Welcome guys to episode 210 of Behind the Shield
podcast. As always, my name is James Geering,
and it is my honor to introduce this week a man
who I met running a Spartan race. His name is
Monty Montgomery. He is a World War II veteran.
He was 92 years old running the race that I was
running as well with the Operation Enduring Warrior
crew. and is also a retired Miami -Dade firefighter
working in our profession for over three decades.
So as you can imagine, this conversation was
fantastic. From his early years, the end of World
War II, the observation of racism and segregation,
entry into the fire service, the way that's changed,
and then what he and his wife did when they retired,
some incredible stories out of that as well.
So as I always say before we start, please go
to your podcast app, subscribe, but also leave
a rating and feedback. I love seeing what you've
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And then take your social media and help share
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that we have every single week need to be heard
by so many people, and you guys are the key to
helping spread this project. So with that being
said, I introduce to you Monty Montgomery. Enjoy.
All right, well, I want to start at the very
beginning. I'll firstly start by saying thank
you for inviting me to your beautiful home. It
was nice meeting you guys at the race, and I
really appreciate that we were able to do this.
Thank you. It was our pleasure. So very first
question, where were you actually born? In Baltimore,
Maryland. Baltimore. I was delivered at home
by the same doctor that delivered my mother when
she was a baby. Really? Yep. So back then, was
that actual community a small community then?
Well, it was part of Baltimore City itself, but
it was an individual community. It was called
Hamden. And it was just a little different than
the rest of Baltimore. And I grew up there, and
I remember the Maryland Casualty Company had
big land there. As I was growing up, they had
a tree there called the Tarzan tree. I spent
more time as a kid climbing trees and doing things.
And you know how it is with a bunch of boys.
I'm going to do this. You guys, you can't do
that. Some of the things that my mother ever
knew that I did, I got up on top of the walkway
across the bridge. on 40th Street, which is about
50 feet above the railroad track, and walked
along the top of it just to show other kids showing
off. And in fact, when I was in junior high,
the guys had the big iron horse, you know, leather
iron horse, whatever, I forget what you call
it, that you do gymnastics on, and they were
jumping to the chinning bar. And because... I
was so used to climbing trees and jumping and
stuff. Show off me. I said, let me show you how
to do this. So I pushed it back some, which I
could have easily made. But because I was showing
off, just as I jumped. The guy pushed the thing.
And all I did, I just caught the very edge of
it, swung up in the air and came down on the
wooden floor with my head. I had a seven -inch
fracture down there. I broke an eardrum. I had
a blood clot. For years, my lips would, no feeling,
and I'd drink something, and I'd have to be careful
that it didn't run back out. But gradually, you
know, the nerves grow back and so forth. And
I'm almost normal now. It took nine years. Yeah.
Yeah, it's amazing, though, with that story,
when you later on in life became a firefighter
and you see that, just one fraction of a second's
bad decision, whether it's walking out in front
of a car or, you know, it can be life -changing.
We never know where we're going to go. I mean,
you walk out the door and get struck by lightning.
Our friends on another boat, they were just struck.
by lightning a few, what was it, about a year
ago? Really? And they got everything back together,
everything's fixed. Would you believe it or not,
they got struck by lightning again. It's not
supposed to strike in the same place twice, but
it did for them. If it wasn't for bad luck, they
wouldn't have any luck at all. But they have
the health and they have a boat, so there's the
good luck. Absolutely. All right. Then just talking
about where you grew up as well, this is an interesting
observation for someone with several generations
under their belt now. What I have discovered
myself, I grew up on a farm. When I got older,
I'm like, okay, I'm a fireman. I work in inner
cities most of my career. I want to get away
from that. Ultimately, I want to have a piece
of land and get away from people. And then some
very intelligent people kind of made me aware
of the whole tribal element. of humans um the
old old towns and villages in new zealand and
england we had those and then now you know you
have the kind of suburban america where you have
all these sprawling neighborhoods and people
don't spend a lot of time talking to each other
did you did you have that real community in in
the town that you grew up in and have you observed
that kind of essence changing and that you've
oh certainly i remember if you were In trouble
back then, if you did something wrong, your neighbors
let your parents know right away, and you were
in trouble. And the same way with a teacher.
I mean, if I did something wrong in school, my
teacher let my parents know, and I didn't want
to go home. I knew something was going to happen
to me when I got home. But it was a completely
different world back then. It was so different.
And you're right. Talk to neighbors. In fact,
people used to, they had porches in front of
these houses where I lived. And people would
sit out there and they'd have swings or armchairs.
And in the evening they'd sit out there and this
neighbor would talk to that neighbor. And you
just knew everybody in the neighborhood, you
know. Yeah, that seems like it's something that
if we were able to find that again, where I ended
up not finding a mini farm and doing the complete
opposite and moving into a big community in Ocala
where there's a lake and swimming pool and tennis
courts and a football pitch, soccer pitch and
tracks and kids can leave the house, go out on
their bikes, go play all day. When the streetlights
come on, they come home, just like we talk about.
And I see how that has helped. And it's a very
diverse community. and all these kids play together,
all these parents talk to each other when they're
walking their dogs. Is that something that you
think if we found again, it would be a benefit
to our country? Yes, I think it would. We didn't
have any organized games like they have today
where the kids all have their uniforms and everything's
organized and they have coaches. We used to just
get together and we had a game. It was similar
to football. It was kill the guy with the ball.
Whoever got the football the whole game would
try to, you know, chase him down and tackle him,
and he would lose the ball, and somebody else
would get it and start running, and we'd go after
him and so forth. But it was just spontaneous.
You know, we didn't organize it or anything.
And as far as, like, bikes, I used to ride my
bike to school. Because I moved from the neighborhood
where I grew up, and I guess we were about 10
miles away, and I used to get up in the morning
and ride my bike to school. And my grandmother
still lived there, and I used to leave the bike
at her house and then walk the other half mile
down to school. And half the time I was late,
especially after I went past this orchard. I'd
always stop and grab a couple of apples or something.
But they were good days. And, of course, in the
40s, and especially after we got into the war,
soldiers, you know, if they were in uniform and
they got on a streetcar or a taxi cab, they wouldn't
take money. Of course. I wasn't supposed to be
old enough to be in a bar, but if you went in
a bar and a serviceman came in and wanted a drink,
they wouldn't charge. I mean, everything was
for the serviceman. And it was so bad or so terrible,
I thought, when the guys from Vietnam came back.
And no matter how you think about the politics
of the war, those guys were over there and they
suffered and they fought and they went through
hell and they should have got a... reception
like we had with that honor flight. But they
didn't. And my brother, Carol, he was over in
Vietnam three times. And he had some, I don't
remember exactly what happened, but he had some
experiences with people being nasty to him and
so forth. Yeah, well, it's an interesting observation.
The same guy actually had taught me about the
whole community thing. He was also underlying
exactly what you said. So when World War II finished,
and I'd love to talk about that in a little bit,
there were the tick -tape parades. Everyone was
welcomed back as a hero. With Vietnam, who were
drafted as well, people got to remember that.
Most of those men were forced to go over there.
