WEBVTT

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This episode is sponsored by yet another company

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that I truly stand behind, and that is Levels.

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And Levels is going to be offering you, the Behind

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the Shield podcast audience, a discount that

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I will tell you about at the end of this introduction.

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Now, before I even dive into what Levels does,

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when I had a conversation with their CEO and

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founder, Josh Clemente, he underlined such an

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important topic. So many of us rely on visits

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to our physicians to tell us how we are doing,

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and that is so backward. I am an absolute believer

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in putting autonomy back into the hands of the

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individual so they can take care of their own

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health. Now, what Levels does is it gives us

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they have programs that focus on weight loss,

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heart health, and glucose stability. I've now

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been through this program twice, and I'll kind

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of illustrate what it will look like. So you

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make an initial consultation with your levels

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coach. You wear a continuous blood sugar monitor

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I did it through Quest Diagnostics. A clinician

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with levels will then analyze your results and

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give you an action plan. That's when you can

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then start hitting your own health goals and

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in real time track your own progress. And then

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depending on the level you subscribe to, there's

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also a second blood work so you can now see how

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you're doing six months later. Now by combining

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together, 80 % of Levels members improve their

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biomarkers. Now, as I mentioned, Levels is offering

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you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast,

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$100 off your first order if you use the promo

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code SHIELD at levels .com. And if you're interested

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in getting Levels for your department, email

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Josh Clemente, the founder and CEO of Levels,

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at josh at levels .com. And if you want to hear

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the origin story and so much more about this

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incredible company, listen to my interview with

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CEO and founder Josh Clemente on episode 1159

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of the Behind the Shield podcast. Welcome to

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the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my

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name is James Geering, and this week it is my

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absolute honor to welcome on the show paramedic,

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patient care director, and the writer of the

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film Code 3. Patrick Pianetta. Now, in this conversation,

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we discuss a host of topics from his journey

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into EMS, the volunteer fire service, private

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ambulance, some of his notable and career calls,

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the college assignment that created Code 3, how

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he and his brother brought this to the screen,

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the proactive solution to our healthcare crisis,

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mental health in first responders, and so much

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more. Now, before we get to this incredible conversation,

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as I say every week, please just take a moment.

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Go to whichever app you listen to this on. Subscribe

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to the show. Leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single five -star rating truly does elevate

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this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find. And this is a free library of

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almost 1 ,200 episodes now. So all I ask in return

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is that you help share these incredible men and

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women's stories so I can get them to every single

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person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Patrick...

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Pianezza. Enjoy. Well, Patrick, I want to say

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thank you so much for coming on the Behind the

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Shield podcast today. I watched Code 3 literally

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about two days ago and was so blown away how

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good it was. And I mean that there's an absolute

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pile of shit when it comes to EMS and fire television

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out there. But this was really, really good.

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And so then I took a kind of deep dive into,

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you know, who were the people behind it? Because

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obviously there were real paramedics involved.

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And here we are. So I want to start by welcoming

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you onto the show today. Thank you so much for

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having me. I'm really glad it resonated with

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you. That was one of the biggest things that

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I was passionate about was making sure that we

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got it right. Yeah, and you did. And I'm sure

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this has been a conversation for you before,

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but I think the pit is another one this last

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year that did a really, really good job through

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a medic, doctor, nurse's eyes. Yeah, the funny

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thing is one of the people that plays a physician

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on the pit, Aisha Harris. She plays one of the

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physicians in the later episodes, was a paramedic

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in our movie. So she had a line. Well, she had

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many lines. She's one of the characters there.

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And I would text her and say, you know, like

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you went from paramedic to doctor in a year.

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Congratulations. That was fantastic. Well, very

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first question, where on planet Earth are we

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finding you today? I am in lovely Kiowa Island,

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South Carolina right now. I don't live here,

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but I'm fortunate enough to be able to do the

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holidays here. My wife's family have a place

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in Kiowa and I went to college in South Carolina.

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So it's a little bit like coming home. So every

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Christmas I get the opportunity to fly back to

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South Carolina and take in this incredibly beautiful

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scenery that you can't see. But it's really lovely.

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Yeah, it's so funny. People have those screens

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behind them when we do the Zoom calls, and there's

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these beautiful leather -bound libraries, and

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you've got a grand piano over your right shoulder.

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Yeah, right. Yeah, something you can obviously

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tell I play regularly. Unfortunately, I'm in

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a spare bedroom right now, so this looks way

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better than where I'm actually sitting. All right.

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Well, speaking of your origin story, tell me

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where you were born. And tell me a little bit

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about your family dynamic, what your parents

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did, how many siblings. Yeah, so this is great.

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I don't get a chance often to say this. What

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I tell everybody is I'm what happens when a small

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business owner and a physical therapist have

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a baby. You get somebody who gets their master's

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in healthcare administration. So I grew up in

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Springfield, Illinois. I was born in Springfield,

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Illinois, I should say. I grew up in a little

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town called Sherman, north of Springfield. And

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the family dynamic was fantastic. I've got a

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little brother who's two years younger than I

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am. We grew up in central Illinois playing soccer.

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I played a little bit of football. Playing is

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probably being generous. I was on the team more

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than I played. I had a lot of fun there. My dad

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had a bakery growing up, so we learned the value

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of hard work very early on in life. We were in

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the bakery making bread a lot of the times, and

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my mom was a physical therapist. Her specialty

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was with kids with special needs and disabilities.

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We would go out and I was constantly exposed

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to that kind of stuff. So I was exposed to health

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care very early on. And I thought I wanted to

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be a doctor for the longest time until I found

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out I was allergic to organic chemistry. But

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we had a really great growing up. We were very

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fortunate. My mother never naturalized. So she

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was a Canadian citizen. So we would go visit

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her family in Montreal. So we kind of got that

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exposure to. foreign languages and and culture

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uh in montreal if for anybody who's never been

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there the in quebec it's very french it's very

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european it's it's a beautiful city i love that

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city and we got the opportunity to spend a lot

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of time up there and then like i said grew up

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in the midwest and then my father was italian

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so we would go to italy to go visit his family

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on occasion as well so we really had we really

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had a great time it was a lot of fun growing

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up and uh Like I said, I was always drawn to

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the medicine side. Like as a child, I just, I

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always, I was really lucky. I really liked my

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pediatrician. I was one of those weird kids that

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really liked his doctor. And so I would, I would

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ask him a million questions every time, assuming

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I wasn't like super sick. Like, how'd you do

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this? What do I have to do? And yeah, wanted

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to go to med school since an early age. And I

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came into EMS by complete accident and fire department

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was like. Total accident. So I went to EMT school

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through a cavalcade of funny mistakes. And I

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just figured I might be useful. Something bad

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happens and it'll look good on a med school resume.

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So I'll go to my I'll go do EMT school and fell

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in love with it. I just absolutely fell in love

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with it. I my very first clinical shift ever.

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I walked in the ER. I didn't know anything about

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anything. And they were working a code in the

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trauma bay. And the charge nurse just said, hey,

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you know, it's a good thing you're here. They're

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working a code. If you want to go check it out,

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you should go. You know, they're doing it right

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now. And so I was very apprehensive, incredibly

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nervous, had no idea if I had the stomach for

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it. And back in those days, they had the hands

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paddles, like not the stickers. They had the

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old school. like things you had to actually use

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and i had opened the door and you couldn't have

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scripted a more hollywood moment i opened the

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door the docklings over clear bam the guy jumps

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up off the test and i was just like this is the

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coolest thing i've ever seen i want to do this

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forever and went straight from emt to paramedic

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in like two years i spent so much time in the

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emergency room doing clinical time that they

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were just like, would you please just put an

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app in and we'll just pay you to be here? And

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that's quite literally how I got my first job

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in healthcare. And I joined the fire department

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because I was too young to drive the ambulance.

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So I couldn't work for the ambulance company.

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But the Sherman Volunteer Fire Department, which

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I was a member of for about four years, I walked

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into the doors and the chief happened to be there.

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Just said, hey, I have no interest in fire. I

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just want to do the medical stuff. And Chief

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Coon, great guy, put his arm around me. He goes,

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what's that sign say out there? And I said, it's

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his fire department. He goes, if you're going

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to be here, you're going to be a fireman. I said,

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OK, sign me up. And so I went to the fire academy

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and had a lot of fun with those guys, too, and

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got to experience the fire service as well as

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EMS and just have loved public safety ever since.

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Going all the way back to your parents for a

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moment. Firstly, I used to work in upstate New

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York. So I'd go to Montreal on our days off every

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so often. And they have by far the wettest French

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toast I've ever had in my life. It's basically

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raw. It's like French toast sushi. Yeah. Yeah.

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There's a little bit of culture shock whenever

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you go up there. The poutine, all of it, it was

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great. I loved it. And then with your dad, was

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he first generation immigrant or were his parents

00:11:26.779 --> 00:11:30.470
the immigrants? No, my grandfather came over

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on the boat. My dad was born in Italy, but naturalized

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here. So he naturalized before I was born. So

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I'm always, because being an immigrant myself

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even, the kind of pros and the cons. With your

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dad's immigration story, even your grandfather's

00:11:46.049 --> 00:11:50.309
maybe is a better perspective. What were the

00:11:50.309 --> 00:11:52.710
highs or the pros and what were the cons that

00:11:52.710 --> 00:11:55.049
they experienced on their journey to this country?

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So my grandfather would tell some stories. He

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was pretty cloistered about it. He didn't tell

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many, but he would let slip that when he came

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over in like the early 40s, I think is when he

00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:10.460
came over, you know, they still had signs, you

00:12:10.460 --> 00:12:14.399
know, no Italians wanted, no Irish or no Irish

00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:16.659
Italians or dogs could apply or something like

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really heinous stuff. But he never really talked

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about it all that much. He came in and apprenticed

00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:25.740
in New York and then moved to Chicago. and started

00:12:25.740 --> 00:12:28.500
a bakery in Chicago. Once he got that started,

00:12:28.620 --> 00:12:30.759
he called for my grandmother and my dad to come

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and then they came over. My dad would tell the

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story of when he was growing up in Chicago, where

00:12:38.299 --> 00:12:41.539
he was at, there was a lot of Italians, but it

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was still felt like outsider syndrome, a little

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imposter syndrome a little bit. And then, you

00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:48.480
know, you moved to Springfield and I think we're

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one of like three families that spoke Italian

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in that city. We certainly had our people, but

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it was a little bit diminished. And my mom had,

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I mean, my mom had a pretty easy, she spoke four

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languages and she melded right in when she moved

00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:10.899
down here. But yeah, the pros certainly are,

00:13:11.019 --> 00:13:12.980
you know, I have dual citizenship with here in

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Canada. I'm working on getting the paperwork

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filed to get my Italian so I can have EU citizenship

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as well. That comes with a lot of benefits, obviously.

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But the other benefit, too, was just culturally,

00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:28.620
growing up in a household that spoke two languages,

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which was very unusual where I grew up, and being

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exposed to different cultures. And I know that

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French and Italian, they are similar. I'm not

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making light of it. But you go to Montreal, Montreal

00:13:38.580 --> 00:13:43.419
is very different than Italy. But having the

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ability... and really the privilege to go to

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those two areas was was fantastic and and having

00:13:49.289 --> 00:13:51.169
family there made it much easier because it's

00:13:51.169 --> 00:13:53.870
not like you know we certainly weren't millionaires

00:13:53.870 --> 00:13:55.289
like we would go there it's not like we were

00:13:55.289 --> 00:13:57.210
staying at hotels we were just going to grandma's

00:13:57.210 --> 00:14:01.049
house in really either country um but having

00:14:01.049 --> 00:14:03.629
the ability to travel like that you know as a

00:14:03.629 --> 00:14:08.580
teenager and younger was was very fortunate I

00:14:08.580 --> 00:14:10.100
think it just gives you a completely different

00:14:10.100 --> 00:14:12.940
perspective and lens on the world when you've

00:14:12.940 --> 00:14:14.940
just simply been to other places and you've seen

00:14:14.940 --> 00:14:17.259
other cultures. Because I'll give you an example

00:14:17.259 --> 00:14:20.740
of ignorance in the UK. Supposedly, we were supposed

00:14:20.740 --> 00:14:22.960
to hate the French. But then you go to France

00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:24.700
and there's all these beautiful people. And there's

00:14:24.700 --> 00:14:26.440
some dickheads, of course. Every country has

00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:28.980
them. But overall, they're beautiful people and

00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:33.480
amazing language. I love French. And you learn,

00:14:33.539 --> 00:14:35.399
obviously, about what happened in World War II.

00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:38.200
And then you see the nuanced conversation of,

00:14:38.259 --> 00:14:40.320
yeah, well, this is tarring everyone with the

00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:43.080
same brush. And I think the ultimate enemy of

00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:45.740
prejudice is simply traveling. This is actually

00:14:45.740 --> 00:14:50.500
dropping your preconceived notions and just going

00:14:50.500 --> 00:14:52.759
to a place and looking around, immersing yourself.

00:14:53.740 --> 00:14:55.500
Well, lo and behold, they're just people just

00:14:55.500 --> 00:14:57.759
like you, you know, mothers and fathers and siblings

00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:00.320
and kids that are playing and dogs that are barking.

00:15:00.379 --> 00:15:04.179
And it's amazing. So I wish everyone had the

00:15:04.179 --> 00:15:06.059
opportunity to travel because it really would

00:15:06.059 --> 00:15:09.100
pull so many of us together, I think. I 100 %

00:15:09.100 --> 00:15:11.620
agree. I have been stranded in foreign countries

00:15:11.620 --> 00:15:13.779
and just made fast friends. And some of those

00:15:13.779 --> 00:15:16.960
people, you know, who I don't know to this day,

00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:19.080
like shepherd me through some, you know, you

00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:22.419
need to go over here or. One of my favorites

00:15:22.419 --> 00:15:26.559
was we were in Italy and we were supposed to

00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:28.039
get on a boat. I don't remember all the specifics.

00:15:28.179 --> 00:15:31.899
I was younger. I was a kid. But basically, we're

00:15:31.899 --> 00:15:33.679
looking at the pamphlet, right? And the pamphlet

00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:35.200
said, I don't know, the boat leaves at three

00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:37.620
or something. And we were trying to find the

00:15:37.620 --> 00:15:42.480
right dock or whatever to get back. And one of

00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:44.100
the locals was like, no, no, no, the boat leaves

00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:46.899
at two. And we were like. This says three and

00:15:46.899 --> 00:15:48.600
they're like, everybody knows it's at two. Like

00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:51.340
you got to go over here, go talk to Jimmy. He's

00:15:51.340 --> 00:15:54.200
the one who lets you on the boat. So yeah, I

00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:56.240
mean, I absolutely agree. I think that the more

00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:59.419
people go out there and experience other cultures,

00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:01.240
like you said, yeah, there's going to be dicks,

00:16:01.259 --> 00:16:04.620
but by and large, in my experience, people are

00:16:04.620 --> 00:16:07.059
people and they are, they're, they're, they're

00:16:07.059 --> 00:16:09.860
nice. They're, they're, they're just nice people.

00:16:09.940 --> 00:16:12.340
People are people and are willing to help most

00:16:12.340 --> 00:16:16.169
of them. Absolutely. Going to the physical therapy,

00:16:16.250 --> 00:16:18.789
especially in the special needs community, have

00:16:18.789 --> 00:16:22.149
you had any conversations with your mom about

00:16:22.149 --> 00:16:25.590
the evolution of that world? Because especially,

00:16:25.750 --> 00:16:28.690
you know, through the last 22 years now, when

00:16:28.690 --> 00:16:31.169
we had a lot of our veterans coming back and

00:16:31.169 --> 00:16:33.649
that kind of adaptive athlete thing really started

00:16:33.649 --> 00:16:36.210
evolving. And now we're seeing, you know, young

00:16:36.210 --> 00:16:39.309
men with Down syndrome doing Ironman triathlons

00:16:39.309 --> 00:16:41.789
and, you know, cerebral palsy power lifters.

00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:44.980
know what once was a population that was kind

00:16:44.980 --> 00:16:47.519
of kept in institutions away from everyone else

00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:51.240
now they're front and center and celebrated yeah

00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:53.840
i wish she was still around to be able to see

00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:57.600
all the the the changes that have occurred unfortunately

00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:00.299
she passed in 2016 so she got a little bit of

00:17:00.299 --> 00:17:04.380
it but i mean when we were growing up you know

00:17:04.380 --> 00:17:09.490
we're talking 80s early 90s it was not unusual

00:17:09.490 --> 00:17:12.089
to hear the word retarded thrown around in what

00:17:12.089 --> 00:17:15.529
would be considered an appropriate phrase, like

00:17:15.529 --> 00:17:19.069
the school for retarded children. Now, I'm well

00:17:19.069 --> 00:17:23.690
aware that that word is wrong. But back then,

00:17:23.769 --> 00:17:28.769
that was the nomenclature of the time. And she

00:17:28.769 --> 00:17:31.150
worked for some of those facilities and was always

00:17:31.150 --> 00:17:33.089
a passionate advocate for them. In fact, she

00:17:33.089 --> 00:17:36.250
helped. She didn't build it, but I know that

00:17:36.250 --> 00:17:39.329
she was somehow involved in the first adaptive

00:17:39.329 --> 00:17:41.690
park in Springfield, Illinois, where kids with

00:17:41.690 --> 00:17:43.849
wheelchairs, you know, could get on a swing and

00:17:43.849 --> 00:17:46.190
stuff like that. So that's always, you know,

00:17:46.190 --> 00:17:48.549
in retrospect is very heartwarming, but to see

00:17:48.549 --> 00:17:51.410
that kind of passion before it was, before it

00:17:51.410 --> 00:17:53.710
was the right thing to do before it was like

00:17:53.710 --> 00:17:58.180
in vogue. She always had a passion for that population

00:17:58.180 --> 00:18:00.359
and always did her best to make sure those people

00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:03.160
were seen and felt as equal members of society.

00:18:03.339 --> 00:18:06.420
In fact, she would make my brother and I go to

00:18:06.420 --> 00:18:09.119
one of the schools that she would work at to

00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:12.920
meet the kids. And I'll never forget, I remember

00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:15.559
I couldn't have been more than like six or seven

00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:17.500
years old. And it was like, well, what's wrong

00:18:17.500 --> 00:18:19.900
with that kid? And my mom said, there's nothing

00:18:19.900 --> 00:18:21.619
wrong with them. They're just different. And

00:18:21.619 --> 00:18:24.430
I'll always remember that. that teaching. Cause

00:18:24.430 --> 00:18:26.009
to me it was, you know, you're, you're five,

00:18:26.109 --> 00:18:29.109
six years old, that, that kid doesn't operate

00:18:29.109 --> 00:18:30.950
like I do, you know, like what's wrong with them.

00:18:30.970 --> 00:18:33.109
And it's like, it's, there's nothing wrong. You

00:18:33.109 --> 00:18:34.970
just need to, you know, shift the way you look

00:18:34.970 --> 00:18:37.049
at it. And that's one of those things that's

00:18:37.049 --> 00:18:39.730
always stuck with me. That's funny. Cause that

00:18:39.730 --> 00:18:42.250
mirrors a phrase that I really love when you're

00:18:42.250 --> 00:18:45.769
talking about someone's behavior in general.

00:18:45.849 --> 00:18:48.450
So they could be, you know, distraught, they

00:18:48.450 --> 00:18:51.150
could be angry, whatever it is, but rather than

00:18:51.150 --> 00:18:53.759
saying what's wrong with you, You say, excuse

00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:56.440
me, you say what happened to you. And, you know,

00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:58.220
that obviously that person with the anger, they

00:18:58.220 --> 00:19:00.099
may have just learned that their, you know, loved

00:19:00.099 --> 00:19:02.900
one passed away two days before. And so you start

00:19:02.900 --> 00:19:05.960
to unpack, you know, the root cause of this behavior.

00:19:06.380 --> 00:19:07.980
And it's the same with what you're talking about.

00:19:08.019 --> 00:19:09.720
There's nothing wrong with them. But what happened

00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:11.920
to you? Well, when, you know, my mother was delivering

00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:14.259
me, the air was cut off. And that's why now,

00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:17.019
you know, I have these deficits. So it's even

00:19:17.019 --> 00:19:18.880
with the physical side, that's a great way of

00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:20.200
reframing it. It's like, well, what happened

00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:22.609
to you? You know, what's your backstory? what

00:19:22.609 --> 00:19:25.890
are your parameters and your capabilities? And

00:19:25.890 --> 00:19:27.849
then that gives you this whole scope then to

00:19:27.849 --> 00:19:31.450
work with. And then we see fricking paraplegic

00:19:31.450 --> 00:19:33.670
climbing ropes in their wheelchairs and all these

00:19:33.670 --> 00:19:36.269
things that I think it's so amazing. And I'm

00:19:36.269 --> 00:19:38.069
sure she'd probably be beaming from ear to ear

00:19:38.069 --> 00:19:40.250
to see what that community is doing these days.

