WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.200 This episode is sponsored by yet another company 00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:05.440 that I truly stand behind, and that is Levels. 00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:08.259 And Levels is going to be offering you, the Behind 00:00:08.259 --> 00:00:10.980 the Shield podcast audience, a discount that 00:00:10.980 --> 00:00:13.099 I will tell you about at the end of this introduction. 00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:16.879 Now, before I even dive into what Levels does, 00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:20.620 when I had a conversation with their CEO and 00:00:20.620 --> 00:00:23.920 founder, Josh Clemente, he underlined such an 00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:27.320 important topic. So many of us rely on visits 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:30.460 to our physicians to tell us how we are doing, 00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:34.009 and that is so backward. I am an absolute believer 00:00:34.009 --> 00:00:36.990 in putting autonomy back into the hands of the 00:00:36.990 --> 00:00:39.869 individual so they can take care of their own 00:00:39.869 --> 00:00:42.950 health. Now, what Levels does is it gives us 00:00:42.950 --> 00:00:45.850 the metrics so we can see exactly how everything 00:00:45.850 --> 00:00:49.429 is internally. So they help people improve their 00:00:49.429 --> 00:00:51.670 health through continuous glucose monitoring, 00:00:52.030 --> 00:00:55.509 comprehensive lab tests and metabolic coaching. 00:00:56.170 --> 00:00:58.549 Now through their three levels that they offer, 00:00:58.630 --> 00:01:00.969 they have programs that focus on weight loss, 00:01:01.270 --> 00:01:04.950 heart health, and glucose stability. I've now 00:01:04.950 --> 00:01:07.489 been through this program twice, and I'll kind 00:01:07.489 --> 00:01:10.150 of illustrate what it will look like. So you 00:01:10.150 --> 00:01:12.189 make an initial consultation with your levels 00:01:12.189 --> 00:01:15.870 coach. You wear a continuous blood sugar monitor 00:01:15.870 --> 00:01:20.109 for one month. You'll complete a lab panel, and 00:01:20.109 --> 00:01:23.219 I did it through Quest Diagnostics. A clinician 00:01:23.219 --> 00:01:26.340 with levels will then analyze your results and 00:01:26.340 --> 00:01:29.439 give you an action plan. That's when you can 00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:32.519 then start hitting your own health goals and 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:35.739 in real time track your own progress. And then 00:01:35.739 --> 00:01:38.120 depending on the level you subscribe to, there's 00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:40.879 also a second blood work so you can now see how 00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:44.519 you're doing six months later. Now by combining 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:48.700 AI data, AI powered insights and human coaching 00:01:48.700 --> 00:01:52.849 together, 80 % of Levels members improve their 00:01:52.849 --> 00:01:56.370 biomarkers. Now, as I mentioned, Levels is offering 00:01:56.370 --> 00:01:58.650 you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast, 00:01:59.189 --> 00:02:03.129 $100 off your first order if you use the promo 00:02:03.129 --> 00:02:08.250 code SHIELD at levels .com. And if you're interested 00:02:08.250 --> 00:02:11.229 in getting Levels for your department, email 00:02:11.229 --> 00:02:14.830 Josh Clemente, the founder and CEO of Levels, 00:02:14.830 --> 00:02:20.240 at josh at levels .com. And if you want to hear 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.060 the origin story and so much more about this 00:02:23.060 --> 00:02:26.020 incredible company, listen to my interview with 00:02:26.020 --> 00:02:30.599 CEO and founder Josh Clemente on episode 1159 00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:34.889 of the Behind the Shield podcast. This episode 00:02:34.889 --> 00:02:37.490 is sponsored by Transcend, a veteran -owned and 00:02:37.490 --> 00:02:40.449 operated performance optimization company that 00:02:40.449 --> 00:02:43.150 I introduced recently as a sponsor on this show. 00:02:43.449 --> 00:02:45.669 Well, since then, I have actually been using 00:02:45.669 --> 00:02:47.849 my products and I have had incredible success. 00:02:48.449 --> 00:02:50.830 There was initial blood work that was extremely 00:02:50.830 --> 00:02:54.430 detailed and based on that, they offered supplementation. 00:02:54.750 --> 00:02:59.509 So I began taking DHEA. BPC -157 for inflammation 00:02:59.509 --> 00:03:01.530 based on the fact that I've been a stuntman, 00:03:01.590 --> 00:03:03.849 a martial artist and a firefighter my whole life. 00:03:03.990 --> 00:03:07.270 Lots of aches and pains. Dihexa to help cognition 00:03:07.270 --> 00:03:10.009 after multiple punches to the head and shift 00:03:10.009 --> 00:03:12.930 work and peptides. Four months later they did 00:03:12.930 --> 00:03:15.050 a detailed blood work again and I was actually 00:03:15.050 --> 00:03:17.789 able to taper off two of the peptides because 00:03:17.789 --> 00:03:20.409 my body had responded so well to just one of 00:03:20.409 --> 00:03:23.259 them that it was optimized at that point. So 00:03:23.259 --> 00:03:26.699 I cannot speak highly enough of the immense range 00:03:26.699 --> 00:03:29.080 of supplementation that they offer, whether it's 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:32.000 male health, female health, peptides to boost 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:33.960 your own testosterone, which I would argue is 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:36.800 needed by a lot of the fire service, or whether 00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:38.939 it's exogenous testosterone needed, especially 00:03:38.939 --> 00:03:42.389 after TBIs or advanced age. Now, as I mentioned 00:03:42.389 --> 00:03:44.770 before, the other side of this company is an 00:03:44.770 --> 00:03:47.250 altruistic arm called the Transcend Foundation, 00:03:47.770 --> 00:03:50.349 which is putting veterans and first responders 00:03:50.349 --> 00:03:53.490 through some of their protocols free of charge. 00:03:53.750 --> 00:03:56.449 Now, Transcend are also offering you, the audience, 00:03:56.629 --> 00:03:59.689 10 % off their protocols. And you can find that 00:03:59.689 --> 00:04:02.409 on jamesgearing .com under the Products tab. 00:04:02.770 --> 00:04:05.250 And if you want to hear more about Transcend 00:04:05.250 --> 00:04:08.930 and their story, listen to episode 808 with the 00:04:08.930 --> 00:04:13.300 founder, Ernie Colling. or go to transcendcompany 00:04:13.300 --> 00:04:17.319 .com. Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. 00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:19.360 As always, my name is James Geering and this 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:21.339 week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the 00:04:21.339 --> 00:04:26.199 show Air Force veteran and former Rescue 3 FDNY 00:04:26.199 --> 00:04:30.379 firefighter, Jeff Kuhl. Now in this conversation, 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:33.500 we discuss a host of topics from Jeff's journey 00:04:33.500 --> 00:04:36.800 into the military, firefighting in the Air Force, 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:41.769 his transition into FDNY, his powerful perspective 00:04:41.769 --> 00:04:46.810 on 9 -11, being trapped in the 178th Street Fire 00:04:46.810 --> 00:04:50.329 on Black Sunday, the selfless courage of Joey 00:04:50.329 --> 00:04:53.889 DiBernardo, the horrendous injuries Jeff sustained 00:04:53.889 --> 00:04:57.589 from the fall, his physical and mental health 00:04:57.589 --> 00:05:01.810 journey, losing Joey, the creation of the Lieutenant 00:05:01.810 --> 00:05:06.209 Joseph P. DiBernardo Memorial Foundation, how 00:05:06.209 --> 00:05:08.730 their training and bailout systems are saving 00:05:08.730 --> 00:05:13.290 firefighters to this day, and so much more. Now, 00:05:13.290 --> 00:05:15.569 before we get to this incredibly powerful and 00:05:15.569 --> 00:05:18.350 important conversation, as I say every week, 00:05:18.470 --> 00:05:22.149 please just take a moment. Go to whichever app 00:05:22.149 --> 00:05:24.930 you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, 00:05:25.170 --> 00:05:29.620 leave feedback, and leave a rating. Every single 00:05:29.620 --> 00:05:32.839 five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast, 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:35.600 therefore making it easier for others to find. 00:05:35.779 --> 00:05:40.519 And this is a free library of almost 1 ,200 episodes 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:44.379 now. So all I ask in return is that you help 00:05:44.379 --> 00:05:47.139 share these incredible men and women's stories 00:05:47.139 --> 00:05:51.160 so I can get them to every single person on planet 00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:54.699 Earth who needs to hear them. So with that being 00:05:54.699 --> 00:05:59.839 said, I introduce to you, Jeff. Cool. Enjoy. 00:06:19.459 --> 00:06:22.120 Well, Jeff, I want to start by saying thank you 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:24.939 so, so much for taking the time and coming on 00:06:24.939 --> 00:06:27.649 the Behind the Shield podcast today. It's my 00:06:27.649 --> 00:06:30.769 honor to be here. So where on planet Earth are 00:06:30.769 --> 00:06:34.209 we finding you this afternoon? I am south of 00:06:34.209 --> 00:06:37.410 the Mason -Dixon line in Myrtle Beach, South 00:06:37.410 --> 00:06:40.269 Carolina. So you were just saying that you were 00:06:40.269 --> 00:06:42.790 playing golf with John Walters, who was another 00:06:42.790 --> 00:06:46.970 guest that became a good friend. Yeah, Johnny 00:06:46.970 --> 00:06:49.750 is part of, well, he was a member of Rescue One. 00:06:50.029 --> 00:06:54.470 He was injured a little over a year after I was 00:06:54.470 --> 00:06:59.379 injured in the line of duty. He was injured in 00:06:59.379 --> 00:07:06.240 2006 and I was injured in 2005. He was a rescue 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:08.879 one fireman and I was a rescue three firemen, 00:07:08.980 --> 00:07:11.660 both with FDNY. There's five rescues for the 00:07:11.660 --> 00:07:15.079 city of New York. And, you know, we lean on each 00:07:15.079 --> 00:07:19.220 other a lot. You know, Johnny lost his leg and 00:07:19.220 --> 00:07:24.129 almost both his legs in the line of duty. One 00:07:24.129 --> 00:07:27.829 day he dubbed us on the 15th anniversary of 9 00:07:27.829 --> 00:07:31.649 -11. We were shooting a documentary in New York 00:07:31.649 --> 00:07:34.029 with a fellow friend, Brian Parrott, that was 00:07:34.029 --> 00:07:38.649 a Navy SEAL sniper for eight years. And it was 00:07:38.649 --> 00:07:41.470 Mike Schunk and Johnny Walters from Rescue 1. 00:07:43.970 --> 00:07:46.629 Rob Liebman from Rescue 2 that was burned up 00:07:46.629 --> 00:07:50.029 in a brownstone pretty bad. And then myself from 00:07:50.029 --> 00:07:52.569 Rescue 3, and we're taking a picture. We're on 00:07:52.569 --> 00:07:56.129 Marine 1 out in the New York Harbor. And Johnny 00:07:56.129 --> 00:07:59.889 said, look at this, the Misfit Toy Club. Each 00:07:59.889 --> 00:08:03.389 one of us had a career due to injuries. Rescue 00:08:03.389 --> 00:08:06.610 4 and 5 could have been in there in any other 00:08:06.610 --> 00:08:09.689 engine or truck in the city of New York. And 00:08:09.689 --> 00:08:13.069 then we lean on one another for support, because 00:08:13.069 --> 00:08:16.730 nobody knows it better than the guys that have 00:08:16.730 --> 00:08:20.579 been through it and gals. Absolutely. I'm actually 00:08:20.579 --> 00:08:23.180 flying out to Dallas in about three weeks to 00:08:23.180 --> 00:08:27.620 MC Ryan 7X documentary. So we did that round 00:08:27.620 --> 00:08:29.439 the world thing a couple of years ago and the 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:32.500 film is ready. So that's going to be fun. Awesome. 00:08:33.820 --> 00:08:35.799 Speaking of Rescue 1, just before we progress 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:39.159 into your actual timeline, one of my favorite 00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:42.960 people from FDNY is Al Benjamin. He came on a 00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:45.039 few years ago now. Did you ever cross paths with 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:48.230 Al? Al is a phenomenal guy. I still talk to him. 00:08:48.250 --> 00:08:50.950 I haven't talked to him probably in eight months 00:08:50.950 --> 00:08:54.649 or better, but a great, great, you know, just 00:08:54.649 --> 00:08:59.289 a giant of a man, a knowledgeable man. He was 00:08:59.289 --> 00:09:03.990 one of the senior guys in Rescue One and just 00:09:03.990 --> 00:09:06.269 a great guy. Just, you know, he continues to 00:09:06.269 --> 00:09:09.470 pay it forward in the job. You know, he's a very 00:09:09.470 --> 00:09:14.940 kind soul. Yeah. I think anyone who... has uh 00:09:14.940 --> 00:09:17.799 problems with their ego and the fire service 00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:20.460 understanding what a true senior firefighter 00:09:20.460 --> 00:09:23.000 is need to listen to al's podcast because that 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:24.919 i never rose above the rank of fireman either 00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:27.320 and i just still love the job so much i didn't 00:09:27.320 --> 00:09:30.820 want to promote but that experience in the back 00:09:30.820 --> 00:09:33.220 seat i think is invaluable but sadly in this 00:09:33.220 --> 00:09:35.740 um environment that we have now people are just 00:09:35.740 --> 00:09:37.659 you know flying up the ladder and i get it they're 00:09:37.659 --> 00:09:40.159 trying to trying to earn more money but i think 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:43.289 there's so much knowledge to squeeze out of the 00:09:43.289 --> 00:09:45.210 firefighter's position before you think about 00:09:45.210 --> 00:09:48.389 promoting. Absolutely. Absolutely. I had about 00:09:48.389 --> 00:09:50.970 eight, 10 months in the books myself when I was 00:09:50.970 --> 00:09:55.169 still in 19 truck. And I was like, you know what? 00:09:55.230 --> 00:09:57.029 I wasn't ready to be a boss. And this is prior 00:09:57.029 --> 00:09:59.669 to 9 -11. And I was on my way to be a senior 00:09:59.669 --> 00:10:03.850 man in 19 truck. And I told my wife, I go, I 00:10:03.850 --> 00:10:06.389 don't know if this is for me right now. And she 00:10:06.389 --> 00:10:09.389 says, it's not about the money. It's what makes 00:10:09.389 --> 00:10:12.429 you happy. you know, and being a senior man in 00:10:12.429 --> 00:10:15.049 a company. And I didn't know how the cards would 00:10:15.049 --> 00:10:17.309 unfold. We wouldn't know, you know, a couple, 00:10:17.450 --> 00:10:21.429 I don't even remember like time -wise if it was 00:10:21.429 --> 00:10:25.190 months, you know, a year or so or two years. 00:10:25.309 --> 00:10:27.529 But, you know, I mean, 9 -11 happened and it 00:10:27.529 --> 00:10:30.330 changed, it changed FDNY, it changed the United 00:10:30.330 --> 00:10:32.570 States of America, it changed the world. So you 00:10:32.570 --> 00:10:36.179 just never know. Absolutely. Well, I want to 00:10:36.179 --> 00:10:38.279 get to what that event was even like through 00:10:38.279 --> 00:10:39.960 your eyes, but let's start at the very beginning 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:42.740 of your timeline. So tell me where you were born 00:10:42.740 --> 00:10:44.779 and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, 00:10:45.059 --> 00:10:48.220 what your parents did, how many siblings. So 00:10:48.220 --> 00:10:54.080 I was born in New York, in Rockland County, in 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:58.639 Nyack, New York, Nyack Hospital. I grew up in 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:03.250 Havistraw. a very diverse community, a great 00:11:03.250 --> 00:11:08.870 community, an old Dutch community that was, it 00:11:08.870 --> 00:11:12.549 was a brick laying community. There was a huge 00:11:12.549 --> 00:11:16.570 clay field that was there and basically Haverstraw, 00:11:16.649 --> 00:11:19.629 the town and village I grew up in, built New 00:11:19.629 --> 00:11:23.210 York City. You still find bricks floating up 00:11:23.210 --> 00:11:26.700 on the Hudson River there. My mom and dad are 00:11:26.700 --> 00:11:28.960 both from West Virginia, from a small coal mining 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:31.519 town in West Virginia. You blink your eyes, you're 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:35.559 through it. Mom and dad both came to New York 00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:42.740 separately for work. They both work for Letchworth 00:11:42.740 --> 00:11:47.580 Institution, which is a mental hospital at the 00:11:47.580 --> 00:11:53.279 time. We're mentally handicapped children. Being 00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:56.340 given as wards of the state, you know, parents 00:11:56.340 --> 00:11:58.580 would give them up and mom and dad both worked 00:11:58.580 --> 00:12:02.480 there initially. Down the road, my dad went to 00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:04.019 work for the New York State Thruway Authority, 00:12:04.379 --> 00:12:09.259 being a firefighter, a tow truck operator for 00:12:09.259 --> 00:12:12.460 the Tappan Zee Bridge and X amount of miles on 00:12:12.460 --> 00:12:15.039 either side of the Tappan Zee Bridge, also a 00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:19.980 volunteer firefighter. Mom left Lexworth, became 00:12:19.980 --> 00:12:26.070 a stay -at -home mom. I have one brother, Jim, 00:12:26.230 --> 00:12:28.289 or James that he goes by now, like yourself, 00:12:28.570 --> 00:12:32.730 but he's always Jim to me. He's my younger brother, 00:12:32.850 --> 00:12:36.730 but he appears to be much older. He looks like 00:12:36.730 --> 00:12:39.789 the biker type, and he fits that, but he also 00:12:39.789 --> 00:12:42.850 carries around Mom's little Yorkie now. We lost 00:12:42.850 --> 00:12:46.590 Mom last year, and so you see this big tattooed 00:12:46.590 --> 00:12:49.059 guy that used to ride a Harley. Kind of around 00:12:49.059 --> 00:12:51.259 this little Yorkie. It's kind of funny, you know. 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:54.080 So it was, you know, it was me and my brother 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:56.240 growing up. And then mom went back to work at 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:59.419 some point. And, you know, our family was a working 00:12:59.419 --> 00:13:03.639 family. It was a struggle. Dad worked a sod job 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:06.860 as a custodian. He was a foreman. Mom worked 00:13:06.860 --> 00:13:09.059 in a factory, but they always provided for the 00:13:09.059 --> 00:13:11.700 family. And every day that my mom came home from 00:13:11.700 --> 00:13:14.460 work, it was a... It was a home -cooked meal 00:13:14.460 --> 00:13:17.080 on the table. It wasn't like she was on her feet 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:19.620 all day. She worked in a curtain factory. And 00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:22.740 that job would eventually take her life. You 00:13:22.740 --> 00:13:25.679 know, she lost her life to COPD, breathing all 00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:30.799 the particles from the curtains and stuff, all 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:33.860 the finer particles. So she was a non -smoker. 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:36.740 But, you know, we had a great childhood. You 00:13:36.740 --> 00:13:39.139 know, spent a lot of time in West Virginia, summers 00:13:39.139 --> 00:13:41.299 in West Virginia on a farm, on my aunt and uncle's 00:13:41.299 --> 00:13:44.389 farm. you know, hunting and fishing and just 00:13:44.389 --> 00:13:48.090 being a country boy. And then I'd come back to 00:13:48.090 --> 00:13:50.929 New York and, you know, I had great friends growing 00:13:50.929 --> 00:13:54.049 up. You know, we'd go out and, you know, we'd 00:13:54.049 --> 00:13:56.129 play all day and, you know, until the sun was 00:13:56.129 --> 00:13:58.629 going down and it was, you know, homeward bound. 00:14:01.150 --> 00:14:03.649 And somewhere along the way, I mean, as a young 00:14:03.649 --> 00:14:06.230 kid, I used to run away to the volunteer firehouse. 00:14:06.389 --> 00:14:08.370 You know, I grew up in a community that was all 00:14:08.370 --> 00:14:11.370 volunteer firefighters and my dad belonged to 00:14:11.370 --> 00:14:14.570 the volunteer firehouse. And Jeff would come 00:14:14.570 --> 00:14:17.009 up missing and mom would know where to find me. 00:14:17.110 --> 00:14:19.250 I was just looking for the volunteer firehouse. 00:14:21.549 --> 00:14:23.889 Going back to what your parents did when they 00:14:23.889 --> 00:14:26.799 first moved to New York. Did they ever relay 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:28.720 any stories? Because if you think about those 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:30.779 institutions, a lot of them were closed down. 00:14:30.820 --> 00:14:32.340 From what I understand, that's actually really 00:14:32.340 --> 00:14:34.179 the kind of origin of our homelessness problem 00:14:34.179 --> 00:14:36.340 as well. Not so much the children one, but the 00:14:36.340 --> 00:14:39.860 mental institutions themselves. But I remember 00:14:39.860 --> 00:14:43.399 as a firefighter paramedic going to one of the 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:45.279 nursing homes that we had, and there was a floor 00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:47.980 full of children. There was a little boy that 00:14:47.980 --> 00:14:50.950 I... sadly held in my arms while he died, but 00:14:50.950 --> 00:14:53.870 I'm shaking baby, baby. Now he was about five. 00:14:53.889 --> 00:14:56.090 So for five years, he'd just been staring at 00:14:56.090 --> 00:14:58.710 the ceiling. So I can't imagine how heartbreaking 00:14:58.710 --> 00:15:01.490 it must've been to work in one of those facilities. 00:15:01.549 --> 00:15:03.470 So did they ever tell any stories about that 00:15:03.470 --> 00:15:05.690 part of their life? Well, mom always called, 00:15:05.830 --> 00:15:08.610 I mean, some of these were adults, but she always 00:15:08.610 --> 00:15:10.429 called them her kids, you know, and she took 00:15:10.429 --> 00:15:12.909 great care of them. You know, I mean, I've seen 00:15:12.909 --> 00:15:15.669 documentaries on this facility. It's all closed 00:15:15.669 --> 00:15:19.330 now, you know, but. it was it's sad to see that 00:15:19.330 --> 00:15:21.929 somebody would just give up a child you know 00:15:21.929 --> 00:15:25.590 that had a mental deficiency you know just like 00:15:25.590 --> 00:15:28.350 hey i i i can't take them anymore i don't know 00:15:28.350 --> 00:15:30.429 how somebody would do that you know it's like 00:15:30.429 --> 00:15:34.389 um but you know they do it and um you know i 00:15:34.389 --> 00:15:36.470 think you know i i think it weighed on both my 00:15:36.470 --> 00:15:40.409 mom and dad but you know um they're country you 00:15:40.409 --> 00:15:44.070 know country people you know and um you know 00:15:44.070 --> 00:15:46.529 just tough as nails i mean you know they just 00:15:47.709 --> 00:15:51.570 both gave so much. Well, it's interesting now. 00:15:51.669 --> 00:15:55.350 I think this was kind of really tacked onto, 00:15:55.370 --> 00:15:57.429 I think, a lot of the veterans that came home, 00:15:57.470 --> 00:15:59.769 a lot of our amputees, and not so much the mental 00:15:59.769 --> 00:16:03.590 health side, but just the adaptive athlete. We 00:16:03.590 --> 00:16:06.289 started seeing prosthetics and these amazing 00:16:06.289 --> 00:16:10.929 wounded warriors doing all kinds of things, from 00:16:10.929 --> 00:16:15.240 mud runs to Olympic events, all kinds. And I 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:18.620 think that then pulled forward a lot of the different, 00:16:19.299 --> 00:16:22.080 I forget the term now, but the Down syndrome 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:25.500 and cerebral palsy, and you start seeing amazing 00:16:25.500 --> 00:16:27.679 people from those groups. There's a guy on the 00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:32.019 show, Chris Nikic, who's the first. young man 00:16:32.019 --> 00:16:34.299 with down syndrome to do the Hawaiian Ironman 00:16:34.299 --> 00:16:37.679 triathlon. I actually watched that documentary. 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:41.460 Amazing individual. Amazing. Exactly. So how 00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:43.820 many people from that institution actually, like 00:16:43.820 --> 00:16:45.519 you said, given the right environment, would 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:49.879 actually be thriving in society? Yeah. What about 00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:52.259 the tow truck element? I think we talked about 00:16:52.259 --> 00:16:54.779 this when we spoke a couple weeks ago, but I 00:16:54.779 --> 00:16:57.980 think one of the least acknowledged professions 00:16:57.980 --> 00:17:02.009 when it comes to the exposure to trauma are our 00:17:02.009 --> 00:17:03.929 tow truck drivers because they're there on most 00:17:03.929 --> 00:17:05.750 of these grisly scenes. Sometimes they're even 00:17:05.750 --> 00:17:08.390 transporting the vehicle back with the, you know, 00:17:08.390 --> 00:17:11.910 the occupants still in it. Did that ever affect 00:17:11.910 --> 00:17:14.369 your dad or did he ever talk about that? Oh, 00:17:14.430 --> 00:17:16.549 well, I knew all about, you know, all the incidents 00:17:16.549 --> 00:17:18.609 that happened out there because he would always 00:17:18.609 --> 00:17:20.589 share them with me. And, you know, I don't remember 00:17:20.589 --> 00:17:22.809 if I would ask questions or he would just share, 00:17:22.950 --> 00:17:25.789 but a lot of it was newsworthy. I mean, my dad, 00:17:25.990 --> 00:17:28.390 I mean, it was tractor trailers that crashed 00:17:28.390 --> 00:17:30.900 on the Tappan Zee Bridge that, went through the 00:17:30.900 --> 00:17:34.079 railing and went into the Hudson River and, you 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:41.599 know, rollovers with dismemberment. And my dad 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:43.880 was actually shot at one day, responded to a 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:47.559 call on a Satin Z bridge. And he actually, he 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:50.720 was responding to a call and one of the mutts 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:53.720 decided, you know, he wasn't yielding right away. 00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:59.700 And he fired shots at the tow truck. They ran 00:17:59.700 --> 00:18:01.759 red lights and sirens because they were fire 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:05.539 and towing, kind of like the Port Authority for 00:18:05.539 --> 00:18:08.420 New York and New Jersey, you know, George Washington 00:18:08.420 --> 00:18:11.900 Bridge and whatnot. And anyway, he rolled it 00:18:11.900 --> 00:18:14.359 over on a bridge and, you know, by the grace 00:18:14.359 --> 00:18:16.460 of God, he survived it, you know, and this guy 00:18:16.460 --> 00:18:18.900 ended up going to prison. But yeah, he's seen 00:18:18.900 --> 00:18:23.559 a lot out there. He met a lot of people out there, 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:27.720 too. I mean, from the rock band Kiss. molly hatchett 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:30.220 ted nugent you know i mean a lot of different 00:18:30.220 --> 00:18:32.779 people broke down on a bridge at different times 00:18:32.779 --> 00:18:35.960 and you know it was it was cool and or an ice 00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:38.140 cream truck would roll over and you know next 00:18:38.140 --> 00:18:40.039 thing you know our uh well the freezer went bad 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:43.180 on the ice cream truck and we got a um freezer 00:18:43.180 --> 00:18:46.019 full of ice cream you know which was kind of 00:18:46.019 --> 00:18:48.299 good stuff you know so it wasn't all negative 00:18:48.299 --> 00:18:50.759 you know it was good he worked there for 28 years 00:18:50.759 --> 00:18:53.720 you know and uh you know he provided for his 00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:58.460 family i mean he was I think if he could do it 00:18:58.460 --> 00:19:00.759 all over again, you know, start from day one, 00:19:00.819 --> 00:19:03.079 he would have pursued the New York City Fire 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:05.500 Department like I did because he was a volunteer 00:19:05.500 --> 00:19:08.980 firefighter as a kid and was a life member in 00:19:08.980 --> 00:19:13.559 Rockland County. But, you know, it is what it 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:17.059 is. It was a good paying job, you know, so with 00:19:17.059 --> 00:19:21.279 good benefits. Well, going back to, again, your 00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:23.279 early life, what were you playing and doing as 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:26.859 far as sports and exercise? Well, we pretty much 00:19:26.859 --> 00:19:29.900 played everything, you know, as far as organized 00:19:29.900 --> 00:19:33.480 sports. I mean, I played some basketball and 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:37.819 a little bit of baseball, but I always loved 00:19:37.819 --> 00:19:42.759 hockey and hockey was my thing. But dad wanted 00:19:42.759 --> 00:19:44.680 me to play football. I played a little bit of 00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:47.079 lacrosse and he wanted me to play football. I 00:19:47.079 --> 00:19:50.160 mean, I loved football at the time. I loved watching 00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:53.000 it. I grew up a diehard New York Giants fan, 00:19:53.180 --> 00:19:56.039 but I was always drawn to hockey. Mom didn't 00:19:56.039 --> 00:20:00.240 drive, dad drove, dad was working. And it just 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:03.079 never materialized for me. I didn't start skating, 00:20:03.180 --> 00:20:05.720 like just like ice skating, probably ninth, tenth 00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:08.920 grade when I started ice skating. And, you know, 00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:12.460 eventually, you know, I started playing in men's 00:20:12.460 --> 00:20:15.299 leagues and stuff. But, you know, we played as 00:20:15.299 --> 00:20:18.279 a kid. We played, you know, street hockey. We 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:23.119 played roller hockey. We played wiffle ball. 00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:27.119 uh just whatever football whatever whatever it 00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:29.740 was like i say from daylight to sundown we were 00:20:29.740 --> 00:20:32.420 out there you know there was a elementary school 00:20:32.420 --> 00:20:35.240 that wasn't too far from us and you know we would 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:37.380 all the sports would take place there in that 00:20:37.380 --> 00:20:39.779 parking lot and you know we would challenge the 00:20:39.779 --> 00:20:41.839 next neighborhood over and then next neighborhood 00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:44.299 over and we would travel and it was it was just 00:20:44.299 --> 00:20:47.559 a lot of fun you know i was actually having this 00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:49.720 conversation with my wife yesterday i don't know 00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:51.839 if you've kind of aware this aware of this if 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:54.549 your kids are the right age but There is a resurgence 00:20:54.549 --> 00:20:58.650 of 80s and 90s fashion, music, I mean, all things 00:20:58.650 --> 00:21:02.930 our generation. But because these poor kids have 00:21:02.930 --> 00:21:04.849 been raised with devices and all these other 00:21:04.849 --> 00:21:08.769 areas, they haven't refound that community element 00:21:08.769 --> 00:21:11.789 that there is no cell phone. You go to the park 00:21:11.789 --> 00:21:14.230 and when the lights finally go out, then you 00:21:14.230 --> 00:21:16.710 head home. Or like you said, challenging other 00:21:16.710 --> 00:21:19.470 kids. I mean, for example, the football games 00:21:19.470 --> 00:21:22.279 we used to play. You just put down a jersey, 00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:25.500 your sweatshirt, made goals there, and that's 00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:27.519 it. You've got a football pitch. And you look 00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:30.440 at the specialization and the pressure that are 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:34.279 on high school athletes now, that simple love 00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:36.759 of play, that simple love of just hanging out 00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:38.819 and shooting the shit and sometimes being bored 00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:41.980 and getting rained on and being cold, they haven't 00:21:41.980 --> 00:21:44.140 refound that. So even though our music and our 00:21:44.140 --> 00:21:46.059 pop culture and all that stuff is great and our 00:21:46.059 --> 00:21:49.079 fashion. I wish that they could experience what 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:51.200 we did where there was none of this electronic 00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:54.599 distraction and you were out there just experiencing 00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:58.160 life moment by moment. Absolutely. You know, 00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:02.039 I mean, because you just see the disconnect, 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:05.079 you know, today. You know, it's like you go out 00:22:05.079 --> 00:22:08.039 to dinner with anybody, you know, and the phones 00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:10.680 are there and, you know, are they engaged or 00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:14.099 not engaged and distractions and, you know, it's... 00:22:14.850 --> 00:22:16.809 You know, we're definitely missing something. 