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the Behind the Shield podcast with the CEO and
founder, Francisco Morales. Welcome to the Behind
the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James
Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor
to welcome on the show CrossFit legend and founder
of NC Fit, Jason Kalipa. So we discuss a host
of topics from the undulating path of CrossFit,
the importance of recovery, overcoming injury,
jiu -jitsu, his daughter's powerful leukemia
story, and so much more. Before we get to this
amazing conversation, as I say every week, please
just take a moment, go to whichever app you listen
to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback,
and leave a rating. Every five -star rating truly
does elevate this podcast, making it easier for
others to find. And this is a free library for
you, planet Earth. So all I ask in return is
that you help share these incredible men and
women's stories so I can get them to every single
person who needs to hear them. So with that being
said, I introduce to you Jason Kalipa. Enjoy.
Well, Jason, I want to start by saying thank
you so much for taking the time to come on the
Behind the Shield podcast today. Yeah, no, I
appreciate being here and excited to chat about
all things fitness, life, whatever you want to
talk about, I'm in. Brilliant. Well, I think
a great opening icebreaker would be Sandlot Jacks.
So I was there. I took my son, who's about to
turn 15, Jason, Emily, so many people that were
there being on the show, Tim. So talk to me about...
The last couple of years, you know, apolitical,
just the last couple of years. And then, you
know, what was that event like for you coming
from California to have that kind of community
all weekend with all those great minds? Yeah,
all that, all that. Yeah, the fitness freedom.
It was good. You know, look, coming from California,
I make no secret about it. I own a company that
has brick and mortar locations, corporate wellness
and digital. So our brick and mortar took a major,
major hit through COVID. You know, it was very,
very difficult with the regulations that we had
here. You know, you have to learn a lot, right?
You have to take what's in your control. And
I couldn't worry about things that were outside
of my control. And I had to really approach with
a positive mindset. I couldn't go into this deep
darkness of, oh, I'm in California and COVID
is ruining my business. I had to get through
that because I chose to run a business and operate
here. And this is where I live. But going out
to Florida was like a... It was like a different
world. Although things are opening up and they
are open here now where I live, everything is
completely open. It was nice to go out there
and just reconnect with people, shake hands,
talk to people. It felt really good. And obviously
Jason and the Go Ruck team are first in class.
So that was a lot of fun event. That was a very
fun event. Now, I know you roll with Tim Kennedy
as well. Jiu -Jitsu is one of your passions now.
Talk to me about that because I was looking out
for Tim. He's been on the show twice. I did Shoop
Dog Response with him. I got to work out with
him. I got to roll in his Gracie Barra, I think,
in Austin. Just very, very small moments with
him. So anyway, I'm there talking to someone
at a vendor. Next thing I'm in the air, I'm like,
what the fuck just happened? Anyway, now I turn
around and yeah, he's basically picked me up
and was swinging me around in front of all these
people. So I got my very brief, you know, Tim
Kennedy experience and then took his jujitsu
class that he put on that weekend as well. Okay,
you did. Okay. Yeah. So, but I know you guys,
I missed it, but you guys actually rolled for
a bit as well. Yeah, basically, you know, Tim
and I have been connected for quite a while.
We have a lot of similar interests, fitness,
jujitsu, family, right? Those are things we really
connect on. And originally I was introduced to
him because of some of the stuff he was doing
through his acting academy and through different
school. And again, you know, he aligns with a
lot of the principles that I want to embody.
And that I want my son to embody basically this
idea of being a gentleman and really being loving
and caring. But at the same time, as he would
call it, be able to rip somebody's arms off and
beat them to death with it. You know, there was
a lot that I appreciate with that concept, right?
Being a gentleman, but also being very capable.
And so I would message with him on a regular
basis, just saying what's up. And we'd always
try and connect. It never really worked out.
And then finally, we get to connect out there
in Florida. And I was like, look, man, like we
got a role. And because if I have an opportunity
to go learn from someone like him, I'm going
to try and rob and steal everything I can. So
I ended up bringing my gi and I thought we're
going to roll gi. I thought we're going to go
to like a gym and make it all like a special
thing. Turns out we're just standing there and
he's like, dude, I got like an hour. I was like,
yeah, okay. And so we just no gi, no rash guard,
no nothing. We just, we found some mats through
him in the middle of the grass and just went
at it. And, you know, it's funny because. And
there was nothing like orchestrated about it,
right? It was just like two dudes, especially
for me, I just wanted to roll with him so he
could tell me what I could work on and how I
could learn from him. And it just so happened
that we did it in a very public way, but we didn't
like intended to be that way. And so, yeah, we
rolled for about 25, 30 minutes. He worked top,
I worked top. It was a good, it was a good, it
was a good roll. Obviously, you know, he definitely
had the upper hand. But I learned a lot that
experience. So it was great. So with that, just
one takeaway from the last couple of years, this
whole time, one of the most disappointing things
to me is we had such an amazing opportunity to
talk about community, to talk about nutrition,
movement, sleep, time in nature. And sadly, a
lot of the conversations were from the two far
extremes and a lot of that was lost. And here
we come out now, and I touch on this a lot. Now
we're talking about gas prices and Johnny Depp's
divorce. And again, that distraction has come
away. With you having a deep understanding of
physical performance, of nutrition, how do we
take advantage of that and reinsert that wellness
lesson as we emerge from this last couple of
years? Yeah, I mean, look, I think from a politician
perspective, and this I think is a fact that
most people agree with. is that most of these
politicians or people, they want to say they
have a cure to the problem, right? Let's just
say it's a mask or a vaccine. And like, okay,
that's cool. Got it. But it's not very sexy or...
