WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.760 Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As 00:00:01.760 --> 00:00:03.580 always, my name is James Geering, and this week 00:00:03.580 --> 00:00:05.820 it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show 00:00:05.820 --> 00:00:10.119 Wayne and Regina Smith. Now, I know Wayne and 00:00:10.119 --> 00:00:12.800 Regina from Iron Legion Strength and Combat, 00:00:12.900 --> 00:00:15.140 where we've trained together for over 10 years. 00:00:15.839 --> 00:00:19.440 Wayne has been in corrections for almost 30 years, 00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:22.420 is a law enforcement instructor, defensive tactics 00:00:22.420 --> 00:00:26.440 instructor, and a member of a special team. Regina 00:00:26.440 --> 00:00:30.059 has been in correction for over 22 years. is 00:00:30.059 --> 00:00:32.299 a sergeant for Marion County Sheriff's Office 00:00:32.299 --> 00:00:35.280 and a captain for the Florida Department of Corrections. 00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:38.299 As you can imagine, the dynamic not only of their 00:00:38.299 --> 00:00:41.159 experience, but being in corrections as a married 00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:43.039 couple, this was an incredible conversation. 00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:47.280 We discuss a host of topics from their journeys 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:50.140 into corrections, some of the immense challenges 00:00:50.140 --> 00:00:53.740 for our correctional officers, breaking the recidivism 00:00:53.740 --> 00:00:58.740 in Florida prisons, gangs, addiction, mentorship. 00:00:59.710 --> 00:01:02.609 the importance of fitness, and so much more. 00:01:03.210 --> 00:01:05.609 Now, before we get to this incredible conversation, 00:01:05.849 --> 00:01:08.450 as I say every week, please just take a moment. 00:01:08.790 --> 00:01:11.810 Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe 00:01:11.810 --> 00:01:15.590 to the show, leave feedback, and leave a rating. 00:01:16.109 --> 00:01:19.650 Every single five star rating truly does elevate 00:01:19.650 --> 00:01:22.390 this podcast, therefore making it easier for 00:01:22.390 --> 00:01:25.950 others to find. And this is a free library of 00:01:25.950 --> 00:01:30.430 over twelve hundred episodes now. So all I ask 00:01:30.430 --> 00:01:33.790 in return is that you help share these incredible 00:01:33.790 --> 00:01:37.129 men and women stories so I can get them to every 00:01:37.129 --> 00:01:40.250 single person on planet Earth who needs to hear 00:01:40.250 --> 00:01:43.769 them. So with that being said, I introduce to 00:01:43.769 --> 00:02:07.790 you. Wayne and Regina Smith. Enjoy. Wayne and 00:02:07.790 --> 00:02:10.770 Regina, I want to start by saying... thank you 00:02:10.770 --> 00:02:12.349 for coming to the house i know this has been 00:02:12.349 --> 00:02:14.610 long time coming i think it's literally in years 00:02:14.610 --> 00:02:17.530 that we've we've tried to get this going so i 00:02:17.530 --> 00:02:21.729 want to firstly welcome you to my home so for 00:02:21.729 --> 00:02:24.789 people listening um obviously as i was saying 00:02:24.789 --> 00:02:27.750 before we hit record when people are in law enforcement 00:02:27.750 --> 00:02:29.629 and corrections there's some areas obviously 00:02:29.629 --> 00:02:31.330 that we don't want to just put out there but 00:02:31.330 --> 00:02:33.689 for people listening where roughly would they 00:02:33.689 --> 00:02:35.729 be finding you if you were at home like as far 00:02:35.729 --> 00:02:39.800 as where in the country um I guess you could 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:43.060 say in Ocala, just outside Ocala. Regina would 00:02:43.060 --> 00:02:45.620 be right in Ocala, as far as the city goes. But 00:02:45.620 --> 00:02:48.479 we are outside. Where I work at is outside of 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:51.259 Ocala in a small area called Lowell, Florida. 00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:55.360 Yeah. And we have exactly three institutions 00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:58.639 out there, two female institutions and a male 00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:01.879 institution in that area. And we also have a 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:04.000 juvenile, and I just thought about a juvenile 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:09.879 institution in that area. Well, again, Being 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:12.419 mindful of not going too deep, I'll ask you the 00:03:12.419 --> 00:03:14.199 kind of background questions just so that people 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:17.060 can have an understanding of the journey that 00:03:17.060 --> 00:03:19.719 you came through. So starting with you, Wayne, 00:03:19.879 --> 00:03:22.039 tell me where you were born and tell me a little 00:03:22.039 --> 00:03:27.740 bit about your family dynamic, what your parents 00:03:27.740 --> 00:03:31.699 did, how many siblings. Okay. I was born in Gainesville, 00:03:31.740 --> 00:03:34.460 Florida, but I was raised in a small town called 00:03:34.460 --> 00:03:37.099 Archer, Archer, Florida, which is like maybe... 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:41.280 15 minutes outside of Gainesville. I was raised 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:44.259 with my brother, who's four years younger than 00:03:44.259 --> 00:03:47.580 I am, my mother and father. My father worked 00:03:47.580 --> 00:03:50.659 for the VA hospital in Gainesville. He was a 00:03:50.659 --> 00:03:54.620 custodian there. And my mom worked for the University 00:03:54.620 --> 00:03:57.780 of Florida at Shands, and she was head of housekeeping 00:03:57.780 --> 00:04:00.620 in that area. So both of them kind of worked 00:04:00.620 --> 00:04:06.469 in the custodial type field as I grew up. Other 00:04:06.469 --> 00:04:08.030 than that, it was just always just me and my 00:04:08.030 --> 00:04:11.710 brother. And then my parents, until my parents 00:04:11.710 --> 00:04:16.389 divorced. But we was adult by the time they divorced. 00:04:16.569 --> 00:04:18.569 They didn't divorce when we were kids. So we 00:04:18.569 --> 00:04:23.370 had a full childhood with them. I think our custodians 00:04:23.370 --> 00:04:26.629 in the hospitals are the true unsung heroes. 00:04:26.750 --> 00:04:29.290 Oh, yeah. Being a paramedic and you guys seeing 00:04:29.290 --> 00:04:31.970 what happens in the jail too. Talk to me about 00:04:31.970 --> 00:04:33.910 some of the stories you heard from your parents 00:04:33.910 --> 00:04:36.370 and this kind of highlight. you know how important 00:04:36.370 --> 00:04:40.990 they are in that system well um just most of 00:04:40.990 --> 00:04:44.610 the story is just you know people sometimes they 00:04:44.610 --> 00:04:46.689 complain about how their areas are clean but 00:04:46.689 --> 00:04:49.230 they don't understand how hard it is to get certain 00:04:49.230 --> 00:04:53.410 people in those areas a lot of times um uh my 00:04:53.410 --> 00:04:56.819 mom she started out like doing a lot of the cleaning. 00:04:56.860 --> 00:04:58.680 She was a regular custodian. Then she worked 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:01.220 her way up to be a supervisor in the department. 00:05:01.899 --> 00:05:04.000 And my dad, he was just one of them types. He 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:06.600 didn't care. He just went to work, and then he 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:09.860 did his side jobs. He did a lot of floors and 00:05:09.860 --> 00:05:15.060 stuff outside of his regular job. So he did, 00:05:15.060 --> 00:05:17.019 like, cleaning work. He worked for the post office. 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:18.779 He had three different post offices that he worked 00:05:18.779 --> 00:05:21.199 for, that he cleaned up for them also. So he 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:26.439 worked all the time. They never really talked 00:05:26.439 --> 00:05:29.800 about issues other than people complaining at 00:05:29.800 --> 00:05:32.860 the wrong time or just asking for outrageous 00:05:32.860 --> 00:05:34.740 stuff for them to get done and they don't have 00:05:34.740 --> 00:05:36.939 the means to get it done. Or they're not even 00:05:36.939 --> 00:05:39.759 paying for them to even do these jobs, but they're 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:41.759 always asking them to do it. So that was like 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:44.939 the biggest issue with them. Was your home immaculate 00:05:44.939 --> 00:05:47.500 or were they so sick of cleaning that? it wasn't 00:05:47.500 --> 00:05:52.339 tidy no honestly no every weekend everybody had 00:05:52.339 --> 00:05:55.959 a job every weekend you got up got dressed and 00:05:55.959 --> 00:05:57.439 got out the house because mom was going to clean 00:05:57.439 --> 00:06:00.160 the house um she cleaned a lot because my dad 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:02.399 smoked so a lot of times he smoked in the house 00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:04.839 so a lot of times she liked to air a house out 00:06:04.839 --> 00:06:07.600 every week she grew plants and stuff there were 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:11.139 certain plants that she grew that um they were 00:06:11.139 --> 00:06:13.550 basically made they could soak up a lot of the 00:06:13.550 --> 00:06:15.629 toxins and stuff from the smoke because she wanted 00:06:15.629 --> 00:06:18.389 to make sure we didn't catch cancer from him 00:06:18.389 --> 00:06:20.410 smoking in the house all the time. So every week 00:06:20.410 --> 00:06:22.870 she would open up all the doors, did a house 00:06:22.870 --> 00:06:25.709 cleaning. But we had to get out and we did something 00:06:25.709 --> 00:06:28.129 in the yard between mowing the lawn, raking, 00:06:28.310 --> 00:06:31.930 or we didn't go work in the fields with the other 00:06:31.930 --> 00:06:33.810 parts of our family. So we had a lot of family 00:06:33.810 --> 00:06:37.269 that actually did field work a lot, loading water 00:06:37.269 --> 00:06:41.209 mills, picking tobacco. picking peanuts, all 00:06:41.209 --> 00:06:42.970 that kind of stuff throughout the season. So 00:06:42.970 --> 00:06:45.529 we always had a job every weekend. It wasn't 00:06:45.529 --> 00:06:48.310 just sitting up watching cartoons all day. We 00:06:48.310 --> 00:06:50.870 had to get up and go. That is hard work, too. 00:06:50.910 --> 00:06:53.910 I grew up on a farm and it didn't have crops 00:06:53.910 --> 00:06:57.170 per se. So it was more like stones. We'd pick 00:06:57.170 --> 00:06:59.610 up stones so that they could grow more stuff. 00:06:59.709 --> 00:07:02.189 But, you know, lambing and all that stuff. But, 00:07:02.209 --> 00:07:04.449 yeah, I think that kind of work, I don't think 00:07:04.449 --> 00:07:07.649 people realize. you know how hard it is yes i 00:07:07.649 --> 00:07:11.629 hated um tobacco it was the worst i would rather 00:07:11.629 --> 00:07:16.430 do watermelons all year round yeah that tobacco 00:07:16.430 --> 00:07:20.810 just itch your skin and it just was just it just 00:07:20.810 --> 00:07:24.250 didn't like picking it every year but other than 00:07:24.250 --> 00:07:27.189 that it was just hot work that's all it was yeah 00:07:27.189 --> 00:07:29.589 and what were you playing and doing as far as 00:07:29.589 --> 00:07:31.189 sport and exercise when you're in the school 00:07:31.189 --> 00:07:35.129 ages I played football, basketball, and ran track 00:07:35.129 --> 00:07:37.870 every year. I did a lot of that just so I didn't 00:07:37.870 --> 00:07:40.769 have to go home a lot of times. Because I know 00:07:40.769 --> 00:07:42.149 if I went home, there was something I was going 00:07:42.149 --> 00:07:44.930 to have to do. I loved playing football, and 00:07:44.930 --> 00:07:48.149 I loved playing football, and I ran track. But 00:07:48.149 --> 00:07:50.750 I played basketball just to fill up that section 00:07:50.750 --> 00:07:53.670 in between football and track. So I did that 00:07:53.670 --> 00:07:56.769 every year. I played all the way from elementary 00:07:56.769 --> 00:08:00.319 school all the way through high school. I went 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:03.360 to play college ball, but got homesick, came 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:07.660 back, which was kind of silly, but I was very 00:08:07.660 --> 00:08:11.060 far away at that time. Whereabouts? Kansas. Okay. 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:14.420 Yeah. Bethel College, Kansas. And I really didn't 00:08:14.420 --> 00:08:18.459 stay long. I was just like out of there. Played 00:08:18.459 --> 00:08:22.560 semi -pro for a year. And then ever since then, 00:08:22.620 --> 00:08:25.480 I've just liked working. What position in football? 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:29.240 In high school, I played fullback and linebacker. 00:08:30.759 --> 00:08:32.860 When I went to college, they were going to move 00:08:32.860 --> 00:08:35.139 me to cornerback because I wasn't big enough 00:08:35.139 --> 00:08:39.100 for linebacker. But I was going to play cornerback. 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:43.240 And to see my pro, I played cornerback in that 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:46.960 field. I played some running back through high 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:50.379 school, which is, you know, we get the ball more, 00:08:50.460 --> 00:08:54.710 but fullback most of the time. Yeah. Well, Regina, 00:08:54.850 --> 00:08:57.610 before we move forward in Wayne's kind of career 00:08:57.610 --> 00:08:59.669 progression, let's start with you. Tell me where 00:08:59.669 --> 00:09:01.610 you were born. Tell me a little about your family 00:09:01.610 --> 00:09:03.590 dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings. 00:09:05.190 --> 00:09:10.710 I grew up in Reddick, Florida, Lowell. My mom 00:09:10.710 --> 00:09:14.210 and my father. My father was more of the breadwinner. 00:09:14.289 --> 00:09:18.470 He was a carpenter at Gainesville School Board, 00:09:18.570 --> 00:09:21.740 and he was there for 36 years. My mom was more 00:09:21.740 --> 00:09:24.799 of a housekeeper for doctors and lawyers and 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:27.440 stuff like that. So my father was more the breadwinner. 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:33.299 It was nine of us, but I only grew up with two 00:09:33.299 --> 00:09:35.960 sisters and a brother. So it was really four 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:37.720 of us out of the nine of us that really grew 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:41.080 up together. Is that because of age or just kind 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:43.000 of families moving apart? Just families moving 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:46.399 apart. Okay. Gotcha. What were you playing as 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:48.429 far as sports and exercise back then? I went 00:09:48.429 --> 00:09:52.330 really big on sports growing up in school. So 00:09:52.330 --> 00:09:53.850 what did you do? Were you a musician, artist? 00:09:54.230 --> 00:09:56.250 What was your outlet? Just trying to get through 00:09:56.250 --> 00:10:00.309 school. That's it. And get out of it. That was 00:10:00.309 --> 00:10:03.110 it. I understand. All right. Well, let's stay 00:10:03.110 --> 00:10:05.250 with you then. So when you were in the school 00:10:05.250 --> 00:10:07.809 ages, were you dreaming of corrections or was 00:10:07.809 --> 00:10:10.350 there something else? Not at all. Never in my 00:10:10.350 --> 00:10:13.090 life would I have thought, you know, do you even 00:10:13.090 --> 00:10:15.269 go into correction? I have no family law enforcement. 00:10:15.669 --> 00:10:18.519 It was not even a thought. thought process. You 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:20.440 know, I was thinking more of nursing or something 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:22.940 like that as I grew up, but it didn't work out 00:10:22.940 --> 00:10:25.659 that way. So now I'm in corrections. So how did 00:10:25.659 --> 00:10:27.740 you find yourself in there? Where did you go 00:10:27.740 --> 00:10:30.039 when you graduated? Was it straight into corrections 00:10:30.039 --> 00:10:32.320 or was it something else first? No, I tried nursing 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:34.860 first, CNA. Then it didn't work out too well. 