WEBVTT

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As

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always, my name is James Geering, and this week

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I have an incredibly powerful episode for you.

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Jennifer Hunt Murty spent over 20 years as a

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paralegal before founding the Ocala Gazette,

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one of our local newspapers. And she has become

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an incredibly important voice when it comes to

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pulling the curtain back on deficiencies in our

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community, especially in the first responder

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professions and prisons. So in this conversation,

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we discuss a host of topics from her journey

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into the world of law, what drove her into the

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world of journalism, the pervasive decline of

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first responder professions when leaders are

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not held accountable, our 911 dispatch center,

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uncovering the deaths in our jails, and so much

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more. Now, before we get to this incredible conversation,

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as I say every week, please just take a moment.

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Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe

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to the show, leave feedback, and leave a rating.

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Every single five -star rating truly does elevate

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this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find. And this is a free library of

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well over 1 ,100 episodes now. So all I ask in

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return is that you help share these incredible

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men and women's stories so I can get them to

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every single person on planet Earth who needs

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to hear them. So with that being said, I introduce

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to you Jennifer Hunt Murty. Enjoy. Well, Jennifer,

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I want to start by saying thank you so much for

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taking the time and coming to my home and doing

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this interview in person today. It's an honor.

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So for people listening, if they were to find

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you in your normal habitat, where would they

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find you? Where on the planet? Ocala, Florida.

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I am a journalist that pretty much works out

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of my home, but you can find me all over town.

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Pretty much. I think that's how we met is at

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an event. And I'm grateful to have people like

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you that I can call when I'm delivering journalism

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on public safety, you know, as a sounding board.

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Absolutely. We're going to take a deep dive into

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that. I want to start at the very beginning of

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your journey. We were talking before we hit record.

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And you've got a very kind of uniform -centric

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kind of ladder as far as your family tree. So

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tell me where you were born and tell me a little

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bit about your family dynamic, what your parents

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did, how many siblings. Okay. I was born in Washington,

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D .C. My parents met on my father's, on an airplane,

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coming back from the Vietnam War. They got married

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and had three children, but it was very difficult.

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My father was one of, he was a Marine in the

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1st Battalion, so they were called the Walking

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Dead. He did two tours. He came back with severe

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PTSD. As a child, I realized something wasn't

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right. He was always kind, but there were, things

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that didn't make sense. And I know it was really

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hard on my mother because my father was a loving,

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kind person, but there were just certain things

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like he couldn't stay in the same place very

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long. He, you know, he was never violent towards

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us, but if somebody else got in his face, you

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know, so in time they ended up splitting and

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my father still alive and still struggles quite

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a bit. His father was injured in World War II,

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invading Italy. So there's generations of dealing

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with PTSD and the effect it can have on a family.

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So I'm very sensitive to also what first responders

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go through with their family units and dealing

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with all of it. I've had some World War Two veterans

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on the show and the way they were received in

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the 40s versus the way our Vietnam generation

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were could not be more opposite. And every single

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Vietnam vet that I've had on the show has said

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the same thing, like spat on. One of them was

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wounded and literally waiting to be evac'd when

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he got to the US and was urinated on. I mean,

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just absolutely disgusting. And then you think

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about that mental health impact that. You may

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or may not have been drafted. Then you go over.

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You probably at some point, I would imagine,

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have a feeling that maybe this war wasn't what

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you were told it was going to be. You know, you

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lose people. You do things that you have to do

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to survive. Then you come back and then your

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tribe, your nation, has turned their back on

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you as well. And I just can't imagine how crushing

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that must have been for the men and women that

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were over there. My dad was 17 and his parents

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had to sign for him to go. So he volunteered.

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And then volunteered for another tour. He had

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survivor's guilt, he told me later. But when

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he did come back, he entered law enforcement

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in Washington, D .C. He was a canine officer.

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So I think he did that probably for about five

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years. And then it was just too much. And was

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he able to transition to another career after

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that? Or was that pretty much kind of like the

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end of the road career wise? He became a serial

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entrepreneur. And there were months at a time

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where he'd be in another country. We wouldn't

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hear from him. So it was a rocky road. I'm really

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proud of my brother seeing him change the patterns,

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you know, of our family. He's raising his boys

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the right way. Well, the book I just wrote last

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year kind of takes a deep dive into that, into

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generational trauma. And I think this is something

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that we're starting to realize now is we're all

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grandchildren or great -grandchildren of the

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World War II generation. And we've romanticized

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their homecoming, that they just rolled up their

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sleeves and they got back to work. But you actually

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hear on occasion these actual men or, you know,

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at least children, grandchildren of them. And

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granddad wasn't okay. Granddad was far from okay.

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And then he's raising the Vietnam generation.

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So they, you know, grew up in that household

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and then they go off and add trauma to trauma,

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you know, and you have this. So I think it's

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incredible when you hear that, that people have

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identified it and said, I'm not going to let

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that domino fall on my child. I think it was

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probably in the 80s, like late 80s, that I, as

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a child, first heard of the term PTSD. And many

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people were discounting it. And I remember feeling

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frustrated, like, No, my dad's definitely, you

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know, got something going on. I'm so glad we've

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come to the point where we are now, where there

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is more mainstream understanding of the impact

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it can have. It's interesting because when you

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actually reflect, there was, you know, shell

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shock. A soldier's heart, a thousand -yard stare.

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I mean, all these terms for PTSD. It's been there,

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you know, since the beginning of combat, I'm

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sure. But it's bizarre. You know, the 80s especially

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is probably horrendous for the Vietnam generation

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because then you have these bodybuilders portraying

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soldiers. And, you know, John Wayne and all these

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other people that never saw combat that projected

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this kind of faux stoicism. That then created

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even less of an opportunity for these people

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that were struggling to actually reach out and

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be vulnerable. Yeah, that's true. So what about

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in that your childhood as you're going through

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the school ages, what were you doing as far as

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exercise, hobbies, those kind of things? So I

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was raised very religious. My mother, that's

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how she powered us through it. So we were at

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church three times a week and volunteering a

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lot. We were not involved in sports at all. So

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I didn't have that normal upbringing exposure

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to those things. Somebody asked a while back

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how I became competitive when I didn't have the

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exposure, but it worked out okay. So what about

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career aspirations? What were you dreaming of

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becoming when you were in school? I wanted to

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be a missionary. My aunt and uncle were missionaries

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in Africa, and I thought serving. in that capacity

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would be the right path for me. But then a few

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changes happened and I got very interested in

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the legal field. So I started college a little

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late, not right after high school, and went while

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working full time for a legal studies degree.

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And that would probably be my first career, 20

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years as a paralegal. working mostly for trial

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attorneys. One of my thoughts was to go to law

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school. And I probably regret that I didn't do

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that next. But instead, I transitioned to this

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career, which is journalism. So when you're in

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those 20 years, as you walk through, what was

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some of the issues or injustices that you started

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seeing systemically? Well, when I moved to Marion

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County, which was about 17 years ago, I already

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had probably about 10 years under my belt in

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the field. And I ended up working on some very

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interesting cases that really gave me a window

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into what the local landscape is like. In fact,

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in hindsight, when I interviewed, the attorney

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asked, do you have any problem working on a case

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against the local sheriff? At the time, it was

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Ed Dean. And I was like, no, no big deal. Why

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would I have a problem with that? I understood

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as time went on why I might have a problem with

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that. But that case, which was covered in the

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news, it was a federal case about a young man

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who was killed by an officer and a canine. And

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investigating that death. It was before body

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cam footage, but OPD had just put video cams

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on their cars and they responded to it also and

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moved the car so that there was some images.

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That trial gave me a window. I mean, things came

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out at trial, like the medics being called off.

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I mean, so many crazy things happened. It was

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eye opening. Because I usually was helping mostly

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in civil cases. I was not involved in criminal

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cases at all. So that was my first window. And

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in those type of claims, you have to point out

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that there's a policy or practice in place that's

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facilitating violations, constitutional violations.

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And in this particular case, I was allowed to

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go through. a ton of internal affairs reports,

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things like that, that we believe showed that

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the sheriff was turning a blind eye to some of

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the actions of his officers. Now, you know, fast

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forward 10 years, and I'm in this role. And I

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think to myself, I bet you nobody's gone through

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all those internal affairs in the past 10 years.

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It's one of those things I would like to do one

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of these days. It's on my list. What was the

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backstory of the things that were broken that

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led to that death then? Lack of accountability.

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I believe that the entry of body cams really

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are keeping people honest a little bit more.

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In this particular case, it was an officer that,

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who knows, maybe had PTSD from something else,

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but went unhinged. He killed this. I don't know

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how else nice to say, but he killed him with

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his walkie talkie hitting him in the head and

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then let his dog chew on him. It wasn't pretty.

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At that time, because when you look, for example,

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at Compton, obviously that's a part of the country

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that's known for violence in the 80s. You see

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systemically how you had these wars between gangs

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and then law enforcement and law enforcement

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almost became. a pseudo rival gang there was

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you know this back and forth and again they were

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fighting for their lives and you just created

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this absolute vicious circle of violence and

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you know at times then obviously corruption and

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and covering up things and obviously the rodney

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king etc etc when you look back at that time

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in marion county what was the other side of the

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coin were were you know law enforcement fearing

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for their lives a lot or was this an isolated

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incident in an otherwise not too dangerous part

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of the country I'm glad you used the word gang

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because I would have hesitated to use it. I think

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that at the time, crime wasn't very bad in Marion

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County. I think that there are just possibly

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then and now a group of officers that are just

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a little more. Quick to draw. And instead of

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calming each other, if one sees the other getting

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out of line, they look the other way. They don't.

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And that lack of accountability, even within

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these units, is troubling. It's where the public.

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is very vulnerable, and I don't think they understand

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how vulnerable they are. They tend to think,

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well, I'm lawful. I'm never going to have a negative

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interaction with a first responder. However,

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it happens. People are falsely arrested, and

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you could end up in a very dangerous jail, which

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ours is very dangerous. There's very real implications

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on your record. It's something leaders in law

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enforcement need to set the tone and give their

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men and women accountability and also help. Not

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everybody is raised with the same core values.

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And I don't know how you teach those or if you

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can, but there does need to be a greater emphasis

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put on. You know, the words that they have on

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the side of their cart, integrity, honesty. Who's

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policing that? Absolutely. As you transition

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them out of the paralegal profession, what was

00:15:55.929 --> 00:15:59.909
it that even drew you to journalism? Love of

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community. I moved to Ocala during sort of a

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hard time. Because I was having maybe a crisis

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of faith. I told you I was raised very religious.

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And I was leaving what I had done. I was 32 years

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old. I was leaving what I pretty much based my

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entire life around. End of a marriage. And I'm

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living in a town I really don't know that many

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people. And I have to say, this town gave me

00:16:31.610 --> 00:16:38.200
home. I met wonderful people who accepted. me

00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:41.940
into the community. So at some point, I just,

00:16:42.019 --> 00:16:46.019
I fell in love with it. I fell in love. I'm very

00:16:46.019 --> 00:16:49.580
protective. I'm the oldest in my family. So when

00:16:49.580 --> 00:16:54.440
I would watch meetings, and I often would for

00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:57.059
my job, government meetings, so I would understand

00:16:57.059 --> 00:17:03.039
what was going on. Needs, particularly related

00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:09.099
to infrastructure. kept arising and when the

00:17:09.099 --> 00:17:11.440
local newspaper started laying off journalists

00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.319
it really became acute for me like huh there's

00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:18.940
not that many left this is not good because it's

00:17:18.940 --> 00:17:22.940
easier than for them to to hide things and so

00:17:22.940 --> 00:17:26.640
I started doing research on what it would take

00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:31.599
and here we are five years later I can't believe

00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:34.319
we've made it five years actually it's it's been

00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:39.769
uh The hardest thing I've ever done. When you

00:17:39.769 --> 00:17:43.130
look back before we get to current times, what

00:17:43.130 --> 00:17:47.369
have you observed as far as the evolution or

00:17:47.369 --> 00:17:52.650
devolution of journalism in general? I think

00:17:52.650 --> 00:17:56.329
that there's a disconnect in that because of

00:17:56.329 --> 00:17:58.990
social, there's so much information out there.

00:17:59.029 --> 00:18:02.289
There's so much media out there. But not all

00:18:02.289 --> 00:18:05.049
media is journalism. Journalism is independent

00:18:05.049 --> 00:18:09.910
fact -finding. It's delivery of information that

00:18:09.910 --> 00:18:14.349
is constrained by certain ethical considerations.

00:18:14.829 --> 00:18:17.569
There's editors involved that are questioning

00:18:17.569 --> 00:18:22.730
your fact -finding, your source material. It's

00:18:22.730 --> 00:18:26.829
a lot more rigorous, and we have less of it.

00:18:26.849 --> 00:18:29.529
Even though we have more media, we have less

00:18:29.529 --> 00:18:35.789
journalism. the things that I think is really

00:18:35.789 --> 00:18:40.009
at stake is media literacy. So people are having

00:18:40.009 --> 00:18:44.710
a hard time understanding what is independently

00:18:44.710 --> 00:18:49.250
sourced information and what could be delivered

00:18:49.250 --> 00:18:52.789
like news, but possibly from another country

00:18:52.789 --> 00:18:58.930
trying to cause discord. So that's really alarming

00:18:58.930 --> 00:19:02.170
to me. But when it's local journalism, like what

00:19:02.170 --> 00:19:06.799
we do, The people know us. They see us. There's

00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:09.859
more trust. They know all I have is my credibility.

00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:12.119
And I have to be able to look at them in the

00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:14.619
face when I see them. They know I want to get

00:19:14.619 --> 00:19:20.779
the story right. So journalism, local journalism,

00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:23.579
there's less of it. I believe it's almost more

00:19:23.579 --> 00:19:26.480
important than any other kind of journalism because

00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:31.559
it has the ability to give people information

00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:38.750
that impacts their daily life. Uh, so it's gotten

00:19:38.750 --> 00:19:43.930
worse, but there are people like myself all over

00:19:43.930 --> 00:19:46.690
the country trying to really bootstrap it and

00:19:46.690 --> 00:19:49.509
do as much as they can with a little, I wish

00:19:49.509 --> 00:19:51.710
I had a team of 50, like the star banner did,

00:19:51.829 --> 00:19:57.549
you know, 20 years ago. If I did now, why, why

00:19:57.549 --> 00:20:01.259
not 50 anymore? What changed to change the landscape

00:20:01.259 --> 00:20:07.059
there? Funding mechanisms. Previously, pre -social

00:20:07.059 --> 00:20:11.460
media, if you needed to get the word out on something,

00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:14.579
you bought advertising in your local newspaper.

00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:18.420
Now people can just run ads on social media.

00:20:18.500 --> 00:20:25.140
So all of that revenue has gone away. Also, there

00:20:25.140 --> 00:20:32.269
has been a shift. And a nice way to put it, but

00:20:32.269 --> 00:20:38.109
trying to streamline operations and really take

00:20:38.109 --> 00:20:42.670
away local assets by huge corporations that own

00:20:42.670 --> 00:20:45.690
newspapers all over the country. And what they're

00:20:45.690 --> 00:20:51.089
trying to do is put as little local journalism

00:20:51.089 --> 00:20:55.670
out there and just share stories from across

00:20:55.670 --> 00:20:58.960
the state. Because it saves them money. They

00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:01.099
don't have to employ journalists as many that

00:21:01.099 --> 00:21:06.119
way. So because of the corporate structure and

00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:09.539
the fact that they're owned by hedge funds, so

00:21:09.539 --> 00:21:15.119
at their heart, I don't even know if they know

00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:17.079
any of these communities or care about these

00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:22.059
communities. So in our particular case, I'm local.

00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:25.279
I love my community. I want it to succeed, even

00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:27.140
when I have to criticize it or report something

00:21:27.140 --> 00:21:29.799
that's unfavorable. It's coming from a place

00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:32.599
of let's fix it. You know, let's do the best.

00:21:33.180 --> 00:21:36.819
A corporation doesn't have that level of heart.

00:21:38.339 --> 00:21:40.579
I shared a video. I've shared it many times now,

00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:45.359
but it's it talks about exactly what you're talking

00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:47.690
about. and there's all these clips. It starts

00:21:47.690 --> 00:21:49.670
off with one, then it goes to two, then it goes

00:21:49.670 --> 00:21:51.769
to four, then it goes to 16, and the screen gets

00:21:51.769 --> 00:21:54.910
bigger and bigger. The people get smaller and

00:21:54.910 --> 00:21:56.829
smaller, but it's all these news stations from

00:21:56.829 --> 00:22:00.730
around the country supposedly talking local news

00:22:00.730 --> 00:22:06.009
with the exact same script. And it's like Orwellian,

00:22:06.049 --> 00:22:08.009
you know? It's just terrifying, but it really

00:22:08.009 --> 00:22:10.869
underlines the fact that, like you said, many,

00:22:11.670 --> 00:22:13.970
many times there isn't journalism. It's just...

00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:16.380
You know, it's television. And I've said this,

00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:19.019
I mean, Fox, CNN, these two groups of people

00:22:19.019 --> 00:22:22.059
will argue about their opposing news. And it's

00:22:22.059 --> 00:22:24.160
like, it's the same exact blueprint. That's not

00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:26.720
news. You know, I've always said this. The screen

00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:31.000
is split into four people who argue about opinions.

