WEBVTT

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This episode is sponsored by Transcend, a veteran

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And you can find that on jamesgearing .com under

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808 with the founder, Ernie Colling. or go to

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transcendcompany .com. Welcome to the Behind

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the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James

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Geering, and this week it is my absolute honor

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to welcome on the show sports nutritionist Dr.

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Nathan Jenkins. Now, in this conversation, we

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discuss a host of topics, from his journey into

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the world of exercise physiology, studying disease

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as a vascular cell biologist, obesity, diabetes,

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the importance of a comprehensive blood panel,

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gut biome, supplementation, rapid health optimization,

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and so much more. Now, before we get to this

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incredible conversation, as I say every week,

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please just take a moment. Go to whichever app

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you listen to this on, subscribe to the show,

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leave feedback, and leave a rating. Every single

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five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast,

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therefore making it easier for others to find.

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And this is a free library of well over 1 ,100

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episodes now. So all I ask in return is that

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you help share these incredible men and women's

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stories so I can get them to every single person

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on planet Earth who needs to hear them. Now,

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one more quick side note. My account got shut

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down for the second time in a year on Instagram

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for posting kindness, compassion, and community.

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They don't give a reason. I have no idea what

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happened, but here we are again starting at zero.

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So if you are following this podcast on Instagram,

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it is now at BehindTheShield911 .3 .0. So with

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that being said, welcome onto the show. Dr. Nathan

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Jenkins. Enjoy. Well, Nathan, I want to start

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by saying two things. Firstly, thank you to our

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mutual friend, Phil White, for connecting us.

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And secondly, I want to welcome you onto the

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Behind the Shield podcast today. Thank you so

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much for having me. Happy to be here. So where

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on planet Earth are we finding you this afternoon?

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You're finding me in a little town called Watkinsville,

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Georgia. Almost none of your listeners will know

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about that unless they're randomly local. But

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it's just outside of Athens, Georgia, which may

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be more familiar, where the University of Georgia

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is. We are about roughly an hour and a half east

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of Atlanta. Beautiful. Well, I would love to

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start at the very beginning of your timeline.

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So tell me where you were born and tell me a

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little bit about your family dynamic, what your

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parents did, how many siblings. Oh, yeah. Wow.

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Going way back to the beginning. Way back. Yeah,

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I was born in the Atlanta area, suburbs of...

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North Atlanta, Marietta, Georgia, where I mostly

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grew up. Let's see, what's the interesting stuff?

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So I have one younger sister. I have a step -sister

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who's the same age as my younger sister. They're

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about six weeks apart and they're about two years

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younger than me. So we were all really close

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growing up. And we also have an older step -brother,

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three years older than me. And, um, that nuclear

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family all came together when my mom and stepdad

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got married when I was nine. Um, this is all

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in the, or was I eight somewhere in there? Um,

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we're going, we're in ancient history right now.

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So I might get a little of the details, but,

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uh, let's see, what can I tell you? Uh, that

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was, um, those were, these are, these are fun

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times. So we moved from, uh, from the Atlanta

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area out to Seattle, Washington. Right. Pretty

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much immediately when my mom stepped up, got

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married, his job took us out there and we thought

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we were going to be there for forever. We were

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only there for about two years before his job

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then brought us back to the Atlanta area. And

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so all that to say, and then, and then I've more

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or less lived in somewhere in the state of Georgia,

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um, pretty much ever since minus a few years

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of, uh, uh, my graduate training and postdoctoral

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work, which we can talk about. But to answer

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the first part of the question about family dynamics

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and growing up, I can share that we were all,

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you know, very active in sports, very, you know,

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physical activity and exercise, which is now

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a big part of my life. That was a big thing for

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us. But then I also, interestingly, at the same

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time that that was true, I also struggled with

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my body weight as a child. The Jenkins side of

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my family, so my dad's side in particular, Very

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traditional Southern upbringing, lots of great

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Southern food. And this is the 80s and 90s that

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we're talking about when, oh gosh, we're past

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the initiation of the overweight and obesity

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epidemic, but in the exponential growth phase

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of that. And so I definitely got caught up in

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that. And also my major impact for me is my grandfather,

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my dad's dad died young of, well, it was mainly

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from complications of smoking, but he had heart

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disease. I think he survived at least one or

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two heart attacks before the last one he did

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not. And then he also had lung cancer and all

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that from smoking. And so that's not a happy

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thing to share, but it was, I remember being

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very young being. you know of course sad about

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all that i was closer to my grandpa but that

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sparked an interest in health and fitness um

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at a pretty early age and in physiology in particular

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cardiovascular physiology which is what i ended

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up focusing on primarily in my um you know my

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graduate school days and as an exercise physiologist

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eventually so Oh, gosh, yeah, there's a lot I

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could share about the childhood years, but we

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can keep going. No, I mean, this is what's interesting,

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because normally what people experience in the

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younger years, they really do factor into choices

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and passions as they get older. When you reflect

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back now, what was the kind of nutrition that

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you were served in school? Oh, in school, it

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was, oh, gosh, it's processed on processed foods,

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which I'm not. complete uh anti -processed food

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zealot by any means but uh that was you know

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very um calorie dense but nutritionally poor

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uh food for sure and this and listen i grew up

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in a at least middle class and then later on

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very upper middle class frankly affluent area

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and it didn't matter the the uh the quality of

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the food was it was not not great it was not

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great So, but we did have, we had good food at

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home for sure. You know, mostly whole foods.

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A lot of my mom and my dad both cooked quite

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a bit of food at home. My stepdad's a lousy cook,

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but he did, he did a bunch of other good stuff,

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but that was not one. But, you know, always grew

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up eating, you know, for the most part, very

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healthy food. So yeah, the school's disaster.

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I just learned recently from one of the guests

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that currently at least, the food that's served

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in our schools and prisons, there's two parallel

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and similar paths, are technically expired foods

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that these processed food companies sell for

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a lesser price to those. So not only are our

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children getting shit food, but they're getting

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expired shit food, which is even worse. Yeah,

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I didn't know that. And that's today. Wow. That

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sounds like a stat from the era that we're talking

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about, the 80s and 90s. If that's a 2025 statistic,

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that's concerning. Absolutely. Well, you mentioned

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about being active. What were the sports and

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exercise that you were playing and doing back

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then? Well, as a kid, mostly... one thing my

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parents were really good about and i think about

00:10:06.259 --> 00:10:08.179
this a lot now because i have a i now have a

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three -year -old and so starting to think about

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sports for him uh the mantra was exposure to

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everything um i played uh baseball basketball

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i never really played football other than just

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like yard stuff but um you know most team sports

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i doubt it was for at least a season or two uh

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but the real um uh in in my youth like physical

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activity exercise experience wasn't really so

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much from this from sports as much as it was

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i got very very into um first it was weight training

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and this would be categorized today as like traditional

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uh bodybuilding style weight training again 19

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we're talking like 1998 1999 uh 16 years old

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i got a membership with the local uh with mirrors

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and free weights. And I was that kid, the high

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school kid doing curls in front of the mirror.

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And I loved it. I absolutely fell in love with

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that. And then around the same time, maybe a

00:11:09.059 --> 00:11:11.259
couple of years, but still in high school, I

00:11:11.259 --> 00:11:14.360
got into mountain biking. A buddy of mine in

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the neighborhood had a mountain bike and he was

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really into it. We were good friends. And one

00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:23.039
time I borrowed his little sister's bike and

00:11:23.039 --> 00:11:27.039
we went in the mountains of North Georgia, Okay.

00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:28.860
Depending on where you're located, that may be

00:11:28.860 --> 00:11:30.639
loosely defined as mountains, but they were mountains

00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:34.220
to us and definitely some steep grades. But yeah,

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that's been with some breaks here and there throughout

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my life. That's been a lifelong, at least hobby.

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I raced a little bit in college for a few years.

00:11:44.379 --> 00:11:47.679
I did a little, so modest competition history

00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:50.940
there, but those two, man, I just, I couldn't

00:11:50.940 --> 00:11:53.779
get enough either of. Weight training or mountain

00:11:53.779 --> 00:11:56.960
biking, this is in the early days. And that's

00:11:56.960 --> 00:11:59.700
been more or less, again, a lifelong thing. What

00:11:59.700 --> 00:12:02.759
was it that helped you turn the corner from the

00:12:02.759 --> 00:12:05.259
weight being challenging to the fitness path?

00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:13.120
Yeah, let me think about that. It was probably,

00:12:13.220 --> 00:12:17.419
it was in early high school. I think I just kind

00:12:17.419 --> 00:12:19.659
of decided I didn't want to be a pudgy kid anymore.

00:12:21.080 --> 00:12:23.039
Coming out, you know, it's pretty common kind

00:12:23.039 --> 00:12:26.580
of coming out, coming out of like the, that prepubescent

00:12:26.580 --> 00:12:29.159
phase where a lot, a lot of boys, I know I did

00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:34.399
tend to pack on a few extra pounds. And I just,

00:12:34.440 --> 00:12:36.580
I don't know. I don't, I don't remember the exact,

00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:39.120
if there was an exact thing. I remember, I do

00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:43.019
remember one kind of thing was my old, my stepbrother

00:12:43.019 --> 00:12:45.940
I mentioned. was so he was three years older

00:12:45.940 --> 00:12:47.620
than me he was in high school playing football

00:12:47.620 --> 00:12:50.960
and in the weight room a lot and he got very

00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:55.019
strong and really muscular really fit and i wanted

00:12:55.019 --> 00:12:57.720
to be like him i wanted to um so i would have

00:12:57.720 --> 00:12:59.899
been like 12 or 13 when i i remember the first

00:12:59.899 --> 00:13:03.759
time i was i uh lifted weights in the basement

00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:07.019
of my of that house that we lived in and it was

00:13:07.019 --> 00:13:09.039
really fun and all that but what i will never

00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:13.059
forget was just the extreme soreness that um

00:13:13.860 --> 00:13:16.179
it persisted like the next day it was just shocking

00:13:16.179 --> 00:13:18.500
and then the two days later even it was even

00:13:18.500 --> 00:13:21.860
worse and it was probably four weeks before um

00:13:21.860 --> 00:13:24.279
or four weeks four days before i felt somewhat

00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:28.259
normal again and i from what i understood and

00:13:28.259 --> 00:13:31.759
this is this was internet existed but it wasn't

00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:33.440
like i could go on and look up the late onset

00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:35.539
muscle soreness and learn about it but it's just

00:13:35.539 --> 00:13:37.659
the way that i think my stepbrother my stepdad

00:13:37.659 --> 00:13:38.820
with the way they explained to me he's like yeah

00:13:38.820 --> 00:13:41.100
that's that's the essentially they were right

00:13:41.100 --> 00:13:43.559
this the um that means your muscles are going

00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:45.639
to get stronger they got it they're damaged they're

00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:46.639
going to heal and you're going to get stronger

00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:48.720
i was like that is the coolest thing in the world

00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:52.139
let me do it again and so um got really into

00:13:52.139 --> 00:13:54.659
it and then kind of the nutrition piece like

00:13:54.659 --> 00:13:56.279
as i gained muscle i remember it was gaining

00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:59.320
muscle the nutrition piece uh fell into place

00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:01.919
at that time it was very well known and very

00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:05.139
well understood that eating more protein means

00:14:05.139 --> 00:14:07.179
you gain more muscle so i became obsessed with

00:14:07.179 --> 00:14:12.250
like lunch meat and uh gosh this is also Again,

00:14:12.330 --> 00:14:16.570
high school boy, voracious appetite, ate my poor

00:14:16.570 --> 00:14:19.789
mother out of house and home. She couldn't hardly

00:14:19.789 --> 00:14:24.009
keep the pantry and the fridge stocked. And I

00:14:24.009 --> 00:14:27.129
remember one time my younger stepsister, she

00:14:27.129 --> 00:14:30.809
was going into the cupboard looking for a snack.

00:14:31.090 --> 00:14:32.690
And she was, I can't remember what snack she

00:14:32.690 --> 00:14:33.789
was looking for, but it was something I had already

00:14:33.789 --> 00:14:35.769
eaten. She just looks at me, she goes, why do

00:14:35.769 --> 00:14:39.230
you have to eat everything? So you eat everything

00:14:39.230 --> 00:14:43.470
in the world. So anyway, that was what we're

00:14:43.470 --> 00:14:45.009
talking about. It's like the nascent days of

00:14:45.009 --> 00:14:49.029
my, again, lifelong fascination with nutrition

00:14:49.029 --> 00:14:52.250
and fitness. When you were in high school, were

00:14:52.250 --> 00:14:54.529
you already thinking of following that educational

00:14:54.529 --> 00:14:56.289
path or was there something else in your mind?

00:14:57.549 --> 00:14:59.889
At high school, I had no idea. I knew I wanted

00:14:59.889 --> 00:15:03.450
to go to college, but I had no idea what I wanted

00:15:03.450 --> 00:15:08.429
to do or study. I think I started. I know that

00:15:08.429 --> 00:15:13.029
I started college as a political science major

00:15:13.029 --> 00:15:15.610
just because I enjoyed social studies and high

00:15:15.610 --> 00:15:20.029
school government classes and stuff. And that

00:15:20.029 --> 00:15:24.330
lasted all of about three weeks. All it took

00:15:24.330 --> 00:15:27.750
was the first political science 101 class to

00:15:27.750 --> 00:15:29.409
know that, okay, this is fine, but I don't want

00:15:29.409 --> 00:15:33.309
to study this for all four years. Um, so I, uh,

00:15:33.450 --> 00:15:36.629
at this point, I remember being in the dorm on

00:15:36.629 --> 00:15:43.370
my, uh, gigantic, you know, uh, huge old school

00:15:43.370 --> 00:15:46.409
PC with the, with the, you know, the monitor

00:15:46.409 --> 00:15:49.049
that was like, weighed like 4 ,000 pounds. Uh,

00:15:49.190 --> 00:15:51.590
it's doing a deep dive into the websites of all,

00:15:51.610 --> 00:15:53.690
you know, when I went to university of Georgia,

00:15:53.750 --> 00:15:55.730
which fortunately for me, that was a. you know

00:15:55.730 --> 00:15:58.269
a large land grant institution with lots of majors

00:15:58.269 --> 00:16:00.429
available like i wasn't at a small liberal arts

00:16:00.429 --> 00:16:01.850
school with just you know relatively smaller

00:16:01.850 --> 00:16:03.850
selection so i was just like looking through

00:16:03.850 --> 00:16:05.570
everything that seemed interesting to me and

00:16:05.570 --> 00:16:07.830
i was i was looking for something in you know

00:16:07.830 --> 00:16:09.570
the fitness or nutrition i came across exercise

00:16:09.570 --> 00:16:12.389
science um exercise and sports science and i

00:16:12.389 --> 00:16:15.289
was like that's what i that's that's what i'm

00:16:15.289 --> 00:16:16.889
trying to read about learn about all the time

00:16:16.889 --> 00:16:19.850
anyway um i didn't i had no idea even when i

00:16:19.850 --> 00:16:23.080
started on campus that that was an option that

00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:24.799
that was a major but i came across it just searching

00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:27.879
and so yeah that's what i that's what i switched

00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:32.220
to and stayed stayed with it so i went and did

00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:36.039
uh sports science and exercise sports science

00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:38.419
and fitness evaluation in university of north

00:16:38.419 --> 00:16:41.039
london and then just recently a few years ago

00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:43.600
finished off my bachelor's at uf and that was

00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:47.419
exercise physiology yeah when i reflect back

00:16:48.029 --> 00:16:50.690
The problem that I had, in at least my personal

00:16:50.690 --> 00:16:53.509
experience, was it seemed like it really groomed

00:16:53.509 --> 00:16:56.470
you to stay in a lab rather than to leave and

00:16:56.470 --> 00:17:00.649
be a coach or some of the more hands -on things

00:17:00.649 --> 00:17:02.830
where you're able to move the needle on your

00:17:02.830 --> 00:17:05.150
own performance and then also help people in

00:17:05.150 --> 00:17:07.890
the gym, on the field. What was your experience

00:17:07.890 --> 00:17:11.809
educationally as far as the academic side? It

00:17:11.809 --> 00:17:18.730
was almost exactly that. You know, it's a really

00:17:18.730 --> 00:17:21.890
cool major and a cool degree. And there are certainly

00:17:21.890 --> 00:17:25.809
programs around the country, around the world

00:17:25.809 --> 00:17:30.569
that are very effective at training trainers

00:17:30.569 --> 00:17:34.269
and training fitness professionals. But for the

00:17:34.269 --> 00:17:37.130
most part, the field is quite academic and that's

00:17:37.130 --> 00:17:40.109
cool. But so like for me, for example, it was.

