WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.679 Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As 00:00:01.679 --> 00:00:03.439 always, my name is James Geering, and this week 00:00:03.439 --> 00:00:05.480 it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:09.300 veteran firefighter and the union president for 00:00:09.300 --> 00:00:13.800 Gainesville Fire Rescue, David Shuford. Now, 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:16.379 in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics 00:00:16.379 --> 00:00:19.280 from his journey into the volunteer fire service, 00:00:19.480 --> 00:00:22.239 the competitive nature of recruitment when he 00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:24.539 was first trying to get hired on the career side, 00:00:24.760 --> 00:00:28.449 his journey into Gainesville. witnessing the 00:00:28.449 --> 00:00:32.130 recruitment and retention crisis firsthand, their 00:00:32.130 --> 00:00:36.509 mission to pursue the 24 -72 -42 -hour work week, 00:00:36.710 --> 00:00:39.549 the incredible successes they've witnessed over 00:00:39.549 --> 00:00:43.750 the last year, the increase in retention, recruitment, 00:00:44.189 --> 00:00:47.090 the wellness of their people, the relationships 00:00:47.090 --> 00:00:50.350 of the firefighter families, and of course, the 00:00:50.350 --> 00:00:53.409 money saved. Now, before we get to this incredible 00:00:53.409 --> 00:00:56.149 conversation, as I say every week, please just 00:00:56.149 --> 00:00:59.000 take a moment. go to whichever app you listen 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:02.520 to this on subscribe to the show leave feedback 00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:06.760 and leave a rating Every single five -star rating 00:01:06.760 --> 00:01:10.040 truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making 00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:13.859 it easier for others to find. And this is a free 00:01:13.859 --> 00:01:18.900 library of over 1 ,200 episodes now. So all I 00:01:18.900 --> 00:01:22.519 ask in return is that you help share these incredible 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:25.420 men and women's stories so I can get them to 00:01:25.420 --> 00:01:28.500 every single person on planet Earth who needs 00:01:28.500 --> 00:01:56.079 to hear them. Schuford. Enjoy. Well, David, I 00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:58.180 want to start by saying two things. Firstly, 00:01:58.299 --> 00:02:00.439 thank you to our mutual friend, Matt Harrison, 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:03.260 who was also on the podcast when you guys were 00:02:03.260 --> 00:02:06.420 first starting this journey. And secondly, I 00:02:06.420 --> 00:02:09.300 want to thank you for taking the time and coming 00:02:09.300 --> 00:02:12.240 on the Behind the Shield podcast today. Yeah, 00:02:12.259 --> 00:02:14.939 I appreciate it. So where on planet Earth are 00:02:14.939 --> 00:02:18.180 we finding you this morning? So I'm actually 00:02:18.180 --> 00:02:20.639 at our union hall, the Gainesville Professional 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:24.780 Firemen here in Gainesville. That's where you 00:02:24.780 --> 00:02:26.960 got me. You don't have your studio set up yet 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:29.539 for us to be able to come down. Yeah, no, it's 00:02:29.539 --> 00:02:33.240 funny because sadly with the recording, if we 00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:34.960 did it face to face and I have that also, it's 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:36.400 not a studio, but I have my mics and everything. 00:02:36.460 --> 00:02:39.919 But to do the cameras as well, you know, you're 00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:42.780 talking about another entire setup and editing. 00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:45.580 And so even though we're only, what, 40 miles 00:02:45.580 --> 00:02:47.159 from each other at the moment, at least when 00:02:47.159 --> 00:02:48.819 we're doing it this way, we can use the video 00:02:48.819 --> 00:02:51.199 for people to watch and kind of share this message. 00:02:52.900 --> 00:02:55.360 First question, I want to go back to the beginning 00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:57.400 of your journey, but how long have you been the 00:02:57.400 --> 00:03:01.780 president now at Gainesville? So I took over 00:03:01.780 --> 00:03:06.099 the presidency beginning January of 2025. I've 00:03:06.099 --> 00:03:12.000 been on the e -board since right at 2020, right 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:15.699 before COVID. COVID hit is when I first started 00:03:15.699 --> 00:03:18.620 out. I started out as a shift rep, and then I 00:03:18.620 --> 00:03:22.629 served a term as vice president. underneath are 00:03:22.629 --> 00:03:26.069 my predecessor Nick Gonzalez and I took over 00:03:26.069 --> 00:03:29.509 him after his promotion so brilliant well let's 00:03:29.509 --> 00:03:31.729 just do a quick brief kind of journey into the 00:03:31.729 --> 00:03:34.310 fire service so tell me where you were born and 00:03:34.310 --> 00:03:35.909 tell me a little bit about your family dynamic 00:03:35.909 --> 00:03:39.590 what your parents did how many siblings okay 00:03:39.590 --> 00:03:43.449 so I was born out of Jacksonville I was raised 00:03:43.449 --> 00:03:47.310 in a small town just north of me so it's Lottie 00:03:47.310 --> 00:03:51.590 Florida one one red light super small My father 00:03:51.590 --> 00:03:55.330 was a head mechanic for DuPont, which is a big 00:03:55.330 --> 00:03:57.689 chemical company now. It's, you know, Chem Wars 00:03:57.689 --> 00:04:01.550 has kind of bought it out. My mother, she's currently 00:04:01.550 --> 00:04:04.830 serving as a secretary for a sheriff's office 00:04:04.830 --> 00:04:08.810 here in town over in Union County. I have four 00:04:08.810 --> 00:04:12.009 siblings, older sister, older brother, and a 00:04:12.009 --> 00:04:14.689 younger brother. So I'm the only one in the fire 00:04:14.689 --> 00:04:17.540 service. Have you had any conversations with 00:04:17.540 --> 00:04:20.800 your dad as far as the company he works for is 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:27.379 responsible for PFAS? No, because that's not, 00:04:27.540 --> 00:04:31.220 I wouldn't say that that is his expertise. Not 00:04:31.220 --> 00:04:34.079 that he's responsible himself, but yeah, he's, 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:37.319 he's, he's one of them guys that if I brought 00:04:37.319 --> 00:04:39.360 up PFAS, he wouldn't have no idea what we're 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:42.980 talking about. He's born and raised on a farm. 00:04:43.139 --> 00:04:45.899 He's just one of them mechanics. You throw anything 00:04:45.899 --> 00:04:49.079 in front of him, whether he's worked on it before 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:50.879 or not, he's just going to be able to throw it 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:53.480 together. He's not going to be able to tell you 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:56.519 anything. Yeah, that's good, though. That's good. 00:04:56.920 --> 00:04:59.699 You know what? They paid well for the time before 00:04:59.699 --> 00:05:04.230 PFAS came out. We were able to go without. Yeah, 00:05:04.230 --> 00:05:06.389 no, absolutely. But it's interesting now when 00:05:06.389 --> 00:05:08.149 we're having this cancer conversation that, you 00:05:08.149 --> 00:05:10.449 know, we were all just as naive as your dad was. 00:05:10.529 --> 00:05:13.310 And I mean that in a positive way about even 00:05:13.310 --> 00:05:15.970 clean gear is obviously not as safe as we thought 00:05:15.970 --> 00:05:18.350 it was. So yeah, you used to not clean your gear, 00:05:18.410 --> 00:05:20.670 not your helmet. It was more of that badge of 00:05:20.670 --> 00:05:22.949 honor thing. So, you know, we're just as responsible 00:05:22.949 --> 00:05:25.730 for, you know, kind of keep putting our heads 00:05:25.730 --> 00:05:28.490 in the sand, not really understanding it. Absolutely. 00:05:28.509 --> 00:05:30.410 Well, that's the theme of today's topic, isn't 00:05:30.410 --> 00:05:35.829 it? All right. So what about athletics? What 00:05:35.829 --> 00:05:37.709 were you playing and doing as far as sports and 00:05:37.709 --> 00:05:41.569 exercise when you were young? So sports, I played 00:05:41.569 --> 00:05:44.790 baseball, you know, all the way growing up since 00:05:44.790 --> 00:05:47.629 I was young through high school. And then right 00:05:47.629 --> 00:05:49.230 after high school, I got into the fire service. 00:05:49.269 --> 00:05:52.550 I didn't really do anything now. I'm still active 00:05:52.550 --> 00:05:55.509 in sports, not necessarily playing, but coaching 00:05:55.509 --> 00:05:58.829 them. So I end up coaching our local middle school 00:05:58.829 --> 00:06:01.680 team. um which i kind of have the privilege that 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:05.740 my my son is also on so one last one last go 00:06:05.740 --> 00:06:08.759 around for that brilliant and what about career 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:10.360 aspirations you said you went straight into the 00:06:10.360 --> 00:06:12.220 fire service were you always dreaming of that 00:06:12.220 --> 00:06:16.879 or was there something else prior no uh so i 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:19.959 didn't really know exactly what i wanted to do 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:22.779 in high school you know my brother i know i didn't 00:06:22.779 --> 00:06:25.100 want to work for dupont where my dad was you 00:06:25.100 --> 00:06:27.639 know i seen him I was waking him up in the middle 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:29.579 of the night for him to go fix stuff at the plant. 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:32.319 He was always gone. My brother joined the Marines, 00:06:32.579 --> 00:06:35.680 so he was gone. I thought maybe that would be 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:37.519 the avenue I would go is kind of follow him. 00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:41.199 We got a family history of some veterans. And 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:47.120 I really didn't know. And then I was dating a 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:50.279 lady at the time in high school and her grandfather. 00:06:51.069 --> 00:06:53.709 was a fireman he retired here his name is ollie 00:06:53.709 --> 00:06:57.850 wayne powell he retired in 2002 from from gfr 00:06:57.850 --> 00:07:01.230 he just kind of looked at me one day i was 18. 00:07:01.589 --> 00:07:03.810 i was it was my senior year and he was like hey 00:07:03.810 --> 00:07:08.930 man why don't you just go go volunteer so we 00:07:08.930 --> 00:07:11.069 talked a little bit about some calls and i joined 00:07:11.069 --> 00:07:13.990 lottie's little volunteer fire department i think 00:07:13.990 --> 00:07:16.740 there was like 15 people on it or something like 00:07:16.740 --> 00:07:19.339 that. I ended up joining it with my older brother. 00:07:19.420 --> 00:07:23.160 He just got out of the Marines. And the first 00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:27.240 call we got was a fire. And so I was able to 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:30.100 run my first ever structure fire with my brother, 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:33.459 pulling hose, going inside together. And from 00:07:33.459 --> 00:07:35.680 there on out, I was just kind of hooked at that 00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:40.060 point. So Ollie led me that avenue, just didn't 00:07:40.060 --> 00:07:41.939 try to push me, but just told me to go try something 00:07:41.939 --> 00:07:45.889 out. And now I'm 38. I've been doing it ever 00:07:45.889 --> 00:07:50.350 since. So did you go to the Fire Academy first 00:07:50.350 --> 00:07:53.310 or did you do an UNCERT program? No, I went through 00:07:53.310 --> 00:07:57.470 the Fire Academy here in Ocala. Okay. So what 00:07:57.470 --> 00:07:59.889 year did you go through? Let's start with that. 00:07:59.910 --> 00:08:02.529 What year did you go through Fire Academy? 2006. 00:08:03.529 --> 00:08:06.930 Okay. So as you come out, how competitive was 00:08:06.930 --> 00:08:10.069 it to get hired as a firefighter when you graduated? 00:08:11.230 --> 00:08:16.319 Oh, well, I couldn't. I put in my applications 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:20.579 a bunch of places. Gainesville, I don't believe 00:08:20.579 --> 00:08:22.800 so, Marion at the time, but Jacksonville. I put 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:24.500 in for a bunch of places, not a lot of callback, 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:29.079 and I leaned on another mentor of mine. His name's 00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:32.879 Rusty Barrett, also a retired guy here from Gainesville. 00:08:32.940 --> 00:08:34.340 He was one of the instructors at the college 00:08:34.340 --> 00:08:38.240 that I've known my entire life. He actually helped 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:41.700 me out, made a phone call to a chief in a little... 00:08:42.250 --> 00:08:45.230 rural department here called waldo so it was 00:08:45.230 --> 00:08:48.129 uh i was able to join on that get some experience 00:08:48.129 --> 00:08:51.970 i started off part -time worked another job doing 00:08:51.970 --> 00:08:56.690 some welding and fabrication and then uh in 2000 00:08:56.690 --> 00:09:01.590 i worked there from the end of 2006 till 2009 00:09:01.590 --> 00:09:05.389 kind of flopping back and forth and then marion 00:09:05.389 --> 00:09:09.779 county blew up you know they were hiring left 00:09:09.779 --> 00:09:11.700 and right, kind of needing everything, you know, 00:09:11.700 --> 00:09:15.700 it kind of really took off at that point. I don't 00:09:15.700 --> 00:09:17.940 even know how many people I had to go against 00:09:17.940 --> 00:09:20.220 on that, but I ended up working for Marion at 00:09:20.220 --> 00:09:24.899 the same time. GFR is where I wanted to be. And 00:09:24.899 --> 00:09:30.000 when I was applying here, there was man, 500. 00:09:30.789 --> 00:09:33.070 or more applicants at that point. They were putting 00:09:33.070 --> 00:09:34.990 on their own process. They weren't doing the 00:09:34.990 --> 00:09:38.190 NTN or the fire teams. They were putting on their 00:09:38.190 --> 00:09:40.169 own process here, so you were going against all 00:09:40.169 --> 00:09:41.830 these other people. And if you passed the physical, 00:09:41.990 --> 00:09:43.850 you went to the written. Passed the written, 00:09:43.870 --> 00:09:46.549 you go to the BPAD, which was like a psychological 00:09:46.549 --> 00:09:50.190 type thing. And a couple times did not get through. 00:09:50.509 --> 00:09:52.470 Another guy, he's a lieutenant here, I think 00:09:52.470 --> 00:09:56.029 he applied three times and finally broke ground 00:09:56.029 --> 00:10:02.220 on that in 2014. is when we got hired b -pad 00:10:02.220 --> 00:10:05.700 wasn't that that that um video screen and you 00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:07.559 had to go in and you were interacting with the 00:10:07.559 --> 00:10:10.440 scenes they put us yeah they put us in put you 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:14.399 in a closet with a screen and recorded it was 00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:18.080 like a ambulance driver call come out and they'd 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:20.360 reach over and just click turn it off and said 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:22.399 i will finish our lunch like and then they're 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:25.419 like respond what would you do in this it was 00:10:25.419 --> 00:10:29.240 silly yeah it was silly It doesn't really bring 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:31.519 anything. I mean, you're just playing the role 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:36.019 at that point. But yeah. When I tested for Hialeah, 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:40.059 which was 2004, they had a version of that, but 00:10:40.059 --> 00:10:42.700 it was just a cassette recorder. I shit you not. 00:10:42.759 --> 00:10:44.720 So you're sitting at a desk in front of a tape 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:47.159 machine and they're just verbally saying that. 00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:48.360 And then what would you do? And the other one 00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:50.519 was recording. So you didn't even have the visual. 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:52.539 You had to imagine this whole scene that you've 00:10:52.539 --> 00:10:54.720 never been a firefighter before and then try 00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:58.019 and articulate a response. When I got the B -pad, 00:10:58.139 --> 00:10:59.379 the video one, I was like, well, at least this 00:10:59.379 --> 00:11:02.559 is an upgrade from the one I had before. But 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:04.480 yeah, interesting test. I don't know how accurate 00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:07.000 it actually was. I don't either. I'd like to 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:09.919 see some of the old recordings and kind of some 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:12.019 of the guys I work with and see how they still 00:11:12.019 --> 00:11:15.159 respond today. Oh, that'd be freaking, they go 00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:16.820 viral on social media if we could find those 00:11:16.820 --> 00:11:22.259 now. Oh, 100%. All right. So where in Marion 00:11:22.259 --> 00:11:25.700 were you working? Which side of the county? So 00:11:25.700 --> 00:11:29.500 I started in Liberty, which is station 32. So 00:11:29.500 --> 00:11:33.440 that was my first station. It was between 200 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:41.200 and, oh man, it's not 454. It was on 49th, wasn't 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:42.899 it? Because I lived right next to it in Forest 00:11:42.899 --> 00:11:46.139 Glen. Yeah, something like that. So I started 00:11:46.139 --> 00:11:51.379 at 32 and then... as I started kind of progressing, 00:11:51.559 --> 00:11:53.500 I wanted to go to paramedic school. And, you 00:11:53.500 --> 00:11:55.000 know, when you go to paramedic school, you make 00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:57.019 a little bit more money. And when you joined 00:11:57.019 --> 00:11:58.639 the box and Mary, you made even a little bit 00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:00.720 more money. So I decided to go over to station 00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:04.120 21, uh, the friendship station right there over 00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:06.179 by on top of the world. So I, and then I, so 00:12:06.179 --> 00:12:10.179 I was there, I was at that place about four years 00:12:10.179 --> 00:12:13.820 with the same crews, uh, same partner. He still 00:12:13.820 --> 00:12:16.720 works there, uh, James Cabrera or, uh, Stephen 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:20.159 Cabrera. And then I ended up finishing up my 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:23.480 career at 19, which is up in Spar in the north 00:12:23.480 --> 00:12:26.320 before I came to Gainesville. Was 21 the tech 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:29.899 station still when you were there? No. So that's 00:12:29.899 --> 00:12:34.799 why I went to Spar. So it was not the tech station. 00:12:34.899 --> 00:12:37.139 That was the station nobody wanted to go to because 00:12:37.139 --> 00:12:39.740 you just ran all the time. You know, you had 00:12:39.740 --> 00:12:41.580 the snowbirds and stuff like this. So everybody 00:12:41.580 --> 00:12:45.039 was running. No, the tech did not come over until. 00:12:46.110 --> 00:12:49.070 until they ended up bringing ladder 21 over so 00:12:49.070 --> 00:12:53.610 the guys from 20 uh really wanted that new ladder 00:12:53.610 --> 00:12:58.070 so you know people in charge at that point decided 00:12:58.070 --> 00:13:00.370 that they'll talk them into it so that's when 00:13:00.370 --> 00:13:03.850 in 2013 i think is when tech came over there 00:13:03.850 --> 00:13:06.929 what about inter -facility transports were you 00:13:06.929 --> 00:13:08.509 guys doing it at that point because obviously 00:13:08.509 --> 00:13:11.590 you were pretty close to the hospital yep yep 00:13:12.299 --> 00:13:15.000 We were still doing that. West Marion and Timber 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:16.639 Ridge, I think, was the name of the other one. 