WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.000 This episode is sponsored by a company who has 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:04.719 truly found a solution to an age -old problem, 00:00:04.860 --> 00:00:08.380 and that is Carna Bunker Gear. One of the most 00:00:08.380 --> 00:00:11.099 prevalent conversations in the fire service is 00:00:11.099 --> 00:00:13.560 should we or should we not train in our bunker 00:00:13.560 --> 00:00:17.320 gear? Now the answer to both is yes. As most 00:00:17.320 --> 00:00:19.679 of us are aware, the carcinogens from structure 00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:23.179 fires of which there are over 260 that are dangerous 00:00:23.179 --> 00:00:26.280 to human health, not to mention the PFAS and 00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:28.359 other chemicals that are within our gear from 00:00:28.359 --> 00:00:31.420 the manufacturing process, are factors that we 00:00:31.420 --> 00:00:34.119 obviously want to minimize. Now the other side 00:00:34.119 --> 00:00:36.920 of the coin is that we do need to train in our 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:39.500 gear. There is no way to acclimatize the heat 00:00:39.500 --> 00:00:42.100 retention and lack of mobility than to actually 00:00:42.100 --> 00:00:44.700 wear the gear. So seeing this problem himself, 00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:48.380 firefighter and exercise physiologist Ryan Conley 00:00:48.380 --> 00:00:51.780 developed a carcinogen -free gear at a much lower 00:00:51.780 --> 00:00:55.460 cost that can be used in non -IDLH atmosphere 00:00:55.460 --> 00:00:58.539 and training that does not require puncture or 00:00:58.539 --> 00:01:01.500 tear resistance. Now, as someone who always trained 00:01:01.500 --> 00:01:04.079 in gear myself throughout my career, I wish this 00:01:04.079 --> 00:01:06.900 technology was around then. And I got to test 00:01:06.900 --> 00:01:09.540 it personally while coaching my tactical athlete 00:01:09.540 --> 00:01:12.819 class a few weeks ago and can testify that it 00:01:12.819 --> 00:01:15.480 not only simulates the heat retention of frontline 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:18.959 gear, but also the lack of mobility, which is 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:21.319 imperative at operating at a high level on the 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:24.200 fire ground. Now, some additional benefits include 00:01:24.200 --> 00:01:27.120 being able to doff the gear when you do get banged 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:30.219 out for a call, increasing the lifespan of your 00:01:30.219 --> 00:01:33.629 frontline bunker gear, And then also public education. 00:01:33.629 --> 00:01:35.890 Think of the number of times that we allow, for 00:01:35.890 --> 00:01:38.829 example, schoolchildren to wear our gear when 00:01:38.829 --> 00:01:41.989 it's infused with all these carcinogens. So there 00:01:41.989 --> 00:01:45.349 are so many real world applications for a fraction 00:01:45.349 --> 00:01:49.549 of the cost of IDLH rated bunker gear. So if 00:01:49.549 --> 00:01:51.489 you want to hear the whole story behind this, 00:01:51.549 --> 00:01:54.010 listen to my conversation with Ryan Conley on 00:01:54.010 --> 00:01:57.590 episode 1175 of the Behind the Shield podcast, 00:01:58.069 --> 00:02:03.969 or go to carnabunkergear .com. Welcome to the 00:02:03.969 --> 00:02:05.670 Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my name 00:02:05.670 --> 00:02:07.689 is James Geering, and this week it is my absolute 00:02:07.689 --> 00:02:10.870 honor to welcome on the show, 13 -year veteran 00:02:10.870 --> 00:02:13.909 of the fire service, peer support member, and 00:02:13.909 --> 00:02:17.889 former collegiate athlete, the Twain DJ Ship. 00:02:18.969 --> 00:02:21.030 Now, in this conversation, we discuss a host 00:02:21.030 --> 00:02:23.909 of topics, from the TBIs incurred in college 00:02:23.909 --> 00:02:26.909 football, his journey into the fire service, 00:02:27.270 --> 00:02:32.490 peer support, CBD and cannabis, near -death experiences, 00:02:33.030 --> 00:02:37.289 psychedelics, and so much more. Now, before we 00:02:37.289 --> 00:02:39.449 get to this incredible conversation, as I say 00:02:39.449 --> 00:02:42.509 every week, please just take a moment. Go to 00:02:42.509 --> 00:02:44.849 whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe 00:02:44.849 --> 00:02:48.560 to the show. Leave feedback and leave a rating. 00:02:48.919 --> 00:02:52.259 Every single five -star rating truly does elevate 00:02:52.259 --> 00:02:54.879 this podcast, therefore making it easier for 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:58.460 others to find. And this is a free library of 00:02:58.460 --> 00:03:03.240 almost 1 ,200 episodes now. So all I ask in return 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:06.340 is that you help share these incredible men and 00:03:06.340 --> 00:03:09.639 women's stories so I can get them to every single 00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:12.500 person on planet Earth who needs to hear them. 00:03:13.060 --> 00:03:16.300 So with that being said... I introduce to you 00:03:16.300 --> 00:03:40.180 DJ Ship. Enjoy. Well, DJ, I want to start by 00:03:40.180 --> 00:03:42.780 saying thank you so much for initially reaching 00:03:42.780 --> 00:03:45.319 out a few years ago. We had a great conversation 00:03:45.319 --> 00:03:50.020 about CBD. We had a kind of God moment as far 00:03:50.020 --> 00:03:52.319 as this reintroduction, and here we are. So I 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:54.060 want to thank you for coming on the Behind the 00:03:54.060 --> 00:03:56.639 Shield podcast today. Oh, it's an honor. I'm 00:03:56.639 --> 00:03:58.840 glad that we got back in touch. Like I said, 00:03:58.860 --> 00:04:01.780 that's a funny story of us getting back in touch 00:04:01.780 --> 00:04:05.400 with you mixing up me and DJ Shipley, because 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:09.120 when you messaged me, I was like, all right, 00:04:09.180 --> 00:04:11.939 it's been a while since we last talked. Maybe 00:04:11.939 --> 00:04:14.740 something else came up. And you said Ryan Parrott 00:04:14.740 --> 00:04:17.019 and Marcus Capone. And I was like, I don't know 00:04:17.019 --> 00:04:19.279 who Marcus is. I don't know who Ryan is. So I 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:21.360 looked him up and he said he was a Navy SEAL. 00:04:21.459 --> 00:04:23.699 And I was like, okay, Marcus Capone's a Navy 00:04:23.699 --> 00:04:26.519 SEAL. And I was like, DJ Shipley is a Navy SEAL. 00:04:27.139 --> 00:04:31.860 DJ Ship is a fire captain. I was like, they are 00:04:31.860 --> 00:04:35.339 10 years older than me. So I was battling puberty 00:04:35.339 --> 00:04:38.910 when they were battling. overseas yeah there 00:04:38.910 --> 00:04:40.990 was a lot going on between the differences but 00:04:40.990 --> 00:04:43.089 it was very like you said there's no coincidences 00:04:43.089 --> 00:04:46.910 in life so there's a reason why that happened 00:04:46.910 --> 00:04:49.750 yeah no 100 this happens those people have been 00:04:49.750 --> 00:04:51.430 thinking about getting on the show for years 00:04:51.430 --> 00:04:53.750 and years and years and all of a sudden everything 00:04:53.750 --> 00:04:55.529 aligns and it's like all right this is the right 00:04:55.529 --> 00:04:57.550 time to do it so obviously that was the case 00:04:57.550 --> 00:05:00.350 with us well very first question where on planet 00:05:00.350 --> 00:05:02.939 earth are we finding you this afternoon So I 00:05:02.939 --> 00:05:05.199 am in China Grove, North Carolina. That's my 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:07.120 hometown. That's where I was born and raised. 00:05:07.319 --> 00:05:09.839 And I was born here. And then I ended up moving 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:12.740 to Spencer, North Carolina for a little bit. 00:05:12.819 --> 00:05:14.759 And then I came back here when me and my wife 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:16.959 met because she lived here. So I just moved back 00:05:16.959 --> 00:05:20.620 to China Grove. So let's start at that. So from 00:05:20.620 --> 00:05:22.439 your childhood, tell me what your parents did 00:05:22.439 --> 00:05:26.319 and then how many siblings you had. So my dad 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:29.660 was a garbage man. He drove a garbage truck. 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:32.500 And I was like, all right. i kind of saw the 00:05:32.500 --> 00:05:34.860 reasoning why he did that and my mom she she 00:05:34.860 --> 00:05:37.339 drove school buses and then she ended up leaving 00:05:37.339 --> 00:05:41.680 that and just kind of um working with um in houses 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:45.079 for like remedial adults or mentally handicapped 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:47.399 adults and she did that for a little bit then 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:49.420 she went back to school got her degree now she's 00:05:49.420 --> 00:05:53.519 working at the va doing like um payroll and stuff 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:56.819 like that so and i have you said how many kids 00:05:56.819 --> 00:06:01.550 do i have um no siblings Siblings I have, gosh. 00:06:02.310 --> 00:06:07.529 So I have one, two, three, four, five. Five brothers 00:06:07.529 --> 00:06:10.910 and two sisters. You know you have a lot when 00:06:10.910 --> 00:06:12.810 you have to literally stop and think and count. 00:06:13.430 --> 00:06:15.709 Yeah, I had to sit there and count on my fingers 00:06:15.709 --> 00:06:18.389 how many I got. But yeah, we have a lot of siblings 00:06:18.389 --> 00:06:21.129 around us and whatnot. And I have a few cousins 00:06:21.129 --> 00:06:24.250 that I consider siblings. So then because we're 00:06:24.250 --> 00:06:25.870 so close, we've been through so much growing 00:06:25.870 --> 00:06:28.050 up that I just, it's just one of those things 00:06:28.050 --> 00:06:30.500 I consider them. my brothers or my sisters and 00:06:30.500 --> 00:06:34.860 stuff like that with the um with your dad first 00:06:34.860 --> 00:06:37.680 with the the uh you know trash collection world 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:41.079 that he worked in what are some of the stories 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:43.319 that he's told about that because i mean you 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:46.079 hear everything from you know them finding abandoned 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:49.959 infants to you know doing cpr on people to you 00:06:49.959 --> 00:06:52.660 know so many amazing stories through to myself 00:06:52.660 --> 00:06:55.629 including The trash guys were my heroes when 00:06:55.629 --> 00:06:57.410 I was little. I was that little kid that used 00:06:57.410 --> 00:06:59.250 to wait for them. Sometimes I'd put booby traps 00:06:59.250 --> 00:07:01.389 for them too, and they fell over and hurt themselves. 00:07:02.230 --> 00:07:04.870 So talk to me about it. What did he tell you 00:07:04.870 --> 00:07:06.389 about the highs and the lows of his profession? 00:07:07.149 --> 00:07:09.750 The biggest thing with that, so he started out 00:07:09.750 --> 00:07:11.769 doing that, but he had a CDL, so he ended up 00:07:11.769 --> 00:07:13.970 being a truck driver. So he kind of did a little 00:07:13.970 --> 00:07:15.569 bit of both, but with the trash truck thing, 00:07:15.610 --> 00:07:19.290 that was the furthest back I can remember of 00:07:19.290 --> 00:07:21.589 what he did was that. And he took me on a couple 00:07:21.589 --> 00:07:24.899 of rides with him. back in the 90s when I was 00:07:24.899 --> 00:07:27.480 younger, and I remember riding around with him. 00:07:27.540 --> 00:07:30.259 I do remember a couple times going with him and 00:07:30.259 --> 00:07:34.540 getting the big dumpsters and dumping them off 00:07:34.540 --> 00:07:35.540 and everything. I was just kind of like, that's 00:07:35.540 --> 00:07:37.439 pretty cool. You know, you never think about 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:39.620 anything like that. That's pretty cool. But then 00:07:39.620 --> 00:07:41.420 he ended up going and driving a tractor trailer 00:07:41.420 --> 00:07:45.220 for a company, and he drove that for a little 00:07:45.220 --> 00:07:49.240 while, and then he got laid off because he had 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:52.930 back surgery. and he got addicted to pills at 00:07:52.930 --> 00:07:55.670 some point and and the pain pill painkillers 00:07:55.670 --> 00:07:57.970 and it was one of those things that kind of it 00:07:57.970 --> 00:07:59.709 devastated me at the time but then i was just 00:07:59.709 --> 00:08:04.129 like okay it happens it never it never knew that 00:08:04.129 --> 00:08:06.370 it would come back around full circle to where 00:08:06.370 --> 00:08:07.949 i'm in the fire service and that's one of the 00:08:07.949 --> 00:08:11.389 things popping up that's happening a lot is how 00:08:11.389 --> 00:08:14.970 much addiction is within the fire service how 00:08:14.970 --> 00:08:18.910 much addiction we see around us So he ended up 00:08:18.910 --> 00:08:24.089 passing away in 2011. And what's funny about 00:08:24.089 --> 00:08:25.870 that story, like I said, there's no coincidences. 00:08:26.050 --> 00:08:29.269 When I was in recruit school, we were going through 00:08:29.269 --> 00:08:33.409 EMT, and we came across congestive heart failure. 00:08:33.870 --> 00:08:35.929 And I started listening to the ways they were, 00:08:36.129 --> 00:08:38.990 the symptoms of it. And I remember my little 00:08:38.990 --> 00:08:40.830 brother, he was there when my dad passed away, 00:08:40.970 --> 00:08:44.129 telling me how he sounded like he was drowning, 00:08:44.490 --> 00:08:47.210 how he was trying to breathe. And his wife said, 00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:49.539 He said he couldn't breathe and he laid down 00:08:49.539 --> 00:08:51.039 and they said he started sounding like he was 00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:53.100 gargling. And I was like, that sounds like congestive 00:08:53.100 --> 00:08:55.159 heart failure, like the fluids building back 00:08:55.159 --> 00:08:59.440 up in his lungs. And it was ironic that my career 00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:02.940 gave me closure on that part of my life that 00:09:02.940 --> 00:09:06.419 I didn't have. I just interviewed a guy, Rick 00:09:06.419 --> 00:09:09.139 Mountcastle, who was the lawyer that took Purdue 00:09:09.139 --> 00:09:12.000 Pharma to court. They were the ones that created 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:15.220 OxyContin. And so, you know, your father obviously 00:09:15.220 --> 00:09:17.720 was probably one of the very many people that 00:09:17.720 --> 00:09:20.279 were caught up in the ripple effects of initially 00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:25.299 be given prescription opioids. And then, you 00:09:25.299 --> 00:09:26.960 know, a lot of people, obviously, when the pill 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:29.559 was all those closed down, that created, you 00:09:29.559 --> 00:09:31.600 know, people moving into other areas to get that. 00:09:32.779 --> 00:09:35.059 Literally millions of people have died from that. 00:09:35.139 --> 00:09:38.240 And that was FDA approved through, you know, 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:40.720 a corrupt government at the time. So, you know, 00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:42.559 this, I mean, it breaks my heart, but yeah, I 00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:44.559 mean, there's so many, I remember a full arrest 00:09:44.559 --> 00:09:47.820 I went to and I was still an EMT at the time. 00:09:48.299 --> 00:09:50.559 And we pushed Narcan and I was at the head and 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:53.080 I'm like, dude, I swear I saw some light go back 00:09:53.080 --> 00:09:55.019 into his eyes. But I wasn't the medic. You know, 00:09:55.059 --> 00:09:57.500 my friend was a lead medic. And so he carried 00:09:57.500 --> 00:10:00.220 on all the other drugs. But I guarantee you that 00:10:00.220 --> 00:10:01.919 was another guy. I think he was in construction, 00:10:02.139 --> 00:10:05.100 had shoulder surgery, was given opiates and we 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:07.460 never got him back. So. So, yeah, I mean, the 00:10:07.460 --> 00:10:10.600 the ripple effect of that kind of, you know, 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:13.740 gross corruption and all the people, the lives 00:10:13.740 --> 00:10:15.740 that affected, you know, I'm sorry that your 00:10:15.740 --> 00:10:20.039 family was one of them. At the time, I was kind 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:22.440 of blinded to it. I kind of was just like, he's 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:24.460 just taking pills for his back. I didn't think 00:10:24.460 --> 00:10:27.320 of it as anything other than that. And then, 00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:30.639 like I said, the more and more I started running 00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:32.519 calls and running things and I started putting 00:10:32.519 --> 00:10:35.799 them together, a lot of people that have surgery 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:39.360 or anything like that that use pain pills end 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:41.799 up addicted to them or to the point where they 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:46.000 can't find any other remedy to help them. And 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:50.720 that's kind of what led me into my research about 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:53.659 CBD when I was in Charlotte. That's what led 00:10:53.659 --> 00:10:56.919 me to my research about that was how many firefighters 00:10:56.919 --> 00:11:01.220 put off a surgery or put off a treatment until 00:11:01.220 --> 00:11:03.179 they retire because they either don't want to 00:11:03.179 --> 00:11:06.860 get hooked on pain pills or they just would rather 00:11:06.860 --> 00:11:09.440 not get in trouble for having pain pills and 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:11.799 needing them on duty and not being able to do 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:15.740 their job. You know, so there was a lot. behind 00:11:15.740 --> 00:11:19.340 that research and with cbd it was very promising 00:11:19.340 --> 00:11:22.620 but i i had came to a head really quick when 00:11:22.620 --> 00:11:25.659 i talked to the city and uh the city drug policy 00:11:25.659 --> 00:11:29.639 lady was kind of like this is not drug policy 00:11:29.639 --> 00:11:32.340 lady talking to a firefighter this is her say 00:11:32.340 --> 00:11:35.179 her name is tiffany tiffany talking to dj your 00:11:35.179 --> 00:11:38.639 job and what cannabis is will never they'll never 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:41.820 mesh they'll never be able to be accepted together 00:11:41.820 --> 00:11:44.139 because we stand for something a lot more honorable 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:47.279 when the stigma on cannabis is not as honorable, 00:11:47.480 --> 00:11:50.159 so to speak, but there's also that stigma on 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:52.659 cannabis and psychedelics and all the other things 00:11:52.659 --> 00:11:57.139 that are there that could possibly help us. Yeah, 00:11:57.139 --> 00:12:03.259 it's crazy. I mean, the zero THC CBD needs zero 00:12:03.259 --> 00:12:06.200 discussion with anyone anyway, because you are 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:09.179 literally taking... just hemp there's no thc 00:12:09.179 --> 00:12:12.100 in it and i think the rescue one cbd is the one 00:12:12.100 --> 00:12:15.139 that i you know would send people to but that 00:12:15.139 --> 00:12:17.679 is so sad because yes you can go to a physician 00:12:17.679 --> 00:12:21.679 and get muscle relaxers and opioids and you know 00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:24.960 psych meds and it's totally fine but you take 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:27.320 something that's been extracted from the hemp 00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:30.320 plant and let's say it's zero thc even that 0 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:33.539 .3 has been removed and there's all this stigma 00:12:33.539 --> 00:12:36.769 well The CBD is just simply going to be therapeutic 00:12:36.769 --> 00:12:39.590 for you. All those other drugs will actually 00:12:39.590 --> 00:12:43.649 alter your state of mind. So there's stigma around 00:12:43.649 --> 00:12:46.750 the wrong things. That's the problem. And the 00:12:46.750 --> 00:12:49.289 stigma, and that's my biggest thing for being 00:12:49.289 --> 00:12:53.769 an advocate for what we do and how that can help 00:12:53.769 --> 00:12:58.230 us, is because the stigma is so negative for 00:12:58.230 --> 00:13:01.220 so long that it's so hard to say, hey. This is 00:13:01.220 --> 00:13:02.919 actually something that's going to help us. This 00:13:02.919 --> 00:13:06.500 is actually something that is going to help the 00:13:06.500 --> 00:13:09.559 newer generation coming in that are going to 00:13:09.559 --> 00:13:11.299 have to see certain things they've never seen 00:13:11.299 --> 00:13:15.460 ever. I don't think anybody's supposed to see 00:13:15.460 --> 00:13:19.259 the things we've seen in 14 years in their lifetime. 00:13:19.580 --> 00:13:22.779 So think about what they can use to help with 00:13:22.779 --> 00:13:27.399 the coping mechanisms for that. The stigma on 00:13:27.399 --> 00:13:30.570 psychedelics also is just... It's just as bad. 00:13:30.870 --> 00:13:33.090 Psychedelics and cannabis are both just as bad. 00:13:33.529 --> 00:13:38.029 But the benefits for anybody that takes them 00:13:38.029 --> 00:13:42.230 is astronomical. It's amazing to see that. And 00:13:42.230 --> 00:13:44.710 that's like in Waves and War, I have been immersed 00:13:44.710 --> 00:13:47.370 by that movie. I've watched it like five times 00:13:47.370 --> 00:13:50.250 over and over, just picking different things 00:13:50.250 --> 00:13:54.289 apart from Marcus, DJ, and Matty's stories. And 00:13:54.289 --> 00:13:56.690 I showed it to a couple of guys at the fire department. 