00:22:16.930 --> 00:22:19.710 I mean, the Internet is a fascinating place, 00:22:19.910 --> 00:22:21.750 you know, to gain a lot of information. But at 00:22:21.750 --> 00:22:24.549 the same time, I think there's a huge downfall 00:22:24.549 --> 00:22:29.549 and disconnect from it. You know, I watch it 00:22:29.549 --> 00:22:32.710 with my own kids for a while, you know, that 00:22:32.710 --> 00:22:34.569 they didn't know how to, you know, pick up the 00:22:34.569 --> 00:22:37.109 phone and tell, you know, coach, hey, coach, 00:22:37.190 --> 00:22:39.589 I can't make the game. You know, I'm sick or 00:22:39.589 --> 00:22:41.819 whatever. You know, you got to text. they they 00:22:41.819 --> 00:22:43.920 don't know they didn't know how to do that at 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:47.079 the time now both of them you know um they both 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:49.900 work in a profession now that they they they're 00:22:49.900 --> 00:22:51.880 on the phone all the time and they talk face 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:54.680 to face and communication skills are there but 00:22:54.680 --> 00:22:57.279 i think that you know it's lacking a lot you 00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:00.519 know absolutely well speaking of occupations 00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:03.299 were you already thinking of the fire service 00:23:03.299 --> 00:23:04.660 when you were in high school or was there something 00:23:04.660 --> 00:23:09.299 else wow i probably Knew I wanted to be a firefighter 00:23:09.299 --> 00:23:13.000 since I was 14 years of age, if not sooner. I 00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:15.059 knew specifically I wanted to be a New York City 00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:22.460 firefighter. It was more than a fascination for 00:23:22.460 --> 00:23:26.400 me. You know, it was a calling, you know. And 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:29.900 I didn't know but one New York City firefighter 00:23:29.900 --> 00:23:33.200 at the time. And, you know, like growing up. 00:23:34.670 --> 00:23:36.730 I don't know. I was just drawn to it, you know, 00:23:36.730 --> 00:23:39.509 so I was into, I joined a fire explorer program 00:23:39.509 --> 00:23:43.089 at 14 years of age. So through the Boy Scouts 00:23:43.089 --> 00:23:45.369 of America, they have the explorer program and 00:23:45.369 --> 00:23:48.730 there's a fire program. There's a police program. 00:23:49.329 --> 00:23:51.109 I don't know what other kind of programs there 00:23:51.109 --> 00:23:52.430 are, but there's, you know, there's a lot of 00:23:52.430 --> 00:23:54.910 programs in the Boy Scouts of America. And I 00:23:54.910 --> 00:23:56.690 know the Boy Scouts have changed through the 00:23:56.690 --> 00:24:00.049 years. And, um, but you know, that was, that 00:24:00.049 --> 00:24:03.039 was it. great great thing for us you know and 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:05.539 and again growing up in a very diverse community 00:24:05.539 --> 00:24:08.460 i mean it was everybody that was there you know 00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:10.819 like i grew up you know with spanish friends 00:24:10.819 --> 00:24:13.480 black friends you know white friends you know 00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:17.500 female friends and you know we all did we disagree 00:24:17.500 --> 00:24:21.099 at times yeah we disagreed but we all got back 00:24:21.099 --> 00:24:23.140 in there and did it together and you know i mean 00:24:23.140 --> 00:24:26.359 we were just learning what the job was. We weren't 00:24:26.359 --> 00:24:28.440 learning the job. We were learning what the job 00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:30.299 was. We were the helpers, you know, standing 00:24:30.299 --> 00:24:34.259 as close as you can get to that fire line, you 00:24:34.259 --> 00:24:37.319 know, without actually being involved in it. 00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:40.059 You know, I mean, we were exterior and, you know, 00:24:40.059 --> 00:24:42.680 we had, you know, training groups that we went 00:24:42.680 --> 00:24:45.799 to and seminars and, you know, we bonded with 00:24:45.799 --> 00:24:47.799 other fire explorers, you know, on the other 00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:51.539 side of the county, Westchester County. And it 00:24:51.539 --> 00:24:55.250 was just, it was. It was a great foundation because 00:24:55.250 --> 00:24:58.789 so many of my friends that were involved in this 00:24:58.789 --> 00:25:03.849 became firefighters and paid firefighters and 00:25:03.849 --> 00:25:09.549 police officers. And I would say probably 90 00:25:09.549 --> 00:25:12.470 % of those that were in the Fire Explorer program 00:25:12.470 --> 00:25:15.970 went on to become volunteer firefighters. So 00:25:15.970 --> 00:25:22.170 being a firefighter, it's not about a paycheck. 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:24.880 It really isn't. You know, in the words of the 00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:28.200 late great Joseph DiBernardo, professionalism 00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:30.220 is an attitude. It has nothing to do with the 00:25:30.220 --> 00:25:35.339 paycheck. And, you know, many, many guys that 00:25:35.339 --> 00:25:38.980 I worked with in the volunteer fire service were 00:25:38.980 --> 00:25:44.539 just as good as FDNY. So, you know, I started 00:25:44.539 --> 00:25:47.519 out in a fire explorer program and I read Firehouse 00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:51.549 Magazine monthly. And back when we used to read 00:25:51.549 --> 00:25:54.109 magazines, we're talking about the web and the 00:25:54.109 --> 00:25:57.829 internet and all this. And yeah, I'd get it once 00:25:57.829 --> 00:26:01.390 a month and I'd read it cover to cover. And somewhere 00:26:01.390 --> 00:26:04.750 along the way, I read Report for Mention Company 00:26:04.750 --> 00:26:07.069 82, the famous book Report for Mention Company 00:26:07.069 --> 00:26:11.349 82. And that really drove me. And I'm like, this 00:26:11.349 --> 00:26:13.329 is what I want to do. I mean, it's a fiction 00:26:13.329 --> 00:26:18.680 book. I knew Dennis Smith. A little bit, you 00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:21.900 know, I knew quite a few of the characters that 00:26:21.900 --> 00:26:25.839 their names were changed in the book later down 00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:28.960 the road. And it just I'm like, this is it. I 00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:30.619 want to be a New York City firefighter. And I 00:26:30.619 --> 00:26:32.359 knew I couldn't be a New York City firefighter 00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:35.440 until I was 21. Well, I go back and I read in 00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:38.779 Firehouse magazine and I read at some point and 00:26:38.779 --> 00:26:42.319 this is 13, 14 years of age and read this at 00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:47.190 16, 16 and a half years of age. I'm reading Firehouse 00:26:47.190 --> 00:26:50.710 and I see an article on the DOD Fire Academy, 00:26:50.910 --> 00:26:55.789 Department of Defense Fire Academy. And I was 00:26:55.789 --> 00:26:58.450 like, I'm going to become an Air Force firefighter 00:26:58.450 --> 00:27:00.930 first. And I go discuss this with my dad. My 00:27:00.930 --> 00:27:05.130 dad was an Army vet. And I went to him and all 00:27:05.130 --> 00:27:07.009 he said to me is make sure you get a guaranteed 00:27:07.009 --> 00:27:09.470 job. Whatever you do, get a guaranteed job. Get 00:27:09.470 --> 00:27:12.650 it in writing. And I went to the recruiter in 00:27:12.650 --> 00:27:17.150 Spring Valley, New York at 17. And I signed a 00:27:17.150 --> 00:27:20.410 delayed enlistment contract at 17 to become, 00:27:20.490 --> 00:27:22.769 for four years, to become an Air Force firefighter. 00:27:22.910 --> 00:27:25.650 And I knew the end game was that I still wanted 00:27:25.650 --> 00:27:28.470 to be a New York City firefighter. So that was, 00:27:28.609 --> 00:27:33.230 that's like the drive. And at 18, when I became 00:27:33.230 --> 00:27:36.890 18, I still didn't graduate high school yet. 00:27:36.930 --> 00:27:40.990 At 18, I have a January birthday, so I became 00:27:40.990 --> 00:27:46.380 a full -fledged volunteer firefighter. I graduated, 00:27:46.460 --> 00:27:51.920 I don't know, June of 1985 and August of 1985. 00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:54.420 I was in boot camp in Laughlin Air Force Base 00:27:54.420 --> 00:27:57.920 in Texas. Shortly after that, I was at Chanute 00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:02.559 Air Force Base in Illinois for fire school. And 00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:05.059 my first duty assignment, my last name is Kool. 00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:09.180 Guess where they stationed me? Alaska. Alaska. 00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:12.279 Because you told me already. Yes. Yeah, I know. 00:28:12.339 --> 00:28:15.529 But for a guest, I think it's... You know, I 00:28:15.529 --> 00:28:18.690 was like Alaska. And I put down from, I mean, 00:28:18.730 --> 00:28:21.190 my dream sheet, not that I think they really 00:28:21.190 --> 00:28:23.910 listen, I put down from New York to Florida, 00:28:23.990 --> 00:28:28.509 really hoping to be in Florida. But I ended up 00:28:28.509 --> 00:28:32.650 in Alaska. And I was active duty during the Graham 00:28:32.650 --> 00:28:34.569 Rudman administration where they started closing 00:28:34.569 --> 00:28:37.470 bases and extended tours and everything. And 00:28:37.470 --> 00:28:39.970 I was supposed to be there for two years. And 00:28:39.970 --> 00:28:42.069 I got involuntarily extended to three years. 00:28:42.970 --> 00:28:46.589 I worked for a great fire chief there, Bud Rotroff. 00:28:46.789 --> 00:28:54.470 He was a civilian chief, and he was a smokejumper. 00:28:54.569 --> 00:28:58.730 He was really into wildland firefighting. The 00:28:58.730 --> 00:29:01.549 Air Force, we take care of both the structural 00:29:01.549 --> 00:29:04.410 component on the base and the aircraft frames, 00:29:04.690 --> 00:29:09.680 and we run mutual aid. and we did wildland firefighting 00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:12.119 you know so i was a red car holder i was on a 00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:15.579 strike team i've been on thousands and thousands 00:29:15.579 --> 00:29:18.980 of acres of wildland burning and you know after 00:29:18.980 --> 00:29:20.779 becoming a new york city firefighter down the 00:29:20.779 --> 00:29:23.980 road i knew back then wildland firefighting wasn't 00:29:23.980 --> 00:29:27.819 me because you had this monster of a fire burning 00:29:27.819 --> 00:29:31.059 and you're taking your one lick with your pulaski 00:29:31.059 --> 00:29:33.420 and you're moving down the line and you're moving 00:29:33.420 --> 00:29:35.160 down the line and sometimes you really never 00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:38.569 see headway You know, it takes a while to see 00:29:38.569 --> 00:29:42.049 headway. You got a bunch of row frames going 00:29:42.049 --> 00:29:44.630 or taxpayers going. You might be there for a 00:29:44.630 --> 00:29:46.569 couple hours, but you're not there for a couple 00:29:46.569 --> 00:29:50.990 days, weeks, you know. But it was amazing. I 00:29:50.990 --> 00:29:55.049 mean, I seen, you know, some pretty good fires 00:29:55.049 --> 00:29:57.190 when I was up there. We ran mutual aid into, 00:29:57.329 --> 00:30:00.529 well, get this town, Moose Creek, Alaska. That 00:30:00.529 --> 00:30:03.109 was the next little town outside of the base 00:30:03.109 --> 00:30:05.940 that was at Eielson Air Force Base. And we would 00:30:05.940 --> 00:30:08.180 run mutual aid in there. We'd run mutual aid 00:30:08.180 --> 00:30:11.720 into North Pole. Yeah, that North Pole, Alaska, 00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:14.440 it was like where Santa Claus's house was, was, 00:30:14.460 --> 00:30:16.660 you know, mutual aid area for us. And we were 00:30:16.660 --> 00:30:20.299 35 miles south of Fairbanks. And, yeah, we did 00:30:20.299 --> 00:30:23.240 a lot of great stuff. And, you know, I got to 00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:27.220 deploy from there. I was in Korea. We went over 00:30:27.220 --> 00:30:31.799 to Team Spirit. I lived on a Korean Army base 00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:35.589 in a tent. for a couple of months and we got 00:30:35.589 --> 00:30:38.549 to support our A -10s over there. And I got to 00:30:38.549 --> 00:30:41.730 see some really old aircraft that the Koreans 00:30:41.730 --> 00:30:44.890 were still flying, F -86s and F -4s. And I was 00:30:44.890 --> 00:30:47.089 like, well, I've seen these in history books 00:30:47.089 --> 00:30:49.650 and, you know, documentaries, but I've never 00:30:49.650 --> 00:30:52.289 seen them firsthand. And, you know, it was, it 00:30:52.289 --> 00:30:54.789 was, you know, pretty, you know, pretty cool 00:30:54.789 --> 00:30:59.579 to see that. It's funny when you're purely municipal 00:30:59.579 --> 00:31:02.700 as far as firefighting. I went to Anaheim, California 00:31:02.700 --> 00:31:05.160 for a few years as a tillerman out there. And 00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:08.039 they had a lot of guys that were CDF previously. 00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:10.839 So they loved the wildland stuff and they'd be 00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:13.099 on all the strike teams. So when I got hired, 00:31:13.180 --> 00:31:16.380 we did all the wildland training as well. And 00:31:16.380 --> 00:31:20.039 when you actually are an urban firefighter and 00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:22.380 you start learning how to cut line. it gives 00:31:22.380 --> 00:31:25.380 you an entirely different appreciation for our 00:31:25.380 --> 00:31:27.180 hot shots, our smoke jumpers, for everyone else 00:31:27.180 --> 00:31:29.240 that's out there. Because progressive hose line 00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:31.480 is not so bad, but cut in line, like you said, 00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:34.079 you just feel like going into a high -rise fire 00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:36.839 with a spray bottle. It seems almost insane, 00:31:37.019 --> 00:31:40.259 but it is tiring, tiring work. And those guys 00:31:40.259 --> 00:31:43.019 do it for weeks and weeks and weeks. And when 00:31:43.019 --> 00:31:45.359 you're walking through the tundra, and we're 00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:47.299 up there in Alaska, and you've got the frost 00:31:47.299 --> 00:31:50.539 line and everything. So I've seen... 45 below 00:31:50.539 --> 00:31:52.839 zero in Alaska when I was there, and I'd seen 00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:56.759 90 degrees. And one wildland fire that we had 00:31:56.759 --> 00:31:58.759 up there, it was like during the summertime, 00:31:59.019 --> 00:32:02.039 lightning strikes and everything. And so the 00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:05.619 frost line, you're walking on this tundra, and 00:32:05.619 --> 00:32:07.759 next thing you know, you're swallowed up. you're 00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:09.839 just swallowed up to your waist and you know 00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:12.920 because it's so soft and and it tires you out 00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:15.480 you know it's just like but i have a i have a 00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:18.160 huge respect for wildland firefighters it's just 00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:21.920 not me you know i i'd rather you know be you 00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:27.420 know uh working in the ghetto you know and fighting 00:32:27.420 --> 00:32:30.440 fires you know i love you know like i just love 00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:33.140 that park you know and it's you know there's 00:32:33.140 --> 00:32:37.380 a lot of fires there and um you know In my time, 00:32:37.539 --> 00:32:39.920 I got to see a lot of fires in the city of New 00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:45.160 York, but I'd rather do that than go out on thousands 00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:50.710 of acres of wildland fire. I was the same. I 00:32:50.710 --> 00:32:52.609 got so much respect for them. Same as law enforcement. 00:32:52.730 --> 00:32:54.869 Like I'm proud of you for running towards bullets, 00:32:54.930 --> 00:32:57.029 but I'll just go into burning buildings and cut 00:32:57.029 --> 00:33:01.049 people out of cars. But yeah, it's every time 00:33:01.049 --> 00:33:03.069 we had a strike team go out, I'd stay on the 00:33:03.069 --> 00:33:06.170 truck. We protect the city. Let the boys go out. 00:33:06.730 --> 00:33:12.490 I like the hood. I do. All right. Well then just 00:33:12.490 --> 00:33:14.650 before we progress forward. When you reflect 00:33:14.650 --> 00:33:18.289 back now after your career in FDNY, what were 00:33:18.289 --> 00:33:21.890 some of the elements of the Air Force firefighting 00:33:21.890 --> 00:33:23.329 that you were taught at the beginning of your 00:33:23.329 --> 00:33:27.589 career that actually carried over? Well, I mean, 00:33:27.609 --> 00:33:29.569 there's a lot, but you never let on with the 00:33:29.569 --> 00:33:31.369 New York City Fire Department. You know, it's 00:33:31.369 --> 00:33:34.609 like, hey, I was, you know, what'd you do? Well, 00:33:34.730 --> 00:33:37.769 so let me just say this. So let's back up to 00:33:37.769 --> 00:33:44.619 Alaska. So I'm up in Alaska. I flew home in 1987 00:33:44.619 --> 00:33:46.819 to take the written test for FDNY. Everybody 00:33:46.819 --> 00:33:49.460 knew I was going home to take the written test. 00:33:49.859 --> 00:33:54.519 And I actually took a detail. I worked in a bombing 00:33:54.519 --> 00:33:58.920 range for 30 days. So every Monday morning, I'd 00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:02.920 get on a CH -3 and I'd fly out to a remote site 00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:05.599 where they would drop bombs and strafe targets 00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:08.519 with the A -10s. And I went out there and I brought 00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:11.300 all the civil service tests with me for FDNY 00:34:11.300 --> 00:34:14.320 that a buddy gave to me. And I did them over 00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:17.280 and over and over again. My only job out there 00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:20.780 was I was fire suppression. So if we got a huge 00:34:20.780 --> 00:34:23.219 fire out there, which would have been a wild 00:34:23.219 --> 00:34:26.059 land from a munition strike, you know, I would 00:34:26.059 --> 00:34:28.940 call it in and try to contain it as best as I 00:34:28.940 --> 00:34:31.519 could, you know. But I'd sit there with a pilot 00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:34.519 in the air traffic control tower as he cleared 00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:36.880 the aircraft in hot. strafe their targets or 00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:40.019 drop their bombs and i just did this over and 00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:43.159 over and over so i flew home in 1987 back to 00:34:43.159 --> 00:34:50.039 alaska um i i really loved you know the air force 00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:52.940 and you know doing this but i wanted more i wanted 00:34:52.940 --> 00:34:57.920 a lot of fire and the military is in the prevention 00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:00.920 mode you know very very you know like building 00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:06.280 inspection um extinguishers um Where you work 00:35:06.280 --> 00:35:08.980 in, you know, like the city, you know, there 00:35:08.980 --> 00:35:13.739 could be faulty wiring, no smoke detectors, you 00:35:13.739 --> 00:35:15.820 know, and, you know, it doesn't make it right. 00:35:15.940 --> 00:35:17.639 I mean, I'm there in a life -saving business, 00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:20.880 but at the same time, you know, I want to go 00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:24.400 to fires. I don't want to sit, you know, in any 00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:28.639 office all day, if you will. And gained a lot 00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:31.039 of knowledge, worked with a lot of great guys, 00:35:31.139 --> 00:35:35.730 but I wanted more. You know, we did a lot of 00:35:35.730 --> 00:35:38.269 different training. You know, I mean, stuff that 00:35:38.269 --> 00:35:40.989 I would have never, ever got to experience. You 00:35:40.989 --> 00:35:43.530 know, I mean, I drove the world's largest fire 00:35:43.530 --> 00:35:47.429 truck, you know, at the time. It was 6 ,100 gallons 00:35:47.429 --> 00:35:51.809 of water, 515 gallons of foam. It had two engines, 00:35:51.949 --> 00:35:54.969 two transmissions. I mean, it was phenomenal. 00:35:55.190 --> 00:35:57.610 It was made for a large -frame aircraft. you 00:35:57.610 --> 00:36:01.130 know i got to see technology change and and you 00:36:01.130 --> 00:36:04.230 know like where joysticks came into our our um 00:36:04.230 --> 00:36:08.030 our crash fire rescue trucks i know it's off 00:36:08.030 --> 00:36:10.710 now but my time it was crash fire rescue you 00:36:10.710 --> 00:36:13.030 know and it's it's still crash fire rescue it 00:36:13.030 --> 00:36:15.650 used to be you know you crash we dash you know 00:36:15.650 --> 00:36:19.269 and uh i mean you're not looking for people to 00:36:19.269 --> 00:36:22.610 die but i mean you know it's like um you know 00:36:22.610 --> 00:36:25.050 it was exciting to say the least you know and 00:36:25.050 --> 00:36:28.139 and uh you know we trained in all aspects you 00:36:28.139 --> 00:36:30.920 know i mean you know there's there's not a lot 00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:35.119 of you know uh even major city departments that 00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:37.900 get to say hey you know what i had barf training 00:36:37.900 --> 00:36:40.460 or crash fire rescue training you know i got 00:36:40.460 --> 00:36:43.239 i got to do it i got to play i got to play with 00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:45.679 so many different types of aircraft i mean we 00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:49.059 had to know how to you know open the canopy uh 00:36:49.059 --> 00:36:53.409 safety to see uh safety to guns um you know and 00:36:53.409 --> 00:36:55.889 then egress the pilot you know from it and i've 00:36:55.889 --> 00:36:59.409 been all the way up uh i mean at the time i mean 00:36:59.409 --> 00:37:01.789 everything evolves you know we have f -35s and 00:37:01.789 --> 00:37:04.150 everything now but i've been on the space shuttle 00:37:04.150 --> 00:37:07.070 not in space but i've been in endeavor you know 00:37:07.070 --> 00:37:09.050 i've been in a cockpit of endeavor you know i 00:37:09.050 --> 00:37:12.050 got to see it and you know see you know like 00:37:12.050 --> 00:37:15.750 some basic egress training for it you know which 00:37:15.750 --> 00:37:19.190 is pretty cool you know but again still i was 00:37:19.190 --> 00:37:25.289 drawn to And so I'm waiting and waiting and waiting 00:37:25.289 --> 00:37:28.409 for FDNY. And I got a little annoyed that my 00:37:28.409 --> 00:37:32.269 tour got extended in Alaska. Unfortunately, my 00:37:32.269 --> 00:37:34.650 base, as great as it was, I mean, it was God's 00:37:34.650 --> 00:37:36.829 country. And I was supposed to take a trip up 00:37:36.829 --> 00:37:39.769 there this past summer. But unfortunately, we 00:37:39.769 --> 00:37:43.050 had my wife's aunt was real sick and she ended 00:37:43.050 --> 00:37:46.809 up passing and we could not go on the trip. um 00:37:46.809 --> 00:37:48.909 but i wanted to get back up and see alaska because 00:37:48.909 --> 00:37:53.530 there's just so much to see um but uh i lost 00:37:53.530 --> 00:37:55.230 my train of thought for a second the squirrel 00:37:55.230 --> 00:37:57.829 got in the brain but uh i thought you had your 00:37:57.829 --> 00:37:59.670 tour extended and you're waiting for it yeah 00:37:59.670 --> 00:38:03.510 yeah so so yeah um the base that i was on had 00:38:03.510 --> 00:38:08.550 the highest alcohol suicide divorce um drugs 00:38:08.550 --> 00:38:11.369 it was number one in everything you know which 00:38:11.369 --> 00:38:14.690 is which is sad but you know you're an 18 year 00:38:14.690 --> 00:38:17.619 old being you know stationed you know halfway 00:38:17.619 --> 00:38:21.380 across the the world you know i mean it was the 00:38:21.380 --> 00:38:24.260 country but i mean i'm closer to alaska than 00:38:24.260 --> 00:38:27.619 i mean to russia than i am to uh to new york 00:38:27.619 --> 00:38:32.739 you know and it was tough and my dad ran into 00:38:32.739 --> 00:38:36.239 uh the fire chief at stewart international airport 00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:41.320 um his name is john sicamani and uh My dad started 00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:44.360 talking to him and he pretty much offered a job 00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:48.619 to me. Just knowing without presenting a resume, 00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:51.739 he just a verbal resume he got from my dad. And 00:38:51.739 --> 00:38:56.139 the firehouse was the same firehouse was also 00:38:56.139 --> 00:39:02.340 the Air Guard firehouse. So I was afforded an 00:39:02.340 --> 00:39:07.599 opportunity to get out of my active duty contract. 00:39:07.980 --> 00:39:11.179 It's called Palace Chase. whatever you have left 00:39:11.179 --> 00:39:13.500 on your active duty contract, you got to double 00:39:13.500 --> 00:39:15.860 it near National Guard or reserve component. 00:39:16.579 --> 00:39:20.260 So I had a year left on my active duty contract 00:39:20.260 --> 00:39:24.679 and I filled out all the paperwork and I got 00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:27.079 this job at Stewart International Airport. So 00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:32.539 except for one week and a month, the same firehouse 00:39:32.539 --> 00:39:36.349 I worked in, I was a civilian. But I wore a military 00:39:36.349 --> 00:39:38.510 uniform. It was kind of weird. You wore a military 00:39:38.510 --> 00:39:42.289 uniform. You had to conform, you know, to military 00:39:42.289 --> 00:39:45.849 standards, you know, weight and facial hair and 00:39:45.849 --> 00:39:48.590 haircuts and all that. But you wore a military 00:39:48.590 --> 00:39:53.329 uniform, but you're really a civilian. And then 00:39:53.329 --> 00:39:56.710 that one week in a month, I was a military guy 00:39:56.710 --> 00:40:00.090 again, you know. which is still cool and and 00:40:00.090 --> 00:40:02.730 i ended up doing just shy of 21 years between 00:40:02.730 --> 00:40:05.869 active duty and air national guard so to say 00:40:05.869 --> 00:40:08.869 that i i didn't like it and i i've been around 00:40:08.869 --> 00:40:10.750 the world you know and with the air national 00:40:10.750 --> 00:40:13.210 guard you know i've i've deployed all over the 00:40:13.210 --> 00:40:16.170 world and uh you know i'm proud to say that i 00:40:16.170 --> 00:40:18.409 got to do that and many of the guys that i went 00:40:18.409 --> 00:40:20.710 was in the air guard with they were new york 00:40:20.710 --> 00:40:23.590 city firemen new york city police officers um 00:40:23.590 --> 00:40:27.809 jersey police officers port authority fire police 00:40:27.809 --> 00:40:32.570 officers. And, you know, just it was another 00:40:32.570 --> 00:40:38.610 circus with different clowns, you know, and it 00:40:38.610 --> 00:40:41.869 was just great, you know. So I worked there for 00:40:41.869 --> 00:40:45.030 four and a half years before I got the call to 00:40:45.030 --> 00:40:48.269 the city. I mean, I took the test in 1987. I 00:40:48.269 --> 00:40:52.519 didn't get hired until July the 5th, 1992. But 00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:56.400 every night that I worked at Stewart as a civilian, 00:40:56.619 --> 00:40:58.760 I ran the air traffic control tower with the 00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:01.719 40 -pound vest on with another firefighter, Chris 00:41:01.719 --> 00:41:05.159 D 'Alessio. Chris and I both would become New 00:41:05.159 --> 00:41:07.440 York City firefighters. We wanted the job so 00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:09.760 bad. And we would run the air traffic control 00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:12.539 tower each night, you know, up and down. Because 00:41:12.539 --> 00:41:16.780 back when we took the physical agility test for 00:41:16.780 --> 00:41:20.550 FD &Y, it was a written score. And you needed 00:41:20.550 --> 00:41:24.150 a high 90, I would say 97 or above on the written. 00:41:24.269 --> 00:41:28.250 And you needed 100 on physical agility to be 00:41:28.250 --> 00:41:33.650 a contender for that job. And I hated it. I absolutely 00:41:33.650 --> 00:41:36.190 hated running with that vest on. It was not pleasure, 00:41:36.349 --> 00:41:40.409 but I wanted that job so bad. And I did it over 00:41:40.409 --> 00:41:43.909 and over again. And the day I took the physical 00:41:43.909 --> 00:41:48.039 agility test in New York Coliseum for FDNY. I 00:41:48.039 --> 00:41:50.300 was on the last part of the evolution. I was 00:41:50.300 --> 00:41:52.340 pulling a dummy. I don't know if it was 100. 00:41:53.860 --> 00:41:56.179 I don't know. We can make an efficient story 00:41:56.179 --> 00:41:58.440 out of this. It was a 250 -pound dummy. I don't 00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:00.000 remember. It was probably a 100 -and -some -pound 00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:02.139 dummy, but I'm pulling them backwards, and I 00:42:02.139 --> 00:42:06.119 fall. And I get up. Well, I'm trying to get up, 00:42:06.139 --> 00:42:08.280 and one of the firefighters, it's a proctor there. 00:42:08.340 --> 00:42:10.400 He's motivating me. Get up. You got this. You 00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:14.360 got this. I got up and I pulled and pulled and 00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:18.119 pulled and I got 100 and I was 1 ,362 on the 00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:23.139 list and I was hired July the 5th, 1992. Beautiful. 00:42:24.579 --> 00:42:26.679 It's funny you talked about the airport because 00:42:26.679 --> 00:42:30.099 I had the complete opposite side of the experience. 