WEBVTT

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This episode is brought to you by Thorne, the

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Most of you listening come from profession where

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it can take its toll physically and mentally.

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even more about Thorne, go to episode 323 of

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Behind the Shield podcast. And you will hear

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my interview with Wes Barnett and Joel Totoro

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from Thorne. This episode is sponsored by 5 .11,

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a company that I've used for well over a decade

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and continue to use to this day. And 5 .11 is

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offering you guys, the audience of the Behind

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the Shield podcast, a discount on every purchase

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I want to highlight a couple of products that,

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again, I personally use today. One of the most

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impressive products they just released is their

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Rush Backpack 2 .0. Now, for many of you, whether

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you're going to the fire station, the police

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station, whether you're traveling with your family,

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whether you're taking training courses, we have

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to fly, we have to drive, we have to take trains.

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And I have to say, I own multiple backpacks,

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many of 5 .11's different ones. But as far as

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a day pack, this one was the most impressive.

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There are so many different compartments. The

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way it sits on your back is incredibly comfortable.

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If you are a concealed carry person, there's

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also a spot for a weapon. So they've thought

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of multiple, multiple things that a man or woman

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addition to all of the products that I talk about

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a lot. Their uniforms fit for men or fit for

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I live in a lot of their clothes as well. Their

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them. We live in Florida here, so I wear a lot

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of their shorts, which again, very, very lightweight

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material. You can get it wet and it will dry

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almost immediately. And then moving to the fitness

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and tactical space, I used to have just a regular

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weight vest. Recently, I switched to a 511 vest

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and actually bought ballistic plates as well.

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My thinking was simply, if I'm going to have

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a vest, why not have one that protects me as

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well? And that tack vest is trusted by law enforcement

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not just that one purchase, but every time you

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visit their store. And if you want to learn more

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about 5 .11, their mission, their products, then

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listen to episode 338 of the Behind the Shield

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podcast with the CEO and founder, Francisco Morales.

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Welcome to episode 599 of Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this

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week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the

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show Danny O 'Connor. Now Danny is one of the

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founding members of House of Pain and I'm sure

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many of you are aware of their music. However,

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his life story is so much more powerful than

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the music alone. So we discuss a host of topics

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from his early life finding his way into hip

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-hop, addiction, recovery, the outsiders, and

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so much more. Before we get to this incredible

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conversation, as I say every week, please just

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take a moment, go to whichever app you listen

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to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback.

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and leave a rating. Every five -star rating truly

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does elevate this podcast, therefore making it

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easier for other people to find. And this is

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a free library of almost 600 episodes. So all

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I ask in return is that you help share these

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incredible men and women's stories so I can get

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them to every single person who needs to hear

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them. So with that being said, I introduce to

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you Danny Boy O 'Connor. Enjoy. Well, Danny,

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I want to start by saying thank you so, so much

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for taking the time to come on the Behind the

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Shield podcast today. My pleasure, man. So very

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first question, where on planet Earth are we

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finding you on this fine day? I'm in a beautiful

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downtown Tulsa, Oklahoma, home of the greaser,

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and I'm loving every minute of it. I was born

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in Brooklyn, New York, raised in Los Angeles.

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I spent probably 48. years of my life in either

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the San Fernando Valley or Hollywood area. And

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I moved to Tulsa five years ago. And it's the

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smartest thing I've ever done. So happy to be

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joining you. Beautiful. Well, I know there's

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a hell of a story and a very powerful story of

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why you're in Tulsa. So I'd love to get that

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as we progress through. I'd love to start chronologically

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at the very beginning, though. So tell me where

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you were born and tell me a little bit about

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your family dynamic, what your parents did and

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how many siblings. To my knowledge at the time,

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I was born in Brooklyn, New York. At two months

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old, we were evicted from our apartment. My father

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went to prison. And we moved in with my grandparents

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who lived in Staten Island over the bridge from

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Brooklyn. I spent the first three years with

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my grandparents. And then my mother got married

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to another alcoholic. We moved maybe a mile and

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a half down the road to a project. called the

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tyson lane projects and it was you know it was

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tough it was when i lived with my grandparents

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it was it was it was fantastic because you know

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grandparents always kind of you know If they've

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had any flaws in their own raising of their children,

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they kind of figure a way to make up for it on

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their grandchildren. So they took very good care

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of me and I loved every minute of being there.

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I did not love every minute of being in the projects.

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It was tough back then, New York in the 70s and

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the early 70s was a rough place. A lot of people

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coming home from Vietnam, a lot of people's parents,

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you know, there was a lot of, I remember as a

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kid seeing, you know, just, People in the laundromat,

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you know, every building had like a laundry room

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and people were in there getting robbed. They

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would wait for women to come in with their money

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for the laundry money and rob them for that.

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I think people were getting pushed off the roof

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of this historic building that we lived in. And

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a lot of, you know, a lot of tough kids, a lot

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of Puerto Rican kids, a lot of tough Irish kids,

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a lot of tough Italian kids. And it just was

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completely different than, you know, being. just

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the golden child at my grandparents' house a

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couple of miles away, you know? So, but it was

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all I knew. And, you know, I have two siblings.

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I did not know I had an older brother until I

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was about 20 years old, which we'll get to, I

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guess, I'll tell you how that happened as we

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move forward. But at the time I only knew that

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I had a stepsister through my stepfather. And

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then we stayed in New York till, I was six years

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old and we moved to California. My mother was

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a key punch operator at the Chase Manhattan Bank.

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So the first few years of my life, I didn't really

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look at her or understand that that was my mother

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because she worked nights and slept in the days.

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And obviously as an infant, I was up in the days

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and slept at night. So I really only see her

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barely on the weekends. And for people who don't

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know, key punch operating predates computer programming.

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It is technically computer. maybe not programming,

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but they used to have index cards. And then on

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those index cards, there was divots punched out,

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you know, square or rectangular divots. And you

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would insert those into this computer and it

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would then, by the placement of those digits,

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I mean, yeah. holes punch it would know whatever

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you were trying to tell it to do so late nights

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chase manhattan bank that's what she was doing

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she left for la because her brother was also

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a computer programmer and los angeles at the

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time was the hotbed for all of that activity

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uh she ended up in the aerospace portion of it

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it's a at lytton and she worked on the guidance

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systems for our nuclear arsenal or the defense

00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:12.779
systems against russians uh the russian uh nuclear

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arsenal that star wars program i don't know if

00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:19.000
you remember that but there was programs so yeah

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so she wrote a she wrote in a language that's

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no longer uh used anymore ironically during uh

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y2k they brought her back for like triple the

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pay that she was making at any other time to

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try to fix the y2k because the language that

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they wrote was called cobalt and it's no longer

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it's just not a computer language anymore so

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anybody who knew it would be you know of a certain

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age and they were trying to fix the the the y2k

00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:46.919
clock problem but uh as we know that wasn't as

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big as a problem as we thought it was and you

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know i i share this often because i'm in recovery

00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:56.679
and you know um My grandparents life was great

00:10:56.679 --> 00:10:58.419
when I moved in the apartment with my mother

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and my stepfather. They were they were he was

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drunk a lot. He was violent. But it was kind

00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:06.480
of all around me in the projects. And I just

00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:09.120
thought, OK, this is the next part of life where

00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:11.120
it's tough and it's uncomfortable and scary.

00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:15.080
And, you know, there was a lot of you know, there

00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:16.820
was a lot of that around me at the time. And

00:11:16.820 --> 00:11:19.179
so when we moved to California when I was six,

00:11:19.299 --> 00:11:22.840
unfortunately for my stepfather. He dies pretty

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soon after that. He died at 35 of cirrhosis of

00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:28.700
the liver. So I can't imagine, and this is coming

00:11:28.700 --> 00:11:31.299
from a recovered alcoholic addict, the kind of

00:11:31.299 --> 00:11:34.299
drinking you'd have to do to die at 35. But I

00:11:34.299 --> 00:11:37.059
saw some of the drinking as a kid. I remember

00:11:37.059 --> 00:11:39.720
my mother, he would walk me to school in the

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morning and then he would stop at the liquor

00:11:41.220 --> 00:11:44.559
store. He would come out with a pint of milk

00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:47.980
and a bottle. And then he would come up close

00:11:47.980 --> 00:11:50.840
to me and said, don't tell your mother I'm drinking

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milk. I said, all right, yeah, yeah, no. I said,

00:11:52.620 --> 00:11:54.559
remember, don't tell her it was drinking milk.

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And as a, I don't know, like a five -year -old

00:11:57.620 --> 00:11:59.899
kid, that's like such a weird request, you know?

00:12:00.299 --> 00:12:02.000
All right, I won't tell her. And then what he

00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:04.039
would do is pour his fifth of whatever he was

00:12:04.039 --> 00:12:05.960
drinking into that milk carton with the milk

00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:09.299
and then drink it, throw it up. drink it, throw

00:12:09.299 --> 00:12:11.500
it up. And by the third or fourth time he would

00:12:11.500 --> 00:12:13.659
drink it and it would go down and then he could

00:12:13.659 --> 00:12:15.600
get right. You know, he was a real alcoholic

00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:18.639
and he stopped shaking and he could get well.

00:12:18.700 --> 00:12:20.740
And that's what he did to get well. And then

00:12:20.740 --> 00:12:23.360
when I would come home from school, my mother,

00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:25.179
the first thing she would ask me was, was Richie

00:12:25.179 --> 00:12:27.500
drinking milk? And I'm like, I didn't know what

00:12:27.500 --> 00:12:29.080
to do, you know, because I was scared of him.

00:12:30.069 --> 00:12:32.190
And I was scared, you know, and I didn't know

00:12:32.190 --> 00:12:34.169
what to tell her. I don't even remember if I

00:12:34.169 --> 00:12:37.929
told on him or if I did. It was always awkward.

00:12:38.090 --> 00:12:39.750
I think I probably cried. And then they just

00:12:39.750 --> 00:12:41.429
she couldn't get an answer out of me because

00:12:41.429 --> 00:12:44.490
it was just scary times. And looking back, obviously,

00:12:44.529 --> 00:12:46.610
like I said, I described what I now know was

00:12:46.610 --> 00:12:49.470
a full blown alcoholic who was every day had

00:12:49.470 --> 00:12:52.710
to try to get a few drinks just to sit down in

00:12:52.710 --> 00:12:54.929
there to get him to just to be able to be semi

00:12:54.929 --> 00:12:57.429
functional, which is it's such a tough way of

00:12:57.429 --> 00:13:00.330
living. It's unfortunate that he didn't find

00:13:00.330 --> 00:13:03.370
recovery. But, you know, it's scary when you're

00:13:03.370 --> 00:13:06.350
a kid. It's not, it's, yeah. You know, and I've

00:13:06.350 --> 00:13:09.250
even, I brought it up to my mother once. She

00:13:09.250 --> 00:13:10.769
started crying about it. I'm like, you know,

00:13:10.789 --> 00:13:13.970
it just. As an adult now, I can't imagine putting

00:13:13.970 --> 00:13:18.590
kids in the care of that, you know, in the hands

00:13:18.590 --> 00:13:20.789
of that. But again, you know, I got to have some

00:13:20.789 --> 00:13:22.289
empathy for my mother, too. She was probably

00:13:22.289 --> 00:13:26.649
23, 24, late 20s at best. And I think to myself

00:13:26.649 --> 00:13:29.309
when I was late 20s, which I felt, you know,

00:13:29.309 --> 00:13:31.809
those are not some of my finer moments at that

00:13:31.809 --> 00:13:35.070
age. And the decisions I made were based off

00:13:35.070 --> 00:13:39.629
of, you know, fear or selfish, you know, things

00:13:39.629 --> 00:13:43.279
that I was trying to do. So I have empathy, but,

00:13:43.340 --> 00:13:45.960
you know, there's part of me that's, you know,

00:13:45.980 --> 00:13:48.799
I thought maybe I'd be a parent by this point.

00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:51.820
I'm not a parent at this point. But if I was

00:13:51.820 --> 00:13:53.679
a parent at this point, I would definitely have

00:13:53.679 --> 00:13:59.220
all of the necessary life lessons and just all

00:13:59.220 --> 00:14:01.440
the instruction would be simple. Just do the

00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:05.720
exact opposite of what my parents did. And that

00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:09.740
would be a pretty. good roadmap for success.

00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:13.840
So anyway, you know, it, I think it made me who

00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:17.139
I am. It made me, you know, tough where I needed

00:14:17.139 --> 00:14:20.820
to be tough. Sometimes that muscle was overworked

00:14:20.820 --> 00:14:24.679
and later in life, recovery and sobriety and

00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:27.720
some humility would soften me up a bit. And I

00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:30.639
feel like at this point, you know, I found what

00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:32.779
I was looking for in that area, but yeah, it

00:14:32.779 --> 00:14:35.399
was a tough life. So when we finally get to California,

00:14:35.460 --> 00:14:39.480
it was culture shock. I was stuck in military

00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:41.980
school for a year, which was overwhelming. The

00:14:41.980 --> 00:14:45.039
curriculum at third grade was so high that I

00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:47.399
wasn't even ready for it. I got held back that

00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:50.600
year. I went to public school the next year and

00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:52.419
was a straight -A student just for that, maybe

00:14:52.419 --> 00:14:54.909
the first semester, because the curriculum. Prior

00:14:54.909 --> 00:14:59.309
to that was so hard, and they would give you

00:14:59.309 --> 00:15:02.149
swaps if you got demerits and stuff like that.

00:15:02.289 --> 00:15:04.149
They would literally, every Friday, they'd pull

00:15:04.149 --> 00:15:05.950
all the kids in that didn't shine their shoes

00:15:05.950 --> 00:15:08.309
or didn't have the uniform straight or weren't

00:15:08.309 --> 00:15:09.809
turning in homework, and they would literally

00:15:09.809 --> 00:15:14.769
give you the paddle. It's scary, too, when you're

00:15:14.769 --> 00:15:17.610
a third -grade kid. So by the time I got to public

00:15:17.610 --> 00:15:23.919
school, it was a lot more. easier on me. But

00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:26.759
I was never a good student. I feel there's definitely

00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:31.860
a learning disability that I have. I'd always

00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:34.279
be the class clown or try to get people to laugh

00:15:34.279 --> 00:15:36.940
or always do things for approval. I feel like

00:15:36.940 --> 00:15:39.340
I never got the approval I was looking for at

00:15:39.340 --> 00:15:43.080
home. And so I look for that in other situations.

00:15:43.299 --> 00:15:46.659
And maybe that's still true of me. I don't know

00:15:46.659 --> 00:15:49.460
if that ever changes. I know it's a driving force.

00:15:51.230 --> 00:15:53.649
And in a lot of the endeavors that I took on,

00:15:53.710 --> 00:15:55.710
it was always something in a public light or

00:15:55.710 --> 00:15:57.269
something that people would be like, wow, that's

00:15:57.269 --> 00:16:00.409
cool. You know, then would be to do behind closed

00:16:00.409 --> 00:16:03.990
doors and nobody ever know. But that on the sand,

00:16:04.029 --> 00:16:06.690
I'm thinking out loud on here, but I think the

00:16:06.690 --> 00:16:08.450
things that happen behind closed doors are people

00:16:08.450 --> 00:16:12.730
that are the aptitude is more fit for that. I'm

00:16:12.730 --> 00:16:16.210
more in front of the camera, if you will, than

00:16:16.210 --> 00:16:20.139
behind the camera, you know, so. Yeah. But so

00:16:20.139 --> 00:16:22.919
life was, you know, life for me, I don't want

00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:24.659
to sing a tale of, well, my mother did the best

00:16:24.659 --> 00:16:28.899
she could. We were never poor. We were always

00:16:28.899 --> 00:16:31.559
middle class, sometimes lower middle class, sometimes

00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:34.860
just middle class. There was always kids that

00:16:34.860 --> 00:16:37.519
were poor. There were friends that I had that

00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:39.240
were way poorer than me. And there were friends

00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:40.960
that we had in California that were way richer

00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:44.100
than me. I think when we moved to California

00:16:44.100 --> 00:16:46.379
after being there, you know, after I started

00:16:46.379 --> 00:16:49.700
to, you know, my early teens, I started to realize

00:16:49.700 --> 00:16:52.919
that everybody had like a different, you know,

00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:54.720
some people were rich, some people were poor,

00:16:54.860 --> 00:16:57.759
some people, you start. The pack starts to separate,

00:16:57.919 --> 00:16:59.399
you know, some people's bicycles were better,

00:16:59.539 --> 00:17:01.379
some people's clothes were better, some handheld

00:17:01.379 --> 00:17:03.679
like little Pac -Man things started coming out

00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:06.279
or, you know, the Nintendo systems or whatever.

00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:08.319
And some people's family could afford them with

00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:10.539
not a problem. And some had to wait a year or

00:17:10.539 --> 00:17:13.039
two before they could, you know, the prices came

00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:15.339
down and got them. And it's at that point where

00:17:15.339 --> 00:17:18.980
I started to feel a little uncomfortable, selfish,

00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:23.619
self, you know, aware of that and then feeling

00:17:23.619 --> 00:17:28.259
less than. And it's right about that time that

00:17:28.259 --> 00:17:32.200
I see The Outsiders. I always credit that movie

00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:36.160
with kind of like affirming that if the best

00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:39.180
life ever gets is a pack of friends that have

00:17:39.180 --> 00:17:41.900
your best interest and you theirs, a few denim

00:17:41.900 --> 00:17:44.039
jackets, a pack of cigarettes, and we sneak into

00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:46.220
the drive -in theater, that if that's the best

00:17:46.220 --> 00:17:49.819
life gets, I can live with that. You know what

00:17:49.819 --> 00:17:52.539
I mean? And so I carried that for a long time.

00:17:54.079 --> 00:17:56.380
with me, that vibe, that Dallas Winston, Matt

00:17:56.380 --> 00:17:59.640
Dillon character vibe, just get tough on one

00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:02.519
side and nothing can touch you. And then having

00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:05.680
the empathy that Johnny Cade had in The Outsiders,

00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:08.299
if you know the book or movie. And then the only

00:18:08.299 --> 00:18:09.940
thing I think I'm skipping over, which was a

00:18:09.940 --> 00:18:14.269
tremendous gift that... At the time, I didn't

00:18:14.269 --> 00:18:16.750
realize how important a role it would play in

00:18:16.750 --> 00:18:19.789
my life. But that stepfather that I had, he had

00:18:19.789 --> 00:18:22.869
a wonderful brother, my Uncle Mickey and his

00:18:22.869 --> 00:18:25.789
wife, my Aunt Edie, and two kids at the time.

00:18:25.809 --> 00:18:29.369
They had another kid later. And they would take

00:18:29.369 --> 00:18:33.150
me every summer. I would fly out to New Jersey

00:18:33.150 --> 00:18:35.049
to meet them. They were from Staten Island or

00:18:35.049 --> 00:18:37.069
Brooklyn originally, then Staten Island, then

00:18:37.069 --> 00:18:39.670
New Jersey. And I would fly out every summer

00:18:39.670 --> 00:18:42.140
to meet them. Because my mother just couldn't

00:18:42.140 --> 00:18:43.839
handle two kids and she would be at work all

00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:46.799
the time. And she would fly me out there and

00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:48.579
then we would drive in the station wagon from

00:18:48.579 --> 00:18:51.480
New Jersey all the way to Springfield, Missouri,

00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:54.069
which is literally like. the center of the U

00:18:54.069 --> 00:18:57.490
.S., and my aunt came from a farm. And along

00:18:57.490 --> 00:18:59.789
the way, they would stop at, like, thrift stores,

00:18:59.930 --> 00:19:03.809
antique shops, flea markets. They were in search

00:19:03.809 --> 00:19:05.789
of coffee grinders. They were in the coffee business,

00:19:05.930 --> 00:19:07.869
and they were looking for antique coffee grinders.

00:19:07.890 --> 00:19:10.170
But as kids, we were looking for comic books

00:19:10.170 --> 00:19:13.670
and baseball cards and fatigues and patches from

00:19:13.670 --> 00:19:17.849
the military. These were exciting trips for us,

00:19:17.950 --> 00:19:21.599
and I think it made me roadworthy. from a young

00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:24.200
age. And I was always fascinated with just life

00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:26.519
on the road. And I'd get to a different hotel

00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:28.660
in a different city in a different town. And

00:19:28.660 --> 00:19:30.359
we'd turn on the TV and the commercials were

00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:32.619
different. And some of the products were different.

00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:35.440
In LA, we didn't have Mellow Yellow, which was

00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:37.599
a soda you could find in the Midwest. We didn't

00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:40.579
have Entenmann's and Devil Dogs that they had

00:19:40.579 --> 00:19:42.319
in New York, but they didn't have them. And then

00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:44.480
vice versa, we had some stuff in LA that they

00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:47.259
didn't have. And I just realized I was comfortable

00:19:47.259 --> 00:19:52.230
in the constant. motion and traveling uh thing

00:19:52.230 --> 00:19:54.569
I was a sponge for all of that stuff and I think

00:19:54.569 --> 00:19:58.269
by the time I got into the music uh business

00:19:58.269 --> 00:20:01.029
uh there were some people that were in other

00:20:01.029 --> 00:20:04.630
groups that that are contemporaries and and some

00:20:04.630 --> 00:20:06.730
of those guys kind of pulled out of touring for

00:20:06.730 --> 00:20:08.349
a long time because they just hated being on

00:20:08.349 --> 00:20:11.269
the road but that was never my my story so I

00:20:11.269 --> 00:20:13.630
look back at those very fond those years is like

00:20:13.630 --> 00:20:16.009
kind of the thing that saves me you know because

00:20:16.009 --> 00:20:20.690
I and oh and also by going back and forth every

00:20:20.690 --> 00:20:25.190
summer until I was about 13 or so. This is pre

00:20:25.190 --> 00:20:27.269
-internet, pre -cell phones. Obviously, I'm 53

00:20:27.269 --> 00:20:30.529
years old, so this is in the 80s, early 80s.

00:20:32.430 --> 00:20:35.450
Music and television and movie influences are

00:20:35.450 --> 00:20:38.230
different, man. And I always say I was bringing

00:20:38.230 --> 00:20:43.150
Oingo Boingo and Fishbone tapes back to New Jersey

00:20:43.150 --> 00:20:44.990
with me, and I was coming home with Curtis Blow,

00:20:45.150 --> 00:20:49.900
Run DMC, and Grandmaster Flash. And at the time,

00:20:49.900 --> 00:20:51.740
there were big differences. You know, there was

00:20:51.740 --> 00:20:54.119
skateboard and surf culture in L .A. And I was

00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:56.359
dressing like every other kid, which was O .P.,

00:20:56.359 --> 00:20:59.900
Vans and Lightning Bolt. And then coming back

00:20:59.900 --> 00:21:02.660
from that summer with maybe a pair of Pumas and

00:21:02.660 --> 00:21:06.940
some lead denim, just trying to emulate that

00:21:06.940 --> 00:21:10.259
New York hip hop look and spending a lot of my

00:21:10.259 --> 00:21:13.119
time. you know, listening to radio that we could

00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:14.759
get in New Jersey that was playing a little bit

00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:17.059
of R &B and hip -hop at the time. And it made

00:21:17.059 --> 00:21:20.440
me kind of like a wizard on both coasts amongst

00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:22.599
the 12 -year -olds, if you will, because I knew

00:21:22.599 --> 00:21:25.039
a lot about stuff that they wouldn't hear about

00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:28.039
until a couple of years later or on a movie soundtrack

00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:31.119
or whatever. So it just kind of, I felt like

00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:34.140
I was at the epicenter of both of that new wave

00:21:34.140 --> 00:21:38.519
slash hip -hop era as it was starting. And I

00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:41.900
always felt... A kinship to hip hop, because

00:21:41.900 --> 00:21:46.559
in my heart, I'm a New Yorker till I die, even

00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:48.880
though I spent the majority, a vast majority

00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:52.200
of my life in Los Angeles. I've always been a

00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:54.259
fan of the Yankees. I've always been in love

00:21:54.259 --> 00:21:57.000
with anything that's been like 70s or 80s New

00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:00.119
York or even before that. But that era in particular.

00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:04.859
And so and then going back every summer, New

00:22:04.859 --> 00:22:08.180
York, New Jersey area. I just would soak up as

00:22:08.180 --> 00:22:10.160
much as I could that summer and then carry that

00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:12.380
with me until the following summer. And then,

00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:14.259
you know, by the time I'm 20, we're signed to

00:22:14.259 --> 00:22:16.000
a New York label and we're going back and forth

00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:19.660
coast to coast. But it was like I like to call

00:22:19.660 --> 00:22:22.400
it a poor man's Glenn E. Friedman experience.

00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:25.160
And if you don't know who that is at home, Google

00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:27.119
that name. You'll be shocked. It's one of the

00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:31.420
most prolific photographers to ever do it. And

00:22:31.420 --> 00:22:33.960
he definitely covered that 14. He was covering

00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:36.630
the Dogtown skateboard scene. in its infancy

00:22:36.630 --> 00:22:40.829
here in California. He covered the DC punk scene.

