WEBVTT

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Welcome guys to episode 106 of Behind the Shield

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podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing.

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And this week I bring to you a man who was recommended

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by one of my past guests, Peter Park. And I've

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also enjoyed his podcast, which is called Finding

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Mastery. And my guest is Dr. Michael Gervais.

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Now, Dr. Gervais is a renowned sports psychologist.

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He's worked with many, many of the world's top

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athletes. And I was fortunate enough to pick

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his brains and see how it pertains to the first

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responders, the soldiers of the world. So we

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delved into many topics. We talked about the

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psychology of fear, flow state, how that tribal

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teamwork affects the outcome in the sports world,

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and obviously how we can apply it to the first

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responder community, and just an array of other

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topics that really, really tested me and made

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me look at the way I think in my own self -talk.

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And I definitely walked away from this realizing

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that I've been doing some destructive thinking

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myself. And it really kind of renewed the way

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I look at the internal monologue. So I really,

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really enjoyed this. So as I always say, please

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go to the iTunes, rate the show, share the show.

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That's the biggest thing. Just share. Help this

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project. Get to everyone that needs to hear it

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and just share and share and share. Find an episode

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that you love and send it to everyone you know.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Dr.

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Michael Gervais. Enjoy. So, Dr. Gervais, thank

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you so much for coming on to the Behind the Shield

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podcast. The opening question I always have is

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where are we finding you today? Oh, first of

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all, thank you for having me. I'm honored to

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be part of your community. And I'm currently

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in Hermosa Beach in my office and in Southern

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California. Okay, and were you born there or

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somewhere else? No, I was actually born in a

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small town in Virginia. And I spent the first

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handful of years there. And then my family moved

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west in, I think it was fourth grade. And then

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fourth grade onward, I've lived in California.

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Okay, brilliant. Now, I always delve into this

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a little bit if it's okay. What was your family

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unit like? What did your mom and dad do? And

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how many siblings did you have? So mom and dad,

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so I have one sister. That's the easiest place

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to start. Mom and dad. Mom stayed and ran the

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family and dad early on pretty much worked for

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corporate America and worked his way through

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that ecosystem. But then also had very early

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days, had a strong commitment around the house

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because we moved into the country and there was

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no streetlights. I mean, we were out in the boonies.

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There was a commitment around making sure the

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family system was right, but he also had a corporate

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job at the same time. Right. Now, was that in

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California in the boonies or in Virginia? That

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was in Virginia. Yeah. So that's where I feel

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like I got some roots in Virginia. Like, I mean,

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it was literally just way out in the middle of

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nowhere. It's a small town called Warrington,

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which is built up quite a bit now. But when we

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were there 40 some years ago, it was tiny. Then

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in California, you know, he was becoming more

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successful in the corporate world. And so I organically

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saw that happen. Right. Okay. Well, I want to

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ask a question because I had Sebastian Junger

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on twice now. And one of the things he writes

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about is the tribal mentality. And I love delving

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into that. And so I myself, I grew up on a farm

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in a somewhat small town as well. Did you find

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that you had that tribal? I don't know what the

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right word would be, that tribal element going

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on in Virginia. And did you find that you lost

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it when you went to suburban America in California?

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What we had in Virginia was a family unit with

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some sparse neighbors. And so, no, I didn't have

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a travel thing there. It was a family unit first,

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but we're a small family of four. And then my

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grandparents were not far down the road, so there's

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a little bit of extended family there. So no,

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not a tribal thing. And then I didn't have a

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tribal thing in early days growing up in California.

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And I think the first tribe I was ever part of

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was my community of friends in high school when

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we were... And our mutual interests were around

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surfing and getting better and progression. And

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so that was the first kind of tribal experience.

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And I loved it. I loved being part of it. You

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know, a community where people know each other,

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support each other, challenging each other, ripping

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each other. You know, like I just love that.

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And I just naturally kind of crave that community.

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And so it's not something I had early days, but

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high school, relatively early days, I guess you'd

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say. Okay, well, as a psychologist yourself,

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is that something that you've had any observations

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on as far as society in general? What do you

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mean? With regards to a tribal element being

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a positive experience in some areas of our sociology,

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I guess you could say, missing that, especially

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with electronics and maybe that being one of

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the underlying issues that we have. You know,

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it's a good question because... We are social

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by nature and social media is not necessarily

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helping that but we are social beings and I'm

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in an airport more than I'd like to be and walking

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through the airport You can see what's happening

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because a thin slice of the way that we're engaging

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we hurry up to get somewhere to sit down to look

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to see what other people are doing and Our postures

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stoop the whole thing, you know, people are really

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in this Funky little space instead of reading

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magazines or reading newspapers. We're reading

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and looking at images But then there's another

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layer that takes place is that like let's say

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that a couple is sitting next to each other They're

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flipping through their phone looking at social

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media and then but then they'll say hey look

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at this Look at this and it's a funny little

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something or a check out what Johnny's doing

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So there is a social engagement that is binding

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people that are already intimate relationships

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And then there's this fringe thing that's happening

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where we're connected to people we haven't seen

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for a long time or might not even begin to know.

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So there's this fringe social engagement that's

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taking place. There's an intimate connection

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as a talk track that's happening around social

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engagement. But I'm not sure it's ever going

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to replace eye contact. It's never going to replace

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the neurochemistry exchange when somebody talks

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about something intimate or scary or difficult.

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And so I'm not mad about social media in any

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ways. We are social beings. But at the same time,

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I think there's a balance that we need to look

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for between checking in what others are doing

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and checking in what ourselves are doing and

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checking in with our intimate loved. And so the

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tribal piece for me is like a deep, a much deeper

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commitment than a social gathering. You know,

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it's not like this, just the social gathering

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is cool. It's fun. It's whatever a group of people

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get together for. An experience, but then there's

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a team and a team is like, okay, we're gonna

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work together We're gonna try to figure something

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out and layer deepers tribe where it's like we're

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in it, you know And that's very much a family

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feel and that that is rare, you know, that is

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a really rare thing, right? Well, I mean obviously

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you've worked with many many uh just successful

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people in general but you have worked with a

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lot of teams um can you think of any specific

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uh examples of where that tribal element was

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missing and therefore they weren't successful

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versus one where due to that tribal element they

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were very successful well countless you know

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and before i got to the women's national team

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in volleyball the u .s women's national team

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they were a high performing team kicking ass

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top you know top ranked in the in the world ended

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up taking a silver in the olympics so that's

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not bad however they lacked a community they

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were performance razor edged and about their

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communication their relationships and the way

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they fit together so the tribe was dangerous

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to each other if you will and then um So they

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wanted to do some purposeful work around it.

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So I was fortunate enough to spend time with

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them in the last quad, not the current quad,

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but the last quad heading into Rio. And they

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got the tribe right. They got the community right.

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And they really knew each other, supported each

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other, challenged each other, were on the journey

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together, and did great. But they didn't get

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the outcome that we had hoped for. Everyone's

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vying for better than silver, for gold, if you

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will. And we ended up getting a bronze. Now,

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I'll say that the community was really strong

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and the experience was worthwhile. And when I

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asked some of the gals about their experience

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in the previous quad versus this quad. So when

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they got a silver and it was hard, there was

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no real meaningfulness in relationships. And

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then getting a bronze, but felt connected. And

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most of them, if not. I think there's just one

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that said otherwise, contrary to the statement.

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They said, oh, yeah, this is way better. The

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four years was great. Yeah, you know, I think

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we underperformed a little bit. But damn, like

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the four years was awesome. And I've got lifelong

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friends. And, you know, like I learned so much

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about myself and how I work and others work in

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closely organizations. And I'm going to use this

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stuff in business later. So and family raising,

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you know, later. So, you know, that's got a little

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bit of both in there. And I don't think it's

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ever as clean as if you have a tight tribal community

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that you're going to win a lot. I think that

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you give yourself a better chance to maximize

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the output, but it doesn't mean that the output's

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going to necessarily yield in results. So I hope

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that's not too complicated. Not at all. Yeah,

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yeah, yeah. So that's a pretty simple thought,

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I think. Brilliant. Because the reason I ask,

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and I'm... so involved in this particular concept

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is in a firehouse, obviously in a military unit

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as well, that tribal element is very important.

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If we're a cohesive unit, then we're going to

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effectively rescue or save whatever individual

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we've gone into to help. But if there is a breakdown

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in the tribal element, just within the firehouse

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itself, whether it's cleaning or cooking, or

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people not talking to each other because they're

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on their phones or separate bedrooms. I see,

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just in my own eyes, a direct result when it

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comes to the fire ground operations. So I think

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there's a yearning in my profession to bring

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that tribal element back, that brotherhood that

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we talk about. So it's always interesting to

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go to the sports world and see that cause and

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effect of that cohesive team and then the success,

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like you said, whether it's actually the medal

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they're looking for or just playing very well

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together and having a positive experience. Well,

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you know, okay. So James, I, you know, it's funny

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because you're looking to the sport team and

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I don't think you're going to find it. You know,

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I think what you guys have is way, what do I

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want to say? It's, um, you're grounded in something

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that is deeper. And so saving lives is far deeper

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than winning trophies. And so I'm not sure you're

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going to find it in the sport world. We work

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our ass off to get to team. to go from group

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to team. And to get from team to tribe is rare.

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It's a rare space. And to do that, I think there's

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some extraordinary things that need to happen.

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One, the environment needs to be situated properly

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where people can really get to know each other.

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And it's not just about performance -driven outcomes.

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That is where I've learned so much from Coach

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Carroll of the Seattle Seahawks, is the environment

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that he creates that is relationship -based.

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That sets the stage for tribe. But we need to

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have shared experiences that are hard and feel

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like it's as authentic as war, which it never

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will be. Never will be. It will never be as real

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as saving a human's life that you experience

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on a regular basis. So our regard, my regard

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for sure, is for you guys that the pedestal's

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very high for you guys. I'm not sure sport will

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get you there. Sport will get you on some practices

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that will help coalesce people, to get people

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to think in similar ways. But I'm not sure that

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it can ever replace what you guys naturally have.

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So I think you're better situated than we are,

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if that is a long way to say that short little

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phrase. Yeah, no, that's great. It's interesting

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to hear that perspective with the mirror face

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the other way around. Well, I want to delve into

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that a little bit. So you spoke very positively

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of your experience with surfing. So does that

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tie into when you first became aware of the power

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of the mind in the sport performance world? Oh,

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yeah. So I was a young kid and super green, really

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just wanted to get better. And I had this natural

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inclination to get better, to put the work in,

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to be out in the ocean. to take as many risks

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as I can, get myself scared every day, and working

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actively to get fearful and fatigued. Those are

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the two things I was looking for. But then as

00:14:04.610 --> 00:14:07.710
soon as the lights turned on and the judges were

00:14:07.710 --> 00:14:11.110
there and family members were showing up and

00:14:11.110 --> 00:14:13.269
there was judging and there's quote -unquote

00:14:13.269 --> 00:14:15.129
pressure, which is just a ridiculous thought

00:14:15.129 --> 00:14:19.669
as an adult now to me, that I just was a shell

00:14:19.669 --> 00:14:22.419
of myself. I didn't think right. I couldn't feel

00:14:22.419 --> 00:14:25.340
my body right. I was so tense and nervous that

00:14:25.340 --> 00:14:27.539
I couldn't do what I normally could do on a regular

00:14:27.539 --> 00:14:30.080
basis. And that's when I first felt that pain,

00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:33.120
that uncomfortableness led to a pain. And I said,

00:14:33.139 --> 00:14:35.700
what is going on? It's not my surfing ability.

00:14:36.100 --> 00:14:39.659
It's the way that I think about myself. And that's

00:14:39.659 --> 00:14:41.840
when it started to snap into place. Like, hey,

00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:44.299
how do I get better at this thing? Because I'm

00:14:44.299 --> 00:14:47.139
an anxious mess right now. Like, it was awful.

00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:48.799
And I think, Greg, you've probably been there,

00:14:48.860 --> 00:14:51.470
too. I don't know. I would imagine that, you

00:14:51.470 --> 00:14:55.570
know, James, you felt that. And, you know, I

00:14:55.570 --> 00:14:57.970
don't know. That's where it started for me. Okay.

00:14:58.210 --> 00:15:01.210
So you're in that mess point because I can absolutely

00:15:01.210 --> 00:15:03.350
agree with that. And it's funny, I just had a

00:15:03.350 --> 00:15:04.990
conversation with a fellow fireman the other

00:15:04.990 --> 00:15:09.230
day. And what we see now is a fusion of the stresses

00:15:09.230 --> 00:15:12.809
and the fears and the exhaustion emotionally

00:15:12.809 --> 00:15:14.590
and physically that some of these men and women

00:15:14.590 --> 00:15:17.919
have. starting to intermingle with that anxiety.

00:15:18.139 --> 00:15:21.740
And then that creates a fear of doing tasks before

00:15:21.740 --> 00:15:24.299
they would have been okay doing. So I really

00:15:24.299 --> 00:15:26.220
want to delve into that as we go along. But so

00:15:26.220 --> 00:15:30.340
what was it that you started changing to minimize

00:15:30.340 --> 00:15:32.519
that performance anxiety that you were having?

00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:34.980
Well, at the time, I didn't know what to do.

00:15:35.019 --> 00:15:36.960
So I just had the awareness that, oh, there's

00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:39.840
something here. And looking back, it's led me

00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:41.399
to this thought that there's only three things

00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:44.179
as humans we can train, maybe four. But for right

00:15:44.179 --> 00:15:45.919
now, from a science standpoint, I'm going to

00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:49.220
say three. You can train your craft, you can

00:15:49.220 --> 00:15:51.379
train your body, and you can train your mind.

00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:55.700
That's it. So no longer are the best in the world

00:15:55.700 --> 00:15:58.899
leaving the mindset piece or the mental skills

00:15:58.899 --> 00:16:01.580
piece up to chance. And so they're investing

00:16:01.580 --> 00:16:03.779
in very sophisticated ways to train their mind.

00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:06.559
But at that point, 30 -some years ago, I had

00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:10.940
no clue where to go. I don't think really anyone.

00:16:11.750 --> 00:16:14.230
Strike that. It's not that there wasn't anyone.