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:36.840 Then I got pregnant and I was like, you know 00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:39.539 what? I got to choose something that I like that's 00:10:39.539 --> 00:10:43.139 more of me. And I chose corrections. Okay. Well, 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:45.899 Wayne, let's catch you up then. So you do semi 00:10:45.899 --> 00:10:49.210 -pro ball. you're not a fan of um you know toto 00:10:49.210 --> 00:10:52.230 and dorothy in kansas so you come back here how 00:10:52.230 --> 00:10:54.629 did you find yourself into the world of corrections 00:10:54.629 --> 00:10:58.070 um i i was working like three jobs i worked at 00:10:58.070 --> 00:11:01.210 publix tj maxx and then i was like doing a lot 00:11:01.210 --> 00:11:05.269 of side jobs and my brother he worked in corrections 00:11:05.269 --> 00:11:07.750 first and he wanted me to do but i i didn't want 00:11:07.750 --> 00:11:09.629 to do corrections at all that was like the last 00:11:09.629 --> 00:11:15.309 thing on my mind but at the time um my aunt actually 00:11:15.309 --> 00:11:18.009 made me Sign up for corrections. She brought 00:11:18.009 --> 00:11:20.889 me an application to my job at TJ Maxx. She said, 00:11:21.049 --> 00:11:23.049 I'm tired of you working three jobs, killing 00:11:23.049 --> 00:11:25.509 yourself. You can get all the money that you 00:11:25.509 --> 00:11:27.929 make in these three jobs at this one place. You 00:11:27.929 --> 00:11:29.730 got three days to fill this application out. 00:11:29.830 --> 00:11:31.710 You better call me in three days and it better 00:11:31.710 --> 00:11:33.990 be in. If it's not, I'm going to kick your ass. 00:11:34.850 --> 00:11:36.330 Sounds like she should have been in corrections. 00:11:38.299 --> 00:11:41.919 And my aunt is like all of five foot two or whatever. 00:11:42.340 --> 00:11:43.940 Loved her to death because she's always been 00:11:43.940 --> 00:11:47.759 like a second mom to me past my mom. So I got 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:52.299 it in. I put the application in. And once I got 00:11:52.299 --> 00:11:55.620 it in, finally, you know, got the job and everything. 00:11:55.919 --> 00:11:59.360 Almost quit the first week. But that's what got 00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:01.820 me into creation. Yes. So that was what I was 00:12:01.820 --> 00:12:04.769 going to ask. So staying with you. not having 00:12:04.769 --> 00:12:06.570 any history, and I'd never been a firefighter, 00:12:06.590 --> 00:12:09.450 so I kind of went in blind as well. When you 00:12:09.450 --> 00:12:12.929 first went through the front door, what, if any, 00:12:13.049 --> 00:12:14.850 were the misconceptions of the job? And then 00:12:14.850 --> 00:12:16.509 let's stay with what you just said. What made 00:12:16.509 --> 00:12:20.429 you almost tap out after a week? Well, I don't 00:12:20.429 --> 00:12:21.990 even think it was a full week. Like the first 00:12:21.990 --> 00:12:25.529 day, I almost quit. After doing the whole process 00:12:25.529 --> 00:12:28.809 and everything and finally actually walked on 00:12:28.809 --> 00:12:32.409 the actual compound, it was almost overwhelming. 00:12:33.629 --> 00:12:36.149 Because, you know, growing up and stuff like 00:12:36.149 --> 00:12:38.470 that, you hear about, you know, how many people 00:12:38.470 --> 00:12:42.149 of my color end up in prison. And then to actually 00:12:42.149 --> 00:12:46.429 see it firsthand, like, almost took me out. Because 00:12:46.429 --> 00:12:49.850 I didn't really understand until I saw it. And 00:12:49.850 --> 00:12:55.370 just walking around and seeing the number of 00:12:55.370 --> 00:12:59.049 men, black men, that was in there just almost 00:12:59.049 --> 00:13:02.600 was overwhelming at the time. So it took me a 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:05.759 little bit of soul searching to the point of 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:09.799 their story is not my story because I'm here 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:12.240 for a reason. They were here because of their 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:14.399 reason and I'm here for another reason, which 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:17.299 is a lot more important than worrying about the 00:13:17.299 --> 00:13:20.820 dynamics of who is in there. It's the fact of 00:13:20.820 --> 00:13:24.399 what I was doing it for. So that was like the 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:26.240 biggest thing I had to overcome in the beginning. 00:13:26.340 --> 00:13:29.539 It's just the dynamics of just walking and seeing. 00:13:30.580 --> 00:13:35.259 two three four hundred black men just in blues 00:13:35.259 --> 00:13:37.360 walking around and you know they're not going 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:39.940 home like right now so that was like the biggest 00:13:39.940 --> 00:13:43.940 issue that i had to overcome working there Back 00:13:43.940 --> 00:13:46.019 then, because how many years ago was that? 29 00:13:46.019 --> 00:13:50.820 years. So back then, first impression, what were 00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:53.120 you thinking and what were you told was the reason 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:56.039 behind the disproportionate number of African 00:13:56.039 --> 00:13:59.320 -Americans being in there? Just, you know, the 00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:05.320 rumors that they have or they're picked on. What's 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:10.720 the word I'm looking for? You just get picked 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:12.840 out just because of the color of your skin. Prejudice. 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:16.200 Prejudice and stuff like that. So then to see 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:17.919 it, it was like, oh, there must be something 00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:20.740 to that. It has to be because there's no reason 00:14:20.740 --> 00:14:25.039 why this man is going to be in there. But after 00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:28.899 a while, you start learning. When you start going 00:14:28.899 --> 00:14:31.960 through what they're in there for, and then sometimes 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:34.320 you just look, you need to be in here. There's 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:36.139 no reason for you to be walking on the street. 00:14:37.340 --> 00:14:39.659 There are some, you're like, okay, that probably 00:14:39.659 --> 00:14:41.879 would have been much, but that was like the biggest 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:46.620 thing. You hear that, you know, you got picked 00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:48.259 out just because of the color of your skin. That's 00:14:48.259 --> 00:14:50.820 how you ended up, or somebody set you up, or 00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:52.600 they didn't even listen to what your defense 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:54.559 said. It just wasn't what their original said. 00:14:54.740 --> 00:14:57.629 So I think that was the biggest thing. hit me 00:14:57.629 --> 00:14:59.470 first when i got there so i was like well okay 00:14:59.470 --> 00:15:01.450 it must have been something to that so why am 00:15:01.450 --> 00:15:03.909 i trying to get into this so that was the biggest 00:15:03.909 --> 00:15:06.149 thing i had to get past first walking in the 00:15:06.149 --> 00:15:09.929 door regina first impressions when you first 00:15:09.929 --> 00:15:13.470 started Not really. You know, it didn't really. 00:15:13.509 --> 00:15:16.429 It was more of seeing so many females because 00:15:16.429 --> 00:15:18.649 I never really worked at another unit besides 00:15:18.649 --> 00:15:21.529 females until I got to the jail. So it was just 00:15:21.529 --> 00:15:23.429 like overwhelming. It was like, you know, they 00:15:23.429 --> 00:15:26.110 look at us as nice and gentle. You know, the 00:15:26.110 --> 00:15:29.490 females, they can do no wrong. And I, you know, 00:15:29.490 --> 00:15:32.129 going to a prison when I where I started it, 00:15:32.210 --> 00:15:35.289 you're like, OK. And then listening to some of 00:15:35.289 --> 00:15:36.950 the, you know, crimes and stuff that they've 00:15:36.950 --> 00:15:39.700 done and broke. And I was like, oh, you know, 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:41.580 they really need to think differently about, 00:15:41.580 --> 00:15:43.720 you know, the females and stuff like that. But, 00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:46.940 you know, it was just just seeing the crazy numbers 00:15:46.940 --> 00:15:49.500 of females, you know, and dealing with them. 00:15:49.539 --> 00:15:52.860 And it's like, OK, I just I got to stay focused. 00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:56.220 But, you know, it was just it's I guess just 00:15:56.220 --> 00:15:59.080 part of life, you know, the how they were raised, 00:15:59.220 --> 00:16:02.000 you know, what type of men they deal with. So 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:03.759 it was just, you know, just dealing with that. 00:16:05.230 --> 00:16:07.570 Just before we progress forward, because I think 00:16:07.570 --> 00:16:10.730 this confuses a lot of people, can you give us 00:16:10.730 --> 00:16:15.409 the differences between the jail, a state prison, 00:16:15.669 --> 00:16:18.210 a federal prison, et cetera? It's kind of what 00:16:18.210 --> 00:16:21.429 the tiers are. The look at the differences, when 00:16:21.429 --> 00:16:25.169 you look at a jail or detention deputy, they're 00:16:25.169 --> 00:16:28.529 dealing with people that have been charged, but 00:16:28.529 --> 00:16:32.070 they're not being convicted. So the jail is just 00:16:32.070 --> 00:16:35.070 free people waiting to get. Get a sentence in 00:16:35.070 --> 00:16:37.889 this basically because either one either they're 00:16:37.889 --> 00:16:42.029 going to get bailed out or they're going to have 00:16:42.029 --> 00:16:44.730 to stay. And sometimes they end up with a citizen 00:16:44.730 --> 00:16:46.710 sentence that they could do at the jail. But 00:16:46.710 --> 00:16:48.549 for the most part, they're just they're just 00:16:48.549 --> 00:16:52.929 waiting. When you get to the state prison, they've 00:16:52.929 --> 00:16:55.029 been convicted. They've been convicted. They've 00:16:55.029 --> 00:17:00.019 been given a sentence. a release date or maybe 00:17:00.019 --> 00:17:02.980 not even a receiver release date. This is where 00:17:02.980 --> 00:17:05.440 they're actually going to do that time. Federal 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:08.720 prison is the same thing, but most of the ones 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:11.240 in the feds are there for federal charges. They're 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:14.579 not there just for. robbing the corner store 00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:16.519 this other way they're in there for robbing the 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:19.660 corner bank okay you know what i mean so there's 00:17:19.660 --> 00:17:21.960 a difference on certain charges yeah yeah certain 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:24.680 charges or they get federal charges from drug 00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:27.400 related stuff and so like so those are the differences 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:33.619 when i look back at the tv show cops back in 00:17:33.619 --> 00:17:36.640 the day And they have those massive chases, you 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:38.539 know, vehicle pursuits, and then there's a foot 00:17:38.539 --> 00:17:40.240 pursuit, and then they tackle them. There's a 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:42.240 big fight, and then they find a baggie of weed. 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:45.299 Now, fast forward to today, you know, a lot of 00:17:45.299 --> 00:17:46.960 our professions are realizing that's actually 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:50.279 very helpful for a lot of things. Were there 00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:55.519 groups of people in there back then that today 00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:57.980 have charged? wouldn't be in there anymore because 00:17:57.980 --> 00:18:00.480 of the way that we've kind of progressed viewing 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:02.960 prohibition? I'm pretty sure there's a lot that 00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:06.220 probably wouldn't be. There are a few that because 00:18:06.220 --> 00:18:08.980 of the amount that they had was still causing 00:18:08.980 --> 00:18:12.859 to be in there. But you have to look at the differences 00:18:12.859 --> 00:18:16.859 between personal use and distribution. If you're 00:18:16.859 --> 00:18:19.539 not distributing it and you have a certain amount, 00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:22.200 it's not just for personal use. So now you don't 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:24.559 want to pass away. How the guidelines are going. 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:28.660 But back then, you know, any little thing we 00:18:28.660 --> 00:18:31.259 could get you put in jail or prison. But now, 00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:34.299 you know, if you have a card or a certain amount, 00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:36.460 they're just overlooking just a little bit. You 00:18:36.460 --> 00:18:38.819 might have to come in for some other reason, 00:18:38.900 --> 00:18:41.259 see court or whatever. But it's not the automatic. 00:18:41.259 --> 00:18:45.099 You could go to go to prison. You know, that's 00:18:45.099 --> 00:18:47.619 a big step. I mean, a huge difference from then 00:18:47.619 --> 00:18:50.059 to now. You still have people get in trouble. 00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:53.400 And reference to it, but not so much as back 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:57.519 to him. Have you seen the documentary 13th by 00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:02.299 Ava DuVernay? I don't think so. It's basically, 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:05.240 it's a really interesting documentary. It's showing 00:19:05.240 --> 00:19:09.480 how, you know, back in the day, because the kind 00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:12.079 of foundation of drug prohibition came right 00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:14.559 after the epic failure of alcohol prohibition. 00:19:14.579 --> 00:19:17.160 Yeah. And so the reefer madness and all that 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:22.250 stuff and loitering. And the story is basically 00:19:22.250 --> 00:19:24.390 telling that you had this one that went away. 00:19:24.750 --> 00:19:29.329 And then when that was put in, what was slavery 00:19:29.329 --> 00:19:33.869 is now within the four walls. And now manpower 00:19:33.869 --> 00:19:36.049 is being used by people who are incarcerated. 00:19:36.089 --> 00:19:39.289 And there's even the private prisons. And again, 00:19:39.490 --> 00:19:43.589 where is that line between someone has done something 00:19:43.589 --> 00:19:46.440 wrong and they need to be behind bars? well, 00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:47.960 we need more people to fill the prisons because 00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:50.859 we need people to, you know, be working in certain 00:19:50.859 --> 00:19:53.059 areas. And I thought it was a very interesting 00:19:53.059 --> 00:19:55.759 thing. And she's obviously storytelling the fact 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:57.880 that, again, a lot of minorities are being targeted. 00:19:58.019 --> 00:20:01.039 But, you know, what are the checks and balances 00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:03.839 between some of these industries in these prisons, 00:20:04.059 --> 00:20:08.079 you know, and lowering recidivism, like trying 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:10.779 to, you know, actually address a number of people 00:20:10.779 --> 00:20:12.819 we have behind bars? Well, the thing that they're 00:20:12.819 --> 00:20:16.359 having now that has really been, pushed the heaviest 00:20:16.359 --> 00:20:20.900 is reentry. Trying to keep people from coming 00:20:20.900 --> 00:20:22.380 back because a lot of ones that are in prison 00:20:22.380 --> 00:20:24.400 are ones that are coming back to prison, not 00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:26.200 the fact that I'm going into prison. Some of 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:27.400 them, they get out and they go right back. They 00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:30.839 go right back. Because they haven't picked up 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:32.960 no trade or they haven't learned anything while 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:36.500 they was in prison. So they went to working more 00:20:36.500 --> 00:20:40.240 on reentry to teach them to not go out and do 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:42.039 what they did in the beginning so they won't 00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:46.269 come back. So that's one of the biggest things 00:20:46.269 --> 00:20:48.869 that they've been working on. Working on more 00:20:48.869 --> 00:20:52.049 volunteers, being able to come in and talk to 00:20:52.049 --> 00:20:54.369 them, help them through things, help them to 00:20:54.369 --> 00:20:58.069 have an outlet when they get out, not just getting 00:20:58.069 --> 00:20:59.569 out and now I'm going back and hanging out with 00:20:59.569 --> 00:21:01.150 the same boys that got me in there in the first 00:21:01.150 --> 00:21:03.849 place. So those are a lot of things that they're 00:21:03.849 --> 00:21:06.029 picking up like real heavy right now. It's like 00:21:06.029 --> 00:21:12.319 re -entry. Changing their lifestyles in prison 00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:16.579 has been a big thing that they've changed with 00:21:16.579 --> 00:21:20.599 the prison system right now. I think we have 00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:24.000 the highest level of recidivism in the world, 00:21:24.039 --> 00:21:28.140 if I'm not mistaken. And I had the superintendent 00:21:28.140 --> 00:21:31.079 of Bastoy Prison in Norway who has the lowest 00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:34.619 recidivism in the world. And it was interesting 00:21:34.619 --> 00:21:36.619 because I think we call what we do the Philadelphia. 