00:22:40.950 --> 00:22:42.609
He's done most of your favorite record covers,

00:22:42.750 --> 00:22:46.569
whether it's Public Enemy or Minor Threat or

00:22:46.569 --> 00:22:50.410
Bad Brains or whatever. He's lived probably a

00:22:50.410 --> 00:22:53.609
hundred lives. Most photographers don't get a

00:22:53.609 --> 00:22:55.470
fraction of what he's got accomplished, but he

00:22:55.470 --> 00:22:57.569
just happened to be the right place at the right

00:22:57.569 --> 00:23:00.369
time for three different major scenes, the hardcore

00:23:00.369 --> 00:23:04.349
punk scene in New York and DC. the skateboard

00:23:04.349 --> 00:23:08.170
surf dogtown venice santa monica scene early

00:23:08.170 --> 00:23:10.890
on and then all of the early hip -hop stuff through

00:23:10.890 --> 00:23:15.509
def jam incredible uh eye and incredible talent

00:23:15.509 --> 00:23:18.799
and I feel like I was seeing all of the stuff

00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:20.700
he was doing as a kid, going back and forth,

00:23:20.740 --> 00:23:22.980
being, like, hip to all that shit way before

00:23:22.980 --> 00:23:25.019
a lot of people were, at least in my circle.

00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:27.660
So I always, you know, called it just that. But,

00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:29.140
yeah, it was a good thing. You know, looking

00:23:29.140 --> 00:23:30.740
back, and even as I tell you this, you know,

00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:33.339
there's no real story of, whoa, you know, I made

00:23:33.339 --> 00:23:36.619
a lot of bad choices moving forward. And it ended

00:23:36.619 --> 00:23:39.579
me up in a lot of shit. And then I've done a

00:23:39.579 --> 00:23:44.859
lot of things since then to recover. Well, firstly,

00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:47.799
thank you for laying that out. It parallels so

00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:49.440
many other people that have been on here. And

00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:52.839
one thing I see, a lot of times there's an inception

00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:55.359
almost of like the World War II era. I think

00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:58.700
myself included, a lot of us have this romanticized

00:23:58.700 --> 00:24:01.420
image of all our vets coming home, ticker tape

00:24:01.420 --> 00:24:03.079
parades, they're all happy, they roll up their

00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:05.589
sleeves and they go to work. Behind the scenes,

00:24:05.589 --> 00:24:07.430
as I talk to more and more people, you realize

00:24:07.430 --> 00:24:09.089
that, no, that's not the case at all. And then

00:24:09.089 --> 00:24:11.390
you fast forward another generation. Now you're

00:24:11.390 --> 00:24:13.690
starting to see all that kind of second generation

00:24:13.690 --> 00:24:16.509
of trauma. And then you've got broken homes and

00:24:16.509 --> 00:24:18.849
you've got, you know, abuse in the household.

00:24:19.130 --> 00:24:21.250
You've got single mothers who aren't seeing their

00:24:21.250 --> 00:24:22.890
children because they're trying to, you know,

00:24:22.890 --> 00:24:27.289
pay the bills. So were you ever able to find

00:24:27.289 --> 00:24:30.410
out kind of the generation before maybe what

00:24:30.410 --> 00:24:32.630
caused your dad's road to prison, what caused

00:24:32.630 --> 00:24:35.509
your stepfather's road to addiction? You know,

00:24:35.569 --> 00:24:39.250
I never did, and it's a good question, but it

00:24:39.250 --> 00:24:42.869
seems to me, I don't know much about my father's

00:24:42.869 --> 00:24:46.390
family, but I've met a few of them online. Facebook

00:24:46.390 --> 00:24:51.009
is a strange and interesting place, and some

00:24:51.009 --> 00:24:55.130
of them seem well -adjusted and fit, and some

00:24:55.130 --> 00:24:58.890
of them are crazy like me. And on my stepfather's

00:24:58.890 --> 00:25:02.440
side, they were, like I said, his brother. They

00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:07.200
had a great life. They may have had a beer or

00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:08.740
two, but they knew when to put it down. Or at

00:25:08.740 --> 00:25:12.279
least I didn't see any alcoholism on that side

00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:17.579
myself. I'm echoing what you're saying. It's

00:25:17.579 --> 00:25:21.369
100 % true in my thing. I don't know. Prior to

00:25:21.369 --> 00:25:24.349
that, I'm sure I'm certain on the O 'Connor side

00:25:24.349 --> 00:25:27.930
that alcoholism runs through that family lineage

00:25:27.930 --> 00:25:30.970
and some brothers and sisters did better than

00:25:30.970 --> 00:25:34.650
others. But I don't know in detail enough to

00:25:34.650 --> 00:25:36.710
answer that question. And I would love to know

00:25:36.710 --> 00:25:39.589
this. I knew my father was a career criminal

00:25:39.589 --> 00:25:42.650
and I have a lot of friends, a handful of friends

00:25:42.650 --> 00:25:46.529
on NYPD. And I said, can you look up so I can

00:25:46.529 --> 00:25:48.269
have a better picture of what kind of stuff he

00:25:48.269 --> 00:25:50.950
was doing? And they couldn't. They said it was

00:25:50.950 --> 00:25:54.450
before those records got rolled into the digital

00:25:54.450 --> 00:25:57.190
thing and a lot of things. And he was, you know,

00:25:57.190 --> 00:25:59.450
he he was a lot older than my mother, you know,

00:25:59.450 --> 00:26:01.170
a decade older than my mother. My mother's probably

00:26:01.170 --> 00:26:03.970
in her mid 70s now. So, you know, it's going

00:26:03.970 --> 00:26:07.569
back to a time where a lot of those stuff. And

00:26:07.569 --> 00:26:09.849
then he was he was murdered when I was 17. He

00:26:09.849 --> 00:26:11.430
was homeless by the time he was going in and

00:26:11.430 --> 00:26:14.369
out of prison, in and out of the homelessness.

00:26:14.670 --> 00:26:17.759
And somebody for fun, actually. It's ironic.

00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:22.160
And I say this a lot. And, you know, he was killed,

00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:24.859
unfortunately, for no reason but for somebody,

00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:29.599
I guess, to get their kicks. But the police chief's

00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:32.640
son of Staten Island decided to light a bomb

00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:35.039
on fire that happened to be my father. So he

00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:38.400
was burnt alive when he was homeless. I'm an

00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:40.700
advocate for the Second Amendment, I believe.

00:26:41.150 --> 00:26:43.869
That, you know, my constitution guarantees me

00:26:43.869 --> 00:26:45.990
the right to bear arms and protect myself, my

00:26:45.990 --> 00:26:49.250
family, my loved ones. And I as much as I, you

00:26:49.250 --> 00:26:53.349
know, despise the act that that that person did.

00:26:53.690 --> 00:26:58.130
I'm not anti cop. I'm not anti gasoline. I'm

00:26:58.130 --> 00:27:00.950
not anti matches. You can kill somebody in so

00:27:00.950 --> 00:27:04.250
many ways or just destruction so many ways. What

00:27:04.250 --> 00:27:09.430
I am is like anti ignorance and anti like. Those

00:27:09.430 --> 00:27:12.190
kinds of actions. I don't know what kind of mind

00:27:12.190 --> 00:27:14.670
state you got to be in to do that. That being

00:27:14.670 --> 00:27:15.970
said, I don't, you know, there's some stuff,

00:27:16.069 --> 00:27:18.809
obviously not, you know, to that level, but I've

00:27:18.809 --> 00:27:20.970
done a lot of stupid things in my life. Looking

00:27:20.970 --> 00:27:23.829
back that seconds and inches away from sheer

00:27:23.829 --> 00:27:26.390
disaster for somebody else, for myself, for everybody

00:27:26.390 --> 00:27:30.390
involved. And so I really, you know, it's a tough

00:27:30.390 --> 00:27:35.130
one, but yeah, you know. It's funny that you

00:27:35.130 --> 00:27:38.650
brought the broken home thing up. I talk to people

00:27:38.650 --> 00:27:43.670
all the time because of the position I have now

00:27:43.670 --> 00:27:48.410
with the museum and being in recovery. It's tough

00:27:48.410 --> 00:27:52.369
for me. As much as I love hip -hop and what it's

00:27:52.369 --> 00:27:56.670
done, it's had a wonderful effect on my life,

00:27:56.710 --> 00:27:58.710
but there's also a negative side of it that doesn't

00:27:58.710 --> 00:28:01.470
get discussed a lot. And it's heartbreaking,

00:28:01.789 --> 00:28:03.730
really, because all of the stuff that can end

00:28:03.730 --> 00:28:10.529
you up, all of the professions, let's just call

00:28:10.529 --> 00:28:12.390
it the streets, right? It's not even hip -hop

00:28:12.390 --> 00:28:14.430
alone, but hip -hop glorifies all the stuff that

00:28:14.430 --> 00:28:18.589
as a 53 -year -old adult who's turned the corner

00:28:18.589 --> 00:28:21.250
on all of that stuff that I despise. You know,

00:28:21.289 --> 00:28:23.750
if you're in the streets and you're a thug, you're

00:28:23.750 --> 00:28:28.250
a pimp, you're a pusher. you're uh whatever you're

00:28:28.250 --> 00:28:30.670
like those those occupations are held on high

00:28:30.670 --> 00:28:35.109
you know what i mean any other place that's not

00:28:35.109 --> 00:28:37.009
only a prison sentence it's like the worst thing

00:28:37.009 --> 00:28:40.990
you could be and as a young kid i gravitated

00:28:40.990 --> 00:28:45.029
to that mindset and i feel because i didn't have

00:28:45.029 --> 00:28:48.150
anybody at home and any telling me that shit

00:28:48.150 --> 00:28:50.700
and then when i Would hear stories about my father

00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:53.000
and him being a thug and him being a gangster

00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:56.059
or a tough guy or whatever you want to call it.

00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:01.980
And then add all of the, you know, watching Scarface

00:29:01.980 --> 00:29:06.019
as a kid or all of the movies. I just gravitated

00:29:06.019 --> 00:29:10.000
towards outlaw culture and street culture. And,

00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:15.740
you know, it's really, it's a double -edged sword

00:29:15.740 --> 00:29:17.930
because it's like. I'll always love the rebel.

00:29:18.109 --> 00:29:19.730
You know what I mean? I'll always have. And that's

00:29:19.730 --> 00:29:21.569
really what people love about the American spirit

00:29:21.569 --> 00:29:24.369
is that we're rebels and that there's that undercurrent

00:29:24.369 --> 00:29:26.849
of that. But when you really are in that life,

00:29:26.970 --> 00:29:29.369
man, it's like it's jails, institutions or death.

00:29:29.589 --> 00:29:31.930
You know, there's nothing cool about it. And

00:29:31.930 --> 00:29:36.009
I bought into it hook, line and sinker, you know,

00:29:36.029 --> 00:29:39.509
and it cost me dearly for a long time. And, you

00:29:39.509 --> 00:29:41.740
know, it served me when I was younger. You know,

00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:44.220
I didn't need a lawyer or somebody to look over

00:29:44.220 --> 00:29:46.460
my contract because if they went bad, you know,

00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:48.779
I'm just going to do you in. You know, there's

00:29:48.779 --> 00:29:51.279
no the threat of that. Like, hey, if you do me

00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:53.859
dirty, they'll be held to pay. People understood

00:29:53.859 --> 00:29:55.759
that. And that's cool in your 20s. If you can,

00:29:55.779 --> 00:29:57.859
you know, you can get away with it as you get

00:29:57.859 --> 00:30:00.380
older, you realize that that ain't it. And so

00:30:00.380 --> 00:30:03.680
it's tough for me now, man, as much as like I

00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:05.740
said, and this is it just is what it is. And

00:30:05.740 --> 00:30:08.869
I don't care what anybody. you know, in, you

00:30:08.869 --> 00:30:11.190
know, hip hop or the culture or the streets think

00:30:11.190 --> 00:30:13.690
about this shit because it's just the way it

00:30:13.690 --> 00:30:17.069
is for me. I think a lot of things could have

00:30:17.069 --> 00:30:18.930
been different if there was a man in the family

00:30:18.930 --> 00:30:24.289
who was sober and took the role of a father or

00:30:24.289 --> 00:30:27.329
my father was actually just did what a father

00:30:27.329 --> 00:30:30.460
should do. as opposed to, you know, but they

00:30:30.460 --> 00:30:32.220
were both, both the stepfather, my father were

00:30:32.220 --> 00:30:34.019
sick people, you know, they were, they had an

00:30:34.019 --> 00:30:36.259
illness and they didn't, obviously they didn't

00:30:36.259 --> 00:30:38.039
understand that there was a solution for it or

00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:41.119
they didn't want the solution or I don't, who

00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:44.440
knows, but it's pretty, it's, it's, it's easy

00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:46.299
for me to look and I meet a lot of families,

00:30:46.339 --> 00:30:48.799
man. I meet a lot of kids and you can see the

00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:50.680
ones that from broken homes that there's something's

00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:53.240
different about them. And it, it just, it, it,

00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:56.299
it. The chances are, and I don't know the averages,

00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:58.559
but I'm guessing that the chances are a lot better

00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:03.319
if you have the nuclear family unit intact. And

00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:06.900
especially if they give a shit, I think your

00:31:06.900 --> 00:31:09.779
chances are better. If you don't, my advice is

00:31:09.779 --> 00:31:13.539
to get a good education and to keep your nose

00:31:13.539 --> 00:31:17.400
clean. As far as I'm concerned, you know, if

00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:19.640
there's systemic anything in the system, it's

00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:22.440
all based on your FICA score. Get a good credit

00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:26.559
score. People, when they're coming to sell you

00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:29.619
a house or loan you the money, they don't care

00:31:29.619 --> 00:31:31.359
your black, white, or pinstripe. They just want

00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:33.680
to know what your credit score is and really

00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:36.960
what your worth is. And there's no way better.

00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:41.019
For me, I always, and this is, I'll tie it together,

00:31:41.099 --> 00:31:43.930
but for me, no matter how... Well, I do. I'll

00:31:43.930 --> 00:31:46.509
always have a healthy fear of homelessness. And

00:31:46.509 --> 00:31:48.809
the only thing that will keep me guaranteed,

00:31:48.990 --> 00:31:51.970
for the most part, never to experience homelessness

00:31:51.970 --> 00:31:56.710
again, is to stay sober and to work hard. So

00:31:56.710 --> 00:31:59.130
that's what I do for that. I think if there's

00:31:59.130 --> 00:32:03.430
anything to keep me keep doing better in society,

00:32:03.710 --> 00:32:05.809
it's be a good guy and make sure your credit

00:32:05.809 --> 00:32:08.289
is intact. Because really, it's hard to move

00:32:08.289 --> 00:32:11.140
if you have a bad, you know, if you're not. on

00:32:11.140 --> 00:32:13.519
point with that i got a ninth grade education

00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:17.740
and my credit score fluctuates between the high

00:32:17.740 --> 00:32:20.920
700s to the low 800s that's not bad for a guy

00:32:20.920 --> 00:32:23.500
who was physically morally and spiritually bankrupt

00:32:23.500 --> 00:32:28.140
and definitely came into recovery in debt and

00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:31.420
so um slowly but surely one foot in front of

00:32:31.420 --> 00:32:33.599
the other i've been able to to write those things

00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:37.559
and so if if If there's news for anybody who

00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:39.380
doesn't know, I wish my father or my stepfather

00:32:39.380 --> 00:32:43.980
would have knew that recovery is possible. I'm

00:32:43.980 --> 00:32:48.119
living proof of that. You talk about the theme

00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:52.019
that joins all of us, whether it's gangs murdering

00:32:52.019 --> 00:32:53.720
each other, whether it's addiction or suicide

00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:58.480
or domestic violence or whatever, including deciding

00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:00.099
that you're going to light a homeless man on

00:33:00.099 --> 00:33:03.900
fire. The underlying thing to me is mental ill

00:33:03.900 --> 00:33:06.210
health. You know, that's what we all suffer from,

00:33:06.269 --> 00:33:07.890
no matter what your skin color or your religion.

00:33:08.329 --> 00:33:10.369
If you're going through that dark place and it

00:33:10.369 --> 00:33:12.170
can be homicide, it can be suicide, it can manifest

00:33:12.170 --> 00:33:15.150
in so many different ways. But that's the discussion.

00:33:15.190 --> 00:33:18.369
And what's so powerful when I get to talk to

00:33:18.369 --> 00:33:21.410
you and all these different people of all backgrounds,

00:33:21.710 --> 00:33:23.990
you know, some are elite, you know, war fighters.

00:33:24.089 --> 00:33:26.849
And some, I had a guy who was a boy soldier in

00:33:26.849 --> 00:33:28.650
Sierra Leone, who, by the way, was a huge hip

00:33:28.650 --> 00:33:30.930
hop fan. So that's the power of music. I was

00:33:30.930 --> 00:33:33.109
a little farm boy in England, huge hip hop fan.

00:33:34.460 --> 00:33:36.380
But yes, but that's the conversation I think

00:33:36.380 --> 00:33:39.740
that needs to be had. I mean, the war on drugs,

00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:42.220
the war on gangs, it's not working if you're

00:33:42.220 --> 00:33:44.960
not fixing children. You're not stopping the

00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:47.880
machine that is creating traumatized children

00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:51.140
that are giving no positive role models that

00:33:51.140 --> 00:33:53.420
are then fumbling their way through. Some become

00:33:53.420 --> 00:33:55.720
astronauts and they're incredible, but many of

00:33:55.720 --> 00:33:59.109
them find themselves in a much darker path. The

00:33:59.109 --> 00:34:02.049
hard part is, as you say that, you know, I agree.

00:34:02.230 --> 00:34:05.309
But then there's that part of like some kids

00:34:05.309 --> 00:34:08.429
can play, you know, video games ad nauseum and

00:34:08.429 --> 00:34:11.389
never decide to do anything crazy. Right. And

00:34:11.389 --> 00:34:14.309
some people can listen to hip hop and never decide

00:34:14.309 --> 00:34:17.369
to join a gang or go sell drugs or whatever.

00:34:18.469 --> 00:34:22.349
Unfortunately, if I'm to believe I'm hardware.

00:34:22.590 --> 00:34:26.760
Right. The software that I put in there. Was

00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:29.059
telling me, you know, all of the stuff that I

00:34:29.059 --> 00:34:31.280
was reaffirming, all of the street stuff that

00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:36.840
I was interested in. And so I'm not. Suggesting

00:34:36.840 --> 00:34:40.019
that people don't love hip hop or listen to hip

00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:43.340
hop or watch Scarface or watch whatever movie,

00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:46.559
you know, some shoot them up shit. I just think

00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:53.820
that. The way I grew up, it was a sort of it

00:34:53.820 --> 00:34:56.239
was. I definitely feel like I suffered some post

00:34:56.239 --> 00:34:59.539
-traumatic stress. And I feel like it was all

00:34:59.539 --> 00:35:01.400
fear -based because I never had the stability

00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:05.440
at home. And I was always warned or reminded

00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:10.300
that this too can change at any time. There was

00:35:10.300 --> 00:35:12.159
a lot of threats to just be shipped off to boys'

00:35:12.260 --> 00:35:15.179
homes. And I also remember feeling, you know,

00:35:15.179 --> 00:35:20.059
the fear that my mother... projected that she

00:35:20.059 --> 00:35:22.739
was living paycheck to paycheck and it was not

00:35:22.739 --> 00:35:24.980
easy and it was stressful. So there was always

00:35:24.980 --> 00:35:27.639
that instability thing. And then as a young kid,

00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:30.179
I started to see like the cocaine era starts

00:35:30.179 --> 00:35:32.840
to hit and everybody who's like, you know, in

00:35:32.840 --> 00:35:34.699
high school, I knew a lot of kids that were starting

00:35:34.699 --> 00:35:38.039
to sell, you know, small amounts, but big amounts,

00:35:38.059 --> 00:35:40.219
any amount is big, I guess, at the end of the

00:35:40.219 --> 00:35:43.639
day. But, you know, less than an ounce, I'd say

00:35:43.639 --> 00:35:47.800
at first. but weekly and they got nice clothes

00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:50.519
and they got pagers and they got candles and

00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:52.960
gold chains and in hip -hop that was everything

00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:55.059
and there was no way I could even work a job

00:35:55.059 --> 00:35:57.440
that would pay that kind of money to afford me

00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:00.519
those things and I was so obsessed with having

00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:03.179
those things that I was willing to do whatever

00:36:03.179 --> 00:36:07.639
it took to feel a part of that and I don't know

00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:12.079
that normal kids do that. I think they look at

00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:14.300
it like anything else. It's entertainment. Yeah,

00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:18.719
it's about whatever, the rah -rah shit. But they

00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:21.039
don't maybe try to emulate that to the 10th power.

00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:25.239
I unfortunately did. And looking back, I'm not

00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:30.900
proud of that. When I got here, I was at a restaurant.

00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:32.679
And they were giving me a lot of press when I

00:36:32.679 --> 00:36:34.179
first came here, which I hadn't had that kind

00:36:34.179 --> 00:36:36.179
of press since the early days of House of Pain.

00:36:37.459 --> 00:36:39.440
And two kids, they might have been 12 years old.

00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:41.420
They were like hovering around the table. We're

00:36:41.420 --> 00:36:42.900
like at some burger joint or something. And the

00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:44.579
kids finally come up to me and they said, Mr.

00:36:44.739 --> 00:36:46.400
O 'Connor. And I was like, oh, wow, here we go.

00:36:48.219 --> 00:36:50.239
You're that young calling me Mr. O 'Connor. Now

00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:53.960
I feel old. But they said, are you him? Are you

00:36:53.960 --> 00:36:55.820
the guy from the Outsiders House Museum? And

00:36:55.820 --> 00:36:57.940
I got this big smile. I said, absolutely. They

00:36:57.940 --> 00:36:59.420
said, hey, we just want to thank you for doing

00:36:59.420 --> 00:37:01.960
what you do. And it was the first time like strangers

00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:05.239
had thanked me. And I tell you that to tell you

00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:07.840
that it was refreshing not to be, Danny Boy from

00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:10.400
House of Pain. It was, are you Mr. O 'Connor

00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:13.179
from the Outsiders House Museum? And I felt like

00:37:13.179 --> 00:37:19.500
the page had been turned and that was proof of

00:37:19.500 --> 00:37:22.880
like my new life could ensue. And although I'll

00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:24.760
always be proud of being from House of Pain and

00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:28.719
what we did and, you know, everything that encompasses

00:37:28.719 --> 00:37:31.840
that, it was nice to be like, okay, this is real

00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:35.750
now. I'm moving forward with the second. phase

00:37:35.750 --> 00:37:38.309
of my life which is you know started at 50 so

00:37:38.309 --> 00:37:41.989
yeah yeah no i can imagine how powerful that

00:37:41.989 --> 00:37:43.789
must be and i want to get to the the kind of

00:37:43.789 --> 00:37:46.510
house of pain journey but just before we do just

00:37:46.510 --> 00:37:48.510
to mirror kind of what you say what you said

00:37:48.510 --> 00:37:50.269
it's something i've discussed on here a few times

00:37:50.269 --> 00:37:53.409
like being this little farm boy and loving hip

00:37:53.409 --> 00:37:56.030
-hop, I still found myself drawn towards the

00:37:56.030 --> 00:37:57.969
positive one. That was the message. I'm like,

00:37:58.070 --> 00:38:00.230
okay, well, this relates. I mean, I'm standing

00:38:00.230 --> 00:38:01.849
in a field full of sheep, so it's not quite,

00:38:01.949 --> 00:38:04.949
you know, South Central LA, but, you know, drawing

00:38:04.949 --> 00:38:08.250
the kind of pull yourself up, you know, the very

00:38:08.250 --> 00:38:11.869
positive message that came out of it. But I've

00:38:11.869 --> 00:38:13.869
kind of highlighted this point. If you look back

00:38:13.869 --> 00:38:15.710
at, you know, for example, Ice Cube with Fuck

00:38:15.710 --> 00:38:18.070
the Police or Ice -T with, you know, Cop Killer.

00:38:18.630 --> 00:38:21.809
Sure. The irony now, you know, they're both making

00:38:21.809 --> 00:38:24.230
a lot of money playing cops on television. And

00:38:24.230 --> 00:38:27.849
for me, as a 48 year old man, who's also matured

00:38:27.849 --> 00:38:29.469
and spent a whole career in the fire service,

00:38:29.489 --> 00:38:33.050
watching the real behind the curtain of gang

00:38:33.050 --> 00:38:35.690
violence and addiction and, you know, prostitution

00:38:35.690 --> 00:38:37.329
and all these things that we get to witness and

00:38:37.329 --> 00:38:40.329
scrape off the floor. To me, it's like, well,

00:38:40.349 --> 00:38:42.550
where are these voices, these older voices of

00:38:42.550 --> 00:38:44.610
hip hop that are saying, look, we've got to change

00:38:44.610 --> 00:38:47.480
the storytelling. Yes, there are some things

00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:49.980
that are a reality here, but it's projection.

00:38:50.980 --> 00:38:53.139
We're going to keep it this way if we keep talking

00:38:53.139 --> 00:38:55.639
about it. One of the ones saying, look, I get

00:38:55.639 --> 00:38:57.920
it that back then we made this money and that

00:38:57.920 --> 00:38:59.719
was kind of what we were thinking. To be honest,

00:38:59.900 --> 00:39:01.760
it sold records and it made us money. However,

00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:05.840
I love the gurus and the nazis and all those

00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:08.679
that are putting the positive stuff out there.

