WEBVTT

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Welcome, guys, to episode 67 of Behind the Shield

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podcast. My name is James Geering, and this week

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I bring to you an incredible man who I think

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is an inspiration and really sets the bar as

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to the challenges of life. Rob Jones was an engineer

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with the Marine Corps out in Afghanistan and

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was caught in an IED explosion, lost both his

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legs. And instead of letting that injury define

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him and make him crumble, he decided to use it

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as an inspiration. Rob has been an Olympian with

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the rowing team. He has done 31 marathons in

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31 days and is just... basically hatching more

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ways to show everyone that their injuries don't

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define them and that life is not over when we

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get challenges. So this was an incredible episode

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yet again. So many great minds on this podcast.

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But Rob was truly inspiring. I loved talking

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to him and the positivity and inspiration from

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this man was mind -blowing. So before we get

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to the interview, as always, if you could go

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to iTunes, I implore you to give us a review,

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give us a rating. I hear five out of five is

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the way to go in the podcast world. It makes

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us more visible. And then again, just pick an

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episode. Think of a friend who would be inspired

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by that particular guest and share it. If we

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all share the three people, they share the three

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people before you know it, every first responder

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is going to hear this podcast. So without further

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ado, I introduce to you an incredible man, Rob

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Jones. Enjoy. All right, well, welcome, Rob,

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to the Behind the Shield podcast. Where are we

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finding you today? I live in Vienna, Virginia.

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It's right outside DC. Okay, and was that where

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you were born? Well, no, I was born in Columbia,

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Maryland, which is close to here. And then I

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grew up in Loudoun County, Virginia, which is

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just a little bit further west of where I am.

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So I'm in my home area. Okay, fantastic. So what

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was your family life like when you were young?

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You know, pretty normal. My parents were split

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up, but they both remarried. I grew up living

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primarily with my mom and my stepfather, and

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they had a horse farm. And so I grew up, you

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know, doing chores around the horse farm. I hated

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horses because I had to pick up out of their

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poop almost every day. So I did not have a good

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relationship with them. I spent my summers weed

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whacking, mowing the lawn, and stacking hay bales

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and doing that kind of stuff. But besides that,

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just hanging out with my friends and pretty normal

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childhood. Sounds like we had a very similar

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upbringing. My dad was a horse vet, veterinarian.

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Oh, there you go. Yeah, I was mucking out stables

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my whole childhood. We had like 12 of them. It

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was brutal. Yeah, it is. People don't understand

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hard work until you grow up on a farm. So did

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you have any military in your family back then?

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You know, my dad was drafted in Vietnam. He didn't

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go to Vietnam and he just, you know, did his,

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I think maybe it was two years or something that

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he had to do. And then he got out and didn't

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really talk about it much or anything. So I didn't

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really have a whole lot of, you know, military

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influence in my family or anything. Right. So

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what did you want to do as a career when you

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were in school? What was your aspiration then?

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When I was in high school, I wanted to be a computer

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game programmer because I liked playing video

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games and I enjoyed doing computer science. And

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that's what I went to college for originally.

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But I didn't. I realized somewhere in my junior

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year, I either wasn't good enough at it or I

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wasn't studious enough at the time to make it

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a viable. uh employment possibility right now

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you talked about college and please correct me

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if i'm wrong you went to virginia tech is that

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correct yeah i went to uh virginia tech between

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2003 and 2007 okay had you just graduated when

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that awful shooting happened that was in my last

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semester actually oh so you're actually still

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there when that that happened yeah yeah so uh

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that happened and then i graduated uh the next

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month wow Okay, because I saw that and I kind

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of Googled the dates and realized they aligned

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almost perfectly. Yeah, you know, it didn't affect,

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you know, I wasn't, you know, in the vicinity.

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I was in my apartment off campus or anything,

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so I wasn't anywhere near it. Yeah, it was awful.

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One of the kind of through lines I talked to

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some guests about, like I had Lieutenant Colonel

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Dave Grossman on here and Tim Kennedy and some

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of these other guys is these awful mass shootings

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and how... uh, you know, how we prepare for them

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now and how you try and be that kind of sheepdog

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role, just in case something like that happens

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again. Yeah. You know, I, I remember at the time

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I, you know, I, I just, I had actually been to

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bootcamp the previous summer. So I had been,

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uh, drilling at my reserve unit. And I remember

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at the time just feeling like shit because I

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wasn't there. And maybe I thought maybe I could

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have done something, but, uh, you know, so I

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kind of felt like shit about that, but you know,

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You're either there or you're not. It's a matter

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of circumstance. Yeah. Well, I think that I heard

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someone talk about this a little while ago. This

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is two types of people, the people that wish

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they were there and the people are thankful they

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weren't there. And I think that Marines, firefighters,

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police, they're the ones that wish they were

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there. And I can definitely relate to that. So

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scaling back to your childhood just for a moment,

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were you an athlete back then? You know, I was

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big into sports, playing baseball and soccer

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growing up. Um, and up until I got to high school

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and then I fell behind, uh, the other guys in,

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in terms of, uh, growing. Cause I was a little

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tiny kid. I was about 88 pounds, uh, in ninth

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grade. And so, you know, my body just didn't

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develop, um, as fast. And so I kind of moved

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away. I couldn't make any of the teams I wanted

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to make it. So, uh, I moved away from sports

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and I got into the computer stuff. and I didn't

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really get back into training, sports, and that

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kind of stuff until I joined the Marine Corps

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because I needed to be in shape for boot camp

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and all that. Right. So when did you have that

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pivotal moment where you decided that the military

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was going to be where you'd pursue? It was in

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my junior year at Virginia Tech. Like I said,

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I had just realized that computer science probably

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wasn't going to be in the cards, or I wasn't.

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I guess what's more accurate was I wasn't willing

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to put in the effort that was going to be required.

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And I know that now as a mature adult, but at

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the time I probably figured I just wasn't good

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enough. And so I was kind of a lonely kid. I

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was a loner and I was looking for something.

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Just something. I needed something besides what

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I was doing. And I felt like maybe I needed to

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do something that was about more than just myself.

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Because going to college and living all through

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high school, I was kind of just worried about

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myself. And maybe I figured I would flip the

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script on that. And so a buddy of mine had just

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joined the Marine Corps the year before. And

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so I started researching it. And I read the book

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Brotherhood of Heroes about the Battle of Peleliu.

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And it was reading that book that, you know,

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that clicked for me. You know, I knew what I

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had to do after that. Okay. So you said you had

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to get in shape for boot camp. What did you do

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to prepare for that? So, you know, I just did

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the PFT basically. The Marine Corps Physical

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Fitness Test is a three -mile run. pull -ups,

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as many pull -ups as you can, and then as many

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sit -ups as you can in two minutes. So I just

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made sure I was – I just started running. I started

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doing pull -ups, and I started doing sit -ups

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and push -ups and that kind of stuff because

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I knew just from what the recruiters told me

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and from what little amount of research I could

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do that you needed to be good at that kind of

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stuff. So besides that, just started working

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on my Marine Corps knowledge that they were going

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to teach me. And boot camp, you know, recruiters

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help you out with that a lot. And, you know,

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that's about it. Just started training, you know,

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pretty, you know, the day after I enlisted. Okay.

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And did you request to join the engineers or

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was that something you were assigned? That was

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a matter of circumstance because I joined the

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reserves and the closest reserve unit or the

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reserve unit that I was going to be joining because

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I lived in Blacksburg, Virginia. was Bravo Company,

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4th Combat Engineer Battalion out of Roanoke,

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Virginia. That was the closest one to me, so

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they just said, all right, well, this is going

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to be your reserve unit. And the only billets

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they have there are combat engineer billets.

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So the decision was kind of made for me. But

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I am looking back on it. I'm glad of that. I

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love the job, and I'm glad that I got it. Right.

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Yeah. It sounds like if you had the aspirations

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for the engineering side with the computing,

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that actually would probably be a good fit for

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you mentally as well. It's kind of a total. I

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didn't end up doing anything that was really

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what you would consider mechanical engineering

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or computer engineering or anything like that.

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I was just dealing with explosives. But it requires

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a little bit more cerebral person, I suppose.

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Right. So what was the first tour that you saw?

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So my first one was 2008, Albania, Iraq. My unit

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was sending a volunteer platoon. And so I volunteered.

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And yeah, so 2008. Okay. And then so you went

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back to Afghanistan in 2010. Is that correct?

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Yeah. So in 2008. Not much was going on in Iraq,

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and I had gone over there hoping to, you know,

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do some fighting, kill some bad guys, and we

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didn't really get to do much of that. And so

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it was kind of, I was proud of it. I think we

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did a lot of good over there. We found a lot

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of buried weapons caches, so I have no doubt

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we made the city a lot safer just because of

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that. So I was happy about that, but, you know,

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I did want to do some fighting. and my reserve

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unit was sending another volunteer platoon to

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Afghanistan in 2010, and so I volunteered for

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that right away. Okay, now what were the differences

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you saw when you first got there between your

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initial deployment in Iraq, apart from obviously

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the combat, and Afghanistan? You know, so Iraq

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has a lot more urban places. So it has its big

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cities and then it has its smaller towns on the

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outskirts of the big cities and they're all built

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up and they have asphalt roads and buildings

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and basically like any town here except with

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different materials and a little bit less infrastructure.

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But you get to Afghanistan and there's one –

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They have their big cities, and then there's

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one road that goes around the whole city called

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the Ring Road. And then everything else is just

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dirt and mud compounds just kind of spotted in

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the distance and just spotted away from each

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other and mountains. And it's a lot more kind

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of wild west than Iraq was in terms of the geography.

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Right. Okay, so can you describe, because obviously

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a lot of my audience are going to be firefighter,

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police, EMS, some of whom are veterans and obviously

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know exactly what you're talking about. But for

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the rest of us, just describe the role of the

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Marine Combat Engineer. Yeah, so it is to say

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the combat engineer actually describes three

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different possibilities. First possibility is

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you can work with an air wing. So you'll be doing

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a lot of stuff with airports, runways, and that

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kind of stuff. So you'll be doing whatever they

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need you to do, bulk fuel and all sorts of stuff

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like that. The other possibility would be the

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construction side of it, building up forward

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operating bases. I'm sure you've read Extreme

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Ownership. that he worked with and how they would

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have to be building bunkers and stuff like that

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while under fire. And so that's the other aspect,

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doing stuff like that, filling the sandbags and

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building stuff. And the third aspect is what

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I was doing, which is called the division side

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engineer. And what we would do would be we would

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attach to an infantry battalion. So it would

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be one platoon for an infantry battalion. And

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then we'd be broken down. One squad would go

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with each company in a battalion. And then each

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fire team in that squad would go with a platoon

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in that company. Does that make sense? Yeah,

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absolutely. So we would just basically just go

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and be another infantry guy for the infantry

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platoon squads. When they would go on a patrol,

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we would go with them. When they would do a push,

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we would go on their push. And we would be responsible

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for demolitions. And we'd use them to either

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create obstacles or defeat obstacles. So for

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example, if there was a door that we needed to

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breach, we would blow the door off the hinges

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or we'd use a halogen tool or whatever. If there

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were trees that needed to be destroyed or knocked

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down so that we can have... Clear fields of fire

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for a forward operating base. We'd blow up the

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trees. So things like that. And then the other

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aspect would be the finding of either buried

00:15:14.490 --> 00:15:18.490
munitions or improvised explosive devices. And

00:15:18.490 --> 00:15:21.350
that would be defeating obstacles so that the

00:15:21.350 --> 00:15:24.490
IED would be classified as an obstacle. Okay,

00:15:24.509 --> 00:15:26.230
now I'm assuming then that your role must have

00:15:26.230 --> 00:15:29.110
been extremely important looking from the outside

00:15:29.110 --> 00:15:32.360
in. in a war that seems to be fought primarily

00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:36.820
with uh terrorist tactics like ieds so um i mean

00:15:36.820 --> 00:15:40.100
were you constantly having to search for those

00:15:40.100 --> 00:15:45.679
not constantly um i wouldn't even say it was

00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:51.860
a daily event really uh so well the finding wasn't

00:15:51.860 --> 00:15:56.350
daily so usually with in most patrols there would

00:15:56.350 --> 00:15:59.090
be a time where I or another combat engineer

00:15:59.090 --> 00:16:02.230
would have to check something out. So if we were

00:16:02.230 --> 00:16:06.370
going to go into – on a patrol, there's lots

00:16:06.370 --> 00:16:08.529
of wadis and bridges that you have to cross over.

