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the Behind the Shield podcast with the CEO and
founder, Francisco Morales. Welcome to the Behind
the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James
Gearing, and this week it is my absolute honor
to welcome on the show Chad Robichaux and Azizullah
Aziz. Now, Chad is a former law enforcement officer,
but spent most of his career as a Marine, ultimately
working in a unique specialty role within Marine
Recon. Once in Afghanistan, he was assigned Aziz
as his interpreter. And as you will hear, they
served eight deployments together before Chad
transitioned out and ultimately Aziz's interpreter
program was closed down. Fast forward a few years
and we have the mass evacuation. Chad assembled
some incredible members of the military as written
in his latest book, Saving Aziz. So we discuss
a host of topics from their two individual journeys
through their childhoods, the powerful story
of how their lines intersected, the incredible
danger our allies are in once we withdrew from
Afghanistan, and so much more. Now, before we
get to this incredible conversation, as I say
every week, please just take a moment, go to
whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe
to the show, leave feedback, and leave a rating.
Every single five -star rating truly does elevate
this podcast, therefore making it more visible
for others to find. And this is a free library
of well over 700 episodes now. So all I ask in
return is that you help share these incredible
men and women's stories so I can get them to
every single person on planet Earth who needs
to hear them. So with that being said, I introduce
to you Chad Robichaux and Azizullah Aziz. Enjoy.
Well, Chad and Aziz, I want to start by saying,
firstly, I'm extremely excited to read the book
when it comes out. And secondly, thank you so
much for coming on the Behind the Shield podcast
today. Thanks for having us on. We're excited
to talk about the book and our life together,
our story. So thank you. Brilliant. Well, I'll
start with you, Aziz. Where on planet Earth are
we finding you today? Today, you can find me
in Texas, Houston, Magnolia. Fantastic. And then,
Chad, what about yourself? Same here. I'm just
down the street from Aziz. I think looking at
the video, Aziz is in our office right now, our
Mighty Oaks Foundation office where he's working.
And I'm in my home office right down the road
in Texas. Fantastic. Well, I would love to walk
you both through the beginning of your journey.
So I'm sure people can tell from Aziz's accent,
he's not a native Texan. So we'll start with
you. So Aziz, tell me where you were born and
tell me a little bit about your family dynamic,
what your parents did. And how many siblings?
Okay. My name is Azizullah. Everyone calls me
Aziz from the childhood. And I'm okay with that.
I was born in Kabul, Afghanistan in 1983. And
I have six brothers and three sisters. My father
was a Mujahideen battalion commander. He fought
the Russians when the Russians invaded Afghanistan.
And after that, once the Russians left, he did
his own business, the car sales business. And
on my journey, I actually self -taught myself
how to speak English, how to learn English. And
then as I was learning it, the kids noticed in
the neighborhood and they asked me to teach them.
And by doing that, I continuously... taught about
800 students. It was back in 1996 to 1999. And
around 800 students graduated. At that time,
it was the first black era of Taliban in Kabul,
Afghanistan. As I was teaching English, it was
one of the evenings. This group of the Taliban
that comes by the businesses and close the businesses
and push the people to go to the mosque for prayers.
That evening, I didn't go to the mosque and I
was just continuing with my lessons and they
caught me. They tried to put me in the jail.
I was very young and I was boxing at that time
and strong. And I punched this Taliban guy on
his face and I jumped from the first floor and
ran away to the neighbor's house, not knowing
that this neighbor's house is also a Taliban's
house. This lady. She saw me. She's like, hey,
are you teacher Aziz? I'm like, yes, ma 'am.
I'm teacher Aziz. I'm running away from the Taliban.
They are behind me. Please give me safety here.
She's like, OK, go to this bathroom. Don't worry
about them. My husband is also Taliban. I'm like,
damn, oh God, I didn't want this. She gave me
a refugee for a couple hours in her bathroom.
The Taliban were outside. They were calling on
loudspeaker. They tried to capture me. But the
good thing was at that time, once you take refugee,
between the females, they were not coming over
there. So they left. They intended to come back
tomorrow. But that night I went home and I talked
to my parents. Luckily, at the end of the street
that we lived in Kabul at that time, there was
this human trafficking guy. He already had 39
Afghan young people with him for the purpose
of leaving tomorrow, like tomorrow morning to
Dubai. So my father told me, why shouldn't you
join them and just go? Because there's no more.
living opportunity here for you. Just go and
find your dream and, you know, live your life
because it's not possible. So I joined this human
trafficking guy. We went to Pakistan, from Pakistan
to Iran, from Iran to Oman, and then finally
ended up in Dubai. And in Dubai, I started working
for a Christian family of the house boy. And,
you know, until that time when the 9 -11 happened.
Then I told everything to this Dubai immigration
officer. At that time, I explained everything
to them that this is how I came and I wanted
to go back home and I needed their help to send
me back home. But then they became really interested
in me because all those years that they were
looking at how all these immigrants without the
documents coming to their country, they did not
know which routes they are taking, how they are
coming. So I kind of gave them the whole information.
They were interested to hire me over there. But
then when I noticed they wanted to use me against
the poor people who just came to their country
to find a piece of bread and, you know, do their
regular life. And I didn't like the idea. I told
them, first, send me home. I want to go home.
I need to get married, see my family, then get
a passport, send me the visa. I will come back
and join you guys. As soon as they sent me to
Afghanistan, I came to Kabul military training
center where the third special forces of the
U .S. military was there. They were building
the military compound for preparing to train
the Afghan National Army. And I took a test over
there. Most of this test was inclusive of all
military terminologies. And I passed. Among a
few hundred volunteers, I was the third guy who
passed the test. And they hired me as an interpreter
and worked for them for one year from 2002 to
2003. And then I was promoted and introduced
to the U .S. Embassy, the Regional Security Office.
They had this project. It was called ATA, the
Anti -Terrorism Assistance. They hired me as
a chief interpreter over there, and I ended up
working for them another year from 2003 to 2004.
Then, according to my abilities, and, you know,
they saw something in me, they promoted me to
this other project, the JSOC Spatial Operation,
where I met Chad over there in 2004. When I met
Chad, it was one of the mornings over there that
I came from the house to the office. I saw Chad.
I really liked him, you know, very well disciplined,
sharp and all athletic and sportsman. And as
we all know that he's a recon Marine, you know,
every time he likes to do this recon and, you
know, before. uh going anywhere he likes to kind
of do the observation and find out what's happening
find all those weak spots and we traveled to
our different properties and compounds and warehouses
he identified some points that the enemy could
easily use and attack our employees so he took
some notes with me together and then you know
he prepared some plans for improvement of construction
at the walls like the constantine wire like extension
of the wall so that the enemy should not be able
to climb on the wall in the middle of the night
and easily target our employees and then we became
friends i invited him to my house and he met
my wife and my kids and i noticed that he really
likes the afghan food my wife i asked my wife
to cook him some afghan food like kabli palau
it's a mixture of rice beef and some seeds and
stuff with the natural oil and You know, we work
together all the way up to 2007 in many different
missions risky operations between all Afghanistan
and most of Pakistan and then Chad was moved
into a different project from there But I continued
doing the same thing all the way up to 2016.
And meanwhile, you know, Chad and I, we were
trying, he was also trying to help me with my
SIV application to help me. And we have been
trying to process my SIV application, the patient
immigrant visa. so I could come here to the United
States but unfortunately because I worked or
I served under a classified contract in Afghanistan,
the USCIS did not process my documents. They
were regularly asking for a contract number which
was not possible for me to provide for them because
the version is classified and nobody can have
access to that one. And then I had to stay in
Afghanistan, and continuously do my work, and
you know, he tried here a lot, I tried over here,
but not knowing God's plan. It was God's plan
that postponed it all, my SIV application, and
I stayed up to the very last minute, which you
know, was ... It happened side by side with the
withdrawal of the U .S. troops from Afghanistan
in August 2021. So that was the time when Chad
really put a team together with other colleagues
that I worked with, and they all put their own
life at risk, and they came to Afghanistan to
rescue me and my family. And finally, we are
here. Brilliant. Well, I mean, I'm looking forward
to hearing kind of more details of that. But
I want to go back to your early life, if you
wouldn't mind. After the Mushahideen had defeated
the Russians, before the Taliban really grabbed
your city in that case, I think a lot of people
in the West have an impression of Afghanistan
as this war -torn, concrete jungle, as it were.
Talk to me about... Afghanistan when you were
a young boy, before the Taliban really started
getting hold? It was actually, when I remember,
it was the communist regime that the Mujahideens
were fighting, the communist regime, especially
the Russian army, to liberate Afghanistan from
them. And I was very young and I went to school.
My daily life consists of playing in the Russian
leftovers like tanks, jeeps, and the Volgas.
uh with a bunch of kids from the neighborhood
you know we would just go there on our free time
and we would play on the russian tanks and take
off some of the parts like bearings like they
had these um behind the killers which uh you
see from the bottom you you know it shows from
the app we would open those and then sell them
and buy some stuff from the grocery for ourselves
and as i was doing that there was a say in afghanistan
that there is a big project that's coming from
turkmenistan to afghanistan from afghanistan
to pakistan iran and india it's connecting the
region it's a natural gas pipeline and whoever
is able to speak english they will hire them
and give them a decent amount of salary so as
i was noticing my family's economical situation
was not very good And I was comparing and contrasting
because all my parents, they were dependent on
my grandfather. My grandfather owned farmhouses
like the grape gardens, peaches and these kind
of things. He had laborers working for them.
You know, he would harvest all those things and
spend the money on his sons, like my uncles,
my aunts. With their children, we all lived in
one house that belonged to the grandfather, my
father's father. So it was more of a dependency,
and I was really annoyed by that one, and I wanted
a better future. I wanted more facilities, more
economical resources for my family, so I decided
that I have to... I pushed myself and I have
to study this language and doesn't matter how
long it takes and how difficult it is, I have
to do it. I started it, I give myself challenges,
I went to these stationeries. in Kabul and I
found these books that are called the self -learning
English. It has like the English word and then
it has the pronunciation on my own native language
in the bottom of it so I can pronounce it and
then it has another line for the meaning of it.
So it had all the things that I needed. Kabul
was at that time, actually there were several
wars at that time. I was the witness of the A
lot of killings of lots of children in Kabul,
on the streets of Kabul, landmines. I saw my
childhood friends that they stepped on the landmines
and I saw them that they lost their legs and
their hands and they were all full of blood.
And a few of them, I saw them, they lost their
lives. Like today we are playing in the playground
and the next day when I go to their house. to
call him to come and play and then you know i
saw everyone in their family their relatives
their sisters and my parents they are crying
on him so that was those were really tough and
broken heartbroken situations for me in my life
but still i did not lose hope i was continuously
learning and learning especially the english
language at that time in afghanistan there was
no electricity there was no internet There was
no cell phone. There was no computer. Even in
the Afghan presidential palace, you could not
find one computer, one desktop or, you know,
those IBM International business machines at
that time they had. But when people needed to
call somebody, for example, people had friends
and relatives in Europe and U .S., they would
go all the way from Afghanistan into Pakistan.
and use toriah foods in Pakistan and pay for
the toriah foods to contact their relatives or
you know friends and so it was that challenging
it was that hard but I continuously days and
night I was using the candles and studying my
language and practicing it and then as I was
practicing this language I had to talk louder
sometimes, especially when I was walking on the
streets in the neighborhood. And then the kids
noticed. They're like, hey, what the heck are
you talking? Are you crazy? What is this? I'm
like, hey, man, this is international language.
This is called English. If you learn it in the
future, you will have a very good job. And, you
know, you can become a doctor. You can become
an engineer. Go to the pharmacy and see all the
medicine is. you know using the the pharmacists
are using english language for you know identifying
the medicines the doctor language is english
the engineer language is english and i kind of
explained this thing as i was explaining they're
like hey why don't you teach us whatever you
would teach us and this actually created a very
good opportunity for me it became an obligation
more of an obligation like i had to study so
that I can better teach tomorrow to my students.
That way, if they ask me something, I should
not have a bad face. I should not get embarrassed.
Like I was challenging myself, how should I say
this in English? How about if they ask me this?
Or how about if they ask me about that? What
should be my answer to them? in the class so
this was kind of more an obligation and challenge
and it opened the road for me to go and search
more and more like i had this tsarist dictionary
i was looking up on my vocabulary finding the
right specific word that i needed for tomorrow
and i would learn how to spell it i would learn
how to what's the past form how should i use
it in the present form like all these different
tenses and Life was at that time really challenging.
We did not have enough resources, like economical
resources, such as we did not have a car in the
house. We did not have enough food for all of
us to eat. It was very difficult and challenging
because the Mujahideen and the communist parties
were in fight most of the time, the routes that
delivered the food. like coconut oil, flour,
rice, or any commodities or food products, sometimes
because of the civil wars, the roads will get
blocked because the convoys that were coming
from Russia to Afghanistan, especially the food
products, the Mujahideen would put a landmine
in the middle of the street and, you know, when
the convoy goes on it and it will blow off the...
