Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As
always, my name is James Geering, and this week
it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show,
helicopter pilot and the founder of Helicopters
Without Borders, Owen McClung -Sitnam. Now, in
this conversation, we discuss a host of topics,
from his journey into aviation, fighting wildland
fires, EMS, responding to underserved indigenous
populations, some notable rescues, moral injury.
positive tribalism, and so much more. Now, before
we get to this incredible conversation, as I
say every week, please just take a moment, go
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So with that being said, I introduce to you...
Owen McClung Sidnam. Enjoy. Well, Owen, I want
to start by saying two things. Firstly, thank
you to our mutual friend, Dave Prechera Best,
for making this introduction. And secondly, I
want to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield
podcast today. Yeah, thanks for having me, James.
Excited to be here. So where on planet Earth
are we finding you this afternoon? You know,
so I've been born and raised in British Columbia.
Here, I have the pleasure. sitting on the unceded
and traditional territories of Musqueam, Tsleil
-Waututh and Squamish families, otherwise known
as Vancouver. I grew up over on a little island
off the coast called Bowen Island and been living
here for the last few years but prior to that
was up in northern parts of Canada and all around
Canada where my work took me. Well, let's start
at the very beginning of your timeline then.
Tell me where you were born and tell me a little
bit about your family dynamic, what your parents
did, how many siblings. Yeah, sure. So I was
born over in North Vancouver, here in British
Columbia. I'm pretty sure you're familiar with
Canada. I know you're down in the States though,
I believe. Yeah, somewhat. More so on the East
Coast. I went to Montreal and Toronto, but I
haven't been on the West Coast. Yeah, right on.
Yeah, and then we moved over. I was four years
old. I had two incredible parents, Danny and
Laura, otherwise known as Dad and Mom. And they
moved over to Bowen Island, which is a little
community of about 3 ,000 people when I was a
youngster and grew up in this really tight -knit
community over there. You know everyone's face.
I'm not great with names, but you definitely
know everyone's face around the island. You kind
of grow up in this extended family there. Dad
was my inspiration to get into aviation. When
he was my age, my dad was a bush pilot, a helicopter
pilot. He kind of had a very similar career to
my start, too. He was fighting fires down the
coast, as well as the inland and northern parts
of Canada. And mom, she had a big job of taking
care of me and my sister, Cora Rose, when we
were kids growing up. So my sister Cora, she's
two years older than me. She's also in the charity
sector. She does major gift fundraising for Children's
Hospital here in the Lower Mainland. And yeah,
that's a little small background of my upbringing
there, James, yeah. What is your ethnic heritage?
Because McClung sounds very Scottish to me, but
then Sitnam reminds me of Thailand. So it's a
very interesting last name you've got. Yeah,
no, I think I have some heritage from all over
the place, it seems like. So, you know, mom's
side, Irish and Scottish. Mom's American herself
and Canadian now. On my father's side there from
Trinidad and Italy. So I got kind of the best
of east and west there. What was it that sent
your father into the world of piloting in the
first place? My dad has a great story when he
was young. He was working as a chef at the very
first K, which is a steakhouse now, a big steakhouse
chain in Canada. And he was working as a chef
there when he was 18, 19. A fellow came in with
a helicopter and landed in the backyard. His
clients didn't show up, so he asked my dad if
he wanted to go for a rip. My dad said yeah,
and the way that my dad explains it, he never
looked back after that. He became a helicopter
pilot and started his journey there. My dad runs
a company, Helijet International, here in Vancouver.
He's just always been... around, you know, taking
me out to the helicopter since I was a little
kid and seeing the organization and, you know,
going through high school there. I was a little
bit of a punk and I was having a hard time finishing
high school and all my friends were signing up
for university and I kind of just skimmed past
grade 12 there. I was in no need or desire to
go to university just because I just kind of
struggled a bit through high school. And, you
know, dad said, you know, you always loved helicopters.
He goes, what about going to get your helicopter
license? Mom and dad gave me a loan to go and
do that. I went out and same thing with me. I
just fell in love with it. And I never looked
back. And then I ended up getting my commercial
license, moving up north of Canada and starting
to build my hours. Obviously, we're going to
get to your time, you know, in the helicopter.
But what are some of the... the most epic stories
of your father's career that you've heard you
know from that timeline well maybe some of them
i can't share james publicly um some of dad's
good stories that he had you know he i always
remember one story that he he told me he was
fueling up a helicopter i think up near squamish
uh near whistler and it was right on the uh i
believe he was in his old gazelle And he was
fueling up a helicopter on the side of the road
near this train track. And he had the helicopter
on one side of the train track and the fuel cache
on the other side. So you can kind of get an
idea of where the story is going. We had the
hose lined up over to his helicopter. And he
heard some horns blowing down the ways. And next
thing you knew, the train was coming and he still
had the hose over the railroad track. I think
just to make it tight, he was able to run back
from the helicopter and get the hose passed there
before my existence expired in his as well, I
guess. We have these, I've never used them in
real life, but these blocks that are supposed
to allow you to drive over a fire hose without
breaking it. And I remember when early in my
career, I saw this picture and I don't know who
was behind it, but they had a... A hose line
over a railroad track and they'd put those blocks
on the tracks like the train was just going to
be able to jump over them. So that's the visual
I get when you tell me that story. I'll need
to pass that on to them for next time for sure.
What about sports and exercise? What were you
playing and doing when you were a young boy through
the school ages? I loved baseball, James. I always
played baseball as a youngster growing up on
Bowen Island, that small community I was telling
you about. That was our go -to. You know, I think
a lot of city folks, you have a lot more options
of what to do as a kid. But for me and the young
homies, we would drift down to the baseball park.
And, you know, our team, I always remember our
team was number one every single year when we
were young all the way until we were teenagers.
And finally, the districts, because Bowen Island,
we had our own team and we always played the
city teams there. and they ended up splitting
up our Bowen League just because we were dominating
every single year, and they mixed us in with
the city teams. But, yeah, I always loved baseball,
and I still play in a beer league over on Bowen
Highlands, still with some mates as well, whatever
games I can make over in the season. And I played
a bit of rugby. Once I got out of high school,
I enjoyed rugby, played second row. I've never
been the most athletic individual. I was kind
of always that average player, but I always loved
doing it. And now, yeah, so as I said, baseball
is probably the only team sport I do. And I like
to bike ride with dad, go to the gym, do a class.
That's kind of it, yeah. You mentioned about
feeling a little wayward in high school. Was
there anything on your mind as far as career
aspirations then, or were you completely kind
of clueless at that point? I was probably pretty
clueless, James, until... Until I figured out
I wasn't going to become a professional baseball
player, that was not going to pan out as I hoped.
