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.com. Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.
As always, my name is James Geering, and this
week it is my absolute honor to welcome back
onto the show former law enforcement veteran,
SWAT team member, and gang unit member, Mark
Kuhl. Now, if you missed my first conversation
with Mark, it was episode 630, and that was when
he was still working for his department. Mark
has since retired this year, and if you thought
his last conversation was raw, then prepare yourself,
because someone who's able to take the uniform
off and truly advocate for their profession is
an extremely needed and important voice. So we
discuss a host of topics. from the recruitment
crisis in the first responder community, the
importance of strength and conditioning and combatives
in law enforcement, the deployment of the National
Guard, what we're seeing with ICE, his perspective
on Gaza, the importance of moral courage, cowardice
in leadership, and so much more. Now, before
we get to this incredible conversation, as I
say every week, please just take a moment. Go
to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe
to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.
Every single five -star rating truly does elevate
this podcast, therefore making it easier for
others to find. And this is a free library of
well over 1 ,100 episodes now. So all I ask in
return is that you help share these incredible
men and women's stories so I can get them to
every single person on planet Earth who needs
to hear them. So with that being said, I welcome
back onto the show Mark Kuhl. Enjoy. Well, Mark,
I want to start by saying, firstly, welcome back
onto the show. It's funny if we Google your name
in the Behind the Shield, it doesn't come up
because last time you were still working, so
it was under tactical. So I want to welcome you
back with your own name this time onto the Behind
the Shield podcast. Thank you. Yeah, I can use
my name now. All done. So for people listening,
this is going to do a recap. Of the roles that
you played in law enforcement, the last, you
know, your full career. And I'd love to kind
of transition to your transition. Let's use that
word twice in a sentence. I did 25 years. I started
out in Uniform Patrol. I did Uniform Patrol for
13 years. But I found myself really attached
to community policing. So that was kind of where
where I went. I am like I used to fight against
it and I don't anymore. I was unusual in law
enforcement because I started off believing in
empathy, compassion and love with a physical
skill set to back those things up. And what I
found was. That that in and of itself helped
me. I never hated the job. I never hated society.
I didn't blame anyone for how they looked at
police. Part of that was my upbringing, which
we went over in the last podcast. But it never
made me hate the people I was supposed to protect.
It never made me hate victims. It never made
me hate any criminals. My personal view on it
was I have never seen, I've never fought evil.
I fight human beings who commit evil deeds. So
I didn't look at anyone as inherently bad or
inherently good. I took it for what it was. So
I never really wanted to lead uniform patrol
where a lot of people, the goal in law enforcement
is to get out of there and get to a specialty
unit as quick as you can. And I struggled a lot
because of how I was. I would get a lot of numbers
in a neighborhood to begin with, numbers meaning
arrests, and then it would kind of. Well, which
in my career and in law enforcement, that's supposedly
the goal that you you get these arrests and then
you can put a neighborhood that was in distress
into maintenance phase. So the arrests lower.
So I always thought that was the goal. And turns
out that's not always the goal. They want the
numbers. They want the stats. What wound up happening
was in that 13 years, I really became good at.
gathering what i called my little army so i always
and i i i would always find the good because
they'll point out the bad always find the good
there is far more good than bad in any neighborhood
and what i started to find was a lot of the neighborhoods
that i was in uh were were ganged up and that
was predominantly where the problem was so then
i started going after gangs arresting gang members
and then i wanted to go to the gang unit we had
stood one up and we had a really violent a really
violent period in about 2011, which is also when
I went on the SWAT team. But there was like seven
murders between three cities and they put me
on a task force with the gang unit and I loved
it. And we wound up making a lot of arrests,
taking a lot of guns. So my name kind of got
put out there. However, One of the best compliments
I ever received was they didn't want to put me
on the gang unit because I was an informal leader
who did not always support the goals and standards
of the police department, which I take that as
a badge of honor. So I had to apply for the gang
unit three times. And that's that in and of itself
is very rare because people like get butthurt
and then they go to another unit. Or like I said,
they just want to get out of uniform patrol.
All I wanted was the gang unit. I never minded
uniform patrol. And within that span, I also
became we were on a dedicated bike unit for a
year. And I loved being on bike. A lot of officers
like crap on the bikes and community policing.
And those are like the Punisher skull type people.
And I was never that. Being on the bike unit,
I wind up, that bike unit was four of us. We
controlled a beat that was very dangerous at
the time. There was an apartment complex that
was constantly shot up with, they had AK -47s.
It was connected to New York. It was 9 Trey.
So we wound up decreasing violent crime in that
area by 85 % by their own metrics, which they
were very angry. They were happy. And the guy
that was in charge of the unit actually used
it to become a major in the department. And as
soon as he left, the bike unit got tanked. And
then shortly thereafter, I got put on that task
force. And then I eventually went to the gang
unit in 2014. And that's where I stayed for until
my career ended on in January of 2025. And within
the gang unit, then. I always had, you, you are
big on mentorship. I know that. And nobody ever
does it alone. And I couldn't have, I couldn't
have done what I did without the few uppers that
understood what I was and what I brought to the
table. And then the few uppers that wanted to
use me for, for what I could, could give them.
And whatever, that is what it is. So when I went
to the gang unit, then all of a sudden they wanted
to wanted me to start recruiting. They wanted
me to work with Intel. I did a couple of long
term, like large investigations with involving
gangs and partnering with the feds. Which I got
kicked out of the FBI building so that we can
go over that later. And we should. Yeah. So within
that scope of things, then I started training
at the academy and then I was a combatives instructor.
I really love that. I totally revamped the program,
re -bought jiu -jitsu in. I partnered with surrounding
gyms. We got Adopt -A -Cop started with Mitch.
So that was training officers because that's
really the problem in law enforcement is we are
not very good in the physical realm. And we're
big on slogans and not so big on actions. And
then the last three years was I was almost exclusively
doing recruiting. I was going to military bases
because during the defund movement and all that.
The uppers decided they didn't want to be militarized
and and we shouldn't be looking for that. It
was the most ridiculous thing ever. And so recruiting
started slipping and then they sent me to military
bases and our recruiting kept coming back up.
And then I started a prep class for aspiring
officers and they were getting prior to that,
they were getting to 15 to 20 recruit like recruits
in a recruit class. When I took over the program,
it was back up to 30, 40, 50 viable candidates
for our recruiting. And we were able to bolster
our numbers. And then as soon as I left, they
dismantled all of that. And then they lowered
the standards, unfortunately, because I was big
on if I'm going to do this, they're going to
complete the physical tasks to get into the academy.
I need to watch them. I want to see, can they
get over a wall? And we had a major, I crap you
not, we had a scientifically viable test. You
couldn't get sued or anything like that. So one
of the last things I did was implement, because
I was a TSAC guy in NSCA, implement that test.
It was five. I wanted a shuttle run, but they
left a mile and a half. But it was five events
that you had to complete. Well, we were getting
enough. You just had to run the test like every
weekend. Well, officers being officers, they
started complaining. Well, can't we just do it
once a month? I was like, no. I was like, we
got to get as many people as we can. And I say,
then I want to get them into the prep class.
I want them to assimilate to our style. So by
the time they set foot on that grinder, they're
ready to rock. I say, they need to believe in
this. They need to believe in us. So they start
complaining and they go up above me, which. happened
throughout my career and a major comes and he
comes with these standards. I crap you not. As
a male, you had to complete 11 pushups. And as
a female, you had to complete four pushups. You
didn't have to go over the wall. I think the
300 meter sprint was like at a minute in 15 seconds.
And I looked at him, I was like, where did you
get these numbers? I said, how did you do this?
Oh, well, I just figured those were better numbers
than what we had. I said, the numbers we had
actually came from a test from LawFit and all
these people. I said, they're defendable in court.
I said, so we've already gone through the expense
of the city attorney saying, yeah, well, we can
defend these numbers. You're just pulling numbers
out of your ass. And he's like, yeah, but I think
we'll get more people. And I said, but you won't
get the people we want. And then you're going
to, the people that. like can physically complete,
you're going to anger them. Cause they're going
to be like, this dude just did 11 pushups. I
did 50 pushups. Why is he here? And he just didn't
get it. And I, I begged him. I was like, listen,
you send me to all these schools. You, you, you
made me a subject matter expert in this. And
you just come with, I don't know. You went to
a, you went to a restaurant and did this with
the other uppers on a napkin. And here we are.
And he instituted those numbers. And I think
the next academy class, they lost like 15 people
within two weeks. So that's what I did for the
last three years. And I saw the writing on the
wall. I hit the age. I hit 50. I have some kind
of severe injuries. I'm scheduled. You can kind
of hear the lisp right now. I got stupid braces
in. They have to fix my airway. And I'm having
neck surgery December 8th because my like I wound
up hurting my neck real bad and it went undiagnosed
for 15 years. That's another story with workers.
But anyway, I I hit all my numbers and I just
I left. I retired and I do not I do not regret
it. I highly recommend retirement, but I also.
Everybody always asks, like, oh, I would never
join. I still, I would join law enforcement tomorrow.
I would tell my sons if that's what they, now
they can't go to the department I've left from,
but I would tell my sons, yeah, if it's something
you want to do, do it. I regret, I don't regret
a day of it. Even when I talk about when I hurt
my neck, it was, you know, a guy jumped out a
window on a warrant and he was trying to commit
suicide. And he basically like fought me to try
and drop from a second story window. And I was
able to thankfully pull him back. And that became
a whole thing. I was fighting like gang members.
I tore everything in my shoulder. I wound up
breaking my neck and not knowing it, but everybody
always asked me like, well, you should have dropped
them. And I just think that's one of the, that's
disgusting. And I, I always, when I. When I had
the opportunity to teach academy classes, I would
tell that story and I would ask him, I was like,
what do you think I regret about about that day?
And all of them be like, oh, not dropping them
or you shouldn't have caught them. And then I
just look them dead. And then I tell them that
the injury that I that I suffered with. And then
I tell them I regret nothing, not a moment of
it. And full full circle wise, that individual,
because it. It could have wound up in an IA complaint
because his his I think I told you the story
the last time his mom asked him if I threw him
out the window and like he looked at me like
like a kid looks at you when they're about to
lie. And he goes, you know how they do. And he
put his head down like everybody's attacking
me. And the mom's like, you threw my you threw
my child out a window. I wound up going to the
hospital with him, holding his hand while they
were stitching him up. I wound up following him
like he he hit me up a couple of times. He wound
up getting shot again. But full circle wise,
I named my my son after him. And I didn't know
it at the time because I knew his street name
and I named. Now I have a younger son. I just
had I just had a son three months ago because
why not? But my 11 year old is named after him.
And the way I found that out was he had called
me. And it was the anniversary when it happened.
Everybody was telling the story. And I looked
up the report because everybody was like, did
that really happen? Like, that's one of your
stories. And I was like, yeah, it really happened.
So I looked up the report and I looked at his
name and I was like, holy crap. And I named my
son after him. So that's it. And those are the
stories that. Nine to five job in an office,
you ain't getting that. So I don't regret anything.
I loved it every every moment of it. So. Well,
I want to get to the recruitment in a minute,
because obviously that's something that I'm passionate
about as well. But before we do, excuse me, you'd
alluded to the importance of the heart for service,
you know, this kindness, compassion, empathy
that I would argue the best firefighters, cops,
paramedics, doctors, nurses, teachers have. But
there's this paradox, especially in your profession
where you truly are having to fight for your
life sometimes. Ours is more usually inanimate
objects trying to kill us. But I've really realized
this. If you truly want to be kind in the world,
you have to have the physicality to back it up.
Otherwise, as we recorded, you know, we're talking
before we hit record, there are very prominent
bullies at the moment. Without that physicality,
they just get to walk all over people. But if
you get a bully who's a little bitch, then now
you get to enforce your kindness because it can't
be driven away by fear. So talk to me about the
importance of the physicality in uniform to then
bolster the kindness, compassion, empathy that
we should be known for. Because it so the way
I taught. my academy students was fear is a gift.