Then the helicopters were flying, and then for
a few days there were shortages of food, and
we just had to eat whatever comes from grandfather's
gardens. Most of the time, I remember in the
mornings, I only ate grapes. At lunchtime, I
only ate grapes, and at night I ate grapes. There
was no bread, there was no cooking oil, there
was no... being arise because of all the distraction
and the civil wars and the delays and all those
different things that was happening and i remember
that as a child one time when i was going to
the mosque uh to find my father uh grandfather
and uh you know there was a couple of guys they
pointed loaded guns at me and they told me that
Are you a communist or a Mujahideen? I told them
I'm a child. I don't know. They fired the full
magazines on two sides of me. I was really scared.
I cried and I didn't know what to do. I was shaking.
But then later on, as I was growing, I remembered
that those guys were drunk. Those were the Mujahideen
soldiers. They were really, really drunk and
they were enjoying from shooting at my sides
and watching my cries. And they were enjoying
from that point. So there was lots of cruelties
in Afghanistan at that time. There was not accountability
because there were no accountable governments.
The country was divided into different segments.
Like even the Mujahideens, there was Hizb -e
-Islami, Jamia -e -Islami, Harakat. They were
funded and supported by the Wahhabis from Saudi
Arabia, from Pakistan, from Iran. And then on
the other side was from Russians. It was a mess.
It was a big mess. Nobody knew who was responsible.
who is accountable. There was no accountability
at that time at all. Anybody could do anything
they want. But if we come like before the start
of jihad or before the emergence of the Mujahideen,
I do not remember that time because I was very,
very young. But before that, Kabul, Afghanistan,
it had a very good era. like especially during
the kings i have shot as you look to the pictures
the ladies wore mini skirts the all the males
they were pants and coats and tie and my dad
was talking that people came from germany from
india from iran from turkmenistan into cobble
university to do their uh to do their studies
on on our native language like Pashto or Dari
they were doing their masters over there uh but
it it had all the the beauties and also but unfortunately
all the beauties the hospitalities of the Afghan
people the friendliness of the Afghan people
is taken away by uh The 40 or 47 years of the
wars and the contradictions and the different
supports of the parties, because this country
is more of a mountainous country and the intelligence
and the region has always interfered. Like, for
example, if we see today Saudi Arabia and Iran,
they are doing their fight in Afghanistan. Their
animosity, their rivalries are happening in Afghanistan.
On the other hand, when you see Pakistan and
India is doing the same thing. If, you know,
the government in Afghanistan, if they give face
to India a little bit, then Pakistan becomes
unhappy. If they make friendship with Pakistan,
India becomes unhappy because of the animosity
and the rivalries and the greed for power and
the multi -ethnic nation and as well as, you
know, the interfere of the neighboring countries.
The country has lost all its best heritage, hospitality.
I mean, the good people, the people are starving.
And today it's a shame, as we can see, you know,
all the girls are banned from school, even at
the Mujahideen time at that time. had the same
ideology as the Taliban has it today. I remember
that Mujahideen used the battery, the acid water,
the water that you use for the battery, the car
battery, they used it and they spread it on the
Kabul University, the girls' faces, because they
thought that it's a shame. it's shame for for
the afghan families if their ladies or their
girls are wearing mini skirts or you know they
are not wearing burqas or they are not covered
they are coming to the university because that's
how they were taught in the pakistani madrasas
and yet it's shamefully continuously happening
in afghanistan and on the other hand when i look
there is no one in afghanistan who should think
about the national interest of Afghanistan. They
are all thinking about their party's benefits,
their tribe's benefits, or their region's benefits.
There is no one among all those people who call
themselves the Afghan leaders, there is no one
who I see that he should have a comprehensive
agenda about the national interest of Afghanistan
as a whole. Even at that time and now. Well,
firstly, thank you for, again, painting a picture.
I've had a couple of your fellow Afghani natives.
Fahim Fazli, who moved to the U .S., became an
actor and actually went back to join the Marines
as an interpreter for a few years. And then Wali
Taslin, who now works with the Black Rifle guys.
He was a commando over there, too. But getting
this picture painted of what it was like and
some of the desperation that we see when people
are just trying to feed their families and joining
some of these militia. And then as you're talking
about people protecting their parties rather
than serving the nation, well, that sounds very,
very familiar here in the US too. So there's
a lot of commonalities, I think, even there.
Well, Chad, I want to bring you in. Same thing
for you. Let's start at the very beginning. So
tell me where you were born and tell me a little
bit about your family dynamic, what your parents
did and how many siblings. Well, my family is
84 years of military service. So definitely a
big military family. We started back World War
II, Korea. My father was the first Marine in
our family. So 50 something years ago, my father
went to Marines, was an infantryman in Vietnam.
um myself doing eight deployments to afghanistan
and then both my sons marines uh one was afghanistan
veteran as well hunter so that's kind of you
know my family background uh but i did come from
a very uh southern louisiana uh grew up in like
if you ever seen swamp people like grew up in
the homa tibeto raceland those areas louisiana
which is very like i don't want to say country
very swamp uh people kind of in my whole uh Mother's
side of my family were commercial fishermen.
So my first job was skinning catfish and fishing
with my grandfather. And then my dad's side of
the family were trading cattle and baling hay.
So very blue collar, hardworking families. A
lot of dysfunctional. A lot of dysfunction in
my home. My father definitely had his hardships
from Vietnam. A lot of alcohol. A lot of women
went through. you know multiple marriages and
women and and a very violent man so a lot of
physical abuse in my home including myself and
i don't mean spanking something like fist to
face physical abuse so that's kind of how i grew
up i had a brother he was a year older than me
we were uh we were southern louisiana country
boys always out in the mud and woods and swamps
playing like we're in the military and had this
desire to go into military and um we uh we decided
i was 13 he was 14 years old that's what we would
do and uh we really thought it would be a way
to escape that lifestyle and uh but but one of
the things we had uh always noticed was my father
as uh angry of his man as he was the only thing
that made him really happy was the fact that
he was the united states marine and uh and that
was like you know the marines was like what appealed
to me because it was he was so proud of it and
i had uh i just really that was around the time
of uh you know navy seals had those documentaries
coming out and they were really promoting the
seals so super interested in the jumping and
diving but i didn't want to be in the navy and
so i learned about recon marines and force recon
marines and started reading a lot of books uh
on that those guys in vietnam and had this really
infatuation with uh marine marine reconnaissance
and uh particularly a unit third force recon
in uh in Vietnam. And that ironically ended up
being in that unit years later. But, uh, so that's
the path we went on. Me and my brother started
running and swimming. We're lifelong athletes.
So we were, uh, started running and swimming
at a young age and about a year into that tragedy
hit my family and my brother was shot and killed.
Um, and, uh, so it was extremely devastating
to me, put me in a pretty deep isolation as a
child. Uh, he, uh, my, what I had left of a family,
my father did not want to deal with the grieving
mother. uh it was my it was actually my stepmom
she moved away my dad moved to africa to go take
a job there not to deal with that so my 20 year
old sister and myself ended up living in my in
my my dad's home and uh i was trying to the house
was paid for but everything else was on us so
uh you know from 14 to 17 years old i was working
trying to go to high school and uh probably wasn't
going to graduate high school uh and i went to
a marine corps recruiter named staff sergeant
brown and told him my story told him what i was
going through he helped me write a hardship letter
to the marine corps and the marine corps enlisted
me at 17 years old without without even a high
school diploma and so uh that's 1993 and uh in
that first year is when i tried out to be you
know become a reconnaissance marine and uh as
most people probably listening knows it's very
difficult in any special operations to make it
through that process all the branches have about
80 % attrition rate in their special operations
programs. And somehow at 18 years old, you know,
I was, I was able to make it through my first
round. And, you know, there's a lot of great
jobs in the military, but for me, there was nothing
more fitting for me than being a recon Marine.
And, but, you know, going into that time, there's
a lot of peacetime training. And so I got to
do all the schools, you know, combat dive, jump
school, free fall school, and then becoming a
free fall team leader at third force recon company.
And I was in almost 10 years before 9 -11 happened.
And when 9 -11 happened, you know, I was a sergeant
team leader at 3rd and 4th Street Con and watching
those planes fly in the Royal Charity Center
buildings. I do, you know, I think everyone in
the military at the time knew, like, my life's
about to be different and the world just changed
and we're going to go make this right. And so
I was extremely eager to get my chance to deploy.
But that's kind of how I grew up and what brought
me. to, you know, from being a kid. And I look
back at all that from martial arts, starting
at five years old to a dysfunctional home, which
I'm not championing a dysfunctional home at all.
But the hardships that came with that, I believe
all those things allowed me to have a certain
resiliency and a certain drive to, you know,
want to make my life better and seize opportunities
to make my life better because of the way I grew
up. And it all led me to the opportunity I had
to, you know, ultimately when September 11th
happened, you know, take all those things and
all that life experience and trials and tribulations
and combine with that training experience and
go and take advantage of the opportunity that
I had to, you know, do something good to set
the record straight for 9 -11. And then ultimately
my perspective changed when I got to Afghanistan
and it wasn't just about 9 -11, it was about
helping. those people in afghanistan that are
truly oppressed and you know situations like
that really change your perspective when you
get to see them firsthand absolutely well i want
to go back for a second when i first started
this podcast which is just over six years ago
now as a firefighter and a paramedic we kind
of were starting to understand the whole mental
health conversation but it was still well it's
what we see on the job so it's what you know
as he saw when he lost his friends it's what
you know you saw when you were deployed but As
this has kind of paid out and I've heard all
these stories, what I realize is one of the least
discussed but seemingly most powerful elements
of mental health in the first responder or military
profession is actually what happened to us before
we ever put the uniform on. With you having all
these generations of different veterans in your
family, including your own children, what is
your observation of that, whether it's within
your family lineage or the people that come to
the Mighty Oaks? Well, I believe what I've deserved
in my own life and in the life of thousands now,
you know, I've spoken to 450 ,000 active duty
troops in my residency speaking, and then we've
had 4 ,500 graduates of our recovery program.
What I really have determined is that there's
a predisposition to. dealing with anxiety, depression,
and PTSD that is seen in military veterans, police,
fire, you know, people from the EMS and emergency
and first responder field. I think there's a
predisposition to it because, you know, I've
seen some amazing guys, like I got a Matt Hyde,
who's a Navy SEAL, some incredible combat experience.
Jeremy Stolenecker, who's a co -founder of Mighty
Oaks, he's a Marine infantry, infantry platoon
commander. Like these guys both had a... high
level combat trauma experiences, but because
of the way they were raised, they grew up in
really healthy family. They were strong Christians
before they went in. They had a really strong
spiritual foundation in their life. They seen
those hard things and had a little bit of, maybe
a little bit of a, you know, time navigating
past them. But ultimately they were, because
of the, the past they had, they were able to
rebound really quickly where people like me and
people have had very rough childhoods, which
is a lot of people that end up in the military.
A lot of people that end up in law enforcement
and fire. And particularly in my community, special
operations community, people that grew up with
that kind of, that kind of rough, dirty lifestyle,
that grit end up in those fields. They already
have like so much built up. I mean, just like
this coffee cup here, right? They have so much
built up. So if this is coffee cup and I know
if someone is listening and not looking, so kind
of indicating like maybe three quarters full
of a cup of trauma. through their childhood and
life, and he takes a major event like a shooting
or a mass casualty incident or seeing, you know,
kids mangled or going to combat, if you took
that three -quarters full cup and you dropped
a bunch of chunks in it of ice, it's going to
come spilling over. And, you know, that's what
I think we see. But if you have like a really
stable upbringing and childhood and that cup's
only a quarter full of trauma and hardship and
heartbreak. then you're able to drop some pretty
big things in it. And yeah, it rattles your world
a little bit, but you're able to not spill over.
And that's kind of was me. I mean, my whole life,
I mean, extreme physical abuse in my life, rejection
from my parents. I felt my whole life the abandonment
of both my mother and father not wanting me.
And then moving into my brother being who's the
closest person to me in my life at that time,
going through dysfunctional home like that, you
get really bonded. with a sibling and and then
to have him just in one moment you know we were
talking that morning in the next morning you
know hours later he was shot in the chest and
immediately killed he's gone uh those types of
things and the following year my grandparents
like uh my grandfather was killed and and my
grandmother who i like sat and had ate breakfast
with every morning like was killed so like all
this like happened at one time and then you know
it never dealt with it at all uh you know there
was no i wasn't a healthy home environment to
be able to help process those things so so you
go into military and you just kind of live life
and those things are just right below the surface
they're not they're not surfacing you're not
seeing anything from it they're right below the
surface but then you add something like aid deployments
to afghanistan you know uh the things that these
and i seen you know we uh they're not aid deployments
i uh had 15 friends buried uh you know all of
them very close to, but one of them, you know,
was like a best friend of 10 years. We served
together for 10 years. So having all those things
happen, you know, my cup was already full and
it spilled over and, you know, brought a lot
of things out in my personal life and my family
and people around me had to suffer for it. And,
you know, I thought I was unique in that, but
doing the work that I do now, I realized I'm
not unique in that at all. Like so many guys
from the, again, from the military and first
responder communities. uh if you look at look
at their lives it's a very consistent pattern
in mind and uh we had all these guys that are
amazing combat veterans and first responders
they they have been through so much on a job
and you know guys that have had like navy cross
recipients or medal of honor recipients and uh
And, you know, guys, Silver Star, stuff like
that, first responders, police officers have
been in these incredible heroic shootings and
things like this. And firefighters are running
into burning buildings and all these things,
right? And you get them in our program and they're
there for a week. And at the end of that week,
they get the opportunity to share their story.