00:13:57.200 --> 00:13:59.039 yesterday the other day and they were like man 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:00.480 they look like firefighters that sounds like 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:03.460 that sounds like what I go through daily and 00:14:03.460 --> 00:14:06.200 I was like yes so as we keep watching and we 00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:09.179 keep relating the trauma that they went through 00:14:09.179 --> 00:14:10.940 and the trauma that we've been through or continue 00:14:10.940 --> 00:14:14.320 to go through I guess I started doing some neurological 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:18.620 study and from when I the way I interpreted it 00:14:18.620 --> 00:14:22.840 is trauma is trauma the brain doesn't decipher 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:25.860 where you get that trauma from it's trauma and 00:14:25.860 --> 00:14:29.399 how the brain processes it is the same way whether 00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:32.440 they were in battle or we were doing cpr on an 00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:35.700 infant that trauma still has those same effects 00:14:35.700 --> 00:14:39.600 on our brains and then you add the tbi or concussions 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:43.580 from football because i played football and then 00:14:43.580 --> 00:14:45.639 you don't know what concussion gave you the tbi 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:48.360 or what flashbang gave you that tbi but it's 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:53.039 there and it has the same effect as the concussion 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:57.960 that hernandez had or whatnot Well, and the other 00:14:57.960 --> 00:14:59.700 thing that we have in common, I was just spent 00:14:59.700 --> 00:15:01.480 literally last week, I was around a bunch of 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:05.360 seals. I did the documentary premiere for 7X 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:07.259 where it was out in Dallas. And then I went down 00:15:07.259 --> 00:15:10.039 to Echelon Front where, you know, Jocko and Leif 00:15:10.039 --> 00:15:13.039 Bavin's conference that they put on. There's 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:15.740 a load of seals attached to that as well. But 00:15:15.740 --> 00:15:19.279 that community has leaned very heavily into psychedelics, 00:15:19.299 --> 00:15:21.769 especially Ibogaine. But the thing that we also 00:15:21.769 --> 00:15:24.750 have in common with, ironically, the military, 00:15:24.789 --> 00:15:28.049 but also incarcerated people, is a high level 00:15:28.049 --> 00:15:31.690 of childhood adversity that drives us into the 00:15:31.690 --> 00:15:34.049 military, into police, fire, EMS, because we 00:15:34.049 --> 00:15:37.610 want to help. We also want, in a way, a distraction 00:15:37.610 --> 00:15:39.509 from the thing that we're trying not to think 00:15:39.509 --> 00:15:41.889 about. So when we go through these therapies, 00:15:42.210 --> 00:15:45.330 more often than not, you hear, it wasn't the 00:15:45.330 --> 00:15:48.649 fire. It wasn't the PD code. It wasn't Fallujah. 00:15:48.909 --> 00:15:51.470 It was actually... you know, what happened when 00:15:51.470 --> 00:15:54.330 you were eight, nine, 10, 12. So I see that as 00:15:54.330 --> 00:15:56.289 a commonality as well. These medicines are allowing 00:15:56.289 --> 00:15:59.389 us to revisit some of these traumas and then 00:15:59.389 --> 00:16:02.429 reframe them. And now that that carries on the 00:16:02.429 --> 00:16:06.269 healing. Yeah. I noticed that one of the ones 00:16:06.269 --> 00:16:09.690 that set with me was when DJ Shipley was talking 00:16:09.690 --> 00:16:13.330 about his, he was cutting the grass and he ran 00:16:13.330 --> 00:16:15.710 over the root and his dad freaked out on him. 00:16:15.750 --> 00:16:18.289 And then he, he ended up doing that to his daughter. 00:16:18.389 --> 00:16:23.590 And I was like, That's absolutely, it's insane 00:16:23.590 --> 00:16:25.889 that that's one of the things that the medicine 00:16:25.889 --> 00:16:28.309 brought to him. It was like, this is what you 00:16:28.309 --> 00:16:30.610 need to focus on. You've seen this and this is 00:16:30.610 --> 00:16:32.610 what you didn't want to be. And this is what 00:16:32.610 --> 00:16:36.470 you are. So I started watching a show. I watched 00:16:36.470 --> 00:16:38.389 it a long time ago, but it was called The Mind. 00:16:38.429 --> 00:16:40.909 It's on Netflix, The Mind Explained. And they 00:16:40.909 --> 00:16:43.570 talk about psychedelics. And they talk about 00:16:43.570 --> 00:16:48.090 one of the words I heard so many times in Waves 00:16:48.090 --> 00:16:51.899 and War was ego. was that voice inside your head. 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:55.539 And when I watched the mind explain, they said 00:16:55.539 --> 00:16:57.539 your ego comes from your default mode network. 00:16:57.620 --> 00:17:00.940 Your prefrontal cortex is speaking with, I can't 00:17:00.940 --> 00:17:02.779 remember what the other part was. I have to go 00:17:02.779 --> 00:17:05.880 back and look at it. But it's where your ego 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:09.339 is. It's what makes up your identity. So like 00:17:09.339 --> 00:17:12.039 you said, for all of us that are in the business 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:15.299 of the fire service or military, it's like we 00:17:15.299 --> 00:17:20.309 have that ego that needs to be... I guess you 00:17:20.309 --> 00:17:22.990 could say revisited every time we go through 00:17:22.990 --> 00:17:26.230 a different part of life. So with kids from childhood, 00:17:26.630 --> 00:17:29.890 so you're looking at your father who is the only 00:17:29.890 --> 00:17:32.309 man that you really have to model and you're 00:17:32.309 --> 00:17:34.490 trying to be like him, but he's not accepting 00:17:34.490 --> 00:17:38.990 you as a person or even as a man. So now you're 00:17:38.990 --> 00:17:42.769 pushing yourself to get approval as a man for 00:17:42.769 --> 00:17:46.069 years. So then once you get to that point where 00:17:46.069 --> 00:17:48.799 now I'm in middle school, Now, I've already changed 00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:50.680 from elementary. There's another ego change, 00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:53.339 another identity change. And if you're an athlete, 00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:55.220 that's another thing that goes on top of it. 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:58.059 Somebody says, your coach comes to you. And a 00:17:58.059 --> 00:18:00.880 lot of players that don't have fathers see their 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.660 coaches as their fathers. So they see their coach 00:18:03.660 --> 00:18:05.720 say, I need you to make this play. I need you 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:07.940 to make this shot. And that puts another level 00:18:07.940 --> 00:18:11.039 of pressure on you to seek that approval. And 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:13.259 it just keeps on compounding until you become 00:18:13.259 --> 00:18:14.940 an adult. And now you're like, what's my career? 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:20.420 So many times as men, we question our identity. 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:22.980 We question what we're supposed to do. You know 00:18:22.980 --> 00:18:25.019 what I mean? And you're always seeking that approval. 00:18:25.539 --> 00:18:29.799 And then in Waves and War, when Marcus was just 00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:32.640 like, this ain't none of my fault. Like, I did 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:34.920 the best I could with what I had, and it's not 00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:37.460 my fault. And it's like, you can see, I could 00:18:37.460 --> 00:18:41.059 literally see the change from the pictures that 00:18:41.059 --> 00:18:43.480 were popping up to who we were talking to. in 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:45.420 the interviews and i was like they look so much 00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:48.720 healthier they look so much better just from 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:51.539 that little bit of treatment i was like why are 00:18:51.539 --> 00:18:54.119 we not pushing this out to the people that need 00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:59.099 it you know it just it blows my mind when you 00:18:59.099 --> 00:19:01.980 look back now because we'll get into to your 00:19:01.980 --> 00:19:04.519 football you talked about how the coach becomes 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:06.859 a mentor or a father figure even was that an 00:19:06.859 --> 00:19:09.579 element of your upbringing too pretty much like 00:19:09.579 --> 00:19:12.599 my mom she was a single mom and my dad was we 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:14.380 lived around the same area so he would come pick 00:19:14.380 --> 00:19:16.960 me up but and he was at my games but when it 00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:21.200 came to me having that in the house I didn't 00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:23.700 have that so when I go play football or when 00:19:23.700 --> 00:19:27.420 I go wrestle mainly football and wrestling and 00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:29.619 then I had a track coach who was the best track 00:19:29.619 --> 00:19:32.660 coach in the state for a while and those three 00:19:32.660 --> 00:19:38.119 guys would always shape me and help me to be 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:40.980 the best I could and put out everything and give 00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:43.440 everything on the field. So when that translated 00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:46.140 to the fire service or when that translated to 00:19:46.140 --> 00:19:49.420 college, when I focused in on just playing football 00:19:49.420 --> 00:19:52.819 for college, it was almost the same effect where 00:19:52.819 --> 00:19:56.660 you're like, I'm still seeking that approval. 00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:59.259 I'm still making sure that I keep my coach happy 00:19:59.259 --> 00:20:01.099 because that's the person that believes in me 00:20:01.099 --> 00:20:04.630 right now the most. You know what I mean? You 00:20:04.630 --> 00:20:06.430 know, it's really interesting because I've had 00:20:06.430 --> 00:20:09.430 this conversation a lot with people like yourself 00:20:09.430 --> 00:20:11.910 that were high level athletes in school, college, 00:20:11.970 --> 00:20:14.349 or maybe even beyond. And then the coaches, you 00:20:14.349 --> 00:20:15.829 know, strength and conditioning and the actual, 00:20:15.970 --> 00:20:19.569 you know, skills coaches. And when I moved to 00:20:19.569 --> 00:20:22.150 America about 22 years ago, you know, I've told 00:20:22.150 --> 00:20:25.529 the story a lot. I started realizing that a lot 00:20:25.529 --> 00:20:27.470 of the guys I would talk to that were in their 00:20:27.470 --> 00:20:30.609 like late 20s, early 30s. It was almost like 00:20:30.609 --> 00:20:33.650 this Uncle Rico story over and over again. I 00:20:33.650 --> 00:20:35.529 could have, would have, should have had it not 00:20:35.529 --> 00:20:39.970 been for my ACL, my labrum. And I started thinking 00:20:39.970 --> 00:20:42.690 like, what the hell are we doing to youth athletes 00:20:42.690 --> 00:20:45.609 in this country? Because where I came from and 00:20:45.609 --> 00:20:48.349 the era I came from, you didn't really have that 00:20:48.349 --> 00:20:51.009 high level of performance in schools and colleges 00:20:51.009 --> 00:20:54.559 unless you were clearly going to be. you know, 00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:56.660 a Premier League football player or, you know, 00:20:56.660 --> 00:20:58.039 just one of those. And then, of course, yeah, 00:20:58.099 --> 00:21:00.299 you could go through the farm leagues and, you 00:21:00.299 --> 00:21:02.359 know, be groomed to be a high -level athlete. 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:05.099 But the rest of us were just playing sport for 00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:07.480 fun. That was it. Play other schools. But there 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:10.539 was no, you know, gym time, for example. We weren't 00:21:10.539 --> 00:21:11.900 in the weight room. There was no weight room, 00:21:11.940 --> 00:21:14.299 you know. Have to pick up sheep and bench press 00:21:14.299 --> 00:21:17.799 them. Well, that's what I've seen because I've 00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:19.900 got – so I've got four boys and they're in all 00:21:19.900 --> 00:21:23.079 different levels of sport. I've got a college 00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:25.900 athlete. i got a high school athlete i have a 00:21:25.900 --> 00:21:28.380 fifth grader that he plays with middle schoolers 00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:30.759 he so he'll be able to play up so when he'll 00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:33.039 be in middle school then i got a nine a nine 00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:35.200 -year -old that plays i mean he's just he's just 00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:38.079 he's just a monster on the field they all are 00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:40.680 like from top down they can all play baseball 00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:45.960 but there's so many guys like you said that didn't 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:48.279 get that chance to make it but knew but had all 00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:51.079 the tools that are teaching the younger generation 00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:53.500 how to do it And that's where you're getting 00:21:53.500 --> 00:21:56.279 higher caliber athletes and higher caliber firefighters 00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:00.039 and police officers because the people that are 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:04.900 done are passing on that information. I know 00:22:04.900 --> 00:22:07.259 for me, I pay a lot of attention to some of the 00:22:07.259 --> 00:22:10.160 veterans in the fire service because when I was 00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:13.440 at Salisbury, the guys that were teaching me 00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:17.299 were fighting fire before I was even born. They 00:22:17.299 --> 00:22:20.559 were fighting fire in 85, 86, and I was born 00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:22.930 in 88. And they're teaching me how to do what 00:22:22.930 --> 00:22:25.650 they do. They've been on for 30 years. So I learned 00:22:25.650 --> 00:22:28.170 old school way. Salisbury taught me the old school 00:22:28.170 --> 00:22:32.390 way to be a firefighter. That's my base level 00:22:32.390 --> 00:22:35.549 of training. There's a captain that was in Charlotte. 00:22:35.630 --> 00:22:39.650 He's retired. And one of his lines was, when 00:22:39.650 --> 00:22:42.150 shit hits the fan, we revert to our lowest level 00:22:42.150 --> 00:22:44.750 of training. And I'm like, he's got a point. 00:22:44.869 --> 00:22:47.410 My lowest level of training is old school firefighting. 00:22:47.589 --> 00:22:50.799 You know what I mean? I take pride in having 00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:54.440 that because not many people are going to know 00:22:54.440 --> 00:22:56.119 what that old school type of firefighting is. 00:22:56.140 --> 00:22:58.339 So we don't fight fire as much anymore like we 00:22:58.339 --> 00:23:01.339 used to. Now, some places do. And some places 00:23:01.339 --> 00:23:04.240 do. When you train on it, you get a chance to 00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:07.640 use it. But some places don't. Some of our stations 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:10.160 in Charlotte don't. They're just slower stations. 00:23:10.619 --> 00:23:13.359 And they don't fight a fire as much. So we have 00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:16.240 to work on honing that skill a whole lot more 00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:18.519 by talking to veterans and people that have been 00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:21.859 through it. Yeah, no, I agree with that experience. 00:23:21.900 --> 00:23:25.319 I agree completely with the injury. So I realized 00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:29.920 that a lot of the high schools and colleges would 00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:32.920 squeeze out performance from the youth athletes, 00:23:33.059 --> 00:23:36.000 but at the expense of their longevity of their 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:39.420 wellbeing. And you just kind of made me think 00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:41.759 one of the elements is probably contributing 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:44.279 to that is exactly like you said, because there's 00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:47.230 this mentorship element. Kids are putting all 00:23:47.230 --> 00:23:49.029 their trust in this person. They actually want 00:23:49.029 --> 00:23:51.829 to impress this person. So when they're asked 00:23:51.829 --> 00:23:54.529 to maybe do things that are too much, they're 00:23:54.529 --> 00:23:57.829 just not questioning it. So it shows how important 00:23:57.829 --> 00:24:01.109 it is for responsibility at the coaching level 00:24:01.109 --> 00:24:03.789 to find that balance between, yeah, I want to 00:24:03.789 --> 00:24:06.450 win this high school game. But if I keep drilling 00:24:06.450 --> 00:24:09.490 these kids and their shoulder or knee doesn't 00:24:09.490 --> 00:24:12.569 work anymore. macro level, what was the point? 00:24:12.690 --> 00:24:14.890 Yeah, we won the game, but now that kid never 00:24:14.890 --> 00:24:18.130 plays sport again. We've just destroyed the life 00:24:18.130 --> 00:24:20.490 of that adult then. So I think it's a really 00:24:20.490 --> 00:24:22.789 important conversation. You can have both. And 00:24:22.789 --> 00:24:25.410 the higher level athletes, a lot of times they 00:24:25.410 --> 00:24:27.990 do. But at the high school and college level, 00:24:28.230 --> 00:24:30.130 especially maybe some of the ones that don't 00:24:30.130 --> 00:24:34.309 have the most well -versed coaches, the danger 00:24:34.309 --> 00:24:37.730 is that the win becomes more important than the 00:24:37.730 --> 00:24:40.790 actual well -being of their team. Absolutely. 00:24:40.790 --> 00:24:46.569 And that translates through from childhood to, 00:24:46.630 --> 00:24:49.269 like you said, being an athlete to even being 00:24:49.269 --> 00:24:51.829 in the military. You know, the military asked 00:24:51.829 --> 00:24:54.109 those guys to go fight, put their lives on the 00:24:54.109 --> 00:24:56.250 line. And then when they get back, it's like, 00:24:56.289 --> 00:24:59.329 thanks. See you later. They ask us as firefighters 00:24:59.329 --> 00:25:02.650 to beat ourselves up, sleep deprivation, you 00:25:02.650 --> 00:25:05.730 know, anxiety, heart issues, cancer, all that 00:25:05.730 --> 00:25:07.390 stuff. And then at the end of it, oh, you don't 00:25:07.390 --> 00:25:09.920 have insurance. And you're like, well. Okay. 00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:12.799 Now we'll give you a little something to supplement 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:15.140 for not having insurance when you retire, but 00:25:15.140 --> 00:25:17.440 you got mental health issues. Oh, we got a little 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:19.619 bit of things here. And one of the questions 00:25:19.619 --> 00:25:22.299 when I got on the peer support team in Charlotte 00:25:22.299 --> 00:25:26.599 was on a questionnaire. They said, do you feel 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:29.859 like Charlotte provides an adequate amount of 00:25:29.859 --> 00:25:32.779 resources for mental health? And when I first 00:25:32.779 --> 00:25:34.910 started, I was like, I don't. really know i don't 00:25:34.910 --> 00:25:37.730 really know if they do now it's gotten a lot 00:25:37.730 --> 00:25:41.309 broader to the point where we have like a flow 00:25:41.309 --> 00:25:43.950 chart that lets you know like this is how you 00:25:43.950 --> 00:25:46.289 need to evaluate yourself to know when to go 00:25:46.289 --> 00:25:49.410 get help you know i mean but the approval like 00:25:49.410 --> 00:25:54.630 you said the seeking that approval is what your 00:25:54.630 --> 00:25:58.309 identity comes from you know because like i said 00:25:58.309 --> 00:26:00.390 you look at your coach your coach is like laid 00:26:00.390 --> 00:26:03.410 on the line and you're like okay, I'm going to 00:26:03.410 --> 00:26:04.750 lay it on the line for this guy. You'll do the 00:26:04.750 --> 00:26:07.170 same thing for a captain that you have respect 00:26:07.170 --> 00:26:10.250 for. On the fire truck, if a captain looks at 00:26:10.250 --> 00:26:12.150 you and says, we need to take this wall down, 00:26:12.309 --> 00:26:13.990 and you're like, all right, and you don't even 00:26:13.990 --> 00:26:15.869 question it. You go take the wall down, and now 00:26:15.869 --> 00:26:17.470 you're waiting for the next thing. There's some 00:26:17.470 --> 00:26:19.170 people that won't do that for a captain they 00:26:19.170 --> 00:26:21.809 don't respect. They won't do that for a chief 00:26:21.809 --> 00:26:23.849 they don't respect. They'll be like, no, I don't 00:26:23.849 --> 00:26:25.089 want to do that, chief. And now you're sitting 00:26:25.089 --> 00:26:27.190 here fighting with people, trying to get them 00:26:27.190 --> 00:26:30.670 to do the job. And so there becomes a certain 00:26:30.670 --> 00:26:35.730 level of, respect that comes into that. There's 00:26:35.730 --> 00:26:40.970 no doubt that the people that their dads treat 00:26:40.970 --> 00:26:43.390 them like crap, they still have a level of respect 00:26:43.390 --> 00:26:45.170 for them for some reason. It's their father. 