800 --> 02:03:01.500
yeah, you just sometimes you got to take a step

02:03:01.500 --> 02:03:03.720
back, ask does it make sense? And then if it

02:03:03.720 --> 02:03:06.659
doesn't, then what do you need to do differently?

02:03:07.069 --> 02:03:09.350
You know, if you want to get from A to B bad

02:03:09.350 --> 02:03:11.170
enough, you'll find a way or you'll find someone

02:03:11.170 --> 02:03:12.970
else who's done it already that you can learn

02:03:12.970 --> 02:03:16.890
from. Yeah, you're speaking my language now.

02:03:18.909 --> 02:03:22.590
All right. Well, going back to you again, let's

02:03:22.590 --> 02:03:23.989
put the microphones back the way they're supposed

02:03:23.989 --> 02:03:27.229
to. The last question before we make sure everyone

02:03:27.229 --> 02:03:29.590
knows where to find you, where to find the encomologists,

02:03:29.970 --> 02:03:33.529
what do you do to decompress? Great question.

02:03:33.810 --> 02:03:37.960
So I do a number of things. One, yeah this may

02:03:37.960 --> 02:03:41.960
seem odd but my morning routine my my morning

02:03:41.960 --> 02:03:45.600
routine is a touch point i'm robotic about it

02:03:45.600 --> 02:03:50.159
at 4 a .m every day i get up i have coffee my

02:03:50.159 --> 02:03:52.939
first cup of coffee i walk outside and just greet

02:03:52.939 --> 02:03:55.659
nature right and that may sound hippy dippy woo

02:03:55.659 --> 02:03:58.260
woo not at all 10 years ago i'd have been making

02:03:58.260 --> 02:04:01.100
fun of myself but i go outside and i ground even

02:04:01.100 --> 02:04:03.300
if it's cold even if it's just for a minute with

02:04:03.300 --> 02:04:07.350
bare feet yep Um, there's something to it. Uh,

02:04:07.470 --> 02:04:09.409
if nothing else, it's a part of my routine now.

02:04:09.489 --> 02:04:12.029
So it's, it's staying, but my morning routine

02:04:12.029 --> 02:04:15.810
starting my day, right. It helps keep my day

02:04:15.810 --> 02:04:18.069
from, you know, you spoke to decompressing helps

02:04:18.069 --> 02:04:22.329
keep my day from compressing, right. Uh, anything

02:04:22.329 --> 02:04:25.850
outdoors, um, Leanne and I, anything outside

02:04:25.850 --> 02:04:29.130
we're in, you know, fit, we fish often, you know,

02:04:29.130 --> 02:04:31.409
fortunate enough, we've saved up for a really

02:04:31.409 --> 02:04:33.939
long time, bought a boat. We use that often.

02:04:34.399 --> 02:04:37.760
Nature walks, nature trails. If it's outside,

02:04:37.960 --> 02:04:41.180
then it's relaxing and decompressing for me.

02:04:41.520 --> 02:04:47.819
And exercise. I mean, when I miss time in the

02:04:47.819 --> 02:04:50.060
gym consistently, right? Like life gets busy.

02:04:50.119 --> 02:04:51.859
Sometimes you get pulled away from it and you

02:04:51.859 --> 02:04:54.880
just can't make time. You know, I notice changes

02:04:54.880 --> 02:04:57.340
in myself. You know, I get irritable. I don't

02:04:57.340 --> 02:05:00.479
sleep well. you know, I'm not kind, you know,

02:05:00.479 --> 02:05:03.460
at least in my head, you know, like driving around

02:05:03.460 --> 02:05:06.220
in traffic or whatever. But, um, but yeah, so

02:05:06.220 --> 02:05:07.939
I would say those are probably the three biggest

02:05:07.939 --> 02:05:09.520
things, you know, holding true to my morning

02:05:09.520 --> 02:05:13.220
routine, making time with Leanne outdoors, doing

02:05:13.220 --> 02:05:17.579
something and, um, and, and making sure to keep

02:05:17.579 --> 02:05:21.619
myself healthy. Love it. Well, for people listening.

02:05:22.350 --> 02:05:24.350
If they want to learn more about you, reach out

02:05:24.350 --> 02:05:26.350
to you. Where are the best places online for

02:05:26.350 --> 02:05:29.850
you and or the Incomologists? Sure. So social

02:05:29.850 --> 02:05:32.350
media is probably the quickest, easiest. I'm

02:05:32.350 --> 02:05:35.869
John East, J -O -H -N, last name East, like the

02:05:35.869 --> 02:05:38.550
direction. I'm on all the social medias. I'm

02:05:38.550 --> 02:05:40.090
friends with James, so you can probably just

02:05:40.090 --> 02:05:42.590
go find me in his friends list. The Incomologists,

02:05:42.710 --> 02:05:45.390
we have a presence on Facebook, Instagram, and

02:05:45.390 --> 02:05:50.039
LinkedIn. The underscore Incomologists. I N C

02:05:50.039 --> 02:05:55.739
O M O L O G I S T S, which is oddly difficult

02:05:55.739 --> 02:05:58.899
to recite off memory. Also the incomeologist

02:05:58.899 --> 02:06:02.680
.com. You can find all of our contact information

02:06:02.680 --> 02:06:04.739
there, or just feel free to reach out to me direct.

02:06:04.819 --> 02:06:07.100
If you have a question about anything I talked

02:06:07.100 --> 02:06:09.720
about, you know, it doesn't have to be related

02:06:09.720 --> 02:06:12.720
to our business. I'm always happy to chat, always

02:06:12.720 --> 02:06:15.119
happy to make new friends. So hit me up, give

02:06:15.119 --> 02:06:16.920
a like and share or whatever, whatever you're

02:06:16.920 --> 02:06:20.369
supposed to say. Well, I want to thank you so

02:06:20.369 --> 02:06:22.590
much. It's been an amazing conversation. We've

02:06:22.590 --> 02:06:25.310
gone all over the place from the technical operations

02:06:25.310 --> 02:06:27.970
side all the way through to some of the emotional

02:06:27.970 --> 02:06:31.310
highs and lows. So I want to thank you so, so

02:06:31.310 --> 02:06:33.489
much for being so generous with your time and

02:06:33.489 --> 02:06:35.329
coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

02:06:35.489 --> 02:06:37.130
Thank you for having me. Flattered.