Like you have to have fear. Scared is the curse
that comes with it. Fear is something that tells
you, okay, this can go sideways. I have to be
ready for this. I have to look for this. Scared
is you freeze, you over, uh, you, you overdo
something or you underdo something. So that's
how I differentiated. You have to have fear,
like the stupid no fear stickers and all that
stuff. That's ridiculous. That's just sloganism
that doesn't do anybody any good. And I used
to hear, you know, and luckily in the military,
I was well trained and I saw it. And as a child,
I told you, I had a violent household. There
is a stark difference between knowing violence
and understanding violence. You know violence
can work. You know when you see it. You know
when you're scared of it. To understand it is
to know if I'm to use it, I know my parameters.
I know my left and right guardrails as a police
officer. It is a short -term solution to de -escalate
a situation. And de -escalation has become this
buzzword. Weak officers think it means I'm just
going to keep talking for forever and hopefully
it goes right. Officers that understand what
de -escalation is, de -escalation is not a tactic,
it's an outcome. So if someone gets in my face
and I check them hard and then I take them to
the ground, that's de -escalation because that
person was getting aggressive and now I've done
it under control. To have the empathy, compassion,
and love is to know when that is not necessary,
is to have the physical confidence when you arrive
on scene, I can handle what's going to come at
me. And I see it all the time with officers.
You're seeing it right now with Ice. Why are
you masked up, eight deep, yanking a mom to the
ground, not being able to control her? Three
officers are now on top of her. You're useless.
And you're making the problem worse because now
you're getting filmed. Now people are yelling
at you. You saw the ICE officer who lost his
gun and then picked up his gun and pointed it
at the crowd as if he was some tough guy. And
he's yelling at them to get back. You messed
up. The crowd didn't do anything. You goofed.
And that's where having the empathy, compassion
and love and a physical skill set to back those
things up is essential to a law enforcement officer.
And I always get asked. What do you think makes
a good cop? Should it be totally physical? Self
-awareness and emotional intelligence. Know when
you're getting hyped up. They didn't sign up
to be better. Anyone in the crowd did not sign
up to be better, did not sign up to be the bigger
person in that crowd. The law enforcement did.
We have the bully in charge. Oh, they're in their
faces. Yeah, yep. That's what they do. That's
what crowds do. I have been in situations where
officers have froze because there's a crowd gathering.
And this is against tactics. I would always go
and talk. And guess what? The crowd dispersed.
On my Instagram page, which I no longer post,
but I keep my stories because I promised my little
army. We marched down as a SWAT team and we had.
And we literally look like an occupying force.
We're geared up. We've got 40 mic mics. We've
got every implement under the sun. There was
a man who brandished, he had broken into a church.
He brandished a firearm at the pastor who was
opening up the church and threatened to kill
anybody that came to get him out. We're marching
down the street and here comes the crowd because
this is right in the midst of the defund the
police and George Floyd. And they're yelling
at us, see, this is what you do. This is what
you do. We're going to come get you. You ain't
getting him, blah, blah, blah. We know how you
do. You're going to kill him. You're going to
kill him. And I could literally see the SWAT
guys, the shoulders start going up, like in their
tents. And I see one guy filming, and he's like,
F the police and all this stuff. And I recognized
him. So he's filming and you can see in the video,
I break off from, you know, our line and I look
at him and I say, hey, man, you filming? He goes,
yeah, I'm filming. I said, make me look taller.
And he's like, what? And I said, make me look
taller. And he go and out of nowhere, he goes,
cool. Is that you? And I was like, yeah, it's
me. And all of a sudden, the entire tenor of
what was going on changed. And our Intel guys
were watching because they had put us on Facebook
Live. And everybody was like, F them. Don't let
them get to the church. They're taking over our
neighborhood. And then all of a sudden, my buddy
was telling me, he's like, hey, man, everything
changed after that. Because they were like, who
the is that guy? And the guy on the video says,
oh, man, that's cool. He's a gang unit. I got
mad respect for him. He do everything right.
He goes, that dude big as hell out of that uniform.
And then they started calling me Debo. And then
all of a sudden that everybody kind of even the
SWAT guys are like. Relaxed and now we're about
the business of what we have to do for the offender,
not for the crowd that has every right under
the Constitution to call us every name in the
book to film us to do whatever they want. I don't
go contempt of cop. And that comes from my empathy,
my love and compassion, because I understand
this neighborhood has probably been. inundated
with police their entire lives, with people that
look like me, wore my badge, and probably did
not treat them right all the time. And this is
a known gang member that I'm talking to. But
he's also a citizen of the city that I'm sworn
to protect. And within that incident, several
times they started pushing on the police tape,
like when we had come back. And their plan, the
command bus's plan, which I can't stand the ICS
system, because they're like, Three miles away
telling us what we should do about this crowd
because, hey, the crowd's moving on the crime
scene tape. They were going to O .C. Spram. That
was going to be their plan to walk officers down
and O .C. Spram. I told the scene commander,
I said, hey, give me give me one shot at this.
And he's like, I ain't sending nobody with you.
And I was like, all right. Right. Again, not
tactics. I do not. This is not something I teach.
Right. But 30 seconds of calculated crazy. Sometimes
it works out. Right. So I walk down and I tell
everybody, and this is on the same video that's
on my Instagram page. I said, hey, our problem
is right there. If he comes out and does something,
I want us to get hit, not you. Can you please,
I don't mind if you film, can you please back
away from the caution tape? All right, all right,
all right. And they all back up. And in that
video, you hear a dad. Because the kid's saying,
what is he doing? And the dad says, he's going
to take a bullet for us. And that, you can't
get any better than that. I don't want awards.
I don't want, and I've been officer of the year
and like all the stuff's in the attic, right?
None of that means shit. Like it doesn't, like
you can give anybody that stuff. And like everybody
on scene there probably got an award like two
days later. None of that matters to me. What
that dad said to his child. is the highest compliment
a police officer can get. Because through my
empathy, through my compassion, through my love,
through looking at humans as humans and telling
them, please. Now, I also knew if it went sideways,
I was going to grab the gang member with that
phone, take him to the ground as quick as possible,
absolutely dominate him in the physical realm.
And guess what? The 25 other people, they're
generally going to back up because they don't
want any of that. because it was quick, it was
efficient, and it wasn't done yelling because
I've also done that. I've also had crowds where
there's two or three agitators. One of them gets
in my face, which that's what I wanted, do a
quick ankle pick or a takedown, dominate them,
get in the mount, tell them to calm down, and
now all of a sudden. All the bullies back up
and they're like, oh, because there's still enough
respect for police. They know there's more of
me coming. And they also know that was not what
they expected to happen. And that's where law
enforcement loses it, because within that empathy,
compassion and love component, you don't hate.
You don't blame society for the ills. You look
inward. What can we do better? You know what?
I'm getting a little bit of a pooch here. I got
to fix this. I went to my physical and they're
telling me my cholesterol is too high. I'm getting
diabetic. You fix inward instead of looking outward
to blame your problems on, especially as law
enforcement, because like it or not, you signed
up to be better. And that's where I came up with
the warrior police. Like nobody liked that. Well,
the academy classes love it, but the uppers didn't
like that because that has a bad connotation.
And I always used to tell them, I was like, I
define what a warrior is. And I said, a true
warrior, the ones who did it best knew that their
job was to go extinct, was to not be necessary,
was to go back to their farms. Me and Jeff talk
about it all the time about earn your garden.
That's what a warrior does. He earns his peace.
And I'm there to protect, not to make more of
me, but to make more of people who have better
solutions than me. I'm a dinosaur. If I have
to continually use violence to try and keep everything
under control, I am failing in some aspect of
what's going on. And that's what drives me crazy
about what's going on now is these bullies. You're
commandeering what was supposed to be a noble
profession. And we've already taken enough hits.
And you're just making it worse. So, yeah, I'm
huge on that. And it cost me a lot because a
lot of I differentiate between cops and warrior
police. Cops can't stand that crap. I was invited
to a symposium. And it's it's like 500 police
officers. And I was invited because they were
specifically talking about how I targeted gangs,
how it only takes one officer to turn around
a neighborhood. And I look the way I look. Obviously,
I got the you know, I got the Viking thing going
on. I sit down. And it was it was an FBI symposium.
He introduces me and I'm looking at tight T -shirts
and huge dudes. And they're just waiting for
me to like you go in, you kick ass, you tell
everybody it's your neighborhood now. And I literally
start off by by saying I believe in empathy,
compassion and love. And treating everyone like
a human being and finding what we have in common
and. you you could have heard a pin drop and
like they were like you know you know how a dog
looks at you like they don't they're just like
what huh and the female sitting next to me she
knew who i was and she texted me and my phone
goes off and she's like you just effed up their
world and that was that was true and what drives
me crazy james i got done it was like a 30 minute
presentation And I kept hitting on empathy, compassion,
and love. It'll make you better at your job.
It won't get you jaundiced. I'm not saying you
don't ever put hands on somebody. What I'm saying
is when you do it, be physically in control of
yourself and that person, which means you've
got to train. And our departments are not doing
this for us. Because they're so far removed.
And back in their day, it was six on one and
everything worked out. And I said, but they didn't
have body cameras. They didn't have people ready
to film, ready to critique you. And I said, so
we have to be better. So I go and everybody kind
of like slow claps it. And then I'm out in the
corridor and there had to be about 15 officers
in tight shirts, Punisher skulls, all that stuff
coming up to me and saying, I want to be more
like that. I didn't think we could operate like
that. I want to operate like that. I'm always
reticent because it's so self -aggrandizing,
but here we are. I knew. I knew that they looked
at me and they were impressed. They just didn't
know how to get there. And that made me sad because...
A lot of them, I said, why didn't you raise your
hand when I said it? Because I asked if anybody
had any questions, and like, nobody. And then
I get mobbed in the corridor. And they were like,
man, I wasn't going to say that that was the
right way. And that's what I love about the younger
generation coming up. They have that. In all
the measurables, they are more empathetic, more
compassionate, and more loving as individuals.
They're confused by what they see of the world
and of our leaders. Because we told these kids,
care about others, take care of your neighbors.
And then as soon as they do it, we call them
soft and we call them names. And that's not the
way the world works. When I got that prep class,
their eyes, like it just clicked. What they're
missing is the sacrifice, the drive and determination
to be in professions like ours. They don't understand
it is going to take a toll. And the physical
realm and being empathetic, compassionate and
love is going to stave off a lot of the things
that takes people out in the profession. You
know, the drug abuse, the alcohol abuse, the
self -loathing, the coming to work and being
mad at the world and taking it out on the first.
suspect you can, if you keep that mindset of
continual evolution and continual bettering yourself,
it's a bulwark against that. And it's how it's
supposed to be. Because the guys that I always
loved being around were of the similar mindset.
And we all didn't have exactly the same mindset.
We all wanted to get the job done the most correct
way possible with the least amount of damage
to anyone, anything. And us as well. And I just,
I've been very fortunate that that's how I roll
for 25 years. But it was, it sucked on the way
out to know that it was just going to be like,
he's gone. That's it. Like they tore apart the
gang unit. It just became a jump out squad. It
messed me up pretty bad to watch that. They don't
even go to the schools anymore. See, this is
what's so counterintuitive is there's this completely
backward mentality that if you lower standards,
as you alluded to earlier, we'll have all these
people and then we'll be able to hire a bunch
of people. And when I look at my career, I argue,
you know, I've worked in one of the best fire
departments in America, hands down, and one of
the worst. And the worst one, they had better
pay. They had more time off in the Kelly day.
and zero fitness standards, zero need to prove
your worth as a firefighter in any way, shape,
or form during the orientation when I got hired.
And they could barely get anyone to test. The
one that held the bar super high, even despite
this recruitment crisis we're going through now,
they're still held at the top because their standards,
at least when I was there, they took... I figured
this out the other day. the top 3 % of the list
of over a thousand candidates at the written.