00:26:46.210 --> 00:26:50.390 When you don't have that and you have a coach 00:26:50.390 --> 00:26:53.369 or a captain or just another person that you 00:26:53.369 --> 00:26:55.869 come across that just really resonates, you meet 00:26:55.869 --> 00:26:58.829 them at work, you see that you want to keep on 00:26:58.829 --> 00:27:02.119 trying to improve. for that person to give you 00:27:02.119 --> 00:27:05.440 praise or whatnot. And that's where the lay it 00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:08.000 on the line comes from, is when you seek that 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:10.519 approval and you seek that praise and you continue 00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:15.880 to beat yourself up. So the movie Concussion, 00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:17.980 when I watched it, I was just sitting there looking 00:27:17.980 --> 00:27:24.740 at it. And when the doctor first discovered it, 00:27:24.819 --> 00:27:27.680 and I was like, when they looked back at Webster's 00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:32.400 career, in the nfl and like he he laid it on 00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:35.740 the line and then he ended up being homeless 00:27:35.740 --> 00:27:38.839 mutilate self mutilating himself and then eventually 00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:41.440 he ended up killing dying from it and it's just 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:45.240 like that's like we are asked that as as men 00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:49.079 as people as people in society to continue to 00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:52.920 provide to continue to show up you know i mean 00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:54.559 and we don't ever think about us we'll never 00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:58.200 think about how do i feel in this whole situation 00:27:59.520 --> 00:28:02.859 Absolutely. What about TBIs? What position were 00:28:02.859 --> 00:28:05.619 you playing in football? I played defensive end 00:28:05.619 --> 00:28:08.920 and tight end, and we were in the trenches. It 00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:10.700 was always a fight in the trenches every time. 00:28:10.859 --> 00:28:13.779 So, like, on defense, you make a hit, make a 00:28:13.779 --> 00:28:15.759 tackle, and you're just like – and you wake up. 00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:18.180 And I say wake up because you hit the ground 00:28:18.180 --> 00:28:20.720 and you open your eyes, and it's still fuzzy 00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:23.339 and it's still like – the light – of course, 00:28:23.339 --> 00:28:24.799 you got the Friday night lights, but then it's 00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:27.099 just like – it's still fuzzy. You're just like, 00:28:27.140 --> 00:28:28.559 man, that was a good hit. But then it's just 00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:31.880 like – My head hurts. But it's not bad enough 00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:33.319 to where I'm like, I'm going to leave the game. 00:28:33.980 --> 00:28:36.660 It's not bad enough to where I'm like, I need 00:28:36.660 --> 00:28:38.680 to take a break. I'm going to just go line up 00:28:38.680 --> 00:28:41.519 and do it again and do it again and again and 00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:44.059 again and again. And sometimes you get to the 00:28:44.059 --> 00:28:45.839 point where you're hitting somebody just as big 00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:48.920 as you, just as fast as you, and y 'all are hitting 00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:52.859 just as hard. And I was like, that's insane. 00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:57.869 I never had a true concussion. the little concussion, 00:28:57.869 --> 00:29:00.430 everybody says the micro concussions still have 00:29:00.430 --> 00:29:02.690 the same effect. And I was like, I know I've 00:29:02.690 --> 00:29:04.509 had some of that where you hit somebody who's 00:29:04.509 --> 00:29:08.569 kind of dazed for a minute. So I want to, I've 00:29:08.569 --> 00:29:11.769 seen the TBIs in Waves and War when they said 00:29:11.769 --> 00:29:15.009 that Marcus and DJ and those guys were diagnosed 00:29:15.009 --> 00:29:18.490 with TBIs from concussions, from breaches and 00:29:18.490 --> 00:29:20.809 stuff like that, explosives going off. And I 00:29:20.809 --> 00:29:23.190 was like, I wonder if it's like, if that has 00:29:23.190 --> 00:29:26.230 to be like the same. correlation you know i mean 00:29:26.230 --> 00:29:28.789 yeah yeah but the same as i look back i didn't 00:29:28.789 --> 00:29:31.150 play um rugby but i haven't really had football 00:29:31.150 --> 00:29:33.029 we have football but not the same football in 00:29:33.029 --> 00:29:35.990 england but um i didn't play like a you know 00:29:35.990 --> 00:29:38.390 a tackling sport but i was a martial artist so 00:29:38.390 --> 00:29:40.869 i got kicked in the head and punched in the head 00:29:40.869 --> 00:29:43.509 and so when i look back it's like okay yeah no 00:29:43.509 --> 00:29:45.970 i did especially as i actually got into my 20s 00:29:45.970 --> 00:29:49.230 i really really took some some headshots so yeah 00:29:49.230 --> 00:29:51.529 i mean you and then you add that to sleep deprivation 00:29:51.529 --> 00:29:54.599 which we'll get into in a bit That actually has 00:29:54.599 --> 00:29:57.519 the same impact on the neurons as trauma does, 00:29:57.619 --> 00:30:00.740 where the myelin sheath gets what they call demyelinated. 00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:05.599 So it it degradates, degrades, excuse me. And 00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:07.359 so you have the same thing. So if you've got 00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:10.799 TBIs and chronic sleep deprivation, you're basically 00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:14.640 doubling down on the damage then. Yes. And that's 00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:16.779 and that so that was one of the reasons I went 00:30:16.779 --> 00:30:19.980 into looking into like the neurology of TBIs, 00:30:19.980 --> 00:30:23.359 trauma on the brain and stuff like that. and 00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:26.819 i had at one point i thought just trauma can 00:30:26.819 --> 00:30:28.900 damage brain cells but then i looked and i said 00:30:28.900 --> 00:30:31.259 you know it has to be something else in there 00:30:31.259 --> 00:30:35.220 to damage the brain cells sometimes it's physical 00:30:35.220 --> 00:30:39.299 sometimes the trauma from the concussions is 00:30:39.299 --> 00:30:41.339 what damages the brain cells and that's what 00:30:41.339 --> 00:30:45.960 kickstarts the cte and whatnot but like when 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:51.750 you think about how our brain communicates I'm 00:30:51.750 --> 00:30:53.309 sure we're probably going to get later on in 00:30:53.309 --> 00:30:56.069 talking about psychedelics and what they do with 00:30:56.069 --> 00:30:58.250 the brain. But when you think about how the brain 00:30:58.250 --> 00:31:01.890 communicates and the way I looked at it with 00:31:01.890 --> 00:31:04.890 CBD is when you have a traumatic experience, 00:31:05.309 --> 00:31:08.809 it's like a pig path through the woods or deer 00:31:08.809 --> 00:31:11.190 path through the woods. It's a beaten path all 00:31:11.190 --> 00:31:14.349 the way through. So anytime our brain associates 00:31:14.349 --> 00:31:18.250 anything close to that trauma, it goes back to 00:31:18.250 --> 00:31:21.880 that moment. So you can walk by a car that was 00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:26.220 yellow and you ran a call 10 years ago of a yellow 00:31:26.220 --> 00:31:29.960 car with, it just stuck in your mind. And it 00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:32.680 takes you back to that 10 years and you're on 00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:35.140 that road of trauma again. And that's kind of 00:31:35.140 --> 00:31:38.039 like what I thought, okay, that road of trauma 00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:41.920 is those brain cells being used too much. And 00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:45.240 that creates damage to the brain cell. But the 00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:47.680 more I looked at it, they said that the TBI is. 00:31:48.730 --> 00:31:53.630 what kickstarts that and whatnot. So you mentioned 00:31:53.630 --> 00:31:55.750 playing football in college. What were you studying? 00:31:56.730 --> 00:32:02.869 I studied sports management. So sports management 00:32:02.869 --> 00:32:07.369 was what I stopped on. I was originally business, 00:32:07.490 --> 00:32:10.470 and I was like, this is too much. I'm not going 00:32:10.470 --> 00:32:14.369 to be a businessman. That's not my path. So I 00:32:14.369 --> 00:32:16.130 switched from business to sports management. 00:32:16.150 --> 00:32:20.549 I was like, I can do that. What's funny about 00:32:20.549 --> 00:32:24.289 that was my senior thesis of sports management 00:32:24.289 --> 00:32:28.049 with my professor, I wrote a paper on the benefits 00:32:28.049 --> 00:32:33.690 of marijuana and neurological diseases like Alzheimer's, 00:32:33.690 --> 00:32:38.869 Parkinson's, and dementia, PTSD, because I wanted 00:32:38.869 --> 00:32:40.789 to go to the military when I graduated college. 00:32:41.589 --> 00:32:45.089 Because it popped into my head for the military 00:32:45.089 --> 00:32:47.650 is because I was recruited by... The Citadel 00:32:47.650 --> 00:32:51.670 College, they came and got me out of class. This 00:32:51.670 --> 00:32:54.430 big giant dude came and got me out. He was talking 00:32:54.430 --> 00:32:56.609 about football and everything. He says, well, 00:32:56.690 --> 00:32:58.549 we practice at 4 o 'clock in the morning. I was 00:32:58.549 --> 00:33:02.970 like, you do what? You practice at 4 o 'clock? 00:33:02.990 --> 00:33:05.309 He said, we practice at 4 to 6, and then you 00:33:05.309 --> 00:33:07.730 get dressed. You go PT before class. I was like, 00:33:07.789 --> 00:33:12.609 I'm 18. There's no way my mind is even motivated 00:33:12.609 --> 00:33:16.019 enough to get up to do that. But the Citadel 00:33:16.019 --> 00:33:17.640 came and talked to me, and that's kind of where 00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:19.920 I was like, I can go into the military after 00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:23.799 college. So PTSD was one of the things that I 00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:27.920 talked about as far as how cannabis can help 00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:31.019 with that. And then the last thing was cancer 00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:34.259 treatments. So I wrote a paper on it, a senior 00:33:34.259 --> 00:33:37.460 thesis. I handed it to my professor, and my professor 00:33:37.460 --> 00:33:40.299 was like, this is a very good paper. He said, 00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:44.740 you might want to continue researching. those 00:33:44.740 --> 00:33:46.359 things, the correlation between those two. And 00:33:46.359 --> 00:33:47.480 I was just like, I'm just trying to graduate 00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:50.619 college. I'm not, I'm not, I'm just trying to 00:33:50.619 --> 00:33:52.200 write a good paper and graduate college. I'm 00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:54.119 not even thinking about that. And now it's come 00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:56.940 around full circle to where that seems to be 00:33:56.940 --> 00:34:00.480 what I need to be focusing on. You know what 00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:02.180 I mean? To try and help people that have mental 00:34:02.180 --> 00:34:04.420 health issues in the fire service, in the military, 00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:06.599 police officers, I guess you could say first 00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:11.119 responders and military. i had a i need to send 00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:14.119 it to you i had a guest on um or two i had page 00:34:14.119 --> 00:34:18.440 figgy who was the uh the mother of um charlotte 00:34:18.440 --> 00:34:20.860 so that charlotte's web with the cbd story that 00:34:20.860 --> 00:34:23.559 was her daughter but then i also had dr ben a 00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:26.300 bonnie goldstein who i think she's in california 00:34:26.300 --> 00:34:30.360 but she treats cancer patients with um marijuana 00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:34.539 so with um THC specifically. So, you know, Paige's 00:34:34.539 --> 00:34:37.619 story is pure CBD. Bonnie is actually THC. But 00:34:37.619 --> 00:34:39.980 like you said, there are all these diseases where 00:34:39.980 --> 00:34:42.880 it's incredibly effective. And even things like 00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:44.619 bulimia and anorexia, where you're trying to 00:34:44.619 --> 00:34:47.099 get people to eat again, you know, and then the 00:34:47.099 --> 00:34:49.699 chemo treatments that the THC is giving people 00:34:49.699 --> 00:34:51.500 an appetite and they want to eat. So now for 00:34:51.500 --> 00:34:54.820 you, you're nourishing the body again. But as 00:34:54.820 --> 00:34:56.820 we touched on earlier, both of these are vilified. 00:34:57.320 --> 00:34:59.460 but yet they are incredibly therapeutic. Now, 00:34:59.480 --> 00:35:01.940 I don't like THC. I don't like the high or any 00:35:01.940 --> 00:35:03.760 of that stuff, so it's not even the drug that 00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:06.519 I would be advocating for for personal experience. 00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:09.719 But when you hear it helps other people and is 00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:13.039 so safe in the same time, why would you not be 00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:16.039 making it as available as possible for anyone 00:35:16.039 --> 00:35:20.320 to use therapeutically? That's my question because, 00:35:20.460 --> 00:35:25.079 like... And so I looked at it for anyone, the 00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:26.619 people that reached out to me when I was doing 00:35:26.619 --> 00:35:29.699 my CBD studies, they wanted it for pain management 00:35:29.699 --> 00:35:33.619 and sleep. And I was like, so PTSD wasn't even 00:35:33.619 --> 00:35:37.579 a thought process when they were initially asking 00:35:37.579 --> 00:35:40.679 me about CBD. And I was like, okay, so let's 00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:43.500 focus in on sleep. Let's focus in on pain management 00:35:43.500 --> 00:35:47.500 and sleep. And I'm just like, the only way, after 00:35:47.500 --> 00:35:50.579 watching it, the only way you can even get access 00:35:50.579 --> 00:35:54.079 to this stuff. is if you're inactive or you're 00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:57.880 retired because it's illegal you know and it's 00:35:57.880 --> 00:36:01.019 like that doesn't help us now like he's like 00:36:01.019 --> 00:36:03.860 i said you want me to lay my life on the line 00:36:03.860 --> 00:36:07.519 every shift but when i look to do something to 00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:09.719 help myself it's like no you can't do that it's 00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:11.840 like okay i'll just sit here and suffer for the 00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:14.280 next 20 years until i retire and then i'll go 00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:17.099 get the help i need and i'm like there's got 00:36:17.099 --> 00:36:19.159 to be a different way to go about it whether 00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:23.699 it's education Whether it's rescheduling, I don't 00:36:23.699 --> 00:36:25.420 know what that is, but there's got to be a different 00:36:25.420 --> 00:36:30.440 way to go about introducing those things to first 00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:34.400 responders and military. The way VETS is doing 00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:36.960 with Marcus and those guys, they're doing it 00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:40.059 very good. I want to get the fire service on 00:36:40.059 --> 00:36:42.519 board with that to kind of just be like, yes, 00:36:42.579 --> 00:36:45.420 it helps all of us. Yeah, it helps them. They 00:36:45.420 --> 00:36:48.619 went and fought overseas and fought wars and 00:36:48.619 --> 00:36:50.929 away from their families. I'm away from my family 00:36:50.929 --> 00:36:55.110 too. And the trauma of the things we've seen 00:36:55.110 --> 00:36:58.869 has the same effects. They're getting help. And 00:36:58.869 --> 00:37:01.530 I'm sure it can help us in the long run because 00:37:01.530 --> 00:37:05.710 firefighters commit suicide. Firefighters, that 00:37:05.710 --> 00:37:09.369 was one of the things that really, that was one 00:37:09.369 --> 00:37:12.570 of the stories from college. So like when I was 00:37:12.570 --> 00:37:16.690 in college, we had a guy, he was a swimmer. So 00:37:16.690 --> 00:37:20.340 my roommate. uh was best friends with him that 00:37:20.340 --> 00:37:23.559 guy ended up killing himself and we went to the 00:37:23.559 --> 00:37:27.440 funeral and i don't know if you i don't know 00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:28.980 how i don't know how this resonates with you 00:37:28.980 --> 00:37:33.019 but bagpipes at funerals it kills me it breaks 00:37:33.019 --> 00:37:35.619 me down the bells when they ring the bell and 00:37:35.619 --> 00:37:39.380 the bagpipes at funerals dropped me because when 00:37:39.380 --> 00:37:41.420 i was at that funeral for the guy that killed 00:37:41.420 --> 00:37:44.260 himself in college when when his casket i still 00:37:44.260 --> 00:37:47.250 remember it vividly When his casket hit the concrete 00:37:47.250 --> 00:37:49.670 to go into the cemetery, the guy started playing 00:37:49.670 --> 00:37:51.769 the bagpipes. And I broke down because I was 00:37:51.769 --> 00:37:54.389 like, that's something I've never experienced. 00:37:54.750 --> 00:37:57.289 And then I become a firefighter and go to Salisbury 00:37:57.289 --> 00:38:00.929 where they had two LODDs, which was Justin Monroe 00:38:00.929 --> 00:38:04.210 and Victor Eisler. And they'd have the memorial 00:38:04.210 --> 00:38:07.769 for them every year. And the bagpipes are played. 00:38:07.849 --> 00:38:12.050 It just keeps on resonating. That bagpipe sound 00:38:12.050 --> 00:38:15.110 resonates in my head. Every time I think about 00:38:15.110 --> 00:38:19.010 it, LODD or anything like that. I think I wrote 00:38:19.010 --> 00:38:23.329 about it in One More Light. When I was a lifeguard 00:38:23.329 --> 00:38:25.730 in London, there was a guy, this is pre -fire 00:38:25.730 --> 00:38:27.510 service. There was a guy that used to practice 00:38:27.510 --> 00:38:29.630 the bad pipes on Hampstead Heath, which is a 00:38:29.630 --> 00:38:32.070 big park in North London, where I'd lifeguard 00:38:32.070 --> 00:38:34.690 on the ponds and in the pool. And it was cool. 00:38:34.869 --> 00:38:37.610 You'd walk to work and you'd hear this guy playing 00:38:37.610 --> 00:38:39.610 these tunes. You're like, oh, that's nice. And 00:38:39.610 --> 00:38:41.429 then you go off to work and then you become a 00:38:41.429 --> 00:38:44.570 firefighter. And, you know, six funerals later, 00:38:44.829 --> 00:38:47.750 they're like, I cannot hear bagpipes anymore. 00:38:47.929 --> 00:38:49.369 I just can't. I mean, not to the point where 00:38:49.369 --> 00:38:50.730 I'm triggered and, you know, I'm going to burst 00:38:50.730 --> 00:38:53.349 into tears. But people are like, oh, we got the, 00:38:53.469 --> 00:38:55.650 you know, firefight memorial. I'm like, OK, good. 00:38:55.690 --> 00:38:58.489 Have fun. Because, I mean, it's just twofold 00:38:58.489 --> 00:39:00.710 for me. It's firstly, I don't want to hear bloody 00:39:00.710 --> 00:39:03.329 bagpipes anymore because, you know, it's the 00:39:03.329 --> 00:39:05.530 wailing of the families in the last call, like 00:39:05.530 --> 00:39:07.989 you said. But the other thing is with some of 00:39:07.989 --> 00:39:10.250 these memorials is when you are, as we're talking 00:39:10.250 --> 00:39:13.900 about. When there are solutions and there's a 00:39:13.900 --> 00:39:16.860 resistance to the solutions, now some of these 00:39:16.860 --> 00:39:20.159 memorials may be angry because we're so good 00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:22.599 at putting on class Bs and bringing on the honor 00:39:22.599 --> 00:39:24.800 guard and playing the drums and the bagpipes. 00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:26.679 But then when you come to them and say, well, 00:39:26.699 --> 00:39:29.360 what about CBD? What about 2472? What about, 00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:31.679 you know, clean cab, all these things like, oh, 00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:33.260 we don't want to hear any of that. We just want 00:39:33.260 --> 00:39:35.480 to be really good at burying our people. And 00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:38.280 that I've realized recently actually pisses me 00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:41.219 off. So where it used to be nostalgic and honorable, 00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:44.559 now it just makes me angry. Yeah, because like 00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:46.599 you said, you're sitting here and you've already 00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:51.820 seen so many people die from this job, whether 00:39:51.820 --> 00:39:56.019 it's military, fire, like any of that. You've 00:39:56.019 --> 00:39:58.260 seen it and you hear the bagpipes and you know 00:39:58.260 --> 00:40:00.579 that there's a solution. You know that there's 00:40:00.579 --> 00:40:03.480 a way to help us. And therapy sometimes, yes, 00:40:03.519 --> 00:40:06.559 therapy is good. Therapy is a maintenance. To 00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:10.300 me, from what I've noticed, Ibogaine and DMT, 00:40:10.420 --> 00:40:14.659 that's what's going to open you up and tell you 00:40:14.659 --> 00:40:17.739 what your problem is. Therapy forces you to talk 00:40:17.739 --> 00:40:21.460 about it. Actually, meditating and mindfulness 00:40:21.460 --> 00:40:27.679 makes you hone that skill of how to continue 00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:31.300 to change that circuitry in your brain to get 00:40:31.300 --> 00:40:37.039 better. just the kickback from my research. It 00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:40.000 was just like, so it halted me. That's why me 00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:42.679 and you hadn't got back in touch for so long 00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:45.679 because it halted all my research. The episode 00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:50.199 that I called you on was, I can't find it anymore 00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:52.940 because I went on Apple. I went on Apple and 00:40:52.940 --> 00:40:55.480 it stopped. It started like three, episode three 00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:58.460 something. And I was like, I know we talked before 00:40:58.460 --> 00:41:01.070 that, before episode three something. was when 00:41:01.070 --> 00:41:02.590 I reached out to you. I think it was like 150 00:41:02.590 --> 00:41:05.269 or something like that. And I was like, where's 00:41:05.269 --> 00:41:07.489 the rest of your episodes? And I couldn't find 00:41:07.489 --> 00:41:09.570 them. So I was going to go back and look again 00:41:09.570 --> 00:41:11.389 to see if I could find that doctor. It was a 00:41:11.389 --> 00:41:16.329 sleep doctor. And his episode... It might have 00:41:16.329 --> 00:41:18.949 been. Yeah, because on the website, you can go 00:41:18.949 --> 00:41:21.150 all the way back. A lot of these podcast apps, 00:41:21.269 --> 00:41:24.030 it's only like 300, 500, and then it stops. So 00:41:24.030 --> 00:41:26.170 this is why I do the repost of the bonus episodes 00:41:26.170 --> 00:41:27.909 now to put them back on the top of the pile. 00:41:28.590 --> 00:41:31.170 Yeah, because I remember listening to that episode 00:41:31.170 --> 00:41:33.710 and it was right in the middle of my research 00:41:33.710 --> 00:41:35.710 and I heard the whole thing. I had just started 00:41:35.710 --> 00:41:39.650 narrowing it down to being sleep. Sleep deprivation 00:41:39.650 --> 00:41:43.190 was the thing that was killing us or hurting 00:41:43.190 --> 00:41:46.690 us and destroying us. And I listened to that 00:41:46.690 --> 00:41:48.150 episode and I was like, man, that was a good 00:41:48.150 --> 00:41:52.050 episode. And the things he was saying, I understood 00:41:52.050 --> 00:41:54.230 exactly what was going on. That's when I reached 00:41:54.230 --> 00:41:57.070 out to you and we talked about it and whatnot. 