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:20.620 It was all the time. It didn't bother us. We 00:13:20.620 --> 00:13:25.240 had a good time when I was there. I've never 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:28.539 really had a bad crew. It was all right. well 00:13:28.539 --> 00:13:30.840 i i did my paramedic ride -alongs with marion 00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:33.700 um i volunteered for an absolute heartbeat i 00:13:33.700 --> 00:13:35.460 mean we're talking you know a few months that 00:13:35.460 --> 00:13:37.200 was it because i felt like a ride -along at the 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:39.419 end of the 14 -year career behind me so this 00:13:39.419 --> 00:13:42.700 wasn't the right fit but um there are some phenomenal 00:13:42.700 --> 00:13:45.000 people in marion this is the thing it's like 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:47.240 trying to address the issues that are making 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:50.299 it harder for them and obviously we'll get to 00:13:50.299 --> 00:13:52.740 station 21 again a little bit later in this conversation 00:13:52.740 --> 00:13:56.539 but as a resident the inter -facility transport, 00:13:56.820 --> 00:14:00.080 the 911 emergency rescue that should have been 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:03.759 available for my community where I live, when 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:06.679 that is being pimped out for hospitals to move 00:14:06.679 --> 00:14:09.600 patients around, the residents didn't understand 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:11.740 or didn't realize what was happening. And if 00:14:11.740 --> 00:14:14.519 we had a teenager bleeding to death in a car 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:17.639 wreck or someone choking, that closest rescue 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:21.269 might be on the way to Shands or whatever. for 00:14:21.269 --> 00:14:23.789 a hospital rather than actually serving the people 00:14:23.789 --> 00:14:27.629 that are paying the taxes yeah we we had that 00:14:27.629 --> 00:14:29.669 experience too that i would question it at the 00:14:29.669 --> 00:14:33.710 time because they used to do uh move -ups from 00:14:33.710 --> 00:14:36.590 where we have and here in gainesville i understand 00:14:36.590 --> 00:14:38.450 that you know the county kind of moves up and 00:14:38.450 --> 00:14:41.070 whatnot because we're the city of gainesville 00:14:41.070 --> 00:14:43.710 is the biggest municipality and then but with 00:14:43.710 --> 00:14:48.750 with mary and you have ocala but out at 21 you 00:14:48.750 --> 00:14:51.549 have the whole heartbeat out there of on top 00:14:51.549 --> 00:14:53.370 of the world and stuff like that they would send 00:14:53.370 --> 00:14:58.570 us to west marion on standby because of of transports 00:14:58.570 --> 00:15:01.149 within the city send the other one out to timber 00:15:01.149 --> 00:15:03.269 ridge to move somebody in town so you would have 00:15:03.269 --> 00:15:06.470 gaps like kind of throughout here and there yeah 00:15:06.470 --> 00:15:08.730 and this i mean this is this whole conversation 00:15:08.730 --> 00:15:11.090 the biggest thing to me is the you know the the 00:15:11.090 --> 00:15:12.610 health of the firefighter but then obviously 00:15:12.610 --> 00:15:15.179 the delivery of service and i get to be both 00:15:15.179 --> 00:15:17.919 because you know i live in marion county i live 00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:20.279 in the city of ocala so you know it's the marion 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:22.220 guys that are guys and girls that are transporting 00:15:22.220 --> 00:15:25.360 my loved ones god forbid something happens when 00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:29.139 you talk about 500 plus people testing for gainesville 00:15:29.139 --> 00:15:33.840 that was for how many spots in that class oh 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:38.899 we had my hiring group i think we had 10 10 guys 00:15:38.899 --> 00:15:40.679 in that hiring group something like that There 00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:42.679 we go. So it's a pretty strong ratio. It was 00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:47.700 a vast number. It was a vast number. Now, I don't 00:15:47.700 --> 00:15:50.240 know if that 500 is exactly like when I got hired, 00:15:50.379 --> 00:15:55.500 but it was still super competitive at that point 00:15:55.500 --> 00:15:58.700 that it was tough to get on. So at the front 00:15:58.700 --> 00:16:02.059 door, what were the differences between your 00:16:02.059 --> 00:16:03.860 Marion experience and your Gainesville experience? 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:09.429 Let me just back up real quick on... to say how 00:16:09.429 --> 00:16:13.190 difficult this is so a good buddy of mine colby 00:16:13.190 --> 00:16:18.409 perriman he he applied about three times he's 00:16:18.409 --> 00:16:21.909 a he's a phenomenal lieutenant great great guy 00:16:21.909 --> 00:16:24.929 his father retired here his grant like he was 00:16:24.929 --> 00:16:27.809 a legacy guy and it was still tough for him to 00:16:27.809 --> 00:16:29.669 actually get into the doors i really want to 00:16:29.669 --> 00:16:32.750 hit hit onto that um is that that's happened 00:16:32.750 --> 00:16:35.970 several times of like legacy employees like their 00:16:35.970 --> 00:16:39.730 fathers their brothers like are phenomenal phenomenal 00:16:39.730 --> 00:16:42.330 firemen phenomenal guys like they know the character 00:16:42.330 --> 00:16:44.350 of the kid and it was still tough to even get 00:16:44.350 --> 00:16:49.909 into the door during those times so it's really 00:16:49.909 --> 00:16:52.070 changed kind of over the you know over the years 00:16:52.070 --> 00:16:54.690 since yeah well this is an important perspective 00:16:54.690 --> 00:16:56.769 because we're talking literally only just over 00:16:56.769 --> 00:17:00.549 10 years ago that's it yeah and so in this we'll 00:17:00.549 --> 00:17:02.490 get to that yeah you know it's like when you 00:17:02.490 --> 00:17:05.130 talk about fixing it and the retention and um 00:17:05.130 --> 00:17:08.140 the recruitment People look at you like, what 00:17:08.140 --> 00:17:11.180 you're thinking about is like a unicorn with 00:17:11.180 --> 00:17:12.740 rainbows coming out of his ass. And it's not. 00:17:13.180 --> 00:17:15.579 It's literally the fire service 10, 15 years 00:17:15.579 --> 00:17:17.660 ago. And the biggest question really is like, 00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:20.220 what the hell did you do to the fire service? 00:17:20.940 --> 00:17:22.420 You know what I mean? Where's that question? 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:25.039 It's like after COVID. Well, it was so mismanaged. 00:17:25.059 --> 00:17:28.119 Where's the conversation on what we did poorly, 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:29.960 holding people accountable, and then what we 00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:32.650 can do differently? I make the nation healthier 00:17:32.650 --> 00:17:34.930 so that when the next virus comes, we're more 00:17:34.930 --> 00:17:37.390 prepared. It's the same conversation in the fire 00:17:37.390 --> 00:17:41.049 service. It has been such a nosedive. Even Anaheim, 00:17:41.049 --> 00:17:44.789 I was talking to one of my my my engineer. And 00:17:44.789 --> 00:17:49.690 when I tested in Anaheim in 2005, I was in the 00:17:49.690 --> 00:17:53.390 written. I was in a conference center with a 00:17:53.390 --> 00:17:58.059 thousand certified. firefighters, EMTs, or paramedics, 00:17:58.059 --> 00:18:00.460 most of whom had ambulance operator experience, 00:18:00.779 --> 00:18:03.759 wildland experience, explorers. I mean, they 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:06.299 had a resume as well. There was a thousand of 00:18:06.299 --> 00:18:10.920 us for, my class was 15. So it's so important 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:12.480 for people to understand what it used to look 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.279 like, because then you get to choose that very, 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:18.430 very top tier of that list. And so, you know, 00:18:18.450 --> 00:18:21.490 the physical fitness, you know, the mental resilience, 00:18:21.750 --> 00:18:24.769 the ability to work with people, the dedication 00:18:24.769 --> 00:18:27.970 to the craft itself, they're already woven in 00:18:27.970 --> 00:18:29.910 because it was so competitive that we had to, 00:18:29.930 --> 00:18:33.109 as you said, over and over again, keep adding 00:18:33.109 --> 00:18:35.509 to our resume to be more and more hireable and 00:18:35.509 --> 00:18:38.430 stick out. And then you look at what's happening 00:18:38.430 --> 00:18:40.470 at the moment and we'll get to it. But, you know, 00:18:40.490 --> 00:18:43.210 begging high school children to come do this 00:18:43.210 --> 00:18:45.109 job and we'll train you and, you know, give you 00:18:45.109 --> 00:18:48.230 everything. We couldn't be further than where 00:18:48.230 --> 00:18:50.529 we were 10, 15 years ago. And this needs to be 00:18:50.529 --> 00:18:53.349 contrasted so people understand the level of 00:18:53.349 --> 00:19:00.390 this crisis at the moment. Yeah. Yeah. Man, what 00:19:00.390 --> 00:19:06.069 I know now, even at 18 years old, driving the 00:19:06.069 --> 00:19:11.069 ambulance, 65, 70, through the city, going through 00:19:11.069 --> 00:19:14.380 traffic, you don't realize that. That cat's only 00:19:14.380 --> 00:19:16.660 been driving cars for two years. He doesn't have 00:19:16.660 --> 00:19:19.099 that much experience and the weight of these 00:19:19.099 --> 00:19:22.420 things that are going down the road. I think 00:19:22.420 --> 00:19:23.759 those are the little things that people kind 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:25.420 of forget about. We can teach these guys how 00:19:25.420 --> 00:19:28.339 to pull hose this and that, but the life experiences 00:19:28.339 --> 00:19:31.279 of fire behavior and watching how it's going 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:33.240 to go and what are they actually looking for? 00:19:33.299 --> 00:19:35.720 I think you kind of lose that when you're just 00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:39.779 pulling kids from senior year. You're just trying 00:19:39.779 --> 00:19:42.539 to shove as many people as you can just to try 00:19:42.539 --> 00:19:46.759 to throw a Band -Aid on a bigger issue. Yeah. 00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:50.539 Well, even from a physiology point of view, I 00:19:50.539 --> 00:19:54.539 mean, anyone in the brain world, I'm blanking 00:19:54.539 --> 00:19:56.660 on the right name at the moment, the neuro world 00:19:56.660 --> 00:19:59.420 will tell you that our brain isn't fully developed 00:19:59.420 --> 00:20:02.759 till mid -20s. So I'm not saying you wait all 00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:06.099 the way till 26, 27, which that's kind of how 00:20:06.099 --> 00:20:08.039 old I was by the time I entered the fire service, 00:20:08.099 --> 00:20:11.099 but I didn't. have it right out the gate. But, 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:13.339 you know, look at PD, you can't be a cop until 00:20:13.339 --> 00:20:16.039 you're 21. Now, if you make it super competitive 00:20:16.039 --> 00:20:18.819 and you're building a resume after high school 00:20:18.819 --> 00:20:20.940 so that when you're actually testing at 21, you 00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:23.640 have some life experience, some driving experience, 00:20:23.700 --> 00:20:27.539 as you alluded to, that even from a mental health 00:20:27.539 --> 00:20:30.759 point of view makes you a lot more prepared than 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:34.359 18, no life experience. Your brain is still very 00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:36.579 young and forming. And then boom, now you're 00:20:36.579 --> 00:20:38.440 out seeing the horrible stuff that we respond 00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:41.319 to. So there's that kind of responsibility conversation 00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:47.700 too. Yeah, that's true. I think the mental aspect 00:20:47.700 --> 00:20:51.119 could be one. I will tell you, I talked about 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:54.079 my first fire with my brother when I first started 00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:59.099 out. And that was also my first body I've seen. 00:20:59.579 --> 00:21:01.519 That's the type of experience that I've seen. 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:04.900 um where where gentleman was burned inside of 00:21:04.900 --> 00:21:08.420 it so was i necessarily ready for that at 18 00:21:08.420 --> 00:21:13.500 probably not but uh you know i think over the 00:21:13.500 --> 00:21:15.759 years and the stuff that everybody kind of seems 00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:17.779 they learn how to deal with those issues and 00:21:17.779 --> 00:21:21.420 it's a lot better today with the amount of resources 00:21:21.420 --> 00:21:28.700 that we have to get people help um so yeah absolutely 00:21:28.700 --> 00:21:30.960 well talk to me then about the front door what 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:33.420 was different with gainesville than you'd experience 00:21:33.420 --> 00:21:43.119 with marion the culture is very different so 00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:47.259 the uh the culture here is it's a really good 00:21:47.259 --> 00:21:53.599 culture so they train all the time the camaraderie 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:57.400 inside the house like we had it at 21 right but 00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:02.940 marion is so big You can go from Liberty all 00:22:02.940 --> 00:22:05.039 the way out into the forest and it's an hour 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:07.180 and a half drive, right? You have no idea who 00:22:07.180 --> 00:22:10.720 those guys are. You really, every shift, every 00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:12.420 station was completely different. You didn't 00:22:12.420 --> 00:22:14.119 know them. Whereas here, you know, we have nine 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:17.400 stations. We're only 180 people deep, but you 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:20.440 know everyone. And you can talk to everyone. 00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:23.700 And I think that's probably the biggest difference. 00:22:23.900 --> 00:22:27.240 You still have that small town feel of a fire 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:30.660 department. Whereas over there, you are really 00:22:30.660 --> 00:22:37.619 separated, I feel. So when you first walk through 00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:40.039 the door, and then as we talked about, there's 00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:42.599 this national recruitment issue. That's what 00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:45.059 I was saying. So my Anaheim engineer was saying 00:22:45.059 --> 00:22:48.039 that even their recruitment is a fraction of 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:51.240 what it was. And Anaheim was the kind of place 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:53.460 where, I'll give you a perfect example. When 00:22:53.460 --> 00:22:55.460 I was moving back to Florida because I had my 00:22:55.460 --> 00:22:57.740 son and my son's mother wanted to go back to 00:22:57.740 --> 00:23:00.900 her family, this is why I left California, family 00:23:00.900 --> 00:23:04.819 first. Not being arrogant, I was like, well, 00:23:04.859 --> 00:23:07.640 let me just go do a practice CPAT, make sure 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:09.519 that I'll smash it when I go test with Orange 00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:12.900 County. So I did the CPAT and the guy in the 00:23:12.900 --> 00:23:15.539 CPAT testing place in California in the conversation 00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:17.440 when you're on the stair mill at the beginning. 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:20.119 I was telling him I was an Anaheim firefighter 00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:21.779 and he's like, dude, you are the first person 00:23:21.779 --> 00:23:24.619 I've ever heard that's left Anaheim fire department. 00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:26.859 You know, that's, that's what the culture was 00:23:26.859 --> 00:23:29.259 like back then. And it was only because I was 00:23:29.259 --> 00:23:31.400 moving, you know, 3000 miles back to the other 00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:34.400 side of the country again, but you know, no one, 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:36.720 no one ever left. And it was so, so competitive 00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:38.440 with, like I said, thousands of people testing. 00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:41.559 And even them as this, you know, this kind of 00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:44.380 gem in Southern California, that's kind of revered 00:23:44.380 --> 00:23:48.710 as one of the pinnacles. they're struggling with 00:23:48.710 --> 00:23:50.869 recruitment. So this is a national conversation. 00:23:51.269 --> 00:23:54.690 So what have you seen from when you first got 00:23:54.690 --> 00:23:58.569 to GFR to where you were a couple of years ago 00:23:58.569 --> 00:24:01.390 now as far as recruitment and retention through 00:24:01.390 --> 00:24:06.890 your department's lens? Okay, so I don't know 00:24:06.890 --> 00:24:09.589 exactly what year it shifted when it happened 00:24:09.589 --> 00:24:12.009 here. So Gainesville, everybody viewed Gainesville 00:24:12.009 --> 00:24:13.710 as a career department. Nobody left once you 00:24:13.710 --> 00:24:16.049 got here. And I want to say a couple of years 00:24:16.049 --> 00:24:19.259 after that, after I got hired, we started kind 00:24:19.259 --> 00:24:20.759 of seeing a fall off. And I don't know if it 00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:23.119 was more of a generational thing at that point, 00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:28.740 but we were behind in pay. We did have 24 48s 00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:31.019 with a six, six week K day, which was, which 00:24:31.019 --> 00:24:33.519 was nice. That was better than I had anywhere 00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:36.880 else. It was just straight 24 48s. Right. And, 00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:39.640 and then everybody else started kind of catching 00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:44.839 up. And when you attach Kelly days, to other 00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:47.500 places that are making more money and we're behind, 00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:51.180 people start leaving. That class I had, we had 00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:54.579 10. We only have four people left. So over 50 00:24:54.579 --> 00:24:59.759 % left us. Now, all those guys are great. We 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:01.920 got a great group of guys. Everybody I got hired 00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:05.059 with is lieutenant and above. We got two lieutenants, 00:25:05.059 --> 00:25:08.140 a captain, and a district chief. So we had a 00:25:08.140 --> 00:25:09.940 great, great group, and those other guys are 00:25:09.940 --> 00:25:13.349 somewhere else as lieutenants. drivers and you 00:25:13.349 --> 00:25:14.970 know they're successful there it would be nice 00:25:14.970 --> 00:25:20.150 to keep them here but it's probably easier to 00:25:20.150 --> 00:25:26.430 me to say is that since 2472s um we've lost three 00:25:26.430 --> 00:25:30.630 people one for disciplinary issues one to retirement 00:25:30.630 --> 00:25:34.930 and the other guy moved to north uh north georgia 00:25:34.930 --> 00:25:37.829 for his family so they weren't leaving for other 00:25:37.829 --> 00:25:40.740 departments you know that I think that should 00:25:40.740 --> 00:25:43.240 probably speak volumes on where we are today 00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:46.059 as where we were before when you're losing more 00:25:46.059 --> 00:25:48.500 than 50 % of your recruiting classes to somewhere 00:25:48.500 --> 00:25:53.660 else. Absolutely. What about, you know, illnesses, 00:25:53.740 --> 00:25:56.819 deaths, et cetera? I mean, as I sit here in Marion 00:25:56.819 --> 00:25:59.180 County in five years, there were five suicides. 00:25:59.180 --> 00:26:01.619 There were several more that were kind of swept 00:26:01.619 --> 00:26:03.400 under the carpet, attempts that, you know, thank 00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:05.940 goodness the people survived, but, you know, 00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:08.490 wasn't mentioned, wasn't acknowledged. not to 00:26:08.490 --> 00:26:11.650 mention cancers and medical retirements and all 00:26:11.650 --> 00:26:14.430 these other things too, which is one of the big 00:26:14.430 --> 00:26:15.990 things that I'm so passionate about. It's so 00:26:15.990 --> 00:26:18.250 funny that I'm disliked in this area because 00:26:18.250 --> 00:26:20.869 I'm trying to advocate to stop those things from 00:26:20.869 --> 00:26:24.349 happening anymore. I kind of hate it for an interesting 00:26:24.349 --> 00:26:27.509 reason, but regardless, what were you seeing 00:26:27.509 --> 00:26:31.009 in Gainesville as far as the impact of these 00:26:31.009 --> 00:26:33.309 shifts on your men and women's physical and mental 00:26:33.309 --> 00:26:38.380 health? Well, I do want to acknowledge some of 00:26:38.380 --> 00:26:40.480 them guys, like with Marion. I've worked with 00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:43.240 a couple of them guys. And, you know, one I knew 00:26:43.240 --> 00:26:45.460 really, really well. I worked with him at 21, 00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:48.779 and then he went to 22. And, you know, I hate 00:26:48.779 --> 00:26:50.960 what he went through. I don't want to mention 00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:54.000 his name on here, but, like, his son and my son 00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:56.839 share the same name. And we talked about them 00:26:56.839 --> 00:27:00.059 quite a bit. And he was a fantastic dude, man. 00:27:01.849 --> 00:27:04.410 to see him go through that. And that's one of 00:27:04.410 --> 00:27:06.069 the ones I didn't expect to kind of go through 00:27:06.069 --> 00:27:11.250 that. But the shift here, you know, we've been 00:27:11.250 --> 00:27:14.349 fortunate that we haven't had those types of 00:27:14.349 --> 00:27:18.849 attempts yet. So we've had some people lose their 00:27:18.849 --> 00:27:21.849 battles to cancer. We just had a guy that we 00:27:21.849 --> 00:27:24.250 celebrated last year. His name was Tom Hand. 00:27:25.630 --> 00:27:29.250 He had to medically retire because of the cancer, 00:27:29.390 --> 00:27:33.269 but another great, great guy. So we've lost him. 00:27:33.289 --> 00:27:35.190 We've had a couple here and there that have had 00:27:35.190 --> 00:27:38.809 some scares. Luckily, with the cancer bill, they 00:27:38.809 --> 00:27:43.210 were able to get help. The mental portion of 00:27:43.210 --> 00:27:47.140 it. You know, we've had some people. We work 00:27:47.140 --> 00:27:50.539 closely with the IFF Center of Excellence, with 00:27:50.539 --> 00:27:53.539 Hannah here locally. We've had to send some people 00:27:53.539 --> 00:27:56.579 up there over the last couple years. We ended 00:27:56.579 --> 00:28:00.619 up getting a gentleman help last year. But I 00:28:00.619 --> 00:28:05.799 also feel like that's kind of taking a dive, 00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:09.059 too, where it's not happening as much. I had 00:28:09.059 --> 00:28:12.759 a guy the other day, I think one of the biggest. 00:28:13.620 --> 00:28:17.380 contributors to divorce is not necessarily that 00:28:17.380 --> 00:28:19.839 you're a fireman, but a lot of it is the schedule. 