WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.960 This episode is brought to you by Thorne, and 00:00:01.960 --> 00:00:03.919 I have some incredible news for any of you that 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:06.459 are in the military, first responder, or medical 00:00:06.459 --> 00:00:09.660 professions. In an effort to give back, Thorne 00:00:09.660 --> 00:00:14.919 is now offering you an ongoing 35 % off each 00:00:14.919 --> 00:00:17.859 and every one of your purchases of their incredible 00:00:17.859 --> 00:00:20.719 nutritional solutions. Now Thorne is the official 00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:25.579 supplement of CrossFit, the UFC, the Mayo Clinic, 00:00:25.859 --> 00:00:29.199 the Human Performance Project, and multiple special 00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:32.340 operations organizations. I myself have used 00:00:32.340 --> 00:00:34.500 them for several years, and that is why I brought 00:00:34.500 --> 00:00:37.380 them on as a sponsor. 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And 5 .11 is offering you guys, the 00:01:54.280 --> 00:01:56.439 audience of the Behind the Shield podcast, a 00:01:56.439 --> 00:01:58.959 discount on every purchase you make with them. 00:01:59.459 --> 00:02:01.500 Before we get to that code, I want to highlight 00:02:01.500 --> 00:02:03.439 a couple of products that, again, I personally 00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:07.340 use today. One of the most impressive products 00:02:07.340 --> 00:02:10.759 they just released is their Rush Backpack 2 .0. 00:02:11.180 --> 00:02:12.919 Now, for many of you, whether you're going to 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:14.560 the fire station, the police station, whether 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:16.539 you're traveling with your family, whether you're 00:02:16.539 --> 00:02:19.379 taking training courses, we have to fly, we have 00:02:19.379 --> 00:02:21.949 to drive, we have to take trains. And I have 00:02:21.949 --> 00:02:25.490 to say, I own multiple backpacks, many of 5 .11's 00:02:25.490 --> 00:02:27.729 different ones. But as far as a day pack, this 00:02:27.729 --> 00:02:30.469 one was the most impressive. There are so many 00:02:30.469 --> 00:02:32.729 different compartments. The way it sits on your 00:02:32.729 --> 00:02:35.129 back is incredibly comfortable. If you are a 00:02:35.129 --> 00:02:37.629 concealed carry person, there's also a spot for 00:02:37.629 --> 00:02:40.590 a weapon. So they've thought of multiple, multiple 00:02:40.590 --> 00:02:42.750 things that a man or woman would have to do on 00:02:42.750 --> 00:02:45.969 a daily basis. That is in addition to all of 00:02:45.969 --> 00:02:48.680 the products that I talk about a lot. Their uniforms 00:02:48.680 --> 00:02:52.520 fit for men or fit for women in the first responder 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:55.199 professions. The footwear that they offer, whether 00:02:55.199 --> 00:02:57.599 it's the Norris sneaker or the Atlas system that 00:02:57.599 --> 00:03:00.259 is designed for foot health and therefore knees 00:03:00.259 --> 00:03:03.580 and back and hips and shoulders and neck. As 00:03:03.580 --> 00:03:05.419 a civilian, I live in a lot of their clothes 00:03:05.419 --> 00:03:07.419 as well. Their jeans stretch. You can actually 00:03:07.419 --> 00:03:09.900 squat down in them. We live in Florida here, 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:11.960 so I wear a lot of their shorts, which again, 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:13.939 very, very lightweight material. You can get 00:03:13.939 --> 00:03:16.759 it wet and it will dry almost immediately. And 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:18.539 then moving to the fitness and tactical space, 00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:21.599 I used to have just a regular weight vest. Recently, 00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:24.039 I switched to a 511 vest and actually bought 00:03:24.039 --> 00:03:26.780 ballistic plates as well. My thinking was simply, 00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:28.659 if I'm going to have a vest, why not have one 00:03:28.659 --> 00:03:30.699 that protects me as well? And that tack vest 00:03:30.699 --> 00:03:32.719 is trusted by law enforcement all around the 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:34.939 country. So I mentioned they were going to offer 00:03:34.939 --> 00:03:38.379 you a discount code. So if you go to 511tactical 00:03:38.379 --> 00:03:41.979 .com and enter the code SHIELD15, S -H -I -E 00:03:41.979 --> 00:03:45.900 -L -D -1 -5, you will get 15 % off, not just 00:03:45.900 --> 00:03:48.180 that one purchase, but every time you visit their 00:03:48.180 --> 00:03:50.699 store. And if you want to learn more about 5 00:03:50.699 --> 00:03:53.240 .11, their mission, their products, then listen 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:56.319 to episode 338 of the Behind the Shield podcast 00:03:56.319 --> 00:04:00.439 with the CEO and founder, Francisco Morales. 00:04:01.580 --> 00:04:03.500 Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As 00:04:03.500 --> 00:04:05.280 always, my name is James Geering, and this week 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:07.300 is my absolute honor to welcome on the show, 00:04:07.479 --> 00:04:11.039 Marcus Capone. Now, for those of you who've listened 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:13.319 to multiple episodes, you have probably heard 00:04:13.319 --> 00:04:15.960 at least one Navy SEAL talking about the incredible 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:18.920 success they had with Ibogaine for their TBIs 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:22.379 and PTSD. Well, the man behind the nonprofit 00:04:22.379 --> 00:04:25.319 vets that sent many of these sailors through 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:28.779 this program is Marcus Capone. So in this incredible 00:04:28.779 --> 00:04:31.399 conversation, we discuss a host of topics from 00:04:31.399 --> 00:04:34.199 his own journey into the military, ascending 00:04:34.199 --> 00:04:37.180 to the tier one level, his own mental health 00:04:37.180 --> 00:04:40.810 struggle. finding psychedelics, the healing power 00:04:40.810 --> 00:04:44.269 of Ibogaine, and so much more. Before we get 00:04:44.269 --> 00:04:46.389 to this incredible conversation, as I say every 00:04:46.389 --> 00:04:48.709 single week, please just take a moment, go to 00:04:48.709 --> 00:04:50.949 whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe 00:04:50.949 --> 00:04:54.250 to the show, leave feedback, and leave a rating. 00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:57.779 Every five -star rating truly does elevate this 00:04:57.779 --> 00:05:00.240 podcast, making it easier for others to find. 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:04.060 And this is a free library for you, Planet Earth. 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:07.519 So all I ask in return is that you help share 00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:10.660 these incredible men and women's stories so I 00:05:10.660 --> 00:05:13.040 can get them to every single person who needs 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:16.300 to hear them. So with that being said, I introduce 00:05:16.300 --> 00:05:38.889 to you Marcus Capone. Enjoy. All right. Well, 00:05:38.949 --> 00:05:41.569 Marcus, I want to say thank you so much for coming 00:05:41.569 --> 00:05:43.529 on the show. And I also want to say thank you 00:05:43.529 --> 00:05:46.269 to Ryan Parrott for connecting us. And yeah, 00:05:46.329 --> 00:05:48.910 so welcome to the podcast today. Yeah, thank 00:05:48.910 --> 00:05:51.050 you so much, Ryan. Thank you if you're out there. 00:05:52.170 --> 00:05:54.310 And James, thanks for having me. I'm excited 00:05:54.310 --> 00:05:57.569 to be here and humbled and always grateful for 00:05:57.569 --> 00:06:00.750 having good friends. And yeah, this is going 00:06:00.750 --> 00:06:03.069 to be great. So thank you. No, thank you. And 00:06:03.069 --> 00:06:05.730 I will get into why, but obviously many of the 00:06:05.730 --> 00:06:09.629 CEOs have had on the show. You and the organization 00:06:09.629 --> 00:06:12.069 that you've created with Amber has helped so 00:06:12.069 --> 00:06:14.410 many lives. So I'm really, really excited to 00:06:14.410 --> 00:06:16.829 kind of go down that path with you as not only 00:06:16.829 --> 00:06:20.470 your personal experience, but again, how after 00:06:20.470 --> 00:06:22.509 leaving a life of service, you found another 00:06:22.509 --> 00:06:24.430 way to continue that service. I think it's important. 00:06:24.970 --> 00:06:27.730 So where on planet Earth roughly are we finding 00:06:27.730 --> 00:06:33.009 you today? So today I am in the lovely city of 00:06:33.009 --> 00:06:36.050 Coronado, California. So it's a little peninsula. 00:06:37.910 --> 00:06:43.009 That sticks out, I guess, off of the city of 00:06:43.009 --> 00:06:45.610 San Diego. And there's a bridge. You fly into 00:06:45.610 --> 00:06:48.230 the international airport. And within, I don't 00:06:48.230 --> 00:06:50.569 know, 13 minutes, you're in Coronado. And half 00:06:50.569 --> 00:06:52.949 the base is Naval Air Station. And the other 00:06:52.949 --> 00:06:57.569 half is a beautiful city. And it's pretty wonderful 00:06:57.569 --> 00:06:59.490 here. And what a lot of people don't know is 00:06:59.490 --> 00:07:03.649 that this is where SEAL training, BUDS, takes 00:07:03.649 --> 00:07:06.930 place, right? Literally. five minutes from my 00:07:06.930 --> 00:07:10.990 house. And yeah, I don't think most of the, most 00:07:10.990 --> 00:07:13.529 of the world knows that it's public knowledge, 00:07:13.589 --> 00:07:17.550 but it's pretty wild that individuals stay at 00:07:17.550 --> 00:07:20.970 the hotel Del Coronado and they see these freakishly 00:07:20.970 --> 00:07:22.889 looking individuals that are, you know, running 00:07:22.889 --> 00:07:24.790 down the beach with boats on their heads or doing 00:07:24.790 --> 00:07:27.629 a swim out in the ocean. So it's pretty cool. 00:07:27.769 --> 00:07:29.509 And we just, and we just love it here. It's got, 00:07:29.509 --> 00:07:33.649 it's a beach is close. The neighborhood's great. 00:07:34.129 --> 00:07:36.709 You can kind of hop in a golf cart and go anywhere 00:07:36.709 --> 00:07:39.550 or take a walk and be at Starbucks in five minutes. 00:07:39.689 --> 00:07:43.910 So what's not to love except for some steep taxes 00:07:43.910 --> 00:07:47.310 here in the state. They call it the sunshine 00:07:47.310 --> 00:07:50.069 tax. At least that's what I tell myself after 00:07:50.069 --> 00:07:54.069 leaving Texas and coming back out here. Yeah, 00:07:54.110 --> 00:07:55.949 they're pretty good in Florida. They don't have 00:07:55.949 --> 00:07:57.810 quite as many taxes and we still have the sunshine. 00:07:57.910 --> 00:07:59.629 But I think the humidity takes away from it. 00:07:59.689 --> 00:08:03.279 So we pay tax in humidity, I think. That's right. 00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:07.439 And a few hours from the mountains and a beautiful 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:10.379 Pacific Ocean. It's all good. I can't complain. 00:08:11.300 --> 00:08:15.259 I drove to Anaheim because that's where I used 00:08:15.259 --> 00:08:18.160 to work, Anaheim Fire, from San Diego a few years 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:21.300 ago now on a visit. And when I was going up PCH, 00:08:21.639 --> 00:08:24.300 there was some sort of operation going on. It 00:08:24.300 --> 00:08:27.060 was amazing. So I pulled over and stood there 00:08:27.060 --> 00:08:31.379 and there were gunships. Every sort of craft, 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:34.759 aquatic and aviation, was taking part in some 00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:36.820 obviously massive multi -company organization, 00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:40.440 but it was absolutely incredible to watch. Yeah, 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:42.399 that's pretty cool. James, where was that exactly? 00:08:43.820 --> 00:08:48.519 I want to say, if I'm not totally screwing it 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:52.240 up, probably about 30 minutes north of San Diego, 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:55.240 if I've got that right. so and this would have 00:08:55.240 --> 00:08:57.080 been several years ago now but um yeah i mean 00:08:57.080 --> 00:08:58.700 obviously it's a known place because i mean there 00:08:58.700 --> 00:09:00.700 was a kind of pull over spot and a whole bunch 00:09:00.700 --> 00:09:02.940 of other people were watching too but yeah pretty 00:09:02.940 --> 00:09:04.460 phenomenal and not often you get to go to the 00:09:04.460 --> 00:09:06.820 beach and watch a gigantic military operation 00:09:06.820 --> 00:09:09.879 practicing right in front of you yeah that's 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:11.820 right i'm wondering if it is up near camp pendleton 00:09:11.820 --> 00:09:15.320 uh marine corps base that's i don't know i'd 00:09:15.320 --> 00:09:17.720 say probably 45 minutes north of san diego and 00:09:17.720 --> 00:09:20.039 then you have to drive probably about 20 minutes 00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:23.080 on the PCH to get past it. And then you're in 00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:25.440 San Clemente and there's a lot of activity that 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:28.100 happens there. They have, I forgot the name of 00:09:28.100 --> 00:09:32.159 the craft or the assault crafts there. And they 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:35.419 do a bunch of, you know, rotary, rotary wing 00:09:35.419 --> 00:09:39.279 work, you know, both right across the PCH and 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:42.379 then hop back over to the main base at Camp Pendleton. 00:09:42.460 --> 00:09:44.580 And so it's pretty cool. Every time you drive 00:09:44.580 --> 00:09:46.690 by there, you see something. fun going on i think 00:09:46.690 --> 00:09:48.570 it was now you say that i'm thinking of coronado 00:09:48.570 --> 00:09:50.110 but yeah it was pendleton probably that i was 00:09:50.110 --> 00:09:53.549 closer to so yeah absolutely all right well then 00:09:53.549 --> 00:09:56.590 so before we even get to your timeline then you 00:09:56.590 --> 00:09:58.669 know the west coast seals obviously coronado 00:09:58.669 --> 00:10:01.210 is kind of the base for them is it something 00:10:01.210 --> 00:10:03.570 that you just never moved away or have you kind 00:10:03.570 --> 00:10:05.409 of moved away and then moved back as a base again 00:10:05.409 --> 00:10:10.789 now yeah we um i I was medically retired actually 00:10:10.789 --> 00:10:15.389 in 2013. And I, we moved up to LA, we moved up 00:10:15.389 --> 00:10:18.710 to Calabasas for a year. I got a really, really 00:10:18.710 --> 00:10:23.110 good position at Morgan Stanley private bank. 00:10:23.210 --> 00:10:26.649 And I thought that I wanted to do that for the 00:10:26.649 --> 00:10:30.389 rest of my life. That lasted about a year, but 00:10:30.389 --> 00:10:34.250 it was a great step off and to the private sector. 00:10:34.830 --> 00:10:40.470 And after about a year, I found my way at a private 00:10:40.470 --> 00:10:43.110 equity firm out of New York City, Fortress Investment 00:10:43.110 --> 00:10:47.090 Group. And I started to commute from LAX to the 00:10:47.090 --> 00:10:49.909 East Coast. And I only did that for a few months. 00:10:49.950 --> 00:10:51.730 And that was just starting to get really challenging. 00:10:51.889 --> 00:10:57.450 And so long story short, Amber, my wife's dad, 00:10:57.710 --> 00:10:59.929 had taken the offensive coordinator position 00:10:59.929 --> 00:11:03.330 at University of Texas football. And so we decided 00:11:03.330 --> 00:11:07.580 to kind of move halfway. And so we moved to a 00:11:07.580 --> 00:11:10.879 suburb of Dallas called South Lake. And it was 00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:13.779 great. It was good for the seven years that we 00:11:13.779 --> 00:11:15.860 lived there. And as soon as our kids graduated, 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:17.559 our daughter wanted to go to school in California. 00:11:17.779 --> 00:11:20.779 And she's a freshman at San Diego State. And 00:11:20.779 --> 00:11:23.720 we decided to move back. And so, you know, with 00:11:23.720 --> 00:11:27.659 kids out the door and my mother in Florida and 00:11:27.659 --> 00:11:31.509 my wife's family in the Midwest. You know, we 00:11:31.509 --> 00:11:33.110 didn't know really where to go. So we always 00:11:33.110 --> 00:11:35.210 said when we get back to California, we'll probably 00:11:35.210 --> 00:11:37.169 live anywhere somewhere between Coronado and 00:11:37.169 --> 00:11:40.610 Newport Beach. We just kind of love a lot of 00:11:40.610 --> 00:11:42.450 the you know, we love most of the beach towns. 00:11:42.509 --> 00:11:45.330 And so right now we're in Coronado, but we're 00:11:45.330 --> 00:11:49.029 actively looking. And I think within a month, 00:11:49.090 --> 00:11:51.830 if we got back on here, I would tell you we will 00:11:51.830 --> 00:11:54.429 either still be living in Coronado or somewhere 00:11:54.429 --> 00:11:56.809 up the coast, either in North County, San Diego 00:11:56.809 --> 00:11:59.750 or potentially in Orange County. Yeah, it's gorgeous 00:11:59.750 --> 00:12:02.149 there. When I worked for Anaheim, I first started 00:12:02.149 --> 00:12:04.230 in Burbank, which was typically the moving to 00:12:04.230 --> 00:12:06.610 LA story. I was under the Burbank airport living 00:12:06.610 --> 00:12:09.049 in an absolute rat hole. But as I progressed 00:12:09.049 --> 00:12:11.009 and got some money under me, I ended up at Huntington 00:12:11.009 --> 00:12:13.370 Beach. Now, not on the beach, kind of more towards 00:12:13.370 --> 00:12:16.710 Westminster, but gorgeous down there. It really 00:12:16.710 --> 00:12:20.370 is. I love Huntington. I do. It's like kind of 00:12:20.370 --> 00:12:22.230 more my style. I grew up in an East Coast beach 00:12:22.230 --> 00:12:25.230 town in Long Beach, and I could definitely live 00:12:25.230 --> 00:12:29.269 in Huntington. prices are actually are a lot 00:12:29.269 --> 00:12:30.970 better than like, if you're looking in Newport 00:12:30.970 --> 00:12:35.090 or Laguna or some other places, but, um, you 00:12:35.090 --> 00:12:36.809 know, I just, I think Huntington beach is great. 00:12:37.149 --> 00:12:39.529 And, um, so we'll see, we'll see where we end 00:12:39.529 --> 00:12:42.789 up, but for me to be close to the water is important. 00:12:42.929 --> 00:12:45.889 You know, if I can be on a board, um, or with 00:12:45.889 --> 00:12:48.649 fins on, you know, or with a dive mask, I'm good 00:12:48.649 --> 00:12:51.259 to go. Brilliant. Well, you mentioned Long Beach 00:12:51.259 --> 00:12:53.639 and you mentioned football. So I know those kind 00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:55.600 of factor into your earlier story. So let's start 00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:57.620 at the very beginning. Tell me where you were 00:12:57.620 --> 00:12:59.279 born and tell me a little bit about your family 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:01.360 dynamic, what your parents did and how many siblings. 00:13:01.940 --> 00:13:04.419 Yeah, I was actually born in Queens. Both my 00:13:04.419 --> 00:13:06.899 parents are from Flushing and Bayside. My dad 00:13:06.899 --> 00:13:10.879 went to Holy Cross High School in Flushing, Old 00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:14.120 Boys Catholic High School from 60 to 64. And 00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:17.879 my mom went to Bayside High School. They didn't 00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:20.179 know each other. They grew up. three, I don't 00:13:20.179 --> 00:13:21.779 know, less than three miles apart, but never 00:13:21.779 --> 00:13:23.659 didn't really know each other until they're in 00:13:23.659 --> 00:13:27.860 their, I guess, late twenties. But yeah, so my, 00:13:27.899 --> 00:13:31.179 my dad was a, you know, an altar boy at four 00:13:31.179 --> 00:13:33.860 years old, you know, Catholic school, like strong 00:13:33.860 --> 00:13:36.340 Catholic school upbringing. And my mom comes 00:13:36.340 --> 00:13:40.879 from a Jewish family, Kaplans, Ukrainian, Ukrainian 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:43.580 Jews. And yeah, they, they kind of raised me 00:13:43.580 --> 00:13:47.190 with no religion, just kind of. kind of just 00:13:47.190 --> 00:13:50.669 threw me out there but I I grew up very um very 00:13:50.669 --> 00:13:53.250 busy like I never felt like I was ever bored 00:13:53.250 --> 00:13:56.830 and I you know I always I played a sport uh from 00:13:56.830 --> 00:13:59.850 the day I could remember I was on skis at three 00:13:59.850 --> 00:14:02.730 years old and I actually have some memories of 00:14:02.730 --> 00:14:05.149 that at Keystone in Colorado where I learned 00:14:05.149 --> 00:14:07.490 how to ski and I think I was thrown in the pool 00:14:07.490 --> 00:14:11.730 at right when I turned four And so, you know, 00:14:11.730 --> 00:14:13.610 that's all I knew. And then, you know, gradually 00:14:13.610 --> 00:14:18.870 grew into everything, wrestling, baseball, football, 00:14:19.090 --> 00:14:22.389 basketball. Even though I grew up on Long Island, 00:14:22.450 --> 00:14:24.929 I had a short stint in lacrosse, but lacrosse 00:14:24.929 --> 00:14:28.990 and baseball overlapped. So, yeah, it was just 00:14:28.990 --> 00:14:34.429 really just a very busy life in sports. And my 00:14:34.429 --> 00:14:36.289 dad was, you know, pretty, I think, pretty tough 00:14:36.289 --> 00:14:41.049 on me when it came to athletics. Um, and I grew 00:14:41.049 --> 00:14:43.470 up, uh, as I mentioned in a, in an East coast 00:14:43.470 --> 00:14:46.950 beach town. So we had a great swim team. Um, 00:14:47.250 --> 00:14:49.110 I couldn't wait to be a lifeguard when I turned 00:14:49.110 --> 00:14:53.549 16 and, and that was like the dream job. You 00:14:53.549 --> 00:14:57.009 got paid a ton of money to, you know, sit on 00:14:57.009 --> 00:15:00.210 the beach all day, work out, run, do pull -ups 00:15:00.210 --> 00:15:02.389 and pushups and swim and all that good stuff. 00:15:02.470 --> 00:15:05.190 So, um, yeah, it was, it was awesome, but you 00:15:05.190 --> 00:15:07.289 know, my parents didn't know this at the time, 00:15:07.309 --> 00:15:09.169 but I was supposed to be born in Southern California. 00:15:11.149 --> 00:15:18.250 This is why we're here now. But yeah, I went, 00:15:18.289 --> 00:15:21.110 so I, I didn't go to public high school from 00:15:21.110 --> 00:15:23.610 Long Beach. I actually traveled an hour each 00:15:23.610 --> 00:15:26.649 day to Holy Cross in Flushing. I kind of followed 00:15:26.649 --> 00:15:32.190 my, my father's footsteps there. They had great. 