00:17:41.130 --> 00:17:43.089
And that's the track that I was on. So it was

00:17:43.089 --> 00:17:46.809
a good fit for me. I liked the idea of I knew

00:17:46.809 --> 00:17:49.269
from when I was a freshman in college that I

00:17:49.269 --> 00:17:52.450
wanted to be a professional researcher, which

00:17:52.450 --> 00:17:55.690
was, you know, kind of unusual. But I just happened

00:17:55.690 --> 00:17:59.230
to have that exposure. I had a fantastic professor

00:17:59.230 --> 00:18:02.839
who. was very open to undergraduates doing research

00:18:02.839 --> 00:18:05.059
in the lab. And I saw that and I was like, I

00:18:05.059 --> 00:18:07.500
want this guy's job. All he, you know, what he

00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:09.420
likes, what he seems to do is walk around and

00:18:09.420 --> 00:18:11.680
ask people questions all day. It's, you know,

00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:14.299
students and, and invite academic discussion.

00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:17.559
I loved it. I was all for it. So it was great

00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:20.259
for that. But to your point, it wasn't ideal

00:18:20.259 --> 00:18:24.380
for training, you know, learning things that

00:18:24.380 --> 00:18:26.970
are actually help. if you're a personal trainer

00:18:26.970 --> 00:18:29.289
or a coach your client or your athlete in the

00:18:29.289 --> 00:18:33.349
gym on monday morning necessarily um so i've

00:18:33.349 --> 00:18:35.470
i mean there's again i don't want to speak in

00:18:35.470 --> 00:18:37.670
absolutes there's definitely spaces for that

00:18:37.670 --> 00:18:39.950
and it's every program is going to be different

00:18:39.950 --> 00:18:43.269
but you mentioned uf which is a very also a very

00:18:43.269 --> 00:18:46.670
academic institution uh and that that department

00:18:46.670 --> 00:18:49.390
in particular is excellent academically and some

00:18:49.390 --> 00:18:52.200
of the best research in our field I'm familiar

00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:53.839
with some of the vascular physiology that's come

00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:56.759
out of VUF. It's absolutely incredible, but it

00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:01.160
wouldn't be a great fit for at least that particular

00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:03.880
program, that particular lab or whatever. It

00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:05.519
wouldn't be a great fit at all for somebody that's

00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:07.759
trying to dive deeper in the coaching space.

00:19:08.700 --> 00:19:11.819
Yeah, we had one semester where basically it

00:19:11.819 --> 00:19:15.339
was a prep class for the NSCA CSCS. That was

00:19:15.339 --> 00:19:17.960
phenomenal, and it was a hybrid class. Actually,

00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:20.789
I think it was a remote class. really well done

00:19:20.789 --> 00:19:22.990
you know all the content was there but then yeah

00:19:22.990 --> 00:19:24.650
you go into some of the other ones and it was

00:19:24.650 --> 00:19:28.049
so myopic that you were like i understand the

00:19:28.049 --> 00:19:30.349
idea the concept but where's the application

00:19:30.349 --> 00:19:33.910
to your regular athlete that's right that's right

00:19:33.910 --> 00:19:36.690
and it became so i remember i taught a um so

00:19:36.690 --> 00:19:38.890
now we're going to jump ahead to when i was a

00:19:38.890 --> 00:19:42.069
professor at uga for nine years um i taught a

00:19:42.069 --> 00:19:45.930
graduate course on exercise metabolism and it

00:19:45.930 --> 00:19:51.359
was a required Course for our, the students in

00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:54.099
the master strength and conditioning specialist.

00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:57.299
So it was a non -thesis track. It was purely

00:19:57.299 --> 00:20:00.380
basically for coaches. And I ended up changing,

00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:02.900
I kept the concepts the same, but when I inherited

00:20:02.900 --> 00:20:05.140
that course from the faculty member who taught

00:20:05.140 --> 00:20:07.160
it before me, it was all research. It was all

00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:10.000
readings. It was all, again, it's purely academic.

00:20:10.619 --> 00:20:12.680
But after like a semester or two of teaching

00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:14.960
that course, I was like, I got to change this

00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:18.130
to make it more applicable to the. to our clientele,

00:20:18.130 --> 00:20:20.089
basically to the students. And so it became,

00:20:20.269 --> 00:20:21.849
I mean, it's still very much grounded. Those

00:20:21.849 --> 00:20:24.549
students were doing a lot of reading. So I tried

00:20:24.549 --> 00:20:26.109
to like, I tried to thread the needle as best

00:20:26.109 --> 00:20:28.670
I could. It was, you know, if you're going to

00:20:28.670 --> 00:20:30.430
have a master's degree, then yes, you need to

00:20:30.430 --> 00:20:32.809
be an intelligent and educated and professional

00:20:32.809 --> 00:20:35.049
consumer of research. So we're going to use our

00:20:35.049 --> 00:20:37.750
course readings to teach you that skill. But

00:20:37.750 --> 00:20:40.309
I totally changed the, like I wasn't having people

00:20:40.309 --> 00:20:42.309
memorize the biochemical pathways anymore because

00:20:42.309 --> 00:20:44.890
you're not going to do that for a client. we

00:20:44.890 --> 00:20:47.609
will have a good understanding of the the energy

00:20:47.609 --> 00:20:50.109
systems the metabolic energy systems that tend

00:20:50.109 --> 00:20:51.809
to govern exercise different types of exercise

00:20:51.809 --> 00:20:55.569
performance and then yeah and they did a lot

00:20:55.569 --> 00:20:57.089
of really cool i'm remembering now it's been

00:20:57.089 --> 00:20:58.349
a while but they did a lot of really cool group

00:20:58.349 --> 00:21:01.829
projects on um okay this is they would pick an

00:21:01.829 --> 00:21:04.210
athlete or a particular sport and do like a case

00:21:04.210 --> 00:21:08.089
study and um identify like one thing that did

00:21:08.089 --> 00:21:09.529
was pretty cool was like i want you to identify

00:21:09.529 --> 00:21:12.309
the third or fourth place finisher in this olympic

00:21:12.309 --> 00:21:15.130
sport Talk to me about why aren't they the first

00:21:15.130 --> 00:21:17.710
place? Can you come up with a physiological reason

00:21:17.710 --> 00:21:21.650
why they're maybe not the top person? That created

00:21:21.650 --> 00:21:23.809
a lot of discussion. But so anyway, sorry, tangent,

00:21:23.950 --> 00:21:29.430
rabbit hole. But yeah, this is a challenge for

00:21:29.430 --> 00:21:34.549
the universities where, yes, the people like

00:21:34.549 --> 00:21:38.329
yourself who want to level up their game with

00:21:38.329 --> 00:21:41.730
their education, their credentials. You go look

00:21:41.730 --> 00:21:43.289
in the ivory tower, you're not going to find

00:21:43.289 --> 00:21:46.609
a lot of times a lot of applicable stuff, even

00:21:46.609 --> 00:21:49.069
if you do get the nice letters behind your name

00:21:49.069 --> 00:21:51.730
and all that. I think this is why we're seeing,

00:21:51.890 --> 00:21:54.450
I just saw an article recently, a lot of the

00:21:54.450 --> 00:21:58.450
Gen Z generation are going into the trades. And

00:21:58.450 --> 00:22:00.750
I think the reason is you can look online and

00:22:00.750 --> 00:22:02.890
for the same reason that a lot of people aren't

00:22:02.890 --> 00:22:04.549
going to the fire service at the moment, you

00:22:04.549 --> 00:22:07.750
can now research all the bad side, all the diseases

00:22:07.750 --> 00:22:10.380
and the mental health things. when they look

00:22:10.380 --> 00:22:13.619
at your average degree um you know they say okay

00:22:13.619 --> 00:22:15.400
it's tens of thousands of dollars and you get

00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:17.519
a piece of paper it doesn't guarantee you a job

00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:20.640
versus the trades obviously it's you know a more

00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:23.039
intense version of education and then yeah you've

00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:25.039
got the school set skill set excuse me and you

00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:28.500
leave and i think that maybe is is the future

00:22:28.500 --> 00:22:31.500
of higher academia as well is to start bringing

00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:34.440
back some of that you know hands -on real world

00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:36.750
elements so that if someone is going to be in

00:22:36.750 --> 00:22:40.390
an academic facility for two or four years, that

00:22:40.390 --> 00:22:42.549
when they step out the back door, that they do

00:22:42.549 --> 00:22:47.230
have a track to an actual profession. Absolutely.

00:22:47.430 --> 00:22:52.170
And yeah, listen, I'm all for higher education

00:22:52.170 --> 00:22:54.509
when it makes sense. Talking to somebody with

00:22:54.509 --> 00:22:57.109
a doctorate degree, was a professor for a long

00:22:57.109 --> 00:23:00.410
time. But I'm thinking about thinking about my

00:23:00.410 --> 00:23:02.470
son when he's, it'll be, who knows what the landscape

00:23:02.470 --> 00:23:04.369
is going to be like in about, you know, 15 years

00:23:04.369 --> 00:23:08.009
or so when he's making that decision, but I'm

00:23:08.009 --> 00:23:09.730
not necessarily an advocate for everybody to

00:23:09.730 --> 00:23:12.710
go to college anymore. And, you know, if you

00:23:12.710 --> 00:23:16.390
ask me that probably 10 years ago, maybe 15,

00:23:16.470 --> 00:23:18.390
20 years ago when I was in it, like for sure,

00:23:18.490 --> 00:23:20.549
that's what everybody used to do, you know, but

00:23:20.549 --> 00:23:25.910
completely not the case now. Cause I mean, I

00:23:25.910 --> 00:23:28.849
would say I would actually, even in, even by

00:23:28.849 --> 00:23:31.849
the time students would get to me so in the undergraduate

00:23:31.849 --> 00:23:33.450
program they were in their junior senior year

00:23:33.450 --> 00:23:36.569
i remember seeing thinking wow this college may

00:23:36.569 --> 00:23:38.390
not have been for this person they really need

00:23:38.390 --> 00:23:40.890
to be you know a trade might be a better fit

00:23:40.890 --> 00:23:44.470
um and that might have been smarter for them

00:23:44.470 --> 00:23:48.970
you know so it's a challenge for sure no 100

00:23:48.970 --> 00:23:52.589
while we're on the subject of still in college

00:23:52.589 --> 00:23:54.190
and obviously i'm sure you're interacting with

00:23:54.190 --> 00:23:57.380
a lot of athletes during that time One of the

00:23:57.380 --> 00:23:59.299
observations, and I talk about this all the time

00:23:59.299 --> 00:24:01.839
on here, but I think it's an important topic

00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:05.980
to bring up. When I first moved to America, after

00:24:05.980 --> 00:24:08.799
a while, I kept bumping into what I call Uncle

00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:12.440
Ricos. So these guys were either side of 30 -ish,

00:24:12.500 --> 00:24:15.640
very deconditioned by this point, and every single

00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:18.359
one of them had a story. I would have been in

00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:22.079
the NFL, NHL, NBA had it not been for my, insert,

00:24:22.099 --> 00:24:25.160
horrendous career -ending injury here. And I

00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:27.359
remember thinking, what are they doing to children

00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:30.640
in this country? And then you live here now,

00:24:30.700 --> 00:24:36.200
my son's 18 and my stepson is 24. So, yeah, I've

00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:39.079
been more exposed to it now. But I realized that...

00:24:39.289 --> 00:24:41.849
In the UK, at least when I was young, and obviously

00:24:41.849 --> 00:24:43.710
now you can tell by my face that was a long time

00:24:43.710 --> 00:24:48.329
ago, we didn't play sports at a super high level.

00:24:48.450 --> 00:24:50.130
We didn't do a lot of strength and conditioning

00:24:50.130 --> 00:24:53.309
and training. We just played. And then by osmosis,

00:24:53.309 --> 00:24:55.109
the kids that were really good, they would find

00:24:55.109 --> 00:24:58.029
themselves in the training teams that sent you

00:24:58.029 --> 00:25:01.650
to Manchester United or whatever your sport was.

00:25:02.089 --> 00:25:05.410
But everyone else played sport a lot. But then

00:25:05.410 --> 00:25:08.390
when you graduate school, you saw people keep

00:25:08.390 --> 00:25:10.589
playing sport, you know, local leagues and pub

00:25:10.589 --> 00:25:13.650
leagues and all that kind of thing. As I was

00:25:13.650 --> 00:25:15.990
more exposed to athletics in America, what I

00:25:15.990 --> 00:25:20.630
realized is that a high, high level of performance

00:25:20.630 --> 00:25:23.250
was squeezed out of these high school and college

00:25:23.250 --> 00:25:27.569
kids at the detriment of their wellness and longevity.

00:25:28.349 --> 00:25:31.230
What is your perspective of that now with this

00:25:31.230 --> 00:25:33.529
pretty, you know, interesting veteran lens that

00:25:33.529 --> 00:25:37.150
you have? Oh, well, I wouldn't say that. I'm

00:25:37.150 --> 00:25:38.809
going to answer your question, but with the caveat

00:25:38.809 --> 00:25:41.349
that we're not in my real area of expertise at

00:25:41.349 --> 00:25:46.750
all. But I think my opinion, my sense is that

00:25:46.750 --> 00:25:51.829
there's an over -specialization in sport and

00:25:51.829 --> 00:25:56.970
culturally. So I should just say over -emphasis

00:25:56.970 --> 00:26:00.210
on this idea that kids need to specialize in

00:26:00.210 --> 00:26:02.809
a sport at a young age, like you said. try to

00:26:02.809 --> 00:26:05.849
peak for performance in high school. And I think

00:26:05.849 --> 00:26:09.450
there's a lot of negative consequences to that.

00:26:09.509 --> 00:26:13.589
One of which is the propensity for injury, the

00:26:13.589 --> 00:26:16.029
increased injury risk that comes with it that

00:26:16.029 --> 00:26:19.609
you're talking about, which that can come from

00:26:19.609 --> 00:26:22.309
many things that either overuse injury in a particular

00:26:22.309 --> 00:26:24.950
set of movement patterns for a particular sport

00:26:24.950 --> 00:26:31.220
or a particular position in a sport. Or on the

00:26:31.220 --> 00:26:33.240
off chance that you say you're a baseball player

00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:35.720
and then you pick up, you're playing a game of

00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:39.920
backup or pickup of football in the yard and

00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:42.279
you're not used to twisting and turning and doing

00:26:42.279 --> 00:26:44.200
all those dynamic things, then that's when you

00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:47.660
snap your ACL or whatever. Well, that's because

00:26:47.660 --> 00:26:51.799
it's a novel movement, right? And there's lack

00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:54.579
of physical preparation for that kind of demand.

00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:58.619
The other... Negative side effect that I think

00:26:58.619 --> 00:27:01.559
you also touched on is that, you know, we don't,

00:27:01.559 --> 00:27:05.359
after we, and I give my friends a hard time about

00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:07.579
this all the time. It's like, yeah, athletically,

00:27:07.660 --> 00:27:11.000
this is my neighbors next door or whatever. Yeah,

00:27:11.059 --> 00:27:14.400
you peaked in high school. You know, this whole

00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:16.640
phenomenon of peaking in high school or maybe

00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:19.519
even in college and then kind of hanging it up

00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:22.160
and not really continuing to play, continuing

00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:25.839
to participate in physical activity in a more

00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:28.730
general sense. Well, that's one of the biggest

00:27:28.730 --> 00:27:36.349
reasons for physical inactivity and quote -unquote

00:27:36.349 --> 00:27:39.690
age -related declines in health and physiological

00:27:39.690 --> 00:27:43.769
performance. And so culturally, that begins,

00:27:43.990 --> 00:27:45.490
I think, with what we're talking about, which

00:27:45.490 --> 00:27:49.349
is the – well, there's multiple reasons for the

00:27:49.349 --> 00:27:51.430
lack of physical activity, lack of health -related

00:27:51.430 --> 00:27:54.109
behaviors, but I think there's a certain subset

00:27:54.109 --> 00:27:57.460
of our culture is significant. a group of folks

00:27:57.460 --> 00:27:59.180
where this, what we're talking about is applicable.

