Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As
always, my name is James Geering, and this week
it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show
Army Special Forces veteran, Dewey Yopp. Now,
in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics
from his journey into the military, his 9 -11
experience, deployment to Afghanistan, Iraq,
the selfless heroism of the indigenous people,
bringing our Afghan allies back to the U .S.
how current immigration policies are sending
the very allies back to Afghanistan, and so much
more. Now, before we get to this incredible conversation,
as I say every week, please just take a moment.
Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe
to the show, leave feedback, and leave a rating.
Every single five -star rating truly does elevate
this podcast, therefore making it easier for
others to find. And this is a free library of
almost 1 ,200 episodes now. So all I ask in return
is that you help share these incredible men and
women's stories so I can get them to every single
person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.
So with that being said, I introduce to you...
Dewey Yop. Enjoy. So Dewey, I want to start by
saying thank you so much for taking the time
and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.
It's my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me,
James. So, first question, where on planet Earth
are we finding you this afternoon? I'm in a small
community in Vine Grove, Kentucky, between Fort
Campbell and Fort Knox. Brilliant. What's the
weather been like for you at the moment with
this massive storm again? It's a little better.
We got some sunshine today. We've had about almost
10 inches of snow. It's been below freezing.
It was seven degrees the other morning. Today
was 17. So it looks like it might hang around
the 20s today. It's not too bad. Well, I want
to start at the very beginning of your timeline.
So tell me where you were born and tell me a
little bit about your family dynamic, what your
parents did, how many siblings. All right. Well,
I was born in Valdosta, Georgia, Moody Air Force
Base. My father was an enlisted man during the
Korean War. And he went to OCS. He was an infantry
branch, but he spent his career in Army aviation.
My mother was a homemaker. She graduated from
college. And I have one sibling, a sister, Teresa,
lives in Hampton, Virginia. And we went to school
in Hampton. I didn't have a father in the household.
I had a really great aunt and uncle that watched
out for us. And I got to go to military school
thanks to them. And I went to Fork Union Military
Academy. I was there in the seventh grade through
the junior high level. And then I finally begged
my parents to let me out of there and graduate
from a civilian high school. So at that point,
I was in. northern virginia and i graduated from
wakefield high school in 1974 and shortly thereafter
i went into service into the army you mentioned
that your dad was in the korean war i think that's
one of the most heartbreaking things about our
recent military history is you have world war
ii where you know arguably at least there was
a lot of um gratitude when people came home.
And then the Vietnam War is thought of the other
way, you know, where people are being spit on
and called baby killers when they come home,
even though there was a massive draft for that
as well. And in the middle, there's this group
of men and women that went overseas. And if you
look at the, there's a really good graphic that's
out on the internet, how close Korea got to being
completely overrun and what the allies did to
push them back all the way to the, you know,
to the middle point again. It really breaks my
heart. I can't imagine being a veteran of that
conflict when it's barely even acknowledged what
they did. So what were some of the stories or
kind of reflections you had from your father's
service? He didn't talk much about the Korean
War, to be honest. He did speak to me on a few
occasions about his time in service in Vietnam.
He flew an OV -1 Mohawk. It's a reconnaissance
aircraft, but it was outfitted with rockets.
So they would do reconnaissance missions for
Special Forces and MACV and the command elements
down there, you know, taking photographs and
that type of thing. So his aircraft was shot
up quite a bit and it got a nickname of Old Yeller.
It had so many bullet hole patches on it. And
after a while, they turned kind of a yellow color.
So it just stuck. But he had. If I remember correctly,
he had 10 air medals. So that's pretty impressive
there with his combat time. An air medal is like
the equivalent to a bronze star, I think, if
I remember right. But yeah, his service there
was twice. He went over early in the 60s, and
his last tour was in 1970. And he was the chief
of safety for South Vietnam during that period
of time for aviation. Amazing. As we sit here
now in 2026, the conversation about, you know,
the impact of service on our physical mental
health is, you know, very, very different. And
we're having a very progressive conversation
these days. When you reflect back now with this
kind of, you know, mature lens that you have,
were there any kind of impacts that you recognize
in your father when you were young as far as
the impacts of war? Oh, yes, I definitely do.
I could, you know, back then. You know, the PTSD,
that wasn't even, you know, the acronym. I'd
never heard of it. And those veterans kept it
to themselves mostly. And sadly, you know, a
lot of them succumbed to alcohol and other substance
abuses to, you know, to find themselves or get
relief. PTSD, post -traumatic stress disorder,
and be in environments where, you know, you're
put in situations where, you know, the human
mind has to react quickly and in a violent manner.
And those things stick with you, hard to forget
type experiences. And everybody has their own
level of dealing with these things. And as a
veteran. Of Iraq and Afghanistan, I can say that
for me, you know, it's been a long process getting
back to finding myself again and getting interested
in the things I do. But it's it's not an easy
thing. And it's it's lifelong, you know, and
it's good to have a support group. My family
has been awesome through my. progress with PTSD.
I have CPTSD. I don't know if you ever heard
of that complex. Some people say, or it's chronic,
but everybody has their own level and how to
deal with those things. But there's opportunities
and organizations out there that, you know, we
didn't have that when I was on active duty. These
are things that have become more useful and prevalent.
In the community, you know, with veterans and
the VA and NGOs, as far as that goes, there's
some really awesome NGOs out there that support
veterans with PTSD. It's interesting with the
term complex PTSD, because the more I've learned
over the last almost a decade now of conversations
like this with not only, you know, people in
uniform, but, you know, psychologists, psychiatrists,
neuroscientists. is that it's a perfect storm
of all the things. So you've got unaddressed
childhood trauma, you've got sleep deprivation,
but then as we're going to talk about later in
this conversation, you've got organizational
betrayal and moral injury, where organizations
that you fought for would die for and now turn
their back. So there are so many pieces to this
puzzle. I think this is why we failed so miserably
early on. Because, you know, whether you're military
or first responder, like, oh, it's what Dewey
saw in war. It's what James saw, you know, in
a fire. But that's just a tiny part of it. And
if you're not addressing all the other pieces,
you're never going to get to the bottom of it.
That's exactly right, James. So what about going
back to your young years? What were you playing
as far as sports and exercise? I played football,
baseball, and I got into... martial arts later
on when I was at military school, actually. And
taekwondo. I achieved black belt in taekwondo.
But, you know, those sports today, I love football.
I just can't play it anymore. But I enjoy sports.
Those were the activities I had growing up. And
I love the outdoors. I love to fish and hunt
as well. It's a really relaxing to get on a lake
or somewhere or even on the shore and just sit
there, throw a line in the water. You don't even
have to have bait on it. Just kick back and enjoy
nature. But that's pretty much it. When I was
a kid, I was fortunate enough. My mother's family
had a huge farm down in the central part of North
Carolina in Sampson County. So I'd go down there
on the summer and I'd stay all summer, three
months down there. Whatever was going on, picking
watermelons, cotton. I wasn't all that hot picking
cotton. That stuff cut you up and I whined a
lot. So I hung out in the shade and toted water
to the real workers. But kind of lifestyle got
me into that mindset, you know, that country
type living lifestyle. So that was a pleasure
in my life. I think about it a lot. Still have
good connections there in Samson County. Yeah,
it was an interesting childhood there. My mom,
she worked in Newport News, Virginia, and she
sewed linings and coffins. That's what she did
for a living to support my sister and I. It's
kind of unique, too, James. I had a job when
I was under the age of 16. I was a paper boy,
and I had 200 papers I'd deliver every day before
school. And I'd get my sister afterwards and
I'd ride her in the bicycle down to the elementary
school. We were still in elementary school then.
But, you know, my sister and I are real tight
to this day. She looks after my mother now. My
mother just had a birthday on January 20th. She's
96. Still hanging tough. And sis is keeping hold
of her. So I'm blessed. I got good people in
my life, James. That's amazing. It's funny with
the longevity conversation, you know, when we
were younger, I know it just seemed like people
lived till they were 60 ish. And here we are
now. And we're just surrounded by people that
have got this, you know, amazing lifespan. My
grandmother died a few weeks shy of 105. Wow.
You know, this for four years middle age, we
need to rethink that because you have a long
way to go if you stay healthy. So that's true.
That's true. I hope so. I'm getting up there
myself, James. So I got a birthday coming up
next month. I have two. When is yours? Which
day? 13th. Okay. Mine is the 29th. I'll be 52.
Awesome. Awesome. I got a daughter almost that
age. There we go. Well, going back to career
-wise, you mentioned being in a military school.
Were you already dreaming of entering the military
then, or was there something else in your mind
at the time? Not really. I think it had a lot
to do with my drifting away from family and getting
involved with hooligans there in the city. And
my uncle wanted me to see what discipline was
like. My grades were failing. All that changed
once I got to military school. I, you know, I
made real good grades. I was a good little trooper
and all that stuff. So, you know, four years
of that and then I get out, you know, I kind
of was looking at what I could do and what was
waiting on me there in Hampton. So for a while
I worked on scallop boats. That was real interesting,
offshore scallop boats. You know, when I graduated
from high school, that's the time period I'm
talking about. Right at that time period, I worked
on the ocean. Then I said, you know, this is
not really for me. So I joined the Army. It's
one of the best things I ever did. The Army really
raised me. Why the Army? Why that branch specifically?
I guess it had to do with my father, you know,
and it was odd. My father. said don't go in the
army don't go airborne don't go to these other
schools and stuff just you know you'll find your
way you know and uh the next thing he he knew
i was at uh fort jackson south carolina going
through boot camp so talk to me about your on
-ramp then were you already thinking about special
forces or did you just think regular army initially
Yeah, regular Army. Well, I went to jump school.
I wanted to be airborne. My dad was a paratrooper,
so I kind of got into that. I really enjoyed
that. I was in the 82nd for a little over a year,
and they were building up. It was Camp Stewart,
Georgia. It hadn't been named Fort Stewart then.
They had a ranger detachment, some guys coming
up recruiting, and they were asking them, you
know, in the division, they were getting volunteers
to go down to fill up the battalion down there
at Camp Stewart. So, you know, don't volunteer,
but I did. And so I ended up down at Camp Stewart,
Georgia. I did some time down there, and I left
there, and I went to Korea for a year. When I
got there, it was a big surprise, too. I don't
know if you remember the Operation Paul Bunyan,
but they cut a tree down there on the border
of North Korea and South Korea. It was blocking
observation of North Korea, and they killed a
major and his driver there. They were in a Jeep,
but I was on GDP -115. And there was 116 was
Collier and Ouellette that's on the DMZ. So when
that happened, you know, the whole division's
on alert. So I got a little taste of seeing what,
you know, conflict could be like and actually
seeing, you know, the aftermath of the things
that occurred during that day. So afterwards,
I... I started looking at trying to get into
a field that I could, you know, enjoy and do
the things that I like to do. So I'd gone to
a few LERP schools and what's the other one is
a survival escape and evasion, those types of
things. And then from there, you know, I just
went on to the different parts of my career and
just led me into. the special operations side
of the house. And, you know, that's been a real
eye -opener for me, meeting the people I got
to meet in my life, some outstanding heroes out
there, unknown to the rest of the world, but
they're giants amongst our ilk. But, you know,
a real pleasure. I have a real good buddy that...
