WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.000 This episode is sponsored by a company who has 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:04.719 truly found a solution to an age -old problem, 00:00:04.860 --> 00:00:08.380 and that is Carna Bunker Gear. One of the most 00:00:08.380 --> 00:00:11.099 prevalent conversations in the fire service is 00:00:11.099 --> 00:00:13.560 should we or should we not train in our bunker 00:00:13.560 --> 00:00:17.329 gear? Now, the answer to both is yes. As most 00:00:17.329 --> 00:00:19.690 of us are aware, the carcinogens from structure 00:00:19.690 --> 00:00:23.170 fires, of which there are over 260 that are dangerous 00:00:23.170 --> 00:00:26.269 to human health, not to mention the PFAS and 00:00:26.269 --> 00:00:28.350 other chemicals that are within our gear from 00:00:28.350 --> 00:00:31.429 the manufacturing process, are factors that we 00:00:31.429 --> 00:00:34.109 obviously want to minimize. Now, the other side 00:00:34.109 --> 00:00:36.929 of the coin is that we do need to train in our 00:00:36.929 --> 00:00:39.490 gear. There is no way to acclimatize the heat 00:00:39.490 --> 00:00:42.070 retention and lack of mobility than to actually 00:00:42.070 --> 00:00:44.700 wear the gear. So seeing this problem himself, 00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:48.399 firefighter and exercise physiologist Ryan Conley 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:51.780 developed a carcinogen -free gear at a much lower 00:00:51.780 --> 00:00:55.460 cost that can be used in non -IDLH atmosphere 00:00:55.460 --> 00:00:58.560 and training that does not require puncture or 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:01.500 tear resistance. Now, as someone who always trained 00:01:01.500 --> 00:01:04.079 in gear myself throughout my career, I wish this 00:01:04.079 --> 00:01:06.900 technology was around then. And I got to test 00:01:06.900 --> 00:01:09.540 it personally while coaching my tactical athlete 00:01:09.540 --> 00:01:12.819 class a few weeks ago and can testify that it 00:01:12.819 --> 00:01:15.500 not only simulates the heat retention of frontline 00:01:15.500 --> 00:01:18.959 gear, but also the lack of mobility, which is 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:21.319 imperative at operating at a high level on the 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:24.200 fire ground. Now some additional benefits include 00:01:24.200 --> 00:01:27.120 being able to doff the gear when you do get banged 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:30.219 out for a call, increasing the lifespan of your 00:01:30.219 --> 00:01:33.629 frontline bunker gear, And then also public education. 00:01:33.650 --> 00:01:35.890 Think of the number of times that we allow, for 00:01:35.890 --> 00:01:38.829 example, schoolchildren to wear our gear when 00:01:38.829 --> 00:01:41.989 it's infused with all these carcinogens. So there 00:01:41.989 --> 00:01:45.349 are so many real world applications for a fraction 00:01:45.349 --> 00:01:49.549 of the cost of IDLH rated bunker gear. So if 00:01:49.549 --> 00:01:51.469 you want to hear the whole story behind this, 00:01:51.549 --> 00:01:54.010 listen to my conversation with Ryan Conley on 00:01:54.010 --> 00:01:57.650 episode 1175 of the Behind the Shield podcast. 00:01:58.620 --> 00:02:03.819 or go to carnabunkergear .com. Welcome to the 00:02:03.819 --> 00:02:05.599 Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my name 00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:07.579 is James Geering, and this week it is my absolute 00:02:07.579 --> 00:02:10.319 honor to welcome on the show veteran British 00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:14.099 firefighter, fire service fitness advisor, and 00:02:14.099 --> 00:02:17.580 the man behind fitness for the front line, Mark 00:02:17.580 --> 00:02:20.840 Pierce. Now, in this conversation, we discuss 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:23.979 a host of topics, from his own journey into the 00:02:23.979 --> 00:02:26.560 fire service, the initial fitness standards, 00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:30.240 training a tactical athlete, hiring standards 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:33.159 and injury prevention, the importance of rest 00:02:33.159 --> 00:02:36.599 and recovery, and so much more. Now, before we 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:38.780 get to this incredible conversation, as I say 00:02:38.780 --> 00:02:42.000 every week, please just take a moment, go to 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:44.340 whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe 00:02:44.340 --> 00:02:48.000 to the show. Leave feedback and leave a rating. 00:02:48.439 --> 00:02:51.879 Every single five -star rating truly does elevate 00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:54.639 this podcast, therefore making it easier for 00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:58.300 others to find. And this is a free library of 00:02:58.300 --> 00:03:03.219 almost 1 ,200 episodes now. So all I ask in return 00:03:03.219 --> 00:03:06.479 is that you help share these incredible men and 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:09.719 women's stories so I can get them to every single 00:03:09.719 --> 00:03:12.560 person on planet Earth who needs to hear them. 00:03:12.979 --> 00:03:16.150 So with that being said... I introduce to you 00:03:16.150 --> 00:03:40.030 Mark Pearce. Enjoy. Well, Mark, I want to start 00:03:40.030 --> 00:03:42.569 by saying thank you so much for taking the time 00:03:42.569 --> 00:03:44.650 and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today. 00:03:45.969 --> 00:03:48.050 No problem. Thanks a lot for inviting me. I'm 00:03:48.050 --> 00:03:50.509 looking forward to it. So where on planet Earth 00:03:50.509 --> 00:03:53.550 are we finding you this afternoon? So I'm in 00:03:53.550 --> 00:03:55.870 the beautiful, sunny place of South Derbyshire, 00:03:55.930 --> 00:03:58.849 right in the middle of England. So although I 00:03:58.849 --> 00:04:00.810 work in Staffordshire, it's like the neighbouring 00:04:00.810 --> 00:04:04.629 sort of county, but in beautiful South Derbyshire. 00:04:05.490 --> 00:04:07.259 Brilliant. Well, let's start at the very beginning 00:04:07.259 --> 00:04:09.159 of your timeline then. So tell me where you were 00:04:09.159 --> 00:04:11.319 born and tell me a little bit about your family 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:13.599 dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings. 00:04:14.699 --> 00:04:18.040 Okay, cool. So it seems like many years ago now, 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:20.920 on a warm winter's night. No, so I was born in 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:23.759 Southampton. So although I live in the Midlands 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:25.860 now, I'm from like sort of, which is right at 00:04:25.860 --> 00:04:29.720 the bottom of England. Yep, so I was born, mum, 00:04:29.819 --> 00:04:33.620 dad, older brother. Me, mum and dad, quite a... 00:04:33.819 --> 00:04:35.839 mixed sort of background my dad was in the army 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:39.000 uh before i was born but he was he sort of went 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:40.699 sort of straight from school and he was he's 00:04:40.699 --> 00:04:42.680 from like a military sort of like a background 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:45.459 but in the like the majority of the life especially 00:04:45.459 --> 00:04:48.000 as a life as i sort of knew him he was a factory 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:50.819 worker so work sort of long shifts long hours 00:04:50.819 --> 00:04:54.220 um but sort of proper shifts not like firefighter 00:04:54.220 --> 00:04:57.060 shifts as in you know sort of half an hour break 00:04:57.060 --> 00:04:58.680 in the morning half an hour break in the afternoon 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:01.019 that type of thing my mom worked in the school 00:05:01.019 --> 00:05:05.329 as a teaching assistant So, yeah, it was a pretty 00:05:05.329 --> 00:05:07.149 good sort of childhood, really. Couldn't really 00:05:07.149 --> 00:05:10.189 complain. Didn't really ask for, didn't sort 00:05:10.189 --> 00:05:13.350 of need for much, really. And we were, my parents 00:05:13.350 --> 00:05:15.649 were quite sort of trusting parents, my mum especially. 00:05:15.870 --> 00:05:20.069 She was quite a cool mum, really. And my brother, 00:05:20.170 --> 00:05:22.029 so he's four years older than me, so he lives 00:05:22.029 --> 00:05:24.189 a bit further up in the Midlands, weirdly, so 00:05:24.189 --> 00:05:25.829 we've both sort of moved away from the South. 00:05:26.949 --> 00:05:31.069 He's an aspiring sort of writer at the moment. 00:05:31.769 --> 00:05:33.990 So he lives with his wife up north. Yep. So I 00:05:33.990 --> 00:05:37.529 live now in the Midlands for about nearly about 00:05:37.529 --> 00:05:43.310 20 years now with wife, two dogs and two kids. 00:05:44.649 --> 00:05:47.709 Brilliant. With your dad, if I think about the 00:05:47.709 --> 00:05:50.310 generation kind of before us, the Falklands War 00:05:50.310 --> 00:05:52.050 is the only conflict I think of when it comes 00:05:52.050 --> 00:05:54.889 to British that really pops to mind. Did he deploy 00:05:54.889 --> 00:05:57.990 in any combat when he was serving? Not so much 00:05:57.990 --> 00:06:00.610 Falklands, but he was in Ireland. So he was like 00:06:00.610 --> 00:06:03.829 the early 70s. So he went to Ireland a lot, you 00:06:03.829 --> 00:06:05.730 know, a lot of the peak of the IRA and things 00:06:05.730 --> 00:06:09.550 like that. It's very frustrating because my parents 00:06:09.550 --> 00:06:12.050 have both passed now. So when I was younger, 00:06:12.329 --> 00:06:14.009 I obviously sort of knew my dad was in the army. 00:06:14.050 --> 00:06:15.550 We talked a little bit about it, but not much. 00:06:15.629 --> 00:06:18.189 When you're a kid, you know, you're doing other 00:06:18.189 --> 00:06:22.490 things. The older I get. I would love to now 00:06:22.490 --> 00:06:24.990 to sort of spend hours with him and pick his 00:06:24.990 --> 00:06:26.529 brains because he was never arrogant about it. 00:06:26.550 --> 00:06:28.569 He never really told stories as most sort of 00:06:28.569 --> 00:06:30.730 military people don't. They're not the loudest 00:06:30.730 --> 00:06:33.069 people in the room. Yet when you really sort 00:06:33.069 --> 00:06:34.730 of dig down on what they've seen and dealt with, 00:06:34.769 --> 00:06:36.350 you think, Jesus, how are you still a functioning 00:06:36.350 --> 00:06:39.029 bloke? Because I remember there's a, I don't 00:06:39.029 --> 00:06:40.269 know if it was a big film in America, but there 00:06:40.269 --> 00:06:44.730 was a film called 71. And it's basically set 00:06:44.730 --> 00:06:47.079 about the conflict in Ireland. And I told my 00:06:47.079 --> 00:06:50.279 dad about it and it's loosely based on the truth. 00:06:50.459 --> 00:06:52.120 And I started to say a couple of things that 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:54.160 was in the film. And he said, oh, yeah, yeah, 00:06:54.199 --> 00:06:56.259 I saw something like that. Oh, yeah, I saw a 00:06:56.259 --> 00:06:58.040 mate of mine got sort of blew up down an alley 00:06:58.040 --> 00:06:59.620 and things like that. And I was sort of spat 00:06:59.620 --> 00:07:01.680 in the street. And you think, well, you've never 00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:04.540 mentioned this before. And it was so sort of 00:07:04.540 --> 00:07:08.680 blasé. But yeah, so he never spoke about it much. 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:11.279 But like I say, the older I get now, I would 00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:13.399 have loved to have found out what he actually 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:16.680 got up to. It's so interesting. I've had people 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:21.279 on here that were regular military, SAS, on that 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:23.079 side talking about Northern Ireland. I've had 00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:26.279 people talking about growing up in Belfast and 00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:29.779 the other side of it. And it's just so mad to 00:07:29.779 --> 00:07:31.540 me. It really is. I've said this. People say, 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:33.639 oh, do you be an English? Do you hate the Welsh? 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:34.860 Do you hate the Scottish? Do you hate the Irish? 00:07:35.100 --> 00:07:38.339 And I'm like, no. We live on two tiny rocks in 00:07:38.339 --> 00:07:41.319 the middle of the sea. We're all the same people. 00:07:41.379 --> 00:07:43.860 But how that got to the point, and we obviously 00:07:43.860 --> 00:07:46.220 understand some of the rough history of the occupation 00:07:46.220 --> 00:07:49.660 and where we are today, but that you have whatever 00:07:49.660 --> 00:07:52.180 you want to call all four countries, let's just 00:07:52.180 --> 00:07:57.100 say the United Isles of the sea, literally fighting 00:07:57.100 --> 00:07:59.540 each other. And even the Welsh borders and the 00:07:59.540 --> 00:08:03.209 Scottish borders. that people that are such close 00:08:03.209 --> 00:08:05.829 proximity would be set against each other for, 00:08:05.829 --> 00:08:07.970 you know, really, for people that live in castles 00:08:07.970 --> 00:08:11.129 to get more money and power. Yeah, and it's quite 00:08:11.129 --> 00:08:12.970 sort of scary how sort of quickly it snowballs 00:08:12.970 --> 00:08:14.790 as well. So, again, I don't know the ins and 00:08:14.790 --> 00:08:16.829 outs of the history, but especially the island 00:08:16.829 --> 00:08:18.649 thing, it just seemed to escalate and escalate. 00:08:19.310 --> 00:08:22.170 And, you know, I suppose it happens sort of now. 00:08:22.250 --> 00:08:24.329 You dig down, you think it's like sort of good 00:08:24.329 --> 00:08:26.069 versus evil, but it's never that sort of black 00:08:26.069 --> 00:08:28.720 and white. There's always a... a politics reason 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:31.300 or a money reason or you know and now there's 00:08:31.300 --> 00:08:33.240 a lot of oil sort of talk and things like that 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:36.039 is there isn't like the good versus bad kind 00:08:36.039 --> 00:08:38.720 of battle and that's you know that's the the 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:40.559 weird thing about the about the military I mean 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:42.620 I admire anyone who goes in there to be fair 00:08:42.620 --> 00:08:44.820 is something I've never done and could never 00:08:44.820 --> 00:08:50.799 do but then I always wonder if they feel You 00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:53.000 know, like when they are sort of sent out to 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:54.799 places, you think, do you actually know what 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:56.480 you're fighting for? And I think it's such a 00:08:56.480 --> 00:09:00.200 blurred line now. Why are we going over to this 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:01.899 sort of remote country in the middle of nowhere 00:09:01.899 --> 00:09:05.120 to try and solve a conflict that we're essentially 00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:07.820 picking aside? And it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable. 00:09:08.220 --> 00:09:09.659 So it'd be interesting to see if people within 00:09:09.659 --> 00:09:12.759 the military sort of feel the same. Yeah, I know. 00:09:12.820 --> 00:09:14.700 I mean, I've had so many veterans on the show 00:09:14.700 --> 00:09:17.820 and, you know, especially Iraq. you know that 00:09:17.820 --> 00:09:19.679 why were we there because they were lied to they 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:21.620 were blatantly lied to we know that not only 00:09:21.620 --> 00:09:24.200 was it kind of coupled into the response to 9 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:27.340 11 two completely different countries but also 00:09:27.340 --> 00:09:29.139 the weapons of mass destruction and some of these 00:09:29.139 --> 00:09:31.000 other things you know these these men that lost 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:34.399 friends over there you know and lost um allied 00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:36.659 forces over there they worked alongside and saw 00:09:36.659 --> 00:09:40.190 you know iraqis killed all over this this conflict. 00:09:40.289 --> 00:09:41.950 And then they come, you know, 20 years later, 00:09:42.009 --> 00:09:43.669 they really are left with the question of what 00:09:43.669 --> 00:09:45.730 was it all for? And I totally get it. And they, 00:09:45.750 --> 00:09:47.629 and they absolutely made a difference in the 00:09:47.629 --> 00:09:49.549 micro areas when they were protecting people 00:09:49.549 --> 00:09:52.090 in certain communities, but the mission that 00:09:52.090 --> 00:09:54.529 they were told, you know, the cups moved and 00:09:54.529 --> 00:09:56.269 all of a sudden it wasn't the same anymore. And 00:09:56.269 --> 00:09:58.389 I think that we talk from a mental health, moral 00:09:58.389 --> 00:10:00.490 injury point of view, that must be crushing to 00:10:00.490 --> 00:10:03.820 a soldier. yeah and i don't know how you because 00:10:03.820 --> 00:10:06.419 i always just sort of hear stories of people 00:10:06.419 --> 00:10:07.960 who when they when they come out of that environment 00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:09.879 then they're sort of down sort of tesco's and 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:11.179 they're doing the shopping and taking the kids 00:10:11.179 --> 00:10:14.220 to school to go from that to that it must have 00:10:14.220 --> 00:10:17.139 your brain copes because you get into a and we 00:10:17.139 --> 00:10:19.320 we experience it in the fire service and in a 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:21.419 microcosm i'm not comparing it to the military 00:10:21.419 --> 00:10:23.100 at all but when you're on a job no matter how 00:10:23.100 --> 00:10:24.980 sort of bad it is you're in sort of work zone 00:10:24.980 --> 00:10:27.059 and you sort of you don't really see the bodies 00:10:27.059 --> 00:10:28.259 and the dead people on that because you've got 00:10:28.259 --> 00:10:30.259 a job to do and you're there for like an hour 00:10:30.259 --> 00:10:32.620 or two or three hours or whatever but then but 00:10:32.620 --> 00:10:34.120 then you come back and it's only when you sort 00:10:34.120 --> 00:10:36.460 of sat down with a with a brew and you start 00:10:36.460 --> 00:10:38.279 to think jesus christ that was a dangerous one 00:10:38.279 --> 00:10:41.080 oh jesus that that that family's had their lives 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:44.320 sort of turned inside out but it's that times 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:45.899 a million in the military i imagine because it's 00:10:45.899 --> 00:10:49.259 whole countries and regions and areas And as 00:10:49.259 --> 00:10:52.460 you say, because most military battles, battles 00:10:52.460 --> 00:10:54.679 or conflicts, if you like, they tend to start 00:10:54.679 --> 00:10:56.360 with a plan and the prime minister or the president 00:10:56.360 --> 00:10:57.840 will come out and say, yeah, we've got a two 00:10:57.840 --> 00:10:59.340 year plan, three year plan, then we're going 00:10:59.340 --> 00:11:01.940 to withdraw after this many years. I don't think 00:11:01.940 --> 00:11:03.620 there's been one that's been as tidy as that. 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:05.700 And even when they've left, it's still in the 00:11:05.700 --> 00:11:08.779 same state. So there never seems to be a, it's 00:11:08.779 --> 00:11:10.580 not like, you know, it sounds like a good old 00:11:10.580 --> 00:11:12.700 sort of classic, like the World Wars, but that 00:11:12.700 --> 00:11:15.220 was like. It was a bit more sort of black and 00:11:15.220 --> 00:11:17.159 white then. I mean, I was a winner, you know, 00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:19.159 but the knock on of that, I don't think wars 00:11:19.159 --> 00:11:21.500 happen like that anymore. It just seems to be 00:11:21.500 --> 00:11:24.779 a lot more sort of messy and blurred and very 00:11:24.779 --> 00:11:26.639 uncomfortable sort of viewing from the outside. 00:11:27.799 --> 00:11:31.399 I saw a statistic the other day. The Russians 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:35.620 have now lost 1 .2 million people in the conflict 00:11:35.620 --> 00:11:39.960 so far. And again, you think about how many Russian, 00:11:40.100 --> 00:11:43.159 let's say young men. woke up and went you know 00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:46.399 what i'd love to do today is invade ukraine like 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:48.700 i would have i would imagine very very very few 00:11:48.700 --> 00:11:51.820 so this is what's so tragic is when some of these 00:11:51.820 --> 00:11:54.379 people make these decisions you know and these 00:11:54.379 --> 00:11:56.399 decisions don't involve their own children going 00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:59.399 to war you know we see this history repeats itself 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:02.159 ireland gaza you know ukraine i mean over and 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:04.919 over and over again the cycle of division and 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:08.350 war and as you said and it never And I think, 00:12:08.350 --> 00:12:09.830 you know, even with the Bible, I was talking 00:12:09.830 --> 00:12:12.309 to some people recently, I'm not super religious, 00:12:12.389 --> 00:12:14.710 but to me, I feel like the old Testament is like, 00:12:14.750 --> 00:12:16.750 here's how we used to do it. And it didn't fucking 00:12:16.750 --> 00:12:20.049 work because everyone kept dying. So here's Jesus 00:12:20.049 --> 00:12:22.950 love, compassion, kindness, community service, 00:12:23.129 --> 00:12:25.730 you know, try that, try that instead. I think 00:12:25.730 --> 00:12:26.929 you're going to have a lot more luck with that 00:12:26.929 --> 00:12:29.090 than continuously torturing and killing each 00:12:29.090 --> 00:12:33.250 other. Yeah, exactly. I just think that the reach 00:12:33.250 --> 00:12:36.019 is a lot sort of. of smaller i think you know 00:12:36.019 --> 00:12:39.220 just sort of look after your friends your family 00:12:39.220 --> 00:12:41.759 your community and go from there i don't like 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:44.340 this sort of massive outreach all the time i 00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:46.220 don't know just i don't know the ins and outs 00:12:46.220 --> 00:12:47.779 of it i don't to be honest i'm not a big fan 00:12:47.779 --> 00:12:49.399 of the news in terms of because it just depresses 00:12:49.399 --> 00:12:51.740 me you know so i try and keep out of it as much 00:12:51.740 --> 00:12:54.379 as possible i don't tend to not i'm not there's 00:12:54.379 --> 00:12:56.179 not many things i get really sort of passionate 00:12:56.179 --> 00:12:57.820 on one side of the fence because it's the information 00:12:57.820 --> 00:13:00.179 that we're fed as well yeah i'm very sort of 00:13:00.179 --> 00:13:02.320 did this sort of trustful of the media and things 00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:03.759 like that and even no matter how sort of black 00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:05.659 and white it looks like on the bbc or whatever 00:13:05.659 --> 00:13:08.419 i'm thinking yeah but if you watch sort of something 00:13:08.419 --> 00:13:10.480 else they've got the completely the like the 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:12.879 other side and the other view so i think what 00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:16.519 we're told is very selective and you know as 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:18.740 you mentioned like the stuff for tony blair and 00:13:18.740 --> 00:13:21.139 the and the weapons of mass destruction for years 00:13:21.139 --> 00:13:23.860 and years and it turned out it was a massive 00:13:23.860 --> 00:13:25.820 lie and it was the whole thing was built on it 00:13:25.820 --> 00:13:27.399 and we were told that they were this this big 00:13:27.399 --> 00:13:29.039 sort of scary country with all these sort of 00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:32.090 bombs it turns out it wasn't that at all and 00:13:32.090 --> 00:13:34.750 you think oh i don't know so i get a bit sort 00:13:34.750 --> 00:13:37.970 of like a was it in is it an ostrich that sticks 00:13:37.970 --> 00:13:39.509 his head in the sand is it i'm a bit sort of 00:13:39.509 --> 00:13:40.929 like you know i'll sort of deal with it when 00:13:40.929 --> 00:13:42.809 it affects me but i just prefer to look after 00:13:42.809 --> 00:13:45.450 myself and my own and then sort of look too far 00:13:45.450 --> 00:13:48.210 afield yeah well i think that's it they say you 00:13:48.210 --> 00:13:50.549 want to change the world start at home but we've 00:13:50.549 --> 00:13:52.210 also got to look at history and go okay this 00:13:52.210 --> 00:13:54.230 same thing keeps happening the next time someone 00:13:55.149 --> 00:13:57.210 rises up and said they're going to be the leader 00:13:57.210 --> 00:13:58.929 of everyone else and here's what you need to 00:13:58.929 --> 00:14:02.370 do maybe just maybe we need to as you said focus 00:14:02.370 --> 00:14:04.610 on our communities and stop picking fights with 00:14:04.610 --> 00:14:08.549 other countries yeah definitely all right well 00:14:08.549 --> 00:14:10.970 then what about sports and exercise what were 00:14:10.970 --> 00:14:14.169 you playing and doing school age so it's a bit 00:14:14.169 --> 00:14:15.889 strange at school because i was quite well i 00:14:15.889 --> 00:14:19.870 was really overweight at school um but i played 00:14:19.870 --> 00:14:21.909 a lot of sport at the same time so i was never 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:24.740 I was never sort of like the kid at the back. 00:14:24.899 --> 00:14:27.440 I played a lot of football, a bit of tennis and 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:30.220 basketball and things like that. But I was really 00:14:30.220 --> 00:14:32.039 shy. And whether that was sort of linked to me 00:14:32.039 --> 00:14:33.799 weight, I don't know. But I was really shy. But 