Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As
always, my name is James Geering, and this week
it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show
veteran firefighter, cancer survivor, and the
founder of the Decon Project, Patrick Long. Now,
in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics,
from his unique journey into the fire service,
the potential hazards on submarines, his powerful
cancer story, the importance of post -fire decons.
the use of sauna, and so much more. Now, before
we get to this incredible conversation, as I
say every week, please just take a moment. Go
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Every single five -star rating truly does elevate
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person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.
So with that being said, I introduce to you,
Patrick. Enjoy. Well, Patrick, I want to start
by saying thank you so much for taking the time
and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.
Hey, thank you so much, James. I am beyond excited
and really thankful for this opportunity. And
I'm looking forward to having a great conversation
and getting to know each other a little bit more
and sharing some things that I'm working on and
what I feel God's kind of blessed me with and
pointing me to. So really excited. Thank you.
Likewise. So very first question, where on planet
Earth are we finding you today? Hey, man, I am
in Waverly, Georgia. It is definitely just a
dot on the map. There is not much here. And I
would say for those of us that live here, that's
exactly how we like it. But yeah, man, kind of
moved from Atlanta, where it was big city, bustling
and hustling all the time. We've caught ourselves
out here in what we would consider the woods.
Now, I will say it's the coolest thing, man.
We're 20 minutes from the beach, but kind of
out here in the woods and got ourselves a little
chunk of property. It's amazing. We're very,
very blessed. So yeah, Waverly, Georgia. I think
we have a population of less than a thousand
people in this little spot. So pretty fun. We
just had that massive weather, cold ice storm
move through the states. We got pretty cold down
here in the low 20s, nothing crazy. I think some
parts of our county got a little bit of snow.
What did you experience up there? Yeah, same,
man. Super cold, super windy. We did have flurries,
and that was really cool because we don't expect
to see that very much around here, probably much
like you. But, yeah, it was – I tell everybody,
all my buddies that are like from up north and
stuff like that, we have a I feel like it's just
a different form of cold when you're kind of
on the coast or in the southeast. It's like the
humidity hits with the cold weather and almost
like we're not used to it. So it hits us twice
as hard. But it was the wind for me. Like, I
mean, my face got chapped. I was on shift. My
face got chapped. My lips got chapped, all that
stuff. But I did see videos of guys like fighting
fire and stuff in like foot to a couple of feet
of snow. And I'm like, at least I can't complain
about anything. At least we didn't have that.
So very thankful. I've always seen those videos
because I experienced. most of my career in either
california southern california or central florida
so or actually south florida as well so super
hot on the east coast super humid and there is
no way as you know of offsetting that heat but
i've never had to unfreeze a fire hydrant so
uh you know that's right yes i'm man i'm so thankful
and everything also where i'm at and since i've
been a firefighter uh Everything I'm at is right
there. Everything's flat. We don't really have
any crazy hills. We'll go up to the mountains
in North Georgia and like do a vacation or something
like that. And you'll see these driveways where
the driveway is like this. And I'm like, the
only thing I can think about as a firefighter
is trying to hump hose all the way up that incline
just to get to the front door of the house. Like
I just, I couldn't even imagine. So especially
when you're putting ice and snow into the mix,
that would just be brutal. And so my complaints,
I get humbled pretty quickly. And by my own,
my own mind, I'm like, at least I don't have
to do that. Those guys are the real beasts. So
I'm very happy. Yeah. The closest I ever got
to seeing someone like that. I went on a really
good fire in Southern California and the house
was owned by a tweaker and he had tiled all the
firewalls in the house. Um, and he tiled his
entire front driveway with that kind of like
slick bathroom tile. So everyone's walking around
and they're fine. Well, then when they start
flowing water, it's literally like Disney on
ice fireman edition. It's like a slip and slide.
Yeah. Oh my gosh. Like, yeah, he was, uh, he,
that's a, that's a hard working tweaker right
there. Oh, exactly. Yeah. That's not easy work.
No, no. It was impeccable. Yeah. That's incredible,
man. Well, awesome. Yeah, I would say I would
count us both blessed. I mean, I've had some
crazy calls. You know, we all have. That's one
of the coolest parts of this job is, like, you're
going to see things that you're like, I've never
in a million years expected to see something
like that. But I've been very blessed to avoid
most of the snow and the cold. Now, hurricanes,
things like that, obviously, we got them in droves
here, you know, since I've been a part of it.
five or six major hurricanes come this way and
you know you got to navigate that and uh i didn't
really ever have to worry about that in atlanta
or anything so coming down here that's a there's
that's every year around that time it's like
let's go okay what are we in for it this year
or not you know so um probably much like you
you probably feel the exact same way so uh yeah
it's it i'm I think about that all the time,
how lucky I am to be where I'm at. What are some
of the calls, if any, spring to your mind that
actually correlate with the I never thought I'd
ever see that in my lifetime kind of call? Oh,
man. Well. I'll tell you one of the first calls
that I went to that you all, it was like the
old wives tale. Like, uh, you know, your mom
used to say, Hey, don't climb on the fence. You're
going to lose a finger. You know, if you climb
up on the fence, that, that top, you know, it's
going to catch your hand and you'll get stuck
dangling right there in your hand. And I always
was like, dude, I've climbed millions of fences.
Like we've jumped all, you know, I played, I
grew up playing baseball. Like every, we were
just, we'd jump around all over the fences, go
play ball, do whatever. And sure enough, I went
to a guy that had broke into a store and he was
hopping over a fence. And actually this is the
reason I wear a rubber wedding ring, but it got
caught in his wedding band. And he's hanging
up on this fence stuck there. And it did a quality
degloving on his finger. And he's essentially
hanging on by the skin of his finger. And, you
know, the ring had degloved the rest of it. And
he's just stuck there. I don't know, stole probably
$60 worth of stuff from this store and gets stuck
like that. And then we had to lift him off, get
him off the fence. transport him to the hospital
for that. And I'm like, I never in a million
years thought that that would be, I always just
thought that was an old wives tale. Like, ah,
don't do it. You know, I thought that was something
your mom would tell you just so that you didn't
have to, you know, jump, you weren't doing something
dumb. And sure enough, here's a grown man dangling
by his skin of his finger because he got caught
in his wedding band. I thought that was pretty
wild. I've got plenty more that are maybe not
as, as, as listener clean as maybe they could
be of, of, uh, you know, some pretty wild scenarios.
Um, I will tell you one, a guy went out, I think
how every grown man wants to go out making love
to his wife. And, uh, he had always said, Hey,
I'm going to die. Making love to my wife is what
his wife said. And, uh, sure enough, had a massive
heart attack during that. fun encounter with
you know his wife what we do is as married couples
and uh we show up and and he was having some
help and and you know with uh some medications
and we were doing like the whole work and all
that that was really wild never thought i'd have
to go to that but we did and um I've got a couple
more that I would say off air that were pretty,
pretty wild and some great paramedicking, but
yeah, those are just a few. What about you? Anything
that comes to mind? Well, when you mentioned
hopping over a fence, I remember one, we had
a guy and it wasn't someone, you know, committing
a crime. I think he was just, you know, taking
a shortcut, whatever it was and had a complete
ankle dislocation. So his, his, you know, ankle
and foot. yeah completely ripped off tib fib
you know the ends of them are hanging out but
he's in shock so we're trying to get him to stop
and he keeps walking on the edge of his tip i
mean you know some of the things you see when
people should be just on the on the ground screaming
yeah and they're almost oblivious to gunshot
wounds or whatever it is those are some of the
ones that really used to blow those really are
crazy i'll tell another one that i have that
i remember this being like a aha moment. So obviously
I grew up playing sports and all that. And we
would always be told like wear compression shorts,
like under your don't, don't just wear boxer
briefs. Right. Well, I went to the local high
school for a football player that was injured
at practice. And, you know, you're showing up
with a million different things of like, what's,
what the heck's going on? Well, it only took
me a couple of seconds to realize he had, he
was holding. his man parts and clutched up in
the recovery position. And, uh, he said I was
running a route. He's a wide receiver. I was
running a route and, uh, I laid out for the ball.
