Welcome, guys, to episode 67 of Behind the Shield
podcast. My name is James Geering, and this week
I bring to you an incredible man who I think
is an inspiration and really sets the bar as
to the challenges of life. Rob Jones was an engineer
with the Marine Corps out in Afghanistan and
was caught in an IED explosion, lost both his
legs. And instead of letting that injury define
him and make him crumble, he decided to use it
as an inspiration. Rob has been an Olympian with
the rowing team. He has done 31 marathons in
31 days and is just... basically hatching more
ways to show everyone that their injuries don't
define them and that life is not over when we
get challenges. So this was an incredible episode
yet again. So many great minds on this podcast.
But Rob was truly inspiring. I loved talking
to him and the positivity and inspiration from
this man was mind -blowing. So before we get
to the interview, as always, if you could go
to iTunes, I implore you to give us a review,
give us a rating. I hear five out of five is
the way to go in the podcast world. It makes
us more visible. And then again, just pick an
episode. Think of a friend who would be inspired
by that particular guest and share it. If we
all share the three people, they share the three
people before you know it, every first responder
is going to hear this podcast. So without further
ado, I introduce to you an incredible man, Rob
Jones. Enjoy. All right, well, welcome, Rob,
to the Behind the Shield podcast. Where are we
finding you today? I live in Vienna, Virginia.
It's right outside DC. Okay, and was that where
you were born? Well, no, I was born in Columbia,
Maryland, which is close to here. And then I
grew up in Loudoun County, Virginia, which is
just a little bit further west of where I am.
So I'm in my home area. Okay, fantastic. So what
was your family life like when you were young?
You know, pretty normal. My parents were split
up, but they both remarried. I grew up living
primarily with my mom and my stepfather, and
they had a horse farm. And so I grew up, you
know, doing chores around the horse farm. I hated
horses because I had to pick up out of their
poop almost every day. So I did not have a good
relationship with them. I spent my summers weed
whacking, mowing the lawn, and stacking hay bales
and doing that kind of stuff. But besides that,
just hanging out with my friends and pretty normal
childhood. Sounds like we had a very similar
upbringing. My dad was a horse vet, veterinarian.
Oh, there you go. Yeah, I was mucking out stables
my whole childhood. We had like 12 of them. It
was brutal. Yeah, it is. People don't understand
hard work until you grow up on a farm. So did
you have any military in your family back then?
You know, my dad was drafted in Vietnam. He didn't
go to Vietnam and he just, you know, did his,
I think maybe it was two years or something that
he had to do. And then he got out and didn't
really talk about it much or anything. So I didn't
really have a whole lot of, you know, military
influence in my family or anything. Right. So
what did you want to do as a career when you
were in school? What was your aspiration then?
When I was in high school, I wanted to be a computer
game programmer because I liked playing video
games and I enjoyed doing computer science. And
that's what I went to college for originally.
But I didn't. I realized somewhere in my junior
year, I either wasn't good enough at it or I
wasn't studious enough at the time to make it
a viable. uh employment possibility right now
you talked about college and please correct me
if i'm wrong you went to virginia tech is that
correct yeah i went to uh virginia tech between
2003 and 2007 okay had you just graduated when
that awful shooting happened that was in my last
semester actually oh so you're actually still
there when that that happened yeah yeah so uh
that happened and then i graduated uh the next
month wow Okay, because I saw that and I kind
of Googled the dates and realized they aligned
almost perfectly. Yeah, you know, it didn't affect,
you know, I wasn't, you know, in the vicinity.
I was in my apartment off campus or anything,
so I wasn't anywhere near it. Yeah, it was awful.
One of the kind of through lines I talked to
some guests about, like I had Lieutenant Colonel
Dave Grossman on here and Tim Kennedy and some
of these other guys is these awful mass shootings
and how... uh, you know, how we prepare for them
now and how you try and be that kind of sheepdog
role, just in case something like that happens
again. Yeah. You know, I, I remember at the time
I, you know, I, I just, I had actually been to
bootcamp the previous summer. So I had been,
uh, drilling at my reserve unit. And I remember
at the time just feeling like shit because I
wasn't there. And maybe I thought maybe I could
have done something, but, uh, you know, so I
kind of felt like shit about that, but you know,
You're either there or you're not. It's a matter
of circumstance. Yeah. Well, I think that I heard
someone talk about this a little while ago. This
is two types of people, the people that wish
they were there and the people are thankful they
weren't there. And I think that Marines, firefighters,
police, they're the ones that wish they were
there. And I can definitely relate to that. So
scaling back to your childhood just for a moment,
were you an athlete back then? You know, I was
big into sports, playing baseball and soccer
growing up. Um, and up until I got to high school
and then I fell behind, uh, the other guys in,
in terms of, uh, growing. Cause I was a little
tiny kid. I was about 88 pounds, uh, in ninth
grade. And so, you know, my body just didn't
develop, um, as fast. And so I kind of moved
away. I couldn't make any of the teams I wanted
to make it. So, uh, I moved away from sports
and I got into the computer stuff. and I didn't
really get back into training, sports, and that
kind of stuff until I joined the Marine Corps
because I needed to be in shape for boot camp
and all that. Right. So when did you have that
pivotal moment where you decided that the military
was going to be where you'd pursue? It was in
my junior year at Virginia Tech. Like I said,
I had just realized that computer science probably
wasn't going to be in the cards, or I wasn't.
I guess what's more accurate was I wasn't willing
to put in the effort that was going to be required.
And I know that now as a mature adult, but at
the time I probably figured I just wasn't good
enough. And so I was kind of a lonely kid. I
was a loner and I was looking for something.
Just something. I needed something besides what
I was doing. And I felt like maybe I needed to
do something that was about more than just myself.
Because going to college and living all through
high school, I was kind of just worried about
myself. And maybe I figured I would flip the
script on that. And so a buddy of mine had just
joined the Marine Corps the year before. And
so I started researching it. And I read the book
Brotherhood of Heroes about the Battle of Peleliu.
And it was reading that book that, you know,
that clicked for me. You know, I knew what I
had to do after that. Okay. So you said you had
to get in shape for boot camp. What did you do
to prepare for that? So, you know, I just did
the PFT basically. The Marine Corps Physical
Fitness Test is a three -mile run. pull -ups,
as many pull -ups as you can, and then as many
sit -ups as you can in two minutes. So I just
made sure I was – I just started running. I started
doing pull -ups, and I started doing sit -ups
and push -ups and that kind of stuff because
I knew just from what the recruiters told me
and from what little amount of research I could
do that you needed to be good at that kind of
stuff. So besides that, just started working
on my Marine Corps knowledge that they were going
to teach me. And boot camp, you know, recruiters
help you out with that a lot. And, you know,
that's about it. Just started training, you know,
pretty, you know, the day after I enlisted. Okay.
