WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.780 Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As 00:00:01.780 --> 00:00:03.520 always, my name is James Geering, and this week 00:00:03.520 --> 00:00:05.580 it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show 00:00:05.580 --> 00:00:08.880 20 -year law enforcement veteran and the man 00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:12.320 behind Reston Group Critical Solutions, Jared 00:00:12.320 --> 00:00:15.740 Reston. Now, in this conversation, we discuss 00:00:15.740 --> 00:00:18.899 a host of topics from his journey into the world 00:00:18.899 --> 00:00:21.480 of law enforcement, the importance of fitness 00:00:21.480 --> 00:00:24.420 in the first responder professions, the impact 00:00:24.420 --> 00:00:27.760 of officer -involved shootings, mental health, 00:00:28.730 --> 00:00:32.649 the Charlie Kirk murder, weapon design, and so 00:00:32.649 --> 00:00:35.310 much more. Now, before we get to this incredible 00:00:35.310 --> 00:00:37.890 conversation, as I say every week, please just 00:00:37.890 --> 00:00:40.630 take a moment. Go to whichever app you listen 00:00:40.630 --> 00:00:44.149 to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback, 00:00:44.270 --> 00:00:48.369 and leave a rating. Every single five -star rating 00:00:48.369 --> 00:00:51.530 truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making 00:00:51.530 --> 00:00:55.030 it easier for others to find. And this is a free 00:00:55.030 --> 00:00:59.630 library of well over 1 ,100 episodes now. So 00:00:59.630 --> 00:01:03.250 all I ask in return is that you help share these 00:01:03.250 --> 00:01:06.310 incredible men and women's stories so I can get 00:01:06.310 --> 00:01:09.510 them to every single person on planet Earth who 00:01:09.510 --> 00:01:13.450 needs to hear them. So that being said, I introduce 00:01:13.450 --> 00:01:37.340 to you, Jared. Reston. Enjoy. Well, Jared, I 00:01:37.340 --> 00:01:40.030 want to start by saying. This is a long time 00:01:40.030 --> 00:01:41.849 coming. I just mentioned that before we hit record. 00:01:41.989 --> 00:01:44.810 Your name has come up many times as far as guest 00:01:44.810 --> 00:01:47.349 recommendations. I don't know why these paths 00:01:47.349 --> 00:01:50.269 never intersected, but we are finally here. So 00:01:50.269 --> 00:01:52.409 I want to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield 00:01:52.409 --> 00:01:55.670 podcast today. All right. Well, thank you. Thanks 00:01:55.670 --> 00:01:57.849 for having me. So where on planet Earth are we 00:01:57.849 --> 00:02:01.810 finding you this afternoon? I'm in Florida, Jacksonville, 00:02:01.849 --> 00:02:03.810 Florida. Beautiful. Not too far from here. I'm 00:02:03.810 --> 00:02:07.680 in Ocala, so down the road. All right. Well, 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:09.500 I would love to start at the very beginning of 00:02:09.500 --> 00:02:12.259 your timeline. So tell me where you were born 00:02:12.259 --> 00:02:14.139 and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, 00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:17.460 what your parents did, how many siblings. All 00:02:17.460 --> 00:02:19.979 right. So I was born in Houston, Texas, only 00:02:19.979 --> 00:02:23.020 lived there for a very short time. Moved around 00:02:23.020 --> 00:02:26.419 a bunch when I was a kid. My dad is a chemical 00:02:26.419 --> 00:02:30.379 engineer and worked for Dow. So we moved a bunch 00:02:30.379 --> 00:02:34.659 then. Then my parents split up when I was in 00:02:34.659 --> 00:02:37.599 the fifth grade. So then I ended up in Orange 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:39.740 Park, Florida, which is a suburb of Jacksonville. 00:02:40.020 --> 00:02:42.780 And that's kind of where I grew up and maintained, 00:02:43.060 --> 00:02:46.879 you know, stayed my roots here in Jacksonville. 00:02:47.500 --> 00:02:50.639 Beautiful. Chemical engineer, talk to me about 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:53.120 that as far as having to move the family around. 00:02:53.300 --> 00:02:55.199 What was it that was pulling your dad to all 00:02:55.199 --> 00:02:58.659 these different places? I mean, that's just how 00:02:58.659 --> 00:03:01.400 the job was. He worked kind of in the oil business 00:03:01.400 --> 00:03:04.080 and had to go different places. And we moved 00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:09.439 around probably 18 to 24 months when we were 00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:12.219 kids. My older brothers got more moving than 00:03:12.219 --> 00:03:15.199 I did. I was probably more stable than anything, 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:19.090 but that's just how it was. Well, you hear that 00:03:19.090 --> 00:03:20.930 from the military families a lot. And I always 00:03:20.930 --> 00:03:23.009 ask, you know, anyone who was raised in that 00:03:23.009 --> 00:03:25.830 kind of environment, what when you reflect, even 00:03:25.830 --> 00:03:27.330 though, as you said, it was a shorter period, 00:03:27.370 --> 00:03:30.449 what were the pros of moving? And then what were 00:03:30.449 --> 00:03:34.169 the cons, if any? I mean, the pros of moving 00:03:34.169 --> 00:03:37.610 was, I mean, I got to, I was from a bunch of 00:03:37.610 --> 00:03:39.889 places, I remember a bunch of places, I remember 00:03:39.889 --> 00:03:41.969 a bunch of people and just different cultures. 00:03:42.009 --> 00:03:45.129 And, and like, it wasn't just like moving down 00:03:45.129 --> 00:03:48.650 the road, I moved lived in Jacksonville twice, 00:03:48.830 --> 00:03:53.250 Houston, Mobile, Alabama, Houma, Louisiana, and 00:03:53.250 --> 00:03:57.069 Westerville, Ohio. So, I mean, it was, you know, 00:03:57.090 --> 00:04:05.310 it was good. And what about cons, if any? I mean, 00:04:05.330 --> 00:04:08.990 I would say for my brothers, they don't have 00:04:08.990 --> 00:04:11.310 the long history of friendships that I have with 00:04:11.310 --> 00:04:13.490 the kids that I grew up with. Like, you know, 00:04:13.490 --> 00:04:16.970 once I stayed in Orange Park. So they don't have 00:04:16.970 --> 00:04:22.889 that kind of almost brother's bond with other 00:04:22.889 --> 00:04:26.509 kids because they were moving so much. That's 00:04:26.509 --> 00:04:29.509 kind of the double -edged sword, I think. When 00:04:29.509 --> 00:04:32.110 you do stay in a place, I moved a lot when I 00:04:32.110 --> 00:04:34.970 was younger. Not when I was young, young, but 00:04:34.970 --> 00:04:38.769 when I kind of got into adulthood. You know, 00:04:38.769 --> 00:04:40.370 you obviously get to travel a lot. So as you 00:04:40.370 --> 00:04:42.089 said, you get to see all these different cultures. 00:04:42.129 --> 00:04:44.250 You get to see the same kinds of people all over 00:04:44.250 --> 00:04:45.930 the country. And you realize that, you know, 00:04:45.990 --> 00:04:48.889 there are those characters everywhere. But when 00:04:48.889 --> 00:04:50.850 you do lay down your roots, there's also that 00:04:50.850 --> 00:04:53.589 sense of community. So you need, I think, to 00:04:53.589 --> 00:04:57.149 travel so that you kind of shed some of the stereotypes 00:04:57.149 --> 00:05:01.889 and maybe the myopic views on life that some 00:05:01.889 --> 00:05:04.079 people have that never travel. But at the same 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:06.399 time, if you're traveling constantly, you never 00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:08.240 really get to feel what it's like to have that 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:13.279 cohesive community too. Right. So what about 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:15.300 sports and exercise? What were you playing back 00:05:15.300 --> 00:05:20.420 then? For me, I played football. It's Florida, 00:05:20.459 --> 00:05:23.920 so you play football or nothing. That's just 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:26.639 kind of how it was. I played football into college, 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:32.209 and that was my sport. When I was younger, it 00:05:32.209 --> 00:05:34.250 was skateboarding. So I went from skateboarding 00:05:34.250 --> 00:05:37.730 to playing football. What made you stop skating? 00:05:39.230 --> 00:05:41.509 I got a little too big for it. I kept breaking 00:05:41.509 --> 00:05:45.069 my decks every week doing stuff because I was 00:05:45.069 --> 00:05:48.009 just a little too heavy, I guess. Now, what about 00:05:48.009 --> 00:05:49.889 first responders, military? Did you have any 00:05:49.889 --> 00:05:54.790 in your family or extended family? Not when I 00:05:54.790 --> 00:05:57.470 was younger. My oldest brother got into law enforcement 00:05:57.470 --> 00:06:01.860 when he was 20. So I was 11. So, I mean, he kind 00:06:01.860 --> 00:06:05.540 of paved the way for law enforcement for us. 00:06:06.180 --> 00:06:07.819 And is that what you were thinking about when 00:06:07.819 --> 00:06:09.560 you first graduated or was there something else 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:13.779 prior to that? I mean, I think I was probably 00:06:13.779 --> 00:06:16.079 going to be in law enforcement no matter, like 00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:18.040 I used to ride ever since I was 16, I've got 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:20.279 to do ride alongs with them and do things. And 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:25.259 it was just fun. I think like kind of my calling 00:06:25.259 --> 00:06:27.240 in the law enforcement is I didn't want to grow 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:31.889 up. And just having that bond with your friends, 00:06:31.970 --> 00:06:36.110 that locker room feel of, you know, just doing 00:06:36.110 --> 00:06:38.769 things and having a brotherhood and doing that, 00:06:38.790 --> 00:06:41.189 that kind of drew me to that same kind of law 00:06:41.189 --> 00:06:48.689 enforcement career path. Now, what did that path 00:06:48.689 --> 00:06:50.689 look like for you? I knew some agencies will 00:06:50.689 --> 00:06:53.350 hire you as a civilian and then put you through 00:06:53.350 --> 00:06:56.009 other ones like I had to do. You get your fire 00:06:56.009 --> 00:06:59.670 and then you go test for a job. Right. So that's 00:06:59.670 --> 00:07:04.129 how it was. To go to the academy back then, you 00:07:04.129 --> 00:07:06.870 had to pay for your own academy. It was ran through 00:07:06.870 --> 00:07:10.350 a college or state college. Once you got to the 00:07:10.350 --> 00:07:11.990 academy, then you had to take your state test. 00:07:12.149 --> 00:07:13.709 And once you passed your state test, then you 00:07:13.709 --> 00:07:15.750 could get hired by an agency. Like it made you 00:07:15.750 --> 00:07:20.009 eligible to be hired. So I did all that, applied 00:07:20.009 --> 00:07:23.209 to a few places. The Jacksonville Sheriff's Office 00:07:23.209 --> 00:07:25.649 was always somewhere that I wanted to be because 00:07:25.649 --> 00:07:29.750 it was the premier agency of North Florida. And 00:07:29.750 --> 00:07:34.910 so I got hired on as a bailiff and I hung out 00:07:34.910 --> 00:07:37.870 there for about a year until they moved me to 00:07:37.870 --> 00:07:40.319 the streets. And what year was it you got hired? 00:07:42.300 --> 00:07:47.100 2001, April, 2001. As we sit here now and there's 00:07:47.100 --> 00:07:49.879 a huge recruitment crisis in police fire and 00:07:49.879 --> 00:07:52.980 EMS, I always like to contrast that with how 00:07:52.980 --> 00:07:55.139 competitive it was when we were testing. Cause 00:07:55.139 --> 00:07:57.560 I got hired in 04, so not too far after you. 00:07:57.899 --> 00:08:00.540 How competitive was it back then to be a police 00:08:00.540 --> 00:08:03.959 officer in Florida? Oh, it was super competitive. 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:07.040 I mean, it was, um, and I hate to say it, but 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:09.220 like, even like being a white male, Made it a 00:08:09.220 --> 00:08:12.500 little bit harder, you know, at those times. 00:08:13.420 --> 00:08:19.160 But, I mean, you just kind of, I mean, it was 00:08:19.160 --> 00:08:21.060 competitive. You better had your stuff right. 00:08:21.160 --> 00:08:24.939 And sometimes, like, I probably wasn't the best 00:08:24.939 --> 00:08:28.560 at when I was younger. So, you know what I mean? 00:08:28.579 --> 00:08:30.360 I got into a little bit of trouble. So, like, 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:32.120 I had to wait a little bit longer in the courthouse. 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:36.179 I had to do my time. They had to, you know, is 00:08:36.179 --> 00:08:39.269 he? Is he responsible enough to do this? You 00:08:39.269 --> 00:08:41.490 know, and it's just the nature of the beast. 00:08:42.330 --> 00:08:44.450 I think it's an important conversation because 00:08:44.450 --> 00:08:47.409 as we sit here now, and I think one of the things 00:08:47.409 --> 00:08:49.850 that's turning the fire service around, ironically, 00:08:49.850 --> 00:08:52.269 Orange Park, I think are really trying to make 00:08:52.269 --> 00:08:55.889 this happen there too. is uh looking at the firefighter 00:08:55.889 --> 00:08:57.570 work week for example and they've been working 00:08:57.570 --> 00:09:00.350 our firefighters into the ground 56 hours a week 00:09:00.350 --> 00:09:02.389 in a mandatory overtime now you're talking 80 00:09:02.389 --> 00:09:04.970 hours a week and then you know surprise face 00:09:04.970 --> 00:09:07.269 people don't want to do this job when they look 00:09:07.269 --> 00:09:09.769 at it on paper and then you know they say oh 00:09:09.769 --> 00:09:11.549 we can't even hire enough people now i'm like 00:09:11.549 --> 00:09:14.590 this is how far you've fallen that we used to 00:09:14.590 --> 00:09:17.049 have hundreds if not thousands of people testing 00:09:17.049 --> 00:09:20.090 for a handful of positions so we used to be there 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:23.559 Until 10, 15 years ago, and we can get back there. 00:09:23.700 --> 00:09:27.080 But you've got to finally, you know, have the 00:09:27.080 --> 00:09:29.340 backbone to say, look, as a profession, we've 00:09:29.340 --> 00:09:31.179 made some mistakes along the way, and we've got 00:09:31.179 --> 00:09:33.919 to fix them to entice young people to want to 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:37.919 do this job again. Oh, for sure. And it's just 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:44.639 the culture of service has not been really looked 00:09:44.639 --> 00:09:49.009 at really. as an honor or heroes, now you're 00:09:49.009 --> 00:09:52.070 getting bashed all the time. And like, who wants 00:09:52.070 --> 00:09:53.970 to put up with it when no one's got your back 00:09:53.970 --> 00:09:56.690 kind of deal? Yeah. Well, even from the community 00:09:56.690 --> 00:09:58.669 point of view, circling around to what we were 00:09:58.669 --> 00:10:01.669 talking about a few minutes ago, when I think 00:10:01.669 --> 00:10:04.190 as an immigrant about America, it's the American 00:10:04.190 --> 00:10:06.409 dream, you know, it's, it's community. It's, 00:10:06.409 --> 00:10:07.990 it's having a place of your own. It's raising 00:10:07.990 --> 00:10:11.149 your kids. And yet when you look at the message 00:10:11.149 --> 00:10:14.110 now, it's like, no, you know, fuck everyone else. 00:10:14.190 --> 00:10:16.970 You need to have all the money. It's a very different 00:10:16.970 --> 00:10:19.490 message than I got as a young boy in England, 00:10:19.610 --> 00:10:22.409 for example. So I think even environmentally, 00:10:22.690 --> 00:10:26.070 we've allowed that messaging to shift to a very, 00:10:26.090 --> 00:10:30.590 very selfish, nasty narrative rather than it 00:10:30.590 --> 00:10:32.769 takes a village. And that includes taking care 00:10:32.769 --> 00:10:34.610 of our first responders and military members, 00:10:34.710 --> 00:10:38.269 as well as our teachers and everyone else. Yes. 00:10:40.509 --> 00:10:42.309 There's not a lot of service. There's a lot of 00:10:42.309 --> 00:10:46.659 me involved now. Absolutely. Well, you mentioned 00:10:46.659 --> 00:10:49.600 as well about not being an angel. I've told the 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:52.500 story a few times on here. When I first did a 00:10:52.500 --> 00:10:55.799 test in, I went to school in Orlando, but then 00:10:55.799 --> 00:10:58.460 I went down south and did one of those kind of 00:10:58.460 --> 00:11:00.620 collaborative tests where you take one test and 00:11:00.620 --> 00:11:03.059 then they give it to a bunch of agencies. And 00:11:03.059 --> 00:11:05.639 there was a history, drug, you know, like a criminal 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:10.679 history, you know, pre, pre, whatever it would 00:11:10.679 --> 00:11:13.059 be called. Oh my goodness, why am I blanking 00:11:13.059 --> 00:11:16.899 on the name? Pre -app. And so I was like, okay, 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:18.679 well, you know, let me be honest. A long time 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:20.399 ago, I tried a couple of things in a different 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:22.679 country, had a great time, you know, was never 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:26.940 late to work. And a guy from Miami Beach screwed 00:11:26.940 --> 00:11:29.860 it up and threw it in my face. And I was like, 00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:33.039 oh, so honesty isn't what's needed. You have 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:36.000 to lie to become a firefighter. And, you know, 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:37.179 never really thought about it, you know, ended 00:11:37.179 --> 00:11:39.700 up getting through polygraphs and getting hired. 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:42.899 But now in this position reflecting. Just talking 00:11:42.899 --> 00:11:44.960 about what you were mentioning a minute ago, 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:49.399 there's a big facade that the perfect cop, the 00:11:49.399 --> 00:11:51.460 perfect firefighter is someone that's never done 00:11:51.460 --> 00:11:54.080 anything bad in their life. And I couldn't disagree 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:56.120 more. Now, there are certain things that you 00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:59.200 can't do. I mean, obviously involving children 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:00.960 and other things that, yeah, of course, completely 00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:03.779 disqualified. But there's a lot of things I think 00:12:03.779 --> 00:12:06.840 that our kind of people find themselves doing 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:09.220 that then once, as you said, they've kind of... 00:12:09.500 --> 00:12:11.720 moved away from that and learn from it that end 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:15.460 up being an asset in uniform rather than something 00:12:15.460 --> 00:12:19.360 that should strike you off a list oh for 150 00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:25.100 percent um i mean we're kind of a good officer 00:12:25.100 --> 00:12:27.480 fire they're risk takers they're willing to do 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:29.360 it they're willing to push and you know a lot 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:35.019 of people talk about several things or when something 00:12:35.019 --> 00:12:38.169 gets hard But sometimes it just takes like a 00:12:38.169 --> 00:12:40.909 fuck it, let's go attitude. And that's going 00:12:40.909 --> 00:12:43.009 to be that risk taker who does it. You know what 00:12:43.009 --> 00:12:44.769 I mean? The same thing that may have got you 00:12:44.769 --> 00:12:47.309 in trouble in high school, like, all right, let's 00:12:47.309 --> 00:12:49.610 do it. Like not a lot of thought will make you 00:12:49.610 --> 00:12:52.789 a hero in other parts. Absolutely. That's ironic 00:12:52.789 --> 00:12:54.409 because I've said this a few times, the same 00:12:54.409 --> 00:12:57.360 things that I try that I. was disqualified in 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:00.379 that process for are now being used to heal first 00:13:00.379 --> 00:13:03.100 responders and military from PTSD. So there we 00:13:03.100 --> 00:13:07.279 go. And they've opened this way up. I mean, they've 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:09.700 lowered the standards so much to try to get people, 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:14.679 you know, it's so it's just wild. It is. Well, 00:13:14.740 --> 00:13:16.519 while we're on that subject, I mean, we'll obviously 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:19.460 walk through. But if you were king for a day 00:13:19.460 --> 00:13:21.860 with this kind of storied career that you've 00:13:21.860 --> 00:13:25.649 had. What do we need to change on the law enforcement 00:13:25.649 --> 00:13:29.190 side so we can get back to the type of demand 00:13:29.190 --> 00:13:37.730 for policing that we saw 20 years ago? I think 00:13:37.730 --> 00:13:42.610 it needs to get back to that more harder, almost 00:13:42.610 --> 00:13:48.000 like a paramilitaristic. At least Academy and 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:49.879 things like that. So people know what it's like 00:13:49.879 --> 00:13:52.120 to be hard. I mean, I feel like the Academy has 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:54.419 taken more of a business approach rather than, 00:13:54.419 --> 00:13:58.860 you know, so they have like HR and you're not 00:13:58.860 --> 00:14:00.899 allowed to drop people to do pushups anymore. 