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.com. Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.
As always, my name is James Gearing, and this
week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the
show expert horseman, team roper, 10 times NFR
qualifier, and the founder of the Liberty and
Loyalty Foundation, Charlie Crawford. So in this
conversation, we discuss a host of topics from
his own childhood surrounded by horsemanship,
his introduction to the world of roping, catharsis
through equine therapy, avoiding identity crisis
as an athlete, his own call to service, helping
first responders and military members, the powerful
and unique fundraiser they have next month, and
so much more. Now, before we get to this incredible
conversation, as I say every week, please just
take a moment. Go to whichever app you listen
to this on, subscribe to the show, Leave feedback
and leave a rating. Every single five -star rating
truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making
it easier for others to find. And this is a free
library of well over 1 ,100 episodes now. So
all I ask in return is that you help share these
incredible men and women's stories so I can get
them to every single person on planet Earth who
needs to hear them. So with that being said,
I introduce to you Charlie Crawford. Enjoy. Well,
Charlie, I want to start by saying two things.
Firstly, thank you to our mutual friend, Greg
Coker, for making this introduction. And secondly,
I want to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield
podcast today. I appreciate the opportunity,
James. So for those listening, they don't realize
that the last 30 minutes we've been mitigating
gremlins in the works of technologies. So we're
finally getting this to work now. Very first
question, where on planet Earth are we finding
you this afternoon? I'm in Stephenville, Texas.
I'm at home. Brilliant. Well, I would love to
start at the very beginning of your timeline.
So tell me where you were born and tell me a
little bit about your family dynamic, what your
parents did, how many siblings. So I'm from a
little town called Canby, Oregon, up in the Northwest,
Pacific Northwest. That's where I was originally
from. My dad roped. I loved roping. My dad was
a former Marine. I believe he served four or
five years, I believe, in the Marines. And he
loved roping. You know, that was one of the things
that I grew up seeing a lot. My dad roped. He
was a huge fan of roping. And where we lived
was not too far from a very historic little town
called St. Paul, Oregon, which is not a very
big town, but the rodeo is huge. And so all the
top guys in the world would all come to that
rodeo. And so when that rodeo would come to town,
My dad had an arena and we roped a little bit.
And then my mom would film or my stepmom would
film all the ropers at the rodeo. So back in
the 80s, 90s, you know, like that was before
camera phones. They would all come and hang out
because you come rope at our place. They keep
their horses there. And then my stepmom would
cook dinner and they could all go watch their
runs. So back then, like to be able to watch
your run on on camera was so rare. Not like it
is now. And I just fell in love with those guys.
You know, they were just so free, you know, talking
about going here, going there, flying, jumping
on rental cars, you know, getting on other guys'
horses and just seeing the world. And that's
probably what ruined me to want to be a cowboy
because it was so romantic just to hear them
talk and just the freedom that they had. And,
you know, everyone that I lived around was talking
about a nine to five job that they hated. And
those guys loved what they did. And so I was
like, man, this is what I want to do the rest
of my life. And, you know, I prided myself in
telling myself when I was in high school and
younger that I was going to rope my way out of
Canby, Oregon. And I did. I roped good enough
that I got a college scholarship to get out of
there. Then once I got out of there, then I had
opportunities after that. Then I come down here
to Texas, and then I was able to get around the
best guys in the world. Long story short, 10
years later, after I got out of high school,
I finally started making the NFR, which is our
Super Bowl of rodeo. I was blessed enough to
make that 10 times, not consistently, but I made
10 NFRs. That's a pretty good stat. I was never
the greatest, but I was pretty good at what I
did. That was just something that I couldn't
believe I even made it that many times. It's
been a blessing to have that run that I had.
And it was great, man, because when I first got
out there, it was as good as I thought it was.
It was, you know, you're going so many different
places. I've roped in, you know, in Mexico. I've
roped in Canada and basically every state across
the western side of the United States and most
of the southern states. And so I got to see a
lot of places because of rodeo. You mentioned
your dad was in the Marines. What was the era?
Did he see combat or was it one of the rare peace
times that we've had in our history? So I don't
really know. I believe I got to know. I still
got some of his trophies here on the wall. He
was a boxer. They said he was 60 and 0 in the
boxing when he was in the Marines. So he was
good. My stepmom, I got to go do a clinic up
there in Oregon this summer, and I got to actually
talk to her, and I wanted to know more about.
He had passed in 2020, so I didn't get a chance
to really talk to him about a lot of this stuff.
He never really talked about it growing up. I
just remember hearing little things like Okinawa
and some of the places he had been, I think Camp
Pendleton, stuff like that, but at such a young
age. I wasn't really paying attention, but she
had told me he served, I think, in the late 50s
and early 60s, between the four to five years
in that time zone. I guess he started, he'd broken
his nose boxing, I guess, enough times and he
started bleeding a lot. And he's like, man, I
think I'd like to stop boxing. I said, well,
when you do, you're going to be headed back out
there across the water. And I guess he didn't
believe him, so he quit boxing. And sure enough,
he next. Next little bit, he ended up being in
Okinawa and all the places I'd heard him talk
just very little about. But he loved it. He loved
it. He talked about how much he loved the structure.
He loved the structure of it because he didn't
really have that growing up. I believe the story
from my grandpa that I never met his dad was,
I believe he fought in the Korean War in the
Army. And I don't think it was very romantic.
I think he had two choices. He could either go
fight in the war or he'd go to jail. So I think
that was kind of how that started. But my dad
just loved the structure of it. And what was
odd was that was kind of probably our roughest
time together because that's how he also parented.
He was very, it was a dictatorship and he was
a general and you put your toothpaste here, you
put your toothbrush there, you know. So everything
was very structured, but like it was. There was
no talking back. You know, I think the structure
he got in the Marines is exactly how he parented.
So when I'm able to be around a lot of these
guys, it's familiar, if that makes sense. Like
when I'm around these guys, it's kind of almost
like being home. Exactly. So, you know, rode
quite a bit. Well, I think this is the thing,
especially if you've been brought up in a world
of pseudo chaos that is, you know, comforting
to these people. And then when they transition
out, that becomes their framework. That becomes
a blueprint of how not to have the chaotic childhood
that they had. So my, this always gets everyone's
eyeballs out there a little bit. My dad cheated
on his wife with my mom. And so that's how I
showed up. And so when basically my dad got a
hold of me and he always wanted a son, he had
four daughters and the first son that he had,
it didn't work out. He was too hard on him. That
kid, he rejected him and it was just tough. Then
he had four daughters and he always wanted a
son. And then he cheated on his wife with my
mom and I showed up and he's like, well, I've
always wanted a son and this was my chance. And
he basically put me on his arm, walked me in
the house. I think I was four years old, had
a group meeting, threw me on the kitchen table.
And I'm looking at four girls and this older
lady that you couldn't see her eyes because she
had dark glasses on. And he basically said, this
is my son. You can like it and stay or you can
not like it and leave. So there's a lot of animosity
that I kind of had a little bit growing up in
that household, if you can imagine, right? Now,
my stepmom, what an angel. She raised me like
her own. She was amazing. But it was also difficult
growing up with a lot of insecurities, you know,
with a lot of the way people would talk and this
and that. And so the dynamic of my childhood
was very dysfunctional. But in the same sense,
it took me a long time to grow up because of
that. But it's amazing how much I had learned
just through that chaos a little bit. And so,
like I said, nothing was ever in a real healthy
relationship. And that affected a lot of my relationships
going forward from there. But it just enhanced
the fact that I got such a thrill and I got such
a love for roping because I was able to. get
away from all that if that makes sense i was
able to get confidence through that um i got
attention through that because i was really good
at what i did and it would also help me to where
i was able to get out of there i was able to
go blaze my own trail blaze my own path um chase
that and so i would just basically kind of hide
all that other stuff to just basically focus
on how am i going to get good enough so i can
get out of here how am i going to get good enough
where i can be successful now one of the The
disillusions that I had was as I was chasing
this basically golden calf, which was to make
the NFR, to be the best roper in the world, was
that I thought that, man, once I made it, then
all my problems will go away because now I'm
a celebrity or a star or an NFR cowboy. And I
made it and it was the best. It was the coolest
thing ever. It was like my cup was full. Like,
I couldn't get no more full of driving out to
Vegas, being on the big stage, seeing the bright
lights. Like, I remember when I first made it
to the NFR, we go down there. I've never been
there, never seen it, never been on the ground.
And I remember in the head box, which is I roped
the steer around the head. I remember going to
the head box, just falling over and doing a dirt
angel. Like, I finally made it. Like, this is
it. Like, my whole world is going to change now.
And I remember there was somebody up there that
was hanging banners. There was a part of the
crew that was getting everything ready for the
rodeo. And I remember hearing him go, yeah, I
think somebody's having a seizure down there.
