WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.200 This episode is sponsored by yet another company 00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:05.440 that I truly stand behind, and that is Levels. 00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:08.259 And Levels is going to be offering you, the Behind 00:00:08.259 --> 00:00:10.960 the Shield podcast audience, a discount that 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:13.099 I will tell you about at the end of this introduction. 00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:16.879 Now, before I even dive into what Levels does, 00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:20.620 when I had a conversation with their CEO and 00:00:20.620 --> 00:00:23.920 founder, Josh Clemente, he underlined such an 00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:27.320 important topic. So many of us rely on visits 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:30.460 to our physicians to tell us how we are doing, 00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:34.009 and that is so backward. I am an absolute believer 00:00:34.009 --> 00:00:36.969 in putting autonomy back into the hands of the 00:00:36.969 --> 00:00:39.869 individual so they can take care of their own 00:00:39.869 --> 00:00:42.950 health. Now, what Levels does is it gives us 00:00:42.950 --> 00:00:45.850 the metrics so we can see exactly how everything 00:00:45.850 --> 00:00:49.409 is internally. So they help people improve their 00:00:49.409 --> 00:00:51.689 health through continuous glucose monitoring, 00:00:52.030 --> 00:00:55.509 comprehensive lab tests, and metabolic coaching. 00:00:56.170 --> 00:00:58.549 Now through their three levels that they offer, 00:00:58.630 --> 00:01:00.969 they have programs that focus on weight loss, 00:01:01.270 --> 00:01:04.950 heart health, and glucose stability. I've now 00:01:04.950 --> 00:01:07.489 been through this program twice, and I'll kind 00:01:07.489 --> 00:01:10.150 of illustrate what it will look like. So you 00:01:10.150 --> 00:01:12.189 make an initial consultation with your levels 00:01:12.189 --> 00:01:15.870 coach. You wear a continuous blood sugar monitor 00:01:15.870 --> 00:01:20.109 for one month. You'll complete a lab panel, and 00:01:20.109 --> 00:01:23.219 I did it through Quest Diagnostics. A clinician 00:01:23.219 --> 00:01:26.319 with levels will then analyze your results and 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:29.439 give you an action plan. That's when you can 00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:32.519 then start hitting your own health goals and 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:35.739 in real time track your own progress. And then 00:01:35.739 --> 00:01:38.120 depending on the level you subscribe to, there's 00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:40.879 also a second blood work so you can now see how 00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:44.519 you're doing six months later. Now by combining 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:48.700 AI data, AI powered insights and human coaching 00:01:48.700 --> 00:01:52.870 together, 80 % of Levels members improve their 00:01:52.870 --> 00:01:56.370 biomarkers. Now, as I mentioned, Levels is offering 00:01:56.370 --> 00:01:58.650 you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast, 00:01:59.189 --> 00:02:03.109 $100 off your first order if you use the promo 00:02:03.109 --> 00:02:08.250 code SHIELD at levels .com. And if you're interested 00:02:08.250 --> 00:02:11.229 in getting Levels for your department, email 00:02:11.229 --> 00:02:14.830 Josh Clemente, the founder and CEO of Levels, 00:02:14.830 --> 00:02:20.240 at josh at levels .com. And if you want to hear 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.060 the origin story and so much more about this 00:02:23.060 --> 00:02:26.039 incredible company, listen to my interview with 00:02:26.039 --> 00:02:30.620 CEO and founder Josh Clemente on episode 1159 00:02:30.620 --> 00:02:34.659 of the Behind the Shield podcast. Welcome to 00:02:34.659 --> 00:02:36.300 the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my 00:02:36.300 --> 00:02:38.039 name is James Geering, and this week it is my 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:41.259 absolute honor to welcome on the show Navy SEAL 00:02:41.259 --> 00:02:44.879 veteran, founder of Envy Mind Health, and the 00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:48.300 co -founder of the SEAL Future Foundation, Jonathan 00:02:48.300 --> 00:02:51.560 Wilson. Now, in this conversation, we discuss 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:54.740 a host of topics, from his journey into the military, 00:02:54.979 --> 00:02:59.280 joining the SEAL teams, some notable deployments, 00:02:59.460 --> 00:03:03.900 military transition, using the world of finance 00:03:03.900 --> 00:03:08.580 to help our veterans, TBI, building a platform 00:03:08.580 --> 00:03:11.879 to help mental health in first responders, brain 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:15.080 ops, and so much more. Now, before we get to 00:03:15.080 --> 00:03:17.300 this incredible conversation, as I say every 00:03:17.300 --> 00:03:20.620 week, please just take a moment, go to whichever 00:03:20.620 --> 00:03:23.620 app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:27.469 leave feedback, and leave a rating. Every single 00:03:27.469 --> 00:03:30.629 five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast, 00:03:30.949 --> 00:03:33.349 therefore making it easier for others to find. 00:03:33.530 --> 00:03:38.349 And this is a free library of almost 1 ,200 episodes 00:03:38.349 --> 00:03:42.189 now. So all I ask in return is that you help 00:03:42.189 --> 00:03:44.849 share these incredible men and women's stories 00:03:44.849 --> 00:03:48.729 so I can get them to every single person on planet 00:03:48.729 --> 00:03:52.110 Earth who needs to hear them. So with that being 00:03:52.110 --> 00:03:57.379 said, I introduce to you, Jonathan. Wilson. Enjoy. 00:04:16.379 --> 00:04:18.959 Well, Johnny, I want to start by saying thank 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:21.439 you so much for taking the time and coming on 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:25.129 the Behind the Shield podcast today. Well, thank 00:04:25.129 --> 00:04:27.209 you for having me and appreciate what you do 00:04:27.209 --> 00:04:29.310 and the platform that you give so many people. 00:04:29.870 --> 00:04:32.149 So where on planet Earth are we finding you this 00:04:32.149 --> 00:04:34.850 afternoon? You know, if you would have asked 00:04:34.850 --> 00:04:37.990 me yesterday, I would have said Charleston. My 00:04:37.990 --> 00:04:40.189 daughter just started her freshman year at Charleston, 00:04:40.250 --> 00:04:42.449 South Carolina, so College of Charleston. But 00:04:42.449 --> 00:04:44.990 we're back home. I live in Parker, Colorado, 00:04:45.129 --> 00:04:47.920 just south of Denver. Beautiful. Well, congratulations 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:49.800 to your daughter for us. That's amazing. I've 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:51.600 got a freshman in my head. He's at community 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:53.040 college at the moment, but he's hoping to go 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:56.480 to Utah in a couple of years. Oh, amazing. Exciting 00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:59.300 times. That's a great school. Now, have you got 00:04:59.300 --> 00:05:05.160 kids at home still? I do. So I have five. Oldest, 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:09.420 she just started Brooklyn Law School. And she's 00:05:09.420 --> 00:05:11.180 knocking it out of the park there. She's our 00:05:11.180 --> 00:05:13.860 oldest daughter. My oldest son, he goes to community 00:05:13.860 --> 00:05:18.519 college looking to go to Colorado State. So he's 00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:20.600 up in Fort Collins right now. And then we have 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:23.740 our next oldest daughter is at College of Charleston 00:05:23.740 --> 00:05:25.860 and then two in the house. I got a 16 -year -old 00:05:25.860 --> 00:05:31.939 going on 23. She's a junior. And then we have 00:05:31.939 --> 00:05:35.759 a freshman, a 14 -year -old little guy. Always 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:38.490 be the little guy. Yeah, absolutely. When my 00:05:38.490 --> 00:05:40.769 son was, he was supposed to go to, well not supposed 00:05:40.769 --> 00:05:43.449 to, he got accepted to Utah State in his freshman 00:05:43.449 --> 00:05:46.170 year, but financially it just made a lot more 00:05:46.170 --> 00:05:48.730 sense for him to do the first two here. But I 00:05:48.730 --> 00:05:54.949 totally underestimated how much, I don't know, 00:05:54.970 --> 00:05:58.670 like how anxious I would be about this whole 00:05:58.670 --> 00:06:01.240 empty nest thing. And now I got a reprieve. I 00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:03.040 got an extra two years with him before he walks 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:06.620 out the door. But it blew me away. We talk about 00:06:06.620 --> 00:06:08.800 midlife crises and even mental health in our 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:11.079 professions. And that's one of the things that 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:13.060 we forget. We have purpose when we're parents. 00:06:13.160 --> 00:06:15.319 And it's not that you stop being a parent, but 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:17.740 you're not a full -time hands -on parent anymore 00:06:17.740 --> 00:06:22.199 when they walk out the door. I was so blown away 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:24.779 how powerful the emotions were when it was this 00:06:24.779 --> 00:06:28.529 impending date. Well, we're going to have to 00:06:28.529 --> 00:06:31.730 stay close because four years is not that far 00:06:31.730 --> 00:06:33.750 and those feelings are already starting to creep 00:06:33.750 --> 00:06:35.750 in and I never thought they would to your point. 00:06:36.189 --> 00:06:38.949 Somebody mentioned you only have two in the house. 00:06:39.170 --> 00:06:42.550 Like your youngest is a freshman in high school 00:06:42.550 --> 00:06:44.430 and then it just dawned on me. It's like, holy 00:06:44.430 --> 00:06:47.569 crap, in four years, what are we going to do? 00:06:47.629 --> 00:06:50.230 We have this massive farm here in Parker, Colorado. 00:06:50.250 --> 00:06:52.009 We got horses, pigs, chickens. We built this 00:06:52.009 --> 00:06:54.899 whole life for our children. And then it's me 00:06:54.899 --> 00:06:58.079 and my wife in this ranch house, like this monster 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:00.600 house. We need to start thinking about, is this 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:04.759 where we want to be in four years? I get why 00:07:04.759 --> 00:07:06.480 people move and they follow their children. I 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:08.420 get why people downsize. It's like all these 00:07:08.420 --> 00:07:12.079 emotions are starting to hit me as well. So we 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:14.819 can be swim buddies in that regards when it comes 00:07:14.819 --> 00:07:18.060 to our children. Absolutely. Perfect. Well, speaking 00:07:18.060 --> 00:07:20.360 of children, let's get to the beginning of your 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:22.860 kind of timeline. So tell me where you were born 00:07:22.860 --> 00:07:24.959 and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, 00:07:25.180 --> 00:07:28.740 what your parents did, how many siblings? Yeah, 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:32.600 so I was born in Fort Hood or Killeen, Texas. 00:07:32.660 --> 00:07:35.839 My dad was in the army. So he was a military 00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:37.959 police officer. He did a few things, but that 00:07:37.959 --> 00:07:42.480 was his role. And my mom is from the country 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:49.529 Panama. We immediately after I was born in Texas, 00:07:49.550 --> 00:07:53.129 we moved to Panama for a few years. And then 00:07:53.129 --> 00:07:56.089 we kind of hopped around. Typical military family. 00:07:56.269 --> 00:07:59.009 I spent time in the Netherlands, which was amazing. 00:07:59.250 --> 00:08:03.430 I was somewhat young. I was probably, let's see, 00:08:03.430 --> 00:08:07.750 in the Netherlands or right before high school. 00:08:09.870 --> 00:08:13.350 And we spent a few years there. I have a younger 00:08:13.350 --> 00:08:16.600 sister. She's five years younger than me. So 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:19.459 I have one sibling, and she's done a tremendous 00:08:19.459 --> 00:08:25.399 job, very successful. She does PR, and she lives 00:08:25.399 --> 00:08:28.639 in Bordeaux now. She's married a great guy, a 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:32.820 Frenchman, and they have beautiful three boys. 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:35.960 So we occasionally get to spend time with her 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:39.600 and her companies. They've got locations in Paris 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:46.159 and New York. So she's the breadwinner. in our 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:49.919 relationship, if you will. But her husband's 00:08:49.919 --> 00:08:53.200 the CEO of multiple AI companies. So he's done 00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:56.120 pretty well for himself as well. We've lived 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:58.379 in Bangor, Maine, which is like the claim to 00:08:58.379 --> 00:09:01.039 fame there is Stephen King. The author has a 00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:03.000 place there and it's exactly what you would think. 00:09:03.059 --> 00:09:06.419 All the kids were. We were probably like seven 00:09:06.419 --> 00:09:09.000 or eight years old. We would run up to his house 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:11.559 and it had wrought iron fences with gargoyle 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:13.960 statues and like steeples on the building. And 00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:16.259 it was just every house on the street was lit 00:09:16.259 --> 00:09:18.379 up and beautiful. And this one had like a lightning 00:09:18.379 --> 00:09:21.559 storm right around it, which you would think, 00:09:21.559 --> 00:09:23.080 or at least that's what I remember as a kid. 00:09:23.139 --> 00:09:26.259 And we would always talk about that. And then 00:09:26.259 --> 00:09:28.220 I went to high school in Tennessee. I played 00:09:28.220 --> 00:09:31.360 football there. And then my trajectory after 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:34.779 that was initially the Naval Academy Prep School 00:09:34.779 --> 00:09:38.059 and the Naval Academy. And then I got in a little 00:09:38.059 --> 00:09:41.629 bit of trouble there, but I'll stop there. Going 00:09:41.629 --> 00:09:45.769 back to the childhood of moving around, it's 00:09:45.769 --> 00:09:47.929 so interesting, I think, when people get out 00:09:47.929 --> 00:09:50.370 of their echo chamber and start looking at the 00:09:50.370 --> 00:09:52.509 other world. Firstly, kind of disproving a lot 00:09:52.509 --> 00:09:55.669 of the ridiculous myths, like, for example, you 00:09:55.669 --> 00:09:57.590 know, the French are always rude. There's one 00:09:57.590 --> 00:09:59.149 thing we were told in England, and then you go 00:09:59.149 --> 00:10:00.850 to France, and like, wait a second, everyone's 00:10:00.850 --> 00:10:02.870 nice here apart from the dickheads, just the 00:10:02.870 --> 00:10:06.909 same as back home. But there are so many, you 00:10:06.909 --> 00:10:08.769 know, beautiful elements of certain cultures. 00:10:09.289 --> 00:10:10.929 When you reflect back now, whether it was the 00:10:10.929 --> 00:10:14.090 Netherlands or just other places, what was some 00:10:14.090 --> 00:10:16.090 of the kind of highlights that were beautiful 00:10:16.090 --> 00:10:18.230 about it? And then if any, what was some of the 00:10:18.230 --> 00:10:24.559 opposite, some of the bad things? Yeah. We were 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:27.899 young and as mentioned earlier, but I really 00:10:27.899 --> 00:10:30.419 have fond memories of our time, you know, the 00:10:30.419 --> 00:10:32.899 five years we spent overseas and just the ease 00:10:32.899 --> 00:10:35.879 of being able to move from country to country, 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:39.440 experiencing those cultures and subcultures to 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:43.159 your point within those cultures. I mean, just 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:46.440 some of the coolest things our parents took us 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:49.860 to. We went to the Alps. We went to the Eagle's 00:10:49.860 --> 00:10:55.830 Nest. We're obviously. Hitler had his last stand, 00:10:55.850 --> 00:10:58.649 if you will, or so the conspiracy theorists think 00:10:58.649 --> 00:11:02.149 otherwise. But who knows? Nevertheless, we did 00:11:02.149 --> 00:11:05.549 Disney. We went to England, spent time over there, 00:11:05.610 --> 00:11:08.350 the castles, the churches. I mean, we just it 00:11:08.350 --> 00:11:12.830 was so amazing. And I didn't realize what we 00:11:12.830 --> 00:11:16.330 had. Right. I come here and I look back and I 00:11:16.330 --> 00:11:18.090 was like, my gosh, my parents really invested 00:11:18.090 --> 00:11:21.029 a lot of time and energy, exposed me to the world. 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:24.220 I was so young. Now I can appreciate it. Back 00:11:24.220 --> 00:11:27.440 then, I just wanted to – I mean if I had an iPad, 00:11:27.620 --> 00:11:29.360 I'd probably be stuck on my iPad. But I just 00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:31.879 wanted to be back at the hotel or watching a 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:35.440 cartoon or something. But I do have some fond 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:41.340 memories of that. My parents ended up getting 00:11:41.340 --> 00:11:44.700 divorced and I think that's become pretty common 00:11:44.700 --> 00:11:50.799 in our culture. Deployments weigh on families, 00:11:51.139 --> 00:11:54.399 on relationships, and my dad was gone quite a 00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:59.179 bit. So for me, it just became standard. It was 00:11:59.179 --> 00:12:02.350 what we knew. He was always on deployment. travel 00:12:02.350 --> 00:12:05.070 overseas. Uh, when we were in the U S in Tennessee, 00:12:05.210 --> 00:12:07.950 he would take on year long deployments and inevitably 00:12:07.950 --> 00:12:11.149 that just, uh, the tensions, uh, just, um, it 00:12:11.149 --> 00:12:14.029 broke the family, uh, or at least the relationship. 00:12:14.230 --> 00:12:16.250 And, um, you know, I have a relationship with 00:12:16.250 --> 00:12:19.409 both my parents. They're great. Um, I, I'm going 00:12:19.409 --> 00:12:22.309 to see my mom next week for two weeks for Thanksgiving. 00:12:22.509 --> 00:12:25.669 Uh, I'm excited about seeing that. Um, but I 00:12:25.669 --> 00:12:29.690 think, you know, I don't really have really dark 00:12:29.690 --> 00:12:32.830 or you know upsetting memories i think uh it's 00:12:32.830 --> 00:12:35.330 probably similar to most you know i i don't want 00:12:35.330 --> 00:12:38.690 to say that but uh for us it was uh my parents 00:12:38.690 --> 00:12:41.129 really cared about us and exposed us to the world 00:12:41.129 --> 00:12:43.509 and i'm really grateful for that i mean even 00:12:43.509 --> 00:12:46.690 like i we didn't have football overseas but we 00:12:46.690 --> 00:12:49.230 had swimming swimming's a massive sport and we 00:12:49.230 --> 00:12:51.210 that they invest a lot of time and energy into 00:12:51.210 --> 00:12:56.169 and man i I mean, we were swimming in Munich 00:12:56.169 --> 00:12:58.230 in the same pool that they swam the Olympics 00:12:58.230 --> 00:13:00.370 in. And that was the coolest thing. We had our 00:13:00.370 --> 00:13:03.210 version of the mini Olympics for youth and the 00:13:03.210 --> 00:13:05.669 camps they sent us to. And it was just endless. 00:13:05.809 --> 00:13:10.809 I had great parents. When you reflect back, seeing 00:13:10.809 --> 00:13:13.649 as we're on this topic, understanding that so 00:13:13.649 --> 00:13:17.230 many of us in uniform had trauma, struggles, 00:13:17.529 --> 00:13:19.809 however you want to label it. in earlier life 00:13:19.809 --> 00:13:21.789 and a lot of times that sent us into wanting 00:13:21.789 --> 00:13:23.830 to be the protector or wanting to be the fixer. 00:13:24.309 --> 00:13:27.190 Were there any elements of your early life you 00:13:27.190 --> 00:13:29.070 think that contributed to your struggles later 00:13:29.070 --> 00:13:34.500 on? I mean, as I got... As I got older, my dad 00:13:34.500 --> 00:13:38.039 and I had a tense relationship. I think the testosterone 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:41.080 started flowing and he was gone quite a bit. 00:13:41.220 --> 00:13:44.179 And when he came back, he tried to assert himself 00:13:44.179 --> 00:13:47.519 and I appreciate what he was doing now. But back 00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:50.039 then there was tension there. So I don't know 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:55.519 if it was – we had a strained relationship through 00:13:55.519 --> 00:14:00.000 my high school years. And it's again like we 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:03.220 have a good relationship now. But I think there 00:14:03.220 --> 00:14:06.419 wasn't really traumas. I mean, we did have some 00:14:06.419 --> 00:14:11.840 challenges over silly things. Like, I mean, you 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:14.279 think about my ego and probably his as well, 00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:18.000 if we're being honest. But my mom had bought 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:20.120 me some sneakers, like, you know, back then, 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:22.080 maybe some Air Jordans or something like that. 00:14:22.179 --> 00:14:25.840 And my dad just threw them on when I was in high 00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:28.779 school to go cut the grass. And I was like, what 00:14:28.779 --> 00:14:33.850 the hell are you doing, Dad? He's my dad, so 00:14:33.850 --> 00:14:36.409 I'm getting upset. He's getting upset. It escalates. 00:14:37.149 --> 00:14:39.870 The next thing you know, we're calling the cops. 00:14:42.370 --> 00:14:44.309 I'm not trying to downplay some of this stuff. 00:14:44.710 --> 00:14:47.230 I think there were some tense moments in our 00:14:47.230 --> 00:14:52.269 relationship through my high school years. A 00:14:52.269 --> 00:14:56.750 lot of that lies with him, but a lot of that 00:14:56.750 --> 00:14:59.340 lies with me as well. I don't think there was 00:14:59.340 --> 00:15:01.960 anything massively traumatic that took place. 00:15:03.580 --> 00:15:07.940 I do recognize that I wanted to please him despite 00:15:07.940 --> 00:15:12.659 all of that. And a lot of, as we start getting 00:15:12.659 --> 00:15:14.879 into my background, the things that I've done, 00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:20.279 the Ivy League schools, the Navy SEALs, the employment, 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:23.080 I think I recognize now that's part of me trying 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:26.000 to win him over and show him that I am a worthy. 