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of the Behind the Shield podcast. Welcome to
the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my
name is James Geering, and this week it is my
absolute honor to welcome back onto the show
special forces and special operations leader.
Executive Director of the Bird's Eye View Project
and the COO of Tip of the Spear Landmine Removal,
Chris Robichaud. Now, if you missed my first
conversation with Robi, it was episode 824 of
the Behind the Shield podcast. In this second
conversation, we discuss a host of new topics
from his boots on the ground experience in the
Ukraine conflict, assisting the locals with landmine
removal. Our shared experience on the 7X Human
Performance Project, the book and documentary
that spawned from that, the exciting fundraising
events Bird's Eye View Project has in 2026, the
incredible work Sons of the Flag is doing to
help our burn -injured first responders, and
so much more. Now, before we get to this incredible
conversation, as I say every week, please just
take a moment. Go to whichever app you listen
to this on, subscribe to the show, Leave feedback
and leave a rating. Every single five -star rating
truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making
it easier for others to find. And this is a free
library of almost 1 ,200 episodes now. So all
I ask in return is that you help share these
incredible men and women's stories so I can get
them to every single person on planet Earth who
needs to hear them. So with that being said...
I welcome back onto the show, Chris Roby Robichaud.
Enjoy. Well, Roby, I want to start by saying,
firstly, it was amazing to see you again a couple
weeks ago in Dallas, and second, to welcome you
back onto the Behind the Shield podcast today.
Thank you so much, James. It was such a gift
to be able to see you and the whole crew from
that 7X journey and being invited back. I guess
I didn't screw it up the first time, or you're
just really hurting for guests, probably the
latter. I was going to say probably the second
part. Yeah, I get it. It's hard to pull somebody
in over the holidays. No, I'm honored, man. Thank
you, James, for the invitation. So where on planet
Earth are we finding you today? Yeah, so Northeast
Ohio. I'm looking out the window right now. All
the snow has melted, unfortunately. We had a
beautiful Christmas snowball, you know, one of
the things you shake up. And it was really nice
for weeks. And now it's just a muddy mess with
muddy dogs. And it's just dreary outside. But,
yeah, northeast Ohio is where we're at. Beautiful.
Yeah, we're going to have sunshine and warm days
for the next few days. It's going to get colder,
I think, in a few days' time. What's colder?
Like 50s in the days and, you know, like 30s
at night. Unbearable. Unacceptable. Arctic. All
right. Well, as an icebreaker, I think, because
we'll get to 7X and Bird's Eye View and all the
other things. An area that I'm not very well
versed in, I've talked a lot about, you know,
I've had guests from, you know, Iraq, Afghanistan,
Gaza, some of these other conflicts that we see
towards the Middle East, but the Ukrainian conflict.
And I can't remember if we even talked about
it last time, because I want to say it was before
it kicked off. So if you wouldn't mind, kind
of give us a backstory politically of how this
even happened. And then I'd love to kind of hear
about some of the humanitarian stuff you and
your colleagues have been doing. Yeah. OK, so
I am the chief operations officer of Tip of the
Spear Landmine Removal, the 501C nonprofit. And
then we also have a sister NGO, non -government
organization registered in Ukraine, also called
Tip of the Spear Landmine Removal. So it's two
organizations, but one being established in Ukraine
and being recognized as an NGO just kind of opens
up more doors. So, yeah, tip of the spear, landmine
removal, as the name title implies, founded by
this amazing, brave Ryan Hendrickson, just superhuman.
After having been blown up, nearly losing his
leg in Afghanistan many years ago, well, not
too many years ago in Afghanistan, his drive
to. continue to help people uh ukraine came up
and he found a really really impactful mission
for himself there removing land mines for the
villages he was actually there um with a church
group uh running uh elderly out of the combat
zone while bringing humanitarian supplies in
and while he was there he saw some of the contamination
by elements uh explosive remnants of war. We
call it ERWs. That's the industry term. And so
while he was there, he just started chucking
minefields out of our mines out of the way. You
know, there's probably more calculated than that.
But with his expertise, he, and then he found
that there was an incredible need for it. So
he found a tip to spare landmine removal. And
from his vision, we've just really focused on
what we call humanitarian demining. That's not
a doctrinal term necessarily. Or if it is, it
doesn't describe what we do because we do without
money, meaning without charging fees, we focus
on the humanitarian side. So parts of Ukraine
that have been liberated or under Ukraine control
or repatriated is a term that's thrown around.
It's mostly farm fields. And we go out and help
the farmers get back to their land. to uncontaminate,
I guess, all the minefields. And I don't say
all the minefields. We are just scratching the
surface. But it is a Herculean effort. But it's
a monster. It's huge by different accounts, the
minefield situation there. Well, it's the biggest
minefield in the world. Both sides have been
employing mine warfare. And both sides... haven't
really registered or recorded where they put
the mines in the minefields the only commonality
is they're using the same ones um but uh it's
it takes a lot of battlefield detective work
and i think that's why we're relatively not relatively
we're quite effective because finding the minefields
is tough without a record right And, you know,
U .S. doctrine and NATO and the Commonwealth,
like, you know, we record, we do everything we
can to mitigate the effects of mine warfare after
hostilities. A lot of our mines are sophisticated
and they blow up on their own. They detonate,
self -detonate. But not these. These are old
Soviet style mines and both sides use them and
they're out there. So I'm sorry, back to the
battlefield detective work. We are special operations
veterans for the most part and, of course, bomb
disposal or EOD, explosive ordnance disposal
professionals. And I think you really have to
have a military context going into it, not only
because of mine warfare, but you have to put
yourself in the mindset or through the view of
the person that emplaced the mines. In other
words, what were they trying to achieve? If I
was operating in this area, whether I'm an aggressor
or a defender, and I'm going to put in a minefield,
where am I going to put it? And then you reverse
engineer that to why am I going to put it? And
then you kind of go a little bit further back,
like what resources would be available to me
to put the minefield in, whether it was mechanical
or manual labor. And then how does that tie into
the grander picture of a layered defense, rather
on a large scale or even just, you know, a couple
hundred acres of a... The farmer's field. And
so you have to do a lot of that. And what we'll
do, I guess, relatively typical is you interview
the villagers and the farmers. Now we're going
back three and a half years now. And so, but
you have to ask people. So, you know, back when
the mines were put in here, what do you remember
seeing? Where do you not go anymore? Where through
the years have you guys determined that this
is not a place to go anymore? Sometimes there's
makeshift minefield signs, warning signs for
neighbors and all. And then a lot of time for
farmer's fields, it's just been overgrown, right?
It's just absolute mess because it's fertile
ground, direct sunlight. It's in one of the most
fertile soils in Europe. So weeds will overtake
the farm field. So that's pretty obvious where
farmers haven't been going. But that provides
another challenge is mine detecting in thicket.
Which is incredibly difficult. So anyways, you
put yourself in the eye of the person in place.
You conduct your human intelligence by interviewing
people around the area. And then that kind of
adds to your gunkulator, right, as you're making
an assessment. And then if you do come upon evidence
of a mine strike, like a vehicle in the middle
of the field that's been destroyed or abandoned,
blowing up animals. By now, it's probably grown
over, but in the early days, that was a relatively
easier thing to see. Or if you find a defensive
position or artillery gun positions that have
long been abandoned, but if this was a defensive
trench network or a platoon position or a company
position or tied in through maybe up to a battalion
position, then you can really start playing,
okay, so I'm a lieutenant or I'm a captain. and
i'm told to defend this bridge head this bridge
area or this part of a river or this road intersection
or other parts that would have a tactical advantage
how do i defend it right and so that's where
you got to rely on your experience of yours in
the military whatever whoever's on the ground
and then you're like okay well i'd probably put
anti -personnel mines here i'd put anti -tank
mines out there i'd do a mixed thing here the
density of the mine field when it might be kind
of spread out or it might be closer together
meaning the mine to mine because density plays
into something called sympathetic detonations
where one mine goes off and then another one
goes off. So you don't want that. So they got
to be, then you got to look at like the manufacturer's
data, right? So like either even old Soviet or
more current Russian doctrine. Okay, well, they
don't, they put the mines in a pattern. It's
like this, but did they use doctrine? And how
does that tie into terrain? And how do you reinforce
existing terrain that's going to canalize? And
then you would mine that area. So it's a lot
of battlefield detective work. And then the other
part is using drones. Now, that's become nearly
impossible these days in Ukraine because the
airspace is incredibly controlled, which it should
be. And it's just even in these past few years,
electronic warfare in the efforts to jam the
drones, whether jamming their signals for their
full mission videos, FMVs. or just piloting them
is a real challenge. And to Ukraine's credit,
it takes a lot of deconfliction to get permission
to fly a drone. And then, you know, they'll tell
you, yeah, you can throw up a drone and then,
you know, it's a country, you know, and they
have laws, not unlike our own FAA. You know,
you can only go up to a certain altitude and
you're always at the risk of losing your drone.