And when I landed, it felt like my, my guys got
all twisted up. And so, you know what testicular
torsion is. And it's cause, uh, he said, I, I
didn't have tie. I didn't pack my compression
shorts and anything like that. I was just running
around in boxers and that happened. And I'm like,
that is a nightmare scenario. I said, there is
nothing I can put into my mind. That's going
to help me truly understand the pain that you're
in. The great thing is we're about three minutes
from the hospital. I'm going to get you there
as quick as possible. But that was another scenario.
I'm like, I never in a million years thought
I'd go to. 17 -year -old kid running a football
route and have testicular torsion. That was crazy.
I really had no clue, but that was another crazy
one that I definitely can share. There's plenty
that we all know about that are crazy. Sometimes
they're just better left to be said at just a
firehouse. uh yeah man i'm amazed you don't see
more of that in the ufc the testicular 360 for
the tap out yeah yeah exactly that's exactly
right and that i mean what a move that would
be you know so yeah this that's uh it's funny
those guys will beat themselves to a pulp like
Punch their face, punch their gut. Like, you
know, you're breaking ribs. But the minute one
of them gets a random kick to the groin, they
stop the fight. They're like, yo, stop, stop,
stop. I always think that's so funny. I'm like,
this guy literally has a broken nose, probably
a broken orbit, probably broken ribs. He gets
hit in the nuts and it's like, stop the fight.
We got to pause for a second. It's like, man,
we're kind of backwards on that. So yeah, it's
funny. That whole Achilles heel thing, I don't
think it was his heel. It was Achilles nuts probably.
It was just Achilles nuts. That's exactly right.
It just, you know, trying to keep it PG. But
yeah, your brother, he's 18 months younger than
me. And so kind of grew up almost like twins,
like as far as like just how close we were in
age. We looked very similar, acted similar. So
we were always kind of. you know, mistaken for
each other all the time and stuff like that.
Both very different, but very, very similar in
the same regard. And now he's in the Marines.
He's doing great things. He's been doing awesome
for a long time. So, yeah, really proud of him.
And, yeah, I grew up in South Georgia or South
Atlanta. Um, absolutely loved where I grew up.
Like it was very, very small town really up until
I was in high school. Then it started growing
much like most of the, uh, you know, suburban
Atlanta, but man grew up playing sports. Uh,
baseball was definitely my like. sport of choice
but I played some football I swam all through
high school man did it all like we were really
really involved in all sports but baseball was
kind of what I loved and felt a huge passion
for very very early on and was super blessed
it gave me an opportunity to get a scholarship
to go play in college and played baseball at
Jacksonville University for two years in Jacksonville
Florida And it's kind of how I became familiar
with the area that we live in now is I had some
friends kind of live up here in this area. And
I'd go and visit them from time to time and go
and stop by for like a day vacation or two. And
that was really fun. And then I transferred to
Georgia Gwinnett College, which is in North Atlanta.
And incredible baseball program there. They really
have taken off. And like, I was super blessed.
I was part of the very first team. I will go
down in history as the very first person to strike
out as a Georgia Gwinnett Grizzly. So I'll wear
that. And yeah, it was a lot of fun. Great time.
That's where I met my wife. So we've known each
other for a long time now. I've been married
for, shoot. 10 years and together for 12. So
just super happy with that. This will be our
10th year in November and she still likes me
like, so I'm really happy. And yeah, I've been
in the fire service really. This is my, you know,
10th year in the fire service. And so freaking
cool. You know how, as well as I do, like it
really does blow by. I mean, the first couple
of years you were just like, I'm a new guy and
you're just trying to play catch up all the time
and not mess up. And then all of a sudden you're
in one day, it seems like they hire a bunch of
new guys and now somehow you're a senior guy
and you're supposed to be coaching them and helping
them. And I love that dynamic. And I would say
that my childhood, They did a great job. My parents
did a great job of teaching me. Being part of
a team is something I knew very early on. I wanted
to be a teammate. I really enjoyed being part
of a team. I didn't gravitate towards the individual
sports and things like that. I really loved being
on a team. And when I got done with Ball in college,
there was about six months where I had a business
degree. I've got a business degree and minor
in marketing. And I was like, man, you know,
I'm going to go out and use this. And I didn't
know exactly what to do. I got into logistics,
you know, and thought I would try that out. And,
man, knew very quickly. I was like, this is not
what I'm called to do. Like, it is me sitting
on a phone or behind a computer. cold calling,
reaching out, doing whatever. And then the next
day it's kind of like the same thing. And there's
not really much of a teamwork thing. It's about
what I'm bringing to the table. I really, I missed
that. And so I knew very early on, I was like,
I'm either probably going to look into the military
or, uh, I'm going to look into the fire service,
which is something I'd always prayed over and
thought, man, that'd be really, really cool.
And, uh, so Kind of in one fair swoop, I started
applying to different military branches and,
you know, took the ASVAB, did all that. And I
was wanting to go in as an officer. I had my
my degree. And at the same time, I was working
out at a gym there in Gwinnett County. And a
couple of the guys I worked out with were with
the fire department there. It's a really big
fire department. They're a great fire department.
They'll put you from firefighter all the way
to medic. It's a good department to be a part
of. And they're like, man, we can, you know,
pull some strings and get you on. I feel like
you'd be a guy that'd be a great candidate. And,
man, they did. They got me in. And, man, this
kind of opens up kind of a crazy trajectory.
I'm so glad that I got on there. And I will actually
tell you, so it's called the Zero to Hero Program.
And that's how it was. I don't believe it's like
this anymore. But you are fully paid, fully compensated,
covered, like you're insured, everything. And
your whole job is to be an EMT student. And then
you're going to go straight to medic. And then
you're going to get your fire one and fire two.
And I know other programs have done the same
thing. But for me, I had no experience. And so
you're just kind of like trial by, you know,
like you're being thrown into the fire, no pun
intended. Like you are learning on the fly. And,
man, I got through EMT, got my EMT, getting a
medic. like doing really well, kind of starting
to make a name for myself with clinicals and
third rides and things like that. I'm really
hitting it off. And I knew after the first day
of being in the firehouse, like my very first
day, spending the night at the firehouse, I was
like, oh, this is what I'm supposed to be doing.
Like, I knew it. I was so thankful. I remember
coming home and just telling my wife, Cassie,
and praying. I was like, I found out what I'm
supposed to be doing right now. And I'm so happy.
And, you know, and so going through that, really
enjoying the process. But I'll be honest, and
you know this, like medic is not easy. And at
the speed and pace, especially when you don't
have any really like calls or background to build
off of, I got behind. I was good at regurgitating
the information, but when it was time to... Really
start understanding applications and having things
build. Well, if this happens to this, what does
this mean for this? You know, that wasn't clicking.
