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Now, on top of all 00:01:22.920 --> 00:01:25.500 that, Rescue One is offering you, the listener 00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:28.700 of the Behind the Shield podcast, 15 % off your 00:01:28.700 --> 00:01:32.180 order if you use the code BTS, as in Behind the 00:01:32.180 --> 00:01:34.900 Shield. And you can find all of their products. 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:36.920 You can find all of the testing and understand 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:39.859 why this truly is a product that you can trust 00:01:39.859 --> 00:01:45.040 by going to rescueonecbd .com. And you can listen 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:47.859 to my conversation with John on episode 1011 00:01:47.859 --> 00:01:51.409 of the Behind the Shield podcast. Welcome to 00:01:51.409 --> 00:01:53.129 the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my 00:01:53.129 --> 00:01:54.930 name is James Geering, and this week it is my 00:01:54.930 --> 00:01:57.129 absolute honor to welcome back onto the show 00:01:57.129 --> 00:02:00.950 surfer and the man behind Surfers Not Street 00:02:00.950 --> 00:02:04.870 Children, Tom Hewitt. Now, if you haven't heard 00:02:04.870 --> 00:02:07.290 my first conversation with Tom, it is episode 00:02:07.290 --> 00:02:10.990 251, and I highly recommend you listen to that 00:02:10.990 --> 00:02:13.930 first. In the second conversation, we discuss 00:02:13.930 --> 00:02:17.169 a host of topics, from the impact of the COVID 00:02:17.169 --> 00:02:20.930 pandemic on the children in that region, some 00:02:20.930 --> 00:02:23.610 encouraging signs when it comes to the AIDS epidemic, 00:02:23.849 --> 00:02:26.889 some beautiful success stories from their program, 00:02:26.930 --> 00:02:30.129 including Indy, a high -level female surfer, 00:02:30.150 --> 00:02:33.330 and so much more. Now, before we get to this 00:02:33.330 --> 00:02:35.830 incredible conversation, as I say every week, 00:02:35.930 --> 00:02:39.189 please just take a moment. Go to whichever app 00:02:39.189 --> 00:02:41.699 you listen to this on. Subscribe to the show, 00:02:41.919 --> 00:02:45.680 leave feedback, and leave a rating. Every single 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:49.020 five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast, 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:51.699 therefore making it easier for others to find. 00:02:51.860 --> 00:02:56.219 And this is a free library of well over 1 ,100 00:02:56.219 --> 00:03:00.199 episodes now. So all I ask in return is that 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:03.000 you help share these incredible men and women's 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:06.620 stories so I can get them to every single person 00:03:06.620 --> 00:03:10.180 on planet Earth who needs to hear them. So with 00:03:10.180 --> 00:03:13.080 that being said, I welcome back onto the show 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:37.349 Tom Hewitt. Enjoy. Well, Tom, I want to say thank 00:03:37.349 --> 00:03:40.189 you so much for taking the time and coming back 00:03:40.189 --> 00:03:43.370 onto the Behind the Shield podcast today. Oh, 00:03:43.389 --> 00:03:45.430 it's great to be back. Good to see you, James. 00:03:45.990 --> 00:03:48.569 So the last time we sat down, which blew both 00:03:48.569 --> 00:03:50.330 of our minds before we hit record, was November 00:03:50.330 --> 00:03:54.669 2019. It does not seem that long ago. That being 00:03:54.669 --> 00:03:57.710 said, that was a very pertinent time for the 00:03:57.710 --> 00:03:59.550 planet because that was only a few short months 00:03:59.550 --> 00:04:02.909 before the pandemic hit. So I think a good kind 00:04:02.909 --> 00:04:06.310 of icebreaker would be What was that experience 00:04:06.310 --> 00:04:08.050 through your eyes? I mean, obviously, you've 00:04:08.050 --> 00:04:10.449 got your roots in South Africa. You also, you 00:04:10.449 --> 00:04:13.469 know, are British. And then how did that affect, 00:04:13.550 --> 00:04:16.009 you know, Surfers Not Street Children and the 00:04:16.009 --> 00:04:20.189 children themselves? Yeah, well, the pandemic 00:04:20.189 --> 00:04:23.829 period was, I think, for all sort of nonprofits, 00:04:24.069 --> 00:04:29.290 it was a pretty scary time. I was actually in 00:04:29.290 --> 00:04:34.230 South Africa as it was all happening. And we've 00:04:34.230 --> 00:04:37.050 got programs in both South Africa and Mozambique. 00:04:37.089 --> 00:04:40.009 And each country was handling things just a little 00:04:40.009 --> 00:04:42.689 bit differently. And we assume that whatever 00:04:42.689 --> 00:04:45.750 South Africa does, Mozambique will do sort of 00:04:45.750 --> 00:04:48.209 a couple of weeks later. So in South Africa, 00:04:48.250 --> 00:04:50.470 we could see sort of the writing on the wall 00:04:50.470 --> 00:04:53.870 that the borders were going to be closed. We 00:04:53.870 --> 00:04:56.060 didn't really know at the time. what was coming 00:04:56.060 --> 00:04:59.139 i was quite you know i had been in sierra leone 00:04:59.139 --> 00:05:02.120 during ebola so i was looking at the like the 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:05.740 stats and saying what you know this is like that's 00:05:05.740 --> 00:05:08.240 the risk it's not going to be much i really didn't 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:11.740 think it would be a very big deal and um and 00:05:11.740 --> 00:05:14.060 so but but as things looked as if there was going 00:05:14.060 --> 00:05:17.899 to be closures i um i was just preparing the 00:05:17.899 --> 00:05:20.100 staff in south africa and then i realized that 00:05:20.100 --> 00:05:21.759 i actually needed to get across the border to 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:24.660 mozambique and go up there and work with the 00:05:24.660 --> 00:05:27.420 staff there you know just in case and actually 00:05:27.420 --> 00:05:31.319 i i was with my son in mozambique first and my 00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:33.600 son siandra i left him in mozambique with with 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:37.259 my friends and um went back to south africa we 00:05:37.259 --> 00:05:39.519 did some prep stuff and then i saw they were 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:42.000 closing the border so i thought oh man i can't 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:45.870 leave my son in Mozambique during the pandemic. 00:05:46.129 --> 00:05:48.050 We didn't know how long it was going to be, but 00:05:48.050 --> 00:05:50.470 I raced across the border and was working with 00:05:50.470 --> 00:05:53.110 them there. And then that actually closed down 00:05:53.110 --> 00:05:55.149 quickly. We thought we'd have a couple of weeks, 00:05:55.189 --> 00:05:58.170 but it was about four days. And actually by then, 00:05:58.269 --> 00:06:03.250 I actually jumped on a plane to the UK because 00:06:03.250 --> 00:06:05.470 South Africa was closed. I couldn't get back 00:06:05.470 --> 00:06:11.620 in. So I got out. I spent the pandemic, the first 00:06:11.620 --> 00:06:15.180 lockdown in the UK, but obviously managing what 00:06:15.180 --> 00:06:16.879 was happening in South Africa with the local 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:19.600 team and managing with the local team in Mozambique. 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:22.120 It was a crazy time, not least of all because 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:25.079 we just didn't really know what was going on. 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:27.540 We didn't know who to believe. We didn't understand 00:06:27.540 --> 00:06:31.079 what was happening. So obviously on the one level, 00:06:31.079 --> 00:06:34.779 we wanted to be as safe as possible. On the other 00:06:34.779 --> 00:06:38.189 hand, it was a terrible time for... trying to 00:06:38.189 --> 00:06:41.329 maintain sort of income into the organization. 00:06:41.889 --> 00:06:46.029 So the first thing we did was to chat with one 00:06:46.029 --> 00:06:50.069 or two donors of ours who are high net worth 00:06:50.069 --> 00:06:53.610 and just say, look, you know, if the shit hits 00:06:53.610 --> 00:06:58.189 the fan, will you be there for us? We don't know. 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:01.339 how this is going to play. And a couple of people 00:07:01.339 --> 00:07:03.279 did say, hey, listen, just get in touch if you 00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:06.980 need it. And so we actually made it through. 00:07:07.079 --> 00:07:09.779 And it was a tricky time because, you know, we 00:07:09.779 --> 00:07:13.199 had to adapt all of our programs. I mean, how 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:16.000 do you run programs for the most marginalized 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:23.180 in really difficult areas in South Africa if 00:07:23.180 --> 00:07:26.959 you can't actually meet together? So it presented 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:31.259 huge problems for us as an organization. But 00:07:31.259 --> 00:07:34.160 we worked closely along the guidelines and we 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:36.300 actually kept our programs running throughout 00:07:36.300 --> 00:07:39.819 the pandemic and versions of our program. But 00:07:39.819 --> 00:07:42.720 it was, yeah, it was a horrendous time, I suppose, 00:07:42.860 --> 00:07:45.459 for many people. But as an NGO, as a nonprofit, 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:48.699 it was a really tricky time. But we survived 00:07:48.699 --> 00:07:51.279 it. And I say survived because we didn't sort 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:54.769 of have a... blowing up of income um but we we 00:07:54.769 --> 00:07:59.589 did certainly uh we we got through well i know 00:07:59.589 --> 00:08:02.509 obviously how tight it was in the uk until that 00:08:02.509 --> 00:08:04.389 christmas party when everything magically opened 00:08:04.389 --> 00:08:08.930 up again how what was it as far as south africa 00:08:08.930 --> 00:08:11.170 and mozambique what were the the children themselves 00:08:11.170 --> 00:08:14.170 experiencing as far as the regulations and lockdowns 00:08:14.170 --> 00:08:17.930 there lockdown was really strict in south africa 00:08:17.930 --> 00:08:21.569 and in mozambique in fact um there was no surfing 00:08:21.569 --> 00:08:24.100 allowed You know, people weren't allowed on beaches. 00:08:24.139 --> 00:08:25.779 And when we look back at it, we think, man, that's 00:08:25.779 --> 00:08:29.000 crazy with what we know. It's like, wow, probably 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:31.060 the safest place you could have been was in the 00:08:31.060 --> 00:08:35.019 ocean or on the beach or outdoors, you know. 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:38.360 So, you know, with hindsight, we look back at 00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:40.139 it and we think, wow, that was a nuts period. 00:08:40.340 --> 00:08:44.019 But it was very strict. And the guidelines were, 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:48.299 you know, such that you could go to the shops, 00:08:48.379 --> 00:08:51.159 you could pick up. supplies but you're really 00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:53.740 limited on on what uh recreational activities 00:08:53.740 --> 00:08:56.059 you can do and the police would get involved 00:08:56.059 --> 00:08:58.879 in fact our um the director of our program in 00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:01.820 mozambique was arrested for surfing uh which 00:09:01.820 --> 00:09:05.919 just seems so nuts insane and also the the irony 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:09.799 is that the kids we work with live in these really 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:13.759 overcrowded areas downtown areas so actually 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:15.980 if you the more time the kids would spend on 00:09:15.980 --> 00:09:18.389 the beach and in you know surfing and stuff would 00:09:18.389 --> 00:09:20.889 be way healthier again with hindsight and well 00:09:20.889 --> 00:09:23.350 we believed it at the time but the rules were 00:09:23.350 --> 00:09:26.730 set um so it's really different in south africa 00:09:26.730 --> 00:09:29.490 i'm talking specifically about that first lockdown 00:09:29.490 --> 00:09:33.389 um i i went back to south africa after the first 00:09:33.389 --> 00:09:36.169 lockdown i managed to get back um straight after 00:09:36.169 --> 00:09:38.730 that and check in with everybody and spend some 00:09:38.730 --> 00:09:42.450 time back um back there uk was weird i mean i 00:09:42.450 --> 00:09:45.909 you know i just worked and sort of in the daytime 00:09:45.909 --> 00:09:48.029 I was on my laptop as if I was in South Africa, 00:09:48.149 --> 00:09:52.129 but we could surf. So it was a crazy sort of 00:09:52.129 --> 00:09:55.570 empty surf like moment, which was kind of weird 00:09:55.570 --> 00:09:58.429 looking back on as well. But yeah, it was hard 00:09:58.429 --> 00:10:00.889 for the kids and obviously hard for them to process, 00:10:01.090 --> 00:10:03.610 you know, these types of things as it was for 00:10:03.610 --> 00:10:06.919 even for adults as well. So what was the impact 00:10:06.919 --> 00:10:09.399 on the children? I've had so many conversations 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:12.139 recently, and I always revisit this if we haven't 00:10:12.139 --> 00:10:15.779 spoken since that time, because after this concluded, 00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:17.519 I don't know if it was the same in South Africa, 00:10:17.639 --> 00:10:21.480 but certainly in the UK, the US, it's like, well, 00:10:21.500 --> 00:10:23.860 let's just not talk about that anymore. When 00:10:23.860 --> 00:10:25.919 anything else, if you and I are working for a 00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:28.059 company and we made a horrendous error that cost 00:10:28.059 --> 00:10:31.259 lives and money, we probably wouldn't be working 00:10:31.259 --> 00:10:33.259 there anymore, no matter learning from what we 00:10:33.259 --> 00:10:36.840 did wrong. The ripple effect, for example, on 00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:38.519 the mental health side, which I know is a big 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:41.379 part of what you do with the children. What was 00:10:41.379 --> 00:10:43.980 the damage that was done by some of these poor 00:10:43.980 --> 00:10:47.840 choices? Well, certainly in the South African 00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:51.100 context, it disrupted the kids' education quite 00:10:51.100 --> 00:10:56.240 profoundly. And it had one major impact on us 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:59.320 as a charity in relation to the kids was that 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:03.250 we've always provided a nutrition program. because 00:11:03.250 --> 00:11:06.330 the kids are unable to, some of the kids are 00:11:06.330 --> 00:11:08.470 unable to, their families are unable to provide 00:11:08.470 --> 00:11:13.129 nutritional food for them. And so we at least 00:11:13.129 --> 00:11:17.970 had one nutrition meal per day just to make sure 00:11:17.970 --> 00:11:20.769 they're getting really healthy stuff. And during 00:11:20.769 --> 00:11:23.610 that time, even the meager income that some of 00:11:23.610 --> 00:11:26.389 their families had just dried up. So for the 00:11:26.389 --> 00:11:29.669 poorest of the poor, suddenly you couldn't, there 00:11:29.669 --> 00:11:32.129 was no way you could even find meager income. 00:11:33.049 --> 00:11:36.549 even such as begging, you know, right at the 00:11:36.549 --> 00:11:39.809 bottom of it. So we then had to expand our nutrition 00:11:39.809 --> 00:11:42.850 program, which was a massive cost. So when we 00:11:42.850 --> 00:11:44.950 were trying to sort of bring costs down because 00:11:44.950 --> 00:11:48.090 of income not coming in, we suddenly had to start 00:11:48.090 --> 00:11:51.110 a whole new sort of chapter, this expanded nutrition 00:11:51.110 --> 00:11:53.769 program. And, you know, we've got 130 kids in 00:11:53.769 --> 00:11:57.269 the program. And with our nutrition program and 00:11:57.269 --> 00:11:58.929 food parcels and all these things, we're feeding. 00:11:59.340 --> 00:12:00.620 much more than that because we're feeding the 00:12:00.620 --> 00:12:02.559 siblings of those kids, sometimes the parents 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:06.340 as well. So these are pretty major. And you could 00:12:06.340 --> 00:12:11.100 see that the kids just weren't getting the interactions 00:12:11.100 --> 00:12:12.720 that they used to get because part of what we 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:14.720 do is ensure that every child is back in school. 