So the list was even bigger before that. And
then through the probationary year of each of
the two classes, they used to get rid of about
a quarter of the class. So by the end of probation,
you're down really to each class was 1 % of that
list. And so you've basically removed anyone
was there for the wrong reason. You held such
a high standard that only if you have. Is compassion
and service burning in your heart? Are you going
to make it through that crucible? And there was.
There was a culture of fitness. They were professional
on the fire side, professional on the EMS side.
They were phenomenal firefighters. And then conversely,
in the worst one, there are people now that if,
God forbid, we have an event in the theme park,
the world -famous theme park they protect. There
are people that won't put the mask on. There
are people that won't go into the building, won't
go towards the people that are wounded after
a shooting, whatever it is. They will turn and
run. And if your family are in that incident,
which of those departments do you want? Ironically,
the city of Anaheim protects Disneyland. Same
company, different dynamic. So this is why I
think it's so important to have these standards
at the highest level. And one of your fellow...
Law enforcement officers from different departments
got into the background check world. And we were
talking and he was saying that it costs on average
half a million dollars to get rid of a single
bad recruit. One. So with this whole, oh, we
don't have the money, like in the fire service
to fund the fourth shift or in law enforcement
to just simply give the training that's needed
and show the support, it's a complete false economy
too. But when you talk about the level of training
that allows you to be compassionate and empathetic
in law enforcement uniform, as these standards
start to diminish, there's a greater and greater
and greater chance that, you know, bad things
are going to happen by law enforcement officers
because they don't have the physical fitness,
the defensive tactics or the moral compass to
do what's right. Yep. Yeah. And that's it. When
I did the prep class. I was solid in the prep
class for about two years. And my wife, who's
still in law enforcement, she compiled because
they were looking at it. Hey, should we continue
this? Because they were saying this is too expensive.
He gets paid OT because I was coming in on Saturday
mornings to train these guys and girls. So they
were like, it's too expensive. And basically
what it was because of how I talked and because
they didn't want me. What was the unduly influencing
academy recruits, which I was like, whatever.
And that's the going back to like my career.
The funniest thing I ever got, I got told many
things about myself, like post when I got transferred.
And when I got finally got transferred to the
gang unit, there was a guy who became major and
he goes, you know why you got transferred to
the gang unit. Right. And I was like. No, not
really. And they were like, well, we wanted to
put you in a place that you only had like three
other people to influence because no matter where
we sent you, no matter where we sent you, we
were guaranteed to get three more of you out
of a squad. And we just can't deal with that.
So that like when I started the prep class, they
wanted to they wanted to kill it like right away.
They were like, hey, it's him. And he's getting
because my numbers were good. I was getting 20
people. uh, two times a week to train. And my
wife actually compiled the statistics on the
people that I trained that eventually went to
the Academy. They were like at a 96 % graduation
rate. So then she brought it to the uppers and
I had, uh, our, our deputy chief was, he was,
he, he had been a mentor of mine forever and
I owe him a lot. And he was like, Yeah, no, we
ain't moving them. The OT is worth it. Like,
this is this is what we want. And what you found
was. Especially these younger kids, their T -shirt
phrases and slogans and like burn the ships and
all this bullshit. Like I was like, you know,
no one's coming to save you. And I do CrossFit.
And right. Like I was like, that's awesome. Like,
what what does that mean to you that no one's
coming to save you? I got to do everything on
my own. I said, well, you're in the wrong profession.
And they would be like, they'd be like, what?
I was like, if you call on the radio and you
say you need me, about 20 of us are coming to
save you. Like that's the gig. If a woman is
being beat by her husband, we're sending like
three units. Like everybody's coming to save
you. Like that stuff is just a slogan. And it's
meant for you to buy t -shirts. It doesn't mean
anything. So they were kind of like, yeah. And
they love that. Like every human loves that,
to be part of something bigger and to know that
there is a standard. And I told my chief, I am
sick and tired of you guys saying we're number
one and then not leaning into it. Or worse, what's
this other department doing? Who cares? Be the
first. And then go to all your symposiums in
Las Vegas at $10 ,000 a pop and tell them you're
the first. Like, that's what people want. They
want to know, can I pass this crucible? And can
I be among the elite? Because, yeah, they may
pass at lower standards. But guess what? A guy
like me, when they see me operate, they're going
to know they passed at lower standards. And all
you're going to get. is a liar who tells himself
oh i'm just like this other guy or someone who
just gets down on themselves because they're
like i i don't measure up so it's better to keep
those higher standards and have it assimilate
and then that's just is your culture like i'm
i'm tired of this how do we build a culture how
from prep class to the background process to
the academy to out of the academy We had the
field training officers and all of a sudden they
took away the pay that was extra for field training
officers. Well, guess what? Now you don't have
a lot of people that want to be field training
officers. So now you have people that just want
to pin and they wanted something that they can
put on their sergeant's resume to go make sergeant.
So now you've lowered the standards there. So
now you have a badass academy graduate who gets
in an FTO's car, who literally tells them, forget
all that academy bullshit. So guess what? You've
just you've just chinked the armor for your culture.
And they they are so far removed in their air
conditioned offices that. Well, and I and then
it becomes a why suffer. They should suffer.
I had a crap FTO. What? That's not your job.
You're not a leader. You're just a supervisor.
And there's no leader and supervisor. And I cannot
stand that aspect of it as well. We just went
through a huge transition where a lot of the
younger officers, because it's hot and humid
here in Virginia, were asking for a change of
uniform because they were still with the old
nylon pleated and they were like, can we get
an outer vest carrier? You would have thought
these kids asked for an $80 ,000 raise tomorrow
with how these uppers were acting. I wore the
uniform. Okay. And? Was it comfortable? Hell
no. Then you're in a position to change it. And
I'm bullshitting you now, James. The quote, and
I almost lost it. I almost fought the dude in
the firearms cleaning area. Well, where does
it end? I was like, huh? Where does it end? They're
going to ask for new cars and new uniforms. Where
does it end? Where does it stop? I said, it doesn't.
It doesn't. If you can do for your people. You
do for your people. Now, if they say, I would
like a 2025 Escalade, then you have to tell them,
hey, no, that's out of bounds. But a more comfortable
uniform, a ball cap in the summertime to keep
the sun out of their eyes, that's not professional.
Look around, man. These kids are raised on GTA
and Battlefield and all those games. They want
to look cool. And that's not a thing. I said
that 100 % is a thing. Let them look cool. Let
them feel good. And guess what? The ones that
don't feel good are going to want to look better
in uniform. They're going to want the cool uniform.
They're going to want the ball cap that looks
good. And I said, you are just hindering the
process because you had a bad process. That's
not leadership. That stalls everything. And I
told him. You're not going to stall it forever
because the good and right idea can only be stalled.
It'll never be stopped. And six months ago, outer
vest carriers, I think they went with Lululemon
pants and a new kind of mesh shirt. They're like
the yoga pants? That would be distracting for
the perp while you throw the cuffs on. I know.
I think they're tack pants. And guess what? you
had a bunch of happy officers and it lends itself
to now I want to do work. I want to get out of
my car. You know, you have nylon pants that are
ready to like spark a fire every time you get
out in 90 degree heat and you're, you're in your
air conditioned office. You might not want to
get out of that car. Well, so we're better in
a foot pursuit. One is more athletic than the
other. So even from a performance point of view,
it makes sense. And, and you, you see it. And
everyone like the one thing law enforcement hates
is change or lack of change. Like and that's
that's like the truism. And they are so they
don't want to be wrong, which means that they
just stall. And the I call them kids, but I told
all the supervisors that I talked to, the kids
didn't do this. They didn't lower standards.
They didn't they didn't get caught doing what
they shouldn't have. You guys did. Like that,
that's on you. I am sick and tired of blaming
a younger generation or kids today. Well, who
raised them? Who taught them? Who were their
examples? Like, look in the mirror. You know,
I, I have five kids. I have had two ex -wives.
I have my third wife, third time's a charm. But
guess what? I had to have honest conversations
with my children about my failings as a man because
I cheated. And that is on me. And I was a coward.
I was a liar. And I was not a good husband. For
me to say anything other is to set myself up
and my children for failure at a later date.
So as young as they could understand. My moral
failings, they were told. Now, I didn't go into
the nitty gritty, but they were told. Guess what?
My first wife, we're best friends. And my second
wife, not so much. But all of my children are
a unit. We're a family. They visit me. They call
me. They look to me. Because I didn't bullshit.
I didn't put myself on a pedestal that I could
easily be knocked down. That's what I tried to
bring to my law enforcement career. I made mistakes.
Here they are. I always tried to correct. I make
amends. And law enforcement for years, for years
was, we got it, we got it, don't worry about
it, don't worry about it. And then what happened?
The information age. And it turned out, most
of what we said, that we can get everybody in
custody in three easy ninja moves. It was bullshit.
And what did we do? In response, we yelled at
the public? We blamed society for changing? No.
That's on us. You knew you were lowering standards.
You knew your DT programs were crap. You knew
a week of physical control in the academy and
then nothing else is probably going to make some
bad habits and make some scared officers do horrible
things. You have to look in the mirror and law
enforcement, especially during the defund arena,
that was a horrendous, way too far to the left
response to real problems in law enforcement.
But where were the chiefs? where were they standing
up and saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
We have some things we need to fix and here are
some reasonable solutions. No, they stuck their
head in the sand and they went with the defund
movement to save their own skins. It was beautiful
watching some of those chiefs kneel. I've got
posters of it on my bedroom wall. Chiefs just
kneeling, you know, because everything is fixed
now. You just went down on one knee. So we don't
need any changes. I'll frame that and then I'll
know my family's safer now. So thank you for
your service. Yep. And to have the empathy and
compassion, we had a huge, we actually had a
riot in a surrounding city that we went to. That
was fun. But in our city, my chief. He was a
black man and he came up in an era where he was
in the 80s and he told me all the horribleness
that he went through on my department where,
you know, they would mess with his car and wouldn't
back him up right away. And he became chief.
He when when all like the BLM stuff and the protests
started happening, I had community members that
were like, hey, we're going to do a vigil. Will
you come? Will you protect it? we're not gonna
we're not gonna do what happened in surrounding
cities the chief was i went to the chief i said
hey i'm getting contacted but he goes all right
i'll be there and then he was there and then
he one of the one of the saddest kind of episodes
in my police career was he saw the need for physical
fitness and for a revamped dt program so he allowed
um The DT program to go DT quarterly, which every
three months was an eight hour block. You could
get OT. We would bring jujitsu instructors. We
would bring strikers like everything. The same
15 officers. We were we were a 400 member complement,
the same 15 officers every time. Right. So when
all this stuff is going on, I kind of see my
end and now I want working out on duty. So I
went to him. And he nailed me. I'm always passionate.
And, and sometimes I go overboard. So I, I corner
him in the hallway and he was great. Like he,
he, he knew who I was. He talked to me all the
time. And I said, I said, chief, can you please
look at setting aside some time for working out
on duty? If the supervisor allows it, blah, blah,
blah. Then he looked right at me. He goes, no.
And I said, chief, like, this is the time he
goes. No. He goes, it's going to be an expense.
You know, there's going to be people that get
hurt. And he goes, I just can't do it right now.
I said, chief, you've got to. He goes, and he
looked right at me. He goes, cool. I gave you
DT quarterly. He goes, you said everybody wanted
that. And I was like, yes, sir. He goes, how
many people come? And I just, he had me. He absolutely
had me. And he goes, I have to deal with a bunch
of stuff that I know you don't care about, but
I have to go to city council and I have to talk
about overtime. And he goes, I'm going to keep
your DT quarterly program because I know some
officers go to it. He goes, but there is no way
that I can expand into a physical fitness program
when I know only 15 people show up to your class
when I've allotted 25 a pop. And you told me
it was going to grow and we were going to need
to add dates. And I just I hung my head. He was
absolutely right. I hated it, but he was correct.
