Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As
always, my name is James Geering, and this week
it is my absolute honor to welcome back onto
the show veteran lineman and the man behind the
Powerline podcast, Ryan Lucas. In the second
conversation, we discuss a host of topics from
his unique perspective on the pandemic, the selfless
courage of our linemen during storms and the
most recent ice storm, the recruitment crises
in the trades. reinvesting in domestic industry,
the impact of AI servers on our grids, and so
much more. Now, before we get to this incredible
conversation, as I say every week, please just
take a moment. Go to whichever app you listen
to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback,
and leave a rating. Every single five -star rating
truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making
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I ask in return is that you help share these
incredible men and women's stories so I can get
them to every single person on planet Earth who
needs to hear them. So with that being said,
I welcome back onto the show, Ryan Lucas. Enjoy.
Well, Ryan, I want to say welcome back. You and
I have gone back and forth for years and years
and years. I can actually remember when we had
our first conversation and we discussed the podcast
because I was driving in a rainstorm in Southern
California and you kind of kept me company while
I was going up PCH. But when you came on the
show was episode 268, which was January 12th,
2020. So the world was a little different when
we first sat down. So with all that being said,
before we even dive into that, I want to welcome
you back onto the Behind the Shield podcast.
James, it's honestly a pleasure. Like I told
you on the first time you had me on, you're honestly
one of the reasons I started my own podcast.
You've been a leader in podcasting. You've done
it for years and just cranked episodes out. You've
been an inspiration. So yeah, I'm honored to
be back, dude, for sure. Yeah. Well, thank you
so much for all of that. Let's start as the icebreaker,
even though I want to get to the winter storm
and breaking ice in a little bit. Let's start
with what the 2020 moving on looked like for
you. The reason I think it's so important to
keep revisiting that time is, I don't know if
it was the same in Canada, but certainly here
in the US and the UK, once we emerged from it.
There was a refusal to have any discussion as
to what went right, what went wrong, what we
do differently, how can we make our nation healthier,
et cetera, et cetera. So all we have now is conversations
retroactively so that we can at least pull some
lessons from it. So what was your experience
as it started sweeping through Canada? And then
let's talk about any takeaways that you have.
I love this. I got a really unique perspective
on it and without diving into too much of the
politics of it. So my perspective was I took
a training job. So I took a job as the lead instructor
for a power line school. Cause I'm a, I'm a tradesman.
I'm a journeyman lineman. So I took an instructing
job. in Texas at a training facility, advanced
electrical training facility in Texas. So I was
traveling during the entire pandemic from Vancouver,
British Columbia, Canada to Texas. it was this
like really first off like eerie unusual experience
when you roll up to a border crossing that's
usually you know two hour three hour wait to
get across and you're the only car it felt really
like almost like third world -ish like you roll
it up to this border and you're the only one
there and there's only one crossing and you know
all the all of the things people are fully bubble
suited up coming to you you know what are you
doing here And I would present my paperwork and
it was like, okay, sir, see ya. Thanks for doing
what you do. Carry on. And I would use the land
border crossing because traveling by air across
the border was really difficult, was more difficult
than the land border crossing for me. So I'd
use a land border crossing. Then I would fly
out of Seattle to Texas. So as you guys all know,
Texas, you know, treated the pandemic one way
and Vancouver, BC or BC or Canada. treated it
completely different um it was like you know
bubble suits in canada and texas i have this
funny story so i was at a steakhouse before returning
to canada i was at a steakhouse in this little
town in texas and this you know typical tall
tall guy all tucked in squared away cowboy hat
uh you know a pistol on his hip in the steakhouse
having a steak nobody's wearing masks nobody's
like nobody's six feet apart nobody's any of
that like it was normal life and you know he'd
stand up to pay for his dinner and he literally
pulls out a wad of cash from his pocket licks
his fingers peels the cash lays it on the table
and walks out so i got this happening the very
next day i'm flying back to canada and it's full
bubble suits, full like interrogations, it's
COVID testing, it's shots, it's all this stuff,
right? And just that dichotomy of experiencing
that. So then I'd go home to my family members,
you know, visit them over Christmas or anything
like that. I come from a very small town in central
BC, Canada. It's a blue collar forestry mining
town. A lot of people in that town don't really
get out too much. If they do, it's like a Mexico
vacation every year. They don't really have a
big worldview of things. And here I am crossing
borders, dealing with airports, thousands of
people every month, two airports, three airports,
four airports a month. That's my experience.
I'm going home. I'm trying to tell them, don't
be so fearful you know have a little bit of an
open mind so like that's that's my point of view
on it and that's my perspective on it that's
what i've tried to like implement to people is
like when things like this happen expand your
mind a little bit get off social media or you
know be on social media but just have an open
mind at least and go talk to real humans with
different experiences like in real time experiences
because a lot of my family members just you know
treated it the whole like this is what I'm seeing
on Facebook you everyone needs to be fearful
you know and I'm like it's not like that I I
never got COVID and I literally was traveling
like this every month you know it is what it
is maybe I didn't for some reason but like it
wasn't as big bad and scary for a lot of people
and I understand I'm respectful of we did lose
people because of it there's probably other reasons
associated with that but again just That whole
open -mindedness, I think, is super important.
Even look at our times right now. Super important.
Keep an open mind. Check different perspectives.
And that's kind of what I go out of the pandemic
with. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've said this on here
many, many times. There was one truth during
the whole pandemic. The healthier the population,
the higher chance there is of them surviving
being exposed to the virus. And so when you look
at what was told to people on that fearful side,
as you said, it was stay at home. Don't see your
family and friends. You know, get food delivered.
You know, get alcohol delivered. Binge watch
Tiger King. And then obviously when you're staying
at home, you're not getting any exposure to nature.
You know, you're not getting sun on your skin.
You're not getting exercise. And I've said this
many times, if you could actually write down
how would you make people even more vulnerable
to a virus, that's exactly it. Conversely, what
should have been said, whether you, and I've
always put it this way, if you believe in vaccines,
and you know, this one was obviously up in the
air as far as efficacy. then you want to have
the healthiest immune system you can to have
a healthy response to that vaccine to then build
the immunity. If you don't believe in vaccines,
you want to have the healthiest body you can
so you have a healthy immune response to the
virus. So the common denominator is the healthy
body. And we know, and I was hailed as a heretic
early on, we know that the comorbidities were
a big, big, massive reason why people died from...
COVID. And yes, there's anomalies of seemingly
fit people, but I know a lot of seemingly fit
people that have heart attacks out of the blue,
that have aneurysms out of the blue. It happens
and it's tragic, but you don't negate the wisdom
of the masses from these unusual medical cases.
There was a definite understanding that if you
get outside and you spend time with your loved
ones, And again, you don't have to be licking
each other's faces, but you're moving, you're
getting vitamin D, all these things that we know,
you're going to have a much healthier outcome.
And then more importantly, as you emerge from
something like this, the number one priority
should be the health of your nation ready for
the next time, whatever we name the next virus,
Steve the Badger Master or whatever the fuck
we're going to call the next one that's going
to freak everyone out. The healthy population
is going to do well. And look at Norway, look
at Sweden, look at Portugal, look at these places
that really, you know, like you were saying,
took it very seriously at the beginning, started
to open it up like we did in Florida. But Scandinavia
has a very healthy population. They were demonized
by the rest of the world and they had some of
the lowest deaths of anywhere per capita. So
these conversations are important because we
have to pull the common sense out. of the political
trench warfare that was going on so that we,
the planet, can learn from it and be ready for
the next time. This is something I've put a lot
of effort into in the last year and a half, I
say. Just family scenarios, the stress of the
pandemic, all of that. I gained weight. I started
to get unhealthy. And I took a look at myself
and I was like, this can't. go on and it it sounds
like it it needs a drastic like change like but
it's not that drastic getting healthy isn't if
you just take it one day at a time one bite at
a time implement one thing at a time you can
turn around a massive amount in a year in six
months that's what i did like i 50 pounds in
one year gone um just like implementing simple
things james like people always want that that
crazy thing that's just gonna do it that magic
thing right there's a lot of magic things kind
of like coming out now shots and things like
that but like if you just break it down to simple
things stop eating like an get outside get some
vitamin d like go for a walk you don't have to
start running freaking marathons like everybody's
doing right now like it's great to have all of
those people online on social media being that
inspiration being that motivation doing 15 marathons
a month but like that the average everyday normal
person does not need to do that in order to make
like huge gains in your life huge gains in your
life A few things I've done that are, they're
mine, they're what's worked for me, but they're
super simple. Tim Ferriss just talked about it
on a podcast with the, on the Sean Ryan show.
He called it, he called it morning pages. So
just taking, Tim's always lived. he's had fears
and anxieties and things like that. He's been
pretty open about talking about them online.
Right. So he's, this has been huge for him. And
I've just been naturally doing this because I
just heard this pod, but naturally doing this
is like writing every morning, just getting what's
in your head down on paper, stream of thought,
get out your fears, get out your anxieties, get
like, get all these things just out of your head
on paper. It's made a massive difference in my
mental health, how I attack the day, my productivity
in the day, those sorts of things. That's helped.
Walking has been an anchor for me. If I need
to get over anything, if I need to organize my
head, organize my thoughts, just getting out
for one hour, it's like 8 ,000 steps, 8 ,000
to 10 ,000 steps in an hour. it's perfect you're
outside in nature all of those benefits it's
simple things plus you're losing weight you're
working on your cardio like all of these things
like it's not complicated stuff you don't have
to don't over complicate it it's it's simple
it really is i had a conversation the other day
and it was interesting because we were talking
about firefighter recruitment i think it was
with one of the british firefighters i had on
the show And with the GLP -1 shots that you're
referring to, it's funny how I posed some groups
were to shots and all of a sudden they'll stick
it anywhere in the body now. It'll help them
lose weight. But what is an interesting conversation,
and I'm sure it's the same in your profession.
And I think they have an application. My wife
lost her best friend. I lost one of my fire academy
friends to gastric bypass, complications from.
Neither of them, I would argue, were actually
really dangerously obese. They were obese, but
they were young enough, I think, to really be
able to address it in different ways. And I think
both of them, the GLP ones, actually would have
been a great tool alongside trying to change
dietary habits and exercise habits. But we're
seeing that as the easy button now. What is interesting
to me is say you have a deconditioned young man
who was overweight and now wants to go and become
an alignment or a firefighter and uses the pill.
There's no sweat equity in that. And I'm not
saying that you don't deserve to be thin unless
you fought for it kind of thing. But if you've
just used that. You haven't experienced suffering.
