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of the Behind the Shield podcast. Welcome to
the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my
name is James Geering, and this week I have an
incredibly powerful and important episode for
you. Stephanie Waugh is a firefighter and the
wife of Marcus Waugh, the firefighter strongman
and my guest on episode 954. In this conversation,
we discuss not only being part of a firefighter
family as a spouse, but ultimately her joining
the fire service and now having both partners
in this profession. So we unpack a host of topics
from her strength and conditioning routine, trying
to parent around a firefighter schedule, the
impact of mandatory overtime on parenting, and
so much more. Now, before we get to this incredible
conversation, as I say every week, please just
take a moment. Go to whichever app you listen
to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback,
and leave a rating. Every single five -star rating
truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making
it easier for others to find. And this is a free
library of well over 1100 episodes now. So all
I ask in return is that you help share these
incredible men and women's stories so I can get
them to every single person on planet Earth who
needs to hear them. So with that being said,
I introduce to you... Stephanie Waugh. Enjoy.
Well, Stephanie, I want to start by saying two
things. Firstly, thank you to your husband, my
previous guest, Marcus, for making this connection.
And secondly, to welcome you onto the Behind
the Shield podcast today. Thank you. And happy
Veterans Day to you. Thank you so much. Thank
you. Yeah, I'm happy to. To all the veterans,
I never served in that capacity. But yeah, I
mean, it's something I think that we've got to
remind ourselves is that the sacrifices that
all these generations before us made. The way
we honor them is to avoid war and not just get
pulled into another one. Agreed. I hope that
lesson is strong today. Yes. All right. Well,
very first question, where on planet Earth are
we finding you this afternoon? I am at home in
Delta, Ohio, and it's cold. It got cold. It's
snow. We got about four inches of snow recently.
Oh, wow. We're even cold here, which for Florida
is not going to impress you with the numbers,
but we were like basically 31 degrees last night,
which is a little nippy for us. So, but I love
it though. It's once in a while, I guess it's
cold here. Well, I'd like to start at the very
beginning of your journey. So tell me where you
were born and tell me a little bit about your
family dynamic, what your parents did, how many
siblings? Um, so I. was born in pontiac michigan
and my i have quite a big family extended family
um my parents were split my mom um she did um
salon work she did hair at first but then she
became a stay -at -home mom and i have um Three
siblings on that side, my mom and my stepdad.
I have two brothers and a sister. And then my
dad, he did industrial work most of his life.
And he is married to my stepmom. I have a brother
on that side as well. So in all, three brothers,
one sister. The big family then. Yes. What kind
of dynamic was there after the divorce? Were
you guys able to retain a good relationship?
Obviously, some people that disappear off the
face of the earth, some, you know, exes are best
friends with each other. Where were they on that
scale? Yeah, they they actually didn't get along.
It was quite a. rough dynamic, I would say, between
the parents. And, you know, we made it through.
We grew up okay. It was okay in the household.
My dad and my stepmom, you know, they got along
real well. And that kind of also showed me, you
know, what a happy home should be like. And then
same with my mom and my stepdad on that side.
So it was best for them just not to be together.
I think that's okay. I think there's Dr. Shefali,
I think her name is, is a relationship expert
that, you know, I like some of the things that
she talks about. But yeah, there's that shame
and guilt about, you know, marriage ending, air
quotes, you know, failing, if you like. And I
think that's rubbish. You know, if you did find
yourself with another person and as you evolve
and you have children and you find yourselves
growing apart, I think it's much healthier to
then. go your separate ways, do whatever's best
for the children collectively. But yeah, if that
person is not the right fit for you, then you're
going to be so much happier. And then the children
are going to grow up in a much happier household
if each of those finds the right fit as far as
the partner. Yeah, exactly. I agree. They were
both very young when they had me. My mom's 17,
my dad 19. So they started out young and just...
kind of learned where they were going to go in
life to be happy. Absolutely. I've always said
relationships are like food. You know, you have
honey, which is the childhood sweethearts that
die holding hands at 99 years old. You have the
gas station sushi, which is a one night stand.
And then there's all kinds of different ones
in between, you know, and if yours has, you know,
run its course, then that's okay. That was just,
you know, where it was supposed to end. Yeah.
We're going to obviously talk about the physical
fitness side and the strongman, all those kind
of areas in a little bit. When you were a young
girl, what were you playing and doing as far
as sports and exercise? Well, my dad put me in
almost everything when I was like young, young,
elementary to middle school. I did. I started
out in dance. I, you know, dabbled in a little
bit of soccer, softball, basketball, getting
into high school. I strictly danced on our dance
team. Then coming out of high school, didn't
do too much for a few years. I actually. Had
my daughter young as well. I was 19 when I had
my daughter. But then afterward, I worked. After
I had her, I worked at a gym and I got very into
working out. And then that led me into powerlifting
and strongman competitively. So that's where
I was at with sports. What were you dreaming
of becoming as far as career aspirations when
you were still in high school? You know, I never,
I never knew. I could never really figure out.
I had like little ideas that after I had my daughter,
I wanted to be an OB. I always wanted to help
someone or help people. Also being in a broken
family, I wanted to go into social work. I did
not join the fire academy until 20. 2017, when
I was 27, I think was my first fire academy.
I mean, I had been through, I've done two fire
academies. So my first one was around that time,
2017. And yeah, that's, I think my whole life
dynamic kind of led me into firefighting, wanting
to help people and then also being physically
capable. I was like, yeah, I can do this. So.
