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Welcome to episode 599 of Behind the Shield podcast.
As always, my name is James Gearing and this
week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the
show Danny O 'Connor. Now Danny is one of the
founding members of House of Pain and I'm sure
many of you are aware of their music. However,
his life story is so much more powerful than
the music alone. So we discuss a host of topics
from his early life finding his way into hip
-hop, addiction, recovery, the outsiders, and
so much more. Before we get to this incredible
conversation, as I say every week, please just
take a moment, go to whichever app you listen
to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback.
and leave a rating. Every five -star rating truly
does elevate this podcast, therefore making it
easier for other people to find. And this is
a free library of almost 600 episodes. So all
I ask in return is that you help share these
incredible men and women's stories so I can get
them to every single person who needs to hear
them. So with that being said, I introduce to
you Danny Boy O 'Connor. Enjoy. Well, Danny,
I want to start by saying thank you so, so much
for taking the time to come on the Behind the
Shield podcast today. My pleasure, man. So very
first question, where on planet Earth are we
finding you on this fine day? I'm in a beautiful
downtown Tulsa, Oklahoma, home of the greaser,
and I'm loving every minute of it. I was born
in Brooklyn, New York, raised in Los Angeles.
I spent probably 48. years of my life in either
the San Fernando Valley or Hollywood area. And
I moved to Tulsa five years ago. And it's the
smartest thing I've ever done. So happy to be
joining you. Beautiful. Well, I know there's
a hell of a story and a very powerful story of
why you're in Tulsa. So I'd love to get that
as we progress through. I'd love to start chronologically
at the very beginning, though. So tell me where
you were born and tell me a little bit about
your family dynamic, what your parents did and
how many siblings. To my knowledge at the time,
I was born in Brooklyn, New York. At two months
old, we were evicted from our apartment. My father
went to prison. And we moved in with my grandparents
who lived in Staten Island over the bridge from
Brooklyn. I spent the first three years with
my grandparents. And then my mother got married
to another alcoholic. We moved maybe a mile and
a half down the road to a project. called the
tyson lane projects and it was you know it was
tough it was when i lived with my grandparents
it was it was it was fantastic because you know
grandparents always kind of you know If they've
had any flaws in their own raising of their children,
they kind of figure a way to make up for it on
their grandchildren. So they took very good care
of me and I loved every minute of being there.
I did not love every minute of being in the projects.
It was tough back then, New York in the 70s and
the early 70s was a rough place. A lot of people
coming home from Vietnam, a lot of people's parents,
you know, there was a lot of, I remember as a
kid seeing, you know, just, People in the laundromat,
you know, every building had like a laundry room
and people were in there getting robbed. They
would wait for women to come in with their money
for the laundry money and rob them for that.
I think people were getting pushed off the roof
of this historic building that we lived in. And
a lot of, you know, a lot of tough kids, a lot
of Puerto Rican kids, a lot of tough Irish kids,
a lot of tough Italian kids. And it just was
completely different than, you know, being. just
the golden child at my grandparents' house a
couple of miles away, you know? So, but it was
all I knew. And, you know, I have two siblings.
I did not know I had an older brother until I
was about 20 years old, which we'll get to, I
guess, I'll tell you how that happened as we
move forward. But at the time I only knew that
I had a stepsister through my stepfather. And
then we stayed in New York till, I was six years
old and we moved to California. My mother was
a key punch operator at the Chase Manhattan Bank.
So the first few years of my life, I didn't really
look at her or understand that that was my mother
because she worked nights and slept in the days.
And obviously as an infant, I was up in the days
and slept at night. So I really only see her
barely on the weekends. And for people who don't
know, key punch operating predates computer programming.
It is technically computer. maybe not programming,
but they used to have index cards. And then on
those index cards, there was divots punched out,
you know, square or rectangular divots. And you
would insert those into this computer and it
would then, by the placement of those digits,
I mean, yeah. holes punch it would know whatever
you were trying to tell it to do so late nights
chase manhattan bank that's what she was doing
she left for la because her brother was also
a computer programmer and los angeles at the
time was the hotbed for all of that activity
uh she ended up in the aerospace portion of it
it's a at lytton and she worked on the guidance
systems for our nuclear arsenal or the defense
systems against russians uh the russian uh nuclear
arsenal that star wars program i don't know if
you remember that but there was programs so yeah
so she wrote a she wrote in a language that's
no longer uh used anymore ironically during uh
y2k they brought her back for like triple the
pay that she was making at any other time to
try to fix the y2k because the language that
they wrote was called cobalt and it's no longer
it's just not a computer language anymore so
anybody who knew it would be you know of a certain
age and they were trying to fix the the the y2k
clock problem but uh as we know that wasn't as
big as a problem as we thought it was and you
know i i share this often because i'm in recovery
and you know um My grandparents life was great
when I moved in the apartment with my mother
and my stepfather. They were they were he was
drunk a lot. He was violent. But it was kind
of all around me in the projects. And I just
thought, OK, this is the next part of life where
it's tough and it's uncomfortable and scary.
And, you know, there was a lot of you know, there
was a lot of that around me at the time. And
so when we moved to California when I was six,
unfortunately for my stepfather. He dies pretty
soon after that. He died at 35 of cirrhosis of
the liver. So I can't imagine, and this is coming
from a recovered alcoholic addict, the kind of
drinking you'd have to do to die at 35. But I
saw some of the drinking as a kid. I remember
my mother, he would walk me to school in the
morning and then he would stop at the liquor
store. He would come out with a pint of milk
and a bottle. And then he would come up close
to me and said, don't tell your mother I'm drinking
milk. I said, all right, yeah, yeah, no. I said,
remember, don't tell her it was drinking milk.
And as a, I don't know, like a five -year -old
kid, that's like such a weird request, you know?
All right, I won't tell her. And then what he
would do is pour his fifth of whatever he was
drinking into that milk carton with the milk
and then drink it, throw it up. drink it, throw
it up. And by the third or fourth time he would
drink it and it would go down and then he could
get right. You know, he was a real alcoholic
and he stopped shaking and he could get well.
And that's what he did to get well. And then
when I would come home from school, my mother,
the first thing she would ask me was, was Richie
drinking milk? And I'm like, I didn't know what
to do, you know, because I was scared of him.
And I was scared, you know, and I didn't know
what to tell her. I don't even remember if I
told on him or if I did. It was always awkward.
I think I probably cried. And then they just
she couldn't get an answer out of me because
it was just scary times. And looking back, obviously,
like I said, I described what I now know was
a full blown alcoholic who was every day had
to try to get a few drinks just to sit down in
there to get him to just to be able to be semi
functional, which is it's such a tough way of
living. It's unfortunate that he didn't find
recovery. But, you know, it's scary when you're
a kid. It's not, it's, yeah. You know, and I've
even, I brought it up to my mother once. She
started crying about it. I'm like, you know,
it just. As an adult now, I can't imagine putting
kids in the care of that, you know, in the hands
of that. But again, you know, I got to have some
empathy for my mother, too. She was probably
23, 24, late 20s at best. And I think to myself
when I was late 20s, which I felt, you know,
those are not some of my finer moments at that
age. And the decisions I made were based off
of, you know, fear or selfish, you know, things
that I was trying to do. So I have empathy, but,
you know, there's part of me that's, you know,
I thought maybe I'd be a parent by this point.
I'm not a parent at this point. But if I was
a parent at this point, I would definitely have
all of the necessary life lessons and just all
the instruction would be simple. Just do the
exact opposite of what my parents did. And that
would be a pretty. good roadmap for success.
So anyway, you know, it, I think it made me who
I am. It made me, you know, tough where I needed
to be tough. Sometimes that muscle was overworked
and later in life, recovery and sobriety and
some humility would soften me up a bit. And I
feel like at this point, you know, I found what
I was looking for in that area, but yeah, it
was a tough life. So when we finally get to California,
it was culture shock. I was stuck in military
school for a year, which was overwhelming. The
curriculum at third grade was so high that I
wasn't even ready for it. I got held back that
year. I went to public school the next year and
was a straight -A student just for that, maybe
the first semester, because the curriculum. Prior
to that was so hard, and they would give you
swaps if you got demerits and stuff like that.
They would literally, every Friday, they'd pull
all the kids in that didn't shine their shoes
or didn't have the uniform straight or weren't
turning in homework, and they would literally
give you the paddle. It's scary, too, when you're
a third -grade kid. So by the time I got to public
school, it was a lot more. easier on me. But
I was never a good student. I feel there's definitely
a learning disability that I have. I'd always
be the class clown or try to get people to laugh
or always do things for approval. I feel like
I never got the approval I was looking for at
home. And so I look for that in other situations.
And maybe that's still true of me. I don't know
if that ever changes. I know it's a driving force.
And in a lot of the endeavors that I took on,
it was always something in a public light or
something that people would be like, wow, that's
cool. You know, then would be to do behind closed
doors and nobody ever know. But that on the sand,
I'm thinking out loud on here, but I think the
things that happen behind closed doors are people
that are the aptitude is more fit for that. I'm
more in front of the camera, if you will, than
behind the camera, you know, so. Yeah. But so
life was, you know, life for me, I don't want
to sing a tale of, well, my mother did the best
she could. We were never poor. We were always
middle class, sometimes lower middle class, sometimes
just middle class. There was always kids that
were poor. There were friends that I had that
were way poorer than me. And there were friends
that we had in California that were way richer
than me. I think when we moved to California
after being there, you know, after I started
to, you know, my early teens, I started to realize
that everybody had like a different, you know,
some people were rich, some people were poor,
some people, you start. The pack starts to separate,
you know, some people's bicycles were better,
some people's clothes were better, some handheld
like little Pac -Man things started coming out
or, you know, the Nintendo systems or whatever.
And some people's family could afford them with
not a problem. And some had to wait a year or
two before they could, you know, the prices came
down and got them. And it's at that point where
I started to feel a little uncomfortable, selfish,
self, you know, aware of that and then feeling
less than. And it's right about that time that
I see The Outsiders. I always credit that movie
with kind of like affirming that if the best
life ever gets is a pack of friends that have
your best interest and you theirs, a few denim
jackets, a pack of cigarettes, and we sneak into
the drive -in theater, that if that's the best
life gets, I can live with that. You know what
I mean? And so I carried that for a long time.
with me, that vibe, that Dallas Winston, Matt
Dillon character vibe, just get tough on one
side and nothing can touch you. And then having
the empathy that Johnny Cade had in The Outsiders,
if you know the book or movie. And then the only
thing I think I'm skipping over, which was a
tremendous gift that... At the time, I didn't
realize how important a role it would play in
my life. But that stepfather that I had, he had
a wonderful brother, my Uncle Mickey and his
wife, my Aunt Edie, and two kids at the time.
They had another kid later. And they would take
me every summer. I would fly out to New Jersey
to meet them. They were from Staten Island or
Brooklyn originally, then Staten Island, then
New Jersey. And I would fly out every summer
to meet them. Because my mother just couldn't
handle two kids and she would be at work all
the time. And she would fly me out there and
then we would drive in the station wagon from
New Jersey all the way to Springfield, Missouri,
which is literally like. the center of the U
.S., and my aunt came from a farm. And along
the way, they would stop at, like, thrift stores,
antique shops, flea markets. They were in search
of coffee grinders. They were in the coffee business,
and they were looking for antique coffee grinders.
But as kids, we were looking for comic books
and baseball cards and fatigues and patches from
the military. These were exciting trips for us,
and I think it made me roadworthy. from a young
age. And I was always fascinated with just life
on the road. And I'd get to a different hotel
in a different city in a different town. And
we'd turn on the TV and the commercials were
different. And some of the products were different.
In LA, we didn't have Mellow Yellow, which was
a soda you could find in the Midwest. We didn't
have Entenmann's and Devil Dogs that they had
in New York, but they didn't have them. And then
vice versa, we had some stuff in LA that they
didn't have. And I just realized I was comfortable
in the constant. motion and traveling uh thing
I was a sponge for all of that stuff and I think
by the time I got into the music uh business
uh there were some people that were in other
groups that that are contemporaries and and some
of those guys kind of pulled out of touring for
a long time because they just hated being on
the road but that was never my my story so I
look back at those very fond those years is like
kind of the thing that saves me you know because
I and oh and also by going back and forth every
summer until I was about 13 or so. This is pre
-internet, pre -cell phones. Obviously, I'm 53
years old, so this is in the 80s, early 80s.
