WEBVTT

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This episode is brought to you by Thorne, the

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industry leader in nutritional solutions. Now,

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Most of you listening come from profession where

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it can take its toll physically and mentally.

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even more about Thorne, go to episode 323 of

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Behind the Shield podcast. And you will hear

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my interview with Wes Barnett and Joel Totoro

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from Thorne. This episode is sponsored by 5 .11,

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a company that I've used for well over a decade

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and continue to use to this day. And 5 .11 is

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I want to highlight a couple of products that,

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again, I personally use today. One of the most

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impressive products they just released is their

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whether you're taking training courses, we have

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to fly, we have to drive, we have to take trains.

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also a spot for a weapon. So they've thought

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of multiple, multiple things that a man or woman

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addition to all of the products that I talk about

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a lot. Their uniforms fit for men or fit for

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have a vest, why not have one that protects me

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their products, then listen to episode 338 of

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the Behind the Shield podcast with the CEO and

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founder, Francisco Morales. Welcome to the Behind

00:04:15.139 --> 00:04:16.939
the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James

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Gearing, and this week it is my absolute honor

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to welcome on the show Chad Robichaux and Azizullah

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Aziz. Now, Chad is a former law enforcement officer,

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but spent most of his career as a Marine, ultimately

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working in a unique specialty role within Marine

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Recon. Once in Afghanistan, he was assigned Aziz

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as his interpreter. And as you will hear, they

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served eight deployments together before Chad

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transitioned out and ultimately Aziz's interpreter

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program was closed down. Fast forward a few years

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and we have the mass evacuation. Chad assembled

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some incredible members of the military as written

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in his latest book, Saving Aziz. So we discuss

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a host of topics from their two individual journeys

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through their childhoods, the powerful story

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of how their lines intersected, the incredible

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danger our allies are in once we withdrew from

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Afghanistan, and so much more. Now, before we

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get to this incredible conversation, as I say

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every week, please just take a moment, go to

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whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe

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to the show, leave feedback, and leave a rating.

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Every single five -star rating truly does elevate

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this podcast, therefore making it more visible

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for others to find. And this is a free library

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of well over 700 episodes now. So all I ask in

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return is that you help share these incredible

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men and women's stories so I can get them to

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every single person on planet Earth who needs

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to hear them. So with that being said, I introduce

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to you Chad Robichaux and Azizullah Aziz. Enjoy.

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Well, Chad and Aziz, I want to start by saying,

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firstly, I'm extremely excited to read the book

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when it comes out. And secondly, thank you so

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much for coming on the Behind the Shield podcast

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today. Thanks for having us on. We're excited

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to talk about the book and our life together,

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our story. So thank you. Brilliant. Well, I'll

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start with you, Aziz. Where on planet Earth are

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we finding you today? Today, you can find me

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in Texas, Houston, Magnolia. Fantastic. And then,

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Chad, what about yourself? Same here. I'm just

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down the street from Aziz. I think looking at

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the video, Aziz is in our office right now, our

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Mighty Oaks Foundation office where he's working.

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And I'm in my home office right down the road

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in Texas. Fantastic. Well, I would love to walk

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you both through the beginning of your journey.

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So I'm sure people can tell from Aziz's accent,

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he's not a native Texan. So we'll start with

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you. So Aziz, tell me where you were born and

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tell me a little bit about your family dynamic,

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what your parents did. And how many siblings?

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Okay. My name is Azizullah. Everyone calls me

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Aziz from the childhood. And I'm okay with that.

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I was born in Kabul, Afghanistan in 1983. And

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I have six brothers and three sisters. My father

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was a Mujahideen battalion commander. He fought

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the Russians when the Russians invaded Afghanistan.

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And after that, once the Russians left, he did

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his own business, the car sales business. And

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on my journey, I actually self -taught myself

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how to speak English, how to learn English. And

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then as I was learning it, the kids noticed in

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the neighborhood and they asked me to teach them.

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And by doing that, I continuously... taught about

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800 students. It was back in 1996 to 1999. And

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around 800 students graduated. At that time,

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it was the first black era of Taliban in Kabul,

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Afghanistan. As I was teaching English, it was

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one of the evenings. This group of the Taliban

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that comes by the businesses and close the businesses

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and push the people to go to the mosque for prayers.

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That evening, I didn't go to the mosque and I

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was just continuing with my lessons and they

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caught me. They tried to put me in the jail.

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I was very young and I was boxing at that time

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and strong. And I punched this Taliban guy on

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his face and I jumped from the first floor and

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ran away to the neighbor's house, not knowing

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that this neighbor's house is also a Taliban's

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house. This lady. She saw me. She's like, hey,

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are you teacher Aziz? I'm like, yes, ma 'am.

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I'm teacher Aziz. I'm running away from the Taliban.

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They are behind me. Please give me safety here.

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She's like, OK, go to this bathroom. Don't worry

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about them. My husband is also Taliban. I'm like,

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damn, oh God, I didn't want this. She gave me

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a refugee for a couple hours in her bathroom.

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The Taliban were outside. They were calling on

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loudspeaker. They tried to capture me. But the

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good thing was at that time, once you take refugee,

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between the females, they were not coming over

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there. So they left. They intended to come back

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tomorrow. But that night I went home and I talked

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to my parents. Luckily, at the end of the street

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that we lived in Kabul at that time, there was

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this human trafficking guy. He already had 39

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Afghan young people with him for the purpose

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of leaving tomorrow, like tomorrow morning to

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Dubai. So my father told me, why shouldn't you

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join them and just go? Because there's no more.

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living opportunity here for you. Just go and

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find your dream and, you know, live your life

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because it's not possible. So I joined this human

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trafficking guy. We went to Pakistan, from Pakistan

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to Iran, from Iran to Oman, and then finally

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ended up in Dubai. And in Dubai, I started working

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for a Christian family of the house boy. And,

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you know, until that time when the 9 -11 happened.

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Then I told everything to this Dubai immigration

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officer. At that time, I explained everything

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to them that this is how I came and I wanted

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to go back home and I needed their help to send

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me back home. But then they became really interested

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in me because all those years that they were

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looking at how all these immigrants without the

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documents coming to their country, they did not

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know which routes they are taking, how they are

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coming. So I kind of gave them the whole information.

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They were interested to hire me over there. But

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then when I noticed they wanted to use me against

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the poor people who just came to their country

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to find a piece of bread and, you know, do their

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regular life. And I didn't like the idea. I told

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them, first, send me home. I want to go home.

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I need to get married, see my family, then get

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a passport, send me the visa. I will come back

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and join you guys. As soon as they sent me to

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Afghanistan, I came to Kabul military training

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center where the third special forces of the

00:11:52.649 --> 00:11:55.570
U .S. military was there. They were building

00:11:55.570 --> 00:11:58.950
the military compound for preparing to train

00:11:58.950 --> 00:12:02.450
the Afghan National Army. And I took a test over

00:12:02.450 --> 00:12:05.590
there. Most of this test was inclusive of all

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military terminologies. And I passed. Among a

00:12:09.590 --> 00:12:13.289
few hundred volunteers, I was the third guy who

00:12:13.289 --> 00:12:17.070
passed the test. And they hired me as an interpreter

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and worked for them for one year from 2002 to

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2003. And then I was promoted and introduced

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to the U .S. Embassy, the Regional Security Office.

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They had this project. It was called ATA, the

00:12:35.529 --> 00:12:39.580
Anti -Terrorism Assistance. They hired me as

00:12:39.580 --> 00:12:43.539
a chief interpreter over there, and I ended up

00:12:43.539 --> 00:12:46.700
working for them another year from 2003 to 2004.

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Then, according to my abilities, and, you know,

00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:55.159
they saw something in me, they promoted me to

00:12:55.159 --> 00:12:58.299
this other project, the JSOC Spatial Operation,

00:12:58.700 --> 00:13:09.299
where I met Chad over there in 2004. When I met

00:13:09.299 --> 00:13:12.360
Chad, it was one of the mornings over there that

00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:15.539
I came from the house to the office. I saw Chad.

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I really liked him, you know, very well disciplined,

00:13:19.419 --> 00:13:24.759
sharp and all athletic and sportsman. And as

00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:29.759
we all know that he's a recon Marine, you know,

00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:33.639
every time he likes to do this recon and, you

00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:36.970
know, before. uh going anywhere he likes to kind

00:13:36.970 --> 00:13:39.389
of do the observation and find out what's happening

00:13:39.389 --> 00:13:43.509
find all those weak spots and we traveled to

00:13:43.509 --> 00:13:46.649
our different properties and compounds and warehouses

00:13:46.649 --> 00:13:51.269
he identified some points that the enemy could

00:13:51.269 --> 00:13:55.370
easily use and attack our employees so he took

00:13:55.370 --> 00:13:58.669
some notes with me together and then you know

00:13:58.669 --> 00:14:01.990
he prepared some plans for improvement of construction

00:14:02.730 --> 00:14:06.429
at the walls like the constantine wire like extension

00:14:06.429 --> 00:14:09.269
of the wall so that the enemy should not be able

00:14:09.269 --> 00:14:11.529
to climb on the wall in the middle of the night

00:14:11.529 --> 00:14:15.690
and easily target our employees and then we became

00:14:15.690 --> 00:14:19.429
friends i invited him to my house and he met

00:14:19.429 --> 00:14:22.889
my wife and my kids and i noticed that he really

00:14:22.889 --> 00:14:26.110
likes the afghan food my wife i asked my wife

00:14:26.110 --> 00:14:29.750
to cook him some afghan food like kabli palau

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it's a mixture of rice beef and some seeds and

00:14:34.580 --> 00:14:39.600
stuff with the natural oil and You know, we work

00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:45.539
together all the way up to 2007 in many different

00:14:45.539 --> 00:14:51.340
missions risky operations between all Afghanistan

00:14:51.340 --> 00:14:56.980
and most of Pakistan and then Chad was moved

00:14:56.980 --> 00:15:03.330
into a different project from there But I continued

00:15:03.330 --> 00:15:07.129
doing the same thing all the way up to 2016.

00:15:08.210 --> 00:15:12.409
And meanwhile, you know, Chad and I, we were

00:15:12.409 --> 00:15:15.610
trying, he was also trying to help me with my

00:15:15.610 --> 00:15:20.149
SIV application to help me. And we have been

00:15:20.149 --> 00:15:26.289
trying to process my SIV application, the patient

00:15:26.289 --> 00:15:29.320
immigrant visa. so I could come here to the United

00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:34.059
States but unfortunately because I worked or

00:15:34.059 --> 00:15:37.179
I served under a classified contract in Afghanistan,

00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:42.039
the USCIS did not process my documents. They

00:15:42.039 --> 00:15:46.860
were regularly asking for a contract number which

00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:49.600
was not possible for me to provide for them because

00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:53.159
the version is classified and nobody can have

00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:56.590
access to that one. And then I had to stay in

00:15:56.590 --> 00:15:59.730
Afghanistan, and continuously do my work, and

00:15:59.730 --> 00:16:03.570
you know, he tried here a lot, I tried over here,

00:16:03.769 --> 00:16:08.610
but not knowing God's plan. It was God's plan

00:16:08.610 --> 00:16:11.889
that postponed it all, my SIV application, and

00:16:11.889 --> 00:16:17.190
I stayed up to the very last minute, which you

00:16:17.190 --> 00:16:20.779
know, was ... It happened side by side with the

00:16:20.779 --> 00:16:23.940
withdrawal of the U .S. troops from Afghanistan

00:16:23.940 --> 00:16:30.440
in August 2021. So that was the time when Chad

00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:36.000
really put a team together with other colleagues

00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:39.159
that I worked with, and they all put their own

00:16:39.159 --> 00:16:42.559
life at risk, and they came to Afghanistan to

00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:47.970
rescue me and my family. And finally, we are

00:16:47.970 --> 00:16:51.429
here. Brilliant. Well, I mean, I'm looking forward

00:16:51.429 --> 00:16:53.590
to hearing kind of more details of that. But

00:16:53.590 --> 00:16:56.450
I want to go back to your early life, if you

00:16:56.450 --> 00:16:58.570
wouldn't mind. After the Mushahideen had defeated

00:16:58.570 --> 00:17:01.850
the Russians, before the Taliban really grabbed

00:17:01.850 --> 00:17:05.470
your city in that case, I think a lot of people

00:17:05.470 --> 00:17:07.430
in the West have an impression of Afghanistan

00:17:07.430 --> 00:17:10.990
as this war -torn, concrete jungle, as it were.

00:17:11.490 --> 00:17:14.039
Talk to me about... Afghanistan when you were

00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:16.279
a young boy, before the Taliban really started

00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:21.319
getting hold? It was actually, when I remember,

00:17:21.420 --> 00:17:24.480
it was the communist regime that the Mujahideens

00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:27.700
were fighting, the communist regime, especially

00:17:27.700 --> 00:17:32.819
the Russian army, to liberate Afghanistan from

00:17:32.819 --> 00:17:37.819
them. And I was very young and I went to school.

00:17:39.849 --> 00:17:43.569
My daily life consists of playing in the Russian

00:17:43.569 --> 00:17:48.230
leftovers like tanks, jeeps, and the Volgas.

00:17:49.069 --> 00:17:51.690
uh with a bunch of kids from the neighborhood

00:17:51.690 --> 00:17:54.210
you know we would just go there on our free time

00:17:54.210 --> 00:17:57.049
and we would play on the russian tanks and take

00:17:57.049 --> 00:18:00.230
off some of the parts like bearings like they

00:18:00.230 --> 00:18:03.849
had these um behind the killers which uh you

00:18:03.849 --> 00:18:06.430
see from the bottom you you know it shows from

00:18:06.430 --> 00:18:09.450
the app we would open those and then sell them

00:18:09.450 --> 00:18:13.150
and buy some stuff from the grocery for ourselves

00:18:13.150 --> 00:18:18.750
and as i was doing that there was a say in afghanistan

00:18:18.750 --> 00:18:22.369
that there is a big project that's coming from

00:18:22.369 --> 00:18:25.730
turkmenistan to afghanistan from afghanistan

00:18:25.730 --> 00:18:29.410
to pakistan iran and india it's connecting the

00:18:29.410 --> 00:18:34.029
region it's a natural gas pipeline and whoever

00:18:34.029 --> 00:18:37.609
is able to speak english they will hire them

00:18:37.609 --> 00:18:40.990
and give them a decent amount of salary so as

00:18:40.990 --> 00:18:45.490
i was noticing my family's economical situation

00:18:45.490 --> 00:18:50.549
was not very good And I was comparing and contrasting

00:18:50.549 --> 00:18:54.609
because all my parents, they were dependent on

00:18:54.609 --> 00:18:58.890
my grandfather. My grandfather owned farmhouses

00:18:58.890 --> 00:19:02.730
like the grape gardens, peaches and these kind

00:19:02.730 --> 00:19:04.890
of things. He had laborers working for them.

00:19:04.970 --> 00:19:07.549
You know, he would harvest all those things and

00:19:07.549 --> 00:19:10.609
spend the money on his sons, like my uncles,

00:19:10.849 --> 00:19:16.019
my aunts. With their children, we all lived in

00:19:16.019 --> 00:19:20.880
one house that belonged to the grandfather, my

00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:24.740
father's father. So it was more of a dependency,

00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:28.799
and I was really annoyed by that one, and I wanted

00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:33.240
a better future. I wanted more facilities, more

00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:36.759
economical resources for my family, so I decided

00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:40.339
that I have to... I pushed myself and I have

00:19:40.339 --> 00:19:43.880
to study this language and doesn't matter how

00:19:43.880 --> 00:19:48.559
long it takes and how difficult it is, I have

00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.619
to do it. I started it, I give myself challenges,

00:19:52.819 --> 00:19:57.069
I went to these stationeries. in Kabul and I

00:19:57.069 --> 00:20:00.390
found these books that are called the self -learning

00:20:00.390 --> 00:20:04.710
English. It has like the English word and then

00:20:04.710 --> 00:20:07.490
it has the pronunciation on my own native language

00:20:07.490 --> 00:20:10.210
in the bottom of it so I can pronounce it and

00:20:10.210 --> 00:20:12.430
then it has another line for the meaning of it.

00:20:12.589 --> 00:20:16.250
So it had all the things that I needed. Kabul

00:20:16.250 --> 00:20:19.150
was at that time, actually there were several

00:20:19.150 --> 00:20:24.549
wars at that time. I was the witness of the A

00:20:24.549 --> 00:20:27.250
lot of killings of lots of children in Kabul,

00:20:27.390 --> 00:20:31.230
on the streets of Kabul, landmines. I saw my

00:20:31.230 --> 00:20:35.950
childhood friends that they stepped on the landmines

00:20:35.950 --> 00:20:39.089
and I saw them that they lost their legs and

00:20:39.089 --> 00:20:41.970
their hands and they were all full of blood.

00:20:42.089 --> 00:20:44.809
And a few of them, I saw them, they lost their

00:20:44.809 --> 00:20:48.009
lives. Like today we are playing in the playground

00:20:48.009 --> 00:20:50.960
and the next day when I go to their house. to

00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:53.519
call him to come and play and then you know i

00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:56.099
saw everyone in their family their relatives

00:20:56.099 --> 00:20:59.500
their sisters and my parents they are crying

00:20:59.500 --> 00:21:04.319
on him so that was those were really tough and

00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:07.460
broken heartbroken situations for me in my life

00:21:07.460 --> 00:21:10.799
but still i did not lose hope i was continuously

00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:14.140
learning and learning especially the english

00:21:14.140 --> 00:21:16.660
language at that time in afghanistan there was

00:21:16.660 --> 00:21:20.490
no electricity there was no internet There was

00:21:20.490 --> 00:21:24.910
no cell phone. There was no computer. Even in

00:21:24.910 --> 00:21:28.650
the Afghan presidential palace, you could not

00:21:28.650 --> 00:21:31.750
find one computer, one desktop or, you know,

00:21:31.789 --> 00:21:34.970
those IBM International business machines at

00:21:34.970 --> 00:21:38.910
that time they had. But when people needed to

00:21:38.910 --> 00:21:41.890
call somebody, for example, people had friends

00:21:41.890 --> 00:21:44.930
and relatives in Europe and U .S., they would

00:21:44.930 --> 00:21:48.009
go all the way from Afghanistan into Pakistan.

00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:52.460
and use toriah foods in Pakistan and pay for

00:21:52.460 --> 00:21:55.740
the toriah foods to contact their relatives or

00:21:55.740 --> 00:21:59.299
you know friends and so it was that challenging

00:21:59.299 --> 00:22:03.039
it was that hard but I continuously days and

00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:06.380
night I was using the candles and studying my

00:22:06.380 --> 00:22:09.480
language and practicing it and then as I was

00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:13.210
practicing this language I had to talk louder

00:22:13.210 --> 00:22:16.789
sometimes, especially when I was walking on the

00:22:16.789 --> 00:22:18.970
streets in the neighborhood. And then the kids

00:22:18.970 --> 00:22:21.130
noticed. They're like, hey, what the heck are

00:22:21.130 --> 00:22:24.710
you talking? Are you crazy? What is this? I'm

00:22:24.710 --> 00:22:26.930
like, hey, man, this is international language.

00:22:27.150 --> 00:22:30.789
This is called English. If you learn it in the

00:22:30.789 --> 00:22:33.349
future, you will have a very good job. And, you

00:22:33.349 --> 00:22:35.609
know, you can become a doctor. You can become

00:22:35.609 --> 00:22:38.730
an engineer. Go to the pharmacy and see all the

00:22:38.730 --> 00:22:42.920
medicine is. you know using the the pharmacists

00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:45.400
are using english language for you know identifying

00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:48.220
the medicines the doctor language is english

00:22:48.220 --> 00:22:51.140
the engineer language is english and i kind of

00:22:51.140 --> 00:22:53.619
explained this thing as i was explaining they're

00:22:53.619 --> 00:22:55.740
like hey why don't you teach us whatever you

00:22:55.740 --> 00:22:59.640
would teach us and this actually created a very

00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:03.000
good opportunity for me it became an obligation

00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:07.140
more of an obligation like i had to study so

00:23:07.140 --> 00:23:09.940
that I can better teach tomorrow to my students.

00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:13.500
That way, if they ask me something, I should

00:23:13.500 --> 00:23:16.500
not have a bad face. I should not get embarrassed.

00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:20.279
Like I was challenging myself, how should I say

00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:22.720
this in English? How about if they ask me this?

00:23:23.140 --> 00:23:25.960
Or how about if they ask me about that? What

00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:29.059
should be my answer to them? in the class so

00:23:29.059 --> 00:23:31.839
this was kind of more an obligation and challenge

00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:36.380
and it opened the road for me to go and search

00:23:36.380 --> 00:23:39.400
more and more like i had this tsarist dictionary

00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:42.779
i was looking up on my vocabulary finding the

00:23:42.779 --> 00:23:45.779
right specific word that i needed for tomorrow

00:23:45.779 --> 00:23:49.420
and i would learn how to spell it i would learn

00:23:49.420 --> 00:23:52.079
how to what's the past form how should i use

00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:54.240
it in the present form like all these different

00:23:54.240 --> 00:24:00.089
tenses and Life was at that time really challenging.

00:24:00.269 --> 00:24:04.150
We did not have enough resources, like economical

00:24:04.150 --> 00:24:07.349
resources, such as we did not have a car in the

00:24:07.349 --> 00:24:11.849
house. We did not have enough food for all of

00:24:11.849 --> 00:24:15.190
us to eat. It was very difficult and challenging

00:24:15.190 --> 00:24:17.990
because the Mujahideen and the communist parties

00:24:17.990 --> 00:24:21.670
were in fight most of the time, the routes that

00:24:21.670 --> 00:24:25.930
delivered the food. like coconut oil, flour,

00:24:26.349 --> 00:24:30.390
rice, or any commodities or food products, sometimes

00:24:30.390 --> 00:24:33.329
because of the civil wars, the roads will get

00:24:33.329 --> 00:24:37.210
blocked because the convoys that were coming

00:24:37.210 --> 00:24:40.910
from Russia to Afghanistan, especially the food

00:24:40.910 --> 00:24:44.089
products, the Mujahideen would put a landmine

00:24:44.089 --> 00:24:47.009
in the middle of the street and, you know, when

00:24:47.009 --> 00:24:50.589
the convoy goes on it and it will blow off the...

00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:54.900
Then the helicopters were flying, and then for

00:24:54.900 --> 00:24:57.480
a few days there were shortages of food, and

00:24:57.480 --> 00:25:02.420
we just had to eat whatever comes from grandfather's

00:25:02.420 --> 00:25:06.980
gardens. Most of the time, I remember in the

00:25:06.980 --> 00:25:10.720
mornings, I only ate grapes. At lunchtime, I

00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:13.599
only ate grapes, and at night I ate grapes. There

00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:15.880
was no bread, there was no cooking oil, there

00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:20.039
was no... being arise because of all the distraction

00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:23.680
and the civil wars and the delays and all those

00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:28.039
different things that was happening and i remember

00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:31.380
that as a child one time when i was going to

00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:36.420
the mosque uh to find my father uh grandfather

00:25:36.420 --> 00:25:40.819
and uh you know there was a couple of guys they

00:25:40.819 --> 00:25:44.079
pointed loaded guns at me and they told me that

00:25:44.619 --> 00:25:47.759
Are you a communist or a Mujahideen? I told them

00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:52.240
I'm a child. I don't know. They fired the full

00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:56.359
magazines on two sides of me. I was really scared.

00:25:56.539 --> 00:25:59.819
I cried and I didn't know what to do. I was shaking.

00:26:00.180 --> 00:26:04.599
But then later on, as I was growing, I remembered

00:26:04.599 --> 00:26:07.970
that those guys were drunk. Those were the Mujahideen

00:26:07.970 --> 00:26:10.410
soldiers. They were really, really drunk and

00:26:10.410 --> 00:26:13.990
they were enjoying from shooting at my sides

00:26:13.990 --> 00:26:16.410
and watching my cries. And they were enjoying

00:26:16.410 --> 00:26:21.089
from that point. So there was lots of cruelties

00:26:21.089 --> 00:26:24.390
in Afghanistan at that time. There was not accountability

00:26:24.390 --> 00:26:27.670
because there were no accountable governments.

00:26:27.890 --> 00:26:31.490
The country was divided into different segments.

00:26:32.650 --> 00:26:36.509
Like even the Mujahideens, there was Hizb -e

00:26:36.509 --> 00:26:43.049
-Islami, Jamia -e -Islami, Harakat. They were

00:26:43.049 --> 00:26:47.869
funded and supported by the Wahhabis from Saudi

00:26:47.869 --> 00:26:52.170
Arabia, from Pakistan, from Iran. And then on

00:26:52.170 --> 00:26:55.930
the other side was from Russians. It was a mess.

00:26:56.109 --> 00:26:59.390
It was a big mess. Nobody knew who was responsible.

00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:04.980
who is accountable. There was no accountability

00:27:04.980 --> 00:27:07.920
at that time at all. Anybody could do anything

00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:13.480
they want. But if we come like before the start

00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:17.839
of jihad or before the emergence of the Mujahideen,

00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:21.059
I do not remember that time because I was very,

00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:23.920
very young. But before that, Kabul, Afghanistan,

00:27:24.220 --> 00:27:29.009
it had a very good era. like especially during

00:27:29.009 --> 00:27:32.650
the kings i have shot as you look to the pictures

00:27:32.650 --> 00:27:37.470
the ladies wore mini skirts the all the males

00:27:37.470 --> 00:27:41.849
they were pants and coats and tie and my dad

00:27:41.849 --> 00:27:45.009
was talking that people came from germany from

00:27:45.009 --> 00:27:50.029
india from iran from turkmenistan into cobble

00:27:50.029 --> 00:27:54.569
university to do their uh to do their studies

00:27:54.569 --> 00:27:57.769
on on our native language like Pashto or Dari

00:27:57.769 --> 00:28:01.170
they were doing their masters over there uh but

00:28:01.170 --> 00:28:05.450
it it had all the the beauties and also but unfortunately

00:28:05.450 --> 00:28:09.730
all the beauties the hospitalities of the Afghan

00:28:09.730 --> 00:28:12.410
people the friendliness of the Afghan people

00:28:12.410 --> 00:28:17.740
is taken away by uh The 40 or 47 years of the

00:28:17.740 --> 00:28:21.740
wars and the contradictions and the different

00:28:21.740 --> 00:28:25.140
supports of the parties, because this country

00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:29.660
is more of a mountainous country and the intelligence

00:28:29.660 --> 00:28:33.960
and the region has always interfered. Like, for

00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.480
example, if we see today Saudi Arabia and Iran,

00:28:37.779 --> 00:28:40.339
they are doing their fight in Afghanistan. Their

00:28:40.339 --> 00:28:43.240
animosity, their rivalries are happening in Afghanistan.

00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:45.980
On the other hand, when you see Pakistan and

00:28:45.980 --> 00:28:49.640
India is doing the same thing. If, you know,

00:28:49.700 --> 00:28:52.539
the government in Afghanistan, if they give face

00:28:52.539 --> 00:28:55.099
to India a little bit, then Pakistan becomes

00:28:55.099 --> 00:28:58.640
unhappy. If they make friendship with Pakistan,

00:28:58.779 --> 00:29:02.000
India becomes unhappy because of the animosity

00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:05.319
and the rivalries and the greed for power and

00:29:05.319 --> 00:29:10.039
the multi -ethnic nation and as well as, you

00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:13.019
know, the interfere of the neighboring countries.