00:12:15.700 --> 00:12:18.600 And that's a really major part of the program 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:21.039 because, you know, if you're not in school and 00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:23.080 you're living around these downtown streets areas, 00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:26.360 you will become part of street life. and our 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:28.480 program is a diversion from street life and in 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:32.440 many cases a rescue from street life but um you 00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:35.500 know during that time there wasn't really much 00:12:35.500 --> 00:12:37.919 of a plan for those living in these impoverished 00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:40.740 areas so for example the sort of the so -called 00:12:40.740 --> 00:12:43.559 downtown shelters which are not great places 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:46.539 at all so by not going to school the kids were 00:12:46.539 --> 00:12:48.799 hanging out all day at these so -called shelters 00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:50.620 so we were fighting to say well you know way 00:12:50.620 --> 00:12:53.620 better for them to be with us um to come to our 00:12:53.620 --> 00:12:56.179 program than be you know, caught up in street 00:12:56.179 --> 00:12:59.840 life. So, yeah, it was a crazy time and had massive 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:04.679 detrimental effect on the kids that we could 00:13:04.679 --> 00:13:07.679 really sort of tangibly see that, you know, missing 00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:10.019 out on education, not just academically, but 00:13:10.019 --> 00:13:13.399 also the interactions of being around other kids 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:16.879 that aren't living in their sort of the shelter 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:19.299 that they're living in or on the streets in some 00:13:19.299 --> 00:13:24.350 cases was a massive gap in their lives. One thing 00:13:24.350 --> 00:13:26.429 I've heard from some of the psychologists, and 00:13:26.429 --> 00:13:29.090 this is heartbreaking, this is in the US and 00:13:29.090 --> 00:13:32.929 the UK, is the schools a lot of times were where 00:13:32.929 --> 00:13:35.590 outcries would happen, where children would say 00:13:35.590 --> 00:13:37.909 that there was something devious going on at 00:13:37.909 --> 00:13:39.590 home, whether it was sexual abuse or whatever 00:13:39.590 --> 00:13:41.789 it was. And now they didn't have the ability 00:13:41.789 --> 00:13:43.830 to report because they weren't in school. So 00:13:43.830 --> 00:13:46.649 as they came back, a lot of that had been buried 00:13:46.649 --> 00:13:51.029 down as well. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a... 00:13:51.690 --> 00:13:54.110 It happened in many, many communities around 00:13:54.110 --> 00:13:56.909 the world and certainly in our community. I mean, 00:13:56.929 --> 00:13:59.470 the very reason we have the program as a diversion 00:13:59.470 --> 00:14:01.990 program is because if those kids are in those 00:14:01.990 --> 00:14:05.190 environments all day, all night, the worst that 00:14:05.190 --> 00:14:07.250 you can imagine will happen to them. That is 00:14:07.250 --> 00:14:09.809 what our program is about. And although we don't 00:14:09.809 --> 00:14:12.789 split up families, we do ensure that they're 00:14:12.789 --> 00:14:15.809 in safe environments when they're with their 00:14:15.809 --> 00:14:18.320 families. But during the day. you know anything 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:21.120 can happen and so the more they're in the program 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:23.759 the less they're around the streets and and that 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:27.080 was really hampered during that time it was at 00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:30.179 one stage actually difficult for us to even run 00:14:30.179 --> 00:14:32.659 our programs that we didn't know if we were you 00:14:32.659 --> 00:14:34.639 know running things according to the law at that 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:37.899 stage it was so complicated but also there's 00:14:37.899 --> 00:14:40.419 a level of chaos in the area that we operate 00:14:40.419 --> 00:14:44.450 anyway so you know we we managed to carry on 00:14:44.450 --> 00:14:47.929 doing our work. And there were some emergency 00:14:47.929 --> 00:14:51.549 programs such as ours that were allowed to continue. 00:14:51.710 --> 00:14:55.970 So I think a blind eye was shown. We just did 00:14:55.970 --> 00:14:58.350 the best we could during that time. But undoubtedly, 00:14:58.610 --> 00:15:02.129 there have been effects, certainly in terms of, 00:15:02.149 --> 00:15:04.730 as I mentioned, the kids' education, access to 00:15:04.730 --> 00:15:06.909 people who aren't in that immediate bubble of 00:15:06.909 --> 00:15:09.889 theirs. And yeah, that's the other thing. We 00:15:09.889 --> 00:15:12.769 just don't really... We're not able to really 00:15:12.769 --> 00:15:17.149 comprehend what abuses kids were exposed to because 00:15:17.149 --> 00:15:20.990 there was just more downtime in those really 00:15:20.990 --> 00:15:26.669 overcrowded areas. What were you seeing as far 00:15:26.669 --> 00:15:29.330 as actual deaths in South Africa and Mozambique 00:15:29.330 --> 00:15:34.529 from COVID specifically? Yeah, look, I didn't 00:15:34.529 --> 00:15:39.269 see much, to be honest. And one of the... I'm 00:15:39.269 --> 00:15:42.769 kind of... I'm kind of angry about COVID, if 00:15:42.769 --> 00:15:44.509 I'm to be honest with you, about how it all went 00:15:44.509 --> 00:15:47.210 down. And exactly what you said earlier, that 00:15:47.210 --> 00:15:48.909 there isn't sort of a truth and reconciliation 00:15:48.909 --> 00:15:51.870 commission afterwards to sort of sit down and 00:15:51.870 --> 00:15:54.690 say, what was real? What wasn't real? What was 00:15:54.690 --> 00:15:58.870 manipulated? Where did corporations, governments 00:15:58.870 --> 00:16:03.269 overstep? I think there's so many things that 00:16:03.269 --> 00:16:05.289 it should be absolutely okay to talk about. Why 00:16:05.289 --> 00:16:07.590 weren't we allowed to suggest things like herd 00:16:07.590 --> 00:16:10.070 immunity? You know, why were certain things dirty 00:16:10.070 --> 00:16:13.190 words? So I'm kind of like in a, you know, I 00:16:13.190 --> 00:16:17.870 sit definitely politically much more left. But 00:16:17.870 --> 00:16:22.590 on this one, on COVID, what scares me is sort 00:16:22.590 --> 00:16:27.090 of how authoritarian it was. And that would be, 00:16:27.190 --> 00:16:32.649 and I do feel really angry about many responses 00:16:32.649 --> 00:16:38.809 to COVID. Yeah, I think just remind me what the 00:16:38.809 --> 00:16:40.450 original question was. I got off on a tangent. 00:16:40.590 --> 00:16:43.409 That's okay. Just the actual impact that you 00:16:43.409 --> 00:16:46.289 saw, the deaths from COVID specifically. So the 00:16:46.289 --> 00:16:48.889 death, yeah. I didn't see much. I did have two 00:16:48.889 --> 00:16:53.350 friends who passed away during that time. Both 00:16:53.350 --> 00:17:01.230 definitely had underlying symptoms, diseases. 00:17:01.690 --> 00:17:05.890 Both were overweight. So there were two people 00:17:05.890 --> 00:17:08.730 that I knew. passed away during that time. I 00:17:08.730 --> 00:17:12.529 don't know. I assume they had COVID. I don't 00:17:12.529 --> 00:17:15.269 know if they would have passed away at some stage 00:17:15.269 --> 00:17:18.390 with or without it. I just don't know. But that's 00:17:18.390 --> 00:17:20.730 what I knew. So here's what I found really interesting. 00:17:21.029 --> 00:17:25.569 When it first started, and I don't doubt that 00:17:25.569 --> 00:17:28.750 there was such a thing as COVID. I'm not suggesting 00:17:28.750 --> 00:17:31.190 for a minute there wasn't. But when COVID first 00:17:31.190 --> 00:17:34.970 happened, the biggest panic that we had Now, 00:17:35.029 --> 00:17:37.390 I worked with street kids during the HIV AIDS 00:17:37.390 --> 00:17:42.950 crisis. And Durban or KZN was the epicenter of 00:17:42.950 --> 00:17:45.890 Africa's HIV AIDS crisis. So I worked with the 00:17:45.890 --> 00:17:48.410 homeless kids during that time. So we saw death 00:17:48.410 --> 00:17:52.990 during that. And the biggest fear was that COVID 00:17:52.990 --> 00:17:57.450 was going to basically attack those with HIV, 00:17:57.690 --> 00:18:02.269 that their immune systems would be less and couldn't 00:18:02.269 --> 00:18:07.680 put up with it. absolutely nothing to suggest 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:11.819 that it had any impact whatsoever. And I'm not 00:18:11.819 --> 00:18:15.700 saying that from a knowledgeable scientific perspective, 00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:19.380 simply from knowing many, many, many people, 00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:23.079 adults and children with HIV in South Africa, 00:18:23.140 --> 00:18:27.099 and seeing absolutely no discernible, no difference, 00:18:27.339 --> 00:18:31.319 and certainly no deaths that could be attributed 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:34.450 to that with the people. that are in my sphere 00:18:34.450 --> 00:18:37.069 and that that is still you know this the number 00:18:37.069 --> 00:18:40.349 of people in our region with hiv the aids is 00:18:40.349 --> 00:18:45.210 still high that being said aside from you know 00:18:45.210 --> 00:18:49.529 hiv or aids as a whole south africa mozambique 00:18:49.529 --> 00:18:52.470 what is the level of obesity there compared to 00:18:52.470 --> 00:18:57.029 the us the uk it's quite high obesity is high 00:18:57.029 --> 00:19:01.520 in south africa and it's because uh sugar and 00:19:01.520 --> 00:19:07.720 carbohydrates are so staple. And also a lot of 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:10.119 people are poor, so they're eating what they 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:14.200 can afford to eat. And so sugary snacks, sugary 00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:19.400 drinks, complex carbohydrates, that's what's 00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:22.480 available. That's what's cheap. And so South 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:27.779 Africa is a high level of obesity. And I have 00:19:27.779 --> 00:19:31.750 heard that... And lots of people did die who 00:19:31.750 --> 00:19:33.930 were obese during that time in South Africa. 00:19:33.990 --> 00:19:36.430 I just don't have any knowledge on it myself 00:19:36.430 --> 00:19:39.869 outside of reading stuff. Well, this is what 00:19:39.869 --> 00:19:41.930 I was saying. We were talking before we hit record. 00:19:42.049 --> 00:19:44.450 I try and stand in the middle and gather as many 00:19:44.450 --> 00:19:46.650 normal people as possible when I have my conversations. 00:19:47.150 --> 00:19:51.529 During COVID, you know, one thing was terminating 00:19:51.529 --> 00:19:54.809 doctors, nurses, firefighters, paramedics, police 00:19:54.809 --> 00:19:56.950 officers, et cetera, because they wouldn't take 00:19:56.950 --> 00:20:00.380 the vaccine. is wrong, hands down. And as time 00:20:00.380 --> 00:20:02.599 went on and we saw the efficacy became less and 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:04.440 less and less compared to what they said it was, 00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:06.920 that became even more and more of a truth. But 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:09.099 regardless, people were fine with these people 00:20:09.099 --> 00:20:11.779 being on the front line with barely any PPE, 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:14.059 with no vaccinations. And then all of a sudden, 00:20:14.099 --> 00:20:16.279 those same people were murderers now. So that 00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:17.920 was one where I held my ground and had people 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:19.480 on the show and said, this is disgusting. This 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:22.029 shouldn't be happening. But another one. which 00:20:22.029 --> 00:20:26.509 again, heresy, James Gearing, was the whole comorbidity 00:20:26.509 --> 00:20:28.890 conversation. And it was very simple. Whether 00:20:28.890 --> 00:20:32.230 you decided that the vaccine was the holy grail 00:20:32.230 --> 00:20:34.549 of medicine or whether this whole thing was a 00:20:34.549 --> 00:20:37.829 Chinese conspiracy, the middle ground was the 00:20:37.829 --> 00:20:39.750 healthier you make the nation, the higher chance 00:20:39.750 --> 00:20:42.049 people have of surviving whatever this thing 00:20:42.049 --> 00:20:45.309 is. And so if you choose to have a vaccine where 00:20:45.309 --> 00:20:47.369 you've got to have a healthy immunoresponse to 00:20:47.369 --> 00:20:50.150 that vaccine to build your immune system to then... 00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:52.599 stave off this virus if you choose not to have 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:55.140 a vaccine you need a healthy immune system to 00:20:55.140 --> 00:20:58.920 stave off the virus unprotected so working on 00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:01.559 the the physical health the mental health of 00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:04.720 the population became the absolute truth in my 00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:07.640 opinion but again you know what you saw was all 00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:10.400 the things that should have happened were demonized 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:12.619 and instead people were told stay in your home 00:21:12.619 --> 00:21:15.579 don't see your friends and family deliver fast 00:21:15.579 --> 00:21:17.559 food and alcohol to your house, binge watch the 00:21:17.559 --> 00:21:20.160 tiger King. And we'll tell you when you can come 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:23.900 out versus go to the gyms, go to the beaches, 00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:26.720 surf, get sunshine, hang out with people, but 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:28.579 don't lick each other's faces and don't go see 00:21:28.579 --> 00:21:31.960 a, you know, 200 year old grandmother or, you 00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:33.880 know what I mean? There was just so many common 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:36.099 sense things that were completely disregarded. 00:21:36.259 --> 00:21:39.950 And it was such a disservice to. the gyms, the 00:21:39.950 --> 00:21:43.329 organizations like yours, that truly were actually 00:21:43.329 --> 00:21:47.329 making people more resistant to this virus by 00:21:47.329 --> 00:21:51.430 increasing their activity level, improving their 00:21:51.430 --> 00:21:53.789 mental health, and even the vitamin D element 00:21:53.789 --> 00:21:56.089 that seems to be pretty prominent now, getting 00:21:56.089 --> 00:22:00.430 sunshine. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that, 00:22:00.470 --> 00:22:04.230 like I said, I wish there was some sort of truth 00:22:04.230 --> 00:22:07.470 and reconciliation. commission over it and not 00:22:07.470 --> 00:22:10.750 to string people up, but rather so we don't make 00:22:10.750 --> 00:22:13.130 these mistakes again. Because like I said, I'm 00:22:13.130 --> 00:22:15.269 not debating that there wasn't such a thing as 00:22:15.269 --> 00:22:18.089 COVID, of course. I'm not even debating whether 00:22:18.089 --> 00:22:21.250 it was dangerous or not. Let's assume it was. 00:22:22.049 --> 00:22:28.369 Where I take issue is what I think was a lot 00:22:28.369 --> 00:22:31.630 of opportunism around it. That's certainly one 00:22:31.630 --> 00:22:34.890 thing that really bothers me. And also just... 00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:37.759 you know, as you mentioned, not being able to 00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:39.740 say certain things or being strung up for saying, 00:22:39.859 --> 00:22:42.819 I really do believe in freedom of speech. We 00:22:42.819 --> 00:22:44.960 really should be able to say what we believe. 