I was probably in grade 11 or 12, I started to
think more so in aviation, having that chat with
my dad that I'd maybe go down that route. I always
loved teaching though. You know, I wasn't teaching
at that point, but I loved aspect and I got along
well with some of my teachers specifically. Mr.
Holmes, my woodworking teacher, and I thought
maybe that would be a career path for me, maybe
become a teacher down the line. That was probably
the only thing that I kind of thought about as
a youngster, maybe going that way. What about
during your earlier life? Did you have any exposure
or understanding of some of these underserved
communities that didn't have the resources that
the city, for example, has a luxury of? Honestly,
James, no. I didn't know. I wasn't educated on
it. For here in Canada, reconciliation is not
a new thing, but it's becoming more and more
a realization of what's happening in some of
our communities and what's happening in some
of our population and how life is in our backyard.
So for me, it wasn't until really getting into
helicopters of wars when I started to see firsthand
that fire started to grow more and more that
this is something that I want to do, that more
community and social -based work. But not so
much when I was younger, no. What about the entry
to the world of piloting? You have your father.
Obviously, he's a great pilot. He's taken you
under his wing. What was your aptitude at the
beginning? Did you take to it pretty well or
were you struggling? So I struggled through high
school, but it was kind of neat to see. I think
for anyone, you know, when you find something
that you're kind of passionate about and you
enjoy, you know, my marks in aviation school
were the best marks that I'd ever seen through
all elementary and high school there. It kind
of just clicked for me, aviation, piloting. You
know, I enjoyed it. I love working with my hands
and feet. The one class that I did enjoy in high
school was mathematics and physics. I'm not saying
I was a connoisseur or great at those, but I
always did enjoy going to those classes. And
then within aviation, you know, it's pretty basic
math and physics that you got to know in there.
But either way, it was something that I was enjoying
there. you know, putting the puzzle pieces together.
And furthermore, when I started to upgrade my
licenses and get into the IFR, which is instrument
flight rules, so more so your head's inside the
cockpit than outside to navigate. That's where
I really started to enjoy it too, because, you
know, you might be flying in the clouds and you're
turning dials and punching out frequencies and
discussing with your co -pilot there. pulling
levers, pressing handles, and then all of a sudden
you pop out and you're 200 feet above a runway
and you're like, whoa, the system works. And
I love that. It kind of felt like a little bit
of a game of chess just to get there. So which
role did you find yourself first in when you
actually got your license? So when I first got
my license, I went on a road trip up to Northern
Canada. A lot of drivers, pilots in there. The
beginning parts of their careers will go up in
Canada into more of the bush work and get that
VFR experience, which is the visual flight rules.
And that's what I did. So, you know, I traveled
for about a year trying to even just find a placement
with a company. Up in the north, I got on with
a company called Vancouver Island Helicopters
at the time. Really great experience. I wasn't
flying, but, you know, more just taking out the
garbages and shoveling snow. trying to just prove
myself to them for more of a character reference.
I got good experience working around helicopters,
fueling up the helicopters in some mines that
I was up near the panhandle of Alaska, Gloucreek.
But it was probably going to be, they told me,
and they were transparent, they said it was probably
going to be about five years until you actually
get in the cockpit. So I started looking around
and then I got referred to another company called
Remote Helicopters in northern Alberta. And they
had just previously laid off a pilot and they
needed a new pilot to do a pipeline patrol. So
it was just really right place, right time, James,
because I think the stat when I was going through
school, I remember hearing it was like five to
10 % of helicopter pilots that get their commercial
license actually go through with it and find
a job and the rest end up having to leave the
industry just because there's so little jobs
out there. So I was one of those very few folks
that found a company that would get it going.
And what I started doing was this pipeline patrol.
And my captain at the time was Brandon Dewick,
who's a good friend of mine to this day. And
he kind of trained me for the first couple of
years doing this pipeline patrol. And after that's
when we started to get into more fires. In aviation,
you work your way up, you know, with some of
those low -hanging fruit jobs, maybe the less
technical jobs. work your way up to more technical
roles, maybe more technical helicopters there.
What is Pipeline Patrol? What does that entail?
At the time, I didn't even really know myself.
I just wanted to fly the helicopter. I've heard
of Core Patrol, but I think that's different.
Yeah. So we had an infrared camera on the bottom
of the helicopter. And you're looking, you follow
a pipeline. I think it was for... having a pipelines
up there and you follow a pipeline you're looking
for any leaks any cracks any abnormal activity
happening along the pipeline because that you
know they had thousands of square kilometers
that their pipelines run up in northern alberta
here they use aviation they use helicopters to
be kind of the eyes and ears from the sky and
then we report that back to the oil and gas company
if there's any um anything of interest that we
think they should look at yeah the What would
it be? Third fire department I worked for when
I first went through the orientation. And then
we were given our assignments as far as a station.
And he was the captain at the time, was given
out the assignments. And then he goes, all right,
the next station. He said, you see this map here?
He said, well. If we have an incident at this
station, you guys won't even be alive anymore.
So the next station will be coming to respond
because we had a pipeline going through Orange
County, Orlando. And then right in that first
year was also a fertilizer factory. And for a
lot of people, they know that fossil fuels and
fertilizers tend to go bang if there's a spark.
So I was at the station where we were right next
to the pipeline and God forbid there'd been an
issue. All of the firefighters have been vaporized,
basically. So yeah, I'm glad I don't work there
anymore. No kidding. So you mentioned wildfires
then. So kind of walk me through the journey
to that position. And what does that even entail
through a pilot size? Yeah, there's a few different
avenues in forestry that you can go in. uh as
a helicopter pilot and you know for the most
part i'll just talk on helicopters rather than
fix one because i don't have any experience on
the airplane side but for me how it started was
that's that infrared camera that i told you about
the first job that i had on a fire was we'd head
out to the fire i was operating the camera and
once the fire has passed and for the most part
for the the men and women on the ground And the
other aviation assets, once they've somewhat
got the fire almost extinguished, they'll bring
this helicopter in. Our helicopter is a small
one. And we grid the entire fire back and forth
with this camera looking for hot spots. Anything
that might potentially re -spark the fire. Once
we find those hot spots, we take those coordinates,
give them back. That was my first introduction
to wildfires. From there, the next season. My
boss, Kevin Hickley, you know, he kind of gave
me a little bit more leash and he let me captain
the helicopter out on some of these fires. And
then I would have my own camera operator. And
then also we would move up to the next step,
which is flying around the fire bosses. So we'd
pick them up in our helicopter. We'd fly the
fire boss, you know, some days you just eight
hours of just circling the fire from a high altitude
bird dogging. And that fire boss that's in the
helicopter sitting beside me, he or she. is giving
the direction to all the other aviation assets
that are down there actually on the fire suppression,
the ones that are dumping the water. And then
also the crews on the ground giving direction
there. I did that for about two years. And then
the next step up was when I get into the A -star
was initial attack. And that's where things kind
of get a little bit more fun, you know, in the
field, because now you're actually doing the
fire suppression. So I would go up north, you
know, from... May to October every year and get
a helicopter and you kind of say goodbye to management
and you get shipped out somewhere in Canada to
go and chase the fires. It's usually yourself,
an engineer and three or four firefighters on
this initial attack and we'll get staged anywhere.
