Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As
always, my name is James Geering, and this week
it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show
20 -year law enforcement veteran and the man
behind Reston Group Critical Solutions, Jared
Reston. Now, in this conversation, we discuss
a host of topics from his journey into the world
of law enforcement, the importance of fitness
in the first responder professions, the impact
of officer -involved shootings, mental health,
the Charlie Kirk murder, weapon design, and so
much more. Now, before we get to this incredible
conversation, as I say every week, please just
take a moment. Go to whichever app you listen
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and leave a rating. Every single five -star rating
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all I ask in return is that you help share these
incredible men and women's stories so I can get
them to every single person on planet Earth who
needs to hear them. So that being said, I introduce
to you, Jared. Reston. Enjoy. Well, Jared, I
want to start by saying. This is a long time
coming. I just mentioned that before we hit record.
Your name has come up many times as far as guest
recommendations. I don't know why these paths
never intersected, but we are finally here. So
I want to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield
podcast today. All right. Well, thank you. Thanks
for having me. So where on planet Earth are we
finding you this afternoon? I'm in Florida, Jacksonville,
Florida. Beautiful. Not too far from here. I'm
in Ocala, so down the road. All right. Well,
I would love to start at the very beginning of
your timeline. So tell me where you were born
and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic,
what your parents did, how many siblings. All
right. So I was born in Houston, Texas, only
lived there for a very short time. Moved around
a bunch when I was a kid. My dad is a chemical
engineer and worked for Dow. So we moved a bunch
then. Then my parents split up when I was in
the fifth grade. So then I ended up in Orange
Park, Florida, which is a suburb of Jacksonville.
And that's kind of where I grew up and maintained,
you know, stayed my roots here in Jacksonville.
Beautiful. Chemical engineer, talk to me about
that as far as having to move the family around.
What was it that was pulling your dad to all
these different places? I mean, that's just how
the job was. He worked kind of in the oil business
and had to go different places. And we moved
around probably 18 to 24 months when we were
kids. My older brothers got more moving than
I did. I was probably more stable than anything,
but that's just how it was. Well, you hear that
from the military families a lot. And I always
ask, you know, anyone who was raised in that
kind of environment, what when you reflect, even
though, as you said, it was a shorter period,
what were the pros of moving? And then what were
the cons, if any? I mean, the pros of moving
was, I mean, I got to, I was from a bunch of
places, I remember a bunch of places, I remember
a bunch of people and just different cultures.
And, and like, it wasn't just like moving down
the road, I moved lived in Jacksonville twice,
Houston, Mobile, Alabama, Houma, Louisiana, and
Westerville, Ohio. So, I mean, it was, you know,
it was good. And what about cons, if any? I mean,
I would say for my brothers, they don't have
the long history of friendships that I have with
the kids that I grew up with. Like, you know,
once I stayed in Orange Park. So they don't have
that kind of almost brother's bond with other
kids because they were moving so much. That's
kind of the double -edged sword, I think. When
you do stay in a place, I moved a lot when I
was younger. Not when I was young, young, but
when I kind of got into adulthood. You know,
you obviously get to travel a lot. So as you
said, you get to see all these different cultures.
You get to see the same kinds of people all over
the country. And you realize that, you know,
there are those characters everywhere. But when
you do lay down your roots, there's also that
sense of community. So you need, I think, to
travel so that you kind of shed some of the stereotypes
and maybe the myopic views on life that some
people have that never travel. But at the same
time, if you're traveling constantly, you never
really get to feel what it's like to have that
cohesive community too. Right. So what about
sports and exercise? What were you playing back
then? For me, I played football. It's Florida,
so you play football or nothing. That's just
kind of how it was. I played football into college,
and that was my sport. When I was younger, it
was skateboarding. So I went from skateboarding
to playing football. What made you stop skating?
I got a little too big for it. I kept breaking
my decks every week doing stuff because I was
just a little too heavy, I guess. Now, what about
first responders, military? Did you have any
in your family or extended family? Not when I
was younger. My oldest brother got into law enforcement
when he was 20. So I was 11. So, I mean, he kind
of paved the way for law enforcement for us.
And is that what you were thinking about when
you first graduated or was there something else
prior to that? I mean, I think I was probably
going to be in law enforcement no matter, like
I used to ride ever since I was 16, I've got
to do ride alongs with them and do things. And
it was just fun. I think like kind of my calling
in the law enforcement is I didn't want to grow
up. And just having that bond with your friends,
that locker room feel of, you know, just doing
things and having a brotherhood and doing that,
that kind of drew me to that same kind of law
enforcement career path. Now, what did that path
look like for you? I knew some agencies will
hire you as a civilian and then put you through
other ones like I had to do. You get your fire
and then you go test for a job. Right. So that's
how it was. To go to the academy back then, you
had to pay for your own academy. It was ran through
a college or state college. Once you got to the
academy, then you had to take your state test.
And once you passed your state test, then you
could get hired by an agency. Like it made you
eligible to be hired. So I did all that, applied
to a few places. The Jacksonville Sheriff's Office
was always somewhere that I wanted to be because
it was the premier agency of North Florida. And
so I got hired on as a bailiff and I hung out
there for about a year until they moved me to
the streets. And what year was it you got hired?
2001, April, 2001. As we sit here now and there's
a huge recruitment crisis in police fire and
EMS, I always like to contrast that with how
competitive it was when we were testing. Cause
I got hired in 04, so not too far after you.
How competitive was it back then to be a police
officer in Florida? Oh, it was super competitive.
I mean, it was, um, and I hate to say it, but
like, even like being a white male, Made it a
little bit harder, you know, at those times.
But, I mean, you just kind of, I mean, it was
competitive. You better had your stuff right.
And sometimes, like, I probably wasn't the best
at when I was younger. So, you know what I mean?
I got into a little bit of trouble. So, like,
I had to wait a little bit longer in the courthouse.
I had to do my time. They had to, you know, is
he? Is he responsible enough to do this? You
know, and it's just the nature of the beast.
I think it's an important conversation because
as we sit here now, and I think one of the things
that's turning the fire service around, ironically,
Orange Park, I think are really trying to make
this happen there too. is uh looking at the firefighter
work week for example and they've been working
our firefighters into the ground 56 hours a week
in a mandatory overtime now you're talking 80
hours a week and then you know surprise face
people don't want to do this job when they look
at it on paper and then you know they say oh
we can't even hire enough people now i'm like
this is how far you've fallen that we used to
have hundreds if not thousands of people testing
for a handful of positions so we used to be there
Until 10, 15 years ago, and we can get back there.
But you've got to finally, you know, have the
backbone to say, look, as a profession, we've
made some mistakes along the way, and we've got
to fix them to entice young people to want to
do this job again. Oh, for sure. And it's just
the culture of service has not been really looked
at really. as an honor or heroes, now you're
getting bashed all the time. And like, who wants
to put up with it when no one's got your back
kind of deal? Yeah. Well, even from the community
point of view, circling around to what we were
talking about a few minutes ago, when I think
as an immigrant about America, it's the American
dream, you know, it's, it's community. It's,
it's having a place of your own. It's raising
your kids. And yet when you look at the message
now, it's like, no, you know, fuck everyone else.
You need to have all the money. It's a very different
message than I got as a young boy in England,
for example. So I think even environmentally,
we've allowed that messaging to shift to a very,
very selfish, nasty narrative rather than it
takes a village. And that includes taking care
of our first responders and military members,
as well as our teachers and everyone else. Yes.
There's not a lot of service. There's a lot of
me involved now. Absolutely. Well, you mentioned
as well about not being an angel. I've told the
story a few times on here. When I first did a
test in, I went to school in Orlando, but then
I went down south and did one of those kind of
collaborative tests where you take one test and
then they give it to a bunch of agencies. And
there was a history, drug, you know, like a criminal
history, you know, pre, pre, whatever it would
be called. Oh my goodness, why am I blanking
on the name? Pre -app. And so I was like, okay,
well, you know, let me be honest. A long time
ago, I tried a couple of things in a different
country, had a great time, you know, was never
late to work. And a guy from Miami Beach screwed
it up and threw it in my face. And I was like,
oh, so honesty isn't what's needed. You have
to lie to become a firefighter. And, you know,
never really thought about it, you know, ended
up getting through polygraphs and getting hired.
But now in this position reflecting. Just talking
about what you were mentioning a minute ago,
there's a big facade that the perfect cop, the
perfect firefighter is someone that's never done
anything bad in their life. And I couldn't disagree
more. Now, there are certain things that you
can't do. I mean, obviously involving children
and other things that, yeah, of course, completely
disqualified. But there's a lot of things I think
that our kind of people find themselves doing
that then once, as you said, they've kind of...
moved away from that and learn from it that end
up being an asset in uniform rather than something
that should strike you off a list oh for 150
percent um i mean we're kind of a good officer
fire they're risk takers they're willing to do
it they're willing to push and you know a lot
of people talk about several things or when something
gets hard But sometimes it just takes like a
fuck it, let's go attitude. And that's going
to be that risk taker who does it. You know what
I mean? The same thing that may have got you
in trouble in high school, like, all right, let's
do it. Like not a lot of thought will make you
a hero in other parts. Absolutely. That's ironic
because I've said this a few times, the same
things that I try that I. was disqualified in
that process for are now being used to heal first
responders and military from PTSD. So there we
go. And they've opened this way up. I mean, they've
lowered the standards so much to try to get people,
you know, it's so it's just wild. It is. Well,
while we're on that subject, I mean, we'll obviously
walk through. But if you were king for a day
with this kind of storied career that you've
had. What do we need to change on the law enforcement
side so we can get back to the type of demand
for policing that we saw 20 years ago? I think
it needs to get back to that more harder, almost
like a paramilitaristic. At least Academy and
things like that. So people know what it's like
to be hard. I mean, I feel like the Academy has
taken more of a business approach rather than,
you know, so they have like HR and you're not
allowed to drop people to do pushups anymore.
