WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.760
Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As

00:00:01.760 --> 00:00:03.620
always, my name is James Geering, and this week

00:00:03.620 --> 00:00:05.620
it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show

00:00:05.620 --> 00:00:09.980
athletic trainer and volunteer firefighter, Dr.

00:00:10.140 --> 00:00:13.980
Mark Wysocki. Now, in this conversation, we discuss

00:00:13.980 --> 00:00:17.179
a host of topics, from keeping our youth athletes

00:00:17.179 --> 00:00:21.300
safe, injury prevention, chasing a scholarship,

00:00:21.620 --> 00:00:25.859
his journey into EMS, the volunteer fire service,

00:00:26.079 --> 00:00:30.969
mental health. organizational betrayal, healing

00:00:30.969 --> 00:00:35.250
tools, the E. Dali essay he wrote, and so much

00:00:35.250 --> 00:00:38.429
more. Now, before we get to this incredible conversation,

00:00:38.670 --> 00:00:41.329
as I say every week, please just take a moment,

00:00:41.490 --> 00:00:44.950
go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe

00:00:44.950 --> 00:00:48.609
to the show, leave feedback, and leave a rating.

00:00:49.450 --> 00:00:52.509
Every single five -star rating truly does elevate

00:00:52.509 --> 00:00:55.390
this podcast, therefore making it easier for

00:00:55.390 --> 00:00:59.070
others to find. And this is a free library of

00:00:59.070 --> 00:01:03.990
almost 1 ,200 episodes now. So all I ask in return

00:01:03.990 --> 00:01:07.090
is that you help share these incredible men and

00:01:07.090 --> 00:01:10.329
women's stories so I can get them to every single

00:01:10.329 --> 00:01:13.329
person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

00:01:13.909 --> 00:01:18.030
So with that being said, I introduce to you Dr.

00:01:18.170 --> 00:01:40.950
Mark. Wysocki. Enjoy. Well, Mark, I want to start

00:01:40.950 --> 00:01:43.650
by saying thank you so much for taking the time

00:01:43.650 --> 00:01:45.670
to come on the Behind the Shield podcast. But

00:01:45.670 --> 00:01:48.150
before we jump in, I also want to say thank you

00:01:48.150 --> 00:01:51.290
to Kevin Sofen, because through the eDolly SE

00:01:51.290 --> 00:01:56.549
competition, that is how we came together. So

00:01:56.549 --> 00:01:58.709
thank you to Kevin, and I want to welcome you

00:01:58.709 --> 00:02:01.209
onto the show. Thank you. Thank you. And yes,

00:02:01.290 --> 00:02:04.230
definitely. Thank you, Kevin. So where on planet

00:02:04.230 --> 00:02:07.180
Earth are we finding you this afternoon? I'm

00:02:07.180 --> 00:02:10.180
in Sheffield, Massachusetts. For people who don't

00:02:10.180 --> 00:02:12.699
know, obviously, our state is a long rectangle.

00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:17.319
And Boston is the opposite end. I'm in the southwest

00:02:17.319 --> 00:02:19.819
corner of Massachusetts, right near the New York,

00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:24.699
Connecticut border. So as we record this, Florida

00:02:24.699 --> 00:02:26.419
is cold, but I'm not going to insult the rest

00:02:26.419 --> 00:02:28.599
of the country as to how cold because it's still

00:02:28.599 --> 00:02:30.300
beautiful. I just want to walk my dog in a pair

00:02:30.300 --> 00:02:33.060
of jeans. But it's cold for us. What are you

00:02:33.060 --> 00:02:36.560
experiencing up there? We got a foot and a half,

00:02:36.699 --> 00:02:39.240
all powder, which is good. I'll take that over

00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:43.400
any ice mix. And I think when I walked out, it

00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:46.340
got up to 20. So earlier today was single digits.

00:02:46.819 --> 00:02:48.780
Yeah, brilliant. I think we're supposed to be

00:02:48.780 --> 00:02:51.319
in the 20s in about three or four days at night.

00:02:51.460 --> 00:02:53.979
So that's pretty damn chilly for Florida. So

00:02:53.979 --> 00:02:56.280
all our plans will be dead. Yeah, my parents

00:02:56.280 --> 00:02:58.379
live in Florida as well. So I understand where

00:02:58.379 --> 00:03:01.000
you're coming from. jumping ahead but we just

00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:03.259
before we hit record you mentioned about working

00:03:03.259 --> 00:03:05.800
at the disney um was it the marathon you said

00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:08.460
yes yeah one of my friends is one of the medical

00:03:08.460 --> 00:03:11.280
coordinators so she invited me and my wife down

00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:14.360
to help me volunteers okay i'd be curious of

00:03:14.360 --> 00:03:16.659
your perspective of that when i worked for the

00:03:16.659 --> 00:03:19.340
fire department that protected disney um one

00:03:19.340 --> 00:03:21.240
of the most bizarre things i've witnessed is

00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:23.020
we were in one of the vans that was a medical

00:03:23.020 --> 00:03:26.099
van but we kind of held up the rear and we watched

00:03:26.099 --> 00:03:29.479
this couple start the race. I don't know if they

00:03:29.479 --> 00:03:33.659
even ran half a mile, took a selfie with their

00:03:33.659 --> 00:03:36.479
medals and then got in the van that was the kind

00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:38.539
of, you know, the van that took the stragglers

00:03:38.539 --> 00:03:41.780
back. It wasn't our van. And so I realized that

00:03:41.780 --> 00:03:43.240
there are some people out there that said they

00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:45.060
ran the Disney marathon. They did run it. They

00:03:45.060 --> 00:03:48.219
just didn't finish it. Were there any, any bizarre

00:03:48.219 --> 00:03:49.780
things that you've witnessed in that particular

00:03:49.780 --> 00:03:53.419
area? Well, obviously when you said the back,

00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:56.349
I learned about the famous balloon ladies. the

00:03:56.349 --> 00:03:58.509
ones who uh set the pace and if you don't make

00:03:58.509 --> 00:04:01.509
the pace you got to get in the bus and yeah um

00:04:01.509 --> 00:04:05.250
as far as bizarre i would just say the 5k outfits

00:04:05.250 --> 00:04:08.969
really uh we were lucky this time around it was

00:04:08.969 --> 00:04:11.310
really good weather unfortunately it was hot

00:04:11.310 --> 00:04:14.250
during the marathon i mean even for you know

00:04:14.250 --> 00:04:17.470
i mean not hot for me but i know hot for running

00:04:17.470 --> 00:04:20.610
conditions and how long they have to go but uh

00:04:20.610 --> 00:04:23.709
yeah i mean even well people were in uniform

00:04:23.709 --> 00:04:27.379
costumes with the higher races but they were

00:04:27.379 --> 00:04:30.860
more running you know they could build it into

00:04:30.860 --> 00:04:33.839
their running outfit so it wasn't like a full

00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:37.300
costume like the 5k was so that's about the most

00:04:37.300 --> 00:04:39.939
bizarre stuff i saw and i didn't see any like

00:04:39.939 --> 00:04:42.439
wannabes like that i was at the i was always

00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:44.720
at the finish line or the family reunion area

00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:48.620
when they were really done done Yeah, kudos to

00:04:48.620 --> 00:04:50.639
Reedy Creek and some of the medics, though, because

00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:53.519
they've had so many cardiac arrest saves on those

00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:55.339
marathons. Because, you know, as you can imagine,

00:04:55.459 --> 00:04:57.339
with that many people and the heat and everything

00:04:57.339 --> 00:04:59.120
else, you know, we do have medical emergencies

00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:01.639
once in a while. So they've saved a lot of lives

00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:05.300
on that race. Yeah, I only saw, well, I meant

00:05:05.300 --> 00:05:07.740
the running around the identity spaces. I only

00:05:07.740 --> 00:05:09.800
saw, I think, two ambulance trips right from

00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:12.779
a medical tent, which is great considering the

00:05:12.779 --> 00:05:16.019
number of people. Absolutely. All right. Well,

00:05:16.060 --> 00:05:18.420
let's get to the beginning of your timeline then.

00:05:18.459 --> 00:05:20.600
So tell me where you were born and tell me a

00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:22.500
little bit about your family dynamic, what your

00:05:22.500 --> 00:05:26.040
parents did, how many siblings? Sure. So I was

00:05:26.040 --> 00:05:30.759
born back in the 1900s. That's a joke for the

00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:35.660
newer people listening. Okay. So I was born in

00:05:35.660 --> 00:05:38.500
Meriden, Connecticut, which is like halfway between

00:05:38.500 --> 00:05:42.339
Hartford, New Haven. My dad worked for Pratt

00:05:42.339 --> 00:05:46.160
& Whitney, makes jet engines, for 42 years. And

00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:50.300
my mom was a phys ed teacher for 25, 30 years

00:05:50.300 --> 00:05:52.800
for middle school. So she needs a medal alone

00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:56.699
just for doing that for middle school kids. I

00:05:56.699 --> 00:05:59.160
have one sibling, a brother who's six years older

00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:02.980
than me, naval aviator for 32 years. He's retired

00:06:02.980 --> 00:06:08.860
now. So that's my family dynamic. The start of

00:06:08.860 --> 00:06:11.779
my origin story. I'm a superhero fan, so I'm

00:06:11.779 --> 00:06:15.860
going to use origin story. Sophomore year, I

00:06:15.860 --> 00:06:18.519
joined the football team in high school. My freshman

00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:20.879
year, I played freshman football. Sophomore year,

00:06:21.060 --> 00:06:24.360
I got through two weeks of double sessions. Obviously,

00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:28.600
this is the 80s, so the hours and all that, we

00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:31.310
just went twice a day for two weeks. Basically,

00:06:31.310 --> 00:06:34.189
I had Sunday off. Basically, a tackling dummy

00:06:34.189 --> 00:06:36.709
for the varsity kids, but I made it. I made it

00:06:36.709 --> 00:06:39.790
all the way through. Obviously, banged up, hurt,

00:06:39.889 --> 00:06:42.350
but I made it through all the practices. First

00:06:42.350 --> 00:06:44.970
practice, after school, first tackling drill,

00:06:45.089 --> 00:06:48.790
tore my ACL. Oh, my goodness. I collided with

00:06:48.790 --> 00:06:51.730
another sophomore. I didn't feel anything. I

00:06:51.730 --> 00:06:54.029
just heard the pops in my ear from the, from

00:06:54.029 --> 00:06:57.089
the pads, not my knee. And I was like, I remember

00:06:57.089 --> 00:06:59.730
sitting halfway on my butt and coach said, Hey,

00:06:59.750 --> 00:07:01.910
just need to do like, you know, get lower, get

00:07:01.910 --> 00:07:04.209
underneath, right. Get back up in line. I'm like,

00:07:04.250 --> 00:07:07.269
okay. I got up and then that was it. Like my

00:07:07.269 --> 00:07:09.629
knee blew up like a coconut. I had to be helped

00:07:09.629 --> 00:07:14.410
off. And then from there, um, had, you know,

00:07:14.410 --> 00:07:18.529
getting ACL surgery in 86 is way different than

00:07:18.529 --> 00:07:22.420
2026. So when you got it back then, that was

00:07:22.420 --> 00:07:24.980
it. I mean, you know, think about, you know,

00:07:24.980 --> 00:07:29.500
returning. But I got interested in how the PTs

00:07:29.500 --> 00:07:32.180
and the athletic trainers at my local clinic,

00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:34.600
what they were doing and how they helped me so

00:07:34.600 --> 00:07:36.740
that they let me shadow afterwards I was discharged.

00:07:37.220 --> 00:07:39.439
And fortunately for me, my football coach is

00:07:39.439 --> 00:07:42.019
also my guidance counselor in high school. And

00:07:42.019 --> 00:07:45.180
he got me into a student athletic trainer workshop

00:07:45.180 --> 00:07:47.819
at Northeastern University my junior summer.

00:07:48.279 --> 00:07:51.819
And that lit the fire ever since. So that was

00:07:51.819 --> 00:07:55.199
great. And then I went on, got my bachelor's

00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:57.079
degree, Colby Sawyer College in New Hampshire,

00:07:57.220 --> 00:08:00.399
and then got my master's right afterwards, Springfield

00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:05.160
College. And then I went off and I taught at

00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:07.839
Plymouth State University. And then I went to

00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:09.740
Rhode Island where I worked in a clinic in the

00:08:09.740 --> 00:08:11.980
morning and a high school in the afternoon for

00:08:11.980 --> 00:08:14.699
a couple of years. And then I actually went out

00:08:14.699 --> 00:08:19.259
Midwest to Topeka, Kansas for ice hockey. So

00:08:19.259 --> 00:08:21.139
I was my league ice hockey athletic trainer,

00:08:21.319 --> 00:08:24.019
all bus traveling anywhere from nine hours to

00:08:24.019 --> 00:08:27.560
26 hours on a bus traveling across the Midwest

00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:30.339
and the South. Yeah. One of the most brutal ones

00:08:30.339 --> 00:08:32.799
was we had a back, we had a home and home with

00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:35.220
Indianapolis on New Year's Eve, New Year's Eve

00:08:35.220 --> 00:08:39.840
day. So they played in our barn and then we,

00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:43.330
you know, it was New Year's Eve. Basically, everyone

00:08:43.330 --> 00:08:47.190
just got back on the bus later on after having

00:08:47.190 --> 00:08:49.230
a few for celebrating New Year's and then went

00:08:49.230 --> 00:08:51.029
and played their barn and then came back nine

00:08:51.029 --> 00:08:55.529
hours after that. So that was typical. And then

00:08:55.529 --> 00:08:59.169
so after that, I moved back east to Long Island

00:08:59.169 --> 00:09:01.870
to the U .S. Merchant Marine Academy, where I

00:09:01.870 --> 00:09:07.309
was an athletic trainer instructor there. I got

00:09:07.309 --> 00:09:11.309
engaged as well and then moved to Berkshire School,

00:09:11.409 --> 00:09:13.570
where I am now in Sheffield Match, which is a

00:09:13.570 --> 00:09:16.429
private boarding school, co -ed 9 through 12.