00:16:14.470 --> 00:16:18.350
It was just the beginning of an industry thinking

00:16:18.350 --> 00:16:21.570
about the science of how the extraordinary mind

00:16:21.570 --> 00:16:24.509
works. So for the histories of psychology, it

00:16:24.509 --> 00:16:29.370
was about how the broken mind works. And so I

00:16:29.370 --> 00:16:31.070
didn't know. And so I just started studying the

00:16:31.070 --> 00:16:33.450
mind. And the only thing that was really available

00:16:33.450 --> 00:16:38.389
to me was some fringe kind of tapes from... pop

00:16:38.389 --> 00:16:41.490
psychology -esque type folks that were talking

00:16:41.490 --> 00:16:44.870
about motivation. I'll leave the names out because

00:16:44.870 --> 00:16:47.250
it wasn't grounded in good enough science to

00:16:47.250 --> 00:16:50.769
warrant what they were talking about. And then

00:16:50.769 --> 00:16:53.990
the dysfunctional mind, like how schizophrenia

00:16:53.990 --> 00:16:59.409
or bipolar or depression or anxiety. But it wasn't

00:16:59.409 --> 00:17:02.809
until about 40 years ago where the emergence

00:17:02.809 --> 00:17:06.549
of science became... interesting to scientists.

00:17:06.789 --> 00:17:09.210
And it wasn't until like the last 20 years that

00:17:09.210 --> 00:17:12.029
it became pop awareness where it was pop culture

00:17:12.029 --> 00:17:13.569
to it. Like how did the best and the best of

00:17:13.569 --> 00:17:17.569
the best train their minds? And so the easy answer

00:17:17.569 --> 00:17:20.329
for your thoughtful question was, I didn't know.

00:17:20.430 --> 00:17:21.809
I just thought that there was something there

00:17:21.809 --> 00:17:24.210
I should train. And I just started learning about

00:17:24.210 --> 00:17:26.690
the mind, but it was mostly about the dysfunctional

00:17:26.690 --> 00:17:32.109
mind. And eventually I found the graduate school

00:17:32.109 --> 00:17:35.900
track about sports psychology and how elite athletes,

00:17:36.099 --> 00:17:38.359
the science of how elite athletes condition their

00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:41.319
mind. But that wasn't until another 15 years

00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:43.299
later. So what were you doing career -wise at

00:17:43.299 --> 00:17:47.240
that point? Well, I barely got out of high school.

00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:50.279
High school was not a good fit for me. I didn't

00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:53.759
learn right. Let me say it better. I wasn't interested

00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:56.599
in learning the things that were offering in

00:17:56.599 --> 00:18:00.599
formal education. And so I was not a good high

00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:02.680
school student. So I barely got out of high school.

00:18:03.259 --> 00:18:05.900
And I didn't have the grades, nor did I take

00:18:05.900 --> 00:18:08.880
an SAT or a PSAT. I went surfing on both of them.

00:18:08.940 --> 00:18:12.059
So there's no way I could get into college. My

00:18:12.059 --> 00:18:15.319
parents gave me this ultimatum that either I

00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:20.000
get a job and move out or I go to community college.

00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:22.180
So I knew I could go to school and keep surfing,

00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:25.140
so I went to community college. It was a little

00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:27.220
private school called Marymount College that

00:18:27.220 --> 00:18:30.019
was a two -year program. And it was just like,

00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:32.569
I don't know. three golf ball pitches away from

00:18:32.569 --> 00:18:35.789
a really good surf break. So that's where I went.

00:18:36.109 --> 00:18:38.650
But what ended up happening is that I fell in

00:18:38.650 --> 00:18:40.990
love, literally fell in love with, you know,

00:18:40.990 --> 00:18:44.349
the invisible and philosophy became interesting.

00:18:46.230 --> 00:18:48.250
Theology became really interesting, the science

00:18:48.250 --> 00:18:50.890
of like spiritual practices. And then psychology

00:18:50.890 --> 00:18:52.990
was like a little bit more concrete than both

00:18:52.990 --> 00:18:55.829
of them. And so I love all three of those and

00:18:55.829 --> 00:18:58.289
how they work. And so I started really becoming

00:18:58.289 --> 00:19:00.490
interested in the science of psychology. So that's

00:19:00.490 --> 00:19:03.890
how it happened for me. And then once I caught

00:19:03.890 --> 00:19:06.150
wind of it, no one ever had to ask me to read

00:19:06.150 --> 00:19:08.390
another book again in psychology. Like I was

00:19:08.390 --> 00:19:10.150
reading as much as I could get my hands on. And

00:19:10.150 --> 00:19:12.410
I'm not a reader. That's not, you know, that's

00:19:12.410 --> 00:19:16.410
not how I was born. But I was like, oh, I don't

00:19:16.410 --> 00:19:17.970
know if I was born that way. It's a little bit

00:19:17.970 --> 00:19:19.910
too much. But that's not who I was at that time.

00:19:20.470 --> 00:19:22.750
But I did like to learn and I wanted to figure

00:19:22.750 --> 00:19:24.910
things out. And I was interested in improvement.

00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:27.880
And so, I mean, that's a long story to get to

00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:32.279
it. Yeah. It's funny you use that example because

00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:35.019
I was the same way. I didn't struggle in school,

00:19:35.140 --> 00:19:37.759
but I did not enjoy school at all. And I was

00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:40.599
a straight, you know, C student at best. But

00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:42.220
then when I went through fire school and paramedic

00:19:42.220 --> 00:19:44.339
school, I was a straight A student. And it's,

00:19:44.339 --> 00:19:45.920
again, that underlying thing that I know you

00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:47.640
talk a lot about, which is understanding your

00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:50.759
why, that burning desire inside you of what you're

00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:53.359
really meant to do on this earth. Yeah, that's

00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:56.359
exactly it. And you know what? That's hard. That's

00:19:56.359 --> 00:19:58.619
a difficult thing to wrestle with. I was talking

00:19:58.619 --> 00:20:02.720
with Bob Hurley yesterday and Bob Hurley is the

00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:07.140
founder of Hurley Clothing. And like, I mean,

00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:10.599
it's a Billabong, Quicksilver, Hurley, Volcom.

00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:12.779
Those are some of the big brands in surfing.

00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:15.099
And I was fortunate enough to sit down with Bob

00:20:15.099 --> 00:20:17.259
Hurley and he says, every day I think about my

00:20:17.259 --> 00:20:22.359
purpose. So somebody who's made a global. impact

00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:24.940
on the surf industry and the clothing company

00:20:24.940 --> 00:20:27.680
is still thinking about purpose. I've just found

00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:30.559
that so remarkable. And so it's a hard question

00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:33.039
to think about. What am I doing here? What is

00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:35.700
my purpose? And there's no shortcut to that.

00:20:35.859 --> 00:20:39.339
And it really does. Clarity of that comes from

00:20:39.339 --> 00:20:42.279
asking that question a lot, writing it down,

00:20:42.380 --> 00:20:45.619
talking about it with wise people and seeing

00:20:45.619 --> 00:20:48.480
how it snaps together with what you are actually

00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:51.200
competent at doing. You know, because if your

00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:53.799
purpose is if you think your purpose is to make

00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:58.000
guitars, but you've got a bunch of thumbs and

00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:00.759
you can't hold a screwdriver very well and your

00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:03.460
artistic eye and your ear is out of whack, you

00:21:03.460 --> 00:21:04.980
know, are all compromised, then it's going to

00:21:04.980 --> 00:21:08.220
be hard to make things that are going to purposefully

00:21:08.220 --> 00:21:10.640
change the world. You know, so there's got to

00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:12.279
be some sort of competency. There's got to be

00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:14.880
some sort of relationship piece to it. And then

00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:18.880
the ability to have the autonomy to choose the

00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:21.180
way that you think. the way that you organize

00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:25.140
your actions, and those three things, competency,

00:21:25.259 --> 00:21:28.099
autonomy, and relatedness, are all drivers for

00:21:28.099 --> 00:21:31.799
deep motivation. And that's the work of DC and

00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:35.900
Ryan, DCI is the last name, DC and Ryan, and

00:21:35.900 --> 00:21:39.460
their work on motivation. Brilliant. Well, that's

00:21:39.460 --> 00:21:41.559
an interesting point that you bring up as well,

00:21:41.619 --> 00:21:44.480
because what we see in the fire service, you

00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:47.240
have your absolute go -getters that are... 25

00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:50.099
years in and still just enamored with the job

00:21:50.099 --> 00:21:53.000
and training every day but you get a very large

00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:54.859
portion in the middle you get the bottom portion

00:21:54.859 --> 00:21:56.180
that probably should never have been in the job

00:21:56.180 --> 00:21:57.799
in the first place and i'll just say that now

00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:01.119
but um there's a middle portion that are are

00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:03.619
swayed depending on their environment if they're

00:22:03.619 --> 00:22:05.200
around a bunch of go -getters they'll probably

00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:09.559
be more fired up but there are some some um some

00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:14.059
factors physiologically that definitely um are

00:22:14.059 --> 00:22:15.940
challenges to motivation as well and we'll get

00:22:15.940 --> 00:22:19.359
into that in a little bit but when when you have

00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:21.000
an individual i know you don't just work with

00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:24.000
sports athletes you work with a whole array of

00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:27.539
people how do you nurture maintaining that motivation

00:22:27.539 --> 00:22:30.440
that people initially had and they truly were

00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:33.160
doing their burning desire their passion but

00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:35.180
10 years later you know whether it's a business

00:22:35.180 --> 00:22:36.759
that's beating them down whether it's like my

00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:38.359
profession with the seat deprivation and the

00:22:38.359 --> 00:22:40.619
cause that you know maybe we shouldn't be running

00:22:40.619 --> 00:22:43.980
that kind of thing how do you Keep that inspiration

00:22:43.980 --> 00:22:46.460
internally yourself without relying on other

00:22:46.460 --> 00:22:50.960
people to to carry you through that career It's

00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:53.720
the right question James. That's a right question

00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:58.799
because external conditions are important and

00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:02.960
being around people that are vibrant and are

00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:07.559
switched on and Are hungry is I mean it's worth

00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:10.220
its weight in platinum for sure that being said

00:23:10.220 --> 00:23:15.220
it's not enough And it does need to come from

00:23:15.220 --> 00:23:17.900
within. And my experience is like, what does

00:23:17.900 --> 00:23:20.519
that mean? That's why I go back to the, to DC

00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:23.140
and Ryan's approach called the self -determination

00:23:23.140 --> 00:23:26.480
theory is, you know, are you working on master

00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:31.380
competency, right? Do you, are you really feeling

00:23:31.380 --> 00:23:34.460
authentically yourself? Do you have the autonomy

00:23:34.460 --> 00:23:36.680
that, because when people don't feel autonomous,

00:23:36.819 --> 00:23:40.059
they get bitter. When they feel like they're

00:23:40.059 --> 00:23:42.579
doing things that they should be doing for approval

00:23:42.579 --> 00:23:44.819
or doing things that others think they should

00:23:44.819 --> 00:23:47.559
be doing for the job, people get bitter and they

00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:49.200
get pissed and they get anxious and they get

00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:53.059
a bit overwhelmed about things. And if we don't

00:23:53.059 --> 00:23:54.599
have good relationships that are stimulating

00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:58.980
and are lined up to help us get better, it becomes

00:23:58.980 --> 00:24:01.099
really challenging to have that inner drive,

00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:06.970
that inner fire, if you will, stay flamed. I

00:24:06.970 --> 00:24:09.190
take a look at deep dive at those three. And

00:24:09.190 --> 00:24:12.109
then I take a look at fear and fatigue. And if

00:24:12.109 --> 00:24:18.710
I'm not recovering properly, it's, it's, it's

00:24:18.710 --> 00:24:21.509
nearly impossible to stay the course. So fear

00:24:21.509 --> 00:24:24.349
and fatigue are big deals and, you know, managing

00:24:24.349 --> 00:24:28.650
those. So like really, you know, taking care

00:24:28.650 --> 00:24:31.730
of the system and the fear thing is also critical.

00:24:31.890 --> 00:24:34.930
So the fear piece is making sure that we are

00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:38.720
thinking properly about this moment and making

00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:40.779
sure that we're connected to this moment on a

00:24:40.779 --> 00:24:42.359
regular basis rather than worrying about all

00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:44.460
the things that could go wrong. So those are

00:24:44.460 --> 00:24:46.819
the two things, or the five, I guess, if you

00:24:46.819 --> 00:24:51.160
will, that I think about a lot. The recovery,

00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:54.500
the sleep is so important. I know that you just

00:24:54.500 --> 00:24:57.259
did a blog recently about that. But it's something

00:24:57.259 --> 00:25:00.400
that the first responders of the world, every

00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:03.140
third day or whatever, if they're a PD, they're

00:25:03.140 --> 00:25:06.210
on these rotating shifts. In their career, they're

00:25:06.210 --> 00:25:10.009
literally missing years of sleep over a 25, 30

00:25:10.009 --> 00:25:13.230
year career. And so this recovery is absolutely

00:25:13.230 --> 00:25:15.710
contributing to the mental ill health, the physical

00:25:15.710 --> 00:25:19.750
ill health. And so I kind of want to just, without

00:25:19.750 --> 00:25:22.990
loading the question, for your athletes, for

00:25:22.990 --> 00:25:25.210
your business people, for all your other clients,

00:25:25.390 --> 00:25:28.990
if you wouldn't mind, just explain to me. in

00:25:28.990 --> 00:25:32.190
your opinion uh the the value of the sleep and

00:25:32.190 --> 00:25:35.109
um you know the the detriments of of missing

00:25:35.109 --> 00:25:41.049
that sleep great topic and i think people will

00:25:41.049 --> 00:25:42.829
be surprised we pull back the curtain on elite

00:25:42.829 --> 00:25:46.849
athletics and elite sport and you know really

00:25:46.849 --> 00:25:49.230
show you how we think and what we talk about

00:25:49.230 --> 00:25:51.069
i think you'd be surprised about how much we

00:25:51.069 --> 00:25:53.650
actually talk about recovery and the science

00:25:53.650 --> 00:25:57.410
and art of recovery is square one Because if

00:25:57.410 --> 00:26:00.769
bodies break down, minds follow quickly. And

00:26:00.769 --> 00:26:03.450
vice versa as well. If minds break down because

00:26:03.450 --> 00:26:07.369
of monotony and the strain is so high that people

00:26:07.369 --> 00:26:10.289
don't recover in a thinking strategy, the bodies

00:26:10.289 --> 00:26:14.529
break down. So everyone on the world stage pushes

00:26:14.529 --> 00:26:17.829
hard. That's not a question. Everyone's working

00:26:17.829 --> 00:26:19.369
hard. So it's not a question of work harder.

