WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.780 Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As 00:00:01.780 --> 00:00:03.660 always, my name's James Geering, and this week 00:00:03.660 --> 00:00:05.700 it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show 00:00:05.700 --> 00:00:10.779 actor, former LAFD firefighter, and musician, 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:15.460 Morgan England. Now, in this conversation, we 00:00:15.460 --> 00:00:18.760 discuss a host of topics, from growing up in 00:00:18.760 --> 00:00:22.059 a Hollywood family, his initial rejection of 00:00:22.059 --> 00:00:25.640 the acting world, finding himself in a soap opera, 00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:29.989 seeking purpose in the fire service, how toxic 00:00:29.989 --> 00:00:33.530 environments affected his mental health, refinding 00:00:33.530 --> 00:00:37.509 joy in performance, and so much more. Now, before 00:00:37.509 --> 00:00:39.549 we get to this incredible conversation, as I 00:00:39.549 --> 00:00:42.890 say every week, please just take a moment. Go 00:00:42.890 --> 00:00:45.390 to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe 00:00:45.390 --> 00:00:49.049 to the show, leave feedback, and leave a rating. 00:00:49.810 --> 00:00:53.270 Every single five -star rating truly does elevate 00:00:53.270 --> 00:00:56.009 this podcast, therefore making it easier for 00:00:56.009 --> 00:00:59.390 others to find. And this is a free library of 00:00:59.390 --> 00:01:03.969 over 1 ,200 episodes now. So all I ask in return 00:01:03.969 --> 00:01:07.170 is that you help share these incredible men and 00:01:07.170 --> 00:01:10.469 women's stories so I can get them to every single 00:01:10.469 --> 00:01:13.349 person on planet Earth who needs to hear them. 00:01:14.150 --> 00:01:18.569 So with that being said, I introduce to you Morgan 00:01:18.569 --> 00:01:41.109 England. Enjoy. Well, Morgan, I want to start 00:01:41.109 --> 00:01:43.750 by saying thank you so much for taking the time 00:01:43.750 --> 00:01:46.049 and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today. 00:01:46.510 --> 00:01:48.810 Yeah, I'm really glad to be here. I've been waiting 00:01:48.810 --> 00:01:52.049 for a couple of months since we spoke. Yeah, 00:01:52.090 --> 00:01:54.530 absolutely. It's a good thing. I'm so jammed 00:01:54.530 --> 00:01:57.930 up on interviews at the moment. Long, long time 00:01:57.930 --> 00:01:59.769 ago, someone said to me, aren't you afraid you're 00:01:59.769 --> 00:02:01.650 going to run out of people to interview? And 00:02:01.650 --> 00:02:03.170 I said, it's the opposite. There aren't enough 00:02:03.170 --> 00:02:05.329 days in the week to get all these people on the 00:02:05.329 --> 00:02:08.250 show. So I appreciate your patience. So very 00:02:08.250 --> 00:02:10.229 first question, where on planet Earth are we 00:02:10.229 --> 00:02:13.849 finding you this morning? I am outside of Los 00:02:13.849 --> 00:02:16.889 Angeles, just north in Thousand Oaks. It's another 00:02:16.889 --> 00:02:21.219 beautiful day here in Southern California. Beautiful. 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:24.400 I worked for Anaheim Fire for a few years, so 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:25.879 I lived in Huntington Beach and Burbank. And 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:28.180 yeah, I mean, any time it wasn't a beautiful 00:02:28.180 --> 00:02:30.719 day in California was a strange day. Yeah, that's 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:33.000 true. We've had a little rain recently, which 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:35.020 has just been amazing. The hills are green. It's 00:02:35.020 --> 00:02:38.039 just beautiful right now. Flowers are budding, 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:40.979 just starting to bud. Really nice. Good news 00:02:40.979 --> 00:02:44.520 for the fire service. Yeah, for next season, 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:49.409 for sure. Plenty of stuff. And I grew up in the 00:02:49.409 --> 00:02:52.830 Pacific Palisades, and I just drove through there 00:02:52.830 --> 00:02:56.050 for the first time a couple weeks ago. It's amazing 00:02:56.050 --> 00:03:00.729 how the change just... I know when we brought 00:03:00.729 --> 00:03:04.069 up brush and vegetation, that's what I thought 00:03:04.069 --> 00:03:07.330 of. The Palisades fire, all my friends who fought 00:03:07.330 --> 00:03:10.050 it, and all my friends who lost homes, and everything, 00:03:10.229 --> 00:03:14.389 literally everything. Anyway. No, let's talk 00:03:14.389 --> 00:03:16.110 about that. Let's just go immediately down a 00:03:16.110 --> 00:03:19.550 rabbit hole then. So talk to me about the fire, 00:03:19.770 --> 00:03:22.889 the impact of the fire, and then any kind of 00:03:22.889 --> 00:03:27.789 lessons learned or causations that maybe could 00:03:27.789 --> 00:03:30.330 have prevented such a tragedy. I'll just give 00:03:30.330 --> 00:03:38.349 you the microphone for that. Well, I had a Christmas 00:03:38.349 --> 00:03:41.719 party. all my friends at this place called the 00:03:41.719 --> 00:03:43.340 Pearl Dragon, which is right in the center of 00:03:43.340 --> 00:03:46.199 the Palisades, about a week before Christmas. 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:52.300 And within two or three weeks, more than half 00:03:52.300 --> 00:03:54.099 the people there had lost not just their homes, 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:58.919 but everything. The wind was, it's not something 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:03.180 you can really fight, you know. I think, from 00:04:03.180 --> 00:04:08.240 what I understand, there was a small burn and... 00:04:08.939 --> 00:04:11.780 they were actually told to leave and not continue 00:04:11.780 --> 00:04:14.860 finish putting it out and that reignited and 00:04:14.860 --> 00:04:18.759 that's what caused the uh flame so causation 00:04:18.759 --> 00:04:23.139 i mean put the damn thing out you know don't 00:04:23.139 --> 00:04:25.279 leave before you have i mean that's just down 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:30.899 to mineral earth you don't do that so um whoever 00:04:30.899 --> 00:04:33.680 told them to stop you know i mean it's pretty 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:37.300 cut and dried seems like leave a fire burning 00:04:37.300 --> 00:04:41.629 and you got 80 mile an hour winds bad things 00:04:41.629 --> 00:04:45.649 are going to happen absolutely well everyone 00:04:45.649 --> 00:04:47.790 that lost their home like what are what are the 00:04:47.790 --> 00:04:50.370 things that are in place to try and rebuild their 00:04:50.370 --> 00:04:55.629 lives again you know i don't i don't really know 00:04:55.629 --> 00:05:00.550 i know that some of my friends are um they're 00:05:00.550 --> 00:05:04.509 they've found a place to stay they're it's everyone's 00:05:04.509 --> 00:05:07.029 on hold really because they're still not able 00:05:07.029 --> 00:05:10.579 to build or They really don't know, from what 00:05:10.579 --> 00:05:14.639 I understand, what to do next. I think a lot 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:18.800 of people don't want to sell their property to 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:21.220 a developer and everything, but as time goes 00:05:21.220 --> 00:05:23.360 by, their options are probably getting really 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:26.720 limited. I'm trying to stay away from any blame 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:29.500 or anything, but each question you're asking, 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:32.819 it all comes back to the state and politics. 00:05:35.540 --> 00:05:43.009 It's so sickening. That, yeah, I just try to 00:05:43.009 --> 00:05:49.589 help people where I can. And I just kind of put 00:05:49.589 --> 00:05:52.329 it out of my mind because nothing I can really 00:05:52.329 --> 00:05:56.310 do. So be there, you know, help a few people 00:05:56.310 --> 00:06:00.329 during the day. But other than that, I don't 00:06:00.329 --> 00:06:04.439 know what they're doing. Surviving. Well, it's 00:06:04.439 --> 00:06:06.220 interesting. I've spoken to so many people, and 00:06:06.220 --> 00:06:07.579 when I worked at Anaheim, it was probably the 00:06:07.579 --> 00:06:09.800 most wildland training I had, but I was in a 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:12.040 truck company, so we would normally stay in the 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:14.439 city, and the guys that were ex -CDF were usually 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:15.939 the ones that wanted to be on the strike teams. 00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:20.040 So not super well -versed when it comes to that 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:22.839 part of the fire service, but listening to so 00:06:22.839 --> 00:06:26.819 many people, smokejumpers and hotshots and all 00:06:26.819 --> 00:06:28.620 these people that are leaders in their field, 00:06:28.699 --> 00:06:31.980 and you hear the same kind of thing. It's not... 00:06:32.139 --> 00:06:34.540 you know just keep dropping firefighters in in 00:06:34.540 --> 00:06:37.100 the middle of a fire and try and put it out when 00:06:37.100 --> 00:06:39.899 it started it's the prescribed burns it's you 00:06:39.899 --> 00:06:42.920 know the goats that can knock down the um you 00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:46.180 know the fuel there's the um you know checkering 00:06:46.180 --> 00:06:48.259 is one of my friends said well you don't even 00:06:48.259 --> 00:06:50.660 have to you know get rid of the whole thing but 00:06:50.660 --> 00:06:53.240 you just create those fire breaks prematurely 00:06:53.240 --> 00:06:58.220 um you know aggressive um uh laws when it comes 00:06:58.220 --> 00:06:59.779 to if you are going to build in that kind of 00:06:59.779 --> 00:07:01.720 area you know making sure that you've pushed 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:04.000 the brush way back from your home and again that 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:06.680 you have places to shelter in place and you know 00:07:06.680 --> 00:07:09.420 the the reliance on shelters themselves you know 00:07:09.420 --> 00:07:11.759 the emergency shelters being kind of junk science 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:14.699 really so you know these are all the gurus in 00:07:14.699 --> 00:07:16.579 their space and then also listening to the fact 00:07:16.579 --> 00:07:19.139 that yes the global warming thing appears to 00:07:19.139 --> 00:07:22.100 be real if you ask any wildland firefighter um 00:07:22.540 --> 00:07:26.019 None of these things are really run with. And 00:07:26.019 --> 00:07:27.680 then the prescribed burns, you have the people 00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:29.899 in the local towns that oppose it, and they don't 00:07:29.899 --> 00:07:32.540 want them to, and then the town burns down. So 00:07:32.540 --> 00:07:35.399 coming from a complete white belt when it comes 00:07:35.399 --> 00:07:38.819 to the wildland fire service, it doesn't seem 00:07:38.819 --> 00:07:40.379 like they're listening to the men and women who 00:07:40.379 --> 00:07:42.000 are actually on the ground risking their lives. 00:07:45.779 --> 00:07:49.639 The more that I hear, and the more just from 00:07:49.639 --> 00:07:52.720 my own experience, it's really... you're a warm 00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:55.800 body to fill a seat. And at the end of the day, 00:07:55.860 --> 00:07:59.680 that's how you're seen from the department's 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:05.379 perspective and as you go up the chain. So, no, 00:08:05.540 --> 00:08:08.120 none of this stuff is getting dealt with. There's 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:12.860 no common sense. And I think now, today, it's 00:08:12.860 --> 00:08:16.439 just everything is so political that really nothing's 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:19.240 going to get done. And there are people actively... 00:08:20.939 --> 00:08:23.939 against making the changes that need to be made. 00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:26.120 And California is a perfect, perfect example, 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:29.980 like the, between the vegetation and the wind 00:08:29.980 --> 00:08:32.840 and not putting out the fire and having empty 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:35.759 reservoirs, you know, there, it was just the 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:40.779 perfect storm. Um, so, but, and I too was, I 00:08:40.779 --> 00:08:42.620 was always on the truck company, very rarely 00:08:42.620 --> 00:08:46.980 on the engine. So, you know, I'd be in town when 00:08:46.980 --> 00:08:48.399 I was a rookie and stuff, we were fighting a 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:52.090 lot of, we were going out, but, Most of my career 00:08:52.090 --> 00:08:54.950 was on the truck tillering because that was where 00:08:54.950 --> 00:08:58.129 the paramedic, it's only a spot for the paramedic. 00:08:58.129 --> 00:09:03.610 So, and I love that job, that position. But, 00:09:03.730 --> 00:09:08.669 you know, wildland's great. It's fun. We're specialized 00:09:08.669 --> 00:09:13.429 on structure fires and medical trauma rescue 00:09:13.429 --> 00:09:17.029 and stuff like that. So, you know, we don't know 00:09:17.029 --> 00:09:22.269 what the hell we're doing. i mean you know the 00:09:22.269 --> 00:09:24.529 people that like county la county and stuff they 00:09:24.529 --> 00:09:26.830 they're in there all the time doing wildland 00:09:26.830 --> 00:09:28.809 stuff so and there's a there's a lot of guys 00:09:28.809 --> 00:09:30.710 that have the experience from that but that's 00:09:30.710 --> 00:09:34.350 our specialty at la city was structure fire so 00:09:34.350 --> 00:09:37.409 yeah that's how i felt like you know one day 00:09:37.409 --> 00:09:39.970 a progressive hose load hose training and you 00:09:39.970 --> 00:09:42.190 know cut in line for an hour i didn't feel like 00:09:42.190 --> 00:09:44.509 i was quite prepared for you know the real big 00:09:44.509 --> 00:09:48.080 boys and girls of that area yeah let's start 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:49.580 at the very beginning of your timeline and then 00:09:49.580 --> 00:09:52.480 we'll get to the fire service um tell me where 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:54.340 you were born and tell me a little bit about 00:09:54.340 --> 00:09:56.860 your family dynamic what your parents did how 00:09:56.860 --> 00:10:04.059 many siblings oh man um okay that's funny i don't 00:10:04.059 --> 00:10:09.159 ever usually talk about this but um i my mother 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:14.139 and father had three boys um and then there was 00:10:14.139 --> 00:10:16.759 a six -year gap and each boy was two years apart 00:10:16.759 --> 00:10:21.299 and then me and then my younger sister my mother 00:10:21.299 --> 00:10:26.820 was an actress my father was his mother was his 00:10:26.820 --> 00:10:30.220 mother was mabel albertson and she played darren's 00:10:30.220 --> 00:10:32.600 mother on this bewitched she had a long career 00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:35.659 in acting and then her brother was jack albertson 00:10:35.659 --> 00:10:40.720 so my great uncle was um grandpa joe in charlie 00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:44.230 and the chocolate factory and incredible career 00:10:44.230 --> 00:10:47.370 that he had, Charlie and the, not Charlie, Chico 00:10:47.370 --> 00:10:51.950 and the Man. But my father, I know he did some 00:10:51.950 --> 00:10:55.070 directing and he produced and he wrote, but I 00:10:55.070 --> 00:10:58.289 don't know really what he ever did. I could never 00:10:58.289 --> 00:11:05.110 pin that down. When I turned about seven, 1970, 00:11:05.110 --> 00:11:09.610 my mom got her first Mary Tyler Moore show. Then 00:11:09.610 --> 00:11:13.240 she got uh the last picture show she won an oscar 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:20.639 for that and then young frankenstein um so this 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:22.419 is really interesting because i'm just diving 00:11:22.419 --> 00:11:25.000 into this i'm starting to write a book and this 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:27.120 whole family dynamic and it's so weird because 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:29.059 there are huge chunks that are missing like from 00:11:29.059 --> 00:11:33.820 four to six it's just a blackout and what i realized 00:11:33.820 --> 00:11:36.679 was when i turned four i'll never forget this 00:11:37.500 --> 00:11:39.840 My mom was driving me to preschool or something 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:41.639 and she turned to me and she said, you know, 00:11:41.659 --> 00:11:44.639 I'm leaving and I'm taking your younger sister 00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:48.820 with me. And I remember screaming and crying 00:11:48.820 --> 00:11:52.379 and she dropped me off at preschool. And I don't 00:11:52.379 --> 00:11:54.519 know where she went, but I think she was gone 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:59.179 most of that summer. And that's when her career 00:11:59.179 --> 00:12:02.840 started to take off. Also, my mother and father 00:12:02.840 --> 00:12:05.240 were. I don't ever remember them really being 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:08.279 together. He would come in, and he scared the 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:11.600 crap out of me. This guy was so articulate, so 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:19.700 charming, incredibly well -read. And he could 00:12:19.700 --> 00:12:24.620 just, two words, and he could just cut you right 00:12:24.620 --> 00:12:26.919 to the core and just drop you to your knees. 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:31.620 And the older boys were getting in trouble, and 00:12:31.620 --> 00:12:33.809 he had this whistle. I heard that whistle, and 00:12:33.809 --> 00:12:39.629 it just chilled me to the bone. But I think when 00:12:39.629 --> 00:12:43.429 my mom left and her career started rolling, she 00:12:43.429 --> 00:12:46.629 was, I think, running to save her own life and 00:12:46.629 --> 00:12:54.710 sanity. And she had to make a choice. But I really 00:12:54.710 --> 00:13:00.990 grew up pretty quick in terms of being able to 00:13:00.990 --> 00:13:05.750 take care of myself. This gave me the tools for 00:13:05.750 --> 00:13:15.190 future life. When I was 10, I started hitchhiking 00:13:15.190 --> 00:13:18.850 everywhere with a skateboard and my thumb. And 00:13:18.850 --> 00:13:21.889 I got all over Los Angeles. I got to school and 00:13:21.889 --> 00:13:28.649 all that stuff. So, yeah, it was a very weird... 00:13:28.649 --> 00:13:31.029 I found out later that this was not a normal 00:13:31.029 --> 00:13:34.330 life. style and family and all that kind of stuff. 00:13:34.370 --> 00:13:36.750 So there's a lot of drama. My, the middle brother 00:13:36.750 --> 00:13:41.669 got into drugs at 12. He got over the counter 00:13:41.669 --> 00:13:44.809 sleeping pills in Italy and not sent him on a 00:13:44.809 --> 00:13:51.289 thing. And he ended up overdosing at 29. And 00:13:51.289 --> 00:13:53.710 yeah, I mean, you can, we can get a little more 00:13:53.710 --> 00:13:56.090 specific, but it was, it was a pretty chaotic 00:13:56.090 --> 00:14:04.379 childhood, but at the same time, I'm, You know, 00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:08.100 I really I would never put things in these terms, 00:14:08.179 --> 00:14:11.279 but it really was abandoned. I mean, my mom just 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:13.940 left and she just left me there. And this is 00:14:13.940 --> 00:14:17.399 in the 60s and 70s where you didn't really raise 00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:19.279 kids. You just sort of had them and see what 00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:27.779 happens. But at the end of her life, she I think 00:14:27.779 --> 00:14:31.799 that decision that she made to to take my sister. 00:14:32.330 --> 00:14:36.490 and to leave me i think that she she made that 00:14:36.490 --> 00:14:40.529 decision so many more times in my life and um 00:14:40.529 --> 00:14:46.789 in terms of like personal betrayal was just unbelievable 00:14:46.789 --> 00:14:51.590 and i found out what she had given to the other 00:14:51.590 --> 00:14:55.370 kids throughout their lives and stuff and um 00:14:55.370 --> 00:15:00.629 i i was stunned um at the amount of money that 00:15:00.629 --> 00:15:03.970 she had that they had taken and that she'd put 00:15:03.970 --> 00:15:07.610 in or however, what I'm not judging, but, um, 00:15:07.809 --> 00:15:11.769 I never, I was never part of any of that. So 00:15:11.769 --> 00:15:16.889 the end of her life, I was sitting there. Um, 00:15:16.950 --> 00:15:21.169 they had moved my sister. She was took, took 00:15:21.169 --> 00:15:24.269 my mom. And, um, anyway, they moved to San Diego 00:15:24.269 --> 00:15:26.610 and I realized that my sister was completely 00:15:26.610 --> 00:15:29.490 overwhelmed and my mom was on end stage. She 00:15:29.490 --> 00:15:32.950 had a few months probably. And I was coming down 00:15:32.950 --> 00:15:35.490 every chance I could. And I was sitting there 00:15:35.490 --> 00:15:37.889 just smoothing her forehead. She was in bed and 00:15:37.889 --> 00:15:41.350 she's looking at me really intensely. And she 00:15:41.350 --> 00:15:46.490 goes, why are you here? And I knew what she meant. 00:15:46.809 --> 00:15:49.809 She's like, out of all my kids and all the shit 00:15:49.809 --> 00:15:52.750 to put you through, how is it that you're the 00:15:52.750 --> 00:15:55.490 one sitting here with me right now and caring 00:15:55.490 --> 00:16:01.470 for me? And I was able to say how. That I feel 00:16:01.470 --> 00:16:04.049 very lucky that I'm not anyone else in our family 00:16:04.049 --> 00:16:06.929 and everything that I went through made me who 00:16:06.929 --> 00:16:10.230 I am today. And the career that she had, which 00:16:10.230 --> 00:16:14.629 was unbelievable. I told her there's no way that 00:16:14.629 --> 00:16:16.929 you could have done that and been at home raising 00:16:16.929 --> 00:16:21.389 kids and was able to really just tell her I love 00:16:21.389 --> 00:16:26.009 her to go in peace. And like, she's got nothing 00:16:26.009 --> 00:16:28.649 to worry about my side. And so it was really 00:16:28.649 --> 00:16:36.080 nice. kind of ending with her. There's obviously 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:39.080 a lot more, but I'm going to just pause for you. 00:16:39.779 --> 00:16:42.240 Yeah, no, no. I mean, this, this is what's so 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:44.200 interesting and we're going to get to, you know, 00:16:44.220 --> 00:16:46.039 your mental health journey in the fire service. 