It's like their PT is scheduled and it can't
be done outside of that. And I mean, that's just,
that's wild to me. I don't know. Like for us,
it's like you walk by somebody and you looked
at them sideways or like, you know, you just
kind of looked crazy. drop you're like dang it
you know and that but that prepares you for things
that it's not just uh you know everybody wants
to make this a business it's not a business no
i've always said this people say that in the
fire service too i'm like okay well if you're
going to mirror a business why are you mirroring
an indonesian sweatshop rather than yeah because
you really don't want the hr as a business in
a firehouse or a police station, because they're
probably one of the worst, like a true HR person
would lose their mind if they were there. Absolutely.
A hundred percent. Well, speaking of that, then
what was the culture when you walked through
the front door of your agency, as far as mental
health, physical fitness and weapons training?
Jacksonville has always been really, really great.
I mean, I think they still are today. But, like,
you know, our culture, we had a guy, Tom Vautour,
was our lead, like, combatives instructor, and
he was just a man amongst men, and he just, you
know, and he was great. Our firearms have always
been there. Jacksonville's always been kind of
a violent city, and we've had some pretty, you
know, famous shootings and big things happen
with us. we've been a gunfighting culture for
a long time. So I still think Jacksonville has
one of the, like I travel around and do a lot
of things that we, we have a good culture at
our sheriff's office. As you were early in your
career, were you training outside of that as
well? Were you doing other classes? Was that
even a thing back then? Oh yeah, for sure. Like
that was like, I kind of, I think I got that
kind of from my, My sports background, from middle
school to high school, you wanted to become a
starter as soon as possible. When I took that
mentality, I wanted to be a starter immediately
when I became a policeman. Fresh out of the academy,
I would take any classes the academy was putting
out. I trained a lot of MMA stuff at that time
and just doing different stuff to be better.
When I finally made it. and they called my number,
I'd be ready to play. Now, were you trying to
get on the SWAT early in your career or did that
come later? I got on, it took me three years
to get on. And I kind of, my timing was perfect.
We were having the Super Bowl. So we ramped our
SWAT team up in numbers for the Super Bowl. And
I was part of that Super Bowl crew that was able
to come on. So I probably got on a little bit
earlier than some people did, but my timing was
just right. Now, what about fitness standards?
Because this is always interesting. Regular cop
versus SWAT operator. Was there a big disparity
between the two or was it actually close? It
was a huge disparity, especially when I got on
the team. It was, you know. It was pretty much
based on most of it was based on your physical
standards. Like it wasn't, we didn't have a lot
of shooting standards. We didn't have CQB standard.
We didn't have a lot of standards except for
PT. So like, and your PT standard, it was, I
mean, it was big. It's 12 dead hang pull -ups,
mile run and under, I think a mile run under
630, 50 push -ups, 50 sit -ups, legless rope
climb. And then the obstacle course, which doesn't
sound like all that crazy, but when you put it
all together in one morning, it was a kick in
the nuts. And we had to maintain that standard.
And I'm 6 '3". You know, when I went to the academy,
I was 6 '3", 270, playing defensive line in college.
And I was like, you know, I wanted to become
a SWAT guy. So, I mean, I got down to 210. And
I almost didn't make the police academy because
I couldn't run a mile and a half in under 15
minutes. Like I've got like 15, 14, 58 and I
crossed. Like, you know what I mean? It was a,
you know, I ran 40 yard sprints. I didn't do
miles. Like that was crazy to me. And then I
just put a lot of work in it and decided that's
what I wanted to do. So yeah, like, and I'm competing
against, you know, five, eight, 165 pound dudes,
like little ninjas just bouncing around. And,
you know, there was only, I think I did 17 years
on SWAT and there's probably only six of us over
200 pounds. You know what I mean? It's funny.
It's the same with the SEALs and Delta. We all
think that they're these, you know, these bodybuilders
because that's what you and I grew up with, you
know, on TV. And you listen to, you know, the
high performers of the world and you have your
big guys, you know, the Breachers and that particular
type. And you have some. really really small
people in some of these high operator positions
and then as you mentioned it seems like the average
person is kind of like 180 ish so they're not
these you know giant behemoth you know men and
women in these positions usually right so what
about the regular cop then what was the difference
in their fitness standards i mean i still say
there isn't a fitness standard but we do have
a fitness standard and it's it's an obstacle
course they run. It's, you know, get out of a
vehicle, 40 -yard dash, body drag, like up six
stairs, down six stairs. You got to pick up a
50 -pound dumbbell, put it on a table, jump over
a four -foot ditch, and then you got to like
serpentine through something. So, I mean, it's
not even a quarter mile, I don't think. And you
get like an eternity to do it. You know what
I mean? so it's just kind of it's but people
fail it and it surprises me but well what what
i think is strange i mean obviously as you said
i mean you guys are required to wear you know
more protective uh clothing usually or excuse
me protective uh equipment you know you're carrying
maybe larger weapons so you know you're breaching
things that the average street cop is probably
not going to do certainly not very frequently
In my profession, we have special operations,
but that's hazmat, that's rope rescue. It's not
like they have to be above and beyond from the
physical fitness standard, usually. It doesn't
matter who it is. Any of us could be the ones
called to a high rise fire. Any of us could be
called to drag people from a mass shooting. I
mean, there's no rhyme or reason to it. So in
my profession, there's one standard. And sadly,
it's extremely low in a lot of places or absent.
You go through the academy and maybe when you
get hired, you're held to a standard and that's
it. In law enforcement, though. Even though people
maybe don't need to be at the highest level when
it comes to SWAT, there does seem to be this
massive gap between the SWAT performance standards
and everyone else. And arguably, any of those
cops could go to a shooting, could have to run
up to a high -rise fire, whatever it is. So what
is your take on the average fitness standards
in law enforcement outside of SWAT? I mean, I
think they're very low. i i'm a firm believer
and i don't care if it's your first day or your
last day you can never be a liability always
be an asset to your department being asked and
understanding you know you might have to do these
things um i mean physical fitness is a huge part
of our job i mean fighting people are you able
to fight somebody are you i mean it's and it's
you're not going to be able to do it nationally
I mean, our unions, I love our unions for some
things and I hate our unions for some things.
Like what they stick up for and what they like,
you know, our standards are our standards and
they're so low like for physical fitness because
people fight that. Because there have been fat
bodies like their entire life with no discipline
and like they want to complain about it. What's
it got to do with my job? Like everything it
has to do with your job. It has to do with everything.
Yeah, we end up getting a bunch of Uncle Rico's
that, you know, oh, you wait. When adrenaline
hits, I'm going to rise to the occasion. It's
like, no, listen to the - No, you're not. You're
going to have a freaking heart attack and you
become, now I got to pull your ass out. Like,
you know what I mean? It gets wild. Like what
people feel they can do and what they can't do.
And I mean, physical fitness has always been
a part of my life. It's never not going to be
a part of my life. You know, I talk about a lot
after like being shot. after i was shot like
what physical fitness did for me like it got
me into it got me to the fight i think it helped
me in the fist fight i believe it probably helped
me take some of the rounds but it also helped
me return fire because my heart rate wasn't spiked
to all get out you know what i mean and then
it just physical fitness has everything to do
with our job well this is and how they people
how people say it doesn't then you're not doing
it then you're not doing the job right yeah well
i'm always very mindful to underline the fact
that the environment that a lot of us work in
does set you up for failure when it comes to
body composition testosterone etc like shift
work is not kind to the human body that being
said though if you are opposing fitness standards
and again right now if you're talking about the
firefighters where i'm sitting at the moment
that are working 80 hour weeks it's kind of hard
to drop it on them right now because they're
so mismanaged and so overworked that they just
want to go home. They're exhausted and I get
that. But what's nice with this new work week,
the 42 -hour work week, is you can then bring
alongside a punitive fitness standard. Say, all
right, now we finally fixed what's broken. Let's
put something else there that we should have
always had. Because if you're resisting fitness
standards, firstly, you're saying that I'm okay
with the chance of my firefighter. one of their
engine crew or the person that they're going
to save dying because I'm too scared to enforce
a standard. And I'm also actively opposing longevity
of their career and retirement because I don't
want to put in a fitness standard. So there is
no downside in this whole, oh, you're trying
to take our jobs bullshit. In your academy, in
my academy, we knew exactly what was required
of us as far as our fitness. So no one was suddenly
surprising you with, oh, you need to be fit to
be a firefighter. So that's such a cowardly stance
in the first place. That's crazy to me. You know
what I mean? And y 'all are firefighters anyway.
So y 'all, how many hours a day do y 'all get
to work out in that little, I mean, stop playing
video games and cooking for each other and go
work out. But no, I mean, standards, you got,
it's got to be part of your life. And even if
you want to go home, cool, have some discipline.
Like I worked a lot hours, but I got to have
discipline to go to the gym. I got to go. I got
to work out. Even if it's a little something,
you know, that's part of mindset. And that's
part of being hard. Do the things that you don't
want to do all the time, because when it gets
hard, you're going to be able to. to suffer through
it pretty much. You know what I mean? Like you've,
you've put yourself through pain. You, you know,
you understand what it's like. Yeah, no, a hundred
percent. That's why I would do, I did CrossFit
for a long time. And you know, the last time
I'd been kind of air quotes, red line would be
a few days ago, not the Academy, you know, 10,
15 years ago. Oh, 100%. All right. Well, you
mentioned the shoe in before we get to that.
As you progressed through the first few years,
what was some of the career calls that you had?
Man, like when I was in the academy and everything,
I wanted to make SWAT and I wanted to be a canine.
Those were my two, that's all I wanted to do.
So as far as actual calls, did you have any kind
of near misses, you know, large incidents prior
to 2008? Yeah, I mean, I've been in a shooting
prior to 2008. I was in a shooting when I was
on patrol in 06. I was on the SWAT team, but
I mean, I wasn't. It was a patrol shooting and
things like that. So, yeah, I mean, I was in
a bunch of dangerous stuff. That's what we did.
Even when I was on patrol, even before I made
SWAT, I had. three other buddies that we worked
the same shit. We worked midnight shifts and
we worked the same area. And man, we used to
get after it. Our job was to put criminals in
jail. You know what I mean? And we did, we tried
to do our job the best as we could. So what was
the background of the shooting prior then? We
had a guy from Orlando killed his wife in front
of his daughter. He thought that, he thought
that she was cheating on him with another guy.
