This episode is brought to you by Thorne, the
industry leader in nutritional solutions. Now,
Thorne is actually trusted by eight US national
teams and championship teams in the NFL, NBA,
and Major League, as well as recently becoming
the official sports performance nutrition partner
of the UFC. So when it comes to supplements,
the tactical athlete space and the athletic space
need two things. We need efficacy, meaning the...
Products do what they say they're going to do
on the label. And then we need to trust the fact
that we are not going to fail either athletic
drug tests or work -related drug tests. Now,
Thorne has actually been around since the 1980s,
where they were used by physicians and hospitals
for nutritional supplements for the patients.
They were so successful that athletic teams and
even special operations teams reached out to
them and they started supplying them as well.
Very recently, they actually opened their doors
to the general public. Now, what sets Thorne
apart is they manufacture their own products
in a state -of -the -art NSF certified facility
in South Carolina. They use only the purest possible
ingredients formulated with no stearates or arbitrary
fillers in the cleanest manufacturing process.
Most of you listening come from profession where
it can take its toll physically and mentally.
And many of us are not able to bolster our nutrition
purely with the food that we eat. And that's
where supplementation comes in. So if you're
ready to maximize your health and performance,
visit thorne .com, T -H -O -R -N -E .com. Take
a short product quiz to be paired up with the
perfect health and fitness supplements. And for
you, the audience, if you use the code BTS10,
behind the shield 10, BTS10, you will get 10
% off your first order. And if you want to learn
even more about Thorne, go to episode 323 of
Behind the Shield podcast. And you will hear
my interview with Wes Barnett and Joel Totoro
from Thorne. This episode is sponsored by 5 .11,
a company that I've used for well over a decade
and continue to use to this day. And 5 .11 is
offering you guys, the audience of the Behind
the Shield podcast, a discount on every purchase
you make with them. Before we get to that code,
I want to highlight a couple of products that,
again, I personally use today. One of the most
impressive products they just released is their
Rush Backpack 2 .0. Now, for many of you, whether
you're going to the fire station, the police
station, whether you're traveling with your family,
whether you're taking training courses, we have
to fly, we have to drive, we have to take trains.
And I have to say, I own multiple backpacks,
many of 5 .11's different ones. But as far as
a day pack, this one was the most impressive.
There are so many different compartments. The
way it sits on your back is incredibly comfortable.
If you are a concealed carry person, there's
also a spot for a weapon. So they've thought
of multiple, multiple things that a man or woman
would have to do on a daily basis. That is in
addition to all of the products that I talk about
a lot. Their uniforms fit for men or fit for
women in the first responder professions. The
footwear that they offer, whether it's the Norris
sneaker or the Atlas system that is designed
for foot health and therefore knees and back
and hips and shoulders and neck. As a civilian,
I live in a lot of their clothes as well. Their
jeans stretch. You can actually squat down in
them. We live in Florida here, so I wear a lot
of their shorts, which again, very, very lightweight
material. You can get it wet and it will dry
almost immediately. And then moving to the fitness
and tactical space, I used to have just a regular
weight vest. Recently, I switched to a 5 '11
vest and actually bought ballistic plates as
well. My thinking was simply, if I'm going to
have a vest, why not have one that protects me
as well? And that tack vest is trusted by law
enforcement all around the country. So I mentioned
they were going to offer you a discount code.
So if you go to 511tactical .com and enter the
code SHIELD15, S -H -I -E -L -D -1 -5, you will
get 15 % off, not just that one purchase, but
every time you visit their store. And if you
want to learn more about 5 .11, their mission,
their products, then listen to episode 338 of
the Behind the Shield podcast with the CEO and
founder, Francisco Morales. Welcome to episode
467 of Behind the Shield podcast. As always,
my name is James Geering, and this week it is
my absolute honor to welcome on the show Tori
and Anthony Gonzalez. Now this is going to be
the first part of a two -part series I'm doing
on the attacks in Parkland, Florida at Marjory
Stoneman Douglas High School. As many of you
that have followed the podcast for a while know,
I did a similar thing on the Pulse attacks a
few months ago. And the whole goal is to get
the voices, the actual men and women, and in
this case, children that were involved in the
incident. What breaks my heart when we have an
event in schools, especially, is it becomes almost
immediately a media frenzy and a political polarization
on gun control or pro -guns. And the actual voices
and the trauma of the people involved are pretty
much discarded. for these conversations to be
had. So their stories are lost. Their ability
to process and grieve is pushed aside so that
cameras can report on the event and politicians
can kind of push their agendas. So I wanted to
tell the story of the people. Now, Anthony and
Tori's story is incredibly powerful for a couple
of reasons. Firstly, Tori was at the high school
as a student. Her boyfriend, Joaquin Oliver,
was one of the 17 murdered. Tori's father, Anthony,
was one of the responding firefighters and was
acting as battalion chief that day, so was one
of the first officers on scene. So you have a
double parallel. You have responder and victim
slash patient, and then you also have father
and daughter. So you can imagine how harrowing
that must have been. So learning from the children,
the kids that were at the school, learning from
the responders, we can take away lessons. We
can hear the stories of the people in the school
and we can take that human element and apply
it to our own communities as parents, as responders,
as teachers, and hopefully prevent or at least
be prepared for. an event like that happening,
God forbid, in our own towns or cities or counties.
So before we get to that conversation, as I say
every week, please just take a moment, go to
whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe
to the show, leave feedback, but most importantly,
leave a rating. I don't do this for some sort
of accolades. Every single five -star rate in
the podcast gets, it elevates it on the kind
of virtual ladder, therefore making it easier
to find, more visible for others. And this is
a free library. for you, planet Earth. And so
all I ask is that you help share these incredible
men and women's stories so I can get them to
everyone else who needs to hear them, because
I know many of these episodes will save lives.
So with that being said, I introduce to you Tori
and Anthony Gonzalez. Enjoy. I just want to say
thank you. We're sitting here and everyone listening,
yes, there is a soundtrack in the back. There's
not a band playing. We're just in a quiet corner,
jungle out the window. It's beautiful. But yes,
there is a soundtrack playing. But we're in Fort
Lauderdale. I'm sitting with Anthony and Tori.
Thank you so much for trusting me to talk to
you today. Oh, you're very welcome. All right.
So I want to start at the very, very beginning.
So that means... Your dad. So, Anthony, tell
me where you were born and then tell me about
your family dynamic, what your parents did and
how many siblings. Well, I was born in Long Island,
New York, Smithtown area where I grew up. And
a total of five of us in the family. And the
dynamic was my dad was always a worker and my
mom did work for a little while, but it got to
a point that I can't remember because I can only
remember back so far. But it became a while where
she was, you know, she was the caretaker of the
family, if you will. Took care of everybody like
most moms do, you know. So that's what I remember
a lot about her. So the dynamic was the caring
and whatnot and the dad always working. So I
don't know if you can kind of get that perspective
of that's what I was kind of used to. And, you
know, my brothers, we were all three brothers
and two sisters. So the three of us kind of did
our thing, my oldest brother and whatnot, normal
pranks. you know, in fights, you know, you got
that kind of stuff. And, you know, my sister
and my oldest sister, they kind of did that thing
too. So it wasn't, I don't know, kind of point
of dynamic of them. I mean, we were just being
typical kids, you know, growing up. And I don't
remember anything crazy happening drastic wise
or, you know, it just seemed to me like a normal
childhood. Right now, you're obviously very fit
even now. We seem to become similar age. So back
then, what kind of sports were you playing as
a kid? Well, I was a little bit of a shot kid.
The shine is still kind of there today, but if
you would have seen me then and see what I am
now, you wouldn't think I'm the same person.
You're an extrovert now. Maybe that's what it
is. You grow up, you learn to deal with some
things. But back then, I tried out Little League
for a little while because I loved baseball.
I still love baseball to this day. That was where
I was at, you know, playing in the yard with
my Tonka trucks and, you know, I was a boy's
boy playing in the yard with matchbox cars, this
whole thing. So, you know, it was baseball was
really the only thing that I got into. I did
a little bit of high school football and, I mean,
during recess kind of thing, but not much stuff
other than that. Right. Now, what about career
aspirations? Were you influenced by any responders
in family and or were you even dreaming of being
a firefighter as a kid? Well… To be honest, going
through high school, actually when I first started
high school, I wanted to be a heavy equipment
operator. So, that was kind of my drive. But
living in a town of nothing but volunteer fire
departments, you know, you'd hear the whistle
go off. I would, at the same time, would chase
fire trucks. See when I hear them coming and
we'd go, you know, on my bike and go ahead and
chase them down to see what they were doing.
So, there was, you know, that little subtle interest
at times. But, you know, my desire was to be
a heavy equipment operator. Even on my high school
ring, there's a bulldozer on it. Really? So,
but I get to do that today, believe it or not.
It kind of comes back, circle back into me doing
operating some heavy equipment that I do today.
And when we get to that point, I can touch into
what I do with that. But I think the neighborhood
might, the lady, or excuse me, the gentleman
that lived across the street from me was the
old ex -fire chief of my fire department at the
time where I joined. But I did join the volunteer
up there. That's what kickstarted the career.
His son was down the street on the corner. and
then the guy to the left of him, if you're facing
his house, was a volunteer, so he would always
leave with the blue light on, going to the firehouse,
and you hear the whistle go off, so you know
there was a call. It was there. Maybe that was
a little seed that just started getting planted,
and it just grew. I'm the only one in my family
that's a firefighter. Now, I always ask volunteers
this. Some people volunteer, and they live in
BFE, as people like to call it, and it's totally
justified. One -stop sign, a post office, and
50 houses. One square mile was my town. But what
I find in the U .S. a lot of times now is that
you'll find volunteer fire departments in areas
that are very densely populated where we probably
should have a career department. What was the
dynamic? What was the kind of layout where you
were? Pretty much similar to that. Like I said,
we're one square mile. I don't remember the population
by any means, but it wasn't a lot of people.
Long Island, where I'm from, there was nothing
but volunteer fire departments. So, some areas
were a little more populated than others, but
it's the culture, I guess you could say, for
the Long Island area. As you get a little closer
to the city, where you'd have that transition
to FDNY and obviously the city firemen versus
the volunteers, which is still strong today.
So, I guess that's just the neighborhood. Even
if it's grown, they're still going to stay volunteer,
to my knowledge. Now, they have trouble responding
to calls, just like some volunteer fire departments.
I guess for us, Coral Springs, we were a volunteer
for a while when I first moved here. So tell
me about that. I moved here and, like I said,
I started in Nesconcet, was where my fire service
career kind of kicked off. And that was about
a year and a half, almost two years of a volunteer
up there, and then we moved here. My father wanted
a new start, so we came down here and then come
to find out. We moved here in 91. It wasn't but
for a few years later that I found out. Because
like you just mentioned, you would think the
town that we lived in was paid because of the
size and all the amount of people that we had.
We had 1 ,000 people in there. So when I moved
here, it wasn't in my mind that I was always
told or known to be a career -oriented county.
So I come to find out a few years later that
it was volunteer. So I joined in 95 to five years
of volunteer to getting hired in 2000 to where
I am today. So you volunteered for the county,
then got hired for the city? Actually, I volunteered
for Coral Springs, and then they made the transition
of paid rescues, which is an ambulance for some,
depending on where you are, and then to the full
paid fire department in the year 2000. Beautiful.