Because it could catch a bandwidth of some electronic
warfare that's just going to Z it out or otherwise
just fry it or cancel the operator pilot, remote
pilot to the aircraft. And it'll just interrupt
that signal and crush it down. So that part of
it is more challenging from a humanitarian point
of view. With our donations at Tip the Spear
Landmine Removal, a typical mission. is we'll
raise money, raise enough money to buy a bunch
of these really, really world -class high -end
metal, excuse me, mine detectors. And then a
couple of duffel bags worth of them go over with
us and we distribute them to their emergency
services, James, not to their military. And that's
a big distinction because the donor base is...
in large part stimulated by the idea that it's
a humanitarian demining. And we stay true to
that. We're apolitical. We don't want to, you
just alienate a lot of donors and it impedes
our mission for humanitarian demining if our
mine detectors were going to the military or
the training we provide or the advising that
we give was to the military. Well, you're not
apolitical anymore, and you're not humanitarian
anymore. You're in a mobility facet of ground
warfare, and that's just not our business. So
working with their emergency services, that's
our focus. That's our target market population
is with their emergency services, and they're
the ones tasked with this just overwhelming.
overwhelming task and of course it's a it's a
country at war right so how much if you put yourself
as a ukrainian decision maker or a parliament
member or even down to the obelisks or the county
or the states within um where where do you put
your assets like where where would you do your
demining you know are you preparing for an offensive
operation into a defense a russian defense well
then You know, you're still at war. And as we
were talking before we started recording, I'm
interested to see, well, I'm eager to see peace
in the area, for sure. But in terms of volunteerism,
and more specifically to this humanitarian demining
that I just kind of etched out, I'm curious to
see how that's going to affect the mine clearing
strategy. Not strategy in a military context,
but in a decision making. And organizationally,
I mean, there's just so much to do in the prioritization
post hostilities, whatever that may look like.
How are they going to decide not only where to
direct or prioritize assets like deminers? By
the way, they're called sappers. Most of Europe,
if not the world, refers to deminers as sappers.
It's an engineering term. But then how do you
how do they how do they stack and prioritize?
I guess that would be an allocation. But prioritization
would be who what parts of land get demined first.
You know, you got critical infrastructure, you
know, that need to be opened back up again, post
hostilities with all these talks of peace talks
and the delays and the false hopes and this emotional
roller coaster. The global community is on. I'm
not the only one, not only humanitarian, but
in reconstruction, the for -profits, the engineering
outfits throughout Europe and the world that
want to go in and start the rebuilding process.
I'm really curious, and I spend a lot of time
trying to anticipate what post -hostilities will
look like in Ukraine. And more specifically,
as that narrows down to the demining effort,
because it's... It's a huge task. It's almost
impossible to get your head around how much land
needs cleared. And by the way, clearing, if I
may, James, I'm on quite a rant here, aren't
I? You haven't said a word in like - Go for it.
No, this is the whole point. They didn't listen
to this to listen to me. Listen to you. I took
some grapple science for cognitive energy and
it is rocking. I just rely on meth myself. It
works really well. Yeah, yeah. I'll do some lines
after this. Yeah, one statistic was the land
mass of Florida is equivalent to the amount of
land that is contaminated or suspected to be
contaminated. So imagine clearing Florida. That's
insane. That's ridiculous. That's insane. And
then by the way, whether there's mines there
or not, that's the trick, right? With mine warfare
and clearing, more so clearing than the mine
warfare. You don't know where the actual mines
are. There's, I would, yeah, there's more suspected
areas that need cleared than mine areas that
need cleared. But to the demining community,
it's the same because it still needs cleared,
right? So I think that's an important distinction
as some people that aren't familiar with this.
It's still going to require people to walk the
ground and wave a mine detector. Now there's
mechanical, there's mechanical clearing. But
according to IMAS, International Mine Action
Standards, which is kind of like the OSHA for
mine clearing. It's an international guideline
and doctrine that everybody operates under, at
least the professional ones. And in it, you can't
turn, if you take an assignment or if you take
responsibility to clear land, you can't turn
that land over being designated as cleared. unless
it's hand detected. So even if you have these
mine rollers or these flail machines or these
spades that disrupt the earth in an effort to
detonate mines or move mines away, that's a military,
frankly, that's a military thing. I mean, you
can flail and some of the farmers have some really
ingenious things that they've done with their
tractors. And you can do all that and you will
have mines detonate or things that are subsurface
will surface and that's fine. It's still got
to be walked. It's still got to be hand -wanded.
Well, wanded, that's not really a thing. But,
you know, hand -cleared with mine detectors.
Those mechanical ones are more of a, again, they're
really effective in mobility aspect of combat
engineering, where you have to clear an area
for follow -on forces or for an attacking force.
You know, the engineers go out and they just...
move mines away or they detonate the mines and
that's cool and you can do that in a humanitarian
aspect but the the munitions are still there
it's still still dangerous what about the rats
that supposedly can help with that have you heard
of that i think it was in southeast asia where
i saw that okay yeah southeast asia and africa
and africa they're doing that yeah that's that's
cool that's a way uh pretty creative and i want
to say it's an emerging technology but is it
really a technology but the idea of training
of training the rats um and you know letting
them go out and you know in an assigned lane
i'm not really sure how that works i've never
worked with them um personally i'm not a big
fan of you using canines um just because they're
They're amazing animals, and I just personally
can't get behind the use of canines, nor does
tip of the spear. Ryan's not a big fan of that
either, so that's one of our non -techniques.
That's off the list. Yeah, I don't think anyone's
using rats in Ukraine that I know of. What is
the backstory of the conflict, and then what
are you hoping as far as a peace deal? Okay.
Wow. All right. Now, this is a very political
question. So I will address it as Roby from my
perspective. This is a really important preface
that this does not reflect the views of Tip the
Spare Landmine Removal Ukraine or Tip the Spare
Landmine Removal 501c3 out of Florida. So my
personal views. uh is there needs to be peace
i think that okay so let's start there everybody
wants peace for sure now there i i don't know
much i i volunteered uh see the invasion was
in early march or was it late february and then
i was there within 30 days doing humanitarian
work not demining just um putting in doctors
and engineers into positions where they could
help out So I'm not a scholar of the invasion,
what precipitated it in terms of if Ukraine broke
a treaty or if Ukraine was going a direction
that was outside of something that maybe they
promised. And then Ukraine's like, well, you
broke this treaty, so we're going to break this
treaty. And then there's the idea of, you know,
that the Russians have been in there for over
a decade, you know, on the far eastern side,
Donbass. And then they claim that they're protecting
ethnic Russians, you know, from the pro -Western
government of Ukraine. So I don't know much about
the preface. But since the war started, I personally
look at it as Ukraine already won. If you recall,
Russia invaded with the intent of dominating
all of Ukraine, overthrowing the pro -Western
government. And then just setting Ukraine back
up like it was back in the Soviet Union days.
It would be a satellite republic or a satellite
block country. Remember those terms from the
80s and early 90s? So I think that's massive
to appreciate that they won. They defeated the
giant, giant Russia. This little country with
an under -sophisticated military, not reflecting
on the people. But they didn't have super great
technology. They didn't have masses of armament.
But through grit and patriotism and the mobilization
of the entire country under martial law to put
up a defense against one of our peer adversaries
at the time. I won't give them that much credit
now. But at the time, we thought they were peer
adversaries to us and our allies. um and they
defeated them they defeated the the the offensive
nature of trying to take over a country which
is it's mind -boggling what ukraine pulled off
and not only did they you know preserve the capital
preserve the government uh continuity of operate
the coop continuity of operations they they preserved
it all they went directly into martial law everything
fell under the ministry of defense and then not
only did they defend right every village is given
armament and given mines, not every village,
but every village of concern. And everybody was
just deputized and martialized as soldiers. And
they pushed them back. And not only did they
push them back, hence, they've done offensive
operations, not only through these crazy, creative,
industrious missions through the airspace of
Russia with these drone attacks. oh man they're
just so creative it's amazing but then the counter
-offensives right as they continue to push the
russians back into the eastern the far eastern
parts of ukraine so it's it's an amazing feat
i again not ukrainian though i am pro -ukrainian
for sure um i can't help but be enamored by being
over there and witnessing it firsthand the patriotism
and the sacrifices and the tragedies But I'm
always one for the underdog and the defiance
that's displayed on a global level that I nothing
but respect and love. Having said that, you got,
well, you guys, I'm talking to them now, right?
In case anyone from the Ukrainian parliament
is watching. You won. You did it. You fought
them back. You preserved your nation. You're
still a state. And you've built massive allies
in the process. So what happens now? What is
the road to peace? I'm afraid that it's going
to take some capitulation. And that's what a
negotiation is, right? Both sides go in with
what they want. They have their negotiation area.