It was the reverse. So with the mental health
side, when you look historically, I believe that...
that comparatively there was so many more problems
post vietnam because there was no demob there
was no way of them processing what they've been
through because not only were they obviously
just like there they were they had a true enemy
they came back here and they were called baby
killers and spat on and you know and it's a horrible
way to treat people that we forced to another
country to go supposedly fight our war yeah and
you know they went in probably thinking the same
way that we did in World War II, that, well,
we'll go over there, you know, we're fighting
for our country, which they really weren't. But
they had that mindset in their head, you know,
and then to come back and be treated like dirt,
it was terrible, terrible. Yeah, and the resistance
to the war, I mean, obviously, We look at some
of our conflicts and realize that there was politics
behind some of them and these men and women should
never have been sent in harm's way in the first
place. But the common thread that I find from
a lot of the members of military that I've interviewed
is once they get over there. and they see some
of the awful things that people are doing in
those countries, then that for them is justifying
it. If they're in Iraq and they're seeing these
stonings and beheadings and awful things, I don't
want to go too much into it, but this lack of
humanity, then they absolutely can justify it.
stopping that and i think that's what people
don't understand is we sit here i mean right
now we're in south florida you know if you'd
never been in the service at all your life would
be amazing and then you get all judgy when people
come back whereas we've asked people to go and
see these horrendous things and um you know put
them in a situation where they have no choice
but to to kill i mean they if you're watching
kids being you know brutalized of course you'd
pull the trigger why wouldn't you Yeah, sometimes
you're just put in a situation that you have
no control of, and whether it looks good or bad
to other people, it's something that you have
no control over and you can't help, and it's
not right that you be judged that way. Absolutely.
I think. Well, going back to your school period,
so when you were younger before World War II
kicked off, especially the American involvement,
What were your career aspirations when you were
before the service? Well, when I was growing
up, I wanted to be, what do you call it, a helmet
diver. I had seen some movies and so forth, and
it looked like it was a lot of fun. And I was
told that... If you don't have perfect teeth,
you can't be a diver. I don't know what that
had to do with it. Just like with you, you know,
you wanted to be a firefighter. And they said
you couldn't be. Well, in the end, I wound up
being a diver and actually even taking, you know,
diving for a living. In fact. I opened the first
dive store up in Norfolk. I moved from Baltimore
to Norfolk after I got out of the Army and started
the first dive club up there. And then after
I left Norfolk and came down here, I got really
into diving. I met her and taught her a little
bit about diving. She couldn't even swim when
I met her. And she claims she still can't swim
without a mask and snorkel, but I don't know.
She does pretty good. But I wound up getting
a job for a while, taking dive trips out. And
I didn't make any money out of it, but in my
mind, it was an exotic kind of a life. And this
is fun. The only thing is that we didn't have
two pennies. Put together, because we only charged
$15. We would take people out, and half the time
I'd have to save them because they would panic
when they came to the surface. And if they had
their own equipment, we only charged them $10.
And I look back and see what these dive boats
are charging people today to take. 30 people
out on a dive trip and they're all paying, I
don't know, it's not any $15, I guarantee you.
But like you were talking about a little while
ago, things change so much, you know. And the
equipment in diving and so forth has changed
so much too. I mean, they wear these inflatables
so that they get in any trouble or panic, they
can inflate it and bring them up. We used to
buy these almost like what you get on an airplane
to put over your head and put a cartridge in
it. And if I had somebody that was starting to
panic and we were not close to the boat, I'd
just squeeze the little trigger thing on it and
inflate it and calm them down and they'd be perfectly
all right as long as they didn't think they were
drowning, you know, which is normal, I mean.
of course. But we didn't have any money. We were
living off of fish and lobster. And Friday, our
landlady, who was Catholic, didn't eat steak
or any meat on Friday. So she would give us,
we looked forward to Friday because we could
have something besides fish and lobster. And
we did eat a lot of liver because that was the
cheapest meat that we could buy. And it was really
tough until I finally got on the fire department.
And I was making $75 a week on the fire department.
And we thought we were in hog heaven. And then,
of course, things got better and better. And
in between all that, I was... Also taking pictures,
because I was a photographer. And I took baby
pictures, which doesn't sound like much, but
it was one of the toughest jobs I ever had. I'm
sure. Oh, you try to keep up with two -year -olds
and keep their mother out of the picture. Oh,
man. And carry two or three strobe lights, a
great big tripod, and a 5x7 camera, because in
those days... Everything was black and white,
and you had these big cameras. And I stayed in
great shape just carrying that stuff around all
day. But after I came down here to Florida and
was taking the dive trips out, the picture taken
sort of died off because there weren't that many
kids. I mean, at that time. It was mostly elderly
people that retired and came to Florida. Nowadays,
I mean, there's kids everywhere. But back then,
and I'd go knocking on doors just trying to get
business. And they used to have all the jealousy
windows, you know, that you open. And you'd be
out there with a tie and coat and everything
trying to look decent. telling people you know
that you're taking pictures in the neighborhood
and they'd open that little jealousy window and
say we're not interested or we got taken last
time and after about an hour or so of this you
feel like next person that comes to the door
acts nasty to me i had a lady one day uh i knocked
on the door And I was going to ask her, you know,
if there was any small children or babies there.
And she had this little dog that come right out
and bit my ankle. Oh, I got so mad, and I started
chasing him down the street. And she said, my
little dog, my little dog. I said, lady, if I
catch him, I'm going to put him in a mousetrap.
She didn't think it was very funny. So you didn't
take a picture on that one. Another time I went
to a trailer park. Once in a while we'd have
trailer parks that we would go to and take pictures
there. And it was really, and this was back in
the 60s, and a lot of them didn't have air conditioning.
And you'd stand up in the trailer, and it was
100 degrees when I'm standing up. Down there
a little bit lower was maybe 80 or livable. But
I knock on this one door and this lady comes
out and her hair's up in curls and she's got
a house coat on. What do you want? I said, are
you Mrs. Jones? She says, no, I'm not. I said,
oh, thank God. Just a couple of little experiences,
you know, along the way. So anyway. I also had
a job working in this dive store on Biscayne
Boulevard in the evenings. I was taking pictures
at a hotel at night, and I was taking dive trips
out during the day, and I worked at this dive
shop in between. And one day this girl comes
in and wanted to use the telephone, and it turns
out she was driving cars all over the country.
and that way she was seeing the country without
having to pay a tourist guide or anything of
that sort. I thought it was pretty smart. And
I invited her out for dinner, and I've never
been able to get rid of her. Beautiful. Well,
you talked about a few things I want to go back
to. Firstly, when you were in Norfolk, did you
ever work with any of the Navy divers, the frogmen
or any of those guys that were? No. No? Okay,
because I know that ultimately became a hub for
the East Coast SEAL teams. That's interesting.
Well, one more thing. There was a swimmer, an
Olympic swimmer, it was in the newspaper that
he was going to swim across Hampton Roads. He
was going to have a martini and swim across Hampton
Roads, nothing to it. And I had rented this little
house and a lot of the... two or three of the
guys that I worked with would come there. And
my partner, he cooked. He was an old guy. He
was 60 years old or so. Of course, I say old.
I was in my 20s then, you know. But it made a
good partnership. He was like my father in a
way. And he would cook these meals, and I'd tell
these other guys, come on down, you know, and
you can pay Tom something for the meal, and it'll
help him, and we'll have something to talk about.