00:26:19.509 --> 00:26:22.250
That feels stupid to talk about we need to work

00:26:22.250 --> 00:26:25.369
harder. Yes, everybody works hard. So the intelligent,

00:26:25.470 --> 00:26:28.569
competitive, advanced organizations are talking

00:26:28.569 --> 00:26:31.329
about intelligent recovery. So we want to get

00:26:31.329 --> 00:26:33.210
for every unit of strain, we want to have an

00:26:33.210 --> 00:26:36.289
equal unit of recovery. It's that simple. Now,

00:26:36.309 --> 00:26:39.029
what's a unit of strain and what's a unit of

00:26:39.029 --> 00:26:40.930
recovery? That's where the art is. That's where

00:26:40.930 --> 00:26:43.690
the science and art meet together. But for some

00:26:43.690 --> 00:26:47.490
basic things like, you know, okay, so there's

00:26:47.490 --> 00:26:52.089
five basic primary recovery strategies. First

00:26:52.089 --> 00:26:54.230
is sleep right. That's the biggest one now. If

00:26:54.230 --> 00:26:56.930
you don't sleep right, your brain does something

00:26:56.930 --> 00:27:01.349
very funny. It says, ooh, okay, we're not consolidating

00:27:01.349 --> 00:27:05.089
properly. We're not recovering properly. So if

00:27:05.089 --> 00:27:07.430
we're going to have to put a big output out,

00:27:07.890 --> 00:27:10.609
you know what we're going to do? We're just going

00:27:10.609 --> 00:27:15.170
to lower the level of normal functioning. And

00:27:15.170 --> 00:27:17.509
so our brain does a very sneaky, slippery thing.

00:27:18.029 --> 00:27:20.390
is that it creates a new normal, but that new

00:27:20.390 --> 00:27:23.529
normal is suboptimal. And it's a strategy to

00:27:23.529 --> 00:27:25.549
conserve energy so we don't blow ourselves up.

00:27:25.970 --> 00:27:29.529
And so we become better at maybe moderate ways

00:27:29.529 --> 00:27:34.190
of living, but we don't provide enough to have

00:27:34.190 --> 00:27:37.329
optimal ways of living. And so sleep is the big

00:27:37.329 --> 00:27:39.289
banger. You got to get it in. If you can't get

00:27:39.289 --> 00:27:41.990
it in, there's no excuse for the other variables,

00:27:42.349 --> 00:27:46.930
which is eat and hydrate well, move well. Think

00:27:46.930 --> 00:27:50.630
in optimal ways, optimism, you know, and I can

00:27:50.630 --> 00:27:53.589
go on and on about some of the think well strategies

00:27:53.589 --> 00:27:56.569
and then be in a community of people that are

00:27:56.569 --> 00:28:00.730
like minded and vibrant and on it. So those are

00:28:00.730 --> 00:28:04.910
the recovery pieces together. And it's silly

00:28:04.910 --> 00:28:06.910
to think that we can play the long game in an

00:28:06.910 --> 00:28:09.890
optimized way when we're grinding ourselves to

00:28:09.890 --> 00:28:12.750
a nub. Now, again, I want to just make this point.

00:28:12.809 --> 00:28:14.289
If you can't get sleep because of the rhythm

00:28:14.289 --> 00:28:16.240
of your job. or you've got a sleeping disorder,

00:28:16.539 --> 00:28:18.960
then get the other three right. Get the other

00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:20.619
four right. See if you can lock in two of the

00:28:20.619 --> 00:28:23.000
other five, three of the other five. Lock them

00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:25.740
in. There's no excuse in modern day worlds to

00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:27.900
not eat and hydrate properly. That's laziness.

00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:31.279
That's choosing comfort rather than performance.

00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:35.720
And I'll tell you, I've got just a low threshold

00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:37.460
of tolerance for that. Because people want to

00:28:37.460 --> 00:28:38.880
say, you know, I'm not getting enough sleep.

00:28:38.980 --> 00:28:40.779
Okay, okay, I get it. Well, how are you doing

00:28:40.779 --> 00:28:43.519
on eating? Yeah, I'm doing pretty good. Oh, good.

00:28:43.579 --> 00:28:45.319
Would you have for breakfast? I had some bacon

00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:48.200
and eggs. What are you talking about? What do

00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:50.319
you mean? So cholesterol and fat and bad fat?

00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:53.980
Like that's what you did? Come on. Yeah, no,

00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:55.480
absolutely. And that's what I try and do with

00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:57.400
this project. I always talk about this being

00:28:57.400 --> 00:28:59.779
a double -edged sword. So there's the ownership

00:28:59.779 --> 00:29:02.140
component. And, you know, I try and walk the

00:29:02.140 --> 00:29:04.259
walk. I'm certainly not perfect by any means,

00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:07.319
but I try and, you know, show people that I'm

00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:09.420
eating well, that I'm exercising, that I'm taking

00:29:09.420 --> 00:29:12.319
classes and all these other things. mindful practice.

00:29:12.940 --> 00:29:14.720
But then there's the other side, which is the

00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:17.140
environment that a lot of these men and women

00:29:17.140 --> 00:29:20.619
are working under, where the sleep deprivation

00:29:20.619 --> 00:29:23.599
is definitely something that the employer needs

00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:25.220
to change. A lot of these men and women are working

00:29:25.220 --> 00:29:28.220
56 hour weeks and then getting mandatory, you

00:29:28.220 --> 00:29:31.000
know, for another 24 in that week. And so it's

00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:32.900
really setting them up for failure. And I don't

00:29:32.900 --> 00:29:35.440
think it's something that people are doing maliciously,

00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:37.279
but I just don't think there's a great understanding

00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:40.700
in the sleep medicine world of the negative effects.

00:29:41.339 --> 00:29:44.619
of the lack of sleep. And so when we see, you

00:29:44.619 --> 00:29:46.759
know, the vehicle collisions in the fire service

00:29:46.759 --> 00:29:49.980
and, you know, obviously the actual deaths of

00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:53.640
the first responders, be it suicide or heart

00:29:53.640 --> 00:29:56.339
attacks, you start bringing that all in. And

00:29:56.339 --> 00:29:58.019
like you said, there's the one component, which

00:29:58.019 --> 00:29:59.579
is the ownership. Well, how are you eating before

00:29:59.579 --> 00:30:02.259
you got ill? But then the other side is the sleep

00:30:02.259 --> 00:30:05.160
as well. So my goal is to inspire the men and

00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:07.240
women to take care of themselves and all the

00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:09.339
elements that they can do. But just like you

00:30:09.339 --> 00:30:12.740
said. then encourage them to start working on

00:30:12.740 --> 00:30:14.940
their employer as to the environment and educate

00:30:14.940 --> 00:30:18.240
them that some of these environments that they're

00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:20.819
working under are creating setting them up for

00:30:20.819 --> 00:30:25.900
failure instead of success yeah flat out you

00:30:25.900 --> 00:30:28.720
know that's great and it's not easy i'll tell

00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:30.859
you that you know like with travel and alarms

00:30:30.859 --> 00:30:35.710
and and it's not there's I'm fortunate enough

00:30:35.710 --> 00:30:39.029
to spend time with elite organizations like Fortune

00:30:39.029 --> 00:30:42.369
100 franchises that have a global footprint,

00:30:42.589 --> 00:30:46.190
and they have many of the same issues. So they're

00:30:46.190 --> 00:30:48.190
not first responder type stuff where they're

00:30:48.190 --> 00:30:50.569
woke up at three in the morning. Actually, there

00:30:50.569 --> 00:30:53.650
are some groups that are problem solvers that

00:30:53.650 --> 00:30:55.910
have to do that, and they talk about they're

00:30:55.910 --> 00:30:58.829
on four -hour stints. Four hours here, four hours

00:30:58.829 --> 00:31:02.470
there, every night, broken four hours. And it's

00:31:02.470 --> 00:31:06.250
just, it's really hard. So your environment is

00:31:06.250 --> 00:31:09.650
unique that my, from the cheap seats, it's like,

00:31:09.690 --> 00:31:10.890
I don't know if there could be something more

00:31:10.890 --> 00:31:13.670
important than figuring out how to optimize recovery

00:31:13.670 --> 00:31:15.589
during the day. And that would be mindfulness.

00:31:16.109 --> 00:31:18.589
That would literally meditation as part of the

00:31:18.589 --> 00:31:20.869
practice. It would be napping. It would be kick

00:31:20.869 --> 00:31:23.289
-ass food. Like without a doubt, it'd be investing

00:31:23.289 --> 00:31:26.470
in optimal ways of thinking because we know pessimistic,

00:31:26.470 --> 00:31:29.220
anxious, frustrated. Intolerant people spend

00:31:29.220 --> 00:31:31.180
more energy when they're awake than those that

00:31:31.180 --> 00:31:36.759
are optimistic grounded presence and and have

00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:42.559
a high threshold for irritability and so Flat

00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:45.960
-out investing in thinking strategies or mindset

00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:48.700
training as we call it, you know is definitely

00:31:48.700 --> 00:31:51.380
an advantage Brilliant. All right. Well, I've

00:31:51.380 --> 00:31:53.019
heard you talking about optimism, so I'd love

00:31:53.019 --> 00:31:56.240
to elaborate a bit because you and please correct

00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:58.940
me if I'm wrong, but you talk about the relationship

00:31:58.940 --> 00:32:02.680
between fear and optimism. Is that correct? And

00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:04.819
if so, if you wouldn't mind elaborating on it.

00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:09.299
So, OK, well, let me just start with optimism

00:32:09.299 --> 00:32:14.140
first. Optimism and pessimism are learned behaviors.

00:32:14.460 --> 00:32:18.440
So there might be some proclivity in genetic

00:32:18.440 --> 00:32:21.319
coding to. to come into the world a bit anxious

00:32:21.319 --> 00:32:24.980
but we haven't found a signature that says oh

00:32:24.980 --> 00:32:28.460
this type of people are optimistic or this type

00:32:28.460 --> 00:32:32.240
of genome is you know mapping towards pessimism

00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:35.299
it's not that way so we think it best best go

00:32:35.299 --> 00:32:37.900
it's a learned behavior which begs the question

00:32:37.900 --> 00:32:41.700
who did you learn it from and if you learned

00:32:41.700 --> 00:32:44.940
it primarily from let's say your parents which

00:32:44.940 --> 00:32:46.940
most people learn their psychological framework

00:32:46.940 --> 00:32:50.480
from their parents and early experiences, and

00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:53.079
then don't change them until there's some sort

00:32:53.079 --> 00:32:56.680
of crisis, mini crisis, or deep desire to grow.

00:32:57.079 --> 00:32:59.759
Let's say your parents were just flat out amazing,

00:32:59.980 --> 00:33:02.599
and they really came from a trusting place, and

00:33:02.599 --> 00:33:04.019
they were pretty much optimistic in general.

00:33:04.279 --> 00:33:06.160
You're likely going to be an optimist, which

00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:07.500
means that you're going to look into the world,

00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:10.440
to your future. So optimism, pessimism, sorry,

00:33:10.539 --> 00:33:13.200
let me get the definition, is the way that you,

00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:15.779
the lenses that you view the future through.

00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:19.009
And optimism is like, this idea that something

00:33:19.009 --> 00:33:21.210
good is about to take place. So let me explore.

00:33:22.269 --> 00:33:25.069
Pessimism is the lenses that things don't work

00:33:25.069 --> 00:33:27.430
out. So I don't think it's going to work out

00:33:27.430 --> 00:33:31.049
for me. And I will tell you that I have not met,

00:33:31.289 --> 00:33:34.829
is that the right way to say this? Let me be

00:33:34.829 --> 00:33:37.990
more positive the way I say it. 100 % of the

00:33:37.990 --> 00:33:40.269
best in the world that I've worked with have

00:33:40.269 --> 00:33:44.029
an optimistic frame. Of course they believe if

00:33:44.029 --> 00:33:46.009
they apply their efforts that it's going to work

00:33:46.009 --> 00:33:48.380
out. Why would they put their ass out there?

00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:50.619
Why would they strain and try so hard? They fundamentally

00:33:50.619 --> 00:33:53.640
believe that good things happen to them. And

00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:55.819
it's an amazing experience that's right around

00:33:55.819 --> 00:33:58.539
the corner. And that's why, you know, for the

00:33:58.539 --> 00:34:00.940
most part, you see people compete to the very

00:34:00.940 --> 00:34:04.599
end. Now, some organizations and some people,

00:34:04.619 --> 00:34:09.380
they get information that comes into their system

00:34:09.380 --> 00:34:12.019
through their senses. They see something like

00:34:12.019 --> 00:34:14.460
they're down by 40 points or they feel something

00:34:14.460 --> 00:34:16.559
like, oh, those guys are just. they're outmatching

00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:19.239
us and they start to go into a pessimistic frame

00:34:19.239 --> 00:34:22.559
and that's actually not like totally pessimistic

00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:26.039
it's just being judgmental and trying to save

00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:30.420
one's um exposure to pain so they throw in the

00:34:30.420 --> 00:34:33.059
towel early and well i don't i don't want to

00:34:33.059 --> 00:34:34.539
be part of them i don't think you do either i

00:34:34.539 --> 00:34:37.579
would i would bet that most first responders

00:34:37.579 --> 00:34:41.000
have an optimistic frame and then but probably

00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:43.599
could use some benefit of sharpening that to

00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:47.199
make sure that the cynical nature that some organizations

00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:50.780
like to have, which is fun. There can be fun

00:34:50.780 --> 00:34:54.900
and sarcasm and cynicism, but it can become this

00:34:54.900 --> 00:34:58.019
kind of pervasive thing that chips away at a

00:34:58.019 --> 00:35:00.519
fundamental optimism. So again, let me go back

00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:02.719
to my point. Optimism and pessimism are learned.

00:35:02.860 --> 00:35:04.420
It begs the question, who did you learn it from?