00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:11.500
And I just cringe when I see male or female with

00:39:11.500 --> 00:39:14.760
this. Just, you know, feeding the fire of your,

00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:16.400
you're going to be stuck in the hood. I mean,

00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:18.119
I can imagine if I had a daughter and she was

00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:20.320
listening to the WAP or, you know, that kind

00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:22.760
of, I would be like, what the, but again, we

00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:25.739
had that stuff too. So it's one of those double

00:39:25.739 --> 00:39:28.820
-edged swords, man. You know what? You ask, where's

00:39:28.820 --> 00:39:32.380
the guy? Ironically, it's Kanye. I mean, Kanye

00:39:32.380 --> 00:39:35.039
says all of the right things and people, you

00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:38.650
know, the hood disowns him for half of it. But

00:39:38.650 --> 00:39:41.769
he's saying right shit. It's mindset. It's mental

00:39:41.769 --> 00:39:47.769
slavery. And if you keep planting the same seeds,

00:39:47.869 --> 00:39:49.750
you're going to keep reaping the same harvest.

00:39:50.349 --> 00:39:56.550
Again, life on life's terms is that there will

00:39:56.550 --> 00:39:59.489
always be that fascination with street culture.

00:39:59.929 --> 00:40:02.230
Whether it's street culture that looks like outlaw

00:40:02.230 --> 00:40:08.250
bikers or street gangs or just whatever it could

00:40:08.250 --> 00:40:11.210
be. There's always the good and the bad of that.

00:40:11.289 --> 00:40:13.630
And we'll always be fascinated with the underside

00:40:13.630 --> 00:40:17.190
of any culture. I love Burroughs. I love the

00:40:17.190 --> 00:40:20.170
poets that talk about it. I just think hip hop

00:40:20.170 --> 00:40:23.309
was so solidified in that. And it captured so

00:40:23.309 --> 00:40:26.550
many minds that it almost put like a, you know,

00:40:26.550 --> 00:40:29.329
in my mind, it was okay. If you're keeping it

00:40:29.329 --> 00:40:32.550
real, you can go too far. You know what I mean?

00:40:32.670 --> 00:40:34.570
And I'm not blaming it for anything. Listen,

00:40:34.650 --> 00:40:36.630
I can get those same messages other places, but

00:40:36.630 --> 00:40:41.309
you're right. I don't know. Thinking out loud,

00:40:41.409 --> 00:40:44.789
other than Kanye. When Kanye speaks, it's so,

00:40:44.809 --> 00:40:50.489
it's so out there that it makes sense. And it's

00:40:50.489 --> 00:40:54.050
not that it's like he he's like in touch with

00:40:54.050 --> 00:40:57.349
some other like. But when you when you break

00:40:57.349 --> 00:40:59.710
down what he says, when you hear him on Joe Rogan,

00:40:59.710 --> 00:41:02.849
I heard him on TMZ even just and they were like

00:41:02.849 --> 00:41:04.269
slamming him for what he said. But I'm like,

00:41:04.289 --> 00:41:07.289
he makes sense. It's like he talks about all

00:41:07.289 --> 00:41:08.969
of that kind of stuff. He has a really good understanding

00:41:08.969 --> 00:41:11.949
of that, which is rare, especially at his level,

00:41:12.030 --> 00:41:14.409
to be in touch with God and be in touch with

00:41:14.409 --> 00:41:17.309
not that, you know, other artists haven't been.

00:41:18.030 --> 00:41:21.050
He can articulate it. It just seems like the

00:41:21.050 --> 00:41:22.309
streets don't want to hear what he's talking

00:41:22.309 --> 00:41:24.090
about. But I heard what he was saying. I was

00:41:24.090 --> 00:41:26.429
like, man, not for nothing. I kind of mirror

00:41:26.429 --> 00:41:29.230
what you're saying that, you know, he's concerned.

00:41:29.429 --> 00:41:31.210
I mean, I think he's a little bit touched, too.

00:41:31.409 --> 00:41:34.130
But sometimes you ride that line of genius and

00:41:34.130 --> 00:41:37.010
insanity. And sometimes the stuff sounds insane.

00:41:38.269 --> 00:41:41.230
But a lot of new concepts or foreign concepts

00:41:41.230 --> 00:41:44.219
sound insane until they don't. You know what

00:41:44.219 --> 00:41:47.139
I mean by that? And so, yeah, I don't know, man.

00:41:47.460 --> 00:41:50.360
I don't blame, I blame hip hop for giving me

00:41:50.360 --> 00:41:55.340
a good ladder for the foundation of a good life.

00:41:55.400 --> 00:41:58.519
It saved me in times. I lived for hip hop music.

00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:04.059
I'm a B -boy until I die. I've been other things.

00:42:04.099 --> 00:42:07.780
I've been an outlaw biker. I've been a new wave

00:42:07.780 --> 00:42:10.199
dude. I've been into mod and Scott coach. I was

00:42:10.199 --> 00:42:11.980
like, I went through every phase as a kid, you

00:42:11.980 --> 00:42:15.400
know, a prep beat, whatever. And I don't, those

00:42:15.400 --> 00:42:17.519
are not me. Those are phases that I went through

00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:20.019
that are a part of me, but I'll always be a B

00:42:20.019 --> 00:42:21.980
-boy, you know, for those at home that don't

00:42:21.980 --> 00:42:24.579
know what that is. the original thing is a break

00:42:24.579 --> 00:42:27.659
boy but it's a hip -hop head from day one it's

00:42:27.659 --> 00:42:29.880
like i'm a b -boy like every i still rock you

00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:31.960
know i still collect sneakers to a certain degree

00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:35.019
i can still when i sign my name i tag it and

00:42:35.019 --> 00:42:38.239
you know i love that that i'm always going to

00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:43.210
be a small part of the hip -hop legacy and it's

00:42:43.210 --> 00:42:45.710
a beautiful thing and hip -hop is a beautiful

00:42:45.710 --> 00:42:48.090
thing and there are a lot of people but i gravitate

00:42:48.090 --> 00:42:51.409
it to the stuff you're talking about nwa ice

00:42:51.409 --> 00:42:56.269
cube and just and worse we made worse la coca

00:42:56.269 --> 00:42:58.469
-nosa made worse and and as i started to reflect

00:42:58.469 --> 00:43:01.650
back on that i'm like we're talking crazy and

00:43:01.650 --> 00:43:04.349
it's for mature minds man and if a young kid

00:43:04.349 --> 00:43:07.780
starts to dabble in it which they always do You

00:43:07.780 --> 00:43:10.019
know, it might be it's easy for you. I could

00:43:10.019 --> 00:43:11.900
I could understand why, because I did it. It

00:43:11.900 --> 00:43:15.000
was to to not understand the boundaries of like

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:19.179
reality and fantasy or hyperbole and, you know,

00:43:19.179 --> 00:43:23.000
whatever. So enough about that. I just don't

00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:24.519
want people to come away thinking I'm bashing

00:43:24.519 --> 00:43:28.320
hip hop, especially, you know, hip hop didn't

00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:30.599
make me. I made some hip hop, you know what I

00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:33.840
mean, with my friends and hip hop. uh embraced

00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:36.679
us and the fans embraced us and it was a stepping

00:43:36.679 --> 00:43:41.099
stone to other things you know uh and it's a

00:43:41.099 --> 00:43:44.139
big part of my life it really the the the the

00:43:44.139 --> 00:43:46.579
professional part of it only lasted about six

00:43:46.579 --> 00:43:50.039
years uh my involvement prior to that was probably

00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:54.380
maybe close to a around a decade which felt like

00:43:54.380 --> 00:43:56.460
forever when you're young you know i was in hip

00:43:56.460 --> 00:44:00.659
-hop around 14 years old 13 or 14. um since definitely

00:44:00.659 --> 00:44:04.219
since uh you know rappers delight but that solidified

00:44:04.219 --> 00:44:06.940
when curtis blow and grandmaster flash are putting

00:44:06.940 --> 00:44:10.280
out those singles and from then on i went through

00:44:10.280 --> 00:44:12.460
those other phases always bringing hip -hop with

00:44:12.460 --> 00:44:14.260
me when i was a mod i still listened a lot of

00:44:14.260 --> 00:44:17.659
hip -hop um i just felt those other subcultures

00:44:17.659 --> 00:44:20.400
they weren't vast enough and there wasn't enough

00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:24.480
of us to really you know take it too far and

00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:27.059
with hip -hop but it was i felt like there was

00:44:27.059 --> 00:44:30.559
enough room for endless expansion if that makes

00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:33.039
sense and so and you know what we were definitely

00:44:33.039 --> 00:44:35.480
part of that punch in your face type of hip -hop

00:44:35.480 --> 00:44:37.579
that's the type of music we listened to that's

00:44:37.579 --> 00:44:40.500
the type of music we made and uh and it's what

00:44:40.500 --> 00:44:43.099
we're known for but if i have any regrets is

00:44:43.099 --> 00:44:46.079
that you know maybe i echoed a lot of those stereotypical

00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:51.030
uh bullshit glorifications of shit. That's not

00:44:51.030 --> 00:44:53.010
really cool anymore. It's not cool to punch people

00:44:53.010 --> 00:44:55.750
in the face anymore. Uh, you know, it's not cool

00:44:55.750 --> 00:44:58.309
to, to be a criminal. It's not cool to do those

00:44:58.309 --> 00:45:01.110
things. And, and sometimes, you know, I felt

00:45:01.110 --> 00:45:02.909
like those were the only things that I could

00:45:02.909 --> 00:45:06.050
probably do because I didn't feel smart enough.

00:45:06.110 --> 00:45:08.190
I didn't feel talented enough. I didn't feel,

00:45:08.349 --> 00:45:12.230
uh, that, that that's messaging that I, you know,

00:45:12.269 --> 00:45:14.349
was giving to myself. Nobody was telling me that

00:45:14.349 --> 00:45:16.889
I just felt that way. And, you know, I learned,

00:45:16.929 --> 00:45:20.190
uh, you know, a while ago that I don't have to

00:45:20.190 --> 00:45:22.409
believe everything I think, you know, and that's

00:45:22.409 --> 00:45:24.809
also pretty powerful stuff because just because

00:45:24.809 --> 00:45:26.829
I think it doesn't mean I have to buy it, you

00:45:26.829 --> 00:45:29.329
know, and to believe it. And my mind likes to

00:45:29.329 --> 00:45:32.429
go all over the place. And this is why, you know,

00:45:32.449 --> 00:45:36.070
I meditate and I do a gratitude list. I do a

00:45:36.070 --> 00:45:40.750
lot of service work because the day before the

00:45:40.750 --> 00:45:42.730
grace of God go out, it's easy for me to forget.

00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:46.380
uh what i've been through and it's easy for me

00:45:46.380 --> 00:45:48.320
to fall right back into it and with long -term

00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:51.320
sobriety i i can assure you this this is just

00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:53.260
for me but i've seen it in other people so i

00:45:53.260 --> 00:45:56.199
won't speak for other people but on the 15th

00:45:56.199 --> 00:45:58.000
of this month i'll have 17 years consecutive

00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:01.139
sobriety uh you know of consecutive sobriety

00:46:01.139 --> 00:46:05.500
and when things happen and you if you're not

00:46:05.500 --> 00:46:08.210
in in a spiritually fit and in a good spot and

00:46:08.210 --> 00:46:11.050
working when i'm not i don't know what somebody

00:46:11.050 --> 00:46:13.309
else is but when i'm not i never think about

00:46:13.309 --> 00:46:16.289
relapsing and using drugs or alcohol again i

00:46:16.289 --> 00:46:18.469
think about putting one in my head you know what

00:46:18.469 --> 00:46:20.550
i mean and and saving the last bullet for myself

00:46:20.550 --> 00:46:26.050
and that's how tricky this thing can get you

00:46:26.050 --> 00:46:27.829
know it's like whack -a -mole i hit one down

00:46:27.829 --> 00:46:29.550
and two other ones pop up that i didn't even

00:46:29.550 --> 00:46:31.530
know existed so i have to be mindful and i have

00:46:31.530 --> 00:46:39.460
to be I make more meetings now. People go, with

00:46:39.460 --> 00:46:41.360
almost 17 years, why do you still need meetings?

00:46:41.539 --> 00:46:43.579
Because my head is still telling me all kinds

00:46:43.579 --> 00:46:47.360
of stuff. And if I'm not working on myself on

00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:52.739
a daily basis, I'm in trouble. And so I can gloss

00:46:52.739 --> 00:46:57.059
over the House of Pain thing. In three easy little...

00:47:00.170 --> 00:47:03.130
House of Pain was a godsend. I was doing everything

00:47:03.130 --> 00:47:07.469
you would need to do from about 16 to about 20

00:47:07.469 --> 00:47:09.969
to end up in prison. Whether it was credit card

00:47:09.969 --> 00:47:12.889
theft, we were reprogramming old credit cards

00:47:12.889 --> 00:47:15.110
before there was a chip in it. We were robbing

00:47:15.110 --> 00:47:17.809
and stealing. We were selling drugs. I say we,

00:47:17.869 --> 00:47:20.210
basically I was and the people I was running

00:47:20.210 --> 00:47:23.269
with. And then I ran into Everlast, who I went

00:47:23.269 --> 00:47:25.030
to high school with. I knew him from our area.

00:47:25.269 --> 00:47:29.000
I was a fan of his first record. that he had

00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:30.719
on Warner Brothers when he was signing to IST.

00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:34.179
I knew that that was over for him. And at the

00:47:34.179 --> 00:47:36.219
time when I called him, I hadn't talked to him

00:47:36.219 --> 00:47:37.900
in a while. I could hear his mother in the background

00:47:37.900 --> 00:47:39.900
throwing him out of the house as he was on the

00:47:39.900 --> 00:47:41.820
phone with me. And I said, dude, are you OK?

00:47:42.019 --> 00:47:43.460
And he's like, no, I got to find a place to live.

00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:45.000
My mother's freaking out. I said, I'll come pick

00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:48.860
you up. And he came to my spot. My spot looked

00:47:48.860 --> 00:47:50.800
like the Grinch's sled. We had stole so many

00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:54.679
shit, bought so much shit on credit cards. He

00:47:54.679 --> 00:47:57.500
thought he was like, yeah, it's just. in heaven

00:47:57.500 --> 00:48:00.219
and uh i put some new clothes on them i hooked

00:48:00.219 --> 00:48:03.239
him up with a bunch of cds and and put a gave

00:48:03.239 --> 00:48:04.880
him a room in my cousin's house where we were

00:48:04.880 --> 00:48:07.719
all living and uh we basically started to spitball

00:48:07.719 --> 00:48:09.559
and talk about putting a group together and he

00:48:09.559 --> 00:48:11.300
loved the irish thing that i was talking about

00:48:11.300 --> 00:48:13.880
and he loved the logos that i was doing i was

00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:15.900
always like doing a little graphic art and graffiti

00:48:15.900 --> 00:48:19.380
and um before long we put a group together before

00:48:19.380 --> 00:48:22.260
long he wrote three hits on a demo we got signed

00:48:22.260 --> 00:48:24.440
at tommy boy records and we were off to the races

00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:27.599
and uh It was fun. Then it was fun with problems.

00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:29.739
And then it was just problems, just like my drinking

00:48:29.739 --> 00:48:33.579
and using was. And when it was good, the first

00:48:33.579 --> 00:48:35.599
album was great. We had great times. I got to

00:48:35.599 --> 00:48:37.260
see the world. We all got to see the world. We

00:48:37.260 --> 00:48:39.699
all got rich overnight. We all got semi -famous

00:48:39.699 --> 00:48:42.360
or celebrity status overnight. We made a big

00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:44.599
impact. And it was good. And then the second

00:48:44.599 --> 00:48:50.170
album came out. It didn't live up to the... expected

00:48:50.170 --> 00:48:52.469
success it was supposed to be bigger than the

00:48:52.469 --> 00:48:55.010
first album and it was not i think some of that

00:48:55.010 --> 00:48:56.909
was conscientious choices that everlast made

00:48:56.909 --> 00:49:01.650
not to do a pop sellout song to you know retouch

00:49:01.650 --> 00:49:04.230
to the jump around thing and he did a he did

00:49:04.230 --> 00:49:06.190
the album he he wanted to write and he was the

00:49:06.190 --> 00:49:08.110
writer so it was up to him and we supported that

00:49:08.110 --> 00:49:10.329
there was no i remember there was debates with

00:49:10.329 --> 00:49:12.010
we would take meetings and like we don't hear

00:49:12.010 --> 00:49:15.329
like a clear breakaway radio hit and he was dead

00:49:15.329 --> 00:49:17.369
sent against doing that because it was at that

00:49:17.369 --> 00:49:20.889
time for white guys to be in hip hop and be respected

00:49:20.889 --> 00:49:22.929
you had to stay away from selling out you know

00:49:22.929 --> 00:49:24.329
that was like the biggest thing you could the

00:49:24.329 --> 00:49:26.289
worst mistake you could make was to do like a

00:49:26.289 --> 00:49:29.469
taco bell commercial or uh just sell out and

00:49:29.469 --> 00:49:31.369
he was like i'm not selling out like that so

00:49:31.369 --> 00:49:34.050
he just made it he made a good record the second

00:49:34.050 --> 00:49:36.550
record was cool and but it didn't do the numbers

00:49:36.550 --> 00:49:38.590
and by the third one we're all pointing at each

00:49:38.590 --> 00:49:40.510
other we're all going different directions we

00:49:40.510 --> 00:49:43.210
all are growing at different paces and we were

00:49:43.210 --> 00:49:45.429
all kind of like just not feeling each other

00:49:45.429 --> 00:49:48.050
and he tried to put Two other dudes that we grew

00:49:48.050 --> 00:49:51.150
up with, per se, in the group. And it was like

00:49:51.150 --> 00:49:52.610
two different groups. It might as well have been

00:49:52.610 --> 00:49:54.449
called Neverlast with Friends, the third album.

00:49:54.530 --> 00:49:58.789
And it's a highly regarded record amongst a lot

00:49:58.789 --> 00:50:01.130
of House of Pain fans. I don't love it because

00:50:01.130 --> 00:50:05.130
there's too much animosity associated with it.

00:50:05.190 --> 00:50:06.889
But I understand it is a good hip -hop record.

00:50:07.010 --> 00:50:08.690
It's just not a House of Pain record, as far

00:50:08.690 --> 00:50:10.489
as I'm concerned, because there was very little

00:50:10.489 --> 00:50:13.630
of my anything in there. And in order to be House

00:50:13.630 --> 00:50:16.340
of Pain, it's got to be the both of us. That

00:50:16.340 --> 00:50:18.639
was that. We broke up. We didn't talk to each

00:50:18.639 --> 00:50:21.059
other for about a decade. He went on to get Grammys

00:50:21.059 --> 00:50:23.239
and sell a million records. Lethal went on to

00:50:23.239 --> 00:50:25.900
producing some Limp Bizkit and joining the group

00:50:25.900 --> 00:50:29.800
and selling millions of records. had no B plan

00:50:29.800 --> 00:50:32.000
and just started to do drugs to make it all go

00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:35.300
away. So at the end of a couple, about four years

00:50:35.300 --> 00:50:37.619
of downward spiral, losing the house, the cars,

00:50:37.739 --> 00:50:40.780
all of the trappings of a successful rap career,

00:50:40.920 --> 00:50:45.699
I ended up couch surfing, you know, at a girlfriend's

00:50:45.699 --> 00:50:47.360
house. I was living in an apartment, small apartment

00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:49.880
with a girlfriend, strung out on methamphetamines.

00:50:49.880 --> 00:50:52.690
And it was... One day on Ventura Boulevard in

00:50:52.690 --> 00:50:54.309
the valley that I ran into a guy that I knew

00:50:54.309 --> 00:50:56.070
was sober and he said, you don't look so good.

00:50:56.210 --> 00:50:58.449
I said, I don't feel so good. Are you still going

00:50:58.449 --> 00:51:01.050
to those meetings? He said he was. And I said,

00:51:01.110 --> 00:51:03.650
when can we go? He said, how about tonight? I

00:51:03.650 --> 00:51:07.469
took him up on it and it was a good run. I'll

00:51:07.469 --> 00:51:10.050
spare you the long story, but first year I did

00:51:10.050 --> 00:51:13.010
everything I was asked to do. I stayed sober

00:51:13.010 --> 00:51:16.090
the full year, could not believe it. Life started

00:51:16.090 --> 00:51:20.630
giving me good breaks again. Year two, I made

00:51:20.630 --> 00:51:23.269
a solo record and got paid handsomely for it.

00:51:23.409 --> 00:51:27.070
Year three, the label falls apart. I spent all

00:51:27.070 --> 00:51:28.650
that money and I started to get the buckets.

00:51:29.090 --> 00:51:31.449
And I decided that, you know what, meth had ruined

00:51:31.449 --> 00:51:33.889
my life, but maybe drinking was still something

00:51:33.889 --> 00:51:36.969
I could do since I had learned so much about

00:51:36.969 --> 00:51:40.110
myself in those three and a half years of sobriety.

00:51:40.840 --> 00:51:43.420
And so I decided to test it. The program I worked,

00:51:43.519 --> 00:51:44.920
the 12 Steps, says if you don't think you're

00:51:44.920 --> 00:51:46.880
an alcoholic to your inner core, go test it.

00:51:46.940 --> 00:51:49.420
Go try some controlled drinking. So I thought,

00:51:49.480 --> 00:51:51.800
yeah, I'll take them up on that. And I did, and

00:51:51.800 --> 00:51:54.019
it lasted about 72 hours before I was right back

00:51:54.019 --> 00:51:57.239
on methamphetamines. And I ended up going on

00:51:57.239 --> 00:52:00.539
a three -year death march. When it was all said

00:52:00.539 --> 00:52:03.699
and done, I had a warrant for my arrest. My car

00:52:03.699 --> 00:52:06.500
had been impounded and sold at auction. My teeth

00:52:06.500 --> 00:52:08.139
were falling out of my mouth, and I was living

00:52:08.139 --> 00:52:13.909
on a warehouse couch. in Hollywood and hopeless

00:52:13.909 --> 00:52:17.409
and sick and tired of being sick and tired, homicidal

00:52:17.409 --> 00:52:20.610
and suicidal. And I tried to go back and forth

00:52:20.610 --> 00:52:22.250
through the program. It just, I couldn't hear

00:52:22.250 --> 00:52:24.630
it anymore. My head was so clouded with drugs

00:52:24.630 --> 00:52:28.949
and upset and depression. And finally, I just

00:52:28.949 --> 00:52:31.070
got a window of opportunity to take another meeting.

00:52:31.389 --> 00:52:33.449
I don't know why this one worked, but I felt

00:52:33.449 --> 00:52:35.429
that if I didn't go to this meeting, it would

00:52:35.429 --> 00:52:38.630
be pretty much the last chance. So I went to

00:52:38.630 --> 00:52:40.630
the meeting and I, For the first time, I got

00:52:40.630 --> 00:52:43.610
willing again. I thought I was before. And that,

00:52:43.690 --> 00:52:46.829
like I said, is this 15th. It'll be 17 years

00:52:46.829 --> 00:52:49.369
ago that that happened. This time, I didn't want

00:52:49.369 --> 00:52:51.409
my old life back. I wanted a chance at a new

00:52:51.409 --> 00:52:53.050
life. I think the first sobriety, I thought if

00:52:53.050 --> 00:52:55.610
I was a good boy, God would give me my old life

00:52:55.610 --> 00:52:57.650
back, which would have been that hip -hop career

00:52:57.650 --> 00:53:01.409
and the Ferrari and the big house and all that

00:53:01.409 --> 00:53:03.289
shit. And this time, I just wanted a chance at

00:53:03.289 --> 00:53:05.130
a new life. And that's what I've been working

00:53:05.130 --> 00:53:09.340
on ever since. It hasn't been perfect. Life,

00:53:09.380 --> 00:53:11.960
life. It's been a lot of very high highs, but

00:53:11.960 --> 00:53:13.980
there's been a lot of low lows. You know, I've

00:53:13.980 --> 00:53:17.219
had businesses in between. I've had businesses

00:53:17.219 --> 00:53:21.420
go bad. I've been sued. I've been fucked over.

00:53:21.659 --> 00:53:23.659
I may have fucked people over. I'm sure I did

00:53:23.659 --> 00:53:27.480
in some capacity throughout these 17 years. I

00:53:27.480 --> 00:53:30.739
was happily married. Then I got divorced. It

00:53:30.739 --> 00:53:32.760
wasn't on my, it wasn't what I was looking for.

