WEBVTT

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As

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always, my name is James Geering, and this week

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it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show,

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helicopter pilot and the founder of Helicopters

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Without Borders, Owen McClung -Sitnam. Now, in

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this conversation, we discuss a host of topics,

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from his journey into aviation, fighting wildland

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fires, EMS, responding to underserved indigenous

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populations, some notable rescues, moral injury.

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positive tribalism, and so much more. Now, before

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we get to this incredible conversation, as I

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say every week, please just take a moment, go

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to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe

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to the show, leave feedback, and leave a rating.

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Every single five -star rating truly does elevate

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this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find. And this is a free library of

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over 1 ,200 episodes now. So all I ask in return

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is that you help share these incredible men and

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women's stories so I can get them to every single

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person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you...

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Owen McClung Sidnam. Enjoy. Well, Owen, I want

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to start by saying two things. Firstly, thank

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you to our mutual friend, Dave Prechera Best,

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for making this introduction. And secondly, I

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want to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield

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podcast today. Yeah, thanks for having me, James.

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Excited to be here. So where on planet Earth

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are we finding you this afternoon? You know,

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so I've been born and raised in British Columbia.

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Here, I have the pleasure. sitting on the unceded

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and traditional territories of Musqueam, Tsleil

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-Waututh and Squamish families, otherwise known

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as Vancouver. I grew up over on a little island

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off the coast called Bowen Island and been living

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here for the last few years but prior to that

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was up in northern parts of Canada and all around

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Canada where my work took me. Well, let's start

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at the very beginning of your timeline then.

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Tell me where you were born and tell me a little

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bit about your family dynamic, what your parents

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did, how many siblings. Yeah, sure. So I was

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born over in North Vancouver, here in British

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Columbia. I'm pretty sure you're familiar with

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Canada. I know you're down in the States though,

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I believe. Yeah, somewhat. More so on the East

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Coast. I went to Montreal and Toronto, but I

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haven't been on the West Coast. Yeah, right on.

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Yeah, and then we moved over. I was four years

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old. I had two incredible parents, Danny and

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Laura, otherwise known as Dad and Mom. And they

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moved over to Bowen Island, which is a little

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community of about 3 ,000 people when I was a

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youngster and grew up in this really tight -knit

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community over there. You know everyone's face.

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I'm not great with names, but you definitely

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know everyone's face around the island. You kind

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of grow up in this extended family there. Dad

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was my inspiration to get into aviation. When

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he was my age, my dad was a bush pilot, a helicopter

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pilot. He kind of had a very similar career to

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my start, too. He was fighting fires down the

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coast, as well as the inland and northern parts

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of Canada. And mom, she had a big job of taking

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care of me and my sister, Cora Rose, when we

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were kids growing up. So my sister Cora, she's

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two years older than me. She's also in the charity

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sector. She does major gift fundraising for Children's

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Hospital here in the Lower Mainland. And yeah,

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that's a little small background of my upbringing

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there, James, yeah. What is your ethnic heritage?

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Because McClung sounds very Scottish to me, but

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then Sitnam reminds me of Thailand. So it's a

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very interesting last name you've got. Yeah,

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no, I think I have some heritage from all over

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the place, it seems like. So, you know, mom's

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side, Irish and Scottish. Mom's American herself

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and Canadian now. On my father's side there from

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Trinidad and Italy. So I got kind of the best

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of east and west there. What was it that sent

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your father into the world of piloting in the

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first place? My dad has a great story when he

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was young. He was working as a chef at the very

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first K, which is a steakhouse now, a big steakhouse

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chain in Canada. And he was working as a chef

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there when he was 18, 19. A fellow came in with

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a helicopter and landed in the backyard. His

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clients didn't show up, so he asked my dad if

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he wanted to go for a rip. My dad said yeah,

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and the way that my dad explains it, he never

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looked back after that. He became a helicopter

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pilot and started his journey there. My dad runs

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a company, Helijet International, here in Vancouver.

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He's just always been... around, you know, taking

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me out to the helicopter since I was a little

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kid and seeing the organization and, you know,

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going through high school there. I was a little

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bit of a punk and I was having a hard time finishing

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high school and all my friends were signing up

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for university and I kind of just skimmed past

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grade 12 there. I was in no need or desire to

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go to university just because I just kind of

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struggled a bit through high school. And, you

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know, dad said, you know, you always loved helicopters.

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He goes, what about going to get your helicopter

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license? Mom and dad gave me a loan to go and

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do that. I went out and same thing with me. I

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just fell in love with it. And I never looked

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back. And then I ended up getting my commercial

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license, moving up north of Canada and starting

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to build my hours. Obviously, we're going to

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get to your time, you know, in the helicopter.

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But what are some of the... the most epic stories

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of your father's career that you've heard you

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know from that timeline well maybe some of them

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i can't share james publicly um some of dad's

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good stories that he had you know he i always

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remember one story that he he told me he was

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fueling up a helicopter i think up near squamish

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uh near whistler and it was right on the uh i

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believe he was in his old gazelle And he was

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fueling up a helicopter on the side of the road

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near this train track. And he had the helicopter

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on one side of the train track and the fuel cache

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on the other side. So you can kind of get an

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idea of where the story is going. We had the

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hose lined up over to his helicopter. And he

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heard some horns blowing down the ways. And next

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thing you knew, the train was coming and he still

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had the hose over the railroad track. I think

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just to make it tight, he was able to run back

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from the helicopter and get the hose passed there

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before my existence expired in his as well, I

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guess. We have these, I've never used them in

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real life, but these blocks that are supposed

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to allow you to drive over a fire hose without

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breaking it. And I remember when early in my

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career, I saw this picture and I don't know who

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was behind it, but they had a... A hose line

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over a railroad track and they'd put those blocks

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on the tracks like the train was just going to

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be able to jump over them. So that's the visual

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I get when you tell me that story. I'll need

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to pass that on to them for next time for sure.

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What about sports and exercise? What were you

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playing and doing when you were a young boy through

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the school ages? I loved baseball, James. I always

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played baseball as a youngster growing up on

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Bowen Island, that small community I was telling

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you about. That was our go -to. You know, I think

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a lot of city folks, you have a lot more options

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of what to do as a kid. But for me and the young

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homies, we would drift down to the baseball park.

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And, you know, our team, I always remember our

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team was number one every single year when we

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were young all the way until we were teenagers.

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And finally, the districts, because Bowen Island,

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we had our own team and we always played the

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city teams there. and they ended up splitting

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up our Bowen League just because we were dominating

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every single year, and they mixed us in with

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the city teams. But, yeah, I always loved baseball,

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and I still play in a beer league over on Bowen

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Highlands, still with some mates as well, whatever

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games I can make over in the season. And I played

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a bit of rugby. Once I got out of high school,

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I enjoyed rugby, played second row. I've never

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been the most athletic individual. I was kind

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of always that average player, but I always loved

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doing it. And now, yeah, so as I said, baseball

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is probably the only team sport I do. And I like

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to bike ride with dad, go to the gym, do a class.

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That's kind of it, yeah. You mentioned about

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feeling a little wayward in high school. Was

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there anything on your mind as far as career

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aspirations then, or were you completely kind

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of clueless at that point? I was probably pretty

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clueless, James, until... Until I figured out

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I wasn't going to become a professional baseball

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player, that was not going to pan out as I hoped.

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I was probably in grade 11 or 12, I started to

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think more so in aviation, having that chat with

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my dad that I'd maybe go down that route. I always

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loved teaching though. You know, I wasn't teaching

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at that point, but I loved aspect and I got along

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well with some of my teachers specifically. Mr.

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Holmes, my woodworking teacher, and I thought

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maybe that would be a career path for me, maybe

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become a teacher down the line. That was probably

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the only thing that I kind of thought about as

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a youngster, maybe going that way. What about

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during your earlier life? Did you have any exposure

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or understanding of some of these underserved

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communities that didn't have the resources that

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the city, for example, has a luxury of? Honestly,

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James, no. I didn't know. I wasn't educated on

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it. For here in Canada, reconciliation is not

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a new thing, but it's becoming more and more

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a realization of what's happening in some of

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our communities and what's happening in some

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of our population and how life is in our backyard.

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So for me, it wasn't until really getting into

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helicopters of wars when I started to see firsthand

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that fire started to grow more and more that

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this is something that I want to do, that more

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community and social -based work. But not so

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much when I was younger, no. What about the entry

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to the world of piloting? You have your father.

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Obviously, he's a great pilot. He's taken you

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under his wing. What was your aptitude at the

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beginning? Did you take to it pretty well or

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were you struggling? So I struggled through high

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school, but it was kind of neat to see. I think

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for anyone, you know, when you find something

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that you're kind of passionate about and you

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enjoy, you know, my marks in aviation school

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were the best marks that I'd ever seen through

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all elementary and high school there. It kind

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of just clicked for me, aviation, piloting. You

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know, I enjoyed it. I love working with my hands

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and feet. The one class that I did enjoy in high

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school was mathematics and physics. I'm not saying

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I was a connoisseur or great at those, but I

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always did enjoy going to those classes. And

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then within aviation, you know, it's pretty basic

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math and physics that you got to know in there.

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But either way, it was something that I was enjoying

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there. you know, putting the puzzle pieces together.

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And furthermore, when I started to upgrade my

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licenses and get into the IFR, which is instrument

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flight rules, so more so your head's inside the

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cockpit than outside to navigate. That's where

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I really started to enjoy it too, because, you

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know, you might be flying in the clouds and you're

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turning dials and punching out frequencies and

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discussing with your co -pilot there. pulling

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levers, pressing handles, and then all of a sudden

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you pop out and you're 200 feet above a runway

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and you're like, whoa, the system works. And

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I love that. It kind of felt like a little bit

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of a game of chess just to get there. So which

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role did you find yourself first in when you

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actually got your license? So when I first got

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my license, I went on a road trip up to Northern

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Canada. A lot of drivers, pilots in there. The

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beginning parts of their careers will go up in

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Canada into more of the bush work and get that

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VFR experience, which is the visual flight rules.

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And that's what I did. So, you know, I traveled

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for about a year trying to even just find a placement

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with a company. Up in the north, I got on with

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a company called Vancouver Island Helicopters

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at the time. Really great experience. I wasn't

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flying, but, you know, more just taking out the

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garbages and shoveling snow. trying to just prove

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myself to them for more of a character reference.

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I got good experience working around helicopters,

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fueling up the helicopters in some mines that

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I was up near the panhandle of Alaska, Gloucreek.

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But it was probably going to be, they told me,

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and they were transparent, they said it was probably

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going to be about five years until you actually

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get in the cockpit. So I started looking around

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and then I got referred to another company called

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Remote Helicopters in northern Alberta. And they

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had just previously laid off a pilot and they

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needed a new pilot to do a pipeline patrol. So

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it was just really right place, right time, James,

00:14:54.779 --> 00:14:56.940
because I think the stat when I was going through

00:14:56.940 --> 00:14:59.940
school, I remember hearing it was like five to

00:14:59.940 --> 00:15:03.620
10 % of helicopter pilots that get their commercial

00:15:03.620 --> 00:15:06.820
license actually go through with it and find

00:15:06.820 --> 00:15:09.879
a job and the rest end up having to leave the

00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:13.220
industry just because there's so little jobs

00:15:13.220 --> 00:15:15.970
out there. So I was one of those very few folks

00:15:15.970 --> 00:15:17.649
that found a company that would get it going.

00:15:17.769 --> 00:15:19.830
And what I started doing was this pipeline patrol.

00:15:21.049 --> 00:15:23.750
And my captain at the time was Brandon Dewick,

00:15:23.769 --> 00:15:26.169
who's a good friend of mine to this day. And

00:15:26.169 --> 00:15:27.830
he kind of trained me for the first couple of

00:15:27.830 --> 00:15:30.610
years doing this pipeline patrol. And after that's

00:15:30.610 --> 00:15:33.570
when we started to get into more fires. In aviation,

00:15:33.649 --> 00:15:35.289
you work your way up, you know, with some of

00:15:35.289 --> 00:15:37.929
those low -hanging fruit jobs, maybe the less

00:15:37.929 --> 00:15:42.059
technical jobs. work your way up to more technical

00:15:42.059 --> 00:15:45.139
roles, maybe more technical helicopters there.

00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:49.039
What is Pipeline Patrol? What does that entail?

00:15:50.899 --> 00:15:53.799
At the time, I didn't even really know myself.

00:15:54.019 --> 00:15:58.179
I just wanted to fly the helicopter. I've heard

00:15:58.179 --> 00:15:59.879
of Core Patrol, but I think that's different.