And you're waiting for it. You're waiting for
it. You know, there I was like knee deep in hand
grenade pins and bullet casings or, you know,
the building was burning and the fire was there,
but I could hear a little girl screaming. You're
waiting for them to say that. But they say, when
I was seven years old, when I was five, when
I was 10 years, that's what you hear. That's
where they start. And, and, and it's, and at
first it shocked me, but now it's like, you know,
I understand that's, that's where it began. And,
and, and oftentimes it's where people have to
go back to, to find the healing in the programs
that we do. Well, I really appreciate your perspective
because that's an aha moment that I had. And
I was, you know, somewhat educated in this area
and I was a little bit more clued into the kind
of physical and mental wellness than some people
are. But when you look at that now and you look,
okay, you have this childhood where you are abused,
you do feel vulnerable, you want the buck to
stop there, you want to be the protector, you
want to build this shield around you. Our professions
are the perfect ones to walk into. Then you go
in there, you're so busy. with trying to stay
alive in a house fire i know in a firefight that
it's a great distraction until it's not until
we get to that point whether we've seen so much
trauma or we just have the opposite we transition
out we stop and now we're forced to be on our
own with our thoughts and so then when you look
at that the conversation is out there let's just
do 22 push -ups and talk about stigma or oh it
must be in that that call that you had If you're
not addressing the formative years of your life
that led you into that profession in the first
place, that's why these men and women feel like,
well, I may as well just stick a gun in my mouth
because I tried counseling. It didn't work. So
this is what's so important. I think to hear
voices like yours is until we look at the holistic
human being from birth through to where they
are now, the chances of missing the origin of
the trauma are huge. It's the tip of the iceberg
analogy, right? Most counselors, especially if
you're doing what's called cognitive therapy,
they're addressing the tip of the iceberg and
they're not looking at everything below the surface.
And I'm not saying that's all cognitive therapists,
but that's what I've seen, particularly in the
VA. There's lots of different types of treatments.
You have your traditional clinical cognitive
therapy. You have a methodology that's called
prolonged exposure. um and then you have you
know other like other type of mentoring uh programs
and all of them you know some of them are good
some of them are bad but what i found in in the
cognitive therapy which is very traditional to
uh to please fire and uh and and um and uh military
is that they try to find an incident and then
they try to cast blame they try to lead you to
cast blame of an incident on someone else to
take it off of you and uh and that's not a long
-term healthy it's just it's the analogy when
you see you know sigmund freud saying tell me
about your mother tell me about your father because
they're going back to childhood and saying well
you're this way because your mother or father
treated you bad there's no acceptance or responsibility
with that you can't change what your mother and
father did but you can change how you respond
to it And so that's why I love things like prolonged
exposure because you go back to all the incidents
in your life and you look at that and you say,
well, I can't change what happened to me, but
I can change how I respond to it. And then, you
know, with us at Mighty Oaks, we do a faith -based
approach where we say, yeah, you can't change
what happened to you. but you can respond differently.
And here's how the Bible says you should be living
in response to these difficult things that you've
been through in your life. And it gives back
control to the person. It stops making them want
to change what happened and actually face it
and say, okay, this is how I'm going to live
my life in response to that. And stop trying
to cast blame or try short -term solutions. Like
I said, hats off to everyone that has done 22
pushups, but it changes absolutely nothing. uh
i mean it brings awareness to a problem we already
know they exist we already know 22 veterans kill
themselves every day it's like everybody knows
it so what are we going to do about it right
that's uh let's take action let's not just bring
awareness more awareness and raise millions and
millions of dollars to be wasting awareness everyone
knows there's a problem let's let's solve it
let's put uh you know give people some tools
to actually face the things they've been dealt
with uh and then and then uh about to make better
life decisions to live in spite of those things.
And that's the approach I've always taken, you
know, since in my own recovery, since I have
faced my own recovery and all the thousands and
thousands of people that we've been privileged
to serve at Mighty Oaks. And it seems to be quite
a bit more successful. Well, you mentioned about
the kind of on -ramp into the Marines was quote
unquote peacetime. So I know during that time,
you also worked as a reserve police officer in
New Orleans for a little bit. So two questions.
Firstly, Was it amazing working with Steven Seagal?
Actually, he was working at Jefferson Parish
Sheriff's Office. Oh, he was? It was the same
time frame. So I was at St. Charles Sheriff's
Office. He was at Jefferson Parish, which is
a neighboring one. And a lot of the task force
we were on were the same ones. So he'd be coming
around there, you know, doing his video team,
getting some footage. He was a reserve at Jefferson
Parish. So I was actually a reserve in the Marine
Corps at the time in full time. police officer
or deputy for four years because I did my four
years of active duty as a recon Marine. Nothing
much was going on at that time. I wanted to go
back in as an officer, so I figured I'd go to
college. I already had a wife and son and three
kids by the time that was over, so I needed a
job, and that was the best thing that I could
do. In four years, I got to do a lot. I came
out of the police academy, and they put me undercover
in narcotics. And then I went to patrol for a
year, and then I went to the detective bureau,
and then I was in special investigations for
the last year. So each year of those four years,
I got to do some pretty incredible things. But
I did see Steven Seagal down there shooting some
of his stuff. All right. Well, on the other side,
a serious note. I know during your time in the
blue uniform, there was a pretty... a significant
event where there was a suicidal man involved.
So if you want to want to share that, because
I mean, you've already talked about the trauma
that you brought into the uniform, but this is
another compounding element in your career. Yeah.
You know, I just got done working, did a year
undercover and I was just fresh in patrol. And
one of my guys who helped train me, Steve Cantelli,
he was a, he was like one beat over, which is,
you know, one, one like geographical zone over
for me. And Marine, very experienced guy. And
I heard his voice come over the radio at a domestic
violence call. And he could tell something was
wrong. And he was calling for another unit. And
in the radio system, we had just got a brand
new radio system. And it glitched out, of course.
You know, Murphy's a long time. It glitched out.
And I couldn't hear him anymore. So I'm like
rushing over there. And, you know, with my lights
on. trying to get over there as fast as possible.
Cause I just knew something was, was really wrong.
And when I got to where he was, I saw this, he
was in an elevated, like not a trailer home,
but like a modular home. And, uh, and there was
about 30 people outside of this house in front
of, uh, you can tell it's like a big scene in
front of this module home. And he's on this porch,
elevated porch, arguing with this lady. And you
can tell it's like super frantic. So I make it
up on this porch and he tells me to, uh, Hey,
deal with this lady. This guy had just barricaded
himself in the back room. uh with a rifle his
name was russell stebbins um and he he was uh
we had dealt with him before and uh so the lady's
trying to get inside the house uh well this guy
has a gun so i'm working with her and i was like
just done arguing with her so i grabbed her by
the back of her clothes and kind of pushed her
over the rail and had some of the men that were
down in the crowd help grab her and pull her
away so like her and her two kids were down there
Two little kids were down there. And then I watched
the front door and my partner, Steve, went to
the back window of the room he was in because
he didn't want him to start shooting out of that
window towards the crowd. He just really wanted
to get to his wife. He had been drinking. And
as I'm standing in his doorway across kind of
cat a corner across, there's like a kitchen to
the right. And I'm looking right in the living
room and across cat a corner is a hallway. And
I seen there was a mirror and I could see him.
leaning against the wall like taking cover in
that corner and i could see him in the mirror
and uh he had a rifle and he was like manipulating
the chamber like press checking it you know to
make sure you know to me making sure it's loaded
and uh and you know i started yelling at him
like hey put the put the gun down come out let's
let's talk about you know whatever whatever's
going on and he's yelling me you guys need to
leave uh and i'm like we're not leaving so let's
just talk about this put the gun down it's kind
of like more a police dialogue at that time and
uh you know he's telling me he's telling me to
leave and then he comes around the corner and
uh he had the rifle over his shoulder kind of
like uh not in a not in his shoulder like he's
shooting it but over his shoulder and his hand
was over the receiver and his thumb was like
right next to the trigger obviously my mind was
like zoned in on that and so i could see his
like if you think of the continuum of lethal
force, like I had everything in my, you know,
lethal force continuum to shoot him at that point,
right? He's pointing a rifle at me, his hands
next to the trigger. I could have shot him at
that point. If you'd asked me that morning, like
somebody points a gun at you, you're just like,
of course, yeah, I'm going to shoot him. But,
but I don't know something about that moment.
Like I felt like his wife's right there. His
kids are outside. He's been drinking too much.
dinner still on their table i could see food
on their table the kids toys on the floor his
family pictures there i'm like i'm still in control
like i could see that if he re if he tries to
shoot me i'm i'm gonna you know my guns on him
like i'm gonna shoot him so i felt like still
in control and so i went from like please talking
please dialogue to like i i put your gun down
i'm gonna effing kill you like us i remember
telling that like i'm gonna i'm gonna effing
kill you and and he said again for me to leave
and uh and he started coming towards me really
fast and uh and so i ran towards him and i grabbed
the barrel of his gun and pushed it away from
from me uh to get that barrel pointed away from
me and and i i kind of retained my gun and tight
and i kicked him into nuts like not like a soccer
kick but like a push kick to about to pull that
gun away and uh and that nothing happened i mean
he was six three 263 pounds so he's and i was
probably like 130 pounds at the time But I'd
been, you know, lifelong training. And at this
time, I was training a lot. So, you know, I was
doing a lot of Muay Thai and Brazilian Jiu -Jitsu.
So I kicked him really hard. Second time I kicked
him, I don't know how, but he grabbed my wrist.
And so now me and this giant guy are fighting
over two guns. He has my wrist with my gun in
it. I have his barrel of his gun. And I knew
in that moment, just looking at him and tussling
around with him, like, he's not going to give
up. He's not ever going to, you know, he's in
this to. to, you know, to win. And so I kind
of turned my wrist over and broke his grip and
fired a single round right in the center of his
chest. Like I seen it hit like the concussion
hit in his chest and I fired five more rounds.
So I fired six rounds right in the center of
his chest. I didn't really know at the time,
but Steve had already came in the room behind
me and he fired right over my ear and he fired
six rounds as well. We hit him 11 times out of
12. I always say jokingly, although it's not
funny, but I didn't drop the round. So me and
Steve always joked about who dropped the round
and forensics ended up proving that it was him.
But yeah, it was the weirdest thing because as
I started shooting, we could have a whole nother
conversation about the physiological effects
of being in a shooting like that. I remember
watching my gun function, seeing the casings
roll out. hearing the mechanics of the gun steve's
steve's gum was against my ear with obviously
no ear pro in and i could hear just like pops
but i never heard a bang my eardrums never got
blown out i could hear people talking about 30
feet behind me and know everything they were
saying so i had audio exclusion but i had clear
clear hearing which is i think miraculous how
the human body works that way i could even hear
the mechanics of his gun functioning and everything
slowed down like but in a way that you could
think clear not like uh not like be you're bogged
down by, by it. I was actually had super clear
focus thought. And, uh, as his rounds, after
those rounds hit Russell, he, uh, he dropped
his knees and he, he looked right at me and conversationally,
like he wasn't a pain or anything, just conversationally.
He said, you killed me. And, uh, and then he
turned and fell, he slumped over and fell. And,
uh, cause he turned his back, he turned his back
to me, fell down and I reached under, I kind
of tackled him. Uh, reached under pulled his
rifle out from under him to get it away and i
pulled his arms behind him and as i'm pulling
his arms behind him i think one of his wrists
uh probably the one that had my grip him because
when i broke my broke the grip i think his hand
went in front of him and one of those rounds
went through his wrist and so uh his wrist was
like blown out and bleeding so we're trying to
handcuff him and it was like slippery and noodle
his wrist was like noodle because the bones were
blown out and i had like short sleeves on and
i remember just like handcuffing him and like
slipping in the blood and and uh And then as
I'm handcuffed, I hear other police cars coming.