00:29:13.710 --> 00:29:21.170
The country has lost all its best heritage, hospitality.

00:29:21.789 --> 00:29:25.849
I mean, the good people, the people are starving.

00:29:26.230 --> 00:29:29.369
And today it's a shame, as we can see, you know,

00:29:29.430 --> 00:29:33.750
all the girls are banned from school, even at

00:29:33.750 --> 00:29:38.369
the Mujahideen time at that time. had the same

00:29:38.369 --> 00:29:42.630
ideology as the Taliban has it today. I remember

00:29:42.630 --> 00:29:48.349
that Mujahideen used the battery, the acid water,

00:29:48.630 --> 00:29:51.710
the water that you use for the battery, the car

00:29:51.710 --> 00:29:55.670
battery, they used it and they spread it on the

00:29:55.670 --> 00:30:01.509
Kabul University, the girls' faces, because they

00:30:01.509 --> 00:30:05.319
thought that it's a shame. it's shame for for

00:30:05.319 --> 00:30:08.500
the afghan families if their ladies or their

00:30:08.500 --> 00:30:11.920
girls are wearing mini skirts or you know they

00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:14.279
are not wearing burqas or they are not covered

00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:16.839
they are coming to the university because that's

00:30:16.839 --> 00:30:20.259
how they were taught in the pakistani madrasas

00:30:20.259 --> 00:30:23.660
and yet it's shamefully continuously happening

00:30:23.660 --> 00:30:27.000
in afghanistan and on the other hand when i look

00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:30.900
there is no one in afghanistan who should think

00:30:30.900 --> 00:30:33.900
about the national interest of Afghanistan. They

00:30:33.900 --> 00:30:36.279
are all thinking about their party's benefits,

00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:41.519
their tribe's benefits, or their region's benefits.

00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:45.660
There is no one among all those people who call

00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:48.880
themselves the Afghan leaders, there is no one

00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:52.420
who I see that he should have a comprehensive

00:30:52.420 --> 00:30:57.859
agenda about the national interest of Afghanistan

00:30:57.859 --> 00:31:01.849
as a whole. Even at that time and now. Well,

00:31:01.910 --> 00:31:04.269
firstly, thank you for, again, painting a picture.

00:31:04.369 --> 00:31:06.170
I've had a couple of your fellow Afghani natives.

00:31:06.569 --> 00:31:09.349
Fahim Fazli, who moved to the U .S., became an

00:31:09.349 --> 00:31:11.509
actor and actually went back to join the Marines

00:31:11.509 --> 00:31:13.910
as an interpreter for a few years. And then Wali

00:31:13.910 --> 00:31:16.230
Taslin, who now works with the Black Rifle guys.

00:31:16.410 --> 00:31:19.519
He was a commando over there, too. But getting

00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:22.400
this picture painted of what it was like and

00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:25.559
some of the desperation that we see when people

00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:27.400
are just trying to feed their families and joining

00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:29.140
some of these militia. And then as you're talking

00:31:29.140 --> 00:31:31.779
about people protecting their parties rather

00:31:31.779 --> 00:31:34.019
than serving the nation, well, that sounds very,

00:31:34.059 --> 00:31:36.079
very familiar here in the US too. So there's

00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:37.900
a lot of commonalities, I think, even there.

00:31:38.500 --> 00:31:42.140
Well, Chad, I want to bring you in. Same thing

00:31:42.140 --> 00:31:43.839
for you. Let's start at the very beginning. So

00:31:43.839 --> 00:31:45.740
tell me where you were born and tell me a little

00:31:45.740 --> 00:31:47.799
bit about your family dynamic, what your parents

00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:52.160
did and how many siblings. Well, my family is

00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:56.059
84 years of military service. So definitely a

00:31:56.059 --> 00:32:00.079
big military family. We started back World War

00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:03.579
II, Korea. My father was the first Marine in

00:32:03.579 --> 00:32:05.579
our family. So 50 something years ago, my father

00:32:05.579 --> 00:32:07.140
went to Marines, was an infantryman in Vietnam.

00:32:07.900 --> 00:32:10.019
um myself doing eight deployments to afghanistan

00:32:10.019 --> 00:32:13.480
and then both my sons marines uh one was afghanistan

00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:16.700
veteran as well hunter so that's kind of you

00:32:16.700 --> 00:32:18.940
know my family background uh but i did come from

00:32:18.940 --> 00:32:23.220
a very uh southern louisiana uh grew up in like

00:32:23.220 --> 00:32:25.240
if you ever seen swamp people like grew up in

00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:28.680
the homa tibeto raceland those areas louisiana

00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:30.859
which is very like i don't want to say country

00:32:30.859 --> 00:32:35.660
very swamp uh people kind of in my whole uh Mother's

00:32:35.660 --> 00:32:37.099
side of my family were commercial fishermen.

00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:40.880
So my first job was skinning catfish and fishing

00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:44.599
with my grandfather. And then my dad's side of

00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:47.619
the family were trading cattle and baling hay.

00:32:47.799 --> 00:32:51.380
So very blue collar, hardworking families. A

00:32:51.380 --> 00:32:54.740
lot of dysfunctional. A lot of dysfunction in

00:32:54.740 --> 00:32:57.920
my home. My father definitely had his hardships

00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:01.200
from Vietnam. A lot of alcohol. A lot of women

00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:05.119
went through. you know multiple marriages and

00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:07.859
women and and a very violent man so a lot of

00:33:07.859 --> 00:33:10.819
physical abuse in my home including myself and

00:33:10.819 --> 00:33:12.299
i don't mean spanking something like fist to

00:33:12.299 --> 00:33:15.059
face physical abuse so that's kind of how i grew

00:33:15.059 --> 00:33:16.759
up i had a brother he was a year older than me

00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:20.180
we were uh we were southern louisiana country

00:33:20.180 --> 00:33:23.839
boys always out in the mud and woods and swamps

00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:26.059
playing like we're in the military and had this

00:33:26.059 --> 00:33:29.900
desire to go into military and um we uh we decided

00:33:29.900 --> 00:33:32.079
i was 13 he was 14 years old that's what we would

00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:34.380
do and uh we really thought it would be a way

00:33:34.380 --> 00:33:37.579
to escape that lifestyle and uh but but one of

00:33:37.579 --> 00:33:40.359
the things we had uh always noticed was my father

00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:42.839
as uh angry of his man as he was the only thing

00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:44.200
that made him really happy was the fact that

00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:46.480
he was the united states marine and uh and that

00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:49.359
was like you know the marines was like what appealed

00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:51.920
to me because it was he was so proud of it and

00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:54.740
i had uh i just really that was around the time

00:33:54.740 --> 00:33:58.029
of uh you know navy seals had those documentaries

00:33:58.029 --> 00:33:59.829
coming out and they were really promoting the

00:33:59.829 --> 00:34:02.630
seals so super interested in the jumping and

00:34:02.630 --> 00:34:04.730
diving but i didn't want to be in the navy and

00:34:04.730 --> 00:34:06.549
so i learned about recon marines and force recon

00:34:06.549 --> 00:34:08.949
marines and started reading a lot of books uh

00:34:08.949 --> 00:34:12.269
on that those guys in vietnam and had this really

00:34:12.269 --> 00:34:15.110
infatuation with uh marine marine reconnaissance

00:34:15.110 --> 00:34:17.550
and uh particularly a unit third force recon

00:34:17.550 --> 00:34:21.679
in uh in Vietnam. And that ironically ended up

00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:24.460
being in that unit years later. But, uh, so that's

00:34:24.460 --> 00:34:26.039
the path we went on. Me and my brother started

00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:27.519
running and swimming. We're lifelong athletes.

00:34:27.619 --> 00:34:30.179
So we were, uh, started running and swimming

00:34:30.179 --> 00:34:32.420
at a young age and about a year into that tragedy

00:34:32.420 --> 00:34:34.019
hit my family and my brother was shot and killed.

00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:37.539
Um, and, uh, so it was extremely devastating

00:34:37.539 --> 00:34:39.940
to me, put me in a pretty deep isolation as a

00:34:39.940 --> 00:34:44.800
child. Uh, he, uh, my, what I had left of a family,

00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:46.579
my father did not want to deal with the grieving

00:34:46.579 --> 00:34:50.909
mother. uh it was my it was actually my stepmom

00:34:50.909 --> 00:34:54.110
she moved away my dad moved to africa to go take

00:34:54.110 --> 00:34:56.090
a job there not to deal with that so my 20 year

00:34:56.090 --> 00:34:58.550
old sister and myself ended up living in my in

00:34:58.550 --> 00:35:02.610
my my dad's home and uh i was trying to the house

00:35:02.610 --> 00:35:05.030
was paid for but everything else was on us so

00:35:05.030 --> 00:35:08.389
uh you know from 14 to 17 years old i was working

00:35:08.389 --> 00:35:11.190
trying to go to high school and uh probably wasn't

00:35:11.190 --> 00:35:13.599
going to graduate high school uh and i went to

00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:15.000
a marine corps recruiter named staff sergeant

00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:17.139
brown and told him my story told him what i was

00:35:17.139 --> 00:35:19.639
going through he helped me write a hardship letter

00:35:19.639 --> 00:35:21.099
to the marine corps and the marine corps enlisted

00:35:21.099 --> 00:35:22.960
me at 17 years old without without even a high

00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:27.980
school diploma and so uh that's 1993 and uh in

00:35:27.980 --> 00:35:29.900
that first year is when i tried out to be you

00:35:29.900 --> 00:35:32.519
know become a reconnaissance marine and uh as

00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:34.539
most people probably listening knows it's very

00:35:34.539 --> 00:35:36.400
difficult in any special operations to make it

00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:38.480
through that process all the branches have about

00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:40.219
80 % attrition rate in their special operations

00:35:40.219 --> 00:35:43.440
programs. And somehow at 18 years old, you know,

00:35:43.460 --> 00:35:45.719
I was, I was able to make it through my first

00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:48.699
round. And, you know, there's a lot of great

00:35:48.699 --> 00:35:50.980
jobs in the military, but for me, there was nothing

00:35:50.980 --> 00:35:52.820
more fitting for me than being a recon Marine.

00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:55.860
And, but, you know, going into that time, there's

00:35:55.860 --> 00:35:58.480
a lot of peacetime training. And so I got to

00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:00.460
do all the schools, you know, combat dive, jump

00:36:00.460 --> 00:36:02.519
school, free fall school, and then becoming a

00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:04.440
free fall team leader at third force recon company.

00:36:05.339 --> 00:36:09.760
And I was in almost 10 years before 9 -11 happened.

00:36:09.940 --> 00:36:12.420
And when 9 -11 happened, you know, I was a sergeant

00:36:12.420 --> 00:36:15.119
team leader at 3rd and 4th Street Con and watching

00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:17.179
those planes fly in the Royal Charity Center

00:36:17.179 --> 00:36:20.179
buildings. I do, you know, I think everyone in

00:36:20.179 --> 00:36:22.139
the military at the time knew, like, my life's

00:36:22.139 --> 00:36:24.139
about to be different and the world just changed

00:36:24.139 --> 00:36:27.960
and we're going to go make this right. And so

00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:31.440
I was extremely eager to get my chance to deploy.

00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:34.059
But that's kind of how I grew up and what brought

00:36:34.059 --> 00:36:38.510
me. to, you know, from being a kid. And I look

00:36:38.510 --> 00:36:41.190
back at all that from martial arts, starting

00:36:41.190 --> 00:36:45.289
at five years old to a dysfunctional home, which

00:36:45.289 --> 00:36:47.150
I'm not championing a dysfunctional home at all.

00:36:47.289 --> 00:36:49.789
But the hardships that came with that, I believe

00:36:49.789 --> 00:36:54.170
all those things allowed me to have a certain

00:36:54.170 --> 00:36:57.530
resiliency and a certain drive to, you know,

00:36:57.550 --> 00:37:01.329
want to make my life better and seize opportunities

00:37:01.329 --> 00:37:03.090
to make my life better because of the way I grew

00:37:03.090 --> 00:37:07.119
up. And it all led me to the opportunity I had

00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:09.860
to, you know, ultimately when September 11th

00:37:09.860 --> 00:37:11.880
happened, you know, take all those things and

00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:14.599
all that life experience and trials and tribulations

00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:17.860
and combine with that training experience and

00:37:17.860 --> 00:37:20.960
go and take advantage of the opportunity that

00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:24.159
I had to, you know, do something good to set

00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:26.539
the record straight for 9 -11. And then ultimately

00:37:26.539 --> 00:37:28.840
my perspective changed when I got to Afghanistan

00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:30.500
and it wasn't just about 9 -11, it was about

00:37:30.500 --> 00:37:33.010
helping. those people in afghanistan that are

00:37:33.010 --> 00:37:35.710
truly oppressed and you know situations like

00:37:35.710 --> 00:37:37.329
that really change your perspective when you

00:37:37.329 --> 00:37:40.030
get to see them firsthand absolutely well i want

00:37:40.030 --> 00:37:42.230
to go back for a second when i first started

00:37:42.230 --> 00:37:44.650
this podcast which is just over six years ago

00:37:44.650 --> 00:37:48.750
now as a firefighter and a paramedic we kind

00:37:48.750 --> 00:37:50.510
of were starting to understand the whole mental

00:37:50.510 --> 00:37:52.730
health conversation but it was still well it's

00:37:52.730 --> 00:37:54.909
what we see on the job so it's what you know

00:37:54.909 --> 00:37:57.489
as he saw when he lost his friends it's what

00:37:57.489 --> 00:38:01.420
you know you saw when you were deployed but As

00:38:01.420 --> 00:38:03.400
this has kind of paid out and I've heard all

00:38:03.400 --> 00:38:05.639
these stories, what I realize is one of the least

00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:08.619
discussed but seemingly most powerful elements

00:38:08.619 --> 00:38:10.760
of mental health in the first responder or military

00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:13.179
profession is actually what happened to us before

00:38:13.179 --> 00:38:16.599
we ever put the uniform on. With you having all

00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:19.179
these generations of different veterans in your

00:38:19.179 --> 00:38:21.739
family, including your own children, what is

00:38:21.739 --> 00:38:23.619
your observation of that, whether it's within

00:38:23.619 --> 00:38:25.699
your family lineage or the people that come to

00:38:25.699 --> 00:38:28.829
the Mighty Oaks? Well, I believe what I've deserved

00:38:28.829 --> 00:38:33.190
in my own life and in the life of thousands now,

00:38:33.309 --> 00:38:35.329
you know, I've spoken to 450 ,000 active duty

00:38:35.329 --> 00:38:37.829
troops in my residency speaking, and then we've

00:38:37.829 --> 00:38:40.730
had 4 ,500 graduates of our recovery program.

00:38:41.690 --> 00:38:44.670
What I really have determined is that there's

00:38:44.670 --> 00:38:50.280
a predisposition to. dealing with anxiety, depression,

00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:54.159
and PTSD that is seen in military veterans, police,

00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:56.920
fire, you know, people from the EMS and emergency

00:38:56.920 --> 00:38:59.780
and first responder field. I think there's a

00:38:59.780 --> 00:39:01.940
predisposition to it because, you know, I've

00:39:01.940 --> 00:39:04.320
seen some amazing guys, like I got a Matt Hyde,

00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:07.280
who's a Navy SEAL, some incredible combat experience.

00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:09.500
Jeremy Stolenecker, who's a co -founder of Mighty

00:39:09.500 --> 00:39:13.139
Oaks, he's a Marine infantry, infantry platoon

00:39:13.139 --> 00:39:16.239
commander. Like these guys both had a... high

00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:18.599
level combat trauma experiences, but because

00:39:18.599 --> 00:39:20.079
of the way they were raised, they grew up in

00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:23.300
really healthy family. They were strong Christians

00:39:23.300 --> 00:39:24.920
before they went in. They had a really strong

00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:27.900
spiritual foundation in their life. They seen

00:39:27.900 --> 00:39:30.079
those hard things and had a little bit of, maybe

00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:32.820
a little bit of a, you know, time navigating

00:39:32.820 --> 00:39:34.820
past them. But ultimately they were, because

00:39:34.820 --> 00:39:37.539
of the, the past they had, they were able to

00:39:37.539 --> 00:39:42.260
rebound really quickly where people like me and

00:39:42.260 --> 00:39:44.820
people have had very rough childhoods, which

00:39:44.820 --> 00:39:47.440
is a lot of people that end up in the military.

00:39:47.539 --> 00:39:49.059
A lot of people that end up in law enforcement

00:39:49.059 --> 00:39:51.880
and fire. And particularly in my community, special

00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:53.480
operations community, people that grew up with

00:39:53.480 --> 00:39:56.539
that kind of, that kind of rough, dirty lifestyle,

00:39:56.579 --> 00:40:00.699
that grit end up in those fields. They already

00:40:00.699 --> 00:40:03.699
have like so much built up. I mean, just like

00:40:03.699 --> 00:40:05.559
this coffee cup here, right? They have so much

00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:07.500
built up. So if this is coffee cup and I know

00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:09.239
if someone is listening and not looking, so kind

00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:11.000
of indicating like maybe three quarters full

00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:14.579
of a cup of trauma. through their childhood and

00:40:14.579 --> 00:40:18.039
life, and he takes a major event like a shooting

00:40:18.039 --> 00:40:22.059
or a mass casualty incident or seeing, you know,

00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:25.119
kids mangled or going to combat, if you took

00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:28.340
that three -quarters full cup and you dropped

00:40:28.340 --> 00:40:30.460
a bunch of chunks in it of ice, it's going to

00:40:30.460 --> 00:40:33.320
come spilling over. And, you know, that's what

00:40:33.320 --> 00:40:36.039
I think we see. But if you have like a really

00:40:36.039 --> 00:40:38.840
stable upbringing and childhood and that cup's

00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:41.599
only a quarter full of trauma and hardship and

00:40:41.599 --> 00:40:45.610
heartbreak. then you're able to drop some pretty

00:40:45.610 --> 00:40:48.070
big things in it. And yeah, it rattles your world

00:40:48.070 --> 00:40:49.789
a little bit, but you're able to not spill over.

00:40:50.449 --> 00:40:53.650
And that's kind of was me. I mean, my whole life,

00:40:53.710 --> 00:40:57.949
I mean, extreme physical abuse in my life, rejection

00:40:57.949 --> 00:41:01.030
from my parents. I felt my whole life the abandonment

00:41:01.030 --> 00:41:02.889
of both my mother and father not wanting me.

00:41:03.309 --> 00:41:07.090
And then moving into my brother being who's the

00:41:07.090 --> 00:41:08.690
closest person to me in my life at that time,

00:41:08.750 --> 00:41:10.409
going through dysfunctional home like that, you

00:41:10.409 --> 00:41:13.199
get really bonded. with a sibling and and then

00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:15.780
to have him just in one moment you know we were

00:41:15.780 --> 00:41:17.440
talking that morning in the next morning you

00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:19.340
know hours later he was shot in the chest and

00:41:19.340 --> 00:41:22.340
immediately killed he's gone uh those types of

00:41:22.340 --> 00:41:24.519
things and the following year my grandparents

00:41:24.519 --> 00:41:28.539
like uh my grandfather was killed and and my

00:41:28.539 --> 00:41:31.119
grandmother who i like sat and had ate breakfast

00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:33.539
with every morning like was killed so like all

00:41:33.539 --> 00:41:36.059
this like happened at one time and then you know

00:41:36.059 --> 00:41:39.599
it never dealt with it at all uh you know there

00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:41.699
was no i wasn't a healthy home environment to

00:41:41.699 --> 00:41:44.280
be able to help process those things so so you

00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:46.860
go into military and you just kind of live life

00:41:46.860 --> 00:41:48.460
and those things are just right below the surface

00:41:48.460 --> 00:41:50.460
they're not they're not surfacing you're not

00:41:50.460 --> 00:41:51.719
seeing anything from it they're right below the

00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:54.380
surface but then you add something like aid deployments

00:41:54.380 --> 00:41:57.099
to afghanistan you know uh the things that these

00:41:57.099 --> 00:42:00.019
and i seen you know we uh they're not aid deployments

00:42:00.019 --> 00:42:04.559
i uh had 15 friends buried uh you know all of

00:42:04.559 --> 00:42:06.400
them very close to, but one of them, you know,

00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:08.619
was like a best friend of 10 years. We served

00:42:08.619 --> 00:42:11.420
together for 10 years. So having all those things

00:42:11.420 --> 00:42:14.880
happen, you know, my cup was already full and

00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:18.300
it spilled over and, you know, brought a lot

00:42:18.300 --> 00:42:20.139
of things out in my personal life and my family

00:42:20.139 --> 00:42:22.239
and people around me had to suffer for it. And,

00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:25.340
you know, I thought I was unique in that, but

00:42:25.340 --> 00:42:26.920
doing the work that I do now, I realized I'm

00:42:26.920 --> 00:42:28.820
not unique in that at all. Like so many guys

00:42:28.820 --> 00:42:31.219
from the, again, from the military and first

00:42:31.219 --> 00:42:34.809
responder communities. uh if you look at look

00:42:34.809 --> 00:42:36.929
at their lives it's a very consistent pattern

00:42:36.929 --> 00:42:39.309
in mind and uh we had all these guys that are

00:42:39.309 --> 00:42:41.849
amazing combat veterans and first responders

00:42:41.849 --> 00:42:44.030
they they have been through so much on a job

00:42:44.030 --> 00:42:46.690
and you know guys that have had like navy cross

00:42:46.690 --> 00:42:49.449
recipients or medal of honor recipients and uh

00:42:50.129 --> 00:42:52.610
And, you know, guys, Silver Star, stuff like

00:42:52.610 --> 00:42:54.590
that, first responders, police officers have

00:42:54.590 --> 00:42:56.369
been in these incredible heroic shootings and

00:42:56.369 --> 00:42:58.929
things like this. And firefighters are running

00:42:58.929 --> 00:43:00.690
into burning buildings and all these things,

00:43:00.730 --> 00:43:03.750
right? And you get them in our program and they're

00:43:03.750 --> 00:43:05.349
there for a week. And at the end of that week,

00:43:05.409 --> 00:43:06.710
they get the opportunity to share their story.

00:43:06.809 --> 00:43:08.010
And you're waiting for it. You're waiting for

00:43:08.010 --> 00:43:10.570
it. You know, there I was like knee deep in hand

00:43:10.570 --> 00:43:13.909
grenade pins and bullet casings or, you know,

00:43:13.909 --> 00:43:15.849
the building was burning and the fire was there,

00:43:15.909 --> 00:43:17.469
but I could hear a little girl screaming. You're

00:43:17.469 --> 00:43:20.250
waiting for them to say that. But they say, when

00:43:20.250 --> 00:43:23.289
I was seven years old, when I was five, when

00:43:23.289 --> 00:43:25.190
I was 10 years, that's what you hear. That's

00:43:25.190 --> 00:43:28.329
where they start. And, and, and it's, and at

00:43:28.329 --> 00:43:31.809
first it shocked me, but now it's like, you know,

00:43:31.809 --> 00:43:33.849
I understand that's, that's where it began. And,

00:43:33.849 --> 00:43:35.989
and, and oftentimes it's where people have to

00:43:35.989 --> 00:43:38.670
go back to, to find the healing in the programs

00:43:38.670 --> 00:43:41.250
that we do. Well, I really appreciate your perspective

00:43:41.250 --> 00:43:43.469
because that's an aha moment that I had. And

00:43:43.469 --> 00:43:45.909
I was, you know, somewhat educated in this area

00:43:45.909 --> 00:43:48.150
and I was a little bit more clued into the kind

00:43:48.150 --> 00:43:50.289
of physical and mental wellness than some people

00:43:50.289 --> 00:43:53.929
are. But when you look at that now and you look,

00:43:54.050 --> 00:43:57.110
okay, you have this childhood where you are abused,

00:43:57.289 --> 00:43:59.449
you do feel vulnerable, you want the buck to

00:43:59.449 --> 00:44:01.309
stop there, you want to be the protector, you

00:44:01.309 --> 00:44:03.889
want to build this shield around you. Our professions

00:44:03.889 --> 00:44:06.389
are the perfect ones to walk into. Then you go

00:44:06.389 --> 00:44:09.519
in there, you're so busy. with trying to stay

00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:12.880
alive in a house fire i know in a firefight that

00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:15.739
it's a great distraction until it's not until

00:44:15.739 --> 00:44:17.739
we get to that point whether we've seen so much

00:44:17.739 --> 00:44:20.119
trauma or we just have the opposite we transition

00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:22.300
out we stop and now we're forced to be on our

00:44:22.300 --> 00:44:25.239
own with our thoughts and so then when you look

00:44:25.239 --> 00:44:28.039
at that the conversation is out there let's just

00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:31.239
do 22 push -ups and talk about stigma or oh it

00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:34.420
must be in that that call that you had If you're

00:44:34.420 --> 00:44:36.820
not addressing the formative years of your life

00:44:36.820 --> 00:44:38.480
that led you into that profession in the first

00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:42.280
place, that's why these men and women feel like,

00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:44.219
well, I may as well just stick a gun in my mouth

00:44:44.219 --> 00:44:46.500
because I tried counseling. It didn't work. So

00:44:46.500 --> 00:44:48.300
this is what's so important. I think to hear

00:44:48.300 --> 00:44:52.099
voices like yours is until we look at the holistic

00:44:52.099 --> 00:44:54.519
human being from birth through to where they

00:44:54.519 --> 00:44:57.900
are now, the chances of missing the origin of

00:44:57.900 --> 00:45:01.179
the trauma are huge. It's the tip of the iceberg

00:45:01.179 --> 00:45:04.980
analogy, right? Most counselors, especially if

00:45:04.980 --> 00:45:07.280
you're doing what's called cognitive therapy,

00:45:07.619 --> 00:45:09.460
they're addressing the tip of the iceberg and

00:45:09.460 --> 00:45:11.079
they're not looking at everything below the surface.

00:45:11.440 --> 00:45:14.280
And I'm not saying that's all cognitive therapists,

00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:17.460
but that's what I've seen, particularly in the

00:45:17.460 --> 00:45:20.739
VA. There's lots of different types of treatments.

00:45:20.920 --> 00:45:22.719
You have your traditional clinical cognitive

00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:27.099
therapy. You have a methodology that's called

00:45:27.099 --> 00:45:29.829
prolonged exposure. um and then you have you

00:45:29.829 --> 00:45:33.309
know other like other type of mentoring uh programs

00:45:33.309 --> 00:45:35.170
and all of them you know some of them are good

00:45:35.170 --> 00:45:37.409
some of them are bad but what i found in in the

00:45:37.409 --> 00:45:40.010
cognitive therapy which is very traditional to

00:45:40.010 --> 00:45:46.110
uh to please fire and uh and and um and uh military

00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:49.059
is that they try to find an incident and then

00:45:49.059 --> 00:45:51.340
they try to cast blame they try to lead you to

00:45:51.340 --> 00:45:53.500
cast blame of an incident on someone else to

00:45:53.500 --> 00:45:56.320
take it off of you and uh and that's not a long

00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:58.239
-term healthy it's just it's the analogy when

00:45:58.239 --> 00:45:59.880
you see you know sigmund freud saying tell me

00:45:59.880 --> 00:46:01.739
about your mother tell me about your father because

00:46:01.739 --> 00:46:03.199
they're going back to childhood and saying well

00:46:03.199 --> 00:46:04.960
you're this way because your mother or father

00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:07.699
treated you bad there's no acceptance or responsibility

00:46:07.699 --> 00:46:09.619
with that you can't change what your mother and

00:46:09.619 --> 00:46:11.099
father did but you can change how you respond

00:46:11.099 --> 00:46:13.920
to it And so that's why I love things like prolonged

00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:16.340
exposure because you go back to all the incidents

00:46:16.340 --> 00:46:18.639
in your life and you look at that and you say,

00:46:18.780 --> 00:46:20.219
well, I can't change what happened to me, but

00:46:20.219 --> 00:46:23.099
I can change how I respond to it. And then, you

00:46:23.099 --> 00:46:25.219
know, with us at Mighty Oaks, we do a faith -based

00:46:25.219 --> 00:46:27.179
approach where we say, yeah, you can't change

00:46:27.179 --> 00:46:29.659
what happened to you. but you can respond differently.