And then they both walk out pissed off, but acceptable.
That's how negotiations work. Just like buying
a new car. You have this. The dealer has this.
You're both going to negotiate a little bit.
And then you both leave unhappy. But it's acceptable.
So, yeah, I think there's going to be capitulation,
whether it's in terms of treaties or non -treaties,
whether it's capitulation of land, which is incredibly
hard to swallow, or then even trade. There's
so many layers. So I'm not a diplomat, but in
my eyes, Ukraine already won. En masse, I don't
think that most people... buy into most of these
conflicts that we're sent to like i always say
world war ii especially when people really found
out what was going on behind closed doors no
one questions that conflict to a point now the
events leading up to it could that have been
stopped in its tracks yes i believe so but you're
you know an 18 19 20 year old allied soldier
going in being told what's happening i think
it's pretty cut and dry okay there's absolute
horrific things happening that we need to go
stop. But so many other conflicts, I mean, a
lot of the Iraq veterans that have come on here,
for example, being told one thing years later,
realizing that wasn't a thing anymore. The same
as the young Russian recruits. I just don't believe
that most of these people woke up one day and
said, I want to go to war against those people.
But over and over and over again, these wars
are started by these few politicians, wealthy
people etc and yet it's not their children that
fight these wars it's everyone else's children
history has seen this repeat itself over and
over and over again how do we break that cycle
of putting you know farm boy against farm boy
over invisible barriers that that these two people
are going to benefit from and the masses are
actually going to lose from wow that's great
that's a great great point let's kind of formulate
my opinion while you're explaining that i think
what happened in ukraine in terms of both sides
willingness to continue to prolong the war and
again hopefully it's going to end soon i think
the reason that it's it's so hard to negotiate
is both sides are just rooted in their belief
in the war it's not a token gesture the the conflict
In the caucuses. Recently, like those were like
border insurrection things and people had to
rattle their sword and, you know, like, OK, that's,
you know, no one's really spirited about that.
But what happened in Ukraine, I think, is Ukraine
is an incredibly young country. Right. It spawned
out of the fall of the Soviet Union and was at
89, I think. And and so they're super young and
having been a. a NATO special operations task
force commander in Afghanistan. I worked with
NATO a lot. I was in Germany for six years as
a Green Beret, and I consider myself pretty well
-versed in NATO. Now, what's cool about NATO,
if I may, or more importantly, just the European
allies beyond NATO, is the Eastern European countries
are patriotic to the degree of which It's hard
for Americans to get their head around, except
post 9 -11. In post 9 -11, everybody rallied.
Everybody solidified. All these little political
divisions that we're seeing in our contemporary
issues, they weren't there. Everybody was just
all pro -America. American flags were out in
front of the houses. Soldiers are being carried
on everyone's shoulders. It was an amazing time
of patriotism in the years following the attacks.
Well, that's not unlike. what Ukraine and the
other Eastern countries in Europe are like. They're
only 25 years old, 30 years old, and they're
incredibly patriotic. So they're, you know, with
patriotism, dense patriotism, comes motivation,
comes lack of tolerance. So imagine as an American,
I know this might be hard for you, James, but
if we gain our independence in 1776 and by the
end of the war or whatever, so let's say it's
1800, right? And you're only like 15, 20 years
old and you're pretty excited about your independence.
You're pretty excited about this new rule of
law that you're living under. And it's what people
were seeking out. And now you have it and you
don't want to give it up. You're never going
to give it up again. You're never going to. want
to go through such a bloody fight but still the
the principles are ingrained in you and i think
that's what's going on with these 30 or 40 year
old country i'm sorry my math is dismal but being
a new country they're they're all in i every
in a lot of them whether it was nato and afghanistan
or just traveling throughout europe for different
conferences or exercises The patriotism is incredibly
admirable. It's awe -inspiring. And Ukraine,
I mean, there's Ukrainian... If I was a business
person in Ukraine, I would invest in whatever
colored dye, radiant blue and radiant yellow,
because you would make a killing in the flag
industry. You know, just the Ukrainian flags
are everywhere. And there's these beautiful murals
and on buildings in the larger towns and the
political posters and the billboards. And it's
just it's everywhere. And it's just really it's
really inspiring. OK, so that's half of it. Right.
That's that's a country that's like, you know,
we got a new. Remember, they went through like
a little revolution of sorts. Right. And then
they had this. pro -Eastern, the pro -Russian
government got replaced with pro -Western. And
then Russia started doing those operations out
East to liberate the Russian ethnic epicenters
in Eastern Ukraine, right? So now we're in conflict,
right? Now, combine that with the Russian extreme
Jedi mind tricking. that they can do on their
massive population, where despite the internet,
they own all the news sources and they have so
many different mechanisms of influence with internal
to the Russian Federation that Putin can sell
anybody anything and they're going to believe
it. Now, don't get me, there's dissidents in
Russia and God bless them. And there's always
going to be that. But by far and large, even
the widows and the mothers that are losing these
young Russian soldiers, despite all that, there's
still an ironclad grasp on the Russian perception
of what's going on in the war. And in a greater
context, their perception of the West. So Putin
has he he's the guy behind the curtain in The
Wizard of Oz. You know, he can manipulate everybody's
perception. And I say everybody's meaning the
vast majority. So there's your perfect storm,
James. There's your perfect storm. An incredibly
patriotic country with just who David and Goliath
type of enthusiasm. And then you have. A massive
country, one of the most powerful countries in
the world with a completely brainwashed, not
completely, but overwhelmingly brainwashed population
in the Federation to fuel that war. And then,
of course, then you can cut each one into more
slices on each side. But Russia can sell it.
He, Putin, he can sell why they're in Ukraine.
He can sell why they need a buffer between the
rest of Western Europe. He can sell that, right?
And then especially with Belarus, you know, and
to extend that North -South alliance or the bloc
countries again. He can sell that. And he does.
And it's an easy sell. And then you got the incredibly
hard -headed, and for a good reason, Ukrainians.
And so I think that's why this is so insane of
a war. insane in terms of the casualties. The
Ukrainian soldiers refer to the Russians, at
least this one unit did, it's a story I heard.
They refer to the Russian soldiers as condoms.
I don't know the Ukrainian word or the Russian
word for condoms, but they call them condoms
because you can only use them once. They show
up and they get slaughtered. Russian soldiers
don't fight two, three battles. They'll fight
a battle, they'll die, and then more Russian
troops will come in. They're one -time use soldiers.
And I heard morale is pretty crap. Well, that
mirrors World War II, what we heard about Stalin,
and that was the thing. The body count of the
Russian fatalities was horrendous. And that's
part of their military culture, if not their
societal culture. Yeah, that willingness, that
sacrificial willingness, it's something that
we can't get our head around. Well, my whole
thing is, I was just thinking about this the
other day. When we're all born, and I've referred
to toddlers all the time, it's the perfect analogy.
You put a group of toddlers in a room. They don't
care if they're, you know, who they pray to,
you know, who they will sleep with one day, what
the color of their skin is, you know, what their
background is as far as geography. They're just
kids and they will play with a ball and draw
together and all the things. And the concept
that one day one of those kids will say, well,
I'm going to dictate everything that you guys
do and think 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now. It's
insane. Like everyone was born with the same
opportunity. And so when you see this, when you
see people get to this position of power where
they dictate a nation and create misery and war
and all those things, like the fact that we still
tolerate that even these days is mind blowing.
And it reminds me kind of a really, really profound
thing. Someone told me they were talking about
someone else's work, but they said, you've got
civilians and you've got citizens. And going
back to your post 9 -11 comment, I would argue
that we really saw the citizens of America stand
up, the patriots, not the nationalists. And here
we are now, barely two decades later, and, you
know, cleaved apart. And I would say, you know,
the last nine years or so. So that spans both
sides of the aisle. But now you've got the same
people that were side by side that didn't matter
who everyone prayed to, didn't matter who everyone
slept with. All of a sudden now, those things
are the most important thing. And if you don't
vote this way or if you happen to transition
that way or whatever it is, now, you know, that's
the most important thing. How, as someone who
served in response to what happened to 9 -11,
how have we strayed from the citizens being the
most valued person in the states? to the civilian
or nationalist being the one that's heralded
and put on a platform? Social media, that's my
crack at it. That's what I'm thinking as you
were describing that. So what's different? How
did this happen? How are people influenced? In
special forces, we talk a lot, and we're doctrinally
and in the schoolhouse. the first generation
institutions of our schoolhouse. You know, we're
taught influence operations. And in large part,
in terms of U .S. doctrine on influence operations
or information operations, which is slightly
different, or psychological operations, which
is part of both those umbrellas. So it goes back
to the military construct of tactical level,
operational level, and then strategic level.