We need a paramedic. And I'm like, no, no, I'm
good. I'm good, man. I was just doing a dirt
angel. Got a little excited. And that's how I
literally was just so infatuated with getting
this done. And it was the fastest 10 days of
my entire life. Like it flew by like that. And
when it was done, it was done. Like that was
it. And I'm like, yeah, I didn't change none.
I'm still the same guy. And I didn't realize
how fast that went. And then all of a sudden
now you're getting ready for the next year. Everything
last year was already done. And now everyone's
focused back on who's going to make it again
this year. And so it was odd in the fact of.
I thought I was going to change my life and I
was still the same person. I still had the same
problems. I still had the same internal battles.
I still had the, all the things that I still
kind of had, but I was still like, well, at least
I made it, you know? And then I'm like, well,
I wonder if I can make it again. Then, then after
a while, then I made it again. Then I made it
three times in a row. Then after a while, I'm
just expecting to make it. Now I've just. creating
even more pressure on myself to continue to keep
making now i need a house now i need a barn now
i need you know now i need to build a life around
the fact that now i'm actually making a living
doing what i'm doing and what it going through
that to i don't know i think i got my first i
went to my first pro rodeo in 1995 and i retired
in 2000 so 25 years around there um And, you
know, when I started winding down after making
enough NFRs and slowing down and then the glamour
wasn't near as bright as it was. And, you know,
I was able to retire in my last year that I rodeoed
and made the NFR at the same time. So I was able
to call it quits and leave on my terms, which
for me was extremely, it was meaningful. It was
meaningful for me. You know, one of the things
that was hard about my career is because I think
anytime you're trying to chase success, what
are you willing to what are you willing to sacrifice?
You know, I was willing to sacrifice everything
to be successful. And so that meant my first
marriage. That meant, you know, not going to
some of your best friend's weddings, missing.
some of your family members birthdays you know
i was willing to sacrifice all those things to
be successful and it just got to where they're
toward the end of my career i just i was just
kind of burned out with the selfishness that
i had that was all about me so much and that's
when i felt like when i was able to give back
and and do certain things it was actually had
more of a purpose and meaning that i hadn't felt
that almost felt as good as making the nfr And,
you know, that's one of the things, too, is that
when you're chasing those goals as a young kid,
you know, that's to make it. But then also to
be able to I've seen so many guys, too, that
in their career when they're done. Man, they're
they're in a they're in a tough spot. They've
never thought about the end of their career.
They don't know how to handle not being on the
pedestal anymore. It's a huge drop for a lot
of those guys because they never really pivoted.
I think there was a time to where I think once
I was in the retirement mode to be able to chase
this new goal of mine was there was kind of a
rebuilding phase. There was that, OK, this is
not who I am anymore. So now how am I going to
pivot now? How am I going to take that same energy
to be successful and then now do it to something
else to where I was able to find purpose again?
And I think for me. I have more purpose now than
I did when I was rodeoing, because when I was
rodeoing, it was just literally just to succeed
and to be successful. And now it's almost a greater
calling to feel like I'm doing basically what
God created me to do, I feel like. I think making
the NFR was what God blessed me to do. He gave
me a set of skills to be able to be one of the
best headers in the world. But then now is, I
feel like... He's been able to work on me that
now what am I going to do for him for the skills
that he gave me? How am I able to give back with
the talents that he gave me and bless others
and do it and make an impact in this world? And
it's just been really cool to see that transformation
into what it's become now. I want to get into
transition because there's so much to unpack
there and it mirrors military first responders
so much. But just going back to, you know, again,
using this sport initially to, you know, to glean
some positivity in an arguably chaotic environment.
I think we talked yesterday and we were chatting
before. I had Buck Branaman on the show. And,
you know, he was a cowboy, a television cowboy,
and his dad wasn't. You know, he just used his
children really as props to get money through
serial commercials and all these other things.
And he has a very, you know, heartbreaking, heartbreaking
story and ultimately was taken under a local
sheriff's wing and he worked on a horse ranch.
And he developed this incredible bond with the
horse. And now, obviously, he's kind of the person
who the horse whisperer was based on and that
kind of equine therapy model as well. When you
reflect back now with this wiser lens that you
have, what impact did that relationship with
the horse have on you emotionally as a young
boy? It's a great question, and it's a great
topic. I'm a clinician now, so I teach people
how to rope and horsemanship is one of the biggest
topics that we discuss as we're teaching people
how to learn how to rope. One of the things that
horsemanship will do is it'll bring out your
insides. It'll really expose what's going on.
Your horse will let you know if you're being
too passive because your horse will just run
all over you. Your horse will also let you know
if he's scared of you that you're probably being
too much of a dictator. treated my horses a lot
like how i was raised when they did good i petted
them when they were didn't do very good i was
hard on so that was my internal battle that's
some of the things that i struggled with growing
up you know and my dad when i did good he was
so proud of me when i did good he was so embarrassed
that he's like i can't even believe that you
even you know would do that or even ever made
it and stuff and you know i have i had a story
one time that you know my dad had cancer when
he's in 2009 and I was trying to come home more
often when I was making the NFR. And one year,
I believe it was 2012. And at this point when
I was making the NFR, it's like my dad never
missed an NFR from 2008 or some 1984. He went
to the NFR every single year in Washington. He
was one of the biggest fans of rodeo. I made
the NFR in 2005. I made the NFR again in 2006
and he didn't go. I had tickets and he didn't
go. I never understood that even till now. I
don't think he probably even understood it, to
be honest with you. There was something there
that jealousy and insecurity. I can't tell you.
I wouldn't be able to tell you. And honestly,
I think if he was on this podcast, I don't even
know if he was still alive. He would be able
to tell you. So it's one of those odd things
that when a guy thinks dealing with something,
you don't know how to deal with it. So you just
ignore it. So that was how rocky our relationship
was for a really long time. Hit and miss, hit
and miss. And I remember when I was coming home
in 2012 and I came and visited with him, my dad
was really good with horses. Really, really good.
My dad loved horses. He couldn't stand people.
That was always his mantra. He was like, well,
people have ears and they can understand English,
so they should be able to figure it out. A horse
can't. So he loved horses and horses loved him.
They really, really did. You could go out in
a pasture and he would raise colts and all the
colts would come running to him. Like they, they
loved him and he had just a good soft heart to
animals. And so I remember when 2012, one summer
I came home and, and I was entering some rodeos
and I was getting some stuff figured out and
that morning on the phone and my dad was down
there. in the round pen jacking with this colt
and you can see him from the house and stuff
down the round pen and i seen him he was jacking
with this horse for i don't know 45 minutes helping
it where he could pick his feet up where you
can clean it and stuff like that the horse is
kicking he's like oh now stop that you know he
almost pinned his ears back oh my gosh you're
not that angry you settle down you know just
as patient as can be right and finally after
a while this horse is just standing there soft
and subtle as could be picking up all his feet
and he rubbed on him and turned back out so we're
down there and i'm like the whole time i'm thinking
man i'm here for a couple days like i need to
go do some stuff with my dad like we need to
go like i don't know how much longer this is
going to be like i need to make sure instead
of just hanging out talking like let's go do
something so i remember this it kind of organically
happened but also kind of had it in my head to
kind of pull this out because we got along but
it didn't take nothing to like Get him snapped
off, right? Some of the things that was pretty
interesting, when I was trying to get my life
put together, Jesus Christ was one of the biggest
things for me was when I turned my life around.
When I started becoming a Christian, when people
were helping mentor me, when I was able to change
my crowd to get around the right people, my dad's
seen that. And when he got diagnosed with cancer,
he quit chewing, he quit drinking. cold turkey
just quit cussing took a little bit longer but
he went from never going to church never going
to live in a town that had more churches than
bars to now all of a sudden going to church twice
a week and softening up and our relationship
was was getting better and there was one time
i remember when i was at the rodeo in pendleton
oregon and i made the short round and he had
called he's like hey i heard you made the short
round you know great Um, I'm going to come watch
you. And, uh, you know, I got to thinking, um,
you know, if you weren't doing nothing, I was
going to get baptized on Sunday, about three
and a half hours from Pendleton there. We lived
in Prineville, Oregon. And, uh, if you're not
busy, you know, what, uh, would you come? And
I'm like, dad, I'm off that day. I'd love, I'll
come down. I'll be there. Oh, that'd be great.
And this is kind of, this is my dad's humor,
right? And he goes, well, You know, while you're
there, I was thinking, you know, I'm just kind
of new to this Christian thing here a little
bit because I've seen what you have done. So
I want to do this more often. I think this is
where I need to go. But I'm a little bit unfamiliar
kind of with these priests. Not really sure how
much I can trust them. You know, same thing like
a lot of us had a bad experience. with a church
or a pastor or something along the lines where
it turns you off of it. Now he's reading the
book, learning more about it, but then still
not quite sure about these pastors, right? And
he goes, so I figure since you were there, maybe
you could baptize me. I'm like, you want me to
baptize you? He's like, well, yeah, you're already
there. Why wouldn't you? You got it. I'll do
that. I'll do that. So I drove down there and
I baptized him. It was funny. They get him in
the water and he's in his little swim trunks.