00:46:29.840 --> 00:46:31.579
And here's how the Bible says you should be living

00:46:31.579 --> 00:46:33.559
in response to these difficult things that you've

00:46:33.559 --> 00:46:35.639
been through in your life. And it gives back

00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:38.019
control to the person. It stops making them want

00:46:38.019 --> 00:46:40.880
to change what happened and actually face it

00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:42.039
and say, okay, this is how I'm going to live

00:46:42.039 --> 00:46:44.639
my life in response to that. And stop trying

00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:48.860
to cast blame or try short -term solutions. Like

00:46:48.860 --> 00:46:51.840
I said, hats off to everyone that has done 22

00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:54.360
pushups, but it changes absolutely nothing. uh

00:46:54.360 --> 00:46:56.500
i mean it brings awareness to a problem we already

00:46:56.500 --> 00:46:58.480
know they exist we already know 22 veterans kill

00:46:58.480 --> 00:47:00.239
themselves every day it's like everybody knows

00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:01.800
it so what are we going to do about it right

00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:03.539
that's uh let's take action let's not just bring

00:47:03.539 --> 00:47:06.139
awareness more awareness and raise millions and

00:47:06.139 --> 00:47:08.019
millions of dollars to be wasting awareness everyone

00:47:08.019 --> 00:47:10.099
knows there's a problem let's let's solve it

00:47:10.099 --> 00:47:13.400
let's put uh you know give people some tools

00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:16.199
to actually face the things they've been dealt

00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:20.010
with uh and then and then uh about to make better

00:47:20.010 --> 00:47:21.730
life decisions to live in spite of those things.

00:47:21.969 --> 00:47:24.730
And that's the approach I've always taken, you

00:47:24.730 --> 00:47:26.989
know, since in my own recovery, since I have

00:47:26.989 --> 00:47:29.630
faced my own recovery and all the thousands and

00:47:29.630 --> 00:47:30.849
thousands of people that we've been privileged

00:47:30.849 --> 00:47:34.449
to serve at Mighty Oaks. And it seems to be quite

00:47:34.449 --> 00:47:37.710
a bit more successful. Well, you mentioned about

00:47:37.710 --> 00:47:40.809
the kind of on -ramp into the Marines was quote

00:47:40.809 --> 00:47:43.630
unquote peacetime. So I know during that time,

00:47:43.670 --> 00:47:45.610
you also worked as a reserve police officer in

00:47:45.610 --> 00:47:48.269
New Orleans for a little bit. So two questions.

00:47:48.349 --> 00:47:51.199
Firstly, Was it amazing working with Steven Seagal?

00:47:53.699 --> 00:47:55.900
Actually, he was working at Jefferson Parish

00:47:55.900 --> 00:47:58.360
Sheriff's Office. Oh, he was? It was the same

00:47:58.360 --> 00:48:00.539
time frame. So I was at St. Charles Sheriff's

00:48:00.539 --> 00:48:01.900
Office. He was at Jefferson Parish, which is

00:48:01.900 --> 00:48:04.000
a neighboring one. And a lot of the task force

00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:06.079
we were on were the same ones. So he'd be coming

00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:08.460
around there, you know, doing his video team,

00:48:08.599 --> 00:48:11.800
getting some footage. He was a reserve at Jefferson

00:48:11.800 --> 00:48:13.739
Parish. So I was actually a reserve in the Marine

00:48:13.739 --> 00:48:15.980
Corps at the time in full time. police officer

00:48:15.980 --> 00:48:21.219
or deputy for four years because I did my four

00:48:21.219 --> 00:48:22.820
years of active duty as a recon Marine. Nothing

00:48:22.820 --> 00:48:25.400
much was going on at that time. I wanted to go

00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:27.099
back in as an officer, so I figured I'd go to

00:48:27.099 --> 00:48:31.059
college. I already had a wife and son and three

00:48:31.059 --> 00:48:34.760
kids by the time that was over, so I needed a

00:48:34.760 --> 00:48:36.480
job, and that was the best thing that I could

00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:40.940
do. In four years, I got to do a lot. I came

00:48:40.940 --> 00:48:42.719
out of the police academy, and they put me undercover

00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:45.880
in narcotics. And then I went to patrol for a

00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:47.599
year, and then I went to the detective bureau,

00:48:47.800 --> 00:48:49.760
and then I was in special investigations for

00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:53.099
the last year. So each year of those four years,

00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:57.679
I got to do some pretty incredible things. But

00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:00.019
I did see Steven Seagal down there shooting some

00:49:00.019 --> 00:49:03.320
of his stuff. All right. Well, on the other side,

00:49:03.420 --> 00:49:07.440
a serious note. I know during your time in the

00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:10.900
blue uniform, there was a pretty... a significant

00:49:10.900 --> 00:49:13.320
event where there was a suicidal man involved.

00:49:13.579 --> 00:49:15.860
So if you want to want to share that, because

00:49:15.860 --> 00:49:17.139
I mean, you've already talked about the trauma

00:49:17.139 --> 00:49:19.199
that you brought into the uniform, but this is

00:49:19.199 --> 00:49:22.280
another compounding element in your career. Yeah.

00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:24.920
You know, I just got done working, did a year

00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:28.380
undercover and I was just fresh in patrol. And

00:49:28.380 --> 00:49:32.460
one of my guys who helped train me, Steve Cantelli,

00:49:32.539 --> 00:49:36.059
he was a, he was like one beat over, which is,

00:49:36.099 --> 00:49:38.980
you know, one, one like geographical zone over

00:49:38.980 --> 00:49:44.550
for me. And Marine, very experienced guy. And

00:49:44.550 --> 00:49:46.869
I heard his voice come over the radio at a domestic

00:49:46.869 --> 00:49:48.329
violence call. And he could tell something was

00:49:48.329 --> 00:49:52.070
wrong. And he was calling for another unit. And

00:49:52.070 --> 00:49:54.210
in the radio system, we had just got a brand

00:49:54.210 --> 00:49:56.769
new radio system. And it glitched out, of course.

00:49:56.809 --> 00:49:58.389
You know, Murphy's a long time. It glitched out.

00:49:58.469 --> 00:50:00.469
And I couldn't hear him anymore. So I'm like

00:50:00.469 --> 00:50:03.510
rushing over there. And, you know, with my lights

00:50:03.510 --> 00:50:06.260
on. trying to get over there as fast as possible.

00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:08.219
Cause I just knew something was, was really wrong.

00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:10.380
And when I got to where he was, I saw this, he

00:50:10.380 --> 00:50:12.400
was in an elevated, like not a trailer home,

00:50:12.460 --> 00:50:15.940
but like a modular home. And, uh, and there was

00:50:15.940 --> 00:50:18.659
about 30 people outside of this house in front

00:50:18.659 --> 00:50:21.619
of, uh, you can tell it's like a big scene in

00:50:21.619 --> 00:50:23.480
front of this module home. And he's on this porch,

00:50:23.619 --> 00:50:26.000
elevated porch, arguing with this lady. And you

00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:27.679
can tell it's like super frantic. So I make it

00:50:27.679 --> 00:50:30.420
up on this porch and he tells me to, uh, Hey,

00:50:30.440 --> 00:50:32.840
deal with this lady. This guy had just barricaded

00:50:32.840 --> 00:50:35.809
himself in the back room. uh with a rifle his

00:50:35.809 --> 00:50:39.489
name was russell stebbins um and he he was uh

00:50:39.489 --> 00:50:43.090
we had dealt with him before and uh so the lady's

00:50:43.090 --> 00:50:45.369
trying to get inside the house uh well this guy

00:50:45.369 --> 00:50:47.409
has a gun so i'm working with her and i was like

00:50:47.409 --> 00:50:49.130
just done arguing with her so i grabbed her by

00:50:49.130 --> 00:50:51.469
the back of her clothes and kind of pushed her

00:50:51.469 --> 00:50:53.349
over the rail and had some of the men that were

00:50:53.349 --> 00:50:55.010
down in the crowd help grab her and pull her

00:50:55.010 --> 00:50:57.670
away so like her and her two kids were down there

00:50:58.219 --> 00:51:01.420
Two little kids were down there. And then I watched

00:51:01.420 --> 00:51:03.599
the front door and my partner, Steve, went to

00:51:03.599 --> 00:51:06.440
the back window of the room he was in because

00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:07.739
he didn't want him to start shooting out of that

00:51:07.739 --> 00:51:10.159
window towards the crowd. He just really wanted

00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:12.800
to get to his wife. He had been drinking. And

00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:17.139
as I'm standing in his doorway across kind of

00:51:17.139 --> 00:51:19.480
cat a corner across, there's like a kitchen to

00:51:19.480 --> 00:51:21.340
the right. And I'm looking right in the living

00:51:21.340 --> 00:51:24.219
room and across cat a corner is a hallway. And

00:51:24.219 --> 00:51:27.139
I seen there was a mirror and I could see him.

00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:29.719
leaning against the wall like taking cover in

00:51:29.719 --> 00:51:31.400
that corner and i could see him in the mirror

00:51:31.400 --> 00:51:34.980
and uh he had a rifle and he was like manipulating

00:51:34.980 --> 00:51:36.760
the chamber like press checking it you know to

00:51:36.760 --> 00:51:39.420
make sure you know to me making sure it's loaded

00:51:39.420 --> 00:51:42.800
and uh and you know i started yelling at him

00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:45.920
like hey put the put the gun down come out let's

00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:47.840
let's talk about you know whatever whatever's

00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:49.980
going on and he's yelling me you guys need to

00:51:49.980 --> 00:51:53.230
leave uh and i'm like we're not leaving so let's

00:51:53.230 --> 00:51:54.750
just talk about this put the gun down it's kind

00:51:54.750 --> 00:51:58.710
of like more a police dialogue at that time and

00:51:58.710 --> 00:52:00.670
uh you know he's telling me he's telling me to

00:52:00.670 --> 00:52:03.929
leave and then he comes around the corner and

00:52:03.929 --> 00:52:06.389
uh he had the rifle over his shoulder kind of

00:52:06.389 --> 00:52:08.989
like uh not in a not in his shoulder like he's

00:52:08.989 --> 00:52:11.489
shooting it but over his shoulder and his hand

00:52:11.489 --> 00:52:13.030
was over the receiver and his thumb was like

00:52:13.030 --> 00:52:15.070
right next to the trigger obviously my mind was

00:52:15.070 --> 00:52:17.010
like zoned in on that and so i could see his

00:52:17.010 --> 00:52:20.320
like if you think of the continuum of lethal

00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:23.079
force, like I had everything in my, you know,

00:52:23.099 --> 00:52:25.280
lethal force continuum to shoot him at that point,

00:52:25.300 --> 00:52:26.840
right? He's pointing a rifle at me, his hands

00:52:26.840 --> 00:52:28.940
next to the trigger. I could have shot him at

00:52:28.940 --> 00:52:30.480
that point. If you'd asked me that morning, like

00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:32.099
somebody points a gun at you, you're just like,

00:52:32.260 --> 00:52:33.579
of course, yeah, I'm going to shoot him. But,

00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:35.920
but I don't know something about that moment.

00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:39.900
Like I felt like his wife's right there. His

00:52:39.900 --> 00:52:42.880
kids are outside. He's been drinking too much.

00:52:44.019 --> 00:52:45.960
dinner still on their table i could see food

00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:47.619
on their table the kids toys on the floor his

00:52:47.619 --> 00:52:50.579
family pictures there i'm like i'm still in control

00:52:50.579 --> 00:52:54.460
like i could see that if he re if he tries to

00:52:54.460 --> 00:52:56.940
shoot me i'm i'm gonna you know my guns on him

00:52:56.940 --> 00:52:58.699
like i'm gonna shoot him so i felt like still

00:52:58.699 --> 00:53:00.619
in control and so i went from like please talking

00:53:00.619 --> 00:53:04.260
please dialogue to like i i put your gun down

00:53:04.260 --> 00:53:06.320
i'm gonna effing kill you like us i remember

00:53:06.320 --> 00:53:08.039
telling that like i'm gonna i'm gonna effing

00:53:08.039 --> 00:53:10.960
kill you and and he said again for me to leave

00:53:11.659 --> 00:53:13.440
and uh and he started coming towards me really

00:53:13.440 --> 00:53:16.920
fast and uh and so i ran towards him and i grabbed

00:53:16.920 --> 00:53:18.460
the barrel of his gun and pushed it away from

00:53:18.460 --> 00:53:21.320
from me uh to get that barrel pointed away from

00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:25.019
me and and i i kind of retained my gun and tight

00:53:25.019 --> 00:53:27.500
and i kicked him into nuts like not like a soccer

00:53:27.500 --> 00:53:29.480
kick but like a push kick to about to pull that

00:53:29.480 --> 00:53:33.159
gun away and uh and that nothing happened i mean

00:53:33.159 --> 00:53:36.420
he was six three 263 pounds so he's and i was

00:53:36.420 --> 00:53:39.090
probably like 130 pounds at the time But I'd

00:53:39.090 --> 00:53:41.110
been, you know, lifelong training. And at this

00:53:41.110 --> 00:53:43.849
time, I was training a lot. So, you know, I was

00:53:43.849 --> 00:53:45.349
doing a lot of Muay Thai and Brazilian Jiu -Jitsu.

00:53:45.429 --> 00:53:48.190
So I kicked him really hard. Second time I kicked

00:53:48.190 --> 00:53:51.969
him, I don't know how, but he grabbed my wrist.

00:53:52.349 --> 00:53:54.389
And so now me and this giant guy are fighting

00:53:54.389 --> 00:53:57.010
over two guns. He has my wrist with my gun in

00:53:57.010 --> 00:53:59.650
it. I have his barrel of his gun. And I knew

00:53:59.650 --> 00:54:01.349
in that moment, just looking at him and tussling

00:54:01.349 --> 00:54:03.150
around with him, like, he's not going to give

00:54:03.150 --> 00:54:05.889
up. He's not ever going to, you know, he's in

00:54:05.889 --> 00:54:09.679
this to. to, you know, to win. And so I kind

00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:11.840
of turned my wrist over and broke his grip and

00:54:11.840 --> 00:54:13.940
fired a single round right in the center of his

00:54:13.940 --> 00:54:18.880
chest. Like I seen it hit like the concussion

00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:22.420
hit in his chest and I fired five more rounds.

00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:24.920
So I fired six rounds right in the center of

00:54:24.920 --> 00:54:26.599
his chest. I didn't really know at the time,

00:54:26.639 --> 00:54:28.920
but Steve had already came in the room behind

00:54:28.920 --> 00:54:34.340
me and he fired right over my ear and he fired

00:54:34.340 --> 00:54:37.980
six rounds as well. We hit him 11 times out of

00:54:37.980 --> 00:54:41.360
12. I always say jokingly, although it's not

00:54:41.360 --> 00:54:44.800
funny, but I didn't drop the round. So me and

00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:47.139
Steve always joked about who dropped the round

00:54:47.139 --> 00:54:49.559
and forensics ended up proving that it was him.

00:54:50.199 --> 00:54:55.000
But yeah, it was the weirdest thing because as

00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:57.679
I started shooting, we could have a whole nother

00:54:57.679 --> 00:54:59.800
conversation about the physiological effects

00:54:59.800 --> 00:55:01.119
of being in a shooting like that. I remember

00:55:01.119 --> 00:55:05.079
watching my gun function, seeing the casings

00:55:05.079 --> 00:55:07.949
roll out. hearing the mechanics of the gun steve's

00:55:07.949 --> 00:55:09.889
steve's gum was against my ear with obviously

00:55:09.889 --> 00:55:11.809
no ear pro in and i could hear just like pops

00:55:11.809 --> 00:55:15.389
but i never heard a bang my eardrums never got

00:55:15.389 --> 00:55:17.170
blown out i could hear people talking about 30

00:55:17.170 --> 00:55:18.670
feet behind me and know everything they were

00:55:18.670 --> 00:55:21.809
saying so i had audio exclusion but i had clear

00:55:21.809 --> 00:55:24.429
clear hearing which is i think miraculous how

00:55:24.429 --> 00:55:26.510
the human body works that way i could even hear

00:55:26.510 --> 00:55:28.130
the mechanics of his gun functioning and everything

00:55:28.130 --> 00:55:30.369
slowed down like but in a way that you could

00:55:30.369 --> 00:55:35.300
think clear not like uh not like be you're bogged

00:55:35.300 --> 00:55:37.699
down by, by it. I was actually had super clear

00:55:37.699 --> 00:55:41.539
focus thought. And, uh, as his rounds, after

00:55:41.539 --> 00:55:44.719
those rounds hit Russell, he, uh, he dropped

00:55:44.719 --> 00:55:47.420
his knees and he, he looked right at me and conversationally,

00:55:47.420 --> 00:55:49.440
like he wasn't a pain or anything, just conversationally.

00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:51.960
He said, you killed me. And, uh, and then he

00:55:51.960 --> 00:55:54.360
turned and fell, he slumped over and fell. And,

00:55:54.360 --> 00:55:57.320
uh, cause he turned his back, he turned his back

00:55:57.320 --> 00:55:59.519
to me, fell down and I reached under, I kind

00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:02.880
of tackled him. Uh, reached under pulled his

00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:05.139
rifle out from under him to get it away and i

00:56:05.139 --> 00:56:06.900
pulled his arms behind him and as i'm pulling

00:56:06.900 --> 00:56:09.320
his arms behind him i think one of his wrists

00:56:09.320 --> 00:56:11.920
uh probably the one that had my grip him because

00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:13.619
when i broke my broke the grip i think his hand

00:56:13.619 --> 00:56:16.139
went in front of him and one of those rounds

00:56:16.139 --> 00:56:18.599
went through his wrist and so uh his wrist was

00:56:18.599 --> 00:56:20.219
like blown out and bleeding so we're trying to

00:56:20.219 --> 00:56:21.860
handcuff him and it was like slippery and noodle

00:56:21.860 --> 00:56:23.579
his wrist was like noodle because the bones were

00:56:23.579 --> 00:56:26.780
blown out and i had like short sleeves on and

00:56:26.780 --> 00:56:28.420
i remember just like handcuffing him and like

00:56:28.420 --> 00:56:33.099
slipping in the blood and and uh And then as

00:56:33.099 --> 00:56:35.539
I'm handcuffed, I hear other police cars coming.

00:56:36.179 --> 00:56:39.739
I look back and seen his wife holding the kids

00:56:39.739 --> 00:56:41.840
and just screaming. And I actually wanted to

00:56:41.840 --> 00:56:44.659
go to her. Even though she probably didn't want

00:56:44.659 --> 00:56:46.360
me to go to her, but I wanted to go to her because

00:56:46.360 --> 00:56:49.840
I was trying to help her. And I wanted to go

00:56:49.840 --> 00:56:52.300
to her. It was an instinct to comfort her. And

00:56:52.300 --> 00:56:55.360
then Steve's much more experienced than me. He's

00:56:55.360 --> 00:56:57.230
like, hey, let's just go. handcuffed him cleared

00:56:57.230 --> 00:56:59.389
him let's go clear the rest of the house we clear

00:56:59.389 --> 00:57:00.750
the rest of the house and by the time we cleared

00:57:00.750 --> 00:57:04.030
the rest of the house uh those you know places

00:57:04.030 --> 00:57:06.250
already blocked the doorway uh my supervisor

00:57:06.250 --> 00:57:10.590
came in they separated steve and i and uh and

00:57:10.590 --> 00:57:12.570
you know um that uh took us to the detective

00:57:12.570 --> 00:57:15.230
bureau took our guns away read us our rights

00:57:15.230 --> 00:57:18.610
interview interviewed us polygraphed us and then

00:57:18.610 --> 00:57:22.130
we ended up uh going home that night and then

00:57:22.130 --> 00:57:24.090
uh you know it ended up being a big deal remember

00:57:24.090 --> 00:57:26.269
chief called me the next morning and saying hey

00:57:26.269 --> 00:57:27.769
don't read the newspaper and of course i did

00:57:27.769 --> 00:57:30.710
the front news front of newspaper said said cold

00:57:30.710 --> 00:57:33.030
-blooded murder and uh and then it said please

00:57:33.030 --> 00:57:35.429
say justified like super small underneath and

00:57:35.429 --> 00:57:37.730
so i went through a process i went before grand

00:57:37.730 --> 00:57:41.670
jury uh i went before grand jury for a first

00:57:41.670 --> 00:57:44.449
degree a second degree murder indictment was

00:57:44.449 --> 00:57:46.590
cleared and then steve and i both got from the

00:57:46.590 --> 00:57:49.170
state of louisiana governor's award for meadow

00:57:49.170 --> 00:57:52.769
meadow valor um but uh it was still a mess and

00:57:52.769 --> 00:57:56.760
really really made me pretty cynical pretty cynical

00:57:56.760 --> 00:57:59.519
person at that time because um you know when

00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:01.980
a da da forced me to go before grand jury instead

00:58:01.980 --> 00:58:03.500
of taking a position on it because it was election

00:58:03.500 --> 00:58:06.579
year and it was you know pretty cynical and then

00:58:06.579 --> 00:58:09.619
the way the public responded to it you know it

00:58:09.619 --> 00:58:11.599
was just it made me a pretty cynical person for

00:58:11.599 --> 00:58:14.739
a while not understanding i mean you know what

00:58:14.739 --> 00:58:17.099
it really happened so i was super young too so

00:58:17.859 --> 00:58:19.380
Yeah, well, thank you for sharing that. There's

00:58:19.380 --> 00:58:20.820
a lot of people out there at the moment. I know

00:58:20.820 --> 00:58:22.699
there's some sitting in prison for doing the

00:58:22.699 --> 00:58:24.420
exact same thing that are police officers, you

00:58:24.420 --> 00:58:26.760
know, so and a lot of times, as you said, it

00:58:26.760 --> 00:58:28.500
aligns with someone's political career that made

00:58:28.500 --> 00:58:31.679
that choice. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was election

00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:33.800
year for the district attorney and he could ease.

00:58:33.900 --> 00:58:36.780
I mean, the evidence was so clear. I mean, especially

00:58:36.780 --> 00:58:40.159
forensic cabinets like was so clear when it happened,

00:58:40.280 --> 00:58:42.659
but he didn't want to politically make that statement

00:58:42.659 --> 00:58:44.639
himself. So he put it on. He put it in the public.

00:58:45.230 --> 00:58:47.449
to do a grand jury and it's always easier to

00:58:47.449 --> 00:58:49.010
put it in the public than a district attorney

00:58:49.010 --> 00:58:52.309
to make the decision and uh you know and you

00:58:52.309 --> 00:58:54.150
had you had witness statements saying i didn't

00:58:54.150 --> 00:58:56.829
understand you know how ptsd worked and and how

00:58:56.829 --> 00:58:58.550
people's traumatic experience worked to people

00:58:58.550 --> 00:59:01.010
but they had witness statements that people actually

00:59:01.010 --> 00:59:02.630
you could tell they went lying they believed

00:59:02.630 --> 00:59:04.510
what they were saying and they like they looked

00:59:04.510 --> 00:59:06.429
through a door and saw us standing over him with

00:59:06.429 --> 00:59:08.710
his back turned executing him and then we shot

00:59:08.710 --> 00:59:10.989
him 12 times in the back and i'm like how can

00:59:10.989 --> 00:59:13.010
people say that like you know in the grand jury

00:59:13.010 --> 00:59:16.530
they testified to that and uh and all the forensics

00:59:16.530 --> 00:59:18.210
showed that the bullets were all all through

00:59:18.210 --> 00:59:22.789
his chest and uh and so in that conflicting eyewitness

00:59:22.789 --> 00:59:24.530
statement some said we shot him in front i'm

00:59:24.530 --> 00:59:27.869
like so you know now i know that people hear

00:59:27.869 --> 00:59:31.030
gunshots then they look through the door and

00:59:31.030 --> 00:59:32.530
then they see him turned on his knees facing

00:59:32.530 --> 00:59:34.389
away from us and they in their mind it's all

00:59:34.389 --> 00:59:38.130
one one thing so yeah so i learned a lot about

00:59:38.130 --> 00:59:40.250
you know how things like that happen and it was

00:59:40.250 --> 00:59:42.000
uh but it was a difficult time to go through.

00:59:42.039 --> 00:59:43.659
It was scary. Cause I mean, man, politically,

00:59:43.800 --> 00:59:45.079
if you get indicted for that, you're going to

00:59:45.079 --> 00:59:48.099
jail. And, uh, and I'm like, I'm just trying

00:59:48.099 --> 00:59:49.679
to out here, trying to help, trying to serve,

00:59:49.820 --> 00:59:53.500
uh, you know, and, uh, you get put in jail for

00:59:53.500 --> 00:59:56.820
doing, you know, trying to help people. Absolutely.

00:59:56.980 --> 00:59:58.739
Yeah. There's a guy, uh, Ben Darby, who's a police

00:59:58.739 --> 01:00:00.639
officer who's in jail at the moment. And it was

01:00:00.639 --> 01:00:04.880
a suicidal guy. Um, the, the, the guy, you know,

01:00:04.900 --> 01:00:06.559
had a history. Actually, it turned out after

01:00:06.559 --> 01:00:08.380
supposedly had planned on killing a policeman

01:00:08.380 --> 01:00:11.039
that told someone this, but he starts, moving

01:00:11.039 --> 01:00:13.940
the weapon towards ben and his partner who's

01:00:13.940 --> 01:00:16.360
already kind of in the what they call it the

01:00:16.360 --> 01:00:18.860
the funnel of death or whatever the term is you

01:00:18.860 --> 01:00:21.920
know um and he ends up shooting him you know

01:00:21.920 --> 01:00:23.920
and now and it was the same kind of thing initially

01:00:23.920 --> 01:00:26.280
he was cleared and then they they went back and

01:00:26.280 --> 01:00:28.320
go oh actually you were a murderer and they threw

01:00:28.320 --> 01:00:30.739
the book at him and he's now in prison so yeah

01:00:30.739 --> 01:00:32.760
it's it's heartbreaking to hear i mean when there's

01:00:32.760 --> 01:00:34.900
people have done something wrong in uniform they

01:00:34.900 --> 01:00:38.480
should absolutely pay for it 100 But when they're

01:00:38.480 --> 01:00:40.480
put in a situation where they don't have a choice,

01:00:40.599 --> 01:00:42.820
but to take that action, that's a completely

01:00:42.820 --> 01:00:46.800
different conversation. All right. Well, then

01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:48.880
I want to bring you into Afghanistan so we can

01:00:48.880 --> 01:00:52.159
bring Aziz back into the conversation. So what

01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:54.119
I would love to do, I've had some of your fellow

01:00:54.119 --> 01:00:57.480
Marine recons on. Rudy Reyes is one of them.