Well, let me ask you this because, you know,
I talk a lot as we were talking again before
we hit record about how. There are some very
actionable solutions to a lot of the issues that
we have, especially in recruitment and retention,
which obviously then feeds into physical and
mental health in the first responder professions.
But in the fire side, you know, the work week
is a huge, huge thing. And now I think we're
up to 10 or 11 departments. Yeah, that's amazing,
by the way. You're doing good work. It's phenomenal.
And every single one of them, I just shared a
video today. They're like, our recruitment's
gone through the roof. And we've got classes
full of veteran firefighters and paramedics.
And so we're seeing an actionable issue there
now. Obviously, law enforcement is a little different.
The work week is somewhat where it should be.
Both of those professions, I would argue, just
as you alluded to earlier. are the most beautiful
and incredible callings, which is why you and
I, even though we're not wearing a uniform, are
still advocating for it. But it's the working
environment. It's the working conditions that
are broken. You're king for a day. What do we
need to do on the law enforcement side to increase
that level of recruitment so that you are able,
once again, to pick that top? 10, 15, 20 % of
the list and get those physically prepared, emotionally
prepared young men and women that are going to
be phenomenal police officers in the future?
Re -institute the full physical complement, which
we have an obstacle course, and then it's push
-ups, the flexibility test. I would do a 300
-meter sprint and then a shuttle run. And they
don't necessarily have to score high on it, score
like an academy would, because there is a physical
test that they have to do three times to graduate
from the academy, although that got fudged a
little lately. So I would implement that. And
I would keep in contact, whether it be by Zoom
calls or phone calls. With the people that are
going through the process, because they limited
the recruiting and the background investigators
so badly that there was no follow up, especially
with the military veterans, because we're a huge
military community. But those guys that are getting
ready to get out in two months, they can't wait
around. They're going to go home. But if you
tell them, hey, we can pre hire you and you can
come do ride alongs. And then I would. re -institute
the prep class um for those people coming out
while they're getting ready to class up that
was the biggest thing we saw to get these to
get these kids i call them kids but they are
kids to me jazzed about what they were about
to do because and and everybody likes to tell
their war stories right but when i was And I
learned from Jeff because Jeff was like, you
get people to assimilate and then it's going
to be the culture before they get into the culture.
Those groups were so tight knit of 20 to 25 individuals
that were consistently coming to the prep classes
that the people that didn't come to the prep
class, you were either going to assimilate into
their academy class or they were going to bounce
you because they weren't going to carry the dead
wood. They would help. They were they were empathetic.
They were compassionate. Hey, this is what you
need to do. This is what we've been doing. Right.
I had kids that would tell me, hey, we just went
on a four mile run around the lake because that's
where they do the mile and a half. They're like,
we all passed it. Like, here are our numbers.
How do I get how do I get stronger? Right. Like
we had a full I was able to build a gym. It took
me a two year fight. But we had a full we have
a full sore next gym at our academy. So that's
where these guys. learn and then they learned
in the prep class you don't have to be like friendly
but you don't have to be an academy instructor
i want to know where you came from because i
know and you know most of the people that get
in this profession come from a place of trauma
and what we want to weed out is the people that
have not come to recognize their trauma and want
to take it out on others And those that have
recognized their trauma and want to prevent anyone
else from going through it. And in that prep
class, that's what we were able to find. We were
able to find the women that their fathers were
abusive or something had happened in their past
and they wanted to help and they didn't have
upper body strength. So now we're, you know,
my wife is a very strong female. So they were
able to find an example. I found kids that didn't
have a good father figure that clearly were looking
up to me. And then I was able to tell them the
funny stories of law enforcement while still
getting the message across. I told them that
not everyone is cut out for this profession and
you may make it. I told them that I have three
hostage rescues under my belt. I rescued nine
people. My first one was a military member. that
there was a lieutenant there that actually was
able to talk to him and we were able to sneak
in and get his son out. I said, but he had us.
He had rifles staged on his bed and he had us
at the bay window, but he heard that man's voice
and we were lucky and then we took him down.
My second hostage rescue, when I went in to rescue
the female, the entire entry team, to include
a canine, didn't go in with me because they were
scared. So I'm literally like trying to pass
this girl off. And I'm like, I'm I'm in here
alone. Right. And then the guy comes to the guy
comes to that. We thought he was armed with a
weapon. The guy comes to the top of the steps
and he has basically a chain wallet. That's what
he was faking. He had a knife against her, but
he had left it. And I said, these are the things
that it's not a normal profession. These are
the things you can counter. And then they're
like, well, what did you do? I said, I told the
guy I had my weapon drawn. And then I knew he
was not armed. I could see his hands. I holstered
my weapon and said, hey, come down to me. You
can take me hostage. And he fell for it. And
then I nailed him on the steps. And exactly that.
So then they start laughing. They're like, holy
cow, this is the greatest job ever. When I went
to the military, you have to get affable officers
who are not just going to tell. the horrible
stories and you don't want to talk about it and
the shit you see. Like I always talk to my, my
family about what I saw. I didn't go into the
nitty gritty, but I spoke and I tell these kids,
talk about it, talk about all of it. If you don't,
it's going to come out in ways that you don't
want it. So that would be the emotional intelligence
piece that can start early. And then in the academy,
you are not their friend. You, you. That's where
the professionalism comes in. You don't let up
on that. And you make them physically hard. But
when they hit their little goals, give it to
them. Tell them that that was hard. You made
it. The best instructors I had in the military
was when I knew I was faltering, but I knew I
was giving my best. Realized it in me and would
just lean down and whisper to me, you got it.
And that was it. That's all I needed. They recognized
me. They saw me. All right, let's finish this,
right? So you have to get the right instructor
cadre. And that's what always ticked me off is
it was always the old boy network. Oh, you went
off the street, go to the academy. And they thought
training was just yelling at people. No, there
is a way to stress inoculate in which sometimes,
yeah, it will be the yelling. Absolutely. Sometimes
it's just going to be that quiet demeanor. And
having that physical presence that literally
scares the shit. And you have to tell them, this
is a suspect. If I was on the other side of the
law and I knew by your countenance right now,
I'm going to take you out. And you have to realize
that. Because the job at its finest is, can you
save a life? Can you take a life? Are you willing
to risk your own to do one or both of those things?
That's the highest end that this can get. And
we just throw that away like we're fighting the
evil you never see. Like that's it's it's crap
because you can go 20 years and never be involved
in any of it if you don't want to. And then after
that, if I was king for a day, every department
should bear minimum five years. No matter who
you are, you are not coming out of uniform patrol.
You're not coming out. Do your five years in
uniform patrol. The way my department got ruined
is favorites were picked, and all of a sudden
at the two -year mark, you're writing these,
they call them PVAs, where the position vacancy
announcements, and all of a sudden you see very
specific things written into that announcement
that you know the 10 people they're getting ready
to pick. That is demoralizing. And it's playing
favorites, and that's the antithesis of what
we should be about, right? I'm not saying it's
totally based on your numbers or your statistics
or whatever. That is horrible as well. But when
you're playing favorites because this person
eats lunch with you, I will never understand
how the uppers think we're that dumb, that we
don't get what's going on. that they're that
insulated. They think, I don't give a shit if
you know what I'm doing or not. Like I'm here,
you're not here. So I would absolutely institute,
you're not going anywhere for five years because
at the three -year mark in law enforcement, you
know your way and you know when you get stuck,
who to ask for help. Like, all right, this is
a complex case. Like I need to call this detective.
He's worked with me. At the five -year mark,
you're the one. Younger officers are calling
and you've pretty much, you know how to solve
a lot of things. And that's when you should start
sergeant, detective, any of those things. Because
when you do it young, it compresses everything.
Because now, let's say you get to the narcotics
unit at three years. Now you've been in there
10 years because you're having fun. Now you know.
Wow, like I'm taking up a spot and I've been
here a long time. So now you're going to do stuff
to avoid getting kicked out of narcotics. That's
no longer the job. Right. And at five years,
nobody's going to question your bona fides because
you've been here for five years. And talking
about the assimilation, it grounds you to that
department. Now, now you've been there five years.
Now you're vested. And when you see that this
applies to everyone. it it it puts morale through
the roof because now you now you know there's
a system in place because all these uppers talk
about well you know we have a process and everything
but then all of a sudden when their buddy gets
on the department or we had a lot of like um
guys who came from the military with specialties
now all of a sudden they're getting plucked for
SWAT they're getting plucked for detective spots
that's crap like that's not fair And that's and
you're demoralizing the vast majority of your
department. So your buddy gets a swing or a female
gets a spot. And now I feel bad for her because
everybody thinks they know why she got the spot.
And she made it. She doesn't deserve that either.
That happens a lot as well. We had we recently
had a supervisor made. And they like went around
and around to get a female captain on our department.
And everybody knew the fix was in. And I love
this girl. She was awesome. She's a good supervisor.
She's a deserved captain. She got it early because
they basically like made a spot, move this person
over here. Now, guess what you've just done.
everybody looks at her jaundiced and thinks,
Oh, this is the only reason you got it. And then
someone like me, that's like, nah, she deserved
every bit of it. But even I was like, they shouldn't
have done it this way because then you still
have old men thinking, well, we, we did it. We,
you know, we're the savior. We made it where
if they had just waited a year, she would have
got it the way she's supposed to. And I would
take away any kind of merit pay or any kind of
bump in. in pay that doesn't affect the entire
department. We used to have a merit pay system
and a major told me I was going to get it and
I refused it. And he flipped his wig. He was
so upset. He was like, what are you doing? I
said, I don't believe in it. And I know what
you're doing. Get us a pay plan. And he was like,
you deserve this. I said, no, I don't. I said,
I'll take that $1 ,000 and divide it among the
400. Give everybody a dollar raise. I don't give
a crap. I'm not taking it. And he was incensed
because what they were doing was they were trying
to give certain individuals this merit pay so
that they would go back and see, oh, I got it.
You got to do this. Like, get rid of all of that
stuff. It should be above board. There should
be boards you go through. There should be more
people in the mix supervisory that say, yes,
we sign off on this. And it's just a fair system.
That's what I would do for King for a Day. And
I would institute pay plans and pay people what
they're worth. I love all of that. Going back
to Second Hostage Rescue, did you then go and
buy a T -shirt saying, actually, no one is coming
to save me? I was in there on my own. Well, so
yeah. So what this was, was there was a female,
she was in the second story. This guy had been
doing cocaine all day and he kept coming out
and he was holding, it wound up being a wallet,
but they thought it was a gun because it was
at night. I was actually coming from the jail
with my buddy and we hear it. I was like, oh,
this sounds cool. And I was just getting ready
to come on the SWAT team and they had done another
hostage rescue. So I'm literally texting my buddies.
I was like, you ain't going to come to this.
I got this. there was a sergeant that was just
kind of lost in the sauce, like couldn't figure
out what to do. So I set up an entry team. We
had canine and I wound up, the guy kept having
to go into a bathroom and he would do snort more
cocaine. She was at the window. I got her to
throw the keys to the apartment down to us. So
I surreptitiously opened the door and then I'm
telling her, I was like, can you get. to the
landing because i opened the door i could see
there was a landing and then i shut the door
again so i got the entry team stacked up she's
like i think i can i was like next time he comes
to the bathroom like go run well she was a larger
gal and he had broken her leg and i didn't know
that she was in a cast so she's he goes back
He comes, threatens her, says he's going to shoot
her, all this stuff. We're like talking. He goes
back in the bathroom to do another bump. And
I said, go now, go. So she goes, I'm going, I'm
going. And then I hear her. I look to the entry
team. And I was like, hey, we're going as soon
as she gets to the landing. So I fling open the
door. And then I see the cast. And she's a big
lady. And she's like not even to the landing
yet. And I'm like, oh, God. And then I hear him.