And either way you look at it, I think the common
thread in all that in influencing people and
whether you are reinforcing a tendency for a
population or you're trying to change a perception
or trying to change an attitude towards whatever
strategic messaging that you're projecting. I
think it's social media. I think it's social
media because that's an advent. It's not that
old. but it's got massive inertia behind it.
And people are referring to it. And the thing
about social media is it's so easy to influence.
It's so easy to manipulate. And freedom of speech,
it should be. But again, we're a new country.
By the way, we're young. We're slightly older
than our Eastern European allies and colleagues,
but we're still trying to figure stuff out. And
we, one of our hallmarks. One of the pillars
of our culture and civilization is freedom of
speech. So that freedom of speech comes with
a risk. You are ripe for manipulation. And this
vehicle of social media is an incredible, powerful
tool. And it's fast. The power to influence is
massive with it. So if you think back to maybe,
geez, now I'm showing my age, even back to the
70s or 80s or before AOL, if you want to take
it that late, you got it from the papers and
you got it from the nightly news. And then CNN
came along and started doing 24 -hour news, right?
So the part of the country that was involved
in wanting to be informed now could access the
headlines 24 -7. And now then we had full cycle
news channels, full cycle news channels. Everything
was always there. And then, you know, the AP
and people started sharing stories globally,
real time, not stories that are submitted and
then put in an opinion piece. I'm just like the
real time into the news sources. And now suddenly
everybody's a reporter. Everybody can influence.
And there's just so much. And if you're popular,
whatever, whatever drives popularity on social
media. whether it's aesthetics or shock jocking
or substance or, you know, great graphics or
buying a population, you know, through manipulating
the views and the likes and the subscribers and
all that. Before you know it, you're a massive
influencer and anybody can do it regardless of
how learned they are on the topics. And so not
only is it just to recap from my own thoughts,
we are a culture. That is founded in large part
on the freedom of press and expression. In a
large part, we're in the midst of a revolution
with, we're all connected through social media
and that's not going away. And now with AI, oh
my gosh, now we don't know what's real, what's
not, what's original content, what is integrated
with AI or what's just bots or trolls just doing
their own thing anyway, probably more articulate
than we can come up with. excluding yourself
because you're one of the most articulate people
i know you don't know so you got technology you've
got a willingness to express yourself you've
got people thirsty for more information because
we're all globally connected and then you've
got um salacious actors out there that want to
influence and and sway opinions whether state
sponsored or otherwise away from the the way
of the righteous the way of moving forward as
a society so i i think that i think that's why
i think that's the difference these days yeah
i'm probably missing something else but off the
top our diet no that's probably not it yeah i
think i think that's why i think that's why uh
you find these divisions so so deep -rooted Well,
I've just found purely observationally, I've
been on Instagram for I forget how many years
it is now. I think pretty much since I started
the podcast. So probably nine, 10 years. And
in the last year, my site got shut down twice,
my page. I know. And all I ever did was post.
kindness compassion community and yeah highlight
some things but always in the middle road always
bringing guests on but yeah i mean if you were
terminating first responders for example for
not taking a vaccine after they've been out unprotected
for a year yeah that needs to be talked about
you know you know the the the the back and forth
in gaza and then now we're talking about collateral
damage of tens of thousands of children yeah
that needs to be talked about and if that's putting
a target on your back then you know So be it.
But what I realize is even from the popularity
and what really takes, it isn't that. It isn't
the conversations bringing people together. It
isn't the middle of the road reporting. It is
the extremism. And I'm sure if my site had nothing
but guns and Bibles and porn on it, it would
probably have a billion views by now. But you
talk about bringing everyone in. Whether it's,
you know, deliberate or just simply supply and
demand, the algorithm does not like kindness,
compassion and community. It just doesn't. Tragic.
Yeah, you know, it goes back to, you know, sex
sells. And I'm not referring to, you know, actual
sex or exploitation of good looking people or
whatever. But if it's to use the second time
today. If not this month, salaciousness, right?
Like it's what sells. I don't know. I don't know
the psychology behind it, but if it's salacious,
if it's something that captures your attention,
I mean, marketers and advertisers are the Jedi
mind trickers, right? For ever since the first
pinup calendar, you know, like that's going to
draw you in. And then once you got them, you
can go any direction. God forbid you're in the
way of the righteous. You know, God forbid. Like,
why aren't people that are doing motivational
things or not unlike yourself addressing suicide
rates and exploring solutions? How is that not
at the peak of views, right? But it's not. It's
an uphill battle. You'll never compete with whatever
that human nature is. And, you know, that's sociology
and psychology. And that would be interesting
if I was a younger person who had time to figure
that out. But it's too bad. And I don't know
if that's going to change. That might be human
nature. I don't know. But it's almost embarrassing,
isn't it? It kind of shows you our fragileness,
I guess, or our closed -mindedness en masse that
we don't seek out. I was in one of the places
I lived through. the 30 years in the military,
we had RT, Russian television, and we had Al
Jazeera, both on our cable subscription list,
right? It was just one of the things. And I would
spend a lot of time watching both of those because
I already knew what our stance, whether it's
American culture, American politics, or American
military, like I already know that. I don't need
more of it. I'm in. You guys got me. I'm a patriot.
You know what I mean? Like, I'm in. Again, as
a young country, we're trying to level out to
homeostasis as a culture and as a country. But
to see, I was more intrigued about how we're
perceived or how are we being sold to the rest
of the world. Again, being relatively NATO -centric,
European -centric in my assignments. I found
that interesting. And that's where I would spend
my viewership was that. That was surprising.
That was surprising and alarming. But yeah, we're
just ripe for it, man. I don't think we can change
human nature. But see, in a lot of ways, I'm
not convinced that we're bad people. Like I'm
a humanitarian, right? I went from Green Beret
to humanitarian. And I'll tell you this, in a
lot of ways, the Green Beret and at large, the
special operations community. and at large military,
at least the ones that play by the rules like
us and our allies, for the most part, that we
are humanitarian, right? We have rules and ethics
and conduct of warfare. And it's not only trained,
but it's reinforced. Case in point, the re -attack
on that vessel off of Venezuela that's in the
headlines is under scrutiny. Now, you can argue
whether it should be or it shouldn't be, but
the beauty is that we're arguing about it. That's
fine. Let's argue about it. Let's explore it.
And it's not so much about that particular engagement,
but if that's the centerpiece right now, whether
because it's on the news cycle or lack of other
things to talk about, or because this might spark
a broader conflict. The fact that we're examining
it and we're broadening it. This wouldn't happen
in Russia. This debate, whether we're supposed
to re -attack a vessel or with, you know, non
-combatants or non -hostiles or whatever, you
know, treading water. And I don't know. I don't
know. I know law, land of law conflict relatively
well. I'm not up to date. Let's talk about it.
Let's argue it. Bring up your point. That's healthy
moving forward. That's how we get better. And
it doesn't matter who's right or who's wrong.
Well, I mean, it does matter because that will
affect the future conduct of maritime warfare
and stuff like that. But the fact that we're
debating it is healthy for sure. That's how we
propel. That's how we grow. That's how we mature.
And that's how we're going to make it. uh civilization
and a government that lasts for centuries you
know we're young we're super young yeah what
surprised me when i thought of al jazeera back
in the day you were thinking okay this was the
terrorist television network but right i you
know actually originally from from social media
i started seeing them recently at least reporting
in a very non -political way. Now, of course,
every station has a leaning. I'm not saying that
at all. But it reminded me more of the BBC than
it did any version of Fox or CNN. Has that station
had an evolution or a change of ownership? Or
were we misunderstanding the backstory of them
back when we were obviously at war with that
part of the world? Well, I'm not up to date on
Al Jazeera. It's not a part of my cable subscription
or whatever streaming thing we have going on.
So I'm not up to date with it. But I remember
going in incredibly skeptical watching Al Jazeera.
And one of the things that turned me on to it
was how quick, how timely they were doing reporting
on things, you know, especially spectacular events.