01:00:57.559 --> 01:01:00.300
Major James Capers, who's incredible Vietnam,

01:01:00.599 --> 01:01:03.059
you know, era recon, one of the original recon

01:01:03.059 --> 01:01:07.690
Marines. But what I like to do is this. For the

01:01:07.690 --> 01:01:10.369
average civilian, in America especially, we get

01:01:10.369 --> 01:01:14.670
a very polarized view of war. It's either they're

01:01:14.670 --> 01:01:17.190
all a bunch of baby killers or it's, you know,

01:01:17.190 --> 01:01:19.090
kill them all let God sort them out. And the

01:01:19.090 --> 01:01:21.170
reality is our men and women are sent overseas

01:01:21.170 --> 01:01:23.550
to try and help people who are being oppressed

01:01:23.550 --> 01:01:26.260
in their own country. And so it's very important

01:01:26.260 --> 01:01:28.960
that we hear, you know, the kind of pros and

01:01:28.960 --> 01:01:31.179
the cons, if you like, of that. So the first

01:01:31.179 --> 01:01:32.940
part of the conversation, you've already obviously

01:01:32.940 --> 01:01:35.219
been through a huge amount of trauma in your

01:01:35.219 --> 01:01:37.199
own childhood. Then you've worked in uniform

01:01:37.199 --> 01:01:40.460
in multiple positions and seen and done things

01:01:40.460 --> 01:01:44.400
then. When you got to Afghanistan, regardless

01:01:44.400 --> 01:01:46.639
of the politics, I mean, obviously, you know,

01:01:46.659 --> 01:01:49.940
9 -11 was a pretty significant event. But aside

01:01:49.940 --> 01:01:52.460
from that, regardless of what sent you over there,

01:01:52.599 --> 01:01:55.340
was there a moment where you realized that in

01:01:55.340 --> 01:01:58.320
that country, there were atrocities and, you

01:01:58.320 --> 01:01:59.880
know, some horrendous people that need to be

01:01:59.880 --> 01:02:03.980
taken care of? Yeah, you know, I had a very unique

01:02:03.980 --> 01:02:06.920
job, like Aziz was saying, you know, I was a

01:02:06.920 --> 01:02:09.099
force recon Marine, but I, you know, I didn't

01:02:09.099 --> 01:02:11.579
deploy in that traditional sense. I was, I, I

01:02:11.579 --> 01:02:14.619
was selected to go to a JSOC task force, a joint

01:02:14.619 --> 01:02:16.500
special operations command task force with one,

01:02:16.559 --> 01:02:19.559
the premier. you know in my opinion the premier

01:02:19.559 --> 01:02:21.679
special operations unit in the world so i was

01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:23.860
extremely privileged to go to this unit and uh

01:02:23.860 --> 01:02:26.860
and my job there was the afo advanced force operator

01:02:26.860 --> 01:02:29.219
which means i worked in a singleton capacity

01:02:29.219 --> 01:02:30.920
the best way i know how to describe it to people

01:02:30.920 --> 01:02:33.239
listening is probably like undercover cop and

01:02:33.239 --> 01:02:36.400
uh to go ahead of my unit and do build all the

01:02:36.400 --> 01:02:38.219
clandestine infrastructure to put our soldiers

01:02:38.219 --> 01:02:40.420
on target to capture kill bad guys so when you

01:02:40.420 --> 01:02:43.659
see you know guys going to unpermissive area

01:02:43.659 --> 01:02:47.670
uh and kicking a door and capture, kill a bad

01:02:47.670 --> 01:02:49.710
guy, they didn't get there by accident. Somebody

01:02:49.710 --> 01:02:51.389
was there on the ground before them setting that

01:02:51.389 --> 01:02:53.030
whole operation up and building a clandestine

01:02:53.030 --> 01:02:54.409
infrastructure to put them on the ground. That's

01:02:54.409 --> 01:02:57.809
the AFOs. And so you will usually work by yourself

01:02:57.809 --> 01:03:00.829
or with a teammate. And so my job was working

01:03:00.829 --> 01:03:03.550
with Aziz. A lot of times people ask, man, how'd

01:03:03.550 --> 01:03:05.070
you work with the same interpreter for eight

01:03:05.070 --> 01:03:06.909
deployments? It's because of the nature of that

01:03:06.909 --> 01:03:09.489
job. We had the rapport. So Aziz and I worked

01:03:09.489 --> 01:03:13.449
alone together a lot. A lot. And and so I think

01:03:13.449 --> 01:03:14.989
when we were done operating, I didn't go back

01:03:14.989 --> 01:03:16.909
to base and he went home like I was with him.

01:03:16.969 --> 01:03:19.150
We lived out in community together. So that gave

01:03:19.150 --> 01:03:22.570
me a very unique opportunity to learn who the

01:03:22.570 --> 01:03:25.929
Taliban was, what Aziz and people like Aziz had

01:03:25.929 --> 01:03:29.090
been through before America got there and learning

01:03:29.090 --> 01:03:31.289
atrocities. They were under the oppression of

01:03:31.289 --> 01:03:34.530
Taliban and put them under the. The the things

01:03:34.530 --> 01:03:37.329
that they do to women, not just that, you know,

01:03:37.329 --> 01:03:38.909
you think, oh, it's terrible. They won't let

01:03:38.909 --> 01:03:40.949
them go to go to school and be educated. That's

01:03:40.949 --> 01:03:43.250
very much the least of the things that they have

01:03:43.250 --> 01:03:44.989
to deal with. You know, being forced to live

01:03:44.989 --> 01:03:47.289
in a home. And I heard Afghan women saying, if

01:03:47.289 --> 01:03:48.809
you just pretend to be like an aunt, then the

01:03:48.809 --> 01:03:51.190
house will seem bigger. Right. Like like the

01:03:51.190 --> 01:03:53.369
thought of being imprisoned in your own home

01:03:53.369 --> 01:03:55.849
for your whole your whole life and then being

01:03:55.849 --> 01:03:59.679
sexually. you know, sexually forced into marriage

01:03:59.679 --> 01:04:02.739
or as a nine -year -old girl to a 50 -year -old

01:04:02.739 --> 01:04:05.579
guy and being forced to be sexually enslaved

01:04:05.579 --> 01:04:07.739
for your whole life and your parents, your own

01:04:07.739 --> 01:04:10.980
parents sold you for, you know, 500 bucks to

01:04:10.980 --> 01:04:13.599
this 50 -year -old man. I mean, imagine like

01:04:13.599 --> 01:04:15.519
what that life would be like. So the Taliban,

01:04:15.739 --> 01:04:17.780
this is the things the Taliban put on them, beating

01:04:17.780 --> 01:04:23.659
women for reading a book, you know, or for accidentally.

01:04:24.349 --> 01:04:25.989
Their sleeve accidentally came up and they showed

01:04:25.989 --> 01:04:27.409
their wrist and they're not going to get beaten.

01:04:28.289 --> 01:04:31.329
Raping them because they made themselves seem

01:04:31.329 --> 01:04:34.389
promiscuous. So now it's okay for a man to rape

01:04:34.389 --> 01:04:36.389
them. And now their whole life's ruined. Their

01:04:36.389 --> 01:04:38.750
whole family will abandon them because of this.

01:04:39.130 --> 01:04:42.829
So I really began to understand who the Taliban

01:04:42.829 --> 01:04:45.610
was, the sexual molestation, little boys and

01:04:45.610 --> 01:04:48.869
little girls. And Aziz really exposed me to that.

01:04:49.010 --> 01:04:51.449
I mean, there's a part in the book talking about

01:04:51.449 --> 01:04:55.179
the killing pool. The way that started, and I

01:04:55.179 --> 01:04:56.340
actually wrote about it in two different books

01:04:56.340 --> 01:04:58.820
because it was so profound to me. I wrote about

01:04:58.820 --> 01:05:00.400
it in my book, An Unfair Advantage, and in a

01:05:00.400 --> 01:05:03.480
new book, Saving Aziz. But in 2004, there was

01:05:03.480 --> 01:05:05.320
a presidential election between President Bush

01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:09.940
and John Kerry. And Aziz invited me over to the

01:05:09.940 --> 01:05:12.820
election party. And I'm like, you guys have an

01:05:12.820 --> 01:05:16.860
election party? Like for the US election? This

01:05:16.860 --> 01:05:18.420
thing was like a Super Bowl party in the United

01:05:18.420 --> 01:05:21.389
States. Like I've never seen Americans. Hold

01:05:21.389 --> 01:05:23.510
an election party like this. And by the way,

01:05:23.510 --> 01:05:25.030
just like pre Donald Trump, but people didn't

01:05:25.030 --> 01:05:27.329
get crazy about presidential elections. Like

01:05:27.329 --> 01:05:29.409
this was like a really big deal. And I was like

01:05:29.409 --> 01:05:31.489
blown away that these guys would have like family

01:05:31.489 --> 01:05:34.429
over food. They're glued to TV. And I'm like,

01:05:34.449 --> 01:05:36.710
what are they so interested in this for? Well,

01:05:36.750 --> 01:05:39.489
they were worried that John Kerry will get elected,

01:05:39.550 --> 01:05:42.030
that they would pull U .S. troops out of Afghanistan,

01:05:42.110 --> 01:05:44.809
just like what happened in 2021. And the Taliban

01:05:44.809 --> 01:05:47.590
would come back in. So it may be it may be first

01:05:47.590 --> 01:05:51.050
realized. the impact that a strong or weak America

01:05:51.050 --> 01:05:54.429
has on the world. We think about a strong or

01:05:54.429 --> 01:05:56.289
weak America's national defense and our commander

01:05:56.289 --> 01:05:58.750
in chief, what it does for us in the United States,

01:05:58.789 --> 01:06:01.429
but the impact we have on the world. It was my

01:06:01.429 --> 01:06:03.650
first glimpse of that, how worried they were

01:06:03.650 --> 01:06:10.019
about our national policy. Watching President

01:06:10.019 --> 01:06:12.079
Bush win and seeing how excited everyone was

01:06:12.079 --> 01:06:13.699
and people start dancing and eating food. And

01:06:13.699 --> 01:06:15.659
that's what Afghans do when they're excited to

01:06:15.659 --> 01:06:19.559
dance and eat food. Well, the good guys do. The

01:06:19.559 --> 01:06:24.079
bad guys start shooting things. But I remember

01:06:24.079 --> 01:06:25.539
talking to Aziz about it and just blown away

01:06:25.539 --> 01:06:27.659
by it. He wanted to show me. So he took me to

01:06:27.659 --> 01:06:32.199
this apartment building in town where when Taliban

01:06:32.199 --> 01:06:34.800
was in charge, they would go and a lot of women,

01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:36.900
single women lived there. They would go there

01:06:36.900 --> 01:06:39.480
and do kind of like a prison inspection, you

01:06:39.480 --> 01:06:42.659
know, turning over the cots and inspecting for

01:06:42.659 --> 01:06:44.820
contraband. And they would rape women there.

01:06:44.940 --> 01:06:46.460
And women would throw themselves off of this

01:06:46.460 --> 01:06:48.739
roof because they didn't want to be raped, including

01:06:48.739 --> 01:06:51.679
one of Aziz's relatives that he had told me about

01:06:51.679 --> 01:06:54.559
that had threw herself off the roof there just

01:06:54.559 --> 01:06:56.920
not to be raped by the Taliban. And that level

01:06:56.920 --> 01:06:59.300
of oppression, you know, imagine, you know, that

01:06:59.300 --> 01:07:01.019
level of oppression. People talk about, you know,

01:07:01.019 --> 01:07:03.750
that in America. Where you have little girls

01:07:03.750 --> 01:07:05.289
throwing themselves off of roofs because they

01:07:05.289 --> 01:07:08.349
don't want to face their enforcers. And then

01:07:08.349 --> 01:07:11.469
he took me to this place right – I had a house,

01:07:11.489 --> 01:07:14.989
and across the street was this hill. And on top

01:07:14.989 --> 01:07:17.590
of this hill was this Russian -built swimming

01:07:17.590 --> 01:07:20.309
pool that the Soviets had built there where they

01:07:20.309 --> 01:07:21.809
would practice. It was an Olympic pool. They

01:07:21.809 --> 01:07:24.769
would practice for the Olympic Games there. High

01:07:24.769 --> 01:07:29.010
dive towers, and it was drained. And as I remember

01:07:29.010 --> 01:07:30.989
Aziz and I walking up, some kids scurried off.

01:07:31.659 --> 01:07:35.260
And, uh, there was a, the top, uh, top platform

01:07:35.260 --> 01:07:38.619
was a steel cable hung through, which was a noose

01:07:38.619 --> 01:07:42.559
to hang people from. Uh, and then you go down

01:07:42.559 --> 01:07:45.260
in the pool and, uh, and both ends, they're like

01:07:45.260 --> 01:07:47.000
riddled with thousands of bullet holes. And you

01:07:47.000 --> 01:07:48.920
can, I took my, my Leatherman out and pulled

01:07:48.920 --> 01:07:51.119
some casings out. And you know, that those casings

01:07:51.119 --> 01:07:53.940
went through people's bodies or heads and there

01:07:53.940 --> 01:07:56.300
were mass executions done in this pool. And as

01:07:56.300 --> 01:07:57.579
you said, you know how they would hang people

01:07:57.579 --> 01:07:59.420
there and they would throw people off the top.

01:08:00.170 --> 01:08:02.409
the top like garbage and killed them right in

01:08:02.409 --> 01:08:04.250
front of their families and you know this is

01:08:04.250 --> 01:08:06.630
where mass executions happen and uh and i remember

01:08:06.630 --> 01:08:09.889
just like my whole perspective changing when

01:08:09.889 --> 01:08:12.610
aziz showed me this like i went there because

01:08:12.610 --> 01:08:16.050
a angry american rightfully angry that uh people

01:08:16.050 --> 01:08:19.270
came to our country and flew two airplanes in

01:08:19.270 --> 01:08:21.229
the world trade center buildings and killed you

01:08:21.229 --> 01:08:23.289
know thousands of americans that they they attacked

01:08:23.289 --> 01:08:25.170
our pentagon and flew a plane into our pentagon

01:08:25.170 --> 01:08:27.069
which is you know to me should be one of the

01:08:27.069 --> 01:08:29.640
most protected places on the on the planet And

01:08:29.640 --> 01:08:33.500
so that's why I went there. But when Aziz exposed

01:08:33.500 --> 01:08:35.359
me to what the Afghan people had been through,

01:08:35.500 --> 01:08:37.920
my perspective really changed. I think I matured

01:08:37.920 --> 01:08:40.119
a lot that day to realize, you know, America's

01:08:40.119 --> 01:08:42.279
place in this world is not just to protect our

01:08:42.279 --> 01:08:44.539
country, but because of that strength, we have

01:08:44.539 --> 01:08:46.340
this responsibility to help people that can't

01:08:46.340 --> 01:08:49.380
help themselves. Those Afghan people aren't in

01:08:49.380 --> 01:08:50.880
a position to help themselves. And so we had

01:08:50.880 --> 01:08:54.840
an opportunity to not only make America a safer

01:08:54.840 --> 01:08:57.899
place. protect these people who have been truly

01:08:57.899 --> 01:09:00.880
oppressed by the Taliban regime and give them

01:09:00.880 --> 01:09:05.140
the opportunity to live safe lives. I don't believe

01:09:05.140 --> 01:09:06.439
in America being the world police, but when we

01:09:06.439 --> 01:09:08.359
have an opportunity like that, we should execute

01:09:08.359 --> 01:09:13.239
it. And men like Aziz, who came back to Afghanistan

01:09:13.239 --> 01:09:15.399
when he was safe in Dubai, came back to Afghanistan

01:09:15.399 --> 01:09:19.140
to build a country where his daughters could

01:09:19.140 --> 01:09:21.659
go to school and be free and his daughters could

01:09:21.659 --> 01:09:23.770
live a life. to where they're not going to be

01:09:23.770 --> 01:09:25.930
forced to be raped their whole life. And I was

01:09:25.930 --> 01:09:27.710
there when his oldest son, Mashoud, was born

01:09:27.710 --> 01:09:30.329
and his oldest daughter, Mashouda, was born.

01:09:30.409 --> 01:09:33.069
And to see him as a father, and I was a father

01:09:33.069 --> 01:09:34.829
at the time too, like see him as a father, say,

01:09:34.869 --> 01:09:36.449
I don't want my daughter to go through this.

01:09:36.729 --> 01:09:38.810
I'm willing to go out there in the mountains

01:09:38.810 --> 01:09:41.470
with you and do these operations because I want

01:09:41.470 --> 01:09:44.170
it for free. He wasn't looking for a meal ticket

01:09:44.170 --> 01:09:46.829
to America. He's here because he has to be, but

01:09:46.829 --> 01:09:49.289
he wanted a free Afghanistan. He was fighting

01:09:49.289 --> 01:09:52.130
for it. And he's one example of so many brave

01:09:52.130 --> 01:09:54.890
Afghans who fought for the freedom. And I tell

01:09:54.890 --> 01:09:57.010
you, one of the things that during the evacuations

01:09:57.010 --> 01:09:59.789
that got under my skin the most was when the

01:09:59.789 --> 01:10:02.130
president of the United States got on the news

01:10:02.130 --> 01:10:04.949
and stood behind a microphone and said, how can

01:10:04.949 --> 01:10:06.569
we help these people when they won't fight for

01:10:06.569 --> 01:10:09.310
themselves? That was the most disrespectful and

01:10:09.310 --> 01:10:12.829
put fire in my vein statement One, he's never

01:10:12.829 --> 01:10:18.130
been there, but 60 ,000 Afghans like Aziz died

01:10:18.130 --> 01:10:20.390
in the last 20 years fighting for their country

01:10:20.390 --> 01:10:22.689
to protect their country and fight for freedom.

01:10:22.770 --> 01:10:25.770
60 ,000 brave Afghans chose not to be on the

01:10:25.770 --> 01:10:27.430
Taliban side where it would have been easy. They

01:10:27.430 --> 01:10:29.630
chose to be on the side of the resistance to

01:10:29.630 --> 01:10:31.069
fight for their daughters and fight for their

01:10:31.069 --> 01:10:32.550
freedom and fight for their freedom in their

01:10:32.550 --> 01:10:34.909
country. And that's just the ones that put on

01:10:34.909 --> 01:10:36.789
the uniform. That's not the hundreds of thousands

01:10:36.789 --> 01:10:39.369
of Afghan civilians that died. I mean, that's

01:10:39.369 --> 01:10:42.010
equivalent like. per capita ratio, like our civil

01:10:42.010 --> 01:10:44.770
war, uh, they, they bravely fought for their

01:10:44.770 --> 01:10:47.409
country and, uh, and they didn't quit and lay

01:10:47.409 --> 01:10:50.750
down their arms. We quit on them. And, uh, I

01:10:50.750 --> 01:10:53.390
mean, you wonder like, how could they turn this,

01:10:53.470 --> 01:10:55.569
this videos of Afghans, like crying, having to

01:10:55.569 --> 01:10:57.729
turn their rifles over. I mean, they're not out

01:10:57.729 --> 01:11:00.050
on deployment in another country, their fam,

01:11:00.130 --> 01:11:01.810
their wives and kids are down the street. Like

01:11:01.810 --> 01:11:05.189
if they fight when. They had their air resource

01:11:05.189 --> 01:11:07.010
taken away. They had the entire strength of the

01:11:07.010 --> 01:11:09.250
international community that was fighting the

01:11:09.250 --> 01:11:11.090
Taliban and supporting and advising them that

01:11:11.090 --> 01:11:13.329
was taken away overnight. If they keep fighting,

01:11:13.489 --> 01:11:14.810
it's not just them that's going to get killed.

01:11:15.090 --> 01:11:17.569
Most of those guys would fight to the death.

01:11:17.609 --> 01:11:20.350
I know because I've been there. But they're going

01:11:20.350 --> 01:11:22.550
to watch their wives be stuck in wood chippers

01:11:22.550 --> 01:11:24.470
and their daughters be raped in front of them.

01:11:25.449 --> 01:11:28.210
We did that to them. We forced. We quit. They

01:11:28.210 --> 01:11:32.900
didn't quit. And so, you know, for any. Afghan

01:11:32.900 --> 01:11:35.020
interpreter listening or people still, these

01:11:35.020 --> 01:11:37.220
guys still, I know, and people that were there

01:11:37.220 --> 01:11:39.560
know that they did, they were brave warriors

01:11:39.560 --> 01:11:42.020
and willing to fight till the end. And it wasn't

01:11:42.020 --> 01:11:43.520
us. It wasn't them that quit. It was, you know,

01:11:43.520 --> 01:11:47.039
it was our government, not us. I'll say our government

01:11:47.039 --> 01:11:50.180
that quit on them. And, you know, and by heart,

01:11:50.199 --> 01:11:52.479
always be apologetic to that as an American.

01:11:53.060 --> 01:11:55.460
Well, I mean, thank you. Like I said, this is

01:11:55.460 --> 01:11:57.039
what we need to hear. These are the stories.

01:11:57.079 --> 01:11:59.109
This is what I've always kind of really. hated

01:11:59.109 --> 01:12:01.189
is oh we're at war with afghanistan no we're

01:12:01.189 --> 01:12:03.229
not at war with afghanistan there are extremists

01:12:03.229 --> 01:12:05.630
in afghanistan murdering their own people that

01:12:05.630 --> 01:12:08.289
our men and women are trying to help you know

01:12:08.289 --> 01:12:12.270
liberate so aziz from your perspective as as

01:12:12.270 --> 01:12:14.630
we've learned now you had the opportunity to

01:12:14.630 --> 01:12:17.430
not be in afghanistan you deliberately ran towards

01:12:17.430 --> 01:12:20.750
danger again to go and be part of the solution

01:12:20.750 --> 01:12:24.149
in your own country so walk me through your journey

01:12:24.149 --> 01:12:27.369
back from dubai back to afghanistan And then

01:12:27.369 --> 01:12:29.949
through an Afghani's eyes, the Americans and

01:12:29.949 --> 01:12:32.149
the other allied nations coming into your country

01:12:32.149 --> 01:12:34.489
and then kind of your experience of those few

01:12:34.489 --> 01:12:40.850
years. Well, as I said before, from the childhood,

01:12:41.029 --> 01:12:44.829
I was really interested to see my country. uh

01:12:44.829 --> 01:12:49.090
grow and uh you know the step towards modernization

01:12:49.090 --> 01:12:52.829
especially when i was in dubai i saw these beautiful

01:12:52.829 --> 01:12:56.930
buildings and the roads the infrastructure everything

01:12:56.930 --> 01:13:02.109
was so nice and well uh done in united arab emirates

01:13:02.109 --> 01:13:05.390
i mean the whole thing and then uh compared to

01:13:05.390 --> 01:13:09.640
my country i became more and more uh interested

01:13:09.640 --> 01:13:12.939
and convinced that if there is ever an opportunity

01:13:12.939 --> 01:13:19.859
to help my country become similar to Dubai, I

01:13:19.859 --> 01:13:23.640
would give all kinds of sacrifice to that one.

01:13:23.840 --> 01:13:31.720
And as soon as the catastrophic attack happened

01:13:31.720 --> 01:13:34.680
the 9 -11 on the United States when it happened

01:13:34.680 --> 01:13:38.659
and I noticed the United States military presence

01:13:38.659 --> 01:13:42.399
in a prisons in Afghanistan I Called my father

01:13:42.399 --> 01:13:44.800
and I told him what should I do? He's like hey,

01:13:44.859 --> 01:13:47.579
man You didn't learn all that English for no

01:13:47.579 --> 01:13:50.760
reason for nothing. So this is your time. This

01:13:50.760 --> 01:13:53.939
is your chance You need to come back. I'm like

01:13:53.939 --> 01:13:57.399
I cannot come back to them the way that I came

01:13:57.399 --> 01:14:01.640
because I used the boat and the gulf waters and

01:14:01.640 --> 01:14:06.180
you know uh we got uh marked them to united arab

01:14:06.180 --> 01:14:09.579
emirates by the pakistani and iranian border

01:14:09.579 --> 01:14:13.100
police and it was so risky to take those rounds

01:14:13.100 --> 01:14:16.460
again and then he's like okay just walk to them

01:14:16.460 --> 01:14:18.619
one of the police stations and tell them everything

01:14:18.619 --> 01:14:20.659
tell them the truth and they will probably send

01:14:20.659 --> 01:14:24.060
you and that's what i did and i came as soon

01:14:24.060 --> 01:14:27.899
as i came i took the opportunity I joined the

01:14:27.899 --> 01:14:35.079
3rd US Special Forces Battalion in Kabul Military

01:14:35.079 --> 01:14:38.819
Training Center. I was not only an interpreter,

01:14:39.079 --> 01:14:42.659
I was a cultural advisor to them, I was a business

01:14:42.659 --> 01:14:46.039
consultant, and I was almost like a teammate

01:14:46.039 --> 01:14:50.989
because every... thing that they did I was physically

01:14:50.989 --> 01:14:54.329
beside them I was doing the interpretation translation

01:14:54.329 --> 01:14:58.550
and advising them because sometimes for those

01:14:58.550 --> 01:15:01.930
that they use military soldiers sometimes they

01:15:01.930 --> 01:15:04.109
didn't understand like for example when they

01:15:04.109 --> 01:15:07.529
were going to intervene in one of the neighborhood

01:15:07.529 --> 01:15:10.770
areas where they wanted to do house searches

01:15:10.770 --> 01:15:13.210
you know like I was explaining that this is how

01:15:13.210 --> 01:15:16.340
we need to approach this is uh good these are

01:15:16.340 --> 01:15:19.140
bad these are the consequences different consequences

01:15:19.140 --> 01:15:22.880
i was explaining to them and i took that as an

01:15:22.880 --> 01:15:28.180
opportunity to fight for freedom for human rights

01:15:28.180 --> 01:15:33.479
children's rights women right and overall peace

01:15:33.479 --> 01:15:38.039
and democracy and stability, which was my hope

01:15:38.039 --> 01:15:41.600
and my desire to see it for Afghanistan. And

01:15:41.600 --> 01:15:46.600
it worked really nice with the help of the different

01:15:46.600 --> 01:15:49.939
projects of the United States through USAID,

01:15:50.239 --> 01:15:53.159
through U .S. military, through U .S. embassy,

01:15:53.279 --> 01:15:56.800
and other private and government projects that

01:15:56.800 --> 01:15:59.949
were going on. Like the first thing the United

01:15:59.949 --> 01:16:02.949
States did to Afghanistan when they were there,

01:16:03.090 --> 01:16:07.090
they imported electricity from Uzbekistan to

01:16:07.090 --> 01:16:12.949
Afghanistan. 85 % of the country benefited from

01:16:12.949 --> 01:16:16.750
that electricity. The roads were constructed,

01:16:17.229 --> 01:16:20.789
the highways were paved, the schools were opened.