00:15:27.139 --> 00:15:30.279 man and it's interesting as we've gotten older 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:34.779 to reflect on that it's like wow okay but I do 00:15:34.779 --> 00:15:38.059 I do start I am starting to recognize that pattern 00:15:38.059 --> 00:15:41.980 throughout my life of always trying to do the 00:15:41.980 --> 00:15:44.679 next best thing to overachieve and then to click 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:47.399 it a layer deeper why am I doing that well probably 00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:49.059 has something to do with the strained relationship 00:15:49.059 --> 00:15:52.200 that I had in those years with my father It's 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:53.980 funny how many people have come on the show that, 00:15:53.980 --> 00:15:55.840 you know, high performers in whatever world, 00:15:55.860 --> 00:15:57.919 and there's an element of that, whatever their 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:01.500 backstory is. And you ask them, was it ever enough? 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:05.299 And they all say no, because there is no thing 00:16:05.299 --> 00:16:06.879 that's going to fill it. Now, if you're doing 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:09.799 it purely for the right reasons, and it's an 00:16:09.799 --> 00:16:12.720 intrinsic, you know, factor, then absolutely. 00:16:12.980 --> 00:16:14.539 But the moment you're looking for validation 00:16:14.539 --> 00:16:17.259 from parents or, you know, society or whatever 00:16:17.259 --> 00:16:19.419 it is, you just, you know, it's never enough 00:16:19.419 --> 00:16:22.500 money, never enough accolades. And you're on 00:16:22.500 --> 00:16:24.580 a treadmill that you're never going to beat. 00:16:26.059 --> 00:16:28.480 Yeah. And that's been a challenge for a lot of 00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:31.059 my peers. And I imagine, to your point, the folks 00:16:31.059 --> 00:16:34.720 that you've had on. And it's like, I don't know. 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:37.980 I've gotten better through some of the tools 00:16:37.980 --> 00:16:41.440 that we talked about, plant medicine and what 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:43.639 we're creating here at Envy, just awareness, 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:47.320 being around some of the best doctors out there. 00:16:47.620 --> 00:16:50.080 It's still hard to shut it off. I'll sit here 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:51.950 and say, hey, yeah, I'm going to. I'm going to 00:16:51.950 --> 00:16:53.590 go do my breathwork session and I'm going to 00:16:53.590 --> 00:16:55.549 slow down this week. And the reality is like 00:16:55.549 --> 00:16:58.570 I've been doing this for so damn long. It's really 00:16:58.570 --> 00:17:00.950 freaking hard to shut it down. And we talked 00:17:00.950 --> 00:17:04.289 about our children too and them being empty nesters 00:17:04.289 --> 00:17:08.950 and this vision of like retirement down the road 00:17:08.950 --> 00:17:12.529 at some point. It's like can I really do that? 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:17.359 Is my body capable of doing that? And then you 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:19.259 hear the horror stories of people that get to 00:17:19.259 --> 00:17:20.960 that spot and they're like, we finally did it. 00:17:22.059 --> 00:17:24.319 It's so sad, but they keel over and they fucking 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:27.779 die, right? Like their body just doesn't know 00:17:27.779 --> 00:17:29.700 what's going on. It's a shock to the system. 00:17:29.779 --> 00:17:31.640 What are you doing sitting on the couch? What 00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:34.019 are you doing not like running an ultra marathon? 00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:35.900 What are you doing not going to business school? 00:17:35.980 --> 00:17:39.299 What are you doing not – so yeah, these are all 00:17:39.299 --> 00:17:43.299 new thoughts and feelings. that we've loosely 00:17:43.299 --> 00:17:45.319 touched on, but that are starting to come into 00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:47.619 my life. So I'm like, oh boy, we got this whole 00:17:47.619 --> 00:17:49.140 new set of problems that we're going to have 00:17:49.140 --> 00:17:51.400 to deal with here shortly. I think we've got 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:53.539 a skewed perspective on retirement too, though. 00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:55.000 I mean, you're just talking about Stephen King. 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:57.279 He's still writing books. You know what I mean? 00:17:57.339 --> 00:18:00.059 He's in his, what, late 70s, early 80s now, I 00:18:00.059 --> 00:18:02.380 think. Sorry, Stephen, if I got that wrong, you 00:18:02.380 --> 00:18:04.019 happen to be listening to this random podcast. 00:18:04.900 --> 00:18:08.119 But it's true. I mean, you look at more native 00:18:08.119 --> 00:18:10.619 tribes, their elders aren't just, you know, watching 00:18:10.619 --> 00:18:13.240 TV all day. they're still out there you know 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:16.619 being amongst the you know the younger tribesmen 00:18:16.619 --> 00:18:18.460 are mentoring and if you look at a lot of them 00:18:18.460 --> 00:18:20.720 you know they're still out there farming or hunting 00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:24.579 or so i think we've also got this distorted kind 00:18:24.579 --> 00:18:27.680 of perspective that you hit 55 60 and then you 00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:30.240 just go play golf and wait to die i think if 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:31.740 you lose your purpose which we know we're going 00:18:31.740 --> 00:18:34.299 to get to then what is there to live for then 00:18:34.299 --> 00:18:40.309 that's so true yeah i agree with that um I mean 00:18:40.309 --> 00:18:43.869 in the society and marketing and all these companies, 00:18:43.970 --> 00:18:45.829 they paint this vision of what retirement should 00:18:45.829 --> 00:18:50.750 look like. But I mean I think seldom have I adhered 00:18:50.750 --> 00:18:53.809 to what the world tells me I should do or what 00:18:53.809 --> 00:18:56.069 I need to do, right? It's always like I question 00:18:56.069 --> 00:18:58.130 things constantly. It's like that's just not 00:18:58.130 --> 00:19:00.869 a fit for me. Like this is my purpose and then 00:19:00.869 --> 00:19:02.930 everything aligns behind it. So I agree with 00:19:02.930 --> 00:19:06.420 that. Well, you mentioned about playing football 00:19:06.420 --> 00:19:08.640 and some of the other sports that you participated 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:11.539 in. When you were in the high school level, were 00:19:11.539 --> 00:19:13.500 you already dreaming of the SEALs or was there 00:19:13.500 --> 00:19:17.519 something else in your mind? Actually, it was 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:21.799 the Army and it was my father. And I think it 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:23.980 was my freshman or sophomore year. My father 00:19:23.980 --> 00:19:27.000 was stationed. So this is middle of the 90s, 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:33.450 stationed in Kuwait. And there's none of this 00:19:33.450 --> 00:19:36.150 going on. So he calls and talks to my mom and 00:19:36.150 --> 00:19:39.269 says, hey, I'm going to buy a plane ticket and 00:19:39.269 --> 00:19:42.190 I want him to come out and visit me, him being 00:19:42.190 --> 00:19:45.430 me. And I was against it. I had my first girlfriend. 00:19:45.950 --> 00:19:49.410 I just didn't want any part of flying to the 00:19:49.410 --> 00:19:51.369 Middle East and hanging out with my dad for a 00:19:51.369 --> 00:19:53.410 month. I wanted to do – we're in Tennessee. I 00:19:53.410 --> 00:19:57.240 wanted to keep doing the barn parties. and hanging 00:19:57.240 --> 00:19:59.339 with my girlfriend and friends. But nevertheless, 00:19:59.500 --> 00:20:02.079 I hopped on that plane with a paper ticket, hopped 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:05.400 on that plane and flew over there. And I acted 00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:10.480 like a punk. I don't know another way to describe 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:15.359 it. He sent me out there and I just pouted. I 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:16.960 didn't talk to him for the first couple of days. 00:20:17.900 --> 00:20:20.339 And he just went through the motions, like introducing 00:20:20.339 --> 00:20:24.200 me to peers, like sharing who I was. And I remember 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:27.450 on the second or third day, And we drive on to 00:20:27.450 --> 00:20:29.470 the base and off to the right there was a – and 00:20:29.470 --> 00:20:31.789 I had never seen the gate open before. But at 00:20:31.789 --> 00:20:34.450 this very moment, the gate was open and it was 00:20:34.450 --> 00:20:37.849 closing. It was a blacked out compound. The fence 00:20:37.849 --> 00:20:40.369 was blacked out. And I look inside and I just 00:20:40.369 --> 00:20:44.829 see all these men with guns and weights and in 00:20:44.829 --> 00:20:47.509 great shape and beards and long hair. And I'm 00:20:47.509 --> 00:20:50.009 like, dad, who are those guys? He said, those 00:20:50.009 --> 00:20:53.190 are the Navy SEALs. I was like, dad, what's a 00:20:53.190 --> 00:20:55.720 Navy SEAL? Because back then, I mean, there was 00:20:55.720 --> 00:20:58.279 no books or TV shows, Netflix documentary. I 00:20:58.279 --> 00:21:02.880 mean, there was nothing, right? So he ended up 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:04.819 taking me over there and introduced me to those 00:21:04.819 --> 00:21:08.940 guys. And they basically took me under their 00:21:08.940 --> 00:21:10.680 wing. I got to talk to them. I got to hang out 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:12.299 with them. I asked a bunch of questions. And 00:21:12.299 --> 00:21:14.319 from that moment on, everything centered around 00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:17.579 how do I get there. I hated running. I started 00:21:17.579 --> 00:21:20.079 running to football practice. Four miles there, 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:22.039 four miles back. I didn't know how to swim. I 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:24.559 became a lifeguard just so I could get the laps 00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:27.119 in at the pool. I used to ride my bike just to 00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:30.880 get my cardio up 15 miles to lifeguard, swim 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:33.220 laps after work, and then ride my bike home. 00:21:34.970 --> 00:21:36.670 How do I get to the academy? Like, what are the 00:21:36.670 --> 00:21:38.710 things I need to do? Everything. I got super 00:21:38.710 --> 00:21:41.069 disciplined and everything became like, how do 00:21:41.069 --> 00:21:44.089 I make this dream of mine? How do I become a 00:21:44.089 --> 00:21:46.410 part of something like that is better said. Not 00:21:46.410 --> 00:21:48.390 a dream. It was just like, I witnessed something 00:21:48.390 --> 00:21:52.049 special there that summer. And I didn't know 00:21:52.049 --> 00:21:53.910 anything else that existed that came close to 00:21:53.910 --> 00:21:57.309 that. That camaraderie, that brotherhood. I mean, 00:21:57.309 --> 00:22:00.210 just the fun, the poking fun. It was just like, 00:22:00.289 --> 00:22:02.549 it was so cool to witness. And I was like, this 00:22:02.549 --> 00:22:06.619 is what I want to do. So talk to me about the 00:22:06.619 --> 00:22:10.259 journey then. You mentioned college, playing 00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:12.519 football. So how did that kind of end up being 00:22:12.519 --> 00:22:16.980 at Bud's? Yep. So I ended up getting picked up 00:22:16.980 --> 00:22:19.299 not directly to the Naval Academy, but to the 00:22:19.299 --> 00:22:22.400 Naval Academy Prep School in Newport, Rhode Island. 00:22:22.579 --> 00:22:27.390 So I spent a year there. And that was... That 00:22:27.390 --> 00:22:29.390 was a fun experience. I mean, it was the first 00:22:29.390 --> 00:22:31.230 time I'm away from home at an extended period 00:22:31.230 --> 00:22:33.269 of time. And there's a bunch of folks like me 00:22:33.269 --> 00:22:35.210 around the country showing up wanting to go to 00:22:35.210 --> 00:22:37.990 the academy, either the Coast Guard Academy, 00:22:38.250 --> 00:22:40.509 Naval Academy or the Merchant Marine Academy. 00:22:40.549 --> 00:22:43.589 And it's just good people. And I mean, that first 00:22:43.589 --> 00:22:46.529 six weeks of it was kind of like plebe summer 00:22:46.529 --> 00:22:49.630 to their version of boot camp was miserable. 00:22:49.670 --> 00:22:53.619 Like I. um people just breaking you down and 00:22:53.619 --> 00:22:56.079 and me wanting to quit i didn't want any part 00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:59.960 of it i just kept enduring and then um and then 00:22:59.960 --> 00:23:01.900 we spent a year there doing the academics making 00:23:01.900 --> 00:23:05.539 sure that we had the ability to uh you know do 00:23:05.539 --> 00:23:07.640 the academics well enough to get into the academy 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:10.099 and if we scored above a 2 .0 which i ended up 00:23:10.099 --> 00:23:15.210 doing like a 2 .1 by the way um Then you can 00:23:15.210 --> 00:23:16.930 go to the academy and it came down to my last 00:23:16.930 --> 00:23:18.809 exam and that's no bullshit. It came down to 00:23:18.809 --> 00:23:21.670 my last exam because I partied my tail off while 00:23:21.670 --> 00:23:24.650 I was there. Newport, Rhode Island back in the 00:23:24.650 --> 00:23:28.109 90s, they didn't card people. Like you show up 00:23:28.109 --> 00:23:31.109 and same street was notorious. It's a bunch of 00:23:31.109 --> 00:23:34.369 Irish bars and we would just go there week after 00:23:34.369 --> 00:23:37.849 week and occasionally go to Providence and we 00:23:37.849 --> 00:23:40.710 just had a blast. Too much fun. But then I got 00:23:40.710 --> 00:23:43.029 to the academy and that kind of mindset continued. 00:23:43.190 --> 00:23:47.230 I was more of like focused on – I got distracted 00:23:47.230 --> 00:23:50.069 if you will. I forgot what my – why I was there 00:23:50.069 --> 00:23:53.710 and my priority became let's go out and have 00:23:53.710 --> 00:23:57.980 a good time. Let's go out and party. Let's skate 00:23:57.980 --> 00:23:59.920 through essentially. And that's what I was doing. 00:24:00.339 --> 00:24:02.920 There's no way in hell if I would have stayed 00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:05.140 at the academy that I would have been selected 00:24:05.140 --> 00:24:08.960 to have one of the few coveted billets from the 00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:13.759 academy to go to Bud's. But God has a plan and 00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:16.099 his plan wasn't the Naval Academy for me. It 00:24:16.099 --> 00:24:18.619 was getting kicked out of the Naval Academy actually. 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:21.579 And then that's kind of the pinch I needed to 00:24:21.579 --> 00:24:27.630 get my life back on track. I, in transparency, 00:24:28.210 --> 00:24:31.529 kind of fell into a depression. I lost this dream 00:24:31.529 --> 00:24:35.230 of being at the Naval Academy and becoming a 00:24:35.230 --> 00:24:38.569 SEAL, but it reminded me of why I was there. 00:24:38.750 --> 00:24:42.630 And I started working extremely hard, super disciplined, 00:24:42.750 --> 00:24:47.930 quit drinking. I started working out like crazy 00:24:47.930 --> 00:24:55.140 and I had to overcome the fact that A lot of 00:24:55.140 --> 00:24:58.019 people saw me as somebody that had gotten kicked 00:24:58.019 --> 00:24:59.819 out of the academy and was probably like a problem 00:24:59.819 --> 00:25:02.140 child, if you will, and didn't want to give me 00:25:02.140 --> 00:25:05.579 the opportunity to even come into the Navy, which 00:25:05.579 --> 00:25:08.240 was interesting. But I eventually got a recommendation 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:10.980 and was given an opportunity to come in under 00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:14.380 a SEAL billet and got through boot camp. I went 00:25:14.380 --> 00:25:16.180 on the enlisted side, went through boot camp, 00:25:16.220 --> 00:25:19.039 and then got the opportunity to go to Bud's and 00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:23.299 showed up to Bud's class 252. and was one of 00:25:23.299 --> 00:25:24.859 the lucky few to get through the first time. 00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:28.019 When you reflect back now, when you've talked 00:25:28.019 --> 00:25:30.380 about, you know, living in different locations, 00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:34.220 your sporting achievements, so many of the SEALs 00:25:34.220 --> 00:25:36.460 I've had on the show have kind of debunked the 00:25:36.460 --> 00:25:38.779 myth that the average Navy SEAL is, you know, 00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:41.819 six foot eight and 300 pounds and 2 % body weight. 00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:45.279 You know, these are normal, you know, men in 00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:47.700 this case, but there's that, you know, more often 00:25:47.700 --> 00:25:49.700 than not, there's that mental element more so 00:25:49.700 --> 00:25:52.910 than the physical element even. What were the 00:25:52.910 --> 00:25:55.849 contributing factors that allowed you not to 00:25:55.849 --> 00:25:59.210 ring the bell when so many others did? Yeah. 00:25:59.349 --> 00:26:03.490 So just to level set for everybody, 6 '7", I'm 00:26:03.490 --> 00:26:06.769 280 pounds and 3 % body fat. I'm just kidding. 00:26:07.690 --> 00:26:15.980 Me too. I've mentored a few folks over the years 00:26:15.980 --> 00:26:18.359 and they all ask that. And actually, I'll take 00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:21.059 one step back. There is a Gallup study because 00:26:21.059 --> 00:26:23.680 the Navy wants to identify who these candidates 00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:25.940 are that are going to get through, right? It's 00:26:25.940 --> 00:26:28.420 extremely expensive for somebody to show up to 00:26:28.420 --> 00:26:31.180 BUDS, go through training only to deal our drop 00:26:31.180 --> 00:26:35.119 -on request. And the last study I saw, and this 00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:36.660 is probably 10 years ago, and I'm pretty sure 00:26:36.660 --> 00:26:38.500 they've done a significant amount of work since 00:26:38.500 --> 00:26:40.980 then, but it was a Gallup study and it was 30 00:26:40.980 --> 00:26:44.299 -some -odd pages. It analyzed everything from 00:26:44.299 --> 00:26:46.660 where they came from, their upbringing, were 00:26:46.660 --> 00:26:48.579 their parents still married, the sports that 00:26:48.579 --> 00:26:51.180 they played, the academics. I mean, it looked 00:26:51.180 --> 00:26:53.640 at everything and then ran an analysis on it. 00:26:53.859 --> 00:26:56.880 And the closing sentence I thought was pretty 00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:59.720 funny. So you're thinking, OK, maybe they're 00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:01.779 going to tell us what type of candidate this 00:27:01.779 --> 00:27:06.640 person, if they're 5 '10", 6 '1", they weigh 00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:08.240 this much, they're from this type of family, 00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:11.220 they're this religion. The last Senate said, 00:27:11.380 --> 00:27:14.700 we identified that the people that make it through 00:27:14.700 --> 00:27:17.299 this SEAL training are the individuals that have 00:27:17.299 --> 00:27:19.779 the mental fortitude and grit that the other 00:27:19.779 --> 00:27:21.740 candidates don't have. And I'm like, how much 00:27:21.740 --> 00:27:25.839 money did they pay the Gallup study? Like, I'm 00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:27.599 in the wrong line of work. I could have told 00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:30.180 you that. What does that even mean? But there 00:27:30.180 --> 00:27:32.380 is some truth to that. And I think you alluded 00:27:32.380 --> 00:27:36.960 to it. For me and my peers, there were 16 of 00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:41.660 us. Out of 200 plus that showed up, 16 of the 00:27:41.660 --> 00:27:44.819 original folks that showed up that ended up making 00:27:44.819 --> 00:27:47.859 it through the first time. Some of those people 00:27:47.859 --> 00:27:49.960 got hurt and got a second opportunity and made 00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:53.339 it through, but 16 of us. When I talk to those 00:27:53.339 --> 00:27:57.220 folks, we always ask ourselves, what was it for 00:27:57.220 --> 00:28:00.339 you? Try to talk about upbringing. A lot of these 00:28:00.339 --> 00:28:02.240 folks do have some challenging upbringings, to 00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:06.559 your point. But the thing was, is they gave themselves 00:28:06.559 --> 00:28:08.960 one option. And that was true for me as well. 00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:12.319 It really was like, if you give yourself another 00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:15.720 freaking option, this is human nature. We're 00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.200 going to go down the easier route at some point. 00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:20.339 When it becomes overwhelming, when it becomes 00:28:20.339 --> 00:28:23.619 so freaking hard, humans are going to take that 00:28:23.619 --> 00:28:26.279 softer, easier, warmer route almost every single 00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:29.220 time. And our crew didn't do that. It was like, 00:28:29.299 --> 00:28:32.769 we either graduate or we die. Right. Period. 00:28:32.950 --> 00:28:34.630 End of statement. And that was the mentality. 00:28:34.910 --> 00:28:39.950 It really was. I didn't even for once think that 00:28:39.950 --> 00:28:42.710 I could ring the bell. Like it just never it 00:28:42.710 --> 00:28:45.890 never crossed my mindset. And there was a lot 00:28:45.890 --> 00:28:50.009 of times when it sucked. It sucked miserably. 00:28:50.089 --> 00:28:52.549 But again, like I reflect back and there wasn't 00:28:52.549 --> 00:28:54.069 a time where I was like, yeah, I'm going to go, 00:28:54.109 --> 00:28:56.130 you know. I'm going to go ring that bell for 00:28:56.130 --> 00:28:57.990 that cup of coffee or that hot cocoa or to be 00:28:57.990 --> 00:29:00.569 put that jacket on. It was just never an option 00:29:00.569 --> 00:29:02.910 for us. So I'm curious what some of the other 00:29:02.910 --> 00:29:05.490 folks might have shared with you if you recall 00:29:05.490 --> 00:29:08.190 what they shared with you around this question. 00:29:09.289 --> 00:29:12.789 Definitely what you just said is a big part of 00:29:12.789 --> 00:29:14.630 it. The other one, which I think the Navy does 00:29:14.630 --> 00:29:17.529 well, I'm not obviously well -versed in American 00:29:17.529 --> 00:29:20.430 military, but one thing I know now is that in 00:29:20.430 --> 00:29:23.150 the Navy, certainly at that time, if you didn't... 00:29:23.420 --> 00:29:26.900 succeed in buds then you were you know free game 00:29:26.900 --> 00:29:29.700 fair game to go anywhere in the navy so i know 00:29:29.700 --> 00:29:32.759 the the fear of turning wrenches on a submarine 00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:35.039 somewhere if you if you rang the bell seems to 00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:38.119 be a big motivator as well but i mean i see the 00:29:38.119 --> 00:29:40.720 same even in in the fire service when i went 00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:43.180 to fire academy which is not at the same level 00:29:43.180 --> 00:29:47.799 of of weeding out the the buds is but it when 00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:49.980 when it's your singular focus and you know that 00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:53.130 you're supposed to do it then It's not, oh, I'm 00:29:53.130 --> 00:29:54.750 going to quit. I'm going to ring the bell. It's 00:29:54.750 --> 00:29:56.970 like if you have a day where you didn't perform 00:29:56.970 --> 00:29:59.029 well, you go back to the table and you go, what 00:29:59.029 --> 00:30:01.369 did I do wrong? How can I fix this? And I think 00:30:01.369 --> 00:30:04.630 that's it, that the humility to have the constant 00:30:04.630 --> 00:30:08.470 self -assessment and growth versus, you know, 00:30:08.470 --> 00:30:11.009 this is where my ceiling is. I think that that 00:30:11.009 --> 00:30:13.829 is what I see in a lot of the uniform professions 00:30:13.829 --> 00:30:18.230 in general. Yeah, no, that's super fair. I think. 