That guy lived up here. Like even at roll call,
we were briefed. Hey, this is supposedly happening.
He might come up here. Um, few hours later, like
about six hours later into the night, they put
out a house fire at the address where that guy
lived, where the suspected boyfriend lived. Um,
we got there. Um, There was a guy with a gun
out in front watching it burn, which it was the
murder suspect set this guy's house on fire,
was out there. Had a brief standoff with him
for a little bit. He took off running through
the neighborhood back towards the fire where
the firemen were actively working. Me and two
other guys were given a pursuit, kind of cutting
them off. As I went between two houses, he hid
behind like an outside air conditioner. and he
started letting it loose on me as I was going
in between the houses, so I had to go prone.
He was shooting over me. My partner, Scooter,
started letting it eat over top of me. He's telling
me he's behind the air conditioner, and so Scooter
was just putting rounds into that air conditioner,
trying to keep him from coming out. And so then
I was able to kind of backtrack out, get around
the house, get the angle. I can see him around
the other side of the air conditioner, so I started
putting rounds into him. on that side so it was
a good one it was a it was like a movie you know
you're in a neighborhood fire they got a big
fire going it was wild yeah well i mean thank
you for that i mean you definitely uh spared
some firefighter lives probably too because i
mean a number of calls that we've as a nation
have been on you know where a gangbanger has
come back to finish the job and they've killed
paramedics or doctors or nurses so yeah that
could have been horrendous So one thing that's
always intriguing to me, because again, there's
clearly a mental health issue when it comes to
someone that discovers their loved one is cheating,
if that was the case. And this happened to me,
and I didn't go and kill everyone in my neighborhood
in response to that. In all this desperation
and all this violence that you've witnessed through
your career, have you noticed any common denominators
of how these people are getting to this point?
I don't think so. I mean, it's just different
levels of different people. I've been involved
in a bunch of different shootings and just all
different walks of life and how they get involved
in it. And I just understand that there's evil
in this world and there's good people here to
fight it. And that's kind of how you got to think
about it. Like, I don't care why they do it.
I know it exists. You know what I mean? And I'll
just, if God puts me in front of it, I'll handle
it. Absolutely. I think this is the thing. i'll
tell you what i think kicked off like the large
militaristic of law enforcement is the militaristic
of criminals and that was the onset of crack
cocaine crack cocaine changed the narcotics game
it used to be you know you'd go buy weed or quaaludes
at the bar or you know what i mean it was there
was not a trap house there was not fortified
entries they were not protecting it it was that
so when you start militarizing and you start
making strongholds Well, we got to still defeat
that. So we got to up our games. I mean, that's
all that's happening. When drugs get violent,
then you got to answer violence with violence.
That's the only thing that you can control it
with. I mean, you can do the programs to like
stop, like kind of stop the need for it. But
the only thing that stops violence once violence
goes is violence. Absolutely. Well, this is always
an interesting question to ask anyone in law
enforcement because you are the men and women
that were told to enforce laws, you know, period.
When I look at the time I spent in uniform, there
were so many... kind of uh ripple effects of
the failure of drug prohibition in general you
know the empowerment of drugs in the under underworld
and you know the immigration issues and some
of the the cartels you know the homelessness
the sex work you know goes on and on and on and
there are places in other parts of the world
now where they had the same kind of issue tried
our model the american model decided it didn't
work and then ended up taking the addicts i'm
not talking about the smugglers i'm not talking
about the dealers but the addicts and they put
them in the hands of the medical community rather
than arresting them but with that and this is
an important point also gave a lot of funding
to mental health counseling addiction counseling
job creation housing and it wasn't even forcing
them into doing it it was educating them that
they had this opportunity portugal is a great
example of this And they revolutionized addiction
in their country. And then the law enforcement
and the court system was freed up to really start
hitting the dealers and the smugglers. That being
said, that's my opinion. That's what I think
is something that we could consider in the future.
Without loading the question, though, what is
your perception on the success of war on drugs?
And would you change anything and do it differently?
We're, we're losing it. You know what I mean?
Like, and the thing is with drugs, make them
illegal or not illegal. You know what I mean?
Like there's, you can't bounce around with it.
I'm all for getting people treatment and all
that. But what about the crimes they committed?
People are saying, well, I'm a drug addict. Well,
cool. You robbed somebody. I don't care about
your drugs at that point. And I mean, like you
talked about mental health, the mental health
system in the United States is broken. We, we
think that calling somebody a crazy person offends
them. And like, you can't offend, you know what
I mean? Like it's, it's off the rock. Like, no,
they're crazy. Like, you know what I mean? We've
gotten rid of loony bins. Like we don't have
them anymore. You know what I mean? Unless you're
criminally insane, but there are people like,
so like you have to look at like, where is our
homeless people? Our homeless people. probably
have drug or mental health issues. It's not a
job issue. It's not a lack of job or a lack of
money. You can give them all the money they want
and they'll hide it in a tin can or something
and sleep in a tent. And you know what I mean?
It's because they're not fit to live by themselves.
And people, I don't think that sometimes our
family structure breaks down and we don't take
care of people like we should take care of. That
mentally ill person's our father. Yeah, it's
hard on us. but they give up on them and they
put them somewhere else you know what i mean
yeah it's it's we don't have the family structure
nor the that to to deal with and calling someone
crazy or because they are crazy is is legitimate
like i don't care about your feelings you know
i mean so Well, that's what I find. What I understand,
the reason why homelessness got so bad in the
States was exactly like you talked about, because
they shut all the psychiatric facilities. And
a lot of those people ended up homeless. You
have obviously people that are being released
from prisons that, you know. Again, probably
a lot of them still had access to drugs at that
point, and then they're not given an address.
So then you've got this compounding element is
what I'm trying to say. It's not a victim mentality
at all. And again, certainly with the crimes
associated with addiction, that's a separate
conversation, 100%. Those still have to be penalized.
Taking that kind of altruistic model, and again,
you're not going to get all of them. This is
another important point. But that large portion
in the middle that you can just steer back into
mental health to find their feet again and get
them a job and get them some housing, this is
what they found in a lot of these other nations.
But what you and I have seen on the streets,
the way that we're doing it now is not working,
and it's making it more and more dangerous for
our first responders. one 150 it's getting more
dangerous i mean it's getting the courts are
more lenient so you you get away with this you're
gonna go to this go to this go to this and then
you just get sick and tired of it and you know
and the attacks on law enforcement and just the
lack of respect for like law enforcement like
slapping a policeman When I started, you would
go to prison. You know what I mean? If you were
outside of a bar and you were just some drunk
whatever and you hit a policeman, you battered
a law enforcement officer, you were going to
prison for a short period or you were going to
do some freaking time. Now they look at us like,
well, it's kind of your job to get hit. No, it's
not our job to get hit. Once you allow these
things to go on forever, then it becomes culturally
acceptable. I don't really like... having law
enforcement in our schools like our sros how
they currently are because i feel like you inoculate
kids to the presence of law enforcement like
i when i was a kid i never saw a policeman you
know what i mean unless i was in trouble or like
you knew how to act they're not your friend they
are there they are the authority they are the
rule it's almost like you know teachers are your
mom And police officers are your dad. If you
were getting in trouble, yeah, I'll talk to my
mom a certain way. But when my dad walked in
the room, you're like, all right, never mind.
Yes, sir. You know what I mean? It changes you.
So there has to be that level there. And I also
feel like they make police officers in schools
become rule enforcement officers and not law
enforcement officers. You know what I mean? And
that shouldn't be how it is. I'm not there. to
deal with those kids. I'm there to protect those
kids from an active shooter or anybody coming
in there. And I'm also there to put kids in jail
for doing criminal acts on school campus. That
is it. I'm not there to lecture them or talk
to them about things. That's not a law enforcement
officer's job. And they keep giving us these
more jobs of, you know, you have to be the counselor
and this and that with everybody. But that's...
That's not really the job. Well, I had a really
bad experience with an SRO and a principal, my
son's middle school, and uncovered the fact that
they were Baker acting kids left, right, and
fucking center. Anytime the kid had any sort
of kind of emotional response, they were shipping
them off for a 20, excuse me, a 72 hour hold.
And I didn't realize that this was a national
conversation. I think actually, I want to say
Tampa, especially was one of the biggest voices.
And then what ended up happening is they changed
the rules. So now if that happened, there was
a consequence. Because when I went to the sheriff's
office and the school system, the school blamed
the sheriff and the sheriff blamed the school.
It was fucking nauseating. And because you add
to the fact that you then get seemingly, in some
cases, some of the worst police officers sent
to our schools. who not only have no backbone,
God forbid you do get a shooter, but are also
making horrendous decisions like this. So I think
the right kind of person can be an asset in the
school, but the wrong kind of person can destroy
a school. 100%. Well, they're not going to put
the right kind of person in a school. They're
going to put the wrong kind of... Because, I
mean, I've gotten into it with SROs too, because
they feel like they work for the principal of
that school. You know what I mean? I'm like,
no, you work for the sheriff. You work like,
you know what I mean? Like you don't work for
the school board. You don't work for, you work
for, you are a law enforcement and they don't,
they don't get it. Like it's a lot of times,
like when we'd work off duty, like sometimes
I'd work off duty, like at a hospital, you know,
they're like, Hey, they call me into the ER.
I need you to tell this person to be quiet. I'm
like, all right, well, are we going to kick him
out of here if he's not? And they're like, well,
no, we can't do that. I was like, then I'm not
telling him to be quiet. You know what I mean?
They're like, why can't you? I'm like, I'm a
law enforcement officer. So if I go there and
tell him to be quiet and he looks at me and says,
fuck you. What's my next step? You know, without
having a law that's being broke, I got to tuck
my tail. All right. Thank you, sir. Thank you
for talking to me. That's not how it's and people
get mad because they're, will we pay you? I was
like, no, that's not what you pay me for. You
know what I mean? I am not. there to intimidate
somebody i'm not there to show if i better have
a reason to talk to you a legal reason to talk
to you before i go up there and do it and like
that's the same thing with these schools you
know i mean it's sros feel they work for the
school that principal and their rules not what
you know even their agencies general orders say
Well, while we're on the topic, yesterday, obviously,
there was a couple of horrendous shootings. Charlie
Kirk was assassinated, for lack of a better word.
