WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.700 A prerequisite to be a sponsor on the Behind 00:00:01.700 --> 00:00:04.679 the Shield podcast is you have to bring a solution 00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:06.940 to one of our problems. And today's sponsor, 00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:09.779 EaseAlert, does exactly that. Founded by the 00:00:09.779 --> 00:00:12.419 son of a firefighter, Blake Richardson watched 00:00:12.419 --> 00:00:15.300 the impact of sleep deprivation on his father's 00:00:15.300 --> 00:00:18.059 health and decided to use modern technology to 00:00:18.059 --> 00:00:20.420 address that problem. As you've probably heard 00:00:20.420 --> 00:00:23.260 me mention many times, it is pure insanity that 00:00:23.260 --> 00:00:26.140 we wake an entire fire station for one crew to 00:00:26.140 --> 00:00:28.969 respond. And the way that we're alerted makes 00:00:28.969 --> 00:00:32.789 the firefighter stress go from 0 to 100. Now 00:00:32.789 --> 00:00:35.490 EaseAlert has a host of solutions. The first 00:00:35.490 --> 00:00:38.590 of which is the wearable TAC pod, which alerts 00:00:38.590 --> 00:00:41.130 the first responder of an incoming call through 00:00:41.130 --> 00:00:43.829 vibration in the wrist. So as you can imagine, 00:00:43.869 --> 00:00:46.350 in a communal bunk room, only the crews that 00:00:46.350 --> 00:00:49.289 need to respond will be woken up. Now they also 00:00:49.289 --> 00:00:51.829 have the bunk alert system, which puts vibration 00:00:51.829 --> 00:00:56.759 into the bunk itself. There's LED lighting, a 00:00:56.759 --> 00:01:00.079 turnout timer, station automation where you can 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:03.340 program bay doors to close or gas stoves to turn 00:01:03.340 --> 00:01:06.040 off. And understanding that sleep deprivation 00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:09.739 is behind so many things at ALS, a recent study 00:01:09.739 --> 00:01:12.200 showed that EaseAlert improves health impacts 00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:17.680 by 169%. So if you want to hear more about EaseAlert, 00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:19.980 you can listen to my conversation with Blake 00:01:19.980 --> 00:01:23.599 on episode 1168 of the Behind the Shield podcast 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:29.340 or go to easealert .com. Welcome to the Behind 00:01:29.340 --> 00:01:31.280 the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:33.180 Geering and this week it is my absolute honor 00:01:33.180 --> 00:01:36.640 to welcome on the show British firefighter and 00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:41.230 MMA fighter Jason Kubiak. Now, in this conversation, 00:01:41.310 --> 00:01:43.849 we discuss a host of topics from his journey 00:01:43.849 --> 00:01:46.829 into the UK Fire and Rescue Service, some of 00:01:46.829 --> 00:01:50.909 his career calls, the Grenfell fire, his own 00:01:50.909 --> 00:01:54.650 powerful mental health story, prioritizing family, 00:01:54.849 --> 00:01:58.510 the knife crime epidemic in the UK, and so much 00:01:58.510 --> 00:02:01.750 more. Now, before we get to this incredible conversation, 00:02:01.989 --> 00:02:04.689 as I say every week, please just take a moment. 00:02:04.930 --> 00:02:07.269 Go to whichever app you listen to this podcast 00:02:07.269 --> 00:02:11.539 on. Subscribe to the show, leave feedback, and 00:02:11.539 --> 00:02:14.780 leave a rating. Every single five -star rating 00:02:14.780 --> 00:02:17.900 truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making 00:02:17.900 --> 00:02:21.180 it easier for other people to find. And this 00:02:21.180 --> 00:02:25.460 is a free library of almost 1 ,200 episodes now. 00:02:25.620 --> 00:02:29.139 So all I ask in return is that you help share 00:02:29.139 --> 00:02:32.219 these incredible men and women's stories so I 00:02:32.219 --> 00:02:35.159 can get them to every single person on planet 00:02:35.159 --> 00:02:38.460 Earth who needs to hear them. So with that being 00:02:38.460 --> 00:02:43.879 said, I introduce to you Jason Kubiak. Enjoy. 00:03:03.189 --> 00:03:05.370 Well, Jason, I want to start by saying thank 00:03:05.370 --> 00:03:07.830 you so much for taking the time and coming on 00:03:07.830 --> 00:03:10.889 the Behind the Shield podcast today. No, it's 00:03:10.889 --> 00:03:12.349 an absolute pleasure and an honor. Thank you. 00:03:12.389 --> 00:03:14.050 I've been listening to you for a while. I stumbled 00:03:14.050 --> 00:03:16.090 across you a few months back, actually, and you've 00:03:16.090 --> 00:03:19.229 been a large part of my journey to and from work 00:03:19.229 --> 00:03:21.789 for the last few months. So no, I'm really excited 00:03:21.789 --> 00:03:23.669 and feel really honored. Thank you very much. 00:03:24.110 --> 00:03:25.930 Oh, I appreciate it. Thank you for listening. 00:03:26.009 --> 00:03:28.889 You know, it's funny when you Google firefighter 00:03:28.889 --> 00:03:31.689 podcast in all the lists that come up, Behind 00:03:31.689 --> 00:03:33.680 the Shield is never in there. I don't know why, 00:03:33.780 --> 00:03:36.120 maybe because I don't just talk about firefighting, 00:03:36.139 --> 00:03:38.780 but it's so weird. Nine years, all the downloads, 00:03:38.900 --> 00:03:42.860 all the episodes, and yeah. So the only way people 00:03:42.860 --> 00:03:45.180 find this is, I guess, word of mouth, even to 00:03:45.180 --> 00:03:48.199 this day. Yeah, I don't know how I stumbled across 00:03:48.199 --> 00:03:50.400 you, buddy, to be honest with you. I can't quite 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:52.259 remember. I put some search into, obviously, 00:03:52.340 --> 00:03:54.520 the podcast, and it popped up, and then I've 00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:56.139 been pretty much hooked since then, to be honest 00:03:56.139 --> 00:03:58.319 with you. Good, yeah. Well, there's so many people 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:01.219 on there. I think we're almost at 1 ,200 now. 00:04:02.110 --> 00:04:04.370 The guests are just insane. They really are. 00:04:04.590 --> 00:04:06.870 All right. Well, very first question. Where on 00:04:06.870 --> 00:04:10.289 planet Earth are we finding you today? You are 00:04:10.289 --> 00:04:13.370 finding me in a little village called Mixbury 00:04:13.370 --> 00:04:16.829 in Northamptonshire in the UK, England. So for 00:04:16.829 --> 00:04:19.910 you guys that might not know, pretty much 70 00:04:19.910 --> 00:04:23.970 miles north of London, about a 10 -minute drive 00:04:23.970 --> 00:04:26.910 from Silverstone Racetrack. Brilliant. Well, 00:04:26.990 --> 00:04:28.470 let's start at the very beginning of your journey 00:04:28.470 --> 00:04:30.730 then. Tell me where you were born and tell me 00:04:30.730 --> 00:04:32.389 a little bit about your family dynamic, what 00:04:32.389 --> 00:04:36.089 your parents did, how many siblings. All right. 00:04:36.189 --> 00:04:39.290 I was born in 1978 and then again in another 00:04:39.290 --> 00:04:41.170 little town called Bletchley. It's now turned 00:04:41.170 --> 00:04:44.050 into Milton Keynes. It's a bigger town. I've 00:04:44.050 --> 00:04:46.449 got a sister who's four years younger than me. 00:04:46.970 --> 00:04:51.920 My dad. was half Polish. His family come over 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:56.300 in a war, and my mum and dad met. He was, unfortunately, 00:04:56.420 --> 00:04:59.879 we lost my dad pre -COVID. That's a story all 00:04:59.879 --> 00:05:02.100 in itself, to be honest with you. But he was 00:05:02.100 --> 00:05:05.120 a plumber and a stonemason by trade. Couldn't 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:06.819 read or write, but he managed to get through 00:05:06.819 --> 00:05:10.620 and get work done and stuff. So, yeah, he was 00:05:10.620 --> 00:05:14.360 a unique man, let's put it that way. And my mum, 00:05:14.500 --> 00:05:18.980 she was an insurance underwriter. You know, she 00:05:18.980 --> 00:05:20.920 was born in this country. She was a very different 00:05:20.920 --> 00:05:23.459 background. She was like a head girl at school, 00:05:23.660 --> 00:05:27.420 a private school, when they met, kind of like 00:05:27.420 --> 00:05:30.680 the rough of my dad and the poshest of my mom, 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:33.459 kind of, you know, equals attracted, all that. 00:05:33.540 --> 00:05:36.560 And then, yeah, that was that, really. So we 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:39.579 grew up, spent, I've spent most of my life in 00:05:39.579 --> 00:05:41.519 Milton Keynes, in and around Milton Keynes and 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:45.210 London, grew up, and then obviously, yeah. My 00:05:45.210 --> 00:05:47.269 childhood was pretty good, to be fair. They did 00:05:47.269 --> 00:05:48.910 everything they could for us with what they had. 00:05:50.370 --> 00:05:52.509 And I still to this day, I'd never change it. 00:05:53.230 --> 00:05:56.470 Some of the most important stories or some of 00:05:56.470 --> 00:05:58.850 the most important traits I learned from my dad 00:05:58.850 --> 00:06:01.329 was the type of man I should be as I grew up 00:06:01.329 --> 00:06:02.990 and the type of father I should be to my kids. 00:06:03.069 --> 00:06:04.790 So there's some things I'd never change, for 00:06:04.790 --> 00:06:09.370 sure. What area of stonemasonry was he focused 00:06:09.370 --> 00:06:12.029 on? Because in the book I just wrote last year, 00:06:12.149 --> 00:06:15.290 one of the characters... flees world war ii france 00:06:15.290 --> 00:06:17.230 and he's a stonemason and that's actually the 00:06:17.230 --> 00:06:20.149 the skill that he brings to the uk well no way 00:06:20.149 --> 00:06:24.189 so he was um i don't know i'm not expecting anyone 00:06:24.189 --> 00:06:26.370 to know who milton keynes is but they him and 00:06:26.370 --> 00:06:28.850 his brother did the a large majority of laying 00:06:28.850 --> 00:06:33.189 the the marble slabs all the marble cladding 00:06:33.189 --> 00:06:35.329 on a lot of the buildings they worked on a lot 00:06:35.329 --> 00:06:38.910 of posh um kitchens and hotels and stuff like 00:06:38.910 --> 00:06:41.050 that doing all work units and worktops bits and 00:06:41.050 --> 00:06:44.620 pieces like that really Brilliant. All right. 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:45.879 And what about, did you say what your mom did 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:48.240 as a profession? I can't remember. She was an 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:50.899 insurance underwriter. So she's semi -retired. 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:53.339 She lives with my sister now. And she's still, 00:06:53.480 --> 00:06:56.720 she's selling medical goods, I think, is what 00:06:56.720 --> 00:06:59.639 she does now. And a little telesales thing. So 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:02.399 yeah, she's still killing it, bless her. Brilliant. 00:07:02.620 --> 00:07:04.939 What about when you were in the school ages? 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:07.660 What were you playing as far as sports exercise? 00:07:09.319 --> 00:07:13.350 Wow. Started off rugby. is where I really started 00:07:13.350 --> 00:07:15.350 when I was really young. Moved on to football, 00:07:15.550 --> 00:07:19.670 soccer, kind of started to enjoy that, that team 00:07:19.670 --> 00:07:22.870 ethic and stuff. And then I got kind of pushed 00:07:22.870 --> 00:07:26.170 into boxing by my dad and hated every minute 00:07:26.170 --> 00:07:28.189 of it. Never liked a training session, never 00:07:28.189 --> 00:07:30.250 liked a sparring session. And then all of a sudden 00:07:30.250 --> 00:07:35.370 I think I hit, my memory serves me right, around 00:07:35.370 --> 00:07:38.430 about 16, 17, just as you find girls and stuff. 00:07:38.550 --> 00:07:40.810 But that's when I kind of hit my, I found my 00:07:40.810 --> 00:07:44.060 love. for boxing. And then I boxed amateur for 00:07:44.060 --> 00:07:47.100 many years and I've kind of always had my hand 00:07:47.100 --> 00:07:51.220 in at that. And then I fell into jiu -jitsu many, 00:07:51.220 --> 00:07:54.699 many years ago. Many years ago. But yeah, predominantly 00:07:54.699 --> 00:07:57.259 football and boxing really was the thing for 00:07:57.259 --> 00:07:59.819 me when I was a youngster. What was it that made 00:07:59.819 --> 00:08:02.399 you turn that corner between dislike in boxing 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:06.120 and all of a sudden leaning into it? Do you know? 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:09.220 That's a really good question. I think it was 00:08:09.220 --> 00:08:10.779 because it was something I was forced to do. 00:08:11.300 --> 00:08:14.779 And it was kind of that battle between me and 00:08:14.779 --> 00:08:17.160 my dad and that kind of, you know, that loggerheads, 00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:18.779 I don't want to do it, him throwing. And then 00:08:18.779 --> 00:08:22.699 when I eventually got to that point where I found 00:08:22.699 --> 00:08:25.300 it was more for myself and the enjoyment I got 00:08:25.300 --> 00:08:27.899 out of it, then that kind of turned, that love 00:08:27.899 --> 00:08:30.879 turned. And then I found that, you know, you 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:32.720 learn so much out of contact sports, like you'll 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:38.570 know, James, for sure. just the the you know 00:08:38.570 --> 00:08:41.309 the stuff that you learn from from doing it you've 00:08:41.309 --> 00:08:44.049 been on time being you know having to set targets 00:08:44.049 --> 00:08:45.710 for yourself you've got to be certain weights 00:08:45.710 --> 00:08:48.190 and stuff like that there's lessons that that 00:08:48.190 --> 00:08:49.610 taught me that i've taken through the whole of 00:08:49.610 --> 00:08:52.309 my life so yeah it's probably just when i got 00:08:52.309 --> 00:08:55.269 away from it being pushed onto me by my father 00:08:55.269 --> 00:08:58.529 i've always said you know when i look back and 00:08:58.529 --> 00:09:01.309 i ask people the same thing um when i played 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:03.860 team sports and i played football you know just 00:09:03.860 --> 00:09:06.120 super casually but i played field hockey for 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:08.960 college and all that which i always i always 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:11.120 feel i have to justify why i played college uh 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:13.879 field hockey as a man but it's you know it's 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:15.379 quite a violent sport because you get to run 00:09:15.379 --> 00:09:20.019 around with a stick um but when you do an individual 00:09:20.019 --> 00:09:22.860 sport you have the team element with the team 00:09:22.860 --> 00:09:24.399 sport and that's great but when it's an individual 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:27.610 sport you can't blame anyone else Like you have 00:09:27.610 --> 00:09:29.769 to look in the mirror and go, I wasn't good enough 00:09:29.769 --> 00:09:32.149 to beat them, you know, or I let it be in the 00:09:32.149 --> 00:09:34.049 hands of the judges and therefore I didn't beat 00:09:34.049 --> 00:09:37.769 them, you know, enough. And so I found that incredibly 00:09:37.769 --> 00:09:40.149 humbling and that self -talk became a lot stronger 00:09:40.149 --> 00:09:43.769 in a ring or on a mat than it was, for example, 00:09:43.769 --> 00:09:49.460 on a pitch. Yeah, for sure. Definitely. And you 00:09:49.460 --> 00:09:51.919 go to some real dark places. Fortunately enough, 00:09:52.019 --> 00:09:55.460 when I did MMA, I didn't lose a bout. So I never 00:09:55.460 --> 00:09:59.200 experienced that feeling of loss. But I certainly 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:00.799 went through it in the gym, that's for sure. 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:02.879 But when it comes to boxing, I got stopped a 00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:05.860 few times boxing. And they hurt. They really 00:10:05.860 --> 00:10:08.820 hurt. And to come back from something... a loss 00:10:08.820 --> 00:10:10.860 in that environment. You know, exactly like you 00:10:10.860 --> 00:10:12.559 said with the football, you've got teammates 00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:14.320 and stuff. You've almost got people that you 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:16.220 can look at and blame out for a certain moment 00:10:16.220 --> 00:10:18.740 within a certain game. But when you're stood 00:10:18.740 --> 00:10:20.360 there duking it out with someone, the only thing 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:22.240 you really have to blame is yourself. If you 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:24.899 don't turn up in shape, you don't turn up doing 00:10:24.899 --> 00:10:26.519 the right things, you've got nobody else to blame 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:29.980 but yourself, right? Absolutely. What about career 00:10:29.980 --> 00:10:31.620 aspirations? What were you dreaming of becoming 00:10:31.620 --> 00:10:34.820 when you were in school? I always wanted to be 00:10:34.820 --> 00:10:37.500 a firefighter. That is what was always on my 00:10:37.500 --> 00:10:40.919 mind. Why, I don't know, because it's nothing 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:44.080 in our family. We've got no military aspect in 00:10:44.080 --> 00:10:47.019 our family. No one joined any other emergency 00:10:47.019 --> 00:10:48.820 services. So it's just something I always wanted 00:10:48.820 --> 00:10:51.059 to do. And I can remember you alluding to on 00:10:51.059 --> 00:10:54.000 a podcast way back, you go to the careers officer, 00:10:54.279 --> 00:10:56.320 you sit down in front of the careers advisor, 00:10:56.360 --> 00:10:57.559 and they're like, what do you want to do? And 00:10:57.559 --> 00:10:58.879 I'm like, I want to be a firefighter. And they're 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:00.700 like, you haven't got the grades for that. You've 00:11:00.700 --> 00:11:03.399 got to think about doing something else. So academically, 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:06.259 I wasn't great at school. So I had to send myself 00:11:06.259 --> 00:11:09.700 to college to sort of get my maths back up to 00:11:09.700 --> 00:11:12.220 speed and my English up to speed because I struggled 00:11:12.220 --> 00:11:14.639 with the selection process. Physically, I was 00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:18.600 golden. But just that, yeah, the psychometric 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:20.799 testing in English and maths wasn't great. So 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:23.820 I got to a point where I was good enough just 00:11:23.820 --> 00:11:26.139 to pass the written test. And then, yeah, that 00:11:26.139 --> 00:11:28.679 was it. That's history then. I had a few little 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:30.639 bum -end jobs that I bounced around doing before 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:32.379 I got there. But I joined the fire service when 00:11:32.379 --> 00:11:36.029 I was just turning 19. So that's kind of all 00:11:36.029 --> 00:11:40.090 I've known. Before we progress into adulthood, 00:11:40.450 --> 00:11:42.950 we talked before we hit record about some of 00:11:42.950 --> 00:11:45.090 the struggles, some of the wrong sides of the 00:11:45.090 --> 00:11:48.570 law, et cetera, that you found yourself on. It's 00:11:48.570 --> 00:11:50.909 become such an apparent conversation now that 00:11:50.909 --> 00:11:53.629 so many of us that put the uniform on have had 00:11:53.629 --> 00:11:55.990 things that were struggles when we were younger. 00:11:56.330 --> 00:11:58.129 And if they're worked through and addressed, 00:11:58.309 --> 00:12:00.409 they can become strengths. It's not a bad thing 00:12:00.409 --> 00:12:03.419 at all. If they're pushed down, buried down, 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:06.740 left unaddressed, they can be an addition to 00:12:06.740 --> 00:12:08.500 the things that we see in the sleep deprivation 00:12:08.500 --> 00:12:11.200 and all those elements. When you reflect back 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:13.539 now with this kind of veteran lens that you have, 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:16.100 were there any elements of your childhood you 00:12:16.100 --> 00:12:18.120 think that contributed to struggling later on? 00:12:19.340 --> 00:12:23.500 Oh, I think so. I think there probably is. I 00:12:23.500 --> 00:12:25.139 think there is for most of us, right? I think 00:12:25.139 --> 00:12:27.320 there's moments in time when we see in a household 00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:32.440 that... Look, it wasn't until my father passed 00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:34.860 away that I realized how difficult a life he 00:12:34.860 --> 00:12:39.440 had. And he wasn't loved as a child, if you like. 00:12:39.639 --> 00:12:43.440 So he didn't know anything other than what he 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:46.679 experienced and how he would be with us. So there 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:49.340 was times within our childhood where we got the 00:12:49.340 --> 00:12:51.259 tough end of the stick, if you like. You know, 00:12:51.299 --> 00:12:54.460 it was tough in the household and there was arguing 00:12:54.460 --> 00:12:56.889 and stuff, but nothing too... you know, too different 00:12:56.889 --> 00:13:00.049 to anybody else. But it was difficult. Yeah, 00:13:00.070 --> 00:13:05.210 it was difficult from time to time. Yeah, that 00:13:05.210 --> 00:13:08.769 certainly has its part to play, definitely, I 00:13:08.769 --> 00:13:12.110 think, as I was a youngster. But as we alluded 00:13:12.110 --> 00:13:15.389 to before we hit the record button, I learned 00:13:15.389 --> 00:13:16.990 some valuable lessons from my dad and things 00:13:16.990 --> 00:13:18.990 that I would never change. And that was the type 00:13:18.990 --> 00:13:22.009 of man I should be and how I should treat people 00:13:22.009 --> 00:13:24.950 and the type of parent I should be when I become 00:13:24.950 --> 00:13:29.070 a parent. But he lived his life with his grandkids. 00:13:29.710 --> 00:13:31.889 You know, that's where he excelled. So that's 00:13:31.889 --> 00:13:37.370 what I hold dear now, you know. The whole point 00:13:37.370 --> 00:13:39.389 of me writing the book, not constantly going 00:13:39.389 --> 00:13:43.929 back to my book, but was to also storytell generational 00:13:43.929 --> 00:13:46.389 trauma, which is why there's this World War II 00:13:46.389 --> 00:13:48.570 element. Because I think if you can look back 00:13:48.570 --> 00:13:51.429 and see not only your childhood, but your parents' 00:13:51.570 --> 00:13:53.129 childhoods and maybe even your grandparents' 00:13:53.450 --> 00:13:55.610 childhood, you see these dominoes that are falling. 00:13:56.269 --> 00:13:58.830 And we are simply a product of our friends and 00:13:58.830 --> 00:14:02.230 our family. That's it. That's how we're influenced. 00:14:02.769 --> 00:14:06.029 So if you can, exactly like you said, you look 00:14:06.029 --> 00:14:08.629 back and go, well, they did the best with what 00:14:08.629 --> 00:14:10.690 they had at that moment. There wasn't this conversation 00:14:10.690 --> 00:14:13.870 about these other things. So there's no guilt, 00:14:14.029 --> 00:14:16.769 no shame, no blaming, but just an observation 00:14:16.769 --> 00:14:19.370 of the contributing factors to our own struggles. 00:14:20.190 --> 00:14:21.970 then you can say, well, I'm not going to let 00:14:21.970 --> 00:14:24.470 that pass on to my kids. So I think it's such 00:14:24.470 --> 00:14:26.129 an important conversation that we're starting 00:14:26.129 --> 00:14:28.769 to have now about this generational trauma because 00:14:28.769 --> 00:14:30.950 it's not creating a victim mentality. It's just 00:14:30.950 --> 00:14:34.070 observing the things that did set you up for 00:14:34.070 --> 00:14:36.750 failure, addressing them, and then not passing 00:14:36.750 --> 00:14:40.929 it on. Yeah, for sure. I think as a young man, 00:14:42.220 --> 00:14:43.799 Growing up in a household, you're just always 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:45.580 looking for validation from your father. That's 00:14:45.580 --> 00:14:47.840 who you want to make happy. That's who you want 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:50.799 to hear them words. Them words resonate. I'm 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:52.879 proud of you, son. You know, that's all you ever 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:55.559 want to hear. And God forbid, my girls, I've 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:59.340 got two daughters. So the amount I repeat that 00:14:59.340 --> 00:15:01.460 day in, day out, you know, I tell them that every 00:15:01.460 --> 00:15:04.240 day. Probably a bit too much. I get nagged at 00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:06.500 by the wife for it. But, you know, these are 00:15:06.500 --> 00:15:08.379 the things that you miss out on and you relive 00:15:08.379 --> 00:15:09.940 them, don't you? And you try to instill that 00:15:09.940 --> 00:15:12.000 and push that on your children to make sure that 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:14.120 they don't feel how you did back in them times. 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:16.580 Absolutely. I'm the same. I hug my son. He's 00:15:16.580 --> 00:15:18.659 18 now and I still hug him, kiss him on the head, 00:15:18.740 --> 00:15:20.299 tell him I'm proud of him, tell him I love him. 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:26.559 Yes, my oldest daughter is 24 and my youngest 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:29.820 is 14. A lot of them cuddles and kisses are gone 00:15:29.820 --> 00:15:31.919 now. You know, them days of hearing a dump out 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:35.700 of the bed and that open your eyes and silhouette 00:15:35.700 --> 00:15:38.980 in the doorway and just pulling the blankets 00:15:38.980 --> 00:15:40.940 to one side and letting them jump in. They're 00:15:40.940 --> 00:15:42.639 all gone now. So them cuddles, it's not cool 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:46.559 to be with dad anymore. Well, you mentioned about 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:49.000 having to go to college, get the grades up before 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:52.240 you got to test with FD. How competitive was 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:54.519 it back then? And then walk me through what the 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:58.360 process looked like. Oh, wow. So back then, look 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:03.759 what, 98, I think it was, something like that. 00:16:03.779 --> 00:16:07.480 So I was 18, 19. That was back then, you'd have 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:09.340 to physically go to the fire station and get 00:16:09.340 --> 00:16:12.320 an application form. And I was applying then 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:15.700 for a little county brigade, Buckinghamshire. 