00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:03.480 It's like their PT is scheduled and it can't 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:07.179 be done outside of that. And I mean, that's just, 00:14:07.220 --> 00:14:09.580 that's wild to me. I don't know. Like for us, 00:14:09.580 --> 00:14:11.200 it's like you walk by somebody and you looked 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:13.340 at them sideways or like, you know, you just 00:14:13.340 --> 00:14:15.919 kind of looked crazy. drop you're like dang it 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:20.059 you know and that but that prepares you for things 00:14:20.059 --> 00:14:24.779 that it's not just uh you know everybody wants 00:14:24.779 --> 00:14:29.419 to make this a business it's not a business no 00:14:29.419 --> 00:14:31.600 i've always said this people say that in the 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:33.659 fire service too i'm like okay well if you're 00:14:33.659 --> 00:14:36.080 going to mirror a business why are you mirroring 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:39.600 an indonesian sweatshop rather than yeah because 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:45.730 you really don't want the hr as a business in 00:14:45.730 --> 00:14:49.490 a firehouse or a police station, because they're 00:14:49.490 --> 00:14:54.049 probably one of the worst, like a true HR person 00:14:54.049 --> 00:14:57.370 would lose their mind if they were there. Absolutely. 00:14:57.610 --> 00:14:59.330 A hundred percent. Well, speaking of that, then 00:14:59.330 --> 00:15:01.049 what was the culture when you walked through 00:15:01.049 --> 00:15:03.809 the front door of your agency, as far as mental 00:15:03.809 --> 00:15:06.309 health, physical fitness and weapons training? 00:15:08.809 --> 00:15:10.789 Jacksonville has always been really, really great. 00:15:10.870 --> 00:15:15.639 I mean, I think they still are today. But, like, 00:15:15.740 --> 00:15:18.240 you know, our culture, we had a guy, Tom Vautour, 00:15:18.340 --> 00:15:21.539 was our lead, like, combatives instructor, and 00:15:21.539 --> 00:15:25.059 he was just a man amongst men, and he just, you 00:15:25.059 --> 00:15:29.379 know, and he was great. Our firearms have always 00:15:29.379 --> 00:15:31.220 been there. Jacksonville's always been kind of 00:15:31.220 --> 00:15:35.080 a violent city, and we've had some pretty, you 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:39.159 know, famous shootings and big things happen 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:42.879 with us. we've been a gunfighting culture for 00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:46.360 a long time. So I still think Jacksonville has 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:48.320 one of the, like I travel around and do a lot 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:51.340 of things that we, we have a good culture at 00:15:51.340 --> 00:15:55.419 our sheriff's office. As you were early in your 00:15:55.419 --> 00:15:58.960 career, were you training outside of that as 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:00.840 well? Were you doing other classes? Was that 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:04.659 even a thing back then? Oh yeah, for sure. Like 00:16:04.659 --> 00:16:07.879 that was like, I kind of, I think I got that 00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:14.480 kind of from my, My sports background, from middle 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:16.799 school to high school, you wanted to become a 00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:19.759 starter as soon as possible. When I took that 00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:24.759 mentality, I wanted to be a starter immediately 00:16:24.759 --> 00:16:28.379 when I became a policeman. Fresh out of the academy, 00:16:28.539 --> 00:16:30.539 I would take any classes the academy was putting 00:16:30.539 --> 00:16:34.100 out. I trained a lot of MMA stuff at that time 00:16:34.100 --> 00:16:37.980 and just doing different stuff to be better. 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:42.179 When I finally made it. and they called my number, 00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:46.440 I'd be ready to play. Now, were you trying to 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:48.320 get on the SWAT early in your career or did that 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:52.460 come later? I got on, it took me three years 00:16:52.460 --> 00:16:59.379 to get on. And I kind of, my timing was perfect. 00:16:59.419 --> 00:17:02.480 We were having the Super Bowl. So we ramped our 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:06.200 SWAT team up in numbers for the Super Bowl. And 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:08.579 I was part of that Super Bowl crew that was able 00:17:08.579 --> 00:17:11.990 to come on. So I probably got on a little bit 00:17:11.990 --> 00:17:14.089 earlier than some people did, but my timing was 00:17:14.089 --> 00:17:17.029 just right. Now, what about fitness standards? 00:17:17.170 --> 00:17:19.589 Because this is always interesting. Regular cop 00:17:19.589 --> 00:17:23.309 versus SWAT operator. Was there a big disparity 00:17:23.309 --> 00:17:25.089 between the two or was it actually close? It 00:17:25.089 --> 00:17:27.849 was a huge disparity, especially when I got on 00:17:27.849 --> 00:17:35.759 the team. It was, you know. It was pretty much 00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:38.819 based on most of it was based on your physical 00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:40.940 standards. Like it wasn't, we didn't have a lot 00:17:40.940 --> 00:17:42.819 of shooting standards. We didn't have CQB standard. 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:44.819 We didn't have a lot of standards except for 00:17:44.819 --> 00:17:49.539 PT. So like, and your PT standard, it was, I 00:17:49.539 --> 00:17:51.819 mean, it was big. It's 12 dead hang pull -ups, 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:57.380 mile run and under, I think a mile run under 00:17:57.380 --> 00:18:03.200 630, 50 push -ups, 50 sit -ups, legless rope 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:07.910 climb. And then the obstacle course, which doesn't 00:18:07.910 --> 00:18:10.130 sound like all that crazy, but when you put it 00:18:10.130 --> 00:18:13.230 all together in one morning, it was a kick in 00:18:13.230 --> 00:18:16.369 the nuts. And we had to maintain that standard. 00:18:17.289 --> 00:18:20.589 And I'm 6 '3". You know, when I went to the academy, 00:18:20.690 --> 00:18:25.609 I was 6 '3", 270, playing defensive line in college. 00:18:25.670 --> 00:18:27.390 And I was like, you know, I wanted to become 00:18:27.390 --> 00:18:31.300 a SWAT guy. So, I mean, I got down to 210. And 00:18:31.300 --> 00:18:33.579 I almost didn't make the police academy because 00:18:33.579 --> 00:18:36.519 I couldn't run a mile and a half in under 15 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:39.700 minutes. Like I've got like 15, 14, 58 and I 00:18:39.700 --> 00:18:41.259 crossed. Like, you know what I mean? It was a, 00:18:41.259 --> 00:18:44.500 you know, I ran 40 yard sprints. I didn't do 00:18:44.500 --> 00:18:47.839 miles. Like that was crazy to me. And then I 00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:50.039 just put a lot of work in it and decided that's 00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:52.680 what I wanted to do. So yeah, like, and I'm competing 00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:55.420 against, you know, five, eight, 165 pound dudes, 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:58.429 like little ninjas just bouncing around. And, 00:18:58.429 --> 00:19:03.150 you know, there was only, I think I did 17 years 00:19:03.150 --> 00:19:07.089 on SWAT and there's probably only six of us over 00:19:07.089 --> 00:19:09.890 200 pounds. You know what I mean? It's funny. 00:19:09.950 --> 00:19:12.690 It's the same with the SEALs and Delta. We all 00:19:12.690 --> 00:19:15.529 think that they're these, you know, these bodybuilders 00:19:15.529 --> 00:19:17.109 because that's what you and I grew up with, you 00:19:17.109 --> 00:19:20.609 know, on TV. And you listen to, you know, the 00:19:20.609 --> 00:19:22.509 high performers of the world and you have your 00:19:22.509 --> 00:19:25.349 big guys, you know, the Breachers and that particular 00:19:25.349 --> 00:19:27.579 type. And you have some. really really small 00:19:27.579 --> 00:19:30.019 people in some of these high operator positions 00:19:30.019 --> 00:19:32.339 and then as you mentioned it seems like the average 00:19:32.339 --> 00:19:34.920 person is kind of like 180 ish so they're not 00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:38.640 these you know giant behemoth you know men and 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:43.299 women in these positions usually right so what 00:19:43.299 --> 00:19:46.819 about the regular cop then what was the difference 00:19:46.819 --> 00:19:51.859 in their fitness standards i mean i still say 00:19:51.859 --> 00:19:53.779 there isn't a fitness standard but we do have 00:19:53.779 --> 00:19:58.230 a fitness standard and it's it's an obstacle 00:19:58.230 --> 00:20:01.250 course they run. It's, you know, get out of a 00:20:01.250 --> 00:20:05.069 vehicle, 40 -yard dash, body drag, like up six 00:20:05.069 --> 00:20:08.829 stairs, down six stairs. You got to pick up a 00:20:08.829 --> 00:20:11.609 50 -pound dumbbell, put it on a table, jump over 00:20:11.609 --> 00:20:15.109 a four -foot ditch, and then you got to like 00:20:15.109 --> 00:20:17.170 serpentine through something. So, I mean, it's 00:20:17.170 --> 00:20:20.769 not even a quarter mile, I don't think. And you 00:20:20.769 --> 00:20:23.289 get like an eternity to do it. You know what 00:20:23.289 --> 00:20:27.869 I mean? so it's just kind of it's but people 00:20:27.869 --> 00:20:32.049 fail it and it surprises me but well what what 00:20:32.049 --> 00:20:34.329 i think is strange i mean obviously as you said 00:20:34.329 --> 00:20:36.529 i mean you guys are required to wear you know 00:20:36.529 --> 00:20:40.170 more protective uh clothing usually or excuse 00:20:40.170 --> 00:20:43.650 me protective uh equipment you know you're carrying 00:20:43.650 --> 00:20:45.609 maybe larger weapons so you know you're breaching 00:20:45.609 --> 00:20:47.589 things that the average street cop is probably 00:20:47.589 --> 00:20:49.990 not going to do certainly not very frequently 00:20:50.859 --> 00:20:53.119 In my profession, we have special operations, 00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:55.099 but that's hazmat, that's rope rescue. It's not 00:20:55.099 --> 00:20:57.279 like they have to be above and beyond from the 00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:03.069 physical fitness standard, usually. It doesn't 00:21:03.069 --> 00:21:05.750 matter who it is. Any of us could be the ones 00:21:05.750 --> 00:21:08.089 called to a high rise fire. Any of us could be 00:21:08.089 --> 00:21:10.529 called to drag people from a mass shooting. I 00:21:10.529 --> 00:21:13.549 mean, there's no rhyme or reason to it. So in 00:21:13.549 --> 00:21:16.250 my profession, there's one standard. And sadly, 00:21:16.569 --> 00:21:19.390 it's extremely low in a lot of places or absent. 00:21:19.549 --> 00:21:21.930 You go through the academy and maybe when you 00:21:21.930 --> 00:21:23.650 get hired, you're held to a standard and that's 00:21:23.650 --> 00:21:27.349 it. In law enforcement, though. Even though people 00:21:27.349 --> 00:21:29.369 maybe don't need to be at the highest level when 00:21:29.369 --> 00:21:31.329 it comes to SWAT, there does seem to be this 00:21:31.329 --> 00:21:35.630 massive gap between the SWAT performance standards 00:21:35.630 --> 00:21:38.710 and everyone else. And arguably, any of those 00:21:38.710 --> 00:21:40.710 cops could go to a shooting, could have to run 00:21:40.710 --> 00:21:43.829 up to a high -rise fire, whatever it is. So what 00:21:43.829 --> 00:21:47.690 is your take on the average fitness standards 00:21:47.690 --> 00:21:51.190 in law enforcement outside of SWAT? I mean, I 00:21:51.190 --> 00:21:54.029 think they're very low. i i'm a firm believer 00:21:54.029 --> 00:21:55.970 and i don't care if it's your first day or your 00:21:55.970 --> 00:21:59.869 last day you can never be a liability always 00:21:59.869 --> 00:22:02.089 be an asset to your department being asked and 00:22:02.089 --> 00:22:06.190 understanding you know you might have to do these 00:22:06.190 --> 00:22:10.910 things um i mean physical fitness is a huge part 00:22:10.910 --> 00:22:13.390 of our job i mean fighting people are you able 00:22:13.390 --> 00:22:18.069 to fight somebody are you i mean it's and it's 00:22:18.069 --> 00:22:20.190 you're not going to be able to do it nationally 00:22:20.920 --> 00:22:24.640 I mean, our unions, I love our unions for some 00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:26.500 things and I hate our unions for some things. 00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:28.920 Like what they stick up for and what they like, 00:22:29.059 --> 00:22:33.000 you know, our standards are our standards and 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:34.880 they're so low like for physical fitness because 00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:38.640 people fight that. Because there have been fat 00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:41.200 bodies like their entire life with no discipline 00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:44.319 and like they want to complain about it. What's 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:46.380 it got to do with my job? Like everything it 00:22:46.380 --> 00:22:49.480 has to do with your job. It has to do with everything. 00:22:51.299 --> 00:22:54.160 Yeah, we end up getting a bunch of Uncle Rico's 00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:56.119 that, you know, oh, you wait. When adrenaline 00:22:56.119 --> 00:22:58.119 hits, I'm going to rise to the occasion. It's 00:22:58.119 --> 00:22:59.599 like, no, listen to the - No, you're not. You're 00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:01.119 going to have a freaking heart attack and you 00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:03.339 become, now I got to pull your ass out. Like, 00:23:03.339 --> 00:23:06.200 you know what I mean? It gets wild. Like what 00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:08.380 people feel they can do and what they can't do. 00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:11.059 And I mean, physical fitness has always been 00:23:11.059 --> 00:23:12.900 a part of my life. It's never not going to be 00:23:12.900 --> 00:23:16.160 a part of my life. You know, I talk about a lot 00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:19.380 after like being shot. after i was shot like 00:23:19.380 --> 00:23:22.440 what physical fitness did for me like it got 00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:25.079 me into it got me to the fight i think it helped 00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:27.859 me in the fist fight i believe it probably helped 00:23:27.859 --> 00:23:29.700 me take some of the rounds but it also helped 00:23:29.700 --> 00:23:32.700 me return fire because my heart rate wasn't spiked 00:23:32.700 --> 00:23:35.980 to all get out you know what i mean and then 00:23:35.980 --> 00:23:40.019 it just physical fitness has everything to do 00:23:40.019 --> 00:23:43.579 with our job well this is and how they people 00:23:43.579 --> 00:23:46.960 how people say it doesn't then you're not doing 00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:49.940 it then you're not doing the job right yeah well 00:23:49.940 --> 00:23:52.720 i'm always very mindful to underline the fact 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:55.220 that the environment that a lot of us work in 00:23:55.220 --> 00:23:58.039 does set you up for failure when it comes to 00:23:58.039 --> 00:24:01.259 body composition testosterone etc like shift 00:24:01.259 --> 00:24:04.740 work is not kind to the human body that being 00:24:04.740 --> 00:24:07.900 said though if you are opposing fitness standards 00:24:07.900 --> 00:24:09.819 and again right now if you're talking about the 00:24:09.819 --> 00:24:11.920 firefighters where i'm sitting at the moment 00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:14.680 that are working 80 hour weeks it's kind of hard 00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:16.700 to drop it on them right now because they're 00:24:16.700 --> 00:24:19.420 so mismanaged and so overworked that they just 00:24:19.420 --> 00:24:21.000 want to go home. They're exhausted and I get 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.900 that. But what's nice with this new work week, 00:24:24.019 --> 00:24:26.700 the 42 -hour work week, is you can then bring 00:24:26.700 --> 00:24:29.440 alongside a punitive fitness standard. Say, all 00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:31.799 right, now we finally fixed what's broken. Let's 00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:33.440 put something else there that we should have 00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:36.559 always had. Because if you're resisting fitness 00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:39.819 standards, firstly, you're saying that I'm okay 00:24:39.819 --> 00:24:42.740 with the chance of my firefighter. one of their 00:24:42.740 --> 00:24:45.539 engine crew or the person that they're going 00:24:45.539 --> 00:24:48.339 to save dying because I'm too scared to enforce 00:24:48.339 --> 00:24:51.900 a standard. And I'm also actively opposing longevity 00:24:51.900 --> 00:24:54.579 of their career and retirement because I don't 00:24:54.579 --> 00:24:56.579 want to put in a fitness standard. So there is 00:24:56.579 --> 00:24:58.799 no downside in this whole, oh, you're trying 00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:01.710 to take our jobs bullshit. In your academy, in 00:25:01.710 --> 00:25:04.230 my academy, we knew exactly what was required 00:25:04.230 --> 00:25:07.049 of us as far as our fitness. So no one was suddenly 00:25:07.049 --> 00:25:09.190 surprising you with, oh, you need to be fit to 00:25:09.190 --> 00:25:12.009 be a firefighter. So that's such a cowardly stance 00:25:12.009 --> 00:25:17.789 in the first place. That's crazy to me. You know 00:25:17.789 --> 00:25:19.490 what I mean? And y 'all are firefighters anyway. 00:25:19.609 --> 00:25:21.150 So y 'all, how many hours a day do y 'all get 00:25:21.150 --> 00:25:23.910 to work out in that little, I mean, stop playing 00:25:23.910 --> 00:25:25.829 video games and cooking for each other and go 00:25:25.829 --> 00:25:33.890 work out. But no, I mean, standards, you got, 00:25:33.970 --> 00:25:36.670 it's got to be part of your life. And even if 00:25:36.670 --> 00:25:39.210 you want to go home, cool, have some discipline. 00:25:39.289 --> 00:25:41.430 Like I worked a lot hours, but I got to have 00:25:41.430 --> 00:25:43.890 discipline to go to the gym. I got to go. I got 00:25:43.890 --> 00:25:46.869 to work out. Even if it's a little something, 00:25:47.069 --> 00:25:49.710 you know, that's part of mindset. And that's 00:25:49.710 --> 00:25:52.470 part of being hard. Do the things that you don't 00:25:52.470 --> 00:25:54.869 want to do all the time, because when it gets 00:25:54.869 --> 00:25:58.529 hard, you're going to be able to. to suffer through 00:25:58.529 --> 00:26:00.109 it pretty much. You know what I mean? Like you've, 00:26:00.109 --> 00:26:02.009 you've put yourself through pain. You, you know, 00:26:02.009 --> 00:26:04.910 you understand what it's like. Yeah, no, a hundred 00:26:04.910 --> 00:26:07.009 percent. That's why I would do, I did CrossFit 00:26:07.009 --> 00:26:08.849 for a long time. And you know, the last time 00:26:08.849 --> 00:26:11.809 I'd been kind of air quotes, red line would be 00:26:11.809 --> 00:26:14.890 a few days ago, not the Academy, you know, 10, 00:26:15.089 --> 00:26:19.990 15 years ago. Oh, 100%. All right. Well, you 00:26:19.990 --> 00:26:22.250 mentioned the shoe in before we get to that. 00:26:22.700 --> 00:26:24.779 As you progressed through the first few years, 00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:27.740 what was some of the career calls that you had? 00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:35.160 Man, like when I was in the academy and everything, 00:26:35.259 --> 00:26:37.480 I wanted to make SWAT and I wanted to be a canine. 00:26:37.859 --> 00:26:40.559 Those were my two, that's all I wanted to do. 