WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.200 This episode is sponsored by yet another company 00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:05.440 that I truly stand behind, and that is Levels. 00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:08.259 And Levels is going to be offering you, the Behind 00:00:08.259 --> 00:00:10.960 the Shield podcast audience, a discount that 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:13.099 I will tell you about at the end of this introduction. 00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:16.879 Now, before I even dive into what Levels does, 00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:20.620 when I had a conversation with their CEO and 00:00:20.620 --> 00:00:23.920 founder, Josh Clemente, he underlined such an 00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:27.320 important topic. So many of us rely on visits 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:30.460 to our physicians to tell us how we are doing, 00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:34.009 and that is so backward. I am an absolute believer 00:00:34.009 --> 00:00:36.990 in putting autonomy back into the hands of the 00:00:36.990 --> 00:00:39.869 individual so they can take care of their own 00:00:39.869 --> 00:00:42.950 health. Now, what Levels does is it gives us 00:00:42.950 --> 00:00:45.850 the metrics so we can see exactly how everything 00:00:45.850 --> 00:00:49.429 is internally. So they help people improve their 00:00:49.429 --> 00:00:51.689 health through continuous glucose monitoring, 00:00:52.009 --> 00:00:55.509 comprehensive lab tests and metabolic coaching. 00:00:56.170 --> 00:00:58.549 Now through their three levels that they offer, 00:00:58.630 --> 00:01:00.969 they have programs that focus on weight loss, 00:01:01.270 --> 00:01:04.950 heart health, and glucose stability. I've now 00:01:04.950 --> 00:01:07.489 been through this program twice, and I'll kind 00:01:07.489 --> 00:01:10.150 of illustrate what it will look like. So you 00:01:10.150 --> 00:01:12.189 make an initial consultation with your levels 00:01:12.189 --> 00:01:15.870 coach. You wear a continuous blood sugar monitor 00:01:15.870 --> 00:01:20.109 for one month. You'll complete a lab panel, and 00:01:20.109 --> 00:01:23.219 I did it through Quest Diagnostics. A clinician 00:01:23.219 --> 00:01:26.340 with levels will then analyze your results and 00:01:26.340 --> 00:01:29.439 give you an action plan. That's when you can 00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:32.519 then start hitting your own health goals and 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:35.739 in real time track your own progress. And then 00:01:35.739 --> 00:01:38.120 depending on the level you subscribe to, there's 00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:40.879 also a second blood work so you can now see how 00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:44.519 you're doing six months later. Now by combining 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:48.680 AI data, AI powered insights and human coaching 00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:52.849 together, 80 % of Levels members improve their 00:01:52.849 --> 00:01:56.370 biomarkers. Now, as I mentioned, Levels is offering 00:01:56.370 --> 00:01:58.650 you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast, 00:01:59.189 --> 00:02:03.129 $100 off your first order if you use the promo 00:02:03.129 --> 00:02:08.250 code SHIELD at levels .com. And if you're interested 00:02:08.250 --> 00:02:11.229 in getting Levels for your department, email 00:02:11.229 --> 00:02:14.830 Josh Clemente, the founder and CEO of Levels, 00:02:14.830 --> 00:02:20.240 at josh at levels .com. And if you want to hear 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.060 the origin story and so much more about this 00:02:23.060 --> 00:02:26.039 incredible company, listen to my interview with 00:02:26.039 --> 00:02:30.620 CEO and founder Josh Clemente on episode 1159 00:02:30.620 --> 00:02:34.860 of the Behind the Shield podcast. Welcome to 00:02:34.860 --> 00:02:36.479 the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:38.280 name is James Geering, and this week it is my 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:41.400 absolute honor to welcome on the show Army veteran, 00:02:41.699 --> 00:02:45.020 retired law enforcement officer, and CrossFit 00:02:45.020 --> 00:02:48.860 coach Steve Goen. Now, in this conversation, 00:02:48.900 --> 00:02:52.080 we discuss a host of topics from Steve's journey 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:55.159 into the military, his transition into the world 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:59.879 of policing, SWAT, first responder fitness standards, 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:05.680 CrossFit, coaching youth athletes, farming, and 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:08.780 so much more. Now, before we get to this incredible 00:03:08.780 --> 00:03:11.520 conversation, as I say every week, please just 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:14.319 take a moment, go to whichever app you listen 00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:18.189 to this on, subscribe to the show. Leave feedback 00:03:18.189 --> 00:03:21.889 and leave a rating. Every single five -star rating 00:03:21.889 --> 00:03:25.050 truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making 00:03:25.050 --> 00:03:28.889 it easier for others to find. And this is a free 00:03:28.889 --> 00:03:33.870 library of almost 1 ,200 episodes now. So all 00:03:33.870 --> 00:03:37.030 I ask in return is that you help share these 00:03:37.030 --> 00:03:40.090 incredible men and women's stories so I can get 00:03:40.090 --> 00:03:43.310 them to every single person on planet Earth who 00:03:43.310 --> 00:03:46.530 needs to hear them. So with that being said... 00:03:46.879 --> 00:04:10.699 I introduce to you, Steve Goen. Enjoy. Well, 00:04:10.699 --> 00:04:12.759 Steve, I want to start by saying two things. 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:15.199 Firstly, thank you to our mutual friends at The 00:04:15.199 --> 00:04:17.759 Collective for basically making this introduction 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:20.139 when we were on the show together. And secondly, 00:04:20.199 --> 00:04:22.459 I want to thank you for taking the time and coming 00:04:22.459 --> 00:04:25.459 on the Behind the Shield podcast today. Absolutely. 00:04:25.540 --> 00:04:28.699 Thank you. We love our northern brothers. Now, 00:04:28.779 --> 00:04:30.060 we were supposed to do it the other day, but 00:04:30.060 --> 00:04:32.100 you were threatened with storms. Did they end 00:04:32.100 --> 00:04:35.220 up being bad in the end? Yeah. And we had a big 00:04:35.220 --> 00:04:37.480 thunderstorm last night, too. So it's all cleared 00:04:37.480 --> 00:04:39.399 up now, though. So we're good. We should be good. 00:04:39.870 --> 00:04:41.670 Brilliant. Are you getting cooler weather, warmer 00:04:41.670 --> 00:04:44.290 weather? What's on the back end of this? It kind 00:04:44.290 --> 00:04:47.129 of fluctuates now. It goes from 80s to cooler, 00:04:47.329 --> 00:04:50.550 goes back up to 80s. So a day of rain and thunderstorms 00:04:50.550 --> 00:04:53.670 and it jumps back. It's kind of like it doesn't 00:04:53.670 --> 00:04:56.069 really know what it wants to do, but as long 00:04:56.069 --> 00:04:58.110 as it doesn't rain more than one day, I'm happy. 00:04:59.269 --> 00:05:01.310 Yeah, same here in Florida. We got some cooler 00:05:01.310 --> 00:05:04.209 weather coming again after the rain. So very 00:05:04.209 --> 00:05:06.470 first question, where on planet Earth are we 00:05:06.470 --> 00:05:10.660 finding you today? We're in North Texas right 00:05:10.660 --> 00:05:12.639 now. Well, I would love to start at the very 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:14.939 beginning of your timeline. So tell me where 00:05:14.939 --> 00:05:16.879 you were born and tell me a little bit about 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:19.259 your family dynamic, what your parents did, how 00:05:19.259 --> 00:05:24.040 many siblings. So I was born in Salinas, California. 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:28.680 My dad was a Alameda County deputy sheriff. And 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:31.279 then right after I was born, he had gotten a 00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:34.240 divorce and he had me and my brother and he moved 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:36.819 us down to Central Valley of California, Tulare. 00:05:37.490 --> 00:05:41.069 And he became a police officer there. And I was 00:05:41.069 --> 00:05:46.029 raised there in Tulare until I hit 18. And then 00:05:46.029 --> 00:05:49.889 I take that back when I was 12. Well, when I 00:05:49.889 --> 00:05:51.910 was six, my dad remarried my mom, who I consider 00:05:51.910 --> 00:05:54.670 my mom. She is my mom. But it's the only thing 00:05:54.670 --> 00:05:58.310 I've ever known. And she had my sister when I 00:05:58.310 --> 00:06:01.170 was 12 years old. So I got a brother and a sister. 00:06:01.730 --> 00:06:07.379 And after 18, I joined the Army. Went in as a 00:06:07.379 --> 00:06:10.459 12 Bravo combat engineer sapper. Got stationed 00:06:10.459 --> 00:06:13.779 in Hawaii for three years. Moved my way back 00:06:13.779 --> 00:06:16.139 to Fort Ord, California for a couple months and 00:06:16.139 --> 00:06:18.579 then finished up my last three years in Fort 00:06:18.579 --> 00:06:23.519 Lewis, Washington. And we got out up in Washington 00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:27.000 and then I started to, I kind of knew I wanted 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:29.740 to be a cop. You know, my dad, growing up with 00:06:29.740 --> 00:06:31.579 it, my dad, I did ride alongs with my dad and 00:06:31.579 --> 00:06:36.019 stuff. And then I just took some tests and a 00:06:36.019 --> 00:06:38.500 couple of different agencies. And I finally got 00:06:38.500 --> 00:06:41.060 hired by King County Sheriff's Office, which 00:06:41.060 --> 00:06:44.800 is the county around Seattle up in Washington. 00:06:45.579 --> 00:06:50.120 And I did 24 total years there with 19 of them 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:52.120 on SWAT. And I was a team leader on the SWAT 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:55.620 team there. Going all the way back to early life, 00:06:55.779 --> 00:06:58.839 when you reflect back now, what were the pros 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:01.259 and what were the cons of being the son of a 00:07:01.259 --> 00:07:07.199 cop? Number one, pro. as I preach it still today 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:11.699 as confidence. My dad and my mom kind of equaled 00:07:11.699 --> 00:07:14.319 each other and it was perfect for me. My dad 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:18.360 didn't talk very much, but he was very confident 00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:20.480 in his ability and he would, you know, he kind 00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:22.379 of got me into that whole mindset stuff when 00:07:22.379 --> 00:07:26.959 I joined the army. Not to break down mentally 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:29.420 because you can continue on with the body, right? 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:31.240 And things are just a mental game. You got to 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:33.680 fight through the mental game. But he didn't 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:36.360 talk very much. So I grew up rodeoing and riding 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:38.300 horses and stuff. And he would be out there watching 00:07:38.300 --> 00:07:40.540 me when I was breaking horses and stuff. But 00:07:40.540 --> 00:07:44.259 at night, my mom would talk to me. And I got 00:07:44.259 --> 00:07:48.000 way more stuff from my mom that my dad didn't 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:51.620 tell me. And so my ability to communicate now 00:07:51.620 --> 00:07:55.720 came from my mom. But my foundation came from 00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:58.420 my dad. So they kind of equaled each other for 00:07:58.420 --> 00:08:06.980 me. And what about cons, if any? I don't, I mean, 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:11.540 I don't know. You know, everything kind of seems 00:08:11.540 --> 00:08:13.319 to me, it just kind of works out. And unless 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:16.180 it's glaring, I don't really mention it because 00:08:16.180 --> 00:08:18.220 it just doesn't have a big pull on my life. So 00:08:18.220 --> 00:08:20.980 I wouldn't say that my mom or my dad had a huge 00:08:20.980 --> 00:08:24.779 con in raising me where I have to give effort 00:08:24.779 --> 00:08:27.060 to that and say, oh, that pulled me back because 00:08:27.060 --> 00:08:29.180 nothing in my childhood pulled me back. I did 00:08:29.180 --> 00:08:32.289 dumb stuff and I got held accountable. And it's 00:08:32.289 --> 00:08:33.909 not their fault. It's my fault because I did 00:08:33.909 --> 00:08:36.250 it. But the one thing that they always offered, 00:08:36.370 --> 00:08:39.049 my mom did, is explanation. But my dad did too. 00:08:39.269 --> 00:08:41.850 It was just more deliberate and direct communication 00:08:41.850 --> 00:08:45.769 with my dad. But I've said this many times when 00:08:45.769 --> 00:08:47.850 I've talked to colleges, I've talked to high 00:08:47.850 --> 00:08:51.950 schools. I don't look back at my childhood and 00:08:51.950 --> 00:08:54.929 think, oh, this was detrimental to how I am now. 00:08:55.129 --> 00:08:58.629 I mean, I grew up without a mother from zero 00:08:58.629 --> 00:09:02.139 to six. It was just my dad raising us until he 00:09:02.139 --> 00:09:06.379 married my mom. But I don't use that as a thing 00:09:06.379 --> 00:09:09.320 where now, you know, I'm an alcoholic. I don't 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:12.059 drink, you know. So I'm not an alcoholic, I say, 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:13.659 because I don't drink. That's what I'm saying 00:09:13.659 --> 00:09:16.500 is I don't use those benchmarks to say, oh, I 00:09:16.500 --> 00:09:18.580 do this because I didn't have a mom. You see 00:09:18.580 --> 00:09:21.159 what I'm saying? And so I never really played 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:23.259 into the fact that a con pulled me down far enough 00:09:23.259 --> 00:09:25.580 to make me do something in my life. Now, I know 00:09:25.580 --> 00:09:28.139 what's right. I raise a good family. My daughters 00:09:28.139 --> 00:09:31.559 are. strong and confident in kind of how i was 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:35.000 raised it's interesting reflecting back because 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:37.500 i had you know quite a few things when i was 00:09:37.500 --> 00:09:39.120 younger as well i was in a house fire when i 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:41.860 was four almost died like genuinely almost died 00:09:41.860 --> 00:09:44.480 uh parents had a absolutely horrendous divorce 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:48.120 nasty nasty divorce but when i look back and 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:50.960 ask the question well why didn't i struggle like 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:53.419 so many of our brothers and sisters do you know 00:09:53.419 --> 00:09:57.029 i am no better a person but ironically i grew 00:09:57.029 --> 00:09:59.490 up on a farm my dad was an equine veterinarian 00:09:59.490 --> 00:10:02.230 so i grew up around horses i grew up around growing 00:10:02.230 --> 00:10:05.070 our own food nature getting dirty you know shared 00:10:05.070 --> 00:10:07.129 suffering all these things that we know are very 00:10:07.129 --> 00:10:10.730 beneficial and you know i feel like that was 00:10:10.730 --> 00:10:12.710 a big part of it i think that you know when you 00:10:12.710 --> 00:10:15.009 have those challenges because i mean it is a 00:10:15.009 --> 00:10:17.450 thing to a young young mind why wasn't i good 00:10:17.450 --> 00:10:19.429 enough for mom to stay around you know is the 00:10:19.429 --> 00:10:22.169 thing that you hear a lot with dad but I truly 00:10:22.169 --> 00:10:24.190 believe that those become strength if you're 00:10:24.190 --> 00:10:26.769 given the ability to work through it. When you 00:10:26.769 --> 00:10:30.029 reflect back now, did horses, did that upbringing 00:10:30.029 --> 00:10:32.429 help you? I mean, it wouldn't have been obviously 00:10:32.429 --> 00:10:35.110 conscious at the time, but were there healing 00:10:35.110 --> 00:10:37.230 elements woven into your childhood like there 00:10:37.230 --> 00:10:39.409 were with mine that you think helped turn those 00:10:39.409 --> 00:10:41.870 into resilience rather than push them down and 00:10:41.870 --> 00:10:44.110 let them come up later like a lot of our people 00:10:44.110 --> 00:10:48.470 do? Yeah, obviously, because I think if you have 00:10:48.470 --> 00:10:53.200 issues going on in your lifetime, Silence is 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:55.039 when the devil starts to creep in in the dark 00:10:55.039 --> 00:10:57.720 because that's when bad thoughts become intrusive 00:10:57.720 --> 00:10:59.879 in your head and you start thinking stuff and 00:10:59.879 --> 00:11:02.039 you think you're alone. When you're active, the 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:04.740 brain is focused on what activity you're doing 00:11:04.740 --> 00:11:06.940 and you don't find those dark spots. So you do, 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:09.460 I am an advocate of living life through action. 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:12.539 And that's one of our things for our apparel 00:11:12.539 --> 00:11:14.500 brand and what we teach the girls and stuff. 00:11:14.620 --> 00:11:17.500 And so having horses and doing rodeos and riding 00:11:17.500 --> 00:11:21.080 bulls, I was constantly doing stuff. you know? 00:11:21.100 --> 00:11:24.039 And so, I think that just keeps the mind active. 00:11:24.340 --> 00:11:27.639 So, when you go in at the end of the day, you're 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:30.559 tired. So, you eat and you go to bed. We didn't 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:33.039 have cell phones then, right? We had a small 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:34.980 little black and white television in my room 00:11:34.980 --> 00:11:36.799 that you had to get out of bed to turn the channels, 00:11:36.899 --> 00:11:41.480 right? So, you just were, it was, we didn't get 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:45.519 caught up too much into silence because we were 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:48.080 always doing stuff. And if I wasn't doing stuff 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:50.720 on my own, I had buddies. So, I would team rope 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:53.620 every Friday night. And every Wednesday night, 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:55.460 sometimes with my dad, I would go out and we'd 00:11:55.460 --> 00:11:58.720 team pin with horses and cows and stuff. But 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:00.539 we always had horses and I rode every single 00:12:00.539 --> 00:12:03.259 day. I'd get home from high school and I would 00:12:03.259 --> 00:12:05.259 be out there riding our horses, you know, and 00:12:05.259 --> 00:12:06.779 I had other clients that I would break horses 00:12:06.779 --> 00:12:08.659 for or condition with. And I was just staying 00:12:08.659 --> 00:12:12.580 pretty active. Did you play other sports as well? 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:15.860 Or was that your main focus? Yeah, I played baseball 00:12:15.860 --> 00:12:17.899 for probably about eight years from little, little 00:12:17.899 --> 00:12:20.860 tiny grades all the way up into maybe 15 years 00:12:20.860 --> 00:12:23.440 old. And then I played one year of freshman football 00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:28.059 in high school. But I was like, man, I was probably 00:12:28.059 --> 00:12:32.059 like 128 pounds. I was skinny little dude. And 00:12:32.059 --> 00:12:36.500 I liked it, but I just kind of drifted away and 00:12:36.500 --> 00:12:38.500 got into rodeo. And I started focusing more on 00:12:38.500 --> 00:12:41.399 riding horses and team roping. And so I just 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:44.179 kind of. I drifted to that and it wasn't because 00:12:44.179 --> 00:12:46.159 of a team atmosphere or anything like that. It 00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:47.679 was just like, I kind of like what I did and, 00:12:47.700 --> 00:12:50.200 but we lived it too. So we had horses and we 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:51.659 would always go up in the mountains and pack 00:12:51.659 --> 00:12:54.840 for, uh, during deer season, or we'd go up there 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:57.960 and pack on horses and, and camp up there. I've 00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:00.440 been up in the Sierra Nevada is like a bunch 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:02.240 growing up with my dad and his buddies and stuff. 00:13:03.460 --> 00:13:05.279 You mentioned about going to the military when 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:07.220 you were in the high school age, were you already 00:13:07.220 --> 00:13:08.879 dreaming of that? Or was this something else 00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:12.669 in your mind? No, to be honest with you, that's 00:13:12.669 --> 00:13:14.690 where a direct communication came from my dad. 00:13:14.769 --> 00:13:17.210 And it was in our back, my back room. And he 00:13:17.210 --> 00:13:21.370 was next to me on my bed. And I swore I wanted 00:13:21.370 --> 00:13:24.850 to be a PRCA card holding cowboy. I wanted to 00:13:24.850 --> 00:13:29.110 join the pro rodeo circuit. And he told me, he 00:13:29.110 --> 00:13:30.950 goes, it's a rough life. You got to be very, 00:13:31.009 --> 00:13:34.350 very good. And it costs money. And sometimes 00:13:34.350 --> 00:13:38.379 if you lose, you don't get paid. It's just a 00:13:38.379 --> 00:13:39.700 very rough life. And he goes, have you ever thought 00:13:39.700 --> 00:13:43.159 about the military? His brother, my uncle, made 00:13:43.159 --> 00:13:45.659 a career out of the Air Force. And my dad was 00:13:45.659 --> 00:13:48.480 kind of pushing the Air Force on me. And I just, 00:13:48.539 --> 00:13:49.879 I didn't want anything to do with the military. 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:52.480 And I was talking to one of my buddies that went 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:57.179 into the Marine Corps. And my dad was in that, 00:13:57.220 --> 00:13:58.480 we were in the kitchen one day and he was talking 00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:00.659 to me. And he said, well, have you thought about 00:14:00.659 --> 00:14:01.740 it? I was like, well, the Marine Corps is like, 00:14:01.779 --> 00:14:04.320 no, you don't want to be a grunt. Don't be a 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:06.700 grunt. So he's thinking more technical, right? 