I look back and seen his wife holding the kids
and just screaming. And I actually wanted to
go to her. Even though she probably didn't want
me to go to her, but I wanted to go to her because
I was trying to help her. And I wanted to go
to her. It was an instinct to comfort her. And
then Steve's much more experienced than me. He's
like, hey, let's just go. handcuffed him cleared
him let's go clear the rest of the house we clear
the rest of the house and by the time we cleared
the rest of the house uh those you know places
already blocked the doorway uh my supervisor
came in they separated steve and i and uh and
you know um that uh took us to the detective
bureau took our guns away read us our rights
interview interviewed us polygraphed us and then
we ended up uh going home that night and then
uh you know it ended up being a big deal remember
chief called me the next morning and saying hey
don't read the newspaper and of course i did
the front news front of newspaper said said cold
-blooded murder and uh and then it said please
say justified like super small underneath and
so i went through a process i went before grand
jury uh i went before grand jury for a first
degree a second degree murder indictment was
cleared and then steve and i both got from the
state of louisiana governor's award for meadow
meadow valor um but uh it was still a mess and
really really made me pretty cynical pretty cynical
person at that time because um you know when
a da da forced me to go before grand jury instead
of taking a position on it because it was election
year and it was you know pretty cynical and then
the way the public responded to it you know it
was just it made me a pretty cynical person for
a while not understanding i mean you know what
it really happened so i was super young too so
Yeah, well, thank you for sharing that. There's
a lot of people out there at the moment. I know
there's some sitting in prison for doing the
exact same thing that are police officers, you
know, so and a lot of times, as you said, it
aligns with someone's political career that made
that choice. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was election
year for the district attorney and he could ease.
I mean, the evidence was so clear. I mean, especially
forensic cabinets like was so clear when it happened,
but he didn't want to politically make that statement
himself. So he put it on. He put it in the public.
to do a grand jury and it's always easier to
put it in the public than a district attorney
to make the decision and uh you know and you
had you had witness statements saying i didn't
understand you know how ptsd worked and and how
people's traumatic experience worked to people
but they had witness statements that people actually
you could tell they went lying they believed
what they were saying and they like they looked
through a door and saw us standing over him with
his back turned executing him and then we shot
him 12 times in the back and i'm like how can
people say that like you know in the grand jury
they testified to that and uh and all the forensics
showed that the bullets were all all through
his chest and uh and so in that conflicting eyewitness
statement some said we shot him in front i'm
like so you know now i know that people hear
gunshots then they look through the door and
then they see him turned on his knees facing
away from us and they in their mind it's all
one one thing so yeah so i learned a lot about
you know how things like that happen and it was
uh but it was a difficult time to go through.
It was scary. Cause I mean, man, politically,
if you get indicted for that, you're going to
jail. And, uh, and I'm like, I'm just trying
to out here, trying to help, trying to serve,
uh, you know, and, uh, you get put in jail for
doing, you know, trying to help people. Absolutely.
Yeah. There's a guy, uh, Ben Darby, who's a police
officer who's in jail at the moment. And it was
a suicidal guy. Um, the, the, the guy, you know,
had a history. Actually, it turned out after
supposedly had planned on killing a policeman
that told someone this, but he starts, moving
the weapon towards ben and his partner who's
already kind of in the what they call it the
the funnel of death or whatever the term is you
know um and he ends up shooting him you know
and now and it was the same kind of thing initially
he was cleared and then they they went back and
go oh actually you were a murderer and they threw
the book at him and he's now in prison so yeah
it's it's heartbreaking to hear i mean when there's
people have done something wrong in uniform they
should absolutely pay for it 100 But when they're
put in a situation where they don't have a choice,
but to take that action, that's a completely
different conversation. All right. Well, then
I want to bring you into Afghanistan so we can
bring Aziz back into the conversation. So what
I would love to do, I've had some of your fellow
Marine recons on. Rudy Reyes is one of them.
Major James Capers, who's incredible Vietnam,
you know, era recon, one of the original recon
Marines. But what I like to do is this. For the
average civilian, in America especially, we get
a very polarized view of war. It's either they're
all a bunch of baby killers or it's, you know,
kill them all let God sort them out. And the
reality is our men and women are sent overseas
to try and help people who are being oppressed
in their own country. And so it's very important
that we hear, you know, the kind of pros and
the cons, if you like, of that. So the first
part of the conversation, you've already obviously
been through a huge amount of trauma in your
own childhood. Then you've worked in uniform
in multiple positions and seen and done things
then. When you got to Afghanistan, regardless
of the politics, I mean, obviously, you know,
9 -11 was a pretty significant event. But aside
from that, regardless of what sent you over there,
was there a moment where you realized that in
that country, there were atrocities and, you
know, some horrendous people that need to be
taken care of? Yeah, you know, I had a very unique
job, like Aziz was saying, you know, I was a
force recon Marine, but I, you know, I didn't
deploy in that traditional sense. I was, I, I
was selected to go to a JSOC task force, a joint
special operations command task force with one,
the premier. you know in my opinion the premier
special operations unit in the world so i was
extremely privileged to go to this unit and uh
and my job there was the afo advanced force operator
which means i worked in a singleton capacity
the best way i know how to describe it to people
listening is probably like undercover cop and
uh to go ahead of my unit and do build all the
clandestine infrastructure to put our soldiers
on target to capture kill bad guys so when you
see you know guys going to unpermissive area
uh and kicking a door and capture, kill a bad
guy, they didn't get there by accident. Somebody
was there on the ground before them setting that
whole operation up and building a clandestine
infrastructure to put them on the ground. That's
the AFOs. And so you will usually work by yourself
or with a teammate. And so my job was working
with Aziz. A lot of times people ask, man, how'd
you work with the same interpreter for eight
deployments? It's because of the nature of that
job. We had the rapport. So Aziz and I worked
alone together a lot. A lot. And and so I think
when we were done operating, I didn't go back
to base and he went home like I was with him.
We lived out in community together. So that gave
me a very unique opportunity to learn who the
Taliban was, what Aziz and people like Aziz had
been through before America got there and learning
atrocities. They were under the oppression of
Taliban and put them under the. The the things
that they do to women, not just that, you know,
you think, oh, it's terrible. They won't let
them go to go to school and be educated. That's
very much the least of the things that they have
to deal with. You know, being forced to live
in a home. And I heard Afghan women saying, if
you just pretend to be like an aunt, then the
house will seem bigger. Right. Like like the
thought of being imprisoned in your own home
for your whole your whole life and then being
sexually. you know, sexually forced into marriage
or as a nine -year -old girl to a 50 -year -old
guy and being forced to be sexually enslaved
for your whole life and your parents, your own
parents sold you for, you know, 500 bucks to
this 50 -year -old man. I mean, imagine like
what that life would be like. So the Taliban,
this is the things the Taliban put on them, beating
women for reading a book, you know, or for accidentally.
Their sleeve accidentally came up and they showed
their wrist and they're not going to get beaten.
Raping them because they made themselves seem
promiscuous. So now it's okay for a man to rape
them. And now their whole life's ruined. Their
whole family will abandon them because of this.
So I really began to understand who the Taliban
was, the sexual molestation, little boys and
little girls. And Aziz really exposed me to that.
I mean, there's a part in the book talking about
the killing pool. The way that started, and I
actually wrote about it in two different books
because it was so profound to me. I wrote about
it in my book, An Unfair Advantage, and in a
new book, Saving Aziz. But in 2004, there was
a presidential election between President Bush
and John Kerry. And Aziz invited me over to the
election party. And I'm like, you guys have an
election party? Like for the US election? This
thing was like a Super Bowl party in the United
States. Like I've never seen Americans. Hold
an election party like this. And by the way,
just like pre Donald Trump, but people didn't
get crazy about presidential elections. Like
this was like a really big deal. And I was like
blown away that these guys would have like family
over food. They're glued to TV. And I'm like,
what are they so interested in this for? Well,
they were worried that John Kerry will get elected,
that they would pull U .S. troops out of Afghanistan,
just like what happened in 2021. And the Taliban
would come back in. So it may be it may be first
realized. the impact that a strong or weak America
has on the world. We think about a strong or
weak America's national defense and our commander
in chief, what it does for us in the United States,
but the impact we have on the world. It was my
first glimpse of that, how worried they were
about our national policy. Watching President
Bush win and seeing how excited everyone was
and people start dancing and eating food. And
that's what Afghans do when they're excited to
dance and eat food. Well, the good guys do. The
bad guys start shooting things. But I remember
talking to Aziz about it and just blown away
by it. He wanted to show me. So he took me to
this apartment building in town where when Taliban
was in charge, they would go and a lot of women,
single women lived there. They would go there
and do kind of like a prison inspection, you
know, turning over the cots and inspecting for
contraband. And they would rape women there.
And women would throw themselves off of this
roof because they didn't want to be raped, including
one of Aziz's relatives that he had told me about
that had threw herself off the roof there just
not to be raped by the Taliban. And that level
of oppression, you know, imagine, you know, that
level of oppression. People talk about, you know,
that in America. Where you have little girls
throwing themselves off of roofs because they
don't want to face their enforcers. And then
he took me to this place right – I had a house,
and across the street was this hill. And on top
of this hill was this Russian -built swimming
pool that the Soviets had built there where they
would practice. It was an Olympic pool. They
would practice for the Olympic Games there. High
dive towers, and it was drained. And as I remember
Aziz and I walking up, some kids scurried off.
And, uh, there was a, the top, uh, top platform
was a steel cable hung through, which was a noose
to hang people from. Uh, and then you go down
in the pool and, uh, and both ends, they're like
riddled with thousands of bullet holes. And you
can, I took my, my Leatherman out and pulled
some casings out. And you know, that those casings
went through people's bodies or heads and there
were mass executions done in this pool. And as
you said, you know how they would hang people
there and they would throw people off the top.
the top like garbage and killed them right in
front of their families and you know this is
where mass executions happen and uh and i remember
just like my whole perspective changing when
aziz showed me this like i went there because
a angry american rightfully angry that uh people
came to our country and flew two airplanes in
the world trade center buildings and killed you
know thousands of americans that they they attacked
our pentagon and flew a plane into our pentagon
which is you know to me should be one of the
most protected places on the on the planet And
so that's why I went there. But when Aziz exposed
me to what the Afghan people had been through,
my perspective really changed. I think I matured
a lot that day to realize, you know, America's
place in this world is not just to protect our
country, but because of that strength, we have
this responsibility to help people that can't
help themselves. Those Afghan people aren't in
a position to help themselves. And so we had
an opportunity to not only make America a safer
place. protect these people who have been truly
oppressed by the Taliban regime and give them
the opportunity to live safe lives. I don't believe
in America being the world police, but when we
have an opportunity like that, we should execute
it. And men like Aziz, who came back to Afghanistan
when he was safe in Dubai, came back to Afghanistan
to build a country where his daughters could
go to school and be free and his daughters could
live a life. to where they're not going to be
forced to be raped their whole life. And I was
there when his oldest son, Mashoud, was born
and his oldest daughter, Mashouda, was born.
And to see him as a father, and I was a father
at the time too, like see him as a father, say,
I don't want my daughter to go through this.
I'm willing to go out there in the mountains
with you and do these operations because I want
it for free. He wasn't looking for a meal ticket
to America. He's here because he has to be, but
he wanted a free Afghanistan. He was fighting
for it. And he's one example of so many brave
Afghans who fought for the freedom. And I tell
you, one of the things that during the evacuations
that got under my skin the most was when the
president of the United States got on the news
and stood behind a microphone and said, how can
we help these people when they won't fight for
themselves? That was the most disrespectful and
put fire in my vein statement One, he's never
been there, but 60 ,000 Afghans like Aziz died
in the last 20 years fighting for their country
to protect their country and fight for freedom.
60 ,000 brave Afghans chose not to be on the
Taliban side where it would have been easy. They
chose to be on the side of the resistance to
fight for their daughters and fight for their
freedom and fight for their freedom in their
country. And that's just the ones that put on
the uniform. That's not the hundreds of thousands
of Afghan civilians that died. I mean, that's
equivalent like. per capita ratio, like our civil
war, uh, they, they bravely fought for their
country and, uh, and they didn't quit and lay
down their arms. We quit on them. And, uh, I
mean, you wonder like, how could they turn this,
this videos of Afghans, like crying, having to
turn their rifles over. I mean, they're not out
on deployment in another country, their fam,
their wives and kids are down the street. Like
if they fight when. They had their air resource
taken away. They had the entire strength of the
international community that was fighting the
Taliban and supporting and advising them that
was taken away overnight. If they keep fighting,
it's not just them that's going to get killed.
Most of those guys would fight to the death.
I know because I've been there. But they're going
to watch their wives be stuck in wood chippers
and their daughters be raped in front of them.
We did that to them. We forced. We quit. They
didn't quit. And so, you know, for any. Afghan
interpreter listening or people still, these
guys still, I know, and people that were there
know that they did, they were brave warriors
and willing to fight till the end. And it wasn't
us. It wasn't them that quit. It was, you know,
it was our government, not us. I'll say our government
that quit on them. And, you know, and by heart,
always be apologetic to that as an American.
Well, I mean, thank you. Like I said, this is
what we need to hear. These are the stories.