00:19:40.450 --> 00:19:43.190
Oh, she'd be overjoyed. And like I said, even

00:19:43.190 --> 00:19:46.289
back in the day, she was a fierce advocate of

00:19:46.289 --> 00:19:49.279
making sure that they felt felt seen and especially

00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:51.559
dealing, she was very good. Her specialty was

00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:54.700
in pediatrics. And so like just embracing those

00:19:54.700 --> 00:19:57.660
children and making them feel valued was, I mean,

00:19:57.680 --> 00:19:59.720
had huge ripple effects. I mean, I can tell you

00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:03.319
on her funeral or the day of her funeral, I'm

00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:06.000
not kidding when I say like, we, like my brother

00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:08.940
and my father had no idea that the impact, like

00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:11.180
we knew that people liked her, loved her obviously,

00:20:11.259 --> 00:20:14.059
but like. when i say there was a line stretching

00:20:14.059 --> 00:20:16.640
around the building like it blew us away like

00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:18.440
people were coming to us that we had never met

00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:20.980
uh that my mom had worked with either their child

00:20:20.980 --> 00:20:23.579
or their teacher or something and it was like

00:20:23.579 --> 00:20:26.000
story after story the very first person was telling

00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:27.759
us the story about how my mom made an impact

00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:31.220
on their kid and was like the doctor said my

00:20:31.220 --> 00:20:32.980
kid would never walk again and you know here

00:20:32.980 --> 00:20:35.359
they are and it's just like tears and it's just

00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:38.240
like god like things that you you know you're

00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:40.279
you're you're always the hero of your own story

00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:42.559
and and my mom wouldn't tell like to her it was

00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:44.799
like that was what she did she would never like

00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.220
stand on a podium and be like i am so great that

00:20:47.220 --> 00:20:49.859
you know i did this but just story after story

00:20:49.859 --> 00:20:53.640
after story was was incredible yeah that's amazing

00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.440
when you were talking earlier you were talking

00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:59.730
about organic chemistry i wanted to be a firefighter

00:20:59.730 --> 00:21:02.170
when I was young was told school age that I was

00:21:02.170 --> 00:21:04.309
colorblind and they were told me you can't be

00:21:04.309 --> 00:21:07.009
a firefighter you can't be a pilot so then the

00:21:07.009 --> 00:21:09.150
other thing I wanted to do was medicine so I'm

00:21:09.150 --> 00:21:10.829
like all right well then I'll be a doctor until

00:21:10.829 --> 00:21:13.049
I got to the maths and I'm like okay I won't

00:21:13.049 --> 00:21:16.609
be a doctor so had a similar path with you and

00:21:16.609 --> 00:21:19.029
then years later when I found fire and EMS you

00:21:19.029 --> 00:21:20.869
know I kind of debunked these myths that I was

00:21:20.869 --> 00:21:23.809
told as a child I realized it wasn't actually

00:21:24.430 --> 00:21:26.509
the physician behind the desk that i wanted to

00:21:26.509 --> 00:21:28.849
be i didn't even know what a paramedic was but

00:21:28.849 --> 00:21:30.490
that was it i wanted to be you know the kind

00:21:30.490 --> 00:21:34.869
of uh cartoon hero out in the street saving lives

00:21:34.869 --> 00:21:36.829
type of doctor and you know that's obviously

00:21:36.829 --> 00:21:40.730
ems so what made you even kind of go towards

00:21:40.730 --> 00:21:44.009
that journey and if before that talk to me more

00:21:44.009 --> 00:21:46.869
about the the academic barriers to you going

00:21:46.869 --> 00:21:50.079
through traditional medicine Well, for me, it

00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:54.279
was like you, very similar. I am kind of a paradox

00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:59.519
in this. I find the math and the sciences, all

00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:03.670
sciences, to be incredibly fascinating. My wife

00:22:03.670 --> 00:22:06.089
gets annoyed with me because I will sit down

00:22:06.089 --> 00:22:09.250
and happily watch what I lovingly refer to as

00:22:09.250 --> 00:22:12.049
nerdy YouTube about like astrophysics or, you

00:22:12.049 --> 00:22:15.109
know, mathematic theories and stuff. And it truly

00:22:15.109 --> 00:22:17.650
it's one of the things that I'm just in amazement

00:22:17.650 --> 00:22:20.690
with. I enjoy it. To me, it's fascinating. Don't

00:22:20.690 --> 00:22:22.670
ask me to recreate any of what they're doing.

00:22:22.769 --> 00:22:29.240
I can't do it. But I struggled in math my whole

00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:33.819
life. I've had positions where I was in charge

00:22:33.819 --> 00:22:36.619
of large analytic departments, data analytics.

00:22:39.860 --> 00:22:41.819
statistical processing for large health systems.

00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:45.000
But I literally have difficulty doing math in

00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:47.160
my head. Like if you give me like seven plus

00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:48.940
five, it takes me a second. Like if I have a

00:22:48.940 --> 00:22:50.720
piece of paper, it's fine. But if you ask me

00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:52.339
off the cuff, I can't do it. And I've been in

00:22:52.339 --> 00:22:55.319
charge of, like I said, very large analytics

00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:58.119
processes for health systems, which is fine.

00:22:58.140 --> 00:23:00.099
As long as I have a computer or some adaptive

00:23:00.099 --> 00:23:01.900
device, I guess, a piece of paper or something,

00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:04.799
I'm really good at making data tell a story.

00:23:05.339 --> 00:23:07.480
I'm not so good at cranking the data out myself.

00:23:08.450 --> 00:23:11.170
But so, yeah, those were huge hindrances for

00:23:11.170 --> 00:23:13.170
me. I mean, every standardized test I would take

00:23:13.170 --> 00:23:17.349
for math or chemistry, I was always good in biology,

00:23:17.410 --> 00:23:21.690
but chemistry, organic chemistry, physics, anything

00:23:21.690 --> 00:23:24.410
like that, I struggled with a lot in high school

00:23:24.410 --> 00:23:27.799
and in college because it was. The applicability

00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:30.819
of that work was so hard for me, but I understood

00:23:30.819 --> 00:23:33.319
it as for whatever reason, as soon as it transitioned

00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:35.900
into biology, like the Krebs cycle, how we make

00:23:35.900 --> 00:23:38.299
ATP, like I can tell you, I can figure that out.

00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:40.380
I understand it. But like, if you just throw

00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:42.819
sodium and chloride together and, you know, 25

00:23:42.819 --> 00:23:44.619
grams of this and 14 grams of that, how many

00:23:44.619 --> 00:23:47.160
grams of salt do you get? Like, I'm like, I have

00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:50.220
no idea. I can't do that. But I know the body

00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:52.799
needs salt and I know what it does in the body.

00:23:54.339 --> 00:23:57.700
So that's where I always struggled. And I would

00:23:57.700 --> 00:24:02.240
take these courses. I took chemistry 111 and

00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:05.000
112. Both of those times, I took those classes

00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:08.160
twice to get a passing grade. Organic chemistry,

00:24:08.339 --> 00:24:11.160
I took twice to get a passing grade. Biology,

00:24:11.980 --> 00:24:14.240
I was getting A's. And the general chemistries

00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:17.859
and mathematics, like algebra one and two. took

00:24:17.859 --> 00:24:20.019
both those classes twice. So from an academic

00:24:20.019 --> 00:24:22.319
standpoint in those, in those rote classes, they

00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:24.900
were very challenging for me. But when I found

00:24:24.900 --> 00:24:27.599
a way to apply that, those sciences and those

00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:32.059
maths, like in, in being a paramedic, all of

00:24:32.059 --> 00:24:33.480
a sudden everything clicked into place. And I

00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:39.069
was very good at that part of it. But yeah, that

00:24:39.069 --> 00:24:40.910
was always a challenge. I always struggled with

00:24:40.910 --> 00:24:43.170
this idea of like, I know I'm smart, but I can't

00:24:43.170 --> 00:24:46.730
prove it. That was always one of the challenges.

00:24:46.990 --> 00:24:51.950
And so having the opportunity to operate on one

00:24:51.950 --> 00:24:54.369
of my strengths, which is writing and communications,

00:24:54.569 --> 00:24:57.589
getting a major in that, and then minoring in

00:24:57.589 --> 00:24:59.809
the medical humanities really helped out. And

00:24:59.809 --> 00:25:03.569
then discovering that there was a master's in

00:25:03.569 --> 00:25:05.630
healthcare administration really blew my mind.

00:25:06.349 --> 00:25:08.869
got into that program and really excelled that

00:25:08.869 --> 00:25:10.890
way. And so I was able to transition a lot of

00:25:10.890 --> 00:25:14.289
clinical work into administrative work for, like

00:25:14.289 --> 00:25:16.690
I was saying before, mostly in inpatient experience

00:25:16.690 --> 00:25:19.289
programs across the country. But yeah, those

00:25:19.289 --> 00:25:20.930
academic barriers were there. I was always good

00:25:20.930 --> 00:25:25.710
at reading, writing. I was mediocre in the sciences

00:25:25.710 --> 00:25:28.589
if it wasn't biology or biology related. And

00:25:28.589 --> 00:25:31.529
then like math and chemistry, I was just like.

00:25:32.350 --> 00:25:34.049
The professors would just shake their head and

00:25:34.049 --> 00:25:35.670
be like, how many times we got to tell you this?

00:25:35.690 --> 00:25:37.730
And I was like, until it sticks, man, let's go.

00:25:37.829 --> 00:25:41.490
This is what you're paid to do. Well, you mentioned

00:25:41.490 --> 00:25:43.150
about not being old enough to drive the ambulance.

00:25:43.210 --> 00:25:45.650
Was the volunteer fire department the first place

00:25:45.650 --> 00:25:49.319
you were working as an EMT and or medic? As yeah,

00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:51.700
as all the way up to paramedic, the fire department

00:25:51.700 --> 00:25:53.359
was the only place I could work because I could

00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:55.420
drive for some reason. The silly thing in Illinois,

00:25:55.500 --> 00:25:57.700
I could drive an 85 foot long fire truck, but

00:25:57.700 --> 00:25:59.380
I couldn't drive an ambulance because their insurance,

00:25:59.500 --> 00:26:02.240
you had to be 21 or 22 in order to be covered

00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:07.339
by their insurance program. But I also worked

00:26:07.339 --> 00:26:09.559
in the emergency room, which made me a much better

00:26:09.559 --> 00:26:12.279
medic. So coming out of EMT school, as I started.

00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:15.240
As soon as I got my EMT, I jumped into the emergency

00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:18.900
room and worked night shift. And the beauty of

00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:20.660
that was that it was a level one trauma center

00:26:20.660 --> 00:26:24.880
and a burn center. So learning medications as

00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:28.339
an EMT, learning what happens in the hospital

00:26:28.339 --> 00:26:31.180
setting made me a much better medic for when

00:26:31.180 --> 00:26:33.660
I did get on the street. And so then supplement

00:26:33.660 --> 00:26:36.579
that, excuse me, with the fire service, which

00:26:36.579 --> 00:26:39.900
80, 85 % of all calls at fire service run are

00:26:39.900 --> 00:26:43.759
medical anyway. was really a beautiful way to

00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:47.779
come up in this business. And then when I transferred

00:26:47.779 --> 00:26:52.500
to the University of South Carolina, South Carolina

00:26:52.500 --> 00:26:54.700
would not recognize my fire credentials, but

00:26:54.700 --> 00:26:57.420
they would recognize my paramedic. And so I went

00:26:57.420 --> 00:27:00.740
straight paramedic and worked 911 all through

00:27:00.740 --> 00:27:03.579
the rest of my undergrad and graduate program.

00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:07.119
And so all of those skill sets and all of that

00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:10.460
experience in in hospital and on the fire service,

00:27:10.579 --> 00:27:13.400
made me a much better medic when I became, quote,

00:27:13.460 --> 00:27:16.799
a full -time paramedic. That's what I saw. And

00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:18.579
that's what I tried to do, you know, when I was

00:27:18.579 --> 00:27:21.119
a medic as well is, you know, you had the one

00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:22.779
end of the spectrum, which was your cookbook

00:27:22.779 --> 00:27:25.220
medic, where, you know, they just went to the

00:27:25.220 --> 00:27:29.359
page and, okay, this is the thing. And then you

00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:33.019
had the critically. thinking paramedic who obviously

00:27:33.019 --> 00:27:35.400
might be kind of nuancing whatever the presentation

00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:37.119
is. It might be a combination of two or three

00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:40.099
different things, but also what would the hospital

00:27:40.099 --> 00:27:41.700
need? You know, are they going to have to do

00:27:41.700 --> 00:27:44.180
a CT? Can we put large bore IVs in, et cetera,

00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:46.839
and trying to set them up so there's a continuance

00:27:46.839 --> 00:27:49.880
of care versus now they're having to do IVs or

00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:51.900
in some places they even got to draw blood before

00:27:51.900 --> 00:27:54.920
we got there. So, you know, setting them up for

00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:57.240
success. And that was, you know, obviously ultimately

00:27:57.240 --> 00:27:59.799
the best thing for the patient. And even, you

00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:02.339
know, the right facility, like my last place,

00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:06.420
a lot of them, you know, that weren't really

00:28:06.420 --> 00:28:08.839
into the job anymore, we just take a stroke patient

00:28:08.839 --> 00:28:10.839
to the nearest facility versus a comprehensive

00:28:10.839 --> 00:28:13.839
stroke care, you know, center so that if it is

00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:15.920
a, you know, a bleed, for example, that you're

00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:19.279
in the right place. So I did see that myself,

00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.970
the more. the more you kind of either in your

00:28:22.970 --> 00:28:25.890
clinicals or you just care enough to set them

00:28:25.890 --> 00:28:28.029
up for success in that facility. In my opinion,

00:28:28.029 --> 00:28:29.930
the better medic you were, if you just took them

00:28:29.930 --> 00:28:32.089
to the door, you know, offloaded them and walked

00:28:32.089 --> 00:28:34.009
away and didn't, you know, follow up on, Hey,

00:28:34.049 --> 00:28:36.490
what happened? What did you find? Were there

00:28:36.490 --> 00:28:38.950
any scans? What was in the blood work? I felt

00:28:38.950 --> 00:28:42.029
like that was kind of the. the hard stop is your

00:28:42.029 --> 00:28:44.250
growth as a medic. But if you cared about that

00:28:44.250 --> 00:28:46.309
continuance of care, I think that was kind of

00:28:46.309 --> 00:28:50.069
the, how you kept improving your medic skills

00:28:50.069 --> 00:28:52.450
as you progressed through your career. I was

00:28:52.450 --> 00:28:55.490
very lucky. I had a fantastic paramedic instructor

00:28:55.490 --> 00:28:58.130
who worked in the emergency room where I was

00:28:58.130 --> 00:29:00.950
working. And so we were coworkers before he became

00:29:00.950 --> 00:29:04.390
my paramedic instructor. And one of the things

00:29:04.390 --> 00:29:06.430
that he would always, whenever we were doing

00:29:06.430 --> 00:29:08.029
clinical time on the ambulance, whenever we'd

00:29:08.029 --> 00:29:11.490
bring somebody in, If he was working, he'd say,

00:29:11.569 --> 00:29:13.630
all right, great report. What do you think is

00:29:13.630 --> 00:29:16.710
going on? And so then, you know, you had to you

00:29:16.710 --> 00:29:18.509
had to be on your toes like, well, I think this

00:29:18.509 --> 00:29:21.470
is a GI bleed or I think this is, you know, that.

00:29:21.869 --> 00:29:24.269
And what was funny was a lot of the physicians

00:29:24.269 --> 00:29:26.269
would then once once you were out of school,

00:29:26.309 --> 00:29:28.190
they would continue that. And especially, like

00:29:28.190 --> 00:29:30.829
I said, I still worked in the ER. They'd be like,

00:29:30.930 --> 00:29:32.589
all right, doctor, what do you think is going

00:29:32.589 --> 00:29:40.109
on? So it's interesting. With the volunteer fire

00:29:40.109 --> 00:29:42.849
department that has a paramedic on staff, what

00:29:42.849 --> 00:29:46.390
did that look like? Because usually in volunteer

00:29:46.390 --> 00:29:49.529
fire, you might have maybe an EMT level, if that,

00:29:49.710 --> 00:29:52.210
but you had quite a high level on the EMS side.

00:29:52.329 --> 00:29:54.410
So what was that dynamic? Did they use you as

00:29:54.410 --> 00:29:57.880
a full medic? They couldn't. So we were only

00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:01.059
an EMT level fire department. So we, even though

00:30:01.059 --> 00:30:03.160
I was a paramedic, we didn't, I didn't have the

00:30:03.160 --> 00:30:05.660
drugs or the monitor that, you know, the manual

00:30:05.660 --> 00:30:08.220
monitor. We had AEDs obviously, but like there

00:30:08.220 --> 00:30:11.619
was an inability to go above the EMT level just

00:30:11.619 --> 00:30:14.420
because of the supplies that were there. Like

00:30:14.420 --> 00:30:16.240
I couldn't start a line if I wanted to. We didn't

00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:18.220
have an IV bag or a drip set or anything like

00:30:18.220 --> 00:30:23.029
that. However. What I like to do, and I still

00:30:23.029 --> 00:30:25.549
do, I'm kind of an educator at heart, is when

00:30:25.549 --> 00:30:28.089
we would do monthly trainings, if it was medical,

00:30:28.289 --> 00:30:30.849
I wasn't the only paramedic, obviously, but there

00:30:30.849 --> 00:30:33.809
was a few of us, and we would do the education,

00:30:34.170 --> 00:30:37.609
the monthly education on medicine. One month,

00:30:37.609 --> 00:30:41.869
it would be airway. Another month, it would be

00:30:41.869 --> 00:30:45.130
cardiology. We would do that kind of thing. Then

00:30:45.130 --> 00:30:47.630
on seeing what that helped us out with is when

00:30:47.630 --> 00:30:50.210
the ambulance would come. to pick up our patients.

00:30:50.369 --> 00:30:52.329
You know, if there was one of us that were a

00:30:52.329 --> 00:30:53.890
medic, then it was a medic to medic conversation.

00:30:53.990 --> 00:30:55.950
Like, Hey, I think this is what's going on. Here's

00:30:55.950 --> 00:30:59.910
what I've done. Like go forth and do good things.

00:31:00.630 --> 00:31:04.150
But it really helped me out in reverse. So when

00:31:04.150 --> 00:31:06.829
I went through the fire Academy, it was really

00:31:06.829 --> 00:31:08.849
funny. And one of my, one of my still to this

00:31:08.849 --> 00:31:11.029
day, best friends on this planet went through

00:31:11.029 --> 00:31:12.769
the fire Academy with us because I think it was

00:31:12.769 --> 00:31:14.710
like five or six people who showed up the first

00:31:14.710 --> 00:31:18.029
day. And as we got onto like month two or three,

00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:20.579
Jake and I were the only two people that survived.

00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:22.819
And Jake was very, very good at the fire service

00:31:22.819 --> 00:31:25.539
and not very good at the medicine side. And we

00:31:25.539 --> 00:31:28.000
absolutely hated each other. Like, I can't stress

00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:31.680
this enough. We hated each other when we first

00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:34.180
met. I don't know what it is, but it's one of

00:31:34.180 --> 00:31:35.619
those things where it's like you just look at

00:31:35.619 --> 00:31:37.480
somebody and you're like, no, no, I don't like

00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:40.359
this guy. We're never going to be friends. And

00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:42.259
somewhere around like the third or fourth month.

00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:44.759
Um, we both, we were the only, we looked around

00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:46.579
the room and it was just the two of us. And so

00:31:46.579 --> 00:31:48.960
whenever you're doing like drills and, you know,

00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:51.559
how do you, you know, writ team stuff and, and,

00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:54.539
uh, I'm failing because I haven't done fire in

00:31:54.539 --> 00:31:56.539
a very long time, but all the, the necessary

00:31:56.539 --> 00:32:00.559
things for, um, extra extrication or breaching,

00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:03.160
breaching, breaching, or saving your partner

00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:04.759
if they're down kind of thing. It was just two

00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:06.119
of us. That's it. It was just the two of us.

00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:08.000
And we had this wonderful little heart to heart.

00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:10.440
And I said, listen, you're not good at medicine.

00:32:10.660 --> 00:32:13.900
I am. I'm not good at fire and you are. So let's

00:32:13.900 --> 00:32:17.700
just let's make this work. And we ended up becoming

00:32:17.700 --> 00:32:20.220
very close friends. And to this day, he's still

00:32:20.220 --> 00:32:21.819
one of my closest friends. But yeah, I remember

00:32:21.819 --> 00:32:25.079
going through all of that. It's I've never served

00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:26.920
in the military. I'm not claiming that kind of

00:32:26.920 --> 00:32:29.240
relationship. But to me, it was it's got to be

00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:30.940
similar to something that you would you would

00:32:30.940 --> 00:32:32.900
go through in boot camp because both of us just

00:32:32.900 --> 00:32:37.359
became really close friends. And it's one of

00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:40.160
the. proudest things that i that i think i've

00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:42.019
had is maintaining that friendship and still

00:32:42.019 --> 00:32:44.819
to this day being able to call him and see what's

00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:46.839
going on and now he serves as the assistant chief

00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:53.180
which cracks me up um but yeah what about career

00:32:53.180 --> 00:32:55.740
calls before we progress into the ems only side

00:32:55.740 --> 00:32:57.980
that you've transitioned to what was some of

00:32:57.980 --> 00:33:00.440
the career calls in the volunteer fire department

00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:09.750
well i think For us, we were a fire service first.