I was primarily based in Alberta from Slave Lake
so we travel around Alberta and we get stationed
out. Somewhere on the boonies for the day, we'd
fly out there. That'd be our staging point. And
on initial attack, you're just waiting for the
call. So they have all these different helicopter
assets around Alberta. And most provinces do
a similar process. And as soon as a lightning
strike might happen, as soon as someone reports
a fire, you get the call and you're the first
one on the fire. You'll get to the fire. You'll
do a few laps. The firefighters will take its
measurements and specifics there and relay them
back to base. We'll drop off the boys as close
as we can get to the fire. Sometimes they have
pretty long hikes or maybe you'll do an over
exit, get them a little bit closer. They'll hit
the fire from the ground. And then at that point,
I'll throw the belly bucket on and a long line
on. And then I'll fight it from the air with
constant radio communication from air to ground.
Let me know where they want me to hit the fire
exactly until we extinguish it. In a lot of cases,
and I've found it got worse and worse every year,
summer's got hotter, we've got to call in more
assets, some more helicopters to call in the
air tankers there if the fire does take off and
we can't get it under control. We've seen some
pretty funny videos over the last few years of
where some of these helicopters are getting their
water source from. People on the California mountains
where their pool is suddenly plunged. Where are
some of the most unusual places you've found
water? Yeah, I know there are some good videos.
I remember this one time I was in the 212 and
we got dispatched to a fire right beside these
folks' house. And they had a big kind of tailoring
pond. This looked like a man -made lake right
beside the house and the fire was right beside
it. So I was like... Perfect. You know, I'm just
going to, you don't even have to do a circuit.
I can just go pick up, drop, pick up, drop. Well,
the time when you're firing fire, you can be,
you know, miles, you might be 10 minutes, 15
minutes from your closest water source. I had
it right there. So I went in and started just
dumping water in the fire out of this pond and
all the fire trucks and police finally showed
up there. And then this one. dude underneath
my helicopter just comes out there I could see
him waving my hands at me from down below and
he's grabbing his hair you know pulling his eyeballs
out it looked like freaking out and I didn't
know what was going on I just kept on going about
my business and and then finally dispatch called
me on the radio they said hey Owen like you got
to stop pulling out of that pond so what are
you talking about their house is about to light
on fire the guy just apparently spent a million
dollars filling it with trout that pond there
and that's his main fishing resource that you're
pulling it out of and then the firefighter said
they had like hundreds of trout all over the
fire so i think i uh obviously i had to go and
look for a different spot there but they ate
well that night yeah but otherwise you know you
know i don't have any like really uh fascinating
spots you know sometimes when you're pulling
out of a fast flowing river that can be a little
bit challenging because you'll find yourself
you know as soon as you put the bucket in to
fill it up the river is going to pull the bucket
down so you can feel it pulls the helicopter
so you kind of got to time it so you got to follow
the river's flow a little bit with your bucket
to pull it up and those the rivers the fast moving
rivers can be a little bit more challenging but
on the other side you know in Alberta There's
a lot of marshes, so you can't really get your
bucket in full. You might only get a couple feet,
and that's when the bucket usually gets ripped
on a stick or something like that. Pulling it
up can be a little more challenging. But the
most fun spots is when you don't have a water
source at all. They'll put in these pumpkins,
these big fabric pools, and they'll fill up these
pools with water from one of those lower streams,
and then you've got to put the bucket into these
big pools. pick it up and go and i've never been
a great precision long liner but that was always
fun because you got to be very specific where
you're dropping the bucket into yeah i remember
hearing a story i don't know if it's an urban
legend or if it's actually true that the body
of a scuba diver was found at a wildfire once
and then they figured out supposedly that he
was in a body of water when it was you know scooped
by an aircraft and then dropped on the fire but
i don't know If that ended up just being an urban
legend, is this something that you've heard of?
I have heard that story too, James. Again, I
don't know if there's truth, but I remember hearing
that as well. Yeah, that someone got scooped
up by one of the tankers potentially. Yeah, that'd
be a shitty way to go. Yeah, that's not how I
want to go out. No. No. Well, you talked about
the higher frequency of needing more resources.
In this time that you've been doing this position,
what has been your observation of the frequency
and intensity of these wildfires? Because a lot
of people in the wildland community seem to say,
no, no, no, this global warming thing, it's a
thing because the fires are getting more and
more and more and the seasons are getting longer
and longer and longer. Yeah, yeah. I definitely
saw that. I fought fires for about 10 years total.
And it seemed like throughout the years, I feel
like every couple of years you have a pretty
blazing fire season where you just feel defeated
and you didn't do anything. You didn't put out,
you didn't extinguish anything. For the most
part, I find fighting fires, when you have those
heavy fire seasons, helicopters, guys and girls
on the ground, we're not putting out the fires.
The only thing that's putting out the fires is
Mother Nature when the fall comes. when the rain
comes. That started happening a lot, you know,
as I was fighting fires and feeling that way.
We get out to, you know, a couple hundred thousand
hectare fire and you look at it and you're just
like, where do you start? You know, it takes
you 30 minutes to fly the length of the fire
and it's blazing and here I am carrying 270 gallons
of water on time before I even... Before the
water hits the ground, it's evaporated. And I
think, you know, for us helicopters, we don't
have the same capacity as some of the large tankers,
but our main job is just to increase the humidity
around a fire so it just doesn't spread as quickly.
When it gets to that size of fire, we're not
putting it out. It's not going to happen, but
maybe we can increase the humidity around it
so it just doesn't grow as quickly, or maybe
we can try it. save some assets, some structures
that are around it as well. But I remember my
last few years of putting fires, we just kind
of started thinking, why are we here? You know,
the province is spending millions and millions
a day on this fire alone with all the assets
hitting it. And it's only doubling in size each
day. And that's, you know, sometimes that's a
tough, tough realization. One of the things that
I hear a lot of the wildland community say is
also the opposition to prescribed burns because
of the smoke in the town or the city or whatever
it is. But then you think, well, what is the
impact on the air quality when you have a raging
fire? I mean, surely it's better to do that.
And then the other thing from there, safety is
the... Some of the permits that people have been
allowed to build in these places are so remote
that are now, you know, taking all these resources
to save this one family because they're, you
know, in this certain area that maybe should
be just deemed as, you know, wildland only. So,
you know, it sounds like they're like same with
mine and the municipal side. You know, there
are a lot of answers to these problems, even
with the Jason Ramos talking about the shelters.