00:15:32.750 --> 00:15:36.350 uh, sports programs. And, um, I had played pop 00:15:36.350 --> 00:15:40.429 Warner football with, uh, one of the individuals 00:15:40.429 --> 00:15:42.590 whose dad was the head coach at Holy cross at 00:15:42.590 --> 00:15:46.769 the time. And, and so I commuted, uh, every day 00:15:46.769 --> 00:15:50.649 for four years, I took the train, uh, 20 minutes 00:15:50.649 --> 00:15:54.429 to Valley stream and the head coach at the time, 00:15:54.450 --> 00:15:57.269 uh, coach Pew, Tom Pew would pick me up and he 00:15:57.269 --> 00:15:59.289 drove me the rest of the way. And so it was a 00:15:59.289 --> 00:16:02.409 little, a little longer than an hour each. at 00:16:02.409 --> 00:16:04.230 least going in and then with traffic, you know, 00:16:04.250 --> 00:16:05.950 probably longer than that. And so I did that 00:16:05.950 --> 00:16:09.269 for four years. And then I had some injuries 00:16:09.269 --> 00:16:12.490 my junior and senior year. And although I was 00:16:12.490 --> 00:16:14.190 a good athlete, I didn't know what I was going 00:16:14.190 --> 00:16:17.070 to do at the time. So I got recruited to play 00:16:17.070 --> 00:16:20.210 at Nassau Community College, which I think still 00:16:20.210 --> 00:16:22.730 to date is one of the top junior colleges to 00:16:22.730 --> 00:16:26.090 play football in the country. And I wound up 00:16:26.090 --> 00:16:27.870 getting a scholarship to Southern Illinois University 00:16:27.870 --> 00:16:31.070 out of there as a quarterback. And I joke with 00:16:31.070 --> 00:16:33.070 people. I said I went to Southern Illinois and 00:16:33.070 --> 00:16:35.970 I said 20 other guys on the team went to Michigan 00:16:35.970 --> 00:16:39.669 and Ohio State and Syracuse and Georgia Tech 00:16:39.669 --> 00:16:43.169 and always like, you know, big, big football 00:16:43.169 --> 00:16:48.269 schools in Georgia Tech. But but anyway, yes, 00:16:48.330 --> 00:16:51.669 it was good. And I met Amber. So I met Amber. 00:16:53.009 --> 00:16:55.970 She was going into her senior year of college 00:16:55.970 --> 00:17:01.860 and I was actually. Well, I was dating the coach's 00:17:01.860 --> 00:17:03.960 daughter. Her dad was the head coach at the time 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:06.059 at Southern Illinois University, and he recruited 00:17:06.059 --> 00:17:09.319 me from New York to play. But I didn't meet her 00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:11.740 until after he left. He went to coach with Gary 00:17:11.740 --> 00:17:14.940 Barnett at Northwestern a few years after they 00:17:14.940 --> 00:17:18.519 had their run. And that's when I started dating 00:17:18.519 --> 00:17:22.299 the coach's daughter. So we can go into that 00:17:22.299 --> 00:17:26.039 for a long time. But yeah, I mean, college was 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:29.750 great. I loved every minute of it, maybe too 00:17:29.750 --> 00:17:35.109 much. And when I graduated, a lot of stuff happened 00:17:35.109 --> 00:17:39.950 when I graduated. So it was graduation. Amber 00:17:39.950 --> 00:17:44.029 was pregnant. We got married. We had our son. 00:17:44.549 --> 00:17:48.289 I enlisted in the Navy. And the rest is history. 00:17:49.889 --> 00:17:52.250 That's a hell of a journey. I want to go back 00:17:52.250 --> 00:17:54.109 all the way back a couple of generations for 00:17:54.109 --> 00:17:57.509 a second. You said about Ukrainian on your mother's 00:17:57.509 --> 00:18:01.009 side. Do you have any relatives? And then do 00:18:01.009 --> 00:18:03.650 you have any perspective either family wise or 00:18:03.650 --> 00:18:07.289 maybe even from deeper into your career on that 00:18:07.289 --> 00:18:08.650 whole crisis that we're going through at the 00:18:08.650 --> 00:18:09.990 moment or they're going through? We're not going 00:18:09.990 --> 00:18:14.450 through it. Yeah. You know, I just have to say, 00:18:14.490 --> 00:18:17.809 I don't know. You know, I grew up in like that 00:18:17.809 --> 00:18:20.569 household. I call it like the typical Long Island 00:18:20.569 --> 00:18:23.369 household. Maybe it wasn't so typical, but, you 00:18:23.369 --> 00:18:26.009 know, religion wasn't like a big deal in the 00:18:26.009 --> 00:18:28.970 household. There wasn't a whole lot of patriotism. 00:18:29.890 --> 00:18:32.369 You know, I heard a lot about music and Woodstock 00:18:32.369 --> 00:18:34.990 and both my parents were hippies at one point 00:18:34.990 --> 00:18:37.990 in their life. Maybe that's how I decided to 00:18:37.990 --> 00:18:40.009 start a psychedelic nonprofit. I don't know. 00:18:41.230 --> 00:18:44.609 Anyway, but yeah, I was like, I was just different 00:18:44.609 --> 00:18:47.579 than both of them. Matter of fact, when I. When 00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:49.880 I had that first call with him in college, told 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:52.599 him I was going in the Navy to be a SEAL, they 00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:53.700 said they just looked at each other and they 00:18:53.700 --> 00:18:55.359 were just like, what the fuck is wrong with him? 00:18:57.539 --> 00:18:58.920 I thought it was the greatest thing ever, of 00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:05.299 course. And I'm sure they're fine now. But I'm 00:19:05.299 --> 00:19:08.359 off track, James. Where are we at? No, it's okay. 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:10.519 So yeah, I was going to ask you as far as the 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:12.980 Ukrainian perspective. So go back to Ukraine. 00:19:13.779 --> 00:19:17.660 Yeah, I don't know. My mother's side of the family, 00:19:17.819 --> 00:19:19.759 I don't know how many generations had come over 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:24.000 from the Ukraine. I'm assuming right after World 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:31.660 War II, but I don't know specifics. We weren't 00:19:31.660 --> 00:19:34.779 very close to either both sides of the family. 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:40.740 I don't know why, but my family consisted of 00:19:40.740 --> 00:19:43.359 myself, my mother, and my father. We had a ton 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:46.049 of animals. Always had dogs and cats. But that 00:19:46.049 --> 00:19:48.450 was it. We didn't really see a lot of cousins 00:19:48.450 --> 00:19:50.769 and aunts and uncles. And we did time to time 00:19:50.769 --> 00:19:53.549 and they were all amazing. But I just thought 00:19:53.549 --> 00:19:55.690 it was, you know, when I met Amber, who was the 00:19:55.690 --> 00:19:57.970 complete opposite, came from this family in the 00:19:57.970 --> 00:20:00.170 Midwest that was just massive. And it was always 00:20:00.170 --> 00:20:01.950 like all the families got together on Sundays. 00:20:02.109 --> 00:20:04.150 And so I don't know, maybe it had to do with, 00:20:04.210 --> 00:20:06.390 I think my dad was a wise guy back in the day, 00:20:06.430 --> 00:20:10.329 you know, banged around with some of the Italian. 00:20:10.809 --> 00:20:12.869 you know, Italian families. And I think when 00:20:12.869 --> 00:20:15.049 I was born, they wanted to get away from all 00:20:15.049 --> 00:20:17.109 that. And so moved out to the Island to have 00:20:17.109 --> 00:20:19.930 me and kind of raised me in a, in a, you know, 00:20:19.930 --> 00:20:22.730 in a neighborhood away from, uh, some of the, 00:20:22.769 --> 00:20:26.690 uh, some of the antics that were ever going on 00:20:26.690 --> 00:20:29.130 in Queens and in the five boroughs at the time. 00:20:29.150 --> 00:20:32.450 So, um, but yeah, I don't, you know, I wish I 00:20:32.450 --> 00:20:34.329 knew, I know, you know, we're doing a lot to, 00:20:34.430 --> 00:20:40.279 to figure out how we can help, help. The Ukrainians 00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:44.519 figure out the mess that they're currently in. 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:48.019 So we're trying to do some work on the nonprofit 00:20:48.019 --> 00:20:50.380 side, at least on the mental health side, trying 00:20:50.380 --> 00:20:52.200 to help them with resources and figure out some 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:56.099 game plans. We're actually working with pretty 00:20:56.099 --> 00:21:00.299 high up government officials from the ministry 00:21:00.299 --> 00:21:03.339 there. And we'll see what happens in the near 00:21:03.339 --> 00:21:06.400 future. But we're actually. helping them come 00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:09.019 up with some options and some game plan. And, 00:21:09.059 --> 00:21:12.420 and it's going to, it's going to be a long, it's 00:21:12.420 --> 00:21:16.859 going to be a long, it's a long game. The individuals 00:21:16.859 --> 00:21:18.960 that we've spoken to think that actually this 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:21.420 war is going to go on for years. So it's not 00:21:21.420 --> 00:21:23.619 going to end anytime soon because our question 00:21:23.619 --> 00:21:25.319 was, Hey, you know, when do you want to get started? 00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:27.299 You know, would you want to implement these, 00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:30.000 these treatments in the near term, or do you 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:31.940 want to wait until the war's over and their response 00:21:31.940 --> 00:21:35.549 right from the. The mouth of one of the individuals 00:21:35.549 --> 00:21:37.410 in Ukraine said, Marcus, this war is going to 00:21:37.410 --> 00:21:40.009 go on for a long time. And so we just need to 00:21:40.009 --> 00:21:44.369 get started in terms of training therapists and 00:21:44.369 --> 00:21:47.089 unregulating some of the medicines there. And 00:21:47.089 --> 00:21:49.690 so we brought in, you know, obviously some other 00:21:49.690 --> 00:21:51.990 experts to help with that. But, you know, they're 00:21:51.990 --> 00:21:54.789 going to be there for a while. That's so sad 00:21:54.789 --> 00:21:56.369 to hear. But I mean, you know, look at Afghanistan. 00:21:56.569 --> 00:22:00.509 That was 20 years. So, yeah. Right. Nothing happens, 00:22:00.650 --> 00:22:05.799 you know. too quickly and and um the ukrainians 00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:08.940 are a tough tough tough bunch and they're not 00:22:08.940 --> 00:22:11.460 going anywhere you know and now of course you 00:22:11.460 --> 00:22:14.880 and nato everyone's stepping in um you know russia's 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:18.339 gotta they have a much tougher battle than they 00:22:18.339 --> 00:22:21.440 originally expected so yeah well thank you for 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:24.000 that perspective well speaking of the military 00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:27.619 then so you're playing football simultaneously 00:22:28.750 --> 00:22:31.309 Dating the coach's daughter, you know, timeline 00:22:31.309 --> 00:22:35.029 forgiving, of course. Talk to me about your career 00:22:35.029 --> 00:22:36.750 aspirations when you were playing. Were you hoping 00:22:36.750 --> 00:22:39.670 to go pro? And if not, what caused that shift 00:22:39.670 --> 00:22:43.309 into the Navy? Yeah, so I had the juvenile mindset 00:22:43.309 --> 00:22:45.730 that I thought I was going to go play NFL football 00:22:45.730 --> 00:22:50.930 for 30 years. You know, my dad wanted me to really 00:22:50.930 --> 00:22:53.529 play baseball, play Major League Baseball. And 00:22:53.529 --> 00:22:55.329 he just said, you know, so much easier on your 00:22:55.329 --> 00:22:59.569 body. this and that. And I don't know, I wasn't, 00:22:59.569 --> 00:23:01.450 I really wasn't listening to, I loved football. 00:23:01.589 --> 00:23:03.930 I loved like that whole, just like team aspect 00:23:03.930 --> 00:23:08.230 and, and, uh, the, the, just everything that, 00:23:08.250 --> 00:23:10.410 that comes with football and you kind of lean 00:23:10.410 --> 00:23:12.170 on one another and you can't be an individual. 00:23:12.250 --> 00:23:16.630 And, and so, yeah, I thought I would play ball 00:23:16.630 --> 00:23:19.690 forever, but, um, that of course didn't happen. 00:23:20.289 --> 00:23:25.049 And, uh, I really, you know, I really didn't 00:23:25.049 --> 00:23:29.619 think about time in the military until it was 00:23:29.619 --> 00:23:32.039 my junior. I think it was my start of my senior 00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:34.920 year, end of my junior year. We were just chatting 00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:36.880 about this today, actually, on another call. 00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:40.759 I saw a special on Discovery, and I don't know 00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:46.220 if it was class 208. It was actually Andy Stump's 00:23:46.220 --> 00:23:49.299 class, ironically, and I did Andy's podcast a 00:23:49.299 --> 00:23:52.299 few months back. We didn't talk about that at 00:23:52.299 --> 00:23:54.789 all there. we should have, but that it was his 00:23:54.789 --> 00:23:59.970 class. And I just remember thinking like, this 00:23:59.970 --> 00:24:02.910 is awesome. And Amber, Amber actually has better 00:24:02.910 --> 00:24:04.890 recollection of it. She said, she said, you were 00:24:04.890 --> 00:24:07.410 really intrigued in all the water evolution. 00:24:07.450 --> 00:24:11.529 So like all the, um, uh, drown proofing and not 00:24:11.529 --> 00:24:13.349 tying and stuff that you're, you know, you're 00:24:13.349 --> 00:24:15.009 bouncing up and down on the deck of the pool. 00:24:15.069 --> 00:24:16.990 And I just looked at that stuff and I was like, 00:24:17.029 --> 00:24:20.759 that's just easy. I was like anything in the 00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:25.480 water, like, let's go. I'm down. And that was 00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:28.500 it. And it never like nothing matriculated from 00:24:28.500 --> 00:24:30.240 that though. It just, you know, life went on. 00:24:30.940 --> 00:24:34.299 And then, you know, I would, I didn't ever talk 00:24:34.299 --> 00:24:36.599 about this like years ago, of course, especially 00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:38.099 in my time in the teams. Cause I didn't want 00:24:38.099 --> 00:24:42.259 to get like roped up and taped and beaten, but. 00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:45.900 One night, my roommate and I, my roommate went 00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:48.660 on to have a stellar career. He was a four year 00:24:48.660 --> 00:24:51.519 starter at Strong Safety. And then he went on 00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:55.220 to fly F -18s and went to Top Gun and everything 00:24:55.220 --> 00:24:58.680 else in the Marine Corps. And we were watching 00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:03.819 what came on that night was G .I. Jane. And we're 00:25:03.819 --> 00:25:07.859 sitting there. And of course, when you're a college 00:25:07.859 --> 00:25:12.599 student who. really doesn't know anything about 00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:15.680 life. See something that come on TV. You just 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:18.460 assume like, this is it, this must be it. And 00:25:18.460 --> 00:25:20.400 so all they talked about there were, you know, 00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:23.160 Navy SEALs. And then I think they called it some, 00:25:23.180 --> 00:25:28.319 some units CRT, whatever it was that I didn't 00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:31.539 know. Of course, I thought it was all real. They 00:25:31.539 --> 00:25:33.920 just talked about this, this, this, this mythical 00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:37.240 unit that was like the best of the best soldiers 00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:42.099 and special operations guys. And that just intrigued 00:25:42.099 --> 00:25:44.059 me. And like, when you watch the training, right? 00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:46.680 Like, like people are suffering and people are 00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:51.339 quitting and they talk about the, the rate that 00:25:51.339 --> 00:25:54.059 only, you know, 25 % make it. And like, just 00:25:54.059 --> 00:25:58.299 all of that was just more fuel to go, Oh man, 00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:01.180 like this stuff is, this is hard. This is tough. 00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:06.220 And even though it was my like Hollywood vision 00:26:06.220 --> 00:26:09.210 of really what the SEAL teams were like, completely 00:26:09.210 --> 00:26:11.250 intrigued me. And then of course that, that, 00:26:11.250 --> 00:26:13.210 and then that really started. So couple of the, 00:26:13.309 --> 00:26:16.869 the discovery channel show, um, and then GI Jane, 00:26:17.069 --> 00:26:20.170 which I freaking pull out. None of that shit's 00:26:20.170 --> 00:26:25.109 real, but, um, but, um, and then I started reading 00:26:25.109 --> 00:26:28.130 like every book, uh, that I could get my hands 00:26:28.130 --> 00:26:31.269 on. I read, gosh, I probably read over 30 books, 00:26:31.369 --> 00:26:33.970 most of them written from Vietnam era frogs. 00:26:34.369 --> 00:26:38.619 And, um, it was just great. Every, Each book 00:26:38.619 --> 00:26:42.079 I read, I got more and more intrigued from wanting 00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:44.680 to do exactly what those guys were doing. And 00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:47.960 the more they talked about how difficult it was 00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:49.980 to get through buds, like the more I wanted to 00:26:49.980 --> 00:26:53.359 go. And, you know, the more they talked about 00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:56.740 operations in Vietnam, you know, going after 00:26:56.740 --> 00:27:00.660 like high value targets, the more I wanted to 00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:03.640 do that. And so it just it just became an obsession, 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:09.519 you know, an addiction. a focus uh whatever you 00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:14.099 want to call it and um yeah i guess the rest 00:27:14.099 --> 00:27:16.160 is history but we're going to talk about all 00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:18.700 that history in between so absolutely well just 00:27:18.700 --> 00:27:22.000 before we progress into you know adulthood one 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:24.640 thing that really was kind of made very visible 00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:27.339 to me about probably two years into the podcast 00:27:27.339 --> 00:27:29.839 about four years ago now when i'd never thought 00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:32.119 about it prior when we talk about mental health 00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:35.619 in you know fire police military a lot of times 00:27:35.619 --> 00:27:37.859 the the binoculars shift to oh it's what you 00:27:37.859 --> 00:27:41.200 see it's what you do um but actually when you 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:43.599 take a step back you got to remember that we've 00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:46.880 had 20 25 years prior to that to be a human being 00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:50.839 on this earth when you look back now at your 00:27:50.839 --> 00:27:53.039 childhood were there any elements you consider 00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:55.500 like childhood trauma and also i've heard you 00:27:55.500 --> 00:27:57.880 talk about this as also the tbi element too the 00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:01.880 head trauma element yeah great question james 00:28:01.880 --> 00:28:04.230 and Before I keep going, you were a lifeguard, 00:28:04.269 --> 00:28:06.089 weren't you? I was. Yeah. Yeah. Never on the 00:28:06.089 --> 00:28:08.589 ocean, though. So I did the open water and I 00:28:08.589 --> 00:28:11.930 did pools and water parks and stuff. Cool. Very 00:28:11.930 --> 00:28:16.549 cool. All right. Best job ever, I think. Yeah. 00:28:16.630 --> 00:28:20.049 So, you know, yeah, I think I had some childhood 00:28:20.049 --> 00:28:21.930 traumas. Again, what I thought was normal as 00:28:21.930 --> 00:28:27.029 a kid, you know, your dad backhands you or, you 00:28:27.029 --> 00:28:30.170 know, I saw I saw some pretty, you know, I saw 00:28:30.170 --> 00:28:35.490 stuff that. Only until recently did I remember 00:28:35.490 --> 00:28:37.549 or think about it because I never really thought 00:28:37.549 --> 00:28:44.890 about it. Growing up at a very young age, I'm 00:28:44.890 --> 00:28:47.049 talking about four years old, I can remember 00:28:47.049 --> 00:28:51.930 my dad putting his hands on me. Looking back, 00:28:52.049 --> 00:28:54.809 that wasn't cool at all because what was I? I 00:28:54.809 --> 00:29:01.490 was about this big at that time. a really, really 00:29:01.490 --> 00:29:05.170 bad Irish and Italian temper. Um, and sounds 00:29:05.170 --> 00:29:08.509 like his grandfather's was worse. And I heard 00:29:08.509 --> 00:29:11.589 his grandfather's was even worse. So generational 00:29:11.589 --> 00:29:14.950 shit that was happening, you know, happened. 