00:27:59.539 --> 00:28:02.640
My own father is another example. He was an athletic

00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:05.619
man growing up and played football, played all

00:28:05.619 --> 00:28:07.880
sorts of sports, was a very strong man. But then

00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:10.380
after high school, he didn't do much at all.

00:28:10.579 --> 00:28:16.680
And yeah, that's another reason for how I am

00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:19.319
the way I am. Pigeon swings one way and then

00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:20.980
sometimes goes the other way with generations.

00:28:22.829 --> 00:28:26.630
Yeah. Anyway, I hope that answers your question.

00:28:26.710 --> 00:28:29.190
I think it's a significant thing. Yeah. No, it

00:28:29.190 --> 00:28:32.029
does. I think this is a powerful conversation

00:28:32.029 --> 00:28:36.329
as if the way that we're, you know, again, squeezing

00:28:36.329 --> 00:28:40.349
that performance at the detriment of the student.

00:28:41.099 --> 00:28:43.279
then we're not only setting them up for failure

00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:49.119
with the injuries, you've got also the psychological

00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:52.740
burnout. But then, you know, because you've driven

00:28:52.740 --> 00:28:55.180
them so hard, you've really just kind of squeezed

00:28:55.180 --> 00:28:58.019
the love of sport, the love of play out of them

00:28:58.019 --> 00:29:00.819
as well. So you look at some of these other healthier,

00:29:00.980 --> 00:29:04.420
you know, nations around the world where adults

00:29:04.420 --> 00:29:06.480
are still playing and they're still playful.

00:29:07.339 --> 00:29:09.200
It's not about winning. It's not about the trophy.

00:29:09.660 --> 00:29:12.440
I feel like we need to kind of circle back round

00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:14.859
to where the middle ground is, because even listening

00:29:14.859 --> 00:29:18.559
to the people that do work with incredible athletes,

00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:22.039
I hear it over and over again. The best athletes

00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:24.640
are also multi -sport athletes, as you said.

00:29:24.990 --> 00:29:27.730
The guy that can play baseball, but also football

00:29:27.730 --> 00:29:31.710
and soccer and basketball. Now that creates not

00:29:31.710 --> 00:29:34.410
only a high performer, but a well -rounded athlete

00:29:34.410 --> 00:29:37.150
that hopefully will carry on playing sport after

00:29:37.150 --> 00:29:41.329
they graduate. Yeah. For my son, I want him to

00:29:41.329 --> 00:29:44.849
get exposure to everything. But gosh, there's

00:29:44.849 --> 00:29:47.109
a few sports that tend to lend themselves well,

00:29:47.190 --> 00:29:50.549
just observationally. Soccer and track and field.

00:29:51.880 --> 00:29:54.319
Folks who I've seen that I've known over the

00:29:54.319 --> 00:30:00.299
years that were involved with those in their

00:30:00.299 --> 00:30:04.819
youth, there's almost always a physiological

00:30:04.819 --> 00:30:07.380
and fitness -related advantage if they continue

00:30:07.380 --> 00:30:09.759
with it later in life. I've never known anybody

00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:11.140
that was a good runner when they were a kid.

00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:14.000
Yes, there are some injury things with running

00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:17.799
and overuse and all that. Gosh, soccer seems

00:30:17.799 --> 00:30:22.000
to have... an athlete develops an athleticism

00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:25.880
that uh can carry forward into many other things

00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:28.680
kind of have like a ripple effect so i i say

00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:30.839
that i never i didn't start running until i was

00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:33.839
almost 40 and i've never played soccer uh but

00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:37.039
i'm so i'm just like i call it call it regrets

00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:41.160
i don't know um that i wish i had well it's never

00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:43.160
too late because i just started playing with

00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:45.400
a group i think it's been two years now and i'm

00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:48.960
51 So just pick up League on a Sunday, and it's

00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:51.500
so much fun. I'm sure it's awesome. I'm sure

00:30:51.500 --> 00:30:53.900
it's really fun. So, yeah, definitely going to

00:30:53.900 --> 00:30:58.220
enroll my son Camden in soccer for the four -year

00:30:58.220 --> 00:31:01.599
-old league next year. And so I'll try to pick

00:31:01.599 --> 00:31:04.380
it up with him. Let me start with the four -year

00:31:04.380 --> 00:31:07.779
-old level. Work your way up. Yeah, work my way

00:31:07.779 --> 00:31:09.640
up. If I can display competency there, I might

00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:12.640
gain a little bit of confidence to start playing

00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:15.720
with some friends. So going back to the educational

00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:20.140
side, I know that you were a vascular cell biologist.

00:31:20.700 --> 00:31:25.640
Now, talk to me about how that applies in elite

00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:27.960
performance, but did that also take you down

00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:32.680
the vascular disease path as well? Yeah, so how

00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:37.059
to describe this succinctly? Yeah, I've probably

00:31:37.059 --> 00:31:38.980
got that language of vascular cell biologist,

00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:46.690
also vascular physiologist. I always had this

00:31:46.690 --> 00:31:51.029
intense interest in mechanisms by which exercise

00:31:51.029 --> 00:31:56.589
and nutrition could prevent or potentially reverse

00:31:56.589 --> 00:31:59.769
various types of cardiovascular disease. That

00:31:59.769 --> 00:32:02.450
was my area of study, my area of research. I've

00:32:02.450 --> 00:32:06.289
also had a longstanding interest in the vascular

00:32:06.289 --> 00:32:09.170
consequences of metabolic diseases like type

00:32:09.170 --> 00:32:13.440
2 diabetes and insulin resistance. And so, again,

00:32:13.539 --> 00:32:16.700
that was the academic stuff. This is in the academic

00:32:16.700 --> 00:32:22.640
world. I wouldn't say that those areas necessarily

00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:30.140
parlayed into any kind of like coaching or work

00:32:30.140 --> 00:32:33.180
that I've done in the industry. Other than, I

00:32:33.180 --> 00:32:38.299
guess there's a couple. One is, well, I got into

00:32:38.299 --> 00:32:42.369
nutrition coaching. while I was still a professor,

00:32:42.529 --> 00:32:44.950
it was kind of like a side thing, side gig that

00:32:44.950 --> 00:32:49.230
became, well, when my son was born, it was, it

00:32:49.230 --> 00:32:51.490
escalated to like a full -time job kind of thing.

00:32:52.109 --> 00:32:54.730
So I had two, I was a professor and a nutrition

00:32:54.730 --> 00:32:57.650
coach and I couldn't keep doing both. So I decided

00:32:57.650 --> 00:33:02.609
to go all in on nutrition coaching and resigned

00:33:02.609 --> 00:33:06.650
from my position at the university. And then

00:33:06.650 --> 00:33:09.759
it was after several years of doing the nutrition

00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:12.779
coaching thing that i recently last couple years

00:33:12.779 --> 00:33:17.420
got linked up with my current role at rapid which

00:33:17.420 --> 00:33:20.700
is the biomarker analyst the labs analyst and

00:33:20.700 --> 00:33:23.900
so to answer your question finally the kind of

00:33:23.900 --> 00:33:26.559
like hearkening back drawing back from a lot

00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:31.079
of both content and way of thinking from my academic

00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:36.460
days in translating art my main deliverables

00:33:36.460 --> 00:33:38.839
to our clients, which is basically to interpret

00:33:38.839 --> 00:33:42.660
various biomarkers from blood, urine, stool,

00:33:42.740 --> 00:33:46.740
and saliva from all these various tests that

00:33:46.740 --> 00:33:49.500
they do and identify what are their key physiological

00:33:49.500 --> 00:33:51.579
constraints, what's going on in their bodies.

00:33:51.859 --> 00:33:56.509
Can I identify anything from that? expansive

00:33:56.509 --> 00:33:58.650
look under the hood of their of their body basically

00:33:58.650 --> 00:34:01.690
and um maybe correlate with their symptoms whatever

00:34:01.690 --> 00:34:03.549
it is that issues they may be having or things

00:34:03.549 --> 00:34:07.549
that they want to work on and so um that is bringing

00:34:07.549 --> 00:34:11.170
me back to a big compo like so we work a bunch

00:34:11.170 --> 00:34:14.510
of different things right but uh things like

00:34:14.510 --> 00:34:18.690
lipids uh you know cholesterol ldl cholesterol

00:34:18.690 --> 00:34:22.610
hdl cholesterol the whole array of all of that

00:34:22.610 --> 00:34:25.949
various inflammatory markers metabolic markers

00:34:25.949 --> 00:34:30.230
like fasting glucose hba1c insulin levels etc

00:34:30.230 --> 00:34:32.750
um that's all very that that all that content

00:34:32.750 --> 00:34:34.550
all that stuff is very much in my wheelhouse

00:34:34.550 --> 00:34:38.349
in my background and so um it's a really cool

00:34:38.349 --> 00:34:41.849
opportunity for me to be able to um kind of get

00:34:41.849 --> 00:34:43.510
back into the into the literature in that way

00:34:43.510 --> 00:34:48.559
um and then also Instead of teaching in the university

00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:50.599
classroom, which was awesome, which I love that

00:34:50.599 --> 00:34:54.980
and I miss that, I have this belief that coaching

00:34:54.980 --> 00:34:57.260
and teaching are basically two words that mean

00:34:57.260 --> 00:35:00.099
the same thing. They're synonyms. And so through

00:35:00.099 --> 00:35:02.940
my coaching role, I'm actually teaching clients

00:35:02.940 --> 00:35:05.980
a lot of things about physiology, but in a manner

00:35:05.980 --> 00:35:10.780
that's helpful for them. It's interesting. When

00:35:10.780 --> 00:35:14.380
I was younger, I think people really believed

00:35:14.380 --> 00:35:18.380
that you couldn't, reverse disease you know if

00:35:18.380 --> 00:35:22.179
you had diabetes if you had you know um vascular

00:35:22.179 --> 00:35:24.159
disease then that was it that you were doomed

00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:26.460
to be on these pills and just waiting one day

00:35:26.460 --> 00:35:29.280
to croak and then the the older i get and the

00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:31.679
more i'm exposed to and some of the documentaries

00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:33.960
that forks over knives and you start saying okay

00:35:33.960 --> 00:35:36.699
wait a second you know yeah if you go back to

00:35:36.699 --> 00:35:38.599
eating the way that humans were supposed to eat

00:35:38.599 --> 00:35:41.679
there is a good chance that you can reverse even

00:35:41.679 --> 00:35:44.889
some of these cancers so as you started kind

00:35:44.889 --> 00:35:46.789
of diving in the research and doing your own

00:35:46.789 --> 00:35:49.889
talk to me about that element you know how reversible

00:35:49.889 --> 00:35:53.449
are obviously not the super acute but you know

00:35:53.449 --> 00:35:55.769
the early stages mid stages of these chronic

00:35:55.769 --> 00:35:57.909
diseases that so many people are told in our

00:35:57.909 --> 00:36:01.110
doctor's offices are irreversible that's right

00:36:01.110 --> 00:36:04.590
um i've been like so i've in my academic career

00:36:04.590 --> 00:36:09.130
and also you know coaching it as well i have

00:36:09.130 --> 00:36:11.789
lived through the a big transition on this particularly

00:36:11.789 --> 00:36:15.590
on um Type 2 diabetes. When I was in school,

00:36:15.630 --> 00:36:17.309
I learned that type 2 diabetes was irreversible.

00:36:17.849 --> 00:36:22.289
And then various medical guidelines and position

00:36:22.289 --> 00:36:27.630
statements and sort of diabetes -related governing

00:36:27.630 --> 00:36:31.530
bodies for that aspect of the medical community

00:36:31.530 --> 00:36:34.170
have walked that back and said, you know, within

00:36:34.170 --> 00:36:41.099
these, there's diagnostic criteria for for diabetes

00:36:41.099 --> 00:36:46.739
hba1c above um uh was it is it six percent now

00:36:46.739 --> 00:36:49.519
okay now i'm blanking uh but is that whatever

00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:54.900
that the threshold is um it is uh reversely yes

00:36:54.900 --> 00:36:56.840
you can when you're above that then it's a positive

00:36:56.840 --> 00:36:59.900
diagnosis for type 2 diabetes uh but then with

00:36:59.900 --> 00:37:03.599
lifestyle and uh with well there's multiple ways

00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:08.139
to do it but uh mainly lifestyle good diet more

00:37:08.139 --> 00:37:10.239
physical activity you actually can move the needle

00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:14.900
and get below uh that the the diagnostic criteria

00:37:14.900 --> 00:37:20.179
so um yeah that's it's absolutely uh some things

00:37:20.179 --> 00:37:24.079
can be are reversible uh and there's also like

00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:27.099
in the setting of atherosclerotic cardiovascular

00:37:27.099 --> 00:37:31.239
disease it's tough to reverse that without pharmacologic

00:37:31.239 --> 00:37:34.670
therapy but with significant nutritional intervention

00:37:34.670 --> 00:37:37.909
of weight loss, uh, that you can at least at

00:37:37.909 --> 00:37:39.889
the very least have plaque stabilization. And

00:37:39.889 --> 00:37:42.130
some, some studies do, do promote plaque regression,

00:37:42.329 --> 00:37:45.550
um, with exercise alone. That was one of the

00:37:45.550 --> 00:37:46.949
things that we looked at quite a bit. Can you

00:37:46.949 --> 00:37:49.150
reverse an atherosclerotic plaque? Can you, can

00:37:49.150 --> 00:37:51.349
you make an atherosclerotic plaque smaller with

00:37:51.349 --> 00:37:53.030
just exercise? The answer seems like probably

00:37:53.030 --> 00:37:56.090
not. Um, you can certainly stay at one of the

00:37:56.090 --> 00:37:58.750
mechanisms of. uh, the vascular benefits of exercise

00:37:58.750 --> 00:38:01.210
in that context is that you could stay help stabilize

00:38:01.210 --> 00:38:03.489
a plaque. So a plaque can become less prone to

00:38:03.489 --> 00:38:06.289
rupture with, uh, with exercise, but you can't

00:38:06.289 --> 00:38:08.670
really reverse it. But anyway, yeah, it's certain

00:38:08.670 --> 00:38:11.869
diseases. Um, as a big, as a, that's a big question

00:38:11.869 --> 00:38:13.750
of mine always is, can you, are these diseases,

00:38:13.809 --> 00:38:17.670
are they really irreversible? Um, and the answer

00:38:17.670 --> 00:38:21.230
is no, it's in fact, some of them are, are reversible.

00:38:21.369 --> 00:38:23.150
You can, you can quote unquote cure them. So,

00:38:23.210 --> 00:38:27.039
um, I think that's really cool. No, I do too.

00:38:27.139 --> 00:38:30.619
Another thing that seems to have changed as we've

00:38:30.619 --> 00:38:36.480
evolved is the conversation from plaque to more

00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:39.139
like inflammation. So rather than there actually

00:38:39.139 --> 00:38:41.460
be just all these fatty clots sort of floating

00:38:41.460 --> 00:38:43.940
around just waiting to break off, that the lining

00:38:43.940 --> 00:38:46.400
was actually more inflamed than anything else.