00:53:33.940 --> 00:53:36.480
And a lot of, you know, just life on life's terms

00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:40.840
is this way, you know. But me staying sober and

00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:43.920
me doing the work, which is the 12 steps, keeps

00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:46.360
me balanced and it keeps me prepared. And it's

00:53:46.360 --> 00:53:49.219
nothing that life can throw at me so far. And

00:53:49.219 --> 00:53:52.340
it's through a lot of me that, you know, I just

00:53:52.340 --> 00:53:54.760
deal with it one day at a time. And I take it

00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:58.260
as it comes. And I find myself in the center

00:53:58.260 --> 00:54:00.219
of a pack of people who are all doing what I'm

00:54:00.219 --> 00:54:04.960
doing. They're doing the impossible. They're

00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:09.920
working every day on doing what they need to

00:54:09.920 --> 00:54:13.500
do to be spiritually fit to walk through life

00:54:13.500 --> 00:54:16.539
on life's term with grace and dignity. And so

00:54:16.539 --> 00:54:18.719
by the men and women that have come before me

00:54:18.719 --> 00:54:21.780
and the people that I help that are after us,

00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:27.500
my deal is to always be of service. We're just

00:54:27.500 --> 00:54:30.000
going back to the height. I don't want to drag

00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:32.239
you through the whole House of Pain story. But

00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:36.760
one thing is this, you know, such again, another

00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:38.719
comment on it. I've done almost 600 episodes

00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:41.780
now. And so there's some very resounding themes

00:54:41.780 --> 00:54:44.619
that come out of it. And there's always this

00:54:44.619 --> 00:54:47.739
kind of reoccurring thing of what you think will

00:54:47.739 --> 00:54:49.699
fill that void, what we'll think, you know, will

00:54:49.699 --> 00:54:51.840
give you that acceptance or that self -esteem,

00:54:52.019 --> 00:54:54.889
especially when it's external. Getting to that

00:54:54.889 --> 00:54:56.670
pinnacle and still being unhappy. And one of

00:54:56.670 --> 00:54:59.469
the guys became a friend, Josh Brolin. I mean,

00:54:59.510 --> 00:55:01.909
he talks about his addiction and the steps that

00:55:01.909 --> 00:55:03.670
absolutely work for him. And he attends his meetings,

00:55:03.730 --> 00:55:07.250
has funds with his meetings. But so there you

00:55:07.250 --> 00:55:10.289
are, you got this absolutely huge album. You

00:55:10.289 --> 00:55:13.190
were talking about traveling and Ferraris. Was

00:55:13.190 --> 00:55:15.289
there any point where you felt fulfilled or were

00:55:15.289 --> 00:55:18.010
you always kind of chasing that even if it was

00:55:18.010 --> 00:55:21.150
subconscious? Yeah, no, there was a few times,

00:55:21.349 --> 00:55:23.780
man. They were very... Few and far between and

00:55:23.780 --> 00:55:30.420
similar to smoking crack. And I didn't smoke

00:55:30.420 --> 00:55:33.119
a lot of crack, but I have tried crack and crack.

00:55:33.260 --> 00:55:34.940
Unfortunately, the first hit is the one, you

00:55:34.940 --> 00:55:36.900
know, and everything after that is chasing this

00:55:36.900 --> 00:55:38.900
thing that just, it'll never feel that good again

00:55:38.900 --> 00:55:43.440
until you get off of it for enough time and then

00:55:43.440 --> 00:55:45.699
retry it again. And then the first, there were

00:55:45.699 --> 00:55:47.400
times where I thought if life just stayed this

00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:50.719
way, it would be euphoric. The right amount of

00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:53.860
money, the right amount of things. I refer to

00:55:53.860 --> 00:55:55.400
that thing you're talking about as that God -shaped

00:55:55.400 --> 00:55:58.000
hole. And no matter what I throw down it, don't

00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:03.320
fix it. And there's a million isms. If I've watched

00:56:03.320 --> 00:56:05.719
people, they get sober from drinking and using,

00:56:05.860 --> 00:56:08.239
then they start gambling and sex addiction. Or

00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:10.719
there's a million different, you know, things

00:56:10.719 --> 00:56:15.139
that you shopping, eating. Just people, we throw

00:56:15.139 --> 00:56:18.130
these things to try to make us feel better. I've

00:56:18.130 --> 00:56:20.789
also heard it described that somebody said, hey,

00:56:20.809 --> 00:56:23.969
man, I never lost anybody from experiencing the

00:56:23.969 --> 00:56:27.809
fear, but I've watched so many people die trying

00:56:27.809 --> 00:56:31.769
to avoid the feelings and not deal with those

00:56:31.769 --> 00:56:35.090
things. And it really comes down to that. That's

00:56:35.090 --> 00:56:38.409
why being spiritually fit in recovery is everything,

00:56:38.510 --> 00:56:43.190
because that's what I did. Drinking was my solution.

00:56:43.489 --> 00:56:45.610
Using was my solution. My problem was life on

00:56:45.610 --> 00:56:48.130
life's terms. If I could just have a little bit

00:56:48.130 --> 00:56:50.369
more of this or you could just let me get paid

00:56:50.369 --> 00:56:53.170
for this forever. Or if I could just have this

00:56:53.170 --> 00:56:55.150
amount of success, every record, you know, it

00:56:55.150 --> 00:56:57.349
was all conditional. If I could just have these

00:56:57.349 --> 00:57:01.570
cars, you know, I'd be good. And yeah, there's

00:57:01.570 --> 00:57:03.590
never you get those cars and you still needed

00:57:03.590 --> 00:57:06.230
two motorcycles and a jet ski. It just never

00:57:06.230 --> 00:57:09.650
ends. And so it's an inside job. Anybody who's

00:57:09.650 --> 00:57:11.510
doing recovery will tell you it's an inside job.

00:57:11.670 --> 00:57:14.150
It's like the work has to come from inside. The

00:57:14.150 --> 00:57:18.239
outside stuff is great. And I'll always have

00:57:18.239 --> 00:57:20.340
a thing for shiny things. I'm just not willing

00:57:20.340 --> 00:57:24.119
to go to the lace of insanity, what I used to,

00:57:24.119 --> 00:57:26.659
to have those things. And they don't define me

00:57:26.659 --> 00:57:28.480
as much as they did before. I'm going to be lying

00:57:28.480 --> 00:57:31.619
to tell you that I don't like things. But they

00:57:31.619 --> 00:57:38.960
change. As I grow and as years go by, I need

00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:40.980
those things less and less to really make me

00:57:40.980 --> 00:57:42.960
feel good. You know, they're more utilitarian

00:57:42.960 --> 00:57:45.539
at this point. But if I have to have them or

00:57:45.539 --> 00:57:47.320
if I want to have them, then I insist on having

00:57:47.320 --> 00:57:50.579
the ones that I want or the best. So I have less

00:57:50.579 --> 00:57:52.800
of the things that I'm interested in. But the

00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:54.559
ones that I do have, I try to make sure that

00:57:54.559 --> 00:57:56.860
they are the ones. But yes, you're absolutely

00:57:56.860 --> 00:58:00.119
right. And that was another appeal to hip hop.

00:58:00.179 --> 00:58:09.210
I mean, to be outwardly like gratuitously. showing

00:58:09.210 --> 00:58:10.949
the wealth on the outside i mean everything is

00:58:10.949 --> 00:58:14.269
about appearance right like the all of the sneakers

00:58:14.269 --> 00:58:16.710
had to be top -notch the jewelry had to be truck

00:58:16.710 --> 00:58:19.829
it had to be oversized the everything was like

00:58:19.829 --> 00:58:23.530
an extension of your wealth and that it's a tricky

00:58:23.530 --> 00:58:25.349
one man you know because that kind of wealth

00:58:25.349 --> 00:58:28.010
is like i see it now in like youtube stars or

00:58:28.010 --> 00:58:29.829
tiktokers or whatever they're making ridiculous

00:58:29.829 --> 00:58:32.900
amount of money But a lot of rappers never, especially

00:58:32.900 --> 00:58:34.699
in the golden era, like, you know, you're looking

00:58:34.699 --> 00:58:37.139
at rappers that got big chains, but that might

00:58:37.139 --> 00:58:40.360
be the extent of their wealth, you know, hung

00:58:40.360 --> 00:58:42.900
up in a chain in the car. And if you look at

00:58:42.900 --> 00:58:44.820
their career span and the records, the numbers

00:58:44.820 --> 00:58:48.099
that they sold, they're not what people are expected

00:58:48.099 --> 00:58:50.360
to sell nowadays. Right. You know, some of your

00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:52.219
favorite hip hop acts maybe only went in gold,

00:58:52.340 --> 00:58:55.139
which is a million records. Like, how long can

00:58:55.139 --> 00:58:58.369
you live? off 80s record where you sold the million

00:58:58.369 --> 00:59:00.449
records in the 80s and you're not touring and

00:59:00.449 --> 00:59:01.989
because there's no real money for you to tour

00:59:01.989 --> 00:59:04.630
where do you get money like that anymore and

00:59:04.630 --> 00:59:06.269
that was that was no different from us you know

00:59:06.269 --> 00:59:09.190
i got a million 1 .25 million dollar t -shirt

00:59:09.190 --> 00:59:12.010
deal our first album which was not that had to

00:59:12.010 --> 00:59:14.389
be nothing had to be recouped so it was like

00:59:14.389 --> 00:59:17.590
straight money into the bank um so i made you

00:59:17.590 --> 00:59:21.230
know i got an 800 000 advance on on allowing

00:59:21.230 --> 00:59:25.289
a company to license the logo from me and you

00:59:25.289 --> 00:59:28.329
know it yeah it fixes you at 20 something that

00:59:28.329 --> 00:59:33.010
kind of money sure does but it's temporary and

00:59:33.010 --> 00:59:35.250
then spending it like it was going to keep coming

00:59:35.250 --> 00:59:38.980
every year was my my mistake because it didn't

00:59:38.980 --> 00:59:42.139
come every year. It lasted about two years on

00:59:42.139 --> 00:59:44.340
an upward trajectory and then it just drops off

00:59:44.340 --> 00:59:46.760
a cliff. And the cliff is the part that you're

00:59:46.760 --> 00:59:49.940
like, oh shit, not me. How could this be? And

00:59:49.940 --> 00:59:52.159
then watch Cypress Hill keep going on. And I'm

00:59:52.159 --> 00:59:53.719
sure they had bumps in the road, but visually,

00:59:53.780 --> 00:59:55.639
if you look at the arc, it's been nice. It's

00:59:55.639 --> 00:59:57.820
been kind of like a steady progression to the

00:59:57.820 --> 01:00:00.079
top. And then they've kind of just been on a

01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:03.119
cruise, you know, at cruising altitude for the

01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:04.820
better. And I'm sure there's a million things

01:00:04.820 --> 01:00:07.880
that I didn't see, you know, behind. Everybody

01:00:07.880 --> 01:00:10.320
has that. But House of Pants, you can look and

01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:12.059
it goes straight up and it goes and it comes

01:00:12.059 --> 01:00:14.460
crashing right down. And some of that is self

01:00:14.460 --> 01:00:20.260
-imposed and self -inflicted, you know, but definitely

01:00:20.260 --> 01:00:22.139
is not great for the psyche. And it's definitely

01:00:22.139 --> 01:00:25.059
not good for an immature alcoholic addict with

01:00:25.059 --> 01:00:29.989
no real. business acumen and no real uh with

01:00:29.989 --> 01:00:32.789
a learning disability and not just and a lot

01:00:32.789 --> 01:00:35.869
of fear you know uh you you you said something

01:00:35.869 --> 01:00:38.170
that stuck out to me you said how many episodes

01:00:38.170 --> 01:00:42.449
600 uh 600 yeah yeah that's a lot of episodes

01:00:42.449 --> 01:00:45.469
and you can start to see obviously way before

01:00:45.469 --> 01:00:50.170
600 but you will see you start to see uh you

01:00:50.170 --> 01:00:52.789
know anomalies right you start to hear a lot

01:00:52.789 --> 01:00:55.130
of commonalities and you're like wow you have

01:00:55.130 --> 01:00:58.789
a really good sample size to see you know and

01:00:58.789 --> 01:01:02.389
and um you know looking back i see a lot of things

01:01:02.389 --> 01:01:04.170
like that too and i forget where i was just going

01:01:04.170 --> 01:01:05.909
with that because my dog he loves to be in my

01:01:05.909 --> 01:01:08.550
lap i just adopted this dog two weeks ago and

01:01:08.550 --> 01:01:11.710
he is the most loving creature i've ever met

01:01:11.710 --> 01:01:13.289
but i'm sitting on the bench and he just almost

01:01:13.289 --> 01:01:18.460
fell off um You start to see things, and I like

01:01:18.460 --> 01:01:21.460
that you have that kind of sample size to see

01:01:21.460 --> 01:01:23.300
those things. We were talking about God -shaped

01:01:23.300 --> 01:01:27.199
holes, and that's a very real thing for people

01:01:27.199 --> 01:01:31.539
who suffer from the thing I suffer from. And

01:01:31.539 --> 01:01:36.179
it's the thinking. My perception is skewed. What

01:01:36.179 --> 01:01:38.199
I'm looking at is what I'm looking through, and

01:01:38.199 --> 01:01:42.469
what I'm looking through is distorted. It's not

01:01:42.469 --> 01:01:43.949
what I was trying to say because I forgot what

01:01:43.949 --> 01:01:47.090
I was trying to say, but it dovetails nice into

01:01:47.090 --> 01:01:51.889
what I'm going to say. Because even at 17 years,

01:01:52.030 --> 01:01:56.690
I still need you to tell me if I'm on point,

01:01:56.849 --> 01:02:01.010
if I'm where I should be. And I can't just run

01:02:01.010 --> 01:02:04.230
it by somebody who's like my buddy, who's not

01:02:04.230 --> 01:02:06.730
going to tell me the truth or he's just not going

01:02:06.730 --> 01:02:08.989
to hurt my feelings. So I have to really stay

01:02:08.989 --> 01:02:12.239
connected to the... to the people that are walking

01:02:12.239 --> 01:02:16.000
the path with me. And I run stuff by people and

01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:19.179
I'm able to articulate better because I can't

01:02:19.179 --> 01:02:20.880
see things that you can see that I'm heading

01:02:20.880 --> 01:02:24.579
straight for at full speed. And when I get enough

01:02:24.579 --> 01:02:28.940
trust and faith that there's something out there

01:02:28.940 --> 01:02:30.719
that also is looking out for me, as long as I'm

01:02:30.719 --> 01:02:32.900
doing what I'm supposed to be doing, then it

01:02:32.900 --> 01:02:37.980
really, it puts me in a center where I feel I

01:02:37.980 --> 01:02:41.329
belong. It connects me to God in that way that

01:02:41.329 --> 01:02:43.949
I don't feel any other way. So I believe in God

01:02:43.949 --> 01:02:47.469
and it's a big part of my story as I grew and

01:02:47.469 --> 01:02:50.409
grow. But I feel at most when me and you and

01:02:50.409 --> 01:02:53.929
you don't even have to be suffering from the

01:02:53.929 --> 01:02:58.369
same thing that I do, which is the mental affliction

01:02:58.369 --> 01:03:04.750
of alcoholism and using. But I am able to find.

01:03:05.400 --> 01:03:08.219
When I talk about this and when I discuss it

01:03:08.219 --> 01:03:10.300
with other alcoholics, addicts or people like

01:03:10.300 --> 01:03:12.780
yourself, I don't know your story in that way.

01:03:12.980 --> 01:03:16.300
But then I feel the hand of God in this conversation

01:03:16.300 --> 01:03:20.699
and a power greater than ourselves because me

01:03:20.699 --> 01:03:23.760
and you together is a power greater than just

01:03:23.760 --> 01:03:28.300
me. Right. And so as I force multiply with people

01:03:28.300 --> 01:03:30.780
in the struggle that are working on the solution,

01:03:31.019 --> 01:03:35.099
that's powerful stuff. And I have a better chance

01:03:35.099 --> 01:03:39.539
when I have the hive mind in this way to keep

01:03:39.539 --> 01:03:42.820
me centered. So anybody out there that's trying

01:03:42.820 --> 01:03:44.980
to do this alone, good luck. It's a tough one.

01:03:45.139 --> 01:03:50.480
And everything I have that's good has come out

01:03:50.480 --> 01:03:54.300
of my sobriety. And it's contingent on my spiritual

01:03:54.300 --> 01:03:56.300
maintenance one day at a time. I don't think

01:03:56.300 --> 01:03:57.940
that was even what I was trying to tell you about

01:03:57.940 --> 01:04:02.380
House of Pain. I can, anything you want to know

01:04:02.380 --> 01:04:05.320
about House of Pain is great. I can fill in the

01:04:05.320 --> 01:04:09.039
blanks, but yeah, I don't, you know, kind of

01:04:09.039 --> 01:04:13.000
dovetail when my dog fell off. Poor guy, he was

01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:16.320
hanging on too. He didn't fall, but he was hanging

01:04:16.320 --> 01:04:19.420
on to his two things when I caught up. Anyway,

01:04:19.659 --> 01:04:21.840
I hope any of that made sense. No, it did. But

01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:23.760
then also you hit on something that's very pertinent

01:04:23.760 --> 01:04:27.400
to a lot of people listening. The worst person

01:04:27.400 --> 01:04:29.980
to ask if you're doing well when you're a firefighter

01:04:29.980 --> 01:04:31.760
is another firefighter, especially if they're

01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:33.840
on your crew in your station, because you're

01:04:33.840 --> 01:04:36.480
getting your asses handed to you shift after

01:04:36.480 --> 01:04:38.679
shift after shift. You're seeing the things that

01:04:38.679 --> 01:04:40.699
we see. You're sleep deprived. You're dealing

01:04:40.699 --> 01:04:42.880
with some of the politics in the organization

01:04:42.880 --> 01:04:45.860
that you work for. And so this is something that's

01:04:45.860 --> 01:04:47.760
emerged. Again, we talk about commonalities.

01:04:50.239 --> 01:04:52.420
The people outside the bubble are the people

01:04:52.420 --> 01:04:54.280
that are. So the ones that you trust. So whether

01:04:54.280 --> 01:04:56.079
it's a family member, whether it's a close friend

01:04:56.079 --> 01:04:58.679
who's not in your circle, someone you came up

01:04:58.679 --> 01:05:00.760
with who isn't in the house of pain or touring

01:05:00.760 --> 01:05:04.119
with you. And that's such an important kind of

01:05:04.119 --> 01:05:05.599
perspective. Because just like you said, and

01:05:05.599 --> 01:05:08.219
I've had that too, where I've been low as far

01:05:08.219 --> 01:05:11.960
as never so much addiction, but definitely depressive

01:05:11.960 --> 01:05:14.860
episodes, is you hit the nail on the head. I've

01:05:14.860 --> 01:05:16.000
talked about this. It's like you're underwater.

01:05:16.780 --> 01:05:19.300
You're not seeing and feeling clearly. I always

01:05:19.300 --> 01:05:21.059
tell people my adrenal glands must have been

01:05:21.059 --> 01:05:23.840
pooped out years ago because I don't have feelings.

01:05:23.920 --> 01:05:27.639
I don't have extremes. But my wife, my son, those

01:05:27.639 --> 01:05:30.679
are some of the best people for me to ask, hey,

01:05:30.760 --> 01:05:34.659
how am I doing through your eyes? Yeah, I get

01:05:34.659 --> 01:05:37.300
it. Listen, my hat's off to you. My heart's with

01:05:37.300 --> 01:05:40.239
you. Anybody who's a first responder in that

01:05:40.239 --> 01:05:44.519
line of work is really my heroes. We have a guy.

01:05:44.969 --> 01:05:47.269
Tim, who's on my board of directors at the museum,

01:05:47.449 --> 01:05:50.469
who is at Fire Station 3, which is in the neighborhood

01:05:50.469 --> 01:05:52.969
of the Outsiders House. He's now moved midtown

01:05:52.969 --> 01:05:55.429
by the Harley -Davidson dealership. But I've

01:05:55.429 --> 01:06:00.630
been on ride -alongs with both LAPD and TPD and

01:06:00.630 --> 01:06:05.329
Tulsa Fire Department. And you see a couple hour

01:06:05.329 --> 01:06:07.469
slice to what your day looks like. It is completely

01:06:07.469 --> 01:06:08.989
different than what you would see on television,

01:06:09.190 --> 01:06:11.050
where you're like, oh, these good -looking fire

01:06:11.050 --> 01:06:14.030
guys. They're eating. They've got good recipes

01:06:14.030 --> 01:06:16.170
at this firehouse. They're working out and they're

01:06:16.170 --> 01:06:18.590
doing it like, yeah, that may be a small part

01:06:18.590 --> 01:06:20.389
of it. But the stuff that you have to deal with,

01:06:20.409 --> 01:06:22.449
it's more than just putting out fires. It's dealing

01:06:22.449 --> 01:06:25.170
with car accidents, decapitation, shootings,

01:06:25.570 --> 01:06:29.010
stabbings, muggings, heroin addicts, methamphetamine

01:06:29.010 --> 01:06:31.949
addicts, just everything under the sun. You probably

01:06:31.949 --> 01:06:33.530
arrive there half the time way before the cops

01:06:33.530 --> 01:06:36.989
get there and have to sort everything out or

01:06:36.989 --> 01:06:40.199
stabilize somebody. the ambulance gets there

01:06:40.199 --> 01:06:42.139
or to the cops and the ambulance or whatever

01:06:42.139 --> 01:06:45.340
whatever it needs to be done and it's put a lot

01:06:45.340 --> 01:06:48.780
of clarity on what you guys do worldwide but

01:06:48.780 --> 01:06:51.179
and empathy as well man because that's a tough

01:06:51.179 --> 01:06:54.380
job man and and you have to you you really have

01:06:54.380 --> 01:07:00.210
to have like a really good i'm i'm guessing that

01:07:00.210 --> 01:07:02.050
you have to have some type of fucking stability

01:07:02.050 --> 01:07:05.469
and some type of like balance because you come

01:07:05.469 --> 01:07:07.449
into contact with a lot of stuff or you become

01:07:07.449 --> 01:07:09.630
completely numb and that's no good either. You

01:07:09.630 --> 01:07:11.929
don't want to be so desensitized to that that

01:07:11.929 --> 01:07:15.889
you can't, nothing, you know, that's also not

01:07:15.889 --> 01:07:18.530
so good. But my hat's off, literally a figure

01:07:18.530 --> 01:07:21.789
to lead to you, first responders, anybody who

01:07:21.789 --> 01:07:23.449
does that line of work because you're underpaid,

01:07:23.630 --> 01:07:28.090
underappreciated, and definitely there's no...

01:07:28.699 --> 01:07:30.780
There's nothing without you guys. And, you know,

01:07:30.780 --> 01:07:34.019
so, yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, I think, firstly,

01:07:34.099 --> 01:07:35.719
thank you. But I think you're right. And it's

01:07:35.719 --> 01:07:37.219
funny, I actually went back through your Instagram

01:07:37.219 --> 01:07:39.619
and saw that you had a fire right next to one

01:07:39.619 --> 01:07:40.760
of the buildings that we're going to talk about

01:07:40.760 --> 01:07:42.900
in a minute. And they responded there. So there's

01:07:42.900 --> 01:07:45.099
that other tie -in. The person who connected

01:07:45.099 --> 01:07:49.860
us, NOCO, law enforcement, LAN, NYPD. So another

01:07:49.860 --> 01:07:53.780
tie -in for our professions with you. So I would

01:07:53.780 --> 01:07:58.110
love to kind of hear. Firstly, what worked for

01:07:58.110 --> 01:07:59.769
you that last time? Because I think that's very

01:07:59.769 --> 01:08:01.489
important. And I know you felt a calling to go

01:08:01.489 --> 01:08:03.929
to the meeting, the steps themselves have worked,

01:08:03.969 --> 01:08:06.289
but what was it that worked there? And then walk

01:08:06.289 --> 01:08:08.929
me through the journey that ultimately took you

01:08:08.929 --> 01:08:12.210
to a three -day layover in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Right.

01:08:12.309 --> 01:08:17.010
So I don't know why the time I got sober 17 years

01:08:17.010 --> 01:08:18.949
ago was different than the other times I had

01:08:18.949 --> 01:08:22.090
tried as I relapsed with three and a half years.

01:08:22.779 --> 01:08:24.380
Close to three and a half years, the first time

01:08:24.380 --> 01:08:26.840
I got sober, I made a conscious choice to leave

01:08:26.840 --> 01:08:28.960
sobriety because I thought I could control drinking

01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:31.119
and that I just would stay away from the drugs

01:08:31.119 --> 01:08:34.399
that were hard. And that I could clearly say

01:08:34.399 --> 01:08:37.539
that I could admit that they had destroyed, you

01:08:37.539 --> 01:08:41.439
know, me in that moment. And so I tried to come

01:08:41.439 --> 01:08:43.239
back and forth for those three years. You know,

01:08:43.300 --> 01:08:45.380
sometimes I get a week sober. Sometimes I get

01:08:45.380 --> 01:08:47.239
close to a month. Maybe I think I even got a

01:08:47.239 --> 01:08:49.960
month chip. But something inevitably would always

01:08:49.960 --> 01:08:52.619
bring me back out where there was a. some kind

01:08:52.619 --> 01:08:55.460
of, there's always drama and tragedy in anytime

01:08:55.460 --> 01:08:57.840
you're going in and out. So that could look like

01:08:57.840 --> 01:08:59.979
a cell phone bill. My cell phone would get disconnected

01:08:59.979 --> 01:09:01.859
and I'd get the buckets. And I'm just like, ah,

01:09:01.880 --> 01:09:03.739
fuck it. I'm not, I can't. And I'd get high.