00:33:09.970 --> 00:33:12.190
And so when you're talking about career calls,

00:33:12.309 --> 00:33:15.289
we would do things where we couldn't take our

00:33:15.289 --> 00:33:18.829
vehicle to the scene. The way we operated was

00:33:18.829 --> 00:33:22.470
you had to go to the firehouse, get your gear

00:33:22.470 --> 00:33:24.470
and the truck, and then take the fire truck to

00:33:24.470 --> 00:33:29.490
wherever the call was. And so learning from the

00:33:29.490 --> 00:33:32.769
fire side about seeing size up, seeing safety.

00:33:35.630 --> 00:33:38.630
And how to do an appropriate assessment of the

00:33:38.630 --> 00:33:41.589
situation before acting, before implementing

00:33:41.589 --> 00:33:45.589
a plan, to me is one of those lifelong learnings

00:33:45.589 --> 00:33:49.210
that I've taken with me all the way through the

00:33:49.210 --> 00:33:53.390
work in the administrative realms that I've had.

00:33:53.990 --> 00:33:56.710
As far as career calls, I'm trying to think of

00:33:56.710 --> 00:33:59.809
the best way to answer this question. We had

00:33:59.809 --> 00:34:02.210
lots of bad calls and lots of interesting calls.

00:34:02.329 --> 00:34:07.509
We were a very rural department. There was a

00:34:07.509 --> 00:34:10.309
few fires that we had to fight that were large

00:34:10.309 --> 00:34:13.829
industrial farmland fires that were really bad.

00:34:14.210 --> 00:34:17.769
We were, Jake, the guy I told you about, we were

00:34:17.769 --> 00:34:20.110
in a house that literally exploded because we

00:34:20.110 --> 00:34:22.710
were making entry into something. And to this

00:34:22.710 --> 00:34:25.489
day, Jake saved my life. He realized how hot

00:34:25.489 --> 00:34:27.289
the building was getting before I did and said,

00:34:27.329 --> 00:34:29.030
basically, the very short version of the story

00:34:29.030 --> 00:34:31.719
is we need to get out of here. It's hot. And

00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:34.320
as we came out of the, we, it's one of those

00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:36.320
moments where we dropped the hose and hightailed

00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:38.280
it towards the door. And as we got to the door,

00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:42.159
the whole thing flashed. And had he not been

00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:43.840
there, I wouldn't have realized it that quickly.

00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:48.139
So that call always sticks with me. We were in

00:34:48.139 --> 00:34:51.619
a barn that was burning and we, him and I were

00:34:51.619 --> 00:34:53.960
on the nozzle or I was on the nozzle and he was

00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:57.119
backing me up. It was completely pitch black.

00:34:57.219 --> 00:34:59.440
You couldn't see anything. And as we rotated,

00:34:59.579 --> 00:35:02.119
the water would hit this something, and you'd

00:35:02.119 --> 00:35:04.480
just hear this searing and this bubbling sound.

00:35:06.099 --> 00:35:08.679
Push some more water over here. Push the smoke

00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:11.099
back. You'd come over this way. You'd hear it

00:35:11.099 --> 00:35:13.539
hit something and sizzle, pop, and bubbling sound.

00:35:13.780 --> 00:35:17.820
And then we got the call that the fire had already

00:35:17.820 --> 00:35:20.190
gone through the other side, so back out. surround

00:35:20.190 --> 00:35:23.449
and drown operation so once the building finally

00:35:23.449 --> 00:35:25.710
burned down we went we went and retraced our

00:35:25.710 --> 00:35:31.070
steps and literally 15 feet from where we were

00:35:31.070 --> 00:35:32.909
standing like our boot prints were still in the

00:35:32.909 --> 00:35:35.789
mud you turn around and it was a 55 gallon drum

00:35:35.789 --> 00:35:38.289
of diesel fuel that was off gassing that we were

00:35:38.289 --> 00:35:41.929
hitting with the water so yeah those were some

00:35:41.929 --> 00:35:45.210
those were some big calls that we were on On

00:35:45.210 --> 00:35:49.170
the medical side, the interstate ran through

00:35:49.170 --> 00:35:51.789
our district, and so we would get some pretty

00:35:51.789 --> 00:35:53.710
gnarly wrecks, especially in the winter in Illinois,

00:35:53.969 --> 00:36:00.650
ice up, some really good extrication stuff. But

00:36:00.650 --> 00:36:04.170
yeah, I mean, as far as career calls go, there

00:36:04.170 --> 00:36:06.989
are those calls that just stick with you. More

00:36:06.989 --> 00:36:10.110
so, I mean, the patient outcomes are the things

00:36:10.110 --> 00:36:13.230
that you remember, but also the... The opportunities

00:36:13.230 --> 00:36:15.489
to bond with the people that you work with, to

00:36:15.489 --> 00:36:18.869
realize that like it is a it is a team that makes

00:36:18.869 --> 00:36:20.769
sure that ensures that you go home at the end

00:36:20.769 --> 00:36:22.710
of the day. And those are things that I always

00:36:22.710 --> 00:36:26.710
remember. That's the stuff that to me is important,

00:36:26.829 --> 00:36:28.449
because at the end of the day, it's about the

00:36:28.449 --> 00:36:30.829
partners that you have and everybody looking

00:36:30.829 --> 00:36:32.409
out for one another. That's that's one of the

00:36:32.409 --> 00:36:35.389
things I loved about the fire service and EMS.

00:36:36.130 --> 00:36:39.210
But it was always about, you know. You know,

00:36:39.230 --> 00:36:41.150
rule number one, you and I go home at the end

00:36:41.150 --> 00:36:42.610
of the day. Rule number two, we're going to make

00:36:42.610 --> 00:36:44.630
sure that, you know, the people we take care

00:36:44.630 --> 00:36:48.349
of get the best care they can. Absolutely. Well,

00:36:48.429 --> 00:36:50.110
you mentioned going to South Carolina for the

00:36:50.110 --> 00:36:53.030
education side. So what was different then when

00:36:53.030 --> 00:36:55.650
you found yourself in an EMS only paid department

00:36:55.650 --> 00:36:59.070
as well? That was a really big culture shock,

00:36:59.090 --> 00:37:02.300
to be honest. I'd gotten my associate's degree

00:37:02.300 --> 00:37:06.199
in biology in Springfield at Lincoln Land and

00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:09.280
then transferred to South Carolina. And when

00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:14.340
I came here, they run a county -based EMS system,

00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:16.980
which is different than anything that I had ever

00:37:16.980 --> 00:37:21.219
been exposed to. So it was government only. Not

00:37:21.219 --> 00:37:23.119
only. There was private services and still are.

00:37:23.219 --> 00:37:26.420
But I was only interested in 911. So 911 at the

00:37:26.420 --> 00:37:29.889
time was only handled by the county. And they

00:37:29.889 --> 00:37:32.449
had so much they had a lot more structure around

00:37:32.449 --> 00:37:38.690
EMS. And so standardized trucks, uniforms were

00:37:38.690 --> 00:37:42.489
the same. I'm trying to think like they had a

00:37:42.489 --> 00:37:45.630
training program that was really robust. And

00:37:45.630 --> 00:37:48.909
it was it was the first time that this sounds

00:37:48.909 --> 00:37:50.349
really bad, but it was the first time I saw it

00:37:50.349 --> 00:37:54.170
as a professional profession. Not that it wasn't

00:37:54.170 --> 00:37:56.449
in Illinois, but it was Illinois was kind of.

00:37:57.210 --> 00:37:59.469
piecemeal together. So there were only private

00:37:59.469 --> 00:38:01.349
ambulances that would do transports. They did

00:38:01.349 --> 00:38:03.769
handle 911. Most of it was in a facility. There

00:38:03.769 --> 00:38:07.190
was like four or five competing private ambulance

00:38:07.190 --> 00:38:10.670
companies. So it wasn't run in a standardized

00:38:10.670 --> 00:38:12.789
methodology. I worked for one of those companies

00:38:12.789 --> 00:38:16.409
for a very short period of time. And even the

00:38:16.409 --> 00:38:18.309
way the ambulances were stocked, different company

00:38:18.309 --> 00:38:21.480
to company. So I come to South Carolina and we

00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:24.280
would run anywhere from 10 to 14 trucks a day.

00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:26.639
And any one of those trucks I could get in and

00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:28.980
out of. And I knew exactly where the BVMs were.

00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:31.260
I knew where the drugs were and it didn't matter.

00:38:31.519 --> 00:38:34.820
So it was really fascinating to see that being

00:38:34.820 --> 00:38:40.860
organized that way. And we handled all, if not

00:38:40.860 --> 00:38:45.719
most of all the 911 in Lexington County. And

00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:48.019
to me, it was what I really wanted. It was all.

00:38:48.969 --> 00:38:51.070
It wasn't all obviously emergent. Anybody who's

00:38:51.070 --> 00:38:52.690
worked this job for more than 10 minutes knows

00:38:52.690 --> 00:38:55.070
not every call is an emergency. But it was all

00:38:55.070 --> 00:38:59.630
calls that came in via 911. And so for me, it

00:38:59.630 --> 00:39:02.469
was it was really fulfilling work. It was what

00:39:02.469 --> 00:39:05.409
I wanted to do at that point in time. And I was

00:39:05.409 --> 00:39:06.909
still I was going to college during the day.

00:39:06.969 --> 00:39:09.369
So I would work night shift on the ambulance

00:39:09.369 --> 00:39:11.489
and I would go to class during the day. And so

00:39:11.489 --> 00:39:13.369
I would have textbooks on the dashboard. I'd

00:39:13.369 --> 00:39:16.230
be doing homework in between calls and we would

00:39:16.230 --> 00:39:19.610
staff. uh, EMT paramedic. And so obviously it

00:39:19.610 --> 00:39:21.909
was anything that required ALS care. Unfortunately,

00:39:22.010 --> 00:39:24.010
it was my call. So I would have, I would have

00:39:24.010 --> 00:39:27.050
paperwork and then I would have, uh, homework.

00:39:27.170 --> 00:39:29.750
And it was just depending on what I was doing,

00:39:29.809 --> 00:39:31.809
which book I were, which, which laptop I was

00:39:31.809 --> 00:39:35.949
reaching for. So what about that period? Obviously

00:39:35.949 --> 00:39:38.809
there are a lot of scenes in code three and we'll

00:39:38.809 --> 00:39:41.909
get to that. But, um, the, again, career calls,

00:39:42.050 --> 00:39:44.550
funny calls, what are the ones that fit that

00:39:44.550 --> 00:39:47.280
chapter of your life? Well, I mean, there was,

00:39:47.320 --> 00:39:50.820
I mean, you're asking, you know, how do I condense

00:39:50.820 --> 00:39:54.400
12 years into something? And we did our best

00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:57.280
to do that with the film. But I mean, one of

00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:00.099
my favorite calls that I wrote that we didn't

00:40:00.099 --> 00:40:02.820
get into the movie because my director didn't

00:40:02.820 --> 00:40:05.820
believe it. But I think the best call I think

00:40:05.820 --> 00:40:09.900
I've ever ran, bar none, high bar here. We walk

00:40:09.900 --> 00:40:13.199
into this house. And the officer has a wooden

00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:16.460
spoon and is banging it against the washing machine.

00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:20.840
Just clang, clang, clang, clang. And by this

00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:24.079
point in time, I had known this officer. And

00:40:24.079 --> 00:40:26.639
I was just like, what are you doing? He goes,

00:40:26.780 --> 00:40:28.739
just go talk to your patient. He's sitting there

00:40:28.739 --> 00:40:30.880
slapping. He's slapping this washing machine

00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:33.239
with a wooden spoon. So we start talking to this

00:40:33.239 --> 00:40:35.699
woman. And she has suffered, unfortunately, from

00:40:35.699 --> 00:40:39.409
a mental break and believes. that there are green

00:40:39.409 --> 00:40:42.409
men coming out of the washing machine, stealing

00:40:42.409 --> 00:40:46.070
her underwear. And so it's kind of like, okay,

00:40:46.289 --> 00:40:48.550
this is nice. There's nothing medically wrong

00:40:48.550 --> 00:40:51.510
besides with her delusions. So it's not like

00:40:51.510 --> 00:40:54.730
we were worried about cardiac or anything else.

00:40:54.750 --> 00:40:56.170
We were just like, all right, well, let's get

00:40:56.170 --> 00:40:57.889
you on the stretcher and get ready to take you

00:40:57.889 --> 00:41:00.230
to the hospital and make sure, get you away from

00:41:00.230 --> 00:41:03.010
these terrible gremlins that are bothering you.

00:41:03.869 --> 00:41:06.050
And to his credit, the reason why this call stands

00:41:06.050 --> 00:41:08.309
out to me and I think is still the greatest call

00:41:08.309 --> 00:41:10.429
I've ever ran is as we're getting to the door

00:41:10.429 --> 00:41:13.809
jam, he draws his weapon and points it at the

00:41:13.809 --> 00:41:16.550
washing machine. And he goes, all right, you

00:41:16.550 --> 00:41:18.409
sons of bitches, you leave this nice lady alone

00:41:18.409 --> 00:41:20.949
and kick the door shut to the washing machine.

00:41:21.130 --> 00:41:23.829
And I'm not kidding you, this 70, 80 -year -old

00:41:23.829 --> 00:41:26.510
woman swooned in the stretch. It was just like

00:41:26.510 --> 00:41:31.699
my hero. And we took her to the hospital to go

00:41:31.699 --> 00:41:34.000
get cared for. But to me, it's one of those things

00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:36.400
where it's like compassion meets one of the funniest

00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:38.440
things I've ever seen in my life. And it meant

00:41:38.440 --> 00:41:41.900
the world to her. And so it's one of, I think,

00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:43.519
one of the greatest calls I've ever been a part

00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:46.519
of in my life. And I still rib him whenever I

00:41:46.519 --> 00:41:48.099
see him about it. You know, you still killing

00:41:48.099 --> 00:41:50.960
gremlins? He goes, no, that was the last one.

00:41:51.059 --> 00:41:56.239
I never had to deal with them again. But, yeah,

00:41:56.380 --> 00:41:58.320
that call always sticks with me. It's one of

00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:01.480
my favorites. But, you know, the other ones,

00:42:01.619 --> 00:42:04.699
too, where I had, I didn't know this at the time,

00:42:04.739 --> 00:42:09.179
but we went on a call that was fairly significant,

00:42:09.380 --> 00:42:13.719
respiratory distress, severe extremis, getting

00:42:13.719 --> 00:42:16.579
ready to bag this gentleman. We put him on CPAP

00:42:16.579 --> 00:42:20.719
instead, and he did well on CPAP. And so we take

00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:26.300
him to the hospital. First time. event with CHF.

00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:30.519
And I go to class the next day. And this person,

00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:32.260
this one of the, one of my classmates is just

00:42:32.260 --> 00:42:36.380
staring at me. And I don't know this, the student,

00:42:36.420 --> 00:42:38.579
I mean, Carolina is a big school and this was

00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:40.739
like econ one -on -one. There's like 200, 300

00:42:40.739 --> 00:42:42.739
students in this classroom. So it's not like

00:42:42.739 --> 00:42:44.539
I was friends with all of them, but this, this

00:42:44.539 --> 00:42:47.619
person's just staring at me. And so I finally

00:42:47.619 --> 00:42:49.820
go up to him and I'm like, what's going on, man?

00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:52.000
Like you've, you've been staring at me for like

00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:55.929
literally all of class. And he goes, do you work

00:42:55.929 --> 00:42:58.050
for the county? And I said, I do. He goes, did

00:42:58.050 --> 00:42:59.789
you go to this address? And I was like, I don't

00:42:59.789 --> 00:43:02.429
know, man. Like I run a million calls. You're

00:43:02.429 --> 00:43:04.630
gonna have to tell me more than an address. And

00:43:04.630 --> 00:43:06.530
he tells me about this call. And sure enough,

00:43:06.710 --> 00:43:10.730
like I had taken care of this guy, this person's

00:43:10.730 --> 00:43:13.110
father. And I was like, oh yeah, I remember that

00:43:13.110 --> 00:43:14.829
call. We got him to the hospital and you know,

00:43:14.869 --> 00:43:16.849
that was it. And I was like, why, what's up?

00:43:16.989 --> 00:43:20.289
And he just starts crying. Like just tears start

00:43:20.289 --> 00:43:24.019
shedding immediately. And I'm just standing here.

00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:25.639
I'm not in uniform. Like I said, I look like

00:43:25.639 --> 00:43:30.039
a regular college student. And this man is just

00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:32.039
crying in front of me. And I have no idea what

00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:34.599
to do. I'm just like, oh, I'm thinking, of course,

00:43:34.619 --> 00:43:36.340
I'm like, did he die? Did I do something wrong?

00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:39.320
Like, I'm making it about me as like, obviously,

00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:40.940
I should, because I'm like, oh, Jesus, what did

00:43:40.940 --> 00:43:45.699
I do wrong? And he starts, he comes, he pulls

00:43:45.699 --> 00:43:47.119
himself together. And he just says, you know,

00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:50.480
he spent almost a week in the ICU. He had to

00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:53.750
have a... open heart surgery and they had put

00:43:53.750 --> 00:43:58.150
them on ECMO and all of these things. And he's,

00:43:58.150 --> 00:44:00.690
and he's made it. And he was like, and I just

00:44:00.690 --> 00:44:02.590
want to tell you, thank you. And like, at that

00:44:02.590 --> 00:44:04.510
point I start crying. I'm like, Oh God, like

00:44:04.510 --> 00:44:07.309
not what I was expecting at all. I was kind of

00:44:07.309 --> 00:44:09.570
expecting the, like, here's you've been served.

00:44:11.210 --> 00:44:13.449
But like, I was like, Oh man, you know, that's,

00:44:13.449 --> 00:44:16.010
that's, that's really cool. And we never kept

00:44:16.010 --> 00:44:17.949
in touch. I didn't want to make it weird. I was

00:44:17.949 --> 00:44:19.650
just like, that's, I'm really glad he had a good

00:44:19.650 --> 00:44:23.539
outcome. I have no idea what happened after that.

00:44:23.940 --> 00:44:26.000
But that was always one of those things where

00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:28.460
it was just, to me, it was one of those, it was

00:44:28.460 --> 00:44:30.159
a Tuesday, right? Like it was a run of the mill

00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:33.139
call. I'm glad we could help out. But to be able

00:44:33.139 --> 00:44:37.599
to see the after effects of what you did was

00:44:37.599 --> 00:44:41.820
really moving to me in a way that I still think

00:44:41.820 --> 00:44:47.280
about. To me, it's really important. And then

00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:50.639
there's, you know, the darker side of stupidity

00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:54.119
that happens in EMS. There was, I had a call

00:44:54.119 --> 00:44:59.260
where a really significantly sick child, infant,

00:44:59.460 --> 00:45:03.840
maybe three months old, and walk in and we're

00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:06.239
at the opposite end of the county from a hospital.

00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:09.780
So it's 45 minutes running hot, no matter what.

00:45:09.820 --> 00:45:11.300
Like there's no way, unless you get a helicopter

00:45:11.300 --> 00:45:14.920
involved, like it's a long transport. Kids head

00:45:14.920 --> 00:45:18.039
bobbing, snoring, it's bad. Grabbed the kid.

00:45:18.139 --> 00:45:19.519
I was like, we're not wasting time. Let's go

00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:23.639
hustle off to the truck and start laying out

00:45:23.639 --> 00:45:25.820
all my equipment, getting ready to go. And it

00:45:25.820 --> 00:45:27.559
was one of those funny moments where I talked

00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:29.300
to this three -month -old. And I just remember

00:45:29.300 --> 00:45:30.780
telling this kid, I go, listen, if your heart

00:45:30.780 --> 00:45:32.400
rate drops below 60, I'm going to drill a hole

00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:34.539
in your leg. And the kid just nodded. And I was

00:45:34.539 --> 00:45:40.079
like, cool, we're on the same page. And so nebulizing

00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:42.000
and all the things that you do to make sure that

00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:43.320
they have a good outcome, trying to start an

00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:46.599
IV on them. And I just realized like, I need

00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:49.280
to suction this kid out. And so I, you know,

00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:51.559
start going through all the equipment and, you

00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:53.500
know, all I got in there is a French catheter

00:45:53.500 --> 00:45:56.500
that's eight feet long and kinked and just doesn't

00:45:56.500 --> 00:46:00.300
work. And it dawns on me, we have a bulb syringe,

00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:04.079
but it's in the OB kit. So I was like, perfect.