You know, our community were kind of led to believe
that if there's a turnover, the shelter will
save you. You know, you look at the sciences,
it's not most likely. And now that becomes kind
of like they talk about with our gear. The better
the quality of gear, the deeper into the fire
we could go, the more dangerous it is. It's the
same with the shelters. If you believe that a
shelter is going to save you, you're going to
put human beings in an area that maybe they shouldn't
have been there in the first place. So when you
listen to the voices of that community, they're
all saying the same thing. Allow, you know, aggressive
prescribed burns to address the fuel in the first
place. You know, make sure people aren't building
where they just, you know, it's going to be so
dangerous for them. And then protecting the urban
interface, clearing the brush. on the edge of
where the houses are i mean that preventative
side would be a lot more effective than this
kind of reactive we've got a fire now we're gonna
you know drop humans in with shovels and and
picks and and hope together they can dig their
way out of this you know hundred thousand acre
monster 100 james like you kind of nailed it
there man and like there's it's a lot to do that
that preventative side but you know you see it
in a lot of communities that are fire zones where
the community, you know, they'll brush down any
brush for the whole perimeter of the community.
So at least you have this fire guard for when
a fire does start or a brush fire does start
that it's not getting right into the community.
And, you know, Slave Lake, where I was working,
you know, for the start of my career, my 20s,
you know, half that town burnt down in a fire.
So, you know, it's pretty sensitive. subject
for them and they're doing a lot of prevention
but every single year it seems like there's a
new some new sort of pressure on another community
that's either getting burned down or partly burned
down there you know these fires are these fires
are massive and there's so many of them like
you know in one province alone you might have
a few hundred fires you know either under control
to out of control burning in a single season
And I find each province fights fires a little
bit differently here in Canada. You know, in
BC and Alberta, we tend to hit and throw a lot
of resources for any fire that's out there. Sometimes
I wonder if it's a little bit political and the
public, you know, if the province isn't seen
doing something about it, they get a lot of backlash.
But when you go up to the Northwest Territories
or Ontario, they tend to have a fire that starts
off unless there's no structures. there's no
pressure towards a community. They just let it
burn. And I kind of feel like that's a better
model. You know, when a fire will burn, the amount
of carbon that comes out of it, there's a lot
of great growth that will happen from that fire
afterwards, initially. So, you know, I just,
I think, you know, it depends on the communities,
depends on the province, how they elect to fight
the fires. But everyone's a little bit different,
I noticed, province to province, from east to
west of Canada. Have you ever heard anyone discuss
how the First Nation people used to deal with
wildland fires before this kind of Western development?
No, not really, James. But I would say the majority
of our firefighters in Alberta are... indigenous
populations that are going out there you know
they've been fighting fires longer than any of
us have you know and they have the best idea
to it and that's why they're still out there
today doing it but no i i'm not too sure you
know how they might have done it differently
in the past i mean aviation obviously is now
a huge part of fighting fires a lot of time when
you move up onto a certain category of helicopter
most you know the first couple hours of your
morning is just moving firefighters out to the
fire and from the camp and then then you throw
on the bucket and you go and rip a few buckets
throughout the day on the fire and then you bring
them back at the end of the night or otherwise
now that we can get to fires a lot quicker is
that why we're fighting them now rather than
just letting them burn things i'm not too too
sure on yeah no interesting yeah yeah what about
the ems side then when did you start flying those
I started flying those when I was 21 years old.
I started to fly EMS. Again, I was always really
attracted to more of the social and community
-based work. I kind of lit a little fire and
untended there. I hurt my butt. So I got into
that, did that for about two, three years, the
EMS. Really enjoyed it. I love doing that type
of work, flying around British Columbia and the
hills. Got to see all these same communities
that now Helicopters Without Borders is servicing.
But, you know, I used to see them on more of
a emerging high acute patient transport realm.
And then after I did that for a couple of years
and then I just missed the bush too much. So
I went back to the bush, back to my old company,
Remote Helicopters, and went and fired us for
another few years after that. And then came back
to EMS again. So I kind of bounced back and forth,
back and forth throughout my 20s there before
starting Helicopters Without Borders. A lot of
people that have talked to me about indigenous
populations, some here in the US, in Canada,
this is obviously not all, but it doesn't seem
like people are aware of a lot of the struggles
of some of these places, reservations, et cetera.
And when you think about the conversation that
we have in our professions, as far as that identity
and that tribe, whether it's you're a firefighter
or a pilot or a paramedic, I can't imagine actually
being part of a tribe, you know, the original
use of the word and then having that systematically
deconstructed to the point where you're kind
of Europeanized and your tribe is kind of, your
identity is almost taken away completely. And
the ripple effect that would have on... alcoholism
and domestic violence and the unaddressed trauma
that we all know is that domino effect. But a
lot of people say there is a lot of struggles
in some of these indigenous populations. What
were you seeing in these communities that you
were serving? Yeah, thanks, Grant. Well, when
I was on fire, again, until I started fighting
fires, I didn't start to realize some of the...
challenges that are happening right now back
there and i think the us is going to be very
similar to but you know i remember getting out
to a fire in northern ontario into a flying community
and just getting there and you know i spent a
month there staying at this lady's house showed
up and kind of like i was just really taken back
um at what was going on you know the amount of
poverty right in our backyard here in Canada,
which is a pretty developed country, but it felt
like you were in an underdeveloped country right
in our backyard. Those stories and those images
are something that I hadn't been shared with
before. I didn't know what was going on. But
a lot of the struggles, you know, it depends
community to community. When I was fighting fires
in Alberta, in Ontario, about that addiction.
A lot of individuals living in that type of isolation,
little services there, will turn to substance.
And that was, I think, pretty prevalent for a
lot of the locations I went to, drugs and alcohol.
I think that tends to be, again, I'm not speaking
for them, I can't, but from my eyes, that tends
to be the number one. And then from that, there's
a trickle -down effect of other type of barriers
that come with living in that type of isolation.
What were some of the memorable calls you ran
while you were still on the EMS side? I think,
you know, that was my first year. I remember,
I think the burn victims were always probably
the most challenging ones. Uh, you know, there
was a young lady that actually lit herself on
fire and I remember picking her up and I think
she had like a hundred percent burn or it might
even have been above that. So we knew that she
was going to pass at some point within the next
few hours, but the burn facility is in Vancouver.
