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.com. Welcome to episode 290 of Behind the Shield
podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing,
and this week I am extremely excited to welcome
on the show Michael Lopez. Now, Michael has an
incredibly powerful story that I was given a
glimpse of through one of the videos that went
viral on social media a few months ago. His story
is that of a regular child who had some trials
like many of us, but then found his way amongst
the wrong crowd and taking some bad life decisions,
which was followed by several years in crime,
drugs, prison stays. And then he hit a point
where he basically said enough is enough and
started the journey to turning his life around.
Now, he's not only an advocate for people under
psychiatric hold, but he also spends much of
his time on Skid Row feeding the homeless. So
you're going to hear not only his incredible
story, but how you can also be part of the solution
in that area as well. So before we get to that
interview, please just take a moment, go to whichever
app that you listen to this on, subscribe to
the show, leave feedback. I love reading the
feedback and leave a rating. The five -star ratings
really do make us more and more visible as we
climb the virtual charts for people that are
looking for a podcast like this. And then take
whichever outlet you have, social media, word
of mouth, carrier pigeon, and share these episodes.
Each one of these men and women has come on this
podcast to give their life story, their life's
work to you for free. This is a 300 -person library
almost now, and every single one of these episodes
is free. So all I ask you, the audience member,
is to help share these incredible stories because
I know people all over planet Earth need to hear
them. So with that being said, I introduce to
you Michael Lopez. Enjoy. So Michael, I want
to start by saying thank you so much for taking
the time to come on the podcast. Thank you guys.
Thank you for having me. Brilliant. Where are
we finding you on planet Earth today? I'm in
Los Angeles, California. It's warm. It's sunny.
It's beautiful. I hate to brag, but it is. More
specifically, I'm in the city of Bell. Bell.
Okay. So going back to the very beginning, where
were you actually born? I was born in Harbor
City, California. It's the harbor area out near
San Pedro and stuff. I was raised in the city
of Huntington Park. Okay. So your parents, what
did they do as a profession? Growing up, my dad
always worked for General Motors. He retired
from General Motors in Van Nuys after, I don't
know, close to 30 years. And my mom has always
worked as a waitress. And then her side, she
had a lot of side jobs that she did. She sold
lingerie and Princess House crystal and Tupperware.
She combed wigs. I remember in the 70s, she had
the living room was always full of wigs and people
would come and drop off their wigs and my mom
would comb them and people would come and pick
them up. Brilliant. Now, you know, I just remembered,
you know, we went to that place with your dad.
So I'm going to salvage that. I think it was
only the last few minutes that We had an issue.
So in hindsight, rather than drag you through
all those memories again, let me see. I think
where it started going wrong was when I asked
you about what you want to do as a career. So
let me just jump into that question and what
I'll do. I'll just splice those two together.
Okay. All right. So when you were going through
the school system, as it were, what was your
career dream? I remember my very first dream,
my very first career dream was to be a writer.
I wanted to write. I've always liked, enjoyed
writing. That was made more possible one day.
I was going through a newspaper here in the state
of Huntington Park. It was called the Huntington
Park Bulletin. And I came across a very small
article that said stringers wanted. It had a
contact number and name. I had no idea what a
stringer was. I was 11 years old, and I remember
calling the number, and I spoke to a guy named
Mertis Hayes, and he was a sports reporter for
the Southgate Press. And he was interested. He
was fascinated that I was only 11 years old,
calling him with questions. So what he did was
he set up a tour of the Southgate Press for me,
and my mom dropped me off. And he gave me a tour
of the entire building. It was all Southgate
Press, a local newspaper. What a stringer ended
up being as a reporter. He covered high school
sports. And so he gave me the assignment of covering
the Huntington Park High School girls varsity
basketball team. And he gave me a season pass.
And I thought I was cool to walk in free to the
games at 11 years old. I remember writing my
very first story covering the varsity basketball
team. And I still remember the title was Spartan
Girls Top Franklin 35 to 19 by Michael Lopez.
And if I remember correctly, it was about two
or three paragraphs long. And a few weeks after
the story printed, actually, I got my first paycheck
in the mail. And if I remember correctly, it
was about eight bucks, nine bucks, somewhere
around there. And I was pretty excited. So I
was set on writing. I would sit on writing. My
fifth grade teacher at the time was really proud
of me, and we started a writer's club in my elementary
school because of that. So I'd always been interested
in journalism. Brilliant. Now you mentioned as
well other accolades through school, and then
one specific incident that stopped you getting
that particular accolade. Yeah, so through junior
high school, In high school, I was always interested
in student body, student council, running for
office. I was never the shy type. And I remember
I won the election for seventh grade class president
and then eighth grade class president. Once I
got to high school, I went all the way up, freshman
vice president, things like that. But once I
hit my senior year in high school, I ran for
student body president. And I won the election
for student body president. However, on the same
day as the election happened, I was involved
in a really big gang fight in front of the school.
I believe it was like a 20 on 20 type of deal.
I don't remember the exact numbers, but it was
pretty huge. People were arrested. People were
hurt. And, you know, a lot of people got away
unscathed. But when I came to school the next
day, my office had been revoked. I had been taken
out of student council because of the incident.
And I remember being really disappointed, really
mad because I didn't start the fight. But the
fight was, you know, I mean, the fight involved
me directly. And so it was supposed to be a one
-on -one type of deal. And it just turned into
a big gang fight. Right now, with you saying
obviously that you had the influence of drugs
growing up, at what point did you become somewhat
of an affiliation with a certain group or gang?
It was just after high school. Well, I mean,
I started running. Well, let me try to go back
a little bit. The guys that I hung around with
in junior high school and high school, we weren't
a gang yet. We were just a bunch of guys that
hung out. Played football on the weekends. We'd
play other football teams at the local parks.
And the football team that I played with turned
into a righteous street gang here in L .A. And
so it turned into a gang. And it wasn't until
well after high school, maybe a year or two after
high school, that I really got heavily involved
in the gang life and drugs. And that's when everything
took a turn for the worse. Took my very first
hit of crack probably at about 19, maybe 20.
And I went on a 25 -year ride. Had no idea what
was in store. And what do you think was the underlying
factor that made you take that first hit? Well,
that can go way, way back to, say, my freshman
year of high school. My freshman year of high
school, my career dreams changed. I wanted to
be a police officer. So I wanted to start that
path by joining the police explorers here in
Huntington Park. And the couple of guys that
I was hanging around with, we all wanted to be
police explorers. So we went to go get our applications.
And I remember taking my application home and
asking my dad. It was at a dinner table. Hey,
dad, you know, I've got this application. Can
you sign it? I want to be a police explorer.
You're going to have to buy uniforms and stuff
like that. And I remember handing it to my dad
and my dad called it up and he threw it in the
trash can, you know, and in Spanish, he said,
you know, I'm not going to sign that. You're
a piece of shit. You're a liar. You're no good
for anything. You know, how are you going to
be an honest police officer if you're a liar?
You know, I remember crying and stuff. And the
reason my dad did that. was because two weeks
prior, I found out or I caught my mom having
an affair. She was cheating on my dad, and I
told my dad about it. And for about two or three
weeks, as you can imagine, the house was really
dark. It was a sad place. It was a lot of animosity,
a lot of fighting. And one day, my mom pulled
me to the side and said, look, son. You have
to convince your dad that you lied. You have
to tell him that you lied, that it's not true.
Because if you don't, we're going to end up getting
divorced and your dad's world is going to fall
apart. All my dad's family is in Mexico. My dad
is the only one here. He's been in the United
States since I believe he was like about 13 or
14 years old on his own. And so I did that. I
convinced my dad, hey, dad, I'm sorry I lied.
I was mad with mom. And I'm sorry I lied to you.
And so from that moment on. My dad thought he
believed me. He thought that I lied and I almost
wrecked their marriage. So there was no way he
was going to let me be a police officer, let
alone join the cadets. And so those guys that
I was hanging around with at that time went on
to be police explorers. And I stopped hanging
around with them because they were doing police
explorer things and talking police explorer stuff.
So I hung around with the other guys. And the
rest is history. And that's so, so crazy. When
we talked before and you told me this story the
first time, I'm used to talking to some people,
many people on the show who, again, many of whom
found their way to the military, the police,
the fire, but their home life when they were
young. was awful you know like murder and drugs
and all kinds of stuff um but with yours it shows
the fragility of childhood where just a few bad
decisions can send the child the wrong way and
you know to you are by no means you know the
only person i've heard who has been in that same
situation who's caught um you know a mother or
father cheating and it's basically being bribed
or threatened or whatever it was not to to say
and who'd have thought that that one moment that
your your mom had no idea that particular decision
to ask you to do that would have such a detrimental
effect on your life for a couple of decades after
that yeah for the rest of my life because you
know it it set me on a different path and You
know, I've experienced all the bad that I've
experienced in my life, my drug addiction, the
gang life, the prison life. I know a lot of it
is self -inflicted, but the root to all of that
was my mom asking me to, you know, to lie to
my dad again. And I'm going to be honest, many
times through my life, I've always wondered what
would have happened if I would have just not
said anything to my dad at all, ignored the problem.
You know, my mom cheated on my dad for, I'm going
to say at least 30 years. But the time came where
my dad found out on his own that she was cheating.
And so as life went on, my dad chose not to know,
if that makes sense. Sadly, it does because it
actually happened to my parents too. He chose
not to know. There were several big fights that
they had throughout these 30 years where he himself
with his own eyes saw. Um, you know, but he chose
not to know. And he stood by my mom's side to
literally, Oh, here come the tears. He stood
by her side, literally to her last, her last
breath to when she passed away 10 years ago.