00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:21.000 I do remember sitting on the beach a few times 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:25.619 and seeing that massive Navy ship. And James, 00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:29.980 I get motion sickness. I get seasick. So I'm 00:30:29.980 --> 00:30:32.140 just like envisioning as I thought about like, 00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:35.119 well, maybe I just do go hop on a boat, right? 00:30:35.220 --> 00:30:36.940 Like, no, that would have been the most miserable 00:30:36.940 --> 00:30:39.759 thing ever. I don't know if you've ever had seasick, 00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:42.440 gotten seasick, but it is. It is one of the most 00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:45.900 horrendous feelings that you can have. It's just 00:30:45.900 --> 00:30:47.480 like you can't control it. You're on a boat. 00:30:47.559 --> 00:30:49.160 You're in the middle of nowhere. You're throwing 00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:51.059 up. You're dizzy. It's like there's nothing you 00:30:51.059 --> 00:30:52.880 can do. There's absolutely nothing you can do. 00:30:52.980 --> 00:30:55.420 You just got to wait it out. So that right there 00:30:55.420 --> 00:30:57.680 is motivation enough and maybe the biggest motivator 00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:00.180 for me, seeing that big ship out on the horizon. 00:31:00.819 --> 00:31:03.839 No, thank you. Absolutely. I think the other 00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:07.579 thing, I got into it when I was 27, I think. 00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:10.619 26, 27, I was going through school. And so I'd 00:31:10.619 --> 00:31:15.480 done some interesting jobs. I'd been a stuntman 00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:17.619 and some other things. But before that, I was 00:31:17.619 --> 00:31:19.859 doing all the shit jobs. I'd worked in a pizza 00:31:19.859 --> 00:31:25.920 factory. I'd worked on the Zodiacs, tying the 00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:29.920 valve to the valve stem. like hours on end. So 00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:32.900 when you've done a lot of shit jobs and you're 00:31:32.900 --> 00:31:35.359 in this, this, you know, grooming process to 00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:37.420 do something really exciting and meaningful, 00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:40.059 that's another motivator too. If you're straight 00:31:40.059 --> 00:31:41.960 out of school, maybe you don't have that barometer, 00:31:41.980 --> 00:31:44.420 but if you're slightly older and you've done 00:31:44.420 --> 00:31:46.859 some things that you absolutely hated, then I 00:31:46.859 --> 00:31:48.920 think that adds to the motivation too. Yeah, 00:31:48.940 --> 00:31:53.920 I agree with that for sure. Yep. So you graduate. 00:31:54.039 --> 00:31:55.859 Where did you find you? Actually, firstly, what 00:31:55.859 --> 00:31:57.880 year did you graduate? So we can kind of get 00:31:57.880 --> 00:32:00.720 an idea of the timeline. Yeah. So let's see. 00:32:00.779 --> 00:32:05.700 That was 2000. Showed up 2003. So that was probably 00:32:05.700 --> 00:32:10.900 2004 to maybe early 2005 is when we graduated 00:32:10.900 --> 00:32:17.539 Buds and SQT. And then we immediately showed 00:32:17.539 --> 00:32:20.799 up to Team 4. Team four, historically, the SEAL 00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:23.079 teams were broken up into, this is pre -war, 00:32:23.180 --> 00:32:26.259 obviously, pre what was taking place in the Middle 00:32:26.259 --> 00:32:28.740 East. Every team had a specialty. So team four 00:32:28.740 --> 00:32:31.819 was like South America, Spanish speakers. And 00:32:31.819 --> 00:32:33.480 there's still like kind of that culture there 00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:36.240 because we had just started the war overseas 00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:40.609 and abroad. But then that quickly shifted. All 00:32:40.609 --> 00:32:43.390 the teams were getting deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. 00:32:43.529 --> 00:32:46.250 And within nine months of showing up to SEAL 00:32:46.250 --> 00:32:48.789 Team 4, I was on my first deployment to Baghdad. 00:32:50.329 --> 00:32:53.569 So I always ask people a kind of two -sided question 00:32:53.569 --> 00:32:56.849 on deployments for two reasons. Firstly, you 00:32:56.849 --> 00:32:59.450 know, it's the classified element. And secondly, 00:32:59.549 --> 00:33:02.089 not wanting people to revisit horror after horror 00:33:02.089 --> 00:33:06.420 either. The kind of whole point of this story 00:33:06.420 --> 00:33:10.180 is just when you look at our media here, the 00:33:10.180 --> 00:33:12.519 kind of story that we get, it's either when it 00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:14.640 comes to war, kill them all, let God sort them 00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:17.319 out, stack bodies, or they're all baby killers. 00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:19.799 And then in between, obviously, the men and women 00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:22.339 that we send overseas wearing our flag on their 00:33:22.339 --> 00:33:25.559 shoulder to protect people miles and miles and 00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:28.799 miles away. When you first, and this can apply 00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:31.539 to Afghanistan, Iraq, whatever you want. Was 00:33:31.539 --> 00:33:33.720 there a moment when you deployed, regardless 00:33:33.720 --> 00:33:36.460 of the politics that sent you there, where you 00:33:36.460 --> 00:33:38.519 realized there were some horrific people that 00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:42.799 needed to be taken care of? Oh, yeah. There was, 00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:46.920 I mean, we were, our team was part of a task 00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:50.619 force that was targeting a specific element. 00:33:50.700 --> 00:33:52.720 And I'll leave like kind of the details out of 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:58.180 that element. But I mean, horrendous, evil people 00:33:58.180 --> 00:34:02.799 that Again, to your point, regardless of any 00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:05.960 of the politics that were taking place then or 00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:09.219 later in my career, it didn't matter because 00:34:09.219 --> 00:34:11.900 these people wanted nothing more than to cause 00:34:11.900 --> 00:34:14.139 just some of the most horrendous acts of horror 00:34:14.139 --> 00:34:18.199 to anybody outside of kind of their sect, if 00:34:18.199 --> 00:34:21.380 you will. And we saw it firsthand. I mean there 00:34:21.380 --> 00:34:24.119 was people that had killed dozens if not hundreds 00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:29.849 of our peers that were out there. And taking 00:34:29.849 --> 00:34:33.929 even a step further and had mutilated and done 00:34:33.929 --> 00:34:35.769 some really horrific things to their bodies. 00:34:35.909 --> 00:34:40.010 And it's just, I mean, I think back to that time 00:34:40.010 --> 00:34:42.269 and it was absolutely that those people needed 00:34:42.269 --> 00:34:48.250 to go meet our maker and let him sort it out. 00:34:48.309 --> 00:34:52.670 And that's exactly what happened. With all these 00:34:52.670 --> 00:34:56.429 different... horrendous humans that you've had 00:34:56.429 --> 00:34:58.130 to encounter that you've obviously had to learn 00:34:58.130 --> 00:35:00.369 the background on and you know the the stories 00:35:00.369 --> 00:35:04.929 on are there any common denominators on how arguably 00:35:04.929 --> 00:35:08.170 what was a once you know a a giggling toddler 00:35:08.170 --> 00:35:10.510 who was probably more concerned about chasing 00:35:10.510 --> 00:35:13.710 butterflies than anything else becomes not only 00:35:13.710 --> 00:35:19.449 an extremist but such a violent extremist i think 00:35:19.449 --> 00:35:23.329 humans are I'll just maybe segue and maybe this 00:35:23.329 --> 00:35:26.329 makes sense. We're easily influenced, right? 00:35:26.409 --> 00:35:29.050 Like media has torn this country, the United 00:35:29.050 --> 00:35:31.650 States apart and maybe has in other countries 00:35:31.650 --> 00:35:35.090 as well. I think we're so easily influenced and 00:35:35.090 --> 00:35:38.409 we get so visceral around what we're being fed 00:35:38.409 --> 00:35:41.150 that now it's so hard to come to the table and 00:35:41.150 --> 00:35:44.969 have a disagreement without insults and worse. 00:35:45.230 --> 00:35:48.059 I mean we just saw it with – not too long ago 00:35:48.059 --> 00:35:51.139 with the assassination of Charlie Kirk, right? 00:35:51.699 --> 00:35:55.119 And there's others too. I think that's what it 00:35:55.119 --> 00:35:58.300 was. I think there is people that are evil in 00:35:58.300 --> 00:36:01.400 this world that have the ability to kind of use 00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:05.880 their silver tongue, the snake tongue, if you 00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:09.619 will, and just it becomes almost poetic to others 00:36:09.619 --> 00:36:13.750 and they start falling victim to this. This idea, 00:36:14.170 --> 00:36:17.429 this rhetoric, and it grows from there. And we've 00:36:17.429 --> 00:36:19.489 seen that. There's just been some of these leaders 00:36:19.489 --> 00:36:23.050 in Al -Qaeda and ISIS that they were really good 00:36:23.050 --> 00:36:27.389 at not only just bringing the initial group of 00:36:27.389 --> 00:36:29.889 individuals into their sects, into their organizations, 00:36:30.130 --> 00:36:34.070 but then just training the other generation behind 00:36:34.070 --> 00:36:36.170 them to do the same. And the next thing you know, 00:36:36.190 --> 00:36:39.730 we... We're fighting these folks that just absolutely 00:36:39.730 --> 00:36:42.590 believe what they were fed from, in my opinion, 00:36:42.590 --> 00:36:45.610 from a few individuals. They created a movement 00:36:45.610 --> 00:36:47.670 out of it. And it's happening everywhere. It's 00:36:47.670 --> 00:36:52.710 not just there. I think that was an extremist 00:36:52.710 --> 00:36:56.929 view, obviously. But we see it in flavors. you 00:36:56.929 --> 00:36:59.289 know, here in the United States. We see it within 00:36:59.289 --> 00:37:01.289 our politics. We see it within our local school 00:37:01.289 --> 00:37:03.210 systems. We see it, I mean, the list goes on 00:37:03.210 --> 00:37:05.250 and on. It happens not to that level, obviously. 00:37:05.349 --> 00:37:07.389 So I'm not trying to compare the two. I'm just 00:37:07.389 --> 00:37:09.590 trying to highlight how easy it is for us to 00:37:09.590 --> 00:37:15.110 get behind a rhetoric and then be taught to not 00:37:15.110 --> 00:37:17.369 be able to communicate with somebody on the other 00:37:17.369 --> 00:37:22.650 side of that fence, if you will. I think these 00:37:22.650 --> 00:37:25.250 are really important conversations because I 00:37:25.250 --> 00:37:27.250 was having a chat with someone the other day, 00:37:27.269 --> 00:37:29.750 and you hear a lot of people postulate saying, 00:37:29.889 --> 00:37:32.030 oh, if I could go back in time, I'd kill Hitler. 00:37:32.869 --> 00:37:36.309 And the thing is, in 2025, you have that opportunity 00:37:36.309 --> 00:37:40.949 now not to kill someone, but to be ahead of yet 00:37:40.949 --> 00:37:43.469 another duping that's going to lead people towards 00:37:43.469 --> 00:37:45.909 another divisive crisis, whatever that looks 00:37:45.909 --> 00:37:49.429 like. And what kills me is that history is absolutely 00:37:49.429 --> 00:37:54.070 rich in life lessons. And yet. I don't understand 00:37:54.070 --> 00:37:57.190 why we don't reflect back even as close as 80 00:37:57.190 --> 00:38:00.349 years ago when the entire planet was at war and 00:38:00.349 --> 00:38:03.809 see what led up to that. In this case, obviously, 00:38:03.849 --> 00:38:06.869 it was Nazi Germany to the point where people, 00:38:07.050 --> 00:38:09.449 because I'm sure most Germans weren't thinking 00:38:09.449 --> 00:38:11.349 about the atrocities that happened. They were 00:38:11.349 --> 00:38:13.170 just thinking about feeding their kids and making 00:38:13.170 --> 00:38:15.949 sure they got to school and having a beer with 00:38:15.949 --> 00:38:17.949 their friends on the weekend. And it turned into 00:38:17.949 --> 00:38:22.599 what we saw. do we need to do differently to 00:38:22.599 --> 00:38:26.099 get people to actually lean into history and 00:38:26.099 --> 00:38:28.800 actually come together every time we see one 00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:31.500 of these tyrants trying to divide the nation 00:38:31.500 --> 00:38:33.880 that we see so often from both sides at the moment? 00:38:34.900 --> 00:38:40.360 Yeah, that's a really great question. You know, 00:38:40.380 --> 00:38:45.480 I ponder this quite a bit because I really enjoyed 00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:50.139 my time at uni. And man, did we have different 00:38:50.139 --> 00:38:53.320 views, right? Like everybody comes from different 00:38:53.320 --> 00:38:57.079 parts of the world and they have a different 00:38:57.079 --> 00:38:59.219 view from their experiences and what they were 00:38:59.219 --> 00:39:02.360 taught. But we can come together over a pint 00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:06.619 and have a great debate and walk away arm in 00:39:06.619 --> 00:39:10.300 arm singing songs back to the dorm. I don't know 00:39:10.300 --> 00:39:14.690 how we do that. I really don't. It has gotten 00:39:14.690 --> 00:39:17.349 so divisive that families don't even talk anymore, 00:39:17.489 --> 00:39:20.449 right? Like their politics are so – and when 00:39:20.449 --> 00:39:22.769 you approach the conversation, it's just like, 00:39:22.829 --> 00:39:25.269 hey, you lead with love and maybe I would have 00:39:25.269 --> 00:39:27.150 never done that five years ago prior to plant 00:39:27.150 --> 00:39:30.389 medicine. But I do now. I lead with love and 00:39:30.389 --> 00:39:32.269 I say, hey, it's OK to have different opinions. 00:39:32.309 --> 00:39:34.710 Like let's just remember what's most important 00:39:34.710 --> 00:39:38.789 and we're family, et cetera. It almost exasperates 00:39:38.789 --> 00:39:41.489 the situation. Like you're being condescending. 00:39:41.570 --> 00:39:45.130 You're talking – it's – It's bizarre to see how 00:39:45.130 --> 00:39:47.949 difficult it has to have a simple conversation 00:39:47.949 --> 00:39:50.969 about something that is, in the grand scheme 00:39:50.969 --> 00:39:53.630 of things, could be perceived as being like really 00:39:53.630 --> 00:39:55.889 a mute point, meaningless or not important to 00:39:55.889 --> 00:39:58.949 our particular little, you know, community, if 00:39:58.949 --> 00:40:04.070 you will. So it's a really, I don't know, I think 00:40:04.070 --> 00:40:05.929 about this a lot. I think about our country quite 00:40:05.929 --> 00:40:08.170 a bit and like the sacrifices my friends made, 00:40:08.230 --> 00:40:11.699 the friends that are no longer here. And happy 00:40:11.699 --> 00:40:13.780 to have done what we did. And I know they would 00:40:13.780 --> 00:40:17.420 give their life again for the greater good. But 00:40:17.420 --> 00:40:21.360 it almost feels like we've crossed this – maybe 00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:23.460 I'll use the analogy of the peak. We're on the 00:40:23.460 --> 00:40:25.460 back end of this mountain now it feels like as 00:40:25.460 --> 00:40:29.239 a country. And it's hard to wrap my head around 00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:31.780 that. But this empire, if we could even call 00:40:31.780 --> 00:40:36.840 it that, it's not what it was. And to your point, 00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:41.510 if you compare it to other – great empires. I 00:40:41.510 --> 00:40:45.530 mean, you can kind of just map it out the trajectory 00:40:45.530 --> 00:40:47.809 and you're going to land where you landed. It's 00:40:47.809 --> 00:40:49.550 not at the peak. It's not even going up anymore. 00:40:49.730 --> 00:40:53.889 It really feels like it's coming down. When I 00:40:53.889 --> 00:40:56.150 kind of take a step back and this is what I talk 00:40:56.150 --> 00:40:58.110 about a lot. It's funny. My Instagram just got 00:40:58.110 --> 00:41:00.409 shut down for the second time in a year. And 00:41:00.409 --> 00:41:02.530 all I talk about is community and kindness and 00:41:02.530 --> 00:41:05.969 compassion and empathy. So let that be a glaring 00:41:05.969 --> 00:41:11.159 Orwellian sign in itself. Um, is if you take 00:41:11.159 --> 00:41:13.360 a step back and James, you went, you went mute 00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:15.639 for a second. Can, I don't know what happened, 00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:18.860 but that's, that's so timely that you're talking 00:41:18.860 --> 00:41:21.219 about your Instagram. I can't hear you right 00:41:21.219 --> 00:41:23.579 now. I'm going to leave it right there. Can you 00:41:23.579 --> 00:41:27.320 hear me now? Okay. I can hear you now. Okay, 00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:29.280 go ahead. So I'm going to, I'm going to leave 00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:33.519 this in. Cause maybe that was big brother, the 00:41:33.519 --> 00:41:37.250 thought police, whoever they call them. Um, So, 00:41:37.250 --> 00:41:39.929 yes. But when you take a step back and you remove 00:41:39.929 --> 00:41:43.949 politics from it and you say, OK, how is the 00:41:43.949 --> 00:41:46.989 health of the nation? And we have 70 percent 00:41:46.989 --> 00:41:50.730 of Americans overweight, over 40 percent are 00:41:50.730 --> 00:41:53.949 obese. We have murders in our schools. We have 00:41:53.949 --> 00:41:57.630 a crippling opioid epidemic, a suicide crisis. 00:41:58.289 --> 00:42:00.989 It's not doom and gloom, but these straddle both 00:42:00.989 --> 00:42:04.880 sides of the aisle for decades. So it shows that 00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:07.179 there's one common denominator, that there are, 00:42:07.260 --> 00:42:10.260 you know, it's not a conspiracy theory. There 00:42:10.260 --> 00:42:12.559 are people pulling puppet strings of people that 00:42:12.559 --> 00:42:14.840 are paid to go and become a president because 00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:16.539 it's the only way you can get in. You've got 00:42:16.539 --> 00:42:18.139 to be a millionaire and you've got to take money 00:42:18.139 --> 00:42:22.460 from lobbyists. And we have got fatter and sicker 00:42:22.460 --> 00:42:25.179 and our schools more dangerous, you know, our 00:42:25.179 --> 00:42:29.199 environment more polluted and destroyed. And 00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:33.019 so. For me, it's just a case of until we realize 00:42:33.019 --> 00:42:36.460 that at the ground level, the 340 plus people 00:42:36.460 --> 00:42:41.519 in this country, 340 million, and we come together, 00:42:41.659 --> 00:42:44.559 it's just going to keep, as you said, going down, 00:42:44.599 --> 00:42:46.800 but it doesn't have to. And we don't need to 00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:48.739 be, it's not a competition, the greatest country 00:42:48.739 --> 00:42:51.639 in the world, but we need to take the reins back 00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:54.880 at least so that we can create a happy, healthy 00:42:54.880 --> 00:42:59.570 nation like we had. pay our true respects to 00:42:59.570 --> 00:43:02.110 the men and women that died in world war ii truly 00:43:02.110 --> 00:43:05.030 fighting for our freedom because right now what 00:43:05.030 --> 00:43:07.230 are they thinking what were the world war ii 00:43:07.230 --> 00:43:09.309 veterans thinking right now it's such a disgrace 00:43:09.309 --> 00:43:13.710 yeah i agree with that you know the thing is 00:43:13.710 --> 00:43:18.409 is we're fighting we're fighting machines like 00:43:18.409 --> 00:43:21.329 that are just backed by just endless amount of 00:43:21.329 --> 00:43:23.409 resources when it comes to any of the things 00:43:23.409 --> 00:43:25.820 that you talked about There are people and organizations 00:43:25.820 --> 00:43:28.099 that need us to be fat because that's how they 00:43:28.099 --> 00:43:30.179 get paid. There are people and organizations 00:43:30.179 --> 00:43:32.360 that need us to hate each other because that's 00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:34.539 how they create the rift and they maintain their 00:43:34.539 --> 00:43:39.639 roles and their jobs. Lobbyists out there, there's 00:43:39.639 --> 00:43:43.940 so many people that want people to be down and 00:43:43.940 --> 00:43:47.980 hurt and obese and confused and have mental illness 00:43:47.980 --> 00:43:52.059 because that's their business. I think about 00:43:52.059 --> 00:43:54.860 psychedelics, right? And the first time that 00:43:54.860 --> 00:43:57.039 was introduced to me by a peer of mine, I thought 00:43:57.039 --> 00:43:59.239 he had lost his freaking mind when he told me. 00:43:59.780 --> 00:44:02.579 But he planted a seed in it and I did some research 00:44:02.579 --> 00:44:06.239 and met a gentleman, Dr. Robin Carhart -Harris, 00:44:06.280 --> 00:44:09.440 who was initially overseas and now he's at UCSF. 00:44:09.460 --> 00:44:11.900 But the research doesn't lie. You start looking 00:44:11.900 --> 00:44:15.139 at this as like, how is this not – how do we 00:44:15.139 --> 00:44:17.039 not have access to this, right? And now we're 00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:20.440 getting a swell of momentum and movement. around 00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:22.820 this topic but it just makes me sick to my stomach 00:44:22.820 --> 00:44:27.300 that big pharma you know has really slowed the 00:44:27.300 --> 00:44:29.239 progress down in my opinion so that they can 00:44:29.239 --> 00:44:32.139 understand like how do we create money off of 00:44:32.139 --> 00:44:34.460 this and like the prime example is ketamine right 00:44:34.460 --> 00:44:37.780 ketamine is uh uh you know a drug that that can 00:44:37.780 --> 00:44:40.019 be used for folks with anxiety depression and 00:44:40.019 --> 00:44:45.039 um johnson and johnson has s ketamine Because 00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:47.659 they had to understand like how do we create 00:44:47.659 --> 00:44:50.019 a product that we can – with the resources that 00:44:50.019 --> 00:44:51.699 we have that can go to market, go through FDA 00:44:51.699 --> 00:44:54.639 approval process and then be the number one ketamine 00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:56.079 distributor out there. They're going to do the 00:44:56.079 --> 00:44:58.059 same thing with Ibogaine. They're going to do 00:44:58.059 --> 00:45:00.500 the same thing with psilocybin. It's just like 00:45:00.500 --> 00:45:06.119 – I don't know. I think a bit of a tangent there 00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:08.980 but come back to your point. I think – I don't 00:45:08.980 --> 00:45:10.900 know how to do it, James. I don't know how to 00:45:10.900 --> 00:45:16.059 – I look at what Charlie Kirk was trying to do 00:45:16.059 --> 00:45:18.059 and trying to create a platform and maybe that 00:45:18.059 --> 00:45:20.340 wasn't the exact right way to do it but create 00:45:20.340 --> 00:45:22.960 a conversation with the youth, right? Educate 00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:25.719 the youth. Have an open debate with the youth. 