00:09:17.049 --> 00:09:21.110
And it's about 420 students. And I'm in my 25th

00:09:21.110 --> 00:09:25.049
year. I was also assistant AD for 15 years and

00:09:25.049 --> 00:09:27.769
now moved over to the campus safety side as well.

00:09:27.850 --> 00:09:30.529
So I'm associate director of campus safety and

00:09:30.529 --> 00:09:34.360
still the head athletic trainer. Going all the

00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:36.960
way back to your mother, because I've got some

00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:38.580
numerous questions I want to talk about youth

00:09:38.580 --> 00:09:41.259
athletes and your unique perspective that you

00:09:41.259 --> 00:09:44.960
have. But with your mother, what has been the

00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:47.580
conversation you've had with her as far as the

00:09:47.580 --> 00:09:50.779
evolution or devolution of physical education

00:09:50.779 --> 00:09:58.679
in schools? I think it's more on the devolution.

00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:04.320
I think part of it, it just... Less emphasis

00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:08.620
on just physical education and interaction. Overall,

00:10:08.899 --> 00:10:12.139
budget obviously always plays a role from place

00:10:12.139 --> 00:10:18.639
to place. I think fortunately, what happened

00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:21.820
in my mom's situation was one of her fellow teachers

00:10:21.820 --> 00:10:23.779
and good friends worked his way up to become

00:10:23.779 --> 00:10:27.899
principal. So she not just friend, but he saw

00:10:27.899 --> 00:10:31.480
the importance of physical education. Plus, you

00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:33.679
have middle school kids. You do not want middle

00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:36.220
school kids just sitting around all day either.

00:10:36.860 --> 00:10:40.019
You got to burn one percent of that energy somehow

00:10:40.019 --> 00:10:43.399
that they have. But I mean, fortunately, I mean,

00:10:43.460 --> 00:10:46.860
obviously, obviously, you know, budgets happen

00:10:46.860 --> 00:10:49.080
everywhere. But I think overall culture, you

00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:53.559
see more de -evolution and not seeing what came

00:10:53.559 --> 00:10:55.740
with evolution. It's not just going out and playing.

00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:58.080
It's the motor skills, the teamwork, the communication

00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:01.190
parts that, you know. people from the outside

00:11:01.190 --> 00:11:04.769
don't really see sometimes. I had a guy on the

00:11:04.769 --> 00:11:08.029
show, we became friends now, but his name's Doug

00:11:08.029 --> 00:11:10.909
Orchard. And he wrote, excuse me, he made a documentary

00:11:10.909 --> 00:11:14.009
called The Motivation Factor. And it detailed

00:11:14.009 --> 00:11:18.240
La Sierra High School in the 60s. And they had

00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:21.080
created, I think it was based on a Russian system,

00:11:21.259 --> 00:11:24.899
kind of almost like a belt system for PE. So

00:11:24.899 --> 00:11:27.700
it was different colored gym shorts and the kids

00:11:27.700 --> 00:11:30.000
would work in groups and you'd start, you know,

00:11:30.019 --> 00:11:31.740
whatever. I'm sure you probably tested into a

00:11:31.740 --> 00:11:34.779
group. But then as you work through, you know,

00:11:34.820 --> 00:11:37.220
your physical fitness and your strength training,

00:11:37.419 --> 00:11:41.440
you could then test up. And it was such an incredible

00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:44.519
philosophy because the top tier, I think it was

00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:47.639
the gold shorts, I forget the color. any of those

00:11:47.639 --> 00:11:50.679
young men in this case could have been on the

00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:52.759
front of muscle and fitness. I mean, they were

00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:55.820
in incredible shape. And so you take wrestling,

00:11:55.940 --> 00:11:58.860
football, basketball, if they wanted to play

00:11:58.860 --> 00:12:00.500
that sport, the conditioning side was already

00:12:00.500 --> 00:12:02.539
done. Now you just have to learn the skills for

00:12:02.539 --> 00:12:05.620
the sport. But I think where it's even more important

00:12:05.620 --> 00:12:09.259
is the clarinet player, the chess player was

00:12:09.259 --> 00:12:12.799
also in great shape. So the whole school, no

00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:15.830
matter what their passion was, worked as a team.

00:12:15.909 --> 00:12:17.850
And so it wasn't just their physical fitness,

00:12:17.950 --> 00:12:20.230
it was their grades, there was like almost zero

00:12:20.230 --> 00:12:23.110
bullying going on. So as you alluded to that,

00:12:23.149 --> 00:12:26.110
not just the actual health of the individual,

00:12:26.190 --> 00:12:28.950
but it was the holistic child and their education

00:12:28.950 --> 00:12:33.269
all saw this uptick. And it was dismantled in

00:12:33.269 --> 00:12:38.110
the 60s or 70s, I forget. And there was a school

00:12:38.110 --> 00:12:41.549
in California that tried to revive it recently.

00:12:41.669 --> 00:12:43.929
And then when COVID hit, it got dismantled and

00:12:43.929 --> 00:12:46.370
that was it. But it's so heartbreaking because

00:12:46.370 --> 00:12:50.330
we have this example of why PE programs are so

00:12:50.330 --> 00:12:53.490
important and that shared suffering and all these

00:12:53.490 --> 00:12:57.289
elements. And there's so much opposition now.

00:12:57.389 --> 00:12:58.929
And as you mentioned, funding, well, that's so

00:12:58.929 --> 00:13:01.950
short -sighted because if you proactively invest

00:13:01.950 --> 00:13:04.289
in the health of our children, I mean, the savings

00:13:04.289 --> 00:13:06.950
for that child's entire life are innumerable.

00:13:07.939 --> 00:13:10.059
Exactly. I couldn't agree with you more on that.

00:13:10.700 --> 00:13:13.039
But I think just personally in this day and age,

00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.159
like if we ever went to that colored system,

00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:19.700
well, we'd get, you know, everyone needs a trophy.

00:13:19.820 --> 00:13:21.840
How come they're not in this color? My, you know,

00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:24.679
just like the way it is with, you know, outside

00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:27.019
club sports and what the parents are paying for.

00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:29.259
And that's a whole nother discussion, but you

00:13:29.259 --> 00:13:31.600
see what I'm getting at. Yeah. Well, while we're

00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:33.480
on that, then this is a good, good place to have

00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:36.559
this conversation. And so. Firstly, I've told

00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:39.759
the story a lot, but it needs to be told to explain,

00:13:39.899 --> 00:13:41.960
you know, where I'm coming from. When I first

00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:45.559
moved to America, after a few years, I kept seeing

00:13:45.559 --> 00:13:48.620
the same kind of individual, which would be a

00:13:48.620 --> 00:13:51.460
kind of deconditioned American male, like late

00:13:51.460 --> 00:13:54.399
20s, early 30s. And, you know, they always had

00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:56.440
their Uncle Rico story. Well, I could have, would

00:13:56.440 --> 00:13:58.620
have, should have if it wasn't for my ACL, my,

00:13:58.740 --> 00:14:01.200
you know, labrum, whatever it was that ended

00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:04.990
there. soon to be professional career and after

00:14:04.990 --> 00:14:08.009
a while you know it went to kind of well what

00:14:08.009 --> 00:14:11.669
are we doing to our children in high school and

00:14:11.669 --> 00:14:14.889
college because it wasn't like i got hurt but

00:14:14.889 --> 00:14:17.269
now i still play you know a local league it was

00:14:17.269 --> 00:14:19.529
like i got hurt and now i play nothing at all

00:14:19.529 --> 00:14:22.830
and now they're they're very deconditioned comparatively

00:14:22.830 --> 00:14:26.700
in in europe at least when i was young You didn't

00:14:26.700 --> 00:14:28.860
have a high, high level of performance unless

00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:31.320
you were just, you know, groomed to be an elite

00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:33.120
football player, for example. The rest of us

00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:36.299
just played. So when you graduated school, you

00:14:36.299 --> 00:14:38.600
kept playing sports, pub leagues and local leagues

00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:41.200
and whatever it was. So I felt like there was

00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:44.159
a continuance of the love of movement and sport

00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:46.799
and fitness was kind of just ingrained in everyday

00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:51.259
life. With the coaches and the high level athletes

00:14:51.259 --> 00:14:53.639
that I've had on here, I always kind of put the

00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:58.220
question to them. I feel like in a lot of these

00:14:58.220 --> 00:15:02.639
areas, the performance and the competitions,

00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:06.940
the first places in some cases become more important

00:15:06.940 --> 00:15:10.539
than the longevity and well -being of their student

00:15:10.539 --> 00:15:12.700
athletes. And I think that's a dangerous place

00:15:12.700 --> 00:15:16.940
if that's not addressed. What have you seen over

00:15:16.940 --> 00:15:20.519
your career as far as that, the performance versus

00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:23.059
the wellness and longevity of each individual

00:15:23.059 --> 00:15:30.470
player? Oh, yeah. You hit the bullseye on that

00:15:30.470 --> 00:15:34.230
one. I think it's more just about making their

00:15:34.230 --> 00:15:38.350
own highlight reel to promote their their brand,

00:15:38.549 --> 00:15:41.789
you know, so they can get that scholarship or

00:15:41.789 --> 00:15:44.970
that spot on that travel team. I think that's

00:15:44.970 --> 00:15:48.190
where it's just, you know, they don't like when

00:15:48.190 --> 00:15:49.950
you see a student's highlight film, whatever

00:15:49.950 --> 00:15:52.889
they put, you don't see the score. You just see

00:15:52.889 --> 00:15:56.000
them performing. at their best you know that's

00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:58.320
what they they don't talk about the wins and

00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:01.299
losses unless it's you know like a state championship

00:16:01.299 --> 00:16:03.360
or a national championship or something like

00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:05.799
that that's about it other than that you're just

00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:08.200
going to see their highlights plain and simple

00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:11.059
that's what they want get in front of the camera

00:16:12.139 --> 00:16:14.080
So what about I mean, as far as the organization,

00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:15.799
I'll give you a couple of examples. You've got,

00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:18.399
you know, the parent living vicariously through

00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:20.580
their child. That's the baseball pitcher and

00:16:20.580 --> 00:16:22.960
they're pitching, you know, a school and they're

00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.120
pitching with their club team. Then they're doing

00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:26.940
travel ball and they're doing strength and conditioning

00:16:26.940 --> 00:16:29.899
classes. And at 15, they blow their shoulder

00:16:29.899 --> 00:16:32.519
out. Or you've got, you know, the high school,

00:16:32.659 --> 00:16:37.740
you know, the coach and they've got a. linebacker

00:16:37.740 --> 00:16:40.200
and they're discouraging them from losing weight

00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:41.620
they're like we don't want you to be lighter

00:16:41.620 --> 00:16:44.460
come on we need you to be a brick wall that that's

00:16:44.460 --> 00:16:47.279
the kind of thing like there's this this organizational

00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:51.279
element of wanting the children to to train and

00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:54.919
train and win and win and win um and then once

00:16:54.919 --> 00:16:56.960
they do get hurt you know there's an element

00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:58.820
of being discarded because there's another kid

00:16:58.820 --> 00:17:02.200
waiting to fill that spot anyway yeah i think

00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:05.299
as an athletic trainer I personally consider

00:17:05.299 --> 00:17:08.819
it my duty to have them see beyond the leaf on

00:17:08.819 --> 00:17:12.940
the branch in the forest. You know, they're seeing

00:17:12.940 --> 00:17:17.059
this right now. I want to see them 20 years from

00:17:17.059 --> 00:17:20.380
now, you know, walking down the aisle, playing

00:17:20.380 --> 00:17:23.539
with their kids, not losing a piece of their

00:17:23.539 --> 00:17:26.740
memory just for this game that they're not going

00:17:26.740 --> 00:17:29.799
to remember the score of, you know, even if they

00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:31.960
had a healthy brain, you know, I don't want to

00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:36.920
have them this permanent. uh, uh, glitch in their

00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:39.579
step, you know, you know, like permanent limp

00:17:39.579 --> 00:17:42.619
or, you know, bad arthritis in their shoulder.

00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:45.779
Cause they had, they had to keep going, you know,

00:17:45.779 --> 00:17:48.200
when I got to see the athlete from themselves.