00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:50.019 But again, as we sit here, I've done over 1200 00:16:50.019 --> 00:16:53.399 interviews now and which does not make me an 00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:55.000 expert in any way, shape or form, but I've heard 00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:56.320 a lot of stories, you know, and then heard a 00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:57.879 lot of science and that kind of thing from the 00:16:57.879 --> 00:17:03.669 SMEs as well. But it was made aware of me by 00:17:03.669 --> 00:17:05.289 Jake Clark. I always give him credit for that 00:17:05.289 --> 00:17:10.970 from Save a Warrior. But the ACES, the Adverse 00:17:10.970 --> 00:17:13.069 Childhood Experience score that they have in 00:17:13.069 --> 00:17:16.329 psychology, on average, first responders and 00:17:16.329 --> 00:17:19.150 military members are six out of 10. And then 00:17:19.150 --> 00:17:21.309 incarcerated people are usually about six out 00:17:21.309 --> 00:17:24.519 of 10 as well. And it makes perfect sense that 00:17:24.519 --> 00:17:27.339 a lot of us want to feel validated. We want to 00:17:27.339 --> 00:17:29.940 feel enough. We want to protect people from maybe 00:17:29.940 --> 00:17:32.279 the hurt that we've had. We want to have a purpose. 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:35.920 We want to have an identity. But the other thing 00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:38.000 that's become more prevalent, and I wrote about 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:41.099 this in my most recent book, was the impact of 00:17:41.099 --> 00:17:44.500 generational trauma. And it sounds like possibly, 00:17:45.099 --> 00:17:47.420 I'm just not trying to psychoanalyze your family, 00:17:47.539 --> 00:17:50.140 but that maybe your mom was always chasing something 00:17:50.140 --> 00:17:52.670 that would make her. feel enough you know through 00:17:52.670 --> 00:17:56.849 through the uh performance side when actually 00:17:56.849 --> 00:17:59.009 what was most important was was right in front 00:17:59.009 --> 00:18:02.509 of her the whole time so with your parents i 00:18:02.509 --> 00:18:04.910 mean did you spend time with grandparents did 00:18:04.910 --> 00:18:08.369 you see any of the the kind of generational dominoes 00:18:08.369 --> 00:18:13.650 as far as their upbringing no no um i would say 00:18:13.650 --> 00:18:19.210 no but a really interesting thing my mother would 00:18:19.210 --> 00:18:22.109 always say she played piano and she'd tell me 00:18:22.109 --> 00:18:25.809 how she'd always try to her father was very distant 00:18:25.809 --> 00:18:28.670 with her so getting approval for him was everything 00:18:28.670 --> 00:18:30.849 to her and after he was dead i mean that was 00:18:30.849 --> 00:18:38.150 just her whole thing and uh my sister sent me 00:18:38.150 --> 00:18:42.069 this dna testing thing and so we did our dna 00:18:42.069 --> 00:18:45.920 testing did all that and then a few weeks later 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:49.660 this woman contacts me she's like hey um she's 00:18:49.660 --> 00:18:52.480 very mysterious and she's like you know is it 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:55.140 okay if i i'm like yeah man i have nothing to 00:18:55.140 --> 00:18:57.259 hide i don't care what happened in the past it's 00:18:57.259 --> 00:18:59.920 she's like okay so very slowly she gives me this 00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:03.559 information bottom line is that my mother's father 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:07.259 was not her father it was some other dude that 00:19:07.259 --> 00:19:11.390 lived in the same town And apparently my grandmother 00:19:11.390 --> 00:19:14.690 was three months pregnant with my mother when 00:19:14.690 --> 00:19:20.269 she married the guy that my mother always thought 00:19:20.269 --> 00:19:23.390 was her father. So it's hard to believe, but 00:19:23.390 --> 00:19:28.630 if that's the case, that family, well, I saw 00:19:28.630 --> 00:19:31.970 who would be my great aunt and she would just 00:19:31.970 --> 00:19:34.849 doppelganger for my mother. I thought it was 00:19:34.849 --> 00:19:38.019 my mother. Whoa. Um, but apparently there was 00:19:38.019 --> 00:19:41.039 heavy alcoholism early, a lot of early death 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:45.559 from alcoholism. Um, I don't know much more than 00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:48.920 that, but, uh, but it makes sense. You know, 00:19:48.940 --> 00:19:52.660 it's, she's had that drive to, to get recognition 00:19:52.660 --> 00:19:56.079 from her father and turns out now it's kind of 00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:00.380 understandable why, um, she was never able to 00:20:00.380 --> 00:20:03.660 get it. So I don't know the exact circumstances, 00:20:03.700 --> 00:20:07.440 but probably finding out that he's just married 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:10.839 somebody with somebody else's kid. Um, probably 00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:13.519 somebody he knew they probably were in the same 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:17.740 circles. So just weird, but it is, it's crazy. 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:20.460 The generational stuff that goes back. We, we, 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:23.740 they're just like us, man. You know, they were 00:20:23.740 --> 00:20:26.119 doing all this and it goes back and back and 00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:31.140 back and thousands of years. Uh, it was mind 00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:35.380 blowing. Well, I think this is what, excites 00:20:35.380 --> 00:20:40.440 me about our generation generation x is one of 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:43.299 our feet was still in that blind rub some dirt 00:20:43.299 --> 00:20:46.440 in it you know suck it up buttercup you know 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:49.180 that old mentality the victorian mentality that 00:20:49.180 --> 00:20:51.539 arguably is what put a lot of people in the grave 00:20:51.539 --> 00:20:53.680 you know by their own hand by alcohol whatever 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.500 the thing was and then the other side is obviously 00:20:56.500 --> 00:20:58.420 we're seeing these young generations now that 00:20:59.019 --> 00:21:01.000 And because of this genesis of conversation, 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:03.720 that's all they know is talking about mental 00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:05.400 health and, you know, and the things that are 00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:06.779 good for them and things that are bad for them, 00:21:06.819 --> 00:21:10.099 which is an incredible thing. But we kind of 00:21:10.099 --> 00:21:12.619 get to be the gatekeepers. You know, we get to 00:21:12.619 --> 00:21:15.380 be the ones that see the dominoes that fell on 00:21:15.380 --> 00:21:17.920 us. Maybe, you know, as depending on how old 00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:20.220 our children are, maybe the domino fell on them 00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:23.019 for a while. But then we get to kind of heal 00:21:23.019 --> 00:21:26.420 what we experience as kids, but then try and 00:21:26.420 --> 00:21:29.000 also then heal our children with what we've learned 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:32.559 and forgiveness and understanding. So I think 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:36.339 it's an exciting time, depending on how you look 00:21:36.339 --> 00:21:40.160 at it, because we really are, in a way, the most 00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:42.599 important storytellers, our generation, because 00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:45.980 we grew up in that generation that was still 00:21:45.980 --> 00:21:49.000 the old style. And yet our children are in the 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:52.420 new generation. But we can't actually make a 00:21:52.420 --> 00:21:55.279 positive impact until we look in the mirror, 00:21:55.380 --> 00:21:57.859 figure out what we're struggling with, have the 00:21:57.859 --> 00:22:00.259 courage to deal with our struggles, forgive the 00:22:00.259 --> 00:22:03.539 people that hurt us, et cetera, et cetera. And 00:22:03.539 --> 00:22:06.039 then, you know, now those dominoes stop falling. 00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:07.680 You know, if not our children, certainly our 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:10.480 grandchildren. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, 00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:12.400 like with anything, I remember when my kids, 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:16.819 my first two were young, they started giving 00:22:16.819 --> 00:22:21.339 out participation trophies. And to me, that was 00:22:21.339 --> 00:22:25.400 the beginning. It went too far the other way, 00:22:25.460 --> 00:22:28.259 you know, so you get a whole generation of kids 00:22:28.259 --> 00:22:29.900 that don't know how to do anything. You know, 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:32.099 they just expect things to happen for them and 00:22:32.099 --> 00:22:36.839 the helicopter parents and all this. So I think 00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:39.240 we've got to take that new and then eventually 00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:41.779 that will blend together because you have to 00:22:41.779 --> 00:22:44.240 have those boundaries, you know. We talked about 00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:47.619 compartmentalization in our industry. And you 00:22:47.619 --> 00:22:49.900 have to have that. That is a tool. That's a skill 00:22:49.900 --> 00:22:53.339 that you have to have. You cannot break down 00:22:53.339 --> 00:22:57.319 in the middle of a call and not cease to function. 00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:02.160 You have to do it. But on the other side, what 00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:04.099 we're finding out now, what we're leaning into 00:23:04.099 --> 00:23:09.140 is letting it flow through you instead of bottling 00:23:09.140 --> 00:23:13.829 up and bottling up and piling up. I think we're 00:23:13.829 --> 00:23:15.930 in a great place. It's an amazing time to be 00:23:15.930 --> 00:23:21.609 alive. And what I see is that we kind of will 00:23:21.609 --> 00:23:24.089 swing all the way this way from where we were 00:23:24.089 --> 00:23:28.029 here. Like we're talking about suck it up buttercup 00:23:28.029 --> 00:23:30.849 to let's feel and talk about our mental health 00:23:30.849 --> 00:23:33.130 feelings and all that stuff. And there's, there's 00:23:33.130 --> 00:23:35.910 a middle ground that especially first responders, 00:23:35.910 --> 00:23:38.710 I think need to, you got to have that compartmentalization 00:23:38.710 --> 00:23:42.720 and that toughness, but you also need to. let 00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:45.880 it go let it um get rid of it it's like taking 00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:49.299 a shit you know it's why don't we have to we 00:23:49.299 --> 00:23:51.940 can't just hold it forever otherwise it just 00:23:51.940 --> 00:23:55.000 becomes disease if not mental disease physical 00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:59.900 disease so pretty it's and the science is all 00:23:59.900 --> 00:24:02.000 there to show us that like what you're talking 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:03.660 about with the sleep deprivation i mean that's 00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:07.700 just one slice of the pie and just by changing 00:24:07.700 --> 00:24:10.339 that you might change the whole industry to where 00:24:10.339 --> 00:24:14.180 and change the statistics that we're seeing of 00:24:14.180 --> 00:24:16.619 the suicides and the mental health and addiction 00:24:16.619 --> 00:24:20.599 and alcoholism and all that stuff. So we're in 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:23.240 a great place. And I think that swing back is 00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:30.299 actually happening faster. Like we're getting 00:24:30.299 --> 00:24:34.079 into the mental health and you see that as a 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:38.680 weakness to talk about that kind of stuff. And 00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:41.140 there's, I don't know, call it danger, but to 00:24:41.140 --> 00:24:45.279 go too far that way. And where ultimately it's 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:47.599 going to be is you got to be tough, but you got 00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:51.640 to have a way to offload the trauma. And the 00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:55.559 other thing, and honestly, for me, I love the 00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:57.579 calls. I mean, yeah, of course, there are calls 00:24:57.579 --> 00:25:03.599 that haunt me that I'll never leave me. It was 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:06.319 what I understand now is called moral injury, 00:25:06.460 --> 00:25:09.319 department betrayal, leadership betrayal. That 00:25:09.319 --> 00:25:14.420 so far outweighs anything I saw. I mean, I loved 00:25:14.420 --> 00:25:16.759 the job. I wanted to do the job. I wanted to 00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:19.500 go on those calls. And it gets gnarlier later 00:25:19.500 --> 00:25:22.440 when you're going on a shooting at first. Yeah, 00:25:22.460 --> 00:25:25.559 I want to go fix the guy with the gunshot wound. 00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:27.660 But after seeing a couple, it's like, this is 00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:31.829 real, man. Somebody just... got shot with a gun 00:25:31.829 --> 00:25:33.789 and they're bleeding and dying and then you see 00:25:33.789 --> 00:25:36.410 their family and the mother comes running in 00:25:36.410 --> 00:25:41.190 and you know that's that's gnarly and you don't 00:25:41.190 --> 00:25:43.950 you start to see the humanity kind of approach 00:25:43.950 --> 00:25:46.289 it at first as a clinical you're doing your job 00:25:46.289 --> 00:25:48.730 all the stuff that you've learned and want to 00:25:48.730 --> 00:25:52.410 be there on the spot but after a while i remember 00:25:52.410 --> 00:25:57.130 i talked to my mom when i was a new paramedic 00:25:57.130 --> 00:26:00.039 and you know tell her about the things maybe 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:02.619 on the way home and stuff. And I remember a couple 00:26:02.619 --> 00:26:04.839 years later, she said, you know, you never talk 00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:06.920 about the stories. You never talk about your 00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:11.140 job anymore. And I realized it was because it 00:26:11.140 --> 00:26:14.059 really became real. Like, it's a human. These 00:26:14.059 --> 00:26:16.940 are people dying. These are people losing limbs 00:26:16.940 --> 00:26:21.720 and having their life changed forever. And, you 00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:27.880 know, that's heavy. But it's tolerable. I mean, 00:26:27.900 --> 00:26:30.640 there's a lot of good to be able to be the person 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.119 there in their hour of need. You know, that's 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:39.539 a huge gift to us to be there, to be able to 00:26:39.539 --> 00:26:44.880 be there. Absolutely. I think going back to what 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:46.339 we were talking about before, as far as, you 00:26:46.339 --> 00:26:47.940 know, the generational thing and, you know, our 00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:51.920 ability to actually force change now. I was telling 00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:55.039 you before we hit record. changed the way i'm 00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:58.579 kind of addressing this whole subject now we 00:26:58.579 --> 00:27:01.460 have talked for example about you know the carcinogens 00:27:01.460 --> 00:27:03.279 in our gear and that's why we're all dying of 00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:05.640 cancer and you know the mental health stuff you 00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:07.319 know it's what we see and that's why we're all 00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:10.599 you know we're all taking our own lives or you 00:27:10.599 --> 00:27:14.180 know becoming alcoholics etc etc and if you look 00:27:14.180 --> 00:27:17.210 at a lot of other professions that hold themselves 00:27:17.210 --> 00:27:19.950 you know to a high level and that hold us to 00:27:19.950 --> 00:27:22.029 that same level and i think the special operations 00:27:22.029 --> 00:27:26.250 community is a good one to to use as that their 00:27:26.250 --> 00:27:28.829 psychologists you know ultimately are trying 00:27:28.829 --> 00:27:30.549 to get them to perform at a high level get them 00:27:30.549 --> 00:27:33.509 in the flow state during a gunfight etc etc their 00:27:33.509 --> 00:27:34.970 strength and conditioning coaches are trying 00:27:34.970 --> 00:27:37.230 to get them to be able to you know rock two miles 00:27:37.230 --> 00:27:39.559 with 100 pounds of gear and then you know, get 00:27:39.559 --> 00:27:41.960 into a gunfight. They're nutritionists trying 00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:43.700 to, you know, keep them hydrated at the highest 00:27:43.700 --> 00:27:46.900 level and, you know, optimize performance. But 00:27:46.900 --> 00:27:48.759 those same professionals in the fire service, 00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:50.279 when they come in, they're like, man, you keep 00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:52.960 dying. So many of you die. Let's try and get 00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:56.200 you to die less. It's such a chasm between that 00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:58.680 conversation and where we need to be. And the 00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:01.720 irony is, if you actually talk about forging 00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:05.380 performance, it pulls you from the darkest of 00:28:05.380 --> 00:28:07.519 places. All right, you know. Morgan, I want you 00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:08.900 to perform at the high level. We're going to 00:28:08.900 --> 00:28:10.720 do some meditation. We're going to do some breath 00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:13.079 work. We're going to do some counseling. We're 00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:14.400 going to try and kind of offload some of your 00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:16.140 trauma when you were younger so that when you 00:28:16.140 --> 00:28:18.900 go and do a primary search in a four bedroom 00:28:18.900 --> 00:28:21.799 home, you're able to paint that picture with 00:28:21.799 --> 00:28:23.660 your mind as you're moving through with your 00:28:23.660 --> 00:28:26.799 hands. And the other person's got the tick. So 00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:28.900 now you go, oh, wow. Yeah, I want to be a better 00:28:28.900 --> 00:28:30.980 firefighter. I want to be able to think clearly 00:28:30.980 --> 00:28:32.720 at three in the morning when I'm doing that PD 00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:36.049 cardiac arrest. And so if you're doing that, 00:28:36.069 --> 00:28:38.589 well, those same tools are helping you process 00:28:38.589 --> 00:28:40.690 all the bad shit. So that's pulling you away 00:28:40.690 --> 00:28:43.009 from the darkness to the same with obesity and 00:28:43.009 --> 00:28:45.869 cancer and strokes. If we have a fitness test 00:28:45.869 --> 00:28:48.049 and we're going to try and get you to the highest 00:28:48.049 --> 00:28:51.049 level where like my last apartment, 100 pounds 00:28:51.049 --> 00:28:53.549 of gear, high rise strip, 30 floors up before 00:28:53.549 --> 00:28:56.269 you get to the fire floor. That's a high level 00:28:56.269 --> 00:28:58.509 of performance. So I need to be held at a high 00:28:58.509 --> 00:29:00.230 standard. I need to train frequently. I need 00:29:00.230 --> 00:29:02.009 to hydrate. I need to eat properly, et cetera, 00:29:02.089 --> 00:29:05.009 et cetera. So again, going back to that exciting 00:29:05.009 --> 00:29:09.430 conversation, if we can shift from the doom and 00:29:09.430 --> 00:29:11.990 gloom that was the mental health conversation 00:29:11.990 --> 00:29:14.990 10 years ago and now talk about performance, 00:29:15.309 --> 00:29:19.089 A, it smashes a lot of the stigma as well. But 00:29:19.089 --> 00:29:22.069 then it gives these guys pride into dealing with 00:29:22.069 --> 00:29:24.990 their shit because now that's going to make you 00:29:24.990 --> 00:29:27.069 a better firefighter, as you mentioned, when 00:29:27.069 --> 00:29:30.089 people are having their worst day. Yeah, absolutely. 