00:29:15.450 --> 00:29:20.130 And, um, you know, I, I couldn't count the number 00:29:20.130 --> 00:29:22.710 of times that, you know, he, he put his hands 00:29:22.710 --> 00:29:25.710 on me, you know, whether he open, open hand, 00:29:25.829 --> 00:29:30.180 closed fist, uh, belt buckle, um, you know, broke 00:29:30.180 --> 00:29:35.039 my broke bones in my wrists um you know i watched 00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:39.140 him do things to my mom that were just not you 00:29:39.140 --> 00:29:43.220 know it's just a kid shouldn't see and so you 00:29:43.220 --> 00:29:45.880 know and aside from the fact of him you know 00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:47.420 just driving me and driving me and driving me 00:29:47.420 --> 00:29:52.059 in sports um you know so maybe all that put together 00:29:52.059 --> 00:29:55.519 is is a reason why one i couldn't wait to get 00:29:55.519 --> 00:30:00.170 far away uh to school um I had offers to go play 00:30:00.170 --> 00:30:02.210 ball in the, in the East coast, but I, I just 00:30:02.210 --> 00:30:05.849 wanted to get away. And, um, so maybe that had 00:30:05.849 --> 00:30:08.009 something to do with it. And maybe that's, you 00:30:08.009 --> 00:30:10.029 know, part of the reason what pushed me into 00:30:10.029 --> 00:30:14.089 special operations. I don't know. Um, so that's, 00:30:14.089 --> 00:30:15.910 you know, that's the psychological piece, if 00:30:15.910 --> 00:30:17.609 you want to call it, maybe some of the, some 00:30:17.609 --> 00:30:21.369 of the stuff for growing up and then, um, and 00:30:21.369 --> 00:30:26.630 I'm being, I'm being pretty, um, I'm being pretty 00:30:26.630 --> 00:30:29.690 high level here, you know, like. We can go into 00:30:29.690 --> 00:30:32.509 a lot deeper stories, but I don't know if it's 00:30:32.509 --> 00:30:34.869 important. Yeah, I mean, feel free. The door's 00:30:34.869 --> 00:30:37.190 open, so you go wherever you'd like to. Yeah, 00:30:37.210 --> 00:30:41.750 well, cool. Thank you for that. But yeah, on 00:30:41.750 --> 00:30:46.130 the TBI side, I still struggle with it, even 00:30:46.130 --> 00:30:51.130 though I have brain scans that show I obviously 00:30:51.130 --> 00:30:54.250 have some stuff going on in there that's probably 00:30:54.250 --> 00:30:57.970 affecting or has affected me in the past. But 00:30:57.970 --> 00:31:01.130 I think I started playing tackle football at 00:31:01.130 --> 00:31:06.750 seven. I think, I'm going to say, I think Archie 00:31:06.750 --> 00:31:09.269 Manning wouldn't let his kids play tackle football 00:31:09.269 --> 00:31:12.089 until they were in high school. So all the sports 00:31:12.089 --> 00:31:15.670 that they played and as good as they got, he 00:31:15.670 --> 00:31:18.609 wouldn't let them, he didn't let them like get 00:31:18.609 --> 00:31:22.569 touched until they were, let's say 14, 15 years 00:31:22.569 --> 00:31:26.769 old. I remember my first hit. that I can really 00:31:26.769 --> 00:31:36.470 remember at seven. And the gear in 1983 was probably 00:31:36.470 --> 00:31:40.470 shit. And I remember at seven playing against 00:31:40.470 --> 00:31:44.430 this guy. I think his name was Jarvon Jackson. 00:31:44.710 --> 00:31:48.890 He was a 10 year old. He looked like Walter Payton 00:31:48.890 --> 00:31:54.190 and he hit like Ronnie Lott. And I remember trying 00:31:54.190 --> 00:31:57.039 to stuff the hole. I didn't even know what that 00:31:57.039 --> 00:31:59.579 meant at seven years old and putting my head 00:31:59.579 --> 00:32:02.240 down like this and literally getting run over 00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:07.660 helmet to helmet and being knocked like so hard 00:32:07.660 --> 00:32:10.119 that I didn't even know which way it was up or 00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:16.299 down from this 10 year old monster. So, you know, 00:32:16.299 --> 00:32:18.920 and then. Yeah. And then I had a career, you 00:32:18.920 --> 00:32:21.500 know, career, career of, of everything, you know, 00:32:21.500 --> 00:32:24.019 sports up until my, uh, well through my senior 00:32:24.019 --> 00:32:26.099 high school, uh, excuse me, senior college. So 00:32:26.099 --> 00:32:28.420 I played, you know, I was a football player all 00:32:28.420 --> 00:32:30.880 the way through and, and, you know, I skied and 00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:33.720 did everything else. And so I had definitely 00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:37.880 a history of, uh, hard head to head com contact, 00:32:38.099 --> 00:32:42.960 um, uh, pretty, pretty consistently. Um, and 00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:46.779 then That was through, I guess, 22 years old. 00:32:46.819 --> 00:32:52.200 I joined the military at 23 and had some really, 00:32:52.380 --> 00:32:59.400 you know, of course, some pretty hard hits, both 00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:04.619 in helmets and out of helmets through my, you 00:33:04.619 --> 00:33:08.460 know, my 13 -year military career. I was a breacher, 00:33:08.539 --> 00:33:12.559 so I did, I was around. um, explosive charges 00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:16.359 pretty often. Um, you know, that's why I feel 00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:18.099 for some of the, some of the guys I worked with, 00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:21.480 I remember who had more time in the military 00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:24.460 as I had. And I remember a close friend that, 00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:27.220 um, I worked with, we were on a breaching trip 00:33:27.220 --> 00:33:30.720 and he had, uh, he had like blood and, and, and, 00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:33.640 um, black shit coming out of his, his nose, uh, 00:33:33.740 --> 00:33:36.460 after a day of, of setting charges off. I remember 00:33:36.460 --> 00:33:38.759 turning to him and just saying, Hey man, like 00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:41.400 that just can't be good. You know, and we both 00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:44.119 looked at each other like, yeah, you know, it 00:33:44.119 --> 00:33:47.619 feels great right now. I love, you know, love 00:33:47.619 --> 00:33:49.519 that shockwave, like rattling your teeth and 00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:52.259 your head and your body. I mean, there is nothing 00:33:52.259 --> 00:33:55.559 like it in the world, you know, but, you know, 00:33:55.579 --> 00:33:59.099 you will pay the price eventually. And so, you 00:33:59.099 --> 00:34:02.920 know, so I had the psychological piece, if you 00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:04.759 want to call it trauma, probably starting as 00:34:04.759 --> 00:34:10.309 a child. And then. You know, the TBI piece probably 00:34:10.309 --> 00:34:12.809 starting, I guess, also as a child and really 00:34:12.809 --> 00:34:16.309 not stopping until, I guess, probably around 00:34:16.309 --> 00:34:21.170 2013. Yeah. And, you know, ironically and unfortunately, 00:34:21.510 --> 00:34:25.110 my headaches now, like literally today, are just 00:34:25.110 --> 00:34:29.150 worse than ever. And I'm a little worried. They 00:34:29.150 --> 00:34:33.809 were definitely, you know, my cognitive functioning 00:34:33.809 --> 00:34:36.489 is like. off the charts much better than they've 00:34:36.489 --> 00:34:39.769 ever been. Um, but I'm getting, I'm getting really 00:34:39.769 --> 00:34:42.170 weird headaches that I've never had before. And 00:34:42.170 --> 00:34:43.989 it's kind of frightening me a little bit because, 00:34:44.010 --> 00:34:46.949 um, I have had headaches throughout my career. 00:34:47.289 --> 00:34:50.969 Um, I, I've lived on ibuprofen for so many years. 00:34:51.150 --> 00:34:54.789 Um, I'm looking at like a new, you know, a new 00:34:54.789 --> 00:34:56.670 pharmaceutical to take right now that doesn't 00:34:56.670 --> 00:34:58.789 affect the stomach as much because I'm, I'm feel 00:34:58.789 --> 00:35:01.170 like I eat those things like candy and I just 00:35:01.170 --> 00:35:03.769 know they're not good for you. But, um, Yeah. 00:35:03.869 --> 00:35:06.269 Just, you know, again, we were talking about 00:35:06.269 --> 00:35:07.989 it recently. I think I'm going to go get, I'm 00:35:07.989 --> 00:35:10.849 going to go get some, some more scans because 00:35:10.849 --> 00:35:14.130 just for the headaches. So other than that, like 00:35:14.130 --> 00:35:18.030 everything else is good, really good. But. these 00:35:18.030 --> 00:35:19.690 headaches are just weird. They're happening in 00:35:19.690 --> 00:35:22.469 weird spots that like they didn't happen before 00:35:22.469 --> 00:35:25.250 and they come on really strong. And if I don't 00:35:25.250 --> 00:35:26.989 take care of them immediately, I go into this 00:35:26.989 --> 00:35:30.469 like horrible migraine, you know, where then 00:35:30.469 --> 00:35:32.969 I have to take like ibuprofen and like find somebody 00:35:32.969 --> 00:35:35.349 to give me a Toradol shot and like just anything 00:35:35.349 --> 00:35:38.550 to like kill the, kill the pain. And sometimes 00:35:38.550 --> 00:35:42.909 it's from it's from dehydration. Other times 00:35:42.909 --> 00:35:45.340 it's just from literally like smack in my head 00:35:45.340 --> 00:35:47.059 like if i'm surfing or something and like just 00:35:47.059 --> 00:35:50.820 like fall off on a wave or or you know sometimes 00:35:50.820 --> 00:35:53.659 it's just different ways i'm you know putting 00:35:53.659 --> 00:35:56.639 my my neck so these are just things that didn't 00:35:56.639 --> 00:35:59.800 happen before and so i'm you know i'm a little 00:35:59.800 --> 00:36:02.099 concerned i'm just i'm not going with that there's 00:36:02.099 --> 00:36:04.659 nothing nothing too bad in there and i'm just 00:36:04.659 --> 00:36:08.639 maybe i'm just aging a little bit so i had um 00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:11.960 significant amount of head trauma not probably 00:36:11.960 --> 00:36:13.880 as much as you but i did martial arts when i 00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:16.599 was younger um spent some time in shoot box in 00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:19.159 la which vandal a silver's gym if you remember 00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:22.000 that so basically fight club getting the shit 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:25.059 kicked out of me for a year straight did stunts 00:36:25.059 --> 00:36:26.760 um firefighting we don't really get a lot of 00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:28.699 head trauma ceiling falls on your head once in 00:36:28.699 --> 00:36:31.780 a while but nothing too bad but i've always suffered 00:36:31.780 --> 00:36:34.380 from migraines and sleep deprivation was a huge 00:36:34.380 --> 00:36:36.320 one for me and it's funny when you talk to current 00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:38.460 pastor you start to understand you know head 00:36:38.460 --> 00:36:40.900 trauma and sleep deprivation pretty much mimic 00:36:40.900 --> 00:36:43.639 the same thing physiologically but when i get 00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:45.980 them i mean they're two days long i throw up 00:36:45.980 --> 00:36:48.340 i have you know diarrhea i mean it's absolutely 00:36:48.340 --> 00:36:50.940 fucking brutal and nothing nothing touches it 00:36:50.940 --> 00:36:52.960 so the only thing that i've found aside from 00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:55.000 transitioning off the fire service and getting 00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:58.539 sleep is uh chiropractic like dressing the muscles 00:36:58.539 --> 00:37:02.199 in my neck that get super tight is is you know 00:37:02.199 --> 00:37:04.940 somewhat of a help but um yeah i feel your pain 00:37:04.940 --> 00:37:07.610 completely because mine are completely debilitating 00:37:07.610 --> 00:37:10.150 and i don't know if you know if there's that 00:37:10.150 --> 00:37:12.250 much head trauma involved or it's more stress 00:37:12.250 --> 00:37:15.110 you know deprivation all that stuff but if you 00:37:15.110 --> 00:37:16.909 suffer from migraines i feel your pain because 00:37:16.909 --> 00:37:19.769 they are absolutely awful yeah james i'm sorry 00:37:19.769 --> 00:37:21.710 to hear that too because i like i said i i know 00:37:21.710 --> 00:37:24.670 whatever i go through i i don't wish upon anyone 00:37:24.670 --> 00:37:27.530 so like when you tell me that i i feel horrible 00:37:27.530 --> 00:37:29.170 because i know i know what they're like and i 00:37:29.170 --> 00:37:31.309 know sometimes when you do take medicine they 00:37:31.309 --> 00:37:35.110 still don't go away so maybe they they they dampen 00:37:35.110 --> 00:37:38.289 a little bit Um, but they can be, you know, when 00:37:38.289 --> 00:37:40.070 you start pulling your hair out, literally like, 00:37:40.170 --> 00:37:44.329 I mean, you know, it's, it's not, um, so I, I'm, 00:37:44.329 --> 00:37:46.690 I'm sorry to hear that. I know, I know what that's 00:37:46.690 --> 00:37:48.929 like. And, you know, I always say that I say 00:37:48.929 --> 00:37:50.670 that I always say the same thing about depression 00:37:50.670 --> 00:37:53.309 because I think depression is so debilitating 00:37:53.309 --> 00:37:55.809 and I don't wish that upon anyone because sometimes 00:37:55.809 --> 00:37:59.659 you just can't. you don't know how um or you 00:37:59.659 --> 00:38:01.940 haven't been what i call cracked open from from 00:38:01.940 --> 00:38:04.400 some of the medicine uh that we work with you 00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:05.960 know you don't know how to get out of those those 00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:08.880 deep ruts and uh i don't wish that upon anyone 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:11.159 either because they're just they're not fun places 00:38:11.159 --> 00:38:13.739 to be no absolutely not and i think sadly you 00:38:13.739 --> 00:38:15.300 know they're they're the price of them doing 00:38:15.300 --> 00:38:17.559 business um and we can do business a lot better 00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:19.719 because now i think we're the same are you 48 00:38:21.699 --> 00:38:24.039 I'm 45. 45, okay, I got my math wrong. Yeah, 00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:27.099 I'm not that old yet. So we're almost the same 00:38:27.099 --> 00:38:28.980 age. So yeah, I mean, now if you look at martial 00:38:28.980 --> 00:38:31.239 arts, for example, they're not kicking the shit 00:38:31.239 --> 00:38:32.679 out of each other in gyms anymore. All the good 00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:35.099 gyms, it's less is more. It's light sparring. 00:38:35.179 --> 00:38:36.539 If you're going to fight, you fight in the ring. 00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:40.340 And the same, hopefully, with my community down 00:38:40.340 --> 00:38:42.239 the road, I hope we'll fix the shifts so that 00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:43.960 they get a lot more rest and recovery in between. 00:38:44.179 --> 00:38:46.019 But Kirk Parsley is one of the reasons why I 00:38:46.019 --> 00:38:48.179 started this podcast and what he did with his 00:38:48.179 --> 00:38:50.460 community. He was working and addressing the 00:38:50.460 --> 00:38:53.039 sleep deprivation. and you know addressing some 00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:54.780 of the hormones and stuff i mean it was amazing 00:38:54.780 --> 00:38:58.119 yeah i mean i went to many years ago when we 00:38:58.119 --> 00:38:59.780 first came out to the west coast and became very 00:38:59.780 --> 00:39:03.480 close with kurt and kurt really you know he is 00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:07.059 um kind of an anchor in this whole story you 00:39:07.059 --> 00:39:09.559 know um we can get i don't maybe get into later 00:39:09.559 --> 00:39:11.739 but you kurt was one of the reasons why i went 00:39:11.739 --> 00:39:14.820 and did my first uh psychedelic experience um 00:39:14.820 --> 00:39:18.980 was from him his recommendation and also um he 00:39:18.980 --> 00:39:21.219 was working in the background with amber for 00:39:21.219 --> 00:39:24.780 almost a year uh trying to get me to commit but 00:39:24.780 --> 00:39:27.380 you know it takes a while of course so i have 00:39:27.380 --> 00:39:30.900 nothing but a huge huge place in my heart for 00:39:30.900 --> 00:39:34.940 kurt and and just as a friend as a brother as 00:39:34.940 --> 00:39:38.920 a seal brother and of course what he's um he's 00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:42.300 doing for and what he was doing initially for 00:39:42.300 --> 00:39:44.380 the community when none of the what he tells 00:39:44.380 --> 00:39:46.739 me the graybeards didn't want to listen to him 00:39:46.739 --> 00:39:49.659 and why he got out and why he started doing the 00:39:49.659 --> 00:39:52.099 same thing for the guys because you know he just 00:39:52.099 --> 00:39:55.360 cares about the guys so much and he knew and 00:39:55.360 --> 00:40:00.619 knows what's right and um yeah absolutely all 00:40:00.619 --> 00:40:02.179 right well let me kind of walk you through your 00:40:02.179 --> 00:40:04.239 career then so we can get to the other side and 00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:06.789 start talking about that One thing I think is 00:40:06.789 --> 00:40:08.510 fascinating with anyone that comes on the show 00:40:08.510 --> 00:40:14.230 is the level of attrition that you have in SEAL 00:40:14.230 --> 00:40:18.349 selection, I think, is a model for police, is 00:40:18.349 --> 00:40:20.610 a model for fire. Now, obviously, we need more 00:40:20.610 --> 00:40:23.389 bodies probably than you guys result in, but 00:40:23.389 --> 00:40:26.650 I think setting that bar high is something that 00:40:26.650 --> 00:40:29.590 we need to see in our profession as well. So 00:40:29.590 --> 00:40:33.789 when so many people that you got hired with that 00:40:33.789 --> 00:40:36.050 went through BUDS, ended up ringing the bell, 00:40:36.190 --> 00:40:38.730 physically and mentally, what was it that carried 00:40:38.730 --> 00:40:41.170 you through and allowed you to make it through 00:40:41.170 --> 00:40:49.030 all the way to the end? I was too dumb to quit. 00:40:53.010 --> 00:40:57.630 No, I went there with a purpose. I was going 00:40:57.630 --> 00:41:01.849 to be a SEAL. That was it. Whatever they wanted 00:41:01.849 --> 00:41:05.460 to throw at me, it didn't matter. they could 00:41:05.460 --> 00:41:07.500 have, they could have beat us every day for six 00:41:07.500 --> 00:41:10.460 months. And I just would have stayed there and 00:41:10.460 --> 00:41:13.440 just figured, Oh, this is, this is just a school 00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:15.940 I have to get through to, to, to get to the final, 00:41:15.980 --> 00:41:19.119 you know, final place where you received that 00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:23.280 Trident and get your platoon. So for me, it was 00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:27.320 never about like, you know, pass fail or can 00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:30.719 I do this? Or it was just, okay, what's the evolution. 00:41:30.940 --> 00:41:33.489 All right, great. Like we got to. We got to do 00:41:33.489 --> 00:41:35.329 that today. And some, of course, you're better 00:41:35.329 --> 00:41:39.010 than others. So for me, it was, it was, I don't 00:41:39.010 --> 00:41:41.289 want to say it was weird. It was just the mindset 00:41:41.289 --> 00:41:45.010 I had going in was that this is just another 00:41:45.010 --> 00:41:48.610 school or thing I have to do to get to where 00:41:48.610 --> 00:41:50.750 I'm going. And so whatever they throw at me, 00:41:50.769 --> 00:41:53.809 I'm, I'm, I'm fine. It's going to be hard, but 00:41:53.809 --> 00:41:56.630 I'll never complain about, you know, why they're 00:41:56.630 --> 00:42:00.070 doing it or whatever. But, you know, people, 00:42:01.730 --> 00:42:03.349 you know, individuals that go to buds, they, 00:42:03.429 --> 00:42:05.570 they quit for, you know, a host of reasons. You 00:42:05.570 --> 00:42:07.469 mentioned two of them. Well, I mean, it is, it's 00:42:07.469 --> 00:42:09.550 physical and mental really. And the physical 00:42:09.550 --> 00:42:12.230 piece aside from, you know, the pushups and sit 00:42:12.230 --> 00:42:15.590 -ups and pull -ups and running and all that fun 00:42:15.590 --> 00:42:19.170 stuff. Um, the cold water is what gets most people. 00:42:19.210 --> 00:42:21.489 I think that's what separates. They asked what 00:42:21.489 --> 00:42:23.110 separates, you know, a lot of the, a lot of the 00:42:23.110 --> 00:42:25.130 services and a lot of the special forces and 00:42:25.130 --> 00:42:28.690 different units. And I think, I think it's the 00:42:28.690 --> 00:42:32.119 water. Um, And I think it's the cold water because 00:42:32.119 --> 00:42:35.019 nothing is more demoralizing. And when you're 00:42:35.019 --> 00:42:37.280 cold and you have to get out and you stand there 00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:41.019 and you just feel, you feel like a piece of shit 00:42:41.019 --> 00:42:44.039 and you're, you're shaking. And, and they say, 00:42:44.099 --> 00:42:45.860 you got to go back in, you know, it's usually 00:42:45.860 --> 00:42:47.340 when they say you got to go back in. It's not 00:42:47.340 --> 00:42:49.179 like when you're in, you know, people do quit, 00:42:49.239 --> 00:42:52.019 people quit. The majority individuals that quit 00:42:52.019 --> 00:42:57.000 buds are it turns back into psychological. So 00:42:57.000 --> 00:42:58.820 it's like the morning you wake up in the morning, 00:42:58.860 --> 00:43:00.940 first off, People ask me what's the hardest part 00:43:00.940 --> 00:43:02.780 of buds. I tell them waking up in the morning 00:43:02.780 --> 00:43:07.480 because you wake up and you literally can't fucking 00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:12.019 move. And, you know, in 30 minutes, you're literally 00:43:12.019 --> 00:43:14.739 going to be on the grinder, getting your ass 00:43:14.739 --> 00:43:16.980 beat again and sprinting, you know, 400 yards 00:43:16.980 --> 00:43:19.239 in and out of the ocean, getting Sandy coming 00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:22.480 back and doing it in two minutes. And that just 00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:25.400 the thought of that when you can't move and you're 00:43:25.400 --> 00:43:30.110 kind of warm under your covers and it's. California, 00:43:30.110 --> 00:43:33.050 when the sun's not out a coastal desert environment. 00:43:33.130 --> 00:43:37.269 So it could be, I don't know, 48, even, you know, 00:43:37.269 --> 00:43:41.309 even mid fifties is cold when you, you know, 00:43:41.329 --> 00:43:43.869 the water is going to be somewhere in the low 00:43:43.869 --> 00:43:47.050 sixties, mid sixties, or if you're really unlucky 00:43:47.050 --> 00:43:50.989 here in the mid fifties, but anyway. Um, yeah, 00:43:51.110 --> 00:43:55.440 I mean, I, I, I just, um, I never, never really 00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:57.219 thought about quitting. I had like a moment of 00:43:57.219 --> 00:43:58.920 weakness. I think Wednesday night, a hell week, 00:43:58.940 --> 00:44:01.139 I remember like breaking down and just going 00:44:01.139 --> 00:44:03.400 like, what am I doing? Like, it was one of those 00:44:03.400 --> 00:44:05.219 things where my mind was just started wandering. 00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:08.460 I probably was hallucinating. Um, but yeah, for 00:44:08.460 --> 00:44:12.159 me, quitting was never an option. How much did 00:44:12.159 --> 00:44:14.639 GI Joe prepare you for that process? I mean, 00:44:14.659 --> 00:44:21.380 excuse me, GI Jane or GI Joe either. Um, I mean, 00:44:21.380 --> 00:44:29.079 like, Probably zero. Right. It was a great movie. 