00:38:46.579 --> 00:38:48.800
So what have you seen as far as that kind of

00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:51.840
metamorphosis of the understanding of the physiology

00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:56.000
behind heart disease? Yeah, so there's, I mean,

00:38:56.039 --> 00:38:58.800
there's a lot of, there's different types of

00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:03.780
heart disease and different types of vessel wall

00:39:03.780 --> 00:39:06.800
pathology. Inflammation is a big component of

00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:14.260
pretty much all of it. So the conventional thinking

00:39:14.260 --> 00:39:16.760
of how atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease

00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:21.159
works is like an ischemic atherosclerotic cardiovascular

00:39:21.159 --> 00:39:24.550
disease is where the plaque builds up. continually

00:39:24.550 --> 00:39:26.730
progressively over time and it gets thicker and

00:39:26.730 --> 00:39:29.849
thicker and thicker and the lumen the the diameter

00:39:29.849 --> 00:39:31.769
of the artery gets smaller and smaller and smaller

00:39:31.769 --> 00:39:34.170
and eventually it gets too small and blood can't

00:39:34.170 --> 00:39:37.070
go through it anymore anything downstream of

00:39:37.070 --> 00:39:40.750
of that artery of that blood supply yeah because

00:39:40.750 --> 00:39:43.630
subject to lack of blood flow and eventually

00:39:43.630 --> 00:39:48.030
tissue death and if that's a coronary artery

00:39:48.030 --> 00:39:50.610
then that's a big problem right And that does

00:39:50.610 --> 00:39:52.090
happen. I'm not saying that doesn't happen, but

00:39:52.090 --> 00:39:54.329
there's a lot more to it. To your point, it's

00:39:54.329 --> 00:39:56.170
not just the narrowing of the artery. It's not

00:39:56.170 --> 00:39:59.510
just the lack of blood flow in that sense. But

00:39:59.510 --> 00:40:07.750
it turns out that much more of the prevalence

00:40:07.750 --> 00:40:10.070
of atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease is

00:40:10.070 --> 00:40:13.110
actually where the lumen diameter hasn't really

00:40:13.110 --> 00:40:16.630
changed that much, but the plaque is building

00:40:16.630 --> 00:40:21.119
up progressively on that. And there's hypertrophy

00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:23.440
of the plaque, essentially, such that the wall

00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:25.019
is getting thicker and thicker and thicker. Again,

00:40:25.099 --> 00:40:26.900
the lumen's staying about the same size, but

00:40:26.900 --> 00:40:30.179
there's this buildup of lipid deposition and

00:40:30.179 --> 00:40:33.099
nasty things like immune cells, which are very

00:40:33.099 --> 00:40:39.420
much inflammatory in nature. When immune cells

00:40:39.420 --> 00:40:41.980
take up residence in the vessel wall, they kind

00:40:41.980 --> 00:40:44.079
of create this microenvironment of inflammation

00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:45.719
that begets more and more inflammation. It's

00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:49.440
a feed -forward thing. And the dangerous thing

00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:51.820
about these plaques, and by the way, this is

00:40:51.820 --> 00:40:53.920
called outward remodeling rather than inward

00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:57.280
remodeling, which is the first scenario. Well,

00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:00.300
the dangerous thing is that these plaques, in

00:41:00.300 --> 00:41:04.940
stages of advanced inflammation, they can become

00:41:04.940 --> 00:41:08.380
prone to rupture. And when they rupture, it's

00:41:08.380 --> 00:41:12.780
a thrombotic cleavage event where basically a

00:41:12.780 --> 00:41:15.719
blood clot breaks off and flows downstream. And

00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:17.900
then that's what actually causes the acute event

00:41:17.900 --> 00:41:21.440
where at first it's okay. It can flow through

00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:22.760
the vessel. But what happens in the arterial

00:41:22.760 --> 00:41:24.539
tree? Well, as you get further and further branched

00:41:24.539 --> 00:41:26.320
out, the vessels get smaller and smaller and

00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:29.780
smaller. And eventually that thrombus will become

00:41:29.780 --> 00:41:33.440
lodged in an artery or arteriole where it cannot

00:41:33.440 --> 00:41:36.179
flow anymore. And that's when we get the massive

00:41:36.179 --> 00:41:40.880
event. And so that understanding, sort of new

00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:44.849
understanding of the pathophysiology of The outward

00:41:44.849 --> 00:41:46.650
remodeling and the lumen staying about the same

00:41:46.650 --> 00:41:51.610
size and the thrombotic event being the main

00:41:51.610 --> 00:41:57.449
event for the heart attack, that was pretty revolutionary.

00:41:57.769 --> 00:42:00.469
This occurred probably in the 80s and 90s, but

00:42:00.469 --> 00:42:03.929
still it's taken a long time for that knowledge

00:42:03.929 --> 00:42:07.590
to become more mainstream. And it may actually

00:42:07.590 --> 00:42:09.070
even be new for some of the listeners hearing

00:42:09.070 --> 00:42:11.849
this. If you don't live in that world, it may

00:42:11.849 --> 00:42:14.099
not be something that... you're necessarily aware

00:42:14.099 --> 00:42:18.300
of that more of the, and I'd have to look at

00:42:18.300 --> 00:42:19.360
the numbers, different studies show different

00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:24.519
numbers, but the prevalence of ischemic events

00:42:24.519 --> 00:42:29.619
like coronary artery events that occur due to

00:42:29.619 --> 00:42:33.400
plaque rupture and the thrombotic event that

00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:36.579
I'm talking about is something like. I don't

00:42:36.579 --> 00:42:38.159
want to say specific numbers, but it's the vast

00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:40.900
majority, the vast majority, as opposed to that

00:42:40.900 --> 00:42:43.719
progressive narrowing of the artery. So that's,

00:42:43.719 --> 00:42:46.460
so yeah, that's, I mean, this is kind of like

00:42:46.460 --> 00:42:49.559
the biological stuff, but anyway, that's to,

00:42:49.639 --> 00:42:51.179
to answer your question, inflammation is a huge

00:42:51.179 --> 00:42:53.760
part of that. And it turns out from a, okay,

00:42:53.820 --> 00:42:55.280
what, what, what can we do with this information?

00:42:55.659 --> 00:42:58.320
Well, that's one of the reasons for take, if,

00:42:58.420 --> 00:43:01.539
if blood work shows. a significant inflammatory

00:43:01.539 --> 00:43:04.599
signature, or even something like a gut health

00:43:04.599 --> 00:43:07.099
stool analysis shows a significant inflammatory

00:43:07.099 --> 00:43:09.539
signature, well, there's a lot of reasons that

00:43:09.539 --> 00:43:12.639
we want to address that and reduce inflammation

00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:15.300
and get inflammation something that's managed.

00:43:15.579 --> 00:43:17.079
And I say to get rid of inflammation altogether,

00:43:17.320 --> 00:43:19.440
inflammation when dosed appropriately and administered

00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:21.480
appropriately can be a very powerful adaptive

00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:23.239
signal. And it's an important part of immunity

00:43:23.239 --> 00:43:26.639
and of host defense of fighting off foreign pathogens,

00:43:26.780 --> 00:43:28.260
but we don't want it to be running rampant in

00:43:28.260 --> 00:43:32.079
your coronary arteries. Absolutely. I want to

00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:34.239
get to kind of some of the reasons that we're

00:43:34.239 --> 00:43:36.039
even here now as far as the nation's health.

00:43:36.059 --> 00:43:37.980
But one more area when we're on the diabetes

00:43:37.980 --> 00:43:40.940
conversation, I've had a lot of people talking

00:43:40.940 --> 00:43:44.099
about recently is Alzheimer's being termed as

00:43:44.099 --> 00:43:47.119
type three diabetes. So talk to me about the

00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:51.340
nutritional element of improving the risk for

00:43:51.340 --> 00:43:55.699
some sort of neurodegenerative disease. Yeah,

00:43:55.739 --> 00:43:59.239
so I've definitely I've heard that. for quite

00:43:59.239 --> 00:44:03.679
a while now. Oh, gosh. Who is the guy at Emory?

00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:08.840
Not far from me. I think he coined it. But in

00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:16.679
any case, it's essentially a problem of excessive

00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:19.300
glycation and the attendant inflammation in the

00:44:19.300 --> 00:44:22.800
brain is Alzheimer's. It is very much linked

00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:27.530
to dysregulation of blood glucose. insulin resistance

00:44:27.530 --> 00:44:31.889
and all that so yes a major mechanism of neurodegenerative

00:44:31.889 --> 00:44:36.550
disease and again another reason to be paying

00:44:36.550 --> 00:44:40.070
attention to our glucose regulation and our uh

00:44:40.070 --> 00:44:43.550
you know glucose homeostasis so absolutely well

00:44:43.550 --> 00:44:46.469
before we dive into what you are doing now when

00:44:46.469 --> 00:44:48.590
you were doing the research when we look back

00:44:48.590 --> 00:44:53.230
at decades prior what has changed about nutrition

00:44:53.230 --> 00:44:56.860
about again because we alluded to play sports

00:44:56.860 --> 00:45:00.760
etc activity of the the general population and

00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:03.500
then what has this uptick of obesity actually

00:45:03.500 --> 00:45:05.880
look like and and diabetes and these other diseases

00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:10.079
yeah so that what are the major contributing

00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:12.679
factors to type 2 diabetes and kind of what's

00:45:12.679 --> 00:45:21.579
changed um so my sense of what has changed is

00:45:21.579 --> 00:45:26.679
we've kind of come full circle back to um the

00:45:26.679 --> 00:45:30.199
importance of just maintaining a healthy body

00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:33.239
composition number one um there's been there's

00:45:33.239 --> 00:45:35.500
a lot of debate and i'm not sure on your podcast

00:45:35.500 --> 00:45:37.699
what kind of conversations you've had around

00:45:37.699 --> 00:45:40.480
this but gosh there was a there's a period there

00:45:40.480 --> 00:45:44.780
where the there was this hyper i mean okay there's

00:45:44.780 --> 00:45:47.639
a there can be a hyper fixation on sugar and

00:45:47.639 --> 00:45:51.059
don't get me wrong sugar excess of carbohydrate

00:45:51.059 --> 00:45:54.710
intake as as a part of it can absolutely be a

00:45:54.710 --> 00:45:57.110
part of and it almost always is a big part of

00:45:57.110 --> 00:45:58.730
the development of type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular

00:45:58.730 --> 00:46:03.289
disease that being said it's not the the the

00:46:03.289 --> 00:46:05.730
current understanding one that i a view that

00:46:05.730 --> 00:46:09.550
i have is that it it's not only about sugar it's

00:46:09.550 --> 00:46:12.889
not only it's never about any one thing um the

00:46:12.889 --> 00:46:16.949
what were the a big driver for a lot of health

00:46:16.949 --> 00:46:18.969
related variables just getting maintaining a

00:46:18.969 --> 00:46:21.889
healthy body composition and a big component

00:46:21.889 --> 00:46:27.070
of that relates to uh just fundamentals of energy

00:46:27.070 --> 00:46:29.369
balance you know we get to the really really

00:46:29.369 --> 00:46:31.769
basics of like thermodynamics as it applies to

00:46:31.769 --> 00:46:35.309
the human body energy in if it's in excessive

00:46:35.309 --> 00:46:39.369
of energy expended then there will be a net accumulation

00:46:39.369 --> 00:46:42.449
of body weight and unless there's a lot of strength

00:46:42.449 --> 00:46:44.150
training going on it's probably going to be body

00:46:44.150 --> 00:46:48.659
fat And that is the main driver from a physiological

00:46:48.659 --> 00:46:52.900
standpoint of multiple pathologies. And because

00:46:52.900 --> 00:46:54.940
of the inflammatory component of excess body

00:46:54.940 --> 00:46:57.880
fat and inflammatory component of certain foods

00:46:57.880 --> 00:47:02.099
that are commonly consumed to create that caloric

00:47:02.099 --> 00:47:06.780
surplus. So has that changed? None of that has

00:47:06.780 --> 00:47:11.679
really changed, but the focus on those fundamentals.

00:47:12.829 --> 00:47:14.670
has been kind of like shifting over time you

00:47:14.670 --> 00:47:17.389
know it's there's been lots of distractions with

00:47:17.389 --> 00:47:19.869
stuff both in the research world and certainly

00:47:19.869 --> 00:47:21.889
in the mainstream like consumption of it all

00:47:21.889 --> 00:47:26.789
culturally though like as far as external influences

00:47:26.789 --> 00:47:30.050
what is what are the factors school food fast

00:47:30.050 --> 00:47:32.670
food inactivity etc what are the factors that

00:47:32.670 --> 00:47:35.590
have changed where in the 50s and 60s americans

00:47:35.590 --> 00:47:39.019
were still very healthy Fast forward to the 80s,

00:47:39.019 --> 00:47:41.960
90s and where we are today. Now we've got 70

00:47:41.960 --> 00:47:45.019
% of the country is obese and 40 % or excuse

00:47:45.019 --> 00:47:48.360
me, 70 % are overweight and 40 % are obese. So

00:47:48.360 --> 00:47:50.800
environmentally, what are the changes that we

00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:53.980
need to identify and reverse to create an environment

00:47:53.980 --> 00:47:58.659
for health rather than disease? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:47:58.699 --> 00:48:00.659
The change in the environment is tough. I think

00:48:00.659 --> 00:48:04.679
at least on the. folks that I work with and talk

00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:09.039
to. And it's, it's just having a, an improved

00:48:09.039 --> 00:48:11.699
awareness of the environment that we're in. Um,

00:48:11.980 --> 00:48:14.300
you know, it's, we're in that quote, unquote,

00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:16.260
obesogenic environment. We're in an environment

00:48:16.260 --> 00:48:19.760
that where there's an abundance of food and,

00:48:19.780 --> 00:48:24.400
and, uh, and abundance of opportunity to move

00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:27.260
as little as possible, or that we're discouraged

00:48:27.260 --> 00:48:31.360
from movement and discouraged from work. And

00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:35.329
so. For me, I have to engineer that stuff into

00:48:35.329 --> 00:48:37.269
my life rather than just do it out of necessity.

00:48:38.489 --> 00:48:40.489
So that's something that's changed a lot. And

00:48:40.489 --> 00:48:41.869
then two, culturally, we already talked about

00:48:41.869 --> 00:48:46.250
a lot of it. Culturally, we're not really at

00:48:46.250 --> 00:48:53.230
a societal level funneled into a direction that

00:48:53.230 --> 00:48:56.889
promotes a lot of physical activity and call

00:48:56.889 --> 00:49:00.110
it balanced eating or eating in a manner that's...

00:49:00.539 --> 00:49:03.239
consistent with our physiological needs. We're

00:49:03.239 --> 00:49:05.139
certainly not really, we're not thinking about

00:49:05.139 --> 00:49:08.079
a lot of the other big movers like sleep or stress

00:49:08.079 --> 00:49:11.199
management, those which are also really huge

00:49:11.199 --> 00:49:16.980
pillars of health as well. And so, yeah, as far

00:49:16.980 --> 00:49:22.340
as how to affect change, the conversations around

00:49:22.340 --> 00:49:25.579
like societal level stuff, it gets me like, I

00:49:25.579 --> 00:49:27.590
guess maybe a little bit. anxious and easily

00:49:27.590 --> 00:49:29.690
depressed because it's hard to think about that

00:49:29.690 --> 00:49:34.170
but um that's such a big issue but on an individual

00:49:34.170 --> 00:49:36.230
level and in the in your small circles of influence

00:49:36.230 --> 00:49:38.510
which is what i try to operate in and that includes

00:49:38.510 --> 00:49:42.809
what would i do for a living um then again the

00:49:42.809 --> 00:49:44.909
awareness of our environment and being proactive

00:49:44.909 --> 00:49:48.090
about engineering those changes into your own

00:49:48.090 --> 00:49:50.170
life and it's into that and that has ripple effects

00:49:50.170 --> 00:49:53.760
on the family too right But so what does that

00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:56.239
look like? Well, for me, train exercises are

00:49:56.239 --> 00:49:57.699
non -negotiable. It's the first thing I do when

00:49:57.699 --> 00:50:01.440
I wake up every morning. And sometimes it's twice

00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:03.659
a day when I have time. In fact, I worked out

00:50:03.659 --> 00:50:05.340
this morning at 830. And when you and I are done,

00:50:05.440 --> 00:50:07.800
I'm going to use the daylight we got left to

00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:11.619
go knock out some track type interval running

00:50:11.619 --> 00:50:13.340
workout right here on the street. I would just

00:50:13.340 --> 00:50:14.820
run up and down my street over and over again

00:50:14.820 --> 00:50:18.119
for my 400 meter repeats. Yes, my neighbors think

00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:22.440
I'm crazy. But, and then, yeah, it just takes

00:50:22.440 --> 00:50:25.199
being measured with your nutrition and all of

00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:27.940
that good stuff. So yeah. And it's, at the end

00:50:27.940 --> 00:50:30.800
of the day, it's, it's an education problem.