You haven't done the strength training. You haven't
worked on the cardio. So you may look like you're
fighting fit when you walk through the door,
but you don't have that background of, like you
said, the discomfort that it takes to actually,
you know, either for someone who's heavier, lose
the weight and be ready to be a firefighter,
or in my case, be a skinny beanpole and have
to put the work in to be strong enough to be
a firefighter. So what's your perception on that
with, you know, the weight loss without the exercise
behind it? as far as a very physical profession
like ours my point of view on it is it's it's
an and thing so it's this and that so if if you're
like morbidly obese i i have got nothing against
going and getting a glp -1 you know, prescription
from your doctor and, and getting on that treatment
plan. Because like, if it's going to take you
from morbidly obese down to like a healthy weight
and get you to the point where you can get outside
and walk or run or, you know, lift weights and
get you comfortable going into a gym now, because
you're not that uncomfortable with your body
and stuff like, so it's going to knock all of
that down and get you, get you out and get you
active. let's go i'm i'm all for i'm all for
it really i am do it like go after it um but
as far as like now joining a workforce like the
trades i think that that's where we have to really
look at the training programs within the trades
or you know first responders or something like
what's the reject rejection criteria look like
how do we recognize those people and identify
you know maybe some of them need help like they
actually want to do it and they just need guidance
and help and training and you know proper programs
to get them to that point but we have to be able
to identify that and that has that that's on
us you know we can't just like let them squeak
in and especially in line work you just you won't
be able to like you'll be very quickly identified
as as someone that can't take it and it's kind
of like the trades and especially line work there's
like a there can be a natural selection process
like just a qualifying like almost a qualifying
stage like not unlike the military or first responders
I'm sure it's you know it's not hazing but it's
like we're like the vets are going to let you
know that you're not up to snuff pretty quick
yeah i wrote a story of my first book um and
it was something that i witnessed um when i was
doing you did a test and then you did a physical
test and written test and a medical skills test
and then they shared your results with fire departments
all around the south of florida and so i met
this um kind of version of the combat challenge
like a firefighter physical test um And at the
beginning, these two guys, you know, were walking
around and bright orange bodybuilders, you know,
their skinny little vest was barely hanging on.
And to my naive, just fresh out of fire academy
eyes, I was like, well, these guys must be phenomenal
athletes, you know, because I mean, they're cockrolling
around like they own the farmyard. And which
is very bizarre because everyone else is nervous
and, you know. chomping at the bit to try and
get a job in a very competitive market it was
weird to kind of have that kind of you know um
physicality but i'll never forget the first one
went the bigger of the you know muscular tangerines
went first and uh i i'm not exaggerating he made
it up two flights of stairs and tapped out now
we're just doing this in gym stuff and i think
it was a helmet and and gloves that was it so
you're not even wearing bunker gear and a tank
Two flights of stairs and gas and then as if
scripted, you know, a few rotations later when
his friends turn, same exact place. And what
I realize is that looking like you can do the
job and being able to do the job are two very
different things. And I think this is an important
conversation. It's coming from compassion and
empathy. It's not judgmental. But if you are
on a weight loss journey with a GLP -1. which
we're witnessing is very effective, and you're
thinking about a trade, you know, first responder
profession, the military, understand that that
alone isn't going to cut it. And so just like
you said, it's a great adjunct to then, you know,
you're on ramp into strength and conditioning
training, you know, and, you know, suffering
because you're going to have to, you know, you
have to deal with some shit in these jobs. You
know, you've got to be able to, you know, be
comfortable being uncomfortable to sound cliche.
But I think this is a really good time to be
talking about that because if there's a potential
man or woman that's entering one of these professions
and you're on this journey, good for you. But
know that if you start doing the work as well,
not only is it going to amplify your weight loss,
but now you're going to start working towards
being ready when you do toe the line. But if
it's a fallacy of, well, now I'm the right weight
for this job. You know, kudos to everyone who's
lost the weight through just sheer hard work
and diet and, you know, discipline. They're going
to get it by the time they get to that right
weight because they've suffered immensely. But
because there is this shortcut now, and I agree
with you, it absolutely has an application. Now
is a great time to have that conversation of
like, hey, if you are using this and it's going
to work. Think about starting that strength conditioning
journey now as well so that when you hit that
target weight, you have done the conditioning
too, because otherwise you're going to find yourself
looking exactly like you said, looking like you
can do the job, failing that initial test miserably,
and then you have to go and do some soul searching.
So I think it's an exciting conversation to get
people thinking about that when they begin this
journey. The other thing I'd get, I'd pair off
of that as well. So there's the strength and
conditioning component to that, which 100 % agree
with you. Go work on that anyway. And I can talk
a little bit more about that and the reasons
for strength and conditioning for the trades.
But there's the mindset component behind it as
well. So that person that's gone and suffered
to, you know, eat right, be disciplined, lose
the weight through pure suffering. they've gained
a component of mindset that the others haven't
as well. And that mindset going into, especially
like I can speak directly to the power line industry,
when you've got to go into, for example, like
storms, hurricanes, everyone's familiar with
mass hurricanes. linemen are going into the cities
you know in the middle of the eye of the hurricane
sleeping in their trucks waiting for it to blow
everything down so that they can jump right into
fixing it and while everyone else is leaving
the city you know leaving home leaving the country
leaving the state getting out and that's not
just like everyone that lives there but that's
everyone that lives there and works there and
has businesses so like these linemen are going
there and there's no food you know there's no
shelter there's like i said they're sleeping
in their trucks and they're working 16 18 20
hour days like literally sleeping on the job
to get four hours of sleep just to continue to
serve you know to continue to restore power which
means restoring some sort of normalcy to life
right there's a mindset component to that like
let's carry on and not only that the people that
that stay behind like the regular civilians that
stay behind a lot of the time not all the time
so don't get on me for this one but a lot of
the time they're not very understanding respectful
you know of what these men and women are going
through to restore that normalcy it's they can
get treated with a lot of disrespect you know
a lot of anger angst all of that stuff you know
for good reasons like their powers out their
life's been destroyed they've maybe lost their
home whatever the reasons are but that gets directed
on whoever's around and those people are first
responders and line alignment line crews right
um so you got to be able to deal with that too
right so there's the mindset component behind
this as well and if you just lose weight like
it just falls off of you because you took a glp
-1 and you go to get in a trade like line work
or military ems like you need to work on that
mindset component too not just the physical side
of it it's both absolutely you just made me think
about something as well one of the most beautiful
things about the pandemic apart from The environmental
impact in a positive way, which sadly was disregarded
after about six months. But, you know, watching,
you know, the sky clear up in L .A., watching
dolphins swim upstream in the Venice Canal and
some of the incredible things that we saw. But
the other thing was appreciation for the people
we take for granted. So, you know, whether it's
the bin men, as we call them in England, the
people that take the garbage away, whether it's,
you know, the people that stock the shelves in
the stores and, you know, the checkout clerics.
Everyone that we just kind of, you know, don't
really give two thoughts about finally, you know,
got some appreciation, obviously first responders
and doctors and nurses and everyone else that
keeps the hospital running as well. But kind
of like you hear this, I miss 9 -12 conversation
where there was that gratitude and there was
that coming together and fuck me, do we need
that more now than ever? But, you know, fast
forward a few years and now. dying firefighters
are you know fighting the city of new york to
try and get coverage for their families after
they die and all of a sudden it's a different
conversation what did you see about as far as
the gratitude for lineman during covid um and
then you know has that dropped off as well this
gratitude for lineman so this this awareness
for lineman has been something that people in
the line community have been pulling for awareness
of us and what we do for years and decades. It's
only like these hurricanes recently or these
mass storm events that bring awareness to line
workers. And a lot of the times, so during these
events, when you get like these mass outages,
you get line workers from all over the world,
all over the country, congregate to one area.
to restore power a lot of them do it you know
not every lineman does it for service to other
people a lot of them do it because it is really
good money as well right and you get these storm
chasers so unfortunately and fortunately those
are the events that raise the most awareness
for what we do like i said you get the good the
bad the ugly line work on a day -to -day basis
is what I'm into promoting, I'm into raising
awareness of, is our grid in the United States
needs to at least double in the next five years.
And most people don't quite understand what that
actually means. That means a huge amount of direct
craft, skilled craft labor workers, linemen.
electricians it's every trade craft skilled labor
um it takes that plus it takes just as much or
or more support services to keep those men and
women building and if this grid needs to at least
double at least at minimum double in five years
i don't think people can really grasp what that
looks like and and what how big the workforce
needs to grow in order to do that and everyone
gets so um so concerned about ai and ai taking
jobs and this and that blah blah blah ai is coming
for a lot of jobs but elon even said it on a
recent episode i think with with rogue and he
said that jobs that move where it's people moving
physical mass like people are picking things
up and moving them or doing it with their hands
like those are the last jobs to ever be taken
by robots and ai i don't know if people have
seen robots they've come they've advanced a lot
in a lot of ways but they are not putting on
a set of hooks and climbing a power pole and
doing what we do up there they're not they're
just i've seen i've seen these things they're
not they're not there yet not saying they won't
get there but for this for your lifetime if you're
just starting out or if you're looking about
thinking about getting into a trade um it trades
are trades are it man so that's like i'm into
raising awareness about that in a good way in
a positive way because it is a great lifestyle
the trades are awesome line work is such a great
career for people um that that's what i'm into
promoting it you know fed two generations of
my family i have an 18 19 year old son now and
it turns 19 tomorrow he just told me recently
that he wants to be a lineman i didn't push it
nothing so that's going to be three generations
in the trade now and there's something special
to that but we need more of it like drastically
need more of it so yeah into raising awareness
for it speaking of ai one of the things that
comes up recently and again i'm so uneducated
on this area but If I'm describing this correctly,
the servers that AI ultimately lives in are such
an insane power draw and the heat that they create
that it's at a detriment to, I guess, power supplies
and even the cooling of the planet, I would imagine.
So what have you heard in your industry as far
as the potentially negative effects of these
servers that are generating AI in the first place?
I haven't got too much experience on the negative
effects of the servers, but I can speak to the
demand again for craft skilled labor to build
these things. Like these data centers are huge
again, like data centers are so kept under the
radar because of their proprietary, you know,
like nobody, nobody from Facebook or Google or
whoever entity. wants you to know what's happening
inside of a data center so they're not marketed
they're not like talked about you don't get to
really see them you just hear this these two
words data center i suggest you go try to find
one where you can actually see the size and scale
of these things and then just yeah go ask ai
yourself to explain a data center to you and
like the demands on the grid, the demands on
the workforce. And you'll be blown away by the
numbers and just your statistics that it gives
you around what the requirements are for that.
