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the Behind the Shield podcast with the CEO and
founder, Francisco Morales. Welcome to episode
591 of Behind the Shield podcast. As always,
my name is James Gearing, and this week it is
my absolute honor to welcome on the show stunt
performer and John Cena's stunt double, Spencer
Thomas. So we discuss a host of topics from his
journey through football. how he found himself
LA pursuing acting, his journey into stunts,
physical and mental health within the stunt performer
world, and so much more. Before we get to this
incredible conversation, as I say every week,
please just take a moment, go to whichever app
you listen to this on, subscribe to the show.
Leave feedback and leave a rating. Every single
five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast,
making it easier for others to find. And this
is a free library of almost 600 episodes now.
So all I ask in return is that you help share
these incredible men and women's stories so I
can get them to every single person who needs
to hear them. So with that being said, I introduce
to you Spencer Thomas. Enjoy. Well, Spencer,
I want to say firstly, thank you so much for
connecting with me online. And secondly, for
coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.
Absolutely, man. Thank you for having me. So
I know it's an unusual answer to my first question.
Where on planet Earth are we finding you today?
Today, we're in Colombia. We've been here for
three months now. We're filming an action movie,
action comedy with John Cena and Alison Brie.
And it's kind of a military. type uh military
type deal john cena's retired military uh ends
up getting called back to action for a freelance
job and and uh for an escort job it's supposed
to be an easy kind of deal and it takes a turn
and uh yeah time of action ensues Beautiful.
Well, I know you're not originally from Colombia,
so I'd love to start at the very beginning of
your timeline. So tell me where you were born
and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic.
How many siblings and what did your parents do?
So I was born in Modesto, California. And, you
know, shortly after that, we moved to Sacramento,
Roseville, Rockland area. So I call that home.
I call Rockland home. My parents owned gyms,
Gold's Gym franchises. So growing up, we bought
another franchise and I grew up working front
desk in Juice Bar and eventually got into personal
training. And, you know, my older brother did
sales. So he closed the deals on the members
and he'd send them my way and we'd just work
as a team. And, you know, during that whole time
we were, you know, playing football, we were
heavily involved in sports. So I have two brothers
and a little sister. both my brothers, I was
fortunate enough to play with both of them through
high school and a little bit in college. And
then my sister, you know, she just did like,
you know, cheerleading and, and, you know, all
that good stuff, tennis, all that. So we, uh,
very heavily sports based family, um, big on
being active, um, grew up, you know, wakeboarding
and water skiing and all that stuff. So, um,
yeah, that's kind of, kind of our background.
When you think of Gold's Gym, obviously, you
tend to think of the bodybuilding world. But
one of your brothers ended up becoming a firefighter.
You obviously became a stunt performer. What
did your kind of training look like the whole
time? You're doing all these different sports
as well. Did you kind of get pulled down the
bodybuilding route or was there more of a functional
element to your training? You know, we, as a
football player, you're constantly, you know,
lifting, you know. max weight as heavy as you
can and it does translate pretty well over to
the bodybuilding world and working at a gym you
know we have guys come in like luther regno and
you know we did have arnold coming at one point
do like a photo shoot or whatever and you know
seeing these guys these massive guys it's just
like you know they're like these great gods and
looking them as a kid i'm like damn i want to
be like that you know i'd love to be like that
but you know i And I always trained to look that
way. I just never got into bodybuilding. I had
a lot of friends that did bodybuilding and I
heard all the dark sides to it and all the egos
that go into it. And I just kind of always steer
clear of it. And I, you know, in the back of
my head, I was like, yeah, you know, it'd be
really cool to do a show, but I just never really
took that next step to commit to it. So I just
focused strictly on football through high school
and college. And, you know. The workouts just
kind of shaped me and how I look. And it ended
up being a blessing, you know, down the road
after once I met John and, you know, kind of
having similar body types. And of course, when
I met him, you know, he was 250 and I was 230.
So I had a bit of a gap to fill. But it ended
up, you know, over the past couple of years and
about working out, he's been dropping weight.
I've been kind of just maintaining and we've
met in the middle now. We're both 235. So that's
a pretty good story. I met John Cena and he was
too heavy. So I told him you're going to have
to come down on my weight. Yeah, I think he kind
of realized like after wrestling, you know, you
know, you're larger than life when you're in
the octagon and you have all or the ring and
you have all these people like, you know, live
watching you. But once you get on the camera,
your body, you just look so massive on camera,
you know, and I think he's decided that, you
know, leaner is better and, you know. He started
to, you know, we both started stretching more
and kind of doing more cardio and dropping weight
just to kind of have that leaner physique instead
of being this bulky, you know, kind of monster
look. So I prefer to be bigger, but, you know,
John wants to drop weight, we're dropping weight.
Well, one thing that's a common denominator when
it comes to the athletes and a lot of the coaches
that come on the show, when you have someone
who, just played a single sport and you see this
especially as a coach you know and you get the
travel ball and i talk about this a lot but there
definitely seems to be an accepted kind of lens
that that will set a young athlete up for failure
down the road you did all these different sports
football you know you were you were weight training
you were um wakeboarding were you pretty resilient
did that serve you well doing so many different
sports as you became a kind of high school and
collegiate athlete Oh, for sure. You know, just
kind of being able to be versatile. And, you
know, I think every sport kind of teaches you
a little bit something different about yourself
and about your body and how you move and how
you react to certain situations. And, you know,
wakeboarding is just balance and, you know, core
strength. And, you know, training is playing
football is, you know, working as a team and,
you know, strength building. um kind of trying
to have that hive mind and all work together
and think the same and um work towards a goal
um so teamwork was was a huge thing that i learned
um which translated really well over you know
to the stunt world and then of course weight
training is just you know training your body
and your mind to push through the uncomfortable
and you know continue to to grow I played baseball
as well a little bit, you know, growing up and
I also fought some Muay Thai. So just all those
things kind of together. Once I got into stunt
career, it was just like, holy shit, like I've
kind of been doing this my whole life, you know,
adapting and learning new skills. So why not,
you know, make it, make a living out of it. Well,
that is the interesting thing. When I grew up
in England, I always wanted, I dreamt of being
a stunt man, but when you're a British dream
of being a stunt man is, almost unobtainable
because there was there's a stunt i forget what
it's called now um but i still have the book
yes and to be on that it was an insane amount
of prereqs you had to be level this gymnast you
had to be a high diver you had to be you know
a black belt in this this and this and it was
i mean you know you'd literally have to start
in school and you'd be 50 by the time you were
done with it so it kind of wrote it off but then
when you come to the u .s At the higher level,
you know, the guys who are the fallers and the
fire divers are, you know, amazing Olympic level
high divers and gymnasts. And so you find that
really, if you... if you're a multi -sport athlete,
it serves you well. And then if you have that
one specialty, ultimately, and I was martial
arts and swords was my thing. Um, yeah, that,
that will serve you well as a stunt performer.
And obviously the, you know, the, the higher
you go, I mean, some of the gymnastics now in
the martial arts is insane, but, but yeah, so
it's not so much about you have to be good at
everything. You know, if you, if you race motocross
for a living, there's a good chance that you
might end up on a motorbike movie, for example.
A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, And I know guys
that just specialize in, you know, driving or
just specialize in motorcycles or, or high diving,
you know, um, and they have, are having killer
careers. You know, you don't have to be the guy
that does everything. Um, you know, if you just
want to specialize totally fine. I know guys
that just skydive, they do skydiving scenes and
they make stupid amounts of money, you know,
on shoots. So it's like, you know, there's, if
you're an athlete and you want to be a stunt
man, like, or a stunt woman, like there's, there's
a place for you, you know? Absolutely. Well,
when you were school age, what were you dreaming
of becoming professionally? My goal was to go
to the NFL. That's what I wanted to do. All I
wanted was to play ball on the big arenas on
Sundays. And that was my drive. And I think that
growing up, I didn't really have a good grasp
of all the things that I needed to do to accomplish
that goal. I just knew I was going to play football
and I was going to train hard. I didn't think
about the film aspect. I needed to have film.
I needed to send this stuff out to coaches. I
needed to make people aware that I existed. I
just played. And then in hindsight, we get to
my senior year and I'm like, shit, I don't have
any of my film from the last three years. I transferred
schools and the coaches don't know where I went.
You know, I have no contact with them. So that
was kind of a big aha moment. Like, oh, I kind
of fucked that up. So I think, you know, just
really, you know, kind of documenting my journey
playing football should have been a little bit
more recognized for me. But I just, I just, it
was over my head. All I was concerned about was
playing ball. It's funny because I had the same
experience recently. Someone was like, oh, we're
going to be putting out this new show. Can you
send us your showreel? And I was like, shit,
I just realized I did all these stunt shows.
Maybe I have a picture of me holding a sword
or a police helmet, but that's it. I have nothing.
Zero of like two decades worth of stunt shows.
Yeah. And you don't want to be that guy on set
that's like, hey, take a picture of me. Well,
that's just it. Like you said, when you're in
the moment, you're actually doing it. So the
last thing is, and then, you know, sadly now
we have the opposite where people film themselves
doing everything. But yeah, I hated that. I'm
in the same boat. So how did that translate then?
You know, you were playing at a certain level.
You weren't getting yourself out there. Did you
just kind of find yourself at the end of the
roads when it came to the professional route?
So, you know, I had my my a bunch of my own mistakes.
You know, I wasn't going to class and, you know,
getting the grades that I should have gotten,
which in hindsight is very important if you want
to play at the next level. I wasn't, you know,
I get in fights on the field, you know, just
doing stupid shit outside of outside of football,
going to parties and getting in trouble. And
what ultimately, you know, and I was a good player,
you know, I was playing. First string linebacker
and second string, you know, I'm sorry. First
string fullback, second string middle linebacker.
And so I was playing both ways in college. And,
you know, my coaches didn't really like me too
much for some reason. But, oh, my dad would come
to practice and watch the practices. So my coaches
felt, I don't know, some kind of. hatred towards
me for that. So they were like trying to embarrass
me in front of my dad when he'd come to practice.