Music and television and movie influences are
different, man. And I always say I was bringing
Oingo Boingo and Fishbone tapes back to New Jersey
with me, and I was coming home with Curtis Blow,
Run DMC, and Grandmaster Flash. And at the time,
there were big differences. You know, there was
skateboard and surf culture in L .A. And I was
dressing like every other kid, which was O .P.,
Vans and Lightning Bolt. And then coming back
from that summer with maybe a pair of Pumas and
some lead denim, just trying to emulate that
New York hip hop look and spending a lot of my
time. you know, listening to radio that we could
get in New Jersey that was playing a little bit
of R &B and hip -hop at the time. And it made
me kind of like a wizard on both coasts amongst
the 12 -year -olds, if you will, because I knew
a lot about stuff that they wouldn't hear about
until a couple of years later or on a movie soundtrack
or whatever. So it just kind of, I felt like
I was at the epicenter of both of that new wave
slash hip -hop era as it was starting. And I
always felt... A kinship to hip hop, because
in my heart, I'm a New Yorker till I die, even
though I spent the majority, a vast majority
of my life in Los Angeles. I've always been a
fan of the Yankees. I've always been in love
with anything that's been like 70s or 80s New
York or even before that. But that era in particular.
And so and then going back every summer, New
York, New Jersey area. I just would soak up as
much as I could that summer and then carry that
with me until the following summer. And then,
you know, by the time I'm 20, we're signed to
a New York label and we're going back and forth
coast to coast. But it was like I like to call
it a poor man's Glenn E. Friedman experience.
And if you don't know who that is at home, Google
that name. You'll be shocked. It's one of the
most prolific photographers to ever do it. And
he definitely covered that 14. He was covering
the Dogtown skateboard scene. in its infancy
here in California. He covered the DC punk scene.
He's done most of your favorite record covers,
whether it's Public Enemy or Minor Threat or
Bad Brains or whatever. He's lived probably a
hundred lives. Most photographers don't get a
fraction of what he's got accomplished, but he
just happened to be the right place at the right
time for three different major scenes, the hardcore
punk scene in New York and DC. the skateboard
surf dogtown venice santa monica scene early
on and then all of the early hip -hop stuff through
def jam incredible uh eye and incredible talent
and I feel like I was seeing all of the stuff
he was doing as a kid, going back and forth,
being, like, hip to all that shit way before
a lot of people were, at least in my circle.
So I always, you know, called it just that. But,
yeah, it was a good thing. You know, looking
back, and even as I tell you this, you know,
there's no real story of, whoa, you know, I made
a lot of bad choices moving forward. And it ended
me up in a lot of shit. And then I've done a
lot of things since then to recover. Well, firstly,
thank you for laying that out. It parallels so
many other people that have been on here. And
one thing I see, a lot of times there's an inception
almost of like the World War II era. I think
myself included, a lot of us have this romanticized
image of all our vets coming home, ticker tape
parades, they're all happy, they roll up their
sleeves and they go to work. Behind the scenes,
as I talk to more and more people, you realize
that, no, that's not the case at all. And then
you fast forward another generation. Now you're
starting to see all that kind of second generation
of trauma. And then you've got broken homes and
you've got, you know, abuse in the household.
You've got single mothers who aren't seeing their
children because they're trying to, you know,
pay the bills. So were you ever able to find
out kind of the generation before maybe what
caused your dad's road to prison, what caused
your stepfather's road to addiction? You know,
I never did, and it's a good question, but it
seems to me, I don't know much about my father's
family, but I've met a few of them online. Facebook
is a strange and interesting place, and some
of them seem well -adjusted and fit, and some
of them are crazy like me. And on my stepfather's
side, they were, like I said, his brother. They
had a great life. They may have had a beer or
two, but they knew when to put it down. Or at
least I didn't see any alcoholism on that side
myself. I'm echoing what you're saying. It's
100 % true in my thing. I don't know. Prior to
that, I'm sure I'm certain on the O 'Connor side
that alcoholism runs through that family lineage
and some brothers and sisters did better than
others. But I don't know in detail enough to
answer that question. And I would love to know
this. I knew my father was a career criminal
and I have a lot of friends, a handful of friends
on NYPD. And I said, can you look up so I can
have a better picture of what kind of stuff he
was doing? And they couldn't. They said it was
before those records got rolled into the digital
thing and a lot of things. And he was, you know,
he he was a lot older than my mother, you know,
a decade older than my mother. My mother's probably
in her mid 70s now. So, you know, it's going
back to a time where a lot of those stuff. And
then he was he was murdered when I was 17. He
was homeless by the time he was going in and
out of prison, in and out of the homelessness.
And somebody for fun, actually. It's ironic.
And I say this a lot. And, you know, he was killed,
unfortunately, for no reason but for somebody,
I guess, to get their kicks. But the police chief's
son of Staten Island decided to light a bomb
on fire that happened to be my father. So he
was burnt alive when he was homeless. I'm an
advocate for the Second Amendment, I believe.
That, you know, my constitution guarantees me
the right to bear arms and protect myself, my
family, my loved ones. And I as much as I, you
know, despise the act that that that person did.
I'm not anti cop. I'm not anti gasoline. I'm
not anti matches. You can kill somebody in so
many ways or just destruction so many ways. What
I am is like anti ignorance and anti like. Those
kinds of actions. I don't know what kind of mind
state you got to be in to do that. That being
said, I don't, you know, there's some stuff,
obviously not, you know, to that level, but I've
done a lot of stupid things in my life. Looking
back that seconds and inches away from sheer
disaster for somebody else, for myself, for everybody
involved. And so I really, you know, it's a tough
one, but yeah, you know. It's funny that you
brought the broken home thing up. I talk to people
all the time because of the position I have now
with the museum and being in recovery. It's tough
for me. As much as I love hip -hop and what it's
done, it's had a wonderful effect on my life,
but there's also a negative side of it that doesn't
get discussed a lot. And it's heartbreaking,
really, because all of the stuff that can end
you up, all of the professions, let's just call
it the streets, right? It's not even hip -hop
alone, but hip -hop glorifies all the stuff that
as a 53 -year -old adult who's turned the corner
on all of that stuff that I despise. You know,
if you're in the streets and you're a thug, you're
a pimp, you're a pusher. you're uh whatever you're
like those those occupations are held on high
you know what i mean any other place that's not
only a prison sentence it's like the worst thing
you could be and as a young kid i gravitated
to that mindset and i feel because i didn't have
anybody at home and any telling me that shit
and then when i Would hear stories about my father
and him being a thug and him being a gangster
or a tough guy or whatever you want to call it.
And then add all of the, you know, watching Scarface
as a kid or all of the movies. I just gravitated
towards outlaw culture and street culture. And,
you know, it's really, it's a double -edged sword
because it's like. I'll always love the rebel.
You know what I mean? I'll always have. And that's
really what people love about the American spirit
is that we're rebels and that there's that undercurrent
of that. But when you really are in that life,
man, it's like it's jails, institutions or death.
You know, there's nothing cool about it. And
I bought into it hook, line and sinker, you know,
and it cost me dearly for a long time. And, you
know, it served me when I was younger. You know,
I didn't need a lawyer or somebody to look over
my contract because if they went bad, you know,
I'm just going to do you in. You know, there's
no the threat of that. Like, hey, if you do me
dirty, they'll be held to pay. People understood
that. And that's cool in your 20s. If you can,
you know, you can get away with it as you get
older, you realize that that ain't it. And so
it's tough for me now, man, as much as like I
said, and this is it just is what it is. And
I don't care what anybody. you know, in, you
know, hip hop or the culture or the streets think
about this shit because it's just the way it
is for me. I think a lot of things could have
been different if there was a man in the family
who was sober and took the role of a father or
my father was actually just did what a father
should do. as opposed to, you know, but they
were both, both the stepfather, my father were
sick people, you know, they were, they had an
illness and they didn't, obviously they didn't
understand that there was a solution for it or
they didn't want the solution or I don't, who
knows, but it's pretty, it's, it's, it's easy
for me to look and I meet a lot of families,
man. I meet a lot of kids and you can see the
ones that from broken homes that there's something's
different about them. And it, it just, it, it,
it. The chances are, and I don't know the averages,
but I'm guessing that the chances are a lot better
if you have the nuclear family unit intact. And
especially if they give a shit, I think your
chances are better. If you don't, my advice is
to get a good education and to keep your nose
clean. As far as I'm concerned, you know, if
there's systemic anything in the system, it's
all based on your FICA score. Get a good credit
score. People, when they're coming to sell you
a house or loan you the money, they don't care
your black, white, or pinstripe. They just want
to know what your credit score is and really
what your worth is. And there's no way better.
For me, I always, and this is, I'll tie it together,
but for me, no matter how... Well, I do. I'll
always have a healthy fear of homelessness. And
the only thing that will keep me guaranteed,
for the most part, never to experience homelessness
again, is to stay sober and to work hard. So
that's what I do for that. I think if there's
anything to keep me keep doing better in society,
it's be a good guy and make sure your credit
is intact. Because really, it's hard to move
if you have a bad, you know, if you're not. on
point with that i got a ninth grade education
and my credit score fluctuates between the high
700s to the low 800s that's not bad for a guy
who was physically morally and spiritually bankrupt
and definitely came into recovery in debt and
so um slowly but surely one foot in front of
the other i've been able to to write those things
and so if if If there's news for anybody who
doesn't know, I wish my father or my stepfather
would have knew that recovery is possible. I'm
living proof of that. You talk about the theme
that joins all of us, whether it's gangs murdering
each other, whether it's addiction or suicide
or domestic violence or whatever, including deciding
that you're going to light a homeless man on
fire. The underlying thing to me is mental ill
health. You know, that's what we all suffer from,
no matter what your skin color or your religion.
If you're going through that dark place and it
can be homicide, it can be suicide, it can manifest
in so many different ways. But that's the discussion.
And what's so powerful when I get to talk to
you and all these different people of all backgrounds,
you know, some are elite, you know, war fighters.
And some, I had a guy who was a boy soldier in
Sierra Leone, who, by the way, was a huge hip
hop fan. So that's the power of music. I was
a little farm boy in England, huge hip hop fan.
But yes, but that's the conversation I think
that needs to be had. I mean, the war on drugs,
the war on gangs, it's not working if you're
not fixing children. You're not stopping the
machine that is creating traumatized children
that are giving no positive role models that
are then fumbling their way through. Some become
astronauts and they're incredible, but many of
them find themselves in a much darker path. The
hard part is, as you say that, you know, I agree.
But then there's that part of like some kids
can play, you know, video games ad nauseum and
never decide to do anything crazy. Right. And
some people can listen to hip hop and never decide
to join a gang or go sell drugs or whatever.
Unfortunately, if I'm to believe I'm hardware.
Right. The software that I put in there. Was
telling me, you know, all of the stuff that I
was reaffirming, all of the street stuff that
I was interested in. And so I'm not. Suggesting
that people don't love hip hop or listen to hip
hop or watch Scarface or watch whatever movie,
you know, some shoot them up shit. I just think
that. The way I grew up, it was a sort of it
was. I definitely feel like I suffered some post
-traumatic stress. And I feel like it was all
fear -based because I never had the stability
at home. And I was always warned or reminded
that this too can change at any time. There was
a lot of threats to just be shipped off to boys'
homes. And I also remember feeling, you know,
the fear that my mother... projected that she
was living paycheck to paycheck and it was not
easy and it was stressful. So there was always
that instability thing. And then as a young kid,
I started to see like the cocaine era starts
to hit and everybody who's like, you know, in
high school, I knew a lot of kids that were starting
to sell, you know, small amounts, but big amounts,
any amount is big, I guess, at the end of the
day. But, you know, less than an ounce, I'd say
at first. but weekly and they got nice clothes
and they got pagers and they got candles and
gold chains and in hip -hop that was everything
and there was no way I could even work a job
that would pay that kind of money to afford me
those things and I was so obsessed with having
those things that I was willing to do whatever
it took to feel a part of that and I don't know
that normal kids do that. I think they look at
it like anything else. It's entertainment. Yeah,
it's about whatever, the rah -rah shit. But they
don't maybe try to emulate that to the 10th power.