00:29:32.910 --> 00:29:35.089 It's really great to just change the lens that 00:29:35.089 --> 00:29:39.349 you're looking through to the doom and gloom 00:29:39.349 --> 00:29:44.650 of mental illness or mental health to resilience 00:29:44.650 --> 00:29:47.769 and being the best you can be. And this just 00:29:47.769 --> 00:29:50.230 being a part of it, which it is. It's like eating, 00:29:50.309 --> 00:29:52.650 breathing. Any other thing that we do for ourselves 00:29:52.650 --> 00:29:58.069 is just cut out. And what I've... It's the way 00:29:58.069 --> 00:30:01.849 I... I don't know. I'm trying to find a way to 00:30:01.849 --> 00:30:04.710 articulate this, but because of the culture, 00:30:04.769 --> 00:30:07.269 because of this sort of code of science, because 00:30:07.269 --> 00:30:10.769 we can't really share or in the environment where 00:30:10.769 --> 00:30:13.150 we can't, if something's hitting us sideways 00:30:13.150 --> 00:30:16.589 or we're just really messed up, we can't look 00:30:16.589 --> 00:30:21.549 weak, right? So we don't say anything. And I 00:30:21.549 --> 00:30:24.289 don't know about your experience, but most of 00:30:24.289 --> 00:30:27.299 the training. that I went through in the first 00:30:27.299 --> 00:30:29.440 responder world, whether it was paramedic, fire, 00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:34.319 whatever, was more like, they're always going 00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:36.440 to point out where you fucked up. You know, they're 00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:39.279 always going to point out the worst thing or 00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:41.240 the things you did. And even if you didn't like, 00:30:41.339 --> 00:30:42.819 oh, I would have done it differently. There's 00:30:42.819 --> 00:30:47.640 never a, it's not like you're a team coming together. 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:51.279 It's like individuals performing individual jobs. 00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:56.460 where everything that we do is team oriented. 00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:00.119 We wash dishes together, we cook together, clean, 00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:04.099 sleep, train, fight fires, go on calls together. 00:31:04.299 --> 00:31:08.480 And yet we're operating as an island because 00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:15.460 we can't really, we have to keep all this contained, 00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:21.289 right? So we're not really, even the training 00:31:21.289 --> 00:31:27.089 itself is not geared towards team dynamics. To 00:31:27.089 --> 00:31:31.329 me, it's more like your enemies, right? Or it 00:31:31.329 --> 00:31:34.069 gets to be where it's not just challenging you 00:31:34.069 --> 00:31:38.430 to do your best. It's almost like it's an unhealthy 00:31:38.430 --> 00:31:41.269 competition. Am I making any sense to you? I 00:31:41.269 --> 00:31:42.430 don't know, maybe you didn't experience this 00:31:42.430 --> 00:31:45.369 at all. Yeah, no, no. I mean, I've been for four 00:31:45.369 --> 00:31:48.420 different departments. some pretty extremes when 00:31:48.420 --> 00:31:49.980 it comes to the right way of doing it and the 00:31:49.980 --> 00:31:52.779 wrong way of doing it. You touched on moral injury. 00:31:53.019 --> 00:31:56.259 I think one of the things I realize on the fire 00:31:56.259 --> 00:31:59.440 side and then certainly on the medic side, we 00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:04.299 also cook in, well, if you do A, B, C, and D, 00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:06.779 then you get the person out of the fire. Or you 00:32:06.779 --> 00:32:09.759 do A, B, C, and D, and now they've gone from 00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:14.519 V -fib down to sinus with a pulse. And what I 00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:16.759 think we need to do, and let's just stay with 00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:20.220 paramedic for a moment, that you and I are working 00:32:20.220 --> 00:32:24.059 a megacode for our final test or checkoff, and 00:32:24.059 --> 00:32:27.079 we do everything right, and the person still 00:32:27.079 --> 00:32:29.579 dies. And they turn to you then and say, that 00:32:29.579 --> 00:32:32.779 was phenomenal. You guys did every single thing. 00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:35.099 You gave the right meds. You shocked at the right 00:32:35.099 --> 00:32:38.680 jewels. You dealt with the different change of 00:32:38.680 --> 00:32:42.029 rhythms. you know, this, this 95 % of them don't 00:32:42.029 --> 00:32:44.349 live. So we're just simulating that. But I want 00:32:44.349 --> 00:32:46.210 you to know that you gave that patient every 00:32:46.210 --> 00:32:48.569 single chance, but we don't do that. You know, 00:32:48.569 --> 00:32:51.130 every single time we do it right in ACLS, you 00:32:51.130 --> 00:32:53.109 get a, you know, a pulse back and then you get 00:32:53.109 --> 00:32:55.950 all these excited, bright eyed ENTs and medics 00:32:55.950 --> 00:32:58.150 and they go in the real world. I had a career 00:32:58.150 --> 00:33:01.269 where I had zero code saves in 14 years. What 00:33:01.269 --> 00:33:03.309 does that do morally? You know, what am I doing 00:33:03.309 --> 00:33:05.450 wrong? I must be, you know, a shitty medic, et 00:33:05.450 --> 00:33:06.769 cetera, et cetera. And I hope that's not the 00:33:06.769 --> 00:33:09.990 case. But sometimes you get the GI bleeds and 00:33:09.990 --> 00:33:12.369 the quadriplegic that hasn't moved for 30 years. 00:33:12.430 --> 00:33:14.630 You can't even compress his chest, you know, 00:33:14.630 --> 00:33:17.150 and the, you know, the, the triple A's and I 00:33:17.150 --> 00:33:19.730 mean all the things. And some of us just, you 00:33:19.730 --> 00:33:21.769 do everything right and they still die. And I 00:33:21.769 --> 00:33:23.890 think whether it's in the fire training, the 00:33:23.890 --> 00:33:27.490 extrication, you know, the, the EMS side, not 00:33:27.490 --> 00:33:30.089 all the time, but sometimes weave that in that, 00:33:30.109 --> 00:33:31.950 you know, there's not that expectation that if 00:33:31.950 --> 00:33:34.680 you do the right skills. the person comes to 00:33:34.680 --> 00:33:36.279 the station the next week with a cake because 00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:38.059 that's not the real world. And you're setting 00:33:38.059 --> 00:33:41.539 us up for like emotional failure by doing that. 00:33:41.660 --> 00:33:46.640 Yeah. You know, there's those ones where you 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:50.500 lose them and it just doesn't, it's just another 00:33:50.500 --> 00:33:53.480 call. You know, you did everything. But then 00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:56.660 there are those where, I don't know why, but 00:33:56.660 --> 00:33:59.859 there are certain ones where you just give everything 00:33:59.859 --> 00:34:03.839 you've got, you know. And you're like, fucking 00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:06.799 live, motherfucker. You're doing everything. 00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:14.199 And for some reason, I think about this lady. 00:34:16.539 --> 00:34:20.179 I was a fairly new paramedic, but a few years 00:34:20.179 --> 00:34:23.280 in, and she'd been shot like four times in the 00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:25.840 abdomen. She's a mother by her ex -boyfriend, 00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:28.679 and she's bleeding out. And I'm alone in the 00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:30.500 back of the rig, and we've got like a 20 -minute 00:34:30.500 --> 00:34:35.000 transport. and she's just fleeting out, man. 00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:39.780 I've got both wide, you know, the big IVs in 00:34:39.780 --> 00:34:43.679 her, 14 in both arms, just pumping nothing. I 00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:45.760 put her in shock position, and I see I'm losing 00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:49.539 her, and I just grab her feet. I slam them up 00:34:49.539 --> 00:34:54.400 into the ceiling of the ambulance, and her face 00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:56.980 starts to pink up, and she comes into color, 00:34:57.079 --> 00:35:00.119 and I was able to talk to her for a sec before 00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:03.949 we got to the hospital. And I just, I don't, 00:35:03.949 --> 00:35:08.610 I 99 % sure she didn't make it, but maybe her 00:35:08.610 --> 00:35:11.369 organs were able to, but man, that was one where 00:35:11.369 --> 00:35:20.050 I just, it was so hard to lose it. Yeah. We had 00:35:20.050 --> 00:35:24.710 a guy in a kennel at a resort. What brought his 00:35:24.710 --> 00:35:27.969 dog in and just basically collapsed young guy, 00:35:28.070 --> 00:35:33.289 like late twenties. And the, the, Code went perfectly. 00:35:33.829 --> 00:35:37.489 Like probably the best code I've ever run in 00:35:37.489 --> 00:35:40.010 the whole time in the fire service. But he had 00:35:40.010 --> 00:35:42.690 a brain bleed. And this is the thing. It was 00:35:42.690 --> 00:35:44.710 so sad. You know, the family were there. It was 00:35:44.710 --> 00:35:47.570 one of those calls where after, you know, we 00:35:47.570 --> 00:35:49.969 dropped, we take them to the ER and we called 00:35:49.969 --> 00:35:52.889 it in the, you know, the trauma room there. And 00:35:52.889 --> 00:35:56.329 I'm in the hallway doing my report. And I happen 00:35:56.329 --> 00:35:58.230 to be sitting. I don't know why the EMS room 00:35:58.230 --> 00:36:01.340 is right next to the grief counseling room. but 00:36:01.340 --> 00:36:04.679 he has just told the family and I'm just hearing 00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:06.760 the screams and, you know, they're coming in 00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:08.659 and out and they were there, you know, watching 00:36:08.659 --> 00:36:11.900 us run the code. And what was disgusting is the 00:36:11.900 --> 00:36:14.940 people, this was at a theme park resort, the 00:36:14.940 --> 00:36:19.159 people working this, you know, kennel area kept 00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:21.019 on checking people in while we're working the 00:36:21.019 --> 00:36:23.139 code in their foyer. So, you know, there's that 00:36:23.139 --> 00:36:26.619 as well. I mean, disgusting, but. But yeah, so 00:36:26.619 --> 00:36:28.519 you're trying to type those reports. But the 00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:31.659 thing is, you did everything right. You gave 00:36:31.659 --> 00:36:34.360 that person every single chance they could. And 00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:37.800 that was their time for whatever reason. I mean, 00:36:37.820 --> 00:36:39.340 especially with the brain bleed, you can't predict 00:36:39.340 --> 00:36:41.579 that. And it's just heartbreaking. But you're 00:36:41.579 --> 00:36:44.500 talking about moral injury, the screams of those 00:36:44.500 --> 00:36:47.980 loved ones where you're seemingly the person 00:36:47.980 --> 00:36:50.559 whose fault it was that didn't save it. save 00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:52.920 them typing the report. I mean, it is. It's a 00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:55.920 lot for people to carry. We're not conditioned 00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:57.940 to be able to do this day in, day out, not to 00:36:57.940 --> 00:37:00.800 mention sleep -deprived and overworked. Yeah, 00:37:00.820 --> 00:37:02.619 if you haven't heard that scream before, you 00:37:02.619 --> 00:37:05.800 can't imagine what it's like. I've heard it. 00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:15.599 It's lost beyond anything you can imagine. So 00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:23.239 on a brighter note, I think stuff is good. This 00:37:23.239 --> 00:37:27.320 movement towards being healthy. You know, I've 00:37:27.320 --> 00:37:34.019 been doing a lot of reading into... I don't want 00:37:34.019 --> 00:37:35.739 to get religious. I'm not a religious person, 00:37:35.780 --> 00:37:44.280 but... I've been understanding that balance and 00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:50.269 alignment are... And what we're talking about 00:37:50.269 --> 00:37:55.289 in this, what we're doing right now is really 00:37:55.289 --> 00:37:58.429 being in alignment with ourselves. And we talked 00:37:58.429 --> 00:38:02.750 about your physical health and the nutrition 00:38:02.750 --> 00:38:05.989 and all the different parts of being strong and 00:38:05.989 --> 00:38:10.369 being fit for duty. And now we're opening up 00:38:10.369 --> 00:38:18.010 to this mental health idea. I see it in terms 00:38:18.010 --> 00:38:23.329 of alignment and balance. My brother just called 00:38:23.329 --> 00:38:26.969 me last night. He was like, I have AFib. And 00:38:26.969 --> 00:38:29.869 we went down a rabbit hole with that. And I said, 00:38:29.989 --> 00:38:33.070 I guess he's had a few bouts before. What should 00:38:33.070 --> 00:38:37.170 I do and all this stuff? I said, I would try 00:38:37.170 --> 00:38:41.690 to fix the cause. And if it's AFib, that's an 00:38:41.690 --> 00:38:45.300 electrical cause. So you've got magnesium, potassium, 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:48.880 and those are the first two things I look at 00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:53.460 and how that balances. You know, that's the polarity 00:38:53.460 --> 00:38:58.380 for the heartbeat itself. And if you're deficient 00:38:58.380 --> 00:39:01.739 in one or have too much of one, it can be cut 00:39:01.739 --> 00:39:07.340 into balance. And I'm just starting to apply 00:39:07.340 --> 00:39:11.440 that to every situation and what's out of balance 00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:16.250 here. and what's not in alignment. And I'm finding 00:39:16.250 --> 00:39:19.550 in just all, because it all comes down to frequency. 00:39:20.090 --> 00:39:22.110 Been doing a lot of work with that too. That 00:39:22.110 --> 00:39:26.449 was one of the things, the sound and psychedelics 00:39:26.449 --> 00:39:31.010 that actually was the biggest, by far, one thing 00:39:31.010 --> 00:39:34.989 that I did that was healing to me. And again, 00:39:35.369 --> 00:39:37.989 the more I look into that, the more it's about 00:39:37.989 --> 00:39:43.699 frequency and balance. Sorry if I took a little 00:39:43.699 --> 00:39:48.539 detour there, but it's just seeing things in 00:39:48.539 --> 00:39:52.380 a different way and not just like fire service 00:39:52.380 --> 00:39:56.980 and just globally, you know, how does it all 00:39:56.980 --> 00:40:01.559 fit and what's out of balance, out of alignment? 00:40:01.639 --> 00:40:05.840 And you can see so clearly if you look at first 00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:10.110 responders and the... not only the jobs that 00:40:10.110 --> 00:40:13.610 they have the parameters that they work in and 00:40:13.610 --> 00:40:17.610 the dynamics that they work in it's we've created 00:40:17.610 --> 00:40:21.250 i think a system where it is out of balance and 00:40:21.250 --> 00:40:24.750 we could bring it into balance by acknowledging 00:40:24.750 --> 00:40:27.690 the mental health aspect acknowledging that that's 00:40:27.690 --> 00:40:30.670 a huge part of doing this job and being strong 00:40:30.670 --> 00:40:37.260 and clear mentally and emotionally is vital if 00:40:37.260 --> 00:40:40.559 you don't if you don't want your people to be 00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:43.639 miserable at work sick days killing themselves 00:40:43.639 --> 00:40:46.239 in depression and all that stuff so i think it's 00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:48.780 fixable because you know what they tell you you 00:40:48.780 --> 00:40:51.059 just won the lottery you just got this job that 00:40:51.059 --> 00:40:54.500 everybody wants right but the reality is very 00:40:54.500 --> 00:40:58.099 different but it could be that way it could really 00:40:58.099 --> 00:41:01.119 be that way it's a phenomenal job and phenomenal 00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:05.900 people that go into it and just I think it just 00:41:05.900 --> 00:41:11.579 a lot of times makes you become something that 00:41:11.579 --> 00:41:14.340 you don't want to be, that you never intended 00:41:14.340 --> 00:41:21.559 to be. And I think there are less people come 00:41:21.559 --> 00:41:28.599 out unscathed than the people that come out crippled, 00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:32.400 even though you can't see it. And that's an imbalance. 00:41:33.159 --> 00:41:34.780 And I think it's a job that you should be able 00:41:34.780 --> 00:41:37.719 to come out of with knowing that, like, you know, 00:41:37.739 --> 00:41:40.699 let's take the whole career, not just as one 00:41:40.699 --> 00:41:43.360 call, right? You did everything. Yeah, you made 00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:45.059 some, might've made some mistakes, but over the 00:41:45.059 --> 00:41:46.840 whole, you know, looking at that whole career 00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:50.159 and leaving it going, I did, I did good work, 00:41:50.219 --> 00:41:55.539 man. I made a difference. And you can walk away 00:41:55.539 --> 00:42:04.070 with that. I think that's, that's huge. And it 00:42:04.070 --> 00:42:08.530 can carry you into the second part of your life 00:42:08.530 --> 00:42:12.110 rather than retirement and the sort of sunset. 00:42:14.510 --> 00:42:17.349 Yeah, I agree completely. I think this is the 00:42:17.349 --> 00:42:21.510 thing that I came away, really made me start 00:42:21.510 --> 00:42:23.489 the podcast and then ultimately transition out 00:42:23.489 --> 00:42:27.190 to try and fix from the outside. You know, if 00:42:27.190 --> 00:42:28.969 you and I are sitting here now, let's say we're 00:42:28.969 --> 00:42:30.710 in the same place face to face and the meteor 00:42:30.710 --> 00:42:33.170 comes and slams into your garden and we're both 00:42:33.170 --> 00:42:36.250 dead. OK, that was definitely supposed to be 00:42:36.250 --> 00:42:39.590 the time that James and Morgan died. But if you 00:42:39.590 --> 00:42:41.929 know, if you're there and you're dying of congestive 00:42:41.929 --> 00:42:44.449 heart disease and I'm dying of cirrhosis of the 00:42:44.449 --> 00:42:46.570 liver because of my alcoholism and your obesity. 00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:50.559 That's a whole different conversation. If you 00:42:50.559 --> 00:42:52.480 stick a gun in your mouth because of unadjusted 00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:54.840 childhood trauma and organizational betrayal 00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:56.900 and sleep deprivation and side effects of psych 00:42:56.900 --> 00:43:01.000 meds, et cetera, et cetera, then that's preventable. 00:43:01.159 --> 00:43:05.179 And I think this is what really gets me is there's 00:43:05.179 --> 00:43:07.320 the all or nothing mentality, especially in America. 00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:09.360 Someone has an idea and they go, oh, but they 00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:11.400 tried it over there and it didn't work. Like 00:43:11.400 --> 00:43:14.579 welfare, for example. Oh, people, they lie and 00:43:14.579 --> 00:43:17.320 then they buy an Escalade. How many fucking people 00:43:17.320 --> 00:43:21.380 have gone on welfare or government housing and 00:43:21.380 --> 00:43:23.639 then ended up forging incredible careers for 00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:25.900 themselves and getting their own home and having 00:43:25.900 --> 00:43:28.559 a family? We don't talk about that. And it's 00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:31.239 the same with this. So many of these deaths are 00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:33.480 preventable in uniform and the people that we 00:43:33.480 --> 00:43:35.360 serve, whether it's on the roads, whether it's 00:43:35.360 --> 00:43:37.320 the chronic diseases, whether it's the mental 00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:40.280 health side, whether it's the violence. I mean, 00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:42.119 in our profession now, we're seeing more and 00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:44.239 more murder suicides. You know what I mean? That's 00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:47.500 not a fucking coincidence. This is a preventable 00:43:47.500 --> 00:43:51.019 mental health thing again. So this is what's 00:43:51.019 --> 00:43:54.900 so saddening on one side, but again, if you flip 00:43:54.900 --> 00:43:57.400 it around, then there's an opportunity to fix 00:43:57.400 --> 00:44:00.059 it. And for example, you want to revolutionize 00:44:00.059 --> 00:44:03.360 the fire service, do a 24 -72, 42 -hour work 00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:06.820 week, start at bloody 11 a .m. or 12 noon rather 00:44:06.820 --> 00:44:11.250 than 7 in the morning, which is lunacy. And then 00:44:11.250 --> 00:44:14.789 integrate 911 telehealth to take away the calls 00:44:14.789 --> 00:44:16.489 that firefighters should never be going to in 00:44:16.489 --> 00:44:19.570 the first place. Now you will have well -rested 00:44:19.570 --> 00:44:21.570 people that you can put fitness standards in, 00:44:21.650 --> 00:44:24.190 have zero barrier to entry for mental health 00:44:24.190 --> 00:44:26.409 tools. So they're forging that resilience, you 00:44:26.409 --> 00:44:29.309 know, that flow state suit. And then you've got 00:44:29.309 --> 00:44:31.489 a bunch of people that are just so excited to 00:44:31.489 --> 00:44:33.090 go to the station, which is, you know, what you 00:44:33.090 --> 00:44:34.710 hear from these departments that have made the 00:44:34.710 --> 00:44:37.750 switch. They're fully staffed. There's no. you 00:44:37.750 --> 00:44:40.489 know, mandatory overtime anymore. You know, the 00:44:40.489 --> 00:44:42.829 occasional overtime to cover, you know, a multitude 00:44:42.829 --> 00:44:44.730 of sickness, for example, but that's about it. 00:44:45.010 --> 00:44:47.070 And then now on the side, they've got a second 00:44:47.070 --> 00:44:48.849 thing that they love doing. Maybe they do it 00:44:48.849 --> 00:44:50.389 for free. Maybe they do it, you know, on the 00:44:50.389 --> 00:44:53.110 side to make some money. And then just as you 00:44:53.110 --> 00:44:56.349 said, they finish their 20, 25 year career, whatever 00:44:56.349 --> 00:44:58.909 they end up deciding to do. And then they're 00:44:58.909 --> 00:45:01.730 like, that was amazing. What's next? How can 00:45:01.730 --> 00:45:04.190 I take what I've just done and apply it in the 00:45:04.190 --> 00:45:07.539 next thing? But instead we get. worked into the 00:45:07.539 --> 00:45:09.199 ground and everyone's like, oh, I wonder if you're 00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:11.820 going to make it five years. Most don't. That's 00:45:11.820 --> 00:45:14.519 not what should happen after 25 years of selfless 00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:23.920 service. Yeah. I think what your schedule would 00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:28.179 actually give you the time to create something 00:45:28.179 --> 00:45:31.860 with purpose, like something that you do that 00:45:31.860 --> 00:45:37.659 you dovetail into. And coming out of this because 00:45:37.659 --> 00:45:40.079 this whole idea of retiring and then what? I 00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:42.159 mean, then lose your purpose, your identity, 00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:44.840 all this stuff. What do you think is going to 00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:50.500 happen? So I think that's that's again, we need 00:45:50.500 --> 00:45:54.739 purpose in life. We need to strive for something. 