00:16:08.649 --> 00:16:12.370
So every time we would come to a point like that

00:16:12.370 --> 00:16:14.950
where we would have to be – we'd be forced by

00:16:14.950 --> 00:16:19.009
terrain to concentrate and use a route or a certain

00:16:19.009 --> 00:16:22.980
road through an area. I would check that out.

00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:25.159
So a bridge, you know, we'd have to go over the

00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:27.000
bridge because we can't just swim across a river.

00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:31.200
And so the Taliban might plant their IEDs close

00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:33.200
to that bridge or on either side of that bridge.

00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:36.639
So I would go check that out. Right. And whether

00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:38.620
or not there was anything there, you know, it

00:16:38.620 --> 00:16:41.240
varied, but I would be going out there and checking.

00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:48.340
Okay. So then how, let me rephrase that. What

00:16:48.340 --> 00:16:50.000
kind of equipment did you have and how effective

00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:55.259
was that in finding these devices? The equipment

00:16:55.259 --> 00:17:00.639
would have been a metal detector, a very sophisticated

00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:07.380
metal detector. But almost more importantly than

00:17:07.380 --> 00:17:10.880
that was just your own kind of instinct. So you

00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:15.220
could get to a point where you could... Look

00:17:15.220 --> 00:17:18.200
at a route that you're trying to take and you'd

00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:23.759
be able to see Indicators, you know dirt that

00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:27.259
didn't look right or stacks of rocks that might

00:17:27.259 --> 00:17:31.539
be marking something or sunken dirt or discolored

00:17:31.539 --> 00:17:35.619
dirt and things like that, so The most important

00:17:35.619 --> 00:17:37.880
thing would be your instincts and then you would

00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:40.019
go through there and you would use your metal

00:17:40.019 --> 00:17:43.440
detector to try and find the little tiny bits

00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:47.240
of metal that they would put in the IEDs. And

00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:51.539
so really, it's about as effective a tool as

00:17:51.539 --> 00:17:57.240
you can get, but it wasn't necessarily 100 %

00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:00.480
because the dirt could have minerals in it that

00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:03.880
would set off the metal detector, or you might

00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:07.829
not have your sensitivity high enough. because

00:18:07.829 --> 00:18:09.710
of that so you might turn your sensitivity lower

00:18:09.710 --> 00:18:11.670
because you're just getting all sorts of false

00:18:11.670 --> 00:18:14.690
readings and so you turn it lower and then you

00:18:14.690 --> 00:18:16.549
know lo and behold there's an ied and you you

00:18:16.549 --> 00:18:20.369
blow up and so it's about as effective as you

00:18:20.369 --> 00:18:24.829
can get but it's not a it's not like you know

00:18:24.829 --> 00:18:27.730
you walk out there and it just points at an ied

00:18:27.730 --> 00:18:29.910
or something yeah exactly some sort of kind of

00:18:29.910 --> 00:18:32.839
ground radar or something Okay. Well, then you

00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:35.440
touched on that. So obviously the pivotal point

00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:38.460
in your story was that day when you did find

00:18:38.460 --> 00:18:41.819
an IED and it did explode. So are you able to

00:18:41.819 --> 00:18:43.740
kind of tell us the story of that day and how

00:18:43.740 --> 00:18:47.460
it unfolded? Yeah. So we were doing a push. Well,

00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:50.819
basically what we would do was we started it.

00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:52.940
We had just taken over from the British at Fob,

00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:56.740
Inkerman and Seng in Afghanistan. And so when

00:18:56.740 --> 00:18:59.420
I say push, basically what that means is we just.

00:18:59.960 --> 00:19:02.359
Go into Taliban territory and start taking stuff

00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:05.259
over. And if the Taliban wants to try and resist

00:19:05.259 --> 00:19:08.779
us, we either kill them or they run away. And

00:19:08.779 --> 00:19:14.299
so what we were doing was there would be belts

00:19:14.299 --> 00:19:17.079
of IEDs or we'd have intelligence that were belts

00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:21.140
of IEDs. And so we would launch these line charges,

00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:24.619
big ass line charges that were about 1700 pounds

00:19:24.619 --> 00:19:27.980
of C4. And there would be a line and we'd blow

00:19:27.980 --> 00:19:30.410
those up. And then everybody would just kind

00:19:30.410 --> 00:19:34.650
of walk through these IED belts on that line

00:19:34.650 --> 00:19:38.289
of explosives because that's the only place that

00:19:38.289 --> 00:19:40.950
we could guarantee that there was nothing because

00:19:40.950 --> 00:19:43.130
we had blown up anything that might be there.

00:19:44.130 --> 00:19:47.630
And then they would send this assault breacher

00:19:47.630 --> 00:19:49.349
vehicle through with a mine rake and then just

00:19:49.349 --> 00:19:53.150
rake up the ground in front of us. So we just

00:19:53.150 --> 00:19:55.369
walked through there. And then once we got through

00:19:55.369 --> 00:19:57.589
the IED belts, we would start taking over compounds

00:19:57.589 --> 00:20:02.769
and setting them up in order for us to launch

00:20:02.769 --> 00:20:05.789
further operations from those forward operating

00:20:05.789 --> 00:20:10.190
bases. And so we'd do that for a day, and then

00:20:10.190 --> 00:20:13.130
we'd set up the – we would clear, make sure there

00:20:13.130 --> 00:20:15.509
was nothing in – there were booby traps or anything

00:20:15.509 --> 00:20:17.890
in these compounds that we were going into. So

00:20:17.890 --> 00:20:19.750
that's what me and other combat engineers would

00:20:19.750 --> 00:20:23.150
do. Once we cleared it, then we would set up.

00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:25.859
I used to start doing foot patrols and secure

00:20:25.859 --> 00:20:29.859
the area, and then once we felt confident about

00:20:29.859 --> 00:20:33.019
it and we were ready to go again, we would do

00:20:33.019 --> 00:20:37.500
that same process again. And so on the second

00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:40.819
time, we had the vehicle column that was clearing

00:20:40.819 --> 00:20:44.339
the IED belts, and I was part of an infantry

00:20:44.339 --> 00:20:47.240
squad that was kind of skirting along the outside

00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:50.440
and protecting that vehicle column from ambushes.

00:20:51.339 --> 00:20:54.099
And at some point during the day, we sat down

00:20:54.099 --> 00:20:57.359
to take a break, and we stood back up, and the

00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:04.039
point man stepped on an IED. And luckily, there

00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:07.480
was no injury to him because the IED malfunctioned,

00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:09.420
and so all that happened was the blasting cap

00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:12.680
exploded, and it didn't set off the main charge,

00:21:12.859 --> 00:21:15.299
which is what it's supposed to do. So the IED,

00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:18.440
obviously, you have this little small blasting

00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:22.259
cap that gets set off by... the heat in a wire

00:21:22.259 --> 00:21:24.519
or an electric charge in a wire, and then that

00:21:24.519 --> 00:21:27.140
blows up the main charge, which is usually a

00:21:27.140 --> 00:21:30.680
big jug of homemade explosives. And so his didn't

00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:35.900
work. And so now that becomes an area where I

00:21:35.900 --> 00:21:38.240
need to come forward and guide us through because

00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:40.920
the likelihood that there's going to be another

00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:44.519
IED somewhere in there is about 100 % because

00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:46.599
the Taliban, as everybody probably knows, they

00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:49.359
like to put the primary and the secondary, tertiary.

00:21:51.129 --> 00:21:54.609
IEDs so that anybody that came to rescue that

00:21:54.609 --> 00:21:56.309
first guy would get hit as well so it would just

00:21:56.309 --> 00:21:59.869
be like a chain reaction and so I went out to

00:21:59.869 --> 00:22:02.890
guide us through that area and I missed the IED

00:22:02.890 --> 00:22:05.690
that got me and it hit me and that resulted in

00:22:05.690 --> 00:22:09.970
double above knee amputations Wow so what happened

00:22:09.970 --> 00:22:12.170
right there and then where were you taken to

00:22:12.170 --> 00:22:14.170
and what was the initial treatment for such a

00:22:14.170 --> 00:22:17.670
horrendous injury? The initial treatment was

00:22:19.819 --> 00:22:24.079
So, you know, I was unconscious for about 20

00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:28.319
seconds. And so, you know, I wake up and, you

00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:33.119
know, screaming. Other Marines, so in this particular

00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:37.220
case, they couldn't just run over to me because,

00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:41.200
like I said, there's primary, secondary, tertiary

00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:44.460
possibility of IEDs being in the area. And so

00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:46.240
they actually had to get another guy to clear

00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:48.779
over to me. You know, while I'm sitting there

00:22:48.779 --> 00:22:50.579
bleeding out. And I'm sure he kind of did it

00:22:50.579 --> 00:22:53.460
in a quick fashion. But they couldn't just run

00:22:53.460 --> 00:22:57.319
over to me. And so, you know, they're like, they're

00:22:57.319 --> 00:22:58.720
telling me, you know, we're coming, we're coming.

00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:00.400
And then they get there and they put the tourniquets

00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:02.819
on. They give me the morphine. And then they

00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:08.140
take me to a nearby tank. And then the tank meets

00:23:08.140 --> 00:23:11.660
a helicopter. Helicopter takes me, takes me out

00:23:11.660 --> 00:23:15.079
of there. And then five days later, I'm in Bethesda,

00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:19.980
Maryland. Okay, so was Maryland the first stop

00:23:19.980 --> 00:23:22.480
as far as your medical attention and that's where

00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:26.839
you did the initial wound care? No, so they would

00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:28.920
have taken me from site of injury and sang into,

00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:33.420
I think, Camp Leatherneck. And there's a hospital

00:23:33.420 --> 00:23:36.559
there. And so they would have done, you know,

00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:42.359
debridements and any kind of alterations that

00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:44.480
they needed to do. Revisions, they call them.

00:23:44.980 --> 00:23:47.059
And then so they would do that, stabilize me,

00:23:47.099 --> 00:23:49.220
and then they moved me to, I think, Bagram Air

00:23:49.220 --> 00:23:52.839
Force Base, which is also in Afghanistan, and

00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:56.200
do the same thing. And then put me on an aircraft

00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:02.700
to Germany, Landstuhl, Germany. There's another

00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:05.099
hospital, and they would do the same thing. And

00:24:05.099 --> 00:24:09.180
then they flew me from Germany to Bethesda Naval

00:24:09.180 --> 00:24:12.599
Hospital. Wow. That's a hell of a trip just to

00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:15.559
get to that point. Obviously, you had the physical

00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:17.359
injuries. At what point did they start giving

00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:21.140
you the psychological help of what you've been

00:24:21.140 --> 00:24:27.500
through as well? I spent the first five days

00:24:27.500 --> 00:24:31.880
unconscious. Then the next seven days, I spent

00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:36.359
high on morphine and painkillers, going in for

00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:40.299
surgeries. That's just from my body getting used

00:24:40.299 --> 00:24:44.000
to all the chemicals that was getting put into

00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.500
it. You just kind of need that time to process

00:24:47.500 --> 00:24:49.880
everything and get used to it. So that next week

00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:53.980
was pretty much a loss. And then I get moved

00:24:53.980 --> 00:24:56.359
up to the fifth floor. It probably took another

00:24:56.359 --> 00:25:00.160
five or so days for me to really get my senses

00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:04.500
totally cleared. And then that's when they start

00:25:04.500 --> 00:25:07.430
bringing in. All the different doctors, the orthopedic

00:25:07.430 --> 00:25:11.690
surgeons, the pain specialists, you know, whatever

00:25:11.690 --> 00:25:15.470
doctor can possibly want to talk to you. That's

00:25:15.470 --> 00:25:17.750
when they start bringing them in. And then they

00:25:17.750 --> 00:25:21.769
also bring in the psychological doctors and they

00:25:21.769 --> 00:25:25.529
basically give you, they ask you a bunch of questions.