And I'm holding the back of his head, and he
goes down, and the preacher is praying over him.
And he's, all right, now plug your nose, and
said something about the Son, the Holy Ghost,
and right about that time, the Spirit, something
like that. And I went to drop him down, and all
of a sudden, his hands come out of nowhere on
the side of this trough. And he looks at me right
in the eye, and he goes, now, I know we've had
a lot of beef, but this is no time to get even.
And the whole congregation just laughing and
just in an uproar. But that was my dad. That
was his humor. He had an amazing talent to be
funny at the right times. And so I got to baptize
my dad. And our relationship got a lot better.
But like I said, to go back to this story, it
didn't also take much to where if I did one little
thing, it could still set him off. I had that
effect. So we're out there at his house in 2012.
And he just got done jacking with this colt.
And I said, hey, I'm needing some help with my
riding. I've been out there on the rodeo and
there's some certain places because my dad could
ride with two fingers and a halter. Like his
horses were so soft. They were so quiet. And
I said, man, mine's panicking a little bit in
the spot right here where it's not allowing me
to handle the steer where I want. And it's been
costing me some money. And I said, man, you ride
so good and your horses collect so well. Can
we just go ride? And you kind of help me understand
this because there's something I'm not understanding.
Yeah. Yeah. Let me get on my horse. So he goes
and gets on his horse and we're out there riding.
He's explaining to me how, cause he, he studies
his stuff. He studied, he studies Buck Brennaman.
He studies, he studies Chris Cox, Clinton Anderson,
all the way back to Tom Dorrance, Ray Hunt, John
Lyons. Like he loved the horsemanship side of
things. I didn't, I wanted to rope. And so he's
throwing all this lingo that he's expecting that
I should know that I've got no idea what he's
talking about. And he's throwing it out there,
and I'm not picking it up. Sure enough, the cuss
words that he's been trying to bury so much come
flying back out again. And slap dick, I can't
believe, how the hell do you even make the NFR?
You know, he's hollering. I'm laughing because
I was like, man, this didn't take long for that
old nerve to kind of come popping back out. And
I just start laughing, and I ride up to him.
And I remember it to this day. He's like, I just
can't believe you can't figure this out. I said,
Dad, I tell you what, I watched you jack with
that colt for like 45 minutes just so you could
pick his feet up so you can clean the damn things
out. It didn't need cleaned anyway. Just kind
of over exaggerating, right? And I said, and
I'm watching this horse kick at you and it's
not bothering you. And I'm watching him pin his
ears back and you're just like, oh, you stop
it. I said, I've never seen so much patience
in someone with horses. but not with humans.
And I understand, I understand English, but like,
if you will show me the same patience that you
show that Colt promise, you'll get it. I can
get, I can do anything. If you would give me
the same patience that you showed that Colt,
that was the last argument we ever had ever.
He went from my biggest critic to my biggest
fan that day. And so when I tell people and I
talk about horsemanship, that's one of the things
that created probably the best time in that eight
years between me and my dad. The bond that we
had riding horses, you know, where some kids
and dads, maybe it's in the back porch playing
catch with the baseball. You know, at the end
of my career, that was me and my dad out riding
horses, learning the psychology of a horse, learning
how one thought, learning how to place your hands
and feet, that puzzle. that you're trying to
figure out in that horse's mind you know that
was what brought me and my dad to a spot where
that was the last time i heard him cuss that
makes sense and and it uh it really did it was
it was very special and what that uh what that
time together we had after that meant to me So
before, well, early on, you had this, you know,
praise a horse when it's doing well, scold a
horse when it's not. What was that shift? What
was that evolution to the horseman that you've
become today? Going back to me, did that help
me when I was wrong or did that panic me? And
Grace. Who are the people that gave me grace?
And when they did, how did I act? Was I willing?
Or, you know, when you're scolding a horse and
it didn't know any better, the horse now is confused.
Now it's guards up. I can relate to that. Okay.
What about the guys when I screwed up at their
house when I'd stay there and I thought, oh gosh,
I'm going to get my ass kicked or I'm going to
get thrown out or this and that. And I said.
No, we're just going to go fix it. The pressure
that just came off of me. And I'm like, that's
it? Like, that's all? Because if you break, he
goes, did you do it on purpose? No. Then let's
go fix it. So that grace, when a horse messes
up, did he mean to? Probably not. So then how
do you show that horse grace and be consistent
and help that horse being able to. perform in
confidence, knowing that it knows his job and
not scared to not do his job. Those are two completely
different aspects on how competitors think and
how, you know, horses are athletes as well. You
know, we were athletes or horses. So if I competed
scared, how did I compete? If that horse competes
scared, how's he going to work? So it was my
internal battles that I started working with
myself, probably one of the best. quotes that
i ever heard anyone ever tell me i got to rope
with a legend named alan bach um in the middle
of my career and i was missing and i'm berating
myself i'm just telling me i suck i can't believe
i do that i'm so stupid like everything that
i'd heard growing up and i remember him telling
me one time he says man you sure are hard on
yourself when you when you miss so i gotta be
if i'm not who's gonna be out here like We're
no pussies like, right? And he's like, well,
that's one way to look at it. But he goes, who
are some of your best friends out here? So I
rattled off some of my best friends out here
that competed. And they said, what if they missed?
What if they threw that same loop that you just
threw? Would you talk to them the way you're
talking to yourself? Would you tell them the
same thing you would tell yourself? No. Why not?
Well, they probably wouldn't miss like that.
He goes, you're going to try to tell me they
haven't missed. Well, that makes sense. He goes,
maybe if you started talking to yourself like
you were your best friend or like one of your
best friends, I bet you'd probably quit this
internal battle you have going on amongst within
yourself. Wow. I never really thought about that.
So I walked away and he goes, well, where are
you going? I didn't mean to offend you. Did he?
No, you didn't offend me at all. I said, where
are you going? I said, I've got to go buy myself
a beer. I've got a lot of apologizes to do because
I have been a dick to myself for a long time
and I probably owe myself a beer. And that was
one of those things. I kind of learned that about
me. And so then I tried to apply that with the
horses. You know, the horses that I had the most
successful, the most success with was the horses
that had an extremely tough childhood. The horses
that had an extremely tough owner before me.
So they had went through hell before they got
to me. I could relate to that. So I knew that
horse just needed a friend. Now the spoilt ones,
we didn't get along very good because I didn't
understand that language. I understood what it
was like when things were too serious and how
to encourage them. And so that was the mold and
a lot of the early relationships that I had because
I noticed that when... that horse understood
what I was asking and I gave it praise, those
horses would go to battle for me. When things
got on the line, when I needed them the most,
that's when they would run under me and do anything.
It felt like we were in the trenches together.
And that was just something that was interesting
because what I didn't realize at the time was
that it was familiar, if that made sense. It
does. It's funny because just listening to you
talk, it mirrors what I've said many, many times
on here, which is we're a similar age. When we
were young, growing up, at least on the screen,
the men that were presented to us as the masculine
ones were the bodybuilders that made films. The
Schwarzeneggers, the Stallones, the Van Dams.
And, you know, so it was this, you know, beat
everyone up, have no emotions whatsoever. And
then you ultimately get into an arena where there's
real tough men, men and women, whether it's bull
riding or roping or firefighting or the military.
And that same facade is what destroys men and
women because that's not a human being. A human
being isn't a white circle. It's a yin and a
yang. And when you see the real courageous men
and women, they absolutely are hard as nails
when it's needed, but they're also... courageous
enough to be vulnerable and i think once we accept
that you know male and female but especially
men in this world that that whole facade of masculinity
that sadly is being kind of peppered on the screens
once again that's what puts people in you know
in graves because that is not what a you know
human being is supposed to be and i always allude
to the beginning of band of brothers look in
the eyes of those real soldiers when they're
talking Are they saying, oh, don't cry, you're
being a pussy? No, they're in tears. And that
happened almost 80 years before they were filming
that. When I went home and was able to talk to
my stepmom a lot more about my dad and his relationship
with his dad, now that I've gotten older, like
I said, I've humanized him now. And I'm so interested
in that. How did my dad and his dad get along?
What I didn't, and I kind of heard that a little
bit, but it relates now is that, so my dad never
finished the same school year in his school.
So that's how much my grandpa moved around, I
guess. So once he got back from the war, I don't
know what I'd call him. I think that he couldn't
hold a job. He didn't like being told what to
do, I guess. That's what she was kind of saying.
So they were moving a lot. So that dysfunction.