00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:33.139
I think not so much of like, we know that excess

00:50:33.139 --> 00:50:35.820
calorie intake is, is bad. I don't mean education

00:50:35.820 --> 00:50:37.420
in that sense, but education with individuals

00:50:37.420 --> 00:50:41.380
that we work with. Okay. Like what are some habits

00:50:41.380 --> 00:50:43.599
when it comes to education? It's like habit formation

00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:46.760
and lifestyle change that are actually going

00:50:46.760 --> 00:50:51.940
to become. And become something that we can build

00:50:51.940 --> 00:50:55.460
a lifestyle around. I've said this on here many

00:50:55.460 --> 00:50:59.619
times. What really made me angry was we had no

00:50:59.619 --> 00:51:02.039
better opportunity to finally turn this around

00:51:02.039 --> 00:51:04.909
than COVID. You know, here's this virus that

00:51:04.909 --> 00:51:07.130
sweeps through. It's, you know, unless you're

00:51:07.130 --> 00:51:10.230
a complete denier, it's very evident that if

00:51:10.230 --> 00:51:12.849
you are obese, if you are a smoker, if you have

00:51:12.849 --> 00:51:15.789
pre -existing conditions, you are much, much

00:51:15.789 --> 00:51:18.969
more likely to die from the virus than if you

00:51:18.969 --> 00:51:20.929
are a healthy person that's exercising and eating

00:51:20.929 --> 00:51:23.659
well and getting outside. And we had a captive

00:51:23.659 --> 00:51:27.420
audience for a year plus where you could have

00:51:27.420 --> 00:51:29.780
put all kinds of information out there. You could

00:51:29.780 --> 00:51:32.039
have revisited what we serve in our schools,

00:51:32.239 --> 00:51:36.239
bolstered PE programs, given incentives to local

00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:39.800
farmers to create organic food again. And none

00:51:39.800 --> 00:51:43.460
of that was done. So we had the perfect opportunity

00:51:43.460 --> 00:51:46.699
to make a huge dent, which spanned both political

00:51:46.699 --> 00:51:49.019
sides of the aisle as well, to be very clear.

00:51:49.219 --> 00:51:51.880
And nothing was done. So I think this is a...

00:51:52.250 --> 00:51:54.829
such a huge disservice because we have created

00:51:54.829 --> 00:51:57.429
an environment, as you mentioned, for ill health.

00:51:57.550 --> 00:52:01.369
It sets you up for failure unless, you know,

00:52:01.389 --> 00:52:03.190
you have the kind of upbringing like I did where

00:52:03.190 --> 00:52:05.670
you grew up on a farm and therefore you had that

00:52:05.670 --> 00:52:07.969
baseline before you kind of found yourself in

00:52:07.969 --> 00:52:10.289
modern society. Everyone else, if they've grown

00:52:10.289 --> 00:52:12.969
up and processed food and, you know, TV dinners

00:52:12.969 --> 00:52:15.429
and fast food is your norm and you don't have

00:52:15.429 --> 00:52:18.269
to do PE anymore, you know, I mean, we've created

00:52:18.269 --> 00:52:21.059
such a terrible environment, but then... factors

00:52:21.059 --> 00:52:23.539
into you know military recruitment first responder

00:52:23.539 --> 00:52:27.460
recruitment so um this you know there was an

00:52:27.460 --> 00:52:29.300
opportunity is what i'm saying and we completely

00:52:29.300 --> 00:52:32.400
blew it yeah i don't disagree with that at all

00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:34.639
in fact i strongly agree and you're reminding

00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:37.820
me of one of the greater phases of frustration

00:52:37.820 --> 00:52:40.500
that i had there were many as a university professor

00:52:40.500 --> 00:52:44.900
but it was um you know i was running a lab with

00:52:44.900 --> 00:52:47.300
the expressed purpose it was like in our mission

00:52:47.300 --> 00:52:49.739
statement on the door of the lab basically it

00:52:49.739 --> 00:52:52.500
was prevention and treatment of chronic diseases.

00:52:53.079 --> 00:52:54.920
And all the stuff that everybody was dying from

00:52:54.920 --> 00:52:58.159
during COVID, I had spent my entire career researching,

00:52:58.300 --> 00:53:01.699
you know, how to stop those things. And the frustration,

00:53:01.860 --> 00:53:04.280
the frustrating thing was that we, when we were

00:53:04.280 --> 00:53:07.880
doing the return from COVID, the university,

00:53:08.019 --> 00:53:11.260
and in some ways I understand the abundance of

00:53:11.260 --> 00:53:12.940
caution here, but they just like would not let

00:53:12.940 --> 00:53:15.820
our studies proceed because of, it's impossible

00:53:15.820 --> 00:53:17.760
to do an exercise study and be socially distanced.

00:53:18.239 --> 00:53:22.099
And, you know, capturing spit in a plastic tube,

00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:25.320
you know, in a metabolic lab was not exactly,

00:53:25.380 --> 00:53:29.920
you know, deemed favorable during the midst of

00:53:29.920 --> 00:53:32.699
a worldwide pandemic that we'd never seen before.

00:53:32.920 --> 00:53:37.420
But like we had absolutely had opportunities

00:53:37.420 --> 00:53:41.119
to make progress there that absolutely were missed

00:53:41.119 --> 00:53:45.539
for sure. Just before we go into rapid, you touched

00:53:45.539 --> 00:53:48.960
on the word sleep, which is my trigger word,

00:53:49.019 --> 00:53:51.260
because I come from a profession that's probably

00:53:51.260 --> 00:53:55.280
the most overworked, underslept population, but

00:53:55.280 --> 00:53:58.099
also responds to everyone's worst day. It's the

00:53:58.099 --> 00:54:01.739
most insane, you know, double edged sword, if

00:54:01.739 --> 00:54:04.280
you like. Talk to me about your perspective.

00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:06.420
You mentioned it as far as a pillar of health,

00:54:06.500 --> 00:54:09.400
as far as sleep and performance. If you study

00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:11.360
that at all with the athletes and then sleep

00:54:11.360 --> 00:54:14.650
and, you know, um chronic health like the the

00:54:14.650 --> 00:54:18.610
longevity yeah um it's more the second one that

00:54:18.610 --> 00:54:21.429
i would say i've worked with the most is sleep

00:54:21.429 --> 00:54:26.369
and just general health uh but can speak a bit

00:54:26.369 --> 00:54:29.570
to the to the first on performance but uh oh

00:54:29.570 --> 00:54:33.130
gosh it's it underpins almost everything so i

00:54:33.130 --> 00:54:35.789
always if you think of the three big pillars

00:54:35.789 --> 00:54:40.530
uh sleep nutrition and exercise in my opinion

00:54:41.179 --> 00:54:43.420
And I'm an exercise guy. I'm trained as exercise

00:54:43.420 --> 00:54:45.360
physiologist. I'm all about the fitness stuff.

00:54:46.300 --> 00:54:49.920
But I would put exercise as a distant third place

00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:52.380
to the first two. And I can never really pin

00:54:52.380 --> 00:54:54.780
down whether sleep and nutrition that are most

00:54:54.780 --> 00:54:57.780
important. But they're both absolutely critical.

00:54:57.900 --> 00:54:59.440
I think it depends. I think the answer to that

00:54:59.440 --> 00:55:00.960
is wherever it is that you have the greatest

00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:04.980
need is the most important for you. But like

00:55:04.980 --> 00:55:07.849
for me, my sleep, not because of... um line of

00:55:07.849 --> 00:55:09.949
duty or anything not certainly not professionally

00:55:09.949 --> 00:55:15.510
but just for lack of uh well we cannot be perfect

00:55:15.510 --> 00:55:19.789
right uh my sleep is a disaster uh it it's gotten

00:55:19.789 --> 00:55:21.369
a lot better it's got a lot better in the last

00:55:21.369 --> 00:55:22.989
two years as i've been more aware of it but before

00:55:22.989 --> 00:55:24.869
that it was just something i was like yeah i'll

00:55:24.869 --> 00:55:26.170
sleep when you're dead kind of like you know

00:55:26.170 --> 00:55:28.230
nose of the grindstone work hard that kind of

00:55:28.230 --> 00:55:30.710
thing and that's also i run into that a lot in

00:55:30.710 --> 00:55:35.650
my uh with my clients um oh goodness what doesn't

00:55:35.650 --> 00:55:38.510
it affect it we talked you talked about neurodegenerative

00:55:38.510 --> 00:55:41.050
diseases it's one of the major mechanisms for

00:55:41.050 --> 00:55:44.769
either being susceptible to or resilient against

00:55:44.769 --> 00:55:49.250
that any measure of cognitive function cognitive

00:55:49.250 --> 00:55:52.269
performance is going to be affected by sleep

00:55:52.269 --> 00:56:00.119
metabolic health is many of our hormonal pulses

00:56:00.119 --> 00:56:01.480
throughout the day and throughout the night are

00:56:01.480 --> 00:56:04.860
governed by or essentially operate on a circadian

00:56:04.860 --> 00:56:07.920
rhythm type of cycle and that is completely driven

00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:13.440
by sleep and sleep and sleep and awakeness and

00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:17.079
so in this disturbances and that can have real

00:56:17.079 --> 00:56:21.639
and profound metabolic effects so and regulation

00:56:21.639 --> 00:56:23.780
of inflammation so sleeping is one of the the

00:56:23.780 --> 00:56:27.559
one of if not the most anti -inflammatory physiological

00:56:27.559 --> 00:56:30.139
states that we're ever in in our lives and so

00:56:30.139 --> 00:56:35.139
when we lose that then we create a pro -inflammatory

00:56:35.139 --> 00:56:38.599
environment essentially so yeah it's it's huge

00:56:38.599 --> 00:56:41.699
it's huge absolutely which is why i think sadly

00:56:41.699 --> 00:56:43.179
you know it's the elephant in the room or the

00:56:43.179 --> 00:56:45.699
herd of elephants as i say with first responders

00:56:45.699 --> 00:56:47.900
and we die of everything so it's like well if

00:56:47.900 --> 00:56:50.099
you're not sleeping it's just going to amplify

00:56:50.099 --> 00:56:53.019
whatever the weakest link is in your chain yeah

00:56:53.019 --> 00:56:54.780
and i don't know the solution to that i mean

00:56:54.780 --> 00:56:57.710
are you talking Particularly people who are on

00:56:57.710 --> 00:57:01.409
shift work, it's something to just kind of be

00:57:01.409 --> 00:57:06.269
aware of. And I'm not an expert on how to optimize

00:57:06.269 --> 00:57:11.969
sleep for those individuals. That's a large part

00:57:11.969 --> 00:57:15.789
of your audience, I understand. The short answer

00:57:15.789 --> 00:57:19.809
is I'm a big fan of napping when it's needed

00:57:19.809 --> 00:57:22.750
and to just optimize sleep hygiene within your

00:57:22.750 --> 00:57:27.070
constraints. whenever you have the opportunity

00:57:27.070 --> 00:57:29.730
to sleep, take it and, and maximize it and do

00:57:29.730 --> 00:57:32.409
all the things that you can do to optimize it

00:57:32.409 --> 00:57:35.110
for what it is for sure. Yeah. Well, but the

00:57:35.110 --> 00:57:36.710
fire service is scheduled. I mean, they work

00:57:36.710 --> 00:57:39.610
56 hours a week, you know, they're understaffed

00:57:39.610 --> 00:57:41.510
because as I alluded to, people don't want to

00:57:41.510 --> 00:57:43.849
do this job anymore. So now they're filling in

00:57:43.849 --> 00:57:45.769
vacancies. Now it's an eight year work week.

00:57:45.789 --> 00:57:48.429
So. The way we can make a massive dent is to

00:57:48.429 --> 00:57:50.010
actually give them the rest and recovery between

00:57:50.010 --> 00:57:52.650
each shift, the 72 -hour period that we need

00:57:52.650 --> 00:57:55.070
to get as close to baseline as you can, having

00:57:55.070 --> 00:57:58.550
been awake when everyone else is asleep. But

00:57:58.550 --> 00:58:01.090
instead, we have them working twice as many hours

00:58:01.090 --> 00:58:03.590
as the person in the grocery store. So it's insane.

00:58:04.530 --> 00:58:06.789
So as you mentioned, you were in the academic

00:58:06.789 --> 00:58:10.230
space for a long time. What made you go into

00:58:10.230 --> 00:58:12.949
rapid health optimization? And then let's start

00:58:12.949 --> 00:58:18.829
talking about what you guys offer. Sure. So what

00:58:18.829 --> 00:58:21.570
may we link up with rapid? Well, as I mentioned,

00:58:21.670 --> 00:58:25.590
I think I mentioned this earlier, I was a professor

00:58:25.590 --> 00:58:28.510
for quite a long time. And then about halfway

00:58:28.510 --> 00:58:31.210
through that part of my career, I started nutrition

00:58:31.210 --> 00:58:36.829
coaching just as a kind of a hobby is how I used

00:58:36.829 --> 00:58:40.030
to always describe it. I would work with clients.

00:58:40.110 --> 00:58:43.510
It was all via email online. in the evenings

00:58:43.510 --> 00:58:46.449
rather than like watch television. When I started

00:58:46.449 --> 00:58:47.889
coaching, I would tell the story. When I started

00:58:47.889 --> 00:58:50.750
coaching, I was in the middle of the Game of

00:58:50.750 --> 00:58:53.329
Thrones, I think season four or five. And then

00:58:53.329 --> 00:58:56.409
I immediately replaced that time with coaching

00:58:56.409 --> 00:58:59.630
and then I've never finished the series. So,

00:58:59.710 --> 00:59:02.710
and I'm fine for that. I didn't really need to

00:59:02.710 --> 00:59:08.130
pick that up again. But then that led to, so

00:59:08.130 --> 00:59:09.710
this is the story of the exodus from academia.

00:59:11.679 --> 00:59:14.440
That job started off with five to 10 clients

00:59:14.440 --> 00:59:17.920
initially, and then eventually around peak post

00:59:17.920 --> 00:59:20.079
-COVID when there was that greater awareness,

00:59:20.260 --> 00:59:22.699
I had over 100, the most I ever had was around

00:59:22.699 --> 00:59:25.900
150 clients, which was, that was like too many.

00:59:25.980 --> 00:59:27.280
I started missing emails and making mistakes.

00:59:28.599 --> 00:59:32.239
Scaled that back a bit, but still had a, you

00:59:32.239 --> 00:59:34.280
know, call it give or take 100, 120 clients.

00:59:35.099 --> 00:59:37.659
uh right around the time my son was born three

00:59:37.659 --> 00:59:40.059
years ago in spring of 2022 and i just couldn't

00:59:40.059 --> 00:59:43.739
keep that going okay so uh went all in on the

00:59:43.739 --> 00:59:47.000
coaching and then kind of uh over the next couple

00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:49.880
years would pick up various kind of like consulting

00:59:49.880 --> 00:59:53.340
things here and there and i would always just

00:59:53.340 --> 00:59:55.119
kind of have an eye on what else what people

00:59:55.119 --> 00:59:59.639
were looking for what they needed and uh dr andy

00:59:59.639 --> 01:00:03.000
galpin one of the founders of of rapid. And now

01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:06.559
my, one of my two bosses, um, he posted on his

01:00:06.559 --> 01:00:10.300
Instagram, Hey, we're looking for somebody with

01:00:10.300 --> 01:00:13.639
this expertise to do some, um, some coaching

01:00:13.639 --> 01:00:16.079
and consulting for us. And so I, I hit him up

01:00:16.079 --> 01:00:19.579
and Andy and I had known each other 15 years

01:00:19.579 --> 01:00:21.539
or so we had gone to grad school at the same

01:00:21.539 --> 01:00:23.340
time. I was at the university of Maryland when

01:00:23.340 --> 01:00:26.539
he was at ball state. And, um, we had a lot of

01:00:26.539 --> 01:00:28.239
parallels in the ways that we would think about

01:00:28.239 --> 01:00:30.039
physiology. He's a muscle physiologist. I'm a

01:00:30.039 --> 01:00:32.420
vascular physiologist. So we didn't do work on

01:00:32.420 --> 01:00:35.440
the same kinds of things, but like our, our approach

01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:38.300
to physiology in general was similar. And I always

01:00:38.300 --> 01:00:40.760
liked his work and he had done super well with

01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:43.780
when one thing Andy's done extremely well is

01:00:43.780 --> 01:00:47.739
communicate science on social media and to, to

01:00:47.739 --> 01:00:50.739
the general public, to the masses in a very effective

01:00:50.739 --> 01:00:53.559
way as somebody that's working in the academic

01:00:53.559 --> 01:00:56.349
space, which is. That's a rare and difficult

01:00:56.349 --> 01:00:59.630
thing to do. And so anyway, I was like, oh, Andy's

01:00:59.630 --> 01:01:01.909
looking for somebody. Let me talk to him. And

01:01:01.909 --> 01:01:05.150
so I got on with Rapid. This was early last year.

