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Welcome guys to episode 237 of Behind the Shield
podcast. As always, my name is James Geering,
and I am so excited to bring to you an incredible
woman this week, Olivia Jackson. Now, Olivia's
life story is nothing short of incredible from
being born in South Africa, finding herself in
the world of modeling, then transitioning to
the world of professional Muay Thai in Thailand,
entering the stunt world, a horrific near -fatal
accident during filming, and then her incredibly
inspiring, powerful journey back from that injury
to where she is now. So as I always say before
we start the interview, please take a moment,
go to your podcast app, subscribe to the show,
and then leave feedback. But then the big thing
is take your social media and share these incredible
episodes. Every single week, I have one of these
men or women whose story I know is going to inspire
people worldwide, and you guys are the key to
getting these episodes out. So with that being
said, I introduce to you Olivia Jackson. Enjoy.
So Olivia, I want to start by saying thank you
so much for taking the time to come on the podcast.
Thanks for having me. All right, so where are
we finding you on planet Earth today? Today I'm
in England, in the UK, where my home is, in a
very small village outside of London, about an
hour outside of London. Fantastic. Now, obviously
from your accent, that is not where you were
born. So first proper question, where were you
born and what was your family unit like when
you were young? Well, I was born in Johannesburg
in South Africa, real shithole. But I left there
when I was a baby and we moved to this area called
Richmond in South Africa, in Natal in South Africa.
on a small holding, which was like kids' paradise.
There was trees to climb, fruit trees to take
fruit off of, nut trees. We spent hours cracking
nuts. Huge rockeries with things to hide in and
pretend it's a school or your house or whatever,
loads of tunnels. It was like streams with ponds.
loads of things to swing on vines and swings
my dad made at night time there's loads of fireflies
around so we used to go around and catch fireflies
and put the poor things in jars so that it lights
up but in the morning they're always dead poor
things that's a huge metaphor for many things
in life huh yeah but yeah such a cool childhood
then just playing on the farm on the weekends
And there was loads of the staff on the farm
who had their little kids living there. And so
we used to play with them running around and
playing, you know. We were swimming in the pool
and jumping in mud all day and make slippery
slides. My dad had a nursery. So he had loads
and loads of very, very long pieces of thick
plastic. So we would, on the hills, we'd make
a long slippery slide and put some. a dishwashing
liquid and a hose pipe on it and slide down.
Really good fun. So how much do you attribute
later on becoming a fighter and ultimately a
stunt person to just that rugged life on the
farm? Well, I love that lifestyle. I think I'm
in my old age, well, 38. I'm going back to that
now. All I want to do is live on a farm. And
I think maybe it's from that I don't know, but
I've always loved dirt. So, like, if it was motorbikes,
I loved motocross. Road bikes, yeah, I liked,
but I loved, you know, riding in the dirt. The
same with cars. Like, rally driving is so much
better for me than, you know, road racing or
track racing. Yeah, so I think it's sort of stuck
with me. Quite a – I don't know what the word
is. I think I – yeah, well, I've always liked
the outdoors and – what's the word? Like I'm
not a kind of person who likes minds getting
dirty or minds getting hurt, I guess. So, yeah,
that plays a part. Brilliant. Yeah, I grew up
on a farm myself too. It's funny you talk about
riding through dirt. I think it's a lot more
forgiving. You can get flung from a motorbike
and actually just roll out of it and be okay,
or a horse. But yeah, on the road, it's not so
forgiving. Yeah, and it's also just so much more
exciting on the dirt. It's more forgiving when
you fall, but there's loads more going on. It's
easy to stay in a straight line when you're riding
on tar. really boring but on dirt you concentrate
so much more and you know you're probably getting
pain from side to side but the fun is if you
stay on and keep going forward yeah absolutely
actually i remember you know on the farm doing
you know donuts and four -wheel skids and all
that stuff and then when Not too long ago, embarrassingly
recently, in my suburban house before this one,
we had about a third of an acre. And if it was
raining, I'd take my car in the back and do donuts
in the backyard with my son. And then the neighbors
every so often would call and be like, hey, there's
some lunatic doing stunts in the car. I'm like,
oh, yeah, I'll call the police. Thanks. A few
years ago, before I had the accident, I went
out two arms and I had a manual car. In South
Africa, we called it a bucky. It's a pickup truck
or a ute or whatever you want to call it. I could
transport my motocross bike. I always used to
get my mom in the car if I picked her up and
went somewhere. Then I'd find a gravel bit. Every
time I saw a gravel bit, I'd go and do handbrake
turns around it. You mentioned about the people
helping on the farm. When people from outside...
the nation of Africa or the continent of Africa.
Yeah, there's obviously racism is one of the
first things that comes in or apartheid. What
was your perspective as a young girl growing
up? Did you see apartheid? Was there normal integration
where you were on the farm? What was your experience
with that specifically? Well, yeah, I grew up
in like, you know, proper apartheid times. I
think Mandela only became president in 94, which
was, I was 13 years old. I actually remember
when the first, non -white was allowed to come
to our school. It was an Indian girl, poor girl.
But anyway, that was like, I actually remember
that and I was probably only about 10 years old.
So that was quite a big change. On the farm,
I mean, I didn't really notice because I was
younger, but so I had this, one of the black
staff on the farm, they had this daughter called
Golay. I used to love playing with her. She was
so cool. But she was absolutely petrified of
my mom. We had a long driveway. And my mom used
to come driving up the driveway. And you just
used to see Gwole absolutely bolt. Just bolt
and run for the bushes and hide in the bushes.
My mom and my dad were really good to their staff.
It didn't matter if you were black or white or
purple or pink. But I guess the little kids were
just really scared of white adults. Really funny.
But that was a weird time because there was lots
of, at that time, there was lots of fighting
in between. In South Africa, you have, at the
time, two different parties that the black people
followed. They're called Nkarta and ANC. ANC
is Mandela's party that Mandela was in. And there
was loads of fighting between those parties,
between the sort of African people. And there
are lots. we had loads of them over the staff
and move onto the farm because it was fighting
in the sort of townships, which is quite sad.
And actually in the end, we ended up moving away
from there because it was just so much fighting,
which is quite sad. Yeah, no, it is. And that's
the problem with that, that hate. you know, that's
behind all of that. I mean, obviously, there
was horrendous things happening to, you know,
so many of the black people there. And obviously,
there was that reflects them to a lot of the,
you know, the white people that have been growing
up through generations on farms that way. And
actually, my stepbrother -in -law was from there,
and they were basically run off their farm. And,
you know, again, it's insanity. It kind of reminds
me, there was a picture recently on the internet.
And it was so cute. And it was these two young
boys. One was black, one was white. I think it
was here in America. And I want to say they were
about five, six, maybe. And they said they both
got the same haircut so they could confuse their
teacher as a practical joke. You know, so they
weren't seeing themselves different at all. And
that's what always just blows me away is that
when we're all young, like you were when you
were growing up on the farm. there isn't that
hatred, there isn't that prejudice, that segregation.
And then that poison starts creeping in as we
grow up and then we're divided. So I'm always
intrigued to hear people's perspectives from
different parts of the world. Yeah. I mean, people
are crazy. They'll always find something to fight
about. It's not black and white, it's Indian
and black or blacker. from one area versus black
from another area like that. Now in South Africa,
there's loads of problems with, you know, what
happened in Zimbabwe, really, really fucking
sad, you know, where they gave the land away
and then loads of people, the country's completely
bankrupt and everybody lost their jobs. So there
was absolutely no money. There's still no money
in that country. So most of the African people,
Zimbabweans, had to try and find work out of
it. So a lot of them have come to South Africa
because it's close. And now there's lots of problems.
Zimbabweans generally are very sweet people,
and a lot of them don't drink alcohol, which
is a big bonus because a lot of the African people
in South Africa get really tanked on the weekend.
They love a big bender, or every single night
sometimes. So a lot of people in South Africa
hire Zimbabweans because they're really just
good workers, you know. And then there's always
problems now with the black people in South Africa.
They hate the black people from Zimbabwe because
they come and take all their work. So they literally,
if you're Zimbabwean, you can only live in certain
areas and you have to travel in groups because
they just chuck them off trains, stab them in
the streets, you name it. Wow. Yeah, and again,
it all comes back from that hate and that greed
and power at the top. Same with the Syrians.