And then we had a shoot in Evergreen High School
in Colorado as well. So while we're on this topic,
what do you think is the best model for this
kind of violence crisis that we have at the moment
in our schools, as far as whether it's SROs,
armed teachers, or any other suggestions that
you've got? I mean, I'm all for arming teachers
if they want to and they want to go through the
training and do things, because at least that's
somebody that wants to be there and wants to
put forth the protection, you know, that they're
doing. I'm all for arming teachers. I don't think
it's a. I mean, the best thing to do would rotate
guys like really put. And you're not going to
do it because the meat eaters don't want to go
sit in the school. You know what I mean? It would
almost have to be a duty aside from your normal
job. And it'd be a short, short term. Like I'm
going to sign you there for two weeks and you
are not doing any SRO. Like you're not, but the,
that principal won't let that happen. Like, I
don't need you to walk in the halls. Like I need
you patrolling outside and able to respond inside
quickly and quickly and deadly. and that your
only job there is to do those type things but
it gets very very monotonous because i mean the
chances of it happening are very rare but that's
why you just got to kind of put dudes in maybe
like on a couple week rotations but that should
not be their job because they're they too will
get complacent yeah I mean, this is, I would
look at when I was a firefighter, I didn't want
to be in the quiet places. I wanted to be in
the hood my whole career until the last place.
I didn't really have a hood, but, but yeah, but
that's a good idea because I mean, if you are
rotating through, then a lot of the, you know,
the people that would be at the tip of the spear
are also then going to be familiar with the layout
of the school and exits and windows. So I could
see how a rotation actually would be an asset
for the first team that's responding to. Yeah.
And I mean, you look at these, active shooters
and all that man it's the same kids we stuffed
in a closet or in the lockers you know don't
be scared of them they're not john rambo they're
not some terrorist supercell it's not the attack
of beslan just get after it go get them and put
them in put them in davey jones's locker you
know what i mean that's all you got to do is
just be ready to attack and get after them i
mean you've trained all over the country you
have your own training group When you look at
some of these failures of that, Parkland, Duvaldi,
et cetera, what are you seeing culturally that's
creating that kind of circumstance in the first
place? Cowardism. If you allow cowardism, you
will get cowardism. Duvaldi was cowards. You
saw them go up. They made it to that door. They
were doing good things. And then they were challenged.
by gunfire and they ran away and then they started
making excuses why they ran away and why they
did it and tried to make it into a tactical decision
why they ran out of there they were pure cowards
parkland was a coward people showed up and went
to do work and instead of bringing out how great
people were that did the work They concentrate
kind of on the lower of who didn't do the work.
But there are several people there that didn't
do the work. You know what I mean? Like when
you watch Uvalde, because they kept putting out,
well, he's barricaded. Those Bortak guys, they
didn't know that there was people shot inside
that room, right? Yeah, he's barricaded, but
they're on a timeline right now where the people
are bleeding out and dying in that room and we
need to get in there. And you watch like a BORTAC
team leader, like they're in a little talk and
you kind of see him walk away and he walks back
and you can almost like, you can see it on his
face. He's like, what? There's people in there.
And then he literally was like, fellas, get up,
let's go. And those dudes went in there and handled
business because those guys were ready to do
work, understood the mission and were ready to
die for that mission. And that's the people that
you have to go do it. And they handle that situation
appropriately. So culturally, and I see this
is what worries me about the bar being lowered,
fitness standards being lowered, is when you
have a crucible and you have a high demand in
a first responder profession, where you're taking
the top five, 10 % of an entire list, the chances
of getting the right kind of person. Increased
dramatically when you lower standards, when you
have no fitness standards, I feel like you're
opening barn doors then for the wrong kind of
person as well. What do we do to turn this around
where the chances of having someone without the
backbone for the profession being at our child's
school is diminished significantly? Man, it just
goes to the culture of law enforcement. I don't
think it, I mean, I don't think you can. Like
we're not too far gone, but it's just like with
any job, man, 10 % do 90 % of the work, you know
what I mean? And they don't want to get stuck
in a, in a, and I mean, everybody gets a trophy
mint, all that stuff comes back to where we're
at today, that they try to diminish men and,
and, people being meat eaters and getting after
it and not just men being men but women even
in like being a warrior you know doing these
things a woman warrior is like very held high
a man as a warrior that like oh you're just a
piece of you know what i mean like it's a weird
dynamic on what they're they're trying to do
like you know you go girl or whatever like but
a dude doing the same thing and with that same
mindset and that same I mean, I guess probably
because we are more dangerous than they are or
what, but it's one of those things that it's
just a huge society thing. And it's not in law
enforcement. It's in the world. It's in just
how it is. It's not just law enforcement. We
are, we are a, you know, a reflection of what
the world is today. You know what I mean? And
if the world, and I feel like we lost it in law
enforcement a lot because, and probably in, And
firefighters too, you know, September 11, 2001
changed a lot of things. If I wasn't already
on the job, I would probably have been in the
military. Because you just get that calling and
we've got a lot of men and women who got that
calling to go to the military to fight for our
country. Hopefully we start getting those guys
back, but we changed during that time. And now
who wants to be part of that shit? You know what
I mean? Who wants to? Get bashed on camera, get
a cell phone shoved in your face, not backed
by law enforcement, not backed by your command
staff. You know what I mean? And I feel terrible,
man, but I've just always worked for good sheriffs.
The sheriff of Jacksonville right now, he backs
his guys when they do wrong, he puts them down.
But when he does right, he lets people know,
you know, violence doesn't look good. Like that's
what I think is a bad part of body cameras is.
When you shoot somebody and you write a report
and it reflects exactly when someone reads something,
they don't have that emotional reaction to it.
Because nobody wants to watch another person
die. You know what I mean? It creates a physical
reaction. And if I'm in a job to fix that, if
I get that reaction, that must feel like it's
wrong. It's not wrong. It's just... It is what
it is. So it's easier to kind of read things
and say, okay, that worked. But seeing it is
bad for them. That's one thing I've heard from
some of the canine guys I've had on the show.
Mike Goosby is a good example. He's an LA PD
guru, like canine guru. My brain's not working
today, probably. And he's talking about the optics
of the canine program. And yet, of course, when
someone's got their arm in a German Shepherd
or Malinois' mouth, it doesn't look great. But
firstly, when you hear the percentage of bites
in a canine officer's career, it's not very many
at all. And then you look at the alternative.
Well, if they couldn't use a dog, then they're
probably going to have to use lethal force. So
it's safer for the officer. It's safer for the
person that they're trying to pursue as well.
But again, that's a middle of the road, common
sense conversation, and it doesn't fit the extremes
of either side. Right. And you're right. But
writing a canine report is different than watching
a dog do it. You know what I mean? And because,
you know, what? They feel like, well, they couldn't
get that dog off. Well, it's a dog. You know
what I mean? Like it's the really, it's the best
trained dog in, you know, some in the world,
but it's still a dog. You might have to get them
to release. You might have to do, and the people
don't like to see those things happen, but it
is what it is. You know what I mean? It's got
to happen. And it's just, it's just, that's the
nature that we're at now. And now people just
don't want to put, put hands on people or do
anything. Because of different crazy politicians
trying to use law enforcement as one of their
own pawns. Yeah, exactly. Well, speaking of significant
events, let's go to January 26, 2008. It sounds
to me like the beginning of this was quite a
benign event compared to some of the high -level
events that you've responded to prior. So how
did that day begin for you and then walk us through
it? So, man, I was working off -duty at a mall,
but I've worked every Saturday for years. And
started with a shoplifter. We got out there.
Me and my partner got out there. One of the shoplifters
was fighting loss prevention. One of them ran
off. By the time we got there, they were dusting
off the guy who fought, and they're like, hey,
the black guy also stole something. We want him
apprehended. I look across the parking lot, me
and my partner, and we see a guy about 75 yards
across the parking lot at a bus stop, but he's
kind of separated himself, and he sees us see
him. That big aha moment, he takes off running.
We give chase. We chase them across Arlington
expressway, which is like a six lane highway
about seven 40 at night. So that was a little
bit of frogger to get across there and into a
shopping center. And he ran to the shopping center
as we cut through the parking lot. So we were
able to like, kind of, we were heading them off
at the pass. I saw his legs get like, like he
got the wobble legs. I was like, Ooh, yeah, he's
done. I was like, I'm gonna pick it up and go
get them. So I picked up and ran. And when I
got to the corner, I told him, you know, hey,
stop running. You're now dealing with the police.
This isn't, like, let's go back and handle this.
And he turns around and looks at me and puts
his hands up, but he doesn't say a word. He just
keeps backpedaling. I tell him, stop, or I'm
going to tase him. He starts running again. I
attempt to tase him. Nothing happens. My taser
malfunctions. So I have to safe that, go hands
-on with him. We probably, as soon as I put my
hands on him, like I grabbed his hood, he had
a zip -up hooded sweatshirt. When I grabbed that
hood, I was going to dump him to the ground.
Well, as soon as I put my hood, he spun high
and broke my grip, and then he came to rest with
his hands tucked like this. And I was like, all
right, well, we're fighting now. So we got into
a brief physical fight, and then seconds into
that, he produced a Glock 21 with a .45 caliber.
glock and uh shot me through my chin exited out
my neck hit my body armor here which that shot
made me start rolling down like this embankment
it was like at a like it was on top of a retention
pond without any like so no water in it it was
about 25 yards circumference about five feet
deep so i'm rolling down that thinking all right
he i thought he punched me because i never saw
the gun i was like all right because it felt
just like i heavy impact. I'm kind of dazed.
And like, I'm telling myself, Hey, get up, get
up, get up. But nothing's really working at speed
that I needed to, except for my brain. And, you
know, as I'm rolling, I can, I feel with my tongue
and, um, my jaw has now collapsed on top of itself
and my teeth are laying flattened in my mouth.