powerful to say, Hey guys, we need to get sunlight.
We need to exercise. We need to eat better. We
need to, you know, take control of our fitness
and wellness. And I feel like that message was
lost to, you know, kind of your point. And it's
unfortunate because it doesn't hit the mainstream
media as much. Every blue moon, someone to say,
Hey, statistically, if you have comorbidities,
it doesn't benefit you, but it's not quote unquote.
like fancy to talk about things that most people
know are, are good for them. And so I think,
you know, what we could do as a society to take
steps in the proper direction is surround yourself
with like -minded people, right? Find a gym,
find a home. Uh, if that's CrossFit, if that's
jujitsu, if that's the local YMCA, go find a
place where you can surround yourself with other
people that want to improve their lives. Because
if you've been struggling with that, surrounding
yourself with that will help kind of inspire
you and, or, you know, identify a reason why
you want to do it in the first place. You know,
I think that one of the things that I think about
a lot is that if at this point someone's in their
thirties, forties, fifties, and they've never
exercised me telling them that they're going
to get a six pack or look better or whatever
is, is probably not going to inspire them because
they probably already know the health benefits.
Um, but what they might not know is just the
de -stress component. how it makes you feel better,
how these micro adversities that you could put
yourself through could help you with real life
challenges. And I think those are some of the
things that people could start doing tomorrow.
Go for a 10 minute walk, maybe add a ruck to
it and then start building upon that. But what
people will find is that when they have these
micro challenges, let's just say it's doing 10
pushups, but you fight to get 12 and you overcome
that challenge, it'll then carry over well. If
or when life throws you a little bit of a curveball,
you've utilized fitness as a way to kind of build
up the mindset. And so if you're not inspired
by six pack or health benefits, maybe you're
inspired by learning how to overcome micro challenges.
So I had a real aha moment. I just came back
from a cruise. And right before I did, I bought
a book by a guy I've had on the show before,
Johan Hari, and it's called Stolen Focus. And
it's all these different ways that we're being
distracted. And it's, you know, some things are
very actionable by individuals. Some things are
far more, you know, corporately motivated to
keep you on a phone, to keep you, you know, whatever
it is. And so I deliberately... Didn't touch
my phone for – it's actually been 10 days now
because it carried on after I got back and was
out on the balcony every day and reading. But
that hyper -focus is something that I heard you
talking about. I think it was with Ben Bergeron
and his podcast with the kind of AMRAP mentality.
So what, again, have been your observations about
distractions and how do we – get people to understand
that we are being pulled a thousand ways. And
you have to fight to get that focus to singularly
be present on each thing, whether it's your nutrition,
whether it's, you know, your exercise or family
or business. Yeah. I mean, it's a difficult task
nowadays, right? You have access to the entire
world within your pocket. And back in the day,
there wasn't as many distractions. You know,
now, I mean, literally you can go anywhere. anywhere
on your phone right you could disappear you could
be on tiktok instagram you name it you could
look up anything you want and so it's very alluring
it's it's almost addicting like a casino game
right it's very um in that sense and i think
what you need to remind yourself of is that a
lot of the times we as a society i think are
becoming less present in what we're doing because
again these distractions pop up everywhere you
get a notification and so the idea of the amrap
mentality is this theory that really was created
through CrossFit where you would AMRAP things.
So let's just say, I don't know, I asked you
to go do as many reps as possible in five minutes
of burpees. Well, if I asked you to do that,
you would just be focused on that. You would
be present, you would be focused, you'd get in
your five minutes and you'd move on. And so I
thought to myself, why don't I take that same
mindset? and then embody it in other things that
I'm doing, where I am being present and focused
and trying to get as much work done as I can
in the period of time. Like right now, I'm just
communicating with you. And what was happening
to me in my life was that I would find myself
one foot in, one foot out on a lot of different
important topics. So, you know, a great example
would be years ago, we were expanding our business
globally. In particular, we were expanding to
Asia. And so at the time, I would take a lot
of calls at around... maybe like 5 PM. And when
I would take these calls, sometimes I would take
them from a spin bike or an assault bike where
I'd be trying to get in my conditioning. So I
was competing professionally in the sport of
CrossFit while also trying to get in my conference
call. And what I realized when I was done with
the call, and I was always like almost second
guess myself, like, did I really do the best
I could in either of those things? Was I, did
I actually answer those questions really well?
