This episode is sponsored by StationWise, the
first staffing software to be truly firefighter
-proof. Now, you may be wondering why I have
software as a sponsor when I focus usually on
physical and mental health of the first responders,
and I will tell you exactly why. For the first
time, this is a staffing platform that also is
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now of course station wise focuses on staffing
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meaning that you can access it not only within
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if you want to hear the full story from the founder,
who he himself is a son of a firefighter, listen
to episode 1163 with Marcus Edwards. And if you
want to book a demo or learn more, go to stationwise
.com. This episode is sponsored by Transcend,
a veteran -owned and operated performance optimization
company that I introduced recently as a sponsor
on this show. Well, since then, I have actually
been using my products and I have had incredible
success. There was initial blood work that was
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punches to the head and shift work and peptides.
Four months later they did a detailed blood work
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they offer, whether it's male health, female
health, peptides to boost your own testosterone,
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Now, as I mentioned before, the other side of
this company is an altruistic arm called the
Transcend Foundation, which is putting veterans
and first responders through some of their protocols
free of charge. Now, Transcend are also offering
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And you can find that on jamesgearing .com under
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808 with the founder, Ernie Colling. or go to
transcendcompany .com. Welcome to the Behind
the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James
Geering, and this week I have an incredibly important
episode for you. Doug Orchard is a documentary
filmmaker and was my guest on episode 576, where
we talked about The Motivation Factor, the film
he made on an incredibly progressive PE program
in California in the 1960s. For many of you listening,
you are probably recipients or hoping one day
to be a recipient of some sort of pension. Well,
in Doug's latest film, he exposes how private
equity firms are draining money from so many
pensions in this country. So for anyone who will
be relying on a pension at the end of their career,
this is an absolute must listen. Now, before
we get to this incredibly important and powerful
conversation, as I say every week, please just
take a moment. go to whichever app you listen
to this on subscribe to the show leave feedback
and leave a rating Every single five -star rating
truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making
it easier for others to find. And this is a free
library of almost 1 ,200 episodes now. So all
I ask in return is that you help share these
incredible men and women's stories so I can get
them to every single person on planet Earth who
needs to hear them. So with that being said,
I welcome back onto the show, Doug. Orchard.
Enjoy. Doug, I want to start by saying welcome
back to the Behind the Shield podcast today.
Thank you. So great. Thanks for having me back.
So we sat down, I was looking out right before
we hit record, episode 576. So that was three
years and change ago. So we were just emerging,
I think, from the pandemic then. One of the things
I want to hit as a kind of icebreaker before
we go to the bulk of this conversation today.
I am constantly referring to your film, The Motivation
Factor, when we look at the importance of addressing
the nation's health and bolstering PE programs
and serving real food in our schools would be
a massive, massive tool for curbing this upward
trajectory of obesity and overweight Americans
at the moment. So before we dive into pensions
and all things, Talk to me about kind of any
different perspectives that you've got, having
studied that, having made an incredible film
about that as we've emerged now three years post
-pandemic. Well, I understood when I was making
that film that the people at the top didn't understand
the topic, really. I just had a lot. more faith
that they would be open to learning about it
and responding when they saw, hey, here's how
things have been in the last 20 successful civilizations,
the leaders. Here's what they did. Here's how
they unified the people. Here's how they achieved
optimal gain. Here's how they became better than
everybody else. In the end, our brains don't
get a pass. You know, our body. You could just
look at your stomach and say, okay, that's the
status of my brain. So it's all connected, right?
And the cost of our healthcare, it's crippling
everything. I just didn't understand how dark
it's become that they kind of like it that way.
They kind of like it this way. There's a lot
of money in having a sick society. And I was
really, really dark, but you have to understand
who's, and this gets into what we're about to
talk about, not in an impossible, oh, it's a
gloom doom, but what we have to do in a way that's
actually in your self -interest to preserve it.
But yeah, I saw, I've been a little bit discouraged.
That movie, the trailer and the pieces from that
film, wow, they've got over a billion views now.
But no one makes reference to the film. No one
even knows the film's still out there. It's still
on my to -do list to figure out how to get the
population to watch The Motivation Factor, which
is and will always be the best movie I've ever
made. What's sad is I've had so many strength
and conditioning coaches on the show, and I don't
think a single one of them has heard of the film.
No, but if you showed them any of that footage,
they'd go, oh, yeah, I've seen it. Well, I mean,
since we've talked, since we've talked, David
Gagan, whatever, you know, Navy SEAL guy, he's
ripped right from the movie with the graphics
and everything from the movie. He's put it up
on his Instagram account. Robert Kennedy Jr.
used it for his Make America Healthy Again campaign,
the official one and all of that. So, yeah, everybody's,
it's everywhere. And I'm happy that people see
it. I really, I just. people don't understand
how much work it is to digitize that stuff to
find it to drag it out we were all over the country
grabbing that and putting that together we went
although i was in sacramento california area
um a lot of that footage came from south carolina
so we had to go to some boondock place with big
dogs you know get that and all that so Ron Jones
went and got that. He deserves the credit for
that. A ton of alumni gave me this footage. And
then you got to pay to digitize it and restore
it and all that. So, you know, it's a little
bit frustrating when someone lifts something
and just sticks it out there with the aim to
sell something, get more likes or whatever it
is that they're trying to do with it. So it hasn't
improved. We've only gone the wrong direction
since then. and continue to do so i think since
we talked i don't remember if this was in your
podcast or not but there was a school that was
still doing it that was trained from from that
and they're in modesto and since then due to
the actions of the um what's a supervisor uh
they've stopped like they don't do it either
which is crazy since 1969 68 so they were doing
for 57 years i believe and it just stopped so
so that that coach left and now in texas and
trying to get texas to do it so so for people
listening i don't know what we're talking about
it's the uh the incredible pe program that was
uh taken from the russians the russians came
and took it we took it from greek and rome it
went it went from europe to us over to russia
after the fall of iron curtain we saw that they
were still doing it that they did the whole time
yeah wasn't this to get jacked it was to actually
restore your body to that natural state we see
little bits of that here and there um but um
yeah but i think the point is with with the footage
that was put out there had that all been attached
to check out this documentary, see what this,
you know, this, this program was in the sixties.
Let's start making it a thing in the country.
You'd be like, okay, I, all right. You took parts
of my film, but you're using it for the movement.
And that would have been different. I could care
less. Yeah. If they just make reference to the
movie and people watched enough of it, really,
I make movies to actually change things. I'm
not satisfied anymore with entertainment alone.
It's I. see a major issue that's not being addressed
and won't be fixed by our parties. And I make
nonpartisan movies that actually have the potential
to move the needle for society and fix things
that, and usually there's a historical with a
current, there's a number of factors. It's always
very comprehensive to look at it. I say I could
probably get a PhD in it because they typically
will take me about four years to do. So anyway.
Yeah, but I think, I mean, just staying on this
for a second, it is important because when we
talk about what needs to happen, the motivation
factor, you know, what was done in, you know,
in those high schools in California in the 60s.
is absolutely part of the solution then you take
in what jamie oliver was doing with school food
that's another part of the solution you know
then you look at bolstering local farmers to
be able to create organic food you know within
that town within that city now you're starting
to amass things pedestrianizing downtown utilizing
more public transport so people are walking more
these are all actionable solutions and as you
mentioned you know our jfk was the champion at
the time of this. Now we've got RFK, who I'm
sure at his heart was wanting to actually make
the nation healthier. But the moment, you know,
obviously that he stepped into this other party,
he was castrated and that was it because we've
heard nothing about making the nation healthier.
So I just want to kind of highlight this because
I think the motivation factor is absolutely one
of the actionable tools that anyone listening
now, especially if you're part of a school system.
can look at see the success not just of the health
of the kids but the bullying and the grades and
all these other areas that were improved as well
and start asking the question well why are we
not doing it this way right right well i don't
think we're gonna fix it until we do it or something
pretty dang similar it's it's usually it's always
historically been like that at least the activities
they did how you got people to do it together,
the unity that is derived from it, the mental
health that comes as a consequence of it. You
know, that school I made reference to that stopped
it since we talked last had no bullying, eighth
grade. You know, I interviewed somebody who had
been living in her car. And she experienced bullying,
you know, lived in her car with her mom in a
military school, but didn't in that junior high
school as a consequence of the program. It was
all for one, one for all. They were united. And,
you know, these are things you can't teach in
the algebra class, but you can out in the field
together. So it was really great. And I know
all of us learned some lessons who can do team
sports, for example. but this is something that
caught the whole society everybody everyone's
part of it absolutely well transitioning then
to another topic that affects almost everybody
You reached out two, three weeks ago now with
a whole different kind of area that you've dived
into. And it certainly directly affects a lot
of the people listening that are wearing a uniform
and receiving a city or a county pension. A world
that I'm completely... Or state. Or state. And
federal. And federal. If you've got military
here, too. We have. Yeah, so... I reached out
to you because, and I'll just share with the
audience, here was a conversation. I said, James,
I know why you're pissed off and I know why it's
not working. I know why the unions aren't listening
to you, why you can't get changes even though
the data proves it. I know now why it's happening.
And so I shared with you what I've learned from
this movie I've been working on. And so I'm going
to try to get through it pretty dang quickly,
even though the film's going to take about an
hour and a half. Take your time, though. There's
no rush on this end. Yeah, so I found it accidentally.