So we flew up to pick her up and yeah, that was
a, you know, that, that image there was tough,
you know, cause the individual no longer has
it. a face or limbs you know it's just what looked
like charcoal at that point so that one kind
of always stuck with me especially the smell
in the helicopter too the challenging one um
i remember i think it was always two the vulnerable
folks you know the young and the elder they were
challenging calls to go to i remember picking
up this young girl and her and her family were
driving from uh prince rupert which is the west
coast of bc over to terrace And we got dispatched
to a call on the highway. A car had run off the
side of the highway into the river. And we got
there and we were the first ones on scene, which
is actually quite rare for their ambulance. Usually
there's always some sort of first responder already
before you who's making the call. I don't know
what happened, but we got there before the ambulances,
before police showed up to the site. There was
no car. You couldn't even see it in the river.
So you can kind of only assume what's going on
or how long that car has been in the river for.
But as soon as the divers got there, they went
down and everyone was still in the car. The only
person that they could pull out was the young
girl. She was about five years old. So they pull
out this young girl and she was already passed.
paramedics tried to revive her and put her in
the helicopter and try and get her to the hospital.
We only have one stretch in the helicopter, so
you kind of got to pick and choose. It was going
to be the young girl that we were going to fly
to the hospital there. So those ones there, you
know, those ones are always challenging. I think
the young and the elder I found for sure. With
your perspective, I've spoken to this from the
kind of flight medic point of view as well, but
as you, as the pilot, My first fire department,
I remember Hialeah, they were big on us creating
LZs and did quite a lot of training actually
on helping the helicopter land. What can the
crews on the ground do to set you up for success
on a scene like that? Yeah, great question, James.
The crews in BC here, because I've only flown
their ambulance in BC, they're fantastic. They're
pretty dialed in, the firefighters, you know,
they go. Some of our managers will go and do
training with the fire departments of how to
set up the LZ. Honestly, there's nothing that
I think they could do better. They already do
such a great job of securing the area. Like just
this last summer, there was a boating accident
over North Van and we got called to a tight little
spot in a park. So, you know, we had hundreds
of people circled around us filming us there.
and that's really hard for the first responders
in a part to secure that area for the helicopter
land but you know they had their whole perimeter
secured with fire trucks and police vehicles
to make sure no one's walking around but a lot
of the time there's only so much they can do
because some of the sites that we land at you
know it's it's really dependent on the on the
drivers on the pilots if we're going to be able
to squeeze in there or not and at the same time
it's they do a good job but they obviously are
not in aviation a lot of them themselves so it's
hard for them to know what the decision is going
to be of the pilot every pilot is different what
their comfort level is when you're landing there
and they got to try and match that standard so
it's not an easy task that they have staying
up to lcs And talk to me about the challenges
when it comes to weather as well, because there's
a lot of times, obviously, you have a call, you
hope there's going to be some sort of helicopter
that's going to be able to transport the patient.
But especially in Florida here, we have a lot
of intense weather, we have high winds, we have
thunder, lightning, et cetera. What are the safety
parameters when you can, and then what are the
restrictions that maybe people don't even realize?
Yeah. Well, for weather, for sure. That's where
most of the cancellations, the majority that
we're going to come from is the weather. So one
of the restrictions that ECHS, the dispatchers
will do is that they don't share any of the information
on the type of call, who the call is for, the
condition of the patient. They don't relay that
to us because they don't want that to... They
don't want that to influence our decision on
safety on the weather. So we just get a call.
We know roughly maybe the coordinates of where
we're going or if it's a hospital transfer, we
know the hospital. We go in and check the weather.
Daytime, you know, in the daytime, it's a lot
easier to get around. You know, you can see and
we're VFR most of the time. But as soon as you
get into night ops. That's where it gets a little
bit more challenging and our margins go way up
at night ops there for obvious reasons. You know,
you just can't see naturally. But I would say,
you know, to answer your question, what are some
things that people don't realize is that, you
know, those first responders, they get a lot
of flack for when they don't go or they do have
to cancel a call. because of weather saying,
you know, maybe they're not, the pilots aren't
trying hard enough. You know, we had to wait
six hours. You know, we're, we're restricted
by law. Like we have, we have minimums that transport
Canada and for you guys down there that FAA sets
for pilots. And this is the limit that you have.
You must have this much visibility. The clouds
must be this high. If they're not, you cannot
go. So we have to follow those. And a lot of
the time when we can't, we're civilian aircraft
is how the ambulance program works here in Canada.
But who can have further or lower margins is
the military. And for us in Canada, the search
and rescue is operated by the military. So they'll
get sent out in circumstances maybe where we
can't or a patient is extremely critical where
they need to send that type of helicopter. Yeah.
Well, speaking of that, Dave was on the show
and talked about some of the most hairy flights
that he's had. What are some of your biggest
pucker factor moments that you've had in the
helicopter itself? Yeah, Dave's an absolute legend,
man. His aviation career spans far and wide past
mine in those stories. For me, it would have
to be weather for the most part. can, can scare
you. But I remember when I was flying, um, I
think I had like 120 hours. So I was fresh out
of school and I was on my second job alone. And
I was in a jet ranger in Northern Alberta and
I was taking some, um, some operators into a,
uh, some sort of research station. I can't remember,
but. I turned the helicopter and I was downwind
at the time and I turned the helicopter for my
final approach. I just didn't have enough airspeed,
man. And I just didn't know the helicopter well
enough. And I made my turn and I made that turn
to make, to go into final. I just started to
fall out of the sky because I didn't keep enough
airspeed. And naturally we'll start to lose airspeed
as you make a sharp turn like that. And I remember
the helicopter just started dropping and I was
already low. And I was like. oh shit man what
what am i gonna do and the only thing you could
do is just nose the helicopter's nose down to
try and pick up airspeed so you can pick up more
lift and that's what i did but i was already
so low and i came right into the tree line luckily
there was a small little road in this tree line
so i was able to go into it down below the tree
line and get some airspeed and come up and i
just remember my passengers and i was like oh
that was so cool that was great man in the back
of my mind i was like you you don't understand
what's going on in my pants right now buddy but
yeah that's great let's go along with that yeah
but it was you know for me my my best learning
experiences have unfortunately been the ones
where i've almost had near misses in aviation
Most of them were when I was younger learning
there. Now I know whenever I make a turn, keep
an air seat. I'm not letting that air seat drop
off. Talk to me about sleep. Dave and I have
had lots and lots of conversations. He's more
than familiar with my dead horse that I keep
flogging on seat deprivation in the fire service.
But what is the oversight as far as the amount
of rest and recovery you have to get as a pilot?
Yeah, I remember because Dave's done a bit of
my training in the past and he does a great session
on sleep and fatigue there. So for us, you know,
the rules recently for Transport Canada has changed
of how much time off. I think it used to be we
had to have eight hours off shift. I think now
we're close to that 12 hour mark depending on
what type of ops, what type of flying you're
doing and which regs you fall under. But when
you're flying their ambulance, you know, you
might do a few night shifts, a few day shifts
in a row, very similar to how a firefighter shift
work. And when you going on to night shifts off
day shifts, you're still transitioning your body.