00:25:25.690 --> 00:25:29.309
They test how your mind is. And, you know, it

00:25:29.309 --> 00:25:32.250
was determined I didn't have any kind of lasting

00:25:32.250 --> 00:25:36.640
post -traumatic stress. um effects you know luckily

00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:40.240
for me so i didn't really require much in in

00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:43.839
terms of you know therapy or counseling or anything

00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:47.680
like that all right so somehow yeah i mean that

00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:50.180
that's amazing in itself but so what was your

00:25:50.180 --> 00:25:53.400
self -talk you know that once once the morphine

00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:54.900
had worn off and everything had kind of sunk

00:25:54.900 --> 00:25:57.759
in um and you're you're lying in this bed with

00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:01.859
this double amputation were you initially thinking

00:26:01.859 --> 00:26:04.140
i'm gonna beat this and i'm gonna go and and

00:26:04.140 --> 00:26:06.839
be better than i was before or you know was there

00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:09.039
a period where where you just you know weren't

00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:11.779
sure what you were gonna do i think you know

00:26:11.779 --> 00:26:15.180
looking back on it so in with the power of hindsight

00:26:15.180 --> 00:26:21.660
um i can say that i realized that my life's mission

00:26:21.660 --> 00:26:24.099
was unchanged i still wanted to have a good life

00:26:24.099 --> 00:26:27.180
a meaningful life and a life i could be proud

00:26:27.180 --> 00:26:30.890
of And I realized that the more energy I spent

00:26:30.890 --> 00:26:35.630
wishing something hadn't happened, the less energy

00:26:35.630 --> 00:26:38.430
I would have to spend on what I could affect,

00:26:38.589 --> 00:26:40.849
which is my therapy and recovery and that kind

00:26:40.849 --> 00:26:43.250
of thing. So in hindsight I can say that, but

00:26:43.250 --> 00:26:46.309
I think at the time I just kind of was on instinct,

00:26:46.390 --> 00:26:50.509
kind of like a dog that you see running around

00:26:50.509 --> 00:26:53.109
with three legs. He doesn't even really realize

00:26:53.109 --> 00:26:57.069
that he should have four legs. And he just does

00:26:57.069 --> 00:27:00.329
his thing. So I think I was kind of running on

00:27:00.329 --> 00:27:02.970
that survival instinct and that kind of a thing.

00:27:03.089 --> 00:27:09.210
So I wasn't really sitting there doing really

00:27:09.210 --> 00:27:12.869
deep pondering as much as I was just acting.

00:27:14.190 --> 00:27:16.630
Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely.

00:27:17.009 --> 00:27:18.789
Absolutely. It's going to take a long time to

00:27:18.789 --> 00:27:26.140
sink in. So when did that start? uh, they have

00:27:26.140 --> 00:27:28.579
that metamorphosis where you start realizing

00:27:28.579 --> 00:27:30.819
that you're going to have prosthesis and you're

00:27:30.819 --> 00:27:33.119
going to have to learn, um, you know, how to

00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:34.859
walk on those again. What, what was that journey

00:27:34.859 --> 00:27:38.440
from the injury through to, um, standing, let's

00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:44.539
say, for example, like. Yeah. So my initial thought

00:27:44.539 --> 00:27:47.059
at site of injury was I assumed I was going to

00:27:47.059 --> 00:27:50.180
be in wheelchair forever. I assumed I was going

00:27:50.180 --> 00:27:52.460
to have to, you know, have somebody taking care

00:27:52.460 --> 00:27:56.740
of me. uh, for the rest of my life. Um, I didn't,

00:27:56.740 --> 00:27:58.660
yeah, I, and that, yeah, I didn't, I didn't even

00:27:58.660 --> 00:28:00.660
know. I had no idea. That's just what I assumed.

00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:03.980
Uh, obviously that was a very, uh, naive outlook,

00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:07.299
uneducated. Um, but that's what I thought. And

00:28:07.299 --> 00:28:09.539
then I get to the hospital and then the nurses

00:28:09.539 --> 00:28:11.960
and the physical therapists come in and they

00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:13.559
say, well, this is what it's going to be like

00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:15.619
probably because they've done not the first double

00:28:15.619 --> 00:28:17.279
above the amputee that's covered come through

00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:19.980
there. So they know, so they, they can tell me

00:28:19.980 --> 00:28:21.740
stories about people that have come through.

00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:24.259
And, oh, this is what he's doing now and this

00:28:24.259 --> 00:28:30.220
is how it went for him. And then also the guys

00:28:30.220 --> 00:28:34.640
that had actually kind of graduated from my situation

00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:39.019
to prosthetics would come back to Bethesda Hospital

00:28:39.019 --> 00:28:41.259
and do visits and say, you know, this is what

00:28:41.259 --> 00:28:44.599
my experience was. So I got a lot of intelligence

00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:49.539
from them about what to expect. That made it

00:28:49.539 --> 00:28:52.000
a whole lot easier to accept the situation, just

00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:57.240
knowing what to expect. It made me a little bit

00:28:57.240 --> 00:29:00.380
excited to heal up and get going with it because

00:29:00.380 --> 00:29:05.880
I was ready to get on with it and just do what

00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:08.960
I needed to do to get out of the hospital. So

00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:12.339
with above knee amputation, obviously, I mean,

00:29:12.359 --> 00:29:14.460
this is common sense, but so you don't have that

00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:16.839
knee joint to work with at all. So I'm assuming

00:29:16.839 --> 00:29:18.700
that that's even more challenging to have double

00:29:18.700 --> 00:29:21.119
prosthesis, even standing and walking without

00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:24.619
that stabilizing joint. Yeah. So, you know, less,

00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:27.559
the more limbs you can have, the better. Longer

00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:30.079
limb you can have, the better. So there's a major

00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:33.279
difference between below the knee and above the

00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.240
knee. Major difference between single and double.

00:29:36.829 --> 00:29:39.170
And then there's a major difference between like

00:29:39.170 --> 00:29:44.150
a long above knee amputation and a really short

00:29:44.150 --> 00:29:47.089
above knee amputation. So, you know, all those

00:29:47.089 --> 00:29:48.529
degrees. And then there's even, you know, the

00:29:48.529 --> 00:29:50.509
double hip disarticulation where you can't even

00:29:50.509 --> 00:29:54.250
wear, there's nothing. So there's a, you know,

00:29:54.250 --> 00:29:57.369
big steps in between each of those where, you

00:29:57.369 --> 00:30:01.470
know, you're losing vital parts that would make

00:30:01.470 --> 00:30:04.160
your life a lot easier. Right. So what was the

00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:07.299
first kind of milestone that you gave yourself

00:30:07.299 --> 00:30:12.259
to achieve with this new prosthesis? You know,

00:30:12.259 --> 00:30:14.240
the first milestone I had was actually just to

00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:17.259
get out of my hospital bed into my wheelchair

00:30:17.259 --> 00:30:20.339
by myself. And that was, you know, in the first

00:30:20.339 --> 00:30:23.259
week or so, so that I could then, you know, go

00:30:23.259 --> 00:30:27.579
wheel around the hospital. But with the prosthetic,

00:30:27.619 --> 00:30:32.490
you know, they fit you with it. And then they

00:30:32.490 --> 00:30:34.089
get it comfortable and then they're the first

00:30:34.089 --> 00:30:36.289
thing that you the first milestone is taking

00:30:36.289 --> 00:30:39.549
that first step you know you wheel your wheelchair

00:30:39.549 --> 00:30:45.369
into Into the parallel bars and then you know

00:30:45.369 --> 00:30:46.809
your therapist says all right go ahead and stand

00:30:46.809 --> 00:30:49.529
up and then you use your arms to stand yourself

00:30:49.529 --> 00:30:52.490
up and There you are all right now. You're standing

00:30:52.490 --> 00:30:53.910
up That's the first time you've been able to

00:30:53.910 --> 00:30:57.170
stand up and however long so and then you know

00:30:57.170 --> 00:31:00.000
they go all right. We'll take the you know, take

00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.420
the first step and you kind of naturally figure

00:31:02.420 --> 00:31:06.700
out how to do it. Um, and then, so, but it's

00:31:06.700 --> 00:31:09.380
not, it's, you know, it's a very, very ginger

00:31:09.380 --> 00:31:13.420
short, you know, maybe one inch step, but you

00:31:13.420 --> 00:31:15.059
know, that's your first step. And then you just

00:31:15.059 --> 00:31:17.400
kind of keep building on that and building on

00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:20.519
that. And then, uh, you know, just like any other

00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:22.400
thing where you practice and practice and practice

00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:24.519
and you get more comfortable and your body kind

00:31:24.519 --> 00:31:26.420
of adapts to the different pressures and the.

00:31:27.309 --> 00:31:30.309
different pains that are being put onto it and

00:31:30.309 --> 00:31:33.170
adapts to that and then you get more mobile and

00:31:33.170 --> 00:31:35.930
more mobile and they heighten your prosthetic

00:31:35.930 --> 00:31:38.170
so you start out as a double above knee amputee

00:31:38.170 --> 00:31:41.410
on basically prosthetic foot on the end of your

00:31:41.410 --> 00:31:44.950
stump so you're really short and then you graduate

00:31:44.950 --> 00:31:46.869
to a little bit taller as you get your balance

00:31:46.869 --> 00:31:48.970
you get better and better and you can walk for

00:31:48.970 --> 00:31:54.019
longer distances with you know and then you figure

00:31:54.019 --> 00:31:55.880
out how to go off curbs you just kind of figure

00:31:55.880 --> 00:31:57.619
out how to use these things in the way that you

00:31:57.619 --> 00:32:02.599
need to and then uh after you get to a certain

00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:07.180
level with the with the regular short uh no knee

00:32:07.180 --> 00:32:10.579
joint legs they give you these legs that are

00:32:10.579 --> 00:32:12.720
bionic and they have all sorts of sensors in

00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:16.059
them and they have a knee joint so now you have

00:32:16.059 --> 00:32:17.920
to learn relearn how to use that so and then

00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:20.920
you advance to that and then kind of once you

00:32:21.470 --> 00:32:23.470
learn master that then you can kind of move on

00:32:23.470 --> 00:32:26.369
to relearning more advanced things like running

00:32:26.369 --> 00:32:28.710
riding bikes and you know kind of getting back

00:32:28.710 --> 00:32:32.809
to figuring out what kind of what i would call

00:32:32.809 --> 00:32:37.089
hobbies okay now i had a guest dr bj miller i

00:32:37.089 --> 00:32:38.869
don't know if you've heard of him before he's

00:32:38.869 --> 00:32:41.410
a hospice doctor out in san francisco but he's

00:32:41.410 --> 00:32:44.609
a triple amputee both legs and one arm okay and

00:32:44.609 --> 00:32:46.509
uh he was kind of laughing because he said he

00:32:46.509 --> 00:32:49.480
used to be tall and almost it felt like he was

00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:51.960
too tall kind of lanky and after he had the accident

00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:56.099
he chose shorter prostheses partly because as

00:32:56.099 --> 00:32:57.759
you said it was easier to walk on but secondly

00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:00.579
he he liked being a little bit shorter now did

00:33:00.579 --> 00:33:03.119
you choose a certain height or were you at the

00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:06.279
mercy of the prosthesis that they gave you a

00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:09.940
little bit of both so i'm lucky enough that i'm

00:33:09.940 --> 00:33:14.180
a left knee disarticulation so i have my entire

00:33:14.180 --> 00:33:18.339
femur on my left leg And so what that means is

00:33:18.339 --> 00:33:25.839
my left leg, when I have a prosthetic on there,

00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:30.480
tends to be a little bit longer than a normal

00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:32.920
leg might be because the bionic knee that you

00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:35.279
have is a certain – it can only get so short.