It's massive. And we just like, we literally
don't have the people to do that work. So forget
AI taking the jobs, like the jobs are there.
They're ready for the taking. Anybody can just
step into them. I don't know if I'm old fashioned,
but if it's going to draw that much power. And,
you know, yeah, it's great that you can get a
photograph of yourself to dance to, you know,
Mexican gangbanger video. But there's a part
of me that is like, well, when's too much, though?
Like, can't we just roll the clock back in some
areas? Do we need AI to do everything now? You
know, people say, oh, I just punch it in. It's
going to make a business. We're going to make
a million dollars a year. well a do you need
a million dollars a year and b once everyone
punches that thing then are you still going to
be making a million dollars i mean i'm no economist
but i think the answer is no so i don't know
like if this is becoming detrimental to you know
the environment and just the the basic requirement
for you know comfort that we had let's say when
we were kids which i thought was ample even then
i love the fact that television is clearer now
and some other things but you know realistically
how much do we actually need to be very comfortable
and you know when is when is too much too much
you know so that that's my only thing is now
we're hearing just how hungry these data centers
are for natural resources you know is there a
place to actually draw a line in this whole thing
I think you bring up a good point as well. That
got me thinking about something, just the atrophy
of the human skills. Like if you're going to
AI to just do everything now, how quickly are
you losing your abilities to do things like be
creative yourself? Like you're a writer. The
writing tools in these LMs are. Man, they're
getting incredible to where you can just give
them a prompt and it can spit you out the next
book. Right. But you didn't write that. Yes,
you gave it the idea and there was some creativity
around that, but you didn't go through the suffering
of writing that book. Cause I'm sure I've never
written a book, but from what I've heard from
people, it's like suffering. It's hard to do.
It's not easy. And you really got to put work
into it. So if you're just getting, you know,
AI to do things like that, how quickly are you
going to lose your skills? Not just lose your
skills. But what does that trickle down effect,
like you just said, what does that trickle down
effect look like in the next generation of humans
and the human generation after that? Do we lose
the ability to write altogether in the next two
generations? And how sad does that sound? So
like, again, yeah, be cautious. There's a lot
of people smarter than me putting caution to
using AI out there and really trying to educate
people on it. But from my own experience, I try
to use it as a tool, not as a crutch, but just
as a tool, as a help me organize or, you know,
prompt an idea, but then take actual physical
time myself and mental time myself to write about
that. I'm using the writing example again or
whatever your example is, but take time to do
it yourself, you know. that that's the best advice
i could give around that is like just don't let
your skills and your human creativity and your
human skills atrophy because ai can do it better
i'm totally paraphrasing but i saw not a meme
but a post um and it said some something to the
effect of a i'm told that ai will give me more
time for washing dishes and making beds or something
like that. He said, I want AI to wash dishes
and make my bed so I have more time to write
and paint. Something to that effect. And they're
absolutely right. Someone literally on the show
a while ago, Lee, told me, you know what, you
can plug in exactly like you said and AI can
help you write the book and you can tweak some
things. And I'm like, I can't think of anything
worse than what you just said to me. And based
on the emails we were talking before we hit record
that I get, from podcast companies that connect
potential guests with podcasts, if that's the
height of AI writing, then I have nothing to
worry about whatsoever because it is absolute
dog shit. But as you said, you know, using AI
for the kind of admin side of it. Yeah. And there's
an AI infused element to the promo videos that
I make. It searches like a 20 minute segment.
I give it and it pulls out, you know. 92nd month.
Great. Awesome. The editing that I use now is
AI helped. Fantastic. But from the creativity,
you know, when, what I get from the books is
like, dude, it was, it was like, I was right
back there on, on the road. And you could tell
it was written by someone who's there. Now there's
only a handful really of firefighter biographies
out there, full stop, or, you know, firefighter
writing, put it that way. So I think this is
it is use AI for the stuff that. We don't need
humans anymore. Humans don't even want to do
it. And I think that robotics, where we had human
beings awake throughout the night when they should
have been in bed with their families, sticking
labels on tin cans, absolutely. Robots all day
long. And then allow humans to then be more creative
and do exactly like you said, the things that
human beings need to do. And fire and EMS and
law enforcement, that's where you need to have
that compassion and empathy that you can't program
into. you know, a robot or AI. So yeah, I think
there's a very nuanced conversation. But I think
sometimes we focus on the wrong thing. You don't
want AI to be creative. You know, that creativity
and that learning, like you said, is important
for the development of the human being. That's
how we have innovation. But all the things that
are mundane that we all cringe doing, that's
where AI superpower is. Don't buy back your time.
you know to use a quote from dan martell don't
buy back your time just to spend it doing nothing
like that again is why it's so important to get
right physically get right mentally you know
all these things like what's what's your priorities
what's your intentions in life what's your goals
what do you want to do and if you're going to
use ai to buy back your time which you most certainly
should it's a great powerful tool but then yeah
go create the art go You know, spend time, spend
the morning drinking coffee with your wife and
your kids. You know, don't go use that time that
you've just bought back to go do something completely
stupid or useless or, you know, waste it. Just
live it. Absolutely. Well, one more kind of area
that I want to get to your transition. But as
we sit here now, a massive winter storm is sweeping
the US, you know, even down here in Florida.
I think this weekend we're going to be in the
20s at night, maybe even the high teens, which
for us is, you know, is pretty crazy. But, you
know, we talked about hurricanes. That's a very
horror Florida specific thing. And I think linemen
really do get a lot of appreciation in the summer
months here because I've been. I've been there
many times driving towards a storm on the way
to a fire station, and it's just me and then
a line of lineman trucks and first responder
vehicles heading into the storm. So we actually
get to see it firsthand. Texas had that crazy
ice storm a few years ago that absolutely destroyed
the state because they just weren't used to it.
And loss of power obviously was a big part of
that. So as we sit here now where so much of
the country is under ice conditions, Talk to
me about how your community is helping again
when everyone else is kind of hunkering down
in their homes. The heart of alignment is truly
like, it's a service -based profession. A lot
of us, and this is why it does tie in so nicely
with veterans and military and first responders,
is like, it's not the only reason that you...
join these professions is to serve but it's like
a the servant heart component of it is definitely
there like you don't typically become a lineman
you know just for the money or just for you know
there are those outliers but most of them have
a service like a sir a servant heart because
to be honest like i live in british columbia
canada i've jumped on airplanes before and within
24 hours boots on ground in places like connecticut
after hurricane sandy you know like you you jump
into the middle of a disaster yet the money is
great you know the work is is fairly exciting
but i don't have to do that they don't have to
do that they don't have to leave their homes
they don't have to leave their nice job at home
their family you know to go jump into the middle
of florida ice storm or the middle of Texas ice
storm. So they have a real servant heart to them
and that's what we want to do. We want to come
in and we want to do our part, do our profession,
our job to the best of our abilities to help
people regain some sort of normalcy after these
natural disasters. That's a big part of it. And
like I said, the money is really great. like
i'm not gonna sugarcoat that you do make really
good money but the conditions suck like i said
you're living in man camps um eating you know
powdered eggs and no like not very good bacon
like every day for 20 days in a row and i don't
know that stuff wears on you man like the long
days long hours you're away from your family
like all of those things stack up and So like
when it really comes down to it and then they
just want to help people, they want to put that
light switch back on for you. They want to turn
that oxygen tank back on to that old lady that
lives down at the end of that road, you know,
and really needs that back on or that hospital
or turn that feeder on and watch 128 ,000 homes
light up. You know, that's what drives most of
us is, is that there's a real thrill to that.
But there's also just like that, hey, I want
to do my part and do what I was trained to do
to help people. Talk to me just about how the
weather impacts the wires themselves. Because
I mean, obviously, if there's a massive snowstorm,
I can see how ice would accumulate. But it seems
like the wires go down a lot during these freeze
events. So what is the physics behind it, if
you like? Sure. I'd say a couple things. So when
it gets cold, heaters go on, right? So there's
like a load or when it gets, you know, when it
gets really hot in the reverse, everyone fires
up their air conditioner. So like there's a load
component to it. Load meaning like electrical
demand load. And that does a lot of things because
each of these components like the wire. uh not
to get too nerdy but like like the wire have
a certain resistance factor to them like it's
just like you know like the wires on the inside
of a toaster you flick a toaster on you see they're
all burning hot the same thing's essentially
happening if you increase the load you know it
increases the temperature of things like the
wire or just other components and where you get
temperature you get risk factor in um things
malfunctioning you know it really tests the outer
capabilities of these electrical components.
All right. So that you could find, you could
identify real quick what's, what was ready to
blow up and what wasn't by, you know, testing
it to its limits, right? So flicking on all your
air conditioners or all your heaters really tests
the limits. So that causes outages. Then you
have things like, obviously like wind is just
going to blow stuff down. Ice is going to increase
the weight load. So everything is designed, engineered.
to withstand some normal uh outside the limits
of what's normal for you know a conductor and
a pole a structure to take load bearing wise
but if you start you know even a little bit of
ice around a wire you know for a considerable
distance is a huge amount of weight that you
can see you see wires droop down and it can wreck
stuff pretty easy destroy you know bring down
wires bring down poles bring because everything's
made of wood too right wood steel but for the
most part all of these little we call them distribution
circuits that's the lower voltage that's distributed
around like cities and towns in your neighborhoods
are wood pole construction and wood cross arms
those beams you see at the top that hold the
hold the wires that's all just wood and a lot
of that wood too has been in the ground or been
up in the air for 60 years And so, yeah, it's,
it's at its limits already. So you add things
like the weight from ice or, you know, just wind
blowing things for an amount of time. It just
brings stuff down and it brings stuff down fast.
It's almost that domino effect too. Like once
one thing starts to fall, it pulls the next thing
down. So you get that, that effect as well. I
hadn't think about just the length of the wire
and a little bit of ice. I mean, that makes a
lot of sense too. And then, like you said, just
the load, if something's, you know, at near capacity
and you get, you know, you just get this massive
surge, I could see how that would factor in.
As far as the wood, is it still the lack of conductivity
that you keep using wood or is it also just inexpensive
still? It's inexpensive. It's not lack of conductivity.