00:45:55.260 --> 00:46:00.920 And for me, going to work as a firefighter, as 00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:06.769 a paramedic. It was. It wasn't a purpose. It 00:46:06.769 --> 00:46:10.329 was a thing. It was a job. It was something I 00:46:10.329 --> 00:46:18.889 loved to do. But it wasn't a purpose. It's hard 00:46:18.889 --> 00:46:22.309 to describe. Like right now, I'm trying to fix 00:46:22.309 --> 00:46:25.989 a problem with the high rate of suicide in the 00:46:25.989 --> 00:46:28.670 first responder world. And that's now become 00:46:28.670 --> 00:46:32.079 a purpose for me. I don't know. Maybe it's different. 00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:33.840 I wanted to talk about something else. Maybe 00:46:33.840 --> 00:46:36.679 you can cut this part out. No, no, no, no. I 00:46:36.679 --> 00:46:41.119 think, no, please. I think it's good. It's the 00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:43.619 difference between a firefighter, a single function 00:46:43.619 --> 00:46:46.960 firefighter and a paramedic, firefighter paramedic. 00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:51.780 For me, I, I got into this. So I wanted to be 00:46:51.780 --> 00:46:54.579 a paramedic. I didn't really care about fire. 00:46:54.800 --> 00:46:56.960 Like I didn't even know what they do, like barbecue 00:46:56.960 --> 00:47:02.539 all day. I had no idea, but it's two, what I 00:47:02.539 --> 00:47:07.300 found is that you have two very separate ways 00:47:07.300 --> 00:47:11.260 that they're looking at a call. And as a paramedic, 00:47:11.260 --> 00:47:14.460 it's much more about compassion. It's much more 00:47:14.460 --> 00:47:18.280 person, personal interaction. That's what we 00:47:18.280 --> 00:47:21.800 want to do. We want to heal people, help people 00:47:21.800 --> 00:47:26.400 live. And it seems like the fire, I, the people 00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:29.179 that have gone through fire. They've been cadets 00:47:29.179 --> 00:47:31.480 and they've been hot shots and then they become 00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:35.940 firefighters. It doesn't seem like overall their 00:47:35.940 --> 00:47:43.420 main goal is helping people. It seems like there's 00:47:43.420 --> 00:47:46.239 a different, we're going into the calls with 00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:49.119 different, like a cop too. If you're a cop and 00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:51.019 a paramedic going into a call, you're going to 00:47:51.019 --> 00:47:52.760 the same call, but you have completely different 00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:54.619 jobs and you're viewing it completely different. 00:47:56.340 --> 00:47:59.840 The fire service, just about anywhere, what is 00:47:59.840 --> 00:48:02.699 it, 90%, 85%, 90 % of the calls are medical, 00:48:02.860 --> 00:48:06.420 trauma, rescue, stuff like that. Very few of 00:48:06.420 --> 00:48:09.960 the calls, or very low percentage are fire. And 00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:14.920 yet, the fire department's all about fire. And 00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:21.239 that mentality, to me, creates a rift between 00:48:21.239 --> 00:48:23.920 the paramedics and the single function firefighters. 00:48:24.860 --> 00:48:33.599 And it also, you know, having the main mission 00:48:33.599 --> 00:48:36.820 statement or, you know, what we're doing, it 00:48:36.820 --> 00:48:39.679 seems to me, given the actual reality of the 00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:42.719 job, that it should be slanted towards people 00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:46.659 and the paramedic side of that or the trauma 00:48:46.659 --> 00:48:49.579 and medical. And, I mean, fire is just as important 00:48:49.579 --> 00:48:54.269 for sure, but it's a high. high risk, high whatever 00:48:54.269 --> 00:49:01.510 thing, low occurrence comparatively. But I feel 00:49:01.510 --> 00:49:04.889 like just the way that we look at it as fire 00:49:04.889 --> 00:49:10.210 department, but it's really medical and trauma 00:49:10.210 --> 00:49:14.829 and fire. I guess what I'm trying to say, it's 00:49:14.829 --> 00:49:16.750 the way that we're thinking, the way we're going 00:49:16.750 --> 00:49:26.360 into a call. It really creates friction between 00:49:26.360 --> 00:49:30.940 the paramedics and the firefighters because they're 00:49:30.940 --> 00:49:34.239 not, they have different, they're going into 00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:36.059 it a different way in their heads. Does that 00:49:36.059 --> 00:49:39.260 make any sense to you or have you seen any? Yeah, 00:49:39.280 --> 00:49:42.980 I think where it really, I see it the most, the 00:49:42.980 --> 00:49:45.860 most acutely is, you know, when I entered the 00:49:45.860 --> 00:49:50.110 fire service in 02. Fire and EMS were hand in 00:49:50.110 --> 00:49:52.269 hand. I had to go to EMT school before I could 00:49:52.269 --> 00:49:54.730 go to fire academy. So there was no question. 00:49:55.030 --> 00:49:58.889 And to have people of that era or more recently 00:49:58.889 --> 00:50:03.269 go, oh, I just want to do the fire, then go to 00:50:03.269 --> 00:50:07.750 a different country or just go to FDNY or some 00:50:07.750 --> 00:50:10.469 of these places that still just do fire. Because 00:50:10.469 --> 00:50:13.110 as I've said many times, I love the fact that 00:50:13.110 --> 00:50:15.679 we're a Swiss Army knife. That, you know, two 00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:18.340 or four human beings show up on someone's, you 00:50:18.340 --> 00:50:21.599 know, address and they mitigate their worst disaster, 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:23.860 whatever that looks like. The worst disaster 00:50:23.860 --> 00:50:26.280 could be their elderly partner fell out of bed 00:50:26.280 --> 00:50:29.119 or it could be that their house is on fire and 00:50:29.119 --> 00:50:30.639 they're trapped on the third floor in a bedroom. 00:50:31.199 --> 00:50:35.360 But it's the same human thing. And so, you know, 00:50:35.380 --> 00:50:37.739 like I always say, OK, you know, let's say that 00:50:37.739 --> 00:50:39.719 you subscribe to that for a moment. You're just 00:50:39.719 --> 00:50:41.460 a firefighter and you're beating your chest and 00:50:41.460 --> 00:50:43.570 you're growing your mustache and, you know. putting 00:50:43.570 --> 00:50:45.309 your helmet in the oven to make yourself look 00:50:45.309 --> 00:50:48.829 more badass. And you'd go in and you'd pull someone 00:50:48.829 --> 00:50:53.010 out. It's a real thing. And you'd pull someone 00:50:53.010 --> 00:50:55.389 out. And now they're steaming on the front garden. 00:50:56.030 --> 00:50:59.690 And you don't do EMS. You just pulled a body 00:50:59.690 --> 00:51:02.389 out of a fire. That was it. I can't think of 00:51:02.389 --> 00:51:04.429 anything more useless than pulling someone out 00:51:04.429 --> 00:51:06.130 of a fire, putting all that effort in, and not 00:51:06.130 --> 00:51:09.489 having the advanced ALS skills to then save that 00:51:09.489 --> 00:51:12.469 person's life. So that's the way I look at this. 00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:16.079 Why would you not want to be really good at all 00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:19.300 these things sequentially? I did a lot of special 00:51:19.300 --> 00:51:21.860 ops classes, never joined a team because usually 00:51:21.860 --> 00:51:24.679 historically in the places where I work, the 00:51:24.679 --> 00:51:27.039 teams didn't actually run as many calls. I wanted 00:51:27.039 --> 00:51:28.900 to be out there in the shit. I always worked 00:51:28.900 --> 00:51:31.119 in the hood usually until the last place because 00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:35.789 there was no hood in Disney. You know, that's 00:51:35.789 --> 00:51:37.750 that's why I wanted to help the most desperate 00:51:37.750 --> 00:51:40.630 people. But I took all my ops and tech classes 00:51:40.630 --> 00:51:43.610 so that I was, again, another useful body on 00:51:43.610 --> 00:51:45.969 that call. I can help belay. I can, you know, 00:51:45.969 --> 00:51:49.929 whatever the things need to be. And so this is 00:51:49.929 --> 00:51:51.869 what really blows me away about that disconnect 00:51:51.869 --> 00:51:53.889 that you're talking about, especially in some 00:51:53.889 --> 00:51:56.650 of these new firefighters. You know, they came 00:51:56.650 --> 00:51:59.809 on in like fucking 2024 and they're growing a 00:51:59.809 --> 00:52:01.369 mustache and talking about not wanting to do 00:52:01.369 --> 00:52:04.619 EMS. like then you're living in a fairy tale 00:52:04.619 --> 00:52:07.599 yeah but to me this is what makes american you 00:52:07.599 --> 00:52:10.840 know and canadian fire so incredible and there's 00:52:10.840 --> 00:52:13.860 dublin shout out to dublin they do this too um 00:52:13.860 --> 00:52:18.460 is to get on a rig and have such a diverse set 00:52:18.460 --> 00:52:20.800 of skills that you might have to use and try 00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:23.139 and stay on top of those and try and then as 00:52:23.139 --> 00:52:24.820 we talk about your mental health and your physical 00:52:24.820 --> 00:52:26.679 health and you know fitness and all that stuff 00:52:26.679 --> 00:52:29.900 that is the job that is what makes it so amazing 00:52:29.900 --> 00:52:31.920 because you can be a single syrup medic and you 00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:35.380 know That would be a good job. But to me, then 00:52:35.380 --> 00:52:37.400 I get to go in a fire or cut someone out of a 00:52:37.400 --> 00:52:39.460 car or hang off the side of a building on a rope 00:52:39.460 --> 00:52:42.699 or go into a tunnel or jump into a lake. And 00:52:42.699 --> 00:52:44.960 that's all still under this job description. 00:52:46.280 --> 00:52:49.019 That's why I was like, well, as a paramedic, 00:52:49.019 --> 00:52:51.079 this is great. But as a firefighter, I can access 00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:53.699 people in environments that I can't access them 00:52:53.699 --> 00:52:56.159 as a paramedic. And I became a paramedic because 00:52:56.159 --> 00:53:01.719 the EMT wasn't enough. I wanted to have... I 00:53:01.719 --> 00:53:07.260 love that about being able to just get on a call, 00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:10.500 come on a call, whatever it is, and leave there 00:53:10.500 --> 00:53:13.500 having mitigated the situation. It really is 00:53:13.500 --> 00:53:17.699 an incredible feeling to be able to do that. 00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:24.519 I think going back to the work week, the recruitment 00:53:24.519 --> 00:53:27.099 crisis, the retention crisis, I think if we invest 00:53:27.099 --> 00:53:30.250 back into the men and women, that surf selflessly 00:53:30.250 --> 00:53:32.570 and leave their loved ones 24 hours at a time. 00:53:32.869 --> 00:53:35.449 And given an environment where they do get the 00:53:35.449 --> 00:53:37.670 rest and recovery they deserve, that will then 00:53:37.670 --> 00:53:41.150 create such an interest back into our profession 00:53:41.150 --> 00:53:42.989 again, because young people here that were not 00:53:42.989 --> 00:53:45.829 dying in droves anymore, and it is healthy, and 00:53:45.829 --> 00:53:47.550 you won't have to stay away from your family 00:53:47.550 --> 00:53:50.670 for eight hours a week. Now you're going to have 00:53:50.670 --> 00:53:54.800 this mass... recruitment boost again, which again, 00:53:54.900 --> 00:53:57.539 Gainesville and Pasco County and Destin, Florida, 00:53:57.659 --> 00:53:59.900 they're all seeing this. The ones that have gone 00:53:59.900 --> 00:54:02.300 to it the last couple of years or so, their lists 00:54:02.300 --> 00:54:06.059 are huge again. Now you take that top 10%, now 00:54:06.059 --> 00:54:08.900 you've got a department of people who really 00:54:08.900 --> 00:54:11.500 understand and their purpose is actually to help 00:54:11.500 --> 00:54:14.119 people, not to be on Instagram in the uniform. 00:54:14.420 --> 00:54:18.159 So I think that you'll change the culture. When 00:54:18.159 --> 00:54:20.219 you fix the problem and then you'll be able to 00:54:20.219 --> 00:54:22.639 squeeze out that, like you said, that kind of 00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:25.900 divisive antagonistic or I only do fire bullshit 00:54:25.900 --> 00:54:28.280 that we hear because, you know, if you're the 00:54:28.280 --> 00:54:30.820 right kind of candidate, you should have, you 00:54:30.820 --> 00:54:33.260 know, your quiver should be full of all different 00:54:33.260 --> 00:54:35.199 types of arrows that you can pull out when needed. 00:54:35.400 --> 00:54:40.139 Yeah. I mean, I just think that we got to start 00:54:40.139 --> 00:54:42.739 talking about the fire service as what the fire 00:54:42.739 --> 00:54:46.940 service is. It's the medical trauma service. 00:54:47.710 --> 00:54:52.730 with fire the whole mentality you in order to 00:54:52.730 --> 00:54:55.030 change the culture i feel you've got to change 00:54:55.030 --> 00:54:58.610 the mentality and and if you look back you know 00:54:58.610 --> 00:55:01.369 the fire departments they were established they're 00:55:01.369 --> 00:55:04.050 running calls they're they're set up to run calls 00:55:04.050 --> 00:55:07.150 24 7 for emergencies and stuff so it made sense 00:55:07.150 --> 00:55:10.010 to put the paramedics in there when they when 00:55:10.010 --> 00:55:11.730 they came up with paramedics to put it in the 00:55:11.730 --> 00:55:15.070 fire service but we're still operating as if 00:55:15.070 --> 00:55:19.519 fire is our main thing and it's not you you're 00:55:19.519 --> 00:55:21.719 not you know we don't tell these young firefighters 00:55:21.719 --> 00:55:23.760 yeah you're gonna go be fighting fires all the 00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:26.300 stuff they don't know that they're that they're 00:55:26.300 --> 00:55:28.860 gonna be you know walking through vomit and blood 00:55:28.860 --> 00:55:32.679 piss and shit you know they're like i'm not a 00:55:32.679 --> 00:55:36.199 paramedic you do that you're the puke and it's 00:55:36.199 --> 00:55:38.719 like yeah i am this is what we do this is our 00:55:38.719 --> 00:55:43.340 job and so like you said the guy was two years 00:55:43.340 --> 00:55:47.420 on the handlebar mustache it's We got to be real. 00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:50.340 We got to talk about I want to change the culture 00:55:50.340 --> 00:55:53.739 because I feel like changing the culture is what's 00:55:53.739 --> 00:55:56.340 going to save lives and the stuff you're doing 00:55:56.340 --> 00:55:58.820 with this sleep deprivation. But I don't know 00:55:58.820 --> 00:56:01.900 if you saw my second TEDx talk about the one 00:56:01.900 --> 00:56:04.739 in the white shirt. And it's all about I didn't. 00:56:05.199 --> 00:56:07.960 And you mentioned Victorian England. And that's 00:56:07.960 --> 00:56:10.460 where it comes from. From what I understand, 00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:13.800 this suck it up buttercup culture comes from 00:56:13.800 --> 00:56:17.519 the Industrial Revolution. when they were making 00:56:17.519 --> 00:56:20.619 um you know they had these discoveries that we 00:56:20.619 --> 00:56:22.360 were helping stuff in the farm so you didn't 00:56:22.360 --> 00:56:23.940 need as much people and then you had like the 00:56:23.940 --> 00:56:26.440 spinning jenny and those inventions in the cities 00:56:26.440 --> 00:56:29.239 and factories so you have this huge mass migration 00:56:29.239 --> 00:56:32.219 to the cities and this horrible this complete 00:56:32.219 --> 00:56:34.420 change of life from you know moving with the 00:56:34.420 --> 00:56:37.840 seasons to being on time and done that's that 00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:40.239 was the beginning and then world war one comes 00:56:40.239 --> 00:56:42.510 and they're already set up to you know suffer 00:56:42.510 --> 00:56:45.110 and endure in silence in world war ii and then 00:56:45.110 --> 00:56:48.550 we get the the model of the james after world 00:56:48.550 --> 00:56:52.630 war ii you know you have gi joe or the um um 00:56:52.630 --> 00:56:56.550 the what's the duke what was his name john john 00:56:56.550 --> 00:57:00.869 wayne is this is the picture of the modern day 00:57:00.869 --> 00:57:03.610 hero you know take it all and right off into 00:57:03.610 --> 00:57:06.769 the sunset and i think that's what we were basing 00:57:06.769 --> 00:57:11.369 this whole hero thing of the fire service on 00:57:11.369 --> 00:57:15.409 is that we can take it all and and we're superhuman 00:57:15.409 --> 00:57:20.409 and now we're discovering that we're not and 00:57:20.409 --> 00:57:27.030 anyway i i just i just i pull back and when i 00:57:27.030 --> 00:57:34.929 see it um sorry um if we really want to make 00:57:34.929 --> 00:57:37.349 some change we got to talk about What we do is 00:57:37.349 --> 00:57:39.969 we do medical and trauma calls and fire. And, 00:57:40.070 --> 00:57:43.070 you know, yes, we need to be dialed in on fire. 00:57:43.190 --> 00:57:45.650 We need to be dialed in on everything. We have 00:57:45.650 --> 00:57:47.690 to have that whole skill set, be able to use 00:57:47.690 --> 00:57:52.630 all the tools, and then train on it all instead 00:57:52.630 --> 00:57:55.730 of only training on fire. You know, train on 00:57:55.730 --> 00:57:58.289 all this stuff so we can be great. There's a 00:57:58.289 --> 00:58:00.889 guy that he also walked away from the fire department 00:58:00.889 --> 00:58:03.329 after, I think, 14 years, and I had a conversation 00:58:03.329 --> 00:58:06.510 with him. he became a paramedic after like seven 00:58:06.510 --> 00:58:09.849 years and he really saw came back to the station 00:58:09.849 --> 00:58:12.110 after you know he was in he was a firefighter 00:58:12.110 --> 00:58:16.010 one of the boys he's in with the station he goes 00:58:16.010 --> 00:58:18.110 to paramedic school comes back to the station 00:58:18.110 --> 00:58:20.449 and they tell him we go sit over there with the 00:58:20.449 --> 00:58:22.449 captains you know you're not a firefighter anymore 00:58:22.449 --> 00:58:27.849 and so he really did got to see the the difference 00:58:27.849 --> 00:58:29.989 in the way he was treated and he had already 00:58:29.989 --> 00:58:35.449 been a kick -ass firefighter so um he ended up 00:58:35.449 --> 00:58:37.670 getting called i think on his way home from work 00:58:37.670 --> 00:58:40.590 coming off of four or five days in a row and 00:58:40.590 --> 00:58:42.030 they wanted to assign hire him and he's just 00:58:42.030 --> 00:58:47.969 like no and so he quits the and where he lives 00:58:47.969 --> 00:58:49.610 people were telling him you should join this 00:58:49.610 --> 00:58:52.110 fire department here he's like no i'm done with 00:58:52.110 --> 00:58:54.610 fire you know he's just not into it at all but 00:58:54.610 --> 00:58:56.869 anyway they talk him into it so he goes through 00:58:56.869 --> 00:59:02.619 the academy and uh now and all the Every firefighter 00:59:02.619 --> 00:59:05.480 in this fire department is also a paramedic. 00:59:06.320 --> 00:59:10.400 There's no EMTs. So he comes into the station 00:59:10.400 --> 00:59:12.739 the first day, and he's got all the armor on. 00:59:12.820 --> 00:59:15.519 He's ready to throw the shots, and he's ready 00:59:15.519 --> 00:59:18.579 for war. And he comes in, and they're like, hey, 00:59:18.639 --> 00:59:20.940 man, great to see you. Welcome to the station. 00:59:21.219 --> 00:59:24.059 Put your stuff here. How do you like your coffee? 00:59:24.400 --> 00:59:27.960 Yada, yada. He said that they've had, for every 00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:32.980 save, cardiac arrest save um that they had at 00:59:32.980 --> 00:59:37.960 la they're having like 10 10 to 1 because of 00:59:37.960 --> 00:59:41.360 the level of care that they're giving that's 00:59:41.360 --> 00:59:44.739 that's real time stuff i mean that's real world 00:59:44.739 --> 00:59:48.800 experience that he's having with with the level 00:59:48.800 --> 00:59:52.599 of give a about the medical calls is just as 00:59:52.599 --> 00:59:55.440 important to everybody not just the paramedic 00:59:55.440 --> 00:59:58.639 on scene but everybody there And the results 00:59:58.639 --> 01:00:02.619 are speaking for themselves. So that's why another 01:00:02.619 --> 01:00:06.500 thing to back up this idea that changing the 01:00:06.500 --> 01:00:09.780 way that we think about this industry, the fire 01:00:09.780 --> 01:00:13.000 industry, would really help to change the culture. 01:00:14.679 --> 01:00:17.519 Absolutely. Well, I want to go all the way back 01:00:17.519 --> 01:00:19.539 because you've got a really interesting life 01:00:19.539 --> 01:00:25.280 prior to even joining the fire service. When 01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:27.679 you were in the school age, obviously you talked 01:00:27.679 --> 01:00:31.219 about the actors that you already had in your 01:00:31.219 --> 01:00:33.659 family. Was that something you were already dreaming 01:00:33.659 --> 01:00:36.139 of becoming or was there something else? There 01:00:36.139 --> 01:00:40.619 was, from what I saw, I would never be an actor 01:00:40.619 --> 01:00:44.559 ever in my life. One thing I didn't want to be, 01:00:44.699 --> 01:00:48.360 you know, Cloris Leachman's son, the actor, you 01:00:48.360 --> 01:00:54.420 know, and always wonder how I got that job. And 01:00:54.420 --> 01:00:58.500 for another, I, I wasn't, I was sort of Hollywood 01:00:58.500 --> 01:01:00.860 adjacent. I didn't really know anything, but 01:01:00.860 --> 01:01:02.880 like my mom would drop me off at Paul Newman's 01:01:02.880 --> 01:01:05.460 house and I'd stay there for three or four or 01:01:05.460 --> 01:01:08.380 five days. And I didn't know, I mean, I knew 01:01:08.380 --> 01:01:12.019 he was an actor and, but I didn't really know 01:01:12.019 --> 01:01:15.679 who he was. He was just a cool dude that made 01:01:15.679 --> 01:01:19.099 great spaghetti and drove us all in his back 01:01:19.099 --> 01:01:21.920 of his Corvette at 90 miles an hour on Mulholland. 