And I don't mean spectacular isn't good, just,
you know, attacks or events or I think that we
had prisoners overseas and stuff like this. but
i i agree with you i i thought it was going to
be more slanted now the al jazeera america at
the time when it first started broadcasting in
the united states it had to tiptoe you know it
had to tiptoe it was full of anglo speakers right
like it was it was you know and uh talking heads
and it couldn't just go in straight with the
same strategy that Al Jazeera Saudi Arabia or
Al Jazeera Iran or Al Jazeera, like it's a different
audience and it was a different approach and
it was a different this, but it still had Al
Jazeera and it freaked a lot of people out because
it had that beautiful form of Arabic, you know,
the really colorful Arabic lettering, you know,
and the symbol and all that on American TVs post
9 -11. And you're like, what? So that was already
going to be ill -received by practically everybody,
myself included. But, you know, by tiptoeing
through it and not immediately being, well, okay,
maybe biased, but not openly harsh biased. I
was relatively impressed. It wasn't nearly as
bad as I thought it would be. Yeah, but I'm not
up to date. I haven't watched Al Jazeera or have
I read any of their stuff in a long time? Well,
I mean, on the social media, what I see is just
simply a station that reports on all things around
the world, which is the BBC that I grew up. Now,
I don't know behind the scenes, are they the
same as the BBC? The BBC is a slip from the standards
that it used to have, but... You're not seeing
reports on conflicts in the Middle East the whole
time. You're just seeing tornadoes and flooding
all over the world. This is happening. These
poor people in America, in the UK, in Germany,
and everywhere. So my perception of what they
were a long time ago has changed. And I'm looking
at this going, okay, well, they just report in
everywhere. Now, again, does that mean that every
person in that network has good intentions? Who
knows? Does everyone in Fox or CNN have good
intentions? We know that's a no. That's our own
fucking news people. So yeah, it was really interesting
because I've had people literally scream at me
on social media for having the audacity to watch
Al Jazeera. I'm like, well, have you watched
Al Jazeera or have you seen their social media?
This is literally this tragic thing that happened
over here that they're reporting on that. If
they just had a political... you know stance
and that was it all you would see was this one
-sided propaganda but that's not the case and
so for me it was just you know changing my own
perception and going huh i thought it was this
one thing you know i'm cautiously seeing this
as something else so um you know very interesting
like you said that knee jerk of well you know
if it's coming from this part of the world it
must be talking about this one thing having the
humility to go well let me look a little deeper
I realized, well, they just seem to be reporting
on all things worldwide, a lot of which our own
media don't even touch, which makes us less educated
and less compassionate towards places around
the world. So it was an eye -opening thing for
me, at least. I couldn't agree with you more.
And even to this day, I search out other media
outlets besides our conflicting... you know,
Fox and CNN in the political divide. Unfortunately,
um, that's, that's what it's become as opposed
to news. Yeah. We're not hearing everything that's
going on in the world. And I, you know, I, I
flatter myself as a, as a, like I said, a humanitarian
and a bit of a global humanitarian. And I, I
want to stay impressed with what's going on.
I'm definitely, because I know, I know the U
.S. I know. I've lived all over it. I'm proud.
I devoted my life, my adult life to it. And I'm
sold. I got it. I got it. And then, you know,
I'll watch the political things because I do
want to know. I have my own beliefs and can't
agree with everything there, can't agree with
everything there. And that's all fine. And that's
great. And that's the beauty of having a healthy,
I think, a healthy culture and a healthy. political
environment is that there's so much out there,
but it's just so amped on their messaging. It's
hard to find, and they're out there, but it's
hard to find news sources that are just facts.
And you can quote politicians for sure, but the
commentary on the big networks is just so left
and so right. And unless you make more effort,
you're not going to be able to peel away all
of the BS and just get to the points. So I enjoy
searching now. And, you know, that's great because
now back to social media, right? We were just
kind of damning the whole idea or maybe not damning
it, but recognizing for how powerful it is. All
the different telegrams and signal chats and.
Yeah, and a couple of the other ones where you
can get news from the ground. Everybody's a reporter.
You know what I mean? Everybody's showing videos
of stuff. And that's helpful. That's helpful
because you know relatively the people in that
community or in that chat. And you get to follow
along and pick and choose. But it doesn't cover
everything. Maybe I just need to relax, not care.
Well, one more question, we'll get off this topic,
but I think it's such an important conversation
for people that served, you know, that went over
there, flag on their shoulder, and either they
were first responders here, deployed overseas.
But from my perspective, having been from another
country, moving here 22 years ago now, 23 years
ago, it seems to me that if you have a system
to choose a president, That you have to be incredibly
wealthy to even play the game and you have to
receive lobbying money from companies that you're
going to then help out when you get in. That
the chances of getting one of the country's best
leaders is basically zero. How do we change the
system? Because we keep fighting over the blue
tie than the red tie. And in my opinion, it's
the same kind of person usually every four years
that makes it there. How do we change the system
so that we actually can get, because you and
I both know people who are incredible leaders
of all backgrounds. How can we change the system
so the real good, good servant leaders of the
United States of America actually have a chance
of making it to that position? James, I don't
know. I think that's going to take a massive
rewrite. I am learning. That the special interests
and the lobbyists and the campaign donors have
more influence in the future of America right
now than the citizenry. Yeah, I think that captured.
I think that that's what I want to say. Yeah.
So how how do we go back to the cream rising
to the top? How do we get to the best people
leading us through this insanely paced world
that we're in right now? And not by money, whether
it's special interest, campaign donors. Yeah,
I don't know. You almost think that even just
kind of pulling back to our own conversation
just now, that social media can be used as a
platform for good. And maybe that's the answer,
because the population gets to speak every day,
not just during an election cycle. Maybe we're
in the midst of a change on how our leaders get
into their positions, aside from money. I mean,
money, it's all about money, and I'm not naive
to that. But this isn't the... 80s 90s and even
2000s where you you only get to see what's going
on or see or balance your views with other views
and think we've got 24 -hour news cycles biased
for sure we've got internet where you can do
your own research and then we got social media
which is internet or not and then and then people
that you respect or people that you're on board
with bring up things and you finish watching
an episode or or whatever and you're like yeah
that's how i feel right or didn't know that i'm
going to add that to how i feel and then that's
only expressed during voting whether local state
you know the different midterms and stuff like
that because absence of all that then yeah we're
all just slaves to the the money and the donate
the donors the major donors and the lobbyists
so maybe this maybe in I'm sure there's a really
crafty colloquialism for it, but maybe what we
perceive as dangerous might be our salvation.
Yeah. Right? I've always said, Winston Churchill
said, and I'm paraphrasing, you can measure the
greatness of a nation by the health of their
people. And if you look at the health of the
American people, physical health, mental health,
That's spanned both aisles for decades. And as
we sit here now, 40 % obese over 70 % of the
population is overweight or obese. We have a
mental health crisis. Our children have to rehearse
their murders in their schools. That's both sides.
So it's not, well, it was the Republicans that
did this wrong or the Democrats. No, no. This
is the way that we're choosing these people is
obviously not working. The proof is in the pudding.
We've got gangs that ravage cities and we've
got the failure of drug prohibition, all these
areas that clearly there is a leadership void.
And if people gain billions, if not trillions,
when we're at war, when we're fat and sick, when
we're scared, so we buy more guns, whatever the
thing is, then where's the checks and balances
for the American people? And I think that's it.
We've got to take a step back and go, is this
system working? And I would argue if the nation
is cleaved and you're either one side or the
other, like World War I, then maybe, just maybe,
it's not working. Because to me, a real leader
pulls people together and a tyrant divides people.
And again, I'm talking both sides of the aisle.
So I think you're right. Hopefully, there'll
be an awakening where we just go, look, it's
the same freaking, what do they say, same circus,
different clowns or whatever the term is. I mean,
you know, we're all... One of my guests said
to me, imagine you're in medieval England and
you've got the peasants at each other's throat
over something. He's like, where are they not
looking? The castle. And that's exactly it. We've
got to realize that we've been pitted against
each other. I would really say deliberately on
most areas, people are tired, they're financially
stressed, they're overworked, they're underslept.
And you could see the lack of critical thinking
when the COVID thing happened and people lost
their fucking minds. So I would love to see everyone
just take a step back and go, look, it's 2025
now. You know, the original documents of this
country were written a long time ago. What can
we amend? So that we remove lobbyists from influencing
or buying our politicians and put it back into
a system that I don't know, maybe some other
country has already figured out where it allows
anyone of any background to rise through the
ranks and be the leader of their nation. Yeah.
Yeah. Again, maybe this is our salvation. I'm
optimistic and I'm eager when I meet critics
of the United States when I travel. Not in a
hostile sense, but just at the pubs or the bars.
And people are like, oh, America, you guys really
need to get your shit together or whatever. I
have fantasies of throat -punching people and
stuff, but more on a civil. Hey, we're young.
We're trying to figure it out. We're moving forward.
We are doing well. It's not easy. It's not easy.
But our culture is changing. Our technology is
changing. Our economy is up, down, sideways,
all over the place. I mean, it's all moving forward.
I don't think we're slipping. We might lose traction,
but I don't think we're going backward. I still
think we have a lot more to offer the world as
a partner and as an ally. Again, whether it's
diplomatically, once we figure all this out,
but through information. you know militarily
which there's still a need for and economically
i think i i we're moving forward sometimes it's
fast sometimes we're just spinning our our wheels
but we're young and we've got we attract the
greatest minds and our our workforce is talented
and eager our farmers are amazing our industry
and the industries are amazing like we we have
all we have everything we need to keep going
the politics of which is the hardest part but
but it's going to be the hardest part this shouldn't
be a surprise when you have some a mass like
the citizens of the united states that are just
so amazing and so culturally thick and strong
on both sides this is everybody everybody and
people are still wanting to come here and contribute
I mean, we've got everything we need. It's how
do you govern that? How do you move it forward?