00:22:45.059 --> 00:22:47.839 We should be able to ask questions. We should 00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:49.619 be able to campaign on things. We should be able 00:22:49.619 --> 00:22:55.059 to disagree. And during that time, I really feel 00:22:55.059 --> 00:22:57.680 that if you said the wrong thing, you were kind 00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:01.900 of ostracized. And that's a problem to me because 00:23:01.900 --> 00:23:05.670 that's an authoritarian. And my worry is that 00:23:05.670 --> 00:23:11.269 the pandemic period enabled sort of a shift towards 00:23:11.269 --> 00:23:14.529 authoritarianism, you know, but based on things 00:23:14.529 --> 00:23:17.109 being in our best interest, safety, you know, 00:23:17.109 --> 00:23:20.910 keeping safe. That worries me because, you know, 00:23:20.930 --> 00:23:24.710 when things die down, they don't repeal those 00:23:24.710 --> 00:23:27.890 sort of changes. They keep them in play for whatever 00:23:27.890 --> 00:23:29.089 the next thing is, because they're actually, 00:23:29.170 --> 00:23:34.269 you know, useful to people in power. so i yeah 00:23:34.269 --> 00:23:38.210 i just think that there should be a way of looking 00:23:38.210 --> 00:23:42.170 back on it and and really having some you know 00:23:42.170 --> 00:23:44.569 way of saying that was wrong that was right because 00:23:44.569 --> 00:23:46.710 right now we look at what's going on now i mean 00:23:46.710 --> 00:23:48.950 the vaccines half the vaccines are off the market 00:23:48.950 --> 00:23:52.630 you know who would know if i'm not saying good 00:23:52.630 --> 00:23:54.750 or bad i don't know if they're even a good thing 00:23:54.750 --> 00:23:57.470 i just don't know but if we had some sort of 00:23:57.470 --> 00:24:01.720 uh you know really in -depth um you know truth 00:24:01.720 --> 00:24:05.819 and reconciliation commission around it um maybe 00:24:05.819 --> 00:24:08.079 we could and maybe we would be a little bit wiser 00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:11.859 um i guess the question is you know for some 00:24:11.859 --> 00:24:14.759 people it was a very lucrative time so you know 00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:17.839 there's powers at play yeah i mean for people 00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:19.799 that you know one way or the other the bottom 00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:24.960 line is america is 70 obese or overweight so 00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:27.740 if it was about health it was about benefiting 00:24:27.740 --> 00:24:30.920 the people we would have seen initiatives during 00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:34.299 COVID that would change that, you know, bolstering 00:24:34.299 --> 00:24:36.720 local farmers to create organic food, putting 00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:38.880 real food back in our schools, bolstering PE 00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:41.640 programs, pedestrianizing downtowns, et cetera, 00:24:41.740 --> 00:24:44.460 et cetera. None of that happened. So this is 00:24:44.460 --> 00:24:46.420 the thing, you know, and even like, you know, 00:24:46.420 --> 00:24:48.059 I've had people on here that have been in ICUs 00:24:48.059 --> 00:24:50.119 full of people dying of COVID. I've had first 00:24:50.119 --> 00:24:52.759 responders in LA talking about, you know, just 00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:54.900 slinging bodies left, right, and center. But 00:24:54.900 --> 00:24:57.019 then I've also had Tom Beaver from BeaverFit 00:24:57.019 --> 00:25:00.299 who set up one of the, makeshift morgues in london 00:25:00.299 --> 00:25:03.180 that never even got touched it was they took 00:25:03.180 --> 00:25:05.380 it down again it was never even used you know 00:25:05.380 --> 00:25:07.339 so and people that were pulled in to respond 00:25:07.339 --> 00:25:09.960 that had to go looking for covid patients because 00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:13.019 their their ward was empty so it's just you know 00:25:13.019 --> 00:25:15.460 of course there were hot spots but what's the 00:25:15.460 --> 00:25:18.380 underlying issue of those people and if it wasn't 00:25:18.380 --> 00:25:20.299 truly covid that killed them well then great 00:25:20.299 --> 00:25:22.180 there's an opportunity to find out well what 00:25:22.180 --> 00:25:23.759 were these underlying conditions that people 00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:26.940 were dying from but if you if it's you know vaccines 00:25:26.940 --> 00:25:28.960 and masks and then that's it no conversation 00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:32.039 then you never cared about the people it wasn't 00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:35.200 about the nation's health at all well exactly 00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:38.400 and i think it speaks to an even bigger question 00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:41.000 is what are our what are our goals as a society 00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:43.339 you know and especially when you look at things 00:25:43.339 --> 00:25:45.319 like big pharma what's the goals is the goals 00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:47.640 to make money or is the goal which necessitates 00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:50.779 people being ill or is the goal to give people 00:25:50.779 --> 00:25:54.440 better lives which would be much better if focused 00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:57.640 on looking at being preemptive, like healthy 00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:01.900 lifestyles. If we look at the type of food that's 00:26:01.900 --> 00:26:05.960 being promoted, the big food, if you look at 00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:08.339 what's on the shelves at the moment, it's astounding. 00:26:08.380 --> 00:26:10.700 I'm not just saying in South Africa or in the 00:26:10.700 --> 00:26:15.079 UK or the US. Most places, there are aisles and 00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:18.819 aisles of just horrendous food that doesn't really 00:26:18.819 --> 00:26:22.750 do you any justice in the long run. That type 00:26:22.750 --> 00:26:25.430 of stuff could really change. I mean, we could 00:26:25.430 --> 00:26:29.690 transform. I mean, gyms and exercise and sunlight 00:26:29.690 --> 00:26:32.029 and all these things that we're now finding out 00:26:32.029 --> 00:26:35.109 are, you know, what we've known for a while. 00:26:35.170 --> 00:26:37.349 But if you combine all these things together, 00:26:37.589 --> 00:26:42.309 there'd be such less need to rely on popping 00:26:42.309 --> 00:26:44.750 pills, you know, basically. So I think that the 00:26:44.750 --> 00:26:49.329 response to COVID was enlightening in many ways 00:26:49.329 --> 00:26:52.019 because I think it points towards... a societal 00:26:52.019 --> 00:26:57.140 problem with these big corporations. Yeah. I 00:26:57.140 --> 00:26:58.900 think what we're seeing here in America now as 00:26:58.900 --> 00:27:01.480 well, it's funny, as you get, you know, further 00:27:01.480 --> 00:27:04.380 and further towards extremism in each side of 00:27:04.380 --> 00:27:06.900 these parties, it becomes a circle and you realize 00:27:06.900 --> 00:27:08.579 that the left and the right are actually touching. 00:27:12.019 --> 00:27:15.240 It's alarming, especially like I mentioned that 00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:20.029 I sort of sit on the left. In the last few years, 00:27:20.049 --> 00:27:22.609 I've actually found myself thinking, wow, do 00:27:22.609 --> 00:27:25.289 I agree with this person? Like, I really like 00:27:25.289 --> 00:27:26.930 this person now. And that person would be sort 00:27:26.930 --> 00:27:31.450 of diametrically opposed to me sort of historically, 00:27:31.509 --> 00:27:33.549 politically. And then I'm thinking, yeah, but 00:27:33.549 --> 00:27:35.630 they're kind of right on that. It's a strange 00:27:35.630 --> 00:27:38.829 time. It is indeed. Well, you mentioned HIV and 00:27:38.829 --> 00:27:43.710 AIDS. I had a woman on the show who got HIV through 00:27:43.710 --> 00:27:49.849 a blood transfusion during pregnancy. She, I 00:27:49.849 --> 00:27:52.109 think this was in the 90s if I got that right 00:27:52.109 --> 00:27:54.589 in my mind, I think it was. And she was talking 00:27:54.589 --> 00:27:58.410 about how in the States specifically, camps that 00:27:58.410 --> 00:28:01.210 were set up for children with HIV, I think have 00:28:01.210 --> 00:28:03.609 been closed down now because they're not seeing 00:28:03.609 --> 00:28:05.630 it anymore because the efficacy of these drugs 00:28:05.630 --> 00:28:08.710 these days has really, you know, curbed the HIV 00:28:08.710 --> 00:28:12.789 crisis in America, supposedly. That being said, 00:28:12.910 --> 00:28:15.269 obviously, there's a lot of affluence here. What 00:28:15.269 --> 00:28:18.150 are you seeing as far as HIV and AIDS in South 00:28:18.150 --> 00:28:20.369 Africa, Mozambique and some of the other areas, 00:28:20.430 --> 00:28:23.210 Durban, for example? Yeah, that's interesting. 00:28:23.369 --> 00:28:26.250 I have a theory and I'm not a scientist or a 00:28:26.250 --> 00:28:30.630 doctor. So this is just anecdotal. One thing 00:28:30.630 --> 00:28:34.089 I have known throughout the last sort of 25, 00:28:34.349 --> 00:28:38.910 30 years working with homeless kids in South 00:28:38.910 --> 00:28:42.900 Africa in... the Durban region and the Eastern 00:28:42.900 --> 00:28:47.319 Cape, areas massively affected by HIV AIDS, is 00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:52.460 that whatever HIV is now, it's not the same as 00:28:52.460 --> 00:28:56.680 what it was 20, 25 years ago. So what that would 00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:59.660 tell me, and I've been rebuked when suggesting 00:28:59.660 --> 00:29:06.740 this to scientists, is that viruses tend to weaken. 00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:10.119 That would be my, if I was to look at this without... 00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:12.759 listening to anyone else, I would say, but hang 00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:14.920 on a second, like when we were working with kids 00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:18.640 with HIV, you know, in the 90s, they were dying. 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:22.579 But when kids have HIV now, even if they're not 00:29:22.579 --> 00:29:25.859 on their ARVs, sometimes, they're absolutely 00:29:25.859 --> 00:29:29.140 fine. And a lot of the adults I know with HIV 00:29:29.140 --> 00:29:32.079 don't take ARVs, and they're living their full 00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:33.980 lives. Now, I'm not suggesting for a second, 00:29:34.019 --> 00:29:36.420 don't take ARVs. That's not what I'm saying at 00:29:36.420 --> 00:29:40.839 all. What I am saying is that, again, Anecdotally, 00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:44.220 in other words, from what I can see, and that 00:29:44.220 --> 00:29:48.079 doesn't hold much weight, but just from what 00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:51.940 I can see, it has to be, my own sort of analysis 00:29:51.940 --> 00:29:55.039 of it, it has to be weaker. It can't be the same 00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:58.559 as it was in the 90s. Why isn't everyone dying? 00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:01.480 Because they were in the 90s and kids on the 00:30:01.480 --> 00:30:04.539 streets were dying. We're not getting, and even 00:30:04.539 --> 00:30:07.220 if it wasn't specifically, because obviously 00:30:07.220 --> 00:30:11.700 with HIV, it's not. a specific thing that kills 00:30:11.700 --> 00:30:16.160 someone. It would be another disease like TB 00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:18.160 or something that would, you know, it weakens 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:19.680 their immune system and then they're susceptible 00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:21.480 to something else and that would be what kills 00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:25.819 them. But even that's, you know, not happening 00:30:25.819 --> 00:30:27.700 as much now. Now, there could be a number of 00:30:27.700 --> 00:30:29.559 arguments to say, well, maybe there's better 00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:32.299 treatment on all of these things. You know, maybe 00:30:32.299 --> 00:30:35.420 people who get TB are treated more effectively 00:30:35.420 --> 00:30:39.029 now. I don't know. All I can say is from what 00:30:39.029 --> 00:30:44.710 I see, there isn't the, like adults that I know 00:30:44.710 --> 00:30:50.750 who have had HIV for 20, 25 years are living 00:30:50.750 --> 00:30:53.609 their full lives. Some using ARVs, some not using 00:30:53.609 --> 00:30:56.440 ARVs. It's just an observation. Yeah, I mean, 00:30:56.460 --> 00:30:58.220 if you look at go back to COVID, I mean, that 00:30:58.220 --> 00:31:00.740 got weaker and weaker with each variant. So I 00:31:00.740 --> 00:31:03.680 mean, that's if both of those things are true, 00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:05.980 then that's incredible news. Because I remember, 00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:08.019 you know, I've been terrified in the 80s when 00:31:08.019 --> 00:31:10.500 it first blew up in England. And I was a junior 00:31:10.500 --> 00:31:12.599 school boy then thinking I was going to die of 00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:14.519 AIDS, not understanding what it was and how you 00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:16.380 got it. Because I wasn't going to have sex for 00:31:16.380 --> 00:31:20.119 a long time after that. But, you know, then I 00:31:20.119 --> 00:31:24.400 remember on my EMT clinicals. AIDS patients in 00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:26.799 Orlando Regional in the hospital there. And that 00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:28.640 was about one of the last times I had patients, 00:31:28.759 --> 00:31:30.680 you know, as I was a firefighter and a paramedic 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:32.799 there on forward that would tell me they were 00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:36.440 HIV positive, but not those, you know, poor just 00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:39.420 skeletons covered in the, you know, the scabs 00:31:39.420 --> 00:31:42.140 that we saw. Back then. So it's interesting, 00:31:42.220 --> 00:31:46.000 even in my entire 14 year career, I never saw 00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:49.619 end stage AIDS patients. But, you know, I kind 00:31:49.619 --> 00:31:51.660 of caught the tail end when I was just entering 00:31:51.660 --> 00:31:54.160 that profession. So even, you know, I'm sure 00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:57.539 it's more prevalent in some areas. But when I 00:31:57.539 --> 00:32:00.160 reflect back on my career in the US specifically, 00:32:00.420 --> 00:32:03.039 which is West Coast and East Coast, I don't really 00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:06.099 remember full blown AIDS patients, which you'd 00:32:06.099 --> 00:32:07.819 think, you know, we would be running on if, you 00:32:07.819 --> 00:32:09.420 know, we're in the emergency medicine setting. 00:32:10.769 --> 00:32:12.849 Well, I certainly remember it in South Africa 00:32:12.849 --> 00:32:15.990 because it was very vivid on the streets and 00:32:15.990 --> 00:32:18.750 some of them were children and it was a harrowing 00:32:18.750 --> 00:32:21.349 time, actually. And, you know, sometimes I think 00:32:21.349 --> 00:32:26.170 you kind of, you move away from an era so quickly, 00:32:26.289 --> 00:32:28.890 sometimes you don't go back and reflect on it. 00:32:28.950 --> 00:32:30.970 And when I do reflect on it, sometimes I think, 00:32:30.990 --> 00:32:34.569 wow, that was an intense period, but it did change. 00:32:35.939 --> 00:32:39.200 And, you know, I don't know why, but it did change. 00:32:39.319 --> 00:32:44.319 And when AIDS or HIV is definitely not a death 00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:46.440 sentence anymore, but it used to be, obviously. 00:32:46.740 --> 00:32:49.400 But I think now, certainly in South Africa, if 00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:52.019 you're diagnosed with HIV, they'll just tell 00:32:52.019 --> 00:32:53.740 you the course of action with which to live your 00:32:53.740 --> 00:32:56.200 life, which is pretty exciting. I mean, that's 00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:58.500 incredible. And like I said, I know people who, 00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:02.490 you know, were HIV positive right in the... the 00:33:02.490 --> 00:33:06.049 sort of like 90s in the middle of it and and 00:33:06.049 --> 00:33:09.829 they're actually still alive you know um and 00:33:09.829 --> 00:33:11.769 that's that's incredible as well because we assumed 00:33:11.769 --> 00:33:13.950 at the time i mean i think most of them when 00:33:13.950 --> 00:33:16.329 when they first were diagnosed they thought that 00:33:16.329 --> 00:33:19.009 life would be short but they're living fairly 00:33:19.009 --> 00:33:22.049 long and full lives which is which is really 00:33:22.049 --> 00:33:25.369 exciting and again just i don't have the scientific 00:33:25.369 --> 00:33:27.529 knowledge on it you know i'm not a scientist 00:33:27.529 --> 00:33:30.430 or a doctor but i just see Sometimes when you 00:33:30.430 --> 00:33:33.809 see things, you know, these people who are struggling 00:33:33.809 --> 00:33:36.369 with these things every day, you know, for years 00:33:36.369 --> 00:33:38.670 and years and years, you just think to yourself, 00:33:38.750 --> 00:33:40.670 well, maybe, you know, maybe it is weakening. 00:33:40.690 --> 00:33:42.990 You have these sort of, you know, you come to 00:33:42.990 --> 00:33:45.430 these conclusions. They might be wrong. Yeah. 00:33:45.569 --> 00:33:47.410 No, it's still optimistic, though, regardless. 00:33:48.230 --> 00:33:50.309 Just I want to kind of go down, you know, towards 00:33:50.309 --> 00:33:52.190 the nonprofit and what the kids are doing now. 00:33:52.269 --> 00:33:54.450 But just before we do, you mentioned Ebola. This 00:33:54.450 --> 00:33:57.190 is interesting because when I was in, I think 00:33:57.190 --> 00:33:58.609 it was Orange County. So this would have been 00:33:58.609 --> 00:34:02.529 about. 10 15 years ago now there was a pseudo 00:34:02.529 --> 00:34:05.569 outbreak in america and all of a sudden we had 00:34:05.569 --> 00:34:08.489 these you know like class whatever it was has 00:34:08.489 --> 00:34:10.949 match suits you know the bio has suits and you 00:34:10.949 --> 00:34:12.750 know if there was any kind of inkling of any 00:34:12.750 --> 00:34:16.929 sort of uh you know um sequence of symptoms and 00:34:16.929 --> 00:34:19.329 we had to suit up completely never broke it out 00:34:19.329 --> 00:34:21.829 the bag so that was obviously a good thing but 00:34:21.829 --> 00:34:23.989 talk to me about what you witnessed as far as 00:34:23.989 --> 00:34:26.809 the impact of ebola there because From what I 00:34:26.809 --> 00:34:29.190 understand, that was a very opportunistic disease 00:34:29.190 --> 00:34:31.889 as well. And if you have impoverished people, 00:34:32.050 --> 00:34:33.710 for example, that's where it was really taking 00:34:33.710 --> 00:34:39.530 hold. Yeah, I was in Sierra Leone. I forget the 00:34:39.530 --> 00:34:44.489 year. It must have been around 20... perhaps, 00:34:44.769 --> 00:34:48.550 2012 or 2014, somewhere in that region. And I 00:34:48.550 --> 00:34:50.690 was actually looking at potentially setting up 00:34:50.690 --> 00:34:52.710 Surfers Not Street Children in Sierra Leone as 00:34:52.710 --> 00:34:56.369 well. And I'd met a group of kids who surfed 00:34:56.369 --> 00:34:59.449 in a place called Bure down the coast. And I'd 00:34:59.449 --> 00:35:03.670 done a bit of work in the capital looking at 00:35:03.670 --> 00:35:07.809 programs there. And when I was there, it broke 00:35:07.809 --> 00:35:12.630 out in Freetown, the capital. And it was extraordinary, 00:35:12.750 --> 00:35:17.190 actually, because suddenly people weren't shaking 00:35:17.190 --> 00:35:22.150 hands. And it was quite a, there was a panic. 