Um, and I was in prison when she died. So I wasn't
able to come home and mourn, but my dad loved
her to her last dying breath. Yeah, it's both
beautiful and tragic at the same time. He loved
her that strongly and oversaw all the other things.
And I'm sorry again for sending you down these
emotional paths. Oh, no, no. It's no problem.
It's life. It's what I'm here for, to tell my
story. And I thank you for letting me tell it.
Thank you very much. But it is what it is. It's
part of my story. It's a big turning point. I
was in prison when my mom passed away. I remember
the prison guards coming up to the cell to let
me know. It's hard to be incarcerated during
a time like that because I'm in a place where
I can't cry. I'm in a place where I have to be
in a state of war readiness with a second's notice.
I guess what made it worse was that I knew what
time the services were going to be starting.
So I can kind of guesstimate at what time she
would probably be lowered into her resting place.
And, you know, it killed me that day. It was
just crazy. Just, you know, trying to get a glimpse
of a clock, you know, trying to figure out, you
know, what's going on. And it was just, you know,
I wouldn't wish that upon my worst enemy. What
made it worse was that my petition to come home
to attend the services was denied. You know,
some guys do get to come home for services and
some don't. I wasn't allowed to, you know, even
though my family had the cash bond ready to pay
prison guards to escort me up and back to the
services. I think they you have to pay guards
24 hours around the clock to escort you all the
way home. I think you get like a 30 minute visit
at the service, just you alone, no family members,
no friends around. And then they take you right
back. But the judge wouldn't even give me that.
So I never really had that closure. Yeah, I'm
sorry. Well, then let's go back to the beginning
then. So from, you know, graduating high school,
finding yourself running with the wrong crowd
now, which is crazy. I've never heard of a gang
be started by a football team either. So that's
a bizarre turn of events, a positive, you know,
bonding experience with the sport that then kind
of spills over into going the wrong route. Yeah,
definitely. And that's exactly how it happened.
You know, we play against all these other different
football teams. And sometimes you end up fighting
at one of these football games because someone
hit someone too hard or whatever the case. And
it just turned into a gang. For a while there
in the 80s, some of these other football teams
also turned into gangs. But with time, they faded
away. Unfortunately, you know, the football team,
the gang that I ran with is still around to today
in 2020. You know, and it's just I'm not proud
of it, but that's where I came from, you know.
Yeah. So how did that initially lead you into,
you know, a road of crime and ultimately your
first arrest? Well, I started, you know, hanging
around with guys who, you know, we were all doing
drugs and some guys were doing different types
of drugs. I remember hanging around. There was
a set of brothers, one, two, three, I think there
was three or four brothers. who they're the ones
that introduced me to crack. And I remember I
always had a car, so I would always take them
and we would go by the dope. We'd go to Watts,
to the projects in Watts and by the dope, by
the crack. And the first three or four, I don't
know, five, six, seven times that I was with
them when they smoked it, when it was my turn
to hit it, I would fake the hit because I'd never
seen it. I wasn't sure what it was going to do
to me. And I wanted to see what it was going
to do to them first. And so. Like I said, the
first few times that we went, I would fake a
hit and just keep going until the day I said,
OK, well, it looks OK. Let me go ahead and take
this hit. And I took my first hit. I enjoyed
the high. But boy, did I not enjoy what it did
to me for the next 20 or so years. You know,
I was not ready for the ride that it took me
on. But it took me down some really dark roads.
You know, I was robbing and stealing and mugging
to get high. I was stealing from my wife, from
my mom, my grandma, my brother, from everybody.
You know, everybody that I could steal from,
I was going to steal from, you know. And things
got so bad, I was, you know, burglarizing houses
and just, you know, to be able to get high. And
then my prison career started, in and out of
prison all the time. I couldn't stay clean. I
was hooked. I was hooked on that. that crack
cocaine now what about um the ability to get
the drugs once you're in prison because again
i'm i try and preface this every time we discuss
prisons and and even the law enforcement side
i'm a fireman and i've not been incarcerated
before so um i don't pretend to to understand
but at the same time um you hear that you know
they're they're able to get the drugs in the
prisons as well so what was your personal experience
so believe it or not I did five prison terms.
The only time during my criminal career that
I was ever clean was when I was in prison. It
sounds ironic, but I wouldn't touch any dope
in prison because I'm trying to come home. I'm
trying not to get into any more trouble. And
on top of that, more than likely, I wasn't going
to be able to afford prison prices. There was
no way my family was going to pay my prison bill.
And if you can't pay those prison bills, you
can't pay that drug dealer, you're going to get
holes poked in you. So again, I was cleaned while
I was in prison. I was Michael Lopez, believe
it or not, while I was in prison. And I was aiming
to get out. I didn't want to lose any release
dates. I was trying to get out and start all
over again. Not the drug life, but to start life
over again. And every time I got out, I just,
you know, I fell after, you know, a certain amount
of time, certain amount of time, just kept falling
and going right back into prison because I kept
coming home to my homeboys. You know, that's
the thing that I didn't change. And that's what
kept sending me right back. But, you know, there's
any drug available in prison, you know, five
times the price that you'd pay for on the street.
But any drug is available in prison. You know,
I hung out with the drug dealers and stuff like
that. I mean, if I wanted something, it was there.
Credit was good. You just better be able to pay
it. And I wasn't ready to start that road. I've
seen a lot of things happen to people in prison
when they can't pay their drug debts. I saw a
lot of people pick up charges for getting caught
for possessions and stuff like that. It just
didn't seem worth it to me in prison. I guess
I was more of a gambler outside of prison. So
that's such a fascinating perspective because
that shows you intrinsically that you had the
ability. to stop and that it was the environment
ultimately that set you up for failure when you
came back out of prison. Yeah, definitely. I
always came back with the intention of doing
good. But after, you know, a little shorter time,
I fell right back to being, you know, who I used
to be. Right. Now, we also talked before about...
When you first entered jail, well, very poignant
was the sign that you told me about reading.
But then tell me about that, but how also that
ties in with race as well. So we were talking,
I remember what you're talking about. It's the
prison system. There's a different system between
the prison system and, say, the local county
jail system. But in prison, my very first time,
I remember stepping off the bus, shackled my
wrist to my waist and shackled at the feet. And
you step off the bus and, you know, you look
up and the very first sign that's right in front
of you painted on the wall, bright yellow, it
says no warning shots, no warning shots. So it
took a few minutes for that to sink into what
that meant. I hadn't realized the world that
I was now in. And once I put it together, it
became very scary, especially when I walked onto
that yard the first time and you look up and
you see the guard towers and you see the prison
guards. you know, up there with their rifles.
You know, it's like, wow, you know, what did
I get myself into? What the hell am I doing here?
It was a very scary, eerie feeling. Another thing
that I was talking about or that I mentioned
is that the racism, the violence that the system
itself promotes, the second you step off the
bus, you see that sign and then you're being
asked, who do you run with? Meaning, you know,
Who do you run with? Are you running with Mexican
gangs, black gangs, with the North, with the
South, with the whites? Who are you? And then
they segregate you according to who you run with.
So now you're being separated in all these different
cells. So now, you know, this cell is Northern
Mexicans. One cell is Southern Mexicans. One
cell has the Bloods. One cell has the Crips.
And you're all just fighting from behind cell
bars until you're let out into those prison yards.
So it's like the system itself promotes that
racism. They promote that violence. Instead of
just mixing everyone together, they separate
you and they let you run with who you run with.
Yeah, and we've discussed prisons a few times
on here. And again, my whole thing is obviously…
looking at what we're doing and then asking the
question, are we doing it the best way? And looking
at other countries and the way they do the prison
system. And two glaring things that we talked
about earlier is firstly, the drug policy here.
I wonder if you took out every single prisoner
that had some sort of relationship with drugs,
whether they were selling, smuggling, like you
were doing, actually being an addict and turning
the crime to feed your habit. what impact would
that have on on the systems and the other thing
is say for example the norway one that we spoke
about i've talked about on this uh this podcast
too instead of segregating and locking people
away you know what if if it was some of these
models where you are integrated and you do live
together and you have to cook and you have to
clean you have to go to work and you learn a
new trade and you know so you're You're taught
to be that member of the community that's going
to go back and hopefully thrive the next time.
And I don't see, from a completely layman's standpoint,
just a regular citizen. the way that we're doing
working and the prison population has exploded.
I mean, I told you the statistics, the seventies,
we had 350 ,000 prisoners. Now we have 2 .3 million
prisoners. So that's definitely not, not working.