00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:03.600
Yeah. So we had an infrared camera on the bottom

00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:06.139
of the helicopter. And you're looking, you follow

00:16:06.139 --> 00:16:09.440
a pipeline. I think it was for... having a pipelines

00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:12.039
up there and you follow a pipeline you're looking

00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:15.539
for any leaks any cracks any abnormal activity

00:16:15.539 --> 00:16:17.620
happening along the pipeline because that you

00:16:17.620 --> 00:16:19.799
know they had thousands of square kilometers

00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:22.100
that their pipelines run up in northern alberta

00:16:22.100 --> 00:16:25.159
here they use aviation they use helicopters to

00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:27.159
be kind of the eyes and ears from the sky and

00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:29.200
then we report that back to the oil and gas company

00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:32.779
if there's any um anything of interest that we

00:16:32.779 --> 00:16:36.840
think they should look at yeah the What would

00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:39.039
it be? Third fire department I worked for when

00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:41.899
I first went through the orientation. And then

00:16:41.899 --> 00:16:44.440
we were given our assignments as far as a station.

00:16:44.580 --> 00:16:49.139
And he was the captain at the time, was given

00:16:49.139 --> 00:16:51.580
out the assignments. And then he goes, all right,

00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:54.539
the next station. He said, you see this map here?

00:16:55.019 --> 00:16:57.830
He said, well. If we have an incident at this

00:16:57.830 --> 00:17:00.490
station, you guys won't even be alive anymore.

00:17:00.610 --> 00:17:02.750
So the next station will be coming to respond

00:17:02.750 --> 00:17:05.609
because we had a pipeline going through Orange

00:17:05.609 --> 00:17:08.190
County, Orlando. And then right in that first

00:17:08.190 --> 00:17:11.190
year was also a fertilizer factory. And for a

00:17:11.190 --> 00:17:14.089
lot of people, they know that fossil fuels and

00:17:14.089 --> 00:17:18.089
fertilizers tend to go bang if there's a spark.

00:17:18.410 --> 00:17:21.430
So I was at the station where we were right next

00:17:21.430 --> 00:17:23.109
to the pipeline and God forbid there'd been an

00:17:23.109 --> 00:17:25.700
issue. All of the firefighters have been vaporized,

00:17:25.740 --> 00:17:28.660
basically. So yeah, I'm glad I don't work there

00:17:28.660 --> 00:17:34.779
anymore. No kidding. So you mentioned wildfires

00:17:34.779 --> 00:17:37.500
then. So kind of walk me through the journey

00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:40.599
to that position. And what does that even entail

00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:44.799
through a pilot size? Yeah, there's a few different

00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:51.569
avenues in forestry that you can go in. uh as

00:17:51.569 --> 00:17:53.769
a helicopter pilot and you know for the most

00:17:53.769 --> 00:17:55.670
part i'll just talk on helicopters rather than

00:17:55.670 --> 00:17:57.930
fix one because i don't have any experience on

00:17:57.930 --> 00:18:01.750
the airplane side but for me how it started was

00:18:01.750 --> 00:18:04.789
that's that infrared camera that i told you about

00:18:04.789 --> 00:18:09.650
the first job that i had on a fire was we'd head

00:18:09.650 --> 00:18:13.130
out to the fire i was operating the camera and

00:18:13.130 --> 00:18:15.849
once the fire has passed and for the most part

00:18:15.849 --> 00:18:18.660
for the the men and women on the ground And the

00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:21.680
other aviation assets, once they've somewhat

00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:25.099
got the fire almost extinguished, they'll bring

00:18:25.099 --> 00:18:27.259
this helicopter in. Our helicopter is a small

00:18:27.259 --> 00:18:30.960
one. And we grid the entire fire back and forth

00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:33.740
with this camera looking for hot spots. Anything

00:18:33.740 --> 00:18:37.319
that might potentially re -spark the fire. Once

00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:39.119
we find those hot spots, we take those coordinates,

00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:42.140
give them back. That was my first introduction

00:18:42.140 --> 00:18:48.180
to wildfires. From there, the next season. My

00:18:48.180 --> 00:18:51.660
boss, Kevin Hickley, you know, he kind of gave

00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:53.900
me a little bit more leash and he let me captain

00:18:53.900 --> 00:18:56.200
the helicopter out on some of these fires. And

00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:59.119
then I would have my own camera operator. And

00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:01.579
then also we would move up to the next step,

00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:04.400
which is flying around the fire bosses. So we'd

00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:06.880
pick them up in our helicopter. We'd fly the

00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:08.720
fire boss, you know, some days you just eight

00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:11.440
hours of just circling the fire from a high altitude

00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:14.400
bird dogging. And that fire boss that's in the

00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:17.680
helicopter sitting beside me, he or she. is giving

00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:19.779
the direction to all the other aviation assets

00:19:19.779 --> 00:19:21.839
that are down there actually on the fire suppression,

00:19:22.180 --> 00:19:25.339
the ones that are dumping the water. And then

00:19:25.339 --> 00:19:27.380
also the crews on the ground giving direction

00:19:27.380 --> 00:19:31.140
there. I did that for about two years. And then

00:19:31.140 --> 00:19:34.519
the next step up was when I get into the A -star

00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:37.599
was initial attack. And that's where things kind

00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:39.859
of get a little bit more fun, you know, in the

00:19:39.859 --> 00:19:41.859
field, because now you're actually doing the

00:19:41.859 --> 00:19:45.240
fire suppression. So I would go up north, you

00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:47.960
know, from... May to October every year and get

00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:50.140
a helicopter and you kind of say goodbye to management

00:19:50.140 --> 00:19:52.240
and you get shipped out somewhere in Canada to

00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:54.940
go and chase the fires. It's usually yourself,

00:19:55.240 --> 00:20:00.180
an engineer and three or four firefighters on

00:20:00.180 --> 00:20:03.339
this initial attack and we'll get staged anywhere.

00:20:03.660 --> 00:20:06.180
I was primarily based in Alberta from Slave Lake

00:20:06.180 --> 00:20:09.299
so we travel around Alberta and we get stationed

00:20:09.299 --> 00:20:11.839
out. Somewhere on the boonies for the day, we'd

00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:13.799
fly out there. That'd be our staging point. And

00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:15.680
on initial attack, you're just waiting for the

00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:17.880
call. So they have all these different helicopter

00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:21.539
assets around Alberta. And most provinces do

00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:25.200
a similar process. And as soon as a lightning

00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.200
strike might happen, as soon as someone reports

00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:29.480
a fire, you get the call and you're the first

00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:32.000
one on the fire. You'll get to the fire. You'll

00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:35.359
do a few laps. The firefighters will take its

00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:37.440
measurements and specifics there and relay them

00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:41.349
back to base. We'll drop off the boys as close

00:20:41.349 --> 00:20:44.690
as we can get to the fire. Sometimes they have

00:20:44.690 --> 00:20:47.269
pretty long hikes or maybe you'll do an over

00:20:47.269 --> 00:20:50.349
exit, get them a little bit closer. They'll hit

00:20:50.349 --> 00:20:53.109
the fire from the ground. And then at that point,

00:20:53.130 --> 00:20:55.549
I'll throw the belly bucket on and a long line

00:20:55.549 --> 00:20:58.150
on. And then I'll fight it from the air with

00:20:58.150 --> 00:21:01.250
constant radio communication from air to ground.

00:21:01.309 --> 00:21:04.089
Let me know where they want me to hit the fire

00:21:04.089 --> 00:21:07.740
exactly until we extinguish it. In a lot of cases,

00:21:07.779 --> 00:21:09.700
and I've found it got worse and worse every year,

00:21:09.819 --> 00:21:12.180
summer's got hotter, we've got to call in more

00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:14.480
assets, some more helicopters to call in the

00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:16.660
air tankers there if the fire does take off and

00:21:16.660 --> 00:21:21.099
we can't get it under control. We've seen some

00:21:21.099 --> 00:21:23.359
pretty funny videos over the last few years of

00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:26.099
where some of these helicopters are getting their

00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:30.140
water source from. People on the California mountains

00:21:30.140 --> 00:21:32.579
where their pool is suddenly plunged. Where are

00:21:32.579 --> 00:21:34.259
some of the most unusual places you've found

00:21:34.259 --> 00:21:38.799
water? Yeah, I know there are some good videos.

00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:46.700
I remember this one time I was in the 212 and

00:21:46.700 --> 00:21:51.319
we got dispatched to a fire right beside these

00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:57.960
folks' house. And they had a big kind of tailoring

00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:02.259
pond. This looked like a man -made lake right

00:22:02.259 --> 00:22:04.559
beside the house and the fire was right beside

00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:07.019
it. So I was like... Perfect. You know, I'm just

00:22:07.019 --> 00:22:08.680
going to, you don't even have to do a circuit.

00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:11.619
I can just go pick up, drop, pick up, drop. Well,

00:22:11.660 --> 00:22:13.259
the time when you're firing fire, you can be,

00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:15.819
you know, miles, you might be 10 minutes, 15

00:22:15.819 --> 00:22:18.119
minutes from your closest water source. I had

00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:21.740
it right there. So I went in and started just

00:22:21.740 --> 00:22:24.859
dumping water in the fire out of this pond and

00:22:24.859 --> 00:22:29.319
all the fire trucks and police finally showed

00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:32.910
up there. And then this one. dude underneath

00:22:32.910 --> 00:22:37.170
my helicopter just comes out there I could see

00:22:37.170 --> 00:22:40.170
him waving my hands at me from down below and

00:22:40.170 --> 00:22:42.170
he's grabbing his hair you know pulling his eyeballs

00:22:42.170 --> 00:22:44.890
out it looked like freaking out and I didn't

00:22:44.890 --> 00:22:46.690
know what was going on I just kept on going about

00:22:46.690 --> 00:22:52.049
my business and and then finally dispatch called

00:22:52.049 --> 00:22:54.730
me on the radio they said hey Owen like you got

00:22:54.730 --> 00:22:57.549
to stop pulling out of that pond so what are

00:22:57.549 --> 00:22:59.269
you talking about their house is about to light

00:22:59.269 --> 00:23:02.259
on fire the guy just apparently spent a million

00:23:02.259 --> 00:23:06.700
dollars filling it with trout that pond there

00:23:06.700 --> 00:23:09.440
and that's his main fishing resource that you're

00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:11.859
pulling it out of and then the firefighter said

00:23:11.859 --> 00:23:14.119
they had like hundreds of trout all over the

00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:17.880
fire so i think i uh obviously i had to go and

00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:21.380
look for a different spot there but they ate

00:23:21.380 --> 00:23:27.940
well that night yeah but otherwise you know you

00:23:27.940 --> 00:23:30.709
know i don't have any like really uh fascinating

00:23:30.709 --> 00:23:32.569
spots you know sometimes when you're pulling

00:23:32.569 --> 00:23:35.869
out of a fast flowing river that can be a little

00:23:35.869 --> 00:23:37.630
bit challenging because you'll find yourself

00:23:37.630 --> 00:23:39.529
you know as soon as you put the bucket in to

00:23:39.529 --> 00:23:42.009
fill it up the river is going to pull the bucket

00:23:42.009 --> 00:23:44.690
down so you can feel it pulls the helicopter

00:23:44.690 --> 00:23:47.650
so you kind of got to time it so you got to follow

00:23:47.650 --> 00:23:50.690
the river's flow a little bit with your bucket

00:23:50.690 --> 00:23:53.289
to pull it up and those the rivers the fast moving

00:23:53.289 --> 00:23:56.230
rivers can be a little bit more challenging but

00:23:56.230 --> 00:23:59.670
on the other side you know in Alberta There's

00:23:59.670 --> 00:24:01.650
a lot of marshes, so you can't really get your

00:24:01.650 --> 00:24:03.490
bucket in full. You might only get a couple feet,

00:24:03.710 --> 00:24:05.529
and that's when the bucket usually gets ripped

00:24:05.529 --> 00:24:07.269
on a stick or something like that. Pulling it

00:24:07.269 --> 00:24:08.910
up can be a little more challenging. But the

00:24:08.910 --> 00:24:10.869
most fun spots is when you don't have a water

00:24:10.869 --> 00:24:13.650
source at all. They'll put in these pumpkins,

00:24:13.849 --> 00:24:21.329
these big fabric pools, and they'll fill up these

00:24:21.329 --> 00:24:25.230
pools with water from one of those lower streams,

00:24:25.349 --> 00:24:27.190
and then you've got to put the bucket into these

00:24:27.190 --> 00:24:30.809
big pools. pick it up and go and i've never been

00:24:30.809 --> 00:24:34.109
a great precision long liner but that was always

00:24:34.109 --> 00:24:36.009
fun because you got to be very specific where

00:24:36.009 --> 00:24:39.910
you're dropping the bucket into yeah i remember

00:24:39.910 --> 00:24:41.630
hearing a story i don't know if it's an urban

00:24:41.630 --> 00:24:44.730
legend or if it's actually true that the body

00:24:44.730 --> 00:24:47.670
of a scuba diver was found at a wildfire once

00:24:47.670 --> 00:24:49.809
and then they figured out supposedly that he

00:24:49.809 --> 00:24:53.250
was in a body of water when it was you know scooped

00:24:53.250 --> 00:24:55.750
by an aircraft and then dropped on the fire but

00:24:55.750 --> 00:24:58.150
i don't know If that ended up just being an urban

00:24:58.150 --> 00:24:59.869
legend, is this something that you've heard of?