He was part of the 12 that first went over in
2021. So he's been very helpful. He's been helpful
with me. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah,
he helped me with the situation we'll probably
talk about here in a little bit. And it's really
helped out, you know, immensely. And I'm thankful
that I've had people like that in my life. What
was it that... allowed you to pass special forces
selection when so many people rang the bell because
one of the i guess myths that we have if we don't
know much about the military is that you need
to look like arnold schwarzenegger to run around
to be special forces but then you get them on
the show rich right is a perfect example one
of the first delta guys marcel um um in uh vietnam
his last deployment was mogadishu so you think
about that career um but i mean one literally
one of the nicest kindest human beings that i
know not physically intimidating you'd think
he was a you know school teacher or something
but you know at that time he's one of the most
trained killers out there so you know you hear
obviously it's not just about this giant physicality
so it's far more the mental side so when people
were ringing the bell what allowed you to continue
It's just determination. You know, wanting it
bad enough. And I mean, you know, I had to go
twice, to be honest. I didn't get to graduate
the first time. So I went around a second time.
And, you know, it's not an easy, you know, as
you know, and everybody else in the world, some
of the things you see on the Internet and those
types of things are very challenging. And the
mental breakdown of it is tremendous. You know,
your mental. attitude has to stay on point and
if you're injured and at one point i was i tried
to hide it i had a uh my left uh is it i had
a big issue with one of my tendons on my left
leg so i ended up having to get recycled again
and i had a cast on that leg and some other things
going on but i ended up you know going i had
to do the pt thing and all that again but uh
you know just because it was a physical injury
and I got back in and, uh, that's it. So what
about kind of, you know, deployments or training
pre nine 11, you know, what, what did it look
like, like before, you know, obviously things
changed dramatically. Well, prior to that, you
know, I mean, it was, uh, you know, we nine 11
really did, uh, You know, it opened up a lot
of eyes across the Department of Defense and
everything else we had going on then. But to,
you know, the training afterwards, you know,
we hadn't really, we had the jungle type guerrilla
warfare. You know, we'd been over to Iraq, which
is, you know, night and day when you get to a
place like Afghanistan. It's 13th century living
there, you know. And, you know, it's just two
different places. that you have to deal with,
not only with the environment, but the type of,
you know, the culture and the people. And it
just, you know, it complicates a lot of things.
So when you get involved in that, you go over
there with a lot of information, but you haven't
put it into any practical exercise that could
truly be meaningful. You could discuss it and
do. sand tables and you know mock operations
and talk about this and that but actually getting
on the ground and getting there and see how that's
going to work out is a whole different story
because there's going to be some concerns when
your foot hits the ground and you're looking
around for your contact and they don't show up
and you know there you are what you're going
to do then so you have to think about these things
and uh you know always have a plan b c and And,
you know, the extract, you know, finally, if
that's what it takes to stay alive. So talk to
me about 9 -11, then we'll move forward. What
was that day like for you specifically? Well,
I happened to be on leave in northern New Jersey
and a place called Verona. I was with a friend
of mine in a coffee shop, and all of a sudden,
the TV came on, people came in, and they said
some planes hit the towers. And I went outside,
and from that area in Verona, you can see down
into New York. So we drove to a place about,
it's 10 minutes away, and it's up on the high
ground, and we could see. The Twin Towers burning.
You could see the smoke coming out of there.
And let me tell you, in that whole neighborhood
there, there wasn't a person that wasn't on the
street watching and listening and just in shock
and awe of what was going on. So that's where
I was. And then, of course, you know, get back
to the unit. And then, you know, the folks that
went over initially in 2001 and then. from that
time period you know lessons learned and information
exchanged to the rear for those coming back going
over you know 2002 and whatever some of those
guys those two 2021 guys are 2002 the guys that
went over first they they bounced to iraq after
a period of time they had gone to iraq And other
elements had taken over responsibilities, training,
that type of thing on the ground in Afghanistan,
for instance. We're talking about 9 -11 and all
the hoopla about Osama bin Laden being in Afghanistan
and being up in the Tora Bora and all that kind
of stuff and then ending up being in Pakistan
all that time. is, you know, those types of things
unfold, you know, and you have people on the
ground looking and hunting. Someone on that,
you know, caused this stuff. It can get in -depth,
you know, with the personnel and intel you have.
So when you first land in Afghanistan, obviously
we're going to talk a lot about... the heroism
of a lot of the Afghan people and what they did
alongside the allied nations and what they risked,
their families risked. What was the kind of first
interaction for you with the Afghan people and
then some of the people that you started working
alongside? All right. When I arrived in country,
I didn't come with an American entourage. I came
as a civilian through the Kabul airport. And
I was dressed in Afghan traditional attire for
a male, polka hat and scarf and all that stuff.
So I had a contact I was going to meet there
at the airport. I had no clue what they looked
like. All I knew is they had a little sign that
had this three letters on it. So when I got there,
there was a riot going on at the airport. But
first, when we're landing, I'm looking out the
plane window and I'm not kidding you. You see,
Soviet, this is the old airport now, the new
airport. It may be cleaned up now, but back then,
there were Soviet aircraft, fuselages, crashed
in the grass area of the airport. And we're landing.
I'm looking at those things. They've been there,
you know, what, 10 years or more? And they're
still there, untouched. And we're landing. I'm
looking out the window, and I'm seeing vultures
sitting on these. lights on the runway you know
some of the lights are blue some are out some
are not and there's these vultures hanging out
and i'm thinking to myself oh yeah nice so i
get into the airport and it's total chaos in
there and i finally get to the front of the airport
and i see this young man standing there and he's
got a like a three by five card with these letters
on it that's my guy so i get with him and we
push our way through the crowd And there's a
driver there. Both these guys, you know, are
Afghan postumes. And they're armed. And we get
in this car and we drive through Kabul, through
Amasud Circle. We get to that point. There's
a crane. There's a crane with a guy hanging by
the neck from this crane. So I'm thinking, OK,
and now we're going to a safe house. So I'm riding
through there. We're talking. My cultural advisor
interpreter, I'm going to call him Amir. That's
not his real name. But Amir's chatting it up
with me, man. He just can't stand it. You know,
I'm an American. We're going to do these things,
blah, blah, blah. And he's telling me, I'm looking
at him like, you know, how long is it going to
be before we get there? And I feel a little bit
more safer. You know, this is what I'm thinking.
And he's, you know, he's trying to make me feel
at ease and calm. So we finally get there. And
it's outside of the city between Phoenix was
the name of the compound. It was Phoenix and,
you know, the Kabul place here. There's a police
station on the way also, a big police station.
I ended up getting arrested. I spent, you know,
a day in there, but I'll get to that. Anyway,
so we get to the safe house and it's really it's
it's an awesome place. It's got a big huge, it's
like a 20 foot wall, got iron gates. It's got
a couple of dudes in the tower. And I find out
later they're former Gurkhas that, you know,
they're working for Uncle Sam. Yeah. So anyway,
they I get in there and I meet the other folks
there and we discuss what's going to happen the
next few days. It was really interesting. They
had connects stacked on top of each other inside
this compound. And it wasn't big at all, James.
It was like 30 yards wide, 50 yards deep. And
across the street, there was a civilian market,
kind of like a Sam's Club or something like that.
You could get frozen food and coffee, you know,
that kind of stuff. I went in there twice. But
anyway. But it was on the outskirts of the city,
so anywhere I went and traveled, I did as a civilian.
So I didn't have a lot of contact with the military
people. I did, at Camp Edwards, I had a cell
of folks that I would brief up on who I thought
was a bad guy, you know, when I started working
and mingling amongst the Afghan army. And there's
a lot of diversity there in the army as well.
And Hazara, Pashtun, et cetera. And then so you
have issues and concerns with making sure you're
staying on a good plane with everyone, regardless
of their heritage or their tribal affiliation.
But that does come into play quite a bit. The
affiliations that they have, you know, and I
mean, once you get outside the city of Kabul,
you know, the rest of the population, you know,
Kabul might as well be on the moon, bro, because
they're not going to do any help. They're not
going to help nobody. There's no way to reach
them. You know, it's just that they're on your
own. So you got to have your own laws, you know,
that type of thing, you know, and it's worked.
But unfortunately, you know, things things didn't
work out the way. I thought they would at least,
you know, after 20 years. Talk to me about that
tribal element, because I've had a lot of people
on the show now, some Afghan and then many, you
know, from your community. And obviously hindsight
is 20 -20. But one of the biggest, I guess, criticisms
was that. The mentality was almost like you have
this country and it was unified. But when you
actually got to Afghanistan, as you just alluded
to, there's all these kind of micro tribes within
the country itself. Yeah. You know, the biggest
tribe is Pashtun. And then you have Hazaras,
Zabakis. You, Becky, you know, they all infiltrate
their families, just like us. You know, if you
go over the border, marry a cousin, you end up
living there, that type of thing. But those cultures
and their family traditions and those things
don't change. So they keep them up amongst their
tribes, you know, each one, each individual,
you know, and they affiliate from like, you know,
there's so many different. tribal names you can
get to. And it depends on what province you're
from and where you live. But the dialects there,
you know, it's like, okay, British and English,
like Farsi and Dari. That's what it would be
like. You know, we understand each other, but
that accent's there a little bit, that type of
thing. So you adjust that. And it's just, it
takes a lot of effort and patience. You know,
especially in the training process. You know,
something I learned when I first got over there
about Afghan education was, you know, it's limited.
You know, a lot of can't read or write and didn't
know the birthdays, that type of thing. You know,
so it was an eye opener for me. And, you know,
those things you work through. And then when
you're training like that, you know, you leave
that out. But you can see still. You know, those
groups would hang out together and be together
more, you know, in that environment. Those soldiers
I'm talking about, you know, the diversity. So
they would hang out with each other and everybody
like that. But when, you know, it was time to
chill, they would be with their own people, you
know. So I got to say this, you know, the most
hospitable people I ever met in my life, James.
I mean, didn't know me from Adam. Travel around
with my, you know, a foot or in a civilian vehicle
and just by word of mouth and from contacts from
previous Afghan army commanders and general officers,
you know, their families. I stayed with the people
like that when I would travel and they would
open their home up, you know, the hot chai, the
food. And they treated me like family. I mean,
really, it was it just blew my mind, you know,
and I was like the. the treasure they found in
the cracker jacks the kids would salsa around
you know and it was just one of those things
you know it was a lot of interesting uh things
that i experienced there in the job that i had
and uh it was uh it was something else well that's
what i hear over and over again i ask usually
a two -part question and in the other half the
first part is obviously you know what what the
bad side was with who the people that you were
hunting, what were the atrocities that people
were seeing? Because in the news, you get a very
kind of polarized perspective back home, which
is either let God sort them out, you know, kill
them all, let God sort them out, or they're all
baby killers. And obviously there's nuances in
the middle. But over and over and over again,
you heard, you know, soldiers and airmen and
all these people that were on the ground say
it was like being back home. You know, there
was a dad fixing his car and, you know, mom was
making dinner. And maybe that can be reversed
in America. But, you know, you get what I'm saying.