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:37.039 I was in a lot of semi -cool groups, if you like, 00:14:37.100 --> 00:14:38.559 always at the back. I was never at the forefront 00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:41.039 or anything. So I played a lot of sport, was 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:44.759 okay for football. But I think my nerves and 00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:47.179 my shyness sort of held me back. So I played 00:14:47.179 --> 00:14:49.259 for the odd team here and there, but not really 00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:53.039 consistently. So I was fitter than I looked, 00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:54.879 which is pretty much the same as now, really, 00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:56.639 because I'm not one of those with a six pack 00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:58.000 and things like that, but I can handle myself 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:00.399 in the gym and things. But yeah, so I played 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:02.220 a lot. I loved sport in terms of sort of watching 00:15:02.220 --> 00:15:04.240 it and was obsessed with it, as with most kids 00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:06.620 sort of growing up in the late 80s and 90s, obsessed 00:15:06.620 --> 00:15:09.399 with football. And me and my brother used to 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:11.279 collect all the stickers and watch every game 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:15.600 that was on and things like that. But it kind 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:17.379 of, it was more of a love of sport and it was 00:15:17.379 --> 00:15:21.080 something, and we're sort of, touch on it a bit 00:15:21.080 --> 00:15:23.299 sort of later about about my career now but I 00:15:23.299 --> 00:15:26.820 like the I was obsessed with the idea of of being 00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:28.919 a footballer and I like I like my sort of music 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:30.899 as well so I like I was obsessed with the idea 00:15:30.899 --> 00:15:35.639 of being not being famous but fascinated by the 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:37.440 persona of people and I used to sort of read 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:39.960 autobiographies and stuff like that and and to 00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:42.940 know what it was like and the good side and bad 00:15:42.940 --> 00:15:45.740 side of all that sort of side of it I found it 00:15:45.740 --> 00:15:48.980 all quite fascinating. and move jumping right 00:15:48.980 --> 00:15:51.360 the way forward like i say we can't catch a minute 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:54.100 but where i am now in like going down i admire 00:15:54.100 --> 00:15:57.019 the a lot of the academic side of work and what 00:15:57.019 --> 00:15:59.559 i do and that's what i sort of envy now and that's 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:01.120 what i look at people who are doing all these 00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:03.620 like research sort of projects and working universities 00:16:03.620 --> 00:16:06.600 in a weird way i've got the same thing i used 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:08.960 to sort of look at footballers and i have to 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:10.379 look now i think i'd love to make a difference 00:16:10.379 --> 00:16:12.860 i'd love to get involved in that so i've always 00:16:12.860 --> 00:16:14.980 been on the outside sort of looking in but i've 00:16:14.980 --> 00:16:18.259 never had an interest of being I've never been 00:16:18.259 --> 00:16:20.740 the loudest person in the room and things like 00:16:20.740 --> 00:16:22.539 that. And it's never really sort of interested 00:16:22.539 --> 00:16:24.639 me. But at the same time, I've been sort of fascinated 00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:27.360 by people who were like that and the super talented 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:29.580 people in the world. I find that really interesting 00:16:29.580 --> 00:16:31.279 to watch someone be really good at something. 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:34.960 Have you, by any chance, watched the show Welcome 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:37.879 to Wrexham? Yes. Well, I watched the first couple 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:41.029 of series, but yeah. I was blown away. So I grew 00:16:41.029 --> 00:16:43.289 up, my dad wasn't a big football fan. We watched 00:16:43.289 --> 00:16:45.169 football, but he certainly didn't have a team. 00:16:45.250 --> 00:16:47.389 He didn't ever go see, you know, live events. 00:16:47.429 --> 00:16:49.129 And even when I was little, Bath was winning 00:16:49.129 --> 00:16:50.889 all the rugby games, but we never really watched 00:16:50.889 --> 00:16:54.429 that either. And so, you know, fast forward now, 00:16:54.470 --> 00:16:56.809 I'm 51 and I'm watching this show. I've been 00:16:56.809 --> 00:16:59.029 binge watching it. It started season one, I don't 00:16:59.029 --> 00:17:03.470 know, like a week ago. But it was such a beautiful 00:17:03.470 --> 00:17:08.269 insight into what football used to mean. Before, 00:17:08.309 --> 00:17:10.509 like you said, the fame and the million -dollar 00:17:10.509 --> 00:17:13.309 salaries and all that stuff, or pound salaries, 00:17:13.529 --> 00:17:17.690 where that would be miners or steelworkers or 00:17:17.690 --> 00:17:20.029 whatever it was all going to the game, having 00:17:20.029 --> 00:17:22.089 a pint, going to watch the game and be able to 00:17:22.089 --> 00:17:25.529 let off some steam. And then how that factored 00:17:25.529 --> 00:17:28.890 into the industry in that village or town as 00:17:28.890 --> 00:17:33.329 well. So I've been blown away how well they've 00:17:33.329 --> 00:17:36.109 portrayed that human element on a game that's 00:17:36.109 --> 00:17:39.539 so, so... prestigious now and there's so much 00:17:39.539 --> 00:17:41.859 money in it and it's owned by billionaires, most 00:17:41.859 --> 00:17:44.359 of the teams, but at its root for them to be 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:46.019 able to show the history and take this small 00:17:46.019 --> 00:17:48.339 team that still has that kind of element about 00:17:48.339 --> 00:17:51.799 it and then help them elevate. I mean, it's one 00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:53.940 of the best things I've seen on television for 00:17:53.940 --> 00:17:56.500 a while. And they kept, you know, Ryan and Rob, 00:17:56.660 --> 00:17:58.880 you know, these big Hollywood A -listers. Yes, 00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:01.019 they're in it, of course, but I love the way 00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:02.819 that they haven't put themselves front and center. 00:18:02.859 --> 00:18:05.200 They put the team and the town front and center. 00:18:06.320 --> 00:18:08.160 Yeah, I was just going to say that. Although 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:10.079 it's about football and they're in it, they're 00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:11.640 not really the point of it. It's to follow the 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:13.220 characters. And I love the way that they pick 00:18:13.220 --> 00:18:15.400 the same fans and follow them week in, week out. 00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:16.960 Because there's another one, it was probably 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:19.920 10 years ago, called Sunderland Till I Die. And 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:22.019 obviously it was about Sunderland. It's on Netflix. 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:24.099 And that was, again, exactly the same. So I think 00:18:24.099 --> 00:18:26.359 that was the predecessor to Welcome to Wrexham. 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:29.099 But it would sort of... follow the fans who were 00:18:29.099 --> 00:18:31.259 getting ready in the morning or saturday morning 00:18:31.259 --> 00:18:32.900 and getting on the coach and getting on the bus 00:18:32.900 --> 00:18:34.900 or getting the train and they're all as you say 00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:37.000 they're all sort of working class and there's 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:39.220 loads of sort of banter and sense of humor and 00:18:39.220 --> 00:18:43.240 things like that and you think you forget what 00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:46.680 it means to people because it is obsessive it 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:49.079 is a spot i mean i've the older i've got i've 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:51.339 got sort of less interested and i think it's 00:18:51.339 --> 00:18:53.720 because of what you said i think because it's 00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:57.220 It's a business now and it's all about the footballers 00:18:57.220 --> 00:19:00.779 and they're all like brands and I just don't 00:19:00.779 --> 00:19:02.279 get the same sort of love on it. And whether 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:03.859 it's got other things, obviously with kids and 00:19:03.859 --> 00:19:05.440 jobs and everything sort of gets in the way, 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:07.359 gets in the way, that sounds horrible, but you 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:09.859 know what I mean? a lot your priorities change 00:19:09.859 --> 00:19:13.660 um but it's just not the same and i like to look 00:19:13.660 --> 00:19:15.859 back and watch all the old sort of 90s games 00:19:15.859 --> 00:19:17.880 and when when they're being sort of interviewed 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:20.079 onto tv sort of like the good old days but whether 00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:22.160 every generation does the same i don't know so 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:24.640 whether the kids now in 20 30 years time are 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:26.299 going to look back how would you like to remember 00:19:26.299 --> 00:19:28.980 this and remember that but it it's just too shiny 00:19:28.980 --> 00:19:32.480 now too corporate and too like they're not owned 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:34.869 by the by a local sort of businessman anymore 00:19:34.869 --> 00:19:36.849 they're owned by as you say sort of trillionaires 00:19:36.849 --> 00:19:38.990 around the country it's a business opportunity 00:19:38.990 --> 00:19:41.009 really it's not for the love for the love of 00:19:41.009 --> 00:19:44.109 the club and it's it it has changed I think that's 00:19:44.109 --> 00:19:46.190 a reflection in society though I think there's 00:19:46.190 --> 00:19:49.670 sort of so much now that it's just too everything 00:19:49.670 --> 00:19:51.890 whether that's down to social media and things 00:19:51.890 --> 00:19:53.849 like that without sort of sound like an old git 00:19:53.849 --> 00:19:57.130 but It just, everything is too sort of temporary 00:19:57.130 --> 00:20:00.430 and shiny and all for show. And look how great 00:20:00.430 --> 00:20:03.809 my life is where there isn't any harm in sort 00:20:03.809 --> 00:20:06.630 of struggling or seeing somebody, you know, sort 00:20:06.630 --> 00:20:08.670 of achieve something that's kind of small for 00:20:08.670 --> 00:20:11.529 them, but still sort of really impressive. I 00:20:11.529 --> 00:20:13.269 think there's a yearning to go back to that. 00:20:13.369 --> 00:20:15.190 I've said this many times. It's kind of one of 00:20:15.190 --> 00:20:17.109 the themes that's just, you know, common at the 00:20:17.109 --> 00:20:21.480 moment. we were young we had blue peter we had 00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:23.559 john craven's news round we had comic relief 00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:26.819 we had live aid you know we had people doing 00:20:26.819 --> 00:20:28.920 nice things to other people and some of them 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:32.099 were you know several continents away but we 00:20:32.099 --> 00:20:35.319 cared as a shared humanity and i agree we've 00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:38.299 got the i've said this recently a lot you know 00:20:38.299 --> 00:20:40.380 the monopoly having all the money has been put 00:20:40.380 --> 00:20:42.359 on the pedestal like in the business world that's 00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:44.420 the thing to take all the money from everyone 00:20:44.420 --> 00:20:47.190 else you're the winner Instead of, as we know, 00:20:47.250 --> 00:20:49.210 what works well around the world is each village 00:20:49.210 --> 00:20:51.869 has its own butcher and baker and et cetera, 00:20:51.950 --> 00:20:55.990 et cetera. And this young generation from the 00:20:55.990 --> 00:20:58.650 technology, I'm seeing that they are going into 00:20:58.650 --> 00:21:00.750 the trades because they're seeing that education, 00:21:01.130 --> 00:21:03.490 unless you want to be a doctor or a lawyer or 00:21:03.490 --> 00:21:05.430 something, a lot of these tracks don't result 00:21:05.430 --> 00:21:09.190 in any real guarantee of a job. And then there's 00:21:09.190 --> 00:21:13.859 a romanticizing of... our childhood so cassettes 00:21:13.859 --> 00:21:17.240 and records and you know the music and the films 00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:20.779 and getting back to that so i think that this 00:21:20.779 --> 00:21:22.579 this whole thing i'm excited because i think 00:21:22.579 --> 00:21:25.039 it's gonna collapse in a good way like the the 00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:28.240 greed for having all the money to be you know 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:30.319 everyone looking at you on social media whatever 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:32.579 and people just going back to the community that 00:21:32.579 --> 00:21:34.500 really is at the core of being a human being 00:21:35.799 --> 00:21:38.059 Yes, it does seem more like a bit of a phase 00:21:38.059 --> 00:21:40.440 now. So a lot of kids are drawn in by it, but 00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:43.319 then they soon sort of come out the other side. 00:21:43.460 --> 00:21:45.920 I do think it's down to your upbringing as well. 00:21:46.039 --> 00:21:49.339 So like my daughter, for example, she really 00:21:49.339 --> 00:21:53.180 loves Harry Styles and all that kind of still, 00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:55.740 but she really likes her old sort of music as 00:21:55.740 --> 00:21:57.460 well, her music that her mum used to listen to 00:21:57.460 --> 00:22:01.160 and a lot when we were sort of growing up. So 00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:04.579 there is definitely a coolness in the retro. 00:22:05.420 --> 00:22:07.559 in the nostalgic and i do think that hopefully 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:10.099 is a thing that kind of sticks around because 00:22:10.099 --> 00:22:12.460 for the same of us growing up we like the odd 00:22:12.460 --> 00:22:14.799 sort of see it was kind of cool to like the who 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:17.680 and the jam and the beatles or whatever and this 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:19.759 is the equivalent now so they might be sort of 00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:22.059 listening to kind of like the cure or the smiths 00:22:22.059 --> 00:22:23.880 or something like that so it does sort of knock 00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:27.059 on um i just i think i think my biggest fear 00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:30.680 is the is the comparison where everyone only 00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:32.980 puts on like the best bit about their life and 00:22:32.980 --> 00:22:34.839 then so everyone sort of has a glance at it and 00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:36.960 think that's normal and think you know to kind 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:39.079 of look whether it's to look a particular way 00:22:39.079 --> 00:22:41.019 or earn an amount of money or drive the best 00:22:41.019 --> 00:22:44.220 car and that's starting to rub off I think kids 00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:45.839 because they want the best car they you know 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:47.359 they can't have a banger for example for their 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:49.140 first car and bum around for a couple of years 00:22:49.140 --> 00:22:51.119 that a lot they want the really nice cars with 00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:53.240 all the bells and whistles on and that's what 00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:55.480 kind of I think there's no sort of working for 00:22:55.480 --> 00:23:00.089 stuff anymore whether because because maybe me 00:23:00.089 --> 00:23:01.509 and the missus had a conversation the other day 00:23:01.509 --> 00:23:04.089 about sort of work and that as well so when we 00:23:04.089 --> 00:23:06.349 when we went to school then we you might have 00:23:06.349 --> 00:23:08.769 gone to college and i did go to uni so sort of 00:23:08.769 --> 00:23:10.490 many many years ago but it was it wasn't sort 00:23:10.490 --> 00:23:13.089 of forced on me but then as soon as i finished 00:23:13.089 --> 00:23:16.950 whatever education it was just to get a job and 00:23:16.950 --> 00:23:18.650 you at first thought it wasn't a conversation 00:23:18.650 --> 00:23:21.450 with your parents or you didn't sort of do a 00:23:21.450 --> 00:23:23.009 little part -time job here it was just i'm going 00:23:23.009 --> 00:23:25.269 to get any kind of job i can to earn money because 00:23:25.269 --> 00:23:27.450 my next sort of stage is moving out and it was 00:23:27.450 --> 00:23:29.589 like sort of natural when now it seems more normal 00:23:29.589 --> 00:23:31.970 for kids to do sort of little part -time jobs 00:23:31.970 --> 00:23:33.710 and sort of stay at home a little bit longer 00:23:33.710 --> 00:23:35.789 half of it is the house prices i know because 00:23:35.789 --> 00:23:37.990 they're because they're sort of like ridiculous 00:23:37.990 --> 00:23:41.789 but i don't know that there doesn't seem to be 00:23:41.789 --> 00:23:43.670 that drive to be sort of self -sufficient anymore 00:23:43.670 --> 00:23:46.130 because we've all gone a bit nice and we're all 00:23:46.539 --> 00:23:49.559 quite happy to live in our sort of mid 20s late 00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:51.680 20s with our parents when i thought when when 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:53.000 did that happen because i wanted to get out as 00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:56.180 soon as possible and i had good parents so do 00:23:56.180 --> 00:23:58.460 you know what i mean so it's that kind of of 00:23:58.460 --> 00:24:00.400 self -sufficiency i think that a lot of young 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.299 people don't really strive for nowadays yeah 00:24:03.299 --> 00:24:05.339 well both my boys are chomping at the bit one 00:24:05.339 --> 00:24:07.079 left he was a little bit older he was about 20 00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:10.420 um but my 18 year old was trying to go to college 00:24:10.420 --> 00:24:12.079 it just didn't make any sense on paper to do 00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:14.519 the first year first two years in a different 00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:17.579 state But the moment he's finished his second 00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:21.380 year, he's out. But that's the ideal thing, isn't 00:24:21.380 --> 00:24:23.920 it? But what I think is silly, though, is if 00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:26.420 you live in the same town and you're not married 00:24:26.420 --> 00:24:30.500 or have kids, then don't move out and pay a crazy 00:24:30.500 --> 00:24:33.059 amount for a one -bedroom flat. Because I think 00:24:33.059 --> 00:24:34.799 you see some of the cultures that have the multi 00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:37.039 -generational households, and it makes a lot 00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:40.930 more sense financially. a partner and children 00:24:40.930 --> 00:24:43.049 of course then absolutely you need your own space 00:24:43.049 --> 00:24:45.210 or you go into somewhere else you know in the 00:24:45.210 --> 00:24:47.869 country or overseas and yeah i think that's another 00:24:47.869 --> 00:24:49.970 another good one but the other side of the coin 00:24:49.970 --> 00:24:52.609 i think is you know immediately flinging them 00:24:52.609 --> 00:24:55.049 out when they're 18 and they get down the road 00:24:55.049 --> 00:24:57.569 yeah no but there are people that do that oh 00:24:57.569 --> 00:25:00.529 as soon as they took them out so yeah but financially 00:25:00.529 --> 00:25:02.789 now you just you just put them in debt from the 00:25:02.789 --> 00:25:04.950 moment they they started working and they're 00:25:04.950 --> 00:25:07.329 on a map for the rest of their life yeah yeah 00:25:07.329 --> 00:25:11.180 yeah We can't account for sort of life experience. 00:25:11.259 --> 00:25:14.559 I don't think there's, I don't know, I think 00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:16.720 there isn't a right way and there isn't a wrong 00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:18.019 way. Well, there is a wrong way, obviously, but, 00:25:18.059 --> 00:25:19.980 you know, in terms of sort of life experience, 00:25:20.099 --> 00:25:23.059 because it's like me lad, he's at uni at the 00:25:23.059 --> 00:25:25.920 moment. And he's got an opportunity to kind of 00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:27.700 take a year out and go and play sort of rugby 00:25:27.700 --> 00:25:29.740 in sort of Australia and New Zealand, but he's 00:25:29.740 --> 00:25:32.220 not going. And it's like inside, I'm like, obviously 00:25:32.220 --> 00:25:33.680 it's his choice. I can't make it, but I think 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:34.980 he's never going to get that opportunity again. 00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:36.779 And it's nice and controlled and it'll be sort 00:25:36.779 --> 00:25:39.380 of subsidized and it'll be arranged sort of through 00:25:39.380 --> 00:25:42.079 the uni. And he was like, no, no, I'm fine. I've 00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:43.279 got a girlfriend. I'm here. Do you know what 00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:45.779 I mean? He's quite happy. And inside I'm like, 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:47.819 oh my God, I would have sort of killed for that 00:25:47.819 --> 00:25:52.019 at that age. But it's not really for the... Not 00:25:52.019 --> 00:25:53.720 that he's going to get much out of it work -wise 00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:56.799 or anything, but the life experience of learning 00:25:56.799 --> 00:25:58.799 on your own and being in the nuisance of surroundings 00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:00.500 and having to, you know what I mean, you can't 00:26:00.500 --> 00:26:03.039 rely on your parents as much as it kills me and 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:04.660 would scare the life out of me and I'd hate it 00:26:04.660 --> 00:26:07.319 every day he's not here. On the same time, the 00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:09.640 amount of sort of like a value. So I think, you 00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:11.880 know, I think there is a bit of value and a bit 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:13.619 of distress, but not too much. Like I say, I'm 00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:15.180 not saying to kick every sort of kid out as soon 00:26:15.180 --> 00:26:16.700 as they're sort of 16, that's it, out the door. 00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:19.450 I'm not fucking commuting that. Yeah, no, I agree 00:26:19.450 --> 00:26:22.210 completely. What about career aspirations? Were 00:26:22.210 --> 00:26:23.930 you thinking of the fire service when you were 00:26:23.930 --> 00:26:25.390 still in school or was there something else in 00:26:25.390 --> 00:26:29.650 your mind? No, not at all. Never even crossed 00:26:29.650 --> 00:26:33.470 my mind. So my path was sort of media. So it's 00:26:33.470 --> 00:26:36.089 in terms of behind the camera. So my dream job 00:26:36.089 --> 00:26:38.470 at school would have been writing and producing 00:26:38.470 --> 00:26:42.650 films and TV. That was 100 % probably really 00:26:42.650 --> 00:26:45.750 from a young age is what I wanted to do. And 00:26:45.750 --> 00:26:48.289 that's what I did at uni. So my degree isn't 00:26:48.289 --> 00:26:50.289 anything to do with what I'm doing now. It's 00:26:50.289 --> 00:26:53.190 a media and film degree. And that was my plan. 00:26:54.690 --> 00:26:58.269 And then I moved up into the Midlands with my 00:26:58.269 --> 00:27:02.609 ex -partner. We had a child. And then her family, 00:27:02.690 --> 00:27:07.710 her dad was a firefighter. So we started to talk 00:27:07.710 --> 00:27:10.450 a little bit about the job and things like that. 00:27:10.490 --> 00:27:12.150 So I thought, I'll go for it as I'm up here. 00:27:12.210 --> 00:27:15.039 So it wasn't really a... Not in a blasé way, 00:27:15.140 --> 00:27:16.900 but because I spoke to a lot of people and they 00:27:16.900 --> 00:27:19.799 said, oh, yeah, I tried three or four times to 00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:22.400 get in, sometimes more. I thought, I'll go for 00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:25.079 it. I won't get in. And then I'll just sort of 00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:26.460 learn from it and then move on. And I don't know 00:27:26.460 --> 00:27:28.740 if that helped because I was sort of super relaxed. 