00:42:30.260 --> 00:42:32.880 I was in a city department just outside Orlando 00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:37.000 and we were on the first alarm for any incident 00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:40.150 at the airport. Um, they had their own actual 00:42:40.150 --> 00:42:41.650 firefighters, but we were the kind of mutual 00:42:41.650 --> 00:42:45.130 aid. Never, not once the whole time I was there, 00:42:45.170 --> 00:42:47.230 did we ever get any training on what we were 00:42:47.230 --> 00:42:49.389 actually supposed to do once we went into the 00:42:49.389 --> 00:42:51.590 airport. So I don't know if that's the same around, 00:42:51.650 --> 00:42:54.789 around the country, but you know, like all the, 00:42:54.789 --> 00:42:57.789 you know, the, the hazards and I mean, the, you 00:42:57.789 --> 00:42:59.250 know, the do's and the don'ts. So we're talking 00:42:59.250 --> 00:43:02.030 about commercial airline here. Um, yeah, I mean, 00:43:02.050 --> 00:43:04.349 I, I was praying that we'd go just so I could 00:43:04.349 --> 00:43:07.170 see what we were supposed to do, but. Yeah, we 00:43:07.170 --> 00:43:09.050 never did any training at the airport at all. 00:43:09.730 --> 00:43:12.369 Just approaching the airfield is dangerous. You 00:43:12.369 --> 00:43:14.789 know, I mean, it's like, oh, we got a plane that 00:43:14.789 --> 00:43:17.869 crashed. You still have, I mean, planes land 00:43:17.869 --> 00:43:20.130 in, you know, you got to talk to the tower, you 00:43:20.130 --> 00:43:21.829 know, and, you know, like where you're crossing 00:43:21.829 --> 00:43:24.730 and everything. And, you know, even at FDNY, 00:43:24.909 --> 00:43:27.289 we, you know, I worked in a rescue company. We 00:43:27.289 --> 00:43:29.769 received minimal training, you know, with it. 00:43:29.929 --> 00:43:32.030 And, I mean, we were the guys that are coming 00:43:32.030 --> 00:43:34.030 in. I mean, I worked in Rescue 3 at the time. 00:43:35.559 --> 00:43:38.159 At the time, that's why I retired. I mean, we 00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:42.239 responded on any major incident at 1060. Any 00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:44.480 major incident, Rescue 3 was going on. We were 00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:46.139 the collapse rescue for the city of New York 00:43:46.139 --> 00:43:48.800 at the time. So anytime there was a train derailment, 00:43:48.900 --> 00:43:51.820 plane crash, building collapse, you know, we 00:43:51.820 --> 00:43:53.719 were the mother ship coming in, just like Hazmat 00:43:53.719 --> 00:43:56.780 1. That's changed. The matrix has changed after 00:43:56.780 --> 00:43:59.380 9 -11. But, I mean, we would receive minimal 00:43:59.380 --> 00:44:02.099 training because the Port Authority, which is 00:44:02.099 --> 00:44:04.610 basically a police department. They're the ones 00:44:04.610 --> 00:44:08.130 that control, you know, LaGuardia, JFK. And, 00:44:08.269 --> 00:44:10.730 you know, that's in FDNY's jurisdiction, but 00:44:10.730 --> 00:44:14.269 also they have Newark and they have Stewart also 00:44:14.269 --> 00:44:19.210 now. So we're mentioning, you know, the 9 -11. 00:44:19.670 --> 00:44:22.809 You get on a 992. Can you walk me through those 00:44:22.809 --> 00:44:25.250 first few years prior to that, you know, as far 00:44:25.250 --> 00:44:27.230 as where you were assigned and then any kind 00:44:27.230 --> 00:44:31.070 of career incidents that you ran? OK, so, you 00:44:31.070 --> 00:44:34.349 know, prior to 9 -11. So let's go back to report 00:44:34.349 --> 00:44:38.510 from engine company 82. So because it was like, 00:44:38.630 --> 00:44:43.449 how did this happen? You know, so anyway, I don't 00:44:43.449 --> 00:44:48.789 know, 82 from 52 from 72. I just I think I'm 00:44:48.789 --> 00:44:52.010 going to an engine company in the Bronx that 00:44:52.010 --> 00:44:54.889 my dad was friendly with the lieutenant in this 00:44:54.889 --> 00:44:56.730 company. And he's like, yeah, I'm getting your 00:44:56.730 --> 00:44:59.340 son there to this house. It's a great house. 00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:02.579 The assignments are coming down that day, and 00:45:02.579 --> 00:45:07.119 I hear 19 truck. I'm like, I have no idea where 00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:10.960 19 truck is in Manhattan. Is it the Bronx? So 00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:14.460 one of my buddies is one of my instructors there, 00:45:14.659 --> 00:45:17.760 Bob McMonaco. God rest his soul. We lost him 00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:21.039 a couple of years ago. He was a great guy. He 00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:23.880 was a member of 83 Engine in the Bronx. He was 00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:28.539 out teaching at the Rock. And he taught CPR and 00:45:28.539 --> 00:45:33.659 ropes. And I didn't think that you could hear 00:45:33.659 --> 00:45:37.079 so many F -bombs when you were getting CPR class. 00:45:37.380 --> 00:45:40.599 But I, the one day between him and Lieutenant 00:45:40.599 --> 00:45:43.659 Woods, we probably heard in a 45 -minute class, 00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:46.480 we probably heard 80 to 100 F -bombs. It's like 00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:49.659 you get the F in compression and F in breath 00:45:49.659 --> 00:45:54.559 and check his F in pulse. But anyway, so. Bobby 00:45:54.559 --> 00:45:57.599 or Wacky Mac that they would call him. He goes, 00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:00.980 you know what 19 truck is and how you got there? 00:46:01.019 --> 00:46:03.280 I go, I had no idea. He goes, you're going to 00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:06.480 a great house. You are going to one of the best 00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:10.840 houses on the job. So, well, there was a couple 00:46:10.840 --> 00:46:14.179 of guys I said in my guard unit that were FDNY. 00:46:15.019 --> 00:46:20.300 And one of my friends, Patty Vogt, he was. He 00:46:20.300 --> 00:46:23.300 was a member of 55 Truck. He was banged up and 00:46:23.300 --> 00:46:26.719 he was driving the deputy chief. And that deputy 00:46:26.719 --> 00:46:30.039 chief that he drove was Chief Joseph DiBernardo. 00:46:31.420 --> 00:46:35.579 And so Patty goes to Chief D. one day and he 00:46:35.579 --> 00:46:37.739 goes, hey, I don't know Chief D. at the time. 00:46:38.019 --> 00:46:41.199 And he goes, hey, we got this guy. He's in the 00:46:41.199 --> 00:46:44.139 academy right now. Good guy. He's in the air 00:46:44.139 --> 00:46:46.739 guard unit. I think we get him to a good house. 00:46:48.880 --> 00:46:51.460 He says, yeah. He says, what's his name? He says, 00:46:51.539 --> 00:46:54.139 Jeff Kuhl. He made a little comment about that, 00:46:54.179 --> 00:46:57.139 you know, a little fun. And he's like, I'll see 00:46:57.139 --> 00:46:59.860 what we can do. And I landed on my feet in 19 00:46:59.860 --> 00:47:02.840 truck. And 19 truck is in with 50 engine and 00:47:02.840 --> 00:47:06.460 2 -6 battalion. It's a small battalion. Happens 00:47:06.460 --> 00:47:09.860 to be in the same battalion as 82 engine from 00:47:09.860 --> 00:47:12.420 the famous book, Report from Engine Company 82, 00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:17.599 31 truck. 73 engine and 42 truck. I landed in 00:47:17.599 --> 00:47:20.260 the 6th Division, the best division in the job. 00:47:20.579 --> 00:47:24.559 It's all about the men there and taking care 00:47:24.559 --> 00:47:27.059 of the men and going to fires and doing the right 00:47:27.059 --> 00:47:31.500 thing. It was instilled in me and I'm blessed 00:47:31.500 --> 00:47:35.480 to say that I worked there. I just could never 00:47:35.480 --> 00:47:41.019 get enough of that job. It was everything to 00:47:41.019 --> 00:47:44.610 me. I miss it every day. um you know i would 00:47:44.610 --> 00:47:48.210 have had 30 32 years i would have been on right 00:47:48.210 --> 00:47:51.809 now you know and uh i don't know if i would have 00:47:51.809 --> 00:47:54.030 still been in rescue three but it was it would 00:47:54.030 --> 00:47:56.389 it was a great ride you know unfortunately the 00:47:56.389 --> 00:47:58.909 carpet got pulled out from underneath but um 00:47:58.909 --> 00:48:03.949 flyers that i've been to uh probably my first 00:48:03.949 --> 00:48:08.309 fire i didn't see in in in 19 until i was probably 00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:13.559 I don't know, maybe two or three weeks out of 00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:16.079 the academy. It was a, it was a project type 00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:18.460 fire and it was a, there was a party that night. 00:48:18.500 --> 00:48:20.840 So the majority of the company was off. I was 00:48:20.840 --> 00:48:23.199 working with all details from other houses, but 00:48:23.199 --> 00:48:26.559 you know, it was, you know, like a one room contents 00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:29.539 fire, but it was great, you know, um, get your 00:48:29.539 --> 00:48:35.349 cherry popped and, you know, um, um, Crazy fires 00:48:35.349 --> 00:48:38.269 that I've been on. Here's one on Boston Road, 00:48:38.389 --> 00:48:41.789 82 and 31, first do. I don't know what year this 00:48:41.789 --> 00:48:47.010 was. Still young on a job. 82 and 31 are first 00:48:47.010 --> 00:48:53.250 do. We got the floor above, 15, 19. The fire's 00:48:53.250 --> 00:48:55.269 in the bathroom. I don't even remember if it 00:48:55.269 --> 00:48:57.150 was on the second floor, third floor, whatever, 00:48:57.349 --> 00:48:59.590 but we were on a higher floor. We were above 00:48:59.590 --> 00:49:03.550 them. They're pretty much saying it was a can 00:49:03.550 --> 00:49:06.969 job. We carry a two and a half gallon water extinguisher 00:49:06.969 --> 00:49:11.630 in the truck companies. And they're asking for 00:49:11.630 --> 00:49:14.050 another can. And they're like, 19, you got it. 00:49:14.070 --> 00:49:16.210 I think they knew that, you know, there's a young 00:49:16.210 --> 00:49:18.050 firefighter working, which happens to be me. 00:49:18.530 --> 00:49:22.050 And they're like, hey, you know, can you get, 00:49:22.150 --> 00:49:25.210 you know, drop down at the can, you know? So 00:49:25.210 --> 00:49:28.190 I dropped down and it was like, there's a bunch 00:49:28.190 --> 00:49:30.150 of bodies in the doorway, you know, bodies from 00:49:30.150 --> 00:49:33.380 like other farming. You know, it's crowded. And 00:49:33.380 --> 00:49:35.559 they're not saying pass the can up. They're like, 00:49:35.699 --> 00:49:39.019 get up here. And I go in the bathroom, and I 00:49:39.019 --> 00:49:43.840 can smell like a sweeter smoke. And it's a smell 00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:47.179 that once you smell it, you'll never forget it. 00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:50.460 And I turn a corner, and they're like, get in 00:49:50.460 --> 00:49:52.480 here, kid. And I go in this bathroom, and there 00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:57.980 is a torso burnt up in this tub. And there's 00:49:57.980 --> 00:50:01.179 no head. There's no hands. There's no feet. It's 00:50:01.179 --> 00:50:04.300 just a torso. And, uh, it's like, you know, it's 00:50:04.300 --> 00:50:08.699 like, you know, I guess this is, you know, uh, 00:50:08.860 --> 00:50:12.400 initiation, if you will, baptism, whatever, whatever 00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:16.079 it is, you know what I mean? Um, and it's something 00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:19.760 that's, that's stuck in here, you know, um, it's 00:50:19.760 --> 00:50:23.280 burned in there, that image. Um, I, you know, 00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:25.159 come to fight out down the road, one of the guys 00:50:25.159 --> 00:50:28.360 was reading a newspaper and it was, uh, it was 00:50:28.360 --> 00:50:30.900 a. a drug deal that it was taken out. And, uh, 00:50:31.059 --> 00:50:35.920 you know, it sits with you, you know, um, you 00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:38.840 know, I've been on fires. I remember, uh, probably 00:50:38.840 --> 00:50:40.760 the first year backing up. I know it was the 00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:42.719 first year because my dad was still there and 00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:45.500 it was a Christmas party and another project 00:50:45.500 --> 00:50:50.360 type fire. Um, and, uh, um, we go out and I got 00:50:50.360 --> 00:50:52.599 the can again, usually, you know, the Johnny's 00:50:52.599 --> 00:50:55.510 got the can and, uh, I don't remember who had 00:50:55.510 --> 00:50:58.349 the irons with me, but Mike Buckeye, good friend 00:50:58.349 --> 00:51:00.289 of mine, he retired as a battalion chief. He 00:51:00.289 --> 00:51:06.570 was a big chief in the Marine operations when 00:51:06.570 --> 00:51:12.730 he retired. He actually helped move forward from 00:51:12.730 --> 00:51:16.559 9 -11 and get into the... getting the newer boats 00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:19.159 with FDNY and, you know, newer equipment and 00:51:19.159 --> 00:51:22.099 whatnot. But he had the OV that day. We had a 00:51:22.099 --> 00:51:24.960 report of a fire on an upper floor, seventh to 00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:27.360 eighth floor. He hooked up, reported somebody 00:51:27.360 --> 00:51:31.900 being trapped, possibly a baby. And it was 10 00:51:31.900 --> 00:51:37.039 cents worth of fire. And I remember passing Mike 00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:40.300 as I got up. um to the fire floor he ran up the 00:51:40.300 --> 00:51:43.460 stairs and he had his baby in his arms and skin 00:51:43.460 --> 00:51:46.000 was peeling off of him and he was over overcome 00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:50.679 by smoke and uh he ended up uh succumbing to 00:51:50.679 --> 00:51:52.519 his injuries you know and it was like for 10 00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:54.860 cents worth of fire you know it was like you 00:51:54.860 --> 00:51:58.940 know um seeing quite a few of those you know 00:51:58.940 --> 00:52:03.389 through the years you know seeing I've seen a 00:52:03.389 --> 00:52:05.750 lot of joy, but I mean, I can, you know, like 00:52:05.750 --> 00:52:08.469 you asked me these questions, I can think one 00:52:08.469 --> 00:52:12.969 day, another one up on Boston Road or, you know, 00:52:12.989 --> 00:52:15.130 we get up there and they're already pulling people 00:52:15.130 --> 00:52:18.829 out. I guess 82 and 31 were first due and we're 00:52:18.829 --> 00:52:21.289 second due. And there's a victim laying on the 00:52:21.289 --> 00:52:24.110 street with just skin, like just peeled off this 00:52:24.110 --> 00:52:27.269 person, but they're conscious. And now I have 00:52:27.269 --> 00:52:30.510 a job to do. You know, I mean, I can't deviate 00:52:30.510 --> 00:52:33.300 from my. my tool assignment, you know, and I'm 00:52:33.300 --> 00:52:39.019 not my EMS skills or a poquito, if you will, 00:52:39.099 --> 00:52:41.400 you know, it's like, we weren't even, we weren't 00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:44.039 even CFRD at the time, you know? So I mean, I 00:52:44.039 --> 00:52:47.440 had basic, you know, first aid training and, 00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:49.340 you know, we were waiting for EMS. They weren't 00:52:49.340 --> 00:52:52.239 even part of FDNY at the time during this fire. 00:52:52.780 --> 00:52:55.719 And, you know, I, I continue in, but that's burned 00:52:55.719 --> 00:52:57.719 into my brain. I remember that person, like what 00:52:57.719 --> 00:52:59.980 happened to that person? Did they? Did they live? 00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:04.940 Did they die? More than likely, they probably 00:53:04.940 --> 00:53:08.519 died. I mean, I'm a realist, too. I mean, I've 00:53:08.519 --> 00:53:12.320 seen enough to know. But the kids, they rarely 00:53:12.320 --> 00:53:17.500 sit with you when you see a kid die. In the area 00:53:17.500 --> 00:53:20.800 I worked in, in the South Bronx, you've seen 00:53:20.800 --> 00:53:26.519 a lot of hate for us. I don't know why. At times, 00:53:26.599 --> 00:53:28.780 you know, you see... Like I've had cinder blocks 00:53:28.780 --> 00:53:32.119 thrown off the roof at us, you know, um, staff 00:53:32.119 --> 00:53:34.380 of buckets were extinguished in a car fire in 00:53:34.380 --> 00:53:38.139 one day and early morning and a truck company's 00:53:38.139 --> 00:53:40.139 basically standing and leaning on their folks 00:53:40.139 --> 00:53:41.820 as we, you know, we already popped the doors 00:53:41.820 --> 00:53:44.199 and the engines, you know, wetting the car down. 00:53:44.460 --> 00:53:48.380 And, uh, you don't even hear it coming. You just 00:53:48.380 --> 00:53:51.139 hear, and he was just like, Whoa, what was that? 00:53:51.320 --> 00:53:54.159 And it's, it's a spackle bucket filled with concrete 00:53:54.159 --> 00:53:58.360 and it hits the roof of this. this car and it 00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:03.599 just buckles this car. And if, um, if it would 00:54:03.599 --> 00:54:05.039 have hit one of us, we would have been dead. 00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:07.679 I mean, when the cinder block came off the roof 00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:11.460 of the project, uh, the one night, um, it actually 00:54:11.460 --> 00:54:14.079 indented, um, the rear mount. We had a rear mount, 00:54:14.179 --> 00:54:17.099 a hundred foot rear mount Seagrave. And it actually 00:54:17.099 --> 00:54:20.099 in the, in the, uh, in the jump seats, it, uh, 00:54:20.139 --> 00:54:22.320 put a big, I mean, like, right. I mean, you put 00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:24.719 your hand up and you could feel where the. where 00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:27.599 the cinder block hit it, you know, so it was 00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:31.019 20 stories up and came flying off the roof. My 00:54:31.019 --> 00:54:34.119 first, the night I got off probation, we're back 00:54:34.119 --> 00:54:39.300 in the quarters and it was 4th of July and we're 00:54:39.300 --> 00:54:41.360 stopping traffic, you know, get the engine in 00:54:41.360 --> 00:54:42.880 a truck and we're standing there. We're right 00:54:42.880 --> 00:54:45.239 on a corner of 167 and Washington Avenue, not 00:54:45.239 --> 00:54:48.400 too far from Yankee Stadium. And one of the locals 00:54:48.400 --> 00:54:51.750 decided to throw a blockbuster at us. And it 00:54:51.750 --> 00:54:56.690 blew up right next to our ears. And the locals 00:54:56.690 --> 00:55:01.889 were all for us at the time until one of my brothers 00:55:01.889 --> 00:55:05.730 decided enough was enough. And he took it into 00:55:05.730 --> 00:55:07.670 his own hands and he punched the guy in the head 00:55:07.670 --> 00:55:11.750 and broke his hand. And then it just turned, 00:55:11.889 --> 00:55:14.570 you know, the cops had to come all around our 00:55:14.570 --> 00:55:18.070 quarters and protect us that night. With all 00:55:18.070 --> 00:55:20.170 that being said, though, I've seen a lot of good 00:55:20.170 --> 00:55:22.369 there. You know, you see the kids that come in 00:55:22.369 --> 00:55:26.030 and, you know, I mean, they truly care. And I 00:55:26.030 --> 00:55:28.449 can tell you more about that later on down the 00:55:28.449 --> 00:55:31.590 road, like how. But I wanted to be there. I mean, 00:55:31.610 --> 00:55:33.989 because I knew that these people weren't, you 00:55:33.989 --> 00:55:36.550 know, a lot of them were living in poverty, you 00:55:36.550 --> 00:55:41.110 know. But I was drawn to it because fire duty 00:55:41.110 --> 00:55:44.250 was here and helping my fellow mankind. I didn't 00:55:44.250 --> 00:55:47.400 hate these people, but they ate. they had a dislike 00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:50.559 for us you know in the system that was that was 00:55:50.559 --> 00:55:54.480 there and uh um you know i look at i look at 00:55:54.480 --> 00:55:57.199 the bronx today it's very occupied i mean it's 00:55:57.199 --> 00:55:59.539 it's crazy when i went to work there you know 00:55:59.539 --> 00:56:02.719 in 1992 i mean it was a burnout shell i mean 00:56:02.719 --> 00:56:05.820 we were still going like i remember boston road 00:56:05.820 --> 00:56:08.099 it was burnout building after burnout building 00:56:08.099 --> 00:56:10.739 and guess what they burned again and they burned 00:56:10.739 --> 00:56:14.480 again and they burned again and uh it was crazy 00:56:14.480 --> 00:56:20.610 we went to to a lot of fires. I mean, in almost 00:56:20.610 --> 00:56:23.070 10 years that I was there, I think we went to 00:56:23.070 --> 00:56:25.409 number two in the city the one year. We were 00:56:25.409 --> 00:56:27.869 always in the top 20 in occupied structural work. 00:56:28.329 --> 00:56:31.230 So we were going to fires. It wasn't just like 00:56:31.230 --> 00:56:33.050 we were running. We were going to fires. And 00:56:33.050 --> 00:56:35.130 it was good stuff. And that's where I wanted 00:56:35.130 --> 00:56:38.130 to be. I wanted to help these people. It didn't 00:56:38.130 --> 00:56:39.869 matter what race, color, or creed they were. 00:56:40.389 --> 00:56:45.400 I mean, we were there. I've seen some of my brothers 00:56:45.400 --> 00:56:49.400 take some bumps and bruises along the way, some 00:56:49.400 --> 00:56:51.800 that were career -ending, trying to help these 00:56:51.800 --> 00:56:54.199 people out. But that's what we do when we raise 00:56:54.199 --> 00:56:58.320 our right hand and we take that oath. I had the 00:56:58.320 --> 00:57:00.500 same mentality. Not the very last one I worked 00:57:00.500 --> 00:57:03.659 at was to make sure I was home for my son when 00:57:03.659 --> 00:57:05.579 I was a single dad then. But prior to that, it 00:57:05.579 --> 00:57:07.960 was always, I would argue, some of the most desperate 00:57:07.960 --> 00:57:11.289 areas of the cities. My whole thing was because 00:57:11.289 --> 00:57:12.869 those are the people that need the help the most. 00:57:13.010 --> 00:57:15.489 Yes, I get it that other people pay taxes and, 00:57:15.510 --> 00:57:18.510 you know, they absolutely are entitled to a good 00:57:18.510 --> 00:57:20.610 level of service, but they don't have the emergencies 00:57:20.610 --> 00:57:22.829 as often as, you know, people that are desperate. 00:57:22.929 --> 00:57:24.829 So it works on, you know, the red light districts 00:57:24.829 --> 00:57:27.929 and the gang neighborhoods. And, you know, more 00:57:27.929 --> 00:57:29.769 often than not, like you said, there was gratitude. 00:57:29.809 --> 00:57:32.570 But yeah, I mean, you know, people talk about 00:57:32.570 --> 00:57:35.230 someone was rude to me at work today. Try responding 00:57:35.230 --> 00:57:38.630 to a 911 call. And then they're a piece of shit 00:57:38.630 --> 00:57:41.170 when you get there. Like that is another level 00:57:41.170 --> 00:57:43.030 of my, not to mention, I've never had yours where, 00:57:43.130 --> 00:57:45.030 where, you know, they're trying to kill you. 00:57:45.030 --> 00:57:46.710 One of my friends actually was driving a rescue 00:57:46.710 --> 00:57:49.550 with a, a gang member who had been shot and the 00:57:49.550 --> 00:57:52.099 opposing gang. was chasing them and they were 00:57:52.099 --> 00:57:54.440 shooting at the rescue. So, you know, I mean, 00:57:54.460 --> 00:57:57.320 it happens, but I think this is, this to me was 00:57:57.320 --> 00:57:59.099 always my calling is that I grew up on a farm 00:57:59.099 --> 00:58:00.539 in England for Christ's sake. So it couldn't 00:58:00.539 --> 00:58:04.099 be further from, you know, urban projects, if 00:58:04.099 --> 00:58:07.340 you like. Little culture shock, right? A little 00:58:07.340 --> 00:58:10.360 bit, but that's where the people needed us the 00:58:10.360 --> 00:58:12.519 most. Those are the ones that society had just 00:58:12.519 --> 00:58:14.500 kicked them over and over and over again. People 00:58:14.500 --> 00:58:16.219 say, Oh, they made bad decisions. No, you didn't 00:58:16.219 --> 00:58:18.860 make bad decisions. Your environment gave you. 00:58:19.389 --> 00:58:21.570 only bad decisions to choose from more often 00:58:21.570 --> 00:58:24.250 than not. So yeah, I can totally understand. 00:58:24.869 --> 00:58:27.510 Here's a story. I just think of these stories. 00:58:27.630 --> 00:58:31.409 They just come to me now. It's like, so we always, 00:58:31.550 --> 00:58:34.030 back in the day, you were allowed to do a lot 00:58:34.030 --> 00:58:38.110 more hazing and breaking shops and having fun. 00:58:38.250 --> 00:58:41.210 And it was all great fun. So here's my first 00:58:41.210 --> 00:58:44.809 day in the firehouse. My first day in 50 and 00:58:44.809 --> 00:58:50.699 19. I knock on the door and my fellow probies 00:58:50.699 --> 00:58:54.159 that we carpooled together are waiting for me. 00:58:54.300 --> 00:58:57.619 And I knock on the door, probationary firefighter 00:58:57.619 --> 00:59:00.019 Cole, you know, reporting to see the captain 00:59:00.019 --> 00:59:03.019 or the officer that's on duty. You know, we have 00:59:03.019 --> 00:59:05.079 one captain and three lieutenants for each company, 00:59:05.199 --> 00:59:08.139 you know, captain and three lieutenants for the 00:59:08.139 --> 00:59:10.820 truck and the captain and three lieutenants for 00:59:10.820 --> 00:59:14.320 the engine. And we also had a chief in quarters. 00:59:15.550 --> 00:59:18.349 but uh anyway they're like stay right here by 00:59:18.349 --> 00:59:20.070 the house watch you know we'll be waiting in 00:59:20.070 --> 00:59:21.750 a minute so the next thing you know they're like 00:59:21.750 --> 00:59:23.289 come to the kitchen now you always knock with 00:59:23.289 --> 00:59:25.889 your elbows and i got a cake in my hand and i 00:59:25.889 --> 00:59:29.349 walk to the kitchen and i come in the door and 00:59:29.349 --> 00:59:31.969 and i see all the men sitting around the kitchen 00:59:31.969 --> 00:59:39.110 table and i see a gentleman balls ass naked um 00:59:39.110 --> 00:59:43.809 robin and another gentleman balls ass naked laying 00:59:44.460 --> 00:59:48.079 flat on this huge kitchen table with an apple 00:59:48.079 --> 00:59:49.719 in his mouth and he's rubbing them down with 00:59:49.719 --> 00:59:54.260 olive oil and everybody's sitting around like 00:59:54.260 --> 00:59:56.920 it's nothing you know and they're reading a newspaper 00:59:56.920 --> 01:00:00.500 and talking and then these these guys look up 01:00:00.500 --> 01:00:02.719 and they're like hey what's up you want to be 01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:07.320 next i'm like i'm good you know like but you 01:00:07.320 --> 01:00:11.329 know that's they want to see who you are what 01:00:11.329 --> 01:00:14.329 you're made of you know and how you react i mean 01:00:14.329 --> 01:00:19.250 nothing is sacred in a firehouse absolutely nothing 01:00:19.250 --> 01:00:22.030 is sacred you know and they want to test you 01:00:22.030 --> 01:00:24.250 and when they're not breaking your your balls 01:00:24.250 --> 01:00:26.789 that's when they when you know they don't like 01:00:26.789 --> 01:00:28.869 you you know i mean if they're not talking to 01:00:28.869 --> 01:00:32.070 you breaking your balls but going i mean that 01:00:32.070 --> 01:00:34.570 story that's that's that's a funny story you 01:00:34.570 --> 01:00:36.489 know and i'm like i i don't know what happened 01:00:36.489 --> 01:00:38.829 to this culture you know i talked to you know 01:00:38.829 --> 01:00:41.349 to other firefighters and i talked to you know 01:00:41.349 --> 01:00:44.190 to our our buddy ryan parrot it was a seal and 01:00:44.190 --> 01:00:45.789 some of the stuff that they did i'm like they're 01:00:45.789 --> 01:00:48.429 just demented as we are you know i mean if not 01:00:48.429 --> 01:00:50.710 more so you know hitting each other with stun 01:00:50.710 --> 01:00:55.489 guns and whatnot you know and um but uh so one 01:00:55.489 --> 01:00:58.670 night um we always you know after we clean the 01:00:58.670 --> 01:01:01.449 kitchen three times a day i mean it's always 01:01:01.449 --> 01:01:05.750 clean and after dinner um you know the kitchen's 01:01:05.750 --> 01:01:08.639 mopped everything's washed wiped down Tie the 01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:10.719 garbage up. Take it out of the garbage pail, 01:01:10.780 --> 01:01:12.619 tie it up, leave it by the door. Somebody's going 01:01:12.619 --> 01:01:17.179 to pick it up. Shoot up to the roof with a five 01:01:17.179 --> 01:01:21.400 -gallon pail of water. The dumpster's out in 01:01:21.400 --> 01:01:24.219 front of quarters. You just wait for the operator's 01:01:24.219 --> 01:01:26.500 door. You stay behind a parapet. You hear the 01:01:26.500 --> 01:01:28.840 operator's door open. You just wait for that 01:01:28.840 --> 01:01:31.960 victim to come out, and you dump that five -gallon 01:01:31.960 --> 01:01:34.559 bucket of water onto that victim. A lot of fun, 01:01:34.699 --> 01:01:38.250 until it's you. It's always funny. But you're 01:01:38.250 --> 01:01:41.010 really a giver. But everybody gets a laugh out 01:01:41.010 --> 01:01:44.050 of it. I've hit captains inadvertently with buckets 01:01:44.050 --> 01:01:46.329 of water. I actually dropped a bucket of water 01:01:46.329 --> 01:01:48.389 one day through somebody's windshield. Thank 01:01:48.389 --> 01:01:51.250 God I didn't hit the roof and buckle it, you 01:01:51.250 --> 01:01:55.750 know. But I'm waiting up behind his parapet, 01:01:55.750 --> 01:01:58.849 and I hear this commotion to the right. There's 01:01:58.849 --> 01:02:04.630 souvenir places to the right of 167 and Washington 01:02:04.630 --> 01:02:07.860 Avenue. It's another side street. And I see this 01:02:07.860 --> 01:02:12.699 crowd take off running. And I see another gentleman 01:02:12.699 --> 01:02:15.980 reach into his waistband. And it was like, you're 01:02:15.980 --> 01:02:19.420 watching a low budget movie. And he pulls a handgun 01:02:19.420 --> 01:02:23.199 out of his waistband. And he's shooting it sideways. 01:02:23.340 --> 01:02:25.699 He's holding it out sideways. Not like he would 01:02:25.699 --> 01:02:30.179 fire a handgun. And there had to be 15, 20 people. 01:02:30.260 --> 01:02:35.840 And they turn right on 167. And how one of these... 01:02:36.329 --> 01:02:39.909 people did not get shot i was like i was just 01:02:39.909 --> 01:02:42.289 absolutely amazed to see that you know i was 01:02:42.289 --> 01:02:45.010 like i was amazed and shocked i was like what 01:02:45.010 --> 01:02:49.289 did i just see you know and uh another time i'm 01:02:49.289 --> 01:02:51.969 sitting on house watch and and uh you get that 01:02:51.969 --> 01:02:54.630 bang bang bang you know it's like like you know 01:02:54.630 --> 01:02:56.309 it ain't nothing good you know i open up the 01:02:56.309 --> 01:02:59.989 door man i've been shot and i'm like what and 01:02:59.989 --> 01:03:02.269 he's like yo i've been shot in the head i'm like 01:03:02.269 --> 01:03:06.469 all right i'm in a truck i'm not cfrd sit down 01:03:06.469 --> 01:03:08.789 here on the apparatus floor i hit five bells 01:03:08.789 --> 01:03:12.250 engine you got a verbal ems run uh gunshot wound 01:03:12.250 --> 01:03:15.889 right and the guy got shot in the head i'm like 01:03:15.889 --> 01:03:18.630 you know it's just you know i've seen a lot of 01:03:18.630 --> 01:03:22.869 crazy crazy stuff there um i've been burned you 01:03:22.869 --> 01:03:25.510 know um i mean i got burned up pretty good i 01:03:25.510 --> 01:03:27.929 was i was pulling a ceiling uh one day up on 01:03:27.929 --> 01:03:30.929 eagle avenue and i'm pulling a ceiling and i 01:03:30.929 --> 01:03:32.389 probably should have got off the rig one of my 01:03:32.389 --> 01:03:36.349 buddies wanted on the rig He ended up a great 01:03:36.349 --> 01:03:39.909 guy, Jerry O'Shea. He ended up being a lieutenant 01:03:39.909 --> 01:03:45.170 in Rescue 2 down the road. And he's like, get 01:03:45.170 --> 01:03:47.030 off the rig. He's like, you're going home. I'm 01:03:47.030 --> 01:03:49.369 like, I'm not getting off the rig. I know we're 01:03:49.369 --> 01:03:51.590 going to a job. I mean, this is a hot box. Jerry 01:03:51.590 --> 01:03:53.909 used to say, hot box, Eagle Avenue, hot box. 01:03:54.230 --> 01:03:57.130 Sure enough, it was a hot box, right? So I think 01:03:57.130 --> 01:03:59.269 he went to a second alarm. Anyway, it was top 01:03:59.269 --> 01:04:01.769 floor job and pulling the ceilings. Same time 01:04:01.769 --> 01:04:04.030 I'm pulling, somebody pushed down on top of me, 01:04:04.090 --> 01:04:07.909 and fire just funneled down my neck. This is 01:04:07.909 --> 01:04:13.730 1997, early 97. My wife's a high -risk pregnancy. 01:04:14.010 --> 01:04:19.309 She's pregnant with our first Jeffery, and fire 01:04:19.309 --> 01:04:21.809 funnels down my neck, burned my ears real good. 01:04:22.429 --> 01:04:24.789 One of my buddies, Mike Tierney, grabs the nozzle, 01:04:25.010 --> 01:04:28.849 puts it down my coat, puts me out. I go to the 01:04:28.849 --> 01:04:31.179 hospital. They want me to go to Cornell. They 01:04:31.179 --> 01:04:33.619 want to put me in the burn center. I'm like, 01:04:33.639 --> 01:04:35.219 I can't go to the burn center. My wife's high 01:04:35.219 --> 01:04:40.559 risk. And she's ready to deliver very soon. So 01:04:40.559 --> 01:04:42.920 I promised to stay in a firehouse. I'll come 01:04:42.920 --> 01:04:44.780 down to the burn center tomorrow and let you 01:04:44.780 --> 01:04:46.360 look at me because they talked about grafting 01:04:46.360 --> 01:04:54.760 me. And I got to sidestep that and not make my 01:04:54.760 --> 01:04:59.610 wife deliver early. And anyway. i came home the 01:04:59.610 --> 01:05:02.510 next day i opened the door and i'm supposed to 01:05:02.510 --> 01:05:05.389 be working and she's like and i'm like relax 01:05:05.389 --> 01:05:08.690 you know um i got was it wasn't the first time 01:05:08.690 --> 01:05:10.710 i was burned it was the first time i was burned 01:05:10.710 --> 01:05:14.329 out seriously but you know um still want to do 01:05:14.329 --> 01:05:16.610 it you know i'm like can't get enough of it you 01:05:16.610 --> 01:05:19.170 know it's like the adrenaline rush you know it's 01:05:19.170 --> 01:05:22.130 like it's like no other you know it's but you 01:05:22.130 --> 01:05:26.659 know just you know and i uh I embrace 19 Truck. 01:05:26.860 --> 01:05:30.420 I mean, I just work with a great cast of characters. 