00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:38.599
And the foot that you put on there can only get

00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:42.019
so short. So there's a minimum distance that

00:33:42.019 --> 00:33:45.240
you have to have. And so for me – I actually

00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:47.839
end up being a little bit taller because of that

00:33:47.839 --> 00:33:54.559
minimum distance of the prosthetic leg. But I've

00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:56.240
definitely heard about people getting shorter.

00:33:56.319 --> 00:34:00.059
You can select that optimal height for yourself.

00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:03.160
The taller you get, the harder it's going to

00:34:03.160 --> 00:34:05.740
be to balance usually up to a certain point.

00:34:06.099 --> 00:34:09.719
When I have my running legs on, I'm probably

00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:13.119
six foot. four six foot five because i wanted

00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:16.480
to try and maximize my stride length so you can

00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:19.539
you can mess around with it you can experiment

00:34:19.539 --> 00:34:21.840
and you can you can find that that optimal height

00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:25.980
okay well talking about running then so i i know

00:34:25.980 --> 00:34:27.940
in your bio you talk about relearning cycling

00:34:27.940 --> 00:34:31.039
running and rowing which of those was first and

00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:34.059
then you know what was that uh that experience

00:34:34.059 --> 00:34:37.000
like going from zero back to where you were prior

00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:44.480
to the explosion I think I learned to row first

00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:46.480
because there was a little bit of an issue with

00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:50.960
me relearning how to run and that they made us

00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:54.820
do these bone density scans, and they wouldn't

00:34:54.820 --> 00:34:58.420
let you get running prosthetics unless you had

00:34:58.420 --> 00:35:03.619
a certain bone density. So it took me a couple

00:35:03.619 --> 00:35:06.320
– it took me a little – a few weeks in order

00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:08.920
to convince them to let me have the running legs.

00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:14.800
Uh, so I think I learned to row, row first, uh,

00:35:14.920 --> 00:35:20.900
out on the water. Um, and you know, took to that

00:35:20.900 --> 00:35:23.420
pretty naturally and, uh, really enjoyed it.

00:35:23.559 --> 00:35:27.079
Um, I would go out there maybe two, three times

00:35:27.079 --> 00:35:30.059
a week and then my, my rowing coach would actually

00:35:30.059 --> 00:35:31.980
come and I convinced the physical therapist to

00:35:31.980 --> 00:35:34.519
let me bring my own rowing machine into the clinic,

00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:37.739
uh, so that I could, uh, so I could train on

00:35:37.739 --> 00:35:40.420
it. Um, and they were more than happy to do that.

00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:44.099
And so he would come in a couple of days a week

00:35:44.099 --> 00:35:45.940
and we would do a workout on the erg machine.

00:35:46.840 --> 00:35:50.119
And then I learned to run and then bike after

00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:54.099
that. And, you know, I was able to run after

00:35:54.099 --> 00:35:55.940
my first, you know, on my first day, I was able

00:35:55.940 --> 00:35:58.420
to take some running steps. So it's, it's kind

00:35:58.420 --> 00:36:03.019
of natural. I had been in prosthetics so long,

00:36:03.019 --> 00:36:05.300
the, the running technique kind of came naturally

00:36:05.300 --> 00:36:10.179
to me, but what took a long time. uh, again,

00:36:10.340 --> 00:36:14.440
just getting my body used to that motion and

00:36:14.440 --> 00:36:18.900
the, uh, the pounding, uh, on my stumps that

00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:24.059
the running, uh, caused. And so I would run maybe

00:36:24.059 --> 00:36:28.679
800 meters, you know, at a time for, as that,

00:36:28.739 --> 00:36:31.579
and that's done for the day, uh, in the beginning.

00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:34.099
And then I would go home and my legs would just

00:36:34.099 --> 00:36:38.099
be extremely sore. I mean, my right one would

00:36:38.099 --> 00:36:40.840
even swell up. So I, one time I got stuck in

00:36:40.840 --> 00:36:43.440
a parking lot because there was so swelled and

00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:46.139
something was pushing on something on my leg

00:36:46.139 --> 00:36:48.980
and it was just so painful. I couldn't walk and

00:36:48.980 --> 00:36:52.280
I had to get carried into the, the, into my room

00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:55.420
and stuff. So, you know, uh, that was a little

00:36:55.420 --> 00:36:57.400
bit frustrating to have to, to go through that,

00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:00.360
but like everything else, you know, I just kept

00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:03.780
doing, kept at it and eventually, you know, I

00:37:03.780 --> 00:37:06.389
can run as long as I wanted. Yeah, well, we'll

00:37:06.389 --> 00:37:07.889
talk about that in a little while because you

00:37:07.889 --> 00:37:10.550
didn't just run. I mean, you went above and beyond.

00:37:10.730 --> 00:37:14.030
I ran more than I wanted. Yes, you did. All right,

00:37:14.070 --> 00:37:17.130
but stick on rowing for a moment. So again, doing

00:37:17.130 --> 00:37:21.269
just more than rowing a little bit. So you actually

00:37:21.269 --> 00:37:26.190
set your eyes on the 2012 Paralympic Games. So

00:37:26.190 --> 00:37:28.949
I read in the bio you moved to Florida to do

00:37:28.949 --> 00:37:31.230
that, to train with your partner. So what was

00:37:31.230 --> 00:37:32.690
that journey and whereabouts here in Florida

00:37:32.690 --> 00:37:39.869
did you train? Yeah. So I realized that in order

00:37:39.869 --> 00:37:44.010
to compete at the top level in the world, you

00:37:44.010 --> 00:37:48.889
have to train every day. And so usually twice

00:37:48.889 --> 00:37:52.849
a day, twice a day, every day. And so I knew

00:37:52.849 --> 00:37:57.010
that in December to March in Washington, D .C.,

00:37:57.010 --> 00:37:59.030
that the likelihood of me being with a row every

00:37:59.030 --> 00:38:06.610
day was not very good. We needed to go to a place

00:38:06.610 --> 00:38:10.650
where we could. So we moved ourselves to where

00:38:10.650 --> 00:38:15.309
we needed to be. We found some coaches down in

00:38:15.309 --> 00:38:17.909
Orlando, and we trained there for about five

00:38:17.909 --> 00:38:21.329
months. Okay, because that's where I work. I

00:38:21.329 --> 00:38:24.730
live in Ocala, and I work down in the fire department

00:38:24.730 --> 00:38:27.289
that protects Disney in Orlando. Awesome. Yeah,

00:38:27.309 --> 00:38:29.929
we trained out of Lake Nona. Oh, I know it well.

00:38:30.449 --> 00:38:35.159
Yeah. Great little lake, very scenic. It was

00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:38.380
perfect for rowing. Absolutely. All right, so

00:38:38.380 --> 00:38:44.800
how did you guys fare in the 2012 Paralympics

00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:49.179
after that training? So we trained for nine months,

00:38:49.239 --> 00:38:53.579
and we got a bronze. That's amazing. Yeah, so

00:38:53.579 --> 00:38:56.619
pretty happy with that, but we wanted to win,

00:38:56.699 --> 00:39:00.289
so we weren't totally satisfied. Nevertheless,

00:39:00.289 --> 00:39:02.989
proud of what we were able to accomplish. Absolutely.

00:39:03.289 --> 00:39:05.929
Now, I meant to ask this as well as a side note.

00:39:06.030 --> 00:39:10.530
Did you ever compete in the Invictus games? No,

00:39:10.590 --> 00:39:12.849
I haven't. And the reason for that is because,

00:39:13.010 --> 00:39:17.110
well, it's only been around, what, since 2014,

00:39:17.110 --> 00:39:23.090
maybe? I think it is, yeah. And so, obviously,

00:39:23.269 --> 00:39:28.139
I was training for rowing. And then... And then

00:39:28.139 --> 00:39:30.300
I did my bike ride. So it's just worked out that

00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:33.679
I wasn't able to go to any of the qualifying

00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:37.519
events. But I do plan to do everything I can

00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:39.519
to make it this year. Okay. Yeah. Because I think

00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:41.280
this might be the last year from what I understand.

00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:43.579
I think Prince Harry. I've heard that. I've heard

00:39:43.579 --> 00:39:45.599
that. I don't know. I've never read it myself,

00:39:45.780 --> 00:39:47.960
but I have heard it. Yeah. But what I was told

00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:50.360
was, I guess, because we've pulled a lot of the

00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:53.539
British forces out of the conflicts. They supposedly

00:39:53.539 --> 00:39:55.739
are not having the military casualties that they

00:39:55.739 --> 00:39:58.239
had before. That was the reason for them originally

00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:00.559
doing it. So they're getting the same athletes

00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:02.519
over and over again. I don't know if that's correct

00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:07.960
or not. But I mean, so what? Yeah, exactly. Why

00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:10.599
is that? Why is that bad? No, exactly. Well,

00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:12.960
I'll have a word. I'll talk to him. Yeah. All

00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:16.639
right. Well, you just mentioned the bike, right?

00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:19.460
So let's talk about this. So I have driven across

00:40:19.460 --> 00:40:22.489
America in a car and that was exhausting. But

00:40:22.489 --> 00:40:25.530
you made a decision to go from Maine to California.

00:40:25.809 --> 00:40:28.869
So can you tell me first how that idea spawned

00:40:28.869 --> 00:40:32.269
and then how the hell you did it? So it took

00:40:32.269 --> 00:40:35.650
me nine months about to relearn how to ride a

00:40:35.650 --> 00:40:39.030
normal bicycle. And I decided to try and do that

00:40:39.030 --> 00:40:43.349
because I enjoyed riding a bicycle. I was actually

00:40:43.349 --> 00:40:44.869
starting to get into mountain biking before I

00:40:44.869 --> 00:40:48.250
got hurt. So I wanted to maybe see if I could

00:40:48.250 --> 00:40:50.949
keep doing that. And so I relearned how to ride

00:40:50.949 --> 00:40:53.800
a bicycle. And on top of that, they said that

00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:55.900
nobody that had come through Walter Reed had

00:40:55.900 --> 00:40:58.960
ever relearned how to ride a bicycle as a double

00:40:58.960 --> 00:41:00.920
above the amputee. So that gave me a little bit

00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:07.320
of extra. It appealed to my frontier and pioneer

00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:11.860
personality where I wanted to see if I could

00:41:11.860 --> 00:41:14.659
figure something else that nobody else had before.

00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:19.760
And it took a lot of time, and so I wanted to

00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:22.909
do something with it. And but, you know, I already

00:41:22.909 --> 00:41:24.809
decided I was going to do the Paralympics, so

00:41:24.809 --> 00:41:26.650
I had to kind of put anything on the back burner.

00:41:27.030 --> 00:41:31.130
And then after I retired from rowing. I decided

00:41:31.130 --> 00:41:34.469
I would ride my bike across the country because

00:41:34.469 --> 00:41:38.369
I wanted to. I wanted to have an effect on on

00:41:38.369 --> 00:41:41.190
the veteran population in that because I saw

00:41:41.190 --> 00:41:43.869
I kept seeing, you know, all these movies and

00:41:43.869 --> 00:41:46.150
stuff about, you know, all they were ever about

00:41:46.150 --> 00:41:48.929
was about how veterans come home with post -traumatic

00:41:48.929 --> 00:41:52.670
stress disorder. And I wanted to provide an alternative

00:41:52.670 --> 00:41:56.050
possibility and an alternative story. And so

00:41:56.050 --> 00:41:58.769
I set out to create my own and ride across the

00:41:58.769 --> 00:42:02.070
country. Okay, so can you tell me the charities

00:42:02.070 --> 00:42:04.809
that you were supporting for that? Because I

00:42:04.809 --> 00:42:07.730
noticed there were several written down. Yeah,

00:42:07.809 --> 00:42:12.110
so the three I supported on that one were Semper

00:42:12.110 --> 00:42:14.389
Fi Fund, the Coalition to Salute America's Heroes,

00:42:14.489 --> 00:42:17.750
and Ride to Recovery. And they're all just, you

00:42:17.750 --> 00:42:21.150
know, wounded veteran charities. that have their

00:42:21.150 --> 00:42:24.929
own unique way of helping veterans recover, get

00:42:24.929 --> 00:42:26.750
back on their feet, and find their new way of

00:42:26.750 --> 00:42:29.630
contributing to their country. Okay, and you

00:42:29.630 --> 00:42:32.289
said it took nine months to get across the country.