00:22:31.339 --> 00:22:34.039
They're not disseminating news at all. It's just

00:22:34.039 --> 00:22:36.460
an opinion show. No different than The View or

00:22:36.460 --> 00:22:39.279
Jerry Springer. I agree with you. I agree with

00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:45.230
you. It's funny because if... I think there's

00:22:45.230 --> 00:22:47.109
also a disconnect with people understanding what

00:22:47.109 --> 00:22:53.529
news is an opinion. And so a lot of times I'll

00:22:53.529 --> 00:22:57.289
have people, and I realize sometimes we're in

00:22:57.289 --> 00:23:01.170
our own bubble when it comes to understanding

00:23:01.170 --> 00:23:04.210
how we're being perceived. But I have a lot of

00:23:04.210 --> 00:23:06.289
people wonder, like, what are your intentions?

00:23:06.650 --> 00:23:08.970
Why are you choosing to give us this information?

00:23:09.650 --> 00:23:11.849
Especially if it's unsavory information we don't

00:23:11.849 --> 00:23:16.000
want to hear. What's your intentions? So I'm

00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:17.579
trying to get out and talk to the community a

00:23:17.579 --> 00:23:20.039
little bit more about that and tell everybody,

00:23:20.220 --> 00:23:24.900
hey, you have a problem with a story. You're

00:23:24.900 --> 00:23:27.960
wondering why we focused on it, why we're putting

00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:29.779
it out there. Call us and ask. We'll give you

00:23:29.779 --> 00:23:32.180
all the background, the months it took, you know,

00:23:32.180 --> 00:23:34.720
to get the information together. That's something

00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:38.880
you can only get with local outlets. And I'm

00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:41.720
hoping that there will be a resurgence. and people

00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:45.619
prioritizing. I had a guest on the show, Larry

00:23:45.619 --> 00:23:49.240
Doyle, who was a really trusted journalist back

00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:53.140
in the, you know, 70s, 80s, 60s, 70s, 80s, I

00:23:53.140 --> 00:23:56.660
think. And he was the first person to interview

00:23:56.660 --> 00:23:59.460
Nelson Mandela after he was released from Robben

00:23:59.460 --> 00:24:02.519
Island. So that, I think, speaks volumes. And

00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:03.940
I asked Larry, we've done a couple of interviews

00:24:03.940 --> 00:24:05.759
now, he's actually ironically moved to Gainesville.

00:24:05.859 --> 00:24:08.519
He's just up the road. But I asked him, you know,

00:24:08.539 --> 00:24:11.019
what happened to the news? Because I grew up

00:24:11.019 --> 00:24:13.420
as a young boy with the BBC, and I would argue

00:24:13.420 --> 00:24:15.819
back then it was very, very matter -of -fact.

00:24:15.900 --> 00:24:19.619
This is what's going on. And he said that up

00:24:19.619 --> 00:24:22.980
to a certain point, the television networks would

00:24:22.980 --> 00:24:24.960
be owned by a corporation, and the corporation

00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:26.940
would have other things that would make money,

00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:30.180
and they would fund reporting, fund journalism.

00:24:30.380 --> 00:24:32.859
They'd have an amazing budget to really go there

00:24:32.859 --> 00:24:35.819
and embed and learn the story and report the

00:24:35.819 --> 00:24:37.940
way it was supposed to be. And I think it was

00:24:37.940 --> 00:24:40.279
kind of like the Murdoch era. they changed that

00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:42.140
model and they said, news, you need to start

00:24:42.140 --> 00:24:44.900
making money now. And that's when you start again,

00:24:44.980 --> 00:24:47.859
these clickbait stories. And if people could

00:24:47.859 --> 00:24:50.579
just understand that the only purpose that, that

00:24:50.579 --> 00:24:54.099
those shows serve now is to make money with the

00:24:54.099 --> 00:24:57.359
advertising in between, it would open their eyes,

00:24:57.480 --> 00:24:59.660
you know? So this, you know, if it's kindness

00:24:59.660 --> 00:25:01.480
and compassion or whatever it is, if the story

00:25:01.480 --> 00:25:04.539
wraps up and you're not glued to the TV to watch

00:25:04.539 --> 00:25:06.880
the tide commercial that's coming up, you know,

00:25:06.900 --> 00:25:08.619
they're not going to have the same, you know,

00:25:08.910 --> 00:25:11.809
selling stout but if i get you angry about trump

00:25:11.809 --> 00:25:15.170
or biden or vaccines or masks or whatever and

00:25:15.170 --> 00:25:16.670
you're going to wait for the commercial break

00:25:16.670 --> 00:25:19.049
to hear what again a screen of four assholes

00:25:19.049 --> 00:25:21.710
has to say about it then you know they can sell

00:25:21.710 --> 00:25:24.089
this advertising space so this is what's so nauseating

00:25:24.089 --> 00:25:27.589
is it's not news it's purely you know economics

00:25:27.589 --> 00:25:33.049
they're just making money clickbait is a pet

00:25:33.049 --> 00:25:35.529
peeve of mine i get really annoyed when i see

00:25:35.529 --> 00:25:38.980
my colleagues at other outlets reducing themselves

00:25:38.980 --> 00:25:43.339
to using it. We see it a lot with law enforcement

00:25:43.339 --> 00:25:48.140
having their own channels through social that

00:25:48.140 --> 00:25:50.759
they put through a lot of clickbait that lacks

00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:55.079
context. And frankly, I believe my position,

00:25:55.180 --> 00:26:00.859
it hurts the community. But at our paper, that's

00:26:00.859 --> 00:26:02.759
something that we do a little different. We are

00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:06.259
not reporting on everyday crime blotter content.

00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:11.400
We are trying to examine more the harder subjects,

00:26:11.500 --> 00:26:17.720
the policy, the financial implications of getting

00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:20.619
our community what it needs. And it's funny,

00:26:20.660 --> 00:26:23.380
when I started this, I had editors tell me, you

00:26:23.380 --> 00:26:26.700
know, you need to write for like no higher than

00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:31.319
a 10th grade education. And I just disagreed

00:26:31.319 --> 00:26:35.490
with that. Some of our stories are long and people

00:26:35.490 --> 00:26:37.890
complain, but they never complain that we didn't

00:26:37.890 --> 00:26:41.250
give them all the information. So I would rather

00:26:41.250 --> 00:26:45.009
be thorough, if anything. One other thing I see

00:26:45.009 --> 00:26:49.849
now is this kind of narcissism in some of these,

00:26:49.890 --> 00:26:51.789
especially in law enforcement, these sheriffs,

00:26:51.789 --> 00:26:54.109
where all of a sudden, again, we're back to the

00:26:54.109 --> 00:26:56.609
Jerry Springer show and they're saying this outlandish

00:26:56.609 --> 00:27:00.019
things. And again, no context and no. conversation

00:27:00.019 --> 00:27:02.339
of well why is there so much crime in my town

00:27:02.339 --> 00:27:04.720
and how can we proactively stop some of these

00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:06.359
issues it's just you know if you can't it's like

00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:09.440
you know some cheesy 1940s western you come in

00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:12.180
my town i'm gonna draw out my six shooter and

00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:17.000
so where the f is that because it's it's ridiculous

00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:19.779
to watch it's hard to be on the receiving end

00:27:19.779 --> 00:27:22.799
of it when they uh particularly the sheriff's

00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:27.900
office when they host press conferences i've

00:27:27.900 --> 00:27:34.430
had him call my reporters questions stupid. He's

00:27:34.430 --> 00:27:40.670
cursed at the reporters in the room. He violates

00:27:40.670 --> 00:27:45.490
his own policy, his own code of conduct for his

00:27:45.490 --> 00:27:50.349
own deputies, the way he addresses people. And

00:27:50.349 --> 00:27:53.529
so now I go, like if there's a press conference,

00:27:53.750 --> 00:27:55.609
I'm not going to send one of my people for that.

00:27:55.670 --> 00:28:00.279
I'll handle it. But I think he thinks it's entertaining.

00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:05.839
I think it shows a lack of dignity for the office

00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:10.160
he holds. And what's the trickle down effect

00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:13.799
on the men and women that serve in his department

00:28:13.799 --> 00:28:18.740
that he's allowed to talk like that? It's, yeah,

00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:22.079
it's not healthy for the community. No, no. Well,

00:28:22.140 --> 00:28:25.279
again, I mean, as we sit here now, what has it

00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:28.160
been, nine years now? That's pretty much been

00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:30.420
the precedence being set from the White House

00:28:30.420 --> 00:28:33.279
to both sides. You can just talk to people that

00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:35.480
way. And whether it's I'm going to tell you to

00:28:35.480 --> 00:28:37.180
stay at home until I can tell you to come out

00:28:37.180 --> 00:28:40.400
and you just wear your mask and shut up. Or it's

00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:42.440
this other side of the circus where you get the

00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:44.480
same thing. And it's funny because I made this

00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:46.680
comment many times back in the day. You know,

00:28:46.680 --> 00:28:48.299
being president of the United States or prime

00:28:48.299 --> 00:28:51.220
minister of the UK is kind of a big deal. Something

00:28:51.220 --> 00:28:53.500
that, you know, people would dream of doing.

00:28:53.579 --> 00:28:55.279
Now it's something that parents say, I don't

00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:57.440
want you anywhere. Do not copy these people.

00:28:57.619 --> 00:28:59.500
And now we've got these, you know, members of

00:28:59.500 --> 00:29:01.920
law enforcement and other people that are copying

00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:05.940
that like some, you know, ridiculous parent that

00:29:05.940 --> 00:29:08.019
acts like an a -hole and then their kid starts

00:29:08.019 --> 00:29:11.079
copying, you know. And I wish these people would

00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:13.740
be professionals. We wear a uniform for a reason.

00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:16.299
Like, you're expected to rise above all that,

00:29:16.359 --> 00:29:18.640
you know, ridiculousness. And instead, they're

00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:21.500
just playing the same game. And, you know, this

00:29:21.500 --> 00:29:23.200
is all going to come crashing down. They're going

00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:25.359
to look, you know. Well, they're not even going

00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:26.859
to look anything. They're going to be replaced

00:29:26.859 --> 00:29:30.079
if they're going to talk like that. That's hopeful.

00:29:31.579 --> 00:29:35.519
I like the idea of replacing one or two. But

00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:42.000
it's funny because even though they act that

00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:45.000
way, even though they will yell at my reporters,

00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:48.039
whatever the case may be, I still have to keep

00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:52.630
open lines of communication. the sheriff called

00:29:52.630 --> 00:29:54.190
me right now and said, Jennifer, I need to talk

00:29:54.190 --> 00:29:57.269
to you. I'd say, James, I got to go. I'd say

00:29:57.269 --> 00:29:59.230
bring him over here. The three of us can chat.

00:29:59.349 --> 00:30:01.150
I doubt it. I doubt that would happen. I've met

00:30:01.150 --> 00:30:03.130
him. He used to be at my son's school events

00:30:03.130 --> 00:30:05.730
all the time. Yeah. And I'll get into my personal

00:30:05.730 --> 00:30:08.849
experience with Marion County and the lack of

00:30:08.849 --> 00:30:10.730
leadership. But anyway, I'll let you carry on.

00:30:10.849 --> 00:30:15.289
But even though we have knocked heads on a few

00:30:15.289 --> 00:30:20.059
subjects, I want him to succeed. It is in my

00:30:20.059 --> 00:30:23.859
community who I love and serve that he do a good

00:30:23.859 --> 00:30:27.920
job. All of them. I want all of them to do a

00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:33.900
good job. So it's frustrating that, you know,

00:30:33.900 --> 00:30:39.140
to be on one side of the abuse, but on the other

00:30:39.140 --> 00:30:45.200
end having to, you know, show grace. I hope he

00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:48.119
changes his mind and actually sits down one day.

00:30:49.509 --> 00:30:52.130
Or maybe the wrong person is in that position.

00:30:52.309 --> 00:30:55.029
Yeah. Because you want that position to succeed.

00:30:55.430 --> 00:30:57.690
Yes, I want, you're exactly right. I want the

00:30:57.690 --> 00:30:59.690
position to succeed. Thanks for the correction.

00:31:00.289 --> 00:31:02.589
Yeah. There's a quote in Band of Brothers that

00:31:02.589 --> 00:31:05.049
said, you salute the rank, not the man. Yes.

00:31:05.069 --> 00:31:07.869
And I've encountered that so much. Yes. I mean,

00:31:07.910 --> 00:31:12.690
they're all human. There's no, they have the

00:31:12.690 --> 00:31:15.690
same frailties and, I mean, different maybe.

00:31:16.750 --> 00:31:19.880
Insecurities, you know. family trauma that they're

00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:23.220
bringing to the role. And I, I try to give a

00:31:23.220 --> 00:31:29.779
little, um, grace understanding that, but when

00:31:29.779 --> 00:31:35.640
it hurts public interest, it's a different, it's

00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:38.140
a different type of reporting then. Yeah. And

00:31:38.140 --> 00:31:40.519
for me as well, obviously. serving the public

00:31:40.519 --> 00:31:42.920
but also when we're losing so many first responders

00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:45.140
like when you are literally burying your own

00:31:45.140 --> 00:31:48.500
people like in the firesides case i mean numerous

00:31:48.500 --> 00:31:51.519
suicides and you're refusing to do anything differently

00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:54.859
that's when i'm gonna take my filter off and

00:31:54.859 --> 00:31:57.160
just say what needs to be said because if these

00:31:57.160 --> 00:31:59.640
deaths aren't moving you to you know go to the

00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:02.779
ends of the earth to find solutions then again

00:32:02.779 --> 00:32:05.920
you're in the wrong position i'm sorry yeah i

00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:10.359
i think that We don't have conversations enough

00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:14.900
about the cost of public safety infrastructure,

00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:20.099
and that includes the human element of it. You

00:32:20.099 --> 00:32:23.079
know, staffing hours, which you have really done

00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:26.220
a great job shining a light on, is just one element

00:32:26.220 --> 00:32:32.930
that impacts their personal life, too. If we

00:32:32.930 --> 00:32:36.109
could have conversations of, OK, we really want

00:32:36.109 --> 00:32:38.009
to support our first responders, but we're all

00:32:38.009 --> 00:32:40.089
going to have to pay $100 more on our tax bill

00:32:40.089 --> 00:32:42.950
so that we're staffed at the right rate. Let's

00:32:42.950 --> 00:32:46.029
quantify it some way, because I think if the

00:32:46.029 --> 00:32:49.890
public did have a clear view of like a level

00:32:49.890 --> 00:32:52.869
of service that they wanted and they were given

00:32:52.869 --> 00:32:54.650
the price tag for it, I think they would come

00:32:54.650 --> 00:32:58.289
through. But that's not how the conversation

00:32:58.289 --> 00:33:07.920
goes. It's always after the fact when something

00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:10.420
really bad happens. And there's a huge price

00:33:10.420 --> 00:33:14.819
tag by that point. Yes. And human life, you know.

00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:17.359
And then, you know, like we were talking before

00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:22.420
we started about that, the assisted living facility

00:33:22.420 --> 00:33:26.200
that recently had a high cost of life. And the

00:33:26.200 --> 00:33:29.079
union there, you know, shed light on they're

00:33:29.079 --> 00:33:31.599
not staffing their engines to the nationally

00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:36.410
recommended level. You know, most fires, able

00:33:36.410 --> 00:33:39.890
-bodied people are running out. But what happens

00:33:39.890 --> 00:33:43.230
when it's a fire in a building and they're elderly

00:33:43.230 --> 00:33:50.549
and not able to move? Yeah. So we need to be

00:33:50.549 --> 00:33:53.690
staffed in advance, have all the infrastructure

00:33:53.690 --> 00:33:58.150
in place to prevent those things from happening.

00:33:58.549 --> 00:34:01.630
But it comes with a price tag. Well, this is

00:34:01.630 --> 00:34:03.589
what's blown me away. And I've had this conversation

00:34:03.589 --> 00:34:07.150
with a lot of people recently. I don't understand

00:34:07.150 --> 00:34:10.710
because, like I said, I never rose above the

00:34:10.710 --> 00:34:13.369
rank of firefighter. I have a bachelor's in sports

00:34:13.369 --> 00:34:17.829
science. I am not elite in any of these areas.

00:34:18.550 --> 00:34:22.170
But it's become painfully apparent that there

00:34:22.170 --> 00:34:25.210
is money for a lot of this. But it's downstream.

00:34:25.630 --> 00:34:28.750
So, for example, with the area I know more about,

00:34:28.929 --> 00:34:31.130
Marion literally shared the numbers when we were

00:34:31.130 --> 00:34:35.369
at the IHMC Blue Sky. There are millions and

00:34:35.369 --> 00:34:37.309
millions and millions of dollars being wasted

00:34:37.309 --> 00:34:40.449
on overtime, millions on lack of retention, kids

00:34:40.449 --> 00:34:42.489
that they train and then they go work for another

00:34:42.489 --> 00:34:45.469
agency, workman's comp claims, medical disability

00:34:45.469 --> 00:34:48.610
payments, line of duty death payments, the lawsuits.

00:34:48.909 --> 00:34:51.230
Every time an engine hits a vehicle or whatever,

00:34:51.389 --> 00:34:55.059
there's hundreds of thousands there. And so I

00:34:55.059 --> 00:34:58.179
don't understand why the financial gurus of City

00:34:58.179 --> 00:35:00.280
of Ocala, Marion County, whoever it is, aren't

00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:02.340
going to those agencies and saying, what is going

00:35:02.340 --> 00:35:06.019
on? We're bleeding money. What can you do differently?