I actually heard that just a couple weeks ago
from one of my coaches who contacted me. He was
like, you know, Coach Eaton used to try and embarrass
you in front of your dad because he didn't like
that he'd come to practice. Holy shit. And this
is the same coach. I told him, you know, I'm
trying to go pro. And he goes, dude, you're a
six foot white guy. He goes, you ain't going
anywhere. This guy sounds like a real visionary.
He's a 5 '8". Mexican dude is the meanest motherfucker
you'll ever meet. So, um, so yeah, so we, uh,
you know, my whole goal was to prove that full
wrong and, you know, just work my ass off. And,
um, eventually I, uh, we were on a, on the field
one day and, and, uh, it's game day and he's
not putting me in, I'm standing on the sidelines,
you know, getting amped up or, you know, the
other team's already destroyed our locker room,
pissed on the floors, talking shit to our coaches
on the way out. And this middle linebacker, he's
wearing the same number as me. He's number 58.
I'm standing on the sidelines waiting, you know,
to go in. Our quarterback rolls out. We're on
offense. Quarterback rolls out straight to me.
He steps out of bounds right in front of me.
And the linebacker just destroys him. Like, way
late hit, right into my knees. So, boom, he hits
me, takes out my knees. Linebacker gets up, spits
on our quarterback. And I just, I gave him a
good uppercut. And his helmet goes flying, you
know, of course. All the flags come flying out.
My team tries to grab me and hide me. And that
was it, man. I got ejected for like four games.
And my coach wanted to make an example out of
me. So he gave me another game. So I was ejected
for five games my junior year of college. And
I was just like, dude, man, you know, my goal
was to go somewhere else after this. And it doesn't
look like it's going to happen, you know. And
so I went and told my girlfriend at the time.
that I was going to play another year at Sierra
at my college. And she's like, no, I'm not doing
it. She's like, you know, you either get a real
job or you, you know, or I'm out, you know? So
I went to my coach and I said, Hey man, I, you
know, I got, I got to take the rest of the season
off. I'm going to go find a job and I'll try
and come back next year. And he's like, better
luck next time, man. And that was it. He was
like, have fun. And so I go back to my girlfriend.
I was like, Hey, I quit the team. She's like,
she's like, No, it's already over. We're done.
Oh my God. We met a new guy and I was just like,
fuck. So my whole world just fell apart. My,
you know, my, my career, my, my college career,
my relationship. And it was just one of those
moments I came home and I just fucking like went
to my knees on the grass and just started crying.
I was like, what the fuck do I do? You know,
how did I get myself in this situation? And my
little brother comes out, my little brother Pierce,
he's a firefighter now. And it's just like, bro,
like. You know, you'll figure something else
out. You know, don't don't freak out. So two
weeks later, I pack all my shit and I moved to
L .A. You know, from there, I ended up doing
some acting stuff and then getting into stunts.
So it just kind of was one of those things where
it's like one door closes. You've got to find
another door, you know, to walk through. So it
was one of those defining moments for me. It's
like, wow, I actually feel like I got rid of
a lot of baggage. At the time, it seemed like
the world was over, but it was actually just
a new path that I actually needed to go for.
So it just wasn't for me. Now, did you find yourself
in a dark place for a little bit, though? Because
when, and this mirrors the fire service, for
example, when someone retires out, when someone
transitions out of the military or they get hurt,
we identify as a firefighter, as a soldier. And
in your case, you identified as a future NFL
player. You lose that position. You lose the
relationship you're in. You move to one of the
least personal cities on planet Earth where you
can be desperately lonely, surrounded by billions
of people. Was there a kind of low point before
you kind of started swinging back up again? Oh,
for sure, man. It probably took me two or three
whole weeks to kind of wrap my head around things.
I got a job at a nutrition shop. So I'm serving
people protein and pre -workout. And I'm just
like, this is so depressing. You know, this is
not where I want to be right now. And, you know,
I'm probably making like $10 an hour or something.
And it was just like one of those things where
I just felt like such a loser, you know? And
I was like, hey, you know, I'm not living up
to my own expectations. And, you know, and I
hold myself at a very high standard, higher than
other people do. And I think we all do that,
you know? But it's something where you just got
to recognize, like, look, I can either sit in
this cloud and feel sorry for myself or I can
figure something else out. I was like, what else
do I have going for me? And I kind of just went
down the checklist and I was like, well, my aunt
lives in L .A., so maybe I can go stay with her
and, you know, figure things out down there,
you know. I could go be a firefighter. That was
where, you know, I was talking with my little
brother about that. And that kind of is what
sparked him to want to be a firefighter. We both
had this conversation. Let's go be firefighters
together, man. Let's go to school. Let's do it.
And he ended up getting picked up by a college
called Cabrillo in Santa Cruz. And so he was
like, dude, I got to go play for them. You know,
I got to go do this. He was still playing ball.
So I said, bro, you know, go for it. Go do it.
And so in that time, I was like, all right. I'm
moving to LA. Let's, you know, let's figure things
out out there and see what I can do. And then
we were planning to do the fire Academy together.
And I just got stuck with in stunts and I was,
I fell in love with it. So I was like, man, I
can't come back. I'm doing this. I'm going to
do it, you know? And he and I have both, I've
been a stunt man for 10 years, doubling John
for seven years now. And he's been a firefighter
for seven years. So it was kind of funny how
it correlates between us. But yeah, for me, I'm
so glad that I kind of took that leap and that
step to kind of just explore new options, something
totally new. And once you get to LA, you have
a ton of options, all different types of girls,
all different types of work that you could do.
Once I got there, it was kind of like this aha
moment, like, holy shit, there's so much more
out there. When I moved to LA, I actually got
picked up by Anaheim. But I went there because
my son's mother, I'm divorced since and remarried,
but she wanted to go over there to make it big,
quote unquote. And central casting seemed to
be the thing that got people in. Was that the
route you took initially? Central casting, yeah,
that was my place, man. I got in with central
and was doing extra work, you know, four or five
times a week. Sometimes I get little featured
roles and I'm sure it happened to you too. You
know, you're like, oh shit, I'm, you know, I'm
a featured extra today. This is huge. You know,
my rate went up 20 bucks or whatever. And you're
getting to work with these big actors. And I
think that definitely like set the groundwork
for me to, you know, learn everybody's position
on set and kind of understand how things operate
and, you know, what to do and what not to do
watching other extras. be over the top or you
know talking to directors or actors and people
that they shouldn't be you know talking to at
certain points you know and it actually was this
lady her name's brandy i wish i knew her last
name but brandy from central casting she's the
one that gave me the call to double cena for
the first time um so i did three rounds of auditions
with you know 15 other guys and ended up getting
the job to double john and you know it was a
photo double body double uh gig too to do this
movie called The Wall. And that was my first
meeting with John. I was just like, at that point,
I had been doing stunts for three years, you
know, indie stuff or student films or, you know,
day playing on TV shows. But, you know, I was
officially a stunt guy at that point. So I met
John and I was like, holy shit, man. Like, I
could double this guy if I gain weight. Like,
this could be my guy. I had friends telling me
before I met him though, that I, that I needed
to drop weight. So coming out of college, I was
245 pounds and I was, and I dropped a two 20
cause I was like, they're telling me I'm not
gonna be able to double anybody. I'm too big.
You're too big. I'm like, okay, I'll drop weight,
you know, get down to two 20 that I meet this
guy's two 50 my shit. I need to get my weight
back, you know? So yeah. Shout out to Brandy
from central casting for, you know, put me kind
of on that path and um everybody looks down on
extra work you know but i think uh i really think
that that's a good path for people to take just
to learn the industry you know from the basic
for the basic you know point yeah well i had
an interesting journey because i became a firefighter
in california so i didn't do any extra work at
all but my ex um through what i forget what the
publication was but they were looking for real
firefighters to be i forget i think it was enhanced
extra was a term they used but they wanted real
real firefighters for the world trade center
movie with nicholas cage wow so i ended up hustling
a bunch of anaheim guys and then we got there
there was long beach fire and some la guys and
It was an amazing experience because we kind
of got leveled up a little bit. We got the good
food and beverage and all that stuff. Yeah, man.
And it was bizarre because you're on this kind
of mock -up of the World Trade pre - and post
-explosion or collapse. But yeah, very, very
interesting. So I didn't get to do the central
casting myself, but I watched her do that. But
that did take me to ultimately get on that particular
set. Well, it's funny because these little doors
open and you're like, ah, it could be a thing,
it could not. But you walk through the door and
it ends up leading you to other places. So that's
pretty cool. That's a pretty cool story. So you
mentioned about doubling. Obviously, people think
of that as stunt doubling. But initially, I'm
assuming you were helping set up the shots and
kind of prepping it so the actor comes in and
does that. Is that right? Exactly. Set up for
eyeline and lighting and do some stuff for sound
guy. um you know those kind of things and then
and then there was a lot of scenes where in this
film john john gets shot early on so i was laying
in you know the dirt face down and fire ants
and full like you know military gack and it was
just like um a lot of the stuff that that he
just didn't want to do which it's always fine
with me you know 17 day shoot out in palmdale
it's like 110 degrees outside like it was a crazy
experience and um but super cool super blessed
to have done that and that's kind of what got
me started got you know me in front of john in
the first place so well you mentioned about pursuing
stunts for three years prior to that you know
my background is is pretty much all the live
stunt shows and you know a lot of people come
out of orlando and la and you know ended up in
the film and television um but before we start
recording excuse me you talked about water world
which i think is a phenomenal show so talk to
me about trying to get on there So, yeah, there
was I auditioned three times to be on Waterworld,
you know, and you get there and three years in
a row, three times I auditioned and I didn't
get it. Not once. So and every time you go to
the audition, there's probably 300 people there,
you know, all these working and stunt people.