Yeah. Something's not working. No. And, and that's
the thing. And my goal is as a first responder,
you know, I, I want to obviously the part of
me as, as a human being wants to, to minimize
the amount of people that go to jail and just
lock away the ones that are truly sociopaths
that are, you know, to have no morals and an
absolute dangerous society. And then, you know,
have the other people all integrated and thrive
and be great members of society. But also, you
know, the prison guards, the men and women of
law enforcement that are in the prisons, you
know, their safety. I mean, they have to be in
these rooms with no windows and not see daylight
and not see trees and grass and fear for their
lives. So, you know, it's not about damning the
prison system. It's just asking the question,
Can we not do it better? Yeah, definitely. You
know, a lot of the change, I mean, if you took
away everyone who was in prison for a drug -related
offense, whether it's sales, the use, or the
smugglers, you know, and you put them in a different
prison, the violence and stuff would still be
there. Because as you're talking to me and I'm
listening, I'm trying to picture a model, you
know, the change has to come from within. It's
us inmates, us prisoners that decide when we're
going to riot, when we're going to stop rioting,
when we're going to allow the prison system to
run smoothly. The same way I told you that when
I go to prison, I decided to stop using drugs
while I was in prison. I mean, if everybody had
that mentality, you probably wouldn't end up
going back to prison. At the same time, you have
to think about the aftercare. Once we're released
back into the community, what resources are available
to us? But going back into the prisons, I mean,
if I can do it, and I was a true righteous addict
going into prison, but it's just as soon as I
hit those cells, I was clean. So if I can do
it, that's proof to me that it's change that
has to come from within. Why couldn't everybody
just think that way? You know, even though I
was on those prison yards running and doing the
stuff that I had to do to survive, I knew in
the back of my mind that one day I'm going to
be clean. But there were those times, you know,
especially after having picked up my second strike
here in California, then my mind. My way of thinking
changed, and then I started thinking, what's
going to be my third strike? I was no longer
thinking, oh, I'm going to be good one day. I
had already given up on that hope of changing
because once I picked up that second strike,
I was just waiting. What is my third strike going
to be? And I had already given up. Even though
I gave up on myself, the only person that didn't
give up on me was God because even my parents
gave up on me. They locked the doors, they changed
the locks, they kicked me out. My first wife
left me, neighbors were afraid of me. You know,
if I got in a two block radius from where my
parents live, you know, people were calling my
dad, hey, I just seen him walking down the street.
You know, I was bad, but it has to come from
the person because, you know, and I have to speak
for myself. It came from me. I was able to do
it. So why can't everybody do it? If you have
an environment where it's set up for people to
succeed, And then you have someone that's motivated.
Obviously, the end result is going to be that
they're going to do well. But if you have someone
that's motivated in an environment where they're
not set up to succeed, that creates more problems.
So we have to look at both. We have to motivate
the individuals to believe that they can kick
addiction or get out of a life of violence. But
also, we have to look at the system because is
that setting people up for success or failure?
Yeah, the system has a lot to do with it because
I know I shared with you yesterday my story of
what happened to me after I went to school and
got a truck driver's license. So I came home
from prison and it was a friend of mine who had
also been out on parole who told me about the
California Department of Vocational Rehab. And
I went there to get interviewed to see what they
can help me out with. I wanted to go to truck
driving school. So I qualified. I met the criteria
of being currently on parole. And they were able
to pay for my truck driving school. I got my
license. I got my CDL. And I found a job immediately
driving a big rig. And the company that I was
employed by went all over California. It was
Golden State Trucking, I think it was. And they
had contracts with Eggside Battery. And so I
was driving from Northern California to Southern
California all week long. Part of my parole condition
was to be able to drug test weekly. And not being
in Los Angeles County for most of the time because
I was driving around up north, I was able to
get the drug testing done in a parole office
up in Stockton, I believe. But then the people
at the Stockton parole office began to question,
well, who's getting paid to supervise Michael
Lopez? Is Stockton getting the money or is LA
County getting the money? And so that became
a big deal to the state. And ultimately, my parole
office here in Los Angeles decided to have me
terminate my job because there was a matter of
who's going to get the credit for drug testing
me. And so I was really upset because, hey, I
went to school. I did what I needed to do to
get my license. I did what I needed to do to
get a job. I've been drug testing for, what,
I don't know, six months clean. I'm working.
I'm sending my money home to my wife, you know,
while I'm out on the road. And now I have to
quit because you guys are fighting over who's
going to get the credit for drug testing me.
So I remember calling my local representative
at the time. Her name was Martha Escutia. And
I presented my case to her. And within a couple
of days, I guess she contacted the parole office.
And I don't know what she told them. But they
called me back and said, OK, go ahead and get
your job back. So I'm assuming she said, hey,
you better give this guy's job back. I mean,
he's on parole. He's doing great. Why would you
interfere? So the system there, you know, over
fighting over money was willing to let me fall
again. You know, so the system that's designed
to help me, I mean, they. call themselves the
California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.
But they weren't rehabilitating me. They were
trying to make sure I failed again. But I did
what I needed to do at that time. I made the
calls to the right people and was able to get
my job back. Even though it didn't work out for
me in the end, ultimately, ultimately, I did
end up falling again, going back to drugs. And
I myself let my... My CDL expired because I knew
that wasn't the profession for me any longer.
I was now back on dope. And, you know, to have
me high on crack, driving a big rig over these
highways was not safe for me or anyone. So I
on my own let that expire. But just the fact
that I did, I gave it an honest try. And the
system was the first to try to drag me down.
I know. And I'm sure there's some great, great
people in prisons that are really bending over
backwards to try and do good things. And I know
everyone listening that's a member of a police
department or a fire department is probably banging
their head against a brick wall trying to implement
things to make their departments better. I know
I did in my last place. But fundamentally, if
we have a prison system that's profit -based,
that people make money from having more prisoners.
That inherently seems like it's setting up for
failure. The same way as the country I come from,
we had national health. And, you know, where
we are now in the States, it's a profit -based
healthcare system. So people make money off sick
Americans, you know. Yeah, that's all it is.
It's all about the money. I mean, in the California
prison system, you know, nowadays, my last prison
stint was 10 years ago. They now have something
new to where back in the day, my family can go
to the market and put me together a quarterly
package of canned goods, of clothing, anything
they wanted to send me, but that had a 30 -pound
weight limit. They can send me anything they
wanted. Now they can no longer do that. Families
are forced to buy from a certain catalog that
I understand is prison guard -owned. It's a prison
guard -owned company. to where you have to buy
the packages from them. So it's all about the
money. Yeah. And I think, like I said, just to
be clear, my goal is for us to make people's
lives better, to be safer for the guards, to
be in an environment where you're not worried
about being shanked. And we have to reverse engineer
some of the ways that we've done these things.
Because, again, I mean, if you look, you don't
have to be a genius statistician to see the trend,
for example, in the prison population here to
ask the question. this is not working. What can
we do that's different? I know that some prisons
in America have already been to places like Norway
and are starting to take elements of their system
back. I think, was it Attica, I think was one
of them. But yeah, I mean, good for them. You
know, that's what we need is innovators in these
fields because we don't, you know, all we do
when we lock up people and create the system
is it make it more dangerous for... the people
in the cities and towns, the first responders.
I mean, I've had paramedics that have been stabbed
on this show, police officers that have been
attempted executions on, I mean, all kinds of
things. So it's making the nation safer. And
then taking these little boys and girls that
find their way through these paths, especially
if they were set up kind of for failure with
some pretty shitty childhoods. and steering them
back. So they become doctors, lawyers, paramedics,
police officers, whatever. So this isn't a demonizing
of prisons or saying that all prisoners grew
up this way and should be forgiven, but it's
just... how can we do it better? And when I talk
to people like you and all the other guests that
we've discussed this particular topic, as a regular
member of society, it seems like there are elements
we could do to reduce the number of people that
even go to prison through marijuana, prostitution,
things like that, use models that are legalizing
them. So all of a sudden these are just addicts
or prostitutes are actually in a brothel that's
clean and they're not getting murdered like I've
seen in my career. And then, you know, use that
money in psychological counseling and addiction
counseling and job creation so then we can steer
this giant ship that's going the wrong way back
to the way it should be going. Yes, definitely.
I mean, you can't find a drug rehabilitation
center here in L .A. that has room because there's
no funding for them. There's no space. There's
no bed space available. But there's a lot of
money available to keep building prisons. I don't
understand that. I mean, people need help. Yes,
people are going to keep falling in their addiction,
but it's part of recovery. You're not going to
get it right the first time. Look at me. It took
me 10 times to get it. I don't know how many
times, but I got it. It took me to actually run
out of gas to get tired of the lifestyle. But
more resources need to be available to people,
to addicts. You know, to addicts, you know, there's
not enough drug rehabs. Yeah. Well, let's steer
you out of the prison system. So tell me about
that. Tell me about that moment where you made
the decision to finally, you know, not only get
off the path of crime, but also addiction as
well. So one day, let's see, 2006, I'm going
to say somewhere maybe 2007, somewhere around
there. I was in my living room watching television
and a commercial came on the TV. And this is
the honest to God truth. And a lot of people
laugh when I say this story, but it was my turning
point. A commercial came on where the guy is
on the TV and says, hey, you, yeah, you just
sitting right there. What are you going to do
about your future? You know, time to go back
to school, something like that. And so it caught
my attention. And as I was reading the programs
that were available at this certain school, youth
advocate popped up and I was curious, youth advocate,
what is that? And after doing the research, I
pretty much translated it into being a gang counselor.
Hey, I can do that. I know gangs, you know, and
so I did the footwork to get enrolled in school.
I went back to school and I did earn my bachelor's
degree, ironically, in criminal justice. Because
I set out to be a gang counselor. But through
all the people that I met going to school, the
idea of what I wanted to do changed so many times.
And after graduating with a bachelor's degree
in criminal justice, I enrolled to Argosy University
in the city of Orange. And I earned a master's
degree in 2014, a master's in forensic psychology.
How I ended up in the psychology field. I have
no idea. I guess it was God's plan. But that's
what I'm doing now with my bachelor's or I'm
sorry, my master's degree. I was able to land
a spot with the Mental Health Association of
Orange County. I am a supervisor now. I supervise
three advocates. And what we do is we advocate
for patients who are on an involuntary hold on
psychiatric units throughout Orange County. And
there it is. You know, I'm back in the workforce.