00:17:49.140 --> 00:17:51.420
Yeah. Well, I think what I see is, you know,

00:17:51.460 --> 00:17:54.160
a lot of countries have incredible athletes,

00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:56.619
world champion athletes, and they don't train

00:17:56.619 --> 00:17:59.920
their kids the way that we do. And usually, again,

00:18:00.140 --> 00:18:02.599
when you want adults to continue being active,

00:18:02.859 --> 00:18:05.720
you know, if you burn them out on a sport, you're

00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:08.640
going to create a dislike of activity, of sport,

00:18:08.779 --> 00:18:11.099
of training, etc. But if you can be, and I hear

00:18:11.099 --> 00:18:12.759
this a lot, you know, the multi -sport athletes

00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:15.799
seem to be pretty resilient physically and mentally.

00:18:16.099 --> 00:18:19.720
But this single, you know, specialty. that we

00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:21.680
kind of put on a pedestal at the moment seems

00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:24.400
detrimental not only for their, as you alluded

00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:26.259
to, their brain health, their musculoskeletal

00:18:26.259 --> 00:18:29.400
health, but also the mental health side of burning

00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:31.140
someone out to the point they don't even want

00:18:31.140 --> 00:18:36.680
to see a pitch anymore. Exactly. I had one of

00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:40.539
our former students here, she became to be a

00:18:40.539 --> 00:18:43.420
multi -time Olympian on the women's ice hockey

00:18:43.420 --> 00:18:46.319
team. And she always said the best thing I did

00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:49.730
was... to make me a better athlete was to put

00:18:49.730 --> 00:18:52.309
the skates down for a while, just totally walk

00:18:52.309 --> 00:18:55.849
away from it, go do something else. I go, I should

00:18:55.849 --> 00:18:58.589
make a poster of that with her face saying with

00:18:58.589 --> 00:19:01.630
her Olympic medals underneath it. And how many,

00:19:01.630 --> 00:19:05.230
you know, how many Olympics she's been to and

00:19:05.230 --> 00:19:09.089
put that right there. Look, see, look, it's okay.

00:19:09.890 --> 00:19:13.450
Do something else. Even if it's nothing like

00:19:13.450 --> 00:19:15.710
go put on flip -flops and hang out at the beach.

00:19:15.869 --> 00:19:20.049
You're just. Go read a book, take a walk. It's

00:19:20.049 --> 00:19:22.630
good. It's okay. Mentally, it's going to be better

00:19:22.630 --> 00:19:27.230
for you. Yeah, 100%. I've been watching a show

00:19:27.230 --> 00:19:29.250
called Welcome to Wrexham. I don't know if you've

00:19:29.250 --> 00:19:34.329
heard of it. Oh, every episode. So you'll know

00:19:34.329 --> 00:19:36.930
the one. I don't want to go too deep into it

00:19:36.930 --> 00:19:39.869
and explain the context of this particular episode,

00:19:39.990 --> 00:19:42.329
but it was the one I just finished. I just finished

00:19:42.329 --> 00:19:45.769
the series. But it's a very important game that

00:19:45.769 --> 00:19:49.509
they're about to play. And one of the two American

00:19:49.509 --> 00:19:52.490
actors who bought the team is going to give them

00:19:52.490 --> 00:19:54.490
a pep talk. And they're basically getting them

00:19:54.490 --> 00:19:57.769
to visualize back when they were little. And

00:19:57.769 --> 00:19:59.869
it wasn't even competitive little. It was when

00:19:59.869 --> 00:20:02.109
you were small and you played the sport just

00:20:02.109 --> 00:20:04.789
because you loved playing the sport. And I thought

00:20:04.789 --> 00:20:07.589
that was such a beautiful analogy compared to

00:20:07.589 --> 00:20:09.789
what we're talking about now. You might be in

00:20:09.789 --> 00:20:11.869
high school or college or a professional athlete,

00:20:12.049 --> 00:20:15.619
but... if you lose sight of that simple love

00:20:15.619 --> 00:20:17.960
of playing, then there's a disconnect. But if

00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:20.380
you can tap back into the why, why do you even

00:20:20.380 --> 00:20:23.859
play sport? And like you said, that then goes

00:20:23.859 --> 00:20:26.640
to, well, I love skating, but I'm kind of getting

00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:28.940
burnt out. So I'm going to go play football for

00:20:28.940 --> 00:20:31.839
a while or basketball or tennis or pickleball

00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:35.319
or whatever it is, or just walk my dog. But that's

00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:38.099
it, revisiting that love of movement, that love

00:20:38.099 --> 00:20:40.519
of sport as a child. I think that... If you could

00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:42.640
put that in everyone's head and forget getting

00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:46.819
them away from weight loss and what's your perfect

00:20:46.819 --> 00:20:48.880
physique and just get back into it. Do you remember

00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:50.880
when you just liked playing because you were

00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:53.440
a child? That was it. If we could refine that

00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:56.539
in our 40s, 50s, 60s, I mean, we'd have such

00:20:56.539 --> 00:20:59.990
a healthy population. Oh yeah. I couldn't agree

00:20:59.990 --> 00:21:03.269
more. Like the terms I hear more and more like

00:21:03.269 --> 00:21:06.230
for kids who are division one athletes or who

00:21:06.230 --> 00:21:08.210
were division one athletes and they come back,

00:21:08.349 --> 00:21:11.009
they always say it's a business. Like I'm just

00:21:11.009 --> 00:21:14.130
around those people. Like they're not putting

00:21:14.130 --> 00:21:17.109
down their teammates, but you can hear the urgency

00:21:17.109 --> 00:21:19.210
in their voice. Like I just want to go do something

00:21:19.210 --> 00:21:21.230
else or hang out with someone totally different.

00:21:21.730 --> 00:21:25.089
But there's just such a time demand. I'm just

00:21:25.089 --> 00:21:26.950
picking that one avenue division one athletes,

00:21:27.009 --> 00:21:30.019
but. That's the constant story I'm hearing more

00:21:30.019 --> 00:21:35.079
and more now. What about the pressure that scholarships

00:21:35.079 --> 00:21:38.140
put on our children? And we'll stay with athletic

00:21:38.140 --> 00:21:41.319
scholarship. My son was becoming a very good

00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:43.619
track runner. He had a sub five minute mile,

00:21:43.740 --> 00:21:46.440
which is obviously not going to secure the highest

00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:48.759
of scholarships. But he was his learning. I mean,

00:21:48.779 --> 00:21:51.980
his improvement curve was pretty steep and he

00:21:51.980 --> 00:21:54.240
got a kind of overuse injury and really did kind

00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:57.130
of get mentally burned out as well. and uh you

00:21:57.130 --> 00:21:58.789
know stepped away now he's a volleyball player

00:21:58.789 --> 00:22:01.910
exactly what we're talking about but what i realized

00:22:01.910 --> 00:22:04.049
is a lot of the pressure he put on himself there

00:22:04.049 --> 00:22:05.970
was none from us we were like look we can do

00:22:05.970 --> 00:22:07.930
you know grants and loans and all the things

00:22:07.930 --> 00:22:09.670
you know community college you don't have to

00:22:09.670 --> 00:22:12.069
get a scholarship air quotes to go to school

00:22:12.069 --> 00:22:16.210
um but they i saw them put so much pressure on

00:22:16.829 --> 00:22:20.089
a scholarship. And again, that then is a disconnect.

00:22:20.150 --> 00:22:23.750
It's an external reason versus a love of the

00:22:23.750 --> 00:22:25.849
sport. So he went in loving running. And by the

00:22:25.849 --> 00:22:28.109
time he left, he, you know, he, he'd lost that.

00:22:28.369 --> 00:22:31.069
So how much pressure are scholarships putting

00:22:31.069 --> 00:22:33.069
on our children that are in sports at the moment?

00:22:34.769 --> 00:22:39.049
Um, I, I think it's quite a bit, especially because

00:22:39.049 --> 00:22:41.009
not only doing their high school team, they're

00:22:41.009 --> 00:22:44.750
doing a travel team. And, you know, that's usually

00:22:45.579 --> 00:22:49.420
More times than not is when the college coaches

00:22:49.420 --> 00:22:51.220
or whoever else, that's when they're seeing that

00:22:51.220 --> 00:22:53.539
person is in bigger tournaments or whatever,

00:22:53.700 --> 00:22:56.680
and they're coming back to school with that pressure

00:22:56.680 --> 00:22:59.799
like, hey, I'm in heavy contact with so -and

00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:03.599
-so, and they're keeping that on. Oh, yeah, they're

00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:06.240
trying to be a kid and do their grades and then

00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:11.930
get into college on top of all that. Yeah. Yeah,

00:23:11.950 --> 00:23:13.390
I think that's the thing. I mean, if you get

00:23:13.390 --> 00:23:15.210
it, you know, if you are that talented athlete

00:23:15.210 --> 00:23:17.750
and you put the work in, you know, that's fantastic.

00:23:17.990 --> 00:23:19.710
But I forget what they said, but it was something

00:23:19.710 --> 00:23:24.009
minute, like early single digit percentages of

00:23:24.009 --> 00:23:25.589
all these youth athletes that are actually going

00:23:25.589 --> 00:23:28.170
to secure a scholarship, full scholarship to

00:23:28.170 --> 00:23:31.990
a D1 school. So I'm not saying don't do it, but,

00:23:32.069 --> 00:23:34.369
you know, there are so many other avenues that

00:23:34.369 --> 00:23:36.430
you can enjoy playing sports. You can compete

00:23:36.430 --> 00:23:40.009
for your school. but you don't have this gnawing

00:23:40.009 --> 00:23:42.630
pressure that if I don't become this elite athlete,

00:23:42.789 --> 00:23:46.109
then the rest of my future is ruined. Exactly.

00:23:46.609 --> 00:23:50.009
Yeah, just learn that, yeah, like you said, find

00:23:50.009 --> 00:23:53.390
another avenue. It may seem like a failure at

00:23:53.390 --> 00:23:56.650
this point and you let everyone down, but it's

00:23:56.650 --> 00:23:59.250
just going to help you point in a different,

00:23:59.309 --> 00:24:02.250
better direction. It doesn't happen. Absolutely.

00:24:02.829 --> 00:24:04.710
Well, I want to get to the fire side, but just

00:24:04.710 --> 00:24:06.829
staying on the AT area for a little bit longer.

00:24:06.990 --> 00:24:09.450
Sure. For people listening first, talk to me

00:24:09.450 --> 00:24:12.049
about the scope of practice of an athletic trainer.

00:24:12.990 --> 00:24:16.130
Sure. So obviously it's a little different from

00:24:16.130 --> 00:24:18.329
state to state, but being nationally certified,

00:24:18.549 --> 00:24:23.829
we evaluate, treat, rehab the injured athlete.

00:24:24.130 --> 00:24:27.869
We'll deal anything from cuts, scrapes, bruises,

00:24:28.089 --> 00:24:31.630
sprains and strains, and then all the way through

00:24:31.630 --> 00:24:35.289
concussion care from on the field to help with

00:24:35.289 --> 00:24:38.240
post -return. return to learn, return to play,

00:24:38.299 --> 00:24:40.900
you know, and then through post -surgical as

00:24:40.900 --> 00:24:44.440
well. I mean, we also have some first responder

00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:48.640
skills as well from collarboarding, CPR, just

00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:51.400
to name a few to be ready. It's kind of like

00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:54.539
if you took a PT and an EMT and smashed them

00:24:54.539 --> 00:24:56.619
together, you know, we're fortunate to have that

00:24:56.619 --> 00:24:58.799
hybrid set of skills to be ready to take care

00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:00.599
of the injured athlete in multiple situations.

00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:05.180
We know there's some that are kind of idiosyncratic

00:25:05.180 --> 00:25:09.339
when it comes to young athletes like sudden cardiac

00:25:09.339 --> 00:25:11.740
arrest. What are some of the most extreme things

00:25:11.740 --> 00:25:14.180
that you've had to interact or deal with in your

00:25:14.180 --> 00:25:19.519
career so far? Fortunately, I've never lost an

00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:23.920
athlete as past. One of my dear friends had to,

00:25:23.980 --> 00:25:26.759
and that was tough when he called me on that

00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:33.750
one. And I've seen definitely my share of broken

00:25:33.750 --> 00:25:40.089
bones, dislocated bones, very violent collisions,

00:25:40.329 --> 00:25:43.630
concussions. And what I mean by violent, I mean

00:25:43.630 --> 00:25:47.029
like just as soon as they hit the wall, the person,

00:25:47.089 --> 00:25:50.109
they were out. And that was pretty scary too.

00:25:51.829 --> 00:25:54.910
I had one I still remember is we were at an away

00:25:54.910 --> 00:25:58.299
football game. and the quarterback was rolling

00:25:58.299 --> 00:26:02.619
towards our sideline. So he was maybe five yards

00:26:02.619 --> 00:26:06.619
away from our sideline, and simultaneously got

00:26:06.619 --> 00:26:12.339
hit high -low. Oof. Yeah. So, I mean, the quarterback

00:26:12.339 --> 00:26:15.200
disappeared for a second because our guys hit

00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:17.519
him. And it wasn't anything, like, mean. Like,

00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:19.599
no one held him up, and the other one came across.