Like they're actually wood pulp. Wood poles can
be very conductive because a lot of them get
treated with a treatment like an anti -rot treatment,
like copper naftanate is like the green ones
or creosote is another treatment, wood pole treatment.
So that stuff can make those poles very conductive.
uh the insulators so they'll be like porcelain
insulators or now they use a lot of poly or rubber
insulation and fiberglass inside that sort of
thing too and glass even uh to insulate the conductor
from the pole which would be the ground potential
um so they use a lot of of that sort of stuff
so the reason they still use wood is uh price
and it's just ease of use as well a lot of the
times We have to manipulate the positioning of
something like a cross arm or some sort of apparatus
that gets bolted to that wood. And it's a lot
easier to just take a nice Milwaukee drill and
drill a couple holes in wood, put your bolts
on and bolt that apparatus or equipment to the
pole versus drilling steel or fiberglass or something,
some other material. Just ease of use for people
is wood is just the most. easy thing to use and
resourceful it grows you know in forests it's
it's we can come by it very easily or more easily
in america north america some countries don't
have that privilege so they will use steel or
fiberglass or other materials but in north america
we use a lot of wood just because it is ease
of use you know cost that sort of thing I'm so
glad they asked that because I didn't realize
how conductive the treatments are. So from a
first responder profession perspective, that's
good for us to know like, hey, just because it's
wood, don't trust the fact that it may actually
be carrying a current. You see this a lot on
storm calls as well. You'll see homeowners that
you'll show up to their residence. There'll be
a wire come across their driveway. And they've
taken a two by four and they've notched the top
of it and they've stuck it under the wire and
they've propped up that wire across their driveway
so they can get underneath of it. You're literally
risking your life by doing that. If that two
by four is fresh from the store and it's dry
and it's not treated with anything, you've reduced
your risks. It's a little less resistant, but
there's still... There's still some abilities
to track some current there. And to give a lot
of people perspective, it takes 0 .05 milliamps
to stop the human heart. 0 .05 milliamps. It
takes, what, 15 amps to run your toaster. So
it doesn't take a lot of current to stop your
heart. you're really just like you're you're
playing with uh you're playing roulette by doing
things like that and yes for first responders
i know you guys get training on this but just
please like it's it's it's not worth trying to
uh it's not worth risking your life to to try
to deal with a down power line a down conductor
uh situation like that i know you guys get lots
of training on that and you're you know i'm preaching
to the choir here but just let a professional
like let us come in and just let you know that
it's safe put a set of grounding equipment on
that so that we've we've tested it you know switched
it off tested it and then grounded it to make
it safe and then you know you guys can go do
your thing yeah don't risk your life to do that
i know i think it was anaheim we had hot gloves
and the stick um but again not A huge amount
of training. When I went to Orange County, we
had a snake stick and no training on what to
do. I worked on an engine that we responded to
the airport. We never had any training on what
would happen if we actually had to go into a
plane. So that's a dangerous area when you have
the equipment, but you don't have a good level
of training to go with it. A lot of times, too,
is what people don't realize is like, OK, this
conductor or wire is down and it's. it's touching
the ground if that wire is still energized and
putting energy into the ground it disperses in
a radius and as that radius expands the voltage
drops across that radius right across the distance
so for for current again not to get too nerdy
but for current to flow so for current to flow
and stop your heart you need a difference in
potential difference in voltage you can create
that with your legs by just having your legs
two feet apart one foot on the ground in front
one foot behind you've created the difference
in potential because there's a voltage drop across
that that could be enough to stop your heart
so what i'm getting at is like you don't have
to actually be touching the wire or right beside
the wire you could be up to 10 feet away from
that and still have enough voltage drop across
your legs From having your feet apart or having
your hand touching something and your feet on
the ground, that creates that circuit. That connects
that series circuit and allows electricity to
flow or could allow electricity to flow. That's
what's so dangerous about it too. And you can't
see that stuff. But it's very much present. It
could be present and it could be there. You had
mentioned before we hit record about... veterans
and first responders transitioning out of their
professions and into line work. And I think this
is a great place to put this in. Talk to me about
what you're seeing as far as the same kind of
attributes in uniform being applicable into your
trade. 100%. I love this topic. I had firsthand
experience with it. I'm not a veteran myself,
but like I said, I was a lead instructor. for
a line school uh i've been a lineman power lineman
since 2000 um second generation like i said um
it was a passion of mine very passionate about
the about the career about the job i don't i
don't i'm not on the tools anymore per se like
yourself not not executing the the profession
every day but still very passionate about it
because um it's a very great career so uh I was
a lead instructor for this line school and I
helped get a lot of veterans into the line school
and then onto a career in the line trade. And
a lot of things I noticed was how incredibly,
how incredible it was for transitioning vets,
meaning the careers very much aligned. So when
you come out of the, when you come out of the
military service and you come into civilian life,
you don't always have a direction. You need a
new purpose. You're trying to find your career,
all this and that. And again, there's not enough
awareness of the power line industry, the trades,
but the power line industry as a potential option.
So I started coming up with a list of reasons
why they work so well together. So I'll just
read a couple of the things off the list. So
that mission first mindset, like I kind of touched
on and talked about. Linework is a service. We
restore power, protect the public, keep hospitals
water, communications running. That purpose under
pressure is very familiar in both sides, both
for linework and for ex -military. That comfort
operating in risk, but not just risk, but risk
with discipline. So like think training, right?
The best operators aren't just thrill seekers.
Yes, you know. A lot of us are thrill seekers,
just like operators, but they're procedure driven.
So vets and first responders already live in
checklist protocols and risk management, right?
That's the world they live in. Very similar to
us as well. Team -based execution. So crews function
like units. Roles are defined. Communication
is tight. And trust matters. You build that brotherhood,
sisterhood. We live, breathe, work with these
people every day in a tight, you know, sometimes
life and death scenarios. Really, when you're
dealing with electricity, electricity, heights,
traffic, heavy equipment. These are some of the
things we deal with when you're in those environments.
You know, you build that brotherhood, sisterhood
that you might not get from an accounting firm,
you know. Shift work, call outs, nights, long
storms, all those things we talked about. We
live in a chain of command as well. Chain of
command is very familiar with the military. Obviously,
we live in that sort of an environment as well.
Physical, mental toughness. We talked about that
sort of thing already as well. And then after
action, learning and culture debriefs. are 100
% part of what we do. We'll go through and execute
a job during the day, end of the day, do a debrief
on what went right, what went wrong, what can
we change, all of those sorts of things. So a
lot of familiarities and it's like a natural
job progression for vets to go into line work.
We were talking as well before we hit record
and this is really interesting because I saw
a piece i think it was in the wall street journal
and it was saying that gen z are leaning into
the trades more now than ever and when i took
a step back i was like let me think about this
because they're not leaning into police fire
and ems at the moment and if you think about
the information that they have available we just
talked about chat gbt for example and i tell
you now if you go to google and google is it
healthy to be a firefighter buckle up because
it's not going to be pretty So the information
is out there full stop. But then also what you
can do is go online and go, is it worth getting
a degree? And AI will spit out, well, hey, it's
going to probably cost you $60 ,000. You have
a piece of paper that doesn't guarantee you any
sort of job whatsoever. And so then you look
at the trades and the kids are like, well, what
about linemen? What about plumber, electrician?
And they go, well, yeah, we just go to community
college, you know, go to trade school. And then
a year, two, three years later, there'll be people
just, you know, waiting to gobble you up, basically,
because it's in high demand. So it makes perfect
sense to me that that's the case here. And I
think it's exciting because the things that are
turning people's heads in the fire service isn't
the job. It's the working environment. And I'm
sure you and I even spoke about this years ago.
You know, our work weeks are insane and it's
only got worse. So now the amount of vacancies
that remain unfilled means we're forcing whoever's
in the uniform as it is to work those shifts.
And no, you can't go home. You've got to work
yet another 24 hour shift. And these young people
are hearing about that, these insane work weeks,
the physical ill health, the mental ill health,
and it's turning them away from our profession.
You fix those elements like Pasco County just
did two days ago and they became 2472 fully staffed
fire department. They have a line out the door
for people wanting to work for them. So, you
know, that leaning into the trades that I hear
about, I think is exciting news for our first
responder professions. As long as we unfuck the
things that we have completely fucked up for
the last 10, 15, 20 years and acknowledge that
we have an issue and fix those problems. Talk
to me about this Gen Z generation and your population,
and then let's expand, as we were talking about
earlier, as far as the threat to the trades because
of organizations within Canada itself. I love
hearing that. I've just been recently hearing
that as well about Gen Z, and I love that for
them. I love that for us. that they're actually
like, like my son, prime example of that. This
is a kid that like myself, just, you know, the
school system, if you start way back then the
school system isn't for everyone. We all know
that just like, even like elementary school,
high school, like it's just not set up for people
that are, you know, like myself, like a little
bit ADD, a little bit dyslexic, you know, just
not really. Left to right learning, you know,
I came out of high school just like he did, wanting
to do something different, kind of understanding
that school, university, college wasn't really
going to work. for him like if it was it's going
to be a struggle like it was for me had i luckily
had my father that introduced me line work because
he was a lineman so he said why don't you give
this a try you might actually like it up to that
point it wasn't something i thought about but
he just kind of said you know i think you need
to give this a try as soon as i did it for myself
i was hooked i was like this is it this is i
get to be creative every day i get to show up
on new job sites every day every day is a new
project you know it's this i get to build this
brotherhood camaraderie with the people i work
around it's physical it's outdoors um there's
it's challenging there's purpose to it there's
service to it like all of these things if they
resonate with you and i think that that's what's
resonating with gen z like i'm so stoked to hear
that like they don't want to go to college and
university now be guaranteed nothing and pay
hundreds of thousands of dollars to do that Like
it doesn't, they're smarter, they're smarter.
And if they're not smarter, they're at least
going to these tools we built for them, like
AI and going, Hey, tell me realistically about
this thing. And it just gives them the facts.
And the facts are, you can't ignore the facts.
The facts are, it kind of sucks for a lot of
people, unless you're going to go be the top
professions, like doctors, lawyers, whatever.
it's you go into these you pay hundreds of thousands
of dollars and you're not guaranteed where i
could choose line work and i don't know a lineman
that does not make under 120 or doesn't make
under 120 grand a year like period that's that's
like those are the ones that aren't like hardly
working even you know just taking up shifts here
and there like part -time almost you can scale
that right up to six eight hundred thousand you
know that's obviously coming with a lot of overtime
a lot of other special training all that kind
of stuff but that exists that's a fact you can
you can ask chat gbt that question so if you're
going to go to chat and you're going to ask it
you know tell me all about the line profession
tell me what you're going to make get get detailed
with it don't just take its first answer because
it'll give you this base rate like you'll make
50 grand a year as a base rate and that's taking
into It's taking things into consideration that,
that real linemen don't even call line work,
like some small communications line jobs that
don't, you know, it's not actual power linemen.