Well, I'm talking to Chris. I already have spoken
to Chris and Frank. I have to re -speak to Chris
and Frank because of a technical error. But,
you know, they have a... You know, an interesting
story within that department, within that city
that I think a lot of people should mirror. You're
in training now. So when you look back in hindsight,
what was your training like and what were the
fitness standards like when you got hired? It
was a little dynamic. We volunteered because
it's volunteer slash to the career side of things.
Training was the station I happened to be at,
which is Station 71, has a training tower there.
Or scheduled nights, which, forgive me, I can't
remember off the top of my head. I want to say
it was Wednesday nights we would go and train.
And I don't want to say there was some old guys
there, full -on beards. You know, it was a definitely
different atmosphere back then, volunteer versus
career. You know, career has a lot more stringent
rules, no facial hair, you know, for reasons,
the policies and the PA, et cetera, et cetera,
stuff like that. But there was a variety of,
jeez. I'm trying to think about some of the people
that I'm dealing with because some people were
out of shape. But because it's – if you want
to go – maybe I should ask the question to you
is you want to talk about volunteer side of it
or you want to talk about the career or just
blending it together because volunteer was different.
Any schmo, no offense, could fill out an application,
pass the test or whatnot and come on in and volunteer.
I mean the intent is there. So I say schmo. I
don't mean disrespect to schmo. It's just people
want to volunteer some time. You can meet certain
qualifications. You can become a volunteer. Obviously,
career is a little bit more stringent. And being
an instructor for a while and seeing people develop,
you wonder how some people do it. But to get
back to your question, I guess I totally went
off the topic there. The training has obviously
improved. It's 100%. I mean, from what it was
to what it is today, the care of the individual,
making sure that you're – you know, you're healthy
on all levels. You know, there's a lot more investment
in the individual. Maybe that's the long or the
short of it. Sorry for dragging it out. No, you
didn't drag it out. I think that's one of the...
A lot of things in my mind to try to process
it all and think about a lot of things and what
to say, what not to say without upsetting anybody.
Oh, we also got the guy serenading us from the
speaker. Yes, that's got a guy too. No, but it's
one of those things that is a thing. Like, who
is going to show up? to rescue your child is
it going to be someone who may be volunteer maybe
career who's taken their job seriously and is
in shape and is trained and is an environment
that's enabled them to thrive or like you said
is it career or volunteer who hasn't been held
to a standard who is deconditioned who has a
giant beard where they can't even get a seal
on the mask you know whatever it is um so you
know it's a hard thing to navigate because In
reality, the standard should be the standard,
but it is harder to ask people that you're not
paying a penny to show up to be at that standard.
Conversely, I find it very hard to understand
why we can't ask people that we pay to be firefighters
to hold a standard, and that happens in a lot
of places around the world too. I will say that
our organization, for being a volunteer, we were
very professional for volunteer. We were uniforms.
We would try to set a certain tone as professionals,
but they had very high standards. I don't want
to make it seem that people didn't. It's just
a different classification of people that you
would attract, I guess you could say, volunteer
versus career. Again, I feel like I put some
people down. I don't want anybody to take it
that way. There was a lot of dedication. You've
got to look at a volunteer person. versus somebody
of a career they're doing it for nothing that's
got to speak volumes of their spirit and you
know their personality what they're willing to
do for nothing absolutely yeah i had a bunch
of guys from canada that on here that are all
volleys and they're putting out content and training
all the time and you know they have their own
podcast i mean it's it's incredible so you have
that that diverse spectrum from you know people
who are probably a liability on a fire to some
volunteers that you would choose any day over
some career people that don't take their job
seriously. I can see that. Yeah. All right. Well,
let's bring Tory into the picture. So tell me
when you became a father. Well, when we were
born? No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.
December 18, 2000. We're not too far from my
birthday, which is New Year's Eve, so the whole
world celebrates me for a little while. But it
was Tory. Paint it back a little bit. I married
my wife and she had three children before Tori
came along. So we had three, you know, people
poke fun or I even poke fun a little bit where
it's Insta family, just add Anthony, you know,
and, you know, my wife at the time wasn't able
to get pregnant. So, and I didn't care. It wasn't,
you know, I was very happy with what I had and,
or what I have, excuse me. And. You know, I was
going to take it. She's like, I can't have kids.
She didn't want to marry me, the whole thing.
So, you know, lo and behold, a little while later,
after dating for a little while, she wants me
to come home for whatever reason. And I didn't
think anything of it. Then she left the little
thing out and said she wanted to show me. And,
you know, I kind of blew it off because that
was the last thing on my mind because of what?
She had a medical condition and she wasn't able
to get pregnant normally. So, lo and behold,
she shows it to me. you know? And it was a little
bit of a, you know, I don't want to say tiff,
but there was, she was a little disappointed
that I didn't come home because it was exciting.
But again, it was the last thing on my mind.
So, you know, I still, maybe there's a little
guilt there that I have that I kind of brushed
it off a little bit. I probably shouldn't have,
but again, and then lo and behold, so with that,
it was kind of, we was treating it as a miracle
child because, you know, she was not supposed
to happen. Yeah. But she was coming in this world
regardless. Amazing. So that's where we're at.
I mean, this is where we are today. Obviously,
we'll talk a little bit more about it, but I
don't want to steal her thunder. No, well, let's
swing over to Tori. So one thing I've only had
really perspective once, and that's my own son
talking about what it's like to be a child in
a firefighter family. So tell me about that growing
up. What was that like for you, that family dynamic
that probably a lot of your friends didn't really
get to experience, good and bad? I let my friends
in a little bit. They got to sit in the truck
or do whatever. They loved that my dad was a
firefighter. I always went around from as young
as I can remember. My dad's a hero. My dad saves
lives. I was boasting to everyone. My dad's so
cool. He does this. He does that. He's a hero.
Literally, that's all that I would say about
my dad. And I would cry every morning that he
left because he'd be gone for so long. Definitely
a daddy's girl. But I've always been proud. I
think that's the biggest thing. I always held
pride in knowing that not everyone can say that
their family literally saves lives for a living.
Now, what are some of the things you remember
where he wasn't able to be there? Because I think
you talked about guilt. One of the guilt elements
of being a mother or a father in the fire service,
I think, is that Christmas is a very dynamic
day. It might be December 26th. Is 25th your
birthday too? 31st. New Year's Eve. Okay, that's
when you said about people celebrating. So we
have that, like Father's Day, all those things.
What are some of the things you remember where
he wasn't able to be there? And maybe you were
even disappointed because I think it's important
to hear from the family the sacrifices that you
guys make. It was definitely hard sometimes,
but I can remember as the years went on, the
holidays would shift that he would be there or
not be there. Christmas is like his favorite
day ever. Mine too. Ever. Like our whole house
is lights, lights, lights, lights. The whole
neighborhood is like, who lives there? So I feel
like I can remember him. I feel like there was
only, what, one or two years that you were not
there on Christmas? Well, yeah, Christmas. That's
the one I can remember. The shifts were rotating,
but it's hard to actually to sit here and even
for me to think about stuff. I guess I think
about some of the things that I missed on her
level as far as maybe her first steps and things
like that for being at work. I can't remember
that. It's unique for us to come to holidays
because my wife is Jewish. I'm Catholic, so we
celebrate everything. Yeah, why not? So there's
really, you know, it's not to miss. I mean, there
is a variety. So, yeah, there's some days that
I was there and some days I'm not. I can't pinpoint
one particular day. Very simply, though, the
most that I can remember when you asked that
is like maybe him not being at dinner sometimes.
And that's where it's like a weird feeling at
the table where he's always at the head and then
he's not there. Yeah. That's the first thing
that came to mind when you asked. But I think
we made up for a lot of that too. I try to. You
know, we celebrate holidays and we'll change
them. You know, instead of celebrating the day
of, we do some stuff the day before. I mean,
it's still to try to make up for that. I mean,
that's, you know, the nature of our business
when we have to work the schedules and, you know,
we don't get time off and, you know, we don't
shut down like police or whatnot. We have to
work, you know. other than a vacation day or
a swap or a shift trade or whatever you want
to call it. That's the only way you get those
days off. Dial a Kelly, they call it. You get
some trouble for calling it on a holiday. Well,
Tori, with you, same as I asked you that. So
firstly... school age, what about sports? Were
you playing any sports? Were you artistic? You
know, what were your passions? I was always very
artistic. It took me a long time to actually
call myself an artist, but I was definitely drawing
and painting from a young age. The only sport
I really got into was lacrosse, which I actually
really enjoyed in middle school and high school,
but I stopped playing because girls can be, you
know, a little mean. What? Oh, yeah, yeah. But...
I stopped that for a reason. I'm an artist at
heart and I did that my entire life. That's all
I can remember doing. Don't forget cheerleading.
Oh, I was a cheerleader. I forget about that.
Have you suppressed it? Yeah, I don't even. But
the cheerleading for her was very active because
she was a flyer. Oh, the acrobatic cheerleading.
How did I forget that? Because I'm not a cheerleader
at heart, but I did. I was pretty good. All of
our kids did cheerleading, so every one of my
girls. 12, 13 years of cheerleading. I was a
cheer dad. Sorry. No, you are a cheer dad. That's
what I was. He didn't miss games. That's something.
He did not miss games. That's athletic wise.
Between that and lacrosse. Thank you for reminding
me. Yes, I did that for like 15 years. I was
a cheerleader for a long time. That's a substantial
amount to not mention. Oh my gosh. It just wasn't
my favorite time. i did it it was tough i mean
yeah yeah i'll keep going i'll let you go sorry
no i'm okay on that so earlier like middle school
early early high school what about career aspirations
for you i went all over the place um but they
were all in the same theme of healing that's
always been my thing is giving back um when i
was younger maybe 10 10 years old i had a pretty
major surgery um of the cervical spine where
oh really i had a intramedullary tumor removed
like vaporized they had to like remove bones
put them back put hard wire took the vertebrae
took them and had to put them back in and put
plates in there she had to learn how to walk
again it was a nightmare yeah so waking up like
paralyzed and not knowing that i have to relearn
how to walk have to relearn how to feed myself
and do all these things uh I remember my nurses
the most and that was from then on I was like
you know what I really want to work with kids
I want to be a pediatric nurse I want to be that
person that makes someone smile when they're
going through a hard time because I I remember
Sheila Sheila my favorite nurse because she just
made that time so much better so much easier
um being away from home too we were in uh Joe
DiMaggio uh not excuse me Johns Hopkins in Baltimore
Oh, wow. That's where the surgery was done. So
we were there for, what, two weeks you were there?
I remember being there the entire summer somewhere.
Well, it was there because then we came back
home, and it was Joe DiMaggio back home's rehab
center. So it was, yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. But
I mention that because I went back to the cheerleading
field in a wheelchair to, like, learn the routine,
just to sit there and watch what was going on.
I went to school with a walker a couple times.