I mean, you look at the footage of some of these,
what used to be a city that these people are
fleeing from, they don't have a choice. And then,
obviously, then you get this kind of resistance
to them sheltering in certain countries. And
the underlying thing is that the few are making
decisions that are getting themselves extremely
powerful, extremely rich. But, you know, these
are all victims and whether they end up becoming
bad people because of their circumstances, you
know, these decisions that some of these people
in power make, there's a domino effect that lasts
for generations after that. Yeah, that's a really
sad bit. Yeah. All right. Well, then back to
your early life. Obviously, you end up becoming...
um in a couple of professions where you're using
your body as a tool so aside from actually running
around the the farm did were there any specific
sports that you started playing when you were
a child uh yeah i did do sports but i wasn't
like so like completely into any i used to play
tennis pretty gay but i did and then i used to
swim i was a really strong swimmer but i never
really had the focus where you know just like
complete dedication and pushed my skills to further,
you know, to higher levels. I just sort of played
with whatever I enjoyed and left it at that.
I played hockey, but I was always really shit
at hockey. I was always on the B team. And then,
you know, just in South Africa, you have to do
quite a few sports when you're at school. I think
you had to do two sports per season and then
any additional ones you could do. You had to
do sport pretty much every day after school,
which is good, I think. I love sports now. But
I mainly got, like, dedicatedly into sports when
I left school. Right. Okay. Now, when you were
leaving school, what was your original career
aspiration? Well, when I was in high school,
last three years of high school, I went to a
really good forward -thinking school. And at
that time, it was quite different. But the school
was all about, I think their motto was making
women. It was an all -girls school. Making women
for the real world, I think. So they tried to
get us to do a lot of work experience. things
we wanted to do. And then we had to go through
the whole interview process, obviously for 10,
and a CV process and all that. And I was just
trying to think of things I could do, work experience.
And I think I did interior. First, I was like,
I want to become a vet because I love animals.
And then I don't think I did that. I did work
experience in interior design, totally random.
When I was only a teenager, I was just bashing
out things that sounded cool. Yeah, so that was
my idea at the time. Really did not think I'd
become what I did become. Yeah. All right, well,
then the first thing you became was a model,
is that right? Yeah, which actually started in
school because I was at an old girls' school
and there's a boys' school, which is... like
the joining school, the boys' school to ours.
They're a very wealthy school, boys' school,
and they have lots of, you know, posh people
go to school there. So they have all sorts of
– they do lots of fundraising for different charities.
And once I had a modeling show for some charity,
I don't remember what, but they had all these,
you know, top designers and things come along.
So they asked some of us girls and boys to do
the modeling show. I was like, okay, I'll do
that. And then they had one to show us how to
model walk, probably to walk on the catwalk.
They had this top South African model at the
time. Her name was Jodie. I don't remember her
surname. She had ginger hair, I remember. And
she, yeah, she showed us how to model. And then
she said to me, I would do well at modeling.
She thinks I should start, so she gave me some
context. My mother said, no, I can't start until
I finish school. So, yeah, I finished school.
By the time I finished school, I wasn't quite
sure what exactly what I wanted to do. So I just
thought, I'm just going to start modeling and
see how that goes until I find out what I really
want to do. So I started modeling and then just
carried on with that, really moved to Cape Town
on my own. um to because that's where the biggest
industry is uh yeah and then started modeling
there and then um started modeling in europe
for half the year in cape town for half of the
year models sort of follow seasons around the
world it'll be like a season in milan for a few
months and then paris for a few months or then
london and then south africa or you know things
like that yeah Well, I heard you talking about
that and we'll get into the Nutella in a moment.
But you made a comment about possibly being lonely.
And it is an interesting thing because you hear
some of these people when you actually talk to
them that are at these pinnacle careers, whether
it's movie star or successful model. And you
would think the man or the woman that finds themselves
there would be completely fulfilled. But what
did you find about in the modeling specific?
Was it fulfilling to you or did you feel? Like
you hear, for example, with these members of
these bands that when they go on tour, it seems
incredibly glamorous, but actually they find
themselves very lonely touring away from their
family for months and months and months. Yeah.
Well, when I first went to Milan for my first
season in Europe, I did really well, a lot better
than I expected. And the modeling side of it,
like actually being there on the day and in front
of camera and working with the team, I always
loved. Sometimes it's really testing and really
difficult and you just feel like crying because
it's a lot of pressure as a model. But most of
the time I really loved it. But the scene around
it, I really just did not like. Especially in
Milan, there's so many old, creepy perverts.
They just get a whole lot of models to go out
to dinner with them. It's so sad and so disgusting.
And you just go out to dinner with these creepy
old men. And then a lot of them go partying.
They give you drugs. Nothing horrible ever happens.
Nothing creepier than that. But I just wasn't
interested in that whole lifestyle. And a lot
of the time you have to stay in model houses.
So the agency, if they know you'll do well in
that specific market, they'll offer to fly you
out. They'll fly you out and they'll put you
in a – they probably own some apartments and
they just stack the models in there. It's normally
two to a room. And I like my own space. I don't
like sharing. And a lot of the times the models
are really dirty. I remember once staying in
a model house and there was some girls there
that left tampons – used tampons on the side
of the bath. And I'm quite a really clean person,
so I can't handle being around mess or anything.
And a lot of those girls, a lot of them are young,
but also a lot of them are very lonely. They're
away from their boyfriends, away from their parents,
so that feels quite sad. Sometimes you stay in
a model house and it's really great and you all
get on like really good mates and you sort of
make friends for life. You go partying all the
time. And it just depends. It's always different.
But my favorite was to stay in Cape Town. Because
half of the year, the muddling season was really
busy in Cape Town. All the sort of northern hemisphere
countries came to Cape Town to shoot in their
summer. So it was perfect. It was really busy
there. And it's such a good lifestyle. You could
just chill at the beach, walk up the mountains.
There's loads of sports to do there. It's always
good weather. Really nice people around. And
I suppose it was more my home. So, yeah, I felt
better then. Right. Well, that, I guess, leads
us then to Nutella and your entrance into the
martial arts. So, I'd love to hear that story.
That's a weird way to get into martial arts.
Yeah, I was in Milan. And I was staying with
this creepy old man that owned an agency. Oh,
man. But anyway, so I guess I was a little bit
depressed. And so then I was like, oh, Nutella,
that looks nice. I kept going to the supermarket
and buying little tubs of Nutella. I could not
stop munching, probably because I was a little
depressed. But, yeah, I couldn't stop munching
it. And obviously I put on a little bit of weight.
And then little jars turned to big jars and just
munched away. And by the time I came home, I
mean, I was. It wasn't fat, but at the time,
you had to be very slim for modeling. So I put
on a little bit of weight, and then when I got
back, I was at a casting, and some models were
talking about how to lose weight or some bullshit
like that. One girl said to me, though, she started
this thing called kickboxing. Down the road,
it was quite like a grungy gym at the time. It
was sort of behind a nightclub. She was like,
hey, I'll just be on there. This little club
does kickboxing. Really good exercise. I was
like, oh, I'll go down and give that a try. Yeah,
so I went down and gave that a try once, and
I was like, oh, my God, this is fucking amazing.
So I started going back like three times a week,
and then started going back every day. And then,
yeah, I started getting more and more into it.
And then there's all these – you have like beginner's
class and intermediate, and then you have advanced
classes. And then I always used to watch, there
was also a class called fighter's class, which
were very separate. It was all, you know, the
hobnobs, all the really good guys that used to
fight. I always used to dream, I would love to
be in the fighter's class. I was quite determined
to get better and get in that class. So eventually
I did get in that class. And eventually after
two years, I wanted to start competing. See,
that's amazing that you just went for fitness
originally. And, you know, as I'm sure we're
going to talk about more, you know, your method
of earning a living was aesthetics and how you
looked. And then you got drawn into this beautiful
art of Muay Thai, which, you know, undoubtedly
every single class you walk away with bruises
somewhere. Yeah, there was loads of problems
for some time because I always used to – I mean,
not massive bruises, but you get a lot of – you
block a lot in Muay Thai. So you get lots of
bruises on your shins and lots of bruises on
your hips or wherever where you get kicked. So
sometimes my model agents used to get really
pissed off. I actually got a message on Instagram
the other day from a makeup artist that used
to work with me. Jesus. I don't know, 18 years
ago, 15 years ago or something. She said she
always remembers working with me because she
always had to cover up all the bruises. But it
was always all right. It actually opened up quite
an industry for me in modeling. Sorry, my cat's
climbing all over me. No, you're fine. Yeah,
it opened up an industry for me in modeling because...
I became quite sporty. I completely changed my
type of body, actually. I've always been a really
skinny person. Before that, I was pretty much
like I am now, which is some muscle but not,
you know, stacked, just really thin. And from
loads and loads of training in Muay Thai, I actually
become pretty muscular but still slim, which
you would have thought is not great for modeling.