This is what I've always kind of really. hated
is oh we're at war with afghanistan no we're
not at war with afghanistan there are extremists
in afghanistan murdering their own people that
our men and women are trying to help you know
liberate so aziz from your perspective as as
we've learned now you had the opportunity to
not be in afghanistan you deliberately ran towards
danger again to go and be part of the solution
in your own country so walk me through your journey
back from dubai back to afghanistan And then
through an Afghani's eyes, the Americans and
the other allied nations coming into your country
and then kind of your experience of those few
years. Well, as I said before, from the childhood,
I was really interested to see my country. uh
grow and uh you know the step towards modernization
especially when i was in dubai i saw these beautiful
buildings and the roads the infrastructure everything
was so nice and well uh done in united arab emirates
i mean the whole thing and then uh compared to
my country i became more and more uh interested
and convinced that if there is ever an opportunity
to help my country become similar to Dubai, I
would give all kinds of sacrifice to that one.
And as soon as the catastrophic attack happened
the 9 -11 on the United States when it happened
and I noticed the United States military presence
in a prisons in Afghanistan I Called my father
and I told him what should I do? He's like hey,
man You didn't learn all that English for no
reason for nothing. So this is your time. This
is your chance You need to come back. I'm like
I cannot come back to them the way that I came
because I used the boat and the gulf waters and
you know uh we got uh marked them to united arab
emirates by the pakistani and iranian border
police and it was so risky to take those rounds
again and then he's like okay just walk to them
one of the police stations and tell them everything
tell them the truth and they will probably send
you and that's what i did and i came as soon
as i came i took the opportunity I joined the
3rd US Special Forces Battalion in Kabul Military
Training Center. I was not only an interpreter,
I was a cultural advisor to them, I was a business
consultant, and I was almost like a teammate
because every... thing that they did I was physically
beside them I was doing the interpretation translation
and advising them because sometimes for those
that they use military soldiers sometimes they
didn't understand like for example when they
were going to intervene in one of the neighborhood
areas where they wanted to do house searches
you know like I was explaining that this is how
we need to approach this is uh good these are
bad these are the consequences different consequences
i was explaining to them and i took that as an
opportunity to fight for freedom for human rights
children's rights women right and overall peace
and democracy and stability, which was my hope
and my desire to see it for Afghanistan. And
it worked really nice with the help of the different
projects of the United States through USAID,
through U .S. military, through U .S. embassy,
and other private and government projects that
were going on. Like the first thing the United
States did to Afghanistan when they were there,
they imported electricity from Uzbekistan to
Afghanistan. 85 % of the country benefited from
that electricity. The roads were constructed,
the highways were paved, the schools were opened.
We were growing really fast and really nice because
of the keen... interest of the Afghan men and
women for democracy and peace for humanity. We
almost had like 66 TV channels, which is very
unique in the history of Afghanistan. All those
TVs were equipped with many different reporters
and all kinds of resources and equipments. And
their job was to promote peace stability democracy
and raise awareness among all those people that
are kept in the darkness for many different decades
in afghanistan through the civil wars so we had
over 100 something reviews that were also broadcasting
and helping and promoting peace, stability and
democracy, enduring freedom. And as well as,
you know, the army was growing really fast. The
police was growing. The Afghan National Department
of Security was growing really hard. It became,
the Afghan military became a unique and strong
military in the region. by the help of the United
States military that even Iran or the neighbor
countries like Pakistan, like Tajikistan, like
Uzbekistan, they were feeling a pity because
they could not compete with these soldiers. They
were that strong. They were that interested and
growing. Everything comes from the faith, from
the interest, from the... brightness and open
minds. And all these open -minded Afghans, they
were helping each other and we were growing.
But unfortunately, as Chad mentioned before,
that because of the big decision by President
Biden, we lost everything. On the other hand,
if you look at it, Afghanistan's government,
the very young democracy in Afghanistan, that
was all... dependent, it was not independent,
it was dependent on the United States financial
aid, the United States military support, and
all these other different projects that were
there from the European communities, from the
international community, from the United States.
But, you know, I'm not sure why, but it happened,
a big decision. changed everything. And also,
it's not only the United States decision, it's
also the corrupt Afghan leaders that were unfortunately
put in the process, in the leadership. Some people
that they had two passports, they were not Afghans,
they had American passports, they had passports
from European countries, they had passports from
neighboring countries. they were somehow through
their network, through their connections, brought
and put in the leadership. And this was also
one of the main weakness that the government
collapsed immediately because if the leadership
was chosen from the original Afghans, the Afghans
like interpreters, like all those soldiers that
nights and days. They were there defending their
homeland. If the leadership was chosen from those
category, I assure you that we would not be the
witness of this shameful failure in Afghanistan
because all these people like President Ghani,
President Karzai was involved in many different...
smuggling of poppies. His brothers were involved.
Ghani has a very bad, corrupt history. When he
was the finance minister in Afghanistan, there
were some reports that he stole a lot of money
from the Ministry of Finance, and he did the
same thing while at the end of his presidency
in Afghanistan, when he was running away from
the country. There was no such a pure Clean Afghan
leadership on the top. We really needed a leadership
that it broke from two sides on one hand the
withdrawal of the US military prisons and the
stop of the Financial aid for them on the other
hand the weakness and the crap leader of Afghanistan
It caused all this damage and all these in the
chain of command all these lower Management like
army like you know that uh several institutions
they they failed very quickly so uh there were
uh lots of improvements happening in the country
uh even though with all that uh crap uh leadership
that was there it was improving every day it
was improving if president biden kept like at
least 1 ,000 soldiers in one of the bases like
Bagram Air Base, which is very strategic for
the United States also and for Afghanistan. I
assure you that the government would still continue
and because everything was really nice and well
instructed and built for them. Everything was
running really nice and neat. The military could
only Be there just to show their presence. Inside
the base, the Afghan army, police, and India
was capable of controlling the front lines without
the international military presence on the front
lines. The only thing that the Afghan army needed
at that time was the maintenance of their air
force because they didn't have the technicians
and experts like after. every plane went and
did the mission and came back they needed some
maintenance and there were lots of hopes interest
and there were hundreds of thousands of afghan
men and women that loved the country and they
were working from the deep of their heart but
you know maybe god's plan was different and we
lost everything Well, I'm going to jump over
to Chad for a moment, Aziz, because I know he's
got to go, but we can carry on after we let him
kind of close up on his side. So, Chad, I would
love to hear your perspective of, you know, realizing
that there was this horrendous withdrawal. I
mean, you know, the actual decision to at some
point have to put a, you know, a terminology
and ending to a particular conflict. Obviously,
you know. May have to happen if we're not progressing
from a certain other country's perspective. But
how we do that is another entire conversation.
So we have this mass withdrawal. We left so many
of these incredible men and women that have supported
their own country and ours as well. Talk to me
about that withdrawal. Save our allies, Tim Kennedy.
Although the amazing people that you're around
and your kind of lens on trying to. basically
rescue this incredible man that you've worked
alongside for all these deployments? Yeah, I
think, you know, by now, hopefully everybody
realizes how special of a human being Aziz is.
And, you know, he'll work in the capacity we
did. You know, he saved my life multiple times.
I've watched him. I mean, he just got, I think,
is the highest award any Afghans ever got from
the United States. Aziz just got an award from
Congress for his. role uh we nominated him for
rescuing four navy seals that were trapped behind
enemy lines and uh you know uh myself and him
and some other people went and did that and you
know as he's led that effort and uh you know
it's pretty pretty sketchy pretty sketchy night
and uh he put his that was just one example i
mean that was one we were able to talk about
where he was you know put his life on the line
again he saved my life like three times tangibly
but probably saved my life every day like don't
walk there don't eat that don't talk to that
person don't don't speak right now are they gonna
kill us Like, you know, he saved my life every
day. And he not only was my teammate, but my
friend. And, you know, him, his family, they're
very close to me. And I consider them family.
And we had been trying for six years to get him
out through that very broken immigration process
called the SIV, Special Immigrant Visa Process.
It's only supposed to take nine months. But in
his case, it was six years for someone who did
15 years in special operations community, vetted,
polygraphed, accessed the top secret information.
Six years and not getting through that. It's
supposed to take nine months. It's a broken system.
And so when I seen the withdrawal happening back
in as early as April, I'm like, we got to get
Aziz, his wife and six kids and start putting
some efforts together. But by the time June rolled
around, we knew like this is going to have this
is happening faster than we expected. We're going
to have to go in now and get them. We had tried
a couple of like traditional like efforts immigration
wise, not just through the State Department,
but through United Arab Emirates. And it just
wasn't happening. So we're going to have to go
get him. So I started calling some people at
late July, August, and said, we'll put a team
together to go get him. One of the first people
I called was Tim Kennedy. Not because of the
Tim Kennedy that everybody knows publicly wise,
but because I was looking for some specific qualifications
for the guys I called. One is that they had AFO
or ASO level training, meaning they had the ability
to operate independently. and had that experience
and training. That was one. I was looking for
special operations guys with that. Two, I was
looking for mature special operations guys that
had been in combat and wasn't looking to go out
and get some. They weren't looking to go sow
their wild oats. They had no ego, nothing left
to prove. They had already been around because
this wasn't a combat mission, as opposed to what
some people might have looked at us doing and
thought this wasn't a cowboy operation. This
would have to be a very mature, calculated, and
planned operation to work with multinational
efforts in our U .S. government. the belt to
go and do this. And I didn't want anything bad
to happen because some immature person was trying
to, you know, fill their wild oats and have some
kind of angst towards the Taliban. There wasn't
a time and place for it. And then with Tim specifically,
I knew I was going to have to raise a lot of
money. Ultimately, we ended up spending about
$30 million. So, like, I needed somebody else
that could help be a public face for it. Tim
had all those criteria. So he's one of the first
people I called. A lot of people, you know, I
think Joe Roberts, I can mention his name, Recon
Marine. We had some SEALs there. Sean G, I can't
say his full name. Sea Spray, if you've seen
the documentary Sea Spray. So guys from Green
Berets, CIA's Ground Branch, really experienced
guys. And as we're planning to go get Aziza's
family, one of the guys said, hey, this group
of 3 ,500 orphans. And so it was a moment where
we kind of paused and said, man, like getting
them would be great, but we need to get, we have
the amazing group of talent that are willing
and feel burdened to go help. Let's get as many
Americans, interpreters, their families, women,
children, Christians that'd be persecuted. Let's
get as many people as we can. And I think that
was a call that we felt everybody there, I think
is pretty strong people of faith. We all felt
like God had burdened our heart to go help. And,
uh, and I think that, that obedience to say,
okay, yes, we're going to do it. Not knowing
exactly how, uh, being honest, uh, we knew we
had experience, but you know, the plan, like
we're going to do this impossible thing that
some doors got to open that we don't have any
control open. So they had an element of faith
there beyond that, that decision of obedience,
uh, to do that, to meet that burden on our hearts.
I think we, we witnessed a sheer miracle and
I won't preach to everybody, but I will say that,
uh, It was certainly in my perspective, a divine
miracle, because what happened in the next three
days after the decision was something that I'm
not capable of or smart enough of or can't even
explain. Sarah Verardo got in touch with the
Joint Chiefs. The Joint Chiefs love or hate General
Milley. I know most people probably in the military
community don't like General Milley, but he gave
us permission to get to go on that airport. and
be the only civilians there in the airport to
be able to go off base and do a civilian evacuation.
So we got that door. That is an impossible door
to open, by the way, that in itself. Secondly,
they agreed to take our manifest and approve
them to be able to move people out. So now we
had the ability for the United States military.
the Joint Chiefs to allow us on the airport and
then approve our manifest, which by the way,
the DOD planes flying out didn't get approved
manifest, the NGOs we had to, which is really
good, you know, that we're not flying out any
random person. And I know a lot of people are
concerned, and I was too, that we're bringing
out people that we know who know who they are.
All of our groups, we knew the SIVs, P1, P2 visas
are legitimately orphans or widows or Christians.