What professions did you do prior to that, though?
Once you left school, what were some of the hats
that you wore? I did a little bit of everything.
I did some waitressing, some catering, worked
in retail a little bit, and worked at numerous
gyms and childcare as well within the gyms. And
how did the initial introduction to gyms lead
you to the world of powerlifting and strongman?
I'm really meeting people. One of the trainers
at the gym, the first gym I worked at, he was
training other people competitively and powerlifting.
And I kind of just always had this source or
this feeling of wanting. to see how strong I
could be. So I was always just trying to lift
as much weight as I could. And then he introduced
me into powerlifting, got into that competitively.
And then after I'm trying to think of like when
I think I was in powerlifting for about seven
years, and then I was introduced into strongman,
and that had a lot more variety within the lifting,
which made it a little more fun. And then I started
doing that, trying to think of how many years
ago, maybe more like 10 years ago now. I'm looking
at you through the camera, but obviously it's
hard to judge your size. What's your kind of
build as a woman usually? On a normal basis,
I sit at like 115 pounds. I'm kind of tiny. I've
actually found that not so helpful when you're
competing because a lot of the girls in that
weight class are so much bigger and stronger
than I am. So I do, I've kind of taken a break
from. competitive strongman, but I still train
it to keep fit for the job just because it transitions
so well. And I actually just started, I didn't
start, I signed up for jujitsu because I was
thinking that might be more my path as far as
my smaller stature. Well, I think this is the
thing, like when we get into obviously the fire
service. My son is just a bit taller than me
now, which he absolutely loves. But he's built
like me. He's still very slim. And he keeps talking
about, well, I want to look like this guy. I
want to look like this guy. And I'm like, this
is what you got to understand is we're given
the body that we're given. So the ultimate thing
is to be as strong and as fit as you can within
that body, not trying to chase someone else's
physique. Yeah, I had to learn that. So what
was your mindset then? Obviously, you're more
of a petite build compared to, you know, some
of the like Christian Rhodes who have had on
the show. What was that path as far as debunking
the initial prejudices that one would think of
as, you know, women can't insert, you know, bias
here into being successful in powerlifting and
then strongman? Oh, man, I always say, I mean,
I think we can always do. anything that we want
to do is it just depends on how much commitment
you want to put toward it trying to stay at a
higher weight was just a lot of eating it was
like you know forceful eating so it kind of got
tiring and then you got kids maybe and you know
school or whatever else you got going on so it
does take a lot of time and commitment um like
I said I always think we can do what we want
as long as we're willing to put the time and
commitment into it. It's just, I think I realized
for myself, I just wanted to balance out a few
more things. So I scaled back on being in the
gym every day and then trying to eat three meals
before noon, you know, so just learning, learning
my body and What would be best for staying fit
and physical was something that I kind of had
to realize once I decided, okay, this isn't really
for me, but something will be. That's something
that I've realized the older I've got as well.
I never really got pulled into the, you know,
eat a lot, try and get bigger. When you look
at the elite performers, so Marcus is a good
example, trying to win strongman competitions.
Now you're really chasing that top kind of 5
% of performance. And therefore, yes, this is
what you need to do as an athlete to eke out
that 5%. But I think the other 90, 95 % of us
kind of get that twisted where that's what we're
supposed to do and we're not. If you just want
to be a good firefighter, you don't need to be
having 12 meals a day and waking up. eating at
2 a .m and 5 a .m like the bodybuilders do yes
and you know if you take a step back firstly
look at the availability of food from our ancestors
no one would be able to eat that way so it's
not an evolutionary it doesn't make any sense
and then again if you stop eating that way and
your body reverts back to because i'm as you
can see i'm slim built to reverts back to its
natural size it's trying to tell you something
it doesn't want to be And in my case, you know,
190, 200 pounds. It wants to be 170, 175. Oh,
exactly. Exactly. So talk to me about what kind
of led you into the fire service. What even put
that idea in your head in the first place? When
I was, I'm kind of like, I moved back in with
my parents at, let me think, I was probably 25
-ish. And I'm looking through our... a community
college catalog and they had a fire academy and
then um also it was actually oh I'm sorry no
no first it was the newspaper first it was the
newspaper I saw a newspaper and one of the nearby
cities had hired their first full -time female
firefighter and then I think that's when it kind
of sparked an interest in me and I was like yes
I I think I could do this. This is what I can
do. And so that's when I went ahead and I was
like looking through the catalog. They had the
fire Academy signed up for it. Ended up loving
it. Learned you had to be EMT. Most, most departments
require you to be empty. So I went through that
and then I worked, I started in private ambulance
for about four years before I went into another
fire Academy and got on a fire department. So
you had to repeat the fire academy because you
weren't hired within a parameter? What was the
reason you repeated it? The first one I went
through wasn't, it was through the community
college. But the second one I went through was
actually the academy that the department required
us to go through. It was their own academy. Like
some of the inner cities, most of the inner city
ones have, I believe. Gotcha. Okay. How competitive
was it to be a firefighter when you were testing?
For the department I'm on now, it was very competitive.
There was thousands and thousands of applicants
at the time. And I want to say there was probably
about six women in my class too, which is great.
They're hiring more and more women these days,
which I think is amazing. But the first one I
went through, It was just more of applying, having
all your ducks in a row, and then I think it
was fairly simple to get in after the application.
We didn't have to do a physical test in the beginning.