01:01:24.230 --> 01:01:29.610 I just saw, I think I really saw the, the fakeness 01:01:29.610 --> 01:01:34.269 in it and people that were just thought much 01:01:34.269 --> 01:01:37.150 of themselves. I'm like, dude, you're just another 01:01:37.150 --> 01:01:41.070 person. So for many reasons, I, that was absolutely 01:01:41.070 --> 01:01:42.869 something that was never in the cards for me 01:01:42.869 --> 01:01:49.619 at all. So, no. With Paul Newman, the legacy 01:01:49.619 --> 01:01:52.420 that he left behind with all the charity money 01:01:52.420 --> 01:01:54.760 that's raised through the food products that 01:01:54.760 --> 01:01:58.000 you can buy, what was he like as a person? Remove 01:01:58.000 --> 01:01:59.900 the acting now. What was he like as a human being? 01:01:59.940 --> 01:02:03.039 I don't know anything about the acting. He was 01:02:03.039 --> 01:02:10.500 an awesome guy. He was just really cool. He was 01:02:10.500 --> 01:02:14.159 just a great guy. He had three daughters. One 01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:16.079 was sort of my age. One was a little younger. 01:02:16.670 --> 01:02:20.690 I was a little older, and I played with them. 01:02:21.269 --> 01:02:24.070 They were all into riding horses, so they'd have 01:02:24.070 --> 01:02:26.010 the stick horses, and we'd go running around, 01:02:26.150 --> 01:02:30.949 jumping over things. No, I remember him as a 01:02:30.949 --> 01:02:34.349 great guy. I ran into him later. He was racing, 01:02:34.409 --> 01:02:38.230 or his team was racing up in Monterey. There's 01:02:38.230 --> 01:02:40.010 an amazing track up there. I can't come to the 01:02:40.010 --> 01:02:42.630 name right now, but I had this girl I was dating, 01:02:42.750 --> 01:02:47.219 and I went. and i hadn't seen him in years but 01:02:47.219 --> 01:02:49.579 i somehow got onto the track and got his attention 01:02:49.579 --> 01:02:52.639 he was just so cool you know he had us in the 01:02:52.639 --> 01:02:56.679 thing and um yeah he was he was just a great 01:02:56.679 --> 01:03:01.659 guy and then my father was so my mother was part 01:03:01.659 --> 01:03:06.059 of this the actor's studio which was um lee strausberg 01:03:06.059 --> 01:03:11.079 i believe um in marlon brando joanne woodward 01:03:11.079 --> 01:03:14.239 uh my mom there was all these people that became 01:03:14.239 --> 01:03:19.139 huge dark later and marlin supposedly had a crush 01:03:19.139 --> 01:03:22.519 on my mother but she would never give it up huge 01:03:22.519 --> 01:03:28.679 womanizer um but uh and so when when my mom married 01:03:28.679 --> 01:03:32.579 my dad lauren's like i gotta see who this guy 01:03:32.579 --> 01:03:36.019 is you know so they become best friends throughout 01:03:36.019 --> 01:03:38.239 life and a lot of parallels a lot of similarities 01:03:38.239 --> 01:03:46.500 um he would call the time um quite a very different 01:03:46.500 --> 01:03:51.099 person than anybody else on earth um he was really 01:03:51.099 --> 01:03:54.420 cool i ruptured my kidney in high school and 01:03:54.420 --> 01:03:59.719 my my parents were out of town nobody was there 01:03:59.719 --> 01:04:02.539 i was there for weeks and he came i'll never 01:04:02.539 --> 01:04:04.440 forget he came with his wife and he brought me 01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:08.260 haagen -dazs chocolate chip ice cream haagen 01:04:08.260 --> 01:04:12.369 -dazs had just become a thing then and uh But 01:04:12.369 --> 01:04:17.030 I didn't know these people as actors, as their 01:04:17.030 --> 01:04:19.949 career. I wasn't plugged into that at all. I 01:04:19.949 --> 01:04:26.489 could really give a shit. And so, and my father 01:04:26.489 --> 01:04:29.289 was also like, never take anything from your 01:04:29.289 --> 01:04:34.889 mother, never. He was just really looked down 01:04:34.889 --> 01:04:36.730 on the whole industry, even though he was in 01:04:36.730 --> 01:04:39.710 it. So, yeah, it was never an option for me to 01:04:39.710 --> 01:04:41.909 be an actor, although I did become one, and I 01:04:41.909 --> 01:04:44.449 can tell you about that. Yeah, I was going to 01:04:44.449 --> 01:04:48.030 say, so you got this refusal to enter that space. 01:04:48.090 --> 01:04:49.789 How did you find yourself entering that space? 01:04:50.289 --> 01:04:53.630 So, like I said, I ruptured my kidney in high 01:04:53.630 --> 01:04:57.550 school, and it turns out I have this horseshoe 01:04:57.550 --> 01:05:00.389 kidney where my kidneys are fused across my abdomen. 01:05:01.170 --> 01:05:03.389 And so I got hit in the abdomen, which nothing 01:05:03.389 --> 01:05:06.599 is supposed to be there. and I ruptured my kidney 01:05:06.599 --> 01:05:10.980 out, and I almost bled out. They didn't end up 01:05:10.980 --> 01:05:13.260 doing surgery, but I had so much blood in there. 01:05:13.320 --> 01:05:15.519 When it did coagulate, it was like a grapefruit, 01:05:15.599 --> 01:05:19.099 and I would sleep on one side. I'd push it like 01:05:19.099 --> 01:05:20.579 that, and it would pop over to the other side. 01:05:22.599 --> 01:05:25.059 So it took a long time to heal from that. So 01:05:25.059 --> 01:05:27.920 they said, this horseshoe kidney, you're done 01:05:27.920 --> 01:05:30.579 with football. No way can you ever play again. 01:05:31.960 --> 01:05:35.440 But for me, Football, when I found football in 01:05:35.440 --> 01:05:38.199 11th grade, it was life changing. I was going 01:05:38.199 --> 01:05:40.159 in a really bad direction. I was getting arrested. 01:05:40.320 --> 01:05:43.380 I'd been expelled from three junior high schools 01:05:43.380 --> 01:05:47.059 and really not going the right way. So finding 01:05:47.059 --> 01:05:49.960 football was a life changer for me. The discipline, 01:05:50.239 --> 01:05:52.280 the father figure, the brotherhood, all of it. 01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:56.059 And I wasn't ready to let it go. I mean, it was 01:05:56.059 --> 01:06:00.690 my identity now. And so I went to junior college 01:06:00.690 --> 01:06:03.230 in Monterey. It was one of the most competitive 01:06:03.230 --> 01:06:08.829 ones in the state. And played two years there. 01:06:08.909 --> 01:06:13.289 Then I went to Colorado to play at University 01:06:13.289 --> 01:06:17.590 of Colorado Boulder. And during the summer conditioning, 01:06:18.030 --> 01:06:21.030 we had to meet with the doctor and fill out our 01:06:21.030 --> 01:06:22.690 questionnaire. And I had mentioned horseshoe 01:06:22.690 --> 01:06:26.090 kidneys. He's like, oh, sit down. And he goes, 01:06:26.190 --> 01:06:30.179 oh. He goes, right. There was nothing else. We 01:06:30.179 --> 01:06:32.260 didn't talk. He goes, I don't see you have a 01:06:32.260 --> 01:06:35.840 horseshoe kidney. I was like, yeah. Well, that 01:06:35.840 --> 01:06:38.739 started a three -week battery of tests. I had 01:06:38.739 --> 01:06:42.860 five specialists looking at it, doing the MRIs 01:06:42.860 --> 01:06:47.460 and the drinking, all that crap. And I came in 01:06:47.460 --> 01:06:52.059 to meet the coach on the day to find out what 01:06:52.059 --> 01:06:55.380 the verdict was. and when I walked in the door, 01:06:55.480 --> 01:06:58.159 it's not just the football coach, it's all the 01:06:58.159 --> 01:07:01.679 sports, and they have sort of, it's all partitioned 01:07:01.679 --> 01:07:05.159 off, and there's glass partitions on the upper 01:07:05.159 --> 01:07:07.480 part. It's glass. You can see all the way, and 01:07:07.480 --> 01:07:11.300 I opened the door, and I saw the coach all the 01:07:11.300 --> 01:07:14.760 way at the other end, and we locked eyes. I just 01:07:14.760 --> 01:07:18.280 went, oh, I walk over and get there, and the 01:07:18.280 --> 01:07:21.260 doctor's there, and I sit down. No, I'm standing 01:07:21.260 --> 01:07:23.949 there, and I say, well, am I in or out? And he 01:07:23.949 --> 01:07:26.110 says, you know, sit down. I said, no, I don't 01:07:26.110 --> 01:07:27.809 want to. He goes, no, I need to explain. It's 01:07:27.809 --> 01:07:30.210 like, don't fucking explain it. Just yes or no. 01:07:31.889 --> 01:07:34.489 He goes, please. And the coach is like, more 01:07:34.489 --> 01:07:38.730 than just sit down. And so basically it's a no. 01:07:38.829 --> 01:07:42.530 He tells me, you know, if we, if we, if there's 01:07:42.530 --> 01:07:44.710 any way we could let you play, it would be, but 01:07:44.710 --> 01:07:47.650 you know, this is the big eight. You take a hit 01:07:47.650 --> 01:07:51.269 here and you'll bleed to death before we can 01:07:51.269 --> 01:07:53.920 even get to you. You can take it through law 01:07:53.920 --> 01:07:56.420 and do that stuff. But, you know, we just can't 01:07:56.420 --> 01:07:58.800 be conscious to allow you to play anymore. So 01:07:58.800 --> 01:08:03.619 that was the end of that. And I just, this was 01:08:03.619 --> 01:08:15.300 1983. And this is the middle of cocaine era. 01:08:17.279 --> 01:08:21.979 And I just, I was at this college and. And I 01:08:21.979 --> 01:08:24.659 just started getting just fucked up every night. 01:08:25.659 --> 01:08:29.920 So was everybody else. But then this guy that 01:08:29.920 --> 01:08:32.319 I'd become friends with said, hey, you know, 01:08:32.340 --> 01:08:34.119 I'm going to take this acting class. You want 01:08:34.119 --> 01:08:35.539 to take it with me? I'm like, yeah, whatever. 01:08:36.600 --> 01:08:40.439 But I took it and I did, I had this first monologue 01:08:40.439 --> 01:08:43.640 and I stood up there and I'm just doodling with 01:08:43.640 --> 01:08:46.560 my, you know. My finger's going around my belly 01:08:46.560 --> 01:08:48.640 button, and I'm just really awkward, and it's 01:08:48.640 --> 01:08:51.000 terrible. I go back and sit in the audience, 01:08:51.220 --> 01:08:54.880 and this other girl gets up, and she goes onto 01:08:54.880 --> 01:08:56.680 the stage, and she starts putting stuff around, 01:08:57.000 --> 01:08:58.979 and she moves this over here, moves that over 01:08:58.979 --> 01:09:01.399 there. We're all talking, waiting for her to 01:09:01.399 --> 01:09:05.300 set up, but she's creating this room. And, you 01:09:05.300 --> 01:09:06.899 know, the lights stand here, and this is it. 01:09:07.220 --> 01:09:11.000 By the time she had that all set up, she lays 01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:13.619 down on the bed. and we're at the edge of our 01:09:13.619 --> 01:09:15.800 seats like what's going to happen next because 01:09:15.800 --> 01:09:19.520 she created this whole world and i was blown 01:09:19.520 --> 01:09:24.140 away by her performance and i'm like wow i was 01:09:24.140 --> 01:09:27.760 just on that exact same stage and the difference 01:09:27.760 --> 01:09:31.819 between what i did and what she did i won't do 01:09:31.819 --> 01:09:39.279 that and so um once once i just it was like in 01:09:39.279 --> 01:09:44.260 my blood this is what I have to do. And that 01:09:44.260 --> 01:09:46.140 I ended up doing a couple of plays and they, 01:09:46.199 --> 01:09:49.760 I got into the BFA program for acting or they 01:09:49.760 --> 01:09:52.859 wanted me to go in and I'm like, you know, this 01:09:52.859 --> 01:09:56.220 is not where if I'm going to act, I need to be 01:09:56.220 --> 01:09:59.739 in New York, not LA around, you know, in Hollywood 01:09:59.739 --> 01:10:04.000 and New York where the artists are. And so I, 01:10:04.039 --> 01:10:06.359 I auditioned for this school in New York. It's 01:10:06.359 --> 01:10:09.500 like kind of like Juilliard for acting and theater. 01:10:11.180 --> 01:10:14.220 And while I was in that, I got a part in a play 01:10:14.220 --> 01:10:16.979 here in Los Angeles at the Amundsen Theater, 01:10:17.119 --> 01:10:19.699 which is like Broadway in New York. I mean, you 01:10:19.699 --> 01:10:21.199 don't get any bigger than the Amundsen Theater. 01:10:21.619 --> 01:10:24.180 All -star cast, Dick Van Patten, Michael Learned, 01:10:24.260 --> 01:10:27.920 Rue McClanahan, Kachata Farrell, just the whole 01:10:27.920 --> 01:10:31.199 cast, Jennifer Jason Leigh, Gregory Harrison, 01:10:31.500 --> 01:10:34.380 all -star cast, and me. I had this cool little 01:10:34.380 --> 01:10:36.640 parts of it. But while I was in rehearsal, my 01:10:36.640 --> 01:10:42.829 brother died. We OD'd in New York. And that really 01:10:42.829 --> 01:10:44.949 messed me up for a couple of years. But then 01:10:44.949 --> 01:10:48.010 I decided, yeah, I do want to be a working actor. 01:10:48.130 --> 01:10:50.149 I want to be a working actor. Went back to New 01:10:50.149 --> 01:10:53.510 York. And one thing I didn't do was audition 01:10:53.510 --> 01:10:57.649 for soap operas because I didn't want to do them. 01:10:58.909 --> 01:11:02.329 So I said, well, if I want to be a working actor, 01:11:02.529 --> 01:11:05.750 then I'm cutting out a huge part of the business. 01:11:05.789 --> 01:11:09.199 So I opened that up and six months later, I did 01:11:09.199 --> 01:11:11.119 a lot of theater, but I ended up getting this 01:11:11.119 --> 01:11:14.039 soap opera and doing a role on there for about 01:11:14.039 --> 01:11:18.880 five and a half years. And then I moved. I was 01:11:18.880 --> 01:11:24.000 not in a great marriage. And I knew that I'd 01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:27.100 watch other people get like a new producer would 01:11:27.100 --> 01:11:29.500 come in and then fire a bunch of people and bring 01:11:29.500 --> 01:11:33.840 her or his actors in that they wanted. And I 01:11:33.840 --> 01:11:35.880 just really saw that this wasn't stable and I 01:11:35.880 --> 01:11:38.939 didn't want to get stuck in New York. So I quit 01:11:38.939 --> 01:11:43.119 the show, and I moved us all back to California, 01:11:43.279 --> 01:11:48.319 to Los Angeles. And I was trying to act here, 01:11:48.500 --> 01:11:53.220 but I couldn't stand the Hollywood of it, the 01:11:53.220 --> 01:12:00.119 arrogance, and just couldn't stand it. And then 01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:03.340 we were about to get into a divorce, and I realized 01:12:03.340 --> 01:12:06.289 that I needed to... have something steady that 01:12:06.289 --> 01:12:09.890 I could rely on that I could be proud of and 01:12:09.890 --> 01:12:15.829 do. And then, so that, so I got into my EMT and 01:12:15.829 --> 01:12:19.789 started doing ski patrol. Then some really gnarly 01:12:19.789 --> 01:12:21.930 stuff happened in my family. And that I just 01:12:21.930 --> 01:12:24.689 completely went into, I was like, I'm going for 01:12:24.689 --> 01:12:29.529 paramedic. And I, I left it all behind and went 01:12:29.529 --> 01:12:31.869 full a hundred percent into the first responder 01:12:31.869 --> 01:12:40.149 world. So you do the EMS journey. Did you work 01:12:40.149 --> 01:12:43.050 as a medic before you went to the fireside? Yeah. 01:12:43.210 --> 01:12:44.750 As far as the fire academy? Yeah, I didn't. Like 01:12:44.750 --> 01:12:47.149 I said, I mean, I wanted to be a paramedic. That's 01:12:47.149 --> 01:12:52.149 what I wanted to do. I was an EMT. I was doing 01:12:52.149 --> 01:12:56.750 ski patrol. And I was like, this is really, I 01:12:56.750 --> 01:13:00.550 do love this. I do want to do it. But I don't 01:13:00.550 --> 01:13:03.270 want to just be able to show up and offer a Band 01:13:03.270 --> 01:13:04.710 -Aid. I want to be able to make a difference. 01:13:05.369 --> 01:13:07.390 So that was clearly the paramedic. There was 01:13:07.390 --> 01:13:12.369 another paramedic that was a young guy. He was 01:13:12.369 --> 01:13:14.229 another ski patroller. And I just thought, wow, 01:13:14.350 --> 01:13:17.350 man, he tells stories. I was like, yeah, it's 01:13:17.350 --> 01:13:25.390 amazing. I want to do that. So I did. How competitive 01:13:25.390 --> 01:13:28.569 was it to get hired as a firefighter paramedic? 01:13:28.670 --> 01:13:33.640 And what year was that you were trying? Well, 01:13:33.739 --> 01:13:36.020 I had heard throughout my life, like, don't even 01:13:36.020 --> 01:13:40.960 bother because you're white. And but I'd forgotten 01:13:40.960 --> 01:13:44.180 about all that. It was just once I became a paramedic, 01:13:44.199 --> 01:13:51.340 it was the natural next step. And I wanted to 01:13:51.340 --> 01:13:54.680 be at L .A. City. I didn't really I did test 01:13:54.680 --> 01:13:58.020 for some other places. Then I think a big department 01:13:58.020 --> 01:14:01.159 like that is you just got to keep showing up. 01:14:01.279 --> 01:14:05.189 You just got to keep. doing you know well also 01:14:05.189 --> 01:14:09.630 i was 39 40 i turned 41 in the tower in the academy 01:14:09.630 --> 01:14:12.649 so there was probably a little more paperwork 01:14:12.649 --> 01:14:15.029 for me to do and things and hoops i needed to 01:14:15.029 --> 01:14:19.789 jump through um but ultimately it was just continue 01:14:19.789 --> 01:14:23.250 to show up i think with smaller departments it's 01:14:23.250 --> 01:14:26.069 more like do we like you do you fit in here with 01:14:26.069 --> 01:14:31.670 la city it's just um just keep showing up and 01:14:31.670 --> 01:14:35.630 and do what to tell you so it seems sort of inevitable 01:14:35.630 --> 01:14:40.449 looking back but maybe it's not i don't really 01:14:40.449 --> 01:14:45.710 know how i got in or or you know i just kept 01:14:45.710 --> 01:14:49.949 showing up with them and the other the the other 01:14:49.949 --> 01:14:54.850 ones i the interviews are different you know 01:14:54.850 --> 01:14:57.090 it's uh they're more personal and smaller department 01:14:57.090 --> 01:15:00.010 i'm thinking ventura city ventura county some 01:15:00.010 --> 01:15:05.210 of the other interviews that i had which I didn't 01:15:05.210 --> 01:15:10.770 get. So I don't know. I ended up getting it. 01:15:10.770 --> 01:15:16.390 This was 2004 when I got hired. Okay. That's 01:15:16.390 --> 01:15:19.920 exactly when I got hired. Yeah, I got hired in 01:15:19.920 --> 01:15:23.260 Florida in 2004 and then hired by Anaheim in 01:15:23.260 --> 01:15:26.920 2005. So, you know, in California, I've said 01:15:26.920 --> 01:15:29.260 this on here many times, for Anaheim, at the 01:15:29.260 --> 01:15:32.760 written test were a thousand certified firefighter 01:15:32.760 --> 01:15:37.039 EMTs or paramedics. And most of them, yeah, and 01:15:37.039 --> 01:15:39.319 they had resumes. As you said earlier, you know, 01:15:39.319 --> 01:15:42.300 they were CDF, they were explorers, they were, 01:15:42.300 --> 01:15:44.920 you know, ambulance operators. So it wasn't even 01:15:44.920 --> 01:15:47.449 just, you know. you know bright -eyed and bushy 01:15:47.449 --> 01:15:49.010 -tailed they've been trying some of them for 01:15:49.010 --> 01:15:51.710 years to get hired yeah i think this going back 01:15:51.710 --> 01:15:54.750 to how we fixed the fire service we got to forget 01:15:54.750 --> 01:15:57.770 that there was a massive demand back in the day 01:15:57.770 --> 01:16:01.050 and we've lost that like we destroyed that and 01:16:01.050 --> 01:16:03.890 it wasn't even 9 -11 because i recently i was 01:16:03.890 --> 01:16:05.670 like oh yeah but it was you know post 9 -11 there 01:16:05.670 --> 01:16:08.390 was a big push but no because ask the guys that 01:16:08.390 --> 01:16:10.449 came on men and women that came on prior to 9 01:16:10.449 --> 01:16:14.369 -11 it was still super super competitive so you 01:16:14.369 --> 01:16:16.760 know There is a love for this job. And the reason 01:16:16.760 --> 01:16:18.260 why I'm still doing this, the reason why you're 01:16:18.260 --> 01:16:19.979 still talking about what you do is because of 01:16:19.979 --> 01:16:22.479 the love of the job. But we have to acknowledge 01:16:22.479 --> 01:16:26.039 how competitive it was up to only about 10 years 01:16:26.039 --> 01:16:29.460 ago and how far we've fallen from that to now. 01:16:29.779 --> 01:16:31.840 You've got agencies offering tens of thousands 01:16:31.840 --> 01:16:34.460 of dollars as a hiring bonus, begging high school 01:16:34.460 --> 01:16:37.060 kids to, they'll train them, everything. Just 01:16:37.060 --> 01:16:39.380 please, please come, you know, be a firefighter 01:16:39.380 --> 01:16:41.680 with us. And then we wonder why we have some 01:16:41.680 --> 01:16:43.319 of the issues that we have, you know, today. 01:16:43.840 --> 01:16:45.880 But I think it's really important for people 01:16:45.880 --> 01:16:48.300 to know what that looked like. Trying to get 01:16:48.300 --> 01:16:50.960 hired just, you know, again, 10, 15, 20 years 01:16:50.960 --> 01:16:55.760 ago was so hard. Yeah, that, you know, I don't 01:16:55.760 --> 01:16:59.220 know how it is now, but I do know that they were 01:16:59.220 --> 01:17:02.859 hiring people with absolutely no fire experience 01:17:02.859 --> 01:17:06.159 over other people that had put in years, put 01:17:06.159 --> 01:17:09.199 in the time. And, you know, these people are 01:17:09.199 --> 01:17:12.300 not, it's, I don't know, maybe it's DEI or whatever, 01:17:12.479 --> 01:17:15.420 but it's, it definitely is. It's wanting to fill 01:17:15.420 --> 01:17:18.220 a quota, whether it's female or, you know, minority 01:17:18.220 --> 01:17:25.800 or whatever it is. And it's, I think, you know, 01:17:25.819 --> 01:17:28.840 you've got people that have sacrificed for years, 01:17:29.020 --> 01:17:34.840 young people, to get this job. And you're not 01:17:34.840 --> 01:17:40.279 taking that into account. I don't know about 01:17:40.279 --> 01:17:45.039 how hard it is to get in. I don't really remember 01:17:45.039 --> 01:17:48.840 all that. I know I tried a few times, but I really 01:17:48.840 --> 01:17:51.060 tried with LA City. That was the only place I 01:17:51.060 --> 01:17:55.020 really put 100 % in. And I got lucky, I guess. 01:17:55.699 --> 01:17:58.340 Maybe they needed the old guy. you know i was 01:17:58.340 --> 01:18:00.659 definitely you you were a you know affirmative 01:18:00.659 --> 01:18:03.859 action exactly i might have been part of it so 01:18:03.859 --> 01:18:06.680 um you know i don't know maybe i'm shooting myself 01:18:06.680 --> 01:18:12.859 in the foot but um uh yeah so i i don't know 01:18:12.859 --> 01:18:14.739 i don't know about the hiring and all that i 01:18:14.739 --> 01:18:20.640 i uh it's a great job but it's it we need to 01:18:20.640 --> 01:18:23.539 fix some things for sure how we treat each other 01:18:23.539 --> 01:18:28.520 and How we look at our own emotional and mental 01:18:28.520 --> 01:18:32.579 health and that being at least as important as 01:18:32.579 --> 01:18:36.180 our physical, all of it needs to be in balance. 