00:28:20.339 --> 00:28:23.740 You lose a lot of time through family events, 00:28:23.900 --> 00:28:26.519 Christmases and Thanksgivings and birthdays and 00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:29.640 baseball games and, and all these things that 00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:33.240 I think eventually it just slowly chips away 00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:37.660 at the household. Tuesday, one of the members 00:28:37.660 --> 00:28:39.319 were down here and we were sitting in the office 00:28:39.319 --> 00:28:42.259 and I was telling him about this podcast and 00:28:42.259 --> 00:28:45.839 he, He looked at me and said, you know, since 00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:49.339 2472s, he feels he's got his family back. He's 00:28:49.339 --> 00:28:53.079 able, he's more present. He's not. He's not running 00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:56.440 all these calls and then coming home and it's 00:28:56.440 --> 00:28:59.299 taken over a day for him to really recover. And 00:28:59.299 --> 00:29:01.039 then he's got a partial day and then he's back 00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:03.960 here doing it all over again. Like he has days 00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:06.420 to recover and then some to actually spend with 00:29:06.420 --> 00:29:09.599 his family. He's been here 20 years in the fire 00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:12.500 service. And he was like, I don't even know how, 00:29:12.599 --> 00:29:14.440 like, it's silly to say now because he'd done 00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:16.680 it for 20 years, but he's not sure how he did 00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:21.920 24, 48. had the relationships like he was able 00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:25.259 to maintain then as he does now. He's got a couple 00:29:25.259 --> 00:29:27.140 little girls now and he's, you know, he's got 00:29:27.140 --> 00:29:29.859 a son that's a teenager and he's able to spend 00:29:29.859 --> 00:29:31.920 a lot more time and be a lot more present for 00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:34.839 them. So I think that kind of speaks volume of 00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:39.380 the mental aspect when it comes to being present 00:29:39.380 --> 00:29:43.940 because of 2472s. And that's so important for 00:29:43.940 --> 00:29:45.660 people to hear, because I've said this a lot 00:29:45.660 --> 00:29:47.940 recently. The ultimate currency is time with 00:29:47.940 --> 00:29:49.480 our family, time with our loved ones, whatever 00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:51.559 that looks like. You know, for most of us, it's 00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:53.460 spouses, it's children, but it might be a dog, 00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:55.240 it might be a horse, whatever it is. But it's 00:29:55.240 --> 00:29:58.160 you being present outside the fire service, you 00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:00.339 know, ultimately doing the thing that this is 00:30:00.339 --> 00:30:02.119 all for. You know, you go out there, you leave 00:30:02.119 --> 00:30:04.420 your loved ones, you go serve your community. 00:30:04.900 --> 00:30:06.920 And then the goal is that obviously all of us 00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:08.440 are doing it. So the people that protect our 00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:11.019 families are doing the same thing. And so really, 00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:13.440 it's to, you know, it's for for them, it's for 00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:16.819 our own family, ultimately. And so you look at 00:30:16.819 --> 00:30:19.319 the science, which I've had, you know, so many 00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:21.299 people on here, you know, the science behind 00:30:21.299 --> 00:30:24.400 sleep deprivation, and all things mental ill 00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:26.819 health, addiction, suicide, anxiety, you know, 00:30:26.819 --> 00:30:29.980 everything, you look at the impact of sleep deprivation 00:30:29.980 --> 00:30:32.619 on the prevalence of cancer is irrefutable. Again, 00:30:32.779 --> 00:30:35.180 the science is their testosterone depletion. 00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:38.029 But then you think about I've talked about this 00:30:38.029 --> 00:30:39.470 many, many times. I worked for Orange County 00:30:39.470 --> 00:30:42.569 and got mandatory over and over and over and 00:30:42.569 --> 00:30:45.349 over again. And I was a single dad towards the 00:30:45.349 --> 00:30:48.609 end, which is why I left. But you've already 00:30:48.609 --> 00:30:52.950 worked in 2448. And then you've done your 24. 00:30:53.190 --> 00:30:54.769 You're finally getting ready to go home. You 00:30:54.769 --> 00:30:56.289 promised your kids that you watch their game 00:30:56.289 --> 00:30:58.569 or watch their recital. And then you get that 00:30:58.569 --> 00:31:01.529 phone call. You can't go home. And now you have 00:31:01.529 --> 00:31:05.079 to tell the people that you love. that that promise 00:31:05.079 --> 00:31:07.000 that you made you have to break which you know 00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:10.359 adds guilt and shame but what's disgusting about 00:31:10.359 --> 00:31:14.079 it is the men and women that are being forced 00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:16.299 to work or you know let's be very clear too are 00:31:16.299 --> 00:31:18.240 jumping on the grenade a lot of us sign up so 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:21.880 that you know our probie who just came on who's 00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:24.220 going to get hit yet again and he and his girlfriend 00:31:24.220 --> 00:31:27.339 just had a kid three months ago you're going 00:31:27.339 --> 00:31:29.259 to jump on the grenade so he can go home and 00:31:29.259 --> 00:31:32.440 be a new dad So, you know, cumulatively, but 00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:35.980 these people are paying for the mistakes of leadership, 00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:38.420 whether it's city and county commissioners, whether 00:31:38.420 --> 00:31:41.079 it's chiefs, whether sometimes it's even, you 00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:43.400 know, union presidents that aren't, you know, 00:31:43.420 --> 00:31:46.380 fighting for their people. So this is what really 00:31:46.380 --> 00:31:49.079 disgusts me is we know there's science behind 00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:52.160 the physical and mental ill health or sleep deprivation. 00:31:52.579 --> 00:31:55.099 And our men and women. they're not complaining 00:31:55.099 --> 00:31:58.279 about being a firefighter. It's the work environment 00:31:58.279 --> 00:32:00.740 that's set up for them to fail. And then as we 00:32:00.740 --> 00:32:03.220 get into this, you know, with the nose diving 00:32:03.220 --> 00:32:05.019 of recruitment and retention, there's more and 00:32:05.019 --> 00:32:07.640 more and more vacancies. And therefore the overtime 00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:10.259 is more and more prevalent. So now you're seeing 00:32:10.259 --> 00:32:12.839 your kids less. When you do go home, you're exhausted. 00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:15.740 And of course, I mean, it's just, you know, it's 00:32:15.740 --> 00:32:18.859 basic arithmetic. If you have less and less time 00:32:18.859 --> 00:32:20.539 with your family, you're more and more exhausted 00:32:20.539 --> 00:32:23.039 and stressed. it's going to have an impact on 00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:25.019 the family dynamic, on a marriage or your relationship 00:32:25.019 --> 00:32:28.140 with your kids. You're not able to be present 00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:31.920 in any moment. Your body's just solely focused 00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:34.539 on recovering. And that's what we had here. We 00:32:34.539 --> 00:32:37.240 had to make some changes on how we distribute 00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:41.880 overtime because we were on that. We did a flip 00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:44.700 -flop. We went to 48 -24s for a lot of people. 00:32:44.740 --> 00:32:47.019 And how the overtime used to be, it used to be 00:32:47.019 --> 00:32:49.980 to... lowest man on the totem pole it wasn't 00:32:49.980 --> 00:32:52.680 revolving list it wasn't even like that and we 00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:56.359 had to make a change because we had members that 00:32:56.359 --> 00:32:59.259 uh sometimes we're our own worst enemies you 00:32:59.259 --> 00:33:00.980 know sometimes not everybody always wants to 00:33:00.980 --> 00:33:04.640 step up but we had a newly promoted lieutenant 00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:07.099 and drivers that were getting mandated every 00:33:07.099 --> 00:33:09.579 single shift and these guys got you know two 00:33:09.579 --> 00:33:12.460 three four five kids and they're not able to 00:33:12.460 --> 00:33:15.519 be there be there for him so we we ended up um 00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:18.400 Not Nick, the president before that ended up 00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:21.500 able to, through labor management, talk about 00:33:21.500 --> 00:33:23.880 changing our overtime and how we're going to 00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:25.619 distribute it and kind of making it revolving 00:33:25.619 --> 00:33:28.740 that everybody's going to help everybody. And 00:33:28.740 --> 00:33:31.160 that's kind of gone a long way where it's not 00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:36.140 solely on that person anymore. But there's flaws 00:33:36.140 --> 00:33:38.539 there, too, that we can fix. Yeah, well, and 00:33:38.539 --> 00:33:39.859 we'll get to it as well. You know, you reduce 00:33:39.859 --> 00:33:43.220 the amount of overtime to. a small amount. Now 00:33:43.220 --> 00:33:45.480 everyone's just getting it once in a while. Now 00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:48.200 there's not an issue. When I worked at Anaheim, 00:33:48.200 --> 00:33:50.579 it was the exact same system. You were low man. 00:33:50.859 --> 00:33:54.240 And there was a class, I think they were a year 00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:56.599 behind us or six months behind us. So when we 00:33:56.599 --> 00:33:58.720 hit six months is when we were in the barrel. 00:33:59.259 --> 00:34:02.339 My base pay when I got hired at Anaheim, I think 00:34:02.339 --> 00:34:08.300 was 58 ,000. I didn't sign up. And through mandatory 00:34:08.300 --> 00:34:11.239 overtime, I cleared $100 ,000 that first year. 00:34:11.630 --> 00:34:13.789 I didn't want to be working, but that's how much 00:34:13.789 --> 00:34:15.550 extra work. So it was the same thing. Like you 00:34:15.550 --> 00:34:17.789 said, every single tour we got hit and that was 00:34:17.789 --> 00:34:20.349 a one -on -one off four times with a four or 00:34:20.349 --> 00:34:22.929 six at the end. So when you get hit, a 24 becomes 00:34:22.929 --> 00:34:26.630 a 72. So it was brutal. So, so yeah, when I'm 00:34:26.630 --> 00:34:28.090 talking about all this, you know, this is cause 00:34:28.090 --> 00:34:30.469 I've, I've been there as well. So, you know, 00:34:30.469 --> 00:34:32.989 it really is a thing. And I think this is what 00:34:32.989 --> 00:34:35.110 maddens me. You see some people on social media, 00:34:35.170 --> 00:34:37.130 like everyone's talking about the negative stuff, 00:34:37.250 --> 00:34:39.230 you know, love the job, be into the job. And 00:34:39.230 --> 00:34:41.530 it's like, well, If you want to perform at a 00:34:41.530 --> 00:34:44.650 high level, you need the rest and recovery. If 00:34:44.650 --> 00:34:46.190 you want to perform at a high level, you need 00:34:46.190 --> 00:34:50.610 your family to be intact. So I get that you love 00:34:50.610 --> 00:34:52.769 doing a forcible entry prop in your shorts and 00:34:52.769 --> 00:34:55.190 t -shirt while you film yourself. But if you're 00:34:55.190 --> 00:34:57.309 really into the job, you'll be fighting for the 00:34:57.309 --> 00:34:59.389 environment that allows you to perform at a high 00:34:59.389 --> 00:35:02.610 level as a firefighter. And an understaffed department 00:35:02.610 --> 00:35:07.510 working 24 -48s, ultimately 48 -24s, is not forging 00:35:07.510 --> 00:35:13.280 fire service performance. Yeah. i agree so when 00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:16.360 did the 24 for uh excuse me 24 72 conversation 00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:19.900 even first percolate in gainesville as far as 00:35:19.900 --> 00:35:22.619 a potential solution for this retention and recruitment 00:35:22.619 --> 00:35:30.539 crisis that you were seeing well i think uh at 00:35:30.539 --> 00:35:32.679 first we didn't think we would be able to get 00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:35.519 it you know that that seemed such a far stretch 00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:39.380 you know at the time you know talking to the 00:35:39.380 --> 00:35:41.099 union president and talking to some other people 00:35:41.099 --> 00:35:43.300 like the idea was out there, but you know, it 00:35:43.300 --> 00:35:47.719 was, how can you convince the commission, uh, 00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:51.400 to not deduct your pay, to give you more time 00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:55.079 off, um, more standard time off, not just vacation 00:35:55.079 --> 00:35:57.059 hours and increase sick, you know what I mean? 00:35:57.260 --> 00:36:00.340 But how, how do you convince them that it didn't 00:36:00.340 --> 00:36:04.440 seem like it was feasible? And then, so, uh, 00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:09.349 I believe how, how Nick, Nick did it. And. Our 00:36:09.349 --> 00:36:13.670 current fire chief Hill House, he they started 00:36:13.670 --> 00:36:16.010 working kind of through labor management. And 00:36:16.010 --> 00:36:18.250 I think the seed just got planted at the right 00:36:18.250 --> 00:36:21.530 time, talked about it, talked about its benefits. 00:36:21.869 --> 00:36:27.610 And then they dove into the numbers, really dove 00:36:27.610 --> 00:36:30.010 into the numbers on how we were staffed and how 00:36:30.010 --> 00:36:34.650 we can actually get there. So before. how we 00:36:34.650 --> 00:36:37.730 we used to have a staffing factor of like 1 .3 00:36:37.730 --> 00:36:39.409 or something like that so for every seat that 00:36:39.409 --> 00:36:41.550 you had on the truck it was like 1 .3 so you 00:36:41.550 --> 00:36:43.650 were able to make up you should have an extra 00:36:43.650 --> 00:36:45.969 fireman when a fireman's off so you weren't having 00:36:45.969 --> 00:36:48.570 to do that overtime and how we were able to do 00:36:48.570 --> 00:36:52.610 go about it financially was we shift that 0 .3 00:36:52.610 --> 00:36:56.829 over to that d shift and then that's how you 00:36:56.829 --> 00:36:59.650 reduce the overtime that's how you justify making 00:36:59.650 --> 00:37:03.190 that pay and that I want to say that started 00:37:03.190 --> 00:37:06.449 around 2022 is when the seed actually got planted. 00:37:06.570 --> 00:37:09.869 And then 2023 watered it a little bit more, started 00:37:09.869 --> 00:37:13.130 having conversations with the commissioners on 00:37:13.130 --> 00:37:15.090 the benefits of it. And some of the other places 00:37:15.090 --> 00:37:17.289 here, like we weren't the first one in Florida 00:37:17.289 --> 00:37:20.150 that actually got 2472s. Like there's some other 00:37:20.150 --> 00:37:22.590 departments. We were able to kind of show what 00:37:22.590 --> 00:37:25.590 they were doing and how it was working out for 00:37:25.590 --> 00:37:27.809 them and the benefits of it across the country. 00:37:28.570 --> 00:37:37.409 And come. Toward the end of 2023, I believe we 00:37:37.409 --> 00:37:39.809 got it into the D .C. contract, to our district 00:37:39.809 --> 00:37:42.929 chief contract of if this was to be implemented. 00:37:43.449 --> 00:37:46.050 And we put an implementation date in that of 00:37:46.050 --> 00:37:52.190 like October 1st of 2024. This will happen. And 00:37:52.190 --> 00:37:57.780 so when we came up in 2024, our contract. Actually, 00:37:57.860 --> 00:38:00.500 no, we put a reopener in our contract, I believe. 00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:02.980 I wish Nick was here to kind of fact check me 00:38:02.980 --> 00:38:06.099 on this. We put a reopener in our contract since 00:38:06.099 --> 00:38:09.800 the DCs were able to get that, that we got to 00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:12.719 have it. Like now the DCs got it. They can't 00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:15.139 be the only ones on 2472s. We need to make it 00:38:15.139 --> 00:38:17.980 wide. So a lot of work went into the commissioners, 00:38:17.980 --> 00:38:21.800 went into our HR department and budget and really 00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:24.599 through labor management between the union and 00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:28.369 the executive team at the department. From a 00:38:28.369 --> 00:38:32.090 financial point of view, two years ago now, just 00:38:32.090 --> 00:38:35.809 over two years ago, I went to the IHMC Blue Sky 00:38:35.809 --> 00:38:40.889 with the Marian Fire Chief, their union president, 00:38:41.250 --> 00:38:45.829 Matt was there, Harrison. There was another guy 00:38:45.829 --> 00:38:48.349 from, I think, Ohio Fire Chief. And then everyone 00:38:48.349 --> 00:38:51.429 else in the room was, you know. working with 00:38:51.429 --> 00:38:53.889 special forces, et cetera, et cetera. So high 00:38:53.889 --> 00:38:58.010 level, you know, neuroscientists and psychiatrists 00:38:58.010 --> 00:39:02.289 and, you know, all high level people. And each 00:39:02.289 --> 00:39:04.170 of us kind of got to present on, you know, what 00:39:04.170 --> 00:39:06.230 the issue was. And this was funded by the hospital 00:39:06.230 --> 00:39:09.369 district after Marion had two suicides within 00:39:09.369 --> 00:39:14.429 12 weeks of each other, young people. And ironically, 00:39:14.650 --> 00:39:16.869 like as soon as I presented the shift site, because 00:39:16.869 --> 00:39:19.949 it wasn't being discussed. and show you know 00:39:19.949 --> 00:39:21.750 what a firefighter shift actually looks like 00:39:21.750 --> 00:39:23.690 you know what happens with with understaffing 00:39:23.690 --> 00:39:26.650 and overtime and their takeaway was immediately 00:39:26.650 --> 00:39:29.190 well that's clearly what you need to do first 00:39:29.190 --> 00:39:32.329 you know 24 72 sounds like that's the the biggest 00:39:32.329 --> 00:39:34.630 bang for your buck and again as we hit we talk 00:39:34.630 --> 00:39:36.730 before we hit record that's not the only thing 00:39:36.730 --> 00:39:38.369 we're going to get to other areas that need to 00:39:38.369 --> 00:39:41.750 be addressed as well i wish that it was just 00:39:41.750 --> 00:39:44.730 the health of the people that was enough And 00:39:44.730 --> 00:39:47.989 Sam Gray from Plano, Texas came on a few months 00:39:47.989 --> 00:39:51.210 ago. And for some departments, that is it. They 00:39:51.210 --> 00:39:56.130 have this great communication. But sadly, a lot 00:39:56.130 --> 00:39:59.130 of government organizations, it's the dollars 00:39:59.130 --> 00:40:00.730 and cents that's really going to sell it, even 00:40:00.730 --> 00:40:02.849 if you're losing firefighters, which I don't 00:40:02.849 --> 00:40:04.829 understand that as a human being, but it clearly 00:40:04.829 --> 00:40:07.969 is a thing. So what were you seeing as far as 00:40:07.969 --> 00:40:12.429 the downstream wasted money, taxpayers' money? 00:40:12.860 --> 00:40:15.340 that you were able to show as you said can be 00:40:15.340 --> 00:40:18.940 reinvested in a d -shift um and then justifying 00:40:18.940 --> 00:40:22.059 it fiscally for the city and the taxpayer themselves 00:40:22.059 --> 00:40:29.900 so um so right now so we did a pretty aggressive 00:40:29.900 --> 00:40:34.980 implementation of 24 72s so we still had to even 00:40:34.980 --> 00:40:37.179 though we put on this shift we still had holes 00:40:37.179 --> 00:40:40.170 to fill So unlike some of the other departments, 00:40:40.309 --> 00:40:42.130 Polk County did a three year implementation, 00:40:42.510 --> 00:40:45.170 you know, phasing, phasing their end, you know, 00:40:45.170 --> 00:40:47.789 being able to hire on the back end or on the 00:40:47.789 --> 00:40:50.489 front end, be able to get those promotions and 00:40:50.489 --> 00:40:52.449 stuff going forward until that date actually 00:40:52.449 --> 00:40:55.190 came. Whereas we did a nine month implementation. 