I'm a supervisor at that. After having been through
everything I've been through, I'm now the guy
that people fax their resumes to trying to get
a job. It amazes me. I wish I can keep going
to school. I can't afford to keep going to school.
I'd like to earn a doctorate and maybe a social
work or criminal justice. But I went back to
school and I was amazed at the fact that I'm
still teachable. After everything I've been through,
after everything I've done, everything I've seen,
I'm still teachable. And I give all my thanks
to God for having that master plan for me, even
though I was blind all those years. But I'm still
teachable. And so I'm going to be 52. I've had
this current job for going on six years. As an
adult, I've never had a job over 90 days. And
that's the honest to goodness truth. I've always
had a job, but I always lost them because I got
caught stealing from my job or I got arrested
somewhere down the line and lost those jobs.
But when I made up my mind to go back to school
to stop that life, my mind was made up. I was
tired. I ran out of gas. People say, what was
your turning point? I probably missed a whole
bunch of turning points. But it took me to running
out of gas. I got tired of the lifestyle, man.
I just, I threw in the towel. I'm good. I'm not
going to beat the system. You know, and I lost
a lot in my fire, you know, being in prison when
my mom died and all that kind of stuff, losing
my first wife. I now have a relationship with
my two older daughters. I get to go see my grandkids.
But, you know, I'm living life now. I do a lot
of public speaking at, you know, local universities
and colleges. You know, I tell these kids that
are in these classrooms, these students, you
know, even though they're adults, I still call
them kids. Something that's big for me is in
my back pocket, I have a debit card with my name
on it, with a pin number that I set. I didn't
hack it. I didn't steal it. It's my debit card.
And even though I've only had it for six years,
it's brand new to me, brother. It's brand new
to me. And it's amazing. You know, I have a checkbook
with my name and there's money in the bank account.
My bills are paid. I'm not running from the law.
I'm providing for my family. I care about the
population that I serve. I've even started a
nonprofit called Mission Echo, a legitimate nonprofit
where we feed the homeless on Skid Row. And I
have the backing of the lowrider community nationwide.
Many of us, many of us are convicted felons.
They see my cause. They see my mission. I've
been loyal to it. And we have grown in six years
feeding the homeless on Skid Row in downtown
LA. As a matter of fact, I think that's how you
came across me. You saw the news segment that
Channel 7 here in LA did. realize that a lot
of this addiction, a lot of the crime, even violence,
you know, is attributed to a lot of mental health
issues. Because, I mean, from my perspective,
you know, these drugs are basically filling voids
in people's souls. Yes, and they're, I mean,
they're even taking people's souls. You know,
the stuff that I see is so heartbreaking, you
know, driving up and down Skid Row. feeding homeless
people, advocating for these patients on these
psychiatric units. It's a very sad thing. And
a lot of it is drug -induced, and some of it
is hereditary. But to know that the drug -induced
ones can still be saved, you can be helped, and
there's no help for them, or not enough help,
not enough resources. It's just a sad thing to
see how I ended up in forensic psychology. I
have no idea. I still ask myself today, Lord,
what were you thinking? I never, ever in a million
years thought I'd be doing what I'm doing right
now. If you'd have told me in the 90s that, hey,
in 2020, man, you're going to be clean, you're
going to come across 10 years clean and sober,
and you're going to be a supervisor, and you're
going to be remarried and kids, I would have
laughed at you because in the 90s, I was ready
to throw in the towel waiting for that third
strike to hit. But my day came and I was just
tired, brother. I was just tired, man. It's amazing.
Well, you mentioned the involuntary hold. So
a few weeks ago, I think it was the beginning
of December, my son actually got sent to a psych
ward. Very long story short, he had been going
through some depression and had... basically
been led through a visualization exercise by
a teacher totally innocently and he started getting
upset and basically he was triggered he was thinking
about the beach and he'd had a kind of like a
near drowning experience at the beach a while
ago um he didn't actually nearly drown but he
got pulled out by riptides and it scared the
shit out of him um but so he starts tearing up
he starts seeing some of these you know images
of death and things he tells the counselor he
sent to, and they bakeracked him, which is in
Florida when you send it to an involuntary hold
for a child. Didn't fit any of the protocols
for the school. And I mean, it was one of the
worst two days. No, absolutely the worst two
days of my life. But just like you said, you
couldn't get to your mother. It was averse. I
couldn't get to my son. I couldn't get my son
out of this place. And it was awful. And so after
this whole thing, and I got him out, I started
researching. And I mean, not just in this county,
in the state of Florida, there's a complete abuse
of this in the school systems. And it's a kind
of knee jerk from, I think, from the Parkland
shooting that we had in South Florida in 2015.
And these schools, and it was nauseating because
I went all the way up the chain on both sides.
The schools blamed the sheriff's department.
The sheriff's department blamed the schools.
And it was disgusting because no one took ownership
of this. And no one was held accountable. You
could just make up the rules, send a child to
a holding facility, and no one would come after
you. It was awful. And as I pulled the stats,
I mean, not only were there... exponentially
more kids sent to these facilities but my son's
school was was reappearing over and over and
over again and i'm not done with pursuing that
for everyone listening um but so that i got to
witness that very very recently through a child's
eyes so when you said that that was what you
kind of specialized in at the moment what is
your um uh you know what have you witnessed with
those holds children and adults through through
your experience Well, first of all, I come across
a lot of patients who are homeless, and so many
of these holds are written for patients who don't
really need to be on an involuntary hold. I've
come to find out that doctors don't always follow
the protocol of offering the patient voluntary
treatment. They just automatically write them
up on these 5250s and place them on involuntary
holds. I've also come across certain hospitals
in Orange County where certain police departments
are often putting people on 5150s just because
they recognize them on the street. It's like
a gang member. I can be walking down the street
and a cop who's arrested me five times will stop
me and arrest me for something. Well, a lot of
these police officers. are doing the same thing
in a certain city in Orange County where they
recognize, hey, that's so -and -so. We put her
on a 5150. She's out already. They'll pull over
and put her on another bogus 5150, and then the
doctor will automatically put it on a 5250. So
it's the abuse of power that I'm seeing with
my own eyes, both by law enforcement and by hospital
staff. I do work on adolescent units on Mondays
and Thursdays with kids who are in group homes,
foster homes with a lot of issues. And I mean,
sad, sad issues, sad, sad problems going on at
home. A lot of these kids just automatically
being, you know, put on involuntary holds as
well to where if you're already in a group home
and there's therapeutic help there for you and,
you know, you have all these counselors. Why
would they put you on an involuntary hold? Use
the resources that are out there. I had a patient
a few weeks back on an adolescent unit, a seven
-year -old who was placed on an involuntary hold.
Now, how am I supposed to walk into a hospital
room and explain criteria of an involuntary hold
to a seven -year -old? And you hear that age
over and over again. You Google that in anyone's
county, there will be those stories. And the
thing is, let me be very clear, that the 5150,
the Baker Act, absolutely has a place for someone
who is an immediate danger to themselves or others.
But that's being interpreted, especially in the
schools, as you even say the word kill or death
or whatever, and they're just, you know. literally
locking these kids up and like hold on time out
i mean it says in their protocols very clearly
like you need to separate between a kid talking
imagination you know lip service and a threat
like a substantive threat and that's not the
case and what was sad is when my little boy was
in there when i went to visit him there were
two other kids from the same fucking school from
the same school at the same time in this facility
And again, I didn't obviously get to talk to
them. They were someone else's children. But
you could tell that they were not in crisis.
I've been a medic for 15 years. I know what someone
in crisis looks like. These kids were quiet and
reading. And then when their parents, they were
teary -eyed when their parents came to visit.
And that's the thing is just like I said, making
this country better is I think I get the knee
jerk after these shootings and the violence that
we see. The pendulum seems to have swung the
complete other way. And the sad thing is the
people that need to be there, now we're diluting
the services in these facilities because they're
sending everyone there. And the people that are
truly in crisis that are suicidal or, you know,
homicidal, not getting the attention they need
now. No, not at all. Because especially in schools,
I mean, everyone's worried about, you know, being
sued. for not recognizing something ahead of
time. It's a liability. So everyone's running
to the use of the 5150 to cover it up and to
hopefully let someone else figure it out. But
at the same time, you're hurting the people you're
supposed to be trying to help. 5150 is pretty
deep. It's pretty deep to be put on a 5150, let
alone a 5250, because you're scarring that child.
You know, you're exposing that child to a righteous
psychiatric unit to where they're mixed with
kids who really, really need to be there. But
now you've scarred these kids who didn't really
need to be there. So you're putting them on that
path. Absolutely. And then, like you said, with
the foster system, you know, and again, there
are some amazing facilities out there. I'm just
picking on the ones that aren't, you know, but
we've got to take a step back and remember that
when you and I went to school and I've spoken
about this a few times. All we had to worry about
at school was the fire alarm. And I don't know
about you, but that never triggered me. I never
had visions of me burning to death in a school.