So you need to really say like, what does an
electrical power lineman, you know, make, or
what's the range if you're going to start asking
those questions. But like, I love that for Gen
Z and I say, heck yeah, like bring it on. we
need more youth that are like go -getters and
into doing this. And, you know, another thing
I noticed about Gen Z too is like, they were
getting a bad rap for a while, but you know,
most of the Gen Z that I know and interact with
on a daily basis, they're doing things like quitting
alcohol because it doesn't benefit them at all.
And they're, you know, getting together. drinking
coffee and having a rave with a rave mixed with
coffee party, you know, like things like that,
like love that they're a little more health conscious
because there's podcasts and there's AI to teach
them about, you know, how to look after themselves,
how to build training programs. They're at the
gym now. Like, I think it's awesome. They're
a great fit for the trade and I welcome it. Also
another thing that. Like my generation couldn't
get away with challenging veteran linemen. So
linemen or tradesmen that have been in the trade
for a while, they'll tell you, go do this kid.
And you'll be like, that doesn't really seem
right. But you had no way to challenge them because
they're the ones that have done this for years
and they're telling you what to do. So just go
do it. Even though it didn't seem safe or it
didn't seem like it was a better way to do it.
but now gen z has these tools available to go
no like you're you're telling me a bunch of this
is not the most efficient way to do it and i
you know i'd like to challenge that or i'd like
to think about it differently i don't know you
got to work on your approach there if you're
gen z and the other way on how you approach those
combos but at least they're challenging them
now and they're going no this doesn't seem safe
this doesn't seem right you know which i think
is awesome I think the best thing that I'm hearing,
which I can relate to because this is me too,
which is probably why I ruffled a lot of feathers
when I was in certain departments, but is asking
the question, why? And just a perfect example,
I just had one of the former training chiefs
of Chicago Fire on the show. And he was saying,
we have this one technique where as you're progressing
into a fire, you're opening windows. And it was
supposedly to vent and lift the smoke and all
this stuff. And he goes. Do you know why it actually
is? And I'm not the fire guru, never put myself
that way. Love fighting fire, but I was perpetually
a student. So I'm like, no, but I'm excited to
hear the real reason. And he said, before we
even had SCBAs, air tanks, the old salts would
progress up a hallway. The next window, they'd
stick their head out, take a couple of breaths,
put it back in again. And then off they go. Nothing
to do with... you know, smoke conditions or anything
else. It was actually just to take a breath.
So the thing, this is what's exciting now, whether
it's AI, whether it's just simply, but I love
the three whys. You talked about Tim Ferriss.
He had a guy, I think it was an Argentinian businessman.
And he talked about the three whys that his dad
had told him. And so you say, you know, well,
why do we go down the hallway? You know, it's
because of this. Well, why? And then boom, if
you fall on the first why, you know. Then all
of a sudden, okay, well, we need to look at this
a little closer. And so many things, well, that's
the way we've always done it. Let's take the
firefighter work week. Well, why do we work 56
hours a week when everyone else works 40? The
answer is literally because we've always done
it. And it comes from when we used to just fight
fire 100 years ago. You know what I mean? And
you could. You'd get a great night's sleep. And
once in a blue moon, you'd actually go to a fire.
But why do we do it today? you by the second
why you're already done you're toast because
there's no sense behind it whatsoever so i love
that and i think that's what this younger generation
are doing and they're like well why why should
we drink alcohol if it's a poison and it makes
you know brings your bad side out and blah blah
blah and you can't drive with it you know why
don't we just you know do something else instead
so and they're romanticizing about our childhood
too and taking a lot of the good things from
that which i love And even I just saw recently
there's kind of a craze where they're trying
to remove filler words because you've got the
likes and the low keys and all this stuff. And
I think they're realizing like, hey, we're starting
to sound pretty dumb now. Maybe we should work
on our vocabulary and our grammar and our speech
and be able to really articulate what we're trying
to say. And because they grew up in this emoji.
you know, acronym world. So poor kids, no wonder.
So I'm loving this because they're actually going
back to the eighties and nineties and going,
all right, how did you guys do it? My son has
a record player. Perfect example. You know what
I mean? So, sorry, I've been kind of gone off
on a tangent, but to your point, I agree. There's
a demonizing of, you know, kids today air quotes,
but I think we need to take a step back and really
look at that generation because they're doing
a lot of things right. And they're learning from
our mistakes. I definitely run a highlighter
over that communication aspect that you just
talked about. I love hearing that they're diving
into communication. I see it on social too. I
see a lot of people talking about becoming better
communicators, educating on becoming better communicators.
uh warren buffett's got a great quote that i'm
probably paraphrasing but he's saying basically
if you want to increase the wages your wages
in any job that you go do just learn how to be
a better communicator there's 100 truth to that
that's something that i'd say and i like i said
again put run a highlighter over it for gen z
is learn how to become a better communicator
uh be dealing with that a lot with my own sons
um they just you know they won't even double
tap your text message just to let you know that
you know they received it and they heard it or
they saw it or they at least read it because
the read receipts off every you know like so
like three days later did you even get the text
oh yeah dad sorry i got it so i've had a lot
of conversations about them with you know with
them about just becoming a better communicator
over communicate let you know especially if you're
dealing with people like in the workplace um
they're both going through you know that transition
into career world and you're going through job
interviews or talking to people in the workforce
setting and one of my kids will you know he'll
send me screenshots of what he's going to send
out in a text message and i'll just give it a
little bit of a review which i think is awesome
now like he's checking in to see Hey, would this
be a good text to send? And I'm like, well, you
could change this. You could change that. Just
offer advice on communicating. So I love that
they are doing that as well. And yeah, just 100
% want to run a highlighter over that. Become
a better communicator and your whole life gets
easier. Absolutely. And I think this is the exciting
thing. This generation, as you said, they value
their physical health. They value their mental
health. They value their relationships, time
at home. And so for the fire service, if we,
which we're seeing now in Florida, invest in
our people, create healthy work weeks, fill all
the vacancies because now people want to work
for you. You are then going to, you know, the
rising tide lifts all ships. As a profession,
we're going to go back to the high demand that
you need in your trade, in my trade. There's
a certain percentage of the population that can
really do this job well, and we have to attract
them. you know and we have you know a thousand
people apply then you take you know the top 50
and that's how it should be it's no different
than a special forces a special operations group
really because we truly are dealing with life
and death but where we are now in police and
fire is is literally going into high schools
and begging children to come do this thing and
we'll train you and everything we'll give you
a hiring bonus and that is not how you do it
and it doesn't create a love of the job either
you know there's there's zero skin in the game
by that point so by fixing the things that we
have screwed up our you know my population maybe
my my generation because now at 51 we're talking
about the chiefs and the union presidents and
all these other people it's on us this is our
fault now our forefathers may have created this
but we're the ones that have to fix it but we
can turn it around and this gen z the right group
of this gen z are going to be even better than
we ever were because they're going in with the
mental health, with the physical health, with
the emotional health that we didn't have. We
went in blindly post 9 -11, just sign me up.
I want to go do that thing because I want to
serve. Now, these people understand what that
takes and they're preparing for it. Young people,
they ask me all the time, they reach out on social
or whatever, or just ask in person, what can
I do to... that would help set me apart to choose
me in a career like this. And I used to give
them advice, like do what you can, you know,
get first aid training, some chainsaw, some rigging
training, learn some basic electrical theory,
like all these things that were like, learn what
you can outside of, you know, getting into the
career. So you're kind of a little bit prepped
for it. I've been telling them a lot lately to,
yeah, all of that's good, but. learn communication
skills, learn leadership skills, those sorts
of things will set you immediately apart from
the pack. And so I'm glad you highlighted that
because like, yes, communication, leadership
is another one of those that if the sooner you
can learn about leadership in high school or
sooner, like learn how to lead in sports, learn
how to lead in your class, like take those opportunities
to practice. Things you learn about leadership
as you're younger, by the time you're ready to
hit the workforce, we are in such need of quality
leadership. And I'm not just talking about managing.
Managing and leaders is two different things.
I'm talking about leaders. Like you could throw
a room full of everybody that is exactly the
same job title and profession and somebody. ends
up coming out of that room a leader of that room
like that's what i'm talking about actual leadership
skills so important to learn um so i've actually
been building programs to help identify uh one
what kind of cohort or what cohorts of people
uh would work well in the trades and in a trade
like power line work for example so the same
could be applied to you know ems firefighters
first responders that sort of thing is who what's
the cohort a person look like what's that avatar
look like that would be good for this profession
and where do they where do they exist in groups
and then how can i get into those groups and
help mentor them with things like leadership
skills, communication skills, like forget even
telling them about line work, just prep them
to be that sort of person that would be good
for that job later, whether they realize it or
not, just you doing that. And that association
with, Hey, alignment is taking the time to train
this kid or teach this, this kid about, you know,
leadership skills, communication skills, these
sorts of like soft skills. It's just that, just
that understanding that association with that.
When they come out, they're naturally more than
likely going to go the direction of fire service,
line work, whatever, whatever that association
is. So we've been doing a lot of that lately.
We've been identifying, you know, like we said,
we talked about military, why they're so good.
Another community that is really good for trades
is that ranch rodeo community. So we do work
with high school rodeo students. We have a high
school rodeo team and we'll bring them to like
a little mini retreat where we. We talk a little
bit about the trades, but it's very surface level
about the trades, answer questions they have
about the trades, introduce and make awareness
of it. But we impart into them leadership skills,
communication skills, all of these sorts of things.
We really try to drive that into them so that
when they're ready to hit the career train, they
think about us if they're looking for a career
and they're aware that the trades exist. That's
kind of a way that we're trying to like make
it better. Well, this is the conversation we
have in the fire service too. And I always, always
illustrate the local mentorship program they
have here. My friend Chris Hickman started because
not only do you address a diversity issue, which,
you know, is a real thing, but how people have
responded to it in the past is usually, you know,
very poorly, which is, well, go get me. 20 gay
people go get me 12 black people whatever it
is and they just drag net a group and they're
like all right congratulations you're a firefighter
which you know is not well received by the people
that have you know fought to earn a spot where
a mentorship program is so effective is you absolutely
reach into underserved communities and you say
look we do training three times a week you just
need to show up close to where you live. We'll
give you the training. We'll give you the equipment.