And I just want everyone to understand that the
biggest pile of money, the biggest pots of money
we have in every state is that state's public
pension. The biggest pot of money that we got
in any county is the county's public pension.
pile of money that we got in the city is the
city's public pensions okay so you're seeing
this trend right so it's this so there's 6 .5
trillion dollars right now sitting in the combined
state county and city public pensions of america
right now should be a lot more but that's what
it is and um for the past 30 years there's been
a pilfering of it there's been changes made and
how those things have been administered and um
Those changes have done two things. One, there's
been a stealing of the public pension, and it's
the result of a cost. It's the cost of secrecy.
And so the film title that I'm working on is
Pension Promises Stolen. the cost of secrecy
and we'll see what it ends up being but um what's
happened if you're a firefighter and you're in
the city of detroit and you were part of things
uh back in let's say 2005 and let's say you retired
in around 2010 you experienced something and
i want to walk through this first before i back
into how this is all happening, why everyone
should pay attention, and then ultimately how
all of this is the answer to why your unions
aren't listening to you anymore. And what you
need to do to flip that. You're never going to
get the hours that you need to be at and everything
else until this changes, okay? All right, awesome.
We'll see if everyone's up there at the end of
this so they believe me. This is what's happened.
So in Denver, excuse me, Detroit, Detroit in
2010 went bankrupt as a city. Their pension was
actually in great shape overall, comparative
to where most pension funds are at today now.
But the city was pretty messed up. And so the
city went bankrupt. And what they did is they
took the city employees and they said, okay.
We are going to give everybody a 4 .5 % haircut
from what you were supposed to get. But that's
not that bad of a haircut. We went bankrupt.
But we're not going to give you any cost of living
increase. It was called a COLA, a cost of living
adjustment. So you're not going to get a COLA.
So for those who are not part of this world for
a moment, let me explain what that meant for
them. it meant that you're going to start at
some percent. Let's say, let's work with $100
because I can do that now. You're going to start
with $100 a month paycheck, okay? Here's your
$100. But, you know, you get $100 the first,
what we're going to call it, month, right? The
next year, though, things went up. Inflation,
you have typically a 3 % rise in inflation. And
so there's no cost of living adjustment for that.
So now you have an in reality $97 to spend that
month, right? Because it's changed down. A lot
of people will just think of it differently,
but I'd like to think of it as it's the haircut
from you. They're taking that money from you.
You only have this much now. So fast forward
a decade, you've lost $30 of the $100. You're
down to $70. But then you ran into COVID. In
the last five years, there's an economist, Kotlikoff
in my film, who explains that we've seen roughly
everything's gone up 30 % food, the cost of everything
at 30 % increase. So we'll just take that 30
% away. That's how we're working this example.
So instead of $70 five years later to present,
you're now at what? $40, right? You're at $40.
Now you started getting paid $100 a month, but
now you're only getting paid $40 a month. Well,
how's that going to work, right? And one decade
more, you know, 3 % every year, right? 3%, it's
another 30%. So in the year 2030, the people
that retired in 2010, right? from Detroit without
colas by 2035, they're living on $10 a month
when they started at $100 a month. That's their
actual purchasing power of whatever it is. It
might still be $100 a month, but that's what
they'll be getting. But it can only buy $10 worth
of stuff a month because of what's happened.
The reason I want to share that is Throughout
the country, we are seeing the complete elimination
of colas. Now, a lot of you who are like, some
of you may not actually know firefighters or
police officers who experienced this in Detroit.
You say, hey, not so, Doug. They didn't get that
4%, 4 .5 % cut. And they started right where
they're supposed to be. And they got a cola.
It's just 1 % a year. Okay, so let's take all
that math. It's like, I'm not going to do it,
but it's not great, right? 1 % is not 3 % over
all that time. Then at 30%, it only went 1 %
a year. So that's right there. You ended up with
25. You lost 25, right? So you could see it's
not much better at all. But those firefighters
and those police officers in Detroit, they're
part of a system that we're not getting Social
Security. So the city did not put a dime into
the Social Security. They were not going to receive
Social Security. So as a result, they said, oh,
we got to make it better for them because they
don't even have Social Security. So maybe they're
at, what, $18, you know, in 10 years from now.
Maybe they're getting $18 or $20 out of that
original $100. And that's it. And not Social
Security. So I have teachers, for example, in
the state of Ohio, who 28 years later. They're
getting 30 cents on the dollar right now. That's
where they're at right now. We found, the group
that was part of, they found a teacher that was
actually living in a chicken coop. They went
to the address and the person says, she's not
here, she's in the back. She literally was living
in a chicken coop. And as crazy as that sounds,
when you see what that was actually buying and
her other options, that was all she could have.
And so she's being really thrash. OK, so how
did all of this happen? Like, how are we in a
situation where these public pensions that were
designed and were sold to be so good that you
won't even need Social Security? How did this
get to the point that a city could go bankrupt
and screw you like that? And by the way, the
city of Chicago, the city of Chicago in 2000,
they had this asset value in their total pension
fund. which today is the same dollar amount it
may have like two or three hundred thousand million
more like it's like nothing out of all these
billions it's the same value but their liabilities
have gone up six sixty billion dollars they got
the same money but they got liabilities now 60
billion more i mean it's impossible they are
they say they're like 22 funded but someone in
my film to the analysis said no they're 11 They're
11 % funded. They're done. And you can't sue
them. You are not allowed to sue them. You can't
sue them until they don't make their payment.
So as long as they're just paying out anything
and all those politicians who are part of it,
they're retiring, they're done, and they're just,
you know, they're out of there, right? It's not
until someone catches at the very, very end of
the show that it's just done. It's a crappy system.
I mean, it's really too bad. And so how did this
happen? And what does this have to do with your
unions? And this is where it gets interesting.
So the reason I started making this film is there's
an investigation going on right now at CalPERS,
which is the largest public pension we have in
America right now. It's $550 billion. And then
CalSTRS has it. almost the same amount. So together,
they're about a trillion dollars. To put that
in perspective, everyone gets pretty amazed with
Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund that they've
got. It's not even that amount. It's a little
less than what just California has in their two
state public pensions. And so there's two board
members that went whistleblower. And so they
reached out. to this investigator. His name is
Edward Siddell. He wrote two books that happen
to be right here. One is called Who Stole My
Pension? He actually wrote this book with Robert
Kiyosaki, who wrote Rich Man, Poor Man. This
is actually the only bestseller on pensions ever
written, because who would ever read a book about
pensions? And then the other one the guy wrote
was how to steal a lot of money legally he got
so frustrated that nobody was listening that
he just outlined exactly what these public pensions
are doing how they get into everybody's um what
the private equity is doing to the public pensions
and how they're stealing this money legally and
uh lays it all out uh kind of interesting stuff
so anyway so these these two former board members
at calipers have hired Ed Seidel, Edward Seidel,
to do a forensic audit. Now, he has pioneered
this space. He won the largest whistleblower
at the time award from the SEC on something on
JPMorgan Chase. He got $88 million for that.
He's got another whistleblower award that he's
done, investigation, where he earned $20 million
and another one for $11 million. This guy is
an animal. He's here in Florida. And he was in
a film that I did called The Baby Boomer Dilemma,
which at one point was looking at pensions for
a little bit of that. So they've hired him. And
as you can only imagine, this guy is not popular
at all with all these state public pensions.
And they immediately, when he's coming on, the
other states are sending all this data to them.
Here's your government budget. You have to do
all this stuff. And then he goes in, waits a
couple of weeks, and then he does a Freedom of
Information Act and says, I want all the documents
that are related to my name. So he's got all
these. And you can see all this traffic that's
going from other states that he's done these
forensic audits on and how they're immediately
trying to queue in. And then there's specific
organizations that are these consultants to these
funds. And it's so dirty. It's crazy what's happening.
But the first thing I want everyone to understand
is these are the biggest piles of money that
we've got in the United States. They're individually
sit in every state. And they were doing just
so great in the early 90s, mid 90s. So good that
a lot of state treasurers, governors. You know,
attorney generals, everybody started looking
at these and going, you know, that's a lot of
money sitting there. Some of these are overfunded.
They got like too much money in there. And they're
trying to figure out, well, maybe we could access
some of these funds, right? So there was some
pilfering starting to happen there. But private
equity really was just getting going. Some of
your, if you're a man and you're married, you
probably have a wife. who in 1990 if you're that
old watched a movie with um called uh pretty
woman my wife recently tried to get me to watch
that movie which i've somehow been able to avoid
my whole life i made it through one hour and
i said i'm sorry i love you but i have to bail
so i have no idea how the movie ends but i do
know this it's a 19 it came out in 1990 and it's
a film about a guy who runs private equity and
he goes in and buys companies he breaks them
all apart sells off the parts there's more money
there and then he goes off leverage buyout so
we're this is blackstone that they're basically
remodeling off of right and um and this is what
they're in this is the business well what happened
in the 90s private equity wanted access to that
pension film money and they want to have more
and more and so what they started doing about
30 years ago Between 20 to 30 years ago, they
started to go around to every city and every
county and every state and said, even though
public pensions are public and all the money
in there and all the documents are open to public
scrutiny, our contracts are trade secrets. And
so they can't be shared. And so we have funds
that make so much money, it'll be great for you
guys to participate. But you have to sign an
NDA that you will not share or disclose anything
about this. So much so is that the public doesn't
even know what the investments of those funds
are being used for or who else is part of that
fund. They don't know anything. And so 30 years
ago, you could learn anything. 20 years ago,
you could learn some things. And 10 years ago,
you could see nothing. Nobody can. Even with
the Freedom of Information Act going in and requesting
it, you can't. And this part, no one believes
me, but you'll see in the trailer as I show like
one person after another who are board members
on these pension funds. None of them are allowed
to see the contracts that are signed by the staff.
to the private equity firms. Now the fiduciaries,
the board members, they're the boss. They can
hire fire staff. They choose what they're going
to be investing in, what percentage. They have
to sign off on every single thing. Everything.