00:14:07.379 --> 00:14:12.440 and have skills and stuff. And so, man, it came 00:14:12.440 --> 00:14:15.200 across where I, it literally was, I think I was 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:18.600 dating or seeing a gal that was in the army reserve. 00:14:19.419 --> 00:14:21.379 And it was a very short stint that I knew this 00:14:21.379 --> 00:14:24.340 gal, but somehow she linked me up with an army 00:14:24.340 --> 00:14:27.279 recruiter. And then I just listened. And then 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:30.019 I just took the test. And they sat me down and 00:14:30.019 --> 00:14:31.539 said, okay, this is what you qualified for. And 00:14:31.539 --> 00:14:33.120 they showed me all these videos. And I saw a 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:35.899 guy run up to a tree with a bunch of C4 and he 00:14:35.899 --> 00:14:37.899 blew the tree up and they did some Bangalore 00:14:37.899 --> 00:14:39.360 torpedoes. I'm like, man, I want to do that. 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:42.779 I didn't know anything besides that. And then 00:14:42.779 --> 00:14:45.659 I just, you know, I can't, I don't even know 00:14:45.659 --> 00:14:48.360 how I said it to my mom and dad, but I just told 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:51.340 him I was joining the army. And to this day, 00:14:51.340 --> 00:14:53.879 best thing I ever did to get out of a small town, 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:56.620 best thing I ever did. And my dad was right. 00:14:56.779 --> 00:14:58.200 And at the time I didn't want to believe him. 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:00.919 He was telling me, you got to get out of a small 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:03.419 town. You got to go see the world. You got to 00:15:03.419 --> 00:15:06.220 experience it, but you can't sit here. You cannot 00:15:06.220 --> 00:15:10.000 stay here. And boy, was he right. But at 17, 00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:13.139 18, you don't want to listen to that. No, absolutely 00:15:13.139 --> 00:15:16.259 not. You mentioned where you were stationed. 00:15:16.419 --> 00:15:19.620 I know this was pre 9 -11. So what were the experiences 00:15:19.620 --> 00:15:23.580 over those few years? While I was stationed overseas 00:15:23.580 --> 00:15:26.200 or in Hawaii and stuff? Yeah, and domestically 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:30.940 as well. You know, peacetime and the desert storm 00:15:30.940 --> 00:15:33.980 broke out when I was in Hawaii. And so in 91, 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:36.120 and they recalled us for an emergency information 00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:39.960 and they didn't, they didn't say anything other 00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:42.139 than they asked for volunteers. So we all volunteered 00:15:42.139 --> 00:15:44.919 and then found out that they only took one chief 00:15:44.919 --> 00:15:48.159 warrant officer from our battalion and they left 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:51.220 us alone in Hawaii because we protected the Philippines. 00:15:51.460 --> 00:15:54.639 So no one, none of us got deployed. And then 00:15:56.750 --> 00:16:01.690 I went to a couple of schools and then Fort Ord, 00:16:02.269 --> 00:16:05.350 California was pretty short. My grandfather was 00:16:05.350 --> 00:16:07.490 in World War II and that's where he went to basic 00:16:07.490 --> 00:16:09.990 at Fort Ord, which is next to Salinas where I 00:16:09.990 --> 00:16:12.710 was born. So it was kind of cool. I was only 00:16:12.710 --> 00:16:14.509 there for a very short time. They merged a couple 00:16:14.509 --> 00:16:17.149 of engineer battalions together and then off 00:16:17.149 --> 00:16:21.110 we went up to Washington State, Fort Lewis. Did 00:16:21.110 --> 00:16:23.090 you ever get to talk to your granddad about that? 00:16:26.700 --> 00:16:28.580 about his service in general. The reason I ask, 00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:33.759 so often when you hear the stories of the homecoming 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:37.220 of World War II, we kind of project this greatest 00:16:37.220 --> 00:16:42.139 generation in the world onto them. And absolutely, 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:45.240 as far as heroism and sacrifice and service, 00:16:45.340 --> 00:16:47.899 no one will question that. But there's almost 00:16:47.899 --> 00:16:50.509 this... assumption as well this oh they came 00:16:50.509 --> 00:16:52.230 back and just rolled up their sleeves and everyone 00:16:52.230 --> 00:16:54.950 was fine but you talk to a lot of these people 00:16:54.950 --> 00:16:56.649 i've had a few world war ii vets that i've actually 00:16:56.649 --> 00:16:58.470 interviewed and then a lot of people obviously 00:16:58.470 --> 00:17:01.070 that's in their family and you realize that no 00:17:01.070 --> 00:17:03.610 that like so many of us you know they struggled 00:17:03.610 --> 00:17:05.930 immensely too you know over the whole generation 00:17:05.930 --> 00:17:07.710 and there were some that just like we were talking 00:17:07.710 --> 00:17:10.589 about that managed to still be okay when they 00:17:10.589 --> 00:17:12.150 transition and there were a lot of them that 00:17:12.150 --> 00:17:15.849 didn't yeah they uh i know my grandmother worked 00:17:15.849 --> 00:17:18.900 in a jeep factory during world war ii And my 00:17:18.900 --> 00:17:21.400 grandfather never really spoke about the war 00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:25.720 or anything. And he went in as a cook. And it 00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:28.339 wasn't until he was not doing too well, my grandmother 00:17:28.339 --> 00:17:30.920 had already passed, that he started opening up 00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:34.579 to my dad. And he talked about killing an officer, 00:17:34.900 --> 00:17:37.920 a German officer. And he took his sword from 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:40.140 him because they were able to bring back some 00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:43.259 memorabilia back then. And so my dad sent me 00:17:43.259 --> 00:17:47.069 his. DD -214 and I looked it over and my grandfather 00:17:47.069 --> 00:17:51.109 got two bronze stars. And so what I assumed would 00:17:51.109 --> 00:17:55.410 happen was he went in as a cook, but they needed 00:17:55.410 --> 00:17:57.289 forces on the line. So they said, Hey, guess 00:17:57.289 --> 00:17:58.789 what? You're going to be attached to this infantry 00:17:58.789 --> 00:18:00.869 unit and you're going to go fight here. And that's 00:18:00.869 --> 00:18:04.390 what happened with him. And so, but at the very 00:18:04.390 --> 00:18:05.750 end, he was starting to kind of get in dimension 00:18:05.750 --> 00:18:08.750 a little bit when he was talking to my dad. He 00:18:08.750 --> 00:18:10.990 would talk about it, but he just, his whole life, 00:18:11.009 --> 00:18:12.650 even with my dad, he never really talked about 00:18:12.650 --> 00:18:17.390 it. But I don't think they had outlets only from 00:18:17.390 --> 00:18:19.410 person to person when they would see people. 00:18:19.509 --> 00:18:21.970 A buddy of his, probably they talked about it, 00:18:21.990 --> 00:18:23.849 but they didn't talk about it with their family. 00:18:23.869 --> 00:18:25.829 They didn't have social media. They didn't have 00:18:25.829 --> 00:18:28.230 podcasts. They didn't have the technology we 00:18:28.230 --> 00:18:31.289 have now to reach out. Especially people like 00:18:31.289 --> 00:18:33.250 you that care for more people with mental health 00:18:33.250 --> 00:18:35.490 issues and stuff in the professions and jobs 00:18:35.490 --> 00:18:37.470 of military and law enforcement and firefighting 00:18:37.470 --> 00:18:40.130 that they go through. It gives people an outlet 00:18:40.130 --> 00:18:42.869 now to speak about it. Back then, the outlet 00:18:42.869 --> 00:18:44.849 was going to see Joe that lives down the road 00:18:44.849 --> 00:18:47.329 that was in the battalion next to you in Africa. 00:18:47.990 --> 00:18:52.009 And that's how they talked about it. But he never 00:18:52.009 --> 00:18:54.670 really spoke about it to my dad until close to 00:18:54.670 --> 00:18:57.369 being when he was dying. He talked about a couple 00:18:57.369 --> 00:19:01.069 of things that happened. Yeah, it is so sad because, 00:19:01.130 --> 00:19:03.549 I mean, you hear, you know, you hear these stories 00:19:03.549 --> 00:19:06.589 of, you know, what grandma or grandpa did back 00:19:06.589 --> 00:19:08.769 then if they were, you know, able to open up 00:19:08.769 --> 00:19:10.490 or, like I said, through some of the ones I've 00:19:10.490 --> 00:19:14.190 had, even on the show. And there's so many lessons. 00:19:14.269 --> 00:19:16.069 These are the voices we should be hearing. There's 00:19:16.069 --> 00:19:18.390 cautionary tales of this is what happens if. 00:19:19.339 --> 00:19:22.099 And I feel like they were exactly like, even 00:19:22.099 --> 00:19:24.759 when this was evolving and we were finally starting 00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:26.619 to create this environment where you could talk, 00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:28.799 there was still that, oh, but don't you guys 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:30.460 talk because you're the greatest generation and 00:19:30.460 --> 00:19:32.579 you just came home and you're the toughest. And 00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:35.220 I wonder how many of those, you know, obviously 00:19:35.220 --> 00:19:37.880 now at that point would have been very old veterans 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.059 really wanted to actually finally stand up and 00:19:41.059 --> 00:19:42.980 talk about it. But there was almost that stigma 00:19:42.980 --> 00:19:46.380 on that era where it made it even worse for them 00:19:46.380 --> 00:19:48.720 to talk, I think. There may have been something 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:50.539 like that. I agree with you on that. And I think 00:19:50.539 --> 00:19:53.859 that if a majority of people aren't doing something 00:19:53.859 --> 00:19:56.420 and you step out and you do something against 00:19:56.420 --> 00:19:59.119 the majority, you're kind of offsetting yourself 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:01.740 from, and it might be collectively not looked 00:20:01.740 --> 00:20:04.859 well upon. I don't know, but I can say that human 00:20:04.859 --> 00:20:07.099 nature is human nature. And I can almost guarantee 00:20:07.099 --> 00:20:11.950 you that you take a war vet here. The World War 00:20:11.950 --> 00:20:14.490 II guys are having the same feelings and stuff 00:20:14.490 --> 00:20:17.710 that these guys are having because of what you 00:20:17.710 --> 00:20:20.630 see, what you do, the duration in country. And 00:20:20.630 --> 00:20:24.230 I mean, I've often said firefighting and law 00:20:24.230 --> 00:20:26.269 enforcement, you compound that over 30 years, 00:20:26.450 --> 00:20:30.269 you see a lot of stuff. You see a lot of bad 00:20:30.269 --> 00:20:31.910 stuff and you see human nature at its worst. 00:20:32.009 --> 00:20:35.609 Now, I'm not comparing it to combat, but I'm 00:20:35.609 --> 00:20:38.009 saying the trauma that you take in and that you 00:20:38.009 --> 00:20:40.069 reserve back because you go to the next call. 00:20:40.539 --> 00:20:42.119 And you forget about what you, you know what 00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:45.299 I mean? And so your outlet has to be at home. 00:20:45.339 --> 00:20:47.019 Then when you're at home and your outlet's there, 00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:48.720 if you don't have a support group, then it leads 00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:51.279 to divorce. And then there is separation between 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:54.220 the kids and you. And so what I've always, through 00:20:54.220 --> 00:20:57.259 my career, have told people, stay active in something 00:20:57.259 --> 00:21:00.460 other than your primary job. So if you're a cop, 00:21:00.579 --> 00:21:04.759 and for my instance, I was SWAT, I liked doing 00:21:04.759 --> 00:21:08.250 those things, but they were not who I was. That 00:21:08.250 --> 00:21:11.670 was not my foundation. And so we raised beef 00:21:11.670 --> 00:21:14.630 cows. We have horses. We have property. My girls 00:21:14.630 --> 00:21:17.670 compete, so I'm coaching my girls. We're constantly 00:21:17.670 --> 00:21:22.130 doing something. And so some people have a hard 00:21:22.130 --> 00:21:24.690 time transitioning out. I had a great time transitioning 00:21:24.690 --> 00:21:27.369 out. I didn't have any issues at all. I actually 00:21:27.369 --> 00:21:31.130 loved it. You know what I mean? What was it that 00:21:31.130 --> 00:21:33.369 put law enforcement on the radar when you transitioned 00:21:33.369 --> 00:21:36.589 out? I kind of already knew that I wanted to 00:21:36.589 --> 00:21:38.950 do it because of my dad. I mean, the apple doesn't 00:21:38.950 --> 00:21:43.009 fall far from the tree. And I just, you know, 00:21:43.009 --> 00:21:46.509 my dad was my hero, still is my hero. And he 00:21:46.509 --> 00:21:50.509 was well -respected. People liked him. I knew 00:21:50.509 --> 00:21:53.789 what people said, not in front of him, to me. 00:21:55.470 --> 00:21:58.329 You know, and the friendships that he had and 00:21:58.329 --> 00:22:00.230 the leadership he had and how he could take control 00:22:00.230 --> 00:22:01.849 of the situation. I mean, just all those little 00:22:01.849 --> 00:22:04.349 micro things that you pick up as a kid that you 00:22:04.349 --> 00:22:07.849 want to emulate as a young adult. When you're 00:22:07.849 --> 00:22:10.029 young at the time, you don't, you don't see it, 00:22:10.069 --> 00:22:11.869 but as you start to become your own and you start 00:22:11.869 --> 00:22:15.490 stepping into leadership roles, I mean, you know, 00:22:15.509 --> 00:22:17.609 I've said for years that leaders are not born. 00:22:17.789 --> 00:22:19.410 There's a thing out there that say leaders are 00:22:19.410 --> 00:22:21.309 born. They are made a hundred percent. They're 00:22:21.309 --> 00:22:24.329 made, but your foundation comes from somewhere 00:22:24.329 --> 00:22:26.349 where you were raised. And if not, where you 00:22:26.349 --> 00:22:28.230 were raised, whoever mentored you as a young 00:22:28.230 --> 00:22:30.730 person, because some of those traits and values 00:22:30.730 --> 00:22:34.799 will never leave you, you know? Absolutely. So 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:36.779 talk to me about your front door experience. 00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:39.559 So I want to dive into DTAC. I want to dive into 00:22:39.559 --> 00:22:42.039 fitness standards and all things. But what was 00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:45.019 the standard when you first walked through a 00:22:45.019 --> 00:22:48.359 door in law enforcement? The fitness standard 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:52.339 was pretty plain. I mean, like the whole state 00:22:52.339 --> 00:22:54.720 had to do the same thing. It was like a mile 00:22:54.720 --> 00:23:01.000 run, 35 push -ups, 35 sit -ups, nothing crazy, 00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:05.319 nothing crazy at all. You know, and then once 00:23:05.319 --> 00:23:09.319 you got past that in my department, you never 00:23:09.319 --> 00:23:11.420 had to do a fitness standard ever again, which 00:23:11.420 --> 00:23:14.819 I disagreed with a hundred percent. And so nothing 00:23:14.819 --> 00:23:18.099 there. And then our defensive tactics you run 00:23:18.099 --> 00:23:22.380 into. So you take something, what you do in your 00:23:22.380 --> 00:23:24.680 job, the likelihood of you getting in a fight 00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:28.779 is probable. It just is right. Some fight more 00:23:28.779 --> 00:23:32.609 than others. And so with that. Should you know 00:23:32.609 --> 00:23:35.549 how to be confident in your skills to not even 00:23:35.549 --> 00:23:38.970 make it a fight? When you're confident in your 00:23:38.970 --> 00:23:41.430 ability, you can talk yourself out of a fight, 00:23:41.589 --> 00:23:44.369 right? And so I've always talked myself out. 00:23:44.410 --> 00:23:48.890 I think I've been in maybe five, six fights in 00:23:48.890 --> 00:23:52.750 24 years, right? But it didn't matter what they 00:23:52.750 --> 00:23:54.930 called me. They called me short. They called 00:23:54.930 --> 00:23:57.109 me this. They called me that. That didn't bother 00:23:57.109 --> 00:24:00.710 me, and it didn't get my goat. But I knew how 00:24:00.710 --> 00:24:04.279 to fight, too. And so what you see now is an 00:24:04.279 --> 00:24:07.819 explosion in like jujitsu and martial arts or 00:24:07.819 --> 00:24:11.240 MMA. And I will tell you firsthand, those are 00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:13.700 the guys that don't fight. They just don't. It's 00:24:13.700 --> 00:24:15.299 the weaker ones that don't know how to fight 00:24:15.299 --> 00:24:17.660 that they start to get a little heavy handed 00:24:17.660 --> 00:24:20.480 and they get the use of force complaints and 00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:24.799 stuff like that. Not all the time, but our defensive 00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:28.599 tactics was pretty good. I mean, in the academy, 00:24:28.700 --> 00:24:30.779 we had to do a fight for life. where someone 00:24:30.779 --> 00:24:33.720 just beats you up and you have to stay in there 00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:35.500 for like a couple minutes, then just getting 00:24:35.500 --> 00:24:39.160 hit, you know? And I thought that was great because 00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:42.059 a lot of people feel what it's like to get hit. 00:24:42.259 --> 00:24:45.279 You know what I mean? And so, of course, all 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:47.819 that's gone away now. Because again, what I'm 00:24:47.819 --> 00:24:49.960 trying to get to is when you start doing stuff 00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:52.240 like this, what happens? People get hurt. People 00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:54.140 get hurt in training. It takes you off the street. 00:24:54.299 --> 00:24:57.880 It lowers your numbers. And so, you know, I've 00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:01.220 often said that we'll always foster the weak, 00:25:01.339 --> 00:25:03.500 but will condemn the strong. And it needs to 00:25:03.500 --> 00:25:06.180 be reversed because confidence always comes from 00:25:06.180 --> 00:25:09.299 strength, never weakness. Bullying comes from 00:25:09.299 --> 00:25:12.779 weakness, right? Not strong people. Speaking 00:25:12.779 --> 00:25:15.759 of strong, when I, it's funny, when I look back, 00:25:15.779 --> 00:25:17.799 I had such low self -esteem because I probably 00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:20.740 was a lot stronger than I realized being grown 00:25:20.740 --> 00:25:22.640 up on a farm, you know, doing everything from 00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:25.000 mucking out stables to wrangling sheep to, you 00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:27.180 know, all things when kids were watching TV and, 00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:29.940 you know, not doing all that stuff. When you 00:25:29.940 --> 00:25:32.079 reflect back now, whether it was boot camp in 00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:34.980 the military or whether it was entering law enforcement, 00:25:35.180 --> 00:25:38.819 how much did that farm strength factor into your 00:25:38.819 --> 00:25:43.680 athleticism? How I was raised, again, built that 00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:46.299 foundation for me. Literally what the military 00:25:46.299 --> 00:25:50.900 did, it just reinforced of how my dad was. That's 00:25:50.900 --> 00:25:53.880 it. Like if my dad came home and there was a 00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:56.480 piece of clothing out of place, out of my closet, 00:25:56.500 --> 00:25:58.700 laying on my bed, it had to be removed and put 00:25:58.700 --> 00:26:01.140 where it needs to go. The Army is the same way. 00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:03.740 It's dress right dress. It's clean your stuff 00:26:03.740 --> 00:26:07.539 up, make everything secured. You know, it just 00:26:07.539 --> 00:26:09.960 heightened everything how I was raised for me. 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:13.640 And again, like I always knew that I wanted to 00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:17.400 be in the law enforcement. So my when I was in 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:21.980 the Army in Hawaii. I was always confident, but 00:26:21.980 --> 00:26:24.940 I didn't know why I was confident until I learned 00:26:24.940 --> 00:26:28.680 how to fight. So I took martial arts in Waipahu, 00:26:28.859 --> 00:26:35.180 Hawaii, and I gained another level of confidence 00:26:35.180 --> 00:26:38.099 I didn't realize I had. Once I secured that I 00:26:38.099 --> 00:26:42.759 knew that I could fight, I got way more confident. 00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:48.920 Which martial arts did you do? I did Shotokan 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:52.200 Gojiru karate, which is a few primary, a little 00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:54.720 bit of judo. And then I did a couple of years 00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:58.859 of jujitsu. And so I I've been plagued with some 00:26:58.859 --> 00:27:00.759 injuries through the military and law enforcement. 00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:05.160 I've had 21 surgeries. So I've got titanium everywhere 00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:07.720 in my body and I've torn a lot of my tendons, 00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:10.759 not from martial arts and not from working out, 00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:14.829 but just from job related stuff. So. I got to 00:27:14.829 --> 00:27:16.529 kind of take things a little bit easier now in 00:27:16.529 --> 00:27:20.490 life. So I mentioned I grew up on a farm in England. 00:27:20.549 --> 00:27:23.470 It was quite a shock when I actually entered 00:27:23.470 --> 00:27:25.990 the fire service and started working in mostly, 00:27:26.130 --> 00:27:27.750 apart from the last department, I always worked 00:27:27.750 --> 00:27:30.230 in, you know, the most struggling areas of the 00:27:30.230 --> 00:27:33.089 seas. So very, very different. There are urban 00:27:33.089 --> 00:27:35.470 stroll, the desperation, you know, the crime, 00:27:35.589 --> 00:27:38.630 et cetera. What was your experience from your 00:27:38.630 --> 00:27:44.039 background versus working in uniform now? So 00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:48.180 like growing up on a little small ranch or something? 