I unfortunately did. And looking back, I'm not
proud of that. When I got here, I was at a restaurant.
And they were giving me a lot of press when I
first came here, which I hadn't had that kind
of press since the early days of House of Pain.
And two kids, they might have been 12 years old.
They were like hovering around the table. We're
like at some burger joint or something. And the
kids finally come up to me and they said, Mr.
O 'Connor. And I was like, oh, wow, here we go.
You're that young calling me Mr. O 'Connor. Now
I feel old. But they said, are you him? Are you
the guy from the Outsiders House Museum? And
I got this big smile. I said, absolutely. They
said, hey, we just want to thank you for doing
what you do. And it was the first time like strangers
had thanked me. And I tell you that to tell you
that it was refreshing not to be, Danny Boy from
House of Pain. It was, are you Mr. O 'Connor
from the Outsiders House Museum? And I felt like
the page had been turned and that was proof of
like my new life could ensue. And although I'll
always be proud of being from House of Pain and
what we did and, you know, everything that encompasses
that, it was nice to be like, okay, this is real
now. I'm moving forward with the second. phase
of my life which is you know started at 50 so
yeah yeah no i can imagine how powerful that
must be and i want to get to the the kind of
house of pain journey but just before we do just
to mirror kind of what you say what you said
it's something i've discussed on here a few times
like being this little farm boy and loving hip
-hop, I still found myself drawn towards the
positive one. That was the message. I'm like,
okay, well, this relates. I mean, I'm standing
in a field full of sheep, so it's not quite,
you know, South Central LA, but, you know, drawing
the kind of pull yourself up, you know, the very
positive message that came out of it. But I've
kind of highlighted this point. If you look back
at, you know, for example, Ice Cube with Fuck
the Police or Ice -T with, you know, Cop Killer.
Sure. The irony now, you know, they're both making
a lot of money playing cops on television. And
for me, as a 48 year old man, who's also matured
and spent a whole career in the fire service,
watching the real behind the curtain of gang
violence and addiction and, you know, prostitution
and all these things that we get to witness and
scrape off the floor. To me, it's like, well,
where are these voices, these older voices of
hip hop that are saying, look, we've got to change
the storytelling. Yes, there are some things
that are a reality here, but it's projection.
We're going to keep it this way if we keep talking
about it. One of the ones saying, look, I get
it that back then we made this money and that
was kind of what we were thinking. To be honest,
it sold records and it made us money. However,
I love the gurus and the nazis and all those
that are putting the positive stuff out there.
And I just cringe when I see male or female with
this. Just, you know, feeding the fire of your,
you're going to be stuck in the hood. I mean,
I can imagine if I had a daughter and she was
listening to the WAP or, you know, that kind
of, I would be like, what the, but again, we
had that stuff too. So it's one of those double
-edged swords, man. You know what? You ask, where's
the guy? Ironically, it's Kanye. I mean, Kanye
says all of the right things and people, you
know, the hood disowns him for half of it. But
he's saying right shit. It's mindset. It's mental
slavery. And if you keep planting the same seeds,
you're going to keep reaping the same harvest.
Again, life on life's terms is that there will
always be that fascination with street culture.
Whether it's street culture that looks like outlaw
bikers or street gangs or just whatever it could
be. There's always the good and the bad of that.
And we'll always be fascinated with the underside
of any culture. I love Burroughs. I love the
poets that talk about it. I just think hip hop
was so solidified in that. And it captured so
many minds that it almost put like a, you know,
in my mind, it was okay. If you're keeping it
real, you can go too far. You know what I mean?
And I'm not blaming it for anything. Listen,
I can get those same messages other places, but
you're right. I don't know. Thinking out loud,
other than Kanye. When Kanye speaks, it's so,
it's so out there that it makes sense. And it's
not that it's like he he's like in touch with
some other like. But when you when you break
down what he says, when you hear him on Joe Rogan,
I heard him on TMZ even just and they were like
slamming him for what he said. But I'm like,
he makes sense. It's like he talks about all
of that kind of stuff. He has a really good understanding
of that, which is rare, especially at his level,
to be in touch with God and be in touch with
not that, you know, other artists haven't been.
He can articulate it. It just seems like the
streets don't want to hear what he's talking
about. But I heard what he was saying. I was
like, man, not for nothing. I kind of mirror
what you're saying that, you know, he's concerned.
I mean, I think he's a little bit touched, too.
But sometimes you ride that line of genius and
insanity. And sometimes the stuff sounds insane.
But a lot of new concepts or foreign concepts
sound insane until they don't. You know what
I mean by that? And so, yeah, I don't know, man.
I don't blame, I blame hip hop for giving me
a good ladder for the foundation of a good life.
It saved me in times. I lived for hip hop music.
I'm a B -boy until I die. I've been other things.
I've been an outlaw biker. I've been a new wave
dude. I've been into mod and Scott coach. I was
like, I went through every phase as a kid, you
know, a prep beat, whatever. And I don't, those
are not me. Those are phases that I went through
that are a part of me, but I'll always be a B
-boy, you know, for those at home that don't
know what that is. the original thing is a break
boy but it's a hip -hop head from day one it's
like i'm a b -boy like every i still rock you
know i still collect sneakers to a certain degree
i can still when i sign my name i tag it and
you know i love that that i'm always going to
be a small part of the hip -hop legacy and it's
a beautiful thing and hip -hop is a beautiful
thing and there are a lot of people but i gravitate
it to the stuff you're talking about nwa ice
cube and just and worse we made worse la coca
-nosa made worse and and as i started to reflect
back on that i'm like we're talking crazy and
it's for mature minds man and if a young kid
starts to dabble in it which they always do You
know, it might be it's easy for you. I could
I could understand why, because I did it. It
was to to not understand the boundaries of like
reality and fantasy or hyperbole and, you know,
whatever. So enough about that. I just don't
want people to come away thinking I'm bashing
hip hop, especially, you know, hip hop didn't
make me. I made some hip hop, you know what I
mean, with my friends and hip hop. uh embraced
us and the fans embraced us and it was a stepping
stone to other things you know uh and it's a
big part of my life it really the the the the
professional part of it only lasted about six
years uh my involvement prior to that was probably
maybe close to a around a decade which felt like
forever when you're young you know i was in hip
-hop around 14 years old 13 or 14. um since definitely
since uh you know rappers delight but that solidified
when curtis blow and grandmaster flash are putting
out those singles and from then on i went through
those other phases always bringing hip -hop with
me when i was a mod i still listened a lot of
hip -hop um i just felt those other subcultures
they weren't vast enough and there wasn't enough
of us to really you know take it too far and
with hip -hop but it was i felt like there was
enough room for endless expansion if that makes
sense and so and you know what we were definitely
part of that punch in your face type of hip -hop
that's the type of music we listened to that's
the type of music we made and uh and it's what
we're known for but if i have any regrets is
that you know maybe i echoed a lot of those stereotypical
uh bullshit glorifications of shit. That's not
really cool anymore. It's not cool to punch people
in the face anymore. Uh, you know, it's not cool
to, to be a criminal. It's not cool to do those
things. And, and sometimes, you know, I felt
like those were the only things that I could
probably do because I didn't feel smart enough.
I didn't feel talented enough. I didn't feel,
uh, that, that that's messaging that I, you know,
was giving to myself. Nobody was telling me that
I just felt that way. And, you know, I learned,
uh, you know, a while ago that I don't have to
believe everything I think, you know, and that's
also pretty powerful stuff because just because
I think it doesn't mean I have to buy it, you
know, and to believe it. And my mind likes to
go all over the place. And this is why, you know,
I meditate and I do a gratitude list. I do a
lot of service work because the day before the
grace of God go out, it's easy for me to forget.
uh what i've been through and it's easy for me
to fall right back into it and with long -term
sobriety i i can assure you this this is just
for me but i've seen it in other people so i
won't speak for other people but on the 15th
of this month i'll have 17 years consecutive
sobriety uh you know of consecutive sobriety
and when things happen and you if you're not
in in a spiritually fit and in a good spot and
working when i'm not i don't know what somebody
else is but when i'm not i never think about
relapsing and using drugs or alcohol again i
think about putting one in my head you know what
i mean and and saving the last bullet for myself
and that's how tricky this thing can get you
know it's like whack -a -mole i hit one down
and two other ones pop up that i didn't even
know existed so i have to be mindful and i have
to be I make more meetings now. People go, with
almost 17 years, why do you still need meetings?
Because my head is still telling me all kinds
of stuff. And if I'm not working on myself on
a daily basis, I'm in trouble. And so I can gloss
over the House of Pain thing. In three easy little...
House of Pain was a godsend. I was doing everything
you would need to do from about 16 to about 20
to end up in prison. Whether it was credit card
theft, we were reprogramming old credit cards
before there was a chip in it. We were robbing
and stealing. We were selling drugs. I say we,
basically I was and the people I was running
with. And then I ran into Everlast, who I went
to high school with. I knew him from our area.
I was a fan of his first record. that he had
on Warner Brothers when he was signing to IST.
I knew that that was over for him. And at the
time when I called him, I hadn't talked to him
in a while. I could hear his mother in the background
throwing him out of the house as he was on the
phone with me. And I said, dude, are you OK?
And he's like, no, I got to find a place to live.
My mother's freaking out. I said, I'll come pick
you up. And he came to my spot. My spot looked
like the Grinch's sled. We had stole so many
shit, bought so much shit on credit cards. He
thought he was like, yeah, it's just. in heaven
and uh i put some new clothes on them i hooked
him up with a bunch of cds and and put a gave
him a room in my cousin's house where we were
all living and uh we basically started to spitball
and talk about putting a group together and he
loved the irish thing that i was talking about
and he loved the logos that i was doing i was
always like doing a little graphic art and graffiti
and um before long we put a group together before
long he wrote three hits on a demo we got signed
at tommy boy records and we were off to the races
and uh It was fun. Then it was fun with problems.
And then it was just problems, just like my drinking
and using was. And when it was good, the first
album was great. We had great times. I got to
see the world. We all got to see the world. We
all got rich overnight. We all got semi -famous
or celebrity status overnight. We made a big
impact. And it was good. And then the second
album came out. It didn't live up to the... expected
success it was supposed to be bigger than the
first album and it was not i think some of that
was conscientious choices that everlast made
not to do a pop sellout song to you know retouch
to the jump around thing and he did a he did
the album he he wanted to write and he was the
writer so it was up to him and we supported that
there was no i remember there was debates with
we would take meetings and like we don't hear
like a clear breakaway radio hit and he was dead
sent against doing that because it was at that
time for white guys to be in hip hop and be respected
you had to stay away from selling out you know
that was like the biggest thing you could the
worst mistake you could make was to do like a
taco bell commercial or uh just sell out and
he was like i'm not selling out like that so
he just made it he made a good record the second
record was cool and but it didn't do the numbers
and by the third one we're all pointing at each
other we're all going different directions we
all are growing at different paces and we were
all kind of like just not feeling each other
and he tried to put Two other dudes that we grew
up with, per se, in the group. And it was like
two different groups. It might as well have been
called Neverlast with Friends, the third album.
And it's a highly regarded record amongst a lot
of House of Pain fans. I don't love it because
there's too much animosity associated with it.
But I understand it is a good hip -hop record.
It's just not a House of Pain record, as far
as I'm concerned, because there was very little
of my anything in there. And in order to be House
of Pain, it's got to be the both of us. That
was that. We broke up. We didn't talk to each
other for about a decade. He went on to get Grammys
and sell a million records. Lethal went on to
producing some Limp Bizkit and joining the group
and selling millions of records. had no B plan
and just started to do drugs to make it all go
away. So at the end of a couple, about four years
of downward spiral, losing the house, the cars,
all of the trappings of a successful rap career,
I ended up couch surfing, you know, at a girlfriend's
house. I was living in an apartment, small apartment
with a girlfriend, strung out on methamphetamines.