You're looking around like, holy shit, I know
that guy. Like his resume is massive. He's going
to get this job, you know. Um, but you, you know,
you go through like their workout regimen and
then you have a fighting scene that you have
to do. And you've been acting scene, you know,
the, you know, the drill. Um, and you know, you're
having to collaborate with, with new people every
time you just kind of have to pick, you know,
people out of the, the, the audition that you
want to pair up with. And I think it was the
Mariner, the lead woman, and then the bad guy.
So you had to have, um, the three of you had
to all work together to, to, you know, do a fight
scene or a dialogue scene. and things like that.
I'm actually friends with a lot of those guys
that I did those auditions with. And none of
us got picked. None of us got the job. But it's
funny. So we do the audition and then they call
you. You'd find out three months later, oh, the
whole time they were just looking for bad guy
number two. It's like, why did you call all of
us? Why did you call all of us? They wanted a
guy that was five foot six. And then why didn't
you cut us out right at the very beginning rather
than make us do the whole thing? And then next
year it was like, oh, we wanted the female lead
or, you know, we wanted a bald guy for the bad
guy. It's just like, guys, like, just be more
specific. But it was cool because that in one
of the auditions I went in and I was freshman.
I think it was my first year. And they're talking
about, you know, what are your skills? And I
think I did some Kali stuff one time with a guy.
And I went in and I said that I could do college.
And they, you know, started asking me, well,
what, you know, what kind of sticks do you like?
What is this? You know, what is that? They started
getting very technical about it. And I was like,
ah, and they caught me in a lie, you know, and
I'm just trying to impress them with all my skills,
but they caught me in a lie. And it was just
like one of those things where it's like, dude,
you can't lie about your skills, especially in
stunts because, you know, people get hurt, you
know, or you get put on the spot and you just
look like a jackass. So that was a big moment
for me where I was just like, okay, never lying
about my skills again because, you know, it's
just not worth it, you know? So, and I thought
I was, like, going to impress these guys with
all these skills. I did some staff work and stuff
like that, but it's very basic shit. Like, I'm
a brawler, you know? That's what it comes down
to, and I'll kick you in the head, but that's
about it, so. Yeah, I think being an actual,
like, Competition martial artist, though, is
definitely a skill set because I found this even
with the show I do now. There's some very athletic,
young, you know. stunt performance good stunt
performance but when it comes to the fight scene
you can tell who knows who's really fought before
and who hasn't and it's just you know it's more
for the trained eye but i think that's definitely
a plus especially if you are the big guy you
know if you're you're a big guy who normally
plays xbox it's hard to sell that you're a scary
big guy but if you're a big guy who's also you
know trained muay thai then yeah you can definitely
sell it a little bit more Totally. Totally. And,
you know, I got mad respect for martial artists
like yourself. It's like, man, all the training
that you guys do. And, you know, I don't I don't
I guess I don't count Muay Thai as martial arts,
really. But, yeah, it's just it's just a different
a different flow, a different way that that you
guys move. And the choreography is totally different.
You know, a lot of the stuff that I that we do
is with John, you know, is big brawling, big
moves, you know. Things like that, throwing people
through walls, big haymakers. So it's not very
technical type fighting, which I kind of got
lucky with because I don't have that martial
arts background. Now with pursuing the stunt
performing world, you've got one or two routes.
If you get hired by a live stunt show, which
I was very lucky to do, the pro is you work.
And what's nice about it is you... just do the
stunts like i did the pirate dinner um adventure
which really when you look back is underpaid
and incredibly dangerous but yes you did rope
swings you did falls you did sword fights every
every kind of you know stuntman's wet dream is
all kind of compressed into that minus any vehicles
but um you know you can get stuck in it and it
was almost heartbreaking to me that when i like
i worked i did t2 the terminator 2 show in japan
orlando and la and i'd meet people that opened
the show in orlando 20 years later they're still
doing the same thing in the same room doing the
same moves so then you have the film and tv world
but what kind of turned me off and like i said
i was already a firefighter so it wasn't something
that i pursued um with any sort of vigor but
that um oh god i'm blanking on the word now hustling
so all you have to trying to get on set somehow
you got to fight find the stunt coordinator you
got you know pal up to him and i'm like that
doesn't sound like something that i would want
to do so i know that your journey was a little
different but but talk to me what what were you
being told when you were kind of outside the
stunt world of how to break into to film and
tv yeah i mean it's a lot of networking you know
it's a lot of networking i mean first you have
to have the kind of the resume to be able to
network but you have to network to have the resume
so it's almost a cash way to do so you know you
go and you do student films or you do whatever
You can, if you can get on, if you're fortunate
enough to get on live show and, you know, get
some film and get your resume up, then you can
do it that way. Or, you know, like you said,
hustling coordinators, you got to figure out
a way to sneak on set or have your buddy call
you when they're working and be like, hey, bro,
you know, coordinators here. We're going to lunch
at this time. If you could be here, here's the
location. And you just, you know. I've got to
network with your homies and figure out where
they are. And it's almost a game. We kind of
made a game out of it. I'd hustle a lot, man.
I'd sneak on a set. I was a pro at it. I'd just
walk in or I'd drive in and security would be
like, hey, what are you here for? I'm a stand
-in. Okay, come on in. You know, just bullshit.
Or you find the back lane of set. You didn't
want to trespass or do it illegally, jump the
fences and stuff because you could get arrested.
But if the security guard lets you in, man, it's
all good. Um, yeah, I hustled a lot and I gave
my resume out a lot, um, to a lot of different
coordinators and I think half of them called
me later, you know, but, and, and that's kind
of the game because they probably get hustled
all the time. Um, another way of doing it was,
uh, they would have stunt hustles and coordinators
would bring in, you know, five or six or seven
stunt coordinators. And it was just kind of like,
uh, them behind a booth and you'd wait in line
to, to give them your spiel for, you know. three
minutes and give me your resume and get out of
there. So show them your footage on your phone
or whatever you could do. And that, that world
is kind of dead now because of COVID unfortunately
has made it really hard. You know, all these
restrictions with who can be on set when, where
and the coordinators are actually starting to
get in trouble for, for these, these dumb people
coming onto sets, you know, trying to hustle
them. So I actually hustled a set one time and
the coordinator chewed me out. He's like, what
the fuck are you doing here? You know, like you're
going to get me fired. You can't be here. Oh
shit. You know? Um, but yeah, I think, um, Instagram
is now seems to be the big hustle spot and everybody
just posts all their shit, all their training,
all their stuff, which can help you, but it can
also hurt you, you know? And I'm sure you've
seen plenty of people, you know, stuff performers
on, on, you know, filming themselves or trading
stuff. And it just kind of like, Oh, maybe you
don't post that. Maybe train that a little bit
more, you know, longer before you post that,
or maybe, you know, redo that fight before you
post it, you know, those kinds of things. Cause
you know, the second it's out there, it's out
there forever, you know? Yeah. So I don't know.
Hustling is, is a huge, I think advantage, but
you gotta be able to do it right. And I think
we talked about this before we started talking,
recording was, you know, just, just having the
set etiquette, knowing, you know, when to, when
to be. um in action mode and when to just kind
of like keep your mouth shut and just kind of
be respectful and you know speak when spoken
to and you know don't interrupt the director
talk to you an actor those kind of things you
know so i think uh oh go ahead no i was gonna
say so on that topic then um you don't have to
of course you're not going to name names but
what what are some of the worst case things that
you've seen Obviously, the humility is what you
want on set. But what are some of the kind of
horror stories that you witnessed? I've watched
directors kick stuff people off set before for
just not following direction, just plain and
simple. You know, it's like, hey, walk from point
A to point B. Look up, notice the actor coming
at you and get your head cut off and die. That's
it. You know, it's all you got to do. And this
guy, I think we did like 15 takes and he would
literally. Start walking, take a drink from his
cup, make a face, throw his drink out, spit,
keep walking, get killed. And the director would
just lose his fucking mind. What are you doing?
Just walk from point A to B. I don't need acting.
Just walk from point A to B. Next take, same
thing. Drink his cup, throw his water out, spit.
This happened like, I think at least, I want
to say at least 10 times. It was one of those
things where it was just like, he's just not
getting it, you know? And the last take. he takes
his drink. He doesn't spit it out. He doesn't
throw the water out, but he gets to his mark
and he looks at the actor and he goes, Oh fuck.
And that was it. You know, the director loses
his, you want a line now? You want to throw a
line in my movie? Get off my set, get the hell
off my set. Lost it. Brought in a new guy. It
looked just like him the next day. And we just
kept going, just replaced them like that. And
I don't, I don't, you know, and now that I, once
i saw that i was like this guy just doesn't follow
direction and when i become a coordinator i'm
just not going to hire him because i know who
he is already you know um being loud on set you
know when you're in holding and just talking
talking talking all the time and you know the
ad is constantly have to tell you to be quiet
or you know take your conversation outside or
whatever it is it's just like you have to know
when to just shut your mouth. I think that's,
that's the big thing, you know, just be respectful,
shut your mouth. The movie's not about you. The
movie's about everybody else, the lead actors
that are on the poster, you know, like we're,
we're here to make something as a team, but you
can't, a lot of sound people these days like
to make it about them. So I've noticed that that's,
that's been kind of a common occurrence that
I've seen on set lately. It's just like, guys,
like, just know your, just know your place in
this ranking, you know? So. It blows my mind
sometimes, the shit I see on set. Well, it's
funny as well because I can just see it in my
mind that at that moment, even though it's a
distorted perspective, he was probably like,
if I drink my drink this way, then Steven Spielberg's
probably going to see me and be like, dude, I
love the way that guy swigs. Yeah. Let's get
him on the next production. You never know, man.
But then again, Steven Spielberg can see it and
be like, you know, this guy doesn't follow direction.