00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:51.539 Yeah. I mean, had you been exposed to the areas 00:27:51.539 --> 00:27:54.960 that you were working in, was there a jarring 00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:56.980 element compared to the areas that you've grown 00:27:56.980 --> 00:27:58.920 up in? Or was it similar to where you've grown 00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:04.779 up? Oh, no. I grew up in the country and I worked 00:28:04.779 --> 00:28:07.319 in the inner cities. You know what I mean? So 00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:10.539 there was like polar opposite. But with confidence, 00:28:10.619 --> 00:28:13.180 you learn how to mold. And you learn how to speak 00:28:13.180 --> 00:28:16.660 to people. And so I could roll into Seattle and 00:28:16.660 --> 00:28:20.700 I could talk to a 74 Hoover Crip, right? They 00:28:20.700 --> 00:28:23.660 understand the game. They do the crime. We chase 00:28:23.660 --> 00:28:26.400 them. We put them in jail. It's a weird mutual 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:29.819 underlying respect there. But I don't try to 00:28:29.819 --> 00:28:33.779 bring the way I was raised up into their atmosphere. 00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:38.099 You know what I mean? So I say the one thing 00:28:38.099 --> 00:28:40.569 that... farm kids grew up with and ranch kids 00:28:40.569 --> 00:28:42.430 that grew up with where people talk about farm 00:28:42.430 --> 00:28:45.789 strength, I think it's more mental because you 00:28:45.789 --> 00:28:48.990 don't get to leave until the task is done on 00:28:48.990 --> 00:28:51.210 a ranch or a farm. You can't just put some fence 00:28:51.210 --> 00:28:52.769 up halfway and call it a day and come in here 00:28:52.769 --> 00:28:54.990 and drink Coke and watch TV. You can't do that. 00:28:55.230 --> 00:28:58.589 And so I think that mental piece to that of how 00:28:58.589 --> 00:29:03.930 I was raised, just it grew into my careers and 00:29:03.930 --> 00:29:06.170 stuff like that. But where I came from to where 00:29:06.170 --> 00:29:09.539 I was, polar opposites but you learn how to communicate 00:29:09.539 --> 00:29:12.859 with people you know and so the military throws 00:29:12.859 --> 00:29:16.039 you into a big old pool of different cultures 00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:21.079 all living in the same barracks you know so you 00:29:21.079 --> 00:29:24.519 got a kid from Kentucky that's a coal miner and 00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:26.680 you had a kid from Detroit that was in a gang 00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:28.480 that realized he was going to go to jail or go 00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:30.859 to the military and then everyone just seems 00:29:30.859 --> 00:29:34.400 to get along because you have a common core objective 00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:38.809 that everyone's trying to strive for. With that 00:29:38.809 --> 00:29:43.789 being such a thing, how do we get away from this 00:29:43.789 --> 00:29:47.170 deliberate pigeonholing and separation of people 00:29:47.170 --> 00:29:50.109 based on that very element? Because when I think 00:29:50.109 --> 00:29:52.329 about Americans, I think the military, the first 00:29:52.329 --> 00:29:54.710 responder professions are the perfect example. 00:29:54.910 --> 00:29:57.190 And even more so in the fire service, because 00:29:57.190 --> 00:29:59.950 I've pointed out, if we're in our full bunker 00:29:59.950 --> 00:30:03.779 gear on air in a burning building. The only prejudice 00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:05.880 that we have is, is that a good firefighter or 00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:07.920 a bad firefighter? You can tell from the fire 00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:10.299 ground what they're doing. That is it. It doesn't 00:30:10.299 --> 00:30:11.980 matter who they sleep with, what they look like, 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:13.880 where they pray. They're either good or they're 00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:17.200 bad. But this last year, especially, I feel like, 00:30:17.259 --> 00:30:19.059 well, that's unfair. Let's say the last nine 00:30:19.059 --> 00:30:22.299 years, there has been a deliberate wedge to separate 00:30:22.299 --> 00:30:24.799 people, to label people, to set people against 00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:28.019 each other based on these, you know, linear. 00:30:29.450 --> 00:30:34.849 single -layer descriptions or groupings, if you 00:30:34.849 --> 00:30:38.930 like, how do we refine the very lessons that 00:30:38.930 --> 00:30:41.349 we've seen in the military, in the first responder 00:30:41.349 --> 00:30:45.089 professions, where, again, we work and risk our 00:30:45.089 --> 00:30:48.150 lives side by side with people from all backgrounds? 00:30:50.430 --> 00:30:54.559 You know, I think people get... too tied up into 00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:56.920 being a me culture. And that's where that separation 00:30:56.920 --> 00:30:59.119 comes from. Like I'm going to outdo you and say, 00:30:59.180 --> 00:31:02.400 I got more trauma than you, or I've got worse 00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:04.460 hardships than you. So the limelight's on me, 00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:07.440 not you. You know what I mean? And so when I've 00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:11.180 gone and I talk to teams now, I still, I still 00:31:11.180 --> 00:31:13.400 contract overseas. So I go to Africa and the 00:31:13.400 --> 00:31:16.940 Middle East quite a bit. And we build team dynamics 00:31:16.940 --> 00:31:20.859 wherever we go. And so when you talk to people, 00:31:21.609 --> 00:31:23.670 It's not just Americans that are tied into their 00:31:23.670 --> 00:31:26.990 phone on Instagram or TikTok. The entire continent 00:31:26.990 --> 00:31:29.170 of Africa is too. They all have little cell phones 00:31:29.170 --> 00:31:31.509 that they've gotten. The Middle East is the same 00:31:31.509 --> 00:31:34.289 way. And they learn through visual looking and 00:31:34.289 --> 00:31:36.789 they think this is how things are applied until 00:31:36.789 --> 00:31:39.589 you actually talk to them, right? When you build 00:31:39.589 --> 00:31:42.670 team dynamics, I think what you're speaking about 00:31:42.670 --> 00:31:47.509 as far as like how to get people singular mindset 00:31:47.509 --> 00:31:50.750 on an objective, because I don't care. who you're 00:31:50.750 --> 00:31:53.450 married to. We have a job to do over here and 00:31:53.450 --> 00:31:56.609 that's to put this fire out. So you and I need 00:31:56.609 --> 00:31:59.750 to have shared skills, equal amount of skills 00:31:59.750 --> 00:32:03.769 to put that fire out. Right. But we get so tied 00:32:03.769 --> 00:32:06.430 up into, because I think it's because I want 00:32:06.430 --> 00:32:08.990 to be on a pedestal just a little bit above you. 00:32:09.450 --> 00:32:13.049 So I'm going to make it about me and human nature. 00:32:15.029 --> 00:32:19.279 Most of the time they lie. So if someone asks 00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:20.660 someone's their feelings or whatnot, sometimes 00:32:20.660 --> 00:32:22.920 they'll lie or they'll omit things from their 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:24.619 story to make it more believable. And they won't 00:32:24.619 --> 00:32:26.359 give you the full truth until you start breaking 00:32:26.359 --> 00:32:28.559 things down. Like when you do an interrogation, 00:32:28.579 --> 00:32:30.960 criminals lie and you have to get the truth. 00:32:31.259 --> 00:32:33.599 And so sometimes it could be done within five 00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:35.420 minutes and sometimes it takes over an hour, 00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:38.579 but you can finally get the truth out of people. 00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:40.480 But initially they want to lie because they don't 00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:42.619 want to look either bad. They don't want to admit 00:32:42.619 --> 00:32:46.380 guilt or. Um, they omit things from their story 00:32:46.380 --> 00:32:49.440 to make it more believable for their side. And 00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:52.440 so it's, I think it's a human nature thing too, 00:32:52.500 --> 00:32:55.500 to be kind of like, Hey, me, me, me. But what 00:32:55.500 --> 00:32:57.299 happens is with Instagram and TikTok and all 00:32:57.299 --> 00:33:00.420 this other stuff, it is compounded now by me, 00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:04.160 me, me. And I am, I'm one step above, but if 00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:06.380 you go to a team right now, you might have one 00:33:06.380 --> 00:33:09.279 or two guys in there. And we kind of quashed 00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:14.009 that on our team. Um, give me an example. We 00:33:14.009 --> 00:33:16.369 were out of the range. New guy comes out. He 00:33:16.369 --> 00:33:18.769 wasn't on the team yet, but he had some of those 00:33:18.769 --> 00:33:22.670 morale patches all over his vest. And it said 00:33:22.670 --> 00:33:25.089 shit magnet, secret squirrel. And I told him 00:33:25.089 --> 00:33:27.450 to take them off. And I said, we don't do that 00:33:27.450 --> 00:33:30.829 here. That's singling yourself out that you're 00:33:30.829 --> 00:33:34.369 a shit magnet. Now, how does that look like if 00:33:34.369 --> 00:33:36.609 one of the admins come out and they see a professional 00:33:36.609 --> 00:33:39.890 team doing stuff and they see that? And that's 00:33:39.890 --> 00:33:42.529 just my take, right? So we never wore stuff like 00:33:42.529 --> 00:33:44.779 that. And I just wanted to kind of separate the 00:33:44.779 --> 00:33:49.039 me to us. You know, if we did something, it wasn't 00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:51.980 like our SWAT team. It was the sheriff's office. 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:53.759 We're an arm of the sheriff's office, right? 00:33:53.900 --> 00:33:57.980 And so, but yeah, same thing with my family. 00:33:58.259 --> 00:34:01.980 It's not I, it's us. Your kids are born into 00:34:01.980 --> 00:34:05.519 their very first team, right? Mom and dad. There's 00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:08.400 a hierarchy, just like leaderships have. But 00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:10.940 everything they do reflects the name of our last 00:34:10.940 --> 00:34:12.719 name, and everything we do reflects their last 00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:14.940 name. So everyone does things as a team concept 00:34:14.940 --> 00:34:19.260 here. What, when you reflect back, are some of 00:34:19.260 --> 00:34:21.199 the career calls that you had, the ones that 00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:26.800 really stick in your mind? There's a bunch, and 00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:33.630 I've forgotten a bunch too, man. Uh, there was 00:34:33.630 --> 00:34:35.650 a mountain mission we did that was pretty known. 00:34:35.829 --> 00:34:38.809 I think Netflix is doing a thing on it now. Um, 00:34:39.050 --> 00:34:41.929 you know, a guy killed his wife and kid went 00:34:41.929 --> 00:34:44.230 up in the mountains and hid and he'd built a 00:34:44.230 --> 00:34:46.690 bunker for eight years and we had to hike in 00:34:46.690 --> 00:34:49.550 and go get him. Uh, and he ended up killing himself 00:34:49.550 --> 00:34:52.309 and we had to recover his body out of the, out 00:34:52.309 --> 00:34:56.010 of the bunker. But we were there a full, full 00:34:56.010 --> 00:34:58.829 day, went back that night, got some sleep, came 00:34:58.829 --> 00:35:01.530 back the morning and then got him out of the 00:35:01.530 --> 00:35:04.570 bunker. That was a pretty good one because it 00:35:04.570 --> 00:35:08.769 tested our capabilities that we've built, which 00:35:08.769 --> 00:35:11.070 was good. We did a lot of helicopter. We had 00:35:11.070 --> 00:35:13.869 an aircraft. So we did some stuff out of the 00:35:13.869 --> 00:35:15.789 helicopter. We did a lot of explosive breaching. 00:35:15.809 --> 00:35:19.289 So we did an explosive breach on that one. But, 00:35:19.409 --> 00:35:23.289 you know, that one and with the things with kids 00:35:23.289 --> 00:35:26.929 kind of hurt, they mess with me. And I don't, 00:35:26.929 --> 00:35:29.130 if I don't have to go into a scene and see a 00:35:29.130 --> 00:35:32.329 kid that's hurt, I won't. I just won't. There's 00:35:32.329 --> 00:35:34.130 enough people in there to do. If things are calmed 00:35:34.130 --> 00:35:36.110 down, there's absolutely nothing. I do not want 00:35:36.110 --> 00:35:38.590 to feed that into my brain. So I have to remember 00:35:38.590 --> 00:35:40.190 it later because there's certain things, as you 00:35:40.190 --> 00:35:43.869 know, that just don't leave. A good buddy of 00:35:43.869 --> 00:35:47.449 mine that I graduated the academy with was shot 00:35:47.449 --> 00:35:52.570 and killed. And I was at home and I got the phone 00:35:52.570 --> 00:35:56.429 call and I was kind of on our personal assistance 00:35:56.429 --> 00:35:59.929 team. where I would go in there and help assist 00:35:59.929 --> 00:36:02.969 other deputies with trauma and stuff. But I was 00:36:02.969 --> 00:36:06.650 also on the SWAT team. The dispatcher said, Hey, 00:36:06.650 --> 00:36:08.010 we need you. And I said, is it going to be a 00:36:08.010 --> 00:36:10.010 SWAT call out? Cause I'm going to go a SWAT. 00:36:10.050 --> 00:36:11.489 And she goes, I don't know. And then she told 00:36:11.489 --> 00:36:14.610 me where he was shot. And I was just, to this 00:36:14.610 --> 00:36:17.869 day, I was, I was like, he's not going to recover. 00:36:18.030 --> 00:36:19.070 And they're like, we don't know that. We don't 00:36:19.070 --> 00:36:20.809 know that. I stood in front of my dresser and 00:36:20.809 --> 00:36:23.110 I did not know what to put on. And my wife got 00:36:23.110 --> 00:36:24.530 out of bed and was like, what's wrong? And I'm 00:36:24.530 --> 00:36:28.210 like, Steve's been shot. And so worst thing I 00:36:28.210 --> 00:36:30.909 ever did is I went to the hospital with him laying 00:36:30.909 --> 00:36:32.550 there with his wife and kid. And I just can't 00:36:32.550 --> 00:36:35.489 get that out of my head. Those, you know, but 00:36:35.489 --> 00:36:37.269 everyone's got something that they've gone through 00:36:37.269 --> 00:36:41.269 in life. And so we did things for his kid throughout 00:36:41.269 --> 00:36:42.929 the years. He would come out to the SWAT team 00:36:42.929 --> 00:36:45.650 and we'd put a big thing on for him. And they 00:36:45.650 --> 00:36:47.909 did toy drives and money things for his kid. 00:36:47.929 --> 00:36:51.320 And it was great, you know, but. Those are a 00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:53.639 couple of things. Like one was a, I like testing 00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:55.500 capabilities because you train so hard. You want 00:36:55.500 --> 00:36:56.780 to make sure that you know what you're doing 00:36:56.780 --> 00:36:58.559 and that your team can perform a certain capability. 00:36:59.260 --> 00:37:02.460 And the other ones, the traumatic ones, I try 00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:04.880 not to focus too much on just because I don't 00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:09.239 want that space in my brain, you know, there's 00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:12.280 more, but I, you know, but I just, that's just 00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:15.219 one that come out of my mind. Yeah. Well, I mean, 00:37:15.219 --> 00:37:16.679 you just hit on a very important point though. 00:37:16.739 --> 00:37:19.800 And I literally got to be on the positive receiving 00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:22.480 end of this very early in my career, Anaheim. 00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:28.159 We had a really horrible single vehicle accident. 00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:31.920 The little three -year -old in the back was decapitated. 00:37:32.119 --> 00:37:34.260 The boyfriend in the front was killed on impact 00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:39.019 as well. And the mother had survived. And when 00:37:39.019 --> 00:37:41.079 we got there, the engine had already thrown a 00:37:41.079 --> 00:37:46.090 blanket over the body in the back. And so we 00:37:46.090 --> 00:37:47.730 kind of, you know, there was nothing to do. The 00:37:47.730 --> 00:37:49.630 one woman was transported and then the other 00:37:49.630 --> 00:37:52.010 two were deceased. So I think we removed one. 00:37:52.130 --> 00:37:53.550 I can't remember if we got the boyfriend out 00:37:53.550 --> 00:37:56.170 or not, but the little girl was trapped. So they 00:37:56.170 --> 00:37:57.849 told us, go back to the station when the coroner's 00:37:57.849 --> 00:38:00.929 ready, they'll call us back. And myself and my 00:38:00.929 --> 00:38:03.150 partner were very new. I think we'd only been 00:38:03.150 --> 00:38:05.610 there, I don't know, we probably had like two, 00:38:05.690 --> 00:38:08.630 three years on the job, that was it. And we got 00:38:08.630 --> 00:38:12.869 the tone to go extricate the child. And my captain 00:38:12.869 --> 00:38:16.130 turned to me and said, you guys stay here. And 00:38:16.130 --> 00:38:18.050 I actually had a little boy that was about two 00:38:18.050 --> 00:38:21.650 at the time. I take that back, about a year and 00:38:21.650 --> 00:38:23.909 change at the time. And he said, you're going 00:38:23.909 --> 00:38:25.750 to see enough horrible stuff in your career. 00:38:25.849 --> 00:38:27.389 You don't need to add this one to your list. 00:38:27.849 --> 00:38:30.329 And he was getting ready to retire not too long 00:38:30.329 --> 00:38:33.449 after that. But I never forgot that. And it really 00:38:33.449 --> 00:38:36.389 resonated with me that there is no badge of honor 00:38:36.389 --> 00:38:39.039 of seeing the most horrible shit. And that's 00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:40.900 what we think when you're young, fired up, whatever, 00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:44.739 please fire EMS. But as you said, they accumulate. 00:38:45.179 --> 00:38:48.739 And so conversely, I had one, ironically, my 00:38:48.739 --> 00:38:51.280 last shift of my second last apartment where 00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:53.920 a homeless woman had gone missing. And she was 00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:56.380 deep in the woods. You could kind of smell way 00:38:56.380 --> 00:38:58.920 before you got there. And I got the ability to 00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:01.679 tell them, all right, don't come. I'll just go 00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:03.920 see this one. And as a medic, I'll tell you. 00:39:04.329 --> 00:39:06.269 clearly call it i mean she was just hanging from 00:39:06.269 --> 00:39:09.750 a tree bits of her hanging from a tree um but 00:39:09.750 --> 00:39:11.510 yeah but just like you said it's so important 00:39:11.510 --> 00:39:13.769 especially if there are you know younger first 00:39:13.769 --> 00:39:16.750 responders listening to this if your leaders 00:39:16.750 --> 00:39:19.349 in the fire service if they do not have to see 00:39:19.349 --> 00:39:22.210 it don't show them there's nothing to be gained 00:39:22.210 --> 00:39:25.329 for adding yet another photo to that that mental 00:39:25.329 --> 00:39:27.639 collection If you ever want to know what a good 00:39:27.639 --> 00:39:29.239 leader is, that's a good leader right there. 00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:31.679 A hundred percent. Yeah. That is like looking 00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:34.219 out for your own with young kids that you don't, 00:39:34.219 --> 00:39:37.099 and his perfect sentence was, you'll see enough 00:39:37.099 --> 00:39:38.780 in your lifetime. You don't need to see this. 00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:44.039 Right. But yeah, it's you, you accumulate that 00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:45.860 trauma over the years and you just compact it 00:39:45.860 --> 00:39:47.960 away, compact it away, compact it away. And it 00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:50.639 will revisit you. I'm not dumb to the fact that 00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:54.159 these things don't come back and, you know, but 00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:57.659 it's like the more. that your family is around 00:39:57.659 --> 00:40:00.539 you or your friendship and the things that you 00:40:00.539 --> 00:40:03.800 can do. It's like a lot of guys do retire. And 00:40:03.800 --> 00:40:05.159 what do they tell you? They don't ever want to 00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:07.639 work again. So what do they do? They just sit 00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:09.360 down and they watch TV. They don't do anything. 00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:11.719 And they got their dream home, but they don't 00:40:11.719 --> 00:40:13.940 go outside. They don't do anything. Not everybody, 00:40:14.260 --> 00:40:18.000 but I mean, do something, man. You know, because 00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:21.059 that just keeps that brain active. And I think 00:40:21.059 --> 00:40:24.800 it helps. And I'm not an expert at it, you know. 00:40:25.289 --> 00:40:31.849 And I was asked by a medical doctor if I had 00:40:31.849 --> 00:40:35.070 PTSD. And I said, I don't know. I honest to God, 00:40:35.090 --> 00:40:40.010 I don't know if I do. And TBI, I said, I probably 00:40:40.010 --> 00:40:42.690 have TBI from all the explosive concussions that 00:40:42.690 --> 00:40:44.730 I've taken over the years from SWAT and the army. 00:40:45.750 --> 00:40:47.489 But I don't know how it affects me. And there's 00:40:47.489 --> 00:40:49.469 a test that I want to go do here in Texas that 00:40:49.469 --> 00:40:52.710 they can test you for TBI. And so I want to get 00:40:52.710 --> 00:40:56.760 that tested just so I know. ptsd i don't know 00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:59.360 i just and it's not afraid to get tested for 00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:02.300 it i just i just i think i'm the way i'm living 00:41:02.300 --> 00:41:07.440 my life now i'm pretty healthy mentally so you 00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:11.179 know i think i'm good for right now i think when 00:41:11.179 --> 00:41:14.019 this conversation really first started gaining 00:41:14.019 --> 00:41:17.119 traction probably about 10 years ago now we were 00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:19.739 all calling everything PTSD. And what's nice 00:41:19.739 --> 00:41:21.639 is that you've seen this evolution. And of course, 00:41:21.659 --> 00:41:23.420 don't get me wrong, there are experts in their 00:41:23.420 --> 00:41:26.260 field that were talking the right way, way before, 00:41:26.360 --> 00:41:28.400 but we were all white belts in this world initially. 