I mean, personally, like pretty legitimate validation
of all our people that we got out. In addition,
In addition, I think a lot of people had said,
it's like a cowboy effort. Like we're going in
there and getting away in the military. If anybody
paused with common sense for a moment and said,
do this group of veterans, how would it be possible
for us to go in a military DOD controlled airport,
go outside the wire, rescue people, load them
with C -17 airplanes and fly them? Like that's
not even possible. So the thought that we would
like cowboyishly go and. and force our way onto
a DOD controlled airport in the middle of a war
zone and evacuate people. It's just ludicrous
that people would even think that. But people
thought that made the accusation. It was very
coordinated with the United States government
and a legitimate effort that was all done in
cooperation with the United States DOD and the
Joint Chiefs. So that was one miracle, in my
opinion. Two, if you're going to bring someone
outside of the... a country without a visa you
can't bring them somewhere without any kind of
permissions or that's human trafficking so you
have to have permission so we called uh some
connections we had at the united arab emirates
the royal family we asked them for permission
to be able to get on the airport uh onto the
uh into uae and they offered us their humanitarian
center uh and doctors and everything we would
have never thought of in a humanitarian center
and say we're gonna roll out the right carpet
if you get these people here we're gonna take
care of them And then the State Department would
have to move them on from there. We're not bringing
people to America. We're bringing people to a
lily pad place. The State Department's responsibility
to say yes or no to America or any other country
they would go to. So that was another miracle
that we've seen happen. And then the UAE came
back and said, in addition to that, we're going
to give you a C -17 plane. If you fill it up,
we'll give you a second one. uh and the pilots
to do it and we're going to let you have access
to a operation center to run your operation out
of so they rolled out the red carpet for us amazing
people at the uae and the royal family so big
thanks to them and definitely go out of them
way to say thank you in the book you know in
the book that we have uh with them and then uh
then the last thing that i thought was just crazy
was that was that after all that happened the
next day glenn beck calls me and the only weapon
that glenn beck has is a microphone right and
uh you know and he has a big one And he just
wanted to do something like a lot of people.
He just wanted to do something. He did what he
knew how to do. And he went on the radio and
asked for support. And he thought he'd get a
couple of thousand dollars. Well, he got $21
million in like three days. And then he ultimately
got like $40 something million. And he called
me up and was like, hey, we got this money that
we just raised and we don't have an operation.
can you, what can we do? And so I said, we can
buy planes, we can rent, you know, pay for planes.
And so he put a guy named Rudy Atala in touch
with me and Rudy's amazing guy, military veteran
and specializes in this kind of stuff. And we
worked together and was able to pay for a lot
of planes. So all those things, like I said,
any one of those things would have went wrong
and would not been able to do this. Everything
came together in a small window of time. And
a guy just opened these doors that allowed us
the opportunity to go in and help. And we went
in. I was in Abu Dhabi doing operations side.
We had a ground team at the airport in Kabul
going out. Some U .S. military personnel, special
operations personnel was even able to work with
us. That's who actually grabbed Aziz for us.
Amazing guys from the U .S. Air Force special
operations were able to grab Aziz and we write
about it in a book. And we got Aziz's family
out that day, about 180 people. The next day,
we got 800 people. The next day, like a thousand
people. And honestly, it was all a blur because.
Our team in Abu Dhabi, our team in the States,
our team at the airport in Kabul, no one slept.
Because if you stop to sleep like five minutes,
like somebody's dying because you're sleeping.
So it was like sleeping and kind of nodding off
when you could. But it was like nonstop. I mean,
sea spray lost 37 pounds in 10 days, just not
stopping on the ground, moving, grabbing people.
And when the Abbey Gate was blown up and 13 of
our service members died that day, the gates
were all shut and the evacuations were over.
uh at the airport and we realized we had got
out like 12 000 people and at that moment the
u .s military had to leave and we realized we
didn't we didn't have to leave like we're not
in the military we don't have to leave we could
stay and uh the news was reporting there was
100 americans still there that's what the white
house said we knew on the ground and this isn't
a political debate like i'm telling you firsthand
there were thousands of americans still there
and uh but it doesn't matter if they were the
white house said there's 100 or we said there's
a thousand one american left behind us is, is,
is one too many. Like you, we don't leave Americans
behind where I come from. Like even some traitor
idiot, like Joe Bird doll, like we knew we were
going to lose people's lives to go rescue him.
But if Americans left behind their, their choice
or not, like you will scorch the earth around
them to go get them. That's like the promise
that the American people have, uh, when they
were abroad in dangerous places. And, uh, so
we chose to stay and we ended up working with
a lot of other amazing nonprofits over the next
two months. at a place called Mazar Sharif and
flew out another 5 ,000 people, totaled the evacuation
that we were part of at 17 ,000 people. And then
we knew there was still more to do. All the Afghans
had moved to a place called the Panjshir Valley
where Ahmad Massoud's son was leading a resistance
and they felt safe there. And they were trying
to cross into Tajikistan, but if anybody geographically
familiar with that area, there's like 25 ,000
foot peaks. And if you made it through there,
like a family would take like a week to make
it through those mountains, those valleys to
get to the border. Well, if you made it there
and didn't know where you were going, you might
end up at a thousand foot cliff. Or the Panjshir
River is like category five in some points. Slushy,
like, I mean, when I say slushy, like the water
is so cold that it stops and freezes. So navigating
that geographically is difficult, maybe impossible.
Then you have the Taliban controlling that border
with checkpoints every mile. And then. And then
you had the Chinese military on that border keeping
people in Afghanistan. You had the Russian military.
And I mean, we they were the border was saturated.
And then you had Tajikistan border police. So
that border was very difficult to cross. So we
said they're never going to be able to cross
this. But one more thing we can do is we can
go on the other side and do it, you know, kind
of a traditional recon, a forced recon job. We
can do route reconnaissance on that other side
or affording. forwarding routes which means going
across and looking at how to cross rivers that's
a forwarding site report we can provide that
information so we decided to put a small two
-man team together myself and uh staff sergeant
dennis price who was just got off active duty
uh was like the perfect guy for me for the job
he had served at jsoc he was a four -shoe com
marine of the year a couple of times scout sniper
like taught scout snipers that like he taught
like all over the world, even taught Army SF
sniper school, which is like, I think, the only
non -SF guy to teach there. Very highly skilled
scout sniper, which we didn't need a sniper,
but the skill sets that come with a guy like
that is really high level. And so I asked his
command, because I knew his commander, Lieutenant
Colonel Tommy Waller, I said, Can you guys cut
Staff Sergeant Price loose for a humanitarian
effort? Because, you know, the military wasn't
allowed to participate. And he said, I don't
know, let's put it in writing. And we did. And
another miracle, the Marine Corps let him come
with us. And, you know, and he came with me and
the two of us flew into Tajikistan and we spent
10 days on that border doing about 90 miles of
border reconnaissance. At nighttime, we would,
once we identified a crossing, we would. swim
across the panjshir river in afghanistan and
build the routes on both sides and provide that
information reports some of our government intelligence
agencies that wanted that information non -government
organizations like non -profits that were doing
evacuations and then to the afghan people stuck
in the panjshir valley and so their commandos
could lead them out across We did that for about
10 days. And I mean, the border was saturated
with foreign intelligence units and Chinese special
operations and Russians and Tajiks. And on the
other side, the Taliban checkpoints everywhere.
I mean, at times we were about within 30 yards
of Taliban. And and, you know, but, you know,
we were able to provide some. Really, really
incredible intelligence to be able to get people
out safely. And as that wrapped up, that kind
of ended our efforts and the most that we could
do. I mean, it still is heartbreaking because
there's so many people. 70 ,000 people sounds
like a lot, but there's 40 million people in
Afghanistan and 20 million women and children
that are still going to be persecuted and sexually
enslaved. And, you know, I think of these 20
million women and we could have did so much more.
And right now I still get emails every day, people
begging, like literally begging, voice clubs
begging, like, please, my family's being killed.
And I wish there was more that we could do. And
we've done everything that we can so far. And
our State Department has really just blocked
us from being able to help anymore. And so I
thought all this belonged in a kind of journal
to tell the American people in the world, not
just American people in the world, what really
happened. uh in afghanistan i tried to write
it in a non -biased political way i'm a super
conservative dude but i didn't want to make it
a political attack job in the white house but
you know it's just kind of the truth kind of
falls that way uh but it's just the truth of
what happened and it's my story with disease
uh the evacuations and uh we put it all in the
book i have amazing publisher thomas nelson harper
collins and we and uh so the book is i don't
know when this is dropping but saving aziz uh
had a mission to save help one turned into calling
to save thousands It's January 17th. The book
drops, but you can pre -order it on Amazon or
any bookstore has it. It is being made into a
motion picture film. I really don't care about
any of that other than people need to know the
truth about what happened so it never happens
again. One, for the sake of the national security
of America because we need allies around the
world who's going to depend on us. Two, We just
can't do that. We gave up the most strategic
place on the globe between Iraq, Iran, Russia,
and China. That wasn't ours to give away. It
was the entire international community's effort
that was supporting and advising the Afghan national
army and Afghan national police, you know, British
and Germany and Canada. Everybody was doing the
right thing and working in a total international
coalition to keep terrorism not being in the
mountains of Afghanistan. We had 2 ,500 troops
there at one time. We still have 80 ,000 troops
in Japan since World War II and 35 ,000 in South
Korea and 40 ,000 in Germany. Why did we need
to leave the most strategic place on the globe
to turn that strategic location over to our enemies,
Iran, China, Pakistan's ISI, Russia? I mean,
why did we have to turn this place over? It was
completely political, cost American lives. and
abandoned our allies and weakened our security
in the world and made the world a much more dangerous
place. And so the war needs no truth about that.
And by the way, the book was spent five months
at the Pentagon to get the DOD review and got
redacted. But nonetheless, I didn't take any
of the redactions out. So you'll see all the
black lines stayed in it. So the American people
and the people of the world could see. When the
government doesn't want them to see. Well, Chad,
I want to thank you so much. I know you've got
to leave us now. I would love to actually do
a part two with you because we didn't even really
scrape the surface of not only the military side
for you, but also martial arts and some of these
other areas, mental health, Mighty Oaks. Anytime.
Let's come back on and do it again. I apologize
that I have to go to another one, but I would
love to come back on anytime. Aziz is free, so
Aziz can talk. for everyone this absolutely well
thank you so much so i'll go back to you then
aziz um so again here you are six years of trying
to you know get to the u .s after you know this
amazing service that you had for your country
and and you know obviously the danger that was
to you and your family walk me through that kind
of um build up towards 2021 and and the evacuation
through your eyes It was really challenging,
it was really challenging, really heartbreaking
for me to see that happen. I did not predict
that. I learned that I ... I believe that the
country will collapse as that quick because I
was really counting on the Afghan National Army,
the police, the Indians, because they were equipped
with all kinds of resources, training and, you
know, physical capacity. But because of the leadership
that it collapsed and the Doha Agreement, it
actually became a chaos. as my siv application
was a total failure every time i emailed the
uscis and asked them about the status of my siv
visa they came with the same questions or same
reasonings like first of all they were asking
for a contract number that was not possible for
me at all because i served under a classified
version contract that even an american cannot
have access to that one And on the other hand,
they were saying that, you know, I needed a letter
from like a U .S. Army general. The team guys,
they provided a letter from James Edward Craft,
Brigadier General, who was the assistant of the
Resolute Support in Kabul. But still, that contract
number was missing over there. And again, it
went to the missing list of the documents. And
so I was just waiting and praying and hoping
that one day it will happen. But when President
Biden announced the total withdrawal of the military
troops, and still I didn't take it serious because
I was thinking that we have 300 ,000 Afghan armies.
thousands of police and NDS. At least it will
continue like maybe three years, maybe four years.
There will be fights. But the Taliban, on the
other hand, when you look at it, they were not
that much. They were only like 60, 70 ,000 barbaric
group of Taliban that were trained and kept in
safe havens inside Pakistan over the last two
decades. And I did not see a total collapse of
the government. so i was really counting on it
and then as soon as president biden announced
and the doha agreement was done and you know
i was uh witnessing the collapse of The different
provinces of Afghanistan, Afghanistan has 34
provinces. I was witnessing like those provinces
that are more to the eastern side of Pakistan.
They are connected with Pakistan, like Jalalabad,
like Khaos province, like Kandahar. They collapsed
immediately. And when they collapsed. This barbaric
regime, the Taliban, they killed hundreds of
commandos. They enslaved their females. And they
killed people. Then they hanged them on the trees.
They hanged them on the walls. And it was really
heartbreaking. So as continuously it was coming,
I went to my safe room. got out all my guns and
ammo i was living in a house that had like five
stores and i put my guns in each corner i decided
with myself if they come from this corner i will
shoot them from here if they come from this one
i will use this gun and ammunition so i got my
readiness and as i got my readiness i was waiting
and i was also contacting with chad and daniel
stinson and the other teammates too find a way
to get out because if it was only about me, I
would give my guns and ammunitions. I would run
away to the mountains and continue the resistance
against them. But when you have a family, I have
three daughters, three sons, and my wife, and
it was really, really difficult for me. The challenges,
the struggles that I experienced in my childhood,
in my life, my children didn't see that because
I worked hard for them. And, you know, my children
had a really good childhood and a really good
life. They did not know about the consequences
of what I was doing. And they didn't have any
idea what was coming at them. So the kids and
my wife, they seemed nervous as they were watching
the news. And they were looking at me and they
were becoming suspicious every minute after that.
After every province has collapsed and there
was news on the TV that they killed this many
soldiers, the 16th slave, this many girls on
the northern provinces of Afghanistan. They killed
this many interpreters, those who are allies
of the United States. They captured them, they
tortured them, and they killed them, and they
forced married their daughters. And according
to the justification that they have from the
Quran, the Muslim religious boat that, you know,
when they kill the people or the people who work
for the infidels, because they call us infidels,
all the Americans, the interpreters, the ex -Afghan
army or government. And, you know, they have
their own justifications. They would just force
marry their wives and daughters. And, you know,
I was contacted with Chad and Dan and they were
praying over me through the phone and they're
like, hey, brother, don't worry. I'm in Washington,
D .C. talking to some very high ranking guys.