00:46:04.119 --> 00:46:05.659
That's exactly what I need and what I want. I

00:46:05.659 --> 00:46:08.019
grabbed the OB kit, tear it open, find the suction

00:46:08.019 --> 00:46:13.119
kit out. We get to the hospital. kid marginally

00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:15.619
better still very very sick did not have to innovate

00:46:15.619 --> 00:46:18.380
him thankfully uh did not have to start an io

00:46:18.380 --> 00:46:22.199
on this poor child um but i was able to start

00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:25.719
a line on him uh and you know all the things

00:46:25.719 --> 00:46:27.239
that you know you get to put your cape on and

00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:31.219
feel like a good boy for um get done get a high

00:46:31.219 --> 00:46:33.039
five from the doctor i believe the child had

00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:36.099
pneumonia or something it was bad um three or

00:46:36.099 --> 00:46:39.789
four days later i get a phone call uh from one

00:46:39.789 --> 00:46:42.190
of the administrators at where I worked. And

00:46:42.190 --> 00:46:44.289
I get this phone call. That's like, what were

00:46:44.289 --> 00:46:47.289
you thinking? There's no context, right? Like

00:46:47.289 --> 00:46:48.889
that's how the phone call starts. And I was like,

00:46:48.969 --> 00:46:51.769
uh, what are you talking about? And he's, he

00:46:51.769 --> 00:46:53.789
had this pediatric call while water was like,

00:46:53.849 --> 00:46:55.469
Oh yeah, I remember that call. I got a high five

00:46:55.469 --> 00:46:57.510
from the ER doc. Like that's, that's what I,

00:46:57.530 --> 00:47:00.170
you know, what we live for. You opened up an

00:47:00.170 --> 00:47:03.199
OB kit. Why? Because I needed a bulb syringe.

00:47:03.519 --> 00:47:06.320
Do you know how expensive bulb syringes or OB

00:47:06.320 --> 00:47:08.559
kits are? We had to restock an entire OB kit.

00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:11.800
And like, that's the kind of stuff where I just

00:47:11.800 --> 00:47:15.059
check out. I'm like, no, this is, we did everything

00:47:15.059 --> 00:47:16.619
right. We had a good outcome. And I'm getting

00:47:16.619 --> 00:47:20.880
yelled at because OB kits are expensive. That

00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:22.980
conversation kept going for probably about 15

00:47:22.980 --> 00:47:25.340
minutes and it ended with me being not so polite,

00:47:25.480 --> 00:47:27.440
telling them to stock bulb syringes outside of

00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:30.559
the OB kit if their primary concern was the cost

00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:34.079
of the OB kit. Well, I want to get to that because

00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:36.019
I know you found yourself more on the admin side,

00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:38.260
but just before we do, because it's a topic that

00:47:38.260 --> 00:47:40.860
the film definitely hits, which I love the way

00:47:40.860 --> 00:47:44.159
it does it amongst the comedy, but is the mental

00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:46.119
health conversation, the burnout, et cetera.

00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:50.630
Prior to you going to the admin side, What was

00:47:50.630 --> 00:47:53.230
your experience as far as the impact of the job

00:47:53.230 --> 00:47:55.329
on your physical and or mental health at that

00:47:55.329 --> 00:47:58.909
point? I mean, it was bad. I've been very open

00:47:58.909 --> 00:48:02.510
about my struggle with burnout and my journey

00:48:02.510 --> 00:48:05.769
through it. And I tell people too, like if people

00:48:05.769 --> 00:48:09.389
knew me in the early 2000s, like I was not a

00:48:09.389 --> 00:48:14.469
nice person. I was very burnt out. I was difficult

00:48:14.469 --> 00:48:17.389
to be around. I'm very fortunate. I've also...

00:48:17.679 --> 00:48:21.219
said this too i i was very fortunate that i never

00:48:21.219 --> 00:48:23.619
struggled with drug addiction or suicidality

00:48:23.619 --> 00:48:25.539
or stuff like that and that doesn't make me better

00:48:25.539 --> 00:48:28.639
stronger whatever than anybody who does i was

00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:31.460
just very fortunate that i i was just a callous

00:48:31.460 --> 00:48:39.460
cynical sarcastic asshole um for part of it especially

00:48:39.460 --> 00:48:44.360
when you got me going um but for me it's it was

00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:47.860
about like the little things that i felt just

00:48:47.860 --> 00:48:50.219
kept becoming insurmountable right like the bulb

00:48:50.219 --> 00:48:54.059
syringe thing the you know the the pay certainly

00:48:54.059 --> 00:48:56.059
was a problem it was all of these things that

00:48:56.059 --> 00:49:00.639
continued to get layered uh and it was difficult

00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:03.239
i was lucky one of my roommates uh liked to work

00:49:03.239 --> 00:49:05.039
out so we would do that and we worked opposite

00:49:05.039 --> 00:49:07.559
shift so thankfully we never worked together

00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:10.099
we were just roommates but like every day at

00:49:10.099 --> 00:49:11.519
like two o 'clock we both worked night shift

00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:14.219
which was great at like two o 'clock in the afternoon

00:49:14.219 --> 00:49:17.280
right after you got up we would force each other

00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:19.400
to go to the gym. And so we would go work out.

00:49:19.420 --> 00:49:21.619
So from a physical health standpoint, I was probably

00:49:21.619 --> 00:49:25.000
a little bit better. But from an emotional mental

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:28.119
health standpoint, it wasn't. It was a lot of

00:49:28.119 --> 00:49:32.480
self -blame, a lot of anger. And back then, again,

00:49:32.719 --> 00:49:36.780
early, late 90s, early 2000s, like asking for

00:49:36.780 --> 00:49:39.559
help was weakness. It always was. And one of

00:49:39.559 --> 00:49:42.400
the things that we put in the movie that unfortunately

00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:45.829
got cut. It was a very real conversation I had

00:49:45.829 --> 00:49:49.369
with one of my supervisors where I was using

00:49:49.369 --> 00:49:51.250
the words burnt out. I went up to them and I

00:49:51.250 --> 00:49:55.909
just said, hey, I was always very good at IVs.

00:49:55.909 --> 00:49:57.710
For whatever reason, that was one of the skill

00:49:57.710 --> 00:49:59.809
sets I was very gifted with. Didn't matter if

00:49:59.809 --> 00:50:03.150
you were a diabetic or on dialysis, I could usually

00:50:03.150 --> 00:50:05.730
get a stick on anybody. And for like a week straight,

00:50:05.869 --> 00:50:08.400
I couldn't do it. And I remember going up to

00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:10.780
this person and I've told this story before.

00:50:10.860 --> 00:50:12.920
And the reason I don't name names is I'm not

00:50:12.920 --> 00:50:15.199
mad at them. They did not have a better answer.

00:50:15.420 --> 00:50:18.320
So this is not like they are broken. They're

00:50:18.320 --> 00:50:21.159
terrible supervisors, leaders, whatever. And

00:50:21.159 --> 00:50:24.360
that I'm in the wrong or they're in the wrong.

00:50:24.460 --> 00:50:26.840
They didn't have a better answer. But I went

00:50:26.840 --> 00:50:29.019
to them and I just said, listen, I think I'm

00:50:29.019 --> 00:50:31.719
burning out. And I just, I don't know what's

00:50:31.719 --> 00:50:33.440
what. I was like, I can't start an IV. I can't

00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:36.099
hit the broadside of a barn. And that person

00:50:36.099 --> 00:50:39.360
just. chuckle just started to laugh almost uncontrollably

00:50:39.360 --> 00:50:41.440
and said we're all burnt out get back on the

00:50:41.440 --> 00:50:43.739
truck and that was the first and only time i

00:50:43.739 --> 00:50:45.900
ever asked for help and so then that just starts

00:50:45.900 --> 00:50:49.059
to compound uh on everything else and so it was

00:50:49.059 --> 00:50:52.239
kind of like this this is my burden to bear kind

00:50:52.239 --> 00:50:54.300
of thing like i'm doing all of this so society

00:50:54.300 --> 00:50:57.280
can function uh and it's not about it was never

00:50:57.280 --> 00:50:59.559
a god complex or superhero complex but it was

00:50:59.559 --> 00:51:02.760
just at the time it felt like a realization like

00:51:02.760 --> 00:51:06.940
yeah this doesn't get better and There are people

00:51:06.940 --> 00:51:12.659
that that gets very, very dark and very depressing

00:51:12.659 --> 00:51:15.059
and leads to a lot of negative outcomes. Like

00:51:15.059 --> 00:51:18.300
I've said before, I've had six co -workers, not

00:51:18.300 --> 00:51:20.539
just at that location, and I'm not besmirching

00:51:20.539 --> 00:51:23.099
in one place, but over my lifetime, I've lost

00:51:23.099 --> 00:51:25.699
six co -workers to suicide. Seven, sorry, seven.

00:51:27.070 --> 00:51:29.610
And so I don't want to see that number grow.

00:51:29.769 --> 00:51:31.989
And I'm a huge advocate of whatever we can do

00:51:31.989 --> 00:51:33.510
to help the people out there still doing the

00:51:33.510 --> 00:51:35.429
job. Because I don't want anybody to have the

00:51:35.429 --> 00:51:38.170
answer that was given to me. And again, not their

00:51:38.170 --> 00:51:40.269
fault. The resources have gotten much better,

00:51:40.329 --> 00:51:44.829
but we still have a problem. In all the conversations

00:51:44.829 --> 00:51:47.909
I've had over the last nine years, I've become

00:51:47.909 --> 00:51:50.730
a perpetual student. And it's just the Venn diagram

00:51:50.730 --> 00:51:54.280
is overlined so... powerfully on what the main

00:51:54.280 --> 00:51:56.679
issues are and you know unaddressed childhood

00:51:56.679 --> 00:51:59.400
issues you know struggles trauma etc that we

00:51:59.400 --> 00:52:02.480
bring into the job of absolutely a part of it

00:52:02.480 --> 00:52:06.260
um you know what we see a part of it sleep deprivation

00:52:06.260 --> 00:52:08.559
massive part of it if you look at the correlation

00:52:08.559 --> 00:52:12.139
with that and mental health but one of the the

00:52:12.139 --> 00:52:15.559
most um under what's the right word i always

00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:17.679
Brain farts in the middle of these conversations.

00:52:18.159 --> 00:52:21.099
Under -recognized elements is also organizational

00:52:21.099 --> 00:52:24.079
stress or even organizational betrayal. And I

00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:26.599
think that's where, you know, especially in EMS

00:52:26.599 --> 00:52:28.559
only when you work in the hospitals, now you've

00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:30.619
got this profit side and you've got the people

00:52:30.619 --> 00:52:33.860
that are trying to save lives. And there's this

00:52:33.860 --> 00:52:37.079
moral injury where, you know, poor decisions

00:52:37.079 --> 00:52:40.199
by leadership in fire EMS or the healthcare system

00:52:40.199 --> 00:52:44.320
are negatively affecting the ability for the

00:52:44.799 --> 00:52:47.019
medics and doctors and nurses to simply do their

00:52:47.019 --> 00:52:50.940
job. Absolutely. And I think that's the right

00:52:50.940 --> 00:52:53.519
angle for it. I was reading something recently

00:52:53.519 --> 00:52:55.440
and it's like, if you call it burnout, it ends

00:52:55.440 --> 00:52:57.260
up becoming a place of blame on the provider

00:52:57.260 --> 00:52:59.519
versus moral injury, where there are circumstances

00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:02.519
and logistics that are way outside of your control

00:53:02.519 --> 00:53:05.179
that are inhibiting you from being able to deliver

00:53:05.179 --> 00:53:07.059
the care that you know they need or that you

00:53:07.059 --> 00:53:10.780
want to be able to deliver. And to me, I think

00:53:10.780 --> 00:53:13.099
that's the right way to look at it. And I will

00:53:13.099 --> 00:53:16.099
give grace to administration too. Nobody gets

00:53:16.099 --> 00:53:18.239
into this job going, all I want to do is save

00:53:18.239 --> 00:53:20.940
money and make sure everybody dies. We're not

00:53:20.940 --> 00:53:26.000
cartoon villains. There are a myriad of small,

00:53:26.400 --> 00:53:29.719
what seemingly are independent decisions that

00:53:29.719 --> 00:53:32.380
cause problems in the grand scheme of things.

00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:37.119
So what made you ultimately pull the trigger

00:53:37.119 --> 00:53:40.219
as far as transitioning away from an actual working

00:53:40.219 --> 00:53:42.659
paramedic to getting into the other side, the

00:53:42.659 --> 00:53:45.760
management administration side? I was very, very

00:53:45.760 --> 00:53:49.679
lucky. And so what happened to me was I went

00:53:49.679 --> 00:53:51.880
to grad school. I was still on the ambulance

00:53:51.880 --> 00:53:54.420
in grad school, getting my master's in healthcare

00:53:54.420 --> 00:53:58.860
administration. And I was always interested in

00:53:58.860 --> 00:54:05.239
doing emergency preparedness or doing something

00:54:05.239 --> 00:54:06.960
in that vein, either emergency preparedness,

00:54:07.260 --> 00:54:10.039
emergency response type stuff. And that was where

00:54:10.039 --> 00:54:12.559
I was. And I had the opportunity to do basically

00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:16.030
an internship in rural health policy, which is

00:54:16.030 --> 00:54:18.050
the first time I'd ever done policy work. So

00:54:18.050 --> 00:54:20.369
I spent, I'd call it about eight months in this

00:54:20.369 --> 00:54:23.210
rural health policy center, which was fascinating,

00:54:23.349 --> 00:54:26.510
opened my eyes up to that kind of work. And then

00:54:26.510 --> 00:54:30.690
the thing that really clicked with me was how

00:54:30.690 --> 00:54:34.250
do we make sure that the patients understand

00:54:34.250 --> 00:54:37.409
the care that they're getting? And I was also

00:54:37.409 --> 00:54:40.570
deeply interested in PIO work when I actually

00:54:40.570 --> 00:54:43.389
interned as the PIO for Lexington County for

00:54:43.389 --> 00:54:46.050
a summer. and really loved that job my undergrads

00:54:46.050 --> 00:54:49.090
in public relations like i enjoy writing and

00:54:49.090 --> 00:54:51.190
speaking and educating and things like that so

00:54:51.190 --> 00:54:55.329
to me that was always a natural fit but what

00:54:55.329 --> 00:54:57.570
happened was the last semester of grad school

00:54:57.570 --> 00:55:03.469
i met a hospital ceo that was deeply ingrained

00:55:03.469 --> 00:55:05.789
in something called student group and their their

00:55:05.789 --> 00:55:09.000
company that the listeners have never heard of.

00:55:09.079 --> 00:55:11.099
They quite literally wrote the book on patient

00:55:11.099 --> 00:55:13.920
experience and employee engagement for hospitals.

00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:16.800
And Quinn Studer is the guy that wrote the book,

00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:19.159
Hardwiring Excellence, still an excellent read.

00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:23.059
I still highly recommend it. And as a young and

00:55:23.059 --> 00:55:27.099
dumb college student, in the back of his first

00:55:27.099 --> 00:55:29.260
generation of the book had his email address

00:55:29.260 --> 00:55:31.539
and I'd read the book for some class. And I was

00:55:31.539 --> 00:55:34.420
like, Dear Quinn, I'm a grad student at Carolina.

00:55:34.840 --> 00:55:38.039
I need a, I need a master's level project to

00:55:38.039 --> 00:55:41.280
finish my, my degree. Do you basically, do you

00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:44.579
need a grad student? I still have the email.

00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:48.000
It just was one word back. Sure. And then contact

00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:53.360
HR. And so that's how I got started at inpatient

00:55:53.360 --> 00:55:56.179
experience. So I, I, you know, I called the HR

00:55:56.179 --> 00:55:57.840
lady at the company and I said, Hey, I got this

00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:00.739
email back from Clint. Is this something that's

00:56:00.739 --> 00:56:03.460
real or is he just going through a million emails

00:56:03.460 --> 00:56:06.500
that day? And I got very fortunate. I was the

00:56:06.500 --> 00:56:08.880
first ever grad student that a student group

00:56:08.880 --> 00:56:13.679
hired. And I got to see firsthand the administrative

00:56:13.679 --> 00:56:16.139
processes that are put in place in order for

00:56:16.139 --> 00:56:19.099
clinicians to be successful, specifically in

00:56:19.099 --> 00:56:22.219
the realm of patient communications and patient

00:56:22.219 --> 00:56:25.639
experience. And really when that company was

00:56:25.639 --> 00:56:28.650
on the come up. So I spent. six months almost

00:56:28.650 --> 00:56:32.570
with them. And I was shadowing arguably one of

00:56:32.570 --> 00:56:34.650
the most important consultants in the field.

00:56:34.690 --> 00:56:37.329
For anybody who's listening that's ever heard

00:56:37.329 --> 00:56:40.030
of the ADET, which is a healthcare mnemonic,

00:56:40.110 --> 00:56:42.710
this man wrote the ADET. And so I was able to

00:56:42.710 --> 00:56:46.349
learn directly from him. And that really set

00:56:46.349 --> 00:56:50.269
my path on fire. So I've never worked administratively

00:56:50.269 --> 00:56:52.909
for any EMS system. I've only worked in hospital

00:56:52.909 --> 00:56:56.659
and healthcare systems. But that was really where

00:56:56.659 --> 00:57:01.599
my career took a sharp right turn. In fact, when

00:57:01.599 --> 00:57:04.440
I got my first job in California as a manager

00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:07.239
of service excellence for a hospital, I still

00:57:07.239 --> 00:57:10.579
worked on the ambulance. I had two jobs. And

00:57:10.579 --> 00:57:13.300
the job that I had taken in the hospital was

00:57:13.300 --> 00:57:16.119
paying much more handsomely than EMS ever could.

00:57:16.860 --> 00:57:19.260
But I was always nervous. I'd always worked two

00:57:19.260 --> 00:57:22.500
jobs. And my boss at the hospital called me in

00:57:22.500 --> 00:57:24.460
and he said, look, I know you're still working

00:57:24.460 --> 00:57:27.420
weekends over at the ambulance company. You can't

00:57:27.420 --> 00:57:29.880
do that anymore. Like, I need you here. You know,

00:57:29.940 --> 00:57:32.960
it's your choice to make. Like, you either work

00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:34.639
there or you work here. I can't have you working

00:57:34.639 --> 00:57:38.909
both. He was a great boss, fantastic boss, still

00:57:38.909 --> 00:57:41.469
one of my one of my early mentors and friends

00:57:41.469 --> 00:57:44.530
to this day. And I handed him my paramedic card,

00:57:44.610 --> 00:57:46.570
my California paramedic card. And I said, you

00:57:46.570 --> 00:57:47.989
know, if I ask for this again, you have to fire

00:57:47.989 --> 00:57:50.969
me. He said, all right. And that's when I that's

00:57:50.969 --> 00:57:55.090
when I officially left EMS and started working

00:57:55.090 --> 00:57:57.929
full time administratively in hospitals. But

00:57:57.929 --> 00:58:01.829
that was that was how I got there. It was. I

00:58:01.829 --> 00:58:04.269
always imagined that I would go be a PIO and

00:58:04.269 --> 00:58:05.630
stand in front of a camera and go, you know,

00:58:05.630 --> 00:58:07.869
here's where the cloud is. Don't go to the cloud,

00:58:07.949 --> 00:58:12.909
you know, and then was lucky enough to fall into

00:58:12.909 --> 00:58:14.630
consulting. And that's something that I really

00:58:14.630 --> 00:58:17.369
had a passion for because it got to combine what

00:58:17.369 --> 00:58:19.409
I was really passionate about, making sure patients

00:58:19.409 --> 00:58:21.269
get good care, making sure they get communicated

00:58:21.269 --> 00:58:23.610
to, making sure we're demystifying medicine and

00:58:23.610 --> 00:58:27.179
I get to teach. So it was this. lovely Venn diagram

00:58:27.179 --> 00:58:32.059
of what speaks to me. And I did that for, what,

00:58:32.199 --> 00:58:37.880
20, 10, 14 years until the movie came out. Well,

00:58:37.960 --> 00:58:39.340
before we go to the movie, which I definitely

00:58:39.340 --> 00:58:42.320
want to take a deep dive into, if you were king

00:58:42.320 --> 00:58:45.699
for a day, having such a nuanced view of healthcare,

00:58:45.860 --> 00:58:48.840
the pre -hospital world, and then the management

00:58:48.840 --> 00:58:53.639
and the patient care world in that setting, What

00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:57.159
would you change to improve healthcare in America?

00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:02.480
Universal healthcare. I mean, the easy answer,

00:59:02.579 --> 00:59:04.300
right? The very simple answer is, well, just

00:59:04.300 --> 00:59:06.480
increase pay and everything gets better. Yes,

00:59:06.519 --> 00:59:10.099
comma. You can't increase pay in this current

00:59:10.099 --> 00:59:12.260
climate without talking about reimbursement rates,

00:59:12.360 --> 00:59:15.840
the way that EMS is handled by both state, federal,

00:59:15.860 --> 00:59:19.019
and insurance companies. And so the quickest

00:59:19.019 --> 00:59:21.909
way to get there is universal healthcare. And

00:59:21.909 --> 00:59:24.510
there is a way to do it. I don't claim to I like

00:59:24.510 --> 00:59:27.210
I don't have the binder that says if you do it

00:59:27.210 --> 00:59:29.869
this way, health care gets fixed. But there are

00:59:29.869 --> 00:59:33.130
systematic issues that are being held together

00:59:33.130 --> 00:59:36.389
by duct tape and chicken wire that fundamentally

00:59:36.389 --> 00:59:39.469
need to be readdressed. And I have always been

00:59:39.469 --> 00:59:42.469
an advocate of the U .S. health care system is

00:59:42.469 --> 00:59:44.449
completely broken. It does not work the way it's

00:59:44.449 --> 00:59:46.630
supposed to. It does not deliver better care.