Anyway, we're sitting there talking about this
guy that's going to swim across Hampton Roads,
and I said, well, that's no big deal. I could
do that. Oh, yeah, yeah, and they give me this
hard. I said, all right, I'll do it. So we went
up to the starting point where this guy was going
to go. Jimmy, one of the guys, said, give him
a five -minute start and then go. So I gave him
a five -minute start, and then I took off, and
a guy was supposed to get my boat, which was
anchored on the other side, and bring it around
and be my escort. Well, I'm halfway across in
the middle of Hampton Roads and the channels
with all the big boats going by and stuff. No
boat. I kept, I figured, well, I'll just keep
swimming. So finally, a Coast Guard boat came
by. And the only thing with the Coast Guard boat,
they wanted to get in front of me. And there
was a diesel engine and all these fumes were
coming back. I said, look, you guys. If you get
in back of me, it'd be much nicer. I want to
breathe all these fumes. But I went the rest
of the way. And just about the time I touched
bottom, my boat showed up. Oh, really? Thanks
for that. And what happened, the guy had rented
a ground. And I didn't know that. He didn't say
anything about it that was any problem. But when
I went to go get my boat the next day, it was.
three -quarters sunk because it was a wooden
boat and it loosened the wood slats on the bottom
a little bit. And as it turned out, I had it
fixed and I had insurance on it because I was
still paying for it. And I got a new engine in
it and got it all fixed up. So it worked out
to be a good thing. What do they call it? A blessing
in disguise. A blessing in disguise. I'm trying
to say that. And that was in the Chesapeake Bay,
is that right? Yeah. And you did that swim two
more times after that? Yeah. Well, somebody decided
that that would be a great idea to make a regular
swim. And so I swam it two more times. The second
time, there was a... a bunch of guys from the
Navy that were in that. And the guy that won
was the one that was in charge of teaching people
how to recover out of a plane, you know, when
it went under water and so forth. And he was
a hell of a guy, I'll tell you. When I finally
got to the beach and walked up, there he is sitting
in the chair. where the lifeguard was smoking
a cigar. I mean, the guy was great. I mean, you
know, I never would train swimmer or anything
like that. I just loved the water and, you know,
learned to swim myself and so forth. But he was
a champion college swimmer before this all started.
But then the third time. I almost didn't get
in because I hadn't been practicing, hadn't been
in the water, and the business was kind of dropping
off, and I wasn't making much money and didn't
have enough time to spend in the water. But I
was going to get in anyway, so I got in, and
I made it across there. When I got to the beach,
I laid down there. I was so tired and exhausted.
I just hit that beach and laid down. Next thing
I know, there's the paramedics there. They thought
I'd passed out. Get out of here. I'm all right.
But that was just one of those stories. Brilliant.
Now I want to go back to the other thing as well.
So you talked about riding your bike to school
and, you know, picking apples off the tree on
the way. Overall, when you were young, what was
the diet like? I mean, as far as had they started
manufacturing and processing yet? No, no, you
had good food back then. Okay, and what about
obesity rates? How did everyone look back then?
You know, when I look back, I don't remember
a whole lot of fat people. I remember there was
a lady down the street, and she was really fat.
But that was such an unusual thing. And if you
look at some of the movies from back in the 40s,
like, I don't mean, well, the movies as well
as the documentaries, like when all the people
were greeting the soldiers coming back, and you
look at the crowd, you don't see any people that
are obese or anything. But we didn't have all
this stuff that they put in our foods today.
And, of course, who knows what we're breeding
either. Yeah, especially when you get more congested,
like Miami area and Los Angeles. Oh, yeah. At
least they've cut down on the emissions from
a lot of these cars. But when I was with Opelika,
we not only had to put out fires and so forth,
but we had to inspect cars. And these cars would
come through there smoking and fumes were in
there. It's a wonder I didn't die of suffocation
or something. Of course, we didn't have to stay
there the whole time. We'd take turns. You'd
go out for a couple hours and this guy would
go out for a couple hours and so forth. But it
was pretty bad. And I'm glad that part was over.
Didn't want anything to do with inspecting cars.
They finally stopped inspecting them. And mostly
today, you don't really see any. These old jalopies
that are smoking and all rusted apart and so
forth. Except the old car that we had ourselves.
And that wasn't smoking. In fact, we had this
19... What year was that in these? 64, yeah.
Plymouth Valiant. with a slant six engine. And
it was getting pretty damn rusty, and it looked
pretty bad. And I remember when I made lieutenant,
I was in the training. Whenever you make lieutenant,
you have to go down and help the recruits in
training. And they had brought in a whole bunch,
well, I'd say about five or six cars from the
junkyard so the guys could practice. Using the
jaws of life and that sort of thing. Well, I
go to work this morning. Guy's going to run up.
Money, money, money. They got a Plymouth Vian
over here. It looks better than yours. I'm going
to switch it out. But the engine and that thing
have just purred. The day that we sold it to
this girl that wanted to use it to go to college.
And as it drove away, that engine just purred.
And I just couldn't believe how that engine ran
so well all those years, and the body was just
falling apart. I even fiberglassed the floor
so that you didn't put your foot through it.
Brilliant. Well, you talked about coming home
from the war. So from school age, what led you
in? Were you drafted? Did you volunteer? enlist
in the Navy. I thought maybe I can get in, they
didn't call them SEALs then, but into the UDT
thing. Well, the first test they gave me was
the colorblind test, I think. I didn't pass that.
So I just waited until they drafted me. I got
a letter from President Roosevelt said that My
friends and neighbors have selected me to represent
them in the Armed Forces of the United States.
Please report for duty. Thanks, friends and neighbors.
So you joined the Army then, you said? Yeah.
Okay, and then how long did you train and where
were you deployed to? Well, they sent me down
to Camp Fanning, Texas, and that's near Kilgore,
Texas, if anybody ever heard of it. And I'm assuming
that they were training me to go to the Pacific
because actually the war in Europe was over,
but we were still fighting in the Pacific, and
we knew that the Japs weren't going to just quit.
So they were giving me all this training, mostly
I would assume jungle training. And then when
I was in KP one day, There was a big hullabaloo
and I find out what the hell it is. They said
they dropped a bomb in Japan. It wiped out a
whole city. Oh, come on. A whole city, one bomb.
You know, I didn't believe. But that was the
thing that probably saved me. I don't know if
it saved me because I might have survived. But
if it hadn't been for that, I know I would have
been fighting the Japanese in the Pacific. But
anyway, because of that, they sent me over to
Europe with the occupation forces. And that's
where I spent my overseas time in Germany. So
the conflict had finished. You were there just
to kind of transition the country back to normality.
Yeah, basically. And how did that look? What
kind of role did you have when you were doing
that? Well, I was a photographer. And mostly
just small things like Joe Blow makes Sargent,
so he takes a picture of this guy and sends it
to his hometown newspaper, you know. And then
one time we had a resort up on top of the mountain
in Zooks Pits, and something happened. The train
derailed or something, and they were... No contact
with them except maybe radio, I don't know, for
about a week. And so they sent me and a correspondent
and a guy that did cartoons and stuff up there
to see what happened. Well, we got up there,
and these guys, they had a ball. I mean, everything
was there at the resort, and they were drinking
and shacking up with the girls and having parties,
and everybody was... thinking, you know, we're
going to go up there and find that they didn't
have enough to eat or they were having a hard
time. And they had nothing but a ball. But that
was one of the assignments that I had. And then
when they decided that dependents of firefighters
or it was officers first would come overseas
because they never had let dependents come over.
And then I was assigned to take some pictures
of some of the dependents and send them back
and so forth. And that job kind of fizzled out
for a while, and then they sent me to Karlsruhe,
where I was working in this train station where
we fed the troops as they went through. And about
all I did, if they were... Going on furlough,
like to Switzerland or someplace, then they had
to pay for the meal, which was a quarter, or
one mark, which was 25 cents. So I was in charge
of taking care of the money, and some of them
would pay in Swiss francs, and some of them would
pay in French francs, and German marks, and I
had to take care of it and make sure that...