And the kids were playing. And, you know, it's
the same human experiences that we want. So when
we kind of paint the air quotes bad guy, you
know, and then these men and women in uniform
find themselves on the ground. Yeah, of course,
there are some horrific people. You kind of get
that tar everyone with the same brush, but they
get down. And as you said, there's all these
stories of kindness and compassion and courage
from the men and women that they're there to
protect. Exactly. Yep. That's true. You know,
and when you actually see it, you know, and amongst
the horrific things that, you know, it's unavoidable,
you know, and it's those types of things stick
with you. But when you see that humanity. You
know, that compassion that others have and the
interest, you know, the curiosity, that type
of thing. And then through that, you build a
relationship. And then from there, and I still
to this day, I have a good friend in Herat. It's
near the border. And they've lived there, their
entire family. You know, they've got this home
that has been there since eons. It goes back
like 500 years. But that family I still am in
touch with. They do produce. They have a produce
market, so they do produce. Apples, oranges,
that kind of stuff. Vegetables. Just so we can
set the... the scene on the other side, you know,
not only what our soldiers were facing, but also
the immense danger to the Afghan people themselves.
Talk to me about, you know, the horrific people
that were also in Afghanistan at this time. There's,
you know, it's really, it's hard to put a finger
on some of those characters. There's some, you
know, there's a handful of them dead. But all
the prevalent ones now, you know, I spent a lot
of time in Kandahar. And I tell you, that place
is is festering. It's just it needs to. It's
bad, bad, bad, bad. And the the atrocities that
I witnessed, not the aftermath of these things
that I saw. It's just unbelievable how a human
being could do that to another human being. It's
just beyond me. It's just sickening. But that
type of thing goes on, and it has to do with
that type of the, you know, barbaric 13th century
mindset, you know, the brutality. I mean, look
what's going on over there now. I mean, it's
insane, the things they're getting away with
over there. the degradation of, you know, the
society and the women, the children, you know,
they're suffering so much. And, you know, it
seems like everybody else, you know, with going
on, once we, I call it a retreat, James, once
we retreated from Afghanistan, you know, the
whole world opened up and we did witness, you
know, what's going on now, you know, started
out with Ukraine and Russia, then it's Gaza.
So on and so forth. And then Africa has always
been bad there, but that's getting worse and
worse as time goes on. And now we got, you know,
on our side of the world now, Venezuela, you
know, South America again. I did a little time
down that way with Uncle Wally back in the day.
But I was only there for about a month, though,
thank God. That's a miserable place. Talking
about heat. So with that being said, with that
level of danger and not just, you know, losing
your life, but we don't need to, you know, get
too graphic. But the things that you're talking
about, the fear that that strikes into the heart
of people. Talk to me about then the courage
that you witnessed from these Afghan people,
whether they were fighting alongside you, whether
they were interpreters, whether they were, you
know, you know, whatever the role was so that
we can set the stage of what. these men and women
did for us, for the U .S. themselves? Well, fortunately,
I wasn't involved in a bunch of firefights, but
I had a few, you know, involved in one. We were
coming back. I went to I was at Camp Hero in
Kandahar, and I left there to go to Kandahar
City. Now, you know, everybody talks about Kandahar
and the airport and all that. That's American
-built stuff there. When we talk about the city,
that's north. I think it's like 10Ks or a little
more than that. Anyway, Kandahar City. So I went
up there to buy a generator so we could run our
little satellite stuff and do our deal. So I
did buy a generator. On the way back, we got
ambushed and he killed the driver. And the place
is full of Taliban. I mean, when we got there,
you could see the black flags with, you know,
the Taliban signature on it and so on. And there's
a Russian barracks there, an old Russian barracks.
And that's where our contact was living then.
They were living there. So we'd gone there and
got the generator, put it in the hoopty we were
in. It was a it was a. old opal of something.
I think it was an opal. And we were in that.
Anyway, we got ambushed. The driver got killed.
And then then Amir and myself were the only ones
there. So I drugged the we got the generator
out and drug it in this alley. And we talked
to some people and they secured it. We sent some
guys there the next day and we got the generator
back. But we started on foot walking back towards
Kandahar. You know. the American air base there.
And on the way, we noticed there was a firefight
going on out there between the mountain range
and the airport area. And it was an ANA unit
out there in a gunfight with the Taliban. So
I told Sam, I says, you know, we're going to
have to get some help because it's nighttime.
Look at us. You know, we're going to mess around
and get zapped ourselves. So we took our time
and we eased up within about, you know. I'm going
to say 100 yards of those guys. And they were
busy. They had the spotlights on and stuff. They
had the Ford Ranger trucks with these Soviet
machine guns on top just laying waste to this.
It was like a rubble of a village there and stuff.
There was a dead mule out there or a donkey.
There was a couple of small fires and just constant
automatic weapon fire. And you could hear people
yelling. So we got up there. And Amir started
hollering in Pashtun. So the guy turned around
and he put a light on us and we laid down on
our bellies. And Amir kept telling them, you
know, hey, we're good guys. We're here. We know
so -and -so, this and that. We started using
names of commanders and things that were on the
base. They're Afghans. So the guys came over
there. One guy came over and got us. And we walked
over to the vehicle. And, you know, we were squatted
down the whole time. We had our heads down moving
over there. We squatted behind this Ford Ranger.
And we sat there, you know, for a few minutes.
And, you know, the gunfire was still going on
pretty good. It lasted probably about 40 minutes.
And anyway, I had a Kalashnikov. I carried, I
think I'm crazy, but I carried a NAG Soviet 1895
pistol. And it was a 7 .62 by 38 millimeter.
That was my sidearm. And then I had an AK -47.
So I shut the AK mag up and I was putting another
one. And then Amir looks at me and grabs me by
the collar and he says, arm me. He didn't have
a weapon. I said, fool, I can't arm you. I said,
go over and grab about 10 yards away. There was
a Taliban laying there dead. And I said, go grab
that weapon. I said, I'll cover you. Get on,
get it. And he looked at me and told me, he says,
are you stoned? Just like that. So I hopped up.
I ran over and I grabbed this weapon and I ran
back real quick. And I said, here. And I gave
it to him. He said, he calls me Baba. That means
father. He says, Baba, this is a piece of. And
I looked at it. The buttstock was all shot up.
It had some rounds through it and everything.
So I grabbed it. I charged the handle back and
I fired a few rounds off on it and I gave it
back to him. I said, it still works. Use it.
So from that point on, he carried that weapon
the rest of our time together over there. And
I had eight and a half years in country. So he
had that thing fixed up, buddy. Let me tell you,
it was painted. It had all this cool stuff on
it. You know, the Afghan flag. Yeah, he was proud
of that. I don't know what he did with it, but
that was his baby from then on. I've had a few
people on the show. One of them was, again, it's
a pseudonym, it's not his real name, but Rasul
Rasek. He was Mushahideen. And then I think he
actually literally was one of the men that interacted
with the horse soldiers when they first came
over. And he came on really talking about Afghanistan
after the withdrawal, the retreat, as you called
it. And the impact of the Afghan people after
we'd all left. But one of the things that he
said, one of the things that some of the special
forces guys have said as well, is early on that
you were really having an impact. And then when
they started pulling troops over to Iraq, that
momentum got cleaved. So talk to me about that.
I wasn't privy to all the insides there with
the ground groups. You know, my my mission was
on the training process and being embedded in
the army, you know, because I had 19 NATO weapon
systems to train their army on. And that, you
know, it's both sides and it's the police force
and Afghan National Army. So there's a lot of
stuff to talk about there. But as far as, you
know, them going to Iraq, I could see, you know,
and I could understand why that. There was a
void there for a while because you built a friendship,
a brotherhood, a trust early on with the initial
people that got on the ground over there. I know
a couple of them and outstanding individuals
to this day. And they're pro -Afghan crazy, man.
One just spoke up in Congress recently. You know,
outstanding. But, you know, those things that
we've neglected to do. You know, and those relationships,
you know, when you bring new people on board,
you have to rebuild that. And those rotations,
you know, for, you know, you're looking at six
months, you know, if you have to stay eight months,
it's special, you know, getting permission like
that. So, you know, there's always a turnaround.
And then, you know, after a while, there's, you
know, your people on the ground, the Afghans
looking at, you know, and then the corruption
comes in. You know, they took a they took a beautiful
thing in cultural thing that Afghans have, you
know, about when you meet somebody of a title
or of importance, you know, you always want to
be, you know, congenial, bring a small gift,
you know, something. And it just got blown out
of proportion and kept growing and growing. And,
you know, we knew about this. I mean, everybody
I know knew about. the corruption within the
Afghan army. And it had a lot to do with the
equipment we had. Let me tell you, I had some
fights over getting weapons parts from Afghan,
uh, core commanders because they owned it, but
I'm trying to use it to benefit their soldiers.
And, you know, it was a, we had to go around
the table a few times to make them understand,
you know, and get that cooperation. But thank
God I had the longevity there. So, you know,
uh, But those other folks that had to rotate,
it's difficult. And they would come back and
then, you know, that old bond would be built
again. In some of those cases, you know, the
guys would come back and re -energize or perhaps
be in a whole different area. But over a period
of time, they would have the experience they
had on the ground, negative or positive. And
a lot of it, they were sheltered from. You know,
the communities and things like that. I had the
experience of, you know, the pleasure of that.
And then I said the honor, really, of being amongst
the people and seeing their lifestyles and how
they lived. And, you know, those types of things
that the soldier was out there in the bush, you
know, pulling triggers and throwing hand grenades.
You know, they have a different outlook on, you
know, that. that type of thing. But again, you
know, you build the bonds with your interpreters
and your cultural advisors, uh, the guys you
work with those soldiers and, uh, you know, you
start caring about them. They become a part of
your, your life really. And especially if they
save your life, uh, like my guy did, you know,
four separate occasions. He, uh, you know, I'm
lucky to be here, honestly. And, uh, you know,
it's like he told me, he says, you know, You
say that about me is what he's saying to me.
And he says, you know, but you saved me. Look
who you saved, Baba. You know, and it's that
type of emotion. You know, I get emotional when
I talk about those guys, man. It's so, so, so
bad, so sad for them. You know, a lot of them
don't have that opportunity anymore. You know,
it's a constant struggle. You know, their lifestyle
over there, man. You know, it's an existence,
really, because you got to get up, chop the wood,
build the fire, chase the chicken around or get
the eggs, milk the cow, that type of lifestyle.