So maybe you didn't sleep that day and now you're
going on to a night shift. You don't have any
calls and then something, a call comes in, you
know, around one in the morning. And all of a
sudden, you know, you get a call, okay, you're
going up the coast here. And, you know, for the
time of just being out cold, you know, 20 minutes,
now you're up in the air, pushing dials, flying
this helicopter. It's a, you're at a very critical
point of that flight when you're probably at
the highest risk waking up there. You know, you're
still down, you're not aware there. And then
also if you're flying all night, coming off day
shifts into a night shift and you're flying all
night. You're getting back to base at 6, 7 in
the morning. You haven't slept at all. You can
only imagine how increased the risk is of that
flight now. I know this might be part of what
we just discussed, but when you reflect on all
the tragedies in your industry, are there any
common denominators behind these crashes? That's
a good question. You can read the... TSB reports
there on what happens, but unfortunately, it
seems like a lot of the point goes back to pilot
error, pilot decision making. I think a lot of
flights and a lot of tragedies that happen usually
end up men and women pushing weather. That's
usually what happens when they're pushing weather
and they get themselves unknown at a point where
they should have turned back a bit ago. but they
didn't. And now there is nowhere to turn back
to. So that happens a lot. So yeah, I think it
probably would have to be weather there, James.
You know, obviously mechanical does happen a
fair bit, but the helicopters, the new helicopters,
actually for the most part, you know, when I
was buying the 212, that's an old helicopter.
It's very reliable though. But you know, all
the troubles that I got in, it was mainly the
troubles I put myself in on the helicopter. It
reminds me, I had one of my friends on, um, Dukes,
who's a skydiver and a base jumper. And he was
talking about, you know, there's times where
they climb, you know, for hours to get to the
top of this peak. And he said, something doesn't
feel right. And you gotta, you gotta trust your
gut. He said, but it takes a lot of courage to
turn around and say, no, we're going to walk
back down again. We're not doing the jump. And
I think that's kind of, you know, what you're
talking about too. Like that's the. the ultimate
self -discipline is to be able to say now isn't
the right time. Yeah, you're absolutely right.
I remember the stuff that I used to do, you know,
in my early twenties when I was just starting
pilot and our risks that I'd take for no reason.
And I don't know why in the past, you know, maybe
you're trying to prove something to someone you're
trying to build up your hours. You're trying
to get the job complete for the client. You know,
there's always a lot of pressure from clients
who are hiring you, but now, you know, as a kind
of. had a little bit you know i've been flying
for 15 years now you just don't those risks aren't
worth it anymore um you know the the holes that
i used to land in you know you might be five
feet away from your blade tip you know you just
don't you don't need to do that anymore it's
not worth it so you don't bother doing it man
yeah absolutely well you've talked about obviously
up to this point you know working for agencies
What was it that you started seeing that made
you want to create your own nonprofit to help
people in these communities? Well, I would have
to, you know, even before working with the communities
that we work with now, my uncle, my uncle Paul,
he's a dude that you show on your podcast. He
worked for over four years in the humanitarian
business when he was young. 20s he moved over
to Africa where he never came back and he fell
in love with the humanitarian world working for
World Vision high up in executive levels and
Care USA as well so he'd always been an inspiration
of mine and then I told you earlier I had my
father as an inspiration so I wanted to get into
what my uncle Paul was doing but I loved aviation
I was trying to figure out okay do I maybe go
out and change industries for a little bit. I
tried to get on with the UN for a number of years,
flying for the World Food Program. I got offered
two contracts year after year. But at the same
time, I'd already built relationships and promised
my commitment to the Fighting Fire to another
company in Canada. So I turned those down. And
after that happened, I just had such an itch
because I really wanted to go. fly for the world
food program that i decided okay well maybe just
trying to start my own um non -profit you know
not doing anything to the degree that the un
is doing but it was kind of a way to marry you
know my mentor my dad my mentor my uncle paul
of the two things that they were doing and that's
kind of where helicopter self -boarders start
to grow and start to build a little bit of a
business plan When I say a business plan, maybe
three pages of chicken scratch of things that
we could possibly do. Yeah, so that was kind
of the beginning days of it. When we actually
decided to launch Helicopters Without Borders,
we knew that we wanted to work here in Canada.
I always say when people hear that Helicopters
Out of Borders, you think of international NGO,
and that's what I think a lot of people think
we are. But, you know, we're born and bred right
here in British Columbia, and our projects are
in our backyard looking for ways that we can
honour Indigenous in our backyard, but not just
Indigenous, also people that are just living
in isolation, people that don't have the same
services and care that I have the luxury of living
here in the Lower Mainland, British Columbia.
So firstly, what is the need that you were seeing?
What is missing? What are the deficits in these
communities? Every community is different. You
know, each community seems like they have different
interests, different needs and different ways
that they'd like to partner up with helicopters
or boarders. But I think, you know, in British
Columbia, one or five people live in rural parts.
BC is huge, Canada is huge. So there's a lot
of individuals far from health centers in the
province. And a lot of communities don't have
road access into them. They're only accessible
by air, by boat. So when most people think about
helicopters, they think of helicopters in a healthcare
setting as a last resort. So an air ambulance
responding. When something has already gone wrong,
we helicopters of horrors, we're trying to shift
that model. So we're not so much into that high
acute, that emergency response. But instead,
you know, instead of using aviation for emergencies
only here in BC now, we're using it to reach
communities before the crisis happens. And we
do that in a few different modalities. One is
preventative care, education. and health awareness,
bringing that directly to remote communities,
underserved communities, marginalized communities.
We're trying to address the root cause. And we
believe that's where real change is going to
happen. So this approach that we're working on,
it moves the health care upstream. In the long
term, we hope it's going to reduce avoidable
hospitalizations. It's going to lower the long
-term system costs that we have right now and
hopefully improve quality of life. So rather
than waiting for someone to become critically
ill and flying them out, James, we're flying
care in. And that's just one little way that
we're trying to build healthier communities from
the ground up here in BC. But back to your question,
I know that's a little bit long -winded. For
us, preventative care is what we're trying to
do. And we have to explain to the communities,
a lot of them do want emergency care. They want
a better air ambulance system, but we're not
in that game. So if they want to partner with
us on more of the loan and improve the preventative
side, that's for the communities. Those are the
communities that we partner up with. So what
does the preventative side look like? Are you
flying physicians there to do clinics? What do
you see on the ground itself? Yeah, so how the
actual ops works, depending on what type of services
that a community has requested from us, we'll
usually leave on a Monday beginning of the week.