And it was... One day on Ventura Boulevard in
the valley that I ran into a guy that I knew
was sober and he said, you don't look so good.
I said, I don't feel so good. Are you still going
to those meetings? He said he was. And I said,
when can we go? He said, how about tonight? I
took him up on it and it was a good run. I'll
spare you the long story, but first year I did
everything I was asked to do. I stayed sober
the full year, could not believe it. Life started
giving me good breaks again. Year two, I made
a solo record and got paid handsomely for it.
Year three, the label falls apart. I spent all
that money and I started to get the buckets.
And I decided that, you know what, meth had ruined
my life, but maybe drinking was still something
I could do since I had learned so much about
myself in those three and a half years of sobriety.
And so I decided to test it. The program I worked,
the 12 Steps, says if you don't think you're
an alcoholic to your inner core, go test it.
Go try some controlled drinking. So I thought,
yeah, I'll take them up on that. And I did, and
it lasted about 72 hours before I was right back
on methamphetamines. And I ended up going on
a three -year death march. When it was all said
and done, I had a warrant for my arrest. My car
had been impounded and sold at auction. My teeth
were falling out of my mouth, and I was living
on a warehouse couch. in Hollywood and hopeless
and sick and tired of being sick and tired, homicidal
and suicidal. And I tried to go back and forth
through the program. It just, I couldn't hear
it anymore. My head was so clouded with drugs
and upset and depression. And finally, I just
got a window of opportunity to take another meeting.
I don't know why this one worked, but I felt
that if I didn't go to this meeting, it would
be pretty much the last chance. So I went to
the meeting and I, For the first time, I got
willing again. I thought I was before. And that,
like I said, is this 15th. It'll be 17 years
ago that that happened. This time, I didn't want
my old life back. I wanted a chance at a new
life. I think the first sobriety, I thought if
I was a good boy, God would give me my old life
back, which would have been that hip -hop career
and the Ferrari and the big house and all that
shit. And this time, I just wanted a chance at
a new life. And that's what I've been working
on ever since. It hasn't been perfect. Life,
life. It's been a lot of very high highs, but
there's been a lot of low lows. You know, I've
had businesses in between. I've had businesses
go bad. I've been sued. I've been fucked over.
I may have fucked people over. I'm sure I did
in some capacity throughout these 17 years. I
was happily married. Then I got divorced. It
wasn't on my, it wasn't what I was looking for.
And a lot of, you know, just life on life's terms
is this way, you know. But me staying sober and
me doing the work, which is the 12 steps, keeps
me balanced and it keeps me prepared. And it's
nothing that life can throw at me so far. And
it's through a lot of me that, you know, I just
deal with it one day at a time. And I take it
as it comes. And I find myself in the center
of a pack of people who are all doing what I'm
doing. They're doing the impossible. They're
working every day on doing what they need to
do to be spiritually fit to walk through life
on life's term with grace and dignity. And so
by the men and women that have come before me
and the people that I help that are after us,
my deal is to always be of service. We're just
going back to the height. I don't want to drag
you through the whole House of Pain story. But
one thing is this, you know, such again, another
comment on it. I've done almost 600 episodes
now. And so there's some very resounding themes
that come out of it. And there's always this
kind of reoccurring thing of what you think will
fill that void, what we'll think, you know, will
give you that acceptance or that self -esteem,
especially when it's external. Getting to that
pinnacle and still being unhappy. And one of
the guys became a friend, Josh Brolin. I mean,
he talks about his addiction and the steps that
absolutely work for him. And he attends his meetings,
has funds with his meetings. But so there you
are, you got this absolutely huge album. You
were talking about traveling and Ferraris. Was
there any point where you felt fulfilled or were
you always kind of chasing that even if it was
subconscious? Yeah, no, there was a few times,
man. They were very... Few and far between and
similar to smoking crack. And I didn't smoke
a lot of crack, but I have tried crack and crack.
Unfortunately, the first hit is the one, you
know, and everything after that is chasing this
thing that just, it'll never feel that good again
until you get off of it for enough time and then
retry it again. And then the first, there were
times where I thought if life just stayed this
way, it would be euphoric. The right amount of
money, the right amount of things. I refer to
that thing you're talking about as that God -shaped
hole. And no matter what I throw down it, don't
fix it. And there's a million isms. If I've watched
people, they get sober from drinking and using,
then they start gambling and sex addiction. Or
there's a million different, you know, things
that you shopping, eating. Just people, we throw
these things to try to make us feel better. I've
also heard it described that somebody said, hey,
man, I never lost anybody from experiencing the
fear, but I've watched so many people die trying
to avoid the feelings and not deal with those
things. And it really comes down to that. That's
why being spiritually fit in recovery is everything,
because that's what I did. Drinking was my solution.
Using was my solution. My problem was life on
life's terms. If I could just have a little bit
more of this or you could just let me get paid
for this forever. Or if I could just have this
amount of success, every record, you know, it
was all conditional. If I could just have these
cars, you know, I'd be good. And yeah, there's
never you get those cars and you still needed
two motorcycles and a jet ski. It just never
ends. And so it's an inside job. Anybody who's
doing recovery will tell you it's an inside job.
It's like the work has to come from inside. The
outside stuff is great. And I'll always have
a thing for shiny things. I'm just not willing
to go to the lace of insanity, what I used to,
to have those things. And they don't define me
as much as they did before. I'm going to be lying
to tell you that I don't like things. But they
change. As I grow and as years go by, I need
those things less and less to really make me
feel good. You know, they're more utilitarian
at this point. But if I have to have them or
if I want to have them, then I insist on having
the ones that I want or the best. So I have less
of the things that I'm interested in. But the
ones that I do have, I try to make sure that
they are the ones. But yes, you're absolutely
right. And that was another appeal to hip hop.
I mean, to be outwardly like gratuitously. showing
the wealth on the outside i mean everything is
about appearance right like the all of the sneakers
had to be top -notch the jewelry had to be truck
it had to be oversized the everything was like
an extension of your wealth and that it's a tricky
one man you know because that kind of wealth
is like i see it now in like youtube stars or
tiktokers or whatever they're making ridiculous
amount of money But a lot of rappers never, especially
in the golden era, like, you know, you're looking
at rappers that got big chains, but that might
be the extent of their wealth, you know, hung
up in a chain in the car. And if you look at
their career span and the records, the numbers
that they sold, they're not what people are expected
to sell nowadays. Right. You know, some of your
favorite hip hop acts maybe only went in gold,
which is a million records. Like, how long can
you live? off 80s record where you sold the million
records in the 80s and you're not touring and
because there's no real money for you to tour
where do you get money like that anymore and
that was that was no different from us you know
i got a million 1 .25 million dollar t -shirt
deal our first album which was not that had to
be nothing had to be recouped so it was like
straight money into the bank um so i made you
know i got an 800 000 advance on on allowing
a company to license the logo from me and you
know it yeah it fixes you at 20 something that
kind of money sure does but it's temporary and
then spending it like it was going to keep coming
every year was my my mistake because it didn't
come every year. It lasted about two years on
an upward trajectory and then it just drops off
a cliff. And the cliff is the part that you're
like, oh shit, not me. How could this be? And
then watch Cypress Hill keep going on. And I'm
sure they had bumps in the road, but visually,
if you look at the arc, it's been nice. It's
been kind of like a steady progression to the
top. And then they've kind of just been on a
cruise, you know, at cruising altitude for the
better. And I'm sure there's a million things
that I didn't see, you know, behind. Everybody
has that. But House of Pants, you can look and
it goes straight up and it goes and it comes
crashing right down. And some of that is self
-imposed and self -inflicted, you know, but definitely
is not great for the psyche. And it's definitely
not good for an immature alcoholic addict with
no real. business acumen and no real uh with
a learning disability and not just and a lot
of fear you know uh you you you said something
that stuck out to me you said how many episodes
600 uh 600 yeah yeah that's a lot of episodes
and you can start to see obviously way before
600 but you will see you start to see uh you
know anomalies right you start to hear a lot
of commonalities and you're like wow you have
a really good sample size to see you know and
and um you know looking back i see a lot of things
like that too and i forget where i was just going
with that because my dog he loves to be in my
lap i just adopted this dog two weeks ago and
he is the most loving creature i've ever met
but i'm sitting on the bench and he just almost
fell off um You start to see things, and I like
that you have that kind of sample size to see
those things. We were talking about God -shaped
holes, and that's a very real thing for people
who suffer from the thing I suffer from. And
it's the thinking. My perception is skewed. What
I'm looking at is what I'm looking through, and
what I'm looking through is distorted. It's not
what I was trying to say because I forgot what
I was trying to say, but it dovetails nice into
what I'm going to say. Because even at 17 years,
I still need you to tell me if I'm on point,
if I'm where I should be. And I can't just run
it by somebody who's like my buddy, who's not
going to tell me the truth or he's just not going
to hurt my feelings. So I have to really stay
connected to the... to the people that are walking
the path with me. And I run stuff by people and
I'm able to articulate better because I can't
see things that you can see that I'm heading
straight for at full speed. And when I get enough
trust and faith that there's something out there
that also is looking out for me, as long as I'm
doing what I'm supposed to be doing, then it
really, it puts me in a center where I feel I
belong. It connects me to God in that way that
I don't feel any other way. So I believe in God
and it's a big part of my story as I grew and
grow. But I feel at most when me and you and
you don't even have to be suffering from the
same thing that I do, which is the mental affliction
of alcoholism and using. But I am able to find.
When I talk about this and when I discuss it
with other alcoholics, addicts or people like
yourself, I don't know your story in that way.
But then I feel the hand of God in this conversation
and a power greater than ourselves because me
and you together is a power greater than just
me. Right. And so as I force multiply with people
in the struggle that are working on the solution,
that's powerful stuff. And I have a better chance
when I have the hive mind in this way to keep
me centered. So anybody out there that's trying
to do this alone, good luck. It's a tough one.
And everything I have that's good has come out
of my sobriety. And it's contingent on my spiritual
maintenance one day at a time. I don't think
that was even what I was trying to tell you about
House of Pain. I can, anything you want to know
about House of Pain is great. I can fill in the
blanks, but yeah, I don't, you know, kind of
dovetail when my dog fell off. Poor guy, he was
hanging on too. He didn't fall, but he was hanging
on to his two things when I caught up. Anyway,
I hope any of that made sense. No, it did. But
then also you hit on something that's very pertinent
to a lot of people listening. The worst person
to ask if you're doing well when you're a firefighter
is another firefighter, especially if they're
on your crew in your station, because you're
getting your asses handed to you shift after
shift after shift. You're seeing the things that
we see. You're sleep deprived. You're dealing
with some of the politics in the organization
that you work for. And so this is something that's
emerged. Again, we talk about commonalities.
The people outside the bubble are the people
that are. So the ones that you trust. So whether
it's a family member, whether it's a close friend
who's not in your circle, someone you came up
with who isn't in the house of pain or touring
with you. And that's such an important kind of
perspective. Because just like you said, and
I've had that too, where I've been low as far
as never so much addiction, but definitely depressive
episodes, is you hit the nail on the head. I've
talked about this. It's like you're underwater.
You're not seeing and feeling clearly. I always
tell people my adrenal glands must have been
pooped out years ago because I don't have feelings.
I don't have extremes. But my wife, my son, those
are some of the best people for me to ask, hey,
how am I doing through your eyes? Yeah, I get
it. Listen, my hat's off to you. My heart's with
you. Anybody who's a first responder in that
line of work is really my heroes. We have a guy.