I didn't have enough experience with that. And
I've learned that I'm a very, I'm a hands -on
learner. If you show me something two or three
times and then let me try it once, I probably
got it. But if I'm just reading it. It might
never click, you know, and so thank God for YouTube
and thank God for all the instructors and guys
that took me under their wing and showed me.
I'm so thankful for that. It was such a blessing.
But yeah, got all the way to the final exam of
medic. not even national registry, just the final
exam for the class. And I failed it not once,
but twice. And so they had a rule. If you failed
multiple tests throughout that course, you know,
they, they release you. And even though it was
a final, and even though I was a guy that they
really enjoyed and, and wanted to be a part of
rules are rules. So I couldn't be mad. I had
to respect that. Cause if they would have let
me. get through and not somebody else would have
used that and been like, well, you let Pat get
through or whatever. And so, man, I will tell
you, that was like one of my first like major
times of like, I'm, I failed. Like I didn't do
well enough. I had always had a pretty, um, easy
time with school. You know, I'd always had, I've
always been pretty successful at. you know, whatever
I was really wanting to put my mind to, this
was the first thing that I was putting so much
effort, so much time, so much thought and prayer
into, and I still failed. And I didn't know what
the heck to do after. And I'll, I'll be honest.
I, I, I was freaking out. I'm like, is this what
I'm supposed to do? Like, I thought this was
it. And man, I just started applying to other
places around, around the area, around Atlanta,
which were very blessed. It was like, hundreds
of departments to apply to in the meantime i
got hired on by a little private ems company
and no bash to private ems because there's different
shape sizes and departments for that but the
one that i did was mostly just 10 13 transports
so you're not really doing much for the patient
half the time they were asleep You know, they
were pumped full of Haldol or something, but,
uh, man, not, it didn't scratch the itch that
I was wanting. And I, but I was like, I just
got to keep doing this and an opportunity will
open up. And, uh, long story short, a friend
of a friend had a buddy down here at Glenn County
fire department where I, uh, now like right here
where we live. And he said, Hey, you know, they're
a busy department. They, they get after it. one
of the things that he knew I was looking for
is they'll put you through medic class. And I
really wanted that. I wanted another shot at
it. I had kind of taken the punch in the chin,
um, question, am I supposed to be doing that?
All that. And then I realized like, no, I want
another go at this thing. And, uh, yeah. So man,
while we're finding out that we're, you know,
my wife and I are expecting, we just pack up,
leave everything that we know, come down to a
town that we didn't know anything about, didn't
know a soul, and start up with a fire department
was making like, I mean, laughable how little
we were getting paid at that, you know, an hour
to start. just as an EMT and first responder.
But man, they put me through fire school. They
put me through advanced EMT and then into my
medic. And I'm so thankful for it. I was there
for almost six years. It was like five years
and 11 months. Great experience. A lot of calls,
a lot of crazy stuff happened and that I got
to be an opportunity to do. And I tell everybody,
I really loved being a medic, but down there,
down here, I had, I loved being on the ambulance
the most because we got to have nozzle on, on
structure fires. That was, uh, that was one of
the perks of being on the ambulance here, you
know, down here. And so they would try and take
me off the ambulance and I would just be like,
heck no, man, let's keep going. Uh, you know,
or I'm going to get, I'm going to get this next
cert because I loved, um, The patient care aspect,
I love being a patient advocate. And then I also
love to have a nozzle on a fire. And then even
the best part is I loved once the fire was out,
me looking at my officer and be like, hey, we
got to go back into service, you know. And so
I didn't have to roll up any hose, nothing. It's
not the greatest thing to do, but we've all done
that. We've all played that card. We got to have
our fun and then dip out. So that was really
fun. And then about almost four years ago, I
had an opportunity to get on here where I'm currently
at with Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay here in
Kings Bay, Georgia. We're a federal fire department.
And it is so different, but still the same, man.
Every fire department has got... 99 % the same
qualities. It's just, you know, we have different
training. And honestly, there's nothing on this
world that's going to prepare you for training
on a submarine. It is unlike anything I've ever
seen or done. And just like we were talking about
earlier, never in a million years did I think
some kid from South Atlanta would be, you know,
doing training on a submarine. Never, ever. And
so for that, every time we step foot on one of
those, I'm kind of starstruck. I'm impressed
just how big they are, how powerful our Navy
is. Really, really cool. And most importantly,
I'm just praying the whole time that nothing
ever happens because this is going to be one
heck of a mess if something pops off on one of
these things. That's kind of where I'm at now.
That kind of adds up my whole 10, almost 11 years
now of firing MS. It has been an absolute blast.
I love it. I will tell you from a guy that has
talked about mental health and stuff like that,
I've had... months where i'm just questioning
am i supposed to still be doing this or you know
you get in that rut and maybe you're starting
to feel burnout because you know i i i got my
medic like six months before covid really popped
off and and covid was really hard on everybody
obviously i mean but uh for first responders
that was that was a battle i i had never expected
to face ever And we were just so inundated with
calls. So it felt like we were literally like
alone trying to like figure out each step all
the time. Like everybody's trying to figure this
stuff out and we're still expected to go to work.
And all everything did was instead of running
10 calls on a shift, you run 15 to 16 and you're
just gassed. And people are quitting or people
are getting sick. And so you're getting forced
overtime all the time. And it was really, really
hard. And it played a lot of mind games with
you. And so that was a really interesting time,
a really hard time. But I look back and I'm like,
I'm so glad that I grinded through some of those
really difficult challenges. Man, I really love
where I'm at now. And I believe that that's kind
of, it is normal to anybody that is struggling
with, you know, having a tough month or a tough
couple of ships. Just know you're not alone.
You're not the only person that's sitting there
at 3 a .m. coming back from a stubbed toe wondering
if you made the right choice. It is okay. And
I promise you, you're there for a reason. It's
that time with the guys in the firehouse. It's
the camaraderie. It's those things that get you
through. And I will tell you, the brotherhood,
for me personally, what I've got to witness this
last year. in my career and in my personal life
of the firehood and brotherhood surrounding me
and my family and carrying me through a really
difficult time, I've never been so impressed
and so thankful to be a part of it. It shows
how much bigger it is than just running calls
or riding on really cool trucks. That's, that's
a, in a nutshell, a little bit of the story and
kind of how I ended up where I'm at. So. You
mentioned about failing out of medic school the
first time. And I think that's a, that's a great
reflection of where we used to be, where we should
be, which is, you know, minimum standards and,
you know, in a, in a profession where we're truly
making life -saving interventions, whether it's
a crime, whether it's certain meds, the bar shouldn't
be lowered. Yep. You talked also about all the
places around Atlanta, you know, were hiring,
but you're still trying to figure out where you're
going to go. And you end up obviously on coastal
Georgia. In 10 short years ago, how competitive
was it to get hired in the fire service in Georgia?
Oh, man, it was things were very competitive.
You know, my class at Gwinnett. They had multiple
classes each year, recruit classes of 50 to 60
students, and maybe 10 of them at the end would
be graduating with everything. Those are really
crazy numbers. And it was like that at a bunch
of different departments. The town that I grew
up in, there were hiring days where the line
was out the door. You know, and interview days
where the line was out the door. And unfortunately
now, I mean, even with like Department of Defense
and stuff with our pay and comparative schedules
and whatever else, it's still extremely hard
to get people to come in and sign up for it,
especially younger people, you know. And that's,
man, it bums me out so much. And I hope that.