But actually, there's so many sports brands out
there, you know. And they became loads of people
that needed more sporty looking or healthier
looking. Yeah. So that was actually ended up
quite good for me. Right. Well, just to interject
for a second. So you mentioned earlier in, you
know, pre Nutella, how everyone was, you know,
wanting to be very thin. I remember the waif
models, you know, the Kate Mosses and all those.
And, you know, how horrendous is that? Just as
a woman in that industry specifically. What has
been your observation of influences like martial
arts, CrossFit, mud runs, all these things of
really redefining how a woman should look and
what she should be able to do? I mean, it definitely
has changed. I remember those days, especially
in the beginning when I was modeling. It was
all sort of Kate Moss era where everybody needed
to be super thin. And I guess it depends on the
market where you're working. If you're working
in Japan, you need it to be really tiny. If you're
working in South Africa, it's more catalog industry,
so it's more natural. So you could be a little
bit healthier looking. It just depends. But it's
definitely changed over time. So obviously you've
got all those influences like CrossFit and just
a healthier outlook on women's bodies. And, yeah,
it's definitely changed. A lot of the models
you see now, even the supermodels, They'll be
really in shape, slim, but they'll be really
fit. Like they don't just starve themselves and
go walk on the catwalk. They're really trained.
So that is quite good, I guess. Yeah, I think
it is because they are role models for a lot
of young men and women, depending on what the
sex of the model is. And to have that role model
be, as you're saying, someone who's healthy rather
than someone who's just thin, really, I think,
steers people down the right path. Unless I'm
blind, it seems like the anemia, bulimia, anorexia,
you know, I mean, not anemia, excuse me, the
bulimia, the anorexia. I mean, they may have
poor red blood cells as well. But that era that
you and I saw when we were young, you don't really
see anymore. Even as a paramedic, I rarely, rarely
ever come across anyone who's got either of those
diseases anymore. No, I think I do hear of a
few teenagers that have it. But I mean, being
a teenager is nuts anyway, I guess. There's a
lot going on. But I think when it does happen,
it's often just teenagers, like 16 -year -olds
or something. Yeah, and that could be the exposure
now on social media may have had another negative
impact. So you didn't just train. You ended up
actually becoming a fighter. So I'd love to hear
about your fights in Cape Town and how that took
you overseas as well. So when I started fighting,
I obviously started fighting in the amateur league.
In Muay Thai amateur league is when you, I think
the women fight four rounds of two minutes. Sounds
really short, but it feels like four hours a
round. And you wear a headgear protection, a
chest pad, I think, and shin pads, and then I
can't remember what gloves, probably like 8 -ounce
or 10 -ounce gloves. So you've got quite a lot
of protection going on. So I started in that
league, and I fought one. My first fight, and
I won, very happy. Then the second fight, I fought
someone who was a bit heavier than me, and it
did not go well. I lost, and I got in a black
eye, which wasn't too bad, but I went to the
toilet afterwards, and I was a bit upset that
I'd lost, obviously, emotional. So I was crying
a little bit, and then I needed to blow my nose.
I'll give you some advice. If you ever got a
ding on the eye, do not blow your nose. Oh, my
God. I literally blew my nose, and in one instant,
my eye popped out like a goldfish eye. Like just
boom, popped. My sister was watching, and her
jaw just dropped. She was, oh, my God. So from
that moment, I had big, like, bubble goldfish
eye. I think it was the UFC recently. I think
Donald Cerrone had exactly the same thing. He
was hit and it looked like he fractured his orbit,
but actually he said after, he's like, I literally
just went to clear my nose and my eye bloomed
up. So I know exactly what you're talking about.
Yeah, it's mad. So that turned into a massive
black eye. And yeah, I couldn't do any modeling
for about two or three weeks. So that ended up
in a bit of a fight between my model agency and
my Muay Thai coach. And then so around that time
you were also exploring Buddhism, is that right?
And that's what took you to East Asia? Yeah,
I guess it all just sort of happened. I didn't
sort of start one thing and go into the other.
It all sort of just happened intermingled, I
guess. So when I came out of school, we didn't
really have phones. I don't think we had cell
phones at that time, maybe just... Those old
school ones that messaged or called. So I started
becoming interested in Buddhism. When I was in
school, I watched the movie Seven Years in Tibet,
which I love. I don't know what it is, but as
soon as I saw the scene of Tibet and I heard
those Tibetan, I forgot what they're called,
the big trumpets. I heard that sound and the
sound of the drums and everything. And something
drew me, and I was like, fuck me, I have to go
to that place. And since that day, it was my
mission that I wanted to go to Tibet. I found
out they were Buddhist, obviously, so I started
studying Buddhism. So for years, through modeling,
my goal was to take two years off of modeling
and go to study Buddhism. I wanted to stay in
a monastery. Well, originally, I wanted to go
to Tibet, but then I found out. that China overtook
Tibet and killed, raped, or kicked all of them
out. So most of them live in India now. So, yeah,
save enough money for modeling and get it out
there. It's funny because I heard you mention
that movie, you know, specifically in one of
the other interviews that you did. When I was
out living in Japan, I'll never forget. So the
Japanese, obviously, a lot of the stuff they
speak is their own tongue, but there are some
words that cross over that are basically mimicking
English. And right when I was over there, which
was about 2000, 2001, it was on Japanese TV.
And every time they were advertising it, it would
always be, Brad Pittow, seven years in Chebetto.
So it was exactly, they hadn't changed anything,
just stuck a few O's on the end of the word.
So yeah, that always makes me laugh when I hear
that specific movie. That is funny. So while
you were traveling, you found yourself in Thailand.
So my main goal was India, obviously. So I traveled
around quite a bit for three months, all around,
mostly in the north of India. And then I spent
another three or six months, I can't remember
exactly. I'm just staying in this place called
Dharamsala. It's in the foothills of the Himalaya.
It's where the Dalai Lama lives. So it's a big
Tibetan community there and a lot of – it's very
open to Westerners coming to study Buddhism there.
So I spent some time there. And then my sister
and her boyfriend at the time were in – they
were going on holiday in Thailand. It's pretty
close. Why don't you just pop over and say hello?
So I did that. I popped over and said hello.
And then a friend of mine also was staying in
this island in Thailand on the eastern coast
of Thailand called Koh Tao. So we all went there
for a little holiday. And then I thought, oh,
while I was there, I was like, oh, I could do
with some training. I hadn't trained in like
a year, and I'd just been mostly meditating or
just walking around. So I just wanted to move
my body. So I thought, oh, I'll do some training.
They must have a Muay Thai gym here. So I found
the only Muay Thai gym on the island. It's up
this dirt road, like quite a bit into the – it's
like inset into the jungle. Really cool. It's
called Island Muay Thai. Pretty original. And
so I went down there. just to do some pads. And,
oh, my God, I just loved the people. I did one
session, and then the guy, the owner of the gym
called Pitun, he said to me, hey, do you want
to do a fight? But I think about two years had
passed since I last fought, which is only amateur
anyway. I'd only had three fights. So I was like,
yeah, I'll do a fight. He said, well, there's
a fight in 10 days' time. Can you stay and do
that fight? So I said, yeah, I'll do that. So
I stayed, trained for 10 days and did a fight,
won. And then he said to me, do you want to have
another fight? There's another fight in three
weeks time. He's like, yeah, I'll stay and do
that. So I ended up staying and doing that. And
then I just absolutely fell in love with the
people at the gym and ended up staying there
for close on two years. Wow. And then you were
fighting under Muay Thai rules by that point.
So no pads. No, they don't have amateur in Thailand.
Right. So just gloves, that was it? Yeah. Right.
So did you fight the whole two years? I did.
So you only fight about once a month, sometimes
once every two months, sometimes you train for
about six weeks ahead and then you get up to
the day and well up to the week and the girl
has to cancel and you can't find somebody else.
So sometimes I'll end up a bit longer. But yeah,
but in general, the normal sort of thinking is
a fight a month or every six weeks. So I had
25 fights in total. So that's been 22 fights
out there. Yeah, I stayed in Kotao for a couple
of years and then I moved up to... Because Bangkok
is where all the main fighting is. It's the highest
standard of fighting in Thailand. So I just wanted
to up my game a bit. So I went to a gym in Bangkok.
Right. And then how did that go? Because as you
were saying, that's kind of like the top tier
when it comes to Muay Thai. Yeah. Well, I actually
can't remember all of my fights. I actually found
a video the other day of a fight that I had in
this place called Trang, which is... in the deep
south of Thailand, almost in Malaysia. And I
remember the manager of the gym asked me for
ages to go to it because he's from there. So
we went and visited there and I remember going
there and seeing all the places and seeing they
actually have a massive gym there which is full
of multiple champions there. But I don't remember
fighting there whatsoever. But I've got a video.