Tim, who's on my board of directors at the museum,
who is at Fire Station 3, which is in the neighborhood
of the Outsiders House. He's now moved midtown
by the Harley -Davidson dealership. But I've
been on ride -alongs with both LAPD and TPD and
Tulsa Fire Department. And you see a couple hour
slice to what your day looks like. It is completely
different than what you would see on television,
where you're like, oh, these good -looking fire
guys. They're eating. They've got good recipes
at this firehouse. They're working out and they're
doing it like, yeah, that may be a small part
of it. But the stuff that you have to deal with,
it's more than just putting out fires. It's dealing
with car accidents, decapitation, shootings,
stabbings, muggings, heroin addicts, methamphetamine
addicts, just everything under the sun. You probably
arrive there half the time way before the cops
get there and have to sort everything out or
stabilize somebody. the ambulance gets there
or to the cops and the ambulance or whatever
whatever it needs to be done and it's put a lot
of clarity on what you guys do worldwide but
and empathy as well man because that's a tough
job man and and you have to you you really have
to have like a really good i'm i'm guessing that
you have to have some type of fucking stability
and some type of like balance because you come
into contact with a lot of stuff or you become
completely numb and that's no good either. You
don't want to be so desensitized to that that
you can't, nothing, you know, that's also not
so good. But my hat's off, literally a figure
to lead to you, first responders, anybody who
does that line of work because you're underpaid,
underappreciated, and definitely there's no...
There's nothing without you guys. And, you know,
so, yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, I think, firstly,
thank you. But I think you're right. And it's
funny, I actually went back through your Instagram
and saw that you had a fire right next to one
of the buildings that we're going to talk about
in a minute. And they responded there. So there's
that other tie -in. The person who connected
us, NOCO, law enforcement, LAN, NYPD. So another
tie -in for our professions with you. So I would
love to kind of hear. Firstly, what worked for
you that last time? Because I think that's very
important. And I know you felt a calling to go
to the meeting, the steps themselves have worked,
but what was it that worked there? And then walk
me through the journey that ultimately took you
to a three -day layover in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Right.
So I don't know why the time I got sober 17 years
ago was different than the other times I had
tried as I relapsed with three and a half years.
Close to three and a half years, the first time
I got sober, I made a conscious choice to leave
sobriety because I thought I could control drinking
and that I just would stay away from the drugs
that were hard. And that I could clearly say
that I could admit that they had destroyed, you
know, me in that moment. And so I tried to come
back and forth for those three years. You know,
sometimes I get a week sober. Sometimes I get
close to a month. Maybe I think I even got a
month chip. But something inevitably would always
bring me back out where there was a. some kind
of, there's always drama and tragedy in anytime
you're going in and out. So that could look like
a cell phone bill. My cell phone would get disconnected
and I'd get the buckets. And I'm just like, ah,
fuck it. I'm not, I can't. And I'd get high.
And I try to figure a lot of stuff out while
I was high. Methamphetamine for a guy who has
a scatterbrain and ADD and, and really hard to
focus gives me complete laser -like focus. And
I felt like by doing those drugs, that drug that
I was helping myself and solving a problem, even
if it was, costing me mentally and physically
uh i thought i could get ahead if i could just
do this and the deal i would make myself was
like i'll just do this for another week clean
up my house i mean if i look around my house
right now it's a nightmare i live at the corner
unit at a historic hotel in the in the What do
you call windows? I don't know. Anyway, a beautiful
spot. But my shit looks like my desktop on my
laptop, which is like shit all over the place
because I'm constantly creating, juggling. I'm
going back and forth to the museum. So I thought
if I could just do this drug that would help
me clean up my own stuff, organize my bills,
all of the housekeeping stuff, right? All of
the clerical shit that I'm terrible at, that
it would be worth it. And then I would just pull.
the ripcord and get out get off the drug and
then i would then get clean it never works that
way so it was always one more week one more weekend
one more month and then i'll get my shit together
but the time that i got sober this time i was
literally out of any options i was dying inside
and i literally was suicidal and homicidal homicidal
because i was kind of staying also at a apartment
a block away and a lady that lived lower than
us was giving us problems and And that's a whole
other long story. And I literally was like plotting
her demise. And then there was part of me that
was just like, I just should kill myself because
this is just going to. I was afraid that I wasn't
going to die anytime soon by doing the drugs,
that I was going to live to be 90 on my knees.
And that was even worse than dying. And this
guy called me in the right time. And my mindset
was just like, fuck it, let's go. And I went
and I in that moment, I just said, I'm going
to stay willing. no matter what. And there's
been a lot of no matter what's that have come
up and I just keep on going. So that's that.
I don't have a clear, there wasn't like a, you
know, usually good sobriety starts with the God
help me prayer. That's that simple. And I'm sure
I said, God helped me in that, that thing because
I needed it. And then what happens is as I get
clean, I take an old idea, which is La Coconostra
and I put it back together. La Coconostra was
something that, in a nutshell, the DJ from House
of Pain, we remained friends while me and Everlast
remained estranged at that time. And he had a
label deal at Geffen and he was looking for acts.
And I used to meet a lot of people because I
was always outgoing and on the scene. And I met
a kid from Boston named Slane who was an incredible
talent. And he reminded me of what I first saw
when I saw Everlast doing his thing. I was like,
this guy is like a level above. the levels that
we know in our in our scene and I thought I'd
bring him to Lethal to make a record and I also
had met another kid from the Bronx and then Lethal
was working with another rapper and we decided
instead of making three records with three solo
artists maybe we could put the three of those
guys together and make one record and Two of
them ended up staying in that group. We started
adding people to it. They asked me if I would
join as like the hype man and the creative director
since I had like, you know, come up with the
name and the logo. And I was like, absolutely.
And Lethal would become the DJ. And then we recruited
Ill Bill from Nonfiction, who was a fan of his
work as well. And in the 11th hour on Facebook,
Everlast reached out to me the first time in
a decade saying, I love your new group. I want
to get down with it. And I thought, OK, well,
shit, this is weird. But I was, you know, I was
like, OK, you know, part of me was the validation
that he'd just come out of the blue, you know,
wanted to be down with it. And part of me was
a little worried, you know, that what was what
is the true cost of this thing? Because I had
been burned by him before as far as, you know,
him walking away from a group and leaving me
high and dry and not being concerned with whatever
became of my life after he walked out, knowing
that it would cost me. And all of us, really.
He didn't seem to care about that. So I was,
you know, like I felt like the prodigal son was
trying to come home. And I said, yeah, I'd love
to do it. We'd love to do a song with you. He
goes, no, I want to join the group. So I asked
Bill and he was he was he was like on the fence,
too. He was like, well, fuck it. The guy can
write hits. So let's do it. So we made the deal
and he came in the group and we started touring
and. The first tour we went on, we were an opening
act for the Cottonmouth Kings. We were signed
to the same label that we ended up signing to.
And it ended us up on a three day layover. We
played a show here at the Canes Ballroom, which
is a historic old school cowboy, Western swing
dancing, legendary spot. The Sex Pistols played
here and everybody under the sun, but then notably
the Sex Pistols second to last show ever in the
U .S. on their first and only tour of the U .S.
You know, on the original, It brought me here.
And I realized when I was here that my favorite
movie and book was filmed and written here, which
was The Outsiders. And so on my day off, I ended
up hiring a cab to take me around looking for
these locations. And I was able to find the drive
-in from the movie, the park from the movie.
And by finding the park, I found the house. And
it was literally, to me, at the time, I may have
had five years sober. I had just bought a new
point -and -click camera. And I was highly caffeinated,
as always. And I thought, this is the greatest
thing since sliced bread. Tulsa looked like Tulsa
looked in the movie, which was filmed in 82,
but was supposed to be portraying 67. And it
was literally like, I might as well have been
on the back lot of Universal Studios to a set
that was just still up from the 80s. Because
it was so realistic and so just like it was in
the movies. I thought almost I died and went
to heaven. And by the time I get to the house
and start taking photos, I look down and there's
a for sale sign. So when I get back to the hotel,
I look it up and they want $42 ,000 for that
house. I was shocked. One, I was shocked that
it was still on earth. Two, I was shocked that
it was for sale. And three, how cheap it was.
Because in LA, you couldn't buy a house for $42
,000 since, I don't know, the 30s, 40s, the 50s.
Who knows? A long time is all I'm trying to say.
And as much as I was intrigued by it, I thought,
man, I don't know anything about Tulsa and I
have no business. I was probably worth at best
at that time, maybe $30 ,000. So I would have
had to come up with another $12 ,000 just to
buy the house. And although it would have been
a smart investment because it was a house, I
just didn't know anything about Tulsa. And I
lived in Beverly Hills, California in a nice
little apartment. So I thought. Be careful, Danny.
What ends up happening, I've become obsessed
with the place. I start doing a lot of urban
exploring on that tour, which was a new concept.
The convergence of having a smartphone, a tour
bus with Internet access and Google became like
a way for me to use that tour bus because I was
the only dude sober on that tour. So every time
we'd pull into town, they were heading for the
hotel to sleep it off. And I was heading out.
to find any type of point of interest from anything
that was pop culture, you know, pop culturally
relevant to me. So if I was in Minneapolis, I'm
looking for Purple Rain, you know, I'm looking
for locations from Purple Rain or Mary Tyler
Moore Show or whatever. If I'm in Atlanta, I'm
looking for the place that the Sex Pistols played
on that first tour. I'm looking for anything
that would have been, you know, something that
I could take an old photo. off the internet and
then mash it with a new photo and put that online.
And in doing so, this is how I meet Knocko Nolan,
the former NYPD, now currently LAPD detective.
And we hit it off like that. We start this thing
called Delta Bravo Urban Exploration Team. And
in a nutshell, all we are is just self -appointed
pop culture detectives. Anything that strikes
my interest from the past. I'll freeze frame
it. I'll take a screen grab of it. And I'll go
now, where was this baseball field from, from
the bad news bears? Or where was this dugout
from fast times at Ridgemont high or where, whatever
your thing is, album covers, where's the LL Cool
J album cover where he's on his Jaguar leaning
on the school fence. And I found out it was in
St. Albans Queens at his high school. And I went
back to that high school when I was in New York
and I matched up the photo and I took the exact
photo. And then I put. I superimpose them together
in Photoshop and I post them online for fun.
And I started to attract a lot of people like
minded. And we we still do it. It's still it's
still a real thing on Facebook. And it's got
I'm going to guess, you know, a couple hundred
members, but a couple I say 20 people religiously
constantly always. producing content looking
for locations it was just a fun clean hobby that
anybody could basically do there's no buy -in
there's no it's not like you have to have anything
to qualify or to be in the team you just say
you're in and you post the photos and you tag
them with the tag and you're done and what happens
is it takes me across the U .S. because at the
time we you know we did La Coca Nostra for a
couple years and then it kind of fizzled out
for a million different reasons And I was just
talking about this yesterday, man. I said, you
know what, if I'm going to be time, if I'm going
to be cash poor, then I can look at it as also
being time rich. And I said, you know, I barely
have enough to get by, but I have all this free
time and I can either sit around and complain
that I don't have any opportunities to make money
right now, or I can use this downtime to do something
that I'm passionate about and that I love and
just take a break and do my thing. And so what
I did was just that. I started to just scratch
up enough gas money. And enough, you know, the
files of the things I was looking for. And my
wife would be at work and I would just go out
on the day. Sometimes I'd grab Knuckle on his
days off. Sometimes I'd grab other people. A
lot of times I went alone because everybody actually
was actually working a real job. And I started
to explore all of the things that were like,
you know, of interest to me. million things that
weren't of interest that were maybe interesting
to not go or other people and then it became
this like lifelong passionate uh project that
we do there's no end to it there's no end game
to it it's really to experience life and to enjoy
life and to kind of get a uh an end to like where
was that filmed where was that shot taken now
we know and now it's shared collective information
for other fans to go see and what happened is
i kept bringing me through tulsa oklahoma i realized
that i didn't have to fly anywhere i could drive
this old cop car that i bought uh i bought a
retired uh you could do this in the states you
could once they get rid of the old fleet they
can they sell it at auction and you can get a
cheap uh all blacked out unmarked cop car and
driving around. And people don't know, at the
time, people didn't know if you were really a
cop or not, which makes great for exploring because
nobody wants to mess with you when you're at
locations. And when I stayed at the chief hotels
that I stayed at, nobody messed with my car because
they didn't know if it was a cop car or not.
And I started to just go across the U .S. a lot
of times by myself. And I would always make it
to Tulsa. So it was a two -day trip from L .A.
And I would always look at this house. And by
five years of doing this, I started to get super
worried. I was worried and rightfully so that
the Habitat for Humanity, which is an organization
that builds affordable houses in bad neighborhoods
for people who wouldn't qualify for normal loans.