00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:07.320
And if you are pessimistic or have some sort

00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:10.360
of that way about yourself, it is useful, we

00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:14.039
think, to invest in training optimism. So how

00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:19.519
do you train optimism? Well, if you take a look

00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:21.880
at good science, there's some really good research

00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:24.699
out of UPenn that suggests that just finding

00:35:24.699 --> 00:35:26.900
and exploring and writing down three amazing

00:35:26.900 --> 00:35:29.260
things every day and just writing those things

00:35:29.260 --> 00:35:32.280
down could be considered a way to train optimism.

00:35:32.980 --> 00:35:35.739
And so that's one of the ways that we think about

00:35:35.739 --> 00:35:37.659
it. We hold people accountable to finding what's

00:35:37.659 --> 00:35:39.320
amazing in their life and talking about it or

00:35:39.320 --> 00:35:41.500
writing it down. And that's actually a training

00:35:41.500 --> 00:35:43.949
mechanism. You can do that socially. In a tribe

00:35:43.949 --> 00:35:46.969
or you could do it individually and how does

00:35:46.969 --> 00:35:49.269
it relate to anxiety back to your point? Is that

00:35:49.269 --> 00:35:52.190
those that scan the world and find things pervasively

00:35:52.190 --> 00:35:56.070
that are going to go wrong certainly should Be

00:35:56.070 --> 00:35:58.070
more interest because they're more connected

00:35:58.070 --> 00:36:00.690
to all the things that could go wrong Those that

00:36:00.690 --> 00:36:02.309
scan the world and find what could be amazing.

00:36:02.530 --> 00:36:04.530
It could be great and it's based in reality not

00:36:04.530 --> 00:36:07.349
some naive approach They live in a little bit

00:36:07.349 --> 00:36:09.449
more grounded safe world. Literally their world

00:36:09.449 --> 00:36:14.340
is a little bit safer and so Those are some ways

00:36:14.340 --> 00:36:16.639
to think about optimism, pessimism, and anxiety.

00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:20.679
I love that because I think, for example, let's

00:36:20.679 --> 00:36:23.480
take the training ground that we have. I know

00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:26.139
there's a resistance to training sometimes because

00:36:26.139 --> 00:36:29.139
people are afraid to quote -unquote look stupid,

00:36:29.260 --> 00:36:31.820
make mistakes. But I think with an optimistic

00:36:31.820 --> 00:36:35.760
mindset, you already know that if you make a

00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:37.019
mistake, you're going to learn from it, so you're

00:36:37.019 --> 00:36:39.320
just going to grow anyway. And I think that that

00:36:39.320 --> 00:36:41.719
separates that from the people that are, I guess,

00:36:41.719 --> 00:36:43.480
pessimistic in a way that they're more worried

00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:46.239
about their pride and shame than they are the

00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:48.400
ultimate result, which is being able to save

00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:52.400
that life when you're relied on to do so. Yeah.

00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:55.179
And if you think about most of your crew, I bet

00:36:55.179 --> 00:36:58.000
they don't run. By the way, my dad lived in a

00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:00.559
firehouse for a number of years when he was growing

00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:03.929
up. So I've got stories in my mind about. you

00:37:03.929 --> 00:37:05.829
know, from a distance about what it's like in

00:37:05.829 --> 00:37:10.110
your world. Yeah. And so I bet most don't look

00:37:10.110 --> 00:37:14.250
at a situation and go, okay, so guys, uh, this

00:37:14.250 --> 00:37:16.929
probably isn't going to work out, you know, a

00:37:16.929 --> 00:37:19.469
little, you know, it's probably not, but you

00:37:19.469 --> 00:37:21.809
guys have to use good judgment. You have to look

00:37:21.809 --> 00:37:23.449
at the situation and say, you know what? It's

00:37:23.449 --> 00:37:26.329
too much. It is too much. Like us going in is,

00:37:26.329 --> 00:37:28.710
is, it's not the right way to do things, you

00:37:28.710 --> 00:37:31.059
know, but I bet for the most part. Most people

00:37:31.059 --> 00:37:35.880
are optimistic in your world. But there is anxiety

00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:40.179
that is a second cousin, if you will, to optimism.

00:37:40.500 --> 00:37:44.219
But anxiety is a separate skill that can be trained

00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:47.139
as well. Right. Well, I want to feed into that

00:37:47.139 --> 00:37:50.039
if we can. So me personally, and I'll just give

00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:51.840
you my anecdote, and then you tell me if I'm

00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:55.380
an anomaly or this is actually some solid science

00:37:55.380 --> 00:38:00.440
to it. have you know the the i would say the

00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:04.039
natural anxiety towards um almost like an imposter

00:38:04.039 --> 00:38:07.019
syndrome like i'm gonna fail but the overriding

00:38:07.019 --> 00:38:10.039
thing is but so there i compensate for it by

00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:14.000
training and the training to me removes the fear

00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:17.699
because when that kind of conscious mind gets

00:38:17.699 --> 00:38:20.400
thrown back when when the emergency comes in

00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:23.539
and you're literally almost uh acting automatically

00:38:24.710 --> 00:38:27.389
after the fact i look back and go okay my training

00:38:27.389 --> 00:38:29.590
you know my training did work so that that kind

00:38:29.590 --> 00:38:33.070
of anxiety went away do you find that in all

00:38:33.070 --> 00:38:35.409
the people that you train that one of the best

00:38:35.409 --> 00:38:39.070
ways of combating fear and anxiety is just to

00:38:39.070 --> 00:38:42.750
train in the first place well you've got okay

00:38:42.750 --> 00:38:48.969
partly right so what yeah you can't you can't

00:38:48.969 --> 00:38:51.050
fake anything because you know you're faking

00:38:51.050 --> 00:38:53.409
it you know that you haven't done the real work

00:38:53.710 --> 00:38:56.969
So it's partly right. So proper preparation is

00:38:56.969 --> 00:39:00.710
a requirement, but it's not enough, right? It's

00:39:00.710 --> 00:39:04.230
necessary but not sufficient. And the reason

00:39:04.230 --> 00:39:07.269
it's necessary but not sufficient is because

00:39:07.269 --> 00:39:10.969
anxiety comes from an excessive worry about what

00:39:10.969 --> 00:39:14.250
could go wrong. What is the anecdote for anxiety

00:39:14.250 --> 00:39:19.329
is confidence, which is a relationship that you

00:39:19.329 --> 00:39:22.070
have with yourself about what you think you can

00:39:22.070 --> 00:39:26.139
do. So anxiety, I'm sorry, confidence only comes

00:39:26.139 --> 00:39:28.139
from one place, which is not your preparation.

00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:30.639
It comes from what you say to yourself about

00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:33.780
your preparation in relationship to the demands

00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:37.039
that are coming down the pipe. Okay, so if you

00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:39.719
haven't done the work, you probably should be

00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:43.079
nervous. Okay, like in life, if you know, and

00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:45.159
in performance, you haven't done the work, you

00:39:45.159 --> 00:39:47.139
probably should be nervous. If you've done the

00:39:47.139 --> 00:39:50.559
work, and you know that the work has been solid,

00:39:50.659 --> 00:39:54.460
and you Have a way of maintaining your integrity

00:39:54.460 --> 00:39:56.940
about your skills, what your skills actually

00:39:56.940 --> 00:39:59.599
are. And you say, you know what? My skills are

00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:04.000
X. The demand coming down in this event are X

00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:07.500
plus one. I think I can do that. But if you say

00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:10.980
that my skills are X and you perceive the demands

00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:13.380
of the environment to be X plus 10, you probably

00:40:13.380 --> 00:40:18.179
should be very nervous. So self -talk is essential.

00:40:18.719 --> 00:40:23.969
And self -talk has to be credible. Based on what

00:40:23.969 --> 00:40:26.289
you've experienced and done in your past as an

00:40:26.289 --> 00:40:28.369
estimate of what you can do in the future So

00:40:28.369 --> 00:40:31.550
that I mean, it's a kind of a technical way to

00:40:31.550 --> 00:40:34.710
think about your relationship to training But

00:40:34.710 --> 00:40:37.730
I've seen plenty of people that are they put

00:40:37.730 --> 00:40:40.409
in blood sweat and tears flat -out They've trained

00:40:40.409 --> 00:40:44.030
their ass off to do what they do and then I'm

00:40:44.030 --> 00:40:46.630
thinking right now of cage fighting and In the

00:40:46.630 --> 00:40:49.190
gym on the mat, they're incredible and they put

00:40:49.190 --> 00:40:52.420
in the right work And in the back warm -up ready

00:40:52.420 --> 00:40:54.780
room, they are feeling pretty good, but they've

00:40:54.780 --> 00:40:57.340
got some elevated nervousness or anxiousness

00:40:57.340 --> 00:41:00.599
going on. And then by the time they walk up the

00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:03.599
five steps to get into the cage, they've given

00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:09.219
themselves away. They've turned over and exposed

00:41:09.219 --> 00:41:11.920
their soft belly because of what they've been

00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:14.059
saying to themselves for the last 45 minutes

00:41:14.059 --> 00:41:17.630
to an hour and a half. And so the success alone,

00:41:17.809 --> 00:41:21.389
the preparation and even past success is not

00:41:21.389 --> 00:41:23.849
enough. You've got to really have that heartiness

00:41:23.849 --> 00:41:26.670
about yourself, that steeliness to say, bullshit,

00:41:26.889 --> 00:41:28.969
like I put in the work, let's go. I'm here to

00:41:28.969 --> 00:41:31.710
test my skills. And this is what I've decided

00:41:31.710 --> 00:41:33.210
to do with my life. This is what I've trained

00:41:33.210 --> 00:41:36.230
for. And I don't have all the answers. And I,

00:41:36.429 --> 00:41:39.190
because of that, I need to figure out how to

00:41:39.190 --> 00:41:42.869
love the unknown. And those that are anxious,

00:41:43.289 --> 00:41:45.659
they don't really love. what they do. They don't

00:41:45.659 --> 00:41:49.880
really love it. What they love is relief. What

00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:52.739
they love is the escape that happens when it's

00:41:52.739 --> 00:41:55.360
over. And they feel good about it. And they love

00:41:55.360 --> 00:41:57.980
what the thing does for them. Not what not the

00:41:57.980 --> 00:42:02.159
actual grinding of figuring out, do I have skills,

00:42:02.460 --> 00:42:04.179
they're more afraid of what other people think

00:42:04.179 --> 00:42:07.280
of them than the actual love of being tested.

00:42:07.780 --> 00:42:12.420
And so, you know, I I say all this to you right

00:42:12.420 --> 00:42:14.679
now, and I know your community is going, what

00:42:14.679 --> 00:42:17.719
is he talking about? Because there's an old thought

00:42:17.719 --> 00:42:21.579
that I'm battling, and it's been around for hundreds

00:42:21.579 --> 00:42:23.980
of years. Nervousness is okay. It means you care.

00:42:24.139 --> 00:42:27.019
No, no, that's wrong. That comes from a very

00:42:27.019 --> 00:42:30.960
unsophisticated place. That's not right. Your

00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:33.380
system should turn on. You should have an alarm

00:42:33.380 --> 00:42:35.199
phase that kicks on when something is important

00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:37.480
to you. Fight, flight, freeze, submission, or

00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:40.679
flow state are all options. And so, yes, your

00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:43.139
system should turn on and knowing what to do

00:42:43.139 --> 00:42:46.400
with that arousal switching on adrenaline thing

00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:50.460
is what a somebody who has mastery of self is

00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:53.360
all about. It does not mean nervousness. It means

00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:55.739
readiness. But if you don't know what to do with

00:42:55.739 --> 00:42:59.039
the internal activation and you feel your body,

00:42:59.059 --> 00:43:01.679
you say to yourself, oh, shit, maybe I'm not

00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:04.159
ready. That's just that's a that's literally

00:43:04.159 --> 00:43:08.079
an untrained, undisciplined mind. And so I feel

00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:09.829
like I'm. I got to get off my little soapbox

00:43:09.829 --> 00:43:12.010
here. I get so animated because I've been, I

00:43:12.010 --> 00:43:14.809
felt all the pain that so many people have felt.

00:43:15.070 --> 00:43:18.989
And I wish I knew what I know now that at age

00:43:18.989 --> 00:43:23.250
15 and 25 even, you know, it is not hard. It's

00:43:23.250 --> 00:43:26.090
not hard to train your mind. It's not. And, but

00:43:26.090 --> 00:43:29.349
we've got these old thinking patterns that, you

00:43:29.349 --> 00:43:32.110
know, I don't know. They just slow us down. It's

00:43:32.110 --> 00:43:36.329
not some of our. psychological framework models

00:43:36.329 --> 00:43:38.369
that have been passed down from ancestors, our

00:43:38.369 --> 00:43:42.489
ancestors are not good for us. Yeah, no, you

00:43:42.489 --> 00:43:44.230
absolutely, you haven't been, you know, every

00:43:44.230 --> 00:43:46.230
single word that you've said is going to resonate

00:43:46.230 --> 00:43:48.489
deeply because there are people that are put

00:43:48.489 --> 00:43:50.809
in the work that are still terrified of heights,

00:43:50.969 --> 00:43:52.769
you know, that, you know, a great firefighters

00:43:52.769 --> 00:43:55.289
that, that their knees start knocking at 10 feet

00:43:55.289 --> 00:43:57.909
up. And so it's an interesting thing to explore

00:43:57.909 --> 00:44:01.909
because the, I guess the Neanderthal in all of

00:44:01.909 --> 00:44:04.300
us is just, you know, calling them a bunch of

00:44:04.300 --> 00:44:06.880
profanity and then tell them to get their scared

00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:09.199
ass up the ladder, you know. But it's interesting

00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:11.980
to see, to delve deeper and see, okay, well,

00:44:12.039 --> 00:44:15.639
what can we get them to do, like you said, with

00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:17.659
the self -talk while we're doing this training

00:44:17.659 --> 00:44:21.780
that's going to increase their resilience? Yeah,

00:44:22.119 --> 00:44:24.519
so that's a nice one. So it's actually not increasing

00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:27.619
resilience. It's increasing capacity. So resiliency

00:44:27.619 --> 00:44:31.239
is going through difficult times and being able

00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:35.400
to bounce back. Right. Right. So like that, that

00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:36.960
what you're describing is not resiliency. What

00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:39.019
you're describing is building the capacity. And

00:44:39.019 --> 00:44:41.559
there's two capacities to build. One capacity

00:44:41.559 --> 00:44:45.260
is awareness of your inner dialogue and the skill

00:44:45.260 --> 00:44:47.800
to choose great thoughts that you can train that.