00:41:58.529 --> 00:42:00.170 Well, let's talk about your journey into the 00:42:00.170 --> 00:42:02.170 fire service. So you're doing sports management. 00:42:02.230 --> 00:42:04.530 You're playing college ball. How does that lead 00:42:04.530 --> 00:42:07.969 you into the fire department? So when I finished 00:42:07.969 --> 00:42:10.550 up at Catawba, I went to Catawba College. It 00:42:10.550 --> 00:42:14.289 was a Division II football program. Finished 00:42:14.289 --> 00:42:17.989 up there, and I was in the work. I was trying 00:42:17.989 --> 00:42:20.670 to find a job. So I was going and doing desk 00:42:20.670 --> 00:42:24.210 jobs and communications centers. I was like, 00:42:24.269 --> 00:42:26.650 this is terrible. I do not want to sit behind 00:42:26.650 --> 00:42:29.510 this desk. and put a suit and tie on every day 00:42:29.510 --> 00:42:32.369 so then i ended up getting a job just a real 00:42:32.369 --> 00:42:34.449 quick job at the daycare that was behind the 00:42:34.449 --> 00:42:38.030 catawba and it was funny because some of the 00:42:38.030 --> 00:42:39.550 moms would come in to pick up their kids and 00:42:39.550 --> 00:42:41.929 i'm this giant dude holding a baby and they're 00:42:41.929 --> 00:42:44.570 just like oh my gosh i'm like they're fine they're 00:42:44.570 --> 00:42:49.449 like a little baby but um the head of hr in salisbury 00:42:49.449 --> 00:42:54.230 reached out to me and the reason i chose fire 00:42:54.230 --> 00:42:55.690 department was because when i was sitting at 00:42:55.690 --> 00:42:58.039 home before When I stopped doing the whole interviews 00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:00.960 for desk jobs, I put an application at Spencer 00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:03.820 PD, an application at Spencer Fire Department. 00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:06.539 And I said, whoever calls first, that's what 00:43:06.539 --> 00:43:08.480 I'm going to do. And I'm just sitting there waiting, 00:43:08.539 --> 00:43:10.079 waiting, waiting. The fire department calls first. 00:43:10.719 --> 00:43:14.059 And the chief there was a captain in Salisbury. 00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:15.980 And he says, hey, I think we're going to, he 00:43:15.980 --> 00:43:17.820 said, I think Salisbury is doing a live -in program. 00:43:18.739 --> 00:43:20.679 You should apply for it. I was like, all right. 00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:22.769 So I went ahead and applied for it. They reached 00:43:22.769 --> 00:43:24.309 back out to me, said they're not hiring anybody, 00:43:24.510 --> 00:43:27.050 but we are doing a live -in program at some point. 00:43:27.309 --> 00:43:30.090 We'll be in touch. So I continued to work at 00:43:30.090 --> 00:43:33.969 the daycare. And one day, my friend that was 00:43:33.969 --> 00:43:36.449 in HR called me, because her brother used to 00:43:36.449 --> 00:43:38.710 be a firefighter in Salisbury, calls me and says, 00:43:39.150 --> 00:43:41.690 hey, are you serious about being a firefighter? 00:43:41.690 --> 00:43:44.389 I was like, absolutely. She says, Chief Parnell 00:43:44.389 --> 00:43:46.989 wants to meet with you in 10 minutes. And I had 00:43:46.989 --> 00:43:51.400 to run home. It was a mad dash to run home. get 00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:53.920 dressed, get cleaned up to go to the fire station 00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:57.420 and sit down. So I get to the fire station. I 00:43:57.420 --> 00:43:59.340 sit down with Chief and all the Chiefs, and they 00:43:59.340 --> 00:44:01.420 talk about it. And I tell them my background 00:44:01.420 --> 00:44:03.500 as a football player and wanting to serve the 00:44:03.500 --> 00:44:06.699 community. You know, the normal things you want 00:44:06.699 --> 00:44:09.420 to do as a firefighter. And they said, all right, 00:44:09.460 --> 00:44:12.340 well, we'll get back in touch with you. So they 00:44:12.340 --> 00:44:15.139 send me through the live -in program, and I end 00:44:15.139 --> 00:44:17.900 up going to Concord Fire Department for their 00:44:17.900 --> 00:44:22.900 recruit school. James, I hate running. Running 00:44:22.900 --> 00:44:28.400 is the absolute worst thing ever. And what's 00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:30.659 funny about it is that was the only thing they 00:44:30.659 --> 00:44:33.340 did was run. And I was like, I'm tired of this. 00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:35.840 But I pushed through it. I got through it. Finished 00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:38.079 recruit school and I started Salisbury for four 00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:42.800 and a half years. That was, like I said, it was 00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:44.739 an old school. It was an old school department, 00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:46.860 old school guys teaching us how to be firefighters. 00:44:47.179 --> 00:44:49.900 We had a bunch of young guys that were. Heavy 00:44:49.900 --> 00:44:53.760 hitters. And we fought a lot of fire in Salisbury. 00:44:54.039 --> 00:44:56.280 We learned a lot in Salisbury because we trained 00:44:56.280 --> 00:45:01.380 all the time. And then I made driver. I was getting 00:45:01.380 --> 00:45:03.179 ready to make lieutenant. And then I ended up 00:45:03.179 --> 00:45:06.980 going to Charlotte. And once again, James, I 00:45:06.980 --> 00:45:10.480 hate running. I hate running. It was the worst. 00:45:11.039 --> 00:45:15.860 But they ran a lot. And I was the slowest. I 00:45:15.860 --> 00:45:19.170 was the slowest runner in my recruit class. Because 00:45:19.170 --> 00:45:21.489 I'm just a big person, I was like, yo, I'm tired 00:45:21.489 --> 00:45:23.769 of this. But I finished. You had to run a mile 00:45:23.769 --> 00:45:28.150 and a half in under 12 minutes. That's a decent 00:45:28.150 --> 00:45:33.949 pace. That's a real fast pace for me. So I'm 00:45:33.949 --> 00:45:37.550 sitting here, and it gets to the last time, and 00:45:37.550 --> 00:45:40.250 we're doing apparatus hydraulics. And the chief 00:45:40.250 --> 00:45:41.929 that was down there, Lance Folk, he comes to 00:45:41.929 --> 00:45:43.949 me. And he's a scary dude. He comes to me. He 00:45:43.949 --> 00:45:46.840 says. I'm on the turntable doing the aerial. 00:45:46.920 --> 00:45:48.340 He says, you already know how to do all that 00:45:48.340 --> 00:45:50.820 shit. He said, get down here. And he takes me 00:45:50.820 --> 00:45:53.219 into the tower classroom. He's like, he's just 00:45:53.219 --> 00:45:55.300 staring at me. And I'm like, oh, I'm in trouble. 00:45:55.480 --> 00:45:58.380 I've messed up somewhere. And he says, you got 00:45:58.380 --> 00:46:00.739 to run. And I was like, I know, chief. He said, 00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:02.739 no, you got to run. I don't want to fire you. 00:46:02.780 --> 00:46:04.559 I was like, I don't want you to fire me either. 00:46:04.659 --> 00:46:10.599 Like, I'll run. So I kind of crash course myself 00:46:10.599 --> 00:46:14.199 in running. And I ran miles. over over trained 00:46:14.199 --> 00:46:16.400 running to the point where i was like i'm about 00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:19.420 to i'm about to lose it if i have to run anymore 00:46:19.420 --> 00:46:25.760 but um on the day i passed my pfq we're walking 00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:27.619 down the bubble come out my training captain 00:46:27.619 --> 00:46:30.340 was like i don't want you to exert yourself too 00:46:30.340 --> 00:46:32.980 much you got to put all you got into that run 00:46:32.980 --> 00:46:35.179 that's that approved that's that hey you got 00:46:35.179 --> 00:46:37.159 to do this and i was like i gotta do this that 00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:40.239 was that identity change of i have to run so 00:46:40.239 --> 00:46:44.420 we get down there and we're running and I'm good, 00:46:44.519 --> 00:46:46.679 and all of a sudden I can feel it. There's like 00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:49.500 this little stab in my rib will start hurting, 00:46:49.559 --> 00:46:51.280 and I'll start doing this right here while I'm 00:46:51.280 --> 00:46:53.579 running, and then I'll start leaning over, and 00:46:53.579 --> 00:46:56.139 I was like, oh my gosh, I'm about to die. And 00:46:56.139 --> 00:47:01.800 this is the part of recruit school that I want 00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:03.780 to make sure that anybody else that goes to recruit 00:47:03.780 --> 00:47:06.900 school keeps to their heart. The dudes and the 00:47:06.900 --> 00:47:08.639 guys and girls you go through recruit school 00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:12.239 with, that is your rock. those people are going 00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:14.539 to push you through everything. And it translates 00:47:14.539 --> 00:47:18.420 to on the truck, your company, your crew, that's 00:47:18.420 --> 00:47:23.539 your rock. You lean on those guys. So the last 00:47:23.539 --> 00:47:27.679 lap I had, I was about to stop running. I was 00:47:27.679 --> 00:47:30.360 literally, I was like, I'm going to quit. And 00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:33.280 I was like, but I felt two heads. So two of my 00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:36.139 guys in my recruit schools, Richard Evans and 00:47:36.139 --> 00:47:38.500 Adam Starnes grabbed my shirt. They grabbed my 00:47:38.500 --> 00:47:41.269 shoulder and they pushed me. And they started 00:47:41.269 --> 00:47:44.230 sprinting. And so as I'm running, like I'm almost 00:47:44.230 --> 00:47:47.250 bounding and they're pushing me as every step 00:47:47.250 --> 00:47:49.929 that they can. And I'm like, if it wasn't for 00:47:49.929 --> 00:47:52.190 those dudes, I wouldn't have passed. You know, 00:47:52.210 --> 00:47:53.690 if it wasn't for the rest of the guys in the 00:47:53.690 --> 00:47:56.590 class, because we were class 100. So it was kind 00:47:56.590 --> 00:47:59.030 of like a spotlight on us because we're the 100th 00:47:59.030 --> 00:48:03.409 recruit class in Charlotte. And if it wasn't 00:48:03.409 --> 00:48:05.289 for those guys, I would have stopped running. 00:48:05.769 --> 00:48:08.130 Everybody around me, my crew, my whole group 00:48:08.130 --> 00:48:11.030 stayed with me. until I got to the end and I 00:48:11.030 --> 00:48:14.110 sprinted out everything I had to get to the end. 00:48:14.250 --> 00:48:16.150 And I was like, oh, my gosh. And I finished it. 00:48:16.170 --> 00:48:18.469 I think I had like 11 .58. I was like, I'm good. 00:48:19.389 --> 00:48:23.329 I'm good to go. But that's one of the things 00:48:23.329 --> 00:48:28.289 about recruit school, about basic training. The 00:48:28.289 --> 00:48:31.050 people that you go through that stuff with, they 00:48:31.050 --> 00:48:33.889 are your brothers. You have to keep them close 00:48:33.889 --> 00:48:36.349 because they're going to help you get through 00:48:36.349 --> 00:48:40.340 all that stuff. You want to know some more about 00:48:40.340 --> 00:48:44.440 my career in Charlotte? Yeah, go for it. So once 00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:46.239 I get out of recruit school in Charlotte, once 00:48:46.239 --> 00:48:49.480 again, another running story, which like I told 00:48:49.480 --> 00:48:52.159 you, I hate running. After you get off probation, 00:48:52.579 --> 00:48:55.079 you have to go back down and do a final PFQ, 00:48:55.260 --> 00:49:00.500 which is a final performance fitness test to 00:49:00.500 --> 00:49:03.159 get off of probation. So I go back down there. 00:49:03.260 --> 00:49:05.260 My training captain came and brought us down 00:49:05.260 --> 00:49:07.519 there a month early and was like, all right, 00:49:07.539 --> 00:49:09.619 we're going to go in September. Or we're going 00:49:09.619 --> 00:49:13.000 to go in, I think he said September. And then 00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:17.599 October was my final day to do it. So I go down 00:49:17.599 --> 00:49:21.000 there and I'm running. I feel like I'm doing 00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:23.300 good. And he looks at me, pulls me to the side 00:49:23.300 --> 00:49:24.639 and says, you ain't going to make it. I was like, 00:49:24.699 --> 00:49:27.380 don't do this to me. Don't do this to me. Don't 00:49:27.380 --> 00:49:29.239 take me off of this run. I'm going to make it. 00:49:29.300 --> 00:49:31.380 He says, you ain't going to make it. Go get ready. 00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:33.880 Go run some more and get better. So I had a month 00:49:33.880 --> 00:49:38.829 to prepare and get ready to run. One of my friends, 00:49:38.909 --> 00:49:41.469 he was a retired battalion chief in Charlotte, 00:49:41.550 --> 00:49:44.230 and I knew him from one of my volunteer departments 00:49:44.230 --> 00:49:47.650 in Rowan County. Dale Brown, I ran with him, 00:49:47.690 --> 00:49:51.769 and he tried to kill me. He tried to kill me 00:49:51.769 --> 00:49:55.590 a couple times because, I mean, we ran a lot, 00:49:55.650 --> 00:50:01.190 but he prepared me for that final PFQ. So the 00:50:01.190 --> 00:50:03.269 division chief of training was down there. He 00:50:03.269 --> 00:50:08.130 was doing my PFQ with me. Like I said, it's a 00:50:08.130 --> 00:50:12.030 funny story with me and running. So I do my PFQ. 00:50:12.050 --> 00:50:13.449 We go down there. He says, you got to make them 00:50:13.449 --> 00:50:15.710 run in 15 minutes. And I was like, I can do that. 00:50:15.929 --> 00:50:18.730 You know, I think I can do that. So I start running. 00:50:19.889 --> 00:50:22.730 But as I'm going down and coming back, I have 00:50:22.730 --> 00:50:25.250 somebody, I have a training captain pacing me. 00:50:25.269 --> 00:50:27.369 So he's behind me. As long as he's behind me, 00:50:27.449 --> 00:50:29.849 I'm ahead of pace. He started getting closer 00:50:29.849 --> 00:50:32.590 and closer. I'm like, I got to speed up. So I'd 00:50:32.590 --> 00:50:34.050 speed up some more. He started getting closer 00:50:34.050 --> 00:50:35.469 and closer. I'm like, I'm going to get fired. 00:50:36.059 --> 00:50:41.460 Well, my current engine captain, my training 00:50:41.460 --> 00:50:43.960 captain, and my battalion chief were all at the 00:50:43.960 --> 00:50:46.320 training academy for chief officer development 00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:50.260 class. And I'm like, okay, well, my battalion 00:50:50.260 --> 00:50:52.739 chief goes and gets my training captain and my 00:50:52.739 --> 00:50:55.619 actual captain and says, hey, ship's about to 00:50:55.619 --> 00:50:57.539 get fired. Y 'all need to come on down here. 00:50:57.659 --> 00:51:00.119 And he's like, what? So my training captain, 00:51:00.260 --> 00:51:03.900 he's crazy. He's crazy. He comes down there in 00:51:03.900 --> 00:51:06.599 his blue shirt. and his uh his blue shirt and 00:51:06.599 --> 00:51:09.519 everything that he's in class and he takes another 00:51:09.519 --> 00:51:12.280 training captain's shoes running shoes and he 00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:15.360 runs me down and i can hear him so i'm running 00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:17.800 i hear i hear feet and i'm like somebody's running 00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:20.159 real fast and i look back and it's my training 00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:22.280 captain he comes into my ear he's like ship you 00:51:22.280 --> 00:51:26.719 gotta run i was like okay so i run and i get 00:51:26.719 --> 00:51:29.099 back and i just start sprinting because i'm like 00:51:29.099 --> 00:51:32.179 i look up the division chief's walking toward 00:51:32.179 --> 00:51:35.199 he's running towards me to get me My training, 00:51:35.260 --> 00:51:37.300 my actual captain from the engine is coming to 00:51:37.300 --> 00:51:39.360 get me. And then my battalion, I'm like, so I'm 00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:42.320 about to get fired. I am running too slow. So 00:51:42.320 --> 00:51:44.980 I sprint to the end of the cone. I collapse. 00:51:45.059 --> 00:51:48.760 They show me, he's like 1340, 1348. He passed. 00:51:48.860 --> 00:51:52.519 And I was like, oh, running is the worst, the 00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:56.539 absolute worst thing ever. But it definitely 00:51:56.539 --> 00:52:00.840 pushes you to say. hey you're gonna if you if 00:52:00.840 --> 00:52:03.059 you want to get better or you know if you want 00:52:03.059 --> 00:52:05.159 to lose weight you want to get better go run 00:52:05.159 --> 00:52:07.699 that's the only way you're going to do it running 00:52:07.699 --> 00:52:10.559 well i like that too because you're talking about 00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:12.920 the camaraderie and i remember you know in the 00:52:12.920 --> 00:52:15.139 basic fire academy and some of the academies 00:52:15.139 --> 00:52:17.860 i have for departments It was that. I mean, if 00:52:17.860 --> 00:52:19.579 there was a person that wasn't prepared to put 00:52:19.579 --> 00:52:21.579 the effort in, then yeah, no one had any time 00:52:21.579 --> 00:52:24.400 for them. But anyone that was trying, and let's 00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:26.900 just say they weren't extremely strong in some 00:52:26.900 --> 00:52:28.539 of the strength events, or like you said, they 00:52:28.539 --> 00:52:33.599 weren't excelling in the endurance side. I remember 00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:35.599 over and over and over again, it was like, all 00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:36.960 right, well, then let's go get them. And the 00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:39.920 whole, you know, whatever it was, group or whatever 00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:42.340 the subsection was, we'd go back and, yeah, we'd 00:52:42.340 --> 00:52:44.300 all run with through them. And everyone has a 00:52:44.300 --> 00:52:48.219 bad day or, you know, a skill or an element of 00:52:48.219 --> 00:52:50.159 strength or endurance that they're not as good 00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:53.079 at. But there is no rock star on the fire service 00:52:53.079 --> 00:52:56.099 that just runs around on their own. Like it is 00:52:56.099 --> 00:52:59.599 a group event. It is a team. So I love that because 00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:01.360 that's how it should be. And then, you know, 00:53:01.380 --> 00:53:04.420 like I said, if someone just isn't. willing to 00:53:04.420 --> 00:53:06.059 put the time in or the heart isn't in it then 00:53:06.059 --> 00:53:07.719 yeah they will they will ring the bell and they 00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:10.000 won't be there anymore but if someone is trying 00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:12.980 and everyone can see they're trying i think the 00:53:12.980 --> 00:53:14.880 instructors like to see that too when everyone 00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:16.539 else wraps around them and like no we're not 00:53:16.539 --> 00:53:18.900 leaving you behind come on you can do this um 00:53:18.900 --> 00:53:20.760 i think that's what forces a good firefighter 00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:24.019 to be honest because that shows heart that shows 00:53:24.019 --> 00:53:26.300 that i can tell you to do something and you're 00:53:26.300 --> 00:53:29.059 gonna do it until it gets done you're not gonna 00:53:29.059 --> 00:53:30.960 half -ass it you're not gonna be like i don't 00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:33.469 feel like doing that i'm like hey He pushed through 00:53:33.469 --> 00:53:36.050 the run. He pushed through the recruit school. 00:53:36.510 --> 00:53:39.630 He'll push through this task that I asked. Yeah, 00:53:39.670 --> 00:53:43.710 exactly. That's a big thing for me is that time 00:53:43.710 --> 00:53:48.710 in recruit school. What made you go from one 00:53:48.710 --> 00:53:53.469 department to the other? This is the weirdest 00:53:53.469 --> 00:53:55.369 thing. You can go from one side to another, one 00:53:55.369 --> 00:54:00.010 extreme to the other. And that's one of the... 00:54:00.699 --> 00:54:03.179 unique parts about Charlotte but then you have 00:54:03.179 --> 00:54:07.039 the different places like the airport which is 00:54:07.039 --> 00:54:09.380 I'm a captain at the airport now so I made captain 00:54:09.380 --> 00:54:13.360 a few months ago and got stationed at the airport 00:54:13.360 --> 00:54:16.300 so I was at the airport when I started my career 00:54:16.300 --> 00:54:20.059 for six years then I went to engine 15 to drive 00:54:20.059 --> 00:54:22.800 for three and then I'm back at the airport as 00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:27.219 a captain and it's the slowest station in the 00:54:27.219 --> 00:54:30.219 city Station 41 is the slowest station in the 00:54:30.219 --> 00:54:32.780 city. So I went from the third busiest engine 00:54:32.780 --> 00:54:35.900 to the slowest station in the city. And it's 00:54:35.900 --> 00:54:39.079 like, gosh, you know, I went from not sleeping 00:54:39.079 --> 00:54:43.679 to sleeping all night. And it's such a dynamic 00:54:43.679 --> 00:54:47.320 thing that you can move around from one station 00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:50.960 to another and change the entire clientele you 00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:53.599 deal with in Charlotte. And it's a big city, 00:54:53.659 --> 00:54:58.030 too. I mean, going downtown has its perks. It 00:54:58.030 --> 00:55:04.550 has its perks, but it also has its, how do you 00:55:04.550 --> 00:55:08.530 say, challenges. So a lot of people that go downtown, 00:55:08.929 --> 00:55:11.409 they're ready for a challenge. They want to challenge 00:55:11.409 --> 00:55:14.590 themselves to learn standpipes, to learn elevators, 00:55:14.590 --> 00:55:18.570 to learn the grid system of the city. Especially 00:55:18.570 --> 00:55:23.010 for drivers, you're learning those streets in 00:55:23.010 --> 00:55:26.090 a certain way. to help you be a better driver 00:55:26.090 --> 00:55:28.929 downtown same thing works for the outskirts but 00:55:28.929 --> 00:55:31.269 downtown is just different when you sit there 00:55:31.269 --> 00:55:33.110 look at the grid and you're just like that's 00:55:33.110 --> 00:55:35.590 crazy and how tight it is you got to be a good 00:55:35.590 --> 00:55:39.730 driver to be down there anyway so yeah i think 00:55:39.730 --> 00:55:42.789 she was on queen street it was near the hornet 00:55:42.789 --> 00:55:44.289 stadium have i got that right with the horse 00:55:44.289 --> 00:55:47.030 play um But yeah, I was struck by, I mean, yeah, 00:55:47.070 --> 00:55:49.110 they were narrow. There was the train system, 00:55:49.190 --> 00:55:51.130 which again, you got to be careful not to get 00:55:51.130 --> 00:55:54.070 hit by a train down there. And then also there 00:55:54.070 --> 00:55:55.849 seemed to be a lot of homelessness too that I 00:55:55.849 --> 00:55:58.690 noticed. Yes. So there was a, there was a stretch 00:55:58.690 --> 00:56:01.090 where they had these, it was called tent city. 00:56:01.389 --> 00:56:03.230 It was right there in downtown. And I mean, they 00:56:03.230 --> 00:56:07.949 had, they had hundreds of tents set up and like, 00:56:07.969 --> 00:56:09.150 they had like, it was like a little community. 