00:35:22.190 --> 00:35:25.670 And I was actually attending some events with 00:35:25.670 --> 00:35:29.809 the high commissioner. No, he was a former South 00:35:29.809 --> 00:35:32.210 African, a British high commissioner to South 00:35:32.210 --> 00:35:34.349 Africa. He was doing some work in Sierra Leone 00:35:34.349 --> 00:35:36.309 at the time. And I was actually traveling with 00:35:36.309 --> 00:35:40.000 him. And people were panicking. And everybody 00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:42.400 started trying to get out of Sierra Leone and 00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:44.820 the borders were going to close. And I managed 00:35:44.820 --> 00:35:47.159 to have a partnership with British Airways and 00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:49.639 they got me on the last BA flight out of Sierra 00:35:49.639 --> 00:35:51.539 Leone, left all my surfboards there, which was 00:35:51.539 --> 00:35:55.840 cool for the locals. But it was, yeah, that one 00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:58.280 was scary because, you know, if you get Ebola, 00:35:58.460 --> 00:36:01.860 your chances of survival are much less than other 00:36:01.860 --> 00:36:06.250 diseases. I mean, that is a really serious. disease 00:36:06.250 --> 00:36:07.969 unless saying that others aren't serious but 00:36:07.969 --> 00:36:12.650 this one is you know it's a terrifying um disease 00:36:12.650 --> 00:36:17.889 so i i got used to that idea of um you know not 00:36:17.889 --> 00:36:20.190 not shaking hands and people were starting to 00:36:20.190 --> 00:36:23.409 wear masks there um not massively because they 00:36:23.409 --> 00:36:26.869 hadn't been sort of mass produced um but uh that's 00:36:26.869 --> 00:36:29.429 why when when covid started i was kind of like 00:36:31.489 --> 00:36:33.989 The statistics don't seem that crazy on this 00:36:33.989 --> 00:36:36.929 one. It was really because I've been there at 00:36:36.929 --> 00:36:39.889 the beginning of the Ebola crisis in Sierra Leone. 00:36:40.070 --> 00:36:42.909 And that was actually closed down after I left. 00:36:42.929 --> 00:36:44.889 It was closed down for over a year, I believe, 00:36:45.090 --> 00:36:49.429 Sierra Leone. I had a guy on the show a long 00:36:49.429 --> 00:36:51.769 time ago now, amazing conversation, Ishmael Bay. 00:36:51.969 --> 00:36:55.389 And he was a child soldier who was caught up 00:36:55.389 --> 00:36:57.570 in the Sierra Leone conflict and his parents 00:36:57.570 --> 00:36:59.269 were murdered and forced to fight. And then he 00:36:59.269 --> 00:37:01.210 was rescued actually by an American Red Cross 00:37:01.210 --> 00:37:04.489 woman in the end. And now he's a UN ambassador 00:37:04.489 --> 00:37:08.070 trying to help other children of the force into 00:37:08.070 --> 00:37:12.489 war. When I reflect on a lot of places in Africa, 00:37:12.550 --> 00:37:15.199 sadly, we only... hear them mention when there 00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:17.699 is some horrendous, you know, intertribal violence 00:37:17.699 --> 00:37:20.199 or, you know, whatever the thing is, what are 00:37:20.199 --> 00:37:22.440 some of the success stories of some of these 00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:25.139 African nations that maybe in the past had this 00:37:25.139 --> 00:37:30.699 very, you know, horrendous history? Yeah, there's 00:37:30.699 --> 00:37:33.500 so many. I mean, obviously, and you know this 00:37:33.500 --> 00:37:36.480 as well, but it's such a large continent and 00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:40.780 there's so many, it's such a wealth of culture. 00:37:41.559 --> 00:37:46.820 and diversity, and there's been just incredible 00:37:46.820 --> 00:37:51.679 minds across the continent, philosophically, 00:37:51.780 --> 00:37:57.320 academically. There's so many good things that 00:37:57.320 --> 00:38:01.039 have happened. I think we often, I think our 00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:04.199 media, certainly our Western media, is pretty 00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:07.059 slanted, and Africa comes up if there's a disaster. 00:38:08.679 --> 00:38:11.619 And that's pretty bad, really, because, you know, 00:38:11.619 --> 00:38:16.119 incredible things happen on a daily and Africa 00:38:16.119 --> 00:38:19.800 leads the way in certain in many things. And 00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:23.500 the philosophies that are prevalent across the 00:38:23.500 --> 00:38:26.239 continent have so much that we can learn from 00:38:26.239 --> 00:38:30.519 in Western society. There's also, I think, just 00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:33.380 a communal and I can't speak for the whole continent. 00:38:33.460 --> 00:38:35.880 Obviously, it's a massive continent. But in the 00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:39.110 African. communities that I've been exposed to, 00:38:39.190 --> 00:38:43.550 the idea of community living can be really beautiful. 00:38:43.750 --> 00:38:46.949 And there are areas where it isn't because things 00:38:46.949 --> 00:38:48.949 have gone wrong. The socioeconomic scenarios 00:38:48.949 --> 00:38:51.449 have impacted to a degree where those things 00:38:51.449 --> 00:38:54.730 are destroyed. But in many areas, there's still 00:38:54.730 --> 00:38:58.010 just beautiful things happening within a communal 00:38:58.010 --> 00:39:03.690 context, which sees much more of a bond than 00:39:03.690 --> 00:39:07.309 just the nuclear family. And I mean, just take, 00:39:07.409 --> 00:39:10.230 for example, the South African philosophy of 00:39:10.230 --> 00:39:13.250 Ubuntu, which Desmond Tutu was such a champion 00:39:13.250 --> 00:39:16.190 for, but really is across the entire, all of 00:39:16.190 --> 00:39:19.809 the tribes of South Africa. And that's the idea 00:39:19.809 --> 00:39:24.349 that a person is a person through their relationship 00:39:24.349 --> 00:39:26.869 to other people. So it's not, I think, therefore 00:39:26.869 --> 00:39:30.969 I am. It's I am because I believe, I participate, 00:39:31.369 --> 00:39:33.880 I share. And I'm actually sort of quoting there 00:39:33.880 --> 00:39:37.099 from one of Desmond Tutu's books. But that's 00:39:37.099 --> 00:39:40.340 a very good sort of, he had a very good understanding 00:39:40.340 --> 00:39:42.739 of what Ubuntu is. And I think those types of 00:39:42.739 --> 00:39:47.340 things are really useful philosophies and do 00:39:47.340 --> 00:39:50.920 get practiced. And also there's all sorts of 00:39:50.920 --> 00:39:54.119 inventions and ideas that come out of Africa. 00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:58.460 And actually, if Africa's given the chance, Africa 00:39:58.460 --> 00:40:01.219 can usually come up with solutions for African 00:40:01.219 --> 00:40:03.679 problems as well. Often the solutions that come 00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:06.280 externally aren't necessarily there to really 00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:12.619 benefit Africa. External interests will be pandered 00:40:12.619 --> 00:40:17.039 to. I think you could certainly have a wealth 00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:21.519 of positive news coming out of Africa if the 00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:27.119 media was interested in that. There's a Desmond 00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:30.610 Tutu quote I use all the time. initially to underline 00:40:30.610 --> 00:40:32.710 what's going on in the first responder professions 00:40:32.710 --> 00:40:34.849 here. But again, we're talking about first world 00:40:34.849 --> 00:40:38.409 problems still, but it says, he says, we spend 00:40:38.409 --> 00:40:40.670 so much time pulling people out of the river. 00:40:40.690 --> 00:40:43.090 We forget to go upstream to find out why they're 00:40:43.090 --> 00:40:45.809 falling in, in the first place. And I love that. 00:40:46.210 --> 00:40:48.530 And what that makes me think of, if we're talking 00:40:48.530 --> 00:40:50.489 about exactly, you know, what you're underlining 00:40:50.489 --> 00:40:53.769 at the moment, when I heard the backstory of 00:40:53.769 --> 00:40:57.250 Somalia and the kind of birth of the piracy. 00:40:57.800 --> 00:41:00.940 it came from overfishing from other nations on 00:41:00.940 --> 00:41:03.920 their on their water supposedly so now you have 00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:05.440 these fishermen that were feeding their families 00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:08.079 that were making money now aren't and you know 00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:12.199 i think none of us would be immune from you know 00:41:12.199 --> 00:41:15.000 stealing and maybe even you know mugging if it 00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:18.320 meant keeping our family alive so you know knowing 00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:21.199 the colonization of you know the background of 00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:23.780 a lot of these african nations this violence 00:41:23.780 --> 00:41:27.599 this this um The negative press that we see, 00:41:27.739 --> 00:41:30.599 how much of that is actually really the root 00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:33.860 cause because of nations from other countries 00:41:33.860 --> 00:41:36.840 and their impact on that country? Well, dare 00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:40.619 I say it, that is exactly the same with the sentiment 00:41:40.619 --> 00:41:46.320 around migrants. I mean, whether it's the UK, 00:41:46.579 --> 00:41:52.119 the US, many countries where there's a massive... 00:41:52.349 --> 00:41:55.510 I mean, in the UK, it's just this crazy, whipped 00:41:55.510 --> 00:41:57.690 up frenzy about migrants. I mean, basically, 00:41:57.710 --> 00:42:00.030 it's really politicians that are doing this to 00:42:00.030 --> 00:42:04.429 have a rally cry. But, you know, and a lot of 00:42:04.429 --> 00:42:06.989 people already know this, but if our countries 00:42:06.989 --> 00:42:10.510 treated their countries better, it wouldn't be 00:42:10.510 --> 00:42:13.789 such a flow of migrants. You know, they really 00:42:13.789 --> 00:42:19.199 wouldn't. And this is the crazy thing. We can 00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:21.639 say nothing about the relationship that our countries 00:42:21.639 --> 00:42:24.820 have with these countries, but God forbid that 00:42:24.820 --> 00:42:27.840 life becomes terrible or even just unpleasant 00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:29.940 there enough to want to go somewhere else. And 00:42:29.940 --> 00:42:31.780 then suddenly they're in our country. Hang on 00:42:31.780 --> 00:42:33.559 a second. No, we don't want them. It's changing 00:42:33.559 --> 00:42:37.360 our, you know. So, yeah, I think it's got to 00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:41.679 be some self introspection. Is that the word? 00:42:41.780 --> 00:42:45.079 Yeah. Some reflection. I've made that comment 00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:47.519 many times because it's just so. so apparent 00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:49.500 when you're talking about drug prohibition. That 00:42:49.500 --> 00:42:52.380 was started in America, Harry Anslinger in the 00:42:52.380 --> 00:42:55.440 1930s, the whole reefer madness thing. And then 00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:57.760 obviously it's now an 80 -plus year longitudinal 00:42:57.760 --> 00:43:01.320 study of how not to treat addiction, basically. 00:43:01.780 --> 00:43:05.079 But when you put addicts into the hands of the 00:43:05.079 --> 00:43:07.699 underworld, you create gangs. You created the 00:43:07.699 --> 00:43:10.119 Crips and the Bloods to the level that they became. 00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:13.059 You created the Mexican cartels, the Colombians, 00:43:13.059 --> 00:43:15.780 all these different things that then destroyed 00:43:15.780 --> 00:43:17.900 their own countries. And then people are all 00:43:17.900 --> 00:43:20.039 up in arms in America about the Mexicans coming 00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:22.699 over the border. Well, it was our policies that 00:43:22.699 --> 00:43:24.579 created a lot of the issues that they have in 00:43:24.579 --> 00:43:26.780 their country in the first place. So where is 00:43:26.780 --> 00:43:29.579 the conversation of, you know, if you really 00:43:29.579 --> 00:43:31.639 love where you live, you're not going to feel 00:43:31.639 --> 00:43:33.840 the need to flee. You might want to integrate 00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:37.059 and cross borders and share, you know, occupations 00:43:37.059 --> 00:43:39.280 and skills and knowledge. And, you know, because, 00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:42.039 again, borders are made up by man as well. But 00:43:42.039 --> 00:43:44.860 the ownership of what we have done to create 00:43:44.860 --> 00:43:46.860 these migrants, I think Haiti is another good 00:43:46.860 --> 00:43:49.480 example. It's on my doorstep here in Florida. 00:43:50.010 --> 00:43:52.889 And we're sending all these weapons to Israel 00:43:52.889 --> 00:43:56.989 at the moment to kill children in Gaza. But then 00:43:56.989 --> 00:43:59.170 we're turning a blind eye to helping an island 00:43:59.170 --> 00:44:01.190 that's literally at our doorstep here in Florida 00:44:01.190 --> 00:44:04.710 that is tearing itself apart. It makes no sense 00:44:04.710 --> 00:44:06.650 to me. Dominican Republic is the other side, 00:44:06.769 --> 00:44:11.269 living just beautifully and is a huge tourist 00:44:11.269 --> 00:44:13.570 destination. The other side of that tiny island, 00:44:13.650 --> 00:44:14.929 you're telling me that the U .S. couldn't have 00:44:14.929 --> 00:44:17.820 stabilized that? decades ago and if they were 00:44:17.820 --> 00:44:20.139 happy and employed how many people would be going 00:44:20.139 --> 00:44:23.000 on flotillas trying to get to the florida coast 00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:27.539 probably not very many yeah it's so true i mean 00:44:27.539 --> 00:44:30.840 we we create these problems and and then we really 00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:33.579 loathe the people who run from the problems but 00:44:33.579 --> 00:44:38.599 i also think that um that politicians are are 00:44:38.599 --> 00:44:41.199 really awful in how they use these they don't 00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:43.260 really have any rally cry because some politicians 00:44:43.260 --> 00:44:45.769 they just They don't do anything. So they just 00:44:45.769 --> 00:44:49.030 want to be in power. And so the cheapest rally 00:44:49.030 --> 00:44:52.969 cry is to tell them that all your problems are 00:44:52.969 --> 00:44:57.130 not because of sort of the top end taking stuff. 00:44:57.250 --> 00:44:58.809 That's not your problem. The problem is because 00:44:58.809 --> 00:45:00.809 these migrants are coming in and taking your 00:45:00.809 --> 00:45:02.769 jobs. The migrants are the problem. It's such 00:45:02.769 --> 00:45:06.429 an easy rally cry. And they use it unashamedly. 00:45:06.570 --> 00:45:08.590 They use this rally cry of how they're going 00:45:08.590 --> 00:45:10.190 to get rid of the migrants. Everyone say, yeah, 00:45:10.250 --> 00:45:12.389 get rid of the migrants. It's taking our jobs. 00:45:12.969 --> 00:45:14.869 They're not taking your jobs. You don't even 00:45:14.869 --> 00:45:18.030 want to do those jobs. I can certainly speak 00:45:18.030 --> 00:45:21.469 for the UK. The jobs that migrants have been 00:45:21.469 --> 00:45:23.610 doing in the past are jobs that the British people 00:45:23.610 --> 00:45:27.369 didn't really want to do. I mean, I'm not an 00:45:27.369 --> 00:45:31.489 expert on this, but generally the migrants weren't 00:45:31.489 --> 00:45:34.469 taking their jobs. And if you go around England 00:45:34.469 --> 00:45:39.190 today, if you were to read social media, you 00:45:39.190 --> 00:45:40.829 would think that it looked like somewhere else 00:45:40.829 --> 00:45:43.659 in the world. It really doesn't. That's just 00:45:43.659 --> 00:45:46.699 not true. And so this idea, this migrant thing 00:45:46.699 --> 00:45:50.139 is just like this hot potato that gets people 00:45:50.139 --> 00:45:54.360 riled up and then people have political success 00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:57.840 with it. It's terrible, really. Yeah, it's the 00:45:57.840 --> 00:45:59.960 cup game. You're too busy looking for the ball 00:45:59.960 --> 00:46:01.840 under the cup to realize that the person moving 00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:04.320 the cups has taken your money. Yeah, exactly. 00:46:07.469 --> 00:46:10.130 All right. Well, just seeing as I can open that 00:46:10.130 --> 00:46:12.730 door just briefly, and then we'll go to the nonprofit. 00:46:13.510 --> 00:46:17.190 I was so proud, and that sounds patronizing because 00:46:17.190 --> 00:46:20.329 who the hell am I, but to see the courage of 00:46:20.329 --> 00:46:22.849 the South African people talking about the atrocities 00:46:22.849 --> 00:46:25.309 in Gaza early on, the same with the Irish people, 00:46:25.570 --> 00:46:28.110 two nations that understand oppression, as do 00:46:28.110 --> 00:46:31.329 many. I mean, I've always pointed this out. The 00:46:31.329 --> 00:46:34.230 British people were at some of their highest 00:46:34.230 --> 00:46:36.550 levels of poverty during slavery, for example. 00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:39.820 So the average Brit did not benefit from all 00:46:39.820 --> 00:46:42.039 these atrocities around the world either. So 00:46:42.039 --> 00:46:45.599 they are arguably not complicit to most of these. 