Or did someone say, Hey, Jason, what do you think?
I took myself off mute. I was like, I think it's
a great idea. back to mute because I was in the
middle of assault intervals. And that was really
eye -opening for me is that I wasn't reaching
my potential in either area. So by AMRAPing,
being present, being focused, I would then finish
the task and really know that I put my best foot
forward. And that's the whole theory behind it.
Beautiful. Well, I want to start at the very
beginning and kind of see if we can find where
some of this mindset first came from. So tell
me where you were born and tell me a little bit
about your family dynamic, what your parents
did and how many siblings. grew up in San Jose,
California. I have one sister. My mom is originally
from Rhode Island, moved here from, her parents
came from Italy, or her grandparents, and then
she moved here from Rhode Island. My dad is first
generation from Iran, came here when he was 19,
and grew up in San Jose, had one sister, found
BMX at an early age. I used to race BMX bikes
competitively. Once I found high school, I ended
up ditching the bikes. I got injured quite a
bit, found football, found track and field, and
kind of carried on from there. Well, I know one
thing that's unique with you that you don't hear
very often is that you also met your wife in
high school. That's right. So down the road with
kids, with competitive achievements, and then
some family challenges as well, when you look
back now, what were some of the things that are...
that made your marriage so successful where a
lot of other people, and obviously some people
when they're in high school just haven't met
the right person yet, but what do you attribute
that particular relationship success to? Yeah.
So I met my wife when we were 14. We ended up
dating since we were 15. Ah, man. I mean, I think
we got lucky, right? We got a little lucky. It
was good communication, trying to grow together,
but definitely got lucky because as we grew and
she was already more mature than I was when we
first met, I eventually got more mature when
I hit college. But I think we kind of grew together
and we had mutually wanted to see each other
be successful instead of growing apart. But I
think a lot of that, some of that was definitely
luck that we ended up having similar interests.
you know, and being good compliments to each
other. But that's not for everybody. You know,
it just ended up working out for us. And yeah,
great. Thankfully so. Now, what about career
aspirations? What were you dreaming of becoming
when you were in high school? When I was in high
school, I didn't really apply myself much. I
didn't really care. I wanted to kind of specialize
in partying. So I spent a lot of time just trying
to party, get, you know, hang out. you know,
wakeboard, snowboard, play sports and party.
And it wasn't until I hit college. I kind of
realized like, Hey, that lifestyle was not very
conducive to me wanting to reach my potential
and reach my goals. And that's really when I
started to buckle down. You know, I, I started
working at a traditional health club when I was
about 15, 16 on the weekends, I would sell gym
memberships or excuse me, uh, sell like Gatorades
and, and, and welcome people. And then as time
went on, when I got to college, I ended up getting
a job as a salesperson. And that's really where
I learned how to talk to people, learned how
to communicate. That was one of the best jobs
I could possibly have asked for because it really
taught me how to... connect with different types
of people, people coming to the gym from all
walks of life, different ethnicities, different
ages, different financial perspectives. And you
would have to work with them on finding a solution,
which was ultimately trying to get them to become
a member of the gym. So I did that from when
I was a freshman through senior year of college.
And then I ended up opening up a business right
out of college, which was a CrossFit gym. So
that's a good segue then. Beautiful. Talk to
me about your first discovery of CrossFit. If
there was a specific workout you remember, and
then What was that contrast with the type of
training that you were used to in those gyms
you worked at before? Yeah, I mean, you know,
traditionally, I think when I was racing BMX
bikes, there really was no focus on fitness.
It was just kind of like you spent a lot of time
on the bike. When I got to high school, it was
fine, right? You got introduced to some of these
movements, but it was one coach to 60 kids. It
was tough. And so when I got to college and I
was at, you know, I started doing Muay Thai,
started exploring traditional bodybuilding, spent
a lot of time doing that type of thing because
I was exposed to it. Working at the gym, that
was common. And then in 2006, CrossFit kind of
came on the scene and a friend of mine at the
gym, his mom introduced him to it. And we went
to our first workout. I was fortunate enough
to be surrounded by, you know, some of the first
CrossFit gyms ever because it was really originally
founded in Santa Cruz. So I went for my first
workout. wasn't really kind of, it was fine.
It was different, but it was fine. It took me
a few months, like six months to really try to
understand the intention of the clock and the
effort that needed to be to get a good workout.
So I was so used to just kind of like buys and
tries, chest and back type of workouts. So after
a few months, I kind of caught on and that's
when I fell in love with the idea of having a
coach, a community, a clock. So when I was getting
ready to graduate from college and was thinking
about what I wanted to do, It was a good natural
fit for me to want to go open up a gym like that.