00:59:47.190 --> 00:59:50.530
We could prove that. quantitatively and qualitatively

00:59:50.530 --> 00:59:53.670
than other first world nations out there so we

00:59:53.670 --> 00:59:57.349
there are glaring uh red sirens everywhere so

00:59:57.349 --> 00:59:59.710
i am of the belief that we need to blow it up

00:59:59.710 --> 01:00:02.309
and fix it from the ground up and we have we

01:00:02.309 --> 01:00:06.349
have the ability to do so but it takes dedicated

01:00:06.349 --> 01:00:09.429
work and the understanding that you are not going

01:00:09.429 --> 01:00:11.750
to get the benefits from all even if i changed

01:00:11.750 --> 01:00:14.269
it today those benefits aren't going to be seen

01:00:14.269 --> 01:00:19.440
for five or ten years it's so It's interesting

01:00:19.440 --> 01:00:23.699
slash maddening that the principles behind so

01:00:23.699 --> 01:00:27.119
many solutions are really very, very simple if

01:00:27.119 --> 01:00:29.300
you look at it. I had a conversation the other

01:00:29.300 --> 01:00:32.239
day, I forget who it was now, and I think it

01:00:32.239 --> 01:00:34.840
was a physician, and he was talking about healthcare

01:00:34.840 --> 01:00:39.099
is 20 % of our GDP in this country, which is

01:00:39.099 --> 01:00:42.750
an insane amount. So, you know, where's the money?

01:00:42.809 --> 01:00:45.269
There is all this money. And if you look at something

01:00:45.269 --> 01:00:46.889
that I talk about a lot at the moment on the

01:00:46.889 --> 01:00:50.070
first responder side, it's changing the firefighter

01:00:50.070 --> 01:00:53.750
work week to a 24 -72, a healthy 42 -hour work

01:00:53.750 --> 01:00:55.989
week. And people, again, well, how are we going

01:00:55.989 --> 01:00:57.710
to hire all these people? It's like, well, how

01:00:57.710 --> 01:00:59.590
much do you spend on overtime? How much do you

01:00:59.590 --> 01:01:01.789
lose on lack of retention? How much is your workman's

01:01:01.789 --> 01:01:04.050
comp premiums, line of duty, death payments,

01:01:04.190 --> 01:01:07.130
medical disabilities? lawsuits on mistakes that

01:01:07.130 --> 01:01:09.389
overworked firefighters and paramedics make.

01:01:09.650 --> 01:01:13.190
There is your money. And I always use the healthcare

01:01:13.190 --> 01:01:16.949
system as a comparison when you look at the UK.

01:01:17.349 --> 01:01:20.409
I grew up, I'm a 70s child. So I grew up when

01:01:20.409 --> 01:01:23.130
the NHS was still doing very well and it was

01:01:23.130 --> 01:01:25.670
fully supported. And most importantly, I would

01:01:25.670 --> 01:01:28.090
argue that the nation was very healthy. Aside

01:01:28.090 --> 01:01:31.170
from cigarettes, as far as obesity, we really

01:01:31.170 --> 01:01:32.909
didn't have much of anything. We had the builders

01:01:32.909 --> 01:01:34.429
that had a bit of a beer belly. That was it.

01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:37.760
But that's been picked apart and the American

01:01:37.760 --> 01:01:40.320
kind of model has been pushed on them. And then

01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:45.619
the value of a healthy society hasn't been prioritized.

01:01:45.619 --> 01:01:48.179
So as British people have got fatter and sicker,

01:01:48.199 --> 01:01:50.019
obviously it's strained the health care system.

01:01:50.320 --> 01:01:53.280
And I think the most beautiful win -win of national

01:01:53.280 --> 01:01:56.960
health is not only a beautiful altruistic model

01:01:56.960 --> 01:02:00.360
where you all roll your sleeves up a nation and

01:02:00.360 --> 01:02:02.780
say, we'll all go to work. And when you need.

01:02:03.320 --> 01:02:04.980
The help, we'll give it to you. You're pregnant,

01:02:05.059 --> 01:02:06.420
you're going to have a baby, here we go, we'll

01:02:06.420 --> 01:02:07.860
take care of you. You're elderly, we'll take

01:02:07.860 --> 01:02:09.400
care of you. You got hit by a bus, we'll take

01:02:09.400 --> 01:02:13.079
care of you. But it also then, I think the main

01:02:13.079 --> 01:02:15.139
motivation is to make the nation healthy because

01:02:15.139 --> 01:02:17.900
if you've got a tax -based universal healthcare

01:02:17.900 --> 01:02:21.260
system, now the fewer patients, the better, the

01:02:21.260 --> 01:02:23.500
more resources and doctors and nurses and beds

01:02:23.500 --> 01:02:25.119
that you have for the people that really need

01:02:25.119 --> 01:02:28.739
it. So the money is there. As we know, as you've

01:02:28.739 --> 01:02:31.300
said, we spend so much and actually comparatively

01:02:31.300 --> 01:02:34.059
have a worse healthcare system than most of the

01:02:34.059 --> 01:02:38.260
world. So it's just taking that downstream money

01:02:38.260 --> 01:02:41.380
and front -loading it into a system. Because

01:02:41.380 --> 01:02:44.800
people have no concept in this country what it's

01:02:44.800 --> 01:02:47.300
like to have some sort of treatment, go to hospital

01:02:47.300 --> 01:02:50.880
in the UK, for example, and just walk out. Not

01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:52.900
think, how am I going to pay the tens or hundreds

01:02:52.900 --> 01:02:54.760
of thousands of dollars back because I have the

01:02:54.760 --> 01:02:58.280
audacity to have cancer or need a cath? So I

01:02:58.280 --> 01:03:00.880
couldn't agree more coming from the UK now being

01:03:00.880 --> 01:03:04.780
in America for 20 plus years. I think that's

01:03:04.780 --> 01:03:06.760
a solution as well. But it takes courage, doesn't

01:03:06.760 --> 01:03:09.280
it? To get past the egos and the knee jerks and

01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:12.079
get people to see just the common sense of the

01:03:12.079 --> 01:03:15.840
mathematics behind it. Absolutely. And this isn't

01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:18.480
like Patrick's not a capitalist. Not that I would

01:03:18.480 --> 01:03:21.519
worry defending myself here because, again, I've

01:03:21.519 --> 01:03:23.380
got science to back me up on it. But to your

01:03:23.380 --> 01:03:26.199
point exactly, people will start to say immediately.

01:03:28.139 --> 01:03:30.760
Do you have any idea how much this costs? And

01:03:30.760 --> 01:03:32.940
it's like, do you realize how much we're spending

01:03:32.940 --> 01:03:36.000
now? Like Medicare and Medicaid are going to

01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:39.619
run out of money because lots of issues. And

01:03:39.619 --> 01:03:41.380
to be absolutely clear to anybody listening,

01:03:41.619 --> 01:03:43.719
this is not like there's one simple solution.

01:03:43.880 --> 01:03:45.420
You flick a light switch and that's the problem.

01:03:46.340 --> 01:03:50.019
It's myriads of systemic problems that, like

01:03:50.019 --> 01:03:53.539
you said, were born out of, I would argue, people's

01:03:53.539 --> 01:03:56.199
best interests. that balloon and circle out of

01:03:56.199 --> 01:03:59.099
control. Now, there are huge issues that started

01:03:59.099 --> 01:04:02.000
even the year that I was born, the Ronald Reagan

01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:04.079
administration, when he deregulated healthcare,

01:04:04.219 --> 01:04:06.940
that started a cacophony of issues that to this

01:04:06.940 --> 01:04:09.579
day need to be remedied. But yeah, if people

01:04:09.579 --> 01:04:13.440
could stomach the fact that this is going to

01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:15.579
hurt and it's going to be better in the long

01:04:15.579 --> 01:04:17.780
run, there is a chance that in your lifetime,

01:04:17.860 --> 01:04:20.039
you will see small benefits, but generations

01:04:20.039 --> 01:04:24.829
after you will be better off. Yeah. Like I said,

01:04:24.849 --> 01:04:26.510
I'm not smart enough to be able to tell you I've

01:04:26.510 --> 01:04:28.690
got the answer to all of it, but I do know there's

01:04:28.690 --> 01:04:31.289
a path forward that works for arguably every

01:04:31.289 --> 01:04:34.389
other country in the world. So we are not that

01:04:34.389 --> 01:04:37.989
special. Well, this is the thing. I'll give you

01:04:37.989 --> 01:04:39.610
the perfect example. The firefighter helmet.

01:04:40.010 --> 01:04:45.469
There is an absolute refusal to change the helmet.

01:04:46.010 --> 01:04:49.070
And there's this confusion with that being tradition

01:04:49.070 --> 01:04:51.429
and all that stuff. It's like, no, it's a hat.

01:04:52.159 --> 01:04:54.539
like once that was the latest greatest thing

01:04:54.539 --> 01:04:56.539
it was the newest thing you know before people

01:04:56.539 --> 01:04:58.039
weren't wearing helmet like what are you a pussy

01:04:58.039 --> 01:05:00.340
you're gonna buy a helmet you know now all of

01:05:00.340 --> 01:05:02.599
a sudden we're romanticizing this helmet is literally

01:05:02.599 --> 01:05:06.059
about 90 years old by that point and that is

01:05:06.059 --> 01:05:09.159
not you know that is not the the latest and greatest

01:05:09.159 --> 01:05:11.800
and and you know people make fun of the european

01:05:11.800 --> 01:05:13.380
helmets i'm like all right well then make an

01:05:13.380 --> 01:05:16.179
american version if you need to develop the latest

01:05:16.179 --> 01:05:18.679
greatest in america that's fine but for fuck's

01:05:18.679 --> 01:05:22.000
sake make it Don't just lean on this one and

01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:24.820
say, oh, you know, I'll wear this till I die

01:05:24.820 --> 01:05:26.780
because you will because it's shit and it is

01:05:26.780 --> 01:05:29.320
full of carcinogens and all the things. And it's

01:05:29.320 --> 01:05:31.320
the same thing, that resistance to change because

01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:35.199
of this arguably narcissistic, ego -driven facade

01:05:35.199 --> 01:05:37.599
that you are the greatest country in the world

01:05:37.599 --> 01:05:39.900
and everything that we do is better than anyone

01:05:39.900 --> 01:05:43.280
else rather than going, there are areas of what

01:05:43.280 --> 01:05:45.199
we do in our culture that are phenomenal and

01:05:45.199 --> 01:05:47.079
there are areas that we do that aren't so good.

01:05:47.599 --> 01:05:50.480
And 70 % of the nation being obese or overweight

01:05:50.480 --> 01:05:53.099
is a good example that maybe not everything that

01:05:53.099 --> 01:05:54.980
we're doing is working properly. The fact that

01:05:54.980 --> 01:05:56.699
our children have to rehearse their murders in

01:05:56.699 --> 01:05:59.179
their schools, maybe it's not the greatest thing.

01:05:59.280 --> 01:06:01.920
So having the humility to say, all right, the

01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:05.329
UK. Not even now, like what was the original

01:06:05.329 --> 01:06:07.809
plan of the NHS and how did it go wrong for you?

01:06:07.869 --> 01:06:10.070
And what can we do to make it better? You know,

01:06:10.090 --> 01:06:11.789
Norway, tell me about your prisons, Portugal,

01:06:12.030 --> 01:06:14.329
drug decriminalization, Finland, your education

01:06:14.329 --> 01:06:17.389
system. And if we just had the humility to look

01:06:17.389 --> 01:06:19.250
at other countries that are doing things well,

01:06:19.349 --> 01:06:22.389
arguably better than us, then the rising tide

01:06:22.389 --> 01:06:24.469
lifts all ships and we will improve the things

01:06:24.469 --> 01:06:26.789
that need improving too. But as you said, if

01:06:26.789 --> 01:06:29.349
we're ego driven, we're just going to keep sinking.

01:06:30.570 --> 01:06:32.550
I agree. And I think part of that goes all the

01:06:32.550 --> 01:06:35.030
way back to, again, I have a very unique outlook

01:06:35.030 --> 01:06:38.070
because I'm first generation. I had the opportunity

01:06:38.070 --> 01:06:42.230
to go to multiple countries as part of my growing

01:06:42.230 --> 01:06:46.849
up. And so I didn't have the nationalist streak.

01:06:46.929 --> 01:06:49.690
I'm certainly patriotic and grateful that I'm

01:06:49.690 --> 01:06:52.730
an American, but I didn't suffer from the, we're

01:06:52.730 --> 01:06:54.630
the only country and we're the only ones that

01:06:54.630 --> 01:06:57.309
get it right. So I think there's a distinct line

01:06:57.309 --> 01:07:00.769
there. But the other thing, too, is like I remember,

01:07:00.969 --> 01:07:03.550
again, like six years old, kindergarten, first

01:07:03.550 --> 01:07:05.429
grade, whatever. And I was like, I'm Canadian,

01:07:05.670 --> 01:07:10.010
you know, go Canada. That doesn't play well in

01:07:10.010 --> 01:07:13.130
central Illinois. So it's like, you know, yeah,

01:07:13.849 --> 01:07:15.610
I always I always laughed at that. Like, yeah,

01:07:15.690 --> 01:07:18.590
I'm fortunate. I have I have two passports. And

01:07:18.590 --> 01:07:20.590
so like you're asking me to pick which one's

01:07:20.590 --> 01:07:22.309
better. And it's like, well, what's the what's

01:07:22.309 --> 01:07:25.809
the question we're answering? Yeah, exactly.

01:07:25.969 --> 01:07:28.730
French toast, I'd say Canada. I mean, look at

01:07:28.730 --> 01:07:32.210
America, excuse me, America. All right, well,

01:07:32.289 --> 01:07:34.690
then let's kind of move forward from there. Back

01:07:34.690 --> 01:07:37.329
to writing. At what point as we've progressed

01:07:37.329 --> 01:07:39.789
through your life story so far, did the idea

01:07:39.789 --> 01:07:42.829
of even putting some of your experiences as a

01:07:42.829 --> 01:07:46.469
paramedic on paper? So this is one of those funny

01:07:46.469 --> 01:07:48.309
things, too. So remember, I said my undergrads

01:07:48.309 --> 01:07:51.349
in public relations. And at the time, part of

01:07:51.349 --> 01:07:53.809
the program required me to take a creative writing

01:07:53.809 --> 01:07:56.820
class. It was just a homework assignment. This

01:07:56.820 --> 01:07:59.079
entire film was an accident. It was a homework

01:07:59.079 --> 01:08:03.619
assignment. I had come off this 14 hour shift

01:08:03.619 --> 01:08:05.599
that was supposed to be 12. So, you know, just

01:08:05.599 --> 01:08:08.199
gnarly. And I almost didn't go to class that

01:08:08.199 --> 01:08:11.480
day. And it was at 10 o 'clock. So I got no sleep.

01:08:11.539 --> 01:08:13.639
I literally got home, took a shower, took my

01:08:13.639 --> 01:08:16.880
uniform off and put clothes on and went to class.

01:08:17.579 --> 01:08:19.680
And this professor kind of leaned back, kicked

01:08:19.680 --> 01:08:22.739
his feet up on the desk and said, if you want

01:08:22.739 --> 01:08:24.500
to tell a compelling story, write what you know.

01:08:25.390 --> 01:08:27.609
And I just remember thinking, you want a story?

01:08:27.729 --> 01:08:31.470
I'll tell you a story. Went home and was like

01:08:31.470 --> 01:08:34.050
possessed. I just, it was a 36 page short story.

01:08:34.109 --> 01:08:36.850
It was never a script. And it was just kind of

01:08:36.850 --> 01:08:39.350
like me screaming into the void, being burnt

01:08:39.350 --> 01:08:42.130
out. And like, yeah, here's this problem. And

01:08:42.130 --> 01:08:44.609
this is funny. And it was very dark. It was very

01:08:44.609 --> 01:08:46.390
twisted. It's very different than the movie that

01:08:46.390 --> 01:08:50.189
everybody saw. But I turned it in, I got an A

01:08:50.189 --> 01:08:51.789
on it, and that was it. It was a homework. I

01:08:51.789 --> 01:08:54.029
sent it to my family as a laugh. I said, you

01:08:54.029 --> 01:08:56.170
know, here's what my job is like. And it was

01:08:56.170 --> 01:09:00.909
just this kind of darkly funny story that I sent

01:09:00.909 --> 01:09:02.949
to my parents and my brother. And that was it.

01:09:03.029 --> 01:09:05.489
I graduated and went to college or finished college,

01:09:05.590 --> 01:09:08.409
finished grad school. And I had gotten a job

01:09:08.409 --> 01:09:11.689
in California, my first job out of grad school.

01:09:12.420 --> 01:09:17.119
And my brother is a VFX producer. He puts CGI

01:09:17.119 --> 01:09:20.920
stuff in film and commercials. And I was visiting

01:09:20.920 --> 01:09:22.939
him. I had, like I said, a month between when

01:09:22.939 --> 01:09:25.699
I moved out there and was just enjoying Southern

01:09:25.699 --> 01:09:29.220
California, LA. And he goes, you need to do something

01:09:29.220 --> 01:09:32.420
with your life. Write a script. I said, I don't

01:09:32.420 --> 01:09:33.560
know anything about writing a script. What do

01:09:33.560 --> 01:09:36.020
you want me to do? He said, well, you got that

01:09:36.020 --> 01:09:38.380
short story from college. Just turn that into

01:09:38.380 --> 01:09:41.050
a script. I don't know how to do that. And he

01:09:41.050 --> 01:09:42.850
said, well, here's the software, just do it.

01:09:43.489 --> 01:09:45.649
And so I did. Over the week, I wrote the first

01:09:45.649 --> 01:09:49.729
draft of Code 3. The original title was what

01:09:49.729 --> 01:09:51.649
I called the short story is Fake Stories from

01:09:51.649 --> 01:09:56.390
a Real Ambulance Driver. And so I loved that

01:09:56.390 --> 01:10:00.949
title, but it didn't work. And that was it. I

01:10:00.949 --> 01:10:02.829
wrote the first draft. I rewrote it a couple

01:10:02.829 --> 01:10:07.439
of times. I had no idea what I was doing. was

01:10:07.439 --> 01:10:09.159
like i basically turned into my brother like

01:10:09.159 --> 01:10:12.520
here you go and my and the the fortunate thing

01:10:12.520 --> 01:10:14.500
is that chris leone who's the director of the

01:10:14.500 --> 01:10:17.600
film and my brother at that time were co -workers

01:10:17.600 --> 01:10:21.199
so they both worked at a vfx house and so my

01:10:21.199 --> 01:10:22.960
brother strikes up a conversation with chris

01:10:22.960 --> 01:10:25.039
and says hey chris do you want to read a script

01:10:25.039 --> 01:10:28.819
to which chris says absolutely not which is the

01:10:28.819 --> 01:10:31.960
right answer And he said, well, what's it about?

01:10:32.100 --> 01:10:33.500
And he said, it's about being a paramedic. Well,

01:10:33.539 --> 01:10:34.840
what's your brother know about that? And he's

01:10:34.840 --> 01:10:37.079
like, well, he is one for, has been one for 10

01:10:37.079 --> 01:10:40.579
years. So ultimately the shorter version is that

01:10:40.579 --> 01:10:42.340
Chris finally decided to read the first draft

01:10:42.340 --> 01:10:45.199
of the script. And the first script was trash.

01:10:45.439 --> 01:10:47.460
I'm not defending it. It wasn't great, but it

01:10:47.460 --> 01:10:49.920
was good enough to get his attention. And he

01:10:49.920 --> 01:10:51.800
said, well, you know, let's, let's have lunch.

01:10:51.880 --> 01:10:54.699
I'd like to meet him. And so we went and had,

01:10:54.760 --> 01:10:58.859
we had lunch. And the, one of the questions Chris

01:10:58.859 --> 01:11:02.189
asked me the first time I met him, It was, tell

01:11:02.189 --> 01:11:03.869
me something that as an outsider, I would have

01:11:03.869 --> 01:11:06.130
no idea about. He never asked me what the worst

01:11:06.130 --> 01:11:07.810
thing was I ever saw. But he was just like, tell

01:11:07.810 --> 01:11:09.710
me something that from a complete outside that

01:11:09.710 --> 01:11:11.550
I would have no idea. And I just started laughing.

01:11:11.989 --> 01:11:13.810
And I just said, well, Chris, I know what brains

01:11:13.810 --> 01:11:16.229
smell like. And he almost fell out of his chair.

01:11:16.729 --> 01:11:19.250
And he was just like, that's fascinating. And

01:11:19.250 --> 01:11:22.390
I want to be involved. And so it was just a passion

01:11:22.390 --> 01:11:26.050
project between the three of us. Nobody got paid.