I was just actually, I got back last night from
a new community that we're partnered up with.
We'll leave usually beginning of the week and
we'll be there for four or five days. And we'll
bring, you know... For this trip, we brought
up our mobile dental clinics. So these are clinics,
they don't have dental infrastructure. They'll
load up in the back of the helicopter. We run
x -ray, the compressor units, ventilation chairs.
They'll go up in the community and we'll set
them up. We'll have a full -fledged dental clinic
up there within an hour. But we do fly physicians
like family doctors a bit, not too, too much
because a lot of MSP or insurance covers that
already. For some of the communities, they're
already having that and we're trying to step
on board with other services, maybe or not. So
that could be mental health. That could be we
do a lot of chronic health disease, so diabetes,
scanning dieticians going into communities. We
do pediatrics, occupational therapy, physiotherapy
there. Yeah, we're kind of trying to build up
that list and slowly gain into. kidney checks
as well. Yeah, so there's a few on the list.
But again, each community has a different request,
a little bit different. And how are you funding
this? Well, I need to get on more of these podcasts,
hopefully, so we can do that. But right now,
James, it's mainly funded through private donors.
We have big funders out of Toronto that have
a very specific interest in remote health care.
So we get pockets of funds from them. We do a
lot of grant writing as well, our grant writing
team. We have a donor who donates all of our
jet fuel and our carbon offsets as well, PetroValue
products. They've been a fantastic partner of
ours from day one. And other than that, you know,
I think a lot of the fundraising comes from relationships,
people that are board of directors who might
introduce us to. Where we find the most success
is from our previous donors who love what we
do. They introduce us to more of their networks
as well. Yeah. So privately, and we don't take
too much public funds that could be changing
here this year from the government. But, you
know, when you take government funding, it comes
with a lot of red tape and a lot of reporting.
And, you know, we're a team of about 10 individuals.
And already as a startup, you know, we're all
running around with our heads cut off. And then
to add a bunch of reporting that goes on to that,
it can be challenging sometimes. But hopefully
we're going to build ourselves up our capacity
so that we can start to look at more government
funding. But on the other side, when you start
to take the government funding too, naturally,
and it's fair enough, they're going to want a
little bit of say in which direction we're going
about what we find with the private donors. They
give us a lot of leash to let us do the good
work and they're going to fund it. If you had
access to all the resources that you needed,
what would the kind of, I know it's going to
be dynamic, what would the ultimate end product
look like? I think we want to get more into these
team -based care flights. So a team of practitioners
who are working directly with a community. to
build a care plan for that community and the
two build it together and you know that could
be a team of chronic health specialists let's
just focus in on diabetes you know so you can
have someone from the kidney check team to the
to the nurses doing the testing but working together
to build this plan and then helicopter zone orders
is flying this team in to these communities on
a more regular basis right now we only have funding
to do about four trips a year to each community
that we serve. We're serving right now with about
10 communities, so almost every single week.
But if we could build up this team -based care
model to go out into the communities on a more
regular basis, maybe once a month so that they
can have these services, I think that would be
the end game. On a geographical side, James is
expanding this across Canada. You know, BC, we
have a lot of isolated communities, but when
you go up to the north and you go further east,
there's the same amount that's happening. There's
a lot of these flying communities, a lot of communities
with only winter roads going into them. And we
believe that, you know, carbon neutral aviation
is a great tool and a toolkit to do that. When
we look at somewhere like Australia, you know,
John Flynn, this fellow almost about 100 years
ago now, he developed a... a charity to service
the most isolated parts of Australia by air called
Royal Flying Doctors, who you've heard of. Today,
Royal Flying Doctors is the world's largest air
medical program. They've got close to 100 helicopters,
and they do preventative care, they do primary
care, they do education. They're a great mentor
to look up to. I think our model is a little
bit different than theirs. In Australia, when
you look at geographics, very similar to Canada
as well. And I think that's a great place that
Canada could look up to where aviation maybe
could play a role in health care here a little
bit more. From the prevention point of view.
When you talk about health care or health here
in America, we are literally three quarters obese
or overweight, our nation. So there is so much
room for improvement to make the nation healthier
and therefore take a huge chunk out of what we
spend on health care and put it into all the
proactive measures. What are some of the common
denominators that you're seeing in some of these
communities that you serve? that if that was
addressed you would have a healthier population
and therefore maybe not such a need to have you
know consistent medical visits yeah and james
you mean specifically like on on food and diet
is what you're talking about yeah food diet community
addiction support you know the the the the elements
that would put them back i mean we were talking
about the indigenous people earlier that they
were you know these were tribes that didn't need
healthcare and you know glucometers and insulin
and you know they were moving well they were
eating well um they had community so not saying
we go back to maybe that level but we have as
a as a um uh god my brain is not working today
um as a generation we've strayed so far from
the ancient wisdom that literally carried you
know humans for millennia up to this point so
Kind of tapping back into that so that we're
forging health again and therefore not having
to lean so heavily on the health side. Yeah.
You know, indigenous communities, you know, they've
been leading solutions for a lot longer than
we've been here. But, you know, today that, you
know, the community governed services that they
practice and culturally grounded care and models
where people aren't forced to choose between
safety and access. But, you know, it's a really
tough subject and one I wish I had more experience
and knowledge in. But, you know, when I look
at it from an outsider, constantly learning about
reconciliation. the effects of colonization,
but you know, a lot of the first nations here,
you know, yeah, they used to live off the lands.
They did a lot better than we know how to do
it. And then they were colonized and they were
told to turn in to white people and follow our
rules and follow our standards. And then, you
know, there became a certain point where Canada,
they said, okay, well, this is wrong. We shouldn't
be doing this. close the residential schools
and you can go back to your traditional ways
but unfortunately a lot of those traditional
ways were now lost and they were forgotten so
a lot of the communities that we partner up with
and have the luxury of going to are kind of caught
in that limbo of you know okay well this is what
we used to do and this is what we've been now
taught for the last couple hundred years And
that's where the issues arise because now they're
left to fend for themselves. And when we talk
about even languages, we were just in the community
yesterday and it's been a long time since I've
heard an elder speak their traditional language.
And it was so refreshing these last two days
where we were to hear two of the elders communicating
in their traditional language. A lot of the communities
are trying to reteach that to their youth, but
even other elders, you know, getting to a point
where there's not many that still speak it. So
those languages are getting lost. Yeah, that's
heartbreaking. It really is. I mean, you know,
there's an element, of course, of what's happened
has happened. And we have to acknowledge that,
too. You can't go back in time and undo all the
damage. But at the same time, you know, how do
we learn from history? How do we try and... put
things back that were broken that you know that
are able to be fixed again and you know how do
we then take the wisdom from you know yesteryear
and apply it with some of the great technology
of today and have a fusion but you know there's
a lot of arrogance in modern society full stop
and you know look i mean look at the cbd and
chiropractic and plant medicine we're finally
going oh you know this seems to work and then
we're you know asking for a thousand studies
rather than going well You know, this literally
lasted for thousands of years. So clearly there's
something to it. Do we need to have, you know,
double blind studies to see if psilocybin is
helpful for mental health? No, we know it is
because it's worked for centuries and centuries.