00:16:15.779 --> 00:16:19.120 So I think at the time when I finally got into 00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:22.149 the job, I think we had... Somewhere around about 00:16:22.149 --> 00:16:26.610 560, maybe 600 whole -time firefighters spread 00:16:26.610 --> 00:16:29.789 across five or six whole -time stations. And 00:16:29.789 --> 00:16:32.970 the rest were day crewed. But there was people 00:16:32.970 --> 00:16:38.149 queuing for blocks, if you like, all the way 00:16:38.149 --> 00:16:40.350 down the road, about 2 ,000 people applying for 00:16:40.350 --> 00:16:43.269 about 13 jobs. And James, I actually applied. 00:16:44.309 --> 00:16:48.649 I went through the process. Wow, somewhere between 00:16:48.649 --> 00:16:50.909 six to eight times I applied, kept going back, 00:16:50.950 --> 00:16:53.289 kept seeing the same faces, would smash the bleep 00:16:53.289 --> 00:16:55.429 test, da -da -da -da -da. But yeah, just kept 00:16:55.429 --> 00:16:57.850 failing at that written test scenario. And it 00:16:57.850 --> 00:17:01.129 was the stories that we used to hear, if you 00:17:01.129 --> 00:17:04.170 didn't write in black ink, that would be straight 00:17:04.170 --> 00:17:06.910 away because so many people applied, that application 00:17:06.910 --> 00:17:08.630 would go in the bin if it was a different color 00:17:08.630 --> 00:17:11.230 ink, a spelling mistake, stuff like that. We 00:17:11.230 --> 00:17:12.650 had to really concentrate on just getting the 00:17:12.650 --> 00:17:15.390 application correct to start with, to even get 00:17:15.390 --> 00:17:18.690 the call to go and do anything. But yeah, it 00:17:18.690 --> 00:17:20.869 took me several, several attempts, somewhere 00:17:20.869 --> 00:17:23.130 around about, yeah, between six to eight times 00:17:23.130 --> 00:17:26.430 before I eventually got through the door. The 00:17:26.430 --> 00:17:28.130 physical aspect of it back then was just, can 00:17:28.130 --> 00:17:30.670 you run a bleep test? I think it was around about 00:17:30.670 --> 00:17:34.880 11 .6 or something like that. And I could run 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:37.220 for days back then. And that's all I ever did, 00:17:37.220 --> 00:17:39.539 football or boxing. It was out on the street, 00:17:39.619 --> 00:17:41.599 beating the street. So running was a piece of 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:46.740 cake for me. So that wasn't a problem. From what 00:17:46.740 --> 00:17:49.460 I can remember, it's such a long time ago. I 00:17:49.460 --> 00:17:51.519 can remember the physical aspect was you put 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:55.920 a breathing apparatus set on and they'd stick 00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:57.759 you in a little room, switch the lights off, 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:00.140 make sure you weren't claustrophobic. send you 00:18:00.140 --> 00:18:02.480 up a ladder, take a leg lock, and then you'd 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:04.559 have to look over your left shoulder, call out 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:06.259 the letter that they had at the bottom of the 00:18:06.259 --> 00:18:08.299 ladder, look over your right shoulder, call out 00:18:08.299 --> 00:18:09.819 the letter, and then that was it. It was pretty 00:18:09.819 --> 00:18:13.500 much it, I think. Just contrasting that, because 00:18:13.500 --> 00:18:16.960 it's such an interesting conversation. I don't 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:18.779 know if you're having the same issues in the 00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:21.259 UK that we're having here in America, but you 00:18:21.259 --> 00:18:24.299 talked about thousands of applicants for 13 jobs. 00:18:24.420 --> 00:18:26.480 I had a similar thing when I was in California, 00:18:26.740 --> 00:18:31.799 whatever it is now. 19 years ago um what is the 00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:34.240 the level of recruitment interest at the moment 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:38.160 in the fire service in the uk so it's still quite 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:40.220 good it's still quite good the issue is i think 00:18:40.220 --> 00:18:43.900 financially um obviously i'm in london now i've 00:18:43.900 --> 00:18:45.559 transferred into london so that's a different 00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:48.119 fish altogether um you know one of the biggest 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:50.980 brigades in the world hugely funded they moan 00:18:50.980 --> 00:18:52.440 about the lack of funding that they're getting 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:56.019 but we've got what's it 5 000 hotel and firefighters 00:18:56.019 --> 00:19:02.369 but um There's still definitely still seen as 00:19:02.369 --> 00:19:05.390 a unique job and applicants are big. I think 00:19:05.390 --> 00:19:09.190 the issue, I say it's an issue, is how we look 00:19:09.190 --> 00:19:11.490 at our recruitment, the areas that we go, how 00:19:11.490 --> 00:19:15.769 we're tailored it. I think you've spoken about 00:19:15.769 --> 00:19:17.650 on many podcasts that we've listened to that 00:19:17.650 --> 00:19:21.089 the standards has been lowered so, so far down 00:19:21.089 --> 00:19:25.569 that it's getting to a point where we're almost 00:19:25.569 --> 00:19:30.450 taking. not the best that we could do because 00:19:30.450 --> 00:19:32.670 there is a line I do feel there is a line where 00:19:32.670 --> 00:19:35.710 we shouldn't drop below and we're getting recruits 00:19:35.710 --> 00:19:39.210 turn up on stations and I look at them you know 00:19:39.210 --> 00:19:40.769 I'm twice their age or they're younger than my 00:19:40.769 --> 00:19:42.950 kids or younger than my eldest and it's like 00:19:42.950 --> 00:19:47.640 you know stomach hanging over his trousers i'm 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:49.519 like how is that even possible how is that even 00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:52.839 allowed and it really does grip my shit unfortunately 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:55.519 when i look around especially with new recruits 00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:57.420 you know even with some of the older guys that 00:19:57.420 --> 00:19:59.539 come into the end of their time we've got we've 00:19:59.539 --> 00:20:01.279 got a duty of care to look after ourselves and 00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:03.660 look after the people that with us as well as 00:20:03.660 --> 00:20:06.960 our community you know well this is this is what's 00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:10.880 interesting is in america the places that held 00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:14.809 those standards high still had a high level of 00:20:14.809 --> 00:20:17.109 recruitment when I was testing early in my career. 00:20:17.549 --> 00:20:20.829 And one of the good examples is Anaheim, California. 00:20:21.289 --> 00:20:25.750 They would let 25 % of their recruits go in the 00:20:25.750 --> 00:20:28.450 first probationary year just through attrition. 00:20:28.549 --> 00:20:31.470 There's the bar. You get these opportunities 00:20:31.470 --> 00:20:33.450 to test. And if you don't make it throughout 00:20:33.450 --> 00:20:34.950 the year, you're already hired. If you don't 00:20:34.950 --> 00:20:37.470 make it, sorry, other places are still hiring, 00:20:37.529 --> 00:20:40.160 but you're not an Anaheim firefighter. And they 00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:42.700 had people lining up around the block, and it 00:20:42.700 --> 00:20:45.519 was the right kind of person. I think the Royal 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:47.200 Marines did the recruitment when we were young. 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:51.240 Like 99 % need not apply. And then the right 00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:53.039 kind of person said, oh, yeah? Oh, really? All 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:55.140 right, then hold my beer. You know what I mean? 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:57.279 And it worked. All the right people came looking 00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:00.160 to the Royal Marines, fire, et cetera. But where 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:02.519 I've seen people lower a bar, the last department 00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:04.539 I worked for, perfect example, the bar was in 00:21:04.539 --> 00:21:09.109 a trench. Better working conditions as far as 00:21:09.109 --> 00:21:11.930 a little bit more time off, better pay, zero 00:21:11.930 --> 00:21:14.470 fire, which is a complete turnoff to me, but 00:21:14.470 --> 00:21:16.910 I was doing it because I was a single dad getting 00:21:16.910 --> 00:21:19.309 forced to do multiple overtimes in my previous 00:21:19.309 --> 00:21:22.769 one. You would think that if it was just an easier 00:21:22.769 --> 00:21:25.369 life that you'd have people lining up around 00:21:25.369 --> 00:21:26.970 the door, but it wasn't the case. It was the 00:21:26.970 --> 00:21:29.250 opposite. They were begging people to come work 00:21:29.250 --> 00:21:32.369 there. So I think it's such a myth that lowering 00:21:32.369 --> 00:21:35.390 the bar will help with recruitment. And I think 00:21:35.390 --> 00:21:37.069 it's the opposite. When you keep the bar high, 00:21:37.289 --> 00:21:40.690 like you said, you get a lot of people testing, 00:21:40.769 --> 00:21:42.829 but the right kind of person. And if someone 00:21:42.829 --> 00:21:45.190 is entering the profession with their belly already 00:21:45.190 --> 00:21:48.490 hanging over their belt, is that person 10 years 00:21:48.490 --> 00:21:50.730 from now going to be able to go 20 stories up 00:21:50.730 --> 00:21:53.930 in Grenfell and carry someone down? I mean, you 00:21:53.930 --> 00:21:55.710 don't have to be a genius to figure out the answer 00:21:55.710 --> 00:22:00.720 is no. Yeah, I mean, I look after myself. I try 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:03.000 my best to look after myself and take care of 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:05.279 myself. Gym's a huge part of my mental health 00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:10.440 aspect and stuff. But, you know, not to say that 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:12.680 I'd struggle, but that's what keeps me going, 00:22:12.740 --> 00:22:14.700 is that thought of being in that moment where 00:22:14.700 --> 00:22:16.180 you've got nothing else, the chips are down, 00:22:16.259 --> 00:22:18.180 you've got nothing else left. The only thing 00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:21.200 you can rely on is what you've learned subconsciously 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:23.579 and the physical condition your body's in to 00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:26.069 get you out of trouble. That and a BA set are 00:22:26.069 --> 00:22:27.289 the only things that are really going to save 00:22:27.289 --> 00:22:30.930 your life when it all goes to itself, you know. 00:22:31.170 --> 00:22:33.410 But you're exactly right. That bar's got to a 00:22:33.410 --> 00:22:35.009 point. Why should we not be picking from the 00:22:35.009 --> 00:22:38.269 pool up here, you know, if the standard is that 00:22:38.269 --> 00:22:40.309 high? I mean, I applied, like I said, seven or 00:22:40.309 --> 00:22:42.549 eight times, and I think that actually favoured 00:22:42.549 --> 00:22:44.470 me going through that process. And the guys getting 00:22:44.470 --> 00:22:45.730 to know everyone, they're like, well, this is 00:22:45.730 --> 00:22:49.210 somebody we want. You know, he might not be the 00:22:49.210 --> 00:22:52.279 smartest kid in the class. but he's done his 00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:54.180 bit to get where he is, and he obviously wants 00:22:54.180 --> 00:22:57.359 to do the job. So by keeping that standard at 00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:00.380 a certain level, if people fail, we're looking 00:23:00.380 --> 00:23:02.220 at people that want to come back, want to get 00:23:02.220 --> 00:23:04.279 to that position to be able to get into the job. 00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:08.200 It doesn't have to be bloody peak level of fitness, 00:23:08.259 --> 00:23:12.740 but to a level where it's decent, not where it 00:23:12.740 --> 00:23:16.720 is at the moment. Well, it also just shows that 00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:19.240 you have done the preparation before you walk 00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:25.009 through the front door. When I was going to the 00:23:25.009 --> 00:23:27.410 fire academy, I was working a day job. I was 00:23:27.410 --> 00:23:28.849 going to the fire academy because we have to 00:23:28.849 --> 00:23:31.349 school ourselves usually here and then go test 00:23:31.349 --> 00:23:34.410 for a job. So I was working Monday to Friday. 00:23:34.529 --> 00:23:37.230 And then three evenings a week, I was going to 00:23:37.230 --> 00:23:39.410 school at night. And then it was one weekend 00:23:39.410 --> 00:23:41.650 day as well. On my lunch break, I was going to 00:23:41.650 --> 00:23:44.130 the YMCA and strength training. And then when 00:23:44.130 --> 00:23:46.390 I got home, like you, I was running usually four 00:23:46.390 --> 00:23:48.329 or five miles multiple times a week as well. 00:23:48.509 --> 00:23:50.690 Getting to the fire academy early, doing some 00:23:50.690 --> 00:23:53.390 combat challenge style training before we even 00:23:53.390 --> 00:23:56.309 started our class. So then when you show up at 00:23:56.309 --> 00:23:58.130 the front door, you're like, I don't care who 00:23:58.130 --> 00:24:00.710 else you're testing with. Like, I know that I'm 00:24:00.710 --> 00:24:03.599 at least ready for one of those positions. And 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:05.880 that's the difference between what we're talking 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:07.980 about when you lower the bar and the kind of 00:24:07.980 --> 00:24:10.599 man and woman that you get is that on day one, 00:24:10.660 --> 00:24:13.700 you're ready to do now. Show me the job. Teach 00:24:13.700 --> 00:24:15.759 me your way of doing it. I've got my fitness 00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:18.819 down. I've got my skills down. I've got my academic 00:24:18.819 --> 00:24:22.079 preparation. Now I'm ready for you to show me 00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:25.240 how to be a real -world firefighter. Yeah, for 00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:29.519 sure. Our process, once we got to training school, 00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:31.900 you got found out pretty quick at training school. 00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:35.119 I was really fortunate enough to do my training 00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:38.960 course in Evenly, the fire service college. So 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:40.619 one of the largest colleges in the world. It's 00:24:40.619 --> 00:24:43.519 a fantastic facility. And we did 20 weeks with 00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:47.019 our training course away from home on site. And 00:24:47.019 --> 00:24:49.299 I can remember waking up and people leaving in 00:24:49.299 --> 00:24:51.240 the middle of the night. they'd pack their rooms 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:54.220 up and go you know it's and that was we still 00:24:54.220 --> 00:24:56.920 had that discipline service style of it we'd 00:24:56.920 --> 00:24:58.759 get room checked in the morning our rooms would 00:24:58.759 --> 00:25:00.420 come in to check our rooms you know if you didn't 00:25:00.420 --> 00:25:01.980 have your rooms they'd throw it all about they'd 00:25:01.980 --> 00:25:03.480 have you out in the squad line and you're full 00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:05.440 undressed and they'd be checking out they'd have 00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:07.900 you out and you in the drill yard in your fire 00:25:07.900 --> 00:25:09.980 kit checking your boots you know making sure 00:25:09.980 --> 00:25:12.819 everything was tipped up and then as the course 00:25:12.819 --> 00:25:14.900 progressed people would drop out they'd just 00:25:14.900 --> 00:25:16.880 naturally drop out I just found out it wasn't 00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:21.039 for them but Oh, go on to a quick story before 00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:23.660 I forget it. There was a sub -officer called 00:25:23.660 --> 00:25:26.240 Sub -Officer Hookway, and he was like the drill 00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:28.480 sergeant. Little moustache, he'd get right up 00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:30.240 in your face, screaming and shouting. And we 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:34.039 had these 25 -litre foam drums that were stuck 00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:37.799 on the drill yard. And if you fucked up, they'd 00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.700 go foam canisters into the barrier, so you'd 00:25:40.700 --> 00:25:42.279 have to pick up two foam carriers, and you'd 00:25:42.279 --> 00:25:43.759 run all the way up to this barrier, and then 00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:45.880 run all the way back, get back in the squad line, 00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:49.140 50 press -ups, whatever it would be. And as the 00:25:49.140 --> 00:25:51.759 course went on, myself and one of my pals who 00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:54.339 was on the course with me, Robbo Robertson, we 00:25:54.339 --> 00:25:57.900 emptied a few of these out and marked them with 00:25:57.900 --> 00:26:02.619 China graphs. So whenever we got a bollocking, 00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:07.440 we were the first to that pile of foam canisters 00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:09.680 to pick them up. And you'd be running along going, 00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:13.740 hey! as you run past the instructors but yeah 00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:16.660 sorry to digress but yeah it was it was tough 00:26:16.660 --> 00:26:19.839 but do you know what so fun the memories i have 00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:22.200 of how difficult it was and how much i enjoyed 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:25.279 it the studying aspect of it you know we got 00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:27.440 the opportunity to go home on a friday spend 00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:29.319 the weekend with our family but we did all our 00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:32.180 exams on the monday and that first couple of 00:26:32.180 --> 00:26:34.539 weeks i failed like two exams and like you fail 00:26:34.539 --> 00:26:36.710 one more and you're gone And I was like, wow. 00:26:36.829 --> 00:26:39.390 So then I just stayed for the whole of the reign 00:26:39.390 --> 00:26:41.329 in 18 weeks. I just didn't bother going home. 00:26:41.349 --> 00:26:43.009 I just spent the weekend there studying, you 00:26:43.009 --> 00:26:47.410 know. It's funny you say that. Firstly, the shared 00:26:47.410 --> 00:26:50.930 suffering when the bar is set high forges a much 00:26:50.930 --> 00:26:53.230 tighter knit group. And I think that's something 00:26:53.230 --> 00:26:56.329 that's lost in the conversation. But my first 00:26:56.329 --> 00:26:59.230 apartment, Hialeah. we had the Kaiser sled and 00:26:59.230 --> 00:27:01.789 it was on the roof of the, uh, the burn building. 00:27:01.910 --> 00:27:03.990 So it was a five story tower. And then it was 00:27:03.990 --> 00:27:06.269 on the, on the roof of that. So it was exposed 00:27:06.269 --> 00:27:08.509 to, you know, Miami weather. So extreme heat 00:27:08.509 --> 00:27:10.970 and these thunderstorms. So this damn thing was 00:27:10.970 --> 00:27:12.650 all rusty and you'd hit it and it would barely 00:27:12.650 --> 00:27:15.809 move. So we would sneak up just like you guys 00:27:15.809 --> 00:27:20.089 sand it down, put WD 40 on it, but you know, 00:27:20.089 --> 00:27:21.710 but then the instructor would see, we'd hit it 00:27:21.710 --> 00:27:23.589 once and the fricking thing would slide all the 00:27:23.589 --> 00:27:27.750 way across to the other side. Really? That's 00:27:27.750 --> 00:27:30.029 one of the things. You can't leave firefighters 00:27:30.029 --> 00:27:32.450 to their own devices. You leave them for long 00:27:32.450 --> 00:27:34.089 enough, they'll find out a way to get themselves 00:27:34.089 --> 00:27:36.250 in trouble or you in trouble. So you've got to 00:27:36.250 --> 00:27:39.910 keep them occupied, definitely. But going back 00:27:39.910 --> 00:27:41.750 to the recruitment, they finished the recruitment, 00:27:41.849 --> 00:27:43.990 but the courses itself now are like 11. They 00:27:43.990 --> 00:27:46.450 were eight weeks long in London. They've extended 00:27:46.450 --> 00:27:49.029 that now for another two weeks on top of that. 00:27:49.470 --> 00:27:52.690 But you hear horror stories of the training courses 00:27:52.690 --> 00:27:56.349 and where they're at. The hot wares and stuff 00:27:56.349 --> 00:27:58.289 that they do, they're not good enough as far 00:27:58.289 --> 00:28:00.569 as I'm concerned. That's my personal opinion. 00:28:00.990 --> 00:28:03.250 We should be putting people into a position where 00:28:03.250 --> 00:28:05.450 you are at the point of dropping to your knees. 00:28:05.650 --> 00:28:08.049 You need to experience that before you come to 00:28:08.049 --> 00:28:12.509 a fire station. I remember we did something called 00:28:12.509 --> 00:28:16.210 a varied conditions drill and exercise, and it 00:28:16.210 --> 00:28:18.170 was basically you get paired up with your BA 00:28:18.170 --> 00:28:21.000 partner. And it was this place, they basically 00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:23.420 just hop -hopped it out with cribs. And it was 00:28:23.420 --> 00:28:26.200 little tunnels where you had to turn around, 00:28:26.299 --> 00:28:29.279 do the Superman thing to get through. And it 00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:31.859 was over three floors. It was exhausting. Your 00:28:31.859 --> 00:28:33.559 whistle would go on your set, so you're coming 00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:36.160 down to 50 bar. They'd get you to break the seal. 00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:38.400 They'd walk you out, take the cylinder out of 00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:40.000 your back, put a new one in, turn it on, and 00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:42.039 then throw you in and switch you around. And 00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:44.759 you didn't know where you was, what day of the 00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:48.289 week it was. But that was... So challenging, 00:28:48.369 --> 00:28:50.589 and we're missing that now in our recruitment. 00:28:50.670 --> 00:28:52.690 We get guys coming to the station. The level 00:28:52.690 --> 00:28:55.710 of training that you get in fire -related hotwares 00:28:55.710 --> 00:29:00.990 is not acceptable. I'm going into jobs with recruits, 00:29:00.990 --> 00:29:02.109 and they're like, oh, it's a bit odd. I'm like, 00:29:02.210 --> 00:29:04.170 you're kidding me, right? There's not even any 00:29:04.170 --> 00:29:08.390 steam coming off this yet. And again, going back 00:29:08.390 --> 00:29:12.029 to Hialeah, that's how it was there. They created 00:29:12.029 --> 00:29:14.710 basically an unwinnable scenario, but they didn't 00:29:14.710 --> 00:29:16.789 tell us it was unwinnable. And they said that 00:29:16.789 --> 00:29:19.250 our jobs depended on it to see how far we would 00:29:19.250 --> 00:29:21.730 push. And, you know, guys are thrown up in the 00:29:21.730 --> 00:29:23.410 mask and exactly what you're talking about. They 00:29:23.410 --> 00:29:25.269 had like a collapse maze. And so you couldn't, 00:29:25.269 --> 00:29:28.210 you know, you couldn't DC your mask. So one guy's 00:29:28.210 --> 00:29:30.450 breathing through his puke the whole time. Whenever 00:29:30.450 --> 00:29:32.490 we're done, people getting like double lactated 00:29:32.490 --> 00:29:36.670 ringers, IVs in both arms. And it was exhausting, 00:29:36.890 --> 00:29:38.670 but the whole point was it was kind of like that 00:29:38.670 --> 00:29:41.609 hell week mentality, like how far can you push? 00:29:41.769 --> 00:29:43.509 Within reason, of course. They were very good. 00:29:43.549 --> 00:29:45.769 I'll say this, very, very good when it came to 00:29:45.769 --> 00:29:50.009 cooling, rehab, all that stuff. But it was the 00:29:50.009 --> 00:29:53.569 worst of places that you took yourself. And then, 00:29:53.690 --> 00:29:55.690 you know, since then, as I progressed through 00:29:55.690 --> 00:29:59.170 my career and I found CrossFit, I also loved 00:29:59.170 --> 00:30:01.089 the fact that you were redlining a workout, you 00:30:01.089 --> 00:30:03.839 know, once, twice a week. So the last time you 00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:07.339 were in a really fucking horrible place was Tuesday, 00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:11.039 not Fire Academy 10 years ago. You know what 00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:13.599 I mean? So I couldn't agree with you more. If 00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:15.640 when you lower that bar, you do a disservice. 00:30:15.980 --> 00:30:17.880 Now, you know, someone's stuck on the eighth 00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:20.720 floor of a fire and they're freaking out. And 00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:22.240 now they pull the mask off their face and they 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:25.900 die versus having that mental fortitude. And 00:30:25.900 --> 00:30:28.680 the physical resilience to be like, this is awful, 00:30:28.779 --> 00:30:30.759 but I know what awful is like. I've been here 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:34.220 before. I can get myself out. Yeah, I think a 00:30:34.220 --> 00:30:37.099 large part of, you know, what we've done in regards 00:30:37.099 --> 00:30:38.980 to martial arts and stuff, I think that's been, 00:30:39.019 --> 00:30:41.779 that sets a different callus on your brain for 00:30:41.779 --> 00:30:44.000 them times when it's tough, you know, or their 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:46.140 moments when it physically, you know, you've 00:30:46.140 --> 00:30:48.640 got a second, third or fourth gear, or you've 00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:50.359 got that second wind in the tank. There's been 00:30:50.359 --> 00:30:52.339 times I've been in the, you know, doing shark 00:30:52.339 --> 00:30:55.980 tank before about, and I've been absolutely blasted. 