00:40:55.210 --> 00:40:56.949 We said, you know what, we're going to move these 00:40:56.949 --> 00:40:59.789 guys over. We're going to fill these roles. We're 00:40:59.789 --> 00:41:01.880 going to have these holes. We're going to have 00:41:01.880 --> 00:41:03.659 lieutenant's holes and driver's holes and fireman 00:41:03.659 --> 00:41:05.500 holes. We'll fill them with overtime while we 00:41:05.500 --> 00:41:08.659 put on our own promotional processes. So that's 00:41:08.659 --> 00:41:12.179 what we do here is in our union contract, the 00:41:12.179 --> 00:41:14.659 department, if we have internal candidates that 00:41:14.659 --> 00:41:19.639 are, that are eligible for promotion, we put 00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:21.619 on the driver's classes, we put on the lieutenant 00:41:21.619 --> 00:41:26.260 series. And so we knew that for two years, two, 00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:30.059 three years. commission knows budget knows that 00:41:30.059 --> 00:41:33.380 it's going to cost a little bit money now but 00:41:33.380 --> 00:41:35.159 this is what's going to be best for us to be 00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:36.960 able to get people through the door to us get 00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:39.320 to that point in three years so that's what we 00:41:39.320 --> 00:41:41.900 did i think we've done in the last three years 00:41:41.900 --> 00:41:45.679 or the last two years i think we've almost done 00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:48.340 six promotional processes between the lieutenants 00:41:48.340 --> 00:41:50.860 and the drivers rank to constantly try to turn 00:41:50.860 --> 00:41:53.400 to fill those positions and then hire the firemen 00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:56.820 on the back end so initially overtime was up 00:41:56.820 --> 00:42:01.079 i got you know i think it was 400 000 little 00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:03.860 over almost five uh just for like six months 00:42:03.860 --> 00:42:05.760 so you're talking about a little a little over 00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:08.739 a million dollars a year for that but what we 00:42:08.739 --> 00:42:11.480 got in turn is we didn't have to go to marion 00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:14.019 or jacksonville or or any of these surrounding 00:42:14.019 --> 00:42:16.199 departments and just take their lieutenants and 00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:18.719 drivers that just want that schedule we didn't 00:42:18.719 --> 00:42:20.800 have to do lateral moves we were able to promote 00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:24.239 our own from within which is what we wanted you 00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:26.599 want the people that are already invested here 00:42:26.599 --> 00:42:29.199 and know the department know the city and and 00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:32.219 get them in there so our overtime numbers are 00:42:32.219 --> 00:42:34.659 a little bit higher but that's what we planned 00:42:34.659 --> 00:42:37.340 for that's what the understanding was between 00:42:37.340 --> 00:42:40.739 the department the union and and city finance 00:42:40.739 --> 00:42:44.320 how many vacancies do you have now in the four 00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:50.579 shifts that you have uh we have seven seven more 00:42:50.579 --> 00:42:53.900 coming on monday and i think we're going to try 00:42:53.900 --> 00:42:56.989 to hire another seven either at the beginning 00:42:56.989 --> 00:43:02.849 of the year uh but that is that'll go to um retirement 00:43:02.849 --> 00:43:06.630 stuff so you're fully staffed pretty much we'll 00:43:06.630 --> 00:43:10.489 be fully staffed with four shifts with four shifts 00:43:10.489 --> 00:43:12.789 just to underline that so you are understaffed 00:43:12.789 --> 00:43:15.469 with three shifts you publicly announced that 00:43:15.469 --> 00:43:18.429 you were going to the 2472 and your recruitment 00:43:18.429 --> 00:43:20.610 was so high that you're now fully staffed with 00:43:20.610 --> 00:43:24.380 four shifts in just over a year Yep. So October 00:43:24.380 --> 00:43:29.480 of 2024, we went to 2472s. And as we sit today, 00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:36.619 we have, yeah, everybody in their lieutenant 00:43:36.619 --> 00:43:40.500 and driver promotable positions. It's nice. We 00:43:40.500 --> 00:43:43.260 get these firemen on, it's even better. This 00:43:43.260 --> 00:43:45.000 is a good time to throw the grenade then. So 00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:49.239 living in Marion County, having fought for this 00:43:49.239 --> 00:43:52.179 change for... I mean, years now, given a lot 00:43:52.179 --> 00:43:54.500 of people within that department, all this information, 00:43:54.920 --> 00:43:58.559 IHMC, like I said, the Blue Sky Project, that 00:43:58.559 --> 00:44:01.659 organization works with NASA and DARPA and Naval 00:44:01.659 --> 00:44:05.800 Special Warfare to solve their problems. They 00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:07.760 were fortunate enough to have that incredible 00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:12.059 group look at this. 2472 was in their report 00:44:12.059 --> 00:44:17.000 as the number one thing to fix. Locally, I know 00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:19.920 that some people in their upper echelon have 00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:23.820 been saying that the 2472 is not working in Gainesville. 00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:27.219 And, you know, I don't understand why when everything 00:44:27.219 --> 00:44:29.900 is laid out as a solution, there's still so much 00:44:29.900 --> 00:44:32.059 resistance to that. But this is a real thing. 00:44:32.119 --> 00:44:34.659 And I've heard it from my friends that are, you 00:44:34.659 --> 00:44:36.500 know, the firefighters within the organization. 00:44:36.519 --> 00:44:38.219 I've heard it from other people that this is 00:44:38.219 --> 00:44:41.780 being told about GFR and that it's failing and 00:44:41.780 --> 00:44:44.500 that you're going to go back to 2448 and it's 00:44:44.500 --> 00:44:48.559 costing too much money. So, you know, talk to 00:44:48.559 --> 00:44:50.840 me about that. I don't know if you've kind of 00:44:50.840 --> 00:44:53.719 heard that on your end or not, but talk to me 00:44:53.719 --> 00:44:56.019 about the successes that you're seeing so we 00:44:56.019 --> 00:45:00.320 can dispel these myths and put that to bed. Well, 00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:05.280 I got a phone call three weeks ago during the 00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:08.280 FPS legislative conference up in Tallahassee 00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:13.900 from one of the presidents. From a president, 00:45:13.980 --> 00:45:17.090 I will say that. their fire chief within their 00:45:17.090 --> 00:45:21.849 lieutenant class was telling them that 2472s 00:45:21.849 --> 00:45:23.929 doesn't work like they were telling them that 00:45:23.929 --> 00:45:26.949 we were going to revert back another department 00:45:26.949 --> 00:45:28.769 you've mentioned on here has kind of said the 00:45:28.769 --> 00:45:32.710 same thing that 2472s are failing and i will 00:45:32.710 --> 00:45:36.090 tell you that's not even close to being true 00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:38.940 Not even close. I can guarantee you they're not 00:45:38.940 --> 00:45:42.119 talking to Chief Hillhouse or the executive team. 00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:44.619 They're not talking to the city commissioners 00:45:44.619 --> 00:45:47.000 here, or they're not talking to anybody in the 00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:50.760 know. I think what those guys are doing is they're 00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:53.119 doing their best job of trying to throw that 00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:56.699 Band -Aid on an issue by trying to cover up and 00:45:56.699 --> 00:45:59.400 try to say somebody else is failing to shed light 00:45:59.400 --> 00:46:01.079 on their own faults without trying to progress. 00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:06.039 So with us, yeah. A year and a half, we're fully 00:46:06.039 --> 00:46:08.920 staffed. And I was telling you, the only time 00:46:08.920 --> 00:46:12.539 overtime happens really now is after these seven 00:46:12.539 --> 00:46:15.059 people is if somebody's on vacation or they're 00:46:15.059 --> 00:46:18.840 sick because we're on a one -for -one. We didn't 00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:21.639 overhire. With that additional people coming 00:46:21.639 --> 00:46:25.360 on, like I was saying, we shifted everybody to 00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:27.380 go to a one -for -one. We were at that 1 .3. 00:46:27.619 --> 00:46:30.840 Those seven that are coming on hopefully at the 00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:33.440 beginning of next year is to make up for that. 00:46:33.800 --> 00:46:36.420 to elevate that again so when you have somebody 00:46:36.420 --> 00:46:38.940 off they fill the slot where you don't have as 00:46:38.940 --> 00:46:43.159 much overtime so yeah that that's far farthest 00:46:43.159 --> 00:46:45.019 from the truth we knew that overtime was going 00:46:45.019 --> 00:46:46.619 to be a little bit more that was the understanding 00:46:46.619 --> 00:46:50.719 from everybody uh but it's worked year and a 00:46:50.719 --> 00:46:54.880 half in we're fully staffed the guys are happy 00:46:54.880 --> 00:46:58.989 we were able to implement some pay Some other 00:46:58.989 --> 00:47:01.429 things we were able to address too with some 00:47:01.429 --> 00:47:04.610 of our benefits that kind of helped that. So 00:47:04.610 --> 00:47:07.250 I would say 24 -72s, if we were losing people 00:47:07.250 --> 00:47:09.570 left and right and still losing 50 % of the department, 00:47:09.710 --> 00:47:14.070 like we lost three guys since 24 -72s, a disciplinary, 00:47:14.389 --> 00:47:20.730 a retirement, and a guy that had to go because 00:47:20.730 --> 00:47:23.849 of family up in North Georgia. So we haven't 00:47:23.849 --> 00:47:27.179 lost another one to a department yet. Well, Jennifer 00:47:27.179 --> 00:47:29.800 Hunt -Murty, a local reporter, founder of the 00:47:29.800 --> 00:47:32.940 Acala Gazette, just published a story on this. 00:47:33.059 --> 00:47:34.519 Yeah, I know you guys talked the other day. You 00:47:34.519 --> 00:47:38.519 were in that piece. Marion County's website says 00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:41.480 they have 500 full -time firefighters, EMTs, 00:47:41.500 --> 00:47:45.019 and paramedics. In five years, Marion County 00:47:45.019 --> 00:47:48.739 has lost 528 employees. So I'm no mathematician, 00:47:48.820 --> 00:47:51.420 but I think that's equivalent to the entire department. 00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:53.039 Obviously, it's not the department, but that 00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:56.550 shows the revolving door element. When we were 00:47:56.550 --> 00:47:59.989 at IHMC, their president pulled some numbers. 00:48:00.530 --> 00:48:07.369 In 2022, there was 173 ,000 overtime hours. And 00:48:07.369 --> 00:48:09.489 if you do that at the average of 30, I'm probably 00:48:09.489 --> 00:48:12.190 lowballing that, but overtime rate of $30 an 00:48:12.190 --> 00:48:18.929 hour, that's $5 ,190 ,000. Now, back then, they 00:48:18.929 --> 00:48:23.179 said that it was $18 ,000 to... hire a new recruit 00:48:23.179 --> 00:48:28.000 so if you do that times 528 that's nine and a 00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:30.719 half million dollars now jennifer talks about 00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:32.659 that price being actually higher because now 00:48:32.659 --> 00:48:36.440 they're training these recruits from school so 00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:40.480 that's 32 uh weeks of pay plus all the the training 00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:43.820 fees and then paying the cadre to teach um so 00:48:43.820 --> 00:48:46.800 she was looking at more about 60 000 per recruit 00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:49.389 and if that's the case Then to replace those 00:48:49.389 --> 00:48:56.170 528, it's $31 .5 million. So this is what really 00:48:56.170 --> 00:48:59.389 blows my mind. You guys have demonstrated the 00:48:59.389 --> 00:49:02.610 success. Dixon Phillips is on here talking about 00:49:02.610 --> 00:49:04.969 the success of PASCO going from a revolving door, 00:49:05.210 --> 00:49:07.650 woefully understaffed department to a destination 00:49:07.650 --> 00:49:10.369 department now where they're fully staffed, four 00:49:10.369 --> 00:49:12.789 shifts, and each hiring class is full of veteran 00:49:12.789 --> 00:49:15.559 firefighters and paramedics. But I mean, all 00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:17.659 those figures alone, I mean, you're talking about 00:49:17.659 --> 00:49:20.380 tens and tens and tens of millions of dollars 00:49:20.380 --> 00:49:23.019 of taxpayers money that's being wasted because 00:49:23.019 --> 00:49:26.000 they are refusing to acknowledge that the solution 00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:28.699 is to invest in their firefighters and put in 00:49:28.699 --> 00:49:31.880 a D shift. So this is what really turns my stomach 00:49:31.880 --> 00:49:35.460 as a resident, as someone who, you know, started 00:49:35.460 --> 00:49:38.039 this whole project because I lost my firefighter 00:49:38.039 --> 00:49:41.599 friends six in two years. That the solution is 00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:44.440 there and the money is there. And you don't have 00:49:44.440 --> 00:49:46.920 to do the Gainesville where you do it in one 00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:49.059 year. You can do the Pasco where you do it in 00:49:49.059 --> 00:49:50.840 two years. You can do the Plano, Texas, where 00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:54.219 you do it in four years. But you have to put 00:49:54.219 --> 00:49:56.599 it out there. We are going to make this change. 00:49:57.599 --> 00:50:00.829 What are you seeing? With all these figures being 00:50:00.829 --> 00:50:04.750 so black and white as far as where the funds 00:50:04.750 --> 00:50:07.650 are, the blueprint that departments like yours 00:50:07.650 --> 00:50:10.550 and Plano and Boynton and Destin and some of 00:50:10.550 --> 00:50:12.369 these other departments have already laid out, 00:50:12.530 --> 00:50:16.030 what is the resistance? Why are people still 00:50:16.030 --> 00:50:19.530 refusing? And let me be very clear, people who 00:50:19.530 --> 00:50:22.090 enjoy a 42 -hour workweek that go home to their 00:50:22.090 --> 00:50:24.800 family at 5 o 'clock every night. Why are they 00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:26.820 not advocating for their men and women who are 00:50:26.820 --> 00:50:29.179 being forced to work 80 plus hours with forced 00:50:29.179 --> 00:50:43.579 overtime? I don't know if they fully understand 00:50:43.579 --> 00:50:46.199 everything that encompasses on being a fireman. 00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:48.679 The medical calls, the fires, the getting up. 00:50:48.760 --> 00:50:53.159 I think the stigma. I think the stigma is, like, 00:50:53.199 --> 00:50:54.599 you know, they stay at the firehouse, they have 00:50:54.599 --> 00:50:56.320 beds at the firehouse, they can sleep, like, 00:50:56.380 --> 00:50:58.500 all these things. I think that may be a stigma 00:50:58.500 --> 00:51:01.920 when it comes to it, not realizing guys are up 00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:03.900 constantly throughout the night running these 00:51:03.900 --> 00:51:08.139 calls, running on, you know, espressos and coffees 00:51:08.139 --> 00:51:10.780 pretty much, you know, to keep their energy up. 00:51:12.980 --> 00:51:16.039 Honestly, don't know the answer to that. I don't 00:51:16.039 --> 00:51:17.860 know if it's, you know, we're not doing a better 00:51:17.860 --> 00:51:21.550 job of displaying exactly what's happening. and 00:51:21.550 --> 00:51:23.889 what it takes in the fire service to become it. 00:51:23.929 --> 00:51:27.710 But it is disheartening when you have a 40 -hour 00:51:27.710 --> 00:51:30.610 employee looking at employees who are working 00:51:30.610 --> 00:51:37.449 42, 56 hours. Or, I mean, the guy I was talking 00:51:37.449 --> 00:51:39.550 to the other night was working 70, 80 hours a 00:51:39.550 --> 00:51:41.989 week because of all that overtime. Like, how 00:51:41.989 --> 00:51:44.809 do you look at those people and say, I deserve 00:51:44.809 --> 00:51:49.010 to go home, but you don't? why you know my family's 00:51:49.010 --> 00:51:50.670 more important but yours is not as important 00:51:50.670 --> 00:51:53.869 like i think that's where it's disheartening 00:51:53.869 --> 00:51:56.489 when you have upper management looking at an 00:51:56.489 --> 00:52:00.929 employee and and you're telling them that you're 00:52:00.929 --> 00:52:03.809 you're just a number like you're just a number 00:52:03.809 --> 00:52:07.210 we'll replace you money's no object when it comes 00:52:07.210 --> 00:52:10.909 to replacing you but to retain you you'll take 00:52:10.909 --> 00:52:13.349 what you'll get and you'll like it and i think 00:52:13.349 --> 00:52:16.429 that's that's bad business all the way around 00:52:18.280 --> 00:52:20.900 Absolutely. I'm going to throw another grenade. 00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:25.360 Your chief, Sean Hillhouse, sat with me on a 00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:27.960 panel for the Florida Fire Chiefs Association 00:52:27.960 --> 00:52:31.159 Health and Safety Conference. And we were with 00:52:31.159 --> 00:52:33.539 Dixon Phillips, president of PASCO, Hugh Bruder, 00:52:33.760 --> 00:52:37.619 chief of Boynton. So a wealth of experience of 00:52:37.619 --> 00:52:40.039 people from different positions that have implemented 00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:43.869 this and we're talking about the successes. do 00:52:43.869 --> 00:52:46.630 that presentation you can sense that some people 00:52:46.630 --> 00:52:49.050 in the audience are like you know starting to 00:52:49.050 --> 00:52:52.489 understand it some people uh one particular one 00:52:52.489 --> 00:52:55.889 a local chief stood up and expressed his um his 00:52:55.889 --> 00:53:00.550 opposition to this whole concept and then a few 00:53:00.550 --> 00:53:03.750 short weeks later someone said to me hey did 00:53:03.750 --> 00:53:06.070 you know what the florida fire chiefs association 00:53:06.070 --> 00:53:11.300 said in response to the House Bill 929 that Danny 00:53:11.300 --> 00:53:14.340 Alvarez presented and Governor DeSantis signed 00:53:14.340 --> 00:53:17.219 recommending a 42 -hour workweek in the state 00:53:17.219 --> 00:53:20.519 of Florida. And they sent me the email. And in 00:53:20.519 --> 00:53:22.239 that bill and multiple other things, and they 00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:23.920 said they agreed with that, but they opposed 00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:27.699 the 42 -hour workweek. And Sean, like I said, 00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:29.699 had given a great presentation along with Dixon 00:53:29.699 --> 00:53:33.280 and Hugh. Talk to me about that. We have this 00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:35.539 national organization, and I want to be very 00:53:35.539 --> 00:53:39.139 clear, not every person that's a fire chief in 00:53:39.139 --> 00:53:41.079 Florida agreed with that, but that was a collective 00:53:41.079 --> 00:53:44.139 decision from that organization, from the people 00:53:44.139 --> 00:53:48.260 at the top. So give me a response to that as 00:53:48.260 --> 00:53:49.980 far as, again, you've got these men and women 00:53:49.980 --> 00:53:52.579 in the trenches being worked to the ground, and 00:53:52.579 --> 00:53:54.900 the chief's organization, chief's association 00:53:54.900 --> 00:53:58.880 is pseudo -publicly saying that they oppose this 00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:04.489 proactive solution. Yeah, I think personally, 00:54:05.369 --> 00:54:08.829 I don't think they I hate that they use the recommended 00:54:08.829 --> 00:54:12.030 thing. I think they didn't want to have to force 00:54:12.030 --> 00:54:16.329 departments to do something. I don't know their 00:54:16.329 --> 00:54:18.389 financial situations. They just didn't want to 00:54:18.389 --> 00:54:20.789 make that because it would eat their budget. 00:54:20.809 --> 00:54:25.320 Their budget's not increasing. So that. That's 00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:27.159 kind of hard for me to answer on why they would 00:54:27.159 --> 00:54:30.260 do that. I know every department that has 2472s, 00:54:30.260 --> 00:54:33.219 those chiefs love it. I mean, the morale increase, 00:54:33.400 --> 00:54:35.719 the people that want to be there, it makes their 00:54:35.719 --> 00:54:39.639 jobs a lot easier. And to see a big organization 00:54:39.639 --> 00:54:43.400 like Florida Fire Chiefs Association, I will 00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:45.440 say oppose it. Because when you put recommend, 00:54:45.699 --> 00:54:48.500 like you're opposing, you're not wanting, if 00:54:48.500 --> 00:54:53.179 you're not progressing, you're regressing. then 00:54:53.179 --> 00:54:54.920 nobody's going to look at you. So they're probably 00:54:54.920 --> 00:54:56.679 struggling more. Those departments that have 00:54:56.679 --> 00:54:58.159 said that, those chiefs that have said that, 00:54:58.199 --> 00:55:00.500 are probably struggling a lot more to try to 00:55:00.500 --> 00:55:02.639 get people through the door and retain those 00:55:02.639 --> 00:55:05.000 people than the ones that are saying, we want 00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:07.980 to move forward. This is not the fire service 00:55:07.980 --> 00:55:12.480 of 10, 20 years ago. This is the new way to do 00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:15.019 things. This is the way that we want to see people 00:55:15.019 --> 00:55:18.380 with their families. We want a work -life balance 00:55:18.380 --> 00:55:20.579 because when you have that, you have better employees. 00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:25.679 Absolutely. I want to throw something else at 00:55:25.679 --> 00:55:29.659 you as well. In this conversation now, where, 00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:32.780 again, the solution is presented as a 24 -72, 00:55:33.099 --> 00:55:35.820 and let me be honest, let me be very clear. Of 00:55:35.820 --> 00:55:38.420 course, it requires a leader to actually lead. 00:55:38.500 --> 00:55:41.719 You've got to have these more challenging conversations 00:55:41.719 --> 00:55:44.500 with your cities and your counties. I would argue, 00:55:44.599 --> 00:55:47.579 really, the people that really need to hear the 00:55:47.579 --> 00:55:50.739 pros and the cons of the taxpayer. I've said 00:55:50.739 --> 00:55:53.719 this a lot. If your level of service is diminishing, 00:55:53.800 --> 00:55:56.860 like going back to Anaheim, California, if our 00:55:56.860 --> 00:55:59.699 truck showed up on your call, you had a combined 00:55:59.699 --> 00:56:02.860 experience of, you know, like 50 plus years on 00:56:02.860 --> 00:56:06.300 that rig. Now, you know, you might have three, 00:56:06.340 --> 00:56:08.119 you know, two, excuse me, let me start again. 00:56:08.199 --> 00:56:10.280 You might have four, maybe even three people 00:56:10.280 --> 00:56:12.179 on that rig, but the combined experience could 00:56:12.179 --> 00:56:16.519 be nine years in that entire rig. As we mentioned, 00:56:16.659 --> 00:56:18.400 you know, I know it's changed now, but this was 00:56:18.400 --> 00:56:21.280 a reality for us for a long time. Now, you know, 00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:23.000 that ambulance that you thought was going to 00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:25.400 be right next to you in that station ready for 00:56:25.400 --> 00:56:27.400 your emergency call for your loved one is now 00:56:27.400 --> 00:56:29.780 the other side of town doing inter -facility 00:56:29.780 --> 00:56:33.739 transport. So I've said, well, does the taxpayer 00:56:33.739 --> 00:56:36.059 know this? Are we giving the taxpayer a refund 00:56:36.059 --> 00:56:38.579 for this diminished level of service? You know, 00:56:38.579 --> 00:56:40.980 this is the group that we need to be educating 00:56:40.980 --> 00:56:46.329 really as to. you know, the impact of the refusal 00:56:46.329 --> 00:56:49.389 to make changes on the taxpayer themselves. And 00:56:49.389 --> 00:56:51.190 this is, as I said, these millions that we're 00:56:51.190 --> 00:56:54.150 talking about, not to mention, you know, my tax 00:56:54.150 --> 00:56:56.889 is now going to be going to the lawsuits attached 00:56:56.889 --> 00:56:59.969 to Station 21's debacle with this hazing and 00:56:59.969 --> 00:57:03.469 these inappropriate terminations of some other 00:57:03.469 --> 00:57:06.309 people. That's going to be us, the Marion County 00:57:06.309 --> 00:57:10.099 taxpayer, paying those bills as well. The solution 00:57:10.099 --> 00:57:12.400 that I'm hearing, though, is people go, well, 00:57:12.420 --> 00:57:14.840 we're just going to go to the Kelly Day. Now, 00:57:14.920 --> 00:57:16.980 please correct me if I'm wrong, but if you've 00:57:16.980 --> 00:57:19.440 got an understaffed department already and you 00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:22.679 put in a Kelly Day, you are punching even more 00:57:22.679 --> 00:57:24.880 holes into the schedule without adding any extra 00:57:24.880 --> 00:57:28.179 people. As you alluded to, it's not competitive 00:57:28.179 --> 00:57:30.960 these days. Kelly Day is like a 30 -year -old 00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:34.780 solution now. So now, you know, you and I have 00:57:34.780 --> 00:57:37.489 a Wednesday Kelly. There's no one there to fill 00:57:37.489 --> 00:57:39.550 it. So we end up working our Kelly day anyway. 