00:45:27.659 --> 00:45:29.559 Maybe there's something along those lines. But 00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:32.500 he was obviously murdered by potentially – who 00:45:32.500 --> 00:45:34.920 knows? You can go down any conspiracy theory 00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:39.739 you want. Yeah, I don't know. And it hurts because 00:45:39.739 --> 00:45:42.530 I have five kids, right? grandkids to come and 00:45:42.530 --> 00:45:45.090 it doesn't mean i i'm not going to do anything 00:45:45.090 --> 00:45:46.829 about it because it's the nature of the type 00:45:46.829 --> 00:45:49.170 of people we are we will keep trying to figure 00:45:49.170 --> 00:45:52.610 out how we can have friendly debates how we can 00:45:52.610 --> 00:45:54.809 make a better place for our children and their 00:45:54.809 --> 00:45:57.429 children but right now at this moment i have 00:45:57.429 --> 00:46:00.989 no idea i think well these conversations help 00:46:00.989 --> 00:46:02.690 i think because the more people here it's the 00:46:02.690 --> 00:46:05.630 same with with drug prohibition i i and a lot 00:46:05.630 --> 00:46:07.289 of people listening the first responder professions 00:46:07.289 --> 00:46:10.019 have seen the failure of that up close and personal, 00:46:10.139 --> 00:46:11.599 you know, whether we're talking the gangs, the 00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:13.739 homelessness, the prostitution, you know, the 00:46:13.739 --> 00:46:17.039 overdoses. I mean, this is a side effect of drug 00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:19.340 prohibition, which started on job justification 00:46:19.340 --> 00:46:22.619 and racism in the 30s with Harry Anslinger. So 00:46:22.619 --> 00:46:25.579 again, an 80 -year plus, you know, longitudinal 00:46:25.579 --> 00:46:27.820 study of failure, and yet still we keep doing 00:46:27.820 --> 00:46:30.099 it. And yet MDMA tries to get approval with the 00:46:30.099 --> 00:46:34.320 FDA and gets turned down for MDMA -assisted psychotherapy. 00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:38.539 But the FDA approved OxyContin. So, I mean, I 00:46:38.539 --> 00:46:41.380 don't know how much more evidence we need, but 00:46:41.380 --> 00:46:43.940 I think it is the conversations. And I'm turning 00:46:43.940 --> 00:46:47.920 my latest book into a TV show. And my goal is 00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:49.500 to have this show and there's going to be another 00:46:49.500 --> 00:46:52.920 side element to it, which is going to put information 00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:56.260 in people's hands and start these conversations. 00:46:56.460 --> 00:46:59.159 And I hope it's really successful because that's 00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:02.139 what we need. We need to get to the masses and 00:47:02.139 --> 00:47:05.789 bypass these kind of hot button clickbait. you 00:47:05.789 --> 00:47:08.070 know hurdles have been put in front in front 00:47:08.070 --> 00:47:10.130 of us like oh no you're a blue or you're a red 00:47:10.130 --> 00:47:11.889 so you can't talk about this and you can't talk 00:47:11.889 --> 00:47:14.250 about that yeah and we're human first and that's 00:47:14.250 --> 00:47:17.730 what we got to remember yeah be careful when 00:47:17.730 --> 00:47:19.150 you say you're human first because you might 00:47:19.150 --> 00:47:20.909 get shut down for saying something like that 00:47:20.909 --> 00:47:24.869 yeah exactly but it's um i'll share a quick story 00:47:24.869 --> 00:47:27.309 and i know we'll probably get to it here uh but 00:47:27.309 --> 00:47:30.010 we started envy mind health and we use wearables 00:47:30.010 --> 00:47:33.230 as you're well aware to help people understand 00:47:33.230 --> 00:47:35.510 the biometrics from those wearables, to help 00:47:35.510 --> 00:47:37.230 people understand their mental well -being score. 00:47:37.530 --> 00:47:40.170 Well, we also have a dashboard for providers. 00:47:40.309 --> 00:47:42.489 So now a doctor can see all of their patients 00:47:42.489 --> 00:47:45.130 in one spot and understand their biometric data. 00:47:45.309 --> 00:47:47.489 And then we help them understand where they're 00:47:47.489 --> 00:47:50.070 at from a depression level, anxiety level, et 00:47:50.070 --> 00:47:53.030 cetera. We had a conversation with an addiction 00:47:53.030 --> 00:47:54.969 center, because if you think about this, like, 00:47:55.030 --> 00:47:58.800 why not? Somebody does inpatient. You have a 00:47:58.800 --> 00:48:01.320 doctor that prescribes medicine or different 00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:04.079 modalities. You can see the impact from a biometric 00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:06.179 standpoint or physiological standpoint on the 00:48:06.179 --> 00:48:08.659 individual. And then you can kind of, you know, 00:48:08.679 --> 00:48:10.300 we have an algorithm, but then the doctor can 00:48:10.300 --> 00:48:12.599 make decisions if, you know, if the medicine's 00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:14.519 helping them or if they need to maybe try a different 00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:18.559 approach here. So inpatient makes sense. Outpatient, 00:48:18.579 --> 00:48:21.599 though, in my opinion, is where we really add 00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:23.699 value because now we can see when people are 00:48:23.699 --> 00:48:28.309 starting to trend towards a down area. maybe 00:48:28.309 --> 00:48:32.570 intervene before there's a relapse. So, you know, 00:48:32.570 --> 00:48:34.210 an addiction center can kind of see their patients. 00:48:34.570 --> 00:48:37.369 Once we shared that, and I was so excited, James, 00:48:37.469 --> 00:48:39.210 to share that with the addiction centers, like, 00:48:39.250 --> 00:48:41.409 oh my gosh, like we'll prevent, you know, potentially 00:48:41.409 --> 00:48:45.110 we could prevent relapses. I mean, I wish you 00:48:45.110 --> 00:48:46.849 could have seen the faces of everybody in there 00:48:46.849 --> 00:48:49.409 from the CEO to the lead doctor to everybody 00:48:49.409 --> 00:48:52.769 in there, mostly on the business side. But they 00:48:52.769 --> 00:48:55.150 just went white and the conversation stalled 00:48:55.150 --> 00:48:57.010 immediately at that point. And I couldn't figure 00:48:57.010 --> 00:48:58.369 out what the hell I did wrong. It's like, did 00:48:58.369 --> 00:49:02.150 I say something? And then it dawned on me. They 00:49:02.150 --> 00:49:05.769 don't want these people to get better. They need 00:49:05.769 --> 00:49:08.949 their business model is for that person to relapse 00:49:08.949 --> 00:49:11.369 and come back to their addiction center or another 00:49:11.369 --> 00:49:15.500 addiction center. I was just. I was just so defeated 00:49:15.500 --> 00:49:17.619 in that very moment. Like I talked to my team 00:49:17.619 --> 00:49:19.639 afterwards and we know now, like we've done the 00:49:19.639 --> 00:49:21.699 research, we've analyzed it. We know the model, 00:49:21.800 --> 00:49:25.300 like they need people to relapse. So we're providing 00:49:25.300 --> 00:49:27.920 potentially something that could help that individual 00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:30.380 before they get to that spot of relapsing in 00:49:30.380 --> 00:49:33.300 the world, or at least the current business model 00:49:33.300 --> 00:49:35.679 is terrified of it. They don't want anything 00:49:35.679 --> 00:49:38.659 to do with it. Well, I think this is what's important 00:49:38.659 --> 00:49:40.820 to understand as well. Like one of the big missions 00:49:40.820 --> 00:49:44.219 I've got is in the fire service, they work 56 00:49:44.219 --> 00:49:46.019 hours a week. Most people don't realize that. 00:49:46.099 --> 00:49:49.039 And then they're spiraling downwards, kind of 00:49:49.039 --> 00:49:50.539 like you were saying with the empire, because 00:49:50.539 --> 00:49:53.480 we haven't fixed anything. So now there's a recruitment 00:49:53.480 --> 00:49:55.659 crisis and young people aren't choosing to become 00:49:55.659 --> 00:49:58.199 firefighters anymore. And so now we've got these 00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:00.400 same people that are working being forced to 00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:02.460 do extra shifts. So now you're talking, you know, 00:50:02.519 --> 00:50:07.340 80 plus hours a week. And, you know, that is 00:50:07.340 --> 00:50:10.659 at the detriment only of the men and women that 00:50:10.659 --> 00:50:12.659 are actually working, not the people making decisions, 00:50:12.840 --> 00:50:15.159 not the chiefs, if it's big enough, not the union 00:50:15.159 --> 00:50:19.320 presidents, city, county, et cetera. And so until 00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:21.460 we understand the environment is working against 00:50:21.460 --> 00:50:24.539 us, and so you look at mental health and physical 00:50:24.539 --> 00:50:26.820 health and you tie that in with sleep deprivation, 00:50:27.019 --> 00:50:30.239 it is behind everything that we suffer from, 00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:32.739 everything that kills us. It's an amplifier of 00:50:32.739 --> 00:50:35.250 whatever is going on. So once you understand 00:50:35.250 --> 00:50:37.889 that, then you can become a real advocate for 00:50:37.889 --> 00:50:40.130 changing the work week, which I think we should 00:50:40.130 --> 00:50:43.949 be working a 42 hour work week, 24, 72. Now you're 00:50:43.949 --> 00:50:45.789 going to be a force multiplier and all things 00:50:45.789 --> 00:50:48.269 health. And then you can start chipping away. 00:50:48.369 --> 00:50:51.010 Same with obesity. Once we realize that, you 00:50:51.010 --> 00:50:52.710 know, fast food and I mean, look what happened 00:50:52.710 --> 00:50:55.449 during COVID. The advice that was given could 00:50:55.449 --> 00:50:58.809 not be more wrong. Stay at home. Don't move. 00:50:58.949 --> 00:51:01.530 Don't see your family and friends. Get fast food 00:51:01.530 --> 00:51:03.429 and beer delivered to your home while you binge 00:51:03.429 --> 00:51:06.389 watch Tiger King. We made fatter, sicker people, 00:51:06.550 --> 00:51:09.769 more of whom that died. So I think when you understand 00:51:09.769 --> 00:51:13.329 what's working against you, then I think en masse, 00:51:13.570 --> 00:51:16.349 we can really start deconstructing that. But 00:51:16.349 --> 00:51:18.269 if we blindly think that some of these organizations 00:51:18.269 --> 00:51:21.829 have our best interests at hand, therein lies 00:51:21.829 --> 00:51:26.110 the problem. Yeah. And is it fair to say that 00:51:26.489 --> 00:51:30.610 The majority of people do put their faith in 00:51:30.610 --> 00:51:34.050 other entities, those third parties are, you 00:51:34.050 --> 00:51:37.329 know, our leadership organizations. I mean, that's 00:51:37.329 --> 00:51:38.969 my belief. I'm curious if you would agree with 00:51:38.969 --> 00:51:41.969 that. Yeah, I do. I mean, even from the health 00:51:41.969 --> 00:51:45.280 point of view, I just had. Josh Clemente on, 00:51:45.380 --> 00:51:48.360 he's got levels. So one of those kind of AI medical 00:51:48.360 --> 00:51:51.800 programs where you can do continuous blood glucose 00:51:51.800 --> 00:51:54.500 monitoring and you get blood work done and the 00:51:54.500 --> 00:51:56.539 whole philosophy, and it's kind of lined up with 00:51:56.539 --> 00:51:59.280 envy as well, is that you become your own advocate 00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:01.780 again, rather than you go see someone with a 00:52:01.780 --> 00:52:03.659 white coat and a stethoscope once a year and 00:52:03.659 --> 00:52:06.159 they say, yeah, you're fatter and you're sicker 00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:08.099 now. Well, what are we going to do the other 00:52:08.099 --> 00:52:12.320 364 days that we can stop that happening? I think 00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:14.119 that that is the case, but it's exciting what 00:52:14.119 --> 00:52:16.119 we're going to talk about and some of these other 00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:18.440 things that are out there to put the power of 00:52:18.440 --> 00:52:20.639 the individual back in their own hands so they're 00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:23.519 not relying on other people. Yeah, exactly. That's 00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:26.360 exactly right. Yeah, I've heard of levels and 00:52:26.360 --> 00:52:30.239 great things there. So I want to get to, obviously, 00:52:30.320 --> 00:52:33.460 the creation of Envy. The other side of that 00:52:33.460 --> 00:52:36.679 question I asked a while ago about the... horrible 00:52:36.679 --> 00:52:39.780 people, as it were. Another area that we don't 00:52:39.780 --> 00:52:42.039 hear in the media is the kindness and compassion 00:52:42.039 --> 00:52:44.679 from our men and women in uniform, whether it's 00:52:44.679 --> 00:52:46.860 our own, whether it's the indigenous people that 00:52:46.860 --> 00:52:49.860 we're working for or alongside. When you reflect 00:52:49.860 --> 00:52:52.019 back now on your career, what are some of the 00:52:52.019 --> 00:52:54.079 moments that really pop to mind, pop out of your 00:52:54.079 --> 00:52:57.940 mind? Yeah, it's along those lines. It's, you 00:52:57.940 --> 00:53:00.079 know, when we weren't working, going out in the 00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:02.920 community. So I'll use Africa as an example. 00:53:04.570 --> 00:53:07.769 We worked in Uganda and the team would – they'd 00:53:07.769 --> 00:53:09.989 go out and we'd go to the orphanage and just 00:53:09.989 --> 00:53:14.130 like on our free time, like hang out with them, 00:53:14.349 --> 00:53:17.230 provide – give them gifts, give them hats, like 00:53:17.230 --> 00:53:21.329 spend time with these kids. And now I take us 00:53:21.329 --> 00:53:23.889 on a bit of a segue. Just a quick call out. Some 00:53:23.889 --> 00:53:26.469 of the happiest people that I've ever met in 00:53:26.469 --> 00:53:30.769 my life, right? Like they have nothing. Literally, 00:53:31.150 --> 00:53:33.750 we're in mud huts outside of our compound, like 00:53:33.750 --> 00:53:38.369 sewage flowing sometimes in the streets to the 00:53:38.369 --> 00:53:42.050 main street and then out to happiest people. 00:53:42.150 --> 00:53:45.170 They have nothing. And we have everything, it 00:53:45.170 --> 00:53:47.469 feels like, right? And yet we don't have enough. 00:53:48.050 --> 00:53:49.969 It was a really interesting observation that 00:53:49.969 --> 00:53:52.489 we all had. It's like, what are we doing wrong 00:53:52.489 --> 00:53:54.869 here? But those are some of the highlights. It's 00:53:54.869 --> 00:53:57.050 like taking time out of, you know, our deployments 00:53:57.050 --> 00:53:59.289 and when possible, not in Iraq and Afghanistan, 00:53:59.429 --> 00:54:02.150 actually in Iraq, like helping when we would 00:54:02.150 --> 00:54:04.329 come on target and just like trying to calm the 00:54:04.329 --> 00:54:06.710 family, the children, et cetera. It's like we 00:54:06.710 --> 00:54:09.250 weren't, we had a job to do. And if there was 00:54:09.250 --> 00:54:11.429 somebody that was bad, that person would be taken 00:54:11.429 --> 00:54:16.110 care of. We tried to really separate, you know, 00:54:16.110 --> 00:54:19.250 what we had to do in regards to somebody like 00:54:19.250 --> 00:54:21.730 that. And then the rest of the folks that we 00:54:21.730 --> 00:54:24.869 encountered on that mission was like, if you 00:54:24.869 --> 00:54:27.230 didn't do anything wrong, like we're humans, 00:54:27.309 --> 00:54:29.409 like you said, at the end of the day, and we're 00:54:29.409 --> 00:54:30.489 going to treat you like that. And we're going 00:54:30.489 --> 00:54:32.469 to lead with love and compassion until you show 00:54:32.469 --> 00:54:35.349 otherwise. Those are some of the best moments 00:54:35.349 --> 00:54:38.550 I had, memories that I had. It's just hanging 00:54:38.550 --> 00:54:40.429 out with some of the happiest people in this 00:54:40.429 --> 00:54:43.329 world that have nothing and our team just going 00:54:43.329 --> 00:54:45.949 out of their way to. to like spend time with 00:54:45.949 --> 00:54:48.530 them provide aid to them uh give them medical 00:54:48.530 --> 00:54:52.030 support when they needed and and uh just hang 00:54:52.030 --> 00:54:54.650 out with some really cool amazing children yeah 00:54:54.650 --> 00:54:56.969 i mean the number of stories i've heard now from 00:54:56.969 --> 00:54:59.389 you know exactly like you said to building schools 00:54:59.389 --> 00:55:02.829 to you know military veterinarians helping the 00:55:02.829 --> 00:55:05.469 local animals i mean we just don't hear that 00:55:05.469 --> 00:55:07.210 and i think this is the problem you get this 00:55:07.210 --> 00:55:09.730 very again polarizing view when it comes to this 00:55:10.599 --> 00:55:13.280 So talk to me about what made you want to transition 00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:17.039 the first time. And then let's discuss how that 00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:24.980 went for you. So, I mean, I loved what I did. 00:55:25.039 --> 00:55:29.960 I really did. But I had five kids and that started 00:55:29.960 --> 00:55:32.900 weighing on me, right? I was missing a lot. And 00:55:32.900 --> 00:55:35.940 I also wanted to be present for them. I wanted 00:55:35.940 --> 00:55:37.719 to be a father for them and not to say other 00:55:37.719 --> 00:55:40.579 teammates couldn't find the ability to balance 00:55:40.579 --> 00:55:43.639 that. But for me, we made the decision to get 00:55:43.639 --> 00:55:47.380 out. And I had just gotten back from Afghanistan 00:55:47.380 --> 00:55:51.139 and, you know, I had four months to get out of 00:55:51.139 --> 00:55:53.500 the military. So that's admin, medical discharge. 00:55:53.820 --> 00:55:57.579 Like I was deployed overseas. I didn't know what 00:55:57.579 --> 00:56:01.400 I wanted to do. I honestly didn't have any friends 00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:08.460 outside of my troop in my platoon. I really didn't. 00:56:08.460 --> 00:56:10.679 I didn't know the job opportunities out there. 00:56:10.719 --> 00:56:12.239 I didn't know how skills translated. I didn't 00:56:12.239 --> 00:56:15.340 know what I did and if there was an appetite 00:56:15.340 --> 00:56:19.179 for that in the real world, if you will, in corporate 00:56:19.179 --> 00:56:21.840 America. Nevertheless, we fumbled our way through 00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:24.179 it. I had a few friends that were on Wall Street. 00:56:24.199 --> 00:56:26.380 In my head, I made a correlation between like, 00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:28.639 OK, high risk of being a SEAL and high risk of 00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:30.840 being a trader. That kind of makes sense to me. 00:56:31.599 --> 00:56:34.599 And again, you heard where I live, Texas, Tennessee, 00:56:35.099 --> 00:56:39.460 Maine. I've maybe visited New York City once. 00:56:39.460 --> 00:56:41.480 The next thing you know, I'm in that jungle. 00:56:41.579 --> 00:56:46.960 And it is, wow, it is chaotic. It is fast. Wall 00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:49.960 Street never sleeps is true. New York never sleeps, 00:56:49.980 --> 00:56:52.940 right? And you think about my job. My father 00:56:52.940 --> 00:56:54.739 -in -law lived in Princeton, New Jersey at the 00:56:54.739 --> 00:56:59.159 time. He was like, hey, you guys should live 00:56:59.159 --> 00:57:00.719 in Princeton because it's pretty close to the 00:57:00.719 --> 00:57:02.780 city. It's only like an hour and a half commute. 00:57:03.380 --> 00:57:07.239 It literally was a two -hour commute one way. 00:57:07.739 --> 00:57:10.420 So now just think about that. Two hours in the 00:57:10.420 --> 00:57:12.619 morning. So I have to get up at 3 .45 to catch 00:57:12.619 --> 00:57:15.139 the train on time to get to a World Trade Center 00:57:15.139 --> 00:57:16.659 and then walk across the street to be in the 00:57:16.659 --> 00:57:19.340 office at 6 because I'm the new guy. And you 00:57:19.340 --> 00:57:22.159 know how it goes. As the new guy, you're going 00:57:22.159 --> 00:57:23.559 to be the first one and the last one to leave. 00:57:24.340 --> 00:57:28.170 So 6 a .m., I'm there. And then on the back end, 00:57:28.309 --> 00:57:32.389 the markets closed and we got dinners. Like we're 00:57:32.389 --> 00:57:37.090 taking clients out. So now it's appetizers. It's 00:57:37.090 --> 00:57:39.050 a dinner. Maybe it's a second dinner and then 00:57:39.050 --> 00:57:41.650 maybe even a late night and like it just became 00:57:41.650 --> 00:57:48.050 this lifestyle that was – it just wasn't – of 00:57:48.050 --> 00:57:50.489 who I was and the values that I have, right? 00:57:50.889 --> 00:57:53.630 Nothing against Wall Street. For me, I got out 00:57:53.630 --> 00:57:55.829 to be with my family and I was gone more on Wall 00:57:55.829 --> 00:58:01.670 Street than I was in the teams. So there became 00:58:01.670 --> 00:58:04.030 a point when everybody was congratulating me. 00:58:04.090 --> 00:58:05.969 It's like, you did it. You were a SEAL. Now you're 00:58:05.969 --> 00:58:08.769 at Goldman Sachs and you're making money and 00:58:08.769 --> 00:58:13.369 you came from nothing. Congratulations. And inside, 00:58:13.690 --> 00:58:15.610 and this will make sense to you, I was dead. 00:58:17.539 --> 00:58:20.780 And it comes down to what you've already alluded 00:58:20.780 --> 00:58:24.039 to a few times is I have a North Star and I wasn't 00:58:24.039 --> 00:58:26.099 anywhere near that. Like I didn't know what it 00:58:26.099 --> 00:58:29.699 was at the time, but I had no purpose. Or the 00:58:29.699 --> 00:58:31.699 purpose maybe better said was making as much 00:58:31.699 --> 00:58:33.539 money as possible. And that's just not the type 00:58:33.539 --> 00:58:35.739 of people we are, right? Like that can't be our 00:58:35.739 --> 00:58:38.980 purpose. The money will come. Like your purpose 00:58:38.980 --> 00:58:42.380 has to be bigger, has to be aligned with you, 00:58:42.400 --> 00:58:45.920 has to be bigger than that. So I struggled. I 00:58:45.920 --> 00:58:48.699 struggled so much that when a friend, a peer 00:58:48.699 --> 00:58:51.420 of ours, got killed on a hostage rescue mission 00:58:51.420 --> 00:58:54.480 overseas, I think it was December 12th, if I 00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:58.119 recall correctly, I turned to my boss and I said, 00:58:58.159 --> 00:59:02.119 hey, I'm going back in. And then I left Wall 00:59:02.119 --> 00:59:04.019 Street and went back to the teams for four more 00:59:04.019 --> 00:59:08.760 years. When I hear the transition stories, I 00:59:08.760 --> 00:59:13.059 would say almost every single time when When 00:59:13.059 --> 00:59:15.539 there's a healthy transition, someone has found 00:59:15.539 --> 00:59:19.519 their way into another role where they felt like 00:59:19.519 --> 00:59:21.699 they really had purpose. Like in whatever that 00:59:21.699 --> 00:59:23.280 looked like, they were making the world a little 00:59:23.280 --> 00:59:25.280 bit better still. And I've said that even with 00:59:25.280 --> 00:59:27.940 what I do now. There's no, I tell people a lot, 00:59:27.980 --> 00:59:30.460 there's no podcast or calendar where we're shirtless, 00:59:30.460 --> 00:59:33.760 you know, like the fire service. There's no glamour 00:59:33.760 --> 00:59:35.659 to this role whatsoever. You might be onto something 00:59:35.659 --> 00:59:41.539 there, man. Behind the desk, a calendar. But 00:59:41.539 --> 00:59:44.840 I know that it's still making a difference. And 00:59:44.840 --> 00:59:47.179 that's, again, that North Star exactly. And when 00:59:47.179 --> 00:59:49.760 people said that they struggled, usually, ironically, 00:59:49.940 --> 00:59:52.000 it was the world of finance or something similar 00:59:52.000 --> 00:59:56.840 where there was chasing monetary or material 00:59:56.840 --> 01:00:01.739 gains rather than making the world better. When 01:00:01.739 --> 01:00:05.840 you reflect back now, if you'd found an envy 01:00:05.840 --> 01:00:08.320 or some sort of purpose back then, do you think 01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:13.860 you would have stayed out? Oh, 100%. Yeah. And 01:00:13.860 --> 01:00:17.940 you know what? I might even have found a role 01:00:17.940 --> 01:00:23.670 in the organization that I could have. considered 01:00:23.670 --> 01:00:27.309 a better mission for me. Trading is not it. My 01:00:27.309 --> 01:00:29.809 personality type, I can't sit behind a desk. 01:00:29.949 --> 01:00:32.909 I need to be out and about. Maybe a sales trader 01:00:32.909 --> 01:00:35.769 role, maybe in a different part of the business, 01:00:35.889 --> 01:00:39.550 I might have stayed out and not rejoined the 01:00:39.550 --> 01:00:44.210 military. Even then, I would inevitably got to 01:00:44.210 --> 01:00:46.530 this point that I'm at today. It's not quite 01:00:46.530 --> 01:00:49.760 enough. truly my mission in this world. It's 01:00:49.760 --> 01:00:52.260 not what God put me on this earth to do. And 01:00:52.260 --> 01:00:54.980 I would have, in my opinion, reflecting back 01:00:54.980 --> 01:00:57.159 now, gotten to this spot where I'm at today. 