01:11:26.229 --> 01:11:28.770
This was not like, no studio was like, we can't

01:11:28.770 --> 01:11:31.300
wait to make this movie. It was literally us

01:11:31.300 --> 01:11:33.880
every couple of weeks emailing back and forth,

01:11:33.939 --> 01:11:35.899
hey, what do you think about this scene? Or not

01:11:35.899 --> 01:11:37.739
touching it for a month, oh, I had this idea.

01:11:38.140 --> 01:11:41.279
And so anybody who tells you they did it fast

01:11:41.279 --> 01:11:44.239
and Hollywood's is lying to you, depending on

01:11:44.239 --> 01:11:45.800
when you measure from. If you measure from when

01:11:45.800 --> 01:11:48.159
I wrote the short story to when we started shooting,

01:11:48.340 --> 01:11:50.699
it was 15 years. If you measure from when Chris

01:11:50.699 --> 01:11:53.880
got involved, it was 12 years. So nobody got

01:11:53.880 --> 01:11:57.180
paid until we started turning the cameras on.

01:11:58.409 --> 01:12:00.649
But that's literally how it started. It was a

01:12:00.649 --> 01:12:02.710
homework assignment that turned into a script

01:12:02.710 --> 01:12:04.609
because my brother pushed me to do it. And then

01:12:04.609 --> 01:12:07.949
he got Chris to read it. And fortunately, it

01:12:07.949 --> 01:12:11.369
was good enough to get his attention. I tell

01:12:11.369 --> 01:12:15.289
everybody, I was always good at writing. I'd

01:12:15.289 --> 01:12:18.010
written stuff for EMS World and the Joint Commission

01:12:18.010 --> 01:12:21.710
and some other publications. So this isn't like,

01:12:21.810 --> 01:12:24.970
oh, thank God they found me. I knew I was a good

01:12:24.970 --> 01:12:27.699
writer. To get the validation enough for someone

01:12:27.699 --> 01:12:30.039
who's in entertainment to pay attention to it

01:12:30.039 --> 01:12:32.899
and get hooked on the story, the central themes

01:12:32.899 --> 01:12:37.060
of the story was really meaningful. What was

01:12:37.060 --> 01:12:39.560
it that took 12 years? And there's a reason why

01:12:39.560 --> 01:12:42.800
I ask that aside, which is I've written two books

01:12:42.800 --> 01:12:45.819
now. And the second one, I've started the process

01:12:45.819 --> 01:12:49.260
of getting it into ultimately becoming a streaming

01:12:49.260 --> 01:13:15.409
series. chris and i and was just you know really

01:13:15.409 --> 01:13:19.289
like it but then comes the feedback like he rain

01:13:19.289 --> 01:13:21.409
is not only an incredibly talented actor but

01:13:21.409 --> 01:13:24.130
he's also a producer and a writer and you know

01:13:24.130 --> 01:13:26.090
he's like i have some thoughts let's what if

01:13:26.090 --> 01:13:29.569
we tweak this and did that so that took about

01:13:29.569 --> 01:13:32.970
six months um and then once rain was happy with

01:13:32.970 --> 01:13:35.729
it and he he absolutely said like i want to play

01:13:35.729 --> 01:13:38.899
randy like this is my guy He had connections

01:13:38.899 --> 01:13:41.399
to Wayfair, which was the studio that got involved,

01:13:41.560 --> 01:13:43.899
which got us financing and the rest of the way.

01:13:44.000 --> 01:13:48.539
So the inefficiencies are kind of the opaque

01:13:48.539 --> 01:13:51.300
parts of the market. You don't know what people

01:13:51.300 --> 01:13:55.239
want, right? Like the pit caught fire, but nobody

01:13:55.239 --> 01:14:00.380
was asking for a medical drama show. So you are

01:14:00.380 --> 01:14:03.199
throwing darts at a wall and ultimately they're

01:14:03.199 --> 01:14:05.779
gatekeepers there. And if you want to write,

01:14:05.920 --> 01:14:09.359
I don't know. Like, if you look back in the past

01:14:09.359 --> 01:14:12.460
three or four years, if it wasn't horror, the

01:14:12.460 --> 01:14:15.279
chance of getting greenlit wasn't much. If it's

01:14:15.279 --> 01:14:16.779
adult animation, probably not going to get that

01:14:16.779 --> 01:14:20.239
done. But those tastes change. And then you have

01:14:20.239 --> 01:14:23.520
things like The Pit. I'll throw Code 3 in there,

01:14:23.640 --> 01:14:26.840
where people didn't know that's what they wanted,

01:14:26.899 --> 01:14:29.770
and then they start watching it. So it's the

01:14:29.770 --> 01:14:32.310
inefficiencies are the people that are trying

01:14:32.310 --> 01:14:34.970
to appease the algorithm now. And consolidation

01:14:34.970 --> 01:14:37.189
is always a bad thing. So no matter who buys

01:14:37.189 --> 01:14:40.109
Warner Brothers, it's bad for the market because

01:14:40.109 --> 01:14:43.590
ultimately what used to be entertainment companies

01:14:43.590 --> 01:14:46.930
are becoming tech companies. And it's about what

01:14:46.930 --> 01:14:48.930
does the algorithm want versus what do humans

01:14:48.930 --> 01:14:51.609
want? And that is something that bothers me,

01:14:51.670 --> 01:14:55.829
but it's also the reality of where we are. That's

01:14:55.829 --> 01:14:59.130
really interesting. It doesn't help me at all

01:14:59.130 --> 01:15:01.449
because it's a very human story, so I'm screwed

01:15:01.449 --> 01:15:07.409
then. With the fusion of the comedy and the burnout

01:15:07.409 --> 01:15:10.050
story, was that something that you had initially

01:15:10.050 --> 01:15:11.829
in the script, or was that something that Rain

01:15:11.829 --> 01:15:16.390
brought to the conversation? No, it was in the

01:15:16.390 --> 01:15:19.289
first draft. In fact, Chris, if you listen to

01:15:19.289 --> 01:15:21.189
any of his interviews, he'll tell you the first

01:15:21.189 --> 01:15:23.210
time he read it, he loved the idea that we were

01:15:23.210 --> 01:15:27.470
telling a story through comedy. And I think he

01:15:27.470 --> 01:15:29.989
came up with the phrase, the best way to tell

01:15:29.989 --> 01:15:32.750
the truth is through humor. And that was always

01:15:32.750 --> 01:15:35.170
one of the central things, even in the first

01:15:35.170 --> 01:15:38.449
draft of the script was, even when I was writing

01:15:38.449 --> 01:15:42.689
it, the short story in that, it was never, come

01:15:42.689 --> 01:15:45.529
worship me because I'm a hero. It was, look at

01:15:45.529 --> 01:15:47.369
this goofy stuff that happens in the name of

01:15:47.369 --> 01:15:50.289
healthcare. Or this is stupid and I don't like

01:15:50.289 --> 01:15:51.949
it and I'm going to yell about it kind of thing.

01:15:52.090 --> 01:15:54.229
It was really, like I said, me screaming into

01:15:54.229 --> 01:15:56.609
the void. you know having some punchy lines and

01:15:56.609 --> 01:15:58.930
some funniness in there so that was always part

01:15:58.930 --> 01:16:02.510
of its organic dna now rain and rel and amy and

01:16:02.510 --> 01:16:05.130
and rob and yvette like you couldn't have asked

01:16:05.130 --> 01:16:07.050
for better people to take that to the next level

01:16:07.050 --> 01:16:11.449
um but it was always central to the theme of

01:16:11.449 --> 01:16:15.250
the film was we wanted to tell something funny

01:16:15.250 --> 01:16:17.710
but we also wanted it to hit hard and so we never

01:16:17.710 --> 01:16:20.350
shied away from the darker aspects of the job

01:16:20.350 --> 01:16:23.569
because that went hand in glove with the honest

01:16:23.569 --> 01:16:26.729
portrayal of the job. And I have said, I had

01:16:26.729 --> 01:16:28.609
the opportunity to go talk to the National Registry,

01:16:28.710 --> 01:16:31.350
the board of the National Registry. And one of

01:16:31.350 --> 01:16:33.510
the goals of this film really was to be a recruitment

01:16:33.510 --> 01:16:37.329
tool. And I know that sounds silly or braggadocious,

01:16:37.329 --> 01:16:40.869
depending on your perspective, is that we wanted

01:16:40.869 --> 01:16:43.090
to tell such an honest story that if you were

01:16:43.090 --> 01:16:45.810
curious about what this job is, hopefully this

01:16:45.810 --> 01:16:49.250
movie shows you that. So if you are naively thinking

01:16:49.250 --> 01:16:50.750
that you're going to put a cape on and just go

01:16:50.750 --> 01:16:53.439
save the world. You'll self -select out before

01:16:53.439 --> 01:16:56.000
you devote too much time into this career. And

01:16:56.000 --> 01:16:58.760
the flip side of that, too, is like if you got

01:16:58.760 --> 01:17:01.340
into it for the right reasons, you could see

01:17:01.340 --> 01:17:03.319
a mirror of it and say, like, you're not alone.

01:17:04.020 --> 01:17:05.960
And so the goal is always to bring more people

01:17:05.960 --> 01:17:08.079
into the field by being honest, because if you

01:17:08.079 --> 01:17:11.000
watch any TV show or movie about us, it's always

01:17:11.000 --> 01:17:13.520
like they're either doofuses. They're the people

01:17:13.520 --> 01:17:16.560
that declare people dead or they're just a bunch

01:17:16.560 --> 01:17:18.960
of guys. you know, thinking between their legs,

01:17:18.979 --> 01:17:21.439
trying to get the next thing. And we didn't want

01:17:21.439 --> 01:17:23.000
to do any of that. We wanted to be true to the

01:17:23.000 --> 01:17:26.380
job and pay homage to what I think is arguably

01:17:26.380 --> 01:17:29.199
one of the noblest professions out there. Yeah,

01:17:29.279 --> 01:17:31.100
you did a great job. I mean, one of the scenes,

01:17:31.340 --> 01:17:33.659
I don't want to obviously talk too much about

01:17:33.659 --> 01:17:35.439
it because I want people to watch it. But there

01:17:35.439 --> 01:17:37.739
is that I think it's one of the fourth wall moments

01:17:37.739 --> 01:17:40.939
where he's talking to the camera, I think. But

01:17:40.939 --> 01:17:43.600
he's talking about the decapitated two year old.

01:17:43.659 --> 01:17:45.739
And I've literally had a decapitated two year

01:17:45.739 --> 01:17:49.560
old in. in a traffic accident. And it just was

01:17:49.560 --> 01:17:51.600
like a punch to the face when he started talking

01:17:51.600 --> 01:17:54.960
about that. But you've got all the shenanigans

01:17:54.960 --> 01:17:58.220
and the laughter and the burnout and the tantrums

01:17:58.220 --> 01:17:59.779
and everything else. And all of a sudden, it

01:17:59.779 --> 01:18:01.680
just grabs you for a moment. It's like, but let

01:18:01.680 --> 01:18:03.479
me tell you about what we actually go through.

01:18:03.800 --> 01:18:05.539
And again, it's not everything. Like you said,

01:18:05.699 --> 01:18:08.039
one minute you're doing a rolled ankle. And I've

01:18:08.039 --> 01:18:09.760
had a guy that didn't like his dentures and called

01:18:09.760 --> 01:18:11.880
911. And we had to take a ride along because

01:18:11.880 --> 01:18:14.260
he was combative as well. So you have those,

01:18:14.340 --> 01:18:16.359
but then you have these horrific calls as well.

01:18:16.380 --> 01:18:19.100
And they do add up. So I thought you did a really

01:18:19.100 --> 01:18:22.100
good job of using comedy to kind of pull the

01:18:22.100 --> 01:18:24.840
story along, but not afraid every so often to

01:18:24.840 --> 01:18:28.220
slam on the brakes and just kind of hold a scene,

01:18:28.479 --> 01:18:31.140
you know, a much more kind of raw scene in front

01:18:31.140 --> 01:18:34.109
of us before then it carries on again. And one

01:18:34.109 --> 01:18:36.930
of the best comments that I've received that

01:18:36.930 --> 01:18:41.489
I really like are when I see the reviews or some

01:18:41.489 --> 01:18:43.390
people have found me on like Instagram and stuff

01:18:43.390 --> 01:18:46.050
like that, not that I'm hard to find, but are

01:18:46.050 --> 01:18:48.250
the ones that go, you know, basically some version

01:18:48.250 --> 01:18:50.630
of thank you for this because now I could show

01:18:50.630 --> 01:18:52.890
my family what my job is like without me having

01:18:52.890 --> 01:18:55.590
to tell the story every single day. Or the ones

01:18:55.590 --> 01:18:57.750
that are like I feel seen or, you know, those

01:18:57.750 --> 01:19:00.189
are the kind of ones that I care about personally.

01:19:01.470 --> 01:19:03.329
And we got it right. Like, yeah, don't get me

01:19:03.329 --> 01:19:05.090
wrong. I love appreciation and praise as much

01:19:05.090 --> 01:19:07.689
as the next guy. But the ones where they're like,

01:19:07.789 --> 01:19:11.069
I am now sharing this with my significant other,

01:19:11.189 --> 01:19:13.789
my of age children. You don't, this is not a

01:19:13.789 --> 01:19:16.909
kid's movie. Let me be clear. But like, I could

01:19:16.909 --> 01:19:19.529
show this to my family and it helps us have the

01:19:19.529 --> 01:19:22.470
conversation. And to me, like, that's like, I

01:19:22.470 --> 01:19:25.930
wish this movie existed when I was working. full

01:19:25.930 --> 01:19:27.729
-time so that way I could share it for that same

01:19:27.729 --> 01:19:29.789
reason. So for me, those are the ones that matter

01:19:29.789 --> 01:19:31.229
the most. And then of course the ones that are

01:19:31.229 --> 01:19:33.170
like, you know, you got it right. You know, that

01:19:33.170 --> 01:19:35.909
we're, you know, we're not being, we're not cartoons

01:19:35.909 --> 01:19:37.770
and we're not superheroes. Like that kind of

01:19:37.770 --> 01:19:40.630
stuff really matters. What about the doctor,

01:19:40.710 --> 01:19:43.670
the way you portray the ER physician? I've had

01:19:43.670 --> 01:19:46.409
some phenomenal ER physicians throughout my career,

01:19:46.489 --> 01:19:48.729
like really, really great people that were the

01:19:48.729 --> 01:19:51.369
complete polar opposite of that. But we all kind

01:19:51.369 --> 01:19:53.470
of know a version of that character too. What

01:19:53.470 --> 01:19:56.170
made you make that? that be the primary person

01:19:56.170 --> 01:19:58.949
every single time they went to the ER? So let

01:19:58.949 --> 01:20:02.430
me be clear. Dr. Serrano is not a real person.

01:20:02.489 --> 01:20:04.930
He is a culmination of exactly what you said,

01:20:05.010 --> 01:20:08.069
that guy or girl, right? We've all ran into him.

01:20:08.130 --> 01:20:12.210
He is a cartoon. He is absolutely cartoon, but

01:20:12.210 --> 01:20:16.859
versions of him exist everywhere. And like you

01:20:16.859 --> 01:20:19.000
said, some of my closest friends are still our

01:20:19.000 --> 01:20:21.479
docs that I worked with. I still have their phone

01:20:21.479 --> 01:20:24.199
number. They're great people. Most doctors are.

01:20:24.380 --> 01:20:27.180
This is not a site against doctors or cops or

01:20:27.180 --> 01:20:29.420
anybody else. But we had to tell a compelling

01:20:29.420 --> 01:20:33.260
story. And to make it really hit, we needed a

01:20:33.260 --> 01:20:35.760
foil that could stand up to Rainn Wilson. We

01:20:35.760 --> 01:20:38.359
needed somebody that could basically beat up

01:20:38.359 --> 01:20:41.539
Rainn. And so we get Rob Riggle, who is delightful.

01:20:42.170 --> 01:20:45.569
amazing human uh he's so nice he's so great to

01:20:45.569 --> 01:20:47.989
work with uh but we had to have somebody there

01:20:47.989 --> 01:20:50.149
that would kind of punch back and we needed that

01:20:50.149 --> 01:20:53.250
so this isn't er docs are bad it was just we

01:20:53.250 --> 01:20:55.970
needed somebody uh that could stand up to rain

01:20:55.970 --> 01:21:00.430
and those interactions that are being had some

01:21:00.430 --> 01:21:03.550
are in jest some are in frustration and the reason

01:21:03.550 --> 01:21:05.770
we have that there's a scene that humanizes him

01:21:05.770 --> 01:21:08.590
like i said we're not going to spoil it but there's

01:21:08.590 --> 01:21:10.449
a scene where he talks about the stressors that

01:21:10.449 --> 01:21:13.479
he's under working in the emergency room. And

01:21:13.479 --> 01:21:15.680
so what you come to realize is like these two

01:21:15.680 --> 01:21:18.939
people really hate each other, but they hate

01:21:18.939 --> 01:21:21.220
each other for the exact same reason. It's not

01:21:21.220 --> 01:21:23.079
them. It's the systems that they're working under.

01:21:23.840 --> 01:21:26.159
And I think he's burnt out too, basically. Yeah,

01:21:26.159 --> 01:21:27.619
he's burnt out too. But I think if you really

01:21:27.619 --> 01:21:29.300
look at it, they really respect each other because

01:21:29.300 --> 01:21:32.640
what happens when they later on in the film,

01:21:32.659 --> 01:21:35.180
when they really get heated, there's a mutual

01:21:35.180 --> 01:21:37.779
respect to do the right thing, but they're coming

01:21:37.779 --> 01:21:41.590
at it from different angles. Absolutely. Well,

01:21:41.630 --> 01:21:43.130
one more area, and then we'll go to some closing

01:21:43.130 --> 01:21:45.750
questions. I won't go too deeply because, again,

01:21:45.770 --> 01:21:47.750
I don't want to give away the kind of latter

01:21:47.750 --> 01:21:50.989
part of the story. But a truth that's come out

01:21:50.989 --> 01:21:54.789
of so many transition stories in the military

01:21:54.789 --> 01:21:59.489
and first responders is we were called to this

01:21:59.489 --> 01:22:02.090
profession to truly to make the world a little

01:22:02.090 --> 01:22:04.090
bit better. There's more to it than that, but

01:22:04.090 --> 01:22:09.029
there is a service element to it. Where I see

01:22:09.029 --> 01:22:11.310
people really struggle when they transition out

01:22:11.310 --> 01:22:15.109
is if they find themselves in some sort of other

01:22:15.109 --> 01:22:17.729
profession where there isn't that service. Maybe

01:22:17.729 --> 01:22:20.689
it is purely money focused or sales focused,

01:22:20.770 --> 01:22:23.829
for example. And so, you know, without taking

01:22:23.829 --> 01:22:26.250
a deep dive into that, I thought that was a really

01:22:26.250 --> 01:22:29.310
good part of the story to, you know, understanding

01:22:29.310 --> 01:22:33.130
that even if you're burnt out and even if ultimately

01:22:33.130 --> 01:22:35.390
you transition to another version of something.

01:22:36.220 --> 01:22:38.640
If you're not serving, it's going to be incredibly

01:22:38.640 --> 01:22:42.979
jarring. So we can't just flawlessly transition

01:22:42.979 --> 01:22:46.819
into Wall Street and now just chase money and

01:22:46.819 --> 01:22:49.800
want Rolexes and Ferraris and think that's going

01:22:49.800 --> 01:22:52.359
to be the perfect bridge for a first responder

01:22:52.359 --> 01:22:56.199
or a military member. Who we are really does

01:22:56.199 --> 01:22:58.439
dictate whether we stay in a profession the full

01:22:58.439 --> 01:23:02.960
20, 25 years and or whatever comes next still

01:23:02.960 --> 01:23:06.779
has an element of serving woven into it. I agree.

01:23:07.319 --> 01:23:10.760
I was very fortunate that as I was transitioning

01:23:10.760 --> 01:23:13.619
out of clinical medicine, I got to do something

01:23:13.619 --> 01:23:16.939
that I felt was a service. Again, my role was

01:23:16.939 --> 01:23:19.500
very niched. I got to work inpatient experience

01:23:19.500 --> 01:23:22.579
for the better part of a dozen years. And to

01:23:22.579 --> 01:23:24.760
me, what I would always say is when I was in

01:23:24.760 --> 01:23:27.439
the ambulance, I got to make a decision that

01:23:27.439 --> 01:23:30.319
made a huge difference in one person, maybe two,

01:23:30.579 --> 01:23:33.220
three at the absolute worst, people's lives at

01:23:33.220 --> 01:23:38.350
one time. I'm working in the hospital system

01:23:38.350 --> 01:23:41.310
where the decisions I make impact thousands of

01:23:41.310 --> 01:23:43.449
lives because I'm working on systematic projects

01:23:43.449 --> 01:23:46.649
that impact people to make sure that they understand

01:23:46.649 --> 01:23:48.310
the care that they're getting, that they feel

01:23:48.310 --> 01:23:51.829
seen and heard, et cetera. So my transition was

01:23:51.829 --> 01:23:54.350
very easy. There was a very easy lane for me

01:23:54.350 --> 01:23:58.869
to fit into. Now, I got very, very lucky. But

01:23:58.869 --> 01:24:01.010
to your point, yeah, I think it would be really

01:24:01.010 --> 01:24:03.390
hard for somebody to go from paramedic to car

01:24:03.390 --> 01:24:07.319
salesman. Because I think you're absolutely right.