00:25:00.190 --> 00:25:04.190
I have heard that story too, James. Again, I

00:25:04.190 --> 00:25:06.529
don't know if there's truth, but I remember hearing

00:25:06.529 --> 00:25:08.990
that as well. Yeah, that someone got scooped

00:25:08.990 --> 00:25:12.589
up by one of the tankers potentially. Yeah, that'd

00:25:12.589 --> 00:25:15.569
be a shitty way to go. Yeah, that's not how I

00:25:15.569 --> 00:25:20.509
want to go out. No. No. Well, you talked about

00:25:20.509 --> 00:25:24.470
the higher frequency of needing more resources.

00:25:24.990 --> 00:25:27.109
In this time that you've been doing this position,

00:25:27.450 --> 00:25:30.950
what has been your observation of the frequency

00:25:30.950 --> 00:25:33.329
and intensity of these wildfires? Because a lot

00:25:33.329 --> 00:25:36.470
of people in the wildland community seem to say,

00:25:36.509 --> 00:25:40.130
no, no, no, this global warming thing, it's a

00:25:40.130 --> 00:25:41.950
thing because the fires are getting more and

00:25:41.950 --> 00:25:43.509
more and more and the seasons are getting longer

00:25:43.509 --> 00:25:48.430
and longer and longer. Yeah, yeah. I definitely

00:25:48.430 --> 00:25:51.630
saw that. I fought fires for about 10 years total.

00:25:54.990 --> 00:25:58.930
And it seemed like throughout the years, I feel

00:25:58.930 --> 00:26:01.150
like every couple of years you have a pretty

00:26:01.150 --> 00:26:04.390
blazing fire season where you just feel defeated

00:26:04.390 --> 00:26:07.890
and you didn't do anything. You didn't put out,

00:26:07.910 --> 00:26:10.150
you didn't extinguish anything. For the most

00:26:10.150 --> 00:26:12.430
part, I find fighting fires, when you have those

00:26:12.430 --> 00:26:16.809
heavy fire seasons, helicopters, guys and girls

00:26:16.809 --> 00:26:19.150
on the ground, we're not putting out the fires.

00:26:19.309 --> 00:26:21.089
The only thing that's putting out the fires is

00:26:21.089 --> 00:26:24.359
Mother Nature when the fall comes. when the rain

00:26:24.359 --> 00:26:28.900
comes. That started happening a lot, you know,

00:26:28.920 --> 00:26:31.099
as I was fighting fires and feeling that way.

00:26:31.140 --> 00:26:36.559
We get out to, you know, a couple hundred thousand

00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:40.119
hectare fire and you look at it and you're just

00:26:40.119 --> 00:26:42.319
like, where do you start? You know, it takes

00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:44.980
you 30 minutes to fly the length of the fire

00:26:44.980 --> 00:26:48.960
and it's blazing and here I am carrying 270 gallons

00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:53.910
of water on time before I even... Before the

00:26:53.910 --> 00:26:57.390
water hits the ground, it's evaporated. And I

00:26:57.390 --> 00:27:02.009
think, you know, for us helicopters, we don't

00:27:02.009 --> 00:27:04.769
have the same capacity as some of the large tankers,

00:27:04.789 --> 00:27:07.910
but our main job is just to increase the humidity

00:27:07.910 --> 00:27:11.009
around a fire so it just doesn't spread as quickly.

00:27:11.349 --> 00:27:13.250
When it gets to that size of fire, we're not

00:27:13.250 --> 00:27:15.809
putting it out. It's not going to happen, but

00:27:15.809 --> 00:27:18.890
maybe we can increase the humidity around it

00:27:18.890 --> 00:27:20.869
so it just doesn't grow as quickly, or maybe

00:27:20.869 --> 00:27:24.160
we can try it. save some assets, some structures

00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:27.960
that are around it as well. But I remember my

00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:29.960
last few years of putting fires, we just kind

00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:32.180
of started thinking, why are we here? You know,

00:27:32.180 --> 00:27:35.140
the province is spending millions and millions

00:27:35.140 --> 00:27:39.220
a day on this fire alone with all the assets

00:27:39.220 --> 00:27:41.779
hitting it. And it's only doubling in size each

00:27:41.779 --> 00:27:44.119
day. And that's, you know, sometimes that's a

00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:50.519
tough, tough realization. One of the things that

00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:53.500
I hear a lot of the wildland community say is

00:27:53.500 --> 00:27:58.579
also the opposition to prescribed burns because

00:27:58.579 --> 00:28:01.200
of the smoke in the town or the city or whatever

00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:03.880
it is. But then you think, well, what is the

00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:06.960
impact on the air quality when you have a raging

00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:09.779
fire? I mean, surely it's better to do that.

00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:11.559
And then the other thing from there, safety is

00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:15.059
the... Some of the permits that people have been

00:28:15.059 --> 00:28:17.220
allowed to build in these places are so remote

00:28:17.220 --> 00:28:19.640
that are now, you know, taking all these resources

00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:21.880
to save this one family because they're, you

00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:23.359
know, in this certain area that maybe should

00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:25.819
be just deemed as, you know, wildland only. So,

00:28:25.819 --> 00:28:28.039
you know, it sounds like they're like same with

00:28:28.039 --> 00:28:29.440
mine and the municipal side. You know, there

00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:32.500
are a lot of answers to these problems, even

00:28:32.500 --> 00:28:35.900
with the Jason Ramos talking about the shelters.

00:28:36.380 --> 00:28:38.880
You know, our community were kind of led to believe

00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:40.759
that if there's a turnover, the shelter will

00:28:40.759 --> 00:28:43.460
save you. You know, you look at the sciences,

00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:47.079
it's not most likely. And now that becomes kind

00:28:47.079 --> 00:28:51.079
of like they talk about with our gear. The better

00:28:51.079 --> 00:28:53.460
the quality of gear, the deeper into the fire

00:28:53.460 --> 00:28:55.779
we could go, the more dangerous it is. It's the

00:28:55.779 --> 00:28:57.380
same with the shelters. If you believe that a

00:28:57.380 --> 00:28:59.359
shelter is going to save you, you're going to

00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:01.880
put human beings in an area that maybe they shouldn't

00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:03.960
have been there in the first place. So when you

00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:06.759
listen to the voices of that community, they're

00:29:06.759 --> 00:29:09.980
all saying the same thing. Allow, you know, aggressive

00:29:09.980 --> 00:29:12.539
prescribed burns to address the fuel in the first

00:29:12.539 --> 00:29:14.779
place. You know, make sure people aren't building

00:29:14.779 --> 00:29:16.720
where they just, you know, it's going to be so

00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:19.599
dangerous for them. And then protecting the urban

00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:22.599
interface, clearing the brush. on the edge of

00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:24.799
where the houses are i mean that preventative

00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:27.359
side would be a lot more effective than this

00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:29.880
kind of reactive we've got a fire now we're gonna

00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:32.380
you know drop humans in with shovels and and

00:29:32.380 --> 00:29:35.279
picks and and hope together they can dig their

00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:37.900
way out of this you know hundred thousand acre

00:29:37.900 --> 00:29:42.720
monster 100 james like you kind of nailed it

00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:45.920
there man and like there's it's a lot to do that

00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:48.359
that preventative side but you know you see it

00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:52.500
in a lot of communities that are fire zones where

00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:54.519
the community, you know, they'll brush down any

00:29:54.519 --> 00:29:57.539
brush for the whole perimeter of the community.

00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:01.240
So at least you have this fire guard for when

00:30:01.240 --> 00:30:03.319
a fire does start or a brush fire does start

00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:05.460
that it's not getting right into the community.

00:30:05.960 --> 00:30:08.579
And, you know, Slave Lake, where I was working,

00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:12.579
you know, for the start of my career, my 20s,

00:30:12.579 --> 00:30:15.940
you know, half that town burnt down in a fire.

00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:19.160
So, you know, it's pretty sensitive. subject

00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:20.940
for them and they're doing a lot of prevention

00:30:20.940 --> 00:30:25.019
but every single year it seems like there's a

00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:28.480
new some new sort of pressure on another community

00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:30.599
that's either getting burned down or partly burned

00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:35.339
down there you know these fires are these fires

00:30:35.339 --> 00:30:37.099
are massive and there's so many of them like

00:30:37.099 --> 00:30:38.759
you know in one province alone you might have

00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:42.299
a few hundred fires you know either under control

00:30:42.299 --> 00:30:44.720
to out of control burning in a single season

00:30:45.609 --> 00:30:48.769
And I find each province fights fires a little

00:30:48.769 --> 00:30:52.190
bit differently here in Canada. You know, in

00:30:52.190 --> 00:30:55.589
BC and Alberta, we tend to hit and throw a lot

00:30:55.589 --> 00:30:58.710
of resources for any fire that's out there. Sometimes

00:30:58.710 --> 00:31:00.769
I wonder if it's a little bit political and the

00:31:00.769 --> 00:31:03.730
public, you know, if the province isn't seen

00:31:03.730 --> 00:31:05.690
doing something about it, they get a lot of backlash.

00:31:05.809 --> 00:31:08.130
But when you go up to the Northwest Territories

00:31:08.130 --> 00:31:11.390
or Ontario, they tend to have a fire that starts

00:31:11.390 --> 00:31:15.579
off unless there's no structures. there's no

00:31:15.579 --> 00:31:17.819
pressure towards a community. They just let it

00:31:17.819 --> 00:31:20.799
burn. And I kind of feel like that's a better

00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:22.900
model. You know, when a fire will burn, the amount

00:31:22.900 --> 00:31:24.680
of carbon that comes out of it, there's a lot

00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:26.740
of great growth that will happen from that fire

00:31:26.740 --> 00:31:31.900
afterwards, initially. So, you know, I just,

00:31:31.940 --> 00:31:33.579
I think, you know, it depends on the communities,

00:31:33.619 --> 00:31:35.519
depends on the province, how they elect to fight

00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:37.680
the fires. But everyone's a little bit different,

00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:39.740
I noticed, province to province, from east to

00:31:39.740 --> 00:31:44.349
west of Canada. Have you ever heard anyone discuss

00:31:44.349 --> 00:31:47.250
how the First Nation people used to deal with

00:31:47.250 --> 00:31:50.569
wildland fires before this kind of Western development?

00:31:53.369 --> 00:31:59.470
No, not really, James. But I would say the majority

00:31:59.470 --> 00:32:04.140
of our firefighters in Alberta are... indigenous

00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:06.259
populations that are going out there you know

00:32:06.259 --> 00:32:08.200
they've been fighting fires longer than any of

00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:10.619
us have you know and they have the best idea

00:32:10.619 --> 00:32:12.079
to it and that's why they're still out there

00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:16.160
today doing it but no i i'm not too sure you

00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:17.380
know how they might have done it differently

00:32:17.380 --> 00:32:20.839
in the past i mean aviation obviously is now

00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:25.220
a huge part of fighting fires a lot of time when

00:32:25.220 --> 00:32:27.839
you move up onto a certain category of helicopter

00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:31.380
most you know the first couple hours of your

00:32:31.380 --> 00:32:34.579
morning is just moving firefighters out to the

00:32:34.579 --> 00:32:37.619
fire and from the camp and then then you throw

00:32:37.619 --> 00:32:39.940
on the bucket and you go and rip a few buckets

00:32:39.940 --> 00:32:41.579
throughout the day on the fire and then you bring

00:32:41.579 --> 00:32:43.259
them back at the end of the night or otherwise

00:32:43.259 --> 00:32:46.799
now that we can get to fires a lot quicker is

00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:48.799
that why we're fighting them now rather than

00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:51.819
just letting them burn things i'm not too too

00:32:51.819 --> 00:32:55.819
sure on yeah no interesting yeah yeah what about

00:32:55.819 --> 00:32:58.480
the ems side then when did you start flying those

00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:06.680
I started flying those when I was 21 years old.

00:33:06.740 --> 00:33:10.000
I started to fly EMS. Again, I was always really

00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:11.740
attracted to more of the social and community

00:33:11.740 --> 00:33:14.960
-based work. I kind of lit a little fire and

00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:18.960
untended there. I hurt my butt. So I got into

00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:22.680
that, did that for about two, three years, the

00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:26.640
EMS. Really enjoyed it. I love doing that type

00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:28.519
of work, flying around British Columbia and the

00:33:28.519 --> 00:33:31.529
hills. Got to see all these same communities

00:33:31.529 --> 00:33:34.470
that now Helicopters Without Borders is servicing.