00:26:19.900 --> 00:26:23.599
It was like that. And they rolled off of him,

00:26:23.700 --> 00:26:29.160
and his leg was – open tip fit, just the sock

00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:31.980
was holding it there. Right. And as soon as our

00:26:31.980 --> 00:26:34.740
low guy rolled off, I ran on the field before

00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:38.880
the whistle blew and like, and I grabbed the

00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:40.319
quarterbacks, like the quarterback didn't even

00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:43.119
know what was going on. Like it even took the

00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:44.880
athletic train on the other side a minute, like

00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:47.660
to, you know, cause the, they were clearing out

00:26:47.660 --> 00:26:50.539
of the way. And I was, now I was like doing this

00:26:50.539 --> 00:26:53.480
to him, like, like trying to give him the X for

00:26:53.480 --> 00:26:56.509
a fracture. and then then to call the ambulance

00:26:56.509 --> 00:26:59.609
and then i just basically bear hugged his arm

00:26:59.609 --> 00:27:02.150
his arms right using my arms to bear hug him

00:27:02.150 --> 00:27:05.289
and then hold his leg and just talk to him until

00:27:05.289 --> 00:27:07.769
you know we got everything in place and got things

00:27:07.769 --> 00:27:11.029
going like people even know what happened right

00:27:11.029 --> 00:27:14.210
afterwards so i mean that's one i always remember

00:27:14.210 --> 00:27:15.990
right away i mean it was just a sock that was

00:27:15.990 --> 00:27:18.609
just you know keeping it from showing everyone

00:27:18.609 --> 00:27:22.900
what was going on What about the conversation

00:27:22.900 --> 00:27:26.200
as far as concussions and TBIs that you've seen

00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:27.920
throughout your career, the kind of evolution

00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:34.539
of that? Well, I'm going to go way back and use

00:27:34.539 --> 00:27:38.539
a Florida Gator for this. The immortal Tim Tebow.

00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:46.000
People who remember, when he got knocked out

00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:50.269
on national TV, that was one of the best. tools

00:27:50.269 --> 00:27:54.470
to use as an athletic trainer only because, I

00:27:54.470 --> 00:27:55.890
mean, he was taking care of right. You know,

00:27:55.910 --> 00:27:57.990
they didn't try to do the snoring salts and slap

00:27:57.990 --> 00:28:00.410
them back in the game. You know, I think that

00:28:00.410 --> 00:28:04.650
was the start of better conversations of, of

00:28:04.650 --> 00:28:07.970
head care. And obviously Chris Nowitzki has been

00:28:07.970 --> 00:28:13.650
huge in that and in head games. And going from

00:28:13.650 --> 00:28:15.829
there, I think there's definitely a giant evolution

00:28:15.829 --> 00:28:19.009
of taking care of the athlete's brain beyond

00:28:19.009 --> 00:28:23.109
the game. And it's made conversations easier

00:28:23.109 --> 00:28:27.009
and easier with parents. So I think that's been

00:28:27.009 --> 00:28:29.730
great. I mean, we do baseline testing here. My

00:28:29.730 --> 00:28:31.710
coworker, Meredith, who's also another athletic

00:28:31.710 --> 00:28:33.569
trainer, she's our concussion care coordinator

00:28:33.569 --> 00:28:38.130
here. And she helps coordinate. We have a doctor

00:28:38.130 --> 00:28:40.769
on campus, helps coordinate the care academically

00:28:40.769 --> 00:28:44.789
in the dorms, return to play. So I can at least

00:28:44.789 --> 00:28:47.569
say our students are taking care from the moment

00:28:47.569 --> 00:28:50.769
it happens. they're fully released back to fully

00:28:50.769 --> 00:28:54.970
return to play. So I, I, you know, I think that

00:28:54.970 --> 00:28:58.890
Tebow hit lit the spark and it just been, it's

00:28:58.890 --> 00:29:01.970
been getting better there since like having conversations

00:29:01.970 --> 00:29:04.789
with parents are just like, okay, what, you know,

00:29:04.809 --> 00:29:07.930
sometimes we have to explain our return to play

00:29:07.930 --> 00:29:10.150
protocol. You know, they don't get it. They just

00:29:10.150 --> 00:29:12.069
think, oh, they're feeling good in school. Now

00:29:12.069 --> 00:29:14.470
they can go. They go, no, we got to do a few

00:29:14.470 --> 00:29:16.950
steps. This is the reason why. I think once we

00:29:16.950 --> 00:29:19.799
explain the reason why. you know so we don't

00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:23.079
have setbacks and making sure and then then we

00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:26.140
can release them i you know pushback has gotten

00:29:26.140 --> 00:29:29.819
less and less and less which is phenomenal that's

00:29:29.819 --> 00:29:32.900
great to hear i've got a friend toby who is an

00:29:32.900 --> 00:29:34.740
athletic trainer he's worked with uf actually

00:29:34.740 --> 00:29:38.690
he's in gainesville um and uh One of the things

00:29:38.690 --> 00:29:40.750
that he was extremely passionate about, and I

00:29:40.750 --> 00:29:41.990
think we did the interview a couple of years

00:29:41.990 --> 00:29:46.009
ago now, but it was hyperthermia. So, you know,

00:29:46.049 --> 00:29:49.589
overheating athletes, you know, and again, we're

00:29:49.589 --> 00:29:51.390
talking old school, the two -a -days in the middle

00:29:51.390 --> 00:29:54.609
of the sun. But how important it was to have

00:29:54.609 --> 00:29:58.549
a version of like a cold plunge at hand for that

00:29:58.549 --> 00:30:01.710
kind of athlete. Talk to me about that. Sure.

00:30:01.829 --> 00:30:05.230
So I can say here in New England, I mean, obviously

00:30:05.230 --> 00:30:06.410
we don't have to worry about the temperatures

00:30:06.410 --> 00:30:11.150
like we do in Florida. We now have a weather

00:30:11.150 --> 00:30:14.849
station on campus that does wet bulb measurements

00:30:14.849 --> 00:30:18.750
for us. But I also go out to the turf, too, because

00:30:18.750 --> 00:30:21.410
that's a whole different monster as well when

00:30:21.410 --> 00:30:24.289
it gets hot. And we've had canceled games early

00:30:24.289 --> 00:30:29.450
in September because we just can't keep up with

00:30:29.450 --> 00:30:32.549
it. Or if it becomes later in the springtime.

00:30:33.940 --> 00:30:36.359
We have water breaks. We just talk to the ref.

00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:38.079
We go, hey, every 10 minutes we're going to hit

00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:40.599
the horn. And they're just like, good. They're

00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:42.900
fine with it. Coaches are fine with it. You know,

00:30:42.940 --> 00:30:47.259
we bring out some – we have some tents that we

00:30:47.259 --> 00:30:49.619
break out. And, you know, it becomes like that.

00:30:50.319 --> 00:30:52.720
For turf, we have soccer, field hockey, lacrosse

00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:54.720
in there. So depending on the game, you know,

00:30:54.759 --> 00:30:56.940
we'll just adjust it. And, you know, the teams

00:30:56.940 --> 00:30:59.660
are great. You know, everyone's on the same page.

00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:03.039
But yeah, overall, and then we also, I do have

00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:07.160
a 300 gallon like big trough pool that we fill

00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:09.720
when we do have, you know, we're not using it

00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:11.859
for the kids are not using it for ice bath. We'll

00:31:11.859 --> 00:31:14.759
have it filled up for hot days and the ice ready

00:31:14.759 --> 00:31:18.519
to go right there if necessary. What about the

00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:20.059
other end of the scale, which we don't really

00:31:20.059 --> 00:31:21.900
have to worry about here in Florida? What about

00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:26.369
hypothermia? Oh. When I'm looking out at the

00:31:26.369 --> 00:31:28.869
foot and a half that's outside our camp. Exactly.

00:31:29.349 --> 00:31:36.809
So we have a ski team, obviously. Our AD coordinates

00:31:36.809 --> 00:31:38.670
with the mountain, you know, because it's their

00:31:38.670 --> 00:31:40.470
call because obviously their weather's a little

00:31:40.470 --> 00:31:43.369
different. And, you know, they won't have practices

00:31:43.369 --> 00:31:45.609
or we won't send. We also have kids that just

00:31:45.609 --> 00:31:47.769
do recreational skiing. We'll cancel the bus.

00:31:49.190 --> 00:31:52.650
As far as kids getting around campus, you know,

00:31:52.650 --> 00:31:54.680
we. The best we can do is tell them to layer

00:31:54.680 --> 00:31:56.680
up, you know, because they still have to get

00:31:56.680 --> 00:31:59.460
around to classes. But if it gets bad enough,

00:31:59.559 --> 00:32:02.539
we will put a shelter in place alert out, like

00:32:02.539 --> 00:32:05.660
saying, hey, you know, after dinner, that's it.

00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:07.920
You're going to have to stay in your dorms or

00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:10.859
so forth. And, you know, just deal with it as

00:32:10.859 --> 00:32:13.740
we come. Like this past snowstorm we had obviously

00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:16.079
came through Sunday, but we had to have like

00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:19.049
my second snow day ever. in 25 years here at

00:32:19.049 --> 00:32:21.750
Berkshire. It was more giving our maintenance

00:32:21.750 --> 00:32:25.069
department time to catch up, clear the walkways,

00:32:25.130 --> 00:32:27.529
clear the roads, just so it's safe enough for

00:32:27.529 --> 00:32:29.470
everyone. Because it's still snowing through

00:32:29.470 --> 00:32:33.470
a good part of Monday as well. One more area

00:32:33.470 --> 00:32:36.930
before we go to the fireside. You mentioned campus

00:32:36.930 --> 00:32:40.289
security. What is the philosophy in your school?

00:32:40.369 --> 00:32:42.410
There's so many different conversations about,

00:32:42.589 --> 00:32:44.509
you know, especially when you're talking about

00:32:44.509 --> 00:32:46.509
the worst case scenario, the shootings that we've

00:32:46.509 --> 00:32:49.450
seen on so many of our educational facilities.

00:32:50.150 --> 00:32:53.250
You know, you have the law enforcement embedded.

00:32:53.430 --> 00:32:55.930
You have armed teachers. There's all kinds of

00:32:55.930 --> 00:32:58.430
different conversations. Which one do you guys

00:32:58.430 --> 00:33:04.349
lean into in your school? Sure. So we had a swatting

00:33:04.349 --> 00:33:08.569
incident a little while back. unfortunately,

00:33:08.690 --> 00:33:11.910
and we had to go into lockdown. But we are part

00:33:11.910 --> 00:33:18.750
of the run, hide, fight method. So we just locked

00:33:18.750 --> 00:33:21.670
down our local police enforcement with a few

00:33:21.670 --> 00:33:25.009
other local towns came in, you know, and went

00:33:25.009 --> 00:33:27.750
through building through building. Obviously,

00:33:27.829 --> 00:33:31.009
it was false. It didn't come on campus. It was

00:33:31.009 --> 00:33:34.250
way off campus. And so I guess the FBI are involved.

00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:38.240
in that method. But yeah, that was quite scary.

00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:43.380
And being part of, you know, our critical incident

00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:47.200
team during that moment was intense and, you

00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:50.440
know, quite stressful for a lot of students and

00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:54.740
adults. Just so I do have to dip into the fire

00:33:54.740 --> 00:33:58.220
department on this part. We did recently get

00:33:58.220 --> 00:34:02.339
ballistic gear. Is that? and helmets if ever

00:34:02.339 --> 00:34:05.099
needed. We have, you know, a ton of stop the

00:34:05.099 --> 00:34:07.720
bleed stuff ready to go with active shooter kits.

00:34:07.859 --> 00:34:11.400
And so do the police if ever needed. I've also

00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:16.960
done a tactical casualty care course as well.

00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:19.900
So I learned how to, you know, go right behind

00:34:19.900 --> 00:34:22.199
the police as well, if needed, if I ever had

00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:25.059
to be part of a rescue team to do that. And I've

00:34:25.059 --> 00:34:28.849
been through a few drills as that as well. So,

00:34:29.010 --> 00:34:31.929
yeah, right now, just run, hide, fight is what

00:34:31.929 --> 00:34:34.929
we do. There's no armed police on campus. We

00:34:34.929 --> 00:34:37.449
have campus safety drives around and they have

00:34:37.449 --> 00:34:41.289
their duties as well. But we leave the guns to

00:34:41.289 --> 00:34:44.849
the trained police officers. Gotcha. All right.

00:34:44.849 --> 00:34:48.289
Well, let's move to the fire service. When did

00:34:48.289 --> 00:34:51.909
you even think about becoming a volunteer? Sure.

00:34:52.250 --> 00:34:56.920
So when I. First happened here at Berkshire School.

00:34:57.880 --> 00:35:03.099
Early in my career, my head of school was big

00:35:03.099 --> 00:35:06.659
into community service. And he always thought

00:35:06.659 --> 00:35:08.500
that this place should not just be a bubble,

00:35:08.599 --> 00:35:11.239
be part of the community. So that's what kind

00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:15.059
of sparked my interest. And I got a flyer in

00:35:15.059 --> 00:35:18.699
the mail about the local EMT course. So just

00:35:18.699 --> 00:35:20.960
so you know, our EMS is separate from our fire.