How do you protect what you have? How do you
build alliances? Like that's all the peripheral
needful things that are going to happen. But
at its core, we're talented. And that's a good
thing. A good thing meaning for progression.
So I was optimistic when I joined in 1987. veteran
you know like we're we're doing all right you
know we're doing all right and we're going to
have hiccups it's it's not easy it's and every
four years you know for better or for worse we
get to see a new agenda and um it's it's still
progress i think yeah and i believe this is i
mean i you know came here from other country
myself i believe in us completely i just think
that you know it's us that's exactly the word
it needs to be us not few of them that is the
most important you know what i mean so well speaking
of leadership uh you and i got to share a plane
a couple years ago go around the the planet in
a week with a crazy group of high level operators
and athletes and crazy support staff you um and
ricky were initially doing you know the kind
of pre -op stuff so let's give an overview of
what 7x was and then we'll kind of take a a dive
into the manual and documentary that'll be coming
out very soon. Wow. Maybe you should explain
it. You're so much better at it than I am. But
I guess I'm in a position to give my best shot
as the executive director of our nonprofit, the
bird's eye view project. And the bird's eye view
project is what in the world of charities here
in the States is considered a pass through organization
where we raise money. And then we distribute
the money to a list of affiliates who are on
the ground working with veterans and first responders
in different ways to address their mental hygiene
and how they're getting along. And then ultimately,
to see if we can make a dent in this suicide
rate amongst our first responders and veterans.
So in doing that, our mechanism at the Bird's
Eye View Project is to do what we call experiential
donorship. And we put on these really fun events,
if not extreme events, where the donors will
join us for an adventure. And we'll talk about
some of the ones we have lined up in 2026. But
in particular, to what you and I shared, which
was the most magical week of my life. a lot of
magical weeks in my life but this one was absolutely
amazing so what we endeavored to do was take
these uh just world when i say world -class athletes
i mean the top tier endurance athletes and take
them around the world in seven days to go to
seven different continents run seven marathons
we also brought along um again world class it
seems like i'm diminishing the the term world
class but it's very true these pioneers in base
jumping uh and they were gonna skydive and or
base jump um on the seven continents and that
included uh you know a quick plunge so that um
we can kind of round it out and the idea was
that to put these athletes through the ringer
of seven marathons and seven days and seven different
climates seven different altitudes seven different
Everything with minimal sleep because we lived
off that airplane. And all the while gathering
data, medical and physiological and cognitive
data off of these athletes. So before there was
testing and data collected pre -event, throughout
the event, and then post -event. And then this
data. is contributing towards the greater effort
to, um, I guess like not re -engineer, but examine
what, what does the mind and the cognitive and
the emotional and the physical demands of extreme
challenges, what, what does, how does that come
about? And what are the, the chem up to including
the chemical differences when you're facing extremes?
And then The idea was our first responders and
in large part, our veterans go through this all
the time, right? And so how do we replicate it?
Well, we're going to take these athletes and
we're going to run them around the world. And
let's figure out what's going on so that we can
take that information to, again, address so many
things that are challenging these populations.
So we set off to do it. And the way we did it,
again, under the experiential donorship model
is these. Incredibly generous, patriotic, and
adventurous crew of donors came along with us.
We referred to them as VIPs during the trip.
And then each continent that we landed on, they
had an off adventure to do. And some of them,
well, all of them were amazing. Some were more
adventurous. Some were more cultural. But anyway,
we did seven and seven. Except for the Antarctica
trip, we had to postpone, but we made up for
it a year later, literally to the month. 12 months
later, we went and knocked out the Antarctica.
The first try at it got scrubbed. Unfortunately,
that was our first one. You remember that letdown?
We were in Cape Town. We were going to launch
from Cape Town. The seven -day clock was going
to start when we were wheels down in Antarctica
from Cape Town. It was the night before we were
supposed to leave for Antarctica, and it got
scrubbed. Oh, so disappointed, but we persevered.
And then to the credit of the athletes and the
base jumpers, they, they still did seven marathons.
Just one was in Cape town. And then one later
was in Cairo. So they still got all seven, um,
uh, marathons and base jumps and swims. They
got them in and, uh, we, we kept the VIPs busy,
um, in Cape town while everybody was running
and jumping off of cliffs. So, uh, yeah, then,
then we picked up, you know, from there to Perth.
All the way. That was a long flight to Dubai.
And then from Dubai, a short jump up to Cairo.
Cairo, relatively short jump up to London. And
then London, all the way to Cartagena, Colombia.
And then a short jump up to Dallas. Yeah. And
that was it. That was it. But it was such an
adventure in the medical aspect, in the performance
aspect. In fact, it was called the 7X Human Performance
Project. So in the human performance part of
watching these and studying these athletes, it
was just, it was a goldmine of information. It
was a lifetime experience for everybody. And
it all resulted in just a few weeks ago with
the documentary that was filmed throughout those
seven days. And then again, Antarctica a year
later. into this wonderful documentary. And James,
thank you, by the way, for emceeing the Q &A.
You know, this is kind of funny. I haven't seen
the movie yet. I was busy with the red carpet
shenanigans and the pomp and circumstance, but
I did catch the entire Q &A afterward that you
hosted, and it recharged my batteries. Everybody
was so involved. and emotionally attached to
their responses as you went through the different
panels it just made me fall in love all over
again it was really i didn't i didn't need to
see the movie i was there but to to watch the
athletes that was one panel and then the other
panel was the medical um and to watch them relive
the highlights and what they got out of it um
that was just the world to me you did a great
job doing that we appreciate that Well, I mean,
again, throwing it back to you, like the organization,
the whole thing was phenomenal. And we'll get
to Ryan because obviously you want to tell the
origin story too. But yeah, I helped set up that
photo booth area and then forgot to go stand
in it when I got to the event. You didn't get
a picture in front of the step and repeat. No,
no. But yeah, but if it was. So for people listening,
the documentary will be coming out soon. The
manual that Phil White helped create will be
coming out soon. Let's talk, though, about the
origin story, because, you know, for so many
of us, a lot of times these stories are written
in blood. So talk to me about Ryan, Jamie and
David. Yep. Yep. So the founder of the Bird's
Eye Views is. Ryan Birdman Parrot, a Navy SEAL
veteran. And he lost his dearest friend in the
SEAL platoon, David Metcalf, to suicide. And
Ryan was just absolutely devastated by it. And
he took that grief and he took that devastation.
God bless him. Another great Ryan that God has
put in front of me in my journey through this
life. Another amazing soul. So Ryan took that
tragedy and he said, I'm going to spend the rest
of my life trying to figure out or otherwise
make a dent in the suicide rate among veterans
and first responders. And this insanely powerful
woman, the widow of David, Jamie. has been involved
in it as well and has been nothing but inspirational
um i finally got to meet her at the at the premiere
oh no i saw her briefly at the dallas event it
was very very brief very brief because there
was a big memorial presentation at the end of
the the 7x um for dave this beautiful mural was
presented to jamie and uh anyway i got to spend
time with her uh and her family um She's one
of the most powerful, strong -willed, inspirational
women I've ever met in my life. Right up there
with my mom and my wife. Unbelievable. I cherish
every minute with her. She's so fun. And she's
arguably one of the best huggers I've ever met
in my life as well. And I've told her as much.
Yeah, so having her there was incredibly. And
then her bravery to get up there and kick off
the documentary with a testimonial about David
and about her journey and her friendship. Well,
it's more than friendship with Ryan. Really,
I thought that was really generous of her to
put herself out there in front of the entire
theater and just paint the picture. And then
to roll right into, I did catch that part, to
roll right into the. the final release was just
really set the tone and made it even more magical
than it was. Yeah, so Bird started the Bird's
Eye View project. And I got involved in the Bird's
Eye View project through the 7X. He asked myself
and one of my guys from the task force in Afghanistan
if we would go around the world and do what we
call a PDSS or a pre -deployment. site survey,
more commonly referred to as a recce, right?
That we would go to all these cities around the
world and kind of set up things that in six months
would be the journey. And that included everything
as identifying the marathon route to getting
permissions and authorities and concurrences
and from the different parts of government or
the press or the different venues for the different
things that we're trying to pull off. And most
of it worked out. Most of it worked out. It was
interesting that even, so we did six weeks traveling
around the world, kind of solidifying the plan.
