WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.200
This episode is sponsored by yet another company

00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:05.440
that I truly stand behind and that is Levels.

00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:08.259
And Levels is going to be offering you, the Behind

00:00:08.259 --> 00:00:10.960
the Shield podcast audience, a discount that

00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:13.099
I will tell you about at the end of this introduction.

00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:16.879
Now, before I even dive into what Levels does,

00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:20.620
when I had a conversation with their CEO and

00:00:20.620 --> 00:00:23.920
founder, Josh Clemente, he underlined such an

00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:27.320
important topic. So many of us rely on visits

00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:30.460
to our physicians to tell us how we are doing,

00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:34.009
and that is so backward. I am an absolute believer

00:00:34.009 --> 00:00:36.990
in putting autonomy back into the hands of the

00:00:36.990 --> 00:00:39.869
individual so they can take care of their own

00:00:39.869 --> 00:00:42.950
health. Now, what Levels does is it gives us

00:00:42.950 --> 00:00:45.850
the metrics so we can see exactly how everything

00:00:45.850 --> 00:00:49.429
is internally. So they help people improve their

00:00:49.429 --> 00:00:51.689
health through continuous glucose monitoring,

00:00:52.009 --> 00:00:55.509
comprehensive lab tests, and metabolic coaching.

00:00:56.159 --> 00:00:58.539
Now through their three levels that they offer,

00:00:58.679 --> 00:01:00.960
they have programs that focus on weight loss,

00:01:01.259 --> 00:01:04.959
heart health, and glucose stability. I've now

00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:07.500
been through this program twice, and I'll kind

00:01:07.500 --> 00:01:10.159
of illustrate what it will look like. So you

00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:12.200
make an initial consultation with your levels

00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:15.879
coach. You wear a continuous blood sugar monitor

00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:20.120
for one month. You'll complete a lab panel, and

00:01:20.120 --> 00:01:23.219
I did it through Quest Diagnostics. A clinician

00:01:23.219 --> 00:01:26.319
with levels will then analyze your results and

00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:29.439
give you an action plan. That's when you can

00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:32.519
then start hitting your own health goals and

00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:35.739
in real time track your own progress. And then

00:01:35.739 --> 00:01:38.120
depending on the level you subscribe to, there's

00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:40.879
also a second blood work so you can now see how

00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:44.519
you're doing six months later. Now by combining

00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:48.680
AI data, AI powered insights and human coaching

00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:52.870
together, 80 % of Levels members improve their

00:01:52.870 --> 00:01:56.370
biomarkers. Now, as I mentioned, Levels is offering

00:01:56.370 --> 00:01:58.650
you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast,

00:01:59.189 --> 00:02:03.129
$100 off your first order if you use the promo

00:02:03.129 --> 00:02:08.250
code SHIELD at levels .com. And if you're interested

00:02:08.250 --> 00:02:11.229
in getting Levels for your department, email

00:02:11.229 --> 00:02:14.830
Josh Clemente, the founder and CEO of Levels,

00:02:14.830 --> 00:02:20.240
at josh at levels .com. And if you want to hear

00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.060
the origin story and so much more about this

00:02:23.060 --> 00:02:26.039
incredible company, listen to my interview with

00:02:26.039 --> 00:02:30.599
CEO and founder Josh Clemente on episode 1159

00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:34.740
of the Behind the Shield podcast. Welcome to

00:02:34.740 --> 00:02:36.479
the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my

00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:38.419
name is James Geering, and this week it is my

00:02:38.419 --> 00:02:41.580
absolute honor to welcome on the show CEO and

00:02:41.580 --> 00:02:46.599
co -founder of StationWise, Marcus Edwards. So

00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:49.259
in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics

00:02:49.259 --> 00:02:52.740
from growing up in a firefighter family, his

00:02:52.740 --> 00:02:56.080
journey into the world of data analysis, creating

00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:58.719
an app that navigates not only staffing, but

00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:02.159
firefighter health, the integration of wearables,

00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:05.659
the ability to pull reports on money wasted to

00:03:05.659 --> 00:03:08.900
therefore justify proactive staffing, and so

00:03:08.900 --> 00:03:12.039
much more. Now, before we get to this incredible

00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:14.860
conversation, as I say every week, please just

00:03:14.860 --> 00:03:17.629
take a moment. Go to whichever app you listen

00:03:17.629 --> 00:03:21.310
to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback,

00:03:21.550 --> 00:03:25.409
and leave a rating. Every single five -star rating

00:03:25.409 --> 00:03:28.469
truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making

00:03:28.469 --> 00:03:32.289
it easier for others to find. And this is a free

00:03:32.289 --> 00:03:37.210
library of well over 1 ,100 episodes now. So

00:03:37.210 --> 00:03:40.789
all I ask in return is that you help share these

00:03:40.789 --> 00:03:43.810
incredible men and women's stories so I can get

00:03:43.810 --> 00:03:47.009
them to every single person on planet Earth who

00:03:47.009 --> 00:03:50.090
needs to hear them. So with that being said,

00:03:50.289 --> 00:04:15.199
I introduce to you Marcus Edwards. Enjoy. Well,

00:04:15.219 --> 00:04:17.420
Marcus, I want to start by saying thank you so

00:04:17.420 --> 00:04:19.819
much for taking the time and coming on the Behind

00:04:19.819 --> 00:04:22.660
the Shield podcast today. Yeah, appreciate you

00:04:22.660 --> 00:04:25.000
having me. Glad to be here. That is a beautiful

00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:27.399
living room behind you, by the way. Yeah, they

00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:32.139
have awesome virtual backgrounds here. I always

00:04:32.139 --> 00:04:34.100
wonder what's behind it. Is there someone being

00:04:34.100 --> 00:04:36.759
killed or middle of a war zone? No green screen,

00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:40.259
normal room, unfortunately. Sorry to disappoint.

00:04:41.950 --> 00:04:43.870
All right. Well, very first question, where on

00:04:43.870 --> 00:04:46.430
planet Earth are we finding you today? I'm in

00:04:46.430 --> 00:04:49.329
San Francisco. Brilliant. Well, I would love

00:04:49.329 --> 00:04:51.670
to start the very beginning of your journey.

00:04:51.730 --> 00:04:53.990
So tell me where you were born and tell me a

00:04:53.990 --> 00:04:55.730
little bit about your family dynamic, what your

00:04:55.730 --> 00:04:58.769
parents did, how many siblings? Yeah, absolutely.

00:04:59.110 --> 00:05:02.529
I was born in Mount Pleasant, Iowa. Mom had me

00:05:02.529 --> 00:05:05.310
in undergrad, so it was very much. the oldest

00:05:05.310 --> 00:05:09.250
child watching a young mother who had to do a

00:05:09.250 --> 00:05:11.930
lot in terms of work. So work ethic was very

00:05:11.930 --> 00:05:14.689
big for me growing up. She was always working

00:05:14.689 --> 00:05:19.430
and very hard at that. And then my dad is actually

00:05:19.430 --> 00:05:22.689
my biological stepdad. He adopted my sister and

00:05:22.689 --> 00:05:26.850
I in seventh grade. So he is in the fire service

00:05:26.850 --> 00:05:30.879
as well as my uncle. And then my dad's dad and

00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:33.459
then another uncle as well. So four firefighter

00:05:33.459 --> 00:05:36.319
family members. My aunt is a police sergeant,

00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:39.500
are formerly just retired from that. So very

00:05:39.500 --> 00:05:42.060
much a first responder family. And I'm the oldest

00:05:42.060 --> 00:05:45.699
with three younger sisters. So very much was

00:05:45.699 --> 00:05:48.740
more of the responsible older sibling in many

00:05:48.740 --> 00:05:52.250
cases, helping my younger sisters out. Definitely

00:05:52.250 --> 00:05:54.410
wanted more of a boy in the house, which would

00:05:54.410 --> 00:05:55.970
have been nice to have someone to play with,

00:05:56.089 --> 00:05:58.889
but was more the responsible one growing up.

00:05:58.990 --> 00:06:02.370
And then we lived in the Chicago suburbs. My

00:06:02.370 --> 00:06:04.850
dad was a firefighter out in Evanston up north

00:06:04.850 --> 00:06:09.250
from there. When you reflect back now, what were

00:06:09.250 --> 00:06:12.329
the pros and what were the cons of growing up

00:06:12.329 --> 00:06:16.500
in a firefighter family as a child? Pros were

00:06:16.500 --> 00:06:18.379
kind of the cons too. So we got to like ride

00:06:18.379 --> 00:06:20.600
fire trucks or have great meals on holidays.

00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:23.420
But then that also meant for Christmas, for one

00:06:23.420 --> 00:06:25.699
example, when you think of like scheduling, which

00:06:25.699 --> 00:06:27.920
is what we do, was very used to the schedule

00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:30.560
just not being normal. So, you know, we would

00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:33.279
have a Christmas day or a Christmas Eve, never

00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:35.560
both with my dad and uncle because they were

00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:38.439
on two different shifts and had a 24, you know,

00:06:38.439 --> 00:06:41.379
48 schedule. So it was just very clear to me

00:06:41.379 --> 00:06:43.839
early on. We just work around that. Christmas

00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:45.680
is this day this year. And that's when we all

00:06:45.980 --> 00:06:47.500
you know, we'll come together as a family and

00:06:47.500 --> 00:06:49.860
open gifts. But that was, you know, a little

00:06:49.860 --> 00:06:52.300
bit of the con, but also made those moments more

00:06:52.300 --> 00:06:54.720
special, where it was more about the tradition

00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:57.480
and being together than the date. And I would

00:06:57.480 --> 00:07:00.439
say the family part of both my family being a

00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:03.019
big, very close family, and then also the fire

00:07:03.019 --> 00:07:05.339
service being, you know, similar in that way,

00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:08.439
have just seen so many examples of, like some

00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:10.839
of my family members, but more other folks in

00:07:10.839 --> 00:07:12.779
the fire service that have stumbled or fallen

00:07:12.779 --> 00:07:16.319
down or struggled. That's life. And just having

00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:19.379
folks there to pick them up was at a conference

00:07:19.379 --> 00:07:21.740
a few weeks ago for the Western Fire Chiefs.

00:07:21.740 --> 00:07:24.879
And they said, this is one of the last institutions

00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:28.180
where good men are still made and looking to

00:07:28.180 --> 00:07:30.959
be made. And I think that resonated a lot with

00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:33.980
growing up in that environment of like it is

00:07:33.980 --> 00:07:36.920
about honor and integrity and respect and honesty.

00:07:37.399 --> 00:07:40.480
But you can also, you know. dream big and do

00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:42.959
a lot of things because the fire service is always

00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:45.480
changing as much as they hate change. So personally,

00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:48.360
I loved growing up in a very first responder

00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:51.139
family. And I think the craziness of life tends

00:07:51.139 --> 00:07:53.480
to lend itself well to folks with that background.

00:07:53.540 --> 00:07:55.560
So I think they helped me, you know, stay calm

00:07:55.560 --> 00:07:58.779
under pressure too. See, I couldn't agree more.

00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:01.589
I think it. really is the most incredible calling.

00:08:01.689 --> 00:08:04.410
And when you're fire and EMS combined, you know,

00:08:04.430 --> 00:08:06.870
you literally are the Swiss army knife of the

00:08:06.870 --> 00:08:09.370
first responder world. And there's just nothing

00:08:09.370 --> 00:08:12.990
more noble that I've put my hand on my heart

00:08:12.990 --> 00:08:14.810
and say some of the most incredible husbands

00:08:14.810 --> 00:08:17.230
and wives and mothers and fathers have been firefighters

00:08:17.230 --> 00:08:19.829
that I know they really are. And what's exciting

00:08:19.829 --> 00:08:22.649
as we get through this conversation. You know,

00:08:22.689 --> 00:08:24.829
we're going to talk about how we can start bolstering

00:08:24.829 --> 00:08:26.949
some of these areas where the fire service does

00:08:26.949 --> 00:08:29.709
need help so we can get back to where it truly

00:08:29.709 --> 00:08:32.889
needs to be to reach its full potential. Absolutely.

00:08:33.889 --> 00:08:36.190
So what about sports and exercise? What were

00:08:36.190 --> 00:08:39.309
you playing and doing as a child? Baseball. I

00:08:39.309 --> 00:08:41.570
did one year of football and hated it too much.

00:08:41.669 --> 00:08:43.750
I like the football workouts, actually great

00:08:43.750 --> 00:08:46.070
training, but didn't like wearing all the pads

00:08:46.070 --> 00:08:48.129
and they had me as a center for some reason.

00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:51.980
wasn't big enough for that. So baseball, mostly

00:08:51.980 --> 00:08:55.340
outfield, center field until sophomore year of

00:08:55.340 --> 00:08:57.879
high school. switched to track and cross country,

00:08:58.019 --> 00:09:00.980
and then also loved that. I always liked running

00:09:00.980 --> 00:09:02.659
and diving for the ball in baseball. So that

00:09:02.659 --> 00:09:05.259
was my big thing. And then picked up a lot of

00:09:05.259 --> 00:09:07.940
volleyball actually in grad school. So three

00:09:07.940 --> 00:09:10.120
to four days a week of having a volleyball court

00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:13.120
nearby and a big fan of sand volleyball. Anything

00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:15.659
hand -eye coordination I love, but if I have

00:09:15.659 --> 00:09:18.179
to kick a ball or use my feet to do anything

00:09:18.179 --> 00:09:20.259
other than run, I will be pretty terrible to

00:09:20.259 --> 00:09:24.340
have on your team. I could kick someone in the

00:09:24.340 --> 00:09:27.100
head. in a jump spinning kick, but I still struggle

00:09:27.100 --> 00:09:29.600
to even dribble a football. So there we go. I

00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:32.139
can relate when it's on the floor. I'm not so

00:09:32.139 --> 00:09:35.879
good. Can't even do that. So that's great. What

00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:38.340
about career aspirations? When you were in the

00:09:38.340 --> 00:09:40.679
high school age, were you thinking of first responders

00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:42.779
or you were thinking of the science side or was

00:09:42.779 --> 00:09:45.179
there something else in your mind? I thought

00:09:45.179 --> 00:09:48.360
of first responder way younger. Actually, so

00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:50.960
just seeing my dad working, it was interesting.

00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:54.940
But firefighters have aversion to technology

00:09:54.940 --> 00:09:57.360
in a lot of cases on the line staff side, especially.

00:09:57.580 --> 00:10:01.080
So it wasn't as interesting to me, like the hardware.

00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:04.679
Like my dad studying for like fluidics tests

00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:06.759
for his captain's exam and showing me how the

00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:09.039
hose pressures varied. Like that was way more

00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:11.779
exciting to me. And he knew it and could do the

00:10:11.779 --> 00:10:14.240
math really quickly, but wasn't as interested

00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:17.279
to him. It was just, you know, the job. So definitely

00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:20.000
more of the science and engineering that interested

00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:23.259
me. I thought I was going to do med school. Didn't

00:10:23.259 --> 00:10:26.419
realize it takes so long and so much money. Switched

00:10:26.419 --> 00:10:29.669
to thinking I would go to grad school. was studying,

00:10:29.710 --> 00:10:33.049
or I did study biomedical engineering. So how

00:10:33.049 --> 00:10:35.330
you design pharmaceutical drugs and deliver them

00:10:35.330 --> 00:10:39.289
was my core focus and takes 13 years to get a

00:10:39.289 --> 00:10:42.590
drug to market. That's a long time. So I kind

00:10:42.590 --> 00:10:44.429
of gravitated towards trying a lot of different

00:10:44.429 --> 00:10:47.129
things career -wise and seeing what fit. I worked

00:10:47.129 --> 00:10:49.889
at a pharmaceutical company, worked at a manufacturing

00:10:49.889 --> 00:10:51.970
company as an engineer on the plant floor to

00:10:51.970 --> 00:10:54.009
try that out. Definitely did not like that one

00:10:54.009 --> 00:10:56.190
as much because there's not as much room for

00:10:56.190 --> 00:10:58.549
creativity or talking to folks. And the things

00:10:58.549 --> 00:11:02.389
I enjoy decided to go to consulting. And that

00:11:02.389 --> 00:11:05.110
really was more of a get a breadth of experience.

00:11:05.950 --> 00:11:08.029
And I actually quickly became the company's advanced

00:11:08.029 --> 00:11:10.509
analytics trainer for the North America region.

00:11:10.730 --> 00:11:13.490
So anytime they needed something complex analyzed,

00:11:13.649 --> 00:11:16.330
I was like, great, I've never used this tool.

00:11:16.470 --> 00:11:18.830
Let me sign up to actually do the whole four

00:11:18.830 --> 00:11:21.049
month project on it. And I would learn it very

00:11:21.049 --> 00:11:23.330
quickly. And you'd have to because it's a quick

00:11:23.330 --> 00:11:26.649
turnaround. And then that spurred me to say,

00:11:26.669 --> 00:11:28.809
I want to go to business school because I saw

00:11:28.809 --> 00:11:31.610
plenty of folks doing it. I was at Stanford for

00:11:31.610 --> 00:11:33.950
business school, actually planning to go back

00:11:33.950 --> 00:11:36.909
into consulting. They pay for it for you. That

00:11:36.909 --> 00:11:39.210
was a great deal. You only have to go work for

00:11:39.210 --> 00:11:42.529
two years. But I thought that going back for

00:11:42.529 --> 00:11:44.570
the two years would pull me away from my long

00:11:44.570 --> 00:11:47.529
-term goal, which was to start a company. I wasn't

00:11:47.529 --> 00:11:50.919
sure where I would focus. So I told my dad over

00:11:50.919 --> 00:11:53.639
winter break, I have taken out all the loans

00:11:53.639 --> 00:11:56.460
and I am going to pay for it on my own. And I'm

00:11:56.460 --> 00:11:59.340
going to start a software business and I'll focus

00:11:59.340 --> 00:12:01.440
on a specific industry because I think that'll

00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:04.080
have me focus instead of building something for

00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:07.519
everyone. He said, I'll always support you. And

00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:09.700
if you want to fix a specific industry, you should

00:12:09.700 --> 00:12:11.740
fix the fire services software because it all

00:12:11.740 --> 00:12:14.679
sucks. Wouldn't say all by any means. And we

00:12:14.679 --> 00:12:16.480
have some great partners that we work with, too.

00:12:16.740 --> 00:12:18.899
But there has been very, very limited innovation.

00:12:19.629 --> 00:12:21.429
a lot of private equity owned companies that

00:12:21.429 --> 00:12:23.210
don't care about the product or the service,

00:12:23.350 --> 00:12:26.850
which is a tough combination. And we spent a

00:12:26.850 --> 00:12:29.110
few nights going through his phone or a few hours

00:12:29.110 --> 00:12:31.789
that night going through his phone. He couldn't

00:12:31.789 --> 00:12:34.590
show me most of the tools on his phone. So on

00:12:34.590 --> 00:12:36.669
his next shift, he FaceTimed me and then showed

00:12:36.669 --> 00:12:39.610
me most of the rest. And it was very clear there

00:12:39.610 --> 00:12:42.649
are a lot of disjointed systems. So my background

00:12:42.649 --> 00:12:45.830
being data interoperability and taking billions

00:12:45.830 --> 00:12:48.639
of rows of data from... Fortune 500 retailers

00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:51.980
and having them in minutes make sense of that

00:12:51.980 --> 00:12:54.480
and say, here's what I need to know. A similar

00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:57.259
problem where you do not have weeks to run reports

00:12:57.259 --> 00:13:00.399
to look at data. How do you see the key info

00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:03.000
you need on the screen as a fire chief, for example,

00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:06.080
across these many different tools? That's why

00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:08.539
we decided to start with staffing because I talked

00:13:08.539 --> 00:13:11.120
to tons of vendors and dozens of fire chiefs.