00:42:32.349 --> 00:42:34.789
Is that what you said? It took nine months to

00:42:34.789 --> 00:42:37.289
relearn how to ride the bike, and then the whole

00:42:37.289 --> 00:42:41.989
ride took about six months, 5 ,180 miles. Oh,

00:42:42.030 --> 00:42:45.170
my goodness. Now, did you experience injuries

00:42:45.170 --> 00:42:49.539
along the way from such an amazing ride? You

00:42:49.539 --> 00:42:53.579
know, I didn't. Soreness, to be sure, but no

00:42:53.579 --> 00:42:55.980
injuries. The closest I came to injury would

00:42:55.980 --> 00:42:58.420
have been in Missouri. I did this during the

00:42:58.420 --> 00:43:00.480
winter. So in Missouri, there was some black

00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:05.719
ice and I fell and landed pretty hard. But luckily,

00:43:05.900 --> 00:43:08.460
you know, just a little bit of a sore back for

00:43:08.460 --> 00:43:09.980
the next couple of days. Nothing, no injuries.

00:43:10.119 --> 00:43:13.039
So, you know, and all the cars I was riding around,

00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:15.159
I really lucked out. Yeah, that's the people

00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:18.280
you got to watch out for. Yeah. All right. So

00:43:18.280 --> 00:43:22.099
you finished that. Was the marathon idea following

00:43:22.099 --> 00:43:25.639
that? Was there anything in between? So after

00:43:25.639 --> 00:43:29.079
that, I tried to make the Paralympics again for

00:43:29.079 --> 00:43:32.900
triathlon. And so the triathlon was entering

00:43:32.900 --> 00:43:37.619
into the Paralympics in 2016. And so I figured

00:43:37.619 --> 00:43:41.420
I would try and do that. I figured that would

00:43:41.420 --> 00:43:45.320
be the sport that I was most set up for just

00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:48.300
because of the bike ride. And sadly I was not

00:43:48.300 --> 00:43:54.940
able to qualify a lot because I needed more time

00:43:54.940 --> 00:43:58.579
simply to break into their system of ranking

00:43:58.579 --> 00:44:01.340
and qualifying. It takes a really long time to

00:44:01.340 --> 00:44:06.519
do that. But mostly because I was racing on a

00:44:06.519 --> 00:44:08.699
regular bicycle. Most double above knee amputees

00:44:08.699 --> 00:44:11.699
would be racing with hand cycles and push wheelchairs.

00:44:12.519 --> 00:44:15.039
But I decided I was stubborn and I wanted to

00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:18.539
ride my bike. And so I ended up racing against

00:44:18.539 --> 00:44:22.960
single above -knee amputees and people that had

00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:26.980
all their limbs but had cerebral palsy, I think.

00:44:27.340 --> 00:44:30.739
And so they just had such an advantage over me

00:44:30.739 --> 00:44:34.159
on the bike that I was never able to get fast

00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:36.199
enough to catch up to them. They would just blow

00:44:36.199 --> 00:44:38.059
me out of the water, and I would reel them back

00:44:38.059 --> 00:44:41.980
in on the run, but I would never be able to catch

00:44:41.980 --> 00:44:44.739
all the way up. Okay. Well, the other portion

00:44:44.739 --> 00:44:48.139
we haven't discussed yet was swimming. So what

00:44:48.139 --> 00:44:50.420
kind of prosthesis do you use for the swimming

00:44:50.420 --> 00:44:54.659
portion? They do not allow any prosthesis in

00:44:54.659 --> 00:44:58.639
the swimming portion for my category. And so

00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:05.119
what I would do, I would have – so the legs that

00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:08.760
I wore for the running and biking would have

00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:12.480
an inner socket that would fit to my leg. using

00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:17.400
this silicone sleeve and then in order to transition

00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:19.619
quickly i would have the outer socket with the

00:45:19.619 --> 00:45:22.860
actual prosthetic attachment to it uh would be

00:45:22.860 --> 00:45:26.800
separate and so i would attach that with a pin

00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:29.800
to the inner socket so i could switch between

00:45:29.800 --> 00:45:31.679
legs really quickly so it'd just be a matter

00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:33.960
of taking one off and putting one back on instead

00:45:33.960 --> 00:45:35.420
of going through all this other stuff that you

00:45:35.420 --> 00:45:37.619
usually have to do so i would wear the inner

00:45:37.619 --> 00:45:41.780
socket they would allow that um and then so i

00:45:41.780 --> 00:45:43.940
would swim in that take my wetsuit off and then

00:45:43.940 --> 00:45:47.800
put my running legs on run into transition switch

00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:51.500
to my bike legs uh walk out of transition because

00:45:51.500 --> 00:45:53.699
i couldn't run in my bike legs and then ride

00:45:53.699 --> 00:45:56.619
my bike walk back into transition switch legs

00:45:56.619 --> 00:45:59.239
and then go out on the run so my transitions

00:45:59.239 --> 00:46:01.659
actually uh really hurt me as well because i

00:46:01.659 --> 00:46:04.239
wasn't able to uh the single above the amputees

00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:07.920
could kind of hop uh along pretty quickly and

00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:11.719
i just had to you know walk on my bike legs yeah

00:46:11.719 --> 00:46:13.960
that's just areas that you don't think of with

00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:17.480
with um you know a non -amputee or non -paralympic

00:46:17.480 --> 00:46:20.820
type race or olympic event is all these little

00:46:20.820 --> 00:46:23.559
uh you know nuances that would give someone a

00:46:23.559 --> 00:46:26.519
huge advantage in areas yeah it was a pretty

00:46:26.519 --> 00:46:28.420
good system that i had you know for a double

00:46:28.420 --> 00:46:32.219
above the amputee was a really good system but

00:46:32.219 --> 00:46:36.300
uh you know just my injury or my level of my

00:46:36.300 --> 00:46:40.369
disability uh just put me at that slight bit

00:46:40.369 --> 00:46:42.610
of disadvantage that I had to try and overcome,

00:46:42.929 --> 00:46:46.809
but I wasn't able to. Okay, so with the swimming

00:46:46.809 --> 00:46:49.329
then, I just want to get this clear in my head.

00:46:49.449 --> 00:46:51.630
So you had no prosthesis at all, so were you

00:46:51.630 --> 00:46:53.570
basically just swimming with your arms at that

00:46:53.570 --> 00:46:58.429
point? Yeah, well, so swimming is actually mostly

00:46:58.429 --> 00:47:03.789
trunk, and so you kind of grab the water with

00:47:03.789 --> 00:47:06.769
your arm and anchor off of it, and then you use

00:47:06.769 --> 00:47:11.349
your trunk to... kind of uh power yourself past

00:47:11.349 --> 00:47:15.329
your arm and so yeah i wasn't kicking so i was

00:47:15.329 --> 00:47:18.230
just doing all uh arm and trunk yeah that sounds

00:47:18.230 --> 00:47:22.670
exhausting in itself all right so then going

00:47:22.670 --> 00:47:24.710
back to the marathons then so your most recent

00:47:24.710 --> 00:47:27.010
venture this is where i came across you on social

00:47:27.010 --> 00:47:32.869
media um you did 31 marathons in 31 days so firstly

00:47:32.869 --> 00:47:35.480
is there a significance to the number 31 And

00:47:35.480 --> 00:47:37.739
then secondly, how the hell did you prepare for

00:47:37.739 --> 00:47:42.619
that? The number was picked. So I wanted to do,

00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:46.079
I definitely wanted to do marathons because so

00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:48.619
many people identify with marathons and everybody

00:47:48.619 --> 00:47:50.739
in the world knows that the marathon is kind

00:47:50.739 --> 00:47:55.719
of that bucket list item. And it's kind of the,

00:47:55.900 --> 00:47:59.320
it's the tough race that most people identify

00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:01.780
with. You know, obviously there's longer ones,

00:48:01.820 --> 00:48:03.949
but you know. Everybody knows what a marathon

00:48:03.949 --> 00:48:06.809
is pretty much and everybody knows it's tough.

00:48:06.909 --> 00:48:10.150
So I wanted to do marathons and I wanted to do

00:48:10.150 --> 00:48:11.889
something that would kind of make people's brains

00:48:11.889 --> 00:48:15.389
explode. And so I figured I would do just a ton

00:48:15.389 --> 00:48:17.630
of back -to -back marathons. And so when I was

00:48:17.630 --> 00:48:22.309
trying to pick the number, we have – everybody

00:48:22.309 --> 00:48:27.010
knows the number 22 or 20 is more accurate now.

00:48:27.829 --> 00:48:31.739
That is associated with veteran suicide. And

00:48:31.739 --> 00:48:35.460
so I thought about doing 22 in a row. But the

00:48:35.460 --> 00:48:37.820
problem I saw with that was I kind of figured

00:48:37.820 --> 00:48:41.699
that was too – it wasn't enough. It wasn't enough

00:48:41.699 --> 00:48:44.039
marathons because I thought I would get going

00:48:44.039 --> 00:48:46.360
for the first 10 days and then it would be over

00:48:46.360 --> 00:48:49.480
by the time I kind of got some momentum. And

00:48:49.480 --> 00:48:51.380
so I wanted to do it longer. And then I thought,

00:48:51.420 --> 00:48:53.639
well, what if I just do 50 because that's a big

00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:57.659
even number. And I kind of figured that might

00:48:57.659 --> 00:49:01.019
actually be a little bit too long. because I

00:49:01.019 --> 00:49:03.360
thought I would get going and then people would

00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:05.059
kind of lose interest. It's like, well, is he,

00:49:05.139 --> 00:49:09.400
you know, that guy still doing that? And so I

00:49:09.400 --> 00:49:11.320
kind of figured, well, I'll just go in between

00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:14.440
and I'll do a full month of marathons. And so

00:49:14.440 --> 00:49:17.760
the longest month is 31. Okay. And where did

00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:21.159
you, let me rephrase that. Was there any pattern

00:49:21.159 --> 00:49:23.300
that you chose to do these marathons as far as

00:49:23.300 --> 00:49:28.360
geographically? Not really. So I just, I started

00:49:28.360 --> 00:49:31.880
in London. because I wanted to bring in that

00:49:31.880 --> 00:49:36.019
kind of allied forces. They have the same issues

00:49:36.019 --> 00:49:38.400
over there as we do over here, and we didn't

00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:41.639
fight together, so we didn't fight alone overseas,

00:49:41.780 --> 00:49:45.219
so we shouldn't fight alone back here either.