Right. This is that constant dysfunction. And
then he would tell me, too, he said, I just as
soon as I move into a new school, you know, back
then there's always the bully. The bully always
took on the new kid in school. He said, after
a while, I just knew the routine. Apply for the
new school, get in there. He said, I just want
to head straight for the bully. Let's get it
over with. And it was done. And it was interesting
the fact that chaos, dysfunction, and I guess.
Dad had different wife after different wife as
well. And so, you know, lust was probably our
biggest downfall between the Crawford name from
sound like my grandpa to my dad to me at the
time. And so when she said that he loved the
structure of it, you could tell that's how he
parented. The problem is, is like, I can see
where when you go to the military and you're
18 and you've had all this shit upbringing. That
at that point in time, you can tear somebody
down and pull that shit off of them, re -strip
them and then re -mold them. I don't think you
can tear them down when they don't have that
experience. And I think that's where my dad messed
up was the tear down was before I even did anything.
So like when you talk about a young colt and
you start getting onto that colt when he doesn't
know any better. you're tearing nothing down
you're just tearing his confidence away now it'd
be a lot different if he came and he's kicking
at you and acting out and he knew better and
you had to like strip all that stuff away and
remold him is a lot different than if you started
off that way when he's a young colt so why does
that colt act he's resentful he's scared of you
he has no confidence he runs when he sees you
that was my childhood when my dad would show
up i i didn't know who was going to be there
you know it was like a grenade that the pin was
pulled out and you just was waiting for something
to explode all the time that's how a lot of times
my horses felt when i was younger i had that
same i could feel the i could feel the the generational
curse being inside of me as well because that's
what we knew it took reading the bible it took
me and my dad getting a better place it took
me becoming better horsemen and understanding
that those internal battles i've got to deal
with first in order to become a good horseman
and a good dad now. And I would probably credit
my dad, even though it wasn't correct, it was
still a lot to learn from. I always tell everyone,
I wouldn't be who I was without him. Even though
I learned a lot what not to do, it's still learning.
And so that helped me with my horsemanship in
turn. That also helped me with now becoming the
dad now that I want to be. I'm not scared to
whip my kid's ass. but there's a line. You know,
I remember my dad always told me that I remember
one time I got my ass kicked and I'm like, look,
I told you, dad, I didn't do it. And, and I had
witnesses. I'm like, no, he didn't do it. That
guy did my dad's excuse or my dad's compliment
or what he would say after that. Well, that just
makes up for the ones you got away with. You're
a detective now too. And so like now is like.
Instead of wondering if I'm going to get my ass
kicked, I want my kid to know he's going to get
his ass kicked. I want to know there is a clear
line between good and bad. And to me, that's
the thing that I've learned with the horsemanship.
And then also where my dad didn't know that good
from bad himself. And so that's where the Bible
has helped me so much and knowing what's good
and what's bad. anyway i kind of got drifted
off there but it's just it's ironic though how
you how i can relate to where the the demons
he had with the the demons you see horsemanship
have as well as because what will come out of
them um will usually show up in their horsemanship
that's what i think was so phenomenal the internal
battle that he had but it didn't reflect in his
horsemanship when he got later it was really
pretty phenomenal Going back to, you mentioned
the transition as you got away from the NFR.
There's a documentary called The Weight of Gold,
and it's got Michael Phelps and a load of other
Olympians on. And these are athletes that were
doing these sports when they were single digit
children all the way through to this point. And
it mirrors the first responders, the military
so well, because there's elements of identity,
tribe, purpose. you know, respect or being put
on the pedestal if you like. And then one day
it stops, whether you step off the Olympic podium
and you've aged out or whether you leave a fire
station for the last time. And it can be crippling
for all those things if you haven't got that
next step and you haven't separated who you are
from what you do. So talk to me about that transition
and how jarring it was for you. So I'd watched
a lot of guys. rodeo and and watch their castle
that was built on sand just get washed away through
the rainstorm of when they didn't make it they
basically lived like there would never be another
not nfr they didn't you know i watched guys that
win world titles and just throw their belt buckle
away like is this all it is you know so i seen
that false idol as they talked about in the bible
to me that's what i was very very careful of
even though i did it but Later in my career,
I was very, very cautious about the false idol.
Because if I put my if rodeo into what if that's
who I am, this is going to be a very abrupt fall
from grace. Because you can't maintain it. No
one that has any realistic mindset can realize
that, you know, even though what I do, you can
do it for a pretty long time compared to bull
riding. realizes that like there's gonna have
to be a day where you're gonna have to face reality
there's gonna be a day where this this shiny
carrot stick that you're chasing or that shiny
diamond whatever it is eventually it's gonna
be there's gonna be something that's gonna have
to replace it and so i was very cautious about
the fact that this is what i did but it wasn't
who i was now it's tough because that's all i
knew um the transition i think was When I decided
that was going to be it, because my wife is a
very, very successful roper. She's way more successful
than I was. She's a 23 time world champion. When
we had our son in 2017, it lit a fire up under
me and I, and I was doing pretty good. And then
all of a sudden it dropped the pressure of trying
to win. And because it's just like hunting, man,
you, you, you eat what you kill. And when you,
when you're competing, You get to pay your bills
when you're winning. And when you don't, it doesn't.
So it's a very, very tricky line of work. And
to be a dad and to have to have this pressure
to win, and I'm at my later stage in my career.
And then when she was pregnant with our little
girl, I was actually that last year I roped,
I roped better than I ever roped in my entire
career. Like I was getting underneath of it.
I was, my horses were getting really good. I
had a really good partner. Everything was hitting.
My sponsors were coming back and it was like
when she was pregnant, but then now breakaway
and it's taken off like what she does for a living.
And it was like, man, for both of us to rodeo.
And I just don't see that. And I said, man, what
do you think I should do? And I asked her and
she's like, well, man, with what I'm doing was
really taken off for next year. And she's like,
I'd really like to chase it. And I'm like. I've
already made 10 NFRs. This was way beyond anything
I ever dreamed of that I would ever be able to
do. So I'm like, honestly, being able to say
that this is my last NFR and knowing this is
going to be my last NFR, I bet I could be good
with this. So I was able to call it mid -season
that this is it. I'm done. So I was able to rodeo
and drive. And when I'm driving, especially by
myself, that's when I can do a lot of really
good thinking. And it was kind of like, what
do I want to do? Like, what do I want to become?
And so real estate was really something that
was kind of intriguing. I was reading some books
by Robert Kiyosaki, Rich Dad, Poor Dad. And it
was kind of changing my mindset a little bit
on what I wanted to do later. I was also doing
a lot of lessons where I was teaching people
how to rope because it was during COVID year.
So a lot of people weren't working. They were
roping a lot more. So I was really, really busy
with lessons. That was taken off. And me and
my wife started a military clinic that I taught
military guys how to rope in 2014. So from 2014,
I had a military clinic where I invited anyone
who had ever served. It was free. We opened up
our house. The stalls were free. The plug -ins
were free. Come stay. The whole town got behind
it. They would come in and cater. The rodeo committee
here in town, they would come and serve and dish
all the guys up. My sponsors got behind it. We
had prizes. And also, too, one of my dear friends
and also guys that I wrote with, a guy named
Trey Johnson, who's an ordained minister, he
did the healing. So I did the head and he did
the healing. Well, he was bringing his ministries.
to the clinic. Well, after six years, this thing
has taken off to where it's more than just a
clinic. There was guys giving their life to Christ
at this clinic. There was people who were getting
help with their PTSD because of Trey through
this clinic. I was even learning more about this
through the clinic. And I'd be kind of creating
such a bond with these guys that when I retired
in 2020 and it was going into my last year, we
were getting They said, I had them handle the
entries of who was coming in because I wanted
to make sure that who was coming to my house,
they vetted just to make sure that there's nothing
that, with my family here, I'm unfamiliar with
it. So I wanted somebody that kind of had my
six. And so they said, look, man, we ran this
thing through our little social media, which
you've only got like a few hundred followers.
And we're getting like hundreds of phone calls
on this clinic. He's like, have you ever thought
about having a roping? And so this is my last
NFR, trying to figure out a little bit of what
I want to do. And then this military thing on
the side just has a fire lit up under it to where
it's like, do I kind of keep it where it's at
and let it smolder down? Or do I take the cap
off this thing and let it explode? So I've got
all these things in my last year of rodeo that
I want to do. My clinics are doing good. I thought
about maybe doing the fraternities because I
was pretty good with horses. I've got this military
event. I'm going to liquidate all my assets when
I retire. So I'm going to be able to build on
some land that I had to be able to do some real
estate. And I've got all these things, right,
that I wanted to do. And so when I retired, I
had plenty that was kind of in my head and anything
almost too much. All I knew is like, all right,
whatever I decide that I'm going to do, if I'll
just put the same amount of effort into this
as what I did when I wrote, I know there's no
way I can fail. I know what it takes to be successful
at this. Now, I just got to figure out which
one of these is going to be what I want to make
sure I go in all in on. So the real estate I
got in all in on and I was developing a lot of
the stuff around here. And when these guys. told
me that uh they wanted to have a reopen now 30
days prior to this is when they decided before
the clinic was 30 days and they said look we're
getting 100 instead of a school why don't we
just have a jackpot where everyone can show up
i'm like i tell you what let's do the clinic
but if we do this reopen i'm gonna do it and
then we'll do it right so i got the stevenville
arena here in town they donated it I got $30
,000 added in sponsorship money, which brought
the NFR guys in. They were all getting ready
for the NFR. So the top 15 headers, top 15 healers
in the world were all coming to this event. We
invited all the military guys for the clinic.