00:13:11.450 --> 00:13:13.909
And it's the only tool that touches every single

00:13:13.909 --> 00:13:16.289
user. So that's what got me excited to kind of

00:13:16.289 --> 00:13:18.549
combine. When you think of career aspirations,

00:13:18.929 --> 00:13:21.929
the kind of family background, but more my take

00:13:21.929 --> 00:13:24.950
on it, because it was more the technology nerding

00:13:24.950 --> 00:13:27.350
out on how the data flows side. But as I like

00:13:27.350 --> 00:13:29.649
to say, I'll handle all the boring back office

00:13:29.649 --> 00:13:31.509
stuff, which gets me excited. And then you can

00:13:31.509 --> 00:13:35.110
handle the rest. Where did that love of numbers

00:13:35.110 --> 00:13:37.370
and data come from when you reflect back to early

00:13:37.370 --> 00:13:40.669
life? I think it's just like a logical thinking

00:13:40.669 --> 00:13:44.629
mind, honestly. I both liked creative reading

00:13:44.629 --> 00:13:46.690
and writing and then separately numbers. So I

00:13:46.690 --> 00:13:49.649
try to make sure I have balance in both. But

00:13:49.649 --> 00:13:52.710
one of the nerdiest things about me, I can say,

00:13:52.769 --> 00:13:55.549
is my family would always make fun of me because

00:13:55.549 --> 00:13:57.629
growing up, my favorite book was my children's

00:13:57.629 --> 00:14:00.269
encyclopedia, which did have pictures, to be

00:14:00.269 --> 00:14:03.179
fair. But I would say. do you know the average

00:14:03.179 --> 00:14:05.940
weight of a blue whale? Or ask them ridiculous

00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:08.159
questions like that, because I would just constantly

00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:11.740
be reading information. So on the curiosity piece,

00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:14.399
I would say both for numbers or just wanting

00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:16.299
to read or learn more, that's always been a big

00:14:16.299 --> 00:14:20.320
driver. When you were in the drug development

00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:25.230
world, As we stand here in 2025, obviously there

00:14:25.230 --> 00:14:28.169
are some drugs that have done incredible things,

00:14:28.289 --> 00:14:30.309
and so you can't just tar everyone with the same

00:14:30.309 --> 00:14:33.250
brush. But we all know, I mean, OxyContin is

00:14:33.250 --> 00:14:35.850
a good example if we really want to use a terrible

00:14:35.850 --> 00:14:40.350
kind of product and put it out there. There are

00:14:40.350 --> 00:14:43.809
a lot of elements of that industry that really

00:14:43.809 --> 00:14:46.570
aren't making things better, and some would argue

00:14:46.570 --> 00:14:50.129
even they create the consumer. What were the

00:14:50.129 --> 00:14:53.570
beautiful, exciting elements of that industry

00:14:53.570 --> 00:14:56.490
when you were in it? And then what, if any, was

00:14:56.490 --> 00:15:00.450
the dark side that you saw? So I was at AbbVie,

00:15:00.450 --> 00:15:03.750
who makes Humira, one of the most profitable

00:15:03.750 --> 00:15:06.470
drugs before all the Ozempics of the world came

00:15:06.470 --> 00:15:09.870
out. I was doing, I think, $16 -ish billion a

00:15:09.870 --> 00:15:12.570
year in revenue while I was there. And a drug

00:15:12.570 --> 00:15:14.929
is considered a blockbuster if it reaches a billion

00:15:14.929 --> 00:15:17.389
in annualized revenue for any extended period

00:15:17.389 --> 00:15:20.269
of time. So this is one of the most profitable

00:15:20.269 --> 00:15:23.809
drugs ever created by human beings. While I was

00:15:23.809 --> 00:15:27.450
there, their indications for you are patent protected

00:15:27.450 --> 00:15:30.110
by this, only Humira can cover this indication

00:15:30.110 --> 00:15:32.570
started running out because they've been using

00:15:32.570 --> 00:15:35.690
it for 20 years. So when the indication started

00:15:35.690 --> 00:15:38.070
running out, I'll speak to the dark side first.

00:15:38.450 --> 00:15:41.659
It was very clear. that they were focusing on

00:15:41.659 --> 00:15:44.519
marketing, on branding, on retaining their price

00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:49.059
power, on squeezing out any potential. And this

00:15:49.059 --> 00:15:50.879
is common practice. This isn't an appy thing

00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:53.820
when you mentioned just the industry. So we don't

00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:56.120
want generics to be able to enter the market.

00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:59.000
We want generics to be perceived as worse. You'll

00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:01.639
still see like Mucinex or certain commercials

00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:03.860
where you could get a perfectly fine thing at

00:16:03.860 --> 00:16:07.149
Walgreens. Humira is dependent on people living

00:16:07.149 --> 00:16:10.929
like normal lives. It is not mucinex. I have

00:16:10.929 --> 00:16:13.070
a sister with type one diabetes, for example.

00:16:13.169 --> 00:16:16.269
So she'll need insulin forever unless there are

00:16:16.269 --> 00:16:18.730
some novel treatments down the line that folks

00:16:18.730 --> 00:16:20.950
are working on. I think within her lifetime,

00:16:21.210 --> 00:16:23.889
a more long term treatment is possible. But in

00:16:23.889 --> 00:16:25.870
the immediate future, she will always depend

00:16:25.870 --> 00:16:28.889
on pharmaceutical companies and even refrigeration

00:16:28.889 --> 00:16:32.559
in their transport to live. So that is the flip

00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:35.080
side I've seen where that makes life possible

00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:37.980
and increasingly more normal for folks who have

00:16:37.980 --> 00:16:40.600
long -term diseases. But the profit incentive

00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:43.179
that drives much of the industry to continue

00:16:43.179 --> 00:16:45.820
going up and up and up to please shareholders

00:16:45.820 --> 00:16:48.360
is the big problem I see. And actually, that's

00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:50.179
part of what inspired me to go into getting an

00:16:50.179 --> 00:16:53.379
MBA later on years down the line. An MBA student

00:16:53.379 --> 00:16:56.759
at AbbVie said, you mentioned that you're investing

00:16:56.759 --> 00:16:59.500
more and more in R &D, and that's why you need

00:16:59.500 --> 00:17:02.309
to keep Humira prices high. However, you've shown

00:17:02.309 --> 00:17:04.250
that you've acquired more companies and that

00:17:04.250 --> 00:17:06.410
you've invested less and less each year in R

00:17:06.410 --> 00:17:09.150
&D in this slide. So how do you justify that

00:17:09.150 --> 00:17:11.609
narrative? And he asked that to the newly assigned

00:17:11.609 --> 00:17:15.450
chief strategy officer. So he did not, in my

00:17:15.450 --> 00:17:17.349
opinion, answer in a compelling way whatsoever

00:17:17.349 --> 00:17:20.210
because there isn't a compelling answer. There's

00:17:20.210 --> 00:17:23.529
greed driving healthcare, health. health and

00:17:23.529 --> 00:17:26.410
medicine, let's say across the board. So I think

00:17:26.410 --> 00:17:28.549
the practitioners are the ones squeezed most

00:17:28.549 --> 00:17:31.029
and the patients, but I think there are solutions

00:17:31.029 --> 00:17:33.650
that folks know about to that. It's just more

00:17:33.650 --> 00:17:35.950
of a, you know, motivation issue that drives

00:17:35.950 --> 00:17:38.410
many industries, but that one being so important

00:17:38.410 --> 00:17:41.650
to people living, I have obviously stronger opinions

00:17:41.650 --> 00:17:44.230
about that one. Well, especially when you're

00:17:44.230 --> 00:17:47.369
talking about insulin, when you see just how

00:17:47.369 --> 00:17:51.299
preventable type two diabetes is. And the huge

00:17:51.299 --> 00:17:53.460
demand on that and the stress it's putting on

00:17:53.460 --> 00:17:55.960
that product being developed and, of course,

00:17:56.019 --> 00:17:59.660
the affordability. If we were able to push the

00:17:59.660 --> 00:18:02.119
proactive preventative model and make Americans

00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:04.480
healthier and healthier. And I just had a guest

00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:06.839
on, Josh Clemente, who's got Levels, which is

00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:10.279
an online app platform. Again, you do blood work.

00:18:10.339 --> 00:18:12.519
There's a continuous glucose monitor that you

00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:14.799
wear for a month. But the idea is to empower

00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:18.079
the individual. constantly be able to look at

00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:19.980
their own health and make their own changes therefore

00:18:19.980 --> 00:18:22.619
you know chronic chronic disease would come down

00:18:22.619 --> 00:18:25.900
immensely with all these tools but then that

00:18:25.900 --> 00:18:28.859
frees up you know the the insulin for the type

00:18:28.859 --> 00:18:31.240
1 diabetic that we you know are still working

00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:33.220
on what the cause is and what the solution is

00:18:33.220 --> 00:18:35.500
and the same with pediatric cancer you know the

00:18:35.500 --> 00:18:39.319
more cancers we can prevent the more money and

00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:41.480
research can go into these diseases where you

00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:43.240
know these poor children were just born they've

00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:44.980
got leukemia that's where the money needs to

00:18:44.980 --> 00:18:47.799
go so you know i think companies can still make

00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:51.500
good money but if if there's money it's not the

00:18:51.500 --> 00:18:54.259
most money and that societal problem is i think

00:18:54.259 --> 00:18:56.259
what we will all grapple with in the next 50

00:18:56.259 --> 00:18:58.960
years of how much is too much we'll have real

00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:01.440
resource scarcity on things like lithium where

00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:03.400
you can't just keep building the same electric

00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:05.720
car so yeah i couldn't agree more that i think

00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:08.099
that's the like how do we get the folks that

00:19:08.170 --> 00:19:10.730
the wheel, who are more doing the stock market

00:19:10.730 --> 00:19:12.750
investing or running these companies to make

00:19:12.750 --> 00:19:15.710
those more, will still make plenty of money,

00:19:15.789 --> 00:19:18.049
but managing those expectations for a better

00:19:18.049 --> 00:19:20.529
society. I see that as still the challenge for

00:19:20.529 --> 00:19:23.190
sure. Yeah. Well, that's one thing I've observed

00:19:23.190 --> 00:19:25.829
is there's this kind of worshiping of monopoly.

00:19:25.970 --> 00:19:28.650
And you mentioned Walgreens. What's next to Walgreens

00:19:28.650 --> 00:19:31.640
normally? CVS. In every city that I've been to.

00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:34.119
So rather than saying, well, hey, you know, Walgreens,

00:19:34.180 --> 00:19:35.680
you get the north end and we'll get the south

00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:37.799
end. You know, it's like, well, I want to put

00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:39.819
CVS out of business. I want to put Walgreens

00:19:39.819 --> 00:19:41.779
out of business. And that's the model to have

00:19:41.779 --> 00:19:44.019
all the money. But if you look at, you know,

00:19:44.019 --> 00:19:48.200
more historic human, you know, villages and towns,

00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:50.440
you know, the local blacksmith wasn't trying

00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:52.019
to put the other blacksmith out of business.

00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:54.319
They were just both serving the community. And

00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:57.000
I think we've lost that completely. Absolutely.

00:19:58.460 --> 00:20:02.599
All right. Well, then, so you talked about your

00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:05.500
father's kind of perspective on staffing. It's

00:20:05.500 --> 00:20:08.180
funny because I had one of my Anaheim captains

00:20:08.180 --> 00:20:10.759
developed one of the apps that I used through

00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:13.599
my career. Now, he sold it a long time ago. So

00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:15.500
how it's doing now is not a reflection of him.

00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:18.019
But at the time, it was a really great app. This

00:20:18.019 --> 00:20:20.900
was like 20 plus years ago now. Not even an app,

00:20:20.900 --> 00:20:25.700
a website. But even through my career. I've seen

00:20:25.700 --> 00:20:28.759
the challenges of websites and then also the

00:20:28.759 --> 00:20:30.440
fact that they're just not utilized properly

00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:32.420
because the people they're sold to aren't educated

00:20:32.420 --> 00:20:35.500
on how to use them and how to pull reports and

00:20:35.500 --> 00:20:38.720
how to empower the line personnel to really be

00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:42.700
able to be autonomous with their use of it. When

00:20:42.700 --> 00:20:46.640
you then enter this space and you start looking

00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:49.099
at what's out there, what were some of the most

00:20:49.099 --> 00:20:54.980
glaring deficiencies at first glance? any of

00:20:54.980 --> 00:20:57.480
these and like you mentioned just more now not

00:20:57.480 --> 00:20:59.339
when they started i think actually the reflection

00:20:59.339 --> 00:21:02.720
of every customer we've met is when every company

00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:05.099
started they were great and they worked with

00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:07.579
us and they had service so the number one thing

00:21:07.579 --> 00:21:09.900
we're working on is how we maintain that as we

00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:12.319
scale um that's where venture funding can be

00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:14.599
a bit different from private equity funding where

00:21:14.599 --> 00:21:16.799
we can plan years out and stick to that plan

00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:19.680
for at least hiring for example um so like that

00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:21.700
piece you know we want to make sure sets us apart

00:21:22.470 --> 00:21:25.269
You mentioned folks not having the setup properly.

00:21:25.549 --> 00:21:29.410
That is the number one issue. A lot of the complaints

00:21:29.410 --> 00:21:31.789
that folks have, the tool might be able to do

00:21:31.789 --> 00:21:34.730
if it were configured that way, especially at

00:21:34.730 --> 00:21:37.089
setup. A lot of the vendors will charge more

00:21:37.089 --> 00:21:39.890
for change orders or will say you need to spend

00:21:39.890 --> 00:21:42.029
on the engineering time that you don't get to

00:21:42.029 --> 00:21:44.410
just meet with folks to get a consult on how

00:21:44.410 --> 00:21:47.109
you could solve that problem. So to make, let's

00:21:47.109 --> 00:21:49.329
say, that staffing software, which is... very

00:21:49.329 --> 00:21:52.130
complex, takes a ton of different systems and

00:21:52.130 --> 00:21:55.589
rules to work together to say now the right butt

00:21:55.589 --> 00:21:58.589
is in the right seat. If that's not set up correctly,

00:21:58.789 --> 00:22:01.450
it's very painful. And if you have to do workarounds

00:22:01.450 --> 00:22:04.130
on that process, now you're impacting staffing

00:22:04.130 --> 00:22:06.490
and the accountability for the day because it

00:22:06.490 --> 00:22:09.029
might not be reflected in the roster. And then

00:22:09.029 --> 00:22:11.609
you also are likely impacting pay because you're

00:22:11.609 --> 00:22:14.430
creating workarounds and different scenarios

00:22:14.430 --> 00:22:17.230
like shift trades, for example, are quite manual

00:22:17.230 --> 00:22:19.880
for how folks have to remember to exclude them

00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:22.319
than for the folks that we're trading off at

00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:25.220
a different pay code that is all automated for

00:22:25.220 --> 00:22:27.799
us for example so it's on the onboarding part

00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:30.480
and making sure you're set up to know we can

00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:32.920
actually automate that pay code change you don't

00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:35.039
need to worry about that from a workflow point

00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:37.880
of view We even can often reduce the number of

00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:40.680
pay codes that departments have by up to 20 %

00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:43.400
to 30%, even out of the gate. We're doing with

00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:45.920
one customer we've had for a year, another payroll

00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:48.079
reduction because they realize they can use even

00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:50.839
less. So when you think of that change management

00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:53.240
piece, we don't want to have folks bite off too

00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:55.539
much, but we lean in. We call it white glove

00:22:55.539 --> 00:22:58.259
onboarding to make sure that you have a concierge

00:22:58.259 --> 00:22:59.799
essentially walking you through the process.

00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:02.920
Everyone at the company speaks firefighter so

00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:04.740
that when you have an issue come up, it's not.

00:23:05.130 --> 00:23:07.109
What's a shift trade? Could you explain what

00:23:07.109 --> 00:23:09.829
that means? Very, very frustrating for a customer

00:23:09.829 --> 00:23:12.690
paying thousands of dollars a year to not have

00:23:12.690 --> 00:23:14.549
a customer support person who knows what they're

00:23:14.549 --> 00:23:17.170
talking about. So it's the onboarding process,

00:23:17.410 --> 00:23:20.029
a lot of workarounds in the product, and then

00:23:20.029 --> 00:23:25.190
the support thereafter as the continuum of where

00:23:25.190 --> 00:23:27.509
folks struggle. And then where we've seen a lot

00:23:27.509 --> 00:23:30.049
of maybe not the biggest pain they're switching

00:23:30.049 --> 00:23:32.589
for now, but the folks that are more forward

00:23:32.589 --> 00:23:35.569
thinking say, I know these vendors are private

00:23:35.569 --> 00:23:38.750
equity owned, not innovating for me, regardless

00:23:38.750 --> 00:23:41.690
of the service, the product will not continue

00:23:41.690 --> 00:23:45.170
to evolve for me. So how do I plan for the future

00:23:45.170 --> 00:23:49.150
with a different vendor like StationWise? So

00:23:49.150 --> 00:23:51.529
you came in, is it three, three and a half years

00:23:51.529 --> 00:23:54.009
ago? Is that right? Yep, just about. So most

00:23:54.009 --> 00:23:56.029
of that was really building and designing, as

00:23:56.029 --> 00:23:57.430
you could imagine, to make sure it was ready

00:23:57.430 --> 00:23:59.430
for prime time. But yeah, launched about a year

00:23:59.430 --> 00:24:01.490
ago with the, we're live with real customers

00:24:01.490 --> 00:24:04.650
and replacing what they use. So you brought in

00:24:04.650 --> 00:24:07.769
a fresh set of eyes and you came in at an exciting

00:24:07.769 --> 00:24:10.089
time when it comes to technology with AI and

00:24:10.089 --> 00:24:13.250
some of these other areas. Talk to me about that.

00:24:13.549 --> 00:24:17.250
What has been this evolution of technology that's

00:24:17.250 --> 00:24:20.190
changed the way that we're able to use this kind

00:24:20.190 --> 00:24:24.329
of staffing software in 2025? So I'll give you

00:24:24.329 --> 00:24:27.150
an example from Puget Sound in Washington State.