All the money was there, and the right money
was there, you know, from each country. And other
than that, we just had some great meals there
because we were, you know, taking care of the
troops. And I remember the sergeant that was
in charge, almost every day we'd have steak and
eggs that he would order up. And if we ordered
them, we got it too. So that worked out great.
But other than that, you know, we just took care
of the troops and made sure that they were fed
and that they got back on the train in time and
that sort of thing. And let's see. Where did
I go after that? They sent me down to Ingolstadt.
And I was only there for a short time, and then
I got my orders to come home. Okay. And what
year did you get out of the military? Of 47.
Okay. May of 47, I think, was on my discharge.
All right. And that was when you did the diving
and the baby photography and all that stuff after?
Oh, yeah. Okay. So then let's walk us through.
the fire service. I know we talked a bit before
we started recording. When did you decide that
you wanted to be a firefighter, and then how
was your entry into the profession? Well, as
I was talking before about diving and so forth,
I thought, boy, if I ever get to Florida, clear
water and so forth. Well, this company that I
worked for decided to send somebody down to Florida,
and I was one of the ones that they wanted to
send down. I thought, No matter what, I'm not
going back. And so we struggled. Like I say,
there weren't a lot of babies to take pictures
of down here. At that time, they were mostly
all retired people and so forth. And I met some
of the divers. That were local and became pretty
good friends with them. And they were telling
me, hey, we're on the fire department. And, you
know, tomorrow maybe we'll get a little bit of
rest if we don't get any calls or anything. And
I'm finding out more and more about the fire
department. I thought, hey, I got to get on the
fire department. And then if I have a day off,
I can go diving with these guys and so forth.
I started applying for the different departments,
and I was either too old or I was too skinny
or colorblind or something. I don't know. And
I was trying every trick in the book. Like I
say, I put a weight belt on. I didn't have any
stomach at all. Pictures of me, like, it's caved
in here. So I could put a shirt on over top of
a weight belt, and you couldn't even see it.
So just trying to tip the scales to match their
minimum weight. And finally, Opelika had the
oldest age limit. I think it was 35. And I just
made it under the bar there and I got on Opelika.
And then I was on there until from 63 to 72 and
the county took it over. And that was the best
thing that ever happened to me. And when you
first started your career, what were your shift
cycles? I think we had... One day on and one
day off, didn't we? No, because when they came
along with the idea that you got a C date, I
thought, oh, man, this can't be true. Another
day off? See, this is interesting because now,
you know, the 2448s, I don't know if you know,
but Boca up the road here does 2472s. And with
the call volume that they have now. I mean, they're
running 24 hours straight, a lot of these inner
city departments, and they're realizing now that
even the 48, and I'm doing air quotes because
people say two days off, it's not really, but
that even that is not sufficient to recover from
every single shift being awake all night. So
speaking of that, what did your 24 hours look
like when you first started? Were you running
a lot, or was it more like we hear about the
quieter days? Well, of course, when you first
get on, I'd been already on the other fire department
on Opelika, but nonetheless, when I came to the
county, I was new to them anyway. And what they
do is wherever they have a vacancy, maybe somebody's
out sick or something like that, you go here,
you go to there. I went one time from Station
21, they sent me there, which is right at Baker's
Hall over, all the way down to Homestead in the
same day and back. But finally, it works on the
system of seniority. seniority of your rank.
I mean, they have a seniority list for the firefighter
and for the lieutenant captain. Well, you're
familiar, probably. But finally, when I had enough
seniority, I bid the station at Baker's Hall
over, which is right on the water. And I thought,
this is my place, you know, on the water, because
water rescue is what I really wanted to be in.
And so I was very happy there, although I didn't
have that many water rescues, because The lifeguards
got most of the water rescues. But on the other
side, on the bay side, once in a while there'd
be a boat that was capsized or a car would go
into the canal or something like that. And so
I really didn't get that many. But it was a great
place to work anyhow. We used to have, well,
I shouldn't even say this, but we used to call
it water rescue, and I'd go outside the station
and dive around there and pick up some lobster
and bring it in, and I kept the captain happy.
I'd give him a couple lobsters, and we'd have
some for ourselves. And we actually did. It was
practice, you know. We would practice diving
and so forth, especially me. And another thing,
at Station 21, I decided that it wasn't that
far I'd start riding my bike to work. And it
was about 18 miles. So I told Nisi, I said, I'm
going to ride my bike to work. And I got a five
-gallon bucket. And I got some bungee cord and
put it on the back, put my uniform and everything
in there. And I got up around 5 o 'clock in the
morning and had to be there by 7. And I get there
just a little bit early, just enough to run in
the shower and put my uniform on and ready for
work. And sometimes I get there early enough,
I'd go for a little run. And one of the guys
that I worked with, he was slightly diabetic.
And I talked him into running. And so we would
have time sometimes in the morning and we would
run it. And his diabetic, I mean, he wasn't really
diabetic, but he was on the first. He said that
the doctor told him that he was so much better
now that he's been running and so forth. And
so he was real happy with that. And then I met
this other firefighter. Name is Andy Sendry.
And he was a complete athlete. And he heard that
I was a diver. And he was a diver. And we went
to Bimini together. And it was like the gunfight
at the... Okay, Corral. Okay, Corral, yeah, where
I'd be diving in 30 feet and going down to the
bottom and looking around. He'd go down 30 feet,
and then we'd go out further, and we're down
at 40 feet, and then we're down at 60 feet. And
we decided that both of us were about the same,
but we would get together, and he'd try to figure
out. Something that the other guy couldn't do.
Well, I remember one day he put the ladder up.
And instead of climbing the ladder, we got on
the inside of the ladder and pulling yourself
up rung by rung. And then he got me into running
because he was really into running a lot. He
did a lot of 10Ks and even barathons and stuff.
He did the Ironman in Hawaii. Yes, he did the
Ironman in Hawaii. Oh, really? Yeah. He's an
incredible athlete, really. Wow. And that's the
funny part. He thinks I'm good, but I could never
keep up with him. Of course, he is a little bit
younger than me, but anyway, he got me into running,
and pretty soon somebody suggested that we try
to do a 10K. And I thought, well, you know. I'll
try. If I can't make it, I'll walk or something.
And it worked out pretty good. I did 10K. And
then we started looking around, doing 10Ks. And
then it became two or three of us at this stage.
And somebody said, think we could do a marathon?
And I'm thinking of the marathon, 26 miles. I
don't know. And from somewhere. or somebody,
they gave me this book, I don't know whatever
happened to it, telling you how to train for
a marathon. And it worked. I trained just according
to this book, and I got in the Orange Bowl Marathon.
I didn't set any records, maybe for being slow,
but at least I finished it. And right at the
end, I remember that we had maybe a half a mile
to go, and I was really tired. I started to walk
a little bit, and there was this girl there.
All I know is she said her name was Karen. That's
all I know about her. But she had headphones
and stuff, and she was playing Rocky. Anyway.
With that song and her, we just took off and
we made it. I don't know what that's all about.