01:24:07.439 --> 01:24:10.520
I mean, I've surveyed a few first responders

01:24:10.520 --> 01:24:13.399
and to a point, they all say some version of

01:24:13.399 --> 01:24:15.260
I got into this role to help. That's why I got

01:24:15.260 --> 01:24:17.939
into it. We want to help people. That's why we

01:24:17.939 --> 01:24:22.039
got into it. And then the systematic issues start

01:24:22.039 --> 01:24:24.439
to build and you get into that moral hazard,

01:24:24.460 --> 01:24:26.819
the moral injury territory where I know what

01:24:26.819 --> 01:24:29.560
I need to do. I know what I want to do. And not

01:24:29.560 --> 01:24:32.340
because I can't, because I'm unable to provide

01:24:32.340 --> 01:24:35.000
that. And I think that is. That's really challenging.

01:24:35.119 --> 01:24:39.359
We really did. We watched The Hurt Locker and

01:24:39.359 --> 01:24:41.439
we frankly stole a lot from The Hurt Locker.

01:24:41.460 --> 01:24:44.039
We really liked that movie. But there's a scene

01:24:44.039 --> 01:24:45.760
in The Hurt Locker when he comes, when he rotates

01:24:45.760 --> 01:24:48.060
back stateside, he's just in the grocery store

01:24:48.060 --> 01:24:50.800
and it's sterile white. And he's just like more

01:24:50.800 --> 01:24:53.500
terrifying than trying to diffuse a bomb in Afghanistan.

01:24:53.619 --> 01:24:56.560
Like that's kind of the same thing. Now, again,

01:24:56.720 --> 01:24:59.039
I'll say this again. I've never served in the

01:24:59.039 --> 01:25:01.399
military. I don't claim to respect all the people

01:25:01.399 --> 01:25:05.760
that do. But to me, I would imagine that it's

01:25:05.760 --> 01:25:09.420
something similar to that. Absolutely. Well,

01:25:09.479 --> 01:25:11.079
I want to throw some closing questions at you

01:25:11.079 --> 01:25:13.479
before I let you go. The first one I love to

01:25:13.479 --> 01:25:16.140
ask, is there a book or are there books that

01:25:16.140 --> 01:25:18.279
you'd love to recommend? It can be related to

01:25:18.279 --> 01:25:20.220
our discussion today or completely unrelated.

01:25:20.659 --> 01:25:23.979
A Thousand Naked Strangers by Kevin Hazard. Love

01:25:23.979 --> 01:25:26.939
that book. I just recently, I haven't met him

01:25:26.939 --> 01:25:30.479
in person, but after the movie came out, he reached

01:25:30.479 --> 01:25:32.640
out to me and we got a chance to chat for a little

01:25:32.640 --> 01:25:36.180
bit. But I read that book, God, I think the year

01:25:36.180 --> 01:25:38.859
it came out. And that guy, he got it right. So

01:25:38.859 --> 01:25:40.460
if you haven't read A Thousand Naked Strangers,

01:25:40.539 --> 01:25:44.159
you need to. Great, great EMS book. In fact,

01:25:44.199 --> 01:25:46.399
as I was writing my story, I was just like, well,

01:25:46.420 --> 01:25:48.119
he already did it. Like, I'm done. What do I

01:25:48.119 --> 01:25:53.920
need to do? But fantastic book. For anybody who's

01:25:53.920 --> 01:25:56.659
interested in the patient experience kind of

01:25:56.659 --> 01:25:58.840
journey stuff, Hardwiring Excellence by Quinn

01:25:58.840 --> 01:26:00.979
Studer. That was the book that got me into the

01:26:00.979 --> 01:26:06.359
field that I was in. Great book. He's putting

01:26:06.359 --> 01:26:09.340
me on the spot. I grew up, my dad was a huge

01:26:09.340 --> 01:26:11.159
advocate of how to win friends and influence

01:26:11.159 --> 01:26:13.079
people. And I think that's still to this day,

01:26:13.119 --> 01:26:20.220
a great book to read and take a hold of. You

01:26:20.220 --> 01:26:23.000
know, I'm blanking. You put me on the spot here.

01:26:23.020 --> 01:26:25.000
I wasn't prepared for that question. No, that's

01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:26.500
not what you've already said, though. They're

01:26:26.500 --> 01:26:30.439
all great books. I had Kevin on a while ago now.

01:26:30.560 --> 01:26:33.439
He wrote American Sirens as well about the original

01:26:33.439 --> 01:26:35.659
paramedics out of Pittsburgh and the Freedom

01:26:35.659 --> 01:26:37.680
House back in the 60s, but they were all African

01:26:37.680 --> 01:26:40.680
-American. So that story kind of got rewritten

01:26:40.680 --> 01:26:42.500
a little bit. Whitewashed, I think, is the term.

01:26:42.760 --> 01:26:44.500
And, you know, we all thought that the original

01:26:44.500 --> 01:26:48.520
EMS was in Miami and L .A. and in the 70s. But

01:26:48.520 --> 01:26:51.600
it predates that. So it does a great job paying

01:26:51.600 --> 01:26:55.060
homage to them, too. Yes, exactly. Absolutely.

01:26:55.359 --> 01:26:57.359
All right. Well, we'll talk about your film in

01:26:57.359 --> 01:26:59.840
a minute. But what about other films, television

01:26:59.840 --> 01:27:04.340
shows and documentaries that you love? Oh, man.

01:27:05.760 --> 01:27:07.460
You know, I feel like you have to say the cliche

01:27:07.460 --> 01:27:09.319
things, Mother Jugs and Speed bringing out the

01:27:09.319 --> 01:27:12.460
dead. They were good. They were arguably not

01:27:12.460 --> 01:27:14.760
my favorite. And I'm sure I'll get yelled at

01:27:14.760 --> 01:27:16.840
in the comments for that. But I think they were

01:27:16.840 --> 01:27:19.159
the first real attempts to kind of explain our

01:27:19.159 --> 01:27:22.960
world. And of course, you know, The Godfather

01:27:22.960 --> 01:27:27.600
is amazing. The Hurt Locker, again, was a huge

01:27:27.600 --> 01:27:29.720
inspiration for our film. If you haven't seen

01:27:29.720 --> 01:27:32.880
it, you need to go see it. Just know that I unfortunately

01:27:32.880 --> 01:27:34.920
am blanking on the filmmakers' names, but they

01:27:34.920 --> 01:27:40.069
were fabulous in that film. You know, as far

01:27:40.069 --> 01:27:42.369
as comedies go, I grew up watching Mel Brooks.

01:27:42.529 --> 01:27:45.250
I think he's spectacular at everything that he

01:27:45.250 --> 01:27:48.329
touches. Rob Reiner, The Princess Diaries. Unfortunately,

01:27:48.670 --> 01:27:51.050
rest in peace. That was a horrific murder that

01:27:51.050 --> 01:27:56.130
just came out the other day. But really the things

01:27:56.130 --> 01:27:59.970
that we were a big comedy house at growing up.

01:27:59.989 --> 01:28:02.109
And so we would watch, like I said, Mel Brooks.

01:28:05.000 --> 01:28:07.699
John Cleese, all that kind of stuff. And those

01:28:07.699 --> 01:28:09.939
were always things that really, really impacted

01:28:09.939 --> 01:28:12.399
me. One of my favorite movies ever. There's,

01:28:12.399 --> 01:28:17.500
there's two movies that I love that, you know,

01:28:17.500 --> 01:28:19.380
I will get in fights defending, even though they

01:28:19.380 --> 01:28:22.859
don't deserve it. The first one is there's a

01:28:22.859 --> 01:28:25.180
movie called undercover blues. I think an early

01:28:25.180 --> 01:28:29.239
nineties movie, Dennis Quaid. And the reason

01:28:29.239 --> 01:28:31.880
I love that movie is that Stanley Tucci plays

01:28:31.880 --> 01:28:37.020
this hit man. And it's the movie is wacky. But

01:28:37.020 --> 01:28:38.779
Stanley Tucci's character to me makes the whole

01:28:38.779 --> 01:28:41.359
film because the central concept is like these

01:28:41.359 --> 01:28:43.939
are two CIA agents trying to do something. And

01:28:43.939 --> 01:28:48.310
Morty. Stanley Tucci plays this hitman whose

01:28:48.310 --> 01:28:50.970
name is Muerte and they keep calling him Morty.

01:28:51.409 --> 01:28:53.550
And it's just like this comedic foil that's like

01:28:53.550 --> 01:28:55.670
perfectly timed. Every time he comes in, they

01:28:55.670 --> 01:28:57.710
beat him up and they just always keep calling

01:28:57.710 --> 01:28:59.229
him like, Morty, I don't have time for this.

01:28:59.289 --> 01:29:00.689
And they go beat him up and he goes away and

01:29:00.689 --> 01:29:03.869
he comes back around later in the movie. The

01:29:03.869 --> 01:29:06.270
reason I say I love that movie is even as a kid,

01:29:06.409 --> 01:29:09.430
my brother, my dad and I were all big movie fans

01:29:09.430 --> 01:29:11.069
and we would always be like, movie needs a Morty.

01:29:11.250 --> 01:29:15.329
And we would always reference that movie. And

01:29:15.329 --> 01:29:18.010
the other one is arguably one of my favorite

01:29:18.010 --> 01:29:21.270
movies called The Hudson Hawk. Very young Bruce

01:29:21.270 --> 01:29:24.350
Willis. The movie is objectively terrible. It

01:29:24.350 --> 01:29:26.609
got a raspberry, I think, in the 90s. It deserved

01:29:26.609 --> 01:29:28.909
the raspberry. The entire plot makes no sense.

01:29:29.069 --> 01:29:32.909
And I love this film for one reason only. I'm

01:29:32.909 --> 01:29:35.890
sorry, two reasons. There is the banter between

01:29:35.890 --> 01:29:38.529
Bruce Willis and his partner throughout the entire

01:29:38.529 --> 01:29:40.869
film, I think, is just absolutely chef's kiss

01:29:40.869 --> 01:29:43.840
perfect. And then if you watch that movie and

01:29:43.840 --> 01:29:46.140
all you care about is does Bruce Willis get a

01:29:46.140 --> 01:29:49.119
cup of coffee? Cinematic masterpiece. Nothing

01:29:49.119 --> 01:29:51.699
else makes sense. The movie is awful, but it's

01:29:51.699 --> 01:29:54.340
one of my absolute favorites. And I highly recommend

01:29:54.340 --> 01:29:57.640
both of those to anybody, because I think if

01:29:57.640 --> 01:30:00.779
I was a film student, those would be my my my

01:30:00.779 --> 01:30:06.420
keystone movies. I make everybody watch. So those

01:30:06.420 --> 01:30:08.939
those two things and even in the film in Code

01:30:08.939 --> 01:30:12.890
3, like. The film Needs a Morty, we have, you

01:30:12.890 --> 01:30:14.609
know, different characters that kind of play

01:30:14.609 --> 01:30:19.050
that. The banter between Mike and Randy, ultimately,

01:30:19.109 --> 01:30:21.369
at least from, I can't speak for Chris, but for

01:30:21.369 --> 01:30:24.430
my, came from that Hudson Hawk banter between

01:30:24.430 --> 01:30:28.670
Bruce Willis and his character and his partner.

01:30:29.689 --> 01:30:34.649
So I love those films. I'm trying to think, what

01:30:34.649 --> 01:30:36.130
were the other questions you asked me? You asked

01:30:36.130 --> 01:30:38.210
me about films and what? yeah it's okay films

01:30:38.210 --> 01:30:41.170
documentaries television so oh uh there's any

01:30:41.170 --> 01:30:43.609
any of the screen stuff basically yeah there

01:30:43.609 --> 01:30:46.310
was a there was a show called um third watch

01:30:46.310 --> 01:30:49.270
that i thought did a really good job of doing

01:30:49.270 --> 01:30:51.909
it of doing showing public safety that i enjoyed

01:30:51.909 --> 01:30:56.029
watching um so that was good documentary wise

01:30:56.029 --> 01:30:59.829
uh i'm a huge science nerd and and my wife makes

01:30:59.829 --> 01:31:02.149
fun of me because i i love like how the universe

01:31:02.149 --> 01:31:05.869
works and thinking about like everything from

01:31:05.869 --> 01:31:08.949
particle physics to black holes, but none of

01:31:08.949 --> 01:31:11.829
that has any bearing on this. It's just something

01:31:11.829 --> 01:31:14.069
that I find fascinating that I could never do

01:31:14.069 --> 01:31:17.050
the math on. But anything to do with, with that

01:31:17.050 --> 01:31:19.170
kind of stuff fascinates me. So I always love

01:31:19.170 --> 01:31:24.409
those types of, of things where you could tie

01:31:24.409 --> 01:31:28.369
in like deep unknown truths about the universe

01:31:28.369 --> 01:31:30.869
and trying to make them human in some way, shape

01:31:30.869 --> 01:31:36.640
or form. And Yeah, I don't know. I don't know

01:31:36.640 --> 01:31:38.279
if I'm derailing your podcast or not, but you

01:31:38.279 --> 01:31:40.039
asked me. No, no, no. Those are my answers. No,

01:31:40.060 --> 01:31:41.699
that's great. I love the way, you know, the reasons

01:31:41.699 --> 01:31:43.300
behind some of the films. It's funny, you talk

01:31:43.300 --> 01:31:46.619
about the coffee. I guarantee you that that probably

01:31:46.619 --> 01:31:48.560
was inspiration for the fall guy. Because if

01:31:48.560 --> 01:31:50.659
you notice, Ryan Gosling through the whole film

01:31:50.659 --> 01:31:52.359
is trying to get a cup of coffee and there's

01:31:52.359 --> 01:31:54.659
all these fight scenes that happen. So probably

01:31:54.659 --> 01:31:58.140
inspired by that. Totally reminds me. One of

01:31:58.140 --> 01:32:00.899
the whole themes of Code 3, I mean, way before.

01:32:01.850 --> 01:32:04.409
like this version got scrapped but the whole

01:32:04.409 --> 01:32:06.810
thing was rain didn't eat or well rain wasn't

01:32:06.810 --> 01:32:08.829
even attached yet the whole one of the running

01:32:08.829 --> 01:32:10.989
gags was every time the emails was going to pull

01:32:10.989 --> 01:32:13.550
in to get a meal they get a call and so it was

01:32:13.550 --> 01:32:16.250
just like once we decided it was a 24 -hour shift

01:32:16.250 --> 01:32:20.260
we're like We have to feed him. But the earlier

01:32:20.260 --> 01:32:23.020
versions of the script was literally, he's just

01:32:23.020 --> 01:32:26.140
hangry the entire time from breakfast on. And

01:32:26.140 --> 01:32:28.119
it was one of my things I was always big on.

01:32:28.159 --> 01:32:30.239
He doesn't get to eat through the entire movie.

01:32:30.520 --> 01:32:32.960
And then obviously, once you make it a 24 -hour

01:32:32.960 --> 01:32:35.520
shift, he has to eat. Yeah, but it was good.

01:32:35.619 --> 01:32:39.380
Even when he does, that scene works 100%. Have

01:32:39.380 --> 01:32:44.979
you seen Asphalt City? Sean Penn plays a paramedic.

01:32:45.930 --> 01:32:47.770
I've heard. No, I have not. I've heard about

01:32:47.770 --> 01:32:50.250
it, though. OK, so that they did a good job,

01:32:50.270 --> 01:32:53.489
but they made it so dark that I would argue it

01:32:53.489 --> 01:32:55.829
was the opposite of a recruitment tool. I won't

01:32:55.829 --> 01:32:58.609
say any more than that. Absolutely. He's NYPD

01:32:58.609 --> 01:33:00.689
or was it called Black Flies? I know he did one.

01:33:01.449 --> 01:33:05.949
No, he's he plays a paramedic. But FDNY paramedic,

01:33:05.949 --> 01:33:07.710
if I'm right. So he's a New York paramedic. I've

01:33:07.710 --> 01:33:10.550
heard about that one. Very, very dark. Very dark.

01:33:10.630 --> 01:33:13.899
So I think darkness is great. But I think. If

01:33:13.899 --> 01:33:15.500
you have darkness, that gives you the opportunity

01:33:15.500 --> 01:33:17.680
to really then show the light and vice versa.

01:33:17.800 --> 01:33:20.619
But if it's just all dark, you know. Yeah, you

01:33:20.619 --> 01:33:22.960
can't you could be dark and it turns into bleakness

01:33:22.960 --> 01:33:25.140
if you're not careful. Yeah, exactly. I would

01:33:25.140 --> 01:33:27.720
I would argue that probably does. All right.

01:33:27.720 --> 01:33:29.380
Well, then the next question, is there a person

01:33:29.380 --> 01:33:31.520
you'd recommend to come on this podcast as a

01:33:31.520 --> 01:33:33.979
guest to speak to the first responders, military

01:33:33.979 --> 01:33:36.619
and associated professions of the world? Oh,

01:33:36.659 --> 01:33:39.890
wow. I mean. So I've had the good fortune to

01:33:39.890 --> 01:33:42.350
meet a lot of people that are in this field.

01:33:42.770 --> 01:33:45.449
Rob Lawrence, who's the executive director of

01:33:45.449 --> 01:33:48.970
the California Animal Association. I've known

01:33:48.970 --> 01:33:51.310
Rob for years. In fact, we were podcasting before.

01:33:51.670 --> 01:33:55.710
Podcasting was cool in the early 2010s with Chris

01:33:55.710 --> 01:33:59.090
Sabalero and him talking about EMS leadership.

01:34:00.550 --> 01:34:03.409
Chris Holden, who's a dear friend of mine, he

01:34:03.409 --> 01:34:06.369
owns and operates First Priority Medical Transport.

01:34:06.939 --> 01:34:09.460
or mobile healthcare in South Carolina. He was

01:34:09.460 --> 01:34:10.899
the roommate I was talking about earlier that

01:34:10.899 --> 01:34:13.560
would force me to go to the gym together. He's

01:34:13.560 --> 01:34:15.720
a growing voice. Henry Lewis, who's the head

01:34:15.720 --> 01:34:19.920
of the South Carolina EMS Association. Bill Seifert

01:34:19.920 --> 01:34:22.560
from the National Registry. His story is fascinating.

01:34:24.899 --> 01:34:28.340
Justin Rapoff, Dr. Justin Rapoff, a childhood

01:34:28.340 --> 01:34:30.119
friend of mine. Literally, I've known him since

01:34:30.119 --> 01:34:33.579
seven or eight years old. He's one of the EMS

01:34:33.579 --> 01:34:37.779
heads for St. Louis EMS. St. Louis, Missouri.

01:34:39.760 --> 01:34:46.439
Man. But yeah, those people are Chris Sabalero.