Anyway, it led me to knowing that I have. that
strength and that power to give to someone else
um from then on it was like okay well maybe i
want to be a therapist because i was in therapy
from sixth grade on and and maybe i want to do
this and that and maybe i want to be a vet or
maybe i want to then it became art therapy maybe
i want to be an art therapist because i love
art and i also want to help people and now i'm
a yoga teacher i'm a reiki practitioner and i'm
an artist where i create healing physical healing
tools so i'm i kind of put a bunch of it together
but always always always my goal was to give
back and to do what i can for other people so
question you had the surgery at 10 yes what mentally
and physically what was that journey like from
i'm assuming you cheerleaded cheer led is that
the past prior to the surgery what was that journey
like to actually being able to fly again i mean
that's a pretty traumatic surgery in a very dangerous
place and to get back to that that's a hell of
a journey it's crazy that that trauma has been
pushed aside because of the bigger trauma and
i'm still looking back sometimes knowing that
i've not process that at 10 years old um but
i do remember specific moments like i remember
the first time getting back up in the air i can
see it in my head right now like getting up there
was just a half it was just a simple thing but
i was like holy i'm not gonna say you can say
whatever you want by the way just just in case
it comes out you could i usually do so that's
what i was like holy shit i really just did that
and it was another moment of just being so proud
uh but Definitely difficult. I can remember sitting
in the hospital, unable to even sit up on my
own and just seeing my mom crying on the floor,
you know, next to the bed. And like that for
me, like that's something that I still have to
process because as a kid, I'm just like, mom,
like I'm trying my hardest. Like, why are you
sad? But I just know that it was all love, but
definitely a physical toll. It was terrifying
to not know if I was going to walk again. If
I was going to have to use a walker or a wheelchair,
I did use a wheelchair for a long time. I went
home with it. After being a cheerleader, after
doing all these things, I'm like, what happened
to my legs? What happened to my neck? What is
this? But really, it just showed me my strength.
I'm constantly in my life being reminded of how
strong I am from a young age, so I come back
to gratitude for that. I can talk about the hard
stuff for a long time, but I don't need to because
I really see the value in that experience. Yeah.
Now, how much value do you give to gratitude?
I'll preface this question I put up. I like to
post a lot of positive things, not blindly positive
with a message, not kind of a real -world positivity.
one i posted the other day someone said and it
was like two or three people that joined into
this little thread and i don't respond to this
but it was just interesting watching i got accused
i've never heard this term before of toxic positivity
that is a thing but i don't believe that you
do it go ahead yeah so you know but again it
was like for this particular thing it wasn't
at all but the point of that post was when you
are truly in a state of gratitude, and I'm not
saying it's easy to get there, but when you're
in a state of gratitude, I personally think that
it's impossible to be anxious, and it's impossible
to be depressed, because whatever's going on
in your life, you're sitting on that beach, looking
out at the vast ocean, seagull shits on your
head, whatever happens, but you're in the moment.
At that moment, I think that's where we need
to return. And we're so distracted by so many
things. So tell me about gratitude and how you
found that kind of realization within yourself.
This is my whole, this is like my world put one
word on it. It's gratitude. Genuinely, that is
if I'm having a panic attack or feeling like
I'm going to get there or I'm just overwhelmed.
For me, I could just look at a single tree and
say. I'm grateful that this exists that like
I could go into so much on the gratitude but
seriously it always brings me back to the present
moment and that for me is really important because
through everything we've gone through it's so
easy to live in the past or to worry about the
future but you really only have this one moment
you really this one moment where we're sitting
here at this table this is all we have we don't
even have 10 minutes ago no or 10 minutes from
now we have right now so why be anywhere but
here and I think gratitude does that for me every
single day I start my morning and I sit outside
in my backyard and I look at the trees and I
look at the lake and I say I'm grateful to be
here regardless of the struggles yes I'm still
struggling with depression but in that moment
I get what you're saying that there's no way
I could even be crying and say you know what
I'm really grateful that I have the ability to
experience this emotion like I'm human and this
is this is an amazing moment to cry to release
this pain you know I find gratitude in every
single space that I can it is my life force yeah
yes literally that's everything to me and I found
it through all of this pain really because losing
my best friend I always remind myself every time
I get sad that oh he's not here oh he's not here
I say but he was but I did get to spend that
time I had every second that I did and without
that I wouldn't be here so that is always that's
it gratitude and it's so powerful as well because
um i was talking to a friend of mine the other
day interviewing him and uh there's another friend
of mine who lost his son as an infant he got
pediatric cancer and passed away there's another
friend of mine that i interviewed that had a
similar thing i think his son was three when
he passed if i've got that right i still can
see their faces i know their names i knew how
they are because they lived on the organic matter
that we are i know joaquin's name because of
the story that that happened after you know so
and even with the crying when i went through
my divorce i was a single dad it was you know
i didn't experience what you did but as is we
have to be careful we can't compare traumas i
remember leaning into the crying i would deliberately
turn on those songs Because I knew once I was
done crying, you can only cry for so long. I
challenge anyone out there, try crying for a
month. It's not going to happen. There's a certain
point where you're just done. So yeah, even like
you said, the experience of that release, once
you were done with that moment of grief, there
was that kind of uptick again that you could
kind of take a deep breath and be like, all right,
I see you. I feel it now. That's an entirely
different conversation that I have a lot is how
important it is to express. Like so many people
are afraid of. crying or afraid of being angry
and it's so necessary as a human being to appreciate
the range of emotions that we have to allow that
because where else is it going to go if you're
happy all the time you're really not you're really
not yeah and there's no contrast to it i mean
it sounds you know the cliche thing what there's
no light without darkness but it's true as an
artist you know that better than anyone yes how
can we see shade if we don't know what dark is
yep yeah all right well anthony i want to get
to the preparation, the prior, what Coral Springs
did well, the interaction between FD and PD,
because I think it's an important thing. Before
we do, pre -Valentine's Day, tell me about Joaquin.
Tell me about what an amazing man. Tell me about
how you fell in love through face paint. Oh,
gosh. You fell in love with me first. He did
love you. I actually just, I read a poem to my
friend yesterday about this, but the second that
I met this kid, it was like, there's something
in you that's in me. Like, we just, we saw each
other as reflections. Really, like, I don't want
to get too otherworldly, but literally meeting
him made me question my existence. on this planet.
And I remember getting visions of like, do people
come from stars? Do certain people come from
this star and they're meant to meet? And it was
like, I'm 15 years old and I'm sitting here thinking
about this is my soulmate. Before I even knew
that I had those feelings for him, I just knew
that he was my person. I knew that this is someone
that's going to be here. This is someone that's
supposed to be here. And I never had that feeling
before where it was like, this is meant to happen
right now. And it was instant. It was like, I
see you. I know who you are. In your eyes, I
can see me. And it was a very crazy experience.
Unreal. And he knew that too. It was like we
didn't even have to say it. So when we actually
did get together, I remember him saying, well,
I was sitting trying to have the conversation
like, I don't like the word boyfriend, girlfriend.
That's gross to me. I don't want to say that.
And I didn't know how to say that to him without
offending him. And there was one day, he's just
sitting there, he's like, you're not my girlfriend.
And I was like, thank you, yeah, yeah. And he's
like, you're my soulmate. And I said, okay, we're
on the same page. But really, there are really
no words for it. I forgot I mentioned the poem.
So before we got together, a while before we
got together, I remember writing this whole poem
about life after death and life between death
and rebirth. All these things that I had never
even thought about. I'm 15 years old and I'm
writing about living in stars and these crazy
things that I couldn't even understand what I
was putting on paper. So I know that there was
something kind of channeled through that. But
moral of that story is I know we were meant to
meet and there are no true words for the connection.
There is not a label that I could put on it other
than soulmate if that's what's going to connect
to people. But I feel like we're the same person
split in two, showing each other whether it's
the good things or the dark things that we need
to see. Even now I see him in me, new things
that show up. I'm like, he gifted that to me.
There really are no words for the connection
that we have, still have 100%. I see him all
the time and he's there. Beautiful. Well, you
met my wife before. That's my second marriage.
I had the same thing. first date sitting it was
we we didn't meet at a bar but we met at a bar
like going through match .com and then decided
to meet there kind of awkward because she said
she was just going to see a band i assume with
her friends so i brought a friend along she was
on her own so the three of us went on the first
date but yeah i mean we lived together from day
two onwards it was the same thing so i can absolutely
understand what you're talking about well I forgot
to mention that we didn't get together like as
a couple I guess quotations couple um until less
than a year before Valentine's Day we were best
friends though for years um and I remember him
telling one of our close friends uh you know
I'm just waiting till after high school I'm just
waiting because I don't want anything to get
in the way You know, I know that I'm going to
spend my life with her. So I'm going to wait.
I'm going to wait it out. And then something
one day we just kissed and we're like, what?
Like what? We were trying to hide this this whole
time. Like it was really funny. But I'm also
gratitude that that just slipped up because I
don't know. We don't know what would have happened
otherwise. So best friend before anything else.
That's what it is. So the footage in after Parkland
of the you doing the face paint on him. You guys
were already friends. Was that right before the
kiss then? No, no, no. But we were already friends.
There was no kissing then. We were not together
then. But I was just ooey gooey inside still.
I was going to say, you could see the, yeah.
You saw it in his eyes too. And yours. Well,
yes. But he was like just somewhere else. He
was somewhere else. And he was recording it.
And I was like, he wanted to capture that so
badly. We had special moments like that all the
time, but I'm so, so, so grateful, again, that
we have a lot actually captured. I have so many
pictures, videos, audio messages, text messages.
Yeah, irreplaceable. Absolutely. Well, and you
can see through the little snapshots that we
got of the outside looking in, of the love of
your group, whether it was Joaquin, whether it
was his team. I mean, there was just so much.
So you guys are, you know, in high school. So
tell me about the preparation from a responder's
point of view. God forbid something like that
happens. Well, our city was, I don't want to
say aggressive. We started doing active killer
slash shooter training years prior to this. You
know, we were kind of a, I don't know if we got
an insight on it or whatnot, but I remember.
distinctively doing some training on more on
our end is the trauma side of it patient care
or pd and we kind of do some joint stuff uh prior
to this but it wasn't crazy but we were a little
bit more advanced i would say than some of the
other departments in in the area you know but
um you know i think leading up to that day did
it did it help maybe it did for us because our
city or some of our cops were a little bit more
prepared to do what was needed then you know
i don't want to i don't want to say the wrong
thing but you can just if you follow the media
and you pay attention to some of the things that
was said it seems to be not too far off of some
people that maybe it was a prepared level money
finances whatever it was was a reasoning for
it you could see the difference between people
being prepared and then people that weren't yeah
so yeah were you doing the safe training that
back then Which one was it? The safe training.
That's what we did up in my department. So it
was the ones where a couple of medics lock on
to PD. They clear a room. You go in, supposedly
drag out or, you know, tourniquet, whatever you
need to do. Yeah, we have SWAT medics that work
for the fire department that work with PD. So
they'll team up together. And then if they need
a, forgive me, the name is skipping my mind,
but we'll have a special assignment group. of
a couple of medics that we'll tag on with the
SWAT medic and officers to go ahead and, you
know, treat as they would say still clear a building,
if you will, treat and then maybe extract type
of thing. Right. And then what about purely from
a tactical medicine point of view, tourniquets
in a bleeding control? Had you had more of a
tactical medicine training up to that point?
We have what they call an active killer bag that
has the tourniquets, that has the stop the bleed,
that has the gauze, the packing gauze and that
kind of stuff to go ahead and treat. such injuries
related to that type of trauma. Right. Okay.
We all have all those now. I'm sorry, I didn't
mean to interrupt, but we have that on every
unit now, you know, after the fact, but we've
had that stuff even prior to. Yeah, and that's
what I got. So obviously, like I said, I'm redoing
the conversation with Chris and Frank. I had
the honor of listening to them the first time.
And, you know, I know Chris from the collaborative,
so I know that he's been, you know, aggressive
in the mental health side and the physical fitness
side. Definitely, for sure. He's doing a great
job. Yeah. With the law enforcement officers
that we trust with our children's lives, actually,
this would be a good place to kind of put in
my little personal story. So I had a couple of
incidents at the kids' school. So when my son
was in elementary school, like I said, I was
at a doctor's office appointment, went to drop
him off. Right when I got there, alarms started
going off. They were told, Mr. Gearing, sorry,
you have to stay in here now. They locked the
doors behind me. In all the Code Red training
that I'd done, this was the first time they thought
they had a legitimate incident. I was in the
kind of copy room, I guess you'd call it, you
know, and looking at the paper guillotine, thinking,
all right, I could cut this off and make a blade.