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.000 So as far as actual calls, did you have any kind 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:47.480 of near misses, you know, large incidents prior 00:26:47.480 --> 00:26:52.450 to 2008? Yeah, I mean, I've been in a shooting 00:26:52.450 --> 00:26:54.809 prior to 2008. I was in a shooting when I was 00:26:54.809 --> 00:26:59.630 on patrol in 06. I was on the SWAT team, but 00:26:59.630 --> 00:27:03.190 I mean, I wasn't. It was a patrol shooting and 00:27:03.190 --> 00:27:06.269 things like that. So, yeah, I mean, I was in 00:27:06.269 --> 00:27:08.990 a bunch of dangerous stuff. That's what we did. 00:27:09.869 --> 00:27:11.990 Even when I was on patrol, even before I made 00:27:11.990 --> 00:27:15.750 SWAT, I had. three other buddies that we worked 00:27:15.750 --> 00:27:17.549 the same shit. We worked midnight shifts and 00:27:17.549 --> 00:27:19.769 we worked the same area. And man, we used to 00:27:19.769 --> 00:27:22.849 get after it. Our job was to put criminals in 00:27:22.849 --> 00:27:26.410 jail. You know what I mean? And we did, we tried 00:27:26.410 --> 00:27:29.450 to do our job the best as we could. So what was 00:27:29.450 --> 00:27:34.529 the background of the shooting prior then? We 00:27:34.529 --> 00:27:39.650 had a guy from Orlando killed his wife in front 00:27:39.650 --> 00:27:45.150 of his daughter. He thought that, he thought 00:27:45.150 --> 00:27:46.789 that she was cheating on him with another guy. 00:27:46.950 --> 00:27:50.329 That guy lived up here. Like even at roll call, 00:27:50.430 --> 00:27:52.630 we were briefed. Hey, this is supposedly happening. 00:27:52.849 --> 00:27:58.329 He might come up here. Um, few hours later, like 00:27:58.329 --> 00:28:01.410 about six hours later into the night, they put 00:28:01.410 --> 00:28:04.529 out a house fire at the address where that guy 00:28:04.529 --> 00:28:08.450 lived, where the suspected boyfriend lived. Um, 00:28:08.549 --> 00:28:13.420 we got there. Um, There was a guy with a gun 00:28:13.420 --> 00:28:16.220 out in front watching it burn, which it was the 00:28:16.220 --> 00:28:19.380 murder suspect set this guy's house on fire, 00:28:19.480 --> 00:28:22.799 was out there. Had a brief standoff with him 00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:24.299 for a little bit. He took off running through 00:28:24.299 --> 00:28:28.140 the neighborhood back towards the fire where 00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:30.819 the firemen were actively working. Me and two 00:28:30.819 --> 00:28:33.460 other guys were given a pursuit, kind of cutting 00:28:33.460 --> 00:28:36.900 them off. As I went between two houses, he hid 00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:40.839 behind like an outside air conditioner. and he 00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:43.279 started letting it loose on me as I was going 00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:45.119 in between the houses, so I had to go prone. 00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:48.460 He was shooting over me. My partner, Scooter, 00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:52.319 started letting it eat over top of me. He's telling 00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:54.619 me he's behind the air conditioner, and so Scooter 00:28:54.619 --> 00:28:56.279 was just putting rounds into that air conditioner, 00:28:56.380 --> 00:29:00.619 trying to keep him from coming out. And so then 00:29:00.619 --> 00:29:03.519 I was able to kind of backtrack out, get around 00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:05.460 the house, get the angle. I can see him around 00:29:05.460 --> 00:29:07.579 the other side of the air conditioner, so I started 00:29:07.579 --> 00:29:12.319 putting rounds into him. on that side so it was 00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:15.180 a good one it was a it was like a movie you know 00:29:15.180 --> 00:29:17.279 you're in a neighborhood fire they got a big 00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:20.680 fire going it was wild yeah well i mean thank 00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:22.519 you for that i mean you definitely uh spared 00:29:22.519 --> 00:29:24.559 some firefighter lives probably too because i 00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:27.200 mean a number of calls that we've as a nation 00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:29.000 have been on you know where a gangbanger has 00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:30.759 come back to finish the job and they've killed 00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:33.259 paramedics or doctors or nurses so yeah that 00:29:33.259 --> 00:29:35.500 could have been horrendous So one thing that's 00:29:35.500 --> 00:29:37.680 always intriguing to me, because again, there's 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:40.460 clearly a mental health issue when it comes to 00:29:40.460 --> 00:29:44.099 someone that discovers their loved one is cheating, 00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:45.839 if that was the case. And this happened to me, 00:29:45.859 --> 00:29:47.799 and I didn't go and kill everyone in my neighborhood 00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:51.160 in response to that. In all this desperation 00:29:51.160 --> 00:29:53.000 and all this violence that you've witnessed through 00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:57.039 your career, have you noticed any common denominators 00:29:57.039 --> 00:29:59.220 of how these people are getting to this point? 00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:03.569 I don't think so. I mean, it's just different 00:30:03.569 --> 00:30:06.970 levels of different people. I've been involved 00:30:06.970 --> 00:30:09.210 in a bunch of different shootings and just all 00:30:09.210 --> 00:30:11.569 different walks of life and how they get involved 00:30:11.569 --> 00:30:15.390 in it. And I just understand that there's evil 00:30:15.390 --> 00:30:17.990 in this world and there's good people here to 00:30:17.990 --> 00:30:20.710 fight it. And that's kind of how you got to think 00:30:20.710 --> 00:30:23.750 about it. Like, I don't care why they do it. 00:30:23.769 --> 00:30:28.190 I know it exists. You know what I mean? And I'll 00:30:28.190 --> 00:30:30.609 just, if God puts me in front of it, I'll handle 00:30:30.609 --> 00:31:00.400 it. Absolutely. I think this is the thing. i'll 00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:02.740 tell you what i think kicked off like the large 00:31:02.740 --> 00:31:06.420 militaristic of law enforcement is the militaristic 00:31:06.420 --> 00:31:08.920 of criminals and that was the onset of crack 00:31:08.920 --> 00:31:13.500 cocaine crack cocaine changed the narcotics game 00:31:13.500 --> 00:31:17.160 it used to be you know you'd go buy weed or quaaludes 00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:19.480 at the bar or you know what i mean it was there 00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:21.839 was not a trap house there was not fortified 00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:25.859 entries they were not protecting it it was that 00:31:25.859 --> 00:31:28.059 so when you start militarizing and you start 00:31:28.059 --> 00:31:31.400 making strongholds Well, we got to still defeat 00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:34.839 that. So we got to up our games. I mean, that's 00:31:34.839 --> 00:31:39.339 all that's happening. When drugs get violent, 00:31:39.500 --> 00:31:42.859 then you got to answer violence with violence. 00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:46.579 That's the only thing that you can control it 00:31:46.579 --> 00:31:50.619 with. I mean, you can do the programs to like 00:31:50.619 --> 00:31:54.079 stop, like kind of stop the need for it. But 00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:56.180 the only thing that stops violence once violence 00:31:56.180 --> 00:32:01.059 goes is violence. Absolutely. Well, this is always 00:32:01.059 --> 00:32:03.039 an interesting question to ask anyone in law 00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:07.079 enforcement because you are the men and women 00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:10.579 that were told to enforce laws, you know, period. 00:32:11.740 --> 00:32:15.140 When I look at the time I spent in uniform, there 00:32:15.140 --> 00:32:18.509 were so many... kind of uh ripple effects of 00:32:18.509 --> 00:32:21.269 the failure of drug prohibition in general you 00:32:21.269 --> 00:32:23.690 know the empowerment of drugs in the under underworld 00:32:23.690 --> 00:32:26.309 and you know the immigration issues and some 00:32:26.309 --> 00:32:28.369 of the the cartels you know the homelessness 00:32:28.369 --> 00:32:32.009 the sex work you know goes on and on and on and 00:32:32.009 --> 00:32:34.529 there are places in other parts of the world 00:32:34.529 --> 00:32:37.730 now where they had the same kind of issue tried 00:32:37.730 --> 00:32:40.890 our model the american model decided it didn't 00:32:40.890 --> 00:32:44.380 work and then ended up taking the addicts i'm 00:32:44.380 --> 00:32:45.920 not talking about the smugglers i'm not talking 00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:47.720 about the dealers but the addicts and they put 00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:49.559 them in the hands of the medical community rather 00:32:49.559 --> 00:32:53.579 than arresting them but with that and this is 00:32:53.579 --> 00:32:56.539 an important point also gave a lot of funding 00:32:56.539 --> 00:32:59.519 to mental health counseling addiction counseling 00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:03.019 job creation housing and it wasn't even forcing 00:33:03.019 --> 00:33:05.240 them into doing it it was educating them that 00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:07.400 they had this opportunity portugal is a great 00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:10.410 example of this And they revolutionized addiction 00:33:10.410 --> 00:33:12.410 in their country. And then the law enforcement 00:33:12.410 --> 00:33:15.849 and the court system was freed up to really start 00:33:15.849 --> 00:33:19.049 hitting the dealers and the smugglers. That being 00:33:19.049 --> 00:33:21.589 said, that's my opinion. That's what I think 00:33:21.589 --> 00:33:24.470 is something that we could consider in the future. 00:33:24.829 --> 00:33:27.509 Without loading the question, though, what is 00:33:27.509 --> 00:33:31.170 your perception on the success of war on drugs? 00:33:31.349 --> 00:33:33.990 And would you change anything and do it differently? 00:33:37.690 --> 00:33:39.750 We're, we're losing it. You know what I mean? 00:33:39.769 --> 00:33:45.829 Like, and the thing is with drugs, make them 00:33:45.829 --> 00:33:47.730 illegal or not illegal. You know what I mean? 00:33:47.750 --> 00:33:50.470 Like there's, you can't bounce around with it. 00:33:50.609 --> 00:33:53.890 I'm all for getting people treatment and all 00:33:53.890 --> 00:33:55.990 that. But what about the crimes they committed? 00:33:57.650 --> 00:34:00.130 People are saying, well, I'm a drug addict. Well, 00:34:00.190 --> 00:34:03.349 cool. You robbed somebody. I don't care about 00:34:03.349 --> 00:34:06.289 your drugs at that point. And I mean, like you 00:34:06.289 --> 00:34:07.890 talked about mental health, the mental health 00:34:07.890 --> 00:34:11.829 system in the United States is broken. We, we 00:34:11.829 --> 00:34:16.250 think that calling somebody a crazy person offends 00:34:16.250 --> 00:34:18.110 them. And like, you can't offend, you know what 00:34:18.110 --> 00:34:20.849 I mean? Like it's, it's off the rock. Like, no, 00:34:20.949 --> 00:34:23.110 they're crazy. Like, you know what I mean? We've 00:34:23.110 --> 00:34:25.349 gotten rid of loony bins. Like we don't have 00:34:25.349 --> 00:34:27.329 them anymore. You know what I mean? Unless you're 00:34:27.329 --> 00:34:29.349 criminally insane, but there are people like, 00:34:29.369 --> 00:34:31.650 so like you have to look at like, where is our 00:34:31.650 --> 00:34:33.980 homeless people? Our homeless people. probably 00:34:33.980 --> 00:34:36.420 have drug or mental health issues. It's not a 00:34:36.420 --> 00:34:39.739 job issue. It's not a lack of job or a lack of 00:34:39.739 --> 00:34:41.739 money. You can give them all the money they want 00:34:41.739 --> 00:34:44.800 and they'll hide it in a tin can or something 00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:46.659 and sleep in a tent. And you know what I mean? 00:34:46.780 --> 00:34:51.699 It's because they're not fit to live by themselves. 00:34:51.940 --> 00:34:54.800 And people, I don't think that sometimes our 00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:56.780 family structure breaks down and we don't take 00:34:56.780 --> 00:34:59.340 care of people like we should take care of. That 00:34:59.340 --> 00:35:01.260 mentally ill person's our father. Yeah, it's 00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:04.619 hard on us. but they give up on them and they 00:35:04.619 --> 00:35:06.539 put them somewhere else you know what i mean 00:35:06.539 --> 00:35:10.179 yeah it's it's we don't have the family structure 00:35:10.179 --> 00:35:14.900 nor the that to to deal with and calling someone 00:35:14.900 --> 00:35:18.659 crazy or because they are crazy is is legitimate 00:35:18.659 --> 00:35:20.920 like i don't care about your feelings you know 00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:24.400 i mean so Well, that's what I find. What I understand, 00:35:24.519 --> 00:35:27.360 the reason why homelessness got so bad in the 00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:29.179 States was exactly like you talked about, because 00:35:29.179 --> 00:35:31.900 they shut all the psychiatric facilities. And 00:35:31.900 --> 00:35:34.239 a lot of those people ended up homeless. You 00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:36.699 have obviously people that are being released 00:35:36.699 --> 00:35:39.800 from prisons that, you know. Again, probably 00:35:39.800 --> 00:35:42.340 a lot of them still had access to drugs at that 00:35:42.340 --> 00:35:45.539 point, and then they're not given an address. 00:35:45.699 --> 00:35:47.659 So then you've got this compounding element is 00:35:47.659 --> 00:35:49.280 what I'm trying to say. It's not a victim mentality 00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:52.639 at all. And again, certainly with the crimes 00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:55.440 associated with addiction, that's a separate 00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:58.400 conversation, 100%. Those still have to be penalized. 00:35:59.690 --> 00:36:02.250 Taking that kind of altruistic model, and again, 00:36:02.429 --> 00:36:04.210 you're not going to get all of them. This is 00:36:04.210 --> 00:36:07.010 another important point. But that large portion 00:36:07.010 --> 00:36:09.510 in the middle that you can just steer back into 00:36:09.510 --> 00:36:12.730 mental health to find their feet again and get 00:36:12.730 --> 00:36:17.510 them a job and get them some housing, this is 00:36:17.510 --> 00:36:19.190 what they found in a lot of these other nations. 00:36:19.289 --> 00:36:21.670 But what you and I have seen on the streets, 00:36:21.849 --> 00:36:24.250 the way that we're doing it now is not working, 00:36:24.289 --> 00:36:27.070 and it's making it more and more dangerous for 00:36:27.070 --> 00:36:31.559 our first responders. one 150 it's getting more 00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:35.480 dangerous i mean it's getting the courts are 00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:40.219 more lenient so you you get away with this you're 00:36:40.219 --> 00:36:42.500 gonna go to this go to this go to this and then 00:36:42.500 --> 00:36:46.820 you just get sick and tired of it and you know 00:36:46.820 --> 00:36:51.619 and the attacks on law enforcement and just the 00:36:51.619 --> 00:36:54.960 lack of respect for like law enforcement like 00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:58.139 slapping a policeman When I started, you would 00:36:58.139 --> 00:37:00.900 go to prison. You know what I mean? If you were 00:37:00.900 --> 00:37:03.000 outside of a bar and you were just some drunk 00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:05.980 whatever and you hit a policeman, you battered 00:37:05.980 --> 00:37:07.780 a law enforcement officer, you were going to 00:37:07.780 --> 00:37:11.760 prison for a short period or you were going to 00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:16.260 do some freaking time. Now they look at us like, 00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:18.280 well, it's kind of your job to get hit. No, it's 00:37:18.280 --> 00:37:20.719 not our job to get hit. Once you allow these 00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:23.780 things to go on forever, then it becomes culturally 00:37:23.780 --> 00:37:27.230 acceptable. I don't really like... having law 00:37:27.230 --> 00:37:30.670 enforcement in our schools like our sros how 00:37:30.670 --> 00:37:33.590 they currently are because i feel like you inoculate 00:37:33.590 --> 00:37:37.510 kids to the presence of law enforcement like 00:37:37.510 --> 00:37:40.130 i when i was a kid i never saw a policeman you 00:37:40.130 --> 00:37:42.510 know what i mean unless i was in trouble or like 00:37:42.510 --> 00:37:45.949 you knew how to act they're not your friend they 00:37:45.949 --> 00:37:48.829 are there they are the authority they are the 00:37:48.829 --> 00:37:52.530 rule it's almost like you know teachers are your 00:37:52.530 --> 00:37:57.360 mom And police officers are your dad. If you 00:37:57.360 --> 00:37:59.059 were getting in trouble, yeah, I'll talk to my 00:37:59.059 --> 00:38:01.380 mom a certain way. But when my dad walked in 00:38:01.380 --> 00:38:02.599 the room, you're like, all right, never mind. 00:38:02.679 --> 00:38:04.920 Yes, sir. You know what I mean? It changes you. 00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:09.420 So there has to be that level there. And I also 00:38:09.420 --> 00:38:13.400 feel like they make police officers in schools 00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:17.380 become rule enforcement officers and not law 00:38:17.380 --> 00:38:20.219 enforcement officers. You know what I mean? And 00:38:20.219 --> 00:38:24.510 that shouldn't be how it is. I'm not there. to 00:38:24.510 --> 00:38:26.849 deal with those kids. I'm there to protect those 00:38:26.849 --> 00:38:30.250 kids from an active shooter or anybody coming 00:38:30.250 --> 00:38:33.389 in there. And I'm also there to put kids in jail 00:38:33.389 --> 00:38:36.969 for doing criminal acts on school campus. That 00:38:36.969 --> 00:38:40.570 is it. I'm not there to lecture them or talk 00:38:40.570 --> 00:38:45.150 to them about things. That's not a law enforcement 00:38:45.150 --> 00:38:47.210 officer's job. And they keep giving us these 00:38:47.210 --> 00:38:49.949 more jobs of, you know, you have to be the counselor 00:38:49.949 --> 00:38:53.190 and this and that with everybody. But that's... 00:38:53.610 --> 00:38:56.349 That's not really the job. Well, I had a really 00:38:56.349 --> 00:38:58.889 bad experience with an SRO and a principal, my 00:38:58.889 --> 00:39:02.130 son's middle school, and uncovered the fact that 00:39:02.130 --> 00:39:04.570 they were Baker acting kids left, right, and 00:39:04.570 --> 00:39:07.530 fucking center. Anytime the kid had any sort 00:39:07.530 --> 00:39:09.989 of kind of emotional response, they were shipping 00:39:09.989 --> 00:39:12.590 them off for a 20, excuse me, a 72 hour hold. 00:39:12.969 --> 00:39:14.929 And I didn't realize that this was a national 00:39:14.929 --> 00:39:17.070 conversation. I think actually, I want to say 00:39:17.070 --> 00:39:19.710 Tampa, especially was one of the biggest voices. 00:39:21.130 --> 00:39:23.510 And then what ended up happening is they changed 00:39:23.510 --> 00:39:27.090 the rules. So now if that happened, there was 00:39:27.090 --> 00:39:31.989 a consequence. Because when I went to the sheriff's 00:39:31.989 --> 00:39:35.030 office and the school system, the school blamed 00:39:35.030 --> 00:39:36.789 the sheriff and the sheriff blamed the school. 00:39:36.849 --> 00:39:39.909 It was fucking nauseating. And because you add 00:39:39.909 --> 00:39:43.630 to the fact that you then get seemingly, in some 00:39:43.630 --> 00:39:46.650 cases, some of the worst police officers sent 00:39:46.650 --> 00:39:49.639 to our schools. who not only have no backbone, 00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:52.039 God forbid you do get a shooter, but are also 00:39:52.039 --> 00:39:55.440 making horrendous decisions like this. So I think 00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:57.400 the right kind of person can be an asset in the 00:39:57.400 --> 00:39:59.739 school, but the wrong kind of person can destroy 00:39:59.739 --> 00:40:03.800 a school. 