But they're not allowed to see anything as it
relates to those contracts. Nothing. And what's
in those contracts? Well, you have to see the
movie, but it's crazy stuff. The fees that they're
having to pay, are insane. It's just a giant
pilfering. And so 30 years ago, if you were to
take all these funds, there's, and you just,
you just take off one to 2 % of that money a
year and you let it compound, it equals the original
value of the fund. So if I start with a hundred
dollars right now, James, you give me a hundred
bucks and I'm going to manage your hundred dollars.
And I take 1 % or 2 % of that, okay, of your
$100 as a management fee. And I let it compound.
Every year I'm taking it from you. And 30 years
from now, that $100 is now in my pocket. I have
$100 in my pocket that came from that 1 % to
2 % of your fees, okay? That's just how this
works. You, on the other hand, your money would
have grown, but that $100 isn't there anymore,
right? It's with me. So it's a double of the
principle. We are in a situation that there's
every single public pension had plenty of money
in America to meet every promise ever made. But
it's all been stolen by excessive fees going
to private equity and no fiduciary was allowed
to see it. So that's what's going on. Now, you're
going to say, well, wait a second. How could
this happen? You're taking the biggest piles
of money that we got in America right now, the
biggest piles of money that the treasurer, the
state treasurer in South Carolina, who was the
single board member, was not allowed to see the
contracts. He would have to just wire money.
He couldn't even see what it's going to. And
yeah, I have him in my film. He does exactly
that. And it's like that in every single state.
They have no idea. No idea. There's zero fiduciary.
So how does this happen? Well, to understand
how it happens, we have to get out of what we're
even talking about. And we need to go and go
over to something else private equity was very
involved in. These guys are smart. Hats off to
them. They put the work out. They went to every
city, every state and said, hey, if you want
to be part of this, then you all have to agree.
And no one has broken it. There's not one city,
one county. 500 separate pension funds in florida
alone not one of them's ever broke think about
that and it's amazing that's amazing right i
mean think about how everybody leaks something
somewhere no leaks no that's really impressive
like yeah hey america we can do stuff you know
you have to have get paid a lot um okay so So
let's get over to what happened. And this gets
back to a Supreme Court thing that happened in
2010. Prior to that, we had this thing called
Citizens United. And what happened is we had
these political action committees, and they were
actually known as super PACs. They became super
PACs because private equity and major corporations
were putting money into these blind, dark super
PACs. They could put it wherever they want. You
and I, if we donate money to a political campaign,
that's disclosed. That's public record. People
could see this. But you could, as a corporation,
put money into a super PAC, and there's a total
veil of secrecy. And so, you know, that's impossible
to be upheld. Supreme Court upheld it. So now,
like, what are you going to do about it? So then
it went crazy after that, okay? The amount of
monies that went into these super PACs was huge.
And it got to the point, and by the way, everyone
should know that I'm not politically aligned
with a party. I can't for the films I do. I do
non -partisan films, right? And we're the same
there anyway. What's that? I said we're the same,
standing in the middle. We kind of have to do
what we do, right? And it's nice. Okay, so. So
it doesn't matter if you're in Ohio, which is
a Republican state, or Minnesota, which is a
Democrat state, or Pennsylvania, which is a purple
state, right? It doesn't matter. It all works
the exact same way. Every governor, state treasurer,
attorney general, all of them have a super PAC.
They have a super PAC. They have a political
action committee. They have one. And that's where
people put money, not just... you and me, but
that's where the corporations are putting them
out. That's where the private equity is putting
their money. So what's really happening is you're
Blackstone, you're BlackRock. They're two separate
people. You may not know, but they're both like
these equally huge funds that have a massive
power. In fact, the Wall Street Journal today
said, if you take BlackRock, State Street and
Vanguard, the money they manage. That's 30 %
of all stocks in the United States. They own
30%. That's crazy, right? So anyway, so we're
talking about a lot of money. So they're taking
money from a public pension that the staff's
signing off on. And by the way, the staff's pay
have roughly doubled over the last three to four
years. Unless you think about that one. So they
sign off on these things that the fighting shares
can't even see at all what it's for. They can't
see, oh, hey, this. Anyway, I'm not going to
tell you what the things I've already discovered
what these are going to. So they take some of
those excessive fees and they'll drop it in as
an insurance policy, right, into these super
PACs for the governor, for the attorney general.
And then. the governor, attorney general are
standing guard. And so let's say you're Ohio.
Let's say that you are a group who have a pitch
like stirs the teachers in Ohio. They're being
completely screwed. So they've gone, you know,
like a decade and a half without getting a COLA
and they don't get social security. And so they're
electing people on the board to be. people that
kind of come in and fix this, you know, and really
they want transparency. They want to get the
state to put more money in to fill in this hole
and stuff like that. So what does the governor
do? He goes in and pulls back his representatives
that he placed there who were doing this kind
of stuff. Oh my gosh, that's one of my appointees
doing this. Hey, you're out, right? And the guy's
like, you can't take me out. You can only put
me in. Remember Trump, like I said, I put in
Powell as the FDA chair. you're out of there
like you can't take me out unless it's wrongdoing
you can't take me out and this guy did the same
thing so what happens um there's a lawsuit in
the meantime he's off so that whole year the
governor gets executive on there's not a majority
and then the next year he's back on and there's
this other guy in there now and now they're getting
a majority now they want to not pay the staff
their bonuses which is double their pay by the
way yeah you're making 400 500 000 and you meet
your bonus you get $500 ,000. And what's your
bonus off of? Is it off of anything in what the
stock market is doing? Is there a certain...
No. The bar set, it has to match your performance.
That's like, I mean, man, I don't even know how
to... Could you imagine that, James? A firefighter
is like, okay, what's the standard? Your performance.
So first day, you go out, you do a run. That's
your performance. So a year from now, excessive
training, you got to... Do what you did the first
day. So run slow. Right? I mean, that, I'm not
joking. That is how it is right now across our
country. Crazy. That's really happening. So they
always get double their pay. So these guys were
getting double their pay, but they had lost $5
billion of $100 billion. They lost $5 billion.
They lost 5 % that year. And the board said,
I don't know. I don't know. Call me just. I don't
know, strange or whatever. I'm thinking you shouldn't
get a bonus when you lose $5 billion. Like none
of the teachers are getting a COLA this year.
We have less money in the fund than we did last
year because you lost $5 billion. So no bonus
for you. What happened? The attorney general
shows up, calls a special meeting, gets the board
back and says, if you don't give these guys their
bonus, I'm suing all of you for breach of your
fiduciary duty. And it wasn't an empty threat
because he was suing two other people. It costs
$250 ,000 to defend against that. For a job,
you get paid nothing as a fiduciary. And you
can get representation, unless you want to pay
for it. You can get free representation, but
it's whatever counsel that attorney general who
is suing you assigns to your case. Oh, my goodness.
If this is starting to feel like, huh. That's
just, okay, that's a Republican. I can go in
and show you every state what's going on. It's
all the same, all right? Just trust me on this
one thing. So now let's get to the unions. The
unions also, not all of them, some of them are
really great, really great. There's a union I
filmed in Rhode Island. They absolutely represent
their workers. They are just rock solid awesome.
Those guys hired Ted Sedell, actually hired for
an investigation. They've been making all kinds
of great changes happening there. The treasurer
and the staff had disclosed that they were paying
$8 million in fees to private equity as a result
of the investigation. Today, they disclose, okay,
we pay $188 million in fees. Minnesota, he did
an investigation there. He did an investigation
there. This isn't true or whatever else. And
then they just kind of quietly notated on the
next report an increase of 400 % in the fees
that they've been paying. Oh, my God. So it's
like that, okay? It's like that. And that's not
even really coming up for the whole thing. It's
way worse. So these unions, some of the unions
got greedy. and i want to compare it's a bad
comparison i want to compare it to our streaming
services whether it's like amazon prime or whether
it's like you know all hulu and all these ones
right there's a lot of things that we were ad
free i paid money like 14 15 bucks a month and
i'm ad free and then magic wand all of them right
almost like the first two months same two months
decided uh oh we're gonna throw ads back in you
can be ad free if you pay an additional whatever
your unions who decided to just take you for
granted just like amazon's decided netflix which
i don't even subscribe because it's a bunch of
coffee lane i don't even like movies i don't
know why i make it i like to make them exposés
but i don't like to watch i know i'm really weird
i decided that my wife's like oh my gosh i'm
gonna read a book um so so Amazon, and once they
get fat and happy and get rid of a lot of their
competitors, they just take their clients for
granted. And they just want more money. And now
they're going to bore us with advertisements
too, right? And so unions are doing this, unfortunately.
Too many unions have super PACs. All right? They've
got them too, just like the governor's got them.
just like the attorney general has them. I want
you to think about this just for a minute. Imagine
you decide to run for governor and the governor
you're running against, whatever your political
party is, it's the other party, right? You're
this party, it's the other one. And the other
one has a super PAC. Or they could put unlimited
amount of money in this thing, dark money, nothing's
disclosed, unlimited. And you're going out there
earning $25 a person, knocking on doors, whatever
you have to do to collect it. What chances do
you honestly have to win? And that's the situation.