Then we had a roping specifically for military
first responders. And then also another roping
I called the Mill First Pro, where the military
and first responders get to rope with the guys
going to the NFR. And then after that, I was
like, all right, guys, sit back. relax head to
the beer tent now we're going to watch the top
15 ropers in the world roping the exact same
setup as the nfr so if you've never seen it this
is what it looks like from eye level and i basically
put on a mini nfr form and it was awesome we
had we found some auction items and and get this
there's two of us three of us they were putting
this whole thing on and We get done and all the
items and the dust settles this one day and we
raised almost $50 ,000 and we were able to help
put a lady that was disabled from the war. I
forget exactly what branch. I think she might've
been in the army. It was such a whirlwind. I
forget exactly what all happened during all that,
but we were able to help with building homes
for heroes, put her in a home. And I was like,
that was one of the first times where I ever
felt like I was able to give back. I had been
so selfish with my whole career that if I don't
do this and if I don't do that, I'm not going
to be successful. I never had time to give back.
And that was one of the first times I kind of
felt where when God talks about how he's going
to give you the ability, but you've got to do
it through his glory. That was the first time
I felt that. I was like, okay, now I think I
see what he means by that. And I'm like, man,
that was a pretty good event. There was guys
that came up to me after that telling me it was
the best day of their life. That was the coolest
thing they've ever experienced. And I'm like,
man, for me, that was a slap in the face for
me, just to me. Because what was the best day
of this guy's life is something I do every day.
And it's like it really grounded me in the fact
of like, damn, I got to remember, I get to do
this. I don't have to do this. I get to do this.
What I do every day was the best day that this
guy ever had. So that gratitude, trying to pull
that gratitude back in and the appreciation with
what I do. And then I had a couple of guys come
up to me and told me they would help keep the
gun out of their mouth. And I didn't expect that.
I'd become pretty good buds one year at a rodeos
that we were putting on that were showing up
the rodeos with an organization called 22 Kill.
And that was the first time that I realized that
they were helping explain to me the 22 military
guys kill themselves every single day. And when
those guys were putting some of that out there
and the fact that like it's one thing when you
hear it and see it, another thing when you're
looking straight into the eyes of it. And I battled
with that growing up. You know, I'd had a noose
around my neck. I had a gun in my mouth. You
know, it was one of those things that I understood
it, but not in their level. I didn't understand
what they were going through. Not one time would
I ever say that I understand what they were going
through, other than I understand what that tendency
is like. That was one of the things that when
things didn't go right, I didn't know how to
handle it. And it just seemed like that was the
easiest way to make the pain stop. Now, luckily,
I was able to hear God's voice, even though I
wasn't very familiar with God. that it kept those
things from happening to me. It was also one
of those things that I'd kind of buried that
down for a long time and kind of forgotten about
those tendencies I had at a young age. When they
were bringing that up, I was remembering kind
of that experience that I had with that. And
I looked back at it with the gratitude eyes that
those guys helped me look through it. And I was
like, if I'd have did that. look at what I would
have never experienced. Look at the 10 NFRs I
got to experience. I'm looking at two of the
most beautiful kids that I've ever seen in my
life that are mine that I would never have got
to experience. A beautiful wife. And I was like,
man, I need to tell that story more often when
people ask me to give a testimony because who
knows who's listening? Who knows that if somebody's
thinking that, That they're just trying to make
the pain go away. That there's a way that you
can suffer through that pain in a healthier way.
But then look at what you might be able to do
that you would have never dreamt about. And that's
what I kind of tell that story and the fact that
if I did, I would have never experienced this.
If I did, I would have never experienced the
guys that I've met with the military and the
men and women that fight to keep us free and
the men and women in law enforcement that keep
our streets safe. You know, now when I look at
it with two kids, that stuff never crosses my
mind because it's amazing. What happens for me
is now I'm living for something more than me.
I think that was what was so hard when I earlier
in my career was I was living for me and it was
very selfish. Those guys really helped me understand
gratitude and that. I was doing something that
was just more than team roping. I was doing something
more than my industry had ever seen. And I kind
of looked at it like that. And I was like, well,
if you think that was cool in 30 days, let me
show you what I can do in 365. So this thing
just got bigger and bigger and bigger. And now
this is going into our sixth year. We've helped
build over five homes. We've helped build five
homes. You're building homes for heroes. I don't
know how many people that we baptized. We've
raised over $1 .2 million for military first
responders and their families. We've helped law
enforcement families that were tragically murdered
in the line of duty. We helped with funeral costs.
We've helped with the extra money that they have
until their benefits come. And I look back at
it now and it's like, Now I can feel that purpose.
You know, we're talking about that retirement.
You know, I had all these things lined up that
I wanted to do. And it took me a few years to
find the priority in it. I still fraternity a
little bit, but that's that's my hobby now. That's
what I get to do now for fun. My clinics blew
up like crazy. I do over 40 some clinics a year.
That's my. That's my primary way that I make
a living. My rentals are up to nine of them now.
But this military event that I do, that's my
give back. I keep that in my priority list because,
you know, I was a big Charlie Kirk fan and not
as much before he died as I am now. I'm not saying
I didn't like him. I followed him. But, you know,
now that he's passed, you see so much of what
he did. And one of the things that I really rang
true was when he talked about. get married, have
kids and build a legacy. And, you know, I think
those words are really true is, you know, what,
what did God put you down here for? What, what
purpose do you have? You know, I don't know how
many, we've got two or three guys that have moved
to Stephenville because of this event. They'll
live here now. We hang out, we rope all the time.
Some from the Carolinas, some from Arkansas,
but you know, they're, they're coming here, man.
And they're in my Bible study group and we're
brothers. I've never felt what it was like in
the rodeo industry. You don't feel this. You're
buds. But I've never felt what it's like that
I felt like somebody would actually jump in front
of me and take a bullet. When you think about
that as a civilian, rarely does anyone ever have
that experience of feeling that. I feel myself
very lucky that I do. I'm a civilian that knows
what that feels like. Most of the guys are men
and women in blue and serve in the military that
know what that feels like. Learned a lot of what
it's like to have a brotherly bond, and I love
it. So now we're going on our sixth year, and
now this event, the legs under it now is unbelievable.
When you were talking about You know, not hearing
God's voice when you're hearing God's voice,
excuse me, when you were younger and that pulling
you out of that kind of suicide ideation. As
I've kind of listened to hundreds and hundreds
of people who have been in crisis because I've
got over 1100 interviews now, and it's amazing,
even if we're not supposed to be talking about
mental health, how often that comes up and how
many people did get to that point. And when there
is this perfect storm of all these contributing
factors, because it's not one, it's all these
things are lining up to this perfect storm. You
know, it shifts someone's perception of reality.
It really does. And whether you, you know, you
look at it neurochemically or whether you look
at it, the shift from God's voice to the devil's
voice, however you want to interpret it, there
is that shift from. I need to be here for my
wife, for my kids, for my husband, for whoever,
my dog, whoever is most important to you. Two,
you're a burden to them. And if you just pull
that trigger, if you just step off that chair,
then their pain will go away. And of course,
it makes no sense at all. But this is what I
hear over and over and over again. A, being able
to pull someone back away from that temporary
psychosis and get them to where they're able
to kind of come down off that for a second, but
then lean into all these things that I've had
on the show. And this is a beautiful example
of that. This community that you're finding,
this equine therapy and what you're doing, you're
pulling that person away from that devil's voice
and putting it back into. the voice of God or
the voice of reason or whatever, again, someone's
certain beliefs are. But it kills me because
when we were young, we were told that suicide
was selfish and cowardly and how could you and
think of your children. But if you listen to
these people, that's where they're at. They truly
believe. And so it becomes selfless and courageous.
It's wrong. Because it's a distorted perception.
But at that moment, that's what they truly believe.
So then you get these professions that have literally
said, I will die for a complete stranger overseas
in my community. And it makes it even more of
a temptation because you've already signed that
blank check, as it were. So it's beautiful to
hear that these experiences are pulling some
of these veterans and police officers away from
that same place that you were when you were younger.
What I found is that I would say one of the movies
that probably was very profound and kind of shifted
some thinking that I had was American Sniper.