And I realized at that point... how vulnerable
our children are, how vulnerable our teachers
are. And the only person I believe that at that
moment in that school that had communication
with anyone on the outside was the principal.
So everyone else was just clueless, you know.
So that was a terrifying insight. About three
weeks later, I think it was, if I got the timeline
right, this was after 2018, after what you guys
went through, we had a shoot in Ocala. I think
it was a very, very different dynamic personally.
I think it was a cry for help. It wasn't the
same intent, I don't think. It was one -shot
fire, I think, at the ground as well. Weapon
was placed down. Kid gave up. Thank goodness.
But our town got to kind of see a snapshot. From
the SRO perspective, I had an incident where
my son was, as we talked about, was going through
some... You know, was sad. And through some horrible
choices by his principal and the SRO, he ended
up being Baker active for three days, locked
in a psych facility because he was crying at
his desk. So I saw firsthand what the wrong person
in that job can do. And as a tactical athlete
myself and someone who does martial arts and
shoots and keeps in shape, I know what that police
officer needs to look like too. And I don't see
that in my son's school. So again, not blaming,
I wasn't there, but I think a very important
tangent is I see that sometimes the schools get
the overtime guy, the retiree, and I think it
needs to be the complete opposite. I don't know
if you have any thoughts on that. I think that
the school would be the last place that people
would think something would happen. So from their
perspective is maybe that's it. Maybe the guy's
riding out retirement and it's the easy gig.
That very well could have been the mindset pre.
valentine's day and i'm fine if he's a retiree
badass but yeah i mean it changed now because
you know you have from what i'm seeing you have
officers now that want to be in the schools for
the right reasons because they want to protect
the kids and you know pre that with with our
particular school is i have a we have a lot of
experience with that school all my kids went
there so I've had an opportunity to see a lot
of officers come and go. And I can't speak for
all of them other than the last one. And that's
my, you know, I can voice my personal opinion
about what he didn't do. And tied into training.
The word I don't, the word I'm going to use is
shit the bed. When it came time for him to do
what he needed to do. And he didn't do it. But
this is my. Those are my feelings. Nothing else
is influenced by it. And I don't want anybody
to take it because of what I do. But. You know
it's. They're sworn that they're taking an oath.
Just like I take an oath to protect. You know
so I believe in that oath. And I'll do everything
I can to protect. Even if it is laying down my
life. I'll do that. Just as I expect him to do
the same. So I'm not sure if I answered your
question. Because I get a little bit of. A little
off track when we talk about an in particular
person that his only job is to protect the kids
in the school and have their best interests and
help them, mentor them. You know, they look up
to us, whether it's police or fire to an extent.
I mean, nowadays it's a little bit different
for certain things, but those kids, you could
really set them straight and put them down the
right road just by being a, you know, lay down
the law, but be a good officer and, you know,
and actually care for people. and not just you
know do the job for the right reasons i guess
i don't know if i'm going off beat but yeah you
know well i think that's that's just it again
not picking on that one individual solely obviously
is a product of his environment and everything
else hiring practices training standards all
these things but it's an important conversation
we have to have and it's not even let's forget
him about him for a second it's something i hold
myself to like i always talk about There's a
phrase John Spiro says, would you want you rescuing
you? Great question. I prefer to go even further.
How would you feel if your family died because
the rescuer hadn't trained or wasn't in shape?
That's the real thing. So if we're not putting
the best firefighters, the best school nurses,
the psychologists in the schools that know what
they're doing, then we're setting our kids up
for failure and obviously the ripple effect of
that. When you talk about... Your son crying
and being sent away and how wrong of a situation
that is. That brings me to not only the resource
officer, but everyone in administration. There
was not one person who did their job pre, even
pre -Valentine's Day with the shooter himself
was always in something at school. And nobody
wanted to take care of him. Nobody wanted to
say, hey, kid, like, what can we do for you?
It was. someone else is going to take care of
you. And it was down the line, down the line,
down the line. Nobody wanted to do their job.
So it's beyond that. Of course, he was one person
who could have done their job, but nobody did
their job. So that's where it's really frustrating.
That's where mental health is a huge conversation,
where if there's a kid that's misbehaved, it's
not because he wants to terrorize someone. It's
because he's having inner turmoil that needs
to be addressed. He or she. sorry yes well i'm
thinking we're focusing on they they need to
be addressed as a human being and that's something
i struggle with a lot is that nobody just wanted
to care for that person and that that was the
simple thing that could have been done a long
time before that yeah i think one of the one
of the best questions i've heard recently and
i think this is spot on people say what's wrong
with you instead of saying what happened to you
or how can i help you or what do you need or
anything else that's the quick one that's what's
wrong with you that's like the oral response
if you will when somebody's not behaving a certain
way it's a good point yeah because i mean when
i see these events of course it's absolutely
heartbroken breaking unacceptable you know there's
no other emotion to have but anger and grief
however the answer is to reverse engineer how
did this toddler get to point x you know what
i mean and if we're talking and we'll get into
this you know but that's what i saw post parkland
was this polarizing gun issue and in the meantime
nothing's getting fixed and you guys you know
14 days later are going back to school with nothing
resolved somehow you know it's yeah so we'll
talk about that but but one of the big things
i talk about on here is reverse engineering issues
that we have and also countries that are doing
it better. And I think that as long as we focus
on the minutiae, that's the wrong choice of words,
but one singular element of a bigger picture,
we're never going to find the solution. I had
a guy, Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman, who's
an Army Ranger psychologist, and he talked about
the impact of video games. And I was... absolutely
hand on my heart one of the people that roll
my eyes when i first start violent video games
that's not doing it when you look into how the
army condition their soldiers and you have reward
system and operant conditioning and you understand
the psychology behind it absolutely it contributes
then you add sleep deprivation how many gamers
sleep you know play through the night now you
add psychosis now you add in psych meds you know
and so there's all these and if we're just talking
about one thing we're not getting to the root
at all so i would love to kind of Talk about
that day as in -depth or as not in -depth as
you want. I don't want to drag, you know, use
any way you don't want to go. But then we can
obviously talk about, you know, the things that
we should be doing, the conversations that should
have happened, the things that the adults of
the world should have been discussing instead
of, you know, what were. So Valentine's Day 2018,
kind of. In your own pace, wherever you want
to go, lead me through that day. Well, it started
off very beautifully. I will say that. Bunch
of gratitude for the morning. I always say that
because I remember the day before that. I was
like, you know what? I think I'm going to say
that Valentine's Day is my favorite holiday.
I remember because I was like, I'm all about
love. And it doesn't matter. It could be a friend.
It could be your mom. It could be whoever. But
express yourself on that day. And I showed up
to school. And Joaquin's sitting there on the
bench waiting with some flowers in his hand,
just waiting anxiously, like, get out of the
car, get out of the car, get out of the car.
I'm ready to give this to you. He's a hopeless
romantic. Oh, my gosh. More than that. And we
were late to school. We were late to class, just
walking through the hallway, like, going through
each other's bags. Like, where did we get each
other? You know, silly high school stuff. I remember
that clearly. and then there was a fire alarm
second period and you know that's okay normal
whatever we go outside we go back inside and
then there's another fire alarm fourth period
and we're like okay this is weird and i remember
not i wasn't aware of anything going on where
i was just like okay this is weird we're having
another drill um and then there's chatter and
there's chatter about there being a false drill
and then there's more chatter there's more chatter
and then we're moving further away from our normal
space for the fire alarm. And I'm like, okay,
this is weird. And then there's a cop car sitting
by the softball field. I'm like, okay, that's
weirder. And then there's helicopters. I'm pointing
out the triggers that I remember because that's
how I'm going chronological. And then before
I know it, I'm out at Walmart hearing that it's
what it is, getting calls from my family saying
this is on the news, this is serious. And I just
remember yelling, like, stop calling me. I can't
find Joaquin. That was like it. Like, stop calling
me. I'm trying to call him. Everyone, I'm fine.
I'm good. Stop bothering me. Because I also didn't
see the, something in me saw the weight of it
and understood the truth behind it. But of course,
there's also that huge shock blanket where it's
like, I'm focused on this one thing. I don't
even know that I'm focused on. But yeah, that
was, I evacuated. I was safe. Found Joaquin's
best friend and we stuck together to Walmart,
then to Publix because it was just too crowded.
My mom picked us up. I remember seeing, going
home, seeing stuff on the news. For me, this
is all like very surface level. Because I can't
even, I still haven't processed a lot of actual
feelings from that actual day. I don't remember
a lot. I'm telling you what I remember. Went
home. And then when it became time that I couldn't
just sit at home anymore, I met Joaquin's family
at a different Marriott. Where families of missing
children were. And for me, that was already not.
great even watching the news I remember seeing
someone from his class come out and was being
interviewed and I was like okay if she's in his
class and she's okay and he's not answering that
was like that was immediately when it clicked
because she was also on the news saying and I
was made I was with him and he was making valentine's
for his girlfriend and then she described that
she saw him dead so for me that was like the
moment Didn't want to admit it to myself, but
admitted it to myself subconsciously. And I remember
spending the next 10 hours shaking my leg and
staring at the floor. I can remember the pattern
of the carpet in that conference room. Because
all I was thinking about was either, am I going
to have a reunion? Is this what I'm preparing
for? Or am I preparing for the rest of my life
dealing with this loss? I was very aware of that.
And that was all for 10 hours. We didn't get
news until 2 a .m. I got there. Don't even know.
2 a .m. And I'm just I remember sitting on the
floor. A group of his friends had showed up.
Quite a few. You know, friendly guy. Lots of
friends. And someone's mom had come back in.
And all I remember is her saying that he didn't
make it. I remember going home, my sister and
my mom laying in my bed with me. And I don't
know how I slept, but I did. And then it was
a different world that I woke up to. Just awful.
Well, I want to take the focus to your dad because
the lens that I understand is your father's.
Now, when the shooting happened in Ocala, my...
bonus boy my stepson's school thought they had
a shooting too there was miscommunication and
i had texts there's someone shooting the school
i'm hiding in the library don't call me now he
might hear us kind of thing so i'm blessed that
that was wrong it was a false alarm so tell me
about that day for you not only were you Tori's
father seeing that happen in the high school,
but you were also on the rig that day as a responder.
Well, for me that day, I was actually a step
-up battalion chief that day at the time. And
for me, the story is some things come and go,
so I may jump around a little bit because it's
kind of hard to piecemeal some of the stuff together.
Piecemeal, piecemeal, whatever it is. But for
us, it was our life scan day, so I had gotten
my physical in the morning. And I literally had
just finished, got my results back. Everything
was good that I remember anyway. And put my pants
on, actually, because I wear a radio strap. So
I had just put the radio on. And, I don't know,
probably within two or three minutes, the call
went out. And I, you know, he did that one other
thing. I just hear what I hear or heard. And
it's shooting at Doug, as I'm saying, in the
back of my mind. They rang out again. And where
the life scan was, it literally took me about
three minutes to get to the school. I was the
second chief that arrived on that school. So
from the life scan, I just got in the truck and
I drove. I have a hard time remembering. I believe
I reflected and thought about Tori for a second,
but it was a snapshot. I was instant focused,
first responder mode. Because it wasn't too long
after getting the second dispatch, if you will.