It was just a fun way of getting out of class
for 30 minutes. Yes. And I will admit, I pulled
a few of those fire alarms. I did. I'm not going
to lie. But yeah, that's all we had to worry
about. Yeah. Now they have drills where they
have to pretend someone's coming in to murder
them. And my little boy's been through two actual
code reds where they... genuinely thought someone
was in the school coming to the school and you
telling me that that's not sending these kids
on edge so you've got them you know going through
that then you you literally are shipping them
off in police cars every time they even show
any emotion whatsoever and and it's it's terrible
we need to pull the reins back on some of these
you know these knee jerk um holds because like
you said it is damaging the kids and it's also
you know uh clogging up these facilities for
the people that absolutely need them so and what's
sad is when i talked about this you mentioned
the foster homes that's what i was told i had
either one of two things parents told me oh it
happened to my child so i pulled them out of
school and i say well did you do anything about
it no i just moved schools or other people told
me so many kids that it happens to are like you
said from foster systems and things where they
don't have anyone to advocate for them So it's
time that, you know, I mean, you're already doing
it and that's amazing. But in this area that
someone needs to stand up and be like, what the
hell are we doing here? You know, because they're
just getting away with it. And I know it's not
malicious. I know these teachers aren't waking
up, you know, just planning to mess up some child's
mind. But at the same time, until someone calls
them on it, it's not going to change. Yeah, no
one's being held accountable for what they're
doing. They're just passing the buck and locking
the kids up. Yeah, yeah, exactly. All right.
Well, you mentioned Mission Echo. So let's transition
to that. I love the story of how that first started
with the donuts. And then lead me through where
you are now. The donuts. So what happened was
six years ago when I first started working the
job that I'm currently doing, I was really exposed
to the homeless population in Orange County.
I dabbed a little bit because my addiction took
me to being homeless, not for very long, but
long enough to say, wait a minute, what the hell
am I doing here? And so when I started working
for the Mental Health Association of Orange County,
being exposed big time to skid rows in Orange
County and the population, one Saturday I talked
to my wife and I said, hey, let's go out and
buy some coffee and donuts and pizza and let's
go out to Civic Center in Orange County. And
so that's what we did. Bought 15 pizzas and I
think like 10 dozen donuts, something like that.
I bought myself my own industrial coffee maker
and we bought an egg glue and we filled it up
with coffee. And my wife and I and my seven -year
-old daughter at the time and my five -year -old
son at the time, we went out to Civic Center
in Orange County and gave out all this coffee,
pizza and donuts. And what I did was I posted
a couple of pictures of what we were doing for
the day on Instagram. And, you know, I also told
you that I DJ on the weekends for low rider car
shows. So a lot of my Instagram followers who
are car club members, they started chiming in
with, hey, Mike, the next time you go out, let
me know. And our car club will donate 10 pizzas.
Our car club will buy the coffee and the creamer
and the cups. Our car club will do this and this.
And that baby just took off. It's grown so big.
I've received so much support from the lowrider
community nationwide to where we are now feeding
1 ,200 people twice a year. I hold a big event
once in June and once in December. We're going
into our sixth year of feeding the homeless people
on Skid Row in L .A. because I live in L .A.
And 100 % of my funding comes from donors, from
lowrider car clubs, from ex -felons, from ex
-gang members. Um, from, you know, people like
you who saw my story, who are now follow following
our mission, echo Instagram, who PayPal a donation,
Zen, uh, Zell Venmo and stuff like that. And,
you know, it was one of those deals like you
heard in my story. I, you know, I asked God,
man, clean me up and I'll do whatever you want
me to do. And so he was faithful to his, he cleaned
me, cleaned me up. But he sent me back to Skid
Row, you know, different capacity. I'm doing
something different. But that's the job that
he had for me. And let me tell you, when it comes
to serving these homeless people, I do it wholeheartedly.
I do it with a joy. And here I go tearing up
again. I love these people. I mean, they're people.
It's none of our business why they're homeless.
We all know why they're there. I know why I was
there. Some people are drug addicted. Some people
are lazy and just want to be there. Some people
are mentally ill. It doesn't matter, man. It's
only food. And so I thank God that I'm no longer
there. And I thank God for those people who were
out feeding us. And so now I'm part of a group
of people who I won't forget those people in
the struggle. As an addict, I know what it's
like. To want to be clean so bad, you just can't
fucking get it. But you're a hair away. Don't
stop trying. And, you know, like my day finally
came. I know those people's days are going to
come for some, you know, but we started. I've
been feeding the people with the help from my
Instagram followers for six years. But in June
of 2019. I finally went nonprofit. We filed for
a nonprofit organization. It's called Mission
Echo, and Echo stands for X Cholo Helping Others.
Now, the story behind that, my friend, is in
1995, I was in a prison cell, and I had just
come back from, and I don't remember if I came
back from church or one of these self -help group
motivational speakers. But I remember going back
to my cell, being fired up, thinking, one day,
man, one day I'm going to be good. I'm going
to get this thing called life, and I want to
come back and help people. The way these tattooed
convicted felons just came into this prison to
help us, and then they get to go home tonight,
I want to do that same thing. And so what do
we have to do in our prison cells other than
think? Nothing. So I'm thinking and thinking
and thinking. And, you know, what would I call
my program? And I came up with Echo. X Cholo
helping others. But at the same time, I want
the example that we're setting to echo on and
on and on. And for everyone to do a little tiny
part. And it has caught on, my friend. You know,
we're going to be having a Feed the Homeless
event in Las Vegas. We're working on a Feed the
Homeless event in Northern California. People,
my Instagram followers are reaching out. Hey,
Mike, we want to branch off to what you've started
in L .A. And that's the point of Echo. And everybody's
in because everybody sees that I've been true.
Everybody sees that when I ask you to PayPal
a donation, they know exactly where their money
is going because I've had volunteers come from
Vegas. From Stockton, from Phoenix, from all
over California to come and volunteer their day
to feed the homeless. And then they go back and
tell their people, wow, man, Mike's feeding a
whole bunch of people. It's not me. It's everybody
together. And so this thing that started out
with coffee, pizza, and donuts has just gone
viral pretty much. You know what I mean? Yeah.
No, I think it's amazing. And I think what's
inspiring is… Where you came from as well. And
I think that is a beacon of hope to, like you
said, people that are struggling, whether it's
addiction, whether it's being on a road of crime,
whatever it is. Whatever it is. Yeah. Like you
said, the men that came into your prison that
talked to you. And then now you're that guy.
And I think that not only are you feeding them,
but you're also showing people, well, look, this
doesn't define you. Just because this is where
you are today doesn't mean that's going to be
who you are in five years from now. Exactly.
Who would have thought that I was going to have
a master's degree? I wish my mom could have seen
me walk that stage with my master's degree. Who
would have thought that I'd have it? But I have
it. And now I'm using it. And not only that,
I'm just so grateful at a new life that I'm not
going to forget the people in the struggle. I
mean, there's people out there barefooted. There's
people out there with only a pair of shorts on.
You know, I mean, you were in Orange County.
You know exactly what I'm talking about. And
that shouldn't be happening. Those are people
that somebody's mom, somebody's dad. OK, so they've
made the wrong decision. Who hasn't? It doesn't
matter the magnitude, but there you know, there's
people suffering and we should be out there.
Those of us who can be out there helping, you
know. sacrifice a 12 -pack or sacrifice a drink
at Starbucks and donate those five bucks to our
nonprofit, and I will take your money and go
out and feed the homeless people. If you don't
have the time to do it, I will do it for you.
Again, I've had so much support with this nonprofit
and our mission, and God's blessed it, and it's
caught on. Look, it reached you all the way in
Florida. Yep, it did indeed. Now, how many when
you when you're meeting all these homeless men
and women, are you seeing a large portion of
them as veterans as well? To be honest, I'm sure
there are a lot of veterans out there. I'm sure
there are. I don't know if they're veterans unless
they share their story with me. And I will say
that I have come across a lot of story of veterans,
veterans out on Skid Row. Yeah, because I mean,
again, the knee jerk of the, let's say, less
altruistic people out there is, you know, the
get a job using the word bum and all these things,
which I fucking hate that word. But and again,
you have to take a step back and look at these
men and women. And I use this example all the
time. Go go way back. Go to when they were toddlers.
You honestly think that their dreams were one
day to live under a bridge. You know, to beg
for money, you know, and people like, oh, they're
probably going to use it on drugs. Do you, I
mean, even if they did, would you think they
chose to stand next to a red light, you know,
hoping that you might roll down your window and,
you know, throw a core at them? No, of course
they didn't. No. And then you're right. And you
have to be part of the solution. How do you cure
homelessness in this country? You give a shit.
You start, you know, dealing with the mental
health issues, the addiction issues. You know,
and then, you know, that way they're not going
to be on the street. They're going to be paying
taxes and, you know, working alongside you. So
I hate it when you hear of, you know, oh, they
drove the homeless out of their town to the other
town. Or, you know, we see this a lot in our
community, you know, the law enforcement and
not picking on them. It's a systemic problem.
But we have to view these people as. human beings
as men and women and just like you said there
but by the grace of god go i if i had made a
shitty decision it could be me you know covered
in dirt wearing you know like you said barefoot
begging for food yeah you know um we have to
care like you said that's how we're going to
fix this problem we can't wait for the politicians
to do it because they only care during election
time we are out there you can go to skid row
in downtown la at any time of the day any day
of the weekend there's a non -profit out there
giving church or feeding the homeless or providing
help, providing help. But there's not enough
people giving help. There's not enough, there
aren't enough resources out there for mental
health issues. There's not enough resources out
there for education or housing, you know, stuff
like that. There's just not enough. Yeah, you
know, you see on the news that these companies
are providing these little mini homes that they're
going to be putting under, you know, the overpass
of a freeway. But just because you get them off
the sidewalk doesn't mean the problem is gone.
That person needs drug rehab or mental health
rehab or a job or whatever it is. Just getting
them off the sidewalk isn't fixing the problem.
No. More has to be done. Exactly. It's give a
man a fish versus teach a man a fish. Exactly.