Yeah, I love Chris Kyle. I love that movie. One
of my favorites. But when he kept wanting to
be deployed. And they kept asking him why. And
he was like, well, people need saving. I'm paraphrasing,
obviously. I can't remember exactly what he told
the counselor when he was trying to get back
out there and serve again. And you could see
the problems that he was having coming home,
being able to shut it off. It's not like when
you're on red alert, you can just turn that off.
And that movie, I thought, really captivated
how hard it is just to be able to quiet that
noise down and that battle that he was having.
But when that guy told him, he said, let's go
take a look around. So they went and walked around,
and all the people that were here in the States
that were blown up or that were having heck and
this and that, he goes, there's plenty of guys
right here that need saving. And you could see
that that kind of rattled. It was a different
perspective. You could see it. Then we started
taking those guys shooting when they were in
their wheelchair, and he was taking them out
to the range. helping him shoot and then the
one guy had a spotter and they were going through
the the uh the math of being able to get the
bullet and the bullseye and bam he gets the bullseye
and the guy goes oh man i feel good i feel like
i got my balls back i can't tell you how many
times i've heard that when i get these guys on
their horses and they turn the steer for the
very first time guys are like damn i felt good
I got my balls back. I've heard that before.
So that really resonated with me. That was like
purpose for me. That was like, damn, these guys
are finding something where they're filling a
little bit of that hole, that void. For me, it
was helping because I was having purpose and
doing something that was greater than me. For
them, it was because they were finding something
that was that adrenaline rush, that competitiveness,
the bond between them and a horse. Maybe a little
bit of purpose. But to me, that's where it seems
like it's so hard is when a guy loses that purpose.
I don't know if we're wired like that as men
to not have purpose. I've seen so many guys when
they talk about their serving in the military
or even on the police forces, there was purpose.
And then coming back home and they told me it's
basically like a caboose. You know, when you're
in the military, it's a freight train. Freight
train. Anything that happens, you just throw
them back to the caboose. Throw them back to
the caboose. You know, friend gets shot, throw
them back to the caboose. See something that
you should have never seen, throw them back to
the caboose. This is something you can never
unsee, throw them back. Like I said, it's going
so fast. And they say when you come home, it's
like everything just comes to a complete halt.
And all those memories and everything just kind
of keep, just floods your mind to where they
don't. show anyone how to it seems like our government
has let our military down and the fact that no
one is there helping them develop the tools in
their mind to be able to help with those experiences
or or trauma that they have and now that you
can see that there's so many organizations now
that are trying to help with that but that's
the way they explained it to me and, and trying
to understand kind of what a lot of these guys
are going through. So the fact that team roping
is you're moving, you know, you're riding, you're
moving, you're doing stuff. And that's how the
mind's designed to work. And when it stops is
when they said is when they have heck. And so
that's, that's helped me understand a little
bit as one, when we're doing this is the goal
is to stay moving and, and laugh and, and, and
take jabs at each other. And. and have the camaraderie
and, and, um, you know, it's something that,
uh, I don't know. It's, it's when I hearing,
hearing God's voice and, and seeing him use me
to be able to do something I never would have
dreamt, um, for the baddest guys in the world,
men and women of the world. Um, you know, that
stuff means a lot to me, but it's, uh, it's cool
that I never would have dreamt in a million years
that just, roping steers would have put me in
a situation where it's, it's helping people,
um, cope with things that, uh, be able to help
them get their, the guys get their balls back
and, and, and, and getting purpose amongst some
of these men and women. Again, it's been pretty
cool. It just makes so much sense because it's
so many of the checking so many of the boxes
that we know are healing. Ironically, the opposite
of what everyone was told to do during COVID,
but. Be, you know, have community, be vulnerable,
have exercise, be outside, you know, be uncomfortable,
get dirty. I mean, all these these things that,
you know, I grew up in farm life are so great
for healing. You know, I mean, just being out
in nature, that that relationship with the horse.
So, you know, it really does resonate deeply.
Another interesting thing that I'm starting to
see surface now as a conversation, I think it
needs to happen. I grew up, you know, exposed
to Christianity. spiritual person i believe in
god but my own relationship is more kind of singular
but you know the the teachings that are within
the bible you know align with many other you
know holy books and they are if you if you boil
it down don't be a dick like be a good person
that's it's pretty easy to to you know to uh
figure that out but i see christianity hijacked
and used as as a as a tool for negativity as
a tool for division What made you choose the
church that you did? And obviously, I mean, listening
to what you have been talking about today, you
are understanding the compassion, the empathy,
the kindness that I think these holy books teach.
What is your perception of the way this religion
has been hijacked and being used in a way that
I would argue Jesus would be down here flipping
tables if he saw the way that it was being distorted?
100%. Well, the devil's a hell of a marketer.
You know, this is a world that's temporary. And
the devil's a hell of a marketer. You know, the
devil had me as a young age. I didn't know the
difference between love and lust. So he had me
tricked from the start. Cool. Cool comes with
a lot of fine print. You know, smoking was cool.
Drinking was cool. Chicks were cool. Well, there's
a lot of fine print in all of that. You know,
the devil doesn't expose the fine print. So when
a guy's living false, for me, not having church
in my life at a young age, you know, my mom took
me to some, I loved swimming as a young kid.
So there was a... a bible group bible camp that
she sent me to where you could go swim all the
time in the river and in the and so that that
at least got me there she didn't she wasn't very
religious but she sent me there but it what it
did is it at least created the voice in my head
that there was a conversation a little bit every
once in a while between me and god even though
i didn't understand him mtv bon jovi deaf leopard
you know uh white snake you know watching tony
katane you know on the hood of white snakes car
with the snake skin dress you know like that
stuff you know the like i said that was the devil's
marketing tool for me as a young age that all
was glamorous right and so you know so i was
tricked into a lot of the tools that the devil
used and and and being able to get you captivated
with lust and and and all those things and That
was my vice. And so I would say from teenage
years, college, up through my 30s in a way, I
always said it like this. I knew who God kind
of was, but I didn't know who the devil was.
So I always put it like this. If I was watching
a football team, or if i was watching a football
game i couldn't tell whose team was on whose
that made sense so when i that alan bach the
guy that i was telling you about that um now
structure was something i was appealed to a lot
too you know when i was in college one of my
best friends we went to his place and went and
ate for christmas i stayed there i never took
my hat off walking inside i never prayed before
a meal I never seen someone treat his wife and
put him on a pedestal like that. It was one of
those structured things, kind of like my dad
talked about the Marines, that I had seen that
I wanted to live, but I didn't know how. So I
had seen little things like that in other people's
families that I was very attracted to. But when
I was roping with that guy that I was telling
you about, that Alan Bach, he was also an ordained
minister. And when we roped together, he helped
me understand who Jesus was. And I would say
it like this. I believe it was Galatians 5, verse
22, I believe. And it talked about the fruit
of the Spirit. And it talked about joy, peace,
happiness, grace, love, like all the things that
it talks about in the fruit of the Spirit. What
I started understanding was those guys that were
living through a biblical lens, They had that.
And it was so attractive when I was there. They
were so peaceful to be around. I was like, how
can I be like those guys? Then it rewound to
Galatians 5, I believe it's verse 17. And it
talked about the sinful nature. The sinful nature
I understood. That was the life I was living.
Lust, jealousy, bitterness, impatience. So that's
the first time I noticed, finally, who was wearing
what jersey. And that gave me at least an idea
of like, okay, how do I, you know, instead of
focusing on what not to do, how do I focus now
to be the fruit of the Spirit? How do I get to
where I can live my life in these ways that...
And create that feeling. And that's probably
one of the things that really helped me identify
the difference between good and evil. Now, what
about the churches themselves, though? We have
this religion that has, you know, at its core,
kindness, compassion, love, empathy. But then
I see people standing on podiums and we're talking
about, you know, false idols. I think there's
a lot of them out there at the moment, especially
in politics. but who are using this for their
own personal gain. So what is your perception
on the hijacking of the religion itself? I feel
like there's false prophets. I feel like the
Pharisees are basically what our government looks
like now. I think Charlie Kirk did a very good
job of helping bring a lot of people together
where you're seeing presidents now talking about
their faith. We're seeing vice presidents talk
about their faith. We've seen a whole group of
people at his, Revival is what I call it, even
though it was his funeral, but it was a revival.
Politicians now getting closer to God. There
was more people that were affected by Charlie
Kirk's death of people that didn't even know
who he was, in my opinion, was because I think
God wept when he was assassinated. I feel like
we all had something tugging on us that we were
maybe never felt before. And I feel like it was
the Holy Spirit. I feel like there was when God
weeps, I feel like the Holy Spirit arises amongst
us. And I feel like that touched so many people.