00:57:39.670 --> 00:57:41.690 So we don't get any rest and recovery, but they've 00:57:41.690 --> 00:57:45.190 paid us time and a half. So now no one's actually 00:57:45.190 --> 00:57:47.309 got any more rest and it's costing the taxpayer 00:57:47.309 --> 00:57:51.710 even more money versus taking that money, investing 00:57:51.710 --> 00:57:55.349 in a D shift over, like I said, two, three, four 00:57:55.349 --> 00:57:57.989 years, whatever you need to make that doable. 00:57:59.050 --> 00:58:01.269 And now you're actually saving money, as you 00:58:01.269 --> 00:58:04.150 just discussed, as Pascoe's discussed, because 00:58:04.150 --> 00:58:06.329 yes, like you said, you had a higher overtime 00:58:06.329 --> 00:58:08.849 while you made the transition, but now you're 00:58:08.849 --> 00:58:12.309 fully staffed. So there's the math. So what is 00:58:12.309 --> 00:58:15.630 your perspective on this conversation of doing 00:58:15.630 --> 00:58:18.070 a Kelly rather than making the bold transition 00:58:18.070 --> 00:58:23.610 to the 24 -72? Well, the only way a Kelly works 00:58:23.610 --> 00:58:26.340 is if you have the extra people. Like if you 00:58:26.340 --> 00:58:28.619 had, if you were overstaffed and you can fill 00:58:28.619 --> 00:58:30.920 those holes, cause then it is nothing but overtime. 00:58:31.019 --> 00:58:33.860 You're filling it with mandated overtime. Me, 00:58:33.980 --> 00:58:37.179 I probably should look at how Pasco really did 00:58:37.179 --> 00:58:41.000 theirs. I think transitioning to a Kelly is fine. 00:58:41.739 --> 00:58:45.349 If you're trying, if the. If the end result is 00:58:45.349 --> 00:58:48.110 to 2472, if you're just trying to, if it's a 00:58:48.110 --> 00:58:50.349 financial thing, starting to try to transition 00:58:50.349 --> 00:58:53.869 to chop at that, that if you implement a six 00:58:53.869 --> 00:58:56.429 week K day, the first year to hire on those people 00:58:56.429 --> 00:58:58.929 to fill those roles, the next year, a three year 00:58:58.929 --> 00:59:02.090 Kelly day. And then that third year you're at 00:59:02.090 --> 00:59:05.150 2472 is like, you're able to transition to train 00:59:05.150 --> 00:59:07.769 those people to get there while maintaining some 00:59:07.769 --> 00:59:10.590 relief. I think that that goes a long way for 00:59:10.590 --> 00:59:13.320 the body. That, I think, is fine. If you're just 00:59:13.320 --> 00:59:16.840 going to say, hey, we'll do 24 -48 with a six 00:59:16.840 --> 00:59:19.460 -week Kelly Day, but we're not going to hire 00:59:19.460 --> 00:59:22.159 anybody or this and that, that's not going to 00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:24.280 work. That's not even putting a Band -Aid on 00:59:24.280 --> 00:59:28.039 it. To me, that's probably rubbing a little bit 00:59:28.039 --> 00:59:29.400 of salt in the room. It's like, no, we'll give 00:59:29.400 --> 00:59:31.320 you this, but we're not going to give you what 00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:35.139 you actually deserve and you need. But, yeah, 00:59:35.219 --> 00:59:36.960 I think it only works if you're transitioning 00:59:36.960 --> 00:59:40.079 that way, and it is. I think Alachua County. 00:59:40.730 --> 00:59:42.590 I think they're going to a three week Kelly day. 00:59:42.650 --> 00:59:45.050 And I would say probably eventually they will 00:59:45.050 --> 00:59:48.070 transition at some point. Yeah. But you're just 00:59:48.070 --> 00:59:49.889 not going to get the increase in recruitment. 00:59:49.949 --> 00:59:52.409 And this is what Plano, Texas did. They took 00:59:52.409 --> 00:59:54.469 four years. They had no Kelly day at all. And 00:59:54.469 --> 00:59:55.929 it's interesting. And people talked about you 00:59:55.929 --> 00:59:58.590 having Kelly's and, and Pasco, but you guys were 00:59:58.590 --> 01:00:01.010 six week Kelly. So that's almost not Kelly. So 01:00:01.010 --> 01:00:03.610 you had a big chasm that both of you filled yours 01:00:03.610 --> 01:00:05.650 in a year, Pasco in two years, and they're a 01:00:05.650 --> 01:00:09.409 large County, but, but Plano. What they did is, 01:00:09.429 --> 01:00:11.289 okay, we need a little bit more time. It's a 01:00:11.289 --> 01:00:14.409 pretty big city. And so they said, all right, 01:00:14.429 --> 01:00:17.070 this is our four -year plan. Year four is a 24 01:00:17.070 --> 01:00:20.190 -72. That then forged their recruitment spike. 01:00:20.690 --> 01:00:22.849 Year one, just like you said, we hire enough 01:00:22.849 --> 01:00:25.929 to fill the gaps of our three shifts and then 01:00:25.929 --> 01:00:27.889 cover enough for a six -week alley. So those 01:00:27.889 --> 01:00:31.090 new people are filling the void. So James and 01:00:31.090 --> 01:00:33.340 David actually... have to go home and rest and 01:00:33.340 --> 01:00:35.539 and it's it's single time that's covering us 01:00:35.539 --> 01:00:38.219 saying year two it's a three week kelly year 01:00:38.219 --> 01:00:41.940 three 24 72 with debit days year four full 24 01:00:41.940 --> 01:00:45.739 72 i'm almost guaranteed that that will be compressed 01:00:45.739 --> 01:00:47.360 in play you know i've got a funny feeling they're 01:00:47.360 --> 01:00:50.280 just gonna snowball just like uh pasco did i 01:00:50.280 --> 01:00:52.000 think they had a two and a half year plan it 01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:54.659 became a two -year plan and even then before 01:00:54.659 --> 01:01:00.219 yeah yeah i think i think once the ball gets 01:01:00.219 --> 01:01:02.679 rolling you announce You put on a date. Like 01:01:02.679 --> 01:01:04.599 I said, we were aggressive on ours because we 01:01:04.599 --> 01:01:07.539 needed it. That's what we needed here. But I 01:01:07.539 --> 01:01:09.659 think that Pasco and Plano model is probably 01:01:09.659 --> 01:01:12.599 better, especially if it works out for them. 01:01:12.659 --> 01:01:14.760 But implementing it over time, but you have it 01:01:14.760 --> 01:01:18.320 like, hey, three years, 24 -72s, here's the plan. 01:01:18.440 --> 01:01:21.199 We're going to get you there. Come join us. We're 01:01:21.199 --> 01:01:24.280 on the right path. And I think people gravitate 01:01:24.280 --> 01:01:26.739 to that. And they'll look where they're at. And 01:01:26.739 --> 01:01:29.099 it could be the 18 -year -old comparing departments. 01:01:30.579 --> 01:01:33.059 if you got a guy that's looking at their department, 01:01:33.179 --> 01:01:35.960 like we're, we're not going there. Like these 01:01:35.960 --> 01:01:38.440 guys are at home, they're doing this, they're 01:01:38.440 --> 01:01:41.219 progressive. Like it's time for me to make a 01:01:41.219 --> 01:01:42.840 switch. What's better for my family. And I think 01:01:42.840 --> 01:01:46.059 that comes with age too. Like 18, 19, 20, you're 01:01:46.059 --> 01:01:47.699 not really thinking about that. You get up there 01:01:47.699 --> 01:01:49.940 mid twenties, thirties, you're having kids. Like 01:01:49.940 --> 01:01:52.539 you start valuing things a little bit differently 01:01:52.539 --> 01:01:55.840 when, when you start up. making your own family 01:01:55.840 --> 01:01:57.920 at that point of what's what's important here 01:01:57.920 --> 01:01:59.860 like yeah you want to serve the citizens but 01:01:59.860 --> 01:02:02.260 you also have these little ones at home and a 01:02:02.260 --> 01:02:06.159 wife to uh keep satisfied that uh you need to 01:02:06.159 --> 01:02:08.119 be able to balance out both so you can enjoy 01:02:08.119 --> 01:02:11.860 both worlds i've heard people say well we have 01:02:11.860 --> 01:02:14.400 you know we have a deficit of firefighters in 01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:16.400 the state of florida so all these departments 01:02:16.400 --> 01:02:20.239 are doing is just stealing our firefighters And 01:02:20.239 --> 01:02:22.619 going back to what we just both talked about, 01:02:22.659 --> 01:02:24.380 how competitive it was at the beginning of our 01:02:24.380 --> 01:02:28.320 careers, I couldn't disagree more. The phrase, 01:02:28.480 --> 01:02:30.619 the rising tide lifts all ships, is how we should 01:02:30.619 --> 01:02:32.780 be looking at it. You've got your early adopters, 01:02:32.800 --> 01:02:35.099 the Gainesvilles, the Pascos, the Boyntons, who 01:02:35.099 --> 01:02:37.900 are forging a path. And thank goodness, you know, 01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:39.960 I mean, this is, we've always known about Boca, 01:02:40.019 --> 01:02:42.679 but Boca was this, again, rainbow farting unicorn. 01:02:42.940 --> 01:02:46.139 It was the unicorn out there. But they actually 01:02:46.139 --> 01:02:48.059 was just doing it right. And the origin story, 01:02:48.199 --> 01:02:51.139 funny enough, of Boca was they were on 12s. The 01:02:51.139 --> 01:02:54.639 24 shift was a punishment. Once they switched 01:02:54.639 --> 01:02:56.380 to that, the guys were like, yeah, we're not 01:02:56.380 --> 01:02:59.719 going back. This is amazing. So, but, you know, 01:02:59.719 --> 01:03:03.000 so now as we start changing the fire service, 01:03:03.059 --> 01:03:05.539 because I've always said. When we were young 01:03:05.539 --> 01:03:07.880 going in and you went on the internet looking 01:03:07.880 --> 01:03:09.860 about how to be a firefighter, all you really 01:03:09.860 --> 01:03:13.059 found apart from Ladder 49 and, you know, Backdraft 01:03:13.059 --> 01:03:17.619 was, you know, how to ace your chief's interview, 01:03:17.840 --> 01:03:20.000 like things like that. There was nothing on cancer 01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:22.659 and suicide and, you know, all the things, divorces, 01:03:22.679 --> 01:03:26.440 alcoholism. Now fast forward to 2026 in this 01:03:26.440 --> 01:03:28.380 internet age that we're in, you know, you can 01:03:28.380 --> 01:03:31.440 ask Google or chat GPT or whatever. Is it healthy 01:03:31.440 --> 01:03:33.320 to be a firefighter? And all of a sudden, oh, 01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:35.360 my God. And what's the firefighter work week? 01:03:35.380 --> 01:03:38.260 Well, 56, but this is mandatory overtime. That's 01:03:38.260 --> 01:03:41.000 all there now. It's out there. So these young 01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:43.179 people are looking at this going, and these young 01:03:43.179 --> 01:03:45.519 people have to be very clear, Gen Z are going 01:03:45.519 --> 01:03:48.760 into the trades a lot more because they're also 01:03:48.760 --> 01:03:51.679 chat GBTing, is it worth going to college? And 01:03:51.679 --> 01:03:52.760 they're like, unless you're going to be a doctor 01:03:52.760 --> 01:03:55.099 or a lawyer, a lot of times, no. You've got tens 01:03:55.099 --> 01:03:56.539 of thousands of dollars of debt and a piece of 01:03:56.539 --> 01:03:58.760 paper that doesn't guarantee you a job. So they 01:03:58.760 --> 01:04:01.909 are going into our. similar professions, but 01:04:01.909 --> 01:04:04.889 they spend a year in college and become a welder 01:04:04.889 --> 01:04:06.829 and make hundreds of thousands of dollars and 01:04:06.829 --> 01:04:08.849 they go home when they're supposed to go home 01:04:08.849 --> 01:04:13.630 compared to the fire service, underpaid, overworked. 01:04:13.949 --> 01:04:16.690 They're smart. They value their physical health, 01:04:16.849 --> 01:04:18.469 their emotional health, their relationships. 01:04:19.789 --> 01:04:23.610 So it's very exciting that we can go back to 01:04:23.610 --> 01:04:26.309 the level of competition that it... should be 01:04:26.309 --> 01:04:28.829 to be a firefighter. It's no different to be 01:04:28.829 --> 01:04:31.789 an ocean lifeguard in Hawaii or a Navy SEAL. 01:04:32.090 --> 01:04:34.090 These are professions where lives are at stake 01:04:34.090 --> 01:04:36.869 and we shouldn't be taking the entire list. I 01:04:36.869 --> 01:04:39.949 think one of my friends in Ocala was saying that 01:04:39.949 --> 01:04:42.710 I think they had like three positions. And I 01:04:42.710 --> 01:04:44.269 don't want to misquote, but it was something 01:04:44.269 --> 01:04:46.469 like five applicants or something like that. 01:04:46.510 --> 01:04:48.469 It was crazy. And you're hearing this over and 01:04:48.469 --> 01:04:50.449 over again. So you look at the ratios of, well, 01:04:50.449 --> 01:04:52.369 who are you getting? And then what's the downstream 01:04:52.369 --> 01:04:55.400 cost of the wrong employee? One of my police 01:04:55.400 --> 01:04:57.800 guests said that for every person that you're 01:04:57.800 --> 01:04:59.940 trying to get rid of that should never have been 01:04:59.940 --> 01:05:03.739 hired costs half a million dollars. So, you know, 01:05:03.739 --> 01:05:05.199 now you're going to these high schools and begging 01:05:05.199 --> 01:05:07.619 these kids to become firefighters, of which some 01:05:07.619 --> 01:05:09.940 are going to be phenomenal firefighters, but 01:05:09.940 --> 01:05:12.139 some are going to be a damn liability and cost 01:05:12.139 --> 01:05:16.219 you a lot of money. So I think that looking at 01:05:16.219 --> 01:05:18.500 this as whoever's blazing the path is then opening 01:05:18.500 --> 01:05:21.099 the doors for other to follow. And now we're 01:05:21.099 --> 01:05:23.820 going to reignite the passion to be a firefighter 01:05:23.820 --> 01:05:26.619 in young American men and women. We're going 01:05:26.619 --> 01:05:29.539 to go back to that level of competition. But 01:05:29.539 --> 01:05:32.079 we're not if people dig their heels in and don't 01:05:32.079 --> 01:05:34.280 have the guts to actually forge that same path 01:05:34.280 --> 01:05:39.639 in their own department. Yeah, I agree. It's 01:05:39.639 --> 01:05:42.639 funny you said, you know, Ocala got three, five 01:05:42.639 --> 01:05:45.900 applicants out of three. We were at those type 01:05:45.900 --> 01:05:48.900 of numbers, like a tour 24 -72s. We were lucky 01:05:48.900 --> 01:05:51.039 if there were seven positions, we were hoping 01:05:51.039 --> 01:05:54.559 we can interview seven people. You know, we didn't 01:05:54.559 --> 01:05:58.019 have it where you took that top tier anymore 01:05:58.019 --> 01:06:01.159 of hundreds of applicants and stuff like that. 01:06:01.219 --> 01:06:03.260 Like this last time we were able to do that, 01:06:03.300 --> 01:06:06.199 I think, you know, I had the chief text me, you 01:06:06.199 --> 01:06:09.119 know, we think we interviewed, we brought in 01:06:09.119 --> 01:06:11.679 39 people to interview out of the tier that we 01:06:11.679 --> 01:06:16.050 were. we wanted for seven positions. To me, that's, 01:06:16.050 --> 01:06:19.050 you know, you're going after quality at that 01:06:19.050 --> 01:06:20.949 point instead of just trying to fill the holes. 01:06:21.989 --> 01:06:24.309 And that's where we need to go. You know, we 01:06:24.309 --> 01:06:26.570 are a young department because of 24 -7 dudes 01:06:26.570 --> 01:06:29.070 we hired. We're young. We spread the experience 01:06:29.070 --> 01:06:32.369 off of round four serves so we can kind of balance 01:06:32.369 --> 01:06:34.949 that out along with the DCs and the lieutenants 01:06:34.949 --> 01:06:39.449 and all the way down. We did a non -certified 01:06:39.449 --> 01:06:42.869 hiring group, and I want to say it was in 2022, 01:06:43.250 --> 01:06:48.849 was our last, maybe one year after that. I don't 01:06:48.849 --> 01:06:51.650 want to misspeak here, but those guys have actually 01:06:51.650 --> 01:06:54.289 turned out really well that we spent out. We 01:06:54.289 --> 01:06:57.650 got lucky, but they weren't 18, 19. They were 01:06:57.650 --> 01:07:00.869 a little bit older, 20, 21. We got a good group 01:07:00.869 --> 01:07:04.659 of kids. We chose a maturity level, I think, 01:07:04.659 --> 01:07:09.460 that kind of meets our needs. The fire service 01:07:09.460 --> 01:07:13.320 as a whole here recently, I think we got to do 01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:16.739 better on selling it. I've always told everybody 01:07:16.739 --> 01:07:20.079 being a fireman is the best job in the world 01:07:20.079 --> 01:07:22.400 and it's the best kept secret in the world as 01:07:22.400 --> 01:07:24.719 well on the things we're able to do. I mean, 01:07:24.739 --> 01:07:26.460 you go into the house of these guys and girls 01:07:26.460 --> 01:07:30.199 and, you know, it's almost like you're hanging 01:07:30.199 --> 01:07:33.099 out again with your buddies. you know from school 01:07:33.099 --> 01:07:37.659 and this and that and like it's just a it's a 01:07:37.659 --> 01:07:40.139 different feeling instead of going in like unfortunately 01:07:40.139 --> 01:07:43.000 now i'm i'm in the office now so i've got four 01:07:43.000 --> 01:07:45.619 walls but you know when you're going into the 01:07:45.619 --> 01:07:47.579 stations and stuff like that you're not stuck 01:07:47.579 --> 01:07:49.659 in a cubicle and you're just stuck at the computer 01:07:49.659 --> 01:07:52.500 and you're doing the nonchalant like just busy 01:07:52.500 --> 01:07:54.460 work and stuff like that like you're able to 01:07:54.460 --> 01:07:57.300 have these conversations and have that camaraderie 01:07:57.300 --> 01:08:00.300 and build each other up like this the fire service 01:08:00.300 --> 01:08:03.610 is the best kept secret and i think now it's 01:08:03.610 --> 01:08:07.150 we got to do a better job the administration 01:08:07.150 --> 01:08:08.949 needs to do better job like every department 01:08:08.949 --> 01:08:12.750 should have a pio out there some kind of social 01:08:12.750 --> 01:08:15.070 media specialist that's just putting everything 01:08:15.070 --> 01:08:17.590 out there that the fire service does the fires 01:08:17.590 --> 01:08:20.670 the ems calls the the wrecks that are going to 01:08:20.670 --> 01:08:24.369 but overall like this is what we do this is why 01:08:24.369 --> 01:08:26.229 we're great this is why the fire service is great 01:08:26.229 --> 01:08:30.229 i mean the the president stands up there you 01:08:30.229 --> 01:08:33.590 know Talking about trades. Talking about trades. 01:08:33.630 --> 01:08:35.270 Going through the trades. You can make this as 01:08:35.270 --> 01:08:38.510 a welder. You can make this. And I think we should 01:08:38.510 --> 01:08:41.770 be a part of that group as well. Absolutely. 01:08:42.029 --> 01:08:44.689 And it is. I mean, this is why I still fight 01:08:44.689 --> 01:08:46.510 for the profession now. I haven't worn the uniform 01:08:46.510 --> 01:08:49.189 for over seven years. And I found myself kind 01:08:49.189 --> 01:08:52.430 of stepping outside because being inside, I just 01:08:52.430 --> 01:08:54.670 wasn't able to make the change in that last department 01:08:54.670 --> 01:08:57.850 I was at. But it is the greatest profession. 01:08:58.090 --> 01:09:00.069 I mean, you think about the Swiss Army knife 01:09:00.069 --> 01:09:03.710 that a firefighter paramedic is and what we might 01:09:03.710 --> 01:09:05.770 have to do when the tones go off. Everything 01:09:05.770 --> 01:09:07.829 from just simply cleaning, you know, cleaning 01:09:07.829 --> 01:09:09.850 an elderly woman up and putting her back to bed 01:09:09.850 --> 01:09:12.170 to, you know, hanging off the side of a building 01:09:12.170 --> 01:09:14.550 to going down a confined space to I mean, you 01:09:14.550 --> 01:09:16.590 name it, you know, snake removal. I've done all 01:09:16.590 --> 01:09:19.229 kinds of stuff, you know, in the career that 01:09:19.229 --> 01:09:22.310 I've had. But it is it's amazing. But we can't 01:09:22.310 --> 01:09:25.390 keep. you know, feeding this fallacy that we 01:09:25.390 --> 01:09:28.229 just fight fire. And then we sit around the firehouse 01:09:28.229 --> 01:09:30.489 all day playing cards and petting the Dalmatian. 01:09:30.489 --> 01:09:35.510 And, you know, it's 1950s fire service that was 01:09:35.510 --> 01:09:38.390 still kind of perpetuating. You mentioned about 01:09:38.390 --> 01:09:41.310 the non -cert. I think where there's a beautiful 01:09:41.310 --> 01:09:44.350 opportunity to use that as well. I love Ocala 01:09:44.350 --> 01:09:47.029 Marion's mentorship program here. They do incredible 01:09:47.029 --> 01:09:50.710 work. Because there are some populations that 01:09:50.710 --> 01:09:53.029 are underserved and, you know, primarily financially, 01:09:53.250 --> 01:09:55.590 it's expensive to go to fire academy. It's expensive 01:09:55.590 --> 01:09:58.909 to go to EMT and medic school. So I love that 01:09:58.909 --> 01:10:02.590 as another option to go in, not to scoop up X 01:10:02.590 --> 01:10:04.750 amount of people because you need to fill certain 01:10:04.750 --> 01:10:08.090 quotas, but more to go into underserved areas 01:10:08.090 --> 01:10:11.939 and challenge those young men and women to. reach 01:10:11.939 --> 01:10:14.199 that bar and see if the fire service is the right 01:10:14.199 --> 01:10:16.579 match for them. And so I think that's where a 01:10:16.579 --> 01:10:19.060 non -cert program really has value is sponsoring 01:10:19.060 --> 01:10:21.880 people that maybe just don't have the funds to 01:10:21.880 --> 01:10:24.420 put themselves through fire school and then, 01:10:24.439 --> 01:10:26.420 you know, bringing them into the fire service 01:10:26.420 --> 01:10:29.079 as well. So I think it has a place, but not as 01:10:29.079 --> 01:10:31.180 a blanket. Let's fill every spot with a non -cert. 01:10:32.420 --> 01:10:36.680 Yeah. So we actually have that. So we, so it 01:10:36.680 --> 01:10:39.920 is, it is a non -certified program. It's put 01:10:39.920 --> 01:10:43.350 on. the it's through a grant program that the 01:10:43.350 --> 01:10:45.970 city of gainesville gainesville fire rescue and 01:10:45.970 --> 01:10:48.729 the brother in action have um you meet certain 01:10:48.729 --> 01:10:51.010 criteria you have to make less you have to live 01:10:51.010 --> 01:10:53.909 within the city limits uh there is that but that 01:10:53.909 --> 01:10:56.630 doesn't guarantee you a job here um it's not 01:10:56.630 --> 01:10:58.369 one of them things that all because you go through 01:10:58.369 --> 01:11:00.869 this but it was more to elevate the community 01:11:00.869 --> 01:11:04.710 to elevate the fire service that if you go through 01:11:04.710 --> 01:11:08.069 it it's If you don't want to work here, that's 01:11:08.069 --> 01:11:10.369 fine, but we're going to elevate the fire service 01:11:10.369 --> 01:11:15.850 and these guys here that are underserved. I don't 01:11:15.850 --> 01:11:17.270 want to say underprivileged because these are 01:11:17.270 --> 01:11:18.850 really good people that are going through this, 01:11:18.949 --> 01:11:22.630 but we do have that. It just doesn't guarantee 01:11:22.630 --> 01:11:25.510 them a job here. Yeah, I think that's brilliant. 