The second one I went through, like I said, way
more competitive, thousands of applicants, and
then also having to do the physical agility before.
getting on i actually failed my first physical
agility because i wasn't training very well for
it uh and then i went back did it a second time
passed it thank goodness i was so happy i was
gonna ask you that so you've got a background
of some of the strength sports you know what
what did you find or how did you find they served
you and then where were the deficiencies um The
strength, I mean, being strong for my size, I
think was definitely a strength, but, um, endurance
was definitely where I think I found myself,
uh, needing some more, just having to carry all
the stuff for longer periods of time or, um,
uh, you know, hitting, hitting the tire with
the hammer, uh, really took me out, um, because
it just. like I said, the endurance of it. I
was like, I need to build this up. Didn't have
much of that just because a lot of, a lot of
what's in lifting is well, at least for, I would
say power lifting and maybe some strong man lifts,
but it's more of a very quick, you know, a deadlift
just real quick. You don't get so much endurance
when you're training that you gain the strength,
but I needed to definitely mix those together
for the, for passing. So what did you change
to make sure that you improve that area? Weight
vests, running stair climbers, keeping weight
on top of me, whether it was carrying something
or having a weight vest on or flipping a huge
tire for just like a longer distance, I would
say. Now, you mentioned before about the challenges
of being a single parent. Obviously, I've talked
about this on here before myself. That was the
big thing that made me leave my second last apartment
was that being told as a single parent that I
was going to get mandatory over and over and
over again. So now you have a daughter. What
was the impact on that when you started doing
the shift work? So it was a big transition for
me because here's my thing. I moved. My daughter
and I lived in Michigan for all of our lives.
And what I did is I had met my husband and he
was already on a fire department, which was hiring
at the time. And that was two hours away from
where I lived. So I kind of had to make this
big choice. I'll tell you a lot. At first, it
was I felt a little guilty because it's like,
why are you moving away from her? But at the
same time, for me, I think I felt inside like
I'm doing this for our life, for our stability,
because. Um, finding my husband, someone who
was a great role model and loving and caring
for to me and my daughter, and then also getting
a full -time job, um, which I had not had beforehand.
I mean, um, even when I was working private ambulance,
it wasn't full -time. It was, uh, contingent
part -time and I, I would sign up like. I was
I would sign up for like full time hours, but
I was still contingent on paper. So just striving
for the stability and the home life was a big
was a big factor in moving. So what I had to
do was do I had to move and then we kind of went
through a court system, the whole court thing
with the parenting time I had to. really sacrificed
my parenting time, obviously, when it came to
that. But she, looking back now, I mean, I wouldn't
have made a different decision. It's, we're both.
I can see the happiness that she has now and
the fulfillment, the joy and the comfortability
she's had in this life that we've created. So
when we were getting our schedules, that's what
it was. When we were getting our schedules before
we hit the line, I'm like, I don't know how I'm
going to do this as I'm going through this parenting
time and custody thing, just going through a
transition because I had moved away from her.
It's funny because there was just this one moment
in time I was like, I might look into something
different just because it was actually right
after I had my son. I said, I might look into
something different because the scheduling was
taking a toll on me. And my daughter said, but
I don't want you to stop being a firefighter.
And so I know that she knows we do this for them,
even having to sacrifice that time with the schedule.
It is tough. I mean, when I went through my divorce,
I was already on shift. I'd been a firefighter
for several years by that point. And luckily,
the dynamic of the way the marriage dissolved,
there wasn't a big fight from the other side.
So I was able to put in writing that when I'm
on shift, he's with her. When I'm off shift,
he's with me, which basically ends up being 50
-50. And there wasn't. Any pushback, thank goodness.
So I was very fortunate compared to most people
in the fire service that have gone through this
where, you know, I kind of in a way didn't lose
any time with him. But, you know, I see the impact
of, you know, whether it's a residence issue,
as you mentioned, like two hours away to see
your child or. You know, God forbid some of my
firefighter friends that, you know, they didn't
get to see him. The mother held them from their
child or vice versa, the father, whatever the
dynamic was. And it's something that people don't
think about when you're already working shifts,
when you're already exhausted, when you're already
getting mandatory, and then you're trying to
juggle these commitments to see your child. I
mean, that's a very, very important part of the
conversation. And again, goes to why I talk about
the work week all the time. is that when these
people go home, that might be the only 24 -hour
period they get to see their child that week.
And then they get told that they can't go home
because, you know, mandatory or whatever. So
this is a really important topic that people
need to be thinking about is, you know, sometimes
people are navigating an already challenging
schedule to see their children if they are divorced
parents. And this can be woefully impacted by,
you know, understaffing because of mismanagement.
And that is how it kind of happened with me,
too. We we have a Kelly day and we were like
choosing we had to choose our Kelly days. But
I mean, they kind of told us, like, you're going
to get this day, you're going to get that day.
And then when I was looking at the schedule,
they gave me my Kelly day and. It was actually
a surprise to me because it wasn't the day that
they had said, oh, you're going to get Tuesday,
you're going to get Wednesday or whatever. And
I kind of in my mind already had like, OK, this
is how it's going to work if I get this day or
this day. And I'll use this Kelly day to have
my time with my daughter. And so when it kind
of when they switched it up and I saw that I
had like this day, I just asked, I'm like, you
know, if. The Tuesday is easier. I'm willing
to take the Tuesday. And then they were like,
how dare you question? And I'm like, oh, you
know, in the beginning, you don't want to say
it. You don't want to say anything in the beginning
because you are just like bottom of the totem
pole, as they say. But it it ended up working
out OK. We I just made it work the way it. the
way the schedule was, um, using Kelly weeks,
Kelly days, how, uh, to also go and have time
with her. What about, you said you had a son.