01:09:03.880 --> 01:09:06.260
And I try to figure a lot of stuff out while

01:09:06.260 --> 01:09:08.079
I was high. Methamphetamine for a guy who has

01:09:08.079 --> 01:09:11.960
a scatterbrain and ADD and, and really hard to

01:09:11.960 --> 01:09:14.880
focus gives me complete laser -like focus. And

01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:17.920
I felt like by doing those drugs, that drug that

01:09:17.920 --> 01:09:20.340
I was helping myself and solving a problem, even

01:09:20.340 --> 01:09:22.289
if it was, costing me mentally and physically

01:09:22.289 --> 01:09:25.590
uh i thought i could get ahead if i could just

01:09:25.590 --> 01:09:27.550
do this and the deal i would make myself was

01:09:27.550 --> 01:09:29.590
like i'll just do this for another week clean

01:09:29.590 --> 01:09:31.270
up my house i mean if i look around my house

01:09:31.270 --> 01:09:33.489
right now it's a nightmare i live at the corner

01:09:33.489 --> 01:09:39.229
unit at a historic hotel in the in the What do

01:09:39.229 --> 01:09:41.569
you call windows? I don't know. Anyway, a beautiful

01:09:41.569 --> 01:09:44.390
spot. But my shit looks like my desktop on my

01:09:44.390 --> 01:09:46.189
laptop, which is like shit all over the place

01:09:46.189 --> 01:09:48.550
because I'm constantly creating, juggling. I'm

01:09:48.550 --> 01:09:51.810
going back and forth to the museum. So I thought

01:09:51.810 --> 01:09:53.510
if I could just do this drug that would help

01:09:53.510 --> 01:09:55.689
me clean up my own stuff, organize my bills,

01:09:55.989 --> 01:09:58.250
all of the housekeeping stuff, right? All of

01:09:58.250 --> 01:10:00.850
the clerical shit that I'm terrible at, that

01:10:00.850 --> 01:10:02.630
it would be worth it. And then I would just pull.

01:10:03.020 --> 01:10:05.560
the ripcord and get out get off the drug and

01:10:05.560 --> 01:10:07.920
then i would then get clean it never works that

01:10:07.920 --> 01:10:10.460
way so it was always one more week one more weekend

01:10:10.460 --> 01:10:12.859
one more month and then i'll get my shit together

01:10:12.859 --> 01:10:18.140
but the time that i got sober this time i was

01:10:18.140 --> 01:10:21.100
literally out of any options i was dying inside

01:10:21.100 --> 01:10:25.020
and i literally was suicidal and homicidal homicidal

01:10:25.020 --> 01:10:27.479
because i was kind of staying also at a apartment

01:10:27.479 --> 01:10:30.579
a block away and a lady that lived lower than

01:10:30.579 --> 01:10:33.649
us was giving us problems and And that's a whole

01:10:33.649 --> 01:10:36.050
other long story. And I literally was like plotting

01:10:36.050 --> 01:10:38.369
her demise. And then there was part of me that

01:10:38.369 --> 01:10:39.869
was just like, I just should kill myself because

01:10:39.869 --> 01:10:42.050
this is just going to. I was afraid that I wasn't

01:10:42.050 --> 01:10:44.109
going to die anytime soon by doing the drugs,

01:10:44.229 --> 01:10:46.170
that I was going to live to be 90 on my knees.

01:10:46.270 --> 01:10:49.390
And that was even worse than dying. And this

01:10:49.390 --> 01:10:52.250
guy called me in the right time. And my mindset

01:10:52.250 --> 01:10:55.329
was just like, fuck it, let's go. And I went

01:10:55.329 --> 01:10:57.250
and I in that moment, I just said, I'm going

01:10:57.250 --> 01:10:59.909
to stay willing. no matter what. And there's

01:10:59.909 --> 01:11:01.449
been a lot of no matter what's that have come

01:11:01.449 --> 01:11:04.350
up and I just keep on going. So that's that.

01:11:04.489 --> 01:11:07.390
I don't have a clear, there wasn't like a, you

01:11:07.390 --> 01:11:09.909
know, usually good sobriety starts with the God

01:11:09.909 --> 01:11:12.010
help me prayer. That's that simple. And I'm sure

01:11:12.010 --> 01:11:14.350
I said, God helped me in that, that thing because

01:11:14.350 --> 01:11:19.869
I needed it. And then what happens is as I get

01:11:19.869 --> 01:11:22.529
clean, I take an old idea, which is La Coconostra

01:11:22.529 --> 01:11:26.810
and I put it back together. La Coconostra was

01:11:26.810 --> 01:11:30.369
something that, in a nutshell, the DJ from House

01:11:30.369 --> 01:11:32.550
of Pain, we remained friends while me and Everlast

01:11:32.550 --> 01:11:35.489
remained estranged at that time. And he had a

01:11:35.489 --> 01:11:38.710
label deal at Geffen and he was looking for acts.

01:11:38.930 --> 01:11:40.550
And I used to meet a lot of people because I

01:11:40.550 --> 01:11:43.149
was always outgoing and on the scene. And I met

01:11:43.149 --> 01:11:45.130
a kid from Boston named Slane who was an incredible

01:11:45.130 --> 01:11:49.229
talent. And he reminded me of what I first saw

01:11:49.229 --> 01:11:51.529
when I saw Everlast doing his thing. I was like,

01:11:51.590 --> 01:11:54.779
this guy is like a level above. the levels that

01:11:54.779 --> 01:11:59.439
we know in our in our scene and I thought I'd

01:11:59.439 --> 01:12:02.279
bring him to Lethal to make a record and I also

01:12:02.279 --> 01:12:04.439
had met another kid from the Bronx and then Lethal

01:12:04.439 --> 01:12:06.800
was working with another rapper and we decided

01:12:06.800 --> 01:12:08.939
instead of making three records with three solo

01:12:08.939 --> 01:12:10.500
artists maybe we could put the three of those

01:12:10.500 --> 01:12:14.409
guys together and make one record and Two of

01:12:14.409 --> 01:12:17.149
them ended up staying in that group. We started

01:12:17.149 --> 01:12:19.149
adding people to it. They asked me if I would

01:12:19.149 --> 01:12:21.630
join as like the hype man and the creative director

01:12:21.630 --> 01:12:23.369
since I had like, you know, come up with the

01:12:23.369 --> 01:12:26.109
name and the logo. And I was like, absolutely.

01:12:26.630 --> 01:12:29.710
And Lethal would become the DJ. And then we recruited

01:12:29.710 --> 01:12:34.050
Ill Bill from Nonfiction, who was a fan of his

01:12:34.050 --> 01:12:38.630
work as well. And in the 11th hour on Facebook,

01:12:38.770 --> 01:12:40.470
Everlast reached out to me the first time in

01:12:40.470 --> 01:12:43.579
a decade saying, I love your new group. I want

01:12:43.579 --> 01:12:45.380
to get down with it. And I thought, OK, well,

01:12:45.420 --> 01:12:47.600
shit, this is weird. But I was, you know, I was

01:12:47.600 --> 01:12:49.880
like, OK, you know, part of me was the validation

01:12:49.880 --> 01:12:51.619
that he'd just come out of the blue, you know,

01:12:51.619 --> 01:12:53.680
wanted to be down with it. And part of me was

01:12:53.680 --> 01:12:58.319
a little worried, you know, that what was what

01:12:58.319 --> 01:13:00.439
is the true cost of this thing? Because I had

01:13:00.439 --> 01:13:02.380
been burned by him before as far as, you know,

01:13:02.399 --> 01:13:03.800
him walking away from a group and leaving me

01:13:03.800 --> 01:13:07.239
high and dry and not being concerned with whatever

01:13:07.239 --> 01:13:09.279
became of my life after he walked out, knowing

01:13:09.279 --> 01:13:11.670
that it would cost me. And all of us, really.

01:13:11.829 --> 01:13:14.369
He didn't seem to care about that. So I was,

01:13:14.489 --> 01:13:17.010
you know, like I felt like the prodigal son was

01:13:17.010 --> 01:13:18.810
trying to come home. And I said, yeah, I'd love

01:13:18.810 --> 01:13:20.470
to do it. We'd love to do a song with you. He

01:13:20.470 --> 01:13:22.850
goes, no, I want to join the group. So I asked

01:13:22.850 --> 01:13:25.310
Bill and he was he was he was like on the fence,

01:13:25.369 --> 01:13:26.930
too. He was like, well, fuck it. The guy can

01:13:26.930 --> 01:13:29.409
write hits. So let's do it. So we made the deal

01:13:29.409 --> 01:13:32.310
and he came in the group and we started touring

01:13:32.310 --> 01:13:35.340
and. The first tour we went on, we were an opening

01:13:35.340 --> 01:13:37.180
act for the Cottonmouth Kings. We were signed

01:13:37.180 --> 01:13:38.760
to the same label that we ended up signing to.

01:13:39.239 --> 01:13:42.020
And it ended us up on a three day layover. We

01:13:42.020 --> 01:13:44.520
played a show here at the Canes Ballroom, which

01:13:44.520 --> 01:13:51.119
is a historic old school cowboy, Western swing

01:13:51.119 --> 01:13:54.079
dancing, legendary spot. The Sex Pistols played

01:13:54.079 --> 01:13:55.920
here and everybody under the sun, but then notably

01:13:55.920 --> 01:13:58.800
the Sex Pistols second to last show ever in the

01:13:58.800 --> 01:14:00.859
U .S. on their first and only tour of the U .S.

01:14:01.300 --> 01:14:06.039
You know, on the original, It brought me here.

01:14:06.100 --> 01:14:07.680
And I realized when I was here that my favorite

01:14:07.680 --> 01:14:10.239
movie and book was filmed and written here, which

01:14:10.239 --> 01:14:12.460
was The Outsiders. And so on my day off, I ended

01:14:12.460 --> 01:14:15.760
up hiring a cab to take me around looking for

01:14:15.760 --> 01:14:17.720
these locations. And I was able to find the drive

01:14:17.720 --> 01:14:20.399
-in from the movie, the park from the movie.

01:14:20.420 --> 01:14:22.460
And by finding the park, I found the house. And

01:14:22.460 --> 01:14:26.560
it was literally, to me, at the time, I may have

01:14:26.560 --> 01:14:30.100
had five years sober. I had just bought a new

01:14:30.100 --> 01:14:33.640
point -and -click camera. And I was highly caffeinated,

01:14:33.720 --> 01:14:36.619
as always. And I thought, this is the greatest

01:14:36.619 --> 01:14:40.140
thing since sliced bread. Tulsa looked like Tulsa

01:14:40.140 --> 01:14:42.579
looked in the movie, which was filmed in 82,

01:14:42.859 --> 01:14:46.960
but was supposed to be portraying 67. And it

01:14:46.960 --> 01:14:48.979
was literally like, I might as well have been

01:14:48.979 --> 01:14:52.359
on the back lot of Universal Studios to a set

01:14:52.359 --> 01:14:54.140
that was just still up from the 80s. Because

01:14:54.140 --> 01:14:56.399
it was so realistic and so just like it was in

01:14:56.399 --> 01:14:59.779
the movies. I thought almost I died and went

01:14:59.779 --> 01:15:03.500
to heaven. And by the time I get to the house

01:15:03.500 --> 01:15:07.479
and start taking photos, I look down and there's

01:15:07.479 --> 01:15:09.340
a for sale sign. So when I get back to the hotel,

01:15:09.460 --> 01:15:11.960
I look it up and they want $42 ,000 for that

01:15:11.960 --> 01:15:14.880
house. I was shocked. One, I was shocked that

01:15:14.880 --> 01:15:16.699
it was still on earth. Two, I was shocked that

01:15:16.699 --> 01:15:18.859
it was for sale. And three, how cheap it was.

01:15:18.920 --> 01:15:20.939
Because in LA, you couldn't buy a house for $42

01:15:20.939 --> 01:15:25.739
,000 since, I don't know, the 30s, 40s, the 50s.

01:15:25.739 --> 01:15:28.069
Who knows? A long time is all I'm trying to say.

01:15:28.550 --> 01:15:30.970
And as much as I was intrigued by it, I thought,

01:15:30.989 --> 01:15:32.869
man, I don't know anything about Tulsa and I

01:15:32.869 --> 01:15:36.550
have no business. I was probably worth at best

01:15:36.550 --> 01:15:38.789
at that time, maybe $30 ,000. So I would have

01:15:38.789 --> 01:15:40.510
had to come up with another $12 ,000 just to

01:15:40.510 --> 01:15:42.850
buy the house. And although it would have been

01:15:42.850 --> 01:15:45.149
a smart investment because it was a house, I

01:15:45.149 --> 01:15:46.649
just didn't know anything about Tulsa. And I

01:15:46.649 --> 01:15:48.350
lived in Beverly Hills, California in a nice

01:15:48.350 --> 01:15:50.850
little apartment. So I thought. Be careful, Danny.

01:15:51.649 --> 01:15:53.890
What ends up happening, I've become obsessed

01:15:53.890 --> 01:15:55.949
with the place. I start doing a lot of urban

01:15:55.949 --> 01:15:58.590
exploring on that tour, which was a new concept.

01:16:00.010 --> 01:16:04.050
The convergence of having a smartphone, a tour

01:16:04.050 --> 01:16:08.670
bus with Internet access and Google became like

01:16:08.670 --> 01:16:11.029
a way for me to use that tour bus because I was

01:16:11.029 --> 01:16:13.250
the only dude sober on that tour. So every time

01:16:13.250 --> 01:16:15.850
we'd pull into town, they were heading for the

01:16:15.850 --> 01:16:18.069
hotel to sleep it off. And I was heading out.

01:16:18.409 --> 01:16:20.550
to find any type of point of interest from anything

01:16:20.550 --> 01:16:24.390
that was pop culture, you know, pop culturally

01:16:24.390 --> 01:16:30.270
relevant to me. So if I was in Minneapolis, I'm

01:16:30.270 --> 01:16:32.789
looking for Purple Rain, you know, I'm looking

01:16:32.789 --> 01:16:34.989
for locations from Purple Rain or Mary Tyler

01:16:34.989 --> 01:16:37.649
Moore Show or whatever. If I'm in Atlanta, I'm

01:16:37.649 --> 01:16:39.430
looking for the place that the Sex Pistols played

01:16:39.430 --> 01:16:41.869
on that first tour. I'm looking for anything

01:16:41.869 --> 01:16:43.850
that would have been, you know, something that

01:16:43.850 --> 01:16:46.560
I could take an old photo. off the internet and

01:16:46.560 --> 01:16:48.520
then mash it with a new photo and put that online.

01:16:49.000 --> 01:16:51.840
And in doing so, this is how I meet Knocko Nolan,

01:16:52.220 --> 01:16:57.039
the former NYPD, now currently LAPD detective.

01:16:57.560 --> 01:17:00.180
And we hit it off like that. We start this thing

01:17:00.180 --> 01:17:03.100
called Delta Bravo Urban Exploration Team. And

01:17:03.100 --> 01:17:05.539
in a nutshell, all we are is just self -appointed

01:17:05.539 --> 01:17:09.819
pop culture detectives. Anything that strikes

01:17:09.819 --> 01:17:14.260
my interest from the past. I'll freeze frame

01:17:14.260 --> 01:17:16.060
it. I'll take a screen grab of it. And I'll go

01:17:16.060 --> 01:17:18.439
now, where was this baseball field from, from

01:17:18.439 --> 01:17:21.880
the bad news bears? Or where was this dugout

01:17:21.880 --> 01:17:24.899
from fast times at Ridgemont high or where, whatever

01:17:24.899 --> 01:17:27.680
your thing is, album covers, where's the LL Cool

01:17:27.680 --> 01:17:30.399
J album cover where he's on his Jaguar leaning

01:17:30.399 --> 01:17:32.960
on the school fence. And I found out it was in

01:17:32.960 --> 01:17:35.479
St. Albans Queens at his high school. And I went

01:17:35.479 --> 01:17:37.220
back to that high school when I was in New York

01:17:37.220 --> 01:17:39.739
and I matched up the photo and I took the exact

01:17:39.739 --> 01:17:43.159
photo. And then I put. I superimpose them together

01:17:43.159 --> 01:17:46.460
in Photoshop and I post them online for fun.

01:17:46.619 --> 01:17:49.600
And I started to attract a lot of people like

01:17:49.600 --> 01:17:53.159
minded. And we we still do it. It's still it's

01:17:53.159 --> 01:17:55.159
still a real thing on Facebook. And it's got

01:17:55.159 --> 01:17:57.239
I'm going to guess, you know, a couple hundred

01:17:57.239 --> 01:18:01.039
members, but a couple I say 20 people religiously

01:18:01.039 --> 01:18:03.800
constantly always. producing content looking

01:18:03.800 --> 01:18:07.380
for locations it was just a fun clean hobby that

01:18:07.380 --> 01:18:09.739
anybody could basically do there's no buy -in

01:18:09.739 --> 01:18:12.600
there's no it's not like you have to have anything

01:18:12.600 --> 01:18:15.060
to qualify or to be in the team you just say

01:18:15.060 --> 01:18:17.319
you're in and you post the photos and you tag

01:18:17.319 --> 01:18:19.899
them with the tag and you're done and what happens

01:18:19.899 --> 01:18:22.479
is it takes me across the U .S. because at the

01:18:22.479 --> 01:18:25.399
time we you know we did La Coca Nostra for a

01:18:25.399 --> 01:18:26.899
couple years and then it kind of fizzled out

01:18:26.899 --> 01:18:31.010
for a million different reasons And I was just

01:18:31.010 --> 01:18:32.649
talking about this yesterday, man. I said, you

01:18:32.649 --> 01:18:34.989
know what, if I'm going to be time, if I'm going

01:18:34.989 --> 01:18:38.069
to be cash poor, then I can look at it as also

01:18:38.069 --> 01:18:40.529
being time rich. And I said, you know, I barely

01:18:40.529 --> 01:18:43.590
have enough to get by, but I have all this free

01:18:43.590 --> 01:18:45.430
time and I can either sit around and complain

01:18:45.430 --> 01:18:48.170
that I don't have any opportunities to make money

01:18:48.170 --> 01:18:50.670
right now, or I can use this downtime to do something

01:18:50.670 --> 01:18:52.989
that I'm passionate about and that I love and

01:18:52.989 --> 01:18:55.189
just take a break and do my thing. And so what

01:18:55.189 --> 01:18:57.649
I did was just that. I started to just scratch

01:18:57.649 --> 01:19:00.649
up enough gas money. And enough, you know, the

01:19:00.649 --> 01:19:02.510
files of the things I was looking for. And my

01:19:02.510 --> 01:19:04.569
wife would be at work and I would just go out

01:19:04.569 --> 01:19:06.869
on the day. Sometimes I'd grab Knuckle on his

01:19:06.869 --> 01:19:09.149
days off. Sometimes I'd grab other people. A

01:19:09.149 --> 01:19:11.050
lot of times I went alone because everybody actually

01:19:11.050 --> 01:19:13.970
was actually working a real job. And I started

01:19:13.970 --> 01:19:17.149
to explore all of the things that were like,

01:19:17.310 --> 01:19:21.060
you know, of interest to me. million things that

01:19:21.060 --> 01:19:22.600
weren't of interest that were maybe interesting

01:19:22.600 --> 01:19:25.720
to not go or other people and then it became

01:19:25.720 --> 01:19:28.539
this like lifelong passionate uh project that

01:19:28.539 --> 01:19:30.899
we do there's no end to it there's no end game

01:19:30.899 --> 01:19:34.680
to it it's really to experience life and to enjoy

01:19:34.680 --> 01:19:40.180
life and to kind of get a uh an end to like where

01:19:40.180 --> 01:19:42.100
was that filmed where was that shot taken now

01:19:42.100 --> 01:19:44.020
we know and now it's shared collective information

01:19:44.020 --> 01:19:46.840
for other fans to go see and what happened is

01:19:46.840 --> 01:19:49.560
i kept bringing me through tulsa oklahoma i realized

01:19:49.560 --> 01:19:51.439
that i didn't have to fly anywhere i could drive

01:19:51.439 --> 01:19:54.020
this old cop car that i bought uh i bought a

01:19:54.020 --> 01:19:56.420
retired uh you could do this in the states you

01:19:56.420 --> 01:19:58.880
could once they get rid of the old fleet they

01:19:58.880 --> 01:20:00.859
can they sell it at auction and you can get a

01:20:00.859 --> 01:20:05.539
cheap uh all blacked out unmarked cop car and

01:20:05.539 --> 01:20:07.260
driving around. And people don't know, at the

01:20:07.260 --> 01:20:08.460
time, people didn't know if you were really a

01:20:08.460 --> 01:20:11.180
cop or not, which makes great for exploring because

01:20:11.180 --> 01:20:13.079
nobody wants to mess with you when you're at

01:20:13.079 --> 01:20:15.539
locations. And when I stayed at the chief hotels

01:20:15.539 --> 01:20:19.079
that I stayed at, nobody messed with my car because

01:20:19.079 --> 01:20:20.579
they didn't know if it was a cop car or not.

01:20:20.899 --> 01:20:23.460
And I started to just go across the U .S. a lot

01:20:23.460 --> 01:20:25.260
of times by myself. And I would always make it

01:20:25.260 --> 01:20:27.140
to Tulsa. So it was a two -day trip from L .A.

01:20:27.520 --> 01:20:29.439
And I would always look at this house. And by

01:20:29.439 --> 01:20:34.829
five years of doing this, I started to get super

01:20:34.829 --> 01:20:37.130
worried. I was worried and rightfully so that

01:20:37.130 --> 01:20:39.329
the Habitat for Humanity, which is an organization

01:20:39.329 --> 01:20:42.050
that builds affordable houses in bad neighborhoods

01:20:42.050 --> 01:20:44.569
for people who wouldn't qualify for normal loans.

01:20:45.069 --> 01:20:48.050
And I'm a fan of what they do per se, but I wasn't

01:20:48.050 --> 01:20:49.729
going to be a fan if they tore down the Outsiders

01:20:49.729 --> 01:20:52.289
house and they were going block for block. And

01:20:52.289 --> 01:20:53.970
every year there would be another block torn

01:20:53.970 --> 01:20:56.970
out. and new homes put in. And they were about

01:20:56.970 --> 01:20:58.689
a block away from the outsider's house when I

01:20:58.689 --> 01:21:00.369
thought, no, no, no, no, no. This is not going

01:21:00.369 --> 01:21:02.989
to be good. They're going to mess around and

01:21:02.989 --> 01:21:04.750
tear this house down and not even know that it's

01:21:04.750 --> 01:21:07.689
an important piece of American history. And so

01:21:07.689 --> 01:21:09.470
that's when I started to get scared. And I got

01:21:09.470 --> 01:21:11.810
scared enough to find out who owned it. And I

01:21:11.810 --> 01:21:13.630
had a buddy of mine do the deal. And we ended

01:21:13.630 --> 01:21:14.970
up making a deal. I ended up buying the house

01:21:14.970 --> 01:21:19.359
for $15 ,000. It's a steal. But on the same token,

01:21:19.619 --> 01:21:21.060
when I got to the house, because I bought it

01:21:21.060 --> 01:21:23.520
sight unseen, when I finally drove back out to

01:21:23.520 --> 01:21:26.000
take possession of the house, it was in such

01:21:26.000 --> 01:21:27.619
bad shape that everybody else told me, I don't

01:21:27.619 --> 01:21:29.779
know that it's savable. You might have just bought

01:21:29.779 --> 01:21:32.840
something that's a teardown, dude. And I didn't

01:21:32.840 --> 01:21:35.720
have any more money to spend. I was in it for

01:21:35.720 --> 01:21:37.939
20 grand at the time. I paid 15 for the house

01:21:37.939 --> 01:21:39.859
and I paid 5 ,000 for the tenants who were eight

01:21:39.859 --> 01:21:42.539
months behind in rent to leave and get to another

01:21:42.539 --> 01:21:45.739
spot, which was awesome as I look back. I'm not

01:21:45.739 --> 01:21:47.159
trying to pat myself on the back, but there are

01:21:47.159 --> 01:21:49.239
many times where I was faux homeless and had

01:21:49.239 --> 01:21:50.939
no money and nobody offered me five grand to

01:21:50.939 --> 01:21:53.779
fuck off and go somewhere else. So God bless.

01:21:54.479 --> 01:21:57.819
But and then I, you know, I attribute again to

01:21:57.819 --> 01:22:00.960
my sobriety as a six foot six alpha male. I know

01:22:00.960 --> 01:22:04.560
nothing about restoring homes, nothing. And it's

01:22:04.560 --> 01:22:07.380
hard for me to say I need help, you know, but

01:22:07.380 --> 01:22:09.539
I figured out that, you know, I've been afraid

01:22:09.539 --> 01:22:11.939
of what people think of me for so long and especially.

01:22:12.670 --> 01:22:14.829
To not know with such a stigma. How the fuck

01:22:14.829 --> 01:22:17.569
do you not know how to do that? But I had to

01:22:17.569 --> 01:22:19.489
just get honest and say, I don't know the first

01:22:19.489 --> 01:22:21.569
thing about this. What I'm passionate about is

01:22:21.569 --> 01:22:25.930
the legacy, the story, and the house. But I don't

01:22:25.930 --> 01:22:28.210
know how to restore this house. If you're interested,

01:22:28.310 --> 01:22:31.250
could you help me? And I asked for help. And

01:22:31.250 --> 01:22:34.449
shockingly enough, which seems to be the thing,

01:22:34.510 --> 01:22:36.569
if you ask for help, don't be surprised if the

01:22:36.569 --> 01:22:38.649
help shows up. And the help is just that. And

01:22:38.649 --> 01:22:41.449
little by little, this community surrounded me.