00:44:48.280 --> 00:44:51.300
Right. That's not hard to do. The second capacity

00:44:51.300 --> 00:44:54.960
is the awareness of your arousal levels, heart

00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:58.280
rate, you know, your body being switched on and

00:44:58.280 --> 00:45:01.820
then the skill to manage that. And those are

00:45:01.820 --> 00:45:03.320
both mental skills that we're talking about.

00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:06.300
So awareness comes first and then skills. So

00:45:06.300 --> 00:45:10.099
what helps people calm down, breathe? What helps

00:45:10.099 --> 00:45:14.179
people become more aware of their arousal levels?

00:45:14.780 --> 00:45:18.099
Mindfulness. What helps people, you know, the

00:45:18.099 --> 00:45:20.420
skill of speaking well to yourself? That's self

00:45:20.420 --> 00:45:23.059
-talk. What helps people become more aware of

00:45:23.059 --> 00:45:28.860
their inner self -talk? Mindfulness. It's not

00:45:28.860 --> 00:45:30.960
hard, but let's just use the latter example for

00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:34.000
a moment before I go to the more concrete example.

00:45:34.619 --> 00:45:36.980
Good science would suggest anywhere between eight

00:45:36.980 --> 00:45:40.739
minutes and 20 minutes of investing in a mindfulness

00:45:40.739 --> 00:45:43.440
practice to increase, to create some real change.

00:45:43.900 --> 00:45:45.699
And if you do it once, you're not going to get

00:45:45.699 --> 00:45:47.219
much change. If you do it for a month, you'll

00:45:47.219 --> 00:45:49.300
get a little bit of change. You do it for six

00:45:49.300 --> 00:45:51.179
months, you'll see some stuff. You do it for

00:45:51.179 --> 00:45:53.059
six years, you're going to really notice a difference.

00:45:53.739 --> 00:45:56.519
And the whole game. before i get to the concreteness

00:45:56.519 --> 00:45:59.940
is to go from training a skill to having a state

00:45:59.940 --> 00:46:03.619
an optimized state more often so from skill to

00:46:03.619 --> 00:46:07.280
state and then from state once we have an optimized

00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:09.940
state more often it just might turn into an enduring

00:46:09.940 --> 00:46:12.820
trait where it becomes a signature strength of

00:46:12.820 --> 00:46:16.300
yours that's reliable and durable and so from

00:46:16.300 --> 00:46:19.239
skill to state to trait is kind of the arc that

00:46:19.239 --> 00:46:24.630
we're looking for and you know for I would encourage

00:46:24.630 --> 00:46:27.929
you to go down the path of using something super

00:46:27.929 --> 00:46:30.969
concrete about ladder climbing or heights and

00:46:30.969 --> 00:46:36.190
do some searching on systematic desensitization.

00:46:37.269 --> 00:46:40.690
And it's a great evidence -based protocol about

00:46:40.690 --> 00:46:43.889
how to train somebody that has a fear response.

00:46:44.630 --> 00:46:47.929
If they get up to five steps and that's where

00:46:47.929 --> 00:46:49.670
their knees start to shake, well, get them to

00:46:49.670 --> 00:46:54.300
four, teach them how to think properly. and then

00:46:54.300 --> 00:46:56.199
how to breathe properly and they don't get to

00:46:56.199 --> 00:46:58.480
go to step five until they're calm and they get

00:46:58.480 --> 00:46:59.940
to step five and their knees start to shake that

00:46:59.940 --> 00:47:02.260
right and they're rattling okay well then they

00:47:02.260 --> 00:47:04.500
need to think right and breathe right and be

00:47:04.500 --> 00:47:08.639
in that moment and they can't go down or up until

00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:15.199
they master a sense of control on step five and

00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:17.460
then if and then they can get they can go down

00:47:17.460 --> 00:47:20.059
or they can go to six and they start to rattle

00:47:20.059 --> 00:47:24.019
at six same thing Go back to the thinking strategies

00:47:24.019 --> 00:47:27.179
to optimize them and the breathing until they

00:47:27.179 --> 00:47:30.019
get calm. Systematic desensitization, great program,

00:47:30.179 --> 00:47:33.519
evidence -based, really clean. There's four or

00:47:33.519 --> 00:47:36.519
five steps prior to what I just described to

00:47:36.519 --> 00:47:40.440
you in that protocol, but it's really nice. Fantastic.

00:47:40.659 --> 00:47:42.119
Yeah, I think that would be very helpful to a

00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:43.900
lot of people because we challenge ourselves

00:47:43.900 --> 00:47:47.320
in so many ways. And obviously the PD side, those

00:47:47.320 --> 00:47:49.639
guys have the fact that someone's trying to kill

00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:52.179
them is the main thing. For us, whether it's

00:47:52.179 --> 00:47:54.480
going down tight spaces, climbing through a collapsed

00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:57.739
building, going up an elevation, there's so many

00:47:57.739 --> 00:48:02.119
challenges to the nervous system that you really

00:48:02.119 --> 00:48:04.820
do have to get controlled. So if you're claustrophobic

00:48:04.820 --> 00:48:06.440
or you fear of heights or you're scared of water,

00:48:06.739 --> 00:48:08.340
there's all these elements that we have to overcome.

00:48:08.739 --> 00:48:10.519
So I'm sure there'll be a lot of people listening

00:48:10.519 --> 00:48:11.940
to this that would really find that important.

00:48:12.099 --> 00:48:15.320
So thank you. So you touched on the state. I

00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:17.019
want to go all the way to the other side now.

00:48:17.179 --> 00:48:19.800
And I hear this phrase all the time. And I think...

00:48:20.329 --> 00:48:22.849
I think I experienced it maybe a few times in

00:48:22.849 --> 00:48:24.989
emergencies, but one time as an athlete, I was

00:48:24.989 --> 00:48:28.389
a taekwondo practitioner years ago. And I remember

00:48:28.389 --> 00:48:32.070
a specific fight where I could visualize exactly

00:48:32.070 --> 00:48:34.329
what the person was going to do before they did

00:48:34.329 --> 00:48:37.809
it, reacted accordingly, went from being, I think

00:48:37.809 --> 00:48:42.309
it was eight points to zero deficit to knocking

00:48:42.309 --> 00:48:45.309
this guy down, ended up winning the fight. And

00:48:45.309 --> 00:48:47.750
I'm assuming that was what they call a flow state.

00:48:48.539 --> 00:48:51.880
So would you mind educating me as to what a flow

00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:54.860
state is and how that applies in life in general?

00:48:55.699 --> 00:49:00.699
Sure. It's not complicated, you know, as an experience

00:49:00.699 --> 00:49:03.940
because you've already had it. And you know what

00:49:03.940 --> 00:49:08.280
it feels like to be at your very best. And there's

00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:11.179
a distortion of time that happens for most people.

00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:13.639
But 80 % of people in flow state have a distortion

00:49:13.639 --> 00:49:16.840
of time, which is like, whoa, that was 45 minutes

00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:21.420
or oh, my God. It felt like those 10 seconds

00:49:21.420 --> 00:49:23.980
felt like an hour. Like I felt like I could do

00:49:23.980 --> 00:49:26.699
anything I wanted inside those 10 seconds. So

00:49:26.699 --> 00:49:31.900
it's when you, excuse me, I just gasped for air.

00:49:32.019 --> 00:49:36.400
It's literally when you are at your best. And

00:49:36.400 --> 00:49:38.699
that's what a flow state is. It's the most optimized

00:49:38.699 --> 00:49:45.429
experience a person can be in. And so. How do

00:49:45.429 --> 00:49:48.190
you get there more often? Well, it's a big part

00:49:48.190 --> 00:49:51.869
of the inner game, which is interpreting your

00:49:51.869 --> 00:49:55.329
environment to be challenging and honoring that

00:49:55.329 --> 00:49:58.849
you have the skills to match that demand. It

00:49:58.849 --> 00:50:02.210
is embracing the unknown and the risk that comes

00:50:02.210 --> 00:50:06.030
with that. It's having very clear goals about

00:50:06.030 --> 00:50:09.150
what it is that you need to do or want to do

00:50:09.150 --> 00:50:12.840
and how you want to do it. It's being in an environment

00:50:12.840 --> 00:50:15.780
where the feedback loops are rich so that you

00:50:15.780 --> 00:50:21.579
know from a moment -to -moment feedback loop

00:50:21.579 --> 00:50:25.179
how you're doing. Those are some of the conditions

00:50:25.179 --> 00:50:30.199
that precede and can be actually manipulated,

00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:33.239
if you will, and trained to increase the frequency

00:50:33.239 --> 00:50:36.059
of flow state. Again, I want to come back to

00:50:36.059 --> 00:50:37.980
mindfulness. There's a nice little piece of research

00:50:37.980 --> 00:50:40.340
that those that practice mindfulness have an

00:50:40.340 --> 00:50:43.900
increased frequency and flow state. And so mindfulness

00:50:43.900 --> 00:50:45.900
a la meditation is what most people call it,

00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:50.119
is a low threshold entry to threshold training.

00:50:50.360 --> 00:50:52.440
You don't even have to break a sweat. You just

00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:55.199
have to basically sit still or walk mindfully

00:50:55.199 --> 00:50:57.880
for eight minutes. Maybe one minute if that's

00:50:57.880 --> 00:51:01.139
all you can get in. So it's relatively low threshold.

00:51:02.190 --> 00:51:04.250
All right. Well, that was a great segue into

00:51:04.250 --> 00:51:06.489
a big part that I wanted to ask about, which

00:51:06.489 --> 00:51:10.050
was mindful practice. I've been exposed to it

00:51:10.050 --> 00:51:12.710
a little bit through Rodney Yee, the yoga guru,

00:51:12.809 --> 00:51:18.909
and then Headspace, the app. And I can say right

00:51:18.909 --> 00:51:21.650
now I have experienced great benefits. I've fallen

00:51:21.650 --> 00:51:23.429
off the wagon myself. I'll be the first to admit

00:51:23.429 --> 00:51:32.860
it. I'm trying to get myself back on there. Basically,

00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:35.199
what would be the first few steps to lead them

00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:38.019
into finding the right mindful practice for them?

00:51:38.139 --> 00:51:40.920
And then as you kind of touched on before, what

00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:43.719
volume of mindful practice they should try and

00:51:43.719 --> 00:51:49.300
aspire to get? Well, I think that there's so

00:51:49.300 --> 00:51:52.099
many types of mindfulness. There's no science

00:51:52.099 --> 00:51:54.739
that would say for this type of person, this

00:51:54.739 --> 00:51:56.780
is the right duration and this is the right type.

00:51:56.860 --> 00:51:59.820
So we're too early in the science there. But

00:51:59.820 --> 00:52:03.900
what I would suggest people do is maybe just

00:52:03.900 --> 00:52:07.519
do a quick little investigation on why you're

00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:10.420
curious about mindfulness. Like, what is it that

00:52:10.420 --> 00:52:13.739
you're looking for? And so just be clear about

00:52:13.739 --> 00:52:15.500
like the purpose of why you want to train it.

00:52:15.539 --> 00:52:19.179
Is it for recovery? You know, that's good. But

00:52:19.179 --> 00:52:22.260
the real main focus is to increase your awareness.

00:52:22.599 --> 00:52:25.409
So you become. more aware of your thoughts, emotions,

00:52:25.710 --> 00:52:28.150
your body sensations, the environment around

00:52:28.150 --> 00:52:31.369
you, so that you can adjust and pivot in a more

00:52:31.369 --> 00:52:33.889
authentic, optimized way. And that's like the

00:52:33.889 --> 00:52:36.510
first pillar. And the second pillar is to reveal

00:52:36.510 --> 00:52:41.269
the wisdom, the true nature of things about yourself

00:52:41.269 --> 00:52:45.809
and about the world. Those are the two big pillars

00:52:45.809 --> 00:52:49.130
of mindfulness. The gold dust in modern times

00:52:49.130 --> 00:52:52.550
is relaxation. But that's just the gold dust.

00:52:53.150 --> 00:52:55.389
So I think it's important to go, like, really

00:52:55.389 --> 00:52:57.130
get really clear, like, what are you looking

00:52:57.130 --> 00:53:00.329
for? Why are you doing it? And if you're doing

00:53:00.329 --> 00:53:03.590
it because, you know, somebody told you to do

00:53:03.590 --> 00:53:04.929
it, that's not right. And if you're doing it

00:53:04.929 --> 00:53:08.030
because, you know, if one of your community members

00:53:08.030 --> 00:53:09.730
are doing it because they respect you, that's

00:53:09.730 --> 00:53:12.329
not quite right. It's good, but it's not going

00:53:12.329 --> 00:53:15.530
to last. And so getting crisp on that is the

00:53:15.530 --> 00:53:18.690
first thing. And then there's two types of mindfulness.

00:53:18.909 --> 00:53:20.989
There's single point and then contemplative.

00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:23.739
Single point is just as simple as focusing on

00:53:23.739 --> 00:53:27.119
one thing for an extended period of time. And

00:53:27.119 --> 00:53:28.599
then your mind wanders and you gently bring it

00:53:28.599 --> 00:53:30.940
back. That's it. And contemplative, let's put

00:53:30.940 --> 00:53:32.800
a pin in that one. It's a little bit more complicated.

00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:36.139
And I would suggest starting with single point,

00:53:36.219 --> 00:53:40.579
starting with focusing on breathing. And the

00:53:40.579 --> 00:53:42.559
reason I like breathing as opposed to anything

00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:44.460
that you can focus your mind on is that until

00:53:44.460 --> 00:53:47.219
you die, your breathing is always available to

00:53:47.219 --> 00:53:52.099
you. And so... I would start there. And then

00:53:52.099 --> 00:53:55.139
I could go one level kind of deeper. And there's

00:53:55.139 --> 00:53:56.860
lots of ways to think about breathing training.