01:18:36.380 --> 01:18:43.399 So, yeah, that's a tough job. It should be tough, 01:18:43.500 --> 01:18:47.359 but it doesn't, shouldn't be designed to kill 01:18:47.359 --> 01:18:52.239 you. And both this culture, the schedule, there 01:18:52.239 --> 01:18:57.560 are many factors that... make it a killer job. 01:18:57.739 --> 01:19:03.119 If you don't have the strength, the personal 01:19:03.119 --> 01:19:05.380 strength to balance your life, balance your mental 01:19:05.380 --> 01:19:08.140 health and your physical and all that stuff, 01:19:08.520 --> 01:19:14.779 then it's going to go bad for you. And most of 01:19:14.779 --> 01:19:17.800 us don't, at least historically. So this is a 01:19:17.800 --> 01:19:23.210 really great time to bring awareness. Just to 01:19:23.210 --> 01:19:27.409 acknowledge that this is what reality is in the 01:19:27.409 --> 01:19:33.609 life of a first responder. Absolutely. Just quickly 01:19:33.609 --> 01:19:38.270 with the diversity hire, it's so crazy because 01:19:38.270 --> 01:19:41.010 the solution is so easy. I mean, acknowledging 01:19:41.010 --> 01:19:43.810 that absolutely there are lots of fire departments 01:19:43.810 --> 01:19:45.829 that at a certain time were not hiring people 01:19:45.829 --> 01:19:47.649 of certain backgrounds or genders or whatever 01:19:47.649 --> 01:19:50.699 it is. I've said this many times, like we all 01:19:50.699 --> 01:19:53.500 know when we're in bunker gear in a structure 01:19:53.500 --> 01:19:56.699 fire, there's only one prejudice. You can see 01:19:56.699 --> 01:19:59.520 if someone can or they can't. That's it. You 01:19:59.520 --> 01:20:03.119 don't know what color. Yellow. Exactly. Exactly. 01:20:03.220 --> 01:20:06.600 So with that being said, acknowledging that there 01:20:06.600 --> 01:20:09.199 are absolutely areas that are underserved when 01:20:09.199 --> 01:20:12.319 it comes to their ability to know about and become 01:20:12.319 --> 01:20:15.640 a firefighter. The mentorship programs, like 01:20:15.640 --> 01:20:17.399 one of my friends, Chris Hickman, started here 01:20:17.399 --> 01:20:22.310 in Ocala. is the solution. You create this training, 01:20:22.409 --> 01:20:25.590 you put it in these areas where there isn't usually 01:20:25.590 --> 01:20:28.109 the access to that kind of thing. You invite 01:20:28.109 --> 01:20:30.869 and empower people of all backgrounds to come 01:20:30.869 --> 01:20:33.729 participate. And three things will happen. You 01:20:33.729 --> 01:20:36.550 know, they'll go, oh, yeah, I definitely don't 01:20:36.550 --> 01:20:38.270 want to do that now. Now I've learned how hard 01:20:38.270 --> 01:20:41.449 it is. Or I'm not sure. I think I want to do 01:20:41.449 --> 01:20:43.130 it, but I certainly need to prepare more. So 01:20:43.130 --> 01:20:45.729 I'm going to keep doing the work or this is the 01:20:45.729 --> 01:20:47.810 thing I've been looking for my whole life. And 01:20:47.810 --> 01:20:50.310 so now of those groups that are underserved, 01:20:50.350 --> 01:20:52.630 you find the ones that are supposed to be good 01:20:52.630 --> 01:20:55.729 firefighters, not. go out and get me 20 black 01:20:55.729 --> 01:20:57.850 guys and three lesbians because that's what we 01:20:57.850 --> 01:21:00.529 need. So this is, I think there's such an easy 01:21:00.529 --> 01:21:02.930 solution. Acknowledge where you're failing in 01:21:02.930 --> 01:21:04.710 the groups of the communities that you're not 01:21:04.710 --> 01:21:07.109 accessing because it's expensive to go to fire 01:21:07.109 --> 01:21:09.609 academy. It's expensive to go to paramedic school 01:21:09.609 --> 01:21:12.310 and not everyone can. Make that happen. So you 01:21:12.310 --> 01:21:15.310 give them, you know, the zero barrier to access 01:21:15.310 --> 01:21:17.369 to this mentor programs. You have scholarships 01:21:17.369 --> 01:21:19.689 for fire academies and medic schools, et cetera, 01:21:19.770 --> 01:21:21.949 et cetera. And then, you know, you have employment 01:21:21.949 --> 01:21:23.729 opportunities that people have gone through the 01:21:23.729 --> 01:21:26.390 pipeline. And now you've found the best people 01:21:26.390 --> 01:21:28.170 of those other communities that are going to 01:21:28.170 --> 01:21:30.869 become incredible firefighters and paramedics. 01:21:30.930 --> 01:21:34.890 That is so key because it's making the access. 01:21:34.989 --> 01:21:39.100 I mean, you go to an inner city school. and you 01:21:39.100 --> 01:21:43.279 come in there and go hey we want you to dig and 01:21:43.279 --> 01:21:46.920 talk about the job that maybe they don't even 01:21:46.920 --> 01:21:51.279 know it's an option for them you know so it's 01:21:51.279 --> 01:21:53.819 a great idea to get to get out to the people 01:21:53.819 --> 01:21:57.140 do outreach in the places where we need to be 01:21:57.140 --> 01:22:01.380 i mean everyone it really is a job where or any 01:22:01.380 --> 01:22:04.020 of it is it's what who's you have certain skills 01:22:04.020 --> 01:22:05.939 for this job that's going to make you good at 01:22:05.939 --> 01:22:09.449 it something you're motivated to do, then that's 01:22:09.449 --> 01:22:11.689 the person you want in that job. It doesn't matter 01:22:11.689 --> 01:22:16.649 the culture, nothing else really matters. It 01:22:16.649 --> 01:22:20.409 matters their ability and their give a shit level. 01:22:21.590 --> 01:22:25.390 And I think you're right. A lot of people, a 01:22:25.390 --> 01:22:27.270 lot of kids just don't even know that they have 01:22:27.270 --> 01:22:30.630 the option or where to start. So a great way 01:22:30.630 --> 01:22:34.710 to start getting a full spectrum of humanity. 01:22:35.630 --> 01:22:41.270 in the department 100 well reflecting back on 01:22:41.270 --> 01:22:44.289 your career what are some of the you know what 01:22:44.289 --> 01:22:46.430 we would call career calls whether it was a big 01:22:46.430 --> 01:22:48.329 event or whether it was just simply a moment 01:22:48.329 --> 01:22:50.550 of you know kindness and compassion that stuck 01:22:50.550 --> 01:22:57.029 with you well i'll never forget um about 3 34 01:22:57.029 --> 01:22:59.770 in the morning we just got our asses kicked all 01:22:59.770 --> 01:23:01.829 day and i think i'd worked the day before but 01:23:03.180 --> 01:23:05.699 My partner and I, we're in the ambulance. We 01:23:05.699 --> 01:23:11.420 get called. It's a sick lady. And we go up there. 01:23:11.560 --> 01:23:14.579 Little old lady. She's like 89 or something. 01:23:14.920 --> 01:23:19.560 And I check her all out and she's fine. There's 01:23:19.560 --> 01:23:21.859 nothing wrong with her. I tell her, hey, there's 01:23:21.859 --> 01:23:24.000 nothing wrong. I'm not going to suggest you go 01:23:24.000 --> 01:23:25.779 to the hospital because there's nothing wrong 01:23:25.779 --> 01:23:31.140 with you. But I knew there was something. I couldn't 01:23:31.140 --> 01:23:33.710 just leave. My partner was getting frustrated. 01:23:33.909 --> 01:23:36.569 He was like, dude, just go down and take the 01:23:36.569 --> 01:23:39.109 stuff down. I got this. I'll be down in a minute. 01:23:40.390 --> 01:23:43.989 And I ended up making her a pot of tea. And we 01:23:43.989 --> 01:23:47.970 sat there and we talked. And she'd lost her whole 01:23:47.970 --> 01:23:50.850 family. I mean, everyone she loved was dead. 01:23:51.189 --> 01:23:53.970 Her kids and stuff, they never talked to her 01:23:53.970 --> 01:23:57.090 anymore. And she was just lonely, you know. And 01:23:57.090 --> 01:24:00.590 I spent about a half an hour with her. And afterwards. 01:24:01.739 --> 01:24:07.500 I just gave her a big hug, and I feel like I 01:24:07.500 --> 01:24:13.600 made a difference that night. And then there's 01:24:13.600 --> 01:24:18.460 the chats where a train crashed, 25 dead, in 01:24:18.460 --> 01:24:21.920 the middle of a car that's turned over with bodies 01:24:21.920 --> 01:24:26.279 and body parts just squished into place and squished 01:24:26.279 --> 01:24:35.510 together, and that was pretty surreal. I got 01:24:35.510 --> 01:24:40.010 this opportunity to go to Oaxaca. This guy that 01:24:40.010 --> 01:24:43.090 started the coaching company that helped me get 01:24:43.090 --> 01:24:45.909 the TEDx talk, he goes and builds houses for 01:24:45.909 --> 01:24:49.390 impoverished people around the world. And I got 01:24:49.390 --> 01:24:51.989 this email saying, do you want to be a volunteer 01:24:51.989 --> 01:24:54.489 and go to Oaxaca and do this? And it wasn't a 01:24:54.489 --> 01:24:56.810 decision that I made consciously. It was like, 01:24:56.829 --> 01:25:01.130 yeah, go. And I didn't know why. connection that 01:25:01.130 --> 01:25:03.829 i have or even why i know about oaxaca is that 01:25:03.829 --> 01:25:07.869 when i was a paramedic down here in oxnard we 01:25:07.869 --> 01:25:11.090 went to this this little shack on the north side 01:25:11.090 --> 01:25:13.949 of the freeway outskirts of oxnard in the fields 01:25:13.949 --> 01:25:18.390 and it was always there was always an 11 or 12 01:25:18.390 --> 01:25:23.810 year old female in active labor and they were 01:25:23.810 --> 01:25:26.369 from oaxaca they didn't speak any english and 01:25:26.369 --> 01:25:29.340 no spanish there was this old lady there not 01:25:29.340 --> 01:25:32.979 old but you know like mean looking woman who 01:25:32.979 --> 01:25:38.100 spoke spanish and she would translate but i'd 01:25:38.100 --> 01:25:41.880 never um you know it felt wrong we're talking 01:25:41.880 --> 01:25:44.140 11 and 12 year old girls one of them had twins 01:25:44.140 --> 01:25:46.340 so i delivered four babies out of this place 01:25:46.340 --> 01:25:51.539 and um and i it just seemed wrong but we didn't 01:25:51.539 --> 01:25:54.359 i didn't really have a term of sex or sex trafficking 01:25:54.359 --> 01:25:57.159 or that kind of stuff now but i knew that it 01:25:57.159 --> 01:26:00.039 was i was telling myself maybe it was a you know 01:26:00.039 --> 01:26:02.319 a cultural thing from the tribe that they came 01:26:02.319 --> 01:26:04.880 from that you know but there was nothing joyful 01:26:04.880 --> 01:26:08.300 about this it was clearly it was that so that's 01:26:08.300 --> 01:26:13.279 stuck with me and when that that uh call came 01:26:13.279 --> 01:26:16.859 in uh like yeah i gotta go somehow kind of bring 01:26:16.859 --> 01:26:19.939 it full circle not something that i that really 01:26:19.939 --> 01:26:23.579 bothers me or that i it sticks with me like oh 01:26:23.579 --> 01:26:28.529 but uh it just It was one of those things where 01:26:28.529 --> 01:26:32.590 it's so odd, so different, and so kind of wrong 01:26:32.590 --> 01:26:36.649 that it'll always have a memory. So it's kind 01:26:36.649 --> 01:26:39.930 of cool to maybe come full circle. I don't even 01:26:39.930 --> 01:26:42.829 know. I just don't know. He's guiding this thing. 01:26:44.210 --> 01:26:49.729 So educate me. The Oaxaca, where are they from? 01:26:49.789 --> 01:26:51.569 Which part of the world and which background? 01:26:51.930 --> 01:26:57.630 So Oaxaca is... it's near mexico city it's it's 01:26:57.630 --> 01:27:02.069 actually a big area of mexico but oaxaca itself 01:27:02.069 --> 01:27:05.250 i think is a little town and there's a heavy 01:27:05.250 --> 01:27:09.529 aztec influence there um and so you still have 01:27:09.529 --> 01:27:12.510 these tribes that are not they don't speak spanish 01:27:12.510 --> 01:27:17.010 you know they're they're from they're not mexican 01:27:17.010 --> 01:27:21.130 they're not like they're original indigenous 01:27:22.029 --> 01:27:24.909 people to Mexico or tribes and things like that. 01:27:25.010 --> 01:27:31.729 Um, and so that's where it is. Um, and I, like 01:27:31.729 --> 01:27:34.390 I said, I don't, it doesn't even make sense for 01:27:34.390 --> 01:27:37.649 me to go there right now, but I had to raise 01:27:37.649 --> 01:27:40.810 $3 ,000. That pays for half the materials for 01:27:40.810 --> 01:27:44.329 one house. Got 40 volunteers building 20 houses 01:27:44.329 --> 01:27:51.039 in two days. And, uh, um, I just. I know there's 01:27:51.039 --> 01:27:54.119 a reason I'm going. I don't know why, but it's 01:27:54.119 --> 01:27:58.600 brought that call up heavy in my mind or those 01:27:58.600 --> 01:28:03.300 calls that experience there. So a lot of us know 01:28:03.300 --> 01:28:06.779 that when we are invested in this incredible 01:28:06.779 --> 01:28:09.260 calling, so we have this identity, you have this 01:28:09.260 --> 01:28:11.060 tribe, you have this purpose, even though we 01:28:11.060 --> 01:28:12.680 talked about, you know, what was the purpose 01:28:12.680 --> 01:28:15.500 really, as far as, you know, fire EMS, et cetera, 01:28:15.500 --> 01:28:17.859 you still have this reason that you put the uniform 01:28:17.859 --> 01:28:21.550 on and go and help everyone. What was it or what 01:28:21.550 --> 01:28:23.789 were the compounding elements that made you decide 01:28:23.789 --> 01:28:28.890 to transition out? Well, there's definitely a 01:28:28.890 --> 01:28:38.449 thing that happened. My first station out of 01:28:38.449 --> 01:28:41.550 probation was an engine house, but it was so 01:28:41.550 --> 01:28:44.710 busy. As a paramedic, I was never able to get 01:28:44.710 --> 01:28:46.970 certified on the engine to spend the time to 01:28:46.970 --> 01:28:51.199 do that. to act on my, but I really wanted to 01:28:51.199 --> 01:28:54.260 be, to get into USAR. It was just, I really wanted 01:28:54.260 --> 01:28:58.220 to be there. And so I put in a transfer request 01:28:58.220 --> 01:29:02.659 to USAR station and the captain was like, no, 01:29:02.779 --> 01:29:05.239 you know, you should get certified, do this stuff 01:29:05.239 --> 01:29:09.180 first. And I didn't listen to him. I just went. 01:29:09.340 --> 01:29:14.899 And so now I'm at a task force house. pretty 01:29:14.899 --> 01:29:17.140 much straight off probation. And it's a USAR 01:29:17.140 --> 01:29:21.579 task force house. So you got that specialty on 01:29:21.579 --> 01:29:24.500 top of now having the truck and the full run, 01:29:24.520 --> 01:29:30.060 all the engines and stuff there. And it's just 01:29:30.060 --> 01:29:34.140 that, that mentality. It just, nobody talks to 01:29:34.140 --> 01:29:36.979 you. It's always negative, always putting you 01:29:36.979 --> 01:29:40.029 down. i just kind of i've spent three and a half 01:29:40.029 --> 01:29:41.789 years there worked hard and everything but i 01:29:41.789 --> 01:29:43.430 was just like you know this is not the place 01:29:43.430 --> 01:29:46.189 for me um let me just go where somewhere else 01:29:46.189 --> 01:29:49.289 anywhere else i went to another task force house 01:29:49.289 --> 01:29:53.930 and um everything went well for the first six 01:29:53.930 --> 01:29:57.529 months a year um then the captains changed and 01:29:57.529 --> 01:30:01.149 this crew was older they were kind of my age 01:30:01.149 --> 01:30:03.430 but they had 30 years on where i had four or 01:30:03.430 --> 01:30:08.289 five and um it just started getting uncomfortable 01:30:08.289 --> 01:30:12.789 and one day uh so we got a new captain in there 01:30:12.789 --> 01:30:14.829 this guy that was they loved and they wanted 01:30:14.829 --> 01:30:18.109 him in and yada yada and uh so he gets there 01:30:18.109 --> 01:30:21.050 he doesn't say a word to me for the first several 01:30:21.050 --> 01:30:25.689 weeks that he's there um and I you know he would 01:30:25.689 --> 01:30:28.430 take the rookie out and teach him about LA and 01:30:28.430 --> 01:30:30.850 I'd follow him out and you know always trying 01:30:30.850 --> 01:30:33.149 to learn what I could and always working hard 01:30:33.149 --> 01:30:36.640 and one day And after dinner, he says, hey, let's 01:30:36.640 --> 01:30:38.520 go out in the patio and have a cup of coffee. 01:30:39.060 --> 01:30:42.720 I'm like, great. He's going to, like, actually 01:30:42.720 --> 01:30:46.420 get to know me, you know, spend some time. And 01:30:46.420 --> 01:30:48.300 so we sit down and he goes, well, how do you 01:30:48.300 --> 01:30:50.439 think it's going for you, Morgan? I said, it's 01:30:50.439 --> 01:30:53.020 good. I'm working. I'm training hard. I'm working 01:30:53.020 --> 01:30:55.140 hard. He goes, yeah, yeah. We can all see how 01:30:55.140 --> 01:30:58.439 hard you work. But the reality is you just don't 01:30:58.439 --> 01:31:01.500 fit in here. And one of us is leaving and it's 01:31:01.500 --> 01:31:04.460 not going to be me. I said, okay, well, thank 01:31:04.460 --> 01:31:08.960 you for telling me. You know, I'll find another 01:31:08.960 --> 01:31:14.220 place. And the problem was we had staffing shortages, 01:31:14.239 --> 01:31:16.239 and the only places that were open was Skid Row 01:31:16.239 --> 01:31:20.420 and MacArthur Park. And I was raising two kids 01:31:20.420 --> 01:31:24.819 by myself. I really needed to be closer to home. 01:31:25.779 --> 01:31:30.859 And so I didn't want to go back downtown. I'd 01:31:30.859 --> 01:31:33.340 done my time down there. Really didn't want to 01:31:33.340 --> 01:31:35.220 do that, but I was applying to every other station. 01:31:35.819 --> 01:31:38.800 No movement, no movement. Well, the screws started 01:31:38.800 --> 01:31:40.979 getting turning harder and harder, just making 01:31:40.979 --> 01:31:43.699 it uncomfortable. You know, little ticky -tack 01:31:43.699 --> 01:31:47.680 things. Go drills designed to completely humiliate 01:31:47.680 --> 01:31:51.439 me just because it was way above my head. You 01:31:51.439 --> 01:31:53.359 know, where I'm acting on the engine is something 01:31:53.359 --> 01:31:56.399 that I've never even trained on. Like lay one, 01:31:56.439 --> 01:32:02.579 drag one, something like that. You know, just 01:32:02.579 --> 01:32:05.359 kept pushing through, kept pushing through, and 01:32:05.359 --> 01:32:08.420 then started getting called in the office every 01:32:08.420 --> 01:32:12.439 night for just ticky -tack bullshit. I literally 01:32:12.439 --> 01:32:15.600 said, are you fucking kidding me? You're having 01:32:15.600 --> 01:32:19.479 me in here for this? It's just so stupid. And 01:32:19.479 --> 01:32:22.180 then it keeps going on, and it's just more and 01:32:22.180 --> 01:32:25.100 more uncomfortable. And then one night, I get 01:32:25.100 --> 01:32:27.300 called in the front office, and I hadn't been 01:32:27.300 --> 01:32:33.039 called in in a few weeks. Shit. My roommate needs 01:32:33.039 --> 01:32:35.300 me to pick him up from the surgery, but whatever. 01:32:37.800 --> 01:32:40.520 So I'm thinking, well, maybe they're going to 01:32:40.520 --> 01:32:42.680 ask me to stay because it's been going pretty 01:32:42.680 --> 01:32:47.260 well. And well, I come into the front office 01:32:47.260 --> 01:32:53.000 and what I see is a dark room. It had little, 01:32:53.140 --> 01:32:54.920 you know, it's got those panels in the ceiling, 01:32:54.979 --> 01:32:56.619 those white kind of panels and there's little 01:32:56.619 --> 01:32:59.220 lights. little lights that shine straight down 01:32:59.220 --> 01:33:01.939 they're all turned off all the lights are off 01:33:01.939 --> 01:33:04.619 except for one light that's shining down on a 01:33:04.619 --> 01:33:07.039 chair in the middle of the room and it's facing 01:33:07.039 --> 01:33:12.619 the two captain's desks and cap says sit down 01:33:12.619 --> 01:33:14.800 we're going to talk you're going to listen and 01:33:14.800 --> 01:33:18.420 i'm like what did i do i'm just going through 01:33:18.420 --> 01:33:21.579 this is gnarly this is serious this is i don't 01:33:21.579 --> 01:33:24.659 know what's happening but this is dire situation 01:33:25.710 --> 01:33:29.329 And he starts talking about a nurse or a hospital 01:33:29.329 --> 01:33:33.029 and this. I can't really figure out what he's 01:33:33.029 --> 01:33:36.250 saying. He's not being clear or really telling 01:33:36.250 --> 01:33:39.189 me what happened. But what I'm starting to realize 01:33:39.189 --> 01:33:42.090 is that he's accusing me of some form of sexual 01:33:42.090 --> 01:33:46.710 harassment. And I'm looking back. I'm like, okay, 01:33:46.750 --> 01:33:49.789 well, I know that. I don't have anything to worry 01:33:49.789 --> 01:33:54.619 about there. And I realized that. He was willing 01:33:54.619 --> 01:33:57.340 to accuse me of this and set up this whole thing. 01:33:58.079 --> 01:34:02.779 I was that hated that they wanted me out. That 01:34:02.779 --> 01:34:08.239 he was willing to do that. So he's finally, he 01:34:08.239 --> 01:34:10.720 finally, I heard him say, I'm realizing in his 01:34:10.720 --> 01:34:12.659 mind, I hear him say, I'm sure you know what 01:34:12.659 --> 01:34:15.720 I'm talking about. I go, Cap, I don't have a 01:34:15.720 --> 01:34:19.079 fucking clue what you're talking about. He sits 01:34:19.079 --> 01:34:21.380 back in his chair, his eyes go wide. He's like, 01:34:21.439 --> 01:34:26.340 he thought he had me cold. and he's sputtering 01:34:26.340 --> 01:34:30.960 you know like a dying engine and well um um well 01:34:30.960 --> 01:34:33.260 let's change gears let's talk about uh i know 01:34:33.260 --> 01:34:35.300 you're trying to transfer out i said well yeah 01:34:35.300 --> 01:34:38.739 nines and elevens open well put in brownies i'm 01:34:38.739 --> 01:34:41.340 sure i'll get one of those are we done here he's 01:34:41.340 --> 01:34:43.920 like uh yeah yeah so i put in a transfer request 01:34:43.920 --> 01:34:47.939 to both those stations dropped him on his desk 01:34:47.939 --> 01:34:53.260 and then um later that night or later that show 01:34:53.260 --> 01:34:55.300 that was about eight o 'clock at night it's about 01:34:55.300 --> 01:34:57.460 4 30 in the morning we get a structure fire call 01:34:57.460 --> 01:35:03.319 and i'm tillering on the truck and we go we go 01:35:03.319 --> 01:35:06.039 and we got a mini mansion going like a the second 01:35:06.039 --> 01:35:09.960 story's going like a bomb and uh we've got fire 01:35:09.960 --> 01:35:13.579 blowing out the windows like heavy it's spanish 01:35:13.579 --> 01:35:16.439 tile roof so the ricky and i throw the 35 we 01:35:16.439 --> 01:35:20.819 go i'm leading off the aerial I've got the roof 01:35:20.819 --> 01:35:24.819 kit in my hand, and I'm aware that this is no 01:35:24.819 --> 01:35:27.899 joke. Like, if I go in this, I ain't coming. 01:35:27.960 --> 01:35:30.180 Nobody's coming out of this. And it's Spanish 01:35:30.180 --> 01:35:33.579 tile roof. It's a Spanish tile roof, so I can't 01:35:33.579 --> 01:35:37.380 sound it. So I'm out about 10, 15 feet, and I 01:35:37.380 --> 01:35:40.659 feel this just like almost a punch from behind, 01:35:40.739 --> 01:35:47.520 like a psychic punch of going. Like, it was so 01:35:47.520 --> 01:35:52.180 evil. And I can't just, I don't know. I'm just 01:35:52.180 --> 01:35:57.199 telling you what happened. And I felt it from 01:35:57.199 --> 01:36:00.239 behind and it looked back behind me. And I see 01:36:00.239 --> 01:36:02.720 the guy that drives the truck who had just been 01:36:02.720 --> 01:36:05.939 one of the biggest assholes in the department. 