And there were so many people that went to church
for the first time. They seen how he handled
his. you know how he handled his debates they
seen you know van jones when he got that dm from
him after he was assassinated say hey look i
would love to have you on my show i know we don't
get see eye to eye but i think we have a respectful
conversation he was bringing the biblical lens
to politics and it was something that we hadn't
seen it was refreshing um you know you've seen
god use him for his glory look at the the the
amount of people marching that You know, there
was no buildings burnt down. There was prayer.
And you could see that that God was that he gave
the glory to God and what he did and God used
him for his glory. And to me, I think that was
a huge testament and something that we haven't
seen in a very, very long time. That speaks in
my my opinion for itself. I really like Mark
Driscoll. I follow him a lot. One of my best
friends is an ordained minister and he's. He
ropes and we do a lot of clinics together. He's
always in the word. He lives it. I've seen it.
I believe it. So I'm not having to kind of, and
then our minister here, we go hang out a little
bit here and there and stuff, but he preaches
to where he is not scared to talk about right
from wrong. And to me, that's refreshing. He
talks about the difference. He truly does speak
through the Holy Spirit. And what I love about
him is he's not perfect. I think too many pastors
try to be perfect. This guy's real. He'll tell
you about where he screwed up. He'll tell you
about what he learned, and he'll tell you about
his mistakes to help you from making those himself.
And so those are the people that I feel like
that lead me as something who I believe that
they have Jesus and the Bible and trying to do
it in a way that is correct, and they're not
trying to manipulate themselves. And so that
has helped me with understanding it more. you
know i think it's hard you know when you talk
about the faith is you know you're trusting that
person when you tithe and you're trusting it
and so to me it's like um there's there's a lot
of people i think it's just a matter of finding
going and doing enough church because it's taken
me a lot of churches to where i've found the
ones that challenge me and that's the challenge
when you can feel yourself becoming the better
husband the challenge is when you can feel yourself
when you're you're going to And listen to a pastor,
we were being a better dad and a better father,
and you're trying to be a better person, that
challenge. And I think that Eric and Kurt really
did an amazing job talking about Charlie's challenge
for men, masculine men. You jump in front of
your wife. You take care of them. You are the
protector of your family. And also talked about
what not to do. She's not your servant. She's
not your slave. You know, I think that's where
masculinity fell in the toxic side of it. I'm
okay with that side of it. Masculinity is the
man that steps up. We pay the bills. We step
up. We make sure that our kids are getting the
right nutrition in their food, the right education
that they need, the handshake for my little boy
where he shakes his hand and he looks them in
the eye and he says, yes, sir. When I walk down
the street, my wife is on the inside. If there's
a car coming, I'm taking the hit. Trying to make
sure that I'm looking at the door when we're
sitting down, that I'm the protector. To me,
that's the masculinity that has gotten pulled
away because the devil has done an amazing job
with all this woke bullshit that's taken the
men away from the home. And we ain't tolerating
that shit in my house. Yeah. And just kind of
underlining what we talked about before the other
side of the spectrum is the chest beating, you
know, manly men, which is bollocks too, because
if you are a real man, then you've also got to
give space of vulnerability and allow your child,
your male child to cry on your shoulder sometimes
because they got the heartbroken and that's masculine
too. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yep.
Yeah. It is funny when you talk about the difference
between little boys and little girls, you know,
I always say that my little boy, man, when he
first showed up, like he's got my soul. you know
there's a there's a spot inside of you that you
can feel that uh you know this little man is
yours you know this molding um and it's made
me step up to and i've i've felt things i've
never felt if you've never had kids you won't
feel it you don't even know what i'm talking
about and i get it because i wouldn't have known
it either when that little boy showed up that
soul i just felt that spot in my soul and when
my little girl showed up i've never seen anything
that had my heart like she does it's funny it
feels like they're in different spots Same love,
but in different places. To me, for one, everyone
asked me, they said, when do you think you've
seen God for the first time? I said, number one
is a transformation my dad made. That's the first
time I've seen God. Because I knew who he was
before, and I've seen who he was when he left
this world. Wasn't the same man. I always say
it's not how you start, it's how you finish.
That was my dad. My dad finished. He finished
the race. And, you know, you don't have those
internal feelings of a parent until you have
a kid. And to me, that helped me understand more
of God when I started, when I had kids. Because
now I feel what it's like when they have something
that's the end of the world to them. You know,
they didn't get the dinosaur they wanted. It's
the end of the world, but it's going to be okay.
You know, when I was going to God saying that
this didn't happen for me, it's the end of the
world. No, it's not. No, it's not. You know,
started having a lot more of an understanding
of God by being a dad. Those little things that
are you think that are so big and they're really
not. And so it's been it's been amazing feeling
and seeing those things as I've grown up to where,
you know, I always say the Bible and horsemanship
are a lot alike. They're a book that never ends.
Absolutely. It was life changing when I had my
son because it was just literally that that moment
where you're like, oh, it's not about me. That's
it. It ceases to be about me now. Of course,
you've got to take care of yourself. I'm not
saying that. But everything I do now, they are
watching. I am completely accountable. I'm going
to make mistakes, but I'm going to have to apologize
for mistakes. I have to tell them, hey, what
I did. Exactly. 100%. All right. Well, then going
back to what's coming up then, talk to everyone
listening about the upcoming event, how they
can support it, how they can attend, or anything
else you want to talk about. When I talked about
the military event in 2020 that just kind of
blew up was we named it the Liberty and Loyalty
Foundation. And so within this five years, we
have added almost $100 ,000 to the roping events
for the military. And so that's through sponsorships.
uh donations that also come throughout the year
no one's on salary i'm not on salary my board's
not on salary all my military ambassadors and
first responders no one's on a salary this is
all our give back the only thing that gets pulled
out is we have people that go and find sponsorships
and there's commission out of that and so that
way like no one knows that this because i've
heard a lot of the guys talk about how leery
they are of these non -profits because of how
they've turned so um counterfeit i guess is maybe
a good word um profits to self -serving in a
in a non -profit right so we we're very leery
about that and like i said we have plenty of
military on our board that are making sure that
we this thing is is that way and so liberty and
loyalty foundation look it up with anyone that
serves we'd love to have you even if you don't
rope There's so many guys that come from back
east who just come out and hang out and watch
these guys come rope. You get to watch the best
guys in the world rope, and you get to watch
these guys rope with the best guys in the world
and rope with each other. There's 67 ,500 out
of just in the military first responder roping.
They get to rope for $30 ,000 in prize money
for first, and the rest of that money goes from
second to 15th. I have tried to make this thing
now to where when they told me this was the best
day of their life, I'm like, all right, let me
show you the cool stuff I got to do while you
guys are fighting for my freedom. So what I call
this the NFR showdown is what we have on Sunday
afternoon in Cowtown Coliseum in Fort Worth.
We go from NRS in Decatur, Texas, and have our
jackpots from Friday and Saturday to Sunday at
Cowtown Coliseum live on the Cowboy Channel,
which is our ESPN of our industry. And so the
military first responder roping, we take the
top 15 just like we do in the NFR. That Saturday
after the roping is where we have our gala. This
is where we raise our money. So we have auction
items from Kentucky Derby tickets to getting
to race a NASCAR to some hunts to all kinds of
stuff. This is where we raise our money with
our gala. Well, we have a back number ceremony,
which is exactly what happens at the NFR when
we make the NFR. So that's where the top 15 guys
are qualified. We get their back numbers. They
get pictures, have a big celebration for it,
and then we kick off our gala. And Greg Coker
is going to be our... our guest speaker this
year. So it's going to be exciting to have him.
Sunday, this is where the NFR guys show up, all
the top 15 in the world. Also last year, we're
trying to get him again this year, but last year,
Kojo showed up and came and roped with the NFR
guys, Cody Johnson, the country singer. And that's
where the top 15 military first responders run
their short round steer. So basically the Cowtown
Coliseum is the exact same dimensions as the
NFR in Vegas. So what I try to do is create an
NFR experience for these guys. They can watch
the NFR guys go, and then they get to rope in
that same setting. So at the NFR, we also, during
our grand entry, when we start our national anthem
and we introduce everything, at the NFR, we all
ride behind our state flags. Well, during my
event, all the military guys that made the top
15 and our first responders, they all ride behind
their branch flags. So they get that same NFR
experience is what it's like in Vegas, but their
short round steer is in the same field, same
setup. Our goal this year is even if you can't
donate, man, if you're in the vicinity, just
come watch. Come look at Liberty and Loyalty
Foundation. Check out, get tickets at Cowtown
Coliseum. This is the one thing I haven't got
to do yet. So I'll come back to that here in
just a second. But when they rope, all 15 guys
are paid, just like the NFR. We get paid to make
the NFR. So all these guys get paid. We pay down
to 15 holes. But when these guys win it, they
take the victory lap just like they do at the
NFR. We got saddles sitting there, buckles, a
check for $30 ,000. Katie Lucas from the Cowboy
Channels interview them. They're live on the
TV. And just getting that experience, what it
feels like to win the NFR. But the one thing
that I would love to be able to do is I would
love to pack that Cowtown Coliseum. because when
you ring the bell at a rodeo and that crowd erupts
is the coolest feeling in the world so what i've
been trying to do is i've been trying to promote
this event so much to get people to show up to
this event and get behind these guys these men
and women in this event and let them hear that
roar let them hear that because i'm telling you
it's the coolest thing um as far as competing
i think as as a guy can feel so that's kind of
what my goal is behind this so So for people
listening, where can they find the event online?