And did you request to join the engineers or
was that something you were assigned? That was
a matter of circumstance because I joined the
reserves and the closest reserve unit or the
reserve unit that I was going to be joining because
I lived in Blacksburg, Virginia. was Bravo Company,
4th Combat Engineer Battalion out of Roanoke,
Virginia. That was the closest one to me, so
they just said, all right, well, this is going
to be your reserve unit. And the only billets
they have there are combat engineer billets.
So the decision was kind of made for me. But
I am looking back on it. I'm glad of that. I
love the job, and I'm glad that I got it. Right.
Yeah. It sounds like if you had the aspirations
for the engineering side with the computing,
that actually would probably be a good fit for
you mentally as well. It's kind of a total. I
didn't end up doing anything that was really
what you would consider mechanical engineering
or computer engineering or anything like that.
I was just dealing with explosives. But it requires
a little bit more cerebral person, I suppose.
Right. So what was the first tour that you saw?
So my first one was 2008, Albania, Iraq. My unit
was sending a volunteer platoon. And so I volunteered.
And yeah, so 2008. Okay. And then so you went
back to Afghanistan in 2010. Is that correct?
Yeah. So in 2008. Not much was going on in Iraq,
and I had gone over there hoping to, you know,
do some fighting, kill some bad guys, and we
didn't really get to do much of that. And so
it was kind of, I was proud of it. I think we
did a lot of good over there. We found a lot
of buried weapons caches, so I have no doubt
we made the city a lot safer just because of
that. So I was happy about that, but, you know,
I did want to do some fighting. and my reserve
unit was sending another volunteer platoon to
Afghanistan in 2010, and so I volunteered for
that right away. Okay, now what were the differences
you saw when you first got there between your
initial deployment in Iraq, apart from obviously
the combat, and Afghanistan? You know, so Iraq
has a lot more urban places. So it has its big
cities and then it has its smaller towns on the
outskirts of the big cities and they're all built
up and they have asphalt roads and buildings
and basically like any town here except with
different materials and a little bit less infrastructure.
But you get to Afghanistan and there's one –
They have their big cities, and then there's
one road that goes around the whole city called
the Ring Road. And then everything else is just
dirt and mud compounds just kind of spotted in
the distance and just spotted away from each
other and mountains. And it's a lot more kind
of wild west than Iraq was in terms of the geography.
Right. Okay, so can you describe, because obviously
a lot of my audience are going to be firefighter,
police, EMS, some of whom are veterans and obviously
know exactly what you're talking about. But for
the rest of us, just describe the role of the
Marine Combat Engineer. Yeah, so it is to say
the combat engineer actually describes three
different possibilities. First possibility is
you can work with an air wing. So you'll be doing
a lot of stuff with airports, runways, and that
kind of stuff. So you'll be doing whatever they
need you to do, bulk fuel and all sorts of stuff
like that. The other possibility would be the
construction side of it, building up forward
operating bases. I'm sure you've read Extreme
Ownership. that he worked with and how they would
have to be building bunkers and stuff like that
while under fire. And so that's the other aspect,
doing stuff like that, filling the sandbags and
building stuff. And the third aspect is what
I was doing, which is called the division side
engineer. And what we would do would be we would
attach to an infantry battalion. So it would
be one platoon for an infantry battalion. And
then we'd be broken down. One squad would go
with each company in a battalion. And then each
fire team in that squad would go with a platoon
in that company. Does that make sense? Yeah,
absolutely. So we would just basically just go
and be another infantry guy for the infantry
platoon squads. When they would go on a patrol,
we would go with them. When they would do a push,
we would go on their push. And we would be responsible
for demolitions. And we'd use them to either
create obstacles or defeat obstacles. So for
example, if there was a door that we needed to
breach, we would blow the door off the hinges
or we'd use a halogen tool or whatever. If there
were trees that needed to be destroyed or knocked
down so that we can have... Clear fields of fire
for a forward operating base. We'd blow up the
trees. So things like that. And then the other
aspect would be the finding of either buried
munitions or improvised explosive devices. And
that would be defeating obstacles so that the
IED would be classified as an obstacle. Okay,
now I'm assuming then that your role must have
been extremely important looking from the outside
in. in a war that seems to be fought primarily
with uh terrorist tactics like ieds so um i mean
were you constantly having to search for those
not constantly um i wouldn't even say it was
a daily event really uh so well the finding wasn't
daily so usually with in most patrols there would
be a time where I or another combat engineer
would have to check something out. So if we were
going to go into – on a patrol, there's lots
of wadis and bridges that you have to cross over.
So every time we would come to a point like that
where we would have to be – we'd be forced by
terrain to concentrate and use a route or a certain
road through an area. I would check that out.
So a bridge, you know, we'd have to go over the
bridge because we can't just swim across a river.
And so the Taliban might plant their IEDs close
to that bridge or on either side of that bridge.
So I would go check that out. Right. And whether
or not there was anything there, you know, it
varied, but I would be going out there and checking.
Okay. So then how, let me rephrase that. What
kind of equipment did you have and how effective
was that in finding these devices? The equipment
would have been a metal detector, a very sophisticated
metal detector. But almost more importantly than
that was just your own kind of instinct. So you
could get to a point where you could... Look
at a route that you're trying to take and you'd
be able to see Indicators, you know dirt that
didn't look right or stacks of rocks that might
be marking something or sunken dirt or discolored
dirt and things like that, so The most important
thing would be your instincts and then you would
go through there and you would use your metal
detector to try and find the little tiny bits
of metal that they would put in the IEDs. And
so really, it's about as effective a tool as
you can get, but it wasn't necessarily 100 %
because the dirt could have minerals in it that
would set off the metal detector, or you might
not have your sensitivity high enough. because
of that so you might turn your sensitivity lower
because you're just getting all sorts of false
readings and so you turn it lower and then you
know lo and behold there's an ied and you you
blow up and so it's about as effective as you
can get but it's not a it's not like you know
you walk out there and it just points at an ied
or something yeah exactly some sort of kind of
ground radar or something Okay. Well, then you
touched on that. So obviously the pivotal point
in your story was that day when you did find
an IED and it did explode. So are you able to
kind of tell us the story of that day and how
it unfolded? Yeah. So we were doing a push. Well,
basically what we would do was we started it.