You know, if you're not living in the city and
have money, a decent job, the effort you put
into life is through your own hands and your
family members. You know, and it's a difficult
lifestyle. It really is. Not everybody, even
the folks we have in America that are living
on a lower level. than we live are living better
than afghan families are you know they have we
have the benefits in this country and things
that support them they don't it's by their own
will and you know fortitude to make it through
the day or the year talk to me about your perspective
of the iraq conflict when when 9 -11 first happened
and then shortly after we were going to iraq
you know immediately having you know being someone
who understood geography a little bit i'm like
well those are two very different countries and
this seems to all be being lumped into the response
to 9 -11 um now fast forward to recent conversations
you're getting a lot of veterans from the iraqi
conflict that served over there that are really
questioning you know why were we there now not
in any way shape or form undermining the impact
that they make because obviously when they were
in country they were protecting people against
bad you know people and they were you know building
schools and all these things that you hear about
on the other that aren't on the news the kind
of altruistic side so a thousand percent made
a difference but the overall mission and some
of the reasons that they were told they were
going in the first place we now know weren't
entirely factual. So with that, also pulling
resources from Afghanistan, what is your perspective
of the Iraq conflict in general? Well, you know,
we went over there with good intentions. And,
you know, we had great support from NATO, all
that going on. And it, well, you know, just the
society there is more modern to start with. You
know, I mean, it's just... That environment itself
was, you know, it's just night and day, James.
I mean, and the people, you know, it was, you
know, I rode up the Highway of Death, they called
it. And we'd pick up principals from the office,
from the airport and bring them back. And we'd
fly around to different places, you know, for
meetings, et cetera. But going up and down that
highway every day, you know, we'd get hellion.
poured on us. You know, we had these, they were
French, white French vehicles, you know, with
gun turret on it and all that. But man, they
always replacing the windows and tires and that
kind of stuff, you know. And, you know, so they
started using aircraft, of course, you know,
we kept complaining and bitching about, you know,
I don't know about this. And then coming back
with this guy, you know, a four -star general
or a senator, and you're going to let them experience
that? I don't think that's a good idea, man.
So we started doing a lot more aircraft movement
and that kind of thing and being more secure
with that type of movement. But yeah, that's
a whole different environment. And why we were
there is one of the things. It was the weapons
of mass destruction going over there looking
for that stuff. And that was all a forest. And
that's part of it. where we are today with the
country again. And, you know, the president's
involved right now. I hate to see us get back
on the ground anywhere in the world. You know,
totally. I don't see, you know, trying to support
an element, for instance, like Afghanistan, you
know. I'm saying we need another Charlie Wilson.
If you didn't see that movie. We need some help
there. And that's going to help a lot of things
in the world because there's so much negative
terroristic activities. And folks over there
in Afghanistan now, it's 10 times worse than
it was. And it's just growing every day. The
madrasas, you know, it's insane. And Iraq as
a whole, it's just we were there for a period
of time unsuccessfully. And now we're back involved
in the political concerns the people have there.
You know, and Iran's another one, you know, that
it's going to raise its ugly head again. Taking
a massive tangent, if you were, I don't used
to say king, but this is going to have to be
ruling the entire planet for this answer. if
you could literally kind of wave a magic wand
what will we need to do to finally learn from
history that is just wrought with lessons and
and start de -escalating so many of these conflicts
around the world starting with on our own soil
here wow well first off we've got to learn to
to uh understand and abide by laws and what Our
country was built on was our rights, our Bill
of Rights, our Congress and our Senate and all
the political parts of our country's operation
daily. And then you get to the civilians and,
you know, the different states. We have to learn
to get along a lot better than we have been doing
and to see the things on. You know, I see those
things on TV and it's like third world country
action to me. where you got people in paramilitary
uniforms and, you know, they're carrying weapons.
Unfortunately, there's been two uncalled for
deaths. And, you know, those types of things
going on in our country right now. And we need
to get a hold on it because, you know, it's not
just that. Let's go back again and talk about,
you know, the moral injury that's caused millions
of veterans after 20 years of war in Afghanistan.
multiplied by what we see today, I'm thinking
in my own mind, you know, is there something
greater going to happen? I mean, you know, tremendous.
Is there going to be a revolution? What's going
on in this country right now? It's really, you
know, something that an eye opening thing that
we need to get a hold of pretty quick. I'm glad
to see the action being taken there by the president
and removing and placing other things in place.
And hopefully they'll get a hold on it. And that's
what we got to do. We got to work together closely
together more and understand, you know, each
state has its own set of governments and things
within its bodies, you know, in their little
civil societies and every little town and so
on. So, you know, when you go in there with a
entourage of folks with an attitude about we're
hunting bad guys and then. they're doing more
damage to the population than they are doing
to the bad guys, then, you know, we need to rethink
that process. I think, I mean... I just don't
think it's black and white as well what constitutes
a bad guy when it comes to immigration, because
I think there's a nuance. You know, you've got
people that have come here and we're going to
get to it. For example, people that helped us
in the conflicts we've already talked about,
or maybe they just came across the border or
they were carried as an infant, didn't have much
of a conversation, spent 30, 40 years. And now
they're being shipped back to a country that
they've never known. They don't even have a house
in. You know, so to me, there needs to be a kind
of grandfathering in for people that have proven
themselves. And I always say this, the people
that should be the most pissed off are the people
like myself who paid thousands of dollars and
did immigration air quotes properly. Like we're
the ones who have an issue and I don't. And no
one's saying that we don't want the people that
are a detriment to our country to be removed.
And absolutely, those are the ones that should
be hunted down. Just the way you hunt down a
burglar or a rapist or a murderer or anything.
But people that are just undocumented, if you
grandfathered them in, well, now they're paying
taxes. Now that's a win -win. But hunting them
down and snatching them from their children.
creating this you know horrendous tension that
you're talking about nothing good is going to
come from that we can already see it absolutely
i agree with you james you're right and uh you
know you know the tragic deaths you know that
that's just uncalled for you know those actions
really and to see it in our society today but
again you know look how that look out You know,
I just go back to the retreat again of Kabul.
And since then, and look at how everything is
just gone to hell, literally, in the world. And
it's in our country now more so than it has been.
One of my guests made a really astute observation,
and I talk about it all the time. He said, America
is supposed to be the poster child of democracy.
He said, so if you're looking at that poster,
what are you thinking about that philosophical
idea? And I agree with him 100%. If we beat our
chest and just say we're the greatest country
in the world, but don't put any work into it,
then fast forward 20, 30 years. Now you've got
a population that's 75 % overweight or obese.
Our school children are rehearsing their murders
in their school. 100 ,000 Americans die from
opioids every year. You know what I mean? I mean,
we're not the best. So we have to stop saying
that, have the humility. But we have an opportunity
to be such an incredibly powerful influence in
a good way. If we really invested in our country
and made it phenomenal and took care of the things
that are not working and asked Finland and Norway
and Japan and Portugal and all these other countries
that are doing those areas really well. Now people
look at America and go, wow, they've got their
shit together in that country. Maybe this democracy
thing is worth a try. But right now, when we're
seeing what's on our news, do you think anyone's
going to be trying democracy or is it going to
be viewed the same way as we view communism in
North Korea? Yes, pretty much. You know, I got
I got to agree with you. And that was an astute
observation. Yeah. You know, and that has a lot
to do with what we live the way, you know, our
lives, what's involved. What we see, what we
interact with, you know, and again, you know,
going back to, you know, our relationships with
allies overseas in different places. And then
like yourself, you know, getting here legally.
And then, you know, I agree, you know, hunting
down the illegals and the bad folks. I'm all
about that. But doing it in the manner we have
been doing is not the right way to do it. When
you start inflicting terror and. and making people
hide, not go to the store and not going to school.
You know, that's it's time to rethink what we
need to do with operations within our own country.
You know, so we don't look, you know, we already
look bad to the world, in my opinion. You know,
I mean, it's sad to say, but we've got a lot
of work to do to gain back that trust. And, you
know, the willingness of folks coming here is
just, you know, it's like. There's not very many
countries that are going to accept refugees at
this point. There's just a handful. So, you know,
the queue line is pretty long. And if you have
a case, for instance, that's, you know, you're
requesting expedited because of extreme danger
or their ages of the people or something of this
nature, you know, you could probably get in a
little quicker, but it's going to take some time.
And a lot of effort. But those actions that we
see today in America, you know, it's like I'm
going to say America is afraid to have Afghans,
you know, come back into our country, you know,
because we had a couple of bad seeds. So it's
like anything else, you know, when one person
does, you know, from Afghanistan, they're here.
And, you know, like that guy drove across country,
you know, and that just gives a bad name to everybody.
You know, and that's what people that don't understand,
you know, the commitment we have and the veterans
that were involved in 20 years of war. I mean,
come on. You got to have a relationship somewhere,
man. You know, whether it's good or bad, but
hopefully it's positive. And we can see a lot
of that in the communities we live in. You know,
there's people out there that have gone above
and beyond to get their allies here to America,
to Canada. Europe, you know, different places.
But, you know, it's not been an easy task for
anyone due to the, you know, the negative view
the world has on, I think, America as a whole.
I mean, look at our immigration policy now. Ain't
nobody getting in here. Not unless you're a Venezuelan
and you got a sack full of money or something
like that. Or a white South African for some
reason. Oh, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
It is crazy, though, because if you think about
it, it would be like saying you're going to get
rid of all black people in America because of
the D .C. shooter. Yeah, it's insane. It's a
mental health crisis, what we have. It happens
to be Afghan. I mean, there was an Australian
that killed all those poor people in the mosque
in New Zealand. You know, now you're going to
stop all Aussies from going to New Zealand. You
know what I mean? We've got to identify it as
these are sick people who committed sick acts.
It's not about the religion or the race or the
nationality. It's it's a broken mind by that
point, because, I mean, I think one thing that
we really forget is if you had an Afghan and
a French and a Nepalese and a British, you know,
a group of toddlers and you put a ball amongst
them, what are they going to do? They're going
to kick the ball around and run and laugh and
fall over and pick flowers and pet the dog. They're
not going to think, well, hold on a second. You're
a Muslim. I can't play a ball. You know what
I mean? We all start off as human beings and
then we get labeled and segregated. And then
under, you know, cowardly, you know, leadership,
I'm using air quotes, you'll get divided and
set upon each other. And this is where we are
now. Yeah, I agree. And it's sad, you know, but
it's, you know, we see, you know, it's more prevalent
because we have. you know, the media in our face
a lot more in these times than in the past times.