So I was like, all right, something else is going
on. And then I look up and he's standing over
top of me shooting me. So like, that's when I
realized I was in a gunfight. So as I'm like
shaking off the cobwebs and he's going, he starts
like walking away. And every time I move, he
would shoot at me and he'd shoot at me. But when
I drew my laying on my back and I drew my pistol
strong hand only trying to get to my feet, I'm
pushing off the ground and I start engaging him
from my back. And as I'm engaging him, he starts
coming back on me, trying to put me back down.
So he's coming in. I knew I was getting good
hits and I finally make it to my knees. as he
closes in on me so i lunge up and i grab him
and i pull him down to me like as like as we're
falling to the ground as soon as we hit the ground
i put my muzzle to his head and i give him three
contact shots to his head ending that fight um
so that ended it my partner came and did it i
ended up taking a total of seven rounds so that
one through my face i took three across my body
armor in the front my left leg i took one above
the knee exited out my hip Or exit up on my thigh,
into my right buttock, took one into there. It
hit my hip, broke my hip and lodged there. And
then I took a graze of my right elbow. So before
we get into what happened next, when you learned
about this individual, what was his history that
contributed to him having such a violent response
to the arrest? I don't know. Nothing. he had
one prior arrest before this for um trespass
but it was like him and some friends went to
a neighborhood under construction and once the
power was they like went into a house and threw
a keg party like he was not like i don't maybe
his lack of criminal knowledge and he had a gun
on him like maybe he thought it was going to
be like he was going to prison but like you know
street thugs know just to throw the gun down
and be like that i don't know about that and
then you know but so maybe his lack of the criminal
justice system i mean i don't know and i don't
care you know what i mean he made a decision
and we got it on yeah so so talk to me about
the next few hours initially i had one of my
friends drew stokes on a while ago he was another
guy shot in a public's parking lot um he's a
uh coast guard um And, you know, he literally
died on the operating table. So what was the
trauma when they got you into the hospital? I
mean, I never lost consciousness. I never did
it like it was. I was ready to go to surgery,
if that makes sense, because like the pain was
still there and it would it would kind of not
really come in waves, but it wasn't a sharp and
it wasn't a crazy pain. But like it would just
kind of like, man, I am tired. of hurting right
now i would like to go to sleep and wake up fixed
like that's kind of how i was in the you know
i saw my family i talked to them i figured i
was going to be all right if i made it into the
operating table like they weren't rushing like
i didn't have any major artery hits i didn't
have anything crazy that they could see you know
what i mean as they wheel me around at the test
so um i didn't feel like i was gonna die Now,
when I went into surgery, I got a really, really
high fever. And they were worried I was going
to die because they couldn't bring my fever.
They didn't know what was going on with me. But
I had no idea that happened because I was under
anesthesia. So my family had to worry about that,
not me. What was the background for the fever?
That's unusual for trauma. I don't know. I don't
know why it kicked in. That's what was keeping
me in the ICU and stuff. I wonder if it was even
the head injury that was sending off your thermoregulation
or something. Yeah, I don't know. So you enter
this shift fully capable, just thinking you're
going to do another few hours in the mall. Now
you've had this near -death experience. You've
had your physicality taken away from you. you're
not you know able to do the job the next day
so that purpose identity has been challenged
what are the next few weeks and months like for
you mentally man i mean it was just getting back
from an injury like that's like i never had any
no one around me my wife no one ever thought
that i was gonna not be a policeman anymore like
this changed it was just literally now it's time
to get back to work so like um i've been injured
before through sports it's just getting your
mindset and getting back to work and everything
it works around that goal like you know i mean
the pain was was you know was there and it was
but i had my jaw wired shut which sucked like
man like that that was more mental than anything
like you know living on soup broth and just like
you know, protein shakes and just losing a lot
of weight, losing energy. I mean, that sucked
bad. But once like my jaw, you know, the surgeries
came and it was just now, all right, let's get
back to work. How long was your rehab from injury
to being fully fit for duty again? Six months.
But I say that. because I'd go back to duty,
then I'd have to get another surgery on something
I had to get like, so I was out probably just
under a year and a half over six years. But like
different things would come up and I'd have to
get a surgery and things like that. So I mean,
it lasted a long time, but I got back to work,
you know, six months. And I think it's because
I was ready to get like I pushed to get back
to work like I've had Dave Grossman on a few
times now, and obviously he, you know, on Killing
on Combat, he talks about all the things that
happen in a shooting. When you reflect back,
you know, what were these changes physiologically
and psychologically that allowed you to keep
fighting despite, you know, physical wounds and
fear as well? I mean, man, I was never afraid.
It was... I was playing the game. It had a high
stakes game, but I wanted to win. Like all I
could think about was winning. And like I was,
you know, I always put that it kicked in. I was
angry, but it wasn't a blind rage. It would be
more of like if we were going to race and you
got a head start and no one called you on it.
You know what I mean? And I'm like, what? So
then I had to run harder from behind. All I was
doing is fighting from behind. I've done it before.
Just because you start losing doesn't mean you're
going to end losing. Just stay in it and do what
you're doing and fight. And I don't know if I
would have lost, I wouldn't have known it. I
just would have went out. I would have gone out
fighting. You mentioned taking the job seriously
right from the get -go. After you finally get
back to work, what, if anything, did you change
as far as strength and conditioning, weapons
training, what you were wearing, et cetera? Really
nothing. The only thing that I would have changed
from that incident was like when I grabbed him,
I was going to dump him back and we were going
to go to the ground together. Because at the
time, you know, I played football. I was doing
MMA, jujitsu, and I'm comfortable on the ground.
That's probably not the best place to be. In
law enforcement or anybody, when you're carrying
a gun, like up close, like I probably should
just ran up and pushed them. And then maybe the
gun would have fallen out or I would at least
had some distance if he would have went to the,
you know what I mean? Like that, but literally
we've, I got to put them in handcuffs. I got
to go hands on. I've been in hundreds of foot
pursuits. It's just, I was ambushed. You know
what I mean? And the only way to get through
an ambush is fight through it. And that's, that's
what I did. I just interviewed Mitch Aguiar the
other day, and he's got the Adopt -a -Cop BJJ
program. Yeah. What is, I mean, obviously you're
walking the walk when it comes to MMA. Talk to
me about the importance of judo, wrestling, jiu
-jitsu, or any other kind of combative art when
it comes to law enforcement. I mean, it's a must
because it's just all about body control. Even
if someone's not fighting you. like just handcuffing
somebody on the ground or like a high -risk handcuffing
or just like risk control when escorting somebody,
it matters. Do you know what I mean? And it protects
that person that you're escorting too. Because
if I can just escort you properly and you understand
that, all right, this guy may know something.
He has me controlled. I'm not going to do anything.
That's better for you and me. Me just grabbing
your hand and you taking a swing on me, that's
bad for you. bad for me and bad for like your
future like you know i mean you're now adding
serious charges to it so i mean it's a must i
mean just it's not the end -all be -all but you
better have some good like body control and understanding
how it works with people A common denominator
from a lot of people that have been on here that
have had both, you know, excellent strength and
conditioning and, you know, martial arts is they
seem to report far fewer shootings, far fewer
hands -on events than seemingly some of the other
people. And I think that projection of just knowing.
you know what you know and having that physicality
seems to be very disarming for the people that
would be kind of in the middle you got the people
they're going to comply regardless you're going
to people who have they're going to fight regardless
but that middle ground just having that in shape
confident male or female police officer i would
argue saves a lot of lives in uniform and outside
just by projecting the fact that you don't want
to with that person just go quiet you don't have
to argue that that's human nature nobody wants
to get their ass with you know what i mean like
like even if they want to fight the police in
their mind they have a chance of winning you
know what i mean and they don't and a lot of
people you know you do have those people who
are going to comply and people who are going
to fight no matter what you know what i mean
that could be a mental health thing that could
be whatever but people who have a decision they
typically decide not to go that route yeah well
i think that that just again supports the fitness
standards it supports you know giving you know,
grappling training to our law enforcement officers,
because the more prepared you can make them,
I think the more disarming it is for that middle
group then. Well, I mean that, and your confidence
on that, like, you know what I mean? You're not
going to jump to putting hands on people or doing
these things because you're confident in what
you can do. You know what I mean? And being able
to talk to people, I think you, and I don't like
to use the word scared, but less. scared you
are and you can you can talk things into people
and just like let them understand what's how
it's going to go you know they don't well they
don't want to do that yeah what even as you mentioned
with the law enforcement side too if you've got
someone who's deconditioned their go -to might
be lethal force straight away so you might think
that lowering standards is better for the the
department but how much is that going to cost
you millions and millions of someone wrongfully
shoot someone because they didn't have the ability
to go hands -on because they weren't held to
a standard at the front door. Oh, you're, you're,
you're exactly right. And then they sit there
and they go code black. You know what I mean?
There's all kinds of crazy videos of just people
not ready to do the job and they're probably
still doing the job. You know what I mean? Yeah,
same in our profession. And again, I'm very compassionate.
Again, underlining, there are things in our environment
that contribute to some of these issues. But
if you are operational and you're on a fire engine
or in a police car and you're just not able to
do the job right now, then there needs to be
an on -ramp process to get you back to where
you need to be. And if you're willing to put
the work in, there should be a year, year and
a half to get you back. But I think we're going
back to the unions that we're talking about.
They defend the people that aren't prepared to
put in the work, that don't have the heart to
do it. And that's a completely different conversation.