01:36:05.979 --> 01:36:09.880 But specifically with me, he had a problem. And 01:36:09.880 --> 01:36:14.760 the look on his face, it was the look of what 01:36:14.760 --> 01:36:18.380 I felt. I felt it. And it was like. I hope you, 01:36:18.439 --> 01:36:22.300 I hope this roof opens up and swallows you. And 01:36:22.300 --> 01:36:30.739 I think without a doubt that whole experience 01:36:30.739 --> 01:36:34.180 that I just described to you was, that's when 01:36:34.180 --> 01:36:38.060 I broke. That's when, you know, if my captain 01:36:38.060 --> 01:36:39.899 had told me to jump off this roof, I would have 01:36:39.899 --> 01:36:44.199 just, you know, go. Not really, but you know 01:36:44.199 --> 01:36:52.130 what I'm saying? It's like, This, to me, and 01:36:52.130 --> 01:36:55.050 I don't want to sound like a baby, but I feel 01:36:55.050 --> 01:36:58.729 like they should be protecting you, training 01:36:58.729 --> 01:37:07.829 you. Again, I just felt I didn't care anymore. 01:37:08.029 --> 01:37:15.270 I didn't have any more motivation. I don't know 01:37:15.270 --> 01:37:18.550 really how to describe it, but I just, everything 01:37:18.550 --> 01:37:24.670 was gone. All my, it was just gone. And I ended 01:37:24.670 --> 01:37:27.630 up working. So I went downtown and worked three 01:37:27.630 --> 01:37:36.770 years down there. And then I just kind of existed. 01:37:36.770 --> 01:37:40.090 I ended up getting back into a USAR house. And 01:37:40.090 --> 01:37:45.060 when I came to that house, So I worked downtown 01:37:45.060 --> 01:37:48.800 and I wanted to get back into a station I wanted 01:37:48.800 --> 01:37:52.300 to be in with the USAR. And so I put in a request 01:37:52.300 --> 01:37:54.539 for this one station and I didn't get it. I got 01:37:54.539 --> 01:37:57.760 somebody else. And then one of the firemen that 01:37:57.760 --> 01:37:59.100 I was working with was like, hey, you got more 01:37:59.100 --> 01:38:01.939 time than him. You deserve that spot. So I called 01:38:01.939 --> 01:38:03.899 in and I asked about it. It turns out that they 01:38:03.899 --> 01:38:07.140 had something screwed up in the computer. And 01:38:07.140 --> 01:38:09.699 yes, I had the time and I got the spot. So I 01:38:09.699 --> 01:38:12.229 show up. to get my key, you know, meet all the 01:38:12.229 --> 01:38:14.770 guys, sit down for dinner, and then we go into 01:38:14.770 --> 01:38:19.149 the captain's office, and he's going to, you 01:38:19.149 --> 01:38:20.649 know, usually tell you this is how I run the 01:38:20.649 --> 01:38:22.630 station, this is what I expect, you know, doors 01:38:22.630 --> 01:38:24.869 always open, I'm a firefighter's captain, blah, 01:38:24.930 --> 01:38:27.989 blah, blah, blah, blah. But he says, we sit down, 01:38:28.010 --> 01:38:31.329 he says, so, you know, usually guys call ahead 01:38:31.329 --> 01:38:33.409 and see if we have somebody else in mind, and 01:38:33.409 --> 01:38:36.409 we had somebody else we wanted here, basically 01:38:36.409 --> 01:38:41.340 saying, you know, we didn't want you here. He 01:38:41.340 --> 01:38:46.739 doesn't even know me. So I said, well, Cap, I 01:38:46.739 --> 01:38:49.899 have to be here for at least one segment. That's 01:38:49.899 --> 01:38:53.060 three shifts. So all I'd ask is that you keep 01:38:53.060 --> 01:38:57.500 an open mind. I'll work hard and we'll come back 01:38:57.500 --> 01:39:00.579 after this. And, you know, if you still feel 01:39:00.579 --> 01:39:02.840 the same way, then I'm happy to transfer out. 01:39:03.460 --> 01:39:07.239 So we get a boom and structure fire, big. you 01:39:07.239 --> 01:39:09.600 know first shift kick ass you know everything 01:39:09.600 --> 01:39:12.119 goes really great third shift to make a good 01:39:12.119 --> 01:39:15.800 dinner everyone loves it we go into the front 01:39:15.800 --> 01:39:21.460 office um to you know he says well what do you 01:39:21.460 --> 01:39:23.819 think i said i love it i really would like to 01:39:23.819 --> 01:39:26.619 be here he goes well we'd love to have you it's 01:39:26.619 --> 01:39:32.560 like awesome so all good right except that every 01:39:32.560 --> 01:39:36.380 time we go on a medical call or something He 01:39:36.380 --> 01:39:38.979 would, you know, you look back at building, he 01:39:38.979 --> 01:39:40.619 goes, okay, we got a fire in the back corner, 01:39:40.720 --> 01:39:42.779 second story. Where are you going to ladder? 01:39:42.960 --> 01:39:44.779 What's your hose lay? Right. We do a fire scenario. 01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:47.960 He would turn his back to me and he'd do the 01:39:47.960 --> 01:39:50.659 fire scenario with the two other firefighters. 01:39:51.760 --> 01:39:54.500 And he did this over and over and over, just 01:39:54.500 --> 01:39:58.159 things like that, that were just little, little 01:39:58.159 --> 01:40:02.380 ways to. like he'd say, yeah, you're doing great. 01:40:02.520 --> 01:40:04.460 And then he'd just cut me out and just these, 01:40:04.500 --> 01:40:07.880 all these little ways of, of diminishing you. 01:40:08.539 --> 01:40:10.960 And I don't know why I don't, I never knew this 01:40:10.960 --> 01:40:14.119 guy before. And if you got a problem, fucking 01:40:14.119 --> 01:40:17.079 tell me, you know, don't act like a little bitch. 01:40:17.840 --> 01:40:20.979 And, and, you know, like you're in high school. 01:40:23.399 --> 01:40:28.300 It's, um, so I, uh, I ended up getting like, 01:40:28.829 --> 01:40:32.229 The hernia at work, found out I had two, possibly 01:40:32.229 --> 01:40:35.930 three. So I was off duty recovering from a double 01:40:35.930 --> 01:40:40.250 hernia operation. And I called my mom. I was 01:40:40.250 --> 01:40:42.029 going to say, I need to break up with my girlfriend. 01:40:42.189 --> 01:40:45.689 And what came out of my mouth was, I got to quit 01:40:45.689 --> 01:40:49.890 this job. She goes, why don't you then? What? 01:40:50.590 --> 01:40:56.109 You don't quit the fire? I started thinking about 01:40:56.109 --> 01:40:59.060 what that would look like. By the time I got 01:40:59.060 --> 01:41:04.220 back to work, I had this huge smile on my face, 01:41:04.319 --> 01:41:05.800 and finally the captains called me, and they 01:41:05.800 --> 01:41:09.600 go, what's going on? What are you smiling about? 01:41:09.659 --> 01:41:14.520 I go, well, I'm leaving. I'm done. And so I just 01:41:14.520 --> 01:41:19.439 said, let's pick a date, and that'll be my last 01:41:19.439 --> 01:41:25.260 day. And six months later, I walked out of the 01:41:25.260 --> 01:41:30.779 fire station. No pension, nothing, just I knew 01:41:30.779 --> 01:41:33.960 that I wasn't going to be long for this world 01:41:33.960 --> 01:41:38.039 if I stayed. So for me, when I say the moral 01:41:38.039 --> 01:41:41.060 injury, it's just so much of that type of thing, 01:41:41.100 --> 01:41:43.819 especially from the captains. The captains dictate 01:41:43.819 --> 01:41:47.439 how everybody treats everybody. You get a rookie 01:41:47.439 --> 01:41:51.439 that was a framer or something, the captain's 01:41:51.439 --> 01:41:54.189 going to be kissing his ass the whole time. some 01:41:54.189 --> 01:41:57.029 guy that or girl that's a was a store manager 01:41:57.029 --> 01:42:01.609 or something other than blue collar electrician 01:42:01.609 --> 01:42:07.270 plumber mechanic um you're gonna get hammered 01:42:07.270 --> 01:42:10.689 so and having been an actor i don't think that 01:42:10.689 --> 01:42:14.909 helped me at all you know i had a real to overcome 01:42:14.909 --> 01:42:19.109 that everywhere i went was um tough and not only 01:42:19.109 --> 01:42:21.649 an actor but my mother was an actor so you know 01:42:21.649 --> 01:42:24.899 you can imagine what everybody thought of me 01:42:24.899 --> 01:42:31.239 or many people assumed so i'm not i'm not you 01:42:31.239 --> 01:42:32.920 know i don't know how much that has to do with 01:42:32.920 --> 01:42:41.239 it but um it was the it was by far the stuff 01:42:41.239 --> 01:42:45.420 that i saw with the captains specifically um 01:42:45.420 --> 01:42:50.039 but just overall the way that we treat each other 01:42:50.039 --> 01:42:53.489 is not I just don't want to be in that environment. 01:42:53.789 --> 01:42:57.930 I did as much as I could do, and I really want 01:42:57.930 --> 01:43:02.670 to have joy and peace, and I want to help people 01:43:02.670 --> 01:43:08.810 still. But I think, honestly, looking back, that 01:43:08.810 --> 01:43:13.170 I went through that experience, and it was a 01:43:13.170 --> 01:43:19.430 particularly difficult career so that I could. 01:43:20.199 --> 01:43:26.199 come out and make changes or offer changes that 01:43:26.199 --> 01:43:32.420 will literally save people's lives. Okay, I have 01:43:32.420 --> 01:43:36.220 not told anybody some of the stuff that I just 01:43:36.220 --> 01:43:45.039 told you. Like, I did a podcast with this former 01:43:45.039 --> 01:43:48.909 cop. And afterwards, it was before I did my second 01:43:48.909 --> 01:43:54.390 TEDx talk. And afterwards, he said, you know, 01:43:54.390 --> 01:43:57.489 I've asked about anything I could have done differently. 01:43:57.550 --> 01:43:59.890 And he said, you know, if you're going to do 01:43:59.890 --> 01:44:01.810 this work, you need to find a way to be able 01:44:01.810 --> 01:44:05.109 to talk about it and really tell your stories 01:44:05.109 --> 01:44:08.050 because that's where the healing happens. That's 01:44:08.050 --> 01:44:11.090 what somebody out there needs to hear your story. 01:44:14.009 --> 01:44:17.829 This is fucking gnarly. I did not expect to be. 01:44:18.390 --> 01:44:20.729 I don't want this to come out as blame or anything. 01:44:20.890 --> 01:44:24.170 I take full responsibility for my experience, 01:44:24.430 --> 01:44:28.369 my actions. There's no blame on anybody. But 01:44:28.369 --> 01:44:33.850 that was some of my experience and why I left. 01:44:35.770 --> 01:44:39.250 It's important to hear. It really is. I get to 01:44:39.250 --> 01:44:41.170 obviously speak to a lot of people and a lot 01:44:41.170 --> 01:44:43.470 of people that are respected around the country 01:44:43.470 --> 01:44:46.229 that go and teach in other departments behind 01:44:46.229 --> 01:44:49.149 the scenes have similar stories, whether it's 01:44:49.149 --> 01:44:53.069 captains, BCs, the fire chief, the union. I mean, 01:44:53.090 --> 01:44:54.930 you know, you name it, there's all these different 01:44:54.930 --> 01:44:58.630 things. And it's, again, I would argue that a 01:44:58.630 --> 01:45:02.470 lot of this is still rooted in trauma, unaddressed 01:45:02.470 --> 01:45:04.909 trauma. And I've said this with the work week 01:45:04.909 --> 01:45:07.789 thing. We have chiefs that work 40 hours a week. 01:45:08.380 --> 01:45:11.920 That sleep soundly in their beds whilst their 01:45:11.920 --> 01:45:14.119 men and women are being forced into mandatory 01:45:14.119 --> 01:45:17.939 after mandatory after mandatory working 80 plus 01:45:17.939 --> 01:45:20.340 hour weeks and not seeing their children. And 01:45:20.340 --> 01:45:24.069 they sleep like a baby. So. that we talk about 01:45:24.069 --> 01:45:26.649 the trauma and the mental health from us boots 01:45:26.649 --> 01:45:28.630 on the ground you know running the calls the 01:45:28.630 --> 01:45:31.310 medics the firefighters but we don't talk about 01:45:31.310 --> 01:45:33.609 really especially as you climb the ranks even 01:45:33.609 --> 01:45:35.310 though you know we do when there's a suicide 01:45:35.310 --> 01:45:37.390 of you know a battalion chief or district chief 01:45:37.390 --> 01:45:40.770 wherever it is but that also affects the day 01:45:40.770 --> 01:45:44.529 -to -day living so don't get me wrong of course 01:45:44.529 --> 01:45:46.489 there are times where the wrong person is wearing 01:45:46.489 --> 01:45:49.489 the uniform and they are not doing the job well 01:45:49.489 --> 01:45:51.289 and you've taken the time to mentor them and 01:45:51.289 --> 01:45:53.729 they're still awful that's not what we're talking 01:45:53.729 --> 01:45:55.670 about we're talking about the person who's really 01:45:55.670 --> 01:45:57.770 no so we're talking about the person who's really 01:45:57.770 --> 01:45:59.890 trying to do a good job but there's a toxic environment 01:45:59.890 --> 01:46:03.010 and i would argue that the more we address the 01:46:03.010 --> 01:46:05.029 mental health conversation the more we address 01:46:05.029 --> 01:46:07.270 the sleep deprivation more we address the the 01:46:07.270 --> 01:46:11.390 unneeded you know unending forced overtime you 01:46:11.390 --> 01:46:13.689 are going to see an improvement in toxic culture 01:46:13.689 --> 01:46:16.890 and the fact that you know in some of these situations 01:46:16.890 --> 01:46:19.930 i I guarantee you if you could climb into the 01:46:19.930 --> 01:46:22.489 head of some of the people that were having these 01:46:22.489 --> 01:46:25.250 problems and creating this toxicity, there's 01:46:25.250 --> 01:46:29.850 probably some pain in there. So the number of 01:46:29.850 --> 01:46:31.890 people that are really trying to do the best 01:46:31.890 --> 01:46:34.029 that they can, I had this the last place I worked 01:46:34.029 --> 01:46:36.729 at, just trying to get the training where it 01:46:36.729 --> 01:46:40.109 needed to be. Trying to address fitness levels, 01:46:40.270 --> 01:46:42.510 trying to address the fact that some people couldn't 01:46:42.510 --> 01:46:44.289 even put their mask on without freaking out. 01:46:44.310 --> 01:46:46.649 These are extremely serious things that need 01:46:46.649 --> 01:46:49.649 to be addressed and kind of vilified for it. 01:46:49.789 --> 01:46:52.090 So I understand it completely. I've been there 01:46:52.090 --> 01:46:56.310 and I get it. And I think that you telling the 01:46:56.310 --> 01:46:58.149 story, I'm sure a lot of people listening are 01:46:58.149 --> 01:46:59.449 going to be nodding their heads. There's going 01:46:59.449 --> 01:47:03.010 to be people in stations that are really passionate 01:47:03.010 --> 01:47:06.680 about the job. the crew the environment they're 01:47:06.680 --> 01:47:08.840 working with is sit down shut up you're making 01:47:08.840 --> 01:47:12.500 us look bad all that kind of um so it is it's 01:47:12.500 --> 01:47:15.460 an important conversation you know that the job 01:47:15.460 --> 01:47:17.840 is an incredible thing you know the fireside 01:47:17.840 --> 01:47:20.100 the ems like we said the swiss army knife skills 01:47:20.100 --> 01:47:24.859 there is no need for an environment to be you 01:47:24.859 --> 01:47:28.090 know toxic when it's not warranted so I think 01:47:28.090 --> 01:47:30.310 it's good that you're coming out and talking 01:47:30.310 --> 01:47:32.149 about this because it's not whining. It's not 01:47:32.149 --> 01:47:34.029 like, oh, firefighting is really hard and I don't 01:47:34.029 --> 01:47:36.189 like carrying stuff and the suit's really hot. 01:47:36.670 --> 01:47:39.590 It's just I'm trying to do the best I can, but 01:47:39.590 --> 01:47:41.550 these personalities, no matter what I do, are 01:47:41.550 --> 01:47:44.869 just smashing me down again. And I think I really 01:47:44.869 --> 01:47:48.310 feel like this is a global mental health conversation. 01:47:48.430 --> 01:47:51.550 The more we all heal at every single rank, the 01:47:51.550 --> 01:47:53.710 less toxic these departments are going to become. 01:47:54.010 --> 01:47:59.369 Yeah. Yeah, I got, I don't want to like give 01:47:59.369 --> 01:48:02.670 away anyone's story or anything, but I had chiefs 01:48:02.670 --> 01:48:05.810 calling me after they had seen my talk or just 01:48:05.810 --> 01:48:09.689 that I was doing a talk and telling me their 01:48:09.689 --> 01:48:12.649 stories about, you know, what they've had to, 01:48:12.670 --> 01:48:14.930 especially during COVID, what they had to ask 01:48:14.930 --> 01:48:17.810 of their members and then watching someone die 01:48:17.810 --> 01:48:21.289 and then forcing them to get the vaccine and, 01:48:21.449 --> 01:48:26.470 you know, stuff like that. What I want to say, 01:48:26.489 --> 01:48:32.529 oh, just on a personal note, every evaluation 01:48:32.529 --> 01:48:36.850 that I ever had was standard or above. Like each 01:48:36.850 --> 01:48:38.949 check was standard, but mostly standard because 01:48:38.949 --> 01:48:40.829 we don't do above. But there were some of that. 01:48:41.489 --> 01:48:46.550 And, you know, I think about this one station 01:48:46.550 --> 01:48:48.229 where they, you know, getting called in, you 01:48:48.229 --> 01:48:51.189 don't fit in here, yada, yada, yada, pointing 01:48:51.189 --> 01:48:54.550 out all my deficiencies and stuff. And yet. My 01:48:54.550 --> 01:48:57.689 evaluation was standard and above every time. 01:48:57.789 --> 01:49:02.909 So it's like, it's not real. You know, why wouldn't 01:49:02.909 --> 01:49:04.670 you had a perfect opportunity? You want to get 01:49:04.670 --> 01:49:06.930 me out or you want to, you want to show what 01:49:06.930 --> 01:49:10.189 a piece of shit I am. Like, give me a bad evaluation. 01:49:12.810 --> 01:49:19.470 So it's, I think there's so much left to. for 01:49:19.470 --> 01:49:21.189 instance, if you want to, and I don't know how 01:49:21.189 --> 01:49:22.869 it is in other departments, but if you want to, 01:49:22.909 --> 01:49:25.409 you're expected to be able to sit in every seat 01:49:25.409 --> 01:49:28.369 in every apparatus in the engine. So in the, 01:49:28.369 --> 01:49:31.430 in the station, so in the engineer seat, in the 01:49:31.430 --> 01:49:33.529 captain's seat, in the truck driver's seat, the 01:49:33.529 --> 01:49:38.949 tiller inside hydrant, you know, all nozzle, 01:49:39.010 --> 01:49:44.789 every single position in every apparatus. But 01:49:44.789 --> 01:49:49.780 what I found is that there's, there is no, standardized 01:49:49.780 --> 01:49:52.899 thing of certification. There's no, you have 01:49:52.899 --> 01:49:54.659 to learn this, this, and this, and then you will 01:49:54.659 --> 01:49:57.399 be certified to work on the engine anywhere in 01:49:57.399 --> 01:50:01.579 the city. It's all about personality. It's what 01:50:01.579 --> 01:50:04.600 the captain decides along with the rated member, 01:50:04.720 --> 01:50:07.800 what they're, what's going to, how you're going 01:50:07.800 --> 01:50:13.180 to get that certification. And so what we were 01:50:13.180 --> 01:50:14.859 just talking about, there's so many ways that 01:50:14.859 --> 01:50:19.760 you could at least give a basic. level of training 01:50:19.760 --> 01:50:22.520 that you have to complete that you can see i 01:50:22.520 --> 01:50:27.239 do this this and this and i get to hear but there 01:50:27.239 --> 01:50:30.640 is not did you did you have that sort of experience 01:50:30.640 --> 01:50:32.100 or i don't know how it was in the departments 01:50:32.100 --> 01:50:34.800 you worked in but yeah no it was it was the opposite 01:50:34.800 --> 01:50:37.079 yeah every you know to write up as an engineer 01:50:37.079 --> 01:50:39.760 you had to do you know hydraulics and all kinds 01:50:39.760 --> 01:50:42.340 of hands -on and right but was it was it deep 01:50:42.340 --> 01:50:44.789 was it was it Did you have a thing that said, 01:50:44.829 --> 01:50:46.729 you do this, you learn this about hydraulics, 01:50:46.729 --> 01:50:48.590 you learn da -da -da -da -da -da, and then you 01:50:48.590 --> 01:50:51.649 get signed off, you're certified to act? Yes, 01:50:51.710 --> 01:50:54.350 we did have that in the places I worked. As far 01:50:54.350 --> 01:50:57.329 as I know, that didn't exist. It was just really 01:50:57.329 --> 01:51:01.449 kind of left to the station commander and the 01:51:01.449 --> 01:51:04.989 radio member to get you through that process. 01:51:05.210 --> 01:51:07.630 And then when you went to a new station, you 01:51:07.630 --> 01:51:09.310 got a whole different district, different water 01:51:09.310 --> 01:51:12.189 systems and all that. So you'd have to obviously... 01:51:12.520 --> 01:51:15.319 you know prove yourself there but but as far 01:51:15.319 --> 01:51:17.779 as i know that there's no basic standardized 01:51:17.779 --> 01:51:21.739 um program or or thing that you do that goes 01:51:21.739 --> 01:51:24.859 from here to here and now you're certified if 01:51:24.859 --> 01:51:27.180 you want to become an engineer then yeah there's 01:51:27.180 --> 01:51:30.380 but if you just want to be get certified and 01:51:30.380 --> 01:51:35.220 meet that expectation of the station it's it's 01:51:35.220 --> 01:51:39.800 not based on anything real it's all you know 01:51:39.800 --> 01:51:42.680 if they want to if they don't they like you they 01:51:42.680 --> 01:51:47.439 don't um and i've seen people get that have been 01:51:47.439 --> 01:51:50.979 working really hard and another person and they're 01:51:50.979 --> 01:51:54.199 clearly able and capable and i would follow them 01:51:54.199 --> 01:51:56.859 up a ladder any day of the week then you got 01:51:56.859 --> 01:51:59.380 somebody else that's lagging and just not quite 01:51:59.380 --> 01:52:02.239 getting it probably never will and the captain's 01:52:02.239 --> 01:52:04.720 saying i'm not going to certify this guy because 01:52:04.720 --> 01:52:10.949 um this guy's not ready and and he it's choice. 