00:44:30.619 --> 00:44:33.559 I mean, nothing, there's nothing there that is, 00:44:33.559 --> 00:44:36.820 is even, I mean, I guess there's similar, there's 00:44:36.820 --> 00:44:39.059 like, there's some similarities, but there's, 00:44:39.059 --> 00:44:41.179 you know, still at the end of the day, I don't 00:44:41.179 --> 00:44:44.320 care. It's like, it's like stuff that's in theory 00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:46.860 and then in, in, in practical work. Right. So 00:44:46.860 --> 00:44:48.820 I don't care how many books you read, like you 00:44:48.820 --> 00:44:52.360 still can't go out on a range and shoot a, a, 00:44:52.460 --> 00:44:56.150 a long gun. just by, you know, being an expert 00:44:56.150 --> 00:44:59.329 at reading every manual that there is on this 00:44:59.329 --> 00:45:03.489 specific, you know, weapon system. And so like, 00:45:03.510 --> 00:45:05.769 you actually have to do, you have to do the work. 00:45:05.849 --> 00:45:08.730 And so whatever you watch, that's why it still 00:45:08.730 --> 00:45:10.590 hasn't gotten easier because there's so much 00:45:10.590 --> 00:45:12.469 information out there. They could watch whatever 00:45:12.469 --> 00:45:14.190 they want. They could hear all these podcasts 00:45:14.190 --> 00:45:17.610 about all the cool guys. Some of them that have 00:45:17.610 --> 00:45:19.349 done really cool things and they could hear about 00:45:19.349 --> 00:45:23.539 every hour and every minute of buds. Um, but 00:45:23.539 --> 00:45:26.539 like, how is that going to help a person when, 00:45:26.679 --> 00:45:32.800 you know, there's a war, uh, war fighter that 00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:36.320 just spent the last 20 years on his like 25th 00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:39.400 combat deployment, kicking sand in your face. 00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:41.320 Like, I don't care what you watch or what you 00:45:41.320 --> 00:45:44.539 read or what you think, you know, um, you're, 00:45:44.539 --> 00:45:46.820 you're going to get your ass beat and depends 00:45:46.820 --> 00:45:49.119 on what's going on up here is going to keep you 00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:51.719 going. Yeah, backdraft didn't prepare me too 00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:54.199 well for Fire Academy either. I thought I could 00:45:54.199 --> 00:45:57.199 be a firefighter after a backdraft. I carry this, 00:45:57.320 --> 00:46:00.239 I wear this gear. If something falls, I move 00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:03.099 out of the way. The door thing, right? Like, 00:46:03.099 --> 00:46:04.559 oh shit, there's more than enough. I open it, 00:46:04.619 --> 00:46:07.059 backdraft. So I'm not supposed to do that. I'm 00:46:07.059 --> 00:46:08.760 sure that's exactly how they teach you to do 00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:10.119 that. It is, and then you just have to suspect 00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:12.139 the chief is an arsonist and then you're pretty 00:46:12.139 --> 00:46:16.420 much going to get through it. All right, well 00:46:16.420 --> 00:46:18.750 then, I know you have an interesting... kind 00:46:18.750 --> 00:46:20.369 of career as well because you entered pre -9 00:46:20.369 --> 00:46:22.670 11 9 11 happened like right when you were going 00:46:22.670 --> 00:46:24.710 through all this so you know talk to me about 00:46:24.710 --> 00:46:26.750 that journey and when you found yourself finally 00:46:26.750 --> 00:46:32.630 overseas yeah so it was pre -9 11 it's uh there 00:46:32.630 --> 00:46:36.190 was no war and so when i when i when i got into 00:46:36.190 --> 00:46:39.349 the teams it was well actually i wasn't in teams 00:46:39.349 --> 00:46:43.389 i was in buds um we just thought we were you 00:46:43.389 --> 00:46:45.289 know we were running on the beach we're getting 00:46:45.289 --> 00:46:47.510 strong and we're gonna go to our platoon we're 00:46:47.510 --> 00:46:50.429 gonna do all this quote unquote cool shit and 00:46:50.429 --> 00:46:54.769 jump out of planes and then a couple idiots decided 00:46:54.769 --> 00:46:58.050 to fly two aircraft into the World Trade Center 00:46:58.050 --> 00:47:01.409 and a couple others decided to fly into the Pentagon 00:47:01.409 --> 00:47:06.269 and one downed into a field in Virginia. Anyway, 00:47:06.369 --> 00:47:10.650 we got to watch about a minute of that. I was 00:47:10.650 --> 00:47:13.050 in third phase. We were actually doing PT. We 00:47:13.050 --> 00:47:15.230 were doing push -ups and pull -ups and sit -ups 00:47:15.230 --> 00:47:18.710 and instructors came out and said, hey somebody 00:47:18.710 --> 00:47:20.530 just flew a plane into the world trade center 00:47:20.530 --> 00:47:23.510 and i remember us all started bitching and complaining 00:47:23.510 --> 00:47:26.550 that we were in third phase about to graduate 00:47:26.550 --> 00:47:30.570 from six months of buds and why are they still 00:47:30.570 --> 00:47:33.329 messing with us like we thought this was one 00:47:33.329 --> 00:47:37.250 of those psychological um you know shit storms 00:47:37.250 --> 00:47:41.469 that they were trying to it's part of buds it's 00:47:41.469 --> 00:47:44.269 called buds so they actually followed us into 00:47:44.269 --> 00:47:47.250 the um the uh living quarters where they where 00:47:47.250 --> 00:47:52.550 they stayed of course we slept outside um literally 00:47:52.550 --> 00:47:56.570 um and you would get followed into this big screen 00:47:56.570 --> 00:48:01.230 tv and yeah the towers are you know they're they're 00:48:01.230 --> 00:48:03.670 on fire and coming down and we were like holy 00:48:03.670 --> 00:48:08.510 shit like what what's happening so we didn't 00:48:08.510 --> 00:48:10.210 really understand it at the time as students 00:48:10.210 --> 00:48:13.269 like we were still just like gung -ho and just 00:48:13.269 --> 00:48:17.210 you know This is cool. But the instructors, their 00:48:17.210 --> 00:48:19.530 whole demeanor changed. Like they knew, like 00:48:19.530 --> 00:48:22.010 they'd been in the teams for 10 years, 15, 20, 00:48:22.050 --> 00:48:25.909 depending on what leadership level they were 00:48:25.909 --> 00:48:31.789 at. And it was for them, they knew like, we're 00:48:31.789 --> 00:48:36.030 about to go to war. And I just, I remember it. 00:48:36.190 --> 00:48:39.989 Like, I couldn't believe the, the whole shift, 00:48:40.090 --> 00:48:43.190 that paradigm shift, you want to call it from, 00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:47.980 being a certain way to like this really like 00:48:47.980 --> 00:48:51.340 hardened and everything they talked about after 00:48:51.340 --> 00:48:54.940 that was about, you know, if you did something 00:48:54.940 --> 00:48:57.280 wrong, well, how are you going to perform in 00:48:57.280 --> 00:48:59.460 combat? You know what I mean? It started going 00:48:59.460 --> 00:49:03.599 back to like, everything was now combat focused 00:49:03.599 --> 00:49:07.420 versus this one time, you know, when I was at 00:49:07.420 --> 00:49:10.880 buds or this one time on this training trip. 00:49:11.650 --> 00:49:14.769 Or this one time when we did this, everything 00:49:14.769 --> 00:49:17.469 started focused to like, you screw something 00:49:17.469 --> 00:49:21.590 up, how are you going to perform in combat? That's 00:49:21.590 --> 00:49:26.789 what the whole shift in demeanor went to. And 00:49:26.789 --> 00:49:32.010 it was real. It got very real after that. So 00:49:32.010 --> 00:49:34.670 a question that I like to ask anyone who's actually 00:49:34.670 --> 00:49:37.889 been deployed, who's seen combat, and the reason 00:49:37.889 --> 00:49:41.239 behind this is, We get a very polarized view. 00:49:41.300 --> 00:49:43.159 And I say we, civilians. Obviously, I'm a fireman. 00:49:43.179 --> 00:49:46.179 I'm not a member of the military. A very polarizing 00:49:46.179 --> 00:49:50.539 view of war. Either the one extreme is they're 00:49:50.539 --> 00:49:52.760 all a bunch of baby killers. And then the other 00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:54.980 side is kill them all, let God sort them out. 00:49:55.739 --> 00:50:00.179 CNN versus Fox, basically. And then in the middle 00:50:00.179 --> 00:50:02.559 ground are the men and women. barely, you know, 00:50:02.559 --> 00:50:05.800 children that we send over in uniforms to, you 00:50:05.800 --> 00:50:07.500 know, go fight for our country with an American 00:50:07.500 --> 00:50:09.480 flag or British flag or Australian flag on their 00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:12.980 shoulder. So those are the stories that I want 00:50:12.980 --> 00:50:14.500 to bring, almost like Sebastian Junger's town 00:50:14.500 --> 00:50:17.699 hall that he talks about. So when you were over 00:50:17.699 --> 00:50:19.340 there, regardless of the politics, obviously 00:50:19.340 --> 00:50:21.900 you had a very real reaction because, you know, 00:50:21.940 --> 00:50:24.059 you witnessed the towers falling as you were 00:50:24.059 --> 00:50:26.420 going through training. But were there any kind 00:50:26.420 --> 00:50:28.199 of things that you witnessed overseas, whether 00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:31.110 Iraq or Afghanistan? where you realize, okay, 00:50:31.170 --> 00:50:34.929 regardless of what sent me here, now I'm seeing 00:50:34.929 --> 00:50:36.730 with my own eyes some horrible people that we 00:50:36.730 --> 00:50:46.789 need to take care of? So we, I mean, my mission 00:50:46.789 --> 00:50:52.369 on every deployment was going after high value 00:50:52.369 --> 00:50:58.190 targets for the most part. And so, you know, 00:50:58.190 --> 00:51:01.119 we, mostly saw kind of the worst of the worst 00:51:01.119 --> 00:51:05.480 over there and and yeah i mean of course there's 00:51:05.480 --> 00:51:08.139 um there's terrible things that happen in war 00:51:08.139 --> 00:51:10.780 like horrible things and we've all seen them 00:51:10.780 --> 00:51:13.960 um we all hear about them and that stuff definitely 00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:19.519 does happen um but uh i mean what we were doing 00:51:19.519 --> 00:51:23.019 is exactly what we wanted to do like we like 00:51:23.019 --> 00:51:27.780 i went to buds and went through you know um my 00:51:27.780 --> 00:51:31.880 my platoons and then selection after that to 00:51:31.880 --> 00:51:36.119 go chase down, you know, bad guys that were taking 00:51:36.119 --> 00:51:39.880 out, you know, our soldiers, you know, during 00:51:39.880 --> 00:51:42.239 the daytime hours on the street and, you know, 00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:45.539 taking off arms and legs and and everything else. 00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:49.699 And so, you know, we we felt we we were doing 00:51:49.699 --> 00:51:52.860 a righteous thing. We were fighting terrorists 00:51:52.860 --> 00:51:56.519 and we were fighting really bad people that in. 00:51:56.940 --> 00:51:59.900 in wouldn't even think twice about killing you 00:51:59.900 --> 00:52:04.039 or your family or, you know, your, your, your, 00:52:04.039 --> 00:52:07.860 your wife and kids. And we're talking about civilian 00:52:07.860 --> 00:52:12.360 people that they wouldn't even think even blink 00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:16.039 an eye to where, you know, that's the opposite 00:52:16.039 --> 00:52:18.900 of, of the American way of the U S you know, 00:52:18.900 --> 00:52:20.940 individual, the U S soldier, you know, we're, 00:52:20.940 --> 00:52:22.860 we're doing everything in our power to protect 00:52:22.860 --> 00:52:25.380 civilians and, and take out, you know, the enemy, 00:52:25.500 --> 00:52:28.699 unfortunately. you know, things happen, but you 00:52:28.699 --> 00:52:30.619 know, these are, these are, these are not good 00:52:30.619 --> 00:52:35.059 people. And, um, you know, we enjoyed every minute 00:52:35.059 --> 00:52:38.960 of taking, um, you know, taking the fight to, 00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:41.199 to the enemy, if you want to call it that, um, 00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:45.059 without a doubt and more that happened than, 00:52:45.059 --> 00:52:47.239 than any of the bad stuff you hear about a hundred 00:52:47.239 --> 00:52:49.519 percent, you know, there are bits and pieces 00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:52.840 of, of, of things that have happened that, you 00:52:52.840 --> 00:52:56.750 know, may not sit well or. you know, stories 00:52:56.750 --> 00:52:58.769 you hear about, but you don't hear about like 00:52:58.769 --> 00:53:02.170 the thousand other stories that are good, similar 00:53:02.170 --> 00:53:05.289 to, you know, what we're hearing now about, you 00:53:05.289 --> 00:53:07.110 know, law enforcement, you know, law enforcement 00:53:07.110 --> 00:53:10.530 is getting their ass kicked by the public. But 00:53:10.530 --> 00:53:13.150 every, you know, there's always bad apple here 00:53:13.150 --> 00:53:15.329 and there. And, you know, they don't like to 00:53:15.329 --> 00:53:18.030 talk about all the good things that law enforcement 00:53:18.030 --> 00:53:24.510 does for us. And so, yeah, I, you know, I don't 00:53:24.510 --> 00:53:29.500 know. what you're looking for here, but I enjoyed 00:53:29.500 --> 00:53:32.320 every minute of going overseas and fighting alongside 00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:36.559 some of the best individuals that I had the privilege 00:53:36.559 --> 00:53:39.409 to work with. Yeah, no, that's exactly what I'm 00:53:39.409 --> 00:53:41.110 looking for. Just your perspective. Now, the 00:53:41.110 --> 00:53:43.409 other side of the coin is kindness and compassion. 00:53:43.650 --> 00:53:47.289 So again, we get this vision of war being a terrible 00:53:47.289 --> 00:53:49.909 place. We get it painted again with the left 00:53:49.909 --> 00:53:52.690 and the right that we are at war with Iraq, with 00:53:52.690 --> 00:53:55.530 Afghanistan. And the reality is, no, there are 00:53:55.530 --> 00:53:57.570 some extremists in those countries that are terrorizing 00:53:57.570 --> 00:54:00.010 and murdering their own people. And that's who 00:54:00.010 --> 00:54:03.429 our military are hunting down. And amidst that 00:54:03.429 --> 00:54:05.309 seems to be all these amazing stories of kindness 00:54:05.309 --> 00:54:07.329 and compassion that are members of the military 00:54:07.329 --> 00:54:09.469 witness, either within their own, you know, men 00:54:09.469 --> 00:54:11.750 and women or with the people that they're embedded 00:54:11.750 --> 00:54:14.510 with. So were there any moments of kindness and 00:54:14.510 --> 00:54:16.070 compassion that kind of resonate that really 00:54:16.070 --> 00:54:17.730 stuck with you in the time that you were overseas? 00:54:18.570 --> 00:54:21.630 I mean, here, I mean, I hope what I'm about to 00:54:21.630 --> 00:54:25.530 say gets out like to everyone who thinks that. 00:54:26.039 --> 00:54:27.800 uh, we're a bunch of, you know, whatever you 00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:29.739 want to call them, warmongers or baby killers. 00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:33.500 I mean, when, when I used to go out, uh, at night 00:54:33.500 --> 00:54:37.079 on an operation, not just me, like my whole unit, 00:54:37.159 --> 00:54:42.719 um, we literally took time to put chem lights 00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:45.099 in our pockets, like the crack, the ones that 00:54:45.099 --> 00:54:46.960 you crack and you can see at night, like red 00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:50.780 and blue and green. Um, I took extra water. I 00:54:50.780 --> 00:54:56.010 took candy. Um, We took, I mean, anything that 00:54:56.010 --> 00:54:58.010 you can think of that wasn't like, obviously 00:54:58.010 --> 00:55:00.730 like weighing you down, but all these like little 00:55:00.730 --> 00:55:03.989 things that when we did get on a target and there 00:55:03.989 --> 00:55:05.849 were a bunch of women and children, I could crack 00:55:05.849 --> 00:55:07.389 chem lights and give them to the kids to play 00:55:07.389 --> 00:55:09.949 with. You know, I could hand out candy to them. 00:55:10.090 --> 00:55:13.150 I'd hand out water during the day because it 00:55:13.150 --> 00:55:15.210 was so hot over there. And of course we got as 00:55:15.210 --> 00:55:17.969 much as we needed. And who knows, I mean, when 00:55:17.969 --> 00:55:20.230 you see what these people live in, it's, it's 00:55:20.230 --> 00:55:22.650 heartbreaking. We have it so good over here. 00:55:23.039 --> 00:55:25.340 Um, my daughter was just telling me today, we 00:55:25.340 --> 00:55:27.400 walked up to get a cup of coffee right before 00:55:27.400 --> 00:55:30.300 this, um, iced coffee, by the way, almond milk. 00:55:30.900 --> 00:55:34.960 Um, you know, it's just how, how good we have 00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:37.059 it here in the U S when you see, you know, some 00:55:37.059 --> 00:55:40.420 of these other places and like, we didn't have 00:55:40.420 --> 00:55:42.360 to do that. And it wasn't just one person. It 00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:44.920 wasn't just me. It was like everybody, everybody 00:55:44.920 --> 00:55:47.340 was taking chem lights out on target. Everybody 00:55:47.340 --> 00:55:50.210 was taking candy, you know? I was handing out 00:55:50.210 --> 00:55:52.610 water when I was in a turret because I was up 00:55:52.610 --> 00:55:54.269 there and it was just easy to like hand to people. 00:55:55.650 --> 00:55:58.710 We did that all the time. I don't think I've 00:55:58.710 --> 00:56:01.690 ever heard that once mentioned on a news story 00:56:01.690 --> 00:56:06.269 or written anywhere. But, you know, here we are 00:56:06.269 --> 00:56:11.250 about to go after like a high value target. And 00:56:11.250 --> 00:56:14.409 we're at the same time worried about making sure 00:56:14.409 --> 00:56:18.090 we have enough chem lights for the kids. or there's 00:56:18.090 --> 00:56:21.469 some extra water if we need to hand it out. Um, 00:56:21.829 --> 00:56:24.389 yeah. And, and, you know, you're, you're never 00:56:24.389 --> 00:56:27.010 going to hear that. I mean, if you, um, there's 00:56:27.010 --> 00:56:29.710 a friend of mine that I went through a selection 00:56:29.710 --> 00:56:34.030 with, um, he, he was killed in combat, uh, Adam 00:56:34.030 --> 00:56:37.670 Brown. It was a book, uh, written called fearless, 00:56:37.710 --> 00:56:42.670 amazing book, uh, amazing individual. He was 00:56:42.670 --> 00:56:45.550 actually my roommate, uh, BR Brown and Capone 00:56:45.550 --> 00:56:49.300 CA. And so there you go. I got the book. There 00:56:49.300 --> 00:56:54.500 you go. Amazing. Yeah. And I mean, you know the 00:56:54.500 --> 00:56:57.000 story then, right? When he went over to Afghanistan, 00:56:57.099 --> 00:56:58.659 I know it was the first time. I'm going to chop 00:56:58.659 --> 00:57:00.840 this up. So everyone listening, I apologize, 00:57:00.980 --> 00:57:04.159 but I'm going to get most of it right. He noticed 00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:06.519 that there were just tons of kids over there 00:57:06.519 --> 00:57:10.239 without shoes. And he figured out a way to have, 00:57:10.340 --> 00:57:12.179 I don't know how many hundreds of shoes sent 00:57:12.179 --> 00:57:15.019 over. So I probably butchered the number. But 00:57:15.019 --> 00:57:17.119 that's basically what happened. He saw children 00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:20.500 in Afghanistan who didn't have shoes in villages. 00:57:21.079 --> 00:57:23.960 Again, in villages that may have been, I don't 00:57:23.960 --> 00:57:25.780 know if you want to call them good, bad. Maybe 00:57:25.780 --> 00:57:28.760 they're harboring an individual. Maybe a terrorist 00:57:28.760 --> 00:57:31.659 was there. I don't know. But he took it upon 00:57:31.659 --> 00:57:34.519 himself to somehow reach back to the states and 00:57:34.519 --> 00:57:37.639 have a bunch of shoes sent over for these individuals. 00:57:37.980 --> 00:57:41.539 And shit like that happens all the time. I wish 00:57:41.539 --> 00:57:44.659 we could hear about it more because really. And 00:57:44.659 --> 00:57:48.000 everybody I know that has gone over there is 00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:53.940 trying to seek out the enemy and trying to limit 00:57:53.940 --> 00:57:57.380 damage to civilian population on the highest 00:57:57.380 --> 00:58:00.380 level. Yeah, well, thank you for sharing that. 00:58:00.420 --> 00:58:02.400 And that's exactly that. That's the human experience. 00:58:02.739 --> 00:58:05.619 You wore a uniform, I wore a uniform, but we're 00:58:05.619 --> 00:58:07.800 both... We were kids, we were in kindergarten 00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:10.139 once, and then you became a SEAL and I became 00:58:10.139 --> 00:58:11.900 a firefighter, and then we transitioned out. 00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:14.199 And I think that's the problem with some of our 00:58:14.199 --> 00:58:15.960 men and women when they do transition is the 00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:18.500 struggle with identity, especially when they 00:58:18.500 --> 00:58:22.059 come back home. You then, you know, have someone 00:58:22.059 --> 00:58:24.599 who has that baby killer thing or the opposite, 00:58:24.639 --> 00:58:27.079 like, oh, yeah, you know, stacking bodies over 00:58:27.079 --> 00:58:28.739 there and patting you on the shoulder. And it's 00:58:28.739 --> 00:58:30.800 like, no, these are these are human being that 00:58:30.800 --> 00:58:32.500 at times, you know, had to get in a flow state 00:58:32.500 --> 00:58:35.079 and do what you were paid to do. And other times 00:58:35.079 --> 00:58:37.119 showed, you know, moments of incredible kindness 00:58:37.119 --> 00:58:39.900 and compassion. And that's the vision. That's 00:58:39.900 --> 00:58:42.159 the storytelling from our military that we do 00:58:42.159 --> 00:58:44.880 need to hear. Yeah. And I'm telling you right 00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:47.119 now, that's 90 something percent of the individuals. 