I mean, we're leading through all these different
things. It's probably coming up from the surface
from somewhere. So was that, I mean, you're emotional
now. Was that a huge achievement for you in the
life journey then to finish that marathon? Oh,
yeah. I never thought in my life I'd... Run 26
miles. Especially when you couldn't even eat
because half your face wasn't working when you
were seven. So that's a hell of a journey from
there. It was quite an achievement. After that,
I didn't see my 10Ks were so much easier. But
the thing of it is, I started running again because
I wore my knees out doing triathlons and running
10Ks and stuff. And so I decided to get... Especially
the one knee. I got that done. Then a few years
later, I got the other one done. And when you
get your new knees, they tell you, you're not
supposed to run. You're not supposed to ski.
You're not supposed to jump. You're not supposed
to do this. And I said to the doctor, why do
you think I had my knees done? You don't want
me to do anything. Really took it easy for a
while, and I didn't run. I didn't do anything.
I thought, the heck with it. And especially lately
when I decided to do this Spartan thing, I thought,
you know, I'm 90. I was 91 then. I'm 91 now.
If these things last 10 years, I'll be 101. I
probably won't be doing this kind of stuff anymore.
I don't know. Maybe I will. But I'm going to
start running on it. So I started running again,
and I couldn't run at all. It seemed like I'd
run a couple hundred yards, and I'd be out of
breath. So I got my ankle weights that I'd had
for a long time, and I put them on. And there's
a little park over here, and I put the ankle
weights on and ran around there. And then when
I come into the Y, we run around the gym there.
you know, four or five times. And I had a hard
time keeping up with some of these girls in this
class. It's almost all women except for about
two guys. And they make me look like a wimp.
It's embarrassing. But gradually I found out
that, you know, I can run. In fact... The other
day when I went there, I suddenly got this spurt
of energy. I don't know where it came from. And
I took off and I was running past everybody.
It didn't last too long. And suddenly it came
to an abrupt end and I was out of breath. But
it came out of nowhere. And I just felt like
the old self, you know, like nothing to it. But
it doesn't last like that. Now, how long ago
did you have the knees done? This last one was
right before we took that cruise, wasn't it?
How long ago was that? It would have been at
least 2016. Okay, so somewhere. Yeah. Right.
So when we met, it was the Spartan race in West
Palm, wasn't it? By Boca. Yeah. And that was
a 5K, basically, but not 5K running, up and down
and climbing obstacles and through water. And
that really struck me because it wasn't, like
you said, it wasn't listening to, let's just
say, poor medical advice where, yeah, we're going
to fix your knees and then that way you'll be
able to sit nicely for the rest of your life.
You said, why would you get your knees done if
you weren't going to move? What has your mindset
been as far as aging? Because, I mean, everything
I've seen that you've done this last, let's say,
three decades seems to be... Not ignoring aging,
but just ignoring what we see now as the calibration
of aging, which is, oh, well, I'm 45. No wonder
my knees are shot and I'm on blood pressure medication.
So what's your mindset every day as far as the
aging process? I never really thought about it
unless somebody brought the subject up. And then
I'd kid about it. I would say, where are you,
young whippersnappers? I'd put on a little bit
of an act, but I never really think about it.
I've always liked challenges. Somebody tell me
that I can't do it, then I'm going to do it,
or I'm going to die trying. And most of my friends
were in their 40s and 50s. I never really thought
about, you know, old people, you know. They're
old people, these guys. I'm not one of them.
I'm one of these young guys. And that's sort
of my mindset, I think. We, how did I describe?
Oh, my daughter was having a party and she invited
us. And Niecy said, would it be all right if
we bring some of our friends to the party? And
my daughter says, yeah, that's fine. Afterwards,
my daughter says, Mom, I should call it to her.
She says, your friends are at the same age as
my friends. And it was true. I mean, most of
them were pretty young. Most of the people that
I dive with and stuff were much younger. And
we do have some older friends, too. We have some
friends, the ones that just had lightning strike
their boat. They've lived on their boat for who
knows when, what, 25 years? Yeah. But when I
retired from the fire department, we bought a
trawler. And we took off. For 16 years, we lived
on it. That was good for staying in shape, too,
because in the Bahamas, I'd just get up in the
morning, run to the back of the boat and jump
in, swim around this little island, and then
come back and do some push -ups and pull -ups
on the back of the boat. And we had some buckets
always on the boat, and we'd fill them with water
and then do curls with a bucket of water. And
before you even have your coffee, and I mean,
then you're ready to go. You jump in the dinghy
and you go out and you're diving all day, shooting
fish and picking up lobster and conch and that
sort of thing. I mean, the kind of vacation that
people would pay a million dollars for. We were
living it up. I go back to the fire station and
these guys would say, oh, money. You're living
the life. I'd love to do that. But my wife, she
wouldn't leave the shopping malls. Or my wife
gets seasick. She can't stand boats. And they're
so depressed over the fact that I'm having all
this fun. Not depressed, but they're jealous
of what they'd like to do, too. And it really
was a great life. I didn't want to stop. She's
had fibromyalgia, and she had a problem with
her hip, finally got her hip replaced. And she
just couldn't, you know, handle the boat that
much anymore. She was the one that drove the
boat most of the time, where it looked like it.
We'd have it on autopilot, but we'd have to sit
there, you know, and she'd be sitting there like
she's driving away. Well, she's better at getting
the red and green. buoys in the right side, whereas
I had a little trouble. At least they had a different
design. I mean, one of them was a triangle and
the other was sort of a different shape. But
as far as the colors, some of them would just
be a stick, you know, with a different color
on it. And she's very good at that, not being
colorblind. Well, it's interesting as well you
say about the boat because most people's aspirations
that live in normal suburban life is to once,
you know, maybe the anniversary or a special
birthday, they'll go and get lobster, you know,
and there you were jumping off the back of a
boat, you know, eating this amazing food and,
you know, therefore it was paying off, you know,
like you said, you're exercising. And fresh air.
Yeah, exactly. And we've kind of walled ourselves
into ill health a lot of times. And then, like
we said before, then you add in the poisoning
of our food and the abuse of the meat that we
end up eating. And the answer is so blatantly
simple. It's just going back to what your parents
did, what they ate and how they farmed. I think
that would solve a huge amount of the issues
that we see. Well, our friends from Australia
used to come over and spend it. a couple months
in the Bahamas with us. And it was like going
back to nature. I think he liked to hunt and
stuff anyway. But we were living like living
off the land, only we were living off the sea.
We'd get up in the morning and after the swim
and exercise stuff, when we'd go out, we'd dive
all day and we'd bring back some fish and stuff.
And we would have... that for dinner but meantime
we'd sit up on the bow of the boat and a lot
of times she would make this lobster dip and
a cold beer and lobster dip after time i mean
it doesn't get any better than that now with
the transition from the fire so you were actually
68 when you retired yeah i was the oldest guy
on the fire department okay so before we even
talk about retirement so again what What kept
you there so long? What kept you able to function
well as a firefighter at that age? Well, I just
did the same thing I always did. And I rode my
bike to work every day. And we could get exercise.
Right there at Baker's Hall over where we had
that station, we would get off and Andy Sendry
and I would go to the beach. And there was a
Vita course there. And, you know, I guess you're
familiar with them. You know, you do the first
couple of exercises, which are just sort of warm
-up and stretching and stuff. And then you get
into push -ups and pull -ups and that sort of
thing. And then we go for a swim. And then I
jump on my bike and go home. And he'd jump on
his bike and go home. And then I had a little
fiberglass shop. And I'd go over there and I'd
be hand sanding and lifted because it was just
me by myself and had to do everything. And so
I, you know, basically stayed in pretty good
shape. And so I just kept doing the same things
that I always did. She's got people coming to
cut the lawn and stuff. I said, what's the matter?