100%. Well, they're not going to put 00:40:03.800 --> 00:40:05.579 the right kind of person in a school. They're 00:40:05.579 --> 00:40:08.199 going to put the wrong kind of... Because, I 00:40:08.199 --> 00:40:11.159 mean, I've gotten into it with SROs too, because 00:40:11.159 --> 00:40:13.019 they feel like they work for the principal of 00:40:13.019 --> 00:40:15.139 that school. You know what I mean? I'm like, 00:40:15.179 --> 00:40:17.019 no, you work for the sheriff. You work like, 00:40:17.079 --> 00:40:19.059 you know what I mean? Like you don't work for 00:40:19.059 --> 00:40:22.000 the school board. You don't work for, you work 00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:24.000 for, you are a law enforcement and they don't, 00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:26.519 they don't get it. Like it's a lot of times, 00:40:26.539 --> 00:40:28.380 like when we'd work off duty, like sometimes 00:40:28.380 --> 00:40:31.519 I'd work off duty, like at a hospital, you know, 00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:34.340 they're like, Hey, they call me into the ER. 00:40:34.460 --> 00:40:38.039 I need you to tell this person to be quiet. I'm 00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:39.699 like, all right, well, are we going to kick him 00:40:39.699 --> 00:40:43.389 out of here if he's not? And they're like, well, 00:40:43.429 --> 00:40:45.050 no, we can't do that. I was like, then I'm not 00:40:45.050 --> 00:40:47.329 telling him to be quiet. You know what I mean? 00:40:47.630 --> 00:40:49.170 They're like, why can't you? I'm like, I'm a 00:40:49.170 --> 00:40:51.969 law enforcement officer. So if I go there and 00:40:51.969 --> 00:40:53.289 tell him to be quiet and he looks at me and says, 00:40:53.409 --> 00:40:58.050 fuck you. What's my next step? You know, without 00:40:58.050 --> 00:41:01.349 having a law that's being broke, I got to tuck 00:41:01.349 --> 00:41:03.130 my tail. All right. Thank you, sir. Thank you 00:41:03.130 --> 00:41:06.630 for talking to me. That's not how it's and people 00:41:06.630 --> 00:41:08.769 get mad because they're, will we pay you? I was 00:41:08.769 --> 00:41:10.590 like, no, that's not what you pay me for. You 00:41:10.590 --> 00:41:13.239 know what I mean? I am not. there to intimidate 00:41:13.239 --> 00:41:16.920 somebody i'm not there to show if i better have 00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:19.739 a reason to talk to you a legal reason to talk 00:41:19.739 --> 00:41:22.239 to you before i go up there and do it and like 00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:24.260 that's the same thing with these schools you 00:41:24.260 --> 00:41:27.559 know i mean it's sros feel they work for the 00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:31.260 school that principal and their rules not what 00:41:31.260 --> 00:41:35.440 you know even their agencies general orders say 00:41:36.349 --> 00:41:38.429 Well, while we're on the topic, yesterday, obviously, 00:41:38.610 --> 00:41:41.570 there was a couple of horrendous shootings. Charlie 00:41:41.570 --> 00:41:44.389 Kirk was assassinated, for lack of a better word. 00:41:44.510 --> 00:41:47.050 And then we had a shoot in Evergreen High School 00:41:47.050 --> 00:41:50.489 in Colorado as well. So while we're on this topic, 00:41:50.949 --> 00:41:55.369 what do you think is the best model for this 00:41:55.369 --> 00:41:57.829 kind of violence crisis that we have at the moment 00:41:57.829 --> 00:42:00.730 in our schools, as far as whether it's SROs, 00:42:00.730 --> 00:42:02.809 armed teachers, or any other suggestions that 00:42:02.809 --> 00:42:06.940 you've got? I mean, I'm all for arming teachers 00:42:06.940 --> 00:42:08.860 if they want to and they want to go through the 00:42:08.860 --> 00:42:11.260 training and do things, because at least that's 00:42:11.260 --> 00:42:13.659 somebody that wants to be there and wants to 00:42:13.659 --> 00:42:16.280 put forth the protection, you know, that they're 00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:20.039 doing. I'm all for arming teachers. I don't think 00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:26.139 it's a. I mean, the best thing to do would rotate 00:42:26.139 --> 00:42:31.219 guys like really put. And you're not going to 00:42:31.219 --> 00:42:32.820 do it because the meat eaters don't want to go 00:42:32.820 --> 00:42:35.769 sit in the school. You know what I mean? It would 00:42:35.769 --> 00:42:41.050 almost have to be a duty aside from your normal 00:42:41.050 --> 00:42:43.909 job. And it'd be a short, short term. Like I'm 00:42:43.909 --> 00:42:46.449 going to sign you there for two weeks and you 00:42:46.449 --> 00:42:49.349 are not doing any SRO. Like you're not, but the, 00:42:49.369 --> 00:42:52.369 that principal won't let that happen. Like, I 00:42:52.369 --> 00:42:54.969 don't need you to walk in the halls. Like I need 00:42:54.969 --> 00:42:58.110 you patrolling outside and able to respond inside 00:42:58.110 --> 00:43:02.989 quickly and quickly and deadly. and that your 00:43:02.989 --> 00:43:07.030 only job there is to do those type things but 00:43:07.030 --> 00:43:12.170 it gets very very monotonous because i mean the 00:43:12.170 --> 00:43:15.849 chances of it happening are very rare but that's 00:43:15.849 --> 00:43:17.849 why you just got to kind of put dudes in maybe 00:43:17.849 --> 00:43:20.789 like on a couple week rotations but that should 00:43:20.789 --> 00:43:24.110 not be their job because they're they too will 00:43:24.110 --> 00:43:26.579 get complacent yeah I mean, this is, I would 00:43:26.579 --> 00:43:28.360 look at when I was a firefighter, I didn't want 00:43:28.360 --> 00:43:30.219 to be in the quiet places. I wanted to be in 00:43:30.219 --> 00:43:32.699 the hood my whole career until the last place. 00:43:32.699 --> 00:43:35.300 I didn't really have a hood, but, but yeah, but 00:43:35.300 --> 00:43:36.699 that's a good idea because I mean, if you are 00:43:36.699 --> 00:43:39.179 rotating through, then a lot of the, you know, 00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:40.820 the people that would be at the tip of the spear 00:43:40.820 --> 00:43:42.940 are also then going to be familiar with the layout 00:43:42.940 --> 00:43:45.699 of the school and exits and windows. So I could 00:43:45.699 --> 00:43:48.539 see how a rotation actually would be an asset 00:43:48.539 --> 00:43:51.679 for the first team that's responding to. Yeah. 00:43:53.500 --> 00:43:56.150 And I mean, you look at these, active shooters 00:43:56.150 --> 00:44:00.329 and all that man it's the same kids we stuffed 00:44:00.329 --> 00:44:02.650 in a closet or in the lockers you know don't 00:44:02.650 --> 00:44:04.929 be scared of them they're not john rambo they're 00:44:04.929 --> 00:44:07.429 not some terrorist supercell it's not the attack 00:44:07.429 --> 00:44:12.789 of beslan just get after it go get them and put 00:44:12.789 --> 00:44:15.170 them in put them in davey jones's locker you 00:44:15.170 --> 00:44:17.570 know what i mean that's all you got to do is 00:44:17.570 --> 00:44:21.369 just be ready to attack and get after them i 00:44:21.369 --> 00:44:23.309 mean you've trained all over the country you 00:44:23.309 --> 00:44:25.760 have your own training group When you look at 00:44:25.760 --> 00:44:29.179 some of these failures of that, Parkland, Duvaldi, 00:44:29.260 --> 00:44:32.340 et cetera, what are you seeing culturally that's 00:44:32.340 --> 00:44:36.619 creating that kind of circumstance in the first 00:44:36.619 --> 00:44:42.679 place? Cowardism. If you allow cowardism, you 00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:47.659 will get cowardism. Duvaldi was cowards. You 00:44:47.659 --> 00:44:50.500 saw them go up. They made it to that door. They 00:44:50.500 --> 00:44:53.000 were doing good things. And then they were challenged. 00:44:53.710 --> 00:44:56.750 by gunfire and they ran away and then they started 00:44:56.750 --> 00:45:00.469 making excuses why they ran away and why they 00:45:00.469 --> 00:45:02.969 did it and tried to make it into a tactical decision 00:45:02.969 --> 00:45:05.710 why they ran out of there they were pure cowards 00:45:05.710 --> 00:45:09.489 parkland was a coward people showed up and went 00:45:09.489 --> 00:45:15.769 to do work and instead of bringing out how great 00:45:15.769 --> 00:45:18.860 people were that did the work They concentrate 00:45:18.860 --> 00:45:21.380 kind of on the lower of who didn't do the work. 00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:23.340 But there are several people there that didn't 00:45:23.340 --> 00:45:26.039 do the work. You know what I mean? Like when 00:45:26.039 --> 00:45:30.119 you watch Uvalde, because they kept putting out, 00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:33.219 well, he's barricaded. Those Bortak guys, they 00:45:33.219 --> 00:45:36.639 didn't know that there was people shot inside 00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:39.530 that room, right? Yeah, he's barricaded, but 00:45:39.530 --> 00:45:42.250 they're on a timeline right now where the people 00:45:42.250 --> 00:45:44.769 are bleeding out and dying in that room and we 00:45:44.769 --> 00:45:47.429 need to get in there. And you watch like a BORTAC 00:45:47.429 --> 00:45:49.750 team leader, like they're in a little talk and 00:45:49.750 --> 00:45:51.489 you kind of see him walk away and he walks back 00:45:51.489 --> 00:45:53.550 and you can almost like, you can see it on his 00:45:53.550 --> 00:45:55.710 face. He's like, what? There's people in there. 00:45:55.849 --> 00:45:58.210 And then he literally was like, fellas, get up, 00:45:58.269 --> 00:46:00.630 let's go. And those dudes went in there and handled 00:46:00.630 --> 00:46:03.269 business because those guys were ready to do 00:46:03.269 --> 00:46:06.070 work, understood the mission and were ready to 00:46:06.070 --> 00:46:08.769 die for that mission. And that's the people that 00:46:08.769 --> 00:46:11.369 you have to go do it. And they handle that situation 00:46:11.369 --> 00:46:17.989 appropriately. So culturally, and I see this 00:46:17.989 --> 00:46:20.449 is what worries me about the bar being lowered, 00:46:20.510 --> 00:46:22.730 fitness standards being lowered, is when you 00:46:22.730 --> 00:46:25.590 have a crucible and you have a high demand in 00:46:25.590 --> 00:46:29.369 a first responder profession, where you're taking 00:46:29.369 --> 00:46:33.409 the top five, 10 % of an entire list, the chances 00:46:33.409 --> 00:46:36.000 of getting the right kind of person. Increased 00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:38.440 dramatically when you lower standards, when you 00:46:38.440 --> 00:46:40.579 have no fitness standards, I feel like you're 00:46:40.579 --> 00:46:42.739 opening barn doors then for the wrong kind of 00:46:42.739 --> 00:46:47.940 person as well. What do we do to turn this around 00:46:47.940 --> 00:46:50.880 where the chances of having someone without the 00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:53.599 backbone for the profession being at our child's 00:46:53.599 --> 00:47:00.300 school is diminished significantly? Man, it just 00:47:00.300 --> 00:47:02.179 goes to the culture of law enforcement. I don't 00:47:02.179 --> 00:47:05.559 think it, I mean, I don't think you can. Like 00:47:05.559 --> 00:47:10.000 we're not too far gone, but it's just like with 00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:13.840 any job, man, 10 % do 90 % of the work, you know 00:47:13.840 --> 00:47:16.519 what I mean? And they don't want to get stuck 00:47:16.519 --> 00:47:23.119 in a, in a, and I mean, everybody gets a trophy 00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:27.400 mint, all that stuff comes back to where we're 00:47:27.400 --> 00:47:33.480 at today, that they try to diminish men and, 00:47:33.519 --> 00:47:36.420 and, people being meat eaters and getting after 00:47:36.420 --> 00:47:39.139 it and not just men being men but women even 00:47:39.139 --> 00:47:43.340 in like being a warrior you know doing these 00:47:43.340 --> 00:47:48.260 things a woman warrior is like very held high 00:47:48.260 --> 00:47:50.599 a man as a warrior that like oh you're just a 00:47:50.599 --> 00:47:52.360 piece of you know what i mean like it's a weird 00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:55.199 dynamic on what they're they're trying to do 00:47:55.199 --> 00:47:58.179 like you know you go girl or whatever like but 00:47:58.179 --> 00:48:00.420 a dude doing the same thing and with that same 00:48:00.420 --> 00:48:04.949 mindset and that same I mean, I guess probably 00:48:04.949 --> 00:48:08.829 because we are more dangerous than they are or 00:48:08.829 --> 00:48:11.449 what, but it's one of those things that it's 00:48:11.449 --> 00:48:15.949 just a huge society thing. And it's not in law 00:48:15.949 --> 00:48:18.389 enforcement. It's in the world. It's in just 00:48:18.389 --> 00:48:21.289 how it is. It's not just law enforcement. We 00:48:21.289 --> 00:48:25.349 are, we are a, you know, a reflection of what 00:48:25.349 --> 00:48:27.449 the world is today. You know what I mean? And 00:48:27.449 --> 00:48:30.030 if the world, and I feel like we lost it in law 00:48:30.030 --> 00:48:34.099 enforcement a lot because, and probably in, And 00:48:34.099 --> 00:48:37.820 firefighters too, you know, September 11, 2001 00:48:37.820 --> 00:48:40.500 changed a lot of things. If I wasn't already 00:48:40.500 --> 00:48:42.820 on the job, I would probably have been in the 00:48:42.820 --> 00:48:45.699 military. Because you just get that calling and 00:48:45.699 --> 00:48:47.780 we've got a lot of men and women who got that 00:48:47.780 --> 00:48:49.880 calling to go to the military to fight for our 00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:53.659 country. Hopefully we start getting those guys 00:48:53.659 --> 00:48:57.960 back, but we changed during that time. And now 00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:01.159 who wants to be part of that shit? You know what 00:49:01.159 --> 00:49:04.760 I mean? Who wants to? Get bashed on camera, get 00:49:04.760 --> 00:49:08.039 a cell phone shoved in your face, not backed 00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:10.460 by law enforcement, not backed by your command 00:49:10.460 --> 00:49:13.420 staff. You know what I mean? And I feel terrible, 00:49:13.539 --> 00:49:17.840 man, but I've just always worked for good sheriffs. 00:49:17.860 --> 00:49:19.900 The sheriff of Jacksonville right now, he backs 00:49:19.900 --> 00:49:22.380 his guys when they do wrong, he puts them down. 00:49:22.420 --> 00:49:23.960 But when he does right, he lets people know, 00:49:24.099 --> 00:49:27.559 you know, violence doesn't look good. Like that's 00:49:27.559 --> 00:49:31.380 what I think is a bad part of body cameras is. 00:49:32.030 --> 00:49:33.889 When you shoot somebody and you write a report 00:49:33.889 --> 00:49:36.289 and it reflects exactly when someone reads something, 00:49:36.530 --> 00:49:40.170 they don't have that emotional reaction to it. 00:49:40.210 --> 00:49:42.550 Because nobody wants to watch another person 00:49:42.550 --> 00:49:48.389 die. You know what I mean? It creates a physical 00:49:48.389 --> 00:49:54.150 reaction. And if I'm in a job to fix that, if 00:49:54.150 --> 00:49:56.389 I get that reaction, that must feel like it's 00:49:56.389 --> 00:50:00.539 wrong. It's not wrong. It's just... It is what 00:50:00.539 --> 00:50:03.059 it is. So it's easier to kind of read things 00:50:03.059 --> 00:50:08.639 and say, okay, that worked. But seeing it is 00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:12.199 bad for them. That's one thing I've heard from 00:50:12.199 --> 00:50:14.039 some of the canine guys I've had on the show. 00:50:14.099 --> 00:50:17.639 Mike Goosby is a good example. He's an LA PD 00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:22.199 guru, like canine guru. My brain's not working 00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:25.239 today, probably. And he's talking about the optics 00:50:25.239 --> 00:50:28.000 of the canine program. And yet, of course, when 00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:30.380 someone's got their arm in a German Shepherd 00:50:30.380 --> 00:50:33.699 or Malinois' mouth, it doesn't look great. But 00:50:33.699 --> 00:50:36.000 firstly, when you hear the percentage of bites 00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:39.920 in a canine officer's career, it's not very many 00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:42.380 at all. And then you look at the alternative. 00:50:42.539 --> 00:50:44.500 Well, if they couldn't use a dog, then they're 00:50:44.500 --> 00:50:46.480 probably going to have to use lethal force. So 00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:48.500 it's safer for the officer. It's safer for the 00:50:48.500 --> 00:50:50.179 person that they're trying to pursue as well. 00:50:50.360 --> 00:50:52.619 But again, that's a middle of the road, common 00:50:52.619 --> 00:50:55.679 sense conversation, and it doesn't fit the extremes 00:50:55.679 --> 00:51:00.099 of either side. Right. And you're right. But 00:51:00.099 --> 00:51:03.280 writing a canine report is different than watching 00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:06.579 a dog do it. You know what I mean? And because, 00:51:06.780 --> 00:51:10.659 you know, what? They feel like, well, they couldn't 00:51:10.659 --> 00:51:13.000 get that dog off. Well, it's a dog. You know 00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:15.400 what I mean? Like it's the really, it's the best 00:51:15.400 --> 00:51:17.840 trained dog in, you know, some in the world, 00:51:17.860 --> 00:51:20.199 but it's still a dog. You might have to get them 00:51:20.199 --> 00:51:21.920 to release. You might have to do, and the people 00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:26.320 don't like to see those things happen, but it 00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:27.940 is what it is. You know what I mean? It's got 00:51:27.940 --> 00:51:34.219 to happen. And it's just, it's just, that's the 00:51:34.219 --> 00:51:36.039 nature that we're at now. And now people just 00:51:36.039 --> 00:51:37.800 don't want to put, put hands on people or do 00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:42.070 anything. Because of different crazy politicians 00:51:42.070 --> 00:51:45.530 trying to use law enforcement as one of their 00:51:45.530 --> 00:51:51.110 own pawns. Yeah, exactly. Well, speaking of significant 00:51:51.110 --> 00:51:56.019 events, let's go to January 26, 2008. It sounds 00:51:56.019 --> 00:51:58.760 to me like the beginning of this was quite a 00:51:58.760 --> 00:52:02.760 benign event compared to some of the high -level 00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:06.000 events that you've responded to prior. So how 00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:08.440 did that day begin for you and then walk us through 00:52:08.440 --> 00:52:14.119 it? So, man, I was working off -duty at a mall, 00:52:14.260 --> 00:52:19.420 but I've worked every Saturday for years. And 00:52:19.420 --> 00:52:22.539 started with a shoplifter. We got out there. 00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:26.980 Me and my partner got out there. One of the shoplifters 00:52:26.980 --> 00:52:29.539 was fighting loss prevention. One of them ran 00:52:29.539 --> 00:52:33.900 off. By the time we got there, they were dusting 00:52:33.900 --> 00:52:35.480 off the guy who fought, and they're like, hey, 00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:37.480 the black guy also stole something. We want him 00:52:37.480 --> 00:52:39.460 apprehended. I look across the parking lot, me 00:52:39.460 --> 00:52:42.619 and my partner, and we see a guy about 75 yards 00:52:42.619 --> 00:52:45.820 across the parking lot at a bus stop, but he's 00:52:45.820 --> 00:52:49.900 kind of separated himself, and he sees us see 00:52:49.900 --> 00:52:52.539 him. That big aha moment, he takes off running. 00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:56.880 We give chase. We chase them across Arlington 00:52:56.880 --> 00:52:59.059 expressway, which is like a six lane highway 00:52:59.059 --> 00:53:01.159 about seven 40 at night. So that was a little 00:53:01.159 --> 00:53:03.840 bit of frogger to get across there and into a 00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:07.019 shopping center. And he ran to the shopping center 00:53:07.019 --> 00:53:09.119 as we cut through the parking lot. So we were 00:53:09.119 --> 00:53:10.940 able to like, kind of, we were heading them off 00:53:10.940 --> 00:53:14.940 at the pass. I saw his legs get like, like he 00:53:14.940 --> 00:53:17.320 got the wobble legs. I was like, Ooh, yeah, he's 00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:18.980 done. I was like, I'm gonna pick it up and go 00:53:18.980 --> 00:53:23.489 get them. So I picked up and ran. And when I 00:53:23.489 --> 00:53:26.030 got to the corner, I told him, you know, hey, 00:53:26.130 --> 00:53:28.389 stop running. You're now dealing with the police. 00:53:28.469 --> 00:53:31.010 This isn't, like, let's go back and handle this. 00:53:31.510 --> 00:53:33.289 And he turns around and looks at me and puts 00:53:33.289 --> 00:53:37.090 his hands up, but he doesn't say a word. He just 00:53:37.090 --> 00:53:39.769 keeps backpedaling. I tell him, stop, or I'm 00:53:39.769 --> 00:53:42.809 going to tase him. He starts running again. I 00:53:42.809 --> 00:53:46.550 attempt to tase him. Nothing happens. My taser 00:53:46.550 --> 00:53:50.210 malfunctions. So I have to safe that, go hands 00:53:50.210 --> 00:53:53.780 -on with him. We probably, as soon as I put my 00:53:53.780 --> 00:53:56.679 hands on him, like I grabbed his hood, he had 00:53:56.679 --> 00:53:59.460 a zip -up hooded sweatshirt. When I grabbed that 00:53:59.460 --> 00:54:01.699 hood, I was going to dump him to the ground. 