There are scholarships to the fire academy. There
are fire departments looking to hire on the back
end. Now you challenge young people of underserved
areas to reach that bar. You give them all the
tools and then you have three groups. You have
a group that goes, you know what, thank you,
but I just realized I don't want to be a firefighter
now. I didn't realize it was hard and hot and
all that stuff. Okay, awesome. You learned something
totally valuable. You had the middle group that's
like, okay, you're interested, but you're not
there yet. You have work to do. Brilliant. Okay.
There's your homework. And then you have the
third group, which were the rock stars in that
community. They're going to go on and be phenomenal
firefighters, linemen, whatever it is. So I love
that model because you're actually addressing
the fact that yes, you know, there are areas
of the community that are underserved that are
not reflected in the fire department, but then
you're going in and not just scooping them all
up. you're training them and challenging them
to hit that bar. So when they do put that uniform
on, they're received as another brother or sister.
So I think mentorship is absolutely one of the
biggest tools we have in the trades to get back
to where we need to be. And that's what the trades
is all about. Like it's craft, skill, labor.
It's, I hate to use master, apprentice, master,
the word master, but like, That's what it was,
you know, in past times, there was the master
craftsman and the apprentice. And it was a mentor.
It's a mentorship. It's on the job training for
the most part. There's school, sure, to learn,
you know, technical aspects of electricity or,
you know, fire service or EMS or whatever. But
a lot of it's on the job. Like there's nothing
like coming up on an accident scene. and having
to problem solve and deal with real time real
world life and death scenario you know for you
guys for us there's nothing like you know jumping
into the middle of a hurricane that just struck
yesterday and everything is down and there's
so many dangers involved with that like weights
and forces like potential energy what's called
potential energy that could be released in any
sort of way that could be detrimental to a person,
whether it's electrical energy, physical energy,
you know, kinetic, whatever. It's pretty easy
to move something and end up losing a limb or
life because of it, right? This forces you, you
know, anyway, it's great. Mentorship is where
it's supposed to be. It's a craft, you know,
whether it's EMS, whether it's line work or a
trade, it's a craft. Uh, we're meant to mentor.
That's, that's our job. So any craftsmen that
said, you know, I'm, I'm not teach, I'm not teaching.
I don't have to teach apprentices. That's not
my job. You hear that a lot too. That's another
one of those old sayings. Like it's not my job
to teach apprentices. It is most certainly your
job. It is more your job. Exactly. Who taught
you is more your job than the actual job you're
doing at that point. A hundred percent. and this
is what's what's scary about the fire service
at the moment i know a lot of departments 50
have five years on or less so you know because
i always looked at that i stayed at firefighter
rank for 14 years and i love that kind of journeyman
experience that you're talking about you're trying
to we're already a swiss army knife before you
talk about promotion and I personally didn't
have, as I got deeper into my career, any real
desire to be an engineer or a lieutenant as far
as the ranks because I was still learning how
to be a good firefighter paramedic. But when
you lose that experience, then where are the
mentors now? And you hear Jocko with the origin
story of Origin, the clothing company, them trying
to find someone who knew how to use a loom in
the US. You had mentioned before we hit record
about some of the challenges of industry and
therefore the trades in Canada. What are you
seeing as far as the challenges and how do we
reinvigorate, you know, whether it's manufacturer
or the other industries in our own countries
again? It's going to that. We're atrophying,
meaning if you're not building things. you're
going to lose the people who do build the things
and then you're going to lose that that transfer
of knowledge and skill sets as well like it's
it's going to atrophy which is scary because
canada honestly produces like i can speak directly
for the line trade canada's produced amazing
power line workers we have a wide range of uh
just geographical geological terrain that really
tests our skills and makes us great linemen um
so you have that kind of like playground but
if you're not building anything on this terrain
which we haven't really built stuff we haven't
invested in infrastructure for years now um and
that's not just that's just not powerline infrastructure
that's you know pipelines that's logging that's
mining that's whatever craft skill labor requires
we just haven't done it for a long time so a
lot of people that i grew up with in the trade
have like me left for the united states left
for other places in the world there's uh powerline
projects going on in australia right now in europe
you know south america in united states massive
projects and you're instantly received down there
it's like yeah we need your help so let's go
like we've got stuff for you to do and so we're
losing that up here so when you lose that too
like you usually lose the best ones so to say
first Because they can get those work visas because
they're highly trained, highly skilled, highly
needed and required, right? So it's a little
easier to get those work visas and go to work.
So you lose the top level of your skill set right
off the top. There you go. They're gone. And
then that trickle -down effect of that into passing
down the skills and knowledge to the next generation,
we're starting to see that. And it's very unfortunate.
It makes more work. for the people who do care
here that are still in those trades it makes
a lot more work and pressure on them to train
that next generation because they're they're
dealing with a smaller a sandbox to play in and
you know less skilled you know craft and craftsmen
to help train those people so i don't know it's
it's tough it's really tough and then even getting
into the trades themselves so i'll take my son
for example again I've been in the industry for
26 years. My family's been in the industry for
50 years. With all of my connections in Canada,
I still could not get him a job in Canada doing
that profession. But one text message, and I've
got him into that line school in Texas. He'll
come out of that with an immediate job and a
great career and good pay. But that's in another
country, which is fine. you know it's unfortunate
because not everybody here has that opportunity
but yeah opportunities pretty slim as well it
reminds me of a conversation with rasul razak
which was uh a pseudonym but he was a former
mujahideen he fought alongside you know our allies
in afghanistan and did a really powerful conversation
on post withdrawal what the Afghan people were
going through, you know, starvation and the winters
and, you know, the ripple effects of, you know,
almost 20 years of war. And he was talking about,
you know, it's great that a lot of the Afghan
people were brought to the US and, you know,
often for their own safety. He said, but you've
got to understand that's all our best people.
Not all, but like you said, a lot of skilled
people could come over here and become a physician
or an engineer or, you know, whatever these roles
were. And I've heard someone say the converse
as well. They were all about immigration. But
think about it. For every someone who truly comes
from another country that was poached for the
profession that they do and brought here, that's
one American of whatever color, creed, ethnicity,
religion, but a born and bred American. could
have filled that role as a doctor or as whatever.
And you've also taken a great physician from,
let's say, India to bring them here. So again,
rising tide lifts all ships. When you're investing
in each other's infrastructure and investing
in your own people, everyone elevates. But you
start pilfering and pinching people from other
countries, you're doing a disservice to that
country and in theory, your own as well, because
the question then... you know, is, well, you're
telling me there aren't enough young people in
America to become physicians, but what's a big
barrier? My wife just went through it. You literally
have half a million dollars worth of debt if
you become a doctor in America, but there are
countries all over the world that actually support
their young students. And India, I believe is
one of them where they, you know, they take care
of them through the whole thing, but then, you
know, how sad is that, that they've educated
a young doctor. And then a few years later, that
doctor then. comes to another country after the
people of India invested in them. So it's a really
interesting conversation that really kind of
everyone loses when we do this. And if we actually
just create these opportunities for our own people
in each of these countries, everyone wins. And
it's cheaper because you're not having to ship
all these products all over the world then. It's
a topic that definitely needs to be explored
more. i wouldn't say i'm an expert on it but
like an opinion i do have on it is we could be
better at so say like allowing people to because
this is one of the things that that is really
nice about power line work is it's a very transient
trade it's not typically like plumbing or something
where you can stay very local in your own community
and you just do it there you can do that with
line work but you can also be a person who chases
major projects and goes out and works on major
projects which are all in different areas right
you have this ability uh to be transient and
what that does is it teaches you skill sets that
you wouldn't necessarily get in your small little
community it's experience doing know projects
you wouldn't get to do in your community learning
from people that you wouldn't get to learn from
but it's like what happens after so it's this
conversation around okay like that should be
a part of training um but we get them back you
know and we have we have work for them to come
back to and a life for them to come back to if
there's no life or no work for them to come back
to they're not going to come back And that's
the combo that we've really got to start having
more of. Like once you lose them, you tend to
just lose them now. I know lots of my friends
that have completely moved to the United States,
not because they totally wanted to. Yeah, they
wanted to. given that choice to stay home they
probably would have stayed home they just didn't
have that ability nothing to come back to you
know no life like didn't agree with a lot of
things to come back but they would choose that
if they had that choice so like i don't know
more convo around that because there's there's
awesome components to getting out of your comfort
zone you know and getting that gaining that experience
in another country with new people, new cultures,
new ways of doing things, but then bringing that
back and teaching the people that you can teach
from your own place. Absolutely. Love that. One
more area before we go to some closing questions.
You, like myself, have transitioned out of actual
hands -on Lyman work and now are more in this
space, the promotion, the marketing, that kind
of area. What made you pull the trigger to to
step out and let's talk about what you're doing
these days so my original exit from the tools
we'll call it from being on the tools was a like
a family scenario i had to get my son in a different
school he was uh grew up with severe dyslexia
so i had to get him out of regular public school
and into a school that meant i had to move and
when i moved i was come i kind of faced this
choice whether i stay more at home with him or
still trace those chase those transient jobs
so i decided to take an office job a management
job in the same industry but more management
that was my original transition out of it i really
uh i don't like i'm a tradesman through and through
all of those other reasons we already talked
about were the reasons like i loved line work
um so being in management It wasn't my gig. I
just didn't like being in an office every day.
Didn't like sitting under fluorescent lights.
Didn't like the politics. I just, I still don't.
I really like shy away from that. So that's what
motivated me to start the podcast and start marketing.
And that actually COVID was an opportunity to
step away from management. So I was in that management
kind of executive role for like five years. COVID
was like an opportunity for me to step back from
that and go, okay, it's like, spend some time
with the family. Let's pour into the podcast.
Let's do some marketing. Let's do something else.