01:52:11.069 --> 01:52:13.409 It's a political choice. It's not a choice. It's 01:52:13.409 --> 01:52:15.489 not based on merit. And here we come back to, 01:52:15.550 --> 01:52:24.810 to the, the hiring aspect in. So I think basing 01:52:24.810 --> 01:52:28.090 stuff on merit and having at least a basic standard 01:52:28.090 --> 01:52:32.210 in a lot of these areas would just make it cleaner, 01:52:32.310 --> 01:52:37.170 make it, make you make, make you. You have clear 01:52:37.170 --> 01:52:40.369 expectations that you can clearly define and 01:52:40.369 --> 01:52:43.890 then you can clearly act for that. But I guess 01:52:43.890 --> 01:52:47.149 what I'm I'm saying is that a lot of this culture 01:52:47.149 --> 01:52:51.789 is left up to the captain's personality, captain's 01:52:51.789 --> 01:52:56.529 views. And because it's in such a contained environment, 01:52:56.930 --> 01:52:58.949 you know, it's like Vegas. Nothing leaves the 01:52:58.949 --> 01:53:04.060 station. So. Really, they can create whatever 01:53:04.060 --> 01:53:06.640 environment they want. And if you're in, that's 01:53:06.640 --> 01:53:09.060 great. If you're out, it's very uncomfortable 01:53:09.060 --> 01:53:12.640 in terms of being part of the group, the crew. 01:53:13.100 --> 01:53:15.899 And I've been in and I've been out and I've been 01:53:15.899 --> 01:53:19.760 on the side and I've been in all those positions 01:53:19.760 --> 01:53:23.619 in different times. But what I wouldn't do is 01:53:23.619 --> 01:53:32.560 I wouldn't join in and be in. i wouldn't play 01:53:32.560 --> 01:53:34.979 that game or in fact okay i'll tell you straight 01:53:34.979 --> 01:53:39.199 out story there's one dude who just he's just 01:53:39.199 --> 01:53:42.920 slow he's big strong dude but he just we couldn't 01:53:42.920 --> 01:53:46.960 get him trained up in it and and and the crew 01:53:46.960 --> 01:53:50.159 was just pounding this guy i mean saying stuff 01:53:50.159 --> 01:53:52.399 to him that was like whoa man you better watch 01:53:52.399 --> 01:53:55.359 it because you can get fired or something But, 01:53:55.399 --> 01:53:57.859 um, so it's just, he and I down in the apparatus 01:53:57.859 --> 01:54:00.140 Bay late one night and we're polishing diamond 01:54:00.140 --> 01:54:02.920 plate or doing something. And I start getting, 01:54:03.039 --> 01:54:04.680 I was like, man, you got to defend yourself, 01:54:04.739 --> 01:54:07.579 man. You got to stand up for yourself. And I'm 01:54:07.579 --> 01:54:09.760 almost yelling. I'm getting really kind of emotional 01:54:09.760 --> 01:54:12.479 about it. Let's close on for about a half an 01:54:12.479 --> 01:54:15.199 hour and give him this big pep talk. And I go 01:54:15.199 --> 01:54:17.319 up to the locker room and the whole crew's waiting 01:54:17.319 --> 01:54:21.479 for me. And I sit down in the corner and they're 01:54:21.479 --> 01:54:23.399 all facing me and they're like, hey, we want 01:54:23.399 --> 01:54:25.800 this guy out. You either start hammering like 01:54:25.800 --> 01:54:29.460 we're doing and making this life difficult or, 01:54:29.560 --> 01:54:31.979 you know, you're not part of us. And I said, 01:54:32.140 --> 01:54:35.600 well, or however they put it. And I go, well, 01:54:35.619 --> 01:54:37.819 I'm definitely not in. I'm not in with that. 01:54:38.659 --> 01:54:41.439 And I knew that that was it. That was it for 01:54:41.439 --> 01:54:44.800 me at that station. I had to go. So I did. And 01:54:44.800 --> 01:54:48.260 other stuff started happening after that. where 01:54:48.260 --> 01:54:52.659 it actually got dangerous on a few calls, where 01:54:52.659 --> 01:54:58.119 I was left alone in no bueno situations. So, 01:54:58.279 --> 01:55:05.079 yeah, I don't know how you fix this culture, 01:55:05.159 --> 01:55:09.119 but I think it has to start with the way we're 01:55:09.119 --> 01:55:12.619 thinking about the job and thinking about, you 01:55:12.619 --> 01:55:14.710 know, when you... I guess when I was mentioning 01:55:14.710 --> 01:55:17.170 about the dichotomy between a firefighter's mentality 01:55:17.170 --> 01:55:23.670 and a paramedic's mentality, it is compassion. 01:55:23.930 --> 01:55:26.390 It's things like that that you can't admit as 01:55:26.390 --> 01:55:30.250 a firefighter, but what you need to have as a 01:55:30.250 --> 01:55:33.869 paramedic, as somebody that's a healer, somebody 01:55:33.869 --> 01:55:39.630 that's dealing with people. And I think that'll 01:55:39.630 --> 01:55:41.909 help us deal with each other with compassion. 01:55:45.180 --> 01:55:52.359 um love absolutely i want to just go to one more 01:55:52.359 --> 01:55:53.979 area and then we'll round off and be mindful 01:55:53.979 --> 01:55:57.039 of your time you mentioned psychedelics a little 01:55:57.039 --> 01:55:59.300 while ago obviously you've been talking about 01:55:59.300 --> 01:56:01.300 some of the you know childhood trauma and some 01:56:01.300 --> 01:56:04.399 of the kind of organizational moral injury elements 01:56:04.399 --> 01:56:07.039 of some of the environments that you worked in 01:56:07.789 --> 01:56:10.050 What was the lowest place that you found yourself? 01:56:10.250 --> 01:56:12.109 And then what have been some of the tools that 01:56:12.109 --> 01:56:14.350 you've used to get yourself back into a good 01:56:14.350 --> 01:56:23.529 place? Well, the lowest was a couple of years 01:56:23.529 --> 01:56:26.630 after I'd left the fire department. I was in 01:56:26.630 --> 01:56:29.670 a lot of back pain. I was taking pain pills. 01:56:30.250 --> 01:56:33.229 And so I was addicted to them. I mean, I could 01:56:33.229 --> 01:56:36.569 stop taking them and my body goes into it. Flipped 01:56:36.569 --> 01:56:40.430 out mode. I think I was also, it was helping 01:56:40.430 --> 01:56:46.270 me to just numb out. But I was like, okay, I 01:56:46.270 --> 01:56:49.670 got to, that's the end. So I just cold turkey'd 01:56:49.670 --> 01:56:55.090 it. And it was about the third day. I couldn't 01:56:55.090 --> 01:56:58.189 sleep all night. And it was about, I don't know, 01:56:58.210 --> 01:56:59.770 three or four in the morning. I went out and 01:56:59.770 --> 01:57:07.520 just sat in my car. And the sun came up. And 01:57:07.520 --> 01:57:17.579 I started driving. And I was just driving. I 01:57:17.579 --> 01:57:26.020 didn't know. I had no destination. And I couldn't 01:57:26.020 --> 01:57:28.420 see myself alive tomorrow. I had no plan to kill 01:57:28.420 --> 01:57:31.020 myself or anything, but I could not see myself 01:57:31.020 --> 01:57:35.359 alive tomorrow. And all of a sudden, my mom calls 01:57:35.359 --> 01:57:39.140 me. And she hadn't called me in a couple of years. 01:57:39.340 --> 01:57:41.600 I didn't even know if she was able to physically 01:57:41.600 --> 01:57:44.260 dial the phone herself. She goes, what are you 01:57:44.260 --> 01:57:46.000 doing? I said, driving. She said, where? I said, 01:57:46.100 --> 01:57:49.880 nowhere, just driving. And she said, well, come 01:57:49.880 --> 01:57:53.060 over to the house. And I said, no, not today. 01:57:54.020 --> 01:57:57.960 Hung up, kept driving. She called me back. She 01:57:57.960 --> 01:57:59.500 said, you're on your way over yet? I said, no, 01:57:59.500 --> 01:58:02.659 I'm not coming. And then that went on a couple 01:58:02.659 --> 01:58:06.420 of times. She called me maybe a third or fourth 01:58:06.420 --> 01:58:09.180 time, and I just paused, and I was like, well, 01:58:09.359 --> 01:58:14.159 she's 91. Either way, I need to say goodbye to 01:58:14.159 --> 01:58:19.159 her. So I did. I said, okay, I'm coming. And 01:58:19.159 --> 01:58:23.859 we got to her house, kissed her on the forehead, 01:58:24.140 --> 01:58:27.500 went and sat by the chair by the window. I just 01:58:27.500 --> 01:58:30.380 fucking lost it, just tears, just sobbing. I'd 01:58:30.380 --> 01:58:33.079 never sobbed like that. I'd never cried like 01:58:33.079 --> 01:58:36.050 that in my life. And it went on and on. And next 01:58:36.050 --> 01:58:37.909 thing I know, she's got her hand on my shoulder. 01:58:38.529 --> 01:58:40.710 And part of my mind's thinking, how did she even 01:58:40.710 --> 01:58:43.449 get out of bed? And she stood there with me for 01:58:43.449 --> 01:58:48.270 a long time. As I started to subside, she left 01:58:48.270 --> 01:58:51.989 for a minute. And she came back and she grabbed 01:58:51.989 --> 01:58:55.350 my hand and she motioned me to follow her. And 01:58:55.350 --> 01:58:57.609 I fell into the bathroom. She had warm water 01:58:57.609 --> 01:59:03.560 running. And she motioned me to... to rinse my 01:59:03.560 --> 01:59:06.880 face and i did it was just like amazing and then 01:59:06.880 --> 01:59:09.100 she gave me a towel pull out of my face and then 01:59:09.100 --> 01:59:12.000 she led me out in the bathroom out in the dining 01:59:12.000 --> 01:59:15.399 room or living around whatever this plate of 01:59:15.399 --> 01:59:19.239 freshly cut cucumber and tomato with this olive 01:59:19.239 --> 01:59:24.659 oil and lemon and i took my first bite of that 01:59:24.659 --> 01:59:30.340 and the cucumber and it was like life just exploded 01:59:30.340 --> 01:59:39.100 back into my mouth it um life yeah and that was 01:59:39.100 --> 01:59:49.859 the beginning of the path upwards back to life 01:59:49.859 --> 01:59:56.840 uh what was the second half of that question 01:59:57.550 --> 01:59:59.930 that's okay so so that was obviously a pivotal 01:59:59.930 --> 02:00:02.310 point what were some of the tools you started 02:00:02.310 --> 02:00:08.770 accumulating to actually keep healing um i think 02:00:08.770 --> 02:00:15.550 the big one was uh was my my sister and i had 02:00:15.550 --> 02:00:17.430 been estranged for a long time building back 02:00:17.430 --> 02:00:20.010 a relationship after my mom died she moved to 02:00:20.010 --> 02:00:25.489 north carolina and i uh i went to visitor help 02:00:25.489 --> 02:00:28.050 out or something and she's driving and i'm in 02:00:28.050 --> 02:00:30.289 the passenger seat and she's you know looking 02:00:30.289 --> 02:00:33.510 at me like oh look out for the truck and the 02:00:33.510 --> 02:00:35.289 thing you know i'm seeing everything that's i've 02:00:35.289 --> 02:00:37.770 seen already happening you know she's not driving 02:00:37.770 --> 02:00:41.050 badly but she's not aware of anything that i 02:00:41.050 --> 02:00:43.930 am i'm like look at this intersection where if 02:00:43.930 --> 02:00:45.529 that guy turns left you know be aware of this 02:00:45.529 --> 02:00:47.569 and she's like she looks at me she's like you 02:00:47.569 --> 02:00:52.649 are up what's wrong with you i don't know so 02:00:52.649 --> 02:00:57.359 get home A couple days go by, and she calls me 02:00:57.359 --> 02:00:59.479 and says, show up at this address tomorrow at 02:00:59.479 --> 02:01:03.100 2 o 'clock. Wear comfortable clothes. So I show 02:01:03.100 --> 02:01:06.159 up, and this little guru guy, big beard, he's 02:01:06.159 --> 02:01:08.579 Israeli, and I can barely understand him. Cool 02:01:08.579 --> 02:01:12.300 guy. And he says, I'm going to give you some 02:01:12.300 --> 02:01:16.560 magic mushrooms and MDMA and do some breathing, 02:01:16.619 --> 02:01:18.460 and then we're going to do a meditation with 02:01:18.460 --> 02:01:21.640 the sound of these instruments and stuff. I'm 02:01:21.640 --> 02:01:24.689 like, all right, bring it. So we do this heavy 02:01:24.689 --> 02:01:28.109 breathing, holotropic breathing, which kind of 02:01:28.109 --> 02:01:31.890 completely alters your state already. And then 02:01:31.890 --> 02:01:34.409 I don't know if I took this stuff before or thereafter, 02:01:34.689 --> 02:01:37.850 but then you lie down and you go into the sound 02:01:37.850 --> 02:01:42.329 meditation, and each instrument is its own thing. 02:01:43.210 --> 02:01:45.449 Like you may start off with the buffalo drums. 02:01:47.050 --> 02:01:50.569 This incredible frequency just, you know, it's 02:01:50.569 --> 02:01:52.390 like it just goes through your body. It just 02:01:52.390 --> 02:01:57.289 turns everything up. And then you'll have that 02:01:57.289 --> 02:01:59.729 and then there'll be a two or three minute pause. 02:02:00.149 --> 02:02:04.789 And then another instrument starts like the singing 02:02:04.789 --> 02:02:10.270 bowls or chimes or something. Each one, the first 02:02:10.270 --> 02:02:16.020 time that I did it, I... Each instrument was 02:02:16.020 --> 02:02:21.140 a completely different experience and release 02:02:21.140 --> 02:02:24.119 of trauma. And at this point, that's what was 02:02:24.119 --> 02:02:26.500 happening in these. It was a release of trauma. 02:02:27.479 --> 02:02:32.859 And at one point, in one instrument, I remember 02:02:32.859 --> 02:02:37.039 my body almost in convulsions. Like if you were 02:02:37.039 --> 02:02:40.579 in the worst turbulence. ever and you're holding 02:02:40.579 --> 02:02:43.159 on for dear life that's that's what it felt like 02:02:43.159 --> 02:02:46.119 my body's doing this but my mind is separate 02:02:46.119 --> 02:02:49.779 and it's not my mind's not doing that's my body 02:02:49.779 --> 02:02:52.720 doing it holding on holding on and this would 02:02:52.720 --> 02:02:55.140 go on for a half hour 45 minutes and in one of 02:02:55.140 --> 02:02:59.319 the times i saw this like a rolodex of faces 02:02:59.319 --> 02:03:02.180 like somebody like cards or rolodex that you 02:03:02.180 --> 02:03:04.840 know hundreds of them just one after another 02:03:04.840 --> 02:03:08.399 and i didn't have any any connection to them 02:03:08.399 --> 02:03:10.359 i didn't recognize any of the faces i just knew 02:03:10.359 --> 02:03:13.260 that they were dead that this was death leaving 02:03:13.260 --> 02:03:19.840 my body that's what i got out of that um and 02:03:19.840 --> 02:03:22.840 at some point this would happen over and over 02:03:22.840 --> 02:03:26.560 not the death but that thing with my body and 02:03:26.560 --> 02:03:31.060 um at some point it would start to relax my hands 02:03:31.060 --> 02:03:33.420 would start to relax my my body my breathing 02:03:33.420 --> 02:03:36.100 would go back to normal and i'd be completely 02:03:37.099 --> 02:03:40.439 relaxed with the same frequency that had stimulated 02:03:40.439 --> 02:03:45.479 that trauma in the first place so it really was 02:03:45.479 --> 02:03:50.479 like peeling layers of an onion each and you 02:03:50.479 --> 02:03:53.680 know off with each instrument and the next day 02:03:53.680 --> 02:03:57.840 I had developed all you know hyper what do you 02:03:57.840 --> 02:04:00.560 call hyper vigilance I developed all these fears 02:04:00.560 --> 02:04:04.079 one of them was flying being in a you know aluminum 02:04:04.079 --> 02:04:06.829 tube at 35 I couldn't imagine that even though 02:04:06.829 --> 02:04:09.289 i've flown hundreds of times all these fears 02:04:09.289 --> 02:04:13.369 and coincidentally i had scheduled i had i bought 02:04:13.369 --> 02:04:15.529 a flight to kauai i wanted to take my little 02:04:15.529 --> 02:04:18.069 daughter and show her my favorite place on earth 02:04:18.069 --> 02:04:19.930 and my plan was i'm just going to white knuckle 02:04:19.930 --> 02:04:23.270 it i'll get there you know but next morning i 02:04:23.270 --> 02:04:25.250 picked her up six o 'clock in the morning go 02:04:25.250 --> 02:04:29.810 and get on this flight and i'm fine And I'm seeing 02:04:29.810 --> 02:04:32.609 color where my whole world was just, you know, 02:04:32.609 --> 02:04:36.369 tones of gray. And this weight that I didn't 02:04:36.369 --> 02:04:39.649 even know that I had, like I was, I would have 02:04:39.649 --> 02:04:43.630 to think really deeply whether it was worth it 02:04:43.630 --> 02:04:46.369 for me to take the energy to get off the couch, 02:04:46.550 --> 02:04:50.029 to go take a leak or get something to drink. 02:04:50.569 --> 02:04:54.590 That's how much weight I was carrying. It felt 02:04:54.590 --> 02:04:58.510 physical. And it was just gone the next day. 02:04:58.810 --> 02:05:04.189 Gone, gone. So I ended up studying with the guy 02:05:04.189 --> 02:05:06.189 that invented this whole thing, and he's working 02:05:06.189 --> 02:05:09.210 with mushrooms and Johns Hopkins. He's a professor 02:05:09.210 --> 02:05:13.430 at Harvard in ethnomusicology, and studied with 02:05:13.430 --> 02:05:18.210 him deep into frequency, ancient sound, fractal 02:05:18.210 --> 02:05:22.069 geometry, sacred geometry, how that all works 02:05:22.069 --> 02:05:27.229 together. So I actually brought my son with me. 02:05:27.270 --> 02:05:30.890 It was eight days, at least 12 hours a day, deep 02:05:30.890 --> 02:05:34.569 into this stuff. That was the biggest thing. 02:05:34.729 --> 02:05:38.510 And the second biggest thing is when I found 02:05:38.510 --> 02:05:41.390 out that there is a problem with mental health 02:05:41.390 --> 02:05:44.409 and first responders. And I started meeting some 02:05:44.409 --> 02:05:47.789 of the other, it was like these cops and firemen 02:05:47.789 --> 02:05:53.250 that had survived. their own suicide. Not, not 02:05:53.250 --> 02:05:55.850 that they'd, but they'd been at the, that point 02:05:55.850 --> 02:05:57.789 and they'd brought themselves back into life. 02:05:58.689 --> 02:06:04.029 Um, and seeing, hearing their stories, hearing 02:06:04.029 --> 02:06:07.149 the courage to tell their stories was mind blowing 02:06:07.149 --> 02:06:09.489 to me. I mean, I was just in awe. I couldn't 02:06:09.489 --> 02:06:11.229 believe what I was hearing with these people. 02:06:11.250 --> 02:06:14.329 And it's like, okay, well these people are worth 02:06:14.329 --> 02:06:18.029 saving. Um, and the biggest thing that I'm learning 02:06:18.029 --> 02:06:21.960 now, and I think it's, one of the hardest things 02:06:21.960 --> 02:06:24.300 for all of us first responders, what I'm finding 02:06:24.300 --> 02:06:30.340 is to one, ask for help and to receive help, 02:06:30.439 --> 02:06:34.119 like allow it in. And the next step beyond that 02:06:34.119 --> 02:06:37.899 is to allow love in, you know, to allow other 02:06:37.899 --> 02:06:43.239 people to love you. This is big sea changes for 02:06:43.239 --> 02:06:45.560 me in my life. This is what I'm trying to be 02:06:45.560 --> 02:06:52.539 open to. And, and I think that, You know, this 02:06:52.539 --> 02:06:54.939 brotherhood that I am finally finding amongst 02:06:54.939 --> 02:07:00.279 first responders who are like, man, I'm here. 02:07:00.359 --> 02:07:07.119 I love you. Call me. You know, and we talk about 02:07:07.119 --> 02:07:09.840 how much we love each other all the time. Love 02:07:09.840 --> 02:07:15.939 you, brother. I got you, brother. Sister. And 02:07:15.939 --> 02:07:20.850 that's how it should be. Because we're. You're 02:07:20.850 --> 02:07:22.649 talking about a lot of some of the stuff you're 02:07:22.649 --> 02:07:25.170 talking about with departments. And if they did 02:07:25.170 --> 02:07:27.810 this, then they'd have all these great benefits, 02:07:27.890 --> 02:07:31.289 less sick days, you know, less overtime, less 02:07:31.289 --> 02:07:34.069 four tires, all that stuff, saving money and 02:07:34.069 --> 02:07:37.710 everything. So why don't they do it? Because 02:07:37.710 --> 02:07:41.189 we all say that, hey, if you did this, we make 02:07:41.189 --> 02:07:43.449 great cases for why they should do it. But why 02:07:43.449 --> 02:07:49.270 don't they don't? So why? That is just the reality 02:07:49.270 --> 02:07:51.210 is that we've been talking about this stuff now 02:07:51.210 --> 02:07:54.289 for a long time, but they don't implement it 02:07:54.289 --> 02:08:01.770 as a whole. So why? I kind of got us onto a whole 02:08:01.770 --> 02:08:06.109 different subject. So I guess the reason I brought 02:08:06.109 --> 02:08:08.890 it up is that we can't expect the departments 02:08:08.890 --> 02:08:12.649 to take care of us or give a shit. And therefore, 02:08:12.810 --> 02:08:16.229 who can we rely on instead of tearing each other 02:08:16.229 --> 02:08:20.239 to pieces? bits and pieces, you know, by supporting 02:08:20.239 --> 02:08:23.739 each other and relying on each other and really 02:08:23.739 --> 02:08:27.460 being real with each other would really change 02:08:27.460 --> 02:08:33.300 the whole experience, I think. Yeah, absolutely. 02:08:33.840 --> 02:08:36.420 Well, for people listening, if they want to learn 02:08:36.420 --> 02:08:38.640 more about you, what you're doing now, reach 02:08:38.640 --> 02:08:40.659 out, et cetera, where are the best places online? 02:08:41.100 --> 02:08:45.199 Well, morganengland .com. With the U on England. 02:08:46.260 --> 02:08:49.439 That's where you, the best place to kind of branch 02:08:49.439 --> 02:08:53.319 out from. Morgan England on any social media 02:08:53.319 --> 02:08:59.359 or Morgan England Music. Instagram. I'm not a 02:08:59.359 --> 02:09:01.399 big social media person. You know, I'm really 02:09:01.399 --> 02:09:04.699 working on launching this speaking career. I 02:09:04.699 --> 02:09:08.539 didn't even ever intend to talk about mental 02:09:08.539 --> 02:09:11.359 health. I didn't even know about it. It took 02:09:11.359 --> 02:09:14.220 me eight months of people telling me, In my coaching, 02:09:14.300 --> 02:09:17.180 to get this TEDx talk, I would tell little stories. 02:09:17.239 --> 02:09:19.439 They're like, you have to talk about this. No 02:09:19.439 --> 02:09:23.539 way, man. Not me. I'm not that guy. But one day, 02:09:23.739 --> 02:09:25.899 I just woke up, and I'm like, let me just take 02:09:25.899 --> 02:09:28.159 a look and see. And I put mental health and first 02:09:28.159 --> 02:09:30.779 responders and the computer, and that's what 02:09:30.779 --> 02:09:36.859 opened up this whole, you know, I had no idea 02:09:36.859 --> 02:09:41.850 about any of it. And I lost several people that 02:09:41.850 --> 02:09:43.750 were pretty close to me in the fire department 02:09:43.750 --> 02:09:48.810 to suicide. And I never connected that with me 02:09:48.810 --> 02:09:54.850 until I started seeing the statistics and meeting 02:09:54.850 --> 02:09:58.170 and hearing people's stories and stuff like that. 02:09:58.569 --> 02:10:00.989 So, yeah, so you can reach me at Morgan England 02:10:00.989 --> 02:10:05.149 pretty much anywhere. Beautiful. Well, I want 02:10:05.149 --> 02:10:09.180 to thank you again for trusting. you know this 02:10:09.180 --> 02:10:11.520 show me with with the kind of depths that you've 02:10:11.520 --> 02:10:13.380 got in this conversation i think that in itself 02:10:13.380 --> 02:10:15.779 speaks volumes and it is courage i mean that's 02:10:15.779 --> 02:10:18.439 really the whole point it's not courage to bury 02:10:18.439 --> 02:10:20.979 things and push them down it's courage to you 02:10:20.979 --> 02:10:23.489 know yeah Absolutely bury them temporarily when 02:10:23.489 --> 02:10:25.810 you're on a call. Like I always say, don't start 02:10:25.810 --> 02:10:28.489 queening out about the blood on a call. You got 02:10:28.489 --> 02:10:30.850 to be in the flow state then. But, you know, 02:10:30.850 --> 02:10:32.810 after being able to process this, be able to 02:10:32.810 --> 02:10:34.890 talk about it and that courageous vulnerability 02:10:34.890 --> 02:10:38.350 is everything. So I want to thank you so much 02:10:38.350 --> 02:10:40.649 for being so generous with your time and coming 02:10:40.649 --> 02:10:43.489 on the Behind the Shield podcast today. Yeah, 02:10:43.489 --> 02:10:46.840 man. I'm really glad to be here. And I know that 02:10:46.840 --> 02:10:48.720 as soon as we get off, I'm going to start thinking 02:10:48.720 --> 02:10:51.619 about, oh, God, what I say here, what I say there. 02:10:51.680 --> 02:10:55.199 So if there's anything, instead of me calling 02:10:55.199 --> 02:10:59.539 you, you know, did I sound like a victim? Did 02:10:59.539 --> 02:11:03.220 I this or that? Anything you'd say to ease my 02:11:03.220 --> 02:11:05.859 mind so you don't have to get that call. Because 02:11:05.859 --> 02:11:08.840 I know myself. No, I always say this is an organic 02:11:08.840 --> 02:11:11.699 conversation. I almost never edit unless it's 02:11:11.699 --> 02:11:13.500 something like, oh, God, I mentioned that person 02:11:13.500 --> 02:11:15.500 I should have taken. And I can take that out. 02:11:15.579 --> 02:11:18.699 But no, I mean, this is the way it should be. 02:11:18.739 --> 02:11:21.039 And this is coming from your heart. So we should 02:11:21.039 --> 02:11:23.539 leave it. All right, great. Well, I trust you. 02:11:23.579 --> 02:11:26.359 And you're doing great work out there. So it's 02:11:26.359 --> 02:11:28.340 my pleasure to be on here. And thank you for 02:11:28.340 --> 02:11:32.619 finding value in what I'm bringing to the table. 02:11:33.659 --> 02:11:34.500 Really appreciate that.