But we see it a lot more. But, you know, on a
big scale, I honestly still have faith in humanity,
James. There's more of us out there. And, you
know, a lot of them are united through these
NGOs. But in my case, and I'm not whining, it's
really been extra challenging being by myself
and working through these processes to have folks
come here legally. You know, and it it takes
it's quite time consuming and a lot of research
and making sure that the documents are correct
and there won't be any questions and that type
of thing. It's a lot of effort. But I got to
say, some of those one of those cases that puzzled
me about the guy driving across the country and
shooting folks is, you know, I don't. Understand,
you know, he got here, but I don't think his
support group had set him up correctly because
from what I understand, he didn't have a work
permit. He couldn't work. Guy's got a family
and there were state benefits and things going
on that kept being taken away. And it just got
to a point that, you know, he was trying to make
a statement. And unfortunately, you know, he
didn't get any mental help and that's what he
needed. So I figured, you know, he didn't have
a support group there, you know, veterans, you
know, somebody to take care of an American or
an Afghan. And those kinds of things get away
from us. And to blame the process of vetting
and the things that, you know, the government
set up to get to that process and to complete
it, you know, it takes years. Really, it takes
years. And the example I'm going to give is.
Amir's example with it took over three years,
three years. And that was he and his wife. He's
got six daughters and two sons and a new addition
back in June. So we got an American citizen in
the family now. But that's nine children, he
and his wife. And when they got here, every one
of them has a green card. It says they're. Legal
permanent residence until 2035. So, you know,
that's the way you go. And they carry the documents
everywhere they go. You know, he's got two jobs.
You know, he's really making an effort to do
it. He just bought his car, got a driver's license.
He drove up to Louisville this morning in the
snow to get his tag for his car. You know, the
kids are all doing good in school. I'm very thankful.
and blessed you know the process was a mother
bear getting through it but i don't care what
anybody else says that vetting process is strong
and if you go through it correctly without trying
to bypass anything you're going to be all right
as long as you got a good support group and you
got people that really care about you you know
you're not just a another group of family members
of hundreds you've helped you know because you
don't have any relationship there you know what
i mean yeah I want to get to the retreat and
then move forward from that as far as trying
to get people out. But just before we do, you'd
mentioned that Amir had saved your life four
times. What are some of the examples of that?
Again, just so people can see, you know, how
much courage and how much selflessness there
was from many of these people that you then ultimately
brought to the U .S. All right. I'll talk about
the last one. There was one at an airport in
Herat. There was a riot there. But anyway, the
last one was in Gardez, Afghanistan. You know,
all I'm going to say is lots of cobras in Gardez,
man. But anyway, get there, you know, it's a
small, a real small Afghan outpost thing. So
we get there and, you know, start doing the things
I do. getting about nighttime and we start getting
a lot of, you know, contact all around us. And
we're kind of down in the low ground too. So
that's not encouraging. You know, it's like being
in a bucket kind of thing. Anyway, so it just
kept getting worse and worse. And anyway, Sam
and I are trying to maneuver out of the kill
zone. We were in front of the firing the friendly
fire so we're moving out of the way and uh anyway
sam and his had his piece and uh he's firing
you know he's not really aiming it at anybody
he's just holding it up and firing it over his
back over his shoulder like and then i take a
round in my back and uh from that point on you
know i'm i'm at first i didn't i just thought
he hit me you know, like with the butt of the
rifle or something or push me down. And then
I realized, you know, hey, man, I started feeling
all this. It's like somebody pouring warm water
on you. That's your blood. And from that point
on, you know, it just a lot more chaos. I got
to a medic, an Afghan. And, you know, putting
the that it was that stuff in a tube. I forget
what it's called. But anyway, quick stuff. Yeah,
that quick clot. And then a bandage and everything.
And then, uh, under fire, you know, they had,
uh, they had, uh, medevacs coming in for others.
And, uh, I got to get on one of those medevacs,
but Sam drug me under fire and put me on a medevac,
a Blackhawk helicopter. And, uh, they flew me
to the triage there in, um, Bagram, Bagram Air
Base. And, um, I was, uh, I was there for, uh,
I don't know. Three or four days, and I met up
with a Ranger captain named Dan Kruger. He's
a lieutenant colonel now, Italian commander at
Fort Bragg at 505. Anyway, Ranger Kruger and
I were together there, and we ended up being
roommates in Landstuhl, Germany, on the dignitary
ward of the hospital because they didn't know
what to do with me. I had a beard and all that
other mess. Anyway, I met him there and then
went through that process. Eight months later,
I went back to Afghanistan. I still wore civilian
clothes, Afghan clothes and stuff, but I didn't
have to do as much traveling. I worked more with
the Ministry of Defense there in Kabul. Working
with CJ -5 and those guys in Kabul at Eggers.
So talk to me about the rumblings of there being
a withdrawal. And then through your eyes, you
know, the movement that you saw trying to get
these allied Afghans out to safety, knowing what
would happen to them if they stayed. Oh, well,
you know, we could see that coming a long way
down the line, you know, when they started downsizing.
You know, they the training like, you know, the
let's say you have a rollover training, you know,
they met the MRAPs and that kind of stuff. All
those types of things are going away. The contracts
were, you know, the contracts that were there,
like for, you know, the the different little
UAV stuff they had going on, putting them together
and that kind of thing. All that stuff going
away, you know, people talking about, you know,
taking this away and that away. So we had a pretty
good idea. We had no idea that we were going
to leave the country the way we did. You know,
it just unbelievable, man. I just can't get why
we did what we did the way we did it. It's crazy.
And it did cause a lot of suffering because of
that, you know, deep suffering in life. You could
see, you know, everybody had a good idea, but
there hadn't really been it. There's been a lot
of, you know, coffee pot talk, if you will. But
nothing really, you know, substantial about we're
leaving on this date. You know, we heard what
the president said, you know, and all that prior
to it going down, you know, and you just have
to wait, you know. And as to see it the way it
is, you know, all those places we had, you know,
like Bagram and the Kandahar and all those places
to be rolled out and just given up and the equipment
left behind, just mind boggling. to me is, you
know, you'd never want to do that. And I mean,
you know, we had a little bit of that Vietnam
timeframe, but not, not near as atrocious of
what we left on the ground to get reused, you
know, for the wrong reasons. But yeah, we could,
we could see that. And then, you know, the, they
tried a lot of different programs over there.
One was like, you know, the Taliban's paying,
you know, a fighter like eight bucks a day. So
the Army or the government, with our coercion,
come up with a program through an NGO or somebody
to pay them 12 bucks a day to dig a ditch in
the city to make it cleaner or do some water
work or be a bug sprayer or something like that.
So there was no efforts being made, you know,
that I saw, you know, that these guys were, you
know, they could be easily, you know. When you
got somebody going to your home and you kick
open the door and you go through your mom's room
and throw around her clothes and you humiliate
the father in front of the family and that kind
of thing. And once they leave, you know, that
kid, that young kid, that 18 year old kid's got
an attitude. He wants some vengeance. You know,
he wants some payback. So, you know, he goes
and, you know, he might get up with some of those
guys for a little bit and, you know, get his
satisfaction that way. But when you're talking
about money. At $12 an hour, you know, that's
some serious money for an Afghan during that
time frame. I mean, you get a lot done with $12
an hour, you know. So, you know, those types
of things where you saw, you know, the two humanitarian
efforts and things. And the NGOs over there,
they had a lot to do with those humanitarian
efforts, really. Because, you know, we had the
war focus, you know, people like me, you know.
doing our thing, trying to train up an army.
And then the other guys fighting and training
up the, you know, the Mujahideen or whoever,
you know, those folks out in the villages. And,
you know, it's just so diverse and such a challenge
to operate in that country to start with. It's
just unbelievably remote. I mean, the roads and
just traveling, you know, like going from Kabul
to Jalalabad, that'll take you about three hours
on a bus, you know. And then you got checkpoints
along the way. Somebody's going to check you
out, especially nowadays. And, you know, amongst
that, you know, I tell you, there's a lot of
highway robbery, highway men. This stuff's going
on, man. You don't hear about it, but it's definitely
a part of it. And, you know, those guys over
there with that Taliban mentality or that title,
they're nothing more than hoodlums and crooks
and drug abusers, really. And, you know, the
Mad Hatter that's running the show. It's insane.
It's just a matter of time. And, you know, they
got a lot of problems internally with their the
Taliban leadership. And, you know, it's just
a matter of time. You know, I'd love to see the
the male population grow a set of nuts and take
the country back. And, you know, that kind of
thing. But, you know, when you got starvation
and fear, those two things there are primary.
these tractors when you're trying to oppress
a society and especially the hunger part of it
and believe me there's people dying of hunger
every day over there it's a damn swing that's
what rasul was saying after we had withdrawn
was now you had starvation now you had food being
cut off and you had i think it was the winter
following that so you had people freezing to
death as well so you know we kind of washed our
hand as a nation not taking into account the
damage that was left and how the people there
were going to suffer, not just from the hands
of the oppression itself, but just the, you know,
the lack of infrastructure and the lack of food
and kind of the same thing with areas of Gaza.
Exactly. Yeah, it is. Now, you know, it is, you
know, Gaza is obliterated. I mean, really, just
look at that place. It's a big dump right now.
You can't live there. I mean, really, there's
people living there in existence there today
in that rubble. You know, trying to survive.
And the same thing with Kabul. You know, I mean,
you could go there today and you can see buildings
that are just you don't know how they're still
standing. And there's no glass in the windows.
There's, you know, a curtain or a sheet of some
sort. And, you know, lucky if you got a door.
But, you know, there's families like that. And,
you know, it's just unfortunate. And it could
have been a lot better if we would have done
the right thing and left the country in some.
fashion of leadership instead of just abandoning
everyone and again i blame their leadership as
well they all hauled ass you know as fast as
they could and left the country to the beast
and that's where it is today damn shame so what
should have happened because you know what has
happened has happened but i think the real tragedy
is when you don't reflect then and go, okay,
well, let's pull the lessons from it. Same as
COVID. I talk about COVID all the time because
there were so many things that were done wrong,
but that's come and gone now. But what we need
to do is like, all right, well, then what was
done wrong? How can we not do that again? What
was done right? Okay, we'll repeat that next
time. And it's the same with this. So from the
withdrawal itself, and then equally as importantly,
making sure that anyone that assisted the allied
forces were you know brought out the country
if they needed to be what should have happened
versus what did happen well you know just my
opinion you know we should have had well part
of it the big part of it was the corruption within
the army and the government of afghanistan and
us not getting a hold of that right sooner you
know i mean everybody knew about it so that's
a part of it and then you know you had It should
have been set up to where there was some type
of government there with an oversee. We could
oversee it without having to be in direct conflict
with the Taliban. And we just allowed it to happen.
I mean, come on. We're fully capable of keeping
that at bay. We just allowed it to happen. You
know, piece by piece, you know, OK, Bagram, OK,
Kandahar, you know, those little just walked
away from it. Left nobody, you know, and what
are you going to do when your cohorts, your people
that you're working with, that army sees what's
going on? They know that there's no help for
them and their ass is grass pretty much because
the new regime obviously is going to take retribution,
whether it be death, punishment, prison, you
know, whatever. But you're not getting away with
what went on within the country during the war
if you're on the opposing side. And, you know,
that's the way it went. And we should not have
allowed it to go down the way it went. That's
just my opinion. We could have done a better
job, obviously. And I mean, from our level, you
know, the president's level, putting a cap on
when we should go and then how it was the operation
was done. You know, I just you know, and then
the downsizing part of that as well was effective
because we didn't have enough, really. You know,
those fighting forces and that we had back in
the day, you know, if we had had that instead
of downsizing, the plan was in place. I'm sure
it probably a year or two, if not, you know,
that long before, you know, we implemented it.