00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:24.880
Our EMS is a private company around here. And

00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:29.659
so I decided to take that leap and do my four

00:35:29.659 --> 00:35:33.659
months of coursework and became an EMT. And then

00:35:33.659 --> 00:35:37.360
I started doing night shifts, 6 p .m. to 6 a

00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:40.760
.m. on every Monday night for about 12 years.

00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:45.860
And about three or four years in my EMT, I decided

00:35:45.860 --> 00:35:49.099
I wanted to push myself farther and joined our

00:35:49.099 --> 00:35:53.150
Sheffield Fire Department. And yeah, it's been

00:35:53.150 --> 00:35:55.409
great since I've worked myself up from firefighter

00:35:55.409 --> 00:35:59.610
to lieutenant and now a captain. So talk to me

00:35:59.610 --> 00:36:01.489
about the dynamic of the department, you know,

00:36:01.489 --> 00:36:03.590
and who do you have around as far as career?

00:36:04.510 --> 00:36:10.190
Oh, sure. So ours is 100 % volunteer. I mean,

00:36:10.210 --> 00:36:13.989
only a chief gets a town stipend. So there's

00:36:13.989 --> 00:36:19.030
about 25, 30 members. And we all have pagers

00:36:19.030 --> 00:36:21.510
on our hips and we have the I am responding app

00:36:21.510 --> 00:36:24.949
on as well. That's hooked the dispatch. So and

00:36:24.949 --> 00:36:28.630
we practice once a week, Monday, sorry, Wednesday

00:36:28.630 --> 00:36:31.710
nights. And, you know, each night, each Wednesday

00:36:31.710 --> 00:36:35.230
night is some kind of drill or skill. And then

00:36:35.230 --> 00:36:38.210
we have we set aside one Wednesday night. We

00:36:38.210 --> 00:36:40.090
have we all have dinner together and we have

00:36:40.090 --> 00:36:43.210
our monthly meeting. So I think that's also a

00:36:43.210 --> 00:36:46.130
great part of setting good culture. as well yeah

00:36:46.130 --> 00:36:48.230
i'm going to repeat that word a lot when we talk

00:36:48.230 --> 00:36:51.710
about the fire side so um but yeah that's the

00:36:51.710 --> 00:36:55.210
basis of it we have uh we have two engines a

00:36:55.210 --> 00:37:00.190
squad a tanker uh brush truck uh atvs because

00:37:00.190 --> 00:37:02.150
we're running near the appalachian trail and

00:37:02.150 --> 00:37:05.829
plenty of brush fires that go on we also have

00:37:05.829 --> 00:37:09.389
um we call car 31 which is our suv that we use

00:37:09.389 --> 00:37:13.039
for uh medical cause as well that's uh set up

00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:16.500
with all great greets medical stuff in there

00:37:16.500 --> 00:37:20.699
as well um and almost almost a mini ambulance

00:37:20.699 --> 00:37:25.159
without the meds so what is the population that

00:37:25.159 --> 00:37:28.000
you serve are you are you rural or are you kind

00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:33.320
of sorry it's only about 3 000 or so but it's

00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:37.099
like almost 40 square miles it's a lot of farming

00:37:37.789 --> 00:37:40.449
Okay, so you're a good example where volunteer

00:37:40.449 --> 00:37:43.050
fire services is more justified because you see

00:37:43.050 --> 00:37:46.130
a lot of the Northeast, like New Jersey, literally

00:37:46.130 --> 00:37:49.030
a densely populated suburban neighborhood and

00:37:49.030 --> 00:37:51.230
they have volunteer fire service, which I think,

00:37:51.230 --> 00:37:53.230
you know, those are the ones that maybe we need

00:37:53.230 --> 00:37:55.349
to help go into the career mode now because,

00:37:55.389 --> 00:37:57.349
I mean, they're running crazy amounts of calls.

00:37:57.989 --> 00:38:01.929
Yeah, and the two towns right next to us, one,

00:38:02.110 --> 00:38:05.199
they definitely have full -time. They have like

00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:08.780
two or three on during the day, but they're still

00:38:08.780 --> 00:38:11.880
volunteer. And then the other town actually has

00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:14.219
just switched over. They have one or two on during

00:38:14.219 --> 00:38:18.719
the day and their chief and then volunteer response

00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:23.679
at night as well. So as you first go in, talk

00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:25.820
to me about the front door. You've got the CMT

00:38:25.820 --> 00:38:28.199
background now. What was the training like? And

00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:30.019
then what's the frequency of calls that you had

00:38:30.019 --> 00:38:33.940
in your career at that point? So just EMS? Yeah.

00:38:34.500 --> 00:38:39.219
So the training, let's see, it was twice a week

00:38:39.219 --> 00:38:43.679
and then one Saturday a month. So, yeah, classes

00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:46.820
were about four hours apiece. Saturday was longer.

00:38:47.500 --> 00:38:50.519
Tests every day on every chapter, getting us

00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:53.179
ready for the, at that point, it wasn't national.

00:38:53.300 --> 00:38:56.159
It was just the state of mass before everyone

00:38:56.159 --> 00:38:59.480
switched over to national registry. So just getting

00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:02.699
us ready. Just honing our skills, making sure

00:39:02.699 --> 00:39:08.320
we got our steps down. And then after that, our

00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:11.519
first few years, we didn't have ALS. We were

00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:16.380
just a BLS place. And then slowly we worked ALS.

00:39:16.460 --> 00:39:21.139
They hired paramedics from another company to

00:39:21.139 --> 00:39:24.619
cover shifts. And then we just had paramedics

00:39:24.619 --> 00:39:29.429
full time with us. after that and just learning

00:39:29.429 --> 00:39:31.989
from them unfortunately a few of our paramedics

00:39:31.989 --> 00:39:35.809
knew what an athletic trainer was and so they

00:39:35.809 --> 00:39:38.369
got that i was able to do a few talks on concussions

00:39:38.369 --> 00:39:42.869
musculoskeletal injuries uh splinting so i i

00:39:42.869 --> 00:39:44.809
appreciate that that they leaned into my other

00:39:44.809 --> 00:39:47.389
set of skills when i was there and then even

00:39:47.389 --> 00:39:50.769
when i went on calls yeah it was an als but they

00:39:50.769 --> 00:39:53.489
kind of let me take the lead a little bit you

00:39:53.489 --> 00:39:55.789
know obviously they sometimes they needed the

00:39:55.789 --> 00:40:00.639
uh to relax the person, shall we say, or make

00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:02.119
them go to sleep because they're in so much pain.

00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:04.719
But just leaning into my ortho skills, I really

00:40:04.719 --> 00:40:06.699
appreciate that from a few of the paramedics

00:40:06.699 --> 00:40:10.340
that I rode with. So on the EMS side, what would

00:40:10.340 --> 00:40:12.559
some of the calls that you consider career calls?

00:40:16.360 --> 00:40:23.719
Oh, okay. Okay, two pop in my head. One, so...

00:40:24.639 --> 00:40:28.000
When you walk in our ambulance garage, there's

00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:30.480
a hallway and then there's the stairs to go upstairs.

00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:32.820
And I just put my bag right there. It was a little

00:40:32.820 --> 00:40:36.400
before 6 p .m. I put it down and our first call

00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:39.739
was a structure fire. So I literally just turned

00:40:39.739 --> 00:40:41.519
around the corner, logged in, turned around the

00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:44.400
corner, went with our paramedic. And it was just

00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:48.880
two minutes down the road. And it was a long

00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:52.019
kind of rectangular apartment, one floor apartments.

00:40:52.820 --> 00:40:57.920
And the thing that saved that apartment complex

00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:02.099
was it was Monday night, and that was the town

00:41:02.099 --> 00:41:04.840
they were in. It was their training night. So

00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:07.260
literally, they had every firefighter in the

00:41:07.260 --> 00:41:10.239
firehouse when that went off, when they were

00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:12.719
practicing. So that's what helped contain it.

00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:18.719
They pulled the two people out. The woman, I

00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:22.239
mean, she weighed about this much. So the firefighters

00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:24.619
took off with her. Our other ambulance crew was

00:41:24.619 --> 00:41:27.360
there. So they worked on her. We got the guy.

00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:30.179
He was kind of heavyset. His skin, unfortunately,

00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:34.940
was fluffing off in my hands. And we had to move

00:41:34.940 --> 00:41:39.719
him quite a bit out of the way. And so that started

00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:43.760
the night. And then we didn't sleep the whole

00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:47.860
12 -hour shift, us or the other crew. with other

00:41:47.860 --> 00:41:50.300
911 calls and then we had to transport the wife

00:41:50.300 --> 00:41:55.719
later uh who had severe burns and stuff and um

00:41:55.719 --> 00:42:01.360
what was the other part that really stuck to

00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:07.059
me that one oh so i mean we were just getting

00:42:07.059 --> 00:42:09.980
beaten left and right dms guys were just hammering

00:42:09.980 --> 00:42:12.920
the button Even if we like looked at the chair,

00:42:13.119 --> 00:42:15.719
you know, it was either the pager going off or

00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:17.920
the hospital calling us for a transport. It was

00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:21.360
just one of those nights. And then, so we got

00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:25.199
up, we did a transfer, uh, North in our County,

00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:28.400
which is about 40 minute ride or so. And, and

00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:31.480
that one wasn't, um, like a code one. We could

00:42:31.480 --> 00:42:34.440
go at a normal speed, luckily. And it was like

00:42:34.440 --> 00:42:37.039
five 30 and they called the paramedic and go,

00:42:37.099 --> 00:42:39.000
Hey, we need to send this person to Hartford.

00:42:39.300 --> 00:42:43.329
And he's like, No. Like the shift is over at

00:42:43.329 --> 00:42:47.170
six. Right. And he's like, no, because you've

00:42:47.170 --> 00:42:51.989
seen us all night. Like either me and Mark or

00:42:51.989 --> 00:42:55.269
the other crew, like almost every couple of hours.

00:42:55.449 --> 00:42:58.610
Like, you know, and they have a pager in there

00:42:58.610 --> 00:43:02.070
right where the nurses sit. So they can hear

00:43:02.070 --> 00:43:05.010
the calls going on on top if they don't call

00:43:05.010 --> 00:43:08.090
us for a transport. And of course, he got in

00:43:08.090 --> 00:43:11.809
trouble for that. Cause he was looking out for

00:43:11.809 --> 00:43:15.630
me and the other two guys. Cause I think that

00:43:15.630 --> 00:43:19.730
would have ended very badly for whoever was in

00:43:19.730 --> 00:43:23.989
the ambulance and that patient. Yeah. With that,

00:43:23.989 --> 00:43:28.510
that, that was, well, then the one, I think almost

00:43:28.510 --> 00:43:33.329
any peds call, I just, you know, they don't sit

00:43:33.329 --> 00:43:36.829
well because as you know, P you know, they do

00:43:36.829 --> 00:43:41.500
great. And then it's a straight drop. So depending

00:43:41.500 --> 00:43:43.280
if you get there early, you know, if you can

00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:46.739
catch them before they hit the downhill. But

00:43:46.739 --> 00:43:49.300
yeah, Pete, I think I'll just say Pete's calls.

00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:51.579
I won't get into a couple of them, but I'll say

00:43:51.579 --> 00:43:54.679
that. Yeah, I think anyone that's done the job

00:43:54.679 --> 00:43:56.780
for more than a few months will be able to relate

00:43:56.780 --> 00:44:01.079
to that. Definitely. So we're going to get to

00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:04.860
the piece that you wrote for eDolly. Talk to

00:44:04.860 --> 00:44:07.989
me first about. your observation now as we sit

00:44:07.989 --> 00:44:11.309
here in 2026 of your own mental health journey

00:44:11.309 --> 00:44:18.710
okay yeah um yeah i've definitely been through

00:44:18.710 --> 00:44:23.030
uh some calls not uh everyone goes through a

00:44:23.030 --> 00:44:27.230
different um i've i've definitely sought therapy

00:44:27.230 --> 00:44:30.869
and still seeking therapy for my own health to

00:44:30.869 --> 00:44:36.489
keep myself healthy um I think one thing I can

00:44:36.489 --> 00:44:38.949
say I'm really good at, like if a person passes,

00:44:39.190 --> 00:44:43.489
you know, dies, I don't beat myself up about

00:44:43.489 --> 00:44:46.550
that. You know, I've always thought, I go, you

00:44:46.550 --> 00:44:49.909
know, I did as much as I could for whether we're

00:44:49.909 --> 00:44:53.309
EMT, firefighter, you know, either side. I think

00:44:53.309 --> 00:44:55.670
that's the one thing I never let that eat at

00:44:55.670 --> 00:45:00.429
me. You know, I did my skills as best as I could.