00:41:29.139 --> 00:41:31.360 But now, you know, you've got operator syndrome, 00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:34.239 you've got TBIs, you've got CTE, you've got, 00:41:34.239 --> 00:41:36.219 you know, moral injury, you've got true PTSD. 00:41:37.049 --> 00:41:39.610 And so, you know, there are all these different 00:41:39.610 --> 00:41:41.829 kind of nuances to what we're going through. 00:41:41.929 --> 00:41:44.210 And I think if you look at true PTSD, that is 00:41:44.210 --> 00:41:47.329 the trigger, that is the car backfiring and you're 00:41:47.329 --> 00:41:50.309 under a table. I mean, the night terrors, all 00:41:50.309 --> 00:41:52.630 those things, that's, you know, bona fide PTSD. 00:41:52.690 --> 00:41:54.489 But then you've got moral injury, which is the 00:41:54.489 --> 00:41:56.329 inability to save and organizational betrayal 00:41:56.329 --> 00:41:58.929 and all these other things that contribute to 00:41:58.929 --> 00:42:03.010 us struggling. But I think where I'm at now, 00:42:03.230 --> 00:42:05.949 because it's the same kind of thing, I really... 00:42:06.219 --> 00:42:08.079 don't have anything that haunts me and again 00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:10.000 the question is why and i reflect to all the 00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:11.840 good things in my upbringing that kind of offset 00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:15.460 but it's like but yeah am i operating at an optimal 00:42:15.460 --> 00:42:18.400 level and no i'm not you know brain fog fatigue 00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:21.099 some other things and i did combat sports most 00:42:21.099 --> 00:42:22.719 of my life you know got punched and kicked in 00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:26.599 the head a lot sleep deprivation um so now i've 00:42:26.599 --> 00:42:28.780 kind of turned it around well well if i optimize 00:42:28.780 --> 00:42:31.780 if i go um you know do some of these therapies 00:42:32.460 --> 00:42:34.880 It's only going to help regardless of what you 00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:37.199 call the thing. Now, if you're really being plagued 00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:39.039 by it and you're drinking yourself to sleep and 00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:41.199 that's a whole different conversation. But for 00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:44.059 everyone else, why not just try some of these 00:42:44.059 --> 00:42:46.159 anyway and see if you can just turn the dial 00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:47.960 up a little bit more. There's nothing to be lost 00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:51.539 in improving your performance. Yeah, I agree. 00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:55.139 And who's to say what will work for you, what 00:42:55.139 --> 00:42:57.739 won't work for you, you know. And who am I to 00:42:57.739 --> 00:43:00.159 say that, no, don't go do that. Why would you 00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:02.079 say that to somebody if they're willing to try 00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:03.360 to get their health better? You know what I mean? 00:43:03.460 --> 00:43:06.400 And so sleep deprivation is probably, I think, 00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:09.780 the number one thing for like fire and law enforcement 00:43:09.780 --> 00:43:13.900 that are on call -out status. Being woken up 00:43:13.900 --> 00:43:16.659 in the middle of the night constantly from the 00:43:16.659 --> 00:43:20.860 phone, the pager, it weighs on you. It weighs 00:43:20.860 --> 00:43:24.159 on you. And you do it for so long. The number 00:43:24.159 --> 00:43:27.940 one thing after I retired, the number one thing 00:43:27.940 --> 00:43:30.699 that I noticed, As I was able to sleep through 00:43:30.699 --> 00:43:33.860 the night and it was awesome. It was awesome 00:43:33.860 --> 00:43:36.780 because we were tied on SWAT. We were tied to 00:43:36.780 --> 00:43:40.019 our phones. We were, I was on that phone so much. 00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:43.960 And as a team leader, you have various different 00:43:43.960 --> 00:43:45.539 roles, but you get a lot of phone calls and stuff 00:43:45.539 --> 00:43:46.880 and you're calling the sergeants and stuff like 00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:50.239 that. But after I let that phone go, when I retired, 00:43:50.380 --> 00:43:54.420 there was just like a huge, like the cord was 00:43:54.420 --> 00:43:57.280 just cut. And it didn't, it wasn't like I didn't 00:43:57.280 --> 00:44:00.019 know what to do. I knew what to do, but I was 00:44:00.019 --> 00:44:01.760 able to, and I woke and I told my wife, I was 00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:04.219 like, man, this is pretty nice. I can sleep through 00:44:04.219 --> 00:44:06.659 the night. This is great. You're not getting 00:44:06.659 --> 00:44:08.960 woken up anymore. It's not like a shock of, I 00:44:08.960 --> 00:44:11.639 mean, cause you come up, you're 10 toes up and 00:44:11.639 --> 00:44:15.960 you're just dead to sleep to, you just got somebody 00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:17.780 that's just been shot and killed and the, and 00:44:17.780 --> 00:44:19.599 the suspects on the run and you're trying to 00:44:19.599 --> 00:44:21.699 coordinate, get dressed and you're on your radio 00:44:21.699 --> 00:44:25.170 and on your phone. And you just woke up 30 seconds 00:44:25.170 --> 00:44:27.789 ago. And then you turn your lights and sirens 00:44:27.789 --> 00:44:30.289 on and you're going and you learn how to manage 00:44:30.289 --> 00:44:34.489 that after time. When you're brand new, the analogy 00:44:34.489 --> 00:44:37.550 is you're looking through a straw. The more you 00:44:37.550 --> 00:44:40.230 do it, you start broadening your vision out and 00:44:40.230 --> 00:44:42.010 then you can start multitasking a little bit 00:44:42.010 --> 00:44:43.750 better. And a lot of people are like, aren't 00:44:43.750 --> 00:44:45.829 you, doesn't this mess with you at that time? 00:44:45.889 --> 00:44:48.190 No, it didn't because you knew how to manage 00:44:48.190 --> 00:44:50.409 it and you knew what to do within those certain 00:44:50.409 --> 00:44:53.500 segments of. getting up and organizing and moving 00:44:53.500 --> 00:44:58.539 towards the target, you know? So, uh, yeah, but 00:44:58.539 --> 00:45:01.340 sleep is a big thing. Huge, huge, huge, huge. 00:45:01.500 --> 00:45:03.960 Even for like, if you go and you work out, like 00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:08.039 people taking hormone therapy to get stronger 00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:10.679 and I'll make, that's great. But if your recovery 00:45:10.679 --> 00:45:12.679 is not there, it's not going to help you. So 00:45:12.679 --> 00:45:15.920 the sleep just, it benefits everybody, you know? 00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:18.579 It's so crazy. And obviously the fire service, 00:45:18.679 --> 00:45:20.480 I mean, their hours are just insane at the moment. 00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:22.079 We've got this recruitment crisis, which I know 00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:24.659 law enforcement does too. And you've got in the 00:45:24.659 --> 00:45:27.280 standard work week is 56. So now you add mandatory 00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:29.619 overtime, that's immediately 80 hours. And then, 00:45:29.659 --> 00:45:32.239 you know, a lot of places even worse. And you 00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:34.619 take a step back and go, so the people that make 00:45:34.619 --> 00:45:37.960 my coffee tap out at 40 hours a week, but the 00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:41.360 people I call on my family's worst day to make 00:45:41.360 --> 00:45:44.119 life -saving decisions and have life -saving 00:45:44.119 --> 00:45:47.730 athleticism. I'm okay with them working two civilian 00:45:47.730 --> 00:45:51.949 weeks a week. It's absolute insanity and it's 00:45:51.949 --> 00:45:54.730 so backwards. But our profession is so kind of 00:45:54.730 --> 00:45:57.590 brainwashed that even when you bring that to 00:45:57.590 --> 00:45:59.710 them, they're like, oh, no, no, no, no, that's 00:45:59.710 --> 00:46:01.650 not a thing because they're so sleep deprived. 00:46:01.809 --> 00:46:04.610 They can't even critically think and self -assess 00:46:04.610 --> 00:46:07.309 to the point, you know, why is my favorite NFL 00:46:07.309 --> 00:46:10.610 wide receiver getting all the sleep in the world? 00:46:11.079 --> 00:46:13.760 But I'm going to wake up at 3 a .m., jump in 00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:15.820 the back of a tiller truck, drive to a fire, 00:46:15.940 --> 00:46:18.679 go into a third story window and try and search 00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:21.079 for a child. And I'm working eight hours a week. 00:46:21.179 --> 00:46:24.099 It's pure insanity. And a lot of people that 00:46:24.099 --> 00:46:26.519 make those decisions now, they don't jump on 00:46:26.519 --> 00:46:28.500 the fire truck and go into the fire. Nope. They 00:46:28.500 --> 00:46:31.820 don't do that. And so at that level, and I saw 00:46:31.820 --> 00:46:34.840 it in law enforcement, in positions, they are 00:46:34.840 --> 00:46:37.739 there strictly to mitigate anything coming in 00:46:37.739 --> 00:46:40.750 at them to make their career path smooth. So 00:46:40.750 --> 00:46:43.489 they, nope, don't do that. Well, we need this 00:46:43.489 --> 00:46:45.690 to do that. No, don't, don't cause any bumps. 00:46:45.829 --> 00:46:48.949 Don't cause any waves. Well, how do you get better? 00:46:49.030 --> 00:46:52.469 You know, we did very well and we had some very 00:46:52.469 --> 00:46:57.010 large fights to bring on new capabilities like 00:46:57.010 --> 00:47:02.110 on our team. And it was met with, nope, it was 00:47:02.110 --> 00:47:07.130 met with laughter. And then once we did it, everybody 00:47:07.130 --> 00:47:09.699 wants to join in. Because it was successful. 00:47:09.960 --> 00:47:12.659 But you have to make it successful. And we had 00:47:12.659 --> 00:47:15.320 some good guys on our team that made stuff very 00:47:15.320 --> 00:47:19.480 successful. Very successful. If my memory serves 00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:21.719 me right, when we spoke on The Collective, I 00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:23.599 think you talked about some of the technology 00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:25.300 at the end of the career that you fought for, 00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:27.639 like drones and things like that. So talk to 00:47:27.639 --> 00:47:30.679 me about these good ideas from the ground and 00:47:30.679 --> 00:47:33.059 how were you able to make it happen in your department? 00:47:34.699 --> 00:47:36.920 We had a guy that was on our team that was in 00:47:36.920 --> 00:47:39.619 the Navy. He had gotten deployed and he was working 00:47:39.619 --> 00:47:42.820 with JSOC. He came back, you know, and he was 00:47:42.820 --> 00:47:44.000 just sitting there having coffee with us. He 00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:46.019 goes, I don't know why every law enforcement 00:47:46.019 --> 00:47:49.079 SWAT team in America doesn't have drones because 00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:51.719 he's looking at mitigation of risk, right? I'm 00:47:51.719 --> 00:47:54.380 like, oh, well, we have technology already. We 00:47:54.380 --> 00:47:56.860 have robots that go inside of a house, you know? 00:47:57.420 --> 00:48:01.400 And so we kind of talked about it, talked about 00:48:01.400 --> 00:48:05.329 it, and it just started gaining more. and there 00:48:05.329 --> 00:48:10.130 was a team that was in our county. It was comprised 00:48:10.130 --> 00:48:12.469 of seven different agencies. They had gotten 00:48:12.469 --> 00:48:15.250 drones. Well, we were looking for a shooter off 00:48:15.250 --> 00:48:18.289 a freeway one day. So who did we call? The drone. 00:48:18.429 --> 00:48:20.769 Because why stick your guys in the woods into 00:48:20.769 --> 00:48:24.789 a gunfight, right? And so we all had canines 00:48:24.789 --> 00:48:27.809 on our SWAT team. And so we kept utilizing their 00:48:27.809 --> 00:48:30.190 drone. And we're like, man, this is... Dumb. 00:48:30.190 --> 00:48:32.449 Why don't we get our own program? They've got 00:48:32.449 --> 00:48:35.110 it figured out, right? And so when you do stuff 00:48:35.110 --> 00:48:36.949 like that, you don't have to create your own 00:48:36.949 --> 00:48:39.789 SOPs. You can borrow other people's SOPs and 00:48:39.789 --> 00:48:41.829 create your name on it. And people know that 00:48:41.829 --> 00:48:46.030 and they share it, right? So we started building 00:48:46.030 --> 00:48:55.730 our methodology to technology, dog, person. to 00:48:55.730 --> 00:48:57.869 minimize the risk to us going inside of a house, 00:48:57.989 --> 00:49:01.429 right? And so we would look at not just one situation 00:49:01.429 --> 00:49:04.530 and go, guns up, boys, let's go. We're going 00:49:04.530 --> 00:49:07.389 in. We don't need to go in. Don't go in. So we 00:49:07.389 --> 00:49:11.710 did vehicle takeoffs, right? We called them MAT 00:49:11.710 --> 00:49:14.929 teams, Mobile Arrest Teams. We would just get 00:49:14.929 --> 00:49:16.510 a pattern of life on the guy and we'd sit on 00:49:16.510 --> 00:49:18.889 him. When he would leave, we'd take control of 00:49:18.889 --> 00:49:21.349 him in the vehicle and we'd wreck him. We were 00:49:21.349 --> 00:49:23.739 highly successful in those MAT takedowns. highly 00:49:23.739 --> 00:49:27.400 successful. And so it got to a point where we 00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:29.320 drafted up a memo and it went up to the chief 00:49:29.320 --> 00:49:32.219 and chief brought it to the sheriff and got kind 00:49:32.219 --> 00:49:35.960 of scolded by the sheriff. And then it was kind 00:49:35.960 --> 00:49:39.559 of a joking thing on a team that I, I will talk 00:49:39.559 --> 00:49:41.579 to anyone. I don't care who you are. I give you 00:49:41.579 --> 00:49:43.960 respect and I'm tactful, but I'm not fearful 00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:46.119 of talking to anyone. And I've talked to very 00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:50.780 high end people. And so the sergeant was like, 00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:52.860 you know, I'm I hate to say this, but it's going 00:49:52.860 --> 00:49:54.699 to take someone like Sprout. That's my nickname. 00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:57.159 Someone like Sprout to go just talk to the sheriff. 00:49:57.280 --> 00:49:59.599 So we were doing a detail, a protection detail 00:49:59.599 --> 00:50:02.000 for the sheriff one day. And I just walked up 00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:04.360 to her and I said, you got five minutes? She 00:50:04.360 --> 00:50:06.000 goes, yeah, what do you got? And I literally 00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:07.940 just laid it on her about drones. And I said, 00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:09.800 we're not asking for anything different. It's 00:50:09.800 --> 00:50:12.300 the same technology. We have to have a warrant 00:50:12.300 --> 00:50:13.880 before we go in. We're not going to send it in 00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:15.860 without. We're doing it right now. The only thing 00:50:15.860 --> 00:50:18.250 a drone offers us. Our technology is getting 00:50:18.250 --> 00:50:20.289 tied up in laundry baskets and clothing on the 00:50:20.289 --> 00:50:22.369 ground. This sets us up about four feet off the 00:50:22.369 --> 00:50:23.690 ground. The only thing that's going to stop us 00:50:23.690 --> 00:50:26.489 is a closed door. I like it. Set up the meeting. 00:50:26.590 --> 00:50:31.550 And then we got them. You know, there's a hundred 00:50:31.550 --> 00:50:35.469 people that will tell you no, right? But if you 00:50:35.469 --> 00:50:39.550 revisit it, 98 of them still might say no, but 00:50:39.550 --> 00:50:42.030 two of them might go, hmm, all you need is that 00:50:42.030 --> 00:50:44.690 one person. You just need one person. And sometimes 00:50:44.690 --> 00:50:47.409 it is who it comes from, you know. If I have 00:50:47.409 --> 00:50:50.010 a disdain for you and I don't like you, whatever 00:50:50.010 --> 00:50:51.869 idea you come with me, I'm going to shoot down. 00:50:52.110 --> 00:50:55.849 But Mike, I like him. He comes in with this verbatim, 00:50:55.849 --> 00:50:57.849 the same thing that you have and I'll take hit. 00:50:57.969 --> 00:51:00.050 You see what I'm saying? And so human nature. 00:51:00.230 --> 00:51:04.429 And so, but we never tried to, we never played 00:51:04.429 --> 00:51:07.610 like politics. We, everything was factually driven. 00:51:07.809 --> 00:51:11.369 It's like we built a huge maritime program, fast 00:51:11.369 --> 00:51:13.530 roping out of helicopters, shooting out of helicopters, 00:51:13.730 --> 00:51:18.510 all built. from two guys on our SWAT team. And 00:51:18.510 --> 00:51:20.829 then the team joined in and rebuilt it even more 00:51:20.829 --> 00:51:22.550 and then got better and then got better. And 00:51:22.550 --> 00:51:24.510 then we, it's a huge capability that we have. 00:51:24.710 --> 00:51:28.289 And so we started fast tripping under underway 00:51:28.289 --> 00:51:33.469 vessels, opposed boardings. We got equipment, 00:51:33.670 --> 00:51:36.210 we got boats, we got everything grant driven 00:51:36.210 --> 00:51:38.269 from us. We got a lot of money to the department 00:51:38.269 --> 00:51:41.130 through grants that benefited a lot of departments. 00:51:42.429 --> 00:51:44.570 individual departments within the agency. And 00:51:44.570 --> 00:51:47.869 so you just, you got to find someone, someone, 00:51:48.030 --> 00:51:50.949 we were doing this maritime stuff and I'll give 00:51:50.949 --> 00:51:52.849 you an example of our risk management contacted 00:51:52.849 --> 00:51:55.289 me and said, Hey, we've been doing this and we're 00:51:55.289 --> 00:51:59.670 not covered insurance wise. And I went to my 00:51:59.670 --> 00:52:01.230 buddy and I was like, Oh my gosh, I never even 00:52:01.230 --> 00:52:02.789 thought of that. Cause we're just deputies, right? 00:52:02.869 --> 00:52:04.650 I'm like, I've never thought of that. Like, Oh, 00:52:04.750 --> 00:52:07.110 so they told me we're going to, we're going to 00:52:07.110 --> 00:52:09.849 purchase another addendum worth a million dollars 00:52:09.849 --> 00:52:12.349 while you guys do these exercises. And I'm like, 00:52:12.389 --> 00:52:17.110 I can't give the okay for that. I'm just a deputy. 00:52:17.849 --> 00:52:21.130 The sheriff cornered me one day and he goes, 00:52:21.190 --> 00:52:22.949 I don't know how you got them to write off on 00:52:22.949 --> 00:52:25.730 that, but good on you. Because what I did though, 00:52:25.809 --> 00:52:29.389 is I brought them out onto a boat that we were 00:52:29.389 --> 00:52:32.230 going to fast rope onto. And I sat them down 00:52:32.230 --> 00:52:35.849 and literally, and I'm not joking. Probably 15 00:52:35.849 --> 00:52:38.050 feet above their head was a Blackhawk helicopter 00:52:38.050 --> 00:52:40.230 throwing ropes out and our guys sliding down. 00:52:40.349 --> 00:52:42.269 And they just thought that was the coolest thing. 00:52:43.250 --> 00:52:45.949 But what I did to them is I said, you're on land 00:52:45.949 --> 00:52:49.650 and you call 911. How confident you feel a cop 00:52:49.650 --> 00:52:52.190 will show up? I'm like, oh, yeah. Now you're 00:52:52.190 --> 00:52:54.329 on a ferry. Washington State has the largest 00:52:54.329 --> 00:52:57.349 ferry system in the nation. Now you're on a ferry 00:52:57.349 --> 00:53:02.329 and you call 911. And they went, I don't know. 00:53:02.429 --> 00:53:05.179 I go. I didn't say me. I didn't say my buddy. 00:53:05.340 --> 00:53:07.699 I didn't say SWAT. I said, King County figured 00:53:07.699 --> 00:53:11.880 out a way to get to you and to stop it. And you 00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:13.940 would have thought I just invented like the apple 00:53:13.940 --> 00:53:15.139 seed or something. You know what I mean? They 00:53:15.139 --> 00:53:16.639 just thought that was the neatest thing. And 00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:19.320 so you gotta, it depends on how you deliver it 00:53:19.320 --> 00:53:21.280 to people too. Cause if I come up there, if just 00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:23.980 to kind of a bravado, like we need to do this, 00:53:24.059 --> 00:53:27.440 why? Just because we need to do this, that, that 00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:29.539 stuff doesn't, you're trying to build a capability. 00:53:29.579 --> 00:53:31.900 So sell it for what it's worth and give them. 00:53:32.569 --> 00:53:35.010 what you can and be professional about it. And 00:53:35.010 --> 00:53:38.789 then, you know, everyone loves cool stuff, everyone, 00:53:38.889 --> 00:53:40.849 guys and girls. And so when I brought them out 00:53:40.849 --> 00:53:43.510 on the boat, they just, they still to this day, 00:53:43.550 --> 00:53:45.429 they talk about it. They loved it, you know? 00:53:46.090 --> 00:53:50.050 So it's how you deliver things to, to get what 00:53:50.050 --> 00:53:52.530 you want. Well, back to what you were talking 00:53:52.530 --> 00:53:56.469 about, as far as borrowing the neighboring organizations, 00:53:56.909 --> 00:54:00.210 SOPs, this is what I'm seeing. Because obviously 00:54:00.210 --> 00:54:02.349 the changing the firefighter work week is not 00:54:02.349 --> 00:54:04.570 sexy. There's no Black Hawk helicopters to show 00:54:04.570 --> 00:54:07.110 people. It's just getting to understand the proactive 00:54:07.110 --> 00:54:09.670 nature of rest and recovery and health and performance. 00:54:10.329 --> 00:54:13.349 But the organizations that have gone to it, the 00:54:13.349 --> 00:54:15.289 departments that have gone to it now, I've watched 00:54:15.289 --> 00:54:18.889 them bend over backwards to share, to help other 00:54:18.889 --> 00:54:20.610 departments, you know, to say, this is what we 00:54:20.610 --> 00:54:22.860 did. You're slightly different, so you'll have 00:54:22.860 --> 00:54:25.519 to adapt to this way. But here's all the tools 00:54:25.519 --> 00:54:27.440 that we use. Here's how we presented it to our 00:54:27.440 --> 00:54:29.260 city, to our county. Here's where the hurdles 00:54:29.260 --> 00:54:31.980 were. Here's how we got around it. And it's so 00:54:31.980 --> 00:54:34.260 beautiful to watch because the opposite side 00:54:34.260 --> 00:54:37.420 of that conversation is the union president, 00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:40.239 fire chief, city or county council members, whoever 00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:43.519 the barriers are, that as you said, well, I go 00:54:43.519 --> 00:54:45.900 home at five on a Friday, so I really don't care, 00:54:46.059 --> 00:54:48.900 which I think is nauseating to me personally. 