00:58:47.260 --> 00:58:49.539 Right. Like I said, there's always. bad apples 00:58:49.539 --> 00:58:53.019 but no i mean the majority of individuals i work 00:58:53.019 --> 00:58:57.599 with were literally um they're they're best guy 00:58:57.599 --> 00:59:00.380 best people you could ever imagine that you ever 00:59:00.380 --> 00:59:03.440 want to work with um both intellectually physically 00:59:03.440 --> 00:59:08.340 um all of it so you're already in this you know 00:59:08.340 --> 00:59:10.900 very small percentage of members of the navy 00:59:11.369 --> 00:59:13.789 But then there's obviously another very infamous 00:59:13.789 --> 00:59:16.650 tier one group within the SEAL community. What 00:59:16.650 --> 00:59:18.809 made you decide to test for them? And then, you 00:59:18.809 --> 00:59:21.030 know, what position did you end up holding in 00:59:21.030 --> 00:59:27.829 that organization? Yeah, so, I mean, you know, 00:59:27.829 --> 00:59:31.409 the funny thing is, I guess now at 10 years, 00:59:31.510 --> 00:59:37.050 maybe, we didn't really talk much about SEAL 00:59:37.050 --> 00:59:41.860 Team 6, but it is now a... a public, uh, public 00:59:41.860 --> 00:59:49.099 knowledge. Um, and you, you know, most, uh, most 00:59:49.099 --> 00:59:52.440 individuals that are in special operations, uh, 00:59:52.579 --> 00:59:54.400 at least I didn't know that there was a, uh, 00:59:54.420 --> 00:59:56.019 I didn't even know what a tier one unit was. 00:59:56.500 --> 01:00:00.739 Um, but, uh, when I found out about the tier 01:00:00.739 --> 01:00:02.780 one unit, I just immediately said, okay, I want 01:00:02.780 --> 01:00:05.960 to do that. I didn't know. I don't know that 01:00:05.960 --> 01:00:09.519 this, these guys do, um, they do, you know, other 01:00:09.519 --> 01:00:11.480 things that are, that are, you know, different, 01:00:11.579 --> 01:00:14.880 more focused on certain areas of, of, of, of 01:00:14.880 --> 01:00:18.340 operating. And, um, you know, it's a, it's a 01:00:18.340 --> 01:00:21.780 whole nother selection. And so you go through 01:00:21.780 --> 01:00:25.159 just as much, uh, I don't want to say it's not 01:00:25.159 --> 01:00:26.880 like, it's not like buds where buds are trying 01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:29.719 to test your, your, your physical and mental 01:00:29.719 --> 01:00:32.059 fortitude. You know, this is more on, on skill, 01:00:32.119 --> 01:00:34.980 skill set and how well you react to certain situations 01:00:34.980 --> 01:00:37.920 and how quick you can think. Um, definitely, 01:00:38.139 --> 01:00:43.340 you definitely, um, I would say use your brain 01:00:43.340 --> 01:00:46.159 for, for, for all special operations, but, you 01:00:46.159 --> 01:00:47.760 know, they, they were testing you more on how, 01:00:47.860 --> 01:00:51.539 how well you can react to high stress situations 01:00:51.539 --> 01:00:54.780 and make decisions, make good decisions immediately, 01:00:55.019 --> 01:00:59.139 uh, bad decisions, like a decision. I know there's 01:00:59.139 --> 01:01:00.780 an old, you know, a decision is better than none. 01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:05.219 Uh, I may, I may argue that one. But they want 01:01:05.219 --> 01:01:07.179 to see you make good decisions in high -stress 01:01:07.179 --> 01:01:08.860 situations. So that's another six -month selection 01:01:08.860 --> 01:01:13.960 process that you're running a gun in, shooting, 01:01:14.139 --> 01:01:17.619 jumping. You get graded on everything that you 01:01:17.619 --> 01:01:23.719 do. And at the end of six months, you're standing 01:01:23.719 --> 01:01:28.300 with about 40 individuals that have proven their 01:01:28.300 --> 01:01:36.159 worth, and you move on to different. things all 01:01:36.159 --> 01:01:38.059 right we won't explore that too deeply but uh 01:01:38.059 --> 01:01:39.599 you know obviously again i just want to paint 01:01:39.599 --> 01:01:41.519 the picture that you were at that level i know 01:01:41.519 --> 01:01:43.119 you were breaching you know you're a breacher 01:01:43.119 --> 01:01:46.099 within the organization as well as you progress 01:01:46.099 --> 01:01:48.460 through your career before we get to the transition 01:01:48.460 --> 01:01:53.000 out had you and or amber already seen signs of 01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:55.039 behavioral change whether it's you know initially 01:01:55.039 --> 01:01:59.960 thought as pts or something else yeah um that's 01:01:59.960 --> 01:02:05.150 a good question so each um, each deployment, 01:02:05.210 --> 01:02:08.110 I came back at each combat deployment early after 01:02:08.110 --> 01:02:11.710 nine 11, I came back. Um, you know, it was just, 01:02:11.730 --> 01:02:14.769 it was just different, you know, and, and for 01:02:14.769 --> 01:02:17.349 me, it was just normal because I was just morphing 01:02:17.349 --> 01:02:21.130 right into whatever I ended up. But, you know, 01:02:21.130 --> 01:02:23.469 for Amber and the kids, they obviously can see 01:02:23.469 --> 01:02:25.989 that change pretty radically, especially when 01:02:25.989 --> 01:02:29.050 you're gone for months at a time, you come back 01:02:29.050 --> 01:02:34.360 a new individual. And so uh every time one of 01:02:34.360 --> 01:02:38.219 our guys come home or girls you know you change 01:02:38.219 --> 01:02:43.639 and for some they they're doing that for over 01:02:43.639 --> 01:02:48.699 20 years some at 30 some at 40 um but you know 01:02:48.699 --> 01:02:51.440 20 years of sustained combat that's a lot you 01:02:51.440 --> 01:02:53.840 know our nation's never experienced that and 01:02:53.840 --> 01:02:57.159 i think there's you know i think there's a breaking 01:02:57.159 --> 01:03:00.380 point and there's still there's still people 01:03:00.380 --> 01:03:03.590 out there that will tell you that there's nothing 01:03:03.590 --> 01:03:06.809 wrong with them. And I think everyone's been 01:03:06.809 --> 01:03:09.570 affected in one way or the other. I envy the 01:03:09.570 --> 01:03:11.989 individuals, and I've said this before, you know, 01:03:11.989 --> 01:03:15.309 I envy the individuals that can keep going. You 01:03:15.309 --> 01:03:17.670 know, we're all, you know, we're all tuned differently. 01:03:17.809 --> 01:03:22.429 Some can do 30 and I hope they're fine, they're 01:03:22.429 --> 01:03:25.510 okay. There's others that, you know, they see 01:03:25.510 --> 01:03:29.719 one friend. get killed in action and they're, 01:03:29.800 --> 01:03:32.840 they're suffering for life, you know? And so 01:03:32.840 --> 01:03:35.760 we're all different. I don't, you know, I don't 01:03:35.760 --> 01:03:37.219 want to judge. I think everybody's story should 01:03:37.219 --> 01:03:39.880 be heard. I think we should learn from them, 01:03:39.960 --> 01:03:42.960 but, you know, after 20 years of sustained combat, 01:03:43.199 --> 01:03:46.699 there's, there's a, there's a lot of work to 01:03:46.699 --> 01:03:51.599 be done post military career. And, you know, 01:03:51.599 --> 01:03:54.300 I'm still working on it. And, you know, that 01:03:54.300 --> 01:03:57.179 changed, like I said, if you started it. You 01:03:57.179 --> 01:03:59.800 started at 9 -11 and you're getting out now. 01:04:00.760 --> 01:04:05.960 It's, you know, it's 21 years of change. So you're 01:04:05.960 --> 01:04:11.239 definitely a different human being from September 01:04:11.239 --> 01:04:15.320 11, 01. Well, I mean, it's impossible not to 01:04:15.320 --> 01:04:17.099 change. I mean, if I think of, you know, my career, 01:04:17.099 --> 01:04:19.860 it was only 14 years as a firefighter, but, you 01:04:19.860 --> 01:04:23.440 know, saw and did a lot of things that even... 01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:27.179 though when i look back i was just so fortunate 01:04:27.179 --> 01:04:29.239 so lucky it's no no other way to put it lucky 01:04:29.239 --> 01:04:31.199 to have the upbringing that i had i had some 01:04:31.199 --> 01:04:34.880 childhood trauma but even that the way my childhood 01:04:34.880 --> 01:04:36.860 was there was almost like an ingrained ability 01:04:36.860 --> 01:04:40.019 to process that when i was young so it's there 01:04:40.019 --> 01:04:43.139 but it's not something that's debilitating um 01:04:43.139 --> 01:04:45.840 but there's no way in hell james gearing can 01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:48.239 be the same at 27 when i entered the fire service 01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:51.480 as i am now because Of all the things I've seen, 01:04:51.519 --> 01:04:53.059 all the things I've had to do, getting up, you 01:04:53.059 --> 01:04:54.940 know, I mean, all these tragedy, all these heartbroken 01:04:54.940 --> 01:04:57.059 families that we're exposed to, all the inability 01:04:57.059 --> 01:04:59.940 to save a life. I mean, these all weigh up. So 01:04:59.940 --> 01:05:02.900 you're going to be different. But there's a difference 01:05:02.900 --> 01:05:06.000 between that through line of you just, you know, 01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:09.199 being 20 years older, wiser and, you know, more 01:05:09.199 --> 01:05:12.000 skeptical. But there's another thing with, you 01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:15.440 know, the side effects of other things, PTS and 01:05:15.440 --> 01:05:17.800 trauma. But I think when you talk about some 01:05:17.800 --> 01:05:21.260 people that are able to progress more from all 01:05:21.260 --> 01:05:23.619 these conversations, it seems like, again, a 01:05:23.619 --> 01:05:26.960 common denominator is what did their life look 01:05:26.960 --> 01:05:29.000 like before they put the uniform on? Because 01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:31.559 if you had a lot of shit that was never, ever 01:05:31.559 --> 01:05:34.739 addressed and then you became a cop, a firefighter, 01:05:34.739 --> 01:05:38.739 a SEAL, you're. your foundation is a lot more 01:05:38.739 --> 01:05:42.139 vulnerable than someone like myself who was just 01:05:42.139 --> 01:05:45.940 fucking lucky to not be beaten by this their 01:05:45.940 --> 01:05:47.820 father when they were four i mean i got smacked 01:05:47.820 --> 01:05:49.940 but with a belt and stuff and never maliciously 01:05:49.940 --> 01:05:52.280 and never you know with with a with a close fist 01:05:52.280 --> 01:05:55.639 um and so i think that's a big part too i think 01:05:55.639 --> 01:05:58.480 you know some people are because probably when 01:05:58.480 --> 01:06:00.739 you look at their earlier life it kind of set 01:06:00.739 --> 01:06:02.659 them up for success and i think a lot of people 01:06:02.659 --> 01:06:05.530 that i see that end up with a gun in their hand, 01:06:05.590 --> 01:06:08.269 you know, or in their mouth. When you reverse 01:06:08.269 --> 01:06:10.150 engineer, there's a lot of things that happen 01:06:10.150 --> 01:06:13.869 before they ever put a uniform on. I agree. I 01:06:13.869 --> 01:06:17.570 mean, you're spot on with that. We never ever 01:06:17.570 --> 01:06:20.469 call out anyone, but, you know, we're learning 01:06:20.469 --> 01:06:23.710 that a lot of childhood trauma is what is the 01:06:23.710 --> 01:06:26.250 makeup of a lot of our special operations units 01:06:26.250 --> 01:06:33.880 for whatever reason. And so now, We have that 01:06:33.880 --> 01:06:36.519 childhood trauma and maybe you have some brain 01:06:36.519 --> 01:06:40.599 trauma from contact sports or whatever. And then 01:06:40.599 --> 01:06:46.199 you go in the military and you shoot a ton of 01:06:46.199 --> 01:06:49.179 guns and you're on a lot of explosives and then 01:06:49.179 --> 01:06:51.300 you go to war and you see a bunch of shit that 01:06:51.300 --> 01:06:55.760 most people don't have like you've seen. And 01:06:55.760 --> 01:06:59.699 you then transition out of the military and it's 01:06:59.699 --> 01:07:03.639 like a tornado. It's like a recipe. It's a recipe 01:07:03.639 --> 01:07:08.000 that one day it's going to stop. You go, okay, 01:07:08.039 --> 01:07:10.940 you're done. You start thinking back about all 01:07:10.940 --> 01:07:13.400 these different things that have happened and 01:07:13.400 --> 01:07:16.119 it upsets you and you go, man, I need a drink 01:07:16.119 --> 01:07:18.840 because that's just like, I just thought about 01:07:18.840 --> 01:07:22.219 John Doe or I just thought about this incident. 01:07:22.500 --> 01:07:26.159 That drink puts you in a state of even worse 01:07:26.159 --> 01:07:28.119 depression and you start thinking about it more. 01:07:29.079 --> 01:07:32.949 You're seeing the spiral now. And then it just 01:07:32.949 --> 01:07:35.590 spirals out of control because you're, you know, 01:07:35.590 --> 01:07:38.010 you're numbing from, you know, an incident that 01:07:38.010 --> 01:07:40.250 has happened. But like you said, maybe, you know, 01:07:40.250 --> 01:07:42.969 all that stuff you took on as a child and then 01:07:42.969 --> 01:07:47.750 it just gradually progressed. So recipe for, 01:07:47.789 --> 01:07:51.309 you know, for, for big, big explosion at some 01:07:51.309 --> 01:07:55.019 point. So transition is definitely, again, where 01:07:55.019 --> 01:07:56.519 a lot of people struggle. Like I said, whether 01:07:56.519 --> 01:08:00.900 it's the identity, the lack of purpose that we 01:08:00.900 --> 01:08:04.019 had when we were in the uniform, the lack of 01:08:04.019 --> 01:08:06.019 tribe. You leave that group of men that you were 01:08:06.019 --> 01:08:08.739 serving with for so long. So talk to me about 01:08:08.739 --> 01:08:12.960 when you got to the point where you did transition 01:08:12.960 --> 01:08:14.920 out, and then what was that transition like for 01:08:14.920 --> 01:08:19.140 you? I mean, I was, I mean, I was super excited 01:08:19.140 --> 01:08:22.340 to, to, to transition. Like when I finally realized 01:08:22.340 --> 01:08:24.479 like, I'm, I'm going to, I'm doing something, 01:08:24.539 --> 01:08:30.779 um, different than before. Um, you know, I had, 01:08:30.819 --> 01:08:34.420 it was like, okay, I'm starting a new journey 01:08:34.420 --> 01:08:40.060 here, I guess that'll be okay. And, um, yeah, 01:08:40.159 --> 01:08:42.260 it was just, it was, it was, it was such a struggle. 01:08:42.300 --> 01:08:48.090 It was, uh, I didn't have the tribe. You mentioned 01:08:48.090 --> 01:08:54.029 Sebastian. Sebastian Junger. Yeah. You didn't 01:08:54.029 --> 01:08:56.189 have the tribe. You didn't have your community. 01:08:56.229 --> 01:08:59.310 You didn't have people to lean on. Life was different. 01:09:00.489 --> 01:09:04.630 And at that point, you slow down a little bit. 01:09:06.609 --> 01:09:09.529 My time in the teams were very physical too. 01:09:09.689 --> 01:09:15.039 So I was always running, jumping, fighting. you 01:09:15.039 --> 01:09:18.060 know, very, very physical and, you know, you 01:09:18.060 --> 01:09:19.899 jump into the private sector. If you, you know, 01:09:19.920 --> 01:09:22.380 you put on a shirt and tie, you're, you're, you 01:09:22.380 --> 01:09:24.380 know, it's a very cerebral, more cerebral life. 01:09:24.560 --> 01:09:27.479 And so, you know, you do have time to think about 01:09:27.479 --> 01:09:29.220 a lot of these different things. And a lot of 01:09:29.220 --> 01:09:32.180 these things begin to frustrate you and you don't 01:09:32.180 --> 01:09:35.899 have the outs that you had when you were in the 01:09:35.899 --> 01:09:38.760 military. And so, you know, again, these all 01:09:38.760 --> 01:09:42.960 add up to causing you more stress than probably 01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:46.159 maybe you even have and you don't know how to 01:09:46.159 --> 01:09:48.319 deal with that stress and you know it was it's 01:09:48.319 --> 01:09:50.439 so weird i look back at my time in the military 01:09:50.439 --> 01:09:53.520 like i never remember being like anxious depressed 01:09:53.520 --> 01:09:58.100 um you know upset but you know upset of course 01:09:58.100 --> 01:10:02.640 around individuals that we lost um but the bounce 01:10:02.640 --> 01:10:05.239 back with that was like immediate you know it 01:10:05.239 --> 01:10:08.600 was like celebrate their life move on boom go 01:10:09.180 --> 01:10:11.579 you know, mission driven, like we have, we have 01:10:11.579 --> 01:10:13.000 work to do. This is, this is what's supposed 01:10:13.000 --> 01:10:15.460 to be, you know, like we expect to lose individuals 01:10:15.460 --> 01:10:20.119 in, in times of combat. And so, um, you know, 01:10:20.140 --> 01:10:26.560 or see something bad. Um, but, but once that 01:10:26.560 --> 01:10:32.300 stops and you do have time to reflect, um, at 01:10:32.300 --> 01:10:33.680 least what we're seeing, and I'm sure you've 01:10:33.680 --> 01:10:36.220 seen that's, that's when it starts to creep up 01:10:36.220 --> 01:10:39.829 on you. Um, And then again, we could always go 01:10:39.829 --> 01:10:43.689 back to individuals that have serious head trauma 01:10:43.689 --> 01:10:47.449 or even mild head trauma. The subconcussive blows 01:10:47.449 --> 01:10:50.189 are really affecting the day -to -day living 01:10:50.189 --> 01:10:52.789 for a lot of individuals. And not everybody's 01:10:52.789 --> 01:10:57.470 the same. So one big boom could affect somebody. 01:10:57.689 --> 01:11:00.270 A thousand little booms may affect somebody. 01:11:00.329 --> 01:11:03.010 And then you have everybody in between. And some 01:11:03.010 --> 01:11:05.310 affect more than others. So we can't judge. We 01:11:05.310 --> 01:11:08.359 can't say that. Well, that guy had, you know, 01:11:08.359 --> 01:11:10.659 four grenades go off and he was in eight IDs 01:11:10.659 --> 01:11:14.180 and he's okay. Um, because this other guy, you 01:11:14.180 --> 01:11:16.659 know, hit his head on something, but like, we 01:11:16.659 --> 01:11:18.520 can't judge that. I don't know. I don't know 01:11:18.520 --> 01:11:20.699 how your, your, I don't know your, your brain 01:11:20.699 --> 01:11:23.380 makeup is. I don't know how hard your, your skull 01:11:23.380 --> 01:11:25.920 is. Like, I don't know. That's not, that's not 01:11:25.920 --> 01:11:28.500 for me to judge. And so everybody's, everybody 01:11:28.500 --> 01:11:30.619 deals with it in their own way. And we just got 01:11:30.619 --> 01:11:34.819 to take care of everyone individually. In the 01:11:34.819 --> 01:11:38.199 fire service, I've been to wrecks where we've 01:11:38.199 --> 01:11:40.800 pulled on scene. There's one, someone just abandoned 01:11:40.800 --> 01:11:42.779 their car on a freeway in the middle of the night. 01:11:42.819 --> 01:11:44.220 And in California, actually, it was when I was 01:11:44.220 --> 01:11:46.800 with Anaheim. And this poor couple barreled into 01:11:46.800 --> 01:11:49.399 this parked car in the dark at probably 70, 80 01:11:49.399 --> 01:11:51.760 miles an hour. We pull on scene and we're like, 01:11:51.880 --> 01:11:53.539 shit, I mean, these people have got to be dead. 01:11:53.680 --> 01:11:55.880 And we pull up and these two people walk from. 01:11:56.300 --> 01:11:57.880 you know from the side of the road and they're 01:11:57.880 --> 01:11:59.819 like not only were they fine they didn't even 01:11:59.819 --> 01:12:01.640 want to go anywhere to be checked out they're 01:12:01.640 --> 01:12:03.579 like no we're totally fine we're like jesus christ 01:12:03.579 --> 01:12:06.359 and then i can think of a four -way stop sign 01:12:06.359 --> 01:12:08.399 where someone was drunk and blew through and 01:12:08.399 --> 01:12:11.260 hit this woman didn't seem to be that bad damaged 01:12:11.260 --> 01:12:14.619 in the car and she was dead inside so another 01:12:14.619 --> 01:12:16.979 example of yeah i mean you never know if if a 01:12:16.979 --> 01:12:20.000 trauma is gonna you know, give you a bruise or 01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:23.800 cause an aortic aneurysm and you bleed out in 01:12:23.800 --> 01:12:26.039 10 seconds. So, yeah, I mean, I think that's 01:12:26.039 --> 01:12:28.140 the thing with trauma. We're all different. And 01:12:28.140 --> 01:12:29.779 obviously with the mental health side, we're 01:12:29.779 --> 01:12:32.100 all different. Some of us getting a dog works 01:12:32.100 --> 01:12:35.479 amazingly. Some people need Ibogaine. Yes, some 01:12:35.479 --> 01:12:39.800 do need Ibogaine. So let's get to that then. 01:12:39.859 --> 01:12:42.880 So you transition out. I can see how jarring 01:12:42.880 --> 01:12:45.560 working in finance would be because I talk about 01:12:45.560 --> 01:12:48.420 this quite a bit. There's a sense of kindness 01:12:48.420 --> 01:12:51.140 and compassion that draws us into military police 01:12:51.140 --> 01:12:52.939 fire. We want to help. We want to protect. And 01:12:52.939 --> 01:12:55.340 I think with that childhood trauma element, you 01:12:55.340 --> 01:12:57.300 want to be a protector. You were victimized as 01:12:57.300 --> 01:12:59.260 a child. You want the buck to stop here. You 01:12:59.260 --> 01:13:01.199 want to be the person that protects other people 01:13:01.199 --> 01:13:05.039 from predators. Then you transition out and that 01:13:05.039 --> 01:13:08.000 purpose isn't there as a real estate agent, as 01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:10.840 a financier. And so, you know, I think that's 01:13:10.840 --> 01:13:12.439 when all that stuff comes back. You haven't got 01:13:12.439 --> 01:13:14.380 adrenaline anymore either. You haven't got that, 01:13:14.399 --> 01:13:16.619 you know, excitement that the job brought to 01:13:16.619 --> 01:13:21.859 you. So when did you and or Amber realize, you 01:13:21.859 --> 01:13:23.619 know, you were really spiraling downwards? You 01:13:23.619 --> 01:13:26.420 know, where was that bottom for you? And then 01:13:26.420 --> 01:13:28.439 walk me through your journey into psychedelics. 01:13:33.180 --> 01:13:38.979 It started in, I'd say, 2010 when I left really 01:13:38.979 --> 01:13:42.460 operational duty and we moved to the West Coast, 01:13:42.560 --> 01:13:46.079 became an instructor. And what I thought life 01:13:46.079 --> 01:13:47.680 was going to be good, it just started really 01:13:47.680 --> 01:13:50.340 declining at that moment. I think part of it 01:13:50.340 --> 01:13:52.539 was because I wasn't operational. I was away 01:13:52.539 --> 01:13:55.359 from my guys I had worked with for a number of 01:13:55.359 --> 01:13:59.619 years and probably the busiest time of the war 01:13:59.619 --> 01:14:04.000 from, let's say, 06 to... you know, 2010 or 06, 01:14:04.060 --> 01:14:07.699 2010. And so, you know, it really, it really 01:14:07.699 --> 01:14:11.439 started there. I was put on my first antidepressant 01:14:11.439 --> 01:14:16.399 in 2010 while on active duty. And when I was 01:14:16.399 --> 01:14:20.100 medically retired in 2013, it just, you know, 01:14:20.100 --> 01:14:23.520 that effect kind of just kept trickling and, 01:14:23.539 --> 01:14:26.710 you know, I kept fighting it. I just kept. you 01:14:26.710 --> 01:14:29.050 know, thinking I, this is, there's nothing here. 01:14:29.109 --> 01:14:31.189 I could work through this, but, you know, from 01:14:31.189 --> 01:14:33.710 outsiders looking in now, and I talked to individuals, 01:14:33.930 --> 01:14:36.430 of course, that I know, and including, you know, 01:14:36.430 --> 01:14:38.630 Amber and the kids, yeah, it was horrible for 01:14:38.630 --> 01:14:43.689 them. You know, it was like, and I would say 01:14:43.689 --> 01:14:49.689 I was separated. 2013, I was out and, you know, 01:14:49.689 --> 01:14:52.970 slowly got worse with just heavier drinking, 01:14:53.029 --> 01:14:59.039 more numbing. you know, coping with, uh, life 01:14:59.039 --> 01:15:01.720 that I just didn't think was really meaningful 01:15:01.720 --> 01:15:06.420 at the time. Um, Amber had started looking into 01:15:06.420 --> 01:15:10.000 some brain clinics. Um, there was some, there 01:15:10.000 --> 01:15:11.899 was some money available and we spent a lot of 01:15:11.899 --> 01:15:13.600 money out of pocket, uh, just trying to figure 01:15:13.600 --> 01:15:15.840 out like if there's anything wrong with my head. 01:15:16.600 --> 01:15:20.840 Um, and we did, and we found some, some, there 01:15:20.840 --> 01:15:24.829 was some, um, there's some scarring. I was able 01:15:24.829 --> 01:15:29.210 to go luckily enough to Amen Clinic, which was, 01:15:29.229 --> 01:15:32.270 they do spec scans and showed some areas of the 01:15:32.270 --> 01:15:34.710 brain where I didn't have a blood flow that were, 01:15:34.770 --> 01:15:37.329 you know, supposed to, supposed to be working. 