00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:49.280 But what I was so disappointed about my people, 00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:50.980 the British, because when we were young, and 00:46:50.980 --> 00:46:53.480 I talk about this all the time, we had Blue Peter 00:46:53.480 --> 00:46:55.599 and Comic Relief and Live Aid, and we were a 00:46:55.599 --> 00:46:58.559 courageous, altruistic nation. And what was going 00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:00.920 on there was just wrong. And my grandparents 00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:04.059 fought in World War II against the same kind 00:47:04.059 --> 00:47:05.880 of atrocities. And I think they'd be nauseated 00:47:05.880 --> 00:47:08.809 to see the... the cowardice and the lack of backbone 00:47:08.809 --> 00:47:12.309 to stand up regardless of you know the the religion 00:47:12.309 --> 00:47:14.650 or the flag or whatever when something is wrong 00:47:14.650 --> 00:47:17.969 something is wrong so what were you seeing as 00:47:17.969 --> 00:47:21.210 far as your nation standing up against that early 00:47:21.210 --> 00:47:23.349 because it was it was beautiful to see you know 00:47:23.349 --> 00:47:28.170 it in in a sea of of such denial and and uh apathy 00:47:28.170 --> 00:47:32.269 from the rest of the world yeah so you know i 00:47:32.699 --> 00:47:34.800 I've been in South Africa most of my life. I'm 00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:37.380 British originally, but South Africa is home 00:47:37.380 --> 00:47:41.920 and South Africa is in my blood. My wife is South 00:47:41.920 --> 00:47:45.280 African. My kids are dual nationality. And look, 00:47:45.380 --> 00:47:47.420 one thing I can tell you about South Africans 00:47:47.420 --> 00:47:51.780 is they recognize apartheid. They lived through 00:47:51.780 --> 00:47:54.420 it. They saw it. They know it. They know the 00:47:54.420 --> 00:47:56.579 implications. And when they see it elsewhere, 00:47:56.699 --> 00:48:00.920 they recognize it. And that is why. South Africa 00:48:00.920 --> 00:48:03.719 has been so vocal. How could you not speak out 00:48:03.719 --> 00:48:06.780 as a nation when you see apartheid elsewhere 00:48:06.780 --> 00:48:11.059 if you had apartheid, if you knew apartheid? 00:48:11.099 --> 00:48:16.019 So on one level, I think it's absolutely fantastic 00:48:16.019 --> 00:48:18.860 that they spoke out. On the other level, I'm 00:48:18.860 --> 00:48:22.119 actually not surprised because it's inbuilt in 00:48:22.119 --> 00:48:25.539 there in South Africa's DNA to know the pain. 00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:29.360 of apartheid and also the struggles. I mean, 00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:31.780 South Africa struggles with things today. I mean, 00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:36.219 anyone in South Africa would admit that straight 00:48:36.219 --> 00:48:38.599 up, that there's many, many problems that South 00:48:38.599 --> 00:48:44.440 Africa grapples with. But they know their history 00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:49.360 and they know how insidious apartheid was and 00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:54.780 how wrong and how destructive. of a path it is. 00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:58.920 And so speaking up on behalf of the Palestinians 00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:01.940 would be the natural thing to do for a South 00:49:01.940 --> 00:49:05.500 African. Where I struggle is I just don't understand 00:49:05.500 --> 00:49:08.880 where that loss is of right and wrong. And there's 00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:12.219 a lot of people that claim to be from a certain 00:49:12.219 --> 00:49:15.739 religious doctrine. And I really haven't come 00:49:15.739 --> 00:49:18.960 across any that preach hate. And, you know, murder 00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:21.599 and enslavement, all these pretty sure that Christianity, 00:49:21.639 --> 00:49:24.179 Buddhism, you know, et cetera, et cetera. The 00:49:24.179 --> 00:49:26.480 reason why they've lasted all this time is because 00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:28.820 they talk about community and love and compassion 00:49:28.820 --> 00:49:33.199 and all these other areas. And, you know, a good 00:49:33.199 --> 00:49:36.800 example is when I was young, this is kind of 00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:39.420 funny. I went to the cinema in one of the towns 00:49:39.420 --> 00:49:41.539 where I grew up and there were two screens back 00:49:41.539 --> 00:49:43.639 then. That was it in England. And I went to see 00:49:43.639 --> 00:49:45.989 Robocop. And when I was young, I looked even 00:49:45.989 --> 00:49:48.869 younger and I think I was about 12. And so, you 00:49:48.869 --> 00:49:50.130 know, I went with an adult and they were like, 00:49:50.190 --> 00:49:51.590 yeah, no, that kid's not going to watch your 00:49:51.590 --> 00:49:53.849 Robocop. And the other screen was Cry Freedom, 00:49:54.030 --> 00:49:57.130 Steve Biko's story. So I ended up going to watch 00:49:57.130 --> 00:50:01.510 that. And, you know, does that story say that 00:50:01.510 --> 00:50:03.510 all white people in South Africa are evil and 00:50:03.510 --> 00:50:05.889 all black people are angels? No. But of that 00:50:05.889 --> 00:50:08.269 particular story and, you know, all the deaths 00:50:08.269 --> 00:50:11.010 in the prisons back then and, you know, the. 00:50:11.900 --> 00:50:14.280 the you know invading all the the shanty towns 00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:16.780 all those things i mean you just saw what was 00:50:16.780 --> 00:50:19.320 wrong you know and the british have a huge part 00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:21.920 in in that you know nightmare the dutch have 00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:24.260 a huge part in that nightmare but you can still 00:50:24.260 --> 00:50:27.599 stay at that moment this is wrong you know was 00:50:27.599 --> 00:50:29.800 there this back and forth between the palestinians 00:50:29.800 --> 00:50:32.460 and israelis for the longest time yes does that 00:50:32.460 --> 00:50:35.099 make it right no you can you know you're not 00:50:35.099 --> 00:50:37.539 saying that one group is an entire group of angels 00:50:37.539 --> 00:50:40.780 and one is is the devil But in this instant, 00:50:40.880 --> 00:50:43.360 this is wrong. The innocents killed on October 00:50:43.360 --> 00:50:46.420 7th, that was wrong. As a human being, you have 00:50:46.420 --> 00:50:50.059 to separate yourself from religion, from nationality, 00:50:50.059 --> 00:50:52.840 and just take off the glasses and go, that is 00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:55.219 wrong. And that's the voice that was so absent 00:50:55.219 --> 00:51:00.739 in a supposed faith -based nation that you didn't 00:51:00.739 --> 00:51:03.059 even have the courage to do exactly what Jesus 00:51:03.059 --> 00:51:05.300 or Buddha or some of these other people that 00:51:05.300 --> 00:51:08.360 you believe in would be flipping tables about. 00:51:10.139 --> 00:51:13.840 Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. I think 00:51:13.840 --> 00:51:17.699 this is so... What's shocking about Gaza is how 00:51:17.699 --> 00:51:21.619 obvious it is. I mean, it doesn't matter how 00:51:21.619 --> 00:51:25.179 many times you hear a refute. The images you 00:51:25.179 --> 00:51:29.159 see, they're not lying. I mean, we all know. 00:51:29.300 --> 00:51:31.500 We all know what's happening. We all know the 00:51:31.500 --> 00:51:33.619 numbers. We all know that the numbers are not 00:51:33.619 --> 00:51:37.320 made up. I think that even someone who's... maybe 00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:39.760 philosophically on the other side and is saying 00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:43.199 you know it is a lie they may maybe they convince 00:51:43.199 --> 00:51:46.559 themselves but deep down they have to know and 00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:50.300 so that's what i find astounding is how how in 00:51:50.300 --> 00:51:55.579 plain sight it is and also is there any other 00:51:55.579 --> 00:51:58.480 human beings on earth that this could happen 00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:03.019 to and so little would be done about it i mean 00:52:03.019 --> 00:52:06.599 palestinians i mean to be born a palestinian 00:52:07.070 --> 00:52:12.670 in Palestine in this era, wow, that's really 00:52:12.670 --> 00:52:15.590 something because you're not really afforded 00:52:15.590 --> 00:52:19.150 a place at the table of humanity. And that's 00:52:19.150 --> 00:52:23.889 what I find shocking. And, you know, the money 00:52:23.889 --> 00:52:31.050 that goes into campaigns to tear down any natural 00:52:31.050 --> 00:52:34.670 response, empathy towards the suffering of Palestinians. 00:52:35.619 --> 00:52:38.420 is utterly incredible. I think, you know, when 00:52:38.420 --> 00:52:44.179 I look at this part of my lifetime, we can only 00:52:44.179 --> 00:52:47.659 speak for how we view things ourselves individually. 00:52:47.800 --> 00:52:51.219 I see through the lens of my own eyes. What I 00:52:51.219 --> 00:52:55.320 see, having lived through this COVID period and 00:52:55.320 --> 00:53:02.059 this war on Gaza, the genocide, is too extraordinary. 00:53:03.159 --> 00:53:05.300 moments in history for very different reasons 00:53:05.300 --> 00:53:09.960 but just absolutely extraordinary that as I will 00:53:09.960 --> 00:53:13.300 hopefully be sitting in my 80s or 90s reflecting 00:53:13.300 --> 00:53:17.219 on these and other periods of my life I will 00:53:17.219 --> 00:53:19.800 look back on it probably shaking my head how 00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:23.619 on earth did those things happen and obviously 00:53:23.619 --> 00:53:28.199 the the the Gaza stuff is just you know when 00:53:29.869 --> 00:53:33.530 How did it even continue for a week or two afterwards, 00:53:33.650 --> 00:53:36.170 after October the 7th? How did it, you know, 00:53:36.170 --> 00:53:38.269 to still be going now and for the goalposts to 00:53:38.269 --> 00:53:42.050 be changing the whole time? You know, it's actually 00:53:42.050 --> 00:53:45.409 unbelievable. And for people to come on and for 00:53:45.409 --> 00:53:48.730 government ministers and others to be sort of 00:53:48.730 --> 00:53:52.010 defending it, that's just extraordinary. It's 00:53:52.010 --> 00:53:57.190 just, it's hard to really fathom. Well, we're 00:53:57.190 --> 00:54:01.489 arming them. Yeah. My nation, America, is literally 00:54:01.489 --> 00:54:05.090 paying for the weapons of mass destruction. The 00:54:05.090 --> 00:54:07.389 same kind of thing that we were sending people 00:54:07.389 --> 00:54:10.389 into Iraq to fight, we're sending to Israel for 00:54:10.389 --> 00:54:12.690 this. And the example I've made, and again, this 00:54:12.690 --> 00:54:15.329 will resonate to when we were young, the troubles 00:54:15.329 --> 00:54:18.260 in Northern Ireland. They were bombing the mainland. 00:54:18.539 --> 00:54:21.480 Was there a backstory to that? Absolutely. Again, 00:54:21.699 --> 00:54:24.619 were the British doing some horrific things prior 00:54:24.619 --> 00:54:27.199 to that to the Irish? Absolutely. Again, were 00:54:27.199 --> 00:54:29.460 all Irish angels and all British evil? Also, 00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:33.380 no. But imagine if they bombed one of the high 00:54:33.380 --> 00:54:34.860 streets that they used to when we were young, 00:54:34.920 --> 00:54:38.159 and our response, the British response, was to 00:54:38.159 --> 00:54:41.760 go in and level the entire city of Belfast, men, 00:54:41.900 --> 00:54:43.940 women, children, doctors, nurses, paramedics, 00:54:43.940 --> 00:54:46.639 firefighters, the lot. and then bulldoze the 00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:50.179 entire city and then starve whoever's left to 00:54:50.179 --> 00:54:52.719 death. Would the world turn their head to the 00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:56.840 Irish? I highly doubt it. They're no different 00:54:56.840 --> 00:55:00.860 than the Palestinians. Yeah. Yeah. It's just 00:55:00.860 --> 00:55:04.679 an extraordinary moment. And I think I've always, 00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:07.980 almost every day that goes on, you can't imagine 00:55:07.980 --> 00:55:11.039 it could get any worse. And the most disappointing 00:55:11.039 --> 00:55:13.800 is just how much worse it does get. You know, 00:55:13.820 --> 00:55:16.320 that's just. You know, I go back, I think back 00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:19.500 to sort of in the early weeks of what was happening 00:55:19.500 --> 00:55:22.179 in Gaza. You're like, you know, you think to 00:55:22.179 --> 00:55:24.880 yourself, well, man, this response is so extreme. 00:55:25.320 --> 00:55:28.159 You know, I think they've even overdone it for 00:55:28.159 --> 00:55:30.860 their own, you know, it's going to expose what 00:55:30.860 --> 00:55:33.179 they're doing. And yet we sit here a couple of 00:55:33.179 --> 00:55:35.039 years later and it didn't at all. It just got 00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:37.139 worse and worse and worse. And I think that's 00:55:37.139 --> 00:55:42.059 the scariest thing. Absolutely. Well, shifting 00:55:42.059 --> 00:55:45.469 then to... what we can do, like people listening 00:55:45.469 --> 00:55:47.170 now, obviously what you're doing with your own 00:55:47.170 --> 00:55:49.329 hands, you know, in South Africa and in Mozambique, 00:55:49.409 --> 00:55:52.590 you come out of, you know, the pandemic, talk 00:55:52.590 --> 00:55:55.190 to me about that upswing. And then let's start 00:55:55.190 --> 00:55:57.150 kind of diving into some of the incredible kids 00:55:57.150 --> 00:55:58.849 that you've got on the competition circuit now. 00:56:00.010 --> 00:56:02.909 Yeah. So we've got, so Surfers Not Street Children 00:56:02.909 --> 00:56:06.670 is an organization that empowers kids that are 00:56:06.670 --> 00:56:09.610 either living on the streets or living in the 00:56:09.610 --> 00:56:12.769 downtown area, an area we call the point in Durban. 00:56:13.320 --> 00:56:17.460 um and this area is one where street life is 00:56:17.460 --> 00:56:21.039 ever present so you know you can be on the streets 00:56:21.039 --> 00:56:22.960 or you can be living in homeless shelters or 00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:25.900 even living in an apartment usually an overcrowded 00:56:25.900 --> 00:56:28.039 apartment and the minute you walk out your door 00:56:28.039 --> 00:56:31.539 it's street life and so if you don't have some 00:56:31.539 --> 00:56:34.480 sort of mentorship through that the the streets 00:56:34.480 --> 00:56:38.119 will likely get hold of you in one way or another 00:56:38.119 --> 00:56:39.940 whether it's drugs whether it's prostitution 00:56:39.940 --> 00:56:43.150 whether it's gangs most likely gangs and whatever 00:56:43.150 --> 00:56:46.710 that is it's really really difficult for kids 00:56:46.710 --> 00:56:51.010 to grow up without being affected by street life 00:56:51.010 --> 00:56:54.190 so what we run is a program based around surfing 00:56:54.190 --> 00:56:58.230 that fuses surfing with mentorship and care and 00:56:58.230 --> 00:57:01.309 basically provides everything from a diversion 00:57:01.309 --> 00:57:05.349 from street life to a rescue so some kids who 00:57:05.349 --> 00:57:07.289 are completely caught up in street life whether 00:57:07.289 --> 00:57:10.530 they're street children or in gangs or prostitution 00:57:10.530 --> 00:57:13.579 or whatever it is where it's a rescue program 00:57:13.579 --> 00:57:17.019 for those kids but at the same time kids who 00:57:17.019 --> 00:57:19.260 aren't involved at all that could potentially 00:57:19.260 --> 00:57:21.440 be involved it's a diversion program and actually 00:57:21.440 --> 00:57:24.400 as we reduce the number of kids who need to be 00:57:24.400 --> 00:57:27.099 rescued the most important thing becomes ensuring 00:57:27.099 --> 00:57:29.739 that every one of the children has access to 00:57:29.739 --> 00:57:33.079 diversion so they don't have to become a casualty 00:57:33.079 --> 00:57:35.699 who needs rescue so that's really where we're 00:57:35.699 --> 00:57:39.079 at at the moment so we run programs from two 00:57:39.079 --> 00:57:41.860 bases in Durban one right the beach and one a 00:57:41.860 --> 00:57:44.599 few blocks back the beach place we call our surf 00:57:44.599 --> 00:57:47.239 club and that's where the surfing happens every 00:57:47.239 --> 00:57:50.440 day down at the new pier durban's premier surfing 00:57:50.440 --> 00:57:55.500 wave and it's a great great place to to be a 00:57:55.500 --> 00:57:58.420 surfer really it's a fantastic wave it's a good 00:57:58.420 --> 00:58:01.340 community of surfers we're right there at the 00:58:01.340 --> 00:58:03.880 new pier and then four blocks back we have what 00:58:03.880 --> 00:58:06.949 we call the surf house which is our hq where 00:58:06.949 --> 00:58:09.550 most of our programs happen. We've got a high 00:58:09.550 --> 00:58:12.650 -speed sort of computer lab where kids can do 00:58:12.650 --> 00:58:14.949 their homework and get assistance with their 00:58:14.949 --> 00:58:19.130 school studies and play games and have downtime 00:58:19.130 --> 00:58:23.030 and hang out together and just have a home from 00:58:23.030 --> 00:58:25.449 home. And really, this is a way of them spending 00:58:25.449 --> 00:58:29.369 less time in the streets and more time around 00:58:29.369 --> 00:58:35.210 a positive team of people. who inspire them. 00:58:35.369 --> 00:58:38.670 So it's exciting. We have about 130 kids in the 00:58:38.670 --> 00:58:42.869 program at any given time. And, you know, 130 00:58:42.869 --> 00:58:46.570 core kids in the program. And we're open seven 00:58:46.570 --> 00:58:50.070 days a week. We run a nutrition program, health 