00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:41.619 model if i've got that right um and for example 00:21:41.619 --> 00:21:45.019 this one prison is on the island outside oslo 00:21:45.019 --> 00:21:48.259 there are everything from petty crime through 00:21:48.259 --> 00:21:51.809 to murderers on there and they live in basically 00:21:51.809 --> 00:21:54.049 like this they live in the housing house i've 00:21:54.049 --> 00:21:56.589 seen i've seen it yeah yeah and so they they 00:21:56.589 --> 00:21:58.549 cook they clean for themselves they live together 00:21:58.549 --> 00:22:01.190 they go to school they go to work and it's exactly 00:22:01.190 --> 00:22:03.930 what you're saying the norwegian philosophy is 00:22:03.930 --> 00:22:06.109 95 of prisoners are going to move back into your 00:22:06.109 --> 00:22:08.670 street one day so why don't we take this time 00:22:08.670 --> 00:22:11.470 that we have them and give them a skill set and 00:22:11.470 --> 00:22:13.690 get them to break away maybe from the the group 00:22:13.690 --> 00:22:15.650 that they're with before yeah so that when they 00:22:15.650 --> 00:22:17.349 move back they're already i think there's even 00:22:17.349 --> 00:22:19.670 like work programs and that kind of thing And 00:22:19.670 --> 00:22:22.789 I don't understand if there's places around the 00:22:22.789 --> 00:22:24.230 world that are doing things that are working, 00:22:24.349 --> 00:22:27.690 why we don't look stronger at them. And I know 00:22:27.690 --> 00:22:29.490 the Northwest, some of the prisons up there have 00:22:29.490 --> 00:22:32.430 already started doing that. Even here, we have, 00:22:32.630 --> 00:22:35.589 like I said, we have the re -entry program. And 00:22:35.589 --> 00:22:38.650 then we have, like a lot of offices call it, 00:22:38.650 --> 00:22:42.829 call it a cupcake camp. The ones that actually... 00:22:44.190 --> 00:22:46.190 They're in prison, but they've been doing the 00:22:46.190 --> 00:22:48.690 right things in prison. So there are certain 00:22:48.690 --> 00:22:51.490 prisons where a lot of the rules that are the 00:22:51.490 --> 00:22:54.130 harder prisons aren't implied at that prison. 00:22:54.289 --> 00:22:56.230 So they have a little more freedom to what the 00:22:56.230 --> 00:22:58.650 stuff they do. They're not allowed to actually 00:22:58.650 --> 00:23:00.829 leave the institution unless they're on the work 00:23:00.829 --> 00:23:04.690 squad or something like that. But they're allowed 00:23:04.690 --> 00:23:07.369 to do. More stuff like we call free world stuff. 00:23:07.430 --> 00:23:09.450 They're able to go in and out dormitories pretty 00:23:09.450 --> 00:23:11.630 much when they want to. They have some areas 00:23:11.630 --> 00:23:13.269 where they actually have game rooms where they 00:23:13.269 --> 00:23:15.450 can actually play games and stuff. Video games, 00:23:15.509 --> 00:23:18.809 not just card games, video games. Able to sit 00:23:18.809 --> 00:23:20.829 and watch movies and stuff that are playing on 00:23:20.829 --> 00:23:24.609 TV. So they're trying to soften it a little bit 00:23:24.609 --> 00:23:27.069 more so they're not so hard when they actually 00:23:27.069 --> 00:23:28.829 do get out. You know what I'm saying? So they're 00:23:28.829 --> 00:23:30.849 able to actually see a lot of the stuff that 00:23:30.849 --> 00:23:34.529 is going on. And you was talking about the... 00:23:35.309 --> 00:23:37.289 They're free labor and stuff like that. They've 00:23:37.289 --> 00:23:42.349 gotten away from that tremendously. They do have 00:23:42.349 --> 00:23:44.609 what we call work squads that do go out and help 00:23:44.609 --> 00:23:46.769 with road work and stuff like that. They help 00:23:46.769 --> 00:23:50.809 maintenance of certain areas, which is good. 00:23:51.069 --> 00:23:53.450 A lot of people look at it as slave labor, but 00:23:53.450 --> 00:23:55.569 a lot of times it's good for them just to get 00:23:55.569 --> 00:23:58.650 out. A lot of them really enjoy getting out. 00:23:58.710 --> 00:24:01.630 It's hard having to sit in between those fences 00:24:01.630 --> 00:24:04.690 all day, every day. To have the opportunity to 00:24:04.690 --> 00:24:07.230 go out and be able to see the free world, even 00:24:07.230 --> 00:24:09.430 though you know you're still convicted or in 00:24:09.430 --> 00:24:11.849 prison, just to have that time outside of the 00:24:11.849 --> 00:24:14.250 fence, a lot of people don't understand how much 00:24:14.250 --> 00:24:16.670 that helps them. That helps their time go by 00:24:16.670 --> 00:24:20.769 a lot faster. There's not so much working in 00:24:20.769 --> 00:24:22.849 industry stuff like they do anymore. Most of 00:24:22.849 --> 00:24:25.230 it is like road work and stuff that helps the 00:24:25.230 --> 00:24:27.430 community. Like when you have storms and stuff, 00:24:27.490 --> 00:24:29.529 you don't have enough work crews to take care 00:24:29.529 --> 00:24:32.490 of a lot of that stuff. So you have a lot of 00:24:32.490 --> 00:24:34.509 those guys that's in prison that want to come 00:24:34.509 --> 00:24:36.509 out and help because a lot of them are from the 00:24:36.509 --> 00:24:38.690 area. So why wouldn't they want to come out to 00:24:38.690 --> 00:24:40.809 help clean up and try to help their families 00:24:40.809 --> 00:24:42.910 that got to come through these areas? So a lot 00:24:42.910 --> 00:24:44.410 of people don't look at it that way. It's not 00:24:44.410 --> 00:24:47.529 the fact of just free labor. A lot of times it 00:24:47.529 --> 00:24:50.089 just helps them, helps keep their mind a little 00:24:50.089 --> 00:24:53.470 bit based on what they could get back to, not 00:24:53.470 --> 00:24:55.589 just the fact that them having to do their time, 00:24:55.789 --> 00:24:59.150 if that makes sense. That's what a lot of that 00:24:59.150 --> 00:25:03.289 entails now. Like now, at the female institution 00:25:03.289 --> 00:25:05.630 I'm at right now, we don't even send a work squad 00:25:05.630 --> 00:25:08.769 out anymore, which a lot of those females, they 00:25:08.769 --> 00:25:11.609 actually like going out, being able to be outside 00:25:11.609 --> 00:25:13.809 of the fence, go clean up and stuff like that 00:25:13.809 --> 00:25:17.650 and work their time that way. But their time 00:25:17.650 --> 00:25:19.430 seems like they go a little bit longer when they're 00:25:19.430 --> 00:25:22.289 sitting inside that fence, besides going outside 00:25:22.289 --> 00:25:25.190 the fence. well i think that see that's that's 00:25:25.190 --> 00:25:27.250 different obviously you've got these these companies 00:25:27.250 --> 00:25:29.410 that almost had like assembly lines in prisons 00:25:29.410 --> 00:25:31.869 and that's one separate thing but yeah i think 00:25:31.869 --> 00:25:33.650 you know you've you've committed a crime against 00:25:33.650 --> 00:25:35.730 your community you get to go and be a part of 00:25:35.730 --> 00:25:37.650 the solution in your community i think i think 00:25:37.650 --> 00:25:39.869 that's phenomenal yeah and that's very different 00:25:39.869 --> 00:25:42.450 than the chain gangs in arizona where they're 00:25:42.450 --> 00:25:44.990 humiliating them and that's not fixing anything 00:25:44.990 --> 00:25:52.950 no no no but i think the dynamic dynamic of Those 00:25:52.950 --> 00:25:57.990 areas, honestly, I don't know how they figure 00:25:57.990 --> 00:26:03.009 their system goals. It's just ours, I think ours 00:26:03.009 --> 00:26:06.049 is progressing a lot faster than a lot of other 00:26:06.049 --> 00:26:08.450 areas because we have other states come to our 00:26:08.450 --> 00:26:10.490 state just to kind of see how we're doing a lot 00:26:10.490 --> 00:26:13.630 of stuff so they could implement it more in their 00:26:13.630 --> 00:26:15.470 area because they're working out for a lot of 00:26:15.470 --> 00:26:18.220 stuff that we've stopped doing years ago. So, 00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:21.000 yeah, that's where we're at right now as far 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:26.759 as correction goes. Gino, I see the farm. Talk 00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:28.819 to me about that. Who does that feed and who 00:26:28.819 --> 00:26:32.279 works that? Well, it feeds mostly the male inmates. 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:35.880 Like the females don't go outside of the jail 00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:39.759 perimeter. They stay more so around the area, 00:26:39.900 --> 00:26:42.220 but the males normally do the farm and they work 00:26:42.220 --> 00:26:44.000 the kitchen and stuff like that. And the who 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:48.569 normally feeds inside the jail. Because I was 00:26:48.569 --> 00:26:53.130 talking to, there's a guy, Joel Salatin, who, 00:26:53.269 --> 00:26:55.390 if you ever watch any of those food documentaries, 00:26:55.569 --> 00:26:58.349 Forks Over Knives, he's like the farmer with 00:26:58.349 --> 00:27:00.990 the big floppy hat and the glasses. But he was 00:27:00.990 --> 00:27:05.609 saying that there's two groups that eat kind 00:27:05.609 --> 00:27:08.089 of like out -of -date food, processed food. It's 00:27:08.089 --> 00:27:11.049 our schools and our prisons. So when I think 00:27:11.049 --> 00:27:12.940 about that and then I think about... that we 00:27:12.940 --> 00:27:14.980 have a farm here and that's feeding our inmates, 00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:16.920 which obviously, you know, we know sitting here 00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:19.119 when we eat bad food, we feel like shit. When 00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:21.839 we eat good food, you feel better. I think that's 00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:25.160 an amazing model personally. Yeah, we used to 00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:27.500 have it in our area, but we don't have the farm 00:27:27.500 --> 00:27:32.079 as much anymore to where they actually farm produce 00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:35.279 and stuff to come inside the institution. Most 00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:39.240 of our stuff is outsourced and stuff, but that 00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:41.859 hasn't changed. still a lot of food you like 00:27:41.859 --> 00:27:45.000 i'm not gonna eat that but unfortunately it has 00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:49.099 to be there talk to me gina about the training 00:27:49.099 --> 00:27:52.160 so at the front the front door um well first 00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:54.420 let me rephrase that talk to me about the ratio 00:27:54.420 --> 00:27:58.579 of corrections officers to you know incarcerated 00:27:58.579 --> 00:28:01.400 people and then you know what is the training 00:28:01.400 --> 00:28:03.880 that you got at the beginning of your career 00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:11.130 um the ratio of is Corrections versus inmates 00:28:11.130 --> 00:28:14.589 is very overwhelming. You can see it's a very 00:28:14.589 --> 00:28:17.069 big difference. You know, and the training is, 00:28:17.269 --> 00:28:21.009 you know, the defensive training that we get, 00:28:21.130 --> 00:28:23.130 and it's now they're trying to get more advanced 00:28:23.130 --> 00:28:26.990 in it. But you have some people that has been 00:28:26.990 --> 00:28:29.650 in corrections for so long, it's like, I know 00:28:29.650 --> 00:28:31.789 I'm not going to be able to do this. But, you 00:28:31.789 --> 00:28:34.789 know, you get, it's like you. You're going to 00:28:34.789 --> 00:28:37.049 either have to do it, it's going to put you to 00:28:37.049 --> 00:28:39.130 a point where you're going to either retire or 00:28:39.130 --> 00:28:41.049 you're just going to have to do it. You know, 00:28:41.069 --> 00:28:44.430 because as we try to advance our training, the 00:28:44.430 --> 00:28:48.769 criminals, they get smarter too. Like, we're 00:28:48.769 --> 00:28:52.650 against some very creative people, you know, 00:28:52.650 --> 00:28:56.089 and it's just like you got to put your best foot 00:28:56.089 --> 00:28:59.630 forward because, you know, they study us 24 hours 00:28:59.630 --> 00:29:03.220 a day. They just have that time to study us and 00:29:03.220 --> 00:29:05.700 like, hey, I know who's the fit person. They 00:29:05.700 --> 00:29:08.859 know who they can get over on, who they can get, 00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:11.400 you know. They know these things just by, you 00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:13.220 know, observing us and our behavior when we come 00:29:13.220 --> 00:29:16.259 in. It's like sometimes you feel like we're outnumbered 00:29:16.259 --> 00:29:18.940 when we deal with the, you know, the criminals. 00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:25.539 We are. Yes, we are. Well, talk to me about that 00:29:25.539 --> 00:29:28.180 because, I mean, you know, we met and our nation 00:29:28.180 --> 00:29:30.559 will get to. to kind of the genesis of that in 00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:33.980 a little bit. But a lot of the people I've had 00:29:33.980 --> 00:29:37.000 from law enforcement, the ones that do take care 00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:39.079 of themselves, that do go to the gym, are the 00:29:39.079 --> 00:29:41.920 ones that usually report the least hands -on 00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:44.420 incidents because of that deterrent and the way 00:29:44.420 --> 00:29:45.940 they hold themselves. What do you see as far 00:29:45.940 --> 00:29:50.200 as that in your roles? Well... Being an instructor 00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:53.019 for the Law Enforcement Academy and Corrections 00:29:53.019 --> 00:29:57.279 Academy, the difference has changed drastically 00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:01.079 from the time when I started. There's a certain 00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:04.440 standard that they made you stay to just to be 00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:08.019 able to get through the academy. And they slowly, 00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:11.279 because of the amount of staff that it's hard 00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:13.980 to get, they like. went away from a lot of that 00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:16.279 stuff and making it easier and easier and easier 00:30:16.279 --> 00:30:18.420 just so they could get through the academy. Because 00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:21.779 the four -month academy, going through legal 00:30:21.779 --> 00:30:25.960 to, let's just say, defensive tactics, firearms, 00:30:26.460 --> 00:30:28.440 first aid, all of those different things you 00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:29.799 have to go through in that four -month period. 