01:15:37.750 --> 01:15:42.850 And there were also some markers for, you know, 01:15:42.890 --> 01:15:46.649 PTSD and depression. And I guess I'm going to 01:15:46.649 --> 01:15:49.430 say bipolar two, which I don't like to say because 01:15:49.430 --> 01:15:53.479 it's a miss, it's a very missed diagnosed. thing. 01:15:53.539 --> 01:15:56.619 So there's, there's a therapist that still argues 01:15:56.619 --> 01:16:00.960 that. So I'm going to side with her because she 01:16:00.960 --> 01:16:04.300 knew me really well. And so, you know, just had 01:16:04.300 --> 01:16:06.939 all these things that were showing up and happening 01:16:06.939 --> 01:16:10.819 and I was getting angrier and I was getting really 01:16:10.819 --> 01:16:13.579 frustrated at the system. I was just like trusting 01:16:13.579 --> 01:16:15.560 the system, the Western medicine approach of 01:16:15.560 --> 01:16:19.430 like, here's, you know, you have medical insurance. 01:16:19.630 --> 01:16:21.409 And so here's the drugs that you need because 01:16:21.409 --> 01:16:24.630 you have PTSD. Um, that's the, that's what the 01:16:24.630 --> 01:16:27.310 military told me. Um, major depressive disorder, 01:16:27.510 --> 01:16:34.789 MDD, um, alcohol abuse disorder, um, in a host 01:16:34.789 --> 01:16:37.069 of other things. And so you get these cocktails 01:16:37.069 --> 01:16:42.390 of, of, uh, antidepressants, SSRIs and some anti, 01:16:42.409 --> 01:16:46.489 anti -anxiety, uh, medication, uh, some medicines 01:16:46.489 --> 01:16:52.369 that, help you avoid nightmares. And then, you 01:16:52.369 --> 01:16:55.329 know, medicines that help you think clearer or 01:16:55.329 --> 01:16:58.930 focus more. So things like Adderall and there's 01:16:58.930 --> 01:17:01.449 these two others that I was put on, I forgot 01:17:01.449 --> 01:17:03.569 the name of them, but they used to give me really 01:17:03.569 --> 01:17:09.510 bad headaches. Anyway. And then also of course, 01:17:09.529 --> 01:17:12.250 Ambien to sleep and then tried a few others because, 01:17:12.289 --> 01:17:14.109 you know, I was concerned about Ambien. I said, 01:17:14.189 --> 01:17:18.250 Hey, I use Ambien for many years while on active 01:17:18.250 --> 01:17:23.189 duty. And I know it's, I mean, it's not good 01:17:23.189 --> 01:17:27.430 for you. Dr. Kirk Parsley will tell you all about 01:17:27.430 --> 01:17:34.010 that. And this is just not the way to live, James. 01:17:34.590 --> 01:17:39.029 And I was at a point where I was, I thought Amber 01:17:39.029 --> 01:17:42.250 and the kids would be better off, excuse me, 01:17:42.250 --> 01:17:44.510 better off without me here because I felt like 01:17:44.510 --> 01:17:48.069 I was this burden. of, you know, everything was 01:17:48.069 --> 01:17:52.170 for dad, you know, all everything we had to do 01:17:52.170 --> 01:17:56.170 was around what I needed. Um, you know, I'm not 01:17:56.170 --> 01:17:59.489 in a good mood. Everyone had to walk on eggshells 01:17:59.489 --> 01:18:02.430 and I was, you know, snapping at everything. 01:18:02.590 --> 01:18:05.710 I was angry. It was throwing things through our, 01:18:05.729 --> 01:18:09.909 our, our windows at the house. Um, and then completely 01:18:09.909 --> 01:18:12.649 reckless came to a point where I couldn't care 01:18:12.649 --> 01:18:18.159 less if you were law enforcement or it just didn't 01:18:18.159 --> 01:18:22.119 matter like i just didn't care you know i was 01:18:22.119 --> 01:18:24.760 like what matters like what i used to do in the 01:18:24.760 --> 01:18:29.079 past mattered you know i had purpose there um 01:18:29.079 --> 01:18:31.520 i was with a group of people who had purpose 01:18:31.520 --> 01:18:33.880 and we were all fighting for the same thing and 01:18:33.880 --> 01:18:37.119 now it's like what is this private sector life 01:18:37.119 --> 01:18:41.340 it um it's just it's bullshit you know everyone's 01:18:41.340 --> 01:18:44.539 selling some widget or some service that may 01:18:44.539 --> 01:18:47.079 be good, maybe not. Most of the times it was 01:18:47.079 --> 01:18:50.319 honestly bullshit. Individuals were bullshit. 01:18:50.939 --> 01:18:55.340 And so that was tough to, that was also, you 01:18:55.340 --> 01:18:58.680 know, part of the, part of the issue. And to 01:18:58.680 --> 01:19:03.180 a little of my knowledge, Amber and Kirk Parsley 01:19:03.180 --> 01:19:05.020 were working in the background for about a year 01:19:05.020 --> 01:19:10.399 to get me to go do this. What I thought at the 01:19:10.399 --> 01:19:15.880 time was, Pretty insane, crazy sounding. I don't 01:19:15.880 --> 01:19:18.920 call it experimental because I don't think you 01:19:18.920 --> 01:19:20.640 could experiment on stuff for thousands of years. 01:19:20.739 --> 01:19:25.300 It was highly proven. We just didn't do enough 01:19:25.300 --> 01:19:29.640 double -blind placebo clinical trials at academic 01:19:29.640 --> 01:19:33.560 institutions. We reviewed and we had to make 01:19:33.560 --> 01:19:35.539 sure that they were done correctly and spend 01:19:35.539 --> 01:19:38.859 probably about a billion dollars. Once you get 01:19:38.859 --> 01:19:40.640 to like phase three or at least a hundred million, 01:19:40.720 --> 01:19:44.939 150 million and up with your faith phase three 01:19:44.939 --> 01:19:48.920 trials. And so if it didn't do that, then these 01:19:48.920 --> 01:19:56.899 don't, these don't matter. And I just committed. 01:19:57.020 --> 01:19:59.220 It was, there was a point, it was finally at 01:19:59.220 --> 01:20:02.039 a point where I couldn't take it anymore. Amber 01:20:02.039 --> 01:20:04.899 and the kids couldn't take it anymore. You know, 01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:06.760 we weren't going to stay together. Like we were, 01:20:08.010 --> 01:20:09.909 you know, we were ready to part ways. Like we 01:20:09.909 --> 01:20:12.890 had to, it was not, you know, at that point it 01:20:12.890 --> 01:20:14.630 was, Amber had to do more for the kids. Like 01:20:14.630 --> 01:20:16.670 she had to take care of the kids. Like she, they 01:20:16.670 --> 01:20:18.310 were, they were all living with an individual 01:20:18.310 --> 01:20:21.350 that really wasn't a husband, a dad, you know, 01:20:21.350 --> 01:20:25.829 it was just a pain in the ass. And, you know, 01:20:25.850 --> 01:20:27.869 I said, you know what, I've done enough research 01:20:27.869 --> 01:20:31.850 on this now. And I understand that these medicines 01:20:31.850 --> 01:20:34.529 were initially intended for, you know, psycho 01:20:34.529 --> 01:20:39.859 -spiritual growth. for a host of, of, of, uh, 01:20:40.140 --> 01:20:43.640 you know, things, uh, wrong with the body, uh, 01:20:43.720 --> 01:20:46.939 both mind and body and, and spiritual too. Right. 01:20:47.000 --> 01:20:48.659 So these medicines have been used for thousands 01:20:48.659 --> 01:20:55.100 of years, um, for spiritual connection. And I, 01:20:55.279 --> 01:20:57.439 you know, I kind of took a leap of faith. Um, 01:20:57.520 --> 01:20:59.500 I always joke that I'm a Guinea pig. I'll do 01:20:59.500 --> 01:21:01.220 anything. If you tell me it's going to make me 01:21:01.220 --> 01:21:05.539 bigger, faster, stronger, smarter, better. Um, 01:21:05.640 --> 01:21:09.340 yeah, sign me up. I'll try, as a friend of mine 01:21:09.340 --> 01:21:14.680 says, I'll try anything twice. It's his line 01:21:14.680 --> 01:21:19.619 though, not mine. And I went out of the country 01:21:19.619 --> 01:21:23.539 to do a psychedelic medicine called Ibogaine, 01:21:23.579 --> 01:21:29.340 which is synthesized from, I don't know if that's 01:21:29.340 --> 01:21:32.600 the right term, but it's an alkaloid of the Iboga 01:21:32.600 --> 01:21:36.850 plant. Um, I believe Boga gets to about 10 feet 01:21:36.850 --> 01:21:40.850 and they have some, you know, they have big, 01:21:40.970 --> 01:21:44.250 big, you know, bush leaves and these fruits that 01:21:44.250 --> 01:21:46.869 grow off the leaves, but at the base of it is, 01:21:46.970 --> 01:21:49.470 uh, the root. And they take the outside of the 01:21:49.470 --> 01:21:53.069 root bark off and then they shave down, uh, the, 01:21:53.250 --> 01:21:57.510 the, the root itself and, or like the, the wood 01:21:57.510 --> 01:22:01.050 part of it. And that's called Iboga. And I believe 01:22:01.050 --> 01:22:06.539 there's 13 alkalis. The most prevalent in there 01:22:06.539 --> 01:22:10.579 is Ibogaine. And Ibogaine is what is really, 01:22:10.640 --> 01:22:12.720 I believe, exploding right now in popularity 01:22:12.720 --> 01:22:15.840 because of its, one, its anti -addictive properties. 01:22:16.560 --> 01:22:22.739 Nothing comes close to anything for an opioid 01:22:22.739 --> 01:22:26.380 heroin addict. It completely scrubs receptors 01:22:26.380 --> 01:22:29.619 and the efficacy rates are through the roof. 01:22:30.840 --> 01:22:32.939 You know, pharma doesn't want to hear that somebody 01:22:32.939 --> 01:22:36.619 has to take something once or twice without any 01:22:36.619 --> 01:22:40.720 withdrawal symptoms. So, I mean, Iboga and Ibogaine 01:22:40.720 --> 01:22:47.140 are just like a unbelievably healing and curing. 01:22:47.239 --> 01:22:49.779 I'll say curing. I don't know. I suppose you're 01:22:49.779 --> 01:22:53.859 not supposed to use that term. Medicine. And 01:22:53.859 --> 01:22:58.060 that's just for addiction. For trauma, you know. 01:22:58.460 --> 01:23:01.020 We've been doing this now for five years. I haven't 01:23:01.020 --> 01:23:06.720 heard anything that, you know, there are psychedelic 01:23:06.720 --> 01:23:08.739 medicines that are really powerful and really 01:23:08.739 --> 01:23:11.300 working. Things like ayahuasca and psilocybin, 01:23:11.420 --> 01:23:16.100 you know, DMT and others that are fantastic. 01:23:16.460 --> 01:23:18.180 And of course, MDMA, which will be federally 01:23:18.180 --> 01:23:21.220 legalized first for PTSD. These drugs are great 01:23:21.220 --> 01:23:24.140 and they're working really well. But if you want 01:23:24.140 --> 01:23:27.199 the nuclear option, you go to Ibogaine. or iboga 01:23:27.199 --> 01:23:30.420 it's not a fun journey um it's going to kick 01:23:30.420 --> 01:23:33.520 your ass and but you're going to come out the 01:23:33.520 --> 01:23:36.439 other side whole again and reset and with a new 01:23:36.439 --> 01:23:40.600 kind of from any life purpose and mission um 01:23:40.600 --> 01:23:45.000 and so uh that's what happened to me i mean i 01:23:45.000 --> 01:23:49.039 i committed to the medicine um it's about a 12 01:23:49.039 --> 01:23:54.680 hour really tough uh experience where you it's 01:23:54.680 --> 01:23:57.670 it's almost like it's like a it's like a movie 01:23:57.670 --> 01:24:00.029 of your life right in front of your eyes and 01:24:00.029 --> 01:24:03.869 the medicine knows how to work um you even though 01:24:03.869 --> 01:24:07.289 you go in there with certain intentions um if 01:24:07.289 --> 01:24:09.250 you're hiding some of those intentions or you're 01:24:09.250 --> 01:24:11.689 you're you have you have other things that are 01:24:11.689 --> 01:24:15.229 causing blockages in your life ibogaine is going 01:24:15.229 --> 01:24:17.340 to go find those and you're going to face those 01:24:17.340 --> 01:24:20.159 demons throughout in during your journey. And 01:24:20.159 --> 01:24:22.340 as you can imagine, opening up those floodgates 01:24:22.340 --> 01:24:24.300 can be really difficult and traumatic for people. 01:24:24.939 --> 01:24:28.300 But as we all know, the only way to fight fear 01:24:28.300 --> 01:24:36.600 is through and you, you have to face those fears 01:24:36.600 --> 01:24:40.329 in order to grow. And so, you know, if you had 01:24:40.329 --> 01:24:42.569 some of those childhood traumas that are affecting 01:24:42.569 --> 01:24:45.170 you later in your life, you got to go back and 01:24:45.170 --> 01:24:47.409 face those childhood traumas again. You know, 01:24:47.430 --> 01:24:49.229 that's what therapists pull out of you. That's 01:24:49.229 --> 01:24:50.590 what you're supposed to get to when you're doing 01:24:50.590 --> 01:24:52.909 talk therapy or, you know, some of the other 01:24:52.909 --> 01:24:56.789 treatments that you do with therapists, but it 01:24:56.789 --> 01:24:59.890 could take years. Psychedelics done correctly 01:24:59.890 --> 01:25:03.510 can potentially take, you know, days, weeks, 01:25:03.630 --> 01:25:08.100 months, but they happen pretty quickly. It's 01:25:08.100 --> 01:25:12.399 like a time machine to get better. Well, it's 01:25:12.399 --> 01:25:14.279 amazing to hear, and I've had so many people 01:25:14.279 --> 01:25:16.479 on the show that I think have gone through you. 01:25:16.680 --> 01:25:19.039 So we've got Jeff Nichols, Dan Cirillo, Nick 01:25:19.039 --> 01:25:21.439 Norris, Johnny Walker. I mean, the list goes 01:25:21.439 --> 01:25:24.340 on and on and on. So people can hear these testimonies 01:25:24.340 --> 01:25:27.840 of these elite operators that initially thought 01:25:27.840 --> 01:25:30.640 they were bulletproof and superheroes and then 01:25:30.640 --> 01:25:35.199 reconnected with their humanity. struggled you 01:25:35.199 --> 01:25:37.279 know it's used alcohol used opiates and then 01:25:37.279 --> 01:25:40.380 found ibogaine and you know it's just absolutely 01:25:40.380 --> 01:25:43.140 amazing to hear it now i want to circle around 01:25:43.140 --> 01:25:44.640 to something you said quickly because this is 01:25:44.640 --> 01:25:47.460 again a kind of revolution a revolution a revelation 01:25:47.460 --> 01:25:51.439 i had earlier on when people talk about suicide 01:25:51.439 --> 01:25:54.020 there's always this conversation of cowardice 01:25:54.020 --> 01:25:55.920 how could they you know how could they leave 01:25:55.920 --> 01:25:58.020 their family behind you know what what a coward 01:25:58.020 --> 01:26:01.460 you talked about being a burden that's the huge 01:26:01.460 --> 01:26:04.750 kind of perspective that lends into into the 01:26:04.750 --> 01:26:08.609 broken mind is just that so many of these men 01:26:08.609 --> 01:26:11.229 and women get to the point where they feel like 01:26:11.229 --> 01:26:14.649 they're a burden so the selfless thing even though 01:26:14.649 --> 01:26:16.869 it makes no sense to a healthy mind to their 01:26:16.869 --> 01:26:19.750 mind at that moment in time the selfless thing 01:26:19.750 --> 01:26:21.989 is to remove yourself from your family because 01:26:21.989 --> 01:26:24.250 you feel like such a burden you feel like you're 01:26:24.250 --> 01:26:26.310 ruining their life so was that what you were 01:26:26.310 --> 01:26:30.710 feeling at that moment i mean a hundred percent 01:26:31.149 --> 01:26:34.329 I mean, I wasn't thinking about me. I mean, I 01:26:34.329 --> 01:26:37.489 was thinking about me that I had nothing to really 01:26:37.489 --> 01:26:39.609 live for, but I was really thinking about Amber 01:26:39.609 --> 01:26:42.710 and the kids just going, well, if I remove myself 01:26:42.710 --> 01:26:46.470 from this situation, then they don't have to 01:26:46.470 --> 01:26:49.829 deal with me anymore, which is causing them to 01:26:49.829 --> 01:26:53.369 be stuck in their mind, body, and life. And so 01:26:53.369 --> 01:26:58.710 if I remove myself, then they can flourish. Amber 01:26:58.710 --> 01:27:01.529 can find somebody that... you know, she would 01:27:01.529 --> 01:27:03.890 be, you know, a better husband to her, you know, 01:27:03.890 --> 01:27:07.229 and then the kids could, could not have this, 01:27:07.229 --> 01:27:09.930 this, this father that was just judgmental and 01:27:09.930 --> 01:27:13.210 just not, you know, not that I was ever like 01:27:13.210 --> 01:27:16.149 bad to the kids, but I was still like not present. 01:27:16.510 --> 01:27:18.050 You know, I still didn't have a relationship. 01:27:19.189 --> 01:27:23.890 And I thought, well, if I'm not here, then, then 01:27:23.890 --> 01:27:28.170 all these great things can happen for them. And. 01:27:29.000 --> 01:27:31.840 yeah, maybe I'll be missed, maybe not, but they'll 01:27:31.840 --> 01:27:34.840 go on and live this like fruitful life. And that's 01:27:34.840 --> 01:27:37.279 kind of the way I was rationalizing it. And, 01:27:37.340 --> 01:27:39.520 you know, God forbid, I run into somebody that 01:27:39.520 --> 01:27:42.159 ever says somebody who takes their life is cowardice. 01:27:42.220 --> 01:27:45.060 And I remember individuals that I worked with. 01:27:45.079 --> 01:27:49.399 I remember you, you would hear that. And, and 01:27:49.399 --> 01:27:52.399 I would agree with that just because like, uh 01:27:52.399 --> 01:27:54.500 what do you call it when when it's a group think 01:27:54.500 --> 01:27:56.760 is that what it is group think when yeah yeah 01:27:56.760 --> 01:27:59.539 when yeah yeah yeah yeah oh yeah yeah yeah yeah 01:27:59.539 --> 01:28:01.159 but it really you're not really you're not even 01:28:01.159 --> 01:28:03.699 understanding or really thinking about what they're 01:28:03.699 --> 01:28:06.199 saying you're just in this group and everyone's 01:28:06.199 --> 01:28:12.020 kind of agreeing um but no uh it's the it's it's 01:28:12.020 --> 01:28:16.300 the opposite i mean you know these individuals 01:28:16.300 --> 01:28:21.079 who take their lives are some of the toughest 01:28:22.220 --> 01:28:23.899 you know, some of the toughest people on the 01:28:23.899 --> 01:28:27.979 planet, there's real shit going on. You're not 01:28:27.979 --> 01:28:32.100 thinking clearly. It's not rational thinking, 01:28:32.220 --> 01:28:37.340 or maybe if it is rational thinking, it's, they're 01:28:37.340 --> 01:28:41.300 doing it to what they think in their mind may 01:28:41.300 --> 01:28:43.859 make it easier for others. Right. If they're 01:28:43.859 --> 01:28:47.520 not, if they're not here, it is not cowardice. 01:28:48.479 --> 01:28:54.060 It's, it just, it just is. And unfortunately, 01:28:54.340 --> 01:29:03.140 they feel that the system may have shorted them. 01:29:03.399 --> 01:29:06.199 They may not feel like they're getting the help 01:29:06.199 --> 01:29:10.000 they need, or they are in so much pain, either 01:29:10.000 --> 01:29:15.319 physically and or mentally, that they just can't 01:29:15.319 --> 01:29:18.739 take it anymore. And I don't know how that is 01:29:18.739 --> 01:29:23.770 carotid. Because I know some really good people 01:29:23.770 --> 01:29:26.529 that took their lives and I would never, I would 01:29:26.529 --> 01:29:29.529 consider them the most like hardened warriors 01:29:29.529 --> 01:29:33.409 that I've ever worked with. So it saddens me 01:29:33.409 --> 01:29:35.890 when, and most of those individuals who say it 01:29:35.890 --> 01:29:37.850 are just, they don't get it or they're just not 01:29:37.850 --> 01:29:39.750 experiencing it. And I understand the part that 01:29:39.750 --> 01:29:42.289 they're not experiencing it. I know plenty of 01:29:42.289 --> 01:29:44.369 guys who say, I don't understand this PTSD thing. 01:29:44.449 --> 01:29:48.470 I don't have any. Well, my next question, and 01:29:48.470 --> 01:29:52.039 I usually just, I don't say anything, but. You 01:29:52.039 --> 01:29:57.020 know, it's, you know, how much did you actually 01:29:57.020 --> 01:29:59.220 do? You know, how many times have you stuck your 01:29:59.220 --> 01:30:01.920 face in front of a, in front of a door? How many 01:30:01.920 --> 01:30:03.579 times you've been on the receiving end of gunfire? 01:30:04.380 --> 01:30:07.539 How many friends did you bury? You know, I could 01:30:07.539 --> 01:30:11.819 go on and on and on. And, you know, again, I, 01:30:11.899 --> 01:30:14.439 I envy those folks. You're, you're a lot tougher 01:30:14.439 --> 01:30:16.720 than I am. Well, I would ask him how much you 01:30:16.720 --> 01:30:19.939 drink at night. Yeah, I mean, that's probably 01:30:19.939 --> 01:30:23.720 a real look in the mirror. If you say you're 01:30:23.720 --> 01:30:25.939 good, but then you have to dive into the bottle 01:30:25.939 --> 01:30:28.699 every evening, you're probably not good. Yeah, 01:30:28.739 --> 01:30:32.039 you're probably not. And I am finding out that 01:30:32.039 --> 01:30:35.359 there are more and more individuals that do need 01:30:35.359 --> 01:30:38.680 help and just haven't asked for it yet or just 01:30:38.680 --> 01:30:43.220 haven't come to the grips that there's something 01:30:43.220 --> 01:30:48.039 wrong there. And you know what? okay to raise 01:30:48.039 --> 01:30:50.079 your hand and say hey man i need to time out 01:30:50.079 --> 01:30:52.699 or i just need it i need a tune -up because it's 01:30:52.699 --> 01:30:56.140 okay when your shoulder's blown out to go see 01:30:56.140 --> 01:30:58.340 every specialist in the world to get you back 01:30:58.340 --> 01:31:04.039 you know um firefighting on the front lines going 01:31:04.039 --> 01:31:06.960 after terrorists you know you'll you'll go see 01:31:06.960 --> 01:31:09.819 the best doctors they'll cut you open they'll 01:31:09.819 --> 01:31:13.380 tie you up you'll do rehab forever And everyone 01:31:13.380 --> 01:31:14.779 would just say, oh, yeah, you know, he's just 01:31:14.779 --> 01:31:16.279 getting his shoulder worked on. He's going to 01:31:16.279 --> 01:31:18.199 be back. He's going to be fine. But you raise 01:31:18.199 --> 01:31:19.779 your hand and say, you know what? There's something 01:31:19.779 --> 01:31:22.239 going on between my ears. Like there's just something 01:31:22.239 --> 01:31:24.239 not right. Like I'm getting headaches or I'm 01:31:24.239 --> 01:31:28.279 forgetting stuff or I'm really angry, you know, 01:31:28.279 --> 01:31:33.020 or I'm depressed. You know, now you're a cuckoo. 01:31:33.239 --> 01:31:36.819 You're damaged. And all you want to do maybe 01:31:36.819 --> 01:31:38.859 is go get a tune up. Go get your head worked 01:31:38.859 --> 01:31:43.520 on. Maybe go get some. Go get some. some imaging 01:31:43.520 --> 01:31:47.619 done, you know, maybe talk to some folks. Maybe, 01:31:47.739 --> 01:31:51.140 you know, you just, you just need, you know, 01:31:51.140 --> 01:31:53.039 you just need to go to someone who, who understands 01:31:53.039 --> 01:31:57.000 your, your, your brain and help you, you know, 01:31:57.000 --> 01:31:59.760 help you fix it. And then maybe you can get back 01:31:59.760 --> 01:32:01.560 to where you need to go. Maybe it's back in the 01:32:01.560 --> 01:32:03.560 fight. Maybe it's doing something totally different. 01:32:03.619 --> 01:32:06.140 Maybe it's just trying to be a normal, you know, 01:32:06.159 --> 01:32:09.340 human being, a dad, husband, wife, or whatever. 