It's just like fight and throng. And I looked
at it and it's me fighting. I was like, my God,
I do not remember that. Well, you did have some
trauma though. So you're forgiven for not being
able to remember everything. All right. So then,
so I know there's going to be a transition where
you got into stunts, but what made you stop fighting
ultimately? Was it the stunt work was more lucrative
in the end or did you have a specific moment
where you'd had enough? Well, it kind of all
happened at the right time because I was going
out with this guy, like the main guy of the gym.
His name was Anuak. He's quite a big superstar
in Muay Thai world, especially in Thailand. So
we were going out and things were getting a little
fuzzy. So I just wasn't into the training that
much. I started skipping a few sessions or not
sleeping as well or whatever. So my fights got
postponed. So I just wasn't in it at that time.
One thing you should never do if you really want
to do well in sports, you should never fucking
get a girlfriend or boyfriend because it really
fucks things up. But anyway, at that time, sometimes
I used to still do modeling jobs. Fighting in
Thailand is never massive money unless you're
a massive superstar, which is mostly only men,
not women. And then it can be quite lucrative.
But otherwise, it's not very good money, which
didn't bother me because you don't pay to live
there. You live as a professional at the gym
and they feed you and house you. So I didn't
mind. I just loved it so much. But every now
and again, I take a modeling job to get some
extra bucks. I took a modeling job, and we were
shooting in Cambodia. And the guy that I was
shooting with, the other model for the shoot,
was a guy called Peter. And he was actually working
in Bangkok. He lived there. And he was working
as a casting director, well, on the casting team
for a film that was filming there. He found out
what I did, and he said, oh, they've been looking
for this French film called Lago Winch, the second
one. They're looking for this. this actress for
ages and they can't find somebody, they need
somebody that can do their own fighting stunts
and other stunts. And they obviously could act
the part and have the look and everything. So
we did a little interview, well, not interview,
casting in his room. And I ended up getting a
job. So that was at the time where everything
started getting a little fuzzy at the gym. So
I decided I think I'll sort of move on now. And
first I was still staying, living at the gym
and went in to do the days on the film. And then
eventually my boyfriend and I broke up, so I
moved out. I really just wanted my space and
freedom then as well because living in the gym,
like being a woman in Thailand, you really have
to be a woman. You have to dress in pink, and
you're not allowed to drink alcohol, and you
have to really be girly. And I was just like
over that bullshit by that time. So it was just
like I just want to be a normal Westerner now.
So I got my own. apartments in Bangkok and then
just carried on filming, really. Wow. Now, you
said Anna White. Am I right in thinking that's
one of the people that John Wayne Parr fought?
I don't know if they fought. Because I do recognize
the name. I've got a few Muay Thai guys that
I follow. But anyway, I know who you're talking
about. Yeah, he's a huge star, isn't he? He's
on social media. He's very Thai. Very. He's not
in any way on social media. I know what Kelsen
Ritt is his name. He's a really great fighter
when he was in his prime. Yeah, definitely. I
mean, I know we're not connected, but I know
some of the people I follow or I've trained with
have definitely trained with him as well or fought
him. So, yeah, but that's interesting because
when I travel, I went to drama school. I had
a martial arts background as well. I did the
sword training when I was in drama school. And
then when I traveled the world, I got to Sydney
and Universal Studios, the theme park, was looking
for stunt performers. And I ended up, you know,
just literally being in Sydney going, well, what
have I got to lose? And I showed up and it just
happened that I looked like the bad guy in the
Terminator 2 movie. So the same kind of thing.
It's funny how you said that. They were looking
for certain... you know, looks as well with the
skills as well. And I ended up falling in that
role, which led me through, you know, not a long,
long career in stunts, but definitely for about
a decade. So, yeah. Oh, cool. Right. So then,
so you did the French film. So where did the
stunts take you from there? Well, obviously the
French film was an acting role. I had to do my
own stunts. So they had a really cool team of
French guys out there. And they literally spent
days, weeks on weeks just spending all day trying
to – it's quite a shift, as you'll know, from
real fighting to screen fighting. And I actually
– and also on the team was a really good Thai
stunt coordinator called Singh Stunt. And so
the Thai team and the French team, both great
people. And I remember having such arguments
with the French guys. because I remember specifically
once about a teep, you know, a push kick forward.
I do a push kick, so I push kick part of the
scene. No, you're going up. Don't go up on your
toes. I was like, yeah, but that's how you push
kick, how you teep. He's like, no, you don't
teep like that. I was like, you do teep like
that. I used to get so pissed off because I was
like, no, it's not proper. I remember once saying,
because I used to speak quite fluent Thai, so
he said to me in Thai, he's like, just go. and
cool down go wait around the corner then cool
down um but yeah it obviously took a little bit
of a shift to get the performance side of it
and made things bigger you know and um put more
performance into but i loved that part so much
so i i just really just carried on doing that
i made some good connections in thailand i still
love living in thailand at the time so i did
some more films with sing and then met some of
the other stunt people as you go and then uh
worked for the other stunt teams in thailand
now yeah i just kept on making connections and
kept filming really brilliant now you worked
in bollywood too it's funny because i went around
the world um after i came out of drama school
i bought around the world ticket and my plan
was all right i'm gonna go to new zealand i'm
gonna work on lord of the rings and i'm gonna
go to india and they're gonna pick me up as a
bollywood actor none of that actually happened
it was all in my head but you actually did so
so what was working in bollywood like Well, I
did a couple of Bollywood films that used to
come to Thailand, and then I actually went to
Mumbai because Bollywood's from Mumbai. So I
went actually and did some films. And actually,
you know, if you do like a good Bollywood production,
not a cheap, shitty one, they're actually a really
well -produced film. And they actually paid pretty
well as well. So, yeah, I actually love doing
Bollywood because it's so over the top. We know
a lot in these modern films. everything has to
be so realistic. Everything has to be toned down,
like in pre -production rehearsal time. So the
stunt team always want to make great, cool kicks
and everything bigger because it's fun and it
looks nice. But then it always gets toned down
because now it has to be very realistic. Why
would you do this fancy kick if you could just
do a straightforward kick? But in India, it's
the complete opposite. It's hilarious because
you don't just – somebody hits you with the left
hook. You don't just sort of take a reaction
with your head. It's a massive reaction with
the head into a complete spin around the whole
body and then drop to the floor. It's so funny.
And I love everything has to be massive and over
the top. So the kicks, a lot of the stuff is
even done on wire because you can't – not many
people can do it in real life. Yeah. Well, speaking
of that, did you ever have the yearning to go
to Hong Kong? Because that was one of my – younger
dreams too you know seeing um gary daniels some
of these english you know performers end up being
bad guys in jackie chan's films that one day
that was my destiny too i was i was going to
be doing while i work with uh you know the hong
kong team so were you ever drawn to that side
uh no i wasn't actually that that's a little
different because it's well i think it's quite
intense as well i do know quite a few people
that have worked in the hong kong industry and
when it was massive, like in the 90s. And that
is, it's a lot more intense. I think you're really
going to be on your game there. And really cool
that it's time. I think it seems to be making
a bit of a comeback recently, I think. But yeah,
I never had a drawing towards there really. Right.
So then a movie that kind of connects the two
of us is Mad Max. So my friends, Pete Hill, Steve
Dunleavy, I think Damian Bryson. So a lot of
the guys I work with in Japan ended up working
on that production in Namibia. So how did you
find yourself back in Africa to work on that?
Well, so I worked a couple of years in production,
well, in films in Thailand and living in Bangkok.
And then, you know, the city life just got too
much for me. Bangkok is absolutely full on. I
don't know if you've ever been there, but it's
intense. You could live for weeks in Bangkok
and never touch the ground because everything
can be above ground. It's so hot there and you're
always just trying to hang out in shopping centers
and somewhere where there's air con. I just don't
like city life and it's so intense after a while.
Just people, millions and millions of people
and cars and traffic wherever you go. So I just
really craved going back to Cape Town and just,
you know, living there. And I heard there was
a film industry there. I knew a couple of guys
that were stunt people there. So I just gave
them a shout. And then, yeah, I thought, oh,
let me go and try and see if I can work in South
Africa and get a bit of, you know, more natural
lifestyle there. So I went back there in 2011.
I spent a year there. which didn't go that great
because at the time females, it didn't have a
lot of females that used to be in core teams.
So there wasn't very stable sort of income. It
was just every now and again. I ended up running,
somebody asked me to run a boxing gym for them.