And that's when I ended up taking an instructor
job, which got me, you know, partially in a classroom,
like inside, but then I also got to go teach
climbing class outside and spend time on the
tools again, spend time in my own belt and hooks
and climb poles again and towers again and train
and impart and be that. mentor. Right. And I
fell in love with that. I loved that. I kept
running the podcast on the side on my own time
during that whole, that whole time. And it ended
up getting recognized by a large contracting
powerline contracting company. And they asked
if I just come do that full time for them. So
like. The marketing and promotion has always
kind of been there of it. It was my connection
back to the trade, my brothers and sisters, that
job and career I fell in love with. So it was
just this kind of like natural progression towards
it. I miss it sometimes, but sometimes I'm like,
I could, I could give or take it now. I've spent
enough time away from it now that I'm kind of
like, I don't necessarily whatever. know if i'd
want to jump back into on the tools again so
i'm like i'm in a weird place right now and i
was actually curious like how you're dealing
with that as well from from the fire perspective
and used to because honestly nothing else in
my life was quite like that like i'm I'm on my
own. I do a lot of work from my own home office
like I am right now. But then I also get out
on the road. I get half and half, 50 -50. I get
out in the field with guys still, but I'm not
doing the actual work. But I get out there to
interview them and mingle with them and talk
to them. And then I'm back in my office. And
I spend some time in a corporate office as well.
But none of that has the experiences or have
I gained the experiences in that that I did.
on the tools in the trade building camaraderie
brotherhood like enjoying the struggle of everyday
line work and all of those other things we talked
about so i don't know it's a weird time for me
right now like i'm drifting further and further
from it um but still it's like it's almost like
the highlight of my career that i still talk
about was like back when you know i've become
that person now it's like oh back when i used
to do that i kind of i don't know i don't want
to be that person either right So I don't know.
What I found when I've analyzed my transition
is the mission hasn't changed. Before, and I
was just talking to my mom to this, I believe
that when I was a young boy, I was very kind.
I went through a turbulent time, kind of teens
-ish, where I was probably more selfish in dealing
with some family issues and stuff. And then I
found my way back again. And then the mission
again was to be kind. Even during the turbulent
times, I was a lifeguard. I was always doing
something that was trying to make people's lives
better, keep them safe, etc. And so now when
I look back at the 14 years, my career was bizarre.
I didn't expect to leave the fire service, but
the universe, God, literally was like, hey, you've
done all you can do from the inside. You like
to... you know kick in doors so we're going to
put you outside the fire service and continue
this and what i realized is uh the uh it was
actually a delta guy initially i think that told
me this but the force multiplier i love that
term like 14 years in you can maybe you know
you can promote you can put bugles on your collar
or you can go teach at a fire academy but what
i saw is Or you can actually try and make changes
that affect the entire fire service. And then
ultimately, every single person, every single
one of those first responders now responds to
in their whole career. So once I kind of left
and tried volunteering for a second, I realized
that the identity hadn't changed at all. It was
different costumes. I wore a lifeguard costume.
I wore a stuntman costume. I wore a firefighter
and a paramedic costume. But the mission... It's
the same. It's James Gearing just putting clothes
and taking them off. So that's how I've come
to terms with it. And watching, for example,
Pasco County two days ago go to the 24 -72, this
healthy work week, fully staffed. And my friend
Dixon, who's a union president, saying that he
has been watching his brothers and sisters posting,
this will be the last. I ever work on a 24 -48.
And this is, you know, they were understaffed
before. So they were getting forced into mandatory
just a couple of years ago, two, three years
ago. And now they're on a four fully staffed
shift system where they go for 24 hours and then
they have a full 72 hours and they will not get
a phone call saying, you have to stay. Tell your
kids you can't go home. Life's changing. You
know, and was that just me? Absolutely not. But
I know, and he said this, that I was at least
part of that. And there's other departments that
have reached out that I know I've helped definitely
one -on -one. So we're talking thousands of firefighters
who are going to go on and save hundreds or change
hundreds of thousands of lives. That's enough
for me. I don't need to be front and center.
I don't need to be in the bunker gear, getting
off the rig, looking all heroic. It's time for
someone else to do that now. But I think that's
what keeps me going. And then writing the books
and now working on this TV show where now I've
got my heart set on changing millions of lives.
Sounds grandiose, but imagine if you had the
popularity of Tiger King with a show that actually
helped people heal. Made a difference. Imagine
the impact. Yeah. So it's just now it's like,
how can you go bigger and not more grandiose,
but take, you know, you're 20 years old. How
can you use that experience? Now you're 30. Now
you're 40. Now you're 50. 50 years old with all
these things that you've done. You know, now
how can you. use that wisdom in a way that helps
so many people and ultimately most people will
never know you had anything to do with it which
i think is fucking awesome because it's not for
the glory it's just to make the world better
you know so that for me is really how i come
to terms with it is come hell or high water we're
talking you know just before we hit record about
you know the the um The 2025 and the impact on
a lot of companies and how financial struggles,
whether I have three sponsors or zero sponsors,
three episodes go out a week regardless. The
mission hasn't changed. Hopefully, I get sponsors
where I can pay my mortgage. That's kind of important,
but it doesn't change the fact that come hell
or high water, three episodes are going to go
out every week because I know that someone out
there would have need to have heard that very
conversation. Long answer to your question, but
I think that's it. It's just understanding what
you're doing now is so important, but it's just
less front -facing admiration that we got when
we were actually doing the job, whether you were
going towards a storm or I was going towards
a fire. Yeah, I mean, you can never change that
feeling. But it's also kind of been there, done
that. 14 years later, you're not learning as
much per every call. It takes an absolute bomb
burner to even get your heart rate up 14 years
later. So that's a good time to be like, all
right, how can I use all of this that I've got
now and help everyone that's in there? And then,
again, create this amazing opportunity so the
next generation of firefighters are going into
something that's super healthy for their physical
health, for their mental health. And, you know,
we don't have... comments that i've had you know
when i walk through the front door of oh you
wait 10 years you'll have you know your third
marriage and an alcohol problem i want that to
go away completely i want that to have been ancient
history where they say did you hear what they
used to say back in the day but now firefighting
is still dangerous still courageous but the environment
that they work in sets them up for a high level
of performance not a likelihood of cancer or
suicide yeah I love the way you framed that a
hundred percent. I, I feel like that is, that's
definitely, I resonate with that as well. It's
like the mission has not changed. I guess it's
just like the, the transformation of myself going
through this in real time is what's just. I don't
know. It's a, it's a human experience. Everybody
does it. That's why like somebody listening to
this right now is somewhere in this transition
period. At what point it, you know, it's just
a matter of time before you're in a point like
myself or you, where you've been in something
for a period of time and you now exit that and
you've got to figure out something else to do.
So I, I love the way you framed that. It's just
a costume. It really is just a, it's just a costume
I wore. But yeah, the mission hasn't changed.
Yeah. And I think you look back with pride. I
mean, it's like raising your kids. One day, I
mean, yours is about to turn 19. Mine is not
far behind that. And I know that a year and a
half from now, my son will be going to college,
touch wood, and be off on his own medical journey.
And now we're going to have an empty home. And
again, we can't relive that. That's the point.
So you're like, okay, well, what can we do now?
Well, I'm going to watch him create his own family
and his career, and I'm going to keep doing what
I'm doing. But it's okay to be nostalgic. It
is. But you already live that. You had the best
years. As you said, the early years were the
most exciting years. So I think being proud of
that and then turning the page and be like, all
right, what exciting shit can I start now? So
that when I'm 60, I look back and go, man, 52
was a hell of a year, wasn't it? Yeah. And I
had one experience in last October. I got to
take him to, we do this thing in line work. We
call it the international lineman rodeo, but
it's just a competition for linemen to get together.
Thousands of linemen get together to compete
in the name of safety and competition in our
sport, like a fireman sport, you know, day. So
we competed in this time. So I took him to the
largest one in the world. It's in Kansas city.
I got to immerse him in this career that he was
wanting to get into now, but it was super special
because it's also like what I've spent the last
26 years of my life in and all of the connections.
Like it was so neat for him to experience that
with me and see again, not like not gloating,
but see some of the impact his father's had in
the line community was a bit of a celebrity there
in that way, but like not. Again, not like not
gloating because everyone that came up to say
something was something along the lines of like,
thank you for doing what you do. I would never
have known about this career. I was miserable
at my old job. I was doing this and now I'm doing
this and I love it. I'm thriving. like a few
of them with baby strollers and their wives and
we just want to thank you and like my son's standing
there and he got to hear this again and again
and again and again i could just i don't know
for him to be able to see that because it made
this connection i think with him that this this
connection to what what dad did for the last
26 years you know some of those times some of
those birthdays i had to miss because i was on
a storm call or called out or whatever Like that
was the reason. And I don't know, it's like it
clicked for him because really your kids don't
care about what you do until they care. You know,
one day it clicks with them when they're kids.
They don't really, I don't know. Dad builds power
lines. I don't even know what that is, but it
clicked for him there. And that was super special.
I just did a workout that I do every year. It's
a fundraising one in memory of the 343 we lost
in 9 -11. And it's it's imagine like a kind of
CrossFit fused with firefighter movements. It's
really, really good. I've done it for 11 years
now, I think. But it's kind of like you're saying
it wasn't even so much. Thank you. Even though
there were some of those, it was just I was reconnected
with so many firefighters that I've known for
years and years and years. And these are the
men and women that are at these events. This
is the true brotherhood and sisterhood. And I've
been out the fire service, you know, when I went
this last time for. seven years i hadn't worked
for that department for 12 years and between
the actual events i literally spent the whole
time just bumping into people and so and it wasn't
even so much the podcast even though that was
part of it it was just when you've worked with
these people there is this bond and it doesn't
end just because you've gone you know for a few
years so I think seeing that too, seeing what
the true camaraderie looks like when you're amongst
the real men and women of the fire service, you
know, who are there when it counts. So they're,
you know, the shared suffering yet again to show
the firefighters of New York that we haven't
forgotten and to fundraise for local charities.
Like that's something special. My son got to
witness that, you know, a little while ago too.
So, yeah, I mean, it is. And then you feel locked
in again. You're like, OK, this is why I'm doing
this. This is a beautiful reminder of, yeah,
it's not just staring at a screen and talking
to a microphone because I don't know if you have
the same. It's kind of feels a little hermit
-esque because we're not in the station every
day. But then you get to kind of drop in and
reconnect with some of these places. And, you
know, it does show the fruits of your labor,
as it were. Yeah, agreed. I love it. It was a
great experience. All right. Well, going to some
closing questions then. The first one I love
to ask, is there a book or are there books that
you'd love to recommend? It can be related to
our discussion today or completely unrelated.
A book that I've been recommending a lot lately
is Winning by Tim Grover. I got to see Tim in
person a couple of months ago at an event, give
a talk, and I'm going to see him again live next
month. Absolutely love Tim Tim's. If anyone doesn't
know, Tim is Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan's,
most famously known as Kobe Bryant and Michael
Jordan's personal trainer. He was on The Last
Dance. Yeah, just winning is a phenomenal book.