00:45:01.130 --> 00:45:03.530
But, you know, just, I think just seeing the

00:45:03.530 --> 00:45:06.050
trauma around it or, you know, the family on

00:45:06.050 --> 00:45:09.329
top of you, basically, I know you had those calls

00:45:09.329 --> 00:45:11.110
too, where they're, you know, a foot from you,

00:45:11.150 --> 00:45:13.949
you know, just screaming and yelling and just

00:45:13.949 --> 00:45:16.650
being emotional, being family that loves that

00:45:16.650 --> 00:45:18.849
person. And you're trying to take care of that

00:45:18.849 --> 00:45:21.030
stuff that definitely sticks with you for sure.

00:45:21.989 --> 00:45:24.809
But yeah, I think I've been better about taking

00:45:24.809 --> 00:45:27.650
care of myself, exercising, talking to someone,

00:45:27.809 --> 00:45:32.230
meditating. and i definitely more positive talk

00:45:32.230 --> 00:45:36.969
for sure did you have a deep low or have you

00:45:36.969 --> 00:45:39.570
always kind of been able to to get ahead of it

00:45:39.570 --> 00:45:43.130
and be proactive with those therapies no it definitely

00:45:43.130 --> 00:45:49.429
it built up after a while for sure um and then

00:45:49.429 --> 00:45:53.250
you know self -realization and i'm not gonna

00:45:53.250 --> 00:45:56.190
lie my wife's poking and prodding to which i'm

00:45:56.190 --> 00:45:59.840
very thankful for uh to needing to talk to someone

00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:04.559
i think was a huge turning point so through your

00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:07.139
wife's observation or your own what were the

00:46:07.139 --> 00:46:08.920
warning signs and what was kind of the lowest

00:46:08.920 --> 00:46:16.579
point that you found yourself um i think uh just

00:46:16.579 --> 00:46:21.159
being depressed kind of no feelings quick anger

00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:26.840
quick fuse i think was a big one real uh negativity

00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:31.260
towards myself and just other things were the

00:46:31.260 --> 00:46:35.300
big ones so the piece that you wrote was obviously

00:46:35.300 --> 00:46:37.639
reflecting on you know some of the challenges

00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:39.599
we have in our profession and you know how do

00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:43.400
we improve those yes what about your reflection

00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:46.280
on the profession in general whether it was your

00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:48.360
own volunteer department or it was more of a

00:46:48.360 --> 00:46:52.360
macro level looking at mental health you mean

00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:54.280
yeah what made you even get to the point where

00:46:54.280 --> 00:46:57.530
you wanted to write about it Sure. So the backstory

00:46:57.530 --> 00:47:01.710
to that is, so I recently earned my doctorate

00:47:01.710 --> 00:47:05.570
degree in athletic training. And so when that

00:47:05.570 --> 00:47:10.389
essay contest came across, I was in my third

00:47:10.389 --> 00:47:14.389
year grad school. So my muscle memory for doing

00:47:14.389 --> 00:47:17.150
research papers presentation was very sharp at

00:47:17.150 --> 00:47:20.449
that point. And I was in a psychology class at

00:47:20.449 --> 00:47:25.389
that point. So getting facts, figures. That was

00:47:25.389 --> 00:47:28.289
the easy part. Like I could do that all day,

00:47:28.349 --> 00:47:32.449
but putting my personal twist on it and putting

00:47:32.449 --> 00:47:35.190
my stories in, as you saw, and then trying to

00:47:35.190 --> 00:47:38.670
make it more practical was the harder part. Like,

00:47:38.670 --> 00:47:41.429
like one part of it says, you know, suggesting,

00:47:41.869 --> 00:47:44.550
obviously these are just ideas, you know, make

00:47:44.550 --> 00:47:48.250
having the officers do a psychological like safety

00:47:48.250 --> 00:47:51.030
class. And obviously I could hear moans and groans

00:47:51.030 --> 00:47:53.309
from battalion chiefs and captains, you know.

00:47:54.219 --> 00:47:56.719
Guys who do this every day for a living, like,

00:47:56.800 --> 00:48:00.519
oh, another class, another checkbox. I go, yeah,

00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:03.099
I know, you know, but it's just we got to start

00:48:03.099 --> 00:48:06.360
somewhere. You know, these are just ideas. But,

00:48:06.420 --> 00:48:09.460
you know, that's the longest part was the practicality

00:48:09.460 --> 00:48:12.780
and then the personal stories as well that I

00:48:12.780 --> 00:48:17.119
intertwined into that. So, you know, there are.

00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:20.059
It's been interesting watching the conversation

00:48:20.059 --> 00:48:22.159
because I would argue in my world, it was about

00:48:22.159 --> 00:48:25.519
10 years ago where we really, really started,

00:48:25.539 --> 00:48:28.139
you know, having this conversation. And again,

00:48:28.199 --> 00:48:30.260
it was in an echo chamber and it's got bigger

00:48:30.260 --> 00:48:33.219
and bigger and bigger. But back then it was,

00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:35.760
well, it's what we see. That's why we struggle,

00:48:35.860 --> 00:48:38.139
you know, and now it's got a lot more nuances.

00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:40.800
You know, we've learned more from neuroscientists

00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:43.260
and psychologists and psychiatrists and, you

00:48:43.260 --> 00:48:45.639
know, so many other lived experiences that we've

00:48:45.639 --> 00:48:48.489
heard now. What are some of the glaring elements

00:48:48.489 --> 00:48:52.190
that you feel we need to be talking about here

00:48:52.190 --> 00:48:57.190
in 2026? I think looking at the stats, even though

00:48:57.190 --> 00:49:00.469
we're talking more about it, the statistics aren't

00:49:00.469 --> 00:49:03.309
going down for first responders taking their

00:49:03.309 --> 00:49:07.710
lives. That's the most glaring thing to me. We're

00:49:07.710 --> 00:49:11.590
talking about it more, but all right, we're missing

00:49:11.590 --> 00:49:14.170
the mark, obviously. I'm saying it's not going

00:49:14.170 --> 00:49:16.260
to go down to zero. That's never going to happen,

00:49:16.340 --> 00:49:21.480
but at least show a downward trend to show some

00:49:21.480 --> 00:49:23.619
positive that we're gaining good traction in

00:49:23.619 --> 00:49:25.920
this. I mean, that's the biggest glare that I

00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:28.840
see. Well, this is what I've talked about with

00:49:28.840 --> 00:49:30.500
the mental health and also even with the cancer.

00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:33.960
Like the last place I worked at barely ever got

00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:35.360
a structure fire. There were fire department

00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:38.219
as well, fire and EMS, but it was where they

00:49:38.219 --> 00:49:40.280
work was so well sprinkled, which is basically

00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:45.199
Disney that they never got fire. And yet. They

00:49:45.199 --> 00:49:48.179
were dying left, right, and center from cancer

00:49:48.179 --> 00:49:52.380
included. So if it was just the carcinogens in

00:49:52.380 --> 00:49:55.300
a structure fire, then departments that didn't

00:49:55.300 --> 00:49:57.840
have any structure fires should be super healthy.

00:49:58.039 --> 00:50:01.099
But that wasn't the case at all. What I saw in

00:50:01.099 --> 00:50:03.539
my observation, aside from us recently discovering

00:50:03.539 --> 00:50:06.940
the carcinogens in our gear itself, as per the

00:50:06.940 --> 00:50:10.559
manufacturer, like PFAS. is the one common denominator

00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:13.360
is shift work is sleep deprivation which we know

00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:16.420
is a carcinogen and we also know has a direct

00:50:16.420 --> 00:50:19.739
correlation to all things mental ill health addiction

00:50:19.739 --> 00:50:23.579
suicide etc so you know to me that's what i call

00:50:23.579 --> 00:50:26.340
the herd of elephants in the room um so you know

00:50:26.340 --> 00:50:28.440
there are other compounding factors you mentioned

00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:31.519
you know culture being a big thing what are some

00:50:31.519 --> 00:50:33.559
of the areas you think that we need to pull out

00:50:33.559 --> 00:50:38.500
of the shadows yeah i i think the sleep debt

00:50:38.989 --> 00:50:42.489
is a big one and then fortunately like we talked

00:50:42.489 --> 00:50:45.750
about earlier doing the 24 72 is a huge step

00:50:45.750 --> 00:50:49.650
in the right direction i think another part is

00:50:49.650 --> 00:50:54.969
um this identity uh fusion like you you're just

00:50:54.969 --> 00:50:57.289
not that first responder that's not your only

00:50:57.289 --> 00:51:00.510
thing i know and people are having difficulty

00:51:00.510 --> 00:51:03.670
pulling away from that whether you know the be

00:51:03.670 --> 00:51:06.750
the calls or the lack of sleep or the culture

00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:09.559
you know, multiple things is, you know, they

00:51:09.559 --> 00:51:12.619
take that home with them, but when you get home,

00:51:12.860 --> 00:51:15.880
there's a partner waiting for you. There's kids,

00:51:16.039 --> 00:51:20.599
there's another life, you know, and, and people

00:51:20.599 --> 00:51:24.719
have, you know, big problems pulling away with

00:51:24.719 --> 00:51:27.440
that, pulling away from their job and, you know,

00:51:27.440 --> 00:51:30.500
taking home with them is, is another big part.

00:51:30.860 --> 00:51:35.510
And then. When you go into work, I'm just going

00:51:35.510 --> 00:51:39.309
to use the professional side, is having a psychologically

00:51:39.309 --> 00:51:47.730
safe area to operate in. I think this shouldn't

00:51:47.730 --> 00:51:52.670
be treated as an epidemic. It should just be

00:51:52.670 --> 00:51:56.030
part of our operational readiness to have to

00:51:56.030 --> 00:51:59.469
be a psychologically safe area to come into work.

00:51:59.809 --> 00:52:02.369
All right. Now, obviously, we're going to have

00:52:02.369 --> 00:52:06.090
arguments and disagree and stuff like that's

00:52:06.090 --> 00:52:08.769
part of it. You know, everyone, you know, not

00:52:08.769 --> 00:52:12.670
going to be holding hands and, you know, being

00:52:12.670 --> 00:52:15.269
la la la all the time. I get that. We're humans,

00:52:15.469 --> 00:52:18.250
you know, but, you know, you got to come into

00:52:18.250 --> 00:52:20.670
an area and not immediately feel your heart,

00:52:20.730 --> 00:52:24.409
you know, jacking out of your chest and thinking

00:52:24.409 --> 00:52:26.869
of excuses. Where can I hide so I don't have

00:52:26.869 --> 00:52:30.090
to see so and so or do certain things? You should

00:52:30.090 --> 00:52:34.289
be able to come into work and feeling part of

00:52:34.289 --> 00:52:38.090
the team and wanting to do your role, whatever

00:52:38.090 --> 00:52:41.809
it may be. What are you seeing as far as the

00:52:41.809 --> 00:52:44.809
contributing factors to a lot of this kind of

00:52:44.809 --> 00:52:48.150
organizational betrayal, toxic culture that is

00:52:48.150 --> 00:52:50.309
reported quite frequently in the fire service?

00:52:51.869 --> 00:52:58.409
Yeah, I think it's kind of... top and bottom,

00:52:58.530 --> 00:53:01.929
which I'll explain. So that the top is, you know,

00:53:01.929 --> 00:53:06.570
our leaders at the top, you know, we're brave

00:53:06.570 --> 00:53:10.949
enough to go into a fire to, you know, pull someone

00:53:10.949 --> 00:53:13.809
out of a car upside down or, you know, go down

00:53:13.809 --> 00:53:16.070
a building and into a window to grab someone.

00:53:16.409 --> 00:53:20.550
But to stand on flat ground and to, you know,

00:53:20.550 --> 00:53:25.230
have that person, you know, underneath you, not

00:53:25.230 --> 00:53:29.380
doing well, able to talk to you, you know, you

00:53:29.380 --> 00:53:32.780
got to be that brave officer right then and there

00:53:32.780 --> 00:53:36.460
too, to help, to help your team. And I think

00:53:36.460 --> 00:53:40.400
in the academy, that should be part of their

00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:43.980
learning. Like it's okay to speak up, to go to

00:53:43.980 --> 00:53:47.099
your Lieutenant, your captain, senior firefighter

00:53:47.099 --> 00:53:52.519
and say, Hey, you know, I'm not, and I'm not

00:53:52.519 --> 00:53:54.579
expecting officers or senior firefighters to

00:53:54.579 --> 00:53:58.010
be psychologists. just a lending ear just to

00:53:58.010 --> 00:54:00.610
listen you know a little empathy goes a long

00:54:00.610 --> 00:54:05.190
way just to have you know a place you know i

00:54:05.190 --> 00:54:09.050
can go into work and i don't have to jam it down

00:54:09.050 --> 00:54:13.230
and pack it away you know obviously there are

00:54:13.230 --> 00:54:15.670
times where we have to you know emergency situations

00:54:15.670 --> 00:54:19.409
so forth but you don't want that uh when you

00:54:19.409 --> 00:54:22.190
go out there to be a risk for the other people

00:54:22.190 --> 00:54:24.949
on your team because You've got so much going

00:54:24.949 --> 00:54:27.030
on, you're distracted from what you need to do

00:54:27.030 --> 00:54:29.769
at that moment to help protect your team or do

00:54:29.769 --> 00:54:35.869
your job. You mentioned bottom -up as well. Yes.