And at the time, it wasn't the norm. None of
my friends were thinking about opening their
own business. But, you know, I did it. And I
ended up winning the CrossFit Games shortly thereafter.
And it turned into a great career choice. So
with some of the sports you talked about, snowboarding,
BMX, you don't think of, you know, the pain cave,
the lactate threshold. It's a little bit more
skill based. When did you start? And realizing
that you could push yourself further. And, you
know, when you look back again at the formative
years, is there any element that you attribute
to having that fortitude that, you know, many
people couldn't push through? You know, I do
think, you know, looking back on it, BMX racing
was helpful. The only reason why I say that is
because I would ride these things called rollers
in my garage and I would train on those sometimes.
And then when you're out there, you're learning
how to overcome. the adversity of being on a
gate with seven other guys and you're trying
to get off the gate first. And it's, it's, it's
an aggressive sport and having more power in
your legs was beneficial. And that grunt work
of kind of like, it was like a four minute, just
all out sprint. But I don't know exactly what
kind of like, maybe genetically I had, I had
a benefit there, but I was surrounded by people
at the time in like 06, 07, 08, who really wanted
to get after it. And We really wanted to push
ourselves. And we didn't think we were getting
a good workout unless you're on the floor afterwards
throwing up. And that was what I was surrounded
by. And that also kind of came from Muay Thai.
When I was training Muay Thai, it was a very
aggressive sport. And that mentality transferred
over well into CrossFit for me and the people
I was surrounded by. So I'm grateful for those
people because I wouldn't have known what that
next gear was if it wasn't for those people showing
me. So I've had an interesting perspective because
I got into it about 06 as well. And it was a
friend of mine was at CrossFit Marina, which
I think was Huntington Beach, California. And
so he kind of passed it on. We were like, what
the hell is this? And the next thing we're crying
on the bay floor of a fire station to go, this
is CrossFit. OK, this is horrible. Let's do some
more. So through my lens as an athlete and ultimately
a coach, I've watched, you know, the kind of
ebbs and flows of. That whole space from, you
know, like you're talking about, the kind of
Greg Armisen fire breathing initial element to
the games coming in. Then I'm seeing, you know,
in my gym specifically. the shift go to people
walk through a door and immediately want to be
rich froning and a lot of shortcuts. And that's
where you see some of the injuries and the coaches
mature. And now we understand, you know, muscle
balances and movement and leaving your ego at
the door. So it's been really interesting for
me, but I'm, you know, weekend warrior. I use
CrossFit as an adjunct to be a good firefighter.
With you winning the games in 08, being a coach,
being a gym owner, what have been some of your
observations of the last, you know, decade and
a half of, you know, the world of CrossFit? I
mean, it evolved, right? So I got into this in
2006. I won the games in 08. I was fortunate
enough to compete for the next eight years professionally.
I got back on the podium a couple of times. Really,
you know, I really feel like I saw, I got to
see a side of CrossFit was cool. You know, we
started off on the ranch. It was dirt. We finally
made it to the Home Depot Center. We felt like
we were just, you know, big ballers, you know,
on this main stage. And now it's in Madison,
but. It was fun to watch the sponsors come in.
It was fun to watch the growth, you know, Reebok
comes in and that really made us feel like we
were professional athletes. Sponsorships came
in and I saw it go from, you know, one workout
a day to two days to three days to basically
living in the gym. And I think what I've seen
over time is that it's been incredibly impactful
on the world. I think Greg Glassman, what he
created. has forever changed fitness. And I think
it's hard to argue otherwise, meaning you show
up at a traditional gym and there's kettlebells
on, uh, there's kettlebells and bumper plates.
And, and with the growth of Olympic weightlifting
and the growth of gymnastics, I think some of
that, at least for in particular weight, Olympic
weightlifting can be, can be, um, said that that
came from CrossFit. It exposed so many more people
to these kind of more fringe sports prior. And
I think that introduction of kettlebells and
the clock, you're seeing signs that in hotel
gyms across the world. And so I think what I've
seen evolved is this idea of functional movement.
What I've seen evolved is this idea of going
from single muscle group, you know, bicep to
now thinking about more compound multi -joint
function versus actual what muscle group it applies.
Now, I think what happened is the pendulum swung
real far. So in the beginning of the pendulum
over here on like traditional bodybuilding, nothing
wrong with traditional bodybuilding. Frankly,
when I got into it and then I got into CrossFit,
I would think that anybody was bodybuilding.
I just didn't understand it. I couldn't realize
why anybody would want to bodybuild because I
was just so caught up in the mindset of CrossFit.