00:24:27.889 --> 00:24:30.890
Their assistant chief, we had met 18 months ago,

00:24:31.069 --> 00:24:34.569
just doing an initial demo. And his feedback

00:24:34.569 --> 00:24:37.269
was, he told us this later, but he said at the

00:24:37.269 --> 00:24:40.769
time to their other chief, this is really exciting

00:24:40.769 --> 00:24:42.650
if they can pull it off, but they've got a lot

00:24:42.650 --> 00:24:45.609
of work ahead of them. We met them again in March

00:24:45.609 --> 00:24:48.250
of this year. They were very impressed by the

00:24:48.250 --> 00:24:50.490
progress and wanted to consider actually replacing

00:24:50.490 --> 00:24:54.369
their current tool. They needed vacation auctions

00:24:54.369 --> 00:24:57.200
to work well. it kind of works with their current

00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:59.339
vendor but they run them every year and have

00:24:59.339 --> 00:25:01.880
a lot of custom rules they can't really visualize

00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:05.440
what's going on auditing is possible but a lot

00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:07.660
of clicks and just not as intuitive as you'd

00:25:07.660 --> 00:25:10.680
want it to be more importantly those rules not

00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:12.759
being followed now means you have workarounds

00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:16.119
for everybody in the vacation pick process so

00:25:16.119 --> 00:25:19.220
we custom built for them and a few other agencies

00:25:19.220 --> 00:25:22.299
our vacation bidding module then to say we'll

00:25:22.299 --> 00:25:24.650
have it ready this fall We have two agencies,

00:25:24.650 --> 00:25:26.849
not including Puget Sound, actually running those

00:25:26.849 --> 00:25:28.769
auctions right now successfully, which is very

00:25:28.769 --> 00:25:31.190
exciting. But their assistant chief said in the

00:25:31.190 --> 00:25:33.829
September demo, when we showed them in person

00:25:33.829 --> 00:25:36.880
their auctions. We had folks, you know, log in

00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:38.960
with their phones and actually get the notifications

00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:42.259
of the auctions coming through. He emailed us

00:25:42.259 --> 00:25:45.079
after and said, you have to be using AI to develop

00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:47.819
the product or to move more quickly. And we absolutely

00:25:47.819 --> 00:25:50.200
do for designing and for writing a lot of the

00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:52.799
initial code, especially if it's simpler. But

00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:55.140
everyone has it. We always have humans that will

00:25:55.140 --> 00:25:58.140
actually audit it, do code reviews after and

00:25:58.140 --> 00:26:01.339
then do extensive QA. And even some of that QA,

00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:03.720
we can automate by doing automated testing and

00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:06.220
clicking through the product on hundreds of devices

00:26:06.220 --> 00:26:09.599
at once. So we try to use AI or automation. I

00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:12.119
know AI is the buzzword now, but workflow automation,

00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:14.759
we do a ton of on our side too, to make sure

00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:16.700
that we're more efficient or saving time and

00:26:16.700 --> 00:26:19.440
can automate processes just like we do for customers.

00:26:19.619 --> 00:26:22.720
So on building things quickly, that's one. On

00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:25.480
another, we're building health dashboards and

00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:28.599
tracking sleep deprivation and exposures, for

00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:30.920
example. We're adding a phone number to call

00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:34.119
peer support. All of that we're building is in

00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:37.950
an AI tool. having engineers write a single line

00:26:37.950 --> 00:26:40.470
of code until we've worked with customers on

00:26:40.470 --> 00:26:43.390
when you click, what should it go to? We're building

00:26:43.390 --> 00:26:47.150
a real product, just the front end with an AI

00:26:47.150 --> 00:26:50.650
tool that I can then design with customers, even

00:26:50.650 --> 00:26:53.829
in person, live with them so they can see the

00:26:53.829 --> 00:26:56.390
changes and react to them. That is a game changer

00:26:56.390 --> 00:26:59.130
when you think of previously, even for us a year

00:26:59.130 --> 00:27:02.460
ago, it was go to a designer. hey, designer,

00:27:02.619 --> 00:27:04.680
here's all of this customer context because you

00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:07.539
can't join that meeting. Now, please design something.

00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:09.559
And then we have feedback sessions internally.

00:27:09.859 --> 00:27:12.079
We've completely flipped that around where the

00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:14.279
feedback and design is happening with customers.

00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:17.240
Then our designers figure out, here are the other

00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:19.740
considerations. Here's how this fits into our

00:27:19.740 --> 00:27:22.559
tool or how we make it more fit the data schema

00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:25.299
that we need, for example. So that's been a huge,

00:27:25.380 --> 00:27:27.480
huge change for us building net new features

00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:29.640
or products that aren't necessarily going to

00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:31.700
be built immediately, but make sure we build

00:27:31.700 --> 00:27:34.180
them correctly. And as you could imagine with

00:27:34.180 --> 00:27:36.839
health and wellness tracking, we want to make

00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:39.220
sure it's built for practitioners and by them,

00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:42.019
not, yeah, this will be a silver bullet to solve

00:27:42.019 --> 00:27:44.619
your mental health issues or all your sleep problems.

00:27:44.839 --> 00:27:47.319
Just more making it clear what can we do and

00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:49.700
building it with folks. AI makes all of that

00:27:49.700 --> 00:27:54.049
incredibly easy, not just possible. So when you

00:27:54.049 --> 00:27:57.230
and I first spoke, you could tell my ears perked

00:27:57.230 --> 00:28:00.309
up when we started talking about the analysis

00:28:00.309 --> 00:28:03.309
of expenditure and then obviously the health

00:28:03.309 --> 00:28:04.809
side. And I want to get to the health and mental

00:28:04.809 --> 00:28:08.630
health in a minute. But when I'm having this

00:28:08.630 --> 00:28:12.029
conversation about trying to make the 42 -hour

00:28:12.029 --> 00:28:14.470
workweek standardized across the whole country,

00:28:14.609 --> 00:28:18.650
so the 24 -72, one of the biggest knee -jerk

00:28:18.650 --> 00:28:20.890
reactions is, well, we can't even afford it now.

00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:23.319
And the response is, you know, well, then go

00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:25.720
back and look at how much you're spending on

00:28:25.720 --> 00:28:28.720
overtime. What is your staffing model? So how

00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:30.579
many vacant spots are there? So your retention

00:28:30.579 --> 00:28:32.799
rate as well. And there are other, there are

00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:34.299
other factors. I don't even want to talk about

00:28:34.299 --> 00:28:37.440
that in the moment, but these, you know, these,

00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:40.180
these, wherever they are in these departments,

00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:41.839
it takes them a long time. They have to go to

00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:44.240
the finance department and you know, there are

00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:46.240
these barriers and also are they being told the

00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:49.470
truth? There's another one too. I think the first

00:28:49.470 --> 00:28:51.990
place to start is just simply talk to me about

00:28:51.990 --> 00:28:54.650
the kind of reports that can be run from this

00:28:54.650 --> 00:28:57.789
and can, you know, a chief or a battalion chief,

00:28:57.869 --> 00:29:00.630
whoever's able to run the report, be able to

00:29:00.630 --> 00:29:04.450
find out exactly how much these vacancies in

00:29:04.450 --> 00:29:06.569
these departments are costing them annually.

00:29:07.250 --> 00:29:11.420
Yeah. When you think of where we are similar

00:29:11.420 --> 00:29:14.019
to other tools, you can export all your staffing

00:29:14.019 --> 00:29:17.240
data and run a report and filter out certain

00:29:17.240 --> 00:29:19.859
pay codes or project codes you want to. So you

00:29:19.859 --> 00:29:22.099
can do all of that quote reporting that folks

00:29:22.099 --> 00:29:24.519
are used to, where it'll spit out a file and

00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:26.480
then you'll analyze it. And it's usually just

00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:29.500
based on work hours. What we're now doing is

00:29:29.500 --> 00:29:32.500
more of an analytics dashboard for how many hours

00:29:32.500 --> 00:29:34.619
are folks working and showing that in a graph.

00:29:34.859 --> 00:29:37.119
So instead of your report spitting out a total,

00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:40.000
You can see by the month or even by the pay period

00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:42.440
if you zoom in enough, for example. So showing

00:29:42.440 --> 00:29:44.420
you the historical trends of what you're spending

00:29:44.420 --> 00:29:47.380
in hours right now is what we already do with

00:29:47.380 --> 00:29:49.720
our payroll analytics. What we're working on

00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:52.440
right now is very exciting. Pulling in that fully

00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:55.619
loaded cost from your payroll tool, each pay

00:29:55.619 --> 00:29:59.059
code for each pay period for each user. So saying,

00:29:59.099 --> 00:30:01.480
here's what this overtime for this step five

00:30:01.480 --> 00:30:04.400
captain cost according to your payroll tool.

00:30:04.829 --> 00:30:07.369
And we'll pull that in. So now you mentioned

00:30:07.369 --> 00:30:10.210
being able to track overtime, for example, even

00:30:10.210 --> 00:30:13.309
proactively saying, I want to see what my overtime

00:30:13.309 --> 00:30:16.710
budget is right now at this time. That should

00:30:16.710 --> 00:30:19.650
be possible. There's no reason it's not. But

00:30:19.650 --> 00:30:22.730
it takes three weeks, we found, for many chiefs,

00:30:22.730 --> 00:30:24.690
especially at larger departments, to run a report,

00:30:24.869 --> 00:30:27.250
to go to payroll, like you mentioned, to work

00:30:27.250 --> 00:30:29.410
around everybody's schedules, to work around

00:30:29.410 --> 00:30:32.369
the transparency concerns and or data discrepancies

00:30:32.369 --> 00:30:34.630
of, well, we count it as this and we count it

00:30:34.630 --> 00:30:38.079
as this. that shouldn't happen when you think

00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:40.039
of everything being standard and tying to your

00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:42.759
budgets so we can actually map each pay code

00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:45.740
to a city budget line and say this is the budget

00:30:45.740 --> 00:30:48.559
this one will go to or let you set cases where

00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:51.220
that will vary of course too but we try to make

00:30:51.220 --> 00:30:53.440
that part easy to track in real time the dollars

00:30:54.109 --> 00:30:57.150
And then now the future planning or the scenario

00:30:57.150 --> 00:30:59.869
of what would have happened if we had a different

00:30:59.869 --> 00:31:02.890
schedule of this year becomes possible. So like

00:31:02.890 --> 00:31:05.930
you mentioned, if we want to switch to a 24 -72

00:31:05.930 --> 00:31:09.930
schedule and we're at a 48 -96 like most of California,

00:31:10.269 --> 00:31:12.890
how much will that cost my specific department?

00:31:13.579 --> 00:31:16.400
That will depend on vacancy rate. Maybe if I

00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:19.200
have a ton of extra floaters or rovers, I don't

00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:22.299
need to hire as much. If I'm constantly understaffed,

00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:24.420
that's probably even more reason to hire anyway.

00:31:24.700 --> 00:31:26.839
So what is the case that we're going to make

00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:29.319
and how can the tool help you make it in terms

00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:32.710
of now that cost? is reasonably calculated for

00:31:32.710 --> 00:31:35.170
you. And it could even be a high, medium, and

00:31:35.170 --> 00:31:37.809
low case because overtime obviously varies and

00:31:37.809 --> 00:31:40.690
you can't predict future overtime spend based

00:31:40.690 --> 00:31:43.289
on past data. Insurance companies have learned

00:31:43.289 --> 00:31:45.130
that with wildfire risk. So I think that would

00:31:45.130 --> 00:31:47.650
be foolish to say, here's guaranteed your overtime

00:31:47.650 --> 00:31:50.650
spend, but to give you a few scenarios and eventually

00:31:50.650 --> 00:31:52.950
let you play with the variables as a fire chief

00:31:52.950 --> 00:31:56.109
or as an analyst becomes really powerful because

00:31:56.109 --> 00:31:58.819
the payroll folks can also have that view. it's

00:31:58.819 --> 00:32:01.359
about transparency and we don't bill by user

00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:04.680
so if you want to add city it or payroll or give

00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:07.220
those folks accounts you can control the permissions

00:32:07.220 --> 00:32:09.480
and just let them view the analytics for example

00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:12.539
so then there can be a more shared view where

00:32:12.539 --> 00:32:14.799
you can filter and download that data and say

00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:17.599
yes payroll this is the right info or you know

00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:19.579
city finance depending on the department size

00:32:20.700 --> 00:32:22.720
See, I think this is so important and we'll get

00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:24.740
into all the other things that you can do with

00:32:24.740 --> 00:32:27.099
the wearables and, you know, the autonomy of

00:32:27.099 --> 00:32:29.420
the first responder to be able to take trades

00:32:29.420 --> 00:32:31.160
and days off and all those things. I think they're

00:32:31.160 --> 00:32:34.240
very important. But as you alluded to the step

00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:37.339
five captain, when people say, well, we had this

00:32:37.339 --> 00:32:39.359
many hours of overtime, it's like, well, that's

00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:41.640
great. But who filled it? You had a, you know,

00:32:41.660 --> 00:32:44.460
a probie. that had to take some time off or you

00:32:44.460 --> 00:32:46.579
know you've got these vacant spots and you've

00:32:46.579 --> 00:32:49.279
got these these uh veteran firefighters that

00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:51.940
are trying to pad their last highest three paychecks

00:32:51.940 --> 00:32:55.420
for their drop or their retirement um and so

00:32:55.420 --> 00:32:57.240
they're all chomping at the bit for all the overtime

00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:00.640
and they're earning twice as much as a new firefighter

00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:03.400
so being able to pull these reports you can actually

00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:05.660
see what it's costing you and then i would imagine

00:33:05.660 --> 00:33:07.740
as well you know people that are off workman's

00:33:07.740 --> 00:33:10.099
comp that kind of thing you know how many people

00:33:10.700 --> 00:33:13.319
Are we getting injured? And pull reports so that

00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:16.180
you can really put in front of you, this is the

00:33:16.180 --> 00:33:18.400
downstream cost of the way that we're doing it

00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:20.759
now. And then like you said, can you forecast,

00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:23.160
well, look, if all these spots were filled, and

00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:25.819
let's say we had fitness standards and a strength

00:33:25.819 --> 00:33:27.859
and conditioning program, so we mitigated injury,

00:33:28.099 --> 00:33:30.819
what would be the projected savings? I think

00:33:30.819 --> 00:33:32.859
those are really important numbers for people

00:33:32.859 --> 00:33:35.259
to start advocating for their own workforce.

00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:38.519
Right. Absolutely. And the only thing I'll add

00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:40.980
to that. It's not just about running reports.

00:33:41.240 --> 00:33:43.220
So our report view will let you run scenarios

00:33:43.220 --> 00:33:45.839
and the analytics are helpful. We're building

00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:48.000
our rules engine a bit differently where you'll

00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:51.099
be able to set automatic alerts. So let's say

00:33:51.099 --> 00:33:54.680
if a user is on workers comp for 28 consecutive

00:33:54.680 --> 00:33:57.980
days, then change their pay code to this pay

00:33:57.980 --> 00:34:01.279
code and alert payroll admin and fire chief because

00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:03.799
now they're switching to sick time and maybe

00:34:03.799 --> 00:34:06.539
the user too. But what are the like automations

00:34:06.539 --> 00:34:09.960
you might do to alert yourself? proactively when

00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:12.519
certain things are happening or will, adding

00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:15.539
the spend to that, like when my overtime spend

00:34:15.539 --> 00:34:19.619
reaches 40%, but we're only 25 % of the way through

00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:21.920
the year can be really powerful. So it's not

00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:24.659
all on you to say, we just got back from a crazy

00:34:24.659 --> 00:34:26.800
strike team deployment and now I'm going to run

00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:29.199
reports. And even if those reports are faster,

00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:31.239
wouldn't it have been better to know while on

00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:33.380
the strike team so you can prep or at least let

00:34:33.380 --> 00:34:35.619
command staff know so you can handle it better

00:34:35.619 --> 00:34:37.590
when you're back? Those are the things we want

00:34:37.590 --> 00:34:39.829
to work on too, when you think of proactive versus,

00:34:39.869 --> 00:35:07.139
you know, reactive. Talk to me about the capability

00:35:07.139 --> 00:35:12.599
for this to show the extended sleep deprivation

00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:15.739
that some of the workforce are getting. So what

00:35:15.739 --> 00:35:17.679
we're starting with with the sleep deprivation

00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:19.500
tracking is actually just coming from Nearest.

00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:22.400
So the incident reports that folks are already

00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:25.320
filling out, though we focus on staffing, we're

00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:27.960
licensed as a Nearest vendor to take in all their

00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:31.280
Nearest data. So let's say you use an incident

00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:33.800
reporting tool. That's your Nearest vendor number

00:35:33.800 --> 00:35:36.579
one. You can actually just list our station wise

00:35:36.579 --> 00:35:39.000
code as number two. And now we can pull in all

00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:41.599
your nearest reports as they're filed. So that

00:35:41.599 --> 00:35:44.639
gives us who is the apparatus and the incident

00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:47.579
and all the info for it. So that's exposures

00:35:47.579 --> 00:35:50.619
and the times. Times are going to be really useful

00:35:50.619 --> 00:35:53.699
for the sleep deprivation piece. So on our side,

00:35:53.780 --> 00:35:57.559
what we're building is the only way to view where

00:35:57.559 --> 00:36:00.480
or who is on which incident. Nearest doesn't

00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.559
care about people. They will not put people,

00:36:02.579 --> 00:36:04.699
you know, you can put them optionally, but there's

00:36:04.699 --> 00:36:07.940
no people, you know, assignment on nearest. We

00:36:07.940 --> 00:36:10.300
only care about people in theory or, you know,

00:36:10.300 --> 00:36:12.820
staffing tools do, but don't have that incident

00:36:12.820 --> 00:36:15.940
tie in. So what we're building is here's all

00:36:15.940 --> 00:36:18.559
your nearest incidents that come into StationWise.

00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:21.559
We just pull those in automatically. We're already

00:36:21.559 --> 00:36:23.960
sending to your incident reporting tool the roster,

00:36:24.139 --> 00:36:27.880
so we'll keep populating that. But some folks,

00:36:27.980 --> 00:36:29.920
especially at night or if they're doing splits,

00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:33.139
might not be split on the roster, but they might

00:36:33.139 --> 00:36:35.179
ride out on the ambulance and go out on different

00:36:35.179 --> 00:36:37.440
calls than they're assigned on the roster. And

00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:40.139
that's universal across departments. So we're

00:36:40.139 --> 00:36:42.659
building a view for you to say. actually, this

00:36:42.659 --> 00:36:46.320
person was or was not on this incident. So now

00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:48.820
we will be the source of truth on who was actually

00:36:48.820 --> 00:36:51.559
on each incident, not just the butt in the seat.

00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:53.880
And that'll still be automated, but you can then

00:36:53.880 --> 00:36:56.119
move those folks or they could say, actually,

00:36:56.179 --> 00:36:58.579
chief, I wasn't on that incident. And then you

00:36:58.579 --> 00:37:00.639
can accept that change request, for example.

00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:03.059
So still going through approvals, but then putting

00:37:03.059 --> 00:37:05.840
it on both users and admin. So it's not on one

00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:07.780
person, you know, to manually move everybody

00:37:07.780 --> 00:37:09.480
around the incidents if they weren't on the right

00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:12.469
one. that's going to be really powerful for saying

00:37:12.469 --> 00:37:16.550
now John Smith was on this apparatus at this

00:37:16.550 --> 00:37:19.570
time and we know with certainty. So think, for

00:37:19.570 --> 00:37:22.750
example, just on the sleep side. I'll talk about

00:37:22.750 --> 00:37:25.210
incident reports first, but for sleep, we can

00:37:25.210 --> 00:37:27.829
know the timestamp of when each apparatus that

00:37:27.829 --> 00:37:30.389
person was out went out on calls. So we could

00:37:30.389 --> 00:37:32.730
think of it as the number of interruptions during

00:37:32.730 --> 00:37:35.320
their sleep window. We could think of it as the,

00:37:35.380 --> 00:37:37.519
because they're getting paged out for those at

00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:40.900
the very least, the number of the minimum amount

00:37:40.900 --> 00:37:43.280
of hours they could have slept or max, I should

00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:45.820
say. So if you could have slept at most four

00:37:45.820 --> 00:37:48.039
hours, because that was the longest gap between

00:37:48.039 --> 00:37:50.679
your calls, now you're in red. Maybe if you're

00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:53.219
six or more, you're yellow or four to six, you're

00:37:53.219 --> 00:37:55.619
yellow. But being able to choose your variables

00:37:55.619 --> 00:37:58.519
and define those ranges is what we can work on.