00:54:02.460 --> 00:54:04.659 Well, as soon as I put my hood, he spun high 00:54:04.659 --> 00:54:07.219 and broke my grip, and then he came to rest with 00:54:07.219 --> 00:54:09.360 his hands tucked like this. And I was like, all 00:54:09.360 --> 00:54:12.239 right, well, we're fighting now. So we got into 00:54:12.239 --> 00:54:16.139 a brief physical fight, and then seconds into 00:54:16.139 --> 00:54:20.219 that, he produced a Glock 21 with a .45 caliber. 00:54:20.639 --> 00:54:23.920 glock and uh shot me through my chin exited out 00:54:23.920 --> 00:54:27.440 my neck hit my body armor here which that shot 00:54:27.440 --> 00:54:30.940 made me start rolling down like this embankment 00:54:30.940 --> 00:54:33.380 it was like at a like it was on top of a retention 00:54:33.380 --> 00:54:38.199 pond without any like so no water in it it was 00:54:38.199 --> 00:54:40.340 about 25 yards circumference about five feet 00:54:40.340 --> 00:54:42.500 deep so i'm rolling down that thinking all right 00:54:42.500 --> 00:54:44.860 he i thought he punched me because i never saw 00:54:44.860 --> 00:54:46.659 the gun i was like all right because it felt 00:54:46.659 --> 00:54:49.730 just like i heavy impact. I'm kind of dazed. 00:54:49.730 --> 00:54:51.829 And like, I'm telling myself, Hey, get up, get 00:54:51.829 --> 00:54:54.809 up, get up. But nothing's really working at speed 00:54:54.809 --> 00:54:59.110 that I needed to, except for my brain. And, you 00:54:59.110 --> 00:55:01.309 know, as I'm rolling, I can, I feel with my tongue 00:55:01.309 --> 00:55:06.869 and, um, my jaw has now collapsed on top of itself 00:55:06.869 --> 00:55:09.090 and my teeth are laying flattened in my mouth. 00:55:09.510 --> 00:55:11.250 So I was like, all right, something else is going 00:55:11.250 --> 00:55:13.510 on. And then I look up and he's standing over 00:55:13.510 --> 00:55:15.570 top of me shooting me. So like, that's when I 00:55:15.570 --> 00:55:18.480 realized I was in a gunfight. So as I'm like 00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:20.760 shaking off the cobwebs and he's going, he starts 00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:23.659 like walking away. And every time I move, he 00:55:23.659 --> 00:55:26.639 would shoot at me and he'd shoot at me. But when 00:55:26.639 --> 00:55:29.840 I drew my laying on my back and I drew my pistol 00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:32.059 strong hand only trying to get to my feet, I'm 00:55:32.059 --> 00:55:35.860 pushing off the ground and I start engaging him 00:55:35.860 --> 00:55:40.059 from my back. And as I'm engaging him, he starts 00:55:40.059 --> 00:55:42.079 coming back on me, trying to put me back down. 00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:45.139 So he's coming in. I knew I was getting good 00:55:45.139 --> 00:55:47.900 hits and I finally make it to my knees. as he 00:55:47.900 --> 00:55:50.380 closes in on me so i lunge up and i grab him 00:55:50.380 --> 00:55:54.119 and i pull him down to me like as like as we're 00:55:54.119 --> 00:55:55.980 falling to the ground as soon as we hit the ground 00:55:55.980 --> 00:55:57.719 i put my muzzle to his head and i give him three 00:55:57.719 --> 00:56:01.380 contact shots to his head ending that fight um 00:56:01.380 --> 00:56:05.500 so that ended it my partner came and did it i 00:56:05.500 --> 00:56:08.260 ended up taking a total of seven rounds so that 00:56:08.260 --> 00:56:10.679 one through my face i took three across my body 00:56:10.679 --> 00:56:13.699 armor in the front my left leg i took one above 00:56:13.699 --> 00:56:18.059 the knee exited out my hip Or exit up on my thigh, 00:56:18.440 --> 00:56:21.000 into my right buttock, took one into there. It 00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:23.659 hit my hip, broke my hip and lodged there. And 00:56:23.659 --> 00:56:29.699 then I took a graze of my right elbow. So before 00:56:29.699 --> 00:56:33.000 we get into what happened next, when you learned 00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:37.699 about this individual, what was his history that 00:56:37.699 --> 00:56:40.400 contributed to him having such a violent response 00:56:40.400 --> 00:56:45.159 to the arrest? I don't know. Nothing. he had 00:56:45.159 --> 00:56:49.539 one prior arrest before this for um trespass 00:56:49.539 --> 00:56:51.280 but it was like him and some friends went to 00:56:51.280 --> 00:56:54.840 a neighborhood under construction and once the 00:56:54.840 --> 00:56:56.940 power was they like went into a house and threw 00:56:56.940 --> 00:56:59.960 a keg party like he was not like i don't maybe 00:56:59.960 --> 00:57:03.739 his lack of criminal knowledge and he had a gun 00:57:03.739 --> 00:57:05.900 on him like maybe he thought it was going to 00:57:05.900 --> 00:57:08.300 be like he was going to prison but like you know 00:57:08.300 --> 00:57:10.199 street thugs know just to throw the gun down 00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:12.039 and be like that i don't know about that and 00:57:12.039 --> 00:57:16.309 then you know but so maybe his lack of the criminal 00:57:16.309 --> 00:57:20.789 justice system i mean i don't know and i don't 00:57:20.789 --> 00:57:22.750 care you know what i mean he made a decision 00:57:22.750 --> 00:57:28.530 and we got it on yeah so so talk to me about 00:57:28.530 --> 00:57:30.989 the next few hours initially i had one of my 00:57:30.989 --> 00:57:33.150 friends drew stokes on a while ago he was another 00:57:33.150 --> 00:57:36.809 guy shot in a public's parking lot um he's a 00:57:36.809 --> 00:57:40.960 uh coast guard um And, you know, he literally 00:57:40.960 --> 00:57:43.380 died on the operating table. So what was the 00:57:43.380 --> 00:57:47.820 trauma when they got you into the hospital? I 00:57:47.820 --> 00:57:51.760 mean, I never lost consciousness. I never did 00:57:51.760 --> 00:57:55.440 it like it was. I was ready to go to surgery, 00:57:55.579 --> 00:57:58.199 if that makes sense, because like the pain was 00:57:58.199 --> 00:58:01.199 still there and it would it would kind of not 00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:03.340 really come in waves, but it wasn't a sharp and 00:58:03.340 --> 00:58:06.559 it wasn't a crazy pain. But like it would just 00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:09.360 kind of like, man, I am tired. of hurting right 00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:12.780 now i would like to go to sleep and wake up fixed 00:58:12.780 --> 00:58:15.579 like that's kind of how i was in the you know 00:58:15.579 --> 00:58:20.559 i saw my family i talked to them i figured i 00:58:20.559 --> 00:58:22.420 was going to be all right if i made it into the 00:58:22.420 --> 00:58:24.500 operating table like they weren't rushing like 00:58:24.500 --> 00:58:26.699 i didn't have any major artery hits i didn't 00:58:26.699 --> 00:58:29.619 have anything crazy that they could see you know 00:58:29.619 --> 00:58:31.119 what i mean as they wheel me around at the test 00:58:31.119 --> 00:58:38.480 so um i didn't feel like i was gonna die Now, 00:58:38.559 --> 00:58:41.579 when I went into surgery, I got a really, really 00:58:41.579 --> 00:58:45.199 high fever. And they were worried I was going 00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:46.639 to die because they couldn't bring my fever. 00:58:46.699 --> 00:58:49.139 They didn't know what was going on with me. But 00:58:49.139 --> 00:58:51.639 I had no idea that happened because I was under 00:58:51.639 --> 00:58:54.360 anesthesia. So my family had to worry about that, 00:58:54.420 --> 00:58:57.900 not me. What was the background for the fever? 00:58:58.019 --> 00:59:03.920 That's unusual for trauma. I don't know. I don't 00:59:03.920 --> 00:59:09.030 know why it kicked in. That's what was keeping 00:59:09.030 --> 00:59:11.809 me in the ICU and stuff. I wonder if it was even 00:59:11.809 --> 00:59:14.949 the head injury that was sending off your thermoregulation 00:59:14.949 --> 00:59:21.630 or something. Yeah, I don't know. So you enter 00:59:21.630 --> 00:59:25.769 this shift fully capable, just thinking you're 00:59:25.769 --> 00:59:28.289 going to do another few hours in the mall. Now 00:59:28.289 --> 00:59:30.630 you've had this near -death experience. You've 00:59:30.630 --> 00:59:33.820 had your physicality taken away from you. you're 00:59:33.820 --> 00:59:36.300 not you know able to do the job the next day 00:59:36.300 --> 00:59:38.639 so that purpose identity has been challenged 00:59:38.639 --> 00:59:41.800 what are the next few weeks and months like for 00:59:41.800 --> 00:59:49.059 you mentally man i mean it was just getting back 00:59:49.059 --> 00:59:51.699 from an injury like that's like i never had any 00:59:51.699 --> 00:59:56.099 no one around me my wife no one ever thought 00:59:56.099 --> 00:59:58.840 that i was gonna not be a policeman anymore like 00:59:58.840 --> 01:00:01.460 this changed it was just literally now it's time 01:00:01.460 --> 01:00:03.969 to get back to work so like um i've been injured 01:00:03.969 --> 01:00:06.610 before through sports it's just getting your 01:00:06.610 --> 01:00:09.750 mindset and getting back to work and everything 01:00:09.750 --> 01:00:14.449 it works around that goal like you know i mean 01:00:14.449 --> 01:00:19.469 the pain was was you know was there and it was 01:00:19.469 --> 01:00:24.869 but i had my jaw wired shut which sucked like 01:00:24.869 --> 01:00:28.250 man like that that was more mental than anything 01:00:28.250 --> 01:00:31.030 like you know living on soup broth and just like 01:00:31.690 --> 01:00:34.250 you know, protein shakes and just losing a lot 01:00:34.250 --> 01:00:39.190 of weight, losing energy. I mean, that sucked 01:00:39.190 --> 01:00:44.989 bad. But once like my jaw, you know, the surgeries 01:00:44.989 --> 01:00:47.510 came and it was just now, all right, let's get 01:00:47.510 --> 01:00:51.510 back to work. How long was your rehab from injury 01:00:51.510 --> 01:00:55.829 to being fully fit for duty again? Six months. 01:00:56.590 --> 01:01:02.570 But I say that. because I'd go back to duty, 01:01:02.670 --> 01:01:04.590 then I'd have to get another surgery on something 01:01:04.590 --> 01:01:08.250 I had to get like, so I was out probably just 01:01:08.250 --> 01:01:11.530 under a year and a half over six years. But like 01:01:11.530 --> 01:01:13.150 different things would come up and I'd have to 01:01:13.150 --> 01:01:15.889 get a surgery and things like that. So I mean, 01:01:15.909 --> 01:01:18.710 it lasted a long time, but I got back to work, 01:01:18.909 --> 01:01:23.949 you know, six months. And I think it's because 01:01:23.949 --> 01:01:26.329 I was ready to get like I pushed to get back 01:01:26.329 --> 01:01:30.889 to work like I've had Dave Grossman on a few 01:01:30.889 --> 01:01:32.969 times now, and obviously he, you know, on Killing 01:01:32.969 --> 01:01:35.309 on Combat, he talks about all the things that 01:01:35.309 --> 01:01:38.750 happen in a shooting. When you reflect back, 01:01:38.989 --> 01:01:41.909 you know, what were these changes physiologically 01:01:41.909 --> 01:01:44.210 and psychologically that allowed you to keep 01:01:44.210 --> 01:01:47.130 fighting despite, you know, physical wounds and 01:01:47.130 --> 01:01:53.269 fear as well? I mean, man, I was never afraid. 01:01:55.110 --> 01:02:01.079 It was... I was playing the game. It had a high 01:02:01.079 --> 01:02:03.340 stakes game, but I wanted to win. Like all I 01:02:03.340 --> 01:02:06.900 could think about was winning. And like I was, 01:02:06.900 --> 01:02:10.719 you know, I always put that it kicked in. I was 01:02:10.719 --> 01:02:14.139 angry, but it wasn't a blind rage. It would be 01:02:14.139 --> 01:02:17.539 more of like if we were going to race and you 01:02:17.539 --> 01:02:19.559 got a head start and no one called you on it. 01:02:19.579 --> 01:02:20.940 You know what I mean? And I'm like, what? So 01:02:20.940 --> 01:02:23.860 then I had to run harder from behind. All I was 01:02:23.860 --> 01:02:27.400 doing is fighting from behind. I've done it before. 01:02:27.699 --> 01:02:30.719 Just because you start losing doesn't mean you're 01:02:30.719 --> 01:02:32.840 going to end losing. Just stay in it and do what 01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:36.659 you're doing and fight. And I don't know if I 01:02:36.659 --> 01:02:39.400 would have lost, I wouldn't have known it. I 01:02:39.400 --> 01:02:41.079 just would have went out. I would have gone out 01:02:41.079 --> 01:02:44.739 fighting. You mentioned taking the job seriously 01:02:44.739 --> 01:02:47.539 right from the get -go. After you finally get 01:02:47.539 --> 01:02:50.480 back to work, what, if anything, did you change 01:02:50.480 --> 01:02:52.239 as far as strength and conditioning, weapons 01:02:52.239 --> 01:02:57.079 training, what you were wearing, et cetera? Really 01:02:57.079 --> 01:03:00.239 nothing. The only thing that I would have changed 01:03:00.239 --> 01:03:05.920 from that incident was like when I grabbed him, 01:03:05.980 --> 01:03:07.840 I was going to dump him back and we were going 01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:09.940 to go to the ground together. Because at the 01:03:09.940 --> 01:03:13.300 time, you know, I played football. I was doing 01:03:13.300 --> 01:03:17.539 MMA, jujitsu, and I'm comfortable on the ground. 01:03:18.400 --> 01:03:21.929 That's probably not the best place to be. In 01:03:21.929 --> 01:03:24.030 law enforcement or anybody, when you're carrying 01:03:24.030 --> 01:03:26.329 a gun, like up close, like I probably should 01:03:26.329 --> 01:03:29.250 just ran up and pushed them. And then maybe the 01:03:29.250 --> 01:03:31.329 gun would have fallen out or I would at least 01:03:31.329 --> 01:03:33.110 had some distance if he would have went to the, 01:03:33.130 --> 01:03:36.349 you know what I mean? Like that, but literally 01:03:36.349 --> 01:03:39.489 we've, I got to put them in handcuffs. I got 01:03:39.489 --> 01:03:42.309 to go hands on. I've been in hundreds of foot 01:03:42.309 --> 01:03:46.469 pursuits. It's just, I was ambushed. You know 01:03:46.469 --> 01:03:47.949 what I mean? And the only way to get through 01:03:47.949 --> 01:03:50.409 an ambush is fight through it. And that's, that's 01:03:50.409 --> 01:03:53.880 what I did. I just interviewed Mitch Aguiar the 01:03:53.880 --> 01:03:56.800 other day, and he's got the Adopt -a -Cop BJJ 01:03:56.800 --> 01:04:00.019 program. Yeah. What is, I mean, obviously you're 01:04:00.019 --> 01:04:03.159 walking the walk when it comes to MMA. Talk to 01:04:03.159 --> 01:04:06.719 me about the importance of judo, wrestling, jiu 01:04:06.719 --> 01:04:09.880 -jitsu, or any other kind of combative art when 01:04:09.880 --> 01:04:14.400 it comes to law enforcement. I mean, it's a must 01:04:14.400 --> 01:04:16.920 because it's just all about body control. Even 01:04:16.920 --> 01:04:20.219 if someone's not fighting you. like just handcuffing 01:04:20.219 --> 01:04:23.420 somebody on the ground or like a high -risk handcuffing 01:04:23.420 --> 01:04:26.659 or just like risk control when escorting somebody, 01:04:26.920 --> 01:04:30.239 it matters. Do you know what I mean? And it protects 01:04:30.239 --> 01:04:34.280 that person that you're escorting too. Because 01:04:34.280 --> 01:04:36.380 if I can just escort you properly and you understand 01:04:36.380 --> 01:04:40.119 that, all right, this guy may know something. 01:04:40.280 --> 01:04:42.559 He has me controlled. I'm not going to do anything. 01:04:42.800 --> 01:04:45.760 That's better for you and me. Me just grabbing 01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:47.639 your hand and you taking a swing on me, that's 01:04:47.639 --> 01:04:50.440 bad for you. bad for me and bad for like your 01:04:50.440 --> 01:04:52.440 future like you know i mean you're now adding 01:04:52.440 --> 01:04:56.260 serious charges to it so i mean it's a must i 01:04:56.260 --> 01:05:03.579 mean just it's not the end -all be -all but you 01:05:03.579 --> 01:05:06.699 better have some good like body control and understanding 01:05:06.699 --> 01:05:10.320 how it works with people A common denominator 01:05:10.320 --> 01:05:12.440 from a lot of people that have been on here that 01:05:12.440 --> 01:05:14.940 have had both, you know, excellent strength and 01:05:14.940 --> 01:05:17.920 conditioning and, you know, martial arts is they 01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:22.260 seem to report far fewer shootings, far fewer 01:05:22.260 --> 01:05:25.699 hands -on events than seemingly some of the other 01:05:25.699 --> 01:05:29.159 people. And I think that projection of just knowing. 01:05:29.920 --> 01:05:32.659 you know what you know and having that physicality 01:05:32.659 --> 01:05:36.280 seems to be very disarming for the people that 01:05:36.280 --> 01:05:38.059 would be kind of in the middle you got the people 01:05:38.059 --> 01:05:39.480 they're going to comply regardless you're going 01:05:39.480 --> 01:05:41.239 to people who have they're going to fight regardless 01:05:41.239 --> 01:05:45.420 but that middle ground just having that in shape 01:05:45.420 --> 01:05:48.480 confident male or female police officer i would 01:05:48.480 --> 01:05:51.739 argue saves a lot of lives in uniform and outside 01:05:51.739 --> 01:05:54.400 just by projecting the fact that you don't want 01:05:54.400 --> 01:05:56.860 to with that person just go quiet you don't have 01:05:56.860 --> 01:05:59.000 to argue that that's human nature nobody wants 01:05:59.000 --> 01:06:01.159 to get their ass with you know what i mean like 01:06:01.159 --> 01:06:04.039 like even if they want to fight the police in 01:06:04.039 --> 01:06:07.780 their mind they have a chance of winning you 01:06:07.780 --> 01:06:12.440 know what i mean and they don't and a lot of 01:06:12.440 --> 01:06:14.739 people you know you do have those people who 01:06:14.739 --> 01:06:16.059 are going to comply and people who are going 01:06:16.059 --> 01:06:17.519 to fight no matter what you know what i mean 01:06:17.519 --> 01:06:19.239 that could be a mental health thing that could 01:06:19.239 --> 01:06:22.940 be whatever but people who have a decision they 01:06:22.940 --> 01:06:27.019 typically decide not to go that route yeah well 01:06:27.019 --> 01:06:29.019 i think that that just again supports the fitness 01:06:29.019 --> 01:06:31.760 standards it supports you know giving you know, 01:06:31.780 --> 01:06:34.119 grappling training to our law enforcement officers, 01:06:34.260 --> 01:06:36.880 because the more prepared you can make them, 01:06:36.920 --> 01:06:39.900 I think the more disarming it is for that middle 01:06:39.900 --> 01:06:44.119 group then. Well, I mean that, and your confidence 01:06:44.119 --> 01:06:46.860 on that, like, you know what I mean? You're not 01:06:46.860 --> 01:06:49.079 going to jump to putting hands on people or doing 01:06:49.079 --> 01:06:52.019 these things because you're confident in what 01:06:52.019 --> 01:06:53.619 you can do. You know what I mean? And being able 01:06:53.619 --> 01:06:57.579 to talk to people, I think you, and I don't like 01:06:57.579 --> 01:07:01.309 to use the word scared, but less. scared you 01:07:01.309 --> 01:07:04.570 are and you can you can talk things into people 01:07:04.570 --> 01:07:07.210 and just like let them understand what's how 01:07:07.210 --> 01:07:09.789 it's going to go you know they don't well they 01:07:09.789 --> 01:07:12.389 don't want to do that yeah what even as you mentioned 01:07:12.389 --> 01:07:14.389 with the law enforcement side too if you've got 01:07:14.389 --> 01:07:17.130 someone who's deconditioned their go -to might 01:07:17.130 --> 01:07:19.969 be lethal force straight away so you might think 01:07:19.969 --> 01:07:22.170 that lowering standards is better for the the 01:07:22.170 --> 01:07:25.260 department but how much is that going to cost 01:07:25.260 --> 01:07:27.420 you millions and millions of someone wrongfully 01:07:27.420 --> 01:07:29.480 shoot someone because they didn't have the ability 01:07:29.480 --> 01:07:31.739 to go hands -on because they weren't held to 01:07:31.739 --> 01:07:34.500 a standard at the front door. Oh, you're, you're, 01:07:34.500 --> 01:07:36.099 you're exactly right. And then they sit there 01:07:36.099 --> 01:07:37.760 and they go code black. You know what I mean? 01:07:37.980 --> 01:07:45.260 There's all kinds of crazy videos of just people 01:07:45.260 --> 01:07:48.960 not ready to do the job and they're probably 01:07:48.960 --> 01:07:52.280 still doing the job. You know what I mean? Yeah, 01:07:52.320 --> 01:07:55.820 same in our profession. And again, I'm very compassionate. 01:07:56.320 --> 01:08:00.539 Again, underlining, there are things in our environment 01:08:00.539 --> 01:08:03.559 that contribute to some of these issues. But 01:08:03.559 --> 01:08:08.239 if you are operational and you're on a fire engine 01:08:08.239 --> 01:08:10.559 or in a police car and you're just not able to 01:08:10.559 --> 01:08:13.500 do the job right now, then there needs to be 01:08:13.500 --> 01:08:15.619 an on -ramp process to get you back to where 01:08:15.619 --> 01:08:17.100 you need to be. And if you're willing to put 01:08:17.100 --> 01:08:19.659 the work in, there should be a year, year and 01:08:19.659 --> 01:08:23.060 a half to get you back. But I think we're going 01:08:23.060 --> 01:08:24.579 back to the unions that we're talking about. 