Is that, is that the two of you now have a son?
Yep. Uh, my husband and I have a son now he'll
be three in January. Okay. And you guys work
the same fire department. Yes. Okay. So that's
another interesting dynamic. So you've got your
daughter and you have to do the, you know, obviously
the visits with her. What about navigating parenting
of a very young child when both of you are on
shift in the same fire department? That's quite
a learning experience for us. I'll tell you when
they're so young, when they're just newborn,
I would say that that first year it was so rough
just being tired all the time and kind of doing
it by yourself. Our schedule is 24 on 48 offs
and we're on separate schedules because of dogs
and baby. So he works and then I work and then
we have a day off. And even those solo days,
you're kind of you're dragging. Sometimes you're
just wishing the other one was home helping with
you. But and then you're going to work the next
day and staying up all night. The. What we've
found is, so when we, I said he goes to work
and then I go to work. What we found is if we
switch that, because I usually had to drop him
the baby off in the mornings at the in -laws,
but my husband, he has less, he has less to get
ready in the morning. I think it's a guy thing,
you know? So I think we found like little things
like that. it's going to be easier for you to
take this shift and me to take this shift and
you kind of do the morning drop -offs and I'm
better at getting stuff ready for the day when
we have stuff planned, getting, you know, packed
up and whatever we need to do to get ready for
the day. I'm kind of better at that. So I took
on that in a way. With our shifts switching,
it's just little things that we kind of had to
learn throughout the first year, year and a half
on how it's going to be easiest on both of us.
But even now, we're he it works out OK. We. I
still am kind of trying to. Work out in my head,
like, what can we do to where we're both working,
but maybe not these shifts. I mean, we've considered
like hiring a nanny and going on the same shift
for the 24 hours. But that's, you know, that's
a lot of money. And you're like, let's just,
I don't even know. It'll be easier once he's
in school. In school for. uh just once he starts
kindergarten or preschool oh i thought you're
talking about your husband okay the child oh
no i'm sorry the baby uh their schedules will
be easier once he's in school just not having
to do the whole thing all day by yourself and
then go to work or whatever go to the gym to
stay fit or whatever else you got to do errands
you know yeah absolutely i'd be interested to
get your take on this one of the things that
came up aside from the 24 72 When we work 24
-hour shifts, you think of that as a dial. You
could technically spin whenever you want. You
start this time and you end 24 hours later. And
someone, I think it was Sarah Jenke, really brought
this to my attention initially. Why do we start
at 7 or 7 .30 or 8, whatever the start time is?
you know, why? Because so many of us that travel
a long way, I usually drove about 70 miles each
way to the station. So I was getting up at, you
know, five in the morning, 4 .45 to get to the
station early to make sure that I relieve, you
know, who I'm relieving before they get hit with
a late call. And it just, it's lunacy. Because
if you look at sleep deprivation, we arrive sleep
deprived on that very first shift, because most
of us are getting up really early. And so The
solution is, well, why not start at 11 a .m.
or 12 noon? So now you get to wake up, have breakfast
with your child if you need to go to daycare
or obviously do the switch on shift, whatever
it is. Now everyone's awake. Everyone's ready
to get on with their day. And then conversely,
whoever was on shift, if they had a brutal night,
then they get to get a couple of extra hours
sleep before they come home and their mom or
dad or whatever it is. What is your perception
of your unique family dynamic if shift change
was, say, 11 a .m. instead of early? Oh, man,
I mean, that would be I feel like that would
be definitely beneficial, especially because
we actually my daughter's going to be moving
in with us soon. So we're going to be having
and then my son's going to be three and, you
know, in the next year or so going on in the
pre -K or kindergarten. So, I mean, having. thinking
about that having that would be so beneficial
just being able to get the kids breakfast and
spend some time with them in the morning do the
morning routine and then you know then get off
to work and even so in the mornings at work not
having to wake up so early maybe just to go home.
You know what I mean? Maybe you won't get the
call at 5 or 6 a .m. Sometimes that happens,
but if it came in later, maybe you get a little
extra sleep that morning before you go home and
then have to pick up your kids and have nighttime
routine. That would be definitely, I think, beneficial.
I like that idea. We've kind of, within our department,
I mean, we don't do that, but I know it's been
thrown around, like maybe even at specific stations
having different start times, but we'll see where
that goes. Well, the thing is, it's a completely
free solution. It doesn't cost anyone anything.
But when I reflected, once they kind of brought
that up and I started thinking about my career,
I did 2448, no Kelly for most of my career. And
that meant that I only spent, one out of every
three mornings with my family for 14 years. Because
the first night, obviously I'm awake, the first
morning, excuse me, I'm awake before anyone else
is. So I kind of sneak out and leave them. The
second day, by the time I get back from that
70 mile drive, they're already at work or school
anyway. And then a third day was the only morning
that I actually woke up next to my wife and then
sat down and had breakfast with my son. And so
just for $0, turn that into two out of three.
yeah and give that person who was on shift a
couple of hours so when they come home they're
not on edge because you know they got toned out
at 7 a .m you know all called wake up you know
to do what to there's no no reason whatsoever
to wake those people up so to just make it 11
or 12 you know now they can sleep in get a couple
of hours the people that are coming on shifts
got to spend that morning with their loved ones
and then go to work like it just seems like such
a great And then coupled with the 2472, that
would be life changing, I think, for a lot of
people in the fire service. Absolutely. I agree.