So I used to run a boxing gym. And then in 2000
and beginning of 2012 or end of 2011. After being
there a year, I thought, oh, no, you know, the
industry is so much better in Thailand. I think
I'm just going to go back there. So I went back
to Thailand. No, when I was in South Africa,
sorry, I did a casting for Mad Max. And you know
how they had so many postponements. I think they
were postponing for like 13 years in the end.
I just got loads of reasons. But they were supposed
to start in 2011, so they had a casting in South
Africa for some performers. I got the job, but
they kept on delaying. So I thought, oh, no,
this is never going to happen. So I went back
to Thailand and spent about three or four months
there working. And then I got a call and said,
oh, Mad Max is starting in a few weeks or a couple
of weeks or something. So let's get going. So
they were shooting in Namibia, which is just
north of South Africa. So, yeah, I went back
there and stayed in Namibia for like six months.
Brilliant. Now, when you were on the set, obviously
up to this point, you'd been using your martial
arts as your main stunt tool. How did you come
across riding dirt bikes? Well, actually, before
we... I guess I wasn't doing that much Muay Thai.
I was training it, but I've always loved to have
something that I'm so into. So I was so into
Muay Thai, and I guess I craved being really
into something. So in a way, I was looking for
something to really get into. And then when I
did the casting for Mad Max and got that, they
actually said to us, there's not going to be
any female roles in the story. So what they might
do with females is use us as pillions on the
back of motorbikes because we're lighter. So
some girls went out and got motorcycle licenses.
I was like, no, man, it's going to be in the
desert. I was like, let's just stop motocross.
And at the same time, I went and watched a stunt
show, which is not really like human stunts,
but like some performers, it was more sports.
So there was FMX and BMX and jet ski stunts and
all things like that. And I saw the FMX, guys,
and I was like, oh, my God. That's fucking amazing.
I want to do that. So thinking it's pretty much
the same thing, I just started motocross. I said
to my sister, I want to start motocross. She's
like, oh, I know this guy. He rides motocross.
His name's Babs. At the time, he was like 60
years old. And he actually still rides to this
day, and I think he's 66. He's a fucking amazing
dude. So I gave him a shout, and I was like,
I want to start motocross. He's like, oh, come
down. He had this old... YZ125 from 1986. He's
like, give that a go. It's an amazing little
bike. Off I went up and down the dirt path for
a while and then eventually went onto the track
and then started getting into the kit and buying
my own kit. Eventually I wanted my own bike.
Then just got absolutely obsessed with motocross.
I loved it so much. I think that's an area that
people don't understand about the stunt world
is you know when you first go in i know that
the british one i remember having a book like
how to be a british stunt performer and you had
to be like gymnastics level 12 and you know all
these things but now you know you see that the
martial artists do the fight scenes and then
the the x games guys do the guys and girls do
the um you know the motorized stuff and the the
high divers are great at the falls that there's
all this um you know, this, this specialization.
So to be able to be well -rounded is definitely
a goal for all of us. But ultimately, if it comes
to a top stunt, you know, you need to find, you
find your lane because the guy next to you, or
the woman next to you may easily be one of the
top people in the world of that particular, you
know, genre that they're in. Yeah. I mean, there
are, there are quite a lot of specialists now
and that you, that they use. It's great that
coordinators. Normally, I prefer to use stunt
performers because if there's a stunt involved,
the stunt performer has the performance side
of it or knows how to perform. But a lot of the
time, they do use specialists, like specific
motorbike stunts. Sometimes, especially females,
there's not a lot of female stunt performers
who can ride really well, so they might bring
in a TT rider if it's specific road bike stuff
or a lot of the horse stuff is done by specific
horse teams. And they also, you know, some performers,
they're really good trick riders on horses. So
if they can use a stunt performer, but yeah,
they do use a lot of specialists now, which is
good. It's safer. Yeah, well, exactly. Now, speaking
of stunt performer, and I saw the short video
that you and some of the other fellow stunt performers
made about recognition of stunt performers in
the movie industry. And it's an interesting thing
because I've always been very anti. accolade
in anything and even even the oscars for the
actors a perfect example um uh denzel washington
name fell out my head he did cry freedom he did
so many of these incredible performances that
he never won an oscar for i think it was training
day he got one which i don't think was one of
his you know strongest performances by any means
this wasn't a strong script compared to some
of the other ones so it's kind of a you know
a bullshit thing in the first place however You
guys have a very good point where just pure recognition
of the stunt performer. And we've seen a lot
of these people who are the actors claiming they
do their own stunts. And of course, if you're
hanging from a wire three feet above the ground,
then yeah, it's perfectly safe. But they're kind
of negating all the things that you guys do.
So what's your philosophy? Not so much on, oh,
we need to get awards for it, but just being
included in the overall production. I don't know.
I've never been a big driver for it. revved up
about being awarded Oscars. I think it would
never be for stunt performers anyway. It would
be for like an action, maybe stunt coordinator
or maybe second unit director, probably stunt
coordinator more. So it wouldn't ever take away
from like, you know, some people were worried,
would it take away or, you know, show the fact
that the actors aren't doing their own stunts.
I don't think it would do any of that. And although
I'm not a big forceful driver for the Oscars
thing, I just don't understand why we're not
included. To me, all aspects of making a film
should be included, from lighting to directing
to makeup to stunts. All of those departments
take making a film. To make a good film, you
need all of those departments. to be in tip -top
shape and you know stunts work uh with the director
and the producers right from the beginning through
the whole film and a lot of films nowadays you
take away the stunts you don't even have a trailer
so yeah they do need it so i don't understand
why why it's not included but yeah well especially
now because we have social media i mean uh you
know i follow bobby holland who's chris hemsworth
stunt double and they have you know they have
a fitness app together they got all kinds of
things but it's out that now you know that that
fourth wall's kind of being removed so you know
we get to see behind the scenes even the dvds
have all that behind the scenes footage so it
seems a little silly to not now acknowledge that
community when we all are fully aware of who's
truly doing the stunts and and then you know
the the areas where, you know, some of these
actors have got, you know, a great background
in movement, but then it boils down to the insurance.
They're not going to let them do it anyway. Yeah.
But yeah, we've been just going to steer it back
down. Just, just acknowledging it doesn't need
to be an award. And I'm not about that, but,
but yeah, it's a. You guys are a hugely important
part of a cast, especially when it comes to an
action movie. If it's a drama and someone trips
over a cat for two seconds in the movie, obviously
that's not pivotal around stunts. But you bring
in the Marvel movies and all those. That's really
a stunt movie with great actors involved as well.
Yeah. Yeah, it definitely makes sense. I think
it will get included one day. Yeah, I think it
should. All right. Well, speaking of stunts,
obviously with this, you know, we're going to
have to discuss Resident Evil because that's
a very pivotal point in your story, even though
it's definitely not a defining point. So if you
wouldn't mind kind of how you got onto that particular
project and then, you know, that awful, awful
day when you were riding the bike on the bridge.
Well, that sort of happened. I was living and
working in England since 2013. I came over here.
to shoot uh guardians of the galaxy the first
one um and then i met my husband my now husband
um and then so i fell in love with him and just
wanted to stay living here in england it's quite
it's very big industry here in england so i thought
it's a good place to live and you know obviously
stay with dave so in we ended up getting married
in 2015 in may and there was a long time which
is a really shit time because i couldn't I couldn't
work in the UK because I didn't have a working
visa. And I went to South Africa to ride motocross
for like a few months because it was their summer
and it was cold in England. So I was like, I'm
out of here. So I was riding in Cape Town for
like four months from October, November, December
and January. And then I was stuck there without
a visa. I couldn't come back here to work because
of my visa. But anyway, we were getting married
in May, so we got married, and then I think I
lost my passport or something, but there was
a massive delay in my spousal visa, so I couldn't
come back here. And it was a bit of a shitter
because I had booked a job here on the first
Wonder Woman, but I wasn't sure when I could
come back because I wasn't sure when my passport
would come through. So I wasn't actually working
in South Africa. riding motocross there which
I was a male elephant element so that was fine
and then I was while I was waiting for my visa
and waiting to come and do Wonder Woman there
I obviously wasn't sure when the visa would come
through so I was asked to do a Resident Evil
to double for Mila Jovovich and it's not a great
film a bit of a shitter cheap movie but there
was some Really good, fun stunts too, doing a
lot of fun fights and some fun motorbike stuff.