00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:32.579 And when I went through the academy, if you failed 00:30:32.579 --> 00:30:35.759 the test, you got fired immediately. Now you 00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:38.619 get a couple of shots to pass that test just 00:30:38.619 --> 00:30:43.630 to make it through the academy. But with the 00:30:43.630 --> 00:30:47.309 dynamics of the inmate population and one of 00:30:47.309 --> 00:30:49.529 my dormitories, I have two offices and there's 00:30:49.529 --> 00:30:55.089 180 inmates in that dormitory. So when you double 00:30:55.089 --> 00:30:57.509 that between seven dormitories, you could tell 00:30:57.509 --> 00:31:02.509 what the dynamics is. In between maybe one or 00:31:02.509 --> 00:31:04.470 two people that I actually have that monitor 00:31:04.470 --> 00:31:07.029 the yards throughout the evening because I work 00:31:07.029 --> 00:31:13.589 the night shift a lot. Being outnumbered is crazy 00:31:13.589 --> 00:31:16.450 when you actually think about it. And a lot of 00:31:16.450 --> 00:31:20.890 people don't really understand what officers 00:31:20.890 --> 00:31:24.150 go through daily just to walk a compound and 00:31:24.150 --> 00:31:28.109 make sure they make it home daily. Because there's 00:31:28.109 --> 00:31:31.089 always something that happens. I get reports 00:31:31.089 --> 00:31:33.769 every day on my phone of instances that happen 00:31:33.769 --> 00:31:36.069 on institutions where certain officers get attacked 00:31:36.069 --> 00:31:39.910 or get hit or whatever the case may be. A lot 00:31:39.910 --> 00:31:41.470 of people always, oh, well, y 'all taking advantage 00:31:41.470 --> 00:31:43.150 of the inmates, or y 'all being nasty to the 00:31:43.150 --> 00:31:45.349 inmates, or you're doing this to them. And I'm 00:31:45.349 --> 00:31:48.089 like, you got to understand, we're outnumbered 00:31:48.089 --> 00:31:51.529 by them. So if they don't have a certain level 00:31:51.529 --> 00:31:53.670 of understanding of who, what, when, and where, 00:31:53.829 --> 00:31:55.809 you're going to end up with that issue. And it's 00:31:55.809 --> 00:32:00.329 not the fact that just being nasty or mean to 00:32:00.329 --> 00:32:01.970 them, but just like being on the street, there 00:32:01.970 --> 00:32:04.509 are certain laws that you have to follow. You 00:32:04.509 --> 00:32:06.410 don't follow, you get in trouble. Same thing 00:32:06.410 --> 00:32:08.269 happened inside the prison. The prison is just 00:32:08.269 --> 00:32:12.970 a small city within itself that has its own rules 00:32:12.970 --> 00:32:15.369 and guidelines that you have to follow. You don't 00:32:15.369 --> 00:32:17.150 follow them, then there's consequences behind 00:32:17.150 --> 00:32:20.150 those you not following that. And a lot of people 00:32:20.150 --> 00:32:23.049 don't understand that or get understanding of 00:32:23.049 --> 00:32:26.509 that. Has the ratio always been so dramatic? 00:32:26.630 --> 00:32:30.390 Like so few corrections officers? Always. Because 00:32:30.390 --> 00:32:32.450 they only allow us to hire a certain amount. 00:32:33.039 --> 00:32:36.579 You can't, they're not going to pay that many 00:32:36.579 --> 00:32:39.799 officers to be there. So you only have a set 00:32:39.799 --> 00:32:41.579 amount of officers that you can actually hire 00:32:41.579 --> 00:32:44.900 to work at the institution. That doesn't even 00:32:44.900 --> 00:32:47.059 come close to how many inmates that are at the 00:32:47.059 --> 00:32:50.980 institution. Because one of our compounds, I 00:32:50.980 --> 00:32:53.059 think if I think of all the officers there, there 00:32:53.059 --> 00:33:00.589 are maybe 200, maybe 200 to 860 inmates. That 00:33:00.589 --> 00:33:03.109 ratio still don't add up. And then on the other 00:33:03.109 --> 00:33:06.789 compound, I think it's like close to maybe 300 00:33:06.789 --> 00:33:11.490 staff between all three shifts. Maybe 300 staff 00:33:11.490 --> 00:33:13.569 and it's 1 ,100 inmates that walk that compound. 00:33:14.210 --> 00:33:17.269 So the ratio is always going to be up because 00:33:17.269 --> 00:33:19.970 they would never set it to the point where you 00:33:19.970 --> 00:33:22.650 could hire that many people to be on the compound 00:33:22.650 --> 00:33:25.569 at all times. And if you had that many people. 00:33:26.539 --> 00:33:28.259 Many of us will look at each other like, okay, 00:33:28.299 --> 00:33:31.940 we got too many people here. We're walking over 00:33:31.940 --> 00:33:33.880 each other. That's how we look at it because 00:33:33.880 --> 00:33:36.180 we're so used to dealing with it in that aspect. 00:33:36.660 --> 00:33:39.140 And a lot of times it's hard for me to explain 00:33:39.140 --> 00:33:42.480 to them how beneficial it is to have too many 00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:44.839 people at that time because you never know what 00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:47.380 could happen. You never know what could happen. 00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:50.599 And a lot of people that I work with now has 00:33:50.599 --> 00:33:53.200 never been in a situation where there has actually 00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:57.200 been a riot to where it makes, totally take over 00:33:57.200 --> 00:33:59.579 an institution or try to take over the institution 00:33:59.579 --> 00:34:02.319 i've been through too and they don't understand 00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:05.859 the dynamics of you never have enough officers 00:34:05.859 --> 00:34:09.260 when they come to stuff like that it's so short 00:34:09.260 --> 00:34:11.400 -sighted because this is the same with our firefighters 00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:13.440 and i talk about it all the time but you know 00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:16.659 the the three shifts and 56 hours are now mandatory 00:34:16.659 --> 00:34:18.980 over time and now they're working 80 hours and 00:34:18.980 --> 00:34:21.059 you know the people that we need the most we 00:34:21.059 --> 00:34:24.900 seem to treat the worst Or the people that do 00:34:24.900 --> 00:34:27.500 the most, you treat the worst. Yeah, exactly. 00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:32.000 And the ones that do the least get handed everything 00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:36.619 or let go with everything, which it hasn't changed, 00:34:36.900 --> 00:34:40.599 which is crazy. Talk to me about, if you want 00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:43.980 to just kind of not be too specific, about the 00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:48.320 potential riots that you experienced. the dangers 00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:50.619 that you guys face because i would imagine because 00:34:50.619 --> 00:34:52.599 in england we had a lot of prison riots when 00:34:52.599 --> 00:34:54.460 i was young and they were deadly like prison 00:34:54.460 --> 00:34:58.480 officers were killed yeah it's um the the best 00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:01.519 the biggest thing that you could see now with 00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:03.599 some of the ones that are like coming up now 00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:06.420 or coming close to coming up now they are not 00:35:06.420 --> 00:35:09.800 so much geared towards the officers it's a lot 00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:13.039 against one another Officers can get mixed up 00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:15.579 in it or we do have some that officers actually 00:35:15.579 --> 00:35:19.300 do get really hurt badly or even killed. But 00:35:19.300 --> 00:35:26.599 there are any number of reasons of a prison riot 00:35:26.599 --> 00:35:30.719 could jump off in between just food. Yeah, food. 00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:35.159 Not having enough food at some point or certain 00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:37.480 areas feeling like they're not getting the same 00:35:37.480 --> 00:35:39.860 amount of food another area get. Because, you 00:35:39.860 --> 00:35:43.510 know. Like, on one of my compounds, 850 inmates. 00:35:43.869 --> 00:35:46.750 You start out with one dormitory, they get further 00:35:46.750 --> 00:35:49.750 certain things, then they run out. By the last 00:35:49.750 --> 00:35:51.929 dormitory they get there, they're going to kind 00:35:51.929 --> 00:35:54.030 of get annoyed with that. Like, why we got to 00:35:54.030 --> 00:35:56.409 get the leftovers of something y 'all done made 00:35:56.409 --> 00:35:58.630 up that doesn't match to what originally is supposed 00:35:58.630 --> 00:36:03.730 to have came out. Female inmates don't key on 00:36:03.730 --> 00:36:07.409 that as much, but male inmates do. And that's 00:36:07.409 --> 00:36:11.769 where your problem will come in. or um certain 00:36:11.769 --> 00:36:13.590 things that they feel like they're allowed to 00:36:13.590 --> 00:36:18.369 have between wreck time to um go into the the 00:36:18.369 --> 00:36:20.590 canteen or the store that is their store that 00:36:20.590 --> 00:36:23.130 they could go to just little small stuff like 00:36:23.130 --> 00:36:26.309 that could turn into a major disturbance instantly 00:36:26.309 --> 00:36:29.670 but the biggest thing that starts up is that 00:36:29.670 --> 00:36:32.150 child on how you feed them and how you take care 00:36:32.150 --> 00:36:34.010 of them and that could cause the biggest issue 00:36:34.010 --> 00:36:37.150 see and again that seems like that's an opportunity 00:36:37.150 --> 00:36:41.480 to staff that area better, and that way you mitigate 00:36:41.480 --> 00:36:45.219 and listen to the officers. Yeah, but when you 00:36:45.219 --> 00:36:50.179 have anywhere to 100 to 200 inmates in that area 00:36:50.179 --> 00:36:52.639 on any given time, you only have five or six 00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:55.440 officers in that area, dealing with that area. 00:36:55.820 --> 00:36:58.320 That's a lot to have to deal with at that point. 00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:02.579 And if something jumps off, it could get real 00:37:02.579 --> 00:37:05.639 bad. We have things in place to actually deal 00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:08.599 with it, but... By the time we get that in place, 00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:12.699 people can get really hurt. But yeah, the farthest 00:37:12.699 --> 00:37:16.360 things that could start riots is certain stuff 00:37:16.360 --> 00:37:18.260 that they feel like they're allowed to have or 00:37:18.260 --> 00:37:21.019 they should have. And then you have, just like 00:37:21.019 --> 00:37:23.179 with anything, you have some people that just 00:37:23.179 --> 00:37:26.619 don't do their job properly and be buttholes 00:37:26.619 --> 00:37:29.320 about their job, and it could cause a big snowball 00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:34.079 issue with everybody. Regina, when you guys have 00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:36.460 talked, obviously, for a long time, What are 00:37:36.460 --> 00:37:38.960 some of the differences working in the women's 00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:40.780 prison versus the men's? Obviously, you have 00:37:40.780 --> 00:37:45.099 experience now, Wayne, too. Yeah, I haven't experienced 00:37:45.099 --> 00:37:47.179 the men's, but the women's. Well, right now, 00:37:47.260 --> 00:37:49.780 I deal with all of them. I deal with men, women, 00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:53.679 kids, children. So I deal with right now, I deal 00:37:53.679 --> 00:37:55.519 with all of them. But it is a big difference 00:37:55.519 --> 00:37:59.639 with the females are more needy. The men, like 00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:01.960 I said, dealing with the men, even in a jail. 00:38:02.909 --> 00:38:05.030 It seemed like it's starting to change a little 00:38:05.030 --> 00:38:06.809 bit. The men are starting to be more needy and 00:38:06.809 --> 00:38:08.489 the women are starting to be more dependent. 00:38:08.650 --> 00:38:11.789 I'm like, okay, so when did this change? Like, 00:38:11.789 --> 00:38:14.309 at what point did this change? It seemed like 00:38:14.309 --> 00:38:17.449 it. It's like, what point did this change? Like, 00:38:17.510 --> 00:38:19.230 come on, I need this to go back. The men are 00:38:19.230 --> 00:38:21.429 starting to be more needy than the females. Like, 00:38:21.489 --> 00:38:23.949 come on now. But, yeah, it's just like the neediness 00:38:23.949 --> 00:38:26.309 of the females with the, you know, men and the 00:38:26.309 --> 00:38:28.889 kids. They're just going to be kids. You know, 00:38:28.949 --> 00:38:31.920 it's really. That hasn't changed. But between 00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:34.079 the men and the females, it's like the neediness 00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:36.519 of the two. The difference between the two is 00:38:36.519 --> 00:38:38.579 like night and day. Night and day. Night and 00:38:38.579 --> 00:38:40.980 day. Most of the time when I worked at a male 00:38:40.980 --> 00:38:44.099 prison, men try to stay out your way. They try 00:38:44.099 --> 00:38:46.420 to keep you out of their business as much as 00:38:46.420 --> 00:38:48.619 possible. The best way to keep you out of their 00:38:48.619 --> 00:38:50.119 business is them to do what they're supposed 00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:53.139 to do. They're not as open with the stuff that 00:38:53.139 --> 00:38:57.480 they do. They try to get stuff done. If you tell 00:38:57.480 --> 00:38:59.139 them to do something, yes, sir, they'll get right 00:38:59.139 --> 00:39:02.639 on it. Females, no. It's a debate. The argument 00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:07.420 is why I got to do this. Because, one, you have 00:39:07.420 --> 00:39:11.179 to. And it just goes, it just snowballs from 00:39:11.179 --> 00:39:14.039 there. But it's a fight every day just to get 00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:17.099 them to do just the minimal stuff, let alone 00:39:17.099 --> 00:39:22.659 just their regular everyday stuff. The book I 00:39:22.659 --> 00:39:25.599 wrote just over a year ago, i wanted to tell 00:39:25.599 --> 00:39:28.360 not only the story of fire service and the way 00:39:28.360 --> 00:39:31.019 that we see the community you know the way we 00:39:31.019 --> 00:39:34.579 respond to it but also generational trauma that 00:39:34.579 --> 00:39:36.760 there are these dominoes falling you know grandparents 00:39:36.760 --> 00:39:40.860 parents child and you know when you look at a 00:39:40.860 --> 00:39:43.099 lot of people that seem to end up you know in 00:39:43.099 --> 00:39:46.400 addiction in prison etc you see you know it's 00:39:47.929 --> 00:39:50.329 I mean, arguably it's poverty ultimately, isn't 00:39:50.329 --> 00:39:51.909 it really? It just depends on, you know, what 00:39:51.909 --> 00:39:54.050 that looks like in your particular city or county, 00:39:54.110 --> 00:39:57.190 but it's this kind of revolving door, you know, 00:39:57.190 --> 00:39:59.550 and you see these generational inmates that are 00:39:59.550 --> 00:40:02.449 all related to each other. When you look now 00:40:02.449 --> 00:40:04.650 in this kind of long career that you both have, 00:40:04.829 --> 00:40:08.210 what are some of the common denominators that 00:40:08.210 --> 00:40:10.409 you keep seeing over and over again? And how 00:40:10.409 --> 00:40:13.210 do we stop these dominoes from falling and these, 00:40:13.230 --> 00:40:15.010 you know, the next generation ending up behind 00:40:15.010 --> 00:40:21.400 bars like their parents? Well, me personally, 00:40:21.460 --> 00:40:23.480 because, you know, I'm a little bit older than 00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:27.460 she is, just in which a lot of people are not 00:40:27.460 --> 00:40:30.360 going to agree with it is just the dynamics of 00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:34.199 how family deal with discipline in their household. 00:40:36.820 --> 00:40:41.519 You could see the dynamics of a lot of the inmate 00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:45.599 population not really growing up under any structure. 