01:11:26.130 --> 01:11:27.850 One more thing I want to make sure we talk about. 01:11:27.909 --> 01:11:30.170 I want to go to some challenges that you have 01:11:30.170 --> 01:11:32.909 with 2472 and then as we... mentioned before 01:11:32.909 --> 01:11:34.930 we hit record we'll also talk about some other 01:11:34.930 --> 01:11:38.630 force multipliers to to address as well in this 01:11:38.630 --> 01:11:41.470 whole crisis but one of the misnomers and i had 01:11:41.470 --> 01:11:43.949 a friend of mine um on the show who was a former 01:11:43.949 --> 01:11:46.550 uf football player you know and there are some 01:11:46.550 --> 01:11:50.539 fallacies as far as um you know the the amount 01:11:50.539 --> 01:11:53.220 of income that you get from uf and some of these 01:11:53.220 --> 01:11:55.420 other organizations because this is one of the 01:11:55.420 --> 01:11:57.600 pushbacks i've heard too from here locally is 01:11:57.600 --> 01:11:59.399 all well gainesville's got all this money you 01:11:59.399 --> 01:12:02.060 know so let's let's debunk another myth shall 01:12:02.060 --> 01:12:07.819 we we received zero money from the university 01:12:07.819 --> 01:12:11.939 of florida so uh how our budget worked is through 01:12:11.939 --> 01:12:15.460 property taxes and through our fire assessment 01:12:15.460 --> 01:12:20.859 fee I don't, it's gotta be 40, 50, 60 % of the 01:12:20.859 --> 01:12:23.539 city of Gainesville is non -tax because of the 01:12:23.539 --> 01:12:26.380 university of Florida. Um, they don't, they don't 01:12:26.380 --> 01:12:28.899 give us anything. We run calls there all the 01:12:28.899 --> 01:12:31.439 time. We got stations around it, but they don't 01:12:31.439 --> 01:12:34.939 pay per call. They don't give us a yearly million 01:12:34.939 --> 01:12:37.619 dollars or something like that. Um, they bought 01:12:37.619 --> 01:12:40.180 us a fire truck, I think because of the amount 01:12:40.180 --> 01:12:43.479 of calls we were running, like back in, uh, like 01:12:43.949 --> 01:12:47.130 2010, somewhere around there. That truck's not 01:12:47.130 --> 01:12:50.270 even in service anymore. So, and they got us 01:12:50.270 --> 01:12:53.649 Halligan bars during that time. But you know 01:12:53.649 --> 01:12:57.310 what I mean? Like it. We've received nothing 01:12:57.310 --> 01:12:59.689 from them. What they do do is, I mean, when the 01:12:59.689 --> 01:13:02.569 Gator games happen, like we staff a hazmat team 01:13:02.569 --> 01:13:06.170 there. They pay for the hazmat team, but we bill 01:13:06.170 --> 01:13:08.890 them for that because they want us there. And 01:13:08.890 --> 01:13:13.130 for medical around the stadium through our MRUs, 01:13:13.210 --> 01:13:15.909 we run two MRUs there. That's all they pay for. 01:13:15.989 --> 01:13:18.670 They just pay for that day of service of why 01:13:18.670 --> 01:13:20.369 we're there because they're bringing in 100 ,000 01:13:20.369 --> 01:13:23.029 people. But on a year -to -year basis, that's 01:13:23.029 --> 01:13:27.180 it. They don't contribute whatsoever to other 01:13:27.180 --> 01:13:31.979 than the jobs like they bring in tax wise, the 01:13:31.979 --> 01:13:34.340 department budget, city's budget or anything 01:13:34.340 --> 01:13:38.859 like that. Nothing goes into our pockets over 01:13:38.859 --> 01:13:42.140 here from the University of Florida. What's the 01:13:42.140 --> 01:13:44.359 history of that? Because I can imagine I actually 01:13:44.359 --> 01:13:46.279 went to UF just a few years ago. I finished up 01:13:46.279 --> 01:13:50.000 my sports science degree. and i can imagine not 01:13:50.000 --> 01:13:52.039 only the teaching areas but all the halls of 01:13:52.039 --> 01:13:54.079 residence i mean every time i've ever worked 01:13:54.079 --> 01:13:56.840 near some sort of educational facility the afas 01:13:56.840 --> 01:14:01.340 alone in those places were unending so what i 01:14:01.340 --> 01:14:03.739 imagine there is you know a lot of response into 01:14:03.739 --> 01:14:06.720 their property what's the back story of them 01:14:06.720 --> 01:14:12.560 not paying any tax towards um fire um i know 01:14:12.560 --> 01:14:14.680 it's been a conversation like they've had a bunch 01:14:14.680 --> 01:14:18.039 of conversations like Not just fire, but utilities 01:14:18.039 --> 01:14:22.880 and stuff like that that they utilize. I don't 01:14:22.880 --> 01:14:24.220 know if I necessarily want to get in the weeds 01:14:24.220 --> 01:14:28.000 of that because I'm not that educated on it whatsoever, 01:14:28.060 --> 01:14:30.260 but I can tell you we don't receive anything 01:14:30.260 --> 01:14:33.180 from them. Well, this is, I mean, we all want 01:14:33.180 --> 01:14:34.840 to transition, but just to finish with Marion 01:14:34.840 --> 01:14:37.979 as well, this is what kills me. There is construction. 01:14:39.319 --> 01:14:42.800 Every corner of this county now is blown up. 01:14:42.859 --> 01:14:44.979 We've got the World Equestrian Center. I mean, 01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:48.640 hundreds of thousands of acres. I mean, huge, 01:14:49.159 --> 01:14:52.279 huge, huge facility. I mean, absolutely incredible. 01:14:53.020 --> 01:14:56.439 So there's no way in hell that there isn't tax 01:14:56.439 --> 01:15:00.539 to fund, not to mention all the downstream wastage 01:15:00.539 --> 01:15:03.520 as well, but income coming in. So I think this 01:15:03.520 --> 01:15:04.939 has to be a conversation. And if they're not 01:15:04.939 --> 01:15:07.250 taxing these businesses. then that needs to be 01:15:07.250 --> 01:15:09.109 something that the taxpayer knows because now 01:15:09.109 --> 01:15:11.890 these resources that we paid for that are supposed 01:15:11.890 --> 01:15:14.090 to be responding to our homes are now being stretched 01:15:14.090 --> 01:15:19.210 even further to cover these new areas. So debunking 01:15:19.210 --> 01:15:21.010 that whole myth that there isn't the money, especially 01:15:21.010 --> 01:15:23.689 now we're in this absolute construction boom 01:15:23.689 --> 01:15:27.720 again, we've got to... look in the mirror and 01:15:27.720 --> 01:15:30.340 go, how can you tell people that there isn't 01:15:30.340 --> 01:15:32.579 money when there must be, you know, millions 01:15:32.579 --> 01:15:35.119 and millions and millions of taxpayers, you know, 01:15:35.119 --> 01:15:37.399 from these businesses, from these homes that 01:15:37.399 --> 01:15:40.380 are being built coming into the county. So, and 01:15:40.380 --> 01:15:42.479 then in your case, you know, at what point do 01:15:42.479 --> 01:15:44.460 you draw a line in the sand and say, hey, you 01:15:44.460 --> 01:15:48.840 know, we are responding consistently, constantly 01:15:48.840 --> 01:15:51.720 to your facilities. We have to have a conversation 01:15:51.720 --> 01:15:54.420 about. you know support in the fire service or 01:15:54.420 --> 01:15:56.220 law enforcement or utilities or whatever the 01:15:56.220 --> 01:15:59.619 conversation is um you know it's i don't know 01:15:59.619 --> 01:16:03.840 we can't do you know more with less there has 01:16:03.840 --> 01:16:05.819 to be a point where if you are using the services 01:16:05.819 --> 01:16:08.979 you need to pay that's what taxes are yeah i 01:16:08.979 --> 01:16:11.680 agree and i think the state should probably step 01:16:11.680 --> 01:16:16.140 in for some of that like uh i want to say chief 01:16:16.140 --> 01:16:18.279 hill house ran some numbers a couple years ago 01:16:18.279 --> 01:16:20.579 of how many calls we were actually running and 01:16:20.579 --> 01:16:23.279 they were we were trying to open up a door the 01:16:23.279 --> 01:16:28.520 city and and uf when it came to it um to show 01:16:28.520 --> 01:16:31.140 them exactly how many calls were running to not 01:16:31.140 --> 01:16:33.119 just the facilities but to their student housing 01:16:33.119 --> 01:16:37.439 to all these other things uh and i think that's 01:16:37.439 --> 01:16:38.760 where it stopped it stopped at the beginning 01:16:38.760 --> 01:16:40.979 of the conversation i don't think they wanted 01:16:40.979 --> 01:16:45.020 to hear it because They got the money. The University 01:16:45.020 --> 01:16:46.819 of Florida definitely has the money. They bring 01:16:46.819 --> 01:16:49.119 in hundreds of millions of dollars, you know, 01:16:49.119 --> 01:16:52.720 all the time, year round, football season alone. 01:16:52.880 --> 01:16:56.380 I don't even know what the economic impact that 01:16:56.380 --> 01:16:58.859 it brings to the city. But we're also in a construction 01:16:58.859 --> 01:17:01.920 boom. We have high rises going up left and right. 01:17:02.020 --> 01:17:06.640 Student or apartment complexes here and there. 01:17:06.720 --> 01:17:08.000 You know, we don't see those for a couple of 01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:09.819 years. We don't have those impact fees like that. 01:17:10.819 --> 01:17:14.119 But. Eventually, the tide's got to turn. The 01:17:14.119 --> 01:17:16.600 department really hasn't expanded like it needs 01:17:16.600 --> 01:17:19.300 to. We've encompassed some more property out 01:17:19.300 --> 01:17:23.260 west when it comes to annexation. That hasn't 01:17:23.260 --> 01:17:27.760 came into effect yet, but we're getting higher 01:17:27.760 --> 01:17:31.300 up. We're running a lot more. These apartment 01:17:31.300 --> 01:17:36.260 complexes, these mixed usage buildings and everything 01:17:36.260 --> 01:17:39.119 are becoming more of a threat when it comes to 01:17:39.119 --> 01:17:42.890 it. We're not expanding out like we need to. 01:17:42.930 --> 01:17:44.510 And eventually, it's going to come to a head 01:17:44.510 --> 01:17:46.689 that you're going to have to dump more money 01:17:46.689 --> 01:17:50.710 into it. One of the biggest myths I hear, again, 01:17:50.829 --> 01:17:52.970 when people push them back against the 24 -72 01:17:52.970 --> 01:17:55.710 is, oh, you're going to take a pay cut. And I 01:17:55.710 --> 01:17:57.569 always tell people, have you ever gone to training 01:17:57.569 --> 01:18:00.050 40 -hour workweek? Did they give you a pay cut 01:18:00.050 --> 01:18:02.350 during that? No, you just changed your hourly 01:18:02.350 --> 01:18:06.840 rate. So talk to me about... the shift as far 01:18:06.840 --> 01:18:09.359 as the efficiency now for every hour that you 01:18:09.359 --> 01:18:12.760 work, what you get paid. And then, as you mentioned, 01:18:12.880 --> 01:18:14.399 there were all these promotional opportunities 01:18:14.399 --> 01:18:16.340 that opened up with the creation of a fourth 01:18:16.340 --> 01:18:19.899 shift. How did that factor into, despite losing 01:18:19.899 --> 01:18:22.920 some of the overtime, actually reinvesting into 01:18:22.920 --> 01:18:25.619 just a higher per hour pay rate for everyone? 01:18:26.430 --> 01:18:29.970 Yeah, so that's all we changed. So their yearly 01:18:29.970 --> 01:18:33.010 did not go down whatsoever. We just changed the 01:18:33.010 --> 01:18:35.510 hourly rate to meet that, which in turn, as you 01:18:35.510 --> 01:18:39.029 work overtime, your overtime rate is now more. 01:18:39.090 --> 01:18:42.229 So it made up, and I think the hourly rate, it's 01:18:42.229 --> 01:18:45.850 close to what their old overtime rate was. So 01:18:45.850 --> 01:18:49.029 they're not losing any money there. One of the 01:18:49.029 --> 01:18:51.130 things we did do to kind of help soften the blow 01:18:51.130 --> 01:18:55.529 is because we're on that 42 -hour work week, 01:18:56.239 --> 01:18:58.159 The first 10 hours you work is straight pay. 01:18:59.119 --> 01:19:02.659 And that was a negotiation between the union 01:19:02.659 --> 01:19:07.020 and the city for FLSA stuff. But that also helps 01:19:07.020 --> 01:19:08.979 us on the back end when it comes to retirement 01:19:08.979 --> 01:19:10.880 because we're capped at a certain amount of hours. 01:19:11.659 --> 01:19:15.579 But that hourly rate just for those 10 hours. 01:19:16.359 --> 01:19:21.020 equal or close to your old overtime rate so these 01:19:21.020 --> 01:19:22.920 guys are are making more when they're working 01:19:22.920 --> 01:19:26.180 24 hours they're off more they're able to recover 01:19:26.180 --> 01:19:29.600 a little bit more on 48 uh and and they're not 01:19:29.600 --> 01:19:32.119 having to be mandated as much either they are 01:19:32.119 --> 01:19:34.680 picking and choosing ultimately when they're 01:19:34.680 --> 01:19:37.619 off other than here recently since the flu kind 01:19:37.619 --> 01:19:41.340 of seems like it took over Gainesville but it 01:19:41.340 --> 01:19:44.720 you know they they get a much better choice of 01:19:44.720 --> 01:19:48.319 when they want to work Yeah, the overtime, we 01:19:48.319 --> 01:19:52.500 just increased the hourly rate. Dixon was talking 01:19:52.500 --> 01:19:55.739 about. No, please carry on. I stepped over you. 01:19:56.100 --> 01:19:58.020 Well, I was going to say when it came to the 01:19:58.020 --> 01:20:01.560 promotional stuff, I wish I had that number on 01:20:01.560 --> 01:20:05.039 to me. But yeah, we've had six promotional processes 01:20:05.039 --> 01:20:08.039 and we just expelled our last lieutenant's list 01:20:08.039 --> 01:20:12.159 with the promotion of Matt. He went from a driver 01:20:12.159 --> 01:20:13.939 to the lieutenant. When you jump that range, 01:20:14.140 --> 01:20:16.460 you know, we don't just slot you wherever you 01:20:16.460 --> 01:20:21.619 are. You get a minimum of 5 % like when you move 01:20:21.619 --> 01:20:24.579 up into that range to that next step plan. So 01:20:24.579 --> 01:20:26.939 we also have a step plan that we implemented 01:20:26.939 --> 01:20:30.720 with 2472. So people are averaging, you know, 01:20:30.720 --> 01:20:33.079 maybe closer to 10 % when they move up and then 01:20:33.079 --> 01:20:36.779 they get the step of that new rank. So it's definitely 01:20:36.779 --> 01:20:42.220 worked out. You can make decent. living when 01:20:42.220 --> 01:20:45.579 you're working for us. I think I spoke to Dixon 01:20:45.579 --> 01:20:49.300 about this too. The next negotiation can obviously 01:20:49.300 --> 01:20:53.479 be addressing the FLSA overtime element as well, 01:20:53.539 --> 01:20:56.260 but it's also reframing the way we look at it. 01:20:56.460 --> 01:21:00.079 The goal is to work 42 hours and then go home 01:21:00.079 --> 01:21:02.779 to your family. Another thing that I don't get 01:21:02.779 --> 01:21:04.880 as much now, but I used to get when I first was 01:21:04.880 --> 01:21:08.319 talking about this nine, eight years ago. was, 01:21:08.380 --> 01:21:09.840 well, if we give them more time off, they'll 01:21:09.840 --> 01:21:12.600 just work more, which is a disgusting thing to 01:21:12.600 --> 01:21:16.220 talk about someone on their time off. But that 01:21:16.220 --> 01:21:17.880 being said, what they're thinking is, well, they're 01:21:17.880 --> 01:21:19.300 just going to work more overtime. Well, if you 01:21:19.300 --> 01:21:25.420 fixed the vacancy problem, now it's kind of forcing 01:21:25.420 --> 01:21:27.260 people to then go, well, what else do I love 01:21:27.260 --> 01:21:29.779 to do? If I want to make more money than my salary, 01:21:29.859 --> 01:21:33.579 and we'll get to what we need to be making in 01:21:33.579 --> 01:21:37.869 a minute, but it forges entrepreneurship. I love 01:21:37.869 --> 01:21:40.289 shaping surfboards. I'm a personal trainer. I'm 01:21:40.289 --> 01:21:43.909 in construction. So amazing. On your days off, 01:21:43.970 --> 01:21:45.649 if that's something that you want to do and you 01:21:45.649 --> 01:21:47.890 do it during the daytime hours and then you still 01:21:47.890 --> 01:21:49.770 go home to your family and you have dinner and 01:21:49.770 --> 01:21:52.109 you hang out and you sleep next to your spouse, 01:21:52.350 --> 01:21:55.270 there's nothing wrong with that at all. You've 01:21:55.270 --> 01:21:56.890 got a separate income. You've got a separate 01:21:56.890 --> 01:21:59.630 identity, a separate tribe. All those are super 01:21:59.630 --> 01:22:02.529 healthy. My only thing would be having a stipulation 01:22:02.529 --> 01:22:04.909 is that you can't work overnight on your days 01:22:04.909 --> 01:22:08.300 off. Work for another fire department, an overnight 01:22:08.300 --> 01:22:10.979 ER shift, a private ambulance company. That's 01:22:10.979 --> 01:22:13.739 our ownership now. We've created a healthy work 01:22:13.739 --> 01:22:16.279 week. Let us be diligent on our days off too. 01:22:16.479 --> 01:22:20.000 But having a second job, the responsible second 01:22:20.000 --> 01:22:21.739 job, I don't think there's anything wrong with 01:22:21.739 --> 01:22:24.319 that at all. So rather than looking at overtime 01:22:24.319 --> 01:22:27.119 as boosting your income, what else do you love 01:22:27.119 --> 01:22:30.000 to do? Go do that on that extra time that you've 01:22:30.000 --> 01:22:33.159 got. And it's none of your business. Yeah, exactly. 01:22:33.199 --> 01:22:37.489 You know what I mean? 42 hours work week, you 01:22:37.489 --> 01:22:40.130 should be able to have a livable wage on 42 hours. 01:22:40.329 --> 01:22:43.369 You don't need to know what they do on their 01:22:43.369 --> 01:22:45.310 days off. If they don't want to work, they don't 01:22:45.310 --> 01:22:47.630 have to work. I think when somebody says like, 01:22:47.689 --> 01:22:48.970 oh, they're just going to work more overtime 01:22:48.970 --> 01:22:51.010 or this and that, they're just throwing wet paper 01:22:51.010 --> 01:22:53.010 at a wall and hoping that it sticks. But you 01:22:53.010 --> 01:22:55.979 don't know an individual's... issues that they're 01:22:55.979 --> 01:22:58.460 going for you don't know if they have high medical 01:22:58.460 --> 01:23:01.119 bills or you don't know if they have a sick mother 01:23:01.119 --> 01:23:03.060 that they're trying to do things for like you 01:23:03.060 --> 01:23:05.960 just don't know and I think when when people 01:23:05.960 --> 01:23:09.920 say that I think they're just uh ignorant to 01:23:09.920 --> 01:23:13.579 me and I hate I hate to be like that but everybody's 01:23:13.579 --> 01:23:15.100 different everybody's got a different situation 01:23:15.100 --> 01:23:18.260 like you have no idea what an individual is going 01:23:18.260 --> 01:23:20.819 through and if they need that money and they're 01:23:20.819 --> 01:23:25.970 working two jobs like you know I mean, yeah, 01:23:26.090 --> 01:23:28.310 that kind of pisses me off when people say that 01:23:28.310 --> 01:23:33.310 because you just don't know. Like, somebody always 01:23:33.310 --> 01:23:35.909 has something going on. Who knows? It could be, 01:23:35.970 --> 01:23:38.409 I mean, it could be something silly. Like, my 01:23:38.409 --> 01:23:41.510 son turns 16 here in a year and a half. I got 01:23:41.510 --> 01:23:43.550 to get him a car. Like, I'm not going to get 01:23:43.550 --> 01:23:45.149 him anything nice, but I may need a little extra 01:23:45.149 --> 01:23:48.000 money here and there. you know god forbid people 01:23:48.000 --> 01:23:51.659 do have sick kids or the wife is at home like 01:23:51.659 --> 01:23:54.460 if my wife is off work she doesn't have vacation 01:23:54.460 --> 01:23:57.539 hours and stuff like that so or pto like when 01:23:57.539 --> 01:24:00.619 she's off she doesn't get paid that day so like 01:24:00.619 --> 01:24:03.399 somebody has to be made up somewhere so you you 01:24:03.399 --> 01:24:05.279 know they're just saying stuff without knowing 01:24:05.279 --> 01:24:07.739 people's personal situation but ultimately it's 01:24:07.739 --> 01:24:10.479 none of your business what they do um they can 01:24:10.479 --> 01:24:13.359 do whatever they want yeah in my opinion Yeah, 01:24:13.399 --> 01:24:16.979 exactly. And I think in your lane, 100%. And 01:24:16.979 --> 01:24:19.020 then it's just but it's also education, educating 01:24:19.020 --> 01:24:20.920 us on all right, what does sleep hygiene look 01:24:20.920 --> 01:24:22.859 like on your days off? You know, how are you 01:24:22.859 --> 01:24:25.479 resting and recovering to make sure that you 01:24:25.479 --> 01:24:27.779 are, you know, fully recharged for the next shift? 01:24:27.800 --> 01:24:29.979 I mean, we have we have a responsibility. But 01:24:29.979 --> 01:24:32.279 there's so many things you can do without disrupting 01:24:32.279 --> 01:24:35.039 your sleep on your days off. Yeah, I don't think 01:24:35.039 --> 01:24:36.600 somebody should go work at another department. 01:24:36.659 --> 01:24:38.699 You know, if you want 42 hours work in another 01:24:38.699 --> 01:24:42.159 department or go work in the ER as a paramedic 01:24:42.159 --> 01:24:43.939 throughout the middle of the night. I think that's 01:24:43.939 --> 01:24:46.060 probably a little bit much. We're trying to promote 01:24:46.060 --> 01:24:49.439 a healthier lifestyle and a work -life balance 01:24:49.439 --> 01:24:54.859 for you. Take advantage of it. Don't complain 01:24:54.859 --> 01:24:58.279 that you have 24 -48s, you're going to go 24 01:24:58.279 --> 01:25:02.060 -72s, but you're still going to work 72 -24s, 01:25:02.060 --> 01:25:04.100 and you're still complaining about being tired. 01:25:05.039 --> 01:25:07.359 You have the opportunities now. You don't have 01:25:07.359 --> 01:25:10.359 to do that. You can make a livable wage, work 01:25:10.359 --> 01:25:12.600 a little part -time if you want to, or shape 01:25:12.600 --> 01:25:16.840 surfboards or go sit on the beach for all I care. 01:25:16.960 --> 01:25:22.060 Drive Uber, do what you want. But yeah, it makes 01:25:22.060 --> 01:25:23.760 it a lot easier for you to have that work -life 01:25:23.760 --> 01:25:26.819 balance at that point. Absolutely. All right. 01:25:26.819 --> 01:25:29.380 Well, you mentioned about if you do it again, 01:25:29.439 --> 01:25:33.119 you might do the PASCO framework instead. What 01:25:33.119 --> 01:25:35.220 were some of the road bumps, some of the hurdles? 