That would be wonderful. So what about the actual
profession itself? You know, as you kind of enter
and you see now behind the curtain of some of
the areas that you're protecting, what were some
of the aha moments or some of the career calls
that you had? So when, you know, when I got into,
when I hit the line and got into the fire service,
it was really exciting at first. And then like
very slowly, but also soon, you kind of just
realize the toll it takes on an individual. I
always, I kind of always say like, or you always
hear. someone say oh yeah he used to be so happy
he used to be uh so alive and ready for the day
used to be great at this and great at that and
now they're grumpy like I feel like I've heard
like something along those lines from so many
people when you're meeting everyone as a new
person on the job and they're like um you know
like I said they're oh he used to be so funny
he used to be this and he used to be that and
I'm like well why aren't they anymore and so
you kind of take a look and you're like because
we're having to do this this and this and I think
I found um I think I found that it's maybe in
my personal opinion it's a little bit of uneducated
being uneducated in our health of ourselves and
honestly, sometimes, uh, sleep, how important
sleep is to our bodies. Um, and I, I don't know,
I don't know why I've always, um, I don't, I
don't even know where I learned it or how I've
learned it, but maybe just from personal experience,
but, um, sleep is. It releases nutrients into
our bodies when we're sleeping to keep us healthy.
We, we can't be sleep deprived and then go help
others, uh, with our full potential, you know?
Um, so I, I feel like I kinda just seen, seen
that, uh, I feel, yeah. What about that? So we've
got the sleep deprivation, which we'll dive into
in a second. What other areas were adding to
the stresses? Because I mean, this is the sad
fact when you hear about people and they're like,
oh God, they're such a pain in the ass. They're
so salty, whatever it is. Or they're getting
into trouble now. They got a drinking problem.
I always say, well, what were they like when
you hired them? Were they turds at the front
door? In which case that was a bad hire and shame
on you. But, you know, because that person would
not not taking away the empathy for that person,
but that person needs to do the work before they
come to the job if they're already, you know,
salty as a probie. But that's not the case. As
you said, most people like, oh, well, they were
amazing until well then newsflash. You think
maybe it's the job, you know, call me crazy.
I'm no scientist, but if they used to be really
nice and now they're not nice. Then, you know,
what do you think the common denominator is?
So sleep deprivation, huge part of it. But what
culturally, you know, all these other areas,
what are some other things? Because you had quite
a fresh set of eyes coming in. Were you starting
to see we're adding to this compounding effect
of beating down on men and women in uniform?
Oh, man. Mental health and our call volume. And
then also. I don't know how, maybe I'll get to
it, but at some, at some point after I had my
son, um, I think it was all, I think it was all
just honestly something that maybe was personal
that happened to me within the job. Um, I went
back, I didn't, we had, uh, let me think we had
eight weeks we're given eight weeks for maternity
at 70 % of our pay but even that for me because
I didn't have because I was new and didn't have
a ton of vacation time built up and then on top
of that I was very sick throughout my whole pregnancy.
So I lost, I even went off payroll because I
lost all my, I didn't lose, but I used all my
sick time. Any comp time I had and vacation time,
I had to go through it all and then had to go
off payroll. So going back to work, I kind of
had to go back at that eight weeks. And I didn't,
I realized, I mean, I thought it was going to
be enough time for me. I was excited to get back
on the line, but then I realized it wasn't. So
breastfeeding was one of the things I've, I had
to read studies. I went, when I went back to
the line, I actually ended up getting lots of
fires. Almost every two hours I was getting a
fire, maybe two fires every tour. And I was breastfeeding
at the time as well. So I. was looking up studies
on breastfeeding and obviously live firefighting.
And the studies that I found said that you had
to, it would. It recommended that you dump every
three days. And I'm like, well, we work every
three days. And I kind of felt that decision
of stopping breastfeeding was forced upon me.
And then I was like, well, this is not right.
So sometimes I think it's like little personal
things that kind of happened to me throughout
going through being new on a department and then
also. starting a fam, starting growing my family,
I should say, um, kind of showed me that happens
not only, you know, with women in maternity,
but everywhere else too. We're kind of maybe
don't have all the resources that we, I think
we probably could have to benefit our health.
And also, I mean, I always think too, like this,
this job isn't necessarily like, why can't it
be more family oriented? Like I get, it's a special
job and I get, we sign up to do this special
thing, helping people and we, and we find that
we're good at it, but then we forget about taking
care of ourselves in the midst of that. You just
sparked something in my mind. When you think
about, especially at the Scandinavian countries
where they get a lot of maternity leave and paternity
leave, just culturally for the entire nation,
there's a lot more time spent with that child
when they were so young and so impressionable
before the parents go back to the workforce.