00:30:56.910 --> 00:30:58.529 fresh opponent, fresh opponent, fresh opponent, 00:30:58.609 --> 00:31:00.549 fresh opponent. And you're, you know, you're 00:31:00.549 --> 00:31:03.490 25 minutes into, into sparring and you've got 00:31:03.490 --> 00:31:05.109 nothing left. And then all of a sudden you hit 00:31:05.109 --> 00:31:06.970 that sweet spot again and you go three or four 00:31:06.970 --> 00:31:08.990 rounds. Like you've just walked into the, to 00:31:08.990 --> 00:31:12.569 the cage. And it's definitely, definitely what 00:31:12.569 --> 00:31:14.710 we need to put people in depression. We need 00:31:14.710 --> 00:31:17.109 to put it in that environment where it is controlled 00:31:17.109 --> 00:31:19.430 before it gets, before it does become out of 00:31:19.430 --> 00:31:22.750 hand, you know? Absolutely. So where did you 00:31:22.750 --> 00:31:26.529 find yourself assigned first after Academy? So 00:31:26.529 --> 00:31:28.609 I come out of training school and I was assigned 00:31:28.609 --> 00:31:31.049 to Bletchley Fire Station, which was literally 00:31:31.049 --> 00:31:34.329 where I grew up, where the area I grew up. So 00:31:34.329 --> 00:31:35.829 which was quite rare because they never used 00:31:35.829 --> 00:31:38.309 to like you to serve in the area where you lived, 00:31:38.349 --> 00:31:41.690 where you grew up. So so I ended up on Blue Watch 00:31:41.690 --> 00:31:46.109 Bletchley Fire Station. I was there for a couple 00:31:46.109 --> 00:31:48.089 of years and then they moved us to what was a. 00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:52.220 Classed as like a super station back then. It 00:31:52.220 --> 00:31:54.700 was called Great Home, which is in central Milton 00:31:54.700 --> 00:31:57.740 Keynes, so one of the central to the city. Multi 00:31:57.740 --> 00:32:01.440 -appliance station, had a turntable ladder, had 00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:04.880 a command unit, two frontline appliances. So 00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:07.660 watch strength of like, I think we had a watch 00:32:07.660 --> 00:32:09.579 strength of around about 17, something like that. 00:32:09.660 --> 00:32:11.819 So we've got loads of good fun. That was pretty 00:32:11.819 --> 00:32:15.559 cool. Risks completely different. You know, the 00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:18.200 city, high rises, some more high rises, et cetera. 00:32:18.809 --> 00:32:21.910 uh overground trains bits and pieces like that 00:32:21.910 --> 00:32:24.329 but yeah essentially started bletchley went over 00:32:24.329 --> 00:32:26.690 to great home spent a number of years there but 00:32:26.690 --> 00:32:30.250 yeah fans such a fond memory but both them stations 00:32:30.250 --> 00:32:31.670 are gone now they're gone they've been knocked 00:32:31.670 --> 00:32:33.190 down they've been knocked down and they've built 00:32:33.190 --> 00:32:36.630 a super station you know the government timings 00:32:36.630 --> 00:32:39.410 and and everything where the uk we had to supply 00:32:39.410 --> 00:32:42.250 a fire engine within the first five minutes of 00:32:42.250 --> 00:32:44.730 a call and then the second had to be within seven 00:32:44.730 --> 00:32:47.880 minutes Because the government wanted to mess 00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:50.279 about with statistics and start cutting stations 00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:52.640 and stuff, they took that off the table. And 00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:56.160 then all of a sudden, two of the main stations 00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:58.240 within Milton Keynes have shut and put one right 00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:00.559 in the middle. So we were never making times 00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:02.720 what we would have done previously with the two 00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:04.539 stations, the way that they were parted, you 00:33:04.539 --> 00:33:07.880 know. So that was mildly frustrating. That was, 00:33:07.940 --> 00:33:10.819 it got really frustrating, to be honest with 00:33:10.819 --> 00:33:13.220 you. We had a few new... Group commanders, quite 00:33:13.220 --> 00:33:15.279 high -level ranking officers come in, weren't 00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:17.940 up for that watch mentality. So they started 00:33:17.940 --> 00:33:20.559 moving an officer and several firefighters off 00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:22.480 a watch and moving them around. So they wanted 00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:25.599 to break that watch culture, which was beyond 00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:27.799 me. And that was one of the reasons I ended up 00:33:27.799 --> 00:33:31.740 transferring over to London. I've seen that in 00:33:31.740 --> 00:33:33.920 quite a few departments. I never understand it. 00:33:33.940 --> 00:33:35.859 Oh, we need to break that crew up, you know, 00:33:35.859 --> 00:33:37.980 move them around. Or we'll rotate crews through 00:33:37.980 --> 00:33:42.319 different stations. Seeing the value of a tight 00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:45.680 -knit crew that is really familiar with their 00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:47.779 area, with their first due, and they understand 00:33:47.779 --> 00:33:49.279 the idiosyncrasies. You mentioned the train. 00:33:49.420 --> 00:33:52.180 They know, we can't go down here for this call 00:33:52.180 --> 00:33:53.480 because if there's a train going, we're going 00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:55.000 to get stuck, so we can go around this way. That's 00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:56.640 going to take us over a bridge. We can't go that 00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:58.880 way. It's a one -way, or it dead -ends into a 00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:02.000 park. Those are so important. And then the people, 00:34:02.099 --> 00:34:04.740 the actual humans. Okay, it's probably this guy. 00:34:04.819 --> 00:34:07.339 He's homeless. He's got a history of violence. 00:34:07.460 --> 00:34:10.929 We've got to be careful. To break that up because 00:34:10.929 --> 00:34:14.289 you're threatened by the egos or the strength 00:34:14.289 --> 00:34:15.730 of the leadership in that department or whatever 00:34:15.730 --> 00:34:18.610 the thing is, it never made any sense to me. 00:34:18.650 --> 00:34:22.570 If that crew is working well and they're really 00:34:22.570 --> 00:34:23.949 good at what they do and they have a thorough 00:34:23.949 --> 00:34:27.550 knowledge of their first due, why would you rotate 00:34:27.550 --> 00:34:30.849 them just for the sake of rotating them? Yeah, 00:34:30.929 --> 00:34:34.210 I put that down to that senior management and 00:34:34.210 --> 00:34:36.190 somebody having to do something to look for promotion. 00:34:36.309 --> 00:34:38.750 So they've got to be seen to implement something 00:34:38.750 --> 00:34:42.030 within the brigade that warrants a tick in a 00:34:42.030 --> 00:34:44.750 box for their recruit, for them going for the 00:34:44.750 --> 00:34:46.750 next promotion round to the upper levels, the 00:34:46.750 --> 00:34:50.269 seniority, you know. But that was super frustrating. 00:34:50.550 --> 00:34:53.269 I mean, it got to a point when I was in Bucks 00:34:53.269 --> 00:34:57.070 as well. you guys out in the states i'm not sure 00:34:57.070 --> 00:34:59.070 whether it's anything that you do we have our 00:34:59.070 --> 00:35:01.010 retained section so which would be our volunteers 00:35:01.010 --> 00:35:04.349 that get paid but then what happened was we started 00:35:04.349 --> 00:35:07.030 getting um they started coming up with other 00:35:07.030 --> 00:35:10.690 different shifts um for firefighters so we'd 00:35:10.690 --> 00:35:14.269 have a uh bank shift which would basically be 00:35:14.269 --> 00:35:17.289 anybody who was on call could apply for a bank 00:35:17.289 --> 00:35:19.389 shift off any other station whether it be a retained 00:35:19.389 --> 00:35:21.489 station a volunteer station to come to a whole 00:35:21.489 --> 00:35:25.320 time station And then you'd have this resilience 00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:28.699 crew. So crews that would only work days, wouldn't 00:35:28.699 --> 00:35:30.619 do nights, wouldn't work weekends, but they'd 00:35:30.619 --> 00:35:32.900 be expected to go anywhere within the brigade. 00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:38.079 So there was one incident. I was driving. I turn 00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:40.400 around. I look in the back of the cab. I've got 00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:43.579 people that are all on more money than I am. 00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:45.840 on different shift patterns. And it was like, 00:35:45.980 --> 00:35:49.820 nah, this isn't right. I can't live with this, 00:35:49.860 --> 00:35:52.139 you know. And we had a really snotty job out 00:35:52.139 --> 00:35:54.320 on road traffic collision. And you've got guys 00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:57.480 that are just not experienced enough or haven't 00:35:57.480 --> 00:35:59.679 worked with before. And going back to that whole, 00:35:59.780 --> 00:36:02.199 you know, maintaining that watch culture and 00:36:02.199 --> 00:36:06.099 everybody's strengths and weaknesses. It was 00:36:06.099 --> 00:36:08.219 just, yeah, it was starting to get mind -boggling 00:36:08.219 --> 00:36:10.460 and I started to get a bit resentful. of the 00:36:10.460 --> 00:36:11.900 brigade and everything they were implementing 00:36:11.900 --> 00:36:16.119 at the time. Hence, again, the move. Going back 00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:18.679 to being assigned to the station where you grew 00:36:18.679 --> 00:36:21.780 up, one of the things that I never had to experience 00:36:21.780 --> 00:36:24.639 because I always lived somewhere else, worked 00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:27.760 in a different place than I lived, but you hear 00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:30.000 the volunteers, especially here in America, and 00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:33.079 the retained firefighters in the UK, did you 00:36:33.079 --> 00:36:35.119 have any incidences where you ended up running 00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:38.619 on someone that you knew? Yeah, yeah. I lost 00:36:38.619 --> 00:36:41.440 somebody I went to school with, but I turned 00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:43.340 up at a road traffic collision, a girl called 00:36:43.340 --> 00:36:46.300 Lucy Redmond. We were the first on scene. She'd 00:36:46.300 --> 00:36:50.699 been, was basically come in. So where in Milton 00:36:50.699 --> 00:36:52.320 Keynes, it kind of like, it's built on the grid 00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:55.539 system. It's similar to sort of the cities that 00:36:55.539 --> 00:36:57.760 you guys have got in the States. It's like blocks, 00:36:57.820 --> 00:37:00.039 built on that grid system. If you ever go wrong, 00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:02.000 you just turn right, turn right, turn right again, 00:37:02.059 --> 00:37:03.460 and you'll be back where you started, you know? 00:37:03.699 --> 00:37:08.940 So dual carriageways. high speed road, 70 mile 00:37:08.940 --> 00:37:10.559 an hour we were looking at, but then we had, 00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:13.059 because you had these estates, these blocks, 00:37:13.219 --> 00:37:15.579 you had people wanting to travel across a fast 00:37:15.579 --> 00:37:18.719 moving lane of traffic, double lane, to get into, 00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:21.019 to go the way that they wanted to go. And we 00:37:21.019 --> 00:37:23.119 campaigned for years to get them cut off, because 00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:24.659 the amount of road traffic collisions we were 00:37:24.659 --> 00:37:27.519 attending was the majority of our calls at the 00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:30.659 time. And she'd just come out and got T -boned 00:37:30.659 --> 00:37:33.860 by a big old BMW doing that 70 mile an hour, 00:37:33.960 --> 00:37:37.309 flipped her, flipped the car around, was first 00:37:37.309 --> 00:37:40.389 on the scene and I remember it didn't dawn on 00:37:40.389 --> 00:37:43.309 me to start with because the engine of the car 00:37:43.309 --> 00:37:46.170 was out I was on the bonnet just holding sort 00:37:46.170 --> 00:37:48.630 of just maintaining her airway and stuff and 00:37:48.630 --> 00:37:52.170 it was like somebody switched a tap on just the 00:37:52.170 --> 00:37:54.150 blood just started coming out of her nose really 00:37:54.150 --> 00:37:56.469 quickly she started ripping around and that was 00:37:56.469 --> 00:37:59.690 it she'd gone you know and that was yeah but 00:37:59.690 --> 00:38:02.059 it didn't it didn't hit me straight away that's 00:38:02.059 --> 00:38:04.159 who it was until we started tidying up the ceiling 00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:05.639 the police were doing their thing and then you 00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:07.559 go into the whole body retrieval thing you're 00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:09.920 like wow wow i used to go to school with you 00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:13.860 you know What impact did that have? Because like 00:38:13.860 --> 00:38:16.420 I said, when I drive around Orlando, like when 00:38:16.420 --> 00:38:18.619 I go to the airport, for example, I always go 00:38:18.619 --> 00:38:21.400 past a place where I had a taxi versus two pedestrians. 00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:25.280 My first call is a paramedic, standalone paramedic. 00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:29.019 But, you know, so I visit the cities and when 00:38:29.019 --> 00:38:31.039 I do drive there, I see these things, but I don't 00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:33.519 live there. What impact did that have? Because, 00:38:33.579 --> 00:38:35.099 I mean, this is something that our volunteers 00:38:35.099 --> 00:38:38.300 really, you know, experience a lot and no one 00:38:38.300 --> 00:38:40.179 talks about it that much as far as on the career 00:38:40.179 --> 00:38:43.780 side. What impact did that have on you as far 00:38:43.780 --> 00:38:46.179 as knowing a patient versus maybe later, especially 00:38:46.179 --> 00:38:48.159 in London, where the chances of that were slim 00:38:48.159 --> 00:38:55.340 to none? It affects me still now. A lot of my 00:38:55.340 --> 00:38:57.179 family now have moved out from Milton Keynes, 00:38:57.219 --> 00:38:59.000 but there's not a road where we didn't have a 00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:01.780 road traffic collision. And unfortunately, what 00:39:01.780 --> 00:39:04.219 they get, you go around Milton Keynes, you'll 00:39:04.219 --> 00:39:06.769 see memorial after memorial. near the area where 00:39:06.769 --> 00:39:09.050 that road traffic collision was. So there's a 00:39:09.050 --> 00:39:10.670 constant reminder when you drive in. There's 00:39:10.670 --> 00:39:12.750 certain roads that I won't even drive down because 00:39:12.750 --> 00:39:17.090 it was so bad and it triggers memories and thought 00:39:17.090 --> 00:39:19.650 processes and stuff. But yeah, there's parts, 00:39:19.789 --> 00:39:21.929 like you said, there's areas that I won't drive. 00:39:22.230 --> 00:39:24.170 There's roads that I won't drive down because 00:39:24.170 --> 00:39:27.489 it triggers some memories and stuff with some 00:39:27.489 --> 00:39:31.110 pretty gnarly road traffic collisions. One in 00:39:31.110 --> 00:39:34.349 particular that I still struggle with, we had 00:39:34.349 --> 00:39:38.780 on the A421. Two lorries, car stuck in the middle, 00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:42.639 boom, just squished in between. We get there. 00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:46.099 It's just nice and slow. There's nothing we can 00:39:46.099 --> 00:39:48.119 do. The car's absolutely obliterated. It's down 00:39:48.119 --> 00:39:49.840 the back of an Arctic. It's been pushed all the 00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:52.460 way down the back of an Arctic. So we were there 00:39:52.460 --> 00:39:55.119 for about four hours, cutting, moving, cutting, 00:39:55.340 --> 00:39:59.699 moving, cutting, moving, body, body, body. And 00:39:59.699 --> 00:40:02.219 then I think there's five people removed from 00:40:02.219 --> 00:40:05.349 the car. It was just corseted like the length 00:40:05.349 --> 00:40:09.070 of a dining room table. And there was a six -month 00:40:09.070 --> 00:40:11.949 -old baby on the mum's lap. And that was the 00:40:11.949 --> 00:40:14.050 only survivor of that incident. She was curled 00:40:14.050 --> 00:40:16.210 up in the mum's lap. And that was the only person 00:40:16.210 --> 00:40:18.389 that survived was that little baby stuck in that 00:40:18.389 --> 00:40:24.309 car. And that, yeah, that was a huge one for 00:40:24.309 --> 00:40:26.269 us, which I still struggle with to this day. 00:40:26.389 --> 00:40:29.690 So that road gets bypassed, unfortunately, now. 00:40:30.789 --> 00:40:33.070 Understandably so. This is what drives me crazy 00:40:33.070 --> 00:40:35.510 in America. And I don't know, I'm assuming the 00:40:35.510 --> 00:40:37.610 British driving standards are the same. But when 00:40:37.610 --> 00:40:40.150 you contrast the two, having, you know, been 00:40:40.150 --> 00:40:43.230 a 17 -year -old kid that took driving tests in 00:40:43.230 --> 00:40:45.590 England, and then as a 27 -year -old took the 00:40:45.590 --> 00:40:48.750 driving test here in America, our test standards 00:40:48.750 --> 00:40:51.909 are so, so low. And I've been here, you know, 00:40:51.929 --> 00:40:55.250 over 20 years now. And not once have I ever heard 00:40:55.250 --> 00:40:57.150 a conversation about, well, what are we going 00:40:57.150 --> 00:40:59.750 to do to make... You know, to improve the way 00:40:59.750 --> 00:41:02.570 that we train our drivers, because they put roundabouts 00:41:02.570 --> 00:41:04.550 everywhere here. No one's even had any education 00:41:04.550 --> 00:41:07.010 on how to use a roundabout. I mean, it's insane. 00:41:07.510 --> 00:41:09.690 So we have, but you're talking about memorials. 00:41:09.690 --> 00:41:11.849 All our roads have just memorials everywhere, 00:41:11.969 --> 00:41:14.090 little round circles with flowers next to them. 00:41:14.690 --> 00:41:17.210 And it's over and over and over and again. And 00:41:17.210 --> 00:41:20.349 I hold the UK up as probably some of the highest 00:41:20.349 --> 00:41:22.230 standards of driving. A lot of our, you know, 00:41:22.250 --> 00:41:23.909 when we were young, everyone was taking them 00:41:23.909 --> 00:41:27.469 two, three, four times before they passed. And 00:41:27.469 --> 00:41:29.570 our roads are dangerous, obviously, very narrow, 00:41:29.730 --> 00:41:32.050 single lane each way, usually the lanes in the 00:41:32.050 --> 00:41:36.289 countryside. I wish that the US would have the 00:41:36.289 --> 00:41:38.929 humility to say, look, I think we have something 00:41:38.929 --> 00:41:42.050 crazy like 6 million accidents a year. We lose 00:41:42.050 --> 00:41:45.690 40 ,000 people, 40 ,000 people die every year, 00:41:45.710 --> 00:41:48.349 every year. And that's probably hundreds of thousands 00:41:48.349 --> 00:41:51.090 with life -changing injuries that survived and 00:41:51.090 --> 00:41:54.070 zero conversation about the driving standards. 00:41:54.980 --> 00:42:00.000 Yeah, so yeah, definitely. I think here, with 00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:03.139 regards, I can... give my personal experience 00:42:03.139 --> 00:42:06.019 with with an older daughter you know she's 24 00:42:06.019 --> 00:42:08.199 watching her go through her driving lessons etc 00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:11.480 and the things that the insurance companies implement 00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:14.820 now with the insurances are so high that the 00:42:14.820 --> 00:42:16.739 expectation is to have these little black boxes 00:42:16.739 --> 00:42:19.139 in their car so they're only allowed to go out 00:42:19.139 --> 00:42:21.519 at certain times of the night it flags up if 00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:23.440 they break the speed limit so that can increase 00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:26.159 their insurances so again that's another method 00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:29.739 to keep in them if they don't have that within 00:42:29.739 --> 00:42:31.679 their vehicle then their insurance premium is 00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:33.579 through the roof you know more like more often 00:42:33.579 --> 00:42:35.059 than not the insurance is going to cost more 00:42:35.059 --> 00:42:36.639 than what the car is for their first vehicle 00:42:36.639 --> 00:42:39.539 so they've got to have this black box there's 00:42:39.539 --> 00:42:42.440 that period of time from say 10 o 'clock in the 00:42:42.440 --> 00:42:44.519 evening and they're not allowed to drive and 00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:46.860 go from six in the morning it monitors their 00:42:46.860 --> 00:42:49.000 speed and then they'll get letters through and 00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:53.000 all sorts so we yeah i mean i've driven in the 00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:55.460 states a few times it's a bit wild it's a bit 00:42:55.460 --> 00:43:01.489 too wild for me it is crazy Well, I know we obviously 00:43:01.489 --> 00:43:02.949 were going to talk about kind of your mental 00:43:02.949 --> 00:43:05.429 health journey. Just before we do, if it lines 00:43:05.429 --> 00:43:08.190 up, what about some other career calls? They 00:43:08.190 --> 00:43:10.429 don't have to be the nastiest, gory ones by any 00:43:10.429 --> 00:43:12.690 means, but significant calls throughout your 00:43:12.690 --> 00:43:17.989 career. Oh, yeah. Do you know, James, I think 00:43:17.989 --> 00:43:21.110 I probably speak for a lot of people that do 00:43:21.110 --> 00:43:25.650 this job, whether they be. you know ambulance 00:43:25.650 --> 00:43:28.409 service ems that kind of thing firefighters i 00:43:28.409 --> 00:43:30.650 can remember the first fatal incident i went 00:43:30.650 --> 00:43:32.090 to and i can remember the last one that i went 00:43:32.090 --> 00:43:34.409 to a couple of months back and everything in 00:43:34.409 --> 00:43:38.269 between um they don't go away they don't you 00:43:38.269 --> 00:43:40.829 can protect yourself as much as you can but some 00:43:40.829 --> 00:43:43.289 which are some really significant ones which 00:43:43.289 --> 00:43:47.230 really stand out for me um when i moved to london 00:43:47.230 --> 00:43:49.489 one of the first incidents we had one of the 00:43:49.489 --> 00:43:51.769 first incidents but one of the bad fables we 00:43:51.769 --> 00:43:56.210 had we had a ram flat fire so it was a house 00:43:56.210 --> 00:43:58.550 had been turned into two two flats essentially 00:43:58.550 --> 00:44:01.670 entrance on the side for the upper flat for the 00:44:01.670 --> 00:44:04.070 first floor and then a ground floor flat so we 00:44:04.070 --> 00:44:05.469 turned up there's smoke coming around the back 00:44:05.469 --> 00:44:08.050 of the house and there's guys with suitcases 00:44:08.050 --> 00:44:10.030 coming out of the ground floor flat and i'm like 00:44:10.030 --> 00:44:11.429 is anybody in there anybody in there they're 00:44:11.429 --> 00:44:12.929 like yeah they could hear somebody banging about 00:44:12.929 --> 00:44:15.170 so then right that gets flagged up personal reported 00:44:15.170 --> 00:44:17.610 we've got every man and their dog turning up 00:44:17.610 --> 00:44:21.250 then so we're going under air and by the front 00:44:21.250 --> 00:44:23.659 door Tried to get the front door open. It's only 00:44:23.659 --> 00:44:26.320 open by a couple of inches. Ramming, ramming, 00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:28.679 can't get in, can't get in. Managed to drop my 00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:31.039 shoulder and it blasted open the door and the 00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:34.360 place was just hoarded like you could never imagine. 00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:37.940 You were fighting to get up the stairs with the 00:44:37.940 --> 00:44:39.440 amount of paper and stuff that was on there. 00:44:39.460 --> 00:44:41.039 You were sliding back down again. And I could 00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:43.340 see the glow and the fire licking around the 00:44:43.340 --> 00:44:46.579 top on the landing. So we've gone up, we've gone 00:44:46.579 --> 00:44:48.980 up to our BA partner, gone straight in. So as 00:44:48.980 --> 00:44:51.139 far as we're aware, it's still personal reported. 00:44:51.440 --> 00:44:54.960 So I've made a tackle on the fire, started to 00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:56.619 get that under control, which was in a bedroom, 00:44:56.820 --> 00:44:59.239 fully involved. It was punching out the window 00:44:59.239 --> 00:45:01.480 out the back bedroom. And I sent the other guy 00:45:01.480 --> 00:45:03.780 to go and search because it's personal reported. 00:45:04.039 --> 00:45:06.960 So they're off searching. Soon as I dealt with 00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:10.119 the fire. I'm in the kitchen having a search 00:45:10.119 --> 00:45:12.519 and I was probably about, it felt like about 00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:14.340 a metre off the floor with the amount of rubbish 00:45:14.340 --> 00:45:17.579 and everything that was in there. As we're walking 00:45:17.579 --> 00:45:19.300 around, I've then radioed and said, look, we're 00:45:19.300 --> 00:45:20.699 going to need another crew in here. The place 00:45:20.699 --> 00:45:23.079 is so heavily hoarded. We're not going to be 00:45:23.079 --> 00:45:24.659 able to do a forest search unless we get another 00:45:24.659 --> 00:45:27.960 crew to back us up. As I've ventilated the living 00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:29.780 room, I've come back round, found the bathroom 00:45:29.780 --> 00:45:36.079 and a guy sat on a plasterer's bucket full of 00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:40.420 shit. sat on it naked there's a toilet overflowing 00:45:40.420 --> 00:45:45.099 with human shit there's a bath full of piss and 00:45:45.099 --> 00:45:51.380 shit and he's he's died on the toilet so I've 00:45:51.380 --> 00:45:53.719 radioed down quite clearly he's been dead for 00:45:53.719 --> 00:45:57.079 a while way before the fire because as you know 00:45:57.079 --> 00:45:59.320 as you touch him the whole of his body's moving 00:45:59.320 --> 00:46:01.960 he's rigid so he'd been dead for quite some time 00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:04.860 and the fire had obviously started from whatever 00:46:04.860 --> 00:46:07.250 happened in the bedroom But I'll never forget 00:46:07.250 --> 00:46:10.010 that one. One, because of the scenario and how 00:46:10.010 --> 00:46:12.989 bad. It was a registered flat to the Salvation 00:46:12.989 --> 00:46:16.269 Army. And this guy was homeless. And he must 00:46:16.269 --> 00:46:18.210 have just missed the loop. So that was awful. 