00:53:57.099 --> 00:54:00.619
And there's some relatively new science around

00:54:00.619 --> 00:54:02.420
it. But there's been some ancient traditions

00:54:02.420 --> 00:54:05.420
for a while. But even as far as 20 years ago,

00:54:05.480 --> 00:54:07.340
people were saying, hey, listen, somewhere between

00:54:07.340 --> 00:54:11.079
five and six breaths a minute is going to impact

00:54:11.079 --> 00:54:13.420
people's heart rate variability and their responses

00:54:13.420 --> 00:54:16.719
to stress. And if you think about that, if we're

00:54:16.719 --> 00:54:20.489
looking at somewhere between five and six. breaths

00:54:20.489 --> 00:54:22.869
per minute. We've got 60 seconds in a minute.

00:54:23.110 --> 00:54:25.130
That means each breath is somewhere between 10

00:54:25.130 --> 00:54:29.070
and 12 seconds. And so then if I could add one

00:54:29.070 --> 00:54:31.650
more layer to this, if you focused on a breath

00:54:31.650 --> 00:54:36.409
up for eight, I'm sorry, you know, like up for

00:54:36.409 --> 00:54:39.869
four and out for six, that's cool. Maybe you

00:54:39.869 --> 00:54:41.389
want to extend it a little bit longer and go

00:54:41.389 --> 00:54:44.469
up for eight and out for 12. You can get around

00:54:44.469 --> 00:54:46.610
the four, four breaths per minute, somewhere

00:54:46.610 --> 00:54:48.650
in that range. Or you want to do box breathing

00:54:48.650 --> 00:54:52.380
and you go. You know, up for three, out for three.

00:54:53.239 --> 00:54:55.380
I'm sorry, up for three, hold for three, out

00:54:55.380 --> 00:54:57.699
for three, pause for three at the bottom. You

00:54:57.699 --> 00:55:00.900
know, somewhere in that range. So I would just,

00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:05.119
I can't give you too much because I don't want

00:55:05.119 --> 00:55:08.139
to overwhelm folks. But at the same time, it's

00:55:08.139 --> 00:55:12.239
like just focus on making your exhale longer

00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:16.420
than your inhale. That's it. Like make your exhale

00:55:16.420 --> 00:55:19.500
longer than your inhale. and focus on that as

00:55:19.500 --> 00:55:21.320
if a loved one's life depending on you getting

00:55:21.320 --> 00:55:23.880
it right that would be the right type of way

00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:27.099
to do it well i found very good success with

00:55:27.099 --> 00:55:29.559
that on the way to a call when obviously we get

00:55:29.559 --> 00:55:31.199
calls that it's a sprained ankle you're not really

00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:33.239
too anxious about that but when it's the you

00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:35.380
know pediatric code or some of these other ones

00:55:35.380 --> 00:55:38.260
that really have the potential for for spark

00:55:38.260 --> 00:55:41.480
in our adrenal system um i do that on the way

00:55:41.480 --> 00:55:44.639
to the call i try and i try and uh I wouldn't

00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:46.099
even say it was box breathing, more what you

00:55:46.099 --> 00:55:48.320
were talking about, a slow inhalation, a slow

00:55:48.320 --> 00:55:51.900
exhalation. But what's even more pertinent is

00:55:51.900 --> 00:55:54.400
when we are in the fire, if we're actually on

00:55:54.400 --> 00:55:58.219
a fire call, we only have enough air. The air

00:55:58.219 --> 00:56:00.300
on our back is all we have in the world. So the

00:56:00.300 --> 00:56:03.380
more control we are with our breathing, the anxiety

00:56:03.380 --> 00:56:05.340
portion, the mental portion, but even the physiological

00:56:05.340 --> 00:56:08.840
portion, the more air we have, the more chance

00:56:08.840 --> 00:56:11.519
we, A, have to reach someone, and B, get ourselves

00:56:11.519 --> 00:56:15.579
out safely as well. That's exactly it. And then

00:56:15.579 --> 00:56:19.539
I would challenge you, James, maybe to do that

00:56:19.539 --> 00:56:22.940
breathing every day, right? So that you're not

00:56:22.940 --> 00:56:25.840
just doing it in crisis mode to manage, but you're

00:56:25.840 --> 00:56:27.940
front -loading the training to get ahead of it

00:56:27.940 --> 00:56:31.300
so that you do have better controls of your arousal

00:56:31.300 --> 00:56:34.420
system, your nervous system, as well as potentially

00:56:34.420 --> 00:56:37.659
slipping into some really deep understanding

00:56:37.659 --> 00:56:40.539
and some awareness. Because what ends up happening

00:56:40.539 --> 00:56:43.320
when you're focusing on... all of your essence

00:56:43.320 --> 00:56:45.619
on your breathing, you become better at spending

00:56:45.619 --> 00:56:48.360
time in the present moment. And the present moment

00:56:48.360 --> 00:56:50.599
is where you experience high performance, but

00:56:50.599 --> 00:56:53.519
more importantly, you reveal wisdom. Yeah, yeah.

00:56:53.579 --> 00:56:55.239
And another thing that I've, me personally, I

00:56:55.239 --> 00:56:56.880
suffer from is the monkey mind. And I heard,

00:56:56.920 --> 00:57:01.300
I think it was... Wayne Dyer talking about, I'm

00:57:01.300 --> 00:57:03.099
sure I've got the numbers completely wrong, but

00:57:03.099 --> 00:57:05.980
we have 10 ,000 thoughts a day on 100 things.

00:57:06.139 --> 00:57:08.139
And that's definitely what my mind is. And I

00:57:08.139 --> 00:57:11.320
think it's made worse by social media and all

00:57:11.320 --> 00:57:14.599
the other inputs that we have. And when I've

00:57:14.599 --> 00:57:17.300
been doing this mindful practice, it's just calmed

00:57:17.300 --> 00:57:19.739
that down. And I know that we talk about it a

00:57:19.739 --> 00:57:21.619
lot. You don't meditate once and everything goes

00:57:21.619 --> 00:57:25.139
away. You become aware of it. But just clearing

00:57:25.139 --> 00:57:28.219
the white noise from my brain is so restorative

00:57:28.219 --> 00:57:32.719
in itself. That's it. That's it. That's great.

00:57:33.760 --> 00:57:36.780
And I don't, just to be clear, I don't agree

00:57:36.780 --> 00:57:42.019
with the 10 ,000 thoughts. But yes, the concept

00:57:42.019 --> 00:57:44.360
is right on the money. Okay, well, let's explore

00:57:44.360 --> 00:57:47.519
that then. So what would be your take on that

00:57:47.519 --> 00:57:51.760
whole concept? For thoughts? Yeah, for white

00:57:51.760 --> 00:57:56.179
noise. Oh, yeah. The whole job is to get from

00:57:56.179 --> 00:58:00.800
noise to signal. That's our job, right? Get out

00:58:00.800 --> 00:58:02.440
the noise, get to the signal. That's our job

00:58:02.440 --> 00:58:05.219
definitely for first responders, definitely for

00:58:05.219 --> 00:58:07.579
people on the path of mastery. is get to the

00:58:07.579 --> 00:58:09.960
signal. What's the signal? And the signal can

00:58:09.960 --> 00:58:12.179
only be experienced in the present moment. And

00:58:12.179 --> 00:58:14.900
if your monkey mind, your wandering mind, your

00:58:14.900 --> 00:58:17.940
undisciplined mind, which is most of our minds,

00:58:18.159 --> 00:58:22.639
can't really tell the difference between signal

00:58:22.639 --> 00:58:25.920
and noise, we've got problems. And if it's undisciplined

00:58:25.920 --> 00:58:27.659
and connected to the noise, we've got problems.

00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:30.539
And so how do you get better at it is training

00:58:30.539 --> 00:58:32.360
your mind to be in the present moment more often.

00:58:32.440 --> 00:58:34.079
That's where mindfulness is such an advantage

00:58:34.079 --> 00:58:38.079
for performance. Let alone, I don't know, James,

00:58:38.179 --> 00:58:41.659
if you know a wise man or woman, like a true

00:58:41.659 --> 00:58:47.019
wise woman or true wise man. Yeah, please. I

00:58:47.019 --> 00:58:49.780
was going to say, what would be a stereotypically

00:58:49.780 --> 00:58:53.699
wise person? No. And they're rare because most

00:58:53.699 --> 00:58:56.440
people are more interested in performance and

00:58:56.440 --> 00:59:02.340
looking good than like wisdom. And so like wisdom,

00:59:02.460 --> 00:59:05.980
when people have wisdom. They just don't get

00:59:05.980 --> 00:59:09.639
rattled. It's great. It's wonderful. It's not

00:59:09.639 --> 00:59:12.800
crazy. It's wonderful. You know, they understand

00:59:12.800 --> 00:59:16.099
the fragility of now because they've, they've

00:59:16.099 --> 00:59:20.039
explored the depths of depth and they're like,

00:59:20.119 --> 00:59:21.480
yeah, okay, well now it's all we get. How are

00:59:21.480 --> 00:59:23.500
we going to do now? Oh, poor thing. You're going

00:59:23.500 --> 00:59:25.860
to be nervous about now. Nothing's really even

00:59:25.860 --> 00:59:28.079
happening right now. It's just a conversation,

00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:31.219
you know, like, oh, okay. So you're, you're in

00:59:31.219 --> 00:59:33.599
your, you're in your truck heading to the. to

00:59:33.599 --> 00:59:36.500
the call well okay good so you know it's very

00:59:36.500 --> 00:59:39.000
important i hope that you'll you'll be your very

00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:41.179
best because people are counting on you you know

00:59:41.179 --> 00:59:43.960
it's just wisdom is different and it's awesome

00:59:43.960 --> 00:59:47.260
and you think they achieve that through mindful

00:59:47.260 --> 00:59:50.099
uh mindful practice and just controlling their

00:59:50.099 --> 00:59:55.380
own thoughts awareness spending more time in

00:59:55.380 --> 00:59:57.320
the present moment thinking about things deeply

00:59:58.110 --> 01:00:00.230
You know, whether that's writing or in conversation

01:00:00.230 --> 01:00:03.349
or mindfulness, those are the three ways I think

01:00:03.349 --> 01:00:06.269
that wisdom is revealed. And through inspired

01:00:06.269 --> 01:00:08.889
conversations, writing some shit down that's

01:00:08.889 --> 01:00:11.949
deep and then, you know, listening, you know,

01:00:11.949 --> 01:00:15.250
and and and the challenge when you write things

01:00:15.250 --> 01:00:17.789
down is that forces you to choose some words.

01:00:17.929 --> 01:00:20.730
It doesn't mean it's any good, but like it's

01:00:20.730 --> 01:00:23.750
there's a practice there, too. Yeah. Well, it's

01:00:23.750 --> 01:00:25.849
funny you mentioned earlier about the study of

01:00:25.849 --> 01:00:28.849
writing down three things that you're grateful

01:00:28.849 --> 01:00:31.130
for, optimistic. I have the five -minute journal,

01:00:31.230 --> 01:00:33.210
which I'm sure has spawned from that study in

01:00:33.210 --> 01:00:36.010
some way. And again, it just forces you to be

01:00:36.010 --> 01:00:38.789
gracious in the morning, have gratitude, and

01:00:38.789 --> 01:00:41.170
then to do the same thing before you go to bed

01:00:41.170 --> 01:00:43.449
and try and unload some of that mental baggage.

01:00:44.590 --> 01:00:49.090
That's it. That's it. Nice work. All right. Well,

01:00:49.170 --> 01:00:51.880
talking about that. I listened to you on the

01:00:51.880 --> 01:00:54.039
Ultimate Health podcast. They had you on as a

01:00:54.039 --> 01:00:58.280
guest. And you talked about the 60 -second waking

01:00:58.280 --> 01:01:00.679
practice. And I'd love to get that on recording

01:01:00.679 --> 01:01:03.179
for this too. So I'll elaborate a little bit.

01:01:03.519 --> 01:01:06.760
Including that and other things that you would

01:01:06.760 --> 01:01:09.760
recommend people do on a daily basis to try and

01:01:09.760 --> 01:01:14.659
start steering themselves towards mastery of

01:01:14.659 --> 01:01:17.820
themselves. Well, I think this is too small.

01:01:18.500 --> 01:01:21.559
It's a beginning. you know, it's cool and it's

01:01:21.559 --> 01:01:24.820
a beginnings could be wonderful. I'd really,

01:01:24.840 --> 01:01:27.840
there's so much I'd want to share with your audience

01:01:27.840 --> 01:01:31.659
and your community about the path of mastery,

01:01:31.739 --> 01:01:35.019
but certainly this is a nice little easy entry

01:01:35.019 --> 01:01:39.139
point. So the four steps, one is one breath before

01:01:39.139 --> 01:01:41.440
you take your sheets off one breath. That's it.

01:01:42.099 --> 01:01:45.139
And if you want to do two, nice. If you want

01:01:45.139 --> 01:01:46.840
to do more than that, great, no problems. But

01:01:46.840 --> 01:01:49.039
like one full breath with the exhales, longer

01:01:49.039 --> 01:01:51.599
the inhale. And that comes before you check Instagram,

01:01:51.760 --> 01:01:54.579
Twitter, you know, or even have thoughts about

01:01:54.579 --> 01:01:57.079
all the busyness and things you need to get done

01:01:57.079 --> 01:02:00.519
today. Like just one deep inhale and exhale.

01:02:01.199 --> 01:02:05.059
Then step two is one thought of gratitude. Just

01:02:05.059 --> 01:02:07.659
wake up that part of your brain and your mind

01:02:07.659 --> 01:02:10.420
to focus on what's good and what you're grateful

01:02:10.420 --> 01:02:14.670
for. And we have a thought that gratitude precedes

01:02:14.670 --> 01:02:18.489
joy and happiness. And so that's just kind of

01:02:18.489 --> 01:02:20.690
priming the right structures in your brain. And

01:02:20.690 --> 01:02:21.929
if you want to have more than one thought, again,

01:02:22.050 --> 01:02:24.849
great. That's totally cool. And then step three

01:02:24.849 --> 01:02:29.550
is one intention. And that's a fancy word for

01:02:29.550 --> 01:02:33.670
how do you want to be today. And if you can be

01:02:33.670 --> 01:02:37.590
really crisp, like when I get to the, yeah, when

01:02:37.590 --> 01:02:42.239
I get to the. the office or when I see the guys

01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:46.059
or the team or whatever, that you say, how do

01:02:46.059 --> 01:02:48.340
I want to do that? And it's just a quick little

01:02:48.340 --> 01:02:52.039
frame. And then, so those are three steps. And

01:02:52.039 --> 01:02:54.239
then the last is take your sheets off, put your

01:02:54.239 --> 01:02:55.460
feet on the ground and just be where your feet

01:02:55.460 --> 01:02:59.539
are. And that one can get corny. So beware, you

01:02:59.539 --> 01:03:01.659
know, and it can kick up some ideas like, what

01:03:01.659 --> 01:03:03.760
am I doing? Oh, wait, that's right. Just be where

01:03:03.760 --> 01:03:06.659
my feet is. This is weird. Why am I doing this?