00:54:49.360 --> 00:54:51.219 that these people are making this sacrifice and 00:54:51.219 --> 00:54:52.860 away from their families and you won't even fight 00:54:52.860 --> 00:54:56.340 for them. But the rising tide lifts all ships. 00:54:56.639 --> 00:54:59.659 Where you do see the real leaders in these organizations, 00:54:59.940 --> 00:55:03.800 it's incredible watching that true brotherhood 00:55:03.800 --> 00:55:06.239 and sisterhood, the humility to ask, hey, how 00:55:06.239 --> 00:55:10.199 are you doing this? And the humility to say, 00:55:10.340 --> 00:55:12.880 well, we will share it. We want you, other departments, 00:55:12.940 --> 00:55:15.000 to get better as well. And I think that is how 00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:18.199 we change our professions for the better. Yeah. 00:55:18.750 --> 00:55:20.389 I mean, you don't want to give the keys away 00:55:20.389 --> 00:55:22.750 to your castle that you've built. Don't get me 00:55:22.750 --> 00:55:25.630 wrong. But we cross shared a bunch. There's a 00:55:25.630 --> 00:55:28.710 there's a large, pretty large school that a lot 00:55:28.710 --> 00:55:32.389 of SWAT guys go to in Arkansas. And it's a great 00:55:32.389 --> 00:55:36.010 school. And there's a little talk group that 00:55:36.010 --> 00:55:38.349 they formed all the graduates from the school. 00:55:38.849 --> 00:55:41.869 And you get on there and it's like, hey, we're 00:55:41.869 --> 00:55:44.409 trying to get Nod's night vision goggles on our 00:55:44.409 --> 00:55:47.289 team. Can somebody tell me how they approach 00:55:47.289 --> 00:55:49.469 their admin? And someone will jump in and says, 00:55:49.610 --> 00:55:51.989 hey, DM me. I'll give you everything I have. 00:55:52.050 --> 00:55:55.070 I mean, this cross -sharing is a beautiful thing 00:55:55.070 --> 00:55:57.590 because you do. You want other people to succeed 00:55:57.590 --> 00:56:00.909 at what you're doing and what you've done. And 00:56:00.909 --> 00:56:05.590 it's only for the better. And so there will be 00:56:05.590 --> 00:56:07.929 things that a department does that we're like, 00:56:07.989 --> 00:56:10.489 no, I don't want to do it that way. When we first 00:56:10.489 --> 00:56:15.869 started shooting out of the helicopter. I went 00:56:15.869 --> 00:56:19.190 to San Bernardino County Sheriff's Office and 00:56:19.190 --> 00:56:22.929 asked them for their SOP. And I took that SOP 00:56:22.929 --> 00:56:24.949 as a, as a boiler point and we started ours, 00:56:25.090 --> 00:56:28.969 you know? And so people have taken, I've, I've 00:56:28.969 --> 00:56:33.050 given out our SOPs to Alaska, you know? And so 00:56:33.050 --> 00:56:36.750 there's nothing that's detrimental in there. 00:56:36.849 --> 00:56:38.489 Nothing that's going to give the keys away to 00:56:38.489 --> 00:56:41.250 your castle, but cross -sharing to help other 00:56:41.250 --> 00:56:44.829 teams build something. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, 00:56:44.829 --> 00:56:48.789 yeah, yeah. You know, why wouldn't you? No, exactly. 00:56:49.130 --> 00:56:51.130 Exactly. I think that's it. It's humility. And 00:56:51.130 --> 00:56:52.949 I think this is the problem that I discovered 00:56:52.949 --> 00:56:57.590 really when I was transitioning out is how siloed 00:56:57.590 --> 00:57:00.590 law enforcement fire really are. And you look 00:57:00.590 --> 00:57:03.230 at, you know, you've got, it's insane. I watched 00:57:03.230 --> 00:57:04.769 it with Orange County in Orlando. You've got 00:57:04.769 --> 00:57:06.780 these departments that won't even. play with 00:57:06.780 --> 00:57:08.599 each other, won't talk to each other. You've 00:57:08.599 --> 00:57:10.880 got FD and PD that don't like each other in other 00:57:10.880 --> 00:57:13.119 areas. And it's like, how did this even happen? 00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:16.139 But again, this is egos. It's all it is because 00:57:16.139 --> 00:57:19.699 I have stood by a trailer park on a rescue, on 00:57:19.699 --> 00:57:22.960 a fire ambulance, watching a transformer start 00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:27.239 a fire in a trailer park. asking my dispatch 00:57:27.239 --> 00:57:29.579 just to send the closest unit and they're going 00:57:29.579 --> 00:57:32.400 back and forth saying whose jurisdiction it is. 00:57:32.460 --> 00:57:35.119 I can see Orlando's fire engine from where I'm 00:57:35.119 --> 00:57:37.239 standing. Just send the fucking fire engine to 00:57:37.239 --> 00:57:40.599 come put the fire out. But this is a danger when 00:57:40.599 --> 00:57:43.699 you get egos involved and we miss the mission. 00:57:44.139 --> 00:57:46.920 The mission is to protect lives, to save lives. 00:57:47.239 --> 00:57:49.420 And ego is that, well, our department's better 00:57:49.420 --> 00:57:51.659 than yours. Well, shame on you. How come you're 00:57:51.659 --> 00:57:53.639 not helping elevate that department, if that 00:57:53.639 --> 00:57:55.619 really is the case, so that you're all on the 00:57:55.619 --> 00:57:57.860 same page? So no matter where your family have 00:57:57.860 --> 00:58:01.659 their emergency, all those EMS, fire, and law 00:58:01.659 --> 00:58:04.099 enforcement agencies are prepared for that emergency. 00:58:05.269 --> 00:58:07.469 Absolutely. We cross -shared with our fire guys 00:58:07.469 --> 00:58:09.730 pretty good. We all love to joke, right? They 00:58:09.730 --> 00:58:12.190 have the best schedule in the world. They love 00:58:12.190 --> 00:58:16.349 chili, right? They love ice cream. But we started 00:58:16.349 --> 00:58:20.789 a rescue task force in our county, our team sergeant 00:58:20.789 --> 00:58:23.610 at the time with some paramedics, and it spread 00:58:23.610 --> 00:58:27.150 like wildfire. And man, there was so much pushback. 00:58:27.210 --> 00:58:29.170 We are not going to send medics or fire guys 00:58:29.170 --> 00:58:32.710 into a school shooting when the shooter is still 00:58:32.710 --> 00:58:35.670 actively in there. And we brought it all the 00:58:35.670 --> 00:58:40.289 way back to what is our job? To stop the threat 00:58:40.289 --> 00:58:43.130 and save lives. So if I can bring a protection 00:58:43.130 --> 00:58:48.070 detail in with you to start triaging why a hundred 00:58:48.070 --> 00:58:51.190 teams are out already looking for a suspect to 00:58:51.190 --> 00:58:53.429 eliminate the suspect, you know, and that built 00:58:53.429 --> 00:58:58.000 that up pretty good. And we would do. So when 00:58:58.000 --> 00:58:59.900 you guys have like a burn house for training, 00:59:00.059 --> 00:59:02.059 we would come in and do like explosive breaching 00:59:02.059 --> 00:59:04.280 on it, or we do some clearing. So we would cross 00:59:04.280 --> 00:59:08.000 share homes back and forth between fire. One 00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:09.880 of the, one of the coolest breaching techniques 00:59:09.880 --> 00:59:11.780 I've ever learned. And I hate to say this, but 00:59:11.780 --> 00:59:15.199 I learned from a firefighter and it's, it's, 00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:17.980 you could get into a door. It's a specific door, 00:59:18.059 --> 00:59:22.340 like a gymnasium outward opening metal door with 00:59:22.340 --> 00:59:24.679 a breaker bar on it. And you're on the outside 00:59:24.679 --> 00:59:26.860 and all you've got is the hand. You can't. You 00:59:26.860 --> 00:59:29.579 don't, instead of prying it and trying to pry 00:59:29.579 --> 00:59:32.559 it, but your metal beam, your center beam is 00:59:32.559 --> 00:59:35.960 metal. And then your frame is encased into concrete. 00:59:36.559 --> 00:59:39.139 So he showed me a trick with a chainsaw, just 00:59:39.139 --> 00:59:40.880 a chainsaw, how to get in and hit the breaker 00:59:40.880 --> 00:59:42.940 bar. I was like, man, and that gets you in so 00:59:42.940 --> 00:59:45.059 quick. So I give credit to the fire guys. Like, 00:59:45.059 --> 00:59:47.519 and we were all hazmat techs on our team. We 00:59:47.519 --> 00:59:49.659 had to go through the 40 hour hazmat tech. So 00:59:49.659 --> 00:59:55.210 we all had SCBAs, lion suits. And so. We did 00:59:55.210 --> 00:59:57.349 a lot of stuff. We did some control burns with, 00:59:57.409 --> 00:59:59.590 or training burns up with the fire department. 00:59:59.670 --> 01:00:01.550 They put us on the nozzles and stuff like that. 01:00:01.949 --> 01:00:05.809 And it just, we were with Seattle fire and you 01:00:05.809 --> 01:00:08.570 know, we didn't work a lot with Seattle fire, 01:00:08.730 --> 01:00:12.030 but when I talked to those guys there, they were 01:00:12.030 --> 01:00:14.289 absolutely for it. And it kind of shocked me. 01:00:14.309 --> 01:00:16.429 I didn't think that they would be for it. They 01:00:16.429 --> 01:00:18.269 even let me drive their tiller truck. I got in 01:00:18.269 --> 01:00:20.869 the back and I got to drive that thing. So it 01:00:20.869 --> 01:00:23.630 was pretty cool with the mindset of like, yeah, 01:00:23.690 --> 01:00:25.760 man. Let's go in there and save lives and put 01:00:25.760 --> 01:00:27.300 the fire out. And if you're here and there's 01:00:27.300 --> 01:00:28.980 a shooter in there still shooting at us, we can't 01:00:28.980 --> 01:00:32.199 get to the fire. So we're going to put a, a detached 01:00:32.199 --> 01:00:34.519 nozzle. I don't even know what it's called onto 01:00:34.519 --> 01:00:36.300 your armored truck. So you could get up there 01:00:36.300 --> 01:00:38.019 and you can start hitting that with, you know, 01:00:38.019 --> 01:00:40.639 where it needs to be. And then maybe take care 01:00:40.639 --> 01:00:44.599 of the, so people kind of let's solve, let's 01:00:44.599 --> 01:00:47.360 solve the problem together. Let's not fight against 01:00:47.360 --> 01:00:49.019 each other to try to solve a problem that doesn't 01:00:49.019 --> 01:00:50.079 really solve anything. You know what I mean? 01:00:50.440 --> 01:00:54.809 So, but it's a lot of, hitting your head on concrete. 01:00:55.389 --> 01:00:58.130 And it's never from the lower guys like you and 01:00:58.130 --> 01:01:00.489 I. We're like, that's cool. We're like, yeah, 01:01:00.489 --> 01:01:03.869 that's cool. Let's do this. Once you get to above 01:01:03.869 --> 01:01:08.170 in that admin stage, it's like, oh, no, I don't 01:01:08.170 --> 01:01:11.369 think so. And you hear all the why you can't 01:01:11.369 --> 01:01:13.469 and I don't knows. And then they just ghost you 01:01:13.469 --> 01:01:16.070 and they won't get back to you. And so, but like 01:01:16.070 --> 01:01:19.710 me, I'll email you every week until you get mad 01:01:19.710 --> 01:01:24.860 at me, you know? So, yeah. With the SWAT medic 01:01:24.860 --> 01:01:28.340 program, I've seen various different kind of 01:01:28.340 --> 01:01:33.420 models. And to me, the medic that's not put through 01:01:33.420 --> 01:01:35.420 the law enforcement side, so therefore can't 01:01:35.420 --> 01:01:38.559 carry a sidearm, and therefore is almost in a 01:01:38.559 --> 01:01:42.380 very warm area in that scenario, didn't make 01:01:42.380 --> 01:01:44.599 perfect sense to me. It seemed like if you're 01:01:44.599 --> 01:01:46.139 going to put them in, of course, the medic isn't 01:01:46.139 --> 01:01:47.900 kicking the door in, you know, and point man 01:01:47.900 --> 01:01:52.070 or anything. to have the ability to have a weapon 01:01:52.070 --> 01:01:54.050 even though you're there functioning as a medical 01:01:54.050 --> 01:01:57.690 capability to me seemed to make the most sense 01:01:57.690 --> 01:02:00.110 of all the different models which one did you 01:02:00.110 --> 01:02:02.650 guys have and and was that the ideal one in your 01:02:02.650 --> 01:02:06.670 eyes no it wasn't it was uh your job is to save 01:02:06.670 --> 01:02:09.469 lives my job is to protect you and so one task 01:02:09.469 --> 01:02:12.150 one guy you know and so we left it with that 01:02:12.150 --> 01:02:14.130 and the paramedics that went in on the art the 01:02:14.130 --> 01:02:16.670 rescue task force they were not armed they would 01:02:16.670 --> 01:02:19.489 have vests right? Extra with plates and stuff. 01:02:19.730 --> 01:02:24.570 And so, we worked alongside, we worked alongside 01:02:24.570 --> 01:02:27.809 our paramedics where we were able to bring canines 01:02:27.809 --> 01:02:31.829 and paramedics onto a opposed boarding on a maritime 01:02:31.829 --> 01:02:35.889 situation. And so, because we brought on all 01:02:35.889 --> 01:02:39.619 the shooters and the breachers, but we didn't 01:02:39.619 --> 01:02:41.139 have any canines. So we learned a way to get 01:02:41.139 --> 01:02:42.920 canines. I learned that from the Canadians up 01:02:42.920 --> 01:02:44.980 there going to that week -long school I went 01:02:44.980 --> 01:02:48.219 to. And then we also built into like, well, when 01:02:48.219 --> 01:02:50.159 we're here, there's people that are injured. 01:02:50.619 --> 01:02:52.840 Shouldn't we be fast roping paramedics in with 01:02:52.840 --> 01:02:55.739 us so they can triage these people? And so they 01:02:55.739 --> 01:02:57.900 had a very specific task to do and we had a very 01:02:57.900 --> 01:03:01.280 specific task to do. And so we just came up with 01:03:01.280 --> 01:03:06.159 the rescue task force where they would do the 01:03:06.159 --> 01:03:09.789 triage and we would protect them. so they're 01:03:09.789 --> 01:03:12.730 not trying to use their firearm but treat a patient 01:03:12.730 --> 01:03:14.710 you know i mean they're going back and forth 01:03:14.710 --> 01:03:17.389 well this wasn't this wasn't by any means in 01:03:17.389 --> 01:03:19.710 engaging the shooter unless everything went to 01:03:19.710 --> 01:03:22.409 shit and now you're not unarmed in the worst 01:03:22.409 --> 01:03:25.730 case scenario right and so but we're never going 01:03:25.730 --> 01:03:27.130 to leave you alone where you're in a position 01:03:27.130 --> 01:03:29.030 where you may have to fight we'll fight for you 01:03:29.030 --> 01:03:33.230 is what we came up with um and so it ran pretty 01:03:33.230 --> 01:03:36.190 good and there are some smaller teams that have 01:03:36.190 --> 01:03:39.289 their paramedics that go through a, a qualification 01:03:39.289 --> 01:03:42.130 course to carry a firearm. I don't see any problem 01:03:42.130 --> 01:03:43.510 with that. Right. As long as they know their 01:03:43.510 --> 01:03:46.489 primary role. And there's other ones that their 01:03:46.489 --> 01:03:49.610 admin or absolutely won't let them carry a gun, 01:03:49.989 --> 01:03:52.849 you know, so they may want to carry a gun, but 01:03:52.849 --> 01:03:57.530 their admin won't let them. And so, but I would 01:03:57.530 --> 01:04:00.650 say whoever saves the victim and kills the shooter 01:04:00.650 --> 01:04:03.369 and gets out and everyone's alive has a good 01:04:03.369 --> 01:04:07.269 program. You know what I mean? So. You can do 01:04:07.269 --> 01:04:09.969 it both ways. Well, speaking of that, before 01:04:09.969 --> 01:04:13.989 we kind of transition to CrossFit, when you again 01:04:13.989 --> 01:04:16.230 look back now, I mean, we've had decades now 01:04:16.230 --> 01:04:19.269 of this horrendous issue with so many murders 01:04:19.269 --> 01:04:23.730 in our schools. What, in your opinion, is the 01:04:23.730 --> 01:04:26.510 best model as far as the prevention side and 01:04:26.510 --> 01:04:29.289 then any takeaways as far as the responding units? 01:04:30.429 --> 01:04:31.949 Well, I'll tell you the prevention right now 01:04:31.949 --> 01:04:34.579 that I've preached my whole career. You put a 01:04:34.579 --> 01:04:36.219 cop in every single school and you publicize 01:04:36.219 --> 01:04:39.179 it. People do not go to hard targets and try 01:04:39.179 --> 01:04:41.380 to fight because they know there's opposition 01:04:41.380 --> 01:04:44.139 there. If you look at all of our celebrities, 01:04:44.320 --> 01:04:46.119 if you look at all of our governmental officials, 01:04:46.340 --> 01:04:48.920 what do they have around them? Security, right? 01:04:49.539 --> 01:04:51.139 And so you have your one -offs, you have your 01:04:51.139 --> 01:04:52.940 attempts on your assassinations of your presidents 01:04:52.940 --> 01:04:54.800 and stuff like that. So, but they're very far 01:04:54.800 --> 01:05:00.809 few in between. But if you... Are someone that 01:05:00.809 --> 01:05:03.789 wants to do ill and you want easy targets, you 01:05:03.789 --> 01:05:06.610 will walk into a school, you will walk into a 01:05:06.610 --> 01:05:09.730 church, you will walk into a preschool because 01:05:09.730 --> 01:05:13.489 you know nobody will oppose you. Once you know 01:05:13.489 --> 01:05:15.329 that someone is going to oppose you and offer 01:05:15.329 --> 01:05:17.849 a fight against you, you will second guess your 01:05:17.849 --> 01:05:20.809 target. And that's what it is. So I've always 01:05:20.809 --> 01:05:23.170 said, put your money where your mouth is. Put 01:05:23.170 --> 01:05:26.070 a cop in every single school in the U .S. Every 01:05:26.070 --> 01:05:29.170 single school. Pay for it, but publicize it. 01:05:29.500 --> 01:05:33.260 Watch your shootings go way down, like way down. 01:05:34.659 --> 01:05:38.840 But it always comes back to money. It always 01:05:38.840 --> 01:05:42.739 comes back to money. And so some schools are 01:05:42.739 --> 01:05:45.119 very large where they would need like maybe two 01:05:45.119 --> 01:05:48.599 officers. But and then they gave us this bad 01:05:48.599 --> 01:05:52.000 plague. We don't want cops in schools. Like we've 01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:54.139 allowed people to think that cops are bad. And 01:05:54.139 --> 01:06:00.239 this whole in 2020, 2021. put this false narrative 01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:02.480 out that we're just out randomly shooting and 01:06:02.480 --> 01:06:04.559 killing people for just funds and giggles. And 01:06:04.559 --> 01:06:06.340 it's not true. And everyone knew it wasn't true. 01:06:06.400 --> 01:06:07.940 And they had the stats are there, but no one 01:06:07.940 --> 01:06:09.460 would ever look at the stats through the FBI 01:06:09.460 --> 01:06:12.460 that they carried because they knew what it showed. 01:06:12.980 --> 01:06:15.260 So they went based off feeling, and then they 01:06:15.260 --> 01:06:17.800 allowed other generations to be raised up into 01:06:17.800 --> 01:06:21.400 this. Oh, I just hate cops. Why? Cops are human. 01:06:21.559 --> 01:06:24.960 They do, they do things that are not right. If 01:06:24.960 --> 01:06:27.409 you go to another cop and say, Hey, This guy 01:06:27.409 --> 01:06:30.829 just committed a felony. You're going to stick 01:06:30.829 --> 01:06:33.889 by him, right? Thin blue line. No, you don't 01:06:33.889 --> 01:06:35.789 get to be a cop and commit a crime, dude. Expect 01:06:35.789 --> 01:06:38.469 me to protect you. We've had those discussions 01:06:38.469 --> 01:06:41.570 many times through my career with guys I've worked 01:06:41.570 --> 01:06:43.510 with. I am not going to ruin my career for something 01:06:43.510 --> 01:06:45.110 that you do. And I'm not going to lie for you. 01:06:45.150 --> 01:06:48.210 So don't do it. But it doesn't mean that I'm 01:06:48.210 --> 01:06:49.690 not going to back you and do everything we need 01:06:49.690 --> 01:06:52.809 to do. But you don't get to commit a crime and 01:06:52.809 --> 01:06:56.469 then ask me to like lie for you. or ask me to 01:06:56.469 --> 01:07:00.510 not say something. I've seen guys lose their 01:07:00.510 --> 01:07:06.110 job over taking $20 from a traffic stop out of 01:07:06.110 --> 01:07:10.030 a guy's wallet. And another cop knew it, but 01:07:10.030 --> 01:07:11.909 he said nothing about it and said, oh, I don't, 01:07:11.909 --> 01:07:14.010 I didn't know. Well, they fired him. Like you 01:07:14.010 --> 01:07:17.309 just lost your job for some dude's dumb decision. 01:07:17.610 --> 01:07:19.650 And so should he be fired for taking money from 01:07:19.650 --> 01:07:22.110 somebody? Yeah. We've had, we've had millions 01:07:22.110 --> 01:07:24.190 of dollars laid out in front of us. and drugs 01:07:24.190 --> 01:07:27.110 and kilos. And that's just the nice thing about 01:07:27.110 --> 01:07:29.949 where I came from and how I was raised is my 01:07:29.949 --> 01:07:32.750 dad always told me, it doesn't bother me. It's 01:07:32.750 --> 01:07:36.030 not my money. You know, I never, because you'll 01:07:36.030 --> 01:07:37.510 arrest some people and they'll be like, come 01:07:37.510 --> 01:07:39.730 on, man, you've been tempted. Come on, you've 01:07:39.730 --> 01:07:41.610 been tempted. I'm like, no, I haven't. It's not 01:07:41.610 --> 01:07:44.230 my money. What would I do with a kilo of cocaine? 01:07:44.590 --> 01:07:47.010 You could sell it. Like, no, I couldn't. I'm 01:07:47.010 --> 01:07:49.010 not, you know what I mean? Yeah, you know what 01:07:49.010 --> 01:07:50.849 I mean? It's just like this fantasy. They watch 01:07:50.849 --> 01:07:54.400 too much TV. And if you watch TV, you know, all 01:07:54.400 --> 01:07:57.000 the cops, now cops do do bad things because they're 01:07:57.000 --> 01:08:00.019 human, but they need to be weeded out just like 01:08:00.019 --> 01:08:02.780 any, like doctors or lawyers or anything else 01:08:02.780 --> 01:08:04.739 that do things that are unethical, you know? 01:08:05.260 --> 01:08:10.039 But yeah, crazy. What about, because you had 01:08:10.039 --> 01:08:13.099 quite a unique lens as far as the part of the 01:08:13.099 --> 01:08:16.680 country that seemed to be very deeply entrenched 01:08:16.680 --> 01:08:20.279 in the defund pushback of that era. What did 01:08:20.279 --> 01:08:22.600 you see with your own eyes or hear from your 01:08:22.600 --> 01:08:25.359 men and women as far as the negative impact of 01:08:25.359 --> 01:08:30.180 that anti -cop movement that we had? Well, you 01:08:30.180 --> 01:08:32.859 see crime rates shoot up. Other people go in 01:08:32.859 --> 01:08:35.319 to get hurt and victims that don't need to be 01:08:35.319 --> 01:08:39.699 because of that. So that just caused a certain 01:08:39.699 --> 01:08:41.920 amount of crimes to go up. And the data is there 01:08:41.920 --> 01:08:45.159 and it shows that it went up. And politician 01:08:45.159 --> 01:08:47.079 A will get in front of a camera and say, no, 01:08:47.119 --> 01:08:48.520 no, no, no, they're down because they'll twist 01:08:48.520 --> 01:08:50.800 stats and stuff like that. But no, they're up. 01:08:50.880 --> 01:08:52.840 And we all knew they were up and we all knew 01:08:52.840 --> 01:08:54.779 what was going to happen when they did this. 01:08:55.500 --> 01:09:00.079 But then, you know, it's hard for you to go out 01:09:00.079 --> 01:09:03.020 every day and think you're doing something for 01:09:03.020 --> 01:09:06.300 the betterment of good. All to go home and hear 01:09:06.300 --> 01:09:10.039 someone from your admin or someone from your 01:09:10.039 --> 01:09:15.340 county talk down on you, you know. And I don't 01:09:15.340 --> 01:09:17.119 care how strong you are, that eats your soul 01:09:17.119 --> 01:09:18.720 a little bit when you turn on the news and just 01:09:18.720 --> 01:09:21.920 see the compounding effect on law enforcement. 