01:16:21.250 --> 01:16:27.149
We were growing really fast and really nice because

01:16:27.149 --> 01:16:32.479
of the keen... interest of the Afghan men and

01:16:32.479 --> 01:16:36.699
women for democracy and peace for humanity. We

01:16:36.699 --> 01:16:42.180
almost had like 66 TV channels, which is very

01:16:42.180 --> 01:16:46.000
unique in the history of Afghanistan. All those

01:16:46.000 --> 01:16:50.819
TVs were equipped with many different reporters

01:16:50.819 --> 01:16:55.300
and all kinds of resources and equipments. And

01:16:55.300 --> 01:16:59.619
their job was to promote peace stability democracy

01:16:59.619 --> 01:17:05.600
and raise awareness among all those people that

01:17:05.600 --> 01:17:09.460
are kept in the darkness for many different decades

01:17:09.460 --> 01:17:13.239
in afghanistan through the civil wars so we had

01:17:13.239 --> 01:17:18.949
over 100 something reviews that were also broadcasting

01:17:18.949 --> 01:17:23.010
and helping and promoting peace, stability and

01:17:23.010 --> 01:17:27.109
democracy, enduring freedom. And as well as,

01:17:27.109 --> 01:17:29.590
you know, the army was growing really fast. The

01:17:29.590 --> 01:17:33.449
police was growing. The Afghan National Department

01:17:33.449 --> 01:17:37.550
of Security was growing really hard. It became,

01:17:37.949 --> 01:17:41.670
the Afghan military became a unique and strong

01:17:41.670 --> 01:17:45.600
military in the region. by the help of the United

01:17:45.600 --> 01:17:50.079
States military that even Iran or the neighbor

01:17:50.079 --> 01:17:53.119
countries like Pakistan, like Tajikistan, like

01:17:53.119 --> 01:17:56.600
Uzbekistan, they were feeling a pity because

01:17:56.600 --> 01:17:59.199
they could not compete with these soldiers. They

01:17:59.199 --> 01:18:03.100
were that strong. They were that interested and

01:18:03.100 --> 01:18:06.739
growing. Everything comes from the faith, from

01:18:06.739 --> 01:18:11.869
the interest, from the... brightness and open

01:18:11.869 --> 01:18:15.270
minds. And all these open -minded Afghans, they

01:18:15.270 --> 01:18:18.050
were helping each other and we were growing.

01:18:18.189 --> 01:18:20.869
But unfortunately, as Chad mentioned before,

01:18:21.029 --> 01:18:24.390
that because of the big decision by President

01:18:24.390 --> 01:18:28.050
Biden, we lost everything. On the other hand,

01:18:28.109 --> 01:18:30.689
if you look at it, Afghanistan's government,

01:18:30.949 --> 01:18:34.930
the very young democracy in Afghanistan, that

01:18:34.930 --> 01:18:38.420
was all... dependent, it was not independent,

01:18:38.699 --> 01:18:41.460
it was dependent on the United States financial

01:18:41.460 --> 01:18:45.800
aid, the United States military support, and

01:18:45.800 --> 01:18:49.079
all these other different projects that were

01:18:49.079 --> 01:18:52.239
there from the European communities, from the

01:18:52.239 --> 01:18:54.739
international community, from the United States.

01:18:55.460 --> 01:19:00.560
But, you know, I'm not sure why, but it happened,

01:19:00.840 --> 01:19:05.550
a big decision. changed everything. And also,

01:19:05.789 --> 01:19:09.689
it's not only the United States decision, it's

01:19:09.689 --> 01:19:14.810
also the corrupt Afghan leaders that were unfortunately

01:19:14.810 --> 01:19:20.449
put in the process, in the leadership. Some people

01:19:20.449 --> 01:19:24.010
that they had two passports, they were not Afghans,

01:19:24.010 --> 01:19:26.689
they had American passports, they had passports

01:19:26.689 --> 01:19:29.189
from European countries, they had passports from

01:19:29.189 --> 01:19:32.590
neighboring countries. they were somehow through

01:19:32.590 --> 01:19:35.609
their network, through their connections, brought

01:19:35.609 --> 01:19:39.029
and put in the leadership. And this was also

01:19:39.029 --> 01:19:43.529
one of the main weakness that the government

01:19:43.529 --> 01:19:47.850
collapsed immediately because if the leadership

01:19:47.850 --> 01:19:52.909
was chosen from the original Afghans, the Afghans

01:19:52.909 --> 01:19:56.729
like interpreters, like all those soldiers that

01:19:56.729 --> 01:20:01.069
nights and days. They were there defending their

01:20:01.069 --> 01:20:05.229
homeland. If the leadership was chosen from those

01:20:05.229 --> 01:20:10.170
category, I assure you that we would not be the

01:20:10.170 --> 01:20:13.689
witness of this shameful failure in Afghanistan

01:20:13.689 --> 01:20:17.170
because all these people like President Ghani,

01:20:17.170 --> 01:20:20.430
President Karzai was involved in many different...

01:20:21.379 --> 01:20:24.619
smuggling of poppies. His brothers were involved.

01:20:24.859 --> 01:20:29.760
Ghani has a very bad, corrupt history. When he

01:20:29.760 --> 01:20:34.199
was the finance minister in Afghanistan, there

01:20:34.199 --> 01:20:36.520
were some reports that he stole a lot of money

01:20:36.520 --> 01:20:38.579
from the Ministry of Finance, and he did the

01:20:38.579 --> 01:20:41.760
same thing while at the end of his presidency

01:20:41.760 --> 01:20:44.260
in Afghanistan, when he was running away from

01:20:44.260 --> 01:20:50.890
the country. There was no such a pure Clean Afghan

01:20:50.890 --> 01:20:54.250
leadership on the top. We really needed a leadership

01:20:54.250 --> 01:20:57.050
that it broke from two sides on one hand the

01:20:57.050 --> 01:21:01.130
withdrawal of the US military prisons and the

01:21:01.130 --> 01:21:04.670
stop of the Financial aid for them on the other

01:21:04.670 --> 01:21:07.930
hand the weakness and the crap leader of Afghanistan

01:21:07.930 --> 01:21:11.649
It caused all this damage and all these in the

01:21:11.649 --> 01:21:17.430
chain of command all these lower Management like

01:21:17.430 --> 01:21:21.010
army like you know that uh several institutions

01:21:21.010 --> 01:21:26.369
they they failed very quickly so uh there were

01:21:26.369 --> 01:21:31.789
uh lots of improvements happening in the country

01:21:31.789 --> 01:21:36.529
uh even though with all that uh crap uh leadership

01:21:36.529 --> 01:21:39.189
that was there it was improving every day it

01:21:39.189 --> 01:21:44.380
was improving if president biden kept like at

01:21:44.380 --> 01:21:48.220
least 1 ,000 soldiers in one of the bases like

01:21:48.220 --> 01:21:51.279
Bagram Air Base, which is very strategic for

01:21:51.279 --> 01:21:55.060
the United States also and for Afghanistan. I

01:21:55.060 --> 01:21:58.100
assure you that the government would still continue

01:21:58.100 --> 01:22:03.439
and because everything was really nice and well

01:22:03.439 --> 01:22:07.260
instructed and built for them. Everything was

01:22:07.260 --> 01:22:09.479
running really nice and neat. The military could

01:22:09.479 --> 01:22:13.869
only Be there just to show their presence. Inside

01:22:13.869 --> 01:22:17.329
the base, the Afghan army, police, and India

01:22:17.329 --> 01:22:21.449
was capable of controlling the front lines without

01:22:21.449 --> 01:22:25.489
the international military presence on the front

01:22:25.489 --> 01:22:28.829
lines. The only thing that the Afghan army needed

01:22:28.829 --> 01:22:32.430
at that time was the maintenance of their air

01:22:32.430 --> 01:22:36.109
force because they didn't have the technicians

01:22:36.109 --> 01:22:39.920
and experts like after. every plane went and

01:22:39.920 --> 01:22:42.079
did the mission and came back they needed some

01:22:42.079 --> 01:22:47.859
maintenance and there were lots of hopes interest

01:22:47.859 --> 01:22:51.579
and there were hundreds of thousands of afghan

01:22:51.579 --> 01:22:55.640
men and women that loved the country and they

01:22:55.640 --> 01:22:59.500
were working from the deep of their heart but

01:22:59.500 --> 01:23:04.800
you know maybe god's plan was different and we

01:23:04.800 --> 01:23:07.670
lost everything Well, I'm going to jump over

01:23:07.670 --> 01:23:09.729
to Chad for a moment, Aziz, because I know he's

01:23:09.729 --> 01:23:12.550
got to go, but we can carry on after we let him

01:23:12.550 --> 01:23:16.609
kind of close up on his side. So, Chad, I would

01:23:16.609 --> 01:23:20.369
love to hear your perspective of, you know, realizing

01:23:20.369 --> 01:23:22.750
that there was this horrendous withdrawal. I

01:23:22.750 --> 01:23:25.789
mean, you know, the actual decision to at some

01:23:25.789 --> 01:23:29.770
point have to put a, you know, a terminology

01:23:29.770 --> 01:23:32.310
and ending to a particular conflict. Obviously,

01:23:32.409 --> 01:23:35.579
you know. May have to happen if we're not progressing

01:23:35.579 --> 01:23:37.680
from a certain other country's perspective. But

01:23:37.680 --> 01:23:39.619
how we do that is another entire conversation.

01:23:40.220 --> 01:23:43.239
So we have this mass withdrawal. We left so many

01:23:43.239 --> 01:23:45.659
of these incredible men and women that have supported

01:23:45.659 --> 01:23:49.020
their own country and ours as well. Talk to me

01:23:49.020 --> 01:23:52.079
about that withdrawal. Save our allies, Tim Kennedy.

01:23:52.720 --> 01:23:55.119
Although the amazing people that you're around

01:23:55.119 --> 01:24:01.150
and your kind of lens on trying to. basically

01:24:01.150 --> 01:24:02.829
rescue this incredible man that you've worked

01:24:02.829 --> 01:24:06.109
alongside for all these deployments? Yeah, I

01:24:06.109 --> 01:24:07.750
think, you know, by now, hopefully everybody

01:24:07.750 --> 01:24:10.069
realizes how special of a human being Aziz is.

01:24:10.989 --> 01:24:13.649
And, you know, he'll work in the capacity we

01:24:13.649 --> 01:24:15.369
did. You know, he saved my life multiple times.

01:24:15.470 --> 01:24:17.250
I've watched him. I mean, he just got, I think,

01:24:17.250 --> 01:24:19.510
is the highest award any Afghans ever got from

01:24:19.510 --> 01:24:22.430
the United States. Aziz just got an award from

01:24:22.430 --> 01:24:25.590
Congress for his. role uh we nominated him for

01:24:25.590 --> 01:24:27.670
rescuing four navy seals that were trapped behind

01:24:27.670 --> 01:24:31.630
enemy lines and uh you know uh myself and him

01:24:31.630 --> 01:24:33.689
and some other people went and did that and you

01:24:33.689 --> 01:24:36.229
know as he's led that effort and uh you know

01:24:36.229 --> 01:24:38.050
it's pretty pretty sketchy pretty sketchy night

01:24:38.050 --> 01:24:40.390
and uh he put his that was just one example i

01:24:40.390 --> 01:24:42.029
mean that was one we were able to talk about

01:24:42.029 --> 01:24:43.770
where he was you know put his life on the line

01:24:43.770 --> 01:24:46.090
again he saved my life like three times tangibly

01:24:46.090 --> 01:24:48.350
but probably saved my life every day like don't

01:24:48.350 --> 01:24:50.729
walk there don't eat that don't talk to that

01:24:50.729 --> 01:24:52.890
person don't don't speak right now are they gonna

01:24:52.890 --> 01:24:55.220
kill us Like, you know, he saved my life every

01:24:55.220 --> 01:24:58.439
day. And he not only was my teammate, but my

01:24:58.439 --> 01:25:01.779
friend. And, you know, him, his family, they're

01:25:01.779 --> 01:25:04.060
very close to me. And I consider them family.

01:25:04.619 --> 01:25:06.760
And we had been trying for six years to get him

01:25:06.760 --> 01:25:09.319
out through that very broken immigration process

01:25:09.319 --> 01:25:11.359
called the SIV, Special Immigrant Visa Process.

01:25:11.720 --> 01:25:13.979
It's only supposed to take nine months. But in

01:25:13.979 --> 01:25:15.539
his case, it was six years for someone who did

01:25:15.539 --> 01:25:19.380
15 years in special operations community, vetted,

01:25:19.539 --> 01:25:22.699
polygraphed, accessed the top secret information.

01:25:23.350 --> 01:25:25.010
Six years and not getting through that. It's

01:25:25.010 --> 01:25:26.670
supposed to take nine months. It's a broken system.

01:25:27.250 --> 01:25:29.250
And so when I seen the withdrawal happening back

01:25:29.250 --> 01:25:31.729
in as early as April, I'm like, we got to get

01:25:31.729 --> 01:25:35.029
Aziz, his wife and six kids and start putting

01:25:35.029 --> 01:25:37.590
some efforts together. But by the time June rolled

01:25:37.590 --> 01:25:40.670
around, we knew like this is going to have this

01:25:40.670 --> 01:25:42.470
is happening faster than we expected. We're going

01:25:42.470 --> 01:25:44.270
to have to go in now and get them. We had tried

01:25:44.270 --> 01:25:47.289
a couple of like traditional like efforts immigration

01:25:47.289 --> 01:25:49.829
wise, not just through the State Department,

01:25:49.869 --> 01:25:53.449
but through United Arab Emirates. And it just

01:25:53.449 --> 01:25:55.630
wasn't happening. So we're going to have to go

01:25:55.630 --> 01:25:59.170
get him. So I started calling some people at

01:25:59.170 --> 01:26:02.510
late July, August, and said, we'll put a team

01:26:02.510 --> 01:26:04.770
together to go get him. One of the first people

01:26:04.770 --> 01:26:07.810
I called was Tim Kennedy. Not because of the

01:26:07.810 --> 01:26:10.149
Tim Kennedy that everybody knows publicly wise,

01:26:10.310 --> 01:26:13.890
but because I was looking for some specific qualifications

01:26:13.890 --> 01:26:17.529
for the guys I called. One is that they had AFO

01:26:17.529 --> 01:26:20.310
or ASO level training, meaning they had the ability

01:26:20.310 --> 01:26:22.970
to operate independently. and had that experience

01:26:22.970 --> 01:26:24.789
and training. That was one. I was looking for

01:26:24.789 --> 01:26:26.890
special operations guys with that. Two, I was

01:26:26.890 --> 01:26:28.689
looking for mature special operations guys that

01:26:28.689 --> 01:26:31.010
had been in combat and wasn't looking to go out

01:26:31.010 --> 01:26:33.229
and get some. They weren't looking to go sow

01:26:33.229 --> 01:26:35.569
their wild oats. They had no ego, nothing left

01:26:35.569 --> 01:26:37.390
to prove. They had already been around because

01:26:37.390 --> 01:26:40.029
this wasn't a combat mission, as opposed to what

01:26:40.029 --> 01:26:41.430
some people might have looked at us doing and

01:26:41.430 --> 01:26:43.890
thought this wasn't a cowboy operation. This

01:26:43.890 --> 01:26:45.850
would have to be a very mature, calculated, and

01:26:45.850 --> 01:26:48.210
planned operation to work with multinational

01:26:48.210 --> 01:26:50.989
efforts in our U .S. government. the belt to

01:26:50.989 --> 01:26:55.109
go and do this. And I didn't want anything bad

01:26:55.109 --> 01:26:57.050
to happen because some immature person was trying

01:26:57.050 --> 01:26:59.569
to, you know, fill their wild oats and have some

01:26:59.569 --> 01:27:01.750
kind of angst towards the Taliban. There wasn't

01:27:01.750 --> 01:27:04.670
a time and place for it. And then with Tim specifically,

01:27:04.850 --> 01:27:06.750
I knew I was going to have to raise a lot of

01:27:06.750 --> 01:27:08.470
money. Ultimately, we ended up spending about

01:27:08.470 --> 01:27:11.149
$30 million. So, like, I needed somebody else

01:27:11.149 --> 01:27:13.569
that could help be a public face for it. Tim

01:27:13.569 --> 01:27:15.270
had all those criteria. So he's one of the first

01:27:15.270 --> 01:27:18.109
people I called. A lot of people, you know, I

01:27:18.109 --> 01:27:20.949
think Joe Roberts, I can mention his name, Recon

01:27:20.949 --> 01:27:25.510
Marine. We had some SEALs there. Sean G, I can't

01:27:25.510 --> 01:27:27.710
say his full name. Sea Spray, if you've seen

01:27:27.710 --> 01:27:30.750
the documentary Sea Spray. So guys from Green

01:27:30.750 --> 01:27:35.590
Berets, CIA's Ground Branch, really experienced

01:27:35.590 --> 01:27:38.420
guys. And as we're planning to go get Aziza's

01:27:38.420 --> 01:27:40.300
family, one of the guys said, hey, this group

01:27:40.300 --> 01:27:42.479
of 3 ,500 orphans. And so it was a moment where

01:27:42.479 --> 01:27:45.399
we kind of paused and said, man, like getting

01:27:45.399 --> 01:27:47.359
them would be great, but we need to get, we have

01:27:47.359 --> 01:27:50.300
the amazing group of talent that are willing

01:27:50.300 --> 01:27:53.180
and feel burdened to go help. Let's get as many

01:27:53.180 --> 01:27:56.359
Americans, interpreters, their families, women,

01:27:56.500 --> 01:27:58.279
children, Christians that'd be persecuted. Let's

01:27:58.279 --> 01:28:00.560
get as many people as we can. And I think that

01:28:00.560 --> 01:28:02.739
was a call that we felt everybody there, I think

01:28:02.739 --> 01:28:05.270
is pretty strong people of faith. We all felt

01:28:05.270 --> 01:28:07.170
like God had burdened our heart to go help. And,

01:28:07.189 --> 01:28:09.250
uh, and I think that, that obedience to say,

01:28:09.329 --> 01:28:11.250
okay, yes, we're going to do it. Not knowing

01:28:11.250 --> 01:28:15.850
exactly how, uh, being honest, uh, we knew we

01:28:15.850 --> 01:28:17.710
had experience, but you know, the plan, like

01:28:17.710 --> 01:28:19.489
we're going to do this impossible thing that

01:28:19.489 --> 01:28:21.069
some doors got to open that we don't have any

01:28:21.069 --> 01:28:23.170
control open. So they had an element of faith

01:28:23.170 --> 01:28:25.449
there beyond that, that decision of obedience,

01:28:25.649 --> 01:28:28.390
uh, to do that, to meet that burden on our hearts.

01:28:28.430 --> 01:28:30.989
I think we, we witnessed a sheer miracle and

01:28:30.989 --> 01:28:33.149
I won't preach to everybody, but I will say that,

01:28:33.229 --> 01:28:36.199
uh, It was certainly in my perspective, a divine

01:28:36.199 --> 01:28:38.619
miracle, because what happened in the next three

01:28:38.619 --> 01:28:41.119
days after the decision was something that I'm

01:28:41.119 --> 01:28:43.119
not capable of or smart enough of or can't even

01:28:43.119 --> 01:28:46.939
explain. Sarah Verardo got in touch with the

01:28:46.939 --> 01:28:51.039
Joint Chiefs. The Joint Chiefs love or hate General

01:28:51.039 --> 01:28:53.640
Milley. I know most people probably in the military

01:28:53.640 --> 01:28:56.079
community don't like General Milley, but he gave

01:28:56.079 --> 01:28:58.859
us permission to get to go on that airport. and

01:28:58.859 --> 01:29:00.779
be the only civilians there in the airport to

01:29:00.779 --> 01:29:03.600
be able to go off base and do a civilian evacuation.

01:29:04.100 --> 01:29:05.979
So we got that door. That is an impossible door

01:29:05.979 --> 01:29:08.560
to open, by the way, that in itself. Secondly,

01:29:08.680 --> 01:29:13.460
they agreed to take our manifest and approve

01:29:13.460 --> 01:29:16.220
them to be able to move people out. So now we

01:29:16.220 --> 01:29:18.800
had the ability for the United States military.

01:29:19.609 --> 01:29:21.670
the Joint Chiefs to allow us on the airport and

01:29:21.670 --> 01:29:23.569
then approve our manifest, which by the way,

01:29:23.609 --> 01:29:25.289
the DOD planes flying out didn't get approved

01:29:25.289 --> 01:29:27.810
manifest, the NGOs we had to, which is really

01:29:27.810 --> 01:29:29.270
good, you know, that we're not flying out any

01:29:29.270 --> 01:29:31.130
random person. And I know a lot of people are

01:29:31.130 --> 01:29:32.869
concerned, and I was too, that we're bringing

01:29:32.869 --> 01:29:34.329
out people that we know who know who they are.

01:29:34.489 --> 01:29:37.609
All of our groups, we knew the SIVs, P1, P2 visas

01:29:37.609 --> 01:29:40.470
are legitimately orphans or widows or Christians.

01:29:40.569 --> 01:29:42.430
I mean, personally, like pretty legitimate validation

01:29:42.430 --> 01:29:45.590
of all our people that we got out. In addition,

01:29:47.449 --> 01:29:49.409
In addition, I think a lot of people had said,

01:29:49.470 --> 01:29:51.729
it's like a cowboy effort. Like we're going in

01:29:51.729 --> 01:29:53.390
there and getting away in the military. If anybody

01:29:53.390 --> 01:29:55.149
paused with common sense for a moment and said,

01:29:55.189 --> 01:29:58.409
do this group of veterans, how would it be possible

01:29:58.409 --> 01:30:00.729
for us to go in a military DOD controlled airport,

01:30:00.869 --> 01:30:03.689
go outside the wire, rescue people, load them

01:30:03.689 --> 01:30:06.210
with C -17 airplanes and fly them? Like that's

01:30:06.210 --> 01:30:08.510
not even possible. So the thought that we would

01:30:08.510 --> 01:30:12.279
like cowboyishly go and. and force our way onto

01:30:12.279 --> 01:30:14.899
a DOD controlled airport in the middle of a war

01:30:14.899 --> 01:30:17.619
zone and evacuate people. It's just ludicrous

01:30:17.619 --> 01:30:19.020
that people would even think that. But people

01:30:19.020 --> 01:30:21.840
thought that made the accusation. It was very

01:30:21.840 --> 01:30:23.300
coordinated with the United States government

01:30:23.300 --> 01:30:27.220
and a legitimate effort that was all done in

01:30:27.220 --> 01:30:30.840
cooperation with the United States DOD and the

01:30:30.840 --> 01:30:34.619
Joint Chiefs. So that was one miracle, in my

01:30:34.619 --> 01:30:37.279
opinion. Two, if you're going to bring someone

01:30:37.279 --> 01:30:41.300
outside of the... a country without a visa you

01:30:41.300 --> 01:30:43.520
can't bring them somewhere without any kind of

01:30:43.520 --> 01:30:45.939
permissions or that's human trafficking so you

01:30:45.939 --> 01:30:47.859
have to have permission so we called uh some

01:30:47.859 --> 01:30:49.720
connections we had at the united arab emirates

01:30:49.720 --> 01:30:51.340
the royal family we asked them for permission

01:30:51.340 --> 01:30:55.699
to be able to get on the airport uh onto the

01:30:55.699 --> 01:30:58.020
uh into uae and they offered us their humanitarian

01:30:58.020 --> 01:31:01.399
center uh and doctors and everything we would

01:31:01.399 --> 01:31:02.939
have never thought of in a humanitarian center

01:31:02.939 --> 01:31:04.460
and say we're gonna roll out the right carpet

01:31:04.460 --> 01:31:06.520
if you get these people here we're gonna take

01:31:06.520 --> 01:31:08.729
care of them And then the State Department would

01:31:08.729 --> 01:31:10.569
have to move them on from there. We're not bringing

01:31:10.569 --> 01:31:12.029
people to America. We're bringing people to a

01:31:12.029 --> 01:31:14.430
lily pad place. The State Department's responsibility

01:31:14.430 --> 01:31:17.109
to say yes or no to America or any other country

01:31:17.109 --> 01:31:19.630
they would go to. So that was another miracle

01:31:19.630 --> 01:31:21.590
that we've seen happen. And then the UAE came

01:31:21.590 --> 01:31:23.829
back and said, in addition to that, we're going

01:31:23.829 --> 01:31:25.909
to give you a C -17 plane. If you fill it up,

01:31:25.909 --> 01:31:28.210
we'll give you a second one. uh and the pilots

01:31:28.210 --> 01:31:29.750
to do it and we're going to let you have access

01:31:29.750 --> 01:31:32.909
to a operation center to run your operation out

01:31:32.909 --> 01:31:35.170
of so they rolled out the red carpet for us amazing

01:31:35.170 --> 01:31:37.949
people at the uae and the royal family so big

01:31:37.949 --> 01:31:40.510
thanks to them and definitely go out of them

01:31:40.510 --> 01:31:42.350
way to say thank you in the book you know in

01:31:42.350 --> 01:31:44.850
the book that we have uh with them and then uh

01:31:44.850 --> 01:31:46.949
then the last thing that i thought was just crazy

01:31:46.949 --> 01:31:49.430
was that was that after all that happened the

01:31:49.430 --> 01:31:51.989
next day glenn beck calls me and the only weapon

01:31:51.989 --> 01:31:54.569
that glenn beck has is a microphone right and

01:31:54.569 --> 01:31:57.119
uh you know and he has a big one And he just

01:31:57.119 --> 01:31:58.539
wanted to do something like a lot of people.

01:31:58.579 --> 01:31:59.800
He just wanted to do something. He did what he

01:31:59.800 --> 01:32:01.359
knew how to do. And he went on the radio and

01:32:01.359 --> 01:32:03.300
asked for support. And he thought he'd get a

01:32:03.300 --> 01:32:05.340
couple of thousand dollars. Well, he got $21

01:32:05.340 --> 01:32:08.819
million in like three days. And then he ultimately

01:32:08.819 --> 01:32:10.520
got like $40 something million. And he called

01:32:10.520 --> 01:32:13.859
me up and was like, hey, we got this money that

01:32:13.859 --> 01:32:15.300
we just raised and we don't have an operation.

01:32:16.600 --> 01:32:19.640
can you, what can we do? And so I said, we can

01:32:19.640 --> 01:32:21.640
buy planes, we can rent, you know, pay for planes.

01:32:22.159 --> 01:32:24.760
And so he put a guy named Rudy Atala in touch

01:32:24.760 --> 01:32:27.300
with me and Rudy's amazing guy, military veteran

01:32:27.300 --> 01:32:29.520
and specializes in this kind of stuff. And we

01:32:29.520 --> 01:32:31.199
worked together and was able to pay for a lot

01:32:31.199 --> 01:32:32.760
of planes. So all those things, like I said,

01:32:32.859 --> 01:32:34.779
any one of those things would have went wrong

01:32:34.779 --> 01:32:36.420
and would not been able to do this. Everything

01:32:36.420 --> 01:32:39.279
came together in a small window of time. And

01:32:39.279 --> 01:32:41.060
a guy just opened these doors that allowed us

01:32:41.060 --> 01:32:42.500
the opportunity to go in and help. And we went

01:32:42.500 --> 01:32:46.149
in. I was in Abu Dhabi doing operations side.