01:08:24.739 --> 01:08:26.859 They defend the people that aren't prepared to 01:08:26.859 --> 01:08:29.180 put in the work, that don't have the heart to 01:08:29.180 --> 01:08:31.300 do it. And that's a completely different conversation. 01:08:31.500 --> 01:08:33.199 That person shouldn't be in uniform. It's your 01:08:33.199 --> 01:08:37.399 fault. Yeah, it's your fault. Why do they need 01:08:37.399 --> 01:08:41.319 a physical stamp? It's everything you try to 01:08:41.319 --> 01:08:45.520 put. And some people think it's great. And then 01:08:45.520 --> 01:08:48.029 some people, they'll... They fight their ass 01:08:48.029 --> 01:08:49.909 off because they just want to be lazy and they 01:08:49.909 --> 01:08:52.810 want to carry out their job, you know, and do 01:08:52.810 --> 01:08:54.409 whatever because they don't want to lose their 01:08:54.409 --> 01:08:58.750 job. And I get that. But it's not about them 01:08:58.750 --> 01:09:03.550 anymore. It's about us and the people, the community 01:09:03.550 --> 01:09:05.930 and everything. If you're unable to do your job, 01:09:06.029 --> 01:09:11.640 then go find a different job. Yeah. Well, this 01:09:11.640 --> 01:09:13.899 is what's interesting when you talk to, you know, 01:09:13.920 --> 01:09:16.060 the special operations community, when you talk 01:09:16.060 --> 01:09:18.539 to high level coaches that work with athletes 01:09:18.539 --> 01:09:21.619 or people that were athletes themselves, the 01:09:21.619 --> 01:09:24.220 amount of support that they get, strength and 01:09:24.220 --> 01:09:26.659 conditioning, nutrition, sports psychology, I 01:09:26.659 --> 01:09:28.680 mean, you know, physical therapy, all the things 01:09:28.680 --> 01:09:31.699 to perform at a high level, either in war or 01:09:31.699 --> 01:09:35.039 in sports. is incredible. And then you look at 01:09:35.039 --> 01:09:38.399 fire, police, EMS, even when we have some of 01:09:38.399 --> 01:09:40.859 those people come to our agencies, a lot of times 01:09:40.859 --> 01:09:42.640 it's just, well, we're going to try and get you 01:09:42.640 --> 01:09:44.680 to die a little bit less than you do at the moment, 01:09:44.720 --> 01:09:48.000 rather than forging performance. So I think that 01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:51.060 there's, you know, now that in this fire side 01:09:51.060 --> 01:09:52.800 that we're starting to see this shift in this 01:09:52.800 --> 01:09:54.859 work week, this is what I'm hoping will be the 01:09:54.859 --> 01:09:58.090 next step. is that we have not only fitness standards, 01:09:58.229 --> 01:10:00.510 but we have these professionals coming in and 01:10:00.510 --> 01:10:03.130 working with our men and women in uniform to 01:10:03.130 --> 01:10:05.729 work on their psychology. God forbid they get 01:10:05.729 --> 01:10:08.029 in a shooting. To be, you know, work towards 01:10:08.029 --> 01:10:10.069 a purple belt in jujitsu or whatever the thing 01:10:10.069 --> 01:10:12.630 is so that we can actually look at the performance 01:10:12.630 --> 01:10:15.329 side rather than just be constantly on the back 01:10:15.329 --> 01:10:17.949 foot talking about the cancers and the heart 01:10:17.949 --> 01:10:22.470 attacks and the suicides. I mean, I think that's 01:10:22.470 --> 01:10:25.020 great and it's all well intended. but it will 01:10:25.020 --> 01:10:29.319 not be well attended you will have a guy sitting 01:10:29.319 --> 01:10:33.100 in an empty gym because or the same 10 people 01:10:33.100 --> 01:10:36.039 will come non -stop because they love it because 01:10:36.039 --> 01:10:38.239 they're this is great i got my own personal trainer 01:10:38.239 --> 01:10:44.220 like i would eat that up but people aren't there 01:10:44.220 --> 01:10:46.140 because of the to me it's not because of the 01:10:46.140 --> 01:10:52.220 lack of availability of it they're there because 01:10:52.220 --> 01:10:55.079 the lack of debt of dedication to themselves 01:10:55.079 --> 01:10:59.100 and the discipline they don't do it like that's 01:10:59.100 --> 01:11:03.619 they are comfortable in their job they've done 01:11:03.619 --> 01:11:06.899 it long enough that they understand all right 01:11:06.899 --> 01:11:09.039 i've gotten out of shape and i'm still able to 01:11:09.039 --> 01:11:11.239 do my job they don't look at it like i can't 01:11:11.239 --> 01:11:14.180 do my job as well as i could have done it before 01:11:14.180 --> 01:11:19.119 and it's i mean i think it's all well and good 01:11:19.119 --> 01:11:20.640 but i think it's going to be a waste of money 01:11:21.479 --> 01:11:23.140 Because the people who are going to be there 01:11:23.140 --> 01:11:25.920 are going to work out anyway. They're going to 01:11:25.920 --> 01:11:29.380 go to jiu -jitsu anyway. You're helping them 01:11:29.380 --> 01:11:31.619 out great because you're giving them a free one. 01:11:33.000 --> 01:11:38.520 But that's, it's just until we change the culture 01:11:38.520 --> 01:11:43.619 and get back to it. And, you know, we used to 01:11:43.619 --> 01:11:46.720 have like shooting contests, like a top gun law 01:11:46.720 --> 01:11:50.050 enforcement, right? Now we do. golf tournaments 01:11:50.050 --> 01:11:56.329 and softball games we don't it's a we do different 01:11:56.329 --> 01:11:59.850 things then we need to bring it we're not going 01:11:59.850 --> 01:12:01.390 to be able to bring it back like i think it's 01:12:01.390 --> 01:12:04.810 just too far gone but there are going to be people 01:12:04.810 --> 01:12:07.350 there that can do the job and just let them work 01:12:07.350 --> 01:12:10.250 let them do it and don't ostracize them because 01:12:10.250 --> 01:12:13.270 they are going to be the minority well that's 01:12:13.270 --> 01:12:16.359 what i'm hoping is if we can turn this recruitment 01:12:16.359 --> 01:12:18.600 crisis around by fixing some of these things. 01:12:18.680 --> 01:12:20.819 And now you're taking the top percentage of, 01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:24.000 you know, whatever list that that group of meat 01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:26.359 eaters or alphas, or I hate that word alpha, 01:12:26.420 --> 01:12:28.220 but you know, the, the people that are fired 01:12:28.220 --> 01:12:30.979 up and driven by the job, um, you know, we'll 01:12:30.979 --> 01:12:33.800 start expanding and that will kind of push, push 01:12:33.800 --> 01:12:35.859 the walls wider and wider and wider. And then 01:12:35.859 --> 01:12:39.060 that performance side will be a much bigger conversation, 01:12:39.079 --> 01:12:43.220 but to underline your point. Tim Kennedy, I know 01:12:43.220 --> 01:12:45.319 he's had some stuff around him recently, but 01:12:45.319 --> 01:12:47.760 he did Sheepdog Response here in Ocala a few 01:12:47.760 --> 01:12:50.760 years ago, right after Parkland. And someone 01:12:50.760 --> 01:12:53.720 sponsored a bunch of spots. And they did a whole 01:12:53.720 --> 01:12:55.359 load for the law enforcement, because they have 01:12:55.359 --> 01:12:56.760 the two, they have civilian law enforcement, 01:12:56.840 --> 01:12:58.819 and then all us firefighters did the civilian 01:12:58.819 --> 01:13:02.680 one. Civilian one was fully sold out. And then 01:13:02.680 --> 01:13:04.859 the second day, I think we were all still there. 01:13:05.000 --> 01:13:07.479 The law enforcement, they didn't even fill all 01:13:07.479 --> 01:13:10.079 the spots. And then day two, they had a bunch 01:13:10.079 --> 01:13:12.829 of no -shows. And Tim was telling me about this. 01:13:12.890 --> 01:13:15.010 And this is the problem is, again, well -intended, 01:13:15.010 --> 01:13:18.449 completely free two -day seminar teaching on 01:13:18.449 --> 01:13:20.710 the law enforcement side, literally what you 01:13:20.710 --> 01:13:23.470 do as a job, you know, weapons and hands -on 01:13:23.470 --> 01:13:27.449 tactics, combatives. And in Marion and Ocala 01:13:27.449 --> 01:13:30.109 combined, they couldn't even fill a room with 01:13:30.109 --> 01:13:31.689 police officers and get them to come back the 01:13:31.689 --> 01:13:34.609 next day. And kudos to the ones that were there. 01:13:34.670 --> 01:13:36.569 Obviously, they were the ones that got it. But 01:13:36.569 --> 01:13:39.310 it does illustrate. the issue that you're talking 01:13:39.310 --> 01:13:41.949 about, which is if you're just going through 01:13:41.949 --> 01:13:45.170 the motions and you're scared of being exposed, 01:13:45.510 --> 01:13:46.890 because that's the whole point of training. You 01:13:46.890 --> 01:13:48.989 deliberately get exposed so you can figure out 01:13:48.989 --> 01:13:52.270 what needs to be worked on. But if you're scared 01:13:52.270 --> 01:13:54.369 of even looking in the mirror as a firefighter 01:13:54.369 --> 01:13:57.010 or a police officer, that's terrifying in itself. 01:13:59.409 --> 01:14:02.810 If you make it optional, they're going to opt 01:14:02.810 --> 01:14:05.229 out. I mean, the culture is going to have to 01:14:05.229 --> 01:14:08.779 be you go or you lose your job. Even if they 01:14:08.779 --> 01:14:10.500 go and they don't put out and they don't want 01:14:10.500 --> 01:14:12.939 to be there and they bitch, it's still better 01:14:12.939 --> 01:14:14.640 than sitting on the couch and bitching. You know 01:14:14.640 --> 01:14:18.239 what I mean? But it needs to be a mandatory thing 01:14:18.239 --> 01:14:23.239 and what you do. You can't make it and that's 01:14:23.239 --> 01:14:25.380 where unions are going to lose their mind or 01:14:25.380 --> 01:14:28.420 do whatever. All right, I'm giving everybody 01:14:28.420 --> 01:14:32.220 on this shift one hour of PT. And if you're at 01:14:32.220 --> 01:14:34.220 work, you'll be at PT. You know what I mean? 01:14:37.899 --> 01:14:40.760 Oh, I got a court date. I got this. I mean, the 01:14:40.760 --> 01:14:43.880 excuses are going to come out. The guys that 01:14:43.880 --> 01:14:45.460 are there every day are going to stay there every 01:14:45.460 --> 01:14:47.979 day. The guys that we're talking about, they're 01:14:47.979 --> 01:14:49.920 going to make excuses and they're going to do 01:14:49.920 --> 01:14:52.560 something. But that's up for management. And 01:14:52.560 --> 01:14:54.960 I don't think law enforcement is really a good 01:14:54.960 --> 01:14:58.220 manager. You know, just because you're a good 01:14:58.220 --> 01:15:00.000 policeman and you took a test doesn't make you 01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:03.199 a good sergeant or a good manager or a good leader, 01:15:03.300 --> 01:15:06.560 you know, and pushing dudes to do these things. 01:15:07.199 --> 01:15:11.619 And that's where I never had that culture because 01:15:11.619 --> 01:15:13.840 our culture on our SWAT team, I did 17 years 01:15:13.840 --> 01:15:16.739 on SWAT. I never really left the team. And our 01:15:16.739 --> 01:15:19.819 culture was we PT together. We work, you know 01:15:19.819 --> 01:15:22.520 what I mean? We do everything together and we 01:15:22.520 --> 01:15:25.720 hold each other. So we dropped kind of our PT 01:15:25.720 --> 01:15:28.819 standards for once you make the team for just 01:15:28.819 --> 01:15:31.100 to keep guys long, because we were losing guys 01:15:31.100 --> 01:15:32.720 after like three or four years because they're 01:15:32.720 --> 01:15:36.220 just really beat out. But we had a PT standard. 01:15:37.019 --> 01:15:38.760 And it was up to, and then people were, well, 01:15:38.760 --> 01:15:39.920 the people were going to do this. I was like, 01:15:39.979 --> 01:15:43.020 bro, they don't make it to where we're at and 01:15:43.020 --> 01:15:45.640 then give up on PT. You know, that makes like, 01:15:45.720 --> 01:15:48.619 you're going to PT. Like I told myself, I can't 01:15:48.619 --> 01:15:51.159 wait till I retire. Cause I'm going to, I'm just 01:15:51.159 --> 01:15:53.199 become a fat ass and not work out and bubble. 01:15:53.319 --> 01:15:55.399 Yeah. That doesn't happen. It's, it's in my, 01:15:55.439 --> 01:15:58.420 it's where I'm at now. Like, I feel like shit 01:15:58.420 --> 01:16:00.300 if I don't work out in a day, you know what I 01:16:00.300 --> 01:16:07.609 mean? It's. You got to make it mandatory. And 01:16:07.609 --> 01:16:11.029 then maybe once you make it mandatory and you 01:16:11.029 --> 01:16:14.449 stick it out for several years, then even new 01:16:14.449 --> 01:16:16.869 people who come on understand that this is the 01:16:16.869 --> 01:16:19.350 standard. When I come on, it's the, you're going 01:16:19.350 --> 01:16:21.090 to get rid of the people who've been there before 01:16:21.090 --> 01:16:24.090 the standard because they're going to bitch. 01:16:24.210 --> 01:16:26.649 You know what I mean? So you got to give it three 01:16:26.649 --> 01:16:30.229 years to phase those people out or, you know, 01:16:30.229 --> 01:16:32.789 get on the train or get off the train, but this 01:16:32.789 --> 01:16:35.439 train's moving. Yeah. Well, I think, again, when 01:16:35.439 --> 01:16:37.439 you have a high standard in the academy and then 01:16:37.439 --> 01:16:39.279 you set a high standard in the orientation of 01:16:39.279 --> 01:16:40.859 your department and then you maintain it with 01:16:40.859 --> 01:16:43.619 annual fitness standards and realism in training, 01:16:43.800 --> 01:16:47.640 it's easy to stay in shape. It's when you stop 01:16:47.640 --> 01:16:50.539 and you have no standards and people come deconditioned, 01:16:50.539 --> 01:16:53.500 they've genuinely got, you know, 50, 100, 150 01:16:53.500 --> 01:16:57.180 pounds to lose. That is daunting. So the solution 01:16:57.180 --> 01:17:00.060 is to... not lower the standard and maintain 01:17:00.060 --> 01:17:02.500 that. And I think this is what we're seeing now 01:17:02.500 --> 01:17:05.060 is a lot of unions. I'm a huge believer in the 01:17:05.060 --> 01:17:07.079 union philosophy. I've paid my dues my whole 01:17:07.079 --> 01:17:10.199 career. But when I look back, I mean, just at 01:17:10.199 --> 01:17:13.760 the work week on itself, like the place, the 01:17:13.760 --> 01:17:16.920 city that our union is out of at the moment is 01:17:16.920 --> 01:17:20.439 Boston. 42 -hour firefighter work week. Zero 01:17:20.439 --> 01:17:22.399 conversation about, well, hey, maybe the rest 01:17:22.399 --> 01:17:24.159 of the country should work this beautiful work 01:17:24.159 --> 01:17:27.090 week that we have. Nothing. So if fundamentally 01:17:27.090 --> 01:17:29.789 even the work we won't put your neck out for, 01:17:29.909 --> 01:17:32.890 then, you know, what are we paying you for? And 01:17:32.890 --> 01:17:34.770 so it's not about getting rid of unions. It's 01:17:34.770 --> 01:17:37.409 just like questioning who we've got in those 01:17:37.409 --> 01:17:40.010 positions. And are they doing what's right for 01:17:40.010 --> 01:17:42.189 our people? And that means our own people in 01:17:42.189 --> 01:17:44.289 uniform, their own health, their own longevity, 01:17:44.670 --> 01:17:47.409 their relationships, and then our ability to 01:17:47.409 --> 01:17:50.529 protect the public. And if there's a disconnection 01:17:50.529 --> 01:17:54.779 between. making our men and women perform at 01:17:54.779 --> 01:17:56.779 the highest level and make them have the greatest 01:17:56.779 --> 01:18:00.140 longevity and what they're actually doing, then 01:18:00.140 --> 01:18:01.979 you have to revisit, is this the right person 01:18:01.979 --> 01:18:03.479 with the right policies? Because if they don't 01:18:03.479 --> 01:18:05.800 have the guts to even enforce a fitness standard 01:18:05.800 --> 01:18:09.720 in a job where lives are at stake, then why the 01:18:09.720 --> 01:18:12.960 fuck are you even here? Right. And do you think 01:18:12.960 --> 01:18:17.720 that, like, look at the chiefs and all this stuff 01:18:17.720 --> 01:18:20.180 that are high up, do you think they want a physical 01:18:20.180 --> 01:18:22.550 standard? but they should you know what i mean 01:18:22.550 --> 01:18:25.510 it doesn't matter they should 100 well that's 01:18:25.510 --> 01:18:28.789 not my job it doesn't matter like you got you 01:18:28.789 --> 01:18:33.369 know it's the standard is the standard and they 01:18:33.369 --> 01:18:35.390 need to uphold it but you're not going to get 01:18:35.390 --> 01:18:38.630 it man you i mean it's just not going to happen 01:18:38.630 --> 01:18:42.689 because to the majority of people are lazy i 01:18:42.689 --> 01:18:46.350 mean you have great intentions and that's going 01:18:46.350 --> 01:18:50.189 to happen but i mean It's beating your head against 01:18:50.189 --> 01:18:53.210 a brick wall. If you think like, you know, you 01:18:53.210 --> 01:18:56.670 know, lazy is going to be lazy. I mean, you can 01:18:56.670 --> 01:19:00.029 see it change in some small departments. Like 01:19:00.029 --> 01:19:02.109 you can see some small departments or small units 01:19:02.109 --> 01:19:04.689 and you're like, man, these guys, these are the 01:19:04.689 --> 01:19:11.510 example. And you get a large thing where they 01:19:11.510 --> 01:19:13.729 have, where they've had a bad culture. They're 01:19:13.729 --> 01:19:15.010 not going to put in there because you're going 01:19:15.010 --> 01:19:19.630 to have too many bad apples to even. make that 01:19:19.630 --> 01:19:25.029 orchard worthwhile all right well you you come 01:19:25.029 --> 01:19:27.329 back from you know this near -death incident 01:19:27.329 --> 01:19:30.810 you you know you rehab mentally you rehab physically 01:19:30.810 --> 01:19:34.310 before you transition now you're in the obviously 01:19:34.310 --> 01:19:37.289 we're still in SWAT should I say were there any 01:19:37.289 --> 01:19:39.529 other officer involved shootings that you were 01:19:39.529 --> 01:19:42.529 a part of and then how again did that factor 01:19:42.529 --> 01:19:45.430 in compared to you know the almost dying in one 01:19:45.430 --> 01:19:49.989 prior to that yeah so i got involved in where 01:19:49.989 --> 01:19:53.130 i was a shooter i was involved in two more uh 01:19:53.130 --> 01:19:57.890 shootings um but i mean we got shot at a bunch 01:19:57.890 --> 01:20:00.029 and a lot of like i've probably been involved 01:20:00.029 --> 01:20:03.090 in 15 shootings where people are like shooting 01:20:03.090 --> 01:20:06.029 out windows at us and doing like maybe not directly 01:20:06.029 --> 01:20:08.250 at me or i'm not shooting but like a lot of high 01:20:08.250 --> 01:20:12.229 stress shooting things where i'm writing reports 01:20:12.229 --> 01:20:15.329 on the shooting but not you know i wasn't being 01:20:15.329 --> 01:20:21.140 a shooter and you know yeah i mean i've been 01:20:21.140 --> 01:20:23.979 involved in a bunch of different ones and each 01:20:23.979 --> 01:20:26.000 one affected me a little bit differently like 01:20:26.000 --> 01:20:32.439 so the one we had a guy he killed his brother 01:20:32.439 --> 01:20:34.939 his brother's friend tried to kill his mom and 01:20:34.939 --> 01:20:38.539 dad they are only alive due to modern medicine 01:20:38.539 --> 01:20:42.199 you know um shot them all with a with a 12 gauge 01:20:42.199 --> 01:20:45.979 kind of disappeared into the woods um robbed 01:20:45.979 --> 01:20:48.439 the store did some things we had them in we did 01:20:48.439 --> 01:20:51.039 like a there's a four -day manhunt in these woods 01:20:51.039 --> 01:20:55.939 for them a woodland search uh we kind of gave 01:20:55.939 --> 01:20:59.439 up the woodland search but we kept like a like 01:20:59.439 --> 01:21:03.859 a qrf of SWAT guys in that area like around the 01:21:03.859 --> 01:21:06.760 clock and we would respond to you know if neighbors 01:21:06.760 --> 01:21:08.640 called they heard something or did something 01:21:08.640 --> 01:21:14.180 and uh we responded to a farm and We ended up 01:21:14.180 --> 01:21:16.739 finding the guy inside of a boat that was on 01:21:16.739 --> 01:21:19.619 land. It was on a trailer, but back with canine 01:21:19.619 --> 01:21:22.060 kind of tracked to this thing. And we ended up 01:21:22.060 --> 01:21:24.539 shooting him and killing him in the boat. And, 01:21:24.600 --> 01:21:30.460 man, that was a big relief for me. Like, to me, 01:21:30.659 --> 01:21:35.399 everyone in law enforcement or everyone who carries 01:21:35.399 --> 01:21:37.939 a gun or probably even in the firefighter world. 01:21:38.869 --> 01:21:40.970 Like everybody has that dream, like you can't 01:21:40.970 --> 01:21:43.289 pull the trigger or the trigger so hard it won't 01:21:43.289 --> 01:21:45.210 go or the guns not like, you know what I mean? 01:21:45.229 --> 01:21:47.989 Like, I don't know how it is in the final, like 01:21:47.989 --> 01:21:49.829 that water's not coming out. I don't know what 01:21:49.829 --> 01:21:53.489 it is, but like, it's that fear of not being 01:21:53.489 --> 01:21:56.829 able to answer the bell, you know? And I answered 01:21:56.829 --> 01:22:00.430 the bell prior to this, but then after being 01:22:00.430 --> 01:22:03.630 shot after, like, I, I felt like I was okay and 01:22:03.630 --> 01:22:06.210 I didn't really have any problems, but you never 01:22:06.210 --> 01:22:09.460 know until you answer the bell again. So answering 01:22:09.460 --> 01:22:11.460 the bell on that shooting, like, I mean, I was, 01:22:11.460 --> 01:22:15.779 I was relieved and happy and I was talking to, 01:22:15.899 --> 01:22:20.600 he ended up being our undersheriff, but he was, 01:22:20.680 --> 01:22:23.239 I think just our team leader or tactical guy 01:22:23.239 --> 01:22:27.680 at the time or our Lieutenant. And he's, you 01:22:27.680 --> 01:22:29.359 know, just checking on me, Jared, how you doing? 