I hate that there's like that financial part
of it that we're so far behind financially because
this job pays you back so well with the brotherhood
and with the camaraderie and all that. It really,
in my opinion, is the greatest job on the planet
because of the stuff that you get to do and the
people that you get to build a life with. I mean,
you really do have a second family. But for young
people, they're... And I'm not on here to bad
talk like, oh, this generation is so weak or
anything like that. I would say more or less
it's the fire service in general has constantly
raised its hand and taken on more stuff. My dad
way back in the day was a volunteer firefighter
in New York and not in the city of New York,
but in Poughkeepsie, Newburgh area is where he
was. And he said they literally just would go
to wrecks and in fires. That was it. You know,
you didn't have. But then what do we do? Most
fire departments were like, hey, we'll take on
EMS. We'll take on hazmat. We'll take on tech
rescue. We'll take on all these things. We're
constantly the ones that take on more and more.
And we're the last ones to complain about. We'll
complain to ourselves all the time. Firefighters
will complain to other firefighters about everything.
And heaven forbid my wife ever wrote a book about
all my complaints. But we don't complain to other
people or outward or complain up that well, really,
as a group. Firefighters don't complain to the
right people well enough about certain things
like pay. like health care, things like that,
we're always just like, hey, we can take that
on. We can shoulder that weight. And that's super
respectful, but it is making it to where I would
say nowadays these young guys that are coming
in and they're looking at how much work is expected
compared to really just what's on the fine print
as far as. pay and they're like i don't know
if that's something i'm willing to take on because
i can't put into a monetary value the costs and
uh you know and how awesome the payment is when
you have a good shift or you run a really good
call with your bros and you're coming back from
that call laughing and making jokes and in in
you're eating a great meal and watching the super
bowl That to me is priceless. But for some young
guys standing in line, he might not see it that
way. He has no clue. And so it's really hard
to get new people to get in the door and get
new people hired on. Matter of fact, it seems
like a lot of the guys I've seen lately that
are getting hired are almost in that line of
like middle age and they're looking for like
a career change or like looking for something
to challenge them. And they're a little bit more.
well -versed in their life or knowledgeable on
what they want. And they've been there and done
that on some things. And they're wanting that
challenge that the fire department brings. And,
uh, you know, that's, that's kind of a scary
time. Cause I, I'm not old enough, but I know
when, um, the housing market crashed in 2008
and the bubble, that was when you saw big lines
out the door like crazy. And it kind of continued
on through for a couple of years there. And,
uh, You know, it's funny how quickly we kind
of lose sight of all that and we don't realize
how. Just how awesome this job is, we just see
what's on paper and it's hard to get new people
in. I know it's really long winded, but that's
really what I got. So do you do you feel kind
of the same way from what you see and where y
'all are at? Yeah, I mean, what I've seen is,
you know. I use this story a lot. When I competed
for one of only 15 positions in my class in California,
at the written test, there were 1 ,000 candidates.
And they were resumes. They had previous experience.
They had all their certs. They were wild land.
They were ambulance operators. I mean, super,
super competitive. And this is what I hold as
a benchmark because that was literally 20 years
ago. 20, 21 years ago. And so all the way through
to about 10 years ago, most of us were still
rapport. It was very competitive. But what I
have seen is there are elements that are broken
as far as the way firefighters have worked. Not
the job. I love the job, which is why seven years
out of uniform, I'm still fighting for people
in the job. But you cannot work people more and
more and more and more without a collapse, whether
it's a collapse of the profession. the individuals,
their mental health, their marriage, their relationship
with the kids, it takes a toll. And so what I've
shifted my mindset now is to, well, let's talk
about performance. If we want the paramedic,
the firefighter to operate at the highest level,
so God forbid they get the Parkland shooting,
the Grenfell fire, whatever it is, that is when
you need these people to be at their absolute
best. And the way that we work our firefighters,
could not be more opposite of that they are they
are exhausted they are beat down they're riddled
with injuries they're worrying about their marriage
or that you know all the things so i think that
these young people are coming into this profession
in this super um internet age where there's just
you can learn anything about anything and now
when you look up isn't it healthy to be a firefighter
google will tell you actually no it's it's a
fucking awful when they look at the physical
and mental health, these young people, they're
tuned into their physical health. They're tuned
into their mental health. You know, the ones
that really want to do what we do. And then they
value their relationships and their time with
their loved ones. So they're looking at, like
you said on paper, not, they're not looking at
the profession. They're looking at the working
conditions and they're going, I really want to
serve. I really want to work with my hands. I'm
going to go be a welder because this fire thing,
obviously they don't. take care of their people
so all we need to do is change their working
conditions and i guarantee you you'll have lines
out the door again and we're seeing it in florida
that have gone to this 42 hour work week but
i'm yes i in that you're exactly right the schedule
changes that we're seeing is such a we're so
far behind it that that should have been that
should have been like done and that was common
knowledge a decade ago of how toxic. I mean,
I think you and I talked about it on the phone.
Shift work is now known as a carcinogen. It's
deemed a carcinogen, right? And that's insane
because that's all we are. I mean, I've had shifts
where I don't run my first call until 8 p .m.
and then we don't see the firehouse until 8 a
.m. the next morning when we're at shift change.
And I've had or forced overtime, where in the
entire 48 hours, mind you, I'm a medic. I've
got people's lives in my hand. If I am not pushing
the right medication, I can literally kill somebody.
And I'm running on 45 minutes to an hour of sleep
in that 48 hours. And that is so harsh. And such
a horrible feeling to be in. And I mean, I think
about it, me and my buddy, man, we joke about
this often. We had a couple ambulances here in
town that really ran a lot. And there were so
many days where I would get home, you know, I'd
pull into my driveway and I don't remember turning
on my truck. I don't remember stopping at a single
red light or stoplight. or stop sign. You know,
I don't remember like putting on my blinker,
anything. And I'm like, how did I, how did I
get home? Like, I really don't remember that.
That's how like delirious and exhausted I was.
And you add that onto a 30 year career, it can
have major impacts on your health. I mean, I'm,
that's kind of how we, we met, but that, you
know, I'm, I'm a cancer survivor. of, uh, you
know, diffuse large B cell lymphoma. And I, it
popped up really out of nowhere. And I've, you
know, been doing this for, like I said, you know,
almost 11 years and, um, it popped up out of
nowhere. And my doctors, uh, said that there's
a pretty good chance that it's just the accumulation
of, of the exposures that you had and the lifestyle
that you have. Well, That's hard for me to swallow
sometimes because as far as lifestyle, I literally
might be one of the healthiest people I know.
I'm constantly working out. I constantly watch
what I eat. I don't smoke. I don't drink. I've
kind of been that health and wellness guy my
entire life, and yet it happened to me. My whole
mission has been, hey, If it can happen to me,
I'm not trying to scare anybody, but if it can
happen to me, it can happen to anybody. And we
have to be the best ambassadors for ourselves
because just like you were talking about with
some of those that we're still very far behind
in the fire service on a lot of the medical stuff
that can be provided to us to ensure that we're
living the highest quality lives and giving ourselves
the best chance at recovery. you know, healing,
things like that. And so that's where, that's
where my focus is a lot right now is trying to
really build that up and raise that awareness
and try and do some things to combat against
it, you know? So yeah, I couldn't agree more
that, and I'm so thankful for your mission. And
like you said, even though you're no longer,
you know, riding the truck anymore. There's still
a mission to be had and you're still bringing
so much awareness to it all. And I think that's
so amazing because we need more voices like that.