As much work, as fast as you can, you know, dynamic
lifts, compound movements, all this kind of stuff,
functional in nature. And I think that over the
last 10, 15 years, I became more open -minded,
right? I just, I was closed off for a little
bit and it was us versus the global gym. And
now when I think about it, it's just like everybody
trying to get more fit. And I think what happened
is we, as a society, I worked really hard to
get better at exercising just to get better at
exercising. And I would work out to get better
at working out. And that was fine for me because
I was trying to compete at a highest level. I
was a professional athlete. But now that I've
retired from the sport and I've evolved into
jujitsu and other things, I've came to realize
that the goal of our gym at NC Fit is to help
people live freely and fully outside the gym.
So we want to provide tools to help them outside,
keep up with their kids, do all kinds of stuff,
be a better firefighter, be a better law enforcement,
whatever. Whereas back in the day, I was just
training to be better at training. Now my mindset
has shifted. Let's train to really allow us to
do whatever we want for the rest of our life.
And I think that's just been an evolution of
not only mine, but also as a sport of CrossFit,
I think a lot of people are starting to see some
that too. So one thing I've noticed as well is
just like you said, we had... you know weekend
warrior people that walk through not done it
very long and now they are gym rats you know
and people would look at me for example and think
that that was what i was doing i was one hour
a day you know four times a week and it was paying
huge dividends Muay Thai, I've done that for,
again, Weekend Warrior for a long time. And I
watched that go from shoot box, you know, Melrose
in LA, which was literally fight club. I'd leave
there with perforated eardrums and broken noses
and, you know, all that stuff. To now, you know,
you're hearing about people barely sparring,
pad work, and then, you know, do the hard work
in the cage or in the ring. What have you seen
as far as the less is more philosophy in the
CrossFit in 2020 or in that just any of that
kind of, you know, hit training these days? Yeah,
I mean, that's a good question. I mean, Matt
Chan and I were having a conversation about that
the other day. You know, it's funny. I look at
my strength. I look at my abilities today compared
to where I was at in 2000. I think I probably
was at the peak of my fitness in 13, 14, 15,
probably at the peak in terms of CrossFit fitness.
Now I think I have a different type of fitness
because of how much I've exposed myself to new
sports. I think I was beating down my body too
much. I think I was putting in too much volume
and I don't know if I needed to. It was almost
like an addiction because you feel like if you
weren't training, you weren't benefiting your
body, but really your body also needs rest to
recover and you can be more dynamic. And, and
what I wish I would have done back then is spent
more time playing new sports and developing new
skills and less time doing the same thing 50
times a day. Because I think I would have developed
athleticism that would have carried over better
into my sport of CrossFit and also into life.
And I would have hit these micro muscle groups
that I wasn't hitting as well. Because even though
I thought I was doing varied movements, I was
still doing similar movements repetitively. So
I wish I would have just regularly played more
sports and focused more on just like maybe two
sessions a day versus trying to do like five
sessions a day. Well, I think that's one thing
that I talk to my athletes about. And, you know,
I saw it myself in the fire service, for example,
is, you know, that whole Kenny Powers thing being
the best at working out that there was an element
of truth in CrossFit. And that's what a lot of
us were doing at one point. And whether it's
going outside and doing some strongman movements,
you know, with sleds and moving weight over distance,
which I use as an adjunct, which I think those
two together work very well for the fire service.
The other thing is, how do you test it? So I'll
do Spartans and Tough Mudders and, you know.
jiu -jitsu and all that kind of thing but i'm
not training for those sports it's a test of
my crossfit and i think that's a part of the
conversation that i know you know greg and some
of those other people at the the the initial
level talk about but it's kind of lost in the
gyms is you know use this to train for something
else to be that dad that takes your kid to the
beach or you know can kick a football around
with with your daughter or whatever it is but
if you just use the actual CrossFit as well as
your barometer, you're never going to understand
the application of that to the real world. And
then as you said, when you're playing and hiking
and whatever it is that you love to do outside,
now you have a why. You have, okay, I see this
is working. Now when I'm feeling tired in the
CrossFit gym, this is driving me to train harder
so I can go hike or go swim or go paddleboard
or whatever your chosen sport is. Yeah, I mean,
like if you had asked me 10 years ago, you know,
what should people be doing? I thought they should
be doing some snatches and developing some additional
skills. I've changed my tune on that a little
bit. And I think if someone desires to snatch,
rope climb, muscle up, handstand, go for it.
And we have an avenue to help you get there.
Like we got your back. But I think for most people,
most of the time, especially if you're only training
three or four days a week, we should really focus
on, you know, fundamental strength conditioning.
Come in, push. pull, hinge, squat, and work 12
to 20 minute conditioning pieces. And if you
come in more often and you have a desire to expand
your experiences, heck yeah, let's get you going.
But foundationally at NC Fit, what we're really
leaning towards is this idea of just a fundamental
strength component and a great conditioning piece.