We had just taken over from the British at Fob,
Inkerman and Seng in Afghanistan. And so when
I say push, basically what that means is we just.
Go into Taliban territory and start taking stuff
over. And if the Taliban wants to try and resist
us, we either kill them or they run away. And
so what we were doing was there would be belts
of IEDs or we'd have intelligence that were belts
of IEDs. And so we would launch these line charges,
big ass line charges that were about 1700 pounds
of C4. And there would be a line and we'd blow
those up. And then everybody would just kind
of walk through these IED belts on that line
of explosives because that's the only place that
we could guarantee that there was nothing because
we had blown up anything that might be there.
And then they would send this assault breacher
vehicle through with a mine rake and then just
rake up the ground in front of us. So we just
walked through there. And then once we got through
the IED belts, we would start taking over compounds
and setting them up in order for us to launch
further operations from those forward operating
bases. And so we'd do that for a day, and then
we'd set up the – we would clear, make sure there
was nothing in – there were booby traps or anything
in these compounds that we were going into. So
that's what me and other combat engineers would
do. Once we cleared it, then we would set up.
I used to start doing foot patrols and secure
the area, and then once we felt confident about
it and we were ready to go again, we would do
that same process again. And so on the second
time, we had the vehicle column that was clearing
the IED belts, and I was part of an infantry
squad that was kind of skirting along the outside
and protecting that vehicle column from ambushes.
And at some point during the day, we sat down
to take a break, and we stood back up, and the
point man stepped on an IED. And luckily, there
was no injury to him because the IED malfunctioned,
and so all that happened was the blasting cap
exploded, and it didn't set off the main charge,
which is what it's supposed to do. So the IED,
obviously, you have this little small blasting
cap that gets set off by... the heat in a wire
or an electric charge in a wire, and then that
blows up the main charge, which is usually a
big jug of homemade explosives. And so his didn't
work. And so now that becomes an area where I
need to come forward and guide us through because
the likelihood that there's going to be another
IED somewhere in there is about 100 % because
the Taliban, as everybody probably knows, they
like to put the primary and the secondary, tertiary.
IEDs so that anybody that came to rescue that
first guy would get hit as well so it would just
be like a chain reaction and so I went out to
guide us through that area and I missed the IED
that got me and it hit me and that resulted in
double above knee amputations Wow so what happened
right there and then where were you taken to
and what was the initial treatment for such a
horrendous injury? The initial treatment was
So, you know, I was unconscious for about 20
seconds. And so, you know, I wake up and, you
know, screaming. Other Marines, so in this particular
case, they couldn't just run over to me because,
like I said, there's primary, secondary, tertiary
possibility of IEDs being in the area. And so
they actually had to get another guy to clear
over to me. You know, while I'm sitting there
bleeding out. And I'm sure he kind of did it
in a quick fashion. But they couldn't just run
over to me. And so, you know, they're like, they're
telling me, you know, we're coming, we're coming.
And then they get there and they put the tourniquets
on. They give me the morphine. And then they
take me to a nearby tank. And then the tank meets
a helicopter. Helicopter takes me, takes me out
of there. And then five days later, I'm in Bethesda,
Maryland. Okay, so was Maryland the first stop
as far as your medical attention and that's where
you did the initial wound care? No, so they would
have taken me from site of injury and sang into,
I think, Camp Leatherneck. And there's a hospital
there. And so they would have done, you know,
debridements and any kind of alterations that
they needed to do. Revisions, they call them.
And then so they would do that, stabilize me,
and then they moved me to, I think, Bagram Air
Force Base, which is also in Afghanistan, and
do the same thing. And then put me on an aircraft
to Germany, Landstuhl, Germany. There's another
hospital, and they would do the same thing. And
then they flew me from Germany to Bethesda Naval
Hospital. Wow. That's a hell of a trip just to
get to that point. Obviously, you had the physical
injuries. At what point did they start giving
you the psychological help of what you've been
through as well? I spent the first five days
unconscious. Then the next seven days, I spent
high on morphine and painkillers, going in for
surgeries. That's just from my body getting used
to all the chemicals that was getting put into
it. You just kind of need that time to process
everything and get used to it. So that next week
was pretty much a loss. And then I get moved
up to the fifth floor. It probably took another
five or so days for me to really get my senses
totally cleared. And then that's when they start
bringing in. All the different doctors, the orthopedic
surgeons, the pain specialists, you know, whatever
doctor can possibly want to talk to you. That's
when they start bringing them in. And then they
also bring in the psychological doctors and they
basically give you, they ask you a bunch of questions.
They test how your mind is. And, you know, it
was determined I didn't have any kind of lasting
post -traumatic stress. um effects you know luckily
for me so i didn't really require much in in
terms of you know therapy or counseling or anything
like that all right so somehow yeah i mean that
that's amazing in itself but so what was your
self -talk you know that once once the morphine
had worn off and everything had kind of sunk
in um and you're you're lying in this bed with
this double amputation were you initially thinking
i'm gonna beat this and i'm gonna go and and
be better than i was before or you know was there
a period where where you just you know weren't
sure what you were gonna do i think you know
looking back on it so in with the power of hindsight
um i can say that i realized that my life's mission
was unchanged i still wanted to have a good life
a meaningful life and a life i could be proud
of And I realized that the more energy I spent
wishing something hadn't happened, the less energy
I would have to spend on what I could affect,
which is my therapy and recovery and that kind
of thing. So in hindsight I can say that, but
I think at the time I just kind of was on instinct,
kind of like a dog that you see running around
with three legs. He doesn't even really realize
that he should have four legs. And he just does
his thing. So I think I was kind of running on
that survival instinct and that kind of a thing.
So I wasn't really sitting there doing really
deep pondering as much as I was just acting.
Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. It's going to take a long time to
sink in. So when did that start? uh, they have
that metamorphosis where you start realizing
that you're going to have prosthesis and you're
going to have to learn, um, you know, how to
walk on those again. What, what was that journey
from the injury through to, um, standing, let's
say, for example, like. Yeah. So my initial thought
at site of injury was I assumed I was going to
be in wheelchair forever. I assumed I was going
to have to, you know, have somebody taking care
of me. uh, for the rest of my life. Um, I didn't,
yeah, I, and that, yeah, I didn't, I didn't even
know. I had no idea. That's just what I assumed.
Uh, obviously that was a very, uh, naive outlook,
uneducated. Um, but that's what I thought. And
then I get to the hospital and then the nurses
and the physical therapists come in and they
say, well, this is what it's going to be like
probably because they've done not the first double
above the amputee that's covered come through
there. So they know, so they, they can tell me
stories about people that have come through.