01:22:42.380 --> 01:22:44.680
Whether it was gifts in kind, meaning they'd

01:22:44.680 --> 01:22:46.560
say, hey, man, that roof looks terrible. You

01:22:46.560 --> 01:22:48.380
want us to, we're a shingle company. We'll come

01:22:48.380 --> 01:22:50.899
out and fix the shingles. Or that thing is leaking

01:22:50.899 --> 01:22:53.899
into your fireplace. There was a chimney and

01:22:53.899 --> 01:22:55.760
it was leaking into the wood. They're like, hey,

01:22:55.840 --> 01:22:58.649
you need to. Flash that. I don't know what flash

01:22:58.649 --> 01:23:00.130
that meant. You know, they knew what it meant.

01:23:00.250 --> 01:23:02.750
They'd come and flash the thing. And then there

01:23:02.750 --> 01:23:04.449
was a million little things like that. People

01:23:04.449 --> 01:23:06.229
would say, hey, man, the grass is like atrocious.

01:23:06.250 --> 01:23:08.449
It's up to your waist. After work, me and my

01:23:08.449 --> 01:23:10.369
daughter will come and we'll mow your lawn. I'm

01:23:10.369 --> 01:23:12.430
like, who does that? Like, this is something

01:23:12.430 --> 01:23:14.130
that I don't know what happened in L .A. or New

01:23:14.130 --> 01:23:16.750
York. And this is just being honest. But in Tulsa,

01:23:16.770 --> 01:23:19.430
Oklahoma, they cared. And little by little, we

01:23:19.430 --> 01:23:21.529
started to repair that house and we got it back.

01:23:23.300 --> 01:23:25.579
stabilized, and then the job was to go through

01:23:25.579 --> 01:23:27.079
it and make it look like it did in the movie.

01:23:27.920 --> 01:23:29.500
Simultaneously, I'm going out trying to collect

01:23:29.500 --> 01:23:31.920
everything under the sun that pertains to the

01:23:31.920 --> 01:23:34.000
movie The Outsiders. At the time, I had one poster

01:23:34.000 --> 01:23:36.560
when I bought the house. I'm proud to say we

01:23:36.560 --> 01:23:39.039
have the largest collection of Outsiders movie

01:23:39.039 --> 01:23:43.880
memorabilia, screen -worn wardrobe, and the largest

01:23:43.880 --> 01:23:46.479
Outsiders book collection known to man here in

01:23:46.479 --> 01:23:48.439
Tulsa, Oklahoma at the Outsiders House Museum.

01:23:49.159 --> 01:23:51.920
And it was really just a passion project that...

01:23:52.710 --> 01:23:55.770
If I wrote it and you read it, you'd think I

01:23:55.770 --> 01:23:58.550
was bullshitting. And this is the way life is.

01:23:58.649 --> 01:24:00.350
And it would take me another two hours to unpack

01:24:00.350 --> 01:24:03.329
all the things that happened. But I can tell

01:24:03.329 --> 01:24:06.789
you this. And I tell this to school children.

01:24:06.890 --> 01:24:08.829
I get asked to speak a lot because The Outsiders

01:24:08.829 --> 01:24:10.869
is mostly required reading for seventh graders.

01:24:11.689 --> 01:24:13.949
And they want me to come out and talk to the

01:24:13.949 --> 01:24:15.909
kids. And I always tell them who I am. I feel

01:24:15.909 --> 01:24:19.329
like they're old enough to understand that I'm

01:24:19.329 --> 01:24:22.640
damaged goods that is now. found a way out. And

01:24:22.640 --> 01:24:25.720
what I do tell them is this. I tell them that

01:24:25.720 --> 01:24:34.520
a good education, a good game plan, and the financials

01:24:34.520 --> 01:24:37.279
in order, when you embark on a project like this,

01:24:37.399 --> 01:24:40.920
that sometimes you're going to have no real money,

01:24:41.060 --> 01:24:43.659
no real plan, but you're going to feel passionately

01:24:43.659 --> 01:24:45.539
about it. And instinctually, you're going to

01:24:45.539 --> 01:24:48.640
know that this is something for you. Jump in

01:24:48.640 --> 01:24:50.779
and do it anyway. The worst thing that happens

01:24:50.779 --> 01:24:53.659
is you fail and you learn. The best thing that

01:24:53.659 --> 01:24:55.960
happens, what happened for me was that we did

01:24:55.960 --> 01:24:58.600
the impossible. I had no real money after what

01:24:58.600 --> 01:25:01.239
I put to get in the door. The place was in a

01:25:01.239 --> 01:25:03.300
hundred times worse condition than I assumed

01:25:03.300 --> 01:25:05.760
it was in because I had saw it online on Zillow

01:25:05.760 --> 01:25:07.340
when they were trying to sell it five years prior.

01:25:08.260 --> 01:25:10.859
And I had nothing to show if I was going to make

01:25:10.859 --> 01:25:13.380
a museum anyway, except for one poster. And in

01:25:13.380 --> 01:25:15.079
the end of three and a half years, I had everything

01:25:15.079 --> 01:25:18.750
I wanted and then some because. it's amazing

01:25:18.750 --> 01:25:21.130
what we can do when you're dedicated and you're

01:25:21.130 --> 01:25:25.109
passionate about it. And so I, if it's one kid

01:25:25.109 --> 01:25:27.409
that needs to hear that, so be it. You know what

01:25:27.409 --> 01:25:29.449
I mean? Because I, I need to know that. And,

01:25:29.510 --> 01:25:31.850
you know, I don't know how much you know about

01:25:31.850 --> 01:25:33.609
the author, but I'll just tell you that she wrote

01:25:33.609 --> 01:25:36.449
the outsiders when she was 15 and a half, she

01:25:36.449 --> 01:25:38.449
was failing English and got a D plus in creative

01:25:38.449 --> 01:25:40.689
writing or got a D plus in English and failed.

01:25:41.800 --> 01:25:44.180
Creative writing. One or the other. That's very

01:25:44.180 --> 01:25:47.319
low marks for a student to write an international

01:25:47.319 --> 01:25:49.619
classic. It has never been out of print in 54

01:25:49.619 --> 01:25:53.659
years. And I'm told it sold more on the 50th

01:25:53.659 --> 01:25:55.479
anniversary than all the years combined. I don't

01:25:55.479 --> 01:25:58.340
know how that works, but that's the story. So

01:25:58.340 --> 01:26:01.439
we're sticking to it. She's still alive. She's

01:26:01.439 --> 01:26:04.640
the number one supporter of the museum financially

01:26:04.640 --> 01:26:11.079
and with donations of collectibles. It's amazing

01:26:11.079 --> 01:26:17.460
what happens when you get down and roll up your

01:26:17.460 --> 01:26:20.159
sleeves and get on into it. Again, I have a ninth

01:26:20.159 --> 01:26:22.819
grade education. I have no idea on how to restore

01:26:22.819 --> 01:26:26.560
homes. But people, when I talked about what I

01:26:26.560 --> 01:26:30.340
wanted to do, they heard my plea because they

01:26:30.340 --> 01:26:32.979
knew I was coming from the heart and speaking

01:26:32.979 --> 01:26:35.560
of their heart, not from head to head. That I

01:26:35.560 --> 01:26:40.539
didn't have this budget. I was using that I didn't

01:26:40.539 --> 01:26:42.239
have a plan for how it was going to happen. I

01:26:42.239 --> 01:26:45.260
just said, hey, I love this book. I love this

01:26:45.260 --> 01:26:47.000
movie. And I think it would be a shame if this

01:26:47.000 --> 01:26:49.260
house gets erased off of the earth. I think we

01:26:49.260 --> 01:26:51.100
can do something better with it and turn it into

01:26:51.100 --> 01:26:53.680
a museum and that fans from around the world

01:26:53.680 --> 01:26:55.619
can come see what this little girl at 15 and

01:26:55.619 --> 01:26:57.880
a half did by writing her book and the effect

01:26:57.880 --> 01:27:00.359
that it had on all of us. And people said, fuck

01:27:00.359 --> 01:27:02.819
yeah, I understand it. I'm going to help you.

01:27:02.880 --> 01:27:06.340
And everybody from Jack White donated 30 grand.

01:27:07.800 --> 01:27:10.020
When I ran into Billy Idol, he was playing here.

01:27:10.119 --> 01:27:12.680
As a kid, young kid, Billy Idol was my everything.

01:27:12.819 --> 01:27:15.520
I wanted to be Billy Idol so bad it hurt. I went

01:27:15.520 --> 01:27:18.560
to see Billy. He said, come on back. Come in

01:27:18.560 --> 01:27:20.960
the dressing room. He said, how's the house?

01:27:21.340 --> 01:27:23.640
I said, the house? He said, the outsider's house,

01:27:23.699 --> 01:27:25.909
mate. I said, you know about the house? How do

01:27:25.909 --> 01:27:27.289
you know about the house? He's like, come on,

01:27:27.310 --> 01:27:29.729
man. I said, he said, I heard Jack gave you 30

01:27:29.729 --> 01:27:32.050
grand. I said, yeah. I go, damn, so you do know

01:27:32.050 --> 01:27:33.930
about the house. He goes, I'd like to give you

01:27:33.930 --> 01:27:35.510
something, too. I go, you would? He goes, yeah,

01:27:35.529 --> 01:27:37.189
not 30 grand, but I'm going to give you something.

01:27:37.289 --> 01:27:40.289
So he gave me a nice little check. I tell you

01:27:40.289 --> 01:27:42.829
that to tell you, man, my mind explodes when

01:27:42.829 --> 01:27:45.180
there's a million little stories like this. But

01:27:45.180 --> 01:27:47.100
the fact that like the 13 year old me who went

01:27:47.100 --> 01:27:48.859
to see The Outsiders and fell in love with this

01:27:48.859 --> 01:27:50.979
movie because I saw my story being told for the

01:27:50.979 --> 01:27:53.340
first time on screen in a different era, in a

01:27:53.340 --> 01:27:55.119
different neighborhood, in different, you know,

01:27:55.119 --> 01:27:59.399
aesthetics, but the same feelings of disconnecting,

01:27:59.399 --> 01:28:01.680
finding your tribe outside of the house that

01:28:01.680 --> 01:28:03.800
you didn't find at home and sticking together

01:28:03.800 --> 01:28:07.560
at all costs. And to think that 30 years later

01:28:07.560 --> 01:28:10.350
or 35 years later that I would end up. buying

01:28:10.350 --> 01:28:12.750
the house from the movie and that Billy Idol

01:28:12.750 --> 01:28:15.750
would give me a check and the author would give

01:28:15.750 --> 01:28:19.329
me $35 ,000 and some stuff from her personal

01:28:19.329 --> 01:28:20.989
collection. And her friendship is what means

01:28:20.989 --> 01:28:24.550
more to me than all of that. And there's a hundred,

01:28:24.590 --> 01:28:27.010
if not a thousand stories, just like it from

01:28:27.010 --> 01:28:29.609
anonymous people that did even more miraculous

01:28:29.609 --> 01:28:33.130
stuff, but I'd be here all day. But the takeaway

01:28:33.130 --> 01:28:37.800
from all of this is, is that, you know, I saw

01:28:37.800 --> 01:28:40.140
an opportunity that maybe nobody else saw at

01:28:40.140 --> 01:28:43.140
the time. I felt very strongly about it, and

01:28:43.140 --> 01:28:45.159
I was willing to roll the dice because what did

01:28:45.159 --> 01:28:47.420
I have to lose at that point? It was already

01:28:47.420 --> 01:28:52.539
close to being out of money, but greater than

01:28:52.539 --> 01:28:55.039
being out of money would have been to save what

01:28:55.039 --> 01:28:56.800
little money I had and then watch that house

01:28:56.800 --> 01:28:59.279
get destroyed. And without a plan and without

01:28:59.279 --> 01:29:01.600
a budget. I was able to ask for help and the

01:29:01.600 --> 01:29:03.760
help showed up. And that's powerful stuff for

01:29:03.760 --> 01:29:05.560
me, man. I'm not going to say that that's going

01:29:05.560 --> 01:29:07.739
to happen in every project I do or any project

01:29:07.739 --> 01:29:10.979
that you may do or may never happen. But it has

01:29:10.979 --> 01:29:12.920
happened. And every time I share the story, people

01:29:12.920 --> 01:29:14.880
say, yeah, I've had a similar situation that

01:29:14.880 --> 01:29:17.439
happened. Or this is good information. Maybe

01:29:17.439 --> 01:29:19.539
it gives somebody the confidence to try something.

01:29:20.100 --> 01:29:21.979
Because, again, what's the worst that could happen?

01:29:22.220 --> 01:29:25.279
So I had a little less, you know, 20 grand less

01:29:25.279 --> 01:29:27.670
than I had when I started. which I can make that

01:29:27.670 --> 01:29:29.710
up somehow. Eventually it's not going to kill

01:29:29.710 --> 01:29:31.949
me. And I would have had a good lesson of, Hey

01:29:31.949 --> 01:29:33.689
man, next time you need this, that, and the third,

01:29:33.750 --> 01:29:36.989
but it worked out the way it worked out better

01:29:36.989 --> 01:29:39.090
than I could have ever imagined. And it's given

01:29:39.090 --> 01:29:41.930
me, it's fulfilled me in a way that the house

01:29:41.930 --> 01:29:44.789
of pain could have never done. And I'll end with

01:29:44.789 --> 01:29:49.890
this, you know, being sober. When you work a

01:29:49.890 --> 01:29:51.810
program, the 12 step program, the last three

01:29:51.810 --> 01:29:54.350
steps are about giving back. It's trust God,

01:29:54.489 --> 01:29:59.170
clean house. work with others. And I think that

01:29:59.170 --> 01:30:01.989
my higher power, who I choose to call God, understood

01:30:01.989 --> 01:30:03.829
that I wasn't going to do the kind of service

01:30:03.829 --> 01:30:07.149
that I equate service in being, but that I could

01:30:07.149 --> 01:30:10.310
be a very good service to the community at large

01:30:10.310 --> 01:30:13.270
here by doing the Outsiders House Museum and

01:30:13.270 --> 01:30:15.529
making sure that I spend every day making sure

01:30:15.529 --> 01:30:18.289
that that museum stays open, that it stays constantly

01:30:18.289 --> 01:30:22.069
promoted in the right way, and that I actively

01:30:22.069 --> 01:30:25.439
collect so that I can share a shared experience

01:30:25.439 --> 01:30:28.479
of her story, the story of Tulsa surrounding

01:30:28.479 --> 01:30:31.479
me and putting me up on high and helping me complete

01:30:31.479 --> 01:30:34.500
this. And what that looks like when you're sober,

01:30:34.680 --> 01:30:37.539
when you're passionate, and when you're humble

01:30:37.539 --> 01:30:40.680
to ask for help, great things can happen. At

01:30:40.680 --> 01:30:42.899
least for a guy like me who was suffering from

01:30:42.899 --> 01:30:46.359
alcoholism and drug addiction and a million other

01:30:46.359 --> 01:30:50.489
things. that it's pretty miraculous so I think

01:30:50.489 --> 01:30:52.810
it's a it's a for me it's a redemption story

01:30:52.810 --> 01:30:54.430
my own story is a redemption story and I think

01:30:54.430 --> 01:30:56.350
there's hope in my story when I talk to other

01:30:56.350 --> 01:30:59.210
people about it and they feel that and it inspires

01:30:59.210 --> 01:31:02.670
people to maybe do stuff similar or just a good

01:31:02.670 --> 01:31:04.649
takeaway of like you know everybody likes to

01:31:04.649 --> 01:31:06.869
see a feel -good story and this is the feel -good

01:31:06.869 --> 01:31:10.250
story of the last few years in Tulsa you know

01:31:10.250 --> 01:31:13.149
so it's been good I've been here for five years

01:31:13.149 --> 01:31:16.520
I'm never leaving And I feel like the smartest

01:31:16.520 --> 01:31:19.500
guy who ever left Los Angeles. And my biggest

01:31:19.500 --> 01:31:21.279
fear is coming here that you can stand still

01:31:21.279 --> 01:31:23.159
in Los Angeles and the world will come to you

01:31:23.159 --> 01:31:26.399
because we have such great circulation of people

01:31:26.399 --> 01:31:28.859
traveling to see Los Angeles. But ironically

01:31:28.859 --> 01:31:32.880
enough, every month, if not, you know, two or

01:31:32.880 --> 01:31:36.020
three, five people from my past or people that

01:31:36.020 --> 01:31:38.239
I always wanted to meet are passing through or

01:31:38.239 --> 01:31:42.140
working here. playing here or whatever. So every

01:31:42.140 --> 01:31:43.779
month I've got somebody, I got somebody right

01:31:43.779 --> 01:31:45.800
now from LA who's visiting for the first time,

01:31:45.800 --> 01:31:48.579
just based off of my photos who I knew. And I've

01:31:48.579 --> 01:31:51.119
been taking him around and I have a band. You

01:31:51.119 --> 01:31:53.199
may know, and they might, I think it's secret

01:31:53.199 --> 01:31:56.119
that they're here, but your podcast, the Dropkick

01:31:56.119 --> 01:31:58.020
Murphys are here recording at the church studios

01:31:58.020 --> 01:32:03.020
for a week. And I'm talking to Ken Casey. And

01:32:03.020 --> 01:32:04.640
I'm going to show him around and give him the

01:32:04.640 --> 01:32:06.619
tour. And every month it's something like that.

01:32:06.680 --> 01:32:08.479
Someone's playing Kane's Ballroom. Someone's

01:32:08.479 --> 01:32:11.300
playing the BOK Center. Someone's coming from

01:32:11.300 --> 01:32:13.140
East Coast to West Coast, driving through, and

01:32:13.140 --> 01:32:16.520
they want to see Tulsa. And so I've been blessed

01:32:16.520 --> 01:32:20.119
to have the people in my life coming through

01:32:20.119 --> 01:32:22.220
and all kinds of people that I never thought

01:32:22.220 --> 01:32:24.239
would make it to Tulsa coming through. And it's

01:32:24.239 --> 01:32:26.720
just been a, again, sometimes I got to pinch

01:32:26.720 --> 01:32:32.260
myself that this has all happened. It gets real

01:32:32.260 --> 01:32:33.880
because now I got to make sure not to fuck it

01:32:33.880 --> 01:32:39.039
all up. You know, the pressure's on. Well, I

01:32:39.039 --> 01:32:41.819
think that's such a powerful story to hear and

01:32:41.819 --> 01:32:44.479
especially powerful. Like a lot of people have

01:32:44.479 --> 01:32:47.739
kind of rebirth stories and they themselves are

01:32:47.739 --> 01:32:52.779
incredible. But not a lot of people have. I had

01:32:52.779 --> 01:32:55.539
achieved everything that you're told on television

01:32:55.539 --> 01:32:58.399
will make you happy. story a contrasting story

01:32:58.399 --> 01:33:01.380
i had the fame the cars the girls i had all this

01:33:01.380 --> 01:33:03.680
stuff i was adored i was on mtv when it played

01:33:03.680 --> 01:33:07.760
music for example a long time ago and then you

01:33:07.760 --> 01:33:10.779
have this and then what truly brought you happiness

01:33:10.779 --> 01:33:14.060
was and you touched on the word tribe finding

01:33:14.060 --> 01:33:17.539
that tribe finding that purpose seeing that community

01:33:17.539 --> 01:33:21.390
does exist and people do give a shit They just

01:33:21.390 --> 01:33:25.149
need to be led and be given a task. And that's

01:33:25.149 --> 01:33:26.989
what I've seen over and over again. The narrative

01:33:26.989 --> 01:33:29.630
of people are horrible. Yes, there are some shitbags

01:33:29.630 --> 01:33:31.689
in the world. There's no question. But I think

01:33:31.689 --> 01:33:34.630
ultimately people are good. But right now, I

01:33:34.630 --> 01:33:37.409
mean, without getting political, there's very

01:33:37.409 --> 01:33:39.510
little leadership from left, right, whatever.

01:33:39.770 --> 01:33:42.409
These people are not our role models by any means.

01:33:43.789 --> 01:33:45.890
especially in the community when in your own

01:33:45.890 --> 01:33:48.510
town you could hands you know you can literally

01:33:48.510 --> 01:33:51.930
touch a project that you see then makes a difference

01:33:51.930 --> 01:33:55.109
that not only is bonding but i think it's healing

01:33:55.109 --> 01:33:56.869
and over and over again the people that come

01:33:56.869 --> 01:33:59.689
out of whatever dark place they were in that

01:33:59.689 --> 01:34:02.369
one of the most healing elements is altruism

01:34:02.369 --> 01:34:04.729
is being able to give back and that's the true

01:34:04.729 --> 01:34:06.869
purpose i think that ultimately heals so many

01:34:06.869 --> 01:34:09.560
people that were in pain You're absolutely right.

01:34:09.640 --> 01:34:11.079
And you know what? It's like doing a concert.

01:34:11.159 --> 01:34:13.319
If you're at a show and the crowd's all got their

01:34:13.319 --> 01:34:14.979
iPhones in your face and they're standing still,

01:34:15.119 --> 01:34:18.140
it's a tough hour and change, right? But if the

01:34:18.140 --> 01:34:19.800
crowd is wilding out and they're getting into

01:34:19.800 --> 01:34:22.979
it, it's reciprocal energy. So what I give at

01:34:22.979 --> 01:34:27.100
the house has been given back to me in double,

01:34:27.220 --> 01:34:29.819
triple, whatever. And then the word that you

01:34:29.819 --> 01:34:31.600
also touched on, which is super important to

01:34:31.600 --> 01:34:33.340
me, and I realized it when I had been here for

01:34:33.340 --> 01:34:35.720
a couple of years, I go, I finally have a purpose,

01:34:35.819 --> 01:34:39.869
like a true purpose. I didn't have a purpose.

01:34:40.170 --> 01:34:41.949
My purpose had been served the second Eric said

01:34:41.949 --> 01:34:43.649
I'm going to Everlast was like, let's make the

01:34:43.649 --> 01:34:46.329
band. He took the wheel from there. I had done

01:34:46.329 --> 01:34:50.590
the logo, the style of it, the name of it was

01:34:50.590 --> 01:34:53.189
all mine and the Irish centric shit was who I

01:34:53.189 --> 01:34:56.409
was. But after that, it was like I was in a car

01:34:56.409 --> 01:34:58.189
while he was driving and when he wanted to stop

01:34:58.189 --> 01:35:00.789
and pull over. So my purpose was just to do what

01:35:00.789 --> 01:35:03.430
he said to keep this thing going. And when it

01:35:03.430 --> 01:35:05.710
was all said and done, I couldn't recreate the

01:35:05.710 --> 01:35:09.060
magic without him. And I was left really on the

01:35:09.060 --> 01:35:11.119
side of the road, not knowing what to do. And

01:35:11.119 --> 01:35:15.180
that's a real powerless, like sad, like state

01:35:15.180 --> 01:35:20.439
of mind to be in where you feel like. You know,

01:35:20.439 --> 01:35:23.560
for the rest of my life and everybody expects

01:35:23.560 --> 01:35:25.739
me to go make a rap record or whatever, whatever.

01:35:26.119 --> 01:35:28.640
So it took me a long time to come out the other

01:35:28.640 --> 01:35:31.020
side of that to have a real purpose. And my purpose

01:35:31.020 --> 01:35:34.260
is this is like I said, that every day that the

01:35:34.260 --> 01:35:37.859
house is not open. is a in my book a day that

01:35:37.859 --> 01:35:41.859
could be better because we we do friday saturday

01:35:41.859 --> 01:35:44.279
and sunday we're open to the public we do monday

01:35:44.279 --> 01:35:46.239
through thursday for private tours or school

01:35:46.239 --> 01:35:48.800
tours but i also do a 12 -step meeting at the

01:35:48.800 --> 01:35:53.079
house uh we do events at the house and i just

01:35:53.079 --> 01:35:55.399
got an order today somebody wants to do a wedding

01:35:55.399 --> 01:35:57.119
at the house which is great i'm looking forward

01:35:57.119 --> 01:36:01.020
to but i want to use i use the the house as a

01:36:01.020 --> 01:36:03.800
community property and i feel like the many events

01:36:03.800 --> 01:36:07.149
we can put there the better. And it gives me

01:36:07.149 --> 01:36:08.989
a purpose. Like I said, my purpose is to make

01:36:08.989 --> 01:36:12.489
sure that that is maintained and in tip -top

01:36:12.489 --> 01:36:16.550
shape and that I constantly am on the lookout

01:36:16.550 --> 01:36:20.170
for new and exciting items that may pop up on

01:36:20.170 --> 01:36:22.770
the market or discover other ways to, you know,

01:36:22.770 --> 01:36:27.829
dig out collections. And yeah, I couldn't have

01:36:27.829 --> 01:36:30.050
planned it better. And I'm glad it just happened

01:36:30.050 --> 01:36:34.149
the way it was supposed to happen for me. And

01:36:34.149 --> 01:36:37.689
yeah, I'm the most, I stay in gratitude every

01:36:37.689 --> 01:36:40.189
day. There's no bad days. There's just days that

01:36:40.189 --> 01:36:42.090
I could have done something a little bit better

01:36:42.090 --> 01:36:43.369
or could have just went a little bit better.