00:37:58.780 --> 00:38:01.119
All of that data is already available. There

00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:04.679
shouldn't be enter the info, entering your exposures,

00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:06.579
for example. When I hear of departments doing

00:38:06.579 --> 00:38:08.900
that, that's a big reason we're building the

00:38:08.900 --> 00:38:10.840
health dashboards for some of the first agencies.

00:38:11.179 --> 00:38:13.960
Why do you have to self -report when Nearest

00:38:13.960 --> 00:38:16.400
is tracking those exposures? Well, because the

00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:18.340
incident reports, again, don't bring in that

00:38:18.340 --> 00:38:21.059
people view. So this is where more of my data

00:38:21.059 --> 00:38:23.420
analytics excitement comes in, but we have all

00:38:23.420 --> 00:38:26.039
the personnel info. We pull training records

00:38:26.039 --> 00:38:28.420
in from their training tool, incident reporting.

00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:31.679
you know records in there and then that can let

00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:33.980
us track the narrative as well were you out on

00:38:33.980 --> 00:38:36.440
a traumatic call that mentioned a juvenile uh

00:38:36.440 --> 00:38:38.460
was it one that you flagged as traumatic for

00:38:38.460 --> 00:38:41.019
whatever reason maybe it's just a red green yellow

00:38:41.019 --> 00:38:43.260
smiley face you're just like don't want to talk

00:38:43.260 --> 00:38:45.380
about it this sucked how do you make it easy

00:38:45.380 --> 00:38:47.579
for a firefighter to actually give that feedback

00:38:47.579 --> 00:38:50.000
and not well this call was very traumatic and

00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:51.800
here's why because no one's going to fill that

00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:55.159
out of course so that feedback loop will be really

00:38:55.159 --> 00:38:57.780
powerful on what other pieces we can add. But

00:38:57.780 --> 00:38:59.760
just starting on sleep and exposures already

00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:01.940
can obviously give folks a lot of control over

00:39:01.940 --> 00:39:05.000
their data, like you mentioned on the glucose

00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:07.980
monitor. How can I view that I have not slept

00:39:07.980 --> 00:39:11.039
well? Maybe I can turn on or off proactive alerts

00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:13.840
that say, you just exceeded your max work hours

00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:16.750
and we're on a mandatory shift. You had one call

00:39:16.750 --> 00:39:19.110
we would flag as traumatic. Here's an intervention

00:39:19.110 --> 00:39:21.710
of, you know, Nidra yoga where you could practice

00:39:21.710 --> 00:39:24.570
breathing and sleep meditation work. Whatever

00:39:24.570 --> 00:39:26.730
the interventions are that work for you or that

00:39:26.730 --> 00:39:28.949
we would recommend, we can start to build based

00:39:28.949 --> 00:39:31.489
on data. But obviously that's more if folks want

00:39:31.489 --> 00:39:33.630
to opt in because it will never be, you know,

00:39:33.650 --> 00:39:36.070
big brother watching over you. It's more, yes,

00:39:36.190 --> 00:39:38.670
I choose to share my health data because the

00:39:38.670 --> 00:39:41.230
number one thing is both making sure it works

00:39:41.230 --> 00:39:43.380
for fire chiefs and they're excited. but it's

00:39:43.380 --> 00:39:45.739
not big brother watching over you, especially

00:39:45.739 --> 00:39:47.820
that's why we're not starting with wearables

00:39:47.820 --> 00:39:50.440
when you think of being tracked or what folks

00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:52.840
see. And there's a lot of trust that you want

00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:55.360
to build before that to say, now give us your

00:39:55.360 --> 00:39:58.079
heart rate data and we'll actually standardize

00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:00.469
what that means. trickier to do with hardware

00:40:00.469 --> 00:40:02.349
where they you know measure in different ways

00:40:02.349 --> 00:40:04.909
so i want to make sure it's meaningful from the

00:40:04.909 --> 00:40:07.010
start and then we can add more but you can obviously

00:40:07.010 --> 00:40:08.969
see a lot of ways that could grow when you think

00:40:08.969 --> 00:40:11.869
of just even adding a phone number with a button

00:40:11.869 --> 00:40:14.289
to call peer support is one other feature we

00:40:14.289 --> 00:40:16.030
were asked for where it's now bringing a lot

00:40:16.030 --> 00:40:18.469
of that health information into one place instead

00:40:18.469 --> 00:40:21.210
of a link that hopefully they saved or you know

00:40:21.210 --> 00:40:24.940
a pin up on one of the stations I really like

00:40:24.940 --> 00:40:27.420
the idea of just the metaphor of the smiley face

00:40:27.420 --> 00:40:30.500
for a second, because you might have one person

00:40:30.500 --> 00:40:33.860
that goes to an MCI in a minivan full of kids

00:40:33.860 --> 00:40:36.679
who are all killed, and they're okay. They didn't

00:40:36.679 --> 00:40:38.440
enjoy the call at all, of course, but they're

00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:40.980
okay. And then you can have someone who's got

00:40:40.980 --> 00:40:47.199
28 years on, just goes on a pediatric, what do

00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:49.820
we call it? DOA, basically. I'm thinking of the

00:40:49.820 --> 00:40:54.280
word now. And that particular one, is crushing

00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:56.440
for them because maybe they just lost you know

00:40:56.440 --> 00:40:58.320
their parent and they held their hand as they

00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:01.780
passed after a cancer diagnosis so what doesn't

00:41:01.780 --> 00:41:04.739
seem very traumatic to us you know as far as

00:41:04.739 --> 00:41:07.199
you know on the spectrum of trauma calls that

00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:08.980
might be horrendous for that person it might

00:41:08.980 --> 00:41:11.019
just be you know the crib that they had in the

00:41:11.019 --> 00:41:13.159
house reminded of you know them losing a child

00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:15.559
three years before who knows so they have the

00:41:15.559 --> 00:41:19.110
ability to just say i'm not doing so well and

00:41:19.110 --> 00:41:22.309
then that initiating some opportunities for them

00:41:22.309 --> 00:41:26.130
to reach out as you said you know privately themselves

00:41:26.130 --> 00:41:29.329
i think that's a phenomenal i really do because

00:41:29.329 --> 00:41:31.469
that that way you don't have to sit at a firehouse

00:41:31.469 --> 00:41:34.150
table and say that one really stung if you're

00:41:34.150 --> 00:41:35.809
in a group that maybe you don't feel comfortable

00:41:35.809 --> 00:41:37.909
with it one one would hope that you would you'd

00:41:37.909 --> 00:41:39.690
be able just to talk but we know that's not the

00:41:39.690 --> 00:41:43.150
case in in some stations so the anonymity of

00:41:43.150 --> 00:41:46.440
just being able to initiate a cascade of different

00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:48.619
options by saying, yeah, you know what? That

00:41:48.619 --> 00:41:51.099
wasn't, that was not a good call for me. I love

00:41:51.099 --> 00:41:53.159
that. You get a prompt to say, here's a phone

00:41:53.159 --> 00:41:55.079
number or like, here's the button, literally

00:41:55.079 --> 00:41:57.619
click this one button and it will call your specific

00:41:57.619 --> 00:41:59.739
peer support line that you can have, you know,

00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:01.360
whenever you need to talk to folks, if that's

00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:04.000
a resource you all have. Totally. Yeah, absolutely.

00:42:04.679 --> 00:42:06.760
Well, another thing I think that does a huge

00:42:06.760 --> 00:42:08.800
injustice is they'll say, well, they only ran

00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:13.139
three calls. And what they need to know is, firstly,

00:42:13.260 --> 00:42:14.739
what were the length of the calls? Like some

00:42:14.739 --> 00:42:16.659
of the medics here. Start and end time, important.

00:42:17.159 --> 00:42:19.400
Yeah. So, you know, it's changed now. We've got

00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:21.340
a trauma center, but the medics here in the county

00:42:21.340 --> 00:42:24.500
used to have to transport to Shands. So if they're

00:42:24.500 --> 00:42:27.739
out in the national forest, their round time,

00:42:27.940 --> 00:42:30.199
just as far as the actual transport time, would

00:42:30.199 --> 00:42:32.460
be close to three hours. And then you've got

00:42:32.460 --> 00:42:35.840
time in the VR. So, you know, one call is not

00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:37.800
the same and that's not factoring in, you know,

00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:40.559
the target solutions training, working out, pulling

00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:43.099
hose, you know, doing blood pressure checks at

00:42:43.099 --> 00:42:46.019
the front door. So talk to me about, you know,

00:42:46.019 --> 00:42:48.880
extrapolating on single figure where they had

00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:52.820
a call into using some of this to show the actual

00:42:52.820 --> 00:42:55.659
workload of a first responder. Yeah, there's

00:42:55.659 --> 00:42:57.579
a lot of ways. Think of like the time horizon

00:42:57.579 --> 00:42:59.820
being what you could vary. Do I want to see how

00:42:59.820 --> 00:43:02.989
this person's doing on this one shift? over a

00:43:02.989 --> 00:43:05.510
longer period and then there's types of info

00:43:05.510 --> 00:43:07.690
you can see so do i want to see how they've been

00:43:07.690 --> 00:43:10.329
sleeping according to nearest we're not you know

00:43:10.329 --> 00:43:13.170
doing self -reported sleep yet um but how according

00:43:13.170 --> 00:43:16.440
to nearest have i you know has my sleep duration

00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:19.500
been? Where's that timeline of what traumatic

00:43:19.500 --> 00:43:21.739
calls I've been on? Whether that's we flagged

00:43:21.739 --> 00:43:24.099
it because it was a juvenile or maybe because

00:43:24.099 --> 00:43:27.260
you said, you know, big red frowny face and you

00:43:27.260 --> 00:43:29.639
can see a timestamp of when those happened. But

00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:32.260
the challenge is also making it anonymous. So

00:43:32.260 --> 00:43:35.440
folks will actually use the resources. What we've

00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:37.619
learned from a lot of fire chiefs that have more

00:43:37.619 --> 00:43:41.000
mental health resources, one chief, for example,

00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:44.289
in Virginia said, my station that has my mental

00:43:44.289 --> 00:43:47.449
health resources, I have not gone to in four

00:43:47.449 --> 00:43:51.449
years. It took two years of me not going by and

00:43:51.449 --> 00:43:54.829
walking by the room, which could violate confidentiality

00:43:54.829 --> 00:43:57.190
before people started trusting that I would no

00:43:57.190 --> 00:43:59.889
longer walk by. And he'd made it very clear why

00:43:59.889 --> 00:44:03.079
he wasn't going from day one. two years is the

00:44:03.079 --> 00:44:05.900
stigma and the change of, great, now I can trust

00:44:05.900 --> 00:44:08.760
that this won't impact my career. So we do not

00:44:08.760 --> 00:44:11.039
take that anonymity piece lightly either, where

00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:13.840
I don't think the important part is oversharing

00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:15.659
with the battalion chief to say, hey, chief,

00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:18.320
this person's struggling. I think that helps

00:44:18.320 --> 00:44:21.119
a lot in some scenarios where the user is also

00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:23.739
okay with that. And maybe from nearest or things

00:44:23.739 --> 00:44:25.750
that battalion chief could find anyway. Great.

00:44:26.010 --> 00:44:28.670
But if it's me saying this was triggering to

00:44:28.670 --> 00:44:31.150
me, then maybe I have the option to say, I don't,

00:44:31.150 --> 00:44:33.130
if this is just for me to say, I want to trigger

00:44:33.130 --> 00:44:35.690
my interventions, but nobody can see it and it's

00:44:35.690 --> 00:44:38.429
actually anonymous versus I'm okay notifying

00:44:38.429 --> 00:44:41.610
folks. Maybe I can change an anonymous one to

00:44:41.610 --> 00:44:43.889
notifying later. If I say, you know what, I've

00:44:43.889 --> 00:44:46.130
gone to peer support and I'm okay with more people

00:44:46.130 --> 00:44:48.429
knowing, but whatever that looks like is also

00:44:48.429 --> 00:44:50.750
a really important part for the user to choose

00:44:50.750 --> 00:44:52.869
what the admin can actually go through, regardless

00:44:52.869 --> 00:44:57.289
of that time horizon. So that's kind of the wellness

00:44:57.289 --> 00:45:01.150
and then hopefully finding data to push the move

00:45:01.150 --> 00:45:04.309
to a healthier fire department. Let's start with

00:45:04.309 --> 00:45:06.090
each of the ranks now. From the firefighter's

00:45:06.090 --> 00:45:08.150
perspective, as you mentioned, we've got trade

00:45:08.150 --> 00:45:11.489
bids, we've got vacation requests, we've got

00:45:11.489 --> 00:45:16.250
PTO, all these different things. What are some

00:45:16.250 --> 00:45:19.789
of the kind of highlights of the station -wise

00:45:19.789 --> 00:45:21.909
technology that you've got now that maybe are

00:45:21.909 --> 00:45:23.530
different to some of the platforms that people

00:45:23.530 --> 00:45:26.340
are currently on? So my dad and uncle are two

00:45:26.340 --> 00:45:28.380
of the least tech savvy firefighters I know.

00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:31.800
If you say the word data, my dad will literally

00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:36.860
leave the room. So the biggest thing they emphasized

00:45:36.860 --> 00:45:39.900
was don't make me remember a new password and

00:45:39.900 --> 00:45:42.739
don't make me log into a desktop. I have so many

00:45:42.739 --> 00:45:45.150
tools that don't work on a phone. So there's

00:45:45.150 --> 00:45:47.449
plenty of things we've made really easy. We call

00:45:47.449 --> 00:45:50.309
it firefighter proof for a reason. We say, try

00:45:50.309 --> 00:45:52.989
to break it and give it your all, but we'll block

00:45:52.989 --> 00:45:55.210
you from doing a shift trade three days before

00:45:55.210 --> 00:45:57.230
if you're not allowed to based on your rules.

00:45:57.590 --> 00:46:00.250
We enforce maximum consecutive work hour limits.

00:46:00.590 --> 00:46:03.469
We can show your accrual banks in the tool. So

00:46:03.469 --> 00:46:05.449
you can say, I actually don't have enough sick

00:46:05.449 --> 00:46:08.190
hours, for example, to request this day off.

00:46:08.590 --> 00:46:10.829
If that's what's in my bank. So we try to make

00:46:10.829 --> 00:46:12.769
it really easy for the user to both see what's

00:46:12.769 --> 00:46:15.110
happening. If you request time off from your

00:46:15.110 --> 00:46:17.590
phone, you immediately see this is not waiting

00:46:17.590 --> 00:46:20.489
for approval and it was auto approved or you're

00:46:20.489 --> 00:46:22.789
waiting for two approvers. Here's who those people

00:46:22.789 --> 00:46:24.889
are and when they're going to approve it. Because

00:46:24.889 --> 00:46:27.530
it might go first to captain, then to a battalion

00:46:27.530 --> 00:46:30.429
chief, for example. So as the user, no new phone

00:46:30.429 --> 00:46:33.030
or no new password needed. And it's way more

00:46:33.030 --> 00:46:35.780
user friendly entirely from your phone. We've

00:46:35.780 --> 00:46:38.380
also got a, if you want to run it on a desktop

00:46:38.380 --> 00:46:41.800
and get emails and texts as well, and you don't

00:46:41.800 --> 00:46:43.980
have a smartphone, we've designed it around that

00:46:43.980 --> 00:46:46.000
as well because there are some holdouts in some

00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:48.860
of the big departments, even in 2025, who insist

00:46:48.860 --> 00:46:51.559
on being pretty off the grid. So we've designed

00:46:51.559 --> 00:46:54.320
it around all of those fire use cases where the

00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:56.579
goal is you're already not spending a ton of

00:46:56.579 --> 00:46:59.239
time in the tool, but it's quite painful in some

00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:01.659
cases because you have to go outside or fill

00:47:01.659 --> 00:47:04.119
out separate reports. and then the other side

00:47:04.119 --> 00:47:06.480
for them is transparency and this goes for every

00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:09.219
user but firefighters especially can now view

00:47:09.219 --> 00:47:11.900
their position on staffing lists as of a date

00:47:11.900 --> 00:47:14.539
so i can go to any date on my phone and see how

00:47:14.539 --> 00:47:17.360
likely am i to get staffed to that shift and

00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:19.760
then i can also view my time card and sign it

00:47:19.760 --> 00:47:22.119
if you want some folks say we're going to sign

00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:24.639
in payroll this is just to view and export it

00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:27.079
and we don't need users to sign you can have

00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:31.210
users sign their own and or employees or admins,

00:47:31.210 --> 00:47:33.550
I should say, approve on top of that. So that

00:47:33.550 --> 00:47:35.730
kind of time card auditing and then viewing my

00:47:35.730 --> 00:47:38.369
time. Eventually, we can also hopefully show

00:47:38.369 --> 00:47:40.130
the pay as well because we'll pull that from

00:47:40.130 --> 00:47:42.909
the payroll tool where the user can toggle between

00:47:42.909 --> 00:47:46.030
hours and dollars too. Maybe not as a full pay

00:47:46.030 --> 00:47:49.010
stub, but here's what you made by pay code, including

00:47:49.010 --> 00:47:50.969
your benefits, for example, which we'll add in

00:47:50.969 --> 00:47:53.809
for that fully loaded cost. So all that transparency

00:47:53.809 --> 00:47:57.150
on your phone. Versus again, maybe your pay stubs,

00:47:57.150 --> 00:47:59.730
it's easier as a user, but most pay stubs are

00:47:59.730 --> 00:48:02.210
not easy to understand. In ours, for example,

00:48:02.210 --> 00:48:05.449
you can toggle between pay period and FLSA period

00:48:05.449 --> 00:48:09.650
if you're a firefighter on that phone. I like

00:48:09.650 --> 00:48:11.230
the fact that you can see lists. I don't know

00:48:11.230 --> 00:48:13.250
if it was you or someone else was telling me

00:48:13.250 --> 00:48:17.150
the other day that they had the list and the

00:48:17.150 --> 00:48:20.710
tendency was good to go to the people that constantly

00:48:20.710 --> 00:48:23.309
take overtime. I won't use the phrase on this

00:48:23.309 --> 00:48:27.050
particular conversation. And the one time that

00:48:27.050 --> 00:48:28.769
they just jumped straight to him rather than

00:48:28.769 --> 00:48:30.250
going through the list, there was a guy on the

00:48:30.250 --> 00:48:32.329
list that had never worked overtime and this

00:48:32.329 --> 00:48:35.889
time he wanted to. So, you know, I think that's

00:48:35.889 --> 00:48:38.190
it's not so much of an issue now because people

00:48:38.190 --> 00:48:40.369
are being forced to work over and over and over

00:48:40.369 --> 00:48:42.989
again. But when we get this back to where it

00:48:42.989 --> 00:48:45.210
should be, where overtime is once in a while,

00:48:45.269 --> 00:48:47.730
you know, that that's a very important thing.