Or repeated information that it became a little
bit more apparent that this was a real deal.
And so I was just trying to keep my cool and
drive the truck because I was by myself. So obviously
I drive the truck and I'm just listening to the
radio traffic and making sure I get there safely.
I felt like I got there literally like a snap
of a finger is how fast I got there. And we pretty
much went right into establishing our perimeter
or whatnot. Obviously we couldn't commit to the
scene. It's not our... a wheelhouse at that point,
and it was on the corner, which became the casualty
collection point. It was where everybody was
starting to come out. So some people were evacuating,
closing down the roads, and I don't know. It's
hard to say as far as how long the time frame
was, but it felt like a couple of minutes that
I stopped myself in the middle of the intersection,
and I grabbed my phone and said, holy shit, my
daughter. So I started going through my phone.
By that time, the media was all over the place.
And I had people texting me from all over. My
buddies back home in New York were texting me.
Is everything okay? I hope you're doing okay.
All the thoughts and prayers were already coming
out. And I was just like, scroll down to Tracy.
And I texted her. I said, where's Tori? Is she
okay? Or something along those lines. And put
the phone back in my pocket and was going right
back to work. Like I said, people were coming.
Parents were coming up to us. I don't want to
say for lack of a better word, it was a little
bit of a shit show because there was people coming
at us from all angles. And every scene is a shit
show, even the small ones. So obviously units
are coming in, you're trying to point to people
and whatnot. So I go back to my phone. She responds
to me, says, Tori's okay. And then followed back,
she says she can't find Joaquin. So at that point,
I'm like, and at that point, people were starting
to be brought out. The cops were bringing people
out. And so I'm trying to put eyes on people
because I was actually assigned accountability
on the scene, which really wasn't like accountability.
That was by no means a true MCI type run incident
whatsoever. So I was a little bit all over the
place. I tell everybody that if at some point,
what's like the first 10 minutes into the scene
or something like that, where if you see when
you watch a movie and they focus on the individual
and everything else around you spins and that
kind of blurry type look, that's how it felt
for a little while. For a little while, I was
just going through the motions. I didn't know
what the hell I was doing. You know, trying to
gear people in, trying to be a leader, you know,
as a chief on the scene or acting chief, trying
to give the crews some confidence and people
coming over. I was consoling kids that were crying
and asking why. I said, again, you're dealing
with people coming at us from all different angles.
So, again, at the same time as people are being
brought out, I'm trying to put eyes on her. You
know, that's where I think it is a little bit
of, I don't say survivor's guilt that I have
where I think that there is some guilt there
where I didn't, you know, her thought was a snapshot.
And I went right to mode. You know, it wasn't,
maybe there was something subconsciously that
I knew she was okay. You just can't describe
what that was or why I did what I did. But, you
know, that's a little bit of survivor's guilt
that I think that I have is just knowing that
I didn't have, because I had the ability, you
know, I was in a truck by myself. I could have
drove my... Damn truck right into that building,
you know, had I known or stopped it. You know,
that's where the, I don't want to say the hero
act comes in where you start, you know, here
we are three years later, shoulda, woulda, coulda,
what could I have done, you know, tying the whole
thing together. It's just, you know, your mind,
it just goes in a lot of different directions
too. So, I know that may not be the best explanation.
I mean, there's little things that I can remember,
but there's some things I just don't. People
will tell me, they said I was doing everything
very well and I just. I remember it was cloudy
for a while. Well, firstly, with the guilt of
knowing Tori was okay, it's something I talk
about quite a bit now. I think a lot of us go
into flow state when it's an acute, really serious
event. You have no choice but to have that myopic
focus because at that point, it wasn't just your
daughter's life that rested on. the actions of
you and the men and women on scene, it was an
entire high school for the kids. So you shouldn't
feel guilty. You had that snapshot. She's okay.
All right, well, then I got to go back in. It's
after that we have the adrenal dump, the processing,
the survivor's guilt, whatever it looks like.
But I think it's important. If we stayed in that
emotional state, we'd be terrible firefighters,
police officers, dispatchers. So that's what
makes us who we are. Was the driving force behind
your colleagues looking from the outside in and
seeing you do a good job because if you took
that emotional element and brought it within
you, you wouldn't be able to function as a BC
or an IC. Well, I could see that. I was going
to mention something. Crap. I lost my train of
thought. Maybe we'll circle back to it. That's
what it was. It was the emotional side of it
for me. It really didn't come out until we started
doing this documentary or the documentary came
out. I mean, I would have some moments, but even
that day, we did the big therapy session afterwards,
the debriefing, if you will, after the incident.
And some of the people that I was seeing, obviously
people crying, and my fellow co -workers were
crying. kind of feel, I don't know what I felt,
but I wasn't feeling the sorrow or any of the
overwhelming aspects. Maybe I was still jacked
up at that time, but even afterwards, because
I met her at the hotel afterwards, once the debriefing
was gone, I hauled ass to the hotel where they
were doing the notifications, if you will, or
whatnot. When I come in, it's just that eerie
silence. People ask me why I subjected myself
to that misery because the And to put that in
perspective is hearing a parent scream when they've
been notified that their child is no longer with
us. That's something that resonates. That's with
me forever. That scream is just something you'll
never get rid of it. I can still hear it to this
day, and I don't even know the family. I won't
mention the name, but I know the family of the
notification that's still stuck in my head. But
part of me felt drawn to be there, but it wasn't
until, like I said, we had the documentaries
where... They want to talk about it, but seeing
the documentary brought it fresh, I couldn't
even have a discussion on stage. They would ask
me certain questions, and I would have a hard
time really conveying any kind of thought. Getting
it out, I would just lose my shit. I would just
start crying and have a hard time conveying anything
of support because people are asking. They want
to, I guess, learn or try to understand and just
try to give them some perspective and maybe give
a little guidance, help, whatever it was, and
I just couldn't do it. Yeah. Well, I'm trying
to make sense of some of that. You're not going
to. Like we were talking about before, you have
to reverse engineer back to birth of the individual
to really find the foundation of that. A friend
of mine made entry on that scene. He was there
from a mental health perspective. Ended up kind
of being grabbed and asked, hey, can you help
with this? Horrific scene. I don't have to paint
the picture for anyone. I certainly don't need
to get you guys to relive that. But it's such
an important point. Some of the most haunting
things that I've had as a firefighter and a medic
are the voices of the people left behind, which
is another huge thing. I think what I really
got from the documentary, because it's all James
Gearing that was nowhere near, got to really
see inside, and it was a very well -made piece,
was... these children went through these horrendous
things you're sitting in front of me now and
again thank you so much for for sitting here
but you guys had to live that you had to carry
that and yet it immediately became politicized
and there's all these children who had their
world turned upside down all these parents that
had their world turned upside down these teachers
and responders who had their worlds turned upside
down and immediately it became a for against
weapons you know and it nauseated me being a
you know a few hours north of you guys seeing
this unfold myself in the documentary and you
have to i forgive me i forget the gentleman's
name but one of your classmates was asked to
go to the white house six days later and talk
do a press conference president gave him a thumbs
up you know one of the parents a thumbs up like
yeah we got this i'm not left or right i just
can't stand a lack of compassion whatever tie
you're wearing, blue, red, whatever. So kind
of talk me through the next few days. You're
grieving everyone that you lost, you know, again,
from your perspective as well. What there should
have been was space, compassion, kindness, love.
What, and I'm not kind of trying to sway or weight
this question, but what... What did you, as children
of Parkland, what did you actually experience
the next couple of weeks after that? I think
that for me, thinking back to that, it feels
like there was absolutely no choice in what the
movement was, who was where, even if someone
disagreed or not disagreed, but if someone was
for weapons. The way that it was portrayed and
shoved down these kids' throats, everyone was
now, okay, anti -gun. We didn't even have a second
to make our own opinions either or grieve for
a second. We did not even have a second. Now's
not the time to legislate. No, no. Now's the
time to grieve and process. I can remember saying,
people would ask me about this, about guns. People
were asking me, okay. But I remember saying,
what about mental health? I remember even from
the beginning, I was like, my first priority
is mental health because I knew from the get
-go, this kid is not well, okay? A well person
with a gun is not going to do that. So the question
is not guns. The question is the person and their
mental health. That's the question. But I think
that, I mean, personally, I was swayed. I mean,
that's what I'm saying. We didn't have a choice.
We were all very swayed into that because I also
think that it was somewhat of a coping mechanism
for a lot of people to just throw themselves
into something. Just channel that. Just say,
what am I going to do? I'm going to do something.
For me, I was swayed a lot. Not in a bad way,
but definitely influenced by Joaquin's family
themselves. I mean, they took their time. Not
took their time. More time, I would say. to grieve
more time meaning like a couple days than the
media but then they were right on to creating
their own organization about that specifically
so they're still working on change the ref yeah
change the ref excuse me yeah so then I felt
also obligated to do that I didn't even realize
in myself that this isn't really me this is just
what I feel like I have to do and I think that's
where a lot of kids were And which is why the
movement might have slowed down a little now
is because people were just so amped up on all
of this emotion. And we were forced to channel
it that way. Could be helpful for some people.
For me, I have a different standpoint now. So
I look back and I don't regret anything that
I did. But I know that if I were to have made
my own decisions, I wouldn't have done what I
did. But I do know that talk is good. But it
needs to be about the right thing, like we were
saying. I think that there still hasn't been
the correct conversation about what happened.
I do plan to, when I'm ready, speak out about
mental health and specifically, without treading
on anything, but specifically this individual
and my thoughts. Because I think that they're
very different than a lot of people who went
through this. Because I'm able to see it from...
I guess, a third point perspective, which is
healthy. And I don't know, difficult, but necessary
in my world to find some kind of acceptance,
some kind of not forgiveness, but that's what
I'll call it, to understand. Yeah, mental health
is my conversation. So let me change that question
now. So what, and I'll ask Anthony the same thing
too, that's what happened. What should have happened?
In the ideal world, knowing everyone that was
on there, whether they were adults or school
kids, what should those first few weeks have
looked like? Therapists everywhere, support groups,
just meetings of people. We only needed each
other. There were therapists, but I will say
that there was no effort. in getting the proper
therapists at school. They were trained in three
days, trauma trained in three days before coming
into our school and trying to tell us what we
need to do. I remember being taken out of my
class by a therapist and him saying, you know,
I know a lot about you. Like, that someone else,
that he heard something from someone else. Like,
that's the first thing you're going to say to
me is you know about me. you know that I'm having
a hard time or I don't even know what he was
saying. And he's like, the second thing was,
well, what are your triggers? Like he had absolutely
no boundaries. He had absolutely no knowledge
of how to handle, um, a traumatized child, a
child. I was 17. Um, I just, what should have
happened? Let's go. I'm going back. I was, no,
go tangent away, please. Seriously. Just, I can
see like, in my head, I'm seeing what should
have happened. And it's circles of people, hugs.
And there were a lot of hugs and there was a
lot of talk. I just, more compassion, really.
And there was an overflow of love from the entire
world. I can't deny that. That people from Australia
and Germany and wherever are reaching out to
me, finding my page specifically to tell me that
they're proud of me or that they send me thoughts
and prayers. and whatnot, but I don't even know,
man. It really just shouldn't have been what
it was because it also forced a lot of people
to grow up. Of course, the situation itself forced
all of these kids out of innocence and purity,
I would say, but to then force them to actually,
okay, you're going to be a leader now. You're
not going to take care of yourself. You're going
to go and take care of an entire community. It
felt like a huge responsibility. When really
there just should have been a huge pause. Because
there was no, I understand time doesn't wait
for anyone and life goes on. But for an entire
community to be affected and for there not to
be any moment of silence. Okay, there were like
minutes, but there should have been a pause.