01:32:12.020 --> 01:32:13.779 So, you know, that's what I'm trying to do. I 01:32:13.779 --> 01:32:15.060 think that's what we're trying to do is break 01:32:15.060 --> 01:32:20.239 this stigma of, of just asking for some, just 01:32:20.239 --> 01:32:22.880 for some, some help, a little bit of empathy, 01:32:22.939 --> 01:32:27.260 you know, maybe if you're not, you're not here 01:32:27.260 --> 01:32:29.300 yet, but understand that you're still the same 01:32:29.300 --> 01:32:31.239 person. You're just going through some stuff 01:32:31.239 --> 01:32:34.659 and you'd like to work on it. I don't think that's 01:32:34.659 --> 01:32:37.399 bad. Absolutely not. Well, I think that's why 01:32:37.399 --> 01:32:40.000 the messaging needs to be You hear people say, 01:32:40.060 --> 01:32:42.220 oh, think about your family. We'll say that to 01:32:42.220 --> 01:32:43.699 someone who thinks that they're a burden to their 01:32:43.699 --> 01:32:46.180 family. You just kind of put the final nail in 01:32:46.180 --> 01:32:48.819 the coffin. So I think we need to get people 01:32:48.819 --> 01:32:51.380 to realize if you feel like a burden, if you're 01:32:51.380 --> 01:32:53.960 having that self -talk that the world would be 01:32:53.960 --> 01:32:56.979 better off without you. then that's the red flag. 01:32:57.039 --> 01:32:59.239 If your family see that from the outside, that's 01:32:59.239 --> 01:33:00.840 the red flag that we need to go because there 01:33:00.840 --> 01:33:03.960 was no more heartbreaking story than we had in 01:33:03.960 --> 01:33:06.819 Florida about two months ago where we had a male 01:33:06.819 --> 01:33:09.460 police officer take his own life. And then I 01:33:09.460 --> 01:33:11.239 think it was a week later, his girlfriend took 01:33:11.239 --> 01:33:14.239 her own life and they had a brand new baby with 01:33:14.239 --> 01:33:16.399 no parents. And people are like, well, how could 01:33:16.399 --> 01:33:18.460 they do that? Exactly, because you're thinking 01:33:18.460 --> 01:33:21.100 with a normal, healthy brain and trying to get 01:33:21.100 --> 01:33:23.619 inside the head of someone who was in crisis. 01:33:23.760 --> 01:33:25.479 And it just doesn't, you can't think that way. 01:33:25.600 --> 01:33:28.579 So the moment that that makes sense, that removing 01:33:28.579 --> 01:33:31.479 yourself from this world will make it better 01:33:31.479 --> 01:33:33.619 when actually the reality is the complete opposite. 01:33:33.800 --> 01:33:36.739 The moment you have those thoughts, that's exactly 01:33:36.739 --> 01:33:38.279 where you need to put your hand. If not before, 01:33:38.460 --> 01:33:41.359 put your hand up and say, I need help. This is 01:33:41.359 --> 01:33:44.319 in a really bad place now. And I know plenty 01:33:44.319 --> 01:33:45.720 of people that have done it. You know, I know 01:33:45.720 --> 01:33:47.819 plenty of people that have, that have, you know, 01:33:47.819 --> 01:33:49.779 checked themselves into facilities or at least 01:33:49.779 --> 01:33:52.020 called a friend or just something to say, Hey, 01:33:52.020 --> 01:33:54.039 I'm just, I'm not right. Or given their guns 01:33:54.039 --> 01:33:58.859 away, you know, just all of all the above. And, 01:33:59.039 --> 01:34:00.699 you know, most of those individuals are doing 01:34:00.699 --> 01:34:03.979 really, really well now. Right. So they, they 01:34:03.979 --> 01:34:06.819 needed, you talked to all of them on, on your 01:34:06.819 --> 01:34:08.920 show, all the, all the individuals you mentioned. 01:34:09.239 --> 01:34:11.579 You know, I won't say anything they didn't, but 01:34:11.579 --> 01:34:13.300 I'm sure they said the same thing. They were 01:34:13.300 --> 01:34:19.340 at their lows and, you know, they, they searched 01:34:19.340 --> 01:34:22.340 for answers and they found them. And now they're 01:34:22.340 --> 01:34:25.359 freaking, all those guys are killing it. Like 01:34:25.359 --> 01:34:28.199 they're all doing so well. It's like, it's incredible. 01:34:29.520 --> 01:34:31.460 It's really incredible how, how well they're 01:34:31.460 --> 01:34:33.920 doing. And I'm just, I'm super pumped to know 01:34:33.920 --> 01:34:37.319 that this is just another thing that we need 01:34:37.319 --> 01:34:39.380 to take care of. A really good, I joke, you know, 01:34:39.380 --> 01:34:40.880 I've said this a million times, we're really 01:34:40.880 --> 01:34:43.539 good at taking protein and creatine and, you 01:34:43.539 --> 01:34:46.760 know, NO2 and all this, these other things that 01:34:46.760 --> 01:34:48.899 you put in your body to like work out and run 01:34:48.899 --> 01:34:52.220 faster and lift more weights. But we forget to 01:34:52.220 --> 01:34:55.399 do the stuff for our brains that really operate 01:34:55.399 --> 01:35:00.439 everything. You know, it is the, it is the platform 01:35:00.439 --> 01:35:02.579 that operates everything else. And so, you know, 01:35:02.579 --> 01:35:06.340 we do need to take time to do nothing, you know, 01:35:06.340 --> 01:35:13.920 meditate. take supplements that help just feed 01:35:13.920 --> 01:35:17.460 it what it needs in order to work better or maintain. 01:35:18.100 --> 01:35:21.979 Absolutely. Well, so the... Project I'm Doing 01:35:21.979 --> 01:35:23.939 With Ryan, the human performance project in the 01:35:23.939 --> 01:35:27.960 7X, that was inspired tragically by the loss 01:35:27.960 --> 01:35:30.579 of Ryan's sniper partner, David Metcalf. I'm 01:35:30.579 --> 01:35:32.319 going to get Jamie on the show to tell his story 01:35:32.319 --> 01:35:34.920 too. Another person who's been on the show is 01:35:34.920 --> 01:35:38.819 Sarah Wilkinson, who lost Chad. Obviously, another 01:35:38.819 --> 01:35:41.000 resounding element, as we touched on earlier, 01:35:41.119 --> 01:35:45.300 was TBI. So I think Jeff Nichols is someone who 01:35:45.300 --> 01:35:48.199 talks about that as well. You went through all 01:35:48.199 --> 01:35:50.380 this, as you said, it was identified as PTSD. 01:35:50.760 --> 01:35:53.880 Talk to me about the TBI, excuse me, the TBI 01:35:53.880 --> 01:35:57.659 element, how you're finding, you know, Ibogaine 01:35:57.659 --> 01:35:59.520 and some other psychedelics as treatment and 01:35:59.520 --> 01:36:02.560 how that's being misdiagnosed sometimes as purely 01:36:02.560 --> 01:36:07.960 PTSD. Yeah. So, you know, just the, you know, 01:36:07.979 --> 01:36:09.939 the people you just mentioned, you know, Dave 01:36:09.939 --> 01:36:12.239 and Metcalf, we were, you know, we went to Bud's 01:36:12.239 --> 01:36:15.460 together. We were in the class 236. And I think. 01:36:16.079 --> 01:36:18.039 I want to butcher this. He was either the honor 01:36:18.039 --> 01:36:21.819 man or the fire in the gut. Anyway, he was a 01:36:21.819 --> 01:36:27.239 stud. He was a pure stud and not, not a cowardice. 01:36:27.560 --> 01:36:30.340 If, if anybody wants to speak out about that, 01:36:30.340 --> 01:36:33.260 I mean, that guy, that guy wasn't, he was, he 01:36:33.260 --> 01:36:36.180 was, he was amazing. And then, you know, Chad, 01:36:36.479 --> 01:36:43.850 I worked with Chad over at the squadron and Another 01:36:43.850 --> 01:36:46.550 guy who just, just a phenomenal performer and 01:36:46.550 --> 01:36:48.789 individual, and you would never see it coming, 01:36:48.829 --> 01:36:55.189 but yeah, you know, his wife, Sarah, who sits 01:36:55.189 --> 01:37:00.310 on our board of directors at vets, it was the, 01:37:00.329 --> 01:37:03.989 it was the reason we really came out public to 01:37:03.989 --> 01:37:07.649 tell this story and to talk about psychedelic 01:37:07.649 --> 01:37:11.229 medicine, because we were sitting at his funeral 01:37:11.229 --> 01:37:14.739 in Virginia beach. Amber was just looking around 01:37:14.739 --> 01:37:18.880 and I was looking around and she, you know, it 01:37:18.880 --> 01:37:21.399 was just, we just said, man, is this what we're 01:37:21.399 --> 01:37:23.500 going to do now? The next 20 years is that we've 01:37:23.500 --> 01:37:25.880 been in this funeral home. I don't even know 01:37:25.880 --> 01:37:28.119 how many times for individuals killed in action. 01:37:28.180 --> 01:37:31.079 And now we're going to be in here for individuals 01:37:31.079 --> 01:37:35.560 that are, are death by suicide. Like we can't, 01:37:35.560 --> 01:37:38.239 we can't keep our mouths shut anymore. And we 01:37:38.239 --> 01:37:44.619 felt, we felt bad because We also felt that maybe 01:37:44.619 --> 01:37:48.380 if we spoke out a little bit earlier, maybe there, 01:37:48.460 --> 01:37:50.720 you know, maybe there would have been some hope 01:37:50.720 --> 01:37:54.680 there or something that we could have done to 01:37:54.680 --> 01:37:58.539 prevent this tragic incident. And so we just 01:37:58.539 --> 01:38:01.579 said, OK, we're going to make a deal where we're 01:38:01.579 --> 01:38:04.140 going to speak out about this. I don't care if 01:38:04.140 --> 01:38:07.420 I'm never offered a normal job again because 01:38:07.420 --> 01:38:12.819 somebody thinks it's weird. So I kind of looked 01:38:12.819 --> 01:38:15.739 at it as, I think this is the right thing to 01:38:15.739 --> 01:38:20.760 do. I don't care who doesn't believe in what 01:38:20.760 --> 01:38:23.420 we're speaking about, but if they can't wrap 01:38:23.420 --> 01:38:27.199 their heads around what we're doing is for the 01:38:27.199 --> 01:38:29.800 benefit of others, then they need to go get their 01:38:29.800 --> 01:38:33.920 head checked out. And so just going back to, 01:38:34.000 --> 01:38:36.380 you spoke about Dave, you spoke about Chad, you 01:38:36.380 --> 01:38:39.159 spoke about Sarah, they were a big part of where 01:38:39.159 --> 01:38:41.619 we are today and why we're doing this. I miss 01:38:41.619 --> 01:38:49.939 those, miss those two dearly. Um, but David had 01:38:49.939 --> 01:38:54.119 serious, you know, he had TBI, he had traumatic 01:38:54.119 --> 01:38:57.220 brain injury and it was causing, you know, all 01:38:57.220 --> 01:39:00.520 the shit that you hear about. And, you know, 01:39:00.520 --> 01:39:03.359 that operator syndrome came out a number of years 01:39:03.359 --> 01:39:06.500 ago and talked about how, um, you know, they, 01:39:06.600 --> 01:39:09.340 they talk about special operations, uh, individuals 01:39:09.340 --> 01:39:11.960 in there just for the amount of you know, gunfire 01:39:11.960 --> 01:39:17.319 and explosive work. And, and there's, and that 01:39:17.319 --> 01:39:20.819 the majority of special operations veterans are 01:39:20.819 --> 01:39:23.500 around those types of things more than, than, 01:39:23.619 --> 01:39:28.539 than conventional soldiers. Although conventional 01:39:28.539 --> 01:39:30.939 soldiers, of course, do, you know, a host of 01:39:30.939 --> 01:39:33.000 other things that special operations guys don't 01:39:33.000 --> 01:39:34.680 do. So I don't want to get into like, who's, 01:39:34.680 --> 01:39:37.739 who's worse off, but that, that, that study initially 01:39:37.739 --> 01:39:39.720 was on special operations veterans and the amount 01:39:39.720 --> 01:39:43.260 of, of, of subconcussive and concussive blows 01:39:43.260 --> 01:39:46.279 that individuals are around and it's causing 01:39:46.279 --> 01:39:48.460 these micro tears in the brain. And the micro 01:39:48.460 --> 01:39:50.779 tears are causing like just imbalance in our 01:39:50.779 --> 01:39:55.039 bodies that are causing us the ability to, or 01:39:55.039 --> 01:39:59.079 the inability to sleep. Our hormones are out 01:39:59.079 --> 01:40:00.960 of whack. I mean, I have friends that like come 01:40:00.960 --> 01:40:03.300 back at 35 years old with their testosterone 01:40:03.300 --> 01:40:08.380 levels under 300. You know, I'm sure the same 01:40:08.380 --> 01:40:12.170 in your world. James, but like, this is not normal, 01:40:12.210 --> 01:40:14.770 right? And low testosterone like that causes 01:40:14.770 --> 01:40:18.529 an individual to be depressed or angry and vice 01:40:18.529 --> 01:40:22.569 versa. And you have all these comorbid diagnoses 01:40:22.569 --> 01:40:26.949 that, you know, how does a doctor even know what 01:40:26.949 --> 01:40:29.670 to prescribe, right? So what they know is like, 01:40:29.829 --> 01:40:31.550 oh, you're angry, you're depressed, you have 01:40:31.550 --> 01:40:34.630 anxiety when you're in crowds, well, you have 01:40:34.630 --> 01:40:38.210 PTSD. So we're going to give you this brown bag 01:40:38.210 --> 01:40:39.729 full of all these prescription medicines for 01:40:39.729 --> 01:40:42.510 PTSD. Oh, and by the way, we're not going to 01:40:42.510 --> 01:40:43.789 look inside your brain yet. We're just going 01:40:43.789 --> 01:40:45.170 to give you all these medicines. Why would we 01:40:45.170 --> 01:40:48.109 take a photo of what's happening inside before 01:40:48.109 --> 01:40:50.229 we just start treating it? Like you do to every 01:40:50.229 --> 01:40:54.729 other part of your body, right? And so there's 01:40:54.729 --> 01:41:00.729 an overlap between, I call it MTBI or traumatic 01:41:00.729 --> 01:41:05.420 brain injury and post -traumatic stress. And 01:41:05.420 --> 01:41:08.699 all the hosts of other diagnoses that come along 01:41:08.699 --> 01:41:12.039 with it. And so, you know, the research, it's 01:41:12.039 --> 01:41:15.020 getting stronger. I mean, I know there's good 01:41:15.020 --> 01:41:18.420 work going on, but it's very difficult to deal 01:41:18.420 --> 01:41:20.359 with. Again, when you really don't know what 01:41:20.359 --> 01:41:21.619 you're dealing with, you're like, is this a brain 01:41:21.619 --> 01:41:24.779 thing? Is this a psychological thing? You know, 01:41:24.779 --> 01:41:26.760 is this childhood trauma? Is this wartime trauma? 01:41:28.899 --> 01:41:30.960 Is it a traumatic brain injury? I don't know. 01:41:31.600 --> 01:41:38.270 Is it low testosterone? And, you know, I think 01:41:38.270 --> 01:41:39.930 we got a lot more work to do trying to figure 01:41:39.930 --> 01:41:42.789 out how to treat the whole human, right? This 01:41:42.789 --> 01:41:45.550 kind of integrative medicine or holistic health, 01:41:45.710 --> 01:41:48.529 whatever you want to call it. That's how we need 01:41:48.529 --> 01:41:53.090 to be approaching this effort is from, you know, 01:41:53.090 --> 01:41:59.189 mind, body, spirit, preventative care. And for 01:41:59.189 --> 01:42:03.029 us that are a bit damaged, then, you know, we 01:42:03.029 --> 01:42:05.260 need it. We need to fix things, but we could 01:42:05.260 --> 01:42:08.680 also work on things prior to them happening. 01:42:10.680 --> 01:42:12.319 Absolutely. And like you said, it's usually, 01:42:12.420 --> 01:42:13.939 you know, all those elements is going to be a 01:42:13.939 --> 01:42:16.020 combination of everything. Perfect storm of all 01:42:16.020 --> 01:42:17.720 those things. And sadly, as you touched on, I 01:42:17.720 --> 01:42:19.359 think in the beginning, or maybe I was thinking 01:42:19.359 --> 01:42:22.800 another conversation, you know, the real test 01:42:22.800 --> 01:42:25.659 for this kind of damage has to be done post -mortem. 01:42:25.659 --> 01:42:27.600 So you can't just pull out the brain and look 01:42:27.600 --> 01:42:29.260 at it and then pop it back in someone when they're 01:42:29.260 --> 01:42:32.399 still alive. So I think that's another. tragic 01:42:32.399 --> 01:42:35.479 you know barrier to to progressing in that medicine 01:42:35.479 --> 01:42:37.380 so i think just has to be the assumption you 01:42:37.380 --> 01:42:38.979 know whether you're in law enforcement i've had 01:42:38.979 --> 01:42:41.640 people on here that taught breaching so they 01:42:41.640 --> 01:42:43.819 were there breach after breach after breach you 01:42:43.819 --> 01:42:45.659 know getting this concussion over and over again 01:42:45.659 --> 01:42:48.119 well it's the same with our cancer presumption 01:42:48.119 --> 01:42:49.899 and some of the other things in the fire service 01:42:49.899 --> 01:42:52.779 you are awake 24 hours a day every third day 01:42:52.779 --> 01:42:55.640 there's your presumption You don't need to show 01:42:55.640 --> 01:42:59.640 me, oh, this cancer came from that car fire back 01:42:59.640 --> 01:43:02.859 in 1997. No, you were up every fucking third 01:43:02.859 --> 01:43:05.079 day. There's your prevention. It's the same with 01:43:05.079 --> 01:43:07.060 this. If you were exposed to concussion, then 01:43:07.060 --> 01:43:09.260 there just needs to be an assumption. You did 01:43:09.260 --> 01:43:11.899 this for our country. You come home. We're going 01:43:11.899 --> 01:43:17.119 to take care of you now. Yep. Which some will 01:43:17.119 --> 01:43:19.439 argue we do a good or we don't do a good job 01:43:19.439 --> 01:43:23.630 doing. There's room for improvement. There's 01:43:23.630 --> 01:43:26.329 always room for improvement. I think if you stop 01:43:26.329 --> 01:43:30.970 or it's time to stop improving, it's time to 01:43:30.970 --> 01:43:33.689 figure out to do something else at that point. 01:43:33.770 --> 01:43:38.050 But we could always improve forever. I mean, 01:43:38.069 --> 01:43:41.130 shit, my dad improved to the day he died of pancreatic 01:43:41.130 --> 01:43:44.170 cancer. He probably lived the best years of his 01:43:44.170 --> 01:43:46.970 life the last two or three years just because 01:43:46.970 --> 01:43:51.310 he was in such a good state of mind. and just 01:43:51.310 --> 01:43:54.050 learned that, you know, the way he was prior 01:43:54.050 --> 01:43:58.210 to that was not, was not cool. So he learned, 01:43:58.250 --> 01:44:01.109 and I think it gave him a couple extra years. 01:44:01.550 --> 01:44:04.350 Was it a diagnosis that was the pivot in that? 01:44:04.670 --> 01:44:07.170 Yeah, I think it was a diagnosis and it was the, 01:44:07.229 --> 01:44:11.850 it was a diagnosis and they gave him three months 01:44:11.850 --> 01:44:15.970 to live. And it was the fact that Amber called 01:44:15.970 --> 01:44:20.660 him every single day and talked about, spirituality 01:44:20.660 --> 01:44:26.779 and just, um, just life. And he really like just 01:44:26.779 --> 01:44:31.340 kind of sprouted after that, you know, what was 01:44:31.340 --> 01:44:38.000 70, 70 years old. So, um, but you know, I, I 01:44:38.000 --> 01:44:40.899 said it earlier. I don't think, I don't think, 01:44:41.020 --> 01:44:45.460 um, at least for veterans, you know, the VA and 01:44:45.460 --> 01:44:49.409 those that are covered under TRICARE. Other insurance, 01:44:49.550 --> 01:44:53.229 you know, at the individual level, I think everybody 01:44:53.229 --> 01:44:55.970 cares and everybody's trying, but that's not 01:44:55.970 --> 01:45:00.170 good enough. You know, we need to figure, figure 01:45:00.170 --> 01:45:05.250 something out. It's really, I mean, even individuals 01:45:05.250 --> 01:45:07.569 who have all the money in the world, it seems 01:45:07.569 --> 01:45:09.670 to have, they seem to have a hard time finding 01:45:09.670 --> 01:45:14.060 where to find the right. specialists right treatments 01:45:14.060 --> 01:45:17.899 uh you know i've heard about stuff years after 01:45:17.899 --> 01:45:19.899 i left the military like oh you didn't know about 01:45:19.899 --> 01:45:25.939 this program no i didn't um i didn't at all like 01:45:25.939 --> 01:45:29.000 why didn't i know like i was medically retired 01:45:29.000 --> 01:45:33.880 like i went through a bunch of shit um because 01:45:33.880 --> 01:45:38.439 i was having some some issues and like i'm i 01:45:38.439 --> 01:45:41.380 think i should know about that specific program 01:45:41.380 --> 01:45:45.750 that takes individuals that have, um, you know, 01:45:45.770 --> 01:45:49.090 things going on with their head. And, uh, yeah, 01:45:49.149 --> 01:45:50.630 I mean, some of these programs are there, but 01:45:50.630 --> 01:45:52.489 they're just, you don't know about them or maybe 01:45:52.489 --> 01:45:54.510 they're, maybe they're not put together. Well, 01:45:54.569 --> 01:45:58.050 I don't know, but I do think the private sector 01:45:58.050 --> 01:46:00.090 needs to step in a little bit. Um, if they're 01:46:00.090 --> 01:46:04.630 able to, to, to augment or take over some of 01:46:04.630 --> 01:46:11.800 the, some of the public, um, facing, um, you 01:46:11.800 --> 01:46:17.140 know, treatments and healthcare protocols and 01:46:17.140 --> 01:46:20.920 other things that we can do. Well, I want to 01:46:20.920 --> 01:46:23.140 get to the creation of vets because obviously 01:46:23.140 --> 01:46:25.279 like so many people on the show, as I mentioned, 01:46:25.359 --> 01:46:27.020 whether they're military, police, fire, have 01:46:27.020 --> 01:46:29.539 come out of that profession and then found other 01:46:29.539 --> 01:46:31.640 ways to give. I mean, Ryan, the Sons of the Flag 01:46:31.640 --> 01:46:35.260 and Birdseye Projects, perfect example. But talk 01:46:35.260 --> 01:46:38.000 to me about, so you had this Ibogaine journey, 01:46:38.100 --> 01:46:40.909 this experience. What was the other side like 01:46:40.909 --> 01:46:43.270 for you? And then as you walk me through that, 01:46:43.289 --> 01:46:45.430 then let's talk about that kind of moment where 01:46:45.430 --> 01:46:48.090 you went, okay, I need to bring this to other 01:46:48.090 --> 01:46:53.210 men that I work with. Yeah. So the protocol I 01:46:53.210 --> 01:46:59.470 did was Ibogaine followed by 5 -MeO -DMT, which 01:46:59.470 --> 01:47:06.130 is a molecule that initially came from the Sonoran 01:47:06.130 --> 01:47:13.109 Desert Toad. And it has become so popular that 01:47:13.109 --> 01:47:17.149 they've moved to a synthetic version of it, which 01:47:17.149 --> 01:47:19.850 is completely, it's the same molecule. It's fine. 01:47:19.930 --> 01:47:23.770 It's great. But the two together were very synergistic. 01:47:24.729 --> 01:47:29.210 And the Ibogaine beat me down and helped me kind 01:47:29.210 --> 01:47:32.250 of clear what was going on in terms of like my 01:47:32.250 --> 01:47:34.529 trauma and reset, you know, kind of reset my 01:47:34.529 --> 01:47:38.619 central nervous system. And the 5 -MeO DMT, um, 01:47:39.020 --> 01:47:43.039 really, uh, introduced me to, uh, more of a spiritual 01:47:43.039 --> 01:47:47.319 life. Um, you know, it was very, it was so profound. 01:47:47.579 --> 01:47:52.680 Uh, I really can't explain, uh, explain the experience, 01:47:52.840 --> 01:47:56.279 but, um, if you're ever wondering whether there's 01:47:56.279 --> 01:48:01.119 a more powerful being or energy, uh, at play 01:48:01.119 --> 01:48:05.340 here, um, there's definitely no doubt, uh, if 01:48:05.340 --> 01:48:09.479 you can get to the right place. So that was my 01:48:09.479 --> 01:48:14.420 experience. And we just wanted to pay it forward. 01:48:14.579 --> 01:48:17.260 I mean, the change, it was so radical, my thinking, 01:48:17.319 --> 01:48:22.180 when I got out of my Ibogaine experience, that 01:48:22.180 --> 01:48:28.340 I turned to Amber. I saw her. She flew in. And 01:48:28.340 --> 01:48:30.199 I just said, this is exactly what the guys need. 01:48:30.380 --> 01:48:32.760 Like, this is it. Like, I can't even believe 01:48:32.760 --> 01:48:35.359 this has been hidden. I can't believe more people 01:48:35.359 --> 01:48:37.810 don't know about it. I turned to the doctor at 01:48:37.810 --> 01:48:41.750 the time and I just said, Hey, I assume thousands 01:48:41.750 --> 01:48:44.750 of veterans have done this. He's like, no, no, 01:48:44.789 --> 01:48:46.829 there's a few Marines, like a couple, like maybe 01:48:46.829 --> 01:48:49.710 like a long time ago or like one or two Marines 01:48:49.710 --> 01:48:53.590 or something. And then there was like one other 01:48:53.590 --> 01:48:59.710 seal. And I just said, why? You know, I was like, 01:48:59.710 --> 01:49:04.069 almost got angry. And I, and I turned to Amber 01:49:04.069 --> 01:49:08.899 and I just said, this is it. Like, This is what 01:49:08.899 --> 01:49:12.100 they need. I mean, we're all doing the same shit. 01:49:12.239 --> 01:49:15.260 They're handing us antidepressants and anti -anxiety 01:49:15.260 --> 01:49:18.159 medications and anti -psychotics for some and 01:49:18.159 --> 01:49:20.579 medicine to go to sleep and medicine to stay 01:49:20.579 --> 01:49:27.079 awake, medicine to focus. And all you need is 01:49:27.079 --> 01:49:30.079 a plant medicine that's literally been on this 01:49:30.079 --> 01:49:33.640 earth for thousands of years and been used the 01:49:33.640 --> 01:49:39.989 correct way. for forever. And, um, I'm sure we'll 01:49:39.989 --> 01:49:45.789 fuck that up somehow, but, um, yeah, I mean, 01:49:45.789 --> 01:49:47.630 to me, I found, I felt like I found the answer 01:49:47.630 --> 01:49:51.109 and all I wanted to do is pay it forward. And 01:49:51.109 --> 01:49:54.149 so I didn't know how to do that. So I figured, 01:49:54.270 --> 01:49:56.689 well, I need to do it the same way that it was 01:49:56.689 --> 01:50:00.970 done for me. Um, Kirk Parsley and Mikhail Vega, 01:50:01.109 --> 01:50:04.590 they worked in the background together to, um, 01:50:05.279 --> 01:50:07.960 raise a little bit of funding for me to be able 01:50:07.960 --> 01:50:10.380 to afford this treatment because it's not cheap. 