00:56:09.150 --> 00:56:11.289 They had like a mayor, a tent city. He would 00:56:11.289 --> 00:56:13.070 come around and everybody knew who he was. And 00:56:13.070 --> 00:56:16.960 it's just like, that's weird. But it was, it 00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:19.719 was weird that they had that, but then they ended 00:56:19.719 --> 00:56:21.280 up cleaning. They were trying to clean up that 00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:23.840 stuff. So they tore everything down and push 00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:25.900 everybody out to different parts of the city 00:56:25.900 --> 00:56:27.880 so that we can, so they can clean up downtown 00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:31.420 and whatnot. But there's a lot of homeless people 00:56:31.420 --> 00:56:34.719 that walk around, especially in the area where 00:56:34.719 --> 00:56:36.519 I was at 15, that we had a few homeless people 00:56:36.519 --> 00:56:38.380 that were, I mean, we knew their names. We knew 00:56:38.380 --> 00:56:39.800 their names. It was like, Hey, that's Heather. 00:56:39.880 --> 00:56:42.190 Oh, Hey, that's a. Oh, what do they call them? 00:56:42.210 --> 00:56:44.309 Shoeless Joe, all kinds of stuff. Just different 00:56:44.309 --> 00:56:46.269 things and names we have for these people because 00:56:46.269 --> 00:56:50.210 we see them all the time. There was one, it's 00:56:50.210 --> 00:56:52.469 funny because you talk about the, you know, the 00:56:52.469 --> 00:56:54.969 dangerous areas being blocks from the affluent 00:56:54.969 --> 00:56:56.769 areas. I had that in Orange County when I was 00:56:56.769 --> 00:56:58.170 there. And they talk about, you know, wrong side 00:56:58.170 --> 00:57:00.150 of the tracks. It was literally that Orange Avenue. 00:57:00.289 --> 00:57:02.889 One side was one of our most dangerous, you know, 00:57:02.909 --> 00:57:05.230 poverty stricken areas. And then the other side 00:57:05.230 --> 00:57:07.349 were million dollar homes on the lake. And our 00:57:07.349 --> 00:57:10.829 first use spanned both those. But the next first 00:57:10.829 --> 00:57:13.530 you over, yeah, one of the homeless women that 00:57:13.530 --> 00:57:15.469 we go on all the time was a former nurse and 00:57:15.469 --> 00:57:17.610 she got addicted to opioids. You know what I 00:57:17.610 --> 00:57:22.969 mean? So this is what's so sad is we tar everyone 00:57:22.969 --> 00:57:24.829 with the same brush when it comes to, oh, they're 00:57:24.829 --> 00:57:27.050 bums, they're homeless. But these are all, you 00:57:27.050 --> 00:57:29.190 know, people that back to one of your previous 00:57:29.190 --> 00:57:31.789 jobs, like when you were in daycare and all those 00:57:31.789 --> 00:57:33.949 preschoolers were everywhere, you weren't looking 00:57:33.949 --> 00:57:35.809 at them going, oh, well, there's a junkie and 00:57:35.809 --> 00:57:37.389 there's a bum and there's a crackhead and there's 00:57:37.389 --> 00:57:40.769 a hooker. No, they were all. Little kids. And 00:57:40.769 --> 00:57:43.070 yet, for some reason, they become dehumanized 00:57:43.070 --> 00:57:45.170 when they're unhoused. And now they're just a 00:57:45.170 --> 00:57:48.909 nuisance. What about positive solutions? What 00:57:48.909 --> 00:57:51.289 is Charlotte trying to do to actually, rather 00:57:51.289 --> 00:57:54.130 than move them on, actually rehabilitate, you 00:57:54.130 --> 00:57:56.090 know, overcome addiction, find people housing? 00:57:57.170 --> 00:57:59.769 There's some affordable housing that goes up. 00:57:59.789 --> 00:58:02.349 Like every time something goes up, a certain 00:58:02.349 --> 00:58:05.570 section of it is dedicated to affordable housing 00:58:05.570 --> 00:58:08.900 to help people just have somewhere to stay. And 00:58:08.900 --> 00:58:12.760 that was one of the things that a lot of people 00:58:12.760 --> 00:58:15.340 don't understand. Like when you run to like newer 00:58:15.340 --> 00:58:18.300 apartment buildings, knowing at some point this 00:58:18.300 --> 00:58:19.980 apartment building is going to be run down. At 00:58:19.980 --> 00:58:23.380 some point, this place is not going to look the 00:58:23.380 --> 00:58:25.739 same because they're going to be putting people 00:58:25.739 --> 00:58:27.900 in there that just, it's like, not that they 00:58:27.900 --> 00:58:31.219 don't care. It's just, it is what it is to them, 00:58:31.300 --> 00:58:34.039 you know? So they have some of that. There's 00:58:34.039 --> 00:58:37.460 a couple of homeless shelters. in different parts 00:58:37.460 --> 00:58:40.840 of the city, which, yeah, you get tired of running 00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:42.239 those too. You're like, oh, we're going to the 00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:44.159 homeless shelter again. One of the men's shelter, 00:58:44.280 --> 00:58:48.940 one of the women's shelter. But there are programs 00:58:48.940 --> 00:58:52.380 that are helping people get into those shelters 00:58:52.380 --> 00:58:55.139 and get spots at night when it's getting cold 00:58:55.139 --> 00:58:57.679 or it's time to go. Because I've always told, 00:58:57.840 --> 00:59:01.179 one of our jokes we had on the truck is, if you 00:59:01.179 --> 00:59:03.820 put me out here with these people in the streets, 00:59:03.960 --> 00:59:10.940 I'd die. I am not. They are tactical bums, I 00:59:10.940 --> 00:59:13.840 guess you could say. I don't know how they survive 00:59:13.840 --> 00:59:19.880 these harsh conditions, but they always continue 00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:26.039 to survive. I asked the question to myself multiple 00:59:26.039 --> 00:59:29.739 times driving through intersections at the Plaza 00:59:29.739 --> 00:59:33.480 and Eastway. I'm just like, I hope that none 00:59:33.480 --> 00:59:36.530 of my kids end up out here somebody's daughter 00:59:36.530 --> 00:59:39.769 or somebody's son or brother nephew or uncle 00:59:39.769 --> 00:59:44.610 is out here walking around either high on drugs 00:59:44.610 --> 00:59:48.570 just anything it's rough and i'm just like i'll 00:59:48.570 --> 00:59:51.690 make sure i take care of my children and give 00:59:51.690 --> 00:59:54.730 them that don't be that way you know but also 00:59:54.730 --> 00:59:57.650 don't don't necessarily turn your back completely 00:59:57.650 --> 01:00:00.730 on them like there's they're people too and that's 01:00:00.730 --> 01:00:02.969 that's the hardest part is when you get busy 01:00:02.969 --> 01:00:06.090 like that your humanity kind of just, you kind 01:00:06.090 --> 01:00:08.349 of take it down because you're just like, I'm 01:00:08.349 --> 01:00:11.210 here, it's another bum, go get a job. Or I'm 01:00:11.210 --> 01:00:13.269 here again, it's another bum, you know, get clean. 01:00:13.809 --> 01:00:17.090 And the more you run it, the like, you get almost 01:00:17.090 --> 01:00:20.750 calloused to it. You know, that's the sad part 01:00:20.750 --> 01:00:23.610 about how many times we run bums or how many 01:00:23.610 --> 01:00:26.329 times we run certain people is you get calloused. 01:00:26.329 --> 01:00:28.190 You're just like, all right, get up. You know, 01:00:28.210 --> 01:00:31.179 you're not really giving them that care. that 01:00:31.179 --> 01:00:33.159 you would want if you were in another position 01:00:33.159 --> 01:00:36.019 you know what i mean yeah no exactly and then 01:00:36.019 --> 01:00:37.860 you know personally you look at we are literally 01:00:37.860 --> 01:00:39.679 one of the most affluent nations on the planet 01:00:39.679 --> 01:00:42.719 so the fact we have homelessness full stop is 01:00:42.719 --> 01:00:45.980 bad but then on top of that i think it's 10 of 01:00:45.980 --> 01:00:48.800 our homeless are veterans so those are people 01:00:48.800 --> 01:00:50.760 that served in the military that we just discarded 01:00:50.760 --> 01:00:54.139 i'd be curious to see how many were doctors nurses 01:00:54.139 --> 01:00:56.980 firefighters etc you know corrections other people 01:00:56.980 --> 01:01:00.329 that served But yeah, I mean, when we have the 01:01:00.329 --> 01:01:04.389 resources and if we proactively invested in society 01:01:04.389 --> 01:01:07.369 and gave addiction counseling, gave mental health 01:01:07.369 --> 01:01:10.090 counseling, focus more on, like you said, housing, 01:01:10.230 --> 01:01:13.650 but in a way that it empowers someone to stand 01:01:13.650 --> 01:01:16.090 on their own feet, you know, to have pride in 01:01:16.090 --> 01:01:19.250 where they live, not destroy it. You know, we 01:01:19.250 --> 01:01:22.679 would make a huge dent. get every single person 01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:25.039 no but i mean that's the argument in america 01:01:25.039 --> 01:01:26.679 it's like well look it didn't work for that guy 01:01:26.679 --> 01:01:28.780 so it doesn't work it's like well but that's 01:01:28.780 --> 01:01:30.659 like saying you know we've all seen them those 01:01:30.659 --> 01:01:33.139 places that are abusing government housing you 01:01:33.139 --> 01:01:35.139 know and they've got the escalate on the front 01:01:35.139 --> 01:01:37.739 door on the front porch and you know the kids 01:01:37.739 --> 01:01:39.820 are still running around dirty yeah we all know 01:01:39.820 --> 01:01:43.320 those examples but how many people have got back 01:01:43.320 --> 01:01:45.179 on their feet because of food stamps because 01:01:45.179 --> 01:01:46.860 of government housing and now they're thriving 01:01:46.860 --> 01:01:49.219 and they're paying taxes and doing well again 01:01:49.219 --> 01:01:53.340 so And I think currently there's even less compassion 01:01:53.340 --> 01:01:56.119 and altruism with this administration at the 01:01:56.119 --> 01:01:58.300 moment, which is probably even worse for our 01:01:58.300 --> 01:02:01.699 homeless population, I would imagine. And it 01:02:01.699 --> 01:02:05.579 really just takes a little bit of ambition, a 01:02:05.579 --> 01:02:07.980 little bit of education on that person because, 01:02:08.079 --> 01:02:12.980 like you said, a lot of them were actual contributing 01:02:12.980 --> 01:02:16.460 people in society and then just mental health 01:02:16.460 --> 01:02:20.679 got to them. The addiction got to them. i watched 01:02:20.679 --> 01:02:23.039 the vi i think it was vice where they were talking 01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:25.440 about what's it feel like to overdose and the 01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:27.619 guy responded it's like slow dancing with god 01:02:27.619 --> 01:02:31.199 and i was like gosh if that's if that's his response 01:02:31.199 --> 01:02:34.940 of what the description of overdosing is no wonder 01:02:34.940 --> 01:02:38.420 people keep continuing to try and overdose because 01:02:38.420 --> 01:02:40.579 it's like that's the best feeling they've ever 01:02:40.579 --> 01:02:42.739 had in their life but like you said what are 01:02:42.739 --> 01:02:45.800 they running from what are they hiding from um 01:02:45.800 --> 01:02:49.199 maddie roberts story when he said when he did 01:02:49.199 --> 01:02:52.739 the ibogaine he was like ibogaine took this away 01:02:52.739 --> 01:02:54.820 it took it took the wave away he said what's 01:02:54.820 --> 01:02:56.880 that in the back that dirty box that's chained 01:02:56.880 --> 01:02:59.400 up leaking everywhere let's address that box 01:02:59.400 --> 01:03:01.460 and i was like there's a lot of people that have 01:03:01.460 --> 01:03:04.159 that box that they haven't addressed there's 01:03:04.159 --> 01:03:07.320 a lot of people that have that veil over their 01:03:07.320 --> 01:03:10.420 issues that are keeping them from getting better 01:03:10.420 --> 01:03:13.420 from getting off of the streets from not being 01:03:13.420 --> 01:03:16.219 a drug addict or a heroin addict or anything 01:03:16.219 --> 01:03:19.500 like that And it's not just drugs. There's people 01:03:19.500 --> 01:03:22.360 that are gambling, porn. There's so many things 01:03:22.360 --> 01:03:26.420 that alcohol. Alcoholism is probably the worst 01:03:26.420 --> 01:03:29.639 silent epidemic I've seen in the fire service 01:03:29.639 --> 01:03:32.000 because so many people drink alcohol to sleep. 01:03:32.119 --> 01:03:34.320 They drink alcohol to relax. They drink alcohol 01:03:34.320 --> 01:03:37.960 to not see the things that they see. And I'm 01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:39.760 just like, yo, we got to figure out some, let's 01:03:39.760 --> 01:03:42.500 figure that part out. Figure out why we're drinking 01:03:42.500 --> 01:03:46.349 so much. DUIs. You know, policies are always 01:03:46.349 --> 01:03:48.889 changing because somebody gets a DUI and now 01:03:48.889 --> 01:03:50.409 we got to figure out how to make sure they're 01:03:50.409 --> 01:03:53.369 okay, how to take care of them because, well, 01:03:53.429 --> 01:03:55.050 we didn't take care of their mental health issue. 01:03:55.170 --> 01:03:57.769 So now they drink alcohol until they can't stand 01:03:57.769 --> 01:04:00.349 and they're trying to drive home and now they're 01:04:00.349 --> 01:04:03.789 in trouble. Well, let's address that before they 01:04:03.789 --> 01:04:07.030 get to drinking alcohol because I don't drink. 01:04:07.309 --> 01:04:11.210 But like one of my captains in Salisbury told 01:04:11.210 --> 01:04:15.329 me, he said, if you drink anything. call somebody 01:04:15.329 --> 01:04:18.409 to come get you. Call me. I will drive wherever 01:04:18.409 --> 01:04:21.190 you are and drive you home. And I was like, thanks, 01:04:21.210 --> 01:04:24.110 Cap. And I kind of keep that same mentality for 01:04:24.110 --> 01:04:26.369 myself. If anybody's like, hey, we're going out 01:04:26.369 --> 01:04:28.289 drinking. If anybody needs something, call me. 01:04:28.369 --> 01:04:32.730 I can come pick you up. I don't drink. But it's 01:04:32.730 --> 01:04:34.570 a silent epidemic. It's a silent thing where 01:04:34.570 --> 01:04:38.929 people are just slowly drinking their lives away 01:04:38.929 --> 01:04:40.530 to where now they don't have anything left. They 01:04:40.530 --> 01:04:42.610 don't have a family. They don't have a career. 01:04:43.360 --> 01:04:48.519 They don't have anything left but alcohol and 01:04:48.519 --> 01:04:52.940 the demons in their heads. Well, I want to get 01:04:52.940 --> 01:04:55.500 to, you know, when you started becoming engaged 01:04:55.500 --> 01:04:57.199 in the mental health side in the fire service. 01:04:57.239 --> 01:05:00.360 But just before we do, 14 years in fire now, 01:05:00.559 --> 01:05:03.800 what are some of the career calls? And they can 01:05:03.800 --> 01:05:06.280 be obviously big bomb burner fires or they can 01:05:06.280 --> 01:05:08.860 be simply calls where it was kindness and compassion. 01:05:08.940 --> 01:05:10.940 And it's just one of those ones that you remember. 01:05:14.630 --> 01:05:17.630 So I can go ahead and give you my mental health 01:05:17.630 --> 01:05:21.969 story. So my mental health story started in Salisbury. 01:05:22.030 --> 01:05:26.630 I had just made engineer and we got a drowning 01:05:26.630 --> 01:05:30.969 call in Salisbury. It was at the city park and 01:05:30.969 --> 01:05:33.289 city park has a huge pond in the front of it. 01:05:33.329 --> 01:05:35.429 And I'm like, somebody drowned in there and I 01:05:35.429 --> 01:05:40.269 can't swim. I can't swim at all. So a funny story. 01:05:41.139 --> 01:05:43.980 I went swimming with my kids. Me and my wife 01:05:43.980 --> 01:05:45.880 and kids went to this little pool or whatever. 01:05:46.219 --> 01:05:48.619 And it was about, I want to say it was like 10 01:05:48.619 --> 01:05:52.059 feet deep, 10 feet, 10 to 12 feet. And one of 01:05:52.059 --> 01:05:53.760 the toys is down there. And I was like, you know, 01:05:53.780 --> 01:05:55.840 I had been practicing. I had been getting a little 01:05:55.840 --> 01:05:59.239 bit stronger as a swimmer from like one corner 01:05:59.239 --> 01:06:01.800 to the next corner of the pool, like not far. 01:06:02.699 --> 01:06:04.900 And I got a little confident and I looked at 01:06:04.900 --> 01:06:07.400 myself and I said, I can go get that toy. So 01:06:07.400 --> 01:06:10.170 I dove down. And when I got down to the bottom, 01:06:10.210 --> 01:06:12.369 I grabbed the toy and I started floating back 01:06:12.369 --> 01:06:14.809 up. So when I started floating back up, I went 01:06:14.809 --> 01:06:17.309 to kick and my feet were already off the ground. 01:06:17.650 --> 01:06:20.269 So I was just suspended in the water. And I'm 01:06:20.269 --> 01:06:23.010 like, I'm about to drown. So I start kicking 01:06:23.010 --> 01:06:25.949 and screaming and get to the top. And my wife 01:06:25.949 --> 01:06:28.590 is looking at me. She's like, is he serious? 01:06:28.789 --> 01:06:30.610 And I was like, yes, I'm serious. And I went 01:06:30.610 --> 01:06:33.230 back under and my kids were hanging on the side 01:06:33.230 --> 01:06:35.429 of the pool laughing. And they thought I was 01:06:35.429 --> 01:06:38.469 joking. I was like, no, I was dying. The lifeguard, 01:06:38.510 --> 01:06:41.929 she was probably 115 pounds, and she didn't even 01:06:41.929 --> 01:06:43.650 budge. She was like, I'm not going to save him. 01:06:45.090 --> 01:06:46.829 He's too big. I'm not going to save him. Throw 01:06:46.829 --> 01:06:49.969 it in the ring. She was like, I'm not going over 01:06:49.969 --> 01:06:52.010 there. But I finally made it to the side, and 01:06:52.010 --> 01:06:53.929 I was like, I'm never doing that again. I thought 01:06:53.929 --> 01:06:57.869 I was going to drown. But fast forward to that, 01:06:57.949 --> 01:07:04.329 we get to the call, and I remember certain things 01:07:04.329 --> 01:07:06.920 about the call. I remember pulling up, and I 01:07:06.920 --> 01:07:10.179 remember pulling the parking brake, and Salisbury 01:07:10.179 --> 01:07:16.539 PD's, one of the patrol cars, had the siren blaring. 01:07:16.699 --> 01:07:19.280 I don't know if he left it on to alert us or 01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:20.840 if he just left it on because he was in a hurry. 01:07:21.139 --> 01:07:24.139 But we get there, and there's two little boys 01:07:24.139 --> 01:07:29.239 standing off to the side. One's 10, one is 11, 01:07:29.420 --> 01:07:32.360 and then there was an 8 -year -old in the water. 01:07:32.920 --> 01:07:35.619 So what happened was... They were throwing rocks 01:07:35.619 --> 01:07:37.539 on the ice. It was a little retention pond. They 01:07:37.539 --> 01:07:40.559 were throwing rocks on the ice. And he went out 01:07:40.559 --> 01:07:42.320 there to get a bigger rock. And he said, man, 01:07:42.380 --> 01:07:44.679 this is solid. And when he jumped, he fell through 01:07:44.679 --> 01:07:48.239 the ice. And they said he bobbed up once, bobbed 01:07:48.239 --> 01:07:49.780 up again, and then he didn't come up anymore. 01:07:50.719 --> 01:07:54.039 So we get there. My captain looks at me, Eric 01:07:54.039 --> 01:07:55.780 Boss. He looks at me. He says, I'm going to have 01:07:55.780 --> 01:07:58.719 to jump in. I'm like, Eric, it's cold. It was 01:07:58.719 --> 01:08:03.619 like freezing. 