You just give them a meal and that's it. Then
it's not solving anything. But like you said,
if you're able to then direct them into… counseling
and i know the tiny homes that i told you about
was a um a group of veterans that are doing it
in the midwest and they they do that they they
help kind of filter them into counseling they
they you know get them job creation they help
buy a suit so they can go to their interview
and then that house is their address which is
another vicious circle i know a lot of people
that are homeless get into like it's hard to
get to be to have all the paperwork in place
to be employable when you don't even have an
address Exactly. Even a cell phone. I know it's
hard because so many people abuse the resources
that are given to them, and there's nothing we
can do about that. What I mean by is that these
phones, people here in LA or California call
them Obama phones, but the phones that are given
out to the homeless people, yes, a lot of people
do use them to continue their drug dealing business.
And yes, a lot of people do use them to keep
contact with family. But what are you supposed
to do? You can't not help the people that are
accepting the help just because there's someone
abusing it, if that makes sense. Oh, it makes
perfect sense. Karma. Karma will come in and
take care of whoever's supposed to be taken care
of. But I don't know. It's really sad to see
people suffering, truly suffering, whether it
was a decision they made or not. They're suffering.
So, you know, again, I say to the people, if
you can help, please help. You know, every once
in a while on my Instagram, like once, twice
a week, I'll post up, hey, can you buy a cheeseburger
for a homeless person today? And so many people
will take a picture of it and hashtag it's only
food or hashtag everybody's got to eat, which
is one of our hashtags, you know, to show, hey,
we did it. We're helping. It's not that, you
know, then you got the people who say, well,
if you're going to help the homeless, leave the
cameras at home. No, no, it's not about that.
It's about, you know, I grew by posting pictures
of what I did and look what happened. You're
going to get negative comments from the people
who aren't donating a penny. You're going to
get comments from the people who aren't lifting
a finger to help. You know, so again, you're
not going to be part of the solution. Don't be
part of the problem because it's through pictures
that Mission Echo exists today. It's through
pictures that you found me. Yep, exactly. And
I think that's just it. I make this point as
well. You see some of these horrendous videos
of bullying or something, they'll get watched
a lot. But then when you see these acts of kindness...
usually it's someone you know filming there was
the one in new york recently where they lifted
the suv off the pedestrian that was run over
yes you know that goes viral because people want
to see good things now if you're the only person
there filming well this person's bleeding to
death you should probably put your damn phone
down and help but you know in that situation
people were like oh why didn't they help and
the reality was this person was across the street
And there were so many people on that car, there
wouldn't have been space to help anyway. You
know what I mean? So, but yeah, I mean, I think
that people need to see that. And of course,
we're aware of the guys that want to be YouTube
famous, that film themselves giving a homeless
person a dollar. And then the whole video is
about the person, not the, not the, not the,
but that doesn't matter. No, it's those kinds
of people that hurt what we're doing. Yeah. But
I don't know if I can say hurting because my
nonprofit has been able to grow support -wise.
But those people, before you know it, they'll
get tired of taking their little selfie, helping
the person that they're helping, and then it'll
stop. But again, my mission has gone on for six
years because I've been true to it. And everyone
gets involved. Little League baseball teams come
out to volunteer. Schools come out to volunteer.
You know, just so many people. I've had doctors
from Kaiser on my front lawn helping roll breakfast
burritos. I think that's the ultimate, man. You
know, hey, one of the students that was in a
crowd at East L .A. College where I was speaking
was an RN at a Kaiser. She, you know, latched
on to my nonprofit and she pulled some doctors
from Kaiser to come on out and help us feed the
homeless. And they were like, wow, this is great.
You know, look what an ex -cholo did. Look what
an ex -crack addict is doing now, you know. People,
I mean, everything is transparent. You know,
I let people know how much money was raised at
a certain event. You know, if you PayPal me or
Venmo me a $20 donation or a $400 donation, your
receipt is going up on our Instagram, you know.
It's grown because it's real, man. You know,
it's great. I wake up in the morning, you know,
how can I, you know, fundraise today? How much
can I raise today, you know? It's like a challenge
to me. What else can I do? Because we started
out with coffee, pizza, and donuts. Now we're
doing coffee, pizza, donuts, burritos, chicken,
soda, water, toilet tissue, beanies, gloves,
socks, bananas, pastries. It has grown because
of pictures. And the people benefiting are the
people on Skid Row. Absolutely. And you mentioned
as well about the abuse. I wanted to make sure
we talk about this as well. You hear that a lot.
Oh, as I said before, if I give it to them, they're
just going to buy alcohol, whatever. And we have
a habit for some reason of focusing on that.
When you think about government assistance, oh,
there's these people that, you know, it happens
in England. There are cases where, yes, there
are people that get these free houses and all
this stuff while other people are getting nothing.
But the reality is those are the exceptions to
the rules. And those shitbags exist. All the
way up the chain. And you look in the business
world, how many cases are there of people stealing
people's pension funds and not paying taxes?
But it's always aimed at the poor. And it's like,
no, that type of human element is all the way
up. So if you're going to start saying that,
well, then you better start chatting about these
big companies too. Yeah, definitely. So you have
to lead by example. And like you said, be the
change and not be put off. helping because of
the off chance that you might be helping the
one person who's a turd because the reality is
much greater chance that you're going to help
someone in that moment of kindness may even be
may even be that moment where they go that was
it i'm going to change today you never know exactly
you know you have no idea you might be someone's
answer to what they've been praying for but if
you're afraid of losing that dollar you just
killed someone's blessing You know, so what I
tell people, you know, and my wife knows and,
you know, close friends that know me, I won't
give you a nickel. I won't give you a quarter.
But come on in. Let's go inside. I will buy you
10 Big Macs. Eat two now and you have eight for
later. If that makes sense. Yeah, it does. Absolutely.
If you're walking into, you know, someplace to
eat and someone, hey, can I get a buck? No, I
don't have a dollar. Stop lying. You have a dollar.
But why don't you offer a breakfast instead?
And you'll feel really good about yourself. You
also help someone else. And like you just said,
that might be that person's last time ever asking
for help because now you've inspired them to
get up and go. Because it happens. That's how
it happens. That's how it happens, my friend.
Exactly. And then going back to your example
with the football team. If you guys had just
gone down a different route and played as a team
and then come together and done something positive,
imagine. The effects that would have on the world.
So, yeah, it's kindness versus unkindness at
the end of the day. Yeah, definitely. And, you
know, now that we're back to the football team,
I want to point out on the days of our big events
when we feed the 1 ,200 people, 1 ,100 people,
somewhere around there, we meet at my house in
the morning starting at 5 a .m. cooking a whole
bunch of chopped hot dogs and scrambled eggs
and make about 1 ,100 breakfast burritos. But
one of the guys that volunteers to come to help
grill. The weenies and the eggs is a rival gang
member of ours. I have three guys that show up
to help cook. One of them is my homeboys, which
is, you know, I've grown up with them since elementary,
who was from my gang, who is now a successful
caterer. One guy is a truck driver who answered
the call when I said, hey, I need someone to
volunteer their time with a grill. He showed
up. And then my buddy Julio, who, you know, we've
known each other since elementary, but technically
he is a rival gang member. You know, he's an
army veteran now. But we talk and laugh about
old times. Hey, remember when we chased you this
way and remember when we did that. But we're
doing different things now. We're both – both
of us help in the community. People change. Hashtag
people change. And it's a beautiful thing to
see. It's a beautiful thing to see 80 people
show up at my house, people that only saw a video
on Instagram to where I was asking for volunteers
to come and help make 1 ,100 breakfast burritos.
And they come, they come in flux. An ex Cholo
did that, you know, an ex crack addict is organizing
all of this, you know, and, and people love,
I mean, there's good in everybody. They just
need to be inspired to, to release that goodness.
Absolutely. It just happens to be me, the ex
Cholo, the ex crack addict, the ex, you know,
con, you know, call me what you will. Just don't
call me late for dinner. But come and help us.
Come and help us, man. Sure, bring everybody.
We're having another event Saturday, March 28th
on Skid Row. We're going to be feeding the homeless
potluck style. So everybody that's coming out
truly wants to be there because they've all offered
to cook a meal. And so we're preparing to feed
anywhere between 200 and 300 people potluck style,
my friend. I'm not going to buy any of the food
this time. It's all being donated by people who
want to be there. And that's even more beautiful
that people are getting up to cook for 50 people.
And that's all going to add up to about 300 people
being served. But it's by people who want to
come on out. Amazing. All right. Well, then let
me get to this part, too. If people listening
now are inspired and want to donate, want to
help, want to show up on March 28th, how do they
find you on social media or on the Internet?
So our Instagram is mission underscore echo.
That's where they can find me on Instagram. You
can contact me through there. If you want to
make a donation, a financial money donation.
Our Venmo account is Mission Echo, and Echo is
all capitalized. The PayPal is the same thing,
Mission Echo, and it's all capitalized. Just
the Echo part is capitalized. Currently working
on a Zelle. Like I told you, I'm not very tech
savvy, my brother, and so it's taken so many
people to help me try to figure this damn thing
out to where the donations now get linked to
those accounts, and those accounts are now linked.
to the direct bank account for Mission Echo.
And it's taken me forever to try to figure this
out. You know, you saw, you freaked me out this
morning when you said, you know, you need headphones.
Like, oh my God, where do I plug them into? I'm
not a tech savvy guy, man. But, you know, so
many volunteers, so many people have reached
out. Hey, Mike, I can help you, you know, set
this up account, you know, set that account up
and link it and this and that. Our website is
being built as I speak. My uncle is a web designer
in San Francisco. So we do have a website. It's
missionecho .org. It's being designed as we speak.