00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:07.860
You know, and then they, oh, well, there's this,

00:35:07.940 --> 00:35:10.079
you know, county helped by Tampa that's doing

00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:11.960
it differently and they've filled all their vacancies

00:35:11.960 --> 00:35:14.400
and their overtime's gone away. You know, why

00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:17.480
are we not doing that? So this is what, you know,

00:35:17.480 --> 00:35:19.619
my stance is, is that we don't need more money.

00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:21.960
And a good example is, and I use this a lot,

00:35:22.059 --> 00:35:26.159
is the NHS in the UK. When it was fully staffed

00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:29.500
and fully funded, you know, you have this system

00:35:29.500 --> 00:35:31.940
where then it motivates you to make the nation

00:35:31.940 --> 00:35:34.139
healthy. And we were. When I was young, there

00:35:34.139 --> 00:35:36.239
was a lot of, you know, retrospectively looking

00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:38.900
at it, a lot of great health initiatives. And

00:35:38.900 --> 00:35:40.539
if you keep the nation healthy, then you only

00:35:40.539 --> 00:35:42.380
use your tax -based health care system for the

00:35:42.380 --> 00:35:44.519
things that are really needed. The elderly, births,

00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:48.110
you know, cancers, car crashes, etc. But now

00:35:48.110 --> 00:35:51.769
it was kind of pseudo -privatized and obesity

00:35:51.769 --> 00:35:55.389
has hit the UK tremendously and now it's falling

00:35:55.389 --> 00:35:58.590
apart. So how do you fix the NHS in the UK? You

00:35:58.590 --> 00:36:00.909
put it back to tax base and you put all your

00:36:00.909 --> 00:36:03.429
money in getting British people healthy again.

00:36:03.610 --> 00:36:06.949
And it's the same with this. Where's the money

00:36:06.949 --> 00:36:09.269
to fix the first responder professions? It's

00:36:09.269 --> 00:36:12.260
in all... the downstream downstream costs and

00:36:12.260 --> 00:36:14.480
even you know we'll get to i'm sure i can only

00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:17.340
imagine the millions in lawsuits after these

00:36:17.340 --> 00:36:20.599
deaths and abuses of power in law enforcement

00:36:20.599 --> 00:36:23.800
and in fire i mean that alone is probably you

00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:26.360
know enough to put god knows how many more officers

00:36:26.360 --> 00:36:28.800
in vehicles so this is what i don't understand

00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:31.239
is this false economy and i think it comes from

00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:33.639
cowardice i just want to look good in a fiscal

00:36:33.639 --> 00:36:37.159
year so i can again get up on my pulpit and and

00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:39.260
make crass remarks and say that I've saved the

00:36:39.260 --> 00:36:41.639
county this amount of money, but you haven't.

00:36:41.639 --> 00:36:45.039
It's a complete false economy. There's a lot

00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:48.099
of smoke and mirrors with public safety, budget,

00:36:48.300 --> 00:36:54.579
and communications. The local sheriff, he recently

00:36:54.579 --> 00:36:59.380
did a staffing study and said he needed hundreds

00:36:59.380 --> 00:37:03.119
of more deputies than what we have because we've

00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:07.719
grown so much in Florida. And in Ocala. But he

00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:10.800
only ended up getting like 20 or so added to

00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:19.019
his budget. And he framed it in such a way that

00:37:19.019 --> 00:37:22.400
the county commission, you know, thanked him

00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:26.679
for being gracious and not asking for more. But

00:37:26.679 --> 00:37:29.840
at the same time, what does that mean? I mean,

00:37:29.860 --> 00:37:32.949
that trickled down. in response times, which

00:37:32.949 --> 00:37:35.090
the sheriff's office provides no accountability

00:37:35.090 --> 00:37:39.909
for. I've asked for studies on response times

00:37:39.909 --> 00:37:41.750
in Marion County from the sheriff's office, and

00:37:41.750 --> 00:37:44.030
they tell me there's no reports. They can give

00:37:44.030 --> 00:37:46.230
me individual CAD reports on calls, but there's

00:37:46.230 --> 00:37:49.210
no analysis on how long it's taking them to get

00:37:49.210 --> 00:37:52.190
to calls. I find that unacceptable. That's insane,

00:37:52.349 --> 00:37:53.789
because I've always been held to those standards.

00:37:54.050 --> 00:37:58.570
Well, fire's different. Fire, they, you know,

00:37:58.570 --> 00:38:01.099
they have... nationally recommended times to

00:38:01.099 --> 00:38:05.900
be out the door. They keep track of it more because

00:38:05.900 --> 00:38:11.300
they're having to move assets all over a county

00:38:11.300 --> 00:38:15.340
to address it. The sheriff's office isn't sharing

00:38:15.340 --> 00:38:17.480
any of that. And yet they work from the same

00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:20.079
CAD the fire department does. And if I call the

00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:22.380
fire department and say, I want a CAD report

00:38:22.380 --> 00:38:27.219
for every call on this day, I can get it. Sheriff's

00:38:27.219 --> 00:38:29.449
office says they can't. print that sort of report,

00:38:29.670 --> 00:38:36.469
which to me is a lie and disturbing because,

00:38:36.570 --> 00:38:43.590
I mean, the amount of power we give them relies

00:38:43.590 --> 00:38:47.250
on truthfulness. And that has really gone away.

00:38:48.150 --> 00:38:52.809
And why I believe we need journalism so badly

00:38:52.809 --> 00:38:56.489
for the sake of the public, because the public

00:38:56.489 --> 00:38:59.320
doesn't know how to figure that out. So how do

00:38:59.320 --> 00:39:01.699
they know to demand more? How do they know when

00:39:01.699 --> 00:39:05.739
they go in the voting booth what the level of

00:39:05.739 --> 00:39:08.760
accountability is? Most people only become aware

00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:12.039
of it when an incident happens to them, and then

00:39:12.039 --> 00:39:14.820
it's too late usually. They're like, wow, I wish

00:39:14.820 --> 00:39:18.280
I would have known about that. I hate when I

00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:19.880
hear that because it's like, read local news.

00:39:20.900 --> 00:39:23.860
Well, that's exactly what happened to me. So

00:39:23.860 --> 00:39:29.739
when my son was in Liberty Middle School, He

00:39:29.739 --> 00:39:33.320
had been going through some struggles. I'm divorced

00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:35.099
and in the other household at that time, there

00:39:35.099 --> 00:39:39.300
was kind of a poor relationship between my ex

00:39:39.300 --> 00:39:42.139
and who she was with at the time. And yeah, it

00:39:42.139 --> 00:39:44.019
was kind of, again, that domino effect. It was

00:39:44.019 --> 00:39:46.400
coming out with Ty. Not to mention, again, our

00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:48.719
divorce wasn't just that solely, but this little

00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:51.619
boy was struggling. And he was seeing a counselor

00:39:51.619 --> 00:39:54.099
there. And I'm driving back from the station

00:39:54.099 --> 00:39:57.360
one morning and he always... One afternoon, excuse

00:39:57.360 --> 00:39:59.360
me. And he would always kind of call me and say,

00:39:59.480 --> 00:40:01.599
I'm on the bus or text me. I'm on the bus. I'm

00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:03.860
off the bus. I'm home. Because it was that transitional

00:40:03.860 --> 00:40:06.360
period where he was able to walk home safely

00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:09.019
in this neighborhood. But I still knew that he'd

00:40:09.019 --> 00:40:13.900
made it. And I didn't get a text. So I end up

00:40:13.900 --> 00:40:18.179
calling him. And he's like, oh, dad, the principal

00:40:18.179 --> 00:40:21.699
wants to talk to you. And so she said, oh, Mr.

00:40:21.739 --> 00:40:25.139
Guillaume, we've got a problem. And I'm with

00:40:25.139 --> 00:40:27.679
a tie now. I'll call you back and let you know

00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:29.840
what's going on. That was it. So I hadn't been

00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:32.420
contacted. I contacted my son and they took the

00:40:32.420 --> 00:40:36.320
phone. I hear nothing. You know, I think 20 minutes

00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:38.579
goes on half an hour and I call again. And they're

00:40:38.579 --> 00:40:40.559
like, oh yeah, your son's been Baker acted. He's

00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:45.000
at the centers. And I'm like, what? So anyway,

00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:47.300
I go to the centers, which is now renamed, but

00:40:47.300 --> 00:40:52.440
you know, the 72 hour psychiatric hold. Because

00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:54.840
for someone that I know in my career is either

00:40:54.840 --> 00:40:57.400
imminently dangerous to themselves or someone

00:40:57.400 --> 00:41:00.239
else. And this is a small child. I think he was

00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:05.219
12, 11 or 12 at the time. And come to find out

00:41:05.219 --> 00:41:08.199
that he had just been crying at his desk in the

00:41:08.199 --> 00:41:12.440
school. They'd taken him to the counselor, but

00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:14.719
the counselor had just left. And you had a principal

00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:17.639
and an SRO. And between the two of them, the

00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:18.820
end of the school day, they were like, well,

00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:20.260
we just want to go home. So we're just going

00:41:20.260 --> 00:41:23.030
to send this kid to the centers. I shit you not.

00:41:23.670 --> 00:41:26.210
So I get there and I'm just distraught. I mean,

00:41:26.250 --> 00:41:30.190
angry, crying, all that stuff. And so anyway,

00:41:30.349 --> 00:41:33.730
he was there for the full 72 hours, finally getting

00:41:33.730 --> 00:41:36.869
back. And I start diving into this. And then,

00:41:36.949 --> 00:41:39.269
you know, I go to Marion. It's the same thing,

00:41:39.329 --> 00:41:41.349
sheriff's office. I need all the records of these

00:41:41.349 --> 00:41:43.650
children that are being sent because while Ty

00:41:43.650 --> 00:41:45.849
was there, I saw other Liberty School middle

00:41:45.849 --> 00:41:47.550
schoolers. I mean, how the hell are all these

00:41:47.550 --> 00:41:51.219
children being Baker acted? You know, and this

00:41:51.219 --> 00:41:53.239
is a good school system. I'll give my, you know,

00:41:53.239 --> 00:41:55.260
overall, it's been a great experience. He just

00:41:55.260 --> 00:41:58.539
graduated this summer. And so anyway, I spent

00:41:58.539 --> 00:42:00.460
like a hundred and something dollars to pull

00:42:00.460 --> 00:42:05.079
these files. And there's just pages of children,

00:42:05.179 --> 00:42:07.599
especially at that school with this turd of an

00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:10.880
SRO and this turd of a principal. And they were

00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:13.639
just like a revolving door, you know, tens and

00:42:13.639 --> 00:42:15.760
tens and tens of children Baker Act, you know,

00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:18.900
month and month out. And so it just so happens

00:42:18.900 --> 00:42:21.019
that I kind of caught the tail end of what was

00:42:21.019 --> 00:42:22.980
already being discussed. And it was post Parkland

00:42:22.980 --> 00:42:25.019
where all these schools had this knee jerk and

00:42:25.019 --> 00:42:27.679
just, well, just send everyone to a psych unit.

00:42:27.699 --> 00:42:29.039
Now they're probably all going to be shooters

00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:33.139
anyway. The legislation was changed. And if they

00:42:33.139 --> 00:42:35.099
had done what they did to my son now, they would

00:42:35.099 --> 00:42:37.800
both be behind bars. But at the time, I went

00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:39.920
to the school and I went to the sheriff's office

00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:42.820
and I told them this is wrong. And they just

00:42:42.820 --> 00:42:45.039
blamed each other. And it was the most disgusting

00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:48.179
display of cowardice. And, you know, both of

00:42:48.179 --> 00:42:50.079
those two people are still working in the sheriff's

00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:52.360
office and in the school system. What year was

00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:56.559
it? Let me see. It would have been about six

00:42:56.559 --> 00:43:00.840
years ago, six, seven years ago now. Yeah. And

00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:04.000
so I got to see this. And again, I'm a staunch

00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:07.039
supporter of law enforcement. I've been side

00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:08.900
by side with some incredible people my whole

00:43:08.900 --> 00:43:13.599
career. So as they say, the people that hate

00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:16.360
bad cops the worst are good cops. And it's the

00:43:16.360 --> 00:43:19.690
same thing with firefighters. But going back

00:43:19.690 --> 00:43:22.550
to your point, it was local journalism where

00:43:22.550 --> 00:43:24.550
I finally found this. And I had teachers coming

00:43:24.550 --> 00:43:26.269
out saying, thank you. We've got these kids whose

00:43:26.269 --> 00:43:28.389
parents don't even step up and advocate for these

00:43:28.389 --> 00:43:30.389
children while they're being Baker acted. And

00:43:30.389 --> 00:43:33.349
I uncovered this whole issue. It just so happened

00:43:33.349 --> 00:43:35.690
that I got to it. And then a few months later,

00:43:35.730 --> 00:43:37.670
with the help of all these other people that

00:43:37.670 --> 00:43:40.329
obviously been in the fight way before me, that

00:43:40.329 --> 00:43:42.690
it finally got to the point where it was, you

00:43:42.690 --> 00:43:44.690
know, deemed illegal. But the center's had a

00:43:44.690 --> 00:43:48.610
great protocol written. And the school and this,

00:43:48.690 --> 00:43:51.849
you know, deputy completely disregarded. What

00:43:51.849 --> 00:43:53.070
should have happened is they should have sent

00:43:53.070 --> 00:43:55.909
someone over, do an evaluation. The whole protocol

00:43:55.909 --> 00:43:59.150
was about downgrading. And, you know, contact

00:43:59.150 --> 00:44:01.650
the parent was number one as well. So they couldn't

00:44:01.650 --> 00:44:03.650
have done anything worse. And neither agency

00:44:03.650 --> 00:44:07.730
had the backbone to say that was wrong. And we're

00:44:07.730 --> 00:44:08.889
going to look into it and we're going to take

00:44:08.889 --> 00:44:14.219
care of it. So that's field policy that. It's

00:44:14.219 --> 00:44:16.760
interesting because on its face, it's so obviously

00:44:16.760 --> 00:44:20.320
illogical and counterproductive. So how did it

00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:27.500
get there? There's plenty of subjects where you

00:44:27.500 --> 00:44:34.039
walk away from looking at how things work. It's

00:44:34.039 --> 00:44:36.559
obviously not correct. It's obviously against

00:44:36.559 --> 00:44:39.719
national recommendations, but it's still happening.

00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:45.219
Why? I don't want to think it's because people

00:44:45.219 --> 00:44:49.659
don't care. Maybe they just don't understand

00:44:49.659 --> 00:44:53.900
how to address the issues of mentally ill students

00:44:53.900 --> 00:44:59.579
or adults. And so, you know, their response is

00:44:59.579 --> 00:45:01.480
to just hand the problem off to somebody else.

00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:05.440
Well, in this case, I mean, they had a well -trained.

00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:08.760
And I mean, geographically, it's not far from

00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:11.280
the schools at all, you know, where you just

00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:13.820
have the humility to say, OK, this is my scope

00:45:13.820 --> 00:45:16.920
of practice over to you. But then again, I understand

00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:20.239
that there is also, you know, this element where

00:45:20.239 --> 00:45:23.500
fire, law enforcement, EMS were expected to kind

00:45:23.500 --> 00:45:26.440
of be pseudo, you know, mental health practitioners,

00:45:26.539 --> 00:45:28.400
the same with the teachers. So it's really also

00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:31.000
about putting in strong lines like, OK, this,

00:45:31.159 --> 00:45:33.820
you know, if it's beyond this, don't try and

00:45:33.820 --> 00:45:37.079
fix this. Stop and call the people that know.

00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:39.480
And I think there's, again, lack of leadership,

00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:42.500
you know, maybe an arrogance to it. But, you

00:45:42.500 --> 00:45:44.519
know, again, that's not even a dollar amount.

00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:47.159
But you think about the trauma that was caused

00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:49.960
in that school. Do you think my son ever asked

00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:52.960
for help again after that? Probably not. None

00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:55.340
of those children ever when they were struggling,

00:45:55.400 --> 00:45:57.239
ever going to put their hand up and say, I need

00:45:57.239 --> 00:46:00.239
help. And some of them. probably there's going

00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:02.420
to be a ripple effect to an overdose or a suicide,

00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:04.860
all because of the damage that those two people

00:46:04.860 --> 00:46:12.699
did. That's really sad. Yeah. So this is, I mean,

00:46:12.699 --> 00:46:14.159
going back to your point, though, this is why

00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:16.739
it's so important for this journalism and it's

00:46:16.739 --> 00:46:18.679
so important for these voices and these conversations.

00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:21.119
Is it uncomfortable? Yes. But I mean, watching,

00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:25.880
this isn't politics, watching the cowardice to

00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:28.099
stand up and say what was happening in Gaza was

00:46:28.099 --> 00:46:31.519
wrong. has really opened my eyes to one of the

00:46:31.519 --> 00:46:33.559
issues that we have in this country. If you can't

00:46:33.559 --> 00:46:35.920
look at that with tens of thousands of children

00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:38.519
through all the other things and then starvation

00:46:38.519 --> 00:46:43.000
and say, regardless of backstory and intergenerational

00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:47.579
trauma and wars, that this is beyond a response,

00:46:48.019 --> 00:46:50.659
then you're a coward. And this is the problem.