I can cut the lawn for you if you want. I mean,
I'm not helpless anymore just because I'm 90.
Well, speaking of that, so you were 68 when you
left. One of the things that I talk about a lot
here is sleep deprivation and us being up all
night. Did you notice a big difference the following
year, say after you retired, when you actually
got to be in your own bed every night? Not really,
because as soon as I retired, we jumped on that
boat and we would be over in the Bahamas or someplace.
When you're on that boat all day or you're swimming
all day or diving all day, at 8 o 'clock you
can't keep your eyes open anymore. So I slept
pretty good. And although we had an air conditioner
on there, if we had the hatch open, there was
usually a nice breeze and we'd actually have
to have a sheet over top of us. You know, not
a blanket or anything, but I mean, it was just
like a perfect temperature. Right. But as far
as your... your your sense of well -being you
were you were sleeping well now versus one eye
open with the tones about to go off did you did
you find that your health improved even more
after you got to get away from the alarms in
the station i'd say Oh, I got more exercise because,
you know, I could exercise all day. You don't
realize you're exercising because you're having
fun. That's what I've said about people. How
do you stay in shape? Because I've been diving
my whole life and I didn't realize I was exercising.
I thought I was having fun. And it's true. If
you're doing something that you like. Andy, he
loves to run. And for no other reason, he can
find an excuse to go running. And he got me into
it, and I wasn't quite like him. But I did get
to the point where I enjoyed going for a run,
but I didn't go out of my way to do it. I'd get
up in the morning and run down to maybe Hollywood
Boulevard and back, and it would just get all
the blood circulating and everything, and you
really feel like you're ready to go for the day.
Now what about, we're going back to the fire
service for a moment, What was the fitness standards?
Where was the bar held? Because I know we've
had, at Hialeah, we talked about my first department.
They set the bar so high. They beat the hell
out of us when we were in the orientation there.
But then there's other departments now where
they fight very hard against their administration,
sometimes even their own union, for even an annual.
physical test you know people don't want to take
a physical because it finds out wrong yeah well
not even just the medical but the physical like
it's unfair to ask me to to have to drag a hose
and climb five floors you know and it's it's
ridiculous so but it's a challenge exactly yes
and that's the thing i can see with you it's
pride you know and it's like you said it's the
competitive nature which i think it should be
in all of us but in your career at metro date
and the department before what did they nurture
that fitness where most people in pretty great
shape well right now they they have a pretty
good fitness program i'd like to go down there
and see what it's like because it's a friend
of mine that's running it but uh when i got on
i got on you know obelaka like i say it was just
a little department and about all it consisted
of was running like 100 yards in less than 20
minutes i remember the day that i ran and i had
my i didn't have any running shoes and uh one
of the guys that was there he ran first i said
can i borrow your shoes the running shoes the
same size and i used his shoes to run and then
uh they took us over to the pool and they wanted
us to do i remember doing sit -ups, and you're
supposed to do like 20 sit -ups or something.
I said, do I get extra points if I do more? I
said, I'll do another 20 or 30 if you want. No,
that's enough, that's enough. And this morning,
it was ice cold. One of those days when the temperature
goes down, it must have been 40 degrees, and
I didn't really want to go in that water. I mean,
I love the water, but not when it's ice cold.
But I had to swim in the water. And because there
was, I think, 15 or 20 people that came that
they try out. And I'd say that at least 12 of
them left when they found out that they had to
go in that water. And I felt like leaving, but
I thought, I need this job. And I jumped in there.
Did the swim, which was nothing. I mean, if it
had been warm water, I would have been playing.
But I had to swim underwater, which that was
the easiest part, and just swim up and down a
couple times. And that's about all there was
to it, you know, because it was a small department.
They didn't have any real training program. They
didn't have a tower to climb up and pull hoes
or anything of that sort. taught me how to drive
the fire truck. There was some warehouses right
there near the fire station, and we'd take the
fire truck over there and practice backing up
and going forward and so forth. And there'd be
three guys on a shift. There was two fire trucks
and a rescue. We had a call. We each got in a
different vehicle and went out. And this was
after doing... doing the auto inspections. We
put all the money and stuff away real fast, jump
in the trucks and go to wherever the call was,
put the fire out or treat the victim, whatever,
and then come back and inspect cars again. One
of the reasons why I reached out to Dominic Barbera
is he was one of the first. medics that we had.
So what was that like for you guys going from
primarily fire to transitioning to the EMS stuff
as well? Well, all we had in Opelika was first
aid. And we would, anything that we couldn't
do, we called rescue. I mean, we called the ambulance
and the ambulance would come and so forth. But,
you know, we had first aid equipment. I mean,
somebody had a big cut or something. We bandaged
it up and that sort of thing. But the EMT and
the paramedic thing, they never got into that
until I got onto the Dade County Fire Department.
And then when I was on that department, on the
Dade County, They told me and several other guys,
you guys are going to go into training. You're
going to do the EMT -2. It was called EMT -1
and EMT -2, which now is called paramedic. And
this friend of mine, Bill Maloney, who passed
away since then, we were studying charts on different
heart rhythms, you know, and that sort of thing.
But about the time that I got through with the
course, I got a chance to bid a station because
I had enough seniority by then. And then I bid
this station and I was on an engine. So I never
used anything but the EMT stuff. No, I never
got into the paramedics. And I was really a little
afraid of it anyway because I went on a call.
Even this was in Opelika. And when I pulled up
on the scene, oh, my God, look at all that blood
and stuff. turned out it was green paint brilliant
yeah because that's like i said that's what brought
me to dominic barbera who came on the show and
sadly passed away recently um but yeah i mean
to to see that i mean obviously he went very
strongly into the the paramedic side and like
he worked rescue his his whole career didn't
he i believe or at least for a large part um
and uh Yeah, it's crazy when I hear my generation,
I've been on 15 years and even younger, kind
of beating their chest and saying, oh, I just
want to do the fire stuff. And it's like, well,
I'm sorry, you entered a fire service where EMS
is integrated. And I always give the example
that you pull someone out of a fire and you lay
them on the front lawn. Now what? If you've got
no medical training, then you're kind of useless.
So it's exciting now. to see where it is. But
it must have been very interesting being anywhere
that was purely fire and then having the EMS
stuff, you know, slowly filter in. Well, I know
that if I was a victim, I would rather have a
paramedic attended to me than a doctor because
most of these doctors want to sit in their office
and prescribe pills or something of that sort.
When it comes to emergency, they're not equipped
for emergencies. They don't even know. I mean,
there are emergency doctors. The guys that are
at the hospital in the emergency room, I mean,
they're really good. But these guys that are
paramedics, I mean, they get so much training
that in case of emergency, they're just as well,
just as good, and I think better. than the average
doctor would be. Don't you think so? I do. I
had an example of that. And it's funny, this
afternoon I'm going to interview a pediatric
emergency physician who is amazing. He actually
is the medical director for Coral Springs and
the Parkland area fire departments. And I've
had other ones that are in a similar position.
And like you said, I would want them working
on my family any day of the week. But the other
people under the doctor umbrella, I was on a
plane and a gentleman collapsed and they kind
of did the hierarchy announcement. Is there a
doctor on the plane? Is there a nurse? And they
finally got down to paramedic. It was several
job descriptions later. And so I came along and
there's like three or four people hunched around
this person telling each other how important
they were. One guy taking a blood pressure, not
even using a stethoscope, just using the cuff
and holding the wrist. And then they all kind
of went away. And I said to the stewardess, I'm
like, would you mind if I assess this guy from
the beginning? And I ended up sitting with him
the rest of the flight. But it was just observing.