You've got to understand that this situation
is coming 100 % from monies that are in your
retirement account right now. All the money that's
screwing everything up, and we're not even talking
about what they're using the money for. That's
a whole other conversation, but I do show some
gross examples. But all that money that's coming
in is coming in from our public pensions without
the fiduciaries being able to sign off or see.
No one's going to say anything, and they control
the whole thing. Now, if you're feeling uncomfortable
when you actually think about this, You might
say, well, wait a second. That doesn't even sound
like, I mean, it sounds almost hopeless, right?
You've got to understand, you hold the power
to turn this whole thing around. The very thing
you need to do so that your hours go back to
so you don't get cancer and are repressed unreasonably
in your job, right? The very thing to do that
is what you need to do. to save your pension
because you will not have the retirement you
think you have absolutely you won't uh you won't
it um well we'll talk put a pin in that i'll
tell you that but the the you either have to
replace your union with another one or you have
to get back control of your union and demand
it And you have to have that threat. It has to
be that unified. And the way to do it isn't for
your hours. The way to do it is for your money.
Because if private equity is told, if the public
pensions have to be transparent like they were
30 years ago, where all documents are there,
there's not a private equity firm, as far as
most of those, that would ever allow their contracts
to be. held up to public scrutiny. Because what's
in there? They're agreeing to pay, the staff's
agreeing to pay the taxes for the private equity.
They're agreeing that in the event that I am
engaged in illegal activity, I, because you're
an entity that has to be transparent, you are
acknowledging and revoking your right for me
to disclose that to you. Which means, You just
signed a document that says, I could go break
the law with your money and you agree that it's
fine. Then they agree to indemnify the person,
like all the craziest crap you'd ever see. Like
it just, that's all in the chronic contracts.
And then the fees and the verbiage is so difficult
to understand. It's so industry specific that
the average attorney and certainly the average
staff investor guy. they would never understand
it most private equity people which by the way
it's difficult it's easier to get into harvard
than it is to get a job with blackstone statistically
um most of those people reading those contracts
would not understand these are very specific
industry specific things and uh there are tools
that and if if your footage here is of your board
could read those they wouldn't understand them
And so it's not about them reading it. It's about
it being publicly available for everyone to read
so that a Ted Soudal, a real true pension expert
could go through all of them, inform the public.
This was a means to get the media involved and
all that and shout that whole thing out. It would
be gone. They would not ever get their money
from public pensions anymore. And if they didn't,
they're back into a reasonable box. Okay. And
that would mean. They would need to put and have
an interest to put quite as much in to block,
to protect all this stuff to their governor and
attorney general, super PACs and the unions.
Because this is why the unions are getting them.
They're getting the money from them. And the
big why is because everyone wants access to these
funds. Why does that? Now, I want you to think
about, well, wait a second. Okay, so my union
has a super PAC. Why would a... private equity
be interested in putting that money into my union
super PAC? What's the problem with that? What
the problem with that is, the only people who
have the power to really fight this and change
things is your union. They're the ones. And they're
neutered. Completely neutered now. They're doing
nothing. Nothing. Not just that. They are blocking
the investigations. And we've got the documents
proving it where they were involved in emails
and everything else, you know, with the governor
and everyone else. What are we going to do? We've
got to stop this investigation. We can't have
it happen. They stop it every time. Now, not
all of them. I mean, like I said, Rhode Island's
union actually paid for it. But, you know, unfortunately,
a lot of these national unions absolutely stop
it. They stop it. And so you have like the teachers.
in Minnesota, Democrat teachers, right? Liberal
Democrat teachers, Minnesota. This one I filmed
two blocks away from where George Floyd had his
incidents. That's where she lives. And she's
great. I mean, I get along with this gal so well.
And she just, she goes, I don't even know what
I am anymore politically. I mean, they came out
with this investigation and when the report was
ready, Right then it was time to publish it.
Their governor, what's his name? Mike Waltz is,
it becomes the vice president candidate with
Harris for the Democrat ticket to run for president.
And it's right when this investigation came out.
And so all these liberal Democrat teachers who
were getting screwed, I mean, really screwed
what was happening to them. They're like, I don't
know if we should release this report. This is
going to be bad for our party. So they had to
deal with that. And they had their own mini war
back and forth. Should we do this? Should we
not do this? And I was like, oh, man, that is
brilliant. That really worked out great. I couldn't
have timed that better. And of course, the guy
doing it, he actually wasn't a Trump supporter.
I mean, I shouldn't say that, but Ted Sedell
is definitely not a MAGA guy, for sure. And he
didn't want to do anything bad, but it wasn't
a political thing. He was like, this is information
that has to come forward. Timing's timing, like
whatever. And so how much of the media covered
this report in the state of Minnesota? Nothing.
Nothing covered it. No one covered it. To this
day, no one's covered it. There was like some
small, they don't have much of a footprint, conservative
people in that state. They got some little small
independents here, but it wasn't picked up by
anyone else there. They got some national people
covered it, but it wasn't that. So we're up against
a real fight here. This is really, really difficult.
And so this movie I'm making, what I've done
is I've interviewed all these whistleblowers
who have been working on these boards. I'm filming
state senators, state treasurers, some media
people. investigative journalists that have been
kind of muzzled because they're newspapers owned
also by private equity, right? If you follow
what's going on, it's difficult. Where am I going
to release this? I started thinking about that,
man, man, man, all these platforms, if it goes
here, they could pull this people, this have,
they could pull it down. I put it here, they
could pull it. And I mean, I'm really thinking
about doing a different kind of release than
I've ever done because, because of that. It's
difficult, right? It's really challenging. But
you're the closest to the source to make a change.
And you are the most financially and physically
interested in the problem. Your physical frame
is destroyed with the hours they're having you
work. That has to change uniformly across the
country. It has to. Retirement accounts are being,
they're lying to you about what's in there. They're
saying, so let's say you're in, name a state,
California, you know, we're 80 % funded or whatever,
70 % funded. Chicago, you're screwed. And they
could bankrupt on you. But if you're in California,
they'll say, hey, we're 80 % or 70 % funded.
That assumes that all this money they're putting
in private equity, that the stated values are
accurate. So every year, these public pensions
are audited. And it's a legitimate audit. It
really is. I mean, I'm not suggesting anything's
wrong with the audit when you read the fine print
or even right on the front page. And what they
were saying is, we are only looking at what we
have access to. So they could see, hey, here's
the S &P 500. You had 30 % of the funds in S
&P 500. Here's what you say it did. Here's what
it did. Yeah, this is all accurate. But what
they can't do is say, oh, you got this 40 % right
here, and it's in private equity. They're not
allowed to see the contracts as the auditor.
They're not allowed to go in and do any kind
of true audit on those funds that BlackRock has
and everybody else. I'm just naming as an example
on whoever it is, Apollo or whatever. They don't
have the ability to go in and look at that. And
so there's this thing called marked. to market.
And that doesn't exist in private equity funds.
The fund manager gets to say what the value of
his fund is worth. And everybody has to just
go with that. So if the market were to suddenly
drop 15%, everything drops 15%. You know, think
about 2008. What happened in 2008, right? Huge
crash. Real estate, huge crash. All assets, huge
crash. Private equity, same. Okay, that's the
story. And so when you're sitting there going,
how come, like this CalPERS whistleblower said,
we have these old dogs. We have investments that
we've made in private equity that are on the
books since the early 1990s, and they're unchanged.
Clearly, those things didn't do anything. They're
worthless. But they're not making a change. There's
an example of this. It's called Panda Power.
Panda Power was some new energy kind of thing
out of Texas. And the STRS Ohio Public Pension
had invested $525 million in this Panda Power
investment. One of their members went down to
Houston and read in the Chronicle that that company
had just gone bankrupt. I mean, it was a stick
in your fork kind of bankruptcy, right? And so
they went back and said, well, hey, that can't
be good, right? So they went in and met with
the fund manager, the staff at the Ohio. state
teachers retirement thing and said hey um we're
looking through all these this investment in
panda power what's the value of that listed there
we see it's listed listed as 525 million dollars
what's the current value of it right now because
we saw that it went bankrupt and they said well
it's zero How come it says on here 525 million?
Well, we talked about it. It would be a negative
thing if we made a big deal about it, right?
So they go, don't worry. We've already absorbed
it. We've absorbed this. And the end result was
they had the guy, the fund manager who was over
it at the time, got his bonus. And then was promoted
to the chief investment officer at that fund.
So there's a lot of that going on. So anyway,
you got any questions? This is, I think I called
you because I was like, I know why this is happening,
why you're having so much resistance. I get why
the unions are no longer working for you. They're
working for their super PAC. They're working
for someone else now. They're getting. They got
a lot of money there and it's wrong. But that's
why. And as bad as it is for your work right
now, your retirement's even worse unless you
turn this around. And it all starts back there.
That's where it starts. Just to clarify, the
unions in question, not the ones as you highlighted,
you know, the Rhode Island ones that are actually
bucking the system and doing what's right for
their men and women. What is happening behind
closed doors that is causing this shift from
fighting for their people to this self -interest
that I keep seeing all the way through to the
national level? I imagine it's the private equity
knocking on the door and seducing them. Because
that's what it's been when I interviewed State.
senators treasurers everybody else i kind of
understand how it happens you know they come
in and they're they're they're very good i mean
they're getting the best of the best they got
the most money and money is very difficult to
turn down so you know you look a little bit they
might be helpful for a little bit they do this
and this but at some point it just ends up There's
a shift. You will know based on the responsiveness
to your union whether they have a super PAC or
not without even looking. Then you're going to
look and you go, oh, my gosh, there it is. It's
all right there. It's not. It's what it is. So
the thing is, they're only powerful because they've
got your money. They're literally, where's this
book? They're stealing the money. But they're
stealing it legally. They've been able to go
in. Remember, this is different. Okay, I did
something else interesting, James. I asked ChatGDP,
which I never do because a search with ChatGDP
takes 10 times more energy than a Google search.