00:40:46.889 --> 00:40:48.889 Like you're supposed to do this. You got to follow 00:40:48.889 --> 00:40:52.889 this. If I say this, you need to do it. And there's 00:40:52.889 --> 00:40:56.710 no negotiation with it. And a lot of people saw 00:40:56.710 --> 00:41:01.130 it as being bad or terrible. I'm never going 00:41:01.130 --> 00:41:03.050 to do that to my child. And the next thing you 00:41:03.050 --> 00:41:05.190 know, your child is talking back to you. The 00:41:05.190 --> 00:41:06.969 child is telling you what you're going to do. 00:41:09.589 --> 00:41:12.570 I'm not talking so much like the beatings and 00:41:12.570 --> 00:41:13.969 all that kind of stuff. Cause some people just 00:41:13.969 --> 00:41:17.989 kind of took that a little too far, but, but 00:41:17.989 --> 00:41:22.230 growing up knowing if they call my dad, it's 00:41:22.230 --> 00:41:24.570 going to be a problem. So I better get myself 00:41:24.570 --> 00:41:26.989 together. Now I'm not going to say I was, wasn't 00:41:26.989 --> 00:41:28.969 always an angel, but there was times when my 00:41:28.969 --> 00:41:31.130 dad stepped in and, you know, I had to rethink 00:41:31.130 --> 00:41:35.449 life quickly and it, it made me go to the point 00:41:35.449 --> 00:41:38.219 of. I'm never going to get in trouble enough 00:41:38.219 --> 00:41:41.039 to where I have to deal with him or even with 00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:43.780 my mom. And my mom was a sweetheart at the house, 00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:48.800 but not wanting to disappoint them. And a lot 00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:53.800 of the dynamics of parents throughout the years 00:41:53.800 --> 00:41:57.739 now, they're too much of trying to be their kids' 00:41:57.940 --> 00:42:01.869 best friend than be their parent. there's times 00:42:01.869 --> 00:42:04.329 that you could you know y 'all you can sit there 00:42:04.329 --> 00:42:05.929 and laugh and be cool with your child and stuff 00:42:05.929 --> 00:42:07.929 like that but sometimes you got to have that 00:42:07.929 --> 00:42:11.070 distinction of there's an authority and you have 00:42:11.070 --> 00:42:13.489 to follow it because if you don't respect the 00:42:13.489 --> 00:42:15.809 authority you're not going to respect nobody 00:42:15.809 --> 00:42:17.489 on the street and then you're going to keep having 00:42:17.489 --> 00:42:20.429 these problems you see the videos every day they 00:42:20.429 --> 00:42:22.409 start going off on the police officer just for 00:42:22.409 --> 00:42:25.550 pulling them over and they're in the wrong where 00:42:25.550 --> 00:42:28.099 do they get that mindset from Well, they all 00:42:28.099 --> 00:42:30.880 want to be internet stars. Yeah. It's clear as 00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:33.500 day. You can see it. It's not even about, you 00:42:33.500 --> 00:42:36.500 know, there's one that was so good. It was an 00:42:36.500 --> 00:42:40.019 English kid. I mean, foul, foul mouth. He must 00:42:40.019 --> 00:42:44.960 have been, God, 11, 12, on a bike, just cursing 00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:47.260 out these people at his grocery store. And his 00:42:47.260 --> 00:42:50.019 dad dragged him back. Oh, yeah. I saw that one. 00:42:50.019 --> 00:42:52.179 That was a good one. That was a good one. That 00:42:52.179 --> 00:42:53.699 was a good one. Yeah. You know, you have this 00:42:53.699 --> 00:42:55.500 virtual world where people think there's nothing 00:42:55.500 --> 00:42:57.539 going to happen. But you lock them back into 00:42:57.539 --> 00:43:00.119 the real world and be a good parent. Yeah. Yeah. 00:43:00.139 --> 00:43:02.219 You can be like, all right, you screwed up. Learn 00:43:02.219 --> 00:43:08.099 from it. Get it together. But now you have so 00:43:08.099 --> 00:43:12.360 many that, okay, if that kid did this, instead 00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:14.969 of holding that kid accountable. They go down 00:43:14.969 --> 00:43:17.590 there. Why you said anything to my child? Who 00:43:17.590 --> 00:43:19.710 are you to say something to my child? So now 00:43:19.710 --> 00:43:21.650 the child think, oh, I can do what I want to 00:43:21.650 --> 00:43:23.210 because mom going to back me up on what I just 00:43:23.210 --> 00:43:25.769 did. And dad's not going to hold me accountable 00:43:25.769 --> 00:43:29.210 for what I just did. So snowball. Because like 00:43:29.210 --> 00:43:35.469 now at the prison I have, we have eight inmates 00:43:35.469 --> 00:43:43.219 that's under the age of 17. And we have 20. five 00:43:43.219 --> 00:43:46.800 that are under the age of 21 that's in they're 00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:49.039 in one particular dormitory but you have people 00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:52.820 that are that young come to prison and then that's 00:43:52.820 --> 00:43:54.780 not even counting the ones that are in juvenile 00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:59.400 djj and stuff like that so and a lot of them 00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:02.480 they just don't have respect for authority at 00:44:02.480 --> 00:44:04.599 all because they wasn't raised to respect the 00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:07.769 authority And I think that's a lot of dynamics 00:44:07.769 --> 00:44:10.789 that we're having now and a lot of the issues 00:44:10.789 --> 00:44:12.610 we're having with people that are coming to prison. 00:44:12.829 --> 00:44:16.550 Because at one point, she was talking about the 00:44:16.550 --> 00:44:18.630 female prison. At one point, they had started 00:44:18.630 --> 00:44:22.230 closing female prisons because they didn't think 00:44:22.230 --> 00:44:25.510 that females should be locked up to the extent 00:44:25.510 --> 00:44:29.409 that they were. Yeah. At one point, we had closed 00:44:29.409 --> 00:44:35.519 like two or three female prisons. When the court 00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:37.139 cases started coming through, they got to the 00:44:37.139 --> 00:44:39.179 point where they was like, oh, we made a mistake. 00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:42.800 They do as many as heinous crimes as men do. 00:44:43.539 --> 00:44:46.659 If not worse. They were having to hustle just 00:44:46.659 --> 00:44:49.039 to build prison, just to have somewhere to put 00:44:49.039 --> 00:44:51.179 them. That's why we have the second female prison 00:44:51.179 --> 00:44:54.840 out there in Lowell. We got two female prisons 00:44:54.840 --> 00:44:58.380 compared to one male prison. How did that add 00:44:58.380 --> 00:45:03.139 up? Yeah, so it's just the whole dynamic of things. 00:45:04.119 --> 00:45:08.039 Regina, what do you want to add anything as far 00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:11.559 as like underlying reasons why you keep finding 00:45:11.559 --> 00:45:14.159 these generations behind bars? I also think it's 00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:18.769 the parenting like you get. A big ratio of especially 00:45:18.769 --> 00:45:21.789 African -American that have no father figure 00:45:21.789 --> 00:45:24.769 in the home. So I feel like that's a that's a 00:45:24.769 --> 00:45:27.889 big that plays a very big role in what we see 00:45:27.889 --> 00:45:31.250 today. So and then not only that, you have moms, 00:45:31.349 --> 00:45:34.320 the mothers are not even being mothers. to their 00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:36.519 kids anymore. And it's like, well, I guess the 00:45:36.519 --> 00:45:39.099 kid is raising herself. Like now you want to 00:45:39.099 --> 00:45:40.639 be their friend or their sister. Now that you 00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:44.079 have a child that's raising their selves because 00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:46.539 they can't depend on mom or they have no father 00:45:46.539 --> 00:45:49.739 and never, never knew their father. So to me, 00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:52.300 I feel like the biggest, you know, biggest in 00:45:52.300 --> 00:45:55.239 that it's just a parenting system. It's like, 00:45:55.340 --> 00:45:59.329 it has to, something has to change. And poverty 00:45:59.329 --> 00:46:02.630 is a big issue also. But to me, it's just the 00:46:02.630 --> 00:46:05.510 parenting, not having that father figure. Most 00:46:05.510 --> 00:46:07.570 of the time now, it's the mother figure. You 00:46:07.570 --> 00:46:11.489 know, years and years ago, it was the women always 00:46:11.489 --> 00:46:14.289 complained, well, I can't depend on the man. 00:46:14.550 --> 00:46:16.809 And it's like now, since I can't depend on the 00:46:16.809 --> 00:46:19.570 man, I got a child. The child can't even depend 00:46:19.570 --> 00:46:22.329 on the mom now because they still trying to find 00:46:22.329 --> 00:46:25.170 their way. So it was like most of the time you 00:46:25.170 --> 00:46:28.679 got babies having babies. Well, this is when 00:46:28.679 --> 00:46:31.880 you hear some people, you know, usually people 00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:34.179 that have got a comfortable income that are sitting 00:46:34.179 --> 00:46:37.079 in a nice home. The problem is, you know, it's 00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:40.239 the homes, you know, they're broken homes. But 00:46:40.239 --> 00:46:44.239 if you look at the generational trauma of broken 00:46:44.239 --> 00:46:47.119 homes, they create more broken home. Not always, 00:46:47.239 --> 00:46:50.380 but, you know, if dad is in prison or mom is 00:46:50.380 --> 00:46:52.860 an addict or, you know, we're just up sticks 00:46:52.860 --> 00:46:56.039 and left. I mean, you know, my ex, my son's mother. 00:46:57.500 --> 00:47:01.360 her sperm donor um basically left it when she 00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:03.199 was five years old and went to start another 00:47:03.199 --> 00:47:06.380 family across the country like imagine what that 00:47:06.380 --> 00:47:08.820 does to a child you know what i mean so i think 00:47:08.820 --> 00:47:10.619 this is the thing it's all well and good for 00:47:10.619 --> 00:47:12.800 people to say oh it's just the the families it's 00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:14.760 like but you know we got to figure out what's 00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:17.099 breaking these families in the first place prison 00:47:17.099 --> 00:47:19.460 addiction you know i mean all you know murder 00:47:19.460 --> 00:47:21.679 i mean all these things that are destroying even 00:47:21.679 --> 00:47:25.400 on the roads i mean 40 000 americans die in accidents 00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:28.340 every year That's taking a mom or a dad, you 00:47:28.340 --> 00:47:31.079 know? So I think we need to, you know, we need 00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:33.460 to look at that because otherwise we will just 00:47:33.460 --> 00:47:36.400 keep, you know. I think one of the biggest things 00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:39.199 in the black community was government assistance. 00:47:40.260 --> 00:47:45.360 You have, when that started up, when, okay, we 00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:47.099 assist you with this because you have a child 00:47:47.099 --> 00:47:49.760 just that and the other, but stipulation is the 00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:53.880 dad couldn't be there. So when you start separating 00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:57.519 that household, And then you start giving women 00:47:57.519 --> 00:47:59.780 certain money, and they don't really have to 00:47:59.780 --> 00:48:01.579 go to work for it. They got accustomed to it. 00:48:01.579 --> 00:48:03.739 They got accustomed to it. Now they start passing 00:48:03.739 --> 00:48:06.940 it down to their kids, especially their female, 00:48:07.139 --> 00:48:11.280 their daughters. Hey, you don't need him. Get 00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:15.460 that baby. Get that check. Kick him on down the 00:48:15.460 --> 00:48:17.940 road. Say whatever you need to about him because 00:48:17.940 --> 00:48:20.840 this, that, and the other, but. Whether you was 00:48:20.840 --> 00:48:23.019 in a relationship with him or whatever the case 00:48:23.019 --> 00:48:24.679 may be, go ahead and get that check. So it just 00:48:24.679 --> 00:48:28.179 kept domino affecting, domino affecting the community 00:48:28.179 --> 00:48:31.960 to the point of you have so many females on government 00:48:31.960 --> 00:48:35.480 assistance that aren't in relationship or a meaningful 00:48:35.480 --> 00:48:39.519 relationship like that. But before that whole 00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:44.440 system came about, the marriage ratio was higher, 00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:48.150 much higher. Then when they start looking for 00:48:48.150 --> 00:48:50.969 assistance, just help to keep going, to get a 00:48:50.969 --> 00:48:53.710 little hand up. Okay, well, you know, we'll help 00:48:53.710 --> 00:48:56.190 you, but he can't be in the picture. No matter 00:48:56.190 --> 00:48:58.289 what the instance is, he can't be in the picture. 00:48:58.989 --> 00:49:01.550 Or, you know, they get those subsidized houses 00:49:01.550 --> 00:49:05.070 and stuff like that. And when they come and do 00:49:05.070 --> 00:49:08.230 inspection, man, if he's involved, he got to 00:49:08.230 --> 00:49:10.670 go hide somewhere just so she can keep getting 00:49:10.670 --> 00:49:14.070 her money. You know what I mean? So I think. 00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:17.659 Just looking at it, a lot of that stuff is really 00:49:17.659 --> 00:49:20.360 what caused a lot of issues. Like, okay, what 00:49:20.360 --> 00:49:22.079 I need a man for, the government going to give 00:49:22.079 --> 00:49:24.719 me the money. You know what I mean? I might get 00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:27.420 a little money for child support or whatever 00:49:27.420 --> 00:49:30.659 the case may be, but I take that money and don't 00:49:30.659 --> 00:49:33.920 have to go to work nowhere. So I think that caused 00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:36.179 a lot of issues in the black family too because 00:49:36.179 --> 00:49:40.460 there's nobody looking for a nuclear family. 00:49:40.539 --> 00:49:43.119 They're just looking for a paycheck as quick 00:49:43.119 --> 00:49:46.650 as possible. And we saw that a lot in the fire 00:49:46.650 --> 00:49:49.429 service. I mean, literally escalates on the front 00:49:49.429 --> 00:49:53.409 driveway and no food in the fridge. You got a 00:49:53.409 --> 00:49:55.449 BMW sitting out into the house that's falling 00:49:55.449 --> 00:49:59.449 apart. Yeah. You know what I mean? I never understood 00:49:59.449 --> 00:50:02.230 that. That always blew my mind. and the thing 00:50:02.230 --> 00:50:04.489 is that i mean the benefits this is sadly what 00:50:04.489 --> 00:50:06.309 isn't discussed i mean they do get a lot of people 00:50:06.309 --> 00:50:08.889 back on their feet oh yeah you know my you know 00:50:08.889 --> 00:50:11.090 becky she was on food stamps when she was young 00:50:11.090 --> 00:50:13.110 and now she's a doctor yeah you know what i mean 00:50:13.110 --> 00:50:16.150 so you know that it does help but but you got 00:50:16.150 --> 00:50:18.389 to be the type you got to be the type of person 00:50:18.389 --> 00:50:21.429 of using it as a way of help not using it as 00:50:21.429 --> 00:50:23.889 a way of life absolutely you know what i mean 00:50:23.889 --> 00:50:27.429 because you know you have like a lot of men that 00:50:28.329 --> 00:50:30.690 They don't have anything but just a little bit 00:50:30.690 --> 00:50:32.289 of help, probably going to help them get in that 00:50:32.289 --> 00:50:33.969 direction. But they're not allowed to get that 00:50:33.969 --> 00:50:37.369 kind of stuff. But you have a lot of women that 00:50:37.369 --> 00:50:39.210 are like, okay, why am I going to do anything 00:50:39.210 --> 00:50:42.329 better if I got it easy? Now, you do have those 00:50:42.329 --> 00:50:45.269 that get on it for a minute, like you said. They 00:50:45.269 --> 00:50:47.369 get off of it because they want something better. 00:50:47.389 --> 00:50:50.329 They want something more than what that crazy 00:50:50.329 --> 00:50:53.460 life is. Because I think Regina even did it for 00:50:53.460 --> 00:50:56.659 equipment and she was like, oh. Subsidized housing, 00:50:56.900 --> 00:50:59.380 food stamps, I did it. And I was like, I can't 00:50:59.380 --> 00:51:02.139 do this no more. I cannot let the government 00:51:02.139 --> 00:51:04.300 rule any part of my life. And I was like, I got 00:51:04.300 --> 00:51:06.380 to have better. I got to have more. And I was 00:51:06.380 --> 00:51:09.320 like, no, I can't. I cannot continue to live 00:51:09.320 --> 00:51:12.219 my life like this. But I think it's also like 00:51:12.219 --> 00:51:14.280 who you've got in your life. Like one of my friends 00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:17.440 who's a retired gang unit guy, he's like one 00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:19.420 of the gang members. He was the kind of person 00:51:19.420 --> 00:51:21.309 that would be. friendly in the neighborhood you 00:51:21.309 --> 00:51:24.489 know they trusted him um and he said yeah i've 00:51:24.489 --> 00:51:27.269 got you know several women pregnant so you know 00:51:27.269 --> 00:51:29.030 if one gets tired of me then i just go the other 00:51:29.030 --> 00:51:31.130 one's house yes he's playing the game from the 00:51:31.130 --> 00:51:35.190 other side but you know i think when you hear 00:51:35.190 --> 00:51:37.329 the success stories and i had so many in police 00:51:37.329 --> 00:51:40.670 fire you know military that were it's very similar 00:51:40.670 --> 00:51:43.030 um childhood to the people that are behind bars 00:51:43.030 --> 00:51:46.420 it was always a positive mentor but the problem 00:51:46.420 --> 00:51:48.519 is you know you grow up in an area that's infested 00:51:48.519 --> 00:51:51.039 with gangs or like where is that person your 00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:52.719 mentor is someone that's telling you to sling 00:51:52.719 --> 00:51:56.360 the open you know by a nine so what do you see 00:51:56.360 --> 00:51:59.320 as far as uh because when i worked in california 00:51:59.320 --> 00:52:01.840 the gangs were prevalent i know we had gang killings 00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:04.960 all the time but here you don't see it as much 00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:08.519 locally what about behind bars i mean we You 00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:10.280 know, most of us are naive and we've only got 00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:13.079 movies and television to go by. But do you see 00:52:13.079 --> 00:52:15.679 that in the Florida prisons as much? Florida 00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:20.820 prisons have it. It's not as prevalent as you 00:52:20.820 --> 00:52:24.420 have in California and Texas and New York and 00:52:24.420 --> 00:52:28.019 stuff like that. But they do have it. But a lot 00:52:28.019 --> 00:52:34.940 of the gangs come from your area. where you're 00:52:34.940 --> 00:52:37.699 from. It's not so much crip blood, just that 00:52:37.699 --> 00:52:40.159 and the other. Where you from in Fort Lauderdale? 