That person shouldn't be in uniform. It's your
fault. Yeah, it's your fault. Why do they need
a physical stamp? It's everything you try to
put. And some people think it's great. And then
some people, they'll... They fight their ass
off because they just want to be lazy and they
want to carry out their job, you know, and do
whatever because they don't want to lose their
job. And I get that. But it's not about them
anymore. It's about us and the people, the community
and everything. If you're unable to do your job,
then go find a different job. Yeah. Well, this
is what's interesting when you talk to, you know,
the special operations community, when you talk
to high level coaches that work with athletes
or people that were athletes themselves, the
amount of support that they get, strength and
conditioning, nutrition, sports psychology, I
mean, you know, physical therapy, all the things
to perform at a high level, either in war or
in sports. is incredible. And then you look at
fire, police, EMS, even when we have some of
those people come to our agencies, a lot of times
it's just, well, we're going to try and get you
to die a little bit less than you do at the moment,
rather than forging performance. So I think that
there's, you know, now that in this fire side
that we're starting to see this shift in this
work week, this is what I'm hoping will be the
next step. is that we have not only fitness standards,
but we have these professionals coming in and
working with our men and women in uniform to
work on their psychology. God forbid they get
in a shooting. To be, you know, work towards
a purple belt in jujitsu or whatever the thing
is so that we can actually look at the performance
side rather than just be constantly on the back
foot talking about the cancers and the heart
attacks and the suicides. I mean, I think that's
great and it's all well intended. but it will
not be well attended you will have a guy sitting
in an empty gym because or the same 10 people
will come non -stop because they love it because
they're this is great i got my own personal trainer
like i would eat that up but people aren't there
because of the to me it's not because of the
lack of availability of it they're there because
the lack of debt of dedication to themselves
and the discipline they don't do it like that's
they are comfortable in their job they've done
it long enough that they understand all right
i've gotten out of shape and i'm still able to
do my job they don't look at it like i can't
do my job as well as i could have done it before
and it's i mean i think it's all well and good
but i think it's going to be a waste of money
Because the people who are going to be there
are going to work out anyway. They're going to
go to jiu -jitsu anyway. You're helping them
out great because you're giving them a free one.
But that's, it's just until we change the culture
and get back to it. And, you know, we used to
have like shooting contests, like a top gun law
enforcement, right? Now we do. golf tournaments
and softball games we don't it's a we do different
things then we need to bring it we're not going
to be able to bring it back like i think it's
just too far gone but there are going to be people
there that can do the job and just let them work
let them do it and don't ostracize them because
they are going to be the minority well that's
what i'm hoping is if we can turn this recruitment
crisis around by fixing some of these things.
And now you're taking the top percentage of,
you know, whatever list that that group of meat
eaters or alphas, or I hate that word alpha,
but you know, the, the people that are fired
up and driven by the job, um, you know, we'll
start expanding and that will kind of push, push
the walls wider and wider and wider. And then
that performance side will be a much bigger conversation,
but to underline your point. Tim Kennedy, I know
he's had some stuff around him recently, but
he did Sheepdog Response here in Ocala a few
years ago, right after Parkland. And someone
sponsored a bunch of spots. And they did a whole
load for the law enforcement, because they have
the two, they have civilian law enforcement,
and then all us firefighters did the civilian
one. Civilian one was fully sold out. And then
the second day, I think we were all still there.
The law enforcement, they didn't even fill all
the spots. And then day two, they had a bunch
of no -shows. And Tim was telling me about this.
And this is the problem is, again, well -intended,
completely free two -day seminar teaching on
the law enforcement side, literally what you
do as a job, you know, weapons and hands -on
tactics, combatives. And in Marion and Ocala
combined, they couldn't even fill a room with
police officers and get them to come back the
next day. And kudos to the ones that were there.
Obviously, they were the ones that got it. But
it does illustrate. the issue that you're talking
about, which is if you're just going through
the motions and you're scared of being exposed,
because that's the whole point of training. You
deliberately get exposed so you can figure out
what needs to be worked on. But if you're scared
of even looking in the mirror as a firefighter
or a police officer, that's terrifying in itself.
If you make it optional, they're going to opt
out. I mean, the culture is going to have to
be you go or you lose your job. Even if they
go and they don't put out and they don't want
to be there and they bitch, it's still better
than sitting on the couch and bitching. You know
what I mean? But it needs to be a mandatory thing
and what you do. You can't make it and that's
where unions are going to lose their mind or
do whatever. All right, I'm giving everybody
on this shift one hour of PT. And if you're at
work, you'll be at PT. You know what I mean?
Oh, I got a court date. I got this. I mean, the
excuses are going to come out. The guys that
are there every day are going to stay there every
day. The guys that we're talking about, they're
going to make excuses and they're going to do
something. But that's up for management. And
I don't think law enforcement is really a good
manager. You know, just because you're a good
policeman and you took a test doesn't make you
a good sergeant or a good manager or a good leader,
you know, and pushing dudes to do these things.
And that's where I never had that culture because
our culture on our SWAT team, I did 17 years
on SWAT. I never really left the team. And our
culture was we PT together. We work, you know
what I mean? We do everything together and we
hold each other. So we dropped kind of our PT
standards for once you make the team for just
to keep guys long, because we were losing guys
after like three or four years because they're
just really beat out. But we had a PT standard.
And it was up to, and then people were, well,
the people were going to do this. I was like,
bro, they don't make it to where we're at and
then give up on PT. You know, that makes like,
you're going to PT. Like I told myself, I can't
wait till I retire. Cause I'm going to, I'm just
become a fat ass and not work out and bubble.
Yeah. That doesn't happen. It's, it's in my,
it's where I'm at now. Like, I feel like shit
if I don't work out in a day, you know what I
mean? It's. You got to make it mandatory. And
then maybe once you make it mandatory and you
stick it out for several years, then even new
people who come on understand that this is the
standard. When I come on, it's the, you're going
to get rid of the people who've been there before
the standard because they're going to bitch.
You know what I mean? So you got to give it three
years to phase those people out or, you know,
get on the train or get off the train, but this
train's moving. Yeah. Well, I think, again, when
you have a high standard in the academy and then
you set a high standard in the orientation of
your department and then you maintain it with
annual fitness standards and realism in training,
it's easy to stay in shape. It's when you stop
and you have no standards and people come deconditioned,
they've genuinely got, you know, 50, 100, 150
pounds to lose. That is daunting. So the solution
is to... not lower the standard and maintain
that. And I think this is what we're seeing now
is a lot of unions. I'm a huge believer in the
union philosophy. I've paid my dues my whole
career. But when I look back, I mean, just at
the work week on itself, like the place, the
city that our union is out of at the moment is
Boston. 42 -hour firefighter work week. Zero
conversation about, well, hey, maybe the rest
of the country should work this beautiful work
week that we have. Nothing. So if fundamentally
even the work we won't put your neck out for,
then, you know, what are we paying you for? And
so it's not about getting rid of unions. It's
just like questioning who we've got in those
positions. And are they doing what's right for
our people? And that means our own people in
uniform, their own health, their own longevity,
their relationships, and then our ability to
protect the public. And if there's a disconnection
between. making our men and women perform at
the highest level and make them have the greatest
longevity and what they're actually doing, then
you have to revisit, is this the right person
with the right policies? Because if they don't
have the guts to even enforce a fitness standard
in a job where lives are at stake, then why the
fuck are you even here? Right. And do you think
that, like, look at the chiefs and all this stuff
that are high up, do you think they want a physical
standard? but they should you know what i mean
it doesn't matter they should 100 well that's
not my job it doesn't matter like you got you
know it's the standard is the standard and they
need to uphold it but you're not going to get
it man you i mean it's just not going to happen
because to the majority of people are lazy i
mean you have great intentions and that's going
to happen but i mean It's beating your head against
a brick wall. If you think like, you know, you
know, lazy is going to be lazy. I mean, you can
see it change in some small departments. Like
you can see some small departments or small units
and you're like, man, these guys, these are the
example. And you get a large thing where they
have, where they've had a bad culture. They're
not going to put in there because you're going
to have too many bad apples to even. make that
orchard worthwhile all right well you you come
back from you know this near -death incident
you you know you rehab mentally you rehab physically
before you transition now you're in the obviously
we're still in SWAT should I say were there any
other officer involved shootings that you were
a part of and then how again did that factor
in compared to you know the almost dying in one
prior to that yeah so i got involved in where
i was a shooter i was involved in two more uh
shootings um but i mean we got shot at a bunch
and a lot of like i've probably been involved
in 15 shootings where people are like shooting
out windows at us and doing like maybe not directly
at me or i'm not shooting but like a lot of high
stress shooting things where i'm writing reports
on the shooting but not you know i wasn't being
a shooter and you know yeah i mean i've been
involved in a bunch of different ones and each
one affected me a little bit differently like
so the one we had a guy he killed his brother
his brother's friend tried to kill his mom and
dad they are only alive due to modern medicine
you know um shot them all with a with a 12 gauge
kind of disappeared into the woods um robbed
the store did some things we had them in we did
like a there's a four -day manhunt in these woods
for them a woodland search uh we kind of gave
up the woodland search but we kept like a like
a qrf of SWAT guys in that area like around the
clock and we would respond to you know if neighbors
called they heard something or did something
and uh we responded to a farm and We ended up
finding the guy inside of a boat that was on
land. It was on a trailer, but back with canine
kind of tracked to this thing. And we ended up
shooting him and killing him in the boat. And,
man, that was a big relief for me. Like, to me,
everyone in law enforcement or everyone who carries
a gun or probably even in the firefighter world.
Like everybody has that dream, like you can't
pull the trigger or the trigger so hard it won't
go or the guns not like, you know what I mean?
Like, I don't know how it is in the final, like
that water's not coming out. I don't know what
it is, but like, it's that fear of not being
able to answer the bell, you know? And I answered
the bell prior to this, but then after being
shot after, like, I, I felt like I was okay and
I didn't really have any problems, but you never
know until you answer the bell again. So answering
the bell on that shooting, like, I mean, I was,
I was relieved and happy and I was talking to,
he ended up being our undersheriff, but he was,
I think just our team leader or tactical guy
at the time or our Lieutenant. And he's, you
know, just checking on me, Jared, how you doing?
And I was like, man, I needed that. And he's
like, Jared, you never need shootings. You know
what I mean? And. I explained it to him. I was
like, I needed, I go through the door all the
time with these guys and they have to be able
to count on me just like I count on them. And
now taking away that, that question, whether
or not I can respond or is the gunfire going
to make me, I don't like go into relapse or something
crazy. You know what I mean? But it was, it was
good. And I needed it because I needed to know
that I could do the job. and be good for the
fellas you know i mean and the community well
i think that goes back to being a rookie doesn't
it when you first start yeah i mean are you gonna
exact same thing it restarted my shooting clock
kind of like i was like i need this to kind of
make sure that i i'm not gonna freeze So what
made you finally pull the trigger and transitioning
out? And then how was your transition? Because
for, as we know, many people in uniform, especially
if your identity has been wrapped up solely in
law enforcement, it can be jarring for some of
our people when they retire. So what kind of
made you make that decision? And then what was
your initial few months like? So I retired because
Safari Land offered me a job. I mean, like literally
retired on the Thursday and went to work on Monday.