And, oh, this is what he's doing now and this
is how it went for him. And then also the guys
that had actually kind of graduated from my situation
to prosthetics would come back to Bethesda Hospital
and do visits and say, you know, this is what
my experience was. So I got a lot of intelligence
from them about what to expect. That made it
a whole lot easier to accept the situation, just
knowing what to expect. It made me a little bit
excited to heal up and get going with it because
I was ready to get on with it and just do what
I needed to do to get out of the hospital. So
with above knee amputation, obviously, I mean,
this is common sense, but so you don't have that
knee joint to work with at all. So I'm assuming
that that's even more challenging to have double
prosthesis, even standing and walking without
that stabilizing joint. Yeah. So, you know, less,
the more limbs you can have, the better. Longer
limb you can have, the better. So there's a major
difference between below the knee and above the
knee. Major difference between single and double.
And then there's a major difference between like
a long above knee amputation and a really short
above knee amputation. So, you know, all those
degrees. And then there's even, you know, the
double hip disarticulation where you can't even
wear, there's nothing. So there's a, you know,
big steps in between each of those where, you
know, you're losing vital parts that would make
your life a lot easier. Right. So what was the
first kind of milestone that you gave yourself
to achieve with this new prosthesis? You know,
the first milestone I had was actually just to
get out of my hospital bed into my wheelchair
by myself. And that was, you know, in the first
week or so, so that I could then, you know, go
wheel around the hospital. But with the prosthetic,
you know, they fit you with it. And then they
get it comfortable and then they're the first
thing that you the first milestone is taking
that first step you know you wheel your wheelchair
into Into the parallel bars and then you know
your therapist says all right go ahead and stand
up and then you use your arms to stand yourself
up and There you are all right now. You're standing
up That's the first time you've been able to
stand up and however long so and then you know
they go all right. We'll take the you know, take
the first step and you kind of naturally figure
out how to do it. Um, and then, so, but it's
not, it's, you know, it's a very, very ginger
short, you know, maybe one inch step, but you
know, that's your first step. And then you just
kind of keep building on that and building on
that. And then, uh, you know, just like any other
thing where you practice and practice and practice
and you get more comfortable and your body kind
of adapts to the different pressures and the.
different pains that are being put onto it and
adapts to that and then you get more mobile and
more mobile and they heighten your prosthetic
so you start out as a double above knee amputee
on basically prosthetic foot on the end of your
stump so you're really short and then you graduate
to a little bit taller as you get your balance
you get better and better and you can walk for
longer distances with you know and then you figure
out how to go off curbs you just kind of figure
out how to use these things in the way that you
need to and then uh after you get to a certain
level with the with the regular short uh no knee
joint legs they give you these legs that are
bionic and they have all sorts of sensors in
them and they have a knee joint so now you have
to learn relearn how to use that so and then
you advance to that and then kind of once you
learn master that then you can kind of move on
to relearning more advanced things like running
riding bikes and you know kind of getting back
to figuring out what kind of what i would call
hobbies okay now i had a guest dr bj miller i
don't know if you've heard of him before he's
a hospice doctor out in san francisco but he's
a triple amputee both legs and one arm okay and
uh he was kind of laughing because he said he
used to be tall and almost it felt like he was
too tall kind of lanky and after he had the accident
he chose shorter prostheses partly because as
you said it was easier to walk on but secondly
he he liked being a little bit shorter now did
you choose a certain height or were you at the
mercy of the prosthesis that they gave you a
little bit of both so i'm lucky enough that i'm
a left knee disarticulation so i have my entire
femur on my left leg And so what that means is
my left leg, when I have a prosthetic on there,
tends to be a little bit longer than a normal
leg might be because the bionic knee that you
have is a certain – it can only get so short.
And the foot that you put on there can only get
so short. So there's a minimum distance that
you have to have. And so for me – I actually
end up being a little bit taller because of that
minimum distance of the prosthetic leg. But I've
definitely heard about people getting shorter.
You can select that optimal height for yourself.
The taller you get, the harder it's going to
be to balance usually up to a certain point.
When I have my running legs on, I'm probably
six foot. four six foot five because i wanted
to try and maximize my stride length so you can
you can mess around with it you can experiment
and you can you can find that that optimal height
okay well talking about running then so i i know
in your bio you talk about relearning cycling
running and rowing which of those was first and
then you know what was that uh that experience
like going from zero back to where you were prior
to the explosion I think I learned to row first
because there was a little bit of an issue with
me relearning how to run and that they made us
do these bone density scans, and they wouldn't
let you get running prosthetics unless you had
a certain bone density. So it took me a couple
– it took me a little – a few weeks in order
to convince them to let me have the running legs.
Uh, so I think I learned to row, row first, uh,
out on the water. Um, and you know, took to that
pretty naturally and, uh, really enjoyed it.
Um, I would go out there maybe two, three times
a week and then my, my rowing coach would actually
come and I convinced the physical therapist to
let me bring my own rowing machine into the clinic,
uh, so that I could, uh, so I could train on
it. Um, and they were more than happy to do that.
And so he would come in a couple of days a week
and we would do a workout on the erg machine.
And then I learned to run and then bike after
that. And, you know, I was able to run after
my first, you know, on my first day, I was able
to take some running steps. So it's, it's kind
of natural. I had been in prosthetics so long,
the, the running technique kind of came naturally
to me, but what took a long time. uh, again,
just getting my body used to that motion and
the, uh, the pounding, uh, on my stumps that
the running, uh, caused. And so I would run maybe
800 meters, you know, at a time for, as that,
and that's done for the day, uh, in the beginning.
And then I would go home and my legs would just
be extremely sore. I mean, my right one would
even swell up. So I, one time I got stuck in
a parking lot because there was so swelled and
something was pushing on something on my leg
and it was just so painful. I couldn't walk and
I had to get carried into the, the, into my room
and stuff. So, you know, uh, that was a little
bit frustrating to have to, to go through that,
but like everything else, you know, I just kept
doing, kept at it and eventually, you know, I
can run as long as I wanted. Yeah, well, we'll
talk about that in a little while because you
didn't just run. I mean, you went above and beyond.