They know how hard you work for this nation.
They have your documents and we are trying to
come up with a plan and we will save you. No
worries. On the 15th of August, the government
collapsed. The five days that I experienced in
my life from 15 to 20, I never and ever seen
such a horrible time in my life. Although I was
a strong man, I had military experience. I had,
you know, all kinds of experiences in my life
like hunger. I knew how to handle it. uh those
the challenge that was coming but because of
my children and my daughters every minute i look
at them and what was coming at us i was losing
my internal spiritual energy my body was dying
totally I don't know what was happening although
I was trying to hold myself very strong and carrying
my guns with me and ammunitions and I knew that
my friends will come and save me but still my
body was losing the energy and I was becoming
weaker and weaker like on the 15th when Daniel
Stinson he called me and told me hey Aziz we
are in Abu Dhabi We're coming to Kabul to save
you. But before that, I need you to go and do
me a recon. It was like around noontime that
he called me. I could still see the Afghan soldiers
in the capital because the capital did not collapse
on the 15th, as I was witness of that. And I
called this driver because I could not use my
own cars. uh because they were really famous
people knew me i called this taxi driver who
was a friend of me i told him hey i need your
help Come home and take me with you. I got my
guns and my camera. I did a recon around the
Kabul International Airport. I took pictures
all the way through the U .S. Embassy, the different
gates that the Kabul International Airport had.
My cousin, who was a border police inside the
Kabul International Airport, with the help of
him, I got inside the international terminal,
the local civilian terminal. I took pictures
because... My brother Dan, who was in Abu Dhabi,
he told me that he needed to have a very good
recon. I needed to make him a presentation PowerPoint
so that when they come here, where they can bring
people in and where they can process them, kind
of like a CBP process, because they need to check
documents, they need to do fingerprints, they
need to do eye prints, interview. So they wanted
to make sure that the bad guys do not get inside
all these immigrants that are trying to free
the country. And, you know, I came back home
and I provided all these things and sent it to
him. But then the next day, that night when they
landed in Kabul airport, like in the next morning,
they send me a GPS location. They're like, hey,
Aziz, you and your family and children, you know,
come to this location and call us. We will come
to get you. As soon as I tried there, I saw that
it was a chaos. It was not possible for me to
go inside. First of all, like right before the
government collapsed, a few days before, my wife
had appendix. And we did an operation on her.
But unfortunately, because of the low quality
of medicines in Afghanistan and the inexperienced
doctors, the appendix area was infected badly.
It was full of all the dirty water. And she could
not walk with me. She was really experiencing
pain and she was crying. She's like, hey, Aziz,
I cannot do this. I would rather die in my house
instead of die on the streets. And people stepped
on me because that's what happened. When we faced
the Taliban checkpoints, they were shooting at
us. I was all covered. I had my Afghan jammies.
And then I slowly sneaked in from them. Then
the second line there was the Afghan Zero Units.
The Zero Units were the guys that were trained
by the CIA to counter terrorism at the ex -government
time. So they were used during the evacuation
in the second line of security around the airport.
And, you know, then they started shooting at
me. And then I explained to them and, you know,
I showed them my documents and stuff. And then
they let me to go inside. As soon as I tried
to go inside, then all these young Marines are
over there with their Humvees and tongues. And,
you know, they are shooting at me. And I'm like,
hey, man, I'm one of the United States allies.
These are my documents. Please give me a chance.
I want to show you my documents. And they're
like, no, no, I don't know you. You're not supposed
to be here. Go, go. And they're firing at me
and firing. And then I got really disappointed,
and I called Chad, and I'm like, hey, brother,
it's not possible. Those guys that they're inside
the airport, the team guys for Chad and Dan,
is it possible to come outside and save us? He's
like, let me talk to them. He talked to them,
but for some reason, I think the military did
not let these guys to come out. They told me
to tell these Marine guys that I work for Chad.
He's a famous guy. And I told them, I'm like,
hey, Google Chad. Do you know Chad Robichaud?
Google him. He's my brother. He's my friend.
I work for him. And still, they refused me. They
rejected me. They didn't accept me. We had to
come back home. We faced several Taliban checkpoints
on the road between the home and the airport.
I saw ladies who were shot at their heads because
of all these different firings that the Taliban,
the Zionists and the Marines were doing to spread
the crowd out because everybody wanted to save
their own interpreters or allies, like the Brits
were trying to save their interpreters, Canadians,
Italians, Germans, Australians, you know, all
the NATO. groups were there and there were different
kinds of processings and every gate was busy
by a specific country so we came back home although
in one of the checkpoints they shot at us while
we were coming home because My friend this guy
was a taxi driver. I have my six kids with me
and myself We're all packed up. They try to stop
us and I have my documents with me I told my
friend that taxi driver to not stop because if
they search and they see these documents we are
done We are done on the on the middle of the
street. So you have to run away they shoot at
us Luckily we didn't shoot on the car, but they
shoot in the air. So we ran away into the streets
and came home like five days in a row. Several
times, these guys would send me the GPS locations
that, hey, Aziz, try this location. When I tried
that location, as soon as I arrived near the
airport, hundreds of thousands of people are
outside the airport, elbowing each other, pushing
each other, trying to get inside the airport.
to get on the plane and leave the country. It
was not possible for me. So it was really disappointing
and heartbreaking. And every time I tried it,
we failed. So I called this guy, Sean, who was
inside the airport with Alex, the teammates for
Chad. I told him, brother, it's not possible.
It's because my wife is really in pain. My kids
are crying. And if you guys... At least come
by the gate or at least come to that area where
the Marines are. At least tell the Marines I
will pass the Taliban, I will pass the zero units,
but tell the Marines not to shoot at me and let
me in. Then he's like, okay, send me a family
picture so I can recognize you among the crowd.
I sent him a picture of my whole family and myself
and they sent me their pictures and another GPS
location on the 28th. That was the day after
a few hours of wait and a lot of firings at us,
accepting a lot of risks. We were finally able
to see each other in the crowd. He was by the
gate like 150 meters across the street. I saw
him. I'm like, hey, Sean, Sean, Sean. He didn't
hear. Then I'm like, hey, Aziz, Aziz, Aziz. Alex
told him, hey, that's Aziz, that's your man.
He's like, hey, man, we have been looking for
you. I'm like, tell those zero units not to shoot
at me because they were shooting at me. And they
let me in. But this time what happened was that
I left my children and my wife like a few kilometers
away from the crowd inside the taxi with my friend.
I came by myself. But once I met Sean and he
told the zero units that he needs to bring his
family in, do not shoot at him. I called my brother
-in -law and my friend who was in the taxi and
told him that, hey, please come and take this
route. I send them the GPS location. They're
like, hey, the Taliban are shooting at us. I
told them, pretend that, you know, we are not
coming to the airport. You are crossing the road.
Once you arrive to this location, just sneak
in. I'm here. I waited with the zero units. He
came and I received my family after a lot of
risks and difficulties. And, you know, my wife
was still crying. We saved her, brought her inside
the airport. Then I received a phone call from
Abu Dhabi, from Daniel Stinson, my brother. He's
like, hey, Aziz, there is this girl, Hodebia.
She's an American University of Afghanistan college
student. She's there by herself. Her family is
in Pakistan. She's been there for three, four
nights behind the airport in the crowd. She's
trying to get in. They are not allowing her.
Somebody pushed her from the wall. She fell off
and she's all wounded and really in pain. Bring
her food, water. Bring her with your family.
You are either bringing her. or you're not coming.
I'm like, I had to accept the risk again, leave
my family outside. But this time I was happy.
At least my family is safe. So I came back outside,
looked for this girl for a few hours. I found
her finally and brought her in. And again, you
know, several times I got shot at, you know,
the Taliban, Marines and the zero units again.
Then I had to call. alex and sean and they had
to come outside and same kind of procedure uh
help me out and then get in inside the airport
as soon as i was inside the airport because this
girl was all weak and wounded you know her hands
were black the neck was black she was all in
pain i was holding her like this to bring her
in so she doesn't fall and my wife noticed that
She's like, oh, what's that young girl doing
in my husband's house? She was really shocked.
And she thought that that's my second wife. I'm
trying to rescue her. Then, you know, I brought
her in and I explained everything to her and
told her to calm down. She's, you know, this
is Dan's friend. She's an American University
College student. She's by herself. She has no
body, so we need to save her. And I brought her
with myself as a daughter into the humanitarian
city. It was the first flight that myself, that
girl, and a few other guys in that plane, we
were evacuated into the Abu Dhabi humanitarian
city. This humanitarian city was, it was not
a humanitarian city. It was actually... A new
city was built by the royal family in Abu Dhabi
for the coronavirus patients. But since because
they didn't use it for that one, they give it
to us to use it. And, you know, they locked us
inside. They interviewed us, screened all our
information and put us in one of the blocks because
we were not vaccinated. And there was a fear
of spread of coronavirus. We had to stay in quarantine
for almost a month. And then every two days or
three days, the doctors would come behind the
door and do the swab. You know, I hate that swab
thing. And for all the children, once the U .S.
consulate was inside the humanitarian city, the
Afghan embassy, all these 10, 12 NGOs were there
to interview the people to find out who is who.
uh who is here who who has been evacuated there
is there were no clear instructions there were
no uh specific procedures and you know they would
send these buses behind one building and call
like for example 10 20 rooms All the people would
storm and push themselves to get in the bus,
quickly go to the U .S. consulate and get processed
and come to the United States. The people did
not have patience and they did the same actions
like they did in the Kabul airport. So what happened
was I noticed this and I took it as a serious
problem. And I had to come outside using my American
network and connections to tell the Arab CIDs
to unlock me from the building. I had to walk
building by building, floor by floor, knock on
the doors. Like in one building, there were 60
rooms. In each room, there was like four or five.
knock in there and bring all the people in the
walkway and talk to them and tell them, hey,
guys, we are in the safety. We need to understand.
We need to cooperate. We should not push each
other. It's shame. It's bad. We need to let the
guys at the U .S. embassy to do their job, the
guys at the NGOs, the Afghan embassy. Most of
these people, they did not have documents like
marriage certificate, like passports, like Afghan
ID cards. So, first of all, I set like a communication
channel within all the buildings. Like, for example,
I told them that in each floor, you guys need
to come up with a leader. It's very difficult
to communicate. You need to come up with a leader.
Everyone will be processed. No one will be left
behind. But all we need to do is cooperate with
each other. So the floor leaders are assigned.
And every day. I had to talk to more than 120
people, 20 leaders. Every one of them sending
me messages. Hey, there is a newly baby born
over here. We need a doctor. Hey, we need, you
know, this guy is sick. Or, you know, many different
scenarios and difficulties. I almost had a stroke,
like a heart attack. My left side was all paralyzed.
One morning I could not wake up from the bed
because of the pressure of the work. The whole
these thousands of people were, you know, talking
to their leaders and the leaders were talking
to me. And finally, after creating communication
channels, we ended up assigning building leaders
to make the communication channel smaller. So
the floor leaders report to the block leaders,
then the block leaders report to the cluster
leaders, like six blocks were in one cluster.
and then the cluster leader directly report to
me then i had to report it like for example to
the ministry of health or the u .s embassy the
afghan embassy and we were finally able to create
documents through the afghan embassy for these
people like marriage certificate which was a
very need for these people to process them like
for example if one interpreter wanted to come
to United States through this humanitarian power,
they needed, the USCIS needed some documents
to prove their, you know, complete the formal
process, like, you know, for the wife. He could
not bring the wife unless she had a marriage
certificate. But then the Afghan embassy was
able to create the embassy because all these
soldiers, most of them were soldiers that, you
know, ran away from their battalions or companies
and they left all your documents they couldn't
bring it with them because of the fear of the
taliban that they will be captured on the road
to the airport and they will kill them in the
first category like we processed all those people
who had american passports we processed those
and finished them send them because that was
easy and then on the second all the green card
holders then after that all those people that
had families and relatives in the united states
and then after that the people who worked for
the army or government or different projects
they needed to contact their supervisors and
the supervisors needed to get in contact with
the u .s uh consulate over there to vouch for
them that i know this guy this is my recommendation
later hr later kind of to understand that you
know who is who and then process them and bring
them In the middle of the night, like the doctors
would call me, hey, Aziz, we are here with many
different vaccines for these people, like coronavirus
vaccines, like the Marcellino vaccine, chickenpox
vaccine. There were 10 or 9 vaccines that needed
to be done on each man and woman before they
are even transferred to the United States because
that was a requirement by the USCIS. And, you
know, again, I had to manage and use these leaders
with the help of these building floor leaders.