And then it came on as a rush. I mean, look at
all the guys that were there during the Abbey
Gate. I mean, they pulled out from here and there
in different places. They really didn't know
what the hell was going on. I mean, they were
pretty much reacting to that environment and
then, you know, realizing, oh, shit, we're leaving,
you know. And my experience there that day, I'm
on the phone. I'm not there personally. I'm on
the phone with Amir and the bomb goes off. And
then the phone goes off and, you know, hits the
ground, all the noise. And then a few minutes
later, I get a call back and it's him. And he's
telling me, you know, he's showing me his face
is cut up. He got his face cut. He broke his
nose. Anyway, he's saying, I'm going to Jalalabad.
I said, good, get your ass to Jalalabad quick.
And, you know, he told me the bomb went off,
this and that. So he's on the way to Jalalabad.
He meets a cousin of his on the way and says,
hey, cuz, the Taliban's at your house and they
beat your father and broke his femur bone in
the street. And then terrorized the children
and the wife. So he's on his way home. I says,
hey, man, you can't go home. You know, so I hid
him around the country for about 90 days in mosques
and different places. People I know, good people.
And, you know, he finally got to go back home.
But, you know, from that point on, it's just
scared to death. And I had him, you know, he's
a good he's a smart man. You know, when I got
him, he's a young man. He's 20 years old when
I got him. He's 36 now. So I've had a long relationship
with this guy. And, you know, part of the deal
when I told him, I says, he wants to continue
to work for the government, our government. He's
already knocked out the requirement to get an
SIV. I tried to get him to go back in the day,
but his mom has tuberculosis. So he didn't want
to leave. So anyway, finally get to the point
to where, you know, it's getting the SIV time.
And, you know, it's all part of. Trying to put
together the things, you know, for him to get
here. But that took so long in his life and family's
jeopardy there in Jalalabad. You know, it's still
going on today. You know, that's why I don't
say his real name. I don't show his face. Unless
it's a friend like you are. You know, I trust
you. I know you're not going to blast things
out there like that, James. But, you know, there's...
Things you got to protect them still to this
day, you know, his family over there. So you
got to consider those things as well. You know,
and I mean, it's sad the way it turned out, but
we could have done a lot better, man, by planning
better and the execution about leaving. And I
know the majority of us feel bad about that.
I mean, really, it's a moral injury the way we've
done those people after 20 years, you know, and
the friendships made and the lives lost. You
know, it's a damn shame. I think we were talking
at the beginning of the conversation about the
compounding layers. You know, you have organizational
betrayal. So whether you are under, at that point,
the Biden administration and the withdrawal or
whether it's currently and you served alongside
all these allied soldiers and now your commander
in chief is talking about them. They weren't
near the front line. They didn't do anything.
You know, you've got these people that you fought
alongside and now. They're not getting visas
anymore. I mean, that's another moral. It's multiple
moral injuries that are compounding. And then
we wonder why we have this veteran mental health
crisis. Exactly. That's where I'm at. I'm telling
you, it's hard for me to grasp every day. I mean,
really, it's just it's been a nightmare for everyone
that I'm involved with. You know, I'm talking
Afghans, you know, to see our government. You
know, to do the things they've done, I just it's
killing me. I mean, really, I'm thankful, you
know, they're here and that process worked. But
to shut it off, you know, and and to not allow
it to continue to to go forth and free people
that need it to give them a future so their kids
can have an education. And, you know, I mean,
sixth grade is it for girls. Once you get to
the sixth grade, no more education for you unless
you do it on the down low. you know, with a,
you know, a hidden opportunity, which are out
there, thank God. But the majority of them don't
have that opportunity, you know, to continue
their education. That's just an example, you
know, so they end up early child marriages, you
know, that kind of thing, selling their kids
because they can't afford to feed the other 10,
you know, it's just, you know, and then people
are going to say, well, why do they have so many
children? You know, it's just, you know. That
shouldn't matter. You know, I mean, they were
taking care of them. They obviously look healthy.
But at this point, they're not allowed to have
the sustenance that's necessary, you know, to
continue that support for families. And it's
unbelievably sad over there. I mean, one of the
worst or the worst border crossing in the world
is Torkham Bridge up there on the Pakistan border.
of afghanistan you know and that you're talking
about a horror scene man it's it's incredibly
just it's awful it's just trash and people and
suffering especially now in the wintertime and
that's just people trying to get into another
country and away from afghanistan or they're
they're being uh deported from pakistan the majority
of them You know, and then, you know, the ones
that are just homeless or whatever, for whatever
reason. But the majority of those people, they
come back. Now, here's the situation. If you're
a female and you have a male escort, you're good
to go. But if you don't and you come back to
Afghanistan from Pakistan, they're like the Taliban's
like, you've been gone four years. Where's your
man? What have you been doing for four years?
You know, all this kind of this. type of questioning
and, you know, that kind of thing. And then ultimately,
you know, bad things are going to happen to you
if you're a female and you don't have a family.
And, you know, I'm telling you, man, I'm going
through an experience right now that is very
tragic involving their young adults now, but
they were children when I first got them. It's
still ongoing. They're suffering and it's just
ridiculous. And, you know, the programs, again,
you know, aren't there anymore to support us.
You know, and it's sad to see. And it's just
because of, really, I think it has to do with
a lot of prejudicial attitudes within the administration
and, you know, the falsehoods. that were spoken
and believed by people with authority about how
negative or unsat the vetting processes are and
things of this nature, you know, that's impeding,
you know, the credibility of our Afghan allies
and others. You know, Iraq, we're still fooling
around with Iraqis from way back when. You know,
and we didn't do that right either. There's been
enough getting out, but still there's plenty
there that have earned the right or at least
qualifies to come to America or a third, another
country. You know, getting the asylum and that
type of thing nowadays is difficult to do. You
know, you've got to have a pretty tight case,
you know, life and death type stuff. And I do.
And I've got a case like that right now. So what
needs to change? I mean, you know, I would argue
control or delete on the way that we choose leaders
would be a good start. But that's my personal
opinion. You know, if you can buy yourself a
president, if you're a drug company or a weapons
manufacturer, that's probably not what our forefathers
were thinking of initially. But aside from that,
like to make sure that we do honor. These people
who literally risked their lives and, you know,
in the lone survivor for us for, you know, story,
for example, protected an American naval man,
you know, at the risk and even the death of some
of their people. I mean, this kind of human that
we then bring them to safety, we either put them
in safety in their own country, like you said,
if that's possible, or, you know, bring them
to a different country. What do we need to change
to make sure that those people through that vetting
system do have a pipeline to safety after risking
their lives for us? Well, you know, first off,
you know, we've got to get Congress and the Senate
to reopen those programs. I mean, there's one,
you know, it's a great organization out there
called Afghan Evac. I know you've heard of it.
You know, they do a lot of good work, but it's
folks like that. that are out there, you know,
interacting with Congress and the senators and
the people on the ground that make these laws
and can make a difference and changes. But they're
there already. The laws are there. The people
are there to do the work. It's just, you know,
they've let people go. They shut the programs
down. And I can talk about it because I, you
know, there's one specific program that my...
current case was in that got smashed. And they
were getting ready to be referred to get vetted
out with the IRAP. And then they would have came
here to Kentucky. But it didn't happen because
they crushed the program. The first executive
order slammed that. And then it didn't leave
a lot of opportunities. If you didn't have an
SIV case. And this is the case I'm speaking of.
These individuals, these young adults now were
children when I got them in 2021. Now they're
young adults. They're just barely teenagers right
now. No supervision, no parents, only Dewey.
So that process, I had to move to another avenue,
which was humanitarian parole. So once I opened
that up, spend. Thousands of dollars with an
attorney, a quality attorney at that. Three hundred
documents, nine PDFs submitted. We got a case
number within 24 hours from the state for the,
you know, the folks we sent. You know, anyway,
we got a case number and we're looking good.
So it's like three weeks into that. And then,
boom, the second executive order stopped that.
And that's the only hope they've had. These three
individuals, these siblings have had to get their
freedom, you know, to come to the States. Now,
all that's blocked. There's nobody coming to
America like we spoke of earlier, unless you're
white South African or you got a pocket full
of money. And, you know, which you can open up
a billion dollar business in America and make
Trump happy. So with that said, there hasn't
been a lot of other avenues to help allies. Now,
these are ally children. Mother and father are
dead. And, you know, the only way they had to
get here was S .I .V. So dad's dead. So I got
all his L .O .R .s that prove that he worked
for 10 years for the United States government.
He's dead. Mom's dead. There's no living relatives.
That would have anything, you know, to do with
these children. And anyway, so that it's been
difficult. So the only other way that I could
possibly try to get them on this side of the
earth was through the Canadian process. And fortunately,
I've been blessed with. Some strong contacts
that have worked in Afghanistan as an NGO for
over 20 years. Awesome people. Anyway, I've connected
through them, through an Afghan gentleman that
has a really good immigration attorney in Canada.
So this weekend, at some point, I'm going to
have a Zoom call with this lawyer. myself and
these other two friends of mine about getting
these siblings into Canada from Pakistan. But
that's really been a, oh, what a nightmare that's
been for them, man. So tragic. Unbelievable.
Sad. What they suffered for no real reason of
their own, you know, it's just because they were.
Family members. I can tell you, it's been awful.
It's been awful. I left behind. I had them hooked
up with a quality individual over there, and
they got left behind. I had to move them around
the country four months. From Mazar Sharif to
Kandahar, back to Kabul, to safe houses. And
I say safe house. Tragic, tragic, tragic place.
Packed with Afghan families. A couple of dead
children. It's just, you know, things like that.
It's wintertime, you know, and we get left behind.
And unfortunately, another Afghan turned them
into the Taliban, and they were captive for 62
days. Oh, my God. It took a lot of effort. And
I'm going to say there's one individual on this
earth that made it happen. And I'd like to use
his name, but I don't want him to get mad at
me. But he's a retired lieutenant colonel, special
forces. And he personally negotiated their release
from the Taliban. And that day we got him into
Pakistan with medical visas. And that's where
they've been ever since. But that whole ordeal
was unbelievably stressing. And I stayed up for
like over two days moving them around and, you
know, the phone conversations and the NGOs, those
lying bastards. You know, I had so many people,
oh, get a manifest. We'll go to Canada. You get
down there, there's no planes. You know, I mean,
like the dude you're dealing with is gone, you
know. Anyway, it was a nightmare. There's all
types of that stuff going on. I mean, bribes.