01:22:29.460 --> 01:22:32.899 And I was like, man, I needed that. And he's 01:22:32.899 --> 01:22:35.000 like, Jared, you never need shootings. You know 01:22:35.000 --> 01:22:38.829 what I mean? And. I explained it to him. I was 01:22:38.829 --> 01:22:42.909 like, I needed, I go through the door all the 01:22:42.909 --> 01:22:45.369 time with these guys and they have to be able 01:22:45.369 --> 01:22:48.149 to count on me just like I count on them. And 01:22:48.149 --> 01:22:53.109 now taking away that, that question, whether 01:22:53.109 --> 01:22:55.470 or not I can respond or is the gunfire going 01:22:55.470 --> 01:22:59.710 to make me, I don't like go into relapse or something 01:22:59.710 --> 01:23:02.489 crazy. You know what I mean? But it was, it was 01:23:02.489 --> 01:23:04.789 good. And I needed it because I needed to know 01:23:04.789 --> 01:23:07.119 that I could do the job. and be good for the 01:23:07.119 --> 01:23:11.140 fellas you know i mean and the community well 01:23:11.140 --> 01:23:12.880 i think that goes back to being a rookie doesn't 01:23:12.880 --> 01:23:15.300 it when you first start yeah i mean are you gonna 01:23:15.300 --> 01:23:18.500 exact same thing it restarted my shooting clock 01:23:18.500 --> 01:23:20.439 kind of like i was like i need this to kind of 01:23:20.439 --> 01:23:25.109 make sure that i i'm not gonna freeze So what 01:23:25.109 --> 01:23:28.090 made you finally pull the trigger and transitioning 01:23:28.090 --> 01:23:30.670 out? And then how was your transition? Because 01:23:30.670 --> 01:23:33.710 for, as we know, many people in uniform, especially 01:23:33.710 --> 01:23:36.529 if your identity has been wrapped up solely in 01:23:36.529 --> 01:23:39.630 law enforcement, it can be jarring for some of 01:23:39.630 --> 01:23:42.289 our people when they retire. So what kind of 01:23:42.289 --> 01:23:44.189 made you make that decision? And then what was 01:23:44.189 --> 01:23:49.609 your initial few months like? So I retired because 01:23:49.609 --> 01:23:53.229 Safari Land offered me a job. I mean, like literally 01:23:53.229 --> 01:23:55.390 retired on the Thursday and went to work on Monday. 01:23:58.250 --> 01:24:00.829 And it was just starting. And it was not that 01:24:00.829 --> 01:24:05.289 I was even ready. Like I had a hard time accepting 01:24:05.289 --> 01:24:07.050 that. It took me a couple of weeks to accept 01:24:07.050 --> 01:24:11.970 the job because I love, I still love my job. 01:24:12.069 --> 01:24:13.770 Like I think it was one of the best jobs in the 01:24:13.770 --> 01:24:18.289 world. I was able to do it. I wasn't like out 01:24:18.289 --> 01:24:22.449 of shape, but. what about in a few years when 01:24:22.449 --> 01:24:25.949 I'm not able to do the job and now I'm stuck 01:24:25.949 --> 01:24:28.050 on patrol and now I hate this or, you know what 01:24:28.050 --> 01:24:31.130 I mean? Like, so, and I talked to a friend of 01:24:31.130 --> 01:24:34.510 mine who went to, you know, played high school 01:24:34.510 --> 01:24:36.449 football together. We went to the Academy together 01:24:36.449 --> 01:24:39.390 and like, you know, he, he, his path went along 01:24:39.390 --> 01:24:41.930 promotion and mine stayed right there on SWAT. 01:24:42.130 --> 01:24:44.130 And he was an assistant chief and I'm talking 01:24:44.130 --> 01:24:46.810 to him and he's like, he's like, Jared, what, 01:24:46.890 --> 01:24:48.329 you know, how many doors have you kicked in? 01:24:48.430 --> 01:24:50.680 You know what I mean? I was like thousands. And 01:24:50.680 --> 01:24:52.380 he's like, when are you going to be tired of 01:24:52.380 --> 01:24:54.960 that? And I was like, probably never. You know 01:24:54.960 --> 01:24:57.079 what I mean? And he's like, so what's the difference 01:24:57.079 --> 01:25:00.920 in doing it now and five years from now? Like, 01:25:00.920 --> 01:25:04.279 it's going to be hard anytime you do it, but 01:25:04.279 --> 01:25:07.840 you have a great opportunity to change your family's 01:25:07.840 --> 01:25:09.340 life. Like, you know what I mean? It doubled 01:25:09.340 --> 01:25:13.560 my salary. You know what I mean? And I looked 01:25:13.560 --> 01:25:15.619 at it like that and just like, hey, man, I got 01:25:15.619 --> 01:25:17.800 to go. You know what I mean? I got to go do this 01:25:17.800 --> 01:25:20.380 for my family and do this. And I'm still in law 01:25:20.380 --> 01:25:23.840 enforcement. You know, like I still get to hang 01:25:23.840 --> 01:25:26.300 out with the fellows and, you know, show them 01:25:26.300 --> 01:25:29.340 cool products and do stuff. So, I mean, I've 01:25:29.340 --> 01:25:31.300 had a great transition. I mean, I love it. I 01:25:31.300 --> 01:25:34.520 try to tell people that, hey, man, you're not 01:25:34.520 --> 01:25:37.020 stuck there. There is life outside of this and 01:25:37.020 --> 01:25:38.859 there are people who want to hire you and you'll 01:25:38.859 --> 01:25:44.420 do a great job. The stress that is lifted from 01:25:44.420 --> 01:25:49.590 our shoulders. in a even when you have a great 01:25:49.590 --> 01:25:52.250 job i had a great job but there's always drama 01:25:52.250 --> 01:25:54.109 involved in something like you know what i mean 01:25:54.109 --> 01:25:57.989 and like now like out in the the civilian world 01:25:57.989 --> 01:26:02.449 man i don't have it's just a it's relief it's 01:26:02.449 --> 01:26:05.430 it's the big boy rules you think of and you do 01:26:05.430 --> 01:26:07.909 and like you're able to work you're not micromanaged 01:26:07.909 --> 01:26:11.350 you're there because of you know they expect 01:26:11.350 --> 01:26:13.989 you to do a job and just do your job And you'll 01:26:13.989 --> 01:26:16.210 do it. I've been promoted at Safari land and 01:26:16.210 --> 01:26:20.289 just, I'm trying to crush every day. You know 01:26:20.289 --> 01:26:22.890 what I mean? And not look back on it as, as being 01:26:22.890 --> 01:26:26.510 bad. Cause there is life after retirement. See, 01:26:26.590 --> 01:26:28.550 I agree with you completely. I never rose above 01:26:28.550 --> 01:26:30.489 firefighter because that's what I dreamed of 01:26:30.489 --> 01:26:32.710 doing when I was in the academy, not writing, 01:26:32.710 --> 01:26:35.390 you know, staffing reports or, you know, standing 01:26:35.390 --> 01:26:37.350 outside the engine with a microphone in my hand. 01:26:37.909 --> 01:26:41.750 And, uh, But my career, my life took me to a 01:26:41.750 --> 01:26:43.750 point where after the podcast was started, I 01:26:43.750 --> 01:26:45.670 realized that, well, hey, I could be a force 01:26:45.670 --> 01:26:47.569 multiplier for this profession. I could speak 01:26:47.569 --> 01:26:49.930 for the people that can't speak because they're 01:26:49.930 --> 01:26:52.449 still in. And so it took me out earlier than 01:26:52.449 --> 01:26:56.550 I ever thought I would. But to your point, what 01:26:56.550 --> 01:26:58.689 I've realized, especially as it's such a powerful 01:26:58.689 --> 01:27:00.390 lens when you're standing on the outside looking 01:27:00.390 --> 01:27:03.609 in again, is how many of our men and women are 01:27:03.609 --> 01:27:06.760 crippled by the thought that. The only thing 01:27:06.760 --> 01:27:08.479 they know is police. The only thing they know 01:27:08.479 --> 01:27:11.859 is fire. And yes, some people go into security 01:27:11.859 --> 01:27:13.960 from law enforcement. Some firefighters go and 01:27:13.960 --> 01:27:16.939 teach at academies. But you work under high stress. 01:27:16.979 --> 01:27:19.279 You work well with teams. You're a problem solver. 01:27:19.319 --> 01:27:21.079 There's all these assets that can be applied 01:27:21.079 --> 01:27:24.979 to so many areas. And, you know, the benefits 01:27:24.979 --> 01:27:27.220 that used to be the carrot on the stick these 01:27:27.220 --> 01:27:29.720 days are awful anyway. I mean, the health insurance 01:27:29.720 --> 01:27:32.899 in most places is just dog shit. So realizing 01:27:32.899 --> 01:27:35.399 that you can also, as you said, make a good living 01:27:35.399 --> 01:27:38.220 and be home in your own bed with your family, 01:27:38.300 --> 01:27:40.319 watch your kids grow up before it's too late. 01:27:40.500 --> 01:27:43.380 So if people are still in the profession and 01:27:43.380 --> 01:27:46.539 they've got X amount of years to go, fantastic. 01:27:46.880 --> 01:27:48.319 And if it's their choice and they understand 01:27:48.319 --> 01:27:50.859 everything that's available to them. But I think 01:27:50.859 --> 01:27:53.840 there's a lot of people, good people even. That 01:27:53.840 --> 01:27:57.640 stay way too long because of pensions, drop programs, 01:27:57.840 --> 01:28:01.000 whatever it is, without realizing that you can, 01:28:01.000 --> 01:28:04.260 you know, hang your your coat up at 5, 10, 15 01:28:04.260 --> 01:28:07.600 years, be proud of your service and then transition 01:28:07.600 --> 01:28:09.699 to something else is also going to make the world 01:28:09.699 --> 01:28:12.359 a little bit better. Yeah, I mean, even with 01:28:12.359 --> 01:28:17.100 like pensions and everything. I mean, we have 01:28:17.100 --> 01:28:19.520 a drop program and it's great. And I think the 01:28:19.520 --> 01:28:21.739 drop's great. If you don't ever plan on working 01:28:21.739 --> 01:28:24.180 again, like maybe you did something prior to 01:28:24.180 --> 01:28:27.579 law enforcement or fire. And like, when you are 01:28:27.579 --> 01:28:29.399 done with this, you're kind of done working. 01:28:29.819 --> 01:28:32.779 It's great. But man, as soon as you're able to, 01:28:32.840 --> 01:28:34.659 I think you need to get out because you're going 01:28:34.659 --> 01:28:37.199 to make that drop money, but they just, they 01:28:37.199 --> 01:28:39.420 show a number to you and you're like, oh man, 01:28:39.479 --> 01:28:41.659 I can't give that up. I was like, you're going 01:28:41.659 --> 01:28:44.140 to make way more than that. If you go get a job. 01:28:44.649 --> 01:28:46.369 You know what I mean? And don't think of it as 01:28:46.369 --> 01:28:50.130 a retirement gig. Go get a career and go do your 01:28:50.130 --> 01:28:53.229 second career and try as hard as you can at that. 01:28:53.289 --> 01:28:56.470 And you're going to do great. Like it's, it's 01:28:56.470 --> 01:28:59.170 hard to trust in yourself and believe in yourself 01:28:59.170 --> 01:29:02.989 and bet on yourself. So it's easy to get people 01:29:02.989 --> 01:29:07.850 stuck in that. They're there. Won't get out. 01:29:08.869 --> 01:29:11.909 Like my best friend, man, he just got out last 01:29:11.909 --> 01:29:14.729 week and I've been telling them for. ever just 01:29:14.729 --> 01:29:18.270 man you got like just your personality everybody 01:29:18.270 --> 01:29:20.810 loves you bro you know what i mean like you can 01:29:20.810 --> 01:29:23.850 get out and do great and because there's so many 01:29:23.850 --> 01:29:26.789 people who who people hate they're just idiots 01:29:26.789 --> 01:29:29.149 you know what i mean and they're like you're 01:29:29.149 --> 01:29:33.590 you know you you are an asset if you just bet 01:29:33.590 --> 01:29:36.329 on yourself and go put yourself to something 01:29:36.329 --> 01:29:39.350 and apply yourself and work hard you're gonna 01:29:39.350 --> 01:29:44.119 it's gonna do well Well, I think two really under, 01:29:44.159 --> 01:29:48.119 well, misunderstood or under understood, if that's 01:29:48.119 --> 01:29:50.460 even a word, I don't think it is, areas that 01:29:50.460 --> 01:29:55.180 are so detrimental to us is sleep deprivation 01:29:55.180 --> 01:29:57.979 and all things physical and mental health and 01:29:57.979 --> 01:30:01.659 then organizational stress or betrayal. How absolutely 01:30:01.659 --> 01:30:04.380 crushing that can be. And what I found, the last 01:30:04.380 --> 01:30:06.920 place I worked at was, you know, rife with that. 01:30:07.800 --> 01:30:10.760 The moment I left, it was like a thousand pounds 01:30:10.760 --> 01:30:13.119 came off my shoulders. And it wasn't I didn't 01:30:13.119 --> 01:30:14.640 want to be a firefighter or a medic anymore. 01:30:14.699 --> 01:30:19.439 It was I didn't have to bow down to people that 01:30:19.439 --> 01:30:21.979 really were not qualified to do their job that 01:30:21.979 --> 01:30:24.640 were higher up this invisible ladder that we 01:30:24.640 --> 01:30:29.199 kind of are subservient to. And then you realize, 01:30:29.300 --> 01:30:31.479 oh, I can just go and get shit done now. I can 01:30:31.479 --> 01:30:34.220 go and fix things now without it taking six months 01:30:34.220 --> 01:30:37.380 and massaging 12 egos to get. fucking fitness 01:30:37.380 --> 01:30:41.140 program put in for example so yeah it's it is 01:30:41.140 --> 01:30:45.239 it is it's a huge relief i mean i i don't everybody 01:30:45.239 --> 01:30:48.500 i've talked to who's done it like and i'm still 01:30:48.500 --> 01:30:50.840 like and they're just like man this was this 01:30:50.840 --> 01:30:53.300 was great like i needed this like i don't i don't 01:30:53.300 --> 01:30:56.220 want to i didn't want to retire and then have 01:30:56.220 --> 01:30:58.359 to go to the courthouse and put a uniform on 01:30:58.359 --> 01:31:01.539 and do something that i wasn't doing before like 01:31:01.539 --> 01:31:07.930 go and find like but I'm not saying bad against 01:31:07.930 --> 01:31:11.430 those people, but they've never really bet on 01:31:11.430 --> 01:31:13.329 themselves. They've never really done anything 01:31:13.329 --> 01:31:16.930 and put themselves out there. Their physicality 01:31:16.930 --> 01:31:19.229 and shit is probably different, too. You know 01:31:19.229 --> 01:31:20.970 what I mean? They're disciplined. They're willing 01:31:20.970 --> 01:31:23.949 to take risks. Like, that's a big freaking deal. 01:31:24.090 --> 01:31:27.170 Like, you know, you start looking at some of 01:31:27.170 --> 01:31:29.649 these people who are super successful. They didn't 01:31:29.649 --> 01:31:33.369 get there by not taking risks and not being disciplined 01:31:33.369 --> 01:31:36.149 to sit in there. And when it's not going as great 01:31:36.149 --> 01:31:39.550 as you want to stay in and keep going and keep 01:31:39.550 --> 01:31:43.430 pushing forward when it hurts. I think that's 01:31:43.430 --> 01:31:48.050 that's the secret to success. And I feel like, 01:31:48.050 --> 01:31:50.770 you know, my law enforcement career was a great 01:31:50.770 --> 01:31:52.489 law enforcement career, but I'm going to be more 01:31:52.489 --> 01:31:56.109 successful as a businessman and being able to 01:31:56.109 --> 01:31:58.590 support my family and doing what I'm doing now. 01:31:59.789 --> 01:32:02.649 Well, expanding on that, talk to me about the 01:32:02.649 --> 01:32:05.170 training that you offer and the spectrum of it. 01:32:06.369 --> 01:32:09.829 So Reston Group's been around for 15 years now. 01:32:09.989 --> 01:32:15.010 We teach firearms and tactics to law enforcement, 01:32:15.090 --> 01:32:17.449 military and civilians, you know, armed civilians. 01:32:17.729 --> 01:32:21.010 And that's really great. But I've taken that 01:32:21.010 --> 01:32:24.170 and built. So then I've teamed up with Ridgeline 01:32:24.170 --> 01:32:27.770 Defense before and we've met. We've been friends 01:32:27.770 --> 01:32:30.210 for years. I had the opportunity to buy into 01:32:30.210 --> 01:32:31.989 the company, so I bought into the company. We're 01:32:31.989 --> 01:32:34.750 now manufacturing rifles. We have two training 01:32:34.750 --> 01:32:37.750 facilities. We have all these things that are 01:32:37.750 --> 01:32:42.250 happening, and it's great. It's just, you know, 01:32:42.250 --> 01:32:44.970 take what you have, don't be happy with what 01:32:44.970 --> 01:32:47.289 you got, and keep building. You know what I mean? 01:32:47.310 --> 01:32:49.890 Take every opportunity you have to keep building. 01:32:50.529 --> 01:32:54.409 And, you know, me and my wife bought a chocolate 01:32:54.409 --> 01:32:57.039 store. Like we have a Peterbrook chocolatier 01:32:57.039 --> 01:32:58.800 store, like, you know, that was one of her dreams 01:32:58.800 --> 01:33:01.399 and we made it happen. And we're like, you know, 01:33:01.399 --> 01:33:03.920 it's hard. It sucks. The chocolate business is 01:33:03.920 --> 01:33:09.060 not that great. But we work and we are going 01:33:09.060 --> 01:33:10.739 to keep pushing and it's going to it's going 01:33:10.739 --> 01:33:13.699 to take off if we just keep helping or keep pushing, 01:33:13.760 --> 01:33:17.260 keep doing what we're doing. And that's where 01:33:17.260 --> 01:33:19.159 you've got to show your family and stuff, not 01:33:19.159 --> 01:33:21.920 just being a law enforcement officer or, you 01:33:21.920 --> 01:33:25.989 know. a slave to that paycheck but just get in 01:33:25.989 --> 01:33:28.210 there and use those opportunities like i never 01:33:28.210 --> 01:33:31.090 graduated from college my college was 20 years 01:33:31.090 --> 01:33:32.750 of law enforcement that's how i'm able to even 01:33:32.750 --> 01:33:35.770 get the jobs and the experiences and opportunities 01:33:35.770 --> 01:33:38.609 that i have and i'm going to take full advantage 01:33:38.609 --> 01:33:42.550 of that but it doesn't define who i am i'm not 01:33:42.550 --> 01:33:45.350 a policeman only a policeman you know what i 01:33:45.350 --> 01:33:47.949 mean it's what i did and i did some really really 01:33:47.949 --> 01:33:51.250 cool things and i i love it and i loved it but 01:33:52.260 --> 01:33:56.960 You know, there's things else to do. I want to 01:33:56.960 --> 01:33:58.920 throw some closing questions at you quickly, 01:33:58.979 --> 01:34:02.960 but this can have, you know, no response whatsoever 01:34:02.960 --> 01:34:05.520 or, you know, go wherever you'd like to. But 01:34:05.520 --> 01:34:08.260 yesterday, obviously, we saw, sadly, because 01:34:08.260 --> 01:34:11.340 social media is in our face these days, the brutal 01:34:11.340 --> 01:34:14.420 slaying of Charlie. Was it Kirk? Have I got that 01:34:14.420 --> 01:34:19.100 right? As a paramedic, what I saw was an immediate 01:34:19.100 --> 01:34:21.220 bleed that there's no way in hell someone's going 01:34:21.220 --> 01:34:23.460 to survive from. So the fact that they said that 01:34:23.460 --> 01:34:26.000 he was at the hospital, I figured that was probably 01:34:26.000 --> 01:34:29.159 what we call a show code by that point. But I'm 01:34:29.159 --> 01:34:31.600 obviously not a tactical person. But I did see 01:34:31.600 --> 01:34:35.239 person in custody and then manhunt and then 200 01:34:35.239 --> 01:34:38.279 -yard shot. So from your perspective, looking 01:34:38.279 --> 01:34:40.829 at this video, you know. Are there any myths 01:34:40.829 --> 01:34:43.369 that are apparent to you so far? Or what are 01:34:43.369 --> 01:34:45.470 some of the takeaways with such a kind of veteran 01:34:45.470 --> 01:34:47.449 lens that you have when it comes to this kind 01:34:47.449 --> 01:34:52.949 of environment? The takeaways are when doing 01:34:52.949 --> 01:34:58.590 large venues and things like that, it seems in 01:34:58.590 --> 01:35:01.909 the past year that assassination is kind of on 01:35:01.909 --> 01:35:07.560 the uptick and people are trying to do it. and 01:35:07.560 --> 01:35:09.939 as a security side of that we need to understand 01:35:09.939 --> 01:35:13.779 it and it's not just day -to -day pep rallies 01:35:13.779 --> 01:35:18.500 and or whatever it is you know like if you have 01:35:18.500 --> 01:35:20.079 a certain amount of people there you need to 01:35:20.079 --> 01:35:23.199 have a certain amount of security there owning 01:35:23.199 --> 01:35:27.720 the high ground is we're gonna have to take these 01:35:27.720 --> 01:35:31.100 things seriously not and i don't know you know 01:35:31.100 --> 01:35:35.119 how i know he had a small detail and he had the 01:35:35.119 --> 01:35:40.470 college police But he, I mean, I'm not, he's 01:35:40.470 --> 01:35:44.369 going to have to pay for a more security. If 01:35:44.369 --> 01:35:47.369 you're out there doing these things, you need 01:35:47.369 --> 01:35:51.170 to take your own personal security high up there. 