01:00:58.300 --> 01:01:00.460 So you mentioned you went back for four more 01:01:00.460 --> 01:01:03.440 years, circling around again. What made you pull 01:01:03.440 --> 01:01:05.940 the trigger of leaving again? And then how was 01:01:05.940 --> 01:01:12.719 that transition? Yeah. Politics then. So rules 01:01:12.719 --> 01:01:18.070 of engagement changed. If I'm being honest, I 01:01:18.070 --> 01:01:19.869 didn't have the great – the best leadership at 01:01:19.869 --> 01:01:27.610 that time and I had this desire because the war 01:01:27.610 --> 01:01:30.489 was changing. It was – this was probably what, 01:01:30.550 --> 01:01:35.650 2000? 13, 14, 15. So this is like 2013 to 2017. 01:01:35.789 --> 01:01:38.929 So new administration, we're kind of winding 01:01:38.929 --> 01:01:42.349 down overseas. We're not operating the way we 01:01:42.349 --> 01:01:45.349 were. So to have experienced what I did in my 01:01:45.349 --> 01:01:48.829 early career and do sometimes two missions a 01:01:48.829 --> 01:01:53.340 night, going after some really bad people. being 01:01:53.340 --> 01:01:55.500 deployed to areas where I might not even do, 01:01:55.599 --> 01:01:59.900 but like a couple missions, if we're lucky, this 01:01:59.900 --> 01:02:04.400 is like, what am I doing here? I have other things 01:02:04.400 --> 01:02:06.739 that I really want to, you know, I've identified 01:02:06.739 --> 01:02:10.039 as gaps in this world that I think we could be 01:02:10.039 --> 01:02:12.000 adding value. And, you know, I imagine we'll 01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:14.619 get to that. Mental health has started becoming 01:02:14.619 --> 01:02:17.139 an issue. We lost our first teammate in 2017 01:02:17.139 --> 01:02:22.019 to suicide. I just thought, you know what, let's 01:02:22.730 --> 01:02:26.070 Here we go again. Let's step away in this time. 01:02:26.130 --> 01:02:29.389 Let's make sure we have a plan in place. One 01:02:29.389 --> 01:02:32.769 of the least discussed elements of mental health, 01:02:32.769 --> 01:02:35.570 and sadly I've seen this rife in police fire 01:02:35.570 --> 01:02:40.369 and EMS, is organizational stress or organizational 01:02:40.369 --> 01:02:44.369 betrayal. So, for example, you know, I'm sure 01:02:44.369 --> 01:02:46.550 so many of our men and women in the military, 01:02:46.610 --> 01:02:48.949 when we saw the way the withdrawal went down 01:02:48.949 --> 01:02:51.150 from Afghanistan, you know, that must have added 01:02:51.150 --> 01:02:53.989 a crippling weight to what was already being 01:02:53.989 --> 01:02:57.250 shouldered. When the administration changed, 01:02:57.449 --> 01:02:59.610 rules of engagement changed, poor leadership, 01:02:59.889 --> 01:03:02.170 when you reflect back now, what did that do for 01:03:02.170 --> 01:03:07.289 your own mental health? I mean, just it's I remember 01:03:07.289 --> 01:03:10.800 sitting up just thinking like. Endless nights, 01:03:10.920 --> 01:03:13.039 conversation with peers, but even just lying 01:03:13.039 --> 01:03:16.900 in bed is like, what are we doing? Like, why 01:03:16.900 --> 01:03:20.460 are we back to a place and fighting over ground 01:03:20.460 --> 01:03:23.960 that I've lost teammates on? Like literally we 01:03:23.960 --> 01:03:28.440 had taken a decade before giving back because 01:03:28.440 --> 01:03:30.639 of politics and like wanting to turn it over 01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:34.039 only to now because of ISIS, go back and fight 01:03:34.039 --> 01:03:35.820 on the same ground again. It's like, what the 01:03:35.820 --> 01:03:39.980 fuck are we doing? It jaded all of us. A lot 01:03:39.980 --> 01:03:42.559 of people – a lot of good people stayed the course 01:03:42.559 --> 01:03:46.000 and are still in or continue to fight. And I 01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:47.719 have nothing but respect for them. For me, I 01:03:47.719 --> 01:03:52.320 was just – I was at a spot where I just – I couldn't 01:03:52.320 --> 01:03:56.179 see how I wanted to move forward. I didn't have 01:03:56.179 --> 01:03:59.340 trust in my immediate leadership or the overall 01:03:59.340 --> 01:04:03.300 country's leadership. And I am just the type 01:04:03.300 --> 01:04:06.900 of person that needs to be heard and wants to 01:04:06.900 --> 01:04:10.380 have input and help solve problems. And it just 01:04:10.380 --> 01:04:13.099 felt like where I was at, it wasn't going to 01:04:13.099 --> 01:04:16.179 happen anytime soon. So what was the plan for 01:04:16.179 --> 01:04:18.340 this transition? Where did you take yourself 01:04:18.340 --> 01:04:22.860 instead of finance? Yeah. So we had started a 01:04:22.860 --> 01:04:25.139 foundation from my Goldman experience. So prior 01:04:25.139 --> 01:04:27.719 to getting back in, we realized how hard it is 01:04:27.719 --> 01:04:29.860 to transition. So we started the Seal Future 01:04:29.860 --> 01:04:32.139 Foundation and it was initially set up to help 01:04:32.139 --> 01:04:35.440 these men find their next purpose in life. Our 01:04:35.440 --> 01:04:39.099 little, I guess, mantra is purpose, passion, 01:04:39.239 --> 01:04:41.920 team, right? So we got the purpose, the mission 01:04:41.920 --> 01:04:44.059 that we've been talking about. If you're passionate 01:04:44.059 --> 01:04:45.480 about what you do and you have your brothers, 01:04:45.579 --> 01:04:48.760 you have the team, we believe you could be successful 01:04:48.760 --> 01:04:51.530 in your next chapter. And we partner with great 01:04:51.530 --> 01:04:55.190 organizations with similar cultures to ours. 01:04:55.849 --> 01:04:59.130 So put mission first, teammates above self. And 01:04:59.130 --> 01:05:00.969 we found those companies out there that actually 01:05:00.969 --> 01:05:04.269 do that. Startups, big companies, a company that 01:05:04.269 --> 01:05:05.989 I work for, Capital Group, which was started 01:05:05.989 --> 01:05:10.389 by a veteran also in finance. It's a big asset 01:05:10.389 --> 01:05:12.670 management firm, but they incentivize how their 01:05:12.670 --> 01:05:15.110 team performs because of this veteran. They don't 01:05:15.110 --> 01:05:17.389 say, sir, yes, ma 'am, back in the 30s when this 01:05:17.389 --> 01:05:21.090 particular. A gentleman started the company and 01:05:21.090 --> 01:05:23.909 people couldn't help themselves. So he made everybody 01:05:23.909 --> 01:05:27.130 go by initials. So my initials were JTDW. So 01:05:27.130 --> 01:05:28.869 think about that. Like he was like, please stop 01:05:28.869 --> 01:05:31.550 calling me, sir, the humility that this man had 01:05:31.550 --> 01:05:34.030 back in the Great Depression as he started Capital 01:05:34.030 --> 01:05:37.889 Group. And people are just – it's 1930. You can't 01:05:37.889 --> 01:05:39.309 help yourself. You're going to keep saying sir 01:05:39.309 --> 01:05:41.420 or ma 'am. So he's like, enough. We're all going 01:05:41.420 --> 01:05:43.920 with initials. But we found companies like that 01:05:43.920 --> 01:05:46.940 and we empowered people through education. We 01:05:46.940 --> 01:05:49.460 partnered with great institutions, colleges, 01:05:49.659 --> 01:05:51.820 universities around the country, and then Globe. 01:05:53.059 --> 01:05:56.920 And we started helping these men find their next 01:05:56.920 --> 01:06:00.559 role in life. And then as mentioned, we had under 01:06:00.559 --> 01:06:03.960 our watch in 2017, we had a SEAL commit suicide. 01:06:04.280 --> 01:06:06.079 And he was our first. We were supposed to meet 01:06:06.079 --> 01:06:09.980 with him Monday. Pretty senior SEAL Team 6 member. 01:06:10.749 --> 01:06:14.230 And he was FaceTiming his wife over the weekend 01:06:14.230 --> 01:06:16.489 and shot himself on FaceTime talking to his wife. 01:06:17.170 --> 01:06:20.530 And that was the first. And that was devastating 01:06:20.530 --> 01:06:22.949 for the community, for all of us, because that 01:06:22.949 --> 01:06:28.050 was the first suicide. And we thought, you know, 01:06:28.090 --> 01:06:29.750 a lot of us think we're invincible when we're 01:06:29.750 --> 01:06:32.070 younger and we're part of a community like that. 01:06:32.469 --> 01:06:35.070 And we're not. And I've lost a lot of friends 01:06:35.070 --> 01:06:41.650 to suicide today. dark thoughts of my own in 01:06:41.650 --> 01:06:44.369 my low points like suicide ideation is real you 01:06:44.369 --> 01:06:46.750 think about it's fleeting thoughts for me and 01:06:46.750 --> 01:06:49.949 for others they take it a step further and um 01:06:49.949 --> 01:06:55.829 but you know for us that seal future foundation 01:06:55.829 --> 01:07:01.610 was what allowed us to create this plan for the 01:07:01.610 --> 01:07:04.710 next chapter and that next chapter was in the 01:07:04.710 --> 01:07:08.099 mind health so When Bill Mulder committed suicide, 01:07:08.420 --> 01:07:12.320 what we did is we threw wearables on seals, 1 01:07:12.320 --> 01:07:15.380 ,500 seals, and we tracked biometrics. And there's 01:07:15.380 --> 01:07:17.619 research that shows there's correlation between 01:07:17.619 --> 01:07:20.380 heart rate variability. You mentioned sleep. 01:07:20.480 --> 01:07:24.460 Sleep, by far, to me, and I think there's few 01:07:24.460 --> 01:07:26.039 people that would disagree with this, is the 01:07:26.039 --> 01:07:28.780 cornerstone of mental health and overall health. 01:07:29.300 --> 01:07:32.099 But you can see all those biometrics. And we 01:07:32.099 --> 01:07:36.969 used a whoop strap as an example. the ability 01:07:36.969 --> 01:07:39.230 to force the conversation. So historically you 01:07:39.230 --> 01:07:42.010 and I are best friend, James, and I asked you 01:07:42.010 --> 01:07:43.809 how you're doing and I know you're not doing 01:07:43.809 --> 01:07:47.750 well, but you respond with, I'm okay. And with 01:07:47.750 --> 01:07:50.070 the stigma around it, like maybe I'll push a 01:07:50.070 --> 01:07:51.889 little bit further, but you'll get annoyed. And 01:07:51.889 --> 01:07:53.929 he was like, dude, I'm good. And I leave it alone. 01:07:54.650 --> 01:07:58.010 But now we had the data that allowed us to take 01:07:58.010 --> 01:08:00.730 it a step further. So I'd be like, dude, listen, 01:08:00.889 --> 01:08:02.329 let's just figure out what's going on. I could 01:08:02.329 --> 01:08:03.889 tell you haven't slept in four days. I could 01:08:03.889 --> 01:08:06.409 tell you've been boozing. Like you told me to 01:08:06.409 --> 01:08:08.269 be your accountability partner. Let's just figure 01:08:08.269 --> 01:08:11.110 out what's up. Come on. Let's have a conversation. 01:08:11.789 --> 01:08:14.130 And that allowed us to get resources to those 01:08:14.130 --> 01:08:16.930 guys as well. And that was the plan. The plan 01:08:16.930 --> 01:08:19.569 was like how do I take something that worked 01:08:19.569 --> 01:08:22.250 in our little community of SEALs, know when the 01:08:22.250 --> 01:08:24.529 world needs this, scale it to other veterans, 01:08:24.789 --> 01:08:27.810 and oh, by the way, first responders too. I have 01:08:27.810 --> 01:08:31.180 no fucking idea. Maybe there's a program out 01:08:31.180 --> 01:08:32.760 there that will allow us to build something. 01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:36.100 And Oxford has a really cool MBA incubator program. 01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:39.739 So I spent two years at Oxford building this 01:08:39.739 --> 01:08:43.460 idea out. And that was the start of this business. 01:08:44.260 --> 01:08:47.539 Two years at Oxford physically or virtually? 01:08:49.199 --> 01:08:52.939 It was a hybrid, mostly virtually. I'd say 60 01:08:52.939 --> 01:08:56.359 % virtually, 40 % physically. Okay. Very cool. 01:08:57.000 --> 01:08:59.279 That's a very prestigious university back home. 01:09:00.619 --> 01:09:03.699 Yeah, it was one of the most amazing experiences 01:09:03.699 --> 01:09:08.600 of my life. And when I mentioned uni, I was being 01:09:08.600 --> 01:09:10.979 a little tongue -in -cheek there, but the reality 01:09:10.979 --> 01:09:13.600 is I did go to uni. And those are some of the 01:09:13.600 --> 01:09:16.680 best friends I have, very successful men and 01:09:16.680 --> 01:09:19.380 women throughout their own industries. And I 01:09:19.380 --> 01:09:21.579 just really appreciated the fact that we have 01:09:21.579 --> 01:09:25.119 such polarizing different views. But we would 01:09:25.119 --> 01:09:28.000 literally have a pint and then sing on the way 01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:30.460 home back to our dorm rooms, to our different 01:09:30.460 --> 01:09:37.260 colleges. So that is how we get there. And I 01:09:37.260 --> 01:09:38.899 know we're kind of taking this in a different 01:09:38.899 --> 01:09:41.140 direction, but how we get there on a bigger scale 01:09:41.140 --> 01:09:44.579 is how we probably solve or improve the situation 01:09:44.579 --> 01:09:47.020 that we all find ourselves in right now. Absolutely. 01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:50.079 Well, we are sitting here obviously now in 2025 01:09:50.079 --> 01:09:53.420 where technology on the phones, wearables have 01:09:53.420 --> 01:09:56.760 progressed even more. So that was the genesis 01:09:56.760 --> 01:10:00.020 of Envy. Talk to me about where you are now and 01:10:00.020 --> 01:10:05.180 what the application looks like. Yeah, so we 01:10:05.180 --> 01:10:07.279 initially thought about making our own wearable, 01:10:07.340 --> 01:10:10.180 right? And our focus is mental well -being, mental 01:10:10.180 --> 01:10:13.579 resiliency, mental health. A big part of what 01:10:13.579 --> 01:10:17.640 we were hoping to do is to... to identify people's 01:10:17.640 --> 01:10:20.500 trend lines and potentially, and you can never 01:10:20.500 --> 01:10:22.899 say you've prevented suicide because you need 01:10:22.899 --> 01:10:26.720 an endpoint, but potentially stop somebody from 01:10:26.720 --> 01:10:28.500 getting into a situation where they're considering 01:10:28.500 --> 01:10:31.180 doing that. And I think we absolutely do that. 01:10:31.279 --> 01:10:34.439 We opted not to do the hardware. We opted to 01:10:34.439 --> 01:10:37.159 build APIs. So we wrote codes to all the different 01:10:37.159 --> 01:10:41.659 wearables. We pull biometrics onto our app. So 01:10:41.659 --> 01:10:43.500 we have an app. That's how the user interfaces 01:10:43.500 --> 01:10:46.380 with it. And we give you what we call a mind 01:10:46.380 --> 01:10:49.920 score. So if you were to engage with the app, 01:10:50.100 --> 01:10:52.239 you would log in. It's going to ask you some 01:10:52.239 --> 01:10:54.319 information. It's important. We don't sell data. 01:10:54.460 --> 01:10:57.260 We're not selling your data. That's not what 01:10:57.260 --> 01:10:59.060 this company is about. This company truly is 01:10:59.060 --> 01:11:02.819 about helping folks that have served identify 01:11:02.819 --> 01:11:05.159 how they're doing, identify how their peers are 01:11:05.159 --> 01:11:09.199 doing, and then improve the situation. But we 01:11:09.199 --> 01:11:11.079 asked you a few questions that our doctors from 01:11:11.079 --> 01:11:13.520 Walter Reed helped us with. So roughly like a 01:11:13.520 --> 01:11:18.500 PHQ -9, GAD -7, we asked four questions. And 01:11:18.500 --> 01:11:21.760 that information plus the biometrics gives you 01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:27.130 a MIND score. is important but not as important 01:11:27.130 --> 01:11:29.949 as trend lines off of that mind score so we've 01:11:29.949 --> 01:11:32.310 built our whole system off of that mind score 01:11:32.310 --> 01:11:34.789 so if your score decreases by say two percent 01:11:34.789 --> 01:11:38.130 you get an alert hey, just letting you know your 01:11:38.130 --> 01:11:40.090 score is down a couple points, not a big deal. 01:11:40.149 --> 01:11:43.609 Cool. If it decreases by 5%, hey, we're recognizing 01:11:43.609 --> 01:11:46.050 a pattern over the last three days. Just letting 01:11:46.050 --> 01:11:48.289 you know you're moving in this direction. We've 01:11:48.289 --> 01:11:50.350 also identified that your sleep's been disrupted, 01:11:50.630 --> 01:11:53.609 specifically deep sleep. It has decreased by 01:11:53.609 --> 01:11:56.090 50 % the last three. Here's a couple deep sleep 01:11:56.090 --> 01:11:58.390 solutions from our human performance experts 01:11:58.390 --> 01:12:01.659 if you have time to view those. If it gets worse 01:12:01.659 --> 01:12:03.340 than that, I think the most innovative thing 01:12:03.340 --> 01:12:05.319 or differentiated thing that we've done is we've 01:12:05.319 --> 01:12:07.680 just taken this idea from the SEAL teams and 01:12:07.680 --> 01:12:12.859 we've created what we call swim buddies. So sometimes 01:12:12.859 --> 01:12:15.939 we don't know when we're in that dark place, 01:12:16.000 --> 01:12:18.720 right? And the world's telling us, they're screaming 01:12:18.720 --> 01:12:21.699 it to us, but we don't know. So what we've done 01:12:21.699 --> 01:12:23.779 is if you and I are best friends and we want 01:12:23.779 --> 01:12:25.720 to be on this platform together or your spouse 01:12:25.720 --> 01:12:28.359 or your actual swim buddy or your battle buddy 01:12:28.359 --> 01:12:31.739 or your fight, whatever it is, now that person 01:12:31.739 --> 01:12:33.539 will get an alert. Hey, you should probably check 01:12:33.539 --> 01:12:37.079 in on Johnny today. This is what we're seeing. 01:12:37.220 --> 01:12:39.560 Just give him a call or a text. Then in the app, 01:12:39.579 --> 01:12:42.539 you can immediately pull up WhatsApp or a text 01:12:42.539 --> 01:12:44.300 or you can even call. You just click on the call 01:12:44.300 --> 01:12:47.689 button and it will pull it up. We do have personalized 01:12:47.689 --> 01:12:49.970 solutions. So this is all data -driven, to your 01:12:49.970 --> 01:12:53.810 point. When we started this, this was pre the 01:12:53.810 --> 01:12:56.750 level of AI that we've seen. So we weren't really 01:12:56.750 --> 01:13:01.010 using AI to the level that we are now. But now 01:13:01.010 --> 01:13:04.329 we just look at all the data. AI can see what 01:13:04.329 --> 01:13:08.529 in this chain of data sequences is off. And then 01:13:08.529 --> 01:13:10.729 we can provide you with a personalized solution. 01:13:10.810 --> 01:13:13.409 Again, I use an example of sleep. If your deep 01:13:13.409 --> 01:13:17.029 sleep is off, That's what's impacting your overall 01:13:17.029 --> 01:13:18.890 score. Then we'll just send you an alert. Here's 01:13:18.890 --> 01:13:22.270 some deep sleep solutions. I think what we've 01:13:22.270 --> 01:13:24.890 done is we're trying to be preventative, which 01:13:24.890 --> 01:13:27.289 is unique. Majority of the mental well -being 01:13:27.289 --> 01:13:31.649 space until recently was reactive or being proactive. 01:13:32.310 --> 01:13:35.029 We've created a community so you get to select 01:13:35.029 --> 01:13:39.109 who it is. We have contracts with agencies around 01:13:39.109 --> 01:13:41.350 the country, first responder agencies, and they 01:13:41.350 --> 01:13:44.310 have a dashboard. I mentioned that. I can go 01:13:44.310 --> 01:13:48.069 into that here in a second. But how we do it 01:13:48.069 --> 01:13:49.710 now is you just pick your swim buddies and you 01:13:49.710 --> 01:13:51.930 can see how they're doing. And then the third 01:13:51.930 --> 01:13:55.010 big thing that we do is we prescribe. Prescribe 01:13:55.010 --> 01:13:57.409 is not the right word. We give you access to 01:13:57.409 --> 01:14:02.050 proactive or, I'm sorry, aligned solutions to 01:14:02.050 --> 01:14:04.949 the challenge. So being prescriptive, I guess, 01:14:04.970 --> 01:14:08.489 maybe is a way to describe it. I really love 01:14:08.489 --> 01:14:11.029 the idea of the swim buddy model. The reason 01:14:11.029 --> 01:14:14.520 being. early early on when i started this you 01:14:14.520 --> 01:14:20.279 know 2016 2017 ish you would have that person 01:14:20.279 --> 01:14:23.279 who was the beacon of light for everyone else 01:14:23.279 --> 01:14:26.039 and everyone behind the scenes would flock to 01:14:26.039 --> 01:14:27.600 that person and their phone would be ringing 01:14:27.600 --> 01:14:29.359 off the hook and then you'd watch that person 01:14:29.359 --> 01:14:31.079 start spiraling because they're taking on all 01:14:31.079 --> 01:14:34.359 this you know this trauma from the outside and 01:14:34.359 --> 01:14:36.899 when you look at the model all all we really 01:14:36.899 --> 01:14:40.579 need is for one person to care about us and another 01:14:40.579 --> 01:14:42.539 person you know for us to care about one person 01:14:42.539 --> 01:14:45.960 if everyone does that we split it 50 50 then 01:14:45.960 --> 01:14:48.239 that's it we've we've shouldered the load for 01:14:48.239 --> 01:14:49.939 all of us you know and obviously you want to 01:14:49.939 --> 01:14:52.159 expand maybe a little bit more than that but 01:14:52.159 --> 01:14:56.560 so so often like in my profession in yours you 01:14:56.560 --> 01:14:58.500 know we're all in the meat grinder together so 01:14:58.500 --> 01:15:00.880 if you're in deployment with a high op tempo 01:15:00.880 --> 01:15:02.880 or i'm in a fire station just getting murdered 01:15:02.880 --> 01:15:07.000 you know 24 48 hours at a time I seem fine to 01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:09.899 my friend because he's in the other seat. But 01:15:09.899 --> 01:15:13.399 how am I looking to my wife or my friend that 01:15:13.399 --> 01:15:15.319 isn't a firefighter? And I think this is what 01:15:15.319 --> 01:15:17.220 is really good about this model is you can enter 01:15:17.220 --> 01:15:20.020 a few people, some that were right next to you, 01:15:20.100 --> 01:15:22.880 some that are completely outside. And so between 01:15:22.880 --> 01:15:26.439 those three, four, five people, hopefully then 01:15:26.439 --> 01:15:28.119 they're going to start seeing a difference, whether 01:15:28.119 --> 01:15:31.479 it's on the metrics and or in person. Because 01:15:31.479 --> 01:15:34.100 even if we're side by side, if I look at the 01:15:34.100 --> 01:15:36.539 phone, that can tell me. Even though I think, 01:15:36.539 --> 01:15:39.020 you know, James is doing okay. Actually, James 01:15:39.020 --> 01:15:41.979 is not doing okay. So I really like this model 01:15:41.979 --> 01:15:44.460 because you're spreading everything out. You're 01:15:44.460 --> 01:15:46.420 personalizing it to people that you trust. You're 01:15:46.420 --> 01:15:49.359 giving, as you said, proactive signs rather than, 01:15:49.359 --> 01:15:50.939 okay, well, he's got a bottle of whiskey and 01:15:50.939 --> 01:15:53.279 a gun in his hand. It's kind of a, not too late, 01:15:53.359 --> 01:15:56.220 but we're a really critical time. But again, 01:15:56.380 --> 01:16:00.500 you know, allowing, allowing. just a few people 01:16:00.500 --> 01:16:02.619 to shoulder each of these loads so that we can 01:16:02.619 --> 01:16:05.079 spread it all out and don't burn out the peer 01:16:05.079 --> 01:16:07.439 support people or that one guy you know that 01:16:07.439 --> 01:16:09.300 almost killed himself and now he speaks around 01:16:09.300 --> 01:16:14.479 the country or whoever it is yeah yeah no i think 01:16:14.479 --> 01:16:16.199 we we've learned a lot of lessons throughout 01:16:16.199 --> 01:16:21.039 the years And, you know, it seems to be well 01:16:21.039 --> 01:16:23.060 -received. I think the agencies really appreciate 01:16:23.060 --> 01:16:25.720 this, too. Like, we think about an agency where 01:16:25.720 --> 01:16:27.800 maybe there was a recent suicide or an officer 01:16:27.800 --> 01:16:31.819 that was killed on duty. Well, man, like, I appreciate 01:16:31.819 --> 01:16:34.739 we still have a job to do, but, like, we're part 01:16:34.739 --> 01:16:36.680 of a community, you mentioned this before, where 01:16:36.680 --> 01:16:38.800 it's become challenging to express, like, hey, 01:16:38.819 --> 01:16:41.420 I'm not doing well. Like, what happens if I raise 01:16:41.420 --> 01:16:43.199 my hand? And the teams, I would never do that, 01:16:43.239 --> 01:16:45.119 even when I wasn't doing well, because I'd get 01:16:45.119 --> 01:16:47.460 taken off. Like, I'm fair of retribution, be 01:16:47.460 --> 01:16:50.869 pulled off the... Out of the lineup and maybe 01:16:50.869 --> 01:16:52.689 even be sent home. So I would never raise my 01:16:52.689 --> 01:16:54.710 hand. And oh, by the way, you know this better 01:16:54.710 --> 01:16:57.210 than most. Like all those little traumas, all 01:16:57.210 --> 01:16:58.930 those little things that we compartmentalize, 01:16:58.930 --> 01:17:01.409 at some point that bucket becomes full and it 01:17:01.409 --> 01:17:04.869 comes out. It always comes out. So how do we 01:17:04.869 --> 01:17:06.729 address that up front now? Well, now, I mean, 01:17:06.789 --> 01:17:08.850 with this – the dashboard part of this is where 01:17:08.850 --> 01:17:13.729 an agency can now – and again, some – cultures 01:17:13.729 --> 01:17:15.689 are different than others so there are some like 01:17:15.689 --> 01:17:17.949 SWAT teams where they just put all their information 01:17:17.949 --> 01:17:19.989 on there they rank and stack them they see it 01:17:19.989 --> 01:17:21.529 and they just support each other like hey I trust 01:17:21.529 --> 01:17:24.050 everybody on this team I want I want us to be 01:17:24.050 --> 01:17:26.229 optimal I want us to be the best version of ourselves 01:17:26.229 --> 01:17:28.750 cool there's other agencies that are like I don't 01:17:28.750 --> 01:17:31.090 want anything to do with showing my data to anybody 01:17:31.090 --> 01:17:34.270 so we de -identify data as well right and then 01:17:34.270 --> 01:17:35.529 at the end of the day if you don't want your 01:17:35.529 --> 01:17:37.949 agency to have this and totally understand that 01:17:37.949 --> 01:17:39.890 like go get it yourself. Like we have a free 01:17:39.890 --> 01:17:42.069 version in the app store because our mission 01:17:42.069 --> 01:17:45.770 is to save and improve lives through by making 01:17:45.770 --> 01:17:47.949 the invisible visible. And then if, you know, 01:17:47.949 --> 01:17:49.649 if you get to a spot where you want some access 01:17:49.649 --> 01:17:52.640 to, to more premier, like We have access to the 01:17:52.640 --> 01:17:55.020 videos from human performance and doctors and 01:17:55.020 --> 01:17:57.340 stuff like that. You can get access to that through 01:17:57.340 --> 01:18:01.319 a paid version as well. But we're trying to help 01:18:01.319 --> 01:18:04.340 as many people as possible. And one of the things 01:18:04.340 --> 01:18:06.420 that we identify to be counterintuitive, even 01:18:06.420 --> 01:18:08.500 though we are trying to figure out how to become 01:18:08.500 --> 01:18:12.939 a viable business, to charge everybody out of 01:18:12.939 --> 01:18:14.899 the gate. So that's why we opted to go with a 01:18:14.899 --> 01:18:19.819 free version as well. Again, early on. you started 01:18:19.819 --> 01:18:22.079 seeing a lot of resistance when it came to this 01:18:22.079 --> 01:18:25.399 conversation and, and, you know, push back from 01:18:25.399 --> 01:18:28.560 the self -described alphas, for example, and 01:18:28.560 --> 01:18:31.000 I fucking hate that term, but anyway, you know, 01:18:31.039 --> 01:18:35.100 the kind of person I'm talking about. And so 01:18:35.100 --> 01:18:37.659 what I realized more recently is that you can 01:18:37.659 --> 01:18:40.859 reframe it and have the exact same results. So 01:18:40.859 --> 01:18:43.020 if we're talking about mental health, for example, 01:18:43.020 --> 01:18:46.699 in the fire service and you've got the, you know, 01:18:47.069 --> 01:18:49.390 the alpha firefighter who's all about, you know, 01:18:49.390 --> 01:18:52.170 getting the baby from the home, you tell them, 01:18:52.189 --> 01:18:53.810 well, there's no way in hell that you'll be able 01:18:53.810 --> 01:18:57.010 to get into a flow state with a busy mind. You 01:18:57.010 --> 01:18:59.710 need, you know, high stress environment. You 01:18:59.710 --> 01:19:02.189 need thousands and thousands of reps and you 01:19:02.189 --> 01:19:06.029 need a calm mind. So if you want to be the firefighter 01:19:06.029 --> 01:19:07.850 that you think you are in your head and you want 01:19:07.850 --> 01:19:10.789 to operate the highest level. then you need to 01:19:10.789 --> 01:19:12.590 work on your own mental health. You need to meditate. 01:19:12.670 --> 01:19:15.390 You need to go to see counseling. You need plant 01:19:15.390 --> 01:19:18.510 medicine, whatever it is. So then, yes, you truly 01:19:18.510 --> 01:19:21.829 can enter a burning building and completely blacked 01:19:21.829 --> 01:19:24.130 out, find your way around that room, find that 01:19:24.130 --> 01:19:27.449 child and get them out. So flipping it around 01:19:27.449 --> 01:19:30.329 for a moment, you're part of an organization 01:19:30.329 --> 01:19:34.260 where elite high performance is imperative. I 01:19:34.260 --> 01:19:35.859 would argue that I am, even though sometimes 01:19:35.859 --> 01:19:38.100 we're not seen that way. I mean, it's the same 01:19:38.100 --> 01:19:41.140 thing. Lives are in our hands. How can we use 01:19:41.140 --> 01:19:43.840 envy to actually help forge performance rather 01:19:43.840 --> 01:19:48.220 than just focusing on the kind of the sadder, 01:19:48.220 --> 01:19:53.520 let's avoid suicide conversation? Yeah, I was 01:19:53.520 --> 01:19:57.859 giggling because we experienced this maybe three 01:19:57.859 --> 01:19:59.520 years ago. There's an agency that brought us 01:19:59.520 --> 01:20:02.539 in and we were. They had just lost somebody to 01:20:02.539 --> 01:20:04.939 suicide, so we were sharing with them what we 01:20:04.939 --> 01:20:07.300 could potentially do with that. And we had the 01:20:07.300 --> 01:20:10.279 whole agency there, leadership side. So probably 01:20:10.279 --> 01:20:12.079 30 folks in there as we presented. We had our 01:20:12.079 --> 01:20:13.880 chief medical officer talking about fight or 01:20:13.880 --> 01:20:17.319 flight. and um being hyper vigilant and always 01:20:17.319 --> 01:20:19.500 on and like the the impact that has on your body 01:20:19.500 --> 01:20:21.760 we did the physiological presentation then we 01:20:21.760 --> 01:20:23.600 talked about indy and how it can prevent suicide 01:20:23.600 --> 01:20:27.140 and i i'm pretty in tune with rooms like i do 01:20:27.140 --> 01:20:30.300 a lot of public speaking and i can gauge what's 01:20:30.300 --> 01:20:32.800 going on and i'll tell you that room was crickets 01:20:32.800 --> 01:20:37.100 uncomfortable like nobody despite them asking 01:20:37.100 --> 01:20:39.079 us to come in to have a conversation around like 01:20:39.079 --> 01:20:43.180 potentially using envy um as a tool that can 01:20:43.180 --> 01:20:45.859 identify uh people that aren't doing well like 01:20:45.859 --> 01:20:50.680 it was this agency and to be fair majority of 01:20:50.680 --> 01:20:52.699 agencies if not all agencies aren't ready to 01:20:52.699 --> 01:20:54.319 have a conversation around suicide prevention 01:20:54.319 --> 01:20:57.479 they're just maybe there's individual champions 01:20:57.479 --> 01:20:59.619 in there the peer -to -peer support groups are 01:20:59.619 --> 01:21:02.100 but and then you have maybe you know one person 01:21:02.100 --> 01:21:04.880 that's been impacted by it but overall the whole 01:21:04.880 --> 01:21:07.659 entity is still like we're we're not there as 01:21:07.659 --> 01:21:10.800 a country And in my opinion, we're leading the 01:21:10.800 --> 01:21:12.899 way. Like you look at England, for example, because 01:21:12.899 --> 01:21:15.819 we are talking to folks over there. Like in my 01:21:15.819 --> 01:21:18.859 opinion, you all are – like England, the UK is 01:21:18.859 --> 01:21:21.180 a decade plus behind us. And if we're not there, 01:21:21.239 --> 01:21:25.079 my god, that scares the shit out of me. To your 01:21:25.079 --> 01:21:27.060 point, we just reframed everything, dude. We 01:21:27.060 --> 01:21:30.579 said, hey, let's talk about mental resilience. 01:21:31.680 --> 01:21:34.680 Let's talk about mental optimization, flow state. 01:21:34.800 --> 01:21:38.840 Let's do all – same freaking thing, dude. It 01:21:38.840 --> 01:21:41.720 really is. But we reframed, used words. Words 01:21:41.720 --> 01:21:43.920 have meaning. I understand that now. And the 01:21:43.920 --> 01:21:46.119 next thing you know, we're starting to get contracts 01:21:46.119 --> 01:21:48.340 with agencies. Hey, you're sitting here saying 01:21:48.340 --> 01:21:51.460 you want to be the best ladder team out there. 01:21:52.159 --> 01:21:54.760 Well, how can you guarantee if you're not in 01:21:54.760 --> 01:21:57.420 the best mental state? If you guys aren't optimizing, 01:21:57.699 --> 01:21:59.619 if one of your peers isn't optimizing, you don't 01:21:59.619 --> 01:22:02.119 even know that. If you collectively want to be 01:22:02.119 --> 01:22:05.039 the best of the best. then, you know, we have 01:22:05.039 --> 01:22:07.079 a platform for you that can help. And oh, by 01:22:07.079 --> 01:22:09.579 the way, and that's true, like, because we can 01:22:09.579 --> 01:22:11.479 see that stuff through the biometrics and we 01:22:11.479 --> 01:22:13.960 can help people improve. And oh, by the way, 01:22:14.020 --> 01:22:17.279 you know, we can also catch when people are struggling 01:22:17.279 --> 01:22:19.659 immensely and potentially get to them before 01:22:19.659 --> 01:22:22.979 they get to that spot. So we reframed it and 01:22:22.979 --> 01:22:25.600 just moved, like, initially it was like suicide 01:22:25.600 --> 01:22:27.680 prevention and then let's talk about optimization. 01:22:27.779 --> 01:22:30.239 We did this. And everybody's like, holy shit, 01:22:30.300 --> 01:22:33.550 yeah, where do we sign? It was pretty interesting 01:22:33.550 --> 01:22:36.329 to see. Does that answer the question? I mean, 01:22:36.350 --> 01:22:38.449 it's just maybe me just acknowledging what you 01:22:38.449 --> 01:22:42.250 already know. No, no, it does. It absolutely 01:22:42.250 --> 01:22:44.430 does. It's funny with those rooms. I've had people 01:22:44.430 --> 01:22:47.149 after suicides locally in a fire department. 01:22:47.369 --> 01:22:51.550 Hey, what do you suggest? And I'm like, well. 01:22:52.170 --> 01:22:54.189 Let's start with the work week. And they're like, 01:22:54.350 --> 01:22:57.210 oh, no, we didn't want to hear that. Like, is 01:22:57.210 --> 01:22:59.890 there an app? Yeah, we've had that conversation 01:22:59.890 --> 01:23:02.270 too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've had that conversation 01:23:02.270 --> 01:23:04.949 too. Like, nope, that ain't going to happen. 01:23:05.090 --> 01:23:08.369 I'm like, all right. Yeah, exactly. So you didn't 01:23:08.369 --> 01:23:09.989 actually want to fix the problem is what you're 01:23:09.989 --> 01:23:12.430 telling me. Got it. All right. Well, let's go 01:23:12.430 --> 01:23:15.630 to another amazing, amazing solution. Again, 01:23:15.710 --> 01:23:17.710 arguably, depending on when people go through 01:23:17.710 --> 01:23:20.829 this. It's being used more reactively at the 01:23:20.829 --> 01:23:23.930 moment, but so effective. You mentioned about 01:23:23.930 --> 01:23:26.569 one of your teammates introducing you to the 01:23:26.569 --> 01:23:28.649 world of plant medicine, like so many people 01:23:28.649 --> 01:23:30.409 that were raised in that this is your brain on 01:23:30.409 --> 01:23:32.829 drugs, you know, propaganda. You know, there's 01:23:32.829 --> 01:23:35.470 that knee jerk initially. So walk me through 01:23:35.470 --> 01:23:38.229 learning more about it and then your own experience. 01:23:39.970 --> 01:23:43.189 Yeah, I will start. I'm very analytical, probably 01:23:43.189 --> 01:23:46.430 from my time at Goldman. Like I need to see the 01:23:46.430 --> 01:23:49.829 data. So there is a component of that that really 01:23:49.829 --> 01:23:53.550 where I became a believer and I'm giving the 01:23:53.550 --> 01:23:56.029 end of the story up front is when I did my own 01:23:56.029 --> 01:23:58.890 journey and I was tracking my biometrics and 01:23:58.890 --> 01:24:03.390 I watched my HRV triple instantaneously. I watched 01:24:03.390 --> 01:24:07.350 my deep and REM sleep go for minutes a night 01:24:07.350 --> 01:24:09.609 on average, like literally 15 minutes a night 01:24:09.609 --> 01:24:13.350 to on average today closer to two hours a night, 01:24:13.350 --> 01:24:19.850 right? From one psychedelic experience. So we 01:24:19.850 --> 01:24:22.789 have – and one other thing on envy is like we've 01:24:22.789 --> 01:24:24.430 – because of the relationships that we have in 01:24:24.430 --> 01:24:26.569 the psychedelic space, part of me wants to help 01:24:26.569 --> 01:24:28.630 them show the world that this is a viable option. 01:24:28.729 --> 01:24:33.109 This is an ethical option. And a lot of people 01:24:33.109 --> 01:24:36.069 want to see the data. So we have a lot of contracts 01:24:36.069 --> 01:24:38.329 and relationships. We're doing research using 01:24:38.329 --> 01:24:42.039 our envy platform with – combat veterans going 01:24:42.039 --> 01:24:44.520 through psychedelic assisted therapy. We have 01:24:44.520 --> 01:24:47.319 folks using Ibogaine and other psychedelic interventions, 01:24:47.539 --> 01:24:50.520 and we help them by giving them wearables plus 01:24:50.520 --> 01:24:53.560 envy to show pre, during, and post. And then 01:24:53.560 --> 01:24:56.140 we give them research papers, and then they can 01:24:56.140 --> 01:24:59.939 take that to the VA and to the legislators to 01:24:59.939 --> 01:25:02.960 help them push forward the initiative. So my 01:25:02.960 --> 01:25:06.560 own personal journey was probably similar to 01:25:06.560 --> 01:25:11.470 a lot of guys in our shoes. Maybe this resonates 01:25:11.470 --> 01:25:16.750 with you. It wasn't me. It was you. I was never 01:25:16.750 --> 01:25:22.829 fucked up. It was the world. I would argue, no, 01:25:22.930 --> 01:25:26.170 you don't get it. You don't get me. I don't want 01:25:26.170 --> 01:25:28.829 any part of you. I would isolate. I just didn't 01:25:28.829 --> 01:25:33.949 like people. As mentioned earlier, the world 01:25:33.949 --> 01:25:36.029 has congratulated me and I'm at one of the lowest 01:25:36.029 --> 01:25:38.449 points in my life. I'm finally making real money. 01:25:38.970 --> 01:25:41.430 My family's happy. I'm no longer deployed, but 01:25:41.430 --> 01:25:44.130 there was this dark, just empty void inside of 01:25:44.130 --> 01:25:47.630 me. I was not happy. I didn't have purpose. And 01:25:47.630 --> 01:25:51.170 I didn't know what to do. You know, there's suicide 01:25:51.170 --> 01:25:53.890 ideation was real. Like I remember driving home 01:25:53.890 --> 01:25:56.310 from Wall Street a couple of times over bridges 01:25:56.310 --> 01:25:58.430 and be like, how easy would this be? Right. Like 01:25:58.430 --> 01:26:05.979 how easy if I just hard right this wheel. And 01:26:05.979 --> 01:26:07.680 then it would just be fleeting. I'd be like, 01:26:07.699 --> 01:26:09.199 all right, well, let me change the radio station 01:26:09.199 --> 01:26:11.920 and keep heading home. But my point there is 01:26:11.920 --> 01:26:14.420 I was not in a good place. And I had – the VA 01:26:14.420 --> 01:26:19.180 system is overwhelmed. It's gotten better from 01:26:19.180 --> 01:26:21.960 my understanding. But for me, it failed me personally 01:26:21.960 --> 01:26:24.960 where I finally got to a spot where everybody, 01:26:25.159 --> 01:26:28.439 my wife, peers, friends, others, you got to go 01:26:28.439 --> 01:26:31.420 talk to somebody. And I finally like admitted, 01:26:31.600 --> 01:26:35.289 OK, maybe I should go talk to somebody. And I 01:26:35.289 --> 01:26:39.770 remember driving there, getting there early, 01:26:40.069 --> 01:26:44.770 like significantly early, and not being able 01:26:44.770 --> 01:26:47.149 to find a parking spot within a fucking mile 01:26:47.149 --> 01:26:50.729 of the VA. When I finally did park and finally 01:26:50.729 --> 01:26:55.210 hauled ass, ran to the VA, I get in there and 01:26:55.210 --> 01:26:58.010 I get an earful from the receptionist about being 01:26:58.010 --> 01:27:01.729 timely. And that was it for me. I was like, are 01:27:01.729 --> 01:27:03.409 you fucking kidding me? I've been here for 45 01:27:03.409 --> 01:27:08.189 minutes trying to – had a blow up because maybe 01:27:08.189 --> 01:27:10.729 she had a bad day. I don't know. But it's not 01:27:10.729 --> 01:27:13.250 – I was already in a vulnerable spot and I was 01:27:13.250 --> 01:27:17.810 already not willing to receive anything from 01:27:17.810 --> 01:27:21.170 anybody at that very moment. So I did talk to 01:27:21.170 --> 01:27:23.210 somebody. I felt like they weren't trained in 01:27:23.210 --> 01:27:25.409 my opinion to have a conversation with me. Like 01:27:25.409 --> 01:27:29.329 they just didn't understand. What I had personally 01:27:29.329 --> 01:27:31.449 gone through is just more of a generic therapist. 01:27:32.890 --> 01:27:35.789 It's probably just as hard for them to hear some 01:27:35.789 --> 01:27:37.930 of the stuff that I was sharing and probably 01:27:37.930 --> 01:27:40.609 didn't know or wasn't trained how to respond 01:27:40.609 --> 01:27:43.590 to some of the things that I shared. So that 01:27:43.590 --> 01:27:48.810 didn't work. The pills didn't work. The system 01:27:48.810 --> 01:27:52.130 was failing me, man. And I mentioned I ran into 01:27:52.130 --> 01:27:54.560 a friend and I... The story about I thinking 01:27:54.560 --> 01:27:56.640 he was crazy is I was at a barbecue and this 01:27:56.640 --> 01:28:02.880 guy runs up to me. And when I saw him last, he 01:28:02.880 --> 01:28:06.260 was significantly overweight from drinking. You 01:28:06.260 --> 01:28:07.800 know, when you can see when people drink, they 01:28:07.800 --> 01:28:12.020 have the red lines in their face. He just drank 01:28:12.020 --> 01:28:15.199 so much. And he had just gotten kicked out of 01:28:15.199 --> 01:28:19.300 not just SEAL Team 6, but he got put into the 01:28:19.300 --> 01:28:21.039 SEAL Teams. He got kicked out of the SEAL Teams. 01:28:21.529 --> 01:28:22.970 but not just out of the SEAL teams. He got kicked 01:28:22.970 --> 01:28:26.170 out of the Navy for drinking. And man, do we 01:28:26.170 --> 01:28:28.930 have an aggressive culture with drinking. So 01:28:28.930 --> 01:28:30.350 that tells you everything you need to know about 01:28:30.350 --> 01:28:32.970 this individual. I mean, this guy was at the 01:28:32.970 --> 01:28:35.029 peak of the peak, was on the bin Laden raid, 01:28:35.109 --> 01:28:37.369 and now he's sitting, you know, he shares his 01:28:37.369 --> 01:28:39.989 story. He was in his mom's trailer, staring at 01:28:39.989 --> 01:28:41.750 the wall with a gun, like thinking, like, how 01:28:41.750 --> 01:28:44.350 did I get here? And when I saw him last in Virginia 01:28:44.350 --> 01:28:46.489 Beach, that's what he looked like. I turned to 01:28:46.489 --> 01:28:47.770 my buddy, I was like, I don't know if we'll ever 01:28:47.770 --> 01:28:51.010 see him again. Like, he's just... I don't know 01:28:51.010 --> 01:28:53.729 what to do. Like you fast forward, I'm at this 01:28:53.729 --> 01:28:55.670 barbecue. This guy runs up to me with long blonde 01:28:55.670 --> 01:28:57.689 hair. And like, I swear to God, he had like, 01:28:57.689 --> 01:29:01.270 like these rays of light coming off of him. He 01:29:01.270 --> 01:29:04.329 was just glowing, proceeds to give me this big 01:29:04.329 --> 01:29:07.250 hug, picks me up and puts me down. And he realizes 01:29:07.250 --> 01:29:10.710 I have no idea who he is. And he's like, dude, 01:29:10.829 --> 01:29:15.050 it's cheese. I was like, oh my God, he lost 60 01:29:15.050 --> 01:29:18.960 pounds. Will Chesney? Yeah. Yeah. He lost like 01:29:18.960 --> 01:29:22.279 60 some odd pounds and was just glowing and beautiful 01:29:22.279 --> 01:29:24.140 and proceeds to tell me, I was like, dude, what 01:29:24.140 --> 01:29:26.619 the hell would you do? And he proceeds to tell 01:29:26.619 --> 01:29:28.060 me he did psychedelics. And I was like, this 01:29:28.060 --> 01:29:31.319 dude lost his freaking mind. But he planted that 01:29:31.319 --> 01:29:37.699 seed and I started looking online. This is 2017. 01:29:38.079 --> 01:29:41.520 And I was just like, what is this psychedelics? 01:29:41.520 --> 01:29:44.699 I started. To your point, war on drugs. This 01:29:44.699 --> 01:29:47.239 is your brain on drugs with the old fried egg 01:29:47.239 --> 01:29:51.399 commercial. DARE. But nevertheless, as I looked 01:29:51.399 --> 01:29:53.539 into this, I quickly realized, OK, there's some 01:29:53.539 --> 01:29:56.899 efficacy. This research is really telling a very 01:29:56.899 --> 01:30:00.819 clear story here around depression, anxiety, 01:30:01.199 --> 01:30:04.460 early stages of PTSD. But there were some articles 01:30:04.460 --> 01:30:07.880 back then. Nothing quite yet on TBI, but it was 01:30:07.880 --> 01:30:11.890 like a ray of hope at that point. Started talking 01:30:11.890 --> 01:30:13.810 to other team guys that had gone through, called 01:30:13.810 --> 01:30:15.710 Will back. He introduced me to other guys. And 01:30:15.710 --> 01:30:17.949 almost verbatim, all of them was like, I don't 01:30:17.949 --> 01:30:21.229 drink anymore. I'm happy as hell. I have a relationship 01:30:21.229 --> 01:30:25.470 with my kids. I'm like, sign me up. And proceeded 01:30:25.470 --> 01:30:29.029 to do my own Ibogaine experience down in Mexico 01:30:29.029 --> 01:30:34.689 with Martin Polanco. uh and that was with mission 01:30:34.689 --> 01:30:37.130 within and i did it with a bunch of other seals 01:30:37.130 --> 01:30:40.810 and it was one of the hardest scariest experiences 01:30:40.810 --> 01:30:42.949 of my life and everybody has a different experience 01:30:42.949 --> 01:30:46.069 i won't go into the kind of like the what i saw 01:30:46.069 --> 01:30:50.949 um but it's not what i expected right i thought 01:30:50.949 --> 01:30:54.510 to your point i think to one of your points earlier 01:30:54.510 --> 01:30:58.069 um i thought i was going to go in there and just 01:30:58.600 --> 01:31:00.859 sit there and spend time on what I did overseas, 01:31:01.000 --> 01:31:02.779 what I saw overseas. And a lot of it was like 01:31:02.779 --> 01:31:07.340 little traumas from my childhood that had compounded. 