He doesn't, he's not listening, you know? And
I think that's the biggest thing, you know, I
think that's one of the biggest things for a
stunt guy is just being able to follow direction,
listen to what they're saying, whether it's your
coordinator or your director or one of the ADs,
just listen, you know, and if it's like, hey,
you know, I need you to look like you're in pain
before you, you know, jump off the sledge, like
your shoulders hurt and your knees hurt, like
before you go off the sledge. other than, you
know, the first two takes I did it, like I'm
a superhero and I'm like, like, like the Terminator,
just boom, right off the ledge. Like, no, like
you just fell off that roof and hit the floor
and then you got up and you went off the next
ledge. So you're beat up and you're like, okay.
So there is, there is an acting aspect to stunts,
you know, it's physical acting is what I like
to call it, you know? So those little things
go a long way. Absolutely. Well, bring it back
to your journey then. So you find yourself doubling
John. So walk me through how that then ultimately
transitioned into stunt doubling John. So yeah,
doubling John on the wall, 17 days out in the
desert. We finished that project and I kind of
just did my research and followed him on the
next projects that he was doing. So I knew that
he was doing commercials. So I just would submit
to... any of the what is it la casting i think
was doing breakdowns so i'd submit to those and
be like i doubled john on this and then once
i'd get another job with john i was had that
on my resume and there weren't a lot of stunt
guides in la that uh you know were are my size
so um it just seemed to work and i and i would
get job after job after job you know either commercial
work stand -in photo double or stunt doubling
for john and then A year later, Transformers
came out and John was the main bad guy. And I
got a call from 5150 and the action company.
And they said that, you know, hey, you're the
only guy in L .A. that matches John. You've doubled
him before. We'd like you to come, you know,
work on Transformers with us. And that was just
like, what? Like, OK, you know, this is happening,
you know. And so we did. I think we did five
months of that. And then. like two or three more
commercials and then we did the reshoots for
transformers um and i'm on set with john and
he's kind of like you know we're all standing
around we're about to do this big big ratchet
scene where you know four guys or there's an
explosion that goes off and four of our military
guys just get yanked back you know like 50 feet
and um john's standing on set waiting waiting
to go waiting to shoot and he looks at me and
he's like hey man he's like we've been working
together for a while now because Most of the
time, I just, you know, stand to the side and
I wait till, you know, they call me to do something
and I'm in. And then at the end of the day, I
thank him. I thank the director and I leave.
You know, so I didn't really try to build a relationship
with John at all just because I figured he didn't
have any interest in getting to know me. You
know, I was just there to do a job is the way
I saw it. And so he's like, hey, man, like, you
know, we've been working together a lot. He's
like, what's your deal? What are you trying to
do? you know what's your goals and I was like
oh I don't know you know okay Matt and he's like
well he's like fortune favors the bull he's like
you got to ask the hard questions he's like what
do you want to ask and I was like well like I
want to be your stunt double like I want to be
your guy and he's like well he's like um we have
a movie coming up with Jackie Chan and uh it'll
be shooting in China for six months and he's
like I don't know if Jackie has his own guys
but I'll keep you posted I was like okay can
can I get your phone number and send you my stuff
and and He's like, for sure. So we exchanged
numbers. And like four or five months later,
I get an email from the casting director or translator
from China, trying to negotiate a contract for
me to go out there and do this Jackie Chan movie.
And that was just like, you know, another like,
oh, my God, like this is happening. You know,
I'm going to go to China. And I took a really
shitty low rate. And, you know, I was like, fuck
it, dude. I'll do whatever I can. I'll take 20
bucks to go out and do this movie. You know,
it's an opportunity of a lifetime. And it ended
up being that, you know. And I did more stunts
on that film than I've ever done in my stunt
career. Probably some things that I wasn't even
ready for. But, fuck, we accomplished it. And
we, you know, I nailed it. We had driving sequences
and, you know, running on top of moving vehicles.
And I got strapped to the side of a semi truck.
going through a wall, you know, all kinds of
crazy shit. And, uh, we, we crushed this movie.
We did a really good job, but I, it hasn't come
out yet. Um, hopefully it comes out soon on Netflix,
but, um, yeah, man, at the end of it, the last
two weeks, me and John are sitting in the, getting
our hair done. And, um, I, I have my back to
him, but he's in the mirror. We're both looking
at each other in the mirror and he's like, Hey
man, he's like, what do you think about Canada?
I said, uh, I've never been, but sounds, it sounds
cool. And he's like, well, we're going there
next. He said, I decided to put you on my contract.
He's like, you'll be with me from now on, everywhere
I go. And I was just like, holy shit. All right,
man. And that kind of just led into this last
four years of us just doing every movie together.
And it's one of those things we've become friends
now and, you know, developed a trust and a relationship
where. You know, he's had me over to his house,
you know, calls me, tells me, hey, man, we're
gearing up for this next movie. This is going
on. Just give me the loop. And he's actually
been a really good friend to me. So it's just
it's kind of evolved into something just more
than work, you know, which is which is really
cool. It's become kind of a family. So. So you're
telling me that you can succeed as a six foot
white guy in life. That's right. That's right,
man. I'm out here to prove it. Well, I grew up
with Jackie Chan films and Bruce Lee. And, you
know, you look at some of Jackie's, I wouldn't
say the oldest ones, but after the kind of Kung
Fu based ones, you had a lot of his kind of Western
focused ones. Over and over again, Armour of
God is a perfect example. You would see the outtakes,
which in America, hilarious outtakes. Jackie
Chan's one is, here's how I almost died 12 times
filming this. So what were some of the differences
working with that Hong Kong stunt team in China
versus working with the American team? The Hong
Kong guys, man, they are relentless. They train,
you know, four hours in the morning and then
they have an hour break in the afternoon and
then another four hours in the evening. And that
is... Six days a week, you know, they have one
day of rest and they just go. And whether it's,
you know, oh, hey, we're working a half day.
Okay, cool. We're up at 4 a .m. We're training
until, you know, until this time, until we go
to set. And then we go straight to set and we
work all day. And they just, they have work ethic
like nothing I've ever seen. And they fight hard.
They're amazing at what they do. And they make
full contact every time. They want to hit you
and they want to see it on camera, you know.
and it's not something where it's like you're
getting the wind knocked out of you every take
it's you know it has to be repeatable um especially
if you're working with an actor but you are making
contact a lot of the time like it hits to the
chest so they hit you know kick to the chest
things like that kicks the body um the punches
to the face a little different we use you know
like you know camera cheats and things like that
but for the main for the most part like you're
getting thrown or you're getting you're you're
really getting thrown you're really getting punched
you know in the body so um it was definitely
uh a learning experience for me. And, you know,
I try and be so careful about not making contact
and not doing those things. And, um, but after
training with the JC stunt team, it's just like,
well, like, you know, you, I trust myself so
much more now. Um, and I learned so much from
those guys and their choreography is so rhythmic
and they just, you have to be on a tempo on a,
on a beat with, with each other. It's like a
dance almost. Um, the way that they fight. And
Jackie Chan, you know, I'm sure you've seen the
outtakes, but he's the kind of guy that will
do something incredible. You know, maybe he'll,
you know, flip a cup and land it on his hand
or his foot and then kick it at you or something
crazy like that. He'll do that take a hundred
times until he gets it. You know, he will literally
just sit there and he'll just do it over and
over and over and over again. So it's one of
those things. It's like, wow, that was fucking
incredible. There's no way you did that in one
take. And it's true. Like he, he just does it
until he gets it, you know? And, and that's the
same with a lot of these guys on the stunt team.
They're just like, okay, we're going to try something
and we'll go in and, you know, we'll do this
whole wire work gag where you're throwing somebody
and they need to land a certain way. At the same
time as an object hits them in the air or something.
And we'll just do it a hundred times until we
get it, you know? So. You said training. Are
they training as far as preparing for the stunts
or are they also doing their martial arts training
and strength and conditioning training alongside
it? No. In the morning, it's stretching and it's
boxing and it's kicking and everything that you
can imagine. Luckily for us, they put a weight
room in there, which they didn't have before.
For John and I, when we got there, we had a weight
room. We had a squat rack. We had a bench press.
These guys had never... worked out with weights
before really they're like climbers or you know
doing all these interesting you know body weight
movements but they'd never gotten under the weight
before and so it was cool experience because
i was able to kind of train a lot of these guys
in weightlifting and they were able to train
me in martial arts um and you know getting my
hips loose and stretching and you know just being
like i said more rhythmic with my fighting um
and it's just uh It was, it was cool. Like we,
we all kind of learned from each other, you know?
And I think, I think John learned a lot as well.
We, you know, before he wasn't stretching and
now he can do the splits. So, you know, yeah,
yeah. So that was pretty good. And his, his,
he used to have really, you know, a really bad
back and really, you know, bad posture. And then
after going to China and, you know, stretching
and learning these stretches, he just said he
does it every day for an hour. And he, you know,
he feels better. He walks better. You know, you
can see it, you know, in his, you can see it.
He's not feeling hunched over. He's now very
upright and all the pressure off his lower back
is gone. And, you know, I think it's, it was
a life -changing experience for both of us. Yeah.
I remember watching Sammo Hung. the jackie's
larger friend still so so agile and like dude
how does someone who clearly looks like he's
maybe ate a little bit too much still able to
do the splits and like kick someone behind them
and amazing and those guys those two guys are
just like legends in china like they there will
never be anybody like them you know and they
kind of paved the way for, for action for, for
a lot of us, for all of us. So just, just in
a different way. And, and, you know, first, first
out guys in general, you know, now I love, I
like getting hit when we fight, you know, if
it's not the head, you know, I find it so much
easier to sell it when you tend to, and you look
at the UFC, like the human body can take a lot
of punishment, you know? So sometimes it almost
gets a little too airy fairy sometimes in, in
choreography. That being said, now you've spent
months really, you know, taking and giving some
solid shots to the body was there a difficulty
transitioning to the next set when starting to
be a little heavy with your punches and getting
any any pushback from that you know i'm not too
bad because you know towards the end of the film
was the big fight with jackie chan and you know
i'm not really going to hit jackie chan there's
no freaking way so i i'd pull my punches on him
he was he was mainly dishing it out on me and
i would just throw him around you know um but
uh So I kind of just, I was able, I'm really
good at knowing my distance with my punches and
things like that. So I've never hit an actor.