01:25:35.340 --> 01:25:37.300 Because you guys are all pioneers and I love 01:25:37.300 --> 01:25:41.579 the innovation and the problem solving that's 01:25:41.579 --> 01:25:43.899 happening now as these departments in their own 01:25:43.899 --> 01:25:46.779 unique paths are figuring out, well, what is 01:25:46.779 --> 01:25:49.520 our specific journey? So what were some of the 01:25:49.520 --> 01:25:55.079 hurdles and how did you navigate those? So Nick 01:25:55.079 --> 01:25:59.319 actually had to do a lot of that lifting when 01:25:59.319 --> 01:26:05.670 it came to the hurdles. Yeah, we would probably 01:26:05.670 --> 01:26:07.949 have chose the Pasco County if that was the route 01:26:07.949 --> 01:26:11.590 we were going to be able to go to, just to make 01:26:11.590 --> 01:26:13.850 that easier transition. It's a lot easier to 01:26:13.850 --> 01:26:17.930 talk about financial things, but we had to take 01:26:17.930 --> 01:26:20.909 probably some lumps. We didn't get raises this 01:26:20.909 --> 01:26:23.350 last contract that we would really like, but 01:26:23.350 --> 01:26:27.300 we were able to implement. a pay plan that that's 01:26:27.300 --> 01:26:30.000 based off of your merit on your evaluations and 01:26:30.000 --> 01:26:32.659 stuff like that but we got a low cost of living 01:26:32.659 --> 01:26:34.760 that's going around like we got three ones with 01:26:34.760 --> 01:26:39.539 the reopener like those things take hits um but 01:26:39.539 --> 01:26:42.630 that's kind of we knew that that That needed 01:26:42.630 --> 01:26:45.050 to happen for us to get across the finish line 01:26:45.050 --> 01:26:46.989 and then be able to address on the back end. 01:26:47.489 --> 01:26:49.869 So, yeah, I probably would have gone the Pasco 01:26:49.869 --> 01:26:52.149 route implemented over three years if we could 01:26:52.149 --> 01:26:55.649 get people in the door, get them trained. The 01:26:55.649 --> 01:26:58.250 big hurdle, I think me, I'm in the training department 01:26:58.250 --> 01:27:02.989 and we had to put on so many, so many of these 01:27:02.989 --> 01:27:08.130 promotional tests. Like it was a lot. It's a 01:27:08.130 --> 01:27:10.250 lot over a couple of years that. It would have 01:27:10.250 --> 01:27:11.970 been nicer that we could have took our time, 01:27:12.149 --> 01:27:14.590 put people on it properly, brought people in, 01:27:14.729 --> 01:27:19.210 paid the FTOs instead of it just like it's constant. 01:27:19.310 --> 01:27:21.390 This list is expired. Boom, we got to have another 01:27:21.390 --> 01:27:23.289 test. Now, boom, we got to have another test. 01:27:23.750 --> 01:27:26.229 I think that's a lot on the department financially 01:27:26.229 --> 01:27:28.949 on that end, too, instead of just a slow progression 01:27:28.949 --> 01:27:32.050 where everybody still gets the same result at 01:27:32.050 --> 01:27:35.470 the end. Beautiful. And then we touched on it 01:27:35.470 --> 01:27:37.930 before. Talk to me about morale. Matt, when I 01:27:37.930 --> 01:27:40.649 spoke to him. had said if they ever proposed 01:27:40.649 --> 01:27:43.569 going back to 24 48 the entire department would 01:27:43.569 --> 01:27:46.470 leave yeah i think they would everybody would 01:27:46.470 --> 01:27:48.550 just quit at this point you know like i said 01:27:48.550 --> 01:27:51.310 if you're not progressing you're regressing uh 01:27:51.310 --> 01:27:55.590 and and the guy the other night it's you can't 01:27:55.590 --> 01:27:57.850 go back when a guy looks at you and says he doesn't 01:27:57.850 --> 01:28:02.609 know how he did it 24 48 and when they say that 01:28:02.609 --> 01:28:04.850 they feel like they got their family back or 01:28:04.850 --> 01:28:09.739 their mental clarity's there like How do you 01:28:09.739 --> 01:28:13.720 argue with that, that things don't work? Morale 01:28:13.720 --> 01:28:16.600 can be whatever it is. 24 -72s is not a morale 01:28:16.600 --> 01:28:18.699 killer. Everybody wants to get paid more, right? 01:28:18.800 --> 01:28:21.319 Everybody wants better benefits. It's hard to 01:28:21.319 --> 01:28:25.119 compete. We do have a financial situation with 01:28:25.119 --> 01:28:26.859 the city of Gainesville, but it has nothing to 01:28:26.859 --> 01:28:29.760 do with the fire department whatsoever. It just 01:28:29.760 --> 01:28:34.619 takes a quick Google between the utility. GRU 01:28:34.619 --> 01:28:37.020 in the city of Gainesville like has nothing to 01:28:37.020 --> 01:28:39.560 do with us over here like we're we're doing perfectly 01:28:39.560 --> 01:28:44.800 fine but you know we do see the Boca's and the 01:28:44.800 --> 01:28:48.880 Browards and all these other places Jupiter just 01:28:48.880 --> 01:28:51.720 hired you know hiring ladder moves North Collier 01:28:51.720 --> 01:28:54.460 like these places that have these high dollar 01:28:54.460 --> 01:28:56.460 budgets you know they're paying their firemen 01:28:56.460 --> 01:28:58.840 a hundred thousand dollars like that sometimes 01:28:58.840 --> 01:29:04.310 that's tougher tougher just for people to swallow 01:29:04.310 --> 01:29:06.630 when they are younger in the lower 20s or they 01:29:06.630 --> 01:29:09.869 don't have families like once you have a family 01:29:09.869 --> 01:29:12.210 and you're here and you're vested here like it's 01:29:12.210 --> 01:29:17.770 tough to leave at that point um but i think with 01:29:17.770 --> 01:29:20.550 24 72s we haven't had that you know what i mean 01:29:20.550 --> 01:29:22.689 like we haven't had people just jump the ship 01:29:22.689 --> 01:29:25.369 you know even the single ones we haven't we haven't 01:29:25.369 --> 01:29:27.890 had that you know really jump the ship for even 01:29:27.890 --> 01:29:31.430 those higher places because the culture The culture 01:29:31.430 --> 01:29:33.250 here before I even got here, that's why everybody 01:29:33.250 --> 01:29:35.369 wanted to work here. And that hasn't changed. 01:29:35.609 --> 01:29:38.829 Like everybody still wants to work for GFR. We 01:29:38.829 --> 01:29:40.569 got great lieutenants. We got great district 01:29:40.569 --> 01:29:43.369 chiefs. We got great leadership. We got great 01:29:43.369 --> 01:29:46.710 union leadership, which we've always had. Like 01:29:46.710 --> 01:29:49.689 it's people want to come here for the right reasons. 01:29:49.729 --> 01:29:53.689 And, you know, pay used to be on the back burner. 01:29:53.770 --> 01:29:56.689 Now it's not, not so much, right? Like nobody 01:29:56.689 --> 01:29:59.239 joined the fire department for. for the money 01:29:59.239 --> 01:30:01.640 they enjoyed it for the job and what it what 01:30:01.640 --> 01:30:05.760 it creates and then as you get older you know 01:30:05.760 --> 01:30:09.859 people my age our age i'm not sure how old you 01:30:09.859 --> 01:30:12.220 are they don't look at just just that dollar 01:30:12.220 --> 01:30:14.079 on they look at how much health care is actually 01:30:14.079 --> 01:30:16.239 going to cost what the retirement looks like 01:30:16.239 --> 01:30:19.039 and i think all those factors go into it as well 01:30:19.039 --> 01:30:21.220 and that's where we need to improve is those 01:30:21.220 --> 01:30:23.600 other other little factors and i think we'll 01:30:23.600 --> 01:30:27.159 be sitting just right yeah I've said this when 01:30:27.159 --> 01:30:31.659 I got hired at Hialeah in 2004. I think they 01:30:31.659 --> 01:30:33.420 told us how much we were actually going to get 01:30:33.420 --> 01:30:37.100 paid about three or four weeks in. They didn't 01:30:37.100 --> 01:30:38.960 even advertise the pay rate. And it ended up 01:30:38.960 --> 01:30:40.840 being almost half what Miami -Dade was paying. 01:30:40.960 --> 01:30:44.140 But that's the level of competition. I went and 01:30:44.140 --> 01:30:46.039 worked for Marion. I had no idea what I was getting 01:30:46.039 --> 01:30:49.340 paid. until I got over there, and I think it 01:30:49.340 --> 01:30:51.319 was like $10 or something like that. When I was 01:30:51.319 --> 01:30:55.020 working with Waldo, I was making like $8. I was 01:30:55.020 --> 01:30:57.020 making more on the side jobs than I ever was 01:30:57.020 --> 01:31:00.619 in the firehouse, and now I don't have to have 01:31:00.619 --> 01:31:03.140 a second job. These guys don't have to have a 01:31:03.140 --> 01:31:05.800 second job. They get to kind of choose what they 01:31:05.800 --> 01:31:10.600 want at this point. Yeah. We mentioned before 01:31:10.600 --> 01:31:13.119 we hit record about other elements that are contributing 01:31:13.119 --> 01:31:16.180 to... the recruitment crisis, retention, et cetera. 01:31:16.340 --> 01:31:19.180 You know, this, the 24 -72, Hugh Brutus has all 01:31:19.180 --> 01:31:20.819 the time, you know, it's not the only thing. 01:31:20.880 --> 01:31:22.960 Now I would argue it's the biggest thing. It's 01:31:22.960 --> 01:31:26.739 the first thing absolutely to address, but what 01:31:26.739 --> 01:31:28.779 are some of the other elements, you know, we 01:31:28.779 --> 01:31:31.060 touched on leadership before we hit record. What 01:31:31.060 --> 01:31:32.720 are some of the things that you're seeing that 01:31:32.720 --> 01:31:34.680 we really need to pull out into the spotlight 01:31:34.680 --> 01:31:38.119 as well so that we can create this culture, you 01:31:38.119 --> 01:31:39.920 know, and kind of be talking about bouncing, 01:31:39.979 --> 01:31:42.279 like going back to where you just joined a department 01:31:42.279 --> 01:31:52.739 and you stayed for your full career. I think 01:31:52.739 --> 01:31:54.600 it has to do with the leadership of the department. 01:31:54.920 --> 01:31:58.560 Like if the guys don't feel backed, then, then, 01:31:58.699 --> 01:32:00.960 then they're easily going to be able to leave. 01:32:02.220 --> 01:32:05.140 And then the support from the commission, you 01:32:05.140 --> 01:32:07.880 know, nobody wants to see that, you know, if 01:32:07.880 --> 01:32:10.000 the fire department saves a couple million dollars 01:32:10.000 --> 01:32:15.140 from, from 24 72s, are they just going to take. 01:32:15.789 --> 01:32:17.930 take that just we'll just throw a number out 01:32:17.930 --> 01:32:20.010 there two million dollars or that's going to 01:32:20.010 --> 01:32:22.170 be saved are they going to reinvestment into 01:32:22.170 --> 01:32:23.670 the apartment or are they just going to take 01:32:23.670 --> 01:32:25.930 it somewhere else and put it into another project 01:32:25.930 --> 01:32:30.010 that doesn't really elevate you know the city 01:32:30.010 --> 01:32:32.189 ultimately it's just something that they wanted 01:32:32.189 --> 01:32:36.069 to do and i think that that may take a hit like 01:32:36.069 --> 01:32:39.310 if you're doing these things to benefit you need 01:32:39.310 --> 01:32:42.159 to continually uh, reinvest into the department, 01:32:42.359 --> 01:32:45.279 not just strip it. Uh, if you save them a hundred 01:32:45.279 --> 01:32:46.699 dollars, you're just going to take that a hundred 01:32:46.699 --> 01:32:49.140 dollars. Like something else can go into it. 01:32:49.180 --> 01:32:50.920 Like there's always something to rebuild. Like 01:32:50.920 --> 01:32:53.199 we need, you know, we do need help with facilities. 01:32:53.220 --> 01:32:54.800 You know, Marion County is blessed. They got, 01:32:54.859 --> 01:32:57.380 they're putting up, they're putting up, I think 01:32:57.380 --> 01:32:59.680 11 I seen is being built right now. Like station 01:32:59.680 --> 01:33:02.279 11, like same thing with Alachua County. Like 01:33:02.279 --> 01:33:04.880 we have some infrastructure needs that we need 01:33:04.880 --> 01:33:08.880 with our stations that when we save you money. 01:33:09.390 --> 01:33:11.949 You know, this will pay off. I think within the 01:33:11.949 --> 01:33:13.149 next year, it's going to show that it's going 01:33:13.149 --> 01:33:15.850 to save that money. Like, hey, take that money 01:33:15.850 --> 01:33:17.850 that we've saved and actually put it into the 01:33:17.850 --> 01:33:20.229 other areas. Don't just strip it away from us. 01:33:21.470 --> 01:33:23.510 Well, I think what's exciting is exactly that. 01:33:23.609 --> 01:33:26.590 You know, you just on the recruitment and retention 01:33:26.590 --> 01:33:29.050 alone, not mentioning workman's comp and, you 01:33:29.050 --> 01:33:31.689 know, medical disability and, you know, lawsuits 01:33:31.689 --> 01:33:34.729 from tired firefighters, for example. the millions 01:33:34.729 --> 01:33:36.890 that will be saved, like it's just basic math. 01:33:37.010 --> 01:33:39.109 You know, if you fill these vacancies, then you're 01:33:39.109 --> 01:33:41.409 paying straight time. You know, people are staying, 01:33:41.430 --> 01:33:44.250 not leaving. You're saving a lot of money. There's 01:33:44.250 --> 01:33:46.449 an amazing opportunity then, just like you said, 01:33:46.489 --> 01:33:49.189 to reinvest into other programs that will make 01:33:49.189 --> 01:33:51.890 us even healthier and happier. So I'm a big, 01:33:51.890 --> 01:33:54.909 big fan of punitive fitness standards. And I'm 01:33:54.909 --> 01:33:56.770 not talking about, hey, tomorrow we got a standard. 01:33:56.869 --> 01:33:59.210 And if you don't pass, then you're not a firefighter 01:33:59.210 --> 01:34:00.670 anymore. Obviously, you'd have to have an on 01:34:00.670 --> 01:34:03.810 -ramp. But, you know, there's no... no misunderstanding 01:34:03.810 --> 01:34:06.710 at the fire academy of the needs of your strength 01:34:06.710 --> 01:34:08.609 and conditioning and your fitness level and your 01:34:08.609 --> 01:34:11.609 body composition i mean it's pretty pretty you 01:34:11.609 --> 01:34:14.369 know obvious and if that is maintained through 01:34:14.369 --> 01:34:16.949 a career your chances of cancer and heart disease 01:34:16.949 --> 01:34:19.630 and strokes and even mental health issues you 01:34:19.630 --> 01:34:23.119 know are much much lower So investing in, you 01:34:23.119 --> 01:34:24.819 know, we've given the work week now that actually 01:34:24.819 --> 01:34:27.020 allows performance to thrive, you know, and you 01:34:27.020 --> 01:34:29.439 invest in the gyms. I know you're station one. 01:34:29.500 --> 01:34:31.739 You've got that that gym upstairs, that kind 01:34:31.739 --> 01:34:34.579 of thing. Investing in full body MRIs, you know, 01:34:34.579 --> 01:34:36.239 every year, every couple of years, you know, 01:34:36.260 --> 01:34:40.039 good blood work, you know, zero barrier to entry 01:34:40.039 --> 01:34:43.140 for mental health tools. I mean. Every one of 01:34:43.140 --> 01:34:45.319 these layers that you use and reinvest, like 01:34:45.319 --> 01:34:47.460 you said, reinvest this money that's being saved. 01:34:47.539 --> 01:34:50.460 You're making a healthier, happier fire department. 01:34:50.520 --> 01:34:52.420 And therefore, you know, your level of service 01:34:52.420 --> 01:34:56.380 is going up and up and up as well. Yeah, I think 01:34:56.380 --> 01:34:58.439 we've done really good with the culture here. 01:34:59.220 --> 01:35:02.039 You know, our old fire chief came in and he was 01:35:02.039 --> 01:35:04.260 kind of surprised how fit our department is. 01:35:04.420 --> 01:35:08.699 And I think that that was led by our FTO cadre. 01:35:09.480 --> 01:35:14.000 with Jose and Colby and Rutledge and Bubba Ennis 01:35:14.000 --> 01:35:17.699 and, and the Campbells, like them coming in and 01:35:17.699 --> 01:35:20.619 they lead our recruitment class right off the 01:35:20.619 --> 01:35:23.859 bat when it comes to, you know, fitness and everything. 01:35:23.920 --> 01:35:26.340 And that, that kind of sprawls out throughout 01:35:26.340 --> 01:35:27.779 the rest of the department when you got those 01:35:27.779 --> 01:35:30.119 guys coming in and being able to lead that charge 01:35:30.119 --> 01:35:32.319 and show the importance of it. And then on the 01:35:32.319 --> 01:35:34.880 back end, you know, we used to do our own in 01:35:34.880 --> 01:35:37.340 -house stuff with EHS when it came to our annual 01:35:37.340 --> 01:35:41.420 physicals. But now we do life scan like we do 01:35:41.420 --> 01:35:43.760 life scan every other year and the department 01:35:43.760 --> 01:35:48.260 and the city stuff on the opposite year. So these 01:35:48.260 --> 01:35:50.560 guys are constantly. getting checked getting 01:35:50.560 --> 01:35:53.420 worked up having their scans done and i think 01:35:53.420 --> 01:35:55.859 that goes a long way and then every station also 01:35:55.859 --> 01:35:59.140 has their own gym um we have in our union contract 01:35:59.140 --> 01:36:02.420 uh i want to say it's a little over i won't put 01:36:02.420 --> 01:36:04.359 a quote on it but it's a little over 15 grand 01:36:04.359 --> 01:36:06.119 like if you have equipment or something like 01:36:06.119 --> 01:36:09.960 that that the department can use to replace to 01:36:09.960 --> 01:36:13.239 get you more weights get you bands kind of get 01:36:13.239 --> 01:36:14.960 you whatever you want that's going to help elevate 01:36:15.710 --> 01:36:17.930 and keep you motivated inside the station. So 01:36:17.930 --> 01:36:20.510 health has kind of been the whole thing all the 01:36:20.510 --> 01:36:23.510 way around. Yeah, I think just the other thing 01:36:23.510 --> 01:36:26.449 with the savings is now you go back to the negotiation 01:36:26.449 --> 01:36:29.010 table and you're pursuing, you know, getting 01:36:29.010 --> 01:36:32.449 rid of FLSA or a pay raise. You know, now you 01:36:32.449 --> 01:36:34.149 can say, well, look, we saved you X amount of 01:36:34.149 --> 01:36:36.470 million dollars. We're basically creating our 01:36:36.470 --> 01:36:41.239 own pay raise now. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think 01:36:41.239 --> 01:36:43.399 that's what it should be. Instead of taking it 01:36:43.399 --> 01:36:45.079 and putting it somewhere else, reinvest it into 01:36:45.079 --> 01:36:47.300 the people that you have here. Absolutely. Because 01:36:47.300 --> 01:36:49.500 I've said this even nationally. It's not that 01:36:49.500 --> 01:36:52.300 we need more tax money. It's not that we need 01:36:52.300 --> 01:36:54.560 the Marion County or City of Gainesville residents 01:36:54.560 --> 01:36:57.220 to pay more taxes. It's being efficient with 01:36:57.220 --> 01:36:59.579 that money in the first place. And nationally, 01:36:59.859 --> 01:37:04.100 we have 75 % of our nation is obese or overweight. 01:37:05.220 --> 01:37:10.899 And we spend 20 % of our GDP on healthcare. So 01:37:10.899 --> 01:37:14.260 to improve our schools, to support first responders, 01:37:14.500 --> 01:37:17.500 all these different areas, if we just made our 01:37:17.500 --> 01:37:20.779 nation healthier, you are now proactively reinvesting 01:37:20.779 --> 01:37:23.079 that money where it needs to be. So it's not 01:37:23.079 --> 01:37:25.479 about more, more, more. It's not greedy firefighters 01:37:25.479 --> 01:37:28.359 wanting more taxpayers' money. If you can show 01:37:28.359 --> 01:37:30.439 where the money is being wasted and you just 01:37:30.439 --> 01:37:34.079 proactively make it efficient, then you're using 01:37:34.079 --> 01:37:36.420 the same exact... you know amount of money to 01:37:36.420 --> 01:37:39.560 forge a healthier and more fiscally responsible 01:37:39.560 --> 01:37:46.439 fire department yeah uh yeah i hate when they 01:37:46.439 --> 01:37:48.979 say you know you know putting more money in the 01:37:48.979 --> 01:37:50.520 department or elevating you know we're doing 01:37:50.520 --> 01:37:52.739 this and that for the department but i think 01:37:52.739 --> 01:37:55.659 overall It's a lot easier for the politicians 01:37:55.659 --> 01:37:57.460 and stuff like that to be able to spend your 01:37:57.460 --> 01:37:59.560 money instead of their own money. It's a lot 01:37:59.560 --> 01:38:01.680 easier when the bank, when the check's being 01:38:01.680 --> 01:38:03.420 written from somebody else's account than your 01:38:03.420 --> 01:38:07.979 own account. Well, I want to go to some closing 01:38:07.979 --> 01:38:10.479 questions, but before we do, are there any other 01:38:10.479 --> 01:38:14.159 areas, any other successes that you've seen from 01:38:14.159 --> 01:38:16.079 this transition that you want to talk about before 01:38:16.079 --> 01:38:21.100 we move on? I think we've pretty much well covered 01:38:21.100 --> 01:38:25.960 it. Brilliant. Nothing's really coming glaring 01:38:25.960 --> 01:38:28.520 right now unless you have something off the top 01:38:28.520 --> 01:38:30.520 of your head. No, I mean, if we're talking about 01:38:30.520 --> 01:38:33.260 saving money, saving relationships, saving lives, 01:38:33.380 --> 01:38:36.399 I think we've pretty much presented the case 01:38:36.399 --> 01:38:39.939 for the 24 -72 today. So, all right. Well, the 01:38:39.939 --> 01:38:42.520 first of the closing questions, is there a book 01:38:42.520 --> 01:38:44.619 or are there books that you love to recommend? 01:38:44.859 --> 01:38:47.199 It can be related to our discussion today or 01:38:47.199 --> 01:38:51.810 completely unrelated. completely underrated or, 01:38:51.810 --> 01:39:00.050 uh, unrelated. Uh, well, so wow. Um, yeah, I've 01:39:00.050 --> 01:39:01.609 read a couple of them. I've read a couple of 01:39:01.609 --> 01:39:03.489 the David Goggin books. I really go when it comes 01:39:03.489 --> 01:39:06.550 to motivating. Um, but some big ones I'm into 01:39:06.550 --> 01:39:09.750 right now is, is I like to talk to the younger 01:39:09.750 --> 01:39:12.689 guys about budgeting, like when it comes to comes 01:39:12.689 --> 01:39:15.489 to things. And I think it's because when I was 01:39:15.489 --> 01:39:17.789 in my lower twenties and stuff like that, didn't 01:39:17.789 --> 01:39:20.770 have kids in that, it was just, Paycheck to paycheck, 01:39:20.949 --> 01:39:24.890 baby. Let's go out, have fun, blow it on anything 01:39:24.890 --> 01:39:28.390 that we want one night. I think that is something 01:39:28.390 --> 01:39:31.710 that I try to tell these guys when they come 01:39:31.710 --> 01:39:34.409 in the door, talk about retirement, talk about 01:39:34.409 --> 01:39:38.210 putting stuff away in Roth and 457, getting them 01:39:38.210 --> 01:39:40.789 in with the ICMA guy to kind of talk about that, 01:39:40.909 --> 01:39:43.270 not going out to buy the new boat or the new 01:39:43.270 --> 01:39:46.350 truck within the first year. So I think a lot 01:39:46.350 --> 01:39:51.029 of the Dave Ramsey books, total money makeover 01:39:51.029 --> 01:39:53.069 and stuff like that. I think that goes a long 01:39:53.069 --> 01:39:57.670 way for individuals. To me, I think that that 01:39:57.670 --> 01:40:00.350 is a big one for the younger generation is kind 01:40:00.350 --> 01:40:02.069 of understand that don't make the same mistakes. 01:40:02.350 --> 01:40:06.710 You know, I have and you know, when when I was 01:40:06.710 --> 01:40:09.869 younger, I just realized there was one grenade 01:40:09.869 --> 01:40:11.710 I forgot to throw. So let me just squeeze that 01:40:11.710 --> 01:40:14.949 in quickly. I've said this a few times, I paid 01:40:14.949 --> 01:40:20.239 my union Jews my entire career. Yeah. What disappoints 01:40:20.239 --> 01:40:22.720 me is that our current, you know, with the previous 01:40:22.720 --> 01:40:24.340 leadership, obviously we learned about a lot 01:40:24.340 --> 01:40:27.279 of corruption. The current leadership are out 01:40:27.279 --> 01:40:31.460 of the city of Boston who work 24 -72. I have 01:40:31.460 --> 01:40:34.460 not heard any conversation about making that 01:40:34.460 --> 01:40:39.619 a national standard from the IAFF stance. Why, 01:40:39.720 --> 01:40:41.859 if you even want to present any kind of thoughts 01:40:41.859 --> 01:40:44.880 there and being proactive, you know, what... 01:40:45.770 --> 01:40:48.890 How can we how can we force that where not even 01:40:48.890 --> 01:40:51.250 force is the wrong word? How can we encourage 01:40:51.250 --> 01:40:54.250 that to be a professional standard? Because, 01:40:54.329 --> 01:40:56.149 I mean, you know, law enforcement has their own 01:40:56.149 --> 01:40:58.890 of, you know, 40 or 42 hours, you know, nursing. 