There should have been, hey, let's regroup for
a second. We all just know what happened. How
can we help each other instead of, oh, now we
have to change the entire world. Like first,
we have to start small. We have to start with
ourselves before we, there's no handing a cup
over to someone without filling it for yourself
first. So it really just sort of started with
one person at a time. Like, what do you need?
What can we do for you? Not what can you do with
this? That comes later on. That is necessary.
I understand everyone has. their purpose afterwards
and what they want to do with this pain. But
first you have to process the pain. You have
to, because now there are people, a friend of
mine three years later is finally saying, which
I understand it's going to take years for a lot
of people, but she's like, you know what? There's
a lot of things that I think I need therapy for.
I'm like, great, let's do it. Like, let's talk
about it. Let's do it. But people thought that
just talking about weapons was going to help
them. it's actually talking about your feelings
that are going to help you uh so yeah more love
yeah that's the moral of the story well and thank
you for that perspective because that's not what
happened and it's not blaming especially you
know your jurisdiction but i saw an opportunity
A political opportunity that was swooped upon
the same way as this last 12 months. I've seen
that multiple times, whether it's race, law enforcement,
COVID, you know, and in the meantime, people
are dying on the streets. People are dying, you
know, of not only COVID, but obesity and everything
else. And we talked about before we recording,
you know, this, the human and compassionate element
is lost by the polarization of some of these
narratives. So Anthony, from your perspective,
so you were not only a father, you responded
that day. What should those following few weeks
look like, not only for Tori, but for the responders
as well? Well, the responders, we'll start with
the responders. We were and are pretty good about
mental health. We were definitely staying on
top of it. 2018 was actually a tough year for
me and actually for our department, but to get
back to it is we were prepared. We had clinicians
that came out in full force afterwards, but we
were pretty good about that. Chief Babnick at
the time was, you know, always worried, I say
always, definitely worried about mental health
for the members. So that was, well, it wasn't
an issue to implement that for us. It was there,
you know, it gets to a point where there was
so much of it that people didn't want to have
that conversation. They had to sit in the room.
They didn't have to have a conversation, but
they had to be in the room and take part in the
event. But that was too much. That's how well
prepared we were for it. At least for that, we
smothered the people. They're still there, and
they're great people. And hats off to Bader and
the chief at the time for getting us where we
are with that. They're still doing great. But
as far as the community goes, it's... It was
definitely a hurry up and something needs to
be done in which push people into different groups,
I think. It was already divided. Unnecessarily.
You split people for gun violence or anti -gun
violence and gun reform and then there's a morning
and then there's March for Our Lives and all
these political, it seemed like the political
aspect of the event overran everything, if you
can kind of think of it that way. I mean, trying
to take a look at it because I'm not a political...
person by any means. I'm not a gun person, but
I understand both sides of it that there are
some kind of changes that need to be, but the
overall event, it didn't have to happen so quickly.
You know, maybe a tragic event for us is when
you have something like that, it's a different
perspective for the community to say, well, what
do we do? But there were other events that took
place that we could have learned from. But to
my knowledge, and I can't back this up 100%,
but to my knowledge that people didn't ask. this
is what happened to us. What could we do to help
the people? You know, and even to this day, there's
not even a memorial. I mean, there is a memorial,
but thanks to Tori and Ms. Reovan, one of the
teachers, they created a garden. It's not official.
Not official, but there's the garden on the corner
of the school is the only place that on Valentine's
Day that people can go and pay their respects.
And that was where you, when they were doing
the walkout initially, you didn't go, but that
was the garden they walked to where you did show
up in the documentary? I don't know if it was...
They were doing the walkout? No, the walkout
went to Pine Trails at the time. The garden was
created Christmas Eve of 2018. Okay, so it probably
wasn't the same one. Just a teacher. Well, just
a teacher. One of the teachers. Just a teacher.
No, sorry, sorry. She's a good friend of mine.
She's my neighbor. She was... In the second classroom,
that was attacked. And so she has that experience
and I have mine and we connected very deeply
after that. But she just called me Christmas
Eve. I'm sitting with the family and she's like,
there's nothing there. There's nothing that we
have. Let's just go put like fake flowers down.
And she's poking them into the ground. And I'm
like, what the hell? Why don't we just dig up
the ground and like plant something? Let's actually
put it here so I can grow. Let's invite everyone
out and do it. We didn't have any permission
whatsoever. I just said, fuck it. I'm going to
do it. Permission's overrated. Before she gets
into it, but to show you the mindset of the community,
it was the principal who was giving him a hard
time. He literally said it would be an eyesore.
Just to go to show you that, you know, the mindset.
And this is, I mean, it's a few months later,
but still, you know, I was dumbfounded by some
of the responses of whatnot. And still, to this
day, there's still nothing. I don't say nothing.
I keep saying nothing, but there's. you know
if you go to sandy hook and they have certain
areas that are dedicated and we still don't have
that yet we still got to look at the damn building
that's still up because they they won't take
it down yet because it's a freaking crime scene
and they need it for evidence even now it's still
up yeah really it's needed for evidence we'll
get into that in a second but sorry so finish
up with project sorry i totally derailed that
well just go and get to that so so i want to
hear about the garden but again the opposition
to that we talked about you know finding yourself
jumping into a cause and that cause ends up being
politicized isn't actually i just finished interviewing
a friend yesterday he has a garden that looks
like this this jungle behind us beautiful piping
music i don't know where the speakers were it's
like being on a resort somewhere but that's his
happy place so why not give the kids the garden
the memorial to be that focus rather than doesn't
have to be at the school i mean it's there it's
tough to find a nice and be at peace and pay
respects and then you look up and you see the
building there so it's literally right in front
of it but that's the only place that i have nothing
because we've go there we go there we maintain
it you know i found some healing there myself
going you know project grow love and try to spread
and do all that good stuff so i'm stealing your
thunder sorry sorry your dad was rudely interrupting
sorry i'm sorry for the folks listening i apologize
i get a little excited about it too i'm sorry
yeah it was actually something that really motivated
me that was something that helped me a lot um
knowing that i was inviting the community out
to do it also it was like an uproar of support
at that point like oh finally we have somewhere
to go and we have something to actually do to
take part in it and was it therapeutic oh yeah
yeah digging in the dirt and and it there's so
many symbols to it as well um life after death
or life itself and growth and all the colors
and beauty of life and all these things um But
I saw the impact that it had on every kid that
showed up there. It was a release. It was almost
like an accomplishment. They felt like they were
giving back. It was purposeful while also creating
something with an even bigger purpose. There
were so many little purposes in the big one.
We called it Project Grow Love because literally
that's what we're doing there. I wanted to wrap
the whole school in it. And that's where I was
told that's going to be an eyesore. That's actually
not going to be great. And I was like, I think
we just need more love. Let's grow it. Let's
do it. I still kind of want to go little by little
and extend it as I go. Do one at a time. They're
not going to notice. One day they're going to
be completely surrounded. What can they do? You
need more of that to go back to your original
question. The community needed more. stuff like
that before it went to the the route that it
did um but people were very happy with what we
did so there's exactly the people were happy
but sadly bureaucracy kind of got in the way
yeah the media didn't help you know they push
people and into certain things i mean i know
um that's a whole conversation you can have a
you know an hour conversation on that particular
topic but it's maybe part of it and i don't want
to not the credit that I was going to mention,
the magnitude of the incident, you know, 34 people
total, you know, 17 and 17. I never want to forget
the injury because that's another dynamic that
has to be not, shouldn't be forgotten, excuse
me, and some of those people are a little upset,
but what I'm talking about is that the magnitude
of the tragic event was so massive that I don't
think people, they needed, like maybe you said
it before, something to latch onto to help themselves
get through. the process or to heal or to, to
deal with the situation. You know, maybe that
was a factor too. I'm not really sure, but you
know, there was a couple of failures, I think.
And I think just going back to what you said
before, just some, some love and compassion and
just taking everybody time to console and, and
deal with what just happened. Well, I think an
important thing. And I, when my friend was telling
me about going into the scene, Where law enforcement
and fire are different and law enforcement are
going into an incident knowing there's a possibility
that they might take a life and or lose a life.
Usually fire, EMS, we get there and some catastrophes
happen and it's nothing to do with us. We didn't
shoot the person. You know what I mean? It's
very different. In military, in war, they go
into it as traumatic as it is in understanding.
I might kill or be killed. A high school where
you're thinking about how much math sucks or
whatever you're thinking about. Social studies,
yeah. And then you're in that event. If we can
create these memorials and all these programs
for our veterans, and rightly so, especially
our combat veterans, we sure as hell need to
focus on the children that survive these incidents.
So absolutely, if red tape and bureaucracy gets
in the way, you know we're totally wrong in that
you know you what some of these people have been
through the children the teachers you know the
custodians everyone that was there you know we
need we need to bend over backwards to to give
outlets and if a healing garden and i'll give
you a funny story oregon state penitentiary i
had the governor on they allowed them to start
like a zen garden and they've found like you
know attrition not attrition but you know the
violent crime in the prison has gone down some
of the re -offending levels have gone down purely
because they allowed these men and women a focus
to simply garden so to put a roadblock up you
know and even if they don't like the original
plan then say well look hey we can't go all the
way around the school but we're going to give
you this this place and you know here's a little
extra acreage that the city's given us you can
kind of extend into So, yeah, I think, you know,
that's the problem again where you lose that
compassion, that human side is, you know, the
emotional toll that it took you guys, you know,
took from you guys that has to be applied positively.
And I think a lot of that politics that we talk
about just compounds the trauma again. Instead
of healing, you completely negate the healing.
Some of it might be a choice that they made too.
I mean, I don't want to discredit that. that
was their defining moment that was going to maybe
steer them down their career path or something
that they, you know, maybe they weren't ready
to go there and it kind of, maybe you mentioned
earlier as far as being forced into a spot that
maybe you're going to go down there down the
road and now it's here now and now you're going
to go ahead and maybe the political route is
where I'm, I guess where I'm going. I hate to
keep bringing that up into it because it's, seems
to be the stem of a lot of. I don't want to say
failures, but a lot of certain situations. You're
preaching to the choir, though, and that's something
I talk about. Like, I'm not demonizing all. I
hate the word all. It's not all politicians.
No, it's not. But, you know, we see our profession.
We see a lot of that. I mean, you know, the parallels
between what Tory went through at school and
what a lot of our men and women go through on
the job are very similar. The lack of support
sometimes are very similar. The politics that
gets in the way, and it's something I talk about
a lot, of the work week. That our first responders
are working themselves to death, you know, is
a lot of politics too. You touched on the media.