01:09:22.000 --> 01:09:23.960 And then they play race against race, you know, 01:09:23.960 --> 01:09:25.880 this, and then they do this tit for tat. They 01:09:25.880 --> 01:09:28.319 never listen or they never list like what the 01:09:28.319 --> 01:09:33.220 crime was. They just play that this guy looked 01:09:33.220 --> 01:09:35.060 like this and this guy looked like this. And 01:09:35.060 --> 01:09:36.279 then they leave that alone and they know what 01:09:36.279 --> 01:09:38.039 they're doing. They're causing controversy. And 01:09:38.039 --> 01:09:40.960 then they, this extremism, right, that we talked 01:09:40.960 --> 01:09:44.380 about earlier and people attached to that. The 01:09:44.380 --> 01:09:46.739 people that do nothing sit at home and they're 01:09:46.739 --> 01:09:50.600 just like, yeah, yeah, those cops are bad. You 01:09:50.600 --> 01:09:53.060 know what I mean? So it's like, I've told many 01:09:53.060 --> 01:09:55.579 people that I've had many discussions with people 01:09:55.579 --> 01:09:57.539 on the street in downtown Seattle, in the hood. 01:09:57.819 --> 01:09:59.640 And I tell them, have you ever done a ride along 01:09:59.640 --> 01:10:03.479 with a cop? I said, you should. You should go 01:10:03.479 --> 01:10:05.399 do a ride along with a cop. Don't expect anything 01:10:05.399 --> 01:10:07.020 from it. Just go do a ride along. You can do 01:10:07.020 --> 01:10:11.159 a couple hours, four hours, you know, and then 01:10:11.159 --> 01:10:13.840 come back and talk to me. But see, when you make 01:10:13.840 --> 01:10:15.899 them come up with a little bit of ownership, 01:10:16.239 --> 01:10:18.199 they don't want to do that. They just rather 01:10:18.199 --> 01:10:20.579 just talk off emotion. So the people that talk 01:10:20.579 --> 01:10:23.119 off emotion, I just don't have time for you because 01:10:23.119 --> 01:10:24.880 you're not willing to get to a betterment solution 01:10:24.880 --> 01:10:33.460 or have another way of solving something. You 01:10:33.460 --> 01:10:37.699 see what I'm saying? everyone's different. Everyone's 01:10:37.699 --> 01:10:39.380 got their own little voice. Everyone wants to 01:10:39.380 --> 01:10:40.899 get heard. And some people just want to yell 01:10:40.899 --> 01:10:43.479 at you, you know, and then they feel better about 01:10:43.479 --> 01:10:45.560 themselves and they go home and eat zucchini 01:10:45.560 --> 01:10:48.699 or whatever they eat. I don't know. You know, 01:10:48.739 --> 01:10:53.020 uh, uh, we had a, we had, we, where we were at 01:10:53.020 --> 01:10:56.220 in the County where I was at it, we had backwoods 01:10:56.220 --> 01:11:00.239 guys, uh, residents to inner city residents. 01:11:00.640 --> 01:11:04.279 So you had contrasting with even within the County. 01:11:04.399 --> 01:11:09.000 And so you could be talking to some backwoods 01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:11.100 redneck. And I don't mean that in a bad term 01:11:11.100 --> 01:11:14.739 because I like rednecks and, or, you know, and 01:11:14.739 --> 01:11:16.239 then you go back in the inner city and you got 01:11:16.239 --> 01:11:18.060 somebody as a part of the gang member that's 01:11:18.060 --> 01:11:20.159 in the inner city, you know, and how do you, 01:11:20.180 --> 01:11:22.079 how are you able to communicate between the two 01:11:22.079 --> 01:11:27.359 of them? You know? So, yeah. I remember the second 01:11:27.359 --> 01:11:30.439 last apartment I worked for neighboring, like 01:11:30.439 --> 01:11:32.840 almost buttoned up with each other was just like 01:11:32.840 --> 01:11:34.479 you were talking about, you know, very, very 01:11:34.479 --> 01:11:38.460 kind of, impoverished trailer park uh you know 01:11:38.460 --> 01:11:41.079 country very white area and then that butted 01:11:41.079 --> 01:11:44.220 up against um another area that was very very 01:11:44.220 --> 01:11:46.020 densely populated especially with people with 01:11:46.020 --> 01:11:49.880 haitian backgrounds and so very similar kind 01:11:49.880 --> 01:11:53.359 of activity in different ways and it is irrelevant 01:11:53.359 --> 01:11:55.800 of their skin color what the issue was was poverty 01:11:56.390 --> 01:11:59.270 Both groups were poor, and so therefore you saw 01:11:59.270 --> 01:12:02.090 similar behaviors. But you didn't see that conversation 01:12:02.090 --> 01:12:07.229 in post -2020, in the pro or cons, addressing 01:12:07.229 --> 01:12:10.050 underlying mental health issues and poverty and 01:12:10.050 --> 01:12:13.010 education and trying to stop the domino effect 01:12:13.010 --> 01:12:15.430 of trauma so that we can start bringing cohesion 01:12:15.430 --> 01:12:19.470 back into households again. None of that. I will 01:12:19.470 --> 01:12:20.890 tell you, from the people that I've talked to 01:12:20.890 --> 01:12:23.369 on the streets, more people believed and understood 01:12:23.369 --> 01:12:26.560 and agreed with what we were doing. Than what 01:12:26.560 --> 01:12:29.800 you would see on TV. I'm sure, you know? Yeah. 01:12:30.399 --> 01:12:33.760 A hundred percent. All right. Well, we're pivoting 01:12:33.760 --> 01:12:38.100 now to a different topic. I came across CrossFit 01:12:38.100 --> 01:12:42.020 in about 2006. So kind of early before it was 01:12:42.020 --> 01:12:45.600 cool, as they say with one of my, my friends, 01:12:45.640 --> 01:12:47.600 Neil, who was an Anaheim firefighter, he worked 01:12:47.600 --> 01:12:50.220 at a CrossFit Marina in Huntington beach. And 01:12:50.220 --> 01:12:52.689 so he came back and he had this like. cannonball 01:12:52.689 --> 01:12:55.449 with a handle like for elderly pirates and some 01:12:55.449 --> 01:12:57.029 other things and we're like what the fuck is 01:12:57.029 --> 01:12:59.810 all this and you know so we yeah i'll try your 01:12:59.810 --> 01:13:02.949 stupid workout and at the end i was like all 01:13:02.949 --> 01:13:05.510 right i need to do this this was absolutely awful 01:13:05.510 --> 01:13:08.270 and i was sold and and all the way through to 01:13:08.270 --> 01:13:10.590 about two years ago we shifted our programming 01:13:10.590 --> 01:13:14.670 a little bit i saw the the incredible benefits 01:13:14.670 --> 01:13:18.500 for my profession and the crossfit training so 01:13:18.500 --> 01:13:20.699 how did you come across that particular kind 01:13:20.699 --> 01:13:22.960 of modality and then talk to me about how much 01:13:22.960 --> 01:13:27.380 it impacted your life we uh were talking and 01:13:27.380 --> 01:13:31.939 it was uh hey these navy seal guys are doing 01:13:31.939 --> 01:13:35.680 this uh thing called crossfit it's out of california 01:13:35.680 --> 01:13:41.319 um i don't know so we looked up a CrossFit gym 01:13:41.319 --> 01:13:44.119 and it was the, I think it's now it's the oldest 01:13:44.119 --> 01:13:46.479 affiliate in the world. It's out of Puyallup, 01:13:46.500 --> 01:13:51.640 Washington. Rainier CrossFit. We joined Rainier 01:13:51.640 --> 01:13:54.180 CrossFit and it was $50 a month. And we were 01:13:54.180 --> 01:13:57.739 like, oh my gosh, this is so expensive. And that 01:13:57.739 --> 01:14:04.159 was 2005. And so we did the workouts and it just 01:14:04.159 --> 01:14:08.079 blew me away. I'd never done anything like it. 01:14:08.720 --> 01:14:10.840 And some things like farmer's carries, like what 01:14:10.840 --> 01:14:13.180 you, you know, like farm strength or farm, you 01:14:13.180 --> 01:14:15.260 do stuff on the ranch and stuff like that. But 01:14:15.260 --> 01:14:18.640 it's like the cleans and all this stuff and combining 01:14:18.640 --> 01:14:20.340 it with the deadlifts and stuff like that. It 01:14:20.340 --> 01:14:24.439 was crazy. And then we just kept going back and 01:14:24.439 --> 01:14:26.680 doing it. And then we were doing two workouts 01:14:26.680 --> 01:14:31.479 in a day. And that about killed me. But it was 01:14:31.479 --> 01:14:33.439 very, very, very functional for what we did on 01:14:33.439 --> 01:14:36.380 SWAT. And I did it. We joined because of SWAT. 01:14:36.939 --> 01:14:41.979 And so. My daughters were seven and nine and 01:14:41.979 --> 01:14:46.460 I got them involved in it to do just like body 01:14:46.460 --> 01:14:49.880 weight movement and stuff like that. And as they 01:14:49.880 --> 01:14:52.159 grew up, we just started adding more weight. 01:14:52.239 --> 01:14:55.720 We did a lot of research on body development 01:14:55.720 --> 01:14:58.399 for young kids, lifting weights, which there 01:14:58.399 --> 01:15:00.579 was this old brain that you couldn't do it and 01:15:00.579 --> 01:15:04.520 it was all quashed. And they got into it enough 01:15:04.520 --> 01:15:09.800 where I think it was 14. My daughter did her 01:15:09.800 --> 01:15:12.880 first competition in Houston, Texas, and then 01:15:12.880 --> 01:15:17.640 they started competing after that. And so we've 01:15:17.640 --> 01:15:22.220 been off and running and they've been, they worked 01:15:22.220 --> 01:15:26.680 great for my job and they just got into the competitive 01:15:26.680 --> 01:15:31.319 side of it. And it, I mean, they just, we're 01:15:31.319 --> 01:15:33.659 training, you know, two or three times a day 01:15:33.659 --> 01:15:39.539 now for them. So. How old are they now? 21 and 01:15:39.539 --> 01:15:43.680 19. And so they do the CrossFit Open every year. 01:15:43.800 --> 01:15:45.659 And we're looking for measurement skills. We're 01:15:45.659 --> 01:15:47.319 looking for measurement of you're better than 01:15:47.319 --> 01:15:49.300 you were last year. Each year has to be better 01:15:49.300 --> 01:15:52.380 than last year or something's wrong. And then 01:15:52.380 --> 01:15:56.680 they'll do, we're flying to Spokane, Washington, 01:15:56.939 --> 01:16:00.699 the beginning of January to do a comp. James 01:16:00.699 --> 01:16:03.720 Sprague is putting on competition there. He's 01:16:03.720 --> 01:16:06.579 a CrossFit Games athlete. He won the games in 01:16:06.579 --> 01:16:08.659 2024, but we've known him. We've worked out with 01:16:08.659 --> 01:16:12.220 him before. And then come back from there, and 01:16:12.220 --> 01:16:14.619 then we go to just outside of Austin, Texas, 01:16:14.680 --> 01:16:16.720 the end of January for another big competition. 01:16:17.359 --> 01:16:22.619 And then they made Team USA five years ago. And 01:16:22.619 --> 01:16:26.199 so we've been to Sweden, Norway, Mexico, Canada, 01:16:26.380 --> 01:16:29.500 Budapest, and they've competed in the IF3 Worlds 01:16:29.500 --> 01:16:34.319 there. And we didn't go this year because of 01:16:34.319 --> 01:16:37.930 logistics. The whole team didn't go. And so we're 01:16:37.930 --> 01:16:39.829 going to go next year. And I don't know where 01:16:39.829 --> 01:16:42.289 it's going to be at yet, though. What really 01:16:42.289 --> 01:16:44.789 became apparent to me when I moved to America 01:16:44.789 --> 01:16:47.970 is how many Uncle Ricos I met. And what I mean 01:16:47.970 --> 01:16:50.710 is, you know, men in their late 20s, early 30s. 01:16:50.710 --> 01:16:52.789 And it was always this I could have, would have, 01:16:52.789 --> 01:16:55.470 should have if it wasn't for my ACL, my labrum, 01:16:55.510 --> 01:16:59.329 insert destroyed joint here. And I started going, 01:16:59.449 --> 01:17:01.609 well, what the hell are we doing to children 01:17:01.609 --> 01:17:04.020 in this country? You know, because where I grew 01:17:04.020 --> 01:17:06.439 up, the era I grew up, at least no one was playing 01:17:06.439 --> 01:17:08.539 at a high, high level unless they were being 01:17:08.539 --> 01:17:10.840 farmed to be, you know, the England football 01:17:10.840 --> 01:17:15.300 team or the best athletes obviously would just 01:17:15.300 --> 01:17:17.340 rise to the top and then they would be, you know, 01:17:17.340 --> 01:17:19.779 trying out for these teams and off they go. But 01:17:19.779 --> 01:17:22.159 the rest of us were just playing. And so there 01:17:22.159 --> 01:17:24.819 was no steep drop off between graduate and school. 01:17:25.659 --> 01:17:27.779 And the rest of adulthood, we just kept playing, 01:17:27.800 --> 01:17:29.560 you know, pub leagues or just, you know, kicking 01:17:29.560 --> 01:17:31.800 the ball around the park or, you know, whatever 01:17:31.800 --> 01:17:34.479 it was. And what I realized is that there was 01:17:34.479 --> 01:17:38.140 this kind of dark side of American sports where 01:17:38.140 --> 01:17:41.260 the performance of a child was more important 01:17:41.260 --> 01:17:44.239 than the health and longevity of a child. So 01:17:44.239 --> 01:17:47.060 if, you know, talk to me if you have any kind 01:17:47.060 --> 01:17:49.399 of perspective of that at all in this world, 01:17:49.420 --> 01:17:51.640 and then how were you able to avoid that through 01:17:51.640 --> 01:17:53.880 this incremental training that you've used with 01:17:53.880 --> 01:17:58.270 your daughters? I guess better described on how 01:17:58.270 --> 01:18:02.510 I just raised my kids. And so I have done things 01:18:02.510 --> 01:18:06.250 in my life that I'm very proud of. I do not need 01:18:06.250 --> 01:18:09.229 to relive my life in front of my own kids because 01:18:09.229 --> 01:18:12.869 they were part of what I've done. And so I've 01:18:12.869 --> 01:18:14.850 always said, be proud of what you've done and 01:18:14.850 --> 01:18:19.369 who you are. Once you've met that mark, then 01:18:19.369 --> 01:18:21.069 you build others to be what they need to be. 01:18:21.470 --> 01:18:23.449 And so, like I said earlier, with the kids growing 01:18:23.449 --> 01:18:27.689 into a family, that's their first team. My wife 01:18:27.689 --> 01:18:33.850 played college ball soccer competitively. She 01:18:33.850 --> 01:18:36.350 got recruited to a college and then she played, 01:18:36.409 --> 01:18:39.569 you know, high school select soccer is what they 01:18:39.569 --> 01:18:44.729 call it. And so, we put three things on a piece 01:18:44.729 --> 01:18:46.949 of paper when I talked to my daughters. Probably, 01:18:48.010 --> 01:18:53.449 they were probably 10. and 12 and we said they 01:18:53.449 --> 01:18:54.970 wrote down the three things that they want to 01:18:54.970 --> 01:18:58.890 do in life soccer crossfit and horses and i said 01:18:58.890 --> 01:19:01.810 now prioritize them and they both put crossfit 01:19:01.810 --> 01:19:04.829 as number one the reason i started them in crossfit 01:19:04.829 --> 01:19:08.050 was to build their hips and knee joints and ligaments 01:19:08.050 --> 01:19:10.569 to strengthen them for soccer because they were 01:19:10.569 --> 01:19:13.170 both playing soccer and so my wife has had three 01:19:13.170 --> 01:19:16.750 knee surgeries um and so they put crossfit as 01:19:16.750 --> 01:19:18.970 number one so what we did is we took what they 01:19:18.970 --> 01:19:22.060 said they wanted And we started going with it. 01:19:22.079 --> 01:19:24.260 And then we started training. And then we started 01:19:24.260 --> 01:19:26.920 doing competitions. And then it just kind of 01:19:26.920 --> 01:19:32.520 grew from there. This whole time, it's kind of 01:19:32.520 --> 01:19:35.899 a running joke. I'll go in the gym, and I always 01:19:35.899 --> 01:19:38.180 get the dudes. They're like, hey, man, you let 01:19:38.180 --> 01:19:39.779 your daughters outlift you. I said, they can't 01:19:39.779 --> 01:19:44.420 outlift me. They're 19 and 21. I cannot back 01:19:44.420 --> 01:19:46.460 squat with my 21 -year -old daughter back squats. 01:19:46.619 --> 01:19:49.630 I'm sorry. I don't need to tell them I've had 01:19:49.630 --> 01:19:52.189 21 surgeries or anything like that. I just, it 01:19:52.189 --> 01:19:54.510 doesn't bother me. And so everyone thinks I'm 01:19:54.510 --> 01:19:56.170 being put down by my own daughters. I'm like, 01:19:56.189 --> 01:19:57.890 and I always tell them, I'm like, how do you 01:19:57.890 --> 01:20:00.109 think they got that way? Who do you think built 01:20:00.109 --> 01:20:03.770 them to be like that? I did, you know. But I 01:20:03.770 --> 01:20:06.630 don't need to thrust upon them of what I have 01:20:06.630 --> 01:20:10.869 done. Now, I use my experience as examples when 01:20:10.869 --> 01:20:13.109 we're training and building them up to do something, 01:20:13.189 --> 01:20:16.869 right? How to overcome something and things that 01:20:16.869 --> 01:20:21.579 I've gone through. They just stayed with it. 01:20:21.600 --> 01:20:23.500 They picked it. They said they wanted it. So 01:20:23.500 --> 01:20:25.279 they showed ownership to it. And then we just 01:20:25.279 --> 01:20:27.859 stayed on it. And then as things progress, they 01:20:27.859 --> 01:20:30.359 say, Hey, I want to compete here. Hey, I want 01:20:30.359 --> 01:20:32.340 to do here. And I've told them all along, you 01:20:32.340 --> 01:20:34.960 could quit CrossFit at any time. I don't care, 01:20:35.079 --> 01:20:38.659 but you need to pick something else and stay 01:20:38.659 --> 01:20:41.680 with that. You know? So there was kind of a, 01:20:41.699 --> 01:20:44.739 there was kind of priorities that we had in our 01:20:44.739 --> 01:20:50.479 household is Priority number one is family comes 01:20:50.479 --> 01:20:53.439 first. Respectful and family will always come 01:20:53.439 --> 01:20:55.840 first. Number two, do good in school. Number 01:20:55.840 --> 01:20:57.399 three, whatever you do, I don't care what it 01:20:57.399 --> 01:21:00.760 is, don't quit. Give 100 % towards it. And so 01:21:00.760 --> 01:21:03.380 they just kind of got into that, and we got approached 01:21:03.380 --> 01:21:06.979 for the Team USA IF3 World stuff, started doing 01:21:06.979 --> 01:21:08.939 that, started traveling with that, and then these 01:21:08.939 --> 01:21:11.359 higher -end competitions, and we're still pushing 01:21:11.359 --> 01:21:13.750 the envelope on that. Because there's a ton of 01:21:13.750 --> 01:21:15.810 people that are still stronger and faster and 01:21:15.810 --> 01:21:17.909 better than you. But we look at measurement tools 01:21:17.909 --> 01:21:22.069 of growth each year. And if, like I said, if 01:21:22.069 --> 01:21:24.229 we get better each year, there's growth there. 01:21:24.329 --> 01:21:26.750 Now I look at the measured growth. If it's too 01:21:26.750 --> 01:21:29.149 small, we need to jump it up a little bit. But 01:21:29.149 --> 01:21:32.210 what we didn't do is we didn't put them on such 01:21:32.210 --> 01:21:35.210 a mental regimen of you need to be up at 5 a 01:21:35.210 --> 01:21:36.949 .m. your first workout. Then you come and eat 01:21:36.949 --> 01:21:38.890 broccoli and chicken and you go back out and 01:21:38.890 --> 01:21:41.689 you're taking that. What happens is. You can 01:21:41.689 --> 01:21:45.090 become a phenom and you will be the head of everybody. 01:21:45.170 --> 01:21:48.210 And you can be a podium stander for multiple 01:21:48.210 --> 01:21:51.289 times, but it won't last long. And we've watched 01:21:51.289 --> 01:21:55.489 many people over the years quit the sport. And 01:21:55.489 --> 01:21:57.729 it's not because of their physical attributes, 01:21:57.930 --> 01:21:59.449 but it's because of their mental attributes. 01:21:59.729 --> 01:22:01.689 They just couldn't keep that regimen up because 01:22:01.689 --> 01:22:04.770 it weighs heavy on the brain. So we said, hey, 01:22:04.890 --> 01:22:08.170 we'll take longer to get there, but we're going 01:22:08.170 --> 01:22:10.090 to let your mind rest a little bit. And so they 01:22:10.090 --> 01:22:11.979 eat what they want. Everyone thinks we're on 01:22:11.979 --> 01:22:13.939 a diet. We don't diet. They eat what they want, 01:22:13.979 --> 01:22:16.119 but they're very selective. Those girls will 01:22:16.119 --> 01:22:19.180 not eat fast food, will not do it. We'll be starving 01:22:19.180 --> 01:22:21.239 on the drive somewhere and they will not stop. 01:22:21.520 --> 01:22:22.859 You know what I mean? They just won't do it. 01:22:22.979 --> 01:22:25.880 So they know what to eat. They look at more macros 01:22:25.880 --> 01:22:29.279 than the macros that they have. They take their 01:22:29.279 --> 01:22:31.560 supplement protein, creatine and stuff. Other 01:22:31.560 --> 01:22:33.020 than that, everything's natural. We don't do 01:22:33.020 --> 01:22:35.880 anything. It's just the creatine and the protein 01:22:35.880 --> 01:22:38.760 for them. And then the training and then their 01:22:38.760 --> 01:22:42.550 sleep. And so we travel. We'd go to one or two 01:22:42.550 --> 01:22:44.930 countries every single year with them. And so 01:22:44.930 --> 01:22:48.609 it lets them see the world, enjoy, you know, 01:22:48.609 --> 01:22:50.329 and they eat what they want when they're over 01:22:50.329 --> 01:22:51.689 there and stuff, but they know what they have 01:22:51.689 --> 01:22:54.390 to do. So you're going to take a little bit longer 01:22:54.390 --> 01:22:56.909 to get where you want to go. But besides all 01:22:56.909 --> 01:22:58.949 that, and if they ever, never make it to the 01:22:58.949 --> 01:23:00.550 CrossFit Games and they never make it on the 01:23:00.550 --> 01:23:03.770 podium, what you've just done is you've built 01:23:03.770 --> 01:23:07.229 an awesome human being in the process. And so 01:23:07.229 --> 01:23:09.409 my thing is that through strength, you will build 01:23:09.409 --> 01:23:11.819 compassion. And once they're both phenomenal 01:23:11.819 --> 01:23:14.880 coaches, so they coach. We got down here in Texas 01:23:14.880 --> 01:23:17.000 and they're trying to work with athletes down 01:23:17.000 --> 01:23:20.100 here, primarily focusing now more towards like 01:23:20.100 --> 01:23:22.739 rodeo athletes, because when I rodeoed, you just 01:23:22.739 --> 01:23:24.899 kind of cowboyed up and just rode and sucked 01:23:24.899 --> 01:23:29.039 up the pain. Now they realize the healthier the 01:23:29.039 --> 01:23:32.699 body is in the mind, their turn, their longevity 01:23:32.699 --> 01:23:35.460 in the sport goes longer minus a catastrophic 01:23:35.460 --> 01:23:38.399 injury. Right. So. They're going to be offering 01:23:38.399 --> 01:23:40.560 up to some bull riders, and they've already given 01:23:40.560 --> 01:23:42.979 their cards out to guys that ride bulls and rough 01:23:42.979 --> 01:23:46.979 stock. And they think just stretching and doing 01:23:46.979 --> 01:23:50.159 some jumping jacks is okay. What these girls 01:23:50.159 --> 01:23:55.579 know now, and they're both coaches through CrossFit 01:23:55.579 --> 01:23:59.579 and Olympic weightlifting coaches, it's in their 01:23:59.579 --> 01:24:02.140 mobility. Man, if I knew what they knew when 01:24:02.140 --> 01:24:04.220 I was their age, it'd be a different ballgame 01:24:04.220 --> 01:24:07.050 for me. Totally different ballgame. But yeah, 01:24:07.069 --> 01:24:11.930 so. How are you able to pull on the reins a little 01:24:11.930 --> 01:24:15.770 bit if ever a situation arises where it seems 01:24:15.770 --> 01:24:17.170 that they're trying to push the envelope too 01:24:17.170 --> 01:24:22.689 much on lifts or something like that? So, you 01:24:22.689 --> 01:24:27.729 know, when you really, really, really want something. 01:24:27.789 --> 01:24:29.890 So let's just, I'll just pick a clean, right? 01:24:30.029 --> 01:24:33.489 And let's say you're going for a 225 pound clean. 