And he comes running down to the landing. She
kind of stumbles. I come in. She gets to the
bottom. He's frozen on the landing because I
have my weapon out. And then I grabbed her, and
I was like, take her. And she's like, there's
nobody there. And I'm like, what? And I'm literally,
and these are the stories that, like, they're
just, they're awesome. So I have to take my eyes
off him. I'm so pointing. And I take my eyes
off him, and I look around. I'm like, no shit.
Nobody, really? right so i i like grabbed her
and i said get the hostage so then they get her
and he's on the landing now frozen and the the
wallet is swinging so i was like oh you faking
the fun so then i did i so i holstered the weapon
and i told him i said come to me man come to
me you can take me hostage and he's like for
real for real i was like yeah man take me hostage
we got her and he goes all right all right you're
gonna shoot me you're gonna shoot me And I was
like, no, no, no, no, no. Well, he comes down.
Right. The second he comes down the steps, he's
probably like three steps from the bottom. Here
comes the entry team with rifles like all pointed
right at him. And then he's like, you are going
to shoot me. And he goes to turn. And then I
just like speared him on the on the landing.
And then the knife was was in there. And so then
I went over the radio. I was like suspect in
custody. And then I just couldn't help myself.
I was like two L's and cool. And I'm coming out.
I'm getting high fives. And the sergeant comes
up to me and goes, hey, they want to see you
at the command center. And I'm like, what do
they got, like cheerleaders or something? She
goes, I don't think so. And what wound up happening
was the entry team called that they had failed
to make entry. I didn't have my radio on, James.
I'm not saying that's the smartest thing. I didn't
hear that. And when they say they failed to make
entry, no one accounted for me making entry.
So the command center had been set up. They were
they were paging out SWAT and they told them,
do not enter the house. Right. Like they didn't
go anyway. But so they said, do not enter the
house. And I'm taking care of business. So then
the entry team says, we have to enter. Cool's
already in there. We have to enter. So then they
entered. Gun's all blazing. I go across to the
command center. And it's the captain of the SWAT
team that's there. And he's like, what in the?
I was like, hey, hey, hey, hey. I was like, I'm
on the west side. This is the east side thing.
I don't even think my radio was working. That's
on you guys. Our equipment sucks. And I say,
two L's and cool. Write the award. Your guys
didn't have to get up. I heard you had a late
night like two nights ago. And thank God he starts
laughing. And he's like, get out of here. Get
out of here. The chief's coming. Get out of here.
So I was like, OK. So, yeah. So that was my.
Yeah, I guess I should have had a T -shirt made.
And what came out of that was the. A lot of the
younger guys, the canine guy apologized to me,
had the dog apologize to me. And one of one of
the guys, because I had already made a name for
myself and I was different. And don't get me
wrong, like I had an ego on me because it was
a natural offshoot of everyone was telling me
you can't operate like this, like that's not
how cops are, like you're not what we want. So
I was having success and I didn't understand
how. My success is the department's success.
Like, why am I continually being brought into
offices and being told I'm doing wrong? But hey,
get back out there and do it again. It was so
infuriating to me. So I turned off a lot of the
younger officers and that was to my detriment
because I could have been helping a lot more
people a lot sooner. But I was like, it's just
me and everybody can go F themselves. Like, I'm
going to do it, right? And part of my trauma
was I was very self -sacrificial. So part of
me going in like that was I'm already dead anyway.
Like that's and that's how my entire SWAT career.
That's how I thought, because that's how, you
know, Musashi thought and all the warriors thought
like you're already dead. The battle has already
happened. Whatever's going to happen has happened.
So I internalize that like and it made me a better
operator. But sometimes it made me a dick. So
I was like, you guys aren't me. Like, get away.
One of the guys who became my very good friend,
Mike Jones, he came up to me and he goes, I hated
you right before that call. I hated you. And
he goes, all I ever heard was these more cool
stories and cool stories. And he goes, I tell
everybody now, like, you can believe all them
cool stories are bullshit until you find yourself
in the middle of a cool story. And I had a lot
of that because the empathy and compassion led
me like to. to strange places, strange calls
in the middle of neighborhoods, in the middle
of gangs. Like it just finding the good in the
surrounding areas pointed me to cartels, human
traffickers, the worst gang members. The third
hostage rescue I did was I had become friends
with a nine trade gang member who was abducted.
With five members of his family and hold up in
a hotel. And he was texting me during it. And
the other gang members that were literally selling
his stuff on Facebook live because they had orders
from New York. They would never have believed
he was talking to a detective. And I was able
to get him out under a ruse that he was going
to get more money. And then we wound up taking
these guys down. And those guys ate 30 years.
And it was all because this one kid, he watched
his best friend get executed in his driveway.
I probably told this story in the first podcast.
And the detectives that showed up thought he
had to be in on it because he was stone -faced.
He didn't belie any emotions. The rest of the
gang had showed up. They were going to go get
retribution. And the detectives were like, hey,
we're looking at him for this. And I was like,
he didn't do it. And they were like, he's a gang
member. You know, he did. I was like, he didn't
do it. And I said, I got here first. His mother
called me. And when I went up to his room, he
cried on my shoulder for about five minutes.
I held him. And then as soon as he was done with
that, he looked at me and the shark came back
in his eyes. He's like, I got to go downstairs.
I said, all right, I'll go with you. But as soon
as the detective showed up, because in their
minds, someone who saw that doesn't act like
that. But that's your perspective. That's how
you came up. This kid can't show emotion to other
gang members. That's weak. That's soft. And then
he loses his game. And through that interaction
with him, that's what led him to trust me enough
when his life was at risk. Like, I still have
the text messages. That's the one case when I
left, when I retired, I took pieces of that case
because that was. That was me at my best. Because
if I had treated that kid like most officers
would have treated that kid, he would have died.
And that would have been on me. And who knows,
you know, he could have been, you know, involved
in other things. But in that moment, he was a
kid that was worth saving. And I've kept up with
him. He went back to prison, but it was a burglary
that nobody was in the house. So he was pretty
proud of himself. But I keep up with his mom
and stuff like that. And when I retired, talking
about the transition, that's what messed me up
the most. And I didn't think it was going to
happen to me, but it did. So I had my tactical
Instagram. When I retired, they were all asking
me because that Instagram came up because the
people at prep class had a recruiter that was
basically telling them that he offered life coaching
services and all this stuff. And I was like,
what? And they were like, do we have to follow
you on Instagram? I was like, I don't even have
an Instagram. Like, what is Instagram? What are
you talking about? And they were like, well,
we kind of like your philosophy on things. And
it was just, you know, this other guy tells us
that he can do life coaching and he was going
to charge them. And I'm like, what? I was like,
no, I'll start an Instagram. You guys can talk
to me through that. And then what wound up happening
with Tactical, because it's a play on words,
obviously, the kids in the neighborhood started
asking me, you have an Instagram, you have an
IG? And I was like, yeah, it's Tactical. So all
of a sudden I started getting. police recruits
and gang members and everybody would DM me. And
it just kind of, it grew from there. And when
I retired a lot, I called them my little army
and it was, it was kids from gangs. Kids had
been affected from gangs. I got college scholarships
for some of these kids. So I followed them. Some
of them became guidance counselors. Some of them
became teachers. I have one doctor in the mix.
So they were like, hey, you can't drop this.
We have to be able to contact you. And they were
like, can I have your personal number? I was
like, absolutely not. And I said, I'll tell you
what I'll do. I said, I'll retire the Instagram.
I won't post anything because they wanted it
to be theirs. So I said, everything I did with
you guys, that's where it stops. All my phrases,
all my stuff, that's where it stops. I will leave.
The DMs and the stories, and you guys can follow
that, and you guys can talk to me whenever. So
I retired in January, and in February, there
was a really bad incident in my city where a
mom killed her children, and I knew those kids.
And while it was happening, the police, and this
was just a tactical decision. They didn't go
in right away because the offender they felt
was still armed and was directly behind the door.
What they discovered was there was a the young
son might still have been alive because they're
pretty sure they heard screaming and they couldn't
tell whether it was the woman or whether it was
the kid. So police wise, you make those decisions
and you have to live with them. What messed me
up was I'm getting I'm getting I don't know how
many DMs because it was a neighborhood I worked
and they were telling me who the kids were and
they were telling me who the mom was because
I had interactions with the mom. I'd actually
helped her with we have the Buffalo family that
does like homeless stuff and gives food. And
they were they were they were. I apologize, James.
This is going to take a bit. They were begging
me to get out there. And they were telling me
that they knew I would have already been in the
house. And what's going on? And why is this happening?
And they're taking too long. And I just kept
talking to them. And then I started getting contacted
by officers. they're like we miss you we needed
you this isn't this isn't gonna be okay um and
i i'm the guy that like through the 25 years
i never had uh the any kind of mental health
like even with the divorces and all that stuff
the job was my safe place like that's where i
could be better that's where i put All that empathy,
compassion and love like that was that was my
safe spot. Like no matter what I was doing, I
knew I was doing good. I was new. I knew I was
trying to be correct. That's where I could be
my best version. And I never thought I would
be the guy that after it was gone, I would ever
feel useless or worthless or and I felt the most
useless as a human being I've ever felt in my
life. And I knew rationally I was retired. I
earned my retirement. But emotionally, nope.
It's because of that empathy, because of that
compassion, because of that love, and because
the juxtaposition of, I knew why the police were
doing what they were doing, because it's risky.
And I know why these people in the neighborhood
are like, you need to get out here. They're doing
this wrong. And while one was a huge compliment
to me, the other was me realizing that how I
approached it is not the only approach, right?
Like my 30 seconds of calculated crazy, it's
not tactical. It isn't. It's nothing I would
put on someone else. And this is where I get
mad at some of the Monday morning quarterbacking
from people that were like, just because it works
doesn't mean that it's a good tactic. But it
worked. And, and sometimes that's the play 30
seconds of calculated crazy solves a lot of shit,
but it's, it's nothing that you can teach courage
isn't a tactic, but it should be in us. So it
just, it crushed me. And then, and then I wanted
to get rid of my Instagram and I wanted to stop
talking to everybody. And my wife was like, you
can't do that. And she's like, take. Take time.
And what wound up happening, James, was everything
you hear about people that are in crisis. For
the next, like, I have a lot of animals and I
live out in the country. I have a gym totally
outside. I stopped. I stopped. And I would tell
myself, you got to work out today. And I was
like, nope. And my daughter, who's like me, she
just graduated from Virginia Tech. I didn't want
to talk to her. And that's when I knew I was
like, all right, we're faltering here. Like something's
goofed. And for about almost two months, I just
got up and I would sit in a chair and I would
doom scroll and then get off it. And then it
just kept getting worse and worse and worse.
And luckily for me, because I listened to people
who had been through it, I had been through courses.
It wasn't unknown to me. I didn't consider myself
weak. I went and I saw my doc and I said, hey,
here's what's going on. And talk therapy really
didn't doesn't really do much to me. But what
I wound up getting, I got on some antidepressants,
got some sleep meds and then weaned myself off
as it as it started getting better. And that's
just my route. But people need to realize you
have to you have to realize like I knew and it
was because. 30 years ago, we didn't discuss
that stuff. You just ate it and maybe you swallow
your service weapon, maybe you get drunk, maybe
you don't. Because of all the advancements and
these are the signs, and I did not consider myself
weak. And the second part, I didn't consider
myself a burden. I knew offloading this to my
wife, talking to some friends, forcing myself
to be vulnerable. I wasn't being a burden to
anybody. It was the people that loved me. And
I listened to all this as a police officer. I,
I didn't, I didn't ever make a gang member feel
that he was a burden to me because, Hey, I'm
criminally minded, but here's what I want to
tell you. All right, I'll listen. And I'm going
to try to make corrections where I can. And I'm
not always going to agree with you, but I need
you to talk to me. So that, that was, and I never,
like the ego part of me was, that was a part
of the. the three weeks of not wanting to realize
it. Because I was like, no way, no way. 25 years,
I didn't have this problem. One of the last things
that happened when I was at the command is my
best friend got busted in fraud and got arrested.