It's one of those ones that'll just kick you
right in the butt and really start making you
question like what you're up to and what you're
doing and how bad you want things. So yeah, winning.
Brilliant. What about television, film, documentary?
television film documentary i haven't really
been into tv lately i consume a lot of podcasts
and i won't point to one podcast because i listen
to so many but honestly i i just it's something
everybody has their their podcasts just get out
of get out of the normal train of ones you listen
to and try one that you haven't every, you know,
maybe inject one a week. If you're one of those
avid podcast listeners, one a week that you haven't
really listened to lately, but that's one thing
I've been challenging myself with. Brilliant.
So the next question, is there a person that
you recommend to come on this podcast as a guest
to speak to the first responders, military and
associated professions of the world? Yeah, I've
got one for you and I could ask him if he'd be
willing to do it. It came on my podcast. His
name is Shane Kimbrough and he's an army veteran.
He was a helicopter commander and he was an astronaut
commander, space station commander, spent 365
days on the space station. Numerous, over 24
hours of spacewalking time. Phenomenal guy. I
think he would be good for your community. He's
a really interesting guy. So that'd be a good
one. And then there's another one that I've met
recently, Ted Carter. So former vice admiral
and now president of Ohio State University, Ted
Carter. He's a good guy. Promotes the trades,
promotes veterans, obviously. um and has a lot
of like a lot of leadership knowledge to draw
from so he'd be great for the show as well brilliant
have you ever thought about trying to get on
mike rose show Yeah, I would love to. I have
not reached out, but yes. Have you had Mike Rowe
on yours? No, I need to. I've wanted to. I think
I have written to him before, but now he's actually
got a podcast. It's probably time that I do again.
You know, mate, it's funny. Hardly any of these
people have firefighters on their show either.
Joe Rogan has never had a career firefighter
on his show in almost 3 ,000 episodes. So that's
how underrepresented our community is. He's never
had a lineman on his show either. yeah yeah he's
never had alignment on a show either and i It's
just one of those industries not many people
are aware of. I think he'd really enjoy having
a convo with a lineman and exposing awareness
of the community and what they do because I think
it's massively valuable. He's had a couple people
on that have referenced doing line work before
in the past or having it in the family, like
some famous people. I know Cam Haynes has a really
good hunting buddy that's a lineman. Um, and
I think Cam's had them on his show, but yeah,
we could just definitely use some more. Yeah,
absolutely. That's what I'm hoping to, when the
show comes out, get a, get, get on some of these
bigger platforms and start telling our story.
Cause you know, it's not only about what we do,
it's how we see the world, which is what, you
know, kind of my, my latest book is trying to
do is to show, show society through a firefighter's
eyes to not make the firefighter, the kind of
hero of the story as it were quite the opposite,
but you know, A politician can get up there and
say that crime is down or whatever shit they're
spouting at that moment. But ask a cop, ask a
paramedic, ask a firefighter. How is their community?
Ask the people in Vancouver or Toronto about
the opioid crisis or San Francisco about the
homelessness. They'll tell you how it actually
is because they're the ones. the last line of
defense for these poor people when they're at
death's door so i think it would be you know
an invaluable perspective and i hope the show
will then kind of leverage a lot of people to
be able to get out there and tell their story
too there's also the devin levac i recommended
to you i don't know him personally but i've followed
him for a while and i think he'd be great for
your community because you just even mentioned
that word community and building community and
i think This whole idea of building community
has been engulfed by the online idea of building
a community and a digital presence and a digital
community through followers or subscribers. And
that's definitely a great aspect, but like what
happens when you, when you try to take that in
real life. And I think we need more. in real
life community. Um, and he does it amazing building
both digital online and in real life communities.
And what he's doing with his in, in real life
communities, which are is, is awesome. Another
one is Eric Hinman. I've had him on my show in
the past from Austin, Texas. He's phenomenal
at building community. He's in that, uh, that
hybrid athlete, high rocks, CrossFit. uh that
sort of community health and wellness community
but he does such a good job at actually building
community through in real life stuff as well
as the digital so i don't know their their perspectives
on on both the digital and in real life community
aspect would be cool was it devin that you told
me about that had the the farms yeah yeah yeah
yeah brilliant All right. Well, the last question
before we make sure everyone knows where to find
you, what do you do to decompress? Honestly,
decompression for me is time alone. I'm like
an introverted extrovert. So I can turn it on
when I need to, but I really need that recharge
my social battery by spending time alone. And
that's just doing things as simple as walking,
hiking, things like that, writing. Those are,
again, I'm just a normal dude. I don't take things
usually to the extreme, especially you see a
lot of that again on social media where everybody
thinks you got to run 15 marathons a year in
order to have time to yourself. But I just go
for a walk, listen to a podcast, listen to an
audio book or go with no device. Write a lot
in my journal. whatever my thoughts are just
get it out of my head on the paper i love being
creative um even just thinking about creative
things and not even necessarily making them but
just going through the process of thinking them
writing them out ideas things like that i love
that that's like my decompression there has been
a kind of um hero worshipping of ultra running
and yeah it's interesting because i mean you
know i'm the first one to be out there talking
about how important it is for we move but i always
look at what did we do back in the day as human
beings the way that we you know found our food
the way prepared our food you know the way we
moved etc the way we you know takes a village
you know we took care of each other's kids and
took care of the elderly but if you look at these
ultra endurance events you're getting away from
wellness now and you're doing a very myopic performance
thing. Same as the strongman events at the highest
level. Really, it's at the detriment of your
well -being. So I think people need to understand
that. If you want to be an ultra runner or Ironman
triathlete, amazing. More power to you. So much
respect. But understand that that's not wellness.
Wellness, you can be active. You can do sports
you love and train hard three, four times a week.
When you go beyond that, you're actually going
away from wellness and longevity now. And if
you're, for example, a firefighter who's not
sleeping every third day or maybe every second
day because you're getting forced to work overtimes,
is running 50 miles the best thing? Or are you
accelerating maybe potential injury in that particular
choice of sport? So I think it's an important
part of the conversation. Like the GLP -1, if
you just fell in love with running and endurance
sports, then... That's exactly what you should
be doing. But this kind of hero worship of, you
know, running, you know, like the, why am I blanking
on his name? Who's the Navy SEAL that kind of
started it all? Oh, Goggins. Goggins, yeah. I
mean, you know, worshiping David. David's on
his own journey. That's David Goggins' journey.
But you, you know, you can still be a man and
go to the gym for an hour, three or four times
a week. You're okay. You know, you don't have
to run yourself into the ground. you know, absolutely
some shared suffering once in a while, you know,
push your limits a little bit, but, um, that,
you know, super, super endurance events, um,
you know, they do come at a cost and we see it
even cardiac, you know, the arrhythmias, a lot
of these endurance athletes get in their forties
and fifties that can be, you know, life changing
or life ending. So I think it's just too important
for people to understand that. So that's a nuanced
conversation and it's just, it's not for everyone.
So, and that's okay. That's also part of that.
thing where you're going to age and are you doing
more detriment to your body than like good to
it by doing stuff like that like it's a tough
it needs more convo as well but like are you
doing more damage than you are good because you're
going to age and you see these guys now like
we've been around long enough where we've watched
some of these guys that like Goggins like cam
haines they've done amazing things but now cam's
aging and you know he still puts up impressive
numbers in the gym and running and but you can
see the hurt you can see the toll that that's
actually taken on him so like where where was
that line i don't know it needs more combo but
you're 100 right don't worship it don't think
that don't think that because everybody's like
putting this 100 milers on a pedestal that you
need to be a hundred mile racer. Just start,
especially if you haven't even started by going
out for a walk yet. Like, you know, start with
something small. I don't think you need to run
a hundred miles. I have a conversation on here
a lot with people who are coaches, you know,
athletic trainers, you know, people that were
high level athletes themselves. The kind of blurred
lines in school and college. with youth athletes
as far as squeezing out performance at the detriment
of that young person's wellness and longevity
and you see a lot of people in their 30s and
40s in america with these woulda coulda shoulda
stories that are now very deconditioned and unhealthy
because they hit that wall and so now i think
that's beautiful that we're starting to have
this conversation it's like yeah it's important
to win But you've got to take care. I mean, if
someone's had multiple surgeries and they're
only 17, 18 years old, that's a problem. That's
a broken system. So you can play a bunch of sports
and you look at other places in the world that
have world champions. They're not training their
children like we do in the US. So at the beginning
of this journey as well is another important
conversation of get your kids into sports, let
them play at whatever level they're good at.
But if they start specializing and they're getting
hurt that young an age, that's a problem because
that injury could follow them the rest of their
life. And same into your career as well. I'm
dealing myself with lower back problems and knee
problems, not to the point of surgery, but they're
to the point of I need to address them every
day in how I train and my mobility work just
to relieve tightness and tension and pain. is
a direct result of not treating myself properly
in the career I had and further back in sports.
I grew up playing ice hockey at a very competitive
rate as a kid and riding dirt bikes at very competitive
in the summertime. And that all led into this
job that was a very physical job. And I did things
in the line trade. I did not treat my body because
I was young. I could bounce back from it in a
day. But it is catching up with me, not to the
point of surgery, but to the point where I have
to dress it every day. So it's a real thing.
You do age and it sucks. Yeah, exactly. But I
mean, the good thing is there are things that
will help. There are proactive measures. There
are movement practices that will help with back
pain and knee pain and all kinds of stuff as
well. So that's the good news. But the bad news
is the older you get, the more time and effort
you have to spend in those things to still be
an active middle -aged person. Yeah. 100%. All
right. Well, for people listening, where are
the best places to find the Powerline podcast?
And then what about yourself? Myself, my personal
Instagram, I love connecting with people. If
anyone has questions, especially military, looking
for a place in the trades, come chat with me,
open. Ryan W. Lucas is my Instagram. At Powerline
Podcast is my podcast. Find it on all platforms,
on YouTube, Spotify, all those platforms as well.
Great. I use your term. um it's a library of
resources for people to learn about the industry
and the trade and that sort of thing so definitely
go use that brilliant well i want to thank you
so much mate it's been so great catching up again
you know obviously very you know a number of
things have changed since we last spoke so i
think it's it's been incredible to kind of really
hit some of these topics and kind of circle around
and visit your world again. So I want to thank
you so much for being so generous with your time
and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast again.
Absolutely, sir. Love it.