30 or 40 degrees out there. I'm 01:08:03.619 --> 01:08:05.460 like, dude, this is cold. He's like, I got to 01:08:05.460 --> 01:08:07.320 go in. I got to see if I can find him. So he 01:08:07.320 --> 01:08:09.599 starts taking his shoes off. And at that time, 01:08:09.699 --> 01:08:13.320 the rescue one shows up and they have a guy that's 01:08:13.320 --> 01:08:16.539 in a wetsuit. So they brought the boat too. So 01:08:16.539 --> 01:08:20.239 they put the boat in the water and my captain 01:08:20.239 --> 01:08:21.939 and the captain from the rescue get on the boat 01:08:21.939 --> 01:08:25.479 and they're using roof hooks to kind of drag 01:08:25.479 --> 01:08:27.920 the water. And they probably did that for probably 01:08:27.920 --> 01:08:29.460 about five minutes because we asked the kids 01:08:29.460 --> 01:08:31.720 where he went in at. and then so they put the 01:08:31.720 --> 01:08:35.380 boat right there they went in and my captain 01:08:35.380 --> 01:08:39.020 says he was just about to say we can't find him 01:08:39.020 --> 01:08:42.840 to tell uh halsey to get in the water and he 01:08:42.840 --> 01:08:44.659 said he felt something and he started pulling 01:08:44.659 --> 01:08:48.000 him up so when he starts pulling him up he sees 01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:50.859 a red coat a red puffy coat come up out of the 01:08:50.859 --> 01:08:52.539 water and they grabbed and said we found him 01:08:52.539 --> 01:08:57.960 so we yanked the boat back to our side and when 01:08:57.960 --> 01:09:00.699 i reach in to pull the kid out to put him on 01:09:00.699 --> 01:09:02.739 the stretcher when i picked him up i grabbed 01:09:02.739 --> 01:09:04.399 one wrist because they had a wrist up i grabbed 01:09:04.399 --> 01:09:07.159 his wrist because he's probably 80 pounds and 01:09:07.159 --> 01:09:09.119 i picked him straight up and i saw my oldest 01:09:09.119 --> 01:09:12.800 son's face on the kid and i stopped for a minute 01:09:12.800 --> 01:09:15.600 but then i was like i can't stop i put him on 01:09:15.600 --> 01:09:18.260 the stretcher and i started doing cpr and the 01:09:18.260 --> 01:09:20.760 whole time i'm looking over at him to see what 01:09:20.760 --> 01:09:23.600 they're doing it's like i get glimpses of my 01:09:23.600 --> 01:09:25.880 oldest son i'm just like man this is this is 01:09:25.880 --> 01:09:30.310 not good i was like this is not good So I keep 01:09:30.310 --> 01:09:32.310 going and doing what I'm doing. I do CPR on this 01:09:32.310 --> 01:09:34.810 kid all the way to the hospital. We pass him 01:09:34.810 --> 01:09:38.210 off. While we're doing CPR, there's dirt coming 01:09:38.210 --> 01:09:40.430 out of his lungs. So I know, me knowing what 01:09:40.430 --> 01:09:42.569 I know, I know that this isn't going to end well. 01:09:43.050 --> 01:09:46.670 So I continue doing CPR, pass him off to the 01:09:46.670 --> 01:09:50.609 nurses. The family shows up. And when the family 01:09:50.609 --> 01:09:52.949 shows up, they're looking at us like, hey, where's 01:09:52.949 --> 01:09:58.300 my loved one? And I'm like, okay. And I couldn't 01:09:58.300 --> 01:10:00.939 answer because I'm still a firefighter. So my 01:10:00.939 --> 01:10:02.680 captain says they have him back there. They're 01:10:02.680 --> 01:10:05.300 going to work on him. And then we leave. So they 01:10:05.300 --> 01:10:08.779 do a debriefing at the station real quick right 01:10:08.779 --> 01:10:11.079 there. And we're like, nobody wants to talk. 01:10:11.159 --> 01:10:12.520 Nobody wants to talk. We don't know you. We're 01:10:12.520 --> 01:10:14.939 not talking. So then they come back and they 01:10:14.939 --> 01:10:17.319 do a round circle debriefing with everybody involved 01:10:17.319 --> 01:10:22.100 in the incident. And I was like, okay, so we 01:10:22.100 --> 01:10:24.479 get in there and I'm telling everything and it 01:10:24.479 --> 01:10:27.439 gets to me. i start talking and when i get to 01:10:27.439 --> 01:10:31.380 um when i get to the part where we're talking 01:10:31.380 --> 01:10:33.939 about the parents not being with the children 01:10:33.939 --> 01:10:36.680 we were glad that one of those kids had a cell 01:10:36.680 --> 01:10:41.340 phone and he was able to call 9 -1 -1 but it 01:10:41.340 --> 01:10:43.380 hit me and i broke down in front of all these 01:10:43.380 --> 01:10:46.020 people people i don't know people i do know and 01:10:46.020 --> 01:10:48.460 i'm just like all right something something's 01:10:48.460 --> 01:10:51.880 completely wrong with me right now with this 01:10:51.880 --> 01:10:56.199 situation with this call so I talk about it. 01:10:56.220 --> 01:10:58.020 I ended up going to therapy for a little bit, 01:10:58.060 --> 01:11:02.060 not a lot, just enough to kind of ease the sting 01:11:02.060 --> 01:11:07.619 of the thought for it not. And fast forward from 01:11:07.619 --> 01:11:10.479 that day, we ran a few more. There was nothing 01:11:10.479 --> 01:11:12.819 really after that call that really bothered me 01:11:12.819 --> 01:11:19.520 until I got to Charlotte. And we had, I was going 01:11:19.520 --> 01:11:22.939 through the engineer's assessment. While I was 01:11:22.939 --> 01:11:24.279 going through the engineer's assessment, the 01:11:24.279 --> 01:11:26.939 level of stress in that assessment was high for 01:11:26.939 --> 01:11:29.520 me. And I hadn't addressed anything as far as 01:11:29.520 --> 01:11:31.939 sleep, as far as any other calls that I had been 01:11:31.939 --> 01:11:36.720 on. And we're in the lake house with my kids 01:11:36.720 --> 01:11:39.939 and my wife and family. And we're down at the 01:11:39.939 --> 01:11:43.180 boat slip and we're fishing. And I hear a splash. 01:11:43.479 --> 01:11:47.100 And I look back and my 11 -year -old, he was 01:11:47.100 --> 01:11:50.819 eight at the time, fell in the boat slip. And 01:11:50.819 --> 01:11:54.260 my mind starts to spin because I can't swim. 01:11:54.359 --> 01:11:56.479 So I'm like, I can't jump in. So I'm like, I 01:11:56.479 --> 01:11:59.539 hope that when I reach down here that I can grab 01:11:59.539 --> 01:12:03.460 this kid because he was kicking. And I jumped 01:12:03.460 --> 01:12:05.420 down on the dock and I reached down and I grabbed 01:12:05.420 --> 01:12:07.840 him. I grabbed his wrist. And when I pulled him 01:12:07.840 --> 01:12:12.859 up, I saw a red coat. I seen my oldest son, an 01:12:12.859 --> 01:12:16.479 eight -year -old. I saw my current Jarek. He's 01:12:16.479 --> 01:12:20.779 11 now. I seen him in a red coat. It was all 01:12:20.779 --> 01:12:23.399 meshed together. Both incidents were meshed together. 01:12:23.579 --> 01:12:26.680 And I just kind of sat there holding him. And 01:12:26.680 --> 01:12:29.159 I was so messed up after that call, after picking 01:12:29.159 --> 01:12:31.180 him up out of that water, that I couldn't even 01:12:31.180 --> 01:12:34.359 make a taco. We had tacos later. I couldn't take 01:12:34.359 --> 01:12:38.380 a tortilla, put chicken, cheese, and lettuce 01:12:38.380 --> 01:12:42.100 on it to eat because I couldn't think straight. 01:12:42.479 --> 01:12:46.840 And that's when I realized that something was 01:12:46.840 --> 01:12:50.829 really wrong then. And that's when I started 01:12:50.829 --> 01:12:55.130 getting into the mental health side of it. Because 01:12:55.130 --> 01:12:58.850 not just that one call, like I've read so many 01:12:58.850 --> 01:13:03.170 calls, like I've read so many calls in my 14 01:13:03.170 --> 01:13:06.270 years or whatnot, where I'm sitting here looking 01:13:06.270 --> 01:13:08.670 at a kid, like this kid ain't gonna make it. 01:13:09.329 --> 01:13:11.649 And then I'm sitting here looking at a family 01:13:11.649 --> 01:13:14.810 member and somebody's got to tell that family 01:13:14.810 --> 01:13:17.609 member that this child right here or this man 01:13:17.609 --> 01:13:19.899 or this woman that you love. it's not going to 01:13:19.899 --> 01:13:25.300 make it so um another significant call that kind 01:13:25.300 --> 01:13:30.159 of stuck with me was um um doing if doing cpr 01:13:30.159 --> 01:13:35.000 on a two week old baby that was that one stuck 01:13:35.000 --> 01:13:38.640 with me too because we were by ourselves me and 01:13:38.640 --> 01:13:41.180 me and my other friend who we've been working 01:13:41.180 --> 01:13:45.579 together for a while um we were by ourselves 01:13:45.579 --> 01:13:50.439 for a little bit until until The Rescue 10 in 01:13:50.439 --> 01:13:54.739 Charlotte showed up. But just remembering picking 01:13:54.739 --> 01:13:58.479 up doing CPR on a baby, it's just like, this 01:13:58.479 --> 01:14:00.640 is not normal. That's something that doesn't 01:14:00.640 --> 01:14:05.880 normally happen. And it resonated with me. What's 01:14:05.880 --> 01:14:11.659 another one? There's a few more calls that I 01:14:11.659 --> 01:14:15.100 ran that kind of, not necessarily bad calls, 01:14:15.180 --> 01:14:18.250 mostly domestic violence calls. that bothered 01:14:18.250 --> 01:14:22.649 me because it's like, I don't like the way that 01:14:22.649 --> 01:14:27.590 is going down. Because all of a sudden, this 01:14:27.590 --> 01:14:30.810 dude or woman, there's some women out there that 01:14:30.810 --> 01:14:34.550 beat men. I mean, this is how it is. But it's 01:14:34.550 --> 01:14:37.649 mainly the man or a man puts his hands on a woman 01:14:37.649 --> 01:14:41.869 and then she denies it. And it's like, why? Why 01:14:41.869 --> 01:14:45.310 are you putting yourself through that? Any other 01:14:45.310 --> 01:14:48.890 type of call that involves children bothered 01:14:48.890 --> 01:14:55.170 me a little bit. There was one call right before 01:14:55.170 --> 01:14:58.289 me and my family went to Disney World. I was 01:14:58.289 --> 01:15:02.489 driving Battalion 8, which is the airport battalion. 01:15:02.909 --> 01:15:04.890 I was driving the battalion chief, and we ran 01:15:04.890 --> 01:15:09.170 a wreck. And it was a drunk driver in an Escalade, 01:15:09.189 --> 01:15:15.899 and he had two. three -year -olds in the third 01:15:15.899 --> 01:15:19.939 row seat in the back, not seat belt, an eight 01:15:19.939 --> 01:15:22.039 -year -old, an 11 -year -old, and then a 14 -year 01:15:22.039 --> 01:15:25.579 -old in the front seat. And he was drunk. And 01:15:25.579 --> 01:15:30.779 one of the cars, they either T -boned a car that 01:15:30.779 --> 01:15:33.539 was running from a drive -by shooting. So the 01:15:33.539 --> 01:15:36.439 car shot into a house, and then they were racing 01:15:36.439 --> 01:15:40.260 down the road, and the Escalade T -boned them, 01:15:40.300 --> 01:15:42.859 and it almost flipped the Escalade over. so it 01:15:42.859 --> 01:15:44.600 t -bone them through this car out of the way 01:15:44.600 --> 01:15:48.100 the escalator almost flipped over and the little 01:15:48.100 --> 01:15:51.399 girl told me a story told me what she did in 01:15:51.399 --> 01:15:53.899 that moment the 11 year old girl she said as 01:15:53.899 --> 01:15:57.460 we were flipping one of her little sister cousins 01:15:57.460 --> 01:16:00.600 was going out of the window she grabbed them 01:16:00.600 --> 01:16:04.420 and was holding the other one pulled them back 01:16:04.420 --> 01:16:06.939 in and then they all hit the hit the floor i 01:16:06.939 --> 01:16:10.100 was like oh my god that's i mean that's terrible 01:16:10.100 --> 01:16:14.430 for her to think if i let her go she dies if 01:16:14.430 --> 01:16:17.289 we go out of this window we all die and i mean 01:16:17.289 --> 01:16:19.470 they were just they were just so traumatized 01:16:19.470 --> 01:16:23.989 but that was like one of the things i realized 01:16:23.989 --> 01:16:28.170 i was like this job this job takes a toll on 01:16:28.170 --> 01:16:32.350 you the things we see bother us so bad sometimes 01:16:32.350 --> 01:16:37.550 and a lot of people don't don't address it a 01:16:37.550 --> 01:16:41.460 lot of people are are told not to address it. 01:16:41.460 --> 01:16:43.439 Hey, don't worry about that. Suck it up. And 01:16:43.439 --> 01:16:45.619 I'm just like, nah, man, I'm not sucking this 01:16:45.619 --> 01:16:50.119 shit up. I can't do that. So yeah, those are 01:16:50.119 --> 01:16:54.180 the few calls that really stand out to me that 01:16:54.180 --> 01:16:59.560 have molded the way I operate in the fire service. 01:16:59.659 --> 01:17:03.020 We've had a few fire calls. One of my first fires, 01:17:03.060 --> 01:17:05.420 a guy tried to set the house on fire. So he started 01:17:05.420 --> 01:17:08.619 at the back of the house pouring gas. He started 01:17:08.619 --> 01:17:10.300 the front of the house pouring gas to the back 01:17:10.300 --> 01:17:12.260 of the house and then lit it off in the back 01:17:12.260 --> 01:17:14.800 of the house and it overran him and he didn't 01:17:14.800 --> 01:17:18.500 get out in time. So that was my first fire ever. 01:17:19.279 --> 01:17:24.979 And I remember going in and we were moving hose 01:17:24.979 --> 01:17:27.979 and I stopped and I was sitting, I thought it 01:17:27.979 --> 01:17:31.180 was closed. So I stopped in the corner and I'm 01:17:31.180 --> 01:17:32.920 sitting and I'm pulling the hose and I was like, 01:17:32.939 --> 01:17:34.859 all right, I gotta go. And as soon as I move, 01:17:34.960 --> 01:17:38.399 I hear the rescue say, We got a victim. And I 01:17:38.399 --> 01:17:41.319 look back and I see legs get drug out. And I 01:17:41.319 --> 01:17:44.020 was like, oh, that was a person. I didn't know 01:17:44.020 --> 01:17:45.819 it at the time, but I was sitting on the guy 01:17:45.819 --> 01:17:48.439 that started the fire, moving hose, getting ready 01:17:48.439 --> 01:17:50.180 to go fight fire. And I come out and I was kind 01:17:50.180 --> 01:17:53.659 of, I was kind of, I was kind of bothered by 01:17:53.659 --> 01:17:54.880 it because I was like, man, that's what I'm supposed 01:17:54.880 --> 01:17:56.939 to do. I'm supposed to say that, dude. But he 01:17:56.939 --> 01:17:59.560 wasn't, he was already long gone by the time 01:17:59.560 --> 01:18:02.939 we got there. But it's still, it was in the back 01:18:02.939 --> 01:18:06.119 of my head that he was right there. And I didn't 01:18:06.119 --> 01:18:08.779 even notice it, but I was also a brand new firefighter. 01:18:08.960 --> 01:18:12.079 It was literally my first ever structure fire 01:18:12.079 --> 01:18:19.340 going inside and whatnot. And that's, that's 01:18:19.340 --> 01:18:23.079 about it. There's probably a few more I could 01:18:23.079 --> 01:18:25.000 probably come across later on, but that's, that's, 01:18:25.000 --> 01:18:27.319 those are the, those are the major ones that 01:18:27.319 --> 01:18:31.800 really shaped my mental health story as to why 01:18:31.800 --> 01:18:34.560 I wanted to do mental health. So what were the 01:18:34.560 --> 01:18:37.720 tools that you started using to improve your 01:18:37.720 --> 01:18:41.640 own mental health? So the first time with the 01:18:41.640 --> 01:18:45.960 kid in the pond, I realized that actually talking 01:18:45.960 --> 01:18:50.739 about it is the first step. Once you admit that 01:18:50.739 --> 01:18:54.819 there's a problem, that's the first step to getting 01:18:54.819 --> 01:18:57.500 the ball rolling. So I started that and I went 01:18:57.500 --> 01:19:04.529 to therapy with a... Patty, Lyerly, and Salisbury. 01:19:04.710 --> 01:19:06.890 So Lyerly Funeral Home, there was a fire when 01:19:06.890 --> 01:19:09.550 I was in recruit school in Concord. Salisbury 01:19:09.550 --> 01:19:11.489 had a Lyerly Funeral Home. It was a big funeral 01:19:11.489 --> 01:19:13.909 home fire. And I mean, I'm sitting here and I'm 01:19:13.909 --> 01:19:16.529 kind of mad because I'm not there. I'm in recruit 01:19:16.529 --> 01:19:17.729 school. I was like, man, I want to be at that 01:19:17.729 --> 01:19:20.810 fire. And one of the training captains in Concord 01:19:20.810 --> 01:19:22.890 was like, don't worry about that. You'll go to 01:19:22.890 --> 01:19:25.029 more fires. I was like, but that's a big fire. 01:19:25.189 --> 01:19:30.739 I want to go. It was funny when I got back to 01:19:30.739 --> 01:19:32.920 Salisbury after recruit school, I put my gear 01:19:32.920 --> 01:19:35.220 on, can't go in the fire, can't do anything. 01:19:35.359 --> 01:19:37.520 I'm still in recruit school, but I'm just standing 01:19:37.520 --> 01:19:40.279 there. And the deputy chief comes up to me. He's 01:19:40.279 --> 01:19:42.439 like, what are you doing? I was like, I don't 01:19:42.439 --> 01:19:44.340 know, waiting to do something. And he was like, 01:19:44.460 --> 01:19:47.100 okay. He said, you want a job? I was like, part 01:19:47.100 --> 01:19:50.119 -time or full -time? I don't know why I asked 01:19:50.119 --> 01:19:52.300 part -time or full -time. I was like, I should 01:19:52.300 --> 01:19:54.659 just be like, yes, I want a job. He said full 01:19:54.659 --> 01:19:56.979 -time. I said, absolutely. So that's how that 01:19:56.979 --> 01:20:01.770 got started. Patty Lirely was a therapist and 01:20:01.770 --> 01:20:06.569 I went to her and she kind of started giving 01:20:06.569 --> 01:20:09.109 me like the tapping, like the tapping therapy 01:20:09.109 --> 01:20:10.829 and stuff like that. So I did that for a little 01:20:10.829 --> 01:20:13.869 bit. And then I was just like, I don't know. 01:20:13.909 --> 01:20:16.130 I think I felt like I got better, but I probably 01:20:16.130 --> 01:20:19.430 just stopped too early or just got to a point 01:20:19.430 --> 01:20:21.630 where I was like, I'll be fine. I'll get over 01:20:21.630 --> 01:20:26.569 it. So once I get to, once I go to, I get more 01:20:26.569 --> 01:20:28.970 resources. I got more resources when I got to 01:20:28.970 --> 01:20:32.010 Charlotte. When I got to Charlotte and we started 01:20:32.010 --> 01:20:33.729 going through things and I started actually reaching 01:20:33.729 --> 01:20:37.930 out to the EAP and talking to them and getting 01:20:37.930 --> 01:20:40.930 some actual therapeutic help, like actually sitting 01:20:40.930 --> 01:20:44.149 down and talking to a therapist, that's when 01:20:44.149 --> 01:20:46.289 my health started to get better. That's when 01:20:46.289 --> 01:20:48.609 my mental health started getting better because 01:20:48.609 --> 01:20:52.750 there was one time my wife looked at me after 01:20:52.750 --> 01:20:55.850 it was a busy night and I was very tired. I was 01:20:55.850 --> 01:20:58.270 just ill. My wife looked at me and she said, 01:20:58.369 --> 01:21:01.149 you need to get some help. And I was like, yeah, 01:21:01.189 --> 01:21:03.390 I need to get some help. I need to go get some 01:21:03.390 --> 01:21:05.229 help. I need to go figure something out. And 01:21:05.229 --> 01:21:08.090 the next day I had called and set up some appointments 01:21:08.090 --> 01:21:13.449 to go get therapy. Because if you don't get therapy, 01:21:13.510 --> 01:21:15.329 there's no point in saying, hey, I got a problem. 01:21:15.609 --> 01:21:18.810 You have to go do something to help it. You know, 01:21:18.909 --> 01:21:24.149 that's probably the most I did was going to therapy 01:21:24.149 --> 01:21:27.100 and talking with somebody. Brilliant. And what 01:21:27.100 --> 01:21:29.920 about deciding then to join Peer Support, SISM, 01:21:30.159 --> 01:21:33.960 all those things? So deciding to do that meant 01:21:33.960 --> 01:21:40.020 kind of after the whole roundtable thing we did 01:21:40.020 --> 01:21:42.619 in Salisbury, and then I noticed that that helped, 01:21:42.680 --> 01:21:46.260 that kick -started me on the, hey, I need to 01:21:46.260 --> 01:21:47.840 go get something figured out because I just had 01:21:47.840 --> 01:21:52.039 a breakdown in front of all these people. I said, 01:21:52.039 --> 01:21:55.100 okay. when I got to Charlotte and I saw that 01:21:55.100 --> 01:21:57.460 we had a peer support team, I said, I want to 01:21:57.460 --> 01:22:00.579 be on it. I want to go get all the training for 01:22:00.579 --> 01:22:02.140 peer support, get all the training for SISM and 01:22:02.140 --> 01:22:06.060 be on that, on those teams and actually be used 01:22:06.060 --> 01:22:09.560 when people have pretty bad calls, because I 01:22:09.560 --> 01:22:13.140 feel like I'm good at taking in what somebody 01:22:13.140 --> 01:22:15.739 tells me. Cause I hear all the time, like when 01:22:15.739 --> 01:22:18.100 somebody starts talking about their story and 01:22:18.100 --> 01:22:20.199 then they start telling me. what they're going 01:22:20.199 --> 01:22:21.659 through or what they, what they went through 01:22:21.659 --> 01:22:23.239 and what they saw and how they, how it bothered 01:22:23.239 --> 01:22:27.260 them. I'm like, okay, so I'm good at hearing 01:22:27.260 --> 01:22:29.859 that stuff, but I need to be better at giving 01:22:29.859 --> 01:22:32.279 them some ways to go, giving them some things 01:22:32.279 --> 01:22:35.260 that can help them outside of drinking alcohol. 01:22:35.680 --> 01:22:38.560 Because that seems to be the first thing that 01:22:38.560 --> 01:22:40.319 happens. Like, man, I can't sleep. I'm gonna 01:22:40.319 --> 01:22:42.840 go get drunk and pass out. It's like, no, don't 01:22:42.840 --> 01:22:46.720 do that. Like walk, drink some water, you know, 01:22:46.720 --> 01:22:51.670 functional mushrooms. Do something that's going 01:22:51.670 --> 01:22:56.510 to help you wind down because I get it. When 01:22:56.510 --> 01:22:58.409 you try to lay down and all you can picture is 01:22:58.409 --> 01:23:01.130 a kid in a red coat being pulled out of a lake, 01:23:01.329 --> 01:23:04.810 it's tough. You know what I mean? Or just in 01:23:04.810 --> 01:23:07.310 general, you just can't calm down because the 01:23:07.310 --> 01:23:12.510 last call you ran bothered you too much. So that's 01:23:12.510 --> 01:23:14.670 what drove me to get into SISM is to be able 01:23:14.670 --> 01:23:18.539 to, and peer support, is... I've written a few 01:23:18.539 --> 01:23:22.279 peer support, I guess you could say, calls where 01:23:22.279 --> 01:23:24.560 we show up to the departments that have had bad 01:23:24.560 --> 01:23:29.319 calls and we talk to them. Being able to come 01:23:29.319 --> 01:23:33.779 in and tell the initial things that I went through 01:23:33.779 --> 01:23:36.560 and say, hey, I went through these things and 01:23:36.560 --> 01:23:38.399 I'm standing in front of you. When you start 01:23:38.399 --> 01:23:40.119 seeing these things and going through these things, 01:23:40.279 --> 01:23:44.140 you have to reach out and get help. Do not bottle 01:23:44.140 --> 01:23:46.779 it up. Do not say suck it up. You'll be all right. 01:23:47.229 --> 01:23:50.930 go get help because it doesn't help. It's not 01:23:50.930 --> 01:23:54.270 going to benefit you to, to continue to man up 01:23:54.270 --> 01:23:58.310 and push through it. If you don't have anything 01:23:58.310 --> 01:24:00.710 to push through with, you know what I mean? So 01:24:00.710 --> 01:24:03.069 that was one of the, actually being able to have 01:24:03.069 --> 01:24:06.430 the tools to give somebody direction was why 01:24:06.430 --> 01:24:09.449 I did that. What about work week? Do you guys 01:24:09.449 --> 01:24:12.829 have Kelly days? Yes, we do. So we have Kelly 01:24:12.829 --> 01:24:16.460 day, Kelly night. And we just got done picking 01:24:16.460 --> 01:24:19.600 vacation. So a lot of guys and girls pick vacation 01:24:19.600 --> 01:24:24.020 off of their Kellys. So we get a Kelly day and 01:24:24.020 --> 01:24:28.079 a Kelly night. So we work half shifts. In Salisbury, 01:24:28.119 --> 01:24:30.500 we had 24 -hour Kellys. And I was like, that's 01:24:30.500 --> 01:24:32.699 not bad. But here in Charlotte, we have a day 01:24:32.699 --> 01:24:35.140 Kelly and a night Kelly. And I mean, it's not 01:24:35.140 --> 01:24:38.560 bad, but it's just you got to know with Charlotte's 01:24:38.560 --> 01:24:40.979 traffic, it's going to be hectic sometimes getting 01:24:40.979 --> 01:24:44.270 in. on a night kelly or getting home on it from 01:24:44.270 --> 01:24:48.350 a day kelly or yeah getting home from a day kelly 01:24:48.350 --> 01:24:50.449 and coming in or off of a night kelly whatnot 01:24:50.449 --> 01:24:54.310 so if you've got kelly days and you overstaff 01:24:54.310 --> 01:24:56.250 in a positive way where you have extra bodies 01:24:56.250 --> 01:24:58.329 on the rig you're actually set up pretty well 01:24:58.329 --> 01:25:04.029 for a 24 72 then see 24 we did a we did a um 01:25:04.029 --> 01:25:08.210 schedule study we have a scheduled group talking 01:25:08.210 --> 01:25:11.140 about different schedules now So the way Charlotte's 01:25:11.140 --> 01:25:16.840 schedule is, it's a modified 24 -48. So we're 01:25:16.840 --> 01:25:22.720 on a shift, off 24, on 24, off 48. And then that's 01:25:22.720 --> 01:25:25.220 the first part of the tour. Then you come back 01:25:25.220 --> 01:25:28.640 after two days, on a day, off a day, on a day, 01:25:28.739 --> 01:25:30.979 and then you get a 96. So you get a four -day 01:25:30.979 --> 01:25:35.000 break. And that first sequence is a tour. Then 01:25:35.000 --> 01:25:38.850 a four -day break, then the next tour. A lot 01:25:38.850 --> 01:25:41.149 of people had cut back, especially rookies that 01:25:41.149 --> 01:25:42.569 are coming out of recruit school with not many 01:25:42.569 --> 01:25:46.710 vacation hours. They can cut back on using their 01:25:46.710 --> 01:25:49.470 vacation because you have a four -day break every 01:25:49.470 --> 01:25:54.409 couple weeks. You get a four -day break. So I 01:25:54.409 --> 01:25:59.869 would think a 24 -72 shift would be good, but 01:25:59.869 --> 01:26:02.729 a lot of people say that there's not enough funding 01:26:02.729 --> 01:26:05.609 for it or there's not enough manpower for it 01:26:05.609 --> 01:26:07.130 because we can't build trucks now. And I was 01:26:07.130 --> 01:26:11.260 like, I see that, but the benefits of the three 01:26:11.260 --> 01:26:15.899 days off, that first 24 off, that's your wind 01:26:15.899 --> 01:26:18.180 down. That's where you get in. You get in the 01:26:18.180 --> 01:26:20.960 house, you wind down, and you decompress from 01:26:20.960 --> 01:26:23.260 the 24 -hour shift you just ran. Then you have 01:26:23.260 --> 01:26:26.420 a 24 -hour shift just for yourself. You can do 01:26:26.420 --> 01:26:28.079 whatever. You don't have to wait because you're 01:26:28.079 --> 01:26:30.279 not going to work the next day. And then the 01:26:30.279 --> 01:26:32.159 next day, you're gearing up, getting ready for 01:26:32.159 --> 01:26:35.460 the next 24. Exactly. So those three days right 01:26:35.460 --> 01:26:40.300 there are very... very critical to a 24 -hour 01:26:40.300 --> 01:26:43.760 shift. Now, 24 -48, horrendous. That's a horrendous 01:26:43.760 --> 01:26:45.600 schedule because you only have one day to recuperate 01:26:45.600 --> 01:26:48.079 and one day to gear back up. And then you're 01:26:48.079 --> 01:26:51.119 back at it again. So I would not want to do a 01:26:51.119 --> 01:26:53.020 24 -48 again. That's what we had at Salisbury. 