01:40:58.930 --> 01:41:00.770 I mean, all these other ones have it already. 01:41:00.909 --> 01:41:04.090 But we have this mish from a 24 -72 all the way 01:41:04.090 --> 01:41:06.250 to our federal firefighters of, you know, 24 01:41:06.250 --> 01:41:10.810 -24. Knowing it works in their own city, knowing 01:41:10.810 --> 01:41:14.789 now that there's this ground grassroots. uh movement 01:41:14.789 --> 01:41:18.289 here in florida i would love to see the support 01:41:18.289 --> 01:41:20.670 that iff so we can make this a national conversation 01:41:20.670 --> 01:41:25.289 what is your stance on that well i think i think 01:41:25.289 --> 01:41:28.869 eventually ed kelly and frank lima who who is 01:41:28.869 --> 01:41:30.949 the president and the general secretary i think 01:41:30.949 --> 01:41:35.210 that eventually will happen um i don't know why 01:41:35.210 --> 01:41:37.250 it's not being pushed i don't know if they just 01:41:37.250 --> 01:41:39.149 have some other big ticketed items that they're 01:41:39.149 --> 01:41:40.890 trying to go after first you know they were going 01:41:40.890 --> 01:41:44.380 through the uh the social security issue and 01:41:44.380 --> 01:41:46.319 stuff like that. They got past the nationally 01:41:46.319 --> 01:41:49.279 cancer bill and everything, but I will, I can 01:41:49.279 --> 01:41:52.560 tell you from experience, I went to Boston, uh, 01:41:52.939 --> 01:41:57.520 20, was it last year, 2024. I went up to Boston 01:41:57.520 --> 01:41:59.979 for the international convention and Walt Dix, 01:41:59.979 --> 01:42:03.779 who's the IFS, uh, district 12th, uh, vice president. 01:42:04.279 --> 01:42:08.439 We, we were at. a gathering and I spent the entire 01:42:08.439 --> 01:42:11.520 day from people from Indiana, Nevada, Nebraska, 01:42:11.939 --> 01:42:15.060 Tennessee. Like he had me just talking to every 01:42:15.060 --> 01:42:18.560 individual on how we implemented 24 72s and the 01:42:18.560 --> 01:42:20.699 avenues that we took to guide there. So the talks 01:42:20.699 --> 01:42:23.779 are happening. Uh, I probably talked to a couple 01:42:23.779 --> 01:42:25.859 hundred people like when it came to it. So I 01:42:25.859 --> 01:42:28.359 think overall it's spreading throughout the country. 01:42:28.500 --> 01:42:32.890 Uh, I didn't realize how. We weren't the first 01:42:32.890 --> 01:42:35.970 ones. Like I said, we said Boca had 2472s, but 01:42:35.970 --> 01:42:40.630 it really didn't take off the conversations until 01:42:40.630 --> 01:42:43.310 we ended up doing it here in Gainesville. Because 01:42:43.310 --> 01:42:46.289 I talked to the Plano chief had reached out to 01:42:46.289 --> 01:42:50.109 us. I've talked to guys in Kentucky and New York 01:42:50.109 --> 01:42:53.729 and Chicago areas, like all over the country 01:42:53.729 --> 01:42:56.289 about this. And I didn't think this tiny, small 01:42:56.289 --> 01:43:01.060 department that apparently. Punches above its 01:43:01.060 --> 01:43:05.979 weight class with 180 operations guys that the 01:43:05.979 --> 01:43:07.800 impact we were able to have across the country. 01:43:07.899 --> 01:43:10.619 So I think it is going to happen. I don't know 01:43:10.619 --> 01:43:13.760 what it would take to get Enzo to actually go 01:43:13.760 --> 01:43:16.239 around it. I guess I can ask him here in August 01:43:16.239 --> 01:43:18.619 in Dallas for the next convention on when they're 01:43:18.619 --> 01:43:20.680 going to push it. Yeah. Because I mean, to me, 01:43:20.680 --> 01:43:24.399 you just need to say it publicly. You know, every 01:43:24.399 --> 01:43:27.079 municipality has still got to work out how on 01:43:27.079 --> 01:43:29.279 their own, but to say that this needs to be the 01:43:29.279 --> 01:43:31.659 future of the fire service would be immense. 01:43:31.960 --> 01:43:34.239 You know, this is the only real network outside 01:43:34.239 --> 01:43:37.279 of, as I mentioned, the Chiefs Association, of 01:43:37.279 --> 01:43:39.640 which, you know, let me be very clear, Ohio has 01:43:39.640 --> 01:43:41.859 reached out. They've got a podcast I'm going 01:43:41.859 --> 01:43:43.920 to go on. Their Chief Association is talking 01:43:43.920 --> 01:43:46.880 about this, you know, on their statewide level. 01:43:47.260 --> 01:43:49.279 But I think to have this national conversation 01:43:49.279 --> 01:43:51.479 with the IFF is just behind it. You know, you 01:43:51.479 --> 01:43:53.529 don't have to. figure out the funds for every 01:43:53.529 --> 01:43:55.649 department yet but just to say this needs to 01:43:55.649 --> 01:43:57.630 happen and we enjoy it in our department and 01:43:57.630 --> 01:44:01.850 you know i had the dc one of the the um the chiefs 01:44:01.850 --> 01:44:04.050 from dc on there i mean they don't have a recruitment 01:44:04.050 --> 01:44:07.529 crisis there 24 72 you know understanding how 01:44:07.529 --> 01:44:09.489 many people in northeast have enjoyed this for 01:44:09.489 --> 01:44:11.949 a long time and how it is you know benefiting 01:44:11.949 --> 01:44:15.220 them that would be a powerful thing. And then 01:44:15.220 --> 01:44:16.579 we're talking about cancer and we're talking 01:44:16.579 --> 01:44:18.460 about mental health. Well, this is behind all 01:44:18.460 --> 01:44:20.560 of those as well. It's a big, big part of the 01:44:20.560 --> 01:44:23.699 puzzle. So I hope that, you know, one day we'll 01:44:23.699 --> 01:44:25.399 see him stand up on the podium and just simply 01:44:25.399 --> 01:44:27.500 say, yeah, this needs to be the future of the 01:44:27.500 --> 01:44:29.500 fire service, a standardized work week across 01:44:29.500 --> 01:44:32.039 the board. Because people will be, oh, but some 01:44:32.039 --> 01:44:33.539 stations, they don't work. It doesn't matter. 01:44:33.840 --> 01:44:37.500 You are still away from your family for 24 hours 01:44:37.500 --> 01:44:39.420 at a time. You're still getting disrupted sleep. 01:44:40.010 --> 01:44:42.090 Because, you know, you might get woken up, you're 01:44:42.090 --> 01:44:45.109 not sleeping deeply. And so it's not about, you 01:44:45.109 --> 01:44:48.189 know, are you running calls 24 hours without, 01:44:48.229 --> 01:44:51.010 you know, seeing your bed. It's about being there 01:44:51.010 --> 01:44:53.369 when your community has that disaster and how 01:44:53.369 --> 01:44:55.409 many school shootings happen in the middle of 01:44:55.409 --> 01:44:57.850 nowhere, how many train derailments happen, you 01:44:57.850 --> 01:45:01.399 know, you don't, you're not justified. We don't 01:45:01.399 --> 01:45:03.359 have to justify our job by constantly running 01:45:03.359 --> 01:45:05.899 calls. It's about being prepared physically and 01:45:05.899 --> 01:45:08.859 mentally, being prepared operationally. So God 01:45:08.859 --> 01:45:11.739 forbid your family has their worst day, you've 01:45:11.739 --> 01:45:14.140 got a group of men and women that are ready to 01:45:14.140 --> 01:45:16.979 respond. So it should be a national conversation. 01:45:17.199 --> 01:45:19.100 Every other industry has a national work week, 01:45:19.100 --> 01:45:22.140 and I'm pretty sure that's the fundamental reason 01:45:22.140 --> 01:45:24.920 that we have unions is pay and working conditions. 01:45:25.000 --> 01:45:29.039 So I hope we see it soon. Yeah, we don't get 01:45:29.039 --> 01:45:34.340 paid. We get paid for what we've done, what we 01:45:34.340 --> 01:45:36.340 do, and what we're probably going to have to 01:45:36.340 --> 01:45:40.239 do. And I think that probably should be spoken 01:45:40.239 --> 01:45:43.640 a little bit louder than just, like, these guys 01:45:43.640 --> 01:45:46.479 have a kitchen and beds at the station. We're 01:45:46.479 --> 01:45:49.600 here for the drop of the hat. Like, when it goes 01:45:49.600 --> 01:45:52.100 off, you've got 60 seconds. You've got 60 seconds 01:45:52.100 --> 01:45:54.720 to, you know, wheels are in motion on whatever 01:45:54.720 --> 01:45:58.619 that call is. Yeah, exactly. All right. Well, 01:45:58.680 --> 01:46:00.699 the closing questions again. What about... a 01:46:00.699 --> 01:46:03.739 film documentary or television shows that you 01:46:03.739 --> 01:46:07.359 like oh boy uh i wish you would have prepared 01:46:07.359 --> 01:46:16.979 me for these yeah uh films films i like i like 01:46:16.979 --> 01:46:19.140 a lot of well i like comedies some of the older 01:46:19.140 --> 01:46:26.220 films you know i like you know man america american 01:46:26.220 --> 01:46:33.090 gangster um Scarface, some of the older classic 01:46:33.090 --> 01:46:36.529 movies I really enjoy. A lot of the more comedies 01:46:36.529 --> 01:46:39.470 I enjoy, especially me and my wife. I don't do 01:46:39.470 --> 01:46:42.489 scary movies anymore. It's just not my jam. But 01:46:42.489 --> 01:46:46.470 any of those, I'm not afraid to admit, some of 01:46:46.470 --> 01:46:48.430 them rom -com things with my wife, I get a good 01:46:48.430 --> 01:46:52.149 laugh out of. Documentaries, I probably can't 01:46:52.149 --> 01:46:54.739 give you. I'm at the ball field a little too 01:46:54.739 --> 01:46:57.399 much. So between both of my kids, I mean, I'm 01:46:57.399 --> 01:46:59.960 at a softball field or a baseball field most 01:46:59.960 --> 01:47:02.760 of the time. So I don't get to sit down and watch 01:47:02.760 --> 01:47:04.600 a whole lot of series. I'm still trying to get 01:47:04.600 --> 01:47:07.140 through a land man right now. And I'm on like 01:47:07.140 --> 01:47:08.899 season two. I don't even, I think there's a couple 01:47:08.899 --> 01:47:12.319 of seasons after that. So the guys inside of 01:47:12.319 --> 01:47:16.579 training don't even talk about it. Scary movies. 01:47:16.680 --> 01:47:19.520 Do you dislike them because of. What you don't 01:47:19.520 --> 01:47:22.239 do as a career. Cause I know I had, I was into 01:47:22.239 --> 01:47:25.680 it when I was a teenager and then being in the 01:47:25.680 --> 01:47:28.159 fire service and obviously seeing all, you know, 01:47:28.159 --> 01:47:31.460 the real pain and horror in the world. I kind 01:47:31.460 --> 01:47:33.800 of had a moment one day where I was like, so 01:47:33.800 --> 01:47:37.260 people sit down after a busy day and want to 01:47:37.260 --> 01:47:40.119 decompress by watching a cabin full of teenagers 01:47:40.119 --> 01:47:43.380 get tortured and mutilated. And so I like scary 01:47:43.380 --> 01:47:45.180 movies like the grudge and all that stuff, but 01:47:45.180 --> 01:47:47.420 there's a certain level of war that I just don't. 01:47:47.609 --> 01:47:51.710 see as entertainment anymore yeah i don't i don't 01:47:51.710 --> 01:47:54.510 know if it's necessarily the fire service that 01:47:54.510 --> 01:47:58.590 cause i never actually tried to link that to 01:47:58.590 --> 01:48:00.189 be honest with you it's just it just kind of 01:48:00.189 --> 01:48:02.189 happened one day it just wasn't my jam anymore 01:48:02.189 --> 01:48:03.529 it's like you know what i kind of don't want 01:48:03.529 --> 01:48:05.689 to watch that i want to watch you know something 01:48:05.689 --> 01:48:08.729 that's going to you know make me laugh or or 01:48:08.729 --> 01:48:10.609 uh you know something that's kind of a little 01:48:10.609 --> 01:48:14.149 bit more uncontrollable for me is i don't like 01:48:14.149 --> 01:48:17.720 those my son does like those what are those uh 01:48:17.720 --> 01:48:20.479 when they just pop up like the shock factor type 01:48:20.479 --> 01:48:22.539 stuff that's that's not my jam all the marvel 01:48:22.539 --> 01:48:25.520 movies i'll watch i love marvel i've watched 01:48:25.520 --> 01:48:28.100 all those like those are the types of things 01:48:28.100 --> 01:48:30.020 i kind of enjoy when it comes to movies that 01:48:30.020 --> 01:48:32.600 and gang old gangster movies i enjoy all those 01:48:32.600 --> 01:48:37.079 so brilliant yeah no scary movies not my thing 01:48:38.029 --> 01:48:39.970 Well, next question. Is there a person you'd 01:48:39.970 --> 01:48:42.270 recommend to come on this podcast as a guest 01:48:42.270 --> 01:48:44.909 to speak to the first responders, military and 01:48:44.909 --> 01:48:52.170 associated professions of the world? Just about 01:48:52.170 --> 01:48:58.369 kind of anything. Yeah, there's probably a handful 01:48:58.369 --> 01:49:02.470 of people that I would say you should talk to. 01:49:03.930 --> 01:49:05.949 Just to kind of about anything, Scott Chappell 01:49:05.949 --> 01:49:07.770 is one of them. He's a guy that's wealth of knowledge, 01:49:07.829 --> 01:49:11.149 used to work in Marion County. I think he's retired 01:49:11.149 --> 01:49:15.109 now. Don Campbell, he's one of our district chiefs, 01:49:15.109 --> 01:49:19.050 another wealth of knowledge on task force aid. 01:49:19.149 --> 01:49:21.430 He's in training. His brother, Sean Campbell, 01:49:21.569 --> 01:49:25.310 another guy that's just, I mean, some of the 01:49:25.310 --> 01:49:30.750 smartest dudes I've got to know and just infatuated 01:49:30.750 --> 01:49:33.029 with everything in the fire service and can. 01:49:33.680 --> 01:49:37.439 come off the top of the head on anything. So 01:49:37.439 --> 01:49:39.319 that would be some of the guys I recommend. You've 01:49:39.319 --> 01:49:40.960 already talked to Sean Hillhouse, who's another 01:49:40.960 --> 01:49:45.000 good one. I've talked about Nick, who kind of 01:49:45.000 --> 01:49:52.680 fathered in the 24 -72s. I don't know, since 01:49:52.680 --> 01:49:55.800 you brought up, you know, Frank and Ed Kelly, 01:49:55.920 --> 01:50:00.820 I'd probably bring in Bernie from the FPF. Bernoska, 01:50:00.820 --> 01:50:05.359 Wayne Bernoska. He's the FPF president. And maybe 01:50:05.359 --> 01:50:07.699 ask him if he's going to push forward on the 01:50:07.699 --> 01:50:10.300 42 -hour work week to see if they'll remove that 01:50:10.300 --> 01:50:15.500 recommended to put it in play. Yeah, it's a good 01:50:15.500 --> 01:50:17.819 idea. Yeah, thank you for all of those. Yeah, 01:50:17.859 --> 01:50:21.640 I've had Don on, I had Scott, but Sean actually 01:50:21.640 --> 01:50:24.819 taught me in several of the special ops classes 01:50:24.819 --> 01:50:27.039 at the college. So he'd be another good person 01:50:27.039 --> 01:50:30.579 to get on. Yeah, he's good. Yeah, and then Nick 01:50:30.579 --> 01:50:32.159 as well, like you said, detailing the journey 01:50:32.159 --> 01:50:36.300 and his role now. I tried to get him in today, 01:50:36.380 --> 01:50:39.560 but he's on duty. Yeah, no worries, no worries. 01:50:39.600 --> 01:50:41.060 I'm glad that we did it today, so thank you. 01:50:41.880 --> 01:50:43.720 Last question before we make sure everyone knows 01:50:43.720 --> 01:50:46.420 where to find you. What do you do to decompress? 01:50:48.520 --> 01:50:51.000 What do I do to decompress? I watch my kids at 01:50:51.000 --> 01:50:56.619 the ball field. Like I was saying, I currently 01:50:56.619 --> 01:50:59.659 coach the middle school, but I enjoy sitting 01:50:59.659 --> 01:51:01.479 on the other side of the fence and just kind 01:51:01.479 --> 01:51:05.399 of watching them. And now, you know, I'm still 01:51:05.399 --> 01:51:09.300 young. I'm 38, but my son turns 15 at the end 01:51:09.300 --> 01:51:11.140 of the year. My daughter's about to turn 11, 01:51:11.220 --> 01:51:12.979 and I'm starting to realize it's moving a lot 01:51:12.979 --> 01:51:17.060 faster than I wanted it to, especially at their 01:51:17.060 --> 01:51:22.170 current ages. So I think decompressing. I mean, 01:51:22.210 --> 01:51:23.949 the ball field has to – I don't even know if 01:51:23.949 --> 01:51:25.489 that's decompressing. I'm stressed out most of 01:51:25.489 --> 01:51:28.390 the time watching them. But I think just enjoying 01:51:28.390 --> 01:51:31.590 them and kind of reaching back on the little 01:51:31.590 --> 01:51:34.649 things, watching them grow up is my decompression. 01:51:34.850 --> 01:51:37.010 My wife will probably say I'll stare at my phone 01:51:37.010 --> 01:51:38.529 a little bit too much here and there, but I think 01:51:38.529 --> 01:51:40.989 that's just kind of the way of the world now. 01:51:41.050 --> 01:51:44.050 I need to do a better job of that. But spending 01:51:44.050 --> 01:51:46.609 time with my wife, getting to laugh with her, 01:51:46.750 --> 01:51:49.989 and just kind of – being infatuated watching 01:51:49.989 --> 01:51:53.710 watching your kids what it's it's funny this 01:51:53.710 --> 01:51:56.970 is usually what most people say and it just loops 01:51:56.970 --> 01:51:59.949 around again to the extra time that people in 01:51:59.949 --> 01:52:03.130 Gainesville Fire Rescue now have with their their 01:52:03.130 --> 01:52:05.270 family their their decompression the reason that 01:52:05.270 --> 01:52:07.989 they do it for so you know it's it's uh it's 01:52:07.989 --> 01:52:10.550 full circle with that so for people listening 01:52:10.550 --> 01:52:12.909 if they want to reach out to you learn more about 01:52:12.909 --> 01:52:14.810 you where are the best places to do that online 01:52:14.810 --> 01:52:19.439 or social media So social media, yeah, I'm pretty 01:52:19.439 --> 01:52:22.140 simple. It's David Shuford. My name's listed 01:52:22.140 --> 01:52:24.859 here. I won't give out my phone number because 01:52:24.859 --> 01:52:27.079 that'd be a lot, but they can email me and I'll 01:52:27.079 --> 01:52:30.659 send them my phone number, but it's president2157 01:52:30.659 --> 01:52:37.260 at gmail .com. Anybody can message me on that, 01:52:37.359 --> 01:52:39.340 on any information they got, and I'll send them. 01:52:39.380 --> 01:52:41.100 I got a little worksheet I can send them from 01:52:41.100 --> 01:52:43.920 that Nick made about 24 -72s. It's kind of like 01:52:43.920 --> 01:52:46.420 a little quick pick. And then I'll send them 01:52:46.420 --> 01:52:48.340 my numbers if they want to have a longer conversation. 01:52:48.560 --> 01:52:50.819 So that's probably the easiest way. Or they can 01:52:50.819 --> 01:52:53.199 call the department. I'm in training Monday through 01:52:53.199 --> 01:52:56.119 Thursday. Somebody there will give you my phone 01:52:56.119 --> 01:52:59.619 number as well. Beautiful. Well, I want to thank 01:52:59.619 --> 01:53:02.800 you so much, mate. It's been so great to hear. 01:53:03.399 --> 01:53:08.899 a year plus later, because all the reasons that 01:53:08.899 --> 01:53:11.140 you guys made this courageous change is still 01:53:11.140 --> 01:53:13.739 going on in a lot of places. But to debunk some 01:53:13.739 --> 01:53:15.899 of the myths, some of the naysayers, to hear 01:53:15.899 --> 01:53:18.260 the successes, to hear the testimony, as you 01:53:18.260 --> 01:53:21.420 said, of family units being brought back together 01:53:21.420 --> 01:53:24.680 again, I hope it's enough to really inspire people 01:53:24.680 --> 01:53:27.920 that are on the fence. I think a lot of people 01:53:27.920 --> 01:53:31.500 just need the hope that this is the right way 01:53:31.500 --> 01:53:34.619 of doing it. It infuriates me because people 01:53:34.619 --> 01:53:36.739 say, oh, we need to see data. It's like, we don't. 01:53:36.739 --> 01:53:39.899 You keep putting that phrase up as a hurdle to 01:53:39.899 --> 01:53:42.039 make this progress yourself. Listen to Dixon 01:53:42.039 --> 01:53:46.000 Phillips. Listen to you. Listen to all the other 01:53:46.000 --> 01:53:47.600 people I've had on. And for anyone listening. 01:53:48.250 --> 01:53:51.329 the Behind the Shield podcast website, jamesgearing 01:53:51.329 --> 01:53:53.989 .com. There's a 24 -72 tab, and I'm going to 01:53:53.989 --> 01:53:57.010 add this episode to it. It's literally about 01:53:57.010 --> 01:53:59.810 30 different links, everything from people like 01:53:59.810 --> 01:54:02.029 yourself to neuroscientists, to sleep medicine 01:54:02.029 --> 01:54:04.369 experts, to strength and conditioning coaches, 01:54:04.510 --> 01:54:06.250 everything that's related to this conversation. 01:54:06.470 --> 01:54:08.989 So we don't need any more data. I mean, we're 01:54:08.989 --> 01:54:10.789 having these testimonies from departments like 01:54:10.789 --> 01:54:13.829 you now, and I hope this conversation gives whoever's 01:54:13.829 --> 01:54:16.090 listening the courage. to fight for their own 01:54:16.090 --> 01:54:18.810 men and women. So I want to thank you so much 01:54:18.810 --> 01:54:20.930 for being so generous with your time and coming 01:54:20.930 --> 01:54:23.449 on the Behind the Shield podcast today. Yeah, 01:54:23.470 --> 01:54:25.890 no, I appreciate it. You know, sometimes data 01:54:25.890 --> 01:54:28.210 is important. And I think the biggest factor 01:54:28.210 --> 01:54:30.949 on that is, you know, we weren't staffed, now 01:54:30.949 --> 01:54:32.750 we're fully staffed. And, you know, I didn't 01:54:32.750 --> 01:54:35.130 even get to the numbers of vacation hour use 01:54:35.130 --> 01:54:37.210 compared to sick and how much more people are 01:54:37.210 --> 01:54:39.970 actually at work compared. I mean, it's... Let's 01:54:39.970 --> 01:54:41.750 talk about that. We don't have to close out yet. 01:54:41.789 --> 01:54:43.930 Let's put that in at the end, please. Well, I 01:54:43.930 --> 01:54:47.369 mean, so we plan, I think it was Plano. I'll 01:54:47.369 --> 01:54:49.750 have to look, but you know, these guys reached 01:54:49.750 --> 01:54:52.850 out about how many, how many hours we were using 01:54:52.850 --> 01:54:55.680 in sick leave before and sick leave. After, same 01:54:55.680 --> 01:54:59.180 with vacation. I mean, the difference in vacation 01:54:59.180 --> 01:55:01.979 was 3 ,600 hours used. Like, that's how much 01:55:01.979 --> 01:55:04.340 less hours were used in vacation, six months 01:55:04.340 --> 01:55:07.899 hours compared to previous. And then vacation 01:55:07.899 --> 01:55:09.979 was, or sick leave was the same thing. It was 01:55:09.979 --> 01:55:13.000 over 2 ,400 hours. So the people are wanting 01:55:13.000 --> 01:55:15.079 to show up to work more because they feel like 01:55:15.079 --> 01:55:17.619 they don't have to use those hours just so they 01:55:17.619 --> 01:55:20.489 can spend time with their families. they can 01:55:20.489 --> 01:55:22.189 actually bank those hours because they want to 01:55:22.189 --> 01:55:23.970 be at work they can be at work and they don't 01:55:23.970 --> 01:55:26.609 feel so ran down so if you want data you that's 01:55:26.609 --> 01:55:29.329 easy data you can pull how much vacation and 01:55:29.329 --> 01:55:31.649 sick sick leave is being used and along with 01:55:31.649 --> 01:55:33.329 the other stuff the injuries and everything like 01:55:33.329 --> 01:55:36.109 that and fsu studies i mean all that's there 01:55:36.109 --> 01:55:37.729 if you want data the data is there it's just 01:55:37.729 --> 01:55:39.630 if are you are you willing to actually look at 01:55:39.630 --> 01:55:41.529 the actual data instead of just saying you need 01:55:41.529 --> 01:55:45.789 more so absolutely well again thank you so much 01:55:45.789 --> 01:55:47.470 i'm glad we hit that at the very end but i really 01:55:47.470 --> 01:55:50.079 appreciate you coming on the show today Yeah, 01:55:50.079 --> 01:55:51.100 no, I appreciate it. Thank you.