01:34:46.600 --> 01:34:48.460
I think I mentioned his name. He's really good

01:34:48.460 --> 01:34:55.079
too. He's a leadership consultant now. Rob Riggle

01:34:55.079 --> 01:34:58.720
would absolutely be fabulous because he's a former

01:34:58.720 --> 01:35:02.739
Marine officer. He has his own podcast called

01:35:02.739 --> 01:35:04.699
Riggle's Picks, which is a great podcast. You

01:35:04.699 --> 01:35:09.060
should listen to that too. Rain, obviously, Amy,

01:35:09.260 --> 01:35:12.760
Yvette, anybody. Those are the people. Lil Rel,

01:35:12.960 --> 01:35:15.659
he's great. Those people are all fundamentally

01:35:15.659 --> 01:35:18.720
great human beings. I know that they're celebrities,

01:35:18.800 --> 01:35:21.600
but they're... fabulous people i highly recommend

01:35:21.600 --> 01:35:25.279
chris leone certainly um if you wanted to learn

01:35:25.279 --> 01:35:30.600
more about the film and his backstory um who

01:35:30.600 --> 01:35:36.279
else yeah those are the ones that come to mind

01:35:36.279 --> 01:35:39.739
right off the top of my head um but yeah all

01:35:39.739 --> 01:35:41.579
and you couldn't go wrong with any of them they're

01:35:41.579 --> 01:35:44.199
they're all great people they're all passionate

01:35:44.199 --> 01:35:46.399
people that care a lot about what they do and

01:35:46.399 --> 01:35:49.840
and um making the world better which to me are

01:35:49.840 --> 01:35:53.060
the people that that i'm very attracted to yeah

01:35:53.060 --> 01:35:55.800
that's literally fundamentally how i'm bringing

01:35:55.800 --> 01:35:57.819
people together for my project there's zero dollars

01:35:57.819 --> 01:36:00.060
attached to it at the moment so it's showing

01:36:00.060 --> 01:36:02.359
people this is this is the idea with the story

01:36:02.359 --> 01:36:04.239
and there's an accompanying element to it as

01:36:04.239 --> 01:36:07.239
well you know the goal is to you know literally

01:36:07.239 --> 01:36:09.600
try and bring some healing back into the world

01:36:09.600 --> 01:36:11.479
and you know if that resonates with people okay

01:36:11.479 --> 01:36:13.239
and then we can start building everything around

01:36:13.239 --> 01:36:15.520
it but just like you you know it's you got to

01:36:15.520 --> 01:36:17.399
have good humans around you in that kind of project

01:36:17.399 --> 01:36:18.899
if you're just going to make some minus action

01:36:18.899 --> 01:36:21.779
movie and put some you know superstar in the

01:36:21.779 --> 01:36:24.279
front and Not really worry about the script and

01:36:24.279 --> 01:36:26.680
just slap it on Netflix, then good for you. But

01:36:26.680 --> 01:36:29.699
I mean, when I ask the questions about films

01:36:29.699 --> 01:36:31.479
that really resonate with people, the number

01:36:31.479 --> 01:36:33.699
of times I hear, you know, Band of Brothers and,

01:36:33.720 --> 01:36:36.579
you know, Shawshank Redemption and some of these

01:36:36.579 --> 01:36:39.500
really powerful human stories that that actually

01:36:39.500 --> 01:36:42.000
are impacting people. So, yeah, that's the kind

01:36:42.000 --> 01:36:43.859
of human I want to surround myself even even

01:36:43.859 --> 01:36:46.720
with this this not only the show, but more importantly,

01:36:46.760 --> 01:36:48.579
the podcast, too. It doesn't matter if you're

01:36:48.579 --> 01:36:51.869
a Hollywood star, you know, or or. you're my

01:36:51.869 --> 01:36:53.210
best friend or something you know what i mean

01:36:53.210 --> 01:36:56.210
it's the same thing yeah absolutely and then

01:36:56.210 --> 01:36:58.489
the nice thing is there's no shortage of really

01:36:58.489 --> 01:37:01.090
good people they're just not typically celebrities

01:37:01.090 --> 01:37:04.470
like most of them are like and again i hate to

01:37:04.470 --> 01:37:07.050
bring this back to my mom but like she wasn't

01:37:07.050 --> 01:37:09.430
a celebrity but man the people that came out

01:37:09.430 --> 01:37:11.069
of the woodwork when they found out she was no

01:37:11.069 --> 01:37:13.250
longer with us was i mean that's when you see

01:37:13.250 --> 01:37:17.189
the impact and hopefully uh i hope people get

01:37:17.189 --> 01:37:19.130
recognized while they're still with us and not

01:37:19.130 --> 01:37:21.649
after they're in a coffin um because there's

01:37:21.649 --> 01:37:23.470
a lot of people doing a lot of great work that

01:37:23.470 --> 01:37:26.609
um don't get the accolades that they need or

01:37:26.609 --> 01:37:29.470
that they deserve publicly yeah well i think

01:37:29.470 --> 01:37:32.189
that's how we turn things around when when when

01:37:32.189 --> 01:37:34.050
the spotlight even though they wouldn't want

01:37:34.050 --> 01:37:35.989
it on them is put on the people that are healing

01:37:35.989 --> 01:37:38.529
that are bringing people together you know that's

01:37:38.529 --> 01:37:41.859
when we turn it around you know if the As we've

01:37:41.859 --> 01:37:44.000
seen, sadly, more recently, if the microphones

01:37:44.000 --> 01:37:45.600
and the spotlights are putting on the people

01:37:45.600 --> 01:37:48.420
that are even just self -serving or divisive,

01:37:48.439 --> 01:37:51.739
then you end up with this kind of increased stress

01:37:51.739 --> 01:37:54.819
and lack of community. So it's the good humans,

01:37:54.920 --> 01:37:56.640
whatever their backgrounds are, that we need

01:37:56.640 --> 01:38:04.619
more now than ever. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'm

01:38:04.619 --> 01:38:06.840
trying to think like you said it perfectly. I'm

01:38:06.840 --> 01:38:08.199
going to just stop talking. Feel free to edit

01:38:08.199 --> 01:38:11.539
that out. Well, you know, there's a lot of great

01:38:11.539 --> 01:38:15.140
people out there. All right, well, let's go back.

01:38:15.220 --> 01:38:18.079
So before we talk about where people can find

01:38:18.079 --> 01:38:20.439
the film, one last question. What do you do to

01:38:20.439 --> 01:38:26.079
decompress? You know, for me, I love to cook.

01:38:26.319 --> 01:38:29.979
So I'm really good at it. I enjoy it. To me,

01:38:30.000 --> 01:38:32.590
it's kind of. Whenever, no matter what happens,

01:38:32.670 --> 01:38:34.310
you know, when I get into the kitchen and I start

01:38:34.310 --> 01:38:36.590
figuring out what I'm doing and planning a meal

01:38:36.590 --> 01:38:40.029
and making something and you start working at

01:38:40.029 --> 01:38:42.069
it and the smells come out and everything, that

01:38:42.069 --> 01:38:44.670
to me really helps center me because it's one

01:38:44.670 --> 01:38:45.829
of those things where you have to be present

01:38:45.829 --> 01:38:49.529
or else you'll screw it up. And especially if

01:38:49.529 --> 01:38:51.390
you want to do something extra special or you

01:38:51.390 --> 01:38:54.170
want to make it not Kraft mac and cheese, not

01:38:54.170 --> 01:38:56.210
that I'm knocking it, it's delicious, but you

01:38:56.210 --> 01:38:59.600
know. That to me is something I really like artistic

01:38:59.600 --> 01:39:03.920
things. So I like to do ceramics and I've just

01:39:03.920 --> 01:39:06.279
recently started getting a dabbling in woodworking.

01:39:06.500 --> 01:39:08.359
And so I think that gets me out of the head of,

01:39:08.380 --> 01:39:11.079
you know, quote work and being able to express

01:39:11.079 --> 01:39:13.520
myself some artistic fashion. I obviously like

01:39:13.520 --> 01:39:16.359
to write. I still do. I write poetry and stuff

01:39:16.359 --> 01:39:18.239
that no one will ever see, but it's a nice little

01:39:18.239 --> 01:39:21.960
outlet. And then I've been fortunate enough to

01:39:21.960 --> 01:39:23.640
have the privilege to travel. And I still think

01:39:23.640 --> 01:39:26.979
that's one of the best things that. that anybody

01:39:26.979 --> 01:39:29.000
can do and that I've had the opportunity, the

01:39:29.000 --> 01:39:30.560
fortune enough to be able to do, to be able to,

01:39:30.619 --> 01:39:34.140
you know, just say, you know, let's, let's take

01:39:34.140 --> 01:39:36.220
a weekend trip and my wife and I'll, I'll go

01:39:36.220 --> 01:39:40.859
and go, go visit someplace and, and spend a few

01:39:40.859 --> 01:39:43.800
days just decompressing away from both of our

01:39:43.800 --> 01:39:46.100
respective work things that we have to focus

01:39:46.100 --> 01:39:50.189
on. And To me, that's really important. Spending

01:39:50.189 --> 01:39:53.090
time with the people you really like. I'm very

01:39:53.090 --> 01:39:56.270
fortunate. I have a fantastic wife. I love her.

01:39:56.310 --> 01:39:58.750
She's fabulous. She's one of my favorite humans,

01:39:58.829 --> 01:40:02.710
so I love spending time with her. I'm very, very

01:40:02.710 --> 01:40:05.210
lucky in that when I put stuff on the shelf,

01:40:05.250 --> 01:40:08.149
I can come home and be home and spend time with

01:40:08.149 --> 01:40:10.789
people that I really like. I have a corgi, too,

01:40:10.869 --> 01:40:14.770
and he's adorable. That makes life easy. Just

01:40:14.770 --> 01:40:16.729
going back, because I meant to ask you and I

01:40:16.729 --> 01:40:19.039
didn't. You talked about the burnout that you

01:40:19.039 --> 01:40:22.079
had while you were still working EMS. What were

01:40:22.079 --> 01:40:24.640
the tools that helped you get out of that state?

01:40:25.500 --> 01:40:29.239
Therapy, full stop. Friends are great. And I

01:40:29.239 --> 01:40:31.560
had a lot of friends. Most of my friends were

01:40:31.560 --> 01:40:33.899
cops, firefighters, and medics. And we were all

01:40:33.899 --> 01:40:36.460
kind of mirrors of each other. So it didn't really

01:40:36.460 --> 01:40:38.260
help when you were just complaining and it just

01:40:38.260 --> 01:40:42.560
keeps stacking. But I tell everybody, I got to

01:40:42.560 --> 01:40:44.859
give the commencement speech at a recent paramedic

01:40:44.859 --> 01:40:47.750
graduation. And what I told all of them, It was

01:40:47.750 --> 01:40:52.090
the same advice I gave to the Colorado EMS Association

01:40:52.090 --> 01:40:55.250
was that you need to take the vacations when

01:40:55.250 --> 01:40:58.069
you get the time. When you've earned your time,

01:40:58.210 --> 01:41:01.449
it's not a fallacy to take a vacation. You fundamentally

01:41:01.449 --> 01:41:03.689
need to be able to step away from this job and

01:41:03.689 --> 01:41:07.189
recenter yourself, which means it can't be like

01:41:07.189 --> 01:41:10.949
a day off. You need purposeful vacations that

01:41:10.949 --> 01:41:12.829
they cannot call you. They cannot get in touch

01:41:12.829 --> 01:41:16.199
with you. preferably out of where you work, like

01:41:16.199 --> 01:41:18.220
your area, your geographic area, if you work,

01:41:18.340 --> 01:41:20.500
you need to take your time because this job will

01:41:20.500 --> 01:41:23.479
take it from you. You need to make friends with

01:41:23.479 --> 01:41:25.920
normies, people who are not in this industry,

01:41:26.020 --> 01:41:30.779
because they will be a great mirror for you for

01:41:30.779 --> 01:41:33.279
when you start to change and you can't see it.

01:41:34.300 --> 01:41:36.539
Make sure you make friends with like engineers,

01:41:36.680 --> 01:41:39.470
school teachers, whatever. Anybody who's not

01:41:39.470 --> 01:41:43.329
at all associated with fire, EMS, dispatch, or

01:41:43.329 --> 01:41:48.970
police. And then the other one, too, is get help.

01:41:49.270 --> 01:41:53.670
And I mean that sincerely. I was very burnt out.

01:41:53.810 --> 01:41:59.970
I didn't realize how burnt out I was. the therapy

01:41:59.970 --> 01:42:02.369
is not, is not weakness. And I think that if

01:42:02.369 --> 01:42:03.930
there's anything that's going to be on my tombstone,

01:42:03.989 --> 01:42:06.369
I think that's it. And like, I went to therapy

01:42:06.369 --> 01:42:08.550
regularly for the better part of two and a half

01:42:08.550 --> 01:42:12.529
years. And again, I, I was very, very lucky,

01:42:12.569 --> 01:42:16.770
no drugs, no, I didn't want to kill myself. But

01:42:16.770 --> 01:42:19.569
becoming what I would consider fully human again

01:42:19.569 --> 01:42:23.229
was, was, was a path forward was, was work. It

01:42:23.229 --> 01:42:26.680
takes work. It sucks. It's hard. But you put

01:42:26.680 --> 01:42:29.220
in the work if you have a good therapist. And

01:42:29.220 --> 01:42:30.880
that doesn't mean that the first one you get

01:42:30.880 --> 01:42:32.640
works for you. I went through like two or three

01:42:32.640 --> 01:42:34.500
of them before I found the one that was the right

01:42:34.500 --> 01:42:37.680
fit for me. And what I advocate for with people

01:42:37.680 --> 01:42:40.680
all the time is let's say you're healthy now.

01:42:40.779 --> 01:42:45.340
And I hope you are. Do the pre -work now. Go

01:42:45.340 --> 01:42:48.680
vet the therapist. Go vet the people. Like do

01:42:48.680 --> 01:42:50.939
a check -in. Just make sure they take your insurance.

01:42:51.039 --> 01:42:54.439
Do all of the crap right now. So that way tomorrow

01:42:54.439 --> 01:42:57.760
when you need that help, you've got all that

01:42:57.760 --> 01:43:00.159
stuff laid out. Because what I've heard from

01:43:00.159 --> 01:43:03.600
lots of industry professionals is like, we have

01:43:03.600 --> 01:43:06.060
an EAP, a robust employee assistance program

01:43:06.060 --> 01:43:08.600
is what I always hear. And I say, great, have

01:43:08.600 --> 01:43:11.039
you vetted it? And what I mean by that is exactly

01:43:11.039 --> 01:43:13.439
what I told you. The most that I see, you get

01:43:13.439 --> 01:43:15.960
six free sessions. Usually they're with a coach,

01:43:15.979 --> 01:43:18.300
they're not with a therapist. And as soon as

01:43:18.300 --> 01:43:20.500
you're done with those six, like good luck, you're

01:43:20.500 --> 01:43:23.439
on your own. So I think EAP programs are fantastic

01:43:23.439 --> 01:43:26.640
and we should continue to invest in them. Giant

01:43:26.640 --> 01:43:29.859
asterisks. You're going to need somebody to continue

01:43:29.859 --> 01:43:32.180
that work forward. And to do that, you got to

01:43:32.180 --> 01:43:34.060
do a little bit of pre -work. And this isn't

01:43:34.060 --> 01:43:37.800
like you're all broken, you poor souls. But if

01:43:37.800 --> 01:43:40.380
you do the work now, trust me, when you need

01:43:40.380 --> 01:43:44.859
it later, it will be a much easier process. I've

01:43:44.859 --> 01:43:47.460
lost count how many EAP horror stories I've heard.

01:43:47.680 --> 01:43:50.470
And there, as you said, there are. people that

01:43:50.470 --> 01:43:53.710
use that blueprint you know vet their therapists

01:43:53.710 --> 01:43:55.770
and have a really great system you know some

01:43:55.770 --> 01:43:58.369
even have unlimited sessions available so i'm

01:43:58.369 --> 01:44:01.210
excluding them but the number of times that i've

01:44:01.210 --> 01:44:04.590
heard someone go to an eap listed practitioner

01:44:04.590 --> 01:44:06.850
if they even answered the phone or if their number

01:44:06.850 --> 01:44:09.369
was even in service and they sat in front of

01:44:09.369 --> 01:44:11.649
the person who wasn't culturally competent and

01:44:11.649 --> 01:44:13.890
that person burst into tears or that person told

01:44:13.890 --> 01:44:16.659
them they get out they can't help them I've lost

01:44:16.659 --> 01:44:18.460
count how many times I've heard that. And I always

01:44:18.460 --> 01:44:21.880
say this. What really breaks my heart is I heard

01:44:21.880 --> 01:44:24.159
those because those people are still alive. How

01:44:24.159 --> 01:44:26.800
many have we lost because of a broken EAP system

01:44:26.800 --> 01:44:29.439
where they finally had the courage to ask for

01:44:29.439 --> 01:44:31.319
help? They sat in front of the wrong person.

01:44:31.479 --> 01:44:33.260
They said they couldn't help them. They went

01:44:33.260 --> 01:44:36.460
home. They stuck a gun in their mouth. vetting

01:44:36.460 --> 01:44:38.300
from the personal point of view. I think that's

01:44:38.300 --> 01:44:40.300
such great advice, especially if you are not

01:44:40.300 --> 01:44:42.619
in a bad place. Now is the perfect time because

01:44:42.619 --> 01:44:45.100
you've got a clear mind. But if you are the employer

01:44:45.100 --> 01:44:47.699
as well, making sure that those names on that

01:44:47.699 --> 01:44:50.539
list are still there, are answering the phone,

01:44:50.720 --> 01:44:53.300
don't have a six -month waiting list, and then

01:44:53.300 --> 01:44:55.560
most importantly, have ever even worked with

01:44:55.560 --> 01:44:58.300
the population that you serve. Yeah, I will echo

01:44:58.300 --> 01:45:00.699
that immediately. Yeah. If you are a leader in

01:45:00.699 --> 01:45:04.619
any of the public service agencies, tomorrow,

01:45:05.520 --> 01:45:08.119
tomorrow, when you go to work, call your EAP

01:45:08.119 --> 01:45:11.000
and find out like exactly what you said. Cause

01:45:11.000 --> 01:45:13.180
I went through that the first, you know, you

01:45:13.180 --> 01:45:15.119
get the list of people and the first one's dead.

01:45:15.180 --> 01:45:16.880
The second one's in a different state. The third

01:45:16.880 --> 01:45:19.000
one isn't seeing new clients. The fourth one

01:45:19.000 --> 01:45:20.760
doesn't take your insurance. Like if you were

01:45:20.760 --> 01:45:23.119
a leader in any service right now, tomorrow,

01:45:23.340 --> 01:45:26.979
call your EAP and find out and whittle that list

01:45:26.979 --> 01:45:29.699
down because yes, your industry or your organization

01:45:29.699 --> 01:45:31.840
probably did invest with the best of intentions

01:45:31.840 --> 01:45:37.460
on an EAP program. But that EAP program, speaking

01:45:37.460 --> 01:45:39.220
from experience and from, like you said, the

01:45:39.220 --> 01:45:41.600
horror stories I've heard, may not be up to date.

01:45:41.640 --> 01:45:43.800
I hope it is. And I hope you have a great one.

01:45:44.279 --> 01:45:47.159
But it is your job as a leader to make sure that

01:45:47.159 --> 01:45:49.060
your people, when they reach for help, can get

01:45:49.060 --> 01:45:52.739
that help. And don't settle for the list. Like

01:45:52.739 --> 01:45:55.619
you as the leader, call through that list and

01:45:55.619 --> 01:45:57.119
make sure that it's accurate and up to date.

01:45:58.420 --> 01:46:00.600
Absolutely. All right. Well, then for people

01:46:00.600 --> 01:46:02.720
listening, firstly, where can they find the film?

01:46:03.199 --> 01:46:06.380
Ah, we are on Apple and Amazon right now to rent

01:46:06.380 --> 01:46:11.800
or buy. And Amazon, you can buy a physical DVD

01:46:11.800 --> 01:46:15.439
copy on Amazon right now. I know that they are

01:46:15.439 --> 01:46:18.819
working on a streaming deal, but none of that

01:46:18.819 --> 01:46:21.960
is finalized. So I don't even know if that's

01:46:21.960 --> 01:46:24.039
going to happen yet. As the writer, unfortunately,

01:46:24.380 --> 01:46:26.420
I'm not part of those conversations. So basically,

01:46:26.479 --> 01:46:29.600
I'll get an email someday if it happens. And

01:46:29.600 --> 01:46:32.340
that says, hey, we've got a deal. But right now,

01:46:32.359 --> 01:46:35.479
the only way you can watch it is for rent or

01:46:35.479 --> 01:46:39.140
purchase on Apple or Amazon digitally, or you

01:46:39.140 --> 01:46:41.199
can actually buy the DVD on Amazon right now.

01:46:42.000 --> 01:46:44.300
Beautiful. And then what about you? If people

01:46:44.300 --> 01:46:46.119
want to reach out to you, learn more about you,

01:46:46.199 --> 01:46:48.239
where are the best places online? Well, if you

01:46:48.239 --> 01:46:51.239
can spell my name correctly, I'm very easy to

01:46:51.239 --> 01:46:54.000
find on Instagram and Facebook. It's Patrick

01:46:54.000 --> 01:46:57.970
Pinnett's on those various platforms. But yeah,

01:46:58.350 --> 01:47:00.569
that's where I live. Those are the only handles

01:47:00.569 --> 01:47:03.859
that I have right now. Beautiful. Well, I want

01:47:03.859 --> 01:47:05.560
to thank you so much. It's been such an amazing

01:47:05.560 --> 01:47:07.699
conversation. Of course, it was the film that

01:47:07.699 --> 01:47:10.439
ultimately connected us, but your perspective

01:47:10.439 --> 01:47:13.159
on everything from the volunteer and EMS through

01:47:13.159 --> 01:47:15.739
to the other side of healthcare. And one of the

01:47:15.739 --> 01:47:18.239
first people, honestly, that's been in that space

01:47:18.239 --> 01:47:20.220
has talked about universal healthcare as well.

01:47:20.720 --> 01:47:22.899
It's been such an amazing conversation. So I

01:47:22.899 --> 01:47:24.859
want to thank you so much for being so generous

01:47:24.859 --> 01:47:26.779
with your time and coming on the Behind the Shield

01:47:26.779 --> 01:47:29.800
podcast today. Thanks for having us. And I send

01:47:29.800 --> 01:47:32.079
everyone, I end all of my interviews with this

01:47:32.079 --> 01:47:35.520
right now. For anybody who's doing the job, I

01:47:35.520 --> 01:47:37.479
don't care where you are or what it is that you

01:47:37.479 --> 01:47:40.039
do. Thank you for what you do because I know

01:47:40.039 --> 01:47:42.460
you'll never hear it enough. So you're going

01:47:42.460 --> 01:47:43.840
to hear it from me today. Thank you for what

01:47:43.840 --> 01:47:47.699
you do. It matters. You are very important and

01:47:47.699 --> 01:47:50.840
what you're doing is saving lives. So I appreciate

01:47:50.840 --> 01:47:52.460
it. And that's coming from somebody who did the

01:47:52.460 --> 01:47:55.659
job for 12 years. So keep up the good work. Do

01:47:55.659 --> 01:47:56.079
what you can.