I ran more than I wanted. Yes, you did. All right,
but stick on rowing for a moment. So again, doing
just more than rowing a little bit. So you actually
set your eyes on the 2012 Paralympic Games. So
I read in the bio you moved to Florida to do
that, to train with your partner. So what was
that journey and whereabouts here in Florida
did you train? Yeah. So I realized that in order
to compete at the top level in the world, you
have to train every day. And so usually twice
a day, twice a day, every day. And so I knew
that in December to March in Washington, D .C.,
that the likelihood of me being with a row every
day was not very good. We needed to go to a place
where we could. So we moved ourselves to where
we needed to be. We found some coaches down in
Orlando, and we trained there for about five
months. Okay, because that's where I work. I
live in Ocala, and I work down in the fire department
that protects Disney in Orlando. Awesome. Yeah,
we trained out of Lake Nona. Oh, I know it well.
Yeah. Great little lake, very scenic. It was
perfect for rowing. Absolutely. All right, so
how did you guys fare in the 2012 Paralympics
after that training? So we trained for nine months,
and we got a bronze. That's amazing. Yeah, so
pretty happy with that, but we wanted to win,
so we weren't totally satisfied. Nevertheless,
proud of what we were able to accomplish. Absolutely.
Now, I meant to ask this as well as a side note.
Did you ever compete in the Invictus games? No,
I haven't. And the reason for that is because,
well, it's only been around, what, since 2014,
maybe? I think it is, yeah. And so, obviously,
I was training for rowing. And then... And then
I did my bike ride. So it's just worked out that
I wasn't able to go to any of the qualifying
events. But I do plan to do everything I can
to make it this year. Okay. Yeah. Because I think
this might be the last year from what I understand.
I think Prince Harry. I've heard that. I've heard
that. I don't know. I've never read it myself,
but I have heard it. Yeah. But what I was told
was, I guess, because we've pulled a lot of the
British forces out of the conflicts. They supposedly
are not having the military casualties that they
had before. That was the reason for them originally
doing it. So they're getting the same athletes
over and over again. I don't know if that's correct
or not. But I mean, so what? Yeah, exactly. Why
is that? Why is that bad? No, exactly. Well,
I'll have a word. I'll talk to him. Yeah. All
right. Well, you just mentioned the bike, right?
So let's talk about this. So I have driven across
America in a car and that was exhausting. But
you made a decision to go from Maine to California.
So can you tell me first how that idea spawned
and then how the hell you did it? So it took
me nine months about to relearn how to ride a
normal bicycle. And I decided to try and do that
because I enjoyed riding a bicycle. I was actually
starting to get into mountain biking before I
got hurt. So I wanted to maybe see if I could
keep doing that. And so I relearned how to ride
a bicycle. And on top of that, they said that
nobody that had come through Walter Reed had
ever relearned how to ride a bicycle as a double
above the amputee. So that gave me a little bit
of extra. It appealed to my frontier and pioneer
personality where I wanted to see if I could
figure something else that nobody else had before.
And it took a lot of time, and so I wanted to
do something with it. And but, you know, I already
decided I was going to do the Paralympics, so
I had to kind of put anything on the back burner.
And then after I retired from rowing. I decided
I would ride my bike across the country because
I wanted to. I wanted to have an effect on on
the veteran population in that because I saw
I kept seeing, you know, all these movies and
stuff about, you know, all they were ever about
was about how veterans come home with post -traumatic
stress disorder. And I wanted to provide an alternative
possibility and an alternative story. And so
I set out to create my own and ride across the
country. Okay, so can you tell me the charities
that you were supporting for that? Because I
noticed there were several written down. Yeah,
so the three I supported on that one were Semper
Fi Fund, the Coalition to Salute America's Heroes,
and Ride to Recovery. And they're all just, you
know, wounded veteran charities. that have their
own unique way of helping veterans recover, get
back on their feet, and find their new way of
contributing to their country. Okay, and you
said it took nine months to get across the country.
Is that what you said? It took nine months to
relearn how to ride the bike, and then the whole
ride took about six months, 5 ,180 miles. Oh,
my goodness. Now, did you experience injuries
along the way from such an amazing ride? You
know, I didn't. Soreness, to be sure, but no
injuries. The closest I came to injury would
have been in Missouri. I did this during the
winter. So in Missouri, there was some black
ice and I fell and landed pretty hard. But luckily,
you know, just a little bit of a sore back for
the next couple of days. Nothing, no injuries.
So, you know, and all the cars I was riding around,
I really lucked out. Yeah, that's the people
you got to watch out for. Yeah. All right. So
you finished that. Was the marathon idea following
that? Was there anything in between? So after
that, I tried to make the Paralympics again for
triathlon. And so the triathlon was entering
into the Paralympics in 2016. And so I figured
I would try and do that. I figured that would
be the sport that I was most set up for just
because of the bike ride. And sadly I was not
able to qualify a lot because I needed more time
simply to break into their system of ranking
and qualifying. It takes a really long time to
do that. But mostly because I was racing on a
regular bicycle. Most double above knee amputees
would be racing with hand cycles and push wheelchairs.
But I decided I was stubborn and I wanted to
ride my bike. And so I ended up racing against
single above -knee amputees and people that had
all their limbs but had cerebral palsy, I think.
And so they just had such an advantage over me
on the bike that I was never able to get fast
enough to catch up to them. They would just blow
me out of the water, and I would reel them back
in on the run, but I would never be able to catch
all the way up. Okay. Well, the other portion
we haven't discussed yet was swimming. So what
kind of prosthesis do you use for the swimming
portion? They do not allow any prosthesis in
the swimming portion for my category. And so
what I would do, I would have – so the legs that
I wore for the running and biking would have
an inner socket that would fit to my leg. using
this silicone sleeve and then in order to transition
quickly i would have the outer socket with the
actual prosthetic attachment to it uh would be
separate and so i would attach that with a pin
to the inner socket so i could switch between
legs really quickly so it'd just be a matter
of taking one off and putting one back on instead
of going through all this other stuff that you
usually have to do so i would wear the inner
socket they would allow that um and then so i
would swim in that take my wetsuit off and then
put my running legs on run into transition switch
to my bike legs uh walk out of transition because
i couldn't run in my bike legs and then ride
my bike walk back into transition switch legs
and then go out on the run so my transitions
actually uh really hurt me as well because i
wasn't able to uh the single above the amputees
could kind of hop uh along pretty quickly and
i just had to you know walk on my bike legs yeah
that's just areas that you don't think of with
with um you know a non -amputee or non -paralympic
type race or olympic event is all these little
uh you know nuances that would give someone a
huge advantage in areas yeah it was a pretty
good system that i had you know for a double
above the amputee was a really good system but
uh you know just my injury or my level of my
disability uh just put me at that slight bit
of disadvantage that I had to try and overcome,
but I wasn't able to. Okay, so with the swimming
then, I just want to get this clear in my head.