00:33:34.609 --> 00:33:36.130
But, you know, I used to see them on more of

00:33:36.130 --> 00:33:39.390
a emerging high acute patient transport realm.

00:33:40.109 --> 00:33:42.329
And then after I did that for a couple of years

00:33:42.329 --> 00:33:44.210
and then I just missed the bush too much. So

00:33:44.210 --> 00:33:46.289
I went back to the bush, back to my old company,

00:33:46.349 --> 00:33:49.029
Remote Helicopters, and went and fired us for

00:33:49.029 --> 00:33:51.670
another few years after that. And then came back

00:33:51.670 --> 00:33:54.230
to EMS again. So I kind of bounced back and forth,

00:33:54.250 --> 00:33:56.210
back and forth throughout my 20s there before

00:33:56.210 --> 00:34:00.940
starting Helicopters Without Borders. A lot of

00:34:00.940 --> 00:34:03.779
people that have talked to me about indigenous

00:34:03.779 --> 00:34:07.079
populations, some here in the US, in Canada,

00:34:07.380 --> 00:34:12.320
this is obviously not all, but it doesn't seem

00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:14.659
like people are aware of a lot of the struggles

00:34:14.659 --> 00:34:16.920
of some of these places, reservations, et cetera.

00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:20.619
And when you think about the conversation that

00:34:20.619 --> 00:34:23.579
we have in our professions, as far as that identity

00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:26.059
and that tribe, whether it's you're a firefighter

00:34:26.059 --> 00:34:30.269
or a pilot or a paramedic, I can't imagine actually

00:34:30.269 --> 00:34:32.690
being part of a tribe, you know, the original

00:34:32.690 --> 00:34:34.710
use of the word and then having that systematically

00:34:34.710 --> 00:34:37.829
deconstructed to the point where you're kind

00:34:37.829 --> 00:34:39.989
of Europeanized and your tribe is kind of, your

00:34:39.989 --> 00:34:43.550
identity is almost taken away completely. And

00:34:43.550 --> 00:34:46.909
the ripple effect that would have on... alcoholism

00:34:46.909 --> 00:34:49.769
and domestic violence and the unaddressed trauma

00:34:49.769 --> 00:34:52.710
that we all know is that domino effect. But a

00:34:52.710 --> 00:34:55.070
lot of people say there is a lot of struggles

00:34:55.070 --> 00:34:58.389
in some of these indigenous populations. What

00:34:58.389 --> 00:35:00.190
were you seeing in these communities that you

00:35:00.190 --> 00:35:08.170
were serving? Yeah, thanks, Grant. Well, when

00:35:08.170 --> 00:35:11.710
I was on fire, again, until I started fighting

00:35:11.710 --> 00:35:15.210
fires, I didn't start to realize some of the...

00:35:15.449 --> 00:35:17.329
challenges that are happening right now back

00:35:17.329 --> 00:35:19.429
there and i think the us is going to be very

00:35:19.429 --> 00:35:24.150
similar to but you know i remember getting out

00:35:24.150 --> 00:35:29.769
to a fire in northern ontario into a flying community

00:35:29.769 --> 00:35:33.469
and just getting there and you know i spent a

00:35:33.469 --> 00:35:36.869
month there staying at this lady's house showed

00:35:36.869 --> 00:35:40.590
up and kind of like i was just really taken back

00:35:40.590 --> 00:35:44.469
um at what was going on you know the amount of

00:35:45.630 --> 00:35:48.550
poverty right in our backyard here in Canada,

00:35:48.690 --> 00:35:51.550
which is a pretty developed country, but it felt

00:35:51.550 --> 00:35:53.630
like you were in an underdeveloped country right

00:35:53.630 --> 00:35:58.329
in our backyard. Those stories and those images

00:35:58.329 --> 00:36:00.730
are something that I hadn't been shared with

00:36:00.730 --> 00:36:04.670
before. I didn't know what was going on. But

00:36:04.670 --> 00:36:06.489
a lot of the struggles, you know, it depends

00:36:06.489 --> 00:36:09.130
community to community. When I was fighting fires

00:36:09.130 --> 00:36:12.369
in Alberta, in Ontario, about that addiction.

00:36:13.099 --> 00:36:16.059
A lot of individuals living in that type of isolation,

00:36:16.579 --> 00:36:21.219
little services there, will turn to substance.

00:36:23.780 --> 00:36:28.219
And that was, I think, pretty prevalent for a

00:36:28.219 --> 00:36:32.079
lot of the locations I went to, drugs and alcohol.

00:36:32.739 --> 00:36:35.639
I think that tends to be, again, I'm not speaking

00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:38.159
for them, I can't, but from my eyes, that tends

00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:41.880
to be the number one. And then from that, there's

00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:47.760
a trickle -down effect of other type of barriers

00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:49.639
that come with living in that type of isolation.

00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:54.099
What were some of the memorable calls you ran

00:36:54.099 --> 00:37:00.780
while you were still on the EMS side? I think,

00:37:00.860 --> 00:37:02.659
you know, that was my first year. I remember,

00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:05.599
I think the burn victims were always probably

00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:08.519
the most challenging ones. Uh, you know, there

00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:12.679
was a young lady that actually lit herself on

00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:16.820
fire and I remember picking her up and I think

00:37:16.820 --> 00:37:19.820
she had like a hundred percent burn or it might

00:37:19.820 --> 00:37:22.659
even have been above that. So we knew that she

00:37:22.659 --> 00:37:25.079
was going to pass at some point within the next

00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:28.119
few hours, but the burn facility is in Vancouver.

00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:32.460
So we flew up to pick her up and yeah, that was

00:37:32.460 --> 00:37:34.360
a, you know, that, that image there was tough,

00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:36.719
you know, cause the individual no longer has

00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:40.590
it. a face or limbs you know it's just what looked

00:37:40.590 --> 00:37:42.889
like charcoal at that point so that one kind

00:37:42.889 --> 00:37:44.269
of always stuck with me especially the smell

00:37:44.269 --> 00:37:47.230
in the helicopter too the challenging one um

00:37:47.230 --> 00:37:50.750
i remember i think it was always two the vulnerable

00:37:50.750 --> 00:37:54.309
folks you know the young and the elder they were

00:37:54.309 --> 00:37:56.889
challenging calls to go to i remember picking

00:37:56.889 --> 00:38:00.570
up this young girl and her and her family were

00:38:00.570 --> 00:38:04.250
driving from uh prince rupert which is the west

00:38:04.250 --> 00:38:07.159
coast of bc over to terrace And we got dispatched

00:38:07.159 --> 00:38:10.000
to a call on the highway. A car had run off the

00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:12.619
side of the highway into the river. And we got

00:38:12.619 --> 00:38:14.619
there and we were the first ones on scene, which

00:38:14.619 --> 00:38:17.460
is actually quite rare for their ambulance. Usually

00:38:17.460 --> 00:38:19.860
there's always some sort of first responder already

00:38:19.860 --> 00:38:22.559
before you who's making the call. I don't know

00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:25.059
what happened, but we got there before the ambulances,

00:38:25.059 --> 00:38:28.639
before police showed up to the site. There was

00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:30.599
no car. You couldn't even see it in the river.

00:38:31.260 --> 00:38:33.920
So you can kind of only assume what's going on

00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:35.880
or how long that car has been in the river for.

00:38:36.360 --> 00:38:39.000
But as soon as the divers got there, they went

00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:42.340
down and everyone was still in the car. The only

00:38:42.340 --> 00:38:44.820
person that they could pull out was the young

00:38:44.820 --> 00:38:48.480
girl. She was about five years old. So they pull

00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:54.840
out this young girl and she was already passed.

00:38:57.629 --> 00:38:59.130
paramedics tried to revive her and put her in

00:38:59.130 --> 00:39:00.789
the helicopter and try and get her to the hospital.

00:39:00.809 --> 00:39:02.769
We only have one stretch in the helicopter, so

00:39:02.769 --> 00:39:04.329
you kind of got to pick and choose. It was going

00:39:04.329 --> 00:39:05.650
to be the young girl that we were going to fly

00:39:05.650 --> 00:39:08.469
to the hospital there. So those ones there, you

00:39:08.469 --> 00:39:10.050
know, those ones are always challenging. I think

00:39:10.050 --> 00:39:15.369
the young and the elder I found for sure. With

00:39:15.369 --> 00:39:18.789
your perspective, I've spoken to this from the

00:39:18.789 --> 00:39:21.090
kind of flight medic point of view as well, but

00:39:21.090 --> 00:39:24.539
as you, as the pilot, My first fire department,

00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:27.340
I remember Hialeah, they were big on us creating

00:39:27.340 --> 00:39:29.599
LZs and did quite a lot of training actually

00:39:29.599 --> 00:39:33.159
on helping the helicopter land. What can the

00:39:33.159 --> 00:39:36.320
crews on the ground do to set you up for success

00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:40.179
on a scene like that? Yeah, great question, James.

00:39:40.619 --> 00:39:43.500
The crews in BC here, because I've only flown

00:39:43.500 --> 00:39:46.619
their ambulance in BC, they're fantastic. They're

00:39:46.619 --> 00:39:49.059
pretty dialed in, the firefighters, you know,

00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:51.960
they go. Some of our managers will go and do

00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:53.880
training with the fire departments of how to

00:39:53.880 --> 00:40:00.460
set up the LZ. Honestly, there's nothing that

00:40:00.460 --> 00:40:02.420
I think they could do better. They already do

00:40:02.420 --> 00:40:05.219
such a great job of securing the area. Like just

00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:07.079
this last summer, there was a boating accident

00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:10.059
over North Van and we got called to a tight little

00:40:10.059 --> 00:40:12.579
spot in a park. So, you know, we had hundreds

00:40:12.579 --> 00:40:15.440
of people circled around us filming us there.

00:40:15.949 --> 00:40:18.030
and that's really hard for the first responders

00:40:18.030 --> 00:40:21.030
in a part to secure that area for the helicopter

00:40:21.030 --> 00:40:23.449
land but you know they had their whole perimeter

00:40:23.449 --> 00:40:26.369
secured with fire trucks and police vehicles

00:40:26.369 --> 00:40:29.150
to make sure no one's walking around but a lot

00:40:29.150 --> 00:40:31.869
of the time there's only so much they can do

00:40:31.869 --> 00:40:34.570
because some of the sites that we land at you

00:40:34.570 --> 00:40:36.789
know it's it's really dependent on the on the

00:40:36.789 --> 00:40:38.369
drivers on the pilots if we're going to be able

00:40:38.369 --> 00:40:41.769
to squeeze in there or not and at the same time

00:40:41.769 --> 00:40:44.789
it's they do a good job but they obviously are

00:40:44.789 --> 00:40:47.940
not in aviation a lot of them themselves so it's

00:40:47.940 --> 00:40:49.780
hard for them to know what the decision is going

00:40:49.780 --> 00:40:52.440
to be of the pilot every pilot is different what

00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:54.380
their comfort level is when you're landing there

00:40:54.380 --> 00:40:59.099
and they got to try and match that standard so

00:40:59.099 --> 00:41:00.659
it's not an easy task that they have staying

00:41:00.659 --> 00:41:06.199
up to lcs And talk to me about the challenges

00:41:06.199 --> 00:41:08.820
when it comes to weather as well, because there's

00:41:08.820 --> 00:41:10.940
a lot of times, obviously, you have a call, you

00:41:10.940 --> 00:41:14.400
hope there's going to be some sort of helicopter

00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:16.019
that's going to be able to transport the patient.

00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:18.559
But especially in Florida here, we have a lot

00:41:18.559 --> 00:41:20.940
of intense weather, we have high winds, we have

00:41:20.940 --> 00:41:25.139
thunder, lightning, et cetera. What are the safety

00:41:25.139 --> 00:41:27.539
parameters when you can, and then what are the

00:41:27.539 --> 00:41:29.360
restrictions that maybe people don't even realize?

00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:35.619
Yeah. Well, for weather, for sure. That's where

00:41:35.619 --> 00:41:37.840
most of the cancellations, the majority that

00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:41.840
we're going to come from is the weather. So one

00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:45.539
of the restrictions that ECHS, the dispatchers

00:41:45.539 --> 00:41:50.019
will do is that they don't share any of the information

00:41:50.019 --> 00:41:52.860
on the type of call, who the call is for, the

00:41:52.860 --> 00:41:56.159
condition of the patient. They don't relay that

00:41:56.159 --> 00:42:01.510
to us because they don't want that to... They

00:42:01.510 --> 00:42:03.469
don't want that to influence our decision on

00:42:03.469 --> 00:42:05.869
safety on the weather. So we just get a call.