And that's another problem, right? But I said...
How many bankruptcies happen in America? How
much money is out there? It's like $3 .5 million.
How many is like 3 ,300? I can't remember. 1
,700 bank robbers. They collect like $3 .3 million.
It works out to be $3 ,300 a hit. That's it.
$3 ,300 for a bank robbery. Bank robberies are
so yesterday. Never rob a bank. Instead. Get
a job as a staffer for the investments portion
of your public pension. That's where you're going
to make money. You're really good. Either control
the super PAC money, whoever they are doing that
for the unions or for the governors or whoever,
or, you know, become, start, be one of the 4
,000 plus private equity firms out there. There
used to be 40 in the 80s. Now there's over 4
,000. And it's really what's going, if you haven't
been paying attention, how many public companies
are going private. The private equity are buying
them and bringing them private. And all their
contracts, everything, they redact everything.
The veil of secrecy that they get away with and
how they end up, they're so good at going into
the states and everyone else, like they figured
it out. They're just really great at it. And
the people fighting it make zero dollars. I mean,
they make nothing. Your fiduciaries are making
nothing to be on that board. And yet if they
fight it, like in Ohio, the guy's fighting it.
It's a $250 ,000 fight. With what money? They
were like a teacher. How's that supposed to happen?
And so it's a tough thing. And I don't know that
that's the place to fight. I'm saying. The real
fight is your representatives. Like, that's it.
Like, right now, this is where it needs to be.
I don't see how we can really move forward without
unions. I think that we have to have unions now
more than ever because of all this stuff that's
happening, you know? Back in the 80s, early 80s,
the average CEO I heard, I haven't fact -checked
this, but it was a pretty reliable source, I
think. They were making, the average CEO was
making five to eight times pay of their average
employee. Today, the average CEO makes 500 to
800 times their average employee. And so, you
know, you look at that and go, okay, I mean,
I'm freaking out. How's this going to work? You
know, most of the new gigs, most of the private
equity, those are not union shops. It's not going
that route. And it's not great paid. It's not
a great deal. And everyone's getting cut and
with AI coming out and everything else. Even
the Screen Actors Guild. The Screen Actors Guild,
a couple, three years ago, hired Edward Sedell
to represent them because of the future AI thing
and all this crap that was happening. They had
just cut the health care for all their seniors
during COVID. right jesus so um uh so so i'm
not i'm not i actually see the value of these
unions like i really see the value of you you
need these unions to accomplish what you need
by yourselves it's not enough like you have to
have all of that together but they have to represent
you they just have to really represent you and
and and so the fight is on now like that is it
it is i'm just telling you when you see the film
you will see um you will not be able to retire
yeah all those people who retired out of detroit
in 2010 by now are sitting at walmart handing
out shopping carts they could not still be able
to pay a bill not on 10 cents on the dollar 25
cents on the dollar like there's no way See,
this is one thing I've said many, many times.
I am a huge believer in the union philosophy,
but I am also someone that just looks at actions.
Like I don't need to be too forensic and things
like, are you doing what you're doing? Are you
doing what you said you're going to do? And if,
for example, you're a fire union and you are
not even addressing. something as basal as the
standardized work week, especially if now your
department where you're from works in this case
of 2472, and you're not even advocating for the
rest of the country that are getting murdered.
I don't need to do anything of it. I can see
that you're not doing anything. Is this Boston?
Is this Boston doing this? Yes, it is indeed.
And there was, again, great, great hope. I'm
not even a firefighter in the union, and I know
that. And before that was Fairfax, Virginia,
who those poor people still work 56. So, again,
their supposed union god, who became the national
union guy, who was pilfering, by the way, he
didn't even fix his own fire department. You
know what I mean? So this is the thing. It's
not about the union philosophy. It's the human
beings that you put in these places. If they
are not doing the thing, then they are not doing
the thing. And like you said, if there's a reason
because their pockets are being lined, the same
way as I'm rewatching Dope Sick for the third
time because I'm interviewing the real lawyer
from that tomorrow. You know, you work for the
FDA, you approve this drug, and now all of a
sudden you're working for Purdue Pharma. Again,
we already know what the fuck is going on. You
know, that's clear. That's why they got that
approval in the first place. It's the same deal
with the staff and private equity. It's, it's
that, it's that exactly. That is the hope. And
they get like greased skids. There's, there's
ways to get money to these people. Yeah, exactly.
So I care about the men and women that are in
the trenches that are doing the work. And, you
know, firstly, we need to get, you know, like
I said, the work weeks. And because if you tell
someone, oh, you've got 10 years and then you're
going to be broke. A lot of these firefighters,
you know, well, we die within five anyway. So
it's not even an issue. That's so backwards the
way we should be thinking. But it's backwards.
You fix the money piece, then you actually are
able to get your yins to give you your work piece.
Exactly. Does that make sense? No, it doesn't.
Can you see that? That's exactly it. Can you
see why this has been happening? I was like,
oh, man. I was just sitting in here editing away,
and then just all of a sudden I thought, ah,
James. This will probably tell James. So to underline
that again, because we have so many men and women
who not only will, you know, do 25, 30 years,
but then we have what we call the drop program
where they'll stay for even more years because
they'll basically air quotes double dip. Thinking
that this carrot on the stick is going to be
the be all and end all, then they move to our
state and they're going to play golf for decades
after that. And the reality from the health point
is more often than not, they're not going to
have a long and healthy retirement because they
worked themselves into the ground. But let's
just underline again, this pension that these
first responders and these other employees in
cities and states and counties and federal. That
one thing that keeps them going, so they're going
to retire and play with their grandkids for several
decades. If everything stays as it is, what is
the reality of those pensions? If everything
stays what it is, those pensions aren't going
to grow enough because they're being pilfered.
So much of the funds are going into private equity,
which is locked away for an undisclosed, who
knows how long period of time. And they're not
getting the returns that they're saying they're
getting. They're lying. And the other part of
that is it's impossible to make up for an underfunded
pension by getting better returns. So you would
have to, if you go one year. now this is scary
but if you go one year as a pension and you pay
out just one percent too much right one percent
differential between collecting and paying out
one percent one year it takes seven years of
over market returns to make up for it it takes
seven years to make up for it I guarantee you,
almost everybody that I'm talking to, that last
five out of eight years, they've done that. It
would take 40 years. And they're never going
to get all 40. They'd be lucky if they get five
of them that they outperform. So it's impossible.
So there's a legislative requirement that they
actually place more dollars from the state into
the public pension fund. Has to happen. Cities
have to do it. Counties have to do it. States
have to do it. Federal government has to do it.
It has to. There's no other way for that to be
fixed. The other thing is you have to stop the
leakage. And that's coming from private equity.
And what's going on is investigations and the
big stink is being blocked by the unions. So
the very people. Who the unions are supposed
to represent, you know, the people, your firefighter,
right? Or police or whoever's listening. Too
many of these unions are stopping any discussion
here, stopping investigations. They say they
do this and that, but they, you know. And so,
and because of that, if you're a firefighter,
for example, and you're like, I got. to get some
relief my body is being destroyed i've got to
get one more day off like i just that will change
everything right um your union's not doing it
because the union's getting you know greased
from private equity funds into their super packs
and so that's why it's happening and the only
way that this is going to stop and and so they're
not going to listen to you about your physical
needs until you fix the money problem So you've
got to take over that. Take it back. Take the
union back and say, no, you have to represent
me, not them anymore. Stop participating in the
super PACs. Just stop. Don't do politics ever
again. We're done taking money from private equity.
Why are you taking money from them? Like you
can see the behavior. It's so clear. They're
bought. So the moment they stop. Say no. Now
they're going to be interested in helping you,
your retirement. And now they're going to go
expose all that crap. And then their pressure,
oh man, everything goes because you're a voting
bloc and everything else. Now this governor's
got to decide. But once that pressure gets to
that point, they're like, okay, we're going to
go transparent. Once they go transparent, private
equity's gone and the whole thing's done well.
Does that make sense? And so then your union's
able to help you with what you want. You're going
to have a retirement. They'll be able to put
the pressure on the state. We'll put the money
in because, you know, they got to have firefighters.
They got a police officer. They put the money
in, fully fund you guys back up. Now they could
just put the money in basic bonds that are inflation
protected, that just grows like it should. Nothing
crazy is going on like it used to be when everything
was fine in the 90s and early 90s. 50 years leading
up to the early 90s, everything was fine, right?
This is a new problem, and it's no mystery why
it's happening. You see the same behavior in
so many areas. You talk to a lot of the veterans
or people that are just kind of well -educated
in the economy world, and you talk to them about
war. And, you know, where are the checks and
balances when there's so many people that pay
politicians billions of dollars, literally, where
are the checks and balances to stop sending our
men and women to war, our children overseas,
when you are going to profit from it? Where are
the checks and balances when you make so much
money from fast food companies and tobacco companies
and, you know, pharmaceutical companies and health
insurance companies when people are fat and sick?