01:05:30.679 --> 01:05:32.519 One of the old -timers used to work with Joe 01:05:32.519 --> 01:05:36.340 Selle. God rest his soul. He was a mason, and 01:05:36.340 --> 01:05:40.920 he built the projects, and, you know, he just 01:05:40.920 --> 01:05:44.199 had so many great stories and knowledge of the 01:05:44.199 --> 01:05:51.579 Bronx and just couldn't get enough of... know 01:05:51.579 --> 01:05:53.300 where it was and there's that swirl again it 01:05:53.300 --> 01:05:55.699 ran in my head and like what why why am i here 01:05:55.699 --> 01:05:58.219 you know in 19 truck but he oh here's what he 01:05:58.219 --> 01:06:00.800 said he said you know it's the magnet on the 01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:03.800 roof the magnet on the roof on 167 and washington 01:06:03.800 --> 01:06:07.599 avenue it it brings in a cast of characters right 01:06:07.599 --> 01:06:10.440 and the cast of characters that we brought in 01:06:10.440 --> 01:06:14.079 many of them go on to lead the new york city 01:06:14.079 --> 01:06:17.980 fire department i mean So I've worked with, well, 01:06:18.019 --> 01:06:20.159 Billy Selick, who was one of my last captains, 01:06:20.199 --> 01:06:22.559 he was chief of special operations. So he ran 01:06:22.559 --> 01:06:25.260 the special operations command for FDNY. Patty 01:06:25.260 --> 01:06:27.280 McNally, one of my captains, he was assistant 01:06:27.280 --> 01:06:31.659 chief of operations, one of my captains. Charlie 01:06:31.659 --> 01:06:35.739 Rivera, Carlos Rivera, before my time, he was 01:06:35.739 --> 01:06:37.659 a lieutenant in 50 engine. He became the fire 01:06:37.659 --> 01:06:40.760 commissioner of FDNY. Mike Buckeye, you know, 01:06:40.780 --> 01:06:43.440 chief of marine operations, you know, it was 01:06:43.440 --> 01:06:46.010 just. I mean, you can go on and on and on how 01:06:46.010 --> 01:06:48.909 many great guys have come out of there and continue 01:06:48.909 --> 01:06:51.510 to come out of there and lead the New York City 01:06:51.510 --> 01:06:54.190 Fire Department, you know, and it's like, and 01:06:54.190 --> 01:06:57.309 I got to work there. And I said about me being 01:06:57.309 --> 01:06:59.389 in the books and then closing them up. And I'm 01:06:59.389 --> 01:07:01.030 like, I'm going to, I'm going to retire from 01:07:01.030 --> 01:07:02.949 this place. I think I'm just going to be a farm 01:07:02.949 --> 01:07:05.969 and a 19 truck forever. And, you know, until 01:07:05.969 --> 01:07:09.090 I either age out or, you know, I just can't do 01:07:09.090 --> 01:07:13.340 it anymore. Chief DiBernardo comes to the firehouse 01:07:13.340 --> 01:07:15.659 one day, and he's the division commander for 01:07:15.659 --> 01:07:18.599 the 6th Division. And he holds roll call on the 01:07:18.599 --> 01:07:21.679 apron in front of the firehouse. And he says, 01:07:21.880 --> 01:07:24.599 Jeff, can I see you? Roll call's over. He goes, 01:07:24.679 --> 01:07:26.960 can I see you? He's the deputy chief, right? 01:07:27.039 --> 01:07:29.659 No, chief, you can't see me. He got me my first 01:07:29.659 --> 01:07:32.639 duty assignment and everything. We're not super 01:07:32.639 --> 01:07:36.320 tight, but I have the respect I have for him. 01:07:36.480 --> 01:07:41.400 I mean, Chief D was a Vietnam vet. He was with 01:07:41.400 --> 01:07:43.760 the big red one. I know you had him on, you know, 01:07:43.760 --> 01:07:47.579 your podcast. He's like my dad today, you know, 01:07:47.579 --> 01:07:50.400 but he asked me, he goes, well, first he starts 01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:53.900 telling me, Hey, my son, Joe, you know, he went 01:07:53.900 --> 01:07:57.320 to these newly formed squads and he's on squad 01:07:57.320 --> 01:08:00.400 61. He went to X amount of jobs, his last 24, 01:08:00.599 --> 01:08:03.219 whatever, 10 jobs, forced X amount of doors. 01:08:04.329 --> 01:08:07.110 Yada, yada, yada. You know, he's doing a lot 01:08:07.110 --> 01:08:08.789 of great stuff. You know, all the specialized 01:08:08.789 --> 01:08:11.510 training. I think you'd be a good fit to go to 01:08:11.510 --> 01:08:15.309 a squad company. What do you think? I go, Chief, 01:08:15.329 --> 01:08:17.869 I'll think about it. Meanwhile, I'm going. I'm 01:08:17.869 --> 01:08:19.729 not going anywhere. But I'm not telling him that. 01:08:19.829 --> 01:08:21.390 But I'm like, I'm not going anywhere. It was 01:08:21.390 --> 01:08:24.590 a compliment. Oh, huge compliment that he's asking 01:08:24.590 --> 01:08:29.989 me to do this. But I'm like, nah. So I don't 01:08:29.989 --> 01:08:34.530 know where time is between that and there. But 01:08:34.530 --> 01:08:40.670 9 -11 happened and the whole world changed. The 01:08:40.670 --> 01:08:42.670 New York City Fire Department, we were decimated. 01:08:42.810 --> 01:08:46.670 You know, we lost 343 guys that day. I lost 33 01:08:46.670 --> 01:08:51.430 friends. You know, they're trying to rebuild 01:08:51.430 --> 01:08:55.630 this fire department, if you will. There's a 01:08:55.630 --> 01:08:57.430 lot of guys that are willing to step up, guys 01:08:57.430 --> 01:08:59.430 and gals that are willing to step up, you know, 01:08:59.430 --> 01:09:03.079 many of them. are the children of those that 01:09:03.079 --> 01:09:07.500 were killed on 9 -11, which is a great testament. 01:09:15.460 --> 01:09:23.279 Sorry. I'm proud to know so many of these individuals 01:09:23.279 --> 01:09:28.149 that stepped up. Going back to me specifically, 01:09:28.390 --> 01:09:30.229 you know what I mean? It was, I was off duty 01:09:30.229 --> 01:09:33.609 that day. I finished my 24 on the night of September 01:09:33.609 --> 01:09:37.970 10th and I was home. I was back in Rockland County 01:09:37.970 --> 01:09:45.729 and Jeff's 28, soon to be 29. So I get, you know, 01:09:45.729 --> 01:09:47.609 what was he four and a half at the time? You 01:09:47.609 --> 01:09:54.050 know, Dylan's brand new baby. He was, he was 01:09:54.050 --> 01:09:59.300 born. In 2000. So, you know, it was a year, year 01:09:59.300 --> 01:10:04.119 and change old, you know, so the family sitting 01:10:04.119 --> 01:10:08.460 around and Jeff's watching Disney and a commercial 01:10:08.460 --> 01:10:12.859 comes on and a typical male thing to do is commercial 01:10:12.859 --> 01:10:15.359 comes on. You flip the chair, you know, so I 01:10:15.359 --> 01:10:17.760 flipped the channel and I see the first plane 01:10:17.760 --> 01:10:21.699 impacted the World Trade Center. And I was there 01:10:21.699 --> 01:10:25.960 in 1993, you know, not initially, but I was down 01:10:25.960 --> 01:10:29.819 at the bar wing in 93. And I'm like, this is 01:10:29.819 --> 01:10:33.140 not normal. And I start getting dressed even 01:10:33.140 --> 01:10:37.899 before the recall happens. And the second plane 01:10:37.899 --> 01:10:39.760 impacts the building. And my wife's crying and 01:10:39.760 --> 01:10:42.779 Jeff's crying. And Dylan doesn't know what's 01:10:42.779 --> 01:10:47.779 going on. And I ended up flying out of the house. 01:10:47.859 --> 01:10:52.689 I told my family I love them. And I had a Toyota 01:10:52.689 --> 01:10:55.750 Corolla at the time. And you don't think a Toyota 01:10:55.750 --> 01:10:57.909 Corolla can go 100 miles an hour, but it can 01:10:57.909 --> 01:11:01.989 go 100 miles an hour. And I normally would go 01:11:01.989 --> 01:11:05.529 over the George Washington Bridge. I live 35 01:11:05.529 --> 01:11:08.149 miles north of the city. Rockland County is. 01:11:09.810 --> 01:11:12.550 So you can either go over the George Washington 01:11:12.550 --> 01:11:15.069 Bridge or the Tappan Zee Bridge. And I'm thinking 01:11:15.069 --> 01:11:17.350 George Washington Bridge is a secondary target. 01:11:17.949 --> 01:11:19.949 And I'm going to take the Tappan Zee Bridge. 01:11:20.489 --> 01:11:22.949 The problem was the night before when I came 01:11:22.949 --> 01:11:26.810 home, I was on vapors. And I had to stop at night 01:11:26.810 --> 01:11:31.930 in New York to put fuel in my vehicle. And I 01:11:31.930 --> 01:11:34.970 took off from there. I just threw in a couple 01:11:34.970 --> 01:11:36.729 of gallons, took off from there, got on the Tappan 01:11:36.729 --> 01:11:40.289 Zee Bridge. Crystal clear day, blue skies. You 01:11:40.289 --> 01:11:42.609 could see south into New York City. I'm on the 01:11:42.609 --> 01:11:44.949 Tappan Zee Bridge. The bridge gets shut down 01:11:44.949 --> 01:11:47.010 with us on it. We're spanning between Rockland 01:11:47.010 --> 01:11:49.369 County and Westchester County. And you look south 01:11:49.369 --> 01:11:51.149 and New York City is right there. And you can 01:11:51.149 --> 01:11:53.430 see the towers burning. And they shut the bridge 01:11:53.430 --> 01:11:56.310 down with us on it. And they are looking for 01:11:56.310 --> 01:11:59.770 secondary devices. With us on the bridge, you 01:11:59.770 --> 01:12:02.649 know, I guess if something went off, we are part 01:12:02.649 --> 01:12:08.890 of the, you know, the cost, you know. Collateral 01:12:08.890 --> 01:12:12.649 damage. Collateral damage, yes. i don't know 01:12:12.649 --> 01:12:14.529 how long it was but i'm standing with cops and 01:12:14.529 --> 01:12:17.210 firemen and uh next thing you know the bridge 01:12:17.210 --> 01:12:21.449 is open i take off flying again i'm on on the 01:12:21.449 --> 01:12:25.250 uh major deegan i'm close to the bronx i get 01:12:25.250 --> 01:12:27.430 in getting i mean i'm trying to weave in and 01:12:27.430 --> 01:12:30.909 out of traffic um i get into an argument with 01:12:30.909 --> 01:12:34.270 the local you know he's everybody knows what's 01:12:34.270 --> 01:12:38.430 going on i mean it's not like you know but I'm 01:12:38.430 --> 01:12:40.390 like, buddy, I'm trying to get to the firehouse. 01:12:40.390 --> 01:12:42.069 All this guy wants to do is fight. I go, buddy, 01:12:42.090 --> 01:12:44.510 I don't have time for this. I take off, you know, 01:12:44.529 --> 01:12:47.189 pass them out. I'm like, head to the firehouse. 01:12:47.289 --> 01:12:49.810 I get to the firehouse. I see battalion 26 pulling 01:12:49.810 --> 01:12:52.250 out on the apron. I pull up to the firehouse. 01:12:52.949 --> 01:12:56.350 And I'm not in, you know, I'm not a chief's aide. 01:12:56.470 --> 01:12:59.670 I'm not a chief. I see the 26. They pull out. 01:13:00.189 --> 01:13:02.670 Off they go. I go open the door to the firehouse. 01:13:03.229 --> 01:13:05.250 I look. Both the engine and the truck are gone. 01:13:06.670 --> 01:13:08.810 the engine was at the trade center the truck 01:13:08.810 --> 01:13:10.890 was relocated down to lower manhattan it was 01:13:10.890 --> 01:13:15.229 at 16 truck uh 16 truck was was at the trade 01:13:15.229 --> 01:13:19.170 center and uh you know i was the first off -duty 01:13:19.170 --> 01:13:22.630 guy to 1519 that day and i signed in the journal 01:13:22.630 --> 01:13:25.689 and uh shortly after guys started mustering in 01:13:25.689 --> 01:13:28.890 a firehouse and gathering and we were told to 01:13:28.890 --> 01:13:32.189 report over to division which is on 155 in melrose 01:13:32.189 --> 01:13:35.439 and uh We're standing out there in the street, 01:13:35.500 --> 01:13:37.359 and there's hundreds and hundreds of firefighters 01:13:37.359 --> 01:13:40.119 from the 6th Division standing out there. And 01:13:40.119 --> 01:13:43.439 they already know that the loss of life is so 01:13:43.439 --> 01:13:46.399 great, and they start holding us back. And I'm 01:13:46.399 --> 01:13:48.979 literally standing there not only with my fire 01:13:48.979 --> 01:13:50.760 department brothers, but I'm standing there with 01:13:50.760 --> 01:13:55.279 guys that their blood brothers are at the Trade 01:13:55.279 --> 01:13:58.079 Center, and they're trying to get a hold of them, 01:13:58.100 --> 01:14:00.500 and they can't get a hold of them. And then next 01:14:00.500 --> 01:14:02.600 thing you know, fighters are flying over to South 01:14:02.600 --> 01:14:05.770 Bronx. It was a surreal moment. You know, I'm 01:14:05.770 --> 01:14:09.210 used to seeing, I think it was F -15s at the 01:14:09.210 --> 01:14:11.789 time. It might have been 16s. I'm not, I don't 01:14:11.789 --> 01:14:15.050 know. I guess the older I get, the more I forget. 01:14:15.149 --> 01:14:17.750 But I've worked with both those aircraft, but 01:14:17.750 --> 01:14:20.810 come to find out, you know, we're armed anyway. 01:14:20.970 --> 01:14:23.470 They were out of Otis in Vermont and they were 01:14:23.470 --> 01:14:27.729 not armed. So, I mean, I don't know how many 01:14:27.729 --> 01:14:29.850 people know that, but if push came to shove, 01:14:30.069 --> 01:14:34.560 what their plan was. And one was a female pilot 01:14:34.560 --> 01:14:38.680 is that they were going to run their fighter 01:14:38.680 --> 01:14:41.439 into this commercial aircraft and take it out 01:14:41.439 --> 01:14:46.060 because they weren't armed. And, you know, so 01:14:46.060 --> 01:14:49.659 it was crazy. So, you know, we started breaking 01:14:49.659 --> 01:14:53.779 up into ABC platoons at some point and we went 01:14:53.779 --> 01:14:58.920 into a different group chart. And, you know, 01:14:58.920 --> 01:15:01.880 it was down to trade center digging. And my first. 01:15:02.539 --> 01:15:04.939 boots on the ground at the trade center trade 01:15:04.939 --> 01:15:08.899 center was september 12th to look at the devastation 01:15:08.899 --> 01:15:11.560 it was it was the apocalypse in front of us you 01:15:11.560 --> 01:15:13.779 know everything was just like collapsed there 01:15:13.779 --> 01:15:16.500 was holes there was voids there was like clocks 01:15:16.500 --> 01:15:18.979 stopped and there was drinks still on the counter 01:15:18.979 --> 01:15:21.140 and then other times it was just debris everywhere 01:15:21.140 --> 01:15:24.420 that was unrecognizable you know i mean initially 01:15:24.420 --> 01:15:27.279 we were just doing you know bucker brigade you 01:15:27.279 --> 01:15:29.199 know i wasn't in the special operations command 01:15:29.199 --> 01:15:32.119 and You know, you know, you find out this one's 01:15:32.119 --> 01:15:34.500 missing and that one's missing. And then, you 01:15:34.500 --> 01:15:36.460 know, I mean, these are guys that I fought fires 01:15:36.460 --> 01:15:39.579 with. These are guys that I, I barbecued with 01:15:39.579 --> 01:15:42.819 guys that I played hockey with, you know, you 01:15:42.819 --> 01:15:46.560 know, just great individuals that were young 01:15:46.560 --> 01:15:50.659 and, you know, and, you know, it was, it was 01:15:50.659 --> 01:15:54.739 super, super hard. And, you know, we learned 01:15:54.739 --> 01:15:59.220 that, you know, 2 ,997, you know, were lost that 01:15:59.220 --> 01:16:03.260 day. you know and 343 firefighters were murdered 01:16:03.260 --> 01:16:05.520 you know running in like people were running 01:16:05.520 --> 01:16:08.439 out you know looked facing a danger or danger 01:16:08.439 --> 01:16:10.539 in the face and said you know what i'm going 01:16:10.539 --> 01:16:13.619 in to save lives you know and uh you know there's 01:16:13.619 --> 01:16:16.180 countless stories of individuals and even civilians 01:16:16.180 --> 01:16:19.460 you know that you know um that ran into that 01:16:19.460 --> 01:16:21.960 building or stayed in that building and got people 01:16:21.960 --> 01:16:27.920 out you know and it was the the greatest of act 01:16:27.920 --> 01:16:30.420 of bravery that we've ever seen you know you 01:16:30.420 --> 01:16:33.539 know i mean you could go go way back until like 01:16:33.539 --> 01:16:37.039 like normandy you know normandy beach you know 01:16:37.039 --> 01:16:39.039 and landed on the beaches i mean it was that 01:16:39.039 --> 01:16:41.619 heroic you know and it was and it was police 01:16:41.619 --> 01:16:44.479 officers too it was it was just absolutely amazing 01:16:44.479 --> 01:16:49.699 to see but sad you know to see such a loss you 01:16:49.699 --> 01:16:54.859 know um and uh and through time i would learn 01:16:54.859 --> 01:16:57.449 i you know i would lose you know this friend 01:16:57.449 --> 01:16:59.449 and that friend and you know they're not i mean 01:16:59.449 --> 01:17:02.390 i can say their names i mean they're they're 01:17:02.390 --> 01:17:07.010 behind me um you know on a wall and uh i say 01:17:07.010 --> 01:17:08.890 their names you know and i tell their stories 01:17:08.890 --> 01:17:11.250 you know every year i tell their stories to uh 01:17:11.250 --> 01:17:15.510 so people do not forget you know um these individuals 01:17:15.510 --> 01:17:17.670 that ran in and looked death in the face and 01:17:17.670 --> 01:17:20.930 said i'm going in you know i mean You know, Pete 01:17:20.930 --> 01:17:24.250 B. Field from Ladder 4 -2 that I worked with, 01:17:24.369 --> 01:17:26.970 you know, he was at the medical office that day 01:17:26.970 --> 01:17:31.329 on 9 -11 in Brooklyn. And he didn't have to go 01:17:31.329 --> 01:17:38.510 there. It was on medical leave. And he left headquarters, 01:17:38.890 --> 01:17:45.670 excuse me, in the medical office and went to 01:17:45.670 --> 01:17:47.970 Lower Manhattan, came across the Brooklyn Bridge. 01:17:51.340 --> 01:17:58.100 Went to 10 and 10, 10 engine and 10 truck, right 01:17:58.100 --> 01:17:59.520 across the street from the World Trade Center. 01:18:01.199 --> 01:18:04.399 Found a firefighter's gear. I wrote a letter. 01:18:05.199 --> 01:18:09.960 Hi, I'm Pete B. Field from letter 42. I'm borrowing 01:18:09.960 --> 01:18:12.500 your gear. If I don't make it home, tell my wife 01:18:12.500 --> 01:18:22.199 and kids I love them. And make it home. You know, 01:18:22.220 --> 01:18:25.260 and there's story after story of guys like that. 01:18:25.359 --> 01:18:26.899 But, you know, these are guys I, you know, I 01:18:26.899 --> 01:18:30.760 work with, you know, and I would learn of their 01:18:30.760 --> 01:18:33.840 passing. And I'm like, you know, again, I was, 01:18:33.840 --> 01:18:36.020 I was going to, you know, my whole career. I 01:18:36.020 --> 01:18:40.100 mean, I was like 19 truck. We're supposed to 01:18:40.100 --> 01:18:43.399 get the Olympics. What year was it? It was like 01:18:43.399 --> 01:18:48.300 the magic, the magic year for me. So 20, what 01:18:48.300 --> 01:18:51.979 was it? 2020 or whatever, whatever it was. It 01:18:51.979 --> 01:18:53.640 was like, we were, we were supposed to have the 01:18:53.640 --> 01:18:55.960 Olympics. I'm like, that's going to be my, my, 01:18:56.020 --> 01:18:57.680 you know, my golden year, you know, I'm going 01:18:57.680 --> 01:18:59.739 to make all this overtime and, you know, and 01:18:59.739 --> 01:19:03.579 maybe punch my ticket after that. But who, who 01:19:03.579 --> 01:19:05.779 knew how the world would change, you know? And 01:19:05.779 --> 01:19:09.060 so we lost 97 guys in the special operations 01:19:09.060 --> 01:19:13.079 command and department of order came out and 01:19:13.079 --> 01:19:15.720 they were, they were looking for details for 01:19:15.720 --> 01:19:19.779 companies that lost. a great deal of members, 01:19:19.979 --> 01:19:23.039 you know, to step up and take a detail to that 01:19:23.039 --> 01:19:25.720 house and a special operations command. They 01:19:25.720 --> 01:19:29.180 were looking for guys to fill a void of the 97 01:19:29.180 --> 01:19:32.500 individuals. The experience that was lost as 01:19:32.500 --> 01:19:35.939 97 alone was tremendous because of all the technical 01:19:35.939 --> 01:19:38.600 rescue stuff. I mean, we lost Mr. Rescue that 01:19:38.600 --> 01:19:41.720 day, you know, the guy that wrote the rescue 01:19:41.720 --> 01:19:44.140 procedures, Ray Downey, chief of special operations 01:19:44.140 --> 01:19:50.479 command. So I never thought about going to rescue. 01:19:50.579 --> 01:19:53.159 I turned down an opportunity to go to a squad 01:19:53.159 --> 01:19:55.520 company, the JV, if you will. You know, it's 01:19:55.520 --> 01:19:58.260 like, you know, we have eight squad companies 01:19:58.260 --> 01:20:00.199 and they're trained to the same standards as 01:20:00.199 --> 01:20:03.020 the rescue companies, the five rescue companies 01:20:03.020 --> 01:20:05.939 who just have less toys, you know, and, you know, 01:20:05.939 --> 01:20:08.680 always break their chops and they're the JV, 01:20:08.819 --> 01:20:13.600 we're the varsity, you know. And so I talked 01:20:13.600 --> 01:20:17.539 to my wife and. I said, you know what? I lost 01:20:17.539 --> 01:20:20.899 a buddy that day. His name was Tommy Foley, a 01:20:20.899 --> 01:20:26.380 great guy. He grew up in Rockland County, the 01:20:26.380 --> 01:20:29.439 same county I grew up in. Loved country music. 01:20:29.680 --> 01:20:32.000 He worked in Squad 41. He was appointed to Squad 01:20:32.000 --> 01:20:34.899 41 right out of probing school. Him and another 01:20:34.899 --> 01:20:41.760 buddy of mine, Aldo Adisi. They were handpicked 01:20:41.760 --> 01:20:47.949 to go to... a newly formed squad company. And 01:20:47.949 --> 01:20:54.529 Tommy was killed that day. And he was country. 01:20:54.729 --> 01:20:58.010 He loved country music. He used to do an ad for 01:20:58.010 --> 01:21:03.449 like a voice ad for country music station. Wow, 01:21:03.510 --> 01:21:06.460 my tongue got tied. Music station. for New York. 01:21:06.579 --> 01:21:09.520 Hi, I'm Tom Foley of Squad 41 in the South Bronx 01:21:09.520 --> 01:21:11.939 and I am New Country. And I'd see him at a box 01:21:11.939 --> 01:21:14.439 and I'd break his chops and we'd laugh. And Tom 01:21:14.439 --> 01:21:16.859 was a great looking guy. He had girls falling 01:21:16.859 --> 01:21:19.699 over him. He was an actor. He was a bull rider, 01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:25.100 avid outdoorsman, football player. He was voted 01:21:25.100 --> 01:21:27.300 Tech Most Eligible Bachelor by People Magazine 01:21:27.300 --> 01:21:31.270 for a heroic rescue that he made. He got a lot 01:21:31.270 --> 01:21:33.869 of notoriety because it was caught on video and 01:21:33.869 --> 01:21:35.949 everything, and People magazine picked up on 01:21:35.949 --> 01:21:40.829 it. He was that guy. He was dating all these 01:21:40.829 --> 01:21:44.609 beautiful women, but always had time for his 01:21:44.609 --> 01:21:48.930 brothers. He could have this beautiful girl on 01:21:48.930 --> 01:21:51.029 his arm, and he would come over to you. Jeff, 01:21:51.029 --> 01:21:54.989 what's up? How you doing, brother? No. So I said, 01:21:55.050 --> 01:21:56.710 you know what? Talk to my wife. I said, I'm going 01:21:56.710 --> 01:22:01.000 to throw my hat in the ring. I held the cards 01:22:01.000 --> 01:22:03.180 real close to my chest. I didn't tell any of 01:22:03.180 --> 01:22:05.439 my brothers in 15. I didn't tell anybody really. 01:22:05.880 --> 01:22:11.939 And on my way into Rescue 3 was on 176th Street 01:22:11.939 --> 01:22:15.659 and Washington Avenue at the time. 1519 is on 01:22:15.659 --> 01:22:19.760 167 and Washington Avenue. So 10 blocks in between 01:22:19.760 --> 01:22:23.680 us. So on the way into the firehouse one night, 01:22:23.819 --> 01:22:27.180 I have an interview set up with Captain Ralph 01:22:27.180 --> 01:22:33.939 Tiso of Rescue 3. And I go in and see Captain 01:22:33.939 --> 01:22:36.640 Tiso. And Captain Tiso is a smaller man in nature, 01:22:36.739 --> 01:22:39.199 but has a stack of medals like a Mexican war 01:22:39.199 --> 01:22:41.380 general. You know, he's pretty much seen it all. 01:22:41.539 --> 01:22:45.939 And I go have this interview with him. And I 01:22:45.939 --> 01:22:47.600 was like, I don't know. I thought it went well, 01:22:47.659 --> 01:22:51.659 but I wasn't like 100 % sure. So anyway, I go 01:22:51.659 --> 01:22:54.159 into work in 50 and 19 at night. I don't tell 01:22:54.159 --> 01:22:59.300 nobody nothing. At some point I called. Chief 01:22:59.300 --> 01:23:01.779 DiBernardo, and he's retired from the job now. 01:23:01.880 --> 01:23:04.720 But I said, hey, Chief, can you do me a favor? 01:23:04.899 --> 01:23:07.619 I said, I know you hold a lot of weight. I'm 01:23:07.619 --> 01:23:10.680 looking for an endorsement. Can you call up Captain 01:23:10.680 --> 01:23:14.140 Tiso and give me an endorsement? He goes, what? 01:23:14.500 --> 01:23:18.119 He goes, didn't I ask you to go to SWAT 61? I 01:23:18.119 --> 01:23:21.000 go, he's got a memory like an elephant. It's 01:23:21.000 --> 01:23:25.779 like, you know. So he ended up giving me the 01:23:25.779 --> 01:23:29.260 endorsement, and I was one of the first three 01:23:29.260 --> 01:23:35.460 new guys in Rescue 3 after 9 -11. Myself, Stevie 01:23:35.460 --> 01:23:39.699 Nasso from 33 Truck, and Pat McKenna from 45 01:23:39.699 --> 01:23:43.680 Truck in Washington Heights, and 33 Truck, where 01:23:43.680 --> 01:23:45.939 Stevie was from, was a Bronx truck company also. 01:23:46.119 --> 01:23:47.920 We were the first three new guys in Rescue 3. 01:23:49.960 --> 01:23:52.079 So now we've got to go to a tech rescue, the 01:23:52.079 --> 01:23:57.939 basic tech rescue. And I think we worked somewhere. 01:23:58.220 --> 01:24:00.000 Well, we go to rescue school first. We're going. 01:24:00.220 --> 01:24:02.500 So we're at the trade center digging. Next thing 01:24:02.500 --> 01:24:05.300 you know, I'm going to rescue school. On the 01:24:05.300 --> 01:24:07.140 weekends, you got to be available for overtime. 01:24:07.779 --> 01:24:10.199 You go in and help fill these rescue companies. 01:24:10.439 --> 01:24:13.920 You're still not up to their standards, but we'll 01:24:13.920 --> 01:24:15.979 take you. You know, I mean, you know, and I'm 01:24:15.979 --> 01:24:17.960 sitting in dead guy's seat. You know, I mean, 01:24:17.979 --> 01:24:19.539 it was eight guys that were killed from Rescue 01:24:19.539 --> 01:24:24.460 3 that day. And you continue to train and you 01:24:24.460 --> 01:24:26.520 go through tech rescue. And we're down in the 01:24:26.520 --> 01:24:30.319 Trade Center digging for our fellow Americans 01:24:30.319 --> 01:24:33.239 and our brothers and trying to bring everybody 01:24:33.239 --> 01:24:37.960 home and still going to school and going to fires. 01:24:38.199 --> 01:24:43.939 And it was a crazy time. I was gone from my family 01:24:43.939 --> 01:24:47.920 for over a year. I mean, even when I was home, 01:24:48.039 --> 01:24:51.100 I wasn't home. It was a total disconnect. you 01:24:51.100 --> 01:24:54.539 know and uh right right wrong or indifferent 01:24:54.539 --> 01:24:56.779 you know i mean that's that's just the way it 01:24:56.779 --> 01:24:59.279 was you know we were we were at war you know 01:24:59.279 --> 01:25:05.260 and uh um it was a crazy crazy time you know 01:25:05.260 --> 01:25:09.260 and uh um at some point in time i i wasn't going 01:25:09.260 --> 01:25:10.880 to say this and i'm going to say it you know 01:25:10.880 --> 01:25:14.439 because i'm not a coward you know but my uh my 01:25:14.439 --> 01:25:17.359 unit always was up at some point and they deployed 01:25:17.359 --> 01:25:23.619 um And I asked to be left alone at the time. 01:25:23.739 --> 01:25:26.520 I didn't, I guess I deferred, but it wasn't like, 01:25:26.579 --> 01:25:29.560 I just asked politely. I just went to a special 01:25:29.560 --> 01:25:31.619 operations command. I'm working in rescue three. 01:25:33.260 --> 01:25:36.439 The war to me was right in front of me. You know, 01:25:36.460 --> 01:25:41.140 it wasn't in Afghanistan at the time. But, you 01:25:41.140 --> 01:25:43.500 know, many of my brothers went over there and 01:25:43.500 --> 01:25:46.020 thank God all of them came home, you know, from 01:25:46.020 --> 01:25:48.699 my unit. Unfortunately, you know, we've lost 01:25:48.699 --> 01:25:53.399 over 7000 servicemen and women, you know, in 01:25:53.399 --> 01:25:55.659 a global war on terrorism. You know, I'm very 01:25:55.659 --> 01:25:59.619 cognizant. And we've lost 30 over 30 ,000 suicide, 01:26:00.100 --> 01:26:04.619 which is just it's just absolutely crazy. You 01:26:04.619 --> 01:26:09.619 know, but so, you know, we continue to to move 01:26:09.619 --> 01:26:13.600 forward in, you know, and try to make the job 01:26:13.600 --> 01:26:16.770 whole again. You know, but it takes time. You 01:26:16.770 --> 01:26:19.750 know, and I mean, even now, I mean, I've been 01:26:19.750 --> 01:26:22.130 out of, you know, I got hurt almost 21 years 01:26:22.130 --> 01:26:27.949 ago. I don't know if it's this, you know, it's 01:26:27.949 --> 01:26:31.170 great, you know, like, you know, the training 01:26:31.170 --> 01:26:33.729 level and it's progressed so much and there's 01:26:33.729 --> 01:26:37.069 more training. But the knowledge that you lost, 01:26:37.310 --> 01:26:42.710 it's irreversible, you know. But, you know, we 01:26:42.710 --> 01:26:46.479 continue to move forward. And, you know, it was, 01:26:46.479 --> 01:26:49.140 you know, I got to meet guys from all over the 01:26:49.140 --> 01:26:53.600 city being able to do this. And I don't know 01:26:53.600 --> 01:26:55.640 if I would have ever did it. You know, I mean, 01:26:55.659 --> 01:26:58.840 God puts us in storms for a reason, you know, 01:26:58.840 --> 01:27:04.479 and I'm in a storm here and I'm trying to, trying 01:27:04.479 --> 01:27:11.600 to prove myself into my brothers above that, 01:27:11.659 --> 01:27:15.180 that were, that have gone before me. I got it. 01:27:17.819 --> 01:27:22.039 And it was, it was, I mean, I've seen a lot there. 01:27:24.899 --> 01:27:28.500 The pinnacle of my career in rescue three was 01:27:28.500 --> 01:27:41.340 June of, of 2004. It was June 12th, 2004. We 01:27:41.340 --> 01:27:44.939 got a report of a fire over on Bruckner Boulevard. 01:27:45.579 --> 01:27:50.260 I forget the exact address, but it was a five 01:27:50.260 --> 01:27:53.180 or six -story building, and it was reported people 01:27:53.180 --> 01:27:58.859 trapped. The dispatcher started us out, started 01:27:58.859 --> 01:28:00.600 Rescue 3 out, and that's because it was people 01:28:00.600 --> 01:28:02.420 trapped. If it sounds like, you know, you get 01:28:02.420 --> 01:28:04.840 numerous calls, people trapped, start out the 01:28:04.840 --> 01:28:07.859 rescue company, and this dispatcher, the beef 01:28:07.859 --> 01:28:12.319 man. 3 -3 -0. His operator number was 3 -3 -0, 01:28:12.380 --> 01:28:16.220 but he was 3 -3 -0, you know, like tree, you 01:28:16.220 --> 01:28:19.500 know. So the beach starts us out on this box 01:28:19.500 --> 01:28:23.600 and we get there and it was like, and we got 01:28:23.600 --> 01:28:25.460 people hanging out the window on the top floor. 01:28:25.560 --> 01:28:28.479 It looks like a roof rope rescue. And I got the, 01:28:28.479 --> 01:28:33.600 I got the roof rope and started hoofing up and 01:28:33.600 --> 01:28:37.840 we get up there as a company and I see 42 truck. 01:28:40.140 --> 01:28:42.520 Guy's tying up on a bulkhead. He's got a substantial 01:28:42.520 --> 01:28:46.640 object and he's tying up. I look at him. He's 01:28:46.640 --> 01:28:48.479 very confident what he's doing. I asked him, 01:28:48.479 --> 01:28:50.119 I said, you got this? He says, yeah, I got it. 01:28:50.579 --> 01:28:54.039 Okay. I look over, I look over the side and I 01:28:54.039 --> 01:28:56.500 see two individuals hanging out a window. It's 01:28:56.500 --> 01:29:04.279 an open shaft. And I look and I see we don't 01:29:04.279 --> 01:29:08.409 have a substantial object. So I talked to my 01:29:08.409 --> 01:29:13.390 partner, Rich Bailey, and I said, I'm going over. 01:29:13.550 --> 01:29:17.850 He says, what are we doing? I said, you're going 01:29:17.850 --> 01:29:19.930 to put your feet up against the wall. You're 01:29:19.930 --> 01:29:22.850 going to take your turns on the hook, and I'm 01:29:22.850 --> 01:29:25.289 going to go over. And we drilled on this countless 01:29:25.289 --> 01:29:29.689 times. It's not an SOP for us, but it's something 01:29:29.689 --> 01:29:34.869 that we do training outside the box. step up 01:29:34.869 --> 01:29:37.529 and it's it's basically it's an open shaft so 01:29:37.529 --> 01:29:39.630 we're like almost like an L right there's one 01:29:39.630 --> 01:29:43.409 guy that's up on the parapet and and then they 01:29:43.409 --> 01:29:47.250 and I don't know I guess I'm laying a lot of 01:29:47.250 --> 01:29:49.890 cards on the table I'll just you know a lot of 01:29:49.890 --> 01:29:52.130 people want to wear you know they want to be 01:29:52.130 --> 01:29:55.569 Superman they want to wear the costume they they 01:29:55.569 --> 01:29:58.250 want to be a firefighter you know but when it's 01:29:58.250 --> 01:30:01.470 when it's time to do Superman shit not everybody 01:30:01.470 --> 01:30:05.960 wants to do Superman shit And I'm not a hero. 01:30:06.100 --> 01:30:09.680 I mean, listen, I'm not a hero. I just worked 01:30:09.680 --> 01:30:11.699 with a great bunch of guys that made me look 01:30:11.699 --> 01:30:17.979 really good. So our evolution is being set up 01:30:17.979 --> 01:30:20.619 and this individual is supposed to be going over. 01:30:21.020 --> 01:30:23.619 And at some point in time, I didn't even see 01:30:23.619 --> 01:30:27.079 this happen. He stepped out of the loops. He 01:30:27.079 --> 01:30:30.760 was not going over. So Pat McKenna that came 01:30:30.760 --> 01:30:34.460 to Rescue 3 with me. from 45 trucks steps into 01:30:34.460 --> 01:30:38.859 the loops and he's on one side of the parapet 01:30:38.859 --> 01:30:41.659 and i'm on another side of the parapet and we 01:30:41.659 --> 01:30:44.600 both go over simultaneously he takes a woman 01:30:44.600 --> 01:30:46.819 out of the top floor window and i take a man 01:30:46.819 --> 01:30:48.939 out of the top floor window i have to pull him 01:30:48.939 --> 01:30:51.300 up he won't come up out of the window he's scared 01:30:51.300 --> 01:30:56.180 we get him down to the ground successfully it 01:30:56.180 --> 01:30:59.159 was the highlight of my career the first thing 01:30:59.159 --> 01:31:01.399 i can do when i when i hit the ground and everything's 01:31:01.399 --> 01:31:04.659 said and done is pick up the phone and who do 01:31:04.659 --> 01:31:07.859 I want to talk to? I'm going to talk to my oldest 01:31:07.859 --> 01:31:11.920 son, Jeffrey, because he is a buff and he loves 01:31:11.920 --> 01:31:14.079 the fire service. And I just tell him, you know, 01:31:14.119 --> 01:31:16.840 I just did a roof roll rescue and he is ecstatic, 01:31:16.960 --> 01:31:23.420 you know? And so, you know, it was a team effort. 