00:27:29.460 --> 00:27:32.799 So expecting to kind of not get the job. I got 00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:35.359 in first time, which is amazing. And then so 00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:37.799 I've never looked back since then. But no, it 00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:42.970 wasn't a thing at school, really. yeah it wasn't 00:27:42.970 --> 00:27:46.869 really even sort of mentioned I was much more 00:27:46.869 --> 00:27:49.349 you know I had this sort of dream because I like 00:27:49.349 --> 00:27:52.329 to say I was obsessed with the obsessed I like 00:27:52.329 --> 00:27:56.430 the world of sort of films and tv but I wasn't 00:27:56.430 --> 00:27:57.869 sort of brave enough to be in front of the camera 00:27:57.869 --> 00:27:59.829 or anything like that so but to be in that world 00:27:59.829 --> 00:28:02.170 to be part of a team so that's the sort of crossover 00:28:02.170 --> 00:28:04.670 I can sense with the fire service is obviously 00:28:04.670 --> 00:28:07.650 it is a big team it's a big family And when I 00:28:07.650 --> 00:28:09.829 start to think about it, maybe that's what I 00:28:09.829 --> 00:28:11.529 was craving and that's what I wanted to be part 00:28:11.529 --> 00:28:14.069 of was like a team and achieving sort of something. 00:28:14.130 --> 00:28:17.049 So not directly, but there is a few sort of links. 00:28:18.309 --> 00:28:20.690 So what was the kind of front door experience 00:28:20.690 --> 00:28:24.490 for you as far as expectations from fitness levels 00:28:24.490 --> 00:28:27.109 and if any, any mental health conversations? 00:28:28.849 --> 00:28:31.890 Mental health wasn't mentioned at all. And I'd 00:28:31.890 --> 00:28:34.299 even, I mean, I'm coming up to. This year, I'll 00:28:34.299 --> 00:28:36.200 be 20 years in the fire service, and I'd probably 00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:39.819 say the last 10 years, it's become normal. Even 00:28:39.819 --> 00:28:42.539 in the job, it's not been talked about that much. 00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:49.000 Fitness, again, it wasn't prescriptive. It's 00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:51.720 2006, I joined. There obviously was the internet 00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:53.980 and things like that, but it wasn't everything 00:28:53.980 --> 00:28:58.000 now. You can sort yourself out online. You can 00:28:58.000 --> 00:28:59.880 get training plans and things like that without 00:28:59.880 --> 00:29:04.279 looking for them. so it wasn't it was talked 00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:07.220 about but in general sort of sense can you pick 00:29:07.220 --> 00:29:09.440 heavy stuff up and move and can can you run a 00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:11.839 little bit but it was all related to the tests 00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:15.000 themselves um so there wasn't much free support 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.299 there was a lot of dvds to be a like a yellow 00:29:17.299 --> 00:29:19.700 sort of dvd it's famous in the uk but it was 00:29:19.700 --> 00:29:21.920 like the recruitment sort of like test it was 00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:25.519 probably 10 years before that it was made And 00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:27.500 that was the target. So there wasn't anything 00:29:27.500 --> 00:29:30.099 about ongoing and longevity and remaining injury 00:29:30.099 --> 00:29:32.039 -free and things like that, which I'm sort of 00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:34.480 super passionate about now. It was more about 00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:36.160 sort of passing the test and getting, and then 00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:38.819 you sort of, the job makes you fit. It was kind 00:29:38.819 --> 00:29:41.380 of assumed. It was like an old -fashioned sort 00:29:41.380 --> 00:29:43.259 of type of fitness. It wasn't very sort of technical 00:29:43.259 --> 00:29:47.079 or sports science -y. But it's something, although, 00:29:47.140 --> 00:29:49.640 as I was saying earlier about being overweight, 00:29:49.880 --> 00:29:53.579 I was reasonably fit. So a picture of me, you'd 00:29:53.579 --> 00:29:56.940 think. how does he run how does he sort of run 00:29:56.940 --> 00:29:59.680 at all but I've been sort of always been sort 00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:01.339 of fitter than I look so I never really sort 00:30:01.339 --> 00:30:04.220 of struggled with that once I got in the job 00:30:04.220 --> 00:30:07.119 I was like because you start with these like 00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:09.779 big hairy ass sort of like sort of firemen excuse 00:30:09.779 --> 00:30:14.079 me sorry um that were kind of sorry um that were 00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:16.549 kind of again they weren't sort of ripped but 00:30:16.549 --> 00:30:18.549 they were like i'd add sort of farmer strength 00:30:18.549 --> 00:30:20.450 sort of daddy strength i called it you know what 00:30:20.450 --> 00:30:23.750 i mean sort of and they and i was 23 when i joined 00:30:23.750 --> 00:30:27.769 24 so i hadn't really had much sort of life experience 00:30:27.769 --> 00:30:30.549 and things like that so i was then i really sort 00:30:30.549 --> 00:30:31.849 of worked hard because i thought i just don't 00:30:31.849 --> 00:30:33.250 want to embarrass them i don't want to look an 00:30:33.250 --> 00:30:34.990 idiot in front of them so although i had good 00:30:34.990 --> 00:30:37.710 sort of well say good average sort of like sort 00:30:37.710 --> 00:30:39.549 of cv fitness i could do the job without any 00:30:39.549 --> 00:30:41.950 issues that was when i started to kick because 00:30:41.950 --> 00:30:43.769 it being part of that team and not wanting to 00:30:43.769 --> 00:30:46.029 let anyone down And thinking of the worst case 00:30:46.029 --> 00:30:47.990 scenarios in a job, I thought there's no way 00:30:47.990 --> 00:30:50.549 I'm going to sort of look an idiot like in front 00:30:50.549 --> 00:30:52.329 of them. So that's when I kicked on. But that 00:30:52.329 --> 00:30:55.390 came from within. And so whether it would have 00:30:55.390 --> 00:30:57.450 been more of an issue if you come in with a bit 00:30:57.450 --> 00:30:59.289 of a lazy attitude, then you get more of a kick 00:30:59.289 --> 00:31:01.230 up the ass and you get kind of shoved. Well, 00:31:01.289 --> 00:31:02.990 I didn't really kind of need that because I was 00:31:02.990 --> 00:31:07.259 just so quite nervous. a younger bloke so i was 00:31:07.259 --> 00:31:09.960 really keen to not ever be told you're not working 00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:11.880 hard enough or you're not doing enough so i'd 00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:13.339 go the other extreme and i'd sort of work my 00:31:13.339 --> 00:31:15.259 ass off wasn't perfect by any means obviously 00:31:15.259 --> 00:31:17.619 made sort of a load of mistakes and things but 00:31:17.619 --> 00:31:21.480 i did try what did the fitness test look like 00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:23.279 the uh the one that get hired in the first place 00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:27.460 well this is interesting so considering my job 00:31:27.460 --> 00:31:30.299 now and what i preach now we fell in a bit of 00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:33.990 an anonymity that's a word so that i started 00:31:33.990 --> 00:31:37.349 in the september i think and there was a course 00:31:37.349 --> 00:31:40.049 in the july but but before that there wasn't 00:31:40.049 --> 00:31:42.549 any recruitment for a few years so there was 00:31:42.549 --> 00:31:43.990 a bit of a gap and i don't know if this is the 00:31:43.990 --> 00:31:45.829 reason why but there wasn't actually a fitness 00:31:45.829 --> 00:31:49.049 test believe it or not so we had the jrts the 00:31:49.049 --> 00:31:52.549 job related tests um and obviously you had the 00:31:52.549 --> 00:31:54.710 like the fire ground test when you when you when 00:31:54.710 --> 00:31:57.029 you do a timed little circuit with the fire ground 00:31:57.029 --> 00:31:58.869 equipment but there was no bleep test there was 00:31:58.869 --> 00:32:00.289 no sort of chest achievement test or anything 00:32:00.289 --> 00:32:05.519 like that then But then about a year or so after 00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:07.440 that, then they brought in the bleep test. So 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:10.319 we fell right in the middle. So whether that 00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:12.460 worked out perfectly for me, because I've never 00:32:12.460 --> 00:32:15.700 been a fan of the bleep test. But yeah, so which 00:32:15.700 --> 00:32:18.140 is quite sort of scary to kind of look at it. 00:32:18.220 --> 00:32:21.000 But there was no one who wouldn't have passed 00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:22.720 a fitness test, if that makes sense. It didn't 00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:26.809 mean the standards kind of dropped. But it's 00:32:26.809 --> 00:32:29.089 kind of crazy when I speak to a lot of people 00:32:29.089 --> 00:32:30.369 and they say, oh, yeah, the standards have dropped 00:32:30.369 --> 00:32:31.549 now. And in the back of my head, I'm thinking, 00:32:31.549 --> 00:32:33.470 I didn't even do a fitness test 20 years ago. 00:32:33.509 --> 00:32:37.349 So at least there's a standard now. So what are 00:32:37.349 --> 00:32:39.589 you hearing, though, about that? I mean, obviously, 00:32:39.710 --> 00:32:41.950 the British Fire Service is a national service. 00:32:42.009 --> 00:32:44.230 Unlike here, where you could have one town that 00:32:44.230 --> 00:32:46.329 holds their people to a super high level and 00:32:46.329 --> 00:32:48.829 then the neighboring town has no standard whatsoever. 00:32:50.029 --> 00:32:52.309 Over the last 20 years, when there is a fitness 00:32:52.309 --> 00:32:55.150 test in place, what has been the conversation 00:32:55.150 --> 00:32:57.910 of that being lowered? And if that's the case, 00:32:57.950 --> 00:33:02.230 why? Well, it's a massive conversation. So the 00:33:02.230 --> 00:33:04.750 last sort of three or four years, I've spoke 00:33:04.750 --> 00:33:06.690 to loads of academics and people in and out of 00:33:06.690 --> 00:33:09.309 the job and all that. So the technical answer, 00:33:09.329 --> 00:33:12.769 the standards haven't been dropped. It's a myth. 00:33:12.950 --> 00:33:15.319 What's happened is... So back in the day, 30, 00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:17.339 40, 50 years ago, again, there was no sort of 00:33:17.339 --> 00:33:19.640 fitness test other than unofficial sort of log 00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:21.460 runs and things like that. But it was based on 00:33:21.460 --> 00:33:25.740 no, there was no sort of science behind it. I'm 00:33:25.740 --> 00:33:27.140 not saying that they weren't sort of fitter. 00:33:27.140 --> 00:33:28.660 So I don't want to get down that argument is, 00:33:28.700 --> 00:33:31.500 you know, whether they were or whether they weren't, 00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:34.000 but there was no sort of science behind it. The 00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:36.880 first fitness test, the paper was, I think, 2017 00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:42.309 -ish, no, 2014, 2015. I should have got the exact 00:33:42.309 --> 00:33:44.390 date. Apologies if anyone is listening and they're 00:33:44.390 --> 00:33:46.269 sort of screaming down. But the point is it was 00:33:46.269 --> 00:33:50.730 only in the 2010s anyway. And that standard is 00:33:50.730 --> 00:33:52.630 a national standard and it's worked out in your 00:33:52.630 --> 00:33:56.849 VAT max, which is 42 .3. So although you say 00:33:56.849 --> 00:33:59.069 like we're a national service, we are. However, 00:33:59.210 --> 00:34:00.650 it's exactly the same as what you described. 00:34:00.769 --> 00:34:02.670 So although you've got to reach that target, 00:34:02.710 --> 00:34:05.150 how you reach that target or how you assess that 00:34:05.150 --> 00:34:07.650 you're reaching that target can vary from county 00:34:07.650 --> 00:34:11.099 to county. which is absolutely crazy. So we're 00:34:11.099 --> 00:34:15.380 Staffordshire and we're on neighbouring services, 00:34:15.619 --> 00:34:19.199 West Midlands, for example, and you can get into 00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:20.840 the services in completely different ways, even 00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:22.380 though you could sort of cross a road and be 00:34:22.380 --> 00:34:26.099 in the opposite county. So there's a handful 00:34:26.099 --> 00:34:29.119 of tests that mean that you can meet that, ranging 00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:31.639 from like a breath -by -breath, sort of like 00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:34.780 the gas analysis kind of test on a treadmill. 00:34:35.699 --> 00:34:38.000 We don't have that in our services and not many... 00:34:38.329 --> 00:34:40.030 services do but that's going to be sort of true 00:34:40.030 --> 00:34:43.050 way to get it ranging up to sort of a treadmill 00:34:43.050 --> 00:34:44.969 sort of walk -in tests and bleep tests and things 00:34:44.969 --> 00:34:47.010 like that and it's all sort of worked out what 00:34:47.010 --> 00:34:51.130 the what the equivalent is so but everyone male 00:34:51.130 --> 00:34:54.150 female whether you're 18 or 64 or whatever you 00:34:54.150 --> 00:34:56.690 have you have to reach that standard to get into 00:34:56.690 --> 00:34:59.090 the job in the fire service so there's no firefighter 00:34:59.090 --> 00:35:02.769 unless they started pre -tests i'll put that 00:35:02.769 --> 00:35:05.309 but even then even if they started pre -test 00:35:05.309 --> 00:35:08.329 the annual test which every service does in some 00:35:08.329 --> 00:35:10.369 form or another you again you have to reach that 00:35:10.369 --> 00:35:12.789 standard so there shouldn't be any firefighter 00:35:12.789 --> 00:35:15.070 in the country who's not at that minimum standard 00:35:15.070 --> 00:35:17.869 this is when it gets a bit sort of nerdy so apologies 00:35:17.869 --> 00:35:21.070 if i'm boring you but no no jump in but that 00:35:21.070 --> 00:35:24.250 minimum standard has been worked out by academics 00:35:24.250 --> 00:35:27.469 and people in the service as well for fitness 00:35:27.469 --> 00:35:29.429 advisors to watch managers station managers it 00:35:29.429 --> 00:35:31.840 was a big sort of paper that that was made to 00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:36.320 where this 42 .3 came from. And it was worked 00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:42.320 out, whatever the phrase is, that the physiological 00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:46.500 effect on a human, so again, male, female, age 00:35:46.500 --> 00:35:50.420 irrelevant, you need a VO2 max to be safe on 00:35:50.420 --> 00:35:52.480 the fire ground and reduce the chance of cardiac 00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:55.500 arrest. So that's the minimum standard that you 00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:57.119 need. It doesn't obviously sort of guarantee 00:35:57.119 --> 00:35:58.559 your safety because if you're smoking, you're 00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:01.099 drinking, you're overweight, et cetera. But if 00:36:01.099 --> 00:36:05.019 you can hit that, that means you're at the minimum 00:36:05.019 --> 00:36:08.000 that it reduces your standard, basically to kind 00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:09.940 of not have a heart attack on the fire ground. 00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:13.480 So that's the standard that everyone's at. So 00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:16.599 when people say it's been sort of lowered for 00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:18.960 females and things like that, it's not true at 00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:21.059 all. All that's happened is it's been standardized, 00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:23.940 yes, but that minimum standard is for everyone 00:36:23.940 --> 00:36:26.619 and everyone has to hit that. If somebody knows 00:36:26.619 --> 00:36:29.329 of an individual in a service who's... skip to 00:36:29.329 --> 00:36:31.070 test or out of date or anything like that then 00:36:31.070 --> 00:36:33.230 that's that's that's like a local issue but that 00:36:33.230 --> 00:36:36.070 isn't a service decision to let more sort of 00:36:36.070 --> 00:36:39.090 females in for example that's just an error in 00:36:39.090 --> 00:36:41.170 in the working out and there are a lot of brigades 00:36:41.170 --> 00:36:46.010 um i say a lot there's a few brigades i don't 00:36:46.010 --> 00:36:48.070 think it's for under bus but sort of london for 00:36:48.070 --> 00:36:50.869 fire brigade because they're so huge they're 00:36:50.869 --> 00:36:52.869 playing a bit of catch -up so because they've 00:36:52.869 --> 00:36:56.179 got thousands of thousands we've got 850 No, 00:36:56.260 --> 00:36:59.920 sorry, about 550 operational firefighters in 00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:02.539 our county, so we're quite small. And they've 00:37:02.539 --> 00:37:07.219 got thousands and thousands. So the logistics 00:37:07.219 --> 00:37:09.599 can sometimes cause an issue to make sure everyone's 00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:12.380 in date, but they still have to get in at that 00:37:12.380 --> 00:37:14.559 standard, if all that waffle makes sense. No, 00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:16.480 it does. It does completely. So firstly, you 00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:18.559 guys are held to an annual standard. That's something 00:37:18.559 --> 00:37:21.500 that is, you use the word anomaly. Someone who 00:37:21.500 --> 00:37:24.500 has a punitive fitness test in America would 00:37:24.500 --> 00:37:26.860 be an anomaly. And you used the word minimum 00:37:26.860 --> 00:37:29.880 standards. When we go to fire Academy in Florida, 00:37:30.019 --> 00:37:32.739 as here, you usually put yourself through school. 00:37:32.739 --> 00:37:34.719 Yeah. It's only up North of where they'll actually 00:37:34.719 --> 00:37:36.820 take people really, you know, as civilians, a 00:37:36.820 --> 00:37:38.340 lot of us, we have to go to school first and 00:37:38.340 --> 00:37:40.980 then, and then try and get hired. But our certification 00:37:40.980 --> 00:37:44.320 is called minimum standards. So it's so ironic 00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:47.280 because we label, this is the shittest you should 00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:50.639 ever be your entire life coming out of the account. 00:37:50.699 --> 00:37:52.699 That's the worst. You should be minimum standards. 00:37:53.469 --> 00:37:56.329 And yet there's no annual fitness test. So what 00:37:56.329 --> 00:37:58.429 happens is you get these people kind of like, 00:37:58.469 --> 00:38:00.869 you know, some of the blokes at the pub with 00:38:00.869 --> 00:38:02.369 the beer bellies talking about how they used 00:38:02.369 --> 00:38:04.050 to be so good at football when they were in school. 00:38:04.429 --> 00:38:06.929 It's the same thing. You've got a 15 -year firefighter 00:38:06.929 --> 00:38:10.309 who's now obese talking about how they were their 00:38:10.309 --> 00:38:12.269 fittest in the fire academy because they weren't 00:38:12.269 --> 00:38:14.550 held to a standard. Now, of course, there are 00:38:14.550 --> 00:38:16.349 some contributing factors from mental health 00:38:16.349 --> 00:38:18.750 to, you know, the impact of sleep deprivation 00:38:18.750 --> 00:38:21.949 on our hormones and our ability to keep the weight 00:38:21.949 --> 00:38:25.190 off. But ultimately, if you're held at a standard 00:38:25.190 --> 00:38:28.530 from the front door from the beginning, you would 00:38:28.530 --> 00:38:30.769 catch that slide. You'd nip it in the bud. Even 00:38:30.769 --> 00:38:32.389 if someone was sliding a bit, you'd be able to 00:38:32.389 --> 00:38:33.949 help them, get them back on their feet. And now 00:38:33.949 --> 00:38:36.889 they're only one year behind, not 15, 20 years 00:38:36.889 --> 00:38:41.230 behind. So the fact that you even have that test 00:38:41.230 --> 00:38:44.510 is phenomenal. Is it punitive? If you don't meet 00:38:44.510 --> 00:38:46.829 the VO2 max, what are the actions that are taken? 00:38:47.779 --> 00:38:50.880 Yeah, so obviously at the beginning, if you don't 00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:52.500 meet that standard, then you don't get in basically. 00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:55.139 And most sort of services only recruit sort of 00:38:55.139 --> 00:38:56.820 once a year. So it does mean that you're sort 00:38:56.820 --> 00:38:58.300 of put back in a year and you've got to wait 00:38:58.300 --> 00:38:59.760 until sort of next year. There's not many sort 00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:02.360 of second chances. Some brigades do a follow 00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:05.280 -up kind of test and things like that. But sort 00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:07.300 of generally, if you don't meet the recruitment 00:39:07.300 --> 00:39:09.800 standard, then you can't get in. In terms of 00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:12.360 the annual test, again, it varies a little bit 00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:16.539 service to service. official line is that if 00:39:16.539 --> 00:39:18.480 you don't hit that standard then you're off the 00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:21.119 run then some follow -up sort of actions can 00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:23.639 take place but while while you're investigating 00:39:23.639 --> 00:39:25.280 it and while you're supporting them back and 00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:27.619 doing a follow -up test like you're off the run 00:39:27.619 --> 00:39:30.699 there are the odd sort of services who have misread 00:39:30.699 --> 00:39:34.059 the the advice and guidance and they have what 00:39:34.059 --> 00:39:36.400 they i think it's because they called it a green 00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:40.179 amber and gold green amber and red sort of standard 00:39:40.179 --> 00:39:42.400 so if you're in the green then obviously you're 00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:44.800 great then you just put back in the pot and you're 00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:48.059 tested a year later. If you're below a certain 00:39:48.059 --> 00:39:50.739 standard of the test in the red, then you're 00:39:50.739 --> 00:39:52.960 off the run. You might go to occupational health 00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:54.780 to make sure there's no underlying issues and 00:39:54.780 --> 00:39:57.860 then you have a support plan. What's confusing 00:39:57.860 --> 00:40:01.179 is this amber area. So some brigades, if someone 00:40:01.179 --> 00:40:05.360 falls in this amber area, which I'd say, then 00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:08.679 they remain on the run while they do like a secondary 00:40:08.679 --> 00:40:11.519 test or while they do a bit of sort of like a 00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:14.920 follow -up. That's kind of incorrect. If you're 00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:17.099 not at the minimum standard, you're putting yourself 00:40:17.099 --> 00:40:19.019 at risk. The service is putting that individual 00:40:19.019 --> 00:40:21.260 at risk and the service is at risk because obviously 00:40:21.260 --> 00:40:25.360 they've got a responsibility on the legal side. 00:40:25.780 --> 00:40:29.199 So there is a bit of a grey area where some people 00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:30.860 are being on the run when it's proven that they're 00:40:30.860 --> 00:40:32.400 not at that standard while they investigate. 00:40:32.619 --> 00:40:34.199 Now, the fear is obviously if they have a heart 00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:37.269 attack the next day. a good lawyer would go, 00:40:37.329 --> 00:40:39.070 well, why did you keep him on the run when you 00:40:39.070 --> 00:40:40.730 sort of knew he didn't hit the standard just 00:40:40.730 --> 00:40:42.250 because he's in this Amazon and the minimum standard 00:40:42.250 --> 00:40:47.670 is 42 .3. So yes, you are essentially taken off 00:40:47.670 --> 00:40:50.349 the run or you should be sort of taken off the 00:40:50.349 --> 00:40:52.030 run and then the support plan or whatever it 00:40:52.030 --> 00:40:56.869 is sort of follows up. What really angers me 00:40:56.869 --> 00:40:59.989 is there is no downside to fitness standards. 00:41:00.429 --> 00:41:02.929 Now, bearing in mind, let's say. they're in at 00:41:02.929 --> 00:41:05.210 the front door you're expecting them so there's 00:41:05.210 --> 00:41:07.090 no one even saying it's unfair the people that 00:41:07.090 --> 00:41:09.610 have been on for x amount of time and then you 00:41:09.610 --> 00:41:11.530 put this in of course there needs to be an on 00:41:11.530 --> 00:41:14.090 -ramp of you know a year two years to allow people 00:41:14.090 --> 00:41:15.570 to get back to where they need to be because 00:41:15.570 --> 00:41:17.989 you just put that standard in but that aside 00:41:17.989 --> 00:41:20.829 from a performance point of view if we're talking 00:41:20.829 --> 00:41:23.269 about you know extreme events in the uk fire 00:41:23.269 --> 00:41:26.789 service to say oh it's okay we don't need to 00:41:26.789 --> 00:41:29.329 hold you a standard now you're asked to go up 00:41:29.329 --> 00:41:32.050 to the 24th floor of the Grenfell Tower to get 00:41:32.050 --> 00:41:34.050 a family out of an apartment building after you 00:41:34.050 --> 00:41:37.710 force the door, that requires a high level of 00:41:37.710 --> 00:41:39.789 athleticism. If you're asked to go down into 00:41:39.789 --> 00:41:41.889 the tunnels after the 7 -7 bombing and start 00:41:41.889 --> 00:41:44.469 pulling people out, that requires a high level 00:41:44.469 --> 00:41:48.570 of athleticism. So this job isn't for everyone. 