Where is the checks and balance to, you know,
to stop that? And this is the same human issue
that we see here. You know, I've had, I'll give
you a perfect example. The Florida Fire Chiefs
Association, where I did a presentation, did
like a Q &A panel on the 2472. After Governor
DeSantis signed in a bill saying they recommended
a 42 -hour workweek in the fire service here,
Danny Alvarez put forward. They actually put
an email amongst themselves saying that we oppose
the 42 hour work week. Now, to be clear, these
are people that go home at five o 'clock every
night, Monday to Friday, work 40 hours. And they
are saying that our firefighters don't deserve
to work less than 56 and basically deal with
the recruitment crisis that they created that's
now causing mandatory overtime. So 80 plus hour
work weeks. So, you know, until you pull that
out into the spotlight and say. There are zero
fucking ethics going on here whatsoever. And
it's not about helping other people. You are
just helping yourself at the expense of other
people, whether it's the nation's health or the
provocation of war constantly, or the health
and wellbeing of our first responders. Then I
agree with you a hundred percent. It should be
literally torches and pitchforks figuring out
who's been fucking you over. And then find the
good people because they are. Dixon Phillips,
Pasco County, I'll give you a perfect example.
That's the kind of person that you want at the
head of your union. So there are some phenomenal
people out there. But if it is rotten, you have
to clean house. It's as simple as that. So one
thing I just want to make a point of, you just
talked about money. You're trying to stop the
wars, stop the excess of things happening. The
crap that's happening to health care and everything
else, right? You mentioned those issues. I just
want to say, where do you think that money's
coming from? Same. And the answer is from your
retirement account at your public pension. That's
that public, those private equity dollars, that
power they've got. It's not like it's really
theirs. They're using your money to do it. It's
your money. Like, like all you have to do is
stop them using your money. And almost all of
the things that we're so frustrated with, with,
with private equity, buying out everybody's houses,
buying out all these manufactured homes, the,
you know, and raising the lot fees. And cause
they're stuck. I mean, this happened here in
Florida. There's a guy, there's a guy who, who
does plumbing on my house. It's only charges
like 30 bucks an hour. He's older. He's great.
And lives in a manufactured home. And his lot
rate went from 200 to 880 in a month. And he's
like, well, I can't pay that. But to move his
thing to somewhere else costs 20 grand. So he
doesn't have that. So what's he going to do?
Well, he keeps paying it until he can't pay the
money. BK's out. He's done. And that's going
on all across America. Retirement centers, the
kind that have to get a little bit of help, that
group, they've been bought out by private equity
as well. And you see a 12 % increase in deaths
when private equity buys out a retirement center.
They're buying out all the for -profit hospitals
right now. They're anticipating a 10 % increase
in deaths in emergency rooms. So that's what's
happening. And they're doing it with your...
retirement money right your money and and and
most people most of their public pensions they're
taking some of your paycheck and they're putting
it into these accounts it's not like the state's
paying all this stuff you know in most cases
the people are paying more than the state is
so that and um yeah all right well that's that's
in a nutshell man we've we got this hour 12.
that's exactly The length I'm hoping for this
movie. So there we go. You watched the whole
movie. Brilliant. It's funny you say about the
retirement homes because Rick, who's coming on
tomorrow, the real lawyer from the Purdue Pharma
case, he now is spearheading a case exactly what
you're talking about, the nursing homes. And
they got a documentary called No Place for Old
People. No country for old people, kind of spin
on the other film. But it's blowing that open.
And a lot of us listening, we know we've been
in these horrendous nursing homes. And it's not
that there are evil nurses, you know, looking
around everywhere. It's usually woeful understaffing,
you know, poor conditions, you know, just cramming
these patients in. The isolation they experienced
during COVID was horrendous. And again, the nefarious
nature behind it, that these people are literally,
as they call them, human warehouses. They're
just shelving these humans and taking the money.
And so it seems like blowing open this issue,
there's so many areas that we could improve if
we take the power away from exactly what you're
talking. But the reason why there's skin in the
game in this conversation is it's literally going
to affect every first responder that believes
that this golden egg, this nest egg that they're
building through 20 plus years. they're going
to be able to live on for another 20, 30 years.
One part of that conversation I'm not going to
have tomorrow, but I will tell you what's going
on, is when that private equity firm got the
money to buy those, first, they went to your
public pension staff and sat down and did a presentation
and said, look, we're going to buy these retirement
centers and we're going to be able to run them
differently to extract higher profit margins.
And it's going to mean 15 % return for your public
pension. And all they saw was 15%. Ethics is
gone. Moral consequence is over. Whether you're
talking about the California public pension funds,
it doesn't matter the state. Nobody cares. They
just want this high return. And so I'm just telling
you, all the bad that's happening is happening
with our public dollars, with the public pensions.
And it's pretty interesting. That's the why though.
This is the why. This is how it's happening and
how you close it up. And it's really a function
of taking back control of your unions and say,
no, no more of that. We're done. It's sad. It's
very timely as well because two companies that
I had a great relationship with a few years,
I've watched that same issue happen to them.
where they've come in, they've gutted them from
the inside. And again, they were successful because
they were doing it right. And they had great
people and they created great products. And it's
heartbreaking. I've spoken to so many people
that they poured their heart and soul into these
companies. And now they're basically all but
looking for somewhere else to work in different
cases. So you're also destroying American industry.
I mean, we've known this since 1990. It was so
common that they even put it in Pretty Woman.
This is how private equity does it, right? It's
exactly what they do. No one's arguing about
them not making money. They themselves always
make money. They do great. The public pensions
are the third tier. Nobody cares about them.
They're considered the dumb money. They're not
necessarily making money. But they need it. They
need it. And the whole 401k that everyone's getting
excited about putting money in private, public
pensions, excuse me, in private equity. Trump's
been, you know, making a big deal about that.
Open up 10 % of your 401k to put it there so
that you can get these high returns, not just
this, this institutional money, but now the common
guy could get their big example as well. All
these pensions like private equity, like public
pensions, like helpers are doing it. Yeah. They
are. They're not getting their return. They're
being lied to. And there's no way you'll ever
be able to read a contract yourself. You have
no idea what's going on. So and you're locked
away for a very, very, very long time. Well,
very long time. So, yeah, lots and lots of things
that are interesting. And there's a there's a
role for private equity and there are good private
equity plays that actually are interested in
growing the economy and everything else. But
then there's the evil stuff. And it's the other
side. Just like everything, you know, look, this
is life. This is nature. This is everything.
You've got a positive and negative on everything,
right? You just do. And so it's the negative
side that's taken over like an invasive weed.
It's just taken over everywhere. And we just
need to kind of get it back under control, more
in a box, more contained. Let them get money
from, you know, just normal money like everyone
else has to get. and don't just open up all the
public pensions and um because with that comes
no more representation by your union no more
representation by your elected state elected
officials why would they listen to you and the
little poultry sums of money that you give them
when they're going to get three or six zeros
on the end of it from the private from the you
know there's just that's just how it works and
so um it even makes it so that you can't be a
candidate and run for public office effectively.
Why doesn't the Senate, why doesn't the Congress
change this? Because all of them have super PACs.
There's no way you can get a quorum to do that.
The only thing we can do is to stop our public
monies going into them. And that's it. So I'm
doing the expose and I'm going to probably stay
in this space and document. All the effort. So
if you guys start making a major effort in one
of your states, I want to hear from you. I want
to come out and film you guys making this effort
and document for other people to see and model.
I'm going to have some kind of internal place
and just show like series and episodes of all
real, not on YouTube because they'll pull it
down. I mean, it's just on my own. So I'll figure
it out. I'm thinking about charging everybody
a dollar, something like that. So I got a plan.
A cheap plan for everybody. But I think that's
the way I'll go. So if you want to find out more
about this film or find out when it comes out,
please go to conmovies .com. So it's C -O -N,
movies, plural, conmovies .com. And the first
thing listed is a subscribe thing. Just subscribe.
And then I will send you information as this
thing comes out. And that'll be like step one
for a lot of people. I want to get to really
highlighting the solution. But just before we
do, you kind of alluded to we don't know what's
being done with that money. And I can think of
some current state of affairs where funding certain
conflicts overseas, I would be disgusted if my
pension money was being used for that. So talk
to me a little bit more about that. About what
it's being used for or where that's going? Either
or. How? Okay, so you could look up your public
pension fund and you could see which funds they're
in. And they have to do an investigation on the
funds and see where that money's kind of gone.
But you end up kind of lost at some point, all
right? There are some things that have come out
for one reason or another that we do know about.
I told you about something environmentally that
was kind of crazy. Should I share that story?
Yeah, please. Especially for people in this state,
they're going to be disgusted. I don't know how
much I want to share about it yet. But all of
us are familiar with Apple saying we're going
to be carbon neutral by the year 2030. If you
saw their big release two years ago, one of their
iPhone, whatever number it was. it uh it showed
mother nature some famous actor who i don't remember
her name but she's coming in act like mother
nature and apple did their own you know played
themselves and a bunch of things sitting around
mother nature and then they were saying but but
but we're being good we're trying to be we're
going to be carbon neutral at 2030 and it was
it was so lame and they were just talking about
all the things they were doing environmentally
it was a big you know accolade thing and um and
i was impressed i was like wow i mean i i gotta
i'm i'm talking on a mac right here you know
i got they get a lot of money for me and um and
so what if that's not true what if none of it's
true they may not even know it's true um and
i will i work with people that i'm doing on another
project who have They're not environmentalists
because they say environmentalism, the term is
actually bought out by corporations now. And
the environmental movement is not environmental
movement. It's not conservation. It's nothing.