But I love both, so I was like, yeah, that looks
good. And then I talked to Dave, my husband,
for a while, and I don't know what to do because,
you know, I've got Wonder Woman, which is a nice
big film, but I don't know when my V's are going
to come through. Or there's this one I could
just start now, a Resident Evil shit film, but
some really fun stunts. So then I spoke to the
coordinator at the time for Wonder Woman, and
I said to him about my situation. He's like,
no, just do that Resident Evil job, and when
you come back here in December when that finishes,
then I'll just hop on to Wonder Woman. I'll put
somebody else in the place in the meantime. So
I was like, sweet, this is perfect. So, yeah,
I took on Resident Evil, which was not a great
idea, obviously. Yeah, you wanted to know what
was going to happen though. So with the actual
day, originally you had a fight scene planned.
Is that correct? I mean, on the day of the accident,
we're doing this quite a cool fight scene on
top of a moving vehicle, like a big, I don't
know what you call it, kind of like a lorry,
but not very long, like a one -section lorry.
A fight scene on top of that. It was on the move,
so we had to, and it was a very difficult space
to move on. And actually the scene was being
shot the whole of the next week, and the whole
of the next week was very sunny and hot. And
that day, which was a Saturday, which was originally
supposed to be a rehearsal day, but at last minute
they were like, oh no, let's make it a filming
day. So that was the only day and then it was
a break Sunday and then filmed the whole of the
sunny week. On that Saturday, it was actually
poured down with rain the whole of Friday night.
So everything was sopping wet in the morning.
And there was still drizzling and raining a little
on the Saturday. So we were supposed to shoot
the fight scene on top of the moving lorry. But
we couldn't because it would be too slippery.
So you know what producers are like. They don't
want to waste any time because everyone's there
on the payroll. So they're like, ah, what can
we shoot? Obviously not a great production, so
they don't have weather options organized. So
they're just like, can we shoot some motorbike
stuff? Which is pretty fucking stupid because
the motorbike stuff is directly, it's pretty
much, the fight scene happens, and then I jump
onto this motorbike after I've killed the guy.
wheelie the motorbike off the lorry and go onto
the road so it's basically the scene directly
after so it's not like it'll be different weather
it's going to be the same weather so in my head
I was like oh this is fucking stupid because
you can't shoot that because it's the wrong weather
and you're going to see which is why so the two
scenes wouldn't match up when you edit them yeah
but I think you know what they like they just
want to do something because they don't want
to waste their money so Yeah, so they asked me,
is it okay if I do the motorbike stuff, which
is fine. I don't mind riding in the rain. That's
no problem. Yeah, so we decided to do some motorbike
stuff. Right, so the scene that you had shot
up, it was on a railway bridge. Is that right?
There was that scene, the bike scene that we
did. It was a very long road. I would say about
800 meters maybe long. Two parallel roads, tar
roads, a desolate road, so there's nothing on
them. There was some car debris, you know, like
they always do in films, broken down cars on
the side of the roads. But it wasn't a used road.
It was an old highway, I think. It was two parallel
roads and a bridge on each end of it. So we rode
underneath the bridge. It wasn't on top of the
bridge. Oh, okay, gotcha. All right. So then
as you are riding towards the film truck, there's
a boom with a camera and it's supposed to basically
go up and over as you go past. Yeah. All right.
So my question, because I've heard, obviously,
you know, I've seen the articles and everything,
but I don't really have seen anything describing
this. What the hell went wrong? Before we talk
about what happened to you, why didn't that boom
even raise up in the first place? Well, there's
loads of things that happened on the day where
production went wrong, you know, not organized
and risk assessments and things like that. But
besides all that, like what directly happened
was basically, as you said, I was to ride in
a straight line. I had no helmet on, riding a
straight line along the road and in the opposite
direction. came the action vehicles car with
a crane to the side of it at the time and a camera
on the end of that crane. The camera is supposed
to start scooping along the floor. And then as
it comes close to me, it's supposed to lift up
and over the top of my head. But the guy who
owns the action vehicles company and the guy...
This is a guy that was responsible for lifting
the crane. Him and the driver basically just
fucked up. Went completely freestyle and just
didn't lift the boom in time and lifted it too
late and smashed it into my head and top of my
shoulder. And this was a cumulative speed opposing
of over 100 kilometers an hour? Yeah, which is
quite scary if you think about it. I have no
helmet on. I was riding at about 70 kilometers
an hour, and they were opposing at 50 kilometers
an hour. So that's like in conjunction 120 kilometers
an hour with no helmet, just something going
straight into my head. So it's fucking amazing
that I'm still alive, really. Yeah, because as
we know in basic physics, that would be the same
as you driving into a bridge at 80 miles an hour,
whatever it ends up being through our system.
to a dead stop it's crazy if you think about
it that way yeah no it is so um yeah if you wouldn't
mind just kind of walk us through you know what
you remember of that and then and then obviously
the the resulting injuries from that horrendous
impact i i don't remember apparently i was conscious
and trying to get up But I must have just, you
know, like my left -hand side of my face was
totally degloved, which means pulled back so
you could see my teeth, through my teeth, and
loads and loads of injuries. I was apparently
still trying to get up and a little bit conscious.
I don't remember that. I do remember literally
one second of being put into the ambulance and
seeing the roof of the car. I didn't know what
was happening, but I remember that. And then,
yeah, I just. And then I had loads and loads
of horrific nightmares in the coma, which is
literally like going to hell. And then I woke
up. And then to see my family's and my husband's
face, which was about three weeks, almost three
weeks later. That's crazy. Absolutely. It's amazing
that you were even up and coming from the paramedic
background, you know, the impact that you had,
you know, like you said, it should have killed
you. And obviously, you know, what you're left
with physically is not, you know, a complete
fully formed, you know, functional body again.
But, you know, the fact that you didn't die right
there on an impact is, I mean, really defies
all... you know, biomechanics and physiology,
really. Yeah. Well, the surgeons kept saying
that if I wasn't, because I always had a very
strong back and my shoulders, you know, the back
part of it, obviously from loads and loads of
Muay Thai over the years. And he said that if
I didn't have such a strong back, my whole shoulder
would have ripped off completely on the site.
So I would have had no shoulder or anything.
Because my shoulder blade was shattered. He said
the pressure that is needed to shatter a shoulder
blade when you get hit from the front of the
shoulder is very, very rare because it's got
that much. It's so strong. But basically all
my shoulder muscles were strong enough to hold
it all together. So although it shattered, it
still was still held together. and in a completely
wrong way, which we sorted out later. I've always
been really into nutrition and peak shape, so
I think that helped really a lot. yeah i'm sure
i've had several people on here that have been
through all kinds of stuff from you know a mountain
bike accident where the saddle went right into
their femoral artery branch and and all kinds
of people and again each one of those they were
told that they were saved because of that because
of their physical condition if they'd been deconditioned
they would have bled out right there and then
yeah yeah all right so then um you know a big
part of obviously your post incident injury was
that one arm. So I know it was completely decimated.
I know there were parts of your arm they didn't
even find, but it was still intact. So what was
that journey for you from hoping that you were
going to be able to rehab that arm to ultimately
losing it? Well, in the beginning, like when
I was still in a coma, they said to my husband
and family, like her arm, everything actually
on my left hand side. including my neck, is paralyzed
and there's no way it's impossible for it to
ever get better. It will never get movements
again. Because all the nerves that feed my left
-hand side, besides my top left -hand side, all
those nerves were pulled out of my spinal cord
by the root. There's no way that they can put
them back in or there's no way that they can
grow back in. And so they were told still when
I was in coma that it's not possible for it to
get better. But they didn't, I guess nobody had
the courage to tell me that. And my husband was
so determined that we could find somebody somewhere
in America or the UK or anywhere in the world.
Like he was just looking and speaking to the
top surgeons to hopefully do something. But eventually.
So I guess there was little time where there
was little hope, and eventually we figured out
that there's literally nothing you can do. Because
my injuries are so complex, there's so many injuries,
and they're so extensive that there's just literally
nothing you can do. And anyway, at the same time,
when I came out of a coma and eventually moved
into a normal ward, I had to learn to walk again,
eventually learn to walk again, and I could just
really feel the weight of my dead arm because
you've got the whole of your top left -hand side
completely, you know, dead weight. And my god,
my arm, when I eventually chopped it off, it
was like four kilograms if it took off. You took
four kilograms of dead weight hanging on my neck,
my shoulder and my neck, which is also paralyzed.
I just could not take it. And that was really
holding me back. And eventually when I could
go home and try and sort of get more normal life
back together, like the thing that was really
holding me back was the weight of my arm. There
was no way that my arm would ever work again.
And the arm completely atrophies. There's nothing
left. It was just literally bone and skin covering
it. And then some parts of it, as you said, they
were never found. So like missing fingers, which
looked really weird. And some of them were so
mutilated, they were curled over and they could
never go straight. It just looked like a big
claw. And then, yeah, parts of the forearm, like
nine centimeters of the forearm bone was missing.