01:01:05.650 --> 01:01:08.070
Started doing some consulting work for them.

01:01:08.150 --> 01:01:11.929
And it's similar but different role in April.

01:01:12.630 --> 01:01:14.989
It was last fall, about a year ago now, that

01:01:14.989 --> 01:01:17.050
I started the transition to my current role,

01:01:17.150 --> 01:01:20.130
which is, again, is the labs guy, the labs analyst,

01:01:20.369 --> 01:01:25.739
which my other boss, Dan Garner, that's his domain,

01:01:25.900 --> 01:01:27.639
his, his bread and butter. He was the original

01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:29.860
labs and he still is the, the, the head of that.

01:01:30.139 --> 01:01:33.300
Uh, but he's doing less work with the clients

01:01:33.300 --> 01:01:35.219
in the day to day and doing more like higher

01:01:35.219 --> 01:01:37.639
level business things. And so he's, he was looking

01:01:37.639 --> 01:01:40.960
for somebody to, to step in and do that so that

01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:43.500
he, so that he could, um, do work on the business.

01:01:44.139 --> 01:01:46.000
And so I was like, yeah, Hey, I would love to,

01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:47.780
to do that. I think I've got the right background

01:01:47.780 --> 01:01:49.139
for it with the, you know, with all the physiology

01:01:49.139 --> 01:01:51.800
and everything and the educational piece too.

01:01:52.619 --> 01:01:55.480
And so, yeah, it's been since February that I've

01:01:55.480 --> 01:02:00.219
been in the role. And the role is screening each

01:02:00.219 --> 01:02:03.960
client's blood work, urine, stool, and saliva.

01:02:05.780 --> 01:02:10.039
We look at somewhere around 500 biomarkers for

01:02:10.039 --> 01:02:14.159
their biggest physiological constraints. And

01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:17.159
another way we describe them is performance anchors.

01:02:17.159 --> 01:02:21.500
So a physiological system can only perform. to

01:02:21.500 --> 01:02:24.179
the extent that it's constrained. And so rather

01:02:24.179 --> 01:02:29.820
than try to make somebody a super high -charged

01:02:29.820 --> 01:02:32.980
athlete with crazy supplementation, which supplementation

01:02:32.980 --> 01:02:36.159
has a role for sure, but the approach that we

01:02:36.159 --> 01:02:37.679
take is like, all right, what is holding this

01:02:37.679 --> 01:02:40.880
person back from living up to their true physiological

01:02:40.880 --> 01:02:45.739
potential, as we call it? And I do that from

01:02:45.739 --> 01:02:48.300
the hidden side of things. That's all the biomarker

01:02:48.300 --> 01:02:50.019
work. So for a lot of folks, it's something to

01:02:50.019 --> 01:02:53.019
do with gut health. It may be the inflammatory

01:02:53.019 --> 01:02:56.059
story, which those two tend to go hand in hand

01:02:56.059 --> 01:03:00.159
for sure. It's different for each person. Micronutrient

01:03:00.159 --> 01:03:04.380
status is a big thing. Lipid profile, you name

01:03:04.380 --> 01:03:08.440
it. Toxic burden. whatever it is. So we do quite

01:03:08.440 --> 01:03:13.300
an array of testing to get as complete a picture

01:03:13.300 --> 01:03:16.719
for each client as we can. When it comes to gut

01:03:16.719 --> 01:03:21.179
biome, that's one that I haven't found the perfect

01:03:21.179 --> 01:03:23.800
supplement yet to really make. I'd actually say

01:03:23.800 --> 01:03:27.619
there was one I had, what was it called? Body

01:03:27.619 --> 01:03:29.940
Health had one called Gut Restore that I found

01:03:29.940 --> 01:03:33.380
actually worked quite well. But what do you normally

01:03:33.380 --> 01:03:36.460
suggest? Obviously, I would say it's out of whack

01:03:36.460 --> 01:03:38.360
is not a very technical term. What's wrong with

01:03:38.360 --> 01:03:41.219
which gut bacteria and which one is dominant?

01:03:41.380 --> 01:03:45.159
But as a general rule, what are some of the pre

01:03:45.159 --> 01:03:48.500
-probiotics that you would suggest or use to

01:03:48.500 --> 01:03:51.099
get someone's gut health to move towards normal

01:03:51.099 --> 01:03:54.860
again? Well, first and foremost, we take a food

01:03:54.860 --> 01:03:58.860
-forward approach, meaning, yes, there will be

01:03:58.860 --> 01:04:01.889
supplements to answer your question. biggest

01:04:01.889 --> 01:04:03.989
lever to pull when it comes to gut health is

01:04:03.989 --> 01:04:08.090
just eat more fiber um and that's what the the

01:04:08.090 --> 01:04:11.309
the beneficial bacteria in the gut actually need

01:04:11.309 --> 01:04:15.289
and and use to do a process called fermentation

01:04:15.289 --> 01:04:17.789
uh where they when they ferment they produce

01:04:17.789 --> 01:04:21.110
something called butyrate and among other among

01:04:21.110 --> 01:04:22.949
other things but the butyrate producing bacteria

01:04:22.949 --> 01:04:27.190
they need the fiber to to do that and it's the

01:04:27.190 --> 01:04:31.139
um that butyrate turns out to be the major fuel

01:04:31.139 --> 01:04:33.900
source for the colonocytes the cells that line

01:04:33.900 --> 01:04:39.199
the inner wall of our intestine and when gut

01:04:39.199 --> 01:04:42.019
health is there's a dysbiosis which is a fancy

01:04:42.019 --> 01:04:44.599
word for when there's an imbalance in the gut

01:04:44.599 --> 01:04:48.840
microbiome there's either too few or too little

01:04:48.840 --> 01:04:50.840
activity of the good guys of the commensal bacteria

01:04:50.840 --> 01:04:53.980
and an overabundance of the bad guys the potentially

01:04:53.980 --> 01:04:58.000
pathogenic and opportunistic bacteria when that

01:04:58.000 --> 01:05:01.869
happens then there's essentially a lack of fuel

01:05:01.869 --> 01:05:05.050
availability for the cells that line the inner

01:05:05.050 --> 01:05:07.230
wall. And lack of fuel availability, just like

01:05:07.230 --> 01:05:10.269
in any other cell of the body, is a state of

01:05:10.269 --> 01:05:13.250
cellular distress. And that's one of the root

01:05:13.250 --> 01:05:16.909
causes of inflammation in the gut. And it turns

01:05:16.909 --> 01:05:20.949
out that 70 % of the immune cells in the body

01:05:20.949 --> 01:05:25.329
are housed in the GI tract, which is a wild statistic.

01:05:25.590 --> 01:05:30.420
Some studies suggest up to 80%. And so going

01:05:30.420 --> 01:05:33.320
back to answer your question, what's the best

01:05:33.320 --> 01:05:35.699
way to move the needle in all these things? Again,

01:05:35.800 --> 01:05:41.320
eat more fibers. The target for men is somewhere

01:05:41.320 --> 01:05:44.380
in the ballpark of 30 to 35 grams of fiber per

01:05:44.380 --> 01:05:46.639
day. I think the average intake is under 10.

01:05:47.059 --> 01:05:49.739
So that's a big lever to pull right there. We

01:05:49.739 --> 01:05:52.880
can go a long way to restoring microbial balance

01:05:52.880 --> 01:05:56.639
and addressing GI symptoms just by that. leafy

01:05:56.639 --> 01:05:59.300
green vegetables, various colors of all the vegetables,

01:05:59.480 --> 01:06:03.820
and maybe a fiber supplement to start of getting

01:06:03.820 --> 01:06:09.019
that target is difficult just from food sources.

01:06:10.119 --> 01:06:12.440
But then there's other supplements that help

01:06:12.440 --> 01:06:15.820
quite a bit. Glutamine is a go -to, and that

01:06:15.820 --> 01:06:19.119
is something that will support the mucosal lining

01:06:19.119 --> 01:06:25.900
of the gut. uh integrity of the of the gut barrier

01:06:25.900 --> 01:06:28.360
is the glutamine is a big part of that and that

01:06:28.360 --> 01:06:31.960
can be calming and soothing and then um the rest

01:06:31.960 --> 01:06:35.239
of it it depends on other what other findings

01:06:35.239 --> 01:06:37.480
we might have besides like a dysregulated gut

01:06:37.480 --> 01:06:42.340
microbiome or any kind of gi health issues there's

01:06:42.340 --> 01:06:44.000
certain targeted supplements that kind of go

01:06:44.000 --> 01:06:46.900
along with different issues so for example if

01:06:46.900 --> 01:06:50.139
somebody's got elevations in blood glucose which

01:06:50.139 --> 01:06:54.739
tend to cluster with a distressed GI system,

01:06:54.840 --> 01:06:58.940
and especially with dysbiosis, then a product

01:06:58.940 --> 01:07:02.480
called berberine is a go -to that's got antimicrobial

01:07:02.480 --> 01:07:05.320
effects and some insulin sensitizing effects

01:07:05.320 --> 01:07:10.880
can help with blood glucose regulation and homeostatic

01:07:10.880 --> 01:07:13.460
control. So that's just a couple of supplements.

01:07:13.659 --> 01:07:17.289
There's others, but yeah. You mentioned also,

01:07:17.329 --> 01:07:19.630
I think you say toxic load. Is that the term

01:07:19.630 --> 01:07:24.090
you used? So people listening, we are absolutely

01:07:24.090 --> 01:07:27.510
dripping in all things carcinogenic. So what

01:07:27.510 --> 01:07:30.150
are the analyses that you do on those and what

01:07:30.150 --> 01:07:32.210
are some of the effective methods of removing

01:07:32.210 --> 01:07:35.409
the metals and some of these horrendous things

01:07:35.409 --> 01:07:38.190
that we find ourselves exposed to? Sure. The

01:07:38.190 --> 01:07:41.829
ones that pop up the most on the screens that

01:07:41.829 --> 01:07:45.820
we do are And before I get into it, I should

01:07:45.820 --> 01:07:47.480
say that these are the ones where the evidence

01:07:47.480 --> 01:07:49.960
isn't quite as strong in the sense that there's

01:07:49.960 --> 01:07:52.400
not like really clear diagnostic criteria. And

01:07:52.400 --> 01:07:54.900
the science on these is good enough for us to

01:07:54.900 --> 01:08:00.239
include in our analyses, but we're not as confident

01:08:00.239 --> 01:08:03.380
as maybe like some of the blood markers that

01:08:03.380 --> 01:08:05.280
are really cut and dry and clear. So there's

01:08:05.280 --> 01:08:08.400
that caveat. But that being said, see a lot of

01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:12.539
folks flagging for elevations in metabolites.

01:08:13.019 --> 01:08:17.060
of mtbe which is uh basically an organic compound

01:08:17.060 --> 01:08:21.899
that is found in gasoline and is environmental

01:08:21.899 --> 01:08:25.020
pollutant basically and the other would be metabolites

01:08:25.020 --> 01:08:28.300
of styrene which comes from plastics and these

01:08:28.300 --> 01:08:30.779
are these can be problematic for multiple reasons

01:08:30.779 --> 01:08:34.039
but they just if nothing else they put strain

01:08:34.039 --> 01:08:37.619
and stress on our body's detoxification pathways

01:08:37.619 --> 01:08:41.170
particularly liver detoxification And that's

01:08:41.170 --> 01:08:47.109
a big drain on the glutathione system. Glutathione

01:08:47.109 --> 01:08:50.409
is really important for a lot of things in the

01:08:50.409 --> 01:08:52.630
body. Mitochondrial function is their most powerful

01:08:52.630 --> 01:08:57.130
antioxidant in the body, or among the most powerful.

01:08:57.449 --> 01:09:01.329
And so that can lead to other problems when present,

01:09:01.409 --> 01:09:04.649
which they often are, like, again, dealing with

01:09:04.649 --> 01:09:09.069
inflammation and cardiovascular support and so

01:09:09.069 --> 01:09:13.140
forth. Whenever we, what we do with my approach

01:09:13.140 --> 01:09:17.739
to dealing with toxic load is not, well, if it's

01:09:17.739 --> 01:09:19.680
styrene, that's an easy one. Most of the time

01:09:19.680 --> 01:09:21.039
people are heating up their food in plastics.

01:09:22.319 --> 01:09:26.079
And so we just switch everything to glass. Don't

01:09:26.079 --> 01:09:28.380
need to make a big deal about it, but highly

01:09:28.380 --> 01:09:32.699
recommend using glass storage for food containers.

01:09:33.180 --> 01:09:35.159
And if you're going to reheat food in the microwave,

01:09:35.300 --> 01:09:38.539
do it in glass, not plastic. And then two, with

01:09:38.539 --> 01:09:40.079
the organic solvent stuff, I mean, that could

01:09:40.079 --> 01:09:42.060
be something as simple as you pump gas on your

01:09:42.060 --> 01:09:43.760
way to the clinic when you got your blood draw

01:09:43.760 --> 01:09:47.180
done. And or if you live in an urban environment

01:09:47.180 --> 01:09:51.319
or occupationally, if you're out in a, it's been

01:09:51.319 --> 01:09:53.840
a lot of time in a police car or in a fire truck

01:09:53.840 --> 01:09:57.060
or in a fire station, it's going to be difficult

01:09:57.060 --> 01:09:59.680
to avoid the exposure. But what we can do is

01:09:59.680 --> 01:10:01.739
shore up our body's defenses against that. So

01:10:01.739 --> 01:10:04.460
we supplement with. either glutathione directly.

01:10:04.699 --> 01:10:06.180
There's certain products out there that do a

01:10:06.180 --> 01:10:08.159
good job with that, but a better approach a lot

01:10:08.159 --> 01:10:11.260
of times is a product called N -acetylcysteine.

01:10:11.500 --> 01:10:13.539
It's a precursor to glutathione. It gets converted

01:10:13.539 --> 01:10:15.640
to glutathione in the body very readily, very

01:10:15.640 --> 01:10:17.520
effectively. And so we just kind of run people

01:10:17.520 --> 01:10:20.000
through, usually it's about a month or so of

01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:25.140
supplementation to specifically promote excretion

01:10:25.140 --> 01:10:31.199
through those pathways. There's obviously a spectrum.

01:10:33.160 --> 01:10:35.260
target audiences when it comes to this technology.