01:32:46.529 --> 01:32:48.449
We had a ground team at the airport in Kabul

01:32:48.449 --> 01:32:52.029
going out. Some U .S. military personnel, special

01:32:52.029 --> 01:32:53.869
operations personnel was even able to work with

01:32:53.869 --> 01:32:56.970
us. That's who actually grabbed Aziz for us.

01:32:57.909 --> 01:33:00.529
Amazing guys from the U .S. Air Force special

01:33:00.529 --> 01:33:02.770
operations were able to grab Aziz and we write

01:33:02.770 --> 01:33:05.689
about it in a book. And we got Aziz's family

01:33:05.689 --> 01:33:07.670
out that day, about 180 people. The next day,

01:33:07.689 --> 01:33:09.789
we got 800 people. The next day, like a thousand

01:33:09.789 --> 01:33:11.850
people. And honestly, it was all a blur because.

01:33:12.399 --> 01:33:14.039
Our team in Abu Dhabi, our team in the States,

01:33:14.279 --> 01:33:17.079
our team at the airport in Kabul, no one slept.

01:33:17.279 --> 01:33:18.819
Because if you stop to sleep like five minutes,

01:33:19.060 --> 01:33:20.960
like somebody's dying because you're sleeping.

01:33:21.079 --> 01:33:23.579
So it was like sleeping and kind of nodding off

01:33:23.579 --> 01:33:25.359
when you could. But it was like nonstop. I mean,

01:33:25.399 --> 01:33:28.220
sea spray lost 37 pounds in 10 days, just not

01:33:28.220 --> 01:33:29.880
stopping on the ground, moving, grabbing people.

01:33:30.359 --> 01:33:33.600
And when the Abbey Gate was blown up and 13 of

01:33:33.600 --> 01:33:36.840
our service members died that day, the gates

01:33:36.840 --> 01:33:38.699
were all shut and the evacuations were over.

01:33:39.199 --> 01:33:41.739
uh at the airport and we realized we had got

01:33:41.739 --> 01:33:45.140
out like 12 000 people and at that moment the

01:33:45.140 --> 01:33:48.340
u .s military had to leave and we realized we

01:33:48.340 --> 01:33:49.539
didn't we didn't have to leave like we're not

01:33:49.539 --> 01:33:51.039
in the military we don't have to leave we could

01:33:51.039 --> 01:33:53.640
stay and uh the news was reporting there was

01:33:53.640 --> 01:33:55.520
100 americans still there that's what the white

01:33:55.520 --> 01:33:57.720
house said we knew on the ground and this isn't

01:33:57.720 --> 01:34:00.020
a political debate like i'm telling you firsthand

01:34:00.020 --> 01:34:01.920
there were thousands of americans still there

01:34:01.920 --> 01:34:04.619
and uh but it doesn't matter if they were the

01:34:04.619 --> 01:34:06.119
white house said there's 100 or we said there's

01:34:06.119 --> 01:34:08.949
a thousand one american left behind us is, is,

01:34:08.949 --> 01:34:12.010
is one too many. Like you, we don't leave Americans

01:34:12.010 --> 01:34:14.010
behind where I come from. Like even some traitor

01:34:14.010 --> 01:34:16.250
idiot, like Joe Bird doll, like we knew we were

01:34:16.250 --> 01:34:17.909
going to lose people's lives to go rescue him.

01:34:17.989 --> 01:34:21.430
But if Americans left behind their, their choice

01:34:21.430 --> 01:34:23.510
or not, like you will scorch the earth around

01:34:23.510 --> 01:34:25.350
them to go get them. That's like the promise

01:34:25.350 --> 01:34:27.510
that the American people have, uh, when they

01:34:27.510 --> 01:34:29.409
were abroad in dangerous places. And, uh, so

01:34:29.409 --> 01:34:31.550
we chose to stay and we ended up working with

01:34:31.550 --> 01:34:33.609
a lot of other amazing nonprofits over the next

01:34:33.609 --> 01:34:35.899
two months. at a place called Mazar Sharif and

01:34:35.899 --> 01:34:38.720
flew out another 5 ,000 people, totaled the evacuation

01:34:38.720 --> 01:34:42.819
that we were part of at 17 ,000 people. And then

01:34:42.819 --> 01:34:48.180
we knew there was still more to do. All the Afghans

01:34:48.180 --> 01:34:49.439
had moved to a place called the Panjshir Valley

01:34:49.439 --> 01:34:51.859
where Ahmad Massoud's son was leading a resistance

01:34:51.859 --> 01:34:54.760
and they felt safe there. And they were trying

01:34:54.760 --> 01:34:57.579
to cross into Tajikistan, but if anybody geographically

01:34:57.579 --> 01:34:59.460
familiar with that area, there's like 25 ,000

01:34:59.460 --> 01:35:02.020
foot peaks. And if you made it through there,

01:35:02.100 --> 01:35:03.500
like a family would take like a week to make

01:35:03.500 --> 01:35:04.779
it through those mountains, those valleys to

01:35:04.779 --> 01:35:06.779
get to the border. Well, if you made it there

01:35:06.779 --> 01:35:07.819
and didn't know where you were going, you might

01:35:07.819 --> 01:35:09.880
end up at a thousand foot cliff. Or the Panjshir

01:35:09.880 --> 01:35:13.220
River is like category five in some points. Slushy,

01:35:13.220 --> 01:35:15.100
like, I mean, when I say slushy, like the water

01:35:15.100 --> 01:35:18.159
is so cold that it stops and freezes. So navigating

01:35:18.159 --> 01:35:20.539
that geographically is difficult, maybe impossible.

01:35:21.579 --> 01:35:23.859
Then you have the Taliban controlling that border

01:35:23.859 --> 01:35:27.760
with checkpoints every mile. And then. And then

01:35:27.760 --> 01:35:29.779
you had the Chinese military on that border keeping

01:35:29.779 --> 01:35:31.840
people in Afghanistan. You had the Russian military.

01:35:32.199 --> 01:35:35.800
And I mean, we they were the border was saturated.

01:35:35.920 --> 01:35:38.020
And then you had Tajikistan border police. So

01:35:38.020 --> 01:35:40.180
that border was very difficult to cross. So we

01:35:40.180 --> 01:35:41.979
said they're never going to be able to cross

01:35:41.979 --> 01:35:44.399
this. But one more thing we can do is we can

01:35:44.399 --> 01:35:46.659
go on the other side and do it, you know, kind

01:35:46.659 --> 01:35:48.600
of a traditional recon, a forced recon job. We

01:35:48.600 --> 01:35:50.300
can do route reconnaissance on that other side

01:35:50.300 --> 01:35:52.890
or affording. forwarding routes which means going

01:35:52.890 --> 01:35:55.069
across and looking at how to cross rivers that's

01:35:55.069 --> 01:35:57.510
a forwarding site report we can provide that

01:35:57.510 --> 01:35:59.489
information so we decided to put a small two

01:35:59.489 --> 01:36:02.109
-man team together myself and uh staff sergeant

01:36:02.109 --> 01:36:05.010
dennis price who was just got off active duty

01:36:05.010 --> 01:36:07.449
uh was like the perfect guy for me for the job

01:36:07.449 --> 01:36:11.449
he had served at jsoc he was a four -shoe com

01:36:11.449 --> 01:36:13.609
marine of the year a couple of times scout sniper

01:36:13.609 --> 01:36:16.069
like taught scout snipers that like he taught

01:36:16.069 --> 01:36:19.039
like all over the world, even taught Army SF

01:36:19.039 --> 01:36:20.819
sniper school, which is like, I think, the only

01:36:20.819 --> 01:36:23.859
non -SF guy to teach there. Very highly skilled

01:36:23.859 --> 01:36:26.560
scout sniper, which we didn't need a sniper,

01:36:26.680 --> 01:36:28.359
but the skill sets that come with a guy like

01:36:28.359 --> 01:36:31.760
that is really high level. And so I asked his

01:36:31.760 --> 01:36:33.180
command, because I knew his commander, Lieutenant

01:36:33.180 --> 01:36:36.180
Colonel Tommy Waller, I said, Can you guys cut

01:36:36.180 --> 01:36:37.760
Staff Sergeant Price loose for a humanitarian

01:36:37.760 --> 01:36:39.840
effort? Because, you know, the military wasn't

01:36:39.840 --> 01:36:41.260
allowed to participate. And he said, I don't

01:36:41.260 --> 01:36:43.439
know, let's put it in writing. And we did. And

01:36:43.439 --> 01:36:45.680
another miracle, the Marine Corps let him come

01:36:45.680 --> 01:36:48.899
with us. And, you know, and he came with me and

01:36:48.899 --> 01:36:50.800
the two of us flew into Tajikistan and we spent

01:36:50.800 --> 01:36:53.060
10 days on that border doing about 90 miles of

01:36:53.060 --> 01:36:55.520
border reconnaissance. At nighttime, we would,

01:36:55.579 --> 01:36:58.890
once we identified a crossing, we would. swim

01:36:58.890 --> 01:37:01.310
across the panjshir river in afghanistan and

01:37:01.310 --> 01:37:03.689
build the routes on both sides and provide that

01:37:03.689 --> 01:37:05.850
information reports some of our government intelligence

01:37:05.850 --> 01:37:08.789
agencies that wanted that information non -government

01:37:08.789 --> 01:37:10.609
organizations like non -profits that were doing

01:37:10.609 --> 01:37:13.210
evacuations and then to the afghan people stuck

01:37:13.210 --> 01:37:15.729
in the panjshir valley and so their commandos

01:37:15.729 --> 01:37:18.159
could lead them out across We did that for about

01:37:18.159 --> 01:37:20.699
10 days. And I mean, the border was saturated

01:37:20.699 --> 01:37:23.680
with foreign intelligence units and Chinese special

01:37:23.680 --> 01:37:26.680
operations and Russians and Tajiks. And on the

01:37:26.680 --> 01:37:28.920
other side, the Taliban checkpoints everywhere.

01:37:29.239 --> 01:37:31.840
I mean, at times we were about within 30 yards

01:37:31.840 --> 01:37:37.899
of Taliban. And and, you know, but, you know,

01:37:37.899 --> 01:37:39.739
we were able to provide some. Really, really

01:37:39.739 --> 01:37:42.020
incredible intelligence to be able to get people

01:37:42.020 --> 01:37:45.439
out safely. And as that wrapped up, that kind

01:37:45.439 --> 01:37:48.119
of ended our efforts and the most that we could

01:37:48.119 --> 01:37:50.600
do. I mean, it still is heartbreaking because

01:37:50.600 --> 01:37:52.800
there's so many people. 70 ,000 people sounds

01:37:52.800 --> 01:37:54.699
like a lot, but there's 40 million people in

01:37:54.699 --> 01:37:56.460
Afghanistan and 20 million women and children

01:37:56.460 --> 01:37:57.939
that are still going to be persecuted and sexually

01:37:57.939 --> 01:38:00.670
enslaved. And, you know, I think of these 20

01:38:00.670 --> 01:38:02.810
million women and we could have did so much more.

01:38:02.850 --> 01:38:04.770
And right now I still get emails every day, people

01:38:04.770 --> 01:38:06.729
begging, like literally begging, voice clubs

01:38:06.729 --> 01:38:08.930
begging, like, please, my family's being killed.

01:38:08.989 --> 01:38:10.970
And I wish there was more that we could do. And

01:38:10.970 --> 01:38:12.689
we've done everything that we can so far. And

01:38:12.689 --> 01:38:14.529
our State Department has really just blocked

01:38:14.529 --> 01:38:17.750
us from being able to help anymore. And so I

01:38:17.750 --> 01:38:21.529
thought all this belonged in a kind of journal

01:38:21.529 --> 01:38:24.590
to tell the American people in the world, not

01:38:24.590 --> 01:38:26.149
just American people in the world, what really

01:38:26.149 --> 01:38:29.180
happened. uh in afghanistan i tried to write

01:38:29.180 --> 01:38:31.619
it in a non -biased political way i'm a super

01:38:31.619 --> 01:38:33.140
conservative dude but i didn't want to make it

01:38:33.140 --> 01:38:35.439
a political attack job in the white house but

01:38:35.439 --> 01:38:37.539
you know it's just kind of the truth kind of

01:38:37.539 --> 01:38:39.840
falls that way uh but it's just the truth of

01:38:39.840 --> 01:38:41.659
what happened and it's my story with disease

01:38:41.659 --> 01:38:44.960
uh the evacuations and uh we put it all in the

01:38:44.960 --> 01:38:47.359
book i have amazing publisher thomas nelson harper

01:38:47.359 --> 01:38:50.039
collins and we and uh so the book is i don't

01:38:50.039 --> 01:38:52.859
know when this is dropping but saving aziz uh

01:38:52.859 --> 01:38:54.899
had a mission to save help one turned into calling

01:38:54.899 --> 01:38:58.920
to save thousands It's January 17th. The book

01:38:58.920 --> 01:39:01.579
drops, but you can pre -order it on Amazon or

01:39:01.579 --> 01:39:05.199
any bookstore has it. It is being made into a

01:39:05.199 --> 01:39:08.739
motion picture film. I really don't care about

01:39:08.739 --> 01:39:10.899
any of that other than people need to know the

01:39:10.899 --> 01:39:15.079
truth about what happened so it never happens

01:39:15.079 --> 01:39:18.420
again. One, for the sake of the national security

01:39:18.420 --> 01:39:20.479
of America because we need allies around the

01:39:20.479 --> 01:39:25.579
world who's going to depend on us. Two, We just

01:39:25.579 --> 01:39:27.220
can't do that. We gave up the most strategic

01:39:27.220 --> 01:39:29.239
place on the globe between Iraq, Iran, Russia,

01:39:29.319 --> 01:39:30.899
and China. That wasn't ours to give away. It

01:39:30.899 --> 01:39:33.699
was the entire international community's effort

01:39:33.699 --> 01:39:35.979
that was supporting and advising the Afghan national

01:39:35.979 --> 01:39:37.720
army and Afghan national police, you know, British

01:39:37.720 --> 01:39:40.479
and Germany and Canada. Everybody was doing the

01:39:40.479 --> 01:39:41.939
right thing and working in a total international

01:39:41.939 --> 01:39:44.319
coalition to keep terrorism not being in the

01:39:44.319 --> 01:39:47.079
mountains of Afghanistan. We had 2 ,500 troops

01:39:47.079 --> 01:39:50.340
there at one time. We still have 80 ,000 troops

01:39:50.340 --> 01:39:52.800
in Japan since World War II and 35 ,000 in South

01:39:52.800 --> 01:39:55.279
Korea and 40 ,000 in Germany. Why did we need

01:39:55.279 --> 01:39:57.060
to leave the most strategic place on the globe

01:39:57.060 --> 01:40:00.340
to turn that strategic location over to our enemies,

01:40:00.539 --> 01:40:04.979
Iran, China, Pakistan's ISI, Russia? I mean,

01:40:05.000 --> 01:40:07.119
why did we have to turn this place over? It was

01:40:07.119 --> 01:40:10.829
completely political, cost American lives. and

01:40:10.829 --> 01:40:12.810
abandoned our allies and weakened our security

01:40:12.810 --> 01:40:14.409
in the world and made the world a much more dangerous

01:40:14.409 --> 01:40:16.750
place. And so the war needs no truth about that.

01:40:16.829 --> 01:40:18.970
And by the way, the book was spent five months

01:40:18.970 --> 01:40:22.489
at the Pentagon to get the DOD review and got

01:40:22.489 --> 01:40:27.229
redacted. But nonetheless, I didn't take any

01:40:27.229 --> 01:40:29.590
of the redactions out. So you'll see all the

01:40:29.590 --> 01:40:31.970
black lines stayed in it. So the American people

01:40:31.970 --> 01:40:34.439
and the people of the world could see. When the

01:40:34.439 --> 01:40:37.699
government doesn't want them to see. Well, Chad,

01:40:37.819 --> 01:40:39.180
I want to thank you so much. I know you've got

01:40:39.180 --> 01:40:41.180
to leave us now. I would love to actually do

01:40:41.180 --> 01:40:43.260
a part two with you because we didn't even really

01:40:43.260 --> 01:40:46.420
scrape the surface of not only the military side

01:40:46.420 --> 01:40:48.699
for you, but also martial arts and some of these

01:40:48.699 --> 01:40:51.840
other areas, mental health, Mighty Oaks. Anytime.

01:40:51.960 --> 01:40:53.920
Let's come back on and do it again. I apologize

01:40:53.920 --> 01:40:57.399
that I have to go to another one, but I would

01:40:57.399 --> 01:40:59.600
love to come back on anytime. Aziz is free, so

01:40:59.600 --> 01:41:02.920
Aziz can talk. for everyone this absolutely well

01:41:02.920 --> 01:41:05.079
thank you so much so i'll go back to you then

01:41:05.079 --> 01:41:09.680
aziz um so again here you are six years of trying

01:41:09.680 --> 01:41:13.060
to you know get to the u .s after you know this

01:41:13.060 --> 01:41:15.199
amazing service that you had for your country

01:41:15.199 --> 01:41:17.159
and and you know obviously the danger that was

01:41:17.159 --> 01:41:20.619
to you and your family walk me through that kind

01:41:20.619 --> 01:41:24.899
of um build up towards 2021 and and the evacuation

01:41:24.899 --> 01:41:29.550
through your eyes It was really challenging,

01:41:29.810 --> 01:41:31.770
it was really challenging, really heartbreaking

01:41:31.770 --> 01:41:35.170
for me to see that happen. I did not predict

01:41:35.170 --> 01:41:40.989
that. I learned that I ... I believe that the

01:41:40.989 --> 01:41:44.529
country will collapse as that quick because I

01:41:44.529 --> 01:41:47.109
was really counting on the Afghan National Army,

01:41:47.250 --> 01:41:50.130
the police, the Indians, because they were equipped

01:41:50.130 --> 01:41:53.689
with all kinds of resources, training and, you

01:41:53.689 --> 01:41:58.770
know, physical capacity. But because of the leadership

01:41:58.770 --> 01:42:03.029
that it collapsed and the Doha Agreement, it

01:42:03.029 --> 01:42:10.260
actually became a chaos. as my siv application

01:42:10.260 --> 01:42:14.140
was a total failure every time i emailed the

01:42:14.140 --> 01:42:18.579
uscis and asked them about the status of my siv

01:42:18.579 --> 01:42:22.180
visa they came with the same questions or same

01:42:22.180 --> 01:42:24.279
reasonings like first of all they were asking

01:42:24.279 --> 01:42:26.939
for a contract number that was not possible for

01:42:26.939 --> 01:42:29.840
me at all because i served under a classified

01:42:29.840 --> 01:42:32.699
version contract that even an american cannot

01:42:32.699 --> 01:42:37.010
have access to that one And on the other hand,

01:42:37.029 --> 01:42:41.470
they were saying that, you know, I needed a letter

01:42:41.470 --> 01:42:45.930
from like a U .S. Army general. The team guys,

01:42:46.029 --> 01:42:50.090
they provided a letter from James Edward Craft,

01:42:50.470 --> 01:42:54.369
Brigadier General, who was the assistant of the

01:42:54.369 --> 01:42:56.890
Resolute Support in Kabul. But still, that contract

01:42:56.890 --> 01:43:00.090
number was missing over there. And again, it

01:43:00.090 --> 01:43:04.199
went to the missing list of the documents. And

01:43:04.199 --> 01:43:09.819
so I was just waiting and praying and hoping

01:43:09.819 --> 01:43:13.560
that one day it will happen. But when President

01:43:13.560 --> 01:43:18.439
Biden announced the total withdrawal of the military

01:43:18.439 --> 01:43:22.659
troops, and still I didn't take it serious because

01:43:22.659 --> 01:43:25.619
I was thinking that we have 300 ,000 Afghan armies.

01:43:26.399 --> 01:43:29.500
thousands of police and NDS. At least it will

01:43:29.500 --> 01:43:32.199
continue like maybe three years, maybe four years.

01:43:32.300 --> 01:43:34.840
There will be fights. But the Taliban, on the

01:43:34.840 --> 01:43:36.520
other hand, when you look at it, they were not

01:43:36.520 --> 01:43:40.800
that much. They were only like 60, 70 ,000 barbaric

01:43:40.800 --> 01:43:44.899
group of Taliban that were trained and kept in

01:43:44.899 --> 01:43:48.140
safe havens inside Pakistan over the last two

01:43:48.140 --> 01:43:52.680
decades. And I did not see a total collapse of

01:43:52.680 --> 01:43:55.640
the government. so i was really counting on it

01:43:55.640 --> 01:43:59.319
and then as soon as president biden announced

01:43:59.319 --> 01:44:02.300
and the doha agreement was done and you know

01:44:02.300 --> 01:44:07.119
i was uh witnessing the collapse of The different

01:44:07.119 --> 01:44:10.420
provinces of Afghanistan, Afghanistan has 34

01:44:10.420 --> 01:44:13.859
provinces. I was witnessing like those provinces

01:44:13.859 --> 01:44:18.420
that are more to the eastern side of Pakistan.

01:44:18.659 --> 01:44:21.239
They are connected with Pakistan, like Jalalabad,

01:44:21.439 --> 01:44:24.640
like Khaos province, like Kandahar. They collapsed

01:44:24.640 --> 01:44:29.250
immediately. And when they collapsed. This barbaric

01:44:29.250 --> 01:44:32.850
regime, the Taliban, they killed hundreds of

01:44:32.850 --> 01:44:38.829
commandos. They enslaved their females. And they

01:44:38.829 --> 01:44:43.329
killed people. Then they hanged them on the trees.

01:44:43.689 --> 01:44:47.149
They hanged them on the walls. And it was really

01:44:47.149 --> 01:44:49.750
heartbreaking. So as continuously it was coming,

01:44:49.930 --> 01:44:54.720
I went to my safe room. got out all my guns and

01:44:54.720 --> 01:44:57.800
ammo i was living in a house that had like five

01:44:57.800 --> 01:45:01.460
stores and i put my guns in each corner i decided

01:45:01.460 --> 01:45:03.500
with myself if they come from this corner i will

01:45:03.500 --> 01:45:05.720
shoot them from here if they come from this one

01:45:05.720 --> 01:45:08.500
i will use this gun and ammunition so i got my

01:45:08.500 --> 01:45:12.460
readiness and as i got my readiness i was waiting

01:45:12.460 --> 01:45:16.159
and i was also contacting with chad and daniel

01:45:16.159 --> 01:45:20.800
stinson and the other teammates too find a way

01:45:20.800 --> 01:45:23.899
to get out because if it was only about me, I

01:45:23.899 --> 01:45:26.100
would give my guns and ammunitions. I would run

01:45:26.100 --> 01:45:28.380
away to the mountains and continue the resistance

01:45:28.380 --> 01:45:32.140
against them. But when you have a family, I have

01:45:32.140 --> 01:45:35.260
three daughters, three sons, and my wife, and

01:45:35.260 --> 01:45:39.140
it was really, really difficult for me. The challenges,

01:45:39.500 --> 01:45:43.579
the struggles that I experienced in my childhood,

01:45:43.720 --> 01:45:46.699
in my life, my children didn't see that because

01:45:46.699 --> 01:45:50.010
I worked hard for them. And, you know, my children

01:45:50.010 --> 01:45:53.470
had a really good childhood and a really good

01:45:53.470 --> 01:45:57.130
life. They did not know about the consequences

01:45:57.130 --> 01:46:00.890
of what I was doing. And they didn't have any

01:46:00.890 --> 01:46:05.630
idea what was coming at them. So the kids and

01:46:05.630 --> 01:46:08.510
my wife, they seemed nervous as they were watching

01:46:08.510 --> 01:46:12.710
the news. And they were looking at me and they

01:46:12.710 --> 01:46:15.689
were becoming suspicious every minute after that.

01:46:16.479 --> 01:46:19.359
After every province has collapsed and there

01:46:19.359 --> 01:46:23.020
was news on the TV that they killed this many

01:46:23.020 --> 01:46:26.380
soldiers, the 16th slave, this many girls on

01:46:26.380 --> 01:46:29.920
the northern provinces of Afghanistan. They killed

01:46:29.920 --> 01:46:32.479
this many interpreters, those who are allies

01:46:32.479 --> 01:46:35.399
of the United States. They captured them, they

01:46:35.399 --> 01:46:38.340
tortured them, and they killed them, and they

01:46:38.340 --> 01:46:42.159
forced married their daughters. And according

01:46:42.159 --> 01:46:45.119
to the justification that they have from the

01:46:45.119 --> 01:46:50.359
Quran, the Muslim religious boat that, you know,

01:46:50.399 --> 01:46:53.699
when they kill the people or the people who work

01:46:53.699 --> 01:46:58.039
for the infidels, because they call us infidels,

01:46:58.039 --> 01:47:01.359
all the Americans, the interpreters, the ex -Afghan

01:47:01.359 --> 01:47:05.100
army or government. And, you know, they have

01:47:05.100 --> 01:47:06.939
their own justifications. They would just force

01:47:06.939 --> 01:47:11.390
marry their wives and daughters. And, you know,

01:47:11.470 --> 01:47:14.550
I was contacted with Chad and Dan and they were

01:47:14.550 --> 01:47:16.449
praying over me through the phone and they're

01:47:16.449 --> 01:47:19.689
like, hey, brother, don't worry. I'm in Washington,

01:47:19.829 --> 01:47:22.510
D .C. talking to some very high ranking guys.

01:47:22.670 --> 01:47:26.430
They know how hard you work for this nation.

01:47:26.689 --> 01:47:29.170
They have your documents and we are trying to

01:47:29.170 --> 01:47:31.109
come up with a plan and we will save you. No

01:47:31.109 --> 01:47:33.949
worries. On the 15th of August, the government

01:47:33.949 --> 01:47:39.020
collapsed. The five days that I experienced in

01:47:39.020 --> 01:47:43.979
my life from 15 to 20, I never and ever seen

01:47:43.979 --> 01:47:48.619
such a horrible time in my life. Although I was

01:47:48.619 --> 01:47:52.020
a strong man, I had military experience. I had,

01:47:52.020 --> 01:47:56.079
you know, all kinds of experiences in my life

01:47:56.079 --> 01:48:01.729
like hunger. I knew how to handle it. uh those

01:48:01.729 --> 01:48:04.170
the challenge that was coming but because of

01:48:04.170 --> 01:48:08.069
my children and my daughters every minute i look

01:48:08.069 --> 01:48:11.310
at them and what was coming at us i was losing

01:48:11.310 --> 01:48:16.640
my internal spiritual energy my body was dying

01:48:16.640 --> 01:48:19.439
totally I don't know what was happening although

01:48:19.439 --> 01:48:23.500
I was trying to hold myself very strong and carrying

01:48:23.500 --> 01:48:26.960
my guns with me and ammunitions and I knew that

01:48:26.960 --> 01:48:29.979
my friends will come and save me but still my

01:48:29.979 --> 01:48:32.380
body was losing the energy and I was becoming

01:48:32.380 --> 01:48:36.939
weaker and weaker like on the 15th when Daniel

01:48:36.939 --> 01:48:39.579
Stinson he called me and told me hey Aziz we

01:48:39.579 --> 01:48:42.449
are in Abu Dhabi We're coming to Kabul to save

01:48:42.449 --> 01:48:45.670
you. But before that, I need you to go and do

01:48:45.670 --> 01:48:49.569
me a recon. It was like around noontime that

01:48:49.569 --> 01:48:53.050
he called me. I could still see the Afghan soldiers

01:48:53.050 --> 01:48:56.489
in the capital because the capital did not collapse

01:48:56.489 --> 01:49:00.630
on the 15th, as I was witness of that. And I

01:49:00.630 --> 01:49:03.029
called this driver because I could not use my

01:49:03.029 --> 01:49:06.039
own cars. uh because they were really famous

01:49:06.039 --> 01:49:08.439
people knew me i called this taxi driver who

01:49:08.439 --> 01:49:10.380
was a friend of me i told him hey i need your

01:49:10.380 --> 01:49:12.920
help Come home and take me with you. I got my

01:49:12.920 --> 01:49:15.699
guns and my camera. I did a recon around the

01:49:15.699 --> 01:49:17.920
Kabul International Airport. I took pictures

01:49:17.920 --> 01:49:20.619
all the way through the U .S. Embassy, the different

01:49:20.619 --> 01:49:23.640
gates that the Kabul International Airport had.