00:52:40.239 --> 00:52:42.880 Where you from in Miami? I'm from Duval. You 00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:45.059 know, those different type of cliques that you 00:52:45.059 --> 00:52:48.980 have inside, that's in the male compound. Females... 00:52:48.980 --> 00:52:51.699 It's more survival with the males. It's more 00:52:51.699 --> 00:52:55.239 survival. Yeah. Females, they don't have... They 00:52:55.239 --> 00:52:57.119 don't even associate with all that stuff. It's 00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:00.099 just their family groups. Whoever they connect 00:53:00.099 --> 00:53:02.460 with the most, that's who they hang out with. 00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:05.739 But other than that, they could probably have 00:53:05.739 --> 00:53:09.039 been hung with bloods at one point inside the 00:53:09.039 --> 00:53:13.139 prison. They don't even think about it, consider 00:53:13.139 --> 00:53:15.880 it. It's just who they could click with the best, 00:53:16.039 --> 00:53:18.940 whoever they get along with the best. Males, 00:53:18.940 --> 00:53:23.340 they're more area. whatever you're from and stuff 00:53:23.340 --> 00:53:24.880 like that. Now, they might have it more in the 00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:26.619 feds. I can't say for the feds because I never 00:53:26.619 --> 00:53:31.380 worked in the feds, but with the male population, 00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:35.599 that's more what their biggest issue is. And 00:53:35.599 --> 00:53:38.300 then you find it more with the black inmates 00:53:38.300 --> 00:53:41.519 than with whites or Hispanics and stuff like 00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:43.780 that. You have some separation in the Hispanic 00:53:43.780 --> 00:53:49.440 area, but for the most part, For the white inmate, 00:53:49.619 --> 00:53:53.760 if you're white, you're with us. It's CWB. Yeah. 00:53:54.840 --> 00:53:59.440 CWB. So, and then the blacks, they have like 00:53:59.440 --> 00:54:01.420 the dynamic of where I'm from, this, that, and 00:54:01.420 --> 00:54:03.360 the other, and they're more separated as far 00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:05.880 as gang -wise goes. But you have that a little 00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:09.300 bit more, yes. On the racism, excuse me, that's 00:54:09.300 --> 00:54:13.039 a hard word, the recidivism conversation, I hear, 00:54:13.039 --> 00:54:16.219 you know, from people within, you know, the law 00:54:16.219 --> 00:54:18.739 enforcement and the prison side, the availability 00:54:18.739 --> 00:54:21.960 still of of drugs you know the the violence in 00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:26.800 there what is creating that behind bars that 00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:29.539 maybe isn't happening in some of the the more 00:54:29.539 --> 00:54:31.599 progressive systems or the ones that maybe have 00:54:31.599 --> 00:54:37.539 the right manpower well in my aspect is the drug 00:54:37.539 --> 00:54:40.980 the drug situation has gotten a lot worse um 00:54:41.630 --> 00:54:44.010 throughout the state it's not just in one prison 00:54:44.010 --> 00:54:47.070 every state every prison has an issue with drugs 00:54:47.070 --> 00:54:50.030 and the battle to keep it off the compound is 00:54:50.030 --> 00:54:54.829 ridiculous um like i say it's a lot worse than 00:54:54.829 --> 00:55:01.489 what it used to be um and it's it's causing it's 00:55:01.489 --> 00:55:05.369 causing a ripple ripple effect of bad stuff happening 00:55:05.369 --> 00:55:07.750 on the compound because you constantly they constantly 00:55:07.750 --> 00:55:11.440 dealing drugs either they getting high Or they're 00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:13.840 almost dying from drugs because we have to knock 00:55:13.840 --> 00:55:20.099 in them weekly now to the point. And just trying 00:55:20.099 --> 00:55:21.820 to figure out how it's getting on the compound. 00:55:21.980 --> 00:55:24.820 That's the biggest issue that I've been dealing 00:55:24.820 --> 00:55:27.260 with as far as dealing in the profession, just 00:55:27.260 --> 00:55:30.400 trying to figure out where is it coming from? 00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:32.800 Because they even get to the point where they 00:55:32.800 --> 00:55:35.719 get wall spray sprayed on a piece of paper and 00:55:35.719 --> 00:55:38.769 smoke it and get out from it. That's why we can't 00:55:38.769 --> 00:55:40.269 even have wall spray on the compound anymore 00:55:40.269 --> 00:55:42.869 because they was using that as a form of getting 00:55:42.869 --> 00:55:48.250 high off of. So the increasing of the drugs on 00:55:48.250 --> 00:55:50.210 the compound is what really causing us the biggest 00:55:50.210 --> 00:55:53.210 issues now because you never know what you're 00:55:53.210 --> 00:55:57.210 going to get because they get that strength that 00:55:57.210 --> 00:55:59.869 come from being high and then you have to deal 00:55:59.869 --> 00:56:01.630 with that on top of being inside the prison. 00:56:02.949 --> 00:56:06.159 What about your perspective, Regina? Well, pretty 00:56:06.159 --> 00:56:09.320 much the same thing, you know, wondering how 00:56:09.320 --> 00:56:12.260 they get it. But most of ours, how they get is 00:56:12.260 --> 00:56:14.760 from because we do send out workers. They go 00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:17.400 to the farm and majority of the time they get 00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:19.739 to drop from the farms and stuff like that. So 00:56:19.739 --> 00:56:25.079 and it comes inside. But, you know, it's. It's 00:56:25.079 --> 00:56:27.880 not as bad as the prison. I'm sure it is in some 00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:29.900 aspect. Like we do catch the ones when they come 00:56:29.900 --> 00:56:32.800 in inside the jail, they'll drop or they can 00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:35.039 swallow it. And they, you know, they get it out 00:56:35.039 --> 00:56:37.820 of their system inside the jail. And so it's 00:56:37.820 --> 00:56:39.900 like, you know, that part of we are dealing with, 00:56:39.980 --> 00:56:41.900 you know, dealing with the ones that are swallowing 00:56:41.900 --> 00:56:45.039 it, bringing it inside. And, you know, the inmates 00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:46.800 from the farm, they'll bring it from the farm 00:56:46.800 --> 00:56:48.239 and bring it in the jail. Even though they get 00:56:48.239 --> 00:56:51.239 searched, body scanned and everything, somehow 00:56:51.239 --> 00:56:55.159 they're still getting it in. And the worst part 00:56:55.159 --> 00:56:57.159 about it is their families that are helping them. 00:56:57.260 --> 00:57:00.699 Oh, yeah. And that's the thing that boggles my 00:57:00.699 --> 00:57:04.059 mind. I'm like, you complain. I'm pretty sure 00:57:04.059 --> 00:57:06.880 you complain about them being in there. And whatever 00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:09.019 happens to them, you complain about it. But you 00:57:09.019 --> 00:57:12.139 want to help them do stuff that you know that's 00:57:12.139 --> 00:57:16.059 illegal to the point of helping them try to sneak 00:57:16.059 --> 00:57:19.889 in. Cell phones, drugs, the amount of cell phones. 00:57:19.949 --> 00:57:22.070 They have brand new cell phones before most people 00:57:22.070 --> 00:57:23.909 on the street could get a brand new cell phone, 00:57:24.110 --> 00:57:27.889 which is crazy. And with them using drones and 00:57:27.889 --> 00:57:30.230 everything to drop packages on the compound, 00:57:30.610 --> 00:57:34.190 drones have made it really bad for us now because 00:57:34.190 --> 00:57:36.309 you have to deal with drone flyovers all the 00:57:36.309 --> 00:57:38.710 time now. They're trying to drop packages on 00:57:38.710 --> 00:57:41.829 the compound with piles of contraband in them, 00:57:41.929 --> 00:57:45.690 from cell phones to... drugs to alcohol whatever 00:57:45.690 --> 00:57:50.269 they could get in there i had a um former british 00:57:50.269 --> 00:57:52.170 special forces guy on the show and now that's 00:57:52.170 --> 00:57:54.250 his world is drones and he was talking about 00:57:54.250 --> 00:57:57.090 the ability to jam so they don't have that over 00:57:57.090 --> 00:57:59.409 the prisons a lot of prisons are starting to 00:57:59.409 --> 00:58:02.630 get it because it's because it's coming so prevalent 00:58:02.630 --> 00:58:05.449 but we don't have them over all of them and they're 00:58:05.449 --> 00:58:08.789 slowly getting out there but it's it it's ridiculous 00:58:08.789 --> 00:58:11.269 the stuff that they have to go through and then 00:58:11.269 --> 00:58:12.809 the amount of stuff that we have to deal with 00:58:12.809 --> 00:58:15.420 when it's been When it's been seen or found that 00:58:15.420 --> 00:58:18.079 we have to deal with the amount of searches and 00:58:18.079 --> 00:58:21.360 stuff that we have to do. I want to do one more 00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:24.539 prisoner focus and then we'll go to the guards 00:58:24.539 --> 00:58:28.920 well -being. I've heard from a few people addiction 00:58:28.920 --> 00:58:31.599 programs being cut. I think in Florida specifically, 00:58:31.739 --> 00:58:34.219 if I'm not mistaken. Talk to me about that because 00:58:34.219 --> 00:58:37.239 one answer obviously to not using drugs is to... 00:58:37.550 --> 00:58:40.150 be sober in the first place so it seems again 00:58:40.150 --> 00:58:42.750 if we're talking about recidivism reducing access 00:58:42.750 --> 00:58:45.989 to mental health tools or addiction tools well 00:58:45.989 --> 00:58:48.769 they do still have addiction programs that are 00:58:48.769 --> 00:58:52.510 in there um they do have a particular program 00:58:52.510 --> 00:58:55.469 that they have that focuses on that the way they 00:58:55.469 --> 00:58:57.969 help try to help them out but the sad thing is 00:58:57.969 --> 00:59:00.110 there are the worst ones in the prison the ones 00:59:00.110 --> 00:59:03.030 that are actually in the program we have to deal 00:59:03.030 --> 00:59:04.869 with them more than anybody else on the compound 00:59:04.869 --> 00:59:10.900 when it comes to drugs The thing is with them, 00:59:10.920 --> 00:59:13.380 if they're into drugs, there is nothing you can 00:59:13.380 --> 00:59:16.739 change their mind about. You try. You talk to 00:59:16.739 --> 00:59:19.360 them. I talk to plenty of them. I'm not understanding 00:59:19.360 --> 00:59:20.800 why you keep putting this stuff in your body. 00:59:20.860 --> 00:59:22.280 Sooner or later, we're not going to be able to 00:59:22.280 --> 00:59:26.679 bring you back. I have them point blank to my 00:59:26.679 --> 00:59:29.480 face. I like it, so I'm going to do it. If I 00:59:29.480 --> 00:59:32.059 get my hands on it, I'm going to do it. And it 00:59:32.059 --> 00:59:35.300 is crazy. You could try, unless they really want 00:59:35.300 --> 00:59:37.679 to make a change themselves, there's no amount 00:59:37.679 --> 00:59:40.039 of class you're going to give them that's going 00:59:40.039 --> 00:59:43.440 to get them out of it. Which is crazy. Yes. And 00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:46.800 which is hard to believe, but you could try to 00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:48.460 help them. But if they don't want to help themselves, 00:59:49.059 --> 00:59:52.019 there's nothing you can do about it. It seems 00:59:52.019 --> 00:59:54.760 like if there was a lot more purpose during the 00:59:54.760 --> 00:59:56.900 day, so like the Norwegian model, and they had 00:59:56.900 --> 00:59:59.070 school and they had work and they were... cooking 00:59:59.070 --> 01:00:01.170 and cleaning and hanging out with the lads or 01:00:01.170 --> 01:00:05.329 the girls yeah the that loneliness that emptiness 01:00:05.329 --> 01:00:08.969 would be less maybe you you would have people 01:00:08.969 --> 01:00:11.349 less drawn to that it's just the biggest thing 01:00:11.349 --> 01:00:14.949 is just giving getting them to want to be a part 01:00:14.949 --> 01:00:18.289 of something because yes you still have education 01:00:18.289 --> 01:00:21.949 we still have some things we do have give them 01:00:21.949 --> 01:00:23.849 like rec so they can go out and hang out with 01:00:23.849 --> 01:00:25.769 one another and get a little bit of exercise 01:00:25.769 --> 01:00:29.289 in But then you have those that just don't want 01:00:29.289 --> 01:00:32.690 to do it. They feel like if you make them do 01:00:32.690 --> 01:00:34.409 something is against their will. And why should 01:00:34.409 --> 01:00:37.369 I do it? Not realizing it's a benefit to you 01:00:37.369 --> 01:00:39.590 to give you something to give you a program in 01:00:39.590 --> 01:00:42.590 your head. So you have something to fall back 01:00:42.590 --> 01:00:45.130 on when you get out of here. So you think about, 01:00:45.289 --> 01:00:47.630 OK, I got to get up in the morning, make my bed 01:00:47.630 --> 01:00:50.469 and start my day. Not just lay in the bed all 01:00:50.469 --> 01:00:52.949 day long. You got to get up and get started on 01:00:52.949 --> 01:00:55.369 something throughout the day. And they feel like 01:00:55.369 --> 01:01:01.019 it's just. We're just harping on them, but we're 01:01:01.019 --> 01:01:02.820 trying to give them a structure in their mind 01:01:02.820 --> 01:01:06.380 of something to do. Wake up, make your bed, start 01:01:06.380 --> 01:01:09.039 your day. Don't stay in bed all day. You have 01:01:09.039 --> 01:01:11.500 to make your bed every single day. So if you 01:01:11.500 --> 01:01:13.320 get that instilled in your head when you get 01:01:13.320 --> 01:01:15.820 home, you won't be that person that just lay 01:01:15.820 --> 01:01:18.019 up in bed all day and don't go do nothing. You 01:01:18.019 --> 01:01:20.019 know you got to get up, make your bed, and start 01:01:20.019 --> 01:01:23.900 your day. Go find something to do. Find a job 01:01:23.900 --> 01:01:26.429 or something to do, not just... lay around the 01:01:26.429 --> 01:01:31.650 house all day. Absolutely. Well, Regina, one 01:01:31.650 --> 01:01:34.349 of the kind of observations that I had a long 01:01:34.349 --> 01:01:37.050 time ago now, not from experience, of course, 01:01:37.170 --> 01:01:41.050 was we think about the incarcerated people being 01:01:41.050 --> 01:01:45.090 in prison, but you guys are in prison. So talk 01:01:45.090 --> 01:01:46.929 to me about the impact of that, because I would 01:01:46.929 --> 01:01:49.190 imagine, excuse again if I'm naive, there's a 01:01:49.190 --> 01:01:52.679 big old storm out the back. You know, but if 01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:54.840 they are not seeing daylight very much, then 01:01:54.840 --> 01:01:57.019 I'm sure a lot of the CEOs aren't seeing daylight 01:01:57.019 --> 01:01:58.920 very much. And you've got these long shifts. 01:01:58.920 --> 01:02:00.780 And like you said, the ratio, I'm sure, adds 01:02:00.780 --> 01:02:05.559 stress. So, you know, talk to me about the environment 01:02:05.559 --> 01:02:08.920 that you guys work in and the impact on your 01:02:08.920 --> 01:02:12.780 physical and mental health. It can affect us 01:02:12.780 --> 01:02:17.880 very, very much. Like a lot of people that I 01:02:17.880 --> 01:02:19.800 work with, I try to tell them, find something 01:02:19.800 --> 01:02:23.039 to do. get out. My, what we normally do is work 01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:25.440 out. I love working out. It keeps the mind right. 01:02:25.559 --> 01:02:29.760 And it has kept me for, it kept us for a very 01:02:29.760 --> 01:02:33.900 long time from having to take mental psych meds. 01:02:33.900 --> 01:02:38.980 You know, it's a, it's very, it's very high in 01:02:38.980 --> 01:02:41.099 corrections where you have people that have taken 01:02:41.099 --> 01:02:44.940 psych medication in our field. And a lot of people 01:02:44.940 --> 01:02:46.780 ask me, well, what do you do to, you know, when 01:02:46.780 --> 01:02:49.880 you want to have fun, I work out. I love working 01:02:49.880 --> 01:02:52.519 out. It keeps me mentally, it keeps me focused. 01:02:52.639 --> 01:02:54.900 Me and my husband, it's like, that's something 01:02:54.900 --> 01:02:58.579 we love doing. We don't have to drink alcohol. 01:02:58.760 --> 01:03:01.840 We don't smoke. We don't drink alcohol. So our, 01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:04.780 the way we have fun, you know, what we love doing 01:03:04.780 --> 01:03:07.980 is just, we focus on working out, getting stronger. 01:03:08.280 --> 01:03:11.659 So we can come home every day, you know, working 01:03:11.659 --> 01:03:13.739 in the field that we work in, corrections. We 01:03:13.739 --> 01:03:16.400 deal with criminals on a daily basis. You know, 01:03:16.440 --> 01:03:18.820 a lot of people, you know, it's not, an easy 01:03:18.820 --> 01:03:22.059 job. It's a mental strain on us and physical. 