01:24:34.029 --> 01:24:36.329 Okay. And you've built your way up to it and 01:24:36.329 --> 01:24:38.369 you try to get that clean and something's not 01:24:38.369 --> 01:24:40.090 right. Your techniques offer something you're 01:24:40.090 --> 01:24:42.829 pulling all the way through or something. You're 01:24:42.829 --> 01:24:45.770 like, okay, you debrief what needs to be done 01:24:45.770 --> 01:24:51.149 and you go back over and they try it again. I'll 01:24:51.149 --> 01:24:54.689 get about that third try. You start, I have explained 01:24:54.689 --> 01:24:56.829 to him like, Hey, we could sit here all day. 01:24:56.970 --> 01:25:00.390 I can watch you fail that all day long. What 01:25:00.390 --> 01:25:01.829 better are you going to leave, leave in the gym? 01:25:02.350 --> 01:25:05.140 So here's what you do. You drop that five pounds, 01:25:05.260 --> 01:25:09.100 you hit a 220, you go away, not 100 % pleased, 01:25:09.239 --> 01:25:12.340 but you're about 80 % pleased. And so not every 01:25:12.340 --> 01:25:15.100 day that you're in the gym is glorious. It's 01:25:15.100 --> 01:25:18.800 just not. It affects everybody. And so I don't, 01:25:18.800 --> 01:25:23.079 we've never had too many battles on that. On 01:25:23.079 --> 01:25:25.840 certain things growing up, you know, it's hard. 01:25:26.699 --> 01:25:29.680 What I've had to struggle with is like, hey, 01:25:29.779 --> 01:25:31.630 we need to go a little bit faster. And their 01:25:31.630 --> 01:25:35.310 fear of pushing their body faster because they 01:25:35.310 --> 01:25:36.670 know they're going to get fatigued and that felt 01:25:36.670 --> 01:25:38.390 fatigue on the body and they don't like it. And 01:25:38.390 --> 01:25:41.329 so fighting what everyone has to fight, right? 01:25:41.489 --> 01:25:44.369 If I tell you to walk a mile with a farmer carry, 01:25:44.630 --> 01:25:46.569 at some point in that mile, you're going to set 01:25:46.569 --> 01:25:48.689 those things, the weights down. But how do you 01:25:48.689 --> 01:25:51.329 overcome that felt fatigue mentally and keep 01:25:51.329 --> 01:25:56.569 going, right? And so trying to get them to understand 01:25:56.569 --> 01:25:59.489 that don't be fearful of it, learn how to manage 01:25:59.489 --> 01:26:04.779 it. Sometimes to go faster, but we have pretty 01:26:04.779 --> 01:26:06.819 good conversations, but we have very direct conversations. 01:26:07.279 --> 01:26:10.199 And so, if people overhear us in the gym talking, 01:26:10.340 --> 01:26:12.359 I talk to my girls like grown adults, and I always 01:26:12.359 --> 01:26:16.739 have. People are like, whoa, he is intense. And 01:26:16.739 --> 01:26:20.199 some people think, oh, he's living vicariously 01:26:20.199 --> 01:26:22.300 through his own daughters. That's what he's doing. 01:26:22.420 --> 01:26:24.579 And he's trying to project. No, I'm not. They 01:26:24.579 --> 01:26:26.840 told me what they wanted, and I'm holding them 01:26:26.840 --> 01:26:28.760 accountable for what they want. They wanted it. 01:26:29.420 --> 01:26:32.340 But it's not anything detrimental. No one sees 01:26:32.340 --> 01:26:34.239 the hugs and the kisses and I loves you's at 01:26:34.239 --> 01:26:37.460 home. They only see a five second integration 01:26:37.460 --> 01:26:39.939 of me talking to the girls, telling them truthfully, 01:26:40.100 --> 01:26:44.340 yeah, you sucked. But it's the same thing that 01:26:44.340 --> 01:26:47.720 I tell myself, right? And so it's not hurtful 01:26:47.720 --> 01:26:54.739 in any way. But yeah, so we, truth, direct communication, 01:26:55.000 --> 01:26:57.420 and then we just take things as they come, you 01:26:57.420 --> 01:27:02.680 know, in the gym. What is your perspective on 01:27:02.680 --> 01:27:06.100 law enforcement or first responder fitness standards 01:27:06.100 --> 01:27:09.079 or lack thereof in a profession where lives are 01:27:09.079 --> 01:27:12.840 at stake? I think it's horrible because that's 01:27:12.840 --> 01:27:15.260 one of the things that you have to make sure 01:27:15.260 --> 01:27:17.000 that you're physically fit. You can watch a video 01:27:17.000 --> 01:27:20.979 right now and you can watch a cop being so fatiguely 01:27:20.979 --> 01:27:23.560 out of shape that the suspect either gets away 01:27:23.560 --> 01:27:29.640 or gets their gun. And it's like, what? But we've 01:27:29.640 --> 01:27:33.760 pushed so much of a not a kind of a warrior's 01:27:33.760 --> 01:27:37.720 ethos on law enforcement. And it's more of a 01:27:37.720 --> 01:27:43.100 softer guardian ethos. Well, what happens is 01:27:43.100 --> 01:27:45.199 you bring more weaker mindset and people are 01:27:45.199 --> 01:27:46.680 like, oh, it just won't happen. It won't happen. 01:27:46.739 --> 01:27:48.899 It won't happen. What two o 'clock in the morning 01:27:48.899 --> 01:27:52.039 in the hood, it's very different than day shift 01:27:52.039 --> 01:27:55.060 in the upscaled neighborhoods where the Starbucks 01:27:55.060 --> 01:27:57.699 are. You know, when you come face to face and 01:27:57.699 --> 01:27:59.319 someone's sizing you up that's been to prison 01:27:59.319 --> 01:28:02.220 before, they don't care. They don't care that 01:28:02.220 --> 01:28:04.159 you're a male or female. You know what I mean? 01:28:04.579 --> 01:28:07.439 But again, that's how you communicate with people. 01:28:07.539 --> 01:28:10.020 I think that that standard is a must. I just 01:28:10.020 --> 01:28:12.600 do. There's a lot of departments that don't have 01:28:12.600 --> 01:28:15.020 it because they know what will happen. People 01:28:15.020 --> 01:28:17.720 won't pass it. And so like the state I came out 01:28:17.720 --> 01:28:19.920 of, Washington, they've lowered their standard 01:28:19.920 --> 01:28:22.199 where you don't even run anymore. You don't have 01:28:22.199 --> 01:28:26.189 to run to get in the academy. So what do you 01:28:26.189 --> 01:28:27.970 think happens? So a lot more overweight people 01:28:27.970 --> 01:28:29.970 are getting in to become law enforcement officers. 01:28:30.789 --> 01:28:35.310 And that's not me picking fun on anybody. It's 01:28:35.310 --> 01:28:37.130 like looking at their graduation photographs 01:28:37.130 --> 01:28:43.569 time and time again. And so are you going to 01:28:43.569 --> 01:28:46.510 have to run? Yeah, I ran many times as a cop. 01:28:46.630 --> 01:28:51.430 You know what I mean? So there's damn flies in 01:28:51.430 --> 01:28:58.760 my face over here. You know, I wish they would. 01:28:58.920 --> 01:29:00.960 I wish more departments would be more proactive 01:29:00.960 --> 01:29:04.439 in doing it. But sadly, they're not because they 01:29:04.439 --> 01:29:06.359 know what will happen. The numbers will deplete. 01:29:06.739 --> 01:29:10.939 And so I just my mindset is if you build a strong 01:29:10.939 --> 01:29:13.840 team, people want to be part of a strong team 01:29:13.840 --> 01:29:16.060 and you build other strong members of that team. 01:29:17.079 --> 01:29:21.130 But when you have a weak team. You know, their 01:29:21.130 --> 01:29:23.729 standards get to lose. You know, SOPs get loose. 01:29:24.050 --> 01:29:26.949 Everything gets loose. Everything's blaming everyone 01:29:26.949 --> 01:29:29.409 else loose. And there's, you know what I mean? 01:29:29.949 --> 01:29:33.090 The military's figured all of this out. All of 01:29:33.090 --> 01:29:38.609 this. What's bad and what's good. But I don't 01:29:38.609 --> 01:29:40.289 know. I just wish they did. I mean, that's my 01:29:40.289 --> 01:29:45.840 thing. I've seen through my experience. I've 01:29:45.840 --> 01:29:47.779 definitely worked for one of the best fire departments 01:29:47.779 --> 01:29:50.159 and one of the worst in America. I'll leave people 01:29:50.159 --> 01:29:53.119 to figure out which is which. But the good one 01:29:53.119 --> 01:29:57.159 was notorious, certainly when I was there, for 01:29:57.159 --> 01:30:00.140 their probation. By the end of the year, they 01:30:00.140 --> 01:30:04.039 would lose 25 % of the recruits through attrition. 01:30:04.159 --> 01:30:06.359 They put the bar high and they were like, there 01:30:06.359 --> 01:30:08.140 it is. And they even, I think, overhired. So 01:30:08.140 --> 01:30:11.539 they would kind of absorb that. Conversely, the 01:30:11.539 --> 01:30:14.399 other one. that you didn't even do any PT when 01:30:14.399 --> 01:30:17.779 you were in their orientation, if there were 01:30:17.779 --> 01:30:21.579 five vacancies, there might be nine people applying. 01:30:21.859 --> 01:30:23.640 And it paid better and had a little bit more 01:30:23.640 --> 01:30:25.560 time off than the other one, other sides of the 01:30:25.560 --> 01:30:28.600 country. So I saw that. Lowering standards does 01:30:28.600 --> 01:30:30.800 not work. If that was the case, that place would 01:30:30.800 --> 01:30:32.520 have had hundreds of thousands of candidates 01:30:32.520 --> 01:30:35.640 because the bar was in a trench below ground. 01:30:36.199 --> 01:30:39.479 So it's so maddening seeing that. And going back 01:30:39.479 --> 01:30:42.680 to what you said as far as... That confidence, 01:30:43.000 --> 01:30:46.359 so many people have had on the show from law 01:30:46.359 --> 01:30:48.399 enforcement that were in great shape, that had 01:30:48.399 --> 01:30:51.920 martial arts training, had reportedly the least 01:30:51.920 --> 01:30:54.779 hands -on events. Because the, you know, air 01:30:54.779 --> 01:30:56.939 quotes bad guy would look at them and go, yeah, 01:30:56.960 --> 01:30:58.859 I'm not going to try and mess with Sebastian 01:30:58.859 --> 01:31:02.260 Lavoie or whoever it is because they just appear 01:31:02.260 --> 01:31:04.100 like they would be able to whoop my ass. And 01:31:04.100 --> 01:31:06.560 so your downs are just a very few now. But you 01:31:06.560 --> 01:31:08.939 look at the deconditioned officer that's never 01:31:08.939 --> 01:31:12.170 even been uncomfortable before. Even your average 01:31:12.170 --> 01:31:13.710 person's probably look at them and go, well, 01:31:13.710 --> 01:31:15.430 I could outrun them in a foot chase. And as you 01:31:15.430 --> 01:31:18.010 said, sadly, we've seen them. And it's all fun 01:31:18.010 --> 01:31:20.670 and games, ha, ha, ha, on the Instagram. Unless 01:31:20.670 --> 01:31:22.689 you put the scenario, right, that guy's got a 01:31:22.689 --> 01:31:24.529 knife and he's running towards a kindergarten. 01:31:25.010 --> 01:31:28.430 Not so funny now, is it? So I think this is such 01:31:28.430 --> 01:31:31.930 an important conversation in fire, in law enforcement, 01:31:31.949 --> 01:31:33.829 and even EMS. There seems to be an allowance 01:31:33.829 --> 01:31:36.590 on the EMS. But we have to go, you know, say 01:31:36.590 --> 01:31:39.210 you were a single -serve paramedic and you're 01:31:39.210 --> 01:31:41.819 called to the Vegas shooting. you know, they're 01:31:41.819 --> 01:31:43.359 not just going to wheel everyone to, you're going 01:31:43.359 --> 01:31:45.039 to have to go in there and start dragging bodies. 01:31:45.119 --> 01:31:47.479 So all of our professions collectively should 01:31:47.479 --> 01:31:50.739 be held to a high standard. I agree. And like 01:31:50.739 --> 01:31:53.079 that Vegas thing, now you're there and the elevators 01:31:53.079 --> 01:31:54.819 are down and you need to get upstairs. Now you're 01:31:54.819 --> 01:31:56.899 climbing stairs and you got your aid bags with 01:31:56.899 --> 01:31:59.739 you, you know what I mean? Which are heavy. Yeah. 01:31:59.840 --> 01:32:01.319 And are you stopping every floor to catch your 01:32:01.319 --> 01:32:04.760 breath? So there are some people that do self 01:32:04.760 --> 01:32:06.840 -reflection and they take it upon themselves. 01:32:08.350 --> 01:32:10.310 I just wish the departments like my department 01:32:10.310 --> 01:32:14.310 fostered that healthier living, you know, but 01:32:14.310 --> 01:32:18.329 it's money and it's numbers. And so their thing 01:32:18.329 --> 01:32:20.750 is with the numbers, they need you out on the 01:32:20.750 --> 01:32:23.470 street. You know what I mean? And so they need 01:32:23.470 --> 01:32:25.689 to put more people out on the street. And then, 01:32:25.729 --> 01:32:32.029 well, we don't have the money to, you know, pay 01:32:32.029 --> 01:32:35.920 for a 50 % off of a gym membership. but you got 01:32:35.920 --> 01:32:38.260 enough money to spend on a lawsuit. You know 01:32:38.260 --> 01:32:40.920 what I mean? So it's like, you're going to pay 01:32:40.920 --> 01:32:44.180 either or. And so it's been shown throughout 01:32:44.180 --> 01:32:49.380 time and history, hard standards, good standards, 01:32:49.539 --> 01:32:53.640 strong people create less problems. It just, 01:32:53.739 --> 01:32:56.000 there are problems. Don't get me wrong, but there 01:32:56.000 --> 01:32:57.840 are less problems than weak people because everything 01:32:57.840 --> 01:33:00.659 starts to dissipate and your boundaries get wider 01:33:00.659 --> 01:33:03.100 and wider and wider. People are doing stuff they 01:33:03.100 --> 01:33:05.750 shouldn't be doing. It gets overlooked. But when 01:33:05.750 --> 01:33:07.470 you have a standard, it doesn't matter if you're 01:33:07.470 --> 01:33:11.130 the absolute, if you're a team leader, right? 01:33:11.630 --> 01:33:14.710 And I'm just a guy, I should be able to call 01:33:14.710 --> 01:33:19.329 you out tactfully, right? But there's people 01:33:19.329 --> 01:33:21.430 that are getting this bravado, like they become 01:33:21.430 --> 01:33:22.949 a leadership and then they start gaining weight. 01:33:24.050 --> 01:33:27.390 And then you can't do, it was harder. Me and 01:33:27.390 --> 01:33:28.949 my buddy had a discussion. It was harder for 01:33:28.949 --> 01:33:32.550 us to be on the team at 18 years on as team leaders. 01:33:34.180 --> 01:33:36.859 Because we had to stay up with the new guys coming 01:33:36.859 --> 01:33:38.979 in. You know what I mean? We had to make sure 01:33:38.979 --> 01:33:41.300 that we were shooting on par or better. We had 01:33:41.300 --> 01:33:43.159 to make sure that we were on par or better physical 01:33:43.159 --> 01:33:45.180 fit. We had to make sure that we were on par 01:33:45.180 --> 01:33:47.279 or better as far as skills. You know what I mean? 01:33:47.439 --> 01:33:49.859 And so you were constantly, constantly, constantly 01:33:49.859 --> 01:33:54.359 trying to get better. And we had a very strong 01:33:54.359 --> 01:34:03.039 run with no lawsuits on my tenure. Yeah. I don't 01:34:03.039 --> 01:34:06.560 think we had any lawsuits. But we did very thing. 01:34:06.619 --> 01:34:09.479 We did a lot of stuff and very professional, 01:34:09.539 --> 01:34:12.920 but we had standards and we took care of internal 01:34:12.920 --> 01:34:17.819 stuff. Harshly sometimes, but it wasn't really 01:34:17.819 --> 01:34:21.819 harsh. It was direct, you know? So, but yeah. 01:34:22.899 --> 01:34:25.880 I had a former cop on the show who now has a 01:34:25.880 --> 01:34:28.500 background investigation company. And it was 01:34:28.500 --> 01:34:30.319 a really interesting conversation. He was at 01:34:30.319 --> 01:34:34.140 a conference and. I forget what kind of expert 01:34:34.140 --> 01:34:38.020 was on the stage, but he'd asked, how much does 01:34:38.020 --> 01:34:41.260 it cost to get rid of a bad employee in law enforcement? 01:34:41.720 --> 01:34:45.699 And the guy said, half a million dollars. So 01:34:45.699 --> 01:34:47.920 when we're lowering this bar, because whether 01:34:47.920 --> 01:34:50.939 it's, you know, I mean, I think we should absolutely 01:34:50.939 --> 01:34:54.140 encapsulate anyone who's taken the job seriously, 01:34:54.140 --> 01:34:55.840 has met all the standards, and they happened 01:34:55.840 --> 01:34:57.420 to, as you just said, you know, get her on the 01:34:57.420 --> 01:35:00.239 job. We need to get them back to. as near as 01:35:00.239 --> 01:35:01.939 perfect as possible and put all our resources 01:35:01.939 --> 01:35:05.020 in there. But we all know that when you don't 01:35:05.020 --> 01:35:07.899 set the standard high, you don't forge that camaraderie 01:35:07.899 --> 01:35:10.859 and community within our profession and hold 01:35:10.859 --> 01:35:12.899 everyone up to the same standard that some people 01:35:12.899 --> 01:35:15.000 will take advantage of it. And now you've got 01:35:15.000 --> 01:35:17.020 these kind of fake workman's comp claims and 01:35:17.020 --> 01:35:18.640 disabilities. And that's what they were alluding 01:35:18.640 --> 01:35:21.460 to. Or as you said, a mistake with a lawsuit. 01:35:21.739 --> 01:35:23.579 And now you're probably talking about millions 01:35:23.579 --> 01:35:26.520 then. So it's a complete false economy. When 01:35:26.520 --> 01:35:29.260 you actually look at it, and you take the downstream 01:35:29.260 --> 01:35:32.020 money and you put it up front, you end up saving 01:35:32.020 --> 01:35:35.380 money hand over fist with a high bar and a well, 01:35:35.640 --> 01:35:39.239 God, what's the freaking term I'm looking for? 01:35:39.680 --> 01:35:41.819 With full recruitment is what I'm trying to say. 01:35:41.920 --> 01:35:45.920 Everyone in that, the vacancy is filled with 01:35:45.920 --> 01:35:47.819 the right kind of person in the first place. 01:35:49.079 --> 01:35:51.020 Now go to a business that's in the business of 01:35:51.020 --> 01:35:53.560 making money with products and then take them 01:35:53.560 --> 01:35:56.500 the mold of your old department and say, hey, 01:35:56.539 --> 01:35:58.220 would this work here? It would be absolutely 01:35:58.220 --> 01:36:01.479 not. Right? Where's the growth? Where's the production 01:36:01.479 --> 01:36:04.680 greater than last year? What are we doing to 01:36:04.680 --> 01:36:08.359 make our people better salesmen? Right? You have 01:36:08.359 --> 01:36:10.500 to put money into people for training. You have 01:36:10.500 --> 01:36:14.199 to. If you want less problems, I mean, like I 01:36:14.199 --> 01:36:18.899 said, the military's figured this out. But it's 01:36:18.899 --> 01:36:21.840 just, it's a money thing and it's a numbers thing. 01:36:21.939 --> 01:36:26.590 It really is. And it's just, God, it's... It's 01:36:26.590 --> 01:36:29.529 sad. We've fought in many battles and we've won 01:36:29.529 --> 01:36:33.189 many battles. We've lost some, but I'll often 01:36:33.189 --> 01:36:35.529 remember like, it shouldn't be this hard to fight, 01:36:35.569 --> 01:36:38.409 to go try to save somebody's life. You know what 01:36:38.409 --> 01:36:40.770 I mean? I just don't understand the concept, 01:36:41.029 --> 01:36:43.869 but because there's money attached to it. And 01:36:43.869 --> 01:36:46.649 so that's the biggest fight. And then when you're 01:36:46.649 --> 01:36:48.789 limited on your money for law enforcement, because 01:36:48.789 --> 01:36:50.250 everyone thinks that law enforcements are fully 01:36:50.250 --> 01:36:52.289 funded and they have all the money in the world. 01:36:52.369 --> 01:36:54.569 No, they do not. Right. There was things that 01:36:54.569 --> 01:36:56.609 we were making at home, bringing to use on the 01:36:56.609 --> 01:36:59.390 team. When I first started on the team, you used 01:36:59.390 --> 01:37:01.310 your own sniper rifle. You know what I mean? 01:37:01.890 --> 01:37:06.789 Yeah. It's just like and so you're always fighting 01:37:06.789 --> 01:37:09.109 for money to get some. So grants were great because 01:37:09.109 --> 01:37:12.069 grants helped get you certain capabilities and 01:37:12.069 --> 01:37:16.649 tools and tech that augmented. So the department 01:37:16.649 --> 01:37:19.850 didn't have to pay for it. Right. And so we've 01:37:19.850 --> 01:37:22.659 gotten. helicopter engines we've gotten boats 01:37:22.659 --> 01:37:26.300 uh we've gotten all kinds of stuff through the 01:37:26.300 --> 01:37:29.279 grant money and it's a great program but it's 01:37:29.279 --> 01:37:33.739 for a reason and it's been um but you fight and 01:37:33.739 --> 01:37:35.659 you just kind of got to pick your battles on 01:37:35.659 --> 01:37:37.880 what you want there's some that we've let go 01:37:37.880 --> 01:37:42.180 of and we didn't realize um my buddy fought hard 01:37:42.180 --> 01:37:44.779 for the explosive breaching one and they thought 01:37:44.779 --> 01:37:46.460 we were going to put bombs on doors and blow 01:37:46.460 --> 01:37:49.189 people up because they didn't know So what did 01:37:49.189 --> 01:37:51.890 he do? He educated them. And once they knew, 01:37:52.029 --> 01:37:54.989 they're like, oh, that's it? You know what I 01:37:54.989 --> 01:37:59.909 mean? So it's worth it. I will say it's worth 01:37:59.909 --> 01:38:03.130 it, but you will bleed. You will bleed a little 01:38:03.130 --> 01:38:06.430 bit, but it's worth it. And so I can look back. 01:38:06.449 --> 01:38:08.130 This is what I like about it. I can look back 01:38:08.130 --> 01:38:11.689 now and say I'm glad for what I did, and I'm 01:38:11.689 --> 01:38:13.270 happy with what I did, and I'm content with what 01:38:13.270 --> 01:38:15.890 I've done. Rather than leaving that career saying, 01:38:16.050 --> 01:38:18.010 man, I wish I would have, I wish I would have 01:38:18.010 --> 01:38:21.489 spoke up. I wish I, I've said my mind many times 01:38:21.489 --> 01:38:25.890 and I've gone back and I've apologized for speaking 01:38:25.890 --> 01:38:27.789 my mind sometimes because I might've been wrong. 01:38:28.829 --> 01:38:32.310 So, but yeah, I'm content with what I've done. 01:38:32.409 --> 01:38:34.590 And I think that time that I had on our team 01:38:34.590 --> 01:38:38.689 with my buddy and the guys on that team that 01:38:38.689 --> 01:38:41.090 we did some great stuff and we built some awesome 01:38:41.090 --> 01:38:44.670 capabilities. Did your friend manage to get that 01:38:44.670 --> 01:38:48.409 breaching program approved by breaching the council's 01:38:48.409 --> 01:38:50.069 door and then throwing a flashbang in there just 01:38:50.069 --> 01:38:51.510 so they could get that full immersive experience? 01:38:52.909 --> 01:38:58.210 No. Show and tell, bitch. Yeah. We've learned, 01:38:58.229 --> 01:39:00.229 though, you bring those decision makers out. 01:39:00.350 --> 01:39:03.489 So when we did aerial shooting program, we brought 01:39:03.489 --> 01:39:05.510 the sheriff out and we let the sheriff watch 01:39:05.510 --> 01:39:08.750 the snipers get up in the aircraft and shoot 01:39:08.750 --> 01:39:11.619 out of the helicopter. And she realized, oh, 01:39:11.680 --> 01:39:14.600 and I told her, I said, you know, mother earth 01:39:14.600 --> 01:39:17.880 is your backstop. If you miss for some chance, 01:39:17.920 --> 01:39:23.239 you miss your suspect. I said, you get close 01:39:23.239 --> 01:39:25.520 proximity to your target and your miss is maybe 01:39:25.520 --> 01:39:28.500 like six inches, but it's into the ground. It's 01:39:28.500 --> 01:39:30.800 not traveling through the air over a mile into 01:39:30.800 --> 01:39:33.880 some neighborhood, you know, certain things like 01:39:33.880 --> 01:39:39.699 that. So certain things like that. And so. You 01:39:39.699 --> 01:39:42.220 just got to bring people into kind of like, oh, 01:39:42.479 --> 01:39:47.000 that's all it is? Or, oh, I didn't realize that. 01:39:47.100 --> 01:39:50.560 You know what I mean? Absolutely. Well, I want 01:39:50.560 --> 01:39:53.319 to transition to, well, I want to go to your 01:39:53.319 --> 01:39:55.619 transition. Let's use the same word twice before 01:39:55.619 --> 01:39:58.659 we go to some closing questions. So at what point 01:39:58.659 --> 01:40:00.840 did you realize that you want to transition out? 01:40:00.939 --> 01:40:03.479 And then let's talk about your transition from 01:40:03.479 --> 01:40:05.380 law enforcement now into what you're doing today. 