You know, because for the fire service, we all
know this. Most people don't think about their
fire department, you know, every day. Most people
don't think about their fire department once
a year. But when we're called and they call us,
they expect us to be, 100 % the best at our job,
dominate the call, do everything right. They
don't care if we just went to a wreck where,
you know, a baby was lost. They don't care if
we're running on 12 minutes of sleep because
we just got forced overtime because there's a
staff shortage. They don't care that we're on
the other side of our zone. Wrapping up from
a structure fire call and we got toned in there.
All they're wondering is why did it take so long?
Why are you not giving my my grandma the best
service and the kindest service possible? You
know, that's the hardest part of the job is that
we might be so exhausted. But the minute we get
into the door of whatever home that we access
when they're calling us, we have to bring our
a game and turn on. And a lot of times we got
to fake it. We got to kind of fake it through
and fake it till we make it kind of thing. I
mean, there's been so many times that I'm like,
this is not an emergency. But if I act like that
to that patient, I'm not really. They're not
looking at Pat Long. They're looking at whatever
fire department I have on my uniform. I'm a representation
of that fire department. And that's really, really
a tough thing to do, especially when you're exhausted,
especially when it's toe pain at three in the
morning and they want to go get an x -ray. And
you're like, this is the most ridiculous thing
ever. You know, those are the ones that. can
eat at you a little bit, but you just got to
stay focused. And, and yeah, it's a, it's a,
it's crazy times and kind of bringing up COVID
really showed a lot of, uh, faults in, in the
system. We realized really quickly that we didn't
have enough medics on shift. We realized very
quickly that we didn't have enough ambulances.
We realized very quickly that the minute that
we start getting over, you know, as a department
with, you know, a mid -sized department, over
80 calls across the department of shift, we are
completely inundated. Now we're asking for...
mutual aid from different places, and it never
has time to correct itself. That entire shift,
it is just anarchy. You're just trying to figure
out who's what. We also learned a lot in the
healthcare system. I can speak for the hospital
that we had. They did their absolute best, and
God bless the nurses that had to be put in that
scenario. They were just putting a... a medical,
like a bed in the middle of the hallway and just
create, that was a room. And you would have like
just this little sheet of paper on the wall saying,
oh, this is a room and all that. And you know
what it did? You watched the level of care across
the board go down drastically because it was
about numbers. It wasn't about level of care.
And as a medic, I hated that. I remember so many
times them telling me, You know, hey, if it's
not this, this or this, you got to take them
to triage. You got to take them up to the front
lobby and they're just going to have to wait.
And I'm like, man, this only a couple months
ago, this was like a, you know, this was a call
that would have gotten an emergency room bed
pretty quickly. And that really plays some games
with your mind. And the mental part of it all
was really taxing, really daunting. Each day,
you just really didn't understand fully what
you were going to get into. You just knew you
were going to get slammed and you probably weren't
going to sleep much. And that's some tough days
to go in there and do that. So now I sleep a
lot better being DOD. We got it pretty good.
We still have our nights. We still have our crazy
calls. A little bit fewer and farther between.
Using COVID as an analogy, I think it really
is a great comparison for the fire service at
the moment. Because if you just treat it reactively,
which is exactly what happened with COVID, you
go, oh, no, there's a virus. Everyone hide in
your house and wear a mask. The virus can't get
past six feet. So six feet, one inch is going
to die. So you're fine at six feet apart. You
know, all this ridiculousness that we were told.
And in the meantime, if you look at everything
that people were told, you know, as far as what
to do while we were enduring this pandemic, it
was don't see friends and family, stay in the
house. So don't get any sunshine or exercise
or nature, you know, get fast food and alcohol
delivered to your house. Binge watch the Tiger
King. like you couldn't have made it to make
people more vulnerable to a virus than exactly
what they were told what should have been you
know educated is all right there is one truth
the healthier we can make the population the
higher chance there is of them suffering from
the virus or succumbing to the virus so in the
meantime Let's, you know, encourage people to
be, you know, in outdoor spaces, not licking
each other's faces, but on the beach, in the
park, whatever it is, you know, exercise at home
or in the backyard or, you know, let's focus
on getting the healthy food, you know, bolstered,
subsidized. And in the meantime, let's talk about
putting PE back in schools and pedestrianizing
downtowns and creating cycle paths. And so that
the lesson is the takeaway is, well, we need
to get the American people healthier. And none
of that came out of it. The only conversation
about weight loss has been the GLP -1, which
is just making drug companies even more money.
And the moment you come off it, you're 10 times
more likely to gain weight. But now insert the
fire service. You have this spiraling, nosediving
profession. And so they're like, well, let's
go into a high school and just get all the kids
that want to be firefighters and we'll train
them and we'll do all this. Rather than let's
look at the thing that's broken. which is the
way that we're working. Let's invest in an extra
shift. So now, because I think you work 48, 48,
don't you? I do, yeah. So our federal firefighters,
we need to go from two shifts to four shifts
because it doesn't matter whether you're running
your ass off or not. You are still away from
your family for X amount of time and you're expected
to get the drop of the hat to respond to whatever
emergency. Invest in the front end, forge performance
like we do in special operations, special forces.
ocean lifeguard your favorite professional athlete
none of those people are not sleeping every you
know four four days a week and now all of a sudden
you have now proactively saved so much money
because you're not having to recruit twice a
year to fill suits seats that people are just
going to leave so those two i think are very
good kind of parallels We should be a healthier
nation after COVID, but we're not because we
didn't have the humility. We didn't learn anything.
So the fire service is the same. Yeah. Yep. And
you hit on so many great points. I'll piggyback
on another one is, I mean, I wish that fire departments
would almost treat one of their... firefighters
getting sick with so much sense of like fear
because of how much it cost. I've got no problem
saying I, man, so blessed. My cancer actually
got covered by workers' comp. It took a while
for everything to go through, but it did. They
looked at, I'm 33 and I got diagnosed with a
cancer that's most commonly found in 65 to 75
year olds. So they thought that was really strange.
And then obviously I've been doing it for 10
years. They're like the exposures, things like
that probably did not help. Right. And I have
a lymphoma. So everything, you know, your filter
system gets clogged. So every, everything in.
and our gear, everything that we wear is essentially
keeping things in as much as it's keeping the
heat out. Right. Um, and so we know that, and
I'm not blaming it on just that part of it is
just the man that is just the hand I've been
dealt. Um, but, uh, I was super blessed, but
my treatments cost over $1 .6 million. Right?
And that's just one firefighter going through
cancer. There are departments out there that
have got five, six firefighters going through
cancer. Well, we already are extremely low funded.
were already extremely short -staffed. When that
guy is going out, whenever I was out for almost
seven months with my chemo, the fact that my
white blood cell count was at like zero, so I
had no immune system for a while. So I had to
like gradually get myself up before I was allowed
to come back to work or approved to come back
to work. And in that time, they were Forcing,
my treatment was getting covered. My shift, every
time my shift came up, somebody got overtime
or forced overtime. That costs more money. The
financial of a sick firefighter is just can wreck
a department that's barely scraping by financially.
And so getting into some of the things that like
we're working on with the Decom Project, the
Decom Project that we put together, we're a nonprofit.
Check us out, thedecomproject .com. We got a
really cool thing, but we were like, I kind of
started digging around at some things that I
was like, what are some simple things that we
can do that have been just, we're way behind?