01:31:07.359 --> 01:31:10.859 I spent most of that experience, and it was a 01:31:10.859 --> 01:31:12.800 long experience, like I think it was over 12 01:31:12.800 --> 01:31:16.979 hours, just like rehashing things that I had 01:31:16.979 --> 01:31:20.699 completely pushed away, didn't even realize happened 01:31:20.699 --> 01:31:24.939 or forgot it happened or purposely hid it. And 01:31:24.939 --> 01:31:28.010 it came out. And then just like the microtraumas 01:31:28.010 --> 01:31:30.289 that I didn't even know existed. That had completely 01:31:30.289 --> 01:31:34.789 shaped my life. I got different perspective for 01:31:34.789 --> 01:31:38.350 the first time. I equate it to like just we see 01:31:38.350 --> 01:31:41.750 the world through this very slim angle. I was 01:31:41.750 --> 01:31:44.130 able to just take one degree off of that angle 01:31:44.130 --> 01:31:46.449 and just like, whoa, this is a completely different 01:31:46.449 --> 01:31:49.229 universe. And oh, by the way, I realize now why 01:31:49.229 --> 01:31:51.369 you have the beliefs you do. And I can appreciate 01:31:51.369 --> 01:31:53.130 that I've never walked a day in your shoes and 01:31:53.130 --> 01:31:57.319 I understand. Maybe my opinions, although they're 01:31:57.319 --> 01:31:59.359 different, maybe there's a blend here that we 01:31:59.359 --> 01:32:02.300 can have together. It just completely transformed 01:32:02.300 --> 01:32:05.500 who I was. But the thing that I'll share with 01:32:05.500 --> 01:32:08.520 you is when I went back home, I had created this 01:32:08.520 --> 01:32:10.319 environment with my wife that we never really 01:32:10.319 --> 01:32:12.359 had a relationship, deployments all the time, 01:32:12.539 --> 01:32:16.500 arguments all the time. It was tense. She was 01:32:16.500 --> 01:32:19.439 resentful because I was running around trying 01:32:19.439 --> 01:32:22.000 to heal myself and like, oh, by the way, what 01:32:22.000 --> 01:32:27.829 about me, right? And for two years, I came back 01:32:27.829 --> 01:32:30.930 and she was just on guard and rightfully so. 01:32:31.069 --> 01:32:33.449 I've seen this song and dance before. You get 01:32:33.449 --> 01:32:37.050 a little healing, but it's temporary. We're going 01:32:37.050 --> 01:32:41.569 to go back to the way we were. And we did start 01:32:41.569 --> 01:32:44.310 to trend back into that direction. She ended 01:32:44.310 --> 01:32:48.590 up doing her own journey. And when she came back, 01:32:48.649 --> 01:32:51.130 I tell people that's the first time in our 18 01:32:51.130 --> 01:32:54.829 years of marriage that I was... I was ever in 01:32:54.829 --> 01:32:58.289 a relationship, ever. Not just with her, but 01:32:58.289 --> 01:33:01.970 ever. And I'm proud to say, like, we don't drink. 01:33:02.670 --> 01:33:06.369 She started a foundation called The Hope, The 01:33:06.369 --> 01:33:10.409 Hope Project that helps spouses and women that 01:33:10.409 --> 01:33:13.670 have their own traumas, secondary PTSD from their 01:33:13.670 --> 01:33:15.750 spouses if they deployed, but maybe their own 01:33:15.750 --> 01:33:18.750 PTSD, childhood trauma. She's taken hundreds 01:33:18.750 --> 01:33:22.779 of spouses to Mexico now to do psilocybin. and 01:33:22.779 --> 01:33:25.420 other retreats. And, um, I mean, I'm just so 01:33:25.420 --> 01:33:28.159 proud of her and us, if I'm being honest, because 01:33:28.159 --> 01:33:30.539 we've kind of cracked some of the generational 01:33:30.539 --> 01:33:32.859 stuff that we were inevitably given to our children 01:33:32.859 --> 01:33:35.319 and they saw some shit. They saw us arguing, 01:33:35.380 --> 01:33:39.539 they heard us arguing. Um, and we're not perfect, 01:33:39.560 --> 01:33:42.039 but man, we are light years ahead of where we 01:33:42.039 --> 01:33:44.100 were. And we're, we're, you know, so proud of 01:33:44.100 --> 01:33:45.600 the example that we're setting for them now. 01:33:47.130 --> 01:33:49.529 It's funny, the book I was referring to, one 01:33:49.529 --> 01:33:51.789 of the main themes is generational trauma. And 01:33:51.789 --> 01:33:53.829 this is what I really wanted to tell the story 01:33:53.829 --> 01:33:56.550 of. It's not just our childhood, it's our parents' 01:33:56.649 --> 01:33:59.109 childhood, it's the grandparents' childhoods. 01:33:59.149 --> 01:34:02.409 And when you can look back and see these dominoes 01:34:02.409 --> 01:34:04.350 and obviously the contributing factors of all 01:34:04.350 --> 01:34:06.869 the, as you said, micro traumas, macro traumas 01:34:06.869 --> 01:34:09.689 that we have, now you can stop that domino from 01:34:09.689 --> 01:34:11.310 falling on your child. They're still, of course, 01:34:11.369 --> 01:34:12.949 they're going to have their own trauma, but you're 01:34:12.949 --> 01:34:15.210 not front -loading it with all these generations 01:34:15.210 --> 01:34:18.100 and these kind of... you know, emotional patterns 01:34:18.100 --> 01:34:20.359 and things that are already projected on them 01:34:20.359 --> 01:34:22.319 when they are young and vulnerable and unable 01:34:22.319 --> 01:34:25.899 to get away. And it's so exciting hearing about 01:34:25.899 --> 01:34:28.380 all of these different options now, you know, 01:34:28.380 --> 01:34:30.579 whether it's equine therapy and canines, whether 01:34:30.579 --> 01:34:32.979 it's, you know, Ibogaine and psilocybin or MDMA 01:34:32.979 --> 01:34:37.220 or, you know, the transcranial magnetic stimulation. 01:34:37.260 --> 01:34:39.699 I mean, there's just the toolbox is so vast. 01:34:39.859 --> 01:34:41.420 And this is one of the things that I want to, 01:34:41.420 --> 01:34:44.340 you know, put on the screen, this kind of reverse 01:34:44.340 --> 01:34:48.029 1984. you know, revolution of kindness, compassion 01:34:48.029 --> 01:34:51.409 and empathy and healing. But when people hear 01:34:51.409 --> 01:34:54.449 this and they go, wow, that was from a single 01:34:54.449 --> 01:34:56.729 journey. And again, no one said, and then that 01:34:56.729 --> 01:34:58.470 was it. And I never had to do any work and everything 01:34:58.470 --> 01:35:00.510 was great. You know, there's, there's the ongoing, 01:35:00.689 --> 01:35:03.729 you know, unpacking and breath work and, you 01:35:03.729 --> 01:35:05.829 know, abstinence from alcohol and whatever else 01:35:05.829 --> 01:35:09.250 happens. But to the same as with the brain, when 01:35:09.250 --> 01:35:11.170 we were told that when the brain cell died, that 01:35:11.170 --> 01:35:14.539 was it. And now we realize that there's neuroplasticity 01:35:14.539 --> 01:35:18.420 and epigenetics. And no, you can absolutely change 01:35:18.420 --> 01:35:20.720 your biology and help change your children's 01:35:20.720 --> 01:35:23.380 biology. So I think it's so exciting what you've 01:35:23.380 --> 01:35:26.579 just told us. Yeah, well, I appreciate that. 01:35:26.699 --> 01:35:29.560 I think your point of, you know, I'll use the 01:35:29.560 --> 01:35:33.000 word panacea. These aren't panaceas, right? They 01:35:33.000 --> 01:35:37.270 give you an opportunity. to break habits. In 01:35:37.270 --> 01:35:39.090 the science, and I think you've probably shared 01:35:39.090 --> 01:35:41.270 this in the past, is like those neurons are communicated 01:35:41.270 --> 01:35:45.050 in a certain way. And those become addictions, 01:35:45.069 --> 01:35:47.770 those become patterns. And when you do a psychedelic 01:35:47.770 --> 01:35:50.470 intervention, it scrubs the neurons and allows 01:35:50.470 --> 01:35:52.989 for you to create new patterns. Those new patterns 01:35:52.989 --> 01:35:55.470 are whatever you want to create. So you got to 01:35:55.470 --> 01:35:58.010 do the work prior and you especially got to do 01:35:58.010 --> 01:36:00.659 the work after. Prior is like, what are your 01:36:00.659 --> 01:36:02.100 intentions? What are you trying to get out of 01:36:02.100 --> 01:36:03.880 this? What are you trying to change? And afterwards 01:36:03.880 --> 01:36:06.319 is making sure you have, you know, part of what 01:36:06.319 --> 01:36:09.520 we've created at Envy is like the team, the accountability 01:36:09.520 --> 01:36:12.260 partner to make sure that you're not faltering, 01:36:12.399 --> 01:36:14.619 that makes sure you're still on track if you 01:36:14.619 --> 01:36:16.300 wanted to change something and create the new 01:36:16.300 --> 01:36:18.600 environment. And there's a window, in my opinion, 01:36:18.659 --> 01:36:20.949 and I've seen this, if you don't... set the the 01:36:20.949 --> 01:36:23.550 environment you don't prep the spouse and you 01:36:23.550 --> 01:36:26.569 know the other half of the equation it could 01:36:26.569 --> 01:36:28.609 easily go back to the way it was and i'm the 01:36:28.609 --> 01:36:30.689 prime example of that like my first intervention 01:36:30.689 --> 01:36:34.729 i mean we were close to going back to the old 01:36:34.729 --> 01:36:37.869 ways because she was counter to a resentful and 01:36:37.869 --> 01:36:40.369 it took her going off and doing her own intervention 01:36:40.369 --> 01:36:42.729 that allowed us the opportunity to heal appropriately 01:36:42.729 --> 01:36:47.000 as a unit If you were king for a day, what would 01:36:47.000 --> 01:36:50.739 you do differently as far as length of deployments? 01:36:50.739 --> 01:36:56.000 I mean, any tools whatsoever. So when a family 01:36:56.000 --> 01:36:59.039 does make the sacrifice of their loved one, you 01:36:59.039 --> 01:37:01.500 know, being deployed, going to war, that we do 01:37:01.500 --> 01:37:04.159 everything in our power as a nation to take care 01:37:04.159 --> 01:37:06.520 of that family and minimize the time that they 01:37:06.520 --> 01:37:12.380 are away. I do think deployment, you know, I 01:37:12.380 --> 01:37:16.880 felt so... So sad for the troops that had to 01:37:16.880 --> 01:37:19.140 deploy 12 -plus months. And there was a couple 01:37:19.140 --> 01:37:20.840 teammates that had to do that as well. I think 01:37:20.840 --> 01:37:25.000 that's too long. I think, I mean, it's just so 01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:28.279 straining on the family. I do think that the 01:37:28.279 --> 01:37:30.680 sweet spot is probably four to six months. Six 01:37:30.680 --> 01:37:33.720 months even gets, you know, pretty lengthy as 01:37:33.720 --> 01:37:38.630 well. You know, if I were king for a day, I would 01:37:38.630 --> 01:37:41.409 give these guys and gals access to some of the 01:37:41.409 --> 01:37:43.130 things that you mentioned, right? Like, let's 01:37:43.130 --> 01:37:45.829 bring the human performance that we have back 01:37:45.829 --> 01:37:48.210 at the commands out overseas. And oh, by the 01:37:48.210 --> 01:37:50.770 way, probably to the level that we're talking 01:37:50.770 --> 01:37:53.609 about right now, some of these etiogenics, these 01:37:53.609 --> 01:37:57.420 plant medicines can help. it's going to make 01:37:57.420 --> 01:37:59.359 you a better operator, in my opinion. It's going 01:37:59.359 --> 01:38:01.479 to make you more thoughtful, more empathetic. 01:38:01.739 --> 01:38:03.600 It's going to allow you to make better decisions. 01:38:03.859 --> 01:38:06.460 So is there an opportunity to integrate that? 01:38:06.539 --> 01:38:08.420 I don't know what it looks like, but that could 01:38:08.420 --> 01:38:10.340 be a really interesting conversation. I know 01:38:10.340 --> 01:38:12.380 they're already having it because... When they 01:38:12.380 --> 01:38:14.279 introduced this to the VA, they were talking 01:38:14.279 --> 01:38:16.060 about introducing psychedelics in the active 01:38:16.060 --> 01:38:18.760 duty space. So a couple of congressmen and senators 01:38:18.760 --> 01:38:22.340 have pushed for bills last year, one of which 01:38:22.340 --> 01:38:24.680 was a teammate of ours who committed suicide, 01:38:25.039 --> 01:38:29.819 Chief Mike Day. I was on that deployment when 01:38:29.819 --> 01:38:34.680 he – He was part of team four. I was in a different 01:38:34.680 --> 01:38:36.899 troop, but I was on that deployment when he, 01:38:36.979 --> 01:38:39.020 I don't know if you know Mike Day's story, but 01:38:39.020 --> 01:38:42.159 it was the turnover ops. So it was our last mission. 01:38:43.079 --> 01:38:47.439 And Clark Swedler was the first person in the 01:38:47.439 --> 01:38:50.479 door and there was a barricaded shooter and Clark 01:38:50.479 --> 01:38:53.739 got killed immediately. And Mike Day ended up 01:38:53.739 --> 01:38:56.340 getting shot and fell in the doorway. He got 01:38:56.340 --> 01:39:00.300 shot. 20 -some -odd times in plates, pelvic area, 01:39:00.500 --> 01:39:03.119 and fell to the ground. And since there were 01:39:03.119 --> 01:39:05.260 barricaded shooters like everybody else, the 01:39:05.260 --> 01:39:08.659 train, all the operators pulled back, and they 01:39:08.659 --> 01:39:10.779 were going to drop bombs, but Mike Day had fallen 01:39:10.779 --> 01:39:13.380 in there, so they had to try to get him out. 01:39:13.520 --> 01:39:15.939 And they were concocting their plan, and Mike 01:39:15.939 --> 01:39:18.659 Day, who, again, was shot 20 -some -odd times, 01:39:19.100 --> 01:39:24.399 they took his rifle away, but he came too. He 01:39:24.399 --> 01:39:27.060 woke up in the middle of this gunfight. The team 01:39:27.060 --> 01:39:28.720 guys are shooting in. The bad guys are shooting 01:39:28.720 --> 01:39:31.960 out. Mike Day pulls his pistol, laying on his 01:39:31.960 --> 01:39:34.140 back, and clears the room, kills everybody in 01:39:34.140 --> 01:39:37.119 there. Comes up on the radio, says, come and 01:39:37.119 --> 01:39:40.359 get me. The guys come in. It's a legendary story. 01:39:40.520 --> 01:39:42.199 They come in. They met a vacuum. He survives. 01:39:43.239 --> 01:39:45.000 Unfortunately, a few years ago, Mike Day took 01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:49.020 his life. Part of this bill that was just approved 01:39:49.020 --> 01:39:52.460 for the VA around psychedelic -assisted therapy, 01:39:52.640 --> 01:39:55.199 so the Veteran Affairs, it's called the Mike 01:39:55.199 --> 01:40:01.630 Day bill. But, man, I think about having access 01:40:01.630 --> 01:40:05.090 to some of the things. You mentioned TMS, Transcendental 01:40:05.090 --> 01:40:08.710 Stimulation. Some of those other tools while 01:40:08.710 --> 01:40:10.390 we're overseas could have been really beneficial. 01:40:11.029 --> 01:40:14.970 And then I don't know the family. You know, it 01:40:14.970 --> 01:40:16.869 would be interesting if my wife was in this room 01:40:16.869 --> 01:40:21.359 to get her perspective. I think our tribe. comes 01:40:21.359 --> 01:40:23.220 together really well and supports each other. 01:40:23.380 --> 01:40:26.439 I think the command could do a better job. I 01:40:26.439 --> 01:40:28.640 don't know how quite yet, but I think they could 01:40:28.640 --> 01:40:31.439 probably do a better job of supporting that command 01:40:31.439 --> 01:40:34.180 or even the nation. I think that was your point. 01:40:34.279 --> 01:40:36.119 They could probably do a better job of supporting 01:40:36.119 --> 01:40:39.539 those families when their spouses and their team 01:40:39.539 --> 01:40:43.520 guys are deployed overseas or veterans or active 01:40:43.520 --> 01:40:46.560 duty members are. Well, using it proactively 01:40:46.560 --> 01:40:48.979 as well is a really good idea because when I 01:40:48.979 --> 01:40:52.189 started, you know, I mean, I'm just a perpetual 01:40:52.189 --> 01:40:54.449 student in this podcast now, nine years later. 01:40:55.010 --> 01:40:57.510 But when Jake Clark from Save a Warrior really 01:40:57.510 --> 01:40:59.789 was the first one that opened my eyes to the 01:40:59.789 --> 01:41:02.930 incidence of unaddressed childhood trauma in 01:41:02.930 --> 01:41:06.210 military first responders, and funnily enough, 01:41:06.270 --> 01:41:08.569 incarcerated men and women too, we're all about 01:41:08.569 --> 01:41:12.529 the same number on the ACEs. It made me realize, 01:41:12.630 --> 01:41:16.180 well, yeah, that's a beautiful... cocktail of 01:41:16.180 --> 01:41:19.520 life experiences that forges a good seal forges 01:41:19.520 --> 01:41:23.479 a good firefighter but if it's addressed if it's 01:41:23.479 --> 01:41:26.020 processed if it's worked through so rather than 01:41:26.020 --> 01:41:28.840 like my profession doing an mmpi which was a 01:41:28.840 --> 01:41:31.939 standalone you know test psychological test that 01:41:31.939 --> 01:41:34.859 was never meant to be used singularly it's supposed 01:41:34.859 --> 01:41:37.800 to be part of a you know a gamut of tests that 01:41:37.800 --> 01:41:40.829 you do in forensic psychology And that was basically 01:41:40.829 --> 01:41:43.390 a box checking tool. Well, you know, if James 01:41:43.390 --> 01:41:46.329 goes crazy, then we tested him. So, you know, 01:41:46.329 --> 01:41:49.430 our hands are clean. Rather than looking and 01:41:49.430 --> 01:41:51.930 going, okay, you know, Johnny, James, you know, 01:41:51.949 --> 01:41:54.890 you put your hand up when 99 % of the population 01:41:54.890 --> 01:41:57.470 didn't. There's obviously some stuff that you've 01:41:57.470 --> 01:42:00.069 brought with you. So let's process that at the 01:42:00.069 --> 01:42:02.789 front door and turn that into resilience, turn 01:42:02.789 --> 01:42:04.770 it into strength, turn it into more compassion 01:42:04.770 --> 01:42:07.090 and empathy when you're, you know, downrange 01:42:07.090 --> 01:42:11.720 or, you know, responding to a call. It's beautiful. 01:42:11.840 --> 01:42:17.300 That's brilliant. Because again... We just tuck 01:42:17.300 --> 01:42:19.300 this stuff away and it's going to come out. I 01:42:19.300 --> 01:42:22.220 always equate it to like a trauma, either a childhood 01:42:22.220 --> 01:42:24.300 trauma or something we've done overseas or for 01:42:24.300 --> 01:42:26.640 you, you know, as a firefighter, you're pouring 01:42:26.640 --> 01:42:28.899 that like cup of trauma into that bucket. And 01:42:28.899 --> 01:42:30.619 maybe it doesn't feel like much initially, but 01:42:30.619 --> 01:42:33.359 at some point you get sloppy. That thing is sloshing 01:42:33.359 --> 01:42:35.979 around and it shows up. It shows up through addictions. 01:42:36.000 --> 01:42:39.779 It shows up through reactions. Like I was pretty 01:42:39.779 --> 01:42:41.960 snippy with my family and I didn't realize how 01:42:41.960 --> 01:42:44.579 aggressive I was, not just to them, but to everybody. 01:42:45.680 --> 01:42:48.720 It shows up. So being proactive and addressing 01:42:48.720 --> 01:42:50.819 some of those things, especially with the modalities 01:42:50.819 --> 01:42:53.140 and tools that we have now with the therapists 01:42:53.140 --> 01:42:55.520 and psychiatrists and psychologists that are 01:42:55.520 --> 01:42:58.060 trained specifically for folks in your world 01:42:58.060 --> 01:43:02.819 and folks in my world. Man, again, it goes back 01:43:02.819 --> 01:43:05.659 to like, hey, you want to optimize this team. 01:43:05.720 --> 01:43:07.960 You really want to be the best of the best alpha 01:43:07.960 --> 01:43:10.680 guy. Well, then. take it upon yourself to be 01:43:10.680 --> 01:43:13.279 the leader and let's start addressing some of 01:43:13.279 --> 01:43:14.840 the shit that they all have. And oh, by the way, 01:43:14.880 --> 01:43:18.800 we know you have to. Absolutely. 100%. Well, 01:43:18.859 --> 01:43:21.260 one more area before we go to some closing questions. 01:43:21.300 --> 01:43:24.140 Actually, before I do that, Will Chesney, amazing, 01:43:24.420 --> 01:43:26.560 amazing guy. I had him on the show a few years 01:43:26.560 --> 01:43:31.590 ago and then we... We did the fireside chat. 01:43:31.710 --> 01:43:34.390 That's what it's called. Ryan Parrott after 7X. 01:43:34.569 --> 01:43:36.890 And I got to interview live two World War II 01:43:36.890 --> 01:43:40.010 veterans, but Will was there then. So we got 01:43:40.010 --> 01:43:42.609 to hang out and talk some more about, this is 01:43:42.609 --> 01:43:45.229 a couple of years ago now, but yeah, I mean, 01:43:45.229 --> 01:43:47.590 the complete opposite of what you said originally, 01:43:47.789 --> 01:43:50.850 you know, now he's just lean and it looks like, 01:43:50.869 --> 01:43:54.069 you know, a Navy SEAL dog handler. So it's amazing 01:43:54.069 --> 01:43:56.350 to see that, you know, that medicine continues 01:43:56.350 --> 01:44:00.560 to work with him. It's so beautiful. I love him 01:44:00.560 --> 01:44:04.640 to death. He's just a great human being doing 01:44:04.640 --> 01:44:06.520 amazing things. I'm glad you guys have crossed 01:44:06.520 --> 01:44:08.380 paths. I'll tell him you said hi, and I'm pretty 01:44:08.380 --> 01:44:10.199 sure maybe I'll put us all on a text thread after 01:44:10.199 --> 01:44:12.640 this and just say hi to one another. Perfect. 01:44:12.720 --> 01:44:15.680 Thank you. All right. Well, one more area. Let 01:44:15.680 --> 01:44:17.500 me make sure I've got the name right. Where is 01:44:17.500 --> 01:44:20.279 it? Yeah, BrainOps. So talk to me about that, 01:44:20.359 --> 01:44:22.600 the kind of brain supplement you got coming out 01:44:22.600 --> 01:44:26.630 as well. Yeah. I got it right here actually. 01:44:26.789 --> 01:44:29.890 So Brain Ops by Envy because we're not clever 01:44:29.890 --> 01:44:35.970 with our names. But essentially the idea here 01:44:35.970 --> 01:44:40.770 was when we go to Nyko, which is a facility if 01:44:40.770 --> 01:44:43.109 you've had traumatic brain injury, they send 01:44:43.109 --> 01:44:46.430 you to Nyko. And it's similar to like Walter 01:44:46.430 --> 01:44:48.369 Reed and Walter Reed has affiliation with it. 01:44:48.550 --> 01:44:50.569 But it's all centered around any brain injury. 01:44:50.670 --> 01:44:54.460 So they do a lot of – testing, and then they 01:44:54.460 --> 01:44:57.079 give you tools that you can use. They help you 01:44:57.079 --> 01:44:59.220 understand kind of the injuries and some of the 01:44:59.220 --> 01:45:01.819 things that you can do to improve it or live 01:45:01.819 --> 01:45:03.319 with it, right? In some regards, some people 01:45:03.319 --> 01:45:06.399 have to live with it. And I mentioned, you know, 01:45:06.420 --> 01:45:08.979 a friend of ours that committed suicide. He had 01:45:08.979 --> 01:45:11.479 a lot of brain lesions, brain scarring from all 01:45:11.479 --> 01:45:15.000 that. He was a breacher. And you see a lot of 01:45:15.000 --> 01:45:17.340 that, a lot of us, you know, in our world. And 01:45:17.340 --> 01:45:20.060 I, you know, I can't even imagine being in your 01:45:20.060 --> 01:45:22.399 shoes too, or police as well. But I'll tell you, 01:45:22.500 --> 01:45:23.800 you know, I think about some of the, we talked 01:45:23.800 --> 01:45:25.699 to the FDNY and some of the things that those 01:45:25.699 --> 01:45:30.000 guys and gals are seeing, like, and then they're 01:45:30.000 --> 01:45:33.439 pulling charred bodies out, out of a house. And 01:45:33.439 --> 01:45:35.899 then, then they got to go back to the fire station. 01:45:35.920 --> 01:45:37.420 And then, oh, by the way, here's another call 01:45:37.420 --> 01:45:38.859 and you got to go right back to work. It's just 01:45:38.859 --> 01:45:43.479 like, you don't ever deal with it, man. But for 01:45:43.479 --> 01:45:46.539 that, they gave us – when we were leaving Nyko 01:45:46.539 --> 01:45:49.659 and there's another place called Marcus Institute, 01:45:49.979 --> 01:45:51.739 the Brain Institute, and we're doing research 01:45:51.739 --> 01:45:54.739 with them at Envy Mind Health right now. They 01:45:54.739 --> 01:45:57.220 give you supplements and it's nothing crazy. 01:45:57.279 --> 01:46:00.159 I mean it's all the supplements that have shown 01:46:00.159 --> 01:46:03.800 efficacy around improving. your overall uh your 01:46:03.800 --> 01:46:06.220 your brain health so you got magnesium in there 01:46:06.220 --> 01:46:08.060 you got creatine in there which there's tons 01:46:08.060 --> 01:46:10.859 of new that's resurfacing all over social media 01:46:10.859 --> 01:46:12.439 i'm pretty sure you've seen that but we've always 01:46:12.439 --> 01:46:16.119 known that it's helped tremendously um with um 01:46:16.119 --> 01:46:22.939 with um recovery of brain impacts Then theanine. 01:46:23.840 --> 01:46:26.119 We had omegas in there. We ran into a bit of 01:46:26.119 --> 01:46:27.859 an issue with omegas, so we're going to probably 01:46:27.859 --> 01:46:30.420 remove that for the next batch. Spirulina. We 01:46:30.420 --> 01:46:32.319 just took all of the stuff that Nyko was giving 01:46:32.319 --> 01:46:35.619 us, all of the 25 supplements, and we just put 01:46:35.619 --> 01:46:38.579 it all into one stick. Now every morning, you 01:46:38.579 --> 01:46:41.659 just throw this in your drink and you take this. 01:46:41.720 --> 01:46:44.100 This is what I take. It has 10 milligrams of 01:46:44.100 --> 01:46:46.560 creatine. I know the initial going rate for the 01:46:46.560 --> 01:46:49.119 last few years. Let's call it 20 years. It's 01:46:49.119 --> 01:46:50.640 been 5 milligrams. There's a lot of research 01:46:50.640 --> 01:46:53.640 that shows 10. So I think we're one of the few 01:46:53.640 --> 01:46:56.279 people that are put in 10 milligrams – or I'm 01:46:56.279 --> 01:46:59.579 sorry, 10 grams of creatine in our packet amongst 01:46:59.579 --> 01:47:01.279 all the other things that I shared with you. 01:47:01.479 --> 01:47:04.899 And you take that once a day and I measure everything. 