00:41:48.710 --> 00:41:50.449 Full stop. Let's just make that clear. I've always 00:41:50.449 --> 00:41:52.269 said I would be a horrible accountant. I'm terrible 00:41:52.269 --> 00:41:55.840 with numbers. Everyone has their place. But on 00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:57.900 the flip side, as you said, with cardiac arrest, 00:41:58.260 --> 00:42:01.599 it's also about longevity and wellness and make 00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:03.699 sure our people go home and not just go home, 00:42:03.739 --> 00:42:05.480 but when they retire, have a long and healthy 00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:08.500 retirement. So the opposition to fitness standards 00:42:08.500 --> 00:42:12.400 really just turns my stomach because you can't 00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:14.579 point to any element of a fitness standard and 00:42:14.579 --> 00:42:16.960 say, oh, yeah, but that's not fair. It's fair 00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:18.900 from a performance point of view, and it's fair 00:42:18.900 --> 00:42:20.940 for taking care of your people in their longevity 00:42:20.940 --> 00:42:24.929 point of view. Yeah, 100%. And that's just something 00:42:24.929 --> 00:42:28.650 that the longer I've been in this role for just 00:42:28.650 --> 00:42:32.230 under four years, I've got more confident in 00:42:32.230 --> 00:42:34.190 being a bit sort of blunter and saying that kind 00:42:34.190 --> 00:42:37.389 of thing to people. Like when people fail, which 00:42:37.389 --> 00:42:40.989 in our brigade is a tiny amount, I've got to 00:42:40.989 --> 00:42:45.030 say. But it's kind of what did you expect? Surely 00:42:45.030 --> 00:42:48.570 there's a sense of responsibility that you need 00:42:48.570 --> 00:42:50.679 to be sort of fitter than the average. person 00:42:50.679 --> 00:42:52.059 across the road you don't have to be an athlete 00:42:52.059 --> 00:42:55.159 by any means but you have to be sort of fitter 00:42:55.159 --> 00:42:57.559 than the average bloke and the answer is always 00:42:57.559 --> 00:42:59.380 yeah i know but then you think well how do you 00:42:59.380 --> 00:43:00.920 get for fitter do you think you're going to wake 00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:02.440 up one day or take a pill and it's just going 00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:04.119 to happen sort of naturally or you're just sort 00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:07.500 of grunt for through it you have to work at being 00:43:07.500 --> 00:43:10.559 fit and and there isn't there isn't a way around 00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:13.239 that there isn't a cheat a cheat code for for 00:43:13.239 --> 00:43:16.760 that so the self the self -worth having the responsibility 00:43:16.760 --> 00:43:18.940 and it sounds sort of cheesy of the badge and 00:43:18.940 --> 00:43:20.539 things like that i don't mean for the love of 00:43:20.539 --> 00:43:23.739 your county but it we should be proud to be sort 00:43:23.739 --> 00:43:25.760 of for firefighters there's hundreds and thousands 00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:28.860 of people who would die to be a firefighter and 00:43:28.860 --> 00:43:31.320 and that's why we get so we had like 1800 people 00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:34.900 apply for for for 15 jobs and things like that 00:43:34.900 --> 00:43:37.840 so you've got to take responsibility and don't 00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:39.860 think the job is done as soon as you get in exactly 00:43:39.860 --> 00:43:44.550 as you said are the the standard that we're tested 00:43:44.550 --> 00:43:46.550 to although it's greatest and like we're tested 00:43:46.550 --> 00:43:49.230 annually i'm constantly saying that's the minimum 00:43:49.230 --> 00:43:51.349 that means you literally don't have a heart attack 00:43:51.349 --> 00:43:53.309 when you get off the truck that's all that all 00:43:53.309 --> 00:43:55.369 that is doing that's not saying because even 00:43:55.369 --> 00:43:57.150 like the run out the flight of the stairs and 00:43:57.150 --> 00:43:59.179 i say to people There are a lot of people who 00:43:59.179 --> 00:44:00.219 could run up the flight of stairs absolutely 00:44:00.219 --> 00:44:01.659 fine, but you've got to forget, you might have 00:44:01.659 --> 00:44:04.380 to perform a technical task while you're up there. 00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:06.579 So if you're not, you might be blowing out your 00:44:06.579 --> 00:44:07.679 arse saying, right, I've done it, I've climbed 00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:10.500 the 10 flight of stairs. If you're, it's going 00:44:10.500 --> 00:44:12.619 to, or the performance sort of level and your 00:44:12.619 --> 00:44:15.880 cognitive behaviour when you're fatigued is so 00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:17.539 important. We're going to have to save lives. 00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:20.159 when you get to that point as well so it's not 00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:22.500 about sort of just getting to the job it's about 00:44:22.500 --> 00:44:24.559 sort of performing when you're at the job which 00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:26.400 i think a lot of people forget all they think 00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:29.199 is is like the distance or i'm strong enough 00:44:29.199 --> 00:44:31.079 to pick up sort of that bit of kit yeah that's 00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:33.019 great but can you pick up that bit of kit at 00:44:33.019 --> 00:44:35.019 a funny angle when you're bent over a car and 00:44:35.019 --> 00:44:37.719 you know obviously sort of manual handling sort 00:44:37.719 --> 00:44:39.920 of goes out the window and things like that so 00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:43.340 it's thinking about the job rather than just 00:44:43.340 --> 00:44:46.130 thinking i've got to do the bare minimum Yeah, 00:44:46.130 --> 00:44:48.070 absolutely. And you've got to train for the worst 00:44:48.070 --> 00:44:50.869 case scenario. Where I worked, this last one, 00:44:50.949 --> 00:44:53.610 protected theme parks. But my station, there 00:44:53.610 --> 00:44:57.570 was a 30 -story hotel next to us. And to do what 00:44:57.570 --> 00:44:59.889 we call a high -rise strip here, so take everything 00:44:59.889 --> 00:45:02.190 that you'd need to ascend to get to the standpipe, 00:45:02.289 --> 00:45:03.789 you've got a hose on your back, you've got two 00:45:03.789 --> 00:45:07.469 spare cylinders, and you've got a tool, that's 00:45:07.469 --> 00:45:12.599 100 pounds of gear. And I was 168 pounds. almost 00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:15.179 you know double my body weight sorry excuse me 00:45:15.179 --> 00:45:16.960 almost i thought it was terrible numbers almost 00:45:16.960 --> 00:45:19.619 half my body weight more than half my body weight 00:45:19.619 --> 00:45:23.940 there we go um jesus i am terrible um so now 00:45:23.940 --> 00:45:26.340 you're climbing 30 stories and then like you 00:45:26.340 --> 00:45:28.980 said then you get to the fire floor now it's 00:45:28.980 --> 00:45:31.739 time to actually go to work so you know i'm a 00:45:31.739 --> 00:45:33.860 huge believer in the the word tactical athlete 00:45:34.360 --> 00:45:37.320 Do we do athletic stuff on a daily basis? Maybe 00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:39.420 not. Many of us are pumping blood pressure cuffs 00:45:39.420 --> 00:45:42.420 and doing very non -heroic shit on some of these 00:45:42.420 --> 00:45:45.900 shifts. But when you get those calls, whether 00:45:45.900 --> 00:45:48.199 it's zero to 100 and you're just fighting a single 00:45:48.199 --> 00:45:50.920 story fire, whether you're ascending 30 floors 00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:53.440 with 100 pounds of gear, yeah, that zero to 100, 00:45:53.579 --> 00:45:56.840 you're asked to do something that arguably very, 00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:59.380 very few people in the entire nation would be 00:45:59.380 --> 00:46:01.780 capable of doing. So you do need to be held at 00:46:01.780 --> 00:46:06.230 a high standard. yeah 100 % and and like on top 00:46:06.230 --> 00:46:08.750 of that I always think of thinking of your oppo 00:46:08.750 --> 00:46:11.130 as well because it's not always about can can 00:46:11.130 --> 00:46:13.769 I sort of drag my mate out can I pick up this 00:46:13.769 --> 00:46:17.469 bit of kit it's if I if I collapse am I in a 00:46:17.469 --> 00:46:19.769 reasonable sort of body composition state that 00:46:19.769 --> 00:46:21.929 my mate can pull me out so there's a bit of responsibility 00:46:21.929 --> 00:46:24.110 for him because he can end up if you're really 00:46:24.110 --> 00:46:27.969 overweight and you and you have a collapse you're 00:46:27.969 --> 00:46:29.630 going to give him a heart attack or he's going 00:46:29.630 --> 00:46:31.530 to get sort of trapped or run out of air because 00:46:31.530 --> 00:46:33.289 he's going to, you know, sort of half sort of 00:46:33.289 --> 00:46:34.670 kill himself trying to drag you out. And you 00:46:34.670 --> 00:46:36.889 know that because that's part of the bond. No 00:46:36.889 --> 00:46:38.449 matter what the books say and do this and do 00:46:38.449 --> 00:46:40.190 that, you're going to sort of try your best. 00:46:40.250 --> 00:46:42.369 So there's a responsibility for your team as 00:46:42.369 --> 00:46:45.530 well and making sure that you're in a good enough 00:46:45.530 --> 00:46:47.329 sort of shape that you could be sort of rescued, 00:46:47.409 --> 00:46:49.070 which I know sounds a crazy way of looking at 00:46:49.070 --> 00:46:51.550 it, but sometimes it's kind of changing the way 00:46:51.550 --> 00:46:54.730 that people... view things it's not all about 00:46:54.730 --> 00:46:56.829 just sort of running for the sake of it and even 00:46:56.829 --> 00:46:59.210 you know it's going off off tangent a little 00:46:59.210 --> 00:47:02.110 bit but a lot of people say that being sort of 00:47:02.110 --> 00:47:04.690 tested to a vo2 max standard isn't relevant to 00:47:04.690 --> 00:47:07.929 turn the job and you it's really hard to put 00:47:07.929 --> 00:47:09.969 into words when you try and say a hundred percent 00:47:09.969 --> 00:47:12.510 it is because everything every kind of movement 00:47:12.510 --> 00:47:16.650 we do is related to vo2 max i saw a great sort 00:47:16.650 --> 00:47:18.190 of podcast the other day with a bloke called 00:47:18.190 --> 00:47:22.119 peter attia uh he's american yeah yeah and he's 00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:24.360 a amazing bloke because he sort of breaks that 00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:28.099 super super clever a lot clever than a lot of 00:47:28.099 --> 00:47:30.639 people but he kind of breaks it down and he said 00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:32.900 with you like your beauty max us having a conversation 00:47:32.900 --> 00:47:36.079 now we're probably in a vo2 max of about sort 00:47:36.079 --> 00:47:38.599 of six or something and when you when you get 00:47:38.599 --> 00:47:40.659 up and walk up the stairs it might be 10 to 15. 00:47:40.860 --> 00:47:43.219 so everything that we do is sort of staggered 00:47:43.219 --> 00:47:45.679 up as we get older over the age of confucius 00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:49.519 30 or 40 but it's it's relatively young it's 00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:51.719 kind of drops by a certain percent every single 00:47:51.719 --> 00:47:55.219 year so that means if we're training now to 42 00:47:55.219 --> 00:47:59.820 .3 and i mean i'm 40 how old am i i'm 44 sort 00:47:59.820 --> 00:48:01.960 of this year so i'm in that sort of bracket if 00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:06.480 i don't train i'm at 42 .3 now if i did exactly 00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:08.420 the same as what i'm doing now sort of next year 00:48:08.420 --> 00:48:11.860 my vo2 max is going to drop sort of naturally 00:48:11.860 --> 00:48:14.380 because of age so i need to address that and 00:48:14.380 --> 00:48:17.809 work harder so that's why There is an argument 00:48:17.809 --> 00:48:20.469 to say it is unfair on females and the older 00:48:20.469 --> 00:48:23.489 you get because it's harder for them to maintain 00:48:23.489 --> 00:48:26.730 certain VO2 max, which is correct. However, if 00:48:26.730 --> 00:48:29.110 that's the minimum VO2 max you need to be safe 00:48:29.110 --> 00:48:31.030 on the fire ground, there's no getting around 00:48:31.030 --> 00:48:33.909 that. If you can't reach that, you might have 00:48:33.909 --> 00:48:35.809 to work harder to get there, but that's what 00:48:35.809 --> 00:48:37.670 you need to be safe on the fire ground. So if 00:48:37.670 --> 00:48:40.610 you can't reach that, as blunt as it sounds, 00:48:40.949 --> 00:48:43.730 then maybe you need to be off the run or you 00:48:43.730 --> 00:48:46.030 need to work harder. There's no getting away. 00:48:47.070 --> 00:48:48.690 there's no getting away from that sort of minimum 00:48:48.690 --> 00:48:51.309 standard if that makes sense no it does actually 00:48:51.309 --> 00:48:53.530 it's a really interesting way of looking at it 00:48:53.530 --> 00:48:57.030 when you become a firefighter your lens shouldn't 00:48:57.030 --> 00:48:59.750 be oh i'm a firefighter at 19 it should be i 00:48:59.750 --> 00:49:01.730 need to make sure i'm a firefighter still at 00:49:01.730 --> 00:49:05.119 49 what am i gonna do i mean i i still i'm not 00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:07.599 wearing the uniform anymore but i still train 00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:09.940 as though i am because you never know you know 00:49:09.940 --> 00:49:11.840 you might come across a car crash you might have 00:49:11.840 --> 00:49:14.340 to god forbid protect your family whatever it 00:49:14.340 --> 00:49:16.500 is your physicality is important male female 00:49:16.500 --> 00:49:20.360 whatever you know and to use ages or genders 00:49:20.360 --> 00:49:24.019 as an excuse because you know as you said we're 00:49:24.019 --> 00:49:26.119 we're aging well yeah we're in a we're in a profession 00:49:26.119 --> 00:49:29.699 that ages so either a go sit behind a desk which 00:49:29.699 --> 00:49:31.519 is not what i was dreaming of in the fire academy 00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:33.679 or Yeah, understand that you're going to have 00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:35.400 to put the work in. And realistically, what's 00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:36.800 going to happen is you're going to smash the 00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:40.719 VO2 level when you're 20. And yeah, when you're 00:49:40.719 --> 00:49:43.320 45, it's going to take a little bit more work. 00:49:43.380 --> 00:49:45.739 But if you never stop training back to those 00:49:45.739 --> 00:49:47.679 fitness standards, if you're held to a high standard 00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:49.920 and just every week you just keep doing the thing 00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:52.579 that needs to be done, you won't have this sharp 00:49:52.579 --> 00:49:55.119 drop off. And, you know, even towards the twilight 00:49:55.119 --> 00:49:57.659 of your career, those will still be attainable 00:49:57.659 --> 00:50:00.019 because we all know. Those men and women in the 00:50:00.019 --> 00:50:01.900 fire service who are still smashing it in their 00:50:01.900 --> 00:50:04.739 50s. So, you know, it just takes diligence, just 00:50:04.739 --> 00:50:09.039 takes hard work. Yeah, 100 % right. And that's 00:50:09.039 --> 00:50:10.280 what I'm always sort of saying to people. It's 00:50:10.280 --> 00:50:12.820 not about sort of training like an athlete. It's 00:50:12.820 --> 00:50:15.659 just about sort of keeping sort of ticking over 00:50:15.659 --> 00:50:18.139 and being consistent with it and kind of pushing 00:50:18.139 --> 00:50:20.820 yourself as much as you can. But it's just about 00:50:20.820 --> 00:50:22.760 sort of doing it sort of day in, day out for 00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:25.539 10 to 20, 30 years. I mean, we've got a few firefighters 00:50:25.539 --> 00:50:29.090 in their early 60s. And they're amazing. And 00:50:29.090 --> 00:50:31.130 they pass the fitness test fine. And it's all 00:50:31.130 --> 00:50:33.170 that, you know, I'm not saying it's, you know, 00:50:33.170 --> 00:50:35.230 whether that's sort of right or wrong is, is, 00:50:35.230 --> 00:50:37.630 is, is another issue, but like there isn't any 00:50:37.630 --> 00:50:39.550 issues with them and they're, and they're amazing. 00:50:39.650 --> 00:50:41.269 So when you get to someone in their early 30s, 00:50:41.289 --> 00:50:42.829 he's moaning about the fitness test. I'm like, 00:50:42.849 --> 00:50:45.530 if you cannot moan when there's a 64 year old, 00:50:45.570 --> 00:50:47.889 he's passing the test with flying colors. You 00:50:47.889 --> 00:50:50.010 can't moan at 31. Do you know what I mean? So 00:50:50.010 --> 00:50:52.670 there isn't any excuse. And that's all it is, 00:50:52.690 --> 00:50:56.550 is, is, is sort of consistency. It sounds an 00:50:56.550 --> 00:50:58.369 obvious thing to say, but the only people who 00:50:58.369 --> 00:51:00.289 moan about the test and pretend it's for a moral 00:51:00.289 --> 00:51:02.429 sort of reason about the relevance of the test 00:51:02.429 --> 00:51:04.030 or this and that are the people who struggle 00:51:04.030 --> 00:51:06.889 with it. And you think, well, you don't ever 00:51:06.889 --> 00:51:10.989 get a fit person moaning about the tests. And 00:51:10.989 --> 00:51:13.090 I always think, well, that's as obvious as it 00:51:13.090 --> 00:51:15.550 sounds. Well, what does that mean? You know what 00:51:15.550 --> 00:51:17.530 I mean? You're using it as an excuse because 00:51:17.530 --> 00:51:20.269 you can't be bothered to put in the work. I'm 00:51:20.269 --> 00:51:21.469 not saying for everyone, obviously. There might 00:51:21.469 --> 00:51:23.010 be injuries. There might be underlying issues. 00:51:23.130 --> 00:51:29.030 And age can catch up with people, no matter what 00:51:29.030 --> 00:51:32.530 they do. But the harshness about it. that is 00:51:32.530 --> 00:51:34.449 unlucky and i'll do for sorry for you and you 00:51:34.449 --> 00:51:36.809 and you could work your ass off in a rehab or 00:51:36.809 --> 00:51:38.590 whatever but if you can't reach that standard 00:51:38.590 --> 00:51:40.750 it doesn't mean we should lower the standard 00:51:40.750 --> 00:51:42.710 for you because that's only putting you at risk 00:51:42.710 --> 00:51:46.530 putting you at more risk absolutely something 00:51:46.530 --> 00:51:48.550 popped into my head and it's just it's a recent 00:51:48.550 --> 00:51:51.789 conversation but i'm watching welcome rexum i'm 00:51:51.789 --> 00:51:54.269 watching on hulu which is uh an app here where 00:51:54.269 --> 00:51:56.489 you just get bombarded with adverse and it's 00:51:56.489 --> 00:52:00.869 brutal and ironically you're watching you know 00:52:00.869 --> 00:52:03.210 this show about this community and these fit 00:52:03.210 --> 00:52:05.030 athletes and then you keep going to these drug 00:52:05.030 --> 00:52:06.909 commercials because over here that's what you 00:52:06.909 --> 00:52:10.289 get bombarded with right and so many of them 00:52:10.289 --> 00:52:12.789 are those glp ones you know the the weight loss 00:52:12.789 --> 00:52:16.670 pills and i've just kind of hit me that you have 00:52:16.670 --> 00:52:19.070 people that are deconditioned that also are carrying 00:52:19.070 --> 00:52:22.650 more body weight and now these pills work so 00:52:22.650 --> 00:52:26.309 now they're slim And I think, you know, in the 00:52:26.309 --> 00:52:29.110 examples, especially where gastric bypass was 00:52:29.110 --> 00:52:31.170 used, like extreme obesity, I think these pills 00:52:31.170 --> 00:52:34.610 have a place. I really do. But the problem is 00:52:34.610 --> 00:52:36.389 if you've got your average person who's a little 00:52:36.389 --> 00:52:38.349 heavy, they start taking these and now they want 00:52:38.349 --> 00:52:40.789 to be a cop or a firefighter. They haven't put 00:52:40.789 --> 00:52:43.429 any of the work in. You know, I mean, again, 00:52:43.570 --> 00:52:45.230 assuming that they haven't put any of the work 00:52:45.230 --> 00:52:47.769 in, you can lose a lot of weight just from the 00:52:47.769 --> 00:52:50.380 medication itself. So now they go into these 00:52:50.380 --> 00:52:52.280 tests, they don't have the physical resilience 00:52:52.280 --> 00:52:54.059 and they don't have the mental resilience of 00:52:54.059 --> 00:52:56.059 the suffering that is, you know, working out 00:52:56.059 --> 00:52:57.659 is hard, you know, and some of these workouts 00:52:57.659 --> 00:53:00.019 you're throwing up or, you know, whatever, whatever, 00:53:00.179 --> 00:53:02.780 you know, pain cave you put yourself in periodically. 00:53:03.300 --> 00:53:05.199 That's the whole point. It's supposed to be hard 00:53:05.199 --> 00:53:07.800 to prepare yourself for the crucible of a fire 00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:11.280 academy, a police academy, et cetera. So it'll 00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:15.099 be interesting to see as this whole GLP -1 revolution 00:53:15.099 --> 00:53:19.599 happens. how many seemingly fit looking people 00:53:19.599 --> 00:53:23.019 show up that maybe then can't actually do the 00:53:23.019 --> 00:53:24.980 physical test because they haven't put the actual 00:53:24.980 --> 00:53:28.820 work in. Yeah, 100%. And I think that that's 00:53:28.820 --> 00:53:30.579 in every sort of walk of life as well. Because 00:53:30.579 --> 00:53:34.139 I think it's super scary that... I think it's 00:53:34.139 --> 00:53:35.920 the education behind it because, as you say, 00:53:36.019 --> 00:53:37.500 they've definitely got a place because they were 00:53:37.500 --> 00:53:40.300 invented for a reason. We're people with diabetes, 00:53:40.659 --> 00:53:43.840 morbidly obese sort of people, and it's going 00:53:43.840 --> 00:53:46.639 to save the NHS over here obviously more money 00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:48.820 if we sort that out sooner rather than later 00:53:48.820 --> 00:53:52.539 in life. However, when you get sort of 20 -year 00:53:52.539 --> 00:53:55.099 -olds taking it, when you think all they have 00:53:55.099 --> 00:53:57.719 to do is do a bit of exercise or eat better, 00:53:58.019 --> 00:54:02.300 because when I do the annual test, for example, 00:54:03.630 --> 00:54:06.750 i don't like people being too too kind of lean 00:54:06.750 --> 00:54:09.530 and skinny either so i say to people when i give 00:54:09.530 --> 00:54:12.010 advice on not that i'm a fan of bmi it's a load 00:54:12.010 --> 00:54:13.489 of rubbish but in terms of sort of body fat percentage 00:54:15.480 --> 00:54:18.139 I'd prefer someone who's a little bit higher, 00:54:18.239 --> 00:54:21.320 not sort of dangerously high, but with something 00:54:21.320 --> 00:54:23.320 a bit about them that they can carry their sort 00:54:23.320 --> 00:54:25.679 of body weight around and they're half sort of 00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:27.960 decent in the gym or in whatever sort of fitness 00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:29.760 they like. But working on the worst case scenario 00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:31.280 again, if they're on their hands and knees and 00:54:31.280 --> 00:54:34.639 like a building is collapsing on them, I'd want 00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:36.599 somebody with a bit of something about them rather 00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:39.739 than someone who's like a 2 % sort of body. a 00:54:39.739 --> 00:54:42.699 body fat percentage who you know any sort of 00:54:42.699 --> 00:54:44.800 strong a breeze and they're going to snap but 00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:46.019 they might be able to sort of run a marathon 00:54:46.019 --> 00:54:47.579 which is great but that's not going to help you 00:54:47.579 --> 00:54:50.340 in the job so there's a prep not only the fitness 00:54:50.340 --> 00:54:53.500 side that they won't have but it's the it's the 00:54:53.500 --> 00:54:55.579 i don't know even what the word is but the durability 00:54:55.579 --> 00:54:58.519 of someone because it's not a pretty job there 00:54:58.519 --> 00:55:00.719 is a lot of mauling and when you're sort of ridden 00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:02.699 out after a fire and you're pulling bits down 00:55:02.699 --> 00:55:04.360 and you're crawling in these like sort of weird 00:55:04.360 --> 00:55:06.260 places and covered in muck and things like that 00:55:07.230 --> 00:55:09.210 being sort of mega skinny is not going to help 00:55:09.210 --> 00:55:11.730 you um so yeah i do think there's going to be 00:55:11.730 --> 00:55:12.949 a knock -on i think there's going to be a knock 00:55:12.949 --> 00:55:15.449 -on in society i hate it when you see sort of 00:55:15.449 --> 00:55:17.750 teenagers and that ironic because i think what 00:55:17.750 --> 00:55:19.889 a lot of people forget as well all it does is 00:55:19.889 --> 00:55:21.489 make you not hungry so all it's doing is not 00:55:21.489 --> 00:55:23.869 making you eat it doesn't so as soon as you come 00:55:23.869 --> 00:55:25.989 off it it doesn't mean as soon as you come off 00:55:25.989 --> 00:55:27.769 it that i'm going to eat sort of five sort of 00:55:27.769 --> 00:55:29.929 fruit and veg a day and i'm going to i'm going 00:55:29.929 --> 00:55:31.730 to be really healthy and i know about sort of 00:55:31.730 --> 00:55:33.210 healthy fats and all that it doesn't give you 00:55:33.769 --> 00:55:35.809 it doesn't implant a chip in your brain. So all 00:55:35.809 --> 00:55:37.329 you're going to do is go back to kind of what 00:55:37.329 --> 00:55:38.989 you were, or you're going to stay on for longer, 00:55:39.050 --> 00:55:41.510 which is exactly as you say, it's not a long 00:55:41.510 --> 00:55:44.030 -term solution. So I think it's super, super 00:55:44.030 --> 00:55:47.329 dangerous. And we'll see what happens. I hope 00:55:47.329 --> 00:55:49.829 it gets sort of picked up though, because we 00:55:49.829 --> 00:55:52.389 do in our service like a health check. So it's 00:55:52.389 --> 00:55:54.650 not only the test and we do their blood pressure 00:55:54.650 --> 00:55:57.090 and body sort of metrics and things like that. 00:55:57.869 --> 00:56:00.489 So I'm hoping that it would be obvious in which 00:56:00.489 --> 00:56:02.530 case, you know, in our brigade, we wouldn't have 00:56:02.530 --> 00:56:05.510 any. If they're at risk or going to put someone 00:56:05.510 --> 00:56:07.050 else at risk, then we would sort of take them 00:56:07.050 --> 00:56:09.670 off the run. I just hope that other brigades 00:56:09.670 --> 00:56:11.570 do a little bit more and other brigades do even 00:56:11.570 --> 00:56:15.230 less. So there will be a few that sort of slip 00:56:15.230 --> 00:56:17.210 through the net, but we'll never know. But I 00:56:17.210 --> 00:56:20.449 hope it gets sort of picked up. Like so many 00:56:20.449 --> 00:56:22.170 pills, I was just talking to a psychiatrist the 00:56:22.170 --> 00:56:24.570 other day about the use of antidepressants and 00:56:24.570 --> 00:56:27.610 some of the other psychiatric drugs. And he had 00:56:27.610 --> 00:56:30.030 a great analogy. He said, you know, it's that 00:56:30.030 --> 00:56:32.780 they're used just to stabilize. And I think this 00:56:32.780 --> 00:56:34.139 is the case for a lot of drugs, whether you're 00:56:34.139 --> 00:56:37.539 on a drug for hypertension, diabetes, whatever 00:56:37.539 --> 00:56:41.579 it is, unless it's not like type 1, where seemingly 00:56:41.579 --> 00:56:44.519 there don't seem to be any cures for that. But 00:56:44.519 --> 00:56:46.840 let's say you're a borderline type 2 diabetic. 