I've never, you know, I think my first job, I
poked Tori Vogel in the eye. It was an ex UFC
fighter, not a guy you want to poke in the eye.
And after that, I was just like, I, you know,
I'm never doing that again, you know? So I feel
like my transition for that, I actually learned
so much on the Jackie Chan movie that the next
film that I did. was actually a kid's movie playing
the fire so there wasn't a lot of fighting but
after that we did fast and furious 9 and it was
just like i had my fighting skills had gone up
drastically from you know the movie before that
from from transformers like it drastically i
could see it in just the film the playback i
was like holy shit like i actually look like
a stunt guy now you know i don't look like just
some big lugs throwing arms around you know so
that was that was a cool um transition for me
to kind of experience i was just like fuck man
like you know and it and you have to practice
you have to train you know it doesn't come naturally
for people that aren't martial artists or people
that aren't actually fighters you know it's one
of those things that you know you got to look
violent without actually making contact you know
so Absolutely. Well, you mentioned playing with
fire. He was a firefighter in that, if I'm not
mistaken. Yeah, he was. Talk to me about the
training for that film. And also, did Pierce
have any kind of interaction with that particular
project? Yeah, so we did. It was about smokejumpers,
the firefighters that actually, you know, jump
into the forest fires and help put them out.
And it was kind of paying homage to those guys
and the guys that risked their lives and have
died. and smoke jumping accidents. And, um, but
it was funny because it was, you know, for kids.
Um, and I think, you know, they, I think we donated
a bunch of money proceeds to Cal fire. Cause
there's a ton of huge fires going on at that
point. Um, um, Pierce, you know, definitely had
some input. I, you know, uh, he'd send me all
the videos of them, you know, running with their
full gear on and what they had to do to dig in
trenches in the forest. Cause he did forest fire
for a long time. And, um, just, just kind of,
knowing how rigorous it is and how hard it is
and what their bodies go through was just like,
for me was like, man, like we really got to do
these guys justice on this film. You know, we
got to really portray it in a way that it's,
it's, you know, to show the brutality of it.
And, you know, it's kind of hard in a kid's movie,
but I think we, I think we got the job done.
And I think that it's just now kind of picking
up traction and actually making any money on,
on Hulu because. before nobody really watched
it so but um yeah man the training for that we
you know we do mountain hikes we climb stuff
with our with gear on not full gear um uh we
we do mountain trail climbs and things like that
and then some helicopter rappelling and um you
know but it was again a lot of it was studio
work so we didn't have a whole lot of outdoors
time um but we did have some really great uh,
ex firefighters come in and, you know, be able
to play extra roles and things like that. So
I feel like, uh, that movie was able to give
back quite a bit to the fire community, which
was pretty cool. Well, speaking of giving back,
and this is something I wanted to kind of highlight.
I've got, I've had a few people on here. Like
John Travolta was on here for a bit. He donated
a bunch of money to our fire service here after
doing ladder 49, um, for, I was like kind of
a decon element. They gave them, um, saunas and
that kind of thing. then josh brolin was on the
show he was in the incredible movie only the
brave which was about the prescott 19 that we
lost um and again another truly altruistic man
who was also a volunteer firefighter a lot of
people don't know um but when i see people that
happen to be famous happen to be actors but do
incredible things it's something that i am drawn
to like i'm not you know fanboying by any means
but when i see and it seems to be organically
not staged a lot of times when i see john He's
working with a military nonprofit. He's in a
children's hospital. So talk to me about the
altruism with him. Either I'm completely wrong
or he seems like a really, really good person
to me. John is one of the most humble, giving
guys that I've ever met. He's not money -driven
or money -hungry. He loves to give. He loves
kids. He loves helping people. It's pretty cool
to see he has the most wishes granted for Make
-A -Wish. I think it's like 600 wishes for children.
I've never met somebody at his level who is just
so in tune with other people's feelings and other
people's struggles. So that was kind of a really
cool experience for me. I'm a Christian. And
I found out later that John is a Christian as
well. And it's one of those things where I feel
like he and I just were kind of meant to meet,
you know, like we're meant to work together.
And I realized that throughout my career through
Hollywood over 10 years is that everybody in
a pivotal moment for me was a Christian. And
I would meet these people and then I would excel
to the next level. And I'd meet another person
and I excelled to the next level. And it just
kind of was a weird. journey for me to kind of
recognize that and the reason i bring that up
is you know our faith is just you know i believe
in giving back i believe in helping others i
believe in you know being a good person and um
and it and apparently he does too and you know
he walks the walk and he talks the talk so you
know it's really refreshing to see well are there
any stories or things that you witness of that
because again we get these little sound bites
sadly we're in a world where people will orchestrate
a moment of giving so they can put it on their
social media and get thousands of likes and shares.
But obviously there's a lot where people happen
to be filmed even though they're not setting
it up that way. But you yourself, are there any
kind of stories that resonated with you or kind
of moments that you remember clearly? Yeah. Yeah,
we were in Panama finishing Suicide Squad, the
Suicide Squad movie. And it was towards the end
of the film and he invited me out for dinner.
So we go to this little place we're having dinner
and, you know, people come up, you know, sporadically
throughout the dinner. John, can we have a picture?
And he took a picture of everybody, you know,
of course, you know, no problem. As long as they
asked, he was cool with it. So on the way out
after dinner, there's probably like 50 children
outside just waiting for John. And we exit and
it's just like a mob of children. I'm just like,
I'm there with them. And I was like, hey, man,
you know, you want me to walk you back to your
hotel? You know, are you good? And he's like,
no, dude, I'm good. And so I kind of just let
him do his thing. And I walked across the street
and I just waited and watched just to make sure
he was OK. And he literally took a picture with
every single kid signing autographs, you know,
saying hi to everybody. He spent probably a good
15, 25 minutes, you know, just. being with these
little kids, you know, from, from Panama and,
you know, they don't speak English. They don't,
but they're, they come in with their phones,
like they got jumps in his theme song going off
and, you know, they, they love him, you know,
and he just took the time to, to do that. And
he totally, you know, his hotel was maybe a block
away and he totally could have just bounced and
gone to bed. Cause it had been a long day on
set that day, but he, he, he stuck it out and
spent the time. And, you know, that's, that's
something those kids will never forget. So. I
think he has a real soft spot for the little,
the little guys, you know? Yeah. Now what about
the military collection? I know he obviously
did the film, the Marine, but again, let's see,
I forget the name of the nonprofit. I saw him
attached to quite, quite closely, but I mean,
it seems to be, there's a, you know, an allegiance
to that profession as well. Yeah. I mean, you
know, he's, he's an all American dude, you know,
he's like me where it's like, you know, America,
America first kind of thing. So I, I just, he,
he loves his troops and he's always, And I've
always seen, you know, I haven't really experienced
that firsthand. But, you know, I know that he
whenever we have ex -military, you know, guys
on set or veterans on set, he's always, you know,
thanks him for their service. Thank you for being
here. Very generous, very, you know, humble and,
you know, always kind of interested in learning
their story. So I've seen him just kind of sit
there and just just listen, you know, and a lot
of times that's that's what those guys need is
just somebody to. to listen to their story and
understand like, yo man, like I'm a person too.
And I went through some shit, you know? And he's
willing to do that. So it's, it's kind of cool
to, to have witnessed that. Yeah. Well, I appreciate
you telling the story. Cause I mean, that's,
that's the thing you get this blanket statement.
Oh, you know. celebrities or actors you know
how dare they have an opinion on this they just
need to shut up and they get tarred with the
same brush and of course there are some screaming
narcissists out there under that umbrella but
there are some incredible human beings that happen
to act or happen to be sports players or whatever
it is that do an incredible thing with their
platform and i think those people those stories
need to be told as well absolutely i agree so
with The stunt side. I know firsthand how much
it fucking hurts being a stuntman. I've seen,
you know, some of my friends get very, very badly
hurt. Luckily, they all recovered. But I got
a friend I do the show with now who the ratchet
malfunctioned and he ended up getting like plowed
through. I forget what it wasn't like a marble
pillar. Totally caped his face in. I got a guy
that I did the pirate stunt show. slipped um
coming down the mast and fell in that this high
full pit or full pit um and nailed his back on
the cement i had olivia jackson on the show who
was almost killed on resident evil i think it
was like four um so it's a very very dangerous
profession you know sometimes sadly we lose people
completely a lot of times you at least get beat
up so talk to me about injury because just like
the first responder professions your body is
your tool so firstly you have the injury itself
but you also have you know the mental health
side of being taken from the very thing that
you felt that you were needing to do and taken
from that tribe you know with the people that
you work with yeah man and i you know i've been
on set and witnessed accidents and we've had
some recent accidents and uh uh in the the most
recent past of some guys passing away like you
said um it's a very real thing and it's a very
uh It's a very high possibility that you're going
to get hurt doing what we do and even possibly
die. I've been injured before pretty bad. Dislocated
shoulders, torn labrum, torn rotator cuff, broken
ankles, things like that. It's one of those things
where it can really mess with your mind. It can
mess with your mental health and set you down
a path where it's like, you know, shit, I'm out
of work for the next six months. You know, you,
you kind of spiral and you start to think, Oh,
I got bills. I got to pay this. You know, you
know, do I have anything coming in? Like, you
know, how am I going to make money? You know,
your body is your tool. That's, and if you don't
have your body, just same with firefighting and,
you know, as police officers or military, it's,
you know, you get an injury and it could put
you out and, you know, the stress factor of,
you know, where's the paychecks coming from or
how quick is it going to be that I. till I heal
or am I going to fully heal, um, are all, all
very stressful things. Um, and you know, most
recently I, I, like I said, I tore my labor in
my rotator cuff and my shoulder and it was just
such a depressing time for me. Um, cause it was
towards the end of the peacemaker filming. Um,
and we'd done all the biggest stunts. And then
the last, you know, two weeks I get hurt cause
I just kind of got lax and didn't check my wire.