And it was just starting. And it was not that
I was even ready. Like I had a hard time accepting
that. It took me a couple of weeks to accept
the job because I love, I still love my job.
Like I think it was one of the best jobs in the
world. I was able to do it. I wasn't like out
of shape, but. what about in a few years when
I'm not able to do the job and now I'm stuck
on patrol and now I hate this or, you know what
I mean? Like, so, and I talked to a friend of
mine who went to, you know, played high school
football together. We went to the Academy together
and like, you know, he, he, his path went along
promotion and mine stayed right there on SWAT.
And he was an assistant chief and I'm talking
to him and he's like, he's like, Jared, what,
you know, how many doors have you kicked in?
You know what I mean? I was like thousands. And
he's like, when are you going to be tired of
that? And I was like, probably never. You know
what I mean? And he's like, so what's the difference
in doing it now and five years from now? Like,
it's going to be hard anytime you do it, but
you have a great opportunity to change your family's
life. Like, you know what I mean? It doubled
my salary. You know what I mean? And I looked
at it like that and just like, hey, man, I got
to go. You know what I mean? I got to go do this
for my family and do this. And I'm still in law
enforcement. You know, like I still get to hang
out with the fellows and, you know, show them
cool products and do stuff. So, I mean, I've
had a great transition. I mean, I love it. I
try to tell people that, hey, man, you're not
stuck there. There is life outside of this and
there are people who want to hire you and you'll
do a great job. The stress that is lifted from
our shoulders. in a even when you have a great
job i had a great job but there's always drama
involved in something like you know what i mean
and like now like out in the the civilian world
man i don't have it's just a it's relief it's
it's the big boy rules you think of and you do
and like you're able to work you're not micromanaged
you're there because of you know they expect
you to do a job and just do your job And you'll
do it. I've been promoted at Safari land and
just, I'm trying to crush every day. You know
what I mean? And not look back on it as, as being
bad. Cause there is life after retirement. See,
I agree with you completely. I never rose above
firefighter because that's what I dreamed of
doing when I was in the academy, not writing,
you know, staffing reports or, you know, standing
outside the engine with a microphone in my hand.
And, uh, But my career, my life took me to a
point where after the podcast was started, I
realized that, well, hey, I could be a force
multiplier for this profession. I could speak
for the people that can't speak because they're
still in. And so it took me out earlier than
I ever thought I would. But to your point, what
I've realized, especially as it's such a powerful
lens when you're standing on the outside looking
in again, is how many of our men and women are
crippled by the thought that. The only thing
they know is police. The only thing they know
is fire. And yes, some people go into security
from law enforcement. Some firefighters go and
teach at academies. But you work under high stress.
You work well with teams. You're a problem solver.
There's all these assets that can be applied
to so many areas. And, you know, the benefits
that used to be the carrot on the stick these
days are awful anyway. I mean, the health insurance
in most places is just dog shit. So realizing
that you can also, as you said, make a good living
and be home in your own bed with your family,
watch your kids grow up before it's too late.
So if people are still in the profession and
they've got X amount of years to go, fantastic.
And if it's their choice and they understand
everything that's available to them. But I think
there's a lot of people, good people even. That
stay way too long because of pensions, drop programs,
whatever it is, without realizing that you can,
you know, hang your your coat up at 5, 10, 15
years, be proud of your service and then transition
to something else is also going to make the world
a little bit better. Yeah, I mean, even with
like pensions and everything. I mean, we have
a drop program and it's great. And I think the
drop's great. If you don't ever plan on working
again, like maybe you did something prior to
law enforcement or fire. And like, when you are
done with this, you're kind of done working.
It's great. But man, as soon as you're able to,
I think you need to get out because you're going
to make that drop money, but they just, they
show a number to you and you're like, oh man,
I can't give that up. I was like, you're going
to make way more than that. If you go get a job.
You know what I mean? And don't think of it as
a retirement gig. Go get a career and go do your
second career and try as hard as you can at that.
And you're going to do great. Like it's, it's
hard to trust in yourself and believe in yourself
and bet on yourself. So it's easy to get people
stuck in that. They're there. Won't get out.
Like my best friend, man, he just got out last
week and I've been telling them for. ever just
man you got like just your personality everybody
loves you bro you know what i mean like you can
get out and do great and because there's so many
people who who people hate they're just idiots
you know what i mean and they're like you're
you know you you are an asset if you just bet
on yourself and go put yourself to something
and apply yourself and work hard you're gonna
it's gonna do well Well, I think two really under,
well, misunderstood or under understood, if that's
even a word, I don't think it is, areas that
are so detrimental to us is sleep deprivation
and all things physical and mental health and
then organizational stress or betrayal. How absolutely
crushing that can be. And what I found, the last
place I worked at was, you know, rife with that.
The moment I left, it was like a thousand pounds
came off my shoulders. And it wasn't I didn't
want to be a firefighter or a medic anymore.
It was I didn't have to bow down to people that
really were not qualified to do their job that
were higher up this invisible ladder that we
kind of are subservient to. And then you realize,
oh, I can just go and get shit done now. I can
go and fix things now without it taking six months
and massaging 12 egos to get. fucking fitness
program put in for example so yeah it's it is
it is it's a huge relief i mean i i don't everybody
i've talked to who's done it like and i'm still
like and they're just like man this was this
was great like i needed this like i don't i don't
want to i didn't want to retire and then have
to go to the courthouse and put a uniform on
and do something that i wasn't doing before like
go and find like but I'm not saying bad against
those people, but they've never really bet on
themselves. They've never really done anything
and put themselves out there. Their physicality
and shit is probably different, too. You know
what I mean? They're disciplined. They're willing
to take risks. Like, that's a big freaking deal.
Like, you know, you start looking at some of
these people who are super successful. They didn't
get there by not taking risks and not being disciplined
to sit in there. And when it's not going as great
as you want to stay in and keep going and keep
pushing forward when it hurts. I think that's
that's the secret to success. And I feel like,
you know, my law enforcement career was a great
law enforcement career, but I'm going to be more
successful as a businessman and being able to
support my family and doing what I'm doing now.
Well, expanding on that, talk to me about the
training that you offer and the spectrum of it.
So Reston Group's been around for 15 years now.
We teach firearms and tactics to law enforcement,
military and civilians, you know, armed civilians.
And that's really great. But I've taken that
and built. So then I've teamed up with Ridgeline
Defense before and we've met. We've been friends
for years. I had the opportunity to buy into
the company, so I bought into the company. We're
now manufacturing rifles. We have two training
facilities. We have all these things that are
happening, and it's great. It's just, you know,
take what you have, don't be happy with what
you got, and keep building. You know what I mean?
Take every opportunity you have to keep building.
And, you know, me and my wife bought a chocolate
store. Like we have a Peterbrook chocolatier
store, like, you know, that was one of her dreams
and we made it happen. And we're like, you know,
it's hard. It sucks. The chocolate business is
not that great. But we work and we are going
to keep pushing and it's going to it's going
to take off if we just keep helping or keep pushing,
keep doing what we're doing. And that's where
you've got to show your family and stuff, not
just being a law enforcement officer or, you
know. a slave to that paycheck but just get in
there and use those opportunities like i never
graduated from college my college was 20 years
of law enforcement that's how i'm able to even
get the jobs and the experiences and opportunities
that i have and i'm going to take full advantage
of that but it doesn't define who i am i'm not
a policeman only a policeman you know what i
mean it's what i did and i did some really really
cool things and i i love it and i loved it but
You know, there's things else to do. I want to
throw some closing questions at you quickly,
but this can have, you know, no response whatsoever
or, you know, go wherever you'd like to. But
yesterday, obviously, we saw, sadly, because
social media is in our face these days, the brutal
slaying of Charlie. Was it Kirk? Have I got that
right? As a paramedic, what I saw was an immediate
bleed that there's no way in hell someone's going
to survive from. So the fact that they said that
he was at the hospital, I figured that was probably
what we call a show code by that point. But I'm
obviously not a tactical person. But I did see
person in custody and then manhunt and then 200
-yard shot. So from your perspective, looking
at this video, you know. Are there any myths
that are apparent to you so far? Or what are
some of the takeaways with such a kind of veteran
lens that you have when it comes to this kind
of environment? The takeaways are when doing
large venues and things like that, it seems in
the past year that assassination is kind of on
the uptick and people are trying to do it. and
as a security side of that we need to understand
it and it's not just day -to -day pep rallies
and or whatever it is you know like if you have
a certain amount of people there you need to
have a certain amount of security there owning
the high ground is we're gonna have to take these
things seriously not and i don't know you know
how i know he had a small detail and he had the
college police But he, I mean, I'm not, he's
going to have to pay for a more security. If
you're out there doing these things, you need
to take your own personal security high up there.
And that's different teams and occupying buildings
and doing, you know, a better, you know, upfront
evaluation. And there's guys out there that do
this stuff like all the time. You know what I
mean? and they need to you know rather than putting
your life into the hands of a college police
force yeah yeah and it's gonna change i mean
it's good i mean it's got to change you know
full security packages are gonna have to start
going with these people yeah i mean it's so sad
but then if you contrast it to evergreen i mean
this is a school that's supposed to be safe that
someone walked into with a weapon so i mean This
sadly is the environment that we have in this
country at the moment, as we've kind of unpacked
the last couple of hours, is when you keep doing
the same thing, expecting different results,
this is what we get. We get these violent incidents
over and over and over again. And whether it's,
again, the combination of the mental health crisis
and all these other factors that come into it,
it shouldn't be a regular occurrence that...
politicians are killed or heads of you know healthcare
systems or schools full of children you know
if there are countries around the world that
don't deal with this on a daily weekly basis
and i and i feel like a lot of it is is definitely
mental illness and just self -aware i think of
the family structure like of understanding like
i used to hate like i had to go a couple would
call the police and say i need you to go take
my dad's guns and i'm like you need to take your
dad's guns if you think he's unsafe you i'm a
policeman i can't go you know what i mean like
take care of your family to do this well that's
going to break his heart or what i don't care
it's hard like i remember like talking with my
mom about taking my stepdad's driver's license
when he couldn't like he was he was a detriment
And she's like, well, I can't. I was like, you
have to do that. You man up, you put your big
girl panties on and you take his driver's license.