01:26:53.840 --> 01:27:00.300 And there was a few other variations of on a 01:27:00.300 --> 01:27:03.020 day, off a day, on a day, off a day, on a day, 01:27:03.039 --> 01:27:06.939 off 96. And those were... okay but the 24 72 01:27:06.939 --> 01:27:10.260 schedule is a very it's like you said it has 01:27:10.260 --> 01:27:12.920 the most benefits of all the schedules i've seen 01:27:12.920 --> 01:27:16.239 do you have do you have vacancies are you filling 01:27:16.239 --> 01:27:19.100 with overtime at the moment either volunteered 01:27:19.100 --> 01:27:22.720 or mandatory we're having we're having a lot 01:27:22.720 --> 01:27:25.859 of vacancies just because that's just the way 01:27:25.859 --> 01:27:29.340 training that's just the way vacation falls around 01:27:29.340 --> 01:27:33.119 this time period so hunting around hunting season 01:27:33.119 --> 01:27:37.899 the holidays and over the summer. And honestly, 01:27:38.039 --> 01:27:40.819 it starts in the summer. So in the summer, you 01:27:40.819 --> 01:27:42.939 start seeing more higher backs, more overtime 01:27:42.939 --> 01:27:46.300 shifts. Then when it starts to hit hunting season, 01:27:46.460 --> 01:27:48.460 you're going to see a bunch of overtime shifts. 01:27:48.859 --> 01:27:51.279 And then the holidays, it's going to be a lot 01:27:51.279 --> 01:27:53.720 of overtime. Getting close to the point where 01:27:53.720 --> 01:27:56.039 we have the mandatory higher backs. So the way 01:27:56.039 --> 01:28:00.140 our mandatory policy is, is every Kelly has a 01:28:00.140 --> 01:28:03.640 week. So if I'm on number eight, then when i'm 01:28:03.640 --> 01:28:07.000 on kelly that whole week i'm on mandatory so 01:28:07.000 --> 01:28:10.420 at any point they can call me leaving shift or 01:28:10.420 --> 01:28:13.439 at home and say hey you're on mando you need 01:28:13.439 --> 01:28:15.560 to come back in and you gotta report to duty 01:28:15.560 --> 01:28:20.000 so that's the that's the best way they could 01:28:20.000 --> 01:28:23.500 come up with to enact or i guess you could say 01:28:23.500 --> 01:28:28.039 enforce mandatories is to say well it's your 01:28:28.039 --> 01:28:31.010 kelly week so you're definitely going to be off. 01:28:31.109 --> 01:28:33.649 So we can definitely have you come in and work 01:28:33.649 --> 01:28:36.770 higher back. You know what I mean? So work overtime. 01:28:36.970 --> 01:28:39.270 So this is what's interesting is when people 01:28:39.270 --> 01:28:41.350 say there isn't the money, well, the money is 01:28:41.350 --> 01:28:44.369 all the overtime that's unneeded, you know, then 01:28:44.369 --> 01:28:46.569 also the lack of retention, people that leave 01:28:46.569 --> 01:28:48.810 their department after they trained them and 01:28:48.810 --> 01:28:51.329 they go somewhere else. And then when you look 01:28:51.329 --> 01:28:53.510 at Kelly's, it's a staffing nightmare too, because 01:28:53.510 --> 01:28:55.890 when someone who's supposed to be in that seat, 01:28:55.949 --> 01:28:59.420 isn't. now either you offer them time and a half 01:28:59.420 --> 01:29:01.659 to be in that seat or you know you gotta you 01:29:01.659 --> 01:29:04.899 gotta force someone else to come in so if you've 01:29:04.899 --> 01:29:07.319 already got kelly days and you've got extra bodies 01:29:07.319 --> 01:29:10.119 on the truck you would probably only need i'm 01:29:10.119 --> 01:29:12.659 just guessing now a third of a shift to create 01:29:12.659 --> 01:29:15.439 an entire d shift and i guarantee you that money 01:29:15.439 --> 01:29:18.180 is probably in the retention an overtime budget 01:29:18.180 --> 01:29:21.500 alone so it's really interesting you know when 01:29:21.500 --> 01:29:23.220 people kind of moving these these i always call 01:29:23.220 --> 01:29:24.979 it the rubix cube they're moving the colors around 01:29:24.979 --> 01:29:26.960 rather than looking at the cube saying well how 01:29:26.960 --> 01:29:29.340 can we make the cube smaller but now you've got 01:29:29.340 --> 01:29:31.539 a fourth platoon you've got another entire ship 01:29:31.539 --> 01:29:33.439 that you can lean on and now you don't have to 01:29:33.439 --> 01:29:35.119 worry about kelly's there are no kelly's you're 01:29:35.119 --> 01:29:36.659 not staffing you're not moving people around 01:29:36.659 --> 01:29:38.859 so it sounds like you guys are actually in a 01:29:38.859 --> 01:29:41.100 great position to do that so i hope they will 01:29:41.100 --> 01:29:44.060 look seriously at the 24 72 because you've got 01:29:44.060 --> 01:29:46.869 all the pieces now And instead of being murdered 01:29:46.869 --> 01:29:50.390 for a tour to get to that four days off, you 01:29:50.390 --> 01:29:53.770 just do a 24 and you've got three days off every 01:29:53.770 --> 01:29:57.609 single time. Yeah. And I think one of the things 01:29:57.609 --> 01:30:00.930 they said about until we hire enough people for 01:30:00.930 --> 01:30:03.130 that is called debit days based off of your Kelly. 01:30:03.569 --> 01:30:06.649 Okay, you're Kelly or you can put in days that 01:30:06.649 --> 01:30:09.250 you want to work higher back. So you would work 01:30:09.250 --> 01:30:11.229 and then you'd be on higher back to fill that 01:30:11.229 --> 01:30:13.989 delta shift until we hire enough people. Yep. 01:30:14.250 --> 01:30:16.710 to cover it. And I was like, I can see that. 01:30:16.770 --> 01:30:19.710 It's just going to take time as far as getting 01:30:19.710 --> 01:30:22.890 the information and education together to see 01:30:22.890 --> 01:30:28.310 if we can provide a fourth shift. Because I see 01:30:28.310 --> 01:30:31.869 the benefits of being able to sleep on that third. 01:30:31.949 --> 01:30:35.170 But the thing is, too, our part -time jobs are 01:30:35.170 --> 01:30:38.550 not taken into consideration when they say, okay, 01:30:38.590 --> 01:30:40.310 you're going to be off for three days. Like some 01:30:40.310 --> 01:30:43.579 people go from Charlotte. to a part -time job 01:30:43.579 --> 01:30:47.279 or from their from their full -time fire job 01:30:47.279 --> 01:30:51.500 to a part -time fire job and those days aren't 01:30:51.500 --> 01:30:54.000 taking into consideration your recovery you know 01:30:54.000 --> 01:30:56.000 what i mean yeah well i think that's a very valid 01:30:56.000 --> 01:30:58.060 point because i get a lot of people usually chief 01:30:58.060 --> 01:30:59.800 saying well if we give them more time off they'll 01:30:59.800 --> 01:31:01.920 just work more and i always say well firstly 01:31:01.920 --> 01:31:04.000 that's a very arrogant statement that you're 01:31:04.000 --> 01:31:06.119 in charge of people on their days off but i'll 01:31:06.119 --> 01:31:09.970 buy If you have a healthy shift, so you've done 01:31:09.970 --> 01:31:12.569 your part as an employer to create a 42 -hour 01:31:12.569 --> 01:31:15.149 work week for your people, there is nothing wrong 01:31:15.149 --> 01:31:18.810 with saying, but there will be a stipulation 01:31:18.810 --> 01:31:21.770 that you absolutely can work on your days off. 01:31:21.850 --> 01:31:24.250 No one's saying you can't, but you can't work 01:31:24.250 --> 01:31:26.550 overnight. So you can't take, like you said, 01:31:26.670 --> 01:31:29.369 a 12 -hour overnight shift at a fire department 01:31:29.369 --> 01:31:32.670 or an ER or a private ambulance company because, 01:31:32.710 --> 01:31:35.229 yeah, we do need you to be rested and recover 01:31:35.229 --> 01:31:38.810 to come back in. But you either work for someone 01:31:38.810 --> 01:31:40.609 else or you're an entrepreneur and you have your 01:31:40.609 --> 01:31:43.029 own business, hanging drywall, landscaping, personal 01:31:43.029 --> 01:31:45.510 training, swim coach, whatever your thing is. 01:31:45.789 --> 01:31:47.649 And you go home at night and you have dinner 01:31:47.649 --> 01:31:49.210 with your family and you sleep in your own bed. 01:31:49.329 --> 01:31:52.069 There is nothing, nothing wrong with that if 01:31:52.069 --> 01:31:54.270 you need some extra money. And I think it's good. 01:31:54.350 --> 01:31:56.609 You have a second identity, a second tribe, a 01:31:56.609 --> 01:31:59.130 second income. God forbid you get fired or hurt. 01:31:59.590 --> 01:32:02.329 So I think there's a middle ground where, yeah, 01:32:02.390 --> 01:32:04.529 there's a responsibility for the individual to 01:32:04.529 --> 01:32:07.310 rest when they're in the days off. But that doesn't 01:32:07.310 --> 01:32:10.109 mean you cannot work. It's just which type of 01:32:10.109 --> 01:32:12.970 jobs are okay. And then there's a few, very, 01:32:13.069 --> 01:32:14.909 very small amount. You'd be like, all right, 01:32:14.949 --> 01:32:16.569 well, this is going to require you not to sleep 01:32:16.569 --> 01:32:19.670 all night. That's not allowed if you're going 01:32:19.670 --> 01:32:21.630 to be in that. And I don't think anyone would 01:32:21.630 --> 01:32:23.930 have an issue with that at all. Because if you're 01:32:23.930 --> 01:32:26.649 not working more shifts at a fire department 01:32:26.649 --> 01:32:28.989 because you're fully staffed now and overtime 01:32:28.989 --> 01:32:31.829 is few and far between. then now it inspires 01:32:31.829 --> 01:32:34.329 people that what else do I love doing? All right, 01:32:34.350 --> 01:32:36.869 I'm going to go start doing cabinetry because 01:32:36.869 --> 01:32:38.989 I've always loved woodwork and I'm going to start 01:32:38.989 --> 01:32:41.590 a side job there. Beautiful. I think that's a 01:32:41.590 --> 01:32:46.729 great idea. And yeah, it has its perks as far 01:32:46.729 --> 01:32:49.010 as having that time off, especially when it comes 01:32:49.010 --> 01:32:52.489 to vacation because the other schedule that was 01:32:52.489 --> 01:32:58.250 up was the 4896. Or, yeah, 4896. And I was like, 01:32:58.270 --> 01:33:00.729 there's no way. No, it's insane. Absolute insanity. 01:33:01.069 --> 01:33:03.970 I don't want that one. Because two days, especially 01:33:03.970 --> 01:33:06.729 I was at 15. I mean, it was like two days of 01:33:06.729 --> 01:33:09.470 getting beat down. And like, everybody's like, 01:33:09.550 --> 01:33:11.729 oh, you sleep in that second day. There's been 01:33:11.729 --> 01:33:14.869 so many times I'd get woke up at six o 'clock 01:33:14.869 --> 01:33:17.310 or seven o 'clock. And I'll say, oh, my shift 01:33:17.310 --> 01:33:19.109 starts at eight, but I'm running. Or I'd come 01:33:19.109 --> 01:33:23.109 in early and run a seven o 'clock call for the 01:33:23.109 --> 01:33:26.159 person I'm relieving. And it's like, no, you 01:33:26.159 --> 01:33:28.659 won't get to sleep in. You won't get to sleep 01:33:28.659 --> 01:33:31.020 in. That second day won't be like a Sunday if 01:33:31.020 --> 01:33:32.739 you got to get training knocked out. You have 01:33:32.739 --> 01:33:35.100 to get hose testing knocked out. You know, you 01:33:35.100 --> 01:33:37.920 got to test hydrants. It's not going to be a 01:33:37.920 --> 01:33:39.920 sit around the station day. You're going to work. 01:33:40.560 --> 01:33:42.159 Because that's what we do. We're going to run 01:33:42.159 --> 01:33:45.260 calls. We're going to work. So it's hard to do 01:33:45.260 --> 01:33:47.520 two days straight. I mean, and the thing is, 01:33:47.539 --> 01:33:49.439 too, some people are like, well, I do two days 01:33:49.439 --> 01:33:52.489 when I do my normal shift in a higher back. so 01:33:52.489 --> 01:33:54.090 what's wrong with doing two days on my normal 01:33:54.090 --> 01:33:55.829 shift and then having four days off and i was 01:33:55.829 --> 01:33:58.550 like cuz you're doing a hire back you know you're 01:33:58.550 --> 01:34:02.149 working and you're like i'm here filling in i'm 01:34:02.149 --> 01:34:05.390 gonna put up the same work but it's it's it's 01:34:05.390 --> 01:34:07.449 got a different it's got a different context 01:34:07.449 --> 01:34:09.949 to it you know i mean it really boils down to 01:34:09.949 --> 01:34:13.010 just the science as well like it is nothing short 01:34:13.010 --> 01:34:15.609 of dangerous to be awake two days straight and 01:34:15.609 --> 01:34:18.869 and yes we might not always be awake awake but 01:34:19.420 --> 01:34:22.039 disrupted sleep. Like you are waiting to be woken 01:34:22.039 --> 01:34:24.479 up. And again, I always advocate for the people 01:34:24.479 --> 01:34:27.420 in the busy stations, the midside stations, you 01:34:27.420 --> 01:34:28.479 know what I mean? The ones that are running. 01:34:28.859 --> 01:34:31.340 Yes, there are some anomalies, the sleepy stations 01:34:31.340 --> 01:34:33.359 where they run one call a shift, but you know 01:34:33.359 --> 01:34:35.439 what? Usually, like we said, they're the veterans 01:34:35.439 --> 01:34:38.960 that have done 20, 25 years already. But if you 01:34:38.960 --> 01:34:42.119 look at any, any sleep medicine whatsoever, it 01:34:42.119 --> 01:34:44.979 is completely undisputed that it is irresponsible. 01:34:45.579 --> 01:34:48.310 Like we're pushing it on a 24 hour shift. When 01:34:48.310 --> 01:34:50.550 you start going beyond that, now you're just 01:34:50.550 --> 01:34:53.689 unprofessional, unethical, and dangerous, acutely 01:34:53.689 --> 01:34:55.930 and chronically. So that's the argument against 01:34:55.930 --> 01:34:59.369 the 48, is that no one in the world, and even 01:34:59.369 --> 01:35:01.770 studies, I mean, coming back to your research, 01:35:01.970 --> 01:35:06.270 if you try to create a study that mimicked a 01:35:06.270 --> 01:35:10.489 firefighter's month, so you do in a busy department 01:35:10.489 --> 01:35:13.590 in 2025 where you've got understaffing and mandatory 01:35:13.590 --> 01:35:16.310 overtime, so you need these participants to be 01:35:16.310 --> 01:35:20.699 awake. 24 hours every third day and then you've 01:35:20.699 --> 01:35:23.760 got to mimic the overtime and then also a 48 01:35:23.760 --> 01:35:26.859 or 72 if you want to mimic like the west coast 01:35:26.859 --> 01:35:30.720 schedule at least twice a month as well no study 01:35:30.720 --> 01:35:32.979 ethics committee would approve that because they'd 01:35:32.979 --> 01:35:35.000 say this is dangerous this is unethical we won't 01:35:35.000 --> 01:35:37.180 let you do it and that's how we work our firefighters 01:35:37.180 --> 01:35:40.420 and i always tell people there's three reasons 01:35:40.420 --> 01:35:43.039 we deliberately use sleep deprivation special 01:35:43.039 --> 01:35:45.159 forces selection which is just for a few days 01:35:46.389 --> 01:35:50.390 Interrogation and torture. That's it. That's 01:35:50.390 --> 01:35:52.050 what we do to ourselves. What about the four 01:35:52.050 --> 01:35:53.649 days? It's like, well, hold on. I thought you 01:35:53.649 --> 01:35:56.090 were actually wanting to help other people. Well, 01:35:56.130 --> 01:35:59.050 you're a liability 30, 60 hours in when you're 01:35:59.050 --> 01:36:02.069 driving lights and sirens with everyone's family 01:36:02.069 --> 01:36:04.510 in these roads and you're doing pediatric drug 01:36:04.510 --> 01:36:07.350 calculations in your head. So for safety and 01:36:07.350 --> 01:36:09.949 for efficacy and professionalism, I think the 01:36:09.949 --> 01:36:12.569 24 is exactly where it should be. And if you 01:36:12.569 --> 01:36:15.699 have a 2472. and you need to do overtime, like 01:36:15.699 --> 01:36:17.439 you said, it's hunting season, it's Christmas, 01:36:17.579 --> 01:36:21.600 that's when you can do a 24 off and then a 24 01:36:21.600 --> 01:36:24.699 on to fill that overtime that day. Once in a 01:36:24.699 --> 01:36:27.260 while, at least you got a night's sleep in between 01:36:27.260 --> 01:36:32.380 the two of them. But the 48, 72, 96, they should 01:36:32.380 --> 01:36:36.920 never even be allowed. It's tough. It's tough 01:36:36.920 --> 01:36:40.220 because when you sit back and you think about... 01:36:40.760 --> 01:36:43.720 48 hours straight on a busy engine company. Engine 01:36:43.720 --> 01:36:48.319 15 would run, we would shoot for a quota of 15 01:36:48.319 --> 01:36:52.260 calls a shift. So that's 30 calls in 48 hours. 01:36:52.460 --> 01:36:54.439 You know what I mean? And it's just like, the 01:36:54.439 --> 01:36:58.500 most I've ran was 26 calls in 24 hours at 15. 01:36:58.699 --> 01:37:01.439 And I was like, man, I'm about to die. I got 01:37:01.439 --> 01:37:03.760 home and this was over the summer. I had got 01:37:03.760 --> 01:37:05.840 home and I was talking to my wife about something 01:37:05.840 --> 01:37:08.760 and I laid on the floor face down and I passed 01:37:08.760 --> 01:37:11.909 out. and my kids my older one of my older kids 01:37:11.909 --> 01:37:14.250 comes in he looks at me he's like is he asleep 01:37:14.250 --> 01:37:17.189 and she's like yeah he's like has he sleep like 01:37:17.189 --> 01:37:20.850 that i was so tired and i was like that's crazy 01:37:20.850 --> 01:37:23.310 but like when we talk about when you talk about 01:37:23.310 --> 01:37:25.529 sleep deprivation or even just sleep disruptions 01:37:25.529 --> 01:37:27.970 what what's the what's the science say about 01:37:27.970 --> 01:37:33.279 one disruption in sleep is equivalent to A blood 01:37:33.279 --> 01:37:38.119 alcohol content of a drunk person? Yeah. 24 hours 01:37:38.119 --> 01:37:40.199 without sleep is the same as having a blood alcohol 01:37:40.199 --> 01:37:42.840 of 0 .1. And what's interesting is if you think 01:37:42.840 --> 01:37:46.100 about going back to your study, that study is 01:37:46.100 --> 01:37:48.399 probably done at a college. They probably had 01:37:48.399 --> 01:37:52.239 college students volunteer to be the recipient. 01:37:52.319 --> 01:37:55.819 It's a single night's sleep. And I think actually 01:37:55.819 --> 01:37:58.079 it's not even no sleep. I think it was just a 01:37:58.079 --> 01:37:59.880 reduced amount of sleep, to be honest, if you 01:37:59.880 --> 01:38:03.770 look at the studies. regardless so you've got 01:38:03.770 --> 01:38:05.829 kids that are probably sleeping every single 01:38:05.829 --> 01:38:07.949 night aside from maybe some you know like you 01:38:07.949 --> 01:38:09.689 said some drinking at college in the weekends 01:38:09.689 --> 01:38:13.430 now you put that into a 20 -year veteran in the 01:38:13.430 --> 01:38:17.970 fire service that 24 they've done that 24 you 01:38:17.970 --> 01:38:20.829 know what is it i mean hundreds and hundreds 01:38:20.829 --> 01:38:23.670 and hundreds of times by that so is it 0 .1 still 01:38:23.670 --> 01:38:27.189 no i think it's probably way past that and that's 01:38:27.189 --> 01:38:30.229 without a 48 you know, now we're in another place. 01:38:30.250 --> 01:38:32.590 You see what I'm saying? So if you and I would 01:38:32.590 --> 01:38:36.689 be cuffed, if we had a blue, a 0 .9 or 0 .09, 01:38:36.810 --> 01:38:39.149 excuse me. And yet we're driving engines and 01:38:39.149 --> 01:38:42.489 trucks around with a, you know, 0 .12 or whatever 01:38:42.489 --> 01:38:45.149 it will be. I know this, I mean, it's insanity 01:38:45.149 --> 01:38:46.609 when you put it that way, but you're absolutely 01:38:46.609 --> 01:38:50.289 right. Cognitively. we are so depleted after 01:38:50.289 --> 01:38:53.329 that 24 hours without sleep. So, you know, you 01:38:53.329 --> 01:38:56.270 do 24, you know, I like the idea of even doing 01:38:56.270 --> 01:38:58.649 the latest start time. So you get to sleep a 01:38:58.649 --> 01:39:00.670 little bit before you drive home. Hopefully you 01:39:00.670 --> 01:39:03.550 come through the door, you made it safely. And 01:39:03.550 --> 01:39:06.329 then you're also not so destroyed that you can 01:39:06.329 --> 01:39:08.050 actually sit down and play with your kids rather 01:39:08.050 --> 01:39:10.170 than face plant on the carpet and fall asleep. 01:39:10.550 --> 01:39:12.989 Yeah. Cause there's sometimes when you like, 01:39:13.050 --> 01:39:16.170 and every, every firefighter that I've asked, 01:39:16.539 --> 01:39:18.739 when they leave after a busy shift and it says 01:39:18.739 --> 01:39:20.960 you know that time when you're driving and then 01:39:20.960 --> 01:39:24.439 you're at exit 20 you're just driving on autopilot 01:39:24.439 --> 01:39:26.180 and also you look over it's exit 30 you're like 01:39:26.180 --> 01:39:29.739 what happened yeah i lost 10 miles of driving 01:39:29.739 --> 01:39:33.060 or whatever and it's just like that that's the 01:39:33.060 --> 01:39:34.739 that's the dangerous part next you know your 01:39:34.739 --> 01:39:37.960 your muscle memory or your your just just by 01:39:37.960 --> 01:39:40.319 habit you're like oh that's my exit and you look 01:39:40.319 --> 01:39:42.180 up you know i've been driving it's like your 01:39:42.180 --> 01:39:44.260 body knows it's been driving long enough that 01:39:44.260 --> 01:39:46.590 your exit is coming your exit is coming So you 01:39:46.590 --> 01:39:48.310 take your exit next to your home and you're like, 01:39:48.350 --> 01:39:50.949 how do I get home? And that's the hard part about 01:39:50.949 --> 01:39:54.409 being busy because being busy is how you become 01:39:54.409 --> 01:39:57.149 a better firefighter. That's how you learn, being 01:39:57.149 --> 01:39:59.609 busy. Get on a busy engine company, get on a 01:39:59.609 --> 01:40:02.270 busy ladder company, running fires, running calls. 01:40:02.810 --> 01:40:05.590 As a captain, you're writing, you're doing reports. 01:40:05.770 --> 01:40:08.350 You're actually getting through calls as a captain. 01:40:08.829 --> 01:40:11.250 And then that's how you learn how to be better. 