00:54:37.929 --> 00:54:40.590
Just, you know, when you button it up and pack

00:54:40.590 --> 00:54:44.389
it in, that's a tremendous risk to yourself and

00:54:44.389 --> 00:54:48.170
to your teammates. You know, you've got to have

00:54:48.170 --> 00:54:52.289
a space. Maybe it's outside. you know, the police

00:54:52.289 --> 00:54:54.369
department, fire department, EMS, that you talk

00:54:54.369 --> 00:54:56.130
to someone great. As long as you're talking to

00:54:56.130 --> 00:54:59.210
someone and you're not just keeping it in and

00:54:59.210 --> 00:55:02.710
you're making bad choices and bad habits on top

00:55:02.710 --> 00:55:05.269
of that. And it's just snowballing from there.

00:55:06.070 --> 00:55:08.389
That's, that's why I'm just come with a culture,

00:55:08.469 --> 00:55:10.690
having a culture where your leadership steps

00:55:10.690 --> 00:55:15.530
in. And I think the first 360 should be done

00:55:15.530 --> 00:55:17.829
in the firehouse. When you step in as an officer,

00:55:17.889 --> 00:55:20.880
like each day. You don't have to have a sit down

00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:23.199
with each one, just sitting at the coffee table,

00:55:23.360 --> 00:55:25.800
getting the vibe for the day. You know, just

00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:28.780
a two minute thing. Hey, how are your kids doing?

00:55:29.059 --> 00:55:31.480
You know, how's the house coming? You're with

00:55:31.480 --> 00:55:34.059
the other person and so forth. Just getting that

00:55:34.059 --> 00:55:36.380
connection with your team, I think will go a

00:55:36.380 --> 00:55:40.260
long way in the future. Now, I mentioned as far

00:55:40.260 --> 00:55:42.360
as contributing to the culture, you said the

00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:44.780
top down, but also the bottom up. So talk to

00:55:44.780 --> 00:55:48.780
me about the bottom up part. Sure. Just my personal

00:55:48.780 --> 00:55:51.119
belief. I think that should be part of the academy.

00:55:51.199 --> 00:55:55.300
Like when they're teaching the future, like it's

00:55:55.300 --> 00:55:58.639
okay to speak up, you know, not disrespectful.

00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:01.619
Like this is the way we learned in academy, but

00:56:01.619 --> 00:56:04.500
like you're learning a lot, you know, you're

00:56:04.500 --> 00:56:08.519
learning this life -saving job and you're trying

00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:10.960
to be, you know, just a person at the same time

00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:13.239
and they're going to clash and other stuff from

00:56:13.239 --> 00:56:15.760
outside is going to come smashing in as well.

00:56:16.170 --> 00:56:20.090
and being okay to pull an officer aside or a

00:56:20.090 --> 00:56:23.289
senior firefighter and just asking for a little

00:56:23.289 --> 00:56:26.750
help or tips or whatever just to help manage

00:56:26.750 --> 00:56:29.349
everything. I think in the future, it's like

00:56:29.349 --> 00:56:32.489
just building part of that psychological safe

00:56:32.489 --> 00:56:38.050
place to work in. It's interesting all the conversations

00:56:38.050 --> 00:56:42.550
I've had with the 2472. And again, people hear

00:56:42.550 --> 00:56:44.030
me talking about that and I'm flogging a dead

00:56:44.030 --> 00:56:47.400
horse, but it's because... it does address so

00:56:47.400 --> 00:56:50.639
many of the issues. And it's not the magic pill,

00:56:50.739 --> 00:56:54.400
but it's a huge, huge part of the puzzle. Identity

00:56:54.400 --> 00:56:57.760
fusion that you said, one of the most nauseating

00:56:57.760 --> 00:57:00.280
things I've heard from chiefs, and it's less

00:57:00.280 --> 00:57:02.340
now, but early on, I've been talking about this

00:57:02.340 --> 00:57:05.440
for nine plus years now, was, well, if we give

00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:07.900
them more time off, they'll just work more. Which,

00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:10.679
what an arrogant statement to say that you're

00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:12.539
in charge of people on their days off as well.

00:57:14.409 --> 00:57:17.250
It's nuanced because if you give people more

00:57:17.250 --> 00:57:21.409
time off and therefore you attract a much higher

00:57:21.409 --> 00:57:24.929
recruitment and retention, so therefore there

00:57:24.929 --> 00:57:27.190
aren't these vacancies that you're forcing people

00:57:27.190 --> 00:57:31.289
to stay to work. Now the extra work isn't overtime

00:57:31.289 --> 00:57:34.489
anymore at your department. So now it becomes,

00:57:34.630 --> 00:57:36.570
okay, once in a while you get an OT shift, but

00:57:36.570 --> 00:57:38.050
the rest of the time I'm going to have to figure

00:57:38.050 --> 00:57:40.679
out somewhere else if I want to. bolster my income

00:57:40.679 --> 00:57:43.940
even more so now for you for example say that

00:57:43.940 --> 00:57:45.980
you were a full -time firefighter and you decide

00:57:45.980 --> 00:57:48.639
to do that predominantly but do you know athletic

00:57:48.639 --> 00:57:51.980
training on the side you do your 24 -hour shift

00:57:51.980 --> 00:57:54.599
and then you spend you know two or three days

00:57:54.599 --> 00:57:57.809
at a school and you know you get there seven

00:57:57.809 --> 00:57:59.449
or eight in the morning and you go home at five

00:57:59.449 --> 00:58:01.309
or six and obviously you know depending on games

00:58:01.309 --> 00:58:03.650
but you're still with your family each night

00:58:03.650 --> 00:58:05.889
you still spend quality time you still get a

00:58:05.889 --> 00:58:08.789
good night's sleep and you've got a different

00:58:08.789 --> 00:58:11.869
identity and a different tribe so not only have

00:58:11.869 --> 00:58:15.210
you addressed the sleep deprivation and organizational

00:58:15.210 --> 00:58:17.829
betrayal element because you're not Telling someone,

00:58:17.909 --> 00:58:20.289
tell your child you can't go home today, pretty

00:58:20.289 --> 00:58:23.829
detrimental. But now you're forging that second

00:58:23.829 --> 00:58:27.110
identity. So God forbid you can't be a firefighter

00:58:27.110 --> 00:58:29.969
anymore for whatever reason. Now you've got this

00:58:29.969 --> 00:58:32.170
other tribe you can lean into, this other income

00:58:32.170 --> 00:58:35.050
that you can rely on. So I feel like it solves

00:58:35.050 --> 00:58:38.769
so many different things simultaneously. Yeah,

00:58:38.789 --> 00:58:43.170
I think that also ties in back to our one sport

00:58:43.170 --> 00:58:47.599
athlete, just being a firefighter. It's not healthy.

00:58:48.239 --> 00:58:50.719
I'm just using firefighter, obviously any first

00:58:50.719 --> 00:58:54.460
responder, whatever your job may be, just doing

00:58:54.460 --> 00:58:57.039
that is not healthy. You got to build diversity

00:58:57.039 --> 00:59:01.260
into your life. You got to find somewhere else,

00:59:01.260 --> 00:59:04.619
some other healthy options to help you overall.

00:59:06.159 --> 00:59:08.539
100%. And then even at the bottom, I mean, I'm

00:59:08.539 --> 00:59:12.699
going to be a little harsh now, but... firefighting

00:59:12.699 --> 00:59:15.659
isn't for everyone. EMS, law enforcement, corrections,

00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:18.119
dispatch, they're not for everyone. And each

00:59:18.119 --> 00:59:20.619
one has their specialty skills that they need.

00:59:21.340 --> 00:59:24.039
And what has happened, I'm going to say what

00:59:24.039 --> 00:59:25.940
worries me, what has happened because we're witnessing

00:59:25.940 --> 00:59:30.780
it is as this recruitment crisis has grown, bars

00:59:30.780 --> 00:59:33.320
have been lowered in places that don't understand

00:59:33.320 --> 00:59:37.019
really how to fix demand. And therefore people

00:59:37.019 --> 00:59:39.849
have become firefighters that really... don't

00:59:39.849 --> 00:59:42.409
have the skill set to become firefighters. So

00:59:42.409 --> 00:59:45.269
now we're inviting even more of a toxic culture

00:59:45.269 --> 00:59:47.489
to come in. Perfect example, we just had four

00:59:47.489 --> 00:59:50.369
of our firefighters arrested here in the county

00:59:50.369 --> 00:59:53.289
that I live in, which resulted in 10 terminations,

00:59:53.369 --> 00:59:56.989
which in turn was not handled properly. So now

00:59:56.989 --> 00:59:59.230
as a taxpayer, I'm going to be paying for all

00:59:59.230 --> 01:00:01.309
the lawsuits that come out of that too. Well,

01:00:01.429 --> 01:00:03.750
we still have an awful delivery of service, but

01:00:03.750 --> 01:00:07.050
that's another entire conversation. The point

01:00:07.050 --> 01:00:09.250
being that if we're trying to fix the culture

01:00:09.250 --> 01:00:12.469
and therefore improve mental health, and yet

01:00:12.469 --> 01:00:14.730
we're lowering the bar and inviting people that

01:00:14.730 --> 01:00:16.849
aren't the right fit for this, and then God forbid

01:00:16.849 --> 01:00:19.750
they start promoting, you've got this horrendous

01:00:19.750 --> 01:00:23.090
vicious circle then. Conversely, like Pasco County

01:00:23.090 --> 01:00:26.289
just did yesterday, you go to this healthier

01:00:26.289 --> 01:00:28.289
work week, their recruitment's through the roof,

01:00:28.349 --> 01:00:30.349
their retention is, I wouldn't say through the

01:00:30.349 --> 01:00:31.909
roof, but they're retaining people that were

01:00:31.909 --> 01:00:35.909
posturing to leave prior. And now they're investing

01:00:35.909 --> 01:00:37.829
in access to mental health and they're talking

01:00:37.829 --> 01:00:39.889
about putting in a punitive fitness standard.

01:00:39.989 --> 01:00:42.409
I mean, all these amplifying elements that are

01:00:42.409 --> 01:00:45.469
raising their bar and then also elevating the

01:00:45.469 --> 01:00:47.250
physical and mental health of their men and women.

01:00:47.510 --> 01:00:53.090
So taking from your world, what I love is reframing

01:00:53.090 --> 01:00:55.809
what we've really looked at as far as the negative

01:00:55.809 --> 01:00:59.989
sides of what's basically killing us and reframing

01:00:59.989 --> 01:01:02.489
it to performance. Well, how do we get the highest

01:01:02.489 --> 01:01:05.530
performing? Well, we've got to work on their

01:01:05.530 --> 01:01:07.230
physical health. We've got to work on their mental

01:01:07.230 --> 01:01:09.130
health. We've got to do operational training.

01:01:09.449 --> 01:01:11.670
We've got to think about breath work and mindfulness

01:01:11.670 --> 01:01:14.630
and some of these other things. And so now it's

01:01:14.630 --> 01:01:17.510
having the same exact effect on obesity and testosterone

01:01:17.510 --> 01:01:22.630
depletion and mental health and addiction and

01:01:22.630 --> 01:01:24.869
relationships with their families. But on the

01:01:24.869 --> 01:01:27.630
other side, you're not putting it in a doom and

01:01:27.630 --> 01:01:30.289
gloom sad envelope. You're putting in, well,

01:01:30.309 --> 01:01:33.090
no, we're forging performance. So just in your

01:01:33.090 --> 01:01:34.849
world, whether your athletic trainer is trying

01:01:34.849 --> 01:01:37.710
to get your kids to win, but also have longevity,

01:01:38.090 --> 01:01:40.710
that's the lens I think we need to shift to in

01:01:40.710 --> 01:01:43.329
the fire service now. It's not, because it has

01:01:43.329 --> 01:01:44.989
been. The conversation is, well, why do we keep

01:01:44.989 --> 01:01:47.769
dying? What an awful conversation. Why don't

01:01:47.769 --> 01:01:51.170
we focus on performance, which in turn, the why

01:01:51.170 --> 01:01:53.849
do we keep dying elements will be fixed in that

01:01:53.849 --> 01:01:58.130
journey. Yeah, I think that's great with recruitment.

01:01:58.230 --> 01:02:00.650
I go, you're not just looking at the backdraft

01:02:00.650 --> 01:02:05.869
poster. We're way more than that. When you're

01:02:05.869 --> 01:02:07.190
doing the recruitment, like showing them, we're

01:02:07.190 --> 01:02:11.090
focused on taking care of you. You're going to

01:02:11.090 --> 01:02:13.550
go out there and take care of that 911 call because

01:02:13.550 --> 01:02:15.329
you're going to be well -trained and you're going

01:02:15.329 --> 01:02:17.090
to have a team around you. That's not going to

01:02:17.090 --> 01:02:21.349
be a problem. But the stuff that you see and

01:02:21.349 --> 01:02:23.449
the physical trauma that happens to you, we're

01:02:23.449 --> 01:02:26.429
going to show you that things to help you and

01:02:26.429 --> 01:02:29.230
we'll have a system around you to take care of

01:02:29.230 --> 01:02:31.480
you. I think that's the biggest selling point.