And I did a double goo trap and straight to my
shoulder. And, and it was one of those things
where I just kind of fell into this depression,
you know, and I'm trying to take painkillers
to get rid of the pain because I can't sleep.
And, and then that, you know, you know, builds
up and all of a sudden you're, you know, feeling
you have to have painkillers. And, you know,
my, you know, I'm over here relying on my girlfriend
to like, help me, you know, take my shirt off
at night or get in the bed or, you know. these,
these little things that we take for granted,
we just, you know, you start to worry, Oh no,
you know, am I asking too much of her? Am I,
you know, putting a burden on her? Am I, you
know, you know, being, you know, a pain in the
ass for everybody, you know, you don't, you don't
want to be a burden for anybody. Um, was, was
a big thing for me. Um, and I just kind of, I
think I took four weeks to kind of just really
just rest and heal. And then after that, I kind
of just had to snap out of it. And I started
working out again. I worked out, you know, I'd
work out what I could. I'd do my legs and I'd
do my left arm. And, you know, and I just started
researching, like, you know, what can we do for
this injury? Can I look into surgery? I'd ask
my buddies who have had similar surgeries, you
know, what are other options? you know, talking
to the doctors or like, you know, we're going
to do, we could do surgery. It's going to be
an eight to nine month recovery. And then all
of a sudden it's like, Holy shit. Like then I'm
out of work for another eight to nine months.
And, um, one of my buddies named Alex Kiskevich,
he doubles, uh, Ryan Reynolds. He was, he did
like all the Deadpool stuff. Um, he destroyed
his knee, his blew out his ACL, you know, PCL,
um, and everything just blew it out. And he ended
up getting stem cell. Doctors told me never run
again. He said, he said he got. got a surgery
on his knee and then he got stem cell into his
knee. And within three months he was running
again. And so I was like, Holy shit. Okay. Like
this is something like, so for me, I was like,
I'm not going to do the surgery. Um, I looked
highly into stem cell and I ended up getting
stem cell surgery. Um, and a lot of people think
that stem cell is like, you know, fetuses or
things like that. It's not, um, there's ways
to get stem cells. So for me, they, they went
into my stomach and, They pulled body fat out
of my stomach and my back and they put a machine
and they spun it for two hours and they pull
all the stem cells out of it and they put you
on an IV drip and they inject you locally. And
so I got hit in three separate spots on my shoulder.
And I was back in action in like three months.
Like no joke, I was lifting 80 pounds over my
head. So it's been, I think it's been six months
now and that helped me go back to work right
away. Um, I wasn't doing very intense stunts
or anything. I was still taking it easy, but
just the, the idea that there was an option for
me to, to get around the surgery, all of a sudden
that all that, you know, doubt and all that,
you know, cloudy fogginess for me just kind of
went away. And I was like, oh shit, like, okay,
now there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
You know, now I, I started to think positively
and I think once my mindset changed, I healed
so much faster. You know, um, and maybe that's
just placebo effect, but for me, I was like,
oh my God, like I can, I can come back from this,
you know, I'm not going to be out for the next
year. Um, and I think my mindset is kind of what
helped me, you know, just stay positive. Once
I stayed positive, I was like, okay, I'm healing.
And then I think you just got to get out of that
funk. You know, once you're, once you're injured,
you can't stay in the funk for too long. Yes.
You know, if you're hurt. take the time, rest,
relax, don't push yourself. But once you get
to that point where it's like, okay, you know,
I can still work this part of my body. I can
still work my legs. I can still, you know, advance
here or there. You know, I think that is what
kind of starts to open up that door for you to,
to, to recover. You know, my, my little brother
is going through a serious back injury right
now. He's got three slipped discs and his lower
back. they responded to a woman who had a heart
attack and they got there and she was a 300 pound
woman in the bed and they wanted to resuscitate
her, but they couldn't do it. So they had, they
couldn't do it on the bed, you know, so they
had to move it at the floor. And when they went
to lift her, he lifted her using his back. He
didn't lift with his legs. And so he threw out
three discs and now he's looking at doing back
surgery and he's kind of just been laid up for
the last three months. And it sucks to see him
at 28 years old. And I can see like, he's, you
know, he's now on painkillers and I can feel
like he's, he's a little depressed and, you know,
but he thinks that this surgery is going to really
help him just get back on. And for me, I'm like,
man, like, I hate to hear, I hate the thought
of him getting back surgery, you know, at 28.
I'm like, dude, you know, look into stem cell,
look into other options. Maybe there's, you know,
something else we can do, but he's, he's pretty
determined to have the surgery and go back to
work. So I'll tell you a story. I hurt my back.
And you talk about getting complacent and getting
hurt on something that really wasn't a big stunt.
Well, that happened to me. It wasn't the fires.
It wasn't the extrications. It was a freaking
160 -pound panic attack who I was just putting
in the back of the rescue. That particular one
didn't dump. So I had to kind of like stretch
up. I arched my back. A bunch of snapping happened.
And then all of a sudden, I was just out. So
very long story short, kind of like you, I immediately
was like, I'm not having surgery. I'm not, you
know, I'm not even taking medicine. I mean, I
took them for a couple of days, but I mean, ultimately
I was like, no, this is not going to be part
of my treatment is, you know, pharmaceuticals.
And so I started down the PT route. I started
down the chiropractic route. And when I was at
my chiropractor's office, he was playing a video
of this muscular dude doing this kind of weird,
like leaning forward thing. And he said to me,
oh, this is a foundation training. And he himself
hadn't really even explored it that much. He's
like, but it's really good. I've tried it a little
bit. I want you to do this every time before
you come see me from a chiropractic. Well, I
started doing this 12 -minute free video that
was on YouTube. And I ended up telling my PT,
hey, I want to start doing this in my PT session
because it's helping more than half the shit
that you're telling me to do. And so I ultimately
had no surgery, no painkillers, no anti -inflammatories.
um and it took five months you know but by the
end of the five months i was not only back at
work but there was a firefighter fundraiser that
we did and it was dead lifting 225 for reps so
it wasn't just like i'm not hurt anymore like
it is you know not fixed damages there it's yeah
it's strong again so after we're done recording
i'll send you the information for that to send
to him because conversely i've got two friends
that went the surgery route And the almost guarantee
about surgery is there'll be another surgery
and another surgery. And I've seen it with my
friends. So, you know, is this a magic pill for
everything? No, but there's a high, high chance
hearing all the success stories I've had because
I ended up becoming an instructor. I was so impressed.
I went back and taught my entire fire department.
So there is like this tunnel. Yes, stem cells
would obviously be another great tool, but there
are movement practices that can put the support
back around the spine. that then takes the pressure
off the nerves that then gets you back on your
feet again. Awesome. I would love to learn more
about that because just that thought of him getting
surgery, I just can't fathom it. I just don't
see it being a good thing. And like you said,
once you get one surgery, it's over and over
and over again. Yeah. Well, speaking of stunts,
Chris Hemsworth swears by it, Lance Armstrong,
Kelly Slater. So you have some pretty high performing.
you know men in this case that swear by it so
that's kind of the advocacy as well sure yeah
no that would be amazing now with the mental
health side i've never really kind of asked the
stunt world this specifically but i know through
talking to chris bell and some other people that
the wrestling side You know, we think of some
of our wrestlers passing away early as, you know,
it's a steroids and large heart. And then you
discover there's actually a mental health kind
of opiate addiction element to a lot of wrestling
because they're getting so banged up. They're
on painkillers a lot. With the stunt world, have
you noticed any trends as far as kind of, you
know, behind the curtain, in the shadows, mental
health issues in your profession? You know, not
a whole lot recently. I know a lot of the old
school guys, you know, they used to medicate
highly with, you know, cocaine and painkillers
and whatever they could do to, you know, like,
oh, my leg's broken, you know, hit this, let's
do the next, let's do another take, you know,
kind of thing. And I think that, you know, not
only has stunts become a lot more, I think, thought
out and methodical and a lot more safe than it
used to be, you know, 20 years ago. I mean, there's
still a lot of danger to it, but we think things
a lot more thoroughly through, I think. And safety
is like top priority for most productions. But,
you know, I've noticed a lot of, I guess you
could say just alcohol dependency. It's like
you're, you know, you're on location, you're
away. Um, and people just tend to just drink
and drink and drink and drink. And it's like,
it's one of those things. It's like, you know,
you can either associate yourself and, you know,
you want to be social and you want to go out
with, you know, the guys and have a good time.
But, you know, as a athlete and as a performer,
you can't, you can't. be drinking every night.
You just can't do it. You're not going to function
correctly. So a lot of the time I find myself
when I'm on location, I'm in my room most of
the time, you know, like I'll go out on a day
excursion or go do something. And yeah, maybe
I'll have, you know, a drink on the weekend,
but if I go down to the hotel lobby or the pool,
everybody's wasted all the time, you know? So
it's one of those things where it's just, you
have to, you know, kind of have a little bit
of self -control, you know, and, and I think.
in turn if you are drinking all the time it's
going to lead to that depression and it's going
to lead to that you know um just that those those
those mindset that mindset just just the bad
mindsets you know um so i haven't really noticed
anybody to with any type of dependency um i'm
sure painkillers can come into play quite a bit
and yeah you know i got viking in my bag if i
ever need it But it's not something that I'm
like, oh, I'm going to take this. You know, I
need to take it every day. No, I have it there
if I have an injury and I got to get through
the day and we got to make our day. Sure, I'll
take a Vicodin, be good to go for the day. But
then, you know, we got to assess the situation
and figure out what the injury is and take the
time to heal. On Transformers Bumblebee, I broke
my ankle, my left ankle, and I didn't get it
looked at for probably two months. Didn't do
it. Like just literally went home, took my boot
off. My ankle was the size of a, you know, of
an apple. And I was just like, man, like, do
I go to the hospital tonight? I work at 6 a .m.
the next day, you know, or do I just kind of
sleep it off and try to go back to set? That's
what I did. So I just sleep it off, try to go
back to set. And I was like, we have two weeks
left and I'm riding around, you know, as a photo
double and a Hummer for the rest of the time.