So you had no prosthesis at all, so were you
basically just swimming with your arms at that
point? Yeah, well, so swimming is actually mostly
trunk, and so you kind of grab the water with
your arm and anchor off of it, and then you use
your trunk to... kind of uh power yourself past
your arm and so yeah i wasn't kicking so i was
just doing all uh arm and trunk yeah that sounds
exhausting in itself all right so then going
back to the marathons then so your most recent
venture this is where i came across you on social
media um you did 31 marathons in 31 days so firstly
is there a significance to the number 31 And
then secondly, how the hell did you prepare for
that? The number was picked. So I wanted to do,
I definitely wanted to do marathons because so
many people identify with marathons and everybody
in the world knows that the marathon is kind
of that bucket list item. And it's kind of the,
it's the tough race that most people identify
with. You know, obviously there's longer ones,
but you know. Everybody knows what a marathon
is pretty much and everybody knows it's tough.
So I wanted to do marathons and I wanted to do
something that would kind of make people's brains
explode. And so I figured I would do just a ton
of back -to -back marathons. And so when I was
trying to pick the number, we have – everybody
knows the number 22 or 20 is more accurate now.
That is associated with veteran suicide. And
so I thought about doing 22 in a row. But the
problem I saw with that was I kind of figured
that was too – it wasn't enough. It wasn't enough
marathons because I thought I would get going
for the first 10 days and then it would be over
by the time I kind of got some momentum. And
so I wanted to do it longer. And then I thought,
well, what if I just do 50 because that's a big
even number. And I kind of figured that might
actually be a little bit too long. because I
thought I would get going and then people would
kind of lose interest. It's like, well, is he,
you know, that guy still doing that? And so I
kind of figured, well, I'll just go in between
and I'll do a full month of marathons. And so
the longest month is 31. Okay. And where did
you, let me rephrase that. Was there any pattern
that you chose to do these marathons as far as
geographically? Not really. So I just, I started
in London. because I wanted to bring in that
kind of allied forces. They have the same issues
over there as we do over here, and we didn't
fight together, so we didn't fight alone overseas,
so we shouldn't fight alone back here either.
So I started in London, and then I knew I wanted
to finish in Washington, D .C. on Veterans Day,
so I just kind of set it up so that... I had
to fly from London, so I started on the East
Coast. Then I just made sure that each city that
I went to, I would be able to make it after having
run and then driven there. Most of the cities
were about six, seven hours apart. The longest
one was 14 hours apart. That's pretty much how
I patterned. I went counterclockwise in order
to hopefully get the northern states. northern
cities in before it got too cold and then the
southern cities in after it got super hot so
right and then the the uh was the underlying
thing again to raise awareness for veterans coming
home yeah you know it's just that continuation
of that same thing is so my first my bike ride
i called rob jones journey and then this is was
rob jones journey month of marathon so this is
just a continuation uh of what i started back
then and just adding to that story a veteran
that went overseas and you know found a new way
to contribute to america keep fighting for fellow
veterans and just kind of try and hopefully showing
uh veterans that may be struggling you know that
it is possible to to have a traumatic experience
and get past it and actually use it to become
better right so then so that being said what
do you think is lacking in the process when our
veterans come home and what do you see as a solution
for that Oh man, that's a tough one. I think
what may happen is we kind of get allowed to
see ourselves as victims and stagnate and maybe
even become a little spoiled. So I'll use myself
as an example. So I – if I could go back and
change anything about my recovery, I would have
gotten out of my wheelchair earlier and just
thrown it in a trash can or something and just
totally gotten rid of it because I definitely
would have – I ended up having a reliance on
that wheelchair. I was allowing myself to rely
on it. And so I kind of got stuck in that groove
of – wanting to use the wheelchair everywhere
I went, and it was kind of scary to commit to
walking everywhere. And so I just fell back on
the wheelchair. Nobody really pushed me to get
rid of the wheelchair. It was a very supportive
environment, and they wanted everybody to kind
of go at their own pace, but sometimes people
do need a little bit of a... a push in some,
in some directions. And, you know, we were all,
sometimes people would be allowed just to not
even go to therapy and just, you know, say, screw
it. Um, and so, you know, and everybody in the,
in the area was, was catering to us. And, and
so, you know, that could, that kind of allowed
me to feel, I think I got a little bit spoiled
by that and I kind of expected certain things.
And, you know, I don't think that that was great.
And so I kind of had to re -correct for that
after I left the military. And then you see,
I just read that book Tribe by Sebastian Younger.
Yeah, I had him on when I started the podcast
and I had him on just the other day as well for
a second time. Amazing. Oh, awesome. Yeah, it
was a really good book. And I liked a lot of
the stuff that it said in it, but it had this
one section about the wounded veterans, and it
talked about how the government should cure wounded
veterans, how society can cure wounded veterans.
But it didn't say anything about how the wounded
veteran can cure themselves. So it took the personal
responsibility of the veteran out of it. Out
of the equation. And so I kind of think there's
a little bit of a pervading atmosphere of that,
that the veteran isn't responsible for their
own recovery and that it should be the government
or it should be the military, it should be the
VA that gives them a magic pill or gives them
a magic method that automatically cures them
or gives them enough money to. find the this
magic thing that cures them when really it's
them taking personal responsibility for it um
and so i definitely think that it's it's important
that all these all these organizations and all
and you know society wants to help wounded veterans
that is definitely uh that's that's should be
a requirement But we just have to remember that
we are all warriors and we are responsible for
that personally. Does that make sense? No, it
does. And you walk the walk exactly. And I think
that's what we're seeing because PTSD in first
responders has been suppressed incredibly. The
whole being able to even accept it. It's like
the military can accept it and that's fine, but
we're different. It's still being soft if you
admit that you... struggling and it's now finally
starting to gain some traction but now what you're
seeing is on the fringes you've still got the
ridiculous notion that it doesn't exist but then
on the other side you've almost got you can see
this just kind of rumblings of well you know
we'll get this to go through and then we can
retire and never do anything again and that's
completely wrong as well and just like you've
proven physically with your physical injuries
and and really let's be honest with your mental
injuries as well you've you've come come out
a lot stronger from that too is the the middle
ground is you get hurt absolutely you're going
to need some time and and and medical treatment
whatever it is to heal your mental injury to
heal your physical injury but the goal at the
end of it is to come back stronger and you absolutely
walk the walk and i think that that that other
fringe is is what we're talking about there is
that you know that small amount of people that
see it as an opportunity just to to not address
it instead of coming back stronger and learning
from it. Yeah. You know, I'm not, and I'm, I'm
certainly not saying that, um, if you need help,
it's, you shouldn't, you know, try and get help,
but you definitely should. Um, uh, you need to
do whatever you need to do in order to heal.