00:56:47.599 --> 00:56:50.000 You could take something to get your sugar down, 00:56:50.139 --> 00:56:51.960 but the goal is to change your exercise habits, 00:56:51.980 --> 00:56:53.820 change your diet to where you're not diabetic 00:56:53.820 --> 00:56:56.360 anymore. The same with hypertension. And even 00:56:56.360 --> 00:56:59.820 with these psych meds, if you are... suicidal 00:56:59.820 --> 00:57:01.800 and yeah they can stabilize you but then you 00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:03.780 have to find the treatments that work to stop 00:57:03.780 --> 00:57:06.619 you you know to unravel your mental health and 00:57:06.619 --> 00:57:08.659 get you back to where you're healthy again and 00:57:08.659 --> 00:57:10.239 you don't need those meds and you come off those 00:57:10.239 --> 00:57:13.900 meds i see an application with these glp ones 00:57:13.900 --> 00:57:16.539 you know you've got someone who is heavier if 00:57:16.539 --> 00:57:19.000 it is given an exit strategy okay we're going 00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:20.599 to use this for x amount of months we're going 00:57:20.599 --> 00:57:22.199 to get you down to this body weight we're going 00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:26.090 to ramp you know start um uh, very deliberately 00:57:26.090 --> 00:57:28.110 increasing your exercise. We're not going to 00:57:28.110 --> 00:57:30.349 throw you into a, you know, Murph on your first 00:57:30.349 --> 00:57:33.130 day, but we've got to create a habit of, of better 00:57:33.130 --> 00:57:35.369 a eating of better gym habits. And let's get 00:57:35.369 --> 00:57:38.130 you eating the foods that are nutritional, even 00:57:38.130 --> 00:57:40.530 though your portions are smaller. So as you come 00:57:40.530 --> 00:57:42.469 off and your appetite goes up, you're, you're 00:57:42.469 --> 00:57:44.909 already enjoying the right food. I think that's 00:57:44.909 --> 00:57:48.570 fine. But what worries me in America, that that's 00:57:48.570 --> 00:57:50.590 not how doctors do it. Most of the doctors like, 00:57:50.650 --> 00:57:51.949 Oh, you've got high blood pressure. You're going 00:57:51.949 --> 00:57:53.760 to be on this rest of your life. you're depressed, 00:57:53.920 --> 00:57:55.960 you're going to be on this the rest of your life. 00:57:56.079 --> 00:57:59.340 And there is no, let's use this just as a bridge 00:57:59.340 --> 00:58:01.860 to get you to holistically not need it anymore. 00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:06.039 Yeah, and I think sort of generally there's a 00:58:06.039 --> 00:58:08.599 rush to get them on the tablets in the first 00:58:08.599 --> 00:58:12.300 place as well. So why not try some of the holistic 00:58:12.300 --> 00:58:16.559 things first? It just seems, and I know that, 00:58:16.619 --> 00:58:18.820 you know, all I can say is in England and the 00:58:18.820 --> 00:58:22.900 NHS, I know everyone is kind of under... pressure 00:58:22.900 --> 00:58:25.320 you have sort of 10 minutes slots they're always 00:58:25.320 --> 00:58:27.800 just sort of running behind and things like that 00:58:27.800 --> 00:58:30.900 so i can see why they think right just sort of 00:58:30.900 --> 00:58:33.159 take this sort of tablet next you know i mean 00:58:33.159 --> 00:58:36.019 and that gives sort of gps a bad name i don't 00:58:36.019 --> 00:58:38.119 mean that at all but there's a lot of pressure 00:58:38.119 --> 00:58:40.219 from their side it just seems the amount of people 00:58:40.219 --> 00:58:42.239 who are on sort of drugs and i haven't tried 00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:45.980 anything else and i think but that again whether 00:58:45.980 --> 00:58:47.760 that's a national problem it sounds like it's 00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:50.139 an international problem of education for gps 00:58:50.139 --> 00:58:52.710 where they should get strength and conditioning 00:58:52.710 --> 00:58:54.690 sort of coaches and nutritionists and things 00:58:54.690 --> 00:58:56.849 like that to educate the gps to say there are 00:58:56.849 --> 00:58:59.610 other things you can try so you use an example 00:58:59.610 --> 00:59:01.449 a couple of years ago i saw a documentary i think 00:59:01.449 --> 00:59:03.349 it was about i don't know if it's blood pressure 00:59:03.349 --> 00:59:06.349 or diabetes but they got a selection of um about 00:59:06.349 --> 00:59:08.789 sort of 10 people range of ages and some were 00:59:08.789 --> 00:59:11.309 really obese and some of all different sort of 00:59:11.309 --> 00:59:14.780 shapes sizes and sexes And they did a test of 00:59:14.780 --> 00:59:17.599 putting them on a dead, as you said, a dead sort 00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:21.420 of basic like an exercise and like nutrition 00:59:21.420 --> 00:59:23.739 plan. And it wasn't like eating like a monk and 00:59:23.739 --> 00:59:25.679 hemp smoothies and salad sandwiches. It was just 00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:28.219 like a sensible, but they even sort of had a 00:59:28.219 --> 00:59:29.800 takeaway night and things like that. So it was 00:59:29.800 --> 00:59:34.219 like an achievable one. And all of them, like 00:59:34.219 --> 00:59:35.380 I said, I can't remember if it was sort of blood 00:59:35.380 --> 00:59:38.360 pressure or diabetes, but all of them, all their 00:59:38.360 --> 00:59:40.619 sort of numbers sort of dropped right into the 00:59:40.619 --> 00:59:43.070 safe zone. and all they did that was for six 00:59:43.070 --> 00:59:45.550 or 12 weeks you think that is absolutely incredible 00:59:45.550 --> 00:59:47.570 the amount of money that that would have saved 00:59:47.570 --> 00:59:49.610 the nhs the amount it would have helped them 00:59:49.610 --> 00:59:51.289 because now they've exactly as you said they've 00:59:51.289 --> 00:59:53.789 got a toolkit now to kind of live for the rest 00:59:53.789 --> 00:59:56.989 of their lives and they know how to fix the problem 00:59:56.989 --> 00:59:59.250 rather than a tablet which sort of technically 00:59:59.250 --> 01:00:01.210 yes it's going to put a plaster over the issue 01:00:01.210 --> 01:00:03.429 but it's still going on in the background you 01:00:03.429 --> 01:00:05.949 know it's the same as like sort of um of like 01:00:05.949 --> 01:00:08.090 a steroid injection i'm not a big fan of them 01:00:08.090 --> 01:00:11.059 sort of generally because all it's doing is it's 01:00:11.059 --> 01:00:12.960 masking the pain it's not sort of solving the 01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:14.420 issue so then you go back and have another one 01:00:14.420 --> 01:00:15.639 and then another one but then once you've had 01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:17.760 your maximum amount then you're screwed and it's 01:00:17.760 --> 01:00:20.340 the same with this so I do I don't want to give 01:00:20.340 --> 01:00:23.619 sort of GPs in the NHS a bad name but I do think 01:00:23.619 --> 01:00:26.440 that people like us are looked not looked down 01:00:26.440 --> 01:00:28.440 upon but we're not seen because we're not all 01:00:28.440 --> 01:00:30.019 sort of doctors we haven't got sort of degrees 01:00:30.019 --> 01:00:34.619 and that and and PhDs but I think we could educate 01:00:34.619 --> 01:00:37.500 like sort of GPs which sounds really sort of 01:00:37.500 --> 01:00:40.730 patronizing but how how effective a strength 01:00:40.730 --> 01:00:43.349 and conditioning program could be for Aunty Dara, 01:00:43.369 --> 01:00:46.190 who's 80 years old. We could make her life a 01:00:46.190 --> 01:00:48.130 lot better where they wouldn't really sort of 01:00:48.130 --> 01:00:50.789 send them to us or we wouldn't get involved first. 01:00:51.150 --> 01:00:54.230 And I think we've got the whole sort of world 01:00:54.230 --> 01:00:55.769 of strength and conditioning can offer a lot 01:00:55.769 --> 01:00:59.269 more in society than it is at the moment. 100%. 01:00:59.269 --> 01:01:02.500 I mean, I had... A chiropractor on a while ago 01:01:02.500 --> 01:01:04.599 from the UK was a firefighter as well. And he 01:01:04.599 --> 01:01:06.639 was talking about strength and conditioning in, 01:01:06.659 --> 01:01:08.900 in the elderly. And you think about it, you know, 01:01:08.900 --> 01:01:11.480 a nursing home should have a gym and that sounds 01:01:11.480 --> 01:01:13.480 bizarre, but I mean, seriously, like, yes, there 01:01:13.480 --> 01:01:14.840 are going to be people that are coming in that 01:01:14.840 --> 01:01:16.519 are already bedridden and, you know, maybe some, 01:01:16.559 --> 01:01:19.599 you know, in chair or something, but. Yeah, if 01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:22.019 you want to stop the fall risk, there's a lady 01:01:22.019 --> 01:01:23.940 I just, I'm literally about to put her episode 01:01:23.940 --> 01:01:26.760 out today. She does vestibular training where 01:01:26.760 --> 01:01:28.980 you get on this, it literally looks like you're 01:01:28.980 --> 01:01:30.579 standing on a record player and you're turning 01:01:30.579 --> 01:01:33.280 and it's resetting the vestibular system in your 01:01:33.280 --> 01:01:36.260 ear and vertigo and some of those things start 01:01:36.260 --> 01:01:38.920 to improve. And she's actually in talks with 01:01:38.920 --> 01:01:41.800 a nursing home company at the moment to put those 01:01:41.800 --> 01:01:44.579 in because, you know, you want to stop hip fractures 01:01:44.579 --> 01:01:46.739 and some of these other things. strength train 01:01:46.739 --> 01:01:48.599 you want to stop osteoporosis strength train 01:01:48.599 --> 01:01:51.320 we know that calcium alone doesn't work so yes 01:01:51.320 --> 01:01:53.539 it needs to be this conversation and what blows 01:01:53.539 --> 01:01:56.179 me away in the uk having grown up in you know 01:01:56.179 --> 01:01:58.840 i was born in the 70s so i would argue it was 01:01:58.840 --> 01:02:01.480 the nhs was still doing really well back then 01:02:01.480 --> 01:02:04.539 and it was how it was supposed to be if you have 01:02:04.539 --> 01:02:06.760 a tax -based system your goal is to make the 01:02:06.969 --> 01:02:10.190 the people as healthy as possible. So you save 01:02:10.190 --> 01:02:12.590 that tax money for childbirths and traffic accidents 01:02:12.590 --> 01:02:15.210 and, God forbid, cancers and some things that 01:02:15.210 --> 01:02:17.349 we all chip in and help fellow British people. 01:02:17.750 --> 01:02:20.309 But if you allow your nation to become fatter 01:02:20.309 --> 01:02:22.989 and sicker, you're destroying, I would argue, 01:02:23.050 --> 01:02:25.769 the best healthcare system on the planet because 01:02:25.769 --> 01:02:28.929 you're not actually understanding that the way 01:02:28.929 --> 01:02:32.670 it works is proactively making sure that everyone 01:02:32.670 --> 01:02:37.099 else is as healthy as possible. Yeah, I mean, 01:02:37.539 --> 01:02:40.699 I'd like to start by, because my mum and dad, 01:02:40.760 --> 01:02:42.619 as I say, they've both gone and the NHS were 01:02:42.619 --> 01:02:45.000 amazing with them and they had sort of illnesses. 01:02:45.099 --> 01:02:46.780 So this isn't a blanket sort of, I don't want 01:02:46.780 --> 01:02:51.940 to start sort of bashing the NHS. However, yeah, 01:02:52.099 --> 01:02:55.739 I think it kind of needs sort of fresh eyes if 01:02:55.739 --> 01:02:57.980 I'm, and again, I'm not in the government at 01:02:57.980 --> 01:02:59.980 all. So this is a really sort of like an idiotic 01:02:59.980 --> 01:03:04.030 kind of look of you. but it just needs sort of 01:03:04.030 --> 01:03:06.030 input from other people where at the moment it's 01:03:06.030 --> 01:03:08.889 that because they're they're so short of money 01:03:08.889 --> 01:03:11.429 that seems to be the a lot of the propriety and 01:03:11.429 --> 01:03:12.909 they're doing the best they can with what they've 01:03:12.909 --> 01:03:15.869 got where i think if you add people a lot sort 01:03:15.869 --> 01:03:19.230 of cleverer than me but like sort of leads and 01:03:19.230 --> 01:03:21.710 strength and conditioning and leads in nutrition 01:03:21.710 --> 01:03:24.269 who are sort of doctors in their field and been 01:03:24.269 --> 01:03:26.869 there and done it even like someone like a sports 01:03:26.869 --> 01:03:30.829 coach who was really successful and get all this 01:03:30.829 --> 01:03:33.610 input from from people and say yeah we could 01:03:33.610 --> 01:03:34.849 have a look at that we could have a look i mean 01:03:34.849 --> 01:03:37.050 it's again reducing it down to a small example 01:03:37.050 --> 01:03:39.610 we and back to the fire service we have a big 01:03:39.610 --> 01:03:42.710 issue of slips trips and falls being like a really 01:03:42.710 --> 01:03:45.809 high sort of cause of sickness at work and i 01:03:45.809 --> 01:03:47.429 went through the stats the other day and we have 01:03:47.429 --> 01:03:50.929 a big percentage of our accidents are sort of 01:03:50.929 --> 01:03:55.409 ankle based in injuries and relating it to two 01:03:55.409 --> 01:03:58.019 old people what The thing that would sort of 01:03:58.019 --> 01:04:00.480 stop that is reaction time. So it's not only 01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:03.519 the exercises in the gym, but the quicker that 01:04:03.519 --> 01:04:05.679 you can react and put your foot out to support 01:04:05.679 --> 01:04:07.340 yourself, it's going to sort of save your knees. 01:04:07.420 --> 01:04:10.619 It's going to save your ankles. So I'm trying 01:04:10.619 --> 01:04:13.019 to build sort of something now where whether 01:04:13.019 --> 01:04:14.820 people take it up and whatnot, it's not sort 01:04:14.820 --> 01:04:17.019 of squatting and benching and things like that. 01:04:17.099 --> 01:04:19.340 So it's not as sexy as that. So I'm not sure 01:04:19.340 --> 01:04:21.880 how many people are doing it, but there is a 01:04:21.880 --> 01:04:25.030 science behind to kind of reduce that. ramping 01:04:25.030 --> 01:04:26.989 that up for the elderly for example that's why 01:04:26.989 --> 01:04:29.309 they get a lot of shoulder injuries and hip injuries 01:04:29.309 --> 01:04:31.909 it's because when they do sort of take a fall 01:04:31.909 --> 01:04:33.429 they haven't got the reactions to put their hands 01:04:33.429 --> 01:04:35.969 out and things like that so even something as 01:04:35.969 --> 01:04:37.730 basic as that there is sort of something that 01:04:37.730 --> 01:04:40.050 that can be done and there's a lot of amazing 01:04:40.050 --> 01:04:42.789 sort of physios who probably sort of do try but 01:04:42.789 --> 01:04:45.550 it should be a campaign it's not always about 01:04:45.550 --> 01:04:48.289 the big sort of medical conditions i think we 01:04:48.289 --> 01:04:51.250 can make a massive dent in a lot of issues that 01:04:51.250 --> 01:04:52.909 are affected when we elderly i read a book the 01:04:52.909 --> 01:04:54.869 other day and he wanted to do a decathlon at 01:04:54.869 --> 01:04:57.949 100 now he didn't mean an actual decathlon but 01:04:57.949 --> 01:04:59.750 he wrote down sort of 10 things he wanted to 01:04:59.750 --> 01:05:01.889 do when he's 100 years old one of them was getting 01:05:01.889 --> 01:05:03.469 up and down off the toilet one of them was sort 01:05:03.469 --> 01:05:05.789 of bending down get getting up on on his kind 01:05:05.789 --> 01:05:08.250 of knees and getting back up again and 10 sort 01:05:08.250 --> 01:05:11.050 of really sort of basic things like that so all 01:05:11.050 --> 01:05:13.710 his training from like sort of the age of 35 01:05:13.710 --> 01:05:17.239 and 40 onwards was geared to to kind of do that 01:05:17.239 --> 01:05:19.860 obviously when he was when he's younger he's 01:05:19.860 --> 01:05:21.639 doing it to the extreme so getting up and down 01:05:21.639 --> 01:05:24.159 off the off the toilet he's he's doing loads 01:05:24.159 --> 01:05:27.599 of heavy sort of like a squats for example but 01:05:27.599 --> 01:05:29.800 as he gets older so that's going to get tapered 01:05:29.800 --> 01:05:31.460 down so he's doing the same sort of movement 01:05:31.460 --> 01:05:33.739 so we can get up and down off the toilet but 01:05:33.739 --> 01:05:35.719 it might just be up and down off of a chair or 01:05:35.719 --> 01:05:37.380 something like that and i thought that was a 01:05:37.380 --> 01:05:39.659 great way to look at it that's that's the target 01:05:39.659 --> 01:05:42.500 as you say It's not to be an athlete really for 01:05:42.500 --> 01:05:44.340 the rest of your life. It's to make sure that 01:05:44.340 --> 01:05:45.739 you function in life, that you can play with 01:05:45.739 --> 01:05:47.920 your grandkids, that you can sort of not have 01:05:47.920 --> 01:05:50.480 a heart attack at the age of 50. They should 01:05:50.480 --> 01:05:54.019 be the long -term goals. Frustratingly, though, 01:05:54.159 --> 01:05:56.340 you only realise that when you're in your 40s 01:05:56.340 --> 01:05:58.460 and 50s and 60s, when you think, oh, crap, I 01:05:58.460 --> 01:06:00.340 wish I started to do that. I always compare it 01:06:00.340 --> 01:06:05.059 to yoga because I've only... done it a couple 01:06:05.059 --> 01:06:06.840 of times but I wish I did that as a teenager 01:06:06.840 --> 01:06:08.639 because now I'd be in a much better condition 01:06:08.639 --> 01:06:10.500 but when you're a teenager that's the most sort 01:06:10.500 --> 01:06:11.820 of boring thing in the world and nobody sort 01:06:11.820 --> 01:06:15.400 of wants to do that so there is a problem with 01:06:15.400 --> 01:06:18.380 what is deemed as normal and cool and things 01:06:18.380 --> 01:06:21.739 like that and I don't know how you get over that 01:06:21.739 --> 01:06:24.300 but the earlier you start to think of I want 01:06:24.300 --> 01:06:27.579 to be a functional sort of 80 year old I think 01:06:28.039 --> 01:06:30.699 It could save in terms of the job -wise. We'll 01:06:30.699 --> 01:06:32.860 be sort of working longer, which we are anyway, 01:06:33.079 --> 01:06:36.639 but in a better condition. And like I say, sort 01:06:36.639 --> 01:06:39.760 of doing things as a pensioner should be the 01:06:39.760 --> 01:06:41.079 goal because that's the most important thing 01:06:41.079 --> 01:06:43.820 really. Absolutely. I'm going to put a bowl of 01:06:43.820 --> 01:06:46.119 chalk and wrist wraps in my toilet. People are 01:06:46.119 --> 01:06:51.940 like, what the hell? I'm going to PR today. All 01:06:51.940 --> 01:06:54.320 right. Well, that being said, let's go back to 01:06:54.320 --> 01:06:56.980 your journey within the fire service itself. 01:06:57.760 --> 01:06:59.840 where did you find yourself assigned once you 01:06:59.840 --> 01:07:02.019 came out of the academy and then what kind of 01:07:02.019 --> 01:07:04.119 environment was that was it urban suburban rural 01:07:04.119 --> 01:07:08.880 etc so it was uh my first station was burton 01:07:08.880 --> 01:07:12.059 um which is near where i live now um and it was 01:07:12.059 --> 01:07:14.380 perfect so it's a probably a bit of all of that 01:07:14.380 --> 01:07:17.239 really it was mainly i'd probably say it's mainly 01:07:17.239 --> 01:07:22.179 urban um sorry yeah it's kind of like a bit of 01:07:22.179 --> 01:07:25.019 both so there's lots of farmland um but there 01:07:25.019 --> 01:07:27.599 it did have some quite sort of dense sort of 01:07:27.599 --> 01:07:30.019 towns and cities as well. So it wasn't a massive 01:07:30.019 --> 01:07:32.360 area, but there was a good sort of mix. So as 01:07:32.360 --> 01:07:34.619 a probationary, it was kind of perfect. We had 01:07:34.619 --> 01:07:38.900 such a range of jobs. The environment, I think, 01:07:38.900 --> 01:07:41.900 was the best it ever was. And again, you sound 01:07:41.900 --> 01:07:44.280 like an old fellow saying it's not what they're 01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:47.179 used to, but it was. So I was probably after 01:07:47.179 --> 01:07:49.460 the proper old school sort of firefighters when 01:07:49.460 --> 01:07:50.760 they're playing sort of volleyball all the time 01:07:50.760 --> 01:07:52.340 and things like that and going out and having 01:07:52.340 --> 01:07:56.199 sort of bars on stations and things like that. 01:07:56.780 --> 01:07:58.820 Although the station I was at had a bar, although 01:07:58.820 --> 01:08:01.199 it was kind of obviously sort of shut down, but 01:08:01.199 --> 01:08:02.840 there was still sort of pictures on the wall 01:08:02.840 --> 01:08:04.239 when there was still a couple of the old guys 01:08:04.239 --> 01:08:06.880 who would sort of tell sort of stories. So although 01:08:06.880 --> 01:08:09.219 I never sort of lived that side of it, I was 01:08:09.219 --> 01:08:11.199 on the end of it, which was amazing. And the 01:08:11.199 --> 01:08:15.840 camaraderie and the characters over the years, 01:08:15.880 --> 01:08:18.789 it's a bit more sort of clinical. I think it 01:08:18.789 --> 01:08:20.449 goes down to even the stations that are being 01:08:20.449 --> 01:08:22.229 replaced. They're a bit more sort of hospital 01:08:22.229 --> 01:08:24.449 -like and they're a bit more standard sort of 01:08:24.449 --> 01:08:26.390 new builds where the old ones had, you know, 01:08:26.390 --> 01:08:28.529 even like down to the poles and it was all a 01:08:28.529 --> 01:08:32.289 bit more sort of rustic, I suppose. It must have 01:08:32.289 --> 01:08:33.930 been a nightmare as an estate sort of manager, 01:08:34.010 --> 01:08:35.430 but as a firefighter, it was great because all 01:08:35.430 --> 01:08:37.609 the buildings had this sort of like kind of character. 01:08:38.489 --> 01:08:40.989 So the area was great. The upbringing in the 01:08:40.989 --> 01:08:45.289 fire service was amazing. Then I moved to... 01:08:46.090 --> 01:08:49.470 station called tamworth at tamworth um which 01:08:49.470 --> 01:08:51.789 was a bit sort of different a bit more of a modern 01:08:51.789 --> 01:08:54.850 station by the time i went there um but that 01:08:54.850 --> 01:08:57.310 was like a boat station so that was quite fun 01:08:57.310 --> 01:09:00.390 so although at burton i had i had the alp which 01:09:00.390 --> 01:09:02.470 is like the aerial sort of ladder platform which 01:09:02.470 --> 01:09:04.250 was amazing which is my favorite sort of special 01:09:04.250 --> 01:09:09.770 um then we went on to to rope and water So that 01:09:09.770 --> 01:09:11.829 means doing, which I'm not a massive, the older 01:09:11.829 --> 01:09:13.510 I got, I hated the water, if I'm honest. And 01:09:13.510 --> 01:09:15.029 that's one of the reasons why I left there, because 01:09:15.029 --> 01:09:17.550 sort of swimming in the rapids in the middle 01:09:17.550 --> 01:09:19.729 of Wales on training days and things like that 01:09:19.729 --> 01:09:21.550 in dry suits. It wasn't my favourite time in 01:09:21.550 --> 01:09:23.729 the middle of winter and things like that. But 01:09:23.729 --> 01:09:25.529 at least it made it a bit more sort of varied. 01:09:25.750 --> 01:09:27.630 It wasn't just house fires and car fires. We 01:09:27.630 --> 01:09:31.250 used to go to these sort of funny jobs. So then 01:09:31.250 --> 01:09:34.250 my last few years operational went back to Burton. 01:09:34.990 --> 01:09:37.670 um so by that time the old Burton station had 01:09:37.670 --> 01:09:40.029 been sort of knocked down so it was it was like 01:09:40.029 --> 01:09:42.630 sort of full circle um and again it was it was 01:09:42.630 --> 01:09:46.789 good going back there but it's I don't know how 01:09:46.789 --> 01:09:48.130 to put it because it makes it sound like a negative 01:09:48.130 --> 01:09:49.689 thing I'm not even saying it's a negative thing 01:09:49.689 --> 01:09:51.409 but the atmosphere is different and there's a 01:09:51.409 --> 01:09:54.210 lot it seemed like there was a lot of older guys 01:09:54.210 --> 01:09:56.289 you've got old kind of like together when now 01:09:56.289 --> 01:10:00.369 it just seems to be loads of young people and 01:10:00.369 --> 01:10:03.029 and because crewing has been sort of cut as well 01:10:03.880 --> 01:10:05.960 like the numbers aren't as big there's a lot 01:10:05.960 --> 01:10:07.640 more sort of young people a lot more sort of 01:10:07.640 --> 01:10:10.619 newer people and it's it the atmosphere is different 01:10:10.619 --> 01:10:12.560 i suppose i don't want to say it's it's worse 01:10:12.560 --> 01:10:16.539 but but like when i started there was crews of 01:10:16.539 --> 01:10:20.039 between sort of 12 and 16 um and now you're riding 01:10:20.039 --> 01:10:22.239 a truck with four people sort of sometimes so 01:10:22.239 --> 01:10:24.079 like the atmosphere is different in a big old 01:10:24.079 --> 01:10:26.359 sort of station it does make a difference only 01:10:26.359 --> 01:10:27.920 having sort of four people there and everyone 01:10:27.920 --> 01:10:30.399 sort of bomb bursts it's it's a bit of an odd 01:10:31.000 --> 01:10:32.619 And that was one of the reasons why I went for 01:10:32.619 --> 01:10:34.899 this job now was because it wasn't the same, 01:10:34.899 --> 01:10:41.619 like essentially. And yeah. That sounds like 01:10:41.619 --> 01:10:43.460 a moan, but I didn't mean that. No, no, no. I 01:10:43.460 --> 01:10:45.800 mean, it is an observation. I mean, my favorite 01:10:45.800 --> 01:10:49.819 crew was 20 years ago now, you know, so yeah, 01:10:49.939 --> 01:10:52.880 I can totally relate. When you reflect back before 01:10:52.880 --> 01:10:55.020 we go to the transition into the strength conditioning 01:10:55.020 --> 01:10:58.220 side. through the career that you had operationally 01:10:58.220 --> 01:11:00.739 what was some of the the career calls it can 01:11:00.739 --> 01:11:02.619 be big events or they could simply be moments 01:11:02.619 --> 01:11:06.939 of kindness and compassion uh well there's quite 01:11:06.939 --> 01:11:10.439 a few to be fair i think there was i mean i started 01:11:10.439 --> 01:11:14.819 there was a few sort of wow sort of moments where 01:11:14.819 --> 01:11:17.020 and again you don't really realize it at the 01:11:17.020 --> 01:11:19.300 time but i remember once so one of the main roads 01:11:19.300 --> 01:11:22.880 through the burton area is called the a38 um 01:11:22.880 --> 01:11:24.840 it's quite a busy sort of like a fast road and 01:11:25.850 --> 01:11:27.850 I wasn't a probationer, so I was out of that, 01:11:27.949 --> 01:11:29.829 but I was still probably about five or six years 01:11:29.829 --> 01:11:33.329 in. And there was a car that flipped over on 01:11:33.329 --> 01:11:35.489 the other side of the road, sort of upside down, 01:11:35.510 --> 01:11:37.770 and crashed into this poor other car that was 01:11:37.770 --> 01:11:39.729 kind of minding its own business, but sort of 01:11:39.729 --> 01:11:42.270 basically hit it head first. And there was probably 01:11:42.270 --> 01:11:44.189 seven or eight, well, there was more than that 01:11:44.189 --> 01:11:45.970 casualties, probably about 10 sort of casualties, 01:11:46.250 --> 01:11:49.390 and six or seven of them were dead as we arrived, 01:11:49.550 --> 01:11:53.229 basically. And that was probably, even though 01:11:53.229 --> 01:11:55.210 I was in... five or six years, that's probably 01:11:55.210 --> 01:11:59.090 the first big job I had. So it was those and 01:11:59.090 --> 01:12:01.210 it probably only took like a second where you 01:12:01.210 --> 01:12:02.930 pull up that you don't know where to start. And 01:12:02.930 --> 01:12:06.350 frustratingly, there was an off -duty paramedic. 