They had no sense. I don't mean that in a mean
way, but they had no experience assessing an
emergency. So they may be amazing chiropodists
or, you know, whatever their speciality was.
But, yeah, when it comes to emergency medicine.
The EMTs and the medics and then the ER physicians
and nurses are a completely different breed than
the rest of the medical community. I remember
one day at the fire station, I got something
caught in my throat and I start coughing and
sort of choking. And I thought... Damn, I better
run outside. These guys are going to cry me.
I didn't want them to practice on me. Start heimlicking
the hell out of you. All right. Well, I know
we've been going almost an hour and a half, and
I want to be mindful of your time. So I want
to transition to a couple of closing questions
I like to ask everyone. But before I do that,
I've got one extra question for you. You did
the Spartan Race with me. We were lucky enough
to run side by side, and I'm so glad because
we got to meet with the Operation Enduring Warrior
and the GIVE team and all those other great organizations
that we're running. You have done skydiving recently,
is that right? Or you're about to do one with
Jonathan? That's what my daughter said. I did
a tandem jump. I just thought it would be nice
to do something special like for my birthday.
It turned out that I didn't do it on my birthday.
Seventy -third, okay. And it looked like it would
be fun. So I went. And, of course, it's not the
same as being a skydiver, you know, jumping out
on your own and so forth. I went with a guy,
and he didn't look like he was suicidal. And
we had a good time. I forgot. In fact, I don't
know if I would have made it if it was on my
own because I forgot to pull a ripcord. He was
going like this. The guy was taking a picture
there, another sky. And I was having so much
fun and smiling and my cheeks are flapping up
and down. I mean, it's hilarious when you see
the movie and my cheeks are going. But he finally
pulled the ripcord himself and everything was
all right. But he probably has the same problem
with other people that he takes up. To him, I
was thinking. It's similar to when I take people
out diving, and they're having a good time or
something, but they forget about certain things
that they've got to do or shouldn't do, and you
just have to watch them. Reel them in. And he
was kind of watching me, looking out for me.
Especially as he was attached to you. Yeah. It's
a weird thing. I did a skydive in New Zealand,
actually, in Tapao, I think. Where? Tapao. I
think it was Tupau, T -A -U -P -A -U. Oh, Taupo.
Oh, Taupo. You didn't understand because I said
it completely wrong. Lake Taupo. Lake Taupo,
that's right. Beautiful. And I'm not going to
lie. I consider myself somewhat brave. I was
terrified before that and finally got up there.
I'll never forget because when we were in a tandem.
they're sitting on the plane about to jump out
you're not even touching the plane anymore you're
strapped to them like a baby in a harness that
is the most bizarre feeling but when i hit the
ground i was literally ready to sign up to become
an instructor that that fear of the unknown was
what i was scared of and and the the experience
was so much fun so yeah it was it was to me it
was similar to diving because with that amount
of airflow it was like being in the water i could
do the same thing in the air that I could do
in the water, whereas normally that wouldn't
make any difference. But that pressure, you know,
and I was getting a really big kick out of it.
It was so much fun. But you almost forget about
the fact that you're falling. The ground's coming
down. Because Jonathan Lopez was talking about
trying to get you up there again. Yeah, I know.
Is that something that you're thinking of doing?
I don't have to commit on the microphone right
now. I don't know. At my age, that's one thing
about being old. You don't have too much to lose.
My grandmother, I remember the first time she
got on an airplane, she was 80 years old. This
was her first flight, and somebody asked her,
aren't you afraid, a little afraid of going on
an airplane? She says, I'm 80 years old now,
so I don't have anything. to worry about it's
a good way of looking at it like we talked about
though with the whole calibration thing my grandmother's
about to turn 102 my granddad actually got cancer
at 99 and the bizarre thing was the doctor said
physiologically he was so young that it spread
through him like a younger person so i think
normally in the elderly it doesn't spread very
fast um so i think without the cancer he'd probably
made it several more years but it's so funny
because you talk about the younger friends And
they lived in this, you know, little English
street. And we'd ask them, you know, is it nice?
And they'd go, yeah, it's okay, but it's just
full of old people. And these, quote, unquote,
old people would be like 20 years younger than
they were. But, again, it's that mindset. That's
what a lot of people, when they move, like, to
assisted living or something like that, that's
the first thing they say is, oh, there's nothing
but a bunch of old people there. yeah exactly
well then speaking of that and so so skydiving
or not is there anything on your list because
you just finished the spartan race the other
day that you want to do next well it seemed like
about the only thing left is base jumping and
it doesn't That's a little scary looking to me.
I don't think you can get distracted when you're
bass jumping. No. I wouldn't bring the cameraman
with you on that one. No, I don't think I've
even got a cameraman to go. I don't know if I'd
ever get to that or not. Maybe I can figure something
else. But it's just that when you reach a certain
milestone in your life, doing something a little
bit different, I think. You know, like maybe
when you're turning 50 the first time, you ride
a motorcycle or something of that sort. In fact,
that happened to my mother when she was 80. Who
was it that took her for a motorcycle ride and
she enjoyed it? My mother was, she was quite,
Easy to, I mean, she would like challenges herself.
I mean, she didn't talk about it much or anything,
but if there was a challenge that she could do,
she probably would do it. Brilliant. And I think
that's the thing, is like I was saying, with
my fear of skydiving, which I was, what was I,
27 when I finally did? But what a horrible feeling.
to have never done something because you were
scared and then finally try it when you were
60 70 80 and then realize that you love it and
you could have been doing it for for decades
well it'd be quite expensive to be doing it for
decades yeah that's true now one more thing before
we go to the closing question i meant to ask
you way back when we were talking about coming
back from the war and this is purely a selfish
question for me education wise but a big core
of this podcast is spreading the compassion and
kindness and people's powerful stories and solutions
to some of the problems, whether it's food or
medicine. But one thing that baffles me, and
I haven't really had many people that could answer
this because they weren't there then, is how
we went from, as a nation, and this is England
too, so not just picking on America, a war where
we were fighting predominantly to protect...
a different religion a lot of the the jewish
people were fighting alongside all these different
nationalities how we found ourselves in certain
areas in the 50s with so much prejudice and racism
what would did you did you witnessing that with
your own eyes see how that came about or was
it just the the minority got so much you know
well growing up i was very aware of it but uh
In the Army, we had a couple of black guys that
were just another guy, like on the fire department.
I mean, Joe Blow and this guy and that guy were
all in this together. They're no different than
me, except maybe he's a little darker than I
am or I'm a little whiter than he is or so forth.
But I remember at the... which was the public
relations office that we worked in where I was
a photographer, and a couple of correspondents
there. And they were just sitting around talking
one day. And one of them said, you know, it's
a funny thing. He says, you know, like all, and
these guys have been all through the war, and
not like me. I just got over. He said, you know.
The Italians and the Irish and the Jewish and
all. We were all buddies over here fighting together
and saving each other. And what about the black
people? But I was taught as a child, though,
you know, to treat everybody the same. But I
could see that it wasn't done. You know, it wasn't
that way. And, you know, you've got to. Remember,
I'm from the 20s and 30s when they used to have
signs, black here, whites here. And when I went
to Norfolk, I mean, that was back in the 50s
and 60s after the war. They would still try to
make the blacks go to the back of the bus and
whites in the front and so forth. And of course,
that's when it all... Really, as you say, shit
hit the fan because President Kennedy started
the whole thing as far as segregation in the
schools and everything else. And there was, well...