01:03:06.820 --> 01:03:08.780
God, look at that. I really am hard on myself.

01:03:09.309 --> 01:03:10.969
I can't even quiet my mind and be where my feet

01:03:10.969 --> 01:03:12.989
are. Okay, let me start. Okay, let me just feel

01:03:12.989 --> 01:03:16.170
my feet on the ground. What am I doing? You know,

01:03:16.210 --> 01:03:17.869
like that's the experience that happens on that

01:03:17.869 --> 01:03:19.929
last one. So it's just a nice little moment to

01:03:19.929 --> 01:03:21.869
check in to the quality of your mind. Can you

01:03:21.869 --> 01:03:24.429
just be where your feet are? So those are the

01:03:24.429 --> 01:03:27.150
four steps. And it's not check the box. It's

01:03:27.150 --> 01:03:30.610
be in it. Do each one of those with all of your

01:03:30.610 --> 01:03:34.230
essence and might. And that's the way to, I think,

01:03:34.289 --> 01:03:36.489
a great way to start the day. All right. Well,

01:03:36.590 --> 01:03:38.090
you've said that before about reaching out to

01:03:38.090 --> 01:03:40.170
the audience. So I would love it if you're OK,

01:03:40.329 --> 01:03:46.210
if you have the ability to do it in a time frame

01:03:46.210 --> 01:03:48.750
that suits you. You have the men and women now

01:03:48.750 --> 01:03:50.969
listening that truly want to find mastery. So

01:03:50.969 --> 01:03:52.510
we've been talking about some of these kind of

01:03:52.510 --> 01:03:54.690
piecemeal topics that I've been throwing at you.

01:03:55.309 --> 01:03:58.809
But myself, for example. My goal as a firefighter,

01:03:58.809 --> 01:04:00.769
as a medic, is to be the best damn firefighter

01:04:00.769 --> 01:04:02.929
and medic I can be. And again, it's not a competition.

01:04:03.090 --> 01:04:05.150
It's funny when people call themselves the best

01:04:05.150 --> 01:04:07.590
firefighter in the world or I've seen it before.

01:04:08.469 --> 01:04:10.610
The goal is to be the best version of ourselves.

01:04:11.150 --> 01:04:15.530
So what general guidelines would you give for

01:04:15.530 --> 01:04:18.889
anyone in a career that's listening to start

01:04:18.889 --> 01:04:25.190
pursuing mastery in their own field? It's really

01:04:25.190 --> 01:04:28.670
cool. Thank you for the opportunity to talk about

01:04:28.670 --> 01:04:35.050
it. First, I would go back to making sure that

01:04:35.050 --> 01:04:37.409
what you're investing your time and energy in

01:04:37.409 --> 01:04:41.489
is purposeful to you. So lining up some purpose.

01:04:41.630 --> 01:04:44.809
And that really begins with the philosophy. And

01:04:44.809 --> 01:04:48.530
having a great clarity about the guiding principles

01:04:48.530 --> 01:04:51.679
in your life. is a foundational point. Like what

01:04:51.679 --> 01:04:54.179
are the principles that are gonna help you shape

01:04:54.179 --> 01:04:56.440
your thoughts, your words, and your actions?

01:04:57.179 --> 01:05:00.159
And then the second part is like where are you

01:05:00.159 --> 01:05:03.400
going? You know, like who are you and where are

01:05:03.400 --> 01:05:07.340
you going is a big part of the early work. And

01:05:07.340 --> 01:05:11.599
then ridiculously investing in mastering your

01:05:11.599 --> 01:05:16.079
craft and mastering your mind. And both of those

01:05:16.079 --> 01:05:20.280
are daily practice. it is uncommon so it requires

01:05:20.280 --> 01:05:24.019
an uncommon commitment to both of those and it's

01:05:24.019 --> 01:05:26.099
not knowledge acquisition it's not how you train

01:05:26.099 --> 01:05:28.559
your mind it's not how you train your craft knowing

01:05:28.559 --> 01:05:31.860
more is not enough it is applying and training

01:05:31.860 --> 01:05:36.260
your craft in new ways being open to iterating

01:05:36.260 --> 01:05:40.320
in new ways and at the same same way with the

01:05:40.320 --> 01:05:42.679
mind is conditioning and training your mind do

01:05:42.679 --> 01:05:44.260
you have the skills the mental skills to become

01:05:44.260 --> 01:05:47.829
to generate confidence in any environment To

01:05:47.829 --> 01:05:50.429
focus deeply in the present moment in any condition,

01:05:50.570 --> 01:05:53.230
whether it was at one time boring or one time

01:05:53.230 --> 01:05:55.789
overwhelming. Do you know how to trust yourself

01:05:55.789 --> 01:06:00.630
in rugged and hostile environments? Optimism

01:06:00.630 --> 01:06:03.130
certainly is what we've talked about. And do

01:06:03.130 --> 01:06:05.110
you have the skill to focus your mind on what's

01:06:05.110 --> 01:06:07.949
in your control as opposed to all the noise of

01:06:07.949 --> 01:06:10.230
what's not in your control? Those are some basic,

01:06:10.250 --> 01:06:13.630
basic ones. And then rinse and repeat. I don't

01:06:13.630 --> 01:06:15.869
want to say that. No two moments are alike. No

01:06:15.869 --> 01:06:18.769
two days are alike. literally doing a second

01:06:18.769 --> 01:06:22.730
version of that um the following day and recovering

01:06:22.730 --> 01:06:25.250
in a world -class process so i know i've just

01:06:25.250 --> 01:06:28.389
said a lot but from a mental standpoint philosophy

01:06:28.389 --> 01:06:33.429
vision mental skills psychological framework

01:06:33.429 --> 01:06:36.030
the optimism control piece and then recovering

01:06:36.030 --> 01:06:38.989
in a world -class way so i that's where i would

01:06:38.989 --> 01:06:41.949
suggest people start and if you want more of

01:06:41.949 --> 01:06:44.670
that yet you probably need to do some reading

01:06:44.670 --> 01:06:48.340
around it But, you know, I love that you were

01:06:48.340 --> 01:06:49.760
listening to some of the podcasts we've been

01:06:49.760 --> 01:06:51.699
doing. So I love talking about this stuff. Sometimes

01:06:51.699 --> 01:06:53.480
I get into the weeds. Sometimes it's more conceptual.

01:06:53.920 --> 01:06:56.739
And we fired up a podcast that's been awesome

01:06:56.739 --> 01:07:00.719
called Finding Mastery. And, you know, this is

01:07:00.719 --> 01:07:02.400
exactly what we talk about as well on a regular

01:07:02.400 --> 01:07:04.940
basis. So there's some of that to be found there

01:07:04.940 --> 01:07:07.579
as well. Brilliant. Well, I want to talk about

01:07:07.579 --> 01:07:09.260
the podcast a little bit more in a moment. But

01:07:09.260 --> 01:07:11.739
the Compete to Create, is that something that

01:07:11.739 --> 01:07:15.980
people can now go? to the website and actually

01:07:15.980 --> 01:07:19.880
work on on building these skills themselves well

01:07:19.880 --> 01:07:22.360
compete to create is the business that coach

01:07:22.360 --> 01:07:24.280
Carol head coach of the Seattle Seahawks and

01:07:24.280 --> 01:07:27.400
I have created taking his intellectual property

01:07:27.400 --> 01:07:29.159
my intellectual property wrapping it together

01:07:29.159 --> 01:07:32.840
and creating an experience on how enterprise

01:07:32.840 --> 01:07:36.920
organizations can enhance their culture and train

01:07:36.920 --> 01:07:41.139
the minds of people inside of it and It's wonderful,

01:07:41.239 --> 01:07:43.760
but it's for enterprise folks, enterprise businesses,

01:07:43.920 --> 01:07:47.539
you know, top 100 companies. That was where we

01:07:47.539 --> 01:07:51.920
started. And now we're just getting to being

01:07:51.920 --> 01:07:56.539
able to roll that out to the rest of us. And

01:07:56.539 --> 01:07:59.780
we're excited. We're just in the pilot phase

01:07:59.780 --> 01:08:02.559
of seeing if we can get this technology to snap

01:08:02.559 --> 01:08:04.920
together properly. So we're in the pilot phase

01:08:04.920 --> 01:08:06.940
right now. We think by fall it's going to be

01:08:06.940 --> 01:08:11.849
available, but I'd encourage you. punch over

01:08:11.849 --> 01:08:14.530
to CompeteToCreate .net and there is a waiting

01:08:14.530 --> 01:08:16.170
list. If you want to get on the pilot waiting

01:08:16.170 --> 01:08:19.449
list, you can check into that and then also get

01:08:19.449 --> 01:08:21.130
on the waiting list. I know it sounds kind of

01:08:21.130 --> 01:08:24.010
crass to say waiting list, but we're not set

01:08:24.010 --> 01:08:27.270
up to do 10 million people. We're not set up

01:08:27.270 --> 01:08:30.689
to do that. So we're going to do waves of individuals

01:08:30.689 --> 01:08:33.909
as we roll it out, probably in the thousands,

01:08:34.050 --> 01:08:37.390
the tens of thousands. So these things, we found

01:08:37.390 --> 01:08:40.659
that they fill up really quickly. So that's CompeteToCreate

01:08:40.659 --> 01:08:43.039
.net. It's coming available. And then the podcast,

01:08:43.140 --> 01:08:47.659
FindingMastery .net are the two places that I'm

01:08:47.659 --> 01:08:50.380
spending a lot of time. Yeah, well, on to the

01:08:50.380 --> 01:08:53.279
podcast then. So I was introduced to you by,

01:08:53.359 --> 01:08:54.380
and I should have mentioned this at the beginning,

01:08:54.439 --> 01:08:58.069
by Peter Park. the trainer who trained Lance

01:08:58.069 --> 01:09:00.390
Armstrong amongst a whole host of other athletes.

01:09:00.590 --> 01:09:02.569
And when I always ask a question, which I will

01:09:02.569 --> 01:09:04.529
ask you at the end as well, which is, can you

01:09:04.529 --> 01:09:06.109
think of someone he would recommend to come on

01:09:06.109 --> 01:09:08.729
the show? You were the name that he recommended.

01:09:09.930 --> 01:09:12.470
And so when I delved into the podcast, having

01:09:12.470 --> 01:09:16.829
not come across yours before, I love the fact

01:09:16.829 --> 01:09:20.199
that you have. this smorgasbord of guests and

01:09:20.199 --> 01:09:21.739
and some of my favorite ones i've listened to

01:09:21.739 --> 01:09:24.840
so far with dr harry edwards um david goggins

01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:28.180
and vitor belfor all completely different backgrounds

01:09:28.180 --> 01:09:31.020
you got a military guy you got a um you know

01:09:31.020 --> 01:09:33.739
a member was he actually a member of the black

01:09:33.739 --> 01:09:35.640
panther i forget now i think he said he was wasn't

01:09:35.640 --> 01:09:38.460
he uh dr edwards yeah and then obviously vitor

01:09:38.460 --> 01:09:42.600
from ufc but again you you have this the spectrum

01:09:42.600 --> 01:09:45.279
of guests but you're finding these common denominators

01:09:45.279 --> 01:09:49.970
amongst them um so I guess I'm asking a question

01:09:49.970 --> 01:09:52.350
after doing a huge explanation, but have you

01:09:52.350 --> 01:09:54.529
found any common threads now with all these podcasts

01:09:54.529 --> 01:09:56.770
that you've done, but there's some key common

01:09:56.770 --> 01:09:59.550
denominators of these successful men and women

01:09:59.550 --> 01:10:02.369
that you've had so far? Yeah, I haven't pushed

01:10:02.369 --> 01:10:04.590
it through the right machine learning to see

01:10:04.590 --> 01:10:07.409
what the trends actually are. So anything I'm

01:10:07.409 --> 01:10:09.760
going to say right now is totally biased. based

01:10:09.760 --> 01:10:12.680
on the recency bias, what I've just heard from

01:10:12.680 --> 01:10:17.739
the theme, or what I want to say. So I want to

01:10:17.739 --> 01:10:19.779
reserve that right now. I haven't pushed this

01:10:19.779 --> 01:10:21.420
through the right machine learning process to

01:10:21.420 --> 01:10:23.619
know exactly what we have. And it's overwhelming,

01:10:24.020 --> 01:10:27.739
really. There's just too much insight and wisdom

01:10:27.739 --> 01:10:30.880
and shared knowledge that I can do that properly

01:10:30.880 --> 01:10:34.560
right now. I'd like to say that people are...

01:10:35.479 --> 01:10:38.060
are practicing mindfulness and and are invested

01:10:38.060 --> 01:10:40.039
in training their mind but you know i don't know

01:10:40.039 --> 01:10:44.000
yet and so um i want to reserve judgment yeah

01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:46.560
right because i've noticed that one thing that

01:10:46.560 --> 01:10:48.899
uh i've seen in the guests i'm just about to

01:10:48.899 --> 01:10:51.859
hit 100 in a couple of weeks so not not a huge

01:10:51.859 --> 01:10:55.680
catalog but it's It's the optimism, definitely,

01:10:55.819 --> 01:10:57.960
but the gratitude as well. Some of these men

01:10:57.960 --> 01:10:59.560
and women have been through, I mean, literally

01:10:59.560 --> 01:11:01.460
to hell and back. I had a guy called Ishmael

01:11:01.460 --> 01:11:04.359
Bay on the show a few weeks ago who was a child

01:11:04.359 --> 01:11:08.550
soldier in Sierra Leone. And got rescued by UNICEF

01:11:08.550 --> 01:11:11.369
and now is an advocate. He works for UNICEF rescuing

01:11:11.369 --> 01:11:14.430
boy soldiers. So you talk about forgiveness and

01:11:14.430 --> 01:11:17.670
kindness and gratitude. But I see that in some

01:11:17.670 --> 01:11:19.810
of these people. And again, I'm sure that's completely

01:11:19.810 --> 01:11:23.729
related to having control of the mind to create

01:11:23.729 --> 01:11:27.369
that mindset in the first place. Awesome. And

01:11:27.369 --> 01:11:31.310
Peter Park is a legend. So I'm honored that he

01:11:31.310 --> 01:11:34.289
would recognize and suggest that I come on. So

01:11:34.289 --> 01:11:36.899
I'm going to thank him. for uh for that like

01:11:36.899 --> 01:11:39.479
he's so good at what he does yeah no and it was

01:11:39.479 --> 01:11:41.739
funny i was talking to dr eric goodman i don't

01:11:41.739 --> 01:11:43.399
know if you know him from foundation training

01:11:43.399 --> 01:11:45.960
um who he co -authored their first book with

01:11:45.960 --> 01:11:50.520
um and peter was literally supposed to be evacuated

01:11:50.520 --> 01:11:52.880
from his home for the mudslides that they had

01:11:52.880 --> 01:11:55.710
in california a couple months ago And I told

01:11:55.710 --> 01:11:57.630
him, well, we can just reschedule the interview.