We were able to manage everything and process
everyone. And finally, we are here. I spent almost
like nine months over there and almost like three
or four protests happened at me because when
you are working for public, it's not easy. You
know, I did not have a salary. I was helping
these people voluntarily. I was using my daughter
and my son, like most of these people that work
for the CIA. They were illiterate people. They
had HR letters, recommendation letters from the
CIA, but they were not able to file an application
with the USCIS. So I asked Chad and Daniel Stinson
and these guys from the NGOs, the Americans,
that we needed laptops and printers. to bring
them in so that we need to start filing these
cases for these guys. Otherwise, it was not possible
for them to process it. But most of them, you
know, the cases were processed over there at
the humanitarian city, and now they are here
in many different states of the United States.
Well, it's amazing. And you've given such a different
perspective than, you know, most people would
hear, even the people that have been on here
so far. And I'm so glad that we got to talk longer.
A couple of questions. Firstly, you spend your
whole life, well, I rephrase that, you spend
most of your life in Afghanistan, you spend some
of your time in Dubai, and now you find yourself
in the United States, this country where so many
of these men and women that you serve alongside
were from. Talk to me about that journey for
you and your family from Afghanistan to Texas.
Well, it's actually a very good journey. Even
in Afghanistan, we spend a very good time, although
there were hardships, difficulties, and many
different economical challenges in our life.
But there were some restrictions in Afghanistan,
like my sons could go to the gymnastics club,
but for my daughters... There were no opportunities
over there. There were schools that my daughters
could go to school, but I had bodyguards over
there because of what I was doing. My family
had the security from the Ministry of Interior
Affairs in Afghanistan. And everywhere, my daughters
or my sons, including to school, club, or the
people's wedding or funeral, they go, they were
escorted. For the team that I was working, there
was a fear that the bad guys would probably kidnap
my daughters and then it would be difficult for
me to continue the job. So they had given me
all kinds of protection at that time. And it
was more of a live with fear, with anxiety, frustration
every day. Chances of kidnapping, chances of
being robbed, chances of being shot at because
of being an ally to the United States. There
were all kinds of chances. Our movements were
very limited in Afghanistan. We would not move
very often like we do over here. Only when it
was necessary, we were moving. But the time when
we spent in Dubai, like before the humanitarian
city. We also spent some time over there in Ajman.
But then my wife, she didn't have the patience
of being by herself over there, not knowing the
language. With very little kids, she got bored
and then she had to come back to Afghanistan.
And also when we were going to these people's
wedding or the funeral or these big gatherings,
some people respected us. Some people hated us
because of being an ally to the United States,
which is natural. You know, when you are a famous
man, you have some enemies. You have always there
are some bad guys that hate you. And overall,
it was a very challenging. process of life in
Afghanistan for me. Every minute, every second,
I was watching over my kids and my family, including
doing all these different jobs that I was traveling
into different risky and dangerous areas, but
still I would control and check on my children.
But once we came over here into the United States,
I have a peace of mind. By the grace of God,
I'm very, you know, my mind is really peaceful
because now I'm not worried about to call the
bodyguards to take my children to school. The
school bus comes in the neighborhood. My kids
go and walk in the bus freely, independently.
They go to their school. And when there is a
need or something, their counselors call me and
they tell me. that these are the things that
needs to be taken care of for the child, for
the betterment and the improvement on their education.
Everything is so responsibly done here in the
United States, in contrast to Afghanistan, because
in Afghanistan everything was so anagram. You
could not, you know, plan anything over here.
Over here everything is very well managed. um
you know the kids uh have all kinds of uh opportunities
like my daughters they are nowadays they are
going to the martial arts including going to
school they have joined that taekwondo martial
arts um and right across the 1488 they go over
there every evening they spend a couple of hours
they have made some friends And I'm so happy
for them, and I'm very grateful, and I'm thanking
the Lord for giving me this opportunity that
I was hoping for, for the whole country and Afghanistan,
but at least I received it for my own children
here. Beautiful. Well, one more area before we
wrap up. You are now working with the Mighty
Oaks Foundation. That was a nonprofit that Chad
founded. When we do a part two with him, we'll
probably explore a lot more about his mental
health journey. But I know it's a very powerful
one. And ultimately, his faith is one of the
big elements that allowed him to kind of, you
know, heal and now create this incredible foundation.
There's very little discussion on mental health
when it comes to maybe some of the other cultures
in the Middle East. It's a very Western problem,
I think, at the moment. But obviously, it's a
universal problem. It's a global problem. With
you having the trauma that you had, you know,
as you said, even as a young kid watching your
classmates get blown up by, you know, abandoned
Russian, you know, explosives, etc. And then
you have all these conflicts and then you fled
your country and then you go back to your country
and then you're watching the impact on your own
children. What has been your mental health journey?
You know, what were your lows and what were some
of the things that allowed you to process your
own trauma? Well, to be honest with you, I arrived
after in 2016 when that project that I worked
for was terminated. And, you know, up to that
minute, I was busy. I had a purpose. I was working
really hard. And, you know, once the project
was terminated by the United States government,
I lost my job and I became to sit in the house.
And I had my own company. A private company that
I did the export of the Afghan fruits to India
through the air corridor. At that time, they
made an air corridor because we could not send
them by the ground. By the ground, every time
we send something through Pakistan to India,
it was being blocked by the Pakistani government
because there are always a big obstacle to the
Afghan merchandise. So using the air courier,
I was doing my export business. My mental health
was very well, but between 2017 to 2019, there
were some ups and downs, because most of the
time I was staying in the house, and I was not
going out like I used to do when I used to work
for the military. And, you know, just sitting
in the house, I kind of... face to alcohol and
drinking lots of alcohol and this alcohol and
being free and sitting in the house and you know
not being a man who was once before this kind
of you know remembering my past and all those
ups and downs and difficulties and actually I
got PTSD I did not even know the name of PTSD
over there it's the same thing every culture
every A geographical place that you go, it's
the same thing. But because there were not enough
doctors, not experts, no research centers to
find out what's happening, you know, I was, you
know, remembering and there was a gap, a spiritual
gap. I was not really a man of God. And, you
know, I thought that we grow just like. the trees
and then we die and then there is no accountability,
there is no life hereafter. I didn't believe
in all that. All that led me to, you know, kind
of get really nervous and frustration and my
hands start shaking. And one, you know, every
day I was talking to my wife and, you know, she
was she's like, you know, why don't you go outside
and do something? And you're sitting in the house
and, you know, I became a burden, burden to her.
And I almost shot myself one day. I went to downstairs.
And I got my Glock and I said, OK, this is it.
This is the end of it because I do not have a
purpose because now I see I'm losing the respect
even in the family. And, you know, because of
while drinking this alcohol, all these evil things
circling in my mind, I'm like, let's finish it.
I cannot tolerate this. I closed the door like
on the first floor of that house. It was my office.
I closed the door and I start drinking this bottle
of Russian vodka. and I loaded the gun, I put
it right here to shoot myself, that my two little
ones, the eight -year -old is a girl, and the
seven -year -old is a boy, at that time they
were even younger, one year or a couple years,
they knocked behind this door, and with this
very beautiful childish voice, they called me
daddy, daddy, and they started crying. That actually...
Hearing that prevented me from doing a suicide.
And I got mad and I started shooting the gun
on the ceiling, on the floor. I hit my TV, my
computer, my carpet and everything. I emptied
the whole magazine over there to release everything
from there. And then my wife came and the neighbors
got scared. And, you know, I experienced it.
I experienced PTSD in my life, not even know
the name of it or the process of it. But then
when I sat down with myself after that night,
I thought with myself that I need to become a
man of God. I need to study the gospel of God
and I need to, you know, start praying and I
need to find some activities. I found me a couple
of retired colonels from the Afghan army in the
neighborhood. And we started walking like for
three hours in the day, walking in the mountains.
I, you know, kept myself busy and also my sons.
were walking with me. And, you know, that really
helped me to overcome the PTSD. Otherwise, it
was getting me. It got me. It was almost like
75, 80 percent. It was going to be 100 percent
at me. But because of the blessing of God and
referring to him and crying to him in the middle
of the night and praying and studying the gospel
of God led. me to walk away from it and you know
overcome finally well firstly it's fascinating
because you use the word burden and that is one
of the things that i don't think people really
understand when it comes to suicide a lot of
people will call suicide very selfish oh how
could they do that you know why would they do
that to their family and when you listen to people
like yourself that have been right there It's
a selfless act in their broken mind at that point,
you know, through alcohol, through trauma, etc.
And if I remove myself, I'm the problem for my
family. If I remove myself from this world, my
family will be happier. Now, it doesn't make
any sense, but that's what I hear. And it's so
sad because when you look at some of the messaging.
To the people that are in crisis, they were like,
well, think of your family. Well, that's actually
a really bad thing to say to someone who thinks
that they're a burden to their family. So it's
interesting that whether you're American or Afghani
or South African, it's the same message. The
other thing that you said, you talked about visiting
your father in the mosque. So I'm assuming you
grew up in a Muslim family. Did you stay within
Islam or did you actually shift over to Christianity?
To be honest with you, I don't want to reveal
it. Because I still got family in Afghanistan,
but I've been a man of God. Yeah, me too. I mean,
I think ultimately there's common denominators,
no matter what you name your religion. So we'll
leave it at that. Yes, yes, exactly. Because
I still got family in Afghanistan and, you know,
it's risking their life. I don't want to put
that in media, but we can talk to it when I meet
you in person. Living in God and, you know, studying
the gospel of God have really, really enjoyable.
Like at that time, I had money. I had the properties.
I had buildings. I had a farmhouse. I had cars,
bodyguards. Still, I was frustrated. Still, I
was nervous. Still, I couldn't have enough sleep
from the night. But when I totally. Give it all
to God. And I turned to God. I live today in
a rental house. And, you know, I work for the
Mighty Oaks Foundation as a cultural advisor.
And, you know, since I've been a man of God and
I've given everything into the hand of God, the
sole sovereign, and he's been taking care of
everything. And I do not give a damn about nothing
in my life. Because, you know, I have the best
friend ever. Beautiful. Well, the other thing
as well, as you talked about getting out into
nature and with, you know, your sons, your brothers,
etc. So that's another thing that I see is the
reoccurring healing element is the community
is time in nature, daylight and exercise. So
again, a universal truth in mental health. Yes,
yes, of course. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, the
nature and living in God and being a man of God
is all happiness, confidence. And, you know,
you're realizing, I mean, first, we need to study
ourselves, that what we come from, how we come
from. And, you know, what's the status for every
one of us? There is a purpose that God has created
us and he is using us. He is using us for the
many different plan that he had for us. We were
not even created that he had a plan for us in
his mind before we were even created by him,
by the Lord. I'm really happy that I found my
soul and I spent every day some time with him.
And like especially working in Mighty Oaks is
a great opportunity. Every work starts with prayer.
Every work starts by the name of God. Every thing
that we do here, we started, we ended. Even our
food, every food, like breakfast or lunch, if
we eat with the team guys or alone by ourselves,
it's with prayers. It's much blessing and much
blessing. And I really, really appreciate God
giving me this opportunity to serve here and
help the people who are really in need. And sharing
my testimony with them, it gives people. the
opportunity to realize the difficulties and many
different challenges in their life and find their
souls and then become partner with their families
and you know be respectful to their kids and
you know and uh kick away all those burden or
rags hacks or their past that's bothering them
continuously like uh every day i check my facebook
messenger there is a message Somebody sent me
from Texas, somebody sent me from Florida, somebody
sends me from somewhere else. They're like, hey,
thank you Aziz, after hearing your testimony
at Mighty Oaks, or going through the main legacy
program in Mighty Oaks, listening to your testimony,
it was really strong. I was able to find my son
and my daughter, the one that once abandoned
me, And, you know, I have problems with my wife,
but because of listening to your story changed
my life. And I take that as a reward because
of me. If somebody's life has changed, it's another
blessing, another reward from the almighty God
to me. Absolutely. I think that's another healing
element. When you're able to be in a place where
you can start helping others, that also helps
yourself as well. Yeah. Exactly. So for people
listening, Mighty Oaks, where can they find that
online? They can go to our website, www .mightyoaksprograms
.com. They can find it through our programs and
through our website and they can enroll. over
there into one of our programs and they can easily
come and we are here to help them. Brilliant.
And then if they want to reach out to you at
all, are there any places online or social media
that you exist now? Yes, actually they can follow
me on AzizullahWAziz on Instagram and I'm Azizullah.
space aziz on facebook brilliant all right well
aziz i want to be i want to thank you so much
for being so generous with your time today we've
talked for almost two and a half hours i will
definitely get chad back on so we can kind of
expand a little bit more on his story but you've
given us a completely different perspective not
only of the incredible evacuation of your specific
family but the service of you know your family
to this country the environment that you you
know the pros cons and everything else when it
came to you know your upbringing in afghanistan
so i just want to thank you so so much for being
so generous with your time today yes you're welcome
you're welcome my pleasure my pleasure nice meeting
you