Oh, I've got a bone to pick with a former. This
guy's still living. He's in Florida, too. But
he was responsible pretty much for the kids getting
turned into the Taliban. But anyway, that's a
whole other subject. Anyway. The processes are
there. They just need to reenact them. And it's
not going to take a lot of effort. All they got
to do is say, vote on it and reopen them. Because
there's enough out there. And I mean, the SIVs
are going to happen. But if you've got a circumstance
or a situation like mine, it's complicated. Because
you've got three siblings, two girls and a brother.
They don't have any family. I started this out
in 2021. Everybody and their brother are on earth.
that had the power and authority to hook me up
to try to help, but they didn't trust me. They
thought I was human trafficking. So I had to
go down that route and disprove all that. And
that was a process. I had to get a third party
to look into this and verify who I was and what
I was dealing with and so on and so forth. So
it got to be a real nightmare about every time
I would... Talk about it or try to do something
for these siblings, these children. And they're
near and dear to my heart, honestly. They're
so precious to me. The fact that they're living
in the conditions they are is the best I can
do right now. But they're safe. They're fed.
And they have a warm place to stay. And, you
know, that's the best I can do. I'm only one
Joe, man. Anyway, it's hopefully going to work
out. But the circumstance around it is the tragedy
and the things that they endured. They're trying
to leave the country and being qualified for
an SIV. Now, without the father and without that,
they don't have any hope. Even if there was,
you'd have to start all over again. It'd be like
three years or whatever. I'd like to... I'd like
to get some more attention to them, to get some
assistance. I'm pretty confident that my connections
are going to at least come up with an opportunity
that we can get them into Canada. Because I know
Canada is still accepting Afghans and asylees
and refugees. And they're definitely a refugee
and they're in danger. You know, I tell you,
when he first got there and gone through the
medical visa process, you know, they were in
a safe house. They couldn't stay there any longer
because they were moving the safe house down
to another southern area from Islamabad. So I
got my kids together and rented a good place
with a gentleman that I know from. service before
but he has a home there and he's been really
good he's got uh four daughters uh you know a
wife and one young baby son but uh he helps protect
the kids and watches out for them and you know
and then uh you know i got the rent money coming
to him every every month but uh he's really been
an asset there i'm blessed but uh you know for
the the life that they're living there they haven't
had really any education speak of i had them
going to school and uh but with all the activity
about there's no more visa renewals so they're
in country illegally two years ago on my birthday
they got put they were arrested and put on the
deportation list so through a dea friend of mine
stateside i got in contact with some guys over
there and they went And we got them out of there,
got them released, and they're back in my care
and where I have them now. And it's, you know,
the time, you know, it's just running out. You
know, I mean, they're young adults now. And,
you know, to be young females in Pakistan or
Afghanistan, it's not a good thing. There are
wolves over there, if you know what I'm talking
about. They prey upon young women and children,
you know, nasty people. And, you know, that's
another thing. And I went from medical visas
to tourist visas, which was expensive, but it
was every six months. But the kicker to that
is every three months, you got to move them back
to the worst border crossing in the world to
get exit and entry stamps again. So I did that
twice, and I said, to hell with that. You know,
because it's risky. It's risky as hell. And,
you know, because you go up there every time.
The girls got to take their hijab down. They
got to put their hair between their ears. They
got to get photoed, DNA checked. And that's every
time, you know. And, I mean, after a while. Now,
right now, they're illegal in the country, man.
I'm worried like sick to my stomach. You know,
it's just a matter of time. If somebody gets
them or finds out, they're gone. I'll never know
what happened to them. I take my old ass over
there and start groundhogging, trying to find
out, but that's a possibility. Well, this goes
back to what we were talking about earlier. If
we can really invest in our own country, and
let's be honest, the wisdom of most of the holy
books, which is kindness, compassion, community
service, and also look at the impact that we've
had on other areas of the world and try and make
a positive impact. So a perfect example is drug
prohibition in the States, making it illegal
to be an addict. And I'm not talking about selling,
I'm not talking about smuggling, and I'm not
talking about crimes done by addicts that are
crimes, burglary and all the other things. But
if you put that into the hands of the medical
community, Imagine the impact that would have
on the illicit drug trade, on the smuggling.
If there's no consumer in the US anymore, because
either you've got yourself cleaned through all
the resources that have been put in, like the
Portuguese model, or if you are an addict, you're
in safe injection sites and you're under medical
supervision, so you're not dying in the streets
of San Francisco. Now, all of a sudden, there's
no need for the illicit drug trade anymore. So
you've cut the head off the snake. And that,
I think, is how you then help other countries.
And one of the things that I always use as an
example is Haiti is on my doorstep. And that
place is an absolute disaster. Imagine the good
that we could do if we helped whatever that looks
like, you know, a Haitian that was then educated
in the US and became a real leader and then went
back to their home country and stabilize them.
I mean, the tourism potential of Haiti through
the cruise ships and, you know, and just vacations,
that alone could sustain the island because the
other half is the Dominican Republic and it does.
So, you know, this is what maddens me is if we
can stop. destroying ourselves and put everything
back where we're doing well, then we can be not
Team America World Police, but Team America World,
you know, EMS, however you want to, you know,
describe it. So now that you're not only creating
destruction and conflicts in other countries,
but now, you know, you accept the immigrants
that, you know, really, really need to get away,
but ultimately you stabilize their country because
as Rasool made a comment. The problem is when
we have all these people fleeing Afghanistan,
sometimes that's their greatest minds that are
fleeing, the doctors and the leaders. So you
don't want everyone to be fleeing to your country
anyway. You want to help them get back on their
feet in their own country ultimately. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, that's true. Well, you know, I didn't get
to finish up about Amir. No, please carry on.
No, I was just going to say about, you know,
a few sentences ago I was talking about, you
know, you know, what he had gone through and
everything. But I helped him get through dental
school. And he graduated with five years of dental
school prior to coming over here. But he's working
two jobs. He's not a dentist. Of course, he's
got to go through that process again. But, you
know, he's an educated man. And there's lots
of people like that still over there. But you
don't hear about them. They're incognito or hiding.
Now, I do have a friend there that was he's actually
a friend of Amir's. They went to school together.
He runs a little shop over there, a little pulling
Taliban teeth and whatever. But, you know, they
stay in touch. So I keep up with, you know, what's
going on, at least in Jalalabad, you know, and
I get the truth, you know, so they know me. It's
sad that, you know, they got it. slip around
like that. And the education's only, you know,
and there's still good people over there, but
the majority, yes, they have left, you know,
the, the ones that could make a difference in
country, but, you know, dealing with an ignorant
person, you know, running a country that really,
they don't have really any education to speak
of, you know, the ones that do don't use it.
They use it for hate and, you know, the ideology,
but. You're right. A lot of them have left the
country and for good reasons. Who wouldn't want
to stay in that environment, especially if you
have daughters in the household? Absolutely.
That's it. Well, I'm sure there's people out
there that would love to learn more about you
or connect. Where are the best places online
to do that or even see if they can help in some
way? Oh. Well, you know, I'll put my email out
there and I'll give you my phone number. So you
can reach me at lowercase dcyopjr at msn .com.
I have a 24 -7 phone line. It's 270. 319 -2045.
And I'm on WhatsApp and Signal. And both those
numbers are good for that. So if you're on there
and you want to reach out or send me a message
or something, if you can help me out in any way
possible, contacts, funds, whatever. You know,
it's greatly appreciated. And then, you know,
we can build a relationship from that point on.
And once you get in my circle, which is not very
big, it's a good thing to be there. It's a good
thing to be there because I know enough people
that, you know, I've got a couple of three star
generals and others that are still involved out
there that, you know, if I can help someone else,
I'm all about it. I'm all about it. But if you're
listening, not only with your ears today, but
with your heart, those children, those young
adults I'm speaking of really could use the humanity
and the mercy that they deserve, really. It's
sad that they, I wish I could do more for them.
I'm limited at what I do every month. You know,
it's 500 bucks every month. out of my retirement.
So, you know, and I, you know, I got my own thing
going on here, but I thank God I'm able to sustain
that, but it's getting to be difficult, big difficulty.
But, uh, you know, I mean, I mean, just like
a lot of people you hear about say, uh, you know,
Hey, what you've done to, uh, sustain that, you
know, I sold a Cadillac six rifles. Three pistols.
You know, those kinds of things we do, you know,
because it's important. One of those things,
the material things, you know, sitting on the
wall or in a gun case. And you look at that and
you say, I could feed, I could feed Amir's family
for a whole month with that one gun. You know
what I mean? And those things like that, you
have to let go. And it's for a worthy cause.
I don't regret it at all. But, you know, there'll
be a time where, you know, when, People with,
you know, their post -traumatic stress disorders
and the things that have affected them through
their service time, whether it be in the military
or EMTs or firefighters, they all experience
a level of trauma and the humanitarian part of
it, you know, dealing with human beings and having
that feeling. for them in that moment, you know,
because a lot of times we, we don't really think
until afterwards, like putting yourself in their
position, you know, or the comfort level they
have, what would you like to be done? Those types
of things, the consideration there, you know,
and it's just, there's so many organizations
out there with people, hundreds of people and
lots of money. But when you're a Lone Ranger,
And you're dealing with human life and it's getting
to be very difficult to sustain them. You know,
you got to reach out sometime because you're
dumb if you don't. You know, I mean, I'm a strong
man. I just, you know, I don't think it's weak
if you got to say, hey, I need help, whether
it's through mill help or help with the sustainment
of, you know, Afghan families or anyone else
in the world for that matters. And just having
that heart and the humanity for it because, you
know, I've seen a lot of tragedy in my life and
a lot of things. You know, you don't see children
go home and you hold hands and watch people pass
on and give up their life. You know, the things
you see, the aftermath of all that, you know,
it just stays with you. You can't forget it,
you know. It's just, you know, it's motivated
me to do right, you know, to make a difference
in the world and to honor the promise. You know,
just because a promise is hard to keep doesn't
mean you can't keep the promise. You know, you
just have to keep going. You just never give
up. You keep going no matter what. And eventually,
honestly, through my experience, you will have
success. And I mean, you know, I'm thankful for.
The small group of folks I do have is, you know,
that support my mental health, my family here
that that supports me. You know, they see what,
you know, war has done to their father and their
husband. And they've been real understanding
with me, you know, through my treatment process
and everything. I tell you, James, I don't take
anything anymore. But I tell you what, you know,
when you start out. Taking 600 megagrams of Seroquel,
come on. You can't sleep for three or four days,
you know, and that's the kind of thing a lot
of people go through, through their trauma. And
sleep is a must. You've got to have it to maintain
your mental health, you know, and to feel good
about, you know, carrying on and so forth and
having the will to do it. And not give in to
the pity party and to be like the other guy.
And, you know, sadly, those folks don't have
the right people in their life, man. It breaks
my heart every time I hear a veteran takes their
life. I was one of those guys. I almost killed
myself. I mean, very within a second. And I ended
up in treatment and for a period of time and
then continued that process until I got to the
point where I said, hey, you know what? I think
I'm. I found myself. I found Dewey again, you
know, and I'll be okay now. What worked for you?