01:11:57.890 --> 01:11:59.270
And he was like, no, no, we're fine. We'll just

01:11:59.270 --> 01:12:02.050
do the interview and then I'll leave. So he was,

01:12:02.149 --> 01:12:04.609
yeah, such a nice guy. I know many people that

01:12:04.609 --> 01:12:08.510
would do that, but. Sounds like him. Yes, yes.

01:12:08.789 --> 01:12:10.489
All right. Well, I just want to do some wrap

01:12:10.489 --> 01:12:12.329
up questions then. You've been so generous with

01:12:12.329 --> 01:12:14.949
your time. First one, I always like to delve

01:12:14.949 --> 01:12:17.229
into people's minds. Is there a book that you

01:12:17.229 --> 01:12:19.949
love to recommend to people? Can be about what

01:12:19.949 --> 01:12:21.489
we talked about today or something completely

01:12:21.489 --> 01:12:26.090
different? Yeah, you know. I think that if you've

01:12:26.090 --> 01:12:28.250
got a spiritual framework, reinvest in that book.

01:12:28.670 --> 01:12:32.090
Whatever that spiritual framework is, I think

01:12:32.090 --> 01:12:34.930
is important to investigate. And then I'd say

01:12:34.930 --> 01:12:37.270
go check out one of the other important spiritual

01:12:37.270 --> 01:12:40.529
framework texts. And so when I'm talking about

01:12:40.529 --> 01:12:43.289
the Quran, the Bible, I'm talking about the Tao

01:12:43.289 --> 01:12:46.510
Te Ching. Go check out one of the other spiritual

01:12:46.510 --> 01:12:49.130
practices and see what they're about. The most

01:12:49.130 --> 01:12:51.069
influential books in the world are the spiritual

01:12:51.069 --> 01:12:53.500
texts. So why do we why are we always looking

01:12:53.500 --> 01:12:55.699
for the next hot thing off the shelf? You know,

01:12:55.699 --> 01:12:58.920
like I don't get that. And so I there's there's

01:12:58.920 --> 01:13:01.539
next hot books off the shelf that I a lot of

01:13:01.539 --> 01:13:03.539
my friends have written and, you know, that are

01:13:03.539 --> 01:13:06.079
cool to read for sure. But when you really want

01:13:06.079 --> 01:13:08.920
to get down to it, go invest in a spiritual text

01:13:08.920 --> 01:13:12.020
that's not yours. Check out what they have to

01:13:12.020 --> 01:13:14.300
say, you know, see what they're talking about.

01:13:14.640 --> 01:13:16.439
And it doesn't mean that you're going to go to

01:13:16.439 --> 01:13:19.319
hell or I mean, there's the old ways of thinking,

01:13:19.380 --> 01:13:22.359
like, go look. And I love the Tao Te Ching. I

01:13:22.359 --> 01:13:24.439
think it's amazingly complicated and beautiful,

01:13:24.619 --> 01:13:29.220
which is the inspired text for Taoism. So are

01:13:29.220 --> 01:13:31.640
you suggesting that people prior to our generation

01:13:31.640 --> 01:13:36.079
had wisdom too? Yeah, and I'm wondering about

01:13:36.079 --> 01:13:39.500
our modern day wisdoms. Yes, yes, yes. I have

01:13:39.500 --> 01:13:43.159
the same observation. All right, so next thing

01:13:43.159 --> 01:13:46.439
then. Is there a movie and or a documentary that

01:13:46.439 --> 01:13:52.279
you love? You know, I'm not great at this game.

01:13:52.760 --> 01:13:56.279
You know, it's like I just I scan my mind, my

01:13:56.279 --> 01:13:58.899
memory, and all that comes up really are the

01:13:58.899 --> 01:14:01.699
ones that I've just recently watched. So I'm

01:14:01.699 --> 01:14:03.420
not I'm not the right person to answer that.

01:14:03.500 --> 01:14:05.079
You know, I'm going to say Star Wars because

01:14:05.079 --> 01:14:07.560
it was influential when I was a kid. And I love

01:14:07.560 --> 01:14:09.460
what they've done with the hero's journey in

01:14:09.460 --> 01:14:11.899
those books. But just about every Pixar movie

01:14:11.899 --> 01:14:14.260
has just done a great job with the hero's journey

01:14:14.260 --> 01:14:16.960
as well. So I'm just not really good at that.

01:14:17.369 --> 01:14:20.029
No, that's fine. That's a great answer. All right.

01:14:20.029 --> 01:14:21.909
So the one I mentioned before, is there a person

01:14:21.909 --> 01:14:23.729
that you would recommend to come on this show

01:14:23.729 --> 01:14:25.710
to talk to the first responders and soldiers

01:14:25.710 --> 01:14:29.569
of the world? Yeah. Is there a person? There's

01:14:29.569 --> 01:14:32.109
got to be someone that you might not be familiar

01:14:32.109 --> 01:14:34.989
with because he's not big time in social media

01:14:34.989 --> 01:14:37.430
that hasn't written a book. He's a local community

01:14:37.430 --> 01:14:40.210
member in the professional sport world that is

01:14:40.210 --> 01:14:43.310
really different and sees the world differently

01:14:43.310 --> 01:14:46.069
and is. Fun to be around. He's a community member

01:14:46.069 --> 01:14:49.430
of mine and he's got a lot to say on tribe. And

01:14:49.430 --> 01:14:52.270
I think it'd be fun for you to connect with Troll

01:14:52.270 --> 01:14:56.449
Subin. And that'll be a new name for you and

01:14:56.449 --> 01:14:58.890
your community. Excellent. I love that. That's

01:14:58.890 --> 01:15:01.909
exactly what I want. The gold nuggets that people

01:15:01.909 --> 01:15:04.710
don't know about. So thank you. So my very last

01:15:04.710 --> 01:15:06.390
one before we talk about where we can find all

01:15:06.390 --> 01:15:11.210
your work is what do you do to decompress? Yeah,

01:15:11.250 --> 01:15:14.489
that's a cool question. As a trained psychologist,

01:15:14.590 --> 01:15:16.470
licensed as a professional, one of the things

01:15:16.470 --> 01:15:19.250
that they taught us early on is, so I only see

01:15:19.250 --> 01:15:22.470
two clients a month now. And when I spend time

01:15:22.470 --> 01:15:24.729
with a client, I spend eight hours with them.

01:15:24.949 --> 01:15:28.750
And it's super intense. And so I don't have that

01:15:28.750 --> 01:15:31.850
rhythm where I see six, seven clients a day.

01:15:32.010 --> 01:15:34.149
But one of the things that they taught us early

01:15:34.149 --> 01:15:38.069
on was after you do deep, intense work, do something

01:15:38.069 --> 01:15:42.359
to relax, to reset. And maybe you just go to

01:15:42.359 --> 01:15:44.100
the bathroom, wash your hands, take a couple

01:15:44.100 --> 01:15:46.800
breaths, you know, and just kind of gather yourself.

01:15:47.260 --> 01:15:49.960
So I don't have this big thing at the end of

01:15:49.960 --> 01:15:52.260
the day that I do, you know, to shut her down

01:15:52.260 --> 01:15:55.699
or whatever. But I have this consistent monitoring

01:15:55.699 --> 01:16:01.600
of how I'm spending my energy. And so it's this

01:16:01.600 --> 01:16:03.760
it's this really kind of fluid. I feel like I'm

01:16:03.760 --> 01:16:05.720
in a river and I can tell when I'm caught in

01:16:05.720 --> 01:16:07.279
an eddy and I can tell when I'm heading over

01:16:07.279 --> 01:16:09.850
to the banks. too fast and i'm going to get smashed

01:16:09.850 --> 01:16:12.149
up i can tell when i'm you know kind of in rough

01:16:12.149 --> 01:16:14.729
seas or rough not rough seas but rough waters

01:16:14.729 --> 01:16:17.909
and how to like find my balance in that moment

01:16:17.909 --> 01:16:21.029
be a little bit more still so it's this continual

01:16:21.029 --> 01:16:23.810
awareness and adjustment this fine -tuning adjustment

01:16:23.810 --> 01:16:26.529
on a regular basis mapping the conditions that

01:16:26.529 --> 01:16:30.329
are happening to and finally tuned as i can be

01:16:30.329 --> 01:16:34.149
to how i want to be as a man so it's a it's kind

01:16:34.149 --> 01:16:38.739
of a consistent modulation if you will and that

01:16:38.739 --> 01:16:41.180
sounds super technical and nerdy and i am a nerd

01:16:41.180 --> 01:16:43.760
but like that that's how i do it now i love that

01:16:43.760 --> 01:16:45.300
that's actually very different than most of the

01:16:45.300 --> 01:16:47.899
answers i get but it totally lines up with what

01:16:47.899 --> 01:16:49.239
we've been talking about if you're totally in

01:16:49.239 --> 01:16:50.880
the moment then that's when you would be start

01:16:50.880 --> 01:16:55.500
fixing imbalances that you're aware of absolutely

01:16:55.500 --> 01:16:58.060
okay so the very last one then so um you have

01:16:58.060 --> 01:16:59.859
a book as well finding mastery and i apologize

01:16:59.859 --> 01:17:03.239
for not mentioning that earlier um so where can

01:17:03.239 --> 01:17:05.789
people find your book Um, and then the other,

01:17:05.829 --> 01:17:08.130
the websites that you have your work on and if

01:17:08.130 --> 01:17:10.010
there's one main one that everything tethers

01:17:10.010 --> 01:17:13.529
off. Yeah, cool. Thank you for that. The book

01:17:13.529 --> 01:17:17.909
is actually not in print yet. So you've heard

01:17:17.909 --> 01:17:19.689
about the book because I've talked about it,

01:17:19.710 --> 01:17:22.829
but I'm premature. It's written and we're just

01:17:22.829 --> 01:17:25.329
shopping it right now to the, to the right places.

01:17:25.649 --> 01:17:28.729
And so we think fall, like we're going to try

01:17:28.729 --> 01:17:31.310
to time it up in the fall with the release of

01:17:31.310 --> 01:17:33.649
our open platform, mindset training platform.

01:17:34.300 --> 01:17:37.720
So it's not available yet. That's why you didn't

01:17:37.720 --> 01:17:40.960
know about it. Okay, great. I feel better. Yeah,

01:17:41.039 --> 01:17:43.260
no worries on that. So I've talked about it,

01:17:43.279 --> 01:17:48.180
but it's not out yet. And so the two places,

01:17:48.239 --> 01:17:50.640
websites, social media is great. I'm loving it.

01:17:50.720 --> 01:17:53.000
I'm having a good time with it. And so Instagram

01:17:53.000 --> 01:17:57.920
is Finding Mastery. Twitter is at Michael Gervais,

01:17:57.960 --> 01:18:03.420
G -E -R -V -A -I -S. LinkedIn is the same. Let's

01:18:03.420 --> 01:18:05.699
see, where else is there? There's Facebook. We've

01:18:05.699 --> 01:18:09.699
built a community called Finding Mastery Tribe.

01:18:10.060 --> 01:18:13.960
So findingmastery .net forward slash tribe. And

01:18:13.960 --> 01:18:17.680
then also competetocreate .net. Those are the

01:18:17.680 --> 01:18:20.859
places. Excellent. Well, thank you so much again.

01:18:21.020 --> 01:18:24.819
I know it's not the community that you normally

01:18:24.819 --> 01:18:28.840
reach out to, but the... The mental component,

01:18:29.060 --> 01:18:31.460
the psychology of the firefighter, the police

01:18:31.460 --> 01:18:35.279
officer, the paramedic is an area that we don't

01:18:35.279 --> 01:18:37.180
explore that much either. And we're very much

01:18:37.180 --> 01:18:40.060
in the, I would say, the 80s and 90s with a lot

01:18:40.060 --> 01:18:42.880
of our education, whether it's physical or mental.

01:18:43.020 --> 01:18:45.000
So I really, really appreciate taking the time

01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:47.760
to reach out to us. And even though you were

01:18:47.760 --> 01:18:50.279
saying that you were on a soapbox or waffling,

01:18:50.420 --> 01:18:52.279
I disagree 100%. I think that everything you

01:18:52.279 --> 01:18:54.739
said today has been gold. And I know that people

01:18:54.739 --> 01:18:56.359
are going to get a lot from this. So thank you

01:18:56.359 --> 01:18:59.029
again. No, no, no. Thank you. And I'll tell you

01:18:59.029 --> 01:19:02.930
what, my appreciation, my rich appreciation for

01:19:02.930 --> 01:19:08.289
men and women who serve is, I can't say enough.

01:19:08.449 --> 01:19:11.729
So I'm grateful to be included in your community.

01:19:11.770 --> 01:19:14.550
Thank you for doing it. Thank you for the commitment

01:19:14.550 --> 01:19:17.510
you make to the rest of us. And I have such a

01:19:17.510 --> 01:19:21.310
deep appreciation for military as well as, you

01:19:21.310 --> 01:19:25.569
know, armed forces as well as all of those community

01:19:25.569 --> 01:19:27.899
minded people who serve us. and that you know

01:19:27.899 --> 01:19:29.399
who do we call when we're in trouble we call

01:19:29.399 --> 01:19:31.159
you guys so thank you