00:58:50.070 --> 00:58:53.170 programs, back to school program to ensure that 00:58:53.170 --> 00:58:55.650 every child is back in school. And we really 00:58:55.650 --> 00:58:59.750 try and fill the kids' day with school activities, 00:58:59.969 --> 00:59:03.280 with school, with surfing, with mentorship. um 00:59:03.280 --> 00:59:06.400 so that by the time they do go home to their 00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:08.639 areas they're so exhausted they get a bit of 00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:10.400 time with their parents they can catch up and 00:59:10.400 --> 00:59:12.800 then they sleep and then hit repeat the next 00:59:12.800 --> 00:59:15.420 day so it's been really successful over the years 00:59:15.420 --> 00:59:17.780 we don't have a 100 success rate of course we're 00:59:17.780 --> 00:59:21.380 dealing with trauma and addiction and yes it's 00:59:21.380 --> 00:59:24.139 not easy but we've had kids come through the 00:59:24.139 --> 00:59:27.239 program and go on to be all sorts of things from 00:59:27.239 --> 00:59:30.400 lifeguards to working in surf shops working in 00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:35.300 restaurants um uh you know coffee baristas um 00:59:35.300 --> 00:59:39.059 and uh yeah a number of of different professions 00:59:39.059 --> 00:59:42.179 which is exciting to see um over the years and 00:59:42.179 --> 00:59:44.960 some have come back and are assisting and our 00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:47.860 team of uh fully qualified lifeguards our water 00:59:47.860 --> 00:59:50.239 safety team are all kids who've come through 00:59:50.239 --> 00:59:53.360 the program uh which is really lovely to see 00:59:53.360 --> 00:59:57.320 and yeah it's it's a it's it's exciting uh part 00:59:57.320 --> 00:59:59.679 of durban and and funny enough something that 00:59:59.679 --> 01:00:03.849 i think most of Durban is really proud of. I've 01:00:03.849 --> 01:00:06.530 had a few people on the show who have used diving, 01:00:06.630 --> 01:00:10.849 excuse me, diving, used surfing for kind of mental 01:00:10.849 --> 01:00:13.630 health therapy when it comes to military first 01:00:13.630 --> 01:00:17.929 responders. So one more wave in America and then 01:00:17.929 --> 01:00:19.789 Surfwell, which is a bunch of police officers 01:00:19.789 --> 01:00:22.869 in the UK. And I want to circle around. So I 01:00:22.869 --> 01:00:24.329 know we talked about this last time, but I think 01:00:24.329 --> 01:00:28.530 it's so important. Talk to me about the impact 01:00:28.530 --> 01:00:32.840 of a surf session with the community out in you 01:00:32.840 --> 01:00:35.099 know the salt water and sunlight and then how 01:00:35.099 --> 01:00:38.840 that is is enabling you to then get the kids 01:00:38.840 --> 01:00:41.360 to open up as they sit on the beach afterwards 01:00:41.360 --> 01:00:46.079 yeah look i think surfing in and of itself is 01:00:46.079 --> 01:00:49.159 therapeutic it has its own therapeutic value 01:00:49.159 --> 01:00:52.679 and i think that that's not just because you're 01:00:52.679 --> 01:00:55.599 out in nature you're in the ocean it's beautiful 01:00:55.599 --> 01:00:58.840 it's serene all sorts of things i think that 01:00:58.840 --> 01:01:02.570 is real But as I try and analyze it, I think 01:01:02.570 --> 01:01:05.469 that there's something to be said for the moment 01:01:05.469 --> 01:01:08.150 of riding a wave. The moment of riding a wave, 01:01:08.210 --> 01:01:11.230 you're absolutely forced to live in the moment. 01:01:11.349 --> 01:01:14.630 You can't ride a wave and be thinking about other 01:01:14.630 --> 01:01:18.610 stuff. You just can't. It forces you. The flow 01:01:18.610 --> 01:01:21.110 of being at one with the wave forces you to live 01:01:21.110 --> 01:01:22.750 in the moment. And that's the addictive part 01:01:22.750 --> 01:01:25.949 because sometimes people will say, well, just 01:01:25.949 --> 01:01:28.900 being out there. That's what it's all about, 01:01:28.980 --> 01:01:31.079 just being out in nature. And I actually kind 01:01:31.079 --> 01:01:33.539 of disagree with that because for me, I find 01:01:33.539 --> 01:01:36.400 the ride itself just so addictive. So when I 01:01:36.400 --> 01:01:39.900 kick out of a ride off the top, I paddle like 01:01:39.900 --> 01:01:41.300 crazy because I want to get back out because 01:01:41.300 --> 01:01:44.400 that's what I want that feeling again. So although 01:01:44.400 --> 01:01:47.579 I love being out in nature and that is therapeutic, 01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:50.340 there's something about that that's slightly 01:01:50.340 --> 01:01:53.630 addictive. um feeling of being in the moment 01:01:53.630 --> 01:01:56.469 there's something really special and therapeutic 01:01:56.469 --> 01:01:58.690 about that moment that you just want to do again 01:01:58.690 --> 01:02:02.050 and again and again and again so with that sort 01:02:02.050 --> 01:02:06.090 of value that it has sort of intrinsically i 01:02:06.090 --> 01:02:09.969 think it's a really good fit for social programs 01:02:09.969 --> 01:02:13.409 especially if you're fusing it with mentorship 01:02:13.409 --> 01:02:16.929 and and care or psychosocial care so i always 01:02:16.929 --> 01:02:21.429 say that in and of itself surfing probably isn't 01:02:21.429 --> 01:02:24.949 enough to change the kids' scenarios on its own. 01:02:25.150 --> 01:02:28.050 Like we've had kids that, you know, get into 01:02:28.050 --> 01:02:31.110 surfing and don't get into the program and they 01:02:31.110 --> 01:02:34.010 carry on in street life and it doesn't last very 01:02:34.010 --> 01:02:37.570 long. So even though it can bring them some joy 01:02:37.570 --> 01:02:41.750 and some stoke and, you know, it's good for them 01:02:41.750 --> 01:02:44.869 in a sense. I think it's the fusion. It just 01:02:44.869 --> 01:02:48.230 works really well as part of a model. So our 01:02:48.230 --> 01:02:51.210 model is fusing surfing. with mentorship and 01:02:51.210 --> 01:02:54.690 care and i think that in in those types of you 01:02:54.690 --> 01:02:56.989 mentioned the other organizations i'm sure they're 01:02:56.989 --> 01:02:59.909 finding similar things that surfing isn't the 01:02:59.909 --> 01:03:03.550 model but it fits the model really well and sure 01:03:03.550 --> 01:03:06.650 i reckon you could recreate this with high intensity 01:03:06.650 --> 01:03:08.909 sports where you live in the moment i'm sure 01:03:08.909 --> 01:03:11.429 i'm sure you could do i mean skateboarding there 01:03:11.429 --> 01:03:14.590 are i know of programs that use skateboarding 01:03:14.590 --> 01:03:17.250 i'm sure you could do things like high adventure 01:03:17.250 --> 01:03:20.030 like white water rafting or whatever it is you 01:03:20.030 --> 01:03:22.570 know i'm sure you can for some reason surfing 01:03:22.570 --> 01:03:25.050 fits it really well and maybe that is because 01:03:25.050 --> 01:03:28.349 of the added sort of side benefits as well like 01:03:28.349 --> 01:03:30.730 being in nature and the colors you know the blue 01:03:30.730 --> 01:03:33.409 of the ocean the greens of the palm trees you 01:03:33.409 --> 01:03:37.150 know there are um added sort of elements that 01:03:37.150 --> 01:03:40.449 make it even more uh therapeutic so that package 01:03:40.449 --> 01:03:43.670 in a sense that it creates has meant that we 01:03:43.670 --> 01:03:46.840 found it to be an incredible tool within our 01:03:46.840 --> 01:03:49.480 programs. And might I add that we didn't start 01:03:49.480 --> 01:03:52.639 the organization when I started it in 1998, actually. 01:03:52.840 --> 01:03:55.900 When I started it, I didn't think of surfing 01:03:55.900 --> 01:03:59.739 at first. I had an array of different programs 01:03:59.739 --> 01:04:02.460 and surfing wasn't one of them. And the idea, 01:04:02.539 --> 01:04:04.059 and it wasn't called Surfers Not Street Children 01:04:04.059 --> 01:04:06.840 then, it was called Durban Street Team. One day, 01:04:07.019 --> 01:04:09.079 and I may have told this in the last time we 01:04:09.079 --> 01:04:11.920 spoke, but I was surfing at one of the piers 01:04:11.920 --> 01:04:14.179 in Durban, the new pier actually. And one of 01:04:14.179 --> 01:04:17.099 the kids wanted to surf. with me and he was on 01:04:17.099 --> 01:04:19.780 the pier and you can uh you can talk to people 01:04:19.780 --> 01:04:21.519 they're quite low pier so you can actually have 01:04:21.519 --> 01:04:23.099 a conversation while you're sitting out back 01:04:23.099 --> 01:04:25.119 and he said oh let me surf and the waves were 01:04:25.119 --> 01:04:28.260 tiny so i let him i said jump off i knew he could 01:04:28.260 --> 01:04:30.840 swim and i pushed him into waves and he was hooting 01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:33.099 all the way to the the beach i'm sure i told 01:04:33.099 --> 01:04:36.780 this last time but the fact remains that he enjoyed 01:04:36.780 --> 01:04:38.579 it so much i could just hear him and he wanted 01:04:38.579 --> 01:04:40.420 to go again and again it was like this light 01:04:40.420 --> 01:04:42.730 bulb that went off and i was like yeah I hadn't 01:04:42.730 --> 01:04:45.409 really wanted to put surfing into the program 01:04:45.409 --> 01:04:47.269 because I thought, yeah, that's kind of my thing. 01:04:47.389 --> 01:04:49.829 And I wonder if, I don't really want to impose 01:04:49.829 --> 01:04:52.530 myself. Maybe they want to do other stuff that 01:04:52.530 --> 01:04:54.670 the kids there already like. I don't want to 01:04:54.670 --> 01:04:56.429 think that I'm pushing what I like on the kids. 01:04:56.909 --> 01:05:01.090 And they got so into it. All they wanted to do 01:05:01.090 --> 01:05:03.869 is surf. And it became our, so we started a program 01:05:03.869 --> 01:05:06.849 within what we had. And we were doing football, 01:05:07.110 --> 01:05:09.650 drama, art, all sorts of things. And we still 01:05:09.650 --> 01:05:12.690 do those things. But surfing just took off as 01:05:12.690 --> 01:05:14.789 the one that the kids, it just captured them 01:05:14.789 --> 01:05:17.469 and their imagination. And they were this first 01:05:17.469 --> 01:05:21.110 group of black surfers in the region. They were 01:05:21.110 --> 01:05:23.730 like gladiators walking down the pier. It was 01:05:23.730 --> 01:05:26.690 amazing. You'd find the kids walking down and 01:05:26.690 --> 01:05:29.190 surfing hadn't been accessible to the black communities. 01:05:29.489 --> 01:05:32.690 And so as these black kids would walk down the 01:05:32.690 --> 01:05:35.039 beach with their boards along the pier. it was 01:05:35.039 --> 01:05:36.639 obvious they were going to jump off and suddenly 01:05:36.639 --> 01:05:39.239 a crowd i'm talking in the 90s here which is 01:05:39.239 --> 01:05:41.840 only a few years after you know the first free 01:05:41.840 --> 01:05:46.690 and fair elections yeah crowds of um of Holiday 01:05:46.690 --> 01:05:49.769 makers, because Durban's a big holiday maker 01:05:49.769 --> 01:05:52.369 spot, particularly for the black community coming 01:05:52.369 --> 01:05:54.250 from the rural areas. And they hadn't seen this. 01:05:54.329 --> 01:05:56.349 And so they would gather and the kids would be 01:05:56.349 --> 01:05:58.250 jumping off the pier. They spent like 20 minutes 01:05:58.250 --> 01:06:01.170 of basking in the glory, like these gladiators 01:06:01.170 --> 01:06:03.789 about to go out and do battle. And then they'd 01:06:03.789 --> 01:06:05.969 somersault off the pier and go surfing. And they 01:06:05.969 --> 01:06:09.230 were like these heroes. And it was an extraordinary 01:06:09.230 --> 01:06:14.050 moment to watch because they were the first black 01:06:14.050 --> 01:06:17.289 surfers. after apartheid at least the first black 01:06:17.289 --> 01:06:20.510 crew of surfers there was one or two before them 01:06:20.510 --> 01:06:25.130 um at that beach but not many and so it was a 01:06:25.130 --> 01:06:27.730 it was a new thing for the community and and 01:06:27.730 --> 01:06:30.190 the kids just fell in love with surfing and i'd 01:06:30.190 --> 01:06:33.610 say south africa is certainly one of the countries 01:06:33.610 --> 01:06:38.190 that leads the way on uh on the transform transformation 01:06:38.190 --> 01:06:40.949 of surfing in our region particularly the the 01:06:40.949 --> 01:06:44.570 quasi natal and durban area has been has really 01:06:44.570 --> 01:06:47.289 led the way on transformation within surfing. 01:06:47.469 --> 01:06:50.489 And there's a lot of really, really good black 01:06:50.489 --> 01:06:54.269 surfers within South Africa, and not just surfers 01:06:54.269 --> 01:06:55.710 who've come through our programs, but up and 01:06:55.710 --> 01:06:59.210 down the coast. Mikey Febrey is one of the best 01:06:59.210 --> 01:07:02.190 surfers in the world, and Jose Faulkner, and 01:07:02.190 --> 01:07:07.860 then Tandem, CB. And we've had... Kids from our 01:07:07.860 --> 01:07:10.559 program who've represented South Africa at the 01:07:10.559 --> 01:07:14.019 ISA World Junior Surfing Championships, which 01:07:14.019 --> 01:07:16.880 is incredible to think kids who've sort of been 01:07:16.880 --> 01:07:20.900 born into pretty much abject poverty have come 01:07:20.900 --> 01:07:22.860 through the program, been able to earn their 01:07:22.860 --> 01:07:26.719 green blazers and represent their country. So 01:07:26.719 --> 01:07:28.539 it's exciting. And actually, funnily enough, 01:07:28.559 --> 01:07:32.639 this year, the World Junior Surfing Championships 01:07:32.639 --> 01:07:35.380 is happening, we think, in Peru in December. 01:07:36.769 --> 01:07:40.329 And we've got one of the kids from our program 01:07:40.329 --> 01:07:43.809 who's qualified. So he's in the South African 01:07:43.809 --> 01:07:47.030 national team, a boy called Melo. And actually 01:07:47.030 --> 01:07:50.130 the team manager is a guy called Sisonke, who's 01:07:50.130 --> 01:07:53.469 one of our staff. And he's now getting his green 01:07:53.469 --> 01:07:56.150 blazer as the team manager of the national junior 01:07:56.150 --> 01:07:59.210 surfing team. And on a personal note, I'm also 01:07:59.210 --> 01:08:00.929 stoked because my son made the team as well. 01:08:01.050 --> 01:08:03.449 Oh, brilliant. Is that the same son that's doing 01:08:03.449 --> 01:08:07.570 the modeling? Yeah, that's my eldest. Sabelo 01:08:07.570 --> 01:08:10.329 does the modeling. Okay. And Sienna's the professional 01:08:10.329 --> 01:08:15.769 surfer. Yeah, but it's incredible that the kids 01:08:15.769 --> 01:08:17.829 from the program and the girl we're going to 01:08:17.829 --> 01:08:20.210 talk about in a moment called Indy, she's also 01:08:20.210 --> 01:08:23.489 been selected twice to represent South Africa 01:08:23.489 --> 01:08:25.810 at the World Surfing Championships, Junior Championships 01:08:25.810 --> 01:08:29.130 as well. So, yeah, it's exciting to have seen 01:08:29.130 --> 01:08:31.569 and sort of been part of this great shift in 01:08:31.569 --> 01:08:34.359 South Africa within surfing. And also to have 01:08:34.359 --> 01:08:37.500 surfing as a sport impact the country and impact 01:08:37.500 --> 01:08:39.880 sports within the country. It's been exciting 01:08:39.880 --> 01:08:43.779 to see. It's amazing how powerful sports can 01:08:43.779 --> 01:08:45.439 be. I think, you know, the South African rugby 01:08:45.439 --> 01:08:48.000 team, you know, did some powerful things when 01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:50.199 it came to that integration and telling the world, 01:08:50.239 --> 01:08:52.340 you know, what South Africa should look like 01:08:52.340 --> 01:08:54.760 versus the kind of, you know, the white version 01:08:54.760 --> 01:08:57.979 prior to that. But the program really reminds 01:08:57.979 --> 01:09:01.109 me of, I think, something that we need. more 01:09:01.109 --> 01:09:04.189 now than ever in the US and the UK and other 01:09:04.189 --> 01:09:07.569 areas, I hear over and over again, well, the 01:09:07.569 --> 01:09:12.109 problem is it's these broken homes. And my whole 01:09:12.109 --> 01:09:14.170 thing is that, yeah, but you can't unbreak a 01:09:14.170 --> 01:09:16.590 home. Like if a home is broken, and there's so 01:09:16.590 --> 01:09:19.609 many people in my profession, I'm on my second 01:09:19.609 --> 01:09:22.750 marriage, my son grew up in a home of divorce. 01:09:23.189 --> 01:09:25.909 And we're lucky, both partners were still involved. 01:09:26.029 --> 01:09:28.270 The mother and the father was still healthy and 01:09:28.270 --> 01:09:31.079 present, but... As a paramedic, as a firefighter, 01:09:31.079 --> 01:09:33.420 I've seen those homes. Dad's in prison, mom's 01:09:33.420 --> 01:09:34.979 an addict, and grandparents are raising them, 01:09:34.979 --> 01:09:38.779 whatever it is. And so, you know, to me, it's 01:09:38.779 --> 01:09:42.140 like, okay, well, these exist, full stop. So 01:09:42.140 --> 01:09:44.100 what are we going to do about it? Well, what 01:09:44.100 --> 01:09:46.260 you do is firstly, you take care of your own 01:09:46.260 --> 01:09:48.279 home, and then you step outside your front door 01:09:48.279 --> 01:09:50.300 and you go, how can I be a mentor in my community? 