00:48:47.789 --> 00:48:49.750
And there have been some underhand practices

00:48:49.750 --> 00:48:53.760
by certain, you know. you know, unions and, you

00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:56.519
know, the good old boy system as it were. So

00:48:56.519 --> 00:48:58.900
being able to have that full transparency that,

00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:01.099
yeah, no, they tried everyone ahead of you, you

00:49:01.099 --> 00:49:02.679
know, and then, you know, you took it or you

00:49:02.679 --> 00:49:05.320
denied it. I think that would alleviate a lot

00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:08.579
of, you know, headbanging in departments. and

00:49:08.579 --> 00:49:10.360
grievances really like we want to make sure that

00:49:10.360 --> 00:49:12.980
all of your rules are being followed so max number

00:49:12.980 --> 00:49:15.679
of actors allowed off max number you know max

00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:17.699
consecutive work hours with your minimum break

00:49:17.699 --> 00:49:20.420
you can always override those in our tool but

00:49:20.420 --> 00:49:22.500
we'll warn you here's the rule you're going to

00:49:22.500 --> 00:49:24.980
violate override it and then write a note so

00:49:24.980 --> 00:49:28.460
then you have a system of record for it too One

00:49:28.460 --> 00:49:31.420
of the things I loved about Anaheim, it was so

00:49:31.420 --> 00:49:34.099
autonomous. And again, one of the captains wrote

00:49:34.099 --> 00:49:36.860
that software, but it was coupled though with

00:49:36.860 --> 00:49:40.039
the way that the department thought. So I think

00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:43.800
it was literally before 5 p .m. the day before

00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:46.679
I could take the day off. That's how flexible

00:49:46.679 --> 00:49:49.239
it was. And we could project, nothing really

00:49:49.239 --> 00:49:51.440
went through the chiefs. The only thing that

00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:54.679
we did is if I was in battalion one and I got

00:49:54.679 --> 00:49:58.570
overtime in battalion two, firefighter there

00:49:58.570 --> 00:50:00.989
and myself could call the chief and say hey we're

00:50:00.989 --> 00:50:02.670
just going to stay on our own battalions if that's

00:50:02.670 --> 00:50:05.789
okay and stay in our own station so that it didn't

00:50:05.789 --> 00:50:09.710
have quite have that part down but I really like

00:50:09.710 --> 00:50:11.289
the paid leave system because that's what they

00:50:11.289 --> 00:50:13.070
did there wasn't sick there wasn't all these

00:50:13.070 --> 00:50:15.369
individual ones there was just paid leave and

00:50:15.369 --> 00:50:18.230
you used it however with all these different

00:50:18.230 --> 00:50:21.309
systems that you've been exposed to you know

00:50:21.309 --> 00:50:23.630
what do you find is the most versatile when it

00:50:23.630 --> 00:50:26.639
comes to staffing through this furry outside

00:50:26.639 --> 00:50:29.900
looking in lens that you have. And when you say

00:50:29.900 --> 00:50:31.659
versatile, do you mean in terms of like the tool

00:50:31.659 --> 00:50:33.840
or how to approach those, I guess, accrual banks

00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:36.920
with more like the rule side or the software

00:50:36.920 --> 00:50:41.420
side, I guess? I think really the labeling. So

00:50:41.420 --> 00:50:44.219
when, for example, you work for departments and

00:50:44.219 --> 00:50:47.400
it says sick time, you have to do that fake phone

00:50:47.400 --> 00:50:49.440
call where you're pretending that you're dying

00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:52.139
so that you can get your kid from preschool because...

00:50:52.360 --> 00:50:53.860
You know, you just got called and said that they

00:50:53.860 --> 00:50:56.500
got a snotty nose. Whereas in paid leave, you

00:50:56.500 --> 00:50:58.300
just took the time off and you didn't have to

00:50:58.300 --> 00:51:00.800
do any of that stuff. So the hours of the hours

00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:02.719
you accrue them, they're allowed to be used.

00:51:02.900 --> 00:51:05.480
But there's a lot more guilt and shame with sick

00:51:05.480 --> 00:51:07.980
time, for example, than paid leave or vacation.

00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:11.739
My personal opinion is just straight paid leave

00:51:11.739 --> 00:51:14.380
seems to be the most common sense if you truly

00:51:14.380 --> 00:51:17.739
trust your people. But, you know, from the staffing

00:51:17.739 --> 00:51:21.019
models that you've seen, what are the best ones

00:51:21.019 --> 00:51:23.619
that you've observed? Yeah, it makes a ton of

00:51:23.619 --> 00:51:26.119
sense. Like personal leave, paid leave, like

00:51:26.119 --> 00:51:28.460
making it clear it's a general category is common.

00:51:29.539 --> 00:51:33.420
Sick, we've seen commonly like sick and personal

00:51:33.420 --> 00:51:35.800
leave. So please only use your sick when you're

00:51:35.800 --> 00:51:38.139
sick. Most of your leave is in your personal

00:51:38.139 --> 00:51:40.239
leave bank, which helps the department track

00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:42.679
when are folks actually sick if they have enough

00:51:42.679 --> 00:51:45.820
of the latter. So definitely agreed on the labeling

00:51:45.820 --> 00:51:48.980
piece. And even it goes mental health and the

00:51:48.980 --> 00:51:51.909
stigma, for example. What if we show, even if

00:51:51.909 --> 00:51:54.309
you don't choose to submit it, you're not just

00:51:54.309 --> 00:51:56.110
annual physical, which we're already showing

00:51:56.110 --> 00:51:58.730
in our health dashboard, but also your mental

00:51:58.730 --> 00:52:02.110
assessment. So annual mental screening and making

00:52:02.110 --> 00:52:04.469
that more normalized. Even if it's not filled

00:52:04.469 --> 00:52:06.510
out, how do we show it on the front screen and

00:52:06.510 --> 00:52:09.309
say, that's perfectly normal? That was what one

00:52:09.309 --> 00:52:11.989
fire psychiatrist, for example, recommended that

00:52:11.989 --> 00:52:14.690
we add in terms of normalizing that language.

00:52:14.949 --> 00:52:17.809
So not saying I'm sick, the fake sick routine.

00:52:18.559 --> 00:52:21.440
I think the biggest thing that I've seen on the

00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:24.059
firefighter side is they're already stressed

00:52:24.059 --> 00:52:26.960
about the schedule in so many cases, especially

00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:29.920
those Gen Z folks. So we've started running surveys,

00:52:30.079 --> 00:52:33.000
for example, and as no surprise, found a lot

00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:36.079
of the folks under 35 or so are not nearly as

00:52:36.079 --> 00:52:39.019
motivated by money and salary and overtime as

00:52:39.019 --> 00:52:41.480
everybody else was. So this is causing a complete

00:52:41.480 --> 00:52:43.900
change in how folks think and prioritize about.

00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:46.199
what they think of staffing or how the shifts

00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:48.679
change and that whole arc of like you mentioned

00:52:48.679 --> 00:52:51.139
well i'll just take shifts when i retire but

00:52:51.139 --> 00:52:53.119
a lot of the older folks want to spend time with

00:52:53.119 --> 00:52:55.519
their kids or enjoy empty nesting they don't

00:52:55.519 --> 00:52:57.300
get to because they're getting mandatory in more

00:52:57.300 --> 00:53:00.780
too so a lot of the past expectations are also

00:53:00.780 --> 00:53:03.260
changing so you know again as much as the fire

00:53:03.260 --> 00:53:05.980
service doesn't like change it's constantly been

00:53:05.980 --> 00:53:08.179
evolving and that's the next one i see with how

00:53:08.179 --> 00:53:11.469
the younger members don't see things the same

00:53:11.469 --> 00:53:13.670
way with how they prioritize it. And we'll see

00:53:13.670 --> 00:53:17.530
maybe even in one department, a dichotomy of

00:53:17.530 --> 00:53:19.869
how folks view sick. I don't think Gen Z folks

00:53:19.869 --> 00:53:22.269
care about using sick time at all. I think they

00:53:22.269 --> 00:53:24.750
want whatever bank they have, but I've seen maybe

00:53:24.750 --> 00:53:27.489
the folks that are more career -minded or want

00:53:27.489 --> 00:53:30.530
to be on the officer track. Is this going to

00:53:30.530 --> 00:53:32.710
count against me if I'm now taking off sick?

00:53:32.909 --> 00:53:35.710
Maybe my wife can take off of work instead and

00:53:35.710 --> 00:53:38.269
I'll ask her. But that stress and fatigue that

00:53:38.269 --> 00:53:40.650
you put on folks by saying this is labeled as

00:53:40.650 --> 00:53:44.510
something that you're not using it as, it's extra

00:53:44.510 --> 00:53:46.329
friction that doesn't need to be there for sure.

00:53:46.590 --> 00:53:49.050
So I think being thoughtful about, are we showing?

00:53:49.480 --> 00:53:51.820
mental assessment, even if no one fills it out,

00:53:51.940 --> 00:53:54.860
what are the signals that you want to send? But

00:53:54.860 --> 00:53:57.920
again, not just to have it be fluffy. If it's

00:53:57.920 --> 00:54:00.059
sick, causing a stressor for folks, which it

00:54:00.059 --> 00:54:03.539
has in some cases, why not call it personal leave?

00:54:03.760 --> 00:54:05.639
There's plenty of reasons, most of them being

00:54:05.639 --> 00:54:08.119
because we've always had it that way. And the

00:54:08.119 --> 00:54:10.559
union might be up in arms, but the naming does,

00:54:10.679 --> 00:54:14.090
I think, at least matter. Well, firstly, it's

00:54:14.090 --> 00:54:15.789
funny that you said about Gen Z because that's

00:54:15.789 --> 00:54:17.750
exactly what I've been talking about. If you

00:54:17.750 --> 00:54:19.869
want to attract that generation into the fire

00:54:19.869 --> 00:54:22.530
service, you've got to fix the things that are

00:54:22.530 --> 00:54:24.570
broken when it comes to physical and mental health.

00:54:24.690 --> 00:54:26.750
And they will come back. You give them a work

00:54:26.750 --> 00:54:28.769
week that allows them to perform at a high level

00:54:28.769 --> 00:54:31.010
and be home when they're supposed to be home

00:54:31.010 --> 00:54:32.829
and rest and recover the way they're supposed

00:54:32.829 --> 00:54:34.969
to. I guarantee you will have lines around the

00:54:34.969 --> 00:54:37.570
building again. The other thing with the labeling,

00:54:37.789 --> 00:54:39.829
I was the guy that always had almost nothing

00:54:39.829 --> 00:54:44.010
in the bank because I used my time. I know I'm

00:54:44.010 --> 00:54:46.030
tired and this is, I was getting mandatory all

00:54:46.030 --> 00:54:47.630
the time. So I'm like, this is how I'm going

00:54:47.630 --> 00:54:50.869
to, you know, keep my health, keep a mental health

00:54:50.869 --> 00:54:52.269
is I've got to take a mental health. They've

00:54:52.269 --> 00:54:55.030
got to take a day off just to simply not have

00:54:55.030 --> 00:54:56.789
to wake up at five in the morning and go back

00:54:56.789 --> 00:54:59.650
to the station again. But that's not sick. I'm

00:54:59.650 --> 00:55:02.070
not sick. You know, so this is the point is that

00:55:02.070 --> 00:55:04.949
reframing it into just simply, no, I'm going

00:55:04.949 --> 00:55:06.710
to give a rest and recovery day, just the same

00:55:06.710 --> 00:55:08.550
as you would if you're an athlete, you know,

00:55:08.570 --> 00:55:10.030
you're getting kind of a little bit of burnout

00:55:10.030 --> 00:55:12.670
going on. take an extra rest day and then you

00:55:12.670 --> 00:55:15.030
get back in the gym so i think there's there's

00:55:15.030 --> 00:55:18.869
a lot of kind of uh a lot of great things that

00:55:18.869 --> 00:55:21.510
you can get away from from kind of redefining

00:55:21.510 --> 00:55:24.389
what a simple day off is it can just simply be

00:55:24.389 --> 00:55:26.309
i think i just need to be with my family today

00:55:26.309 --> 00:55:27.869
i need to wake up and have breakfast without

00:55:27.869 --> 00:55:30.550
the judgment or the fear of career retribution

00:55:30.550 --> 00:55:32.710
is the big one because that's the stigma obviously

00:55:32.710 --> 00:55:35.650
uh think it's not unique to fire though like

00:55:35.650 --> 00:55:38.619
think of um airlines, like pilots especially,

00:55:38.840 --> 00:55:41.579
or air traffic controllers who are both going

00:55:41.579 --> 00:55:43.519
through struggles right now, but air traffic

00:55:43.519 --> 00:55:47.559
control especially, they're essentially not allowed

00:55:47.559 --> 00:55:51.500
to experience any form of depression. If you

00:55:51.500 --> 00:55:54.099
are flagged in any capacity as like, yeah, I

00:55:54.099 --> 00:55:56.719
experienced depression, someone lost their wings

00:55:56.719 --> 00:55:58.599
immediately and had previously enjoyed their

00:55:58.599 --> 00:56:01.800
job. So most folks have learned that you don't

00:56:01.800 --> 00:56:04.059
speak up and you suppress it and you just push

00:56:04.059 --> 00:56:06.469
on and that's the job. That is putting people

00:56:06.469 --> 00:56:08.809
in some of the most critical positions of like

00:56:08.809 --> 00:56:11.949
airports, fire, very critical infrastructure

00:56:11.949 --> 00:56:14.869
and support for everything that happens for either

00:56:14.869 --> 00:56:18.070
emergencies or the day -to -day. That is a huge

00:56:18.070 --> 00:56:20.949
problem. and making it more accessible for those

00:56:20.949 --> 00:56:23.449
folks to take the time off they need regardless

00:56:23.449 --> 00:56:26.550
of what it looks like to remove that stigma that

00:56:26.550 --> 00:56:29.170
stigma is very real if the career retribution

00:56:29.170 --> 00:56:31.710
is real for pilots i don't think many firefighters

00:56:31.710 --> 00:56:34.530
would say that they've never experienced a chief

00:56:34.530 --> 00:56:36.750
or don't know of any chiefs who are anti -mental

00:56:36.750 --> 00:56:39.570
health or who are very old school and say that's

00:56:39.570 --> 00:56:42.130
just the job figure it out i don't care that

00:56:42.130 --> 00:56:45.010
you struggled on this call or it's i'm sorry

00:56:45.010 --> 00:56:47.539
that you did but you have to you know pull yourself

00:56:47.539 --> 00:56:50.119
up, which could be more ableist than some folks

00:56:50.119 --> 00:56:52.659
like. And that balance is tricky to strike on

00:56:52.659 --> 00:56:55.440
how do you enable those folks across all of the

00:56:55.440 --> 00:56:57.340
different needs and resources they might have

00:56:57.340 --> 00:57:00.380
or want, and then also make sure you're not stigmatizing

00:57:00.380 --> 00:57:03.320
or penalizing their career. I don't think other

00:57:03.320 --> 00:57:06.079
industries that have the similar demand of, sorry,

00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:08.440
we're around the clock. We can't shut down. I

00:57:08.440 --> 00:57:10.099
don't think they've figured it out either. So

00:57:10.099 --> 00:57:12.420
a lot of opportunity to hopefully help folks

00:57:12.420 --> 00:57:15.019
across the board to say this is a better way

00:57:15.019 --> 00:57:17.719
of naming it, of handling it, of scheduling folks.

00:57:17.980 --> 00:57:20.539
You have to budget for more hours and time off

00:57:20.539 --> 00:57:22.800
and thus more people. And here's why and what

00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:24.739
that looks like. Like you mentioned, I'm more

00:57:24.739 --> 00:57:27.300
quantifying that burnout. That's what I get excited

00:57:27.300 --> 00:57:29.920
about because putting it in dollars context is

00:57:29.920 --> 00:57:32.820
easier than saying what would we have spent or

00:57:32.820 --> 00:57:35.730
what is the physical. you know, duress that these

00:57:35.730 --> 00:57:38.090
folks might be under. Or maybe if we have a lot

00:57:38.090 --> 00:57:40.550
of folks quit, then we have to hire more, but

00:57:40.550 --> 00:57:42.650
they're not there. That's a risk that we might

00:57:42.650 --> 00:57:45.190
spend more on as well. So plenty of ways we could

00:57:45.190 --> 00:57:47.949
frame, you simply have to pay more. So folks

00:57:47.949 --> 00:57:50.369
aren't working such crazy schedules. There's

00:57:50.369 --> 00:57:52.750
very few ways around it, but I think those arguments

00:57:52.750 --> 00:57:55.210
are hard to quantify currently. So that's what

00:57:55.210 --> 00:57:57.130
I get excited about making it. Again, not that

00:57:57.130 --> 00:57:59.530
weeks or months of report running or working

00:57:59.530 --> 00:58:02.599
with payroll, but at your fingertips. Exactly.

00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:04.639
And that's like I've said, in so many of these

00:58:04.639 --> 00:58:07.659
areas, you could argue the shutdown that is causing

00:58:07.659 --> 00:58:09.860
the issues with air traffic control and federal

00:58:09.860 --> 00:58:14.019
firefighters and our military still working for

00:58:14.019 --> 00:58:16.340
zero dollars. But it's about that we don't need

00:58:16.340 --> 00:58:18.300
more money. You know, the money is downstream.

00:58:18.559 --> 00:58:21.980
You look at the cost of health care in America

00:58:21.980 --> 00:58:25.170
at the moment, it's 20 percent of our GDP. So

00:58:25.170 --> 00:58:27.590
imagine the trillions of dollars you would save

00:58:27.590 --> 00:58:30.869
if you just made Americans healthy. You get middlemen

00:58:30.869 --> 00:58:33.130
in health care to just hand over their... their

00:58:33.130 --> 00:58:36.070
money. That is the question I definitely think

00:58:36.070 --> 00:58:37.809
about a ton, but I couldn't agree more. It's

00:58:37.809 --> 00:58:40.670
waste of money that doesn't go to the human health

00:58:40.670 --> 00:58:43.289
outcomes. And if you think of how hospitals are

00:58:43.289 --> 00:58:45.650
even rated by reimbursement rates or how they

00:58:45.650 --> 00:58:48.929
do, there's no similar review for insurance companies

00:58:48.929 --> 00:58:51.909
or they all track how much they deny claims and

00:58:51.909 --> 00:58:54.929
brag about it. So I think having a more thoughtful

00:58:54.929 --> 00:58:57.610
approach to how the healthcare infrastructure

00:58:57.610 --> 00:59:01.289
of which fire is a big part. They've only started

00:59:01.289 --> 00:59:04.110
getting the Medicare, Medicaid grants to cover

00:59:04.110 --> 00:59:07.409
ambulatory services in the last five to seven

00:59:07.409 --> 00:59:09.409
years when, you know, Medicare and Medicaid have

00:59:09.409 --> 00:59:13.789
expanded. That is great, but it is just the start.

00:59:13.849 --> 00:59:17.130
When you think of how much, how many healthcare

00:59:17.130 --> 00:59:21.730
services is an EMS department, you know, a fire

00:59:21.730 --> 00:59:24.449
and EMS department. committing by the time they

00:59:24.449 --> 00:59:27.269
deliver that person, the resources driving that

00:59:27.269 --> 00:59:30.070
person back. Private ambulance companies have

00:59:30.070 --> 00:59:32.349
a very different amount they bill for. So why

00:59:32.349 --> 00:59:34.889
can't, you know, the public make up some of that

00:59:34.889 --> 00:59:37.090
difference or get reimbursed where there's a

00:59:37.090 --> 00:59:39.369
market rate that folks are well below in most

00:59:39.369 --> 00:59:41.530
cases because you're providing a public good.