00:46:18.909 --> 00:46:21.429 But on top of that, I can remember our cultural 00:46:21.429 --> 00:46:24.309 review had just come out in the brigade. So we 00:46:24.309 --> 00:46:26.550 were getting hammered in the press. And I can 00:46:26.550 --> 00:46:28.889 remember an officer saying to me, why don't you 00:46:28.889 --> 00:46:33.849 bring him out? I was like, I beg your pardon. 00:46:33.909 --> 00:46:35.070 He said, why didn't you bring him out? How did 00:46:35.070 --> 00:46:38.110 you know he was dead? I said, look, between us, 00:46:38.190 --> 00:46:40.030 the guys that were up there, the amount of time 00:46:40.030 --> 00:46:43.710 I'd served and my experiences, I took my gloves 00:46:43.710 --> 00:46:46.349 off. I had his head. I was looking. I was fit. 00:46:46.469 --> 00:46:49.730 I was like, boss, he's gone. He said, well, you're 00:46:49.730 --> 00:46:51.090 going to get asked a question on the back of 00:46:51.090 --> 00:46:52.929 the cultural review. Did you leave him in there 00:46:52.929 --> 00:46:54.730 because of his authenticity? I said, don't ask 00:46:54.730 --> 00:46:57.090 me that question again. I said, if you ask me 00:46:57.090 --> 00:46:58.590 that question again, I'll walk off this fire 00:46:58.590 --> 00:47:01.659 ground. I said, you won't see me again. I said, 00:47:01.699 --> 00:47:03.559 you have no idea the type of person I am or anything 00:47:03.559 --> 00:47:05.380 about me. How dare you ask him questions? He 00:47:05.380 --> 00:47:07.179 goes, well, it's going to get asked. And then 00:47:07.179 --> 00:47:09.079 he goes, we don't play God. You don't decide 00:47:09.079 --> 00:47:11.119 whether you leave a body behind. And that really 00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:13.900 messed me up for a number of months. That thought 00:47:13.900 --> 00:47:16.920 process going through my head, you know, why 00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:19.219 did you leave him? We don't play God. I'm like, 00:47:19.380 --> 00:47:21.400 he was clearly, he was clearly. But then that 00:47:21.400 --> 00:47:23.659 makes you double check constantly then about 00:47:23.659 --> 00:47:25.659 what happened. Off the back of that, there's 00:47:25.659 --> 00:47:28.739 been a change to policy that we leave no bodies 00:47:28.739 --> 00:47:31.739 and no bodies in situ anymore. you know unless 00:47:31.739 --> 00:47:35.340 they're going to become overcome by fire so yeah 00:47:35.340 --> 00:47:37.500 that was that was quite that was quite messy 00:47:37.500 --> 00:47:42.340 but and unfortunately your dark humor and how 00:47:42.340 --> 00:47:44.480 you get through it one of the guys actually did 00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:46.260 all the calculations to see how long it would 00:47:46.260 --> 00:47:51.230 have taken him to fill up the bath some high 00:47:51.230 --> 00:47:54.369 level algebra right there oh my god yeah i was 00:47:54.369 --> 00:47:56.309 like how did you do it so you take a measurement 00:47:56.309 --> 00:47:58.389 and i'll go back to training school when we're 00:47:58.389 --> 00:48:00.530 trying to figure out what walk we had in a bloody 00:48:00.530 --> 00:48:04.250 lake to to supply but yeah so that that was pretty 00:48:04.250 --> 00:48:06.070 that was pretty horrific but it was just seeing 00:48:06.070 --> 00:48:09.409 kind of the hard thing with that was just seeing 00:48:09.409 --> 00:48:12.110 how people get missed Mental health is such a 00:48:12.110 --> 00:48:14.010 huge thing. And in London, there's so many people 00:48:14.010 --> 00:48:15.949 which aren't getting the support or are flying 00:48:15.949 --> 00:48:17.969 under that mental health radar, aren't registered. 00:48:18.389 --> 00:48:20.449 And especially somebody in that position that's 00:48:20.449 --> 00:48:23.389 so vulnerable, living in them conditions. People 00:48:23.389 --> 00:48:25.670 weren't coming to check on him. People weren't 00:48:25.670 --> 00:48:30.030 coming to see him. And hoarding itself is a mental 00:48:30.030 --> 00:48:32.550 health, a tiling of mental health issues. And 00:48:32.550 --> 00:48:34.530 why was this guy not supported? So that was really 00:48:34.530 --> 00:48:37.110 difficult, the conversations coming off the back 00:48:37.110 --> 00:48:41.619 of that. But we've had some, I mean, also I've 00:48:41.619 --> 00:48:44.539 had some fantastic incidents where we've had 00:48:44.539 --> 00:48:48.659 some really, really good outcomes. I got accommodation 00:48:48.659 --> 00:48:53.559 in my last brigade in Bucks. We are very different 00:48:53.559 --> 00:48:55.820 to London, very different because it's smaller. 00:48:55.920 --> 00:48:58.539 I think the firefighters and the level of what 00:48:58.539 --> 00:49:00.340 we do in the smaller brigades, I think we turn 00:49:00.340 --> 00:49:03.280 out better firefighters. Unfortunately, one of 00:49:03.280 --> 00:49:07.309 London's... One of London's strengths is also 00:49:07.309 --> 00:49:08.869 one of their weaknesses, and that's the amount 00:49:08.869 --> 00:49:11.349 of firefighters that we have. So to get to a 00:49:11.349 --> 00:49:13.349 level on that cascade of training, things take 00:49:13.349 --> 00:49:19.269 so long to do and implement. So we were really, 00:49:19.369 --> 00:49:23.250 really good at a lot of things in Bucks. You 00:49:23.250 --> 00:49:25.429 know, we were water rescue trained. We were line 00:49:25.429 --> 00:49:31.230 rescue trained. We had chemical suits, everything 00:49:31.230 --> 00:49:33.889 we'd have on our station. We had all the upgraded... 00:49:35.149 --> 00:49:36.969 RTC equipment and everything like that. Whereas 00:49:36.969 --> 00:49:39.630 in London, you've got rescue units specifically 00:49:39.630 --> 00:49:42.869 for them jobs. So this one particular incident, 00:49:43.010 --> 00:49:44.469 we were sitting down, having a cup of coffee 00:49:44.469 --> 00:49:46.869 in the morning, bells go down, car in canal. 00:49:48.210 --> 00:49:51.690 So I was driving, I was driving this day. So 00:49:51.690 --> 00:49:53.489 we got the guys, so we used to take, depending 00:49:53.489 --> 00:49:55.630 on the job, we'd take, obviously, we'd take the 00:49:55.630 --> 00:49:57.210 chemical suits off the back and they'd put the 00:49:57.210 --> 00:49:59.340 dry suits on and they'd be rigging. on route 00:49:59.340 --> 00:50:01.639 and now you know what dry suits like it's an 00:50:01.639 --> 00:50:03.199 absolute nightmare you know back of the truck 00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:06.440 i'm driving they're trying to get fitted up turn 00:50:06.440 --> 00:50:08.699 up on scene and there's a car in the middle of 00:50:08.699 --> 00:50:11.199 the canal just bobbing around so this old guy 00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:13.840 these morning routine he'd go to the coffee shop 00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:15.800 just at the bottom of the canal would drive up 00:50:15.800 --> 00:50:18.400 and he'd park up at the canal and he'd put his 00:50:18.400 --> 00:50:20.619 handbrake on and he'd drink his coffee watching 00:50:20.619 --> 00:50:22.980 the canal barges go past just drinking his coffee 00:50:22.980 --> 00:50:27.099 and he was he's a disabled gentleman Somehow, 00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:29.380 he's kicked the car into gear and he's just gone 00:50:29.380 --> 00:50:31.139 boop, dropped off the edge and started bobbing 00:50:31.139 --> 00:50:34.199 around in the water. So we get there, we're like, 00:50:34.340 --> 00:50:36.420 right, you all right, sir? Everything cool? Yeah, 00:50:36.460 --> 00:50:37.699 yeah, I'm all right, I'm all right. Just hold 00:50:37.699 --> 00:50:39.780 on a minute. Guys are still getting ready, trying 00:50:39.780 --> 00:50:42.179 to get their head through that bloody dry suit, 00:50:42.260 --> 00:50:44.639 trying to zip it up. And we've got, there's two 00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:46.360 members of public on the opposite side of the 00:50:46.360 --> 00:50:49.219 canal. So we're sat there, waiting, waiting. 00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:51.460 And you know in them moments, it feels like it's 00:50:51.460 --> 00:50:53.420 taking forever, doesn't it, for something to 00:50:53.420 --> 00:50:56.500 happen. And then all of a sudden, The car starts 00:50:56.500 --> 00:50:59.400 to go, starts dipping down like it does in the 00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:02.500 movies. And the roof starts dipping under the 00:51:02.500 --> 00:51:04.239 water. So it's starting to go and I'm flipping 00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:06.780 out on my governance. So I don't know whether 00:51:06.780 --> 00:51:10.300 you do a similar sort of thing in the States 00:51:10.300 --> 00:51:12.139 where you have to declare ops discretion. So 00:51:12.139 --> 00:51:14.760 when we're going outside of policy to save all 00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:18.639 life or to have a dramatic effect on whatever's 00:51:18.639 --> 00:51:23.150 occurring. My governor at the time was a guy 00:51:23.150 --> 00:51:25.550 called John Carson. He was my mentor when I joined 00:51:25.550 --> 00:51:29.530 the fire brigade. Fantastic human, retired now, 00:51:29.690 --> 00:51:32.329 still talk. And he's like, you good, Jase? I 00:51:32.329 --> 00:51:33.730 was like, yeah. He goes, you're going in? I went, 00:51:33.730 --> 00:51:36.670 yeah, yeah, yeah, I am. So jumped in the canal, 00:51:37.010 --> 00:51:40.329 swam across, got to the car. Just as it's dipping 00:51:40.329 --> 00:51:42.369 under the water and that pressure changed, boom, 00:51:42.449 --> 00:51:44.349 managed to pull him out and then swim to the 00:51:44.349 --> 00:51:47.780 side. You know, and that was, that was... probably 00:51:47.780 --> 00:51:51.519 quite a thrilling sort of incident for us. And 00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:53.820 that was, I've got the accommodation up on the 00:51:53.820 --> 00:51:57.019 back wall there for that. And what ethnicity 00:51:57.019 --> 00:52:01.900 was he and did that come into play? Yeah, he 00:52:01.900 --> 00:52:06.199 was an old bloke. Yeah, I know, it's terrible, 00:52:06.340 --> 00:52:10.119 right? But, yeah, that was fantastic. So that 00:52:10.119 --> 00:52:13.599 was really, really cool. Really cool. You know, 00:52:13.639 --> 00:52:15.400 you feel like the shit you get back. It's that 00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:17.099 whole tea of medals when you get back to the 00:52:17.099 --> 00:52:19.780 station. A cup of tea, pats on the back. You 00:52:19.780 --> 00:52:22.420 know, the assistant chief, the ACO, Jason Thirlwall 00:52:22.420 --> 00:52:24.079 at the time, comes down, shakes everyone's hand. 00:52:24.179 --> 00:52:25.780 Well done, James. You've done a cracking job 00:52:25.780 --> 00:52:28.719 under really difficult conditions using ops discretion. 00:52:29.340 --> 00:52:32.599 And then you're just like that, aren't you? You're 00:52:32.599 --> 00:52:35.179 taking it all in. But yeah, that was pretty epic. 00:52:35.380 --> 00:52:38.420 But going back to John Carson, who was in charge, 00:52:38.659 --> 00:52:41.000 he was a subbo at the time. He was my mentor 00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:43.239 when I first joined the brigade. And I had my 00:52:43.239 --> 00:52:46.239 first ever BA wear with him. And I'll never forget 00:52:46.239 --> 00:52:49.239 it because it was the coolest fucking thing in 00:52:49.239 --> 00:52:53.019 the world. It was a YMCA. I remember second floor, 00:52:53.179 --> 00:52:57.070 flat fire. right none of this none of these nozzles 00:52:57.070 --> 00:52:59.550 controllable nozzles you can cone up cone down 00:52:59.550 --> 00:53:02.789 flow rates it was a what we call an old AWG branch 00:53:02.789 --> 00:53:05.210 just a straight jet out of it you know blast 00:53:05.210 --> 00:53:08.030 off your feet if you hear We're on the landing. 00:53:08.190 --> 00:53:09.989 And I can remember Brent by the front door. And 00:53:09.989 --> 00:53:11.550 he's like, you ready? I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, 00:53:11.590 --> 00:53:14.489 I'm ready. So the door goes in. We go in. And 00:53:14.489 --> 00:53:16.349 he gives me the branch straight away. He's going, 00:53:16.389 --> 00:53:18.429 don't do anything. Don't blast it down the road. 00:53:18.570 --> 00:53:21.090 Just lay. Just wait. Slow down. And we've walked 00:53:21.090 --> 00:53:23.969 in. And it's his kitchen's going. It's rolling 00:53:23.969 --> 00:53:27.110 over like that. And we're sat on this sofa in 00:53:27.110 --> 00:53:29.710 this lounge in this YMCA. And he's going, watch 00:53:29.710 --> 00:53:32.710 it. Watch it. Look how interesting it is. Listen 00:53:32.710 --> 00:53:35.309 to it. Look what it's doing. He said, now give 00:53:35.309 --> 00:53:37.809 it a bit of water. And I will never forget that. 00:53:37.889 --> 00:53:40.150 That was the best BA I've ever had in my life. 00:53:40.210 --> 00:53:42.929 I was sitting there shitting myself. And he's 00:53:42.929 --> 00:53:44.230 going, don't put any water on it. Don't put any 00:53:44.230 --> 00:53:46.949 water on it. And I'm like, what? Yeah, it was 00:53:46.949 --> 00:53:51.170 mega. So yeah, that's, but you know, lots of 00:53:51.170 --> 00:53:53.670 stories, lots of, more often than not, unfortunately, 00:53:53.889 --> 00:53:58.260 they're not the greatest outcomes. um in this 00:53:58.260 --> 00:54:00.460 job you know i think that's one of the hardest 00:54:00.460 --> 00:54:03.239 things that we deal with but we've obviously 00:54:03.239 --> 00:54:05.780 we're there to rescue someone and we pass them 00:54:05.780 --> 00:54:07.579 on to the ambulance service and sometimes we 00:54:07.579 --> 00:54:09.300 don't get to hear the end result what happened 00:54:09.300 --> 00:54:11.800 i mean whether that would help closure wise sometimes 00:54:11.800 --> 00:54:16.019 quite possibly um but yeah oh god we've had some 00:54:16.019 --> 00:54:18.460 some incidents over the years james one last 00:54:18.460 --> 00:54:23.980 one um we turned up to a house fire A lady had 00:54:23.980 --> 00:54:26.219 put around a mental health issue. She put a duck 00:54:26.219 --> 00:54:29.420 duvet down around her neck, carried herself in 00:54:29.420 --> 00:54:32.460 paraffin petrol and set herself on fire. And 00:54:32.460 --> 00:54:35.920 we turned up, gone in through the door. She's 00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:38.840 in the hallway, rapid, really hot, burning, burning 00:54:38.840 --> 00:54:40.699 all her clothes off of her body, the poor thing. 00:54:41.340 --> 00:54:43.079 Everyone's banging around and I'm just like, 00:54:43.199 --> 00:54:46.500 rest, just rest, stop. I mean, she had 100 % 00:54:46.500 --> 00:54:49.179 full fitness burns to her arms. I can remember 00:54:49.179 --> 00:54:52.239 it vividly. And I'm like, look. I think she's 00:54:52.239 --> 00:54:55.159 probably gone. I don't think, it was like a movie 00:54:55.159 --> 00:54:57.360 scene. It was all in slow motion. And I'm like, 00:54:57.460 --> 00:54:59.199 look, look, just stop. I don't think we're going 00:54:59.199 --> 00:55:00.940 to need to move her. Don't think we're going 00:55:00.940 --> 00:55:03.420 to need to move her. So I've knelt down, put 00:55:03.420 --> 00:55:05.719 my, and my torch, just my torch has gone down 00:55:05.719 --> 00:55:08.179 and shined. Her eyes have gone, and she's gone, 00:55:08.300 --> 00:55:12.599 started to gasp. I was like, oh shit, I've got 00:55:12.599 --> 00:55:15.599 to do something now. And what do I do? So I'm 00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:17.780 trying to grab her arms. I can't grab her arms. 00:55:17.820 --> 00:55:19.179 I had a deep glove that I ought to pull her arms 00:55:19.179 --> 00:55:21.719 off. So I'm trying to squeeze under her head 00:55:21.719 --> 00:55:25.380 and she's stuck to the carpet. So I pull around, 00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:27.500 come around to the front. I'm getting one of 00:55:27.500 --> 00:55:29.420 the guys trying to get her back up off the carpet. 00:55:29.800 --> 00:55:32.639 And I've like double arm wrapped her legs and 00:55:32.639 --> 00:55:35.900 I'm pulling, pulling. And I felt pop. My hammy 00:55:35.900 --> 00:55:41.119 goes as I pull her off the carpet, get her outside. 00:55:41.239 --> 00:55:44.320 The guys get straight to work with her, get straight 00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:48.070 on her, breathe in. And the maddest thing with 00:55:48.070 --> 00:55:50.989 this was Hems, so our emergency helicopter, our 00:55:50.989 --> 00:55:53.309 trauma doctors turn up in a helicopter or a car, 00:55:53.409 --> 00:55:56.690 so they've turned up on scene. They take over, 00:55:56.789 --> 00:55:58.949 listening to them, watching what they do. It's 00:55:58.949 --> 00:56:01.949 what you guys do is incredible. I'm still in 00:56:01.949 --> 00:56:03.889 awe sometimes when I see you doing stuff on the 00:56:03.889 --> 00:56:08.610 side of the road. It blows my mind. And Hems 00:56:08.610 --> 00:56:10.489 doctor pulls us all round at the end. Once she's 00:56:10.489 --> 00:56:14.800 off, gone. It's like, guys, she's got full fitness 00:56:14.800 --> 00:56:18.699 burns to her arms, most of her body. If she doesn't 00:56:18.699 --> 00:56:21.159 die tonight, she will be gone in a few days from 00:56:21.159 --> 00:56:23.559 massive infection from the burn areas on her 00:56:23.559 --> 00:56:27.119 body. About two months later, three months later, 00:56:27.179 --> 00:56:30.179 we get a phone call from her carer asking if 00:56:30.179 --> 00:56:32.000 her mobile phone, if we took her mobile phone 00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:34.539 out of the house so she was still alive. They 00:56:34.539 --> 00:56:36.400 amputated both of her arms and one of her legs. 00:56:36.980 --> 00:56:40.489 And we were like, what the fuck? And that is 00:56:40.489 --> 00:56:44.429 beyond me still to this day. I've seen people 00:56:44.429 --> 00:56:47.929 and then to see someone that severely burnt and 00:56:47.929 --> 00:56:50.050 yet still survive, it's just mind -boggling, 00:56:50.170 --> 00:56:52.730 you know, mind -boggling. But yeah, that was 00:56:52.730 --> 00:56:57.550 a crazy one. I had a guy, my two departments 00:56:57.550 --> 00:57:01.050 ago, and it was a house fire. We were on the 00:57:01.050 --> 00:57:03.690 rescue, which is like the fire slash EMS unit. 00:57:04.610 --> 00:57:06.949 And as we're heading towards the fire, bunkered 00:57:06.949 --> 00:57:09.539 up, ready to, you know. do the actual fire operation 00:57:09.539 --> 00:57:12.079 side, the medic that was in that first queue, 00:57:12.159 --> 00:57:16.099 their area, is crying out for a second ambulance, 00:57:16.159 --> 00:57:19.500 a second rescue. They had a guy come out of the 00:57:19.500 --> 00:57:23.139 house fully on fire. He's leaning up against 00:57:23.139 --> 00:57:26.980 the fence. I think the neighbors had a hose, 00:57:27.039 --> 00:57:29.699 so they hosed him down. So we get there. We got 00:57:29.699 --> 00:57:32.760 this guy, again, full thickness burns, head to 00:57:32.760 --> 00:57:34.460 toe. The only thing that wasn't burnt on him 00:57:34.460 --> 00:57:37.659 were the soles of his feet. And so we end up, 00:57:37.659 --> 00:57:39.619 you know, I jump over the fence. We do, you know, 00:57:39.619 --> 00:57:41.460 the backboard standing takedown, get him over 00:57:41.460 --> 00:57:44.239 the other side. And I wrote about this in my 00:57:44.239 --> 00:57:46.760 first book. I'm literally at the head getting 00:57:46.760 --> 00:57:49.940 ready to intubate him and almost like reflexively 00:57:49.940 --> 00:57:53.260 because we do so many EMS calls. My partner, 00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:55.940 who is the original medic, I jumped into his 00:57:55.940 --> 00:57:58.539 rig. He'd ask the guy, sir, what's your name? 00:57:58.659 --> 00:58:01.239 Now, this guy, you know. without being too graphic, 00:58:01.320 --> 00:58:06.380 no nose, no eyes, fingers, everything is just 00:58:06.380 --> 00:58:10.280 burnt off. And he answers as clearly as you and 00:58:10.280 --> 00:58:12.639 I are speaking today. And I'm literally about 00:58:12.639 --> 00:58:14.460 to intubate him. And I'm like, well, shit, I 00:58:14.460 --> 00:58:17.699 guess I'm not intubating him now. So we end up 00:58:17.699 --> 00:58:20.380 putting an O2 mask on him, just what we call 00:58:20.380 --> 00:58:22.260 a normal breather, because he's talking to us. 00:58:22.340 --> 00:58:26.280 I mean, he's conscious. It's insane. So I work 00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:27.840 on the burns, which is for us just literally 00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:30.800 basically putting a dry burn sheet on. The fire 00:58:30.800 --> 00:58:33.099 is literally five minutes from the hospital. 00:58:33.139 --> 00:58:35.059 So before we know it, we're already there. We 00:58:35.059 --> 00:58:39.159 wheel this guy in with a mask on his face, completely 00:58:39.159 --> 00:58:42.099 burnt to a crisp. So the ER looking at us like, 00:58:42.219 --> 00:58:44.460 what in the fuck are you doing? And we're like, 00:58:44.579 --> 00:58:46.800 wait, just listen. And we asked him a question 00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:49.639 and he talks. And an hour later, he was dead. 00:58:50.340 --> 00:58:54.059 But what was just insane is... I'm not a big 00:58:54.059 --> 00:58:56.519 religious person or anything. I'm not a big ghost 00:58:56.519 --> 00:58:59.659 hunter person. But I have never seen a clearer 00:58:59.659 --> 00:59:02.840 example of a spirit not knowing that the body 00:59:02.840 --> 00:59:05.559 was dead. Because anatomically, his tongue was 00:59:05.559 --> 00:59:07.780 gone. I mean, there is no way that his airway 00:59:07.780 --> 00:59:10.159 or his vocal cords should have been intact. But 00:59:10.159 --> 00:59:12.199 he was speaking as clearly as you and I now. 00:59:12.400 --> 00:59:15.800 So it's another comparative burn story. insane 00:59:15.800 --> 00:59:18.380 but yeah i mean i'm so glad that your woman you 00:59:18.380 --> 00:59:20.539 know was able to recover and hopefully the duvet 00:59:20.539 --> 00:59:25.420 saved her you know from some of that it's insane 00:59:25.420 --> 00:59:28.679 isn't it but yeah um that was what you went to 00:59:28.679 --> 00:59:30.880 there where you were speaking to him i can remember 00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:33.380 kneeling there my ba sets off and i'm trying 00:59:33.380 --> 00:59:35.960 to help the paramedics are in and they're asking 00:59:35.960 --> 00:59:37.980 her to move her leg and she's moving her leg 00:59:37.980 --> 00:59:40.260 and she's listening she and it's she's responding 00:59:40.260 --> 00:59:44.940 i'm like why this does this is insane Absolutely. 00:59:44.940 --> 00:59:47.739 The human body is an incredible, incredible piece 00:59:47.739 --> 00:59:50.900 of equipment. Absolutely. I want to circle around 00:59:50.900 --> 00:59:53.440 to something you said before, because one of 00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:55.280 the things that we don't talk about a lot, obviously, 00:59:55.300 --> 00:59:57.079 the stories you've just told people like, oh, 00:59:57.079 --> 00:59:58.460 well, you know, that would be challenging to 00:59:58.460 --> 01:00:00.599 your mental health. But there are so many other 01:00:00.599 --> 01:00:02.539 elements. Sleep deprivation, I harp on all the 01:00:02.539 --> 01:00:05.780 time. But, you know, the organizational stress 01:00:05.780 --> 01:00:09.699 and or betrayal piece is a big part of this conversation 01:00:09.699 --> 01:00:11.960 and really what a lot of people struggle with. 01:00:12.889 --> 01:00:16.449 Talk to me about what a cultural review is and 01:00:16.449 --> 01:00:19.550 then what impact did that conversation about 01:00:19.550 --> 01:00:22.849 leaving that gentleman in the house have on you 01:00:22.849 --> 01:00:26.610 personally? Well, the cultural review come off 01:00:26.610 --> 01:00:30.010 the back of the government implementing it. Once 01:00:30.010 --> 01:00:34.789 we have the Her Majesty's come out at the time, 01:00:34.829 --> 01:00:37.070 they come out and they inspect the fire brigade 01:00:37.070 --> 01:00:40.730 and they see that we had lots of failings. Off 01:00:40.730 --> 01:00:43.369 the back of that, the fire brigade then did their 01:00:43.369 --> 01:00:45.429 independent review, which they got somebody to 01:00:45.429 --> 01:00:49.250 come in. And his findings was there was a systemic 01:00:49.250 --> 01:00:53.389 racial abuse, systemic racial abuse, misogyny, 01:00:53.389 --> 01:00:57.570 all sorts of stuff. But all the stories and everything 01:00:57.570 --> 01:01:03.869 that he'd investigated was from many, many years 01:01:03.869 --> 01:01:05.889 ago. And a lot of it was from senior management 01:01:05.889 --> 01:01:07.670 in that office environment, the firefighters. 01:01:08.519 --> 01:01:11.159 Pretty much it was, look, I'm not saying, I'm 01:01:11.159 --> 01:01:14.599 100 % certain that people have been through things, 01:01:14.840 --> 01:01:18.039 you know, racism 100 % within the fire service. 01:01:18.320 --> 01:01:21.280 You know, I've seen it myself when I've been 01:01:21.280 --> 01:01:24.159 on duty, when I first started. Misogynistic people, 01:01:24.280 --> 01:01:27.579 I've seen it, you know. But that being released 01:01:27.579 --> 01:01:29.969 then to the public, it... We took a bit of a 01:01:29.969 --> 01:01:33.989 battering for a number of months. What that did 01:01:33.989 --> 01:01:35.610 for us and our relationship with the community 01:01:35.610 --> 01:01:38.510 and the people within the community, we were 01:01:38.510 --> 01:01:40.809 at points shutting down the fire stations because 01:01:40.809 --> 01:01:42.570 usually we have an open -door policy where we're 01:01:42.570 --> 01:01:45.429 on shift. The base of the doors are open. If 01:01:45.429 --> 01:01:47.010 anybody wants to come in, they can visit with 01:01:47.010 --> 01:01:48.550 their children, their family. We'll take them 01:01:48.550 --> 01:01:50.030 around the station, do all that kind of stuff. 01:01:50.230 --> 01:01:51.889 It got to a point where we were having to lock 01:01:51.889 --> 01:01:54.670 the fire stations down. we were getting some 01:01:54.670 --> 01:01:57.829 pretty significant abuse from the community members, 01:01:57.889 --> 01:01:59.489 and rightly so from the stories that were on 01:01:59.489 --> 01:02:04.130 there. But going back to that moment when I was 01:02:04.130 --> 01:02:06.750 asked that question, that hit hard. That really 01:02:06.750 --> 01:02:10.849 did hit hard at that moment in time because it's 01:02:10.849 --> 01:02:12.869 irrelevant. Essentially, what we're going to 01:02:12.869 --> 01:02:15.889 do is rescue somebody. Anything else is irrelevant. 