And I'm actually to the point I'm agreeing with
them now because of what I've seen. So I decided
to actually follow the whole life cycle of this
carbon exchange program. I'm Apple. I've got
to make keyboards. I've got to make data centers.
I've got to make all this stuff. And clearly
this is not saving the economy, right? So how
do I do this? I'm going to put some money into
this exchange. In this exchange, there's this
exchange. Someone runs with it. That's what you
want to own, these exchanges. You want to own
the super PAC. Whoever gets to own those, there's
got to be money there. So the money's going to
come in. A little bit comes off for the exchange.
And I think Goron's one of those. And then it
goes over to a company that's planting trees,
right? So I went to one of these companies that
are planting trees. Here's what's interesting.
First, someone got let me in and I went and filmed
it. We have pine forests. They go from Florida
to North Carolina. Most of them, the vast majority
of them, are actually privately owned. And they
are GMO pine trees now. They've gone into a full
forest and they've raised it to the ground. They
cut it all down. And then they build up little
mounds like you do when you plant corn. You have
nice rows that mount it up. They have machines
to do this. And they may drop these pine trees
really close together. And they're GMO trees.
So they don't drop pine cones because they don't
want to mess with them. They don't want a pine
tree growing. anywhere but the spot where they're
going to be able to easily harvest that right
that's all they're going to do but what else
don't they want well they don't want a bunch
of other things grown in a forest that grows
in a forest that makes up an ecosystem so they
crop dust they spray and they spray regularly
so i went in and filmed and from 12 feet down
it was dead everything's dead the trees are alive
because they're gmo trees they're not killed
by the pesticide the herbicide But they spray
the pesticide, the herbicide, just like they
do the corn, GMO cornfields. It does it everywhere.
So where does this runoff go? It goes straight
into the culverts. It goes right down the rivers.
It's going right out into the little bays and
estuaries and everything in Florida. And you've
probably seen we're having a problem with flesh
-eating bacteria. That's really on the rise.
It seems to be kind of correlated to what they've
been up to. They're killing everything. This
is also endocrine -disrupting chemicals, so that
screws up. the whole downline cycle we have seen
such a cut on bugs and birds and everything else
worldwide so this is happening that's here what's
happening up in british columbia british columbia
canada that's like an environmental place right
come on this is the tree hugging they're like
more liberal than california right we're just
hey we're canadians right okay canada british
columbia has been Cutting down virgin, over 1
,000 -year -old forests at a pace for, on average,
the last five years, one football, three, three
football fields worth a day for the past five
years. So you cut down, and in one of these forests,
I'm working with these natives in this university
that works with this native tribe. This native
tribe right now. It is being sued by the British
government, British Columbia government, for
blocking their tribal land from this logging
company to cut down thousand -plus -year -old
trees, right, that they protected in Millennium.
It's theirs. And so they're out there arm -in
-arm, and people are trying to come and join
them. I always think about flying up there and
filming this thing. Middle is pension movie.
And so they had an expert from university come
sit down in an area and just start cataloging
the bugs he's finding. And he identified 200
brand new bugs that's never been identified ever.
Now, I don't know how many bugs you know. I'm
from California. I will tell you, if I went to
interview the average California kid, they would
be lucky if they could come up with 10 bugs that
they even know about. you know they got the roly
-poly the earwig but you know there's a few a
spider or whatever like 10 max this guy finds
200 new ones in addition to everything else they
already know about so what we're talking about
is this rich insanely diverse ecosystem and if
you don't understand why that's valuable it um
for one think about everything it's doing to
purify our air all of that together And what
a thousand -year -old tree, the size and everything
living in it does. And then you cut it down,
this entire forest, and then you get paid from
the carbon exchange to put a tree this big in
the ground, which you plan to cut down in 20
to 40 years. Same thing over here. You couldn't,
in theory, accept, if you're Apple, a carbon
exchange program, right? you couldn't accept
that if the tree is going to be cut down it's
like you plant it in and there it is right that's
a you'd have to never cut it down but everything's
being cut down everything they're canning they're
putting in the ground they're going to cut it
down that's what they do yeah so it's a it's
a really wicked system i know that's not the
question you're asking but i had to share that
and yeah it's all private equity behind that
of course it is and um It's a good business model.
And they're destroying everything. And so as
they do that, that affects our hormones, right?
What they're spraying it with, endocrine disrupting
chemicals. So everybody who thinks they have
to be on TRT, HRT, and all the crap that's happening
to us, very real stuff happening by everything
you eat and everything, it's everywhere. So that
means you're way more likely to get. heart disease
and name it, right? Because you're not balanced.
And that means you're going to be part of the
health system, which just so happens, all these
for -profit hospitals now are being bought out
by private equity, right? It's a common theme
here. You're eventually going to be in a retirement
home earlier than later. You're not going to
be able to age in place. And that's going to
be owned by private equity. Right. So you start
to see how this is really starts to play out.
And so, yeah, these chemical companies are owned
by private equity. It's a full life cycle. We
go in and I've always saw it happening when I
do health films and stuff. You see you see the
life cycle between the chemical company and you
see the pharmaceutical company and you see the
hospital, the surgery and the government. You
see this this beautiful system there. What I
never really got is where's that money really
coming from the first place? And now I got the
piece. Oh, it's where all the money is. It's
our pension. It's our money. But there is the
thing that nobody said. I interviewed everyone
who spent my money. What is the go -to? Like,
what is it that you want? What do we need to
do? No one had it. And I'm like, no, this is
easy. You have to stop them getting your money.
The moment that stops, it all unwinds everywhere.
Suddenly you're not going to see as many wars.
There's not the money there. I'm just telling
you, it all backs out. It all comes in and it's
coming from your public pensions. That's the
big pile of money. So for people listening, let's
say you've got firefighters in the station that
you've got, you know, the teacher who's driving
home, all the people that we're trying to educate
on this specific topic. What can they do today?
to start the process of revealing if this is
even an issue in their city, county, state, and
then beginning the steps to actually undoing
the damage? It's an issue. It's an issue. It's
an issue. If you don't believe it's an issue,
go look at your websites. There's all this information.
And then go in and go to your local board. to
the next pension board meeting and ask to see
one of the documents and ask and interview any
of the fiduciaries there and say, have you seen
any of these documents that they've signed? And
you'll see real fast, like no one saw it. And
they'll look at you like, what are you doing
here? It's a pretty complex thing. I'm hoping
that you watch the film that I'm going to try
to release really, really soon. And then there'll
be a better action plan. for the people you just
outlined every single one of them have a union
right and um you need to get control of that
again if not then you need to do what a lot of
the people do in my film and they've created
new facebook groups uh they get the other teachers
involved with other firefighters whatever they
are please and um and they start there um And
then get organized that way. If your union, I
don't even know what the rules are on this. Do
you know the rules on this, James? Can all the
firefighters in an area decide, we do want to
be unionized, but our union's not serving our
needs. We're going to just have another union
sign up with another one to represent us. Is
that possible? I'm not sure. I mean, you're asking
a person who's happy to burn something to the
ground if it needs to be. I would imagine that
the next click down would just be a complete
vote of no confidence. If your union is discovered
to have done this at whatever level, then it's
a case of just control -alt -delete and getting
new people in and making sure that they are holding
the state union, the national union accountable.
And if that's not happening, then yeah, maybe
you need to come up with something different.
But like I said, I'm a huge believer in the union
philosophy. So I guess every example is going
to be different, but it's certainly first, are
the people that are in those positions serving
you? Is that simple is the first question. Is
your president? I mean, you know, you think about
what we've just talked about. None of it has
been all the Republicans or all the Democrats.
It's, you know, I was thinking the analogy this
morning. It's like a pendulum, you know, Democrat,
Republican, Democrat, Republican. But we forget,
well, where's the hinge of that pendulum? It's
exactly what we're talking about. It's the people
with the money at the top. So if your political
party, if your union, whoever is the next step
above you, is not serving you, I would say, well,
there's your first step. And then if the union
that you're a part of just seems completely corrupt,
then maybe. New York has their own union, for
example. The structure is there. I think it's
the accountability that we need to do. I think
that everything can exist within the structure
they've already created, but it's all the right
people in those positions. And as you alluded
to in Rhode Island, I have in Pasco County, go
look at the unions that are doing it right. How
did they get the right people? How are they having
good relationships with their city or their county?
And then start modeling that, you know, and then
the rising tide lifts all ships and flushes the
turds out the toilet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My objective
in coming to you is one, just to kind of suddenly
wake everybody up. Here's what's happening. And
here's what we have to change and how we have
to change it. And then my intention is, you know,
I'm not really... viewing me as anyone's leader
to make that change. I'm documenting what's happening.
But I think what I'm planning on doing is not
leaving this and documenting everybody's successful
efforts and what they're doing. I'll tell you,
the group that went the furthest from total corruption
to the right in the middle of it is Ohio. They
sued for five years and won in the low court.
one on appeal, and then one in the state Supreme
Court, the right to receive the documents. Tencedo.
Five years. So they paid for it. They got all
things done. The pension, ultimately, because
the pension lost, they had to pay all that. But
30 % of the funds, documents, when they came
in, were 100 % redacted, even though the Supreme
Court said they had to give it. It's insane.
30 % were partially redacted. Partially redacted.
And then 30%, it's 33, 33, whatever, 33 were
actually showed what's going on. So Ted Siddell
has information that no one's been able to have
to date. But he says, to be truthful, it's all
the same. It's all the same stuff. They're using
the same document. They have the same instruments
in them. You're seeing these things the way it
works. But I'm just saying, going through legal
and with as best you can get and winning at the
state Supreme Court, there's still a third of
them. It was just every line was black. And a
third of them, all the good stuff was black.