00:49:45.380 --> 00:49:49.460
So I started in London, and then I knew I wanted

00:49:49.460 --> 00:49:52.219
to finish in Washington, D .C. on Veterans Day,

00:49:52.300 --> 00:49:57.369
so I just kind of set it up so that... I had

00:49:57.369 --> 00:50:00.250
to fly from London, so I started on the East

00:50:00.250 --> 00:50:03.389
Coast. Then I just made sure that each city that

00:50:03.389 --> 00:50:08.409
I went to, I would be able to make it after having

00:50:08.409 --> 00:50:12.170
run and then driven there. Most of the cities

00:50:12.170 --> 00:50:14.469
were about six, seven hours apart. The longest

00:50:14.469 --> 00:50:18.550
one was 14 hours apart. That's pretty much how

00:50:18.550 --> 00:50:22.150
I patterned. I went counterclockwise in order

00:50:22.150 --> 00:50:26.519
to hopefully get the northern states. northern

00:50:26.519 --> 00:50:28.920
cities in before it got too cold and then the

00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:31.480
southern cities in after it got super hot so

00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:34.360
right and then the the uh was the underlying

00:50:34.360 --> 00:50:36.860
thing again to raise awareness for veterans coming

00:50:36.860 --> 00:50:39.300
home yeah you know it's just that continuation

00:50:39.300 --> 00:50:42.360
of that same thing is so my first my bike ride

00:50:42.360 --> 00:50:44.639
i called rob jones journey and then this is was

00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:47.860
rob jones journey month of marathon so this is

00:50:47.860 --> 00:50:50.980
just a continuation uh of what i started back

00:50:50.980 --> 00:50:54.780
then and just adding to that story a veteran

00:50:54.780 --> 00:50:57.239
that went overseas and you know found a new way

00:50:57.239 --> 00:50:59.579
to contribute to america keep fighting for fellow

00:50:59.579 --> 00:51:02.579
veterans and just kind of try and hopefully showing

00:51:02.579 --> 00:51:05.619
uh veterans that may be struggling you know that

00:51:05.619 --> 00:51:08.860
it is possible to to have a traumatic experience

00:51:08.860 --> 00:51:11.219
and get past it and actually use it to become

00:51:11.219 --> 00:51:14.980
better right so then so that being said what

00:51:14.980 --> 00:51:17.559
do you think is lacking in the process when our

00:51:17.559 --> 00:51:20.400
veterans come home and what do you see as a solution

00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:29.739
for that Oh man, that's a tough one. I think

00:51:29.739 --> 00:51:39.840
what may happen is we kind of get allowed to

00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:46.280
see ourselves as victims and stagnate and maybe

00:51:46.280 --> 00:51:52.179
even become a little spoiled. So I'll use myself

00:51:52.179 --> 00:51:59.280
as an example. So I – if I could go back and

00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:00.980
change anything about my recovery, I would have

00:52:00.980 --> 00:52:04.400
gotten out of my wheelchair earlier and just

00:52:04.400 --> 00:52:06.960
thrown it in a trash can or something and just

00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:09.059
totally gotten rid of it because I definitely

00:52:09.059 --> 00:52:12.039
would have – I ended up having a reliance on

00:52:12.039 --> 00:52:14.900
that wheelchair. I was allowing myself to rely

00:52:14.900 --> 00:52:19.119
on it. And so I kind of got stuck in that groove

00:52:19.119 --> 00:52:21.760
of – wanting to use the wheelchair everywhere

00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:25.119
I went, and it was kind of scary to commit to

00:52:25.119 --> 00:52:30.599
walking everywhere. And so I just fell back on

00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:37.480
the wheelchair. Nobody really pushed me to get

00:52:37.480 --> 00:52:39.579
rid of the wheelchair. It was a very supportive

00:52:39.579 --> 00:52:42.260
environment, and they wanted everybody to kind

00:52:42.260 --> 00:52:44.340
of go at their own pace, but sometimes people

00:52:44.340 --> 00:52:48.219
do need a little bit of a... a push in some,

00:52:48.219 --> 00:52:50.260
in some directions. And, you know, we were all,

00:52:50.320 --> 00:52:52.820
sometimes people would be allowed just to not

00:52:52.820 --> 00:52:55.099
even go to therapy and just, you know, say, screw

00:52:55.099 --> 00:53:00.699
it. Um, and so, you know, and everybody in the,

00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:04.760
in the area was, was catering to us. And, and

00:53:04.760 --> 00:53:06.619
so, you know, that could, that kind of allowed

00:53:06.619 --> 00:53:10.119
me to feel, I think I got a little bit spoiled

00:53:10.119 --> 00:53:12.280
by that and I kind of expected certain things.

00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:15.099
And, you know, I don't think that that was great.

00:53:15.599 --> 00:53:18.219
And so I kind of had to re -correct for that

00:53:18.219 --> 00:53:26.099
after I left the military. And then you see,

00:53:26.260 --> 00:53:31.340
I just read that book Tribe by Sebastian Younger.

00:53:31.719 --> 00:53:34.860
Yeah, I had him on when I started the podcast

00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:36.639
and I had him on just the other day as well for

00:53:36.639 --> 00:53:38.880
a second time. Amazing. Oh, awesome. Yeah, it

00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:41.639
was a really good book. And I liked a lot of

00:53:41.639 --> 00:53:43.739
the stuff that it said in it, but it had this

00:53:43.739 --> 00:53:46.659
one section about the wounded veterans, and it

00:53:46.659 --> 00:53:52.860
talked about how the government should cure wounded

00:53:52.860 --> 00:53:55.400
veterans, how society can cure wounded veterans.

00:53:57.039 --> 00:53:59.539
But it didn't say anything about how the wounded

00:53:59.539 --> 00:54:07.199
veteran can cure themselves. So it took the personal

00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:10.710
responsibility of the veteran out of it. Out

00:54:10.710 --> 00:54:15.349
of the equation. And so I kind of think there's

00:54:15.349 --> 00:54:19.349
a little bit of a pervading atmosphere of that,

00:54:19.429 --> 00:54:24.570
that the veteran isn't responsible for their

00:54:24.570 --> 00:54:27.230
own recovery and that it should be the government

00:54:27.230 --> 00:54:29.050
or it should be the military, it should be the

00:54:29.050 --> 00:54:32.150
VA that gives them a magic pill or gives them

00:54:32.150 --> 00:54:34.510
a magic method that automatically cures them

00:54:34.510 --> 00:54:38.530
or gives them enough money to. find the this

00:54:38.530 --> 00:54:41.730
magic thing that cures them when really it's

00:54:41.730 --> 00:54:45.110
them taking personal responsibility for it um

00:54:45.110 --> 00:54:55.150
and so i definitely think that it's it's important

00:54:55.150 --> 00:54:58.150
that all these all these organizations and all

00:54:58.150 --> 00:55:01.909
and you know society wants to help wounded veterans

00:55:01.909 --> 00:55:04.690
that is definitely uh that's that's should be

00:55:04.690 --> 00:55:08.070
a requirement But we just have to remember that

00:55:08.070 --> 00:55:12.869
we are all warriors and we are responsible for

00:55:12.869 --> 00:55:16.030
that personally. Does that make sense? No, it

00:55:16.030 --> 00:55:18.250
does. And you walk the walk exactly. And I think

00:55:18.250 --> 00:55:21.210
that's what we're seeing because PTSD in first

00:55:21.210 --> 00:55:24.929
responders has been suppressed incredibly. The

00:55:24.929 --> 00:55:27.429
whole being able to even accept it. It's like

00:55:27.429 --> 00:55:29.170
the military can accept it and that's fine, but

00:55:29.170 --> 00:55:32.789
we're different. It's still being soft if you

00:55:32.789 --> 00:55:36.340
admit that you... struggling and it's now finally

00:55:36.340 --> 00:55:38.480
starting to gain some traction but now what you're

00:55:38.480 --> 00:55:41.699
seeing is on the fringes you've still got the

00:55:41.699 --> 00:55:44.340
ridiculous notion that it doesn't exist but then

00:55:44.340 --> 00:55:46.579
on the other side you've almost got you can see

00:55:46.579 --> 00:55:49.239
this just kind of rumblings of well you know

00:55:49.239 --> 00:55:50.719
we'll get this to go through and then we can

00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:52.519
retire and never do anything again and that's

00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:54.159
completely wrong as well and just like you've

00:55:54.159 --> 00:55:56.099
proven physically with your physical injuries

00:55:56.099 --> 00:55:58.039
and and really let's be honest with your mental

00:55:58.039 --> 00:56:00.860
injuries as well you've you've come come out

00:56:00.860 --> 00:56:03.340
a lot stronger from that too is the the middle

00:56:03.340 --> 00:56:06.019
ground is you get hurt absolutely you're going

00:56:06.019 --> 00:56:08.159
to need some time and and and medical treatment

00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:10.400
whatever it is to heal your mental injury to

00:56:10.400 --> 00:56:12.519
heal your physical injury but the goal at the

00:56:12.519 --> 00:56:15.780
end of it is to come back stronger and you absolutely

00:56:15.780 --> 00:56:18.980
walk the walk and i think that that that other

00:56:18.980 --> 00:56:20.960
fringe is is what we're talking about there is

00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:24.639
that you know that small amount of people that

00:56:24.639 --> 00:56:27.710
see it as an opportunity just to to not address

00:56:27.710 --> 00:56:30.090
it instead of coming back stronger and learning

00:56:30.090 --> 00:56:33.090
from it. Yeah. You know, I'm not, and I'm, I'm

00:56:33.090 --> 00:56:36.409
certainly not saying that, um, if you need help,

00:56:36.449 --> 00:56:38.429
it's, you shouldn't, you know, try and get help,

00:56:38.469 --> 00:56:43.690
but you definitely should. Um, uh, you need to

00:56:43.690 --> 00:56:45.329
do whatever you need to do in order to heal.

00:56:45.349 --> 00:56:50.869
That is my point. And so if that involves, uh,

00:56:51.090 --> 00:56:53.429
so for me, it was pretty clear cut. I needed

00:56:53.429 --> 00:56:58.179
to go into therapy and get prosthetic legs and

00:56:58.179 --> 00:57:01.000
get myself stronger and practice with the prosthetic

00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:04.039
legs and do all that stuff if i you know if i

00:57:04.039 --> 00:57:06.579
didn't do all that stuff i'm i would never have

00:57:06.579 --> 00:57:09.119
learned how to use i would just be sitting around

00:57:09.119 --> 00:57:12.420
in a wheelchair in a bed all day i still had

00:57:12.420 --> 00:57:14.199
to go out and do all that stuff and just wanting

00:57:14.199 --> 00:57:18.059
to be able to walk on my legs uh wasn't going

00:57:18.059 --> 00:57:19.699
to get me there i had to go out and do the work

00:57:19.699 --> 00:57:22.789
and so it's a little bit different with these

00:57:22.789 --> 00:57:25.710
psychological injuries because it's not exactly

00:57:25.710 --> 00:57:30.409
clear what you're supposed to do to recover from

00:57:30.409 --> 00:57:34.909
that. I mean, nobody really knows for sure. And

00:57:34.909 --> 00:57:38.050
so it's a lot harder to figure that out and actually

00:57:38.050 --> 00:57:41.449
do it. But you can't just sit around and wait

00:57:41.449 --> 00:57:44.949
for the government to figure it out. You can't

00:57:44.949 --> 00:57:47.170
sit around and wait for the VA to figure it out.

00:57:47.210 --> 00:57:49.170
You have to go out and just try everything you

00:57:49.170 --> 00:57:52.469
can. Uh, and do the, do research yourself and

00:57:52.469 --> 00:57:55.630
just try everything, um, in order to make that

00:57:55.630 --> 00:57:58.369
happen. So you are ultimately responsible. You

00:57:58.369 --> 00:58:03.429
know, if I went into the clinic and I said, I

00:58:03.429 --> 00:58:06.829
don't really feel like walking today, I'm just

00:58:06.829 --> 00:58:09.869
going to go home. The therapist would probably

00:58:09.869 --> 00:58:14.630
say, well, okay, you know, all right. And no,

00:58:14.710 --> 00:58:16.860
it would have no effect on their. They would

00:58:16.860 --> 00:58:19.019
go home to their families at night and they would

00:58:19.019 --> 00:58:21.079
have their normal life. It didn't affect them.

00:58:22.059 --> 00:58:23.980
Whereas I'm the one that has to live with that

00:58:23.980 --> 00:58:25.860
every single day for the rest of my life. So

00:58:25.860 --> 00:58:28.579
I needed to take the personal responsibility.

00:58:29.559 --> 00:58:31.400
Yeah, and that's what we're seeing sadly in our

00:58:31.400 --> 00:58:34.639
civilian population as well. they're going into

00:58:34.639 --> 00:58:38.239
these doctors offices demanding statins and and

00:58:38.239 --> 00:58:41.179
you know painkillers instead of taking the time

00:58:41.179 --> 00:58:44.039
and investing in themselves in reversing you

00:58:44.039 --> 00:58:45.760
know whatever disease process they've started

00:58:45.760 --> 00:58:48.239
through exercise through nutrition and taking

00:58:48.239 --> 00:58:51.300
ownership of their own health yeah there's uh

00:58:51.300 --> 00:58:55.239
it's yes it's a that that sentiment is definitely

00:58:55.239 --> 00:58:59.360
universal it's a there seems to be a a sentiment

00:58:59.360 --> 00:59:03.159
now that uh people are expecting You know, they

00:59:03.159 --> 00:59:07.460
say we have so many homeless people in this country.