And that was one of the better things that we
could do. You have to, that as a family, we come
together and make the hard decisions and do things.
And when you see a mentally ill person doing
mentally ill stuff, call them out on it. Like,
you know, with some of these recent killings.
of like at the christian school like magazines
painted with all kind of racist crazy stuff on
it and painting on the guns and that is crazy
talk understand it is but nobody wants to call
a spade a spade anymore and they want to look
the other way because it's easier on them they
need to come up get them mental health problem
like you know get it and then we really need
to watch what these people say on like social
media and what their rhetoric is because It's
easy to convince a crazy person to do something.
If I give them a cause and they think that they're
going to be the great savior, they'll do crazy
stuff. You know what I mean? So watch our rhetoric
and watch. If you don't mean for it to happen,
you need to watch what you say because crazy
people will take that as a calling. I couldn't
agree more. And it's bizarre. I have my Instagram
shut down. about eight months ago now. And all
I usually post are clips from interviews like
this. And then usually, you know, kindness and
compassion, you know, whether it's our communities,
whether it's other people and it got shut down.
Now I've had, you know, doctors that were in
Gaza that came back and talked about what they
saw. I've got a funny feeling that might be the
reason, you know, they claim copyright, but that's
absolute bullshit. But then so much of this nastiness
and hate. is encouraged on social media because
that gets clicks so i think yeah this algorithm
that really whether it's deliberate or just based
purely on popularity that allows this hate and
this divisiveness to perpetuate they absolutely
are part of the reason for this they have blood
in their hands too yeah what i mean it's we're
all americans and if we were not at a rally or
not looking at social media we were at a bar
hanging out we would all get along 100 it's not
as bad as people try to say it is and it's not
and like i it like with racism in our country
and stuff i was like look there are still racist
dudes yeah if you pull up to a 75 year old man
a white guy in the south and yeah he's probably
racist you're never going to change him but you
know what his son and daughter is probably not
like it's got to fade away like you got to let
these people die And the racist, like racism
is going to die with that culture. Like, I don't
know. I've always, I've always played sports.
No, it doesn't matter who you are. I'll call
you my brother. We go to battle to get like,
you know, on a team on whatever we do. We're
not, you don't see racism in special operations.
You don't see racism in, in football, basketball,
whatever. You see a team, any kind of really
teams. like and then it blows my mind like you
know like nfl like end racism and all that i
was like y 'all have ended racism y 'all need
to sit there and be like model yourself after
us because we call each other brothers and we
make fun of each other and do things and we make
fun of the cultures that we come from but you
know we stand by each other and we love each
other like i got several people that i'd call
my brother you know i mean that that's the type
of shit that people take these little tiny things.
Like that's what I think is wrong with the internet.
I mean, what's good about the internet. It gives
everybody a voice. What's wrong with the internet.
It gives everybody a voice and they just, they
don't need it. And man, and they just, they take
those little minority things that just don't
even affect anything. It's a blip, but they're
going to make it something. And it's, it's wrong.
I had a guy on the show recently, Alan Shabarro,
who's a Green Beret. And we were talking and
he was saying about racism in America. And I
said, well, the way I look at it is, let's say
10 % on each side are the extreme. In a country
with 340 million people, that's 34 million lunatics
on each side that believe that Fox or CNN is
the gospel. And then you have the 80 % in the
middle. It might lean a little bit, but I call
them arguably normal people that can be pulled
and swayed. And then you have the steadfast ones
right in the middle. But yes, you have all these
voices that talk about racism or whatever the
thing is. But if you think about the 260 plus
million people in the middle, that's the voice
that we need to hear, but they don't get the
microphone. They listen to the fucking wing nuts
on either side rather than the majority in the
middle. So I would say it's 5 % on either side.
And most likely, yeah, I would agree with you.
When you're given 10%, like that's a lot. You
know what I mean? Yeah. Like I, the majority
aren't getting the voice and we're acting and
we put so much attention towards these others
on both sides. It's just, it's wild to me. Like,
cause most people don't care. Just leave them
alone. And you know what I mean? And just go
about and just be good human beings. Exactly.
I always say tongue in cheek. If only there was
a holy book that was written about being a good
person. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. All right. Well,
the first of the closing questions, is there
a book or are there books that you love to recommend?
It can be related to our discussion today or
completely unrelated. I don't think any book
that you need to read, like, I've read, like,
the On Killing and, like, you know, the Grossman
books. They're super hard to read. But, you know,
they're great for doing things. But, I mean,
I don't think you need it. I'm trying to think
of the basketball coach wrote a book, and it
has to do with, like, training and purpose. like
purposeful training which i think is really good
but i mean that's more sports stuff i don't think
there's one but just just read and look at the
things out there and find things that maybe aren't
in your specific job title but you know and just
read some there's a lot of great information
out there and you can relate it to your stuff
what about films and documentaries I mean, nothing
life -changing. You know what I mean? I don't
know. I watch movies. I watch documentaries.
But I don't think if you don't watch it, you're
different. I would say 80s movies because these
kids today haven't seen really cool movies like
the original Red Dawn and cool action movies
like Robocop and Predator and things like that.
But that's just cool, fun movies. Absolutely.
All right. Well, the next question, is there
a person that you recommend to come on this podcast
as a guest to speak to the first responders,
military and associated professions of the world?
Alex Hartman. Tell me about him. So Alex is the
CEO of Ridgeline Defense, and he is a Marine
sniper that really is just taking the bull by
the horns. It's just a really smart guy and has
taken his military career and pushed it way past
anything ever would have expected out of him.
When he's designing weapons, this is always intriguing.
Obviously, the nuts and bolts of a lot of these
weapon systems have already been innovated years
and years prior. What are some of the areas that
Ridgeline is changing to try and create this
next generation? So the great thing that we saw
with us is through our experiences and training
people, you can see the overarching problems
that most AR -15s have, right? So we just set
out and tried to fix these problems. And with
that, we didn't really come out with anything
great. We took everything great that we'd like
on a broad span of weapons and put them all into
one package. And it's just like right now with
our LPRs, we have the most accurate AR -15 light
precision rifle on the market hands down. Like
it's crushing the competition world. Law enforcement
agencies are using them all over now for, you
know, for Overwatch and things like that because
it is a great weapon system. We've now pushed
that over into... like the blaster side of things
like the chrome line barrels and and doing that
by taking different rails and our rails and doing
different things and man we make a quality working
man's firearm everybody who works at ridgeline
we've all carried a gun through a door with bad
people with guns on the other side of that door
like so we're guys making guns for guys and we
know how much how important it is Everybody who
works there knows how important it is that that
screws tight to the right type because it might
matter. Do you have a version of the MP5, that
kind of weapon? No. Okay. Not yet. We just started
with the precision rifle and the AR -15. Then
we'll move to the bigger bore guns. Okay, because
that's one thing I've been listening to people
from all walks of life talking about home defense.
One of the ones that made sense to me that'll
be the next one I buy probably was some sort
of 9mm, you know, pseudo rifle. I don't even
know what the correct term would be. But hearing,
you know, people saying, well, if you've got
two... too powerful of a weapon in a home defense
situation that you could yes you might kill the
bad guy and then three neighbors down the street
as well so uh that seemed like that's why you
don't want a sub gun then because your nine millimeter
bullet's going to go through way more walls than
a 556 will well educate me then because this
is i'm a noob as they say yeah just because it's
fast doesn't mean fast and small means it breaks
up early so it doesn't over penetrate so it does
work on a body, but I would not recommend it.
I recommend five, five, six for home defense
for that reason. And that's why several SWAT
teams carry five, five, six guns because they're
not over penetrating. Brilliant. That would be
the frangible round for that. No, you can use
anything. You can use 62 grain bonded any, any
it's because it's going so fast. It breaks up
quicker. So like, if you wanted like a home defense,
like i use we use sub guns and like nine millimeters
on like car glass and things like that because
it will punch through the glass better it does
punch through barricades better so i mean i would
go five five six for home defense okay good to
know thank you all right well then the last question
before we make sure everyone knows where to find
you and all the companies we've discussed today
what do you do to decompress I don't, I don't,
I don't have any hobbies. I don't do, I shoot
guns and, you know what I mean? I, I, I do my
work stuff. I don't do anything because that's
fun to me. Like, I don't know, like that's, that's
decompressing for me. I like to go watch my son
play football. Like that's my, you know, or all
my boys go play. You know what I mean? That was,
but I mean, bro, I don't. I go hard. I try to
stay hard until I can't. All right. For people
listening, where can they find Ridgeland, the
Reston Training Group, and some of the other
places you've mentioned today? So, restongrouptraining
.com is online or on any of the social medias.
Ridgelinedefense .com is online or any of the
Ridgelinedefense social medias of Gas Gun, Fast
Gun. on instagram is one of ours for the lpr
and then for safariland safariland .com and that
we manufacture everything that you need for law
enforcement and military so and what about except
for guns what about social media for yourself
specifically uh wrestling group just under wrestling
group uh for on instagram it's resting underscore
group and you gotta type that in exactly Because
I'm shadow banned. Yeah, my old one doesn't work
either. So I'm 2 .0 now. All right. Well, Jared,
I want to thank you so much. It's been such an
amazing conversation. Obviously, you know, your
line of duty, injury, wounding, you know, it
was a very powerful chapter of your life. But
getting your perspective on so many things that
we've discussed today has been invaluable. So
I want to thank you so much for being so generous
with your time and coming on the Behind the Shield
podcast today. Thank you for having me, guys.