00:46:50.780 --> 00:46:52.239
We've got a lot of people in this country that

00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:53.900
beat their chest and think they're all cowboys.

00:46:54.039 --> 00:46:56.420
And when it comes to actually being courageous

00:46:56.420 --> 00:46:59.789
in leadership, They've got nothing. And so I

00:46:59.789 --> 00:47:01.590
think systemically, this is one of the reasons

00:47:01.590 --> 00:47:03.690
why we've seen some of the issues that we have.

00:47:04.050 --> 00:47:06.050
You know, you've got the Rootin' Tootin', you

00:47:06.050 --> 00:47:09.250
know, sheriff or fire chief who's got their,

00:47:09.269 --> 00:47:12.130
you know, stripes on their arm or their bugles

00:47:12.130 --> 00:47:14.650
on their collar, but they actually don't have

00:47:14.650 --> 00:47:16.750
the backbone or the balls to actually do that

00:47:16.750 --> 00:47:23.409
job properly. Yeah. It's funny because with Gaza...

00:47:24.190 --> 00:47:26.550
I'm not an expert on that subject at all, but

00:47:26.550 --> 00:47:28.789
I've seen what everybody else has seen, and it's

00:47:28.789 --> 00:47:31.190
like they're kids. We've got to draw the line.

00:47:33.670 --> 00:47:37.969
But as much as the president loves to hate on

00:47:37.969 --> 00:47:41.429
journalists, he said Israel, let the journalists

00:47:41.429 --> 00:47:47.230
in. They needed independent fact -finders to

00:47:47.230 --> 00:47:54.079
report. I would love to see that type of attitude

00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:57.360
trickle down locally, and I do sometimes. In

00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:00.739
all fairness, I can give you an example, even

00:48:00.739 --> 00:48:05.320
Marion County Fire Rescue. They, as you pointed

00:48:05.320 --> 00:48:08.300
out, had a lot of troubles a couple years ago.

00:48:08.420 --> 00:48:14.940
They were hemorrhaging people and having a hard

00:48:14.940 --> 00:48:20.280
time not only keeping their people, but having

00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:23.079
enough people to deal with the growth. So the

00:48:23.079 --> 00:48:27.079
department was very strained. They have made

00:48:27.079 --> 00:48:31.539
changes since then to improve, like policy changes

00:48:31.539 --> 00:48:35.079
about inner facility transfers. They've increased

00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:37.980
the pay. They've done some good things. They

00:48:37.980 --> 00:48:40.679
still have a ways to go, obviously, including

00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:44.059
taking your good advice about work hours, but

00:48:44.059 --> 00:48:49.369
we won't go there. But after the suicides, And

00:48:49.369 --> 00:48:52.170
there were a lot of signs leading up to that

00:48:52.170 --> 00:48:57.130
time that things were not good. After the suicides,

00:48:57.150 --> 00:49:01.369
when we were looking at, okay, what's going on?

00:49:01.409 --> 00:49:04.170
How do we explain this to the public so that

00:49:04.170 --> 00:49:08.269
they can support it in the right way? I have

00:49:08.269 --> 00:49:14.269
to give Banta some credit. And I'm sure you're

00:49:14.269 --> 00:49:17.610
going to be surprised to hear this, but he...

00:49:18.260 --> 00:49:22.619
gave me access. For example, he had a town hall

00:49:22.619 --> 00:49:26.099
with the department where the chiefs would answer

00:49:26.099 --> 00:49:29.780
questions, gripes on anything. And I was like,

00:49:29.820 --> 00:49:31.780
Oh, God, this is gonna be bad. But he's gonna

00:49:31.780 --> 00:49:34.699
let me sit in the back and listen. And I'm so

00:49:34.699 --> 00:49:37.960
grateful he did, because it allowed me to hear

00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:41.219
what the concerns were from the people in the

00:49:41.219 --> 00:49:45.019
field. You know, if they're worried that their

00:49:45.019 --> 00:49:48.039
colleague has a mental health issue or a drug

00:49:48.039 --> 00:49:52.800
problem or an alcohol problem, what are going

00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:54.800
to be the consequences of them speaking up to

00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:58.639
get their friend help? You know, how do drugs

00:49:58.639 --> 00:50:05.280
play into treating the stress they have? Can

00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:08.619
they have medical marijuana like maybe somebody

00:50:08.619 --> 00:50:11.219
in the public can? All of those conversations

00:50:11.219 --> 00:50:17.719
allowed me to hear from multiple points of view

00:50:17.719 --> 00:50:21.639
and really impacted my ability to write carefully

00:50:21.639 --> 00:50:24.679
on the subject because journalists usually shy

00:50:24.679 --> 00:50:28.139
away from talking about suicide very much because

00:50:28.139 --> 00:50:31.239
studies show that it could actually influence

00:50:31.239 --> 00:50:34.820
more of them. So we took a very careful approach.

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:39.980
We were able to shine a light on that. There

00:50:39.980 --> 00:50:43.400
has been improvements. There's still a ways to

00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:50.360
go. They let one of my reporters even spend 24

00:50:50.360 --> 00:50:54.139
hours with the most busy station, and she wrote

00:50:54.139 --> 00:50:59.880
honestly. We don't, we're not going to sugarcoat

00:50:59.880 --> 00:51:03.179
it. The thing that I respect about our two fire

00:51:03.179 --> 00:51:06.260
chiefs is that neither one of them has ever lied

00:51:06.260 --> 00:51:09.760
to me, even when they knew the report wasn't

00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:12.800
going to be good. I can't say the same about

00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:16.820
local law enforcement. So I'm grateful for that.

00:51:16.940 --> 00:51:20.820
And they have given me access so that I understand

00:51:20.820 --> 00:51:24.659
the stories I'm reporting on as far as infrastructure

00:51:24.659 --> 00:51:29.719
goes, understanding how the CADs work, all of

00:51:29.719 --> 00:51:33.559
that. But the people, the most delicate balance

00:51:33.559 --> 00:51:37.440
of it, they've also helped me understand the

00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:39.300
policy and the changes that they're trying to

00:51:39.300 --> 00:51:44.599
make. Unfortunately, it's in government. it takes

00:51:44.599 --> 00:51:51.500
a little bit longer than it should um yeah that's

00:51:51.500 --> 00:51:54.579
seeing the departments that have changed they

00:51:54.579 --> 00:51:56.679
just said enough is enough and they changed it

00:51:56.679 --> 00:51:59.300
so i kind of you know when people say it's complicated

00:51:59.300 --> 00:52:00.800
it's going to take time yeah i mean it might

00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:03.179
take time as far as you know okay this is going

00:52:03.179 --> 00:52:05.380
to be a three -year transition like pasco did

00:52:05.380 --> 00:52:07.460
or two and a half and actually came down to two

00:52:07.460 --> 00:52:09.739
because it was so successful that they shaved

00:52:09.739 --> 00:52:13.260
off six months but you know what For example,

00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:17.380
I saw was IHMC, you know, there was this fully

00:52:17.380 --> 00:52:21.500
funded, free, deep dive into what was going on.

00:52:21.659 --> 00:52:24.199
These world of experts that work with, you know,

00:52:24.219 --> 00:52:27.239
elite warfighters got in this room, you know,

00:52:27.239 --> 00:52:28.920
and again, initially no one even talked about

00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:31.559
the work week. I had to kind of dip my knuckles

00:52:31.559 --> 00:52:33.500
in glass and be aggressive and say, okay, this

00:52:33.500 --> 00:52:34.960
is one of the things, let me teach you about

00:52:34.960 --> 00:52:38.340
how we work. And then by the end of it, all these

00:52:38.340 --> 00:52:39.940
experts said, well, that's obviously number one.

00:52:40.400 --> 00:52:43.360
is you got to go to this 42 hour work week. And

00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:46.139
that was two years ago and nothing has happened.

00:52:46.219 --> 00:52:50.139
So this is what drives me crazy is very few places

00:52:50.139 --> 00:52:53.239
in the country had that kind of thing gift wrapped

00:52:53.239 --> 00:52:56.980
and given to them. And you have also got a fire

00:52:56.980 --> 00:53:00.219
academy, the state fire academy in your county.

00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:03.840
How embarrassing is that? that you get class

00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:06.480
after class after class, and they don't want

00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:08.920
to work for the very place that they just emerged

00:53:08.920 --> 00:53:13.059
from. So those two hand in hand, you can be a

00:53:13.059 --> 00:53:16.320
nice bloke. I'm a nice bloke, but I'd be a terrible

00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:19.019
accountant or a plumber. I'm terrible with my

00:53:19.019 --> 00:53:20.940
hands when it comes to building stuff. So just

00:53:20.940 --> 00:53:22.920
because you're not a horrible person doesn't

00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:24.860
mean that you're actually... you know qualified

00:53:24.860 --> 00:53:26.920
to be in that position if you don't have the

00:53:26.920 --> 00:53:29.559
courage especially after burying so many of your

00:53:29.559 --> 00:53:33.260
own people to step up and say today enough is

00:53:33.260 --> 00:53:35.340
enough we're going to make changes instead of

00:53:35.340 --> 00:53:38.260
this farting around because i'm not only a you

00:53:38.260 --> 00:53:40.519
know an advocate for the fire service i'm a citizen

00:53:40.519 --> 00:53:43.280
of marion county and these lack of decisions

00:53:43.280 --> 00:53:47.079
affect their ability to rescue my family i do

00:53:47.079 --> 00:53:53.760
see since that blue sky report improvements when

00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:55.739
it or i don't know if they're improvements yet

00:53:55.739 --> 00:53:59.539
i haven't done a follow -up but as far as treatment

00:53:59.539 --> 00:54:04.019
of that department the ketamine the ketamine

00:54:04.019 --> 00:54:07.039
treatment that's that's you know but i mean that's

00:54:07.039 --> 00:54:10.079
new it's new but it's not affecting the core

00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:13.099
problem which is that they're working their first

00:54:13.099 --> 00:54:16.639
responders to death literally and i have checked

00:54:16.639 --> 00:54:18.860
in not only with the chief but with the fire

00:54:18.860 --> 00:54:22.460
union and asked you know Are we still losing

00:54:22.460 --> 00:54:25.920
a lot of the senior people? And they've told

00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:30.519
me that it's slowed down and that right now the

00:54:30.519 --> 00:54:33.639
department is actually a lot better balanced

00:54:33.639 --> 00:54:37.260
with experienced and new firefighters, which

00:54:37.260 --> 00:54:41.639
also is very important to the health of a department.

00:54:41.800 --> 00:54:44.460
You need the experience. There's nothing that

00:54:44.460 --> 00:54:48.420
can replace that. No, exactly. But even some

00:54:48.420 --> 00:54:50.440
of the, I had one of my friends who works there

00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:51.960
and he's like, oh yeah, the mandatory overtime

00:54:51.960 --> 00:54:55.079
has gone down. And I was like, well, has the

00:54:55.079 --> 00:54:56.739
overtime gone down? Oh no, no, there's still

00:54:56.739 --> 00:54:59.119
loads to sign up for. Exactly. So what happens

00:54:59.119 --> 00:55:00.619
in the fire service, and this is like you're

00:55:00.619 --> 00:55:03.980
talking about smoke and mirrors, is if I know

00:55:03.980 --> 00:55:07.559
that my friend who just had a child. two months

00:55:07.559 --> 00:55:10.179
ago is going to get hit yet again, I'm going

00:55:10.179 --> 00:55:12.500
to jump on the grenade for him. You know, if

00:55:12.500 --> 00:55:14.860
I was still there now, my son's 18, I'm going

00:55:14.860 --> 00:55:17.059
to take one for the team because I refuse to

00:55:17.059 --> 00:55:20.659
let that guy not go home to his newborn. So this

00:55:20.659 --> 00:55:23.340
is what you see skewing. You know, they can move

00:55:23.340 --> 00:55:26.239
these cups around, you know, but it's the same

00:55:26.239 --> 00:55:29.820
issue. So I was talking to Jonathan who was there.

00:55:29.900 --> 00:55:32.559
He was the ketamine expert. And that's great,

00:55:32.619 --> 00:55:34.300
but that's a treatment for someone who's already

00:55:34.300 --> 00:55:36.860
broken. You know what I mean? That's not just

00:55:36.860 --> 00:55:39.920
a proactive solution. I agree. Quality of life

00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:46.460
is really important. And when it comes to their

00:55:46.460 --> 00:55:50.159
quality, I think their personal life needs to

00:55:50.159 --> 00:55:53.079
be as chill as possible since their job is intense.

00:55:53.519 --> 00:55:56.500
So if you're a member of the public and you just

00:55:56.500 --> 00:56:00.780
got in an accident, you want that medic not,

00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:03.500
you want him showing up alert and ready to help

00:56:03.500 --> 00:56:07.000
you. You do not want him exhausted or worried

00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:08.480
about how he's going to keep his lights on because

00:56:08.480 --> 00:56:11.599
we're not paying him enough. Or his wife is angry

00:56:11.599 --> 00:56:14.679
because he got overtime and they had plans. You

00:56:14.679 --> 00:56:19.019
want him focused on you. And so the public owes

00:56:19.019 --> 00:56:23.380
a duty to first responders to look after their

00:56:23.380 --> 00:56:28.980
quality of life. I sort of frown upon our state

00:56:28.980 --> 00:56:33.500
leadership. touting that they are pro first responders

00:56:33.500 --> 00:56:36.059
by giving out signing bonuses and things like

00:56:36.059 --> 00:56:42.780
that when they are leaving at the at the feet

00:56:42.780 --> 00:56:46.139
of our first responders societal problems that

00:56:46.139 --> 00:56:50.980
they are providing no resources so it's almost

00:56:50.980 --> 00:56:53.440
like they're they're paying first responders

00:56:53.440 --> 00:56:58.659
for support while they sweep things They don't

00:56:58.659 --> 00:57:00.719
want the public to see. They don't want to see

00:57:00.719 --> 00:57:05.280
that DCF, Department of Children and Family Services,

00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:08.579
doesn't have the resources it needs to take care

00:57:08.579 --> 00:57:13.320
of the vulnerable. They don't want the public

00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:17.739
to see that they have next to no mental health

00:57:17.739 --> 00:57:21.579
resources. And so these people are arrested and

00:57:21.579 --> 00:57:24.179
put in jail. When they need treatment. Well,

00:57:24.199 --> 00:57:25.860
because the mental health facilities are all

00:57:25.860 --> 00:57:27.579
full of middle school kids. They have no space.

00:57:28.239 --> 00:57:33.320
Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like they use first responders

00:57:33.320 --> 00:57:36.179
to sweep away these societal problems because

00:57:36.179 --> 00:57:38.920
they don't want their voter base to see them.

00:57:40.139 --> 00:57:43.880
And by doing that, they make the job of the first

00:57:43.880 --> 00:57:49.659
responders more dangerous. Yeah. I've always

00:57:49.659 --> 00:57:52.719
said the same thing. switching now to the other

00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:54.699
side of the conversation because i could not

00:57:54.699 --> 00:57:57.539
agree more i mean are the right people in the

00:57:57.539 --> 00:57:59.780
right leadership positions you know i would argue

00:57:59.780 --> 00:58:03.639
no but when you have an officer involved whatever

00:58:03.639 --> 00:58:07.480
there's never a conversation of firstly how how

00:58:07.480 --> 00:58:09.460
many hours have they been working by that point

00:58:09.460 --> 00:58:11.019
have they been forced into mandatory overtime

00:58:11.019 --> 00:58:13.019
are they exhausted is their marriage falling

00:58:13.019 --> 00:58:15.900
apart because they're not there what level of

00:58:15.900 --> 00:58:17.719
training have they had were the fitness standards

00:58:17.719 --> 00:58:20.400
upheld You know, so you've got all those, but

00:58:20.400 --> 00:58:23.679
then you never hear, well, what are we doing?