00:59:42.030 --> 00:59:44.289
But that money going to those private hospitals

00:59:44.289 --> 00:59:46.909
is a huge part of the problem. It's not yet in

00:59:46.909 --> 00:59:48.869
the government hands, but I think that's why

00:59:48.869 --> 00:59:51.210
a lot of people advocate for single payer health

00:59:51.210 --> 00:59:54.070
care or an alternative to not everything needing

00:59:54.070 --> 00:59:57.030
to be so expensive on the middleman side. I couldn't

00:59:57.030 --> 00:59:58.849
agree more, though, that how you extract that

00:59:58.849 --> 01:00:01.309
money in a thoughtful way. I think these grants

01:00:01.309 --> 01:00:03.210
that cover Medicare and Medicaid are a great

01:00:03.210 --> 01:00:05.630
one because it directly aligns service with the

01:00:05.630 --> 01:00:08.409
outcome. How can we carve off more of that given

01:00:08.409 --> 01:00:10.809
the number of services would be my immediate

01:00:10.809 --> 01:00:13.409
thing that could be lobbied for that more achievable

01:00:13.409 --> 01:00:15.289
than a single payer healthcare system probably.

01:00:16.340 --> 01:00:18.760
Absolutely. And the same with cities, with their

01:00:18.760 --> 01:00:21.099
fire departments. If you look downstream at overtime

01:00:21.099 --> 01:00:24.760
costs and lack of retention, so you train people,

01:00:24.880 --> 01:00:27.480
you equip them, and then they leave. The medical

01:00:27.480 --> 01:00:30.099
retirements, the line of duty death payments,

01:00:30.360 --> 01:00:33.119
the workman's comp claims, the lawsuits from

01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:35.820
exhausted firefighters making mistakes. I mean,

01:00:35.900 --> 01:00:38.260
it is, depending on where you are, millions,

01:00:38.500 --> 01:00:40.340
tens of millions, hundreds of millions. Like

01:00:40.340 --> 01:00:43.619
LA, their four -year overtime budget, overtime

01:00:43.619 --> 01:00:47.380
was $1 .2 billion. So when people say we don't

01:00:47.380 --> 01:00:49.579
have the money for extra personnel, I'm like,

01:00:49.599 --> 01:00:52.099
you do. And this goes back to what we were talking

01:00:52.099 --> 01:00:53.559
about. You're planning to spend it in the future.

01:00:53.679 --> 01:00:56.699
You just, yeah, not in the right spot. So let's

01:00:56.699 --> 01:00:58.960
run these reports and show you. See, it's black

01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:00.460
and white in front of you and you can take it

01:01:00.460 --> 01:01:03.480
to your employer. All right, well then. Let's

01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:05.739
talk about training now. I was a firefighter

01:01:05.739 --> 01:01:07.820
and also a paramedic. So I had a lot of CEs that

01:01:07.820 --> 01:01:10.960
I had to do, you know, biannually. Talk to me

01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:13.679
about the opportunity for this software to keep,

01:01:13.699 --> 01:01:15.840
you know, stay on top of certifications and all

01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:19.400
the other areas. Yeah. So Target Solutions is

01:01:19.400 --> 01:01:21.880
the like training tool used by. I won't say most,

01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:24.219
but like a third of fire departments, let's say,

01:01:24.219 --> 01:01:27.420
or so. Fire engineering training is a new one

01:01:27.420 --> 01:01:30.199
that started more recently. They're also a partner

01:01:30.199 --> 01:01:32.320
of the Western Fire Chiefs like us. So they're

01:01:32.320 --> 01:01:34.320
the kind of recommended vendor that are doing

01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:36.639
things differently. We can integrate with both

01:01:36.639 --> 01:01:41.019
of them and pull in training data. So paramedic,

01:01:41.019 --> 01:01:43.719
for example, as a qualification needs to get

01:01:43.719 --> 01:01:47.460
renewed in Illinois every four years where my

01:01:47.460 --> 01:01:49.769
dad's department is. That's a new requirement

01:01:49.769 --> 01:01:52.289
for Illinois where previously it was you're a

01:01:52.289 --> 01:01:54.070
paramedic, just keep up with your trainings,

01:01:54.110 --> 01:01:57.409
but not needing a formal recertification. So

01:01:57.409 --> 01:01:59.710
we can pull in the credential and if they're

01:01:59.710 --> 01:02:02.230
qualified for it into our tool directly from

01:02:02.230 --> 01:02:05.190
your training tool and even the expiration date,

01:02:05.269 --> 01:02:07.369
which is optional. So if there's an expiration

01:02:07.369 --> 01:02:10.590
date, we can say, I think it's set for 30 or

01:02:10.590 --> 01:02:13.630
45 days out for the default, but fully customizable

01:02:13.630 --> 01:02:17.659
to say X days before it expires. turn it yellow

01:02:17.659 --> 01:02:20.800
and change it to expiring soon and notify me

01:02:20.800 --> 01:02:23.539
my training chief and anybody else that you want

01:02:23.539 --> 01:02:26.159
to notify same thing when it actually expires

01:02:26.159 --> 01:02:28.920
so we can help proactively track on a workflow

01:02:28.920 --> 01:02:31.500
basis where we have the messaging and communication

01:02:31.500 --> 01:02:34.460
system and the mobile app where folks can use

01:02:34.460 --> 01:02:37.099
you know in a user -friendly way but the training

01:02:37.099 --> 01:02:40.250
chief who has spent 20, maybe 10 years in target

01:02:40.250 --> 01:02:43.309
solutions or the tool of choice to input all

01:02:43.309 --> 01:02:45.570
that training info? Does it need to change the

01:02:45.570 --> 01:02:48.809
workflow or export all that data? And a big challenge

01:02:48.809 --> 01:02:52.690
we see with folks is they're pitched on interoperability

01:02:52.690 --> 01:02:56.429
and interoperability is adopt our platform. And

01:02:56.429 --> 01:02:58.369
there's more than one vendor doing this, but

01:02:58.369 --> 01:03:00.750
you have to have all of our suite and maybe we'll

01:03:00.750 --> 01:03:03.070
plug into some other tools, but it'll be a very

01:03:03.070 --> 01:03:07.239
minimal integration. we have more so crew sense

01:03:07.239 --> 01:03:10.000
and target solutions for example are owned by

01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:13.500
vector solutions they do not communicate that

01:03:13.500 --> 01:03:16.099
training data with the roster so if you have

01:03:16.099 --> 01:03:18.519
relevant credentials to staffing they are then

01:03:18.519 --> 01:03:21.300
manually updated in crew sense to me that makes

01:03:21.300 --> 01:03:23.880
no sense they're the same tool they have the

01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:26.719
info in some case maybe it's a workaround they

01:03:26.719 --> 01:03:28.789
have to do to send it because it's not Maybe

01:03:28.789 --> 01:03:30.889
it's two tools they bought that they don't plug

01:03:30.889 --> 01:03:33.250
in as well, but it's possible because we're pulling

01:03:33.250 --> 01:03:35.550
the data from target solutions into our tool.

01:03:35.769 --> 01:03:38.869
So going that step further to pull in trainings

01:03:38.869 --> 01:03:42.150
or other very time -intensive workflow things

01:03:42.150 --> 01:03:44.190
you all are already doing, we don't want you

01:03:44.190 --> 01:03:47.530
to do duplicate effort on. Or let's say you go

01:03:47.530 --> 01:03:51.250
out on a call right when you add them in target

01:03:51.250 --> 01:03:53.570
solutions to a new credential and say you're

01:03:53.570 --> 01:03:56.599
paramedic qualified. forgot to do it in StationWise,

01:03:56.599 --> 01:03:58.840
and now every roster thereafter is incorrect

01:03:58.840 --> 01:04:00.880
because you haven't actually gone in to update

01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:03.400
that yet. So we want to make sure we're not blocking

01:04:03.400 --> 01:04:05.739
folks and that you don't have to worry about

01:04:05.739 --> 01:04:07.659
that lapse where the accountability is wrong

01:04:07.659 --> 01:04:10.110
either. And only other thing I'll add, those

01:04:10.110 --> 01:04:12.670
are just two tools we're starting with. We just

01:04:12.670 --> 01:04:14.630
met a department in Washington State this week

01:04:14.630 --> 01:04:16.949
that's going to sign, which is exciting. They

01:04:16.949 --> 01:04:20.110
have a custom solution that they built with Power

01:04:20.110 --> 01:04:23.130
Automate, so they can automatically send training

01:04:23.130 --> 01:04:26.030
records to a calendar, essentially. We're just

01:04:26.030 --> 01:04:27.949
going to have them automatically send those trainings

01:04:27.949 --> 01:04:30.690
to us, and then we'll figure out this training

01:04:30.690 --> 01:04:32.949
record matches this credential, and whenever

01:04:32.949 --> 01:04:35.500
they send it, we'll keep it up to date. Very

01:04:35.500 --> 01:04:37.579
different process than a target solutions API.

01:04:38.059 --> 01:04:41.119
So our goal is not one size fits all training,

01:04:41.219 --> 01:04:44.239
even for example. Same with payroll. When we

01:04:44.239 --> 01:04:46.980
send the data to now 10 plus payroll tools we're

01:04:46.980 --> 01:04:49.860
working on, we can customize exactly what that

01:04:49.860 --> 01:04:52.519
data export looks like, or in the case of training,

01:04:52.619 --> 01:04:55.059
the import too. And not even the file format,

01:04:55.079 --> 01:04:57.480
but even the process. Maybe you want to email

01:04:57.480 --> 01:04:59.380
us, but a different department wants an API.

01:04:59.860 --> 01:05:02.179
Sometimes it's easier for City IT to automate

01:05:02.179 --> 01:05:04.699
an email to a... you know, station wise email

01:05:04.699 --> 01:05:06.960
account than it is to set up that API. So we

01:05:06.960 --> 01:05:09.219
can work around, as you can imagine, with legacy

01:05:09.219 --> 01:05:11.800
city systems, pretty much anything by now. So

01:05:11.800 --> 01:05:15.579
training is no different there. One more area

01:05:15.579 --> 01:05:17.079
and I'll put it to you, see if there's anything

01:05:17.079 --> 01:05:20.500
that we've missed. But when I think about, you

01:05:20.500 --> 01:05:22.199
know, a lot of the times when people get promoted

01:05:22.199 --> 01:05:24.360
to BC, you know, one of the biggest gripes is

01:05:24.360 --> 01:05:26.679
that they're there just for hours with staffing.

01:05:28.360 --> 01:05:30.199
That area and any other area you want to talk

01:05:30.199 --> 01:05:32.639
about, talk to me about efficiency, because the

01:05:32.639 --> 01:05:34.420
biggest thing is, you know, if we can automate

01:05:34.420 --> 01:05:37.900
areas, then it frees up time for, you know, firefighters

01:05:37.900 --> 01:05:41.980
to run calls, for officers to keep us all in

01:05:41.980 --> 01:05:44.699
check. And then obviously for the battalion chiefs

01:05:44.699 --> 01:05:46.840
to get the staffing done so they can focus on

01:05:46.840 --> 01:05:49.579
more important things. Yeah. And I appreciate

01:05:49.579 --> 01:05:53.030
the distinction by user type too. Most fire chiefs

01:05:53.030 --> 01:05:55.070
tell us, I don't care about adding or saving

01:05:55.070 --> 01:05:57.750
recliner time. Folks will go out on the calls

01:05:57.750 --> 01:05:59.590
they need and they're not as worried about the

01:05:59.590 --> 01:06:01.889
time saving. So what we really help with there

01:06:01.889 --> 01:06:04.650
is the error prevention. You don't have to go

01:06:04.650 --> 01:06:07.230
doing corrections for folks. Folks are complaining

01:06:07.230 --> 01:06:09.110
less because they have everything at their fingertips

01:06:09.110 --> 01:06:11.610
and can make the requested changes that you allow

01:06:11.610 --> 01:06:13.949
them to. Otherwise, they have to ask their chief

01:06:13.949 --> 01:06:16.539
like they were anyway. So that's one piece on

01:06:16.539 --> 01:06:20.260
what we make easier for the user side, but not

01:06:20.260 --> 01:06:22.260
so much automating or time -saving because they're

01:06:22.260 --> 01:06:24.780
not hopefully in the tool too much anyway for

01:06:24.780 --> 01:06:29.659
the battalion chief job. My dad, he was first

01:06:29.659 --> 01:06:32.460
on the captain's list, got promoted first in

01:06:32.460 --> 01:06:34.800
his whole department, took the battalion chief

01:06:34.800 --> 01:06:37.179
test, even though his battalion chief class is

01:06:37.179 --> 01:06:39.440
like two to four years on and none of them are

01:06:39.440 --> 01:06:42.769
retiring in this test cycle. He wanted the acting

01:06:42.769 --> 01:06:45.309
reps. So then next time around, he could potentially

01:06:45.309 --> 01:06:50.010
qualify. The number one captain on that captain's

01:06:50.010 --> 01:06:52.789
test for at least the last promotion said, I

01:06:52.789 --> 01:06:55.250
didn't sign up for this job to sit behind a desk

01:06:55.250 --> 01:06:58.110
all day. I hate it. I'm learning all the stuff

01:06:58.110 --> 01:07:00.269
with our current tool that you mentioned you

01:07:00.269 --> 01:07:02.170
all are fixing. So it's been nice where we're

01:07:02.170 --> 01:07:04.469
now doing more demos to show them how it works

01:07:04.469 --> 01:07:08.909
because of that. The difference, the number one

01:07:08.909 --> 01:07:11.210
thing, if you ask, I've asked dozens of battalion

01:07:11.210 --> 01:07:14.150
chiefs across a dozen plus states, what is the

01:07:14.150 --> 01:07:15.969
number one thing you would change about your

01:07:15.969 --> 01:07:18.289
job? Wave a magic wand, what would you change?

01:07:18.510 --> 01:07:21.030
I would rather spend more time in the rig and

01:07:21.030 --> 01:07:23.989
less time behind a desk. So that is the number

01:07:23.989 --> 01:07:26.409
one job we are trying to solve for that battalion

01:07:26.409 --> 01:07:29.349
chief. Any requests you can approve from your

01:07:29.349 --> 01:07:31.630
phone. So you know that it's following your shift

01:07:31.630 --> 01:07:34.150
trade rules, max consecutive work hours rules.

01:07:34.369 --> 01:07:36.809
They have enough accrual hours in the bank. You

01:07:36.809 --> 01:07:38.989
can actually just hit approve on that or deny

01:07:38.989 --> 01:07:41.809
on your phone on the go. No need to get back

01:07:41.809 --> 01:07:44.409
to your desktop. And because it works on any

01:07:44.409 --> 01:07:47.050
device, I mean, Apple or Android, you can also

01:07:47.050 --> 01:07:50.389
staff from a tablet or a Toughbook. Now you can

01:07:50.389 --> 01:07:52.409
be in the rig and actually handle that staffing

01:07:52.409 --> 01:07:55.989
too. Beyond just the butts in seats part, all

01:07:55.989 --> 01:07:58.309
the automation can run it behind the scenes.

01:07:58.489 --> 01:08:01.030
So it's not you manually dragging. Our rules

01:08:01.030 --> 01:08:03.380
engine can make sure. if this vacancy opened

01:08:03.380 --> 01:08:05.920
up and it should automatically fill it it's not

01:08:05.920 --> 01:08:08.820
running at like 4 p .m every day it'll just constantly

01:08:08.820 --> 01:08:11.400
check and then run to fill based on your rules

01:08:11.400 --> 01:08:15.690
for example So that getting them into more calls

01:08:15.690 --> 01:08:18.909
and doing the job they want to do. And then that

01:08:18.909 --> 01:08:21.069
senior most person that you're otherwise paying

01:08:21.069 --> 01:08:23.289
to sit behind a desk and essentially keep the

01:08:23.289 --> 01:08:25.750
lights on can actually go in the field and see

01:08:25.750 --> 01:08:28.390
are the policies being followed. When we think

01:08:28.390 --> 01:08:30.430
of that health dashboard, how are those folks,

01:08:30.550 --> 01:08:32.369
you know, I might have that data that says these

01:08:32.369 --> 01:08:34.750
two folks are red. Maybe I'll go out on the calls

01:08:34.750 --> 01:08:36.829
with them and just see how they're doing on the

01:08:36.829 --> 01:08:38.590
next day because they had a rough shift the day

01:08:38.590 --> 01:08:41.090
before and they're out on a 48 now. Just making

01:08:41.090 --> 01:08:43.489
it a lot easier for that person to engage with

01:08:43.489 --> 01:08:45.909
the department, both doing the job they love

01:08:45.909 --> 01:08:48.810
and that they're better suited to is huge. And

01:08:48.810 --> 01:08:51.090
then we save a ton of time for the payroll admins

01:08:51.090 --> 01:08:53.579
and the fire chiefs. on running payroll and reporting.

01:08:53.859 --> 01:08:55.920
But just since you mentioned more of the fire

01:08:55.920 --> 01:08:58.500
suppression side, definitely that battalion chief

01:08:58.500 --> 01:09:00.680
one is close to home where I've seen firsthand

01:09:00.680 --> 01:09:03.340
how my dad is, he's not going, he's retiring

01:09:03.340 --> 01:09:05.579
without taking the next battalion chief test

01:09:05.579 --> 01:09:08.300
because he does not want to do the job despite

01:09:08.300 --> 01:09:10.640
being number one on the captain's test, which

01:09:10.640 --> 01:09:12.920
I think is very telling of how that job has set

01:09:12.920 --> 01:09:15.640
itself up. It's very much sit behind a desk.

01:09:15.680 --> 01:09:18.800
I don't want to do it. I hate technology. If

01:09:18.800 --> 01:09:21.090
the technology. The only other thing I'll add

01:09:21.090 --> 01:09:24.649
on that is firefighters say the very overused

01:09:24.649 --> 01:09:26.930
trope is we hate change in the way things are.

01:09:27.229 --> 01:09:30.130
I don't think that's actually true. I think if

01:09:30.130 --> 01:09:32.470
you have software tools that are not designed

01:09:32.470 --> 01:09:35.449
for you, that are not implemented based on your

01:09:35.449 --> 01:09:38.630
needs, and then lack the support thereafter that

01:09:38.630 --> 01:09:41.750
you deserve, I would be very unhappy myself with

01:09:41.750 --> 01:09:44.189
that change too. And that's been the norm and

01:09:44.189 --> 01:09:47.250
not the exception. So the distrust of industry

01:09:47.250 --> 01:09:50.029
-specific software. I think is actually well

01:09:50.029 --> 01:09:52.430
-earned. So what we try to help with is both

01:09:52.430 --> 01:09:55.390
getting that person out of the seat and into

01:09:55.390 --> 01:09:57.869
the field more, and then also making sure that

01:09:57.869 --> 01:09:59.850
we can help with so much of that change management

01:09:59.850 --> 01:10:02.789
process. So it's not, here you go, upload your

01:10:02.789 --> 01:10:04.689
hundred users and figure everything out yourself.

01:10:05.069 --> 01:10:07.609
You're actually in the tool and then seeing immediately

01:10:07.609 --> 01:10:10.069
how it can save you time with that support then

01:10:10.069 --> 01:10:13.170
along the way. No, I think that's brilliant.

01:10:13.409 --> 01:10:15.369
And you think about just autonomy again, use

01:10:15.369 --> 01:10:18.460
that word a lot, but. There's many examples where

01:10:18.460 --> 01:10:21.199
a battalion chief will monitor a radio throughout

01:10:21.199 --> 01:10:24.720
the night. And for that chief's performance,

01:10:24.859 --> 01:10:27.699
that chief's longevity, it's insanity. Because

01:10:27.699 --> 01:10:30.239
what needs to happen is you go to bed, go to

01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:32.600
sleep, and the big boys and girls on the rigs

01:10:32.600 --> 01:10:34.060
will let you know if they need you. And then

01:10:34.060 --> 01:10:35.720
you'll get toned out and you'll go join them.