We hear, you know, a lot of VA stories about,
you know, a lot of pills being thrown at them,
you know, counseling sessions that they have
to wait six months to get an appointment. Obviously,
this is not every single VA, but it seems to
be a reoccurring theme. What were some of the
tools that worked for you that got you away from
that? To be honest, none of the medications just
kept me the way I was. It kept me dumbed down,
you know, in an unrealistic mindset. You know,
it really, you know, over years of that abuse,
you know, really taking triazodone and all that
other crap, Xanax, this and that. You know, what
worked for me was a friend of mine that was very
concerned about me and got a hold of an organization
up in Maine. And it's a veterans hunting organization.
Well, those guys invited me on a turkey hunt.
They paid for the flight there and back, fed
me the whole time I was there, treated me like
I was a royalty. I had, you know, it was a gentleman's
hunt, you know. I killed two turkeys with one
shot. And then a few months later, they said,
hey, we're going to have a bear hunt. How would
you like to go on a bear hunt? I was like, damn,
yeah, man. And I was on the way to Virginia to
go to a farm to stay by myself for ever how long
it was going to be. And I got that phone call
from that friend that said, hey, we booked you
for a bear hunt in Maine. And I mean, it's Pasquale,
Maine. It's all the way up to Canada, to the
tip. So, you know, Bangor, up past that. So anyway.
I went on those and getting back into the wildlife
and being around those people. Oh, the emotions
flow, bro. I mean, it just the way they were
so concerned and helpful and they cared about
me. They showed me, you know, just different
things. And then just being in that environment,
going hunting and being around those guys and
being able to feel comfortable. talking about,
you know, my anger and, you know, the things
that, you know, has caused me want to take my
life or, you know, to become, you know, the other
way, you know, to try to kill somebody, you know,
and I mean, those kinds of things. I tell you,
man, I was, I wasn't an easy person there in
the beginning. You know, I had a lot of trouble
with, had some trouble with the police. I went
to Sam's Club. I hadn't been in Sam's Club. I
don't know. It's probably been a couple of years
now. But anyway, I went in there on a holiday
when I first got back with my wife. It was like
Thanksgiving. And anyway, she bought a case of
mushroom soup. It happened to be the last case.
Well, we've got a big family. There's like 22
of us, grandkids, all that stuff. So we're in
line. These two big boys behind me look like
they came out of Lake City Hunting Club there.
And, you know, overalls on and stuff. And they
reached over into the back. I'm up front trying
to unload stuff, put it on the conveyor belt.
And this big old boy reaches over and grabs two
hands full of soup and puts them in his cart.
And I poked my head at my wife, turned around.
She eased up there by me because she's only like
four feet tall. And these guys are towering over.
And I smiled at them and said, hey, you guys,
what's up, man? You know, joking around. They
said, hey, man, you bought all the soup. I said,
big deal. So what? I said, well, you know, that
ain't right. I said, look, man, put that soup
back in there, and you're not getting any. And
he said, shut up, old man. And he kept on. So
I grabbed two cans of soup. I jumped up on the
conveyor belt. I jumped off of it on top of those
two. SOBs and I commenced to beating her ass
with them soup cans. Well, I ended up in jail
for two months and I had to go to court and I
did six months of anger management. Was it worth
it? Hell yes. Oh boy. So anyway, I've come a
long ways, you know. But honestly, I got away
from the meds. I'm in touch with some really
Some quality folks that I stay, you know, text
with and talk to on the phone. And, you know,
I listen to them. They listen to me. We trust
each other. There's no secrets. And it's that
type of, you know, that bond you need to help
and to get off of that crap. If you don't need
it, don't succumb to, oh, the doctor said I needed
it. You know, that's a bunch of horse, man. I
mean, there's half that stuff you don't need.
They're just trying to figure out to get you
to a happy place or to keep you from not really
being who you really are, you know, your emotions
and everything else. You know, I mean, one of
the biggest issues I have, you know, and I, I'm
not ashamed to say it, you know, if it's strong
enough, you know, emotionally, I can cry at the
drop of a hat nowadays and I've never been that
way. I mean, it just, all this stuff. has gotten
to the point to where emotionally it's just pitiful,
you know, to see the suffering on the scale it
is and to see it go on for so long. It's unrealistic,
man, really. In this world, in day and age, the
capabilities we have and the... The people and
the minds we have, you know, and a lot of it,
again, like I said early on, I'm involved with
Task Force Argo. I knew some prominent people
that could have done a world of good. They had
connections with the government, Congress, senators.
But they turned a blind eye to me because they
thought I was human trafficking. And to this
day, you know, I hope they realize, well, you
know, at one point I got kicked off of Task Force
Argo because I was an angry man. But anyway,
they help me out a lot, you know, just information
wise and meeting people. But organizations like
that, you know, they have their limits. And,
you know, if it gets complicated, like my case
is complicated, you know, you got to have that
right individual in the right mindset to make
it happen. And then you got to have somebody
that's going to be willing to work with you,
you know, like I have now. And, you know, they're
they're awesome people, man. Jan and John Bradley.
Afghan Lima Foundation. It's Lima Afghan Foundation.
And John is a retired three -star general. His
lovely wife, Jan, they've been married 50 -some
years. I've been married almost that long, 48
for me. But anyhow, they're involved. They're
helping me with these young adults. And there's
people out there like that, you know, that are
still willing to go forth and cross the line
and, you know, put their name out there and stand
by you and, you know, try to accomplish difficult
tasks like this is. You know, this is something
that's going to take people to really get behind
to make it happen. And I'm telling you, this
is the last shot we have. to get on this side
of the world for those young adults. And I hope
to God it happens. It's just getting to where
I just can't. I phantom, man. If something happens
to them kids, I blame myself. It's just not,
I don't know of another word, but it hasn't been
fair to us. And, you know, like the Welcome Corps
program, James. You know, I had to go through
a process where online you have to take a class
and get certified to be the group leader. And
then you have to find five people that live within
50 miles of you. And you have to get them all
vetted out with police reports and all that.
It's like 15 bucks a person. I did all that.
I paid for their things. I got my sister. I mean,
not my sister. I got my oldest daughter, myself,
retired. an army chaplain, his wife and daughter.
And that was my nucleus for the Welcome Corps
program. And then you go through all these other
levels of vetting and processing, you know, during
that, you know, making sure everybody's name's
right and they're related and all those types
of things. And you get to the point, you know,
and this is funded by the State Department, not
the responsibility of the refugee, but just to
pay the individual. that is doing the work, vetting
you and getting the documents together and doing
those types of things. They paid them to do that.
The rest of it was on me. So I raised $10 ,000
to support them once they got here. So out of
that, there's nothing left because I've used
it for rent money, food, medical attention, psychological
help, and all that. To those young adults that
are under my wing at this time. And I care for
them like they really are mine. Man. It's bad,
dude. But, you know, hiding them all the time,
too, you know. Thinking about moving them right
now to the south because it's so bad in Islamabad.
If they get caught, man, they're illegal. They
get rolled up, put in the camp. Them girls, man.
That oldest girl. She's already 62 days in captivity,
bro. She's missing for two weeks. Anyway, they're
better off now than they were. I'm just trying
to get them to a happy place, man. Happy place.
But, you know, we'll get it done one way or the
other, you know. It's just unfortunate that the
way things fell, you know, the timeline and everything
else. I couldn't believe it, you know. I mean,
Welcome Corps, eight months in the program, and
that's right at the pinnacle of getting referred
to IRAP. And then you're vetted and manifested.
And that's a quick process. That's within like
a week, 10 days. And we were right there on,
you know, right there, man. Bam, no go. You know,
and I'm like, Jesus, what are we going to do
now? And, you know, and during that time period,
again, you know, I had friends. that said, hey,
I've got a connection with Spain. We've got a
back door. I do an embassy packet, a substantial
packet, telling about the trauma, what they've
gone through, and which they are. They have been
through some traumatic experiences. The brother
wasn't with them during the captivity. It was
just those two sisters. Thank God the youngest
one didn't get touched. So I've had a lot of
challenges with those children. I call them children,
but, you know, they're young adults. The eldest
is 22 now. Subtract five years, and that's how
old they were when I got them. And I've done
everything correctly out in the open. I'm not
hiding anything. It's just the timeline and the
way things fell, you know, with our government,
the new president. You know, the programs and
different things, it's just been really hell
for us to get through. I mean, we're still not
there. Again, you know, we have high hopes with
the Canadian contacts. It looks good. We're going
to have to wait and see what the lawyer says
tomorrow. But, yeah, if anybody is willing to
jump in the arena, I mean, Satan wouldn't walk
in my shoes right now, I tell you that. But if
anyone out there is listening, Not just with
your ears, but with your heart. Come on. I'll
embrace you as a brother, a sister, a friend.
And we can share that joy when we free these
kids and give them a future where they can have
a life of freedom and not be worried about fear
and oppression and education. They're gorgeous.
You know, I mean, they're very, it's just. That's
another thing that works against them is their
beauty. And somebody, you know, and unfortunately
I was taken advantage of early on. And it's just
been a hard process to get, you know, those,
that mind back to where it needs to be. You know
what I mean? It's still not right. I mean, we've
got sicknesses going on all the time. I just
recently, the eldest child is sick. So, you know,
that's, Another thing, I have somebody go out
and get medicine and, you know, they got to sit
there and can't do anything. It's maddening.
It really is. It's maddening for them. I know
it is because the brother, man, he's pacing the
room and, you know, they start arguing amongst
each other. Then I got to get involved, you know,
and then your brother, sister stuff. And, you
know, I understand that, too. Years of being
that way, you know, and not having the freedom
and then having to live the way they have to.
But that's the best I could do. I wish I could
do more. But thankfully, you know, it's like
renting that place. You know, they don't rent
to Afghans. So, you know, the name on the list
is mine. So if they do come and they see who's
renting it, an American. Oh, OK. You know what
I'm saying? I've done things like that to try
to keep them safe. And I don't like sharing a
lot about where they are, who they are, you know,
that kind of stuff, because all it takes is one
loose lip and it's done. Absolutely. Well, I
hope that someone listening can help, you know,
in whatever form that would be. Yeah. I want
to thank you so much for not only, you know.
coming on here and the interview itself, but
also, you know, the vulnerability element as
well. I mean, this is what people need to hear,
whether it's the plight of the, in this case,
kids that you were trying to get from danger
to somewhere safe or the mental health side of
our men and women in uniform as well. And, you
know, this vulnerability from someone who has
such a story career on the front line. So I want
to thank you so much for being so generous with
your time and coming on the Behind the Shield
podcast today. I appreciate you, James, and I'll
be watching. And I really do appreciate being
able to share my experiences and my thoughts
with the audience. And again, I invite anyone
in the world that listens to contact me. More
than welcome your friendship and be an honor
to have you as a teammate.