01:31:23.560 --> 01:31:25.899 Richie Bailey lowered me, Kevin Williams quarterback, 01:31:26.239 --> 01:31:28.579 that Mike Tierney was up there. He laid on top 01:31:28.579 --> 01:31:33.180 of Rich Bailey, you know? Patty was going over. 01:31:33.279 --> 01:31:35.979 There was the guys from 42 Truck. And it was 01:31:35.979 --> 01:31:39.500 just amazing. But it was a company effort. And 01:31:39.500 --> 01:31:43.619 that's what it is. It's about teamwork and training 01:31:43.619 --> 01:31:46.739 inside the box, but also training outside the 01:31:46.739 --> 01:31:53.460 box. And that was the absolute pinnacle of my 01:31:53.460 --> 01:31:56.420 career. But I wouldn't know that six months later, 01:31:56.500 --> 01:32:02.689 my career would be over. You know, I ended up 01:32:02.689 --> 01:32:05.989 getting a really high medal with FDNY for it. 01:32:06.029 --> 01:32:11.270 And I got the grand prize recipient of Firehouse 01:32:11.270 --> 01:32:15.609 Magazine. You know, I got my picture taken and 01:32:15.609 --> 01:32:18.489 I got to do this and that, you know, and Daily 01:32:18.489 --> 01:32:20.909 News Hero of the Month, yada, yada, yada. You 01:32:20.909 --> 01:32:23.390 know, it's all great stuff. But that's all bullshit. 01:32:23.470 --> 01:32:25.960 You know, it's like, I mean. you know so many 01:32:25.960 --> 01:32:28.579 times you know like it's well us when i say that 01:32:28.579 --> 01:32:30.600 that's i got to get the metal and everything 01:32:30.600 --> 01:32:32.819 a pretty high metal what was better than getting 01:32:32.819 --> 01:32:37.539 a metal is that i am working in 29 truck outside 01:32:37.539 --> 01:32:40.060 of the special operations command monday i get 01:32:40.060 --> 01:32:43.920 detailed on a day tour to 29 truck in the south 01:32:43.920 --> 01:32:47.859 bronx and i get a phone call and they're like 01:32:47.859 --> 01:32:50.680 cool department the department phone pick up 01:32:50.680 --> 01:32:55.140 the phone wi -fi cool rescue three um Hey, Jeff, 01:32:55.260 --> 01:33:00.420 it's Ralph Tiso, the captain who took me to Rescue 01:33:00.420 --> 01:33:04.300 3. He goes, I am so proud of you. He's retired 01:33:04.300 --> 01:33:07.079 now. He goes, and I told you, he had a stack 01:33:07.079 --> 01:33:10.460 of medals like a Mexican war general. He goes, 01:33:10.479 --> 01:33:13.819 my whole career, all I ever wanted to do was 01:33:13.819 --> 01:33:16.020 to make a room for a rescue. And you did it. 01:33:16.100 --> 01:33:19.680 You did it. I'm proud of you. And that was better 01:33:19.680 --> 01:33:25.840 than getting a medal. Getting that kudos. I've 01:33:25.840 --> 01:33:28.199 always said the same thing, like literally being 01:33:28.199 --> 01:33:32.100 told good job by someone you respect trumps all 01:33:32.100 --> 01:33:35.000 unit citations and medals and anything else, 01:33:35.100 --> 01:33:40.039 because it's genuinely from the heart. So talking 01:33:40.039 --> 01:33:42.380 as well about outside the box, being taught all 01:33:42.380 --> 01:33:44.399 these ways, like for example, the way I was taught 01:33:44.399 --> 01:33:47.979 ladder throws in Florida paled in comparison 01:33:47.979 --> 01:33:49.800 to when I went on the West Coast and was taught 01:33:49.800 --> 01:33:53.220 to shoulder and stick. be a true like vertical 01:33:53.220 --> 01:33:56.720 vent man, you realize that there are these echo 01:33:56.720 --> 01:33:59.579 chambers and sometimes, you know, we're so redundant 01:33:59.579 --> 01:34:01.819 with safety that you've kind of paralyzed the 01:34:01.819 --> 01:34:04.699 ability to facilitate a rescue. And even though 01:34:04.699 --> 01:34:07.180 this never happened to me specifically, I remember, 01:34:07.239 --> 01:34:10.079 for example, you know, you come up on a, on some 01:34:10.079 --> 01:34:11.800 sort of, you know, pedestrian versus vehicle 01:34:11.800 --> 01:34:15.300 and they are literally expiring in front of you. 01:34:16.020 --> 01:34:18.739 What is saying that rather than spending minutes 01:34:18.739 --> 01:34:20.640 and minutes and minutes setting up airbags and 01:34:20.640 --> 01:34:22.640 cribbing, that you don't just three of you turn 01:34:22.640 --> 01:34:25.819 around to the car, deadlift it up while one of 01:34:25.819 --> 01:34:28.720 you drags a person out? Boom. Now, is it ideal? 01:34:28.979 --> 01:34:32.699 No, of course not. But when time is of the essence, 01:34:33.039 --> 01:34:36.560 yes, these are ideal world and the way that we're 01:34:36.560 --> 01:34:38.539 trained and the redundancy and all that stuff. 01:34:38.600 --> 01:34:40.359 But there's also times where you just have to 01:34:40.359 --> 01:34:42.420 throw that out the window and use your best judgment. 01:34:42.909 --> 01:34:44.869 And for some reason, like when law enforcement 01:34:44.869 --> 01:34:46.909 kick in the door and go into a fire and pull 01:34:46.909 --> 01:34:49.229 someone out, they get medals. But in the fire 01:34:49.229 --> 01:34:52.609 service, when someone does that, we get disciplined 01:34:52.609 --> 01:34:55.689 or terminated. And it's a strange, you know, 01:34:55.689 --> 01:34:58.529 way of thinking about it. So, you know, it's 01:34:58.529 --> 01:35:00.170 funny because people came up to me, are you going 01:35:00.170 --> 01:35:01.569 to get charges or are you going to medal day? 01:35:01.909 --> 01:35:04.069 You know, because it's not in a book. It's still 01:35:04.069 --> 01:35:05.729 not in a book. And it still happens. I mean, 01:35:05.750 --> 01:35:07.850 we still do it. You know, we do it. We know it 01:35:07.850 --> 01:35:12.750 works, but it's not in the books. No. No, it's 01:35:12.750 --> 01:35:17.550 not Chicago Fire. I'll tell you that. Thank God. 01:35:18.270 --> 01:35:22.649 Not the department. I'm saying the series. Yes, 01:35:22.689 --> 01:35:25.029 yes. I had Chick on the show, the guy that actually 01:35:25.029 --> 01:35:27.390 created it. And I know, you know, a lot of these 01:35:27.390 --> 01:35:30.149 scenes. are not portrayed the way he wanted them 01:35:30.149 --> 01:35:32.210 portrayed hollywood took it and kind of molded 01:35:32.210 --> 01:35:35.310 it and so you know shout out to him yeah i'm 01:35:35.310 --> 01:35:38.569 not too happy with hollywood no well i'm in i'm 01:35:38.569 --> 01:35:39.930 in the process of making a show that's going 01:35:39.930 --> 01:35:42.149 to show what we actually do and it's going to 01:35:42.149 --> 01:35:45.329 be raw so well we have a documentary out there 01:35:45.329 --> 01:35:47.930 right now that was shot on the fire that i was 01:35:47.930 --> 01:35:51.130 involved in and it's i don't know it's shoveling 01:35:51.130 --> 01:35:52.890 shit against the tide right now trying to get 01:35:52.890 --> 01:35:55.550 somebody to pick it up you know it's crazy what's 01:35:55.550 --> 01:35:58.279 it what's it going to be called Well, it's it's 01:35:58.279 --> 01:36:01.340 basically it's Black Sunday, you know, and, you 01:36:01.340 --> 01:36:03.420 know, there is a teaser out there. I get I get 01:36:03.420 --> 01:36:07.760 sent it to you where, you know, they just submitted 01:36:07.760 --> 01:36:10.899 to Sundance and, you know, see if it gets there. 01:36:11.000 --> 01:36:12.979 But it's, you know, a lot of people are just 01:36:12.979 --> 01:36:16.619 like hard pass. Great. Great. It's a three part 01:36:16.619 --> 01:36:21.350 documentary. really raw you know great music 01:36:21.350 --> 01:36:23.850 great stories but you know we don't have the 01:36:23.850 --> 01:36:26.369 money for right now and i don't know i just look 01:36:26.369 --> 01:36:28.649 to hollywood i'm like well there's a lot of garbage 01:36:28.649 --> 01:36:31.390 that's out there right now it's not that you 01:36:31.390 --> 01:36:33.710 know even in documentaries that you know you 01:36:33.710 --> 01:36:36.770 watch it's like no you gotta throw a serial killer 01:36:36.770 --> 01:36:39.369 into the plot serial killer on black sunday then 01:36:39.369 --> 01:36:40.689 they'll buy it straight away because that's all 01:36:40.689 --> 01:36:43.770 there is on netflix at the moment yeah yeah exactly 01:36:43.770 --> 01:36:47.039 exactly All right. Well, I want to hit one more 01:36:47.039 --> 01:36:50.079 area and then we'll start moving forward towards 01:36:50.079 --> 01:36:53.899 the incident that you referred to. One of the 01:36:53.899 --> 01:36:55.840 things that I think is so important and you hear 01:36:55.840 --> 01:36:58.520 it, I think, especially kind of COVID time moving 01:36:58.520 --> 01:37:01.500 forward is a lot of people say, I missed 9 -12. 01:37:01.640 --> 01:37:03.920 And obviously what they're referring to is, you 01:37:03.920 --> 01:37:05.920 know, when so many people came together and, 01:37:05.939 --> 01:37:08.899 you know, you guys obviously were still. working 01:37:08.899 --> 01:37:10.899 on the pile for months and months and months 01:37:10.899 --> 01:37:14.220 but what so much of the country did you know 01:37:14.220 --> 01:37:17.500 the world in fact um is i think what we need 01:37:17.500 --> 01:37:19.619 more than ever now you know where we've been 01:37:19.619 --> 01:37:22.340 cleaved yet again so talk to me about that whole 01:37:22.340 --> 01:37:25.779 kind of principle it was amazing you know i mean 01:37:25.779 --> 01:37:28.460 it's really what god wants us to do is to you 01:37:28.460 --> 01:37:30.119 know to be compassionate and help out our fellow 01:37:30.119 --> 01:37:33.390 mankind you know and uh You know, I remember 01:37:33.390 --> 01:37:36.609 the first night, like, hoofing back up. Like, 01:37:36.630 --> 01:37:38.350 we didn't have a bus. You know, we're, like, 01:37:38.409 --> 01:37:41.449 in lower Manhattan, and we got to go all the 01:37:41.449 --> 01:37:44.069 way back up to the Bronx, you know, and we're 01:37:44.069 --> 01:37:46.010 hoofing up the West Side Highway. We can't get 01:37:46.010 --> 01:37:48.310 a bus. I mean, it was a long time before we've 01:37:48.310 --> 01:37:50.890 seen transportation, and everybody's out there 01:37:50.890 --> 01:37:54.010 with flags, passing out water, cheering for us. 01:37:54.130 --> 01:37:58.050 You know, at the site itself, you know, there's 01:37:58.050 --> 01:38:01.390 individuals that came in. Whatever they could 01:38:01.390 --> 01:38:06.250 do, mental health, massages, food, you know, 01:38:06.250 --> 01:38:09.449 it was just a come together moment, you know, 01:38:09.449 --> 01:38:12.149 and everybody was compassionate for one another. 01:38:13.710 --> 01:38:19.350 You know, never forget those two words, never 01:38:19.350 --> 01:38:22.829 forget. Man, I can't believe how the country 01:38:22.829 --> 01:38:30.020 forgot. It's just crazy. Again, I'm a vet. But, 01:38:30.079 --> 01:38:32.380 you know, like, you know, and then, you know, 01:38:32.380 --> 01:38:35.659 I am conservative. But what I identify is I'm 01:38:35.659 --> 01:38:38.479 a patriot. That's how I identify. And, you know, 01:38:38.500 --> 01:38:42.260 there was so much pride in the country. And I 01:38:42.260 --> 01:38:45.359 miss that so much. You know, I mean, just think 01:38:45.359 --> 01:38:48.180 about, again, like, think about how many people 01:38:48.180 --> 01:38:50.539 stepped up to the plate and went to war and gave 01:38:50.539 --> 01:38:53.859 their life and lost limbs for our country. Because 01:38:53.859 --> 01:38:56.659 that's sacrifice. We haven't seen that. I mean, 01:38:56.720 --> 01:38:59.720 the greatest generation, World War II. I mean, 01:38:59.739 --> 01:39:05.220 if I could grow up in an era, that would be right 01:39:05.220 --> 01:39:07.319 there, World War II. People go, you're crazy. 01:39:07.659 --> 01:39:12.500 I go, but that was amazing. When I meet an individual 01:39:12.500 --> 01:39:15.899 from that era, I'm like, thank you. Thank you 01:39:15.899 --> 01:39:21.399 so much. I don't know. We can only pray and hope. 01:39:24.239 --> 01:39:28.560 I had a Navy SEAL on just a few couple days ago. 01:39:28.920 --> 01:39:30.880 And he was talking about the difference between 01:39:30.880 --> 01:39:33.420 a citizen and a civilian. I think it was him, 01:39:33.520 --> 01:39:37.439 Johnny. And it was such a great way of looking 01:39:37.439 --> 01:39:39.859 at it because he said a civilian is someone that's 01:39:39.859 --> 01:39:42.260 just part of a country. And they're usually just 01:39:42.260 --> 01:39:44.680 kind of going about their day, receiving all 01:39:44.680 --> 01:39:47.659 the things that are given to them. And that's 01:39:47.659 --> 01:39:50.739 it. He said a citizen is actually a functioning 01:39:50.739 --> 01:39:53.439 part of society that's doing something to try 01:39:53.439 --> 01:39:55.600 and make it better. And I, you know, we were 01:39:55.600 --> 01:39:56.939 talking about this and I was like, and I think 01:39:56.939 --> 01:39:58.760 this is the problem is that we've got a lot of 01:39:58.760 --> 01:40:01.260 people and I'm going back, you know, let's say 01:40:01.260 --> 01:40:03.779 a decade now. So we're spanning both sides of 01:40:03.779 --> 01:40:07.899 the aisle that at the helm presidents and all 01:40:07.899 --> 01:40:11.100 these top, top figures that are civilians, not 01:40:11.100 --> 01:40:13.840 citizens. And I think that's what we need to 01:40:13.840 --> 01:40:16.239 do is look at the incredible human beings that 01:40:16.239 --> 01:40:19.199 stepped up in 9 -11 after the, you know, the 01:40:19.199 --> 01:40:22.439 Grenfell Tower fire, after 7 -7, after all these, 01:40:22.439 --> 01:40:24.699 you know, the Boston bombings, the Vegas shootings, 01:40:24.819 --> 01:40:27.880 all these catastrophic events where it really 01:40:27.880 --> 01:40:32.439 was a spotlight on humanity. And remember what 01:40:32.439 --> 01:40:36.600 a citizen looks like versus a civilian. And if 01:40:36.600 --> 01:40:39.100 you have a civilian wearing a suit, living in 01:40:39.100 --> 01:40:42.189 the White House, that is a fucking problem. And 01:40:42.189 --> 01:40:44.710 that's why we're being divided. But if you have 01:40:44.710 --> 01:40:47.550 a citizen of this country, a patriot, like you 01:40:47.550 --> 01:40:50.109 said, a leader is going to pull people together. 01:40:50.170 --> 01:40:52.670 A tyrant is going to cleave them apart. And that's 01:40:52.670 --> 01:40:58.079 both sides recently. Yeah, absolutely. Well, 01:40:58.100 --> 01:41:00.340 you mentioned again, you know, after that rope 01:41:00.340 --> 01:41:02.520 rescue, a few months later, you had obviously 01:41:02.520 --> 01:41:04.640 a catastrophic event. So let's get to January 01:41:04.640 --> 01:41:09.819 23rd, 2005. We refer to the fire as Black Sunday. 01:41:09.960 --> 01:41:12.460 But, you know, I had, as you said, Chief D on 01:41:12.460 --> 01:41:15.159 the show. And, you know, there were two separate 01:41:15.159 --> 01:41:17.880 fatalities that day. So talk to me about kind 01:41:17.880 --> 01:41:19.659 of, you know, the morning of and walk us through. 01:41:20.380 --> 01:41:24.159 All right. Yeah, the media dubbed it Black Sunday. 01:41:24.439 --> 01:41:26.260 You know, it was only the second time in the 01:41:26.260 --> 01:41:29.800 history of FDNY at two separate incidents that 01:41:29.800 --> 01:41:33.180 there were line of duty deaths, which is kind 01:41:33.180 --> 01:41:38.039 of crazy, you know. But so I came into work the 01:41:38.039 --> 01:41:41.479 night of January 22nd. We were being hit by a 01:41:41.479 --> 01:41:44.779 Northeaster. We were expecting over a foot of 01:41:44.779 --> 01:41:46.600 snow on the ground. Temperature was in the teens. 01:41:47.020 --> 01:41:49.939 Wind was blowing in excess of 45 miles an hour. 01:41:51.560 --> 01:41:56.699 So in my neighborhood where I was living at the 01:41:56.699 --> 01:41:59.859 time, across the street was my wife's childhood 01:41:59.859 --> 01:42:05.420 friend. And she was, Kathleen was a cop's daughter 01:42:05.420 --> 01:42:10.560 for NYPD. And my wife was an NYPD's daughter. 01:42:11.079 --> 01:42:14.800 And both of them got smart. They married fine, 01:42:14.800 --> 01:42:19.180 you know? So my buddy that lived across the street, 01:42:19.239 --> 01:42:25.109 John Gormley, Him and another one of my neighbors, 01:42:25.229 --> 01:42:29.590 Pat, we owned a snowblower together. It was like 01:42:29.590 --> 01:42:32.270 the community snowblower. And we would do each 01:42:32.270 --> 01:42:34.729 other's driveways, you know. And so we're out 01:42:34.729 --> 01:42:37.810 there, you know, clearing the snow and we're 01:42:37.810 --> 01:42:40.329 talking. And my wife's like, yeah, every time 01:42:40.329 --> 01:42:43.649 it snows, guess who's going to work? You're going 01:42:43.649 --> 01:42:45.369 to work. And then I'm stuck with it with the 01:42:45.369 --> 01:42:47.890 kids and snow and everything else. But we're 01:42:47.890 --> 01:42:51.500 out there doing it. I say goodbye to John. I 01:42:51.500 --> 01:42:53.300 don't remember when he was going to work, if 01:42:53.300 --> 01:42:54.800 he went to work that night, but I went to work 01:42:54.800 --> 01:42:57.659 that night, you know, and I'm working six at 01:42:57.659 --> 01:43:00.539 night to six the following night. You know, that's 01:43:00.539 --> 01:43:04.079 normally the way we work. Our schedule gets a 01:43:04.079 --> 01:43:07.420 little complicated, but that's really not relevant. 01:43:07.600 --> 01:43:13.359 And anyway, I go into the firehouse. It's snowing 01:43:13.359 --> 01:43:16.859 still. We have a pretty quiet night tour. Joey's 01:43:16.859 --> 01:43:18.619 got the meal that night. Joey DiPinotto's got 01:43:18.619 --> 01:43:21.420 the night meal. Brought a nice steak dinner in. 01:43:22.640 --> 01:43:27.579 We go about X amount of time, shovel the apron 01:43:27.579 --> 01:43:29.979 on the firehouse. We have two rigs. We have rescue 01:43:29.979 --> 01:43:32.460 three, collapse rig, and we got the main piece, 01:43:32.579 --> 01:43:37.140 the rescue. And we have a few runs, nothing crazy. 01:43:38.079 --> 01:43:40.420 A lot of ball breaking at the table, a lot of 01:43:40.420 --> 01:43:43.880 problem solving, you know, just a great night 01:43:43.880 --> 01:43:47.479 tour. And you never think that that night tour 01:43:47.479 --> 01:43:50.420 or tour in general is going to be your last one. 01:43:50.720 --> 01:43:55.180 I go like, me personally, I mean, I know guys 01:43:55.180 --> 01:43:57.479 die in this job. Guys and gals die in this job, 01:43:57.579 --> 01:44:00.300 you know, but I didn't think I was bulletproof. 01:44:00.539 --> 01:44:04.220 I remember being back in probie school and the 01:44:04.220 --> 01:44:07.020 DI saying one day, look to the left, look to 01:44:07.020 --> 01:44:10.189 the right. guys are going to die in this class. 01:44:10.970 --> 01:44:13.670 Sure enough, 9 -11 came, guys died in the class. 01:44:14.350 --> 01:44:17.949 Then we had a real bad run in FDNY to one year. 01:44:18.069 --> 01:44:20.449 We used to, it was like, it was like line of 01:44:20.449 --> 01:44:22.670 duty after line of duty. I remember it was so 01:44:22.670 --> 01:44:25.529 bad. I came home from a funeral one night and 01:44:25.529 --> 01:44:28.829 talking to my wife, I'm taking off my class A 01:44:28.829 --> 01:44:34.149 and she's like, another fireman was killed. And 01:44:34.149 --> 01:44:37.979 I'm like, no, that was, that was. The funeral 01:44:37.979 --> 01:44:40.279 I was just at. No, another fireman died. It was 01:44:40.279 --> 01:44:44.739 just like one after another. So you never, like, 01:44:44.920 --> 01:44:47.399 I don't know, like, if you just, like, you put 01:44:47.399 --> 01:44:49.859 it out of your mind and you're like, it's not 01:44:49.859 --> 01:44:53.600 going to be me. You know, I never, ever, I'm 01:44:53.600 --> 01:44:56.279 not John Wayne crawling down a hallway. I never 01:44:56.279 --> 01:44:58.500 was John Wayne. I mean, I told my story about, 01:44:58.659 --> 01:45:02.140 you know, the roof rope rescue, but that's the 01:45:02.140 --> 01:45:06.229 job. That's not like doing heroic stuff. I mean, 01:45:06.250 --> 01:45:08.890 there's a lot of heroic stuff that happens in 01:45:08.890 --> 01:45:12.609 this job, but it wasn't like I was. And guys 01:45:12.609 --> 01:45:16.449 die. In the words of the late, great Patty Brown 01:45:16.449 --> 01:45:19.850 that was killed on 9 -11, sometimes we do everything 01:45:19.850 --> 01:45:23.470 right in this job and guys still die. And it's 01:45:23.470 --> 01:45:26.289 factual. I mean, we can't control it. I mean, 01:45:26.369 --> 01:45:31.819 it just is what it is. you know when we come 01:45:31.819 --> 01:45:33.439 into this world the good lord knows when we're 01:45:33.439 --> 01:45:35.180 coming into this world and he knows when we're 01:45:35.180 --> 01:45:37.880 leaving you know and what we do in between that 01:45:37.880 --> 01:45:43.140 dash is so important you know so anyway um you 01:45:43.140 --> 01:45:46.880 know we have this nice meal and ball breaking 01:45:46.880 --> 01:45:50.159 and solving the world's problems and we rest 01:45:50.159 --> 01:45:52.239 our eyes at some point because we never really 01:45:52.239 --> 01:45:54.439 sleep in the job you never you know and we're 01:45:54.439 --> 01:45:58.170 resting our eyes and Just before the 8 o 'clock 01:45:58.170 --> 01:46:02.130 hour, I think it was 0759 hours, you hear this 01:46:02.130 --> 01:46:03.810 box come in, and we're sitting in the kitchen, 01:46:03.890 --> 01:46:06.189 and we're having a cup of coffee, and we're solving 01:46:06.189 --> 01:46:08.229 the world's problems of that day, whatever they 01:46:08.229 --> 01:46:12.229 were, breaking shoes. And it sounds pretty good. 01:46:12.289 --> 01:46:14.909 We're listening up, and shortly after it, you 01:46:14.909 --> 01:46:18.270 know, Rescue 3 is on a box, and it's a job. And 01:46:18.270 --> 01:46:20.970 we get dispatched about a half mile away with 01:46:20.970 --> 01:46:24.109 a foot of snow on the ground, winds blowing in 01:46:24.109 --> 01:46:26.949 excess. of 45 miles an hour and temperature in 01:46:26.949 --> 01:46:30.569 the teens. And we're responding to this box at 01:46:30.569 --> 01:46:35.850 236 East 178th Street for a class three non -fireproof 01:46:35.850 --> 01:46:40.590 multiple dwelling, 40 by 90. That's the dimensions 01:46:40.590 --> 01:46:45.890 of the building. Quick size up. One is a street. 01:46:46.770 --> 01:46:49.489 I don't know, like for firefighters that are 01:46:49.489 --> 01:46:53.270 listening, the front of the building is exposure 01:46:53.270 --> 01:46:56.329 one. The left side of the building is exposure 01:46:56.329 --> 01:47:01.510 two, which is a lot in a private dwelling. Three, 01:47:01.729 --> 01:47:04.869 the rear is a rear alley, and four is a similar 01:47:04.869 --> 01:47:10.890 attached. So fire is on the third floor. It looks 01:47:10.890 --> 01:47:14.470 like a textbook fire. Now, is there any textbook 01:47:14.470 --> 01:47:18.079 fire? No, there's no textbook fire. And then 01:47:18.079 --> 01:47:19.600 I can tell you about a fire that just happened 01:47:19.600 --> 01:47:21.300 the other day in the Bronx. It was a car fire. 01:47:21.460 --> 01:47:24.119 My son was that. It was this huge explosion. 01:47:24.199 --> 01:47:27.220 It went up five, six stories. And it was like 01:47:27.220 --> 01:47:29.920 none that I've ever seen. I talked to senior 01:47:29.920 --> 01:47:34.239 guys about it. Chief Day, Mike Dugan. It was 01:47:34.239 --> 01:47:36.279 Mike Dugan on your show also? I don't know. He 01:47:36.279 --> 01:47:39.899 was, yes. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I'm talking 01:47:39.899 --> 01:47:41.420 to both of them. And they're like, I've never, 01:47:41.500 --> 01:47:44.100 ever seen this. It was a bloody. It was a steel 01:47:44.100 --> 01:47:47.760 gas tank that shot five, six stories in the air. 01:47:47.859 --> 01:47:51.420 It was absolutely crazy. So here we are at this 01:47:51.420 --> 01:47:54.460 textbook fire, if you will. It looks like we're 01:47:54.460 --> 01:47:58.180 going to be here half hour, an hour tops, right? 01:47:58.319 --> 01:48:04.039 And we reported to the chief. Chief, where would 01:48:04.039 --> 01:48:07.260 you like Rescue 3? I went the inside team to 01:48:07.260 --> 01:48:09.119 the top floor. I went the outside team to the 01:48:09.119 --> 01:48:13.520 roof. At some point, there's a report of somebody 01:48:13.520 --> 01:48:16.960 missing in the building. It's three apartments 01:48:16.960 --> 01:48:21.779 per floor. Fire apartment is 3I. We ended up 01:48:21.779 --> 01:48:26.640 on the floor above in 4L. We go in. It's a moderate 01:48:26.640 --> 01:48:29.000 smoke condition. The line is stretched. The secondary 01:48:29.000 --> 01:48:32.619 is to the floor above. It's not charged. They 01:48:32.619 --> 01:48:36.239 ended up losing water on the fire floor at some 01:48:36.239 --> 01:48:38.760 point. They backed the line off the top floor. 01:48:39.289 --> 01:48:41.529 down to the fire floor we continue on without 01:48:41.529 --> 01:48:45.149 the protection of a hand line um we're up there 01:48:45.149 --> 01:48:49.050 with 27 truck 27 truck is a very capable truck 01:48:49.050 --> 01:48:52.390 great truck company um they got the primary searches 01:48:52.390 --> 01:48:55.329 in progress three apartments up there they're 01:48:55.329 --> 01:48:57.550 all popped open everything looks great right 01:48:57.550 --> 01:48:59.109 well that's what you see on the outside when 01:48:59.109 --> 01:49:02.130 you get on the inside um you know when we go 01:49:02.130 --> 01:49:05.369 into a fire i mean you know this james but civilians 01:49:05.369 --> 01:49:07.130 that don't know this is that we're going into 01:49:07.130 --> 01:49:09.739 a maze Well, we went into our hamster habit trail. 01:49:09.880 --> 01:49:11.920 I'm going to date myself, you know, with the 01:49:11.920 --> 01:49:14.619 hamsters that used to put the little pet hamsters 01:49:14.619 --> 01:49:16.979 in, let them run around through their maze and 01:49:16.979 --> 01:49:21.239 stuff. Well, so these apartments, three I and 01:49:21.239 --> 01:49:24.560 four L, they were chopped up into, each apartment 01:49:24.560 --> 01:49:26.960 was chopped up into five more apartments inside 01:49:26.960 --> 01:49:31.000 of them. So there was padlocks and walls that 01:49:31.000 --> 01:49:33.819 weren't supposed to be there. On the fire floor, 01:49:33.960 --> 01:49:40.500 three I, there was a... Two by fours and medium 01:49:40.500 --> 01:49:44.060 density fiberboard that were used as a wall. 01:49:44.199 --> 01:49:46.680 So it was a medium density fiberboard on each 01:49:46.680 --> 01:49:50.619 side of the sheetrock. It ran about 10 to 12 01:49:50.619 --> 01:49:53.159 inches shy of the ceiling because they had old 01:49:53.159 --> 01:49:55.100 radiators in there and they wanted the heat to 01:49:55.100 --> 01:49:57.560 travel over to the other side. These are illegal, 01:49:57.819 --> 01:50:05.439 these single room occupancies. Up in 4L, it got 01:50:05.439 --> 01:50:09.189 worse. It was two -by -fours with double -sided 01:50:09.189 --> 01:50:14.529 sheetrock. And the fire was burning on the fire 01:50:14.529 --> 01:50:19.909 floor. And they lost the water there. And the 01:50:19.909 --> 01:50:22.329 fire continued to burn, continued to burn, continued 01:50:22.329 --> 01:50:24.390 to burn. They were in there pushing. Well, when 01:50:24.390 --> 01:50:26.810 they got the new lawn down there, they thought 01:50:26.810 --> 01:50:28.649 they were actually initially hitting the fire. 01:50:28.729 --> 01:50:34.229 But what it was, the fire was coming over top 01:50:34.229 --> 01:50:36.159 of the wall. And what they were doing, they were 01:50:36.159 --> 01:50:39.319 actually hitting a wall. It was dark in there. 01:50:39.399 --> 01:50:41.500 So they really couldn't see. Even with the thermal 01:50:41.500 --> 01:50:44.800 imaging camera, they couldn't decipher that, 01:50:44.939 --> 01:50:47.800 you know? And so the fire continued to burn and 01:50:47.800 --> 01:50:53.159 make headway. And yeah, so we're up there on 01:50:53.159 --> 01:50:57.100 the top floor. And if you listen to the radio 01:50:57.100 --> 01:50:58.960 transmissions, I don't know if you can add this 01:50:58.960 --> 01:51:02.079 to your podcast because it's interesting because 01:51:02.079 --> 01:51:06.020 within seconds you... They're all up on YouTube. 01:51:06.979 --> 01:51:13.539 You hear the chief asking, you know, what do 01:51:13.539 --> 01:51:15.420 you got up there on the top floor? And Lieutenant 01:51:15.420 --> 01:51:18.680 Curtis Minor, 27 truck, tells him, you know, 01:51:18.699 --> 01:51:21.079 the chief's asking, do you have extension? He 01:51:21.079 --> 01:51:23.699 goes, minor extension, minor extension, Kay. 01:51:24.600 --> 01:51:27.039 Seconds later, you hear we have fire blown out 01:51:27.039 --> 01:51:29.399 into the hallway. We need a line on the top floor. 01:51:29.680 --> 01:51:32.760 And that's my captain, Captain Chris Kay. So 01:51:32.760 --> 01:51:39.300 it goes from zero to 60 in seconds. So we're 01:51:39.300 --> 01:51:41.979 up there searching with 27, and we're going from 01:51:41.979 --> 01:51:44.500 room to room to room, and we're going to the 01:51:44.500 --> 01:51:46.119 other apartments up there, and we're finding 01:51:46.119 --> 01:51:47.659 nothing. But there's still a report of somebody 01:51:47.659 --> 01:51:52.140 trapped up there. So I'm Rescue Lawrence. Joey 01:51:52.140 --> 01:51:55.899 DiBernardo is Rescue Hook, and my boss is Captain 01:51:55.899 --> 01:52:00.079 Chris King. And Chris says to me at one point, 01:52:00.100 --> 01:52:01.899 he goes, Jeff, he goes, I really need you to 01:52:01.899 --> 01:52:03.619 take your tick, your thermal imaging camera, 01:52:03.619 --> 01:52:05.800 and pan the walls, right? And I am. I'm like 01:52:05.800 --> 01:52:08.319 looking. But now I'm even being more diligent. 01:52:08.500 --> 01:52:11.199 And I pan the walls in the kitchen, and I pick 01:52:11.199 --> 01:52:14.079 up fire in a wall. And I take my halogen, and 01:52:14.079 --> 01:52:16.220 I pop a small hole in a wall. Fire immediately 01:52:16.220 --> 01:52:19.199 starts to vent out. So I don't have a face piece 01:52:19.199 --> 01:52:21.619 on at this point. And it starts getting snotty. 01:52:21.739 --> 01:52:24.020 And it's starting to go lights up. I step out. 01:52:24.520 --> 01:52:26.699 Chris is already on the radio. I just said his 01:52:26.699 --> 01:52:28.420 words. You know, we urge you if you need a line 01:52:28.420 --> 01:52:30.619 to the top floor. The line that we had up there 01:52:30.619 --> 01:52:33.020 was backed off. There's not another line up there 01:52:33.020 --> 01:52:36.039 yet. Lieutenant Myers, you said we had minor 01:52:36.039 --> 01:52:38.399 extension. It just goes sideways in a matter 01:52:38.399 --> 01:52:42.180 of seconds. Fires are burning eight times hotter 01:52:42.180 --> 01:52:44.640 and faster today than they ever did 20 years 01:52:44.640 --> 01:52:46.880 ago. You know, with the contents that we have, 01:52:47.000 --> 01:52:51.500 windows not filling. I step out into the hallway. 01:52:51.579 --> 01:52:55.210 I got my tick. Through the smoke, I pick up images 01:52:55.210 --> 01:52:58.229 of these firefighters that are operating beyond 01:52:58.229 --> 01:53:02.090 the main entrance. I advance towards them. I 01:53:02.090 --> 01:53:05.229 have a face -to -face with the firefighter. I 01:53:05.229 --> 01:53:07.289 thought I knew who it was at one time. Now I'm 01:53:07.289 --> 01:53:09.789 not too sure. I said, hey, brother, we need to 01:53:09.789 --> 01:53:15.430 fall back. He says, we're trapped. I turn around, 01:53:15.689 --> 01:53:19.569 and it's floor to ceiling. It's fire. And we 01:53:19.569 --> 01:53:23.319 push into this. back bedroom, which they deemed 01:53:23.319 --> 01:53:26.460 in the diagram town's bedroom too. And the door 01:53:26.460 --> 01:53:30.380 goes closed and May Day after May Day messages 01:53:30.380 --> 01:53:35.659 going off. I mean, I've been on a receiving end 01:53:35.659 --> 01:53:39.739 and a giving end May Days. Two different perspectives. 01:53:43.539 --> 01:53:46.500 We're stepping on each other on the radios. Our 01:53:46.500 --> 01:53:50.460 radios, they work better today than they've ever, 01:53:53.110 --> 01:53:55.729 But we've always had a problem with our radios. 01:53:55.750 --> 01:53:57.729 9 -11, we had a problem with our radios. They 01:53:57.729 --> 01:54:00.210 got better radios. It's the infrastructure in 01:54:00.210 --> 01:54:03.689 New York City and trying to overcome that. And, 01:54:03.770 --> 01:54:06.430 you know, when a mayday is transmitted, you know, 01:54:06.430 --> 01:54:08.430 we're supposed to cease radio operations. The 01:54:08.430 --> 01:54:10.890 incident commander and the individual that's 01:54:10.890 --> 01:54:13.350 trapped is, you know, they're the ones that are 01:54:13.350 --> 01:54:16.109 supposed to be talking. But it's, you know, there's 01:54:16.109 --> 01:54:19.880 a mayday going off from. From Joey D, there's 01:54:19.880 --> 01:54:23.300 a mayday going off from Lieutenant Myron. I transmitted 01:54:23.300 --> 01:54:26.279 a mayday, but unfortunately not all the radio 01:54:26.279 --> 01:54:30.439 transmissions got there. There was a pilot program 01:54:30.439 --> 01:54:34.720 that was started by FDNY to have recording devices 01:54:34.720 --> 01:54:39.739 on the chief's rigs to capture our portable radio, 01:54:39.859 --> 01:54:43.119 our handy talkie transmissions. This is the first 01:54:43.119 --> 01:54:46.119 fatal fire where they actually... captured the 01:54:46.119 --> 01:54:48.539 radio transmissions. Not everything is there. 01:54:48.699 --> 01:54:51.699 I don't think it was deleted. I just don't think 01:54:51.699 --> 01:54:54.960 that the radio is carried to the recording device. 01:54:55.739 --> 01:54:59.939 And now it's a two -sided rescue is in the process. 01:55:00.199 --> 01:55:02.479 You know, the brothers are on a roof. We carry 01:55:02.479 --> 01:55:05.720 a roof rope that I talked about to rescue civilians 01:55:05.720 --> 01:55:09.020 and firefighters. They know we're trapped. We 01:55:09.020 --> 01:55:12.590 get pushed to these windows and we're... It's 01:55:12.590 --> 01:55:14.989 a four -story building, but it's five stories 01:55:14.989 --> 01:55:17.369 to the ground. It's a below -grade entrance. 