01:10:35.439 --> 01:10:37.000
I think it's very exciting. I was talking to

01:10:37.000 --> 01:10:41.659
Josh Clemente from Levels about the autonomy

01:10:41.659 --> 01:10:45.420
that this blood work and apps and coaching can

01:10:45.420 --> 01:10:48.420
give an individual so they're not finding out

01:10:48.420 --> 01:10:50.300
how they're doing every year when they go to

01:10:50.300 --> 01:10:53.380
a doctor, that they can have this ongoing ownership

01:10:53.380 --> 01:10:56.920
of their own health. What are the kind of groups

01:10:56.920 --> 01:10:59.909
that you're kind of helping with this. You've

01:10:59.909 --> 01:11:03.890
got obviously the billionaires and the bespoke

01:11:03.890 --> 01:11:06.609
ones that they have. I know Levels is all the

01:11:06.609 --> 01:11:09.949
way down to like $40 a month, for example. What

01:11:09.949 --> 01:11:13.569
is that group that you guys are helping? Historically,

01:11:13.609 --> 01:11:21.229
it's been that very high net worth. It began,

01:11:21.470 --> 01:11:23.289
as I understand it, before I was with the company,

01:11:23.350 --> 01:11:27.829
but primarily with elite athletes. that dan and

01:11:27.829 --> 01:11:29.430
andy would be working with and they just started

01:11:29.430 --> 01:11:32.050
scaling up that service from the elite you know

01:11:32.050 --> 01:11:36.270
the ufc fighters nfl major league baseball golfers

01:11:36.270 --> 01:11:41.850
they started scaling that up but to not to athletes

01:11:41.850 --> 01:11:44.229
but to like executive people of similar you know

01:11:44.229 --> 01:11:49.989
financial means honestly and then um that's most

01:11:49.989 --> 01:11:52.210
of the clientele in the company is is still kind

01:11:52.210 --> 01:11:56.239
of that group um There are different tiers where

01:11:56.239 --> 01:11:58.560
it's not necessarily the ultra, ultra expensive,

01:11:58.739 --> 01:12:03.840
but still quite expensive packages. But the newest

01:12:03.840 --> 01:12:06.239
one that if you don't mind that I'll mention

01:12:06.239 --> 01:12:08.460
is something called, we're calling Optima Muscle.

01:12:09.020 --> 01:12:11.920
And I have to say, I'm personally not all that

01:12:11.920 --> 01:12:15.319
involved in this program, but I can speak to

01:12:15.319 --> 01:12:19.060
it a little bit. It's essentially the thesis

01:12:19.060 --> 01:12:22.079
of it is, the essence of the idea of the offering

01:12:22.079 --> 01:12:27.579
is that Muscle, having muscle on your frame,

01:12:27.659 --> 01:12:30.060
the extent to which you do or do not is a major

01:12:30.060 --> 01:12:34.539
determinant of longevity and not just longevity,

01:12:34.640 --> 01:12:38.840
but like quality of life and also the susceptibility

01:12:38.840 --> 01:12:41.140
or lack thereof to disease. So everything we've

01:12:41.140 --> 01:12:44.060
been talking about is having more muscle mass

01:12:44.060 --> 01:12:48.829
is and functional muscle mass as well is. It

01:12:48.829 --> 01:12:51.310
turns out to be highly anti -inflammatory. If

01:12:51.310 --> 01:12:53.510
inflammation is a concern, it's great for function.

01:12:53.609 --> 01:12:56.569
It's great for quality of life and the ability

01:12:56.569 --> 01:12:58.350
to do things like play, like we were talking

01:12:58.350 --> 01:13:04.449
about before. And so the way it works is clients

01:13:04.449 --> 01:13:08.390
will get an MRI scan, actually working with a

01:13:08.390 --> 01:13:13.649
company called Springbok. And this MRI scan assesses.

01:13:14.079 --> 01:13:15.579
I don't think it's quite every single muscle

01:13:15.579 --> 01:13:17.979
in the body, but near as much as every single

01:13:17.979 --> 01:13:24.060
muscle in the body. And looks at size of each

01:13:24.060 --> 01:13:28.680
muscle relative to population norms. For myself,

01:13:29.020 --> 01:13:33.560
middle -aged, 40 -something -year -old average

01:13:33.560 --> 01:13:38.180
white guy, how do I stack up in that group? And

01:13:38.180 --> 01:13:40.359
then also, one of the cool things it looks at

01:13:40.359 --> 01:13:43.810
is relative imbalances and asymmetries. And then

01:13:43.810 --> 01:13:46.310
so clients will be given and have the opportunity

01:13:46.310 --> 01:13:47.909
to work with a coach, I think if they want to,

01:13:47.989 --> 01:13:54.869
on an individualized training plan to address

01:13:54.869 --> 01:13:57.970
whatever that analysis is. And I don't know,

01:13:58.050 --> 01:14:01.840
I'm not here to necessarily, totally. promoting

01:14:01.840 --> 01:14:03.979
on making people aware of it. But to the point,

01:14:04.000 --> 01:14:05.380
I don't know, I don't know pricing structure.

01:14:05.460 --> 01:14:07.579
I don't know any of that kind of stuff. Uh, but

01:14:07.579 --> 01:14:09.020
I would say the folks are interested in that.

01:14:09.039 --> 01:14:11.399
I would just do a Google search for rapid health

01:14:11.399 --> 01:14:14.779
optimization .com. And that program's due to

01:14:14.779 --> 01:14:18.560
be launched here in the next few weeks. Um, and,

01:14:18.579 --> 01:14:20.479
uh, that information will be on that website

01:14:20.479 --> 01:14:24.619
in the near future. So I know you've worked with

01:14:24.619 --> 01:14:26.739
elite athletes and also, as you mentioned, a

01:14:26.739 --> 01:14:29.100
lot of people in the corporate space, you hear

01:14:29.100 --> 01:14:32.159
the phrase, you know, that, that, the wealthy

01:14:32.159 --> 01:14:35.779
spent the first half of their life accruing wealth

01:14:35.779 --> 01:14:38.560
and then the second half spending it trying to

01:14:38.560 --> 01:14:41.079
get their health back. What is your perspective

01:14:41.079 --> 01:14:44.960
on that? Oh, definitely. I've seen that. Definitely.

01:14:45.140 --> 01:14:51.479
I've seen that. I also see I'm encouraged that

01:14:51.479 --> 01:14:54.859
I'm encouraged by the number of clients that

01:14:54.859 --> 01:15:01.800
we see who are obviously very wealthy, very successful

01:15:01.800 --> 01:15:04.619
in their whatever their line of work is you know

01:15:04.619 --> 01:15:08.180
got a lot of investors and real estate folks

01:15:08.180 --> 01:15:12.239
and c -suite types and entrepreneurs there's

01:15:12.239 --> 01:15:15.000
a large swath of these individuals who are also

01:15:15.000 --> 01:15:18.640
they're they're high achievers in every area

01:15:18.640 --> 01:15:21.760
of their lives and come to a program like ours

01:15:21.760 --> 01:15:25.140
because Because they're already pretty dialed

01:15:25.140 --> 01:15:27.060
in in fitness and nutrition. They're just looking

01:15:27.060 --> 01:15:28.260
to pull all the levers they can. They want to

01:15:28.260 --> 01:15:30.159
leave nothing unturned. And they've got the means

01:15:30.159 --> 01:15:33.539
to do that. So I'm super encouraged to see that.

01:15:33.619 --> 01:15:36.800
Because what you just shared, James, is the typical

01:15:36.800 --> 01:15:41.960
scenario where they go all in and neglect their

01:15:41.960 --> 01:15:46.500
health and their family and everything else for

01:15:46.500 --> 01:15:50.520
the relentless pursuit of whether it's wealth

01:15:50.520 --> 01:15:55.899
or just, you know. being a workaholic. That's

01:15:55.899 --> 01:15:57.619
certainly still there. Absolutely. And we do

01:15:57.619 --> 01:16:00.119
have some of that, but I'm encouraged by this.

01:16:00.359 --> 01:16:02.020
That is an encouraging shift that I'm seeing,

01:16:02.079 --> 01:16:04.279
at least at this, at this level, a lot of folks

01:16:04.279 --> 01:16:07.819
who are, and maybe they've, they've, they've

01:16:07.819 --> 01:16:09.140
had that in the past, but by the time they're

01:16:09.140 --> 01:16:10.779
coming to us, they're like, okay, yeah, I've,

01:16:10.779 --> 01:16:12.659
I'm actually already pretty well optimized. Let

01:16:12.659 --> 01:16:16.600
me just optimize even further. So, but just to

01:16:16.600 --> 01:16:18.939
finish the answer to that though, I could speak,

01:16:19.020 --> 01:16:20.539
I mentioned being overweight as a, as a child.

01:16:21.050 --> 01:16:23.270
Um, I would say I had a brief six year period,

01:16:23.409 --> 01:16:26.250
um, when I was in first was my PhD and then my

01:16:26.250 --> 01:16:28.289
postdoc where I would say that I did exactly

01:16:28.289 --> 01:16:29.949
what you just shared was I didn't get wealthy.

01:16:30.090 --> 01:16:33.010
Don't get me wrong, but I went all in on my education

01:16:33.010 --> 01:16:36.569
and became a complete, uh, just very, very like

01:16:36.569 --> 01:16:38.649
obsessed workaholic and to the detriment of my

01:16:38.649 --> 01:16:42.229
health. And so it was the next, I'm still on

01:16:42.229 --> 01:16:45.390
the, now that was 12, 13 years ago that I turned

01:16:45.390 --> 01:16:48.710
the corner on that, but from ages roughly 27

01:16:48.710 --> 01:16:53.399
or 28 to. No, no, no, no, that's not right. 24,

01:16:53.520 --> 01:16:57.539
25 to like my early 30s. I was what I would refer

01:16:57.539 --> 01:17:00.560
to as an exercise philosopher. I would study

01:17:00.560 --> 01:17:02.920
exercise quite a bit, thought about it, wrote

01:17:02.920 --> 01:17:04.579
a hell of a lot about it, published quite a bit

01:17:04.579 --> 01:17:07.859
on it, but didn't do it as much as I did the

01:17:07.859 --> 01:17:10.239
bare minimum for sure. And so that was the other

01:17:10.239 --> 01:17:13.439
phase of my life where I actually struggled with

01:17:13.439 --> 01:17:16.659
weight and body composition. I was a very unhealthy

01:17:16.659 --> 01:17:19.100
assistant professor when I first started that

01:17:19.100 --> 01:17:23.569
job. Yeah. Not the way to do things. No, absolutely

01:17:23.569 --> 01:17:25.390
not. And the thing is, again, understanding the

01:17:25.390 --> 01:17:27.550
ultimate currency. And in my profession, I talk

01:17:27.550 --> 01:17:29.970
about this a lot. The ultimate currency is time

01:17:29.970 --> 01:17:32.069
with your family. And if you want to extrapolate

01:17:32.069 --> 01:17:35.029
even more, the ability to play with your spouse,

01:17:35.149 --> 01:17:37.989
with your children, et cetera. So that overtime,

01:17:38.369 --> 01:17:41.050
those crazy work weeks, they're not worth it.

01:17:41.069 --> 01:17:44.100
They're never, ever worth it. What's exciting

01:17:44.100 --> 01:17:47.260
is I hear, and again, we're choosing from a much

01:17:47.260 --> 01:17:49.979
smaller section of society now that are able

01:17:49.979 --> 01:17:54.199
to be soldiers, firefighters, cops. But I'm hearing

01:17:54.199 --> 01:17:57.180
over and over again that the fit candidates of

01:17:57.180 --> 01:17:59.800
those professions are in incredible shape. And

01:17:59.800 --> 01:18:01.979
not just, as we said, squeezing out performance,

01:18:02.199 --> 01:18:04.060
but they understand mobility and mindfulness

01:18:04.060 --> 01:18:08.479
and breath work and ice baths. So we have a lot

01:18:08.479 --> 01:18:10.399
of information. We have a great environment.

01:18:10.520 --> 01:18:14.199
So how do we push the walls back? and start capturing

01:18:14.199 --> 01:18:17.979
that 70 % and make it 60 % and make it 50 % where

01:18:17.979 --> 01:18:21.180
now all the areas, whether it's, you know, what

01:18:21.180 --> 01:18:22.880
we've discussed today, the CrossFit community,

01:18:23.159 --> 01:18:25.979
the Spartans and Tough Mudders and, you know,

01:18:26.000 --> 01:18:28.039
all these other kind of movements that have really

01:18:28.039 --> 01:18:31.039
forged community and wellness and health and

01:18:31.039 --> 01:18:34.319
strength and endurance, and now kind of push

01:18:34.319 --> 01:18:37.979
that out to the rest of society. Yeah, absolutely.

01:18:38.119 --> 01:18:42.020
I think, I mean, it's one of the benefits of,

01:18:43.990 --> 01:18:47.909
The fitness, you mentioned like CrossFit and

01:18:47.909 --> 01:18:51.670
some of those things. That's the training methodology

01:18:51.670 --> 01:18:53.729
that I follow for the most part. I'm a member

01:18:53.729 --> 01:18:55.630
of a CrossFit gym. Work out with a couple of,

01:18:55.710 --> 01:18:59.250
shout out to my buddies, Logan and Zarb. They're

01:18:59.250 --> 01:19:01.750
police officers with Georgia State Patrol. And

01:19:01.750 --> 01:19:05.090
I work with at least one, a couple of firefighters

01:19:05.090 --> 01:19:08.909
as well. Dakota, if you listen to this, I'll

01:19:08.909 --> 01:19:10.329
send this to them later on. I think they'll appreciate

01:19:10.329 --> 01:19:14.529
it. But I talk about what you just shared with

01:19:14.529 --> 01:19:18.649
them quite a bit. Well, I actually asked the

01:19:18.649 --> 01:19:23.170
police officers. I said, so are the other guys

01:19:23.170 --> 01:19:27.250
and ladies in your cohort, are they like you?

01:19:27.329 --> 01:19:29.130
Are they into fitness? They're like, oh, not

01:19:29.130 --> 01:19:33.550
really. No. And so I don't know. I don't know

01:19:33.550 --> 01:19:34.729
necessarily where I was going with that. But

01:19:34.729 --> 01:19:38.829
I think I can speak just from seeing those guys

01:19:38.829 --> 01:19:43.350
and how they. how it impacts them and their profession.

01:19:44.289 --> 01:19:46.609
And I think I've never talked to them about it

01:19:46.609 --> 01:19:49.010
in great depth, but I'm sure that it's helpful

01:19:49.010 --> 01:19:50.670
for their mental health to be part of a fitness

01:19:50.670 --> 01:19:55.109
community and have that be an outlet. So a lot

01:19:55.109 --> 01:19:58.590
of times they'll come in after. The only time

01:19:58.590 --> 01:20:00.569
I'll beat those guys in a workout because they're

01:20:00.569 --> 01:20:02.829
both fitter than me is if they're coming in after

01:20:02.829 --> 01:20:04.409
like a 12 -hour shift and they're just doing

01:20:04.409 --> 01:20:05.630
it real quick before they go home and go to bed.

01:20:08.190 --> 01:20:11.229
But, yeah, it's a good outlet, I think, coming

01:20:11.229 --> 01:20:14.989
off like a hard shift or just dealing with taking

01:20:14.989 --> 01:20:18.710
all the things that challenge your mental health

01:20:18.710 --> 01:20:21.010
and physical health and all your resilience,

01:20:21.069 --> 01:20:23.010
taking that in stride just to shore up your own

01:20:23.010 --> 01:20:26.029
fitness is a big deal. It's a big deal. There's

01:20:26.029 --> 01:20:27.550
some anecdotal evidence, but that's something

01:20:27.550 --> 01:20:31.210
I've seen for sure. 100%. I did CrossFit since

01:20:31.210 --> 01:20:35.359
2006, still about. About two years ago, 18 months

01:20:35.359 --> 01:20:37.960
ago, we shifted to Wolf Brigade programming.

01:20:38.180 --> 01:20:41.100
So it's more focused on, they've got maces and

01:20:41.100 --> 01:20:44.979
heavy kettlebells. And our coach now is Colombian

01:20:44.979 --> 01:20:47.619
and he's an absolute phenom, Esteban. He wins,

01:20:47.840 --> 01:20:49.460
you know, he's one of the best in the world.