So I think I can get through this. So I do. And
for some reason, I just had a hell of a time
finding a doctor that'll see me for my ankle.
It was like three weeks out. So I just kept pushing
it off and pushing it off. And I wish that I
had taken care of that injury sooner because
I realized two years later that it disconnected
my calf from my ankle. So I now have lost like
most of my muscle mass in my left calf because
I didn't get it treated. and I didn't have anybody
look at it. And so now I would, I would most
likely will have to get surgery to reattach my
calf to my ankle. I don't even know if they can
do that, but it's one of those things where it's
like, you have to like recognize those injuries
and, and give yourself the time to heal, go see
a fucking doctor, you know, don't just, don't
just try and tough it out, you know? And that
was a huge learning experience for me. Just like
get it assessed, you know, don't, don't push
it. Don't just take the painkillers and mask
the pain. you know um so now now now i have one
big calf and one baby calf so i gotta get that
fixed at some point i just didn't know when the
hell i'm gonna do it and you were able to go
up on your toes though no my so my my left foot
i can't go up on my toes my right foot i can't
but i can still run and there's no pain that's
crazy the craziest thing i got a friend who's
uh was like a elite operator in the canadian
um the police force and mountain police and It
was just aesthetics. He retired out of there.
I mean, again, we're talking about the irony
again of little things. You know, made it out
unscathed pretty much and literally had aesthetic
surgery to balance out his calves. He's like,
you know, I've always had this one that's off
and it went horribly wrong. He got compartment
syndrome and right now he's rehabbing. But at
one point they thought they were going to have
to cut his leg off. So, yeah, I mean, that's
the sad thing is like, even when you do that,
OK, I'll just get it done. There's still that
risk with the surgery, you know, and this was,
like I said, an aesthetic procedure. But yeah,
every time we're cutting someone open, there's
always that chance. I joked about that with my
girlfriend. I was like, I'll just get an implant
match, you know, and she's like, dude, you can't
do that. Watch. So with that being said, though.
when the one good thing we have in the fire so
not the one good thing but one of the good things
if you have a good department is you'll have
a solid workman's comp if you do get her um i
know one of the things that olivia has been fighting
for the longest time is that she didn't get any
kind of you know compensation for the horrendous
thing that happened to her so what what do the
stunt performers these days have on on a regular
professional set if you get her is is there that
kind of coverage medically so every um every
production is different but yes you have So I
believe that there's a loophole. So what the
problem is, if you are hired as a loan out, so
you're using your own corporation, your own company,
I believe the insurance is now on you and you
have to pay through your loan out, which you
would have through SAG, your union. But the production
isn't liable for you. Now you have, since you
have joined as a loan out, you are a separate
entity. you are not covered. But if you join
as just an independent contractor and you're
hired underneath the production, then you have
full coverage, death, health insurance, all of
those things. So I know there was an issue, you
know, with our guy that died on Fear the Walking
Dead. And unfortunately, I can't think of his
name right now. Um, but he, you know, he had,
he, he was went on as a loan app and I don't
think that he was covered. He was covered through
his own. He was had to be covered through himself.
And so the production didn't want to cover him.
Um, and so the family has gone to bat and they're
suing and, and, you know, all those things, but
it just, it makes it so ugly for, you know, for
everybody involved, you know, um, I, I, there
are some. some really good safety parameters
and i think we have you know um death liability
up to like three million dollars on most of the
features that we're working on but it's a question
that i make sure that i ask before every project
like what is the life insurance on this what
is life insurance policy what if i use this contract
versus that contract so you know productions
can be very um sleazy at times i guess and and
you know trying to cut corners or save money
in certain ways in places that they shouldn't
be saving money they should be worried more about
the person's health um but it seems like the
the money seems to take precedence a lot in our
industry unfortunately well it's funny because
i talk about the parallels between different
professions and why i love having conversations
outside The kind of silo that is the fire service
is this parallel. You wouldn't think so. People
beat their chests about the fire service and
call them heroes. But when it comes to the money,
yeah, now we're disposable heroes. There's always
another person with a heartbeat that will just
take the place if you get hurt or die. And it's
not black and white like that, but there is an
element of the mighty dollar being more important
than the person in the uniform. it's so sad to
see man i have such a high respect for you know
you guys firefighters um you know i i say it
all the time to my little brother like dude you
got you're the real hero man like we play all
this stuff on tv and we fake it and we do all
this stuff but you guys literally like running
into burning buildings you know with no guarantee
that you're coming out you know pulling people
out saving lives like i can't i can't count on
both hands how many how many lives my little
brother And I'm sure it's the same for you. So
I got nothing but mad respect for you and your
fire buddies, your family of firefighters, men
and women. It blows my mind some of the things
that you guys do and the stories that I've heard
already. And I do think it should be something
that's like a higher paid job. Even police, same
thing. Putting your lives on the line on the
daily. So mad respect to you guys. And thank
you for your service. Yeah, I'm proud to serve
alongside, you know, amazing men and women. And
I think, yeah, they should, even not so much
the pay, they should be given the environment
for them to thrive. I mean, the pay as well.
No responder should have to take a second job
to pay his or her mortgage. But, you know, sadly,
we're working them into the ground. And if your
brother's been mandatory a lot, told he couldn't
go home at the end of the shift. But, yeah, our
work weeks definitely need to be revamped. Yeah.
Yeah. No, he's done. He's been doing a lot of
the classes, the hazmat classes. And I think
it's the water safeties and, you know, boat classes,
helicopter classes, all that stuff. So he's just
trying to get everything that he can do. And
I think he just went for his engineer course
as well. So, you know, he's just trying to stack
stack all the classes because I know you get
a pay raise. Right. For most of those classes
that you. Yeah, and it depends on department.
So, you know, some departments are amazing and
they'll support you and they'll put you through
classes, maybe even pay while you're, you know,
in the class. There's others where, and I've
worked for these, where you basically use your
own money to take a class. You have to use vacation
time to be at the class. So let's just say there's
a spectrum of support from departments. But yeah,
once you have those classes, that can get you
on the special ops team. It can get you promoted
to the next rank. Wow. So, yeah. Yeah, he's out
with SAC Metro. Okay. Yeah, I think one of my
friends, Dave Bear, works for them, if I'm not
mistaken. He was an ambulance operator when I
worked for Anaheim. Cool. Brilliant. Well, I
wanted to go to one more area and then go to
some closing questions so I can let you go. But
before we do... Another area I think that there's
kind of a bone of contention for a lot of people
is, you know, some actors come out and say they
did all my own stunts, which I know pisses off
the stunt community tremendously. But then you
see, for example, Tom Cruise flinging himself
out of an airplane or, you know, I've heard you
talk about John. You know, there's obviously
a middle ground where. some if able do a lot
of stunts but then there's the insurance side
as well so talk to me about you know your experience
with with john and and what he's able to do and
then where you kind of have to fill in from there
sure yeah i mean john is uh he has no ego about
it man it's the funniest thing and i love it
that you know we'll be on set and the director's
like so john you're gonna do this this and this
and he goes actually spencer's gonna do that
that and that you know like he has no ego about
it and it's like he knows that his his limitations
and he knows the things that he wants to do and
that he doesn't want to do and he just he literally
just stands up for himself and puts me in the
hot seat and i love it i'm like dude that's what
i'm here for you know um and uh he's a great
fighter he's great with choreography like we'll
do uh you know i was i was telling somebody the
day like you know we'll literally rehearse something
or create a fight you know over the course of
three weeks and you know come up with all these
concepts then you get it you know approved by
the director and then you teach the actors and
you know we'll have actors that come in and they
you know have to come every day and train and
train and train to learn these fights and you
know john's kind of guy and he'll come in and
he'll learn it in like 20 minutes and be like
okay see you guys on set you know we'll rehearse
it again on the day and you're like okay and
you know i'll have step coordinators look at
me like is he serious like he just wants one
training session i was like dude It's all he
needs. You know, he's, he's got it. He says he's
got it. He's got it. Cause he's a, he's the type
of person that likes to be over prepared for
everything. And if he says he's got it, I trust
him and we'll get to set that day and we'll do
a little refresh and sure enough, he's, he's
fucking got it. So it makes my job so much easier,
you know, and he doesn't, he doesn't like to,
you know, focus in on the little specific things
that my coordinators tend to be a lot more adamant
about you know oh you know when he pushes when
he throws that right hook he needs to really
throw his hips and things like that or he needs
to step with his his left foot you know um you
know whatever it is like these little critiques
and i try and throw him at john he's like nope
not doing it you know so it's like okay well
when i do the fight i'll do it you do your thing
and then we'll put it all together and it'll
look beautiful you know so but a lot of times
he'll just get on set and he'll just impress
the hell out of the director and it's like holy
shit okay You know, I didn't know he can move
like that, you know? So, but when it comes to
anything like fire or, you know, horses or explosions
or, you know, going through glass, anything dangerous
like that, I'm, I'm the first one to be like,
Hey man, like, you know, I got this, let me do
it. You know? And, and he's all for it. We work
as a team and he actually bought me a Rolex after
fast nine. And just as a thank you to be like,
yo man, like he told me, you know, it's from
him and his wife. He's like, you've kept me healthy.