01:03:22.440 --> 01:03:28.239 So we focus on just working out. The same thing 01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:32.920 because in corrections, the statistic is five 01:03:32.920 --> 01:03:35.760 years after you retire, you're gone. Same as 01:03:35.760 --> 01:03:39.659 first responders. And so, you know, and I can 01:03:39.659 --> 01:03:42.500 see it because a lot of time you have so much 01:03:42.500 --> 01:03:45.510 idle time that you're just sitting. You do paperwork 01:03:45.510 --> 01:03:47.610 and you're just sitting in a chair most of the 01:03:47.610 --> 01:03:50.090 time. And then you have those that, you know, 01:03:50.130 --> 01:03:51.550 a lot of people when you get bored, they eat. 01:03:52.210 --> 01:03:55.190 They snack on this. I have the problem not being 01:03:55.190 --> 01:03:57.409 a supervisor because I sit at a desk a lot. I 01:03:57.409 --> 01:03:59.389 have to push my bag away because a lot of times 01:03:59.389 --> 01:04:01.329 I'm doing, I'm just like, okay, what do I got 01:04:01.329 --> 01:04:05.050 in my bag? Okay, I'm much on that for a few minutes. 01:04:05.110 --> 01:04:07.130 Next thing you know, you don't put on another 01:04:07.130 --> 01:04:09.130 50 pounds because you're just sitting there eating 01:04:09.130 --> 01:04:11.170 all day and sitting behind a desk the entire 01:04:11.170 --> 01:04:17.539 time. So going, To the gym, a lot of times, help 01:04:17.539 --> 01:04:20.360 me get a lot of those stressors out and make 01:04:20.360 --> 01:04:24.900 sure I keep my body at least moving and up so 01:04:24.900 --> 01:04:28.219 that hopefully when I leave, I'm not going five 01:04:28.219 --> 01:04:32.539 years after that. And I tell a lot of my staff 01:04:32.539 --> 01:04:37.039 that daily. They have to deal with me daily. 01:04:37.320 --> 01:04:39.480 And I have a lot of them that come and talk to 01:04:39.480 --> 01:04:42.119 me. And I was like, and a lot of them, I don't 01:04:42.119 --> 01:04:44.659 have time. I say, you make time for what you 01:04:44.659 --> 01:04:47.739 want to make time for. Because if you could sit 01:04:47.739 --> 01:04:51.019 down and watch a one hour movie on TV, those 01:04:51.019 --> 01:04:53.480 are two minutes in between each one of those 01:04:53.480 --> 01:04:55.699 commercials that you would get up and do something. 01:04:56.349 --> 01:04:58.670 I like, so that's an excuse that you make to 01:04:58.670 --> 01:05:01.949 tell yourself that doesn't work on me. Just like, 01:05:01.969 --> 01:05:04.269 just let you, I just let them know that it's 01:05:04.269 --> 01:05:07.090 because you need to do something. Even when I'm 01:05:07.090 --> 01:05:08.750 teaching the academies, I tell them, I'm like, 01:05:08.829 --> 01:05:12.090 you have a lot of idle time. You got to find 01:05:12.090 --> 01:05:15.349 something outside of work to help you keep going. 01:05:16.150 --> 01:05:18.929 Not just that paycheck. You got to have something 01:05:18.929 --> 01:05:21.369 outside of work to keep you going because most 01:05:21.369 --> 01:05:23.489 people have kids and stuff like that. Can't keep 01:05:23.489 --> 01:05:25.190 up with kids when you can't freaking breathe. 01:05:25.869 --> 01:05:30.110 You know what I mean? So, yeah, that's been like 01:05:30.110 --> 01:05:32.050 the biggest thing for me because I had issues 01:05:32.050 --> 01:05:35.150 in the beginning of my career where I put on 01:05:35.150 --> 01:05:38.650 like 60 pounds. I went from like 185 to almost 01:05:38.650 --> 01:05:42.949 240, 250 pounds at one point. And I went to bend 01:05:42.949 --> 01:05:45.349 over to tie my shoes and couldn't breathe. I 01:05:45.349 --> 01:05:51.929 almost choked myself out. So I figured I need 01:05:51.929 --> 01:05:54.349 to get back in, get back to doing something. 01:05:56.149 --> 01:05:58.449 And getting back to working out. And that's when, 01:05:58.449 --> 01:06:00.650 you know, she and I started working out a little 01:06:00.650 --> 01:06:02.670 bit more together because at one point I was 01:06:02.670 --> 01:06:04.929 leaving her home when I went to the gym. But 01:06:04.929 --> 01:06:06.269 I couldn't work out because she had called me 01:06:06.269 --> 01:06:09.170 the whole time while I'm out. So I couldn't get 01:06:09.170 --> 01:06:11.789 no sentences to the point where I might as well 01:06:11.789 --> 01:06:14.289 just bring her with me and get it done that way. 01:06:15.409 --> 01:06:19.610 How did you guys meet? At the prison. It was 01:06:19.610 --> 01:06:26.420 so sad. Uh, yeah, we met each other at the prison. 01:06:26.599 --> 01:06:29.599 Um, I seen her walking down the center walk and 01:06:29.599 --> 01:06:31.559 she was with another way. Then, you know, we 01:06:31.559 --> 01:06:33.880 spoke and stuff like that. And, and I always 01:06:33.880 --> 01:06:36.119 kind of joked around a lot of times at that time 01:06:36.119 --> 01:06:39.099 too. And we just started talking back and forth 01:06:39.099 --> 01:06:44.559 from there. Yeah. Very cool. Talk to me about 01:06:44.559 --> 01:06:47.219 iron Legion then. Cause that's where, you know, 01:06:47.219 --> 01:06:50.300 we all met, but you were like more OG than I 01:06:50.300 --> 01:06:53.510 was. So, cause that was. when CrossFit was relatively 01:06:53.510 --> 01:06:55.829 unknown too. So what were you doing prior to 01:06:55.829 --> 01:06:57.469 that and kind of walk me through your journey 01:06:57.469 --> 01:07:01.429 with the gym? Well, we started out as Hammer's 01:07:01.429 --> 01:07:05.570 House of Fitness, it was. James Hammer Tree. 01:07:05.590 --> 01:07:10.329 Yeah, Hammer Tree. He had a gym. And we saw at 01:07:10.329 --> 01:07:13.750 one time, drove past it, went in, and we kind 01:07:13.750 --> 01:07:15.269 of looked around and they tried to get us to 01:07:15.269 --> 01:07:18.809 get started. And we didn't do it. And exactly 01:07:18.809 --> 01:07:21.679 a year later. Went back by the, I said, we say 01:07:21.679 --> 01:07:23.059 we're going to try it out. So let's go try it 01:07:23.059 --> 01:07:27.099 out. So when we went there, they didn't call 01:07:27.099 --> 01:07:29.719 themselves CrossFit because they wasn't affiliated. 01:07:30.039 --> 01:07:34.659 So he called it HammerFit. And we started working 01:07:34.659 --> 01:07:38.469 out there. The first couple of weeks, we were 01:07:38.469 --> 01:07:42.449 like, what are we doing? What is wrong with us? 01:07:43.670 --> 01:07:46.449 And some workouts, you know, doing the rest, 01:07:46.590 --> 01:07:48.230 we'd be sitting there, and I'd be looking at 01:07:48.230 --> 01:07:49.849 her, and I'd be like, if she get up and leave, 01:07:49.909 --> 01:07:52.030 I'm going with her because this is killing me 01:07:52.030 --> 01:07:55.570 right now. But we didn't realize how much stronger 01:07:55.570 --> 01:07:59.130 that made us, and we kept coming back. It just 01:07:59.130 --> 01:08:04.449 nonstop. It just got addicting. And then Hammers, 01:08:04.449 --> 01:08:08.099 he was. Closing down because he was moving somewhere 01:08:08.099 --> 01:08:12.199 else, and he got with Ted to kind of take over. 01:08:12.539 --> 01:08:15.219 And at one point, Ted was going to keep the gym, 01:08:15.380 --> 01:08:17.180 and then I think he kind of figured out that 01:08:17.180 --> 01:08:19.460 was going to be just too much to deal with. So 01:08:19.460 --> 01:08:21.699 he ended up closing down and just brought all 01:08:21.699 --> 01:08:24.260 of us with him. And that was when they was at 01:08:24.260 --> 01:08:27.819 the old warehouse area that they was at. So we 01:08:27.819 --> 01:08:29.720 started going there, and we've been there ever 01:08:29.720 --> 01:08:33.279 since. our biggest thing is we was trying to 01:08:33.279 --> 01:08:35.180 get in shape before we got married we were trying 01:08:35.180 --> 01:08:37.640 to get ourselves we had already did stuff we 01:08:37.640 --> 01:08:41.420 had did the p90x's the insanities and all that 01:08:41.420 --> 01:08:43.939 kind of stuff we did those over and over again 01:08:43.939 --> 01:08:46.359 and my wife is one of those type of people she 01:08:46.359 --> 01:08:50.560 she gets bored very easily so after a while of 01:08:50.560 --> 01:08:52.279 learning the tapes and knew what was going to 01:08:52.279 --> 01:08:54.619 happen on the tape she had kind of got away from 01:08:54.619 --> 01:08:57.399 not really want to do it anymore so when we started 01:08:57.399 --> 01:09:01.270 doing crossfit it helped us out because it was 01:09:01.270 --> 01:09:03.649 something different every day. So she couldn't 01:09:03.649 --> 01:09:05.710 get comfortable, we couldn't get comfortable, 01:09:05.850 --> 01:09:08.609 and it was something that gave us a goal every 01:09:08.609 --> 01:09:11.229 single day. And it went from our goal of trying 01:09:11.229 --> 01:09:16.630 to lose weight to being able to back squat a 01:09:16.630 --> 01:09:18.590 certain amount, to being able to deadlift a certain 01:09:18.590 --> 01:09:20.470 amount, being able to clean a certain amount. 01:09:20.630 --> 01:09:23.970 It got away from that aesthetic stuff to the 01:09:23.970 --> 01:09:26.550 ability stuff. And I think that's the biggest 01:09:26.550 --> 01:09:31.489 thing that kept us in it at that time. Yes. Please. 01:09:31.789 --> 01:09:35.649 Being able to protect myself and my partner when 01:09:35.649 --> 01:09:38.130 we're at work. That was my main goal. I was like, 01:09:38.149 --> 01:09:40.750 we work out. That's the reason why I love working 01:09:40.750 --> 01:09:42.789 out is like being able to have that strength 01:09:42.789 --> 01:09:44.989 to be able to help a male partner or a female 01:09:44.989 --> 01:09:47.409 partner, you know, in a situation with dealing 01:09:47.409 --> 01:09:49.829 with inmates. You know, we deal with all kinds. 01:09:50.189 --> 01:09:51.949 And there's plenty of times where I've been in 01:09:51.949 --> 01:09:54.789 a use of force and I've helped more male inmates 01:09:54.789 --> 01:09:57.390 with. you know, male partners with male inmates 01:09:57.390 --> 01:09:59.890 than I have with female. And a lot of people 01:09:59.890 --> 01:10:02.810 are like, you know, Regina, you're very strong. 01:10:02.890 --> 01:10:05.550 Yes, that's the reason why I go to work out. 01:10:05.670 --> 01:10:08.050 You know, just to be able to, hey, you going 01:10:08.050 --> 01:10:10.670 home, we both going home. You know, just to have 01:10:10.670 --> 01:10:14.149 the strength that sometimes my male partners 01:10:14.149 --> 01:10:17.529 may not have. To be a female and to be able to 01:10:17.529 --> 01:10:20.609 save a male partner, you know, in a use of force 01:10:20.609 --> 01:10:27.090 is... I look at it as an A+. Good job. Just to 01:10:27.090 --> 01:10:30.689 be able to save a partner. I think CrossFit, 01:10:30.770 --> 01:10:32.909 if we're going to thank them for one thing, it's 01:10:32.909 --> 01:10:36.699 redefining. What an Air Force woman can do. Because 01:10:36.699 --> 01:10:38.840 as you know, there are several women in our gym 01:10:38.840 --> 01:10:43.079 that can whoop our asses. Regina can out squat 01:10:43.079 --> 01:10:46.140 me and all that stuff. But it's true, like every 01:10:46.140 --> 01:10:47.859 different area that they're, you know. And that 01:10:47.859 --> 01:10:49.640 was the thing that got me. It was like when we 01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:52.279 first started working out there and I'm trying 01:10:52.279 --> 01:10:54.500 to move this weight and I can't move it. And 01:10:54.500 --> 01:10:58.220 I know I'm stronger than this. And I got Renee 01:10:58.220 --> 01:11:00.300 and Lindy over there on the other side. Well, 01:11:00.420 --> 01:11:03.069 Lindy at the time. Linda, she's lifting more 01:11:03.069 --> 01:11:05.449 weights than me. She's what, like 110 pounds? 01:11:06.069 --> 01:11:08.310 She's overhead squatting more than I was and 01:11:08.310 --> 01:11:10.750 they were pissing me off. I'm like, what is going 01:11:10.750 --> 01:11:14.130 on? And so it made me define what I needed to 01:11:14.130 --> 01:11:19.430 do and to work on myself. Absolutely. Well, shifting 01:11:19.430 --> 01:11:25.149 to where we are today, the fire service has an 01:11:25.149 --> 01:11:29.220 immense recruitment problem at the moment. fixable 01:11:29.220 --> 01:11:31.199 like we know what is wrong it's just the problem 01:11:31.199 --> 01:11:33.920 is just convincing the people who you know the 01:11:33.920 --> 01:11:36.840 bean counters that rather than spending all the 01:11:36.840 --> 01:11:39.300 money downstream if you put the money up front 01:11:39.300 --> 01:11:41.140 oh yeah you won't waste all that money in the 01:11:41.140 --> 01:11:43.659 first place yes what are you seeing as far as 01:11:43.659 --> 01:11:46.220 um recruitment and retention in corrections in 01:11:46.220 --> 01:11:50.140 general i want to talk about jerry first you 01:11:50.140 --> 01:11:55.140 go well in my area that's been like a major push 01:11:55.140 --> 01:11:59.090 in the last At least two to three years. With 01:11:59.090 --> 01:12:01.489 the new secretary that we have that's over the 01:12:01.489 --> 01:12:03.869 department creation, he has really been pushing 01:12:03.869 --> 01:12:06.909 up, getting more raises for the department because 01:12:06.909 --> 01:12:09.529 for almost 12 years, we never received a raise. 01:12:09.770 --> 01:12:12.510 For 12 years? Yes, for 12 years, we never received 01:12:12.510 --> 01:12:17.050 a raise. So you can't keep staff that way. People 01:12:17.050 --> 01:12:19.109 are not going to stay, especially when you have 01:12:19.109 --> 01:12:21.770 the county that has a raise just about every 01:12:21.770 --> 01:12:23.470 other year or whatever. You're not going to keep 01:12:23.470 --> 01:12:27.210 staff that way. So he is really pushed to try 01:12:27.210 --> 01:12:29.949 to get us more raises. In the last three years, 01:12:29.989 --> 01:12:31.850 we've received more raises than the last three 01:12:31.850 --> 01:12:33.710 years, and like I said, in the last 12 years. 01:12:34.189 --> 01:12:36.850 And then the latest one that he's pushed for 01:12:36.850 --> 01:12:42.210 has put us where we should be. It could be better, 01:12:42.270 --> 01:12:45.369 but it's where we should have been years ago. 01:12:45.510 --> 01:12:48.130 If you're going to compete against Marion County, 01:12:48.489 --> 01:12:51.779 Alachua County. they counted all these different 01:12:51.779 --> 01:12:55.680 counties that's paying substantially more me 01:12:55.680 --> 01:12:59.699 as a captain um she's making the same amount 01:12:59.699 --> 01:13:04.460 as a sergeant so that's like how you gonna make 01:13:04.460 --> 01:13:07.359 make the distinction between the two if you could 01:13:07.359 --> 01:13:09.220 go to the county and make the same amount of 01:13:09.220 --> 01:13:12.420 same amount of money at a lower a little bit 01:13:12.420 --> 01:13:14.859 royal or right just because of your years you 01:13:14.859 --> 01:13:18.460 can make that kind of money so with the raids 01:13:18.460 --> 01:13:21.079 that they're implementing this year, should fix 01:13:21.079 --> 01:13:24.079 a lot of that. And that's been his biggest thing, 01:13:24.119 --> 01:13:28.760 to hold retention. And it has helped a lot. The 01:13:28.760 --> 01:13:33.340 amount of officers that we've been getting in 01:13:33.340 --> 01:13:36.439 lately has been crazy. We still lose a lot because 01:13:36.439 --> 01:13:39.180 corrections is not for everybody. Not everybody 01:13:39.180 --> 01:13:43.420 can do that job. But we've kept a lot more staff. 01:13:45.659 --> 01:13:51.380 We've gotten our percentage down to like, I think 01:13:51.380 --> 01:13:54.619 like 3 % at one point. I was just 3%. Yeah, 3%. 01:13:54.619 --> 01:14:01.039 Vacancy rate. So, which is amazing. We came from 01:14:01.039 --> 01:14:04.460 like 20%. Now we do still have some institutions 01:14:04.460 --> 01:14:08.859 that are still dealing with high unemployment, 01:14:09.239 --> 01:14:13.289 but. We're thinking with this next raise and 01:14:13.289 --> 01:14:17.569 actually having a governor on board with giving 01:14:17.569 --> 01:14:20.750 us the money that we need to have so we can keep 01:14:20.750 --> 01:14:25.170 people has been a plus. Ron DeSantis, it looks 01:14:25.170 --> 01:14:30.149 like so much it don't make no sense. So that's 01:14:30.149 --> 01:14:31.850 been the biggest thing. That's been his biggest 01:14:31.850 --> 01:14:35.390 push as far as getting employees and keeping 01:14:35.390 --> 01:14:38.770 employees. And that's one of his main goals for 01:14:38.770 --> 01:14:42.439 a supervisor. It's not just the money that keeps 01:14:42.439 --> 01:14:44.460 the people. It's the people that keeps the people. 01:14:44.899 --> 01:14:48.060 And if you're going to keep people, you have 01:14:48.060 --> 01:14:49.619 to make them feel like they're a part of something. 