Like that, I was good. The guy I rolled with
wound up, he's in prison right now because he
was abusing his stepdaughter. That threw me for
a loop, but I was able to, like the job, I'm
doing the job. Not being in the job and not being
able to affect anything in that course of action
crushed me. And it's not quite the same as the
job is your identity, but it was part and parcel
to that. I was internalizing I should have been
there. I could have been there. Did you retire
too early? Is this what happened? And I just
never thought that that would be me, but it was.
And thankfully now, like, you know, I'm on the
mend. And then I started getting serious about
my neck and fixing everything. And it kind of
it kind of opened me up. And now I'm on a routine.
I get I get my purpose. You know, I have my my
youngest son. And I, I feel, I always felt for
officers that, that, that happens too. Um, but
now I have, and now I have another, another arrow
to, to help somebody else with if, if they have,
and I have officers talk to me all the time about
retirement and the transition and stuff like
that, but I never thought that was, that was
going to occur. And it did. And it, and the universe
always, every time you think you got it, you
got to figure it out. Like. It'll show you. No,
you don't. So I don't want to go through anything
like that again. But yeah, it was an eye -opener.
And that was like two months into my retirement.
I've said this on here quite a few times. One
of the most crushing things in uniform is the
inability to save. Simply, and I've said this
many times, I was a complete black cloud. So
not only did I have a lot of horrible shit, but
I never had a cardiac arrest safe in 14 years,
not one. And most people have at least one or
two to hang their hat on. And then even with
that purpose, what we're able to do while we're
on an ambulance, in a fire engine, working in
a squad car. You have the tools, you have the
team to really facilitate these issues. And I
had an experience working a cardiac arrest on
a plane about a year and a half ago in the tarmac
of Heathrow Airport. I didn't have any of that.
And that was, again, like crushing because I
know if we'd had that team, the outcome might
have been the same, but that person would have
had the full gamut of what you need to do to
respond to a cardiac arrest. And instead, we
had this kind of dripping of... some of the right
equipment some of the wrong equipment working
them in the middle of an aisle of a plane um
with only one person that works in emergency
medicine on the whole plane um so you know it's
that that purpose i think is It's hard to transition
to like, how can I still have that purpose but
be in this new phase? I'm not wearing the uniform
now. You know, what does that look like now?
But I think that transition also bolsters that
empathy like you're talking about. Every time
you've worked through one of these challenges
and you come out the other side, you're able
to be more empathetic. So you had that empathy,
that compassion when you were working in the
uniform. But now this next crucible that you
had to work through. When you hear that people
are struggling with their transition, you're
like, well, I've been there too now. I can empathize.
So it does become a beautiful strength. But the
key is obviously, as you said, recognizing it
early enough and then understanding that. the
toolbox to work with this is so huge and it could
just be, you know, some antidepressants and sleeping
pills for a bit. It could be an Ibogaine journey.
It could be equine therapy. It could be a number
of those things, but that, you know, that hope
of working through and that post -traumatic growth,
I think that is so important in a transition
story because you're still that same kind, compassionate
human being. You're still that warrior in the
garden, but your garden has changed. Yep. Yeah.
And that was, Like even even getting getting
the because, you know, medicine is taking a hit.
I never had a primary care doc. I just I just
didn't. So getting on an age, I got a primary
care. And then when I when I spoke with her,
I said, listen, I I need to feel this out. And
if you're not the one, you're not the one. She
was awesome. She she literally told me. what
we're going to do is we're going to get, you
know, low dose and this. And she goes, I work
with a lot of you just because the area, like
we're in Virginia beach. So there's military
law enforcement, everything. And she said, and
she asked diet, well, how's your sleep? And she
goes, are you working out? And I said, I've stopped
working out. She goes, all right, what we're
going to do is, and then she asked me about talk
therapy. And I said, I was, I was mandated to
go through it because of some of the incidents.
I said, it didn't really. Do anything for me.
I don't know whether it was the vibe or whatever.
So she goes, I want to go low dose. And she goes,
you have to promise me you're honest with me.
And she goes, and I want you to start working
out. What do you enjoy? And I told her, I was
like, I enjoy training. She goes, have you trained?
I said, no. She goes, I, as much as you can force
yourself back into that routine. And that was
the game changer was going on the low dose, figuring
out. And then I just, it just. built on itself.
And she was awesome. And she was like, all right,
now we're ready to pull you off this. And we're
going to try that. And that was, that was absolutely
game changing. So, and that was just my journey.
And I've had other officers. They continually
ask about how's retirement. Are you ready for
retirement? And that's the saddest thing. I'm
sure you find it in the fire service. I don't
know why these guys think it's going to last
forever, but that's. That is the biggest conversation
I've had because I retired young. I retired at
50 on the dot. And I had already socked away
enough money in my ICMA account that that's my
passive income. And then I have my pension, obviously.
And that was the goal. And I talked to guys that
are already 30 years in. There's nothing. You
know it as well as I do. We have guys that retire
and five years later, they're gone. And it's
money troubles. It's alcohol troubles. We've
had several suicides. And I tell people, if you're
not prepared for that, for like having enough
money or having a secondary job or what do you
want to do? And a lot of guys I talk to, they're
like, I don't know. I say, we better figure it
out. Because I knew I wanted my garden. I knew
I wanted. That was it. I didn't want to work
anymore unless I wanted to. You know, I talked
to Jeff and Jeff's in Alabama now. Maybe I go
down there and help out. But I wanted to retire,
retire. The thing that got me was. And I'll never
fully do it because I promised the kids that
I came up with. I didn't divest myself. So when
that incident happened, that broke me. because
i felt useless and you always say oh well the
jobs shouldn't be your identity and your purpose
but it's in me and i didn't recognize how much
it was in me until people needed me and i didn't
have the ability to flick my lights on and go
100 miles an hour and get to so that is part
of that's in me so that's what threw me but a
lot of the guys i talked to they're just They're
absolutely scared of retirement because they
haven't prepared themselves properly, whether
it be emotionally, financially, to take that
step. And then what makes it sad about that is
now you're just eating up a spot. You're past
50 in this job. You're not what you used to be.
And you're stopping somebody else from growing
in the profession. That bugs me. Like, you should
be ready to step out. Because I knew when it
was my time, I'm in the gang unit. That's a huge
spot. That's an awesome spot to have. As soon
as I could, I'm going to step away. And I was
lucky where I had the people that were going
to take my spot there. It didn't pan out the
way I wanted it. But I did everything I could
to teach them my way. And this is how you get
the intel. This is how you get into the community.
And I was able to know that, I mean, the uppers
wind up killing it. But my spot was secure with
someone that I knew. And I think that makes a
huge difference. Because you've hit on it so
many times. And I love what you're doing. And
I love seeing it grow in the books and everything
that you're growing. There is no higher calling
or no higher compliment than to be called teacher.
And when you get to that point in your career,
if you're not that, you're not doing it right.
Whether by your example or by you actually pulling
somebody aside and saying, hey, this is how we
can do this better. That's how it's supposed
to be. And then when you step into your garden,
you... There's no regrets there. There's no pulling
you back. My incident was members of the community
that still wanted me in the community, but I
have no regrets about how I exited, how I transitioned,
because I did it to the best of my ability. And
when you give your all, when you have that empathy,
compassion, and love as much as you can have
it, because I'm not saying I'm perfect. There
were days where I wanted to punch the average
citizen in the mouth just like everybody else,
but I didn't. When you give it your all, there's
no looking back. I am supremely fortunate to
have had the longevity in my career that I did,
to have all the experiences I did, even while
hurt. So I gave it my all. I was ready. I feel
bad for the people that probably are ready, but
just don't think they are. And they can't give
it up. So that's, you know, king for a day. I
would also tell people start putting the retirement
account to use. Let the city help you out and
get an end date because you can't be here forever.
Nobody can. Absolutely. Well, obviously, the
theme of this whole conversation has been having
the strength to be compassionate, empathetic,
to forge community, to be your mentor. Yet when
I look at. A lot of the discussions that have
happened the last few years and people think
it's so funny, like if I if I was talking about
vaccine mandates, oh, I'm a I'm a right wing,
whatever. And then I'm talking about Gaza. Oh,
you're a left wing, whatever. I'm like, dude,
in the middle of the normal fucking people, you
know, that sometimes lean slightly this way or
this way. But it's about kindness, compassion,
empathy, community. But I see so much nastiness.
I see an inability to critically think and say
something as. neutral as for example in gaza
the innocent people that were killed on october
7th is horrendous the innocent people that are
being killed since is also horrendous you know
that there are some immigrants in this country
that have broken the law that absolutely need
to be deported but then this snatching of children
and parents you know with basically no criminal
record is horrendous so I see this, like, if
you don't pick a side, if you're not in one of
the World War One trenches, then you're the most
demonized censored group, the common sense, neutral,
kind, compassionate, you know, community minded
people. And that is like the heresy. It has been,
you know, during COVID talking about underlying
conditions. Maybe we should address the obesity
epidemic while we're going through this. So,
you know. I know that you and I have got very
similar kind of perspectives on some of these
areas on a macro level now, nationally and even
internationally, because it nauseates me to see
British police arresting peaceful elderly protesters,
you know, that are against the genocide of children,
for example. What is your perspective on that
loss of community, empathy, compassion, even
though I would argue it's still the minority
that we're seeing? And how do we bring that back
into our own nations again? The macro level,
I mean, it still speaks to the micro of it, of
how everything operates, because your sphere
of influence is going to be your family and then
your community and how you operate within them.
What I see on the macro is we as a society, the
extremes used to just kind of be laughed off
and all right, it doesn't matter. And then the
information age and social media, and then it
became amplified. And then it became monetized.
And people will say, well, your side's making
money off this and not look in the mirror. Then
it becomes the both sides argument. And they're
like, well, no, my side got hit. And empathy
and compassion and love, they don't have sides.
Can I objectively look at what's going on and
come to an objective conclusion? The Gaza thing.
Yes, October 7th happened. It was horrible. Absolutely.
Israel went to war. Israel has a right to defend
itself. Israel has a right to retribution, whatever
you want to say. However, now you're just blowing
up buildings and you can't even account for the
people that are in the rubble right now. And
your official count is that 67 ,000, but the
unofficial count when they get into this rubble
may be 250, 300 ,000. And you, and when you say
that seems, that seems extreme. Then you're shouted
down and you're called an anti -Semite or whatever
it is. But then the flip side of it now is there
is an entire side that is saying Israel controls
the world. Israel tells the United States what
to do and you fund them. And when I get in those
arguments and I say, yeah, but you know who's
benefiting from hitting Hamas and Hezbollah?
Who? The Saudis. Huh? Yeah, Sunni Shia. I was
like, they want Iran taken out. Those are their
proxies. Israel's doing their bidding because
they're not really coming out and saying anything
against it either. But they're lowering the oil
prices for the United States. And the United
States keeps sending bombs over. And then people
are like, because they want binary. They want
the yes or no. They want the black or white.
They don't want nuance. And we talked about it
earlier. There was an opportunity for the UN
to have a safe zone. but it would have required
United States troops with UN support. And then
we ixnated because we don't want skin in that
game, but either side wants to yell at each other.
But, you know, and it's been getting progressively
worse because we've been, it's the strangest
thing, James, because as connected as we can
be with the internet, we've become more disconnected
with everything. It's the craziest phenomenon
ever. You talked about COVID. I kind of vacillated
between I'm all about the vaccine. I don't think
it was a microchip in our head or anything like
that. And when I started seeing all these crazy
notions and the VA or the VAERS information,
you know who I was able to get in contact with
over the Internet? Scientists. a lot of scientists.