01:09:50.970 --> 01:09:53.050 And I think this is exactly what we need, not 01:09:53.050 --> 01:09:55.310 this divisive nastiness that we're hearing in 01:09:55.310 --> 01:09:58.069 so many of, you know, these air quotes developed 01:09:58.069 --> 01:10:01.010 nations at the moment. But, you know, it takes 01:10:01.010 --> 01:10:03.909 a village. And if a child has been born into 01:10:03.909 --> 01:10:06.109 an environment that is not setting them up for 01:10:06.109 --> 01:10:08.289 success and they're in an area that maybe they 01:10:08.289 --> 01:10:10.729 might get pulled into gangs or prostitution or 01:10:10.729 --> 01:10:14.369 some of these negative areas, then it's up to 01:10:14.369 --> 01:10:18.300 the rest of us to, you know. encircle them and 01:10:18.300 --> 01:10:20.239 and then steer them in the right direction this 01:10:20.239 --> 01:10:22.800 is what you've illustrated so beautifully a lot 01:10:22.800 --> 01:10:24.479 of these kids that you talked about that are 01:10:24.479 --> 01:10:27.000 in this world surf league now could also ended 01:10:27.000 --> 01:10:30.399 up you know overdosing on the streets or you 01:10:30.399 --> 01:10:32.739 know dying in a gang related you know shooting 01:10:32.739 --> 01:10:35.680 or whatever it was and the only difference was 01:10:35.680 --> 01:10:39.279 those kids were met with a positive role model 01:10:39.279 --> 01:10:41.880 positive group of mentors that took them in a 01:10:41.880 --> 01:10:44.819 different direction and understanding that all 01:10:44.819 --> 01:10:48.489 of us were giggling little toddlers once and 01:10:48.489 --> 01:10:51.050 it's the environment that dictates if you end 01:10:51.050 --> 01:10:54.850 up you know as a crip or a blood or you know 01:10:54.850 --> 01:10:57.890 the the world surfing champion whatever it is 01:10:57.890 --> 01:11:00.609 is simply the other people around you and i love 01:11:00.609 --> 01:11:02.689 you know what you're doing and so many other 01:11:02.689 --> 01:11:06.449 people that have come on the show is be part 01:11:06.449 --> 01:11:11.310 of the solution it's that simple yeah i agree 01:11:11.310 --> 01:11:14.630 absolutely and i also think that probably you 01:11:14.630 --> 01:11:18.239 know There's many heartwarming moments when you're 01:11:18.239 --> 01:11:20.300 doing this job. There's also harrowing moments 01:11:20.300 --> 01:11:22.560 because some kids don't make it, of course. But 01:11:22.560 --> 01:11:25.420 probably the most heartwarming moments for me 01:11:25.420 --> 01:11:29.699 is when you see the joy on the face of the parents 01:11:29.699 --> 01:11:33.119 when they see their child succeeding. Because 01:11:33.119 --> 01:11:35.579 obviously our goal is not to take over the responsibility 01:11:35.579 --> 01:11:39.159 of parents. Our goal is to empower the parents 01:11:39.159 --> 01:11:42.699 to add value to what they're already doing because 01:11:42.699 --> 01:11:45.520 most of them love their kids. um most of them 01:11:45.520 --> 01:11:48.500 live in very very complicated social scenarios 01:11:48.500 --> 01:11:52.239 things have gone wrong often and uh but deep 01:11:52.239 --> 01:11:55.020 down they love their kids and they might be struggling 01:11:55.020 --> 01:11:58.560 to do parenting but if you can assist them in 01:11:58.560 --> 01:12:01.060 ways that relieve some of the pressure but also 01:12:01.060 --> 01:12:04.380 don't take away their agency and and their ability 01:12:04.380 --> 01:12:06.460 to to be there for their own children and be 01:12:06.460 --> 01:12:09.260 connected and be loved by their children then 01:12:09.260 --> 01:12:13.479 actually that's that's exactly it transforms 01:12:13.479 --> 01:12:15.920 the kids and that's what they need. And so we've 01:12:15.920 --> 01:12:20.659 had kids that are successful in things that you 01:12:20.659 --> 01:12:22.340 wouldn't even necessarily think are massively 01:12:22.340 --> 01:12:24.520 successful, but given the context of which they're 01:12:24.520 --> 01:12:28.659 coming from, are just huge. And the joy and the 01:12:28.659 --> 01:12:31.920 dignity on the faces of the parents when they 01:12:31.920 --> 01:12:34.460 see that their kid didn't go into the gangs and 01:12:34.460 --> 01:12:39.760 went on to work somewhere or didn't hang out 01:12:39.760 --> 01:12:42.340 on the streets or in the... the games rooms where 01:12:42.340 --> 01:12:45.260 the gangs are, they come to the club and they 01:12:45.260 --> 01:12:48.939 got a fifth in the surf contest. You know, it's 01:12:48.939 --> 01:12:53.100 just so beautiful to see because one thing I've 01:12:53.100 --> 01:12:56.779 realized is that people get caught up in the 01:12:56.779 --> 01:13:00.960 day -to -day of living and sometimes this can 01:13:00.960 --> 01:13:02.819 bring out the worst in them. But if you enable 01:13:02.819 --> 01:13:06.000 them to just have a bit of breathing space, I'm 01:13:06.000 --> 01:13:11.539 talking about the parents here, they... mostly 01:13:11.539 --> 01:13:15.220 all love their kids. It's very rare that someone 01:13:15.220 --> 01:13:17.159 really doesn't. And it does happen. We know the 01:13:17.159 --> 01:13:21.079 horror stories. But generally, parents love their 01:13:21.079 --> 01:13:24.659 kids. And if you can give them that space to 01:13:24.659 --> 01:13:28.739 just scrape away some of the stuff that's clouding 01:13:28.739 --> 01:13:32.939 everything and to let their kids, empower their 01:13:32.939 --> 01:13:36.640 kids to develop, the joy that it brings to that 01:13:36.640 --> 01:13:39.439 family and the glue that it brings that connects 01:13:39.439 --> 01:13:43.920 them all. is pretty amazing to see. Well, what 01:13:43.920 --> 01:13:46.199 you just alluded to a moment ago, that we can't 01:13:46.199 --> 01:13:48.460 save all of them. I mean, we try to save all 01:13:48.460 --> 01:13:50.060 of them, but obviously there's always going to 01:13:50.060 --> 01:13:51.720 be those anomalies that fall through the cracks. 01:13:52.319 --> 01:13:56.619 This is what I see used to discourage. Oh, well, 01:13:56.779 --> 01:13:58.699 you know, that one person, you know, that one 01:13:58.699 --> 01:14:00.279 child didn't make it. It went back to the gang. 01:14:00.359 --> 01:14:02.239 So therefore, obviously, the nonprofit doesn't 01:14:02.239 --> 01:14:04.819 work or food stamps. Well, this is one, you know, 01:14:04.840 --> 01:14:07.159 we found this immigrant family and they've been 01:14:07.159 --> 01:14:09.000 using food stamps and then selling the food. 01:14:09.039 --> 01:14:11.619 So therefore, social programs don't work. And 01:14:11.619 --> 01:14:14.039 that's bullshit. Like most of them do. Most of 01:14:14.039 --> 01:14:16.560 like you said, if you give people the ability 01:14:16.560 --> 01:14:18.680 to just stand on their own two feet again and 01:14:18.680 --> 01:14:21.159 just take some of the load off their back, a 01:14:21.159 --> 01:14:22.819 lot of people will be able to stand on their 01:14:22.819 --> 01:14:26.500 own again. refine their autonomy. And then, you 01:14:26.500 --> 01:14:28.439 know, that's going to help forge an even better 01:14:28.439 --> 01:14:30.960 relationship with their children. And now, you 01:14:30.960 --> 01:14:33.079 know, you're changing the world because, you 01:14:33.079 --> 01:14:35.420 know, I've said this so many times, you truly 01:14:35.420 --> 01:14:37.859 want to change the world, raise a kind, compassionate, 01:14:37.939 --> 01:14:40.260 strong child. That's it. That's the next generation. 01:14:40.460 --> 01:14:43.000 So a lot of these programs, all of these nonprofits 01:14:43.000 --> 01:14:47.100 are doing exactly that. But I see. the, you know, 01:14:47.119 --> 01:14:49.020 when it's coming from a predatory background, 01:14:49.239 --> 01:14:51.520 usually corporate or political or whatever it 01:14:51.520 --> 01:14:55.319 is, they'll use those failures to say, see, it 01:14:55.319 --> 01:14:59.239 doesn't work and ignore the other 95, 90 % that 01:14:59.239 --> 01:15:02.560 did work and talking about that. Yeah, yeah, 01:15:02.619 --> 01:15:09.520 absolutely. I think that, you know, we know the 01:15:09.520 --> 01:15:11.890 worst of it. So in other words, you know, that 01:15:11.890 --> 01:15:14.909 without any guidance the worst scenarios that 01:15:14.909 --> 01:15:17.409 the kids can face we all know those we can imagine 01:15:17.409 --> 01:15:20.989 those they're they're horrific and yes you can't 01:15:20.989 --> 01:15:25.069 stop every child um from falling into those to 01:15:25.069 --> 01:15:29.310 those types of pits but i would say to to the 01:15:29.310 --> 01:15:34.270 team my colleagues i say we need to operate almost 01:15:34.270 --> 01:15:37.090 with the mentality that if if we can just save 01:15:37.090 --> 01:15:40.960 one child's life and by save i mean give them 01:15:40.960 --> 01:15:43.600 the power to turn their lives around you know 01:15:43.600 --> 01:15:47.079 give them the agency to do that um then it's 01:15:47.079 --> 01:15:49.539 worth it so because you could you could definitely 01:15:49.539 --> 01:15:53.140 focus on the multitude over the years that don't 01:15:53.140 --> 01:15:55.899 make it and that could be depressing sure but 01:15:55.899 --> 01:15:58.300 actually it's not just one child there are many 01:15:58.300 --> 01:16:00.220 many many kids that have come through the program 01:16:00.220 --> 01:16:02.659 when you start looking at that you think wow 01:16:02.659 --> 01:16:05.659 you know it's it's hard because you can get despondent 01:16:05.659 --> 01:16:08.300 quite easily but if you step back and you say 01:16:08.300 --> 01:16:13.380 okay but it Any one child or any child that is 01:16:13.380 --> 01:16:15.779 able to transform their lives makes this whole 01:16:15.779 --> 01:16:18.119 thing worth it. If that's our starting point, 01:16:18.300 --> 01:16:23.460 it's much easier to not get burnt out or to feel 01:16:23.460 --> 01:16:27.840 despondent about it. And my staff, I mean, the 01:16:27.840 --> 01:16:30.939 team that I work alongside, they're awesome people. 01:16:31.420 --> 01:16:35.220 And, you know, we have a, I basically oversee 01:16:35.220 --> 01:16:38.720 both countries, but we have local directors who 01:16:38.720 --> 01:16:44.310 run the show. Sandile in South Africa, in Mozambique. 01:16:44.689 --> 01:16:47.949 They're really deciding what happens. They're 01:16:47.949 --> 01:16:52.029 best placed to work with the kids that are coming 01:16:52.029 --> 01:16:53.890 into the program and to decide how it's done. 01:16:54.430 --> 01:16:58.350 And it can be hard because when you're immersed 01:16:58.350 --> 01:17:01.630 in that world, I mean, the world, the street 01:17:01.630 --> 01:17:06.630 life world is really tricky. And it's... There 01:17:06.630 --> 01:17:09.670 are so many things that are complicated and fuzzy, 01:17:09.850 --> 01:17:12.010 especially when you're dealing with addiction 01:17:12.010 --> 01:17:15.670 and trauma. Addiction and trauma, they're not 01:17:15.670 --> 01:17:19.390 logical in a sense. So you could say to a child, 01:17:19.630 --> 01:17:22.649 hey, life's not going right for you. We can see 01:17:22.649 --> 01:17:25.689 that. Here's a better alternative. And they don't 01:17:25.689 --> 01:17:27.729 take it. And the reason they don't take it is 01:17:27.729 --> 01:17:30.750 because addiction and trauma mean that they're 01:17:30.750 --> 01:17:33.579 not able to make the logical. Because if you 01:17:33.579 --> 01:17:36.739 didn't have that, the logical decision, if you 01:17:36.739 --> 01:17:39.260 trusted the person, the logical decision would 01:17:39.260 --> 01:17:42.560 be embrace because it's a lot better than what 01:17:42.560 --> 01:17:45.720 I've got. But when that judgment is clouded by 01:17:45.720 --> 01:17:48.460 addiction and trauma, that makes life difficult. 01:17:48.579 --> 01:17:51.079 So when talking with the team, I always say to 01:17:51.079 --> 01:17:53.899 them, you know, we've got to remember that the 01:17:53.899 --> 01:17:57.680 kids that are in the worst scenarios with trauma 01:17:57.680 --> 01:18:00.289 particularly, but also addiction. are not able 01:18:00.289 --> 01:18:02.689 at the beginning to make the logical decision. 01:18:02.890 --> 01:18:05.970 So we have to journey with them. And that gap 01:18:05.970 --> 01:18:09.489 of journeying with them until they're able to 01:18:09.489 --> 01:18:13.909 make a logical decision is really hard because 01:18:13.909 --> 01:18:16.130 you're trying to maybe convince them that there's 01:18:16.130 --> 01:18:19.810 a better opportunity. They can't see it. And 01:18:19.810 --> 01:18:22.329 it's because the judgment is clouded and it's 01:18:22.329 --> 01:18:25.600 clouded with real things. Trauma is real. And 01:18:25.600 --> 01:18:27.960 addiction is real. The pangs of these drugs that 01:18:27.960 --> 01:18:30.479 they take that pull them back into the streets 01:18:30.479 --> 01:18:35.539 and the confusion that trauma leaves imprinted 01:18:35.539 --> 01:18:38.699 on their minds. And it can be really frustrating 01:18:38.699 --> 01:18:42.319 for the staff. They're like, it's such an obvious, 01:18:42.539 --> 01:18:44.699 here's their moment. They just have to seize. 01:18:44.899 --> 01:18:47.180 That's it. There's the moment. And they can't 01:18:47.180 --> 01:18:49.899 do it. And what we have to say is, well, sure. 01:18:50.500 --> 01:18:53.420 OK, but let's keep going. We keep going and we 01:18:53.420 --> 01:18:56.319 keep going. And hopefully we journey with them 01:18:56.319 --> 01:18:58.979 long enough for them to be able to make that 01:18:58.979 --> 01:19:01.640 change. And the other thing we recognize is that 01:19:01.640 --> 01:19:05.479 our programs, the best scenario of our program 01:19:05.479 --> 01:19:10.060 isn't the rescue. The rescue is a rescue. It's 01:19:10.060 --> 01:19:13.119 emergency. It's when a kid has had the worst 01:19:13.119 --> 01:19:16.039 happen to them and we're rescuing. And it's much 01:19:16.039 --> 01:19:19.619 harder. The child who's been through that, their 01:19:19.619 --> 01:19:22.779 adult life will be harder. The best scenario 01:19:22.779 --> 01:19:27.020 for us is the ongoing diversion. So the kid that 01:19:27.020 --> 01:19:29.260 does the best in our program is the kid that 01:19:29.260 --> 01:19:31.659 comes in at five years old and stays till they're 01:19:31.659 --> 01:19:35.720 18 plus. That's the dream scenario. So we mentor 01:19:35.720 --> 01:19:38.460 them through the whole of their childhood. And 01:19:38.460 --> 01:19:40.659 that's our goal. So our teams are out there identifying 01:19:40.659 --> 01:19:44.140 who are the kids that will be tomorrow's gangster 01:19:44.140 --> 01:19:47.739 or tomorrow's... you know, exploited child. These 01:19:47.739 --> 01:19:50.079 are the kids we want in the program from the 01:19:50.079 --> 01:19:52.979 get -go. Because if we can mentor them, you know, 01:19:52.979 --> 01:19:56.100 and provide this added value to their family 01:19:56.100 --> 01:19:59.119 scenario, we can stop them ever getting into 01:19:59.119 --> 01:20:01.479 street life. And that's the goal that we're looking 01:20:01.479 --> 01:20:03.520 for. And it doesn't mean we're less enthusiastic 01:20:03.520 --> 01:20:06.359 about the rescue. Of course not. But it just 01:20:06.359 --> 01:20:09.039 means we know that if you can save them the trauma 01:20:09.039 --> 01:20:11.699 and the addiction, they're going to start making 01:20:11.699 --> 01:20:14.319 the right decisions way earlier in their lives. 01:20:15.420 --> 01:20:17.420 I mean, this really kind of goes back to what 01:20:17.420 --> 01:20:19.500 we were talking about earlier with obesity, with, 01:20:19.619 --> 01:20:22.399 you know, addiction and, you know, violence here 01:20:22.399 --> 01:20:26.479 in the U .S. is they are products of the environment. 01:20:26.619 --> 01:20:28.739 You know, you get these people that are so judgy. 01:20:28.739 --> 01:20:30.380 Well, if they just, you know, got up at five 01:20:30.380 --> 01:20:32.659 o 'clock and ran 10 miles and then ate a salad, 01:20:32.800 --> 01:20:35.760 they could be like me. And I've always said that 01:20:35.760 --> 01:20:38.619 I grew up on a farm in England. So, you know, 01:20:38.659 --> 01:20:41.159 I had orchards and vegetables and, you know, 01:20:41.159 --> 01:20:43.739 livestock and, you know, it was baling hay and 01:20:43.739 --> 01:20:46.880 mucking out stables. So my whole baseline was 01:20:46.880 --> 01:20:48.640 completely different than someone that grew up 01:20:48.640 --> 01:20:51.300 in the middle of London. You know, that all they 01:20:51.300 --> 01:20:53.439 had was, you know, the little flat and computer 01:20:53.439 --> 01:20:56.000 games and maybe fish and chips. I mean, you know, 01:20:56.020 --> 01:21:00.130 totally different environment completely. do 01:21:00.130 --> 01:21:02.270 you want to forge you want to move the needle 01:21:02.270 --> 01:21:04.489 on this like you said it's the proactive element 01:21:04.489 --> 01:21:06.750 like how can you get to people at the beginning 01:21:06.750 --> 01:21:08.550 which just goes back to my comment if you put 01:21:08.550 --> 01:21:10.770 real food in schools get rid of all the shit 01:21:10.770 --> 01:21:14.090 all the you know the soda machine you know vending 01:21:14.090 --> 01:21:17.010 machines and you have them doing pe you know 01:21:17.010 --> 01:21:20.750 not not electively you do pe like a class then 01:21:20.750 --> 01:21:22.789 of course you're going to make a huge impact 01:21:22.789 --> 01:21:24.869 on the physical health and the mental health 01:21:24.869 --> 01:21:27.409 and bullying and grades and all these other areas. 01:21:27.569 --> 01:21:31.210 But if you just leave it the same and then complain 01:21:31.210 --> 01:21:33.409 about obesity and watch your healthcare system 01:21:33.409 --> 01:21:36.029 crumble and then arrest all these people because 01:21:36.029 --> 01:21:38.510 you haven't given them positive mentors. You 01:21:38.510 --> 01:21:40.590 know, insanity is doing the same thing, expecting 01:21:40.590 --> 01:21:43.350 different results. So, you know, only when you 01:21:43.350 --> 01:21:46.630 create an environment that allows people to elevate 01:21:46.630 --> 01:21:48.550 themselves that you're going to make change, 01:21:48.710 --> 01:21:50.710 which goes back to your point. What I did for 01:21:50.710 --> 01:21:53.569 a living was someone called 911 and we responded. 01:21:53.770 --> 01:21:57.390 We were the rescuers. What I do now is what you're 01:21:57.390 --> 01:21:59.989 talking about, is trying to get people, you know, 01:21:59.989 --> 01:22:01.989 before they ever get to that point, before they 01:22:01.989 --> 01:22:05.000 ever have that emergency. Yeah. That's really 01:22:05.000 --> 01:22:07.539 interesting because I think that one of the areas 01:22:07.539 --> 01:22:10.939 that we've really opened up to is this whole 01:22:10.939 --> 01:22:13.960 sort of, I know it's a catch -all, but wellness. 