01:20:49.539 --> 01:20:51.960
So he's kind of slowly pushing some CrossFit

01:20:51.960 --> 01:20:55.300
stuff back in. But it was interesting because

01:20:55.300 --> 01:20:57.680
when I came off shift, I used to have the mentality

01:20:57.680 --> 01:20:59.840
of I'm just going to sweat off the stress, you

01:20:59.840 --> 01:21:03.020
know, 24 hours, 48 hours without sleep. And what

01:21:03.020 --> 01:21:05.140
I learned, and Jeff Nichols actually was someone

01:21:05.140 --> 01:21:06.880
who helped me kind of have this realization,

01:21:06.979 --> 01:21:09.399
is that there's a time and place. And if you're

01:21:09.399 --> 01:21:13.500
doing some complex WOD with snatches, maybe sleep

01:21:13.500 --> 01:21:15.619
deprivation isn't the time to do it. Probably

01:21:15.619 --> 01:21:17.300
not the right time to do that. You're just going

01:21:17.300 --> 01:21:19.880
to get more frustrated and more stressed. That's

01:21:19.880 --> 01:21:24.539
right. Knowing when to dial it down. Yeah. Oh,

01:21:24.560 --> 01:21:27.939
that's it. So 2006, man. You're an OG. I started

01:21:27.939 --> 01:21:33.430
in 2015. So this is coming up on 11 years. um

01:21:33.430 --> 01:21:36.310
and uh and then i do i it's kind of like the

01:21:36.310 --> 01:21:38.569
base of my i think of the base of my fitness

01:21:38.569 --> 01:21:40.850
but i also do a lot of other things i'm also

01:21:40.850 --> 01:21:44.109
a big runner um mountain like i said mountain

01:21:44.109 --> 01:21:46.609
biking crossword i would say helped me get back

01:21:46.609 --> 01:21:49.350
into it facilitated getting back into mountain

01:21:49.350 --> 01:21:51.449
biking after several years off because i kind

01:21:51.449 --> 01:21:55.550
of i had the fitness there uh but then it was

01:21:55.550 --> 01:21:58.149
uh the thing with mountain biking is now i'm

01:21:58.149 --> 01:22:01.340
older less fearful, a lot more fearful, a lot

01:22:01.340 --> 01:22:04.119
more, uh, cautious when I'm out on the trail

01:22:04.119 --> 01:22:06.399
and, you know, not so reckless as I was when

01:22:06.399 --> 01:22:09.779
I was like 18, 19 years old. Um, I don't either,

01:22:09.819 --> 01:22:11.439
I don't need to fall down the side of a mountain

01:22:11.439 --> 01:22:13.960
or hit a tree or something like that. But anyway,

01:22:14.119 --> 01:22:17.539
yeah, it's good stuff. Absolutely. All right.

01:22:17.560 --> 01:22:19.600
Well, I want to throw a quick closing questions

01:22:19.600 --> 01:22:21.439
out before I let you go. I know we're mindful

01:22:21.439 --> 01:22:23.600
of your headphones, not running out of battery,

01:22:23.640 --> 01:22:25.760
so I'll keep it quick. Hopefully they're okay.

01:22:25.840 --> 01:22:29.449
Yeah. All right. The first one, is there a book

01:22:29.449 --> 01:22:31.529
or are there books that you love to recommend?

01:22:31.750 --> 01:22:33.949
It can be related to our discussion today or

01:22:33.949 --> 01:22:36.750
completely unrelated. Yeah, I got one right here.

01:22:38.949 --> 01:22:43.050
Outlive by Peter Atiyah. If your audience hasn't

01:22:43.050 --> 01:22:46.909
read this one, it's a good one. I really respect

01:22:46.909 --> 01:22:49.949
a lot of what pretty much everything that Peter

01:22:49.949 --> 01:22:54.569
Atiyah believes and has to say about a lot of

01:22:54.569 --> 01:22:56.899
things we talk about, like longevity. So that

01:22:56.899 --> 01:22:59.460
would be definitely one that I recommend for

01:22:59.460 --> 01:23:02.979
sure. What about films, documentaries, television

01:23:02.979 --> 01:23:07.859
shows? Oh gosh, you're asking the wrong guy about

01:23:07.859 --> 01:23:11.039
any of that. Well, no Game of Thrones isn't going

01:23:11.039 --> 01:23:14.000
to be your answer. No, I don't really watch TV.

01:23:15.260 --> 01:23:17.779
I like movies, but I don't really watch them.

01:23:19.399 --> 01:23:21.880
I watch a lot of YouTube, but that's my brain

01:23:21.880 --> 01:23:25.140
off time. That's cooking content. Um, so let

01:23:25.140 --> 01:23:27.659
me, let me put it this way. If that can be an

01:23:27.659 --> 01:23:29.800
outlet, this is how it's an outlet for me is

01:23:29.800 --> 01:23:33.220
kind of a creative outlet and a somewhat mentally

01:23:33.220 --> 01:23:35.380
stimulated. I'm not a big fan of just complete

01:23:35.380 --> 01:23:38.899
regularly scheduled, complete veg time. I'm just

01:23:38.899 --> 01:23:42.100
not, um, this, and that might be me. You might

01:23:42.100 --> 01:23:43.579
find some experts that disagree with me on that,

01:23:43.579 --> 01:23:47.380
but, um, The veg time for me is still somewhat

01:23:47.380 --> 01:23:49.619
stimulating, but like a different part of my

01:23:49.619 --> 01:23:51.619
brain and a hobby. For me, that would be a whole

01:23:51.619 --> 01:23:53.039
other podcast that we could talk about cooking

01:23:53.039 --> 01:23:54.640
and like grilling meats and all that kind of

01:23:54.640 --> 01:23:57.420
stuff. I'm all, that's my big thing. So that's

01:23:57.420 --> 01:24:02.260
my downside. So if film, television, YouTube,

01:24:02.340 --> 01:24:04.020
whatever it is, can check that box for you, then

01:24:04.020 --> 01:24:06.399
I would recommend it. One of the people I'd love

01:24:06.399 --> 01:24:09.060
to get on, and it goes back to what we serve

01:24:09.060 --> 01:24:12.199
in schools, is Jamie Oliver, because he actually

01:24:12.199 --> 01:24:15.670
did that in England. I thought about him as you

01:24:15.670 --> 01:24:18.210
were asking me about schools. That's his big

01:24:18.210 --> 01:24:21.449
contribution to, I think that's his biggest professional

01:24:21.449 --> 01:24:24.569
contribution, what he did, what he tried to do

01:24:24.569 --> 01:24:26.550
and what he, I think he was successful to a large

01:24:26.550 --> 01:24:29.289
degree, was he not? I believe so. I believe so.

01:24:29.329 --> 01:24:32.229
It's hard when you Google it to see, are they

01:24:32.229 --> 01:24:34.369
still doing it? The internet doesn't quite understand

01:24:34.369 --> 01:24:39.020
that. So I hope so. Yeah. All right. Well, the

01:24:39.020 --> 01:24:41.119
next question, is there a person you'd recommend

01:24:41.119 --> 01:24:44.199
to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to

01:24:44.199 --> 01:24:46.319
the first responders, military and associated

01:24:46.319 --> 01:24:49.560
professions of the world? If you can get them,

01:24:49.579 --> 01:24:51.319
my boss, Dan Garner, would be an incredible guest.

01:24:52.859 --> 01:24:56.039
And I can I can I recommend that to him, too.

01:24:56.779 --> 01:25:03.220
He's I he I'll let him confirm this, but I believe

01:25:03.220 --> 01:25:05.199
he has his experience with pretty much every

01:25:05.199 --> 01:25:08.890
type of individual. And if he hasn't worked directly

01:25:08.890 --> 01:25:10.649
with a lot of first responders, he will have

01:25:10.649 --> 01:25:16.130
a lot of insights into optimizing, you know,

01:25:16.130 --> 01:25:19.149
how to optimize your health within the constraints

01:25:19.149 --> 01:25:22.289
of like being on a difficult sleep schedule and

01:25:22.289 --> 01:25:24.350
shift work and all that kind of stuff. He will

01:25:24.350 --> 01:25:27.010
have some experience, valuable experience to

01:25:27.010 --> 01:25:30.350
share for sure. Brilliant. I'd love to get him

01:25:30.350 --> 01:25:32.050
on if that was something we could make happen.

01:25:32.130 --> 01:25:36.140
I had Andy on. It has to have been six plus years

01:25:36.140 --> 01:25:38.079
ago now, so I probably need to get him back on

01:25:38.079 --> 01:25:39.420
too. You could get him back as well. That'd be

01:25:39.420 --> 01:25:42.920
the equally enthusiastic recommendation as well.

01:25:43.439 --> 01:25:45.140
Brilliant. All right. Well, the last question

01:25:45.140 --> 01:25:46.939
before we make sure everyone knows where to find

01:25:46.939 --> 01:25:49.779
Rapid and yourself online, what do you do to

01:25:49.779 --> 01:25:54.060
decompress? I just shared the biggest one. I

01:25:54.060 --> 01:25:57.159
would say on a personal level is I cook. I love

01:25:57.159 --> 01:25:59.619
cooking and eating. That's a big part of like...

01:26:01.199 --> 01:26:03.279
And the thing that makes me really excited is

01:26:03.279 --> 01:26:07.020
making it all work in a sense of like, I don't

01:26:07.020 --> 01:26:09.100
feel, I don't want to ever, like I'm big on nutrition

01:26:09.100 --> 01:26:11.399
and body composition and fitness, but also an

01:26:11.399 --> 01:26:13.819
equal measure of love food. And so like having

01:26:13.819 --> 01:26:16.119
those two gel is challenging, it's difficult,

01:26:16.199 --> 01:26:18.060
but I feel like I've got a really good handle

01:26:18.060 --> 01:26:19.640
on it. So I get really excited about that. And

01:26:19.640 --> 01:26:23.140
so, um, yeah, I do that. The other thing, even

01:26:23.140 --> 01:26:25.000
more than that though, that I do to decompress,

01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:29.000
even though this it's also. A big effort. It's

01:26:29.000 --> 01:26:31.039
just cliche, man, but playing with my little

01:26:31.039 --> 01:26:36.520
boy. Can't beat it. It's the highlight of my

01:26:36.520 --> 01:26:38.699
life, the thing I look forward to the most every

01:26:38.699 --> 01:26:42.520
single day. It's decompression. At the same time,

01:26:42.539 --> 01:26:47.199
it's tiring, but it's the best thing in the world.

01:26:47.979 --> 01:26:50.300
It's not cliche at all. I think that's the problem

01:26:50.300 --> 01:26:52.380
is that we almost frame it that way rather than

01:26:52.380 --> 01:26:54.520
realizing that that is the most important thing.

01:26:54.960 --> 01:26:58.440
It's the reason for everything else, right? Absolutely.

01:26:58.440 --> 01:27:00.359
Quick question about the cooking. Is that something

01:27:00.359 --> 01:27:02.300
you got into more recently or have you always

01:27:02.300 --> 01:27:05.260
been into it? Oh, no. Lifelong. Lifelong. I started

01:27:05.260 --> 01:27:07.180
cooking for myself in college. It was a complete

01:27:07.180 --> 01:27:11.239
disaster. But just always, always enjoyed it.

01:27:11.279 --> 01:27:13.840
Always loved it. And, yeah, experimented with

01:27:13.840 --> 01:27:17.859
different things. Yeah, lately I've been trying

01:27:17.859 --> 01:27:20.760
to master seafood, which is difficult. It's a

01:27:20.760 --> 01:27:23.220
hard thing to do to cook a piece of fish. They're

01:27:23.220 --> 01:27:25.340
very delicate. But getting there. We're getting

01:27:25.340 --> 01:27:31.319
there. I cook, but I don't have a very wide repertoire.

01:27:31.399 --> 01:27:33.180
And that's what I'm trying to do is learn new

01:27:33.180 --> 01:27:35.579
recipes. But I think I've heard many people allude

01:27:35.579 --> 01:27:39.340
to this. When you cook, I mean, obviously, firstly,

01:27:39.399 --> 01:27:41.500
is the part where you just understand where food

01:27:41.500 --> 01:27:43.779
originally comes from, learning about meats and

01:27:43.779 --> 01:27:46.260
the vegetables and things, which I think we underestimate

01:27:46.260 --> 01:27:49.920
how few people actually know that. Again, if

01:27:49.920 --> 01:27:51.619
we're not educating in schools, we're not serving

01:27:51.619 --> 01:27:55.189
real food, but also preparing. the body to eat

01:27:55.189 --> 01:27:57.850
if you are going through a cooking process there's

01:27:57.850 --> 01:27:59.810
things that are happening in our physiology that

01:27:59.810 --> 01:28:02.090
are preparing us to receive that food if you

01:28:02.090 --> 01:28:05.090
drive through into a mcdonald's and then 20 seconds

01:28:05.090 --> 01:28:07.229
later you're ramming a big mac down your throat

01:28:07.229 --> 01:28:09.949
then you know you're shocking the body basically

01:28:09.949 --> 01:28:14.529
it is it is interesting i haven't seen a lot

01:28:14.529 --> 01:28:19.630
of that but i completely uh that that seems like

01:28:19.630 --> 01:28:24.159
that makes a lot of sense for sure um yeah you're

01:28:24.159 --> 01:28:26.300
just as with anything most things in physiology

01:28:26.300 --> 01:28:30.199
there's like a a priming component you know uh

01:28:30.199 --> 01:28:32.159
and that makes sense that preparing food would

01:28:32.159 --> 01:28:34.859
have a physiological effect absolutely i have

01:28:34.859 --> 01:28:36.140
to look into that that's interesting stuff yeah

01:28:36.140 --> 01:28:38.779
yeah no i mean anything about even just salivation

01:28:38.779 --> 01:28:40.920
when you when you smell and there's there's things

01:28:40.920 --> 01:28:43.060
you can observe within yourself okay i'm getting

01:28:43.060 --> 01:28:46.340
ready all right well for people listening where

01:28:46.340 --> 01:28:49.020
are the best places online to find rapid and

01:28:49.020 --> 01:28:50.779
then what about yourself if they want to follow

01:28:50.779 --> 01:28:55.079
you or reach out Um, so rapid, uh, would be just

01:28:55.079 --> 01:28:59.260
rapid health optimization .com. Uh, their Instagram,

01:28:59.479 --> 01:29:03.039
I'm going to type it in to my laptop here to

01:29:03.039 --> 01:29:06.439
make sure that I get it right. Um, it's a difficult

01:29:06.439 --> 01:29:08.420
one and maybe we can, I can send it to you. We

01:29:08.420 --> 01:29:09.920
can paste it into show notes or whatever, but

01:29:09.920 --> 01:29:13.020
it's called RTA performance lab. That's on Instagram.

01:29:13.319 --> 01:29:19.420
Um, R E R a, sorry. Okay. A R E T E performance

01:29:19.420 --> 01:29:22.520
lab. That's an, all of that is all one. all one

01:29:22.520 --> 01:29:27.020
word um that is and i th can you still hear me

01:29:27.020 --> 01:29:31.739
james with my i think okay i got one got one

01:29:31.739 --> 01:29:36.260
left maybe you can hang on um so uh that's their

01:29:36.260 --> 01:29:38.319
instagram uh but their rapidhealthoptimization

01:29:38.319 --> 01:29:42.859
.com uh is the also a good place and then for

01:29:42.859 --> 01:29:46.119
me personally i am dr nathan jenkins on instagram

01:29:46.119 --> 01:29:49.520
and that's pretty much my only social media presence.

01:29:49.739 --> 01:29:54.140
So yeah, lots of fitness stuff, food things,

01:29:54.239 --> 01:29:57.600
and goofy videos of me and my son playing. Brilliant.

01:29:58.159 --> 01:30:00.420
Well, I want to thank you so much for being so

01:30:00.420 --> 01:30:03.020
generous with your time and coming on the Behind

01:30:03.020 --> 01:30:05.159
the Shield podcast. It's been an amazing conversation.

01:30:05.619 --> 01:30:08.079
Very unique perspective between, as you mentioned,

01:30:08.180 --> 01:30:10.880
the very academic lab -focused lens that you

01:30:10.880 --> 01:30:12.979
had, and then now what you're doing with these

01:30:12.979 --> 01:30:14.840
biomarkers and helping these high performers.

01:30:15.079 --> 01:30:17.500
So thank you again for coming on the Behind the

01:30:17.500 --> 01:30:21.000
Shield podcast. Happy to do it. Really enjoyed

01:30:21.000 --> 01:30:24.479
it. And yeah, I hope this was valuable for your

01:30:24.479 --> 01:30:25.420
audience. I really enjoyed it.