01:02:32.420 --> 01:02:34.679
Yeah. Well, even going back to Rexham, I mean,

01:02:34.739 --> 01:02:37.500
as we saw when they were a very small club, they

01:02:37.500 --> 01:02:40.719
had far fewer resources, but as they started

01:02:40.719 --> 01:02:43.289
developing them. They were like, okay, we need

01:02:43.289 --> 01:02:46.630
a full -time athletic trainer. We need a sports

01:02:46.630 --> 01:02:48.789
psychologist. And you see all these people that

01:02:48.789 --> 01:02:51.429
are helping them not only stay healthy and hopefully

01:02:51.429 --> 01:02:54.250
reduce injuries, but also perform at the higher

01:02:54.250 --> 01:02:57.510
level. And taking that sport model that a lot

01:02:57.510 --> 01:02:59.949
of the special operations community already views

01:02:59.949 --> 01:03:02.909
for a long time and applying it to police and

01:03:02.909 --> 01:03:05.809
fire and EMS and not so much the physical, but

01:03:05.809 --> 01:03:08.800
the mental side to dispatch. You know, that's,

01:03:08.800 --> 01:03:10.980
I think, how we need to move forward, because

01:03:10.980 --> 01:03:15.300
what we ask those communities to do, 99 % of

01:03:15.300 --> 01:03:19.619
the country cannot or will not do. And yet that's

01:03:19.619 --> 01:03:21.280
really some of the most neglected professions.

01:03:21.300 --> 01:03:25.159
So I think it's an exciting journey from where

01:03:25.159 --> 01:03:28.420
we are now to really forging health and performance

01:03:28.420 --> 01:03:30.980
in all these professions that we work alongside.

01:03:31.940 --> 01:03:34.039
Yeah. I mean, just going back to the athletic

01:03:34.039 --> 01:03:36.099
training, I'm just seeing more athletic trainers

01:03:36.099 --> 01:03:39.679
being hired by counties and towns to help their

01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:43.360
first responders because there is a return on

01:03:43.360 --> 01:03:45.840
investment instantly. The work comp, you know,

01:03:45.860 --> 01:03:48.079
what they have to pay to goes down. They're quicker

01:03:48.079 --> 01:03:50.840
to turn around back to their shifts. And, you

01:03:50.840 --> 01:03:52.960
know, that also turns out you're educating the

01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:55.019
first responders for more preventative stuff.

01:03:55.119 --> 01:03:58.360
So when stuff. you know, happens, they're learning

01:03:58.360 --> 01:04:00.260
more to how to take care of themselves in the

01:04:00.260 --> 01:04:04.199
long run. It's a win -win. Absolutely. Well,

01:04:04.260 --> 01:04:06.079
before we go to some closing questions, are there

01:04:06.079 --> 01:04:08.199
any other elements that you wrote about that

01:04:08.199 --> 01:04:14.119
you want to make sure that we discuss? I think,

01:04:14.179 --> 01:04:18.000
like I said, just overall, like these are just

01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:21.800
ideas that came from my angle. You know, I've

01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:24.780
never been a professional firefighter. You know,

01:04:24.780 --> 01:04:27.579
I haven't worked. In a big city, Chicago, New

01:04:27.579 --> 01:04:31.139
York, LA, obviously the dynamics and budgets

01:04:31.139 --> 01:04:33.780
and politics are way different. But I think just

01:04:33.780 --> 01:04:36.659
getting these ideas out here and they evolve

01:04:36.659 --> 01:04:39.900
and change into different things. But as long

01:04:39.900 --> 01:04:44.079
as they're being used or an idea of it to help

01:04:44.079 --> 01:04:47.539
our first responders is just the message I'm

01:04:47.539 --> 01:04:50.699
trying to get out there. Absolutely. Well, the

01:04:50.699 --> 01:04:52.619
first of the closing questions then, is there

01:04:52.619 --> 01:04:55.079
a book or are there books that you love to recommend?

01:04:55.159 --> 01:04:57.539
It can be related to our discussion today or

01:04:57.539 --> 01:05:01.980
completely unrelated. I'm going to say the books

01:05:01.980 --> 01:05:04.900
I've just read that helped me personally, Mel

01:05:04.900 --> 01:05:12.420
Robbins. The Let Them, High Five in Yourself,

01:05:12.579 --> 01:05:17.699
54321, her books have really helped me turn a

01:05:17.699 --> 01:05:23.400
corner. Staying positive with myself. I mean,

01:05:23.420 --> 01:05:25.539
I have crappy days. I get down on myself, but

01:05:25.539 --> 01:05:30.300
not as nearly as before. I think she helped give

01:05:30.300 --> 01:05:34.719
me the right tools is what helped me mentally

01:05:34.719 --> 01:05:38.500
be a better athletic trainer, person, first responder

01:05:38.500 --> 01:05:41.980
as well. I think her books have really helped

01:05:41.980 --> 01:05:45.179
me a lot. I'm very thankful for those. Brilliant.

01:05:45.179 --> 01:05:46.599
Yeah, my son's reading one. I can't remember

01:05:46.599 --> 01:05:48.699
which one it's called now, but he's got one of

01:05:48.699 --> 01:05:51.659
hers kind of on deck at the moment. What about

01:05:51.659 --> 01:05:57.739
film, television or documentaries? Oh, wow. I'm

01:05:57.739 --> 01:06:02.239
a super huge superhero geek. So I love all the

01:06:02.239 --> 01:06:04.699
Marvel and DC movies. Those are always, you know,

01:06:04.699 --> 01:06:11.360
great to watch for fun. But man, I'd have to

01:06:11.360 --> 01:06:16.530
go. Yellowstone, Paramount, Landman, big fan.

01:06:17.289 --> 01:06:20.550
Taylor Sheridan, period. All his are just out

01:06:20.550 --> 01:06:23.690
of the park. Wrexham is phenomenal. Love watching

01:06:23.690 --> 01:06:26.590
the boys. I follow them on my ESPN app to see

01:06:26.590 --> 01:06:29.389
how they're doing. So I know what's coming up

01:06:29.389 --> 01:06:31.590
when they film it. It's going to be a good match

01:06:31.590 --> 01:06:35.730
and highlights and lowlights as well. But, yeah,

01:06:35.829 --> 01:06:37.550
I think those are the things I'm watching right

01:06:37.550 --> 01:06:41.260
now that are great to watch. Speaking of amazing

01:06:41.260 --> 01:06:43.519
people, is there a person you'd recommend to

01:06:43.519 --> 01:06:46.539
come on this podcast as a guest to speak to the

01:06:46.539 --> 01:06:49.260
first responders, military, and associated professions

01:06:49.260 --> 01:06:53.860
of the world? Besides me? We've already had you,

01:06:53.920 --> 01:07:00.340
so there we go. Wow, that's a great question.

01:07:00.780 --> 01:07:05.639
I think actually Mel. I think showing her stuff

01:07:05.639 --> 01:07:08.889
and how it's backed by research. It's not just

01:07:08.889 --> 01:07:10.809
her like, hey, this happened to me one day and

01:07:10.809 --> 01:07:13.130
I'm going to write a book about it. She actually

01:07:13.130 --> 01:07:15.409
reading through her books, you know, she's done

01:07:15.409 --> 01:07:18.170
her research, she's done her work. And I think

01:07:18.170 --> 01:07:21.889
just, you know, going over some simple things

01:07:21.889 --> 01:07:24.130
and what she has in her books, I think would

01:07:24.130 --> 01:07:27.769
help first responders. Absolutely. Brilliant.

01:07:27.889 --> 01:07:29.550
All right. Well, then the last question before

01:07:29.550 --> 01:07:31.230
we make sure where everyone knows where to find

01:07:31.230 --> 01:07:36.630
you, what do you do to decompress? Oh, I fortunately

01:07:36.630 --> 01:07:39.659
have two black labs. So they are always happy

01:07:39.659 --> 01:07:42.820
to see me no matter what kind of day I'm having.

01:07:42.980 --> 01:07:47.519
That always helps. But I'd have to say coming

01:07:47.519 --> 01:07:50.880
home to my wife. I would say my son, but he's

01:07:50.880 --> 01:07:56.059
studying abroad right now in Ireland. But, yeah,

01:07:56.159 --> 01:08:02.079
just coming home and having a home and especially

01:08:02.079 --> 01:08:05.380
after the tough days, getting a hug from my wife.

01:08:06.059 --> 01:08:08.699
My dog's around me. That's a huge decompression.

01:08:09.659 --> 01:08:13.079
But I am good. I do have to say when I get up

01:08:13.079 --> 01:08:15.719
in the morning with my dogs, I don't look at

01:08:15.719 --> 01:08:19.260
my phone. I get right to exercising. So I think

01:08:19.260 --> 01:08:24.880
that's been a good change in me as well, is exercising

01:08:24.880 --> 01:08:26.960
and then a little later on in the morning to

01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:29.279
meditate as well, just to get myself centered

01:08:29.279 --> 01:08:32.619
and ready each day. What kind of exercise do

01:08:32.619 --> 01:08:38.159
you prefer? Right now, I switched it up. I'm

01:08:38.159 --> 01:08:42.180
doing 100 reps with kettlebells, with a kettlebell,

01:08:42.359 --> 01:08:46.819
doing like halo swings, golf swings, upright

01:08:46.819 --> 01:08:50.020
rows, chest press, just doing a lot of those,

01:08:50.180 --> 01:08:53.000
which I think has helped me on the fire ground

01:08:53.000 --> 01:08:56.760
scene quite a bit. I've noticed I can move around

01:08:56.760 --> 01:09:00.279
a little easier and less out of breath and keeping

01:09:00.279 --> 01:09:04.360
up with the youngsters a little bit more. Yeah,

01:09:04.360 --> 01:09:07.000
kettlebells are amazing. We shifted our programming

01:09:07.000 --> 01:09:10.060
from CrossFit to what's called Wolf Brigade about

01:09:10.060 --> 01:09:13.260
two years ago now. And so rather than the kind

01:09:13.260 --> 01:09:15.399
of American swing, you know, the way over the

01:09:15.399 --> 01:09:18.319
head, now it's Russian swings, but it's also

01:09:18.319 --> 01:09:21.079
like super heavy. So we've got a 150 -pound kettlebell,

01:09:21.180 --> 01:09:24.140
for example, and game -changing. When you do

01:09:24.140 --> 01:09:26.380
it with heavy movements, it's obviously the right

01:09:26.380 --> 01:09:31.470
kettlebell for the right movement. fricking steel

01:09:31.470 --> 01:09:34.210
ball or molded ball, whatever it's made of, how

01:09:34.210 --> 01:09:37.069
humbling that can be just, you know, soul crushing.

01:09:37.149 --> 01:09:39.109
Like you said, you just do a hundred swings of

01:09:39.109 --> 01:09:41.909
a 53, for example, it'll, it'll put you in your

01:09:41.909 --> 01:09:45.489
place really fast. Absolutely. And, and the good

01:09:45.489 --> 01:09:48.890
thing is I have my, uh, stuff at home. So there's

01:09:48.890 --> 01:09:51.289
no excuse, especially with this lovely New England

01:09:51.289 --> 01:09:54.630
weather where it's double digits right now. Um,

01:09:54.770 --> 01:09:57.729
so, you know, it's, you know, a no excuse workout

01:09:57.729 --> 01:10:01.119
for sure. It's right there. Get it done. Absolutely.

01:10:01.279 --> 01:10:03.079
All right. Well, for people listening, then,

01:10:03.079 --> 01:10:05.439
where can they find the essay that we were talking

01:10:05.439 --> 01:10:07.399
about? And then where can they find you online?

01:10:08.579 --> 01:10:15.699
Sure. So if you go to Darley, they have it as

01:10:15.699 --> 01:10:18.880
well. You can always contact me. I'll give you

01:10:18.880 --> 01:10:23.279
my email. It's M and then Wysocki, W -Y -S -O

01:10:23.279 --> 01:10:29.420
-C -K -I. at berkshireschool .org. You can find

01:10:29.420 --> 01:10:34.539
me on LinkedIn or Instagram. Instagram is mysakiatc.

01:10:35.060 --> 01:10:38.000
And then LinkedIn obviously is my name. And I'm

01:10:38.000 --> 01:10:40.199
always there, willing to answer questions, talk

01:10:40.199 --> 01:10:44.500
to people. I'm here to help. Beautiful. Well,

01:10:44.579 --> 01:10:46.420
I want to thank you so much. It's been such an

01:10:46.420 --> 01:10:48.159
interesting conversation. Thank you to Kevin

01:10:48.159 --> 01:10:51.119
for making this happen. But, you know, with your

01:10:51.119 --> 01:10:54.100
athletic trainer and your volunteer firefighter

01:10:54.100 --> 01:10:56.140
hats, it's really brought some unique perspectives

01:10:56.140 --> 01:10:58.760
to this conversation. So I want to thank you

01:10:58.760 --> 01:11:00.579
so much for being so generous with your time

01:11:00.579 --> 01:11:02.779
and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

01:11:03.680 --> 01:11:05.039
Thank you. Really appreciate it.