I think we're one of the worst when it comes
to time, if I'm not mistaken. And if you think
about then the ripple effect of, everything from
the ill health of our children i mean you know
the the obesity that we're seeing now type 2
diabetes and all those areas through to you know
the mental health challenges that we're seeing
I guarantee you that some of that is probably
related to the fact that a lot of these parents
are being forced back into work soon after these
children are born. And so you've almost got like,
you know, you've got the lack of skin on skin
contact. You've got probably a subconscious sense
of abandonment when a tiny child is now not with
either parent because they're off, you know,
on shift or whatever it is. It's not even the
fire service conversation as much as a culturally
American conversation. You know, they might think
that they're saving money, you know, at the front
end with, oh, we'll just go back to work and,
you know, get wages coming in again. But it'd
be really interesting to look at these Scandinavian
countries and say, you know, how much does that
extra time with that child early on actually
save, you know, the country down the road, making
these kids healthier and evolving into healthier
adults. And I guarantee you there's probably
a linear relationship. Yeah, I agree. I'll tell
you too, um, just having our son, um, the, it's
funny with our schedules being opposite and then
trying to be on the same page, um, raising him.
Uh, he can't, so like my husband, uh, my son
kind of has like a, a stability with their, um,
A structure with my husband and then he kind
of has like the structure with me at home. And
then when we're both home, we're kind of always
running around. So that's that day. But but I
compare it. It's I kind of make myself. Frustrated
sometimes because I compare it to he's with my
in -laws a lot. My in -laws are both retired
and at home and they. are always together with
them. And I'm just like, they, I, they almost
have a better structure for our son than we do,
you know, just being at home with him, um, and,
uh, being with him every day. I mean, they're
with him almost every day for some hours a day,
but, uh, yeah, I find that, um, kind of rough
to work around. being different schedules and
trying to raise him on the same page. Well, I
think this is it. I mean, I know my son's, you
know, mother, my son's mother's mother, excuse
me, my son's grandmother, she was having to work
a lot to pay the bills to support her, but that
way she wasn't physically in the house as much
as, you know, a lot of parents would hope they
would. And you look at, you know, how we're supposed
to be. In ancient times, they say it takes a
village because that's exactly where we all were.
Unless we were going off on a hunt or going to
war, all the family units would be there still.
So it's not saying that we all just stop working
and spend 18 years with our children, but how
far have we got from perfect? And can we at least
move the needle back towards getting these households
intact so these children do have more normalcy
and feel like they're part of an intact... home
unit rather than as my son had to bounce from
house to house to house to house, which I hated,
absolutely hated. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah.
I would say I kind of, like I said, I kind of
find that a little frustrating here and there
when he has to spend so much time at the in -laws,
but at the same time, like he's very loved and
cared for over there. So we're very lucky to
have it, but it's kind of like what I want for
our family as well, but it's hard to do with
our jobs and the lack of family orient that our
job has. If you were queen for a day, because
i think it's the ultimate superpower is to be
humble enough to say the way we're doing it may
not be the right way and therefore explore better
ways of doing this and look around the world
and see different you know models that may be
more successful or in this country more successful
what changes would you put in place to allow
more family time to allow you know these parents
to actually have the time off to to be with their
children or like you said even through pregnancy
what are some of the things now that you've got
with this you know more unique lens that you
know maybe would be a good idea for the future
of the fire service a lot of it is like things
i've heard probably on your podcast because once
i started listening to your podcast i was like
This is it. Like 24 -72 would be great or even
changing the start times of our schedule. Maternity
and paternity leave. I wish there was a little
bit more. I feel a little entitled saying that,
to be honest. But you're queen for a day. You
get to do whatever you want. Remember that. So
forget about what people think. I mean, if you
could imagine what would be the right thing to
do. Yeah, I would I would I would wish for a
little more maternity and paternity leave as
well. Being on the same department for us, they
made us split the eight weeks if we wanted to
or like we didn't have to. But if I took the
whole eight weeks, then my husband wasn't going
to have any of it. So they also made us do that,
both working for the city that we're working
for. So. Like I said, the 24 -72, the start times,
we actually also put in what we call a float
position in our job, which has actually been
very helpful. And I think it's been very beneficial
for some people because what you can do is kind
of bid over to this float position and you work
a 40 -hour week, but you're also working, you're
kind of covering training and stuff at the stations.
So this rig is going to go out training. OK,
we have the floats that are able to cover during
business hour days. And then it allowed a lot
of people to coach their son's baseball team
for a season. And then once that was over, they
could go back to the line schedule. It is I think
it is just like little implements like that,
that. I think we could probably do better on.
Well, hearing I've had, you know. A few interviews
of people where both partners were working for
the fire service and in discussions, the 24 -72,
just putting that extra 24 hours in between.
Because we always talk about we got two days
off, but we haven't. You work from midnight till
shift change. So that wasn't a day off. That
was eight hours. That was a full day's work.