I still talk to scientists. There's unbiased
PhD, nini in the brain, gnarly by nature. I talk
to them and I listen to them because they're
experts. And all of a sudden we do our own research
and that blows my mind. No, you don't do your
own research. Research takes a really long time.
You got to be really smart to do it. We don't
do our own research. We gather resources, we
gather information, and then we should critically
think and come to the best conclusion that we
can. With the Gaza stuff, how is it controversial
to say you should stop blowing up innocent civilians?
And then all of a sudden you're... You're flip
crazy and you're anti -Semite. But then, like
I was saying, there's an entire faction now that
is anti -Semitic that is saying they're controlling
and, you know, they control finances and all.
I was like, we are literally falling for the
same tropes that were used to start a world war.
And and the other being like it's it amazes me
that it's the same playbook. find another direct
everyone's anger towards the other and just double
down on it whether it be immigrants or jews or
muslims we keep doing the same thing and then
the centrists in us that are like well hey now
i know a muslim now i know a jew like that's
that's not that's not how they think that's not
what's going on so now there's this huge conflict
and people are just I've never seen a citizenry
so proud of their ignorance, so proud of their
bullying power. And we elected someone who, whether
he means to or not, it is almost like he's given
tacit permission for us to be our worst selves,
because that's the example he puts out there.
to take revenge, to destroy your enemies, to
go after other, all that type of stuff. And it's
wrong. It's not what we would teach our children.
We should teach our children to look at what's
happening in Gaza and be absolutely appalled
that war is an absolute failure. That's all it
is. It's human failure at its worst. And I don't
understand how it's it's so polarizing and it
shouldn't be like you're not. The Ukraine thing,
you know, that that we turned on Ukraine and
then all of a sudden here we are nine months
in and then, hey, maybe Putin isn't like on the
level with us and maybe he is like a despot.
And I'm like, are you kidding me right now? I
have arguments with. with my friends that are
that are still in the military or that exited
the military that go back to iraq and afghanistan
they're like you think that was a good war i
was like no well while we went i was like there
were voices in opposition for both of those wars
just because you didn't want to listen to them
doesn't mean they didn't exist and now all of
a sudden because You got lied to for 20 years.
Now, everything that never happened. Nobody was
ever in opposition to this. The government is
evil. The government is the government. And the
government does nefarious things to protect us,
to further our agenda and to get you cheap things
at Walmart. And all of a sudden now you want
to destroy the government. But you have no replacement.
You're just yelling. You don't want them to do
this. You don't want them to do that. But you'll
still vote in the same person. And it's just
disconcerting to me. You talked about critical
thinking. I think there's a complete lack of
it. And again, it goes to we blame children,
kids today, and this and that. Well, who are
their examples? Who raised them? And who are
they looking to right now? We have absolutely
since since Obama was elected, our politics have
just gotten more divisive, more corrosive. And
this is what these kids grew up with. While simultaneously
being told America did a really good thing because
we voted in a black man. So all that stuff should
that's over now. But then they listen to everyone
rip that black man to shreds every chance they
got. for wearing a tan suit, for not doing things
correctly. And then we just way on down the line.
Now the natural recourse to that, we elected
a bully who is in the same stead as any other
authoritarian figure where I'm the only one that
can solve this. And these are our friends. You
know, Israel is our friend. You can't say anything
against them. And if you do. We're going to we're
going to censor you. But I believe in free speech
as long as it's on my terms and I'm attacking
intellectuals and you're smart. People are going
to college or not. And it's just it blows my
mind. And and I go back to the micro version
of it is I told you the only thing I can do is
teach my sons. And I don't really have to teach
my daughter now because she's. My hope for the
future is talking to my daughter and her friends
because they literally look at us, James, like
we are absolute dinosaur idiots. My daughter's
friends, she has a political science degree in
international law. She's going to take her LSATs.
She's probably going to save the world. Her friends
are bioengineers. One of her friends is an architect
who literally goes to New York at 23 years of
age and designs furniture. They are amazing.
They don't get us. They don't understand why
it is not okay to say what is happening in Gaza
is not okay. It blows their mind. It blows their
mind. What I've said many, many times is if you
just pull the focus back, again, that middle
ground. For example, when I was saying during
COVID was... This is obviously a real disease.
And I had, you know, physicians and all kinds
of people that were witnessing, you know, firefighters
that were in these hot zones where, yes, lots
of people were dying. And the vaccine, if nothing
else, was seeming to be a symptom reducer. You
know, it was saving some people. But simultaneously,
equally also a truth is that we are a very sick
nation. And the underlying ill health of the
American people was really why we lost so many
people. So those two exist side by side. Now
you expand that out politically. Firstly, out
of 340 million people, you are telling me that
Joe Biden and Donald Trump are the fucking pinnacle
of leadership. If you can look in the fucking
mirror and say that to yourself, then A, that
illustrates the mental health crisis that we
have in this country, and B, you're a fucking
idiot. Because like I said, the problem is we
have a broken system. And I've said this many
times. If you have to be basically a million
or billionaire and be devoid of ethics, meaning
you will take lobbyists' money to get in that
position. So that eliminates the real leaders
of the world. So what we get, whether it's left
and right, Fox News or CNN, Trump or Biden, is
it's like expecting a cupcake in a turd factory.
The same fucking machine is churning out these
pieces of shit. One's wearing a blue tie, one's
wearing a red tie, but they are the same kind
of horrible human being. To pick on the Biden
administration, the way they handled that COVID
pandemic, the fascism that came out of that.
Everything that Americans were told to do is
the polar opposite of what they should have been
told to do. Stay inside, order fast food, order
alcohol, binge watch the Tiger King, and don't
see your family and friends. Like, disgusting.
They cause more fucking lives. And at the end
of it, do we want to revisit it and learn from
it? No, no, no, no. We don't want to talk about
it anymore. So Instagram's going to censor you
if you say vaccine or COVID or, you know, mask.
And so this is the thing. Like, people have to
look. Over the last few decades, the obesity
crisis has got worse. Our prisons have got fuller
and fuller and fuller. The mental health, the
opioid crisis, the gang membership, all these
things have got worse and worse. And that is
left, right, left, right, left, right. So there's
only one truth that the way that we choose these
people is fucking broken. And the same kind of
sociopath that seems to succeed in that arena
rises up. Every single time. And look at the
fucking idiocracy that we have at the moment.
The clowns are doing their social media WWF presentations
to the military or whoever it is. Like, you know,
the post that I made recently that angered some
of some of the people I had on the show who I
just don't understand how, you know, you can
be that kind of person that had the service,
you know, in their heart. And some of them even
had near death experiences. and then just be
all in on one of these particular people. But
I've kind of lost my train of thought now. I
went off on a tangent then. But the point being,
if we've deviated from the health of the nation,
the mental health of the nation, the safety of
the nation, because 70 % obese or overweight
equals a very, very unsafe country, because now
we only have, I mean, it's like... I think it's
just above single figures that are even eligible
for military, police, fire, EMS, from what I
understand, because of the health of the... So
this is the point, is that the only people losing
are the people. And one of my guests said a long
time ago now, and it was such a beautiful kind
of illustration. They said, imagine you're in
a medieval village and you've got two groups
of peasants arguing with each other. He said,
where are they not looking? The castle. That's
it. Mic drop moment. They do not work for the
country. We've got it so turned around. These
people we employ with our taxpayers' money to
run certain areas, to be diplomats between different
countries, to avoid wars, to encourage trade.
And instead now, as you said, both sides, the
last decade plus, it has been a dictatorship.
I'm in charge. This is what you're going to do.
And until we have an awakening that A, You want
to change the world, start a home. That means
work on your own shit. Because if you will die
on your sword for Joe Biden or Donald Trump,
trust me, you've got some fucking work to do
in the mental health space. Then you fucking
work on your family and then you step outside
your front door like we've been talking about
and you become a mentor in your community. Whether
you're going to teach young kids how to change
a tire or you're going to start a fire academy
prep program or whatever it is, if we all did
that, you would literally you truly would make
this country great again but all these phrases
these t -shirts like you said from these politicians
are empty because we are getting fatter sicker
and more divided and that spans both sides of
the aisle yep and we we like the covid thing
we conflated government like ineptitude and inefficiencies
And then we linked it with the science and the
medical practitioners who were literally dealing
with a pandemic that was brand new. And they
were trying to figure stuff out. All the politicians
wanted was the soundbites. Biden telling people
that you were going to kill everybody if you
went to Christmas dinner. Like you could watch
the CDC director go, what? And just the same
as when Trump was talking about maybe they can
go in and do a cleaning and they're like putting
there. But we conflated the two. And now we don't
believe any of the institutions, even the poor
scientists that were like, hey, and this is this
is what drives me crazy about critical thinking.
During the COVID pandemic, they were getting
information fast and furious. And some people
were not like getting the vaccine and not getting
like not doing mass and 95 and all that stuff.
They had to deal with all that data. So guess
what? Science is going to change. Politicians
are uncomfortable with that. The American public
cannot deal with that because they're like, well,
you just and we have to get better at not conflating
a politician's stance being left or right with
actual science, actual experts, because now nobody
believes anybody. And there are people in the
government that do try their best, but they are
the. the quietest voices because they don't have
the millions and millions of dollars. Citizens
United was the worst Supreme Court decision ever
because it allowed dark money and super PACs
to fund all these elections. And look at what
happened even with something as non -controversial
and bipartisan as AOC and Hawley coming out and
saying no more individual stock trades. You have
to have a regular portfolio that is directed
by somebody else and you have no say in it or
you don't do it at all. And it is absolutely
stalled. That tells you that there are middle
of the road. No matter what you think of Hawley
or AOC, they are trying to present what America
wants and they're being stymied. I think America
also wants to see the Epstein list from both
sides. Absolutely. But that was the ultimate
pendulum. That was like a magic trick. It was
amazing. Like, you know, what's in my hand? Oh,
nothing's in my hand. Now I'm in power. But wait
a second. Time out. Yeah. And the mere fact that
like it kills me. Right. Because I voted for
Trump twice because I wanted the grenade thrown
because I wanted Congress to start doing their
job. And I grew up with him. My dad was a UPS
driver. He knew all about him in the 80s. And
like. Sammy the Bull, all those guys. So when
he ran, I knew what he was. I knew he was bombastic.
I knew his ego. I knew he was petulant. But I
also knew I generally think in his own little
way, he cares about America. He thinks he's right.
But Congress has totally abdicated the responsibility
of checks and balances. They don't pass legislation.
They don't put clean bills up. They do backdoor
deals. And I thought. They're going to have to
come in and give him guardrails. Right. And and
he was like, I wanted the border secure. I got
people that are putting themselves at risk. It
was it was horrendous what was going on. So I
voted for and I wouldn't vote for Hillary if
I had a gun to my head. So I voted for him. And
then I didn't want Biden because Biden, like
Biden's been in politics longer than I've been
alive. That's ridiculous. So I voted for him
again. And then Biden won. And I believe Biden
won. And then because Trump is never going to
admit failure. But then when January 6th happened,
he lost me. Like, I don't care. Well, yeah, that
didn't that didn't happen, though. Neither did
the insurrection. That was all just fake news.
It was it was all the FBI. They did it all. Well,
but here here to that point, I read. jack smith's
report when it was when it was out there is no
longer available but i read it it wasn't so much
about the the rioters when you read about the
fake electors and what he was trying to push
the doj was ready to include bar who eventually
resigned they were all going to resign because
he was counting on fake electors saying that
there was there was like all this stuff when
you read jack smith's report and they were going
to see the voting machines There was a joint
chiefs who was unnamed, but would testify if
necessary, that when he found out what was going
on, walked into the Oval and told him, if you
do this, my men will hang you in the street and
then turned heel left. And then all of a sudden
the conversation changed and then they put it
on Pence and they were hoping Pence would say,
oh, yeah, this is all fake. And I do not believe
in Pence's politics, but Pence is an American
hero. because he stood up for the Constitution
that day. That's my take on it. And Mike Pence,
when he ran for president, I would rather have
him all day long than any of the other challengers,
because I know his religious views, but he was
not going to impart them on America. He was going
to try and convince America that his stance on
abortion and his stance on reproductive rights.
was was correct not to force it down so i have
mad respect for him and then obviously he gets
he gets back in and the all the the epstein stuff
starts happening he ran on that and then all
of a sudden he's just like what epstein files
like and and you still have people that they'll
they'll just turn a blind eye to that And I didn't
give a crap about the Epstein files in my I've
worked human trafficking cases. And I was telling
people, I don't think there's necessarily a list.