But if people who are listening in the L .A.
area, Orange County Riverside, if you want to
get involved, I can give out my phone number
here, correct? Yeah, if you'd like. Okay, so
my phone number, praying callers are invited
to come on out too. My phone number is area code
three, two, three, five, five, seven, two, eight,
five, four. My name is Michael Lopez. And if
you'd like to come on out, please call me. Let
me know what your family can put together. That
way I don't have, you know, 20 families all bringing
spaghetti. You know, give me a call. Let me know
what you want to do. We're aiming to feed two
to 300 people. But if more food shows up, hey,
we'll feed a thousand if we can. You know, everybody's
got to eat. That's our that's our. Our mission
statement, everybody's got to eat. You know,
it's none of our business why they're homeless.
It's only food. You know, please help me. Please
help me feed the homeless. And if you make a
donation, I promise you your money is going to
Skid Row. You can see the pictures up on my Instagram.
We're currently working on a Facebook, a Mission
Echo Facebook. We have hats available for a $35
donation. People love our hats. It has our logo
on the front of the cap and then on the side
of the cap. It's got embroidered. It says everybody's
got to eat. That's our hashtag. And thank you,
everybody, who is going to be able to reach out
to us for March 28th. If not, our big event is
coming Saturday, June 20th. That's one of the
two big ones that we do throughout the year where
we feed close to 1 ,200 people. And if I get
so much, you know, if I get a whole lot more
support this time around and we feed fifteen
hundred, then it's fifteen hundred. You know,
but I want your donors or your followers to know
that if you send money, it's going exactly to
where I'm telling you it's going. You know, and
it's such an honor to be trusted with people's
money nowadays. You know, it's I wasn't that
guy back, you know, back 20 years ago. I wasn't
either. I'll tell you, I was a little thief myself
when I was in my late teens. I mean, from my
parents, not anyone else, but even so, same thing.
All right, so I want to go to some closing questions,
but one more element you reminded me. So you
mentioned the uncle helping design the webpage.
You had an uncle with Long Beach Fire as well.
Yeah, my uncle Harold, he lives in Long Beach.
He's a retired Long Beach Fire Department captain.
My favorite uncle, he's always been my friend.
Oh, I hope my web designer uncle didn't hear
that. I just realized, oops. But the uncle that's
helping me design the webpage, he's my age. So
I consider him more of a brother. I'm 20 days
older than he is. But my uncle Harold has always
been there for me through thick and thin, no
matter how bad I did. unconditionally, you know,
continue to love me and guide me. And now that
my mom is gone, she's been gone for 10 years.
He's like my last official link to my mom because
my grandma just passed away. We just celebrated
a year of her passing. And so my uncle Harold
in Long Beach want to say, I love you. I wonder
if he's listening. I'll turn him on to it. He
might already be listening. Who knows? He's retired
from the Long Beach fire department. Harold Bassler.
Brilliant. Yeah. Well, I mean, there's, there's
a lot of, a lot of good. Guests on here for retirees,
too. So hopefully if he isn't listening already,
there'll be some other episodes besides this
one that he'll be interested in. Sounds good.
Brilliant. All right. So first of the closing
questions, is there a book that you love to recommend?
It can be about what we've discussed today or
something completely different. I'm going to
be honest. I don't read much. I try to read now
that. As I'm speaking, you have me looking over
at my desk, and there's four books that are all
half red. There is a book that stands out. Let
me walk over to it. There is a book that stands
out, and it's – well, I don't know if it's appropriate
for this one, but it's called The Black Hand.
It's about the Mexican mafia. There's just something
about that book. I won't say any more about that
one, but it's – It truly exposes it. It's written
by Chris Blatchford, who was a Channel 11 reporter,
and it talks about Rene Enriquez, who at one
time was the top of the Mexican mafia, but why
he made the change. Another book that stands
out is called Always Running. It's by Luis Rodriguez,
who has a similar story to mine, and he's still
out helping people. So those are two books that
I would recommend that I like. One that's a story
a lot more wild and detailed than mine. And then
you have the one by Luis, Always Running, which
is a pretty good book. And I haven't heard either
of those two recommended, so thank you. That's
two new ones for me. I will put them on my list.
And I'll read the other half, then we can compare
notes. How about that? That sounds good. That
sounds good. I was recently given a book actually
by Father Greg Boyle. I don't know if you've
ever heard of Father Greg Boyle. I think I've
reached out to him. He's the one that – Yeah,
he's the founder of Homeboy Industries. Yes.
Yeah, he's someone I'd love to get on actually.
Yeah, so someone gave me a book, his first book
actually. I think it's called Tattoos on the
Heart, something like that. I haven't started
reading it yet, but it was given to me by a lady
who owns a Mexican restaurant here in Huntington
Park called El Ranchito. And their whole staff
as well saw me on the news. And I've been going
to that restaurant since I was a baby. I was
brought up in that restaurant. And so when I
walked in one day, it's like the whole staff
applauded me when I was walking in because they
didn't know what I was doing now. You know what
I mean? They were unaware of what I was doing
now. And so she was really happy. The owners
were really happy for me. So that was pretty
cool. Brilliant. Yeah, like I said, I've seen
some of the stuff that he did. And that seems
like another person that would be an interesting
interview. Definitely. If you can get a hold
of him, because I hear he's booked. There's a
waiting line to book Father Greg Boyle to talk
about homeboy industries. Yeah, yeah. We will
see. We will see. Okay, so then the next question.
Is there a movie that you love? My favorite movie
of all time, I have to say, is probably Last
of the Mohicans. There's just something about
that last scene where they battle on the edge
of the mountain. Yeah, Chimney Rock in North
Carolina. There you go. Dad comes to avenge his
son. There's just something about that scene,
about the music, the violins. Now I'm looking
at my DVD stack. I have that movie in my DVD
stack. I guess probably my second best would
be a tie between Apocalypto and Gladiator. And
then Tombstone is right there. I'm your huckleberry.
And then is there a documentary? A documentary,
no, nothing at the top of my head. Although I
did mention to my wife last night, 13th, which
was, you know, you recommended that one to me
yesterday. And I've had so many people tell me
about that. Like I told you, my Uber riders,
I've had several Uber riders because I do part
-time Uber. They've recommended that documentary.
I just, you know, I haven't made the time to,
you know, to sit down. If I'm watching TV, it's
usually the news because I'm busy all the time.
I volunteer at the Long Beach Shortstop Program.
It's a diversion program for juveniles. Plus,
I public speak. Plus, I have my regular job.
Plus, I Uber. Plus, I DJ on the weekends. And
so I'm a very busy guy. I don't have too much
time for television, but I'm going to try to
find the time to watch 13th, and then I'll let
you know what I thought about it. Yeah, I would
say, I mean, it's definitely 90 minutes well
spent. There's a lot of crap out there, but I
think that's very, very well done. And it just
plants some seeds in your mind, plants some questions.
Like I said, can we do this better? With some
of these systems founded on less than altruistic
principles, and I think the answer is going to
be no on some of those. All right. Then next
question. Is there a guest or is there a person
that you recommend to come on this podcast as
a guest to speak to the first responders, military
and every other human being on planet Earth?
A guest that I would. Sure, I got one for you.
There it is. My friend, Tony Argot, who is a
retired L .A. County Sheriff's Department captain.
who I met Tony Argott. He was the program director
at Westwood College when I was working on my
bachelor's degree. And him and I, we didn't hit
it off very well when we first met because I
didn't like the way he interrupted class. And
he jokes about that now, and it's really funny.
But we have become friends, and I mean true friends.
Ten years ago when I paroled from prison for
my last time, I needed help. gathering a deposit
to be able to rent a place for my wife and my
kids so I can get up on my feet. My family wasn't
quite on board with me yet 10 years ago. And
my friend Tony Argot, retired Sheriff's Department
captain, loaned me the money to rent the house
that I currently still rent in the city of Bell.
And we have lunch once every two months or so.
We maintain contact by phone. He's always checking
up on me. He was an instructor at East LA College.
So I used to go guest speak at his classes. And
I'm sure he'll have some wild stories to tell
you. And I'm sure he'll use me as an example
of people can change if they put their mind to
it. I will talk to him probably sometime this
week because we're due for lunch. I will mention
you. And if I can, I'll pass on his information
if he's interested. Please. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, I mean, to have, obviously, law enforcement
background. Anyway, I've had a lot of people
from police and sheriff's departments on here.
But, yeah, the crossover of seeing people that
have, you know, you were cuffing one day and
then you're helping feed the homeless the next.
Yeah, there you go. You're loading them with
money. Yeah, exactly. And I paid them back. I
paid them back. I mean, it's an honor to call
him friend, you know, because first of all, who
he is and what he used to do. And, you know,
the fact that I was able to earn favor, you know,
from someone like that. And like I'm saying,
he does on his own maintenance checkups on me.
You know, he'll call, hey, what's up, local?
How you doing, man? What's going on? You know,
what's the update? You know, he's enjoying his
first grandbaby. So he's pretty wrapped up. But
yeah, I would definitely recommend Tony Argonne.
Excellent. Well, thank you. All right. So then
the last question before I let you go, what do
you do to decompress when you're not doing all
these jobs and all these altruistic projects?
You know, that's a good question. And that's
an easy one. I don't decompress as often as I
need to. It's caused some conditions with me.
If I did decompress, it would just be sitting
down listening to music. I listen to different
types of music, but I have to learn the fact
that I need to decompress sometimes because I'm
going, going, going, going, going all the time.