And even though technically right now I am the
media because we're doing an interview and it's
going to go, you know, public. One of the biggest
lacks of compassion that I've seen a lot of times
is there'll be an event and immediately someone's
sticking a microphone into the mother. Hey, your
son just got shot. How do you feel? And it just
is jaw -dropping because you are more concerned
about your career path than what that person's
just been through. Who's going to get the better
story? Who's going to have the better footage
or whatnot? Zero compassion. I was literally
going to do the same thing. Oh, my God. Zero
compassion for the mother that's grieving. And
not to get off topic or anything, but in our
profession, you have, and I convey this to people
when I can have the conversation. how good and
healthy it is to discuss certain topics. Especially
with somebody in your field that she touched
on a little bit earlier with one of the girls
who wants to start having some therapy and was
in the school. Having that relationship with
somebody that was in the same instant is a little
bit more of an understanding than your regular
therapist. Crap, I totally had a... Yeah, where
were you going? The media originally. No, it
was the... Oh, it was... How, you know, obviously
we're compassionate. We can pull up and it probably
has nothing to do with that conversation because
it was going down how they're too worried about
the story. They don't care about compassion where
we see a lot of trauma. So it's easier for us
to pass along that compassion and I convey that
to people. That's where I was going is that we
witness it on a regular basis. So it's easier
for us to blow crap off and say, hey, you know
what? That's not really important. Focus on some
of the positive things in life because, you know,
we see people at their worst. Yes. And so it's
a different perspective as opposed to the person
with the microphone. He just, like we said before,
I'm repeating myself, is he only cares about
the story because, as you said, it's the career
path that they're worried about. They don't care.
Zero feelings, I guess you could say at that
point. Yeah. So from your perspective, Tori,
what that element, did you, because I saw, you
know, beginning, we got a snapshot of David Hogg,
who kind of became the poster child for, you
know, the media, for lack of a better word. without
again loading the question those first few weeks
what was that like the media element for you
i mean you saw also a snapchat in the documentary
of the sidewalk full of cameras like there was
not even room to walk and that was the first
day back that was the first day back and every
sidewalk is lined up hundreds hundreds of people
just holding microphones out waiting for someone
for someone anything come here come here kid
get over here whatever Who were they going to
get to talk to? Atrocious. I don't use that word.
It's atrocious. I remember directing some anger.
Obviously, I didn't know where to put it at the
time, but it had come out towards them in a lot
of ways because of the insensitivity and just
disrespect. I mean, for us... one to be going
back to school two weeks later 14 days later
and what was the decision just just to interject
what why why so soon it seemed like i don't know
to me who someone is you know not someone we
were all confused we were all confused but we
just took 12 months off school yeah virtual because
of a virus yeah and yet you have a mass shoot
in the as you mentioned killed 17 injured 7 or
wounded 17 excuse me And two weeks later, you're
going back to school. Do you know the root of
that? I have no idea. A lot of my anger was also
mainly directed at administration, which I think,
honestly, side note, might have been my healthiest
decision at that time. But I didn't understand
a lot of the decisions that they made, but I
just did what was good for me. The only reason
that I went back to school that day was to convince
one of my buddies to go. I said, you could do
it. You know, if I can do it, let's go. Like,
let's do it. I really was not going to. It was
kind of a team effort. We really acted as backbones
for each other. But, yeah, the media was the
worst part. Really awful. Just watching the kids
from my, I mean, not my, my little two cents,
sorry. For me, just sitting back looking at all
that, I mean, it's, I don't say intimidating,
but I. There was no privacy to even, there was
no time to grieve. One, there was no privacy
anywhere to just have a moment. If I wanted to
cry, it was like, okay, every lens is going to
be on me now. Because that'd be a great shot
for 6 p .m. Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.
So for me, that was just uncomfortable. And it's
something that I feel like I can't even really
process to this day, how people can lack. that
level of compassion like if you're human how
do you i understand that's your job but there's
there's a way to go about it um and i remember
meeting uh jake and emily who directed the movie
the documentary this is just tying into uh what
you're talking about what is it you know how
are you talking about the moment literally that
was Anthony just showed me a picture of yeah
NBC is this particular one of you guys grieving.
It makes a great show. And how many likes did
it get? I don't even know. Let me look at it.
I don't have my glasses. 1854 at the time. Oh,
shit. It was worth it then. That's a lot of likes.
But I just... Sorry, I tied in. I don't want
to... It's exactly that. It's so pertinent. Because
sadly, and I will get back to you, Tor, but what
irks me is there are some great news agencies
out there, but there are a lot that are selling
advertising space. And that is the focus. And
so when you have something like this, and ratings
is more important than feelings, shame on you.
That was a lot of what was happening, but I was
about to put a little bit of a positive spin
on it, because I remember meeting the people
who directed the documentary that I starred in.
I hate, that's not what I wanted to say, but
that I took part in. And how much of a different
approach that they had. They were genuine journalists
who... Very nice people. Very nice. Who had heart
to heart with us that actually sat down and said,
whatever you're comfortable with, let's do. They
came into our homes at the hardest points, at
the milestones, at literally the hardest days.
And for some reason, I still was willing to do
it. But it was definitely their energy, a lot
different than just newscasters who were in your
face. Yeah, I think that there are people who
know how to do their job and there are people
who are just wanting to get paid, maybe. I don't
know. Very insensitive, though. This goes back
to who's got the better picture. Yeah. You know,
the better story. But I think that it just, the
invasion, that's what I can call it. It was quite
literally an invasion on our life. And that's
something that I still struggle with now is how...
People feel like they have a right to give me
their two cents on the most personal parts of
my existence because of how broadcasted my life
was at that point because Joaquin's face was
everywhere and everyone wanted to know about
him and then it's like, okay, well, where is
his family and how much pain is his girlfriend
in and all of these things and people wanted
so much from me and people still feel... The
right to come up to me there was a woman who
came up to me asking Well, what do you think
he's gonna feel when you move on or whatever
like crazy questions that I'm like lady I don't
even know you like who are you but because of
the way that my life was shown to the world people
feel That they have special permission to dig
deeper which is why sometimes I struggle doing
things like this, but I do trust you and I appreciate
your authenticity. I can feel it. But there are
people who scare me because they're going to
ask me awful things that they just want to see
me cry or they want the worst things or they
just want to know information that should just
be mine. Like there's a lot of things that are
out there that I would never want out there.
And so it's really difficult. It was definitely
an invasion of space, of privacy. complete disrespect.
And I can just make the best of it now. I mean,
I have created my own platform with that and
have turned a positive spin on it as well with
my art. And I post a lot of positive messages
and people are very inspired by my ability to
shapeshift the situation and to say, you know,
I can choose to sit in a corner all day. I very
well could be doing that right now. But all we
have is this moment, so what am I going to really
do with it? And I definitely, everything happens
for a reason, and I don't regret what happened.
As far as media, I do wish that it went on differently,
but I was able to really, really make the best
of it. So there's that. Yeah. Well, I want to
close with one more kind of thought process.
Actually, two things. First, we'll talk about,
you know, the... the kind of journey mentally
have you know what what did work for you i mean
i'm gonna say work not like it's fixed now but
you know some things that were healing but before
we do that from both of you and i'll ask you
one at a time what should we do to make the school
safer so with with the arguments that were thrown
around like i said for me there are so many layers
through through my eyes if someone asked me this
question it would be the mental health element
you know it would be parenting it would be It
amazes me that people will go home and relax
after a work day and watch Saw. A bunch of people
being mutilated and tortured and find a lot of
some steam and watch 12 people die. I feel better
now. So we have to question ourselves, why do
we like that? Grand theft and all these things.
But there's also, with the gun thing, I'm British.
I grew up on a farm. I was allowed to have shotguns.
And that was about it. So I had guns, not anti
-gun. But then I was amazed when I went to Gander
Mountain in the U .S. and watched five -year
-olds playing with semi -automatic weapons and
50 cows up on the wall. There's a middle ground
where the average person maybe shouldn't be able
to get the entire spectrum of military -grade
weapons. So it's not black or white. There's
a happy medium to me personally. And then for
me again with the SRO. the right person at all
i think that's a great deterrent i think a lot
of you know school murderers would be deterred
by the right person in the right uniform at the
right door so starting with you tori politics
aside if if you could king for queen for a day
excuse me um what should we do to make our schools
safer i think it does start with mental health
um I think it needs to be taken more seriously
in school. That someone who's behaving, let's
say, quote -unquote, wrongly, I don't know what
else to call it, misbehaving, all right, misbehaving.
I think that there should be people, teachers,
who can see that as an opportunity to help someone
rather than to push them further down. I think
that that's huge in school. I always saw that
as like the loud kid or the goofball is made
to feel worse and is to be punished rather than,
well, what's making you act this way? Why do
you feel this way? Why do you feel the need to
be the loudest in the room? Are you neglected
at home? There are so many things that go into
that that are very quickly overlooked. I think
that it really starts with that. Because even
at school, there were, at my school, there were
programs for, what, like the Promise Program
and different things that kids were thrown into,
but there was no real support. It's just, I'm
going to put you in this group, I'm going to
label you, and now you're in a box, and you can't
do anything else, and you can't be anything else.
And I think... just mental health is a huge conversation
uh that needs to keep going um but it does start
with the adults that are working at school there
are so many things that you can do simply to
look out for your students to look out for your
colleagues to just be kind really that's that's
my main thing i don't i don't think about yes
security is a thing that's not top of my brain
i do think that When I think about specific things
that went wrong, there were security guards who
dismissed the kid himself, said, I'm going to
go the other way. I'm going to go get someone
else. I'm not going to approach him myself. I'm
going to let, even though I know he's holding
a rifle bag and I know he's walking into that
building, I'm going to go the other way. Like
that's something like you, there needs to be
people who are prepared, who have the mindset
that they need to have, who have the strength
needed. There are so many things that were simply
solvable. But it starts with mindset. So mental
health really is the top. I don't think about
like fences or doors or I don't think about that
stuff because I think it starts way before that.
That's my spiel. Yeah. No, I agree with you completely.
It's the conversation of the militarization of
police. Well right now our police have been executed
left right and center so if you're a cop wouldn't
you want to wear a jacket and a helmet and you
know all that stuff so you know what's next then
the bad guys get armor penetrate you know you
know I mean it just gets worse and worse and
worse you see that with the Mexican border the
answer is to go back to the beginning you know
like you said a gun is just a gun if a psychopath
isn't holding it you know. So, yeah, I couldn't
agree more. I had a guy, Pasi Solberg, on who's
originally from Finland, which we hold as one
of the best education systems. And one of the
big difference wasn't the Finnish boys and girls
were just so much more intelligent. It was the
teachers were basically looking at the child
as a whole human being and gave more support
to kids that maybe didn't have the best home
life and had the mental health element and had
shorter days and more playtime. You know, rather
than FSAs and 5 .0 GPAs and all this stuff. Seems
simple. Absolutely. To look at someone. Sorry.
No, no, no. Don't apologize. No, no. To think
of someone as a human being is outrageous in
this day and age. We're all just human and that's
what it is. I like that you're saying that. To
see someone as a whole human being shouldn't
be that difficult. For me, I even look at...
the shooter himself i see him as a human being
like that's where i was going before and like
i don't think that people have the same outlook
as me because it's very difficult to come to
that conclusion of yes he's a human being just
like any of us he made decisions that maybe we
don't agree with but he's still a human being
and that's what it is so i think we should see
everyone as they are and yeah human yeah i agree
100 i think it's a very mature decision that
shows that you know you've process a lot of what
you went through yeah um and i want to get to
that in just a moment but anthony same thing
if we if you were king for a day i got the sex
right on this one you know especially through
a responder's lens you know would would it be
the same thing where you have you got things
to add how do we make our children safer in 2021
mental health obviously is a huge component but
there's a Other areas that could be focused on,
and it's not just the child or something like
that. It is the teachers, making sure they're
involved with their kids and they're not tuned
out. Engage with them. I mean, it's hard. I'm
an instructor on the fire academy side of it,
so it's a little bit different, obviously, than
the public school system. But I try to apply
the... And engage with the student where I can
so I can teach them the best that I can and understand
a little bit of that person. So if there's something
that's not right, which might tie into mental
health where I can recognize, okay, this person's
not acting right. Something's going on. Actually
care, you know, caring. So as far as kind of
understanding that and just treat it as another
day. Okay, we're going to go with social studies
today and, you know, check out and just go through
your routine or your plan or whatever it is and
not really buy in. and engage. Maybe that has
to do with you not liking your job. I'm not labeling
saying teachers don't like their job, but that's
a factor because if you don't really enjoy what
you're doing, you're not going to put out a good
quality product. You're not going to pay attention
to the kids and make sure they're literally learning
the material you're trying to do and create that
bond because there's some teachers that can create
bonds with kids from many, many years through
their whole school career where she would go
back to elementary school because of certain
teachers that left an impact. That kind of stuff
is simple, I think. So from internally and externally,
if you would look at it, externally, continue.