I think the victims know who they were farmed
out to. And I think it was just. crimes of opportunity.
Epstein wanted to get in with big people because
he was trying to make his billions. He was doing
real estate deals, all this stuff. And I said,
that's how human trafficking works because human
trafficking used to be called prostitution. And
that's what this was. It was a giant prostitution
ring. And I, and I told people his name's all
over that list. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I
was like, you're out of your door. And then I
literally had to send people when the pictures
of him, I was like, here's another picture. Here's
another picture. And they were dumbfounded. I'm
like, do you guys don't even look into any of
this stuff? Just look at the footage of when
he visited the UK. They had that picture plastered
on castles and football pitches. It was beautiful.
And I'm like, how do you suspend disbelief so
much that you are willing to just give the benefit
of the doubt? Maybe he didn't do anything criminal.
None of us can say. But he definitely was around
the man like that was his buddy. And now he's
not releasing any of it. And we're just it's
it's like we play pretend. And it in the micro
version, I watched that in law enforcement where
we knew that these neighborhoods were in distress
and that there was a better way to go about policing.
But we just pretended. No, we don't have the
resources. We don't have this. It just permeates.
And then that becomes the status quo. And that's
where we're at right now, where the status quo
is. Whoever's got the money is going to going
to be the candidate and we can stop it. Like
I get so frustrated. The whole thing, the whole
the whole point of America. Was we're self -correcting
the founders. I have to believe they knew their
flaws because that's the government they made.
A government of amendments, a government that
had checks and balances. They knew human flaws.
And now all of a sudden we want to rest the power
in one individual, whether it be Democrat or
Republican. That's not what this is supposed
to be about. And it's supposed to be about an
educated citizenry. You can say whatever you
want about the Second Amendment. They don't fear
our guns. They fear our votes. And it burns me
up when people like your voting doesn't matter.
If voting doesn't matter, why is that the thing
they constantly go after? They gerrymand their
districts. They try to restrict it or they try
to open it. If it didn't work, they wouldn't.
take the time to mess with it so much. There
is so much power rested in the American public
that we just set aside because we're convinced
our guy is the savior. And it just drives me
crazy because the entire experiment rests upon
the fact that we were to educate ourselves and
want better for next generations. And I think
for the first time in our history, We're not
leaving it better than we found it. And and that's
it's sad. And and especially with the 250th anniversary
coming up, we're going to have idiocracy in charge
who's printing their own coin or whatever they're
going to do. And we we should take that as a
sign that we made it 250 years. So government
is not only necessary, it can do good. It has
done good. As long as we watch it like a hawk.
And that's what we're supposed to do. We're not
just supposed to take their word for it. But
when they're on the right track or when the experts
all come to a consensus, we need to back them
up. And then we need to, like, our voice is our
vote. And I just, I don't know. I mean, I do
know how we got to this point. But it's so eminently
fixable. And we just like you said, the middle
week, unfortunately, what's going to have to
happen is the centrist in the middle. And we're
not necessarily prone to it. We're going to have
to start shouting down the left and the right
and tell them to sit down, shut up. The adults
are in the room now. That's the only thing that's
going to make a huge difference. And I think
we have a shot at it because the people that
that voted for Biden. Some of them have come
around to the fact that we probably shouldn't
have put a zombie in office. And the people that
voted for Trump, especially the farmers, they're
like, hold up a second. You're going to bail
me out with tariff money that I'm already paying
because of what you did starting a trade war.
And you just gave $20 billion to a guy who just
undercut our soybean sales. I think we got a
shot. We always have a shot. And America, like
Winston Churchill said it best, America will
always do the right thing after exhausting all
other options. I think we're there, James. Well,
I mean, you said about Hillary, I agree 100%.
And this is the point. Sadly, that was the election
that I was first able to vote in. Actually, I
think I just missed that. So it was the vibe.
Anyway, I did independent because I'm like. I
see what everyone is saying. This is the lesser
of two evils. Now, let's do the math again. 340
million people. And the two you have to choose
from are the lesser of two evils. That shows
you that it's a completely broken system. But
I am quietly optimistic. I'm loudly optimistic.
What am I talking about? I just get angry about
it. i believe there is an awakening and i think
this is why there's this doubling down on all
the things that are distractions i mean even
you know i don't want to take a deep dive into
this but the whole charlie kirk assassination
you know how convenient now was it actually someone
who was very anti -right and that was it or was
it something that ended up being more of a jfk
-esque conspiracy to keep focus on this this
one side you know every time a good analogy the
There was a shitbag here in Gainesville, a preacher
that was burning the Quran a few years ago. And
when it happened, as soon as I saw this story,
I'm like, I bet you that motherfucker has just
written a book. This is just about book sales,
money. That's it. Sure as shit. There's, you
know, what it's like being a giant prick or whatever
his book was called had just come out. And that
was it. He was just pulling that kind of, you
know, in that case, Islamophobic, you know, thread
so he could get all these extremist Christians
to buy his shitty book. And this is the point
is, you know, every time that the community,
the compassion, the empathy starts to grow in
the middle, we have this extremist event, the
insurrection, whatever it is. And it is a distraction.
It absolutely is. And this is the left and the
right. They play the same fucking game. CNN and
Fox are the same fucking blueprint. Open your
eyes. It's to sell advertising space. That's
it. So to me, we have to resist these kind of
outlier extremist events and not be distracted
from the biggest truth. We have to make America
healthy again. I think someone mentioned that
about a year ago and fuck all this happened on
that side. So we have to make America healthy
again. We have to address the mental health crisis.
We have to address our schools so that we can
raise kind, compassionate. fit healthy children
that know what real food looks like these are
all within our powers in our community but the
moment that these extreme events happen just
like you said it's because they're scared because
when we come together again i think there's a
document somewhere that says we the people i
forget what it's called when we come together
again A lot of people have that tattooed on them,
but don't really read the rest of it. No, or
don't tread on me. You know, I think you're being
treaded on. You're being stomped on right now.
So but yeah, but I mean, you know, sarcasm aside,
the answer is community, compassion and empathy
and kindness, just like we've been talking about
this whole two hours. And I think that the more
we can lean into what we know is true, the more
that we can lean into what Jesus actually would
have done and Buddha and, you know, all these
other, you know. prophets that preach kindness
and compassion and community when we refocus
on what they have been telling us all this ancient
wisdom for millennia we're going to take this
back but if we allow ourselves to be stuck in
the world war one trenches of extremism we might
lose our country so the choice is ours yeah and
and what it allows like we that that's kind of
been the theme but when you live with empathy
compassion and love What it allows in is that
loud optimism. Like you realize you're not your
first thought. You realize that what your biases
are and you put yourself in check before anybody
else has to. And, and you said it with, with,
is this kind that it's, it solves, it solves
a lot of internal issues with us when we when
we try to live that way and and it's what we
want when when we're down in the dumps and we
can't and because i tell my sons this all the
time like when the world makes no sense to you
when you're angry because your your brain is
not helping you out that's when you need community
the most that's when you need to talk to your
dad that's when you need to talk to your mom
but everything about you is going to tell you
not to but you need to and But when you have
somebody telling you the world doesn't make sense
and it's because of this person or that person,
then you don't have to look inward. You don't
have to you don't have to make that change. You
don't have to be better because there's something
else to blame. And then your identity becomes
wrapped up in left, right instead of best and
good. Yeah. And, you know, that I. the best thing
I talked about being a teacher and that's the
best thing I ever was able to do to officers.
Like you're going to have those moments where
your bias is going to come out and you have to
put yourself in check. And that comes from you're
scared. And once you do it and you practice it,
then you get back to my fear is, is constructive.
It's, it's telling me I'm in a dangerous profession,
but I don't run around scared. Then you're not
scared of the other and you're not scared of
anything that's going to make you do something
that you can't take back. And that's where we're
at. That's the tinderbox we're sitting on to
the macro. Eventually, there's going to be something
that a group can't take back and either side
is looking for it. One of the most hopeful things
I've heard is a lot of the protesters are worried
that somebody's going to come in and agitate
and what they're teaching their protesters to
do. If that person starts going, throwing, whatever,
everybody sit down and let the focus be on that
individual that doesn't represent us. And I was
like, that's brilliant. Love it. That's wonderful.
So even that is an awakening because. Some of
these protesters would have never thought about
that. I mean, obviously, we went through it,
you know, in 2020 where, you know, entire neighborhoods
are being burned to the ground. And now they're
like, hey, if someone takes it to that level,
sit and let them be dealt with. So even that
I have hope for. But love wins, man. It is just
a longer, harder slog. And hate is way quicker.
But it does no good. No, not at all. Just as
a closing, I saw a beautiful video of police
officers, Italian police officers in Milan. And
rather than, they had all the riot gear and everything,
and they just walked with the protesters. It
was a peaceful protest. And they just walked
with them. They're like, we're not here to be
on our own people. And I think that a lot of
people in uniform around the country, don't get
me wrong, obviously, if there's a threat, there's
a threat. But if it is a genuine... peaceful
protest against something that is just wrong,
and this is what it really boils down to a lot
of these moral compass issues, is it right or
is it wrong? How about that? You don't have to
kneel and put your fist in the air, but you also
don't have to act like these people are the devil
when they're actually trying to just simply protest
something that is completely wrong. So with that
being said, we've been chatting for over two
hours now. I want to be mindful of your time.
For people listening, if they want to reach out
to you, learn more about you, anything like that,
where are the best places to do that now? It's
the Tactical, T -A -C -T -I -C -O -U -L -L on
Instagram. I get DMs all the time. So if they,
if they want to, I am, I'm open to it. I'm retired
now, James. So I got, I got nothing but time
and I got a three month old that, that just kind
of hangs out with me. So, yeah. And that Instagram,
like I said, the, the coolest thing about retiring,
they give you all these plaques and everything
like that. The little army came and met me offsite.
And they gave me, I actually gave it to my son.
They gave me a poster board. with some of my
phrases from that Instagram. And then they said
to Detective Cool, a true warrior in the best
sense, we love you. And it was pictures of them.
I don't know if you remember, my gang unit shirt
was like two unicorns kissing with a rainbow.
I do. So I used to hand those shirts out. all
this all this poster is just all these kids from
the neighborhood in the gang unit shirt high
-fiving playing basketball um they took pictures
with me and that was that's the only thing i
needed in retirement like that's that um that
meant the world to me so yeah so that instagram
is still up all my little phrases and stuff like
that and if anybody wants to dm me and tell me
that i'm a I'm a horrible person or I never should
have been a cop. I get that all the time. So,
yeah. So we'll argue all day. Yeah. So and then
we have we have the links to adopt a cop and
massive and Jeff and all that good stuff. So
a lot of officers reach out. Adopt a cop is always
looking for funding and that will literally provide
funding for police officers to get to Blue Belt.
I went through the program. I put a bunch of
officers through the program. And that goes back
to your physicality will give you the confidence
to roll with empathy, compassion, and love in
every law enforcement endeavor. And it makes
all the difference in the world. Well, I want
to thank you. We've had, as I said, over a two
-hour conversation again. It's been so great
to be able to pull you out the shadows now and
talk about your transition and the highs and
the lows. Not even political, because I hate
that word, because it's not. The conversation
on how we can better America and Americans. So
it's been incredible. So I want to thank you
so, so much for being so generous with your time
again and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast.
Thanks for having me, James.