01:49:23.819 --> 01:49:26.699
My cousin, who was a border police inside the

01:49:26.699 --> 01:49:29.079
Kabul International Airport, with the help of

01:49:29.079 --> 01:49:32.720
him, I got inside the international terminal,

01:49:32.840 --> 01:49:36.119
the local civilian terminal. I took pictures

01:49:36.119 --> 01:49:40.069
because... My brother Dan, who was in Abu Dhabi,

01:49:40.229 --> 01:49:43.189
he told me that he needed to have a very good

01:49:43.189 --> 01:49:46.810
recon. I needed to make him a presentation PowerPoint

01:49:46.810 --> 01:49:49.869
so that when they come here, where they can bring

01:49:49.869 --> 01:49:52.369
people in and where they can process them, kind

01:49:52.369 --> 01:49:55.409
of like a CBP process, because they need to check

01:49:55.409 --> 01:49:57.609
documents, they need to do fingerprints, they

01:49:57.609 --> 01:50:00.449
need to do eye prints, interview. So they wanted

01:50:00.449 --> 01:50:03.250
to make sure that the bad guys do not get inside

01:50:03.250 --> 01:50:05.729
all these immigrants that are trying to free

01:50:05.729 --> 01:50:08.939
the country. And, you know, I came back home

01:50:08.939 --> 01:50:12.239
and I provided all these things and sent it to

01:50:12.239 --> 01:50:15.060
him. But then the next day, that night when they

01:50:15.060 --> 01:50:17.319
landed in Kabul airport, like in the next morning,

01:50:17.399 --> 01:50:19.460
they send me a GPS location. They're like, hey,

01:50:19.479 --> 01:50:22.699
Aziz, you and your family and children, you know,

01:50:22.720 --> 01:50:26.720
come to this location and call us. We will come

01:50:26.720 --> 01:50:31.539
to get you. As soon as I tried there, I saw that

01:50:31.539 --> 01:50:35.979
it was a chaos. It was not possible for me to

01:50:35.979 --> 01:50:41.119
go inside. First of all, like right before the

01:50:41.119 --> 01:50:44.079
government collapsed, a few days before, my wife

01:50:44.079 --> 01:50:47.880
had appendix. And we did an operation on her.

01:50:48.000 --> 01:50:51.060
But unfortunately, because of the low quality

01:50:51.060 --> 01:50:54.439
of medicines in Afghanistan and the inexperienced

01:50:54.439 --> 01:50:59.859
doctors, the appendix area was infected badly.

01:51:00.039 --> 01:51:03.750
It was full of all the dirty water. And she could

01:51:03.750 --> 01:51:07.609
not walk with me. She was really experiencing

01:51:07.609 --> 01:51:10.569
pain and she was crying. She's like, hey, Aziz,

01:51:10.590 --> 01:51:13.189
I cannot do this. I would rather die in my house

01:51:13.189 --> 01:51:16.310
instead of die on the streets. And people stepped

01:51:16.310 --> 01:51:20.210
on me because that's what happened. When we faced

01:51:20.210 --> 01:51:22.689
the Taliban checkpoints, they were shooting at

01:51:22.689 --> 01:51:25.569
us. I was all covered. I had my Afghan jammies.

01:51:25.750 --> 01:51:29.779
And then I slowly sneaked in from them. Then

01:51:29.779 --> 01:51:32.960
the second line there was the Afghan Zero Units.

01:51:33.000 --> 01:51:36.500
The Zero Units were the guys that were trained

01:51:36.500 --> 01:51:41.100
by the CIA to counter terrorism at the ex -government

01:51:41.100 --> 01:51:44.260
time. So they were used during the evacuation

01:51:44.260 --> 01:51:47.739
in the second line of security around the airport.

01:51:48.500 --> 01:51:51.699
And, you know, then they started shooting at

01:51:51.699 --> 01:51:54.180
me. And then I explained to them and, you know,

01:51:54.220 --> 01:51:56.159
I showed them my documents and stuff. And then

01:51:56.159 --> 01:51:59.050
they let me to go inside. As soon as I tried

01:51:59.050 --> 01:52:01.550
to go inside, then all these young Marines are

01:52:01.550 --> 01:52:04.149
over there with their Humvees and tongues. And,

01:52:04.170 --> 01:52:06.390
you know, they are shooting at me. And I'm like,

01:52:06.449 --> 01:52:08.470
hey, man, I'm one of the United States allies.

01:52:08.829 --> 01:52:11.050
These are my documents. Please give me a chance.

01:52:11.250 --> 01:52:14.090
I want to show you my documents. And they're

01:52:14.090 --> 01:52:16.789
like, no, no, I don't know you. You're not supposed

01:52:16.789 --> 01:52:20.130
to be here. Go, go. And they're firing at me

01:52:20.130 --> 01:52:22.649
and firing. And then I got really disappointed,

01:52:22.850 --> 01:52:24.689
and I called Chad, and I'm like, hey, brother,

01:52:24.829 --> 01:52:27.329
it's not possible. Those guys that they're inside

01:52:27.329 --> 01:52:30.430
the airport, the team guys for Chad and Dan,

01:52:30.510 --> 01:52:33.550
is it possible to come outside and save us? He's

01:52:33.550 --> 01:52:36.109
like, let me talk to them. He talked to them,

01:52:36.170 --> 01:52:38.470
but for some reason, I think the military did

01:52:38.470 --> 01:52:42.220
not let these guys to come out. They told me

01:52:42.220 --> 01:52:44.819
to tell these Marine guys that I work for Chad.

01:52:45.060 --> 01:52:50.020
He's a famous guy. And I told them, I'm like,

01:52:50.100 --> 01:52:52.199
hey, Google Chad. Do you know Chad Robichaud?

01:52:52.340 --> 01:52:54.680
Google him. He's my brother. He's my friend.

01:52:54.840 --> 01:52:59.380
I work for him. And still, they refused me. They

01:52:59.380 --> 01:53:02.380
rejected me. They didn't accept me. We had to

01:53:02.380 --> 01:53:06.420
come back home. We faced several Taliban checkpoints

01:53:06.420 --> 01:53:09.000
on the road between the home and the airport.

01:53:10.010 --> 01:53:14.890
I saw ladies who were shot at their heads because

01:53:14.890 --> 01:53:17.170
of all these different firings that the Taliban,

01:53:17.449 --> 01:53:20.250
the Zionists and the Marines were doing to spread

01:53:20.250 --> 01:53:24.890
the crowd out because everybody wanted to save

01:53:24.890 --> 01:53:28.149
their own interpreters or allies, like the Brits

01:53:28.149 --> 01:53:31.050
were trying to save their interpreters, Canadians,

01:53:31.430 --> 01:53:35.729
Italians, Germans, Australians, you know, all

01:53:35.729 --> 01:53:40.279
the NATO. groups were there and there were different

01:53:40.279 --> 01:53:44.600
kinds of processings and every gate was busy

01:53:44.600 --> 01:53:49.659
by a specific country so we came back home although

01:53:49.659 --> 01:53:52.859
in one of the checkpoints they shot at us while

01:53:52.859 --> 01:53:57.069
we were coming home because My friend this guy

01:53:57.069 --> 01:53:59.710
was a taxi driver. I have my six kids with me

01:53:59.710 --> 01:54:02.109
and myself We're all packed up. They try to stop

01:54:02.109 --> 01:54:05.010
us and I have my documents with me I told my

01:54:05.010 --> 01:54:08.229
friend that taxi driver to not stop because if

01:54:08.229 --> 01:54:10.590
they search and they see these documents we are

01:54:10.590 --> 01:54:12.829
done We are done on the on the middle of the

01:54:12.829 --> 01:54:15.229
street. So you have to run away they shoot at

01:54:15.229 --> 01:54:19.590
us Luckily we didn't shoot on the car, but they

01:54:19.590 --> 01:54:23.090
shoot in the air. So we ran away into the streets

01:54:23.930 --> 01:54:28.390
and came home like five days in a row. Several

01:54:28.390 --> 01:54:32.689
times, these guys would send me the GPS locations

01:54:32.689 --> 01:54:36.270
that, hey, Aziz, try this location. When I tried

01:54:36.270 --> 01:54:38.970
that location, as soon as I arrived near the

01:54:38.970 --> 01:54:42.729
airport, hundreds of thousands of people are

01:54:42.729 --> 01:54:46.449
outside the airport, elbowing each other, pushing

01:54:46.449 --> 01:54:49.229
each other, trying to get inside the airport.

01:54:49.979 --> 01:54:52.899
to get on the plane and leave the country. It

01:54:52.899 --> 01:54:55.699
was not possible for me. So it was really disappointing

01:54:55.699 --> 01:54:59.560
and heartbreaking. And every time I tried it,

01:54:59.659 --> 01:55:04.039
we failed. So I called this guy, Sean, who was

01:55:04.039 --> 01:55:07.180
inside the airport with Alex, the teammates for

01:55:07.180 --> 01:55:09.819
Chad. I told him, brother, it's not possible.

01:55:09.939 --> 01:55:12.920
It's because my wife is really in pain. My kids

01:55:12.920 --> 01:55:18.000
are crying. And if you guys... At least come

01:55:18.000 --> 01:55:20.859
by the gate or at least come to that area where

01:55:20.859 --> 01:55:23.260
the Marines are. At least tell the Marines I

01:55:23.260 --> 01:55:25.500
will pass the Taliban, I will pass the zero units,

01:55:25.579 --> 01:55:28.279
but tell the Marines not to shoot at me and let

01:55:28.279 --> 01:55:31.359
me in. Then he's like, okay, send me a family

01:55:31.359 --> 01:55:34.279
picture so I can recognize you among the crowd.

01:55:34.600 --> 01:55:37.420
I sent him a picture of my whole family and myself

01:55:37.420 --> 01:55:40.500
and they sent me their pictures and another GPS

01:55:40.500 --> 01:55:44.430
location on the 28th. That was the day after

01:55:44.430 --> 01:55:49.770
a few hours of wait and a lot of firings at us,

01:55:49.949 --> 01:55:53.529
accepting a lot of risks. We were finally able

01:55:53.529 --> 01:55:57.289
to see each other in the crowd. He was by the

01:55:57.289 --> 01:56:01.670
gate like 150 meters across the street. I saw

01:56:01.670 --> 01:56:04.229
him. I'm like, hey, Sean, Sean, Sean. He didn't

01:56:04.229 --> 01:56:08.439
hear. Then I'm like, hey, Aziz, Aziz, Aziz. Alex

01:56:08.439 --> 01:56:10.340
told him, hey, that's Aziz, that's your man.

01:56:10.500 --> 01:56:12.100
He's like, hey, man, we have been looking for

01:56:12.100 --> 01:56:15.199
you. I'm like, tell those zero units not to shoot

01:56:15.199 --> 01:56:18.819
at me because they were shooting at me. And they

01:56:18.819 --> 01:56:22.340
let me in. But this time what happened was that

01:56:22.340 --> 01:56:27.579
I left my children and my wife like a few kilometers

01:56:27.579 --> 01:56:31.380
away from the crowd inside the taxi with my friend.

01:56:31.460 --> 01:56:37.189
I came by myself. But once I met Sean and he

01:56:37.189 --> 01:56:39.630
told the zero units that he needs to bring his

01:56:39.630 --> 01:56:43.470
family in, do not shoot at him. I called my brother

01:56:43.470 --> 01:56:48.510
-in -law and my friend who was in the taxi and

01:56:48.510 --> 01:56:50.529
told him that, hey, please come and take this

01:56:50.529 --> 01:56:52.470
route. I send them the GPS location. They're

01:56:52.470 --> 01:56:54.590
like, hey, the Taliban are shooting at us. I

01:56:54.590 --> 01:56:56.649
told them, pretend that, you know, we are not

01:56:56.649 --> 01:56:58.810
coming to the airport. You are crossing the road.

01:56:59.029 --> 01:57:01.550
Once you arrive to this location, just sneak

01:57:01.550 --> 01:57:04.970
in. I'm here. I waited with the zero units. He

01:57:04.970 --> 01:57:08.409
came and I received my family after a lot of

01:57:08.409 --> 01:57:11.270
risks and difficulties. And, you know, my wife

01:57:11.270 --> 01:57:14.369
was still crying. We saved her, brought her inside

01:57:14.369 --> 01:57:17.250
the airport. Then I received a phone call from

01:57:17.250 --> 01:57:21.090
Abu Dhabi, from Daniel Stinson, my brother. He's

01:57:21.090 --> 01:57:24.829
like, hey, Aziz, there is this girl, Hodebia.

01:57:25.069 --> 01:57:28.289
She's an American University of Afghanistan college

01:57:28.289 --> 01:57:32.039
student. She's there by herself. Her family is

01:57:32.039 --> 01:57:35.619
in Pakistan. She's been there for three, four

01:57:35.619 --> 01:57:39.359
nights behind the airport in the crowd. She's

01:57:39.359 --> 01:57:42.600
trying to get in. They are not allowing her.

01:57:42.659 --> 01:57:45.680
Somebody pushed her from the wall. She fell off

01:57:45.680 --> 01:57:50.319
and she's all wounded and really in pain. Bring

01:57:50.319 --> 01:57:53.520
her food, water. Bring her with your family.

01:57:53.760 --> 01:57:57.390
You are either bringing her. or you're not coming.

01:57:57.810 --> 01:58:01.930
I'm like, I had to accept the risk again, leave

01:58:01.930 --> 01:58:04.029
my family outside. But this time I was happy.

01:58:04.069 --> 01:58:07.069
At least my family is safe. So I came back outside,

01:58:07.310 --> 01:58:11.609
looked for this girl for a few hours. I found

01:58:11.609 --> 01:58:17.149
her finally and brought her in. And again, you

01:58:17.149 --> 01:58:19.409
know, several times I got shot at, you know,

01:58:19.449 --> 01:58:22.789
the Taliban, Marines and the zero units again.

01:58:22.909 --> 01:58:25.800
Then I had to call. alex and sean and they had

01:58:25.800 --> 01:58:29.859
to come outside and same kind of procedure uh

01:58:29.859 --> 01:58:32.920
help me out and then get in inside the airport

01:58:32.920 --> 01:58:35.439
as soon as i was inside the airport because this

01:58:35.439 --> 01:58:38.880
girl was all weak and wounded you know her hands

01:58:38.880 --> 01:58:42.420
were black the neck was black she was all in

01:58:42.420 --> 01:58:45.979
pain i was holding her like this to bring her

01:58:45.979 --> 01:58:50.079
in so she doesn't fall and my wife noticed that

01:58:50.640 --> 01:58:53.359
She's like, oh, what's that young girl doing

01:58:53.359 --> 01:58:57.220
in my husband's house? She was really shocked.

01:58:57.699 --> 01:59:02.840
And she thought that that's my second wife. I'm

01:59:02.840 --> 01:59:07.079
trying to rescue her. Then, you know, I brought

01:59:07.079 --> 01:59:08.939
her in and I explained everything to her and

01:59:08.939 --> 01:59:11.500
told her to calm down. She's, you know, this

01:59:11.500 --> 01:59:14.960
is Dan's friend. She's an American University

01:59:14.960 --> 01:59:18.189
College student. She's by herself. She has no

01:59:18.189 --> 01:59:20.770
body, so we need to save her. And I brought her

01:59:20.770 --> 01:59:23.630
with myself as a daughter into the humanitarian

01:59:23.630 --> 01:59:27.949
city. It was the first flight that myself, that

01:59:27.949 --> 01:59:30.850
girl, and a few other guys in that plane, we

01:59:30.850 --> 01:59:34.850
were evacuated into the Abu Dhabi humanitarian

01:59:34.850 --> 01:59:38.909
city. This humanitarian city was, it was not

01:59:38.909 --> 01:59:42.470
a humanitarian city. It was actually... A new

01:59:42.470 --> 01:59:45.310
city was built by the royal family in Abu Dhabi

01:59:45.310 --> 01:59:48.489
for the coronavirus patients. But since because

01:59:48.489 --> 01:59:50.489
they didn't use it for that one, they give it

01:59:50.489 --> 01:59:54.069
to us to use it. And, you know, they locked us

01:59:54.069 --> 01:59:56.149
inside. They interviewed us, screened all our

01:59:56.149 --> 02:00:00.090
information and put us in one of the blocks because

02:00:00.090 --> 02:00:02.869
we were not vaccinated. And there was a fear

02:00:02.869 --> 02:00:06.750
of spread of coronavirus. We had to stay in quarantine

02:00:06.750 --> 02:00:10.989
for almost a month. And then every two days or

02:00:10.989 --> 02:00:13.170
three days, the doctors would come behind the

02:00:13.170 --> 02:00:16.069
door and do the swab. You know, I hate that swab

02:00:16.069 --> 02:00:22.810
thing. And for all the children, once the U .S.

02:00:22.829 --> 02:00:25.130
consulate was inside the humanitarian city, the

02:00:25.130 --> 02:00:29.029
Afghan embassy, all these 10, 12 NGOs were there

02:00:29.029 --> 02:00:31.609
to interview the people to find out who is who.

02:00:32.279 --> 02:00:35.520
uh who is here who who has been evacuated there

02:00:35.520 --> 02:00:37.960
is there were no clear instructions there were

02:00:37.960 --> 02:00:41.939
no uh specific procedures and you know they would

02:00:41.939 --> 02:00:44.640
send these buses behind one building and call

02:00:44.640 --> 02:00:48.100
like for example 10 20 rooms All the people would

02:00:48.100 --> 02:00:51.140
storm and push themselves to get in the bus,

02:00:51.300 --> 02:00:53.899
quickly go to the U .S. consulate and get processed

02:00:53.899 --> 02:00:56.300
and come to the United States. The people did

02:00:56.300 --> 02:00:59.659
not have patience and they did the same actions

02:00:59.659 --> 02:01:03.220
like they did in the Kabul airport. So what happened

02:01:03.220 --> 02:01:07.199
was I noticed this and I took it as a serious

02:01:07.199 --> 02:01:11.939
problem. And I had to come outside using my American

02:01:11.939 --> 02:01:15.520
network and connections to tell the Arab CIDs

02:01:15.520 --> 02:01:18.260
to unlock me from the building. I had to walk

02:01:18.260 --> 02:01:21.859
building by building, floor by floor, knock on

02:01:21.859 --> 02:01:24.800
the doors. Like in one building, there were 60

02:01:24.800 --> 02:01:28.159
rooms. In each room, there was like four or five.

02:01:29.690 --> 02:01:32.350
knock in there and bring all the people in the

02:01:32.350 --> 02:01:34.710
walkway and talk to them and tell them, hey,

02:01:34.789 --> 02:01:38.010
guys, we are in the safety. We need to understand.

02:01:38.149 --> 02:01:40.689
We need to cooperate. We should not push each

02:01:40.689 --> 02:01:44.229
other. It's shame. It's bad. We need to let the

02:01:44.229 --> 02:01:46.970
guys at the U .S. embassy to do their job, the

02:01:46.970 --> 02:01:50.170
guys at the NGOs, the Afghan embassy. Most of

02:01:50.170 --> 02:01:52.989
these people, they did not have documents like

02:01:52.989 --> 02:01:57.109
marriage certificate, like passports, like Afghan

02:01:57.109 --> 02:02:03.649
ID cards. So, first of all, I set like a communication

02:02:03.649 --> 02:02:06.170
channel within all the buildings. Like, for example,

02:02:06.270 --> 02:02:08.510
I told them that in each floor, you guys need

02:02:08.510 --> 02:02:10.670
to come up with a leader. It's very difficult

02:02:10.670 --> 02:02:13.069
to communicate. You need to come up with a leader.

02:02:13.489 --> 02:02:16.210
Everyone will be processed. No one will be left

02:02:16.210 --> 02:02:18.869
behind. But all we need to do is cooperate with

02:02:18.869 --> 02:02:21.630
each other. So the floor leaders are assigned.

02:02:21.970 --> 02:02:26.010
And every day. I had to talk to more than 120

02:02:26.010 --> 02:02:29.310
people, 20 leaders. Every one of them sending

02:02:29.310 --> 02:02:32.329
me messages. Hey, there is a newly baby born

02:02:32.329 --> 02:02:35.369
over here. We need a doctor. Hey, we need, you

02:02:35.369 --> 02:02:39.050
know, this guy is sick. Or, you know, many different

02:02:39.050 --> 02:02:44.710
scenarios and difficulties. I almost had a stroke,

02:02:44.890 --> 02:02:48.479
like a heart attack. My left side was all paralyzed.

02:02:48.500 --> 02:02:50.840
One morning I could not wake up from the bed

02:02:50.840 --> 02:02:53.319
because of the pressure of the work. The whole

02:02:53.319 --> 02:02:55.659
these thousands of people were, you know, talking

02:02:55.659 --> 02:02:57.539
to their leaders and the leaders were talking

02:02:57.539 --> 02:03:01.079
to me. And finally, after creating communication

02:03:01.079 --> 02:03:05.279
channels, we ended up assigning building leaders

02:03:05.279 --> 02:03:08.460
to make the communication channel smaller. So

02:03:08.460 --> 02:03:10.739
the floor leaders report to the block leaders,

02:03:10.899 --> 02:03:12.859
then the block leaders report to the cluster

02:03:12.859 --> 02:03:15.840
leaders, like six blocks were in one cluster.

02:03:16.319 --> 02:03:18.500
and then the cluster leader directly report to

02:03:18.500 --> 02:03:22.060
me then i had to report it like for example to

02:03:22.060 --> 02:03:24.600
the ministry of health or the u .s embassy the

02:03:24.600 --> 02:03:27.720
afghan embassy and we were finally able to create

02:03:27.720 --> 02:03:29.800
documents through the afghan embassy for these

02:03:29.800 --> 02:03:31.859
people like marriage certificate which was a

02:03:31.859 --> 02:03:36.159
very need for these people to process them like

02:03:36.159 --> 02:03:39.979
for example if one interpreter wanted to come

02:03:39.979 --> 02:03:43.220
to United States through this humanitarian power,

02:03:43.399 --> 02:03:46.840
they needed, the USCIS needed some documents

02:03:46.840 --> 02:03:51.939
to prove their, you know, complete the formal

02:03:51.939 --> 02:03:54.579
process, like, you know, for the wife. He could

02:03:54.579 --> 02:03:57.340
not bring the wife unless she had a marriage

02:03:57.340 --> 02:03:59.420
certificate. But then the Afghan embassy was

02:03:59.420 --> 02:04:02.140
able to create the embassy because all these

02:04:02.140 --> 02:04:05.979
soldiers, most of them were soldiers that, you

02:04:05.979 --> 02:04:10.460
know, ran away from their battalions or companies

02:04:10.460 --> 02:04:12.399
and they left all your documents they couldn't

02:04:12.399 --> 02:04:14.399
bring it with them because of the fear of the

02:04:14.399 --> 02:04:17.300
taliban that they will be captured on the road

02:04:17.300 --> 02:04:20.140
to the airport and they will kill them in the

02:04:20.140 --> 02:04:23.119
first category like we processed all those people

02:04:23.119 --> 02:04:26.420
who had american passports we processed those

02:04:26.420 --> 02:04:28.020
and finished them send them because that was

02:04:28.020 --> 02:04:30.279
easy and then on the second all the green card

02:04:30.279 --> 02:04:33.260
holders then after that all those people that

02:04:33.260 --> 02:04:35.600
had families and relatives in the united states

02:04:35.600 --> 02:04:39.979
and then after that the people who worked for

02:04:39.979 --> 02:04:43.239
the army or government or different projects

02:04:43.239 --> 02:04:46.859
they needed to contact their supervisors and

02:04:46.859 --> 02:04:49.760
the supervisors needed to get in contact with

02:04:49.760 --> 02:04:52.640
the u .s uh consulate over there to vouch for

02:04:52.640 --> 02:04:54.939
them that i know this guy this is my recommendation

02:04:54.939 --> 02:04:58.420
later hr later kind of to understand that you

02:04:58.420 --> 02:05:01.319
know who is who and then process them and bring

02:05:01.319 --> 02:05:05.180
them In the middle of the night, like the doctors

02:05:05.180 --> 02:05:09.800
would call me, hey, Aziz, we are here with many

02:05:09.800 --> 02:05:12.220
different vaccines for these people, like coronavirus

02:05:12.220 --> 02:05:15.079
vaccines, like the Marcellino vaccine, chickenpox

02:05:15.079 --> 02:05:18.739
vaccine. There were 10 or 9 vaccines that needed

02:05:18.739 --> 02:05:22.460
to be done on each man and woman before they

02:05:22.460 --> 02:05:25.500
are even transferred to the United States because

02:05:25.500 --> 02:05:28.920
that was a requirement by the USCIS. And, you

02:05:28.920 --> 02:05:31.560
know, again, I had to manage and use these leaders

02:05:31.560 --> 02:05:33.600
with the help of these building floor leaders.

02:05:33.760 --> 02:05:37.319
We were able to manage everything and process

02:05:37.319 --> 02:05:42.279
everyone. And finally, we are here. I spent almost

02:05:42.279 --> 02:05:46.319
like nine months over there and almost like three

02:05:46.319 --> 02:05:50.420
or four protests happened at me because when

02:05:50.420 --> 02:05:53.699
you are working for public, it's not easy. You

02:05:53.699 --> 02:05:56.220
know, I did not have a salary. I was helping

02:05:56.220 --> 02:05:59.699
these people voluntarily. I was using my daughter

02:05:59.699 --> 02:06:03.020
and my son, like most of these people that work

02:06:03.020 --> 02:06:06.520
for the CIA. They were illiterate people. They

02:06:06.520 --> 02:06:09.800
had HR letters, recommendation letters from the

02:06:09.800 --> 02:06:12.779
CIA, but they were not able to file an application

02:06:12.779 --> 02:06:16.640
with the USCIS. So I asked Chad and Daniel Stinson

02:06:16.640 --> 02:06:19.020
and these guys from the NGOs, the Americans,

02:06:19.159 --> 02:06:22.310
that we needed laptops and printers. to bring

02:06:22.310 --> 02:06:25.750
them in so that we need to start filing these

02:06:25.750 --> 02:06:28.829
cases for these guys. Otherwise, it was not possible

02:06:28.829 --> 02:06:31.750
for them to process it. But most of them, you

02:06:31.750 --> 02:06:34.430
know, the cases were processed over there at

02:06:34.430 --> 02:06:36.430
the humanitarian city, and now they are here

02:06:36.430 --> 02:06:38.750
in many different states of the United States.