01:47:05.920 --> 01:47:08.199 As mentioned, so you go in the NV app, I take 01:47:08.199 --> 01:47:10.460 it, and you can put, you know, you've talked 01:47:10.460 --> 01:47:12.140 about breath work. You can input breath work. 01:47:12.199 --> 01:47:13.979 You talked about talking to a therapist. We can 01:47:13.979 --> 01:47:16.899 click that. We just want to show you what works 01:47:16.899 --> 01:47:20.239 for you and what doesn't. For me, this has improved 01:47:20.239 --> 01:47:25.520 my overall sleep. No surprise there. It has magnesium 01:47:25.520 --> 01:47:28.539 in it, and magnesium helps with some of the deeper 01:47:28.539 --> 01:47:31.760 sleep. efficacy and then it also helps with uh 01:47:31.760 --> 01:47:35.199 overall my heart rate uh has decreased when i 01:47:35.199 --> 01:47:37.159 started using this so i do like little beta tests 01:47:37.159 --> 01:47:38.859 i'll use it for two months and then see change 01:47:38.859 --> 01:47:42.260 nothing but one thing. And so for the last two 01:47:42.260 --> 01:47:44.439 months, my heart rate has decreased. My heart 01:47:44.439 --> 01:47:46.439 rate variability has increased by I think like 01:47:46.439 --> 01:47:49.279 three or 4%. And then my sleep has improved pretty 01:47:49.279 --> 01:47:52.119 drastically. So we think it's a, it's a great 01:47:52.119 --> 01:47:54.319 product. It's, it's really piggybacking off of 01:47:54.319 --> 01:47:55.960 what was shared with us from our time in the 01:47:55.960 --> 01:47:58.880 military and Walter Reed and what they were prescribing 01:47:58.880 --> 01:48:03.170 us. Amazing. Yeah, I kept seeing the creatine 01:48:03.170 --> 01:48:05.489 conversation spurring up again because before, 01:48:05.590 --> 01:48:07.390 you know, it was from the bodybuilding days and 01:48:07.390 --> 01:48:10.050 you had, I'm sure, some really shitty, cheap 01:48:10.050 --> 01:48:11.670 creatine that was out there back then and you 01:48:11.670 --> 01:48:14.229 get the bloating and all that stuff. But, you 01:48:14.229 --> 01:48:17.609 know, my community, it's not so much the concussive 01:48:17.609 --> 01:48:19.270 trauma, of course, even though I was a martial 01:48:19.270 --> 01:48:21.609 artist, so I had batted a lot doing that too. 01:48:22.050 --> 01:48:24.590 But the sleep deprivation, Kirk Parsley years 01:48:24.590 --> 01:48:26.989 ago, you know, talked about that and, you know, 01:48:27.010 --> 01:48:31.229 it mirrors. the trauma itself, the demyelination 01:48:31.229 --> 01:48:34.710 of the myelin sheath. So even though this population 01:48:34.710 --> 01:48:38.149 may not have the kind of same concussive traumas 01:48:38.149 --> 01:48:42.750 or TBIs that the SWAT teams and the special operators 01:48:42.750 --> 01:48:46.670 have, we have this just unending sleep deprivation, 01:48:46.750 --> 01:48:49.930 chronic, chronic sleep deprivation. So the solutions 01:48:49.930 --> 01:48:54.000 for both are very, very similar. Yeah, no, that's 01:48:54.000 --> 01:48:57.020 a great call out. I think sleep deprivation is, 01:48:57.020 --> 01:49:01.220 and not to take it to that extreme, but there's 01:49:01.220 --> 01:49:03.619 a lot of research that shows that's one of the 01:49:03.619 --> 01:49:07.859 leading factors in suicide. Isolation is obviously 01:49:07.859 --> 01:49:10.199 the biggest, but those kind of go hand in hand. 01:49:10.319 --> 01:49:13.260 So I recognize now I've gotten to a spot through 01:49:13.260 --> 01:49:15.840 plant medicine and my own healing meditation. 01:49:16.000 --> 01:49:19.340 I meditate quite a bit. I do breath work as well 01:49:19.340 --> 01:49:22.439 when I'm in stressful situations. But I finally 01:49:22.439 --> 01:49:25.439 got into a spot where I dare to say I've matured. 01:49:25.439 --> 01:49:29.359 I'm maturing. My wife would maybe disagree with 01:49:29.359 --> 01:49:33.000 that at times. But I can see when I don't get 01:49:33.000 --> 01:49:36.340 the right sleep. I know through the data, of 01:49:36.340 --> 01:49:38.359 course, but now I can tell because of how I'm 01:49:38.359 --> 01:49:42.520 behaving. I'm snippy. I'm isolating. I don't 01:49:42.520 --> 01:49:44.460 want to do what I normally do. I start making 01:49:44.460 --> 01:49:46.960 excuses for things that I usually find enjoyment 01:49:46.960 --> 01:49:50.460 in. It's really interesting to see. So I think 01:49:50.460 --> 01:49:53.079 creatine has really shown efficacy around helping 01:49:53.079 --> 01:49:56.750 in that category as well. That's what's been 01:49:56.750 --> 01:49:59.510 so maddening when I'm trying to get these fire 01:49:59.510 --> 01:50:02.149 departments to give more rest and recovery. And 01:50:02.149 --> 01:50:04.649 the irony is the money is downstream. The money 01:50:04.649 --> 01:50:06.829 they waste with all these vacancies, so overtime 01:50:06.829 --> 01:50:09.149 and lack of retention and workman's comp claims, 01:50:09.210 --> 01:50:13.109 etc. The money is there. But when you illustrate 01:50:13.109 --> 01:50:16.590 that, sleep deprivation is used really for three 01:50:16.590 --> 01:50:19.289 things. Special operations, special forces selection, 01:50:19.590 --> 01:50:23.130 which will be just a few days. Torture and interrogation. 01:50:25.740 --> 01:50:28.680 And yet we are working our first responders that 01:50:28.680 --> 01:50:32.100 way, especially our firefighters. So that's kind 01:50:32.100 --> 01:50:34.159 of a mic drop moment. Like if that doesn't resonate, 01:50:34.279 --> 01:50:36.619 then maybe you shouldn't be in charge of a band 01:50:36.619 --> 01:50:39.439 of men and women. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you, 01:50:39.460 --> 01:50:42.000 it's been one of the greatest honors to serve 01:50:42.000 --> 01:50:47.079 like all first responders, specifically firefighters. 01:50:48.460 --> 01:50:51.420 I mean, we do law enforcement as well, EMS. But 01:50:51.420 --> 01:50:53.399 firefighters, I've really grown to love that 01:50:53.399 --> 01:50:56.920 community. I think it resonates, you know, some 01:50:56.920 --> 01:50:58.659 of the past stuff that we've done and the sleep 01:50:58.659 --> 01:51:01.739 deprivation of working vampire hours and sometimes 01:51:01.739 --> 01:51:03.539 not even getting sleep because you're out day 01:51:03.539 --> 01:51:05.439 on end and then some of the stuff that you all 01:51:05.439 --> 01:51:08.680 do. But I love the contracts that we have with 01:51:08.680 --> 01:51:12.760 firefighters. And let me share this too. One 01:51:12.760 --> 01:51:14.399 of our biggest lessons learned is you mentioned 01:51:14.399 --> 01:51:17.260 some agencies do have the funding to procure 01:51:17.260 --> 01:51:21.380 things like NV Mind Health or supplements or 01:51:21.380 --> 01:51:25.760 other third parties to help them identify how 01:51:25.760 --> 01:51:28.420 they can improve maybe sleep within the fire 01:51:28.420 --> 01:51:31.479 stations. There are some that don't. So when 01:51:31.479 --> 01:51:33.699 we started SEAL Future Foundation, that was for 01:51:33.699 --> 01:51:37.880 SEALs. That's a 501c3 specifically for SEALs, 01:51:37.880 --> 01:51:41.170 but I quickly was getting approached. by other 01:51:41.170 --> 01:51:44.310 veterans and then first responders. And I realized 01:51:44.310 --> 01:51:46.850 like, we need to turn this over. I'm going to 01:51:46.850 --> 01:51:48.930 turn this over to the younger generation SEALs. 01:51:48.930 --> 01:51:50.789 And we created another foundation specifically 01:51:50.789 --> 01:51:54.310 for first responders and veterans, all veterans. 01:51:54.470 --> 01:51:57.149 And it's called Invisible Wounds Family Foundation. 01:51:58.430 --> 01:52:01.590 And what we do is when there's an agency, like 01:52:01.590 --> 01:52:04.149 a fire station that doesn't have, like the municipality 01:52:04.149 --> 01:52:06.909 doesn't have the funds. Our foundation comes 01:52:06.909 --> 01:52:10.090 in and we raise money and we either help them 01:52:10.090 --> 01:52:14.029 with procuring NV Mine Health, which we believe 01:52:14.029 --> 01:52:16.189 to be a life -saving tool, or if they need other 01:52:16.189 --> 01:52:18.329 resources, we partner with them in their community 01:52:18.329 --> 01:52:21.170 to raise money to go out there and get the resources 01:52:21.170 --> 01:52:25.670 that they're in need of. I think about all the 01:52:25.670 --> 01:52:27.489 work that we're doing locally here in my town 01:52:27.489 --> 01:52:31.050 of Parker and I want to replicate that across 01:52:31.050 --> 01:52:33.090 the country. So that's why we stood up that foundation. 01:52:34.300 --> 01:52:36.619 That's amazing. Thank you so much for doing that 01:52:36.619 --> 01:52:38.260 because yeah, there are, I mean, especially if 01:52:38.260 --> 01:52:39.939 you've got all the volunteer firefighters too, 01:52:40.060 --> 01:52:41.779 you know, and then paid on call, which just get, 01:52:41.779 --> 01:52:43.720 you know, a stipend when they actually respond 01:52:43.720 --> 01:52:45.859 the rest of the time, their mechanics or, you 01:52:45.859 --> 01:52:47.659 know, whatever their other profession is. So 01:52:47.659 --> 01:52:51.399 definitely needed. Well, I want to throw a few 01:52:51.399 --> 01:52:53.439 questions, closing questions at you before I 01:52:53.439 --> 01:52:56.329 let you go. That's okay. Absolutely. All right. 01:52:56.369 --> 01:52:58.550 The first one I love to ask, is there a book 01:52:58.550 --> 01:53:00.930 or other books that you love to recommend? It 01:53:00.930 --> 01:53:03.470 can be related to our conversation today or completely 01:53:03.470 --> 01:53:08.949 unrelated. Ram Dass. Yeah. So Ram Dass was a 01:53:08.949 --> 01:53:15.149 Harvard professor. And this really helps me. 01:53:16.710 --> 01:53:20.130 With just reframing my view on this world. So 01:53:20.130 --> 01:53:22.609 it talks about embracing aging. As I've gotten 01:53:22.609 --> 01:53:26.510 older, I know we're still in our prime, but we 01:53:26.510 --> 01:53:29.109 are getting older. I just ran an ultramarathon 01:53:29.109 --> 01:53:31.590 last week and normally I'd be healed by now, 01:53:31.649 --> 01:53:35.880 but everything still hurts. But just embracing 01:53:35.880 --> 01:53:38.779 that change, being comfortable with the fact 01:53:38.779 --> 01:53:41.380 that we all are going to pass at some point and 01:53:41.380 --> 01:53:44.319 that's OK. How do we get right with that personally 01:53:44.319 --> 01:53:46.460 but getting our family rights? But Ram Dass was 01:53:46.460 --> 01:53:49.060 one of the Harvard professors that got in trouble 01:53:49.060 --> 01:53:51.079 with the psychedelic movement in the probably 01:53:51.079 --> 01:53:54.880 70s at the time. So I've taken keen interest 01:53:54.880 --> 01:53:58.800 in that. And then Viktor Frankl is another tremendous 01:53:58.800 --> 01:54:05.689 – that story is just – I mean … I don't know. 01:54:06.149 --> 01:54:11.590 I talk about just being passionate for life. 01:54:11.789 --> 01:54:14.050 And, you know, he was in Auschwitz and shares 01:54:14.050 --> 01:54:16.850 a story he knew immediately when somebody was 01:54:16.850 --> 01:54:20.270 going to pass at the concentration camps because 01:54:20.270 --> 01:54:23.729 they would go from being somebody that would 01:54:23.729 --> 01:54:28.210 be, you know, conversing, being a part of, unfortunately, 01:54:28.470 --> 01:54:30.689 a part of the situation, but being a part of 01:54:30.689 --> 01:54:33.569 that community, sharing stories, being hopeful. 01:54:35.009 --> 01:54:38.350 to instantaneously just going quiet. And within 01:54:38.350 --> 01:54:41.970 hours, people would perspire and they would pass 01:54:41.970 --> 01:54:46.970 over. And I think in the space that we're spending 01:54:46.970 --> 01:54:49.010 a lot of time in, the mental health space, suicide 01:54:49.010 --> 01:54:52.270 ideation space, I share that book with a lot 01:54:52.270 --> 01:54:55.390 of folks to read because it just helps them become 01:54:55.390 --> 01:54:59.149 more aware. And then also realize like, man, 01:54:59.210 --> 01:55:01.369 yes, you may feel like you're in a challenging 01:55:01.369 --> 01:55:05.319 time right now. But let's put things into perspective, 01:55:05.500 --> 01:55:08.979 right? Like, you know, we'll figure out the situation 01:55:08.979 --> 01:55:12.079 you're in. You're not in a concentration camp 01:55:12.079 --> 01:55:15.380 in Auschwitz right now. So not to dismiss what 01:55:15.380 --> 01:55:17.359 you're going through, like we're empathetic, 01:55:17.380 --> 01:55:20.760 but maybe if we can reframe some of the challenges 01:55:20.760 --> 01:55:23.760 that we perceive we're going through, it'll help 01:55:23.760 --> 01:55:26.750 us deal with them a little bit better. Absolutely. 01:55:26.890 --> 01:55:29.270 Yeah, man -social meaning I've got on my shelf 01:55:29.270 --> 01:55:32.789 here as well. And then Dr. Edith Eger I've had 01:55:32.789 --> 01:55:36.430 on. She's written Gift and The Choice. But she 01:55:36.430 --> 01:55:38.989 was an Auschwitz survivor. She was forced to 01:55:38.989 --> 01:55:43.289 dance for Dr. Mengele. Just, I mean, amazing. 01:55:43.369 --> 01:55:45.930 And she became a psychologist. And all her posts, 01:55:45.970 --> 01:55:48.850 even to this day, are just about kindness, compassion, 01:55:49.130 --> 01:55:51.500 community. Isn't that amazing? These are the 01:55:51.500 --> 01:55:52.899 voices we should be listening, which circles 01:55:52.899 --> 01:55:54.460 around to the beginning of our conversation. 01:55:54.720 --> 01:55:57.479 You know, these are not only cautionary tales, 01:55:57.560 --> 01:55:59.619 but we still get to hear some of these human 01:55:59.619 --> 01:56:02.380 beings. And they're not out there preaching hate 01:56:02.380 --> 01:56:05.560 and nastiness and division. It's the opposite. 01:56:06.199 --> 01:56:11.850 Despite, right? Despite. Real trauma. Yeah. It's 01:56:11.850 --> 01:56:13.970 just like, I thank you for sharing that too. 01:56:14.050 --> 01:56:16.449 I've, I've, uh, I've read her book and I've, 01:56:16.470 --> 01:56:19.090 uh, she has a lot on, on, on online. If you haven't 01:56:19.090 --> 01:56:21.310 seen some of the, the, the, her presentations 01:56:21.310 --> 01:56:23.729 online, I highly recommend that to your audience. 01:56:24.569 --> 01:56:26.409 Yeah. I'm actually supposed to be getting a grandson 01:56:26.409 --> 01:56:30.010 on, but we were communicating via Instagram that 01:56:30.010 --> 01:56:33.750 isn't there anymore. So I've got to follow him 01:56:33.750 --> 01:56:35.810 again and reach out yet again so I can make that 01:56:35.810 --> 01:56:39.489 happen. All right. Well, what about films, television 01:56:39.489 --> 01:56:43.109 or documentaries that you love? Well, I'd be 01:56:43.109 --> 01:56:45.130 remiss if I didn't take a moment just to acknowledge 01:56:45.130 --> 01:56:49.109 some peers of mine just had a documentary released 01:56:49.109 --> 01:56:52.010 in Waves of War, and it follows as I begin. And 01:56:52.010 --> 01:56:55.609 those are dear friends of mine, Marcus and Amber. 01:56:56.390 --> 01:56:59.149 We've known them for 15 plus years. They've lived 01:56:59.149 --> 01:57:01.989 in our house a long time ago, but I would highly 01:57:01.989 --> 01:57:06.329 recommend. That's on the psychedelic front. The 01:57:06.329 --> 01:57:08.369 other one was Michael Pollan is a great book 01:57:08.369 --> 01:57:13.239 if you're new to and skeptical of. Of psychedelics, 01:57:13.239 --> 01:57:17.060 I was there as well. And I applaud you. You should 01:57:17.060 --> 01:57:20.399 have some skepticism and do your own research. 01:57:20.659 --> 01:57:22.779 Michael Pollan was a foodie. He was an author, 01:57:22.960 --> 01:57:28.020 wrote mostly on culinary experiences. But he 01:57:28.020 --> 01:57:31.720 did his own psychedelic journey and then wrote 01:57:31.720 --> 01:57:33.439 about it. He has two books and they're tremendous. 01:57:33.579 --> 01:57:35.899 But they also did a Netflix documentary. So if 01:57:35.899 --> 01:57:38.720 you prefer the Netflix version of it, by all 01:57:38.720 --> 01:57:43.000 means, that's a good one as well. Um, yeah, I'm 01:57:43.000 --> 01:57:48.359 a sucker for, um, a good movie and, um, Matt 01:57:48.359 --> 01:57:51.800 Damon and Robin Williams. Uh, Good Will Hunting 01:57:51.800 --> 01:57:53.699 is probably one of my favorite movies of all 01:57:53.699 --> 01:57:55.939 time. And it's interesting. It was always my 01:57:55.939 --> 01:57:58.300 favorite movie and it's kind of ironic, uh, unfortunate, 01:57:58.399 --> 01:58:00.739 but ironic that Robin Williams took his life. 01:58:00.819 --> 01:58:05.039 Right. So that one has, has evolved, uh, and 01:58:05.039 --> 01:58:07.600 how important it is to me. Uh, it was always, 01:58:07.619 --> 01:58:09.880 uh, a classic for me, but now it's become more 01:58:09.880 --> 01:58:14.220 of a. Cautionary tale is kind of like how you 01:58:14.220 --> 01:58:15.720 described it earlier. It's like it could hit 01:58:15.720 --> 01:58:18.420 people that, and we've seen it, hit people that 01:58:18.420 --> 01:58:21.359 we always say, I would have never thought. I 01:58:21.359 --> 01:58:23.819 would have never thought. And a lot of people 01:58:23.819 --> 01:58:28.100 in this community said that. Absolutely. Well, 01:58:28.180 --> 01:58:31.359 speaking of amazing people, is there a person 01:58:31.359 --> 01:58:33.819 that you recommend to come on this podcast as 01:58:33.819 --> 01:58:36.520 a guest to speak to the first responders, military, 01:58:36.640 --> 01:58:40.050 and associated professions of the world? What 01:58:40.050 --> 01:58:43.130 could be interesting is – well, I'm just going 01:58:43.130 --> 01:58:45.810 to say it. I think my wife could be really interesting. 01:58:46.350 --> 01:58:49.729 It would be really fascinating to see this version 01:58:49.729 --> 01:58:53.890 and her version, but then also to address what 01:58:53.890 --> 01:58:57.880 we believe to be just – an oversight on our community 01:58:57.880 --> 01:59:01.039 and our example that I shared with you of us 01:59:01.039 --> 01:59:04.539 being me receiving all the support, all the resources 01:59:04.539 --> 01:59:07.779 dedicated to the firefighter, to the police officer, 01:59:07.859 --> 01:59:13.119 to the EMS operator, to the veteran. But. What 01:59:13.119 --> 01:59:15.659 about the family member? What about the secondary 01:59:15.659 --> 01:59:18.279 trauma? What about the impact it had on their 01:59:18.279 --> 01:59:20.119 children? Why aren't there resources out there 01:59:20.119 --> 01:59:22.899 for that? So I think it could be tremendous to 01:59:22.899 --> 01:59:25.520 hear that side of the equation and to educate 01:59:25.520 --> 01:59:29.899 your audience on how their family members can 01:59:29.899 --> 01:59:32.359 receive resources from organizations like hers. 01:59:33.239 --> 01:59:36.380 So yeah, I'll end it there. I think that's probably 01:59:36.380 --> 01:59:39.500 the person I would recommend. Brilliant. Well, 01:59:39.600 --> 01:59:41.600 let's make it happen. We'll do it. I'd love to 01:59:41.600 --> 01:59:44.579 get her on. awesome all right well then the very 01:59:44.579 --> 01:59:46.279 last question before we make sure everyone knows 01:59:46.279 --> 01:59:49.039 where to find you and of course envy what do 01:59:49.039 --> 01:59:54.180 you do to decompress i wish i could uh show you 01:59:54.180 --> 01:59:57.859 i got a sauna right there i got an ice bath right 01:59:57.859 --> 01:59:59.939 there i have a gym right here you can't see it 01:59:59.939 --> 02:00:03.420 but that that's a big part of my life i also 02:00:03.420 --> 02:00:06.760 have uh and i don't know if it's healthy or not 02:00:06.760 --> 02:00:11.359 but i have this uh We do an annual ultramarathon 02:00:11.359 --> 02:00:15.300 for Veterans Day with my peers. So three years 02:00:15.300 --> 02:00:17.340 ago, we did the first one for the Invisible Wounds 02:00:17.340 --> 02:00:19.340 Family Foundation. We raised a few hundred thousand 02:00:19.340 --> 02:00:22.260 dollars. We jumped out of helicopters, swam 10 02:00:22.260 --> 02:00:24.920 miles, and then ran 200 miles, ran and walked, 02:00:24.920 --> 02:00:26.939 if we're being honest. Towards the end, we were 02:00:26.939 --> 02:00:31.520 hobbling, to be even more honest, with our body 02:00:31.520 --> 02:00:34.800 armor. Last year in Scottsdale, we did a 50 -mile 02:00:34.800 --> 02:00:37.520 ruck with 50 pounds on our back, and that was... 02:00:37.930 --> 02:00:41.409 by far the worst, uh, ultra that we've done this 02:00:41.409 --> 02:00:44.489 year. We did 24 hours straight and we did it 02:00:44.489 --> 02:00:46.930 in San Antonio, Texas around the Alamo. And, 02:00:47.090 --> 02:00:52.289 um, I do running when I am actually training 02:00:52.289 --> 02:00:54.550 for it. And I've crossed the first month and 02:00:54.550 --> 02:00:58.850 a half of like, just hating running, like right 02:00:58.850 --> 02:01:02.310 around week six, if I'm consistent, it becomes 02:01:02.310 --> 02:01:10.949 a very, uh, powerful. uh tool that i use to decompress 02:01:10.949 --> 02:01:15.010 it it really it i solve all my problems on my 02:01:15.010 --> 02:01:17.470 training runs i sit there i'm in my head the 02:01:17.470 --> 02:01:19.149 next thing you know i'm done with like a 10 mile 02:01:19.149 --> 02:01:22.850 run 15 mile run and i've already sorted out a 02:01:22.850 --> 02:01:25.090 lot of the the thoughts that race through my 02:01:25.090 --> 02:01:27.109 head so running has become a great tool for me 02:01:27.109 --> 02:01:30.449 as well and then uh hiking with my wife uh spending 02:01:30.449 --> 02:01:32.670 time with my kids are some of the other things 02:01:32.670 --> 02:01:35.380 i've become more thoughtful about and more intentional 02:01:35.380 --> 02:01:37.760 with. And that's become very helpful as well. 02:01:38.899 --> 02:01:41.380 Brilliant. Well, for people listening then, let's 02:01:41.380 --> 02:01:43.140 start with Envy. Where are the best places to 02:01:43.140 --> 02:01:45.659 find that online, learn more about it, reach 02:01:45.659 --> 02:01:48.819 out to you if someone's interested? Yep. So what 02:01:48.819 --> 02:01:50.720 I would say is our, I don't know when this is 02:01:50.720 --> 02:01:54.579 going to go live, but in about on the 22nd, the 02:01:54.579 --> 02:01:56.319 new version of the app comes out. So you can 02:01:56.319 --> 02:01:59.100 go to the app store. It's Envy, I -N -V -I, which 02:01:59.100 --> 02:02:02.060 stands for Invisible Visible. It's NVMindHealth. 02:02:02.260 --> 02:02:06.279 Or if you want to go on the website, it's invimh 02:02:06.279 --> 02:02:11.300 .com. So you can go there, check out the website 02:02:11.300 --> 02:02:13.899 there, and you can learn more about what we're 02:02:13.899 --> 02:02:16.199 doing, the research that we've done, who we've 02:02:16.199 --> 02:02:19.140 impacted, et cetera. Brilliant. And then what 02:02:19.140 --> 02:02:20.699 about you personally, if they want to reach out? 02:02:21.399 --> 02:02:27.829 Yep. JDBMore. So that's on Instagram. And just 02:02:27.829 --> 02:02:31.909 reach out to me. I'd be happy to kind of share, 02:02:31.930 --> 02:02:36.149 support, educate. I would actually love for people 02:02:36.149 --> 02:02:38.090 to reach out. If you're interested in your question, 02:02:38.149 --> 02:02:39.550 it's like, hey, should I reach out? Please do. 02:02:41.170 --> 02:02:42.970 Fantastic. Well, Johnny, I want to thank you 02:02:42.970 --> 02:02:45.109 so much. It's been such an interesting conversation. 02:02:45.390 --> 02:02:48.090 I really feel like envy itself is going to make 02:02:48.090 --> 02:02:51.689 a huge difference. This AI, I mean, there's obviously 02:02:51.689 --> 02:02:53.930 a lot of negatives to it. You know, chat GBT, 02:02:54.029 --> 02:02:56.670 for example, seemingly encouraging young people 02:02:56.670 --> 02:02:58.189 to take their own lives is definitely something 02:02:58.189 --> 02:03:00.569 that we need to address. But on the flip side, 02:03:00.729 --> 02:03:03.930 the autonomy this has given people for mental 02:03:03.930 --> 02:03:06.470 health, for physical health is incredibly exciting. 02:03:06.630 --> 02:03:09.470 And, you know, what you've done there is amazing. 02:03:09.710 --> 02:03:12.050 But also then, you know, your courageous vulnerability 02:03:12.050 --> 02:03:15.170 as far as your storytelling. The plant medicine 02:03:15.170 --> 02:03:17.970 conversation has been incredible. So I want to 02:03:17.970 --> 02:03:19.829 thank you so much for being so generous with 02:03:19.829 --> 02:03:21.449 your time and coming on the Behind the Shield 02:03:21.449 --> 02:03:24.210 podcast today. Thank you so much. Appreciate 02:03:24.210 --> 02:03:26.329 you having me. And thanks for what you do too, 02:03:26.390 --> 02:03:28.270 James. I really appreciate all the service that 02:03:28.270 --> 02:03:30.390 you've done and you continue to do with this 02:03:30.390 --> 02:03:30.729 platform.