01:35:51.510 --> 01:35:55.529 And that's different teams and occupying buildings 01:35:55.529 --> 01:36:00.750 and doing, you know, a better, you know, upfront 01:36:00.750 --> 01:36:04.529 evaluation. And there's guys out there that do 01:36:04.529 --> 01:36:06.449 this stuff like all the time. You know what I 01:36:06.449 --> 01:36:10.039 mean? and they need to you know rather than putting 01:36:10.039 --> 01:36:16.060 your life into the hands of a college police 01:36:16.060 --> 01:36:20.239 force yeah yeah and it's gonna change i mean 01:36:20.239 --> 01:36:23.479 it's good i mean it's got to change you know 01:36:23.479 --> 01:36:25.819 full security packages are gonna have to start 01:36:25.819 --> 01:36:29.020 going with these people yeah i mean it's so sad 01:36:29.020 --> 01:36:31.640 but then if you contrast it to evergreen i mean 01:36:31.640 --> 01:36:33.859 this is a school that's supposed to be safe that 01:36:33.859 --> 01:36:37.619 someone walked into with a weapon so i mean This 01:36:37.619 --> 01:36:39.819 sadly is the environment that we have in this 01:36:39.819 --> 01:36:41.859 country at the moment, as we've kind of unpacked 01:36:41.859 --> 01:36:46.140 the last couple of hours, is when you keep doing 01:36:46.140 --> 01:36:48.420 the same thing, expecting different results, 01:36:48.720 --> 01:36:52.899 this is what we get. We get these violent incidents 01:36:52.899 --> 01:36:55.760 over and over and over again. And whether it's, 01:36:55.760 --> 01:36:57.760 again, the combination of the mental health crisis 01:36:57.760 --> 01:36:59.520 and all these other factors that come into it, 01:36:59.619 --> 01:37:02.479 it shouldn't be a regular occurrence that... 01:37:02.800 --> 01:37:05.260 politicians are killed or heads of you know healthcare 01:37:05.260 --> 01:37:07.880 systems or schools full of children you know 01:37:07.880 --> 01:37:09.500 if there are countries around the world that 01:37:09.500 --> 01:37:12.600 don't deal with this on a daily weekly basis 01:37:12.600 --> 01:37:16.539 and i and i feel like a lot of it is is definitely 01:37:16.539 --> 01:37:18.859 mental illness and just self -aware i think of 01:37:18.859 --> 01:37:22.340 the family structure like of understanding like 01:37:22.340 --> 01:37:30.489 i used to hate like i had to go a couple would 01:37:30.489 --> 01:37:32.329 call the police and say i need you to go take 01:37:32.329 --> 01:37:36.970 my dad's guns and i'm like you need to take your 01:37:36.970 --> 01:37:40.689 dad's guns if you think he's unsafe you i'm a 01:37:40.689 --> 01:37:42.850 policeman i can't go you know what i mean like 01:37:42.850 --> 01:37:45.989 take care of your family to do this well that's 01:37:45.989 --> 01:37:47.649 going to break his heart or what i don't care 01:37:47.649 --> 01:37:51.310 it's hard like i remember like talking with my 01:37:51.310 --> 01:37:54.909 mom about taking my stepdad's driver's license 01:37:54.909 --> 01:37:56.949 when he couldn't like he was he was a detriment 01:37:58.050 --> 01:37:59.630 And she's like, well, I can't. I was like, you 01:37:59.630 --> 01:38:01.789 have to do that. You man up, you put your big 01:38:01.789 --> 01:38:04.350 girl panties on and you take his driver's license. 01:38:04.789 --> 01:38:06.729 And that was one of the better things that we 01:38:06.729 --> 01:38:09.409 could do. You have to, that as a family, we come 01:38:09.409 --> 01:38:11.869 together and make the hard decisions and do things. 01:38:12.090 --> 01:38:15.789 And when you see a mentally ill person doing 01:38:15.789 --> 01:38:20.029 mentally ill stuff, call them out on it. Like, 01:38:20.090 --> 01:38:24.350 you know, with some of these recent killings. 01:38:25.869 --> 01:38:28.210 of like at the christian school like magazines 01:38:28.210 --> 01:38:30.810 painted with all kind of racist crazy stuff on 01:38:30.810 --> 01:38:33.649 it and painting on the guns and that is crazy 01:38:33.649 --> 01:38:37.229 talk understand it is but nobody wants to call 01:38:37.229 --> 01:38:39.890 a spade a spade anymore and they want to look 01:38:39.890 --> 01:38:42.069 the other way because it's easier on them they 01:38:42.069 --> 01:38:45.409 need to come up get them mental health problem 01:38:45.409 --> 01:38:48.510 like you know get it and then we really need 01:38:48.510 --> 01:38:50.430 to watch what these people say on like social 01:38:50.430 --> 01:38:54.609 media and what their rhetoric is because It's 01:38:54.609 --> 01:38:56.970 easy to convince a crazy person to do something. 01:38:57.050 --> 01:39:01.470 If I give them a cause and they think that they're 01:39:01.470 --> 01:39:05.710 going to be the great savior, they'll do crazy 01:39:05.710 --> 01:39:08.909 stuff. You know what I mean? So watch our rhetoric 01:39:08.909 --> 01:39:10.770 and watch. If you don't mean for it to happen, 01:39:10.810 --> 01:39:12.829 you need to watch what you say because crazy 01:39:12.829 --> 01:39:16.010 people will take that as a calling. I couldn't 01:39:16.010 --> 01:39:19.470 agree more. And it's bizarre. I have my Instagram 01:39:19.470 --> 01:39:22.319 shut down. about eight months ago now. And all 01:39:22.319 --> 01:39:25.039 I usually post are clips from interviews like 01:39:25.039 --> 01:39:27.819 this. And then usually, you know, kindness and 01:39:27.819 --> 01:39:29.939 compassion, you know, whether it's our communities, 01:39:30.079 --> 01:39:33.979 whether it's other people and it got shut down. 01:39:34.079 --> 01:39:36.520 Now I've had, you know, doctors that were in 01:39:36.520 --> 01:39:38.640 Gaza that came back and talked about what they 01:39:38.640 --> 01:39:41.380 saw. I've got a funny feeling that might be the 01:39:41.380 --> 01:39:43.500 reason, you know, they claim copyright, but that's 01:39:43.500 --> 01:39:46.920 absolute bullshit. But then so much of this nastiness 01:39:46.920 --> 01:39:50.060 and hate. is encouraged on social media because 01:39:50.060 --> 01:39:52.579 that gets clicks so i think yeah this algorithm 01:39:52.579 --> 01:39:55.960 that really whether it's deliberate or just based 01:39:55.960 --> 01:39:59.260 purely on popularity that allows this hate and 01:39:59.260 --> 01:40:02.119 this divisiveness to perpetuate they absolutely 01:40:02.119 --> 01:40:04.060 are part of the reason for this they have blood 01:40:04.060 --> 01:40:09.000 in their hands too yeah what i mean it's we're 01:40:09.000 --> 01:40:11.460 all americans and if we were not at a rally or 01:40:11.460 --> 01:40:13.460 not looking at social media we were at a bar 01:40:13.460 --> 01:40:16.680 hanging out we would all get along 100 it's not 01:40:16.680 --> 01:40:19.359 as bad as people try to say it is and it's not 01:40:19.359 --> 01:40:23.060 and like i it like with racism in our country 01:40:23.060 --> 01:40:25.840 and stuff i was like look there are still racist 01:40:25.840 --> 01:40:30.640 dudes yeah if you pull up to a 75 year old man 01:40:30.640 --> 01:40:34.819 a white guy in the south and yeah he's probably 01:40:34.819 --> 01:40:37.460 racist you're never going to change him but you 01:40:37.460 --> 01:40:39.319 know what his son and daughter is probably not 01:40:39.319 --> 01:40:41.979 like it's got to fade away like you got to let 01:40:41.979 --> 01:40:45.380 these people die And the racist, like racism 01:40:45.380 --> 01:40:49.119 is going to die with that culture. Like, I don't 01:40:49.119 --> 01:40:51.300 know. I've always, I've always played sports. 01:40:52.260 --> 01:40:54.460 No, it doesn't matter who you are. I'll call 01:40:54.460 --> 01:40:56.300 you my brother. We go to battle to get like, 01:40:56.420 --> 01:40:59.300 you know, on a team on whatever we do. We're 01:40:59.300 --> 01:41:04.460 not, you don't see racism in special operations. 01:41:04.699 --> 01:41:09.859 You don't see racism in, in football, basketball, 01:41:10.060 --> 01:41:12.579 whatever. You see a team, any kind of really 01:41:12.579 --> 01:41:16.119 teams. like and then it blows my mind like you 01:41:16.119 --> 01:41:18.899 know like nfl like end racism and all that i 01:41:18.899 --> 01:41:21.840 was like y 'all have ended racism y 'all need 01:41:21.840 --> 01:41:23.960 to sit there and be like model yourself after 01:41:23.960 --> 01:41:26.319 us because we call each other brothers and we 01:41:26.319 --> 01:41:29.079 make fun of each other and do things and we make 01:41:29.079 --> 01:41:32.279 fun of the cultures that we come from but you 01:41:32.279 --> 01:41:34.640 know we stand by each other and we love each 01:41:34.640 --> 01:41:36.720 other like i got several people that i'd call 01:41:36.720 --> 01:41:40.409 my brother you know i mean that that's the type 01:41:40.409 --> 01:41:42.609 of shit that people take these little tiny things. 01:41:42.710 --> 01:41:44.550 Like that's what I think is wrong with the internet. 01:41:44.770 --> 01:41:47.050 I mean, what's good about the internet. It gives 01:41:47.050 --> 01:41:49.069 everybody a voice. What's wrong with the internet. 01:41:49.149 --> 01:41:52.689 It gives everybody a voice and they just, they 01:41:52.689 --> 01:41:57.149 don't need it. And man, and they just, they take 01:41:57.149 --> 01:42:00.050 those little minority things that just don't 01:42:00.050 --> 01:42:02.909 even affect anything. It's a blip, but they're 01:42:02.909 --> 01:42:05.210 going to make it something. And it's, it's wrong. 01:42:06.479 --> 01:42:09.560 I had a guy on the show recently, Alan Shabarro, 01:42:09.680 --> 01:42:12.300 who's a Green Beret. And we were talking and 01:42:12.300 --> 01:42:14.619 he was saying about racism in America. And I 01:42:14.619 --> 01:42:17.880 said, well, the way I look at it is, let's say 01:42:17.880 --> 01:42:23.020 10 % on each side are the extreme. In a country 01:42:23.020 --> 01:42:26.619 with 340 million people, that's 34 million lunatics 01:42:26.619 --> 01:42:29.880 on each side that believe that Fox or CNN is 01:42:29.880 --> 01:42:33.729 the gospel. And then you have the 80 % in the 01:42:33.729 --> 01:42:35.670 middle. It might lean a little bit, but I call 01:42:35.670 --> 01:42:38.489 them arguably normal people that can be pulled 01:42:38.489 --> 01:42:41.069 and swayed. And then you have the steadfast ones 01:42:41.069 --> 01:42:45.069 right in the middle. But yes, you have all these 01:42:45.069 --> 01:42:48.029 voices that talk about racism or whatever the 01:42:48.029 --> 01:42:53.090 thing is. But if you think about the 260 plus 01:42:53.090 --> 01:42:56.810 million people in the middle, that's the voice 01:42:56.810 --> 01:42:58.430 that we need to hear, but they don't get the 01:42:58.430 --> 01:43:01.520 microphone. They listen to the fucking wing nuts 01:43:01.520 --> 01:43:04.100 on either side rather than the majority in the 01:43:04.100 --> 01:43:07.380 middle. So I would say it's 5 % on either side. 01:43:07.420 --> 01:43:09.100 And most likely, yeah, I would agree with you. 01:43:09.119 --> 01:43:12.779 When you're given 10%, like that's a lot. You 01:43:12.779 --> 01:43:16.500 know what I mean? Yeah. Like I, the majority 01:43:16.500 --> 01:43:19.020 aren't getting the voice and we're acting and 01:43:19.020 --> 01:43:21.600 we put so much attention towards these others 01:43:21.600 --> 01:43:25.439 on both sides. It's just, it's wild to me. Like, 01:43:25.439 --> 01:43:29.649 cause most people don't care. Just leave them 01:43:29.649 --> 01:43:33.609 alone. And you know what I mean? And just go 01:43:33.609 --> 01:43:36.050 about and just be good human beings. Exactly. 01:43:36.210 --> 01:43:38.829 I always say tongue in cheek. If only there was 01:43:38.829 --> 01:43:40.670 a holy book that was written about being a good 01:43:40.670 --> 01:43:44.989 person. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. All right. Well, 01:43:45.170 --> 01:43:47.409 the first of the closing questions, is there 01:43:47.409 --> 01:43:49.970 a book or are there books that you love to recommend? 01:43:50.170 --> 01:43:52.369 It can be related to our discussion today or 01:43:52.369 --> 01:44:09.140 completely unrelated. I don't think any book 01:44:09.140 --> 01:44:12.520 that you need to read, like, I've read, like, 01:44:12.560 --> 01:44:14.779 the On Killing and, like, you know, the Grossman 01:44:14.779 --> 01:44:18.779 books. They're super hard to read. But, you know, 01:44:18.779 --> 01:44:21.819 they're great for doing things. But, I mean, 01:44:21.840 --> 01:44:26.159 I don't think you need it. I'm trying to think 01:44:26.159 --> 01:44:32.060 of the basketball coach wrote a book, and it 01:44:32.060 --> 01:44:37.119 has to do with, like, training and purpose. like 01:44:37.119 --> 01:44:40.680 purposeful training which i think is really good 01:44:40.680 --> 01:44:44.600 but i mean that's more sports stuff i don't think 01:44:44.600 --> 01:44:48.220 there's one but just just read and look at the 01:44:48.220 --> 01:44:51.079 things out there and find things that maybe aren't 01:44:51.079 --> 01:44:56.979 in your specific job title but you know and just 01:44:56.979 --> 01:44:58.899 read some there's a lot of great information 01:44:58.899 --> 01:45:01.020 out there and you can relate it to your stuff 01:45:01.020 --> 01:45:12.550 what about films and documentaries I mean, nothing 01:45:12.550 --> 01:45:14.350 life -changing. You know what I mean? I don't 01:45:14.350 --> 01:45:16.329 know. I watch movies. I watch documentaries. 01:45:16.569 --> 01:45:19.970 But I don't think if you don't watch it, you're 01:45:19.970 --> 01:45:23.510 different. I would say 80s movies because these 01:45:23.510 --> 01:45:26.090 kids today haven't seen really cool movies like 01:45:26.090 --> 01:45:31.329 the original Red Dawn and cool action movies 01:45:31.329 --> 01:45:34.350 like Robocop and Predator and things like that. 01:45:34.430 --> 01:45:38.560 But that's just cool, fun movies. Absolutely. 01:45:38.779 --> 01:45:40.340 All right. Well, the next question, is there 01:45:40.340 --> 01:45:42.659 a person that you recommend to come on this podcast 01:45:42.659 --> 01:45:45.340 as a guest to speak to the first responders, 01:45:45.500 --> 01:45:47.659 military and associated professions of the world? 01:45:48.920 --> 01:45:55.079 Alex Hartman. Tell me about him. So Alex is the 01:45:55.079 --> 01:45:57.800 CEO of Ridgeline Defense, and he is a Marine 01:45:57.800 --> 01:46:04.760 sniper that really is just taking the bull by 01:46:04.760 --> 01:46:09.750 the horns. It's just a really smart guy and has 01:46:09.750 --> 01:46:14.210 taken his military career and pushed it way past 01:46:14.210 --> 01:46:17.010 anything ever would have expected out of him. 01:46:18.689 --> 01:46:22.489 When he's designing weapons, this is always intriguing. 01:46:22.710 --> 01:46:26.210 Obviously, the nuts and bolts of a lot of these 01:46:26.210 --> 01:46:29.510 weapon systems have already been innovated years 01:46:29.510 --> 01:46:32.130 and years prior. What are some of the areas that 01:46:32.130 --> 01:46:35.430 Ridgeline is changing to try and create this 01:46:35.430 --> 01:46:39.090 next generation? So the great thing that we saw 01:46:39.090 --> 01:46:46.210 with us is through our experiences and training 01:46:46.210 --> 01:46:49.010 people, you can see the overarching problems 01:46:49.010 --> 01:46:53.710 that most AR -15s have, right? So we just set 01:46:53.710 --> 01:46:56.649 out and tried to fix these problems. And with 01:46:56.649 --> 01:46:59.829 that, we didn't really come out with anything 01:46:59.829 --> 01:47:02.590 great. We took everything great that we'd like 01:47:02.590 --> 01:47:05.670 on a broad span of weapons and put them all into 01:47:05.670 --> 01:47:09.539 one package. And it's just like right now with 01:47:09.539 --> 01:47:14.180 our LPRs, we have the most accurate AR -15 light 01:47:14.180 --> 01:47:17.439 precision rifle on the market hands down. Like 01:47:17.439 --> 01:47:20.859 it's crushing the competition world. Law enforcement 01:47:20.859 --> 01:47:25.119 agencies are using them all over now for, you 01:47:25.119 --> 01:47:28.960 know, for Overwatch and things like that because 01:47:28.960 --> 01:47:32.479 it is a great weapon system. We've now pushed 01:47:32.479 --> 01:47:35.920 that over into... like the blaster side of things 01:47:35.920 --> 01:47:38.100 like the chrome line barrels and and doing that 01:47:38.100 --> 01:47:40.720 by taking different rails and our rails and doing 01:47:40.720 --> 01:47:44.560 different things and man we make a quality working 01:47:44.560 --> 01:47:47.220 man's firearm everybody who works at ridgeline 01:47:47.220 --> 01:47:53.119 we've all carried a gun through a door with bad 01:47:53.119 --> 01:47:55.140 people with guns on the other side of that door 01:47:55.140 --> 01:48:00.020 like so we're guys making guns for guys and we 01:48:00.020 --> 01:48:03.350 know how much how important it is Everybody who 01:48:03.350 --> 01:48:05.250 works there knows how important it is that that 01:48:05.250 --> 01:48:07.470 screws tight to the right type because it might 01:48:07.470 --> 01:48:11.689 matter. Do you have a version of the MP5, that 01:48:11.689 --> 01:48:16.810 kind of weapon? No. Okay. Not yet. We just started 01:48:16.810 --> 01:48:19.090 with the precision rifle and the AR -15. Then 01:48:19.090 --> 01:48:22.090 we'll move to the bigger bore guns. Okay, because 01:48:22.090 --> 01:48:24.270 that's one thing I've been listening to people 01:48:24.270 --> 01:48:26.289 from all walks of life talking about home defense. 01:48:26.369 --> 01:48:28.369 One of the ones that made sense to me that'll 01:48:28.369 --> 01:48:30.930 be the next one I buy probably was some sort 01:48:30.930 --> 01:48:33.829 of 9mm, you know, pseudo rifle. I don't even 01:48:33.829 --> 01:48:35.970 know what the correct term would be. But hearing, 01:48:36.170 --> 01:48:38.010 you know, people saying, well, if you've got 01:48:38.010 --> 01:48:41.439 two... too powerful of a weapon in a home defense 01:48:41.439 --> 01:48:43.659 situation that you could yes you might kill the 01:48:43.659 --> 01:48:45.779 bad guy and then three neighbors down the street 01:48:45.779 --> 01:48:48.899 as well so uh that seemed like that's why you 01:48:48.899 --> 01:48:50.979 don't want a sub gun then because your nine millimeter 01:48:50.979 --> 01:48:52.939 bullet's going to go through way more walls than 01:48:52.939 --> 01:48:55.260 a 556 will well educate me then because this 01:48:55.260 --> 01:48:59.020 is i'm a noob as they say yeah just because it's 01:48:59.020 --> 01:49:02.140 fast doesn't mean fast and small means it breaks 01:49:02.140 --> 01:49:05.720 up early so it doesn't over penetrate so it does 01:49:06.119 --> 01:49:08.840 work on a body, but I would not recommend it. 01:49:08.880 --> 01:49:10.739 I recommend five, five, six for home defense 01:49:10.739 --> 01:49:13.180 for that reason. And that's why several SWAT 01:49:13.180 --> 01:49:16.460 teams carry five, five, six guns because they're 01:49:16.460 --> 01:49:19.720 not over penetrating. Brilliant. That would be 01:49:19.720 --> 01:49:22.899 the frangible round for that. No, you can use 01:49:22.899 --> 01:49:25.319 anything. You can use 62 grain bonded any, any 01:49:25.319 --> 01:49:28.159 it's because it's going so fast. It breaks up 01:49:28.159 --> 01:49:31.420 quicker. So like, if you wanted like a home defense, 01:49:31.539 --> 01:49:35.850 like i use we use sub guns and like nine millimeters 01:49:35.850 --> 01:49:38.550 on like car glass and things like that because 01:49:38.550 --> 01:49:41.390 it will punch through the glass better it does 01:49:41.390 --> 01:49:46.010 punch through barricades better so i mean i would 01:49:46.010 --> 01:49:49.470 go five five six for home defense okay good to 01:49:49.470 --> 01:49:53.170 know thank you all right well then the last question 01:49:53.170 --> 01:49:54.850 before we make sure everyone knows where to find 01:49:54.850 --> 01:49:56.510 you and all the companies we've discussed today 01:49:56.510 --> 01:50:05.859 what do you do to decompress I don't, I don't, 01:50:05.859 --> 01:50:08.500 I don't have any hobbies. I don't do, I shoot 01:50:08.500 --> 01:50:11.060 guns and, you know what I mean? I, I, I do my 01:50:11.060 --> 01:50:13.800 work stuff. I don't do anything because that's 01:50:13.800 --> 01:50:16.039 fun to me. Like, I don't know, like that's, that's 01:50:16.039 --> 01:50:19.020 decompressing for me. I like to go watch my son 01:50:19.020 --> 01:50:22.199 play football. Like that's my, you know, or all 01:50:22.199 --> 01:50:24.020 my boys go play. You know what I mean? That was, 01:50:24.039 --> 01:50:32.439 but I mean, bro, I don't. I go hard. I try to 01:50:32.439 --> 01:50:35.699 stay hard until I can't. All right. For people 01:50:35.699 --> 01:50:39.819 listening, where can they find Ridgeland, the 01:50:39.819 --> 01:50:42.380 Reston Training Group, and some of the other 01:50:42.380 --> 01:50:47.260 places you've mentioned today? So, restongrouptraining 01:50:47.260 --> 01:50:50.020 .com is online or on any of the social medias. 01:50:50.779 --> 01:50:54.180 Ridgelinedefense .com is online or any of the 01:50:54.180 --> 01:50:57.520 Ridgelinedefense social medias of Gas Gun, Fast 01:50:57.520 --> 01:51:00.949 Gun. on instagram is one of ours for the lpr 01:51:00.949 --> 01:51:06.090 and then for safariland safariland .com and that 01:51:06.090 --> 01:51:10.069 we manufacture everything that you need for law 01:51:10.069 --> 01:51:13.449 enforcement and military so and what about except 01:51:13.449 --> 01:51:16.430 for guns what about social media for yourself 01:51:16.430 --> 01:51:20.229 specifically uh wrestling group just under wrestling 01:51:20.229 --> 01:51:23.930 group uh for on instagram it's resting underscore 01:51:23.930 --> 01:51:27.399 group and you gotta type that in exactly Because 01:51:27.399 --> 01:51:31.659 I'm shadow banned. Yeah, my old one doesn't work 01:51:31.659 --> 01:51:35.420 either. So I'm 2 .0 now. All right. Well, Jared, 01:51:35.420 --> 01:51:37.500 I want to thank you so much. It's been such an 01:51:37.500 --> 01:51:39.899 amazing conversation. Obviously, you know, your 01:51:39.899 --> 01:51:43.560 line of duty, injury, wounding, you know, it 01:51:43.560 --> 01:51:45.539 was a very powerful chapter of your life. But 01:51:45.539 --> 01:51:47.420 getting your perspective on so many things that 01:51:47.420 --> 01:51:49.880 we've discussed today has been invaluable. So 01:51:49.880 --> 01:51:52.140 I want to thank you so much for being so generous 01:51:52.140 --> 01:51:54.319 with your time and coming on the Behind the Shield 01:51:54.319 --> 01:51:56.979 podcast today. Thank you for having me, guys.