02:06:39.250 --> 02:06:41.130
Well, it's amazing. And you've given such a different

02:06:41.130 --> 02:06:43.510
perspective than, you know, most people would

02:06:43.510 --> 02:06:44.949
hear, even the people that have been on here

02:06:44.949 --> 02:06:48.050
so far. And I'm so glad that we got to talk longer.

02:06:48.880 --> 02:06:51.960
A couple of questions. Firstly, you spend your

02:06:51.960 --> 02:06:53.880
whole life, well, I rephrase that, you spend

02:06:53.880 --> 02:06:55.800
most of your life in Afghanistan, you spend some

02:06:55.800 --> 02:06:58.859
of your time in Dubai, and now you find yourself

02:06:58.859 --> 02:07:02.060
in the United States, this country where so many

02:07:02.060 --> 02:07:03.640
of these men and women that you serve alongside

02:07:03.640 --> 02:07:06.600
were from. Talk to me about that journey for

02:07:06.600 --> 02:07:10.119
you and your family from Afghanistan to Texas.

02:07:13.360 --> 02:07:16.420
Well, it's actually a very good journey. Even

02:07:16.420 --> 02:07:19.100
in Afghanistan, we spend a very good time, although

02:07:19.100 --> 02:07:22.920
there were hardships, difficulties, and many

02:07:22.920 --> 02:07:26.279
different economical challenges in our life.

02:07:26.539 --> 02:07:29.659
But there were some restrictions in Afghanistan,

02:07:29.739 --> 02:07:33.479
like my sons could go to the gymnastics club,

02:07:33.579 --> 02:07:36.539
but for my daughters... There were no opportunities

02:07:36.539 --> 02:07:40.000
over there. There were schools that my daughters

02:07:40.000 --> 02:07:43.220
could go to school, but I had bodyguards over

02:07:43.220 --> 02:07:46.880
there because of what I was doing. My family

02:07:46.880 --> 02:07:49.340
had the security from the Ministry of Interior

02:07:49.340 --> 02:07:53.020
Affairs in Afghanistan. And everywhere, my daughters

02:07:53.020 --> 02:07:56.899
or my sons, including to school, club, or the

02:07:56.899 --> 02:07:59.460
people's wedding or funeral, they go, they were

02:07:59.460 --> 02:08:04.189
escorted. For the team that I was working, there

02:08:04.189 --> 02:08:08.069
was a fear that the bad guys would probably kidnap

02:08:08.069 --> 02:08:12.909
my daughters and then it would be difficult for

02:08:12.909 --> 02:08:15.750
me to continue the job. So they had given me

02:08:15.750 --> 02:08:19.189
all kinds of protection at that time. And it

02:08:19.189 --> 02:08:24.789
was more of a live with fear, with anxiety, frustration

02:08:24.789 --> 02:08:31.399
every day. Chances of kidnapping, chances of

02:08:31.399 --> 02:08:35.399
being robbed, chances of being shot at because

02:08:35.399 --> 02:08:39.380
of being an ally to the United States. There

02:08:39.380 --> 02:08:43.279
were all kinds of chances. Our movements were

02:08:43.279 --> 02:08:46.159
very limited in Afghanistan. We would not move

02:08:46.159 --> 02:08:50.279
very often like we do over here. Only when it

02:08:50.279 --> 02:08:53.520
was necessary, we were moving. But the time when

02:08:53.520 --> 02:08:55.659
we spent in Dubai, like before the humanitarian

02:08:55.659 --> 02:09:00.020
city. We also spent some time over there in Ajman.

02:09:00.460 --> 02:09:03.920
But then my wife, she didn't have the patience

02:09:03.920 --> 02:09:06.960
of being by herself over there, not knowing the

02:09:06.960 --> 02:09:10.020
language. With very little kids, she got bored

02:09:10.020 --> 02:09:11.640
and then she had to come back to Afghanistan.

02:09:12.810 --> 02:09:16.010
And also when we were going to these people's

02:09:16.010 --> 02:09:18.989
wedding or the funeral or these big gatherings,

02:09:19.430 --> 02:09:22.729
some people respected us. Some people hated us

02:09:22.729 --> 02:09:25.590
because of being an ally to the United States,

02:09:25.710 --> 02:09:28.130
which is natural. You know, when you are a famous

02:09:28.130 --> 02:09:31.170
man, you have some enemies. You have always there

02:09:31.170 --> 02:09:34.710
are some bad guys that hate you. And overall,

02:09:35.109 --> 02:09:39.109
it was a very challenging. process of life in

02:09:39.109 --> 02:09:42.949
Afghanistan for me. Every minute, every second,

02:09:43.050 --> 02:09:48.149
I was watching over my kids and my family, including

02:09:48.149 --> 02:09:51.250
doing all these different jobs that I was traveling

02:09:51.250 --> 02:09:53.949
into different risky and dangerous areas, but

02:09:53.949 --> 02:09:55.829
still I would control and check on my children.

02:09:56.109 --> 02:09:59.630
But once we came over here into the United States,

02:09:59.989 --> 02:10:04.159
I have a peace of mind. By the grace of God,

02:10:04.380 --> 02:10:07.720
I'm very, you know, my mind is really peaceful

02:10:07.720 --> 02:10:12.699
because now I'm not worried about to call the

02:10:12.699 --> 02:10:15.460
bodyguards to take my children to school. The

02:10:15.460 --> 02:10:18.399
school bus comes in the neighborhood. My kids

02:10:18.399 --> 02:10:21.539
go and walk in the bus freely, independently.

02:10:22.300 --> 02:10:25.260
They go to their school. And when there is a

02:10:25.260 --> 02:10:28.079
need or something, their counselors call me and

02:10:28.079 --> 02:10:30.460
they tell me. that these are the things that

02:10:30.460 --> 02:10:32.960
needs to be taken care of for the child, for

02:10:32.960 --> 02:10:35.760
the betterment and the improvement on their education.

02:10:36.460 --> 02:10:41.760
Everything is so responsibly done here in the

02:10:41.760 --> 02:10:46.180
United States, in contrast to Afghanistan, because

02:10:46.180 --> 02:10:49.720
in Afghanistan everything was so anagram. You

02:10:49.720 --> 02:10:52.819
could not, you know, plan anything over here.

02:10:52.979 --> 02:10:56.390
Over here everything is very well managed. um

02:10:56.390 --> 02:11:00.350
you know the kids uh have all kinds of uh opportunities

02:11:00.350 --> 02:11:03.250
like my daughters they are nowadays they are

02:11:03.250 --> 02:11:05.529
going to the martial arts including going to

02:11:05.529 --> 02:11:08.609
school they have joined that taekwondo martial

02:11:08.609 --> 02:11:13.229
arts um and right across the 1488 they go over

02:11:13.229 --> 02:11:15.550
there every evening they spend a couple of hours

02:11:15.550 --> 02:11:19.869
they have made some friends And I'm so happy

02:11:19.869 --> 02:11:23.369
for them, and I'm very grateful, and I'm thanking

02:11:23.369 --> 02:11:27.029
the Lord for giving me this opportunity that

02:11:27.029 --> 02:11:31.390
I was hoping for, for the whole country and Afghanistan,

02:11:31.569 --> 02:11:34.109
but at least I received it for my own children

02:11:34.109 --> 02:11:38.170
here. Beautiful. Well, one more area before we

02:11:38.170 --> 02:11:40.949
wrap up. You are now working with the Mighty

02:11:40.949 --> 02:11:44.189
Oaks Foundation. That was a nonprofit that Chad

02:11:44.189 --> 02:11:47.750
founded. When we do a part two with him, we'll

02:11:47.750 --> 02:11:49.449
probably explore a lot more about his mental

02:11:49.449 --> 02:11:51.390
health journey. But I know it's a very powerful

02:11:51.390 --> 02:11:53.930
one. And ultimately, his faith is one of the

02:11:53.930 --> 02:11:56.810
big elements that allowed him to kind of, you

02:11:56.810 --> 02:11:59.489
know, heal and now create this incredible foundation.

02:12:00.350 --> 02:12:03.050
There's very little discussion on mental health

02:12:03.050 --> 02:12:05.609
when it comes to maybe some of the other cultures

02:12:05.609 --> 02:12:07.689
in the Middle East. It's a very Western problem,

02:12:07.869 --> 02:12:09.630
I think, at the moment. But obviously, it's a

02:12:09.630 --> 02:12:12.359
universal problem. It's a global problem. With

02:12:12.359 --> 02:12:14.960
you having the trauma that you had, you know,

02:12:14.960 --> 02:12:17.399
as you said, even as a young kid watching your

02:12:17.399 --> 02:12:20.239
classmates get blown up by, you know, abandoned

02:12:20.239 --> 02:12:24.939
Russian, you know, explosives, etc. And then

02:12:24.939 --> 02:12:27.340
you have all these conflicts and then you fled

02:12:27.340 --> 02:12:29.140
your country and then you go back to your country

02:12:29.140 --> 02:12:30.840
and then you're watching the impact on your own

02:12:30.840 --> 02:12:34.239
children. What has been your mental health journey?

02:12:34.340 --> 02:12:36.260
You know, what were your lows and what were some

02:12:36.260 --> 02:12:38.779
of the things that allowed you to process your

02:12:38.779 --> 02:12:46.350
own trauma? Well, to be honest with you, I arrived

02:12:46.350 --> 02:12:51.489
after in 2016 when that project that I worked

02:12:51.489 --> 02:12:55.149
for was terminated. And, you know, up to that

02:12:55.149 --> 02:12:58.289
minute, I was busy. I had a purpose. I was working

02:12:58.289 --> 02:13:02.470
really hard. And, you know, once the project

02:13:02.470 --> 02:13:04.829
was terminated by the United States government,

02:13:05.109 --> 02:13:09.630
I lost my job and I became to sit in the house.

02:13:09.970 --> 02:13:14.800
And I had my own company. A private company that

02:13:14.800 --> 02:13:18.899
I did the export of the Afghan fruits to India

02:13:18.899 --> 02:13:21.880
through the air corridor. At that time, they

02:13:21.880 --> 02:13:24.100
made an air corridor because we could not send

02:13:24.100 --> 02:13:26.899
them by the ground. By the ground, every time

02:13:26.899 --> 02:13:29.640
we send something through Pakistan to India,

02:13:29.760 --> 02:13:32.840
it was being blocked by the Pakistani government

02:13:32.840 --> 02:13:36.180
because there are always a big obstacle to the

02:13:36.180 --> 02:13:39.899
Afghan merchandise. So using the air courier,

02:13:40.119 --> 02:13:44.439
I was doing my export business. My mental health

02:13:44.439 --> 02:13:51.560
was very well, but between 2017 to 2019, there

02:13:51.560 --> 02:13:55.479
were some ups and downs, because most of the

02:13:55.479 --> 02:13:58.819
time I was staying in the house, and I was not

02:13:58.819 --> 02:14:02.140
going out like I used to do when I used to work

02:14:02.140 --> 02:14:05.060
for the military. And, you know, just sitting

02:14:05.060 --> 02:14:09.170
in the house, I kind of... face to alcohol and

02:14:09.170 --> 02:14:14.010
drinking lots of alcohol and this alcohol and

02:14:14.010 --> 02:14:18.710
being free and sitting in the house and you know

02:14:18.710 --> 02:14:23.210
not being a man who was once before this kind

02:14:23.210 --> 02:14:25.710
of you know remembering my past and all those

02:14:25.710 --> 02:14:29.310
ups and downs and difficulties and actually I

02:14:29.310 --> 02:14:32.909
got PTSD I did not even know the name of PTSD

02:14:32.909 --> 02:14:35.930
over there it's the same thing every culture

02:14:35.930 --> 02:14:38.829
every A geographical place that you go, it's

02:14:38.829 --> 02:14:41.850
the same thing. But because there were not enough

02:14:41.850 --> 02:14:46.050
doctors, not experts, no research centers to

02:14:46.050 --> 02:14:49.510
find out what's happening, you know, I was, you

02:14:49.510 --> 02:14:51.829
know, remembering and there was a gap, a spiritual

02:14:51.829 --> 02:14:55.369
gap. I was not really a man of God. And, you

02:14:55.369 --> 02:15:01.909
know, I thought that we grow just like. the trees

02:15:01.909 --> 02:15:04.329
and then we die and then there is no accountability,

02:15:04.710 --> 02:15:07.489
there is no life hereafter. I didn't believe

02:15:07.489 --> 02:15:14.380
in all that. All that led me to, you know, kind

02:15:14.380 --> 02:15:17.420
of get really nervous and frustration and my

02:15:17.420 --> 02:15:20.600
hands start shaking. And one, you know, every

02:15:20.600 --> 02:15:24.060
day I was talking to my wife and, you know, she

02:15:24.060 --> 02:15:26.460
was she's like, you know, why don't you go outside

02:15:26.460 --> 02:15:29.300
and do something? And you're sitting in the house

02:15:29.300 --> 02:15:33.000
and, you know, I became a burden, burden to her.

02:15:33.180 --> 02:15:39.060
And I almost shot myself one day. I went to downstairs.

02:15:39.960 --> 02:15:42.840
And I got my Glock and I said, OK, this is it.

02:15:42.880 --> 02:15:44.859
This is the end of it because I do not have a

02:15:44.859 --> 02:15:47.960
purpose because now I see I'm losing the respect

02:15:47.960 --> 02:15:51.420
even in the family. And, you know, because of

02:15:51.420 --> 02:15:54.060
while drinking this alcohol, all these evil things

02:15:54.060 --> 02:15:56.979
circling in my mind, I'm like, let's finish it.

02:15:57.100 --> 02:16:00.539
I cannot tolerate this. I closed the door like

02:16:00.539 --> 02:16:03.640
on the first floor of that house. It was my office.

02:16:04.079 --> 02:16:07.020
I closed the door and I start drinking this bottle

02:16:07.020 --> 02:16:10.939
of Russian vodka. and I loaded the gun, I put

02:16:10.939 --> 02:16:15.659
it right here to shoot myself, that my two little

02:16:15.659 --> 02:16:19.279
ones, the eight -year -old is a girl, and the

02:16:19.279 --> 02:16:22.779
seven -year -old is a boy, at that time they

02:16:22.779 --> 02:16:24.920
were even younger, one year or a couple years,

02:16:25.380 --> 02:16:28.239
they knocked behind this door, and with this

02:16:28.239 --> 02:16:32.420
very beautiful childish voice, they called me

02:16:32.420 --> 02:16:38.459
daddy, daddy, and they started crying. That actually...

02:16:38.780 --> 02:16:43.479
Hearing that prevented me from doing a suicide.

02:16:43.979 --> 02:16:46.940
And I got mad and I started shooting the gun

02:16:46.940 --> 02:16:49.959
on the ceiling, on the floor. I hit my TV, my

02:16:49.959 --> 02:16:53.360
computer, my carpet and everything. I emptied

02:16:53.360 --> 02:16:55.780
the whole magazine over there to release everything

02:16:55.780 --> 02:16:58.739
from there. And then my wife came and the neighbors

02:16:58.739 --> 02:17:01.979
got scared. And, you know, I experienced it.

02:17:02.040 --> 02:17:05.100
I experienced PTSD in my life, not even know

02:17:05.100 --> 02:17:08.600
the name of it or the process of it. But then

02:17:08.600 --> 02:17:11.719
when I sat down with myself after that night,

02:17:11.899 --> 02:17:14.920
I thought with myself that I need to become a

02:17:14.920 --> 02:17:18.579
man of God. I need to study the gospel of God

02:17:18.579 --> 02:17:21.760
and I need to, you know, start praying and I

02:17:21.760 --> 02:17:24.219
need to find some activities. I found me a couple

02:17:24.219 --> 02:17:27.540
of retired colonels from the Afghan army in the

02:17:27.540 --> 02:17:30.500
neighborhood. And we started walking like for

02:17:30.500 --> 02:17:32.799
three hours in the day, walking in the mountains.

02:17:32.860 --> 02:17:37.579
I, you know, kept myself busy and also my sons.

02:17:38.059 --> 02:17:41.620
were walking with me. And, you know, that really

02:17:41.620 --> 02:17:46.360
helped me to overcome the PTSD. Otherwise, it

02:17:46.360 --> 02:17:49.260
was getting me. It got me. It was almost like

02:17:49.260 --> 02:17:53.200
75, 80 percent. It was going to be 100 percent

02:17:53.200 --> 02:17:57.100
at me. But because of the blessing of God and

02:17:57.100 --> 02:18:00.260
referring to him and crying to him in the middle

02:18:00.260 --> 02:18:03.620
of the night and praying and studying the gospel

02:18:03.620 --> 02:18:10.420
of God led. me to walk away from it and you know

02:18:10.420 --> 02:18:14.360
overcome finally well firstly it's fascinating

02:18:14.360 --> 02:18:16.680
because you use the word burden and that is one

02:18:16.680 --> 02:18:19.139
of the things that i don't think people really

02:18:19.139 --> 02:18:22.280
understand when it comes to suicide a lot of

02:18:22.280 --> 02:18:24.500
people will call suicide very selfish oh how

02:18:24.500 --> 02:18:26.399
could they do that you know why would they do

02:18:26.399 --> 02:18:28.420
that to their family and when you listen to people

02:18:28.420 --> 02:18:31.590
like yourself that have been right there It's

02:18:31.590 --> 02:18:35.030
a selfless act in their broken mind at that point,

02:18:35.069 --> 02:18:36.829
you know, through alcohol, through trauma, etc.

02:18:37.209 --> 02:18:40.510
And if I remove myself, I'm the problem for my

02:18:40.510 --> 02:18:42.629
family. If I remove myself from this world, my

02:18:42.629 --> 02:18:44.629
family will be happier. Now, it doesn't make

02:18:44.629 --> 02:18:47.309
any sense, but that's what I hear. And it's so

02:18:47.309 --> 02:18:49.790
sad because when you look at some of the messaging.

02:18:50.649 --> 02:18:52.809
To the people that are in crisis, they were like,

02:18:52.870 --> 02:18:54.770
well, think of your family. Well, that's actually

02:18:54.770 --> 02:18:56.950
a really bad thing to say to someone who thinks

02:18:56.950 --> 02:18:59.649
that they're a burden to their family. So it's

02:18:59.649 --> 02:19:02.069
interesting that whether you're American or Afghani

02:19:02.069 --> 02:19:06.309
or South African, it's the same message. The

02:19:06.309 --> 02:19:08.049
other thing that you said, you talked about visiting

02:19:08.049 --> 02:19:09.750
your father in the mosque. So I'm assuming you

02:19:09.750 --> 02:19:12.229
grew up in a Muslim family. Did you stay within

02:19:12.229 --> 02:19:14.409
Islam or did you actually shift over to Christianity?

02:19:16.610 --> 02:19:19.729
To be honest with you, I don't want to reveal

02:19:19.729 --> 02:19:24.790
it. Because I still got family in Afghanistan,

02:19:24.930 --> 02:19:29.790
but I've been a man of God. Yeah, me too. I mean,

02:19:29.809 --> 02:19:31.610
I think ultimately there's common denominators,

02:19:31.610 --> 02:19:33.610
no matter what you name your religion. So we'll

02:19:33.610 --> 02:19:36.930
leave it at that. Yes, yes, exactly. Because

02:19:36.930 --> 02:19:39.629
I still got family in Afghanistan and, you know,

02:19:39.670 --> 02:19:42.309
it's risking their life. I don't want to put

02:19:42.309 --> 02:19:45.790
that in media, but we can talk to it when I meet

02:19:45.790 --> 02:19:51.879
you in person. Living in God and, you know, studying

02:19:51.879 --> 02:19:56.319
the gospel of God have really, really enjoyable.

02:19:56.920 --> 02:20:01.100
Like at that time, I had money. I had the properties.

02:20:01.420 --> 02:20:05.299
I had buildings. I had a farmhouse. I had cars,

02:20:05.659 --> 02:20:09.420
bodyguards. Still, I was frustrated. Still, I

02:20:09.420 --> 02:20:13.120
was nervous. Still, I couldn't have enough sleep

02:20:13.120 --> 02:20:17.899
from the night. But when I totally. Give it all

02:20:17.899 --> 02:20:21.860
to God. And I turned to God. I live today in

02:20:21.860 --> 02:20:25.020
a rental house. And, you know, I work for the

02:20:25.020 --> 02:20:27.500
Mighty Oaks Foundation as a cultural advisor.

02:20:27.899 --> 02:20:32.059
And, you know, since I've been a man of God and

02:20:32.059 --> 02:20:35.959
I've given everything into the hand of God, the

02:20:35.959 --> 02:20:40.159
sole sovereign, and he's been taking care of

02:20:40.159 --> 02:20:45.239
everything. And I do not give a damn about nothing

02:20:45.239 --> 02:20:49.860
in my life. Because, you know, I have the best

02:20:49.860 --> 02:20:53.299
friend ever. Beautiful. Well, the other thing

02:20:53.299 --> 02:20:54.899
as well, as you talked about getting out into

02:20:54.899 --> 02:20:58.600
nature and with, you know, your sons, your brothers,

02:20:58.680 --> 02:21:01.780
etc. So that's another thing that I see is the

02:21:01.780 --> 02:21:04.020
reoccurring healing element is the community

02:21:04.020 --> 02:21:08.239
is time in nature, daylight and exercise. So

02:21:08.239 --> 02:21:13.809
again, a universal truth in mental health. Yes,

02:21:13.809 --> 02:21:18.049
yes, of course. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, the

02:21:18.049 --> 02:21:22.989
nature and living in God and being a man of God

02:21:22.989 --> 02:21:28.309
is all happiness, confidence. And, you know,

02:21:28.450 --> 02:21:31.930
you're realizing, I mean, first, we need to study

02:21:31.930 --> 02:21:35.190
ourselves, that what we come from, how we come

02:21:35.190 --> 02:21:40.370
from. And, you know, what's the status for every

02:21:40.370 --> 02:21:44.690
one of us? There is a purpose that God has created

02:21:44.690 --> 02:21:49.129
us and he is using us. He is using us for the

02:21:49.129 --> 02:21:52.770
many different plan that he had for us. We were

02:21:52.770 --> 02:21:56.770
not even created that he had a plan for us in

02:21:56.770 --> 02:22:00.409
his mind before we were even created by him,

02:22:00.469 --> 02:22:05.079
by the Lord. I'm really happy that I found my

02:22:05.079 --> 02:22:12.059
soul and I spent every day some time with him.

02:22:12.200 --> 02:22:16.719
And like especially working in Mighty Oaks is

02:22:16.719 --> 02:22:21.139
a great opportunity. Every work starts with prayer.

02:22:21.379 --> 02:22:26.639
Every work starts by the name of God. Every thing

02:22:26.639 --> 02:22:30.479
that we do here, we started, we ended. Even our

02:22:30.479 --> 02:22:34.879
food, every food, like breakfast or lunch, if

02:22:34.879 --> 02:22:38.120
we eat with the team guys or alone by ourselves,

02:22:38.299 --> 02:22:41.680
it's with prayers. It's much blessing and much

02:22:41.680 --> 02:22:45.280
blessing. And I really, really appreciate God

02:22:45.280 --> 02:22:49.020
giving me this opportunity to serve here and

02:22:49.020 --> 02:22:52.620
help the people who are really in need. And sharing

02:22:52.620 --> 02:22:57.819
my testimony with them, it gives people. the

02:22:57.819 --> 02:23:01.280
opportunity to realize the difficulties and many

02:23:01.280 --> 02:23:04.200
different challenges in their life and find their

02:23:04.200 --> 02:23:07.540
souls and then become partner with their families

02:23:07.540 --> 02:23:11.280
and you know be respectful to their kids and

02:23:11.280 --> 02:23:15.959
you know and uh kick away all those burden or

02:23:15.959 --> 02:23:20.100
rags hacks or their past that's bothering them

02:23:20.100 --> 02:23:24.780
continuously like uh every day i check my facebook

02:23:24.780 --> 02:23:27.770
messenger there is a message Somebody sent me

02:23:27.770 --> 02:23:31.770
from Texas, somebody sent me from Florida, somebody

02:23:31.770 --> 02:23:35.290
sends me from somewhere else. They're like, hey,

02:23:35.309 --> 02:23:38.069
thank you Aziz, after hearing your testimony

02:23:38.069 --> 02:23:42.690
at Mighty Oaks, or going through the main legacy

02:23:42.690 --> 02:23:46.950
program in Mighty Oaks, listening to your testimony,

02:23:47.489 --> 02:23:51.850
it was really strong. I was able to find my son

02:23:51.850 --> 02:23:55.590
and my daughter, the one that once abandoned

02:23:55.590 --> 02:23:59.250
me, And, you know, I have problems with my wife,

02:23:59.290 --> 02:24:02.670
but because of listening to your story changed

02:24:02.670 --> 02:24:06.430
my life. And I take that as a reward because

02:24:06.430 --> 02:24:09.909
of me. If somebody's life has changed, it's another

02:24:09.909 --> 02:24:13.190
blessing, another reward from the almighty God

02:24:13.190 --> 02:24:15.809
to me. Absolutely. I think that's another healing

02:24:15.809 --> 02:24:17.969
element. When you're able to be in a place where

02:24:17.969 --> 02:24:19.889
you can start helping others, that also helps

02:24:19.889 --> 02:24:24.319
yourself as well. Yeah. Exactly. So for people

02:24:24.319 --> 02:24:26.819
listening, Mighty Oaks, where can they find that

02:24:26.819 --> 02:24:39.500
online? They can go to our website, www .mightyoaksprograms

02:24:39.500 --> 02:24:42.780
.com. They can find it through our programs and

02:24:42.780 --> 02:24:50.530
through our website and they can enroll. over

02:24:50.530 --> 02:24:54.829
there into one of our programs and they can easily

02:24:54.829 --> 02:24:58.629
come and we are here to help them. Brilliant.

02:24:58.690 --> 02:25:01.049
And then if they want to reach out to you at

02:25:01.049 --> 02:25:03.149
all, are there any places online or social media

02:25:03.149 --> 02:25:07.610
that you exist now? Yes, actually they can follow

02:25:07.610 --> 02:25:17.829
me on AzizullahWAziz on Instagram and I'm Azizullah.

02:25:18.639 --> 02:25:22.280
space aziz on facebook brilliant all right well

02:25:22.280 --> 02:25:24.860
aziz i want to be i want to thank you so much

02:25:24.860 --> 02:25:26.479
for being so generous with your time today we've

02:25:26.479 --> 02:25:28.620
talked for almost two and a half hours i will

02:25:28.620 --> 02:25:30.719
definitely get chad back on so we can kind of

02:25:30.719 --> 02:25:33.319
expand a little bit more on his story but you've

02:25:33.319 --> 02:25:35.139
given us a completely different perspective not

02:25:35.139 --> 02:25:38.260
only of the incredible evacuation of your specific

02:25:38.260 --> 02:25:41.520
family but the service of you know your family

02:25:41.520 --> 02:25:44.940
to this country the environment that you you

02:25:44.940 --> 02:25:47.239
know the pros cons and everything else when it

02:25:47.239 --> 02:25:49.659
came to you know your upbringing in afghanistan

02:25:49.659 --> 02:25:51.979
so i just want to thank you so so much for being

02:25:51.979 --> 02:25:55.840
so generous with your time today yes you're welcome

02:25:55.840 --> 02:25:58.780
you're welcome my pleasure my pleasure nice meeting

02:25:58.780 --> 02:25:59.100
you