00:59:07.519 --> 00:59:09.320
Somebody should do something about that. You

00:59:09.320 --> 00:59:11.420
know, it's like, well, we all recognize that

00:59:11.420 --> 00:59:13.860
there's a problem, but nobody's actually willing

00:59:13.860 --> 00:59:17.099
to take that problem, you know, take the responsibility

00:59:17.099 --> 00:59:19.320
for solving it. Well, somebody should do it.

00:59:19.320 --> 00:59:22.599
You know, not me, but somebody. Yeah, no, exactly.

00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:26.250
And also, I think the other issue was. And that's

00:59:26.250 --> 00:59:29.190
tarring an entire spectrum of people with the

00:59:29.190 --> 00:59:31.250
same brush, everyone from the people that are

00:59:31.250 --> 00:59:33.429
jumping in the Mercedes at the end of the day

00:59:33.429 --> 00:59:35.409
and going back to their mansion, which we hear

00:59:35.409 --> 00:59:37.329
these horror stories all the way through to the

00:59:37.329 --> 00:59:40.510
veterans or whoever with mental health issues

00:59:40.510 --> 00:59:43.650
that truly need the help to get off the streets

00:59:43.650 --> 00:59:46.230
and back on their feet again. Yeah, and I just

00:59:46.230 --> 00:59:50.130
want to get it out there that the only possibility

00:59:50.130 --> 00:59:54.110
isn't the veteran that comes home. With severe

00:59:54.110 --> 00:59:56.170
psychological injuries. I want to get that whole

00:59:56.170 --> 00:59:58.550
I'm not saying that we should ignore that or

00:59:58.550 --> 01:00:00.289
that isn't something that happens It certainly

01:00:00.289 --> 01:00:02.190
is and we need to address that and we need to

01:00:02.190 --> 01:00:05.090
do everything we can for those people but it

01:00:05.090 --> 01:00:08.969
is not the only possibility and And so I just

01:00:08.969 --> 01:00:11.090
want both sides of those, you know Both sides

01:00:11.090 --> 01:00:12.829
of that coin to be out there so that people can

01:00:12.829 --> 01:00:15.969
just have a better understanding of you know

01:00:15.969 --> 01:00:18.969
What it's like to be a wounded veteran. Yeah

01:00:19.400 --> 01:00:21.579
Well, I mean, I tell you right now from, again,

01:00:21.639 --> 01:00:24.039
the outside looking in, I'm a fireman, I'm not

01:00:24.039 --> 01:00:28.119
a soldier, and I'm a viewer on social media,

01:00:28.219 --> 01:00:30.900
but that is definitely the message that I'm getting

01:00:30.900 --> 01:00:33.739
from you and your other fellow veterans that

01:00:33.739 --> 01:00:36.039
are out there inspiring people and not using

01:00:36.039 --> 01:00:39.420
whatever injury, mental or physical, as an excuse.

01:00:39.579 --> 01:00:41.320
Now, obviously, it's a horrendous injury. We're

01:00:41.320 --> 01:00:44.860
not taking that away. But to me, that gives us

01:00:44.860 --> 01:00:49.530
even more respect that someone is not only, doing

01:00:49.530 --> 01:00:51.650
extremely well physically or inspiring people

01:00:51.650 --> 01:00:54.969
with a with a a body that's uninjured but to

01:00:54.969 --> 01:00:57.289
go through that heal from the trauma and then

01:00:57.289 --> 01:01:01.570
come back and and instead of uh create almost

01:01:01.570 --> 01:01:04.570
a victim mentality but use that as an inspiration

01:01:04.570 --> 01:01:06.949
to stop other people from going through similar

01:01:06.949 --> 01:01:10.650
things or inspire other uh injured people to

01:01:10.650 --> 01:01:13.090
be an athlete to get out there and have a full

01:01:13.090 --> 01:01:15.369
life i mean it's incredible and i and my hat's

01:01:15.369 --> 01:01:17.909
off to you yeah well you know that's what i hope

01:01:17.909 --> 01:01:20.599
uh Hope to get out there. But, you know, I also

01:01:20.599 --> 01:01:23.699
have to say at the same time, I've never struggled

01:01:23.699 --> 01:01:27.159
with post -traumatic stress. So I don't have

01:01:27.159 --> 01:01:29.340
firsthand knowledge of it. And this is kind of

01:01:29.340 --> 01:01:32.880
my theory. And so having never struggled with

01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:34.659
it, it's easy for me to say a lot of this stuff.

01:01:36.099 --> 01:01:39.019
And so, you know, I realize that there's a lot

01:01:39.019 --> 01:01:41.039
more to it than just deciding to do something.

01:01:41.619 --> 01:01:44.179
Yeah. Well, I think, though, to counter that

01:01:44.179 --> 01:01:47.539
just for a moment, Tim Kennedy, about a year

01:01:47.539 --> 01:01:50.219
ago now, It was just a post on Facebook, but

01:01:50.219 --> 01:01:53.559
it was amazing with the fact that he is aware

01:01:53.559 --> 01:01:56.820
of the trauma, but the way he got over it was

01:01:56.820 --> 01:01:58.719
getting up every day and fulfilling his life

01:01:58.719 --> 01:02:02.099
and doing good in the world, trying to be that

01:02:02.099 --> 01:02:05.199
sheepdog. And that's what kept him with that

01:02:05.199 --> 01:02:07.980
strong mentality. And I think that that's maybe

01:02:07.980 --> 01:02:11.519
the underlying reason why you haven't. had the

01:02:11.519 --> 01:02:14.940
ptsd you know the actual disorder side is you've

01:02:14.940 --> 01:02:18.340
taken that stress and and you've turned it around

01:02:18.340 --> 01:02:20.860
and not only overcome it physically and using

01:02:20.860 --> 01:02:24.179
exercise but also giving yourself a mission to

01:02:24.179 --> 01:02:26.900
give back which is probably the complete polar

01:02:26.900 --> 01:02:30.039
opposite of of the the disorder side of ptsd

01:02:30.039 --> 01:02:33.480
yeah so you know maybe um you know i've never

01:02:33.480 --> 01:02:35.880
never experienced it but uh hopefully this will

01:02:35.880 --> 01:02:38.820
be it's kind of like you know this is an idea

01:02:38.820 --> 01:02:41.820
for you to try maybe uh Yeah, so that's a good

01:02:41.820 --> 01:02:45.079
point. Okay, well then I guess the last question

01:02:45.079 --> 01:02:46.920
before we do some short wrap -up questions would

01:02:46.920 --> 01:02:50.820
be do you have another physical feat that you

01:02:50.820 --> 01:02:57.460
are planning? Not right now. I don't have it

01:02:57.460 --> 01:02:59.420
because, you know, the month of marathons was

01:02:59.420 --> 01:03:04.920
like kind of a perfect storm of, you know, running

01:03:04.920 --> 01:03:07.079
in all these different cities that were, you

01:03:07.079 --> 01:03:09.510
know, get so many eyeballs on it and then. the

01:03:09.510 --> 01:03:11.289
marathon is something that everybody identifies

01:03:11.289 --> 01:03:14.050
with and it was uh you know i think it was just

01:03:14.050 --> 01:03:17.849
about the right uh length of time spent and you

01:03:17.849 --> 01:03:20.630
know it was it was something that i you know

01:03:20.630 --> 01:03:24.170
people did not expect me to be very fast because

01:03:24.170 --> 01:03:26.690
i'm a double above knee amputee so people would

01:03:26.690 --> 01:03:29.590
not expect that i'd be able to actually run uh

01:03:29.590 --> 01:03:32.449
very fast at all and i kind of you know dispelled

01:03:32.449 --> 01:03:35.349
that method so it was kind of a perfect storm

01:03:35.349 --> 01:03:38.570
and all that uh In that regard. And so I have

01:03:38.570 --> 01:03:41.610
to really take my time. I don't want to do something

01:03:41.610 --> 01:03:45.150
just to do it. Just to say that I did something.

01:03:45.250 --> 01:03:47.530
I want to do something that interests me and

01:03:47.530 --> 01:03:51.929
can really have that maximum effect. And so I

01:03:51.929 --> 01:03:53.769
really need to take a lot of time in order to

01:03:53.769 --> 01:03:58.349
figure out what that might be. And so right now

01:03:58.349 --> 01:04:02.190
I'm toying with the idea of maybe doing some

01:04:02.190 --> 01:04:05.539
like 100 mile. ruck marches or something so nothing

01:04:05.539 --> 01:04:07.400
that would take a month or anything but maybe

01:04:07.400 --> 01:04:10.019
something that might take a you know a few days

01:04:10.019 --> 01:04:12.019
and then i could do that maybe several times

01:04:12.019 --> 01:04:15.500
throughout the year i don't know but uh um nothing

01:04:15.500 --> 01:04:18.179
that i'm committing to at the moment okay and

01:04:18.179 --> 01:04:20.880
once i commit to it that means i'm doing it and

01:04:20.880 --> 01:04:24.659
so you don't want to commit so i will not commit

01:04:24.659 --> 01:04:29.320
to it until uh until i'm absolutely sure all

01:04:29.320 --> 01:04:31.340
right well one other thing as well so you learn

01:04:31.710 --> 01:04:34.010
How to walk, how to run, how to row, how to cycle,

01:04:34.070 --> 01:04:37.050
how to swim. Is there anything that you either

01:04:37.050 --> 01:04:39.269
did before the injury or you've never done in

01:04:39.269 --> 01:04:42.530
your life that you, aside from any challenge

01:04:42.530 --> 01:04:44.489
or fundraiser, just something that you have wanted

01:04:44.489 --> 01:04:47.150
to try or get back to that you haven't yet since

01:04:47.150 --> 01:04:56.090
you got hurt? Nothing that I'm really missing

01:04:56.090 --> 01:04:59.510
a whole lot. I need to try. I used to play racquetball

01:04:59.510 --> 01:05:02.710
in college. I really enjoyed that. And I'm sure

01:05:02.710 --> 01:05:04.869
I could again. I just haven't taken the time

01:05:04.869 --> 01:05:07.449
to go in and try and do that. I wouldn't mind

01:05:07.449 --> 01:05:09.969
doing some snowboarding or skiing. I've never

01:05:09.969 --> 01:05:11.909
done that before really. I've done it once before

01:05:11.909 --> 01:05:14.829
when I was able -bodied. So I wouldn't mind just

01:05:14.829 --> 01:05:18.829
trying that and seeing what that's like. Mountain

01:05:18.829 --> 01:05:23.650
biking, I would like to try. So the problem for

01:05:23.650 --> 01:05:26.449
me in mountain biking is I can't get on a bike

01:05:26.449 --> 01:05:31.219
going uphill at a certain steepness. It would

01:05:31.219 --> 01:05:34.960
be very tricky and risky for me to try and go

01:05:34.960 --> 01:05:38.079
mountain biking because if I didn't make it up

01:05:38.079 --> 01:05:42.099
a hill, then I'm kind of screwed. So I'll just

01:05:42.099 --> 01:05:44.159
leave it at those three. So there's a few things,

01:05:44.360 --> 01:05:48.000
but nothing that I'm really dying to get back

01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:50.119
to. Right. Yeah, snowboarding sounds like an

01:05:50.119 --> 01:05:52.539
awesome one because you can wipe out on a board

01:05:52.539 --> 01:05:56.539
and still be pretty good. Yeah, exactly. And,

01:05:56.579 --> 01:05:59.679
you know, like getting in the gym was probably

01:05:59.679 --> 01:06:02.940
would if I hadn't been able to do that, then

01:06:02.940 --> 01:06:05.119
that would be eating at me. But, you know, I

01:06:05.119 --> 01:06:09.300
was able to, you know, figure out ways to that.