00:58:23.960 --> 00:58:27.800
Excuse me, society wise, what are we doing to

00:58:27.800 --> 00:58:29.960
create so much crime on the streets? Because

00:58:29.960 --> 00:58:33.119
you go to Oslo or Lisbon, there aren't gangs

00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:35.059
everywhere. There isn't homelessness all over

00:58:35.059 --> 00:58:37.619
the place. Addiction has been, you know, Portugal,

00:58:37.760 --> 00:58:40.219
for example, they decriminalized addiction and

00:58:40.219 --> 00:58:42.239
now they have almost none. They have some, but

00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:44.840
minimal compared to the rest of the world. Very

00:58:44.840 --> 00:58:48.119
proactive solutions. So, you know, this is the

00:58:48.119 --> 00:58:50.780
other side. And even just operationally, the

00:58:50.780 --> 00:58:53.519
fact that we send out a single human being in

00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:56.559
a cop car to a call is insanity. And I've asked

00:58:56.559 --> 00:58:58.239
people, because I'm not a police officer, but

00:58:58.239 --> 00:59:01.539
just from a layman's point, knowing, you know,

00:59:01.559 --> 00:59:03.599
being a martial artist, knowing that, you know,

00:59:03.619 --> 00:59:06.880
the force multiplier element of having two people

00:59:06.880 --> 00:59:11.269
and that impacts on... the officer -involved

00:59:11.269 --> 00:59:14.349
shootings, the excessive use of force, all these

00:59:14.349 --> 00:59:16.909
other areas, if you've got two people, you're

00:59:16.909 --> 00:59:18.510
not going to have as many people run or fight

00:59:18.510 --> 00:59:21.570
you. It's just common sense. But that takes,

00:59:21.590 --> 00:59:24.929
again, more investment and more pulling people

00:59:24.929 --> 00:59:26.670
into the world of law enforcement. But if you're

00:59:26.670 --> 00:59:29.769
going to cut their legs off every time they make

00:59:29.769 --> 00:59:32.449
an air quotes mistake, that was probably, again,

00:59:32.670 --> 00:59:35.510
a ripple effect of the systemic issues that you

00:59:35.510 --> 00:59:39.150
have, then what's... dragging anyone into that

00:59:39.150 --> 00:59:40.969
profession anymore and then you have this recruitment

00:59:40.969 --> 00:59:43.369
crisis and then it's just getting worse I think

00:59:43.369 --> 00:59:49.110
there's one area where yes they're working a

00:59:49.110 --> 00:59:52.610
difficult job with not a lot of resources and

00:59:52.610 --> 00:59:55.670
mistakes are going to happen they are yeah they're

00:59:55.670 --> 00:59:57.849
going to happen okay we don't want them to happen

00:59:57.849 --> 01:00:01.269
but they are so we'll give you know remedial

01:00:01.269 --> 01:00:06.989
for that but the the part as a journalist where

01:00:06.989 --> 01:00:08.829
I feel like there needs to be more accountability

01:00:08.829 --> 01:00:13.090
is when there's clear signs that they have issues

01:00:13.090 --> 01:00:20.969
about truthfulness in keeping policies that are

01:00:20.969 --> 01:00:24.210
meant to protect the public. That's where I'm

01:00:24.210 --> 01:00:28.949
like, okay, not a lot of grace there. And unfortunately,

01:00:29.110 --> 01:00:34.570
in Marion County, we have officers that have

01:00:34.570 --> 01:00:39.510
been promoted. to levels of supervision that

01:00:39.510 --> 01:00:43.809
were on the state attorney's Brady list of like,

01:00:43.849 --> 01:00:47.050
I can't put him on the stand because he's got

01:00:47.050 --> 01:00:50.449
an honesty problem. Oh, yeah. And so he, you

01:00:50.449 --> 01:00:53.289
know, this one who recently was allowed to resign,

01:00:53.510 --> 01:00:57.730
left the sheriff's office, went to OPD, was elevated

01:00:57.730 --> 01:01:00.869
to sergeant, continually had problems turning

01:01:00.869 --> 01:01:04.849
on his body cam. But another officer's body cam

01:01:04.849 --> 01:01:09.190
caught him taunting. a juvenile at a very tense

01:01:09.190 --> 01:01:17.230
situation, like picking a fight with him. There

01:01:17.230 --> 01:01:21.650
were plenty of red flags up to that moment. Instead,

01:01:22.090 --> 01:01:24.650
I don't know if he was a favorite of somebody.

01:01:26.010 --> 01:01:29.409
He was given more responsibility. So what does

01:01:29.409 --> 01:01:31.690
that, what message does that send to the rest

01:01:31.690 --> 01:01:34.010
of the rank and file? Ooh, we need to be friends

01:01:34.010 --> 01:01:36.219
with the chief because then. we can get away

01:01:36.219 --> 01:01:40.360
with whatever. So I get concerned about that.

01:01:40.500 --> 01:01:47.139
But when it comes to supporting them in the work

01:01:47.139 --> 01:01:51.320
that they do, it's more than just money. It's

01:01:51.320 --> 01:01:55.780
more than just buying them coffee. It's looking

01:01:55.780 --> 01:02:00.280
at their whole nucleus, their families, the price

01:02:00.280 --> 01:02:06.380
they pay for having an unstable, work schedule

01:02:06.380 --> 01:02:11.500
the loss of relationships that can happen um

01:02:11.500 --> 01:02:20.000
we can't pay anybody enough risk of cancer all

01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:26.820
of it like who would ever do that job yeah exactly

01:02:26.820 --> 01:02:29.099
i mean even the thing is as a profession like

01:02:29.099 --> 01:02:31.639
both of both of us us and law enforcement i was

01:02:31.639 --> 01:02:34.460
saying that someone the other day If you were

01:02:34.460 --> 01:02:37.400
going to go work for Publix and, you know, when

01:02:37.400 --> 01:02:38.980
you're in there, someone comes out and is like,

01:02:39.039 --> 01:02:40.719
oh, you wait 10 years from now, you'll be on

01:02:40.719 --> 01:02:42.420
your third marriage and have an alcohol problem.

01:02:42.980 --> 01:02:44.980
you are not going to be making pub subs for a

01:02:44.980 --> 01:02:46.320
living. You're going to be like, screw this,

01:02:46.380 --> 01:02:48.880
I'm going somewhere else. That is the profession

01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:51.699
that we've got. And it's insane. You know, and

01:02:51.699 --> 01:02:54.420
then, yeah, I mean, we are known to live usually

01:02:54.420 --> 01:02:56.840
about five or six years past retirement. That's

01:02:56.840 --> 01:02:59.519
it. So you put all that time in, you risk your

01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:01.760
life, you miss all these important things with

01:03:01.760 --> 01:03:04.340
your family, and then you drop dead, you know.

01:03:04.679 --> 01:03:06.340
That's not what should happen. If you're going

01:03:06.340 --> 01:03:07.980
to have these men and women that make this ultimate

01:03:07.980 --> 01:03:09.940
sacrifice, you know, the well, you know, the

01:03:09.940 --> 01:03:13.420
service that I think I think we make up like

01:03:13.420 --> 01:03:15.380
one percent of the population, if I'm not mistaken.

01:03:16.119 --> 01:03:19.260
And then that shortens your lifespan so much.

01:03:19.260 --> 01:03:21.300
You don't even get to do anything when you retire

01:03:21.300 --> 01:03:23.840
and see your grandkids. I think it's disgusting.

01:03:24.039 --> 01:03:26.460
And, you know, kind of transition a little bit

01:03:26.460 --> 01:03:30.929
to get your perspective on. the city and or county

01:03:30.929 --> 01:03:33.269
council members because i remember a few years

01:03:33.269 --> 01:03:35.889
ago i mean not marion county firefighters were

01:03:35.889 --> 01:03:37.869
woefully underpaid and i think when i first moved

01:03:37.869 --> 01:03:40.650
here firefighter emt was like nine dollars fifty

01:03:40.650 --> 01:03:43.329
cents and that's two separate careers that's

01:03:43.329 --> 01:03:45.730
the swiss army knife of the first responder profession

01:03:45.730 --> 01:03:49.889
aside from actually being a paramedic and i'll

01:03:49.889 --> 01:03:51.630
say it because it's public knowledge and the

01:03:51.630 --> 01:03:54.050
video is out there carl zalek who again another

01:03:54.050 --> 01:03:56.750
one strutting around his little cowboy hat doing

01:03:56.750 --> 01:03:59.869
his, you know, narcissistic videos, laughed at

01:03:59.869 --> 01:04:02.429
our firefighters when they asked for a pay raise.

01:04:02.949 --> 01:04:06.110
And that is disgusting. These men and women are

01:04:06.110 --> 01:04:10.010
working 56 hours a week for $9 .50 or whatever

01:04:10.010 --> 01:04:12.590
they were on that pay scale at that point. And

01:04:12.590 --> 01:04:16.110
you're laughing at them for wanting a wage when,

01:04:16.170 --> 01:04:18.289
you know, one day he's going to be staring up

01:04:18.289 --> 01:04:21.070
at a Marion County paramedic or EMT because,

01:04:21.130 --> 01:04:22.829
you know, we're all going to need them one day.

01:04:23.260 --> 01:04:25.800
And you view them with that much disdain that

01:04:25.800 --> 01:04:28.639
you will outwardly laugh when they ask for a

01:04:28.639 --> 01:04:31.380
livable wage. I think it's disgusting. And these

01:04:31.380 --> 01:04:33.820
are the kind of people that we see in these council

01:04:33.820 --> 01:04:38.420
positions that are in themselves the barriers

01:04:38.420 --> 01:04:42.260
to the first responders having a healthy environment

01:04:42.260 --> 01:04:44.880
and the taxpayer actually getting the response

01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:48.679
that they think they're going to get. I do blame

01:04:48.679 --> 01:04:53.440
a little bit county administration for not. letting

01:04:53.440 --> 01:04:58.159
the commissioners know that they were approving

01:04:58.159 --> 01:05:04.719
lots of growth to our community without having

01:05:04.719 --> 01:05:07.320
the infrastructure in place. We need to remember

01:05:07.320 --> 01:05:10.559
that a lot of these council and commissioners

01:05:10.559 --> 01:05:15.659
really have no experience in planning. And so

01:05:15.659 --> 01:05:20.119
they rely on staff to tell them, okay. And it

01:05:20.119 --> 01:05:21.719
sounds logical. Like if you're going to have,

01:05:22.010 --> 01:05:25.750
people over to your house, you worry about, do

01:05:25.750 --> 01:05:27.329
you have enough parking? Do you have enough food?

01:05:27.469 --> 01:05:31.730
Do you have enough water? Do I need to rent porta

01:05:31.730 --> 01:05:35.409
-potties? It's just logical stuff. But for some

01:05:35.409 --> 01:05:40.369
reason, when it comes to public safety, for a

01:05:40.369 --> 01:05:43.030
while there, because of the economy, they would

01:05:43.030 --> 01:05:45.570
say, I think it was about eight years, there

01:05:45.570 --> 01:05:49.889
were no pay raises. No anything. So we were really

01:05:49.889 --> 01:05:54.110
behind. But now it's better. It's competitive

01:05:54.110 --> 01:05:59.489
now. But it took, honestly, it took a lot of

01:05:59.489 --> 01:06:04.130
union work to get it switched around. I used

01:06:04.130 --> 01:06:06.409
to really frown on unions, to be honest with

01:06:06.409 --> 01:06:10.309
you. I've changed my tune. I used to really be

01:06:10.309 --> 01:06:12.489
offended with some of the things that they would

01:06:12.489 --> 01:06:15.630
do to promote their candidates because it was.

01:06:16.750 --> 01:06:20.230
Not always the most ethical means. But when it

01:06:20.230 --> 01:06:23.809
came to this particular issue, they had to push

01:06:23.809 --> 01:06:28.210
back against Zalek and endorse other candidates

01:06:28.210 --> 01:06:30.909
against him. I can't believe he's still there,

01:06:31.010 --> 01:06:36.170
honestly. He's up for election this year. No,

01:06:36.269 --> 01:06:39.969
next year. And he's already served 16 years.

01:06:41.550 --> 01:06:43.409
I'm surprised somebody in the fire department

01:06:43.409 --> 01:06:50.050
alone doesn't say, okay, I'll do this next. But

01:06:50.050 --> 01:06:53.190
something's better than nothing. He has come

01:06:53.190 --> 01:06:57.269
around a little bit. Could we have better leadership?

01:06:58.170 --> 01:07:03.150
I think so. I think his track record shows that

01:07:03.150 --> 01:07:07.590
he doesn't have a grasp on what it takes. And

01:07:07.590 --> 01:07:09.070
it's funny that you bring up those videos. I

01:07:09.070 --> 01:07:11.889
haven't reported this yet. It's an example of

01:07:11.889 --> 01:07:17.010
how government can really force a certain narrative.

01:07:17.070 --> 01:07:20.389
Those videos, he is using tourism tax dollars

01:07:20.389 --> 01:07:25.190
to create them. $275 ,000 just this year for

01:07:25.190 --> 01:07:28.630
those insider videos. That's insane. You've got

01:07:28.630 --> 01:07:31.449
local journalism. We're producing videos on how

01:07:31.449 --> 01:07:35.889
people are dying at an abnormal rate at the jail.

01:07:36.050 --> 01:07:41.840
I wish I had $275 ,000. to produce them and push

01:07:41.840 --> 01:07:45.000
them out into the community. But it's an example

01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:47.119
of how government can control the narrative.

01:07:49.260 --> 01:07:53.280
Yeah, leaving them in the funding for more firefighters.

01:07:53.860 --> 01:07:57.900
I love this town. I love the horse culture here.

01:07:57.960 --> 01:08:01.650
I'm a son of a horse vet myself. But that million

01:08:01.650 --> 01:08:04.130
and something dollar sculpture that went up on

01:08:04.130 --> 01:08:06.170
the bridge as you come in, you're telling me

01:08:06.170 --> 01:08:09.230
that was more important than having a fully staffed

01:08:09.230 --> 01:08:11.550
first responder community? So that was paid with

01:08:11.550 --> 01:08:14.349
tourism development tax. And it was $4 million,

01:08:14.570 --> 01:08:18.869
by the way. $4 million? Yes. Oh, my God. Yes.

01:08:18.949 --> 01:08:22.449
It is a pretty sign. But it was used, it was

01:08:22.449 --> 01:08:27.369
paid for with the bed tax, which if... So the

01:08:27.369 --> 01:08:29.609
people that are visiting that would need to...

01:08:29.880 --> 01:08:32.079
Call 911 if they had an issue and have local

01:08:32.079 --> 01:08:34.479
first responders deal with them. You're dead

01:08:34.479 --> 01:08:36.560
on right. You're dead on right. And actually,

01:08:36.600 --> 01:08:41.180
it's not just them. It's anybody who is renting

01:08:41.180 --> 01:08:43.720
even month to month, technically, is supposed

01:08:43.720 --> 01:08:48.420
to be charged the bed tax, which burdens the

01:08:48.420 --> 01:08:54.000
poor. So that's a whole other subject. Well,

01:08:54.020 --> 01:08:55.960
you mentioned the jail center. Let's talk about

01:08:55.960 --> 01:08:58.560
that. And it's, again, even further away from

01:08:58.560 --> 01:09:04.100
my understanding. I'm a huge, again, advocate

01:09:04.100 --> 01:09:06.720
for any proactive programs. I mean, I've had

01:09:06.720 --> 01:09:09.920
the supervisor from Bastoy Prison in Norway on

01:09:09.920 --> 01:09:13.670
a couple of times. And there are so many. incredible

01:09:13.670 --> 01:09:17.090
models that vastly reduce recidivism. Because,

01:09:17.149 --> 01:09:19.050
I mean, ultimately the goal is to not fill our

01:09:19.050 --> 01:09:21.470
prisons. And then you look at here, we have,

01:09:21.489 --> 01:09:23.609
you know, a lot of private profit -based prisons.

01:09:23.649 --> 01:09:27.130
We have workforces that are working for corporate

01:09:27.130 --> 01:09:31.229
companies as prisoners for pennies. So, you know,

01:09:31.250 --> 01:09:33.649
behind the scenes, obviously there's some, you

01:09:33.649 --> 01:09:35.569
know, a lot of things that we, the average taxpayer,

01:09:35.710 --> 01:09:38.569
don't realize are going on. And a lot of models

01:09:38.569 --> 01:09:40.989
in other countries that are far more effective

01:09:40.989 --> 01:09:43.609
than the way we do it now. But that being said,

01:09:43.630 --> 01:09:45.350
that's the only kind of area I've really talked

01:09:45.350 --> 01:09:47.789
about. What are some of the issues that we're

01:09:47.789 --> 01:09:49.949
having locally in our prisons and jails at the

01:09:49.949 --> 01:09:54.649
moment? So we have a very high recidivism rate.

01:09:54.850 --> 01:10:01.430
If you pulled the list, you'd have people arrested

01:10:01.430 --> 01:10:06.289
90 times, 60 times, 50 times, lots of them. And

01:10:06.289 --> 01:10:09.670
it's because they're usually homeless, mentally

01:10:09.670 --> 01:10:13.199
ill, and so they're in the system. Unfortunately,

01:10:13.199 --> 01:10:16.979
as a society, we've criminalized this and we

01:10:16.979 --> 01:10:19.800
don't have leadership that's able to have a full

01:10:19.800 --> 01:10:25.960
conversation. So, for example, say there's one

01:10:25.960 --> 01:10:29.359
inmate that died. He was 39 years old. He was

01:10:29.359 --> 01:10:34.779
on probation and didn't pass a drug test, a urinalysis

01:10:34.779 --> 01:10:39.000
test. And so they arrested him and put him in

01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:44.289
jail. there was a time where you would hear members

01:10:44.289 --> 01:10:46.069
of the public say, well, he's at the jail, he's

01:10:46.069 --> 01:10:50.449
detoxing, it should be okay at least. No, the

01:10:50.449 --> 01:10:54.010
jail is a very dangerous place to detox. They

01:10:54.010 --> 01:10:58.029
don't have what they need. And this particular

01:10:58.029 --> 01:11:01.949
young man ended up becoming very sick with meningitis

01:11:01.949 --> 01:11:04.949
while he was there. And rather than take him

01:11:04.949 --> 01:11:08.930
to the ER, they basically let him die in the

01:11:08.930 --> 01:11:12.189
jail. And when he couldn't get up to obey an

01:11:12.189 --> 01:11:15.350
order in the infirmary, couldn't get up to obey

01:11:15.350 --> 01:11:19.770
to have restraints put on him, they pepper sprayed

01:11:19.770 --> 01:11:24.229
him. Like the day he's dying because he can't

01:11:24.229 --> 01:11:29.710
move. So this is just one story. It's not isolated.

01:11:30.170 --> 01:11:34.390
And so what happened, the reason we started investigating

01:11:34.390 --> 01:11:38.010
is we were really focused on the mentally ill.