So you've only got that one day, which is day
two, and then you're back to work again. So putting
another 24 in, now you've given these parents
two actual days off in between. Even in your
case, let's say, you know, you work A shift and
Marcus works B. Now you've got C and D then to
actually be a lot more present. And if it's fully
staffed and, you know, then reverse a recruitment
crisis because people really want to come back
into the fire service now that we fix the things
that are broken, i .e. the horrendous work weeks
and understaffing. Now it's just 24 -72. So mandatory,
you know, has gone away. Voluntary will come
up once in a while. You know, neither you do
A and B or you do A and C, you know, now you
get to change it up and maybe have a day between,
but now that's a 42 hour work week. So again,
asking parents to work around a 24, you know,
48, that's, you wouldn't ask a bank teller or
someone in a grocery store, okay, you're going
to have to figure your way around, you know,
arguably basically a 60 hour work week. You know,
that's just, people will be like, no, I'm not
doing that. But the people that call 911 and
we respond, the ones that are going to be going
to your family's worst day are working these
crazy hours. And I think that in itself is a
conversation. But the impact on families and
these parents are having to juggle, you know,
child care and just simply being home, just not
feeling guilty about not being there. This is
a really important conversation. And the 24 -72
is at least a big, big step towards. not only
healthy firefighters, but healthy firefighter
families. Yeah, exactly. I think that is one
of the things I found within our home is the
guilt when you come home and you're like, okay,
I have to sleep. And so you're still not really
here being able to spend that time with your
family. Or even if you don't, if you choose not
to sleep when you need it. You're kind of not
yourself. You're not able to give yourself to
your family in the aspect that they need or you
want to. Absolutely. Well, before we kind of
go to some closing questions, are there any other
areas that you want to discuss? I'm glad we touched
on the scheduling and also. Becoming, growing
a family or having a family within the fire service,
you know, ways we wish or would like to try and
help make it more family oriented and learning
about our health. No, exactly. I think this is
the point. One of the things I've made comments
on a lot recently is, and so many of us heard
this, especially my generation when we came in
the fire services, you wait. In 10 years, you'll
be on your third marriage and have an alcohol
problem. That was a running joke in police and
fire and EMS. And again, can you imagine if you
were joining an accounting firm? And someone
said that to you, you just turn on your heels
and walk out the door again. You know, if you,
again, grocery store, you know, retail store,
whatever, like, well, this sounds awful. I'm
not going to work here. Thank you for letting
me know ahead of time. I'm not interested. So
the fact that this is, you know, accepted and
there's so many, you know, so many great parents
that I know that were head over and heels in
love with the people that they were with when
I first, you know, when they first joined the
fire service and I watched. Their marriages get
destroyed. In some cases, their relationship
with their children get destroyed. This is a
really, really important conversation because
it's not a reflection of the job. You can go
for 24 hours and give yourself to this profession
and be fit and be mentally ready to respond to
people's worst days. But you should also then
be able to go home and keep your family intact
and be present at their games and their recitals
and recharge so you're ready to do the same thing.
you know, 72 hours later. So it's not a weakness.
It's not a deficiency. It's actually the opposite.
You know, we have to control the things that
we know are broken in the fire service and joking
about alcoholism and divorces. There's nothing
funny about that at all. That's just a glaring
red flag that we need to fix something. Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. I think one of the things I heard
in the beginning also going back to, oh, he used
to be. or she used to be this and she used to
be that, but they're not anymore. One of those
very similar sayings I had heard, they all say,
give it a few years, give it a few years, and
you'll be the same. And in the beginning, I'm
like, no way. But then you give it a few years
and you're like, okay, I see what they're saying.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think I always refer
it to people's favorite athletes. you know, with
some of these, these, you know, LeBron or whoever
that's, that's got longevity in their career.
Can you imagine the locker room, them telling,
Oh, give it a few years. You'll be broken. You'll
be, no, they're doing the opposite. They're trying
to keep you going for a few more years. So you
can be an asset to whatever team you are. So
I think give it a few years should be replied
to. You'll be even better than you are now. Well,
fantastic. I'll sign up for that. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, give it a few years, they'll beat you down,
which I was told a lot because I was always trying
to, you know, force change. It's like, no, you
know, but what a horrendously toxic atmosphere
that is that you go in all bright eyed and aggressive
and wanting to be the best version of yourself
in the fire and the EMS world. And you're told,
don't worry, they'll beat you down, give it a
few years. Like that couldn't be worse, in my
opinion. Yeah, I'd really like to change that,
especially bringing in new people. Just like
I'm sure many other departments across the country
and world having recruitment issues. And, you
know, I think if that's just even one of the
things we changed, it might help out a little.
Absolutely. Well, there's that blockbuster story.
You know, if you look in the business world,
they use as a case study, if you refuse to acknowledge
that you need to change, then you end up like
they did in the history books. So this is where
we're at in the fire service. There is no need
for any more studies or data. The recruitment
shows what we're doing wrong. So go to the state
of Florida, look at the 10 departments that are
now switching to 2472, speak to Pasco County,
speak to the city of Gainesville, speak to Destin
and ask them, especially Boynton Beach, it's
been a couple of years now, ask them what they've
done to turn it around. And there's the solution.
All you need to do now is apply it to your own
department. Yes. All right. Well, as I said,
closing questions. The first one I love to ask,
is there a book or are there books that you love
to recommend? It can be related to our discussion
today or completely unrelated. Okay, I do. Actually,
I just read this one because we are going through
an autism diagnosis with my son. but I read this
one book and it's about our gut health. All of
our health starts in our gut. And I think we
should all be more educated on it. So it's kind
of gut and psychology syndrome. I grabbed it
just. It's a great read for education and just,
it doesn't even have to, you know, not doesn't
even have to deal with the diagnosis, but I think
learning about our gut health is. One of the
things we should all be getting educated on.
Absolutely. Well, two things. I know we're just
talking to someone in my gym about this the other
day. Vaginal birth, the child gets exposed to
all the bacteria that it needs. And even supposedly
the compression from a natural birth alters the
bone structure and all those things. So then
you have the C -Sec epidemic that we have now
where people are scheduling their births rather
than it just being used when it should be, when
it's going to be dangerous for the baby if it's
naturally born. But then you look at the data
on the children of firefighters, and we have
a higher rate of developmental diseases, all
kinds of things, pediatric cancers. So going
back to the conversation, not just of exposure
to carcinogens, but the shift work, that has
an impact even on our children. So these are
all conversations that we need to have on all
these other areas. How can we improve the overall
health of our child and try and... minimize the
chance of any kind of challenges that child would
have. Yes, absolutely. All right. What about
films, documentary, TV, any of those that you
love? Oh, I can't think of anything off the top
of my head. I haven't been into TV as much lately,
to be honest. Sometimes I have like a show to
zone out, nothing too important. But let me think.