And actually, you talked about your time out
in California, but I talked to quite a few guys
out in the West Coast. A couple of these guys
were Colorado, a couple other bigger departments
around there. And they had been getting scans
for. the last 10 years, they'll get some kind
of scan to actually, you know, the whole department
will go through and get a whole ultrasound or
maybe an MRI of some type and actually get a
picture of what's going on, not just a set of
vitals and an eye check, you know, like is what
we get. And I, like I said, I've been doing this
for almost 11 years. I had never had a scan.
My first ever scan that I had showed me I had
over a hundred tumors throughout my body. And
I had no clue. The day that I got my ultrasound
back, I did what we, right here in town, we have
a really big bridge, the Sydney Linear Bridge.
And I did a big 10K. I do it every single year.
And I actually PR'd my 10K time. I was super
pumped, having no clue that I was riddled with
tumors. The only thing I knew is I had a small
bump on my neck right here under my left ear.
And I felt fine. I didn't really have anything
going on that I could, you know, justify as like,
oh, this is bad. I'm sick. Like, I was hunky
-dory. And, yeah, sure enough, found out I was
riddled with 100 tumors and it's fast growing.
And, you know, I wasn't given great odds of what
the next six months would look like, to be honest.
But, man, got through it. And, man, started.
praying and talking to some of the other guys.
And like I said, talking to some of those guys
out in the West Coast and they're like, man,
we've been getting scans forever. Like they even
asked like, how did they, how did they not see
this in your scans? I was like, bro, we don't
get scans through our fire department. This is
my third fire department I've been a part of.
I've never had a scan ever done. Like not once.
We'll do a basic lab panel. You know, I've had
a couple echo, you know, like little stress tests,
things like that. And that's really been about
it. It's very minor. And that's even if we get
some of those. So already finding out we're so
far behind even other places here in the U .S.
as far as what we do. in some of the levels that
we get. But then, so we want to bring that to
every department that we go to. We want to come
to a department. We want to bring a sauna for
each fire station. We want to, we teamed up with
an awesome supplement company that's going to
give some hydration and a sleep aid. It's not
melatonin. It's just, it's GABA. It's awesome
stuff. Take it. It just helps you relax. A little
bit of theanine. Incredible. We teamed up with
Fire Wipes, which is the rapid decon wipes. You
get done with the fire, you wipe down, get all
the hot spots that you can get, boom, like around
your neck, wrists, armpits, wherever you can
kind of wipe down just to get the quick stuff
off. We teamed up with Flame Decon Body Soap
and Shampoo. It's packed with activated charcoal.
It's actually helping pull out a lot of those
toxins out and actually clean yourself. Because
I will say, if the next time you go to a fire,
your captain says, hey, you got 10 minutes to
go decon or whatever, and you shower with Old
Spice, you're probably not doing anything good
for yourself. I'm just saying. It's common knowledge
that Old Spice has more toxins than most of the
fires that we're going to. It smells good, but
it's not good for you. Choose a better soap.
Look into Flame Decon. I'm not getting paid for
that plug at all. That's just a company that
we really believe in. And then, like I said,
teaming up when getting scans. We're just going
to do ultrasounds and cardiac, a little, you
know, Doppler. It's huge, man. Like that's something
that we want to bring, because especially here
in the southeast, we're severely behind, severely
behind. We're still the department that we're
the last departments to to hop on with some of
these schedule changes. We're the last departments
to really have any funding. I mean, if you look
at the states as far as firefighter pay. A lot
of the ones in the southeast right here are amongst
the lowest. Right. And that takes a major hit
on on really everything. And so we saw such a
need. I saw those numbers on my own in my own
life for my own department. And now prayers up.
We've got another guy that's also going through
cancer in my little department praying for him.
He's dominating. He's doing great. But, you know.
That's another guy that now that department's
got to help budget for and accommodate and try
and cover. You would think it would be one of
the utmost priority is keeping us as healthy
as possible because we're really the investment
for the fire department. Our health should be
the investment for the fire department. We go
to fire departments all across the country that
still have their gear in the middle of the bay
getting blasted with diesel fumes, that still
only have one set of gear, that have zero gym
equipment, that, you know, or when they have
a tough call or something like that, the thing,
the foods getting dropped off is donuts and Mountain
Dews. There's no effort to actually. keep that
health and wellness, you know, going and keep
it right. And going back to the recruiting thing,
I think the biggest issue in the fire service
the last decade has been they've spent so much
effort on trying to recruit and zero on retention.
Zero on retention. Congrats. We got you in. It's
year three. You know, you're in the system now.
Do what you want. The departments that seem to
thrive are the ones that keep a steady game plan
for every firefighter they have. They're constantly
keeping them challenged, making sure everything
is good, focusing on, hey, man, thank you for
going and taking these two extra classes that
give you this certain skill set. We're going
to compensate you for that. You are an asset
to our department. You are not just a firefighter,
first responder. Not a jab at them, but you've
taken the effort, you've taken the time to go
and get more skills and be more of an asset to
your community. We're going to compensate you
for it. That to me is the biggest, and I'm about
to get on a soapbox, but that's the biggest downfall
that I've seen in the fire service the last 10
years is they've almost... You've got these guys
that are so laser -focused and want to be the
best firefighters and paramedics they can be,
and they're going to these classes, and they're
still getting paid and treated the exact same
as the dude that is more worried about his lawn
company on his days off than being a firefighter
paramedic. Yeah. Tell me I'm wrong. That's it.
we know the guys that sit there and they think
about ways and going to courses to be the best
medic and firefighter they can be. And then we
think about guys that are like, if I can just
get this job, if I can just mow four more lawns
a week, I'm going to quit this job. Like I don't,
you know, and I'm like, man. Like, we need to
be thinking about retention. We need to be thinking
about awarding that guy who took the time out
of his personal life to go and get this cert
or get this course to be a better asset for the
department. We need to compensate that. We need
to pour into those guys. We need to build leaders.
So many departments out there don't have anything
to invest into the future leaders, right? If
that guy's getting promoted or getting these
classes, he's doing it completely on his own,
like on his off time, downtime at night. I think
the departments that seem to really be thriving
are the ones that are like, hey, man, we've got
plans for you. Tell us, James, what are your
plans? Where do you want to be in five years?
How can we as a department help you get there?
Right. And I wish they could do that. They would
do the same thing. Hey, what are some things
that we could do to make y 'all feel healthier?
Do we can we invest in safer tones? I mean, our
tones are still the the really loud band and
like loud, like you wake up and you're you're
in SVT tones. And I'm like, it's 2026, you know,
like this is crazy. And, you know, those are
things that we can do. that I would say are pretty
simple fixes that we can do to help keep people
healthier, keep people happier, to keep this
profession that we love so much thriving instead
of in 20, 30 years, people wonder what the heck
happened to the fire service as a whole, you
know? Because there are, I was reading an article,
you know, the volunteers are almost non -existent
now. uh across the board it's harder and harder
to get volunteers to do anything and um man that
you know that's crazy because you used to have
dozens of dudes that were like man i got a full
-time job but i still volunteer because i love
it you know and i love helping and i love being
but that that for some reason has gone away as
well that just hurts me it hurts to see it i
think we can fix it i think we just have to change
our focus to be more on retention and what can
we do to keep our guys healthier and treat each
firefighter as an investment and how can we invest
and grow this investment to get not only most
out of it, but to grow them in a way that they
can also build our department and grow our department.