01:11:39.770 --> 01:11:41.569
press release comes from the sheriff's office

01:11:41.569 --> 01:11:44.270
that acknowledges there was an in custody death

01:11:44.270 --> 01:11:48.109
of a man named Scott Whitley. He was schizophrenic.

01:11:48.130 --> 01:11:51.090
He was held. This is not what they told us in

01:11:51.090 --> 01:11:53.210
the press release and the press release. They

01:11:53.210 --> 01:12:00.609
made it sound like there was a, he was not submitting

01:12:00.609 --> 01:12:04.109
to restraints and so, and became combative. And

01:12:04.109 --> 01:12:10.399
so in the incident, he was tased and died. We

01:12:10.399 --> 01:12:14.180
found out he was schizophrenic, held naked in

01:12:14.180 --> 01:12:16.920
a cell, a concrete cell with no bedding, no anything,

01:12:17.140 --> 01:12:26.500
no meds for a week. He was arrested on a civil,

01:12:26.680 --> 01:12:29.579
he didn't want to leave his home and he was being

01:12:29.579 --> 01:12:34.840
evicted. So they asked him, they said they want

01:12:34.840 --> 01:12:40.229
to do a cell inspection. In that interchange,

01:12:40.649 --> 01:12:46.430
six guards beat him. One has a taser by his neck

01:12:46.430 --> 01:12:50.130
and the other by his groin. 27 times they tase

01:12:50.130 --> 01:12:54.810
him. Oh, my God. It's all caught on video. And

01:12:54.810 --> 01:12:58.829
I'm like, I want to see the video. And the jail

01:12:58.829 --> 01:13:04.229
gets to claim security exemptions. So what they

01:13:04.229 --> 01:13:08.409
do is. We learn of incidents like this and they're

01:13:08.409 --> 01:13:10.590
like, yeah, sorry, can't give it to you because

01:13:10.590 --> 01:13:15.289
it's all exempt. Florida statute exempts any

01:13:15.289 --> 01:13:21.970
facility. So there is a way to seek a court's

01:13:21.970 --> 01:13:25.229
help to overcome the exemption if we can prove

01:13:25.229 --> 01:13:27.770
that it's in the public's best interest. So it

01:13:27.770 --> 01:13:30.750
took a while, but we found a lawyer because Whitley

01:13:30.750 --> 01:13:34.939
died in November of 2022. We found a lawyer eventually

01:13:34.939 --> 01:13:36.880
that would help us file a lawsuit against the

01:13:36.880 --> 01:13:41.420
sheriff's office to see the video. The family

01:13:41.420 --> 01:13:44.539
was able to see the video under a gag order and

01:13:44.539 --> 01:13:49.140
they told us he complied and they still did this

01:13:49.140 --> 01:13:54.680
to him. So our argument to the court was handling

01:13:54.680 --> 01:13:58.600
the mentally ill is a societal problem. We need

01:13:58.600 --> 01:14:01.890
to show the public. what happens to these people

01:14:01.890 --> 01:14:04.930
when they end up in our judicial system. And

01:14:04.930 --> 01:14:10.289
it was interesting because the court heard our

01:14:10.289 --> 01:14:16.949
testimony and then said he would issue his order.

01:14:18.010 --> 01:14:21.850
The next morning, he entered an order recusing

01:14:21.850 --> 01:14:26.590
himself. And it got sent to a judge outside our

01:14:26.590 --> 01:14:29.489
county, which is... highly unusual for a judge

01:14:29.489 --> 01:14:35.770
to hear a case and then a case be transferred.

01:14:36.810 --> 01:14:40.529
I have a lot of respect for the judiciary and

01:14:40.529 --> 01:14:43.750
the confines in which they have to make decisions.

01:14:43.989 --> 01:14:46.010
If a judge feels like he needs to recuse himself,

01:14:46.350 --> 01:14:49.229
he should recuse himself. But the next judge

01:14:49.229 --> 01:14:52.350
entered an order in our favor. The only thing

01:14:52.350 --> 01:14:56.090
he said is, you can't release this video to the

01:14:56.090 --> 01:14:58.350
public. But the sheriff has to let you see it.

01:14:58.630 --> 01:15:01.369
So me and another reporter, Caroline, we went

01:15:01.369 --> 01:15:03.810
to the sheriff's office. We sat in the room with

01:15:03.810 --> 01:15:07.649
the same public information officer that lied

01:15:07.649 --> 01:15:11.670
to us about what happened and watched the video.

01:15:12.829 --> 01:15:17.909
And sure enough, this man, before they rush him,

01:15:18.029 --> 01:15:21.390
they tell him to sit on the toilet. And we saw

01:15:21.390 --> 01:15:24.510
him sit. And as they are rushing him, put up

01:15:24.510 --> 01:15:29.859
his hands like. In defense of, please, no. And

01:15:29.859 --> 01:15:34.199
they still slammed him into the wall and did

01:15:34.199 --> 01:15:39.420
what they did. Then we realized by looking at

01:15:39.420 --> 01:15:41.500
the timestamp that they waited six minutes to

01:15:41.500 --> 01:15:49.579
call for EMS. He was already dead. But that having

01:15:49.579 --> 01:15:53.939
that aha moment of watching it and going, wait

01:15:53.939 --> 01:15:58.310
a second. FDLE investigated this one, and they

01:15:58.310 --> 01:16:01.369
didn't correct the sheriff's narrative. The state

01:16:01.369 --> 01:16:04.189
attorney watched this. They didn't correct the

01:16:04.189 --> 01:16:07.670
sheriff's narrative. If it had been six people,

01:16:07.770 --> 01:16:12.090
not guards, that had rushed this mentally ill

01:16:12.090 --> 01:16:15.050
man and killed him, they would be facing charges

01:16:15.050 --> 01:16:18.590
probably. But instead, because they're guards

01:16:18.590 --> 01:16:23.430
that work for the sheriff's office, it's covered

01:16:23.430 --> 01:16:26.260
up. And once we realized, OK, wait a second,

01:16:26.319 --> 01:16:29.319
there are so many people willing to lie about

01:16:29.319 --> 01:16:33.500
this. What else is happening here? It even surprised

01:16:33.500 --> 01:16:39.000
us. So we asked the question, can we have all

01:16:39.000 --> 01:16:41.239
of the incident reports for in custody deaths?

01:16:44.880 --> 01:16:48.340
I think we got like 27. Oh, my goodness. Within

01:16:48.340 --> 01:16:53.380
a time frame of just a couple of years. And so.

01:16:54.199 --> 01:16:58.560
We reached out to FDLE and we asked, can we have

01:16:58.560 --> 01:17:00.920
the in -custody death reports that the sheriff

01:17:00.920 --> 01:17:04.880
is supposed to file? Well, they had 17. And then

01:17:04.880 --> 01:17:07.739
we asked the state attorney's office, how many

01:17:07.739 --> 01:17:11.600
in -custody deaths have you investigated? Basically,

01:17:11.659 --> 01:17:14.340
they had investigated none. All they gave us

01:17:14.340 --> 01:17:20.409
was three FDLE. of investigations for in -custody

01:17:20.409 --> 01:17:22.989
deaths. And one of them, FDLE and the Sheriff's

01:17:22.989 --> 01:17:25.050
Office hadn't given us, but I had known about.

01:17:25.369 --> 01:17:27.869
I just didn't know how to get to, so I was grateful.

01:17:28.270 --> 01:17:33.149
But tracking down how many had died, we learned

01:17:33.149 --> 01:17:39.210
that even though there's this federal in -custody

01:17:39.210 --> 01:17:42.989
death reporting act, there's no state mechanism

01:17:42.989 --> 01:17:47.619
in Florida to enforce it. In this particular

01:17:47.619 --> 01:17:50.039
case, I was concerned about the medical provider

01:17:50.039 --> 01:17:53.399
at the jail that also provides services to Sumter

01:17:53.399 --> 01:17:57.699
County Jail. So I asked FDLE for all the in -custody

01:17:57.699 --> 01:18:01.960
death reporting for Sumter and Marion. And at

01:18:01.960 --> 01:18:04.159
a state level, we have to get a lawyer involved

01:18:04.159 --> 01:18:06.699
anytime we make a records request. That's how

01:18:06.699 --> 01:18:10.680
bad the transparency issues are. So we did our

01:18:10.680 --> 01:18:13.039
request for in -custody death reports, had our

01:18:13.039 --> 01:18:15.640
lawyer serve a notice of intent. give us the

01:18:15.640 --> 01:18:20.279
records. Because of that, the person fulfilling

01:18:20.279 --> 01:18:23.300
the records request called me. And this never

01:18:23.300 --> 01:18:26.279
happens. But she wanted me to understand what

01:18:26.279 --> 01:18:28.399
was wrong. She goes, I'm going to send you Marion

01:18:28.399 --> 01:18:30.180
County's, but there's none from Sumter, but I

01:18:30.180 --> 01:18:35.020
need you to understand why. These in custody

01:18:35.020 --> 01:18:38.100
death reports go to the grants department of

01:18:38.100 --> 01:18:41.680
FDLE. The only way we can enforce the federal,

01:18:41.800 --> 01:18:46.210
you know. Reporting Act is if they ask for grants

01:18:46.210 --> 01:18:47.970
and Sumter County hasn't asked for any grants.

01:18:49.569 --> 01:18:55.310
So Marion County Sheriff has. That's why they're

01:18:55.310 --> 01:18:58.289
there. I wonder about Sumter County, but I've

01:18:58.289 --> 01:19:02.510
since learned their guards wear body cams. And

01:19:02.510 --> 01:19:06.250
I've heard it's a little different there than

01:19:06.250 --> 01:19:11.189
what we see in Marion County. But once we realized.

01:19:12.039 --> 01:19:14.319
how many had died, and we started digging into

01:19:14.319 --> 01:19:19.819
what happened. There continued to be concerns

01:19:19.819 --> 01:19:23.159
about the guards beating people, particularly

01:19:23.159 --> 01:19:29.739
the mentally ill, but also clear evidence of

01:19:29.739 --> 01:19:36.699
medical neglect. So we started asking questions

01:19:36.699 --> 01:19:44.449
about that. It's led us to a point where, you

01:19:44.449 --> 01:19:48.590
know, our local in custody death rate at the

01:19:48.590 --> 01:19:51.609
jail is four times higher than the national average.

01:19:51.770 --> 01:19:55.529
Something is wrong. And yet from this reporting,

01:19:55.649 --> 01:19:58.010
community members have told me that they've gone

01:19:58.010 --> 01:20:02.050
to the sheriff. What's the problem? What's going

01:20:02.050 --> 01:20:06.279
on? And just last month, he told the county commissioners,

01:20:06.300 --> 01:20:08.920
Heart of Florida, which is the medical provider,

01:20:09.060 --> 01:20:11.800
is doing a great job no matter what you hear

01:20:11.800 --> 01:20:20.119
in those articles. What do you say to that? Like,

01:20:20.119 --> 01:20:25.380
who's in denial? So what we're trying to do is

01:20:25.380 --> 01:20:27.520
bring it in front of the public as much as possible.

01:20:27.539 --> 01:20:32.420
And really, what my hope is... There's a federal

01:20:32.420 --> 01:20:36.180
cause of action under, it's called Mundell. It's

01:20:36.180 --> 01:20:43.420
where you can prove that there is a, an agency

01:20:43.420 --> 01:20:48.159
has created a policy facilitates a violation

01:20:48.159 --> 01:20:52.699
of people's constitutional rights. You should

01:20:52.699 --> 01:20:55.579
not be tortured in a local jail waiting for your

01:20:55.579 --> 01:20:59.539
day in court. If you're epileptic, you should

01:20:59.539 --> 01:21:01.750
be given your meds. I mean, we're talking real

01:21:01.750 --> 01:21:04.069
basics. And yet that's what's happening at the

01:21:04.069 --> 01:21:08.970
Marion County Jail. It's horrible. One whistleblower

01:21:08.970 --> 01:21:12.970
rose up around this time, a nurse. She was the

01:21:12.970 --> 01:21:15.949
medical liaison unsworn at the sheriff's office.

01:21:16.449 --> 01:21:21.810
I got the reports that she did for a good part

01:21:21.810 --> 01:21:25.710
of four years showing major deficiencies with

01:21:25.710 --> 01:21:29.489
Heart of Florida's staffing, the timing that

01:21:29.489 --> 01:21:34.609
they were responding to inmate sick calls. Instead

01:21:34.609 --> 01:21:39.829
of fixing it, they fired her and did not rehire

01:21:39.829 --> 01:21:41.909
anybody else to do the monitoring. So for the

01:21:41.909 --> 01:21:45.949
past year, since August of last year, all that

01:21:45.949 --> 01:21:49.989
reporting went away. And so a new major was put

01:21:49.989 --> 01:21:52.930
over the jail. So I was hopeful. I'm like, you

01:21:52.930 --> 01:21:55.390
know, maybe he'll fix things. So I asked the

01:21:55.390 --> 01:21:58.270
new major for an interview. I'm really hopeful

01:21:58.270 --> 01:22:00.859
for his success. I want to hear the things you're

01:22:00.859 --> 01:22:05.819
going to do. He declined. So at that point, we're

01:22:05.819 --> 01:22:09.260
like, there's no compliance reporting. We know

01:22:09.260 --> 01:22:12.699
people are still dying. We need to go to the

01:22:12.699 --> 01:22:16.100
public now because wrapped up in all these exemptions,

01:22:16.159 --> 01:22:20.239
they're able to hide what they're doing. So we

01:22:20.239 --> 01:22:24.680
did. We did a call to the public. We need families

01:22:24.680 --> 01:22:29.789
to step up. We need inmates. that have been abused

01:22:29.789 --> 01:22:33.229
this way to give us medical authorizations so

01:22:33.229 --> 01:22:43.050
we can review the records. And that's where we

01:22:43.050 --> 01:22:50.250
are now. How is the capacity in the jail? And

01:22:50.250 --> 01:22:54.779
then what about, again, the... The demand for

01:22:54.779 --> 01:22:57.699
people that work in the jail as far as it is

01:22:57.699 --> 01:23:00.739
it, you know, a high turnover, et cetera, et

01:23:00.739 --> 01:23:03.739
cetera. So the sheriff during the last budget

01:23:03.739 --> 01:23:07.819
meeting with the commissioners did say that they

01:23:07.819 --> 01:23:14.199
were. They did have some changeover. I can see

01:23:14.199 --> 01:23:16.779
somebody decent not wanting to work under those

01:23:16.779 --> 01:23:21.800
conditions. But they had a new. new batch that

01:23:21.800 --> 01:23:25.640
they were going to graduate. But I'm reading,

01:23:25.739 --> 01:23:30.159
like, for example, this year, we asked, I think

01:23:30.159 --> 01:23:33.140
it was in May, for all of the use of force reports

01:23:33.140 --> 01:23:37.520
for the jail, just for this year, from January

01:23:37.520 --> 01:23:42.000
to like through May, or June. And it was about

01:23:42.000 --> 01:23:44.939
100 of them. And so we went through each one,

01:23:45.039 --> 01:23:48.340
compared what was happening in their legal case.

01:23:49.149 --> 01:23:53.649
And looked at all the common factors. By far,

01:23:53.670 --> 01:23:55.710
some of these people were deemed incompetent

01:23:55.710 --> 01:23:59.789
by the courts even. And there's pictures of them,

01:23:59.829 --> 01:24:03.810
black and blue, strapped to a restraint chair

01:24:03.810 --> 01:24:12.350
for 15 hours. Like, really serious. consequences

01:24:12.350 --> 01:24:15.270
for being mentally ill. And yet, and the reason

01:24:15.270 --> 01:24:18.130
I had to order those use of force reports and

01:24:18.130 --> 01:24:20.569
do it the long way, the hard way, it was because

01:24:20.569 --> 01:24:22.770
the major said by email, although he would not

01:24:22.770 --> 01:24:25.710
give me the interview, that he had improved use

01:24:25.710 --> 01:24:30.149
of force since he came on board. If this is an

01:24:30.149 --> 01:24:37.550
improvement, God help us all. So now we're trying

01:24:37.550 --> 01:24:41.140
to figure out how do we report On that, because

01:24:41.140 --> 01:24:44.279
these people are still living and we want to

01:24:44.279 --> 01:24:50.260
somehow protect their dignity. But this is really

01:24:50.260 --> 01:24:53.140
a problem that involves the courts, too, because

01:24:53.140 --> 01:24:57.680
we have a mental health court. But it has very

01:24:57.680 --> 01:25:02.439
it has limitations. The person has to be compliant,

01:25:02.720 --> 01:25:05.140
willing to be part of the mental health court.