01:12:06.810 --> 01:12:08.609 um because obviously over here it's a bit sort 01:12:08.609 --> 01:12:10.909 of different we're not we we're trained as trauma 01:12:10.909 --> 01:12:12.909 care but we haven't got the qualifications that 01:12:12.909 --> 01:12:15.149 you guys have over there because is it every 01:12:15.149 --> 01:12:18.210 station you're a paramedic firefighter or is 01:12:18.210 --> 01:12:21.489 that only yeah most apart from the northeast 01:12:21.489 --> 01:12:23.569 tends to still have them separate but most of 01:12:23.569 --> 01:12:25.670 the country you're going to be firefighter emt 01:12:25.670 --> 01:12:28.069 or firefighter paramedic which is that the higher 01:12:28.069 --> 01:12:31.270 level of those two right yeah so so we're not 01:12:31.270 --> 01:12:33.670 like that at all we've got a basic level of trauma 01:12:33.670 --> 01:12:36.420 care but our basic trauma care is to hold them 01:12:36.420 --> 01:12:37.920 together and patch them up until the ambulance 01:12:37.920 --> 01:12:40.859 come, really. So we were the first pump there 01:12:40.859 --> 01:12:43.239 with an off -duty paramedic. And it was like, 01:12:43.279 --> 01:12:44.760 well, where do you start? We had sort of five 01:12:44.760 --> 01:12:48.539 people on the truck. But it was like, I consciously 01:12:48.539 --> 01:12:50.800 remember sort of glancing out and seeing a few 01:12:50.800 --> 01:12:53.859 sort of bodies and things. And I was, in my head, 01:12:53.899 --> 01:12:57.140 it was like, fuck. But it was like sort of two 01:12:57.140 --> 01:12:58.779 seconds. Then, right, it's game time. And then 01:12:58.779 --> 01:13:01.579 you just sort of get into it. So there are ones 01:13:01.579 --> 01:13:03.960 like that sort of to stick out. There's other 01:13:03.960 --> 01:13:06.770 bad ones where you're, you know, in like a car 01:13:06.770 --> 01:13:08.829 accident, for example, and you're holding someone's 01:13:08.829 --> 01:13:11.649 sort of neck still while they're getting sort 01:13:11.649 --> 01:13:13.289 of cut out and things like that. And you're talking 01:13:13.289 --> 01:13:14.869 to them and making conversations to take them. 01:13:14.970 --> 01:13:16.329 And then you find out sort of later that they 01:13:16.329 --> 01:13:18.750 died and things like that. So there were, there 01:13:18.750 --> 01:13:23.029 are a handful that was stuck in my head. However, 01:13:23.170 --> 01:13:25.729 I would, and I don't think this is a, I don't 01:13:25.729 --> 01:13:26.930 know if this is a good or bad reflection of my 01:13:26.930 --> 01:13:30.149 personality, but I was quite good at compartmentalizing 01:13:30.149 --> 01:13:35.460 it. I'd never really. I kind of have moved on 01:13:35.460 --> 01:13:37.819 pretty quick, and that sounds really harsh, but 01:13:37.819 --> 01:13:40.720 it's only now when I'm kind of out of that bit 01:13:40.720 --> 01:13:42.539 of a job. We watch these sort of ambulance programs 01:13:42.539 --> 01:13:46.439 and rescue programs, and then I say to my wife, 01:13:46.560 --> 01:13:47.560 oh, yeah, I've been to a job like that. I've 01:13:47.560 --> 01:13:51.779 been to a job when someone was decapitated and 01:13:51.779 --> 01:13:53.979 things like that. But I haven't thought about 01:13:53.979 --> 01:13:56.380 that for 15 years, but it's just when I see it, 01:13:56.439 --> 01:13:58.159 and Mrs. is like, what, really? And you're like, 01:13:58.199 --> 01:14:01.000 yeah. It's not come back to me. So whether I'll 01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:02.640 have a breakdown in 20 years' time, I don't know. 01:14:03.410 --> 01:14:07.810 But I tend to cope quite well with it. But on 01:14:07.810 --> 01:14:09.630 the flip side of it, there's some amazing jobs. 01:14:10.289 --> 01:14:12.810 And again, this doesn't sound sort of great to 01:14:12.810 --> 01:14:15.189 the public of anyone who's outside the job, but 01:14:15.189 --> 01:14:17.270 the amount of laugh that you have on a job, even 01:14:17.270 --> 01:14:20.050 if it's a relatively bad one, which kind of sounds 01:14:20.050 --> 01:14:22.770 horrific and sort of distasteful, not on sort 01:14:22.770 --> 01:14:26.489 of fatalities and things like that, but the amount 01:14:26.489 --> 01:14:30.260 of banter that was sort of knocking around. especially 01:14:30.260 --> 01:14:33.079 if you put up to a job that's on a neighbouring, 01:14:33.079 --> 01:14:35.460 with a neighbouring sort of like a station. So 01:14:35.460 --> 01:14:37.960 it's not only your crew, there's other people 01:14:37.960 --> 01:14:39.560 there that you might not have seen for a few 01:14:39.560 --> 01:14:41.560 weeks or months or even sort of years. And you 01:14:41.560 --> 01:14:42.819 think, oh, Mark, how are you doing? And you sort 01:14:42.819 --> 01:14:46.539 of catch up. That kind of, I don't like the word, 01:14:46.579 --> 01:14:48.680 it's a bit kind of cheesy, but like the brotherhood, 01:14:48.699 --> 01:14:51.699 it is a real thing and it doesn't ever go away. 01:14:51.979 --> 01:14:55.279 And that, I don't think you can find that anywhere 01:14:55.279 --> 01:14:57.439 else. I think it is only in the tactical sort 01:14:57.439 --> 01:15:01.260 of sectors. Now maybe sort of, a bias but like 01:15:01.260 --> 01:15:02.920 the police and the military and the fire I think 01:15:02.920 --> 01:15:05.220 that's where it's sort of really unique and the 01:15:05.220 --> 01:15:08.640 relationship between those three as well not 01:15:08.640 --> 01:15:10.319 so much the military obviously we didn't have 01:15:10.319 --> 01:15:12.300 any contact really with the military but there's 01:15:12.300 --> 01:15:14.699 obviously a crossover with the police and there's 01:15:14.699 --> 01:15:16.500 a bit of Mickey taking sort of both ways with 01:15:16.500 --> 01:15:21.020 that in like a light hired way and that I think 01:15:21.020 --> 01:15:24.640 that's something that I won't ever sort of take 01:15:24.640 --> 01:15:27.560 for granted and I don't think and that's the 01:15:27.560 --> 01:15:30.239 hardest thing I think that i'm finding hard to 01:15:30.239 --> 01:15:31.779 replicate in now because essentially what i do 01:15:31.779 --> 01:15:34.159 is an office job or a gym based job so i'm not 01:15:34.159 --> 01:15:37.100 in i'm not on sort of stations in in a watch 01:15:37.100 --> 01:15:38.920 environment every day and things like that so 01:15:38.920 --> 01:15:41.140 that's the thing i miss the most and that's the 01:15:41.140 --> 01:15:45.960 thing that i'll always have with me really what's 01:15:45.960 --> 01:15:49.699 interesting is i never struggled when it came 01:15:49.699 --> 01:15:51.840 to the mental health side don't get me wrong 01:15:51.840 --> 01:15:53.720 i had lows there's no question i went through 01:15:53.720 --> 01:15:56.119 my divorce and single dad working you know being 01:15:56.119 --> 01:15:58.989 forced to work extra shifts That was brutal. 01:15:59.149 --> 01:16:02.829 And so I've always asked the question, well, 01:16:02.869 --> 01:16:06.409 why not? I am by no means any more special than 01:16:06.409 --> 01:16:08.630 anyone else who's towed the line in a uniform. 01:16:08.729 --> 01:16:11.789 So what is that thing? Something happened along 01:16:11.789 --> 01:16:15.029 the way that allowed me to be slightly different 01:16:15.029 --> 01:16:17.869 than someone else. And through all these conversations, 01:16:18.050 --> 01:16:20.810 a common denominator seems to be that even if 01:16:20.810 --> 01:16:23.960 people had... traumatic experiences when they 01:16:23.960 --> 01:16:25.880 were younger. And most of us did, which is what 01:16:25.880 --> 01:16:29.079 led us to uniform in the first place. If those 01:16:29.079 --> 01:16:32.659 were just pushed down and left unaddressed, it 01:16:32.659 --> 01:16:34.800 becomes a fracture to your foundation. I think, 01:16:34.800 --> 01:16:36.260 you know, more often than not, that's actually 01:16:36.260 --> 01:16:38.319 the origin story to a lot of people struggling 01:16:38.319 --> 01:16:40.479 in the military and first responders when they 01:16:40.479 --> 01:16:42.420 do, you know, whether it's a psychedelic journey 01:16:42.420 --> 01:16:45.420 or just simply a therapy session. But what I 01:16:45.420 --> 01:16:47.920 saw is growing up in a farm in England. with 01:16:47.920 --> 01:16:49.520 all the horrible shit that happened including 01:16:49.520 --> 01:16:51.920 almost dying in a house fire myself at four years 01:16:51.920 --> 01:16:54.739 old there were so many elements that we know 01:16:54.739 --> 01:16:56.979 are healing now i grew up on a farm we had you 01:16:56.979 --> 01:17:00.239 know real food grew up around animals you know 01:17:00.239 --> 01:17:02.119 horses and dogs and things that we know heal 01:17:02.119 --> 01:17:05.319 now i was uncomfortable i got dirty i mean we 01:17:05.319 --> 01:17:07.489 had a giant kitchen table that we'd make fun 01:17:07.489 --> 01:17:09.289 of each other, which is just like the firehouse. 01:17:09.470 --> 01:17:11.689 So there was all those things that allow me to 01:17:11.689 --> 01:17:14.329 offload. That's the only difference between me 01:17:14.329 --> 01:17:16.449 and so many of my friends that have been there 01:17:16.449 --> 01:17:19.149 with the pistol and the bottle of whiskey. When 01:17:19.149 --> 01:17:21.449 you look back now, are there any elements of 01:17:21.449 --> 01:17:23.649 your upbringing that you think allowed you to 01:17:23.649 --> 01:17:27.489 process the horrible shit that we see when some 01:17:27.489 --> 01:17:31.529 of our men and women struggle with that? That's 01:17:31.529 --> 01:17:37.399 a good question. I don't know I suppose I suppose 01:17:37.399 --> 01:17:41.659 again it sounds a bit sort of backwards but the 01:17:41.659 --> 01:17:44.840 freedom although I never sort of needed it I 01:17:44.840 --> 01:17:47.380 mean mum especially was sort of super sort of 01:17:47.380 --> 01:17:49.619 trusting and I remember you know this isn't a 01:17:49.619 --> 01:17:52.079 great thing to say in public but when I was about 01:17:52.079 --> 01:17:56.460 I'll say I was 60 sorry I was 17 and a week away 01:17:56.460 --> 01:17:57.899 from my 18th birthday that might be a little 01:17:57.899 --> 01:18:00.159 while but my mum sort of worked at a school so 01:18:00.159 --> 01:18:01.739 she sort of photocopied me birth certificate 01:18:01.739 --> 01:18:04.300 and changed the year so I'd be a year older so 01:18:04.300 --> 01:18:06.800 I could get into pubs and things like that there's 01:18:06.800 --> 01:18:09.960 not many mums which is sort of a super cool slash 01:18:09.960 --> 01:18:12.880 legal thing to do but my mum was kind of like 01:18:12.880 --> 01:18:15.319 that but because of that I never really rebelled 01:18:15.319 --> 01:18:17.159 I was never I was quite a good kid you know I 01:18:17.159 --> 01:18:19.579 sort of towed the line and things like that because 01:18:19.579 --> 01:18:21.380 I Because I didn't have all the restrictions 01:18:21.380 --> 01:18:24.319 kind of put on me. I had that freedom. I never 01:18:24.319 --> 01:18:27.319 felt the need to kind of rebel. And having that 01:18:27.319 --> 01:18:30.600 kind of upbringing, but on the flip side of it, 01:18:30.659 --> 01:18:33.420 if I needed to speak, I would. And we were really 01:18:33.420 --> 01:18:35.279 honest with each other, sometimes sort of painfully 01:18:35.279 --> 01:18:38.359 honest and things like that. So that was, I suppose, 01:18:38.420 --> 01:18:41.380 is the nearest thing in that we had a quite small, 01:18:41.500 --> 01:18:44.159 a big family, but there was only a small amount 01:18:44.159 --> 01:18:49.319 of us who kind of saw each other, really. And 01:18:49.319 --> 01:18:51.520 whether I'll, this is getting a bit sort of deep 01:18:51.520 --> 01:18:53.960 now, but like I watch now sort of Christmas films 01:18:53.960 --> 01:18:55.840 and things and you see like big families of 20 01:18:55.840 --> 01:18:59.000 people all around having banter. And I kind of 01:18:59.000 --> 01:19:01.239 envied that all my life, really, because we got 01:19:01.239 --> 01:19:04.579 quite a small family. So I love that environment. 01:19:04.720 --> 01:19:06.800 The amount of times I was sat around a table 01:19:06.800 --> 01:19:08.880 and I wasn't even in the conversation, but you're 01:19:08.880 --> 01:19:11.140 glancing around at these sort of 10 blokes and 01:19:11.140 --> 01:19:13.859 laughing and joking and taking the mick out of 01:19:13.859 --> 01:19:17.779 each other. That was like my happy place. and 01:19:17.779 --> 01:19:20.800 i think that's if you're comfortable in people's 01:19:20.800 --> 01:19:23.279 sort of company it's not always talking about 01:19:23.279 --> 01:19:25.960 the event that helps i think it's just being 01:19:25.960 --> 01:19:28.100 in a relaxing where you can take your mind off 01:19:28.100 --> 01:19:29.939 it a little bit and you can just talk about absolute 01:19:29.939 --> 01:19:32.539 sort of rubbish remember it's sort of football 01:19:32.539 --> 01:19:34.859 or whatever it doesn't always mean because i 01:19:34.859 --> 01:19:36.899 think a lot of people they misunderstand when 01:19:36.899 --> 01:19:38.779 they say you get a bit of counselling on sort 01:19:38.779 --> 01:19:40.420 of stations sort of with your watch with your 01:19:40.420 --> 01:19:42.960 crew it's not it doesn't mean that you're analysing 01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:44.779 the job that you've been on it just means that 01:19:44.779 --> 01:19:46.819 half an hour of having a brew and talking about 01:19:46.819 --> 01:19:49.760 absolute crap but that kind of it kind of puts 01:19:49.760 --> 01:19:51.340 you in a happy place and then you're ready to 01:19:51.340 --> 01:19:53.000 go again it doesn't mean that you analyse the 01:19:53.000 --> 01:19:54.539 job and go the ins and outs I should have done 01:19:54.539 --> 01:19:56.220 this I'm glad I did this so I wouldn't initiate 01:19:56.220 --> 01:19:58.739 it's kind of like the opposite as well and I 01:19:58.739 --> 01:20:01.760 think that kind of family environment that kind 01:20:01.760 --> 01:20:03.859 of group sort of team environment if you like 01:20:04.890 --> 01:20:07.689 is is what i enjoy and that's where i feel the 01:20:07.689 --> 01:20:10.689 most like at ease so that's probably the closest 01:20:10.689 --> 01:20:14.430 sort of link from like me from like me upbringing 01:20:14.430 --> 01:20:18.210 up to the job is it that same element that was 01:20:18.210 --> 01:20:21.189 there in your early station that you missed when 01:20:21.189 --> 01:20:23.050 you went back and it was a new station and a 01:20:23.050 --> 01:20:26.880 smaller crew I think so, yeah. And that's what 01:20:26.880 --> 01:20:28.920 I was always sort of craving for that again, 01:20:28.979 --> 01:20:31.979 but it never quite reached. So I started on an 01:20:31.979 --> 01:20:34.659 amazing watch with loads of super clever people 01:20:34.659 --> 01:20:36.579 in terms of the job and so operationally, but 01:20:36.579 --> 01:20:38.880 super, super funny and loud and things like that. 01:20:40.039 --> 01:20:42.880 And then there was another crew like once, because 01:20:42.880 --> 01:20:44.800 obviously sort of people retire and things. And 01:20:44.800 --> 01:20:46.000 then there was another one exactly the same. 01:20:46.020 --> 01:20:48.100 They were a bit more sort of my age. And that 01:20:48.100 --> 01:20:50.880 was more of like we had a proper laugh. Everyone 01:20:50.880 --> 01:20:54.050 was on the same page. And I'd probably say, it 01:20:54.050 --> 01:20:55.850 sounds horrible, so apologies if anyone has worked 01:20:55.850 --> 01:20:57.510 with me over the years, but probably so, I'm 01:20:57.510 --> 01:21:00.449 20 years now. I'd probably say from eight or 01:21:00.449 --> 01:21:04.069 nine years onwards, that was when it changed, 01:21:04.130 --> 01:21:06.649 when sort of watches started to bomb burst and 01:21:06.649 --> 01:21:08.630 people were leaving, retiring or move sort of 01:21:08.630 --> 01:21:11.369 stations or whatever. I never found that again. 01:21:11.590 --> 01:21:15.689 And that's when the, like I say, when I say the 01:21:15.689 --> 01:21:18.010 shine's coming off the job, I don't like to ever 01:21:18.010 --> 01:21:20.869 sort of moan about the job. But for me, it kind 01:21:20.869 --> 01:21:25.109 of lost its, all the best bits weren't as good 01:21:25.109 --> 01:21:27.449 as they were if that makes sense um and a lot 01:21:27.449 --> 01:21:30.449 of the changes a lot of it mainly down to the 01:21:30.449 --> 01:21:32.329 crewing and the changes in the in our day -to 01:21:32.329 --> 01:21:34.949 -day sort of work role it wasn't the same so 01:21:34.949 --> 01:21:36.590 again i'm not saying it's good or bad it just 01:21:36.590 --> 01:21:40.210 it it lost its shine for fun for me and that's 01:21:40.210 --> 01:21:41.970 when i started to get a bit of itchy feet really 01:21:41.970 --> 01:21:46.050 so you reflect back and you look at what worked 01:21:46.050 --> 01:21:49.329 and not talking about mental health at all obviously 01:21:49.329 --> 01:21:53.180 was a bad part of 20 years ago but I would argue 01:21:53.180 --> 01:21:56.399 that working out as a crew, training as a crew, 01:21:56.600 --> 01:22:00.460 shopping as a crew. And then all that banter 01:22:00.460 --> 01:22:03.220 where political correctness really wasn't a thing 01:22:03.220 --> 01:22:05.760 back then, you know, it was very healing. And 01:22:05.760 --> 01:22:08.060 now you look at, you know, that conversation 01:22:08.060 --> 01:22:09.979 that everyone's offended about everything in 01:22:09.979 --> 01:22:11.899 certain areas, which I think is very dangerous. 01:22:12.079 --> 01:22:14.039 I like the South Park mentality. You just make 01:22:14.039 --> 01:22:17.720 fun of everyone. So no one gets offended. But 01:22:17.720 --> 01:22:20.720 then, you know, the devices, the individual dorms, 01:22:20.720 --> 01:22:23.770 which are such a good idea for sleep. You have 01:22:23.770 --> 01:22:25.710 to then make sure that you stay in the communal 01:22:25.710 --> 01:22:27.970 areas as much as possible so you don't lose that 01:22:27.970 --> 01:22:30.789 camaraderie. And then you said the gallows humor, 01:22:30.869 --> 01:22:32.989 the dark humor, that has to be part of what we 01:22:32.989 --> 01:22:36.149 do. And I think that, you know, if you saw, we 01:22:36.149 --> 01:22:38.229 were talking about young people revisiting early. 01:22:38.350 --> 01:22:41.050 If we were able to refine that element in the 01:22:41.050 --> 01:22:43.970 modern fire service, I think the need for peer 01:22:43.970 --> 01:22:45.430 support and some of these other things would 01:22:45.430 --> 01:22:47.630 go down because that is the ultimate peer support. 01:22:47.750 --> 01:22:50.270 The kitchen table I had as a young farm boy. 01:22:50.810 --> 01:22:53.189 And the firehouse table of Station One in Anaheim 01:22:53.189 --> 01:22:58.789 back in 2006, 2007, you know, that was our therapy, 01:22:58.789 --> 01:23:00.770 just like you said. That and the shopping and 01:23:00.770 --> 01:23:03.210 the sports and the training and the loading hose 01:23:03.210 --> 01:23:06.229 at the end, that was all micro therapy sessions. 01:23:07.329 --> 01:23:10.770 Yeah, and I'd probably say, and speaking for 01:23:10.770 --> 01:23:13.090 myself, I was probably the best at my job at 01:23:13.090 --> 01:23:15.850 that point as well, in terms of I was at optimum 01:23:15.850 --> 01:23:18.609 sort of keenness, if that's a word. I was sort 01:23:18.609 --> 01:23:20.939 of... switched on we were all sort of helping 01:23:20.939 --> 01:23:23.420 each other I was you know I wanted to be a sponge 01:23:23.420 --> 01:23:26.479 and learn everything as soon as that sort of 01:23:26.479 --> 01:23:29.300 side of it started to to kind of dropped I kind 01:23:29.300 --> 01:23:32.659 of I was never lazy but you know I just kind 01:23:32.659 --> 01:23:35.020 of stopped sort of striving to learn that that 01:23:35.020 --> 01:23:38.579 extra bit I stopped sort of striving to get better 01:23:38.579 --> 01:23:40.079 and better and better and I felt like I could 01:23:40.079 --> 01:23:42.319 do the job sort of comfortably I'd seen and done 01:23:42.319 --> 01:23:44.640 sort of most things I felt sort of confident 01:23:44.640 --> 01:23:48.689 I was never sort of out of you know, out of touch 01:23:48.689 --> 01:23:52.289 with what I can do, but I lost that sort of drive. 01:23:52.390 --> 01:23:54.130 And some people don't sort of reach that point 01:23:54.130 --> 01:23:56.229 and they have a 34 -year career and they're absolutely 01:23:56.229 --> 01:23:58.149 sort of smashing it and good luck to them. But 01:23:58.149 --> 01:24:01.409 for me, I felt like that was part of the job 01:24:01.409 --> 01:24:04.369 for me, was that side of it. It wasn't sort of 01:24:04.369 --> 01:24:06.989 just putting out the fires. It was all that. 01:24:07.069 --> 01:24:10.270 So when that started to erode a little bit, it 01:24:10.270 --> 01:24:12.510 affected like my whole sort of outlook on the 01:24:12.510 --> 01:24:16.350 job. And again, that's on me. again i'm not saying 01:24:16.350 --> 01:24:19.689 it's a good or a bad thing um and if you know 01:24:19.689 --> 01:24:21.409 if anyone who has ever sort of worked me saying 01:24:21.409 --> 01:24:24.130 oh that that's why you were crap but i was but 01:24:24.130 --> 01:24:29.149 it was uh it you know i lost that kind of i don't 01:24:29.149 --> 01:24:30.770 use the word drive because i was never like i 01:24:30.770 --> 01:24:32.630 say it makes me sound like an idiot but i wasn't 01:24:32.630 --> 01:24:35.109 i wasn't ever late i didn't ever sort of struggle 01:24:35.109 --> 01:24:38.369 but i was never the same that those first sort 01:24:38.369 --> 01:24:41.989 of eight or nine years it it wasn't the same 01:24:41.989 --> 01:24:45.520 essentially Well, I think it goes also to what 01:24:45.520 --> 01:24:47.880 we're seeing now where, and I'm not saying this 01:24:47.880 --> 01:24:49.960 is the case in any of your stations at all, but 01:24:49.960 --> 01:24:52.699 to use an extreme example, where there is toxic 01:24:52.699 --> 01:24:54.880 culture. And I've experienced this, especially 01:24:54.880 --> 01:24:58.399 the last place I worked. When I was in Anaheim, 01:24:58.399 --> 01:25:00.060 when I was in, you know, one of my favorite departments, 01:25:00.319 --> 01:25:03.399 I couldn't wait to get to work because I knew 01:25:03.399 --> 01:25:05.819 that whatever we saw, whatever horrible shit, 01:25:05.880 --> 01:25:09.489 whatever, you know. hoarder home with with disgusting 01:25:09.489 --> 01:25:12.029 conditions and the daughters now inherited the 01:25:12.029 --> 01:25:13.869 home and the mother's rotting in a bed in the 01:25:13.869 --> 01:25:16.029 middle of the room whatever nasty stuff you had 01:25:16.029 --> 01:25:19.189 to respond to you knew that there was going to 01:25:19.189 --> 01:25:22.010 equally and oppositely be this camaraderie this 01:25:22.010 --> 01:25:25.689 this banter all that stuff but then you go to 01:25:25.689 --> 01:25:27.930 those same calls and then you go back to the 01:25:27.930 --> 01:25:30.710 station you're almost like don't want to go back 01:25:30.710 --> 01:25:33.050 because you got to deal with this you know a 01:25:33.050 --> 01:25:35.649 hole in your station or whatever it is now you 01:25:35.649 --> 01:25:38.810 don't have that positive outlet so there is you 01:25:38.810 --> 01:25:40.670 know it's such an important conversation that's 01:25:40.670 --> 01:25:42.630 starting to gain traction now is you know if 01:25:42.630 --> 01:25:45.489 you if you don't have a good culture in your 01:25:45.489 --> 01:25:48.630 fire department that is so dangerous as far as 01:25:48.630 --> 01:25:50.630 the mental health of your people and then like 01:25:50.630 --> 01:25:53.350 you said then the desire to even be a fired up 01:25:53.350 --> 01:25:55.090 firefighter because people probably just want 01:25:55.090 --> 01:25:56.510 to get the hell out of there as soon as their 01:25:56.510 --> 01:26:00.069 shift's done yeah that's it's interesting actually 01:26:00.069 --> 01:26:01.710 yeah because i never really thought of it that 01:26:01.710 --> 01:26:03.229 way but i think i had a similar thing it wasn't 01:26:03.229 --> 01:26:05.130 necessarily a bad culture but the job was changing 01:26:05.130 --> 01:26:08.470 a lot so i joined at a time where there was so 01:26:08.470 --> 01:26:10.310 many sort of changes and not only sort of cuts 01:26:10.310 --> 01:26:12.289 to numbers but in terms of what we had to do 01:26:12.289 --> 01:26:15.130 sort of day to day it was a lot more sort of 01:26:15.130 --> 01:26:17.090 tracks and scheduled and you had sort of minimum 01:26:17.090 --> 01:26:19.470 targets of fitting smoke alarms and school visits 01:26:19.470 --> 01:26:22.010 and things like that where it got a lot more 01:26:22.010 --> 01:26:23.930 sort of regimented they basically sort of didn't 01:26:23.930 --> 01:26:26.310 want you to have much sort of free time it all 01:26:26.310 --> 01:26:28.369 had to be kind of filled sort of doing community 01:26:28.369 --> 01:26:32.100 work And that was roughly at the same time. So 01:26:32.100 --> 01:26:34.239 like I say, it wasn't the toxic culture because 01:26:34.239 --> 01:26:36.300 I think generally we're not too bad in staff. 