01:02:16.949 --> 01:02:20.289 Our sole goal, our sole purpose is to be in that 01:02:20.289 --> 01:02:22.289 environment, to be there to try and save somebody's 01:02:22.289 --> 01:02:27.599 life. And to be told you've made a conscious, 01:02:27.760 --> 01:02:29.940 potentially a conscious decision to leave somebody 01:02:29.940 --> 01:02:32.300 because of their authenticity or that you've 01:02:32.300 --> 01:02:35.360 played God, it was really difficult to deal with 01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:36.800 for a number of months. I mean, and it still 01:02:36.800 --> 01:02:39.460 grates me now. I wish I had the opportunity to 01:02:39.460 --> 01:02:43.329 speak to that officer. we london being so vast 01:02:43.329 --> 01:02:45.449 so they just dissipate into the the numbers that 01:02:45.449 --> 01:02:47.489 are there you know but yeah hugely impactful 01:02:47.489 --> 01:02:50.090 the whole cultural view everything had a huge 01:02:50.090 --> 01:02:52.130 impact and we're coming out the other side now 01:02:52.130 --> 01:02:54.090 we've done the right things as a brigade that 01:02:54.090 --> 01:02:57.710 implemented the right things to improve the investigations 01:02:57.710 --> 01:03:00.309 have taken place you know everything seems to 01:03:00.309 --> 01:03:02.730 be on the right path now we've got our relationships 01:03:02.730 --> 01:03:05.230 back with the community that's for sure kind 01:03:05.230 --> 01:03:08.679 of what's the day's is what's the day's news 01:03:08.679 --> 01:03:11.239 is soon tomorrow yesterday's you know it goes 01:03:11.239 --> 01:03:13.800 pretty quick um but it was a pretty rough time 01:03:13.800 --> 01:03:18.599 for the brigade definitely definitely i don't 01:03:18.599 --> 01:03:22.639 think there's a profession that demonstrates 01:03:22.639 --> 01:03:27.880 how race gender sexual orientation matters less 01:03:27.880 --> 01:03:30.079 than the fire service and the reason i say that 01:03:30.079 --> 01:03:32.860 when we're in a structure fire and we're in our 01:03:32.860 --> 01:03:35.559 bunker gear You can't tell who the black one 01:03:35.559 --> 01:03:37.539 is or the straight one or the gay one or the, 01:03:37.539 --> 01:03:40.519 you know, the woman. But you can tell who the 01:03:40.519 --> 01:03:42.579 shit one is and who the good one is, who the 01:03:42.579 --> 01:03:44.860 fit one is and who the fat one is. You know what 01:03:44.860 --> 01:03:46.940 I mean? So I've always said the only prejudice 01:03:46.940 --> 01:03:49.559 in the fire service is those who can and those 01:03:49.559 --> 01:03:51.440 who can't. And that needs to be there. That's 01:03:51.440 --> 01:03:54.260 a legitimate prejudice. But the thought that 01:03:54.260 --> 01:03:57.119 you're going to make entry to a fire, you know. 01:03:57.449 --> 01:03:59.329 Fight your way to the front door, you know, break 01:03:59.329 --> 01:04:00.969 your way open through the front door, fight your 01:04:00.969 --> 01:04:02.829 way through all kinds of human shit to get to 01:04:02.829 --> 01:04:04.789 someone and then be like, oh, turn around. It's 01:04:04.789 --> 01:04:07.989 a black bloke. You know, we're leaving. It's 01:04:07.989 --> 01:04:10.630 insane. The same way as an American cop pulls 01:04:10.630 --> 01:04:12.969 over a car that's got all tinted windows, which 01:04:12.969 --> 01:04:15.989 is everyone here. And then, you know, oh, it's 01:04:15.989 --> 01:04:17.630 because it was you couldn't even see through 01:04:17.630 --> 01:04:19.070 the window. What are you talking about? You've 01:04:19.070 --> 01:04:22.309 got no idea who that person was. And that that 01:04:22.309 --> 01:04:27.230 kind of messaging, I think, is so. irresponsible 01:04:27.230 --> 01:04:30.409 because are there racists are there misogynists 01:04:30.409 --> 01:04:33.309 are there all the things yes as there are carpenters 01:04:33.309 --> 01:04:35.210 and plumbers and shopkeepers and bankers and 01:04:35.210 --> 01:04:38.469 accountants but is it rampant through police 01:04:38.469 --> 01:04:41.449 fire i mean from all the places that i've ever 01:04:41.449 --> 01:04:45.630 been exposed to the answer is no 100 yeah 100 01:04:45.630 --> 01:04:49.989 i totally agree with you that um it's just it 01:04:49.989 --> 01:04:53.869 it's just the question that he felt he had to 01:04:53.869 --> 01:04:57.079 ask and i said you don't What even gives you 01:04:57.079 --> 01:04:59.699 the, you know, where in your mind do you think 01:04:59.699 --> 01:05:01.699 that's even an acceptable question to ask at 01:05:01.699 --> 01:05:03.579 this moment in time? I was literally covered 01:05:03.579 --> 01:05:05.579 in human shit from the searching because it had 01:05:05.579 --> 01:05:07.860 been defecating around the whole of the house. 01:05:08.849 --> 01:05:11.809 So we've been decontaminated. It's at like 3 01:05:11.809 --> 01:05:13.349 o 'clock in the morning, James. I'm stood there 01:05:13.349 --> 01:05:17.449 in my uniform, pairing my fire boots because 01:05:17.449 --> 01:05:19.909 our decontamination policies and stuff are probably, 01:05:19.969 --> 01:05:21.969 I think, slightly different to your guys. So 01:05:21.969 --> 01:05:24.829 our kit and everything goes straight away, our 01:05:24.829 --> 01:05:26.510 bunker kit, if you like, our fire kit's gone. 01:05:26.650 --> 01:05:29.750 So we're stood there getting debriefed. I'm soaking 01:05:29.750 --> 01:05:33.230 wet through from head to toe from the sweat from 01:05:33.230 --> 01:05:35.570 working so hard. And then to be asked that question, 01:05:35.710 --> 01:05:40.969 it's like, wow. Wow. Speaking of mixed messages, 01:05:41.090 --> 01:05:45.210 I have heard a chief in two departments ago say 01:05:45.210 --> 01:05:48.710 to an orientation class, and we were talking 01:05:48.710 --> 01:05:50.510 about, I forget even why it came up, but he was 01:05:50.510 --> 01:05:53.150 saying in the UK, the firefighters don't go interior. 01:05:54.369 --> 01:05:56.690 And basically the whole thing was how heroic 01:05:56.690 --> 01:05:58.750 we are as American firefighters, because we go 01:05:58.750 --> 01:06:00.929 in and in Europe, they don't go in. I'm going 01:06:00.929 --> 01:06:02.530 to give you the microphone if you want to correct 01:06:02.530 --> 01:06:06.380 that statement at all. Well, it's the risk versus 01:06:06.380 --> 01:06:11.599 benefit, right? We get that. Look, we have become 01:06:11.599 --> 01:06:14.480 risk averse. We have gone. From when I joined, 01:06:14.559 --> 01:06:17.179 James, to this moment in time, the brigade has 01:06:17.179 --> 01:06:21.820 changed dramatically, drastically in equipment, 01:06:22.260 --> 01:06:25.500 firefighting techniques, the equipment that we've 01:06:25.500 --> 01:06:28.739 got. Everything's changed, has had an impact. 01:06:30.539 --> 01:06:32.780 When I first joined, we'd be going into a derelict 01:06:32.780 --> 01:06:34.800 structure fire. We would. We'd go in. We'd go 01:06:34.800 --> 01:06:36.440 through the front door. We'd be straight in now. 01:06:36.500 --> 01:06:40.059 We'd go and do what we were taught to do. Now, 01:06:40.119 --> 01:06:43.079 very, very different. It is very different. The 01:06:43.079 --> 01:06:46.159 larger complex, I say complex, but warehouse, 01:06:46.420 --> 01:06:49.199 you know, kind of commercial buildings, if it's 01:06:49.199 --> 01:06:51.039 not personally reported, that risk versus benefit. 01:06:52.239 --> 01:06:54.659 that risk versus benefit you know to save savable 01:06:54.659 --> 01:06:56.559 life or what we frame people in there for to 01:06:56.559 --> 01:06:58.880 essentially what's a derelict property we will 01:06:58.880 --> 01:07:01.500 hand back we will hand back definitely for sure 01:07:01.500 --> 01:07:03.519 but there are moments there's still moments when 01:07:03.519 --> 01:07:06.059 if we can save that building you know if it's 01:07:06.059 --> 01:07:09.059 a if it's a working establishment a working commercial 01:07:09.059 --> 01:07:11.880 building we will put we will put people in we 01:07:11.880 --> 01:07:14.840 will put people in to to get in there but the 01:07:14.840 --> 01:07:16.599 structures and everything is so different to 01:07:16.599 --> 01:07:19.119 you guys we spoke about it briefly before i believe 01:07:19.119 --> 01:07:22.510 that um you know a lot of ours are brick built 01:07:22.510 --> 01:07:26.429 sandwich panels they go on about but it loses 01:07:26.429 --> 01:07:28.769 its integrity at certain degrees and temperature 01:07:28.769 --> 01:07:31.650 still you know all that kind of stuff but we 01:07:31.650 --> 01:07:34.789 do go we do get in there we do get messy i mean 01:07:34.789 --> 01:07:37.250 just look at grenfell for example like super 01:07:37.250 --> 01:07:39.670 dangerous fire and you had you know so many people 01:07:39.670 --> 01:07:42.150 making you know incredible rescues from like 01:07:42.150 --> 01:07:45.389 we said 20 plus stories up and we have the same 01:07:45.389 --> 01:07:48.539 thing like If you are going to an industrial 01:07:48.539 --> 01:07:51.519 complex and there's no report of anyone trapped, 01:07:51.739 --> 01:07:54.579 you don't need to send firefighters in to look 01:07:54.579 --> 01:07:56.400 for some mythical person that would be in the 01:07:56.400 --> 01:07:58.059 middle of a chemical warehouse at two in the 01:07:58.059 --> 01:08:01.059 morning when the security guard said there's 01:08:01.059 --> 01:08:03.760 no one in there. Conversely, like you said, I 01:08:03.760 --> 01:08:06.019 have been to apartment complexes that are boarded 01:08:06.019 --> 01:08:08.360 up and I've watched families pull the boards 01:08:08.360 --> 01:08:11.199 back, go in, you know, basically pseudo homeless 01:08:11.199 --> 01:08:13.380 families and then pull the boards. So there's 01:08:13.380 --> 01:08:16.939 that as well. but it's it's same here risk versus 01:08:16.939 --> 01:08:19.880 gain but there's there's almost like a narcissistic 01:08:19.880 --> 01:08:25.220 element to some you know uh firefighters ideas 01:08:25.220 --> 01:08:27.180 of what we're supposed to do that well there's 01:08:27.180 --> 01:08:28.979 always a chance you know that could be there 01:08:28.979 --> 01:08:30.560 you need to go into every single fire and that's 01:08:30.560 --> 01:08:32.680 bullshit that's how you get firefighters kill 01:08:32.680 --> 01:08:35.199 you know risk a lot to save a lot risk a little 01:08:35.199 --> 01:08:38.340 to save a little so the uk and the us are no 01:08:38.340 --> 01:08:41.500 different you've got the same mindset If you've 01:08:41.500 --> 01:08:44.239 got a tower block that's covered in petroleum 01:08:44.239 --> 01:08:47.739 products, that's, you know, I mean, just every 01:08:47.739 --> 01:08:50.140 single flat is being incinerated and you've still 01:08:50.140 --> 01:08:53.279 got firefighters, you know, making an interior 01:08:53.279 --> 01:08:55.659 push and trying to evacuate people and fighting 01:08:55.659 --> 01:08:58.859 fire. That's, you know, that's what you did. 01:08:58.939 --> 01:09:01.060 And I think that's what killed me when they started 01:09:01.060 --> 01:09:03.060 kind of dragging the fire service, the London 01:09:03.060 --> 01:09:05.760 Fire Brigade through the coals over that. But, 01:09:05.760 --> 01:09:07.880 you know, again, you know, you've got some surround 01:09:07.880 --> 01:09:11.000 and drowned incident. Why would you put some 01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:13.720 in? Or every single window has fire blowing out. 01:09:13.779 --> 01:09:16.100 Why would you crawl into that? No one in there 01:09:16.100 --> 01:09:19.859 is going to survive. So it kills me when we have 01:09:19.859 --> 01:09:22.199 this arrogance in the American Fire Service because 01:09:22.199 --> 01:09:24.380 we're all doing the same thing around the world 01:09:24.380 --> 01:09:27.239 and you learn from each other. But to think that 01:09:27.239 --> 01:09:30.000 you're better because of fairy tales that you're 01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:33.000 making up about other departments, every opportunity 01:09:33.000 --> 01:09:35.369 I get to debunk that. you know i'm gonna and 01:09:35.369 --> 01:09:38.329 for example how many people have fought a literal 01:09:38.329 --> 01:09:41.449 towering inferno i never have but there's many 01:09:41.449 --> 01:09:43.489 men and women in the london fire brigade that 01:09:43.489 --> 01:09:47.550 did and it's amazing yeah for sure so um when 01:09:47.550 --> 01:09:50.869 i joined london um i joined just after grenfell 01:09:50.869 --> 01:09:53.489 and the watch i joined had they were one of the 01:09:53.489 --> 01:09:58.569 early pumps onto that incident so just hear their 01:09:58.569 --> 01:10:02.140 stories and what they did on that night um to 01:10:02.140 --> 01:10:04.680 be completely honest is heroic to the lengths 01:10:04.680 --> 01:10:06.939 that some of them push and members of my watch 01:10:06.939 --> 01:10:09.880 what they did on that day is just outrageous 01:10:09.880 --> 01:10:12.399 you know the amount of work they did the stairwell 01:10:12.399 --> 01:10:14.460 was compromised straight away early on in the 01:10:14.460 --> 01:10:17.539 incident these guys were under air getting up 01:10:17.539 --> 01:10:19.859 to 18 20 stories and then bringing people down 01:10:19.859 --> 01:10:22.479 you know the place with the cladding was going 01:10:22.479 --> 01:10:25.880 that it was yeah it was just nothing short of 01:10:25.880 --> 01:10:30.460 absolute heroes you know um but then seeing the 01:10:30.460 --> 01:10:33.460 way that the inquest and inquiry was handled 01:10:33.460 --> 01:10:36.039 and pulling the brigade for it and it was a brigade's 01:10:36.039 --> 01:10:38.079 issue again that puts in a standpoint against 01:10:38.079 --> 01:10:41.000 the community that it was all our fault when 01:10:41.000 --> 01:10:43.699 essentially well there was failings there was 01:10:43.699 --> 01:10:45.180 failings that come off the back of the cultural 01:10:45.180 --> 01:10:46.779 review there were things that we needed to do 01:10:46.779 --> 01:10:49.399 better and that was understand breaching and 01:10:49.399 --> 01:10:52.739 compartmentation you know going to that go as 01:10:52.739 --> 01:10:55.739 soon as we can if that breaching compartmentation 01:10:55.739 --> 01:10:57.960 from upper floors goes further than we expect 01:10:57.960 --> 01:11:00.500 it to go then we should be getting looking at 01:11:00.500 --> 01:11:03.020 full evacuation i mean there's still uh solid 01:11:03.020 --> 01:11:04.979 to digress but there's still something like 130 01:11:04.979 --> 01:11:07.079 tower blocks in london with the same cladding 01:11:07.079 --> 01:11:09.359 on it so it's not a matter of if it's when it 01:11:09.359 --> 01:11:12.340 happens again you know uh what the government 01:11:12.340 --> 01:11:15.079 are doing is it's just taking too long it's just 01:11:15.079 --> 01:11:16.979 taking too long to sort these issues out but 01:11:16.979 --> 01:11:21.300 yeah well and again learning from these events 01:11:21.300 --> 01:11:23.420 look what happened in hong kong basically a version 01:11:23.420 --> 01:11:25.880 of they had plastic netting on scaffolding that 01:11:25.880 --> 01:11:27.619 did exactly the same thing and i think the death 01:11:27.619 --> 01:11:32.279 toll was what 140 150 people so you know it's 01:11:32.279 --> 01:11:35.079 it's if if we're arrogant and we look at other 01:11:35.079 --> 01:11:37.279 departments down our nose then we're not learning 01:11:37.279 --> 01:11:39.659 anything if we're humble i would hope that everyone 01:11:39.659 --> 01:11:41.979 in the us would go to you know look at grenfell 01:11:41.979 --> 01:11:43.970 and say all right what did you What did you do 01:11:43.970 --> 01:11:46.430 right? What did you feel like, you know, didn't 01:11:46.430 --> 01:11:48.050 work this time? And I think the big thing was 01:11:48.050 --> 01:11:49.949 shelter in place, wasn't it? And in a high rise, 01:11:50.050 --> 01:11:52.510 usually you would because it should be able to 01:11:52.510 --> 01:11:55.750 contain it. But you've got basically fire load 01:11:55.750 --> 01:11:58.550 strapped to the side of the building. That's 01:11:58.550 --> 01:12:00.649 a whole different conversation. So, you know, 01:12:00.649 --> 01:12:03.470 the tactics, if not then, the next time, like 01:12:03.470 --> 01:12:05.250 you said, have to be completely different. The 01:12:05.250 --> 01:12:07.130 moment you get a fire on that kind of structure, 01:12:07.310 --> 01:12:09.289 you've got to try and get everyone out right 01:12:09.289 --> 01:12:14.020 at the beginning. Yeah. Some of the stories you 01:12:14.020 --> 01:12:15.800 hear, essentially, they were going up to the 01:12:15.800 --> 01:12:17.859 upper floors and knocking on doors. And think, 01:12:17.939 --> 01:12:19.220 these guys have got to live with this. These 01:12:19.220 --> 01:12:20.619 firefighters have to live with this for the rest 01:12:20.619 --> 01:12:22.340 of their life. Knocking on the door saying, right, 01:12:22.380 --> 01:12:24.699 the safest place for you is to stay in your flat. 01:12:25.359 --> 01:12:28.859 It's compartmentalised. It should protect you. 01:12:29.739 --> 01:12:32.119 But essentially, it just, you know, them guys 01:12:32.119 --> 01:12:34.159 are knocking on doors and walking away. And they've 01:12:34.159 --> 01:12:36.100 left them families and people in there. And they've 01:12:36.100 --> 01:12:38.760 got to live with them decisions, you know. And 01:12:38.760 --> 01:12:41.529 that was down to, it is, we had our failings 01:12:41.529 --> 01:12:44.289 for sure with how we and training and stuff and 01:12:44.289 --> 01:12:46.850 how we look at high -rise fires what we implement 01:12:46.850 --> 01:12:48.670 i know a big thing with you guys is wind -driven 01:12:48.670 --> 01:12:51.090 fires and your high -rises we don't even touch 01:12:51.090 --> 01:12:54.310 anything like that here um but yeah lots of things 01:12:54.310 --> 01:12:56.069 have been implemented off the back of that how 01:12:56.069 --> 01:12:57.689 we should do it we've been looking out with our 01:12:57.689 --> 01:12:59.710 unions whether or not we can go above the fire 01:12:59.710 --> 01:13:02.760 floor without going under air Because essentially, 01:13:02.880 --> 01:13:05.159 depending on where our bridgehead is set up now, 01:13:05.300 --> 01:13:07.220 it's usually two clear floors below the fire. 01:13:08.260 --> 01:13:09.880 That's where you'll go under air and then go. 01:13:10.399 --> 01:13:12.199 And then we'll have a search sector. But there's 01:13:12.199 --> 01:13:14.039 been discussions about whether or not we can 01:13:14.039 --> 01:13:16.680 go above the fire without putting our BA steps 01:13:16.680 --> 01:13:19.939 on and all that kind of thing. So there's still 01:13:19.939 --> 01:13:22.899 discussions going on now. So what we could implement 01:13:22.899 --> 01:13:24.859 to get to them upper limits, them upper floors 01:13:24.859 --> 01:13:26.739 that you're not going to get to when you're going 01:13:26.739 --> 01:13:28.319 under air on the 5th and getting all the way 01:13:28.319 --> 01:13:32.340 up to the 20th. Yeah, it's interesting, but it's 01:13:32.340 --> 01:13:35.560 terrifying at the same time. It is. I think it 01:13:35.560 --> 01:13:39.720 was Tampa. When I was on the West Coast looking 01:13:39.720 --> 01:13:42.060 to come back to the East Coast, sadly, it was 01:13:42.060 --> 01:13:45.220 right when we had the 08 crash, so no one was 01:13:45.220 --> 01:13:48.319 hiring. But they had special operations, and 01:13:48.319 --> 01:13:50.659 one of them was helicopter insertion in a high 01:13:50.659 --> 01:13:52.640 -rise fire. So they would drop firefighters on 01:13:52.640 --> 01:13:54.739 the roof, and they would fight from the top down, 01:13:54.920 --> 01:13:57.039 which I thought was amazing. But when I think 01:13:57.039 --> 01:13:59.520 about Grenfell, There's no way in hell you'd 01:13:59.520 --> 01:14:01.960 be able to do that because the fire was burning. 01:14:02.060 --> 01:14:03.920 So you're not going to be able to insert. The 01:14:03.920 --> 01:14:05.420 helicopter wouldn't be able to get close. And 01:14:05.420 --> 01:14:08.920 if they did, they'd basically be frying the firefighters 01:14:08.920 --> 01:14:11.300 on the end of the line anyway. So, you know, 01:14:11.319 --> 01:14:13.979 it is such a complex conversation. And I remember 01:14:13.979 --> 01:14:17.340 the criticism was the aerials, the ladders, not 01:14:17.340 --> 01:14:19.220 be able to reach. Well, that's just a complete 01:14:19.220 --> 01:14:21.880 misunderstanding of information by the public 01:14:21.880 --> 01:14:24.220 because, I mean, you know, most aerials here 01:14:24.220 --> 01:14:26.500 are 100 feet. So you're lucky if that's even 01:14:26.500 --> 01:14:30.989 eight floors. Yeah, yeah. And that's the issue, 01:14:31.090 --> 01:14:34.149 is the perception of what was laid out, that 01:14:34.149 --> 01:14:36.449 inquiry and how we... We dealt with it on the 01:14:36.449 --> 01:14:39.489 day. But with the high rise, we've got two new 01:14:39.489 --> 01:14:42.409 turntable ladders now, you know, 64 meters. So 01:14:42.409 --> 01:14:44.489 what's that? A hundred and something foot that 01:14:44.489 --> 01:14:46.909 goes. But that's still not going to get to the 01:14:46.909 --> 01:14:49.970 top of that high rise. No. And also the roads 01:14:49.970 --> 01:14:51.689 aren't, you know, the infrastructure is not there 01:14:51.689 --> 01:14:53.789 for it. The positioning of that turntable ladder 01:14:53.789 --> 01:14:56.350 to get the best reach to get to the highest point 01:14:56.350 --> 01:14:57.590 in that building, you're not going to get it. 01:14:57.850 --> 01:14:59.250 You know, you're not going to be able to service 01:14:59.250 --> 01:15:01.489 all of one side of that building with that turntable 01:15:01.489 --> 01:15:06.520 ladder. So it's yeah, it's it's it's crazy. Absolutely. 01:15:07.060 --> 01:15:09.439 Well, let's kind of go on your mental health 01:15:09.439 --> 01:15:11.100 journey, because I know you've got a pretty powerful 01:15:11.100 --> 01:15:14.579 story to tell. You know, when you reflect back 01:15:14.579 --> 01:15:17.979 now, what were some of the the events or the 01:15:17.979 --> 01:15:20.100 beginnings of the downward spiral? And then where 01:15:20.100 --> 01:15:21.699 was the lowest place that you found yourself? 01:15:22.899 --> 01:15:29.819 Oh, wow. So back in 2009, I was. Personal life 01:15:29.819 --> 01:15:33.100 was in a bit of a rough area. I was going through 01:15:33.100 --> 01:15:34.859 a divorce, not getting to see my children, etc. 01:15:35.500 --> 01:15:39.260 Trying to maintain and be present at work. We 01:15:39.260 --> 01:15:43.500 had a particularly horrible incident. And still 01:15:43.500 --> 01:15:45.819 to this day, I don't know whether that has any 01:15:45.819 --> 01:15:49.560 drive on what one of the guys did after that 01:15:49.560 --> 01:15:52.279 incident. But he went home, put a dog choker 01:15:52.279 --> 01:15:53.779 chain around his neck and tried to hang himself. 01:15:54.899 --> 01:15:57.479 So I can remember sitting at home. that day and 01:15:57.479 --> 01:15:59.079 getting a call from my station officer saying 01:15:59.079 --> 01:16:00.840 jay she's sitting down i was like yeah he goes 01:16:00.840 --> 01:16:04.899 such and such um he's in hospital he's intubated 01:16:04.899 --> 01:16:07.140 at the moment he tried to take his own life and 01:16:07.140 --> 01:16:09.079 it was a combination of lots of things it wasn't 01:16:09.079 --> 01:16:11.340 it wasn't that incident it wasn't that moment 01:16:11.340 --> 01:16:13.319 i think it was just where my mental health was 01:16:14.010 --> 01:16:16.210 with regards to I was pretty much homeless, sofa 01:16:16.210 --> 01:16:18.430 surfing. I was living back at home with my parents, 01:16:18.630 --> 01:16:20.770 which is really difficult to do when you get 01:16:20.770 --> 01:16:23.470 to a certain age, you know, really hard. And 01:16:23.470 --> 01:16:27.130 I'd had a huge row with my pops back then. And 01:16:27.130 --> 01:16:31.930 it was just unattainable for me to live in their 01:16:31.930 --> 01:16:35.369 house. So I was sofa surfing. I was at a point 01:16:35.369 --> 01:16:37.350 I was in a tent. I was staying in a shed. So 01:16:37.350 --> 01:16:42.430 I was pretty much homeless. and it was it was 01:16:42.430 --> 01:16:44.369 really difficult then I then I just my mental 01:16:44.369 --> 01:16:47.149 health I wasn't wasn't right to be at work I 01:16:47.149 --> 01:16:48.649 wasn't there I wasn't good enough to be at work 01:16:48.649 --> 01:16:51.250 I wasn't in the right frame of mind I had some 01:16:51.250 --> 01:16:54.970 time off went back probably too soon broke down 01:16:54.970 --> 01:16:57.729 uh broke down in tears broke down crying and 01:16:57.729 --> 01:17:01.029 obviously went back to just not existing you 01:17:01.029 --> 01:17:03.409 know just living just trying to get from day 01:17:03.409 --> 01:17:05.430 to day I was still paying a mortgage in the house 01:17:05.430 --> 01:17:09.439 financially I was really struggling and um Alcohol 01:17:09.439 --> 01:17:11.560 took a big part of my life at that time as well 01:17:11.560 --> 01:17:13.039 because I just wanted to sleep through the days, 01:17:13.060 --> 01:17:15.060 wanted to get away from everything that was happening. 01:17:16.020 --> 01:17:18.979 I'd do a strip of diazepam a day, you know, to 01:17:18.979 --> 01:17:20.899 sleep the day off. And I was in a pretty dark 01:17:20.899 --> 01:17:23.840 place, you know, really, really dark place. And 01:17:23.840 --> 01:17:26.880 because I'd been off for a period of time, it 01:17:26.880 --> 01:17:28.880 sort of hit certain triggers. So fortunately 01:17:28.880 --> 01:17:33.819 enough, I gave up seeing further ahead now. Mental 01:17:33.819 --> 01:17:36.470 health was definitely... looked at differently 01:17:36.470 --> 01:17:38.409 and was really current around that time or starting 01:17:38.409 --> 01:17:40.510 to get its currency. You know, people were really 01:17:40.510 --> 01:17:42.829 standing up and looking and the brigade were 01:17:42.829 --> 01:17:46.409 implementing things. So I got a link officer, 01:17:46.630 --> 01:17:48.810 a guy called Terry Ridgely. He's no longer with 01:17:48.810 --> 01:17:54.390 us. But circumstances, events happened that completely... 01:17:54.750 --> 01:17:56.489 I still to this day, if they hadn't happened, 01:17:56.529 --> 01:17:59.550 I wouldn't be here to this day. I got to a point, 01:17:59.609 --> 01:18:01.930 James, where enough was enough. I just didn't 01:18:01.930 --> 01:18:03.310 think I was good enough to be here. I wasn't 01:18:03.310 --> 01:18:05.170 a good enough man. I wasn't a good enough husband. 01:18:05.329 --> 01:18:07.630 I hadn't been a good enough father. And I got 01:18:07.630 --> 01:18:13.210 a bottle of Orimorph and I just drunk it and 01:18:13.210 --> 01:18:16.890 fell asleep. And fortunately enough, it was in 01:18:16.890 --> 01:18:19.609 a tattoo studio at the time because I was working 01:18:19.609 --> 01:18:21.510 at a tattoo studio. I was doing some tattooing 01:18:21.510 --> 01:18:23.149 and drawing stuff. And one of the guys had forgot 01:18:23.149 --> 01:18:26.069 their sketchbook, come back to collect his sketchbook. 