You've kept me safe. he's like there's no way
we could have made these movies without you and
i'm just very thankful for you and it was just
you know one of the that was one of those moments
where i was just like you know holy shit like
you know this is like he really appreciates you
know all the things that i'm doing and all like
putting my body on the line constantly um so
it's it was really nice to feel appreciated and
just kind of to for him to see that that he sees
me you know because a lot of times when i do
my stuff he's never on set you know and he doesn't
he's not the kind of guy to watch playback so
he's not going to see what we're doing until
the movie comes out you know but um he is fully
aware that you know along with me and all the
stunt guys that we're we're literally putting
life and limb on the line for you know to make
these movies so well i think what makes him unique
as well is you know you have that kind of uh
video clip that was going around with the dude
the wrestling fan saying it's still real to me
damn it you know and there's a lot of people
say on wrestling's fake well once you become
a stunt performer you're like well actually what
wrestling really is is stunt work Incredible
stunt work, but these guys are fucking huge that
are spinning through the air and everything.
So I can see how coming from technically a stunt
background, a professional wrestling background,
that there is a much smaller gap to cross than
it would be for an actor that went through drama
school, maybe did some sword classes, but that
was about it. Yeah, yeah. And I say it all the
time. I'm like, you know, John's essentially
a stuntman himself. You know, if you look back
at his career and all the shit that he's done,
Man, I look, I watch, you know, sometimes I'll
watch like his highlight videos on YouTube just
to like look at and, you know, recognize how
he moves so that I, you know, try to move, move
more like him on set and things like that. You
know, I'll watch these, these crazy, you know,
flips and jumping off ladders and cage fights
that they do. And I'm just like, holy shit, man.
Like you really sold that punch, you know, like,
you know, gushing blood. Like, I don't know if
you go and look up John Cena versus Brock Lesnar.
it's, it's a pretty intense fight. And I, for
me, I'm like, dude, did he really hit you? Like,
I don't know how you fake these punches, you
know? And he's like, Oh, it's a, you know, it's
an old boxer move. It's it's called, I think
it's called a boxer cut where, you know, he used
the sharp edge of his elbow to slice his head.
And I was just like, damn dude, like, you know,
you guys are doing all this for the fans, you
know, for them to get that exciting entertainment.
And that's why he's one of the top selling wrestlers.
Like, cause he put it all out there. He put it
all on the line, but. You know, he has torn biceps
and torn triceps, knee surgeries. I think he
has, you know, a couple of back injuries. I think
he tore his pec, you know, so he's, he's been
through the ringer and I think that he's put
in his time and he's proved himself and he just
doesn't have an ego about it anymore. He's like,
dude, like I've done my work. Like let's make
movies. You know, this is, this isn't the real
world anymore, you know? So I love that, that
I can just. you know, go in there and perform
and do what I got to do for. So, yeah, no, it's
understandable. If you think of Gina Carano and
George St. Pierre and some of these guys that
get into films, like, why would you want to go
get punched in the head again after that? And,
you know, like you said, they're getting hurt
for our entertainment. And then you have people
saying, why don't they get hurt more? Well, fucker,
you're not the one in the cage. So, yeah, they're
like, you know, been there, done that, man. I've
already put in my time, you know? And, you know,
the thing is, the other thing that I talked about
is like, you know, if an actor, say Tom Cruise,
who does all his own stunts supposedly gets injured
and, you know, then you have 200, 300 people
on the crew that are out of work for the next
four months or however long it takes that guy
to heal. If me as the stunt guy gets injured,
you call, you know, always would be, you know,
one of my Canadian stunt guys to come in and
take my spot, you know? It sucks to say, but
we are replaceable. The lead actor, you can't
replace them. Otherwise, you stop the film. As
a stunt guy, I think I have at least three or
four buddies that I've had to call in the past
that have helped me double John when I've gotten
injured. It's one of those things where you have
to have those connections, those backup guys
that can come in and double for you if you get
hurt. Luckily for me, I've met a couple of guys
throughout the years. Like, yo, man, I messed
up on this one or I just can't be two places
at once. You know, we need you. So it's nice
to be able to have those backup guys. But at
the same time, it's like, you know, like I said,
the lead guy gets hurt. That's it for the movie,
you know, at least until he's better. Yeah, exactly.
And it makes perfect sense. That's when you hear
someone say, I did all my own stunts. So like,
I don't think the insurance company would let
you do all your stunts, even if you could. Yeah.
All right. But I want to transition some closing
questions so I can, you know, be mindful of your
time. The first one I love to ask, is there a
book or other books that you love to recommend?
It can be related to our discussion today or
completely unrelated. You know, my favorite book
is it's called Way of the Gladiator. And it has
nothing to do with anything but being a gladiator.
But it just kind of describes like how they.
how the gladiatorial games came to be it's very
like graphic and descriptive um it's by daniel
p maddox it's one of my favorite books um but
uh it just kind of it's like it's like reading
a movie you know it's very it's very uh visual
which is cool um yeah i can't think of any other
books no brilliant all right the same question
then what about a film and or a documentary um
I mean, obviously pumping iron is a huge documentary.
You got to watch, uh, it's just, you know, Arnold
being Arnold, you know? Um, and then, uh, what
was the, what was the other question? Or a movie.
Oh, uh, or a movie. Um, I mean, obviously you
got to go see, you know, the suicide squad. Fast
9 and Peacemaker. Suicide Squad was brilliant,
by the way. I took my little boy. Did you like
it? He's 14 years old now, but yeah. I just love
that kind of genre where the superhero films
now have the comedy in them too. Deadpool's a
perfect example, but yeah, it was a great film.
I love that. I feel like all the Marvel stuff
is very much, I don't know, so soft and smushy
-gushy, and then DC is becoming this very...
action dark drama gritty you know company which
i really like that aspect of things and and as
well as like the comedy aspect where it's very
much you know like deadpool um esque same with
peacemaker have you seen peacemaker yet i have
not seen that yet so i was just talking to my
son about that but no i've seen the obviously
the character in suicide squad but not the show
itself Yeah, so you might want to proof watch
it before you let your son watch it. It's got
a couple things in there that you're like, oh,
maybe I should have covered his eyes or ears,
but definitely check out it. It's pretty hilarious,
and if you like Suicide Squad, you'll love Peacemaker.
Brilliant. Now, he's 14, and I've heard how those
little shits talk at the bus stop, so there's
nothing he can't see. Okay, cool. But he's going
to love it. Now, did you watch The Joker? I did.
I did watch it. Yeah. That was, I mean, we obviously
were talking about mental health. I thought that
was one of the best films I've ever seen. What
they did with that and the kind of genesis of
how we got to that point, but humanizing it.
I thought that was such an incredible film. Kind
of just the origin story and watching him become
the Joker. That was pretty incredible. Um, I'm
really excited for the new Batman. I haven't
seen it yet because everywhere here it's in Spanish
and I can't be, I can't doing this up with the
subtitles, man. I can't watch Batman in Spanish.
So I gotta wait till I get back to the States,
but I'm really excited for that too. I heard
it's good. My little boy watched it with his,
with his mom. And apparently, you know, Roger,
Roger, what's his name? Robert Pattinson. Robert
does a great job of making, again, the very kind
of dark. angry batman which is you know that's
that's what's good when you have an actor that
surprises you because you think of him as a twinkly
vampire and now he's pulling that off that's
actually acting yeah i'm actually really stoked
for him but that's the thing man it's like everybody
tries to put you in a box and put you in a bubble
and be like oh that's he's that guy from that
thing it's like no dude like i can be anything
i want check this shit out you know so i'm super
stoked for him that's pretty cool Yeah. Well,
I'll be completely honest. When Daniel Craig
was first announced as a new James Bond, I was
like, what the fuck is this? Yeah. And then I
watched Casino Royale and I'm like, I couldn't
have been more wrong. He is my favorite Bond
now. And I'm sad. I mean, we'll see what we get
next. But I was really kind of sad that he was
done. Oh, you got to be a big Bond fan, huh?
Oh, yes. It's in my DNA. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool.
Hey, man, maybe it's you in the future. Oh, you
don't want me acting. Like I always tell people
like stunts. Yeah. Like if I'm not talking or
like you said, the acting that we do around stunts.
Absolutely. Me reading lines. I went to drama
school for a year. I was awful. So, yeah, physical
acting was where I kind of tapped out. There
you go. Yeah. All right. Well, then the next
question, is there a person you recommend to
come on this podcast as a guest to speak to the
first responders, military and associated professions
of the world? I'd love for you guys to talk to
my little brother Pierce at some point. I'd love
to get you guys connected. There's another guy.
So his name is, I don't know if you guys have
met Aaron Williamson yet. I don't think so. So
he's a ex, ex Marine Corps actor stunts. He's
a trainer. He's a motivational speaker and he
does like online fitness stuff. Super. Super
in great shape. Very intelligent guy. And I think
he's pretty motivational. So he'd be a good guy
to talk to as well. Brilliant. Beautiful. Thank
you. All right. Well, then the last question
before we make sure people know where to reach
out to you and follow you. What do you do to
decompress when you're not flinging yourself
into walls? Man. i love i love you know i'll
go to the gym and just just lift um swimming
i love just swimming laying out by the pool or
playing xbox man that's that's my jam so brilliant
all right well then for people that do you know
want to learn more about you or follow you on
social media where are the best places for that
um you can follow me at sir underscore spence
underscore stunts um and I, that's pretty much,
and I think I have a Twitter, but I'm not sure.
Uh, I never really use Twitter or, or Facebook,
mainly just Instagram. And, um, yeah, man, that's,
that's, that's my contact. If you want to find
me, sir, spend stunts. Perfect. Beautiful. I
just want to say thank you so much. It's been
such a great conversation. The cool thing about
the journey that I took is I found myself in
the stunt world and then we have all these incredible
parallels. I mean, for example, Jackie Chan's
stunt team, the diligence that they have in their
strength and conditioning and practice is a great
kind of lens to look at the fire service and
law enforcement too. So this has been such an
enlightening conversation. I really appreciate
you being so generous with your time today. No,
thank you so much for having me, James. And I'm
glad that we finally got to touch base because
I know we've been playing phone tag for a while
now. So I'm glad we finally got to link up. You've
been a great host.