01:50:10.539 --> 01:50:14.079 Hopefully it gets cheaper and we will have failed 01:50:14.079 --> 01:50:17.819 when psychedelic medicine does become federally 01:50:17.819 --> 01:50:21.140 legalized here, which MDMA will be within the 01:50:21.140 --> 01:50:26.500 year, psilocybin within the next two years, psilocybin 01:50:26.500 --> 01:50:31.619 will be federally legalized in Oregon within 01:50:31.619 --> 01:50:35.399 the next year. And then so we're going to have 01:50:35.399 --> 01:50:38.300 to know how to how to be able to treat people 01:50:38.300 --> 01:50:41.479 of lower incomes, not just people who have four 01:50:41.479 --> 01:50:43.020 or five thousand dollars to spend on these things. 01:50:43.119 --> 01:50:46.079 Otherwise, we definitely have failed. And but 01:50:46.079 --> 01:50:49.920 it's coming. It's happening. These medicines 01:50:49.920 --> 01:50:54.699 work and and you go back to that's we we want 01:50:54.699 --> 01:50:57.840 to pay it forward. So we started raising money 01:50:57.840 --> 01:51:01.420 on a grassroots effort. I think Amber's goal 01:51:01.420 --> 01:51:04.140 was to get. 12 individuals over the next 12 months 01:51:04.140 --> 01:51:09.020 and i believe we funded 35 individuals wow that 01:51:09.020 --> 01:51:15.939 year um well then just kind of naturally progressed 01:51:15.939 --> 01:51:20.220 like grassroots effort um found some really good 01:51:20.220 --> 01:51:27.119 individual donors um that were really part of 01:51:27.119 --> 01:51:31.180 um just really into what we were doing and knew 01:51:31.180 --> 01:51:35.000 we can drive change. And so we have some, we 01:51:35.000 --> 01:51:37.260 have some great, we have a great donor base. 01:51:37.500 --> 01:51:41.779 I believe in the cause and we have funded now. 01:51:43.239 --> 01:51:45.479 I don't like to put a direct number on it, but 01:51:45.479 --> 01:51:51.460 it's several hundred over. I'd say definitely 01:51:51.460 --> 01:51:57.420 over 500 that we have funded through, through 01:51:57.420 --> 01:51:59.619 the nonprofit. for individuals to go outside 01:51:59.619 --> 01:52:01.520 the U .S. and do these treatments. And we're 01:52:01.520 --> 01:52:03.399 treatment agnostic, so we're not a treating entity. 01:52:03.720 --> 01:52:07.159 We can't be a treating entity as a 501c3, but 01:52:07.159 --> 01:52:09.840 we can award grant scholarships, and that's what 01:52:09.840 --> 01:52:11.619 we do. And so we have three pillars of vets. 01:52:11.619 --> 01:52:16.119 One is resources, meaning you apply, we grant 01:52:16.119 --> 01:52:18.619 you a scholarship, we give you the education 01:52:18.619 --> 01:52:20.760 about psychedelic medicine, how they started, 01:52:20.859 --> 01:52:22.720 how they're being used. where they're going, 01:52:22.800 --> 01:52:25.399 you make the choice as an individual and you 01:52:25.399 --> 01:52:27.140 have to do it in a country where it's legal or 01:52:27.140 --> 01:52:29.800 unregulated, or we will not grant you that scholarship. 01:52:29.960 --> 01:52:32.140 And so we have vetted retreats and clinics all 01:52:32.140 --> 01:52:35.119 throughout the world that we know are safe and 01:52:35.119 --> 01:52:39.859 that are doing good work. And, and so we provide 01:52:39.859 --> 01:52:42.159 somewhere between 150 and 200 scholarships a 01:52:42.159 --> 01:52:45.140 year in our data database. We actually have thousands 01:52:45.140 --> 01:52:50.239 of applications and you know, the, We just can't 01:52:50.239 --> 01:52:54.000 keep up with the demand right now. It's crazy. 01:52:56.340 --> 01:53:00.119 So we provide resources. We are focused also 01:53:00.119 --> 01:53:02.979 now on research. Without research, we can't move 01:53:02.979 --> 01:53:06.319 the dial in D .C. with the lawmakers. So we have 01:53:06.319 --> 01:53:09.239 several studies going on. We have a study with 01:53:09.239 --> 01:53:11.479 Stanford that's just finishing up the treatment 01:53:11.479 --> 01:53:14.399 portion of 30 individuals with mild traumatic 01:53:14.399 --> 01:53:17.000 brain injury. They're going to do Ibogaine. They 01:53:17.000 --> 01:53:22.020 do fMRI. imaging and a bunch of cognitive batteries. 01:53:22.180 --> 01:53:28.420 And so that study is very promising. I think 01:53:28.420 --> 01:53:31.260 you're going to hear a lot about it in the next 01:53:31.260 --> 01:53:34.020 year to year and a half when those results come 01:53:34.020 --> 01:53:37.979 out. And then we have some data collection efforts 01:53:37.979 --> 01:53:41.340 going on with Ohio State and Johns Hopkins. And 01:53:41.340 --> 01:53:47.890 we have several other proposals in hand. psilocybin 01:53:47.890 --> 01:53:52.050 with 5 -MeO -DMT, with MDMA, couples therapy 01:53:52.050 --> 01:53:54.430 through the VA. And so there's just, there's 01:53:54.430 --> 01:53:56.250 a lot happening. And so that's the research efforts 01:53:56.250 --> 01:53:58.550 and that costs money, as you know. And then the 01:53:58.550 --> 01:54:01.550 third pillar is advocacy work. So, you know, 01:54:01.569 --> 01:54:05.109 Amber and I, and along with the VETS team, we've 01:54:05.109 --> 01:54:07.350 grown to a pretty significant team now, just 01:54:07.350 --> 01:54:09.430 some amazing individuals that we're working with. 01:54:10.229 --> 01:54:13.869 You know, our efforts in Washington, D .C., lobbying 01:54:13.869 --> 01:54:17.390 and talking to lawmakers and educating. uh, just 01:54:17.390 --> 01:54:19.649 kind of what, what we, what we do, where we came 01:54:19.649 --> 01:54:24.170 from, why this is working, um, the look at us 01:54:24.170 --> 01:54:27.770 and say like, Hey, we're not, um, you know, we're 01:54:27.770 --> 01:54:29.930 not hippies at Woodstock that were just kind 01:54:29.930 --> 01:54:36.329 of running around, uh, you know, on, on, on these 01:54:36.329 --> 01:54:38.890 medicines, you, you know, utilizing them as recreational 01:54:38.890 --> 01:54:41.890 drugs. Like these are, these are powerful medicines 01:54:41.890 --> 01:54:47.539 that, um, when used correctly, are literally 01:54:47.539 --> 01:54:51.760 life -changing and life -saving for generations. 01:54:52.140 --> 01:54:55.619 And so we really need to pour money into more 01:54:55.619 --> 01:54:58.359 research. We need to allow access to these medicines 01:54:58.359 --> 01:55:02.699 right here in the U .S. for people who are suffering 01:55:02.699 --> 01:55:07.000 to be able to have the same experience that myself 01:55:07.000 --> 01:55:09.979 and all the others that have come through and 01:55:09.979 --> 01:55:12.279 that are doing these. This stuff is happening 01:55:12.279 --> 01:55:14.600 all over the place, whether it's legal or illegal. 01:55:15.360 --> 01:55:18.079 Unfortunately, we can only fund, obviously, legitimate, 01:55:18.199 --> 01:55:23.579 above -board individuals that are going for these 01:55:23.579 --> 01:55:25.859 treatments in, like I said, places that are legal 01:55:25.859 --> 01:55:28.939 or unregulated. But people are getting healing 01:55:28.939 --> 01:55:32.800 everywhere on their own because what would you 01:55:32.800 --> 01:55:37.060 do if you weren't getting the success you needed 01:55:37.060 --> 01:55:40.699 or the treatment you needed? You'd probably go 01:55:40.699 --> 01:55:44.850 find... out where these are being offered and 01:55:44.850 --> 01:55:48.170 you'd go, you know, you'd go pay money or whatever. 01:55:48.369 --> 01:55:53.789 So we just have to, you know, we believe that 01:55:53.789 --> 01:55:56.210 these, these have to be done correctly. We do 01:55:56.210 --> 01:56:00.470 believe that they need some, some oversight and 01:56:00.470 --> 01:56:04.229 it needs to be regulated. I, I'm, you know, I'm 01:56:04.229 --> 01:56:06.350 not convinced yet that these medicines just need 01:56:06.350 --> 01:56:08.970 to be like turned into the, into the market, 01:56:08.989 --> 01:56:12.590 just kind of like as a free for all. for people 01:56:12.590 --> 01:56:15.689 to use, you know, who they want, when they want. 01:56:16.729 --> 01:56:19.930 These are powerful. These are not, these medicines 01:56:19.930 --> 01:56:24.270 are nothing to, to, to take lightly. They should 01:56:24.270 --> 01:56:26.630 be approached with like huge respect. There needs 01:56:26.630 --> 01:56:32.069 to be a ton of preparation prior to having these 01:56:32.069 --> 01:56:34.210 experiences. And then there needs to, on the 01:56:34.210 --> 01:56:37.050 backend, you know, a significant portion of integration 01:56:37.050 --> 01:56:40.479 support from therapists. after to bring that 01:56:40.479 --> 01:56:43.840 person back into reality and if you can you know 01:56:43.840 --> 01:56:46.159 take these psychedelic drugs and then wrap them 01:56:46.159 --> 01:56:52.439 into just an amazing therapeutic program um you 01:56:52.439 --> 01:56:56.800 have you have a formula that can't be touched 01:56:56.800 --> 01:57:01.180 absolutely hundreds of people on here tell you 01:57:01.180 --> 01:57:03.539 the same exact story yeah well like i said several 01:57:03.539 --> 01:57:05.180 have been on this podcast too and it's something 01:57:05.180 --> 01:57:08.819 it just makes so much sense to me and The perspective, 01:57:08.859 --> 01:57:11.600 the lens that I've had with the epic failure 01:57:11.600 --> 01:57:13.859 of the prohibition of drugs has been as a firefighter 01:57:13.859 --> 01:57:15.920 and a paramedic. So, you know, I've watched, 01:57:16.000 --> 01:57:19.579 I've pulled, you know, 15 year old, you know, 01:57:19.579 --> 01:57:22.619 a sheet over a 15 year old corpse that has, you 01:57:22.619 --> 01:57:24.920 know, died for some drug deal gone wrong or protecting 01:57:24.920 --> 01:57:27.520 his quote unquote turf. I've watched the homelessness, 01:57:27.680 --> 01:57:30.600 the prostitution, the overdoses. So, you know, 01:57:30.600 --> 01:57:33.020 that anyone who puts their hand on their heart 01:57:33.020 --> 01:57:35.619 as a first responder knows that. That has created 01:57:35.619 --> 01:57:37.600 so much death and destruction, and we've empowered 01:57:37.600 --> 01:57:41.840 the underworld, and we've driven the people having 01:57:41.840 --> 01:57:44.340 mental health crises that turn to addiction into 01:57:44.340 --> 01:57:46.819 the shadows, and sadly, we find their corpses. 01:57:47.319 --> 01:57:50.779 The other side of the conversation is that we 01:57:50.779 --> 01:57:53.319 have men and women that fight for... America, 01:57:53.520 --> 01:57:56.380 UK, Australia, who then come home and cannot 01:57:56.380 --> 01:57:58.560 seek the very treatment that will actually heal 01:57:58.560 --> 01:58:00.180 them for the service that they gave to their 01:58:00.180 --> 01:58:03.420 country without going overseas. And that is another 01:58:03.420 --> 01:58:06.659 completely unacceptable element. And just as 01:58:06.659 --> 01:58:10.420 you said, if there's some acceptance, people 01:58:10.420 --> 01:58:12.119 are like, oh, yeah, yeah, but I don't think people 01:58:12.119 --> 01:58:14.029 should be able to have access to them. We're 01:58:14.029 --> 01:58:16.569 not talking about putting meth in the supermarket. 01:58:16.930 --> 01:58:19.229 We're talking about decriminalizing it. You're 01:58:19.229 --> 01:58:20.970 caught with meth. You're not thrown into a prison 01:58:20.970 --> 01:58:23.510 cell. You're funneled into mental health help 01:58:23.510 --> 01:58:25.789 and addiction help. And it's the same with this. 01:58:25.850 --> 01:58:30.270 No, MDMA and psilocybin shouldn't be in the shops. 01:58:30.310 --> 01:58:32.550 It may be recreational psilocybin. Maybe. I don't 01:58:32.550 --> 01:58:35.399 know. But Ibogaine and those kind of things that 01:58:35.399 --> 01:58:37.960 are therapeutic should absolutely be in the hands 01:58:37.960 --> 01:58:39.979 of the well -trained medical community that are 01:58:39.979 --> 01:58:43.899 familiar with those and the counselors. At least 01:58:43.899 --> 01:58:46.859 accessible, right? Yeah, exactly. So when I had 01:58:46.859 --> 01:58:49.220 Dr. Ben Sessa on, who's from the University of 01:58:49.220 --> 01:58:52.640 Bristol in the UK, and they have amazing success 01:58:52.640 --> 01:58:55.800 with MDMA -led. therapy and they don't prescribe 01:58:55.800 --> 01:58:58.460 mdma don't go leave and then go to a rave on 01:58:58.460 --> 01:59:01.640 your own you have mdma your kind of internal 01:59:01.640 --> 01:59:04.100 walls come down you go through a counseling session 01:59:04.100 --> 01:59:06.319 i think it's three of them it's like one week 01:59:06.319 --> 01:59:08.800 third week and then six weeks and then that's 01:59:08.800 --> 01:59:11.539 it and they've seen this continue to work now 01:59:11.539 --> 01:59:14.699 i as a young man in the uk could find mdma anywhere 01:59:14.699 --> 01:59:19.210 recreationally but they cannot Use that. It's 01:59:19.210 --> 01:59:21.850 purely in their research. So again, you know, 01:59:21.850 --> 01:59:23.670 whether it's psilocybin, whether it's ibogaine, 01:59:23.710 --> 01:59:27.529 whether it's, you know, MDMA, these are proven 01:59:27.529 --> 01:59:31.770 to work. And yet our ridiculous backward prohibition 01:59:31.770 --> 01:59:34.210 laws that were founded on racism and job justification 01:59:34.210 --> 01:59:37.909 have continued to stack the bodies for the last 01:59:37.909 --> 01:59:40.489 80 years. So we talk about show me the studies. 01:59:40.550 --> 01:59:43.409 Well, there's the most epic longitudinal study 01:59:43.409 --> 01:59:46.289 of what a fucking complete failure prohibition 01:59:46.289 --> 01:59:49.239 is. And here's yet another conversation that 01:59:49.239 --> 01:59:51.600 underlines why we need to decriminalize some 01:59:51.600 --> 01:59:53.739 of these drugs, put them back in the hands of 01:59:53.739 --> 01:59:56.380 the medical community so we can start healing 01:59:56.380 --> 01:59:58.420 our first responders and our veterans and everyone 01:59:58.420 --> 02:00:02.439 else who can benefit from it on our own country's 02:00:02.439 --> 02:00:05.699 soil. Yeah, I agree. We have to turn it into 02:00:05.699 --> 02:00:07.140 a health problem, not into a criminal problem. 02:00:07.279 --> 02:00:09.220 Like you just mentioned, those individuals that 02:00:09.220 --> 02:00:11.640 are hooked on some of these drugs, you throw 02:00:11.640 --> 02:00:13.380 them in a jail, what's going to happen? They're 02:00:13.380 --> 02:00:17.880 going to get worse. So it's not like they're 02:00:17.880 --> 02:00:20.899 going to give any better, you know, but, but 02:00:20.899 --> 02:00:23.079 if you take that individual and rehabilitate 02:00:23.079 --> 02:00:25.020 that person and try to put them back into society, 02:00:25.180 --> 02:00:28.020 I mean, I know it's easy to say difficult to 02:00:28.020 --> 02:00:31.319 execute, but much better than the alternative, 02:00:31.340 --> 02:00:33.020 which is just to like throw everybody in jail, 02:00:33.039 --> 02:00:36.399 get caught with like, I don't know, a few, you 02:00:36.399 --> 02:00:38.159 know, a bag of mushrooms in their pocket or, 02:00:38.220 --> 02:00:41.699 you know, some cocaine or whatever. Again, it's 02:00:41.699 --> 02:00:44.579 case by case scenario. I'm not going to sit here, 02:00:44.659 --> 02:00:47.659 but. We've seen the war on drugs has completely 02:00:47.659 --> 02:00:51.380 failed and wasted a ton of money for certain. 02:00:51.859 --> 02:00:53.819 And both sides of the aisle will say that now. 02:00:53.939 --> 02:00:59.279 So that's not a partisan thing. It's definitely 02:00:59.279 --> 02:01:02.819 a bipartisan issue. Absolutely. Absolutely. And 02:01:02.819 --> 02:01:04.699 again, you know, smuggling, selling, that's a 02:01:04.699 --> 02:01:06.500 whole different conversation. I'm talking about 02:01:06.500 --> 02:01:09.600 personal use for the app. So, and going back 02:01:09.600 --> 02:01:12.000 to your MDMA conversation around PTSD, you know, 02:01:12.000 --> 02:01:15.039 Amber and I are working closely with the VA right 02:01:15.039 --> 02:01:17.920 now and with, you know, Rick Doblin of maps to. 02:01:19.550 --> 02:01:22.670 To really build these studies and clinical trials 02:01:22.670 --> 02:01:27.529 around couples MDMA therapy for the VA, we want 02:01:27.529 --> 02:01:30.170 to have access to these medicines as soon as 02:01:30.170 --> 02:01:34.729 possible. So the faster we can build these trials 02:01:34.729 --> 02:01:38.149 and show that these medicines are quite effective 02:01:38.149 --> 02:01:40.050 and more effective than what's currently being 02:01:40.050 --> 02:01:42.229 offered, the quicker they will be able to get 02:01:42.229 --> 02:01:46.010 in the hands of first responders, military veterans, 02:01:46.369 --> 02:01:49.180 and even low -income. you know, the low income 02:01:49.180 --> 02:01:51.739 population, which again, I think we have failed 02:01:51.739 --> 02:01:55.880 if these medicines are only offered for wealthy 02:01:55.880 --> 02:01:57.520 individuals, I can afford them because insurance 02:01:57.520 --> 02:02:00.159 is not going to pay. I don't think for a while 02:02:00.159 --> 02:02:04.239 that's going to take some time. But we have to 02:02:04.239 --> 02:02:05.880 have, you know, also a robust data collection 02:02:05.880 --> 02:02:08.859 effort to make sure that we're showing that these 02:02:08.859 --> 02:02:11.960 drugs are efficacious and they're working because 02:02:11.960 --> 02:02:14.060 we still have to play. I feel within the system, 02:02:14.140 --> 02:02:17.909 you know, you could say, screw the system. You 02:02:17.909 --> 02:02:21.890 know, I say, yeah, you know, a lot of the system 02:02:21.890 --> 02:02:25.289 doesn't work. A lot of system does work. We just 02:02:25.289 --> 02:02:27.989 have to figure out how to, you know, find the 02:02:27.989 --> 02:02:30.770 right way to work with the system to allow these 02:02:30.770 --> 02:02:35.470 medicines to be accessed. Absolutely. Well, for 02:02:35.470 --> 02:02:37.550 people listening, where can they find Vets? And 02:02:37.550 --> 02:02:39.550 Vets is Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions. 02:02:39.789 --> 02:02:42.609 So where can they find that online? If they're 02:02:42.609 --> 02:02:44.810 out there hurting, how can they put an application 02:02:44.810 --> 02:02:47.069 in? And then also, how can they donate if they're 02:02:47.069 --> 02:02:50.050 in a position to do that? Yeah, excellent. So 02:02:50.050 --> 02:02:53.970 if those out there that are listening, we are 02:02:53.970 --> 02:03:00.229 at vetsolutions .org. That's V -E -T solutions 02:03:00.229 --> 02:03:03.810 .org. There's a ton of material on the website. 02:03:04.930 --> 02:03:08.050 There's application under Healing Grants on the 02:03:08.050 --> 02:03:10.909 drop -down menu under Healing Grants. There's 02:03:10.909 --> 02:03:14.229 an e -course that we had built that's just phenomenal. 02:03:14.550 --> 02:03:21.069 We get people all the time that send in notes 02:03:21.069 --> 02:03:23.250 and just compliment on how well that course was 02:03:23.250 --> 02:03:26.800 put together. And it's a really great... It's 02:03:26.800 --> 02:03:28.960 kind of like psychedelics 101, but it takes you 02:03:28.960 --> 02:03:31.520 all the way back to how they were, you know, 02:03:31.520 --> 02:03:34.539 where they started, how they were initially intended 02:03:34.539 --> 02:03:37.039 for use and kind of how they've grown to where 02:03:37.039 --> 02:03:40.640 they're at today and how they're being used for, 02:03:40.739 --> 02:03:43.880 you know, for all different type of issues. So 02:03:43.880 --> 02:03:49.580 vetsolutions .org. There's also a donate. button 02:03:49.580 --> 02:03:52.840 on the website i believe we're accepting cryptocurrencies 02:03:52.840 --> 02:03:55.899 now um we'd like to we'd like to accept them 02:03:55.899 --> 02:03:59.600 now that they're down so we can sell them um 02:03:59.600 --> 02:04:05.739 but yeah um please support us follow us on instagram 02:04:05.739 --> 02:04:09.239 follow us on linkedin uh i think we also have 02:04:09.239 --> 02:04:12.600 a facebook page i'm sure beautiful well marcus 02:04:12.600 --> 02:04:15.180 i just want to say thank you so much i mean Firstly, 02:04:15.279 --> 02:04:17.159 the work that you're doing, as with so many people 02:04:17.159 --> 02:04:20.000 out on here that, as I mentioned before, leave 02:04:20.000 --> 02:04:22.899 a position of service and then carry on the serve 02:04:22.899 --> 02:04:26.880 outside. But also to have the courage and vulnerability 02:04:26.880 --> 02:04:29.920 to tell your story, because as I'm sure you found 02:04:29.920 --> 02:04:33.159 yourself, it's that kind of storytelling. It's 02:04:33.159 --> 02:04:36.470 that kind of. door opening as it were that saves 02:04:36.470 --> 02:04:39.310 lives this facade of masculinity that we were 02:04:39.310 --> 02:04:41.909 raised on the kind of john rambo john wayne bullshit 02:04:41.909 --> 02:04:44.130 i think is the reason we've you know been to 02:04:44.130 --> 02:04:46.909 a lot of funerals you and i both so by having 02:04:46.909 --> 02:04:48.829 these conversations that someone from seal team 02:04:48.829 --> 02:04:51.189 six can tell the story that they do and continue 02:04:51.189 --> 02:04:53.350 to i mean i hate the fact that you're still struggling 02:04:53.350 --> 02:04:55.310 and you're you're getting these these symptoms 02:04:55.310 --> 02:04:57.390 now that are worrying you but that's the reality 02:04:57.390 --> 02:04:59.810 of these journeys that that we're on you know 02:05:00.119 --> 02:05:02.859 mid and post service. So I just want to say thank 02:05:02.859 --> 02:05:04.600 you so much for being so generous with your time 02:05:04.600 --> 02:05:08.340 today. Yeah, James, thank you. And just for the 02:05:08.340 --> 02:05:11.380 record, I'm in a great place. I'm in the best 02:05:11.380 --> 02:05:16.680 place I've ever been, ever. Just mentally, spiritually, 02:05:17.000 --> 02:05:20.659 I am having some headaches that I don't like. 02:05:20.800 --> 02:05:22.359 And so I'm just a little concerned about that. 02:05:22.439 --> 02:05:24.600 So I will get those checked out. But in terms 02:05:24.600 --> 02:05:27.880 of quality of life and how I am just emotionally 02:05:27.880 --> 02:05:30.380 and spiritually, I can't I can't ask for more. 02:05:30.600 --> 02:05:33.640 And again, I go back to my first journey in 2017 02:05:33.640 --> 02:05:38.460 that has helped kind of pave the way for everything 02:05:38.460 --> 02:05:38.760 else.