And if you have desires to get your margins really
wide and expose yourself to a ton of different
movements, that's cool. But you also then need
to... dedicate the amount of time needed to get
good at those. What was happening to me, I saw
some athletes and this is just a learning lesson
is that I would have someone come in maybe two
or three days a week and we would snatch. Well,
the thing is we'd only snatch like once a week.
So the likelihood of them coming in on a snatch
day wasn't that common. So the question would
be how long would it take for that individual
to develop any level of competency in that movement
to perform with any level of efficiency? to load
it up with anything in a way to provide an impact.
And you can make the argument, hey, people get
neurological benefits from using PVC pipe. And
I get that. But the question would be, if you
only had a certain amount of days, a certain
amount of hours with someone, is it better off
them learning those dynamic skills like a snatch?
Or would you be better off learning a hang power
clean or a front squat? And those are things
that we've been evolving and finding out because
we own and operate brick and mortar, saying to
ourselves, what are we really doing to give these
people the tools to live? freely and fully outside
the gym. And ultimately the idea is depending
on how often you come in, that does change what
you should be exposing yourself to. Yeah. I found
this with firefighters as well. You know, a lot
of us get deconditioned and then there's an ego
element. I don't mean that in a derogatory way
at all. There's a fear of looking stupid amongst
our peers. And so a snatch or, you know, a Turkish
getup or some of these higher skill movements.
you know, are very intimidating to some people.
And what I've found just as a white belt, one
stripe coach myself, is when you give someone
a sandbag or a sled, you can get work capacity
up pretty quickly. And the skill level is very
low versus my own personal thing. I'm terrible
at snatching. Once my, you know, my skill level
goes through fatigue, I can't do the work because
I can't get the damn bar over my head anymore.
So, you know, I found that as a great tool. If,
as you said, you don't have like a full, full
-time athlete, a lower skill movement pays far
more dividends as far as work capacity than something
that takes a higher level of skill. Yeah. And
I should note that although the work capacity
component is very, very important, if you have
a desire to learn additional skills, or if you
want to increase ranges of motion, you know,
an overhead squat and a full snatch are phenomenal
tools, phenomenal, because they develop great
ankle, shoulder, hip range of motion. They develop
great you know, um, I mean, if you think about
like the quickest lift on the planet, you know,
you're talking about a snatch and it's so dynamic.
All I'm saying is that for most people, or for
a lot of people, a lot of the time, they may
not have the time commitment to ever develop
that, that skill level, but if they have a desire,
we should help them get there. Um, but I, I think
where, where fitness comes into play. And what
CrossFit did a really good job of is that there
was these sets of skills that you can learn.
And people love this idea of chasing the movements,
like getting their first muscle up, getting their
first bar muscle up. And there's something to
that. But, you know, if you don't desire to get
those, then you should just come in, get a great
strength conditioning foundation, and then go
pursue other things that give you that fulfillment,
such as, you know, the fire service, you know,
Spartan races or jujitsu. Absolutely. I think
another thing as well is setting the bar. So
if you're getting your first muscle up, it's
a first good muscle up as well, but not the chicken
wing. And it's not, again, being derogatory,
but setting your bar that I'm going to be doing
a good gymnastic kip and I'm going to catch it
the right way and making that your bar versus,
oh, I've got muscle ups now when you haven't.
And now, again, you're kind of heading down the
injury path again. Yeah. I mean, you want to
move well, right? That just comes from age. It
comes from perspective. When you've seen a lot
of people work out, when you've seen a lot of
people, some people get injured, when you yourself
have done things that are stupid, you just learn
and you evolve from there. And I think that's
where the industry really has gone, at least
for me. I started in the fitness space when I
was, like I said, 15 years old. And I've seen
a lot. And I think we're just seeing... CrossFit,
I think, will forever have its stamp on fitness.
And I think the next couple of years will be
really telling on where CrossFit goes and where
the industry goes in terms of where people fall
into categories of what they're looking to do
for their fitness and how they're going to express
it. Absolutely. Well, I want to shift to a different
topic because I want to be mindful of your time.
You and your wife experienced, I think, every
parent's worst nightmare, which is a pretty horrendous
leukemia diagnosis for a young child. So kind
of walk me through the years leading up to that
because I know there were some decisions that
you made financially in other areas that… help
set you up for success for some elements of that?
And then talk to me about the world of pediatric
cancer and what you learned and how we can help
move the needle on that. Yeah, it's not a good
world. It's a tough world. But yeah, so really,
it's funny. I wrote this book, As Many Reps As
Possible. I wrote it really with this intention
that when our daughter got sick, it really opened
my eyes that we were so blessed to have done
so many things leading up to that. to put us
in the best position to handle it. We had developed
our relationships with our family and our close
friends. We had worked really hard in our business
to create a financial hedge. We had worked really
hard in the gym to develop a fitness hedge. And
I think that those things are so incredibly valuable
if or when life comes and kicks you in the nuts.