Where can they donate? And any other places on
social media? Yeah, libertyandloyalty .com. That's
got all the information on there between auction
items. A lot of our silent auction items are
online. You can bid on them there. Come to our
gala if you can on Saturday night. That's where
our live auction items are. And then come to
the event in Cowtown Coliseum. It's got the dates
on there, November 7th through the 8th in Decatur,
Texas, and then November 9th on Sunday at Cowtown
Coliseum. Beautiful. Well, I want to throw some
quick closing questions at you before I let you
go. The first one that I love to ask, is there
a book or are there books that you love to recommend?
It can be related to our discussion today or
completely unrelated. That's a good one. I think
money -wise, I would say the one that shifted
my thinking on success, on money, was I thought
Rich Dad, Poor Dad. I thought that was a really
good book that explained kind of the difference
between making money and making money work for
you. I thought those were really good. Um, you
know, the Bible obviously, but there's so many
different, there's so many different things that
you can read men's books that, uh, one of the
things that my Bible study group that we have
right now is, uh, the dialed in man. That's a
really good 40 day devotional book. Um, I really
like it. Um, and so those are, those are things
that I love. There's a lot of competition books
that I've read, you know, that helps with competition,
but. You know, all of all the books now that
I'm reading and podcast is something to do with
understanding more about the Bible, because I
can't tell you how many times I've read scripture.
And then somebody explained it this way. It's
like, oh, that's what that meant. And so the
devotionals is, you know, I love that real talk
with Mark Driscoll or real men with Mark Driscoll,
you know, and he's got so many good books out
there and, you know, finding your purpose and
becoming the men that God's called and created
us to be. You know, those are the things that
I'm. Right now, it's another one that the men's
playbook that we're reading by John Ramos has
been a really good devotional as well. You know,
looking for people, looking for opportunity to
add value in this world. You know, when you're
walking through Jesus and people can see it through
that example, that you might be the only Jesus
someone ever sees. And so when you're going in
public or when I'm going in public, you know,
what opportunities do I see that? How can I maybe
maybe maybe it's buying that person lunch, those
eating in there by themselves. Maybe it's saying
hello in such a nice way, or maybe it's the waiter
that, you know, I'm going to pray for my meals
or anything I can pray for you on. Just little
things that a guy can do that when they leave
there, feel like they were seen, felt like they
were. You know, in a world where everyone's looking
down at their phone, just so many different ways
out there. So I like the Dialed In Man and the
men's playbook that we've been reading here lately.
That's really made putting down my phone in public
and maybe being the only Jesus anyone ever sees
to try to try to become that man. So I really
like those books. Yeah, I mean, I agree 100%.
Going to a building on a Sunday or sticking a
fish on the back of your car doesn't make you
a good person. It's being Christ -like, not worshiping
blindly. Yeah, I love the thought of how do I
make my day through a biblical lens? How do I
handle any situation that I have that would,
there's a scripture that would fit that situation
that I can, you know, every day is a challenge.
You know, I mean. You think about purpose. Man,
if you're looking for it, there's plenty of ways
that every day can be a challenge to strive to
get better. But, man, to be a husband and to
be a father, you know, that's number one for
sure. And then now how do I set example for my
kids when I'm in public that is going to strive
them to try to become the same way? So those
are things when we talk about being accountable
and being the example. That's where I can really
see where God's worked on me with having my kids.
And now how do I become that man? Absolutely.
Well, we talked about books. What about films,
documentaries that you love? Yeah, Band of Brothers,
man. That was such a good one. I loved We Were
Soldiers. I thought Mel Gibson was such a great
leader. What was the one? Was it Fury with Brad
Pitt? The tank one, yeah. Yes, he was a great
leader. I love them. I love them. Like you see,
natural leadership. Oh, I love that. Those were
great ones. And then the Bannon Brothers, man,
was good because it helped me a lot with history.
Same with the Pacific. I love those. And obviously
Top Gun, man. I mean, shit. Who doesn't love
Top Gun? One and two. But, yeah, those were great.
And, you know, like for me, Rodeon, it's, you
know, eight seconds. That's a great one, man.
If you're new to the industry, 8 Seconds is a
great one. You know, I loved a lot of football
movies, things like that. But, you know, as far
as leadership, I loved watching those movies.
And then, yeah, the 8 Seconds was good. Western's
a really good Western. Obviously, Lonesome Dove
is the greatest Western probably ever. Anything
John Wayne. from Rio Bravo to the Cowboys. But
one that's not out there that's really, really
good, because I'm a Tommy Lee Jones fan, is The
Good Old Boys. Man, that's a good classic. But
one of the greatest, one of the best competition
ones that I liked the most was Seven Days in
Utopia. And that one's not on a lot of people's
radar. That was a great movie. It's a golf movie.
It's about competition. But it was a really good
Christian -based movie that really keeps things
in perspective on how to compete. But also it's
got Robert Duvall in it, so you can't go wrong
there. But it's probably one of the best life
movies as far as competing and keeping things
grounded. I really love that movie. I just saw
a clip today on social media, and I don't follow
golf, so I don't know exactly who it was, but
it was an American golfer saying he'll never
play in the States again just because of the
disrespect that was happening to the golfers
while they were trying to play in this most recent
championship. So it's interesting what was perceived
as such a... I guess you'd use the word gentlemanly
game. How even that, this nastiness has even
perforated the golf course now. Did it sound
like Happy Gilmore? Yeah, exactly. At least that
was all tongue in cheek. This is real life. I
just seen it a little bit on X, but yeah, it
didn't sound good, but it almost sounded like
the Happy Gilmore crowd infiltrated the golf.
It sounded like. Yeah, exactly. All right. um
the next question another good one another good
one i think on and i apologize i didn't mean
to interrupt you no no please another good one
that i really liked on on becoming a great man
i thought was courageous courageous and um the
forge those were two good ones um that uh helped
me become a better dad try to become a better
dad and also become the forge was a really good
one with helping that that helped me start my
bible study group and then also trying to do
more in my community those were those were good,
inspiring movies that I thought too. Brilliant.
Well, the next question, is there a person you'd
recommend to come on this podcast as a guest
to speak to the first responders, military and
associated professions of the world? Todd Hornbuckle.
Oh, call sign horny. He's a bad -ass man. I love
that dude. Great story. Great man. Inspiring.
Love that guy, man. Love his story. Fantastic.
All right. Well, the very last question before
we make sure we underline where everyone can
find all the things we talked about today. What
do you do to decompress? My kids is pretty good,
but sometimes that doesn't always work because
they can get a little stressful. Every once in
a while, man, I loved it when Top Gun came out.
I went to the movies and just kind of got away
from everything, went by myself. I love the movies.
I love popcorn. We have a tiny little pool here.
Every once in a while, I was getting in that
thing. It was a Texas heat. It's pretty hot.
Sometimes driving by myself, a good podcast,
a good movie. Sometimes that, that is just enough,
especially in inspirational movies. Like I say,
courageous and the forge and seven days in utopia,
you know, those were inspirational movies where
you can just take that time and kind of decompress.
But then also it's that recharge of. when you
do come back where you feel like your purpose
is back again um those are those are good ways
um for me and then sometimes too when i just
need my ass kicked i i take jiu jitsu once a
week um and sometimes just getting your ass kicked
every once in a while is a little good for you
you know it's uh i i enjoy the constant learning
i enjoy the um the developing the new craft and
sometimes that is is uh recharging in itself.
So those are kind of some things that I do. I
did jujitsu today before we sat down. And yeah,
humbling once again. I said that I've got these
amazing calluses on my hands from tapping all
the time. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I swear the
guy that I train with has three hands. I don't
know where they come from. It's amazing. All
right. Well, Charlie, I want to thank you so
much. Again, thank you to Greg for making this
connection. But I mean, you know, not only just
telling your story and what you're doing now
for, you know, these incredible professions,
but also for displaying this courageous vulnerability
that we were talking about. I mean, you come
from a very arguably manly professional sport,
but then we spent a lot of time talking about
the other side too. And I think it's so important.
So I want to thank you so much for being so generous
with your time and coming on the Behind the Shield
podcast today. I appreciate the opportunity,
James. And, you know, I give the glory to God.
And that's who has put this opportunity that
I've been able to do. I just thank him each and
every day for giving me the ability to do what
I was called and created to do, I feel like.
So I appreciate this platform, James, to be able
to get on your show. So I appreciate you.