01:06:09.380 --> 01:06:11.659
I could still be able to lift weights like I

01:06:11.659 --> 01:06:13.400
was. I can't do everything. I can't do squats

01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:15.679
or anything like that. But I I figured out how

01:06:15.679 --> 01:06:18.920
to do deadlifts when I was in the clinic. I had

01:06:18.920 --> 01:06:21.440
my physical therapist put a belt around my waist

01:06:21.440 --> 01:06:25.690
and kind of hold my lower half up. and then so

01:06:25.690 --> 01:06:27.449
that my upper half got so basically i would do

01:06:27.449 --> 01:06:30.369
a straight leg deadlift and i kind of evolved

01:06:30.369 --> 01:06:34.130
that into i'll just tie myself off to a squat

01:06:34.130 --> 01:06:37.210
rack or a pole and then i'll do deadlifts and

01:06:37.210 --> 01:06:39.469
when i was rowing i could do 300 pounds so you

01:06:39.469 --> 01:06:42.449
know i was able to get a pretty decent uh lift

01:06:42.449 --> 01:06:45.150
yeah that is a decent lift yeah i think i was

01:06:45.150 --> 01:06:48.329
telling uh bj miller the doctor i mentioned before

01:06:48.329 --> 01:06:52.699
it seems like um This sounds like a weird thing

01:06:52.699 --> 01:06:55.239
to say, a great time to be an amputee, but that

01:06:55.239 --> 01:06:58.280
adaptive world, especially in the CrossFit world,

01:06:58.420 --> 01:07:02.900
you're seeing so many certification programs

01:07:02.900 --> 01:07:06.320
now and so many creative ways of working around

01:07:06.320 --> 01:07:10.420
some sort of amputee. amputation or or injury

01:07:10.420 --> 01:07:13.599
whereas these athletes something like quadruple

01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:17.900
um i'm assuming from birth amputees or or uh

01:07:17.900 --> 01:07:20.320
you know no limbs on on the upper or lower body

01:07:20.320 --> 01:07:22.380
and they're still able to do cleans and these

01:07:22.380 --> 01:07:24.840
amazing movements so yeah it's just a matter

01:07:24.840 --> 01:07:28.079
of taking the time to figure it out man uh you

01:07:28.079 --> 01:07:30.320
just have to want to want to try and do it and

01:07:30.320 --> 01:07:33.239
then you just experiment see what works see what

01:07:33.239 --> 01:07:35.920
doesn't work and there's actually a uh there's

01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:39.409
a gym down in texas that is entirely dedicated

01:07:39.409 --> 01:07:44.949
to disabled athletes. All they do is train disabled

01:07:44.949 --> 01:07:47.510
athletes, which is actually an idea I had when

01:07:47.510 --> 01:07:49.610
I was in the hospital, and I'm glad that somebody

01:07:49.610 --> 01:07:53.769
was able to do it. I wish I could remember the

01:07:53.769 --> 01:07:58.550
name. But yeah, it's down in Texas, and they're

01:07:58.550 --> 01:08:01.090
doing that. All they do is train disabled athletes.

01:08:01.369 --> 01:08:03.610
That's phenomenal. Have you visited it yourself?

01:08:05.029 --> 01:08:08.769
No, I want to, and I've been emailing him, and

01:08:08.769 --> 01:08:13.530
we're in talks, so I will go down there. It's

01:08:13.530 --> 01:08:17.970
called Adaptive Training Foundation. So he's

01:08:17.970 --> 01:08:22.329
a former football player, and he just got together

01:08:22.329 --> 01:08:25.750
with somebody, and it's awesome. So I do plan

01:08:25.750 --> 01:08:28.250
on going down there at some point. Fantastic.

01:08:28.880 --> 01:08:30.819
All right. Well, you've been very, very generous

01:08:30.819 --> 01:08:32.100
with your time. I've got a couple of wrap -up

01:08:32.100 --> 01:08:34.640
questions and then I'll let you get on with your

01:08:34.640 --> 01:08:37.380
day. The first one I always ask people, is there

01:08:37.380 --> 01:08:40.239
a book that you recommend to people? It can be

01:08:40.239 --> 01:08:44.880
about anything. Man, there'd be so many books.

01:08:45.460 --> 01:08:49.399
My favorite book from a fiction perspective is

01:08:49.399 --> 01:08:56.520
Gates of Fire. That'd probably be the one that

01:08:56.520 --> 01:09:00.029
I would recommend. Let me think. Nonfiction.

01:09:02.529 --> 01:09:05.050
I do like Jocko's book for nonfiction in terms

01:09:05.050 --> 01:09:08.750
of the mental mindset. Extreme ownership. Yeah.

01:09:10.050 --> 01:09:12.210
Well, all three of them, I guess, would probably

01:09:12.210 --> 01:09:15.489
be good. But I think those would probably be

01:09:15.489 --> 01:09:21.149
my two, just for that mental aspect. Okay. And

01:09:21.149 --> 01:09:22.470
I know you were on his show. I haven't had a

01:09:22.470 --> 01:09:25.229
chance to listen to that yet. It's on my queue

01:09:25.229 --> 01:09:27.270
to listen to on the podcast because I love his

01:09:27.270 --> 01:09:29.630
stuff too. Oh, yeah, it was a lot of fun. That

01:09:29.630 --> 01:09:31.989
was a really cool experience. And as is this.

01:09:32.810 --> 01:09:36.470
All right, the next question. Is there a guest

01:09:36.470 --> 01:09:38.810
that you would recommend come on this podcast

01:09:38.810 --> 01:09:41.569
to talk to the police, fire, EMS of the world?

01:09:44.069 --> 01:09:48.850
Let me think. I'm going to have to think about

01:09:48.850 --> 01:09:51.970
that one, man. I guess a lot of people stumped.

01:09:51.970 --> 01:09:55.090
I should probably email them ahead of time. Well,

01:09:55.109 --> 01:09:59.210
there's just so many people. What kind of a guest

01:09:59.210 --> 01:10:02.550
would you need? Because I have a lot of people.

01:10:02.609 --> 01:10:07.409
If you need somebody to talk about training for

01:10:07.409 --> 01:10:10.449
fires or to talk about stuff like I'm talking

01:10:10.449 --> 01:10:13.149
about. I would say just someone unique who's

01:10:13.149 --> 01:10:16.750
inspired you that made you realize something

01:10:16.750 --> 01:10:18.609
you'd never thought about before. That's kind

01:10:18.609 --> 01:10:24.810
of the angle I like. Yeah, yeah. I would recommend

01:10:24.810 --> 01:10:33.810
Bobby Henline because he is a guy – and it might

01:10:33.810 --> 01:10:38.050
– dealing with fires, he was burned over 30 percent

01:10:38.050 --> 01:10:40.449
of his – or he was third -degree burns over a

01:10:40.449 --> 01:10:45.350
large proportion of his body in Iraq. And now

01:10:45.350 --> 01:10:49.409
he does stand -up comedy. And so I would recommend

01:10:49.409 --> 01:10:52.170
him. And so you might have some firefighters

01:10:52.170 --> 01:10:54.239
that – have some severe burns. I don't know.

01:10:54.319 --> 01:10:56.739
Yeah, we do. Actually, my very first guest, Mitch

01:10:56.739 --> 01:10:58.819
Dreyer, was severely burned. He actually was

01:10:58.819 --> 01:11:00.560
an amputee as well. He lost one of his arms in

01:11:00.560 --> 01:11:04.119
the burn. Yeah. Fantastic. All right. Yeah, I

01:11:04.119 --> 01:11:05.840
could put you guys in touch if you want. Please,

01:11:05.859 --> 01:11:08.359
please do. I'd love that. And then the last one

01:11:08.359 --> 01:11:10.560
before we talk about where we can find you online

01:11:10.560 --> 01:11:13.300
is what do you do to decompress when you are

01:11:13.300 --> 01:11:16.279
not either cycling across the country or doing

01:11:16.279 --> 01:11:19.239
multiple marathons? You know, I like to read

01:11:19.239 --> 01:11:24.850
a book. or, yeah, read books, listen to podcasts.

01:11:26.250 --> 01:11:29.449
I'm getting into hunting, so I'll take that up

01:11:29.449 --> 01:11:32.550
as a hobby. I like, you know, that's, you know,

01:11:32.569 --> 01:11:35.529
it's fun, you know, you get some meat, and then,

01:11:35.529 --> 01:11:36.970
you know, you get to hang out with your friends

01:11:36.970 --> 01:11:39.729
for the day, and there's a lot of camaraderie

01:11:39.729 --> 01:11:42.170
that comes along with that. So, yeah, just that

01:11:42.170 --> 01:11:45.529
kind of stuff. Brilliant. And then the very last

01:11:45.529 --> 01:11:47.930
thing then, so where can people listening find

01:11:47.930 --> 01:11:52.090
you, and are there any sites that, you were looking

01:11:52.090 --> 01:11:55.789
for funding for as far as charities uh my website

01:11:55.789 --> 01:11:59.869
is robjonesjourney .com and any kind of if they

01:11:59.869 --> 01:12:02.090
do want to donate to what i've done uh you can

01:12:02.090 --> 01:12:03.810
still do that on my website you just go to the

01:12:03.810 --> 01:12:06.390
main page and it'll be there uh and there'll

01:12:06.390 --> 01:12:08.090
be all sorts of information about the charities

01:12:08.090 --> 01:12:12.390
that i raise money for um and the oh you know

01:12:12.390 --> 01:12:15.170
we didn't mention the third one i actually changed

01:12:15.170 --> 01:12:19.359
my third one so this uh My marathon challenge

01:12:19.359 --> 01:12:21.340
was Semper Fi fun coolest to salute America's

01:12:21.340 --> 01:12:23.399
heroes and the tunnel to towers foundation Which

01:12:23.399 --> 01:12:25.899
I'm you probably might have heard of absolutely

01:12:25.899 --> 01:12:29.239
yes, so I raised money for them on this month

01:12:29.239 --> 01:12:32.119
of marathons And uh have you ever done have you

01:12:32.119 --> 01:12:34.300
thought about doing their tower climb in New

01:12:34.300 --> 01:12:37.340
York um I have yet I there's multiple things

01:12:37.340 --> 01:12:38.760
that I want to do and that's one of them the

01:12:38.760 --> 01:12:41.920
tunnels of towers and the climb Okay, so yeah,

01:12:41.979 --> 01:12:43.399
well I'm gonna be doing that this year, so you

01:12:43.399 --> 01:12:45.180
should come up and join my I always make a team

01:12:45.920 --> 01:12:47.739
So you should come up and be on my team this

01:12:47.739 --> 01:12:51.000
year if you can make it. In September? The run

01:12:51.000 --> 01:12:53.399
is September. I think the tower climb is usually

01:12:53.399 --> 01:12:56.380
June. Okay, let's make that work. I will say

01:12:56.380 --> 01:12:59.739
publicly now. Let's do it. I'm going to hold

01:12:59.739 --> 01:13:01.680
you to it. There we go. Now you've got me stuck.

01:13:02.180 --> 01:13:04.579
If you pull out, I'm going to publicly shame

01:13:04.579 --> 01:13:08.590
you on Twitter. All right. Well, again, thank

01:13:08.590 --> 01:13:10.229
you so much. I really appreciate it. I know I

01:13:10.229 --> 01:13:12.829
just reached out randomly online and you immediately

01:13:12.829 --> 01:13:14.930
said yes. So I'm so glad we're able to have this

01:13:14.930 --> 01:13:17.630
conversation. I know it's going to be A, inspiring

01:13:17.630 --> 01:13:21.130
to the first responders out there, but B, again,

01:13:21.270 --> 01:13:23.770
make people think about injuries and challenges

01:13:23.770 --> 01:13:27.029
and are they really going to alter your life

01:13:27.029 --> 01:13:28.430
or are you just going to be able to overcome

01:13:28.430 --> 01:13:30.850
them just like you've shown us you can. So thank

01:13:30.850 --> 01:13:34.239
you so much for talking to us today. Thanks a

01:13:34.239 --> 01:13:35.920
lot, man. I appreciate you having me on. And

01:13:35.920 --> 01:13:39.600
I hope people just are able to use this and figure

01:13:39.600 --> 01:13:41.479
out exactly what you just said.