And I'm a fan of what they do per se, but I wasn't
going to be a fan if they tore down the Outsiders
house and they were going block for block. And
every year there would be another block torn
out. and new homes put in. And they were about
a block away from the outsider's house when I
thought, no, no, no, no, no. This is not going
to be good. They're going to mess around and
tear this house down and not even know that it's
an important piece of American history. And so
that's when I started to get scared. And I got
scared enough to find out who owned it. And I
had a buddy of mine do the deal. And we ended
up making a deal. I ended up buying the house
for $15 ,000. It's a steal. But on the same token,
when I got to the house, because I bought it
sight unseen, when I finally drove back out to
take possession of the house, it was in such
bad shape that everybody else told me, I don't
know that it's savable. You might have just bought
something that's a teardown, dude. And I didn't
have any more money to spend. I was in it for
20 grand at the time. I paid 15 for the house
and I paid 5 ,000 for the tenants who were eight
months behind in rent to leave and get to another
spot, which was awesome as I look back. I'm not
trying to pat myself on the back, but there are
many times where I was faux homeless and had
no money and nobody offered me five grand to
fuck off and go somewhere else. So God bless.
But and then I, you know, I attribute again to
my sobriety as a six foot six alpha male. I know
nothing about restoring homes, nothing. And it's
hard for me to say I need help, you know, but
I figured out that, you know, I've been afraid
of what people think of me for so long and especially.
To not know with such a stigma. How the fuck
do you not know how to do that? But I had to
just get honest and say, I don't know the first
thing about this. What I'm passionate about is
the legacy, the story, and the house. But I don't
know how to restore this house. If you're interested,
could you help me? And I asked for help. And
shockingly enough, which seems to be the thing,
if you ask for help, don't be surprised if the
help shows up. And the help is just that. And
little by little, this community surrounded me.
Whether it was gifts in kind, meaning they'd
say, hey, man, that roof looks terrible. You
want us to, we're a shingle company. We'll come
out and fix the shingles. Or that thing is leaking
into your fireplace. There was a chimney and
it was leaking into the wood. They're like, hey,
you need to. Flash that. I don't know what flash
that meant. You know, they knew what it meant.
They'd come and flash the thing. And then there
was a million little things like that. People
would say, hey, man, the grass is like atrocious.
It's up to your waist. After work, me and my
daughter will come and we'll mow your lawn. I'm
like, who does that? Like, this is something
that I don't know what happened in L .A. or New
York. And this is just being honest. But in Tulsa,
Oklahoma, they cared. And little by little, we
started to repair that house and we got it back.
stabilized, and then the job was to go through
it and make it look like it did in the movie.
Simultaneously, I'm going out trying to collect
everything under the sun that pertains to the
movie The Outsiders. At the time, I had one poster
when I bought the house. I'm proud to say we
have the largest collection of Outsiders movie
memorabilia, screen -worn wardrobe, and the largest
Outsiders book collection known to man here in
Tulsa, Oklahoma at the Outsiders House Museum.
And it was really just a passion project that...
If I wrote it and you read it, you'd think I
was bullshitting. And this is the way life is.
And it would take me another two hours to unpack
all the things that happened. But I can tell
you this. And I tell this to school children.
I get asked to speak a lot because The Outsiders
is mostly required reading for seventh graders.
And they want me to come out and talk to the
kids. And I always tell them who I am. I feel
like they're old enough to understand that I'm
damaged goods that is now. found a way out. And
what I do tell them is this. I tell them that
a good education, a good game plan, and the financials
in order, when you embark on a project like this,
that sometimes you're going to have no real money,
no real plan, but you're going to feel passionately
about it. And instinctually, you're going to
know that this is something for you. Jump in
and do it anyway. The worst thing that happens
is you fail and you learn. The best thing that
happens, what happened for me was that we did
the impossible. I had no real money after what
I put to get in the door. The place was in a
hundred times worse condition than I assumed
it was in because I had saw it online on Zillow
when they were trying to sell it five years prior.
And I had nothing to show if I was going to make
a museum anyway, except for one poster. And in
the end of three and a half years, I had everything
I wanted and then some because. it's amazing
what we can do when you're dedicated and you're
passionate about it. And so I, if it's one kid
that needs to hear that, so be it. You know what
I mean? Because I, I need to know that. And,
you know, I don't know how much you know about
the author, but I'll just tell you that she wrote
the outsiders when she was 15 and a half, she
was failing English and got a D plus in creative
writing or got a D plus in English and failed.
Creative writing. One or the other. That's very
low marks for a student to write an international
classic. It has never been out of print in 54
years. And I'm told it sold more on the 50th
anniversary than all the years combined. I don't
know how that works, but that's the story. So
we're sticking to it. She's still alive. She's
the number one supporter of the museum financially
and with donations of collectibles. It's amazing
what happens when you get down and roll up your
sleeves and get on into it. Again, I have a ninth
grade education. I have no idea on how to restore
homes. But people, when I talked about what I
wanted to do, they heard my plea because they
knew I was coming from the heart and speaking
of their heart, not from head to head. That I
didn't have this budget. I was using that I didn't
have a plan for how it was going to happen. I
just said, hey, I love this book. I love this
movie. And I think it would be a shame if this
house gets erased off of the earth. I think we
can do something better with it and turn it into
a museum and that fans from around the world
can come see what this little girl at 15 and
a half did by writing her book and the effect
that it had on all of us. And people said, fuck
yeah, I understand it. I'm going to help you.
And everybody from Jack White donated 30 grand.
When I ran into Billy Idol, he was playing here.
As a kid, young kid, Billy Idol was my everything.
I wanted to be Billy Idol so bad it hurt. I went
to see Billy. He said, come on back. Come in
the dressing room. He said, how's the house?
I said, the house? He said, the outsider's house,
mate. I said, you know about the house? How do
you know about the house? He's like, come on,
man. I said, he said, I heard Jack gave you 30
grand. I said, yeah. I go, damn, so you do know
about the house. He goes, I'd like to give you
something, too. I go, you would? He goes, yeah,
not 30 grand, but I'm going to give you something.
So he gave me a nice little check. I tell you
that to tell you, man, my mind explodes when
there's a million little stories like this. But
the fact that like the 13 year old me who went
to see The Outsiders and fell in love with this
movie because I saw my story being told for the
first time on screen in a different era, in a
different neighborhood, in different, you know,
aesthetics, but the same feelings of disconnecting,
finding your tribe outside of the house that
you didn't find at home and sticking together
at all costs. And to think that 30 years later
or 35 years later that I would end up. buying
the house from the movie and that Billy Idol
would give me a check and the author would give
me $35 ,000 and some stuff from her personal
collection. And her friendship is what means
more to me than all of that. And there's a hundred,
if not a thousand stories, just like it from
anonymous people that did even more miraculous
stuff, but I'd be here all day. But the takeaway
from all of this is, is that, you know, I saw
an opportunity that maybe nobody else saw at
the time. I felt very strongly about it, and
I was willing to roll the dice because what did
I have to lose at that point? It was already
close to being out of money, but greater than
being out of money would have been to save what
little money I had and then watch that house
get destroyed. And without a plan and without
a budget. I was able to ask for help and the
help showed up. And that's powerful stuff for
me, man. I'm not going to say that that's going
to happen in every project I do or any project
that you may do or may never happen. But it has
happened. And every time I share the story, people
say, yeah, I've had a similar situation that
happened. Or this is good information. Maybe
it gives somebody the confidence to try something.
Because, again, what's the worst that could happen?
So I had a little less, you know, 20 grand less
than I had when I started. which I can make that
up somehow. Eventually it's not going to kill
me. And I would have had a good lesson of, Hey
man, next time you need this, that, and the third,
but it worked out the way it worked out better
than I could have ever imagined. And it's given
me, it's fulfilled me in a way that the house
of pain could have never done. And I'll end with
this, you know, being sober. When you work a
program, the 12 step program, the last three
steps are about giving back. It's trust God,
clean house. work with others. And I think that
my higher power, who I choose to call God, understood
that I wasn't going to do the kind of service
that I equate service in being, but that I could
be a very good service to the community at large
here by doing the Outsiders House Museum and
making sure that I spend every day making sure
that that museum stays open, that it stays constantly
promoted in the right way, and that I actively
collect so that I can share a shared experience
of her story, the story of Tulsa surrounding
me and putting me up on high and helping me complete
this. And what that looks like when you're sober,
when you're passionate, and when you're humble
to ask for help, great things can happen. At
least for a guy like me who was suffering from
alcoholism and drug addiction and a million other
things. that it's pretty miraculous so I think
it's a it's a for me it's a redemption story
my own story is a redemption story and I think
there's hope in my story when I talk to other
people about it and they feel that and it inspires
people to maybe do stuff similar or just a good
takeaway of like you know everybody likes to
see a feel -good story and this is the feel -good
story of the last few years in Tulsa you know
so it's been good I've been here for five years
I'm never leaving And I feel like the smartest
guy who ever left Los Angeles. And my biggest
fear is coming here that you can stand still
in Los Angeles and the world will come to you
because we have such great circulation of people
traveling to see Los Angeles. But ironically
enough, every month, if not, you know, two or
three, five people from my past or people that
I always wanted to meet are passing through or
working here. playing here or whatever. So every
month I've got somebody, I got somebody right
now from LA who's visiting for the first time,
just based off of my photos who I knew. And I've
been taking him around and I have a band. You
may know, and they might, I think it's secret
that they're here, but your podcast, the Dropkick
Murphys are here recording at the church studios
for a week. And I'm talking to Ken Casey. And
I'm going to show him around and give him the
tour. And every month it's something like that.
Someone's playing Kane's Ballroom. Someone's
playing the BOK Center. Someone's coming from
East Coast to West Coast, driving through, and
they want to see Tulsa. And so I've been blessed
to have the people in my life coming through
and all kinds of people that I never thought
would make it to Tulsa coming through. And it's
just been a, again, sometimes I got to pinch
myself that this has all happened. It gets real
because now I got to make sure not to fuck it
all up. You know, the pressure's on. Well, I
think that's such a powerful story to hear and
especially powerful. Like a lot of people have
kind of rebirth stories and they themselves are
incredible. But not a lot of people have. I had
achieved everything that you're told on television
will make you happy. story a contrasting story
i had the fame the cars the girls i had all this
stuff i was adored i was on mtv when it played
music for example a long time ago and then you
have this and then what truly brought you happiness
was and you touched on the word tribe finding
that tribe finding that purpose seeing that community
does exist and people do give a shit They just
need to be led and be given a task. And that's
what I've seen over and over again. The narrative
of people are horrible. Yes, there are some shitbags
in the world. There's no question. But I think
ultimately people are good. But right now, I
mean, without getting political, there's very
little leadership from left, right, whatever.
These people are not our role models by any means.
especially in the community when in your own
town you could hands you know you can literally
touch a project that you see then makes a difference
that not only is bonding but i think it's healing
and over and over again the people that come
out of whatever dark place they were in that
one of the most healing elements is altruism
is being able to give back and that's the true
purpose i think that ultimately heals so many
people that were in pain You're absolutely right.
And you know what? It's like doing a concert.
If you're at a show and the crowd's all got their
iPhones in your face and they're standing still,
it's a tough hour and change, right? But if the
crowd is wilding out and they're getting into
it, it's reciprocal energy. So what I give at
the house has been given back to me in double,
triple, whatever. And then the word that you
also touched on, which is super important to
me, and I realized it when I had been here for
a couple of years, I go, I finally have a purpose,
like a true purpose. I didn't have a purpose.
My purpose had been served the second Eric said
I'm going to Everlast was like, let's make the
band. He took the wheel from there. I had done
the logo, the style of it, the name of it was
all mine and the Irish centric shit was who I
was. But after that, it was like I was in a car
while he was driving and when he wanted to stop
and pull over. So my purpose was just to do what
he said to keep this thing going. And when it
was all said and done, I couldn't recreate the
magic without him. And I was left really on the
side of the road, not knowing what to do. And
that's a real powerless, like sad, like state
of mind to be in where you feel like. You know,
for the rest of my life and everybody expects
me to go make a rap record or whatever, whatever.