Looking at COVID as a great example of that,
COVID came and kicked a lot of people down and
some people worse than others. But I think that
if you were as well positioned as you could be,
you could have handled it better, right? If you
had the financial hedge, the connections with
your family, the close bonds, and the way that
you were able to develop those is by AMRAPing,
really being present and focused when you're
with them, really putting in the hard work when
you're at work and making yourself, even if you
work for another organization, making yourself
so darn valuable that if a child of yours did
get sick, you could take the time off and because
you've earned your stripes there, they'll bring
you back on in a heartbeat and they'll support
you. But if you weren't working hard, if you
were going through the motions, if you weren't
developing relationships, if you weren't in the
gym, that's a much tougher journey to overcome.
And so, you know, we, we, you know, basically
the way it went for us was for months, we were
kind of seeing a bunch of signs and, and, you
know, in hindsight, it's always 2020, but, you
know, Ava would fall asleep at school. Um, she
would have, um, leg excessive leg pain and we
just couldn't quite understand it. And then at
some point she was just bruising like extensively.
And we're like, dude, she's falling asleep at
school. She can't even walk like, you know, She
came and walk like, what is going on? And we
took her to so many different doctors and it
was always kind of like something. And then finally,
when the bruising happened, that was like the,
Oh, and so we tested her blood work. And that
was when we knew something was up. And so we
went to the ER and ended up just basically staying
there. And you know, that, that type of news
is frightening. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's
life changing to say the least, but you learn
a lot of the process, you know, the, the leukemia
diagnosis for a young girl. And technology changes
all the time. But basically where we were at
is two and a half years of chemo, steroids, lumbar
punctures, you name it. That's a long time. And
you learn a lot being in the hospital. You learn
to be compassionate. You meet people who are
at the worst of the worst, the worst moments.
And you can come together through that shared
experience. And I don't wish it on anybody ever.
But for us and our family, it taught us a whole
lot about perspective, taught us a lot about
family, taught us about relationships. And I
don't want to say I'm fortunate, but at an early
age, I'm glad I was able to go through that because
now we can lean on that experience for the rest
of our lives. And really, it reframes everything
else that we're going through. Now, I've had
a couple of friends on who sadly they lost their
children to that same thing. A lot of frustration
because when they actually started delving into
the world of pediatric cancer, it seemed like
there was very little funding for the research
as well compared to a lot of adult ones. My argument
has been I think there's a lot of things that
we do to ourselves environmentally that create
a lot of adult cancers and there should be more
focus on the pediatric ones. Yeah. Well, and
if the idea is to try and save lives, right?
If the idea is trying to add. So I think one
of the organizations is like adding years to
people's lives or something of that nature. Why
wouldn't you support the children who statistically
would have longer to live statistically, right?
Assuming they made it through, then a 50 -year
-old or 60 -year -old adult. And only a very
small percentage of all funding goes towards
pediatric cancer, which is very, very sad. And,
you know, we support an organization, my wife
and I support an organization called Nigu, and
it's nigu .org. It's never, ever give up. And
the team there is incredible. My wife does an
annual fundraiser called Ava's Kitchen. And,
you know, it's our way of kind of getting behind
the mission of trying to put smiles on kids'
face when they're going through really difficult
times. And Ava's Kitchen has been extremely successful,
raised millions of dollars. And the idea is just,
again, take this money. donate it to negu then
as as a group we then go do great things with
it like send kids to disneyland with their families
put smiles on kids faces send joy jars so when
they're in the hospital they could pop open this
jar and get get toys that's that's a that's an
initiative that we'll do for the rest of our
lives because We know what it was like. And there's
some days where you're having incredibly difficult
days. And if you just got one of those joy jars,
it could totally transform and maybe push people
to make it through the final journey. And another
thing we do, which I would highly recommend anybody
listening to, and I can't speak strong enough
about this, is donate blood regularly, right?
You could be the richest person in the world,
but if someone doesn't donate, and I don't need
to tell you, if someone doesn't donate, there's
no product there. And so if you're a healthy
person, You should be donating blood on a regular
basis. And if you haven't done the cotton swab
for Be The Match, I'd recommend that too. You
never know when you can help somebody out to
be a bone marrow transplant. And that's a really
powerful thing that if I ever get called on to
do it, I'll be right there to support because
I think that's a very big deal also. Absolutely.
It was very sad. I can't give blood being from
England. Oh, that's right. A mad cow disease.
They look at my veins and they're drooling outside
our grocery store. I'm like, I wish I could,
mate. If you change the rules, I'll be the first
one in line. Yeah, they need to evolve those
rules for sure. The questionnaire they ask is
pretty dated. Yeah, it is indeed. Well, just
before I go to the app, how is Ava now? She's
doing great. She's four years out of treatment.