01:36:43.649 --> 01:36:47.090
But I feel good, like I said, to be on the other

01:36:47.090 --> 01:36:49.090
side of this thing and to finally have found

01:36:49.090 --> 01:36:52.590
my purpose, my true purpose, which is this. Well,

01:36:52.689 --> 01:36:54.130
it's funny as well because I remember watching

01:36:54.130 --> 01:36:57.560
the film. When I was a kid, and I'm 48 now, I

01:36:57.560 --> 01:37:00.020
just had to help my son through his English project

01:37:00.020 --> 01:37:02.380
about a year ago now. Well, he worked through

01:37:02.380 --> 01:37:04.699
the book. Now, the way they analyzed it, I was

01:37:04.699 --> 01:37:07.819
completely useless to him. Some of the questions

01:37:07.819 --> 01:37:09.579
that they were breaking down. But, you know,

01:37:09.579 --> 01:37:11.880
so I've had that multi -generational kind of

01:37:11.880 --> 01:37:14.640
view with the story. Just a complete tangent

01:37:14.640 --> 01:37:18.880
for a moment. There's a place, a concert, Welcome

01:37:18.880 --> 01:37:20.479
to Rockville, every year. Cypress Hills actually

01:37:20.479 --> 01:37:22.789
played a couple of times. I've seen them. The

01:37:22.789 --> 01:37:25.149
Foo Fighters, tragically, Taylor was there. This

01:37:25.149 --> 01:37:27.270
was a couple of years ago now. They did a set

01:37:27.270 --> 01:37:30.520
with Billy Idol. One of the best fucking concerts

01:37:30.520 --> 01:37:32.840
I've ever seen in my entire life. Cause, cause

01:37:32.840 --> 01:37:34.899
Billy came on, John Travolta was backstage. He

01:37:34.899 --> 01:37:37.460
came on to be just, just waved, but he's been

01:37:37.460 --> 01:37:41.319
on the show too. But the, yes, yeah, he came

01:37:41.319 --> 01:37:44.619
on. He's local. He lives here in Ocala. So yeah,

01:37:44.699 --> 01:37:46.760
he's, you know, kind of, kind of like you are

01:37:46.760 --> 01:37:50.199
in Tulsa as far as being invested in the community

01:37:50.199 --> 01:37:51.720
you live in, rather than just kind of hiding

01:37:51.720 --> 01:37:54.840
in a house. He's, he's very much so. I love everything

01:37:54.840 --> 01:37:58.869
about John Travolta as a kid. He was the Brooklyn

01:37:58.869 --> 01:38:02.670
archetypal character of like between Vinnie Bob

01:38:02.670 --> 01:38:08.310
Marino and what's his name in Saturday Night

01:38:08.310 --> 01:38:11.350
Fever, Monero, Tony Monero. I mean, he was like

01:38:11.350 --> 01:38:14.729
a god amongst men. As a kid, I saw that movie.

01:38:14.850 --> 01:38:16.529
My mother took me to it. And other people in

01:38:16.529 --> 01:38:17.909
the neighborhood cursed my mother for bringing

01:38:17.909 --> 01:38:19.909
a kid at 12 years old or 10 years old to see

01:38:19.909 --> 01:38:22.510
the movie. But she loved that. that she's you

01:38:22.510 --> 01:38:24.090
know she's the dance of brooklyn so that was

01:38:24.090 --> 01:38:26.789
her era that they're portraying but yeah i didn't

01:38:26.789 --> 01:38:30.789
know that that's listen i think if i'm not mistaken

01:38:30.789 --> 01:38:34.489
taylor died of an overdose or drug overdose i

01:38:34.489 --> 01:38:36.369
believe so yeah first they were talking about

01:38:36.369 --> 01:38:38.510
um i think you know they had chest pain but i

01:38:38.510 --> 01:38:40.489
think from what i understood what i read the

01:38:40.489 --> 01:38:42.729
toxicology there was a whole cocktail and you

01:38:42.729 --> 01:38:44.649
know and i know even if you had chest pain it

01:38:44.649 --> 01:38:47.590
was probably from you know what's in your body

01:38:47.590 --> 01:38:51.260
yeah of course and you know what that It's so

01:38:51.260 --> 01:38:54.340
super unfortunate. I can share. We were doing

01:38:54.340 --> 01:38:58.819
a festival. It had to be the late 90s with House

01:38:58.819 --> 01:39:02.180
of Pain. And I don't remember where it was, but

01:39:02.180 --> 01:39:07.600
I was standing on stage after our set to see

01:39:07.600 --> 01:39:11.180
Alanis Morissette. And she was all the rage.

01:39:11.380 --> 01:39:13.079
So whatever year that, you know, You Oughta Know

01:39:13.079 --> 01:39:16.300
song came out, that was the year. Maybe 95, 94,

01:39:16.579 --> 01:39:18.800
I don't know. And I was, you know, because I

01:39:18.800 --> 01:39:20.739
had my laminate and we were probably coming on

01:39:20.739 --> 01:39:23.300
after, I don't remember. But I was standing there

01:39:23.300 --> 01:39:27.279
and it didn't take 30 seconds for me to go, who

01:39:27.279 --> 01:39:30.130
cares about Alana Morissette? who the fuck is

01:39:30.130 --> 01:39:32.050
this drummer and where's this guy coming from

01:39:32.050 --> 01:39:34.689
so that's where he started originally playing

01:39:34.689 --> 01:39:37.350
drums for her and he had fans on him and his

01:39:37.350 --> 01:39:39.050
hair was flailing like he's riding a motorcycle

01:39:39.050 --> 01:39:41.829
and he was just like he was killing it and i'm

01:39:41.829 --> 01:39:45.529
a super fan of drumming if if i could do my childhood

01:39:45.529 --> 01:39:47.569
over again i begged my mother for a drum set

01:39:47.569 --> 01:39:50.449
my cousin had a drum set i was obsessed with

01:39:50.449 --> 01:39:52.649
ace freely and peter crisp but i always wanted

01:39:52.649 --> 01:39:56.289
to be a drummer and so anytime i see a band if

01:39:56.289 --> 01:40:00.590
the drummer ain't the shit i'm out and then he

01:40:00.590 --> 01:40:02.390
joined the food fighters which was great but

01:40:02.390 --> 01:40:05.470
i mean that's another you know unfortunate like

01:40:05.470 --> 01:40:09.390
he had everything he had everything and addiction

01:40:09.390 --> 01:40:12.130
is a tricky bitch man i've watched people with

01:40:12.130 --> 01:40:15.529
20 something years relapse uh philip seymour

01:40:15.529 --> 01:40:18.189
hoffman i mean dude was the staple in the community

01:40:18.189 --> 01:40:21.210
doing all the right things until you know and

01:40:21.210 --> 01:40:24.649
i that's why i don't that's why i don't fuck

01:40:24.649 --> 01:40:27.100
around i'm sure he didn't either that's why All

01:40:27.100 --> 01:40:29.939
I'm guaranteed is today. You know what? And that's

01:40:29.939 --> 01:40:32.760
the one day at a time concept. Yesterday is history.

01:40:32.979 --> 01:40:34.939
Tomorrow is a mystery. And I love to fuck with

01:40:34.939 --> 01:40:37.140
both. Oh, I'm not going to get all the things

01:40:37.140 --> 01:40:38.979
I need tomorrow. Or shit, if I just would have

01:40:38.979 --> 01:40:40.920
went left yesterday, I would have ended up where

01:40:40.920 --> 01:40:43.539
I needed to be. I get so caught up in the before

01:40:43.539 --> 01:40:46.739
and afters that I miss the beauty of today. And

01:40:46.739 --> 01:40:49.319
all we have right now is today. Today I'm sober.

01:40:49.699 --> 01:40:51.399
Today I have enough money to get through the

01:40:51.399 --> 01:40:54.220
day. I have a beautiful little dog in my lap.

01:40:54.399 --> 01:40:57.489
I have a refrigerator full of. food i got coffee

01:40:57.489 --> 01:40:59.010
at the red i mean i have so many things to be

01:40:59.010 --> 01:41:04.050
grateful hot shower good views really no complaints

01:41:04.050 --> 01:41:06.630
i can find a lot of stuff to complain about the

01:41:06.630 --> 01:41:10.789
the tax rate the gas prices the everything uh

01:41:10.789 --> 01:41:14.050
but so what everybody has to deal with that shit

01:41:14.050 --> 01:41:17.569
i i i i may sound like a you know i don't know

01:41:17.569 --> 01:41:19.770
what i sound like but it's true man it's the

01:41:19.770 --> 01:41:22.859
simple things now that i used to take for granted

01:41:22.859 --> 01:41:25.600
that are everything to me and i have really no

01:41:25.600 --> 01:41:27.520
complaints other than that it's up to me to go

01:41:27.520 --> 01:41:30.579
out and and you know do whatever i want to do

01:41:30.579 --> 01:41:33.680
and and and and build it into something that

01:41:33.680 --> 01:41:36.380
i want to see it to you know if that makes sense

01:41:36.380 --> 01:41:40.359
you know yeah absolutely though it does now i

01:41:40.359 --> 01:41:42.140
want to ask you one question and go to some closing

01:41:42.140 --> 01:41:44.350
questions so i can let you go but just one kind

01:41:44.350 --> 01:41:46.390
of interesting again going going back on the

01:41:46.390 --> 01:41:49.350
instagram a little bit i saw that one of the

01:41:49.350 --> 01:41:50.930
people that you had visit the house was matt

01:41:50.930 --> 01:41:53.189
dylan obviously someone that you you know related

01:41:53.189 --> 01:41:55.529
to when you were watching the film you know 40

01:41:55.529 --> 01:41:59.149
years prior so what was that like seeing you

01:41:59.149 --> 01:42:01.829
know someone who you had basically been moved

01:42:01.829 --> 01:42:03.810
by as in his performance and then what was his

01:42:03.810 --> 01:42:06.689
perception or experience of going back into the

01:42:06.689 --> 01:42:08.949
house that he was acting in all those years ago

01:42:08.949 --> 01:42:12.760
right so i mean I've said it a million times

01:42:12.760 --> 01:42:14.720
in every interview I think that they've asked.

01:42:14.899 --> 01:42:17.779
I definitely want to be Matt Dillon so bad it

01:42:17.779 --> 01:42:21.420
hurt. That character, Dallas Winston, is who

01:42:21.420 --> 01:42:25.640
I try to emulate his toughness. And between him

01:42:25.640 --> 01:42:28.920
and Ralph Macho's character, Johnny Cade, is

01:42:28.920 --> 01:42:31.840
where the center would probably be most accurate.

01:42:32.279 --> 01:42:34.739
I can relate to Johnny's pain and his feeling

01:42:34.739 --> 01:42:40.399
vulnerable and emotional about it. smart enough

01:42:40.399 --> 01:42:42.539
to hide it well like Dally did and tough enough

01:42:42.539 --> 01:42:46.739
to, you know, to do something about it. I'd always

01:42:46.739 --> 01:42:49.979
hoped that he would come. Early on when I first

01:42:49.979 --> 01:42:51.659
bought the house, it was kind of a secret. And

01:42:51.659 --> 01:42:53.840
all of a sudden I get a, because I have a blue

01:42:53.840 --> 01:42:56.159
check on Instagram, when somebody else with a

01:42:56.159 --> 01:42:58.239
blue check follows, it notifies you. Same with

01:42:58.239 --> 01:43:00.399
Twitter. And all of a sudden it says, boom, boom,

01:43:00.539 --> 01:43:02.359
like, whoa. It's like Matt Dillon's following

01:43:02.359 --> 01:43:04.600
you. I'm like, what? I thought it can't be real,

01:43:04.619 --> 01:43:06.560
right? But he had a blue check. And then all

01:43:06.560 --> 01:43:08.539
of a sudden I get this text from him. He says,

01:43:08.640 --> 01:43:10.479
listen, I heard you bought the house. Good, good

01:43:10.479 --> 01:43:12.979
shit. Do you ever want to, if you, Susie's still

01:43:12.979 --> 01:43:14.579
in Tulsa. And if you ever want to talk to her,

01:43:14.619 --> 01:43:16.220
let me know. I can put you in contact. I said,

01:43:16.260 --> 01:43:18.699
brother, you have no idea how much this means

01:43:18.699 --> 01:43:21.439
to me. I said, I'm in touch with Susie actually.

01:43:21.600 --> 01:43:24.560
And I said, and he said, uh in the text he said

01:43:24.560 --> 01:43:25.899
if there's anything you ever need i said hey

01:43:25.899 --> 01:43:27.939
first thing i want to know is uh do you still

01:43:27.939 --> 01:43:30.500
have the the the saint christopher medallion

01:43:30.500 --> 01:43:32.979
and the and the and the skull ring and he's like

01:43:32.979 --> 01:43:35.319
oh shit man that's been forever i don't know

01:43:35.319 --> 01:43:37.840
where those are but uh if i ever find them i'll

01:43:37.840 --> 01:43:39.300
let you know and i said look we're going to do

01:43:39.300 --> 01:43:41.140
a fundraiser i'm going to keep you abreast of

01:43:41.140 --> 01:43:43.500
all of the shit we do i never want to lean on

01:43:43.500 --> 01:43:46.880
you too hard so if i do Please forgive me. But

01:43:46.880 --> 01:43:48.760
I said, you know, you have a standing invitation

01:43:48.760 --> 01:43:51.439
to everything we do. And that was five years

01:43:51.439 --> 01:43:53.659
ago. We've done a few events. I've invited him.

01:43:54.500 --> 01:43:56.739
He replied back, hey, I'm on a movie right now

01:43:56.739 --> 01:43:59.060
out in, he didn't want to call it the house that

01:43:59.060 --> 01:44:00.939
Jack built. I think he was in Sweden or something

01:44:00.939 --> 01:44:03.460
at the time. The following year, he was like,

01:44:03.479 --> 01:44:05.979
it's just, I'm in Italy. He was always, it was

01:44:05.979 --> 01:44:08.380
just the timing was never right. And then I would

01:44:08.380 --> 01:44:09.859
send him some stuff and he just didn't respond,

01:44:10.039 --> 01:44:11.760
which was like, all right, you know, busy guy,

01:44:11.800 --> 01:44:15.060
get it. And then randomly. Somebody posted that

01:44:15.060 --> 01:44:17.039
he was going to do a Q &A in Oklahoma City for

01:44:17.039 --> 01:44:19.500
some art show, hoping that he would see the museum.

01:44:19.739 --> 01:44:22.600
And it wasn't anybody in my camp. She's a fan

01:44:22.600 --> 01:44:26.079
of the Outsiders and well -known amongst Outsiders

01:44:26.079 --> 01:44:28.720
fans. But I didn't get too excited because, again,

01:44:28.779 --> 01:44:31.819
the higher the expectations, the lower the serenity.

01:44:32.000 --> 01:44:34.680
And I didn't want to set myself up for disappointment.

01:44:35.039 --> 01:44:37.279
And when I first bought the house, man, there

01:44:37.279 --> 01:44:38.739
was a lot of questions. Like, why doesn't Tom

01:44:38.739 --> 01:44:40.239
Cruise just give you a million dollars to do

01:44:40.239 --> 01:44:43.430
this? And just, you know, I'm like. That's not

01:44:43.430 --> 01:44:46.310
how life works. And if I had those expectations

01:44:46.310 --> 01:44:48.010
and none of the stars showed up from the movie,

01:44:48.109 --> 01:44:50.949
this house still had to be a sight to behold,

01:44:51.229 --> 01:44:53.409
regardless of their involvement. Otherwise, what

01:44:53.409 --> 01:44:55.210
am I building? I'm building another trap like

01:44:55.210 --> 01:44:57.729
House of Pain, where if Everlast leaves, we have

01:44:57.729 --> 01:45:00.329
an empty shell of a car that has no engine, right?

01:45:00.510 --> 01:45:03.189
So I didn't want to build a museum that was contingent

01:45:03.189 --> 01:45:05.949
on celebrities from the movie showing up all

01:45:05.949 --> 01:45:08.310
the time to make you want to come see it. So

01:45:08.310 --> 01:45:12.090
that was already a given. So the following day.

01:45:12.489 --> 01:45:14.770
I get a text from Estee Hinton. She said, listen,

01:45:14.989 --> 01:45:18.670
I'm so happy I could cry. Matt's coming, and

01:45:18.670 --> 01:45:20.069
he's going to take me to lunch, and then he wants

01:45:20.069 --> 01:45:22.329
to see the house. I was like, fantastic. She

01:45:22.329 --> 01:45:23.810
said, I hope you're in town. I said, oh, I'm

01:45:23.810 --> 01:45:25.949
in town. I'll be there. And then I looked at

01:45:25.949 --> 01:45:27.510
my Instagram. He's like, hey, brother, I'm in

01:45:27.510 --> 01:45:29.350
Oklahoma City. I'm coming to Tulsa tomorrow.

01:45:29.470 --> 01:45:31.109
I'd love to see the house. I said, yep, I just

01:45:31.109 --> 01:45:32.670
talked to Suzy. I'll be there with bells on.

01:45:32.850 --> 01:45:35.909
So I got there in the morning at 9 a .m., and

01:45:35.909 --> 01:45:37.729
we waited. He finally showed up at 4 o 'clock.

01:45:38.250 --> 01:45:42.289
He came in. gracious to all of us. He said, Danny,

01:45:42.350 --> 01:45:43.850
I got to be honest with you. I'd never been in

01:45:43.850 --> 01:45:46.510
the house. So I don't have any, I don't have

01:45:46.510 --> 01:45:48.630
any memories of being in the house. Cause I don't

01:45:48.630 --> 01:45:50.810
think I was ever in the house. I was, my scene

01:45:50.810 --> 01:45:53.069
was on the fence in front of the house. My scene

01:45:53.069 --> 01:45:54.850
was on the lawn on the side of the house and

01:45:54.850 --> 01:45:57.090
then in back of the house. So I don't know if

01:45:57.090 --> 01:45:59.329
he knew what to expect, but he walked in and

01:45:59.329 --> 01:46:01.829
he was like, Oh shit. You know? And then, you

01:46:01.829 --> 01:46:03.449
know, we just kind of watched him and did his

01:46:03.449 --> 01:46:06.630
thing. I knew he was excited and was feeling

01:46:06.630 --> 01:46:08.510
it once he pulled out his cell phone and started

01:46:08.510 --> 01:46:12.109
to take photos of it, that he was like, oh, shit.

01:46:12.229 --> 01:46:14.949
I think I'm pretty sure it exceeded his expectations.

01:46:14.989 --> 01:46:18.949
And I've done my best to pack that thing chock

01:46:18.949 --> 01:46:21.470
full of just everything you could imagine that

01:46:21.470 --> 01:46:26.489
with the outsiders from day one till now. There's

01:46:26.489 --> 01:46:28.750
a lot to chew on in there. And by the time we

01:46:28.750 --> 01:46:30.289
got him out of the house and into the gift store

01:46:30.289 --> 01:46:32.130
behind it, and then he realized that his leather

01:46:32.130 --> 01:46:35.840
jacket. was back there he was super excited and

01:46:35.840 --> 01:46:38.079
he left with the big ass gift bag so that's also

01:46:38.079 --> 01:46:40.140
good too because some people don't want no they're

01:46:40.140 --> 01:46:41.779
like it was cool but i don't need anything you

01:46:41.779 --> 01:46:44.039
know which i understand i don't take stuff from

01:46:44.039 --> 01:46:46.079
people if i'm not going to wear it whatever whatever

01:46:46.079 --> 01:46:49.020
but he was like he had the beanies on and give

01:46:49.020 --> 01:46:51.180
a t -shirt you get one from his cousin get one

01:46:51.180 --> 01:46:53.619
from his older brother whatever whatever made

01:46:53.619 --> 01:46:56.199
me feel good to that he didn't leave empty -handed

01:46:56.199 --> 01:46:59.180
and then uh yeah i had a photographer there and

01:46:59.180 --> 01:47:01.630
i told him listen this guy's sitting in his car

01:47:01.630 --> 01:47:03.390
but i'll send him home if you feel uncomfortable

01:47:03.390 --> 01:47:06.250
or this is not cool he said you know if he's

01:47:06.250 --> 01:47:07.729
good enough for you he's good enough for me and

01:47:07.729 --> 01:47:11.390
so i brought my my buddy uh he documented it

01:47:11.390 --> 01:47:13.529
all and then i was able to tell the news when

01:47:13.529 --> 01:47:15.109
he left he didn't say anything about the news

01:47:15.109 --> 01:47:16.409
so i didn't want to have them waiting in the

01:47:16.409 --> 01:47:19.109
bushes either but they got good they got good

01:47:19.109 --> 01:47:21.710
photos from us and uh you know it was fantastic

01:47:21.710 --> 01:47:24.310
that he came back and that he enjoyed it that

01:47:24.310 --> 01:47:27.010
being said will he be back next week no Will

01:47:27.010 --> 01:47:28.930
he be back in three weeks? We don't know. If

01:47:28.930 --> 01:47:31.109
we can get him to come back for an event, I'd

01:47:31.109 --> 01:47:33.050
love to do something where we can watch the movie,

01:47:33.130 --> 01:47:35.810
he can do a Q &A with me, and we could raise

01:47:35.810 --> 01:47:38.890
money and pay him a nice little chunk of change

01:47:38.890 --> 01:47:42.090
and make a little money for the museum. All in

01:47:42.090 --> 01:47:44.149
due time, we'll know. But at the end of the day,

01:47:44.210 --> 01:47:47.109
the museum, even if nobody ever showed up celebrity

01:47:47.109 --> 01:47:50.770
-wise, it's a sight to behold. That being said,

01:47:50.890 --> 01:47:54.529
almost every week we get a celebrity. You know,

01:47:54.529 --> 01:48:00.529
between Leonardo DiCaprio, the Green Day, all

01:48:00.529 --> 01:48:03.210
the other cast from Killing on the Flower Moons.

01:48:03.250 --> 01:48:04.989
I've had every band under the sun that's come

01:48:04.989 --> 01:48:07.029
through Tulsa just about. Today I was supposed

01:48:07.029 --> 01:48:08.609
to meet the Dropkicks, but he had to run to the

01:48:08.609 --> 01:48:11.229
studio quicker. I had Al Barr from the Dropkick

01:48:11.229 --> 01:48:13.229
Murphys the last time they were on tour. He wore

01:48:13.229 --> 01:48:15.590
the shirt on a live event that they did during

01:48:15.590 --> 01:48:17.810
COVID at a boxing match, singing their song.

01:48:18.789 --> 01:48:21.250
It's everybody in our age group, they grew up

01:48:21.250 --> 01:48:24.390
loving this. I guess I can end with this. When

01:48:24.390 --> 01:48:26.390
I made this thing, I had no real plan of what

01:48:26.390 --> 01:48:28.289
it was going to be or how it was going to get

01:48:28.289 --> 01:48:30.510
done. But I thought I was building a museum for

01:48:30.510 --> 01:48:32.590
people like me and you, some aging greasers who

01:48:32.590 --> 01:48:35.270
had an affinity for tough guys, leather jackets

01:48:35.270 --> 01:48:37.850
and switchblades. What ended up happening is

01:48:37.850 --> 01:48:39.729
I built a family museum. And the driving force

01:48:39.729 --> 01:48:42.729
behind it is usually the seventh grade students

01:48:42.729 --> 01:48:44.890
that have just finished reading the book or about

01:48:44.890 --> 01:48:46.569
to read the book, just like their older brother

01:48:46.569 --> 01:48:48.750
and sister did, just like their parents did.

01:48:48.930 --> 01:48:50.670
And a lot of them, if they're local, they remember

01:48:50.670 --> 01:48:53.310
when... Coppola came here and they filmed both

01:48:53.310 --> 01:48:56.250
The Outsiders, then Rumblefish. It's a very important

01:48:56.250 --> 01:48:58.770
part of their shared collective memory and history.

01:48:59.229 --> 01:49:01.970
But we get people from all over the U .S., mainly

01:49:01.970 --> 01:49:04.649
the surrounding states. They come from Arizona,

01:49:04.909 --> 01:49:08.449
New Mexico, Texas, Kansas, Missouri. I'm like,

01:49:08.510 --> 01:49:10.930
you just drove 14 hours? They're like, hell yeah,

01:49:10.989 --> 01:49:13.010
we did. I said, just to see the museum? Or you

01:49:13.010 --> 01:49:14.869
come for another? No, just to see the museum.

01:49:15.090 --> 01:49:18.250
And so the fan base every year is producing new

01:49:18.250 --> 01:49:20.369
crop of fans because the book is required reading.

01:49:21.129 --> 01:49:23.970
globally it's not even a local thing it's it's

01:49:23.970 --> 01:49:26.010
there's copies that book has been printed in

01:49:26.010 --> 01:49:29.510
over 33 languages man so it's it's this book

01:49:29.510 --> 01:49:32.390
is incredible uh it's important to Tulsa it's

01:49:32.390 --> 01:49:34.390
important to Tulsa's history but it's important

01:49:34.390 --> 01:49:37.829
to the it's the first time that book is that

01:49:37.829 --> 01:49:43.810
we can argue and there's no real answer uh what

01:49:43.810 --> 01:49:46.430
what first rapper started hip -hop like what

01:49:46.430 --> 01:49:48.430
what's the first record that started that or

01:49:48.430 --> 01:49:52.149
let's do rock what's the first rock record You're

01:49:52.149 --> 01:49:54.310
going to say a blues record or maybe this one.