01:10:36.390 --> 01:10:38.069
And I think it's the same with this. If you can

01:10:38.069 --> 01:10:40.750
build more autonomy in the staffing model, and

01:10:40.750 --> 01:10:43.670
like you said, if they meet the criteria, then

01:10:43.670 --> 01:10:46.050
it automatically approves. You shouldn't have

01:10:46.050 --> 01:10:48.930
to be pushing a green button if they've met all

01:10:48.930 --> 01:10:52.170
the things that you need. And I love that fact

01:10:52.170 --> 01:10:54.010
that we're talking about. Then you can actually

01:10:54.010 --> 01:10:55.710
look, well, how are my people doing? Have I got

01:10:55.710 --> 01:10:58.710
anyone that's hit the red or that is on that

01:10:58.710 --> 01:11:03.210
36 straight that's maxed out our hours? Let me

01:11:03.210 --> 01:11:05.810
go check on them. But also, these are the people

01:11:05.810 --> 01:11:07.109
that are going to be running the big scenes.

01:11:07.310 --> 01:11:10.149
So if they're not out there on more calls, if

01:11:10.149 --> 01:11:12.449
they're out there doing the training, going on

01:11:12.449 --> 01:11:14.590
the tower and doing all the things that the other

01:11:14.590 --> 01:11:17.050
firefighters should do, then the people that

01:11:17.050 --> 01:11:19.350
we rely on the most to make the most important

01:11:19.350 --> 01:11:23.109
decisions on these massive scenes are arguably

01:11:23.109 --> 01:11:26.010
under -trained and deconditioned. So the less

01:11:26.010 --> 01:11:28.409
time in front of a computer, the more chance

01:11:28.409 --> 01:11:31.310
that person has of being the right person for

01:11:31.310 --> 01:11:33.960
that job when we need them the most. Absolutely.

01:11:34.000 --> 01:11:35.979
That's a great point, too, on the practitioner

01:11:35.979 --> 01:11:38.479
side. It's not the job that you want that person

01:11:38.479 --> 01:11:40.479
doing, both with how expensive they are and how

01:11:40.479 --> 01:11:42.340
much you've trained them. But to your point for

01:11:42.340 --> 01:11:44.800
how important they are in that emergency situation,

01:11:45.100 --> 01:11:48.079
I hadn't considered that, too. Well, before we

01:11:48.079 --> 01:11:49.840
go to some closing questions, are there any other

01:11:49.840 --> 01:11:53.920
areas you want to highlight? The only big one,

01:11:53.939 --> 01:11:55.619
I guess this is a point I always like to drive

01:11:55.619 --> 01:11:59.260
home, is love to ask that fire chiefs, police

01:11:59.260 --> 01:12:03.210
chiefs, any... first responder leader who is

01:12:03.210 --> 01:12:06.750
currently used to subpar technology and or service

01:12:06.750 --> 01:12:10.609
to ask more from their vendors. So why can't

01:12:10.609 --> 01:12:13.189
you build this custom export for me? If you have

01:12:13.189 --> 01:12:15.670
to build it, how much will it cost? Why is it

01:12:15.670 --> 01:12:18.109
more than a one time payment? Because once you've

01:12:18.109 --> 01:12:20.149
set it up, it should be done. I don't need to

01:12:20.149 --> 01:12:22.470
pay an increase in my ongoing rate for this,

01:12:22.510 --> 01:12:24.720
for example. How do you have vendors that will

01:12:24.720 --> 01:12:26.859
work with you to even say, yes, we'll customize?

01:12:27.600 --> 01:12:30.039
So we like to, for example, we have a custom

01:12:30.039 --> 01:12:32.479
roadmap where when you log into your tool, you

01:12:32.479 --> 01:12:34.739
can see all the upcoming features that you want.

01:12:34.939 --> 01:12:37.020
And you can even say, I don't want that one.

01:12:37.100 --> 01:12:39.380
Can you turn it off for me when it comes? And

01:12:39.380 --> 01:12:41.279
that's how we get your feedback weeks or even

01:12:41.279 --> 01:12:43.819
months in advance of some of the big ones. But

01:12:43.819 --> 01:12:47.000
asking vendors to do more and not expecting to

01:12:47.000 --> 01:12:49.760
work around the limited pieces they might have

01:12:49.760 --> 01:12:52.739
is what I would push everyone to do. We, for

01:12:52.739 --> 01:12:55.590
example, An incident reporting tool said, you

01:12:55.590 --> 01:12:59.430
cannot send more than 32 characters for the apparatus

01:12:59.430 --> 01:13:02.909
name to our incident tool. That has to be maybe

01:13:02.909 --> 01:13:06.090
2003 character limit. I've never heard of something

01:13:06.090 --> 01:13:08.670
like that. So we said, that's not acceptable.

01:13:09.310 --> 01:13:11.729
No, we're going to send you longer apparatus

01:13:11.729 --> 01:13:14.010
names than that. Though they'd previously been

01:13:14.010 --> 01:13:16.409
told for years that they were unable to do that.

01:13:16.510 --> 01:13:18.970
When we as a vendor push back on a different

01:13:18.970 --> 01:13:21.850
vendor, instead of the customer doing it, it

01:13:21.850 --> 01:13:24.359
took one day. We now can support up to, I think,

01:13:24.359 --> 01:13:27.460
whatever, 200 something characters. So now putting

01:13:27.460 --> 01:13:29.600
in whatever name limit you want, so you can put

01:13:29.600 --> 01:13:32.060
in the apparatus name, the incident number, you're

01:13:32.060 --> 01:13:34.659
not limited to squeezing things into a tiny space.

01:13:34.960 --> 01:13:37.640
Those are really impactful for you to run reports

01:13:37.640 --> 01:13:40.899
or you can literally track more data. And that's

01:13:40.899 --> 01:13:43.920
so simple for these companies to change in many

01:13:43.920 --> 01:13:47.000
cases or companies like StationWise. So just

01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:49.859
would push folks to ask more of vendors, ask

01:13:49.859 --> 01:13:52.159
them to be collaborative. And if they're not,

01:13:52.159 --> 01:13:54.600
and you can't find a vendor that is, that's where

01:13:54.600 --> 01:13:56.439
you can have more of those integrations work

01:13:56.439 --> 01:14:00.260
around those legacy systems. So finding one tool

01:14:00.260 --> 01:14:02.560
to rule them all, I think has been a bit of a

01:14:02.560 --> 01:14:04.520
dream for a lot of chiefs. And they've started

01:14:04.520 --> 01:14:06.960
to realize as we've had a lot come to us for

01:14:06.960 --> 01:14:10.100
the staffing side, staffing is very complex and

01:14:10.100 --> 01:14:12.060
hard to automate with a lot of legal liability

01:14:12.060 --> 01:14:16.079
and it impacts pay. We take that very seriously.

01:14:16.159 --> 01:14:19.939
And that trust in us all being in the fire service

01:14:19.939 --> 01:14:23.079
or from family members matters a lot to us. So

01:14:23.079 --> 01:14:25.659
just making sure that we similarly say, push

01:14:25.659 --> 01:14:28.479
other vendors to, if not do that, to integrate

01:14:28.479 --> 01:14:30.739
your systems or to come up with a custom report

01:14:30.739 --> 01:14:33.140
if it's not you doing another workaround that

01:14:33.140 --> 01:14:35.520
adds five to 10 hours. Because as folks have

01:14:35.520 --> 01:14:38.260
seen, when the software changes, that workaround

01:14:38.260 --> 01:14:40.720
doesn't work anymore, or it requires more time,

01:14:40.779 --> 01:14:43.340
or now we have to document a new process because

01:14:43.340 --> 01:14:45.500
the workaround is a little different. Those are

01:14:45.500 --> 01:14:47.899
all the things we want to avoid and be more of

01:14:47.899 --> 01:14:50.859
a trusted partner. So just having more of IT

01:14:50.859 --> 01:14:53.800
vendors that can help support your IT needs,

01:14:53.859 --> 01:14:57.260
not put more work on. Fire departments, in many

01:14:57.260 --> 01:14:59.300
cases, don't have dedicated IT, as you know.

01:14:59.420 --> 01:15:01.720
So for a lot of those smaller agencies, how do

01:15:01.720 --> 01:15:04.239
you put that work on the vendor and just ask

01:15:04.239 --> 01:15:06.800
more for them to solve some of your biggest tech

01:15:06.800 --> 01:15:09.600
challenges, really? So we get fired up about

01:15:09.600 --> 01:15:12.239
it, at least. So I'm a little biased. Yeah, well,

01:15:12.300 --> 01:15:14.479
rightly so. All right. Well, I would love to

01:15:14.479 --> 01:15:16.119
go to some closing questions before I let you

01:15:16.119 --> 01:15:19.420
go. The first one I love to ask, is there a book

01:15:19.420 --> 01:15:21.600
or are there books that you love to recommend?

01:15:21.840 --> 01:15:24.000
It can be related to our discussion today or

01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:30.270
completely unrelated. Hmm. Good question. Plenty

01:15:30.270 --> 01:15:32.890
of books to recommend. I would say one that jumps

01:15:32.890 --> 01:15:36.590
out is Never Split the Difference, Negotiate

01:15:36.590 --> 01:15:40.869
Like Your Life Depends on It. It's a now more

01:15:40.869 --> 01:15:43.010
recommended in business school book, but I found

01:15:43.010 --> 01:15:44.789
it more helpful than anything I've ever learned

01:15:44.789 --> 01:15:47.689
in business school about negotiating, let's say.

01:15:48.250 --> 01:15:51.189
But I like to think of it as how you ask how

01:15:51.189 --> 01:15:53.989
and what questions to drive in challenging situations

01:15:53.989 --> 01:15:57.130
to a helpful outcome for everybody. I found it

01:15:57.130 --> 01:15:59.050
to be very helpful from a leadership point of

01:15:59.050 --> 01:16:02.289
view. And it's written from the, he was a former

01:16:02.289 --> 01:16:05.930
hostage negotiator for the, I want to say FBI

01:16:05.930 --> 01:16:09.090
or CIA, insert three -letter government org.

01:16:09.329 --> 01:16:12.750
He learned through many mistakes, many, probably

01:16:12.750 --> 01:16:16.819
FBI, many failed US -based hostages. that it

01:16:16.819 --> 01:16:20.520
did not work and they had close calls, you know,

01:16:20.520 --> 01:16:24.420
hostages killed. He learned this perspective

01:16:24.420 --> 01:16:27.180
after decades of doing that. And I think it also

01:16:27.180 --> 01:16:29.300
has a lot to say about how to stay calm under

01:16:29.300 --> 01:16:32.039
pressure and how you respond when your emotional

01:16:32.039 --> 01:16:34.220
triggers might be high, especially if you're

01:16:34.220 --> 01:16:36.680
talking to someone who's more antagonistic. I

01:16:36.680 --> 01:16:38.939
found a lot of the values that fire chiefs have

01:16:38.939 --> 01:16:42.029
reflected back of their leadership style. to

01:16:42.029 --> 01:16:44.670
be kind of more codified in that book of here's

01:16:44.670 --> 01:16:47.149
tactically how you ask those types of questions

01:16:47.149 --> 01:16:50.149
or how you deal with a person like that. So despite

01:16:50.149 --> 01:16:52.010
it being on the negotiating side, I found it

01:16:52.010 --> 01:16:54.470
really helpful from a leadership point of view

01:16:54.470 --> 01:16:57.750
too. And then only other one I would recommend

01:16:57.750 --> 01:17:01.529
is called Small Giants. Way shorter on this one,

01:17:01.590 --> 01:17:04.210
but it's essentially how companies can be great

01:17:04.210 --> 01:17:07.340
instead of big. So instead of going for growth

01:17:07.340 --> 01:17:09.819
and like going for up and to the right constantly,

01:17:09.979 --> 01:17:12.939
how can you be a gigantic company that chooses

01:17:12.939 --> 01:17:15.720
to say no to growth opportunities that would

01:17:15.720 --> 01:17:18.119
dilute down your profitability or dilute down

01:17:18.119 --> 01:17:20.619
your mission and focus? That's not something

01:17:20.619 --> 01:17:22.880
we have to do yet, thankfully, but long -term

01:17:22.880 --> 01:17:25.289
want to make sure that we're saying. no to the

01:17:25.289 --> 01:17:27.770
right opportunities so we don't dilute down that

01:17:27.770 --> 01:17:30.430
service that we're offering now. So that's been

01:17:30.430 --> 01:17:33.010
a really helpful book for me. The only one I've

01:17:33.010 --> 01:17:34.750
seen, including at Stanford Business School,

01:17:34.829 --> 01:17:38.130
on how you can build a very large business that

01:17:38.130 --> 01:17:41.270
is still for years later dedicated to the customers.

01:17:41.489 --> 01:17:44.829
So not a perfect Bible on what to do, but a ton

01:17:44.829 --> 01:17:46.729
of examples on how other companies have done

01:17:46.729 --> 01:17:49.210
it that have been very helpful to think outside

01:17:49.210 --> 01:17:53.220
of the box. Firstly, on the FBI thing, the reason

01:17:53.220 --> 01:17:55.960
why it's probably them because the CIA would

01:17:55.960 --> 01:17:57.800
have had everyone killed that was involved. Exactly.

01:17:57.899 --> 01:18:00.380
And they're international. So CIA would say,

01:18:00.399 --> 01:18:02.380
we've taken care of it. We sent in a drone strike.

01:18:02.560 --> 01:18:05.899
All done. But it's interesting. I think we talked

01:18:05.899 --> 01:18:09.380
about this when we spoke before, but it's really

01:18:09.380 --> 01:18:14.989
sad. I have had some great friends in... excellent

01:18:14.989 --> 01:18:17.369
businesses with us with a social model built

01:18:17.369 --> 01:18:21.810
in that sadly was sold to you know whatever you

01:18:21.810 --> 01:18:23.689
call it a corporation or whatever the term is

01:18:23.689 --> 01:18:27.010
that were then you know systemically disassembled

01:18:27.010 --> 01:18:31.149
and it's the very question is like how big do

01:18:31.149 --> 01:18:33.350
you get before you say, all right, this is as

01:18:33.350 --> 01:18:35.350
big as we're going to get. We're going to keep

01:18:35.350 --> 01:18:37.750
delivering this great level of service. And we're

01:18:37.750 --> 01:18:39.890
not, again, as we mentioned earlier, not chasing

01:18:39.890 --> 01:18:42.670
that holy monopoly of having all the money. And

01:18:42.670 --> 01:18:44.489
I've seen it with the great restaurant we had

01:18:44.489 --> 01:18:47.649
in Gainesville that expanded, and I'm assuming

01:18:47.649 --> 01:18:49.569
overextended, and then both of the restaurants

01:18:49.569 --> 01:18:51.850
closed down. And I've seen it with some of the

01:18:51.850 --> 01:18:56.630
people that I know closely. But what is it about

01:18:56.630 --> 01:19:02.189
that element that people end up chasing the money

01:19:02.189 --> 01:19:04.329
rather than hanging on to the very thing that

01:19:04.329 --> 01:19:07.649
made them successful in the first place. I think

01:19:07.649 --> 01:19:11.789
from what I've seen, it's not the person changing

01:19:11.789 --> 01:19:14.149
so much. Like you mentioned on the founder of

01:19:14.149 --> 01:19:17.960
the tool in Anaheim, it's... When you sell that

01:19:17.960 --> 01:19:20.699
product to almost always a private equity fund

01:19:20.699 --> 01:19:23.420
or a growth stage fund that has majority board

01:19:23.420 --> 01:19:26.560
control, that's why we're making sure the board

01:19:26.560 --> 01:19:28.680
stays founder controlled for us. That is our

01:19:28.680 --> 01:19:31.539
big that in raising venture capital funding where

01:19:31.539 --> 01:19:33.909
we can get. Millions of dollars in funding that

01:19:33.909 --> 01:19:36.369
might be inaccessible to other companies are

01:19:36.369 --> 01:19:38.390
what we want to do to set ourselves apart so

01:19:38.390 --> 01:19:40.750
we don't need to sell out and can build for years

01:19:40.750 --> 01:19:43.609
to come. Gives us a lot of conviction to build

01:19:43.609 --> 01:19:46.369
the right thing for folks. But then after setting

01:19:46.369 --> 01:19:48.449
up, like, I would like to do this for the next

01:19:48.449 --> 01:19:51.529
20 years. Maybe I can step into more a president

01:19:51.529 --> 01:19:54.270
role and find a CEO, but not for 20 years. I've

01:19:54.270 --> 01:19:57.149
got some time. So I want to make sure we've set

01:19:57.149 --> 01:19:59.149
up, and this is a little bit at the end of Small

01:19:59.149 --> 01:20:02.479
Giants. The challenge I would have for that book

01:20:02.479 --> 01:20:05.319
or beyond is how do you build a business that

01:20:05.319 --> 01:20:08.260
never has to be bought or sold and can outlast

01:20:08.260 --> 01:20:12.220
the next generation? It's not about you predicting

01:20:12.220 --> 01:20:15.100
what happens in 50 years. It's about you setting

01:20:15.100 --> 01:20:17.819
up systems and leadership that are adaptable

01:20:17.819 --> 01:20:20.380
enough to still meet those needs and those values

01:20:20.380 --> 01:20:23.800
for those years to come. So very big challenge

01:20:23.800 --> 01:20:25.939
and not one I would say that was the top of mind

01:20:25.939 --> 01:20:27.779
for business school where it's like sell things

01:20:27.779 --> 01:20:30.369
and move really quickly. I want to make sure

01:20:30.369 --> 01:20:32.850
we can build a generational business for really

01:20:32.850 --> 01:20:36.210
decades to come that is built to last and isn't

01:20:36.210 --> 01:20:38.750
then just bought and sold to the next highest

01:20:38.750 --> 01:20:41.090
bidder. So don't yet know what that looks like,

01:20:41.130 --> 01:20:42.729
but I've thankfully got some time to figure out

01:20:42.729 --> 01:20:44.449
exactly how we might structure that down the

01:20:44.449 --> 01:20:48.850
line too. I just shared an interview that Simon

01:20:48.850 --> 01:20:51.850
Sinek did with one of his mentors who I forget

01:20:51.850 --> 01:20:54.850
the industry he was in, but huge, huge business.

01:20:55.189 --> 01:20:58.409
But like Richard Branson, like so many of these

01:20:58.409 --> 01:21:02.340
successful, entrepreneurs that you hear, it was

01:21:02.340 --> 01:21:05.399
initially or is still initially people focused.

01:21:05.479 --> 01:21:07.520
And it seems like, you know, if you take care

01:21:07.520 --> 01:21:10.239
of your own people, then the product, the customer,

01:21:10.319 --> 01:21:12.960
obviously that kind of, you know, by osmosis,

01:21:12.960 --> 01:21:15.460
they end up being happy too. Is that what is

01:21:15.460 --> 01:21:19.710
taught in the book? the human side, because that's

01:21:19.710 --> 01:21:22.489
what's discarded so much in a lot of the first

01:21:22.489 --> 01:21:24.250
responder professions at the moment. And I think

01:21:24.250 --> 01:21:26.890
we need to circle around and again, take examples

01:21:26.890 --> 01:21:30.930
from the business world, the successful business

01:21:30.930 --> 01:21:34.909
world, and refine the most valuable commodity

01:21:34.909 --> 01:21:37.579
that we have, which is the human being. Yeah,

01:21:37.600 --> 01:21:39.899
and that's the big root of all of these companies.