01:26:36.399 --> 01:26:39.319 Obviously, there's the odd individual. But I 01:26:39.319 --> 01:26:41.079 think because the job was changing, it wasn't 01:26:41.079 --> 01:26:43.119 the job that I joined. So God knows what the 01:26:43.119 --> 01:26:44.979 people who joined sort of 10, 15 years before 01:26:44.979 --> 01:26:47.319 me, it was even worse because that was like the 01:26:47.319 --> 01:26:49.300 prime days then when all you did was do sports 01:26:49.300 --> 01:26:53.319 and train and things like that. So, yes, I think 01:26:53.319 --> 01:26:55.500 it's all tied into one. I don't ever think there's 01:26:55.500 --> 01:26:58.239 one sort of reason. I don't ever think there's 01:26:58.239 --> 01:27:01.949 a... right or wrong but i do think as culture 01:27:01.949 --> 01:27:04.890 changes as as the job changes you kind of have 01:27:04.890 --> 01:27:07.689 sort of two choices so i reached so when i got 01:27:07.689 --> 01:27:11.510 to 17 years ish um i was sat around once and 01:27:11.510 --> 01:27:13.970 we were sort of moaning about something really 01:27:13.970 --> 01:27:17.310 tiny and i can't remember sort of what it was 01:27:17.310 --> 01:27:19.149 but i had like an out -of -body experience and 01:27:19.149 --> 01:27:20.890 i thought i've got a choice now i've got sort 01:27:20.890 --> 01:27:23.710 of however many sort of years left i've got 17 01:27:23.710 --> 01:27:28.680 left now if i stay till sort of 60. But I got 01:27:28.680 --> 01:27:31.479 a choice of turning into a grumpy old firefighter 01:27:31.479 --> 01:27:34.359 who moans about when the toilet roll changes 01:27:34.359 --> 01:27:38.899 and things like that. Or I could try something 01:27:38.899 --> 01:27:42.659 new. So I thought, if I had five years left or 01:27:42.659 --> 01:27:44.380 something, I think I would have just stayed a 01:27:44.380 --> 01:27:47.880 grumpy firefighter and just sort of seen it out. 01:27:48.220 --> 01:27:50.199 And I think you've got that sort of... And I 01:27:50.199 --> 01:27:54.449 don't think that's especially... specific to 01:27:54.449 --> 01:27:55.949 the fire service well I imagine that's every 01:27:55.949 --> 01:27:58.270 kind of walk of life of a job and you got a you 01:27:58.270 --> 01:27:59.949 got a choice of sucking it up and just sort of 01:27:59.949 --> 01:28:02.350 seeing your days out or making a difference and 01:28:02.350 --> 01:28:04.310 I didn't want to be a moany person because I 01:28:04.310 --> 01:28:07.010 felt it in the probationers that they would come 01:28:07.010 --> 01:28:08.810 in and I was always as good as I could be with 01:28:08.810 --> 01:28:10.489 probationers and as positive as I could be and 01:28:10.489 --> 01:28:12.750 things like that where some older guys would 01:28:12.750 --> 01:28:14.350 be sort of my I wouldn't sort of trust doing 01:28:14.350 --> 01:28:15.869 the job sort of crap and things like that and 01:28:15.869 --> 01:28:17.649 I hated that you shouldn't be saying that to 01:28:17.649 --> 01:28:21.479 a probationer because you've got to kind of make 01:28:21.479 --> 01:28:23.199 them feel as welcome as possible. I don't think 01:28:23.199 --> 01:28:25.460 that helps anyone. If you're telling them how 01:28:25.460 --> 01:28:27.840 bad the job is, I don't think that's a good way 01:28:27.840 --> 01:28:30.739 to go. So I was never sort of like that. But 01:28:30.739 --> 01:28:32.699 little things like that, I'd clock and say, this 01:28:32.699 --> 01:28:35.060 ain't right. And so that's when you think, you 01:28:35.060 --> 01:28:37.699 know, I've got a choice to make here. So what 01:28:37.699 --> 01:28:39.680 was it that you chose? What were the options 01:28:39.680 --> 01:28:41.699 that you had to get out of the station full time? 01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:45.560 Well, it came out of the blue, really. So for 01:28:45.560 --> 01:28:48.880 a few years before I came off watch, I was a 01:28:48.880 --> 01:28:51.859 PT in terms I did like the annual sort of fitness 01:28:51.859 --> 01:28:54.340 testing for the service. So there's me and a 01:28:54.340 --> 01:28:57.119 group of others and we just do the testing and 01:28:57.119 --> 01:28:59.020 then we sort of send the paperwork off to the 01:28:59.020 --> 01:29:01.699 fitness advisor and she'll sort of log it all 01:29:01.699 --> 01:29:03.159 and do all the research and things like that. 01:29:04.300 --> 01:29:07.880 She sort of left the service. And then so the 01:29:07.880 --> 01:29:10.539 service advertised for a six month sort of temporary 01:29:10.539 --> 01:29:13.670 while they find someone else does anyone want 01:29:13.670 --> 01:29:17.609 to do doing the job for six months so i'm denied 01:29:17.609 --> 01:29:20.329 for ages and i thought well a bit like becoming 01:29:20.329 --> 01:29:21.970 a firefighter i'll give it a go i'll apply for 01:29:21.970 --> 01:29:23.390 it i probably won't get it and then we'll see 01:29:23.390 --> 01:29:25.170 what happens so i went for it and i got i got 01:29:25.170 --> 01:29:26.810 it so i thought i'll do it for six months which 01:29:26.810 --> 01:29:30.569 was scary because going from two to four um because 01:29:30.569 --> 01:29:31.869 whether we talk about the shifts because i know 01:29:31.869 --> 01:29:33.649 you're sort of super passionate about the about 01:29:33.649 --> 01:29:38.409 the shifts a little bit um so we we did a our 01:29:38.409 --> 01:29:40.609 standard whole time is two days and two nights 01:29:40.609 --> 01:29:43.609 and four days off So going from that all my life 01:29:43.609 --> 01:29:45.609 and all like my kid's life in terms of school 01:29:45.609 --> 01:29:47.270 runs and all that, everything was built around 01:29:47.270 --> 01:29:50.550 that to go into a nine to five. That was the 01:29:50.550 --> 01:29:52.850 scariest thing in a weird way because it meant 01:29:52.850 --> 01:29:55.449 a massive sort of like a change in my life and 01:29:55.449 --> 01:29:59.649 the way that we do things around the house. So 01:29:59.649 --> 01:30:02.050 I thought I'd give it a go. And pretty much I'd 01:30:02.050 --> 01:30:05.960 say from day one, it was like. it was like a 01:30:05.960 --> 01:30:07.880 light bulb went off my head and i felt like a 01:30:07.880 --> 01:30:10.020 section of my brain that had been asleep for 01:30:10.020 --> 01:30:12.319 so long i was i was super and i because that's 01:30:12.319 --> 01:30:14.279 what i'm going back about being sort of of keen 01:30:14.279 --> 01:30:16.140 in my early years so i love being i love the 01:30:16.140 --> 01:30:17.779 job when i first got i wanted to learn everything 01:30:17.779 --> 01:30:19.699 i was up really really late and blah blah blah 01:30:19.699 --> 01:30:23.020 and i didn't consciously know that that went 01:30:23.020 --> 01:30:26.300 but then when i started this that sort of awoken 01:30:26.300 --> 01:30:27.819 again and then i realized god i was going through 01:30:27.819 --> 01:30:30.000 the motions a bit on the last sort of like a 01:30:30.000 --> 01:30:31.359 couple of years because i haven't sort of felt 01:30:31.359 --> 01:30:34.239 like this for years so The six months turned 01:30:34.239 --> 01:30:36.039 into then it got extended for three months, then 01:30:36.039 --> 01:30:37.760 another six months, and it just went on and on 01:30:37.760 --> 01:30:41.439 until it was advertised permanently. I was temporary 01:30:41.439 --> 01:30:44.659 probably for three years in short contracts that 01:30:44.659 --> 01:30:46.520 were nonstop, if you like, but technically it 01:30:46.520 --> 01:30:48.119 was a short, short term, short term, short term. 01:30:48.699 --> 01:30:50.819 It's only been the middle of last year that I 01:30:50.819 --> 01:30:54.380 was actually made permanent. Did you have any 01:30:54.380 --> 01:30:57.020 observations once you came off shift of your 01:30:57.020 --> 01:30:58.680 own health when you were in your own bed every 01:30:58.680 --> 01:31:01.979 night? A hundred percent. And again, I wasn't 01:31:01.979 --> 01:31:03.640 conscious of it until I came out of that environment, 01:31:03.760 --> 01:31:06.300 but I slept a lot better. I wasn't as grumpy. 01:31:07.479 --> 01:31:10.819 I wasn't as sort of generally fatigued. So not 01:31:10.819 --> 01:31:12.739 even sort of sleepy tired, but I felt like, you 01:31:12.739 --> 01:31:14.880 know, when you're a bit kind of like a groggy 01:31:14.880 --> 01:31:16.819 and I've found that got worse as I got older 01:31:16.819 --> 01:31:19.520 in terms of like the night shifts. So as I say, 01:31:19.520 --> 01:31:22.380 doing the two to four, when I was younger, I'd 01:31:22.380 --> 01:31:24.359 go in for the two nights, I might not sleep much. 01:31:24.380 --> 01:31:26.119 And so I'd have four, but it wouldn't matter. 01:31:26.180 --> 01:31:28.060 And I'd finish eight o 'clock in the morning. 01:31:28.699 --> 01:31:30.800 um and me four days off were all off i wouldn't 01:31:30.800 --> 01:31:32.380 go back to bed it was absolutely fine the older 01:31:32.380 --> 01:31:33.760 i got i might have to go to bed for a little 01:31:33.760 --> 01:31:35.600 bit my older i got i have to go a little bit 01:31:35.600 --> 01:31:38.220 more and it probably by the time i left i probably 01:31:38.220 --> 01:31:41.539 need the first two days that were off to kind 01:31:41.539 --> 01:31:43.359 of recover until i was sort of back to normal 01:31:43.359 --> 01:31:47.340 um but yeah a hundred percent i felt a million 01:31:47.340 --> 01:31:49.039 times better but again i didn't realize how bad 01:31:49.039 --> 01:31:53.119 i was until i was out of it um and you kind of 01:31:53.119 --> 01:31:55.600 when you actually and that's where i totally 01:31:55.600 --> 01:31:57.699 agree with where you're going and and like the 01:31:57.699 --> 01:32:00.779 mission that you're on because I just think I 01:32:00.779 --> 01:32:02.939 think it's killing people and it's even if it's 01:32:02.939 --> 01:32:04.760 not sort of killing people sort of directly it's 01:32:04.760 --> 01:32:07.760 affecting people's home life and their health 01:32:07.760 --> 01:32:10.220 in general so even if it's not sort of sending 01:32:10.220 --> 01:32:12.220 them to a grave for everyone although I believe 01:32:12.220 --> 01:32:15.399 it will do for some it 100 % affects it needs 01:32:15.399 --> 01:32:17.520 to be thought of it can't just be especially 01:32:17.520 --> 01:32:19.819 as now and again I presume in America when you 01:32:19.819 --> 01:32:21.220 do the 24 -hour shifts and things before eight 01:32:21.220 --> 01:32:23.720 hours or whatever Obviously you've got beds where 01:32:23.720 --> 01:32:25.920 we haven't got beds anymore. There's a couple 01:32:25.920 --> 01:32:27.680 of the brigades left, I think in the whole sort 01:32:27.680 --> 01:32:30.779 of country. So we do sort of night shifts with 01:32:30.779 --> 01:32:33.260 sleeping platforms, they call. So you can kind 01:32:33.260 --> 01:32:35.560 of bring in, you bring in unofficially camp beds 01:32:35.560 --> 01:32:37.420 and people sort of put sort of cushions together 01:32:37.420 --> 01:32:39.859 and put sort of chairs together for downtime 01:32:39.859 --> 01:32:42.840 is what they call it. Everyone knows what's happening, 01:32:42.939 --> 01:32:45.319 but officially there's no beds. So people just 01:32:45.319 --> 01:32:47.359 sort of play the game a little bit. And that 01:32:47.359 --> 01:32:48.720 is even worse because you're not even getting, 01:32:48.779 --> 01:32:51.619 not that you slept well anyway with beds, but. 01:32:51.869 --> 01:32:53.210 you're not even getting the proper sleep now 01:32:53.210 --> 01:32:56.489 because you're on a camp bed. See, it's funny 01:32:56.489 --> 01:32:59.590 with this push. You always got the people, oh, 01:32:59.649 --> 01:33:01.670 they're going to go back to 12s then, careful 01:33:01.670 --> 01:33:04.189 what you wish for and all this stuff. No, because 01:33:04.189 --> 01:33:07.810 the science shows that 12 hours to go from days 01:33:07.810 --> 01:33:10.329 to nights are awful because your circadian rhythm 01:33:10.329 --> 01:33:14.289 never is set. With the 24... Your day is day 01:33:14.289 --> 01:33:16.010 and night is still night. It just, you know, 01:33:16.010 --> 01:33:17.850 you probably are going to be up during the night. 01:33:17.890 --> 01:33:19.949 But then, as you said, now you've got these recovery 01:33:19.949 --> 01:33:22.770 days in between after every single shift. But 01:33:22.770 --> 01:33:24.630 I've just been talking to another department 01:33:24.630 --> 01:33:26.369 and the same thing. They took all the beds out 01:33:26.369 --> 01:33:30.750 and they're on 12s. And if they went to 24, they 01:33:30.750 --> 01:33:32.850 are an anomaly because they're a 42 hour work 01:33:32.850 --> 01:33:35.550 week. Everywhere else around them is 56. Who's 01:33:35.550 --> 01:33:38.829 doing a 24? 48. So if they went, if they just 01:33:38.829 --> 01:33:41.050 simply changed to 24 hour shifts, they would 01:33:41.050 --> 01:33:43.390 be able to send, you know, turn around the recruitment 01:33:43.390 --> 01:33:45.350 because they would be the only place that had 01:33:45.350 --> 01:33:48.090 this shorter shift now. But despite the fact 01:33:48.090 --> 01:33:50.649 that it's a shorter work week, people don't want 01:33:50.649 --> 01:33:53.510 to work those 12. So they'd rather do a longer 01:33:53.510 --> 01:33:55.949 work week where there's a 24 hour shift. And 01:33:55.949 --> 01:33:58.810 I think even operationally, so many of us have 01:33:58.810 --> 01:34:01.289 so many things to do as far as checkouts and 01:34:01.289 --> 01:34:03.369 training and workouts. And, you know, as you 01:34:03.369 --> 01:34:05.789 said, public education and testing hydrants. 01:34:06.380 --> 01:34:08.819 That, you know, there's so much that we're responsible 01:34:08.819 --> 01:34:12.399 for. You need a longer shift. And so that way, 01:34:12.439 --> 01:34:13.819 when you're done with your full day, then you 01:34:13.819 --> 01:34:16.460 can actually go to bed and then obviously you're 01:34:16.460 --> 01:34:18.899 going to wake up. But that this opposition to 01:34:18.899 --> 01:34:20.840 sleep, you know, people say, well, you know, 01:34:20.859 --> 01:34:22.800 you get paid to sleep. Yeah, but so do pilots, 01:34:22.880 --> 01:34:26.020 so do truck drivers, so do, you know, air stewardesses, 01:34:26.039 --> 01:34:29.770 so do... People on cruise ships, there's lots 01:34:29.770 --> 01:34:31.590 of people that get paid to sleep. Our military, 01:34:31.729 --> 01:34:33.710 you pissed off that we're not at war constantly? 01:34:33.949 --> 01:34:35.770 What do you think they're doing at night? They're 01:34:35.770 --> 01:34:39.829 sleeping. So this whole facade that we need to 01:34:39.829 --> 01:34:42.130 keep firefighters busy all the time and don't 01:34:42.130 --> 01:34:45.149 let them rest, it could not be more opposite 01:34:45.149 --> 01:34:48.270 from what actually needs to happen. So I don't 01:34:48.270 --> 01:34:51.470 know if there's a need for it, but I feel that 01:34:51.470 --> 01:34:54.109 if the British Fire Service really wanted to... 01:34:55.229 --> 01:34:58.609 you know make a massive positive change the 24 01:34:58.609 --> 01:35:01.390 72 not to mention if you do work in london for 01:35:01.390 --> 01:35:03.729 example that's only one day in four that you 01:35:03.729 --> 01:35:06.989 need to actually make that commute now yeah and 01:35:06.989 --> 01:35:09.670 and there's loads yeah because i always exactly 01:35:09.670 --> 01:35:12.430 i've had the same sort of conversations with 01:35:12.430 --> 01:35:14.949 people about sort of sleeping and it's kind of 01:35:14.949 --> 01:35:16.989 like a joke especially from your mates who aren't 01:35:16.989 --> 01:35:18.810 firefighters all you do all you do all day is 01:35:18.810 --> 01:35:21.909 sleep and one i have to stop saying no we don't 01:35:21.909 --> 01:35:23.630 but then i've stopped trying to argue it but 01:35:23.630 --> 01:35:25.710 what i do say so sometimes is okay then your 01:35:25.710 --> 01:35:27.409 house is on fire would you rather that i've had 01:35:27.409 --> 01:35:30.550 sleep or not have sleep so you would want me 01:35:30.550 --> 01:35:33.210 sort of rested surely even even if i even if 01:35:33.210 --> 01:35:35.409 i was sort of sleeping which i'm not that's only 01:35:35.409 --> 01:35:37.550 that's only going to be a good thing and what 01:35:37.550 --> 01:35:39.930 can you do at night anyway you might be able 01:35:39.930 --> 01:35:41.710 to go to the gym but you're not going to go out 01:35:41.710 --> 01:35:43.930 and test hydrants at two in the morning you're 01:35:43.930 --> 01:35:46.020 not going to fit a smoke alarm There isn't anyone 01:35:46.020 --> 01:35:47.619 who's going to want to knock on the door from 01:35:47.619 --> 01:35:48.920 the fire service at two in the morning to fit 01:35:48.920 --> 01:35:53.319 a smoke alarm. And then they say about the ambulance 01:35:53.319 --> 01:35:55.359 or whatever, for example, you don't get to sleep. 01:35:56.359 --> 01:35:59.079 But that's a bad thing. we shouldn't all do a 01:35:59.079 --> 01:36:01.960 bad shift just because somebody does we should 01:36:01.960 --> 01:36:03.739 all be aligning all on the same page i totally 01:36:03.739 --> 01:36:05.520 agree i'm not you know ambulance drivers are 01:36:05.520 --> 01:36:07.840 horrifically they're even worse in a way because 01:36:07.840 --> 01:36:10.079 it's non -stop and they're always sort of working 01:36:10.079 --> 01:36:12.300 they don't get any downtime but that's not doesn't 01:36:12.300 --> 01:36:14.619 mean we should all match those shifts we we should 01:36:14.619 --> 01:36:19.039 be helping them as well so it drives me you know 01:36:20.180 --> 01:36:23.319 We had a dabble, probably not us as a service, 01:36:23.460 --> 01:36:25.939 but there was what we had called LARS sort of 01:36:25.939 --> 01:36:28.760 systems, which was similar to low activity stations, 01:36:29.220 --> 01:36:35.079 sort of tried 24 and 48 hour shifts. There was 01:36:35.079 --> 01:36:38.199 not a bad word about it. The bad side came about 01:36:38.199 --> 01:36:40.659 like the things like sort of leave and like the 01:36:40.659 --> 01:36:43.029 admin of it. For me, all that is superficial 01:36:43.029 --> 01:36:44.729 stuff that would sort of, because it's a big 01:36:44.729 --> 01:36:46.590 change, obviously everyone goes, oh my God, it's 01:36:46.590 --> 01:36:48.489 a change. But then after sort of six months, 01:36:48.529 --> 01:36:51.869 it would become the norm anyway. But yeah, I 01:36:51.869 --> 01:36:54.550 don't get the reluctance to even sort of try 01:36:54.550 --> 01:36:57.189 something for a few months because it's going 01:36:57.189 --> 01:36:59.590 to help everything financially for the service. 01:37:00.050 --> 01:37:04.449 Say if you did the 24, so we have a lot of detachment. 01:37:04.489 --> 01:37:06.310 So if someone is short, then you might get sort 01:37:06.310 --> 01:37:08.109 of sent to another station if your watch is up 01:37:08.109 --> 01:37:11.390 one day, for example. So if you do at the moment, 01:37:11.550 --> 01:37:14.109 so on a four day of a shift pattern of two days 01:37:14.109 --> 01:37:16.250 and two nights, you might have to send somebody 01:37:16.250 --> 01:37:18.029 there and they come back. You send another person 01:37:18.029 --> 01:37:19.750 the next day and they come back. If you did it, 01:37:19.770 --> 01:37:22.010 so you have to pay for like sort of travel there 01:37:22.010 --> 01:37:24.289 and overtime there and travel there and back 01:37:24.289 --> 01:37:27.069 and overtime for there and back. If you did 24 01:37:27.069 --> 01:37:29.609 hours, that would only be twice there and then 01:37:29.609 --> 01:37:32.329 back. At the moment, over a 24 hour period, you 01:37:32.329 --> 01:37:33.989 could be doing it sort of two or four times. 01:37:34.510 --> 01:37:36.789 So there's loads of benefits that I think are 01:37:36.789 --> 01:37:39.539 short sighted from services. It might not work 01:37:39.539 --> 01:37:41.439 everywhere, but it might do. And the benefits 01:37:41.439 --> 01:37:44.659 of it working massively outweigh sort of what's 01:37:44.659 --> 01:37:46.520 happening now. And the knock -on could be incredible. 01:37:46.699 --> 01:37:49.020 So you should be really sort of proud of what 01:37:49.020 --> 01:37:51.199 you're doing. I think it could be game -changing. 01:37:51.659 --> 01:37:53.779 I mean, there's definitely a revolution happening 01:37:53.779 --> 01:37:55.539 here. And there are people that have gone on 01:37:55.539 --> 01:37:57.760 12s that have gone on 24 in a couple of places 01:37:57.760 --> 01:37:59.520 in the country, and then the rest have gone to 01:37:59.520 --> 01:38:03.779 the shorter work week, 24 -48. They were working 01:38:03.779 --> 01:38:07.979 and now 24 -72. Where the conundrum is with police, 01:38:08.000 --> 01:38:11.739 with, you know, dispatch, with, you know, ER 01:38:11.739 --> 01:38:14.199 doctors and nurses, ambulance, like you said, 01:38:14.260 --> 01:38:17.060 is, you know, again, it's rest and recovery. 01:38:17.279 --> 01:38:19.760 So if you look at what's happened in the corporate 01:38:19.760 --> 01:38:22.399 space in the UK, they did, I'm sure you saw the 01:38:22.399 --> 01:38:25.539 news. There was a big, big. tests where a load 01:38:25.539 --> 01:38:28.020 of big progressive corporations tried a four 01:38:28.020 --> 01:38:30.279 -day work week four -day civilian work week so 01:38:30.279 --> 01:38:33.220 they worked monday to friday nine to five i'm 01:38:33.220 --> 01:38:35.100 sorry monday to thursday nine to five and then 01:38:35.100 --> 01:38:37.420 they had you know sat friday saturday sunday 01:38:37.420 --> 01:38:40.399 off they had the same level if not higher productivity 01:38:40.399 --> 01:38:44.329 efficiency and much higher innovation because 01:38:44.329 --> 01:38:45.670 people are like, all right, well, I got to get 01:38:45.670 --> 01:38:48.090 this work done in four days now. How do I streamline 01:38:48.090 --> 01:38:50.989 this? And yet they had a happier, healthier workforce 01:38:50.989 --> 01:38:53.210 using less sick days because they had this three 01:38:53.210 --> 01:38:56.029 -day weekend. So for our, you know, professions 01:38:56.029 --> 01:38:58.789 where it has to be 12s, you know, ER, physicians, 01:38:59.130 --> 01:39:02.090 et cetera, then why are we not having the conversation 01:39:02.090 --> 01:39:04.250 of giving them more rest and recovery, not the 01:39:04.250 --> 01:39:07.399 24 -hour shift for them? because it is a different 01:39:07.399 --> 01:39:11.300 dynamic, but why are they working 40, 45 -hour 01:39:11.300 --> 01:39:15.819 weeks? If Google can work 32 hours, why can't 01:39:15.819 --> 01:39:18.500 the person driving the ambulance and the medic 01:39:18.500 --> 01:39:21.079 in the back be working a shorter work week because 01:39:21.079 --> 01:39:23.340 we're asking them to stay up throughout the night? 01:39:23.940 --> 01:39:25.960 So I think there's an opportunity to look at 01:39:25.960 --> 01:39:28.539 the 12 hour work weeks of the people that you 01:39:28.539 --> 01:39:31.760 just physically cannot make do 24 hours and go, 01:39:31.800 --> 01:39:33.560 OK, well, then how can we give more rest and 01:39:33.560 --> 01:39:35.520 recovery and up the staffing for those professions? 01:39:35.640 --> 01:39:38.479 So, as you said, when they respond to your three 01:39:38.479 --> 01:39:41.600 year old who's, you know, in anaphylaxis, that 01:39:41.600 --> 01:39:43.260 that paramedic is going to be able to get the 01:39:43.260 --> 01:39:45.199 drug doses right and save your child's life. 01:39:46.620 --> 01:39:49.220 Yeah, definitely. And I think there's enough 01:39:49.220 --> 01:39:51.760 evidence, not only academic evidence, but academics 01:39:51.760 --> 01:39:54.140 of other organisations and whether it be in the 01:39:54.140 --> 01:39:56.699 fire service or out, where it has been trialled 01:39:56.699 --> 01:39:59.060 and it is working. So why don't we learn from 01:39:59.060 --> 01:40:02.319 it? There seems to be such a slow, it's like 01:40:02.319 --> 01:40:04.420 sort of swimming in Marmite, especially in the 01:40:04.420 --> 01:40:06.579 fire service. They're just sort of so reluctant 01:40:06.579 --> 01:40:09.430 to kind of make a change. I always just sort 01:40:09.430 --> 01:40:11.069 of say it where I am now because one of the first 01:40:11.069 --> 01:40:12.770 things I did, because I was kind of new to like 01:40:12.770 --> 01:40:15.289 a middle management kind of role, I'd analyze 01:40:15.289 --> 01:40:17.449 everything in terms of like I take a policy or 01:40:17.449 --> 01:40:20.989 procedure that I'm sort of like directly responsible 01:40:20.989 --> 01:40:23.449 for. And I'd ask, well, why are we doing that? 01:40:23.949 --> 01:40:26.069 And if there's a reason for it, then great. And 01:40:26.069 --> 01:40:28.819 can we improve it or whatever? But a lot of the 01:40:28.819 --> 01:40:30.680 time, the answer was, I'm not really sure. It's 01:40:30.680 --> 01:40:32.279 just we've always done it. And to me, that isn't 01:40:32.279 --> 01:40:33.840 an answer. And that's the same with everything. 01:40:34.039 --> 01:40:35.739 If nobody knows why we're doing something, it 01:40:35.739 --> 01:40:37.239 needs to be kind of looked at. You don't just 01:40:37.239 --> 01:40:38.939 have to stick at doing something. Otherwise, 01:40:39.100 --> 01:40:40.800 we'll still be sort of going to fires and horses 01:40:40.800 --> 01:40:43.479 and shit like that. There's a reason why things 01:40:43.479 --> 01:40:47.840 change. So everything, and there's, although 01:40:47.840 --> 01:40:50.470 the upheaval for certain sort of like a... shifts 01:40:50.470 --> 01:40:52.510 but can be but like i say i think we should learn 01:40:52.510 --> 01:40:54.829 from other places and give it a go if the worst 01:40:54.829 --> 01:40:57.689 happens and whatever happens there's 100 house 01:40:57.689 --> 01:40:59.229 fires everyone sort of burns to death there's 01:40:59.229 --> 01:41:01.170 20 heart attacks or we're not getting to kind 01:41:01.170 --> 01:41:03.369 of jobs guess what you can you can always go 01:41:03.369 --> 01:41:05.609 back i know it'd be a pain but there is that 01:41:05.609 --> 01:41:09.109 is always an option so i don't know why if everything 01:41:09.109 --> 01:41:11.090 it just seems like it's sort of stuck in two 01:41:11.090 --> 01:41:13.510 worlds i think and again i can only really speak 01:41:13.510 --> 01:41:14.869 of the fire service because i know more about 01:41:14.869 --> 01:41:17.979 that than than like the other services but It 01:41:17.979 --> 01:41:20.420 seems like we're stuck, we've moved away from 01:41:20.420 --> 01:41:24.260 the heavily sort of like a traditional, and there 01:41:24.260 --> 01:41:27.539 was a big sort of link from the military, and 01:41:27.539 --> 01:41:30.500 it was quite sort of rigid with the boot polish 01:41:30.500 --> 01:41:32.439 and things like that, and everything was inspected 01:41:32.439 --> 01:41:34.579 with a finger and a white glove when the gaff 01:41:34.579 --> 01:41:36.039 used to come around on the truck and all that. 01:41:36.260 --> 01:41:38.619 We've moved away from that, but now we're in 01:41:38.619 --> 01:41:40.720 a bit of limbo where we're not 100 % in the modern 01:41:40.720 --> 01:41:42.720 world either, and we're kind of clinging on to 01:41:42.720 --> 01:41:45.560 this. We've got to learn, we've got to progress 01:41:45.560 --> 01:41:48.659 in every sort of section of it. And it kind of 01:41:48.659 --> 01:41:50.899 needs to be someone's sort of job to go through 01:41:50.899 --> 01:41:53.239 it. Maybe even like an external person who's 01:41:53.239 --> 01:41:55.119 not sort of precious about the fire service and 01:41:55.119 --> 01:41:56.720 not sort of precious about anything else and 01:41:56.720 --> 01:41:59.220 can say, well, what is the best for that organization? 