01:22:15.500 --> 01:22:18.880 Because one thing we've noticed is that the more 01:22:18.880 --> 01:22:22.939 you look at the wellness of the child, because 01:22:22.939 --> 01:22:24.859 we want these kids, as I said, to be in the program 01:22:24.859 --> 01:22:27.819 their entirety of their childhood. So then it's 01:22:27.819 --> 01:22:30.159 really, there's quite a bit of responsibility 01:22:30.159 --> 01:22:34.050 on us. What do you expose them to? What is it 01:22:34.050 --> 01:22:37.310 you want? And that's an amazing opportunity for 01:22:37.310 --> 01:22:41.609 them and a responsibility for us because we know 01:22:41.609 --> 01:22:44.890 from our own lives, and I think it's dawning 01:22:44.890 --> 01:22:47.390 on a lot of people, that this whole world of 01:22:47.390 --> 01:22:51.569 wellness can equip you. Not only can it give 01:22:51.569 --> 01:22:54.789 you much more peace in your current moment of 01:22:54.789 --> 01:22:57.130 life, but it can equip you for the future. So 01:22:57.130 --> 01:23:01.310 if these kids, I mean, they have various different... 01:23:01.560 --> 01:23:04.159 aspects of wellness, whether it be nutrition 01:23:04.159 --> 01:23:07.859 program to ensure that they're not eating the 01:23:07.859 --> 01:23:11.220 sort of sugary junk that's available if you have 01:23:11.220 --> 01:23:16.239 no money, to our Saturday morning yoga class. 01:23:16.739 --> 01:23:21.699 These are things that are part and parcel of 01:23:21.699 --> 01:23:23.720 developing them. And don't forget that if that's 01:23:23.720 --> 01:23:25.319 part of our program, that means that these kids 01:23:25.319 --> 01:23:28.180 are doing this every day, nutrition, every week, 01:23:28.199 --> 01:23:31.539 yoga. Almost every day surfing when the conditions 01:23:31.539 --> 01:23:33.119 are right, which is a lot of the time in South 01:23:33.119 --> 01:23:35.979 Africa. And so you start adding in all these 01:23:35.979 --> 01:23:40.380 different aspects of wellness and of health and 01:23:40.380 --> 01:23:44.319 of, you know, nurturing the kids. And these things, 01:23:44.380 --> 01:23:48.699 I just believe that these things are so important 01:23:48.699 --> 01:23:51.000 to ensuring that the kids have the best shot 01:23:51.000 --> 01:23:54.279 at their adult lives, as well as having meaningful 01:23:54.279 --> 01:24:00.580 fun and development during their childhood. Absolutely. 01:24:00.580 --> 01:24:02.939 Well, you mentioned earlier Indy, so let's talk 01:24:02.939 --> 01:24:07.619 about her. Yeah, Indy's fantastic. She's so charismatic. 01:24:08.159 --> 01:24:11.119 She's 18 now. She's come through the program 01:24:11.119 --> 01:24:14.819 since she was about eight years old. We started 01:24:14.819 --> 01:24:17.279 this program called Girls Surf 2, and we've always 01:24:17.279 --> 01:24:18.800 worked with girls, but we wanted to do something 01:24:18.800 --> 01:24:21.699 really targeted for the girls. It was very specific 01:24:21.699 --> 01:24:24.159 to the needs of a girl child. We started this 01:24:24.159 --> 01:24:27.460 about eight or nine years ago. And she was one 01:24:27.460 --> 01:24:29.340 of the first girls to come into that program. 01:24:29.619 --> 01:24:31.659 And she would have been about eight, nine at 01:24:31.659 --> 01:24:34.760 the time. And she's she learned to surf in the 01:24:34.760 --> 01:24:38.319 program. We made sure that she was in school 01:24:38.319 --> 01:24:42.060 and, you know, went through her schooling childhood. 01:24:42.539 --> 01:24:46.239 And she actually qualified twice for the South 01:24:46.239 --> 01:24:49.579 African national team. She competed in El Salvador. 01:24:49.600 --> 01:24:52.380 I think the other was Brazil, if I'm not mistaken. 01:24:52.439 --> 01:24:56.449 She did two different. uh isa world championships 01:24:56.449 --> 01:24:59.529 um so she earned her green blazer as a spring 01:24:59.529 --> 01:25:02.510 box surfer but she was also excelling at school 01:25:02.510 --> 01:25:05.569 so we were really encouraging her with that and 01:25:05.569 --> 01:25:07.789 and her sisters in the program our younger sister 01:25:07.789 --> 01:25:11.270 as well and her grades were magnificent and she 01:25:11.270 --> 01:25:15.489 got accepted to study international law at swansea 01:25:15.489 --> 01:25:18.829 university in the uk which is fantastic great 01:25:18.829 --> 01:25:21.670 achievement you know but of course coming out 01:25:21.670 --> 01:25:24.649 of the point area of Durban. And, you know, she 01:25:24.649 --> 01:25:27.630 just had to step outside her, her front door 01:25:27.630 --> 01:25:29.510 and the street life is there. It's amazing that 01:25:29.510 --> 01:25:31.550 she survived that. That's just unbelievable, 01:25:31.569 --> 01:25:35.590 but obviously didn't have any means to, to go 01:25:35.590 --> 01:25:37.489 to university. So we thought about it and she's 01:25:37.489 --> 01:25:40.470 so inspirational to the other kids. She's a real 01:25:40.470 --> 01:25:42.930 leader. And I think she has like incredible leadership 01:25:42.930 --> 01:25:46.090 potential for the future anyway, in whatever 01:25:46.090 --> 01:25:50.260 field, but. She wants to use international law 01:25:50.260 --> 01:25:53.520 as a way of giving back. And so we just said, 01:25:53.560 --> 01:25:55.819 well, we sat down and thought, we've got to try 01:25:55.819 --> 01:25:58.560 and make this happen. And, you know, English 01:25:58.560 --> 01:26:02.479 university is expensive, but we decided we would 01:26:02.479 --> 01:26:06.500 do a big fundraiser each year and raise the money 01:26:06.500 --> 01:26:09.279 for her to have a scholarship to study. And we're 01:26:09.279 --> 01:26:12.880 doing it year by year. And I think once she's... 01:26:12.989 --> 01:26:15.510 in the uk she's so charismatic that we can do 01:26:15.510 --> 01:26:18.149 a couple of events for for the oncoming years 01:26:18.149 --> 01:26:20.489 so we just worried at the moment about year one 01:26:20.489 --> 01:26:24.029 and uh we've got to raise about 27 000 pounds 01:26:24.029 --> 01:26:26.550 which is a lot of money um and we've raised about 01:26:26.550 --> 01:26:32.510 uh 16 now um and i think we're almost getting 01:26:32.510 --> 01:26:35.250 to stage where we've got enough that we can start 01:26:35.250 --> 01:26:38.829 the pro start her uh and then sort of They catch 01:26:38.829 --> 01:26:41.250 up with the fundraising. So, yeah, it's really 01:26:41.250 --> 01:26:43.970 exciting. And if anyone out there is interested 01:26:43.970 --> 01:26:47.489 in being part of making Indy's dream a reality, 01:26:47.729 --> 01:26:50.189 we'd really appreciate that. And not just for 01:26:50.189 --> 01:26:53.270 Indy. I do think it's incredible for Indy, but 01:26:53.270 --> 01:26:57.569 also for all the girls in the program that look 01:26:57.569 --> 01:26:59.949 up to her. And it's not to say that, you know, 01:26:59.949 --> 01:27:02.550 her studying in the UK means that every kid is 01:27:02.550 --> 01:27:05.329 going to study overseas. But, you know, one child 01:27:05.329 --> 01:27:08.470 to reach for the stars. says to the other children 01:27:08.470 --> 01:27:12.149 that whatever the things are that they're moving 01:27:12.149 --> 01:27:15.569 towards, things are possible. And so we really 01:27:15.569 --> 01:27:17.810 want to make it a reality. She's an incredible, 01:27:17.930 --> 01:27:22.949 charismatic, very, very funny, talkative. And 01:27:22.949 --> 01:27:27.430 actually, there's a lovely video on our Instagram 01:27:27.430 --> 01:27:31.550 page by a guy called Mikey Corker, a British 01:27:31.550 --> 01:27:36.159 guy who's been in the UK. and he's been in South 01:27:36.159 --> 01:27:38.560 Africa. Actually, he's a South African guy living 01:27:38.560 --> 01:27:41.100 in the UK who's been back in South Africa shooting 01:27:41.100 --> 01:27:46.159 an edit for us, and he's producing a short film 01:27:46.159 --> 01:27:48.420 about Surfers Not Street Children, but he did 01:27:48.420 --> 01:27:51.699 a one -minute piece about Indy, which is really 01:27:51.699 --> 01:27:53.460 compelling as well. So have a look at that on 01:27:53.460 --> 01:27:56.119 our Instagram, at Surfers Not Street Children. 01:27:57.200 --> 01:27:59.600 Brilliant. Now, if people want to learn more 01:27:59.600 --> 01:28:02.800 about you, want to donate to Indie, where are 01:28:02.800 --> 01:28:06.079 the best places online to do that? Yeah, definitely 01:28:06.079 --> 01:28:09.020 Instagram. I mean, our website's good, but Instagram 01:28:09.020 --> 01:28:11.960 is probably the most up to date. We've got two 01:28:11.960 --> 01:28:13.699 campaigns running at the moment. We've got Indie's 01:28:13.699 --> 01:28:17.380 campaign and we've got this incredible... moment 01:28:17.380 --> 01:28:20.520 for 15 of the children have qualified for the 01:28:20.520 --> 01:28:24.659 provincial team to represent uh in the nationals 01:28:24.659 --> 01:28:26.939 in south africa so we were talking earlier about 01:28:26.939 --> 01:28:29.680 the the international worlds this is actually 01:28:29.680 --> 01:28:33.579 for the nationals in jeffrey's bay a very famous 01:28:33.579 --> 01:28:37.439 surfing place so 15 of the kids are going to 01:28:37.439 --> 01:28:39.260 go down to jeffrey's bay and compete for the 01:28:39.260 --> 01:28:42.659 region but unfortunately Parents pay, and obviously 01:28:42.659 --> 01:28:44.880 these kids are not in the position to do so, 01:28:44.920 --> 01:28:46.680 so we've got to find the money for 15 of them 01:28:46.680 --> 01:28:48.560 to compete. So that's our other campaign at the 01:28:48.560 --> 01:28:51.579 moment. So you'll see the two campaigns on the 01:28:51.579 --> 01:28:55.659 Instagram. One is the one for the team, and then 01:28:55.659 --> 01:29:00.300 the other one is for Indy's education. Yeah, 01:29:01.079 --> 01:29:04.020 we'd value any support, any encouragement. We'd 01:29:04.020 --> 01:29:06.979 be gladly received. Beautiful. Well, I've got 01:29:06.979 --> 01:29:08.619 some closing questions to throw at you if you've 01:29:08.619 --> 01:29:11.560 got time. Yeah, absolutely. All right. The first 01:29:11.560 --> 01:29:14.180 one I love to ask, is there a book or other books 01:29:14.180 --> 01:29:16.579 that you love to recommend? It can be related 01:29:16.579 --> 01:29:18.779 to our discussion today or completely unrelated. 01:29:21.880 --> 01:29:24.659 One that I read over and over and over again, 01:29:24.859 --> 01:29:28.739 it's a bit obscure, but it was called Pedagogy 01:29:28.739 --> 01:29:36.539 of the Oppressed by Paulo Freire. And that was 01:29:36.539 --> 01:29:42.420 really the blueprint. that I used for starting 01:29:42.420 --> 01:29:46.359 the organization. And then I fused it with I 01:29:46.359 --> 01:29:50.319 Write What I Like by Steve Biko. And I was very 01:29:50.319 --> 01:29:52.979 fortunate to have been sort of taken under the 01:29:52.979 --> 01:29:56.579 wing of Steve's wife, Nsiki Biko, when I was 01:29:56.579 --> 01:30:00.100 in the Eastern Cape, and also his brother, Kaya. 01:30:00.880 --> 01:30:04.579 Obviously, Steve had been murdered by the South 01:30:04.579 --> 01:30:08.829 African state. the apartheid state and uh i got 01:30:08.829 --> 01:30:11.710 quite a political education through chatting 01:30:11.710 --> 01:30:15.930 with uh kaya bico and uh and steve's wife and 01:30:15.930 --> 01:30:18.390 siki which was uh which is amazing so those two 01:30:18.390 --> 01:30:21.710 books would be my yeah i mean there's others 01:30:21.710 --> 01:30:23.430 but those two for sort of really foundational 01:30:23.430 --> 01:30:26.869 stuff are pretty amazing beautiful well i mentioned 01:30:26.869 --> 01:30:28.869 cry freedom obviously which tells steve's story 01:30:28.869 --> 01:30:32.149 what about other films and documentaries that 01:30:32.149 --> 01:30:37.800 you love Yeah, that's a very good question. Films, 01:30:37.800 --> 01:30:42.420 funnily enough, Cry Freedom is one of my favourites. 01:30:42.460 --> 01:30:48.239 I think the Serafina as well, which was a play 01:30:48.239 --> 01:30:52.279 by Mbungeni Ngema, a South African playwright 01:30:52.279 --> 01:30:55.619 who passed away recently. He was very famous 01:30:55.619 --> 01:30:59.119 during the apartheid years. But they made a film 01:30:59.119 --> 01:31:02.260 of it with a woman called Leleti Kumalo. And 01:31:02.260 --> 01:31:04.079 actually Whoopi Goldberg was in it as well, which 01:31:04.079 --> 01:31:06.140 sounds a little strange for a South African film, 01:31:06.220 --> 01:31:08.880 but it was obviously to attract, she does well 01:31:08.880 --> 01:31:10.960 in it actually, it was to attract an international 01:31:10.960 --> 01:31:16.840 audience. And I find that one very moving. And 01:31:16.840 --> 01:31:20.720 then as a surfer, I think, you know, I grew up 01:31:20.720 --> 01:31:23.979 watching films by a filmmaker called Jack McCoy. 01:31:24.489 --> 01:31:27.130 And he's just passed away as well. And he made 01:31:27.130 --> 01:31:29.930 a couple of, well, many, many, many incredible 01:31:29.930 --> 01:31:32.489 surf films. And if you want to get into some 01:31:32.489 --> 01:31:35.869 sort of old school surf stuff, some sort of late 01:31:35.869 --> 01:31:39.970 80s, 90s and 2000s, I would say look up anything 01:31:39.970 --> 01:31:44.310 by Jack McCoy. Brilliant. Well, speaking of interesting 01:31:44.310 --> 01:31:46.710 people, is there a person you'd recommend to 01:31:46.710 --> 01:31:49.510 come on this podcast as a guest to speak to the 01:31:49.510 --> 01:31:51.909 first responders, military and associated professions 01:31:51.909 --> 01:31:56.859 of the world? Wow. I could certainly come up 01:31:56.859 --> 01:31:59.479 with someone. If I can think of someone off the 01:31:59.479 --> 01:32:02.720 top of my head right now, I'm not sure. But yes, 01:32:02.899 --> 01:32:05.239 I'm sure I know many, many, many people I could 01:32:05.239 --> 01:32:09.039 recommend and would be happy to do so. Brilliant. 01:32:09.220 --> 01:32:10.979 All right. Well, the last question before we 01:32:10.979 --> 01:32:12.659 make sure everyone knows, again, where to find 01:32:12.659 --> 01:32:17.439 you. What do you do to decompress? Surf, which 01:32:17.439 --> 01:32:20.159 is great until you're injured, which is what 01:32:20.159 --> 01:32:24.229 I am at the moment. I had a little... had a little 01:32:24.229 --> 01:32:26.170 injury to my lower back it's nothing that i won't 01:32:26.170 --> 01:32:28.329 recover from but just takes a bit of time so 01:32:28.329 --> 01:32:31.369 you normally i surf but right now i'm swimming 01:32:31.369 --> 01:32:34.470 lengths and lengths and lengths just to decompress 01:32:34.470 --> 01:32:38.829 and uh but but definitely surfing is is is that 01:32:38.829 --> 01:32:42.670 for me and and also i've got three sons um and 01:32:42.670 --> 01:32:44.869 i i just needed one of them to surf they all 01:32:44.869 --> 01:32:46.909 do interesting stuff and i engage in whatever 01:32:46.909 --> 01:32:49.189 they're doing but i've got one son that surfs 01:32:49.189 --> 01:32:51.170 and that is pretty special when you can surf 01:32:51.170 --> 01:32:53.569 with a with you know one of your kids that's 01:32:53.569 --> 01:32:56.689 that's a pretty special experience as well have 01:32:56.689 --> 01:32:59.270 you come across foundation training the back 01:32:59.270 --> 01:33:02.810 health program do you know what that's you're 01:33:02.810 --> 01:33:04.470 the second person who's mentioned that to me 01:33:04.470 --> 01:33:07.090 this week and i'm about to watch something on 01:33:07.090 --> 01:33:09.210 youtube about it someone said to me that's the 01:33:09.210 --> 01:33:11.829 app that's you know changed their world in terms 01:33:11.829 --> 01:33:14.840 of their bag Yeah, no, it saved my career. Literally, 01:33:14.880 --> 01:33:17.420 I hurt my back as a firefighter. And ironically, 01:33:17.520 --> 01:33:20.239 my chiropractor who I paid out of pocket to go 01:33:20.239 --> 01:33:22.579 see because the options for my workman's comp 01:33:22.579 --> 01:33:27.140 was surgery and pain pills. And he had this playing 01:33:27.140 --> 01:33:29.939 in his office. And so I was like, well, what 01:33:29.939 --> 01:33:31.920 is this? Oh, well, you know, there's a free thing 01:33:31.920 --> 01:33:33.800 on YouTube. I want you to do this before you 01:33:33.800 --> 01:33:36.359 come see me every time now. So I started doing 01:33:36.359 --> 01:33:38.859 it and it works so well that I ended up going 01:33:38.859 --> 01:33:40.819 and getting certified and teaching my entire 01:33:40.819 --> 01:33:44.000 fire department. you know this this uh this training 01:33:44.000 --> 01:33:47.220 technique so eric he's trained kelly slater and 01:33:47.220 --> 01:33:50.199 a whole bunch of surfers yeah so uh yeah but 01:33:50.199 --> 01:33:52.859 i mean it it is incredible and ideally for prevention 01:33:52.859 --> 01:33:55.460 but if you are hurt it's a phenomenal backframe 01:33:55.460 --> 01:33:58.840 program too so i highly recommend it i will be 01:33:58.840 --> 01:34:02.579 doing it tonight that's great to hear all right 01:34:02.579 --> 01:34:05.300 so you said the best place to find you know surfers 01:34:05.300 --> 01:34:07.340 on street children is instagram any other places 01:34:07.340 --> 01:34:10.380 for you specifically Yeah, I'm also on Instagram, 01:34:10.659 --> 01:34:15.680 tomhewittmbe on Instagram. And yeah, have a look 01:34:15.680 --> 01:34:19.920 at our website, which is surfnotstreets .org. 01:34:20.560 --> 01:34:22.970 Beautiful. Well, Tom, I want to thank you so 01:34:22.970 --> 01:34:24.949 much. I mean, firstly, the incredible things 01:34:24.949 --> 01:34:26.850 that you and your team are doing. I think it's 01:34:26.850 --> 01:34:29.409 a beautiful blueprint that you don't have to 01:34:29.409 --> 01:34:31.590 be in, you know, South Africa. You could be in 01:34:31.590 --> 01:34:34.210 Orlando or wherever on the planet. You know, 01:34:34.229 --> 01:34:36.970 I think mentorship is absolutely what we need 01:34:36.970 --> 01:34:39.409 at the moment. But I also want to thank you for 01:34:39.409 --> 01:34:41.529 being so generous with your time and coming back 01:34:41.529 --> 01:34:44.649 onto the Behind the Shield podcast today. Oh, 01:34:44.729 --> 01:34:46.409 thanks so much, James. It's a real pleasure. 01:34:46.489 --> 01:34:47.270 Great to be back.