Right? And then only a third got actually disclosed.
I don't care. They're probably like the newer
small funds and they don't even understand what
their industry is yet. They're still learning.
So that's where you're at there. And then I've
interviewed like state senators, Democrat and
Republican, state senators. So you're on the
state Senate. You would think, and you're on
the board, you would think you're somebody, you're
in a position to do something. Oh my gosh, they
are so frustrated. They are so frustrated. The
attorney general, everyone, they always say to
be one step ahead. And so I don't honestly see
anything changing unless you guys succeed with
your union. That's where we're at. I just don't.
Because ultimately, it's your money. You're the
people. It's you guys. And if you have an underfunded
pension, The only way you're going to get funded
again is the state has to put in enough money
so that it's funded. It will never get funded
because of great returns from private equity.
And that's the sorry sales pitch that's been
going on since 2013, 2012 in mass numbers. And
also like in Ohio, what they did is the teachers
went from. This is a state that doesn't have
Social Security. They went from putting in 10
% of their money each year, each month or whatever,
to 10%, to 14%. The state kept doing 14%. It's
a no -income tax state. On average, if you're
a no -income tax state, the state would put in
30%. But they've only been putting in 14%. They
didn't put a dime more in for these poor teachers.
So the teachers had to go from 10 % to 14%, and
the teachers lost their cola. which gets us back
to the very beginning of our talk about someone
living in a chicken coop. That's not even going
to be in the movie. It should be. I should go
find that person. So you can see why I'm kind
of coming to this. And all the people I've done
this film with and part of it, like all these
really smart people, nobody, nobody's doing the
conversation we're doing, James. Because I'm
looking at this like, this is the only way this
is going to change. and you guys lost your union.
That's what's happened. I mean, it never would
have happened. If you think about it, the power
of a union, like no one wants to mess with that,
right? Yeah, I mean, I mean, come on, you got
the president of the United States out there
campaigning, you know, picketing, you know, in
Detroit, right? I mean, and what was that about,
by the way? They wanted a 25 % increase because
they had a 30 % increase. They hadn't had an
increase forever. But it was really about their
pension. That's really what that was about. That's
where the fights are. And they will tell you,
oh, it's all good here. I know what you've been
told over here. It's great here. And if you ever
decide to hire anyone, a group that represents
you, Ted Sedell, he's a dirt cheap guy. He's
got so many millions. And he likes to do these
things for people. So that's the gist of it.
But I would love to hear from anyone who actually
decides to fight this, do their thing, wants
it documented. I want to track that. And I want
to show everybody to learn how to do this. There
is no template that where we're at. There was
no template for how we got here. This is the
most organized, amazing theft in the history
of ever. The history of ever, right? And to the
point that they own so many of the houses, just
everything. All the businesses. We haven't even
talked about how they're buying up all the small
businesses. HVACs, you're calling up an HVAC.
You know, I got my ACs acting up. These be repaired.
What's the cost? And everybody seems to be in
the same price. and they're all owned by private
equity everyone now so it's that's what's going
on and so everything we hate about what's going
on right now again i just want to emphasize it's
happening with the money that's coming from your
pension all right well the whole point of this
show as i've said many times is to get people
educated and angry and then angry not like you
know burning down cities and things but only
when you understand you have The kind of realization
like, oh, this is something I got to fight for.
I got to fight to go home to my family when I'm
supposed to. I got to fight for a healthier work
week. I got to fight. To be one of the voices
that stops a war that ends up getting my child
sent overseas for no reason. These are all things
that we have to understand as a nation, as a
planet. And I think this has been incredible.
I mean, when you called me a few days ago and
we had this conversation for the first time,
my mind was blown. And ironically, I don't even
have a pension. I cashed mine out to do the podcast,
to be this voice. But I'm advocating for so many
other people. There are so many solutions to
so many people's problems if we just are proactive
with the thing. I've had a conversation with
several healthcare professionals recently. 20
% of our GDP is spent on healthcare. Again, which
I'm sure most goes into private equity, as we
were just talking about. We don't need more money.
We need healthier people. We need to change this
pendulum from completely reactive back to proactive.
uncovering things exactly like you're talking
about to protect our pension and then also take
power away from these predatory actions. I mean,
it's everything. So I want to thank you so much.
Just before I let you go, let's just underline
again where people can find the film and roughly
when are you looking to release it? Well, I'm
aiming to have the film done by the end of the
year. Usually that means the film wouldn't show
up anywhere for... four to six months if i'm
able to do a different kind of release it might
come out right away like it might be out as soon
as late january early february so um the however
it happens i will notify anybody who goes to
conmovies .com and just put your email address
in there and i Ask anyone who ever had their
email address. I pretty much never send out emails.
I will just notify you. Here it is. Here's what's
going on. And I never share information with
anybody. You will never get an advertisement.
Nothing like that. I'm not affiliated with anybody.
Oh, by the way, I self -funded this whole entire
movie. My dad draws CalPERS money. And so I use
proceeds from previous funds to fund this one.
And so I am really proud of being able to participate
and do this one. Like, this has been so unifying
for me because I've been able to work with the
extremes of both parties as well as the people
in the middle, like everybody. And on this issue,
everybody is united. Like, I will tell you, Republicans
and Democrats who are not receiving, right, this
crazy, you know, super PAC money, everyone's
eye to eye on it. And the unions, I saw the value
of unions. For the first, I say the first time
in my life, I have never been involved in a union.
It's not completely true. Actually, back when
I was 15 years old, 16 years old, I worked for
Bellar Grocery Store. on florin boulevard um
in sacramento california and it was a union grocery
store and i made five dollars and fifty cents
an hour and um fast forward to 2018 so that was
1985 okay 2018 we moved to florida from california
my daughter special needs daughter gets a job
working for Publix grocery store, bad girl, I
was a bad boy, like same thing, right? And she
made $7 and I think $70, $7 .70 an hour. So two
bucks more from 1985 to 2018. I'll tell you,
$5 .50 an hour was a good wage in 1985. It was
good money. I was able to save. I was able to
save for college. Working at a grocery store,
that and the paper, I could do it. My daughter
has to live with me. There's no hope, right?
I mean, now it's paying like 14 because of monster
inflation we've had. So I do see the value of
unions and representing people. And I also feel
like Whether I or anyone agrees with, because
there's a lot of pension envy, only 10 % of America
has pensions, public pensions, right? There's
a lot of pension envy. A lot of people are sitting
there, I don't have any retirement saved. Why
should we, my tax dollars go and bail those people
out, right? There's all of that talk going on,
right? Well, I'll tell you, I'll tell people
why in the film. Because we wrote a contract
stating here's what you get and you get an inflation
protected pension for life. That's why you took
the job. That was a big part of why you took
the job. You got paid less now or more later.
Always we're going to take care of you. And since
the Magna Carta to present day, what we write
down matters. And suddenly. Our states are saying,
actually, those are weaker contracts. We're able
to finagle and get out of that. I'm like, what
does that even mean? That's the essence of who
we are. So it's immoral to take someone who schooled
our kids or ourselves and let them live in a
chicken coop. That's immoral. I don't know. that
means we go back to the bible we go to the bible
micah and said woe to them who join house to
house uh isaiah it's isaiah chapter one wait
i won't join house to house you know whatever
until there's no more inheritance right and you
rob the widows you have the orphans i mean this
is exactly what we are doing right now in america
to the level we've never seen it before used
to be just here's some land go take care of it
whatever of course we're taking away from my
other line of my ancestry the native side but
but anyway there it was right so it's immoral
and um and so we need unions we need them we
don't need what's happening right now with too
many of them we need real representation for
people and we're going to the age of ai and all
that crap that's happening and all these companies
are like like everybody's going to need to end
up joining up with one We need way more union
representation. This is kind of needed, unfortunately.
It's needed. For those who don't like it, it's
needed. And for the states that don't want to
help their people out, we have to. So that means
all the citizens are going to have to pony up.
We're just going to have to do it. It's going
to be painful. But who are we? You are stealing
from someone. You literally stole their life.
You stole 40 years of their life that they worked
saying, I'm going to get paid this and then you
don't give it to them. Like what? That's just,
it's theft. So pension promises stolen. The cost
of secrecy. That's the working title for the
film. So go to conmovies .com. Give me your email.
And whenever it's out, you'll suddenly get an
email from me. And there probably won't be another
one. Well, Doug, I want to thank you. Firstly,
I'm excited to see the film. I think it's so
needed. By the way, it's not even on the timeline
right now. It's just like, it's nothing. It's
just recording. I've just gone through the footage
the first time. So yeah, I'm excited to see it
too. It'll be great. It will. But I mean, just,
I mean, the way you told the story, like I said,
going back to the motivation factor, that's such
a powerful medium. And I love the fact that documentaries
are really, you know, successful now because
they're so educational as long as you obviously
you're not watching one with the complete bias.
Um, so yeah, I think it's, it's really going
to open a lot of people's minds and then, you
know, obviously when this level, then maybe we
can look even higher up, but you know, the last
few presidents and you know, what happens when
people lie in their pockets and you know, the
country pays for that too. So, you know, just,
just pulling the curtain back on all these issues
I think is so important to empower us Americans,
you know, the, we, the people, I think it was
written somewhere. So with that being said, I
want to thank you so much for being so generous
with your time again and coming back onto the
Behind the Shield podcast. All right. Thanks
so much.