01:55:19.750 --> 01:55:22.189 Everybody's pushed to the windows. Joey's in 01:55:22.189 --> 01:55:26.109 bedroom one. I'm in bedroom two with Lieutenant 01:55:26.109 --> 01:55:29.649 Myron and Gene Stolowski and Brendan Cawley from 01:55:29.649 --> 01:55:34.189 27 Truck. Gene Stolowski was 27's irons, and 01:55:34.189 --> 01:55:39.909 Brendan Cawley was 27's can man. He was a probie, 01:55:39.989 --> 01:55:44.060 Brendan was. And this is his second fire. His 01:55:44.060 --> 01:55:46.920 brother Michael was killed on 9 -11. And here 01:55:46.920 --> 01:55:50.000 he is, his second fire. He's trapped. And then 01:55:50.000 --> 01:55:52.039 it was also firefighter John Ballew that was 01:55:52.039 --> 01:55:54.100 a friend of mine. He's trapped up there. He was 01:55:54.100 --> 01:55:57.239 a chauffeur at 27 Truck. The fatal fire report, 01:55:57.600 --> 01:56:01.479 it's not just me saying this. There was a lot 01:56:01.479 --> 01:56:05.420 of information that was gained during a very 01:56:05.420 --> 01:56:09.680 stressful time. fighting for our lives still. 01:56:09.859 --> 01:56:12.420 And they put out a fatal fire report. There's 01:56:12.420 --> 01:56:14.300 a lot of fallacies in there, and I'll just leave 01:56:14.300 --> 01:56:16.899 it at that. You know, Gene Stolowski concurs 01:56:16.899 --> 01:56:20.159 with me that it's not factual. We went through 01:56:20.159 --> 01:56:24.260 a civil trial with this whole thing after, and 01:56:24.260 --> 01:56:28.319 we proved that everything was not there. But 01:56:28.319 --> 01:56:31.800 these firefighters, six firefighters are trapped 01:56:31.800 --> 01:56:34.600 at windows, and an aerial can't reach the rear 01:56:34.600 --> 01:56:36.079 of the building because they can't get back there. 01:56:37.560 --> 01:56:40.760 We can't get to the rear fire escape because 01:56:40.760 --> 01:56:44.779 of these illegal walls. So if these walls weren't 01:56:44.779 --> 01:56:47.859 there, even though if we breached them, we're 01:56:47.859 --> 01:56:50.079 going through fire. It delayed us from getting 01:56:50.079 --> 01:56:52.100 there. Now we've got to go through fire and everything 01:56:52.100 --> 01:56:55.800 else to get there. And the kick in the teeth 01:56:55.800 --> 01:56:59.539 or kick in the balls is that housing preservation 01:56:59.539 --> 01:57:03.359 department was at this building six months prior, 01:57:03.640 --> 01:57:08.039 noted SRO conditions. and failed to rectify or 01:57:08.039 --> 01:57:15.699 redeem the situation. The superintendent, landlord, 01:57:16.060 --> 01:57:20.000 owner, they did scumbag moves at this fire. They 01:57:20.000 --> 01:57:22.239 knew what they were doing. They claimed they 01:57:22.239 --> 01:57:24.359 didn't, but we proved that they did, you know, 01:57:24.359 --> 01:57:27.819 in the court of law. They took 30 -amp fuses, 01:57:27.979 --> 01:57:31.460 the old screw -in fuses, in 20 -amp service and 01:57:31.460 --> 01:57:34.460 screwed them in there so that the fuse wouldn't... 01:57:34.640 --> 01:57:39.779 meltdown. On the fire floor, they had a refrigerator, 01:57:40.359 --> 01:57:44.380 a microwave, an Xbox, a TV, and a space heater 01:57:44.380 --> 01:57:47.439 all hooked up into a 99 -cent brown extension 01:57:47.439 --> 01:57:50.319 cord. That's what melted down. It transmitted 01:57:50.319 --> 01:57:53.960 to a bed. The fire continued to burn and burn 01:57:53.960 --> 01:57:57.340 and burn. It burned up. The wind drove it back 01:57:57.340 --> 01:57:59.960 down on top of us, and it was assholes and elbows. 01:58:01.359 --> 01:58:03.859 and mayday after mayday. It was a controlled, 01:58:03.899 --> 01:58:08.720 chaotic atmosphere. We were all pushed to windows. 01:58:09.500 --> 01:58:12.680 Same bedroom, Stolowski, Coley, and Myron are 01:58:12.680 --> 01:58:15.220 at one window. Lieutenant Myron at some point 01:58:15.220 --> 01:58:18.380 decides he's going to hang over the side of the 01:58:18.380 --> 01:58:20.739 building. He's five stories above the ground. 01:58:20.939 --> 01:58:22.840 He says, you're going to hang here by your fingertips 01:58:22.840 --> 01:58:28.439 and drop down. Kurt was a taller man, six foot 01:58:28.439 --> 01:58:32.239 plus. um takes six feet off your fall and he 01:58:32.239 --> 01:58:33.859 dropped down to the ground down to the ground 01:58:33.859 --> 01:58:40.159 he goes um the next one out is uh is is uh brendan 01:58:40.159 --> 01:58:45.819 crawley and uh he goes out the window and then 01:58:45.819 --> 01:58:48.699 firefighter stolowski he got he wrote he gets 01:58:48.699 --> 01:58:51.180 up on the window the room is lighting up fire 01:58:51.180 --> 01:58:54.460 is filling the room and uh he rolls out the window 01:58:54.460 --> 01:58:57.180 he gets hung up on a child guard gate he's hanging 01:58:57.180 --> 01:59:01.930 upside down At some point, his mask was hooked 01:59:01.930 --> 01:59:04.649 to the child guard gate. Let's go down to the 01:59:04.649 --> 01:59:07.829 ground. He goes. I don't physically remember 01:59:07.829 --> 01:59:12.069 seeing these guys go, but it's still there with 01:59:12.069 --> 01:59:14.050 me. And I know I'm the last guy in this room. 01:59:14.869 --> 01:59:19.729 John Ballew, I don't know where he was. I'm going 01:59:19.729 --> 01:59:22.630 to stop there with that part for a minute. Up 01:59:22.630 --> 01:59:27.810 until December of 1999. FDNY, we all had personal 01:59:27.810 --> 01:59:31.770 ropes with a jump to our harness that we could 01:59:31.770 --> 01:59:33.850 quickly and efficiently bail out if the need 01:59:33.850 --> 01:59:37.329 arises. It's like a fighter pilot sitting on 01:59:37.329 --> 01:59:42.210 top of a multimillion -dollar fighter. He can 01:59:42.210 --> 01:59:45.390 quickly and efficiently blow that canopy, hit 01:59:45.390 --> 01:59:47.470 that egress, and that seat ejects out of the 01:59:47.470 --> 01:59:51.010 air, and up he goes and down to the ground he 01:59:51.010 --> 01:59:53.069 comes safely. So we had these ropes that were 01:59:53.069 --> 01:59:56.939 40 feet in length. They're quick and easily deploy. 01:59:57.520 --> 01:59:59.819 And you take your turns on your hook. You bury 01:59:59.819 --> 02:00:02.340 your hand into the wall. We've got to find a 02:00:02.340 --> 02:00:04.439 substantial object first. Flip one end onto the 02:00:04.439 --> 02:00:07.640 substantial object. Trace it back to your area 02:00:07.640 --> 02:00:11.760 of egress. Take your hand out the window. Bury 02:00:11.760 --> 02:00:16.640 it into the wall. Turn back in. Take four turns 02:00:16.640 --> 02:00:21.020 on your hook. Take that same hand. Punch it into 02:00:21.020 --> 02:00:25.000 the wall. Roll out the window. um and then bring 02:00:25.000 --> 02:00:26.880 it back bring your hand back around your back 02:00:26.880 --> 02:00:30.560 for a break and then slightly let it out get 02:00:30.560 --> 02:00:32.880 down 10 feet to the next window or get down to 02:00:32.880 --> 02:00:37.539 the ground you know um our uh fire commissioner 02:00:37.539 --> 02:00:40.560 that was at one time was the union president 02:00:40.560 --> 02:00:43.420 tom von essen decided he knew better than everybody 02:00:43.420 --> 02:00:48.100 else um and took him away from us um i don't 02:00:48.100 --> 02:00:50.399 know if it was a cost saving measure he knew 02:00:50.399 --> 02:00:53.350 better than everybody else You know, we went 02:00:53.350 --> 02:00:55.569 to Bunker Gear. I mean, when I came on a job, 02:00:55.590 --> 02:00:58.229 we were wearing rubber boots and long coats. 02:00:58.630 --> 02:01:03.529 And then, you know, FDNY, unfortunately, we evolved 02:01:03.529 --> 02:01:06.390 through tragedy, right? That's how we learned, 02:01:06.529 --> 02:01:09.289 right? And it was the Watts Street Fire when 02:01:09.289 --> 02:01:12.470 Captain Drennan, Firefighter Seidenberg, and 02:01:12.470 --> 02:01:14.710 Firefighter Young were roasted in a stairwell. 02:01:15.079 --> 02:01:17.039 that's when we got bunker gear so we designed 02:01:17.039 --> 02:01:19.220 this new bunker gear which is great that allows 02:01:19.220 --> 02:01:22.359 fully encapsulates us lets us to go deeper into 02:01:22.359 --> 02:01:26.720 fires um we had the we were the first department 02:01:26.720 --> 02:01:30.779 to incorporate our harness into our turnout gear 02:01:30.779 --> 02:01:34.479 so it actually when you pulled on your your turnout 02:01:34.479 --> 02:01:37.439 pants you had your harness there your rope was 02:01:37.439 --> 02:01:39.600 in your pocket yeah you just had to take your 02:01:39.600 --> 02:01:42.659 rope out find your substantial object Take your 02:01:42.659 --> 02:01:44.520 turns on your hook and out the window you go. 02:01:45.939 --> 02:01:49.600 He decided, and I know this going through court, 02:01:49.699 --> 02:01:52.600 is that he decided we were having heart attacks. 02:01:52.720 --> 02:01:54.739 Guys weren't carrying them. It was all bullshit. 02:01:54.960 --> 02:01:56.939 Whatever reason, he decided to take them away. 02:01:57.039 --> 02:01:59.399 The union fought for it. The sergeant at arms, 02:01:59.460 --> 02:02:01.220 Charlie Ballin, fought and fought and fought 02:02:01.220 --> 02:02:04.079 for it. But he knew better than everybody else. 02:02:04.100 --> 02:02:07.680 And we had 33 documented cases of bailouts with 02:02:07.680 --> 02:02:12.239 personal ropes. With that being said, we weren't 02:02:12.239 --> 02:02:15.600 great at record keeping. Unfortunately, in FDNY 02:02:15.600 --> 02:02:18.399 at the time, a lot of stuff went into the circular 02:02:18.399 --> 02:02:21.840 file, which is the garbage can. Or it was just 02:02:21.840 --> 02:02:25.979 too lazy to be put into the system. So we were 02:02:25.979 --> 02:02:29.500 our own worst enemies at the time. So five of 02:02:29.500 --> 02:02:31.720 the six firefighters that day that went out the 02:02:31.720 --> 02:02:37.979 window had harnesses, but no rope. So it's kind 02:02:37.979 --> 02:02:41.789 of like having an engine. with no water you know 02:02:41.789 --> 02:02:46.949 a pumper with no water or having a pistol without 02:02:46.949 --> 02:02:49.489 no bullets in it you know it's like it's it's 02:02:49.489 --> 02:02:53.909 an oxymoron so three guys jumped that i that 02:02:53.909 --> 02:02:55.869 were in the same room with me and john balloon 02:02:55.869 --> 02:03:00.930 went out a window also i went out and bought 02:03:00.930 --> 02:03:04.609 a rope myself six months to the day prior to 02:03:04.609 --> 02:03:06.989 using it at firehouse magazine trade show in 02:03:06.989 --> 02:03:11.899 baltimore maryland and This rope cost me about 02:03:11.899 --> 02:03:16.600 $375. I put it on my credit card. I was in the 02:03:16.600 --> 02:03:19.979 military. My wife's working a job. You know, 02:03:20.000 --> 02:03:21.899 I'm still an ear guard. I'm working a sod job. 02:03:22.319 --> 02:03:24.960 And both my boys played ice hockey, very expensive. 02:03:25.239 --> 02:03:28.180 Everything was pay the bills in the house, take 02:03:28.180 --> 02:03:30.960 care of the kids, right? So I come home from 02:03:30.960 --> 02:03:35.060 this conference and my wife sees the credit card 02:03:35.060 --> 02:03:38.520 receipt and what's this. She's like, that's crazy. 02:03:38.819 --> 02:03:41.979 And I'm like, this rope may someday save my life. 02:03:42.100 --> 02:03:44.779 Six months to the day, it had a hand in saving 02:03:44.779 --> 02:03:46.439 my life and Joey Day. And I'll tell you that 02:03:46.439 --> 02:03:49.760 story now. He said, so I get pushed up onto this 02:03:49.760 --> 02:03:51.680 window air conditioning unit, five stories above 02:03:51.680 --> 02:03:53.859 the ground. It's probably held in by two screws 02:03:53.859 --> 02:03:57.079 and fire is blowing out over my head. In the 02:03:57.079 --> 02:04:00.239 words of Joey Day, he described that. There's 02:04:00.239 --> 02:04:03.100 video of him talking about it. Fire is blowing 02:04:03.100 --> 02:04:05.880 out over my head like a jet engine. And I look 02:04:05.880 --> 02:04:08.720 to my left, and there's Joey Dick. And I say, 02:04:08.760 --> 02:04:10.560 Joey, I got a rope, but I got nowhere to tie 02:04:10.560 --> 02:04:15.020 it to. He says, throw me the rope. Quick argument. 02:04:15.479 --> 02:04:16.960 I don't know how I'm going to lower him, but 02:04:16.960 --> 02:04:19.260 he goes, you got a wife and kids. You go first. 02:04:21.579 --> 02:04:24.739 The Bible verse, John 15, 13. No greater love 02:04:24.739 --> 02:04:26.600 have one that laid down his life for his friends. 02:04:29.579 --> 02:04:31.720 So I throw Joey one end of the rope. I say a 02:04:31.720 --> 02:04:36.649 quick prayer. He wraps it around his arm, stands 02:04:36.649 --> 02:04:41.350 on it for friction. I take my under rope. I wrap 02:04:41.350 --> 02:04:43.670 it around me in a ballet fashion. I grab onto 02:04:43.670 --> 02:04:46.850 it. I probably have a lot of slack. This is speculation, 02:04:47.250 --> 02:04:50.329 but I'm pretty sure it's what happened. I had 02:04:50.329 --> 02:04:52.270 a lot of slack in it. I roll out the window. 02:04:52.369 --> 02:04:54.529 I didn't take my turns on my harness because 02:04:54.529 --> 02:04:57.170 it's not, it really wasn't incorporated for this. 02:04:57.850 --> 02:05:02.350 But at the same time, this is the fight or flight, 02:05:02.569 --> 02:05:06.279 you know, and. I know we talked about this before 02:05:06.279 --> 02:05:09.739 in a phone conversation is that a normal human 02:05:09.739 --> 02:05:12.319 being under stress cannot tie the shoelaces. 02:05:13.920 --> 02:05:20.560 And I'm in a bad, bad situation, right? I just 02:05:20.560 --> 02:05:24.260 watched three of my brothers jump, four when 02:05:24.260 --> 02:05:27.840 you count John, and I'm waiting and waiting for 02:05:27.840 --> 02:05:29.659 these guys to come over the top with this roof 02:05:29.659 --> 02:05:32.520 rope. But it's not happening. And they're trying 02:05:32.520 --> 02:05:34.199 to get a lineup that they knocked this far down. 02:05:34.359 --> 02:05:36.340 And I have no blame for any of the firefighters 02:05:36.340 --> 02:05:38.560 that were there that day. Everybody was doing 02:05:38.560 --> 02:05:42.140 their job. Unfortunately, you know, we had a 02:05:42.140 --> 02:05:44.579 landlord that was all about money, making more 02:05:44.579 --> 02:05:47.640 money and exploiting these people that lived 02:05:47.640 --> 02:05:52.060 in Swar. And I roll out the window. I pendulum 02:05:52.060 --> 02:05:55.819 in the rear on the three side to the two side, 02:05:55.859 --> 02:05:57.680 the left hand side of the building. I come back 02:05:57.680 --> 02:06:01.180 in. I hit the window right underneath Joey. and 02:06:01.180 --> 02:06:04.039 my hands opened up. I got cut like 15 feet off 02:06:04.039 --> 02:06:07.840 my fall, and down to the ground I go. And I land 02:06:07.840 --> 02:06:10.920 an inch or two from falling in that below -grade 02:06:10.920 --> 02:06:15.619 entrance where Firefighter Blue, Stolowski, Qualley, 02:06:15.699 --> 02:06:18.399 and Lieutenant Iron landed. Joey takes the same 02:06:18.399 --> 02:06:22.039 rope, flips it onto a child guard gate, rolls 02:06:22.039 --> 02:06:25.260 out the window in a belay fashion, loses control 02:06:25.260 --> 02:06:26.859 of the rope. I don't know how many feet he cut 02:06:26.859 --> 02:06:30.010 off his rope. He crashes. to the below -grade 02:06:30.010 --> 02:06:34.029 entrance. Catastrophic injuries for all of us. 02:06:34.130 --> 02:06:38.970 We lost Curtis Myron that day. John Ballew would 02:06:38.970 --> 02:06:44.890 pass later on that day in the hospital. And Stolowski 02:06:44.890 --> 02:06:49.090 has got an internal decapitation. His knee came 02:06:49.090 --> 02:06:51.729 up, hit his chin, drove his head back, and he 02:06:51.729 --> 02:06:55.789 was dead. He was not breathing. I'm the first 02:06:55.789 --> 02:06:57.289 guy that they get to when they come around the 02:06:57.289 --> 02:06:58.970 side of the building. My buddy, Steve Gillespie, 02:06:59.069 --> 02:07:01.310 that you have on, he's coming around. He told 02:07:01.310 --> 02:07:03.329 me this a couple of years ago. He's in squad 02:07:03.329 --> 02:07:05.930 41. He's coming around the two side of the building. 02:07:06.369 --> 02:07:09.090 He looks up and he thinks they're overhauling. 02:07:09.149 --> 02:07:11.890 Like you see stuff coming down and I come down 02:07:11.890 --> 02:07:14.989 right in front of him and it's me. And he's like, 02:07:15.050 --> 02:07:17.229 holy shit. You know, I didn't know this until 02:07:17.229 --> 02:07:23.609 a couple of years ago. And he's got to move on. 02:07:23.689 --> 02:07:25.149 He's talking to me. He knows I'm in a lot of 02:07:25.149 --> 02:07:28.149 pain, but other guys are in bad shape. And Gene 02:07:28.149 --> 02:07:30.670 is the worst out of all of us. I mean, Kurt's 02:07:30.670 --> 02:07:35.590 dead, but Gene has that internal decapitation. 02:07:35.590 --> 02:07:40.069 He's not breathing. And a member of Squad 41 02:07:40.069 --> 02:07:42.430 that was a former paramedic does a jaw thrust 02:07:42.430 --> 02:07:45.689 on him and stabilizes his neck and gets a breather. 02:07:46.390 --> 02:07:50.369 And he had a less than 5 % chance of living and 02:07:50.369 --> 02:07:52.890 or walking again. And I played golf with him 02:07:52.890 --> 02:07:54.890 a couple of times in the last few months. You 02:07:54.890 --> 02:07:57.329 know, I mean, he hits off the ladies' tees, but 02:07:57.329 --> 02:08:04.630 it's all good. You know, it's all good. You know, 02:08:04.649 --> 02:08:09.310 I suffered catastrophic injuries. Joey's suffered 02:08:09.310 --> 02:08:11.050 catastrophic. I mean, I broke almost every bone 02:08:11.050 --> 02:08:14.029 in my body. I shattered my pelvis. I bled out 02:08:14.029 --> 02:08:16.390 72 units of blood before they had all the bleeding 02:08:16.390 --> 02:08:22.109 stuff. I had a flail chest. compartment syndrome 02:08:22.109 --> 02:08:27.430 of my abdomen. Um, um, they had to cut me from 02:08:27.430 --> 02:08:29.489 my sternum to my belly button, take all my internal 02:08:29.489 --> 02:08:31.569 organs and rest them outside of my body. It broke 02:08:31.569 --> 02:08:34.670 both my shoulders. My pelvis is still racked. 02:08:34.770 --> 02:08:37.289 Um, my left shoulder is still in five pieces. 02:08:37.949 --> 02:08:40.390 Um, my right shoulder is in two or three pieces. 02:08:40.449 --> 02:08:43.489 I had fractures in my cranium burns, but I'm 02:08:43.489 --> 02:08:51.619 here, you know, um, um, He walked out of the 02:08:51.619 --> 02:08:53.500 hospital like 10 days later. I think it was like 02:08:53.500 --> 02:08:55.079 10 days later he walked out of the hospital. 02:08:55.279 --> 02:08:56.939 He's still a firefighter with the city of New 02:08:56.939 --> 02:09:01.100 York today. The binary intervention, an angel, 02:09:01.239 --> 02:09:04.880 his brother Michael protected him that day to 02:09:04.880 --> 02:09:07.600 not let mom and dad go through the same pain 02:09:07.600 --> 02:09:13.880 again. You know, amazing. You know, Joey, catastrophic 02:09:13.880 --> 02:09:16.760 injuries, like broke all the bones in his feet, 02:09:16.920 --> 02:09:20.369 broke his pelvis, you know. I mean, a lot of 02:09:20.369 --> 02:09:23.090 injuries, both physically and mentally. Physical 02:09:23.090 --> 02:09:26.909 and mental pain was tremendous for all of us. 02:09:28.189 --> 02:09:32.949 All of us spent different times in ICU, intubated. 02:09:34.449 --> 02:09:40.390 Gene was, they trached Gene. He spent the longest 02:09:40.390 --> 02:09:45.250 in this. From the minute my wife got to the hospital. 02:09:48.700 --> 02:09:51.159 She's talking to my doctor, Dr. Michelle, and 02:09:51.159 --> 02:09:54.159 she says, my head is tremendously swollen up. 02:09:55.819 --> 02:09:58.260 Firefighters I talk to, they're like, everybody 02:09:58.260 --> 02:10:02.039 thought I was dead. He's dead. He's not making 02:10:02.039 --> 02:10:06.239 it through this. Dr. Michelle told my wife, Jill, 02:10:06.359 --> 02:10:11.640 all my injuries. My wife said, put them back 02:10:11.640 --> 02:10:13.560 together any way you can, and I'll take them. 02:10:14.180 --> 02:10:19.859 She met, and I... Put her through hell for, I 02:10:19.859 --> 02:10:22.800 don't know, like maybe she would still say I'm 02:10:22.800 --> 02:10:24.699 still putting her through hell. But I mean, I 02:10:24.699 --> 02:10:27.859 think the worst is the worst is behind us. I 02:10:27.859 --> 02:10:32.060 mean, it took a tremendous amount of time to, 02:10:32.159 --> 02:10:34.840 like I had to learn to walk and function again. 02:10:35.039 --> 02:10:38.060 And I'm not asking anybody to feel sorry for 02:10:38.060 --> 02:10:41.039 me. I remember, you know, I did the hospital 02:10:41.039 --> 02:10:43.100 that I was in, like where I did my rehab was 02:10:43.100 --> 02:10:46.140 Helen Hayes Rehab Hospital. one of the top hospitals 02:10:46.140 --> 02:10:48.979 in New York for rehab. And it was in my backyard. 02:10:49.899 --> 02:10:52.920 And I fought with my doctors to get out of ICU 02:10:52.920 --> 02:10:57.939 to get to Helen Hayes so I could see my children 02:10:57.939 --> 02:11:01.579 on a daily basis. No, I mean, I couldn't get 02:11:01.579 --> 02:11:05.739 up with them. I mean, I had my body's put together 02:11:05.739 --> 02:11:10.840 by crazy glue and duct tape. And not literally, 02:11:10.960 --> 02:11:13.760 but I mean. Normally, when you break your pelvis, 02:11:13.979 --> 02:11:17.479 you have plates and screws in your shoulder. 02:11:18.220 --> 02:11:20.520 There's artificial parts that they put in there. 02:11:20.600 --> 02:11:25.140 I don't have any artificial parts. I had an external 02:11:25.140 --> 02:11:27.460 fixator put in my pelvis because of my thermal 02:11:27.460 --> 02:11:30.399 bleed, my abdominal compartment syndrome. They 02:11:30.399 --> 02:11:32.500 just couldn't do it. So my pelvis is twisted 02:11:32.500 --> 02:11:35.180 and racked. I'm in a daily pain. I had compression 02:11:35.180 --> 02:11:40.000 fractures up and down my back. I was in bad, 02:11:40.020 --> 02:11:45.979 bad shape, you know. And I had an external fixator 02:11:45.979 --> 02:11:48.479 in my pelvis. I had five and a half inch titanium 02:11:48.479 --> 02:11:52.600 bolts on either side of my pelvis with like a 02:11:52.600 --> 02:11:55.260 halo, like you see a football player, like a 02:11:55.260 --> 02:11:57.100 neck injury. But that's what I had across my 02:11:57.100 --> 02:12:00.439 pelvis. I was probably 205 the day I got hurt. 02:12:00.579 --> 02:12:06.430 I just turned 38 five days prior. When I first 02:12:06.430 --> 02:12:10.449 weighed myself, I think I was 145 pounds. I mean, 02:12:10.470 --> 02:12:12.630 I looked like somebody out of a concentration 02:12:12.630 --> 02:12:16.430 camp. It was that bad. And I remember, you know, 02:12:16.449 --> 02:12:22.529 every day was a struggle to just wake up and 02:12:22.529 --> 02:12:24.890 want to live. You know, I mean, I cried a lot. 02:12:24.949 --> 02:12:27.069 I prayed to God a lot. I got, you know, I got 02:12:27.069 --> 02:12:33.109 real close with God. I overcame that, you know, 02:12:33.109 --> 02:12:35.390 but it took a long time. And then I still dealt 02:12:35.390 --> 02:12:38.029 with pain through all those years, you know, 02:12:38.050 --> 02:12:43.869 like months, days. It was a long time. I was 02:12:43.869 --> 02:12:46.590 on fentanyl. I was on oxycodone. I was on morphine. 02:12:46.590 --> 02:12:52.750 I was on Ambien. And I was washing it down with 02:12:52.750 --> 02:12:57.109 Heineken. Not looking to kill myself, but I just 02:12:57.109 --> 02:12:59.069 wanted to sleep. I didn't want to feel pain. 02:13:00.020 --> 02:13:02.640 And, you know, hindsight's 20 -20. Was it right? 02:13:02.840 --> 02:13:06.539 No, no. Down the road when I got out of, you 02:13:06.539 --> 02:13:09.039 know, I was like two and a half months inpatient 02:13:09.039 --> 02:13:11.579 at a rehab hospital, over a year outpatient, 02:13:11.739 --> 02:13:15.020 learning to walk and function and move my shoulders. 02:13:15.319 --> 02:13:18.319 And, you know, like I don't have like complete 02:13:18.319 --> 02:13:22.880 mobility. You know, it's like I stumble from 02:13:22.880 --> 02:13:25.039 time to time, you know, when I walk. And, you 02:13:25.039 --> 02:13:26.520 know, one of my friends, he asked me, he goes. 02:13:27.300 --> 02:13:29.720 why do you walk bowlegged? I go, what do you 02:13:29.720 --> 02:13:31.640 think I walk bowlegged, asshole? You know why 02:13:31.640 --> 02:13:34.500 I walk bowlegged. You know? And then I get people, 02:13:34.560 --> 02:13:36.199 you know, they look at me, I don't use my handicap 02:13:36.199 --> 02:13:38.380 thing all the time. You know, like I put, you 02:13:38.380 --> 02:13:39.960 know, handicap and I was listening to one of 02:13:39.960 --> 02:13:43.020 the SEAL talk about this on another podcast. 02:13:43.140 --> 02:13:45.699 You know, it's like, you know, because I've gotten 02:13:45.699 --> 02:13:47.640 out of a car, you know, in a handicap spot and 02:13:47.640 --> 02:13:49.739 somebody looks at me and they go, you're handicapped? 02:13:49.880 --> 02:13:51.300 You know, and I get into it with them. Well, 02:13:51.380 --> 02:13:53.920 this guy, Kevin Kent, you know, he's friends 02:13:53.920 --> 02:13:56.579 with Bird too. It's like. you know he he's a 02:13:56.579 --> 02:14:00.100 disabled military vet right so he gets out of 02:14:00.100 --> 02:14:03.420 the car you know like um you don't look disabled 02:14:03.420 --> 02:14:06.520 he's like thank you very much yeah thanks for 02:14:06.520 --> 02:14:09.880 noticing it's like i'm gonna do it this time 02:14:09.880 --> 02:14:12.319 you know because you know what i look at i look 02:14:12.319 --> 02:14:14.699 at me you know like i have a time a hard time 02:14:14.699 --> 02:14:20.000 seeing brendan quali myself and gene stilowski 02:14:20.000 --> 02:14:23.479 when we're side by side and like we went the 02:14:23.479 --> 02:14:27.250 same We went out the same floor and we all have 02:14:27.250 --> 02:14:30.010 different results and a different result. And 02:14:30.010 --> 02:14:32.029 then, and then those different results even get 02:14:32.029 --> 02:14:33.930 darker. You know, when John Ballew died that, 02:14:33.970 --> 02:14:36.970 you know, that day and then Kurt Myron died that 02:14:36.970 --> 02:14:39.409 day and then Joey died six years later, you know, 02:14:39.409 --> 02:14:46.649 um, it gets dark, you know, it's like, um, you 02:14:46.649 --> 02:14:50.479 know, I, uh, I got awful pain meds first, first 02:14:50.479 --> 02:14:52.680 and foremost. My brother worked in pharmaceuticals. 02:14:52.680 --> 02:14:54.640 My wife was real scared with me being on all 02:14:54.640 --> 02:14:56.760 these. Dude, we didn't even know what fentanyl 02:14:56.760 --> 02:14:59.239 was back then, you know, 20 years ago. Like what 02:14:59.239 --> 02:15:01.239 fentanyl? I was on these patches. They had to 02:15:01.239 --> 02:15:03.399 wean me off and my wife had to put gloves on, 02:15:03.500 --> 02:15:06.560 but I was on morphine. I tripped on morphine. 02:15:06.579 --> 02:15:08.899 Like you wouldn't believe it was like, it was 02:15:08.899 --> 02:15:11.819 the craziest. Like I'm not a combat veteran. 02:15:11.979 --> 02:15:14.220 You know, I served my country for 21 years, but 02:15:14.220 --> 02:15:18.079 I was like. I felt like I was in combat. I felt 02:15:18.079 --> 02:15:20.399 like snakes were around me. It just had me like 02:15:20.399 --> 02:15:23.060 crazy. Like I never, ever want to be on that 02:15:23.060 --> 02:15:26.600 stuff again. And it, it never, whatever pain 02:15:26.600 --> 02:15:29.159 medicine I was on, it never took the complete 02:15:29.159 --> 02:15:34.840 pain away. It just, it just pacified it. You 02:15:34.840 --> 02:15:36.579 know, I mean, you were still in pain. It was 02:15:36.579 --> 02:15:38.739 just pacified it, you know, and it was just. 02:15:39.420 --> 02:15:41.819 And then I was like, I mean, I started right 02:15:41.819 --> 02:15:44.359 in an ICU. Well, not an ICU. Yeah. When I was 02:15:44.359 --> 02:15:46.060 still in the hospital, I was still in ICU and, 02:15:46.140 --> 02:15:50.180 um, um, they were doing, um, uh, whatchamacallit, 02:15:50.220 --> 02:15:55.659 um, Reiki. And, um, and I said, I'll give it 02:15:55.659 --> 02:15:57.899 a try. Holistic medicine. I'll give it a try. 02:15:58.260 --> 02:16:01.600 And then, uh, one of my, my reverend came and 02:16:01.600 --> 02:16:04.920 seen me and his, his wife, uh, she was suffering 02:16:04.920 --> 02:16:08.060 from, um, from Lyme disease, real bad. And, uh, 02:16:08.510 --> 02:16:11.689 She was doing acupuncture, and I was talking 02:16:11.689 --> 02:16:14.710 to him about it, and I went to the same doctor, 02:16:14.810 --> 02:16:18.710 and he's an MD. His name is Dr. Anthony Lau, 02:16:18.930 --> 02:16:23.689 and I hope he's still alive. He's an amazing 02:16:23.689 --> 02:16:29.689 individual. He's from China, and he was an anesthesiologist 02:16:29.689 --> 02:16:33.350 that left anesthesiology and just started practicing 02:16:33.350 --> 02:16:37.149 acupuncture. I was walking with a cane for a 02:16:37.149 --> 02:16:39.299 long time. And he helped me lay a cane down. 02:16:39.799 --> 02:16:42.780 And then I was doing cranial sacral therapy. 02:16:44.340 --> 02:16:46.579 Mental health, that was a whole other thing, 02:16:46.719 --> 02:16:49.260 you know, dealing with that. You know, God got 02:16:49.260 --> 02:16:51.860 me good. I thank God. And I was like, oh, thanks, 02:16:51.920 --> 02:16:55.159 God. See you later on Donald Road. And it kind 02:16:55.159 --> 02:16:59.479 of went about my way, you know. And then I got 02:16:59.479 --> 02:17:01.639 sick down the road again like 11 years later. 02:17:01.819 --> 02:17:04.399 I don't know if it was 9 -11 or whatever it was. 02:17:04.620 --> 02:17:06.700 And, you know, then I got good with God again. 02:17:08.000 --> 02:17:10.600 Um, a lot of mental health, you know, like my, 02:17:10.700 --> 02:17:12.639 you know, like I was in and out with mental health, 02:17:12.700 --> 02:17:15.100 talking to different people and I lost my shit 02:17:15.100 --> 02:17:19.159 more, more times than one with my wife, blew 02:17:19.159 --> 02:17:21.479 up in front of my children, didn't behave the 02:17:21.479 --> 02:17:25.659 right way. Um, you know, I have a lot of, a lot 02:17:25.659 --> 02:17:28.899 of regret for, you know, who I was and, you know, 02:17:28.899 --> 02:17:32.659 I was suicidal at times, you know, I, I had ropes 02:17:32.659 --> 02:17:36.639 tied up, you know, ready to hang myself. I thought 02:17:36.639 --> 02:17:39.319 about suicide by cop. I thought about just driving 02:17:39.319 --> 02:17:45.860 my car into a wall. The pain, you know, was just 02:17:45.860 --> 02:17:48.840 too much. And, you know, part of me died in that 02:17:48.840 --> 02:17:51.040 back alley that day, you know, even though I'm 02:17:51.040 --> 02:17:54.940 here. You know, I'm good with where I am today. 02:17:55.059 --> 02:17:57.340 You know, I'm not in front of it, you know. But, 02:17:57.340 --> 02:18:01.440 I mean, I struggled for a really, really long 02:18:01.440 --> 02:18:06.520 time, you know. I was talking to Johnny the other 02:18:06.520 --> 02:18:10.979 day, and he was talking about, more or less talking 02:18:10.979 --> 02:18:12.659 about mental health. And one of our friends made 02:18:12.659 --> 02:18:16.020 a post, and I missed the job. I'm like, Johnny, 02:18:16.180 --> 02:18:18.899 we all fucking missed the job. And I kind of 02:18:18.899 --> 02:18:23.020 went at him. I did go at him. I wasn't kind. 02:18:23.139 --> 02:18:25.079 I went at him. I'm like, you know, there was 02:18:25.079 --> 02:18:26.979 a guy in a 42 truck the other day. He made two 02:18:26.979 --> 02:18:29.860 grabs. I go, nobody's talking about this guy. 02:18:29.940 --> 02:18:32.209 This guy was innovating. You know, I go, nobody's 02:18:32.209 --> 02:18:33.870 talking about it. Nobody knows anything about 02:18:33.870 --> 02:18:37.170 him and what he's going through. And another 02:18:37.170 --> 02:18:40.170 guy went down, a freak accident at a job, and 02:18:40.170 --> 02:18:43.389 I'm telling him about that. And then I get news 02:18:43.389 --> 02:18:45.010 about one of my buddies, and I'm not going to 02:18:45.010 --> 02:18:48.350 tell you who he is. I heard he lost his life. 02:18:48.590 --> 02:18:52.530 I heard he passed. And then a day later, I find 02:18:52.530 --> 02:18:54.930 out he took his life. He got injured in the line 02:18:54.930 --> 02:18:58.209 of duty. And, you know, we're not in this battle 02:18:58.209 --> 02:19:00.750 alone. you know, and, you know, we lean on one 02:19:00.750 --> 02:19:04.229 another. Gene Stolowski and I, you know, 18 years 02:19:04.229 --> 02:19:07.950 ago, well, 18 years from the fire, we're golfing 02:19:07.950 --> 02:19:11.569 in Austin, Texas, and we're sharing the same 02:19:11.569 --> 02:19:15.170 hotel room, two separate beds, just so we're 02:19:15.170 --> 02:19:19.909 clear. And he's laying there in his tighty -whities, 02:19:20.030 --> 02:19:23.309 and Gene's not mobile. You know, he's very labor. 