I think that's huge. And in a way, that's kind
of what the DECOM project is wanting to do. We're
wanting to bring some very simple things to the
firehouse that can invest in that day -to -day
health and wellness. I mean, I've learned so
much about sauna use and the benefits of it,
and I've gotten to personally experience the
benefits of it, that to be honest, it doesn't
make sense why there isn't one in every firehouse
in America. You know, not only the anti or the
deconing effect and the detoxifying effect, but
also just the benefits that it has on your heart,
the benefits that it has on, you know, your sleep
and your recovery and the muscle fatigue. So
many things that we can do. There's a benefit
from just sitting in the sauna for a little bit
of time. And so those are, we just put together
a company of things that we feel like. pretty
simple fixes that we can go in and really help
kind of change the mindset on a, on a, on a department.
And what we say is we want to, we want to create
a new standard of what the minimum expectation
of that department providing its firefighters,
good, good gym equipment, saunas, you know, Better
supplementation, things like making sure that
you're hydrated, making sure that you're, you
know, getting the right sleep that you need and
then getting scans and staying ahead of it. I
would have loved and known what my treatment
would have been like if instead of finding 100
bumps in there, we found one. You know, I would
have loved that, but I didn't have that scan
until way too late. And so there's so many things
that we're hitting on, so many things that I'm.
I'm really hoping that us as a fire service can
continue to do it. And like I said earlier, man,
like you bringing that awareness to it, not only
the physical stuff, but the mental battles that
we go through, the things that we see, we have
to be looking out for each other. We have to
be ambassadors for each other because there's
so many people in the public that just really
don't know. And so we have to bring light and
share that education and that knowledge to kind
of get some of these changes knocked out. Sorry,
I can keep talking forever. I apologize about
that. No, no, no, I apologize at all. But just
kind of dovetailing on what you said. This is
one thing that's been really maddening because
I agree with everything you just said. Retention
should be the focus. And if therefore you have
a group of people that really want to stay a
full career, that creates demand at the recruitment
level as well. Because people have told me over
and over again, our greatest recruitment toll
is happy firefighters. Dude, senior firefighters
that still love the job. Tell me, tell me, dude,
when you're sitting at the table. Getting some
knowledge just slammed down your throat from
a couple senior firefighters. Goodness, man,
it's like Christmas, man. You are just chomping
at the bit for them to tell you something else.
And when they are still passionate about their
job, that's amazing. And I've been places where
it seemed like every senior firefighter was ready
to quit or leave. And it was a very toxic feeling.
And so you're 100 % right. Those senior firefighters
being happy and wanting to invest in the new
guys is so key and so pivotal for the growth
of the fire department. The downstream costs,
though, is what's mind -blowing. So just take
the retention crisis, the retention and recruitment
crisis at the moment. Locally here, they crunched
the numbers on a kind of pseudo -study that we're
all a part of. And I think the overtime alone,
if I'm trying to remember now, was something
like $6 ,000, sorry, $6 million, if I'm not mistaken.
And then retention, I just got told the other
day, this department that protects my family,
in five years, and I think they have like a total
of about 400 firefighters on any one time, you
know, not on any, 400 like frontline firefighters
between the three shifts. They have lost 500
firefighters in the last five years. I've seen
it locally as well. I've seen it locally and
not just new guys, not just like one to three
year guys. Like you got 10 year guys stepping
away, you know? And I'll say this, man, I'm not
like bad talking anybody that steps away. You
got to do what's best for your family. You know,
there's a lot of guys that get into this as young
single dudes. And then as you start growing a
family, just like we talked about, like you're
spending a lot of time away from that family.
My biggest priority in my life is being with
my family. The only thing I'll say is so far,
I feel like I've been able to manage the craziness
of the fire schedule and being. a very present
husband and father, but I will be honest and
I'll put this out there to anybody. The minute
that that feels like I'm no longer able to achieve
those goals and I'm not doing, I'm not being
the best husband and father I can be. And that's
taking away. That'll be the time that I do step
away. Like, you know, and I've seen a lot of
guys do that. So I don't have any, any like.
anything negative to say about them. But I've
also seen a lot of guys leave because they're
just like, there's no fixing this. I'm stuck.
I don't feel like I'm being treated like with
any sense of respect. Maybe I don't have as much
purpose as I feel like I have. And that's where
we've really dropped the ball. you know, in that
said department is we, we should have been filling
those guys up with like, Hey man, you're doing
great. I, this is a challenge I have for you.
I think you could really thrive at doing this.
Hey, you know, let's go show these new guys exactly
what we're supposed to be doing and kind of give
those guys some of that leadership opportunity.
I think they would have seen a lot of those guys
stick around. So, yep. You're a hundred percent
right, man. That's super scary. Uh, that, that
amount of, um, loss in just one fire department
in five years, that's, I would say nationwide,
it's probably looking somewhere similar as far
as those numbers go. I remember counting it up
in the last department I was at. We had it up
on the board. We were counting all these names
that we had, and it was just mind -blowing how
many people we had seen come and go in that short
amount of time. Well, there's a price tag attached
to each one of those as well. Not to mention,
like you said, the breaking down of camaraderie,
the loss of experience. But also like for every
new person, this initially was I was told it
was 18, roughly $20 ,000 per recruit that then
walked out. But someone told me recently it was
more like 60 or 70 because you've also got to
factor in all. the time, you know, the time and
a half for the cadre that are teaching these
people, you know, and then, you know, the recruitment
and all that. I mean, the, excuse me, the equipment
and everything else paying into the pensions.
So that's the money for the extra shifts that
you need to front load this. And then that in
turn fixes what you just said. when that balance
between being home and being at work is offset.
And Gainesville, Florida, up the street from
me, I've got their previous union and current
union presidents coming on together. So the one
that spearheaded the move. Can't wait to watch
it. And they're like, it's amazing. Because I'm
ready to go back to work the next shift because
I've spent quality time with my family. I'm well
rested. And now I'm chomping at the bit to go
do another 24 with the men and women that I work
with. That's how it should be. It's not about
not loving the job. It's the opposite. If you
love the job, you fight for conditions to be
home for your family and then operate at the
peak level for those 24 hours when you go back
to the station. That's amazing. Yeah, I've seen
that. Some of the departments doing $48 .96,
$24 .72. I mean, just incredible like how they're
– and you know that extra day or two is just
literally saving their lives, man. I mean, I
know this. Whenever I get a four -day or – and
my schedule is really interesting. We do four
on – like 48 on, 48 off for four. and then we
get four days off. And then every four or every
three months, I'm sorry, those two four days
bump up next to each other and we get eight days
off. And man, you get a four day and you feel
so refreshed. You feel ready to like kind of
go. So the fact that they get to feel like that
every single shift, I'm pretty envious of it.
Like that's pretty amazing. And hopefully we
can get there someday. I know. Not bad talking
to Department of Defense, but we're typically
the last to do anything like that. There's a
lot more pencil pushing that has to happen for
us to get any of those things than some of the
other places. But, yeah, I would say that across
the board, that needs to be the new standard,
is adding that extra shift to cover and give
everybody an extra day. That's huge. And you
save so much because now you're not having as
many vacation call -outs, sick call -outs. I
mean, you're saving a fortune. Yeah. The $48
.96 is still a 56 -hour work week, so I wouldn't
put that in the same category. Yeah, my bad.
No, no, no. You're fine. You're fine. It still
seems good compared to what you're working, so
I totally get it. Yeah, yes. But yeah, I hope
that the Municipal Fire Service can then... you
know, blaze a path for the federal firefighters
because I just had a Hawaiian one on, um, not
too long ago. It was MMA fighter as well. Um,
and he was doing 24, 24 ongoing, like unending.