01:40:08.970 --> 01:40:11.449 I knew I wanted to transition out during the 01:40:11.449 --> 01:40:14.569 whole kind of 2020 COVID thing. They really, 01:40:14.729 --> 01:40:18.409 it was a, it was, it was, I'll say it was horrible 01:40:18.409 --> 01:40:20.029 what they did to law enforcement. Absolutely 01:40:20.029 --> 01:40:23.810 horrible. And I called my dad, I ran my financials 01:40:23.810 --> 01:40:28.029 to him. And it was my wife that looked at me 01:40:28.029 --> 01:40:34.449 and said, go. And so I had been contracting for 01:40:34.449 --> 01:40:39.399 six years while I was still working. And, and 01:40:39.399 --> 01:40:42.020 that's kind of a, every time the government gets 01:40:42.020 --> 01:40:44.220 shut down or funding gets pulled, that can stop, 01:40:44.439 --> 01:40:47.479 you know? So I never put any like hard ownership 01:40:47.479 --> 01:40:50.159 or income value on that, but it was something 01:40:50.159 --> 01:40:54.119 I did and I like. And so when I did transition, 01:40:54.319 --> 01:41:00.800 I still coach. I still do motivational talks 01:41:00.800 --> 01:41:03.260 to colleges and high schools and people. I still 01:41:03.260 --> 01:41:07.369 have clients. mental skills stuff for coaching 01:41:07.369 --> 01:41:10.689 for soccer teams, football teams, rodeo athletes. 01:41:10.970 --> 01:41:13.810 I do all of those things still and little pots 01:41:13.810 --> 01:41:16.350 of money there for me to come in plus my retirement. 01:41:16.630 --> 01:41:21.489 But then I also go do my overseas stuff. So I'm 01:41:21.489 --> 01:41:24.350 supposed to, I'm going to be in the Middle East 01:41:24.350 --> 01:41:30.550 sometime mid next year. So I like doing that. 01:41:30.670 --> 01:41:32.430 You know, you're over there. I like the program 01:41:32.430 --> 01:41:34.789 from what it's worth. I like what it does and 01:41:34.789 --> 01:41:41.050 what you're building for guys. So yeah, I just 01:41:41.050 --> 01:41:45.010 continue to do that. That fly is madly in love 01:41:45.010 --> 01:41:49.909 with you. I know, man. I need to try to kill 01:41:49.909 --> 01:41:53.350 it. All right. Well, I want to go to some closing 01:41:53.350 --> 01:41:55.600 questions so I can be mindful of your time. The 01:41:55.600 --> 01:41:58.159 first one I love to ask, is there a book or are 01:41:58.159 --> 01:42:00.319 there books that you love to recommend? It can 01:42:00.319 --> 01:42:02.699 be related to our discussion today or completely 01:42:02.699 --> 01:42:09.039 unrelated. I don't read a lot of books, right? 01:42:09.399 --> 01:42:11.840 So, which is kind of ironic because I wrote a 01:42:11.840 --> 01:42:17.960 book, right? So my book that I wrote was on Amazon 01:42:17.960 --> 01:42:22.279 for your greatest investment, raising strong 01:42:22.279 --> 01:42:25.079 kids through the Family Foundation, right? And 01:42:25.079 --> 01:42:28.720 so it's just 60 pages of something small and 01:42:28.720 --> 01:42:31.260 how we raised our girls. And so I would have 01:42:31.260 --> 01:42:34.060 more value in talking to you and life experience 01:42:34.060 --> 01:42:38.359 than reading a book. And so I've read some experts 01:42:38.359 --> 01:42:41.159 or excerpts of books that were recommended to 01:42:41.159 --> 01:42:44.699 me, but what happens is, and I read books prior 01:42:44.699 --> 01:42:47.020 to writing my book and I got into this whole 01:42:47.020 --> 01:42:51.170 fluff. They're filling pages and you can tell 01:42:51.170 --> 01:42:53.970 by when they're talking, they're just filling 01:42:53.970 --> 01:42:57.170 pages to get more pages in the book. I have no 01:42:57.170 --> 01:42:59.270 value for that because that doesn't give me a 01:42:59.270 --> 01:43:01.630 solution. And I, you know, so someone that's 01:43:01.630 --> 01:43:03.810 direct communicator, like communicator, like 01:43:03.810 --> 01:43:07.649 you, that's more truthful. I can get more value 01:43:07.649 --> 01:43:09.350 out of you listening to you talking to you than 01:43:09.350 --> 01:43:12.630 I can with a book. And so there's people that 01:43:12.630 --> 01:43:15.170 do read books, depending on the author. There's 01:43:15.170 --> 01:43:17.319 someone out there that you. probably would want 01:43:17.319 --> 01:43:19.979 to read because you value their opinion and they 01:43:19.979 --> 01:43:24.399 don't do that. That's great. But we stay pretty 01:43:24.399 --> 01:43:27.220 active and pretty busy in our household. So I 01:43:27.220 --> 01:43:30.180 just have a hard time sitting and reading. You 01:43:30.180 --> 01:43:33.340 know what I mean? Unless if it's shorter and 01:43:33.340 --> 01:43:36.260 more direct and to the point. I like stuff like 01:43:36.260 --> 01:43:40.020 that. So a book off the top of my head, I can't 01:43:40.020 --> 01:43:43.489 think of one. i'm just not a heavy heavy reader 01:43:43.489 --> 01:43:45.489 but i'll listen to podcasts and i'll listen to 01:43:45.489 --> 01:43:47.189 other people and i'll talk to other people in 01:43:47.189 --> 01:43:51.130 life you know have you ever read um sebastian 01:43:51.130 --> 01:43:55.149 junger's book tribe no you would like his stuff 01:43:55.149 --> 01:43:57.510 i i kind of not even modeled i found it was the 01:43:57.510 --> 01:44:01.270 same thing like i yeah i'm very lean writer and 01:44:01.270 --> 01:44:02.989 he is as well i think his books are like 130 01:44:02.989 --> 01:44:05.810 pages and he's hitting on some i mean the tribe 01:44:05.810 --> 01:44:08.109 is incredible is recommended on here over and 01:44:08.109 --> 01:44:11.050 over and over again but he's got another a couple 01:44:11.050 --> 01:44:13.789 i'm trying to remember freedom is one um and 01:44:13.789 --> 01:44:15.970 his latest one he did actually on near -death 01:44:15.970 --> 01:44:19.229 experience that he had but yeah every single 01:44:19.229 --> 01:44:21.329 word counts in his books and i agree completely 01:44:21.329 --> 01:44:22.989 there's nothing worse than going through 300 01:44:22.989 --> 01:44:25.949 pages and going so basically the title is this 01:44:25.949 --> 01:44:28.689 whole book is what you're saying yeah exactly 01:44:28.689 --> 01:44:33.529 yeah So, yeah, like I said, there's guys out 01:44:33.529 --> 01:44:35.029 there that have books that are very valuable. 01:44:35.170 --> 01:44:39.810 I just, I would basically, instead of research, 01:44:39.869 --> 01:44:41.989 I would have someone like you tell me, read this 01:44:41.989 --> 01:44:44.109 book. You know what I mean? And it's more kind 01:44:44.109 --> 01:44:45.489 of like what you would like. That would spark 01:44:45.489 --> 01:44:47.270 my interest to maybe look it up and read it, 01:44:47.329 --> 01:44:49.430 you know, versus me going out in the atmosphere, 01:44:49.470 --> 01:44:51.970 just trying to find a book, you know, but I did 01:44:51.970 --> 01:44:55.020 read a lot of parenting books. And not the full 01:44:55.020 --> 01:44:57.260 books itself, but I would go in from kind of 01:44:57.260 --> 01:44:58.859 the beginning. I'd get in the middle and I'd 01:44:58.859 --> 01:45:01.600 kind of go to the end. And I was like, I can't 01:45:01.600 --> 01:45:05.119 believe that people are buying this. I just can't. 01:45:05.119 --> 01:45:06.819 Now there's a hundred different ways to parent. 01:45:07.079 --> 01:45:11.020 Don't get me wrong. Right. But when you're trying 01:45:11.020 --> 01:45:13.260 to parent, it almost looks at it like, look at 01:45:13.260 --> 01:45:15.699 me, look at me, look at me, look at me, you know, 01:45:15.699 --> 01:45:19.159 the author. And it's just like, my whole goal 01:45:19.159 --> 01:45:21.520 was to build strong, confident female girls, 01:45:21.619 --> 01:45:25.279 you know. And that know their worth. And so they 01:45:25.279 --> 01:45:28.060 had no cell phones until they were in high school. 01:45:28.460 --> 01:45:30.720 So they're not doing stupid shit on Instagram. 01:45:30.840 --> 01:45:32.260 They don't have Snapchat, but what does every 01:45:32.260 --> 01:45:34.359 dude ask them? What's your Snapchat channel? 01:45:34.560 --> 01:45:37.340 They don't have it. They're adults now. They 01:45:37.340 --> 01:45:40.880 still don't have it. Focus in a career driven 01:45:40.880 --> 01:45:42.979 for both of them, you know, and then having something 01:45:42.979 --> 01:45:46.380 to do in the side of a competitive side is CrossFit, 01:45:46.439 --> 01:45:49.439 you know, but that I just use my experience of 01:45:49.439 --> 01:45:51.750 raising our family and how we did it. and showcased 01:45:51.750 --> 01:45:54.270 it into my book, but another book like that. 01:45:54.329 --> 01:45:56.529 Yeah, absolutely. I would read it. I'm not, I'm 01:45:56.529 --> 01:45:59.649 not against it. I just, I don't read a lot. Yeah. 01:45:59.970 --> 01:46:02.609 Well, I think he's been on the show four or five 01:46:02.609 --> 01:46:05.409 times now, so I highly recommend him. So you 01:46:05.409 --> 01:46:07.989 listen to the podcast or, or his books, but tribe 01:46:07.989 --> 01:46:11.529 is a must one. If you, if you have any inkling 01:46:11.529 --> 01:46:13.569 to read at all, I would recommend put that number 01:46:13.569 --> 01:46:15.550 one on your, on your list. And it's very short. 01:46:16.649 --> 01:46:20.159 Writing it down now. Got it. Roger. What about 01:46:20.159 --> 01:46:23.239 film, television, documentaries, any of those 01:46:23.239 --> 01:46:30.699 that you like? I like documentaries because they're 01:46:30.699 --> 01:46:33.119 more like real stuff, right? You know, but there's 01:46:33.119 --> 01:46:36.659 still stuff in there. Like they're making a documentary 01:46:36.659 --> 01:46:38.220 of one of our missions right now on Netflix, 01:46:38.460 --> 01:46:40.920 right? And I had one of the guys call me. And 01:46:40.920 --> 01:46:43.380 I'm sure there's going to be fluff in there that 01:46:43.380 --> 01:46:46.000 you're like, well, that didn't happen. But they 01:46:46.000 --> 01:46:49.720 elongate it to get more time and it's got to 01:46:49.720 --> 01:46:52.539 be appealing to other people. Right. I like very 01:46:52.539 --> 01:46:56.840 truthful things, you know, or Westerns. Right. 01:46:56.939 --> 01:46:59.659 Like Lonesome Doves. We watch Lonesome Dove all 01:46:59.659 --> 01:47:03.899 the time here. Right. But again, you know, the 01:47:03.899 --> 01:47:05.659 running joke in our house is we can't even watch 01:47:05.659 --> 01:47:08.329 a movie. We can't even get, all four of us would 01:47:08.329 --> 01:47:10.109 not be able to sit down and watch an entire movie 01:47:10.109 --> 01:47:11.710 because we would get to talking about something 01:47:11.710 --> 01:47:15.050 because we debrief a lot about certain things, 01:47:15.189 --> 01:47:18.930 right? And, or talk about life stuff or the cows 01:47:18.930 --> 01:47:21.470 or the horses and we just get, we just get tied 01:47:21.470 --> 01:47:23.289 up and just not getting sucked in and watching 01:47:23.289 --> 01:47:25.909 a TV show. You know, maybe that's my problem. 01:47:25.970 --> 01:47:27.470 Maybe I need to sit down and relax a little bit 01:47:27.470 --> 01:47:30.409 more. I don't know. Again, there's some great 01:47:30.409 --> 01:47:32.979 television out there. One that came up over and 01:47:32.979 --> 01:47:35.520 over again, and it's old, but law enforcement 01:47:35.520 --> 01:47:37.819 specifically would always, or a lot of them would 01:47:37.819 --> 01:47:41.079 say The Wire. And I finally sat down and started 01:47:41.079 --> 01:47:43.000 watching. It's four seasons. I think it is four 01:47:43.000 --> 01:47:46.119 or five. Maybe it's five. But they said it is 01:47:46.119 --> 01:47:49.000 the closest thing to their experience in law 01:47:49.000 --> 01:47:51.600 enforcement. And it was phenomenal. So I think 01:47:51.600 --> 01:47:53.399 that's the thing. There are just like books. 01:47:53.439 --> 01:47:55.239 There are some phenomenal shows. That one's on 01:47:55.239 --> 01:47:58.560 HBO, but well worth it. Never even heard of it. 01:47:58.659 --> 01:48:01.350 Yeah. And it was like. basically i think 2000 01:48:01.350 --> 01:48:03.970 or early 2001 was when the first one came out 01:48:03.970 --> 01:48:07.449 and then so the the kind of the way they've done 01:48:07.449 --> 01:48:09.550 it and it's so well done i think it was a baltimore 01:48:09.550 --> 01:48:14.729 journalist who kind of covered homicide initially 01:48:14.729 --> 01:48:19.210 but they told like the first series was um through 01:48:19.210 --> 01:48:23.289 the the kind of standing up of this um uh detective 01:48:23.289 --> 01:48:27.829 you know anti -drug um gang or unit whatever 01:48:27.829 --> 01:48:29.859 you want to call it And so you see through their 01:48:29.859 --> 01:48:33.000 eyes. The second one you see through the smuggler's 01:48:33.000 --> 01:48:34.819 eyes. The third time you see through the gang 01:48:34.819 --> 01:48:37.159 member's eyes. The fourth is more like the school 01:48:37.159 --> 01:48:39.920 and how these young kids get to this point. And 01:48:39.920 --> 01:48:41.439 the fifth, I think, was more like the politician, 01:48:41.720 --> 01:48:43.819 like how, as we were talking about, you know, 01:48:43.819 --> 01:48:46.260 2020, the right way, the wrong way. And it's 01:48:46.260 --> 01:48:48.560 just so well done because every single perspective 01:48:48.560 --> 01:48:50.420 is different. And it's, you know, I think each 01:48:50.420 --> 01:48:53.100 episode is an hour. So you could kind of do that 01:48:53.100 --> 01:48:54.760 and then walk away and do all the CrossFit and 01:48:54.760 --> 01:48:56.319 all the other things rather than be sucked into 01:48:56.319 --> 01:48:59.640 a two and a half hour film. Why it's not more 01:48:59.640 --> 01:49:01.659 well -known, I don't know, because it's by far 01:49:01.659 --> 01:49:03.399 one of the best pieces of television I've ever 01:49:03.399 --> 01:49:06.819 watched. Never even heard of it. But again, so 01:49:06.819 --> 01:49:10.600 you recommend it. I put it down and it might 01:49:10.600 --> 01:49:12.600 be if we have a little bit, we watch it, you 01:49:12.600 --> 01:49:15.920 know? Yeah. Brilliant. All right. Well, the next 01:49:15.920 --> 01:49:18.520 question, is there a person that you'd recommend 01:49:18.520 --> 01:49:21.500 to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to 01:49:21.500 --> 01:49:23.520 the first responders, military and associated 01:49:23.520 --> 01:49:30.369 professions of the world? um god there's a bunch 01:49:30.369 --> 01:49:39.090 of dudes right um yeah there's like my uh my 01:49:39.090 --> 01:49:45.470 old sergeant uh he retired just after me um but 01:49:45.470 --> 01:49:50.909 god there's there's a bunch of people but i don't 01:49:50.909 --> 01:49:55.109 um Trying to think. I mean, my other buddy, my 01:49:55.109 --> 01:49:56.829 other team leader was with team leader with me 01:49:56.829 --> 01:49:59.289 on the team. He's still there. I think he's going 01:49:59.289 --> 01:50:03.750 to retire next year sometime. But one of those 01:50:03.750 --> 01:50:06.729 two, Brian or Chris, you know, Chris was the 01:50:06.729 --> 01:50:10.409 old sergeant and he was in the military. He got 01:50:10.409 --> 01:50:14.010 out at 82nd year born, came back in to the Ranger 01:50:14.010 --> 01:50:16.289 Battalion and then came over to become a cop. 01:50:16.390 --> 01:50:18.189 And he got on the SWAT with us, came back as 01:50:18.189 --> 01:50:21.210 a sergeant. So he's got a lot of experience and 01:50:21.210 --> 01:50:25.449 a lot of. He was my in -between from the admin 01:50:25.449 --> 01:50:28.289 to the sergeant. We communicated quite a bit 01:50:28.289 --> 01:50:29.649 because he was the sergeant of the team, right? 01:50:30.130 --> 01:50:33.270 But he was up talking to the admin way more than 01:50:33.270 --> 01:50:37.750 I was. And so he'd be a good one. Brilliant. 01:50:38.189 --> 01:50:40.210 Brilliant. I can give you the information. Yeah, 01:50:40.229 --> 01:50:42.630 that'd be fantastic. Thank you. All right. Well, 01:50:42.670 --> 01:50:44.409 then the last question before we make sure where 01:50:44.409 --> 01:50:46.090 to find you and also make sure that we talk about 01:50:46.090 --> 01:50:48.470 your apparel company as well. What do you do 01:50:48.470 --> 01:50:54.760 to decompress? You know, I tell this to people 01:50:54.760 --> 01:50:58.739 all the time. I could go down to a mercantile 01:50:58.739 --> 01:51:03.699 shop with my kids and my wife. That's what I 01:51:03.699 --> 01:51:08.640 do. I could go to the supermarket. And that's 01:51:08.640 --> 01:51:11.100 what I do. I just like being out with my family. 01:51:11.859 --> 01:51:15.159 That's all. And so I don't say, no, I put the 01:51:15.159 --> 01:51:16.699 headphones on, I put my hood on, I get in the 01:51:16.699 --> 01:51:19.500 gym. I don't do that. You know what I mean? We're 01:51:19.500 --> 01:51:21.680 social people. I'm a social person. I like my 01:51:21.680 --> 01:51:24.239 family. And we do things as a family all the 01:51:24.239 --> 01:51:26.399 time. So that's what I do is I just go places 01:51:26.399 --> 01:51:28.560 with them and do stuff with them. But there's 01:51:28.560 --> 01:51:31.680 stuff we have to do. Like later today, we got 01:51:31.680 --> 01:51:33.520 to do stuff with the horses. You know what I 01:51:33.520 --> 01:51:35.579 mean? The girls will be out there with the horses 01:51:35.579 --> 01:51:38.960 with me. And then we're all doing a workout here. 01:51:39.239 --> 01:51:41.140 So my wife and my daughters are doing a workout 01:51:41.140 --> 01:51:44.520 here at our place. And so I guess that's what 01:51:44.520 --> 01:51:46.500 I do decompress is I just hang with my family 01:51:46.500 --> 01:51:49.430 and do stuff like that. I specifically hone in 01:51:49.430 --> 01:51:52.510 on one thing that I do that's isolating me from 01:51:52.510 --> 01:51:56.069 anything just so I decompress, right? I decompress 01:51:56.069 --> 01:52:00.270 within my own family. Absolutely. Yeah, I do 01:52:00.270 --> 01:52:03.029 the same, that and walking my dog. Yeah, see 01:52:03.029 --> 01:52:05.430 what I'm saying? It's just like, because you 01:52:05.430 --> 01:52:06.949 have time to think when you're out there walking 01:52:06.949 --> 01:52:09.569 around and doing stuff and you have time to think 01:52:09.569 --> 01:52:11.850 out when you're lifting weights, but you're not 01:52:11.850 --> 01:52:14.310 alone. You know what I mean? You're with someone, 01:52:14.369 --> 01:52:16.430 you're conversing with somebody or something, 01:52:16.470 --> 01:52:20.260 you know? Yeah, that's what I do and that's what 01:52:20.260 --> 01:52:22.479 I like. And I've always been that way. Well, 01:52:22.479 --> 01:52:25.300 for people listening, firstly, let's talk about 01:52:25.300 --> 01:52:30.739 the apparel company. So Three Arrow Apparel, 01:52:30.880 --> 01:52:35.159 Instagram at Three Arrow Apparel. Each arrow 01:52:35.159 --> 01:52:40.020 is my wife and daughter and I'm the bar. So it's 01:52:40.020 --> 01:52:43.100 a team concept. So if the team is tightly bonded 01:52:43.100 --> 01:52:46.260 together, the individual byproduct of that team 01:52:46.260 --> 01:52:49.449 is individual strength. the arrows. That individual 01:52:49.449 --> 01:52:51.909 strength will always contribute to the team and 01:52:51.909 --> 01:52:53.529 the team contributes to building the individual 01:52:53.529 --> 01:52:57.390 strength. So, it was a team concept and we built 01:52:57.390 --> 01:53:01.930 that and we have hats, shirts, we have sayings 01:53:01.930 --> 01:53:07.369 on our shirts, we have nine trademarks. One of 01:53:07.369 --> 01:53:09.510 our trademarks is licensed with the American 01:53:09.510 --> 01:53:14.270 Legion. And so, we get dividends from that every 01:53:14.270 --> 01:53:18.409 year and It's basically live life through action. 01:53:19.050 --> 01:53:20.630 Anything you do in life, I don't care if you're 01:53:20.630 --> 01:53:22.729 a bull rider, if you're a hockey player, you're 01:53:22.729 --> 01:53:25.329 a soccer player, we're for you because it's actionable, 01:53:25.550 --> 01:53:28.270 right? And so everything's derivative from a 01:53:28.270 --> 01:53:31.310 team, a family, a team as far as the family goes. 01:53:31.770 --> 01:53:33.949 But, you know, if you're an individual competing 01:53:33.949 --> 01:53:35.689 in something individually, that's, it's still 01:53:35.689 --> 01:53:37.850 for you because we're all about strength, drive 01:53:37.850 --> 01:53:40.430 and determination, you know? And so we just, 01:53:40.510 --> 01:53:43.729 I started it with my coaching thing, the arrows, 01:53:44.029 --> 01:53:47.000 right? And then my wife was like, you should 01:53:47.000 --> 01:53:48.600 probably put that on some shirts and sell it. 01:53:48.640 --> 01:53:50.640 And I'm like, no one's going to buy that. So 01:53:50.640 --> 01:53:53.100 we do. We do. All right. We get orders every 01:53:53.100 --> 01:53:58.079 week and all over the US and stuff. And so we 01:53:58.079 --> 01:54:01.720 were about to restock some more stuff when we 01:54:01.720 --> 01:54:03.840 build our gym out here at our place out in Texas. 01:54:04.000 --> 01:54:06.579 And so we were all crammed into our room right 01:54:06.579 --> 01:54:08.039 now because we just moved here four and a half 01:54:08.039 --> 01:54:12.479 months ago. So and we bought a trailer and we 01:54:12.479 --> 01:54:16.159 do shows. and have the tent set up and everyone 01:54:16.159 --> 01:54:18.460 there works it because it's everyone in the family 01:54:18.460 --> 01:54:21.539 is part of it. So the girls, you know, help run 01:54:21.539 --> 01:54:23.340 the tills and the money. And I do the talking 01:54:23.340 --> 01:54:25.380 and my wife does the inventory. I mean, everyone 01:54:25.380 --> 01:54:27.640 just kind of plays their part for it. And so 01:54:27.640 --> 01:54:30.079 then we sponsor athletes. We have some athletes 01:54:30.079 --> 01:54:34.300 that we sponsor with clothing. And so, yeah, 01:54:34.380 --> 01:54:36.220 it's kind of a, it just kind of started growing 01:54:36.220 --> 01:54:38.760 slow and it just kept building and building and 01:54:38.760 --> 01:54:40.739 building. But I want these things to stand for 01:54:40.739 --> 01:54:43.529 something, you know what I mean? So. I don't 01:54:43.529 --> 01:54:45.050 want to become a millionaire overnight and then 01:54:45.050 --> 01:54:47.989 next year no one ever wear our stuff. So that 01:54:47.989 --> 01:54:50.170 slow progression of growth is what I'm okay with. 01:54:50.229 --> 01:54:51.729 And everyone tells me you should grow faster. 01:54:52.189 --> 01:54:54.069 I'm okay with where we're going now because I 01:54:54.069 --> 01:54:58.289 want that to mean something. And so that three 01:54:58.289 --> 01:55:01.470 -year apparel, we got hoodies, hats, and shirts. 01:55:02.329 --> 01:55:05.970 Pretty cool stuff. And then my coaching stuff 01:55:05.970 --> 01:55:09.029 is that three -year OTME. That's my coaching, 01:55:09.090 --> 01:55:11.470 but I just do family stuff on there and coaching 01:55:11.470 --> 01:55:16.789 stuff. Yeah. Beautiful. Well, I want to thank 01:55:16.789 --> 01:55:18.729 you so much. I mean, such an interesting conversation 01:55:18.729 --> 01:55:21.109 and being all over the place and taking a deep 01:55:21.109 --> 01:55:23.170 dive into CrossFit, especially training, you 01:55:23.170 --> 01:55:24.989 know, both of your daughters to be competitive 01:55:24.989 --> 01:55:27.750 in that space has been really interesting. And 01:55:27.750 --> 01:55:30.310 then obviously paralleling that with the woeful 01:55:30.310 --> 01:55:32.069 lack of fitness standards in our professions, 01:55:32.149 --> 01:55:35.029 plural. So I want to thank you so much for being 01:55:35.029 --> 01:55:37.229 so generous with your time and coming on the 01:55:37.229 --> 01:55:39.869 Behind the Shield podcast today. Absolutely, 01:55:39.909 --> 01:55:41.710 James. I really appreciate it. And thank you 01:55:41.710 --> 01:55:43.329 so much. And it was great meeting you for the 01:55:43.329 --> 01:55:46.310 first time with our Northern brothers. And then 01:55:46.310 --> 01:55:47.710 now I appreciate it.