Unfortunately, in our day and age, we're in the
mindset of having to pay attention to who's coming
and going in the schools. We're going to have
to continue to do that until we get the mindset
that people feel safe. I don't know if it's good
or if it's bad. I don't want the kids to feel
like a prison because then it's... That's going
to have an adverse effect too, but they still
need to pay attention to who's coming and going
because not to get off topic, we'll come back
to it, but the individual that saw this guy coming
in is the sole person that could have stopped
this whole day. He was well within his rights
to stop the individual, but being alert, and
maybe that ties into this too, is not being afraid
to engage somebody that maybe doesn't belong
on the property or, again, Just go for security
or the cops. You try to build a relationship.
I mean, today, obviously, it's a little bit hard,
but pay attention to your people. Maybe, I don't
know, this might be a stretch, but an undercover
individual hanging out in the classrooms. You
know, just to engage and get on their level so
you might see something, say something, may play
out internally amongst the kids. I think they're
doing a better job of that now, and this goes
for the kids, too. They see something, don't
be afraid to say something. It's the littlest
thing. Bring it to somebody's attention. I mean,
I know I kind of went around a little bit a couple
different ways, but I don't know if I have a
really good solution or suggestion for a solution
or my thoughts. I mean, I'm kind of, it's so
involved. It's so big. So many things can be
done, but simple things. I mean, yes, the mental
health aspect of it is huge. Just going to pay
a little bit more attention to our youth, I guess.
Yeah. I mean, you can't stop the individual that
maybe doesn't like school for whatever reason.
I mean, I don't totally reach in here with that,
but I don't know. I'm just kind of off the beaten
path there. No, but it's a very powerful perspective
from the two of you. And again, I thank you for
this. But absolutely. I mean, the number of incidents
that have been stopped because someone challenged
someone in a school. because they weren't in
their mind it didn't pay out like that they were
the powerful one they had the weapon and it really
sickens me to think that had he challenged him
he may well have just crumpled and that would
be it you know and instead he was able to do
what he did you know pretty much unchallenged
you know the coach lost his life and you know
some other people i'm sure tried to but he'd
already had the the power move by that point
so yeah and i think the creating environment
like firefighters our teachers aren't well -paid
you know they a lot of you know i know my son's
teachers were supplying school supplies themselves
and all that thing so again you have to hire
the right people but you have to give them the
environment to thrive not fail and it's exactly
the same in the first responder professions yeah
i um i was going to say that you only get out
of this stuff what you put into it and that could
be applied anywhere you know um God, I hate when
I do that. I lose my thought. I had a nice thought
I wanted to mention and maybe it'll come back
to me later, but it was to tie into that whole
thing. Dang it. Well, let me ask Tori one more
thing and then see if it comes back to you. So
to close, you went through this horrific thing.
You lost your soulmate, plus a bunch of other
members of your school and or friends. Of course,
the dark side of that is this. fucking awful
for lack of a better word what has worked what
has helped the last few years from you get for
you to get from that dark place to where you
are today not saying today is perfect but you're
better you've grown you're you're driven now
you have your art that's that's what i was gonna
start with uh i remember those days after sitting
in my backyard for hours on end like it would
start to get dark out and I didn't realize that
I had been there since the morning. All I'm doing
outside is painting for hours. I got into a lot
of different projects. I was finally, that's
when I was able to call myself an artist. I was
doing it every day and I was like, why? You don't
have to have a special certification. I'm creating
and this is what I'm doing. And that gave me...
some guidance just calling myself that uh like
allowing myself to step into that role um i started
yoga um and i didn't even i don't even know what
brought me to that first class i mean spirit
something because i remember feeling the feeling
what's the word i was looking for the potential
not potential the capability that I had inside
of me for anything I mean yes it's yoga you're
just stretching and and doing this and that but
it's so much of a spiritual practice as well
where it challenges your brain it challenges
your body it challenges everything if you let
it um I felt the strength of my body and then
I related that to the strength in my heart and
it just it really changed me And I didn't have
the thought to teach at that point. I was just
like, you know what, this is something that I
really love to do and I'm going to keep doing
it. So here I am painting, doing yoga. It sent
me on, honestly, just a very spiritual journey.
And it's spirituality that saved me, understanding
that I'm more than this body, that I'm more than
the experience that happened to me, that I have
the power to change other lives by... knowing
that I have a choice in how I want to react to
it, that I don't have to crumble, that I can
when I need to. And that's also something huge
is learning acceptance. And I have not accepted
the situation yet, but accepting the emotions
that come with it, accepting my humanness, embracing
my humanness, while also honoring that this is
not all that I am. And the experience is not
all that I am. So it's really like spirituality
was everything. I got a bunch of crystals. I
was doing just random stuff, connecting to the
earth. That's something that's helped me a lot
is just being in nature, remembering gratitude,
remembering the miracle of that one tree that's
allowing you to breathe and that there's just
so much more than that one experience. it haunts
me or as as present as it is in my life it is
not the present moment so i can live with it
but i'm not there and i i think that my self
-awareness has has really helped me in this journey
um yeah i could go into a lot more but that's
that's really yep i don't know no and you know
what's what's amazing is it parallels so many
other people have been on here many of whom were
soldiers, police officers, firefighters, but
it's the same thing. Family, tribe, nature, art.
I mean, you know, gratitude is a huge one. So,
yeah, I mean, we're seeing these common denominators,
whether you're a 50 -year -old retired SEAL or,
you know, just came out of high school. It's
very powerful to see that these same things are,
you know, resonating. I think art is, you know,
absolutely huge. You're able to focus that energy
rather than some polarizing political thing.
Now you can focus your emotion same way as Joaquin
does. Excuse me, Joaquin's dad does. Beautiful.
Just one more thing. My creations with my art
helps me because I send it to other people around
the world and they're motivated by it and they
want to start their healing journey. I get by
by helping others get by. That's from the first
day. I remember the day after everyone was like,
why are you here? I went, I showed up to the
vigil. I don't even know how I did it. And everyone's
like, why are you here? How are you hugging everyone?
How are you not crying? How are you? I'm sitting
there talking to all of his friends, kind of
giving them closers, if you will, like don't
hold on to any fight that you had and really
just give some kind of closure. That was also,
I felt, being channeled. But helping others,
my whole life, we started with this conversation.
My whole life is about helping other people.
And realizing my purpose came from this tragedy.
Knowing that that drive to help other people
wasn't just an idea, a thought. It is my entire
purpose on this earth to give back. to have processed
all the pain and do something with it. So now
I'm done. Which is beautiful because you're a
miracle baby from a man who has the same purpose.
Yes. Thank you. So Anthony, same thing for you,
processing not only that event, but I mean 20
plus years in the fire service. I sometimes have
to step back and ask myself how I do it. As I
mentioned earlier, we see a lot of stuff that
the general public don't see, and sometimes on
a regular basis. The tragedy was obviously in
a scale by itself, but 25 years, 27 years have
included all my time to this day, and I still
have about 11 more to go before I retire. You're
a glutton for punishment. But I think the love
for the job and... And the genuine want to help
and do things for other people is what keeps
me going in the job aspect of it. But the tragedy
and dealing with some people wanting to be strong
for me, that was, it's still hard. I mean, I
find myself a little, I get lost in my thoughts
because I kind of, not kind of, I think I feel
a lot of pain of everybody that's involved and
people that we're close with because it's just,
you know, it wasn't just Tori and I. And Joaquin,
it's everybody else that we knew. I live in the
city. I work for the city. I see a lot of people.
And we know the parents of several of the victims.
And it's kind of hard to deal with that kind
of stuff going forward. But I think what's helped
me a lot through that is Tori is... has been
amazing as far as, and if you've seen any of
the interviews and whatnot, especially after
the documentary releases, the way they describe
her inner strength, her pose, poise, however
you say that word, and whatnot, has given other
people strength to do certain things. And, you
know, we've bounced a couple of things off of
each other because of our, obviously, unique
connection to this. And I think that's what's
helped me a lot, and I still have my moments.
So we live. two two blocks from the school so
and i work obviously in the same city so those
constant triggers those constant reminders are
going to be there until the day we are able to
leave this area when the time is right and put
that page behind you but i i know i got off track
a little bit but it was kind of just i think
the love for the job and i still love what i
do and being there for the community and you
know it's just not too many people still like
this job You know, they're not in it for the
right reasons. I think when I finally got into
it, you know, this is what I wanted to do. And
I do it for the right reason. I think that just
keeps me driving, keeps me strong. I still haven't
had that moment to where, you know, I was kind
of maybe the first year or so, maybe numb to
it to where the second or third year, I was just
kind of waiting for the bottom to fall out. But
it hasn't come. And other than those moments,
as I mentioned earlier, after the documentary
and you asked me a specific question, I wouldn't.
This conversation wouldn't happen right now if
I had watched the documentary and we'd try to
have a conversation. It just wouldn't because
that pain that I feel, not hers, but everybody's.
I don't want to put it all on her. My wife is
definitely the rest of the family. I don't want
them to be forgotten. Obviously, that's what
family is all about. Maybe there's a hidden strength
there that's guided us through, that's kept us
strong as well. Beautiful. I think that's the
perfect place to end. I just want to thank you
both. It's been such a powerful conversation.
It's such an important perspective. I mean, the
dynamic of the both of you, the value that it
has for everyone else, whether it's related to
an event in a school, a first responder, a civilian
that only got the Fox CNN version of Columbine,
Parkland, Sandy Hook. important and completely
you know uh imperative yeah you just can't you
can't forget no you gotta and uh that's all i
was going to mention earlier is just continue
on years down the road don't forget these people
you know especially the survivors well and let's
fucking fix this thing too excuse my language
but i mean i i get so angry you know was it people
that einstein said insanity is doing the same
thing expecting different results You know, you've
done your little protests about pro and anti
guns. It hasn't done a damn thing. Our children
are still dying in the schools, you know, and
amongst, you know, everything else. So it's time
that we step up, get uncomfortable, have these
kind of conversations and honor the ones that
we lost by fixing this. Yeah, absolutely. I agree
100%. So, well, thank you both. I mean, Tori,
you know, I hate pulling people through what
they went through. But the number of people,
the thousands of people that are going to hear
this, the ripple effect of your story today,
I'm very selfish because I didn't have to relive
anything really. You guys did. But I just appreciate
your courage. I appreciate your trust. And just
thank you for being so generous in telling your
story today. No problem. Like I said, I believe
it's healthy to have the conversation. Don't
bottle up. And that's kind of my thing to everybody
is don't be afraid to have that conversation.
A little bit, you know, that's that compassion
that we talked about right in the very beginning.
It has to stay there. So I'll leave it at that.
Thank you. Thank you.