I just watched that. all her fault on Peacock.
And that was super interesting. I loved that
one. Good mystery. And then now let's just we'll
stick with that because I yeah, I think TV and
I have been not so close in the past few years,
just too busy with everything else, but in also
trying to read a bit more. But yeah. Brilliant.
Absolutely. Yeah, I think this is the thing that
the screen is amazing. And there's some phenomenal
television out there. But I think that So many
of us struggle to read again, even just from
fatigue, but there's so much wisdom in books
that I try and carve out time every morning now
to read before I even look at a screen. So I
think you're doing the right thing, not the wrong
thing. Thanks. All right. Well, the next question,
is there a person that you recommend to come
on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first
responders, military and associated professions
of the world? I mean, I feel like we have I have
a few. I do have a friend, Samantha Hamilton.
She actually competed. She does it for fun. Her
and her husband both on a fire department. Where
are they? Colorado or they're down south. She
does a lot of traveling and trying to integrate
health and routine into retired firefighters.
And she's also on the, like I said, on the job
as well. I think she's somebody that would be
a great choice to have on here. Fantastic. Yeah,
our retirees. the forgotten generation. And it's
so sad because we look at the stats and they
say line of duty deaths were, you know, whatever,
100 this year. And it's like, no, not even close.
Because, you know, in the military, you'd have
the VA that would count all of our veterans.
That's what we're serving. And now we're out
of service and still being tracked. And it's
not perfect system, but it gives you an idea
of the ripple effect of the health issues. I
mean, look at the Hunter 7. foundation you know
tracking all the cancers from the burn pits and
all these other things you know most of those
are veterans they're not active duty in the fire
service we have nothing so once you walk out
the back door for the last time you cease to
exist you're not you're not a statistic anymore
so i guarantee you that if you saw the stats
of the mental and physical you know health issues
and diseases and deaths it would be staggering
it would be you know Tens, if not hundreds of
times of what we're told are line of duty deaths
of people dying prematurely from their service.
So that's a great topic that we need to talk
more about is how do we get people to transition
into retirement as healthily as possible? Yes,
she would be a great one for that. Brilliant.
All right. Well, then the last question before
we make sure everyone knows where to find you,
what do you do to decompress? The gym is one
of the big things. And then, like I said, I've
been picking up reading when I can. I'm reading
all, I feel like a little bit of everything right
now, just on the history of our government, our
country, and then our health and also the Bible.
I've been trying to just pick up 10, 20 minutes
of little, of everything every day. Brilliant.
Yeah, I think our government needs to read the
Bible again, remind themselves what Christianity
is supposed to look like. That's a whole other
conversation. Exactly. All right. Well, with
that being said, for people listening, where
are the best places to find you online? I have
Instagram. I have Facebook, both Stephanie Waugh.
You can probably find my husband out there before
you find me, and then I'll be on his page. But
yeah, I have Instagram, Facebook. My husband
and I are actually going to be starting, we're
starting to work on hopefully a podcast of our
own because we did start a nonprofit raising
money for veterans and first responder mental
health. And we're going to hopefully grow that
into a podcast of our own, trying to bridge the
gap in between our first responders and citizens.
Tell me more about the nonprofit. Oh, uh, I mean,
we started it, uh, right after my husband won
the world's strongest firefighter. He kind of
wanted to bring that, um, more locally and, uh,
get more people involved locally. And, uh, so
we started that the first year we raised step
five, five to 7 ,000, I think about, and then
we had our second year this year. Um, we actually
paired with our Jeep fest here in our, in Toledo
and, um, we raise 12 ,000 this year. So, and
now we have our own, um, we're going to have
our own spot within the Jeep fest every year
annually. Um, and actually have a couple other
exciting things planned for that. Um, just right
now we're running strongman events for it, raising
the money. Um, and it's becoming a great success
for us so uh we're excited about it brilliant
and with the the funds that you raise what are
you doing as far as helping the the veteran population
so we actually so far we've actually just donated
to other non -profits veterans for veterans and
then um career for veterans i think it was um
we have a Our friend Bill Kiefer, he has his
own nonprofit helping veterans integrate into,
again, society after retiring. And so that we
just been donating the money to those nonprofits
as well. Another one that we donated to was,
like I said, or Veterans for Veterans is what
it was. And what they do is. They are working
on having kind of almost like an emergency for
mental health locally right now. Some people,
like a team of people who you can call that will
come show up at your house when you're going
through a mental health crisis. So just making
those connections is what we're trying to do.
Brilliant. Well, I want to thank you so much.
It's been a really interesting conversation.
You've got a very unique, you know, family dynamic
between the two of you. And I think this is a
conversation that we need to sustain is, you
know, how can we make it? healthy across the
board, whether you're a single young firefighter
or whether you're, you know, a divorcee or, you
know, you're a nuclear family, but, you know,
you're still trying to maintain that time at
home. I think all these areas need to be discussed
and, you know, having the both of you on on your
own episodes given a really unique kind of glimpse
into that. So I want to thank you so much for
being so generous with your time and coming on
the Behind the Shield podcast today. Thank you
so much for having me on.