01:40:11.529 --> 01:40:16.739 But then it takes so much of a toll on you. every 01:40:16.739 --> 01:40:18.840 time because like you said sleep deprivation 01:40:18.840 --> 01:40:21.619 and i i want to say that doctor said something 01:40:21.619 --> 01:40:24.960 about sleep deprivation and cancer t -cells like 01:40:24.960 --> 01:40:27.000 if you don't get enough sleep REM sleep your 01:40:27.000 --> 01:40:29.060 body can't produce the right cells to battle 01:40:29.060 --> 01:40:33.359 to combat cancer cells and i was like okay i 01:40:33.359 --> 01:40:35.439 can't remember i gotta go back and look and see 01:40:35.439 --> 01:40:37.500 what doctor it was yeah it's probably current 01:40:37.500 --> 01:40:39.479 parsley because yeah i mean if you look at sleep 01:40:39.479 --> 01:40:42.829 deprivation everything that we suffer from It 01:40:42.829 --> 01:40:45.289 is part of the, it amplifies the issue. So the 01:40:45.289 --> 01:40:47.569 low testosterone that we see in the fire service, 01:40:47.630 --> 01:40:50.609 sleep deprivation, addiction, suicide, depression, 01:40:50.869 --> 01:40:53.409 anxiety, sleep deprivation is a massive, because 01:40:53.409 --> 01:40:56.729 you heal, the brain takes a bath literally when 01:40:56.729 --> 01:40:59.270 you sleep. So we're seeing all these things and 01:40:59.270 --> 01:41:00.909 we're not sleeping. It's just, it's building 01:41:00.909 --> 01:41:04.250 up. Cancer, like you said, shift work is a known 01:41:04.250 --> 01:41:07.189 carcinogen. The WHO, World Health Organization 01:41:07.189 --> 01:41:09.670 has it classified. I think it's 2A if I got that 01:41:09.670 --> 01:41:12.350 right. So, you know, obesity, I mean, you know, 01:41:12.369 --> 01:41:15.229 strokes, all these things that you see killing 01:41:15.229 --> 01:41:18.670 us, that is one of the big risk factors of it. 01:41:18.750 --> 01:41:21.310 So why would we not address the thing that we 01:41:21.310 --> 01:41:23.869 know is contributing to all of these on top of, 01:41:23.890 --> 01:41:26.029 you know, fitness standards and, you know, making 01:41:26.029 --> 01:41:27.989 sure everyone's fit and healthy so that we bring 01:41:27.989 --> 01:41:29.750 down some of the heart disease and some of the 01:41:29.750 --> 01:41:32.510 other areas too. But yeah, sleep is a superpower. 01:41:32.770 --> 01:41:34.789 And now I've had so many people from the sports 01:41:34.789 --> 01:41:36.850 world say, look, if you're not sleeping properly, 01:41:37.029 --> 01:41:39.750 then your strength training or your nutrition, 01:41:40.409 --> 01:41:43.590 almost means nothing like sleep is the very first 01:41:43.590 --> 01:41:46.310 pillar of health that we need to address and 01:41:46.310 --> 01:41:48.149 that's one of the things that like i said when 01:41:48.149 --> 01:41:52.130 i did my cbd research everything fell by the 01:41:52.130 --> 01:41:54.750 wayside except for sleep because sleep was the 01:41:54.750 --> 01:41:57.789 root cause of everything so the more i looked 01:41:57.789 --> 01:42:01.689 into sleep um i saw i recently picked up one 01:42:01.689 --> 01:42:06.890 that said sleep apnea is a concrete a complete 01:42:08.199 --> 01:42:12.159 How do you say catalyst of PTSD? Because your 01:42:12.159 --> 01:42:14.180 nervous system, when you have sleep apnea, because 01:42:14.180 --> 01:42:16.579 I have sleep apnea, I have a machine. Your nervous 01:42:16.579 --> 01:42:20.319 system is always being activated when you have 01:42:20.319 --> 01:42:22.279 sleep apnea because you're not breathing. So 01:42:22.279 --> 01:42:24.119 your body thinks you're dying and it startles 01:42:24.119 --> 01:42:26.979 you to wake. The same thing happens when we get 01:42:26.979 --> 01:42:30.180 calls. Our nervous system gets startled or we're 01:42:30.180 --> 01:42:32.260 already in high alert. And if you're trying to 01:42:32.260 --> 01:42:34.640 sleep, which means you're going up and down all 01:42:34.640 --> 01:42:38.050 shift, running calls, running fires. nothing 01:42:38.050 --> 01:42:41.449 nothing for hours then you go to a pediatric 01:42:41.449 --> 01:42:45.770 call you go to a grandma nothing for hours now 01:42:45.770 --> 01:42:47.850 you're trying to sleep you get a call in the 01:42:47.850 --> 01:42:49.729 middle of the night you kind of come back and 01:42:49.729 --> 01:42:51.949 lay down and go to sleep and you can't and a 01:42:51.949 --> 01:42:55.170 lot of people reached out to me about cbd for 01:42:55.170 --> 01:42:58.869 sleep and i was like okay there's got to be something 01:42:58.869 --> 01:43:01.649 there if a lot of people are like i don't sleep 01:43:01.649 --> 01:43:03.930 good i can only sleep good when i'm at the station 01:43:03.930 --> 01:43:06.880 i can't sleep good at home i'm like that's That's 01:43:06.880 --> 01:43:10.579 rough. Matty Roberts said it in Waves and War. 01:43:10.720 --> 01:43:13.340 He said when he was deployed, he said this is 01:43:13.340 --> 01:43:15.159 the only time I've gotten a good night's sleep 01:43:15.159 --> 01:43:18.180 was being deployed. And I was like, that's crazy 01:43:18.180 --> 01:43:19.600 because some people say that about the station. 01:43:20.079 --> 01:43:21.859 I can only sleep good when I'm here at the fire 01:43:21.859 --> 01:43:24.180 station. I can't sleep good at home. You know, 01:43:24.199 --> 01:43:26.260 your family goes to sleep and you're just walking 01:43:26.260 --> 01:43:28.479 around trying to figure out something to do at 01:43:28.479 --> 01:43:31.159 10 o 'clock at night, 11 o 'clock at night when 01:43:31.159 --> 01:43:33.100 you should be sleeping. But at the station, you're 01:43:33.100 --> 01:43:35.069 like. I need to go to sleep because I know we're 01:43:35.069 --> 01:43:38.550 going to run calls tonight, you know? So that's 01:43:38.550 --> 01:43:41.590 where I, that's where my, with the psychedelics 01:43:41.590 --> 01:43:44.189 and sleep studies and stuff like that, that's 01:43:44.189 --> 01:43:47.250 the two things I'm focusing on is psychedelics 01:43:47.250 --> 01:43:51.069 for the PTSD side of it. And then sleep as far 01:43:51.069 --> 01:43:53.329 as like the maintenance side of it, because like 01:43:53.329 --> 01:43:55.529 you said, nothing matters if you don't sleep 01:43:55.529 --> 01:43:59.770 good. Well, I've also said this, when we talk 01:43:59.770 --> 01:44:03.750 about we die five years after retirement or 12 01:44:03.750 --> 01:44:08.550 years younger than the average American, those 01:44:08.550 --> 01:44:10.649 numbers should be even more scary because if 01:44:10.649 --> 01:44:12.810 you look at who toes the line on a drill ground, 01:44:13.069 --> 01:44:15.409 I would argue we're some of the most physically 01:44:15.409 --> 01:44:18.470 and mentally fit members of society. That's why 01:44:18.470 --> 01:44:22.449 we made the cut. So then fast forward, the number 01:44:22.449 --> 01:44:25.229 of dorms I can think of now in fire stations 01:44:25.229 --> 01:44:27.329 that look like the bar in Star Wars, there were 01:44:27.329 --> 01:44:30.210 so many CPAPs everywhere. The question is why? 01:44:30.329 --> 01:44:33.829 These should be very fit for a 50 -year -old 01:44:33.829 --> 01:44:37.090 still. Why are we seeing apnea? But again, what 01:44:37.090 --> 01:44:39.270 is the common denominator? Whether you run in 01:44:39.270 --> 01:44:41.930 a station that sees fire all the time or like 01:44:41.930 --> 01:44:44.210 my last place, mainly EMS, but you're getting 01:44:44.210 --> 01:44:46.850 up three, four, five times a night, there's your 01:44:46.850 --> 01:44:50.430 correlation. Most people... should not be relying 01:44:50.430 --> 01:44:53.069 on a CPAP in their, I mean, really at all, but 01:44:53.069 --> 01:44:55.449 certainly in their 40s and 50s when they're tactical 01:44:55.449 --> 01:44:58.550 athletes. But that is something that we see throughout 01:44:58.550 --> 01:45:01.069 the whole fire service. So there's a red flag 01:45:01.069 --> 01:45:03.989 for me. Because people like, we'll see people 01:45:03.989 --> 01:45:07.130 wake up and they'll have the CPAP lines from 01:45:07.130 --> 01:45:09.850 their masks. I'm just like, gosh. And I started 01:45:09.850 --> 01:45:12.350 looking into it. It's just like our shift work 01:45:12.350 --> 01:45:16.510 getting disrupted. Our nervous system, just like 01:45:16.510 --> 01:45:19.359 trauma. our nervous system gets into a habit 01:45:19.359 --> 01:45:22.979 it gets into a pig path of waking up all the 01:45:22.979 --> 01:45:26.220 time so that's what creates the sleep apnea is 01:45:26.220 --> 01:45:29.399 you're trying to sleep so hard that you're startling 01:45:29.399 --> 01:45:31.460 yourself awake like you're getting ready to run 01:45:31.460 --> 01:45:36.060 a call but yeah well i want to be mindful of 01:45:36.060 --> 01:45:37.619 your time i know we're close to two hours now 01:45:37.619 --> 01:45:39.460 so i want to throw some quick closing questions 01:45:39.460 --> 01:45:42.710 at you before i let you go okay First one I love 01:45:42.710 --> 01:45:45.250 to ask, is there a book or are there books that 01:45:45.250 --> 01:45:47.590 you love to recommend? It can be related to our 01:45:47.590 --> 01:45:51.010 discussion today or completely unrelated. So 01:45:51.010 --> 01:45:55.130 I listened to, is it Travis Howsey, Travis Howes, 01:45:55.130 --> 01:45:57.670 the Charleston Nine. I listened to his Make Your 01:45:57.670 --> 01:46:01.470 Own Light book. Matthew McConaughey's Green Lights 01:46:01.470 --> 01:46:04.250 book. For some reason, I listened to the whole 01:46:04.250 --> 01:46:06.369 thing and I was just like, Matthew McConaughey 01:46:06.369 --> 01:46:09.550 is pretty cool. He's a pretty cool dude. The 01:46:09.550 --> 01:46:15.130 things he's got going on. I want to say it's 01:46:15.130 --> 01:46:18.890 called Imagine Heaven. It's a book about near 01:46:18.890 --> 01:46:21.850 -death experiences. And I want to preface that. 01:46:21.970 --> 01:46:24.670 So when I was watching it in Waves and War, I 01:46:24.670 --> 01:46:26.510 had done some research on near -death experiences 01:46:26.510 --> 01:46:31.409 also. And the way they explain their experience 01:46:31.409 --> 01:46:35.529 on DMT and Ibogaine, it sounded so much similar 01:46:35.529 --> 01:46:39.670 to a near -death experience. Let me double check 01:46:39.670 --> 01:46:41.479 and make sure that's the right book. I want to 01:46:41.479 --> 01:46:43.180 say it's called Imagine Heaven by John Burke. 01:46:43.779 --> 01:46:47.239 And he did a bunch of research on near -death 01:46:47.239 --> 01:46:51.340 experiences. And he interviewed kids, older guys, 01:46:51.560 --> 01:46:55.079 older women, people that were incarcerated that 01:46:55.079 --> 01:46:57.720 had near -death experience. He did so many interviews 01:46:57.720 --> 01:47:00.760 on near -death experiences. And he wrote a book 01:47:00.760 --> 01:47:04.520 about it. And I was like, the way they said, 01:47:04.600 --> 01:47:09.079 the way Marcus and DJ Shipley said. They would 01:47:09.079 --> 01:47:11.119 go through a door, go through a drawer, pick 01:47:11.119 --> 01:47:12.899 a picture, and it would go to that point in life. 01:47:13.420 --> 01:47:15.199 Near -death experiences have the same thing in 01:47:15.199 --> 01:47:18.420 your life review. They die, you have a life review, 01:47:18.500 --> 01:47:21.060 and Jesus asks you, what have you done with the 01:47:21.060 --> 01:47:24.539 life I've given you? And you answer, you know, 01:47:24.560 --> 01:47:26.439 then he shows you your life. And I was like, 01:47:26.539 --> 01:47:29.119 oh, wow. And I mean, it was the correlation between 01:47:29.119 --> 01:47:32.159 all of his experiences, interviews was the same. 01:47:32.819 --> 01:47:37.229 So Imagine Heaven is a good one. And then Green 01:47:37.229 --> 01:47:39.689 Lights by Matthew McConaughey. It's his autobiography, 01:47:39.770 --> 01:47:45.149 just snippets. And Travis Howe's book, Make Your 01:47:45.149 --> 01:47:48.189 Own Light. And your book. Well, thank you. Your 01:47:48.189 --> 01:47:51.050 book's really, I've been listening to it. Like 01:47:51.050 --> 01:47:54.050 I said, I listened to it nonstop. It was pretty 01:47:54.050 --> 01:47:57.609 good. Thank you. I appreciate it. What about 01:47:57.609 --> 01:48:00.510 films, television, documentaries, any of those 01:48:00.510 --> 01:48:03.689 that you love? So I'm really big in sci -fi. 01:48:03.750 --> 01:48:07.970 So anything science fiction. I'm Star Wars. Stranger 01:48:07.970 --> 01:48:10.550 Things is probably my favorite show of all time. 01:48:10.609 --> 01:48:13.010 I don't know if you've seen it, but it is. But 01:48:13.010 --> 01:48:17.050 Lucas said something in there that kind of resonated 01:48:17.050 --> 01:48:18.970 with me, that there's no coincidences in life 01:48:18.970 --> 01:48:22.630 anymore. And I was like, when he said it, I was 01:48:22.630 --> 01:48:24.829 thinking about what happened with us and the 01:48:24.829 --> 01:48:26.949 whole DJ Shipley thing, and I was like, that's 01:48:26.949 --> 01:48:29.409 not a coincidence. That happened for a reason. 01:48:29.529 --> 01:48:35.859 I agree. But in Waves and War, definitely. Definitely 01:48:35.859 --> 01:48:38.279 one of the ones that I've really gravitated to. 01:48:38.939 --> 01:48:43.159 And I'm really big on military movies. I watch 01:48:43.159 --> 01:48:47.600 Warfare. It resonated with me. Lone Survivor, 01:48:47.640 --> 01:48:53.319 13 Hours. And it's not necessarily what happened 01:48:53.319 --> 01:48:57.399 to them. It's just like I feel, oh, and Only 01:48:57.399 --> 01:48:58.979 the Brave. I watched that the other day, and 01:48:58.979 --> 01:49:00.560 I was just like, this movie. I watched it by 01:49:00.560 --> 01:49:02.329 myself. Because I was like, I don't want anybody 01:49:02.329 --> 01:49:05.529 to see me cry watching this movie. It is powerful. 01:49:06.609 --> 01:49:10.069 It's a powerful movie. Just the stories, just 01:49:10.069 --> 01:49:13.609 the grit behind what those guys pushed through. 01:49:13.930 --> 01:49:16.890 You know what I mean? I put the mental health 01:49:16.890 --> 01:49:19.250 connotation on it. Like when you're battling 01:49:19.250 --> 01:49:21.710 your demons in your head, it's the same thing 01:49:21.710 --> 01:49:25.390 as battling a jihad or battling the Taliban. 01:49:25.729 --> 01:49:28.409 You know, it's in your head. And that's what 01:49:28.409 --> 01:49:31.680 I saw with Matt, Matty in. in waves of war it 01:49:31.680 --> 01:49:34.359 was like he was he was like i'm still battling 01:49:34.359 --> 01:49:38.439 but there's nobody to battle but myself and that's 01:49:38.439 --> 01:49:39.680 what i've seen with all three of them it was 01:49:39.680 --> 01:49:41.819 like we're still battling something but there's 01:49:41.819 --> 01:49:44.539 no there's nobody across there's nobody on the 01:49:44.539 --> 01:49:47.380 other side of that saying that i need to be shooting 01:49:47.380 --> 01:49:49.739 it's i need to focus on myself i'm battling myself 01:49:49.739 --> 01:49:52.380 and that's how i feel when i watch those movies 01:49:52.380 --> 01:49:56.520 just like they're battling something and they're 01:49:56.520 --> 01:49:58.199 persevering through it it just gives you that 01:49:58.199 --> 01:50:01.829 sense of get through it um I like science fiction 01:50:01.829 --> 01:50:04.289 movies because I just like to think about what 01:50:04.289 --> 01:50:07.029 the future would be like. What's what's coming? 01:50:07.149 --> 01:50:10.130 What can we be doing? Can we be regrowing limbs 01:50:10.130 --> 01:50:12.890 or, you know, downloading your consciousness 01:50:12.890 --> 01:50:14.970 to a computer? Just something just crazy stuff. 01:50:15.609 --> 01:50:17.710 Yeah, it's exciting, though. I think the whole 01:50:17.710 --> 01:50:20.989 stem cell world is is I think I just actually 01:50:20.989 --> 01:50:24.649 I think it was somewhere in Europe, maybe the 01:50:24.649 --> 01:50:27.810 ability to actually regrow teeth. So maybe you 01:50:27.810 --> 01:50:29.590 and I, when we get older, we won't have to have 01:50:29.590 --> 01:50:31.810 those God awful benches, but we'll just have 01:50:31.810 --> 01:50:35.289 nice, young, fresh white teeth again. I'll be 01:50:35.289 --> 01:50:38.229 the NBA of my country, man. I've seen a bunch 01:50:38.229 --> 01:50:40.750 of stuff. I try to, I try to cut my Instagram 01:50:40.750 --> 01:50:42.909 from scrolling, but sometimes I get caught scrolling 01:50:42.909 --> 01:50:45.409 and you see so much stuff and you're just like, 01:50:45.449 --> 01:50:47.789 is that true? Is that true? I like, I like a 01:50:47.789 --> 01:50:50.670 good conspiracy theory. I'll sit back and dig 01:50:50.670 --> 01:50:54.229 into those and, and just, just cause like. Just 01:50:54.229 --> 01:50:56.050 to see what people are talking about or what 01:50:56.050 --> 01:50:59.529 people are thinking. Absolutely. All right. Well, 01:50:59.529 --> 01:51:01.430 next question. Is there a person you'd recommend 01:51:01.430 --> 01:51:04.149 to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to 01:51:04.149 --> 01:51:06.189 the first responders, military and associated 01:51:06.189 --> 01:51:10.810 professions of the world? So the person I'm thinking 01:51:10.810 --> 01:51:14.770 about, they're out of Colorado, Jacqueline and 01:51:14.770 --> 01:51:17.149 Sean Toomey. They are the ones when I started 01:51:17.149 --> 01:51:19.529 my sleep, they told me about sleep recovery for 01:51:19.529 --> 01:51:22.149 the first responder. And Jacqueline actually 01:51:22.149 --> 01:51:24.529 comes to your department. And what she does is 01:51:24.529 --> 01:51:27.829 she teaches you a meditation for when you lay 01:51:27.829 --> 01:51:30.050 down and go to sleep. It's only 30 minutes, but 01:51:30.050 --> 01:51:33.670 it feels like you've just laid down for an hour 01:51:33.670 --> 01:51:36.250 nap, two hour nap, because you've meditated and 01:51:36.250 --> 01:51:39.369 relaxed your body and relaxed your mind. I reached 01:51:39.369 --> 01:51:44.050 out to them multiple times to talk about sleep 01:51:44.050 --> 01:51:46.649 and first responders. And when I started my CBD 01:51:46.649 --> 01:51:50.439 studies, I reached out to them because. One of 01:51:50.439 --> 01:51:53.199 the guys at Charlotte told me about it. He said, 01:51:53.239 --> 01:51:54.920 hey, you need to look into them. They're on Facebook. 01:51:55.279 --> 01:51:58.439 It's called Sleep Recovery for the First Responder. 01:51:59.159 --> 01:52:02.479 Jacqueline and Sean Toomey out of Colorado. They 01:52:02.479 --> 01:52:07.199 really have a good idea on how sleep affects 01:52:07.199 --> 01:52:10.859 us as firefighters and first responders. I forget 01:52:10.859 --> 01:52:12.579 which episode it was, but I had them on years 01:52:12.579 --> 01:52:16.979 ago. I think it was during COVID, if I'm not 01:52:16.979 --> 01:52:21.659 mistaken. Maybe even like a Facebook live or 01:52:21.659 --> 01:52:24.920 something where she even did an actual meditation 01:52:24.920 --> 01:52:28.859 during the conversation. I can't remember exactly 01:52:28.859 --> 01:52:30.899 now, but I know that we did something like that. 01:52:31.020 --> 01:52:33.340 So, but yeah, no, they're phenomenal. They really 01:52:33.340 --> 01:52:36.760 are. Yeah, those are the two. Brilliant. All 01:52:36.760 --> 01:52:38.239 right. Well, the last question before we make 01:52:38.239 --> 01:52:39.840 sure where everyone knows where to find you, 01:52:40.020 --> 01:52:44.279 what do you do to decompress? Most of the time, 01:52:44.279 --> 01:52:46.659 I kind of just, when my kids and family go to 01:52:46.659 --> 01:52:48.300 sleep, I just kind of just sit down. I like to 01:52:48.300 --> 01:52:50.859 game. So I'll sit and game a little bit, play 01:52:50.859 --> 01:52:53.579 a few games, just kind of, that's my biggest 01:52:53.579 --> 01:52:55.699 decompression is just sitting down and gaming. 01:52:55.819 --> 01:52:59.220 But every now and then I will sit down and do 01:52:59.220 --> 01:53:02.300 like a quick Bible study or read a quick part 01:53:02.300 --> 01:53:05.239 of the Bible and just try to interpret that part. 01:53:05.439 --> 01:53:08.300 Right now I'm in John chapter, John, the book 01:53:08.300 --> 01:53:11.739 of John or the gospel of John chapter one. That's 01:53:11.739 --> 01:53:15.819 where I'm at now. And I'm just slowly, slowly 01:53:15.819 --> 01:53:19.649 walking myself through that chapter. of John 01:53:19.649 --> 01:53:21.789 and then I'll go to the next chapter. And that's, 01:53:21.789 --> 01:53:23.550 and that's something I like to do to decompress. 01:53:24.010 --> 01:53:28.310 Um, I like the functional mushrooms. Like, uh, 01:53:28.369 --> 01:53:31.109 have you heard of life cycle? Tinctures? Um, 01:53:31.250 --> 01:53:33.930 I haven't heard of them. I had, um, Oh my God. 01:53:34.390 --> 01:53:36.569 Umbo. I had the guys from Umbo on the show and 01:53:36.569 --> 01:53:38.810 I actually, I use mud water morning and night 01:53:38.810 --> 01:53:40.890 too, which is, which is also the same kind of 01:53:40.890 --> 01:53:43.229 thing. Yeah. That's what I was going to look 01:53:43.229 --> 01:53:45.229 into mud water. And, um, I just hadn't got a 01:53:45.229 --> 01:53:46.989 chance to get to it, but life cycle is the same 01:53:46.989 --> 01:53:51.180 kind of thing. lion's mane reishi at night time 01:53:51.180 --> 01:53:53.979 to kind of calm down and like tea just to kind 01:53:53.979 --> 01:53:56.979 of just take my mind off of like everything that 01:53:56.979 --> 01:54:00.020 went on in the day and journaling like i might 01:54:00.020 --> 01:54:01.960 type on my computer i might type a little passage 01:54:01.960 --> 01:54:05.439 on my computer or write something down that throughout 01:54:05.439 --> 01:54:07.960 the day kind of just had me either hemmed up 01:54:07.960 --> 01:54:11.659 or i seen myself focusing on my my awareness 01:54:11.659 --> 01:54:15.279 of being aware of my anger or emotions and controlling 01:54:15.279 --> 01:54:17.689 them i'll write that down like I got upset at 01:54:17.689 --> 01:54:20.170 this point at one of my children, and I ended 01:54:20.170 --> 01:54:22.329 up fixing the situation without getting angry 01:54:22.329 --> 01:54:24.949 or fixing the situation without losing my crap 01:54:24.949 --> 01:54:28.590 and walking out. And I like to do that at nighttime. 01:54:29.649 --> 01:54:32.170 Brilliant. Well, for people listening then, if 01:54:32.170 --> 01:54:33.689 they want to reach out to you, where are the 01:54:33.689 --> 01:54:36.869 best places to find you online? So you can find 01:54:36.869 --> 01:54:42.470 me. My email is daship, D -A -S -H -I -P -P, 01:54:42.510 --> 01:54:50.079 100100 at gmail .com. and um and on facebook 01:54:50.079 --> 01:54:52.659 it probably facebook's the same thing dj ship 01:54:52.659 --> 01:54:56.079 with a sip is d period j period because if you 01:54:56.079 --> 01:54:58.060 type dj ship it it won't pull me up you have 01:54:58.060 --> 01:55:01.300 to put the dot the periods in there and you can 01:55:01.300 --> 01:55:05.840 find me there brilliant well dj like i said there 01:55:05.840 --> 01:55:08.100 was this kind of universal coincidence that brought 01:55:08.100 --> 01:55:10.600 us to brought us together again But, you know, 01:55:10.619 --> 01:55:12.819 it's been such an interesting perspective. I 01:55:12.819 --> 01:55:14.619 mean, every single person that comes on the show, 01:55:14.800 --> 01:55:17.159 you know, they have their own story. But we talked 01:55:17.159 --> 01:55:19.380 about CBD a long time ago. Now you're talking 01:55:19.380 --> 01:55:21.460 about in waves and war and psychedelics. And 01:55:21.460 --> 01:55:25.039 I think this is the beautiful, you know, metamorphosis 01:55:25.039 --> 01:55:27.319 of the fire service. I think we're becoming more 01:55:27.319 --> 01:55:29.100 and more progressive and whether it's the work 01:55:29.100 --> 01:55:32.159 week, whether it's psychedelic therapy. There 01:55:32.159 --> 01:55:34.899 are so many exciting innovations that we're starting 01:55:34.899 --> 01:55:37.159 to lean into. And your perspective from North 01:55:37.159 --> 01:55:39.939 Carolina has been invaluable. So I want to thank 01:55:39.939 --> 01:55:42.060 you so much for being so generous with your time 01:55:42.060 --> 01:55:44.140 and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today. 01:55:44.640 --> 01:55:46.640 Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you for having me.