So they had to replace that with a piece of cement.
And they said, yeah, to replace it, they have
to take one of your lower leg bones, entire bone,
I don't know which one, the entire bone to replace
that piece. I was like, no, man, this arm's never
going to work. It's holding me back. I could
not even stand up for like a minute because of
the weight on my neck, hanging on my neck. So
I was like, I just want to take the arm off.
It's not going to do anything. It just looks
like a big dead claw. So yeah, I insisted that
I wanted to take the arm off and just move on
with my life. But that actually took quite a
while. It took about six months. I was back in
the UK at the time. They really wanted to make
sure that, obviously, you can't reverse it. If
you take your arm off, they can't put it back
on. They really wanted to make sure that that
is the right decision that you're positive on.
I had to go for psychological obsession with
the specific amputation guy, make sure that I
was in the right headspace to do it. Then about
six months later, they were like, cool, let's
do it. I went and got the chop. That was actually
the best day since the accident when I took my
arm off. It's so strange to hear that, but the
way you describe it makes perfect sense. If that's
not functioning as your arm anymore, then it
is dead weight and it's now hindering you. But
what a challenging decision to make to remove
something that you've had obviously since you
were born. And for that to ultimately be the
beginning of moving forward is a very powerful
moment. Yeah, I said what I was going to do and
so many people were like, no, don't chop your
arm off. They just don't understand. But for
me, the biggest problem with the accident was
the change of life that I had to have. From having
a very active, outdoor, full life. to not hardly
being able to stand up at the time or do anything.
That was so difficult for me, more than the change
of my body or a possible loss of an arm. So that's
what I really wanted to give back was some kind
of happiness and some kind of life where I could
move or stand up and at least make myself something
to eat or anything. I had to have people help
me all the time. I could never be left alone.
So I just said, oh, you know, I weighed it up
and I definitely just wanted to get rid of it.
Yeah. Well, what's interesting as well, looking
at you from the outside, looking in is, oh, there's
Olivia. She lost an arm in an accident. But then
when you see the x -rays and you talk about the
internal trauma on the spine and the nerves,
I mean, your spine. looks like an s shape you
know completely distorted so so there's so many
injuries that are hidden by your body that you're
dealing with as well is that something that you
struggle with is you know people think oh you
know that's your only limiting factor whereas
your internal battle is obviously all these other
things that are going on as well yeah you know
they're like having one arm for me is seriously
not a problem it doesn't it wouldn't if i had
If I had a normal, strong body, there was no
problems. I had one arm. It wouldn't bother me
whatsoever. I'd still be doing stunts. I'd still
be doing all the other things that I love to
do. The thing that really holds me back and is
the biggest, you know, pain in my life is the
paralysis. And the paralysis on the core and
the neck especially cause the spine to move in
so many directions. So it's, you know, bent and
all sort of uncomfortable. And paralysis itself
is so painful. I always thought if you see somebody,
you know, when I never knew anything about it,
I'd see someone in a wheelchair and I would think
that their whole body was numb and heavy. But
it's so painful. It's constant, constant, without
a second's break, pain. And that's hard to live
with. And also, you know, the constant spasming.
twisting of the of the body is also very hard
to live with so as you said you you were this
you know able -bodied stunt performer using their
body for their profession you have this horrendous
accident and you find yourself now what has been
your self -talk how have you how have you been
so resilient and and and fought your way back
to where you know we're watching videos of you
doing martial arts again well As I said, I love
sports and I love digging my heels and really
being like getting into something 100%. So obviously
Muay Thai is not a great option for me now because
it's quite a hard sport. Well, martial arts and
in fighting I had to change stance because there's
nothing on my left hand side to protect myself.
So I had to change to right foot forward stance.
to southpaw which is a massive change anyway
um so there's a guy that i used to train with
actually to to get better at just sort of different
kicks when i was doing stunts and he he's got
a gym just down the road which is perfect for
me he's an amazing teacher um so yeah i spoke
to him and he was like yeah let's do something
so and he does kickboxing which is quite a very
different style to muay thai but it's absolutely
perfect for me now So I went down and did that
and just got into it. And the good thing about
kickboxing is it has a belt system. So Muay Thai,
you don't have any belt system. You just get
in the ring and you fight and you train for your
fight. And then you can get championships. But
in kickboxing, you have belts. You do have tournaments
as well, but you can work on yourself on white
belt. In our school, there's eight belts up until
a black belt. And so that gives me nice little
goals to work for, which is cool. So at the moment,
I've worked myself up to purple belts. I've only
got brown belts and then black belts. Very nice.
You know, watching the footage of you training,
it reminded me, have you ever heard of the guy
Bill Superfoot Wallace from back in the day?
no so i think he did a couple of uh you know
like jack chan style movies as well i think he
was in a couple of his but he i think he was
a judo player before and got thrown and completely
messed up one side of his body so he ended up
i think it was right side forward he could only
kick with his right leg and then would use his
right arm And he ended up being a world champion
kickboxer. And he just had, I think it was the
side kick, the round kick, the hook kick, and
then, you know, like jab, cross, uppercut with
his hands as well. So it reminded me a lot of
that watching you train. I mean, I don't know.
I can't even remember his name, but I saw there's
actually a documentary on Netflix. It's a black
guy. I think he's from America, I think. And
he does wrestling. Have you seen him? He's got
no legs. Yes. Yeah. Big Z. Yeah. Yeah, that's
his name. It's incredible. Yeah, actually, he's
one of the people I'll probably try and get to
one day on here. But yeah, I mean, it's not even
like, you know, below groin. I mean, he stops
kind of at the belly button almost, doesn't he?
Yeah, I think he looks like he's got no hips,
but he has hips and just literally no legs. Yeah,
yeah, it's amazing. So that's it. So I just want
to ask you as well, from the physical side specifically,
you know, there's no good time for this to happen
to you, to your own personal journey. However...
In the sports exercise community, this is a great,
great time for adaptive athletes. I think sadly,
that's probably a lot to do with so many of the
IED, you know, the patients that we've had come
back from the Middle East. Did you... when you
actually got hurt fine there was there were there
were some great resources because of that to
to work around for example i think i saw the
the picture of you doing the one -armed um jump
rope that you see a lot in the games now oh yeah
that actually my husband found on social media
on instagram so there's a few great one -armed
people to follow on instagram that he followed
and there's this one guy i don't actually know
his name but um He's great in that rope. He does
double jumps. He's just double jumping the whole
time. It's incredible. My husband contacted him
and said, where did you get that cool rope from?
First, we made a DIY one, which was pretty sketchy.
The pole that we got from the shop and then put
a tie jump rope onto it. Then he got one from
the guy in the States. And so there is a lot
of that opening up. And actually, like the weird
thing is I've started modeling again, believe
it or not. No, that's brilliant. That whole industry
has really opened up. A lot of the, you know,
even I don't really go into shops that much,
but I do a lot of online shopping, even clothes.
So you look at a lot of these websites now, it's
all like really trying to open themselves up.
There's a lot of, you know, slim people and overweight
people, people with skin problems. Oh, what do
people when they've, is it albinism? Oh yeah,
the albinos. Yes, albinos, sorry. Yeah, people
and lots of people with, you know, limb differences.
And we see a lot of that nowadays. So that's
worked out pretty well for me. So I've done a
little bit of modeling and the other day I did
a bit of acting. And what was that in? That was
just for a TV commercial for the UK, for the
census for the UK. I had to do a one -armed pull
-up. Brilliant. Like I said, I've had so many
different people on here that have lost limbs
from a variety of reasons. It reminded me of
one guy, Mitch Dreyer, who was actually my very
first guest on this podcast. He was a fireman
where a building collapsed on him. and he got
burnt so horrendously, he lost one arm. And I
met him at an Ido Portal workshop, and he was
one of the only people in the room that could
do just what you said, a one -arm pull -up. So,
you know, it's funny. People look at a person
and be like, oh, they've got a disability. No,
they've just found a way to get even stronger
with what they've got left. Yeah, yeah, that's
true. Right. Well, then, speaking of the healing,
I know, I mean, obviously, this mental journey
has been very tough for you. An area that I'm
actually about to talk about even in more depth
in a few weeks on this show is equine therapy.
So you've kind of traded out the motorbike for
the horse. So I'd love to hear about your journey
into that. Well, actually, I work a little bit.