01:14:50.119 --> 01:14:52.220 And you have to back them up on that and not 01:14:52.220 --> 01:14:54.960 just treat them like, oh, you here. Sit over 01:14:54.960 --> 01:14:56.319 there for a little while. We'll get with you 01:14:56.319 --> 01:14:59.079 in a minute. Treat them like people and talk 01:14:59.079 --> 01:15:01.760 to them like people so people can stay. And that's 01:15:01.760 --> 01:15:04.460 been one of his. If he hears anything about a 01:15:04.460 --> 01:15:07.020 staff member treating a new staff member the 01:15:07.020 --> 01:15:11.939 wrong way, he'll fire him. On the spot. Because 01:15:11.939 --> 01:15:13.539 he don't feel like he needs somebody. And we 01:15:13.539 --> 01:15:16.140 don't need people like that. And we try to teach 01:15:16.140 --> 01:15:18.819 everybody. Treat them like family. I tell myself 01:15:18.819 --> 01:15:21.699 all the time. It's not me that keeps these people 01:15:21.699 --> 01:15:24.079 here. Because they don't work directly with me. 01:15:24.140 --> 01:15:26.619 They work directly with you all. So if y 'all 01:15:26.619 --> 01:15:28.340 not treating them the right way for them to stay. 01:15:28.859 --> 01:15:30.640 Y 'all start worrying about your overtime. Because 01:15:30.640 --> 01:15:33.380 you're going to get overtime eventually. But. 01:15:34.800 --> 01:15:37.680 Everybody wants to go home at some point. And 01:15:37.680 --> 01:15:40.060 we work five days a week. We don't have 12 -hour 01:15:40.060 --> 01:15:42.479 shifts and stuff. We work five days a week. So 01:15:42.479 --> 01:15:44.560 having to work extra hours throughout a five 01:15:44.560 --> 01:15:47.560 -day period can be really hard. So if you have 01:15:47.560 --> 01:15:49.359 the right staffing, you can go home every day 01:15:49.359 --> 01:15:51.960 and still have the pay that you think you should 01:15:51.960 --> 01:15:54.800 have. So that's the biggest thing that we've 01:15:54.800 --> 01:15:58.739 been working on in our area. This is the thing 01:15:58.739 --> 01:16:00.460 as well. When you're understaffed, yeah, the 01:16:00.460 --> 01:16:03.390 overtime might seem attractive. but you got to 01:16:03.390 --> 01:16:05.069 take a step back and say, well, what am I losing? 01:16:05.310 --> 01:16:08.149 You know, and not, you know, a physically not 01:16:08.149 --> 01:16:09.729 being there. And then when you are home, you're 01:16:09.729 --> 01:16:13.510 so tired. Yeah. And then we're back to this conversation 01:16:13.510 --> 01:16:15.609 of not being a present parent and, you know, 01:16:15.630 --> 01:16:17.489 wondering why your kid's struggling. So, and 01:16:17.489 --> 01:16:19.710 one of the why stuff is slipping through at your 01:16:19.710 --> 01:16:22.250 job because you're so tired that, you know, you 01:16:22.250 --> 01:16:24.210 don't work all these hours for this overtime, 01:16:24.369 --> 01:16:27.989 but still you're not present job wise. You got 01:16:27.989 --> 01:16:31.109 the cloud here because you're so tired. So exactly. 01:16:31.569 --> 01:16:36.250 It's not, It doesn't work out very well. The 01:16:36.250 --> 01:16:38.390 money is good, but it doesn't help out in the 01:16:38.390 --> 01:16:40.350 long run. No. And this is what we're seeing in 01:16:40.350 --> 01:16:44.069 the fire service. There's a lot of overtime because 01:16:44.069 --> 01:16:47.710 they're so underserved. I just was told the other 01:16:47.710 --> 01:16:50.329 day that in five years, Marion County Fire has 01:16:50.329 --> 01:16:54.420 lost 500 people. Wow. I think that's pretty much 01:16:54.420 --> 01:16:55.920 the size of the whole department. That's how 01:16:55.920 --> 01:16:58.180 many people are just cycling through. So you 01:16:58.180 --> 01:16:59.979 think the dollar amount, you think of all the 01:16:59.979 --> 01:17:03.159 holes that people are having to fill. But yeah, 01:17:03.220 --> 01:17:05.500 but the ultimate currency is time with your family. 01:17:05.539 --> 01:17:07.119 You know what I mean? And that's what's going 01:17:07.119 --> 01:17:09.720 to keep people with you. If they go and they 01:17:09.720 --> 01:17:12.640 feel well rested and they're all in, you know, 01:17:12.640 --> 01:17:14.159 when they're at work and then they get to go 01:17:14.159 --> 01:17:15.899 home and they're supposed to go home. And like 01:17:15.899 --> 01:17:18.529 you said, they get paid properly. And it's a 01:17:18.529 --> 01:17:20.869 good working environment. That's it. But this 01:17:20.869 --> 01:17:22.729 whole, oh, we'll just pay them more money on 01:17:22.729 --> 01:17:25.369 its own. That's not. You know, or the same as 01:17:25.369 --> 01:17:27.189 lowering fitness standards. Well, lower standards, 01:17:27.229 --> 01:17:29.130 that'll work. Yeah, you'll get 18 in a heartbeat, 01:17:29.210 --> 01:17:30.909 but watch the lawsuits come through when the 01:17:30.909 --> 01:17:33.689 wrong person gets hired. Oh, yes. We're seeing 01:17:33.689 --> 01:17:37.569 that now. We're seeing that now. But I had one 01:17:37.569 --> 01:17:39.689 of my staff members the other day that he does 01:17:39.689 --> 01:17:42.289 a lot of overtime, and then when he see the pay 01:17:42.289 --> 01:17:44.710 raise that's getting ready to come up, he was 01:17:44.710 --> 01:17:46.390 like, okay, I could go ahead and promote now 01:17:46.390 --> 01:17:47.789 because I'm getting paid the amount of money 01:17:47.789 --> 01:17:50.619 that I was doing all my overtime for. Now I'm 01:17:50.619 --> 01:17:52.140 getting paid the amount that I'm getting my overtime 01:17:52.140 --> 01:17:53.920 for. Why do I need to keep doing that overtime? 01:17:54.079 --> 01:17:58.039 I'm getting paid for it. Yeah. So it's helping 01:17:58.039 --> 01:18:01.939 out a lot because we just had interviews for 01:18:01.939 --> 01:18:05.600 a lieutenant last week. And normally for our 01:18:05.600 --> 01:18:07.460 interviews, you have maybe like three or four 01:18:07.460 --> 01:18:10.539 people showed up. This time it was 13. Oh, wow. 01:18:11.160 --> 01:18:13.859 That showed up to go to lieutenant just because 01:18:13.859 --> 01:18:15.500 the amount of money that the lieutenant is going 01:18:15.500 --> 01:18:17.619 to make when that pay raise come into effect. 01:18:18.579 --> 01:18:20.939 A lot of people wasn't promoting up because they're 01:18:20.939 --> 01:18:22.619 like, OK, I can make the money of a lieutenant 01:18:22.619 --> 01:18:24.779 staying as a sergeant just working overtime. 01:18:25.140 --> 01:18:27.579 Yeah. And now they don't have to work overtime. 01:18:27.939 --> 01:18:33.100 That was close. Well, I want to be mindful of 01:18:33.100 --> 01:18:35.880 your time. I want to get you to the gym. So one 01:18:35.880 --> 01:18:37.579 more question for you, for you both, and we'll 01:18:37.579 --> 01:18:40.609 round it off. If you start with you, Regina, 01:18:40.689 --> 01:18:44.510 if you were queen for a day, whether it was the 01:18:44.510 --> 01:18:47.270 employment side and the correctional side, whether 01:18:47.270 --> 01:18:49.569 it was things, incentives to help, you know, 01:18:49.569 --> 01:18:52.090 the incarcerated people, you were queen for a 01:18:52.090 --> 01:18:54.630 day. What changes would you make to make the 01:18:54.630 --> 01:19:01.949 overall system better? That's kind of it's it's 01:19:01.949 --> 01:19:04.869 kind of hard to answer because it's it's a lot 01:19:04.869 --> 01:19:07.329 more than, you know, a day of change is something 01:19:07.329 --> 01:19:11.810 that. That will take years to change. First, 01:19:12.270 --> 01:19:14.409 I would start with just family because family 01:19:14.409 --> 01:19:18.569 makes a difference in all things. Just having 01:19:18.569 --> 01:19:20.890 that relationship with someone who cares for 01:19:20.890 --> 01:19:25.229 you, you care for, it changes a lot. A lot of 01:19:25.229 --> 01:19:28.069 people don't have that. Absolutely. And that 01:19:28.069 --> 01:19:30.350 is a change. I mean, that's a change. If we can 01:19:30.350 --> 01:19:33.949 get the narrative to switch from nasty to... 01:19:34.239 --> 01:19:36.880 community again i think that would be game -changing 01:19:36.880 --> 01:19:39.920 on so many levels so what about you wayne king 01:19:39.920 --> 01:19:42.939 for a day oh my thing would be the the first 01:19:42.939 --> 01:19:46.359 thing would put us back on 12 -hour shifts what 01:19:46.359 --> 01:19:48.020 are you so you're on eight so we're on eight 01:19:48.020 --> 01:19:51.640 we're eight and a half okay um i will put us 01:19:51.640 --> 01:19:54.199 back on 12 -hour shifts because that'll be less 01:19:54.199 --> 01:19:59.020 amount of days going to work and uh less amount 01:19:59.020 --> 01:20:02.260 of hours having to work actually yeah And so 01:20:02.260 --> 01:20:05.960 when we were on 12s, I felt like I had more time. 01:20:06.460 --> 01:20:09.079 I felt like I had more time to spend with family. 01:20:09.199 --> 01:20:11.579 I felt like I had more time to do stuff around 01:20:11.579 --> 01:20:14.880 the house. Now on the five -day, eight -and -a 01:20:14.880 --> 01:20:18.399 -half -hour days, it's like I don't even feel 01:20:18.399 --> 01:20:20.279 like doing anything because I know I got to get 01:20:20.279 --> 01:20:21.619 right back up in the next couple hours and go 01:20:21.619 --> 01:20:24.239 back again. And I don't have that break in between. 01:20:24.760 --> 01:20:28.090 So that would be my first thing. Because I hope 01:20:28.090 --> 01:20:29.449 my secretary don't hear this right now because 01:20:29.449 --> 01:20:31.869 he said he didn't want to hear about it no more. 01:20:32.350 --> 01:20:37.430 But the conversation that 90 % of the staff have 01:20:37.430 --> 01:20:40.949 right now is they wish we'd be back on 12 -hour 01:20:40.949 --> 01:20:44.350 shifts. And you're on nights? I'm on nights. 01:20:44.489 --> 01:20:47.250 Yeah. So I go in at 11 and don't leave until 01:20:47.250 --> 01:20:51.930 like 9 o 'clock in the morning. We felt like 01:20:51.930 --> 01:20:54.449 we had more of a family atmosphere work wise 01:20:54.449 --> 01:20:56.789 because you knew who all was going to be there 01:20:56.789 --> 01:20:59.930 every day. And it wasn't no constant alternate 01:20:59.930 --> 01:21:02.670 because everybody have different days off on 01:21:02.670 --> 01:21:04.649 12 hour shifts. Everybody worked the same shift. 01:21:04.689 --> 01:21:07.029 So everybody, if we wanted to do something together, 01:21:07.050 --> 01:21:09.489 we could all do it at the same time because we 01:21:09.489 --> 01:21:12.739 had the same days off. And that opportunity is 01:21:12.739 --> 01:21:15.279 like hard to do now because everybody have different 01:21:15.279 --> 01:21:17.319 days off and trying to set up doing stuff for 01:21:17.319 --> 01:21:19.399 one another. But like I said, I've just felt 01:21:19.399 --> 01:21:22.720 like I had more time home, just not at work all 01:21:22.720 --> 01:21:24.479 the time. And I had more time to get my work 01:21:24.479 --> 01:21:27.600 done and not have to try to rush to get it done. 01:21:28.020 --> 01:21:29.699 And which I could stay late, but I don't want 01:21:29.699 --> 01:21:32.260 to stay late. No. No, I don't want to stay late 01:21:32.260 --> 01:21:35.850 and I have to. So yeah, I rather, that would 01:21:35.850 --> 01:21:38.270 be my first thing. That might be my first and 01:21:38.270 --> 01:21:41.930 only thing. Well, here's, I mean, there's science 01:21:41.930 --> 01:21:44.210 behind it though. If you, and this is what's 01:21:44.210 --> 01:21:46.689 interesting. If you look at the progressive corporate 01:21:46.689 --> 01:21:49.710 world, so Google and, you know, these big companies 01:21:49.710 --> 01:21:53.930 in Iceland, in the UK and some other places, 01:21:54.029 --> 01:21:57.289 they've tested the four day work week. So four, 01:21:57.350 --> 01:22:00.649 eight hour days. People were just as productive. 01:22:01.340 --> 01:22:03.539 they were innovative because you know obviously 01:22:03.539 --> 01:22:06.180 it's different like being physically in jail 01:22:06.180 --> 01:22:08.539 but if they're a project manager whatever it 01:22:08.539 --> 01:22:11.199 is okay well how can i get this done you know 01:22:11.199 --> 01:22:14.199 quicker quicker um they're uh they're being more 01:22:14.199 --> 01:22:16.979 efficient as well and so it was a huge success 01:22:16.979 --> 01:22:18.579 and now you've got a workforce that goes home 01:22:18.579 --> 01:22:20.380 for a three -day weekend with their family they 01:22:20.380 --> 01:22:22.079 come back they're rested they're ready to go 01:22:22.079 --> 01:22:26.079 yeah so it's a 32 -hour work week to me the people 01:22:26.079 --> 01:22:30.819 who are in these extremely um important positions 01:22:30.819 --> 01:22:34.039 that are really you know protecting lives and 01:22:34.039 --> 01:22:37.239 they're working at night especially i don't understand 01:22:37.239 --> 01:22:39.880 why you know we can't give more rest and recovery 01:22:39.880 --> 01:22:43.140 so you do a 12 or a fire 24 and then you know 01:22:43.140 --> 01:22:44.840 in the fire service and this is happening in 01:22:44.840 --> 01:22:47.319 florida now 24 hour excuse me 72 hour period 01:22:47.850 --> 01:22:49.890 And then again, and people always say, well, 01:22:49.930 --> 01:22:51.329 what about 12? It's like, well, obviously you 01:22:51.329 --> 01:22:54.210 can't do corrections 24 straight, but the answer 01:22:54.210 --> 01:22:56.550 is more rest and recovery in between. Well, if 01:22:56.550 --> 01:22:59.109 you did a 12 -hour shift, then you would, again, 01:22:59.250 --> 01:23:01.369 compact that time and then be able to give people 01:23:01.369 --> 01:23:03.609 more time off. And as you said, that brain fog's 01:23:03.609 --> 01:23:06.569 gone. The likelihood of making a mistake and 01:23:06.569 --> 01:23:08.229 getting hurt or getting someone else hurt goes 01:23:08.229 --> 01:23:12.229 down as well. So it's so crazy that police, fire, 01:23:12.409 --> 01:23:16.710 EMS, corrections. work these long long hours 01:23:16.710 --> 01:23:18.909 especially in the ones that are understaffed 01:23:18.909 --> 01:23:21.109 but yet if we're really talking about looking 01:23:21.109 --> 01:23:23.189 at the best models you know in the business world 01:23:23.189 --> 01:23:25.630 they're realizing that a shorter work week is 01:23:25.630 --> 01:23:28.750 very you know efficient and healthy yeah so to 01:23:28.750 --> 01:23:31.289 me 12s with more rest and recovery between would 01:23:31.289 --> 01:23:33.590 would absolutely be better than much better it 01:23:33.590 --> 01:23:36.409 felt a lot better because like now i get two 01:23:36.409 --> 01:23:38.550 days off for it technically i only get one day 01:23:38.550 --> 01:23:42.949 out between between my two ships. So it's hard 01:23:42.949 --> 01:23:46.069 to even enjoy my time because I'm either having 01:23:46.069 --> 01:23:49.729 to give up sleep just to spend time or sleep 01:23:49.729 --> 01:23:52.689 the whole time and don't spend time at all. Especially 01:23:52.689 --> 01:23:55.170 like spending time with her. Like when I get 01:23:55.170 --> 01:23:59.390 off Saturday morning, if she's off, I either 01:23:59.390 --> 01:24:01.489 have to stay up the rest of the day just so I 01:24:01.489 --> 01:24:03.750 can spend time with her or sleep half the day 01:24:03.750 --> 01:24:06.069 and then spend time with her. And then the next 01:24:06.069 --> 01:24:08.430 day be able to spend some time with her and then 01:24:08.430 --> 01:24:10.750 she's getting ready for her next day. yeah at 01:24:10.750 --> 01:24:15.029 work so it's like that would be my i would think 01:24:15.029 --> 01:24:16.829 that would that would benefit our department 01:24:16.829 --> 01:24:19.109 greatly when it would save the money i mean this 01:24:19.109 --> 01:24:21.350 is this is what's crazy i was literally talking 01:24:21.350 --> 01:24:25.210 to someone today about uh this is my dad about 01:24:25.210 --> 01:24:28.750 science and data i said no one has ever studied 01:24:28.750 --> 01:24:32.869 at least in the fire service our longevity how 01:24:32.869 --> 01:24:37.569 long do we live but police fire ems corrections 01:24:37.569 --> 01:24:41.789 we all have the same exact it's five years so 01:24:41.789 --> 01:24:45.329 studies or not we're all seeing it and so you 01:24:45.329 --> 01:24:46.829 know there's the medical retirements there's 01:24:46.829 --> 01:24:49.149 workman's comp all those would go down if you 01:24:49.149 --> 01:24:51.770 had a healthier happier workforce so the science 01:24:51.770 --> 01:24:53.750 is there if they want to actually save money 01:24:53.750 --> 01:24:56.310 with sick time usage and injuries and all the 01:24:56.310 --> 01:24:58.670 things the work week that we're talking about 01:24:58.670 --> 01:25:01.350 would actually save the money hand over fist 01:25:01.350 --> 01:25:04.779 hand over fist easily so yeah easily yeah Let's 01:25:04.779 --> 01:25:07.460 hope the right people listen to this. Yep. All 01:25:07.460 --> 01:25:09.399 right. Well, I want to thank you so much. It's 01:25:09.399 --> 01:25:12.060 been such an amazing conversation. If people 01:25:12.060 --> 01:25:14.680 did want to reach out, follow on social media, 01:25:14.720 --> 01:25:16.220 I know it's a bit weird because you're in corrections. 01:25:16.340 --> 01:25:18.619 Are there any areas that you want to talk about? 01:25:21.039 --> 01:25:28.140 Me on Instagram would be Blacksmith72, I think. 01:25:29.659 --> 01:25:36.140 Go on yours. no yeah that's it yeah regina anywhere 01:25:36.140 --> 01:25:41.020 or no no all right well i want to thank you both 01:25:41.020 --> 01:25:43.659 so much it's been an amazing conversation really 01:25:43.659 --> 01:25:45.739 powerful insight like we've known each other 01:25:45.739 --> 01:25:48.640 for over a decade this is probably the most we've 01:25:48.640 --> 01:25:51.640 talked actually i want to thank you so much for 01:25:51.640 --> 01:25:53.760 being so generous with your time and coming on 01:25:53.760 --> 01:25:55.579 the behind the shield podcast today thank you