01:49:54.710 --> 01:49:57.750
There's no true answer. If I ask you, what is

01:49:57.750 --> 01:50:00.390
the number one category in book sales to date?

01:50:00.470 --> 01:50:02.930
It's young adult literature. Who's the first

01:50:02.930 --> 01:50:05.970
person to start young adult literature? I got

01:50:05.970 --> 01:50:08.369
the answer. It's S .E. Hinton with The Outsiders.

01:50:08.390 --> 01:50:11.390
This is the first time in literary history that

01:50:11.390 --> 01:50:16.210
a 15 and a half year old, a teen, wrote about

01:50:16.210 --> 01:50:19.920
being a teen. for teens. Prior to that, every

01:50:19.920 --> 01:50:22.399
book about being a teen was written from people

01:50:22.399 --> 01:50:26.279
our age, reflecting back on that era. She wrote

01:50:26.279 --> 01:50:28.920
it in that era, about that era, for her era.

01:50:29.100 --> 01:50:31.800
And that creates the young adult book category.

01:50:32.039 --> 01:50:34.859
It's not some little poobah category. It is the

01:50:34.859 --> 01:50:36.939
number one category in book sales of all time.

01:50:37.400 --> 01:50:40.140
And we know where that started in Tulsa, Oklahoma,

01:50:40.279 --> 01:50:42.859
from a student named Susan Eloise Tinton, who

01:50:42.859 --> 01:50:44.640
they asked her to change her name to something

01:50:44.640 --> 01:50:46.680
more ambiguous that guys didn't know it was a

01:50:46.680 --> 01:50:48.079
girl writing it because we wouldn't have read

01:50:48.079 --> 01:50:51.859
it probably at 15 had we known. And there's just

01:50:51.859 --> 01:50:53.760
so many little things to chew on with this thing.

01:50:53.880 --> 01:50:58.260
But I never get tired of telling it. It never

01:50:58.260 --> 01:51:00.659
gets old to me. The fact that Coppola was involved,

01:51:00.880 --> 01:51:03.340
the fact that the librarian who had 100 of her

01:51:03.340 --> 01:51:06.850
students write to Coppola in 81 or 82. insisting

01:51:06.850 --> 01:51:08.829
that he looks at this and turns it into a movie,

01:51:08.890 --> 01:51:11.289
which he did just that. There's just so much.

01:51:11.289 --> 01:51:13.710
The stars that got launched out of this, the

01:51:13.710 --> 01:51:15.529
careers that came out of this with the Brat Pack,

01:51:15.729 --> 01:51:20.529
from Swayze to Dylan to Macchio to Cruise, the

01:51:20.529 --> 01:51:24.510
smallest part becomes the biggest actor on the

01:51:24.510 --> 01:51:26.609
planet. There's just so much to love. And that

01:51:26.609 --> 01:51:28.890
little girl, 15 and a half years old, was the

01:51:28.890 --> 01:51:31.439
impetus. for all of this by writing her book.

01:51:31.680 --> 01:51:35.819
And it's a time -honored classic. To be a speckle

01:51:35.819 --> 01:51:39.640
of dust in this whole legacy is something I just

01:51:39.640 --> 01:51:42.060
can't overstate to you how important it is to

01:51:42.060 --> 01:51:43.939
me. And this is why I'm on my best behavior.

01:51:44.880 --> 01:51:47.859
It's another reason. It's just to stay right

01:51:47.859 --> 01:51:51.300
-sized and stay accountable. Because I'm one

01:51:51.300 --> 01:51:54.960
altercation on the streets from ruining, you

01:51:54.960 --> 01:51:57.739
know, there's things that I can do. The old Danny

01:51:57.739 --> 01:52:01.380
can show up. If I'm having a bad day and I'm

01:52:01.380 --> 01:52:04.180
frustrated or I haven't eaten or my sugar level

01:52:04.180 --> 01:52:08.359
drops, who knows? And so it's another thing that

01:52:08.359 --> 01:52:10.619
is super precious to me. And I hope to never

01:52:10.619 --> 01:52:13.539
do anything to disgrace the author, the legacy.

01:52:14.329 --> 01:52:16.930
anything and i do my best to just everything

01:52:16.930 --> 01:52:19.350
is above board everything is transparent and

01:52:19.350 --> 01:52:21.109
everything is from the heart man i don't even

01:52:21.109 --> 01:52:24.430
have to think about it i just do and say my story

01:52:24.430 --> 01:52:26.770
my truth how this all happened and how important

01:52:26.770 --> 01:52:28.750
in it and everything else is in god's hands so

01:52:28.750 --> 01:52:32.130
well i mean i can hear the passion you know it's

01:52:32.130 --> 01:52:34.270
incredible and like you said the inception of

01:52:34.270 --> 01:52:36.750
the story and even even the lens that she had

01:52:36.750 --> 01:52:39.270
as a 15 year old girl right and you know what

01:52:39.270 --> 01:52:42.420
some would argue more of a masculine perspective

01:52:42.420 --> 01:52:44.720
story absolutely you know I mean it's amazing

01:52:44.720 --> 01:52:46.659
and then absolutely I mean you look at all the

01:52:46.659 --> 01:52:49.500
faces on the original cast you know oh my god

01:52:49.500 --> 01:52:54.319
like all of them Emilio Estevez Diane Lane Leif

01:52:54.319 --> 01:52:56.020
Garrett he was actually the biggest star at the

01:52:56.020 --> 01:52:58.180
time because he was from the 70s where he was

01:52:58.180 --> 01:53:00.199
a rollover from that era so I was like wait a

01:53:00.199 --> 01:53:02.520
minute I already know who that guy is but I didn't

01:53:02.520 --> 01:53:04.020
really know I didn't have too much frame of reference

01:53:04.020 --> 01:53:06.399
for the rest of them until I did you know yeah

01:53:06.399 --> 01:53:10.039
incredible well Before I get to a couple of closing

01:53:10.039 --> 01:53:12.439
questions, for people listening, where's the

01:53:12.439 --> 01:53:14.460
best place to find out about the museum, where

01:53:14.460 --> 01:53:16.439
they can donate, and then what about social media

01:53:16.439 --> 01:53:19.220
handles as well? Yeah, I mean, just The Outsiders

01:53:19.220 --> 01:53:20.960
House. Any Google search will bring up all of

01:53:20.960 --> 01:53:23.100
the links. TheOutsidersHouse .com, The Outsiders

01:53:23.100 --> 01:53:25.279
House Facebook, The Outsiders House Museum, Twitter.

01:53:25.380 --> 01:53:28.949
It's all easily searched. We can always use donations.

01:53:29.189 --> 01:53:32.250
We run the back as a for -profit, which is the

01:53:32.250 --> 01:53:33.890
merchandise to the tourists. And then we have

01:53:33.890 --> 01:53:36.350
a nonprofit that supplements school children.

01:53:36.770 --> 01:53:38.890
A lot of these schools can't afford the bus or

01:53:38.890 --> 01:53:41.090
can't afford the tickets or can't afford the

01:53:41.090 --> 01:53:44.050
stuff. So we raise money on the nonprofit side.

01:53:44.109 --> 01:53:46.170
So if you donate, it goes to the nonprofit, does

01:53:46.170 --> 01:53:48.390
not go to the profit side. And then we use it

01:53:48.390 --> 01:53:52.470
to subsidize schools and make it more affordable

01:53:52.470 --> 01:53:55.609
for them to come here. We comp the whole thing,

01:53:55.670 --> 01:53:57.970
depending on how much we have. COVID kind of

01:53:57.970 --> 01:53:59.930
knocked that on the head for a while because

01:53:59.930 --> 01:54:03.130
I didn't feel during the pandemic to go out asking

01:54:03.130 --> 01:54:05.569
for money for this. It's a luxury thing for even

01:54:05.569 --> 01:54:08.710
schools to come see it. But so far, so good.

01:54:08.789 --> 01:54:10.890
We have a lot of schools coming through and it's

01:54:10.890 --> 01:54:13.949
miraculous to see. For me, I can't imagine. I

01:54:13.949 --> 01:54:15.810
wish I would have read it in seventh grade. I

01:54:15.810 --> 01:54:17.770
did not read it in seventh grade, but I wish

01:54:17.770 --> 01:54:20.430
I could have read it and enjoyed it then. Then

01:54:20.430 --> 01:54:23.279
to go see the movie, then to be able to. take

01:54:23.279 --> 01:54:25.340
a field trip to the actual house that is not

01:54:25.340 --> 01:54:28.859
only a collectible itself and in the movie, but

01:54:28.859 --> 01:54:31.479
the same collectible is the home of all the other

01:54:31.479 --> 01:54:34.180
great collectibles that are inside that house.

01:54:34.420 --> 01:54:36.640
That's a Willy Wonka experience as far as I'm

01:54:36.640 --> 01:54:38.779
concerned. And I'm glad that we can offer it

01:54:38.779 --> 01:54:41.579
to the kids at Tulsa. And we had a tour two days

01:54:41.579 --> 01:54:44.520
ago come from three miles, three hours away.

01:54:45.229 --> 01:54:47.130
in a place in Oklahoma I never heard, so I wouldn't

01:54:47.130 --> 01:54:50.189
even try to remember what she told me. I said,

01:54:50.210 --> 01:54:52.109
you guys drove how long? Three hours. I said,

01:54:52.109 --> 01:54:54.869
unreal. I was so happy. They come all that way.

01:54:55.109 --> 01:54:56.869
That's a long way with the bus full of students,

01:54:57.090 --> 01:55:00.689
eighth graders these were. My old ass was already

01:55:00.689 --> 01:55:04.489
like, how many bathroom stops is that? Anyway,

01:55:04.670 --> 01:55:06.689
but the kids enjoy it, even if they don't know

01:55:06.689 --> 01:55:08.130
the first thing about the book or the movie,

01:55:08.210 --> 01:55:10.390
which they all do, but there are some. Their

01:55:10.390 --> 01:55:12.350
interest gets piqued in that there's all this

01:55:12.350 --> 01:55:15.539
cool greaser stuff from the what they think is

01:55:15.539 --> 01:55:20.220
you know eons ago but it's got that 50s and 60s

01:55:20.220 --> 01:55:23.979
vibe of anywhere usa and so there's always something

01:55:23.979 --> 01:55:26.739
for somebody to chew on in there so brilliant

01:55:26.739 --> 01:55:29.220
well this one asks two closing questions the

01:55:29.220 --> 01:55:31.560
first one because because i normally ask about

01:55:31.560 --> 01:55:33.359
books and films i think we've pretty much you

01:55:33.359 --> 01:55:35.239
know filled those two slots the outsiders the

01:55:35.239 --> 01:55:38.619
outsiders So is there a person you'd recommend

01:55:38.619 --> 01:55:41.520
to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to

01:55:41.520 --> 01:55:43.380
the first responders, military, and associated

01:55:43.380 --> 01:55:49.359
professions of the world? I mean, maybe Ken Casey

01:55:49.359 --> 01:55:54.460
from Dropkick, Murphy's. I know he's at long

01:55:54.460 --> 01:55:57.920
-term sobriety. I know that, and this is from

01:55:57.920 --> 01:55:59.779
an outsider's perspective, all pun intended.

01:56:00.220 --> 01:56:03.600
I know that the Dropkicks... Didn't just have

01:56:03.600 --> 01:56:07.260
a meteoric rise to fame. They started middle

01:56:07.260 --> 01:56:11.800
class, working class, punk rock. And then with

01:56:11.800 --> 01:56:15.500
the release of Shippin' Up to Boston and Gangs

01:56:15.500 --> 01:56:17.699
of New York, they go through the roof and they've

01:56:17.699 --> 01:56:19.359
been able to stay up there, which is fantastic.

01:56:19.899 --> 01:56:23.279
If there's any competition at the stadiums for

01:56:23.279 --> 01:56:28.350
airtime on songs that get the crowd hyped. uh

01:56:28.350 --> 01:56:31.970
it's definitely the drop kicks or or jack white's

01:56:31.970 --> 01:56:34.189
songs that are you know in close running with

01:56:34.189 --> 01:56:38.890
jump around and we will rock you from uh from

01:56:38.890 --> 01:56:44.010
yeah from uh freddie mercury from anyway um he

01:56:44.010 --> 01:56:47.130
he because he's here now because i was just thinking

01:56:47.130 --> 01:56:49.050
i think he'd be a great guest because and he

01:56:49.050 --> 01:56:51.810
also he he he ran a pub for a long time they

01:56:51.810 --> 01:56:53.390
own enough said mcgreedy's which was like one

01:56:53.390 --> 01:56:57.920
of the oldest um Boston Red Sox pub in Boston,

01:56:58.000 --> 01:57:01.039
90 feet from Fenway. He's also got his hand in

01:57:01.039 --> 01:57:03.220
the boxing game. So he's not, and I think even

01:57:03.220 --> 01:57:06.119
that he runs a rehab or a fund that raises money.

01:57:06.199 --> 01:57:08.079
I think they do the cloud of fund, which raises

01:57:08.079 --> 01:57:11.159
money for disadvantaged kids and sobriety and

01:57:11.159 --> 01:57:16.699
for other stuff. So he definitely is on my mind

01:57:16.699 --> 01:57:18.560
for a reason. And I think he'd be a great one.

01:57:18.600 --> 01:57:21.910
I will see him at some point later today. I'll

01:57:21.910 --> 01:57:24.470
mention it to him, but I think also ask Nakko

01:57:24.470 --> 01:57:27.029
because Nakko is plugged in with them as well,

01:57:27.149 --> 01:57:31.189
way more than I am. I think he'd be great for

01:57:31.189 --> 01:57:33.949
you. And then what was the other question? Well,

01:57:33.970 --> 01:57:35.329
actually, just to add to that, I had one of the

01:57:35.329 --> 01:57:37.569
band, Lee Fortuner, who's kind of like their

01:57:37.569 --> 01:57:40.170
other bagpipe player. So when they tour, Lee

01:57:40.170 --> 01:57:41.770
is normally with them. He was a firefighter here

01:57:41.770 --> 01:57:43.710
in Florida and ended up being part of the band.

01:57:43.850 --> 01:57:46.050
So I think he's mentioned Ken as well. So that's

01:57:46.050 --> 01:57:47.569
someone I definitely need to reach out to. And

01:57:47.569 --> 01:57:49.449
then I know that the original singer, Mike McColgan,

01:57:49.489 --> 01:57:51.760
he was on the fire. department for a minute there

01:57:51.760 --> 01:57:54.939
too uh and then he started the street dog so

01:57:54.939 --> 01:57:57.119
but i think ken would be a good one man because

01:57:57.119 --> 01:57:59.779
i mean that's ken's band i don't care what anybody

01:57:59.779 --> 01:58:01.880
says i mean that and you know that that's not

01:58:01.880 --> 01:58:04.659
a secret that's his baby he's the tip of the

01:58:04.659 --> 01:58:07.840
spear and i think you know and i never really

01:58:07.840 --> 01:58:10.560
i don't know i'm sure he's been on a on a lot

01:58:10.560 --> 01:58:13.380
of them but i've never heard ken really speak

01:58:13.380 --> 01:58:16.390
he's actually speaking this sunday at a meeting

01:58:16.390 --> 01:58:18.630
that we do here, he's going to be the speaker.

01:58:18.710 --> 01:58:20.109
I asked him yesterday. He's like, yeah, absolutely.

01:58:20.229 --> 01:58:22.529
He didn't even hesitate. So I'm excited to hear

01:58:22.529 --> 01:58:25.090
a little bit more about the, you know, the behind

01:58:25.090 --> 01:58:27.090
the scenes story of him, but I just coming off

01:58:27.090 --> 01:58:28.689
the top of my head, I think that would be a great

01:58:28.689 --> 01:58:30.689
one for you. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that

01:58:30.689 --> 01:58:33.289
as I was talking to Nako is how we got connected.

01:58:33.930 --> 01:58:37.710
My thing is as a, as this kind of nucleus of

01:58:37.710 --> 01:58:39.850
this project with people being military and first

01:58:39.850 --> 01:58:41.869
responder and medical and, you know, like I saw

01:58:41.869 --> 01:58:44.050
boy soldiers and all these, these crazy things.

01:58:44.520 --> 01:58:46.560
The humanity is what connects us all. And one

01:58:46.560 --> 01:58:48.819
thing is, when I look back retroactively at the

01:58:48.819 --> 01:58:52.380
music scene, is I would say that and the acting

01:58:52.380 --> 01:58:55.619
profession, when we lose people to addiction

01:58:55.619 --> 01:58:58.020
or suicide, there used to be for a very long

01:58:58.020 --> 01:59:00.239
time, well, you know, it's what you get, being

01:59:00.239 --> 01:59:01.920
a musician, being a rock, you know what I mean?

01:59:01.979 --> 01:59:05.060
And that's absolute bullshit. So I'm really wanting

01:59:05.060 --> 01:59:07.659
to get some people from that kind of background

01:59:07.659 --> 01:59:10.090
industry as well, because... We're all human

01:59:10.090 --> 01:59:12.850
beings. I wore a uniform as a firefighter. You

01:59:12.850 --> 01:59:16.970
were behind the guys holding the microphones.

01:59:17.029 --> 01:59:19.109
You were kind of creating that entire stage for

01:59:19.109 --> 01:59:20.750
them. So we've all got different professions,

01:59:20.890 --> 01:59:23.590
but ultimately we're humans. We began as children

01:59:23.590 --> 01:59:25.930
and had our experience, whatever that was. And

01:59:25.930 --> 01:59:28.789
then that kind of catapulted us to positive,

01:59:28.869 --> 01:59:31.449
negative, and everything in between. So I would

01:59:31.449 --> 01:59:34.590
love to get that and bring that commonality in

01:59:34.590 --> 01:59:38.029
from the kind of pseudo -punk rock scene as well.

01:59:39.140 --> 01:59:41.500
Yeah, man. Brilliant. All right. Well, the very

01:59:41.500 --> 01:59:43.560
last question I heard you talk about, we'll touch

01:59:43.560 --> 01:59:45.220
on meditation for a second. So the very last

01:59:45.220 --> 01:59:47.760
one before I let you go, what do you do to decompress?

01:59:49.500 --> 01:59:52.439
I mean, there's a few different methods. I mean,

01:59:52.520 --> 01:59:55.060
in the morning, I'm not perfect with it, but

01:59:55.060 --> 01:59:59.609
I definitely pray, meditate. and write a gratitude

01:59:59.609 --> 02:00:02.250
list. And then during the day, there's a thing

02:00:02.250 --> 02:00:05.229
called HALT. It's an acronym. And anytime I'm

02:00:05.229 --> 02:00:07.310
stressed out, I got to go, am I hungry, angry,

02:00:07.569 --> 02:00:11.670
lonely, or tired? Sometimes it's all four. It

02:00:11.670 --> 02:00:14.810
could be horny too. I'm just kidding. But when

02:00:14.810 --> 02:00:16.989
I ask myself those questions, I go, holy shit,

02:00:17.050 --> 02:00:19.350
I haven't eaten anything. I've taken six shots

02:00:19.350 --> 02:00:23.130
of espresso and ate a donut. And now my sugar's

02:00:23.130 --> 02:00:27.659
crashing and I'm angry. irritable and discontent.

02:00:27.760 --> 02:00:30.180
And I'm like, shocker, you might want to like

02:00:30.180 --> 02:00:33.880
take a nap or eat something, go get a, you know,

02:00:33.899 --> 02:00:37.140
something that'll replenish your. And so those

02:00:37.140 --> 02:00:39.899
are the things that I do. And then one from the

02:00:39.899 --> 02:00:43.439
program is, is, is pause when agitated. It's

02:00:43.439 --> 02:00:45.699
like you try to not make any decisions in haste.

02:00:45.800 --> 02:00:48.340
Cause as soon as I get upset, the snap decisions

02:00:48.340 --> 02:00:51.159
are the ones that cost me the most. It's good

02:00:51.159 --> 02:00:53.229
to pause and just be like, dude, hold up. All

02:00:53.229 --> 02:00:54.869
right, let me think about this for a second,

02:00:54.949 --> 02:00:59.029
and let me cool down. Huh, huh, isn't that right

02:00:59.029 --> 02:01:02.189
a little bit? But yeah, that's it. I got my little

02:01:02.189 --> 02:01:04.449
adopted dog here. I thought I was going to foster

02:01:04.449 --> 02:01:06.409
him for one week, and then I'd find someone who

02:01:06.409 --> 02:01:09.329
could take him, but now we're stuck on each other

02:01:09.329 --> 02:01:12.970
like glue. Listen, life is good, man, when I

02:01:12.970 --> 02:01:15.289
just got out of my own way and then just started

02:01:15.289 --> 02:01:19.460
to participate in a way that was, you know. different

02:01:19.460 --> 02:01:21.359
than I had been doing before. Like I said, you're

02:01:21.359 --> 02:01:24.199
about parenting and I haven't ever experienced

02:01:24.199 --> 02:01:26.819
that, but I had a good blueprint from just doing

02:01:26.819 --> 02:01:29.880
the opposite, I think, of, you know, that 70s

02:01:29.880 --> 02:01:31.619
model that was going around in New York for a

02:01:31.619 --> 02:01:37.020
long time that I saw in my life. And yeah, I

02:01:37.020 --> 02:01:39.939
think from the life that I formerly led, I just

02:01:39.939 --> 02:01:44.649
do the absolute. You know, there's a St. Francis

02:01:44.649 --> 02:01:46.430
prayer. You'll have to Google it because I don't

02:01:46.430 --> 02:01:48.670
want to botch it. But it's basically bringing

02:01:48.670 --> 02:01:50.869
what's missing. If there's despair, bring hope.

02:01:51.090 --> 02:01:54.210
If there's anger, bring love. If there's, you

02:01:54.210 --> 02:01:57.750
know, it's basically bringing opposite action

02:01:57.750 --> 02:02:00.850
to what you don't like. And so it's easy for

02:02:00.850 --> 02:02:03.789
me to find fault in things. So what now? What

02:02:03.789 --> 02:02:07.710
can I bring to counterbalance? That is what I

02:02:07.710 --> 02:02:11.140
try to do the most. Not always easy. And so with

02:02:11.140 --> 02:02:14.119
that, I'll end. I got to go walk this dog and

02:02:14.119 --> 02:02:16.720
take care of the rest of my day. But it's been

02:02:16.720 --> 02:02:18.640
a pleasure talking to you. Shout out to Knuckle

02:02:18.640 --> 02:02:22.760
Nolan. He's one of the most even keeled man's

02:02:22.760 --> 02:02:25.939
man, always there to help. I can't say enough

02:02:25.939 --> 02:02:28.840
good things about him. And he's he's a big influence

02:02:28.840 --> 02:02:31.300
on me, too, man, because we both started out

02:02:31.300 --> 02:02:33.819
big cheeseburger eating, you know, shit talking

02:02:33.819 --> 02:02:37.029
New Yorkers. And in the last. Shit, it's been

02:02:37.029 --> 02:02:38.789
eight years since I've known him, probably, maybe

02:02:38.789 --> 02:02:42.890
more. I've watched the growth in him in ways

02:02:42.890 --> 02:02:45.869
that I just... We both never wore shorts. I'm

02:02:45.869 --> 02:02:47.210
wearing shorts right now. He's wearing shorts.

02:02:47.390 --> 02:02:49.390
We used to clown on dudes with flip -flops. He's

02:02:49.390 --> 02:02:51.869
rocking flip -flops. He's doing jujitsu. He even

02:02:51.869 --> 02:02:53.850
bought a fucking surfboard, for Christ's sake.

02:02:53.909 --> 02:02:56.229
I mean, that's far from who we... You know, we

02:02:56.229 --> 02:02:58.250
were like, you know, jaded New Yorkers talking

02:02:58.250 --> 02:03:01.859
shit, ba -ba -ba. And it's just... so great to

02:03:01.859 --> 02:03:03.960
watch people do what they say they're going to

02:03:03.960 --> 02:03:06.279
do and grow. Cause I noticed it before they might

02:03:06.279 --> 02:03:08.020
notice the growth in themselves. And that's the

02:03:08.020 --> 02:03:10.739
same thing for me. People tell me, Danny, it's

02:03:10.739 --> 02:03:12.340
so impressive to see what you're doing. I don't

02:03:12.340 --> 02:03:13.979
even notice cause I'm just doing what I'm doing.

02:03:14.119 --> 02:03:16.340
And you know, it's like that. So shout out to

02:03:16.340 --> 02:03:18.560
knock on Nolan. Great talking to you, my man.

02:03:18.619 --> 02:03:21.399
I will put it in Ken's ear today, but also tell,

02:03:21.520 --> 02:03:23.680
tell knock cause he's got a, he's got a direct

02:03:23.680 --> 02:03:27.470
connect with them. And, uh, I'm looking forward

02:03:27.470 --> 02:03:30.170
to, you know, one day coming to meet you and

02:03:30.170 --> 02:03:32.390
all hanging out. Maybe me and you and Nak can

02:03:32.390 --> 02:03:35.329
get together and chop it up some more.