01:21:40.039 --> 01:21:42.340
So it's the hyper focus and obsession on the

01:21:42.340 --> 01:21:44.800
customer and their needs and not deviating from

01:21:44.800 --> 01:21:47.119
it, which might cause you to say no to some opportunities.

01:21:47.579 --> 01:21:51.319
And then the relentless focus on bettering and

01:21:51.319 --> 01:21:54.539
repurposing and continuing to upskill employees.

01:21:55.100 --> 01:21:57.840
As an example, there's a sandwich chain in Ann

01:21:57.840 --> 01:22:01.319
Arbor, Michigan, that had a woman who was incredibly

01:22:01.319 --> 01:22:03.699
talented and helped handle a lot of their operations,

01:22:03.840 --> 01:22:05.920
but she wanted to leave and go to law school.

01:22:07.149 --> 01:22:09.050
I've learned a lot here, but I want to be a lawyer.

01:22:09.430 --> 01:22:12.409
They decided to take a very big bet for an early,

01:22:12.489 --> 01:22:15.130
at the time, sandwich shop, and they paid for

01:22:15.130 --> 01:22:17.569
her to go to law school. They then paid for her

01:22:17.569 --> 01:22:19.729
to come back and employed her as a lawyer, despite

01:22:19.729 --> 01:22:22.789
not having perfect work lined up yet for exactly

01:22:22.789 --> 01:22:25.130
how it would fit in. And she went to build out

01:22:25.130 --> 01:22:27.609
entire other company structures for how they

01:22:27.609 --> 01:22:30.409
have an overarching... portfolio company, and

01:22:30.409 --> 01:22:32.289
they have the sandwich group, a gift shop one,

01:22:32.390 --> 01:22:35.569
very well structured, but she helped set up that

01:22:35.569 --> 01:22:37.850
entity. And it's not that she needed to be a

01:22:37.850 --> 01:22:41.050
lawyer per se to do it, but her retaining her,

01:22:41.130 --> 01:22:43.029
when you think of the people side was the biggest

01:22:43.029 --> 01:22:45.970
thing. She knew the business so well, she'd been

01:22:45.970 --> 01:22:48.569
there for years and cared about it. So we have

01:22:48.569 --> 01:22:51.229
every two weeks internally for station wise,

01:22:51.329 --> 01:22:54.489
we have upward feedback where folks give me feedback.

01:22:54.569 --> 01:22:56.609
So it's a separate time to make sure that they

01:22:56.609 --> 01:22:58.949
are getting their needs met. But then between

01:22:58.949 --> 01:23:01.609
those, we have meetings on what's your professional

01:23:01.609 --> 01:23:04.050
development goal? Like, do you want more product

01:23:04.050 --> 01:23:06.050
management exposure where we could carve off

01:23:06.050 --> 01:23:08.649
10 to 20 % of your time to be that in the next

01:23:08.649 --> 01:23:11.420
few months? We don't like to wait. a year for

01:23:11.420 --> 01:23:13.140
a promotion because we're a startup and can move

01:23:13.140 --> 01:23:16.520
faster so that both employee development, making

01:23:16.520 --> 01:23:19.079
sure folks stay motivated and excited, and then

01:23:19.079 --> 01:23:21.479
growing enough as a company so we have room for

01:23:21.479 --> 01:23:24.100
them to land. And then we can have a vision to

01:23:24.100 --> 01:23:26.220
say, yes, let's put you in a new type of role

01:23:26.220 --> 01:23:29.140
and see how it goes, but focus on that person

01:23:29.140 --> 01:23:31.779
and keeping them in versus what they're doing.

01:23:32.239 --> 01:23:34.739
Not how the fire service is thought of, or to

01:23:34.739 --> 01:23:37.180
be fair, how government can think is flexibly

01:23:37.180 --> 01:23:39.279
because you have to have a very specific role

01:23:39.279 --> 01:23:41.739
and job description for your budget. And if it's

01:23:41.739 --> 01:23:44.199
gone, you lose it. But just that same thoughtfulness

01:23:44.199 --> 01:23:46.979
of because once it's gone, we lose it. How do

01:23:46.979 --> 01:23:49.319
we commit to these people and retool or reskill

01:23:49.319 --> 01:23:51.539
them within the same budget challenges every

01:23:51.539 --> 01:23:55.100
agency has? Love it. There's so many parallels.

01:23:55.560 --> 01:23:57.760
All right. Well, the next question, what about

01:23:57.760 --> 01:24:01.199
film, documentary, television, any that you love?

01:24:01.930 --> 01:24:06.069
Ooh, definitely a big fan of any cyberpunk dystopia

01:24:06.069 --> 01:24:10.590
usually. So Black Mirror, I really like Interstellar

01:24:10.590 --> 01:24:13.069
as a, I guess, dystopia beginning, but yeah,

01:24:13.109 --> 01:24:16.590
good movie for sure. But yeah, anything that's

01:24:16.590 --> 01:24:20.989
a like science concept and like big challenge,

01:24:21.029 --> 01:24:23.810
like how will we solve this? Arrival, I also

01:24:23.810 --> 01:24:25.729
liked because it gets into like language and

01:24:25.729 --> 01:24:28.909
communication with aliens. So just those types

01:24:28.909 --> 01:24:31.720
of... Like movies, I would say really get my

01:24:31.720 --> 01:24:33.920
gears turning and then same with books. I'll

01:24:33.920 --> 01:24:36.279
gravitate for the more personal reading to the

01:24:36.279 --> 01:24:39.319
sci -fi side. So truly anything in that realm

01:24:39.319 --> 01:24:42.020
have started watching more horror movies, which

01:24:42.020 --> 01:24:45.359
I like, but sadly with the time movies take,

01:24:45.479 --> 01:24:47.500
I usually am more of a TV show person these days.

01:24:47.560 --> 01:24:51.079
So yeah, any dark or scary TV show that has a

01:24:51.079 --> 01:24:52.840
sci -fi twist, I'll probably be interested in.

01:24:53.840 --> 01:24:55.680
Absolutely. There was that, every time someone

01:24:55.680 --> 01:24:57.720
says Black Mirror, it's that one episode where

01:24:57.720 --> 01:25:00.630
there's the guys in the video game. Oh, yeah.

01:25:00.770 --> 01:25:05.529
I was like, this is not what I thought when I

01:25:05.529 --> 01:25:09.189
fell asleep. Very strange episode. But yeah,

01:25:09.289 --> 01:25:14.890
technology. So there we go. All right. Well,

01:25:14.970 --> 01:25:17.090
the next question, is there a person you'd recommend

01:25:17.090 --> 01:25:20.109
to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to

01:25:20.109 --> 01:25:22.369
the first responders, military and associated

01:25:22.369 --> 01:25:27.430
professions of the world? Oh, I. Yeah, two, I

01:25:27.430 --> 01:25:29.670
guess, came to mind immediately. If you haven't

01:25:29.670 --> 01:25:33.310
met him yet, Chief Nehemiah, he's the Boise Fire

01:25:33.310 --> 01:25:36.489
Chief and the president of the Western Fire Chiefs

01:25:36.489 --> 01:25:40.229
Association. So we're a partner of the Western

01:25:40.229 --> 01:25:43.729
Fire Chiefs. They put on, they're very much a

01:25:43.729 --> 01:25:46.220
tech forward. When you think of all the different

01:25:46.220 --> 01:25:49.300
fire chief groups for each region, the Western

01:25:49.300 --> 01:25:51.920
is at the forefront of wildfire, and they've

01:25:51.920 --> 01:25:54.000
had to figure out a lot of interoperability for

01:25:54.000 --> 01:25:56.500
the mutual aid that comes from that or the larger

01:25:56.500 --> 01:25:59.039
scale events they've had. So they're way ahead

01:25:59.039 --> 01:26:01.399
when you think of... What technology have we

01:26:01.399 --> 01:26:03.300
already tested and worked through and struggled

01:26:03.300 --> 01:26:06.420
with that the fire service needs? And Boise is

01:26:06.420 --> 01:26:08.779
a large, just under the metro department size.

01:26:09.039 --> 01:26:11.479
So he's seen it both as a practitioner and then

01:26:11.479 --> 01:26:13.880
also on the leadership side for the Western.

01:26:14.260 --> 01:26:17.500
So definitely would like very thoughtful perspective

01:26:17.500 --> 01:26:21.010
on how. technology is evolving in the fire service

01:26:21.010 --> 01:26:23.510
and then they're hosting innovation summits to

01:26:23.510 --> 01:26:26.149
help be a part of that change and then to relay

01:26:26.149 --> 01:26:28.409
that feedback to you know vendors for example

01:26:28.409 --> 01:26:30.810
so definitely would recommend him as part of

01:26:30.810 --> 01:26:34.189
that feedback loop and then david blankenship

01:26:34.189 --> 01:26:38.250
is the other one where he's um He works at Emergent

01:26:38.250 --> 01:26:40.850
now, but was one of the initial folks at Interra.

01:26:40.949 --> 01:26:43.970
And he saw very much how the data piece for Interra

01:26:43.970 --> 01:26:46.470
helped, but Interra doesn't do as much on the

01:26:46.470 --> 01:26:49.170
workflow side. And he wanted to do more to replace

01:26:49.170 --> 01:26:51.750
current tools they use and to do it cheaper.

01:26:51.970 --> 01:26:54.869
So Emergent is the only tool I've met that prices

01:26:54.869 --> 01:26:58.149
by call volume. So it's a way, a lower price

01:26:58.149 --> 01:27:00.329
than folks usually pay and predictable pricing.

01:27:00.590 --> 01:27:03.329
And they are expanding to, they have incident

01:27:03.329 --> 01:27:06.399
reports and incident command view. uh kind of

01:27:06.399 --> 01:27:09.220
a digital you know command board um but he because

01:27:09.220 --> 01:27:11.439
he was at intera and has been in the fire service

01:27:11.439 --> 01:27:14.000
and then decades of working on the software side

01:27:14.000 --> 01:27:16.640
a lot of really helpful experience and also a

01:27:16.640 --> 01:27:20.000
big like when you ask me questions about like

01:27:20.000 --> 01:27:22.100
how have you seen the fire service changing a

01:27:22.100 --> 01:27:24.479
lot of what i've been inspired by is him seeing

01:27:24.479 --> 01:27:26.819
you know years before that even and how long

01:27:26.819 --> 01:27:29.260
some of those changes take to give me a perspective

01:27:29.260 --> 01:27:31.479
of how quickly you know the technology adoption

01:27:31.479 --> 01:27:34.539
is going now post COVID especially, but in general.

01:27:34.699 --> 01:27:37.140
So he's definitely both been around the block

01:27:37.140 --> 01:27:38.920
and helped with a lot of the tools, including

01:27:38.920 --> 01:27:42.060
some of the big ones. Brilliant. I appreciate

01:27:42.060 --> 01:27:45.100
that. Thank you. Very last question then before

01:27:45.100 --> 01:27:47.359
we make sure everyone knows where to find you

01:27:47.359 --> 01:27:50.300
and StationWise, what do you do to decompress?

01:27:51.470 --> 01:27:53.529
Oh, good question. Reading is a big one, which

01:27:53.529 --> 01:27:56.930
I alluded to. I read like one to three books

01:27:56.930 --> 01:27:59.729
a month these days. So pretty frequent reader,

01:27:59.869 --> 01:28:02.390
especially with all the air travel to fire departments.

01:28:02.869 --> 01:28:05.970
I have a dog that is my best friend and love

01:28:05.970 --> 01:28:08.989
to take her everywhere so she can fly on planes.

01:28:09.149 --> 01:28:11.829
She'll travel with me, not quite every single

01:28:11.829 --> 01:28:13.789
department, but to a lot of the longer trips

01:28:13.789 --> 01:28:16.630
I'll do especially. Do like four miles of walks

01:28:16.630 --> 01:28:18.390
a day with her and she's pretty spoiled these

01:28:18.390 --> 01:28:20.869
days. And then the other big one is I would say

01:28:20.869 --> 01:28:23.829
video games. Do plenty of other working out when

01:28:23.829 --> 01:28:27.449
I can, but I built my gaming computer. Big fan

01:28:27.449 --> 01:28:30.010
of... Tons of different types of video games,

01:28:30.170 --> 01:28:32.409
except first person shooters, which bore me,

01:28:32.449 --> 01:28:35.489
sadly, but pretty much any other game. I like

01:28:35.489 --> 01:28:38.270
playing local ones with friends and I now have

01:28:38.270 --> 01:28:41.270
a VR headset. So debating bringing that in when

01:28:41.270 --> 01:28:43.850
we eventually get a station wise office to have

01:28:43.850 --> 01:28:45.390
some, you know, fun game nights, which could

01:28:45.390 --> 01:28:49.930
be good. How advanced is VR these days? I had

01:28:49.930 --> 01:28:52.930
the, I think it was the second Oculus, which

01:28:52.930 --> 01:28:56.250
was good, but you know. I know there was still

01:28:56.250 --> 01:28:57.810
a lot of limitations. You certainly didn't feel

01:28:57.810 --> 01:29:01.210
like you were really... I went for the Valve

01:29:01.210 --> 01:29:04.710
Index, which is far more expensive. I won't tell

01:29:04.710 --> 01:29:06.529
you how much. I don't remember, thankfully, because

01:29:06.529 --> 01:29:09.710
it was long enough ago. But each lens is a 4K

01:29:09.710 --> 01:29:12.270
lens and it needs like a constant power cord

01:29:12.270 --> 01:29:15.670
plugged into the TV or the computer, but completely

01:29:15.670 --> 01:29:19.449
different night and day experience. It's still...

01:29:19.770 --> 01:29:22.029
not perfect enough that I'm like, eh, it's more

01:29:22.029 --> 01:29:24.829
of a novelty. So I think it needs a lot more

01:29:24.829 --> 01:29:27.630
in terms of you can wear it for a longer time

01:29:27.630 --> 01:29:29.770
without your eyes getting strained. It's still,

01:29:29.869 --> 01:29:32.729
even with two 4K lenses, that's so close to your

01:29:32.729 --> 01:29:36.310
eyes. So it's not. perfect and i think to add

01:29:36.310 --> 01:29:38.869
double the pixels would obviously make the processing

01:29:38.869 --> 01:29:42.529
power way worse my hope is actually usbc makes

01:29:42.529 --> 01:29:45.090
this more possible because you can transfer power

01:29:45.090 --> 01:29:48.310
and display at the same time so as that comes

01:29:48.310 --> 01:29:51.489
out more i think maybe but i'm not for the mobile

01:29:51.489 --> 01:29:53.789
ones that are standalone i'm not as much a fan

01:29:53.789 --> 01:29:57.189
of those uh yet because it's so it's so far away

01:29:57.189 --> 01:29:58.770
from where you could wear it for a long time

01:29:58.770 --> 01:30:00.670
without getting the headache at least for me

01:30:00.670 --> 01:30:03.380
still very cool because that the apple backpack

01:30:03.380 --> 01:30:05.500
i liked whatever i forget what that was called

01:30:05.500 --> 01:30:08.159
but i thought that was awesome and very impractical

01:30:08.159 --> 01:30:10.039
and i would never use it but if i could have

01:30:10.039 --> 01:30:11.859
it more in backpack form and not worry about

01:30:11.859 --> 01:30:14.619
the power then i would be all over that so still

01:30:14.619 --> 01:30:16.199
a ways away it looks like but hopefully in the

01:30:16.199 --> 01:30:19.409
next like five years or so yeah Yeah, there was

01:30:19.409 --> 01:30:21.149
a boxing game that I liked and it was a great

01:30:21.149 --> 01:30:24.350
workout. You literally shadow boxing, but I almost

01:30:24.350 --> 01:30:25.949
put my fist through the glass door a couple of

01:30:25.949 --> 01:30:29.310
times. I thought I fractured my hand when I punched.

01:30:29.369 --> 01:30:32.550
I fractured a hard plated display thing and it

01:30:32.550 --> 01:30:35.270
just cracked the acrylic on it. That hurts so

01:30:35.270 --> 01:30:38.189
badly, but my finger seems intact. So yeah, you

01:30:38.189 --> 01:30:39.670
definitely have to back away and have enough

01:30:39.670 --> 01:30:42.930
room cleared. It was pretty painful. Absolutely.

01:30:43.489 --> 01:30:46.020
All right. Well, for people listening then. Where

01:30:46.020 --> 01:30:48.479
can they find StationWise online, learn more

01:30:48.479 --> 01:30:50.500
about it? And then where are the best places

01:30:50.500 --> 01:30:54.539
to find you specifically? Yeah, it's just www

01:30:54.539 --> 01:31:00.100
.stationwise .com. W -I -S -E, all one word.

01:31:00.899 --> 01:31:03.239
And then we have plenty of information on our

01:31:03.239 --> 01:31:05.460
site about how the product works. So that can

01:31:05.460 --> 01:31:08.539
show folks more about the scheduling side, the

01:31:08.539 --> 01:31:11.760
integrations and all that good stuff. For reaching

01:31:11.760 --> 01:31:13.840
out, you can just fill out the form on the site

01:31:13.840 --> 01:31:17.949
or email me, just Marcus. M -A -R -C -U -S, also

01:31:17.949 --> 01:31:20.869
at stationwise .com. But yeah, always happy to

01:31:20.869 --> 01:31:23.529
chat with folks. If we have a lot of folks, we're

01:31:23.529 --> 01:31:26.130
adding six new states between now and the end

01:31:26.130 --> 01:31:28.289
of the year, which is crazy. So we've added about

01:31:28.289 --> 01:31:30.310
one new state a month for the last few months

01:31:30.310 --> 01:31:32.829
and folks are now signing this month. So always

01:31:32.829 --> 01:31:35.289
open to talking to folks across both the U .S.

01:31:35.289 --> 01:31:37.869
and started talking to other countries too. So

01:31:37.869 --> 01:31:40.729
easy to get ahold of us that way. And if you

01:31:40.729 --> 01:31:42.649
have any pains with your staffing, you know where

01:31:42.649 --> 01:31:46.039
to reach me. Always happy to chat about it. Well,

01:31:46.140 --> 01:31:47.699
I want to thank you again. It's been a great

01:31:47.699 --> 01:31:50.060
conversation. As I alluded to, obviously, the

01:31:50.060 --> 01:31:52.760
elements that are really going to improve the

01:31:52.760 --> 01:31:55.199
physical health and mental health, the time at

01:31:55.199 --> 01:31:58.699
home, that excites me tremendously. Being able

01:31:58.699 --> 01:32:02.460
to show, hey, this is the perceived save cost

01:32:02.460 --> 01:32:04.590
of actually... making a healthier workforce,

01:32:04.710 --> 01:32:06.569
for example. But obviously for all the people

01:32:06.569 --> 01:32:08.550
listening that are still in these different ranks,

01:32:08.710 --> 01:32:11.170
I'm sure they're seeing this as such an improvement

01:32:11.170 --> 01:32:14.770
as far as efficiency and autonomy, like I said.

01:32:14.930 --> 01:32:17.630
So I want to thank you so much for being so generous

01:32:17.630 --> 01:32:19.810
with your time and coming on the Behind the Shield

01:32:19.810 --> 01:32:22.310
podcast today. Of course, I really appreciate

01:32:22.310 --> 01:32:22.789
you having me.