01:42:00.020 --> 01:42:02.159 And if that's the case, then why aren't we doing 01:42:02.159 --> 01:42:03.920 it? Where at the moment, there just seems to 01:42:03.920 --> 01:42:06.380 be a lot of people holding onto things for no 01:42:06.380 --> 01:42:09.619 real reason. Yeah. I mean, I've used this analogy 01:42:09.619 --> 01:42:12.380 many times, but the American fire helmet is the 01:42:12.380 --> 01:42:15.119 perfect. analogy for that. You can see over my 01:42:15.119 --> 01:42:17.920 shoulder there is a schematics and the American 01:42:17.920 --> 01:42:22.479 fire helmets on there is 1937. And yet people 01:42:22.479 --> 01:42:24.260 still think that that's what makes them a good 01:42:24.260 --> 01:42:26.039 firefighter. No, it's not. It's actually an awful 01:42:26.039 --> 01:42:28.760 piece of equipment. And as we've said many times, 01:42:28.960 --> 01:42:32.159 the Navy SEALs don't wear tin hats. They have 01:42:32.159 --> 01:42:34.859 the latest, greatest gear. And the American fire 01:42:34.859 --> 01:42:37.819 service will ridicule the British fire helmet. 01:42:37.979 --> 01:42:41.239 Oh, it's a space helmet, whatever. it's better 01:42:41.239 --> 01:42:44.079 like i wore the east coast helmet most of my 01:42:44.079 --> 01:42:45.880 career the west coast helmet which is smaller 01:42:45.880 --> 01:42:47.739 when i went back to the east i kept banging my 01:42:47.739 --> 01:42:49.260 head on everything because the smaller helmet 01:42:49.260 --> 01:42:51.439 i was used to but yeah the moment we have an 01:42:51.439 --> 01:42:53.920 extrication the hack the helmet comes off put 01:42:53.920 --> 01:42:56.720 it on top of the the car you know just bailout 01:42:56.720 --> 01:42:59.399 videos where the guys doing the the ladder bailout 01:42:59.399 --> 01:43:01.600 and the helmet comes off first so obviously if 01:43:01.600 --> 01:43:03.500 they let go of the helm the the ladder they're 01:43:03.500 --> 01:43:07.039 gonna you know basically land on their head um 01:43:07.039 --> 01:43:10.310 but it's this kind of narcissistic arrogance 01:43:10.310 --> 01:43:13.229 that that's what makes you a firefighter because 01:43:13.229 --> 01:43:16.270 it's how you look versus like you said letting 01:43:16.270 --> 01:43:18.670 go of that being proud of that being one of the 01:43:18.670 --> 01:43:20.890 rungs in the ladder of the fire service history 01:43:20.890 --> 01:43:23.970 but leaning into what is the latest greatest 01:43:23.970 --> 01:43:26.529 because that's what We're there to do, to save 01:43:26.529 --> 01:43:28.770 other people. So I want the latest helmet with 01:43:28.770 --> 01:43:32.329 the torch built in and the comms in my ear and 01:43:32.329 --> 01:43:35.010 the ergonomic elements so I'm not getting hung 01:43:35.010 --> 01:43:36.770 up on all kinds of shit if I'm climbing through 01:43:36.770 --> 01:43:39.210 a collapse. I mean, it makes perfect sense. And 01:43:39.210 --> 01:43:41.409 it's the same with this work week. We pick and 01:43:41.409 --> 01:43:44.550 choose the innovations that we want. So rather 01:43:44.550 --> 01:43:47.109 than going, all right, everyone in every area, 01:43:47.289 --> 01:43:49.470 what are the best things? And when it comes to 01:43:49.470 --> 01:43:51.109 the work week and sleep and that kind of thing. 01:43:51.609 --> 01:43:53.750 This is glaringly the obvious thing. You don't 01:43:53.750 --> 01:43:55.670 even need research. It's a shorter work week, 01:43:55.729 --> 01:43:58.289 more recovery, more time at home. It's going 01:43:58.289 --> 01:44:01.590 to equate to higher levels of performance, more 01:44:01.590 --> 01:44:04.810 intact relationships and longevity in their health. 01:44:04.970 --> 01:44:08.210 So the resistance is coming really. Like when 01:44:08.210 --> 01:44:09.590 you're saying with the fitness standards and 01:44:09.590 --> 01:44:12.229 people opposing it, I see the resistance coming 01:44:12.229 --> 01:44:14.090 from people that don't want to do their job as 01:44:14.090 --> 01:44:19.399 a leader. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And the problem is 01:44:19.399 --> 01:44:22.300 I don't know what the answer is. And it tends 01:44:22.300 --> 01:44:25.779 to be there's a lot of people who have enjoyed 01:44:25.779 --> 01:44:27.659 the best bits of the job over the years and they've 01:44:27.659 --> 01:44:29.899 got sort of like promoted and they're the ones 01:44:29.899 --> 01:44:33.119 who are either reluctant to change or are making 01:44:33.119 --> 01:44:34.920 changes that are better for the organisation 01:44:34.920 --> 01:44:37.279 in terms of stats and figures and all that. And 01:44:37.279 --> 01:44:38.560 you think you wouldn't have said that 10 years 01:44:38.560 --> 01:44:40.199 ago when you were on sort of station either. 01:44:40.319 --> 01:44:42.220 So there tends to be a lot of things. The only 01:44:42.220 --> 01:44:44.899 thing I'd say about the helmets, I like the old 01:44:44.899 --> 01:44:47.220 ones because... of when it rained because the 01:44:47.220 --> 01:44:49.100 rain would sort of scoop off. We're now on the 01:44:49.100 --> 01:44:50.619 helmets we've got now, which are tight. It goes 01:44:50.619 --> 01:44:52.800 right down your neck. But that's the only thing 01:44:52.800 --> 01:44:56.300 I'd like to keep from the old helmets. All right. 01:44:56.340 --> 01:44:57.760 And that's what I said to the Americans. We don't 01:44:57.760 --> 01:45:00.579 have to have the European helmet. Make one even 01:45:00.579 --> 01:45:03.270 better. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? 01:45:03.489 --> 01:45:06.149 Listen to the Americans. Listen to the Spanish 01:45:06.149 --> 01:45:07.989 and the French and everyone else. All right, 01:45:08.069 --> 01:45:09.750 what don't you like about your hair? Well, the 01:45:09.750 --> 01:45:11.909 rain. All right, well, then invent something 01:45:11.909 --> 01:45:14.890 even better. You go to these trade shows, and 01:45:14.890 --> 01:45:18.310 it's the same helmet. You're in a trade show. 01:45:18.369 --> 01:45:20.789 Aren't you supposed to bring innovation? This 01:45:20.789 --> 01:45:24.729 isn't a fucking museum. Yeah, exactly. I don't 01:45:24.729 --> 01:45:28.010 get it. Anyway, moving on. All right, well, then 01:45:28.010 --> 01:45:33.350 talk to me about fitness at the front line. So 01:45:33.350 --> 01:45:36.090 yes, it's taken a few forms over the years. So 01:45:36.090 --> 01:45:39.069 I started it when I was on the trucks and it 01:45:39.069 --> 01:45:42.369 was just online coaching basically. And because 01:45:42.369 --> 01:45:45.229 obviously because of the shift work, the shift 01:45:45.229 --> 01:45:47.270 pattern, I had a lot of work to work on it and 01:45:47.270 --> 01:45:48.850 I've worked with clients. People come to me, 01:45:48.890 --> 01:45:50.590 say, I want to join the fire service or I'm in 01:45:50.590 --> 01:45:52.189 the fire service. I want to improve my fitness. 01:45:53.430 --> 01:45:55.449 How it's kind of morphed over the years, especially 01:45:55.449 --> 01:45:57.829 now I'm in this role because I'm busier now in 01:45:57.829 --> 01:45:59.489 terms of like it's a nine to five and longer 01:45:59.489 --> 01:46:02.850 hours. I've kind of moved away from, like the 01:46:02.850 --> 01:46:05.029 day -to -day of online sort of coaching. And 01:46:05.029 --> 01:46:07.710 I've got, again, it's not arrogance, but I've 01:46:07.710 --> 01:46:10.329 got like a bigger view of it now. So I kind of 01:46:10.329 --> 01:46:12.489 want to build something a bit more sort of tangible 01:46:12.489 --> 01:46:16.310 and substantive. So I'm trying to go down, I'm 01:46:16.310 --> 01:46:18.250 going down more of like, not necessarily like 01:46:18.250 --> 01:46:20.729 the academic route, but because I'm a bit of 01:46:20.729 --> 01:46:23.810 a, I'm like a policy nerd and like a research 01:46:23.810 --> 01:46:26.569 nerd without having the background in terms of 01:46:26.569 --> 01:46:28.750 having a PhD and a hundred degrees and all that. 01:46:28.789 --> 01:46:32.329 So I'm still sort of learning. but i try and 01:46:32.329 --> 01:46:36.050 it's trying spreading the word of tactical fitness 01:46:36.050 --> 01:46:38.350 to people who wouldn't normally do it so for 01:46:38.350 --> 01:46:40.270 example i've done a couple of i've been a guest 01:46:40.270 --> 01:46:42.189 sort of lecturer a few sort of unis over here 01:46:42.189 --> 01:46:46.170 on sports science courses so basically to advertise 01:46:46.170 --> 01:46:48.590 that there are there's other ways to utilize 01:46:48.590 --> 01:46:50.670 sort of strength and conditioning in sports science 01:46:50.670 --> 01:46:52.729 other than just sort of joining a sports team 01:46:52.729 --> 01:46:55.329 or joining the nhs or whatever and how important 01:46:55.329 --> 01:46:57.689 because over here the term sort of tactical sort 01:46:57.689 --> 01:47:00.350 of for fitness isn't as well kind of known as 01:47:00.350 --> 01:47:03.329 it is in the states um so it's something i'm 01:47:03.329 --> 01:47:05.149 trying to grow over here it's something i want 01:47:05.149 --> 01:47:07.890 to get more involved in As I say, academically, 01:47:08.289 --> 01:47:10.770 I'm involved in a few research projects, always 01:47:10.770 --> 01:47:14.390 as a support. I'm not high up enough in terms 01:47:14.390 --> 01:47:17.310 of running the research yet, but that's my plan. 01:47:17.409 --> 01:47:19.369 I'd like to do papers on different areas and 01:47:19.369 --> 01:47:22.430 whether it's reducing injuries and helping out 01:47:22.430 --> 01:47:27.590 firefighters in general. It's morphed into doing 01:47:27.590 --> 01:47:29.810 talks and presentations and seminars and that 01:47:29.810 --> 01:47:32.850 for people who want to know more and how it can... 01:47:33.119 --> 01:47:35.220 sort of reach into everyday life a lot more than 01:47:35.220 --> 01:47:37.420 kind of what it is so it's something i'm quite 01:47:37.420 --> 01:47:39.840 kind of passionate about where it's going i'm 01:47:39.840 --> 01:47:41.500 not really sure to be honest so i'm not really 01:47:41.500 --> 01:47:44.140 here to plug anything if i'm honest um i just 01:47:44.140 --> 01:47:46.680 want to sort of speak to as many people as possible 01:47:46.680 --> 01:47:49.100 and learn from as many people as as possible 01:47:49.100 --> 01:47:51.739 and see if if i can sort of help develop or develop 01:47:51.739 --> 01:47:55.300 something and work with people to kind of push 01:47:55.300 --> 01:47:57.239 the industry a little bit sort of forward and 01:47:57.239 --> 01:47:58.859 there's a little sort of group of us so i'm part 01:47:58.859 --> 01:48:02.399 of also other than national fire fit steering 01:48:02.399 --> 01:48:06.000 group it's called so there's like a it's not 01:48:06.000 --> 01:48:08.239 really a governing body but there's a big sort 01:48:08.239 --> 01:48:11.680 of of guidance sort of body called the NFCC over 01:48:11.680 --> 01:48:13.479 here which sort of oversees and gives sort of 01:48:13.479 --> 01:48:17.500 guidance on everything it's kind of a to do with 01:48:17.500 --> 01:48:20.199 the fire service and a sub group off that is 01:48:20.199 --> 01:48:21.960 this sort of fire fit group so it's the equivalent 01:48:21.960 --> 01:48:24.239 of me so I'm the fitness advisor for Staffordshire 01:48:24.239 --> 01:48:26.859 so all the fitness advisors from all the countries 01:48:26.859 --> 01:48:29.960 as academics in the group sort of lecturers as 01:48:30.560 --> 01:48:34.260 operational people and we sort of plan of what 01:48:34.260 --> 01:48:37.779 um how the future of fitness right down to fitness 01:48:37.779 --> 01:48:39.979 tests and standards is going to sort of look 01:48:39.979 --> 01:48:42.199 like over the next sort of few years and there's 01:48:42.199 --> 01:48:44.380 a group of us within that who are really keen 01:48:44.380 --> 01:48:46.939 to kind of do that and progress it and it's just 01:48:46.939 --> 01:48:49.600 it's just an interesting way of trying to push 01:48:49.600 --> 01:48:51.960 things from the inside and seeing sort of where 01:48:51.960 --> 01:48:53.800 it leads because i think it's always kind of 01:48:53.800 --> 01:48:56.060 growing there's always research sort of coming 01:48:56.060 --> 01:48:59.340 out but i think in the uk especially we're quite 01:48:59.340 --> 01:49:02.739 behind um so yeah so it's just being a part of 01:49:02.739 --> 01:49:04.800 that really and trying to do trying to do what 01:49:04.800 --> 01:49:07.399 i can try and work with as many people as possible 01:49:07.399 --> 01:49:10.939 beautiful well i want to throw some closing questions 01:49:10.939 --> 01:49:14.060 at you before i let you go that's okay yes yeah 01:49:14.060 --> 01:49:16.340 all right first of all i'd love to ask is there 01:49:16.340 --> 01:49:18.939 a book or are there books that you love to recommend 01:49:18.939 --> 01:49:21.520 it can be related to our conversation today or 01:49:21.520 --> 01:49:25.880 completely unrelated oh good question i should 01:49:25.880 --> 01:49:29.789 have prepped There's a couple of non, probably 01:49:29.789 --> 01:49:32.970 normal books, but quite inspiring books. One 01:49:32.970 --> 01:49:35.869 of them is random, is Arnold Schwarzenegger's 01:49:35.869 --> 01:49:38.590 Autobiography. I know it sounds ridiculous, but 01:49:38.590 --> 01:49:42.510 one of his kind of stories is crazy, sort of 01:49:42.510 --> 01:49:45.090 where he's come from and what he's done. And 01:49:45.090 --> 01:49:47.630 it's not going down his political sort of roots 01:49:47.630 --> 01:49:49.750 or anything like that, but it's kind of like 01:49:49.750 --> 01:49:52.489 about his sort of work ethic is super, super 01:49:52.489 --> 01:49:55.640 inspiring, really. And going down the same route 01:49:55.640 --> 01:50:00.140 of sort of David Goggins. I love his stuff. I 01:50:00.140 --> 01:50:04.039 mean, he's absolutely batshit, but he's so inspirational. 01:50:05.260 --> 01:50:08.859 We can't and shouldn't do what he does. It's 01:50:08.859 --> 01:50:10.460 not necessarily, I don't think it's particularly 01:50:10.460 --> 01:50:13.340 healthy what he does. However, his sort of mindset 01:50:13.340 --> 01:50:18.039 is kind of super inspiring. read a book of his 01:50:18.039 --> 01:50:20.600 you're like right game on I need to kind of you 01:50:20.600 --> 01:50:26.399 know it kind of spurs you on in terms of yeah 01:50:26.399 --> 01:50:27.899 I should have prepped this really but I read 01:50:27.899 --> 01:50:31.140 a lot so I listen to a lot of books but I'm also 01:50:31.140 --> 01:50:34.819 a big fan of podcasts so there's a few people 01:50:34.819 --> 01:50:37.100 I listen to but it's more I think the biggest 01:50:37.100 --> 01:50:41.510 sort of secret is taking views from people from 01:50:41.510 --> 01:50:43.970 different fields so like my main job is health 01:50:43.970 --> 01:50:46.550 and fitness and strength and conditioning and 01:50:46.550 --> 01:50:49.149 i do sort of listen and watch a lot of stuff 01:50:49.149 --> 01:50:53.520 however it can be a sports sports sort of podcast 01:50:53.520 --> 01:50:55.659 a book it could be like an entertainer it could 01:50:55.659 --> 01:50:58.899 be you know someone like a joe rogan for example 01:50:58.899 --> 01:51:01.680 on his sort of podcast a lot the weird and wonderful 01:51:01.680 --> 01:51:03.319 it doesn't always mean that you agree with everything 01:51:03.319 --> 01:51:05.960 that's on there and your podcast is a good example 01:51:05.960 --> 01:51:09.220 without sort of blowing smoke but it's the the 01:51:09.220 --> 01:51:11.760 most interesting conversations sort of sometimes 01:51:11.760 --> 01:51:15.300 i think start with people you don't expect so 01:51:15.300 --> 01:51:17.399 i think it's just being as wide as possible with 01:51:17.399 --> 01:51:19.920 and taking in as much possible that doesn't really 01:51:19.920 --> 01:51:21.779 answer the question And I'll probably, as soon 01:51:21.779 --> 01:51:23.899 as we hang up, I'll probably think of 10 books 01:51:23.899 --> 01:51:26.800 that I've read that I'd hand over. But that's 01:51:26.800 --> 01:51:28.539 the best I can do at the moment. Apologies. No, 01:51:28.539 --> 01:51:30.319 no, it's great. Thank you. I appreciate that. 01:51:30.460 --> 01:51:33.340 All right. What about films, documentary, television? 01:51:35.739 --> 01:51:39.279 Oh, another good one. Films, I think, is a range. 01:51:39.500 --> 01:51:42.100 I think there's the cool films that everyone 01:51:42.100 --> 01:51:45.420 says. But I don't think there's anything wrong 01:51:45.420 --> 01:51:46.979 with a Rocky. I don't think there's anything 01:51:46.979 --> 01:51:49.380 wrong with sort of turning your brain off. I 01:51:49.380 --> 01:51:51.140 don't really want to be educated when I watch 01:51:51.140 --> 01:51:52.279 a film. Do you know what I mean? I want to be 01:51:52.279 --> 01:51:54.460 entertained. And I think a lot of people get 01:51:54.460 --> 01:51:57.680 a bit sort of snoopy about films. But I like 01:51:57.680 --> 01:52:02.659 anything with most sort of comedies and biopics 01:52:02.659 --> 01:52:08.439 as well. I watch a lot of them. TV. It's weird 01:52:08.439 --> 01:52:10.180 with TV. I watch a lot of TV, but I can't say. 01:52:10.930 --> 01:52:13.010 anything i particularly like my favorite of all 01:52:13.010 --> 01:52:16.970 time randomly is west wing i love that um and 01:52:16.970 --> 01:52:19.210 i've watched a lot of the series a few times 01:52:19.210 --> 01:52:21.869 but then i do like i do like the british comedies 01:52:21.869 --> 01:52:23.489 i'm a big fan of ricky gervais and things like 01:52:23.489 --> 01:52:25.489 that so probably sort of stand -up comedy is 01:52:25.489 --> 01:52:28.510 what i watch a lot of um and and i think he's 01:52:28.510 --> 01:52:30.850 done i like his outlook on life and as we're 01:52:30.850 --> 01:52:32.729 sort of talking about what you can and can't 01:52:32.729 --> 01:52:35.779 sort of joke about i like the way that he presents 01:52:35.779 --> 01:52:37.859 it, how he explains that we should be able to 01:52:37.859 --> 01:52:39.819 joke about anything really in the right sort 01:52:39.819 --> 01:52:42.060 of environment, obviously not on CBBs, but on, 01:52:42.119 --> 01:52:47.640 you know, so yeah. So a lot of comedy. I'll watch 01:52:47.640 --> 01:52:52.039 most things really. I love that show he did where 01:52:52.039 --> 01:52:54.739 he'd lost his partner. I forget what it was called 01:52:54.739 --> 01:52:56.739 now, but it was about, about death and grieving 01:52:56.739 --> 01:53:00.579 basically. Oh, afterlife. Yeah. So good. Yeah. 01:53:01.039 --> 01:53:04.210 Yeah. Yeah. Really good. And I think it's things 01:53:04.210 --> 01:53:05.689 like that. You watch it and on the face of it, 01:53:05.710 --> 01:53:08.149 you think it's a comedy, but it's so sort of 01:53:08.149 --> 01:53:10.789 deep and meaningful. And, you know, I always 01:53:10.789 --> 01:53:12.609 call it, it's the same as sort of Derek as well. 01:53:12.670 --> 01:53:15.529 Have you watched that? I think I started watching 01:53:15.529 --> 01:53:17.569 that, but I don't think I made it through, but 01:53:17.569 --> 01:53:19.970 that might've been when I was on shift. And when 01:53:19.970 --> 01:53:21.970 I was on shift, I would fall asleep in the first 01:53:21.970 --> 01:53:26.010 10 minutes of a lot of time. But it takes, it's 01:53:26.010 --> 01:53:28.489 not as, as, as watchable as that. Cause it. you've 01:53:28.489 --> 01:53:30.210 got to get past the comedy. It's really funny, 01:53:30.329 --> 01:53:32.670 but there's some really deep and meaningful things 01:53:32.670 --> 01:53:34.550 in it. And it's a bit like the afterlife. It's 01:53:34.550 --> 01:53:36.750 hilarious at some point. It's kind of like perfect 01:53:36.750 --> 01:53:40.029 TV, but then the next time you're on the verge 01:53:40.029 --> 01:53:43.149 of crying and things like that. So I love things 01:53:43.149 --> 01:53:45.149 that sort of play with me. I love things where 01:53:45.149 --> 01:53:47.529 I don't know where it's going as well. So sort 01:53:47.529 --> 01:53:49.689 of films that you're watching, you're thinking, 01:53:49.689 --> 01:53:52.390 I have no idea how this is going to end. So like 01:53:52.390 --> 01:53:55.210 sort of No Country for Old Men, that's a few 01:53:55.210 --> 01:53:57.489 years old now. But it just kind of ends at the 01:53:57.489 --> 01:53:58.770 end and things like that. And although at the 01:53:58.770 --> 01:54:00.329 time you're like, that's not an ending, but I 01:54:00.329 --> 01:54:02.090 kind of like that when it's not a cheesy sort 01:54:02.090 --> 01:54:05.329 of everyone lives happily ever after. Absolutely. 01:54:05.750 --> 01:54:07.390 All right. Well, the next question, is there 01:54:07.390 --> 01:54:09.609 a person that you recommend to come on this podcast 01:54:09.609 --> 01:54:12.609 as a guest to speak to the first responders, 01:54:12.689 --> 01:54:14.989 military and associated professions of the world? 01:54:16.390 --> 01:54:19.550 Well, good question. I think there's a few. I'm 01:54:19.550 --> 01:54:21.170 trying to think there's a couple that I would 01:54:21.170 --> 01:54:23.210 recommend because I find them interesting and 01:54:23.210 --> 01:54:26.960 they're both from the academic field. One was 01:54:26.960 --> 01:54:30.439 a fitness advisor for fire service, but now he's 01:54:30.439 --> 01:54:34.140 in the University of Bath. His name is Rich Stevenson. 01:54:35.060 --> 01:54:37.840 And he's a top bloke. And like I say, he's worked 01:54:37.840 --> 01:54:39.359 in the fire service, but now he's an academic. 01:54:39.399 --> 01:54:42.920 And he was the person who kind of worked on the 01:54:42.920 --> 01:54:44.600 research project that built the fitness test 01:54:44.600 --> 01:54:47.279 over here. So he'd be a great person to speak 01:54:47.279 --> 01:54:49.420 to. He's done a lot of work with a bloke called 01:54:49.420 --> 01:54:53.100 James Bilson as well. and he works with him at 01:54:53.100 --> 01:54:56.180 Bath Uni and he's currently doing massive sort 01:54:56.180 --> 01:54:59.760 of projects with the military and reducing MSK 01:54:59.760 --> 01:55:02.319 injuries and things like that and a couple of 01:55:02.319 --> 01:55:05.479 little sort of shout outs there's two people 01:55:05.479 --> 01:55:08.500 I know quite well one's called Warren Hart so 01:55:08.500 --> 01:55:12.399 he's the exercise physiologist at North Yorkshire 01:55:12.399 --> 01:55:16.840 and Liam Knoll and they're both doing so Liam 01:55:16.840 --> 01:55:20.000 Knoll, for example, he's just devised as part 01:55:20.000 --> 01:55:25.060 of his PhD a return to work process and it's 01:55:25.060 --> 01:55:28.039 going to be rolled out nationally. And Warren 01:55:28.039 --> 01:55:29.880 Hart's doing a lot of work with female firefighters 01:55:29.880 --> 01:55:32.659 and things. So although it sounds pretty boring, 01:55:32.859 --> 01:55:35.779 they're kind of like the people who are trying 01:55:35.779 --> 01:55:39.619 to push things forward from the academic side, 01:55:39.779 --> 01:55:41.920 which I kind of think we need a mix of that and 01:55:41.920 --> 01:55:44.289 the practical side, obviously. But I know you 01:55:44.289 --> 01:55:45.989 said one name, but there's probably four there. 01:55:46.229 --> 01:55:48.430 No, brilliant. Brilliant. Yeah, it's funny. Actually, 01:55:48.550 --> 01:55:50.270 I'm from Bath originally, just outside Bath. 01:55:50.470 --> 01:55:52.989 Ah, right. Okay. Yeah, that's my hood. It's beautiful 01:55:52.989 --> 01:55:56.010 there. Absolutely. It's not really a hood. It's 01:55:56.010 --> 01:55:58.149 quite middle class, isn't it? Yeah, it's not 01:55:58.149 --> 01:56:01.170 a hood at all. All right. Well, then the last 01:56:01.170 --> 01:56:03.109 question for you, make sure where everyone can 01:56:03.109 --> 01:56:08.119 find you. What do you do to decompress? Good 01:56:08.119 --> 01:56:10.720 point. I find that very hard. That opens up another 01:56:10.720 --> 01:56:13.399 conversation. I find it hard to turn my brain 01:56:13.399 --> 01:56:17.100 off. I suppose it's being at home. It's going 01:56:17.100 --> 01:56:19.359 in the gym. I suppose the only time I'm not thinking 01:56:19.359 --> 01:56:21.079 about anything is when I'm out and about with 01:56:21.079 --> 01:56:24.699 the wife and the dogs or I'm in the gym. It's 01:56:24.699 --> 01:56:26.899 the only two times. Generally, I find that is 01:56:26.899 --> 01:56:28.340 something I kind of, again, it's going down a 01:56:28.340 --> 01:56:30.529 rabbit hole, a bigger conversation. when I'm 01:56:30.529 --> 01:56:32.829 watching sort of TV, even I find it hard to switch 01:56:32.829 --> 01:56:34.369 off and mine's always thinking about sort of 01:56:34.369 --> 01:56:37.350 different sort of projects. So, but the gym is 01:56:37.350 --> 01:56:38.670 probably the, that's the only time when I've 01:56:38.670 --> 01:56:40.729 got the music in me is I'm not thinking about 01:56:40.729 --> 01:56:43.050 anything else other than how sort of weak I'm 01:56:43.050 --> 01:56:46.569 getting as I get older. But yeah, so gym and 01:56:46.569 --> 01:56:48.590 dogs, I suppose is the answer. That's pretty 01:56:48.590 --> 01:56:51.390 much my answer too. So I totally get it. All 01:56:51.390 --> 01:56:53.409 right. Well then for people listening, where 01:56:53.409 --> 01:56:56.130 can they learn more about you, reach out to you 01:56:56.130 --> 01:56:59.109 online? And then what about fitness at the frontline? 01:57:00.649 --> 01:57:02.930 So there's two main ways. So the main way at 01:57:02.930 --> 01:57:05.930 the moment is on LinkedIn. And on that, I'm just 01:57:05.930 --> 01:57:10.949 Mark Pierce, TSACF, because I'm a strength and 01:57:10.949 --> 01:57:17.310 conditioning facilitator with the NSCA. So that's 01:57:17.310 --> 01:57:20.750 on LinkedIn. On Facebook, it's just my name. 01:57:20.789 --> 01:57:22.550 It's just Mark Pierce. And Fitness for the Frontline 01:57:22.550 --> 01:57:24.569 is mainly run through Instagram, and it's called 01:57:24.569 --> 01:57:26.250 that. So if you give that a search, you'll see 01:57:26.250 --> 01:57:30.239 my ugly mug. If anyone wants to reach out. um 01:57:30.239 --> 01:57:33.140 even for a chat as i say i'm not sort of pitching 01:57:33.140 --> 01:57:34.619 anything but i just want to work with as many 01:57:34.619 --> 01:57:36.920 people as possible so if anyone sort of needs 01:57:36.920 --> 01:57:38.539 any sort of helpful projects and things like 01:57:38.539 --> 01:57:41.260 that i'd love to get involved beautiful well 01:57:41.260 --> 01:57:42.699 i want to thank you so much it's been such an 01:57:42.699 --> 01:57:45.039 interesting conversation obviously we took tangents 01:57:45.039 --> 01:57:46.739 when it came to strength and conditioning and 01:57:46.739 --> 01:57:49.500 tests and um you know all the other things that 01:57:49.500 --> 01:57:51.739 we've discussed but it's been uh such an amazing 01:57:51.739 --> 01:57:53.960 conversation so i want to thank you so much for 01:57:53.960 --> 01:57:56.340 being so generous with your time and coming on 01:57:56.340 --> 01:57:59.500 the behind the shield podcast today Thank you 01:57:59.500 --> 01:58:01.039 very much. Thanks for your time and patience. 01:58:01.260 --> 01:58:02.039 I've really enjoyed it.