00:42:06.110 --> 00:42:08.690
We know roughly maybe the coordinates of where

00:42:08.690 --> 00:42:10.889
we're going or if it's a hospital transfer, we

00:42:10.889 --> 00:42:13.309
know the hospital. We go in and check the weather.

00:42:14.070 --> 00:42:17.769
Daytime, you know, in the daytime, it's a lot

00:42:17.769 --> 00:42:20.289
easier to get around. You know, you can see and

00:42:20.289 --> 00:42:23.550
we're VFR most of the time. But as soon as you

00:42:23.550 --> 00:42:26.519
get into night ops. That's where it gets a little

00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:29.860
bit more challenging and our margins go way up

00:42:29.860 --> 00:42:32.800
at night ops there for obvious reasons. You know,

00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:38.119
you just can't see naturally. But I would say,

00:42:38.139 --> 00:42:39.960
you know, to answer your question, what are some

00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:42.840
things that people don't realize is that, you

00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:45.559
know, those first responders, they get a lot

00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:48.880
of flack for when they don't go or they do have

00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:53.050
to cancel a call. because of weather saying,

00:42:53.150 --> 00:42:54.630
you know, maybe they're not, the pilots aren't

00:42:54.630 --> 00:42:57.150
trying hard enough. You know, we had to wait

00:42:57.150 --> 00:43:00.090
six hours. You know, we're, we're restricted

00:43:00.090 --> 00:43:03.130
by law. Like we have, we have minimums that transport

00:43:03.130 --> 00:43:07.070
Canada and for you guys down there that FAA sets

00:43:07.070 --> 00:43:10.730
for pilots. And this is the limit that you have.

00:43:10.750 --> 00:43:13.170
You must have this much visibility. The clouds

00:43:13.170 --> 00:43:16.389
must be this high. If they're not, you cannot

00:43:16.389 --> 00:43:20.190
go. So we have to follow those. And a lot of

00:43:20.190 --> 00:43:22.809
the time when we can't, we're civilian aircraft

00:43:22.809 --> 00:43:26.150
is how the ambulance program works here in Canada.

00:43:26.289 --> 00:43:30.289
But who can have further or lower margins is

00:43:30.289 --> 00:43:33.190
the military. And for us in Canada, the search

00:43:33.190 --> 00:43:36.489
and rescue is operated by the military. So they'll

00:43:36.489 --> 00:43:39.750
get sent out in circumstances maybe where we

00:43:39.750 --> 00:43:42.690
can't or a patient is extremely critical where

00:43:42.690 --> 00:43:45.949
they need to send that type of helicopter. Yeah.

00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:49.920
Well, speaking of that, Dave was on the show

00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:54.179
and talked about some of the most hairy flights

00:43:54.179 --> 00:43:56.619
that he's had. What are some of your biggest

00:43:56.619 --> 00:43:59.300
pucker factor moments that you've had in the

00:43:59.300 --> 00:44:02.820
helicopter itself? Yeah, Dave's an absolute legend,

00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:06.000
man. His aviation career spans far and wide past

00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:12.480
mine in those stories. For me, it would have

00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:18.159
to be weather for the most part. can, can scare

00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:22.860
you. But I remember when I was flying, um, I

00:44:22.860 --> 00:44:26.079
think I had like 120 hours. So I was fresh out

00:44:26.079 --> 00:44:31.739
of school and I was on my second job alone. And

00:44:31.739 --> 00:44:35.199
I was in a jet ranger in Northern Alberta and

00:44:35.199 --> 00:44:41.579
I was taking some, um, some operators into a,

00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:44.780
uh, some sort of research station. I can't remember,

00:44:44.900 --> 00:44:49.389
but. I turned the helicopter and I was downwind

00:44:49.389 --> 00:44:52.070
at the time and I turned the helicopter for my

00:44:52.070 --> 00:44:55.050
final approach. I just didn't have enough airspeed,

00:44:55.130 --> 00:44:57.449
man. And I just didn't know the helicopter well

00:44:57.449 --> 00:45:00.929
enough. And I made my turn and I made that turn

00:45:00.929 --> 00:45:03.769
to make, to go into final. I just started to

00:45:03.769 --> 00:45:05.789
fall out of the sky because I didn't keep enough

00:45:05.789 --> 00:45:08.170
airspeed. And naturally we'll start to lose airspeed

00:45:08.170 --> 00:45:10.889
as you make a sharp turn like that. And I remember

00:45:10.889 --> 00:45:13.050
the helicopter just started dropping and I was

00:45:13.050 --> 00:45:16.900
already low. And I was like. oh shit man what

00:45:16.900 --> 00:45:19.820
what am i gonna do and the only thing you could

00:45:19.820 --> 00:45:24.900
do is just nose the helicopter's nose down to

00:45:24.900 --> 00:45:27.420
try and pick up airspeed so you can pick up more

00:45:27.420 --> 00:45:29.059
lift and that's what i did but i was already

00:45:29.059 --> 00:45:32.179
so low and i came right into the tree line luckily

00:45:32.179 --> 00:45:34.880
there was a small little road in this tree line

00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:37.980
so i was able to go into it down below the tree

00:45:37.980 --> 00:45:40.760
line and get some airspeed and come up and i

00:45:40.760 --> 00:45:42.780
just remember my passengers and i was like oh

00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:47.420
that was so cool that was great man in the back

00:45:47.420 --> 00:45:49.760
of my mind i was like you you don't understand

00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:52.000
what's going on in my pants right now buddy but

00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:56.119
yeah that's great let's go along with that yeah

00:45:56.119 --> 00:46:01.460
but it was you know for me my my best learning

00:46:01.460 --> 00:46:04.380
experiences have unfortunately been the ones

00:46:04.380 --> 00:46:06.219
where i've almost had near misses in aviation

00:46:06.840 --> 00:46:08.380
Most of them were when I was younger learning

00:46:08.380 --> 00:46:12.760
there. Now I know whenever I make a turn, keep

00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:15.300
an air seat. I'm not letting that air seat drop

00:46:15.300 --> 00:46:19.880
off. Talk to me about sleep. Dave and I have

00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:21.579
had lots and lots of conversations. He's more

00:46:21.579 --> 00:46:24.940
than familiar with my dead horse that I keep

00:46:24.940 --> 00:46:26.980
flogging on seat deprivation in the fire service.

00:46:27.159 --> 00:46:30.780
But what is the oversight as far as the amount

00:46:30.780 --> 00:46:32.659
of rest and recovery you have to get as a pilot?

00:46:35.900 --> 00:46:37.900
Yeah, I remember because Dave's done a bit of

00:46:37.900 --> 00:46:41.500
my training in the past and he does a great session

00:46:41.500 --> 00:46:48.300
on sleep and fatigue there. So for us, you know,

00:46:48.300 --> 00:46:51.739
the rules recently for Transport Canada has changed

00:46:51.739 --> 00:46:54.619
of how much time off. I think it used to be we

00:46:54.619 --> 00:46:57.900
had to have eight hours off shift. I think now

00:46:57.900 --> 00:47:00.039
we're close to that 12 hour mark depending on

00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:02.199
what type of ops, what type of flying you're

00:47:02.199 --> 00:47:07.559
doing and which regs you fall under. But when

00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:09.559
you're flying their ambulance, you know, you

00:47:09.559 --> 00:47:12.360
might do a few night shifts, a few day shifts

00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:14.780
in a row, very similar to how a firefighter shift

00:47:14.780 --> 00:47:20.079
work. And when you going on to night shifts off

00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:22.579
day shifts, you're still transitioning your body.

00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:25.139
So maybe you didn't sleep that day and now you're

00:47:25.139 --> 00:47:27.880
going on to a night shift. You don't have any

00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:30.199
calls and then something, a call comes in, you

00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:32.530
know, around one in the morning. And all of a

00:47:32.530 --> 00:47:34.409
sudden, you know, you get a call, okay, you're

00:47:34.409 --> 00:47:36.750
going up the coast here. And, you know, for the

00:47:36.750 --> 00:47:40.730
time of just being out cold, you know, 20 minutes,

00:47:40.750 --> 00:47:42.929
now you're up in the air, pushing dials, flying

00:47:42.929 --> 00:47:48.849
this helicopter. It's a, you're at a very critical

00:47:48.849 --> 00:47:51.369
point of that flight when you're probably at

00:47:51.369 --> 00:47:54.570
the highest risk waking up there. You know, you're

00:47:54.570 --> 00:47:56.590
still down, you're not aware there. And then

00:47:56.590 --> 00:47:59.250
also if you're flying all night, coming off day

00:47:59.250 --> 00:48:00.690
shifts into a night shift and you're flying all

00:48:00.690 --> 00:48:03.869
night. You're getting back to base at 6, 7 in

00:48:03.869 --> 00:48:05.670
the morning. You haven't slept at all. You can

00:48:05.670 --> 00:48:09.889
only imagine how increased the risk is of that

00:48:09.889 --> 00:48:14.030
flight now. I know this might be part of what

00:48:14.030 --> 00:48:17.829
we just discussed, but when you reflect on all

00:48:17.829 --> 00:48:20.130
the tragedies in your industry, are there any

00:48:20.130 --> 00:48:24.630
common denominators behind these crashes? That's

00:48:24.630 --> 00:48:31.420
a good question. You can read the... TSB reports

00:48:31.420 --> 00:48:35.820
there on what happens, but unfortunately, it

00:48:35.820 --> 00:48:38.400
seems like a lot of the point goes back to pilot

00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:43.320
error, pilot decision making. I think a lot of

00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:45.800
flights and a lot of tragedies that happen usually

00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:51.719
end up men and women pushing weather. That's

00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:53.739
usually what happens when they're pushing weather

00:48:53.739 --> 00:48:56.719
and they get themselves unknown at a point where

00:48:56.719 --> 00:49:00.889
they should have turned back a bit ago. but they

00:49:00.889 --> 00:49:02.969
didn't. And now there is nowhere to turn back

00:49:02.969 --> 00:49:10.550
to. So that happens a lot. So yeah, I think it

00:49:10.550 --> 00:49:12.250
probably would have to be weather there, James.

00:49:12.530 --> 00:49:14.449
You know, obviously mechanical does happen a

00:49:14.449 --> 00:49:16.429
fair bit, but the helicopters, the new helicopters,

00:49:16.590 --> 00:49:18.949
actually for the most part, you know, when I

00:49:18.949 --> 00:49:20.550
was buying the 212, that's an old helicopter.

00:49:20.590 --> 00:49:23.530
It's very reliable though. But you know, all

00:49:23.530 --> 00:49:25.329
the troubles that I got in, it was mainly the

00:49:25.329 --> 00:49:29.559
troubles I put myself in on the helicopter. It

00:49:29.559 --> 00:49:32.500
reminds me, I had one of my friends on, um, Dukes,

00:49:32.500 --> 00:49:35.780
who's a skydiver and a base jumper. And he was

00:49:35.780 --> 00:49:37.739
talking about, you know, there's times where

00:49:37.739 --> 00:49:40.579
they climb, you know, for hours to get to the

00:49:40.579 --> 00:49:43.440
top of this peak. And he said, something doesn't

00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:45.159
feel right. And you gotta, you gotta trust your

00:49:45.159 --> 00:49:48.500
gut. He said, but it takes a lot of courage to

00:49:48.500 --> 00:49:50.039
turn around and say, no, we're going to walk

00:49:50.039 --> 00:49:51.940
back down again. We're not doing the jump. And

00:49:51.940 --> 00:49:53.079
I think that's kind of, you know, what you're

00:49:53.079 --> 00:49:55.940
talking about too. Like that's the. the ultimate

00:49:55.940 --> 00:49:58.559
self -discipline is to be able to say now isn't

00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:02.179
the right time. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

00:50:02.219 --> 00:50:04.519
I remember the stuff that I used to do, you know,

00:50:04.519 --> 00:50:05.980
in my early twenties when I was just starting

00:50:05.980 --> 00:50:08.360
pilot and our risks that I'd take for no reason.