01:18:26.109 --> 01:18:28.029 If he hadn't come back, he wouldn't have found 01:18:28.029 --> 01:18:31.810 me. You know, I was shallow breathing, virtually 01:18:31.810 --> 01:18:34.510 in respiratory arrest and just slowly passing 01:18:34.510 --> 01:18:36.449 away, really. So he called the ambulance. I got 01:18:36.449 --> 01:18:42.090 took into hospital. And then that kind of started 01:18:42.090 --> 01:18:44.550 to come. all come out there and everything that 01:18:44.550 --> 01:18:46.210 was going on. They were going, well, look, you're 01:18:46.210 --> 01:18:49.210 depressed. You need to be medicated. And I nearly 01:18:49.210 --> 01:18:52.350 went down that route. But Terry Ridgely, this 01:18:52.350 --> 01:18:54.649 man, he was like, right, he'd come to see me 01:18:54.649 --> 01:18:56.789 every week. He'd come and take my clothes, go 01:18:56.789 --> 01:18:58.270 and wash my clothes. He'd take me out for some 01:18:58.270 --> 01:18:59.810 breakfast. He'd give me a little bit of money 01:18:59.810 --> 01:19:03.050 because I was on my ass. I had nothing, nothing 01:19:03.050 --> 01:19:04.970 at all. And he's like, look, we need to get you 01:19:04.970 --> 01:19:06.529 back on your feet. He said, you need to find 01:19:06.529 --> 01:19:10.250 somewhere to live. A solicitor's letter's coming 01:19:10.250 --> 01:19:12.010 through, getting charged every time a solicitor's 01:19:12.010 --> 01:19:14.149 letter comes through because the divorce was 01:19:14.149 --> 01:19:16.869 a little bit messy at that moment in time. And 01:19:16.869 --> 01:19:19.029 I can remember going back to that tattoo studio, 01:19:19.329 --> 01:19:22.670 going to lay down where I'd previously just nearly 01:19:22.670 --> 01:19:25.710 passed away and sat there in a car and I just 01:19:25.710 --> 01:19:29.949 burst into tears. And just as I look up, it's 01:19:29.949 --> 01:19:31.949 in this little post called Coffridge Close, just 01:19:31.949 --> 01:19:34.909 as I look up, there was a sign for solicitors 01:19:34.909 --> 01:19:38.300 and they specialise in family law. And I walked 01:19:38.300 --> 01:19:41.140 over, I knocked on the door. This lady called 01:19:41.140 --> 01:19:43.720 Wendy's answered the door. And I'm just in floods 01:19:43.720 --> 01:19:45.239 of tears. And she's like, you're all right, you're 01:19:45.239 --> 01:19:48.079 all right. I said, yeah, I see. I just need some 01:19:48.079 --> 01:19:51.079 free advice, some advice. You do a free consultation. 01:19:51.359 --> 01:19:53.319 She says, I do. Sit down, let me get you a cup 01:19:53.319 --> 01:19:55.460 of tea. True English way, a cup of tea, a couple 01:19:55.460 --> 01:19:58.960 of sugars, makes everything better. So I sat 01:19:58.960 --> 01:20:02.239 there and she was passing me tissues. I was inconsolable 01:20:02.239 --> 01:20:04.649 for a little while. She said, what do you do, 01:20:04.750 --> 01:20:06.890 Jason? What do you do for work? I said, I'm a 01:20:06.890 --> 01:20:11.569 firefighter. And she went, did you attend a firing 01:20:11.569 --> 01:20:15.770 past them just down the road and save some horses? 01:20:15.909 --> 01:20:18.250 I went, I did. I attended that incident. I was 01:20:18.250 --> 01:20:20.470 on duty. And she went, I've been meaning to give 01:20:20.470 --> 01:20:22.689 thanks to the fire brigade since that incident, 01:20:22.770 --> 01:20:24.189 but I've just never had the chance to go and 01:20:24.189 --> 01:20:26.090 thank anybody. So for that reason, I'm going 01:20:26.090 --> 01:20:29.180 to represent you for free. So she sat me down, 01:20:29.260 --> 01:20:30.979 went through everything. We started going through 01:20:30.979 --> 01:20:32.600 everything. And it was just that combination 01:20:32.600 --> 01:20:36.279 of events, which was just, it's honestly, if 01:20:36.279 --> 01:20:39.060 it wasn't for that, somebody's definitely looking 01:20:39.060 --> 01:20:42.699 down on me for sure. So she started dealing with 01:20:42.699 --> 01:20:46.180 all of that side of everything for me. Letters 01:20:46.180 --> 01:20:48.500 to the solicitors and it pretty abruptly stopped 01:20:48.500 --> 01:20:50.760 because it just so happened, believe it or not, 01:20:50.899 --> 01:20:54.579 that the solicitor that was sending the letters 01:20:54.579 --> 01:20:56.960 and coming through was trained by Wendy at her. 01:20:58.360 --> 01:21:03.739 Crazy. So, yeah, she had a, let's just say she 01:21:03.739 --> 01:21:07.479 had a bone to pick with her. So she was really, 01:21:07.500 --> 01:21:11.199 really on it for me. And then off the back of 01:21:11.199 --> 01:21:14.920 that, I found a little flat, like a little bed 01:21:14.920 --> 01:21:19.180 sit. Went to Terry Ridgely, my link officer for 01:21:19.180 --> 01:21:21.000 the Firefighters Charity in London, who are, 01:21:21.220 --> 01:21:23.380 well, not in London, but the Firefighters Charity 01:21:23.380 --> 01:21:26.239 in this country, a fantastic organization. I 01:21:26.239 --> 01:21:28.579 cannot speak highly enough of them and what they've 01:21:28.579 --> 01:21:30.699 done for me and still to this day what they do 01:21:30.699 --> 01:21:34.760 for me or have done for me. And he said, you 01:21:34.760 --> 01:21:36.539 need to find somewhere to live. So I found this 01:21:36.539 --> 01:21:38.979 little place. And he said, how much is it? I 01:21:38.979 --> 01:21:41.000 said, I can't afford it, Terry. It's like 900 01:21:41.000 --> 01:21:43.600 pounds. I got the two months rent down. It's 01:21:43.600 --> 01:21:46.310 like 900 pounds. And he's like, don't worry, 01:21:46.430 --> 01:21:49.430 I'll sort that out. So he literally drove to 01:21:49.430 --> 01:21:51.310 the bank. Where he got that money from to this 01:21:51.310 --> 01:21:52.630 day, I don't know. Whether it was out of his 01:21:52.630 --> 01:21:54.090 own pocket or whether it was from the charity, 01:21:54.250 --> 01:21:56.050 I don't know. So we went back and we went, bombed, 01:21:56.090 --> 01:21:58.489 paid cash. Next thing, I've got a place to live. 01:21:59.170 --> 01:22:01.529 You know, nothing in it. I was sleeping on the 01:22:01.529 --> 01:22:05.720 floor, but nothing in it at all. It was on that 01:22:05.720 --> 01:22:07.300 airfield. So it was on the drop zone where I 01:22:07.300 --> 01:22:09.439 skydived. So there's a really cool community 01:22:09.439 --> 01:22:12.039 of people that I got to sort of started to look 01:22:12.039 --> 01:22:14.100 after me and got some really strong friendships. 01:22:14.159 --> 01:22:16.939 And I was slowly getting back to work. I've gone 01:22:16.939 --> 01:22:19.819 to work one day. I've come back home expecting 01:22:19.819 --> 01:22:22.500 to just come to a house, sleeping bag on the 01:22:22.500 --> 01:22:24.460 floor. And the whole house had been kitted out. 01:22:24.520 --> 01:22:26.960 My flat, sorry, had been kitted out. I had a 01:22:26.960 --> 01:22:32.260 bed, I had a TV unit, TV cutlery. condiments, 01:22:32.260 --> 01:22:35.399 everything. The guys had gone off, gone and donated 01:22:35.399 --> 01:22:37.880 everything or anything that they could find to 01:22:37.880 --> 01:22:42.979 support me. And that was just like, when you're 01:22:42.979 --> 01:22:46.119 down and you're bad and you're dark and you're 01:22:46.119 --> 01:22:48.300 in that place and still to this day, it's just 01:22:48.300 --> 01:22:51.319 like, wow, people will do that for other humans, 01:22:51.520 --> 01:22:54.020 you know? And I can remember just sitting there 01:22:54.020 --> 01:22:55.560 and then that kind of all just started to... 01:22:55.850 --> 01:22:57.829 Roll on from there. I managed to get back to 01:22:57.829 --> 01:23:01.710 work, counselling and stuff. And then we started 01:23:01.710 --> 01:23:03.409 to look into all my triggers, which I'm still 01:23:03.409 --> 01:23:05.710 trying to figure out now. You know, I still have 01:23:05.710 --> 01:23:07.930 moments where things can happen, but I'm getting 01:23:07.930 --> 01:23:13.119 better. I'm learning what I need to do for myself 01:23:13.119 --> 01:23:15.560 and understanding my triggers and what I need 01:23:15.560 --> 01:23:18.779 to do I'm quiet for me and me personally with 01:23:18.779 --> 01:23:20.739 my mental health I have to have a quite a rigid 01:23:20.739 --> 01:23:22.939 routine so I'm up early in the morning and I 01:23:22.939 --> 01:23:25.140 need to do something where it's 15 minutes of 01:23:25.140 --> 01:23:28.039 moving a bit of self -reflection a bit of meditation 01:23:28.039 --> 01:23:31.960 if I knock out that that's that system then things 01:23:31.960 --> 01:23:33.800 start to whittle their way back in a little bit 01:23:33.800 --> 01:23:36.460 so I have to maintain that but um yeah essentially 01:23:37.159 --> 01:23:41.300 I was back in a flat. Then my kids started to 01:23:41.300 --> 01:23:43.500 see my kids again. I was back at work. And then, 01:23:43.520 --> 01:23:46.659 yeah, it just went from there. We got to a point 01:23:46.659 --> 01:23:48.640 where we talked about medicating me because the 01:23:48.640 --> 01:23:50.260 doctors were like, you're just depressed. I'm 01:23:50.260 --> 01:23:52.500 like, well, hold on a minute. You know, there's 01:23:52.500 --> 01:23:54.920 a reason I feel like I do. Yeah, I'm depressed. 01:23:55.199 --> 01:23:57.859 Yeah, it's shit. But hold on a minute. I just 01:23:57.859 --> 01:23:59.640 got divorced. I'm not seeing my children. I nearly 01:23:59.640 --> 01:24:01.680 passed away. I haven't had anywhere to live. 01:24:02.220 --> 01:24:04.319 There's reasonings behind why I'm feeling the 01:24:04.319 --> 01:24:07.590 way that I'm feeling. You know, so slowly, one 01:24:07.590 --> 01:24:10.529 of the, going back to that, one of the hardest 01:24:10.529 --> 01:24:15.590 things I found mentally was I was a trained competitor. 01:24:15.770 --> 01:24:18.510 You know, I fought, I fought professionally in 01:24:18.510 --> 01:24:20.890 mixed martial arts. And I thought I had a strong 01:24:20.890 --> 01:24:23.750 mindset. I thought I had a strong mental aptitude 01:24:23.750 --> 01:24:25.689 and I could hold my own, you know, and I could 01:24:25.689 --> 01:24:29.470 put things away. But I was completely broken. 01:24:29.689 --> 01:24:31.229 Anything I'd learned through that, there was 01:24:31.229 --> 01:24:34.109 nothing I could control. The counselors were 01:24:34.109 --> 01:24:35.989 like, well, that's exactly the issue. There's 01:24:35.989 --> 01:24:38.630 circumstances out of your control. When it comes 01:24:38.630 --> 01:24:42.609 to competing in mixed martial arts, I knew if 01:24:42.609 --> 01:24:45.329 I trained my ass off and got as fit as I could, 01:24:45.369 --> 01:24:47.829 I'd give anyone a scrap. Worst case scenario, 01:24:47.829 --> 01:24:49.329 you was going to come out with some lumps and 01:24:49.329 --> 01:24:51.229 bruises on you, bumps and bruises, you know. 01:24:51.649 --> 01:24:54.850 But not being able to understand why I couldn't 01:24:54.850 --> 01:24:56.689 control what was going on in my head was really 01:24:56.689 --> 01:24:59.930 difficult. So we looked at some medication and 01:24:59.930 --> 01:25:03.340 stuff, and I was like, no, I don't need it. And 01:25:03.340 --> 01:25:04.960 then, yes, slowly got back to work, got back 01:25:04.960 --> 01:25:07.020 into the rhythm of things. I've had a few blips 01:25:07.020 --> 01:25:11.720 along the way since then, but essentially I can 01:25:11.720 --> 01:25:15.800 look back now and look in onto that of 2009 and 01:25:15.800 --> 01:25:21.560 really see how poorly I was and how far I've 01:25:21.560 --> 01:25:25.300 come, you know, how far I've come from then and 01:25:25.300 --> 01:25:27.779 how well I understand myself and my own triggers 01:25:27.779 --> 01:25:32.149 and stuff now. So, yeah, it's... It was circumstances 01:25:32.149 --> 01:25:34.529 of offense, I think, you know, had triggered 01:25:34.529 --> 01:25:37.970 a butterfly effect, if you like, which kept me 01:25:37.970 --> 01:25:41.350 here and gave me a purpose. My nan always said, 01:25:41.369 --> 01:25:44.369 I'm here for a reason and you're here to help. 01:25:44.550 --> 01:25:47.909 And yeah, that was that really. So I learned 01:25:47.909 --> 01:25:51.630 a tremendous amount of vulnerability of what 01:25:51.630 --> 01:25:53.750 I've been through. And I can share that with 01:25:53.750 --> 01:25:57.029 people that I work with, you know. But, yeah, 01:25:57.090 --> 01:25:58.930 it was a tremendously difficult time and I just 01:25:58.930 --> 01:26:00.649 was lucky enough to come out the other side of 01:26:00.649 --> 01:26:03.930 it through the right people and the right things 01:26:03.930 --> 01:26:06.869 happened at the right moment, you know. I want 01:26:06.869 --> 01:26:09.369 to get to the reason that you're still here, 01:26:09.390 --> 01:26:11.500 but just... Going back to when you were struggling 01:26:11.500 --> 01:26:15.140 immensely, when we see the mental health posters 01:26:15.140 --> 01:26:18.479 and the conversations, sadly, usually it's, well, 01:26:18.619 --> 01:26:20.920 Jason saw all these horrible things, some of 01:26:20.920 --> 01:26:22.659 these calls that you talked about, and that's 01:26:22.659 --> 01:26:25.140 why he's struggling. And we're missing a lot 01:26:25.140 --> 01:26:27.060 of the conversations about suit deprivation, 01:26:27.180 --> 01:26:29.800 about moral injury, organizational stress, et 01:26:29.800 --> 01:26:33.340 cetera, et cetera. But on the actual conversation 01:26:33.340 --> 01:26:35.800 of when people get to that point of suicide, 01:26:36.180 --> 01:26:39.140 the way that - We heard people talking when we 01:26:39.140 --> 01:26:42.439 were young was suicide is selfish, it's cowardly. 01:26:42.460 --> 01:26:46.000 How could you think of your kids? But then you 01:26:46.000 --> 01:26:48.159 listen to people. And in my case, hundreds of 01:26:48.159 --> 01:26:50.699 people that have been there, some of whom actually 01:26:50.699 --> 01:26:52.359 went through their attempts and they survived. 01:26:52.479 --> 01:26:53.979 A lot of people were there and then they had 01:26:53.979 --> 01:26:55.859 that God moment, just like you did with the tattoo 01:26:55.859 --> 01:27:01.460 artist. But with this. perfect storm of all things 01:27:01.460 --> 01:27:03.840 you know the everything from the job then you 01:27:03.840 --> 01:27:06.479 know relationship issues etc etc that perfect 01:27:06.479 --> 01:27:10.260 storm it's never one thing it's everything there 01:27:10.260 --> 01:27:14.060 seems to be a miswiring of the brain where the 01:27:14.060 --> 01:27:16.979 people actually believe that they are the reason 01:27:16.979 --> 01:27:19.659 for the people that they loves pain and if they 01:27:19.659 --> 01:27:22.579 just remove themselves everyone will be happier 01:27:22.579 --> 01:27:26.260 did you have that little voice in your ear yeah 01:27:26.260 --> 01:27:29.609 yeah i did i did and you know what I'll be completely 01:27:29.609 --> 01:27:32.510 honest and vulnerable here. I still get it. I 01:27:32.510 --> 01:27:34.569 still get it today when I've had them moments, 01:27:34.649 --> 01:27:36.390 but that's something I'm not going to act on. 01:27:36.649 --> 01:27:41.010 You know, that was when I look back to that moment, 01:27:41.130 --> 01:27:45.010 it was a fuck you. I've had enough kind of moment. 01:27:45.109 --> 01:27:50.289 And I've got the tools and the conscious ability 01:27:50.289 --> 01:27:53.930 now to recognize before I get anywhere near that 01:27:53.930 --> 01:27:55.869 again. But I certainly had that moment. Yeah, 01:27:55.970 --> 01:27:58.380 I certainly did, buddy. Well, I think this is 01:27:58.380 --> 01:28:00.260 why it's so important because that's a huge red 01:28:00.260 --> 01:28:03.300 flag. If we are hearing a voice, if we're starting 01:28:03.300 --> 01:28:05.800 to believe that we are the issue, we're a burden 01:28:05.800 --> 01:28:08.439 to the people that we love, when a clear mind 01:28:08.439 --> 01:28:11.020 obviously knows that when we take our own lives, 01:28:11.079 --> 01:28:14.779 we add more pain to our family, it reframes that 01:28:14.779 --> 01:28:19.380 miswiring of the brain. So at that moment, in 01:28:19.380 --> 01:28:23.359 theory, it makes that act courageous and selfless. 01:28:23.420 --> 01:28:26.060 If you truly believe that... if I just go, everything 01:28:26.060 --> 01:28:28.279 will be better, then that's a sacrifice. But 01:28:28.279 --> 01:28:32.000 obviously, it's a conversation from a distorted 01:28:32.000 --> 01:28:34.720 mind at that point. So be able to pull people 01:28:34.720 --> 01:28:36.819 back away from that, get them to kind of start 01:28:36.819 --> 01:28:39.239 healing, as you said, surrounding them with community 01:28:39.239 --> 01:28:43.180 and all this love that you were exposed to. It 01:28:43.180 --> 01:28:45.239 quietens that mind again and people are able 01:28:45.239 --> 01:28:47.000 to see, well, wait a second. No, you know, my 01:28:47.000 --> 01:28:49.579 kids do love me. You know, my parents do love 01:28:49.579 --> 01:28:52.619 me, et cetera, et cetera. But it's such a dangerous 01:28:52.619 --> 01:28:55.539 voice that's compounded by our profession because 01:28:55.539 --> 01:28:57.140 you've already got these struggles. And then 01:28:57.140 --> 01:28:59.859 day in, day out, you're adding more trauma. You're 01:28:59.859 --> 01:29:02.600 adding more sleep deprivation. So it's chipping 01:29:02.600 --> 01:29:05.460 away at this even more. So hearing this over 01:29:05.460 --> 01:29:07.560 and over and over again, this feeling of being 01:29:07.560 --> 01:29:09.720 a burden, I think it needs to be front and center 01:29:09.720 --> 01:29:13.470 in the mental health conversation. So when you 01:29:13.470 --> 01:29:15.909 start hearing that voice, that's when you need 01:29:15.909 --> 01:29:17.489 to start telling people. That's when you need 01:29:17.489 --> 01:29:20.390 to lean into the people you love, because that's 01:29:20.390 --> 01:29:22.949 the beginning of that really, you know, crisis 01:29:22.949 --> 01:29:26.449 downward spiral by that point. Yeah, for sure. 01:29:27.489 --> 01:29:30.350 And I felt like I had nobody to approach, nobody 01:29:30.350 --> 01:29:34.630 to talk to. I mean, we're talking 2009. You get 01:29:34.630 --> 01:29:39.619 to now how prevalent, how it's... People applauded 01:29:39.619 --> 01:29:41.500 for their vulnerability for speaking about their 01:29:41.500 --> 01:29:43.560 mental health, which is fantastic. I think that's 01:29:43.560 --> 01:29:47.880 definitely, it's incredible. But I felt like 01:29:47.880 --> 01:29:50.220 I had nowhere to turn. You know, the Firefighters 01:29:50.220 --> 01:29:52.939 charity helped me in one aspect of support, but 01:29:52.939 --> 01:29:55.319 I didn't realise what we had there was the mental 01:29:55.319 --> 01:29:57.220 health counselling aspect of it, where you can 01:29:57.220 --> 01:29:59.399 get a certain amount of trauma sessions, counselling 01:29:59.399 --> 01:30:02.220 and all this kind of stuff now. They've got Harcum 01:30:02.220 --> 01:30:04.600 House where you can go and have reset. breaks 01:30:04.600 --> 01:30:06.340 with them so you can go and spend seven days 01:30:06.340 --> 01:30:08.279 and they do a bit of movement you do meditation 01:30:08.279 --> 01:30:10.640 you have group sessions there's so many things 01:30:10.640 --> 01:30:15.720 in place and it is it is it is current and i 01:30:15.720 --> 01:30:17.800 and it is a brilliant thing that we have i'm 01:30:17.800 --> 01:30:20.119 hoping now that people have the ability to to 01:30:20.119 --> 01:30:22.000 when they feel vulnerable when they feel down 01:30:22.000 --> 01:30:24.340 that they have that opportunity to speak to people 01:30:24.340 --> 01:30:26.720 and i think going back to the watch culture especially 01:30:26.720 --> 01:30:29.859 on a fire station when people when you're when 01:30:29.859 --> 01:30:31.359 you've got that click and you've been together 01:30:31.359 --> 01:30:33.680 for a long time you can see you can read people 01:30:33.680 --> 01:30:35.840 you know when you're self -aware you can see 01:30:35.840 --> 01:30:38.399 them when people might not be quite right you 01:30:38.399 --> 01:30:40.239 know and you can just check in on them but you 01:30:40.239 --> 01:30:42.239 create an environment where people feel safe 01:30:42.239 --> 01:30:46.020 and willing to open up when they are feeling 01:30:46.020 --> 01:30:47.920 it when they're not feeling right i mean now 01:30:47.920 --> 01:30:51.109 especially With the brigade as such, we have 01:30:51.109 --> 01:30:53.449 a fatal incident, we get a POS team, they phone 01:30:53.449 --> 01:30:55.289 us up straight away, straight after the incident, 01:30:55.369 --> 01:30:56.930 we have a critical debrief, then they'll come 01:30:56.930 --> 01:30:58.529 down and you're off of counselling straight away. 01:30:58.850 --> 01:31:01.350 I mean, that wasn't the case back in 2009, but 01:31:01.350 --> 01:31:04.729 it was a combination of lots of things, you know, 01:31:04.770 --> 01:31:08.289 not just the incidents. They were an icing on 01:31:08.289 --> 01:31:10.489 the cake, if you like, but it was everything 01:31:10.489 --> 01:31:13.430 else that led up to that as well. Well, also 01:31:13.430 --> 01:31:15.689 your story highlights how important community 01:31:15.689 --> 01:31:18.180 is. And if you look even... Recently, I think 01:31:18.180 --> 01:31:20.680 there's been studies that have shown that even 01:31:20.680 --> 01:31:23.479 just longevity in general, like the ability to 01:31:23.479 --> 01:31:27.340 stave off disease, is less about even diet and 01:31:27.340 --> 01:31:30.399 exercise and more about relationships. And so 01:31:30.399 --> 01:31:33.020 when we were talking, for example, at the beginning, 01:31:33.100 --> 01:31:35.439 the high bar that set the front door of the fire 01:31:35.439 --> 01:31:38.739 service creates this cohesive team, these relationships 01:31:38.739 --> 01:31:40.859 that will be there through your whole career. 01:31:41.630 --> 01:31:43.810 Those are the people that not only see if you're 01:31:43.810 --> 01:31:46.670 struggling, but as in your case, all those members 01:31:46.670 --> 01:31:49.909 of the tribe that came together, surrounded you 01:31:49.909 --> 01:31:52.329 and gave you the foundation to then pick you 01:31:52.329 --> 01:31:56.189 up. So when we see this kind of divisive nastiness 01:31:56.189 --> 01:31:58.289 that's being pumped at the moment, it's no wonder 01:31:58.289 --> 01:32:00.409 that we have more of a mental health crisis. 01:32:00.789 --> 01:32:03.010 The way that we counter that, whether it's in 01:32:03.010 --> 01:32:05.170 our profession or even nationally or internationally. 01:32:05.920 --> 01:32:08.779 is that we re -find the very community that, 01:32:08.819 --> 01:32:12.500 as the phrase says, it takes a village. If you 01:32:12.500 --> 01:32:14.439 look far enough back in time in human history, 01:32:14.539 --> 01:32:17.680 we existed in these small groups that were there 01:32:17.680 --> 01:32:19.319 for each other whatever we were going through. 01:32:20.159 --> 01:32:24.539 Yeah, it was shared trauma, wasn't it? And that's 01:32:24.539 --> 01:32:26.840 what we try to do now. There's something which 01:32:26.840 --> 01:32:32.949 food, exercise... All of these things are the 01:32:32.949 --> 01:32:34.970 huge parts of playing now in my life and my mental 01:32:34.970 --> 01:32:36.789 wellbeing, for sure. You know, getting up in 01:32:36.789 --> 01:32:38.529 the morning, getting training. But back then 01:32:38.529 --> 01:32:40.989 when that disappeared and gone away, you didn't 01:32:40.989 --> 01:32:43.630 realise how much of an impact that exercise had. 01:32:43.770 --> 01:32:45.850 And then being at station, being around the people 01:32:45.850 --> 01:32:47.850 that I, you know, that I cared about. But when 01:32:47.850 --> 01:32:51.529 you're not there, you soon become a memory rather 01:32:51.529 --> 01:32:53.850 than being pertinent or present in people's life. 01:32:53.909 --> 01:32:57.779 People do forget about you. you know um and i 01:32:57.779 --> 01:32:59.520 was lucky enough to have the skydiving community 01:32:59.520 --> 01:33:01.260 them guys which all clubbed together and did 01:33:01.260 --> 01:33:04.520 what they did for me at that time for sure so 01:33:04.520 --> 01:33:07.020 talk to me we're switching a little bit now about 01:33:07.020 --> 01:33:13.239 um unified against violence yes okay so actually 01:33:13.239 --> 01:33:15.800 two years ago today 16th of december was when 01:33:15.800 --> 01:33:20.060 we first um we first set the charity up myself 01:33:20.060 --> 01:33:23.960 and um miriam martinez we Basically, being in 01:33:23.960 --> 01:33:27.000 the position that we're in within London, like 01:33:27.000 --> 01:33:28.979 most fire brigades, we're still in a very privileged 01:33:28.979 --> 01:33:31.279 position. We're not going to front door. 99 .9 01:33:31.279 --> 01:33:32.779 % of members of the community are going to open 01:33:32.779 --> 01:33:35.939 their front door and let us in. London itself 01:33:35.939 --> 01:33:38.899 currently at the moment, James, I think from 01:33:38.899 --> 01:33:44.260 March up to March last year, so 2025, London 01:33:44.260 --> 01:33:49.439 itself had over 16 ,300 sharp implement attacks. 01:33:50.329 --> 01:33:53.630 So that works out around about 43 a day. So that 01:33:53.630 --> 01:33:55.930 would be somebody being held up at knife point, 01:33:56.109 --> 01:33:58.890 somebody not, they're not all ending in, you 01:33:58.890 --> 01:34:01.270 know, physical stabbings, but there's, there's, 01:34:01.270 --> 01:34:03.649 there's sharp implements of pain. That's, that's 01:34:03.649 --> 01:34:06.050 horrendous. And then you boil that down to our 01:34:06.050 --> 01:34:08.090 borough. And currently at the moment within the 01:34:08.090 --> 01:34:10.810 borough that I work in, we've got an average 01:34:10.810 --> 01:34:13.510 around about four stabbings a day or four attacks 01:34:13.510 --> 01:34:16.810 a day, two shootings a week. It is, it is, it's 01:34:16.810 --> 01:34:20.079 incredible. And we're turning up to more and 01:34:20.079 --> 01:34:23.800 more of these incidents, you know, because the 01:34:23.800 --> 01:34:26.539 LAS, the London Ambulance Service, is so stretched. 01:34:26.539 --> 01:34:28.079 We're getting called to incidents where it might 01:34:28.079 --> 01:34:30.260 be a road traffic collision, for example. We 01:34:30.260 --> 01:34:32.479 get there and it's the gangs run someone off 01:34:32.479 --> 01:34:35.359 their bike. Or we get there and it's been essentially 01:34:35.359 --> 01:34:39.260 a drive -by shooting with a small caliber rifle 01:34:39.260 --> 01:34:41.859 and you can't see the entry rooms and no exit 01:34:41.859 --> 01:34:44.460 rooms. So it's really hard to figure out what's 01:34:44.460 --> 01:34:49.039 going on. It was really kind of like understanding 01:34:49.039 --> 01:34:51.180 what we could do, what we can implement, maybe 01:34:51.180 --> 01:34:53.699 to support the community, especially the borough 01:34:53.699 --> 01:34:56.140 that I was in at the time with Brent. And I remember 01:34:56.140 --> 01:34:58.000 driving around, we'd come past and the truck 01:34:58.000 --> 01:35:00.800 would come past the courts and there was like 01:35:00.800 --> 01:35:03.920 a defib box on the wall and it had bleed kit 01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:05.760 written on it. So I'm like, what's that? So I 01:35:05.760 --> 01:35:09.119 started doing some investigation. Basically, 01:35:09.159 --> 01:35:12.779 it's a catastrophic bleed kit, you know, tourniquet, 01:35:12.920 --> 01:35:15.640 blast bandages, Olay dressings and things like 01:35:15.640 --> 01:35:21.039 that. within this box. So I went back to the 01:35:21.039 --> 01:35:22.840 station and started thinking about it. Spoke 01:35:22.840 --> 01:35:24.359 to my borough commander at the time. He was a 01:35:24.359 --> 01:35:27.380 fantastic man called Alan Allmark. And I took 01:35:27.380 --> 01:35:29.039 the idea to him and said, look, I want to put 01:35:29.039 --> 01:35:31.560 bleed kits and defibs on the front of our fire 01:35:31.560 --> 01:35:34.619 stations for public access. And I'm going to 01:35:34.619 --> 01:35:37.140 upload them to this Good Samaritan app. And then 01:35:37.140 --> 01:35:39.659 what will happen is if you dial 999 and you need 01:35:39.659 --> 01:35:42.140 a defib or if you need a bleed kit, it will tell 01:35:42.140 --> 01:35:44.520 you where the closest is. Whether or not you'll 01:35:44.520 --> 01:35:46.659 get there in time, that catastrophic bleed is 01:35:46.659 --> 01:35:48.939 a different, but they're there. And if somebody's 01:35:48.939 --> 01:35:52.000 on duty, we will support you. That truck will 01:35:52.000 --> 01:35:53.939 come out and help. All right. So all of this 01:35:53.939 --> 01:35:56.819 stuff, we then put a training package together 01:35:56.819 --> 01:35:59.119 for the firefighters within Brent to start upskill 01:35:59.119 --> 01:36:01.199 their training to deal with catastrophic bleeds. 