So, yeah, I think, you know, dropping our egos,
being humble enough to know where our ancestors
screwed up because it wasn't on the generation
that's here right now, mostly. But then finding
that blend between, you know, trying to... put
back as much as we can, but then also, you know,
not stay in the past and move forward with this
new kind of, uh, you know, fusion, like I said,
but if we just pretend that all the bad stuff
didn't happen, then that certainly doesn't make
things better. But then we also can't, you know,
we can't undo what's done. There are cities all
over native American land now. So we've got to
find that middle ground somehow. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. 100 % James. And you don't, A lot of the
communities, you know, living in a location there,
like, I mean, some of the coolest stuff to see
is the resilience that they have and the attitude
that, you know, they're still fighting. A lot
of the communities, they are doing well. I mean,
it's not all, you know, helicopters, outboarders.
We're a charity, obviously, so, you know, sometimes
trying to fix problems, but there's a lot of
great things happening in the communities that
we work with, too, and a lot of learnings that
helicopters, outboarders is taking of how we
behave. how we move around the province there
for our next step. Beautiful. Well, I want to
throw some closing questions at you before I
let you go. Yes. The first one I love to ask,
is there a book or are there books that you love
to recommend? It can be related to our discussion
today or completely unrelated. Yeah. I wish I
read more jams, but, you know, one book. The
Untethered Soul was a book that I read maybe
about 10 years ago and it was kind of a game
changer for me. Just how I think about life and
go about life as an individual and think about
the individuals around me. So I would say that
would be my book that I would recommend if anyone
hasn't read that one. The Untethered Soul. Yeah.
Beautiful. What about television, documentaries,
or films? Well, I was just joking with my partner,
Maya, this morning. Maya is a resident doctor,
and she was just telling me the last thing she
wants to do when she comes home is think anything
about medical, anything about doctor, or watching
a show. But what I did yesterday when I got back
home from my flight, I... crash on the couch
and put on an episode of mayday that's my favorite
show to watch you know on air disasters and true
air disasters and she goes you're weird man so
you know i've always liked mayday i like watching
that uh you know it i think it's relevant for
me in aviation they look at what's what's happened
in the air true stories what went wrong and how
can you correct it and how you be safer next
time has she ever watched the pit that new show
Jane, it's so funny you say that because someone
told me about that show when I was up in community
and that's what brought up the conversation.
I asked her, I said, have you ever seen The Pit?
And she said, I'm not watching any shows after
I come home. We said we watched together, but
maybe not when she's on ER shifts, she said.
Yeah, it's just, it's good because it really
does. a great job of showing a lot of issues
in medicine. It shows, you know, everything from
how busy ERs actually are, you know, this whole
COVID thing when they were screaming about people
being in the hallways and we're like, yeah, they're
always in the hallways. Have you never been to
an ER? They're a nightmare. But, you know, the
violence against nurses and then just really,
really well done, but also technically, like
they have got such good technical advisors that
all the procedures, all the drugs, you know,
the... So defibrillation, all that stuff is right.
So as someone in medicine, when you're watching
it, you're like, oh, okay, good. This is actually
what it looks like. And of course, there's a
slight Hollywood twist to it, but nothing like
what you normally see. So yeah, if she ever feels
like watching something and maybe is on a break,
it is actually worth a watch. Yeah, yeah, no,
definitely. Yeah, she's been in the ER just on
her first few months here on the shifts. Maya
is a special human being and she likes it, but
I think she's missing the interaction with the
people. She feels like you're a bit of a machine
and a puppy mill just getting people in and you've
got to push them out because those EZRs are so
busy, but it's not really how Maya operates.
She wants to be with the individuals, working
with them directly. Yeah, that's understandable.
Well, the next question, is there a person that
you'd recommend to come on this podcast as a
guest to speak to the first responders, military,
and associated professions of the world? I think
a good one would be our other co -founder. My
father's a co -founder of Helicopters Outorders,
but the other one is Adam Oldos. He's a veteran
as well. Adam lives down in... He just moved
from Texas up the East of Canberra, what state
he's in now, but he was another... a brain and
a heart behind this project of Helicopter South
Borders, but you know, he did serve multiple
tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, I believe. In
the past, he's a helicopter pilot as well. Now
he runs his own night flight concepts, training
those type of individuals how to operate at nighttime
in aviation with MBG. You know, so I would recommend
Adam for sure. Yeah, I'd love to. If you're able
to help me connect, I think it would be great
to get along. I will connect you. Yeah, for sure,
Jay. I'll connect you right after this. Beautiful.
Thank you. All right. Well, then the last question
before we make sure everyone knows where to find
Helicopters Without Borders and you, what do
you do to decompress? My partner, Maya, she's
over in Denmark. We've been doing long distance
for about four years now. It's hard for us to
connect with a nine -hour time difference. But
one thing that she's gotten me a little bit better
at over the last few years, James, is just talking
about some of the issues and challenges and the
great things that are happening at work that
maybe I didn't do enough of. And now practicing
that a little bit more and having someone to
just be a selling board has been... You know,
it's been huge. It's been great. And I really
appreciate her for opening up that door for me.
So I guess in short, just talking to someone
rather than letting it build up in your head,
those stories and their thoughts. Brilliant.
Well, for people listening then, firstly, where
can they find Helicopters Without Borders if
they want to support in some way? Yeah, our website's
a great place, you know, helicopterswithoutborders
.org. um on instagram but you know at the same
time like we're still a small organization you'll
see the email up on our website choose an email
that's forwarded directly to my email and i'd
be happy to answer any questions share a little
bit about what we're doing uh and set up a call
um so i think those are the best modes of communication
for us beautiful and any areas on social media
they can find you yeah we're on i think we're
instagram facebook and linkedin um are our channels
right now Beautiful. Well, I want to thank Dave
again for making this connection. And I want
to thank you. It's been such an interesting perspective.
I mean, you having, you know, firstly, this,
this father that was in this industry and then
the fire side and the EMS side, and then you
finding the altruism that you saw in your, your
father and your uncle, and then creating this
amazing organization. It's been a phenomenal
conversation. So I want to thank you so much
for being so generous with your time and coming
on the behind the shield podcast today. Yeah,
thank you, James. Thanks for everything you do
and your past too, man. It was a pleasure to
meet you and I look forward to the next one if
it happens in the near future.