02:19:23.370 --> 02:19:25.430 He walks with a cane, and he, like, you know, 02:19:25.450 --> 02:19:28.030 most of the time he rides with a rascal. um to 02:19:28.030 --> 02:19:31.909 get around and uh and i said hey brother you 02:19:31.909 --> 02:19:33.709 want some coffee he's like yeah so i go down 02:19:33.709 --> 02:19:36.030 to the lobby get coffee i come back upstairs 02:19:36.030 --> 02:19:40.989 we went down this rabbit hole like that was it 02:19:40.989 --> 02:19:43.170 was 18 years later and we went down this rabbit 02:19:43.170 --> 02:19:45.909 hole we're crying like babies like talking about 02:19:45.909 --> 02:19:48.809 this like stuff that we never discussed and you 02:19:48.809 --> 02:19:50.850 know talking about what sets us off you know 02:19:50.850 --> 02:19:52.629 like i could be watching something with my wife 02:19:52.629 --> 02:19:55.229 and tears are running down my face and gene's 02:19:55.229 --> 02:19:57.729 like i could be watching a cartoon And it'll 02:19:57.729 --> 02:19:59.309 set me off. And then you talk to another guy 02:19:59.309 --> 02:20:01.629 and it's the same thing. You know, it's like, 02:20:01.629 --> 02:20:08.629 how is this? But, you know, going back to the 02:20:08.629 --> 02:20:11.309 Misfit Toy Club, our Misfit Toys, you know, they, 02:20:11.489 --> 02:20:15.510 I don't know, people still line up to join the 02:20:15.510 --> 02:20:17.469 Misfit Toy Club. You don't want to be in a Misfit 02:20:17.469 --> 02:20:20.469 Toy Club. But fortunately, I'm a member of it. 02:20:20.510 --> 02:20:22.989 But I'm out in front of it. You know, we talk 02:20:22.989 --> 02:20:25.719 to one another. and help each other through through 02:20:25.719 --> 02:20:28.420 the tough times you know it's like because that's 02:20:28.420 --> 02:20:30.319 what we need to do because you're not in this 02:20:30.319 --> 02:20:33.059 fight alone you know um i made this big post 02:20:33.059 --> 02:20:35.319 about it the other day because i want people 02:20:35.319 --> 02:20:38.860 to know the phone is on you know i i lost a i 02:20:38.860 --> 02:20:41.739 lost a buddy just recently i gotta talk about 02:20:41.739 --> 02:20:46.479 this guy trying to get too teary -eyed about 02:20:46.479 --> 02:20:52.719 it because you know you know i've had more than 02:20:52.719 --> 02:20:56.260 one Navy SEAL. I mean, Ryan's not the only Navy 02:20:56.260 --> 02:20:59.379 SEAL that I that I know, but he's like, you guys 02:20:59.379 --> 02:21:04.180 are you guys are like us, you know, and. That 02:21:04.180 --> 02:21:07.239 that's a compliment and I guess a curse, you 02:21:07.239 --> 02:21:11.040 know, because we don't we don't ever get to stop, 02:21:11.239 --> 02:21:13.500 you know, like, I mean, we're constantly going 02:21:13.500 --> 02:21:18.000 to to fires and emergencies and we see it just 02:21:18.000 --> 02:21:22.979 the way that our. Our SEAL community is out there. 02:21:23.020 --> 02:21:26.000 They're in the thick of it. They lead from the 02:21:26.000 --> 02:21:34.680 tip of the spear. Anyway, my buddy Keith Winchell, 02:21:34.780 --> 02:21:37.459 he was in the Air National Guard with me. He 02:21:37.459 --> 02:21:42.680 was a fireman with me. Great guy. Funny as shit. 02:21:42.979 --> 02:21:49.700 Loved him. Always full of laughs. When I got 02:21:49.700 --> 02:21:52.879 hurt and I left St. Barnabas Hospital in the 02:21:52.879 --> 02:21:56.680 Bronx and went to my rehab hospital, Helen Hayes 02:21:56.680 --> 02:21:58.860 Hospital, I was still in really bad shape. That 02:21:58.860 --> 02:22:01.819 external fixator was in me, and they had to transport 02:22:01.819 --> 02:22:05.440 me by ambulance. They were shooting me up with 02:22:05.440 --> 02:22:08.100 morphine on the way. The highways were shut down 02:22:08.100 --> 02:22:12.600 as I was on them. There was processions by fire 02:22:12.600 --> 02:22:15.680 departments up and down the highways. There was 02:22:15.680 --> 02:22:20.790 a helicopter flying next to us. Um, and the lead 02:22:20.790 --> 02:22:23.549 radio car of the police car was my buddy, Keith 02:22:23.549 --> 02:22:26.069 Winchell, uh, highway one police officer. He 02:22:26.069 --> 02:22:28.049 became, you know, he was a mounted police officer. 02:22:28.090 --> 02:22:30.370 He rode a motorcycle and everything, and he was 02:22:30.370 --> 02:22:32.829 tackled there. He was, he was that guy. He led 02:22:32.829 --> 02:22:37.149 from the tip of the spear and an NYPD. And, uh, 02:22:37.350 --> 02:22:41.170 two years after I got hurt, he was chasing a 02:22:41.170 --> 02:22:43.649 motorcycle on a motorcycle and he got clipped 02:22:43.649 --> 02:22:45.909 by a car and he had an incomplete L4 injury. 02:22:46.670 --> 02:22:49.430 And, uh, he ended up in a chair. Didn't stop 02:22:49.430 --> 02:22:53.709 him. He would race. And he lived in Florida in 02:22:53.709 --> 02:22:57.110 the Tampa area. He would do bike races in the 02:22:57.110 --> 02:23:00.510 chair. An avid outdoorsman, continued to hunt 02:23:00.510 --> 02:23:05.510 from his chair or track vehicle and enjoying 02:23:05.510 --> 02:23:09.969 life. And we talked often, you know, once a month, 02:23:10.190 --> 02:23:12.790 once a week, whatever it was, whatever was going 02:23:12.790 --> 02:23:17.260 on. And, you know, I was his. You know, I listened 02:23:17.260 --> 02:23:20.020 to his stories. He listened to mine, you know, 02:23:20.020 --> 02:23:23.620 and we leaned on one another. That wasn't enough. 02:23:23.840 --> 02:23:26.159 You know, I mean, he suffered so much. He had 02:23:26.159 --> 02:23:29.680 three battles with prostate cancer from the effects 02:23:29.680 --> 02:23:38.000 of 9 -11. And it took him and I miss him. But, 02:23:38.120 --> 02:23:43.020 you know, we always talked and the phone was 02:23:43.020 --> 02:23:45.709 on. He was one of the guys that... my phone's 02:23:45.709 --> 02:23:48.670 in do not disturb mode his call was coming through 02:23:48.670 --> 02:23:50.709 like my families you know and that's what we 02:23:50.709 --> 02:23:54.209 need to do you know for for our brothers and 02:23:54.209 --> 02:23:57.329 sisters you know i'm sorry you know i'm i'm from 02:23:57.329 --> 02:23:59.750 old school you know and i i didn't work with 02:23:59.750 --> 02:24:02.129 any females in my time you know it was all you 02:24:02.129 --> 02:24:04.829 know it was all the brotherhood you know so um 02:24:04.829 --> 02:24:10.629 but yeah Well, I want to get to some of the things 02:24:10.629 --> 02:24:12.290 that are available to people now, some of the 02:24:12.290 --> 02:24:13.809 things that you and I were talking about before 02:24:13.809 --> 02:24:16.270 we hit record as far as other plant medicines 02:24:16.270 --> 02:24:18.389 when we're talking about the addiction and the 02:24:18.389 --> 02:24:21.309 mental health crisis in our profession. But you 02:24:21.309 --> 02:24:25.069 told me before we started this about how suicide 02:24:25.069 --> 02:24:27.489 was very personal within your family. So let's 02:24:27.489 --> 02:24:30.270 kind of go back there and then walk through some 02:24:30.270 --> 02:24:33.139 of the solutions to people listening now. Yeah, 02:24:33.200 --> 02:24:36.219 so my first year, I was about a year on a job, 02:24:36.260 --> 02:24:38.879 and I lost my dad to suicide. I was there that 02:24:38.879 --> 02:24:41.799 day, and I don't want to get into details of 02:24:41.799 --> 02:24:44.680 why he did it. I still don't know why he did 02:24:44.680 --> 02:24:47.819 it. I just know that all these years later, I 02:24:47.819 --> 02:24:50.139 still feel the sting. My brother feels the sting. 02:24:50.639 --> 02:24:56.940 Mom felt the sting until we lost her, and I hope 02:24:56.940 --> 02:25:00.780 it takes the pain away from that person. But 02:25:00.780 --> 02:25:05.420 it doesn't, you know, it leaves it with the family 02:25:05.420 --> 02:25:12.959 forever, you know. And, you know, it's a cowardly 02:25:12.959 --> 02:25:16.420 thing to do. It really is. You know, there's 02:25:16.420 --> 02:25:19.379 such a network out there. There's so much mental 02:25:19.379 --> 02:25:21.979 health out there. Like, I remember after 9 -11, 02:25:22.239 --> 02:25:25.600 right, we drove the counselors out of the firehouse. 02:25:25.739 --> 02:25:29.750 We weren't ready for, like. civilians like to 02:25:29.750 --> 02:25:31.989 come in and tell us how to deal. Like, I mean, 02:25:32.010 --> 02:25:34.770 they would go get like a rubber arm out of a, 02:25:34.870 --> 02:25:37.309 and throw it in a spaffle bucket and bring it 02:25:37.309 --> 02:25:38.790 in the kitchen. Look what we found. And they 02:25:38.790 --> 02:25:41.110 would run out of the, you know, run out of the 02:25:41.110 --> 02:25:44.110 firehouse. You know, it's like, but that's like, 02:25:44.190 --> 02:25:49.709 that's what it was. FDNY, unfortunately, we've 02:25:49.709 --> 02:25:53.489 perfected mental health to an extent. I don't 02:25:53.489 --> 02:25:55.909 think we've perfected it. We've made it so much 02:25:55.909 --> 02:25:59.409 better. that everybody looks like the model for 02:25:59.409 --> 02:26:02.709 the fire service right now is looked at fdny 02:26:02.709 --> 02:26:06.950 like like because we know how to do it unfortunately 02:26:06.950 --> 02:26:09.049 through tragedy that's how we know how to do 02:26:09.049 --> 02:26:14.430 it you know and uh um there's a lot of stuff 02:26:14.430 --> 02:26:19.530 out there um to help um i just recently became 02:26:19.530 --> 02:26:21.629 a peer counselor i've been doing peer counseling 02:26:21.629 --> 02:26:25.469 unofficially um and i'm not a i'm not perfect 02:26:25.469 --> 02:26:27.610 at it I am definitely not perfect. I'm going 02:26:27.610 --> 02:26:28.950 to be the guy that's going to be sitting there 02:26:28.950 --> 02:26:31.350 listening and learning. You want to come talk 02:26:31.350 --> 02:26:32.930 to me on the side, I'll tell you what I've been 02:26:32.930 --> 02:26:35.909 through and how I got through it. First and foremost 02:26:35.909 --> 02:26:39.889 is probably my dear wife and how she's put up 02:26:39.889 --> 02:26:43.870 with so much of my shit. But we're always looking 02:26:43.870 --> 02:26:46.909 for answers and solutions. Because it's not just 02:26:46.909 --> 02:26:51.569 you that you're driving. The anger that you feel 02:26:51.569 --> 02:26:53.909 is spilled out into your family and your friendships. 02:26:55.159 --> 02:26:57.940 You know, you become more and more shallow. And, 02:26:57.959 --> 02:27:01.020 you know, there's so much out there today. You 02:27:01.020 --> 02:27:03.739 know, it's not taking a pill, you know, to really 02:27:03.739 --> 02:27:06.739 to get in front of this. Every doctor you go 02:27:06.739 --> 02:27:08.719 to, that's what they want to do. They're sitting 02:27:08.719 --> 02:27:10.799 down there with their head down, not looking 02:27:10.799 --> 02:27:13.180 at you. They don't want to really get to the 02:27:13.180 --> 02:27:14.899 root of the problem. They want to get to the 02:27:14.899 --> 02:27:16.860 next patient. You know, I don't want to say there's 02:27:16.860 --> 02:27:19.639 not some great doctors out there. But, you know, 02:27:19.659 --> 02:27:22.840 I mean, you know, it's not taking a pill. you 02:27:22.840 --> 02:27:26.459 know um it's finding the right counselor um and 02:27:26.459 --> 02:27:29.360 then you know just recently the topic of conversation 02:27:29.360 --> 02:27:31.420 has been in the last couple years and the hot 02:27:31.420 --> 02:27:34.459 topic in the last couple months is ibogaine you 02:27:34.459 --> 02:27:37.040 know and and and doing you know not just doing 02:27:37.040 --> 02:27:40.139 the ibogaine uh treatment but you know having 02:27:40.139 --> 02:27:42.500 you know coaches there and breathing techniques 02:27:42.500 --> 02:27:44.639 and everything and i'm learning more and more 02:27:44.639 --> 02:27:47.819 about it each and every day and i and i and you 02:27:47.819 --> 02:27:50.120 know one of your one of your guests which i consider 02:27:50.120 --> 02:27:53.399 to be A great, great person is Angela Skuden. 02:27:53.479 --> 02:27:56.479 You know, the tragedy that she went through and 02:27:56.479 --> 02:27:58.959 to, you know, to make life better, you know, 02:27:58.959 --> 02:28:02.340 is starting the 343 Fund and, you know, providing 02:28:02.340 --> 02:28:07.180 resources to first responders and our service 02:28:07.180 --> 02:28:10.680 members, you know, which is phenomenal. You know, 02:28:10.700 --> 02:28:14.100 I personally know, I know a few people that have 02:28:14.100 --> 02:28:16.020 went through it and I've been weighing it. I've 02:28:16.020 --> 02:28:20.239 talked to Angela, you know. possibly going through 02:28:20.239 --> 02:28:24.040 it. Um, I've had a lot going on in my life, not 02:28:24.040 --> 02:28:26.360 life or death right now, but stuff going on at 02:28:26.360 --> 02:28:28.639 home that I haven't been able to really address 02:28:28.639 --> 02:28:32.579 it right now. Um, but I, I do plan on, you know, 02:28:32.579 --> 02:28:35.280 like really addressing it and, uh, you know, 02:28:35.280 --> 02:28:37.819 just, just, just know that there's, there's other 02:28:37.819 --> 02:28:40.780 resources out there, you know, um, you know, 02:28:40.780 --> 02:28:43.040 going back to Joey, you know, like real quick, 02:28:43.120 --> 02:28:45.040 you know, everybody like what happened with Joey? 02:28:45.100 --> 02:28:46.540 Yeah. I'm sure everybody's going to have that 02:28:46.540 --> 02:28:48.620 question. What happened with Joe? Right. Because 02:28:48.620 --> 02:28:52.559 I was I was in such shock when I got the news 02:28:52.559 --> 02:28:55.200 that Joey passed. I didn't even cry initially. 02:28:55.479 --> 02:28:58.500 I was crushed. He was in a lot of pain, both 02:28:58.500 --> 02:29:00.540 physically and mentally. A lot of pain was in 02:29:00.540 --> 02:29:02.520 his feet because he broke all the bones in his 02:29:02.520 --> 02:29:06.280 feet. But then he was also on psychological medicine. 02:29:06.479 --> 02:29:10.700 Right. And I don't know if he took two batches 02:29:10.700 --> 02:29:12.920 that day. His dad was just recently. We just 02:29:12.920 --> 02:29:14.680 had a training seminar and he was talking to 02:29:14.680 --> 02:29:17.100 the students. And he said he had a lot of memory 02:29:17.100 --> 02:29:20.479 recall issues, like short -term memory stuff. 02:29:20.940 --> 02:29:24.479 And did he take his medicine that morning? And 02:29:24.479 --> 02:29:27.120 I tell you, some of the maintenance medication 02:29:27.120 --> 02:29:31.559 that I'm on, like, did I take it today? You know, 02:29:31.559 --> 02:29:34.280 and then you take it twice, you know. But taking 02:29:34.280 --> 02:29:39.000 some of this medicine twice, you know, it put 02:29:39.000 --> 02:29:41.379 him into respiratory distress, and we lost him. 02:29:41.500 --> 02:29:44.319 But Joey was in the best place of his life. that 02:29:44.319 --> 02:29:47.020 i've seen him since his accident when we lost 02:29:47.020 --> 02:29:50.959 him november 22nd 2011. he was he had a new girlfriend 02:29:50.959 --> 02:29:54.200 um that we haven't met yet he was like everything 02:29:54.200 --> 02:29:56.659 was life's good what's up brother love you brother 02:29:56.659 --> 02:29:59.780 and then here he's gone it's just like it was 02:29:59.780 --> 02:30:01.799 just like another crushing blow it's like when 02:30:01.799 --> 02:30:06.819 is this gonna end you know and uh you know they're 02:30:06.819 --> 02:30:11.680 you know it can't just be the fda every day and 02:30:11.680 --> 02:30:14.739 big pharma you know here's another pill to fix 02:30:14.739 --> 02:30:18.100 this because that's all you know i i don't know 02:30:18.100 --> 02:30:20.440 if there's that cure or pill out there you know 02:30:20.440 --> 02:30:26.520 um i've had this conversation with many many 02:30:26.520 --> 02:30:28.479 people obviously there's a lot of people on here 02:30:28.479 --> 02:30:31.860 that have had incredible results with one of 02:30:31.860 --> 02:30:35.420 the tools being Ibogaine, Ayahuasca, MDMA. And 02:30:35.420 --> 02:30:38.379 if you look at recently, MDMA was actually denied 02:30:38.379 --> 02:30:42.520 by the FDA to do MDMA -assisted psychotherapy. 02:30:43.000 --> 02:30:45.979 But the FDA was one of the approved OxyContin 02:30:45.979 --> 02:30:49.219 that then created this opioid crisis that we're 02:30:49.219 --> 02:30:51.979 still dealing with today. So that needs to be 02:30:51.979 --> 02:30:54.920 a fucking conversation right there. Going back 02:30:54.920 --> 02:30:57.120 to what you said as suicide, and this is something 02:30:57.120 --> 02:30:59.700 that I've... evolved and learned from all these 02:30:59.700 --> 02:31:01.879 people because i've had you know almost 1200 02:31:01.879 --> 02:31:05.799 conversations now and many many of whom were 02:31:05.799 --> 02:31:07.959 at that point they were as you were saying you're 02:31:07.959 --> 02:31:10.120 looking at the noose or holding the gun some 02:31:10.120 --> 02:31:11.379 of them went through with it and they survived 02:31:11.379 --> 02:31:13.120 and thank god they were they were on the show 02:31:13.120 --> 02:31:16.780 but i started hearing the same thing again and 02:31:16.780 --> 02:31:19.680 and it totally reframed the way you know that 02:31:19.680 --> 02:31:23.120 i think too We, you know, the natural reaction 02:31:23.120 --> 02:31:25.299 is to think, well, suicide is cowardly. It's 02:31:25.299 --> 02:31:28.459 selfish. How could you think of the family? But 02:31:28.459 --> 02:31:30.340 then you listen to these people that were there 02:31:30.340 --> 02:31:34.360 and through the perfect storm of, and there are 02:31:34.360 --> 02:31:36.639 so many elements, unaddressed childhood trauma, 02:31:36.780 --> 02:31:39.299 sleep deprivation, organizational betrayal, relationship 02:31:39.299 --> 02:31:41.600 issues, the side effects of alcohol, side effects 02:31:41.600 --> 02:31:43.540 of psych meds, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 02:31:44.520 --> 02:31:48.299 The brain literally becomes miswired. And you 02:31:48.299 --> 02:31:50.340 have people that a lot of them listening in this 02:31:50.340 --> 02:31:54.219 podcast have signed a blank check to risk their 02:31:54.219 --> 02:31:56.879 lives or even give their lives for complete strangers, 02:31:57.059 --> 02:32:00.000 just as we talked about. So now you have this 02:32:00.000 --> 02:32:02.860 shifting, this miswiring of the brain through 02:32:02.860 --> 02:32:05.780 all these insults that it's getting, where now 02:32:05.780 --> 02:32:10.920 their actual reality is, I am a burden. I'm the 02:32:10.920 --> 02:32:14.579 reason why my family are in pain. If I just remove 02:32:14.579 --> 02:32:17.899 myself. they will be better off now for anyone 02:32:17.899 --> 02:32:20.180 with a healthy brain listening to go but that 02:32:20.180 --> 02:32:23.260 doesn't make any sense exactly but when it's 02:32:23.260 --> 02:32:25.940 this brain in this distorted state it makes perfect 02:32:25.940 --> 02:32:28.440 sense to them now you add in the fact that you're 02:32:28.440 --> 02:32:31.319 already willing to die for a stranger now you've 02:32:31.319 --> 02:32:33.920 got the perfect storm for a first responder suicide 02:32:33.920 --> 02:32:38.940 and so what i realize now is at that moment that 02:32:38.940 --> 02:32:42.500 actually was most likely a selfless and courageous 02:32:42.500 --> 02:32:46.059 act they were probably terrified But they did 02:32:46.059 --> 02:32:48.000 it for the people that they love in that distorted 02:32:48.000 --> 02:32:50.680 state. So I think the more that we can frame 02:32:50.680 --> 02:32:52.659 that, if you are listening to a voice in your 02:32:52.659 --> 02:32:55.219 head saying you're a burden, you're the problem. 02:32:55.360 --> 02:32:57.799 If you just leave, everyone will be happier. 02:32:58.260 --> 02:33:00.659 That should be on the front of every fucking, 02:33:00.739 --> 02:33:03.479 you know, suicide prevention poster out there. 02:33:03.559 --> 02:33:06.239 Because aside from wanting the suffering to end, 02:33:06.319 --> 02:33:08.059 which of course, whether it's physical, mental 02:33:08.059 --> 02:33:10.750 or both. That is the other thing that I hear 02:33:10.750 --> 02:33:12.889 over and over again. And I think it's important 02:33:12.889 --> 02:33:15.090 because then everyone who's lost someone like 02:33:15.090 --> 02:33:18.290 you losing your father, it reframes what they 02:33:18.290 --> 02:33:20.469 were thinking at that point. And it don't think 02:33:20.469 --> 02:33:23.370 it is, fuck my family. I'm just going to take 02:33:23.370 --> 02:33:25.969 myself out. I think it's the opposite. I love 02:33:25.969 --> 02:33:29.209 my family. I'm the burden. If I just do this, 02:33:29.370 --> 02:33:31.729 they'll be happier. You know what you're saying, 02:33:31.809 --> 02:33:33.690 Adam? I'm looking at notes that I've had here 02:33:33.690 --> 02:33:36.600 that I've used. lectures and whatever. And I'm 02:33:36.600 --> 02:33:39.139 like, and it's like, why me? Why did I live? 02:33:39.540 --> 02:33:41.659 You know? And it's like, you know, it's like, 02:33:41.799 --> 02:33:43.459 but you know, that's questions that I've had, 02:33:43.559 --> 02:33:46.340 you know, and I, I live with PTSD, you know, 02:33:46.340 --> 02:33:48.399 it's in check survivor's guilt. Cause I was the 02:33:48.399 --> 02:33:51.180 rescue for him. And you know, when, you know, 02:33:51.180 --> 02:33:53.940 I'm the guy, I mean, rescue was born to rescue 02:33:53.940 --> 02:33:56.920 trap firefighters. That's why the rescue was 02:33:56.920 --> 02:34:02.100 there. But, you know, I mean, But I, you know, 02:34:02.120 --> 02:34:04.639 here's another podcast. This is powerful stuff. 02:34:04.819 --> 02:34:07.940 You know, it's like, this is Joe Rogan, right? 02:34:08.040 --> 02:34:10.399 I wrote this quote down. It says, if you don't 02:34:10.399 --> 02:34:14.020 leave your past in the past, it will destroy 02:34:14.020 --> 02:34:18.239 your future. Live for what today is, for what 02:34:18.239 --> 02:34:20.739 today has to offer, not for what yesterday has 02:34:20.739 --> 02:34:24.139 taken away. And that's, that's powerful stuff. 02:34:24.280 --> 02:34:27.360 You know, it's like. You know, and I like I save 02:34:27.360 --> 02:34:29.579 notes for a reason. You know, it's like to look 02:34:29.579 --> 02:34:32.840 back and, you know, you need to it needs to be 02:34:32.840 --> 02:34:34.620 like right in front of you all the day. You know, 02:34:34.639 --> 02:34:36.780 it's like like with a horse with blinders in 02:34:36.780 --> 02:34:39.139 front of you. You just see those those quotes. 02:34:39.219 --> 02:34:42.420 It's like, you know, because I think through 02:34:42.420 --> 02:34:46.739 through tragedy must come triumph. You know, 02:34:46.739 --> 02:34:49.440 there's got to be something good. God put us 02:34:49.440 --> 02:34:52.600 in this storm for a reason. I don't know what 02:34:52.600 --> 02:34:55.899 the reason is and why, you know, we. And certain 02:34:55.899 --> 02:34:58.819 people have to go through, you know, I mean, 02:34:58.819 --> 02:35:01.280 there's, I mean, there's people that are going 02:35:01.280 --> 02:35:04.360 through worse stuff than I have, you know, don't 02:35:04.360 --> 02:35:08.459 feel sorry for me. But why? I don't know. It's 02:35:08.459 --> 02:35:10.260 how you get through it and how you navigate it. 02:35:10.319 --> 02:35:13.700 And you need, you need support, you know, and 02:35:13.700 --> 02:35:16.020 when somebody says, I don't have a family, well, 02:35:16.180 --> 02:35:18.959 there is support still out there for you. And 02:35:18.959 --> 02:35:22.079 I was blessed that I had my wife there and my 02:35:22.079 --> 02:35:25.780 children, specifically my wife, to help me through 02:35:25.780 --> 02:35:32.379 this whole ordeal. She is my rock. And she's 02:35:32.379 --> 02:35:36.040 always looking for answers, still today. It's 02:35:36.040 --> 02:35:38.079 all about longevity. We're both getting ready 02:35:38.079 --> 02:35:41.379 to turn 59. She's five days my old lady. Yeah, 02:35:41.459 --> 02:35:49.319 I got me a cougar. But, yeah. it's just it's 02:35:49.319 --> 02:35:52.260 just important you know to have uh support and 02:35:52.260 --> 02:35:55.219 you know that know that you're not in this battle 02:35:55.219 --> 02:35:59.100 alone you know it's like yeah well i think and 02:35:59.100 --> 02:36:01.860 that's just the thing is every other we said 02:36:01.860 --> 02:36:04.500 earlier everyone that we've lost we cannot get 02:36:04.500 --> 02:36:07.500 back but what can we do to change it and that 02:36:07.500 --> 02:36:09.819 can be you know putting ropes as funny as orange 02:36:09.819 --> 02:36:13.500 county florida when i worked there um let me 02:36:13.500 --> 02:36:17.579 see i was there 2008 so not too long after you 02:36:17.579 --> 02:36:20.659 know your horrendous line of duty deaths that 02:36:20.659 --> 02:36:22.719 filtered into the fire service where i worked 02:36:22.719 --> 02:36:25.520 and i had you know um harnesses in my bunker 02:36:25.520 --> 02:36:27.120 gear and i had rescue rope and i actually had 02:36:27.120 --> 02:36:29.639 rescue rope in previous departments but orange 02:36:29.639 --> 02:36:31.459 county didn't have any of that when i first got 02:36:31.459 --> 02:36:33.600 there so that's the technical side and we'll 02:36:33.600 --> 02:36:36.739 get to the foundation in a second um yeah let's 02:36:36.739 --> 02:36:38.559 talk let's talk about that james you know because 02:36:38.559 --> 02:36:40.260 with the ropes so when they took the ropes away 02:36:40.260 --> 02:36:42.860 from us right they were supposed to replace them 02:36:42.860 --> 02:36:45.020 that's what the department order said but they 02:36:45.020 --> 02:36:49.159 never did it right that was 890 000 when they 02:36:49.159 --> 02:36:50.739 when they took the ropes away if they would have 02:36:50.739 --> 02:36:52.440 just replaced them and gave us the same ropes 02:36:52.440 --> 02:36:56.979 they spent 16 .5 million dollars to develop this 02:36:56.979 --> 02:37:00.139 new system fdny did right and every firefighter 02:37:00.139 --> 02:37:02.840 for the city of new york has a personal safety 02:37:02.840 --> 02:37:11.159 system today because of Black Sunday. But why 02:37:11.159 --> 02:37:14.620 should it take that? And why in the fire service 02:37:14.620 --> 02:37:17.540 today? I mean, I've traveled all across the United 02:37:17.540 --> 02:37:19.860 States and I talk to different, I'm a guy that 02:37:19.860 --> 02:37:21.420 always talks to firefighters. I see somebody 02:37:21.420 --> 02:37:22.920 with a shirt on, a hat on, what are you doing? 02:37:23.280 --> 02:37:27.180 So I'm in Podunk, USA to one day and in an airport 02:37:27.180 --> 02:37:31.680 and I see this firefighter. I'm like, hey, I'm 02:37:31.680 --> 02:37:34.299 Jeff Kuhl. I go, I'm retired out of Rescue 3. 02:37:34.399 --> 02:37:37.920 Hey, how you doing? I said, are you on a job? 02:37:38.000 --> 02:37:39.659 I said, where are you on a job at? He goes, I'm 02:37:39.659 --> 02:37:41.159 on a job. I go, yeah, I know that. Where are 02:37:41.159 --> 02:37:43.860 you on a job at? Well, Podunk, USA. I go, you 02:37:43.860 --> 02:37:46.379 know, the Black Sunday Fire? No, he's a newer 02:37:46.379 --> 02:37:48.979 firefighter. Do you know bailout ropes? No. Well, 02:37:49.000 --> 02:37:52.420 here comes the chief of this Podunk, USA, right? 02:37:53.809 --> 02:37:55.850 I'm like, hey, Chief, I'm Jeff Kuhl. I'm with 02:37:55.850 --> 02:37:58.510 the Joey D Foundation. I give him my card. I 02:37:58.510 --> 02:38:00.170 go, hey, we provide grants to fire departments 02:38:00.170 --> 02:38:01.829 across North America that don't have bailout 02:38:01.829 --> 02:38:04.750 systems. You know, the fire block Sunday. He's 02:38:04.750 --> 02:38:07.930 like, no. I'm like, Chief, I go, not for nothing. 02:38:08.110 --> 02:38:10.209 I go, you're a leader in the job. I go, you should 02:38:10.209 --> 02:38:13.290 be into the job. No, not just be on the job. 02:38:13.750 --> 02:38:16.930 And, you know, whether it happens on the East 02:38:16.930 --> 02:38:19.049 Coast, West Coast, North, South, you know, when 02:38:19.049 --> 02:38:21.549 a big fire like that happens. You should know 02:38:21.549 --> 02:38:23.389 about it. I mean, major incidents, you should 02:38:23.389 --> 02:38:25.850 know about it. I still know about major incidents. 02:38:26.149 --> 02:38:31.409 And still today, the fire service fights personal 02:38:31.409 --> 02:38:35.309 safety ropes. My own job, FDNY guys are fighting 02:38:35.309 --> 02:38:42.389 the system. And you know what? Many of the procedures 02:38:42.389 --> 02:38:45.469 that we follow in FDNY, you know what they're 02:38:45.469 --> 02:38:48.329 written in? The blood of my brothers that were 02:38:48.329 --> 02:38:51.059 killed in the line of duty. you know and that's 02:38:51.059 --> 02:38:54.020 that's the words of the the late uh the the great 02:38:54.020 --> 02:38:57.280 uh captain bobby morris of rescue one that's 02:38:57.280 --> 02:38:59.559 now the commissioner of the stanford fire department 02:38:59.559 --> 02:39:02.979 you know um you know we need to learn from our 02:39:02.979 --> 02:39:04.959 past because you know if we don't learn from 02:39:04.959 --> 02:39:08.120 you know history history is bound to repeat itself 02:39:08.120 --> 02:39:11.600 you know and why why do we fight evolution you 02:39:11.600 --> 02:39:13.860 know we fought bunker gear we fight everything 02:39:13.860 --> 02:39:19.680 you know it's like Yeah, even the way that we're 02:39:19.680 --> 02:39:22.040 worked, this is something that I talk about a 02:39:22.040 --> 02:39:26.340 lot. You know, there is no need for any studies 02:39:26.340 --> 02:39:29.559 to show that 56 hours, you know, then add in 02:39:29.559 --> 02:39:32.979 mandatory overtime, 80 hours plus is killing. 02:39:33.680 --> 02:39:35.500 You know, firefighters left, right and center. 02:39:35.559 --> 02:39:38.760 And just like a bailout row, we know that a healthy 02:39:38.760 --> 02:39:41.760 work week would mitigate so many of these issues. 02:39:41.959 --> 02:39:43.840 And, you know, we lose so many. I mean, we lose 02:39:43.840 --> 02:39:46.959 like 100 in what we used to call line of duty 02:39:46.959 --> 02:39:49.239 deaths and actual operations and then heart disease 02:39:49.239 --> 02:39:53.059 and cancer. But now it's double that in suicides. 02:39:53.059 --> 02:39:54.979 And, you know, how many in overdoses? Because 02:39:54.979 --> 02:39:58.680 that's more stigmatized still. So if we're really 02:39:58.680 --> 02:40:00.340 going to be serious about saving firefighters' 02:40:00.559 --> 02:40:02.280 lives, we need to look at the operational side, 02:40:02.340 --> 02:40:04.620 but we also need to look at, like we said, mental 02:40:04.620 --> 02:40:08.180 health tools and then sleep, rest, recovery, 02:40:08.440 --> 02:40:10.979 so that you can be the best version of yourself. 02:40:11.260 --> 02:40:14.520 But yeah, there's no bigger spitting in the face 02:40:14.520 --> 02:40:16.719 of someone that you've lost to do absolutely 02:40:16.719 --> 02:40:19.700 nothing after it's happened to try and change 02:40:19.700 --> 02:40:25.860 it. Yeah. For sure. All right. Well, you mentioned 02:40:25.860 --> 02:40:27.479 the foundation. Let's expand a little bit on 02:40:27.479 --> 02:40:29.659 that so people know about it and can donate. 02:40:30.479 --> 02:40:35.559 So when we lost Joey, we were crushed. First 02:40:35.559 --> 02:40:37.639 and foremost, his family, his mom and dad and 02:40:37.639 --> 02:40:42.479 sister, you know, and how, you know, what can 02:40:42.479 --> 02:40:47.139 we do to keep his memory alive? And John Salka, 02:40:47.139 --> 02:40:51.500 Chief John Salka. Captain Mike Dugan, they were 02:40:51.500 --> 02:40:54.079 talking to Chief D and some of Joey's friends 02:40:54.079 --> 02:40:57.840 and, hey, let's do a training seminar for Joey 02:40:57.840 --> 02:41:01.299 and, you know, raise some awareness and yada, 02:41:01.299 --> 02:41:05.280 yada, yada. And out of that, the Joey D, Lieutenant 02:41:05.280 --> 02:41:07.899 Joseph P. DiBernardo Memorial Foundation was 02:41:07.899 --> 02:41:13.700 born and that was 12 years ago. And our mission 02:41:13.700 --> 02:41:17.799 statement is to provide personal safety systems 02:41:17.799 --> 02:41:19.780 and the training to fire departments across North 02:41:19.780 --> 02:41:25.120 America. In 12 years, we've awarded $1 .5 million 02:41:25.120 --> 02:41:27.559 in grants to fire departments across North America, 02:41:27.700 --> 02:41:31.719 30 some odd states. And we hold a huge training 02:41:31.719 --> 02:41:34.639 seminar each year. That's our big fundraiser, 02:41:34.799 --> 02:41:38.020 Suffolk County Fire Academy in November. It's 02:41:38.020 --> 02:41:39.899 a three -day seminar. First started out just 02:41:39.899 --> 02:41:43.909 like a one -day lecture. We evolved. I would 02:41:43.909 --> 02:41:47.670 say that we're, I know that this probably pissed 02:41:47.670 --> 02:41:50.729 people off, but we're better than FDIC or Firehouse 02:41:50.729 --> 02:41:55.350 right now because it's not for profit. Any profit 02:41:55.350 --> 02:41:59.190 that we raise goes back out there to make firefighters 02:41:59.190 --> 02:42:03.590 safer. I think that we work like, you know, like 02:42:03.590 --> 02:42:08.469 95 cents of every dollar that's awarded goes 02:42:08.469 --> 02:42:12.680 back out there to firefighters. You know, everybody 02:42:12.680 --> 02:42:16.520 that sits on the board, a chief is the president 02:42:16.520 --> 02:42:22.540 of the foundation. We have two co -vice presidents, 02:42:22.719 --> 02:42:25.159 Billy Rohr and Kevin Yost, both retired from 02:42:25.159 --> 02:42:28.899 FDNY, and then his friends. I'm one of their 02:42:28.899 --> 02:42:31.620 friends, and I'm a trustee that sits on the board. 02:42:31.739 --> 02:42:34.500 We do it for the love of the fire service and, 02:42:34.540 --> 02:42:36.260 you know, to pay it forward and to make sure 02:42:36.260 --> 02:42:38.120 that it never happens to another firefighter. 02:42:38.809 --> 02:42:41.430 And, you know, the PSS has saved firefighters' 02:42:41.709 --> 02:42:44.670 lives. I'll tell you for a fact, a couple of 02:42:44.670 --> 02:42:48.229 years ago in the Bronx, a member of Squad 61, 02:42:48.530 --> 02:42:53.469 his name is Joe Morstat. He bailed out of, I 02:42:53.469 --> 02:42:56.350 think it was like a three -story building with 02:42:56.350 --> 02:42:59.989 the PSS. He got trapped. It went sideways real 02:42:59.989 --> 02:43:06.469 quick. And I talked to him that morning. He credited. 02:43:07.189 --> 02:43:11.989 the sacrifices of Black Sunday for saving his 02:43:11.989 --> 02:43:13.909 life that day. He's still a firefighter today. 