My mind doesn't stop. I'm either in my head planning
something for the homeless or planning the next
fundraiser or flashing back on prison. or flashing
back on gang violence, or flashing back on a
day in school, my mind doesn't stop. And so I'm
trying to figure out how to balance that. Because
I can see sometimes it's just overwhelming to
me. I don't know how to decompress. There you
go. That's my perfect answer. And I need to learn
how. I need to learn how. Yeah. Yeah. And I think
that's, you know. a struggle for a lot of people.
One of my real buy -ins was an app you can get
on your phone called Headspace. Headspace. It's
literally a 10 -minute meditation. And there's
a guy talking. So you're not sitting cross -legged
humming. You can just sit on a chair or lie on
the bed. And I think you can try it, I believe,
for 10 days for free as well. But that was it.
I'm going to check that out. Yeah. I'm at a point.
I mean, I'm going to be 52. And I know it's not
old. Probably, you know, To a lot of your listeners
saying, oh, you're a youngster, you know, but
I'm getting to that age to where I need to learn
how to create my peace of mind. Because I feel
that if I'm not doing something for somebody,
I'm not doing anything at all. But at the same
time, I need to learn that I do need some me
time, you know, some family time. And I'm learning,
you know, last weekend I was in Vegas with my
three -year -old granddaughter and I loved it.
And I'm thinking, wow, that would be nice to
be able to get more time like that. How do I
do it? How do I, you know, make time for me to
decompress? And so I need to learn how. And I
thank you for bringing that up to me. No problem.
Yeah, it definitely helped me. And what I found
as well is fascinating is that there are a lot
of us when, you know, when they're in a mental.
or challenges or stress, whatever you want to
call it, that void, again, that mental health
void, we fill with work. And I know many, many
firefighters that do that. They take up extra
shifts. I think it's so they don't have to be
present and address the things that are going
on. So I think it's very healthy to do that,
to take time for yourself. And I think it makes
you more efficient too. When your mind is clearer,
you're able to get more done in less time. So
you don't need as many hours. So you can be present
with your grandchildren, for example. Yeah. Yeah.
Looking forward to that. Brilliant. All right.
So I was about to let you go. There's one more
thing that I forgot that we need to talk about.
Gastric bypass. I have plenty of time. Oh, my
gastric bypass. So actually what I had was a
gastric sleeve. Right. My doctor recommended
the gastric bypass, but I asked him, you know,
how much more beneficial would that be to me?
Not much more beneficial, but the risk factors
as far as, you know, healing. were a little more
serious. So I chose the gastric sleeve. I've
had the gastric sleeve, I think it's been about
two years. And I'm down about 115 pounds. I still
have probably another 100 to go. But I love it.
I know where we're going with this. I told you
yesterday, I'm probably the only Mexican in LA
that doesn't eat tortillas. That was it. That's,
I remember it. And you got a big kick out of
that yesterday. Yeah. I don't, you know, I don't
eat tortillas. I can, if I want to, the doctor
says, but I've learned how not to, you know?
And so I have one occasionally, you know, my
wife will look at me like, damn, that's it. Just
one. Yeah. I'm cool with just one. I don't need
five or six anymore, you know? But I've lost
a lot of weight. I feel a whole lot better. I
have more energy to play with my 10 year old
son. You know, I had to do it. I had a heart
attack about five years ago. And by the grace
of God, I'm here. You know, I had a friend pass
away probably five or six days ago, 41 years
old, his first heart attack. And every time I
have a friend that, you know, passes away from
a heart attack, I like, Lord, you know, why?
Why did you save me? You know why? I mean, I
was a drug addict. I was the criminal. But you
saved me, you know. Sometimes it answers myself.
Well, because he still needs me. Who would be
feeding the people on Skid Row if I was gone,
you know? But yeah, this gastric sleeve surgery,
it was life changing. I was afraid. I was afraid
to do it because, you know, Kaiser sends you
to classes first. They educate you first. And
one of the very first things that the doctor
on the very first night of class said was that
1 % of the people don't get up from the table.
I said, oh, that was me right there. That's been
the story of my life. I got up and walked out
of class and I never went back. A year later,
I had a heart attack. Uh -oh, I better try to
have that surgery. I'm either going to die on
the table or die of a heart attack. So I didn't
die on the table and here I am. Yeah. And it's
so good to hear. The reason I wanted to ask you
about that is obviously with this project, I
talk a lot about exercise and nutrition and all
these things. But my wife's best friend, she
had – I think she did she have a bypass? She
might have had some sort of sleeve as well. And,
you know, she lost the weight and is loving it.
And I think through that process, she found herself
eating better because she didn't want to, you
know, stick a whole bag of tortilla chips in
her mouth anymore. You know, whatever that she
was eating before. Well, don't get it. Don't
get us wrong. We do want to stick a whole bag
of tortilla chips. We just can't. We just can't,
man. You know. And another thing that I found
about it is that, like I told you yesterday,
my whole life is on Instagram. And so I was shocked
at the amount of people who saw me have the surgery,
who reached out with questions, who were considering
it, who were afraid of it, who ended up having
surgery because I had mine and shared my story.
And so there was another way that God used me.
You know, so many people. Well, I'm going to
say I can name at least five or six people. I
keep saying so many, but. At least five or six
people did have a surgery because I posted my
entire journey on my Instagram. Yeah, that's
amazing. And that's why I wanted to talk about
this because it's not the go -to. And actually,
one of my friends I went to fire school with
had, I think it was bypassed specifically, and
he ended up getting necrotic and passed away
at a very, very young age. So, of course, there's
that risk. But, you know, I know a lot of people
that have done very well on it. So, it's something
that also needs to be... talked about especially
like you said when you get people that are getting
dangerously overweight you know that that that
might be the the the first step to then being
able to exercise more eat better you know so
if it's if it's a bridge to improving other elements
of your life then then why not so it's so good
that you found you know great results from it
yeah definitely and i'm so you know thankful
to kaiser because i know other you know medical
programs that They will just schedule you for
your surgery, but Kaiser educated you first.
They wanted you to attend these classes. You
can't have the surgery without going to these
classes first. They want you to understand it's
a life -changing, it's not just a cure, it's
a life -changing journey. I know so many people
in our culture, the Mexican culture, Chicano
culture, we want to get things cheap. I know
a lot of people that run to Mexico just to have
a, you know, this gastric sleeve surgery who
pay 25 % of the cost of what it costs here. But,
you know, now you're back in the United States
sick because you didn't get educated on, you
know, how to do it, how to treat it, you know,
and stuff like that. I know one person who didn't
get up from the table because she ran to Mexico
to go have a surgery, you know. And so I'm thankful
to Kaiser in many, many, many ways to making
sure that we were educated before we had. uh
surgery brilliant well that's great to hear and
you know kudos to kaiser for doing that because
i mean again common sense that seems like a pretty
invasive procedure that you should be well versed
in before you make a decision definitely definitely
all right well mike i just want to say thank
you so much it's been you know a great episode
and you know i tell this to people a lot to have
the courage to tell your story especially you
know if it's a story where um you know You were
down a dark path before and you were doing things
that, you know, you weren't proud of when you
look back. But I mean, again, like I said, I
stole when I was young. You know, there's things
that I could have been arrested for. I think
a lot of us are, if we're honest and look back,
you know, none of us are perfect. I haven't met
a perfect person yet. But to tell, to be down
that path and then be where you are today. um
i think is is what we need to hear you know i
think we're sold the facade on tv on instagram
that everyone else is is just fine and you know
they they don't struggle with any addiction don't
struggle with breaking the law um but the reality
is that you know this is a human story and and
to to do what you're doing now is is inspirational
so thank you so much for taking the time to come
on the podcast No problem. Anytime. And I thank
you again for allowing me to get my story out
there that people can change. And one thing I'd
like to mention, you kind of touched on it a
few seconds ago. I came across 10 Years Clean
on October 1st, 2019. I didn't do it with NA
or with AA or with CA. I did. I just ran out
of gas. Now, I'm not saying that that's for everybody.
If you need NA, please use NA or AA or CA or
any of those organizations that help you stay
clean. I truly ran out of gas, my brother. And
that's how I came across my 10 years clean. Now,
don't get me wrong. Every time that I accomplish
something, I reach a new goal. I have that angel
or that angel of death on one shoulder saying,
hey, man, you got 10 years clean. Let's go have
a hit. Then the angel on the other side says,
no way, man, you're going to lose everything
you have. So I battle cravings, even though it's
been 10 years. I still battle cravings today,
but I no longer entertain them. And within seconds,
they're gone. And so every time, like I'm saying,
I accomplish something new in life, I reach a
short -term goal, the first thing that attacks
me is let's go celebrate. Let's go get a $10
hit. Let's go get a $5 hit. You can handle it
now. And no way. No, no, no way. So I don't want
everyone to think that, oh, he's done. He's fixed.
He's good to go. No, sir. I battle it. When we're
out on Skid Row and I smell those crack pipes
burning and that crack smoke is in the air and
I'm seeing these people push their pipes and
seeing the drug dealers drop off all this dope,
I get that euphoric feeling. But I'm no longer
entertaining those thoughts because I've worked
way too hard to be where I'm at today. And on
top of that, I have a 10 -year -old little man
here at my house who carries my name. who expects
to see me come home from work every night. And
so I cannot fail that little man. I can't. I
do have a 13 -year -old daughter. I love her
to death. But it's my job to teach this little
man how to be a little man. And I cannot put
my two kids through what I put my two oldest
daughters through. I couldn't do it again.