That is my point. And so if that involves, uh,
so for me, it was pretty clear cut. I needed
to go into therapy and get prosthetic legs and
get myself stronger and practice with the prosthetic
legs and do all that stuff if i you know if i
didn't do all that stuff i'm i would never have
learned how to use i would just be sitting around
in a wheelchair in a bed all day i still had
to go out and do all that stuff and just wanting
to be able to walk on my legs uh wasn't going
to get me there i had to go out and do the work
and so it's a little bit different with these
psychological injuries because it's not exactly
clear what you're supposed to do to recover from
that. I mean, nobody really knows for sure. And
so it's a lot harder to figure that out and actually
do it. But you can't just sit around and wait
for the government to figure it out. You can't
sit around and wait for the VA to figure it out.
You have to go out and just try everything you
can. Uh, and do the, do research yourself and
just try everything, um, in order to make that
happen. So you are ultimately responsible. You
know, if I went into the clinic and I said, I
don't really feel like walking today, I'm just
going to go home. The therapist would probably
say, well, okay, you know, all right. And no,
it would have no effect on their. They would
go home to their families at night and they would
have their normal life. It didn't affect them.
Whereas I'm the one that has to live with that
every single day for the rest of my life. So
I needed to take the personal responsibility.
Yeah, and that's what we're seeing sadly in our
civilian population as well. they're going into
these doctors offices demanding statins and and
you know painkillers instead of taking the time
and investing in themselves in reversing you
know whatever disease process they've started
through exercise through nutrition and taking
ownership of their own health yeah there's uh
it's yes it's a that that sentiment is definitely
universal it's a there seems to be a a sentiment
now that uh people are expecting You know, they
say we have so many homeless people in this country.
Somebody should do something about that. You
know, it's like, well, we all recognize that
there's a problem, but nobody's actually willing
to take that problem, you know, take the responsibility
for solving it. Well, somebody should do it.
You know, not me, but somebody. Yeah, no, exactly.
And also, I think the other issue was. And that's
tarring an entire spectrum of people with the
same brush, everyone from the people that are
jumping in the Mercedes at the end of the day
and going back to their mansion, which we hear
these horror stories all the way through to the
veterans or whoever with mental health issues
that truly need the help to get off the streets
and back on their feet again. Yeah, and I just
want to get it out there that the only possibility
isn't the veteran that comes home. With severe
psychological injuries. I want to get that whole
I'm not saying that we should ignore that or
that isn't something that happens It certainly
is and we need to address that and we need to
do everything we can for those people but it
is not the only possibility and And so I just
want both sides of those, you know Both sides
of that coin to be out there so that people can
just have a better understanding of you know
What it's like to be a wounded veteran. Yeah
Well, I mean, I tell you right now from, again,
the outside looking in, I'm a fireman, I'm not
a soldier, and I'm a viewer on social media,
but that is definitely the message that I'm getting
from you and your other fellow veterans that
are out there inspiring people and not using
whatever injury, mental or physical, as an excuse.
Now, obviously, it's a horrendous injury. We're
not taking that away. But to me, that gives us
even more respect that someone is not only, doing
extremely well physically or inspiring people
with a with a a body that's uninjured but to
go through that heal from the trauma and then
come back and and instead of uh create almost
a victim mentality but use that as an inspiration
to stop other people from going through similar
things or inspire other uh injured people to
be an athlete to get out there and have a full
life i mean it's incredible and i and my hat's
off to you yeah well you know that's what i hope
uh Hope to get out there. But, you know, I also
have to say at the same time, I've never struggled
with post -traumatic stress. So I don't have
firsthand knowledge of it. And this is kind of
my theory. And so having never struggled with
it, it's easy for me to say a lot of this stuff.
And so, you know, I realize that there's a lot
more to it than just deciding to do something.
Yeah. Well, I think, though, to counter that
just for a moment, Tim Kennedy, about a year
ago now, It was just a post on Facebook, but
it was amazing with the fact that he is aware
of the trauma, but the way he got over it was
getting up every day and fulfilling his life
and doing good in the world, trying to be that
sheepdog. And that's what kept him with that
strong mentality. And I think that that's maybe
the underlying reason why you haven't. had the
ptsd you know the actual disorder side is you've
taken that stress and and you've turned it around
and not only overcome it physically and using
exercise but also giving yourself a mission to
give back which is probably the complete polar
opposite of of the the disorder side of ptsd
yeah so you know maybe um you know i've never
never experienced it but uh hopefully this will
be it's kind of like you know this is an idea
for you to try maybe uh Yeah, so that's a good
point. Okay, well then I guess the last question
before we do some short wrap -up questions would
be do you have another physical feat that you
are planning? Not right now. I don't have it
because, you know, the month of marathons was
like kind of a perfect storm of, you know, running
in all these different cities that were, you
know, get so many eyeballs on it and then. the
marathon is something that everybody identifies
with and it was uh you know i think it was just
about the right uh length of time spent and you
know it was it was something that i you know
people did not expect me to be very fast because
i'm a double above knee amputee so people would
not expect that i'd be able to actually run uh
very fast at all and i kind of you know dispelled
that method so it was kind of a perfect storm
and all that uh In that regard. And so I have
to really take my time. I don't want to do something
just to do it. Just to say that I did something.
I want to do something that interests me and
can really have that maximum effect. And so I
really need to take a lot of time in order to
figure out what that might be. And so right now
I'm toying with the idea of maybe doing some
like 100 mile. ruck marches or something so nothing
that would take a month or anything but maybe
something that might take a you know a few days
and then i could do that maybe several times
throughout the year i don't know but uh um nothing
that i'm committing to at the moment okay and
once i commit to it that means i'm doing it and
so you don't want to commit so i will not commit
to it until uh until i'm absolutely sure all
right well one other thing as well so you learn
How to walk, how to run, how to row, how to cycle,
how to swim. Is there anything that you either
did before the injury or you've never done in
your life that you, aside from any challenge
or fundraiser, just something that you have wanted
to try or get back to that you haven't yet since
you got hurt? Nothing that I'm really missing
a whole lot. I need to try. I used to play racquetball
in college. I really enjoyed that. And I'm sure
I could again. I just haven't taken the time
to go in and try and do that. I wouldn't mind
doing some snowboarding or skiing. I've never
done that before really. I've done it once before
when I was able -bodied. So I wouldn't mind just
trying that and seeing what that's like. Mountain
biking, I would like to try. So the problem for
me in mountain biking is I can't get on a bike
going uphill at a certain steepness. It would
be very tricky and risky for me to try and go
mountain biking because if I didn't make it up
a hill, then I'm kind of screwed. So I'll just
leave it at those three. So there's a few things,
but nothing that I'm really dying to get back
to. Right. Yeah, snowboarding sounds like an
awesome one because you can wipe out on a board
and still be pretty good. Yeah, exactly. And,
you know, like getting in the gym was probably
would if I hadn't been able to do that, then
that would be eating at me. But, you know, I
was able to, you know, figure out ways to that.