We have one more year till we really pop the
champagne and really at year five, that's when
they consider you cured. And the statistical
likelihood of getting cancer again is the same
as me or you. And so, you know, she's thriving.
And, you know, what I found is I'm very, very
dedicated to kids and fitness, getting them moving.
We have a sauna and a cold plunge here at the
house. The cold plunge has been really impactful
on her and our family, getting some exposure,
overcoming that adversity, learning how to control
your breath. has been really helpful and just
exercising regularly has been really valuable
for the mindset. And so she's thriving. I could
not be more happy with where we're at, but it's
interesting because people go through difficult
experiences in their lives and you've seen firsthand
more than most. And it changes the way you look
at things. For some people, the worst thing that's
ever happened to them is when their car runs
out of gas, as an example, maybe or whatever.
And if that's the worst thing that's ever happened
to you, I hope that it stays that way. Right.
But but just opening your mind to this perspective
that there's a lot of people struggling with
a lot of really, really bad stuff on a daily
basis. And if you could, you know, kind of look
at the world, that lens of like, hey, being grateful
and. I guess what I'm trying to say, and I know
that people in your profession have seen this.
They've seen people in their darkest moments.
And if you could wake up and just be like, hey,
it's going to be a good day. Have a positive
mindset because basically the problems you're
looking to overcome are a fraction of what other
people are really going through. I think that
just, you know. leads to a better day overall.
I don't need to tell you, you know? No, I agree
completely. I think that gratitude is one of
the missing components and so much, not only
within a household, but on the screens, you know,
coming from the mouth of a president, left or
right, you know, you can beat your chest and
say what a great country it is, but you have
to start with understanding how lucky you are
and then how you can then work to improve your
household, your community, your state, and then
ultimately your country. Yeah, 100%. I agree
with you. Well, you touched on before we started
recording about NCX, the NCFIT programming that
you have. And you mentioned that was very pertinent
to the tactical population. So talk to me about
the workouts that you have and how people can
access those. Yeah, I mean, I think for me, I've
worked a lot of military, a lot of law enforcement
groups. And what I've came to the conclusion
of is that I wanted to provide a program that
my mom or dad, if they came in three days a week,
they have one hour a day. or the NYPD or anybody
else for that matter had three days a week, one
hour a day, what program would I give them? Something
with enough variety to keep them interested,
but not so much that they're trying to reinvent
the wheel every day. And that's our NCX program.
Every day, you're going to do some type of strength
work, push, pull, squat, hinge, et cetera. And
then finish up with a 12 to 20 minute conditioning
piece. And I think that for anybody in the fire
service, anybody out there who's... military
law enforcement who wants to kind of put in the
effort get after it i think the nc fit app is
a great option for you and i think in particular
our ncx program that's what i use in conjunction
with my jiu -jitsu every now and then i do our
other programs but for the most part i focus
on just fundamental strength conditioning that's
that's carried over the best for my jiu -jitsu
and other sports that i'm involved in beautiful
well thank you for that and where people where
can people find that app Uh, right now it's on
the app store, iOS, uh, you know, Apple app store
under NC fit. And it'd be great if you guys wouldn't
check that out. Um, and in the future, we'll
get it back on Android. It's just, you know,
as, as our business has grown, like I said, we
have brick and mortar, we have digital, et cetera.
Yeah. You learn what you're good at when you're
not good at. And I think we, we had released
an Android app and it, it wasn't up to our standard
and we had to take it down and it pissed some
people off, but. Ultimately, you got to stand
behind your product. And so we will have it back
on the Android store. It's just, it needs to
be great and it wasn't great. So we're waiting
until it's great to put it out. Beautiful. Well,
firstly, where can people find the book as many
reps as possible? I think the audio book is a
great option. It's on Amazon. That was a big
learning experience writing the book and going
through that experience. But I think the audio
book is a great place to go and Audible is a
good place to get it from. Brilliant. And then
I know you have a website. So where can people
find the website? And then what about on social
media? Yeah, they can go to nc .fit. They can
go to jasonclepa .com. They can go to jasonclepa
on different social channels. I'm pretty accessible.
Shoot me a DM if you have any questions about
training. But yeah, I just want everybody to
be happy. Live free, like Tim Kenny always talks
about, and then get after it in the gym, you
know, and then use those skills to help them
get after it outside the gym. So if I could support
people for their in -gym stuff, I got you covered.
Brilliant. Well, Jason, I want to thank you so
much. I know I've got to let you go now, but
I truly appreciate you carving some time out
and speaking to the audience today. Yeah, you
know, like I was telling you. Ava's four years
out of treatment. She's got a volleyball game.
So I'm, I'm heading off to a volleyball game
and we'll see, uh, we'll see if they get the
W, but it's been fun to watch her get into sports.
So it's, you know, it's, it's great. So yeah,
I got a kid's volleyball game and offset and,
and back to, uh, back to work.