01:36:01.920 --> 01:36:04.039 And then essentially that organically grew into 01:36:04.039 --> 01:36:06.760 a registered charity, which is now a community 01:36:06.760 --> 01:36:09.180 interest charity. So it's a non -profit organization. 01:36:09.939 --> 01:36:12.859 And what we try to do is we try to go into the 01:36:12.859 --> 01:36:15.560 worst affected boroughs in and around London. 01:36:16.020 --> 01:36:19.590 And we basically look at all of the... the local 01:36:19.590 --> 01:36:22.770 um charities and foundations within that but 01:36:22.770 --> 01:36:25.090 which is pertinent to that borough and try to 01:36:25.090 --> 01:36:27.390 do and we put together an event essentially get 01:36:27.390 --> 01:36:29.369 everybody around so like freshers week at university 01:36:29.369 --> 01:36:31.970 or college you know lots of different lots of 01:36:31.970 --> 01:36:33.729 different things that are available to you so 01:36:33.729 --> 01:36:36.310 we're showing what's available for people which 01:36:36.310 --> 01:36:39.069 might have loved ones that are currently serving 01:36:39.069 --> 01:36:41.170 in prison but don't have that link officer or 01:36:41.170 --> 01:36:43.310 the ability to understand a system or how to 01:36:43.310 --> 01:36:46.289 get into into prison to see their loved ones 01:36:46.800 --> 01:36:49.180 We started working with a fantastic charity called 01:36:49.180 --> 01:36:52.920 Jigsaw, which do conflict resolution. Unbelievable 01:36:52.920 --> 01:36:56.260 guys. They do the mentoring and conflict resolution 01:36:56.260 --> 01:37:00.039 of these young people. He also goes out and picks 01:37:00.039 --> 01:37:03.199 these young people up, which are deemed as high 01:37:03.199 --> 01:37:05.819 risk. And he'll go out any time, day or night, 01:37:05.899 --> 01:37:07.680 Chris, and he'll go and take these kids out of 01:37:07.680 --> 01:37:10.199 these dens and bring them to a safe haven. And, 01:37:10.319 --> 01:37:14.079 yeah, incredible work. Yeah, we organically started 01:37:14.079 --> 01:37:16.039 to get together and I started to meet some really 01:37:16.039 --> 01:37:19.020 interesting people. So I think we spoke briefly, 01:37:19.159 --> 01:37:22.739 met a guy called Farron Paul. So Faz Amnesty 01:37:22.739 --> 01:37:27.000 runs his Instagram stuff. And this guy was a 01:37:27.000 --> 01:37:31.199 former gang member, I think. And he got, I might 01:37:31.199 --> 01:37:33.359 be wrong, but I'm sure he got stabbed on two 01:37:33.359 --> 01:37:36.960 separate occasions up to nine times. So had to 01:37:36.960 --> 01:37:39.460 like learn to walk again, all of that kind of 01:37:39.460 --> 01:37:43.489 stuff. And he set up. his charity faz amnesty 01:37:43.489 --> 01:37:46.369 so what they do farron paul his name is what 01:37:46.369 --> 01:37:49.069 he does is he goes out and he collects knives 01:37:49.069 --> 01:37:52.189 from these gang members and stuff but he has 01:37:52.189 --> 01:37:55.569 a system where he can contact you you can contact 01:37:55.569 --> 01:37:58.170 him through instagram so once he has that trail 01:37:58.170 --> 01:38:01.630 of conversation if that young person gets caught 01:38:01.630 --> 01:38:03.850 with a knife coming to meet him he can show that 01:38:03.850 --> 01:38:05.930 he's going to put the amnesty put in his knife 01:38:05.930 --> 01:38:11.159 into an amnesty bin and um Oh, I could be wrong 01:38:11.159 --> 01:38:12.800 with the numbers, but there was something like 01:38:12.800 --> 01:38:15.800 12 ,000 knives which had confiscated. I mean, 01:38:15.819 --> 01:38:18.420 samurai swords, zombie knives, all sorts of stuff. 01:38:18.539 --> 01:38:20.380 And then he'd obviously put them back into the 01:38:20.380 --> 01:38:24.460 police and then had them into the police stations 01:38:24.460 --> 01:38:27.760 within them boroughs. And then we met a guy called 01:38:27.760 --> 01:38:30.800 Christian Dippo who runs the Spartan Warrior 01:38:30.800 --> 01:38:35.020 Project. They do community workshops. They support 01:38:35.020 --> 01:38:37.960 young people by movement. They do all this calisthenic 01:38:37.960 --> 01:38:42.520 stuff, break dancing and tons of stuff for the 01:38:42.520 --> 01:38:45.619 community. But what was really unique with them 01:38:45.619 --> 01:38:49.539 at the time was they were taking the knives which 01:38:49.539 --> 01:38:52.460 had been handed in and confiscated and handed 01:38:52.460 --> 01:38:54.220 in to the Met Police. They were taking them, 01:38:54.340 --> 01:38:57.369 smelting them down. And then IMO, the guys at 01:38:57.369 --> 01:38:59.350 Blacksmiths would mount them down and they were 01:38:59.350 --> 01:39:02.670 making outdoor gym equipment with them. So they 01:39:02.670 --> 01:39:04.229 were making outdoor gym areas. I think they got 01:39:04.229 --> 01:39:06.770 one in Brixton, one in Croydon. And then these 01:39:06.770 --> 01:39:09.449 guys are going out off their own back, completely 01:39:09.449 --> 01:39:12.689 non -profit and putting on calisthenic training 01:39:12.689 --> 01:39:16.180 sessions. from kids all the way up to you know 01:39:16.180 --> 01:39:18.619 adults and some of the stuff they're doing is 01:39:18.619 --> 01:39:21.380 insane so organically met some really cool people 01:39:21.380 --> 01:39:23.520 so yeah the charity's been officially up and 01:39:23.520 --> 01:39:25.859 running now as a as a registered charity for 01:39:25.859 --> 01:39:29.439 about a year and yeah it's just um we're in a 01:39:29.439 --> 01:39:32.460 horrible position where we're having to be reactive 01:39:32.460 --> 01:39:36.300 because of what's happened for so long how we 01:39:36.300 --> 01:39:41.220 stop how we support these young people is um 01:39:41.220 --> 01:39:46.970 essentially These kids are groomed and targeted 01:39:46.970 --> 01:39:49.729 at a very young age. They're looked at by their 01:39:49.729 --> 01:39:51.590 gangs from outside. They're usually from single 01:39:51.590 --> 01:39:54.170 -parent families where mum might be working two 01:39:54.170 --> 01:39:57.289 jobs. She'll be coming home late, so they'll 01:39:57.289 --> 01:40:00.869 be on their own until 7, 7 .30 at night, 8 o 01:40:00.869 --> 01:40:02.649 'clock at night, whatever it may be. And they 01:40:02.649 --> 01:40:06.090 give them that family feeling that they've... 01:40:07.659 --> 01:40:10.159 You know, that they've not had a place of, you 01:40:10.159 --> 01:40:11.899 know, a place that they feel like they're part 01:40:11.899 --> 01:40:14.680 of a family. And that starts quite simply by 01:40:14.680 --> 01:40:17.220 money, buying them things. You know, these are 01:40:17.220 --> 01:40:19.039 the things that they can recognize family members 01:40:19.039 --> 01:40:20.899 when they're behaving different, coming home 01:40:20.899 --> 01:40:22.859 in new clothes and stuff. And that's how they 01:40:22.859 --> 01:40:25.020 do it. They just pull them in, pull them in. 01:40:25.520 --> 01:40:28.239 And I've heard some horrific stories, you know, 01:40:28.279 --> 01:40:31.979 of young people because they target that age 01:40:31.979 --> 01:40:34.699 group. They know that if they get caught with 01:40:34.699 --> 01:40:38.300 anything on them. by the police. The police can't 01:40:38.300 --> 01:40:40.880 do anything because they're so young. You know, 01:40:40.880 --> 01:40:42.920 they could get tagged, but they can't go into 01:40:42.920 --> 01:40:45.119 a prison or anything like that. They can go into 01:40:45.119 --> 01:40:48.420 youth establishments and they can get tagged, 01:40:48.600 --> 01:40:50.260 but there's nothing that they can really do. 01:40:50.859 --> 01:40:55.180 So I think a large problem why this has been 01:40:55.180 --> 01:40:57.720 happening is the loss of youth centres, the ability 01:40:57.720 --> 01:40:59.619 for these young people to go out and do stuff. 01:40:59.699 --> 01:41:02.590 And I'm a great advocate for sport. i've seen 01:41:02.590 --> 01:41:05.130 what it's done for so many people myself and 01:41:05.130 --> 01:41:08.970 other young people with boxing mma you know having 01:41:08.970 --> 01:41:13.229 that um being present having to be there having 01:41:13.229 --> 01:41:16.050 to communicate all these kind of things you know 01:41:16.050 --> 01:41:20.170 so that mentor that mentorship thing is essentially 01:41:20.170 --> 01:41:23.630 huge and we've got to pull that back or do something 01:41:23.630 --> 01:41:26.430 to be able to support these young people but 01:41:26.430 --> 01:41:28.989 the issues that we have with that is a lot of 01:41:28.989 --> 01:41:31.890 these kids can't leave The area that they live 01:41:31.890 --> 01:41:34.289 in, the postcode area that they live in. They 01:41:34.289 --> 01:41:36.310 can't be expected to go to a gym if it's within 01:41:36.310 --> 01:41:38.489 a certain area or a postcode because they can't 01:41:38.489 --> 01:41:40.810 cross that side of the road. And then on top 01:41:40.810 --> 01:41:42.729 of that, there's a financial obligation for them 01:41:42.729 --> 01:41:44.970 to pay to do this training. So some of these 01:41:44.970 --> 01:41:47.609 kids can't even afford it. So it's a really, 01:41:47.689 --> 01:41:50.210 really horrible environment to be growing up 01:41:50.210 --> 01:41:52.449 in for a lot of these young people. We're in 01:41:52.449 --> 01:41:54.130 London, which is supposed to be one of the most 01:41:54.130 --> 01:41:59.079 affluent cities. But yeah. There's really signs 01:41:59.079 --> 01:42:04.199 of deprived of money, food. We've got food banks 01:42:04.199 --> 01:42:06.399 and stuff now. You can see people queuing up 01:42:06.399 --> 01:42:08.460 down the road by the fire station, queuing up 01:42:08.460 --> 01:42:10.079 for food banks. And this is like, what is going 01:42:10.079 --> 01:42:13.260 on with this world? What is going on? But yeah, 01:42:13.279 --> 01:42:15.880 that was essentially it. So we grew this project. 01:42:15.979 --> 01:42:18.760 We grew this charity. We've met some fantastic 01:42:18.760 --> 01:42:21.859 people along the way. And we just try to get 01:42:21.859 --> 01:42:23.840 out in the community just to show people what 01:42:23.840 --> 01:42:28.000 they can do. what people can do with a bleed 01:42:28.000 --> 01:42:30.300 kit, what people can do without it. Unfortunately, 01:42:31.439 --> 01:42:33.399 a lot of these young people which get attacked, 01:42:33.539 --> 01:42:35.479 the first responders are usually either their 01:42:35.479 --> 01:42:38.220 friends or a member of the public which come 01:42:38.220 --> 01:42:40.420 past it. And it's given hopefully people a bit 01:42:40.420 --> 01:42:44.039 of power, a bit of confidence to interject in 01:42:44.039 --> 01:42:47.020 regards to first aid because a lot of these kids 01:42:47.020 --> 01:42:50.260 are bleeding out. You know, they're not dying 01:42:50.260 --> 01:42:52.460 from the direct stab wound. It's because they're 01:42:52.460 --> 01:42:54.439 getting a lack of treatment. We're in them critical 01:42:54.439 --> 01:42:57.640 moments of that attack and being able to, you 01:42:57.640 --> 01:42:59.399 know, stop that blood flow, that catastrophic 01:42:59.399 --> 01:43:03.600 bleed. So we've found a wonderful charity again 01:43:03.600 --> 01:43:07.260 called Your Stance. These guys are all from the 01:43:07.260 --> 01:43:09.619 Royal Free Trauma Units. They go out delivering. 01:43:10.350 --> 01:43:12.350 training free training within the community they 01:43:12.350 --> 01:43:14.689 got that or the kit where they can do the arterial 01:43:14.689 --> 01:43:17.630 bleeds how to stop it how to use things that 01:43:17.630 --> 01:43:19.369 they will have on them rather than a bleed kit 01:43:19.369 --> 01:43:23.409 shoelaces you know shirts and stuff but yeah 01:43:23.409 --> 01:43:25.930 they're really powerful and it's yeah it's been 01:43:25.930 --> 01:43:28.310 really really interesting period over the last 01:43:28.310 --> 01:43:31.489 two years and that they're um kind of the friendships 01:43:31.489 --> 01:43:33.430 that we've made and the and the people that we've 01:43:33.430 --> 01:43:38.640 met i don't remember this being a problem when 01:43:38.640 --> 01:43:41.420 I was still back home. So I'm assuming in the 01:43:41.420 --> 01:43:44.939 last, I mean, it seems like 10, 15 years, this 01:43:44.939 --> 01:43:46.859 has really exploded as far as the knife crime. 01:43:47.920 --> 01:43:51.100 When you're hearing conversations about this, 01:43:51.180 --> 01:43:54.819 what are the contributing factors that are amplifying 01:43:54.819 --> 01:43:57.579 this violence amongst so many young people in 01:43:57.579 --> 01:44:02.619 the UK? Financially, financially, it's a huge 01:44:02.619 --> 01:44:04.699 part to play. And the fact that these kids are 01:44:04.699 --> 01:44:06.579 groomed to the point that they feel like they're 01:44:06.579 --> 01:44:09.939 in a family environment, but the financial drive 01:44:09.939 --> 01:44:12.880 for kids. So I've had some really, I've had some 01:44:12.880 --> 01:44:15.239 really sticky conversations with some, with, 01:44:15.359 --> 01:44:17.819 with, with gang members, you know, just wanting 01:44:17.819 --> 01:44:20.680 to find out, wanting to talk. Like I'm, it's 01:44:20.680 --> 01:44:22.899 just sat there. They were hooded up, ballet'd 01:44:22.899 --> 01:44:25.880 up, sat in chatting away. And I'm like, look, 01:44:26.020 --> 01:44:28.180 what's going on? Why are you doing what you're 01:44:28.180 --> 01:44:30.640 doing? Why aren't you? They're like, what? This 01:44:30.640 --> 01:44:33.140 is my family. I'll do anything for them. And 01:44:33.140 --> 01:44:35.640 there's three words that always resonate. And 01:44:35.640 --> 01:44:37.039 they say, well, you let them get away with that. 01:44:37.180 --> 01:44:40.680 You can't let them get away with that. But you're 01:44:40.680 --> 01:44:42.859 sat there talking away. The guy's phone, his 01:44:42.859 --> 01:44:45.319 phone's going off, constantly going off. I'm 01:44:45.319 --> 01:44:47.819 like, go out and get a job. And they're like, 01:44:47.939 --> 01:44:51.279 why would I go and get a job? I can earn £500 01:44:51.279 --> 01:44:53.979 in 20 minutes on my phone. I'd have to go to 01:44:53.979 --> 01:44:56.220 work seven days a week. to earn that kind of 01:44:56.220 --> 01:44:58.520 money and they're just stripping in clothes they're 01:44:58.520 --> 01:45:00.720 driving around in flash cars and these are you 01:45:00.720 --> 01:45:03.000 know they share that car between a group of them 01:45:03.000 --> 01:45:05.020 so they all pay for it financially every month 01:45:05.020 --> 01:45:07.800 but i think the bottom line falls from mental 01:45:07.800 --> 01:45:11.439 mentorship keeping people in school in clubs 01:45:11.439 --> 01:45:14.020 where they've got good people around them you 01:45:14.020 --> 01:45:16.560 know we talk about that community tribe but financially 01:45:16.560 --> 01:45:19.899 it that it's yeah it's really really tough for 01:45:19.899 --> 01:45:21.180 some of these young people in the environment 01:45:21.180 --> 01:45:24.289 i mean to keep away From that, you know, that 01:45:24.289 --> 01:45:28.270 option. Behind that first layer, is it basically 01:45:28.270 --> 01:45:31.289 the illicit drug trade that's creating all this 01:45:31.289 --> 01:45:34.609 money? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, weed, cocaine, 01:45:34.810 --> 01:45:37.210 crack, that kind of things. That's how they run 01:45:37.210 --> 01:45:39.069 it around. They're very, very clever in how they 01:45:39.069 --> 01:45:43.430 do that. We've heard stories of certain buses. 01:45:43.510 --> 01:45:45.810 They take the panels off of certain buses and 01:45:45.810 --> 01:45:47.810 they can put firearms in the panel of that bus. 01:45:48.560 --> 01:45:50.579 the drugs in the bus that will travel on a certain 01:45:50.579 --> 01:45:54.479 route and they pick it all up but yeah um pretty 01:45:54.479 --> 01:45:56.640 much it's yeah it's drug it's drug related and 01:45:56.640 --> 01:46:00.640 drug driven yeah the older i get the more i'm 01:46:00.640 --> 01:46:03.079 educated by all these amazing guests the more 01:46:03.079 --> 01:46:06.840 fundamental a lot of answers to our problems 01:46:06.840 --> 01:46:10.079 become and if you look at the damage that drug 01:46:10.079 --> 01:46:13.319 prohibition has done making addiction illegal 01:46:14.250 --> 01:46:17.289 It has empowered the gangs. It has created the 01:46:17.289 --> 01:46:20.069 Crips and the Bloods and the drill culture in 01:46:20.069 --> 01:46:24.670 the UK and the cartels in Mexico. And the obvious 01:46:24.670 --> 01:46:26.970 answer, and you look at Portugal as a perfect 01:46:26.970 --> 01:46:30.729 example, is if you take addiction, you take addicts 01:46:30.729 --> 01:46:32.729 and you put them in the hands of the medical 01:46:32.729 --> 01:46:35.850 community and you fully fund that. So you give 01:46:35.850 --> 01:46:37.989 them addiction counseling, mental health counseling, 01:46:38.189 --> 01:46:42.159 housing, job creation. and you get people from 01:46:42.159 --> 01:46:44.659 being an addict and using government support 01:46:44.659 --> 01:46:48.039 to being a healthy taxpaying member of society, 01:46:48.399 --> 01:46:51.699 you cut the head off the snake because it's supply 01:46:51.699 --> 01:46:54.380 and demand at its most fundamental level. And 01:46:54.380 --> 01:46:56.520 prostitution and some of these other things are 01:46:56.520 --> 01:46:58.520 all tied into that as well. If you haven't got 01:46:58.520 --> 01:47:02.000 strung out young boys and girls, you're not going 01:47:02.000 --> 01:47:05.039 to have anywhere near as many people willing 01:47:05.039 --> 01:47:08.170 to sell their body for sex either. This is what 01:47:08.170 --> 01:47:10.189 kills me is that there are so many proactive 01:47:10.189 --> 01:47:12.989 solutions, but they take courage from real leadership 01:47:12.989 --> 01:47:16.109 that really would turn this around. And if you 01:47:16.109 --> 01:47:18.350 had young people growing up, but selling drugs 01:47:18.350 --> 01:47:20.850 simply just wasn't an option because there's 01:47:20.850 --> 01:47:23.729 no there's no demand because all the addicts 01:47:23.729 --> 01:47:25.609 are in the hands of the medical community, either 01:47:25.609 --> 01:47:28.609 healing or getting, you know, sustaining through 01:47:28.609 --> 01:47:34.810 medically distributed ability to get their drugs 01:47:34.810 --> 01:47:37.380 like methadone, for example. Then you've taken 01:47:37.380 --> 01:47:39.939 you've literally cut the legs off the underworld. 01:47:40.140 --> 01:47:42.119 And we saw that with alcohol prohibition, with 01:47:42.119 --> 01:47:45.939 Al Capone, you know, with alcohol in the beginning 01:47:45.939 --> 01:47:49.340 of the 1900s in the US. It was an absolute disaster 01:47:49.340 --> 01:47:53.439 when they legalized the alcohol again. Don't 01:47:53.439 --> 01:47:55.239 get me wrong. Alcohol is not a great drug. We 01:47:55.239 --> 01:47:58.319 all know that. But you didn't see people bootlegging 01:47:58.319 --> 01:48:00.439 anymore. Didn't see gangs murdering each other 01:48:00.439 --> 01:48:03.319 over. Jack Daniels or Bell Scotch, you know what 01:48:03.319 --> 01:48:06.300 I mean? So I think this is a massive conversation. 01:48:06.399 --> 01:48:09.479 If we took the power away from the illicit drug 01:48:09.479 --> 01:48:13.079 trade, it would have such an immense impact for 01:48:13.079 --> 01:48:16.319 the US, for the UK and other places that still 01:48:16.319 --> 01:48:19.380 believe in the fucking massive failure that is 01:48:19.380 --> 01:48:24.220 the air quotes war on drugs. Yeah, it's terrible. 01:48:24.840 --> 01:48:28.380 And I couldn't have said it any better, to be 01:48:28.380 --> 01:48:31.350 perfectly honest with you. With addiction and 01:48:31.350 --> 01:48:33.949 stuff like that, it usually comes with a mental 01:48:33.949 --> 01:48:36.649 health problem. Treat the problem, not the addiction. 01:48:36.869 --> 01:48:39.489 The problem is probably their childhood trauma, 01:48:39.609 --> 01:48:40.810 things that they've gone through in their life 01:48:40.810 --> 01:48:42.250 to put them in the position that they're in. 01:48:42.369 --> 01:48:44.729 A lot of these people, don't get me wrong, there's 01:48:44.729 --> 01:48:47.210 socially, there's people that are going out doing 01:48:47.210 --> 01:48:50.390 these drugs and they're getting supplied them. 01:48:50.489 --> 01:48:54.909 But you are right, start treating the people 01:48:54.909 --> 01:48:57.529 rather than them having that horrible... kind 01:48:57.529 --> 01:48:59.989 of like looked at as a as as an addict that they're 01:48:59.989 --> 01:49:01.649 dirty that they're horrible people they're not 01:49:01.649 --> 01:49:04.569 i've not met one i've not met one addict through 01:49:04.569 --> 01:49:06.710 my life that's a nasty person or horrible person 01:49:06.710 --> 01:49:09.789 they're there because of the conflict that they've 01:49:09.789 --> 01:49:11.489 had through their through their young life you 01:49:11.489 --> 01:49:14.630 know um but that's essentially that's what we 01:49:14.630 --> 01:49:16.989 need to do i mean decriminal we've been talking 01:49:16.989 --> 01:49:19.210 about decriminalizing weed for for years in the 01:49:19.210 --> 01:49:21.250 uk and it keeps getting knocked back and the 01:49:21.250 --> 01:49:24.369 biggest thing with that Who's one of the largest 01:49:24.369 --> 01:49:26.090 medical suppliers of medical -grade marijuana 01:49:26.090 --> 01:49:31.430 in the world? The UK. Oh, really? Yeah, but you 01:49:31.430 --> 01:49:33.869 can't get medical -grade marijuana for people 01:49:33.869 --> 01:49:35.630 to treat people in this country. It's starting 01:49:35.630 --> 01:49:37.810 to loosen up now, but we are one of the biggest 01:49:37.810 --> 01:49:40.909 suppliers. That's crazy. It's bonkers, right? 01:49:41.569 --> 01:49:45.829 Yeah. It's bonkers. You know, it beggars belief. 01:49:46.109 --> 01:49:50.369 It really is. Yeah. It really is, but... Yeah, 01:49:50.430 --> 01:49:52.960 it's just, I mean, there's so many... you know 01:49:52.960 --> 01:49:54.819 reasons why you should you know what i mean and 01:49:54.819 --> 01:49:57.060 you know people ask for studies in the fire service 01:49:57.060 --> 01:49:58.680 you know with the sleep research for example 01:49:58.680 --> 01:50:00.859 oh can you show us studies and there's a certain 01:50:00.859 --> 01:50:02.880 point where it's just common sense like you know 01:50:02.880 --> 01:50:05.060 the hours that they work in this country like 01:50:05.060 --> 01:50:08.060 okay you got without any overtime at all 56 hour 01:50:08.060 --> 01:50:11.180 week and a 42 hour week do you need to study 01:50:11.180 --> 01:50:13.920 to show you that a 42 hour week is going to be 01:50:13.920 --> 01:50:18.380 healthier no you don't same in reverse Do we 01:50:18.380 --> 01:50:22.779 need any more studies to show that drug prohibition 01:50:22.779 --> 01:50:25.779 does not work? We've got an 80 -year longitudinal 01:50:25.779 --> 01:50:28.960 study that has just got worse and worse. Homelessness, 01:50:28.960 --> 01:50:32.760 prostitution, addiction, overdoses, the gang 01:50:32.760 --> 01:50:35.560 killings, all of these, the drill culture, that 01:50:35.560 --> 01:50:39.220 all stems from empowering the underworld through 01:50:39.220 --> 01:50:41.960 the illicit drug trade. And then you have the 01:50:41.960 --> 01:50:43.920 audacity of people saying, well, the problem 01:50:43.920 --> 01:50:45.840 is these broken homes. Well, why do you think 01:50:45.840 --> 01:50:48.670 these homes are fucking broken? Have a look into 01:50:48.670 --> 01:50:51.210 the backstory of their homes. It's probably addiction, 01:50:51.430 --> 01:50:54.829 alcoholism. So if again, back to the dominoes, 01:50:54.829 --> 01:50:57.989 if we stop this generational trauma, then the 01:50:57.989 --> 01:51:00.909 next generation isn't going to be exposed to 01:51:00.909 --> 01:51:03.050 these broken homes anymore. If we heal this current 01:51:03.050 --> 01:51:06.180 generation. They'll hopefully be the loving mothers 01:51:06.180 --> 01:51:08.659 and fathers that create this community. You'll 01:51:08.659 --> 01:51:11.020 have mentors in the community putting on boxing 01:51:11.020 --> 01:51:14.680 tournaments and football games and CrossFit and 01:51:14.680 --> 01:51:16.659 all that stuff. And now you've got people working 01:51:16.659 --> 01:51:19.720 together and the mentors aren't the dope dealers 01:51:19.720 --> 01:51:22.720 anymore. The mentors are the cops and the firefighters 01:51:22.720 --> 01:51:25.420 and the teachers and the PE teachers. And now 01:51:25.420 --> 01:51:27.159 all of a sudden these kids are going back down 01:51:27.159 --> 01:51:30.199 a good path again. But it's so blatantly obvious. 01:51:30.279 --> 01:51:32.100 But like you said, when it comes to actually 01:51:32.100 --> 01:51:34.750 getting the people that we pay. in the positions 01:51:34.750 --> 01:51:37.489 to actually make the change there's nothing but 01:51:37.489 --> 01:51:41.050 moral cowardice and it nauseates me yeah yeah 01:51:41.050 --> 01:51:43.909 for sure i mean i can only speak for what's happening 01:51:43.909 --> 01:51:45.970 in london but it's happening in cities all around 01:51:45.970 --> 01:51:51.510 the uk um but uh essentially The issue in London 01:51:51.510 --> 01:51:53.489 is this has been going on since the late 90s, 01:51:53.489 --> 01:51:55.609 the postcode wars, you know, and nothing was 01:51:55.609 --> 01:51:57.470 done then. These communities weren't supported. 