I could still be able to lift weights like I
was. I can't do everything. I can't do squats
or anything like that. But I I figured out how
to do deadlifts when I was in the clinic. I had
my physical therapist put a belt around my waist
and kind of hold my lower half up. and then so
that my upper half got so basically i would do
a straight leg deadlift and i kind of evolved
that into i'll just tie myself off to a squat
rack or a pole and then i'll do deadlifts and
when i was rowing i could do 300 pounds so you
know i was able to get a pretty decent uh lift
yeah that is a decent lift yeah i think i was
telling uh bj miller the doctor i mentioned before
it seems like um This sounds like a weird thing
to say, a great time to be an amputee, but that
adaptive world, especially in the CrossFit world,
you're seeing so many certification programs
now and so many creative ways of working around
some sort of amputee. amputation or or injury
whereas these athletes something like quadruple
um i'm assuming from birth amputees or or uh
you know no limbs on on the upper or lower body
and they're still able to do cleans and these
amazing movements so yeah it's just a matter
of taking the time to figure it out man uh you
just have to want to want to try and do it and
then you just experiment see what works see what
doesn't work and there's actually a uh there's
a gym down in texas that is entirely dedicated
to disabled athletes. All they do is train disabled
athletes, which is actually an idea I had when
I was in the hospital, and I'm glad that somebody
was able to do it. I wish I could remember the
name. But yeah, it's down in Texas, and they're
doing that. All they do is train disabled athletes.
That's phenomenal. Have you visited it yourself?
No, I want to, and I've been emailing him, and
we're in talks, so I will go down there. It's
called Adaptive Training Foundation. So he's
a former football player, and he just got together
with somebody, and it's awesome. So I do plan
on going down there at some point. Fantastic.
All right. Well, you've been very, very generous
with your time. I've got a couple of wrap -up
questions and then I'll let you get on with your
day. The first one I always ask people, is there
a book that you recommend to people? It can be
about anything. Man, there'd be so many books.
My favorite book from a fiction perspective is
Gates of Fire. That'd probably be the one that
I would recommend. Let me think. Nonfiction.
I do like Jocko's book for nonfiction in terms
of the mental mindset. Extreme ownership. Yeah.
Well, all three of them, I guess, would probably
be good. But I think those would probably be
my two, just for that mental aspect. Okay. And
I know you were on his show. I haven't had a
chance to listen to that yet. It's on my queue
to listen to on the podcast because I love his
stuff too. Oh, yeah, it was a lot of fun. That
was a really cool experience. And as is this.
All right, the next question. Is there a guest
that you would recommend come on this podcast
to talk to the police, fire, EMS of the world?
Let me think. I'm going to have to think about
that one, man. I guess a lot of people stumped.
I should probably email them ahead of time. Well,
there's just so many people. What kind of a guest
would you need? Because I have a lot of people.
If you need somebody to talk about training for
fires or to talk about stuff like I'm talking
about. I would say just someone unique who's
inspired you that made you realize something
you'd never thought about before. That's kind
of the angle I like. Yeah, yeah. I would recommend
Bobby Henline because he is a guy – and it might
– dealing with fires, he was burned over 30 percent
of his – or he was third -degree burns over a
large proportion of his body in Iraq. And now
he does stand -up comedy. And so I would recommend
him. And so you might have some firefighters
that – have some severe burns. I don't know.
Yeah, we do. Actually, my very first guest, Mitch
Dreyer, was severely burned. He actually was
an amputee as well. He lost one of his arms in
the burn. Yeah. Fantastic. All right. Yeah, I
could put you guys in touch if you want. Please,
please do. I'd love that. And then the last one
before we talk about where we can find you online
is what do you do to decompress when you are
not either cycling across the country or doing
multiple marathons? You know, I like to read
a book. or, yeah, read books, listen to podcasts.
I'm getting into hunting, so I'll take that up
as a hobby. I like, you know, that's, you know,
it's fun, you know, you get some meat, and then,
you know, you get to hang out with your friends
for the day, and there's a lot of camaraderie
that comes along with that. So, yeah, just that
kind of stuff. Brilliant. And then the very last
thing then, so where can people listening find
you, and are there any sites that, you were looking
for funding for as far as charities uh my website
is robjonesjourney .com and any kind of if they
do want to donate to what i've done uh you can
still do that on my website you just go to the
main page and it'll be there uh and there'll
be all sorts of information about the charities
that i raise money for um and the oh you know
we didn't mention the third one i actually changed
my third one so this uh My marathon challenge
was Semper Fi fun coolest to salute America's
heroes and the tunnel to towers foundation Which
I'm you probably might have heard of absolutely
yes, so I raised money for them on this month
of marathons And uh have you ever done have you
thought about doing their tower climb in New
York um I have yet I there's multiple things
that I want to do and that's one of them the
tunnels of towers and the climb Okay, so yeah,
well I'm gonna be doing that this year, so you
should come up and join my I always make a team
So you should come up and be on my team this
year if you can make it. In September? The run
is September. I think the tower climb is usually
June. Okay, let's make that work. I will say
publicly now. Let's do it. I'm going to hold
you to it. There we go. Now you've got me stuck.
If you pull out, I'm going to publicly shame
you on Twitter. All right. Well, again, thank
you so much. I really appreciate it. I know I
just reached out randomly online and you immediately
said yes. So I'm so glad we're able to have this
conversation. I know it's going to be A, inspiring
to the first responders out there, but B, again,
make people think about injuries and challenges
and are they really going to alter your life
or are you just going to be able to overcome
them just like you've shown us you can. So thank
you so much for talking to us today. Thanks a
lot, man. I appreciate you having me on. And
I hope people just are able to use this and figure
out exactly what you just said.