So it took me a long time to come out the other
side of that to have a real purpose. And my purpose
is this is like I said, that every day that the
house is not open. is a in my book a day that
could be better because we we do friday saturday
and sunday we're open to the public we do monday
through thursday for private tours or school
tours but i also do a 12 -step meeting at the
house uh we do events at the house and i just
got an order today somebody wants to do a wedding
at the house which is great i'm looking forward
to but i want to use i use the the house as a
community property and i feel like the many events
we can put there the better. And it gives me
a purpose. Like I said, my purpose is to make
sure that that is maintained and in tip -top
shape and that I constantly am on the lookout
for new and exciting items that may pop up on
the market or discover other ways to, you know,
dig out collections. And yeah, I couldn't have
planned it better. And I'm glad it just happened
the way it was supposed to happen for me. And
yeah, I'm the most, I stay in gratitude every
day. There's no bad days. There's just days that
I could have done something a little bit better
or could have just went a little bit better.
But I feel good, like I said, to be on the other
side of this thing and to finally have found
my purpose, my true purpose, which is this. Well,
it's funny as well because I remember watching
the film. When I was a kid, and I'm 48 now, I
just had to help my son through his English project
about a year ago now. Well, he worked through
the book. Now, the way they analyzed it, I was
completely useless to him. Some of the questions
that they were breaking down. But, you know,
so I've had that multi -generational kind of
view with the story. Just a complete tangent
for a moment. There's a place, a concert, Welcome
to Rockville, every year. Cypress Hills actually
played a couple of times. I've seen them. The
Foo Fighters, tragically, Taylor was there. This
was a couple of years ago now. They did a set
with Billy Idol. One of the best fucking concerts
I've ever seen in my entire life. Cause, cause
Billy came on, John Travolta was backstage. He
came on to be just, just waved, but he's been
on the show too. But the, yes, yeah, he came
on. He's local. He lives here in Ocala. So yeah,
he's, you know, kind of, kind of like you are
in Tulsa as far as being invested in the community
you live in, rather than just kind of hiding
in a house. He's, he's very much so. I love everything
about John Travolta as a kid. He was the Brooklyn
archetypal character of like between Vinnie Bob
Marino and what's his name in Saturday Night
Fever, Monero, Tony Monero. I mean, he was like
a god amongst men. As a kid, I saw that movie.
My mother took me to it. And other people in
the neighborhood cursed my mother for bringing
a kid at 12 years old or 10 years old to see
the movie. But she loved that. that she's you
know she's the dance of brooklyn so that was
her era that they're portraying but yeah i didn't
know that that's listen i think if i'm not mistaken
taylor died of an overdose or drug overdose i
believe so yeah first they were talking about
um i think you know they had chest pain but i
think from what i understood what i read the
toxicology there was a whole cocktail and you
know and i know even if you had chest pain it
was probably from you know what's in your body
yeah of course and you know what that It's so
super unfortunate. I can share. We were doing
a festival. It had to be the late 90s with House
of Pain. And I don't remember where it was, but
I was standing on stage after our set to see
Alanis Morissette. And she was all the rage.
So whatever year that, you know, You Oughta Know
song came out, that was the year. Maybe 95, 94,
I don't know. And I was, you know, because I
had my laminate and we were probably coming on
after, I don't remember. But I was standing there
and it didn't take 30 seconds for me to go, who
cares about Alana Morissette? who the fuck is
this drummer and where's this guy coming from
so that's where he started originally playing
drums for her and he had fans on him and his
hair was flailing like he's riding a motorcycle
and he was just like he was killing it and i'm
a super fan of drumming if if i could do my childhood
over again i begged my mother for a drum set
my cousin had a drum set i was obsessed with
ace freely and peter crisp but i always wanted
to be a drummer and so anytime i see a band if
the drummer ain't the shit i'm out and then he
joined the food fighters which was great but
i mean that's another you know unfortunate like
he had everything he had everything and addiction
is a tricky bitch man i've watched people with
20 something years relapse uh philip seymour
hoffman i mean dude was the staple in the community
doing all the right things until you know and
i that's why i don't that's why i don't fuck
around i'm sure he didn't either that's why All
I'm guaranteed is today. You know what? And that's
the one day at a time concept. Yesterday is history.
Tomorrow is a mystery. And I love to fuck with
both. Oh, I'm not going to get all the things
I need tomorrow. Or shit, if I just would have
went left yesterday, I would have ended up where
I needed to be. I get so caught up in the before
and afters that I miss the beauty of today. And
all we have right now is today. Today I'm sober.
Today I have enough money to get through the
day. I have a beautiful little dog in my lap.
I have a refrigerator full of. food i got coffee
at the red i mean i have so many things to be
grateful hot shower good views really no complaints
i can find a lot of stuff to complain about the
the tax rate the gas prices the everything uh
but so what everybody has to deal with that shit
i i i i may sound like a you know i don't know
what i sound like but it's true man it's the
simple things now that i used to take for granted
that are everything to me and i have really no
complaints other than that it's up to me to go
out and and you know do whatever i want to do
and and and and build it into something that
i want to see it to you know if that makes sense
you know yeah absolutely though it does now i
want to ask you one question and go to some closing
questions so i can let you go but just one kind
of interesting again going going back on the
instagram a little bit i saw that one of the
people that you had visit the house was matt
dylan obviously someone that you you know related
to when you were watching the film you know 40
years prior so what was that like seeing you
know someone who you had basically been moved
by as in his performance and then what was his
perception or experience of going back into the
house that he was acting in all those years ago
right so i mean I've said it a million times
in every interview I think that they've asked.
I definitely want to be Matt Dillon so bad it
hurt. That character, Dallas Winston, is who
I try to emulate his toughness. And between him
and Ralph Macho's character, Johnny Cade, is
where the center would probably be most accurate.
I can relate to Johnny's pain and his feeling
vulnerable and emotional about it. smart enough
to hide it well like Dally did and tough enough
to, you know, to do something about it. I'd always
hoped that he would come. Early on when I first
bought the house, it was kind of a secret. And
all of a sudden I get a, because I have a blue
check on Instagram, when somebody else with a
blue check follows, it notifies you. Same with
Twitter. And all of a sudden it says, boom, boom,
like, whoa. It's like Matt Dillon's following
you. I'm like, what? I thought it can't be real,
right? But he had a blue check. And then all
of a sudden I get this text from him. He says,
listen, I heard you bought the house. Good, good
shit. Do you ever want to, if you, Susie's still
in Tulsa. And if you ever want to talk to her,
let me know. I can put you in contact. I said,
brother, you have no idea how much this means
to me. I said, I'm in touch with Susie actually.
And I said, and he said, uh in the text he said
if there's anything you ever need i said hey
first thing i want to know is uh do you still
have the the the saint christopher medallion
and the and the and the skull ring and he's like
oh shit man that's been forever i don't know
where those are but uh if i ever find them i'll
let you know and i said look we're going to do
a fundraiser i'm going to keep you abreast of
all of the shit we do i never want to lean on
you too hard so if i do Please forgive me. But
I said, you know, you have a standing invitation
to everything we do. And that was five years
ago. We've done a few events. I've invited him.
He replied back, hey, I'm on a movie right now
out in, he didn't want to call it the house that
Jack built. I think he was in Sweden or something
at the time. The following year, he was like,
it's just, I'm in Italy. He was always, it was
just the timing was never right. And then I would
send him some stuff and he just didn't respond,
which was like, all right, you know, busy guy,
get it. And then randomly. Somebody posted that
he was going to do a Q &A in Oklahoma City for
some art show, hoping that he would see the museum.
And it wasn't anybody in my camp. She's a fan
of the Outsiders and well -known amongst Outsiders
fans. But I didn't get too excited because, again,
the higher the expectations, the lower the serenity.
And I didn't want to set myself up for disappointment.
And when I first bought the house, man, there
was a lot of questions. Like, why doesn't Tom
Cruise just give you a million dollars to do
this? And just, you know, I'm like. That's not
how life works. And if I had those expectations
and none of the stars showed up from the movie,
this house still had to be a sight to behold,
regardless of their involvement. Otherwise, what
am I building? I'm building another trap like
House of Pain, where if Everlast leaves, we have
an empty shell of a car that has no engine, right?
So I didn't want to build a museum that was contingent
on celebrities from the movie showing up all
the time to make you want to come see it. So
that was already a given. So the following day.
I get a text from Estee Hinton. She said, listen,
I'm so happy I could cry. Matt's coming, and
he's going to take me to lunch, and then he wants
to see the house. I was like, fantastic. She
said, I hope you're in town. I said, oh, I'm
in town. I'll be there. And then I looked at
my Instagram. He's like, hey, brother, I'm in
Oklahoma City. I'm coming to Tulsa tomorrow.
I'd love to see the house. I said, yep, I just
talked to Suzy. I'll be there with bells on.
So I got there in the morning at 9 a .m., and
we waited. He finally showed up at 4 o 'clock.
He came in. gracious to all of us. He said, Danny,
I got to be honest with you. I'd never been in
the house. So I don't have any, I don't have
any memories of being in the house. Cause I don't
think I was ever in the house. I was, my scene
was on the fence in front of the house. My scene
was on the lawn on the side of the house and
then in back of the house. So I don't know if
he knew what to expect, but he walked in and
he was like, Oh shit. You know? And then, you
know, we just kind of watched him and did his
thing. I knew he was excited and was feeling
it once he pulled out his cell phone and started
to take photos of it, that he was like, oh, shit.
I think I'm pretty sure it exceeded his expectations.
And I've done my best to pack that thing chock
full of just everything you could imagine that
with the outsiders from day one till now. There's
a lot to chew on in there. And by the time we
got him out of the house and into the gift store
behind it, and then he realized that his leather
jacket. was back there he was super excited and
he left with the big ass gift bag so that's also
good too because some people don't want no they're
like it was cool but i don't need anything you
know which i understand i don't take stuff from
people if i'm not going to wear it whatever whatever
but he was like he had the beanies on and give
a t -shirt you get one from his cousin get one
from his older brother whatever whatever made
me feel good to that he didn't leave empty -handed
and then uh yeah i had a photographer there and
i told him listen this guy's sitting in his car
but i'll send him home if you feel uncomfortable
or this is not cool he said you know if he's
good enough for you he's good enough for me and
so i brought my my buddy uh he documented it
all and then i was able to tell the news when
he left he didn't say anything about the news
so i didn't want to have them waiting in the
bushes either but they got good they got good
photos from us and uh you know it was fantastic
that he came back and that he enjoyed it that
being said will he be back next week no Will
he be back in three weeks? We don't know. If
we can get him to come back for an event, I'd
love to do something where we can watch the movie,
he can do a Q &A with me, and we could raise
money and pay him a nice little chunk of change
and make a little money for the museum. All in
due time, we'll know. But at the end of the day,
the museum, even if nobody ever showed up celebrity
-wise, it's a sight to behold. That being said,
almost every week we get a celebrity. You know,
between Leonardo DiCaprio, the Green Day, all
the other cast from Killing on the Flower Moons.
I've had every band under the sun that's come
through Tulsa just about. Today I was supposed
to meet the Dropkicks, but he had to run to the
studio quicker. I had Al Barr from the Dropkick
Murphys the last time they were on tour. He wore
the shirt on a live event that they did during
COVID at a boxing match, singing their song.
It's everybody in our age group, they grew up
loving this. I guess I can end with this. When
I made this thing, I had no real plan of what
it was going to be or how it was going to get
done. But I thought I was building a museum for
people like me and you, some aging greasers who
had an affinity for tough guys, leather jackets
and switchblades. What ended up happening is
I built a family museum. And the driving force
behind it is usually the seventh grade students
that have just finished reading the book or about
to read the book, just like their older brother
and sister did, just like their parents did.
And a lot of them, if they're local, they remember
when... Coppola came here and they filmed both
The Outsiders, then Rumblefish. It's a very important
part of their shared collective memory and history.