00:50:08.860 --> 00:50:11.440
And I don't know why in the past, you know, maybe

00:50:11.440 --> 00:50:14.500
you're trying to prove something to someone you're

00:50:14.500 --> 00:50:16.219
trying to build up your hours. You're trying

00:50:16.219 --> 00:50:18.840
to get the job complete for the client. You know,

00:50:18.860 --> 00:50:20.539
there's always a lot of pressure from clients

00:50:20.539 --> 00:50:24.019
who are hiring you, but now, you know, as a kind

00:50:24.019 --> 00:50:25.920
of. had a little bit you know i've been flying

00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:29.460
for 15 years now you just don't those risks aren't

00:50:29.460 --> 00:50:32.880
worth it anymore um you know the the holes that

00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:35.659
i used to land in you know you might be five

00:50:35.659 --> 00:50:37.719
feet away from your blade tip you know you just

00:50:37.719 --> 00:50:39.619
don't you don't need to do that anymore it's

00:50:39.619 --> 00:50:41.840
not worth it so you don't bother doing it man

00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:46.460
yeah absolutely well you've talked about obviously

00:50:46.460 --> 00:50:48.960
up to this point you know working for agencies

00:50:50.039 --> 00:50:53.460
What was it that you started seeing that made

00:50:53.460 --> 00:50:56.039
you want to create your own nonprofit to help

00:50:56.039 --> 00:51:00.579
people in these communities? Well, I would have

00:51:00.579 --> 00:51:04.480
to, you know, even before working with the communities

00:51:04.480 --> 00:51:08.199
that we work with now, my uncle, my uncle Paul,

00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:11.559
he's a dude that you show on your podcast. He

00:51:11.559 --> 00:51:14.539
worked for over four years in the humanitarian

00:51:14.539 --> 00:51:19.469
business when he was young. 20s he moved over

00:51:19.469 --> 00:51:23.429
to Africa where he never came back and he fell

00:51:23.429 --> 00:51:26.570
in love with the humanitarian world working for

00:51:26.570 --> 00:51:29.510
World Vision high up in executive levels and

00:51:29.510 --> 00:51:34.210
Care USA as well so he'd always been an inspiration

00:51:34.210 --> 00:51:36.489
of mine and then I told you earlier I had my

00:51:36.489 --> 00:51:40.210
father as an inspiration so I wanted to get into

00:51:40.210 --> 00:51:42.369
what my uncle Paul was doing but I loved aviation

00:51:42.369 --> 00:51:46.369
I was trying to figure out okay do I maybe go

00:51:46.809 --> 00:51:49.789
out and change industries for a little bit. I

00:51:49.789 --> 00:51:52.469
tried to get on with the UN for a number of years,

00:51:52.489 --> 00:51:56.250
flying for the World Food Program. I got offered

00:51:56.250 --> 00:52:02.070
two contracts year after year. But at the same

00:52:02.070 --> 00:52:05.449
time, I'd already built relationships and promised

00:52:05.449 --> 00:52:07.389
my commitment to the Fighting Fire to another

00:52:07.389 --> 00:52:10.409
company in Canada. So I turned those down. And

00:52:10.409 --> 00:52:12.929
after that happened, I just had such an itch

00:52:12.929 --> 00:52:15.489
because I really wanted to go. fly for the world

00:52:15.489 --> 00:52:18.869
food program that i decided okay well maybe just

00:52:18.869 --> 00:52:22.250
trying to start my own um non -profit you know

00:52:22.250 --> 00:52:25.090
not doing anything to the degree that the un

00:52:25.090 --> 00:52:28.389
is doing but it was kind of a way to marry you

00:52:28.389 --> 00:52:31.110
know my mentor my dad my mentor my uncle paul

00:52:31.110 --> 00:52:33.969
of the two things that they were doing and that's

00:52:33.969 --> 00:52:36.150
kind of where helicopter self -boarders start

00:52:36.150 --> 00:52:38.610
to grow and start to build a little bit of a

00:52:38.610 --> 00:52:42.030
business plan When I say a business plan, maybe

00:52:42.030 --> 00:52:44.510
three pages of chicken scratch of things that

00:52:44.510 --> 00:52:48.010
we could possibly do. Yeah, so that was kind

00:52:48.010 --> 00:52:55.989
of the beginning days of it. When we actually

00:52:55.989 --> 00:52:58.849
decided to launch Helicopters Without Borders,

00:52:58.969 --> 00:53:03.230
we knew that we wanted to work here in Canada.

00:53:04.510 --> 00:53:07.230
I always say when people hear that Helicopters

00:53:07.230 --> 00:53:09.170
Out of Borders, you think of international NGO,

00:53:09.369 --> 00:53:10.730
and that's what I think a lot of people think

00:53:10.730 --> 00:53:13.809
we are. But, you know, we're born and bred right

00:53:13.809 --> 00:53:17.010
here in British Columbia, and our projects are

00:53:17.010 --> 00:53:19.210
in our backyard looking for ways that we can

00:53:19.210 --> 00:53:21.690
honour Indigenous in our backyard, but not just

00:53:21.690 --> 00:53:23.849
Indigenous, also people that are just living

00:53:23.849 --> 00:53:25.590
in isolation, people that don't have the same

00:53:25.590 --> 00:53:29.250
services and care that I have the luxury of living

00:53:29.250 --> 00:53:31.530
here in the Lower Mainland, British Columbia.

00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:35.940
So firstly, what is the need that you were seeing?

00:53:36.099 --> 00:53:39.800
What is missing? What are the deficits in these

00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:45.880
communities? Every community is different. You

00:53:45.880 --> 00:53:48.440
know, each community seems like they have different

00:53:48.440 --> 00:53:50.800
interests, different needs and different ways

00:53:50.800 --> 00:53:52.420
that they'd like to partner up with helicopters

00:53:52.420 --> 00:53:58.400
or boarders. But I think, you know, in British

00:53:58.400 --> 00:54:02.340
Columbia, one or five people live in rural parts.

00:54:03.260 --> 00:54:07.440
BC is huge, Canada is huge. So there's a lot

00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:11.739
of individuals far from health centers in the

00:54:11.739 --> 00:54:15.440
province. And a lot of communities don't have

00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:17.760
road access into them. They're only accessible

00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:22.179
by air, by boat. So when most people think about

00:54:22.179 --> 00:54:27.059
helicopters, they think of helicopters in a healthcare

00:54:27.059 --> 00:54:30.320
setting as a last resort. So an air ambulance

00:54:30.320 --> 00:54:33.699
responding. When something has already gone wrong,

00:54:34.179 --> 00:54:37.300
we helicopters of horrors, we're trying to shift

00:54:37.300 --> 00:54:42.039
that model. So we're not so much into that high

00:54:42.039 --> 00:54:45.960
acute, that emergency response. But instead,

00:54:46.179 --> 00:54:48.599
you know, instead of using aviation for emergencies

00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:51.400
only here in BC now, we're using it to reach

00:54:51.400 --> 00:54:55.480
communities before the crisis happens. And we

00:54:55.480 --> 00:54:57.699
do that in a few different modalities. One is

00:54:57.699 --> 00:55:02.349
preventative care, education. and health awareness,

00:55:02.789 --> 00:55:06.469
bringing that directly to remote communities,

00:55:06.670 --> 00:55:09.070
underserved communities, marginalized communities.

00:55:09.429 --> 00:55:13.389
We're trying to address the root cause. And we

00:55:13.389 --> 00:55:15.190
believe that's where real change is going to

00:55:15.190 --> 00:55:19.889
happen. So this approach that we're working on,

00:55:19.949 --> 00:55:25.030
it moves the health care upstream. In the long

00:55:25.030 --> 00:55:27.869
term, we hope it's going to reduce avoidable

00:55:27.869 --> 00:55:30.849
hospitalizations. It's going to lower the long

00:55:30.849 --> 00:55:33.849
-term system costs that we have right now and

00:55:33.849 --> 00:55:37.170
hopefully improve quality of life. So rather

00:55:37.170 --> 00:55:40.210
than waiting for someone to become critically

00:55:40.210 --> 00:55:42.829
ill and flying them out, James, we're flying

00:55:42.829 --> 00:55:47.449
care in. And that's just one little way that

00:55:47.449 --> 00:55:49.889
we're trying to build healthier communities from

00:55:49.889 --> 00:55:53.710
the ground up here in BC. But back to your question,

00:55:53.769 --> 00:55:59.119
I know that's a little bit long -winded. For

00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:01.019
us, preventative care is what we're trying to

00:56:01.019 --> 00:56:03.400
do. And we have to explain to the communities,

00:56:03.559 --> 00:56:05.900
a lot of them do want emergency care. They want

00:56:05.900 --> 00:56:08.320
a better air ambulance system, but we're not

00:56:08.320 --> 00:56:12.179
in that game. So if they want to partner with

00:56:12.179 --> 00:56:14.260
us on more of the loan and improve the preventative

00:56:14.260 --> 00:56:16.780
side, that's for the communities. Those are the

00:56:16.780 --> 00:56:19.940
communities that we partner up with. So what

00:56:19.940 --> 00:56:21.920
does the preventative side look like? Are you

00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:27.139
flying physicians there to do clinics? What do

00:56:27.139 --> 00:56:31.480
you see on the ground itself? Yeah, so how the

00:56:31.480 --> 00:56:35.420
actual ops works, depending on what type of services

00:56:35.420 --> 00:56:38.559
that a community has requested from us, we'll

00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:41.099
usually leave on a Monday beginning of the week.

00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:43.239
I was just actually, I got back last night from

00:56:43.239 --> 00:56:45.219
a new community that we're partnered up with.

00:56:46.260 --> 00:56:47.940
We'll leave usually beginning of the week and

00:56:47.940 --> 00:56:51.480
we'll be there for four or five days. And we'll

00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:54.119
bring, you know... For this trip, we brought

00:56:54.119 --> 00:56:57.000
up our mobile dental clinics. So these are clinics,

00:56:57.260 --> 00:56:59.000
they don't have dental infrastructure. They'll

00:56:59.000 --> 00:57:00.760
load up in the back of the helicopter. We run

00:57:00.760 --> 00:57:04.079
x -ray, the compressor units, ventilation chairs.

00:57:04.420 --> 00:57:06.039
They'll go up in the community and we'll set

00:57:06.039 --> 00:57:07.820
them up. We'll have a full -fledged dental clinic

00:57:07.820 --> 00:57:12.019
up there within an hour. But we do fly physicians

00:57:12.019 --> 00:57:15.820
like family doctors a bit, not too, too much

00:57:15.820 --> 00:57:18.460
because a lot of MSP or insurance covers that

00:57:18.460 --> 00:57:20.920
already. For some of the communities, they're

00:57:20.920 --> 00:57:22.860
already having that and we're trying to step

00:57:22.860 --> 00:57:24.880
on board with other services, maybe or not. So

00:57:24.880 --> 00:57:27.840
that could be mental health. That could be we

00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:30.260
do a lot of chronic health disease, so diabetes,

00:57:30.840 --> 00:57:34.239
scanning dieticians going into communities. We

00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:39.300
do pediatrics, occupational therapy, physiotherapy

00:57:39.300 --> 00:57:44.400
there. Yeah, we're kind of trying to build up

00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:48.690
that list and slowly gain into. kidney checks

00:57:48.690 --> 00:57:53.130
as well. Yeah, so there's a few on the list.

00:57:53.309 --> 00:57:55.489
But again, each community has a different request,

00:57:55.630 --> 00:57:58.630
a little bit different. And how are you funding

00:57:58.630 --> 00:58:04.309
this? Well, I need to get on more of these podcasts,

00:58:04.469 --> 00:58:08.449
hopefully, so we can do that. But right now,

00:58:08.489 --> 00:58:10.650
James, it's mainly funded through private donors.

00:58:11.309 --> 00:58:13.769
We have big funders out of Toronto that have

00:58:13.769 --> 00:58:17.150
a very specific interest in remote health care.

00:58:18.079 --> 00:58:20.639
So we get pockets of funds from them. We do a

00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:22.659
lot of grant writing as well, our grant writing

00:58:22.659 --> 00:58:27.599
team. We have a donor who donates all of our

00:58:27.599 --> 00:58:31.179
jet fuel and our carbon offsets as well, PetroValue

00:58:31.179 --> 00:58:34.539
products. They've been a fantastic partner of

00:58:34.539 --> 00:58:39.500
ours from day one. And other than that, you know,

00:58:39.539 --> 00:58:41.539
I think a lot of the fundraising comes from relationships,

00:58:41.719 --> 00:58:43.579
people that are board of directors who might

00:58:43.579 --> 00:58:47.260
introduce us to. Where we find the most success

00:58:47.260 --> 00:58:51.019
is from our previous donors who love what we

00:58:51.019 --> 00:58:53.300
do. They introduce us to more of their networks

00:58:53.300 --> 00:58:56.699
as well. Yeah. So privately, and we don't take

00:58:56.699 --> 00:58:59.739
too much public funds that could be changing

00:58:59.739 --> 00:59:03.000
here this year from the government. But, you

00:59:03.000 --> 00:59:04.820
know, when you take government funding, it comes

00:59:04.820 --> 00:59:07.039
with a lot of red tape and a lot of reporting.

00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:10.300
And, you know, we're a team of about 10 individuals.