01:25:05.199 --> 01:25:09.979
Some of these people can't. They're just not

01:25:09.979 --> 01:25:13.359
able. They can't have any violence associated

01:25:13.359 --> 01:25:15.939
with their charges. Well, if you look at the

01:25:15.939 --> 01:25:18.239
charges of almost all of these people that we

01:25:18.239 --> 01:25:23.819
found use of force and incompetency proceedings

01:25:23.819 --> 01:25:28.060
on, they're charged with felony of battery on

01:25:28.060 --> 01:25:30.239
an officer. And it might have just been a scratch,

01:25:30.479 --> 01:25:36.539
but it's charges that keep them from ending up

01:25:36.539 --> 01:25:44.069
in the mental health court. So there's all these

01:25:44.069 --> 01:25:46.670
limitations and then nobody providing oversight

01:25:46.670 --> 01:25:50.449
for them. The judges aren't getting all these

01:25:50.449 --> 01:25:53.670
incident reports to know that the person they're

01:25:53.670 --> 01:25:58.149
waiting on a hearing for is being beaten because

01:25:58.149 --> 01:26:02.449
he's not getting his meds and they don't have

01:26:02.449 --> 01:26:07.069
the facilities to take care of them. So it's

01:26:07.069 --> 01:26:10.659
really a sad situation. So what we're trying

01:26:10.659 --> 01:26:14.560
to do is educate all these different supporting

01:26:14.560 --> 01:26:17.699
agencies like the court system. This is what's

01:26:17.699 --> 01:26:19.539
happening over at the jail that nobody's telling

01:26:19.539 --> 01:26:23.399
you. Because I'm sure a judge wouldn't sentence

01:26:23.399 --> 01:26:25.720
somebody on a misdemeanor charge knowing that

01:26:25.720 --> 01:26:28.199
it was going to kill them. A judge wouldn't.

01:26:29.760 --> 01:26:34.039
So, you know, what's the disconnect? I think

01:26:34.039 --> 01:26:35.859
the public thinks that all of these agencies

01:26:35.859 --> 01:26:39.750
talk more than they do. They don't. There's little

01:26:39.750 --> 01:26:43.010
to no accountability outside their community.

01:26:44.130 --> 01:26:46.869
That means the public has to stay engaged, and

01:26:46.869 --> 01:26:50.050
they need local journalists chasing down, getting

01:26:50.050 --> 01:26:53.449
past the barriers that are put up. I will say,

01:26:53.550 --> 01:26:56.649
doing this type of work, though, it also reminds

01:26:56.649 --> 01:27:01.390
me of how many good people there are, too. And

01:27:01.390 --> 01:27:04.229
these lone voices, like this whistleblower, this

01:27:04.229 --> 01:27:08.319
medical liaison. We need to hear those voices

01:27:08.319 --> 01:27:11.699
because they're being pushed out because they

01:27:11.699 --> 01:27:15.800
don't want to fix the problem. That's not right.

01:27:15.939 --> 01:27:21.779
And I think it's another reason why I worry about

01:27:21.779 --> 01:27:24.840
unions for law enforcement, because in our local

01:27:24.840 --> 01:27:27.039
area, I didn't realize it, but they are really

01:27:27.039 --> 01:27:30.119
just part of the Fraternal Order of Police. They're

01:27:30.119 --> 01:27:32.159
not part of the Police Benevolence Association

01:27:32.159 --> 01:27:37.279
that much. One is definitely stronger than another

01:27:37.279 --> 01:27:44.439
in protecting their workers. I have come to sort

01:27:44.439 --> 01:27:49.000
of an opinion that OPD and Marion County Sheriff's

01:27:49.000 --> 01:27:54.340
Office, if they had stronger union support, would

01:27:54.340 --> 01:27:59.739
be able to defend and speak truth to power in

01:27:59.739 --> 01:28:05.229
their own agency. When you're talking about accountability,

01:28:05.350 --> 01:28:07.970
when I reflect again, I remember saying, all

01:28:07.970 --> 01:28:10.710
right, if people, what happened with my son,

01:28:10.850 --> 01:28:13.710
because they basically kidnapped my child is

01:28:13.710 --> 01:28:16.670
what happened. So where's the checks and balances?

01:28:16.710 --> 01:28:20.350
And they were like, I said, so you can basically

01:28:20.350 --> 01:28:23.529
do this on a whim and there is no repercussions

01:28:23.529 --> 01:28:25.329
whatsoever at that point yet, which is again

01:28:25.329 --> 01:28:26.909
when the law changed and now there would be.

01:28:27.210 --> 01:28:29.649
But this is the issue is that these are, you

01:28:29.649 --> 01:28:32.590
know, these decisions are. Costing lives, costing

01:28:32.590 --> 01:28:34.989
mental health, whatever it is. And I think from

01:28:34.989 --> 01:28:37.210
the jail and from the prison point of view, on

01:28:37.210 --> 01:28:39.050
the other side of the coin again, trying to be

01:28:39.050 --> 01:28:43.609
fair, obviously not these extreme levels of abuse

01:28:43.609 --> 01:28:47.090
because that's its own thing. But these corrections

01:28:47.090 --> 01:28:50.090
officers are in prison too. 12 -hour shifts,

01:28:50.310 --> 01:28:53.949
don't see daylight, outnumbered. Again, understaffed,

01:28:53.949 --> 01:28:57.590
overworked. I know someone who works from the

01:28:57.590 --> 01:29:02.340
nursing side. She's treated awfully. Um, so yeah,

01:29:02.420 --> 01:29:04.119
I mean, this is, this is a systemic problem.

01:29:04.239 --> 01:29:06.920
And then again, like you said, we're talking

01:29:06.920 --> 01:29:09.520
about proactivity and the facetivism is that

01:29:09.520 --> 01:29:12.159
high and you don't have the ability to deal with

01:29:12.159 --> 01:29:13.680
these mental health issues. And let's circle

01:29:13.680 --> 01:29:15.760
around to your father and all these other, but

01:29:15.760 --> 01:29:18.079
that's a mental health issue. These people didn't,

01:29:18.079 --> 01:29:20.439
you know. weren't giggling toddlers going oh

01:29:20.439 --> 01:29:22.359
i hope i have you know schizophrenia when i'm

01:29:22.359 --> 01:29:25.340
older or ptsd or i hope i'm addicted to to meth

01:29:25.340 --> 01:29:28.140
no the things happened to them and it took them

01:29:28.140 --> 01:29:31.180
down that road and we don't look at look at it

01:29:31.180 --> 01:29:33.439
with empathy and it blows my mind because i see

01:29:33.439 --> 01:29:35.600
a lot of churches around here and other you know

01:29:35.600 --> 01:29:38.399
places of worship Pretty sure Jesus wouldn't

01:29:38.399 --> 01:29:40.199
be like, well, just lock them up and then slap

01:29:40.199 --> 01:29:41.539
them around a little bit. That will bring them

01:29:41.539 --> 01:29:43.460
around from their addiction. No, of course not.

01:29:43.720 --> 01:29:45.819
So we're even disconnected from the very faith

01:29:45.819 --> 01:29:47.859
that's supposed to be embedded in this area.

01:29:48.680 --> 01:29:51.899
And again, there are solutions. There are places

01:29:51.899 --> 01:29:53.659
around the world where it works really well.

01:29:54.500 --> 01:29:56.739
Norway's compassionate version of prison. And

01:29:56.739 --> 01:29:59.039
don't get me wrong, that turd that shut up that

01:29:59.039 --> 01:30:02.140
summer camp in Norway, he's in a box. like Hannibal

01:30:02.140 --> 01:30:05.579
Lecter. But the rest of them, they realize that

01:30:05.579 --> 01:30:08.600
there is an ability to rehabilitate them. They're

01:30:08.600 --> 01:30:11.319
in houses. They've lost their freedom, but they

01:30:11.319 --> 01:30:13.079
live together in a house. They cook, they clean,

01:30:13.159 --> 01:30:15.140
they go to work, they go to school. Because one

01:30:15.140 --> 01:30:17.439
day they are going to move next door to you.

01:30:17.500 --> 01:30:19.300
They're going to move back to your street. And

01:30:19.300 --> 01:30:21.260
this is the philosophy that I don't see here.

01:30:21.979 --> 01:30:23.899
You know, again, these sheriffs, you know, beating

01:30:23.899 --> 01:30:25.659
their chest, talking about how tough they are

01:30:25.659 --> 01:30:28.119
on whatever. Well, we know that war on drugs

01:30:28.119 --> 01:30:31.279
is an epic failure of 80 plus years. And you're

01:30:31.279 --> 01:30:34.399
buying into that. It's not worked. You know,

01:30:34.439 --> 01:30:37.520
addiction is a mental health crisis. And can

01:30:37.520 --> 01:30:40.039
you get everyone? No, but we could make a huge

01:30:40.039 --> 01:30:43.270
impact, not only on the civilians, but. I mean,

01:30:43.289 --> 01:30:45.109
you know, I know of many firefighters locally,

01:30:45.210 --> 01:30:46.890
there was an opioid overdose that killed them.

01:30:46.949 --> 01:30:49.510
And then we have the suicides. So in uniform,

01:30:49.649 --> 01:30:51.869
out uniform, it's the same exact conversation.

01:30:52.029 --> 01:30:55.250
You don't fix it with locking people in cages.

01:30:55.649 --> 01:30:58.810
You fix it with proactively. figuring out what

01:30:58.810 --> 01:31:01.470
is the root cause of this and how can we address

01:31:01.470 --> 01:31:05.050
that and invest in addiction counseling and mental

01:31:05.050 --> 01:31:07.229
health counseling and job creation and housing

01:31:07.229 --> 01:31:09.689
and these things that will put people back on

01:31:09.689 --> 01:31:12.029
their feet and the ones that are really beyond

01:31:12.029 --> 01:31:14.770
help that have these extreme mental health disorders.

01:31:14.789 --> 01:31:16.970
Those are the ones then that you're able to put

01:31:16.970 --> 01:31:19.489
in these facilities and take care of. Yeah, I

01:31:19.489 --> 01:31:24.250
agree. I think that one of the challenges is

01:31:24.250 --> 01:31:27.789
shame. So, for example, if somebody was arrested

01:31:27.789 --> 01:31:34.250
and abused at the jail, they probably don't want

01:31:34.250 --> 01:31:38.829
me writing about it. So I'm trying to navigate,

01:31:39.069 --> 01:31:41.850
you know, how do I tell these stories? How do

01:31:41.850 --> 01:31:44.510
I get families to be honest about what's happening?

01:31:44.609 --> 01:31:47.289
There was one family who was new to Marion County,

01:31:47.390 --> 01:31:51.369
and they had a schizophrenic daughter that they

01:31:51.369 --> 01:31:55.340
called officers to Baker Actor. They could tell

01:31:55.340 --> 01:32:00.359
she had a cycle of just needing an intervention

01:32:00.359 --> 01:32:03.180
greater than what they could give. But the mother

01:32:03.180 --> 01:32:06.819
had taken care of her daughter as good as she

01:32:06.819 --> 01:32:12.880
could. They came to their house. They handled

01:32:12.880 --> 01:32:16.699
it poorly. And when they went to grab her hands

01:32:16.699 --> 01:32:21.260
to take her, she started flailing. I don't think

01:32:21.260 --> 01:32:24.810
she was. trying to hurt the officers, but she

01:32:24.810 --> 01:32:28.270
had a ball she was holding. And they tackled

01:32:28.270 --> 01:32:30.949
her to the ground and tased her in front of her

01:32:30.949 --> 01:32:39.270
son, her mother, her sister. Then they got her

01:32:39.270 --> 01:32:44.529
outside and medics looked at her. I got to hand

01:32:44.529 --> 01:32:46.390
it to those medics. I was so proud of them when

01:32:46.390 --> 01:32:50.340
I watched the video. the body cam footage because

01:32:50.340 --> 01:32:52.399
they put her in the ambulance and asked her questions

01:32:52.399 --> 01:32:57.720
and at that point law enforcement deputies sheriff's

01:32:57.720 --> 01:32:59.300
office had decided that they were going to charge

01:32:59.300 --> 01:33:05.000
her with three counts of felony battery on an

01:33:05.000 --> 01:33:08.539
officer and the supervisor came and told the

01:33:08.539 --> 01:33:12.340
medics go ahead let's just take her to the jail

01:33:12.340 --> 01:33:14.960
the nurse will check her out and the medics were

01:33:14.960 --> 01:33:18.130
like no She's not okay. We need to take her to

01:33:18.130 --> 01:33:21.130
the hospital. And they had to stand there in

01:33:21.130 --> 01:33:23.989
the street arguing with a superior officer at

01:33:23.989 --> 01:33:26.670
the sheriff's office just to get this woman care.

01:33:26.930 --> 01:33:29.270
That's moral courage, though. Yes, I was so proud

01:33:29.270 --> 01:33:31.750
of them. I wish they could have heard me clapping,

01:33:31.989 --> 01:33:35.609
you know. And I think that happens probably more

01:33:35.609 --> 01:33:38.989
often than the public realizes. But this poor

01:33:38.989 --> 01:33:44.090
family ended up having to spend so much money

01:33:44.090 --> 01:33:50.529
to get their... loved one out of jail the the

01:33:50.529 --> 01:33:55.729
the person was traumatized more certainly we

01:33:55.729 --> 01:33:58.529
have to have a better system than this she wasn't

01:33:58.529 --> 01:34:05.090
a criminal she wanted her ball like yeah i mean

01:34:05.090 --> 01:34:06.750
even some of the people i've had on the show

01:34:06.750 --> 01:34:09.069
that are first responders that also have special

01:34:09.069 --> 01:34:12.029
needs children you know i mean and they're educated

01:34:12.029 --> 01:34:14.979
and i was kind of late to the education on this

01:34:14.979 --> 01:34:16.560
one i was pretty much out of my career when i

01:34:16.560 --> 01:34:18.840
started having these conversations but you know

01:34:18.840 --> 01:34:22.859
the the down syndrome um you know men and women

01:34:22.859 --> 01:34:25.840
have a very high tolerance for pain so if they're

01:34:25.840 --> 01:34:27.680
presenting you know like they're in discomfort

01:34:27.680 --> 01:34:29.699
there's probably something really wrong you know

01:34:29.699 --> 01:34:31.840
autism you know you you've got someone who's

01:34:31.840 --> 01:34:33.560
autistic and now you know they're pulled over

01:34:33.560 --> 01:34:36.619
by law enforcement Can that be misinterpreted

01:34:36.619 --> 01:34:39.699
with violence or a threat? And now they've been

01:34:39.699 --> 01:34:42.100
killed and they were just freaked out because

01:34:42.100 --> 01:34:44.779
a dude in a tactical vest and a gun on his hip

01:34:44.779 --> 01:34:48.319
presented the wrong way. And so these are the

01:34:48.319 --> 01:34:50.579
nuances, even taking out mental health, just

01:34:50.579 --> 01:34:52.840
some of our special needs population and how

01:34:52.840 --> 01:34:55.500
some of them have been beaten up or even killed.

01:34:56.239 --> 01:34:58.460
Absolutely. And these families are now afraid

01:34:58.460 --> 01:35:02.020
to call for help. They're afraid to call for

01:35:02.020 --> 01:35:07.449
help. That is dangerous because some of these

01:35:07.449 --> 01:35:11.250
people are dangerous. Some of them need to be

01:35:11.250 --> 01:35:14.229
forced to take their meds, but their families

01:35:14.229 --> 01:35:19.170
are trying to protect them. And that's really

01:35:19.170 --> 01:35:24.130
a societal problem. How do we support the families

01:35:24.130 --> 01:35:27.810
trying to take care of special needs folks that

01:35:27.810 --> 01:35:33.579
need interventions on a regular basis? And in

01:35:33.579 --> 01:35:36.439
that particular case with this family, when they

01:35:36.439 --> 01:35:38.920
arrested her instead, because after the hospital,

01:35:39.020 --> 01:35:43.619
she was taken to jail, the sheriff's office went

01:35:43.619 --> 01:35:48.439
on Facebook and bragged about their arrest of

01:35:48.439 --> 01:35:52.560
a woman who committed battery on law enforcement,

01:35:52.800 --> 01:35:56.079
not giving any of the context that the family

01:35:56.079 --> 01:35:59.039
had called to Baker actor, and that it was literally

01:35:59.039 --> 01:36:01.800
a scratch. I don't even know if they can prove

01:36:01.800 --> 01:36:08.359
that she scratched the officer. At some point,

01:36:08.380 --> 01:36:13.859
when you're trying to protect the public, sometimes

01:36:13.859 --> 01:36:16.760
you're also needing to protect the public from

01:36:16.760 --> 01:36:20.100
themselves. And I'm sure that's a really hard

01:36:20.100 --> 01:36:24.319
mentality, like a switch. But we need special

01:36:24.319 --> 01:36:28.680
training. We need maybe people that are specially

01:36:28.680 --> 01:36:31.619
trained. doing those calls instead of law enforcement

01:36:31.619 --> 01:36:37.680
maybe um something has to change yeah well it

01:36:37.680 --> 01:36:39.319
goes back to what we're saying sometimes yeah

01:36:39.319 --> 01:36:43.399
we're um put in the place where it should be

01:36:43.399 --> 01:36:45.300
maybe you know mental health practitioner and

01:36:45.300 --> 01:36:47.680
in our profession for example you know we have

01:36:47.680 --> 01:36:49.859
this combative patient then we're able to tie

01:36:49.859 --> 01:36:51.760
them to the stretcher and then you know give

01:36:51.760 --> 01:36:53.739
them drugs and calm them down you know but we're

01:36:53.739 --> 01:36:55.439
not fighting them we're not punching them in

01:36:55.439 --> 01:36:58.449
the face But yeah, there's other times where,

01:36:58.510 --> 01:37:01.729
you know, you're able to de -escalate or maybe

01:37:01.729 --> 01:37:03.970
avoid it in the first place just by the way you

01:37:03.970 --> 01:37:05.989
present and you understand these kind of, you

01:37:05.989 --> 01:37:07.470
know, whether it's a special needs person, whether

01:37:07.470 --> 01:37:09.130
it's someone with a mental health presentation.