02:43:14.450 --> 02:43:19.510 So we run these big training seminars. It's two 02:43:19.510 --> 02:43:22.829 days of hands -on, one day of lectures. We bring 02:43:22.829 --> 02:43:25.069 in the best in the fire service from across the 02:43:25.069 --> 02:43:28.270 country. All our instructors, they do it pro 02:43:28.270 --> 02:43:31.569 bono too. We pay for their hotels and their flights. 02:43:32.219 --> 02:43:36.559 But they received no pay for it. And we've trained 02:43:36.559 --> 02:43:40.200 thousands and thousands of firefighters. In the 02:43:40.200 --> 02:43:43.020 United States, a couple of years ago, our furthest 02:43:43.020 --> 02:43:45.719 was Honolulu, Hawaii. We had a bunch of Hawaiian 02:43:45.719 --> 02:43:47.840 firefighters come in to Long Island to get trained. 02:43:49.879 --> 02:43:53.399 We had firefighters from north of the border 02:43:53.399 --> 02:43:57.299 coming in from Canada. And this year, we had 02:43:57.299 --> 02:44:02.239 two Ecuadorian firefighters come in. We're touching 02:44:02.239 --> 02:44:06.760 the world now, which is amazing. And I think 02:44:06.760 --> 02:44:09.299 it's four years ago, we branched out into Texas. 02:44:09.360 --> 02:44:13.159 We run another seminar in Texas. And that one's 02:44:13.159 --> 02:44:17.379 coming up. I wrote notes down here. It's February 02:44:17.379 --> 02:44:24.540 20th and 22nd of 2026. But it's just amazing 02:44:24.540 --> 02:44:27.500 to see the thousands of firefighters that we've 02:44:27.500 --> 02:44:29.899 trained at these seminars to go back and touch 02:44:29.899 --> 02:44:33.540 their own departments. and train more firefighters 02:44:33.540 --> 02:44:36.379 you know and you know and we're giving firefighters 02:44:36.379 --> 02:44:39.319 an opportunity you know it's like we've spent 02:44:39.319 --> 02:44:42.860 thousands and thousands of dollars on firefighters 02:44:42.860 --> 02:44:46.440 on their ppe personal protective equipment to 02:44:46.440 --> 02:44:48.659 allow them to go in to save lives and property 02:44:48.659 --> 02:44:52.559 yet we don't spend another couple hundred dollars 02:44:52.559 --> 02:44:55.340 to afford that firefighter the opportunity the 02:44:55.340 --> 02:44:58.760 need to quickly and efficiently bail out if the 02:44:58.760 --> 02:45:02.489 need arises Because there is no greater death 02:45:02.489 --> 02:45:07.870 and pain to stay there and burn to death or jump 02:45:07.870 --> 02:45:11.010 and hope for the best. Where a 10 -foot fall 02:45:11.010 --> 02:45:14.149 might not kill you, you'd definitely be sitting 02:45:14.149 --> 02:45:17.440 in a chair for the rest of your life. Sipping 02:45:17.440 --> 02:45:20.500 out of a sippy cup, which is not a great place 02:45:20.500 --> 02:45:23.260 to be either. And we owe it to our firefighters. 02:45:23.459 --> 02:45:26.719 And why we don't do it, I don't know. A lot of 02:45:26.719 --> 02:45:31.860 it is money. I mean, I can tell you this. It's 02:45:31.860 --> 02:45:35.940 an important fact is that in, I think it was 02:45:35.940 --> 02:45:42.879 2009. My brain is going a little sideways. I 02:45:42.879 --> 02:45:49.299 may have some notes here. But in 2009, we had 02:45:49.299 --> 02:45:51.940 10 firefighters. It was actually 2009. We had 02:45:51.940 --> 02:45:55.379 10 firefighters in the state of New York jump 02:45:55.379 --> 02:45:57.360 out of three -story or less wood -framed structures. 02:45:58.379 --> 02:46:02.139 So this is not big city stuff, right? So it was 02:46:02.139 --> 02:46:04.159 the city of Buffalo, city of Syracuse, and the 02:46:04.159 --> 02:46:06.459 city of Yonkers. Ten firefighters, three -story 02:46:06.459 --> 02:46:09.059 or less wood -framed structures. City of Yonkers, 02:46:09.280 --> 02:46:12.420 for those that don't know the geography of New 02:46:12.420 --> 02:46:15.340 York State. City of Yonkers butts right up against 02:46:15.340 --> 02:46:21.180 the Bronx. January 23rd, 2005, six firefighters 02:46:21.180 --> 02:46:23.520 went out a window there. It's enough to learn. 02:46:23.659 --> 02:46:26.559 We're going back to Podunk USA story. It's enough 02:46:26.559 --> 02:46:30.280 to learn to say, hey, that can happen here. I 02:46:30.280 --> 02:46:34.579 speak across the country about Black Sunday and 02:46:34.579 --> 02:46:37.219 the need for personal safety systems. And I don't 02:46:37.219 --> 02:46:39.459 do it for myself. It's not for financial gain 02:46:39.459 --> 02:46:42.149 for myself. All the money that is, you know, 02:46:42.170 --> 02:46:44.770 like my speaking fees, they go to the Lieutenant 02:46:44.770 --> 02:46:47.110 Joseph P .D. Bernardo Memorial Foundation to 02:46:47.110 --> 02:46:49.389 make sure that this doesn't happen again. Going 02:46:49.389 --> 02:46:51.909 back to Yonkers, two firefighters went out the 02:46:51.909 --> 02:46:54.610 window that day. One firefighter, he was a rescue 02:46:54.610 --> 02:46:57.250 one firefighter, Patty Joyce, was killed that 02:46:57.250 --> 02:46:59.870 day. He was impaled on a rod iron fence and he 02:46:59.870 --> 02:47:03.629 bled out. We need to learn from, you know, history 02:47:03.629 --> 02:47:06.989 or history is bound to repeat itself. And we 02:47:06.989 --> 02:47:10.719 don't need that to continue to happen. Well, 02:47:10.719 --> 02:47:13.180 especially with the financial side, because over 02:47:13.180 --> 02:47:15.680 and over again, whether it's operationally like 02:47:15.680 --> 02:47:17.700 that. And I even after I left the department 02:47:17.700 --> 02:47:20.500 that had the harnesses woven into the next one, 02:47:20.600 --> 02:47:22.559 I still my whole career, I've had a carabiner 02:47:22.559 --> 02:47:25.079 and a. you know, some webbing so that I can at 02:47:25.079 --> 02:47:27.500 least do some sort of hasty bailout. And then 02:47:27.500 --> 02:47:29.719 Anaheim, California, she did some great training, 02:47:29.739 --> 02:47:31.559 even just going under the armpits and holding, 02:47:31.659 --> 02:47:33.540 you know, I mean that you tear up your bunker 02:47:33.540 --> 02:47:36.420 jacket, but you'll survive. Well, it works great 02:47:36.420 --> 02:47:38.840 in a training atmosphere. Everybody needs a P. 02:47:39.079 --> 02:47:42.059 James, just to disagree with you for a minute, 02:47:42.079 --> 02:47:43.799 because I've done all that, you know, it's like 02:47:43.799 --> 02:47:46.639 the hasty harness when time is of the essence. 02:47:46.700 --> 02:47:49.260 Again, you can't tie your shoelaces. It's an 02:47:49.260 --> 02:47:51.639 option. But you can't tie your shoelaces under 02:47:51.639 --> 02:47:55.319 stress, you know. And we owe it to our firefighters. 02:47:55.459 --> 02:47:57.459 We're not sending our firefighters in without 02:47:57.459 --> 02:48:00.760 an SCBA and, you know, turnout coat, turnout 02:48:00.760 --> 02:48:03.760 pants, gloves. You know, we want the best, but 02:48:03.760 --> 02:48:06.059 yet we're failing. We're failing in the fire 02:48:06.059 --> 02:48:08.459 service. And it's up to the leaders. It's up 02:48:08.459 --> 02:48:10.659 to the mayors. I've heard more than one fire 02:48:10.659 --> 02:48:13.579 commissioner, chief of department, or mayor stand 02:48:13.579 --> 02:48:15.879 there, and he or she was a great firefighter, 02:48:15.879 --> 02:48:19.040 you know. Well, what did you do for that firefighter? 02:48:19.159 --> 02:48:21.780 What did you do to prevent that from happening? 02:48:21.940 --> 02:48:25.299 And we owe it to them. It's like, enough's enough, 02:48:25.540 --> 02:48:28.579 man. You want to talk the talk, let's walk the 02:48:28.579 --> 02:48:34.020 walk. I know I've talked for a long time, but 02:48:34.020 --> 02:48:40.559 I appreciate you listening to me. The point I 02:48:40.559 --> 02:48:43.680 was making is I believe in the... bail out rope 02:48:43.680 --> 02:48:45.979 so much that even when they didn't actually provide 02:48:45.979 --> 02:48:48.520 it i still carried a version of it myself i appreciate 02:48:48.520 --> 02:48:51.319 i appreciate i appreciate that but i i want our 02:48:51.319 --> 02:48:53.799 listeners to understand that because you know 02:48:53.799 --> 02:48:56.139 i've had that argument you know i gotta you know 02:48:56.139 --> 02:48:58.479 i can make a hasty harness or a swiss seed or 02:48:58.479 --> 02:49:01.100 you know i can do a belay you know i did a body 02:49:01.100 --> 02:49:03.899 belay guess what i did it a hundred and some 02:49:03.899 --> 02:49:06.760 odd times in training real life it didn't work 02:49:06.760 --> 02:49:10.370 out that way you know so um Because, you know, 02:49:10.370 --> 02:49:12.469 you get in that, you know, tunnel vision, you 02:49:12.469 --> 02:49:16.549 know, fight or flight, you know, it sucks, you 02:49:16.549 --> 02:49:19.170 know. But, yeah, I wanted to talk, you know, 02:49:19.190 --> 02:49:22.909 go back to legacy real quick before we end because 02:49:22.909 --> 02:49:25.450 I know we're probably well beyond it, you know. 02:49:26.770 --> 02:49:32.229 So, you know, I talked about individuals stepping 02:49:32.229 --> 02:49:36.290 up, you know, sons and daughters of my fallen 02:49:36.290 --> 02:49:40.219 brothers, you know, from FDNY. I want to give 02:49:40.219 --> 02:49:47.479 a kudos to Curtis Myron, Lieutenant Curtis Myron's 02:49:47.479 --> 02:49:50.139 son, Dennis. He graduated. He's been out in the 02:49:50.139 --> 02:49:55.219 field almost a year now. He's in 331, engine 02:49:55.219 --> 02:50:04.399 331. Just awesome, awesome stuff. You know, my 02:50:04.399 --> 02:50:06.760 family, you know, they've been through a lot, 02:50:06.840 --> 02:50:09.520 but, you know. Dad's never coming home for the 02:50:09.520 --> 02:50:12.920 Myron family. And he left a son and two daughters. 02:50:13.260 --> 02:50:17.540 And it's just great to see the next generation 02:50:17.540 --> 02:50:23.600 to fill the ranks of FDNY. And why it's not a 02:50:23.600 --> 02:50:30.260 legacy, my son Jeffrey, he followed in the ranks 02:50:30.260 --> 02:50:35.059 too. He works in my first firehouse. He's an 02:50:35.059 --> 02:50:42.000 engine 50, just came off probation. And he's 02:50:42.000 --> 02:50:45.979 in the academy and he is asking different questions. 02:50:45.979 --> 02:50:50.520 And both my boys, Jeff and Dylan, they know the 02:50:50.520 --> 02:50:54.040 sacrifice of Joey, Joey DiBernardo, Uncle Joey. 02:50:54.239 --> 02:50:56.420 And that's what they refer to as Uncle Joey. 02:50:59.479 --> 02:51:03.790 You know, dad is here. Because Uncle Joey placed 02:51:03.790 --> 02:51:06.950 their dad's life in front of his own that day, 02:51:07.090 --> 02:51:12.229 you know. And Jeff asked, you know, when a firefighter 02:51:12.229 --> 02:51:15.030 dies on the line of duty for FDNY, the badge 02:51:15.030 --> 02:51:19.549 is retired. And Jeff asked, what's the chances 02:51:19.549 --> 02:51:23.069 you think I'll get Joey's badge? I said, well, 02:51:23.090 --> 02:51:25.590 you got to ask Chief DiBernardo and Mrs. DiBernardo 02:51:25.590 --> 02:51:30.709 for his badge. And they obliged. He probably 02:51:30.709 --> 02:51:35.569 wears his badge number. That's amazing. Absolutely 02:51:35.569 --> 02:51:38.290 amazing. Going back to what you were talking 02:51:38.290 --> 02:51:40.209 about with the money, I'm going to hit this and 02:51:40.209 --> 02:51:41.549 then we'll go to closing questions because I 02:51:41.549 --> 02:51:45.030 think we're talking almost three hours now. Even 02:51:45.030 --> 02:51:47.930 if you don't care about human life, and I'm saying 02:51:47.930 --> 02:51:50.510 this because the number of fire departments that 02:51:50.510 --> 02:51:54.639 refuse to change. even though like locally here, 02:51:54.780 --> 02:51:57.500 the county I live in have lost numerous young 02:51:57.500 --> 02:52:01.239 firefighters, numerous to suicide alone. Even 02:52:01.239 --> 02:52:03.600 if you clearly don't care about human life, if 02:52:03.600 --> 02:52:08.340 you look at the money, the budget, it still makes 02:52:08.340 --> 02:52:11.940 sense proactively investing in safety equipment, 02:52:12.100 --> 02:52:15.360 like you said, 800 ,000 for the ropes and millions 02:52:15.360 --> 02:52:21.500 for the incident. the lawsuits and all the things. 02:52:21.799 --> 02:52:25.379 And if you look at, for example, the work week, 02:52:25.540 --> 02:52:27.780 I get all these people saying, oh, we can't afford 02:52:27.780 --> 02:52:31.329 it. But if you look at the overtime. The money 02:52:31.329 --> 02:52:33.409 that's spent on lack of retention from training 02:52:33.409 --> 02:52:35.209 and equipping and paying at the pensions and 02:52:35.209 --> 02:52:37.610 then they leave for a better department. You 02:52:37.610 --> 02:52:39.430 look at workman's comp claims because everyone's 02:52:39.430 --> 02:52:41.030 just beaten into the ground and they're getting 02:52:41.030 --> 02:52:43.030 hurt and they're having mental health issues, 02:52:43.250 --> 02:52:46.110 line of duty, deaths, God forbid, medical disability 02:52:46.110 --> 02:52:49.290 payments, lawsuits when we make mistakes. There's 02:52:49.290 --> 02:52:52.010 millions and millions and millions and I don't 02:52:52.010 --> 02:52:54.610 understand because I never went to any sort of 02:52:54.610 --> 02:52:57.309 business school how these financial gurus don't 02:52:57.309 --> 02:52:59.450 just look and go, well, why wouldn't we? invest 02:52:59.450 --> 02:53:02.629 in ropes? What happens if one firefighter dies? 02:53:02.809 --> 02:53:05.510 What is going to be the payout for that? Or as 02:53:05.510 --> 02:53:08.790 we had locally, the poor decision made to drive 02:53:08.790 --> 02:53:10.850 through a train track and get hit by the Brightline 02:53:10.850 --> 02:53:13.790 train. I don't think that was someone thinking 02:53:13.790 --> 02:53:15.870 clearly. I guarantee you that sleep deprivation 02:53:15.870 --> 02:53:18.290 was probably part of that poor decision. And 02:53:18.290 --> 02:53:21.129 that is millions, millions now to replace that 02:53:21.129 --> 02:53:24.649 truck and repair the train. And again, all the 02:53:24.649 --> 02:53:27.680 lawsuits attached to that. So I don't understand 02:53:27.680 --> 02:53:30.780 why, again, even if the deaths alone, the well 02:53:30.780 --> 02:53:33.020 -being of your people doesn't keep you up at 02:53:33.020 --> 02:53:35.739 night. And that I think is, you know, if it doesn't, 02:53:35.739 --> 02:53:37.399 then maybe you're not in the right position in 02:53:37.399 --> 02:53:41.760 the first place. But it's the false economy of 02:53:41.760 --> 02:53:44.959 a we'll just cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. Major incident 02:53:44.959 --> 02:53:47.120 happens and now you're paying out five times 02:53:47.120 --> 02:53:49.600 what it would to just invest in the first place. 02:53:50.040 --> 02:53:51.719 Well, that's what they did. They rolled the dice. 02:53:51.899 --> 02:53:54.940 The city of New York did it. They killed my brothers. 02:53:55.399 --> 02:53:59.159 They murdered my brothers. And the blood is on 02:53:59.159 --> 02:54:02.120 their hands. The only good thing about that is 02:54:02.120 --> 02:54:05.340 that every firefighter for the city of New York, 02:54:05.440 --> 02:54:08.100 they have personal safety systems now. There's 02:54:08.100 --> 02:54:10.760 case law. And they'll always have them because 02:54:10.760 --> 02:54:17.139 of the sacrifices of January 23, 2005. Absolutely. 02:54:18.220 --> 02:54:20.299 Well, I want to throw a few closing questions 02:54:20.299 --> 02:54:23.639 at you quickly before I let you go. The first 02:54:23.639 --> 02:54:26.239 one, is there a book or are there books that 02:54:26.239 --> 02:54:28.579 you love to recommend? It can be related to our 02:54:28.579 --> 02:54:33.239 discussion today or completely unrelated. So, 02:54:33.579 --> 02:54:36.860 no, I'm going to be like Angela. I don't read 02:54:36.860 --> 02:54:38.440 books. I've never read a book. No, I'm kidding. 02:54:41.420 --> 02:54:45.020 So there's a lot I look over. You know, I know 02:54:45.020 --> 02:54:49.809 I discussed. um, surviving survival, um, and 02:54:49.809 --> 02:54:52.389 deep survival, both by Lawrence Gonzalez, excellent 02:54:52.389 --> 02:54:57.389 books. You know, um, I like to read like, uh, 02:54:57.569 --> 02:54:59.930 you know, lone survivor was a great book to me 02:54:59.930 --> 02:55:04.469 that happened to same the same year. Um, uh, 02:55:04.530 --> 02:55:08.010 2005 was a bad year, Marcus Littrell. And, and, 02:55:08.129 --> 02:55:10.850 you know, I mean, he is the lone survivor and, 02:55:10.950 --> 02:55:13.530 uh, I've met him before and, uh, I've done on 02:55:13.530 --> 02:55:16.739 his podcast and, uh, it's just a great book it's 02:55:16.739 --> 02:55:18.959 an inspiring book you know it's it's anything 02:55:18.959 --> 02:55:22.180 with overcoming adversity you know but surviving 02:55:22.180 --> 02:55:25.260 survival and deep survival you know or you know 02:55:25.260 --> 02:55:27.200 they're great books to read they're deep but 02:55:27.200 --> 02:55:29.659 they're great books absolutely yeah lawrence 02:55:29.659 --> 02:55:32.680 was on the show amazing conversation all right 02:55:32.680 --> 02:55:35.299 what about film television documentaries any 02:55:35.299 --> 02:55:39.540 of those that you love well i told you i hate 02:55:39.540 --> 02:55:43.870 hollywood there's so much out there but um You 02:55:43.870 --> 02:55:49.750 know, I'll tell you, I know a lot about the Kyle 02:55:49.750 --> 02:55:56.010 family and Chris Kyle. You know, American Sniper, 02:55:56.090 --> 02:55:59.889 that movie really, it really touched something 02:55:59.889 --> 02:56:04.090 in my heart. And there's a lot of similarities 02:56:04.090 --> 02:56:08.870 there, you know. That was a great movie. You 02:56:08.870 --> 02:56:12.079 were waiting for me to say, like... like backdraft 02:56:12.079 --> 02:56:16.059 or chicago uh or not what's the ladder 49 or 02:56:16.059 --> 02:56:18.520 something like that at rest no i didn't get that 02:56:18.520 --> 02:56:21.959 you know no i'm a i like i like military type 02:56:21.959 --> 02:56:24.639 movies you know it's like you know they inspire 02:56:24.639 --> 02:56:27.659 me you know it's like the real heroes you know 02:56:27.659 --> 02:56:33.579 it's did you ever watch backdraft 2 never no 02:56:33.579 --> 02:56:36.379 i'm glad i got there ahead of time so i can save 02:56:36.379 --> 02:56:40.219 you an hour and a half of your life I mean, when 02:56:40.219 --> 02:56:42.420 I make it my show, that's one of my inspirations. 02:56:42.459 --> 02:56:45.540 If that could get funding and the script could 02:56:45.540 --> 02:56:47.459 be written by a four -year -old child that had 02:56:47.459 --> 02:56:50.239 never been in the fire service, then I can get 02:56:50.239 --> 02:56:53.440 mine put on the screen. It was absolutely awful. 02:56:54.180 --> 02:56:56.719 Our whole story, there was a script that was 02:56:56.719 --> 02:56:59.600 written and it was presented to Hollywood and 02:56:59.600 --> 02:57:02.920 all these studios, they wanted to change stuff. 02:57:03.319 --> 02:57:06.579 And thank God we had a life rights attorney. 02:57:08.219 --> 02:57:10.440 through my friend i believe he was on your show 02:57:10.440 --> 02:57:13.120 also is bobby burke was bobby was on your show 02:57:13.120 --> 02:57:15.819 robert yes yeah yeah actually he's gonna be part 02:57:15.819 --> 02:57:19.500 of my show he's he's uh yeah so he's an amazing 02:57:19.500 --> 02:57:21.799 guy and you know he told us how to protect ourselves 02:57:21.799 --> 02:57:24.719 and they wanted to i don't make me a girl or 02:57:24.719 --> 02:57:27.319 joey a girl and change our ethnicity and this 02:57:27.319 --> 02:57:30.040 and that it's like like what are we doing this 02:57:30.040 --> 02:57:33.700 is a real story this is the real this is not 02:57:33.700 --> 02:57:38.659 you know some you know like I mean, we watch, 02:57:38.659 --> 02:57:41.040 you know, Jeff and I, you know, because my wife 02:57:41.040 --> 02:57:43.639 likes to watch different stories and she's watching 02:57:43.639 --> 02:57:48.200 9 -1 -1 or Chicago Fire or whatever. And Jeff 02:57:48.200 --> 02:57:51.780 and I were just like, oh, this is bullshit. It's 02:57:51.780 --> 02:57:55.079 like, this is the real deal. You know, it's like, 02:57:55.139 --> 02:58:02.479 you know, the only real documentary that, I mean, 02:58:02.479 --> 02:58:04.100 it was two of them that I would say that really 02:58:04.100 --> 02:58:07.069 captured the job was Brothers in Battle. um about 02:58:07.069 --> 02:58:11.569 fdny that was phenomenal you know um and so many 02:58:11.569 --> 02:58:13.629 of those guys that i know that were in that you 02:58:13.629 --> 02:58:17.510 know that i worked with and then um um the one 02:58:17.510 --> 02:58:21.049 on detroit uh what was it burn burn yeah that 02:58:21.049 --> 02:58:23.469 was pretty inspirational too that was probably 02:58:23.469 --> 02:58:28.590 well done to see not providing again not providing 02:58:28.590 --> 02:58:32.809 what they need you know it's like well no Yeah, 02:58:32.850 --> 02:58:35.430 same story. It's all over the world. Like I talked 02:58:35.430 --> 02:58:37.590 to Australian firefighters and British firefighters, 02:58:37.750 --> 02:58:39.790 and, you know, they're all dealing with the same 02:58:39.790 --> 02:58:42.829 thing. Yeah. Well, speaking of amazing people, 02:58:42.930 --> 02:58:44.790 is there a person that you recommend to come 02:58:44.790 --> 02:58:47.709 on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first 02:58:47.709 --> 02:58:49.889 responders, military and associated professions 02:58:49.889 --> 02:58:53.989 of the world? Well, you've had Chief Pippin Otto 02:58:53.989 --> 02:58:57.729 on here already. So, I mean, he was, he's definitely, 02:58:57.909 --> 02:59:04.739 I don't know. I run in a circle of a lot of great 02:59:04.739 --> 02:59:07.440 people. One doesn't pop to mind right now. But 02:59:07.440 --> 02:59:09.979 if I do, James, I will definitely send it your 02:59:09.979 --> 02:59:13.840 way. Absolutely. I think we talked before when 02:59:13.840 --> 02:59:15.760 we were speaking maybe about Gene. Have I got 02:59:15.760 --> 02:59:18.680 that right? Oh, Gene Solowski. I mean, he is 02:59:18.680 --> 02:59:20.520 an amazing individual. I don't know if he'll 02:59:20.520 --> 02:59:25.079 do it right now. Absolutely amazing. Right now, 02:59:25.079 --> 02:59:27.020 he's still employed by the city of New York. 02:59:31.530 --> 02:59:34.049 I know he'll defer right now, but when he retires, 02:59:34.229 --> 02:59:37.450 I'm sure you could get him. There's some things 02:59:37.450 --> 02:59:40.229 that he can't say right now. Perfect. All right. 02:59:40.290 --> 02:59:43.350 There's no rush. This will be here when he gets 02:59:43.350 --> 02:59:45.629 out. Yeah, Brendan's another great guy too. Brendan 02:59:45.629 --> 02:59:47.370 Crawley. I mean, he was the probie that day. 02:59:47.530 --> 02:59:50.709 You know, I mean, they both, we all have different 02:59:50.709 --> 02:59:53.770 stories. I wish, you know what I wish? I wish 02:59:53.770 --> 02:59:56.889 I was still, I wish there was nobody, you know, 02:59:56.930 --> 02:59:59.010 the guys that I was in a circle with that I ran 02:59:59.010 --> 03:00:02.450 in with an FDNY knew me. And that was it. But 03:00:02.450 --> 03:00:05.430 that's not the case anymore. You know, a lot 03:00:05.430 --> 03:00:07.110 of people know our story. They might not know 03:00:07.110 --> 03:00:09.590 our name, but they know our story. And, you know, 03:00:09.629 --> 03:00:12.370 I'm sure we all feel the same. We wish we were 03:00:12.370 --> 03:00:16.149 still doing it. My biggest regret in life, and 03:00:16.149 --> 03:00:18.770 I have no control over it, is that I didn't get 03:00:18.770 --> 03:00:20.670 the opportunity to crawl down a hallway with 03:00:20.670 --> 03:00:24.329 my son. Yeah, I can imagine how powerful that 03:00:24.329 --> 03:00:28.020 would have been. All right. Well, the very last 03:00:28.020 --> 03:00:29.899 question before we make sure everyone knows where 03:00:29.899 --> 03:00:33.139 to find the foundation and then you online, what 03:00:33.139 --> 03:00:37.819 do you do to decompress? What do I do to decompress? 03:00:37.819 --> 03:00:40.959 Well, I take a nice walk every day with my dogs 03:00:40.959 --> 03:00:45.100 and my wife. I walk like a two mile walk, play 03:00:45.100 --> 03:00:47.739 golf a couple of times a week. I play with the 03:00:47.739 --> 03:00:49.899 farming group and then I play with a bunch of 03:00:49.899 --> 03:00:52.459 other, a bunch of guys. It's called the mouth 03:00:52.459 --> 03:00:58.549 contents, you know? That's, that's me. And then, 03:00:58.629 --> 03:01:00.930 you know, just watching TV, you know, I like 03:01:00.930 --> 03:01:03.389 a lot, I watch a lot of stuff on Paramount. I 03:01:03.389 --> 03:01:07.309 like a lot of Tyler Sheridan's stuff, you know, 03:01:07.309 --> 03:01:10.750 so I watch a lot of that. That's my decompression. 03:01:10.790 --> 03:01:13.969 That's my, my idiot. And I do, well, I can't 03:01:13.969 --> 03:01:16.069 even say I decompressed this year with my New 03:01:16.069 --> 03:01:18.149 York Rangers. I'm a diehard, you know, New York 03:01:18.149 --> 03:01:20.610 Ranger fan, but my Rangers suck this year. There's 03:01:20.610 --> 03:01:24.639 no heart. No. So that adds stress to my life. 03:01:24.940 --> 03:01:26.579 Yeah, I was going to say, that's the wrong way. 03:01:26.700 --> 03:01:29.639 Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. So for people listening 03:01:29.639 --> 03:01:32.459 then, where first can they find the Lieutenant 03:01:32.459 --> 03:01:36.120 Joseph P .D. Bernardo Memorial Foundation? So 03:01:36.120 --> 03:01:41.059 you can go to joeydfoundation .org and run there 03:01:41.059 --> 03:01:46.680 or just search joeyd .org. We're on Facebook. 03:01:46.680 --> 03:01:52.020 We're on Instagram. Yeah, there's a lot of social 03:01:52.020 --> 03:01:54.639 media stuff out there. And again, a training 03:01:54.639 --> 03:01:56.639 seminar is coming up in Woodlands, Texas, right 03:01:56.639 --> 03:01:59.420 outside of Houston, February 20th through the 03:01:59.420 --> 03:02:07.680 22nd of 2026. While we're on Joey, if everybody 03:02:07.680 --> 03:02:13.319 can just take a moment, say a little prayer for 03:02:13.319 --> 03:02:17.819 his family, Saturday the 22nd is 14 years ago 03:02:17.819 --> 03:02:24.170 that we lost Joey. Joey was an encyclopedia of 03:02:24.170 --> 03:02:27.909 knowledge, not only with FDNY and technical rush. 03:02:28.010 --> 03:02:30.790 And there was no doubt about it. He was going 03:02:30.790 --> 03:02:34.569 to be a leader in FDNY. He got promoted to lieutenant 03:02:34.569 --> 03:02:36.989 after he got injured. He was on the lieutenant's 03:02:36.989 --> 03:02:39.110 list, but he just never got to really act in 03:02:39.110 --> 03:02:43.829 a rank. And he was, again, an encyclopedia of 03:02:43.829 --> 03:02:46.790 knowledge and just loved the job. And, you know, 03:02:46.809 --> 03:02:50.719 a lot of people, you know. like to say hey you 03:02:50.719 --> 03:02:53.340 know i'm on a job well one of joey's quotes is 03:02:53.340 --> 03:02:57.879 like are you on a job or into the job be into 03:02:57.879 --> 03:02:59.879 the job you know i mean that's what it's about 03:02:59.879 --> 03:03:01.899 you know learning a job every day you come to 03:03:01.899 --> 03:03:04.360 work you know hone your skills on something you 03:03:04.360 --> 03:03:06.440 already know or learn something new from the 03:03:06.440 --> 03:03:08.399 chief of department all the way down to the probie 03:03:08.399 --> 03:03:10.979 and if you're not doing that it's time to go 03:03:10.979 --> 03:03:13.239 if you're not looking you know to to leave the 03:03:13.239 --> 03:03:16.000 job better than the way you found it it's time 03:03:16.000 --> 03:03:20.069 to go absolutely What about if people want to 03:03:20.069 --> 03:03:21.690 reach out to you? Where are the best places on 03:03:21.690 --> 03:03:26.969 social media? I'm on Facebook. That's where you'll 03:03:26.969 --> 03:03:31.370 find me on Facebook. I think I'm just Jeff Cool 03:03:31.370 --> 03:03:35.030 on there. Everybody finds my son on there. I'm 03:03:35.030 --> 03:03:40.489 on there. You'll see him. You can find me on 03:03:40.489 --> 03:03:42.610 there. And one other thing I do, I said through 03:03:42.610 --> 03:03:46.729 tragedy must come triumph. And we talked about 03:03:46.729 --> 03:03:49.209 9 -11 and never forget, they're not just words. 03:03:49.610 --> 03:03:52.229 So there's a golf outing that's been around for 03:03:52.229 --> 03:03:54.670 years and years and years. And it actually started 03:03:54.670 --> 03:03:57.930 out as the Al Robinson golf outing. Al Robinson 03:03:57.930 --> 03:04:00.170 was a member of Rescue 3. He was killed in the 03:04:00.170 --> 03:04:05.969 line of duty. I believe it was 1992. And a golf 03:04:05.969 --> 03:04:08.700 outing was started after. After that, it was 03:04:08.700 --> 03:04:11.920 the Al Ronaldson golf outing, and it was a huge, 03:04:11.979 --> 03:04:16.379 huge golf outing, multiple courses. 9 -11 happened, 03:04:16.579 --> 03:04:19.260 and it became 9 -11, never forget golf outing. 03:04:19.360 --> 03:04:24.659 It was huge. It started dying off a couple of 03:04:24.659 --> 03:04:29.219 years ago, and one of the guys that ran it said, 03:04:29.319 --> 03:04:31.100 I think this is going to be the last year for 03:04:31.100 --> 03:04:32.959 it. It's here in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. 03:04:34.879 --> 03:04:38.760 I said to Nikki, I said, hey, Nikki, I said, 03:04:38.879 --> 03:04:41.620 never forget or not just words. Let me take it 03:04:41.620 --> 03:04:44.520 over. So myself, Billy Owens, retired out of 03:04:44.520 --> 03:04:49.000 Rescue 1, and Jimmy Walsh, who was a captain 03:04:49.000 --> 03:04:51.440 of the 17 truck, we took it over. We've since 03:04:51.440 --> 03:04:54.139 added Johnny Walters from Rescue 1 and Joe Peter 03:04:54.139 --> 03:04:57.379 from Ladder 42. We're the committee, and we took 03:04:57.379 --> 03:04:59.780 it over. The first year, two years ago, we were 03:04:59.780 --> 03:05:03.760 on two courses. The 2025, we're on three courses. 03:05:04.280 --> 03:05:05.920 Next year, we're going to be on four courses 03:05:05.920 --> 03:05:11.020 for 2026. All the profit from that goes out to 03:05:11.020 --> 03:05:14.280 FDNY foundations. And then we also do boots on 03:05:14.280 --> 03:05:16.399 the ground here in South Carolina. The first 03:05:16.399 --> 03:05:19.159 year we did it with Lowcountry Firefighter Support 03:05:19.159 --> 03:05:22.520 Team, which is counseling services for all of 03:05:22.520 --> 03:05:25.180 South Carolina firefighters. And then this year 03:05:25.180 --> 03:05:27.799 we did PGA Hope, which is adaptive golf for our 03:05:27.799 --> 03:05:31.540 veterans here in Horry County. We have 30 ,000, 03:05:31.540 --> 03:05:34.639 30 or 40 ,000 veterans here in Horry County. 03:05:34.840 --> 03:05:37.500 So it's adaptive golf for them. So, you know, 03:05:37.500 --> 03:05:40.159 never forget. It's not just, it's not just words. 03:05:40.239 --> 03:05:43.739 And so you could, you could check out that at 03:05:43.739 --> 03:05:49.399 FDNY911golf .org. And that golf hunting is May 03:05:49.399 --> 03:05:52.620 17th through 19th of 2026. Registration will 03:05:52.620 --> 03:05:56.600 be opening next week for that. That's what keeps 03:05:56.600 --> 03:05:58.879 me busy in the fire service. It still keeps me, 03:05:58.940 --> 03:06:01.219 you know, vicariously. I live the job through 03:06:01.219 --> 03:06:04.180 my son. I get to watch him. You know, he just 03:06:04.180 --> 03:06:07.760 made the FDNY hockey team, and he's actually 03:06:07.760 --> 03:06:09.920 going to California this weekend to play in a 03:06:09.920 --> 03:06:13.040 tournament out there with the team. And God willing, 03:06:13.120 --> 03:06:16.579 he'll dress for the big game against NYPD, you 03:06:16.579 --> 03:06:19.190 know. That's always a fun one because, you know, 03:06:19.250 --> 03:06:22.049 get to punch a cop in the face. That being said, 03:06:22.229 --> 03:06:25.610 I married into an NYPD family. My father -in 03:06:25.610 --> 03:06:27.770 -law was a lieutenant. My one brother -in -law 03:06:27.770 --> 03:06:30.090 was a sergeant. The other one was a captain, 03:06:30.190 --> 03:06:31.950 you know, and they're all retired now, thank 03:06:31.950 --> 03:06:34.809 God, because it's a crazy world to be a police 03:06:34.809 --> 03:06:37.649 officer. You know, I have a ton of police officer 03:06:37.649 --> 03:06:40.569 friends, you know, and at the end of the day, 03:06:40.610 --> 03:06:44.629 it's one team, one fight, you know. 100%. Well, 03:06:44.729 --> 03:06:46.489 Jeff, I want to thank you so much. It's been 03:06:46.489 --> 03:06:48.209 such an amazing conversation. One of my longest 03:06:48.209 --> 03:06:50.250 ones for a while now, just over three hours. 03:06:50.729 --> 03:06:53.190 But that's because there's just, you know, so 03:06:53.190 --> 03:06:56.469 much to talk about. And, you know, most importantly, 03:06:56.610 --> 03:06:58.629 like you said, honoring the people that we lost 03:06:58.629 --> 03:07:01.790 and then, you know, just being determined to 03:07:01.790 --> 03:07:04.090 change things so that we don't, you know, they 03:07:04.090 --> 03:07:05.909 didn't die in vain. That there was just a repeat 03:07:05.909 --> 03:07:08.750 of the same exact thing. So I want to thank you 03:07:08.750 --> 03:07:10.950 so, so much for being so generous with your time 03:07:10.950 --> 03:07:12.950 and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today. 03:07:13.630 --> 03:07:17.549 Thank you, James. And, and so the lecture I do, 03:07:17.670 --> 03:07:20.110 it's called it can't, it can't happen to me. 03:07:20.770 --> 03:07:24.649 Because that's, that's, that's sarcasm. You know, 03:07:24.649 --> 03:07:28.030 everybody thinks it's not going to be me. You 03:07:28.030 --> 03:07:31.069 can do the next one up, you know, so and, you 03:07:31.069 --> 03:07:33.950 know, again, we're here for one another. So thank 03:07:33.950 --> 03:07:34.270 you.