I just literally help somebody out with some
equine therapy. It's every Monday, but sometimes
only once a month. I'm at the horse school, horse
riding school that I ride at. And they do equine
therapy with people with dementia and sometimes
just old people and sometimes severely handicapped
people. And we just get them to come over and
we give them proper British stuff like tea and
cake or cookies and sometimes scones. And, yeah,
then we bring out some horses, you know, that
are really good with people. And some of them
are really... They just want to look them fast
and really love to touch them and rub them on
the noses. Some of them even that can walk, they'll
sort of walk them around. It's just such a nice
day for them to get out and do something different,
be outside and see the horses. They all love
telling the story of 1940 when they used to ride
horses. And some of them bring these amazing
photographs when they're still in side saddle
and long dresses. So funny. Amazing. Yeah, when
you see that, you know, the healing power of
dogs, of horses, and even some people that dive,
they're able to swim with mammals in the ocean.
But there is such a powerful connection between,
you know, a healing animal and a person who's
looking to be healed. Yeah, I've always loved
animals, animals of any type, except insects.
I don't like insects. If you grew up in Africa,
there's probably some pretty hateful insects
there. They're really cool. I've got two Maine
Coon cats and I love them so much. They give
me so much joy in every day. It's not a day that
don't make me really laugh out loud. It's cool.
Well, with the horses, have you seen a documentary
called Buck? B -U -C -K. I've either seen it
or I've seen the trailer, but I've definitely
seen something about it. Okay. Yeah, so it's
about basically one of the, I mean, it's not
just one guy, but one of the horse whisperers.
And his name is Buck Branaman. And when he was
very young, he was in a very abusive household.
His father made him and his brother be like performing
cowboys that were on TV doing trick lasso work.
And, you know, he ended up getting away from
his father and becoming this incredible horseman.
And that horse, you know, relationship with the
horse basically was his healing. And then now
he's this incredible person that's showing these
riders, these horse owners that, you know, a
lot of the problems they're having with their
horses because of the way they're... treating
the horse or the way they're they're dealing
with their own anger um and so he's i'm actually
going to georgia next month to sit down with
him so that's going to be a fascinating thing
because i mean not only did he heal but he ended
up being a teacher for all these other people
as well that's cool yeah i'm actually going doing
a i was supposed to do a course in um june but
then i then i ended up having to have an operation
which ended up postponing at last minute So I
postponed the course as well, but the course
is now opening in September. And that's a course
on natural horsemanship, which I'm sure the guy
knows or understands or does himself. And that's
just a really natural way of either healing horses
that have problems or just training horses. It's
really beautiful. It's amazing. I love it. I'm
looking forward to them. Yeah, that sounds exactly
what it is. And are you able to ride yourself?
Because it seems like it would be a lot easier
to ride a well -trained horse than trying to
navigate a dirt bike. Yeah, definitely. Because
they have their own minds and their own moods.
You know what horses are like. It's not just
throttle on or throttle off. But I love it. Yeah,
I definitely ride twice a week. And I love it
every time. These 25 horses we ride, we pretty
much ride a different horse every time. And every
time you climb even on the same horse, it's different.
You've got to feel how they are on that day,
what mood they're on, depending on the weather,
what's going on around them. So many things can
make it different. But I absolutely love it.
I love the personalities and the characters of
each horse. Brilliant. All right, well, I want
to transition to some closing questions to be
mindful of your time. But the first thing that
I normally ask about people, recommend a book,
but I know that you're in the process of writing
a biography. Is that right? Well, I'm not writing
one because I couldn't write anything. There's
a writer, she's from New York, her name is Shannon,
Shannon Nixon. She approached me some while ago.
She actually, I don't know where she was. about
me from but she she actually trains Muay Thai
she loves it she had one fight as well and she
she asked me if she could she was interested
in writing a biography on me so I was like yeah
that sounds amazing so we've been working together
I don't know how long now maybe two years I think
or a year I don't know but uh we just been we
just spent hours talking um over Skype and she's
obviously learned pretty much my entire life
in the last couple of years. So she's written
the book. I don't know when it's coming out quite
yet. It is almost ready. There's just a few things,
legal stuff that we're waiting on because we
want to obviously include all the details of
the accidents and stuff. So it just depends on,
we've got to wait for a few legal things so that
we're allowed to incorporate all of the details.
Brilliant. Well, yeah, let me know as soon as
it does and I'll definitely post it about it
here. And I'm sure people listening and wondering
as well. I know after the accident, you know,
there was the question of, you know, who made
the mistakes and at least some sort of compensation.
Have you able to secure that yet or is that still
in the air? That's a really dark, dirty, disgraceful
situation. All those details will be in the book.
He'd be also busy shooting a documentary. Also
another guy from the States, he approached me.
I shot actually another documentary with him
about stunts. And then he wanted to do a story
on just myself. So we've been doing that. And
he's also in post -production at the moment.
So those will probably come out more or less
the same time, I think. Brilliant. Well, yeah,
let me know and I will definitely make sure that
the audience knows about those as well. All right.
So then, as I said, so is there a book that someone
else has written that you love to recommend?
It can be about what we talked about today or
something completely different. Well, I read
a lot of books, but I generally, pretty much
all the time, I only read Buddhist books. So
I don't know if that would, I recommend those
to the general public. Yeah, no, absolutely.
All right. And then what about a film? Do you
have a favorite film? Well, I think one of my
favorites is still Seven Years in Tibet because
I love it, although it's old now. I don't know.
I just love Game of Thrones. That's it for me.
I absolutely love Game of Thrones. I recommend
anybody to watch that. It's got nothing to do
with what we talked about, but it is good. Yeah,
no, it seems like most people have seen it. I'm
one of the few that haven't, but we're going
to binge on it at one point. Pay for the HBO.
It's so good. All right, what about a documentary?
Do you have a documentary that you love? Hmm.
Don't know. I'm actually not, you know, it's
a bit weird, but I'm not actually that into documentaries.
Sometimes I do. My husband loves documentaries,
but I don't like watch them that much because
most documentaries that you watch are made to
sort of, they're intended to. invokes some sort
of feeling, you know, of you. And a lot of them
is like about a sad situation or a crazy situation.
So it invokes a lot of feelings of you thinking,
oh, what the fuck? Well, that's crazy. You know?
Yeah. I tend to stick away from that. I just
like good old films where it's about a story
that's nothing like real life and you feel good
at the end. All right. Well, we did talk about
Big Z's documentary, so I can pop that into the
rest of it. Brilliant. All right, so the next
question, is there a person that you would recommend
to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to
the first responders and military of the world?
And again, it doesn't have to be specific to
that community. It can be anyone, stunt world,
anyone. No, don't know. Quite a cool stunt performer
if you're interested in female stunt performers.
There's a girl, she's from the States, Jessie
Graff. Do you know her? No, I don't. She's a
stunt performer, a good stunt performer, and
she's also really well -known for being a ninja
warrior. I think she won last year. Oh, okay.
Brilliant. That's so cool, yeah. She looks like
I've never met her. She looks like a really nice
girl and super fit. I love watching your Instagram
stuff because her fitness is just on another
level. It's amazing. Yeah, that is. Absolutely.
All right, well, I have to look her up. Thank
you. All right, so the very last thing before
we talk about where people can find you online,
what do you do to decompress? Well, I normally
meditate every morning for about half an hour,
45 minutes, an hour, depending on how I'm feeling.
And that sort of gives me a good start for the
day and just sort of calm my mind down and focus
on what's going on inside of me. I always love
to do sports, especially horse riding, to decompress
in any way. If ever I'm stressed and I know I've
got a horse riding session, I relax because I
know that I feel better afterwards. Yeah, and
sometimes even watching films is good. If you've
got something you can't stop thinking about or
stressed about, sometimes it's just good to watch
a film and you completely don't think about it.
And by the end of it, you know, you're not so
stressed about it. Yeah, absolutely. I agree.
All right, so then the very last question then,
if people want to... find out about you online
or on social media, where are the best places
to go? Well, I'm not on Facebook. I'm actually
not a huge social media fan. I'm a little old
school. I think I just want to move to a farm
and completely go off the internet and raise
some sheep and some horses. I'm still on Instagram.
My name's Olivia the Bandit because I'm a one
-armed bandit. Yeah, and that's about it really.
It's just Instagram. And is it Olivia biography
is the one that's attached to the book? Is that
right? Yeah, that's it. Olivia biography. All
right. Well, I just want to say thank you so
much. You've been so generous with your time.
And, you know, I know like a lot of people I
have on here, I know it's not easy to relive
and recount, you know, some of the more challenging
parts of your story. But it's just so amazing
to watch you grow every day physically, you know,
and I'm sure mentally as well from an injury
that, you know, I think would have killed many
people. And then, you know, psychologically would
have, you know, stopped them from growing as
well. So I just really, really appreciate you
taking the time. Thank you.