01:37:09.770 --> 01:37:11.829
And I think we make it worse because we under

01:37:11.829 --> 01:37:14.069
-equip these police officers and again, under

01:37:14.069 --> 01:37:16.750
-train them. You know, the more the recruitment

01:37:16.750 --> 01:37:20.770
crisis, you know, becomes prevalent, the less

01:37:20.770 --> 01:37:23.289
experience these people have. Then we have, you

01:37:23.289 --> 01:37:26.079
know, a very violent. society so now obviously

01:37:26.079 --> 01:37:28.119
a lot of our law enforcement officers are murdered

01:37:28.119 --> 01:37:30.340
literally on a daily basis so then does that

01:37:30.340 --> 01:37:32.899
create more of a hair trigger of course we all

01:37:32.899 --> 01:37:35.319
want to go home to our families so i think this

01:37:35.319 --> 01:37:38.319
is the issue is it's not one place you know it's

01:37:38.319 --> 01:37:40.720
it's all all these tears you know whether it's

01:37:41.279 --> 01:37:43.640
The citizens themselves understanding what our

01:37:43.640 --> 01:37:45.439
first responders do, whether it's, you know,

01:37:45.439 --> 01:37:48.560
how we treat our own homeless and addicts. And,

01:37:48.579 --> 01:37:51.220
you know, again, no toddler dreamt of becoming

01:37:51.220 --> 01:37:53.199
in a gang, you know, joining a gang or becoming

01:37:53.199 --> 01:37:54.979
an addict. It's like, why are we not looking

01:37:54.979 --> 01:37:57.119
at with that compassionate, you know, Buddha,

01:37:57.199 --> 01:38:00.720
Jesus, insert your profit here lens on society.

01:38:01.180 --> 01:38:03.220
And then if we are going to ask these people

01:38:03.220 --> 01:38:05.920
to put on a uniform and mitigate everything else

01:38:05.920 --> 01:38:08.760
that we've got to get behind them, fund them,

01:38:08.819 --> 01:38:11.720
give a work week that's healthy. But absolutely

01:38:11.720 --> 01:38:15.220
put that bar high where it should be, because,

01:38:15.340 --> 01:38:17.640
you know, lives really are at stake. I can take

01:38:17.640 --> 01:38:19.800
a life with the wrong man and a cop can take

01:38:19.800 --> 01:38:24.420
a life with the taser or the pistol. I really

01:38:24.420 --> 01:38:30.720
think that on a broader scale, communities need

01:38:30.720 --> 01:38:32.899
to figure out a way to become connected again.

01:38:33.899 --> 01:38:36.159
Unfortunately, like families, for example, that

01:38:36.159 --> 01:38:43.829
have a special needs child that might. Feel hesitant

01:38:43.829 --> 01:38:46.630
to have other people around because they'll be

01:38:46.630 --> 01:38:50.050
impatient with the child or go out in public.

01:38:50.510 --> 01:38:54.689
They really have to live sort of isolated. And

01:38:54.689 --> 01:38:56.590
that's not fair. It's not good for the families

01:38:56.590 --> 01:39:01.829
trying to take care of them. And then also understanding

01:39:01.829 --> 01:39:04.609
being close with our community that the first

01:39:04.609 --> 01:39:06.609
responders need to be close to the community.

01:39:07.449 --> 01:39:13.020
You know, it's not just a job. I think that there

01:39:13.020 --> 01:39:16.479
is efforts and I would like to compliment particularly

01:39:16.479 --> 01:39:19.699
OPD on that. I do think they are doing more community

01:39:19.699 --> 01:39:27.699
outreach. So I do see slow recognition of we

01:39:27.699 --> 01:39:30.460
need to understand each other and that needs

01:39:30.460 --> 01:39:34.479
to be done on a greater level. People need to

01:39:34.479 --> 01:39:36.000
know who their neighbors are because technically

01:39:36.000 --> 01:39:40.029
that's your first responder. The person right

01:39:40.029 --> 01:39:43.010
next to you is your first responder. So if all

01:39:43.010 --> 01:39:45.890
of us were looking out for each of us, each other,

01:39:46.029 --> 01:39:49.670
whether it be walking past each other in a parking

01:39:49.670 --> 01:39:53.310
lot, seeing your neighbor slumped over in the

01:39:53.310 --> 01:40:00.630
yard, needing somebody, public safety is in all

01:40:00.630 --> 01:40:03.369
of our hands. It's not just first responders'

01:40:03.470 --> 01:40:06.170
job. And I think when we start taking responsibility

01:40:06.170 --> 01:40:11.909
for How am I protecting my family? What information

01:40:11.909 --> 01:40:15.210
do I need to protect my family and then my greater

01:40:15.210 --> 01:40:21.569
community? I think if people approached it that

01:40:21.569 --> 01:40:24.630
way, we'd have better conversations because they

01:40:24.630 --> 01:40:26.369
would feel it. They wouldn't wait till it impacts

01:40:26.369 --> 01:40:30.130
their family. They would be proactive. And that's

01:40:30.130 --> 01:40:33.029
what I hope reading our stories makes them think

01:40:33.029 --> 01:40:37.000
about. You know, if medics in our town are the

01:40:37.000 --> 01:40:41.520
fastest on scene, they often are. But they can't

01:40:41.520 --> 01:40:43.520
go into the home because it hasn't been cleared

01:40:43.520 --> 01:40:48.500
by law enforcement first. Like, the public needs

01:40:48.500 --> 01:40:52.319
to understand that. I mean, there are things

01:40:52.319 --> 01:40:57.579
that could be done, but they have to be demanded.

01:41:01.899 --> 01:41:05.420
As a kind of final comment, if you were queen

01:41:05.420 --> 01:41:09.119
for a day, what were the things that we need

01:41:09.119 --> 01:41:12.119
to start moving towards so we can change some

01:41:12.119 --> 01:41:17.640
of the issues that we highlighted today? I've

01:41:17.640 --> 01:41:20.800
been asked in the past what holds Marion County

01:41:20.800 --> 01:41:25.960
back from being the best it can be. And they

01:41:25.960 --> 01:41:28.560
thought I was going to automatically complain

01:41:28.560 --> 01:41:33.239
about our elected officials. And although there

01:41:33.239 --> 01:41:42.039
are some that need to be replaced, I think the

01:41:42.039 --> 01:41:47.279
cronyism is what protects the people that are

01:41:47.279 --> 01:41:52.960
doing the wrong thing. I think we need to normalize

01:41:52.960 --> 01:41:56.020
disagreeing with each other and calling powerful

01:41:56.020 --> 01:41:58.859
people out that are not doing the right thing.

01:42:01.000 --> 01:42:04.140
There is a hesitation to do that. And I think

01:42:04.140 --> 01:42:08.159
that the public will get the community they deserve

01:42:08.159 --> 01:42:12.020
when they start demanding it instead of being

01:42:12.020 --> 01:42:18.340
apathetic. If I could change that one thing,

01:42:18.460 --> 01:42:23.960
don't be apathetic. Use your voice to demand

01:42:23.960 --> 01:42:27.819
better and to demand accountability. If my community

01:42:27.819 --> 01:42:31.840
would do that, I think we could. be so much better

01:42:31.840 --> 01:42:41.699
than we are now um i mean i think that's you

01:42:41.699 --> 01:42:44.479
know it's such a important perspective and it's

01:42:44.479 --> 01:42:47.100
underlined by the pandemic i just had a conversation

01:42:47.100 --> 01:42:50.020
with a guy i've had on Six times now, strength

01:42:50.020 --> 01:42:52.239
and conditioning coach. He's originally French,

01:42:52.460 --> 01:42:54.840
lived in the US for a while. Now he's in Brazil.

01:42:55.020 --> 01:42:57.140
But we're talking about the pandemic and the

01:42:57.140 --> 01:42:59.699
impact that it had on the nation's physical health,

01:42:59.739 --> 01:43:02.739
mental health, and then even the fitness industry,

01:43:02.899 --> 01:43:05.279
like all the gyms that were destroyed when they

01:43:05.279 --> 01:43:07.899
shut everything down. And that was his thing.

01:43:07.920 --> 01:43:10.439
It's like, OK, you know, now we're three years

01:43:10.439 --> 01:43:14.350
plus later. Where's the accountability? Where's

01:43:14.350 --> 01:43:16.289
the reflection on what do we do right? What do

01:43:16.289 --> 01:43:18.989
we do wrong? Who lied to us? Who told us the

01:43:18.989 --> 01:43:20.829
truth? What was the good advice? What was the

01:43:20.829 --> 01:43:24.250
bad advice? But again, there was no outcry for

01:43:24.250 --> 01:43:27.470
that. There was no public saying, you know, we

01:43:27.470 --> 01:43:29.390
need to change things so that if another, when

01:43:29.390 --> 01:43:31.869
another virus sweeps through the planet, that

01:43:31.869 --> 01:43:34.810
we're more prepared. And that involves, you know,

01:43:34.850 --> 01:43:37.750
everything from putting real food back in schools,

01:43:38.090 --> 01:43:41.029
PE programs, bolstering, you know, sports and

01:43:41.029 --> 01:43:44.840
arts. pedestrianizing downtowns and all the things

01:43:44.840 --> 01:43:47.359
so that you can learn from what happened before

01:43:47.359 --> 01:43:50.560
and make it better but i agree with you completely

01:43:50.560 --> 01:43:52.260
and this is the you know the whole point of this

01:43:52.260 --> 01:43:55.500
podcast is there's no one that's off the radar

01:43:55.500 --> 01:43:58.720
like if you're not you know if your decisions

01:43:58.720 --> 01:44:02.399
are negatively affecting a community then you

01:44:02.399 --> 01:44:05.439
know i'm gonna bring it up because A, I don't

01:44:05.439 --> 01:44:07.359
work for anyone. That's what, you know, obviously

01:44:07.359 --> 01:44:10.279
infuriates some of the people locally. But B,

01:44:10.420 --> 01:44:12.920
if it's wrong, it's just wrong. You know, whether

01:44:12.920 --> 01:44:15.399
it's Gaza or first responders losing their jobs

01:44:15.399 --> 01:44:17.279
because they didn't have a vaccine or, you know,

01:44:17.279 --> 01:44:20.640
talking about underlying health conditions during

01:44:20.640 --> 01:44:22.699
COVID, whatever the thing is, if it's wrong,

01:44:22.760 --> 01:44:24.939
it's wrong. And this is the point is that there

01:44:24.939 --> 01:44:27.239
are many things that we could do so much better.

01:44:28.260 --> 01:44:31.960
You know, in Marion County, I just see the sprawling,

01:44:31.960 --> 01:44:35.340
you know, businesses and we've got WECC and all

01:44:35.340 --> 01:44:37.739
the housing going everywhere. There's no reason

01:44:37.739 --> 01:44:39.479
why we shouldn't be able to fix this, you know,

01:44:39.520 --> 01:44:41.380
these issues if there's all this industry coming,

01:44:41.460 --> 01:44:44.560
all this tourism coming. So, you know, but the

01:44:44.560 --> 01:44:46.239
only way we're going to do that is if people

01:44:46.239 --> 01:44:49.800
are, you know, complacent and turning their heads

01:44:49.800 --> 01:44:51.300
and someone's going to have to grab them by the

01:44:51.300 --> 01:44:55.140
cheeks and straighten it back up again. And how

01:44:55.140 --> 01:44:57.279
do you do that? With exactly what we're doing

01:44:57.279 --> 01:44:59.600
now and with what you're doing. Yeah, but also

01:44:59.600 --> 01:45:03.479
our elected officials. being honest about the

01:45:03.479 --> 01:45:05.939
problems instead they send out press releases

01:45:05.939 --> 01:45:09.300
constantly self -congratulating themselves for

01:45:09.300 --> 01:45:13.840
you know and it creates a disconnect because

01:45:13.840 --> 01:45:17.579
the people feel like wow it's so great then why

01:45:17.579 --> 01:45:23.659
is it so bad for me well i've said this and people

01:45:23.659 --> 01:45:26.239
to really understand if now if people listening

01:45:26.239 --> 01:45:27.939
this and haven't heard this for the first time

01:45:27.939 --> 01:45:29.840
we're talking about you know for example the

01:45:29.840 --> 01:45:33.060
fire service That your delivery of service has

01:45:33.060 --> 01:45:35.539
got worse and worse and worse. It has. And, you

01:45:35.539 --> 01:45:38.039
know, up to very recently, the rescue that should

01:45:38.039 --> 01:45:39.899
have been available to protect your family was

01:45:39.899 --> 01:45:42.760
being paid by a hospital to transport private

01:45:42.760 --> 01:45:45.359
patients to a different hospital and unavailable

01:45:45.359 --> 01:45:49.880
for you. Then where's your tax refund? You know,

01:45:49.880 --> 01:45:51.859
so this is the thing with these elected officials

01:45:51.859 --> 01:45:55.210
is they're not telling the taxpayer. That the

01:45:55.210 --> 01:45:58.210
average collective age on that fire engine of

01:45:58.210 --> 01:46:00.949
experience might be seven years total between

01:46:00.949 --> 01:46:03.609
three or four people, where it might have been

01:46:03.609 --> 01:46:08.210
70 years, you know, 10, 20 years ago. That, you

01:46:08.210 --> 01:46:11.010
know, the closest station now might be two stations

01:46:11.010 --> 01:46:13.510
away because, again, you know, they're off doing

01:46:13.510 --> 01:46:15.010
something that they shouldn't be doing for some

01:46:15.010 --> 01:46:18.289
private entity. You know, I mean, all these different

01:46:18.289 --> 01:46:20.250
areas that the person is not going to be able

01:46:20.250 --> 01:46:21.970
to make it up the stairs because they lowered

01:46:21.970 --> 01:46:24.279
the hiring standards and that person. you know,

01:46:24.300 --> 01:46:26.859
is extremely overweight and unfit. I mean, these

01:46:26.859 --> 01:46:28.979
are all pertinent things, but we're not telling

01:46:28.979 --> 01:46:32.579
the taxpayer that. I am. Oh, I am too. Yeah,

01:46:32.579 --> 01:46:36.300
yeah. Of course. I am because like people need

01:46:36.300 --> 01:46:38.140
to understand when they move to a neighborhood,

01:46:38.439 --> 01:46:42.079
they need to, how close are they to a fire station?

01:46:42.560 --> 01:46:46.180
And in my case, I live in the county, but I'm

01:46:46.180 --> 01:46:50.600
a half block out of the city's district. If my

01:46:50.600 --> 01:46:54.510
house is on fire, the city's closer. To respond.

01:46:54.689 --> 01:46:56.529
And thank goodness there's interlocal agreements

01:46:56.529 --> 01:46:59.390
that would have them respond. But then it depends

01:46:59.390 --> 01:47:02.930
where my call went. Also, if I'm calling from

01:47:02.930 --> 01:47:07.310
my cell phone. So there are so many aspects,

01:47:07.550 --> 01:47:16.449
so many variables. That. Absolutely. Well, for

01:47:16.449 --> 01:47:18.939
people listening. Whether it's related to some

01:47:18.939 --> 01:47:20.960
of the issues that you brought up and people

01:47:20.960 --> 01:47:22.779
wanting to reach out specifically with their

01:47:22.779 --> 01:47:25.800
own experiences or just in general, where are

01:47:25.800 --> 01:47:28.500
the best places to find you online and the paper?

01:47:28.800 --> 01:47:33.539
Sure. We publish at OcalaGazette .com and I'm

01:47:33.539 --> 01:47:36.500
easy to reach. My email is Jennifer at OcalaGazette

01:47:36.500 --> 01:47:42.680
.com. I am very open to hearing whether it be

01:47:42.680 --> 01:47:46.239
from first responders. I can hold confidence.

01:47:47.289 --> 01:47:51.390
If I need to know something, please reach out

01:47:51.390 --> 01:47:56.810
and tell me. Members of the public that are suffering

01:47:56.810 --> 01:47:59.810
in the community for lack of services, maybe

01:47:59.810 --> 01:48:03.590
for either the mentally ill or, to your point,

01:48:03.670 --> 01:48:06.810
students that are being caught up in our juvenile

01:48:06.810 --> 01:48:09.689
system, please reach out. Those are all issues

01:48:09.689 --> 01:48:11.909
we are trying very hard to get to the bottom

01:48:11.909 --> 01:48:16.529
of and put faces to if we can. I believe journalism

01:48:16.529 --> 01:48:20.310
can make. the community safer. Well, I want to

01:48:20.310 --> 01:48:22.369
thank you so much. It's been an amazing conversation.

01:48:23.050 --> 01:48:25.869
You know, I think that podcasting obviously isn't

01:48:25.869 --> 01:48:28.369
true journalism, but it's a really interesting

01:48:28.369 --> 01:48:30.489
medium to bring people on, you know, that have

01:48:30.489 --> 01:48:32.329
that information, that have that expertise and

01:48:32.329 --> 01:48:34.729
help disseminate it. So it's been a phenomenal

01:48:34.729 --> 01:48:37.090
conversation. I want to thank you for being so

01:48:37.090 --> 01:48:39.170
generous with your time and coming on the Behind

01:48:39.170 --> 01:48:42.569
the Shield podcast today. Thanks. I appreciate

01:48:42.569 --> 01:48:42.850
you.