01:51:57.609 --> 01:52:01.050 Then they started taking away all the youth clubs 01:52:01.050 --> 01:52:04.489 and things like that. And then you put a mayor 01:52:04.489 --> 01:52:09.010 in place, Sadiq Khan, who we've taken a blueprint 01:52:09.010 --> 01:52:11.970 of what they did in Glasgow and Scotland to help 01:52:11.970 --> 01:52:16.170 with. this um the youth violence and knife crime 01:52:16.170 --> 01:52:18.470 if you like the violence reduction unit so that's 01:52:18.470 --> 01:52:20.569 that blueprint from glasgow has come down to 01:52:20.569 --> 01:52:22.770 london and we're trying to implement that in 01:52:22.770 --> 01:52:26.810 london to reduce drug use add addiction all these 01:52:26.810 --> 01:52:30.390 kind of things but what grates me what's grips 01:52:30.390 --> 01:52:33.810 my is you've got a you've got a essentially a 01:52:33.810 --> 01:52:37.189 government and a mayor that is able to eradicate 01:52:37.189 --> 01:52:41.159 a dog breed within months of three or four attacks, 01:52:41.380 --> 01:52:43.520 when essentially there's no such thing as a bad 01:52:43.520 --> 01:52:47.239 dog, it's a bad owner. And we lose a breed of 01:52:47.239 --> 01:52:50.060 dog within a period of time. The financial implications 01:52:50.060 --> 01:52:54.840 for that, instead of educating people, taking 01:52:54.840 --> 01:52:59.119 these dogs or doing something, I mean, there's 01:52:59.119 --> 01:53:02.260 so many options available, either than eradicating 01:53:02.260 --> 01:53:06.720 a breed of animal. that money that finances where 01:53:06.720 --> 01:53:08.859 is that you know why is that not getting pushed 01:53:08.859 --> 01:53:10.779 back into our communities why is that not getting 01:53:10.779 --> 01:53:14.720 rebuilding youth you know youth homes and stuff 01:53:14.720 --> 01:53:18.220 like that it's just yeah it's it's yeah it makes 01:53:18.220 --> 01:53:21.220 me angry it does really grip my mate really does 01:53:21.220 --> 01:53:24.119 well using the dogs as an example we had german 01:53:24.119 --> 01:53:26.460 shepherds my whole life i was just talking to 01:53:26.460 --> 01:53:29.760 ash who i interviewed this morning um yeah sas 01:53:29.760 --> 01:53:34.020 what the tier one operator i guess um But that 01:53:34.020 --> 01:53:37.300 was one of his lifelines, was his dog. And we 01:53:37.300 --> 01:53:39.560 had German Shepherds, arguably people could say 01:53:39.560 --> 01:53:42.640 a dangerous breed, my whole life as a kid all 01:53:42.640 --> 01:53:44.000 the way through. So there's one sitting outside 01:53:44.000 --> 01:53:47.000 my door right now. The only time I've ever seen 01:53:47.000 --> 01:53:49.859 an issue is someone, my dad was a vet, a veterinary 01:53:49.859 --> 01:53:53.640 surgeon. Someone gave him, I think, I think pudding 01:53:53.640 --> 01:53:56.930 was like. a year old so they'd had this dog for 01:53:56.930 --> 01:53:59.149 a while they didn't want it anymore they gave 01:53:59.149 --> 01:54:01.310 it to my dad and i go up to the fields one day 01:54:01.310 --> 01:54:03.489 and there's like four dead sheep lying in there 01:54:03.489 --> 01:54:07.029 and the german shepherd had killed them all the 01:54:07.029 --> 01:54:09.170 only difference between all the different dogs 01:54:09.170 --> 01:54:11.949 that we had in that one was obviously the way 01:54:11.949 --> 01:54:14.210 that they were treated in in their early life 01:54:14.210 --> 01:54:17.880 it's no different with people We all start off, 01:54:17.939 --> 01:54:20.180 you know, if you and me and a bunch of murderers 01:54:20.180 --> 01:54:23.100 and a bunch of, you know, burglars and drug addicts 01:54:23.100 --> 01:54:26.039 and homeless people were all two years old in 01:54:26.039 --> 01:54:28.939 a kindergarten, we would all be laughing and 01:54:28.939 --> 01:54:30.880 playing with crayons and kicking the ball to 01:54:30.880 --> 01:54:33.640 each other. That's how we all start. It's what 01:54:33.640 --> 01:54:36.819 happens to us. And then the mentors, good or 01:54:36.819 --> 01:54:39.060 bad, that are surrounded, you know, that are 01:54:39.060 --> 01:54:42.979 put in front of us that determine whether James 01:54:42.979 --> 01:54:45.340 and Jason become firefighters or James and Jason 01:54:45.340 --> 01:54:48.699 end up in prison. It's that simple. So, you know, 01:54:48.720 --> 01:54:51.039 the dog is a great analogy of what needs to happen 01:54:51.039 --> 01:54:54.859 in the UK. You don't eradicate all white people 01:54:54.859 --> 01:54:58.300 because white people steal. You figure out what 01:54:58.300 --> 01:55:00.420 happened to the white people that made them steal. 01:55:00.500 --> 01:55:04.460 It's the same exact concept. Yeah, it's insane. 01:55:04.699 --> 01:55:08.380 And, you know, we have these conversations. I 01:55:08.380 --> 01:55:11.380 do a lot, obviously, still within the borough 01:55:11.380 --> 01:55:13.300 and our contextual safeguarding meetings. I sit 01:55:13.300 --> 01:55:15.079 in with them, with the Met Police, and their 01:55:15.079 --> 01:55:17.899 relationship is completely fractured with a community. 01:55:18.100 --> 01:55:21.300 That's going to take years and years and years 01:55:21.300 --> 01:55:23.420 for them to be able to pull that back. Their 01:55:23.420 --> 01:55:27.659 attrition rate with... with recruitment. I mean, 01:55:27.680 --> 01:55:29.720 they've got an open recruitment policy. It runs 01:55:29.720 --> 01:55:32.260 all year round. And I think the last time I spoke 01:55:32.260 --> 01:55:34.619 to a Met police officer, they said within a period 01:55:34.619 --> 01:55:36.439 of about four or five months, they'd have four 01:55:36.439 --> 01:55:38.920 applicants. So they're losing people. Metropolitan 01:55:38.920 --> 01:55:42.899 police, as in the entire city of London? Yes. 01:55:43.039 --> 01:55:47.989 Jesus Christ. Yeah, it's because they are under 01:55:47.989 --> 01:55:51.109 the microscope constantly. They can't do their 01:55:51.109 --> 01:55:53.390 jobs properly. They've got body cams. They're 01:55:53.390 --> 01:55:56.449 expected to give you a report on everything they 01:55:56.449 --> 01:56:01.010 do. And the communities are in such a state of 01:56:01.010 --> 01:56:03.670 array that the smallest thing that they can say 01:56:03.670 --> 01:56:06.979 will be investigated. So they can't, you know, 01:56:07.000 --> 01:56:10.039 I remember growing up, I was terrified of the 01:56:10.039 --> 01:56:12.199 police. I can remember stepping out in the road 01:56:12.199 --> 01:56:14.199 once and a police car come around the corner, 01:56:14.260 --> 01:56:15.819 didn't put his indicator. And I went, yeah, you 01:56:15.819 --> 01:56:18.039 can put your indicator on, mate. Coppers got 01:56:18.039 --> 01:56:19.699 out of the car, walked around, slapped me around 01:56:19.699 --> 01:56:25.100 the head. Yeah, I'm like, why do that again? 01:56:25.840 --> 01:56:29.760 You know, but there's no, it's, yeah, it's difficult, 01:56:30.039 --> 01:56:33.000 isn't it? It's really difficult, but. The police 01:56:33.000 --> 01:56:35.180 are in a real bad state, a real bad state. So 01:56:35.180 --> 01:56:39.640 the LAS really need funding and really need support. 01:56:39.739 --> 01:56:42.300 How they do that, God only knows. It's about 01:56:42.300 --> 01:56:44.520 bringing that relationship back with the community. 01:56:45.300 --> 01:56:47.060 It's going to take them time, a lot of time. 01:56:47.659 --> 01:56:49.680 Well, this is circling all the way back to the 01:56:49.680 --> 01:56:51.500 beginning of our conversation with where that 01:56:51.500 --> 01:56:54.140 bar is set and that attracting the right people. 01:56:54.260 --> 01:56:56.060 Because I just was on the phone to someone who's 01:56:56.060 --> 01:56:59.000 out of our profession, but she's in HR and she's 01:56:59.000 --> 01:57:02.020 married to a... firefighter turned cop here in 01:57:02.020 --> 01:57:05.000 the US. And she was, you know, saying, oh, they 01:57:05.000 --> 01:57:06.539 said one of the problems is, you know, the kids 01:57:06.539 --> 01:57:08.039 today don't want to work. And I'm like, well, 01:57:08.060 --> 01:57:10.800 you know, let me correct you on that. The problem 01:57:10.800 --> 01:57:13.920 is that most young people today value their physical 01:57:13.920 --> 01:57:16.640 health, their mental health, their relationships. 01:57:17.420 --> 01:57:20.140 And so when they look at an organization that 01:57:20.140 --> 01:57:22.600 constantly throws them under the bus or an organization 01:57:22.600 --> 01:57:25.710 that doesn't address in my country, the This 01:57:25.710 --> 01:57:27.930 horrendous lack of recruitment and therefore 01:57:27.930 --> 01:57:30.430 forced overtime, therefore people are never home, 01:57:30.550 --> 01:57:32.909 therefore there's divorces and fractured relationships 01:57:32.909 --> 01:57:35.430 with children. This young generation is going, 01:57:35.529 --> 01:57:37.670 well, I'd love to be a cop or a firefighter, 01:57:37.670 --> 01:57:39.510 but that working environment doesn't look good. 01:57:39.569 --> 01:57:41.470 And that organization clearly doesn't seem to 01:57:41.470 --> 01:57:44.109 support their people. I'm going to go be a welder. 01:57:44.130 --> 01:57:45.949 I'm going to go into carpentry. I still want 01:57:45.949 --> 01:57:48.710 to work with my hands. I still want to do all 01:57:48.710 --> 01:57:50.189 the things that a firefighter or a cop would 01:57:50.189 --> 01:57:52.520 do. I would love to serve, but that's not the 01:57:52.520 --> 01:57:56.300 organization. So it's not about looking for different 01:57:56.300 --> 01:57:58.140 types of candidates. It's like, well, then looking 01:57:58.140 --> 01:57:59.560 in the mirror and go, well, what are we doing 01:57:59.560 --> 01:58:03.779 wrong? And having a high bar in London police, 01:58:03.979 --> 01:58:07.380 having a fitness standard, having then the support, 01:58:07.640 --> 01:58:09.800 the training, the physical training, the defensive 01:58:09.800 --> 01:58:13.840 tactics, the ability maybe for different ways 01:58:13.840 --> 01:58:18.399 to address the increasing level of violence and 01:58:18.399 --> 01:58:20.939 weapons even in the UK. I mean, all these areas. 01:58:21.939 --> 01:58:25.239 I've got a friend who was a former armed police 01:58:25.239 --> 01:58:28.439 in London. And again, every time something happened, 01:58:28.520 --> 01:58:30.939 it was always... pictured as their fault until 01:58:30.939 --> 01:58:33.100 they could prove otherwise you know guilty until 01:58:33.100 --> 01:58:36.140 proven innocent so the way that you attract young 01:58:36.140 --> 01:58:39.079 people back into our professions is the first 01:58:39.079 --> 01:58:40.319 thing you got to show that you're actually going 01:58:40.319 --> 01:58:42.760 to support them but if you're just cowing you 01:58:42.760 --> 01:58:45.140 know cow tailing to every single politician that 01:58:45.140 --> 01:58:47.779 sticks their neck out and then you know now you've 01:58:47.779 --> 01:58:49.739 got four applicants what is going to happen in 01:58:49.739 --> 01:58:51.779 the city of london it's just going to empower 01:58:51.779 --> 01:58:54.819 you know the bad people of the city and now the 01:58:54.819 --> 01:58:56.520 residents are going to be less safe than they 01:58:56.520 --> 01:59:02.720 ever were before Yeah, it's mad. I mean, we get 01:59:02.720 --> 01:59:05.180 a lot of, obviously, with the incidents that 01:59:05.180 --> 01:59:07.779 we turn up to, the police arriving and the abuse 01:59:07.779 --> 01:59:11.880 that they get. I'm like, what are you doing? 01:59:12.260 --> 01:59:16.640 How do you think that's appropriate? Where has 01:59:16.640 --> 01:59:20.239 that come from? Where is that disdain and that 01:59:20.239 --> 01:59:24.739 belief that they're there to do you harm constantly? 01:59:24.779 --> 01:59:27.460 I mean, it's been bred over time. I understand. 01:59:28.270 --> 01:59:30.770 you know, the backstory to some of it. But you 01:59:30.770 --> 01:59:32.310 don't know that individual. They're there to 01:59:32.310 --> 01:59:34.949 try and help and support your community on what's 01:59:34.949 --> 01:59:36.770 going on and try and catch a bad guy, essentially, 01:59:36.789 --> 01:59:39.090 or a bad person and take them off the street. 01:59:39.170 --> 01:59:42.109 And you're doing what you're doing to them. You 01:59:42.109 --> 01:59:45.449 know, it's mad. It's mad. They have a tremendously 01:59:45.449 --> 01:59:48.390 difficult job. I dock my hat to the guys in the 01:59:48.390 --> 01:59:50.350 Met Police at the moment on what they've got 01:59:50.350 --> 01:59:53.090 to go through, definitely. Absolutely. But I 01:59:53.090 --> 01:59:54.970 think it's conversations like this from the people. 01:59:55.449 --> 01:59:57.310 on the ground level, you know, that are doing 01:59:57.310 --> 01:59:59.409 the job, that are seeing, you know, like now 01:59:59.409 --> 02:00:02.390 on the other side of a profession, seeing what's 02:00:02.390 --> 02:00:04.529 happening on a more macro level, you know, nationally 02:00:04.529 --> 02:00:06.470 and internationally. And there's these common 02:00:06.470 --> 02:00:09.670 reoccurring themes that do have solutions, but 02:00:09.670 --> 02:00:12.289 it takes courage in positions of leadership. 02:00:13.250 --> 02:00:15.329 With that being said, because we've been chatting 02:00:15.329 --> 02:00:17.050 for two hours now, I want to be mindful of your 02:00:17.050 --> 02:00:19.649 time. I want to throw some quick closing questions 02:00:19.649 --> 02:00:22.090 at you, if that's okay. Yes. All right. Yeah, 02:00:22.090 --> 02:00:24.649 correct. First one I love to ask, is there a 02:00:24.649 --> 02:00:27.069 book or are there books that you love to recommend? 02:00:27.149 --> 02:00:29.569 It can be related to our discussion today or 02:00:29.569 --> 02:00:34.590 completely unrelated. I'm not a big reader of 02:00:34.590 --> 02:00:38.729 books. For me, it's got to be something which 02:00:38.729 --> 02:00:43.010 is quite realistic. Something that's happened 02:00:43.010 --> 02:00:44.869 or a biography, something like that. I did read 02:00:44.869 --> 02:00:46.970 a book fairly recently by Dr. Matthew Walker. 02:00:47.590 --> 02:00:51.039 Have you heard of him? Why We Sleep? Yeah. Yeah. 02:00:51.300 --> 02:00:54.539 Listen to him on some podcasts. Incredible. I've 02:00:54.539 --> 02:00:58.579 thoroughly enjoyed that. And Captain Scott is 02:00:58.579 --> 02:01:02.460 something I read quite recently with, it's Sir 02:01:02.460 --> 02:01:08.180 Ranulf Fiennes kind of take on their document. 02:01:08.340 --> 02:01:10.699 He's Captain Scott's documentation on how they 02:01:10.699 --> 02:01:14.039 live. So him being an explorer, him being in 02:01:14.039 --> 02:01:17.260 them positions of, you know, detriment and in. 02:01:17.579 --> 02:01:19.920 tough times and him applying his knowledge and 02:01:19.920 --> 02:01:22.500 his decision making to what he's found within 02:01:22.500 --> 02:01:24.680 in their reports and books and that's a pretty 02:01:24.680 --> 02:01:27.819 cool book so yeah that's probably yeah probably 02:01:27.819 --> 02:01:29.659 the only two books recently a note that i've 02:01:29.659 --> 02:01:33.399 read brilliant what about tv documentary or films 02:01:33.399 --> 02:01:38.539 oh wow james oh my god we have this discussion 02:01:38.539 --> 02:01:40.479 around the mess table and this is a tremendously 02:01:40.479 --> 02:01:42.239 difficult question to ask because there's just 02:01:42.239 --> 02:01:47.739 too much out there documentary wise um The Last 02:01:47.739 --> 02:01:51.239 Dance about Michael Jordan? Yeah. Fantastic documentary. 02:01:51.640 --> 02:01:56.180 He's just, his ability to compete, his leadership 02:01:56.180 --> 02:01:59.960 style, he's, you know, it was like... If you're 02:01:59.960 --> 02:02:01.640 part of this team, you're coming along with me. 02:02:01.720 --> 02:02:03.800 And that discussion of who's the GOAT, whether 02:02:03.800 --> 02:02:05.960 it's LeBron James or whether it's Michael Jordan, 02:02:06.079 --> 02:02:08.739 it's like Michael Jordan's got six rings with 02:02:08.739 --> 02:02:12.079 the same team, you know. He pulled them through 02:02:12.079 --> 02:02:14.479 some of these players. And then what's sad as 02:02:14.479 --> 02:02:17.079 well is the relationships that they have now. 02:02:17.479 --> 02:02:19.340 You know, Scottie Pippen and his relationship 02:02:19.340 --> 02:02:21.619 with Michael Jordan. That's quite sad to see. 02:02:21.720 --> 02:02:25.060 But an ultimate competitor, you know, the drive 02:02:25.060 --> 02:02:28.640 and dedication, the obsessiveness that you know 02:02:28.640 --> 02:02:31.109 that you have. to be good at anything like on 02:02:31.109 --> 02:02:34.770 that level, you've got to be obsessed with it. 02:02:34.890 --> 02:02:38.189 And yes, that's a tremendous, tremendous documentary. 02:02:39.250 --> 02:02:44.109 Movies, Saving Private Ryan, Shawshank Redemption, 02:02:44.310 --> 02:02:47.229 you know, all of them kind of stuff. I still 02:02:47.229 --> 02:02:49.510 watch them to this day. So yeah, that'll be the 02:02:49.510 --> 02:02:52.810 movies. That'll be the movies. Great films. It's 02:02:52.810 --> 02:02:55.369 funny, I was struck by the same thing. On paper, 02:02:55.449 --> 02:02:57.569 Michael Jordan obviously has a lot of wealth, 02:02:57.729 --> 02:03:01.229 a lot of statistics showing success in his basketball 02:03:01.229 --> 02:03:05.390 team. But the same way I talk a lot about what 02:03:05.390 --> 02:03:08.470 we do to youth athletes in America, meaning they 02:03:08.470 --> 02:03:11.050 go and win high schools or colleges, you know, 02:03:11.069 --> 02:03:13.810 games, championships, but then they get hurt 02:03:13.810 --> 02:03:16.970 and it's detrimental ultimately to their longevity 02:03:16.970 --> 02:03:20.970 and their mental health. It's the same with that. 02:03:21.649 --> 02:03:23.770 Ultimately, when you take a step back, what was 02:03:23.770 --> 02:03:26.010 more important, winning those basketball games 02:03:26.010 --> 02:03:29.989 and being rich or all of the broken or fractured 02:03:29.989 --> 02:03:32.529 relationships that you never really had because 02:03:32.529 --> 02:03:35.270 the points were more important than the person? 02:03:35.430 --> 02:03:39.069 And it's an interesting thing to ponder. It definitely 02:03:39.069 --> 02:03:41.010 is. When you watch that documentary and you see 02:03:41.010 --> 02:03:47.710 the times he spent on his own in solitude. in 02:03:47.710 --> 02:03:50.590 hotels and thousands of people outside, you know, 02:03:50.590 --> 02:03:53.409 I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it to be that 02:03:53.409 --> 02:03:59.050 focused and to be that driven. I mean, wow. And 02:03:59.050 --> 02:04:01.670 then the film, you know, the Nike film as well, 02:04:01.710 --> 02:04:04.630 his mum, how powerful she was in the discussions 02:04:04.630 --> 02:04:06.789 with Nike and Adidas to get that Nike go over 02:04:06.789 --> 02:04:08.829 the line is pretty spectacular too. So yeah, 02:04:08.949 --> 02:04:12.109 incredible stories. I wonder if it was ever enough. 02:04:13.100 --> 02:04:15.880 We talked about, you know, always wanting to 02:04:15.880 --> 02:04:18.460 be told I love you or, you know, I'm proud of 02:04:18.460 --> 02:04:21.899 you by a parent or a mentor. So many of us in 02:04:21.899 --> 02:04:24.840 high performing, you know, roles, whether it's 02:04:24.840 --> 02:04:27.260 in uniform, whether it's in sports, there's a 02:04:27.260 --> 02:04:29.000 lot of times there's an element of, you know, 02:04:29.000 --> 02:04:30.899 not feeling like you are enough, whether it's 02:04:30.899 --> 02:04:32.979 chasing the love of a parent, whether it's, you 02:04:32.979 --> 02:04:35.539 know, low self -esteem. I wonder if he ever felt 02:04:35.539 --> 02:04:37.699 like it was enough. I bet you the answer is no. 02:04:39.020 --> 02:04:41.560 Yeah, do you know what that puts me back to a 02:04:41.560 --> 02:04:44.560 clip I watched not so long ago? And it's a journalist 02:04:44.560 --> 02:04:47.640 asking Mike Tyson, if Gus D 'Amato was here today, 02:04:47.920 --> 02:04:51.479 what would you say to him? And he stops and he 02:04:51.479 --> 02:04:55.439 pauses and it gives you goosebumps. Because he 02:04:55.439 --> 02:04:57.039 never got to see him be the world champ, did 02:04:57.039 --> 02:05:01.500 he? And he said, did I do good? Did I do good? 02:05:01.619 --> 02:05:04.239 Did I do right? And just, you know, that man 02:05:04.239 --> 02:05:09.130 is like... just in stature, just in aura to see 02:05:09.130 --> 02:05:11.250 that and see him break down. And it simply is 02:05:11.250 --> 02:05:13.710 that validation from that human being that pulled 02:05:13.710 --> 02:05:15.949 him away from where he was going and gave him 02:05:15.949 --> 02:05:19.449 what he did. Incredibly powerful, really powerful. 02:05:19.989 --> 02:05:22.729 Absolutely. Well, speaking of great people, is 02:05:22.729 --> 02:05:24.750 there a person that you recommend to come on 02:05:24.750 --> 02:05:27.829 this podcast as a guest to speak to the first 02:05:27.829 --> 02:05:29.890 responders, military and associated professions 02:05:29.890 --> 02:05:35.680 of the world? so i listened to a podcast not 02:05:35.680 --> 02:05:39.079 so long ago with a tier one operator christian 02:05:39.079 --> 02:05:41.020 craighead you heard his story if you could get 02:05:41.020 --> 02:05:43.279 hold of that guy yeah i haven't i haven't got 02:05:43.279 --> 02:05:44.539 a connection with him he was the one that was 02:05:44.539 --> 02:05:46.420 in nairobi when he went into that shopping mall 02:05:46.420 --> 02:05:50.579 yes yeah obi -wan nairobi um but he incredible 02:05:50.579 --> 02:05:55.130 incredible guy um but I think if you want a real 02:05:55.130 --> 02:05:57.449 in -depth look in what's going on in London with 02:05:57.449 --> 02:05:59.649 relation to youth violence and youth crime and 02:05:59.649 --> 02:06:04.210 stuff, I would definitely, definitely put forward 02:06:04.210 --> 02:06:07.449 Christian Dipo from the Spartan Project. The 02:06:07.449 --> 02:06:10.770 work that he's doing, he's got a really good, 02:06:10.890 --> 02:06:14.510 he's got a pretty cool story too. And then obviously 02:06:14.510 --> 02:06:18.729 Farron Paul and his FAS Amnesty. I mean, they 02:06:18.729 --> 02:06:21.189 could give you a really good in -depth. you know 02:06:21.189 --> 02:06:23.409 their kind of point of view on what's going on 02:06:23.409 --> 02:06:26.250 and a really detailed picture of of um youth 02:06:26.250 --> 02:06:28.729 violence and stuff what's going on in in london 02:06:28.729 --> 02:06:31.470 at the moment farron paul he gets all up the 02:06:31.470 --> 02:06:33.449 country going up to west mids and everything 02:06:33.449 --> 02:06:36.069 to collect knives and stuff so i mean yeah it 02:06:36.069 --> 02:06:38.270 got really powerful what they're doing in the 02:06:38.270 --> 02:06:40.210 community in and around london for sure brilliant 02:06:40.210 --> 02:06:42.270 if you're able to help me with any of those connections 02:06:42.270 --> 02:06:45.159 i'd love to get them Yeah, for sure. Definitely. 02:06:45.399 --> 02:06:47.260 Definitely. Fantastic. All right. Well, then 02:06:47.260 --> 02:06:48.960 the last question before we make sure everyone 02:06:48.960 --> 02:06:52.199 knows where to find you and your nonprofit, what 02:06:52.199 --> 02:06:56.960 do you do to decompress? Like most people here, 02:06:57.039 --> 02:06:59.000 unfortunately for me, it's still the old traditional 02:06:59.000 --> 02:07:03.020 hoodie on, headphones on, heavy bag. No time 02:07:03.020 --> 02:07:06.819 limit. Just hit it away. Up and down, up and 02:07:06.819 --> 02:07:10.699 down. You know, I'm 48 this coming year, and 02:07:10.699 --> 02:07:13.579 I still try to keep that fast twitch. My fiber's 02:07:13.579 --> 02:07:16.060 going. It's getting harder, but I'm still swinging 02:07:16.060 --> 02:07:17.899 in there, keeping it with the youngsters. So 02:07:17.899 --> 02:07:21.220 the gym for me. I actually, after hearing you 02:07:21.220 --> 02:07:24.439 quite recently, went to the gym and went, I'm 02:07:24.439 --> 02:07:27.119 going to do the 343. I just set myself up in 02:07:27.119 --> 02:07:32.159 the gym. Boy, you're a fit man. James, I blasted 02:07:32.159 --> 02:07:34.800 that. I couldn't walk for about three days afterwards. 02:07:35.199 --> 02:07:39.199 Was that the Chad 1000, the steps? No, the 343, 02:07:39.300 --> 02:07:44.100 so the 100 deadlifts, the 100s. Oh, you're talking 02:07:44.100 --> 02:07:46.000 about the Murph, you mean. Was it the Murph? 02:07:46.079 --> 02:07:49.100 Yeah, the Murph, yeah. Yeah, the 100 deadlifts, 02:07:49.100 --> 02:07:53.260 100 pow. Yeah. And then the burpees, man. Who 02:07:53.260 --> 02:07:56.079 fought that up? yeah no so that was yeah you're 02:07:56.079 --> 02:07:58.060 talking about an old was it one of the old workouts 02:07:58.060 --> 02:07:59.659 that we put i can't remember now because there's 02:07:59.659 --> 02:08:01.640 so many different versions of it but yeah there's 02:08:01.640 --> 02:08:03.819 i love those ones because it's you know it's 02:08:03.819 --> 02:08:06.180 not about how how fast you did it it's just about 02:08:06.180 --> 02:08:08.119 doing it you know so whether it's murph whether 02:08:08.119 --> 02:08:10.399 it's chad 1000 whether it's you know some of 02:08:10.399 --> 02:08:12.500 these other ones but yeah in my mind i can see 02:08:12.500 --> 02:08:15.020 a post in my head of the 343 that we did a few 02:08:15.020 --> 02:08:17.180 years ago and it was it was exactly what you're 02:08:17.180 --> 02:08:20.359 talking about so yeah yeah those are uh humbling 02:08:20.359 --> 02:08:23.600 to say the least Yeah, and sometimes we need 02:08:23.600 --> 02:08:25.579 that. I have them workouts where I can go in 02:08:25.579 --> 02:08:26.939 the gym and that's certainly one of them now 02:08:26.939 --> 02:08:28.920 where I don't have to think about what I'm doing 02:08:28.920 --> 02:08:30.619 because sometimes it can be an environment that 02:08:30.619 --> 02:08:33.279 can be quite overstimulating. But I've got five 02:08:33.279 --> 02:08:36.680 or six workouts I can go in, takes 25, 30 minutes, 02:08:36.819 --> 02:08:39.020 40 minutes, whatever it is, blast it out, my 02:08:39.020 --> 02:08:41.359 body's up, boom. And I could go and sit in the 02:08:41.359 --> 02:08:43.359 sauna and get home, have an afternoon kip, and 02:08:43.359 --> 02:08:45.939 then that's it. We're golden. Beautiful. Well, 02:08:46.020 --> 02:08:48.119 for people listening then, where can they find 02:08:48.119 --> 02:08:51.960 the Unified Against Violence? And then where 02:08:51.960 --> 02:08:54.260 else can they reach out to you on social media 02:08:54.260 --> 02:08:58.859 or online? Okay, so Unified Violence is on Instagram. 02:08:58.899 --> 02:09:02.699 It's unified underscore against underscore violence. 02:09:02.880 --> 02:09:05.960 That's pretty straightforward. And then myself. 02:09:07.500 --> 02:09:12.680 I'm not mad. I am on Instagram, jcube0067. So 02:09:12.680 --> 02:09:16.579 J -A -Y -K -U -B -E 0067 used to be my old brigade 02:09:16.579 --> 02:09:19.739 number. So yeah, I'll post on there. But if anyone 02:09:19.739 --> 02:09:21.739 wants to chat or reach out, I mean, I'm over 02:09:21.739 --> 02:09:24.739 in Florida in May with my daughter for cheer. 02:09:24.880 --> 02:09:26.340 So I was going to see if I'm going to stick my 02:09:26.340 --> 02:09:28.000 head in a fire station somewhere, which you might 02:09:28.000 --> 02:09:30.039 be able to hook me up with for that. And see 02:09:30.039 --> 02:09:32.640 some bits and pieces. Yeah, that'd be great. 02:09:32.739 --> 02:09:34.720 But yeah, that's essentially it. And I'm on Facebook 02:09:34.720 --> 02:09:38.260 as jcube. K -U -B -I -A -K. So yeah, that's it. 02:09:38.500 --> 02:09:40.399 But yeah, if anyone reaches out, if there's anything 02:09:40.399 --> 02:09:42.760 I can help with or anything of interest, then 02:09:42.760 --> 02:09:44.739 I'm all in, buddy. If I can support somebody 02:09:44.739 --> 02:09:47.000 or help somebody, you know, I'm there. Well, 02:09:47.100 --> 02:09:48.779 I appreciate it, mate. It's been such an amazing 02:09:48.779 --> 02:09:51.020 conversation. Again, we've gone all over the 02:09:51.020 --> 02:09:52.960 place, which is why I like these long form chats 02:09:52.960 --> 02:09:56.000 that we do now. So yeah, I want to thank you 02:09:56.000 --> 02:09:58.300 so, so much for being so generous with your time 02:09:58.300 --> 02:10:00.399 and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today. 02:10:00.920 --> 02:10:03.159 No, it's an absolute pleasure. Thank you very 02:10:03.159 --> 02:10:04.600 much for having me, James. Thank you.