So, you know, we need to fix it for everyone
else. But like you said, yeah. How do you do
that? Like you're never not going, you're never
not going home or driving to shift. Like it's
insane. Well, you're also, you think about it,
you get off at 8 AM. So you're never actually
getting a day off. Because that second day, midnight
to 8 a .m., you're working. So you never get
a day off. So, yeah, there's so much to fix.
And I think, sadly, focusing on the financial
loss is really what's going to move some people.
The health of their people and the performance
should be enough. But if nothing else, for every
cancer survivor that you have costs $1 .2 million,
hopefully you'll be like, well, wait a second,
shift work is a carcinogen. maybe yeah if we
stop working on people to death the the cancer
rates will lower because perfect example the
last place i worked protected disney world so
well sprinkled that we basically never had fires
like almost never and they had cancer kill so
many of their people so if it was just carcinogens
then they'd be the healthiest fire department
on the planet But the shift work and the numbers
of calls that they had throughout the night because
they abused their 911 system. You know, lo and
behold, you have a lot of these people dying,
you know, and I would argue that the shift work
is a huge amplifier of the cancer issue that
we have. Yeah, I was pulling something up. The
number is, I think now that a firefighter is
9 % more likely to develop. form of cancer than
any other profession. And how much of that is
just going off of the fact that we're not sleeping
regularly. Like we, you know, the day -to -day
exposures, I think of like the diesel exhaust
fumes is something I always think about. The
gear that we wear, the station uniforms that
we wear with PFAS, things like that. Even the
stuff that we cook with, you know, not to mention
the foods we eat are still horrible. And so I
just think about so many of those things and
I'm like, man, we've got to, that awareness has
got to be raised and it needs to be common knowledge.
And hopefully just by doing things like this,
having conversations like this and getting in
front of the right people, we can. continue making
that change. It's just happening way too slowly.
And also, you talk about mental health all the
time. I really do love your show. And you talk
about mental health a lot. And dude, you give
me a couple weeks of really cruddy sleep and
I'm one of the most... optimistic and happy people
i know and i'm in the dumps i'm having a hard
time mentally and we're seeing it in droves as
well as firefighter suicide i mean just at insane
numbers and uh so much so many of the times we're
like well oh man he's he he was always a black
cloud like he always had really bad calls you
know that that I'm not taking that away from
anything, but how much of it was the fact that
he was just absolutely beat down and exhausted
and his body was so inflamed and so fatigued
that your mind really does start playing tricks
on you in that point. And a rested body, a rested
mind can really work and navigate and compensate
incredibly well. But when we're sleeping, And
then in working way too much, too much time,
you know, throughout the week, throughout the
year. And it's taking a toll on everything else
that we're doing, our family that we love, how
we eat, how we do anything. No. Yeah, it's going
to take an absolute toll. And you're going to
see the number of of psychiatric, you know, incidents
go up and suicide even go up. It's just it's
heartbreaking and it needs to end. And, uh, hopefully
I can't wait to see some of the statistics that
they see from these shift from these schedule
changes and just in what, what in a year, how
much they saved as far as vacation and sick time,
how much they saved as far as, you know, how,
how the firefighters give us a pullback of like
how they felt going into each shift. How'd you
feel leaving each shift? Did you feel like you
got more from your work day? Cause. I know this
man, when we were working overtimes all the time,
you got way, way, a lot less done in your day.
Like the station you, you were, I mean, there
were days where they're like, Hey, I know everybody's
like super tired and on their like fourth overtime
in a row. We're running calls. Make sure your
truck is checked off and we'll do dinner. six,
you know, and that was it. Like everybody was
just in the room sleeping and that's no way to
go about it, man. We want to like show, we want
to show up feeling like we're ready to get after
it. And, and, but when you're grinding like that,
it's terrible. So, um, yeah, man, I mean, golly,
we just hit on so many things. Uh, but I, I really
can't thank you enough for let me share and,
and, and have this conversation with you. And
I think you're doing an incredible job of bringing
some awareness to these things. You're very well
-knowledged in that. And like I said, with the
DECOM project, we're so excited about some of
the things that we're bringing in. We're starting
right there in South Georgia, Southeast Georgia,
and trying to... you know, kind of climb down
into Northeast Florida. But the goal is to go
as big as this thing will go. But every time
I'll tell you this, every time we have a meeting
or I talk to you about it, I always say our goal
really is that we work ourselves out of the need
for our nonprofit, that we raise enough awareness,
that we go in and we set the standard enough.
We get in front of the right people to where
what we're bringing is now just that's an established
norm. And at that point, we can kind of dust
our hands and know that we made that impact.
I will say I feel like we're unfortunately a
long ways away from that being the case. So we're
ready to work as hard as we can to get these
things done. But that is our goal. And we all
talk about that, like that if we do this well
enough, we should work ourselves out of a job.
Right. And so. Yeah, man. Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it. This is incredible. I
can't wait to hop on and talk to you some more
down the road and we can kind of compare some
of the things we've learned and all the crazy
stuff that's going on, you know, between then
and now. And man, I'm very blessed. And I think
it's been really cool that our paths have crossed
this way. So thank you. Well, thank you. One
thing before I let you go then. If people listening
want to either be a recipient of the Decom Project
or they want to help, they want to contribute,
where are the best places to find you? Yeah,
man. So we're super simple. Our website is thedecomproject
.com. D -E -C -O -N, like short for decontaminate.
I mean, you can go on there. You can see a really
simple website. It looks great, like super cool.
Donation page is right there. You can donate.
Also, my information is all over there. Man,
I'm on social media a lot. I do daily devotionals
for firefighters. I try and share and be as open
as possible. If you have any questions, you need
to have anybody like pray for you, talk with
you, anything, hit me up that like you have my
number right there. Also on there, we have a
message board. If you're an apartment that's
like, hey, some of this is looking like, something
we want to do. Obviously, we're starting right
here where we're at, but we'd love to get you
in the system. Like, we're doing this completely
for free. We're not charging that department
anything. The only thing that we may ask is like,
hey, show us some people that we can get in touch
with to raise funds to actually help your department
and get us in touch. And then I'll do all the
legwork. Like, I'll call these people. I'll tell
them what our goals are, what we're trying to
do. One thing I have said is if you're doing
any kind of cool events or fundraisers and, you
know, you need somebody to tag on or help out
or, you know, share about it, like the Decom
Project will gladly do that. That's kind of how
we're trying to get our name out there. We are
100 percent not in it to make any money. We are
just trying to get raise awareness and get into
these departments and show them that. We can
give them some tools to help combat some of the
cancer and cardiac, which unfortunately seem
to be the two killers of the fire service. And
we want to get ahead of that. And we're starting
one department at a time. So please reach out,
show your support, follow us on Instagram at
The Decom Project. We post on there a lot. a
bunch of really cool guys that we've teamed up
with as well. I mean, just some really cool stuff
going on. And so I know this is kind of a crazy
conversation about the fire service, but I truly
do believe that the best is yet to come. We are
taking baby steps in the right direction. It's
just going to take a lot of time. We've gone.
We've had a crazy route. It's kind of been some
kind of like a roller coaster, all crazy. But
we're really starting to kind of figure it out.
And the passion for the fire service is really,
really high right now. And so we just got to
keep getting new people that are fired up. And
just like we talked about, keep the old guys
fired up so that they can teach the new guys
the cool stuff. And I think this is the greatest
job on the planet. And James. the stuff you're
doing. This is so awesome, man. Thank you. And,
uh, yeah, guys, I appreciate it from the bottom
of my heart. Thank you.