00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:12.920
And already as a startup, you know, we're all

00:59:12.920 --> 00:59:15.599
running around with our heads cut off. And then

00:59:15.599 --> 00:59:18.420
to add a bunch of reporting that goes on to that,

00:59:18.440 --> 00:59:20.460
it can be challenging sometimes. But hopefully

00:59:20.460 --> 00:59:22.179
we're going to build ourselves up our capacity

00:59:22.179 --> 00:59:24.400
so that we can start to look at more government

00:59:24.400 --> 00:59:26.719
funding. But on the other side, when you start

00:59:26.719 --> 00:59:29.280
to take the government funding too, naturally,

00:59:29.420 --> 00:59:31.000
and it's fair enough, they're going to want a

00:59:31.000 --> 00:59:35.420
little bit of say in which direction we're going

00:59:35.420 --> 00:59:38.420
about what we find with the private donors. They

00:59:38.420 --> 00:59:41.559
give us a lot of leash to let us do the good

00:59:41.559 --> 00:59:46.510
work and they're going to fund it. If you had

00:59:46.510 --> 00:59:49.650
access to all the resources that you needed,

00:59:49.829 --> 00:59:51.829
what would the kind of, I know it's going to

00:59:51.829 --> 00:59:53.710
be dynamic, what would the ultimate end product

00:59:53.710 --> 01:00:04.309
look like? I think we want to get more into these

01:00:04.309 --> 01:00:08.489
team -based care flights. So a team of practitioners

01:00:08.489 --> 01:00:13.219
who are working directly with a community. to

01:00:13.219 --> 01:00:16.199
build a care plan for that community and the

01:00:16.199 --> 01:00:19.340
two build it together and you know that could

01:00:19.340 --> 01:00:23.599
be a team of chronic health specialists let's

01:00:23.599 --> 01:00:26.880
just focus in on diabetes you know so you can

01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:29.079
have someone from the kidney check team to the

01:00:29.079 --> 01:00:32.360
to the nurses doing the testing but working together

01:00:32.360 --> 01:00:34.860
to build this plan and then helicopter zone orders

01:00:34.860 --> 01:00:38.239
is flying this team in to these communities on

01:00:38.239 --> 01:00:41.340
a more regular basis right now we only have funding

01:00:41.340 --> 01:00:44.519
to do about four trips a year to each community

01:00:44.519 --> 01:00:47.320
that we serve. We're serving right now with about

01:00:47.320 --> 01:00:50.059
10 communities, so almost every single week.

01:00:50.659 --> 01:00:53.639
But if we could build up this team -based care

01:00:53.639 --> 01:00:57.840
model to go out into the communities on a more

01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:00.780
regular basis, maybe once a month so that they

01:01:00.780 --> 01:01:02.780
can have these services, I think that would be

01:01:02.780 --> 01:01:07.019
the end game. On a geographical side, James is

01:01:07.019 --> 01:01:10.409
expanding this across Canada. You know, BC, we

01:01:10.409 --> 01:01:12.070
have a lot of isolated communities, but when

01:01:12.070 --> 01:01:13.750
you go up to the north and you go further east,

01:01:13.969 --> 01:01:16.489
there's the same amount that's happening. There's

01:01:16.489 --> 01:01:18.590
a lot of these flying communities, a lot of communities

01:01:18.590 --> 01:01:22.050
with only winter roads going into them. And we

01:01:22.050 --> 01:01:24.809
believe that, you know, carbon neutral aviation

01:01:24.809 --> 01:01:29.050
is a great tool and a toolkit to do that. When

01:01:29.050 --> 01:01:32.449
we look at somewhere like Australia, you know,

01:01:32.449 --> 01:01:35.590
John Flynn, this fellow almost about 100 years

01:01:35.590 --> 01:01:40.420
ago now, he developed a... a charity to service

01:01:40.420 --> 01:01:43.440
the most isolated parts of Australia by air called

01:01:43.440 --> 01:01:47.139
Royal Flying Doctors, who you've heard of. Today,

01:01:47.420 --> 01:01:50.619
Royal Flying Doctors is the world's largest air

01:01:50.619 --> 01:01:54.280
medical program. They've got close to 100 helicopters,

01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:58.679
and they do preventative care, they do primary

01:01:58.679 --> 01:02:02.239
care, they do education. They're a great mentor

01:02:02.239 --> 01:02:03.780
to look up to. I think our model is a little

01:02:03.780 --> 01:02:07.039
bit different than theirs. In Australia, when

01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:10.059
you look at geographics, very similar to Canada

01:02:10.059 --> 01:02:15.400
as well. And I think that's a great place that

01:02:15.400 --> 01:02:17.940
Canada could look up to where aviation maybe

01:02:17.940 --> 01:02:19.659
could play a role in health care here a little

01:02:19.659 --> 01:02:23.380
bit more. From the prevention point of view.

01:02:25.610 --> 01:02:28.570
When you talk about health care or health here

01:02:28.570 --> 01:02:31.809
in America, we are literally three quarters obese

01:02:31.809 --> 01:02:34.949
or overweight, our nation. So there is so much

01:02:34.949 --> 01:02:37.510
room for improvement to make the nation healthier

01:02:37.510 --> 01:02:40.670
and therefore take a huge chunk out of what we

01:02:40.670 --> 01:02:43.269
spend on health care and put it into all the

01:02:43.269 --> 01:02:46.130
proactive measures. What are some of the common

01:02:46.130 --> 01:02:47.929
denominators that you're seeing in some of these

01:02:47.929 --> 01:02:51.179
communities that you serve? that if that was

01:02:51.179 --> 01:02:53.380
addressed you would have a healthier population

01:02:53.380 --> 01:02:55.920
and therefore maybe not such a need to have you

01:02:55.920 --> 01:03:01.139
know consistent medical visits yeah and james

01:03:01.139 --> 01:03:04.440
you mean specifically like on on food and diet

01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:07.639
is what you're talking about yeah food diet community

01:03:07.639 --> 01:03:11.860
addiction support you know the the the the elements

01:03:11.860 --> 01:03:13.340
that would put them back i mean we were talking

01:03:13.340 --> 01:03:15.239
about the indigenous people earlier that they

01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:17.179
were you know these were tribes that didn't need

01:03:17.659 --> 01:03:20.480
healthcare and you know glucometers and insulin

01:03:20.480 --> 01:03:23.039
and you know they were moving well they were

01:03:23.039 --> 01:03:26.500
eating well um they had community so not saying

01:03:26.500 --> 01:03:29.780
we go back to maybe that level but we have as

01:03:29.780 --> 01:03:35.199
a as a um uh god my brain is not working today

01:03:35.199 --> 01:03:39.019
um as a generation we've strayed so far from

01:03:39.019 --> 01:03:41.780
the ancient wisdom that literally carried you

01:03:41.780 --> 01:03:45.099
know humans for millennia up to this point so

01:03:45.769 --> 01:03:48.769
Kind of tapping back into that so that we're

01:03:48.769 --> 01:03:50.969
forging health again and therefore not having

01:03:50.969 --> 01:03:55.170
to lean so heavily on the health side. Yeah.

01:03:57.610 --> 01:04:03.630
You know, indigenous communities, you know, they've

01:04:03.630 --> 01:04:11.030
been leading solutions for a lot longer than

01:04:11.030 --> 01:04:14.320
we've been here. But, you know, today that, you

01:04:14.320 --> 01:04:17.360
know, the community governed services that they

01:04:17.360 --> 01:04:21.619
practice and culturally grounded care and models

01:04:21.619 --> 01:04:23.480
where people aren't forced to choose between

01:04:23.480 --> 01:04:28.179
safety and access. But, you know, it's a really

01:04:28.179 --> 01:04:32.159
tough subject and one I wish I had more experience

01:04:32.159 --> 01:04:34.960
and knowledge in. But, you know, when I look

01:04:34.960 --> 01:04:39.699
at it from an outsider, constantly learning about

01:04:39.699 --> 01:04:42.940
reconciliation. the effects of colonization,

01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:46.840
but you know, a lot of the first nations here,

01:04:46.980 --> 01:04:48.699
you know, yeah, they used to live off the lands.

01:04:50.360 --> 01:04:52.539
They did a lot better than we know how to do

01:04:52.539 --> 01:04:56.460
it. And then they were colonized and they were

01:04:56.460 --> 01:05:00.500
told to turn in to white people and follow our

01:05:00.500 --> 01:05:04.519
rules and follow our standards. And then, you

01:05:04.519 --> 01:05:06.820
know, there became a certain point where Canada,

01:05:06.940 --> 01:05:09.780
they said, okay, well, this is wrong. We shouldn't

01:05:09.780 --> 01:05:12.550
be doing this. close the residential schools

01:05:12.550 --> 01:05:16.369
and you can go back to your traditional ways

01:05:16.369 --> 01:05:17.929
but unfortunately a lot of those traditional

01:05:17.929 --> 01:05:22.469
ways were now lost and they were forgotten so

01:05:22.469 --> 01:05:26.070
a lot of the communities that we partner up with

01:05:26.070 --> 01:05:29.449
and have the luxury of going to are kind of caught

01:05:29.449 --> 01:05:33.190
in that limbo of you know okay well this is what

01:05:33.190 --> 01:05:34.750
we used to do and this is what we've been now

01:05:34.750 --> 01:05:38.949
taught for the last couple hundred years And

01:05:38.949 --> 01:05:42.070
that's where the issues arise because now they're

01:05:42.070 --> 01:05:45.750
left to fend for themselves. And when we talk

01:05:45.750 --> 01:05:48.909
about even languages, we were just in the community

01:05:48.909 --> 01:05:52.110
yesterday and it's been a long time since I've

01:05:52.110 --> 01:05:55.889
heard an elder speak their traditional language.

01:05:56.010 --> 01:05:58.670
And it was so refreshing these last two days

01:05:58.670 --> 01:06:02.230
where we were to hear two of the elders communicating

01:06:02.230 --> 01:06:06.170
in their traditional language. A lot of the communities

01:06:06.170 --> 01:06:08.349
are trying to reteach that to their youth, but

01:06:08.349 --> 01:06:10.889
even other elders, you know, getting to a point

01:06:10.889 --> 01:06:12.590
where there's not many that still speak it. So

01:06:12.590 --> 01:06:16.750
those languages are getting lost. Yeah, that's

01:06:16.750 --> 01:06:19.530
heartbreaking. It really is. I mean, you know,

01:06:19.530 --> 01:06:22.170
there's an element, of course, of what's happened

01:06:22.170 --> 01:06:23.969
has happened. And we have to acknowledge that,

01:06:23.969 --> 01:06:26.130
too. You can't go back in time and undo all the

01:06:26.130 --> 01:06:29.170
damage. But at the same time, you know, how do

01:06:29.170 --> 01:06:32.019
we learn from history? How do we try and... put

01:06:32.019 --> 01:06:34.119
things back that were broken that you know that

01:06:34.119 --> 01:06:36.920
are able to be fixed again and you know how do

01:06:36.920 --> 01:06:40.380
we then take the wisdom from you know yesteryear

01:06:40.380 --> 01:06:42.360
and apply it with some of the great technology

01:06:42.360 --> 01:06:45.219
of today and have a fusion but you know there's

01:06:45.219 --> 01:06:48.380
a lot of arrogance in modern society full stop

01:06:48.380 --> 01:06:51.440
and you know look i mean look at the cbd and

01:06:51.440 --> 01:06:54.440
chiropractic and plant medicine we're finally

01:06:54.440 --> 01:06:56.760
going oh you know this seems to work and then

01:06:56.760 --> 01:06:58.579
we're you know asking for a thousand studies

01:06:58.579 --> 01:07:01.579
rather than going well You know, this literally

01:07:01.579 --> 01:07:04.719
lasted for thousands of years. So clearly there's

01:07:04.719 --> 01:07:06.940
something to it. Do we need to have, you know,

01:07:06.940 --> 01:07:09.679
double blind studies to see if psilocybin is

01:07:09.679 --> 01:07:11.599
helpful for mental health? No, we know it is

01:07:11.599 --> 01:07:14.000
because it's worked for centuries and centuries.

01:07:14.199 --> 01:07:17.400
So, yeah, I think, you know, dropping our egos,

01:07:17.420 --> 01:07:20.619
being humble enough to know where our ancestors

01:07:20.619 --> 01:07:23.619
screwed up because it wasn't on the generation

01:07:23.619 --> 01:07:26.679
that's here right now, mostly. But then finding

01:07:26.679 --> 01:07:29.469
that blend between, you know, trying to... put

01:07:29.469 --> 01:07:32.190
back as much as we can, but then also, you know,

01:07:32.190 --> 01:07:35.610
not stay in the past and move forward with this

01:07:35.610 --> 01:07:38.409
new kind of, uh, you know, fusion, like I said,

01:07:38.489 --> 01:07:41.469
but if we just pretend that all the bad stuff

01:07:41.469 --> 01:07:43.329
didn't happen, then that certainly doesn't make

01:07:43.329 --> 01:07:46.010
things better. But then we also can't, you know,

01:07:46.010 --> 01:07:48.210
we can't undo what's done. There are cities all

01:07:48.210 --> 01:07:50.329
over native American land now. So we've got to

01:07:50.329 --> 01:07:55.210
find that middle ground somehow. Yeah. Yeah.