And then between the time we got back and the
time of kickoff, how much can change? How much
changed from our final report to, you know, the
director of the journey, which was also one of
the guys from the task force in Afghanistan,
Bryce Hansen. Just an incredible, to call him
a project manager, it really doesn't do him justice.
He was a Green Beret commander. And he put it
all together with Ryan. And I don't know if you
knew this origin story, James, that I met. I
didn't met. We served together in Afghanistan.
But he helped me in Ukraine. And we had just
interdicted a sex trafficking criminal syndicate.
that was on its way to pick up a young lady who
had just turned 18 and pull her into the nefarious
sex trafficking, I guess, industry in Eastern
Europe. And we interdicted it. We got to her
before the goons, and we had a long road trip
back to Poland where her Canadian family, adopted
family, was waiting on her. And so we had a lot
of time to talk on that road trip. And I said,
so Bryce, what are you up to? You know, whatever.
And he's like, you wouldn't believe I'm planning
this trip around the world with these crazy athletes
and these base jumpers. We're going to do seven
continents in seven days. And I was like, if
you need help, I'm there. And he's like, careful
what you ask for. And there was only a few weeks
after we got back. He's like, hey, you remember
Ricky? I'm like, yeah, Ricky, he's great. Ricky
and I had an experience on a target one time.
It was kind of comical. And I go, yeah, Ricky's
great. And he said, well, how about you and Ricky
go do a PDSS for this massive project I'm taking
on? And so that was how I got involved. It's
amazing. Like sitting on that plane, I think
that people, when I start rattling cages, trying
to bring change, especially when it's in response
to losing lives in the first responder profession,
I don't think they understand. Like the people
in these circles that we surround ourselves with
that have served for, you know, decades in uniform
come out and then just roll up their sleeves
and go, right, what am I going to do next? How
can I help more? These are the incredible humans
that we find ourselves side by side. And, you
know, that is what drives me is I get. you know
fired up from all the people that were on the
plane all the people shay and all these other
incredible human beings you know they've been
through so much and just want to keep doing more
because they refuse to sit back shrug their shoulders
and go oh well you know they signed up for it
it's part of the job or whatever dismissive cowardly
rhetoric people want to spit but it's no it's
like hold my beer oh really we're losing people
well fuck that You know, we're going to put a
stop to that the same way as you did with the
mines. You know, people are innocent civilians
are dying in Ukraine because of these minefields.
Then let's go do something about it. So that's
what I loved about this whole mission is it wasn't
just like we do in the fire service. You know,
we're great at burying our own. And, you know,
all the pomp and circumstance and the bagpipes
and the last calls and the class A uniforms and
the tearful chief speeches. That's empty if you're
not. prepared to actually say, we need to do
everything we can to stop this happening again.
And these are the men and women that we surround
ourselves with that have the courage to actually
step up and say, I refuse to, to let, you know,
my brother or my sister die and do nothing about
it in their memory. Yeah, that was in my, the
credit for that goes to Birdman. He has many
talents. not the least of which is his ability
to corral some of the most amazing people I've
ever met. And that's why I am so proudly involved
with the Bird's Eye View project. I was enamored
by the trip, you know, even though I had a relatively
small role in it. But it inspired me to kind
of come out of retirement. And contribute more
to it. It's all I want to do is help. This is
my retirement life is I just want to help. I
have more to offer. And the Bird's Eye View project
not only surrounds me with people like lockstep
going in the same direction towards the betterment
of the first responder and the veteran community.
But along the way, it's therapeutic for me. I'm
in, you know, I didn't start using the word tribe
until that trip, James. And I've used that term
with you since then. And I absolutely stand by
that word. You know, I used to, you know, the
community or the unit or the task force or the
team or the company, you know, all the military
things. But now that it's a little bit more altruistic
because I'm not in the unit. And my unit, I'm
not saying JSOC, I'm not overselling myself.
You know, I'm just saying my unit. It absolutely
is now my tribe. It is my tribe. And I wake up
every day eager to open my emails. And I, well,
some projects I love more than others, but, you
know, dealing with everything as an executive
director at the Bird's Eye View project, I eagerly
pick up the phone from Ryan and he'll write.
it's just it's just a ball of goodness and health
emotional health and uh spiritual health yeah
it's it's exactly what i need and in turn i'd
like to think i'm contributing to the betterment
what little i i do in fact i just just reminded
me i was i received a text over the weekend a
widow of one of my guys that killed himself i
haven't heard from her in forever and uh you
know it's the holidays so it's incredibly hard
on families of any walk of life um that has gone
through tragedy let alone a suicide in their
family let alone their spouse so i couldn't imagine
what dear robin is going through right now But
she reached out to me and she said, hey, I'm
collecting pictures of Russ. Do you have any?
And at first I was just thrilled to get a text
from her. And then I realized, oh, it's the holidays.
I'll bet she's really, really struggling right
now. And then that made me in turn reflect on
the Bird's Eye View Project. This is why. This
is it. This is another reminder of however far
or however little we roll that ball forward,
whether it's in prevention or treatment or awareness
this is this is it this is another this is another
reminder this is another widow so um there's
plenty of motivation out there there's plenty
of motivation absolutely yeah and i'm fortunate
for it yeah no and that's just it now you see
that even with with healthy transitions you know
a lot of people that left the military or first
responders if they can find something else to
be a part of that still makes the world better
you know a lot of the jarring transitions i've
heard is when someone went into wall street and
they were like dude i just I miss good people.
These people are focused on money and I'm tarring
everyone with the same brush. But when you have
that mission to continue serving, whether you
wear a uniform or not anymore, it doesn't matter.
That was still your mission to make the world
better. And I think this, as you said, there's
so much to do, whether it's helping remove mines
from Ukraine or simply moving the needle on mental
health in the uniform professions. I mean, this
is what... whether you're still in or whether
you transitioned out this is how we can move
that needle forward and who better than the people
that arguably should care the most you know it's
our brothers and sisters that we're losing so
you know i think it's it's honorable to see someone
that that wore the uniform and then as they hang
it up they're like i want to do more i think
this is the ultimate calling yeah i didn't see
this coming i i uh you know when i retired um
Well, not sadly, but I fell right into cancer
treatment and coming out of that very successfully.
Thank God. Yeah, I didn't see this coming. And
I can't wait to see what the next. Everything
keeps falling into something I just really want
to dig into, it seems. And whether it's providence
or just luck or blessings, I can't wait to see.
what every other, the next month brings. It's,
it's a, it's been a nonstop adventure, even cancer
treatment, an adventure, not a good one, but
it was an adventure, um, for five years and it's
not letting up. Um, I think it's, my son's going
to be turning 16 in February. So I think a lot
of it's going to be the remaining years that
he's under this roof, the adventures of being
a teen dad of an incredible young man. Um, yeah,
I think. I mean, I keep thinking I know what's
going to be coming around the corner, but I don't.
It's great. I'm, again, blessed and lucky for
sure. Yeah. In fact, maybe that's a good way
to lead into some of the things that we're doing
next year with Bird's Eye View Project. I was
going to literally say that's a good segue. So
you already beat me to it. No, it's perfect.
That was not pre -scripted. Okay, so what's become
a bit of a hallmark since the 7X? I don't know
if we'll ever be able to top that one, the 7Con,
the Human Performance Project. But what's become
a hallmark for us is these commando fantasy weekends
that we've been doing that are so much fun. And
there's so many layers to it. But just to break
it down, the donors. come to Dallas, and then
we take them through a three -day commando fantasy
camp. And it's not a screamo. It's not an attitude
adjustment. It's more of a comedy show. The last
one we had 80 participants, and then we had 40
special operations veterans volunteering to be
the cadre and instructors and role players and
stuff like that. So basically it was like you
had 40 comedians. So it's a two -to -one ratio.
You know what I mean? Of two clients and then
one comedian, if you break it down by that metric.
And it's just so much fun. But what it is, it's
a couple days of training, and then it culminates
on a Saturday night with a full mission profile,
including a helicopter infiltration and exfiltration
onto a force -on -force target scenario through
a bunch of structures. And then a massive, what
are they calling it, MCE? Mass casualty event
that they have to fight through as a team and
just rip through some aid bags and just do what
they can before we whisk them off in a helicopter.