But we get people from all over the U .S., mainly
the surrounding states. They come from Arizona,
New Mexico, Texas, Kansas, Missouri. I'm like,
you just drove 14 hours? They're like, hell yeah,
we did. I said, just to see the museum? Or you
come for another? No, just to see the museum.
And so the fan base every year is producing new
crop of fans because the book is required reading.
globally it's not even a local thing it's it's
there's copies that book has been printed in
over 33 languages man so it's it's this book
is incredible uh it's important to Tulsa it's
important to Tulsa's history but it's important
to the it's the first time that book is that
we can argue and there's no real answer uh what
what first rapper started hip -hop like what
what's the first record that started that or
let's do rock what's the first rock record You're
going to say a blues record or maybe this one.
There's no true answer. If I ask you, what is
the number one category in book sales to date?
It's young adult literature. Who's the first
person to start young adult literature? I got
the answer. It's S .E. Hinton with The Outsiders.
This is the first time in literary history that
a 15 and a half year old, a teen, wrote about
being a teen. for teens. Prior to that, every
book about being a teen was written from people
our age, reflecting back on that era. She wrote
it in that era, about that era, for her era.
And that creates the young adult book category.
It's not some little poobah category. It is the
number one category in book sales of all time.
And we know where that started in Tulsa, Oklahoma,
from a student named Susan Eloise Tinton, who
they asked her to change her name to something
more ambiguous that guys didn't know it was a
girl writing it because we wouldn't have read
it probably at 15 had we known. And there's just
so many little things to chew on with this thing.
But I never get tired of telling it. It never
gets old to me. The fact that Coppola was involved,
the fact that the librarian who had 100 of her
students write to Coppola in 81 or 82. insisting
that he looks at this and turns it into a movie,
which he did just that. There's just so much.
The stars that got launched out of this, the
careers that came out of this with the Brat Pack,
from Swayze to Dylan to Macchio to Cruise, the
smallest part becomes the biggest actor on the
planet. There's just so much to love. And that
little girl, 15 and a half years old, was the
impetus. for all of this by writing her book.
And it's a time -honored classic. To be a speckle
of dust in this whole legacy is something I just
can't overstate to you how important it is to
me. And this is why I'm on my best behavior.
It's another reason. It's just to stay right
-sized and stay accountable. Because I'm one
altercation on the streets from ruining, you
know, there's things that I can do. The old Danny
can show up. If I'm having a bad day and I'm
frustrated or I haven't eaten or my sugar level
drops, who knows? And so it's another thing that
is super precious to me. And I hope to never
do anything to disgrace the author, the legacy.
anything and i do my best to just everything
is above board everything is transparent and
everything is from the heart man i don't even
have to think about it i just do and say my story
my truth how this all happened and how important
in it and everything else is in god's hands so
well i mean i can hear the passion you know it's
incredible and like you said the inception of
the story and even even the lens that she had
as a 15 year old girl right and you know what
some would argue more of a masculine perspective
story absolutely you know I mean it's amazing
and then absolutely I mean you look at all the
faces on the original cast you know oh my god
like all of them Emilio Estevez Diane Lane Leif
Garrett he was actually the biggest star at the
time because he was from the 70s where he was
a rollover from that era so I was like wait a
minute I already know who that guy is but I didn't
really know I didn't have too much frame of reference
for the rest of them until I did you know yeah
incredible well Before I get to a couple of closing
questions, for people listening, where's the
best place to find out about the museum, where
they can donate, and then what about social media
handles as well? Yeah, I mean, just The Outsiders
House. Any Google search will bring up all of
the links. TheOutsidersHouse .com, The Outsiders
House Facebook, The Outsiders House Museum, Twitter.
It's all easily searched. We can always use donations.
We run the back as a for -profit, which is the
merchandise to the tourists. And then we have
a nonprofit that supplements school children.
A lot of these schools can't afford the bus or
can't afford the tickets or can't afford the
stuff. So we raise money on the nonprofit side.
So if you donate, it goes to the nonprofit, does
not go to the profit side. And then we use it
to subsidize schools and make it more affordable
for them to come here. We comp the whole thing,
depending on how much we have. COVID kind of
knocked that on the head for a while because
I didn't feel during the pandemic to go out asking
for money for this. It's a luxury thing for even
schools to come see it. But so far, so good.
We have a lot of schools coming through and it's
miraculous to see. For me, I can't imagine. I
wish I would have read it in seventh grade. I
did not read it in seventh grade, but I wish
I could have read it and enjoyed it then. Then
to go see the movie, then to be able to. take
a field trip to the actual house that is not
only a collectible itself and in the movie, but
the same collectible is the home of all the other
great collectibles that are inside that house.
That's a Willy Wonka experience as far as I'm
concerned. And I'm glad that we can offer it
to the kids at Tulsa. And we had a tour two days
ago come from three miles, three hours away.
in a place in Oklahoma I never heard, so I wouldn't
even try to remember what she told me. I said,
you guys drove how long? Three hours. I said,
unreal. I was so happy. They come all that way.
That's a long way with the bus full of students,
eighth graders these were. My old ass was already
like, how many bathroom stops is that? Anyway,
but the kids enjoy it, even if they don't know
the first thing about the book or the movie,
which they all do, but there are some. Their
interest gets piqued in that there's all this
cool greaser stuff from the what they think is
you know eons ago but it's got that 50s and 60s
vibe of anywhere usa and so there's always something
for somebody to chew on in there so brilliant
well this one asks two closing questions the
first one because because i normally ask about
books and films i think we've pretty much you
know filled those two slots the outsiders the
outsiders So is there a person you'd recommend
to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to
the first responders, military, and associated
professions of the world? I mean, maybe Ken Casey
from Dropkick, Murphy's. I know he's at long
-term sobriety. I know that, and this is from
an outsider's perspective, all pun intended.
I know that the Dropkicks... Didn't just have
a meteoric rise to fame. They started middle
class, working class, punk rock. And then with
the release of Shippin' Up to Boston and Gangs
of New York, they go through the roof and they've
been able to stay up there, which is fantastic.
If there's any competition at the stadiums for
airtime on songs that get the crowd hyped. uh
it's definitely the drop kicks or or jack white's
songs that are you know in close running with
jump around and we will rock you from uh from
yeah from uh freddie mercury from anyway um he
he because he's here now because i was just thinking
i think he'd be a great guest because and he
also he he he ran a pub for a long time they
own enough said mcgreedy's which was like one
of the oldest um Boston Red Sox pub in Boston,
90 feet from Fenway. He's also got his hand in
the boxing game. So he's not, and I think even
that he runs a rehab or a fund that raises money.
I think they do the cloud of fund, which raises
money for disadvantaged kids and sobriety and
for other stuff. So he definitely is on my mind
for a reason. And I think he'd be a great one.
I will see him at some point later today. I'll
mention it to him, but I think also ask Nakko
because Nakko is plugged in with them as well,
way more than I am. I think he'd be great for
you. And then what was the other question? Well,
actually, just to add to that, I had one of the
band, Lee Fortuner, who's kind of like their
other bagpipe player. So when they tour, Lee
is normally with them. He was a firefighter here
in Florida and ended up being part of the band.
So I think he's mentioned Ken as well. So that's
someone I definitely need to reach out to. And
then I know that the original singer, Mike McColgan,
he was on the fire. department for a minute there
too uh and then he started the street dog so
but i think ken would be a good one man because
i mean that's ken's band i don't care what anybody
says i mean that and you know that that's not
a secret that's his baby he's the tip of the
spear and i think you know and i never really
i don't know i'm sure he's been on a on a lot
of them but i've never heard ken really speak
he's actually speaking this sunday at a meeting
that we do here, he's going to be the speaker.
I asked him yesterday. He's like, yeah, absolutely.
He didn't even hesitate. So I'm excited to hear
a little bit more about the, you know, the behind
the scenes story of him, but I just coming off
the top of my head, I think that would be a great
one for you. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that
as I was talking to Nako is how we got connected.
My thing is as a, as this kind of nucleus of
this project with people being military and first
responder and medical and, you know, like I saw
boy soldiers and all these, these crazy things.
The humanity is what connects us all. And one
thing is, when I look back retroactively at the
music scene, is I would say that and the acting
profession, when we lose people to addiction
or suicide, there used to be for a very long
time, well, you know, it's what you get, being
a musician, being a rock, you know what I mean?
And that's absolute bullshit. So I'm really wanting
to get some people from that kind of background
industry as well, because... We're all human
beings. I wore a uniform as a firefighter. You
were behind the guys holding the microphones.
You were kind of creating that entire stage for
them. So we've all got different professions,
but ultimately we're humans. We began as children
and had our experience, whatever that was. And
then that kind of catapulted us to positive,
negative, and everything in between. So I would
love to get that and bring that commonality in
from the kind of pseudo -punk rock scene as well.
Yeah, man. Brilliant. All right. Well, the very
last question I heard you talk about, we'll touch
on meditation for a second. So the very last
one before I let you go, what do you do to decompress?
I mean, there's a few different methods. I mean,
in the morning, I'm not perfect with it, but
I definitely pray, meditate. and write a gratitude
list. And then during the day, there's a thing
called HALT. It's an acronym. And anytime I'm
stressed out, I got to go, am I hungry, angry,
lonely, or tired? Sometimes it's all four. It
could be horny too. I'm just kidding. But when
I ask myself those questions, I go, holy shit,
I haven't eaten anything. I've taken six shots
of espresso and ate a donut. And now my sugar's
crashing and I'm angry. irritable and discontent.
And I'm like, shocker, you might want to like
take a nap or eat something, go get a, you know,
something that'll replenish your. And so those
are the things that I do. And then one from the
program is, is, is pause when agitated. It's
like you try to not make any decisions in haste.
Cause as soon as I get upset, the snap decisions
are the ones that cost me the most. It's good
to pause and just be like, dude, hold up. All
right, let me think about this for a second,
and let me cool down. Huh, huh, isn't that right
a little bit? But yeah, that's it. I got my little
adopted dog here. I thought I was going to foster
him for one week, and then I'd find someone who
could take him, but now we're stuck on each other
like glue. Listen, life is good, man, when I
just got out of my own way and then just started
to participate in a way that was, you know. different
than I had been doing before. Like I said, you're
about parenting and I haven't ever experienced
that, but I had a good blueprint from just doing
the opposite, I think, of, you know, that 70s
model that was going around in New York for a
long time that I saw in my life. And yeah, I
think from the life that I formerly led, I just
do the absolute. You know, there's a St. Francis
prayer. You'll have to Google it because I don't
want to botch it. But it's basically bringing
what's missing. If there's despair, bring hope.
If there's anger, bring love. If there's, you
know, it's basically bringing opposite action
to what you don't like. And so it's easy for
me to find fault in things. So what now? What
can I bring to counterbalance? That is what I
try to do the most. Not always easy. And so with
that, I'll end. I got to go walk this dog and
take care of the rest of my day. But it's been
a pleasure talking to you. Shout out to Knuckle
Nolan. He's one of the most even keeled man's
man, always there to help. I can't say enough
good things about him. And he's he's a big influence
on me, too, man, because we both started out
big cheeseburger eating, you know, shit talking
New Yorkers. And in the last. Shit, it's been
eight years since I've known him, probably, maybe
more. I've watched the growth in him in ways
that I just... We both never wore shorts. I'm
wearing shorts right now. He's wearing shorts.
We used to clown on dudes with flip -flops. He's
rocking flip -flops. He's doing jujitsu. He even
bought a fucking surfboard, for Christ's sake.
I mean, that's far from who we... You know, we
were like, you know, jaded New Yorkers talking
shit, ba -ba -ba. And it's just... so great to
watch people do what they say they're going to
do and grow. Cause I noticed it before they might
notice the growth in themselves. And that's the
same thing for me. People tell me, Danny, it's
so impressive to see what you're doing. I don't
even notice cause I'm just doing what I'm doing.
And you know, it's like that. So shout out to
knock on Nolan. Great talking to you, my man.
I will put it in Ken's ear today, but also tell,
tell knock cause he's got a, he's got a direct
connect with them. And, uh, I'm looking forward
to, you know, one day coming to meet you and
all hanging out. Maybe me and you and Nak can
get together and chop it up some more.