01:07:55.329 --> 01:07:59.800
Yeah. 100 % James. And you don't, A lot of the

01:07:59.800 --> 01:08:02.420
communities, you know, living in a location there,

01:08:02.539 --> 01:08:05.880
like, I mean, some of the coolest stuff to see

01:08:05.880 --> 01:08:09.019
is the resilience that they have and the attitude

01:08:09.019 --> 01:08:11.500
that, you know, they're still fighting. A lot

01:08:11.500 --> 01:08:12.760
of the communities, they are doing well. I mean,

01:08:12.780 --> 01:08:14.780
it's not all, you know, helicopters, outboarders.

01:08:14.800 --> 01:08:16.979
We're a charity, obviously, so, you know, sometimes

01:08:16.979 --> 01:08:19.800
trying to fix problems, but there's a lot of

01:08:19.800 --> 01:08:22.159
great things happening in the communities that

01:08:22.159 --> 01:08:24.560
we work with, too, and a lot of learnings that

01:08:24.560 --> 01:08:26.600
helicopters, outboarders is taking of how we

01:08:26.600 --> 01:08:29.239
behave. how we move around the province there

01:08:29.239 --> 01:08:33.399
for our next step. Beautiful. Well, I want to

01:08:33.399 --> 01:08:35.300
throw some closing questions at you before I

01:08:35.300 --> 01:08:38.859
let you go. Yes. The first one I love to ask,

01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:41.319
is there a book or are there books that you love

01:08:41.319 --> 01:08:43.680
to recommend? It can be related to our discussion

01:08:43.680 --> 01:08:51.720
today or completely unrelated. Yeah. I wish I

01:08:51.720 --> 01:08:57.229
read more jams, but, you know, one book. The

01:08:57.229 --> 01:09:00.729
Untethered Soul was a book that I read maybe

01:09:00.729 --> 01:09:04.289
about 10 years ago and it was kind of a game

01:09:04.289 --> 01:09:09.270
changer for me. Just how I think about life and

01:09:09.270 --> 01:09:13.310
go about life as an individual and think about

01:09:13.310 --> 01:09:17.029
the individuals around me. So I would say that

01:09:17.029 --> 01:09:19.069
would be my book that I would recommend if anyone

01:09:19.069 --> 01:09:22.029
hasn't read that one. The Untethered Soul. Yeah.

01:09:22.690 --> 01:09:25.550
Beautiful. What about television, documentaries,

01:09:25.630 --> 01:09:32.970
or films? Well, I was just joking with my partner,

01:09:33.090 --> 01:09:36.689
Maya, this morning. Maya is a resident doctor,

01:09:36.829 --> 01:09:39.630
and she was just telling me the last thing she

01:09:39.630 --> 01:09:42.770
wants to do when she comes home is think anything

01:09:42.770 --> 01:09:45.449
about medical, anything about doctor, or watching

01:09:45.449 --> 01:09:48.869
a show. But what I did yesterday when I got back

01:09:48.869 --> 01:09:52.859
home from my flight, I... crash on the couch

01:09:52.859 --> 01:09:55.319
and put on an episode of mayday that's my favorite

01:09:55.319 --> 01:09:58.039
show to watch you know on air disasters and true

01:09:58.039 --> 01:10:01.020
air disasters and she goes you're weird man so

01:10:01.020 --> 01:10:05.279
you know i've always liked mayday i like watching

01:10:05.279 --> 01:10:08.020
that uh you know it i think it's relevant for

01:10:08.020 --> 01:10:11.060
me in aviation they look at what's what's happened

01:10:11.060 --> 01:10:13.720
in the air true stories what went wrong and how

01:10:13.720 --> 01:10:15.460
can you correct it and how you be safer next

01:10:15.460 --> 01:10:19.680
time has she ever watched the pit that new show

01:10:20.870 --> 01:10:23.189
Jane, it's so funny you say that because someone

01:10:23.189 --> 01:10:25.890
told me about that show when I was up in community

01:10:25.890 --> 01:10:28.149
and that's what brought up the conversation.

01:10:28.210 --> 01:10:30.189
I asked her, I said, have you ever seen The Pit?

01:10:30.449 --> 01:10:32.529
And she said, I'm not watching any shows after

01:10:32.529 --> 01:10:35.229
I come home. We said we watched together, but

01:10:35.229 --> 01:10:37.369
maybe not when she's on ER shifts, she said.

01:10:38.069 --> 01:10:40.729
Yeah, it's just, it's good because it really

01:10:40.729 --> 01:10:44.640
does. a great job of showing a lot of issues

01:10:44.640 --> 01:10:46.899
in medicine. It shows, you know, everything from

01:10:46.899 --> 01:10:49.960
how busy ERs actually are, you know, this whole

01:10:49.960 --> 01:10:52.420
COVID thing when they were screaming about people

01:10:52.420 --> 01:10:53.979
being in the hallways and we're like, yeah, they're

01:10:53.979 --> 01:10:55.340
always in the hallways. Have you never been to

01:10:55.340 --> 01:10:57.960
an ER? They're a nightmare. But, you know, the

01:10:57.960 --> 01:10:59.939
violence against nurses and then just really,

01:11:00.039 --> 01:11:02.319
really well done, but also technically, like

01:11:02.319 --> 01:11:04.380
they have got such good technical advisors that

01:11:04.380 --> 01:11:06.420
all the procedures, all the drugs, you know,

01:11:06.420 --> 01:11:10.579
the... So defibrillation, all that stuff is right.

01:11:10.760 --> 01:11:12.600
So as someone in medicine, when you're watching

01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:14.640
it, you're like, oh, okay, good. This is actually

01:11:14.640 --> 01:11:16.140
what it looks like. And of course, there's a

01:11:16.140 --> 01:11:19.060
slight Hollywood twist to it, but nothing like

01:11:19.060 --> 01:11:23.539
what you normally see. So yeah, if she ever feels

01:11:23.539 --> 01:11:25.199
like watching something and maybe is on a break,

01:11:25.420 --> 01:11:29.520
it is actually worth a watch. Yeah, yeah, no,

01:11:29.579 --> 01:11:33.239
definitely. Yeah, she's been in the ER just on

01:11:33.239 --> 01:11:36.489
her first few months here on the shifts. Maya

01:11:36.489 --> 01:11:39.670
is a special human being and she likes it, but

01:11:39.670 --> 01:11:42.210
I think she's missing the interaction with the

01:11:42.210 --> 01:11:44.569
people. She feels like you're a bit of a machine

01:11:44.569 --> 01:11:46.710
and a puppy mill just getting people in and you've

01:11:46.710 --> 01:11:48.409
got to push them out because those EZRs are so

01:11:48.409 --> 01:11:50.489
busy, but it's not really how Maya operates.

01:11:50.630 --> 01:11:52.630
She wants to be with the individuals, working

01:11:52.630 --> 01:11:56.229
with them directly. Yeah, that's understandable.

01:11:57.310 --> 01:11:59.250
Well, the next question, is there a person that

01:11:59.250 --> 01:12:01.609
you'd recommend to come on this podcast as a

01:12:01.609 --> 01:12:04.149
guest to speak to the first responders, military,

01:12:04.310 --> 01:12:08.550
and associated professions of the world? I think

01:12:08.550 --> 01:12:10.649
a good one would be our other co -founder. My

01:12:10.649 --> 01:12:12.510
father's a co -founder of Helicopters Outorders,

01:12:12.569 --> 01:12:16.149
but the other one is Adam Oldos. He's a veteran

01:12:16.149 --> 01:12:21.989
as well. Adam lives down in... He just moved

01:12:21.989 --> 01:12:23.869
from Texas up the East of Canberra, what state

01:12:23.869 --> 01:12:28.039
he's in now, but he was another... a brain and

01:12:28.039 --> 01:12:30.220
a heart behind this project of Helicopter South

01:12:30.220 --> 01:12:33.920
Borders, but you know, he did serve multiple

01:12:33.920 --> 01:12:39.460
tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, I believe. In

01:12:39.460 --> 01:12:42.880
the past, he's a helicopter pilot as well. Now

01:12:42.880 --> 01:12:46.039
he runs his own night flight concepts, training

01:12:46.039 --> 01:12:49.100
those type of individuals how to operate at nighttime

01:12:49.100 --> 01:12:52.279
in aviation with MBG. You know, so I would recommend

01:12:52.279 --> 01:12:55.170
Adam for sure. Yeah, I'd love to. If you're able

01:12:55.170 --> 01:12:56.949
to help me connect, I think it would be great

01:12:56.949 --> 01:12:58.949
to get along. I will connect you. Yeah, for sure,

01:12:58.970 --> 01:13:01.229
Jay. I'll connect you right after this. Beautiful.

01:13:01.270 --> 01:13:03.689
Thank you. All right. Well, then the last question

01:13:03.689 --> 01:13:05.350
before we make sure everyone knows where to find

01:13:05.350 --> 01:13:08.149
Helicopters Without Borders and you, what do

01:13:08.149 --> 01:13:14.970
you do to decompress? My partner, Maya, she's

01:13:14.970 --> 01:13:16.609
over in Denmark. We've been doing long distance

01:13:16.609 --> 01:13:22.100
for about four years now. It's hard for us to

01:13:22.100 --> 01:13:26.100
connect with a nine -hour time difference. But

01:13:26.100 --> 01:13:29.520
one thing that she's gotten me a little bit better

01:13:29.520 --> 01:13:33.520
at over the last few years, James, is just talking

01:13:33.520 --> 01:13:37.899
about some of the issues and challenges and the

01:13:37.899 --> 01:13:39.680
great things that are happening at work that

01:13:39.680 --> 01:13:43.880
maybe I didn't do enough of. And now practicing

01:13:43.880 --> 01:13:46.859
that a little bit more and having someone to

01:13:46.859 --> 01:13:49.449
just be a selling board has been... You know,

01:13:49.470 --> 01:13:52.090
it's been huge. It's been great. And I really

01:13:52.090 --> 01:13:55.329
appreciate her for opening up that door for me.

01:13:55.409 --> 01:13:59.489
So I guess in short, just talking to someone

01:13:59.489 --> 01:14:01.510
rather than letting it build up in your head,

01:14:01.550 --> 01:14:05.789
those stories and their thoughts. Brilliant.

01:14:06.449 --> 01:14:08.529
Well, for people listening then, firstly, where

01:14:08.529 --> 01:14:10.550
can they find Helicopters Without Borders if

01:14:10.550 --> 01:14:15.130
they want to support in some way? Yeah, our website's

01:14:15.130 --> 01:14:17.010
a great place, you know, helicopterswithoutborders

01:14:17.010 --> 01:14:20.619
.org. um on instagram but you know at the same

01:14:20.619 --> 01:14:23.060
time like we're still a small organization you'll

01:14:23.060 --> 01:14:26.140
see the email up on our website choose an email

01:14:26.140 --> 01:14:28.239
that's forwarded directly to my email and i'd

01:14:28.239 --> 01:14:30.159
be happy to answer any questions share a little

01:14:30.159 --> 01:14:32.880
bit about what we're doing uh and set up a call

01:14:32.880 --> 01:14:35.920
um so i think those are the best modes of communication

01:14:35.920 --> 01:14:39.840
for us beautiful and any areas on social media

01:14:39.840 --> 01:14:43.000
they can find you yeah we're on i think we're

01:14:43.000 --> 01:14:46.840
instagram facebook and linkedin um are our channels

01:14:46.840 --> 01:14:51.189
right now Beautiful. Well, I want to thank Dave

01:14:51.189 --> 01:14:53.449
again for making this connection. And I want

01:14:53.449 --> 01:14:56.050
to thank you. It's been such an interesting perspective.

01:14:56.289 --> 01:14:58.310
I mean, you having, you know, firstly, this,

01:14:58.369 --> 01:15:00.329
this father that was in this industry and then

01:15:00.329 --> 01:15:02.550
the fire side and the EMS side, and then you

01:15:02.550 --> 01:15:05.369
finding the altruism that you saw in your, your

01:15:05.369 --> 01:15:07.369
father and your uncle, and then creating this

01:15:07.369 --> 01:15:10.250
amazing organization. It's been a phenomenal

01:15:10.250 --> 01:15:12.409
conversation. So I want to thank you so much

01:15:12.409 --> 01:15:14.810
for being so generous with your time and coming

01:15:14.810 --> 01:15:18.020
on the behind the shield podcast today. Yeah,

01:15:18.060 --> 01:15:19.640
thank you, James. Thanks for everything you do

01:15:19.640 --> 01:15:22.119
and your past too, man. It was a pleasure to

01:15:22.119 --> 01:15:24.140
meet you and I look forward to the next one if

01:15:24.140 --> 01:15:25.079
it happens in the near future.