And then they go to their debriefing. It's gained
a ton of popularity, the complexity of it and
the variety of things. So it's, I'd say it's
like, I don't know, 80 % training and then 20
% of the exercise. and and with it so these are
the layers so one is the clients are going to
have an amazing the donors right they're going
to have an amazing time and not only do they
get to hang out with a bunch of special operations
veterans which they long for um i don't get it
but they they enjoy it i think they're just a
bunch of clowns uh but they're really they're
really really really good at what they do and
uh so they they get to you know kind of mix and
mingle and we have a social and They get to hang
out with the special operations veterans. And
coincidentally, or not coincidentally, but commensurately,
the veterans get to hang out with these amazing
patriotic and benevolent Americans that donate
a sizable donation. And they're successful business
people. And the veterans really, really get a
lot out of. hanging out with a population of
America that they may not necessarily rub elbows
with every day. And the last event on a Sunday
after the rappelling was something that Birdman
calls the war room. I call it speed dating. But
of the 40 volunteers, if they have a nonprofit
of their own, or if they're an artisan like a
knife maker or a suppressor gun suppressor company
or they offer their own training or if they wrote
a book or if they're they do artwork we set up
like a small convention hall and everybody set
up a table while everybody was out rappelling
60 feet off of this uh this building and then
when they came in they just kind of socialize
and check out everybody because everybody knows
each other like you've already done drills and
you're already shooting at each other with you
know paint balls and sim rounds and you already
did the social and so now everybody is really
intimate and we only only gave it an hour and
we ended up letting it go for like two and a
half hours you know like people were on the verge
of missing their flights because they i we didn't
want to stop that that kumbaya um cohesion that
was going on in that room you know i kept looking
at bird i'm like hey man we gotta we gotta wrap
this up and we're both you know talking about
we're like we can't interrupt this energy this
lovely uh atmosphere that was going on in this
this big room so that's one of us kind of the
networking back and forth the donors get to network
with each other i'd say about half of them are
from dallas half of them flew in from as far
as canada and florida and uh yeah and then the
donors learned some pretty rad skills you know
like home defense cqb and some really high -end
immediate trauma medicine. A lot of hemorrhage
control, shock, a little bit of airway. And then,
by the way, the donors leave with a pretty sizable
medical pack. They're trained on everything in
it, which is cool. And then at the end of the
day, it's a fun generator for the charity. And
it's fun. Now, I would argue for me personally,
what I get out of it is I'm back in the team
room. I'm back with the boys. It's like just
total team room antic jackassery. But just like
in the teams, you're going to deliver an incredibly
professional product. But you're literally crying,
laughing along the way. And it's sophomoric and
it's toilet humor, but it's, we're all, and again,
I'd say it's one third. We're police, firefighters,
EMT. The rest of us were all special operations
veterans. And there were some trauma nurses in
there, but it's just, it's like. I told the clients
as I briefed them for the full mission profile,
I said, if you ever want to be in an action movie
or wonder what it's like to be in an action scene
in a movie, as soon as you get on that helicopter
for the next 35 minutes, you're going to be in
an action film. And you're going to apply all
the skills you learned in the last two days to
it. But shock one, get over there. You got to
get in PC posture because. The birds are waiting
on you. And it's just like this massive, just
a ball of excitement and high fiving and selfies
and just a magical experience. So that was a
long preface. We're going into our, to use a
NSW term, our next evolution. Seals say that,
green berets don't say that, but I guess I do
now. So our next evolution is we're going to
do it again in 2026 in the fall. I believe we're
templating it in September. and registration
is open for that. And due to its popularity and
feedback from a lot of people, we're also going
to run a Black Ops just for women. And that's
going to be Black Ops Valkyrie. This is the first
year we're going to do that. We don't have many
female participants in the Black Ops. We do have
some, and we wish we had more. But we thought,
well, let's try one, and we'll tailor it just
for women. And in addition to all the CQB skills
and the breaching skills and the combatives and
all the medical classes, There'll also be some
stuff that we think the clients would be interested
in specific to accomplished and professional
women that they might enjoy as well. So I'm pretty
hopeful that's going to become a program of record
for us as well. And then the other line of effort
that we're working on is extreme athlete program.
And this is where Through a series of vetting
and interviews, we'll pick an extreme athlete
and we will help them raise money. And in turn,
it'll be a fund generator for us as well. As
they prepare for, we will help market whatever
stunt they want to do, an extreme sports stunt
of some kind. And we'll partner with them and
produce the event. And then in turn, the proceeds
from said event. In addition to raising awareness
and all the public appearances, you know, leading
up to the event and post event, but that will
also be a fund generator for our affiliate list
of beneficiaries from the funds that come in
for that as well. So those are all kinds of internal
things, but that's what I'm here for. So that's
what 2026 is looking like. I know that means
you and I are going to cross paths again, James,
and I treasure every minute of that to come.
for sure yeah likewise i mean again i'm just
thinking back to to 7x like in cartagena with
some of your your brothers from your team that
was a good one that was that was so much for
an englishman to be out there shooting all kinds
of weapons that was uh that was an englishman's
wet dream and then uh skydiving over the pyramids
and running you know i've just interviewed ash
who's one of the guys that met us in hyde park
when when the lads were running there so yeah
it's uh It's hard to top as far as, like you
said, the actual trip itself. But every single
time we come together, it's like no one left.
It was amazing. I want to go to where people
can find all these things and if we have any
dates on the manual and the documentary. But
just before we do, tell people listening about
Sons of the Flag, because obviously that's quite
pertinent to the fire service. Yeah, so Sons
of the Flag is another amazing nonprofit. Again,
same population, though. I believe it's, you
know, mostly firefighters, but it includes veterans
and other people, victims of fire. And it helps
pay for the research and the treatment of people
that fall into their portfolio. That was an incredibly
impersonal term. I'm sure they don't use that
term portfolio, but, you know, list of some of
the heroes that need financial assistance with
their burn treatments. So sons of the flag. Again,
Birdman, it's just right on par with him devoting
his life in a benevolent sense to help people
from the tribe. So where can people find Bird's
Eye View Project and all the other nonprofits
that we talked about today? Yep. So just like
most nonprofits, it's mostly website -based.
So tipofthespearlandmineremoval .org. It's a
long... But tip of the spear, landmine removal,
no spaces, of course, .org is the website there.
And there's donation links. And Ryan goes on
every mission. And he does a really good job
documenting the training and the landmine removal.
And also will capture the sister organization.
You know, where we're training the emergency
services, the landmine, to the spirit of landmine
removal, Ukraine. Again, a Ukraine -registered
NGO, non -government organization. So that's
a pretty active website. But Ryan does a really
good job. If you want to subscribe to some of
his content, it's really exciting because it's
him in the minefield doing stuff. And it just
blows your mind the size of a... The stones it
takes to go out in a minefield. I am not a bomb
technician. I don't recover mines. I'm just the
operations guy. But Ryan and the team go out
there. It's just absolutely inspirational. I'm
so fortunate to have met Ryan Hendrickson and
to be invited to the team. Just great. And then
most what we're talking about just now was the
bird's eye view project. So that's bird's eye
view project. No apostrophes. With yes, so birdseyeviewproject
.org. That is the website that we're just talking
about with 7X and the Black Ops. And the Black
Ops registration is open right now for Valkyrie
and for the Black Ops proper. By the way, the
Black Ops Valkyrie is templated to take place
in April. So that's going to be amazing. Yeah,
and then we also have a pretty good active social
media accounts on Instagram and Facebook as well.
And if people want to find you personally, where
are the best places? Well, my LLC is incredibly
inactive because I've partnered up with the Ryans,
as I refer to them in my family. Yeah, I guess
through either organization, I am considered
Roby at Bird's Eye View Project and Chris at
Tip the Spear Landmine Removal. Yeah. But just
visiting those two websites are primarily, I'm
also on LinkedIn, Chris Robichaud. And then only
fans account, but that's probably not appropriate
for your audience. That's it. Yeah. Brilliant.
Well, mate, I want to say thank you so much.
It's been such an amazing conversation. Obviously
went some different routes this time and rightly
so, especially obviously with the Ukraine thing
because your boots on the ground. This is the
kind of conversations I want to have, not with
someone that saw it on the news, but someone
who was actually there and whatever we're talking
about. But it was so amazing to see you a couple
of weeks ago. I'm excited to see what 2026 brings.
And I want to thank you again for being so generous
with your time and coming on the Behind the Shield
podcast. James, I will never pass up an opportunity
to see you, whether digitally. And again, this
is one of the beauties of the Bird's Eye View
project is I know I'm going to see you in person
again. I'll be able to hug you. I'll be wearing
your t -shirt with my little dog bites in the
side of it. And I absolutely treasure our friendship.
And anytime I get to see you, it's just so...
In fact, you're the first person I saw in Dallas
when I came up to the hotel. You just got in.
You've just gotten in. I treasure every minute
of it with you, brother. So good to see you.
And thank you, James, for using your platform
generously to address the concerns of what so
many of our heroes are going through. And you're
doing amazing. You are saving lives with your
mission to change the work culture in the fire
services. I love your updates. I love like, oh,
another, you know, another district or another
chief or another city has changed their their
work rest policy, their shift rotations. You're
on to something good, brother. You have momentum
and the community is better for your involvement.
So I I hope you take stock from once in every
once in a while. You're incredibly humble. But,
you know, when you're alone. I hope you take
stock. You're making an impact. And for that,
I'm grateful.