In Alabama and Mississippi and those places where
people were actually being murdered, you know,
just for standing up for what they believed in.
It was a pretty terrible time. Yeah, but that's
what I have so much, you know, so many problems
understanding is, like you said, you stand side
by side with people of all colors and creeds
and you fight what truly at that time was evil.
I mean, you know, no one can argue that. And
then you come back to America, England, and then
you're lynching people. And we had the same.
We had the, what was it called, the wind? I forget
the name now. There was this famous ship that
first brought people from, I think it was the
islands, Jamaica, I think, to England. And there
was a big opposition to that. And I don't understand
how you can go through hell. side by side with
these people and the same with the fire service
especially when we're wearing our gear you can't
tell what sex color creed we are but then be
so in you know inherently racist to the point
where you would kill just years after these people
have you know protected your country and you
fought alongside them maybe it's not the people
that were ever fighting alongside actually did
that but to the next worst thing is to stand
by and let it happen So, yeah, as a younger person,
my granddad was in World War II, I'm trying to
figure out how we got to that point. Yeah, but
I think really, though, it helped in a way because
I know a lot of Italians and Irish after the
war. you go see your buddy and he's Italian,
but your sister likes this guy. And, you know,
they get married. And I think except for the
blacks, it seemed like there was always this
prejudice against blacks. But as far as like
the Italians and the Irish and the Germans, I
don't think there's as much. prejudice, if you
want to call it that, with them after the war
as there was before the war. But as far as the
blacks, I mean, even during the war, there was
a lot of prejudice with the blacks and so forth.
And this one group, was it the Toscanini Air
Force? Yes. Yes. They're just now getting credit
for what they did during the war. And it's not
right. And yet the general, what's his name?
He's a black man, and here he's a general. So
there's got to have been a change of some sort.
But some people just never change. You just have
to put up with them until they die. Well, and
that's the thing. When you breed them out, so
you raise your children, the next generation.
to understand that. My little boy actually was
asking about it the other day. He asked me, was
there historically as much racism towards Spanish
people? I mean, that's a very interesting point.
But I think because California, Florida, a lot
of the southern states, yeah, we had, we neighbor
with them. I don't think it was as bad. Yes,
you know, there is to this day. But I told him
like, you know, Irish were, which again is ridiculous
because I'm English, which means English, Irish,
Scottish. I mean, we're two little tiny rocks
in the middle of the ocean. None of us are pure
Irish or pure Scottish. So even that is insanity
to come over here and then be prejudiced against
people that are from the exact same place as
you. So there's, yeah, it's insanity. But I really
appreciate your perspective. And sometimes it's
the reverse, too, that certain groups are prejudiced
against us. Oh, yeah, exactly. Prejudice is,
yeah, it's a... a horrendous philosophy that
can be taken by anyone no matter what you look
like the best thing just judge a person by what
he is yes by their actions absolutely all right
well thank you so much for that perspective um
all right so the the first closing question i
love to ask and i'm very intrigued to hear your
your i'm afraid of this one they're pretty simple
it shouldn't be too scary um is there a book
that you love to recommend it can be about what
we've talked about or it can be something completely
different it can be fiction anything Well, actually,
I don't do a whole lot of reading, but I read
a book one time, and it was called How to Win
Friends and Influence People. Is it Dale Carnegie?
And I remember that book so well. When I was
knocking on doors, and somebody would come to
the door nasty, really you know insulting i'd
say oh and sir you just want a new book called
how to win friends and influence people you'll
get it in the next mail i'll just had to yeah
you can you can definitely say no thank you to
a cold call without being oh yeah an a -hole
you can hit people being nice just as well as
you can being nasty absolutely that's the way
women do it but they call that the oh my goodness
what's that term where you're you're seeming
like you're being nice but you're actually not
something hostility anyway i forget um all right
the next question is there a movie that you love
you mean beside tarzan uh i'm just joking Brilliant.
And what about a documentary? You mentioned that
earlier. Is there a documentary that you love?
There's something I can't think. Actually, we
watch more things on the Animal Channel and National
Geographic. Because I love animals and stuff
like that. Fascinating. Right offhand, I can't
think of a documentary that I... would really
uh that i can remember right off hand anyway
okay no but that's good it's funny my sister
actually works for works for the bbc and does
a lot of the editing the richard attenborough
planet earth oh yeah that kind of ones yeah yeah
she's worked with him so brilliant all right
so then the next question this would be an interesting
one is there a person that you would recommend
to do an interview like this to talk to the first
responders and military of the world as a guest
estimation of people that I admire would be some
of the people at the YMCA. They may not be out
doing Spartan things and stuff like that, but
they're incredible athletes, and they do some
of the things that I wish I could do. I go to
this gymnastics class, and they see him. She'll
tell Pepe, oh, he goes to the gymnastics class.
they think that i do gymnastics i go to the gymnastics
class and i try to imitate what they're doing
and and i'm probably the class clown because
if they took a movie they could say now this
is the right way and here's monty we'll show
you the wrong way that's because i was going
to ask you about it so there's a picture of you
in a gymnastics area doing a handstand against
a wall so that's the class yeah okay Because,
I mean, trust me. Where did you get that picture?
Your daughter sent a bunch to the Spartan people.
And so she forwarded me that. So, yeah, I got
you holding a gun. I got you in front of the
fire engine. I got a whole Monty album. That
was basic training. We just took some pictures
and stuff there. People. Well, I'm glad, though.
I'm glad you didn't get to fire it. I mean, that's
the thing. I'm glad that it ended the way it
did. And I always say that about that war is
whatever we think about some of the ones that
have happened since, my dad tried to force me,
not force me, that's the wrong word, but tried
to encourage me to become a PTI, physical training
instructor in the British military. But the Falklands
War just happened. And from what I can tell,
it seems like maybe diplomacy would have... fix
that as well i don't know i wasn't there but
i definitely saw how a government agency can
literally cause a bloodshed of a huge amount
of people but that being said world war ii i
would have been first to sign up because there
was no question that was truly well that was
the feeling everywhere yeah nobody i wouldn't
know if there was anybody that was against the
war here i understand that there were some people
but And everywhere that I was, you know, as a
kid and so forth, all I could see was people
that wanted to join up the service. My neighborhood
where I worked, or where I lived, I should say,
as a teenager, there was like about five different
guys. We used to hang out together and so forth.
And every one of them joined up. And one was
in the Marines, one was in the Navy, one was
in the Army, and so forth. Every one of us. And
we all wanted to go. We wanted to get in there
and get rid of these Japs and the Germans and
so forth for all these atrocities and so forth
that they've committed. I mean, we knew about
the death march, you know, in the Philippines.
And we knew about the... and with all the Jewish
people. It was unbelievable that these things
could happen, this murder on a scale like that.
I remember one of the guys at the fire station
one day was saying, why don't we stop trying
to be the policemen of the world and stuff. It's
something about... What do we care about those
Germans? And anyway, I was telling him about
some of the things that the Germans did, you
know, that he didn't know anything about. You
know, the other day at the store, and I said,
you got a veteran's discount? She said, I don't
know whether I did or not. Well, what war were
you? Oh, the Second World War. When was that?
Was that when we were fighting with, I don't
know who it was, but she had no idea. Yeah, and
that's the problem. You can't learn from history.
It's going to repeat itself if you don't teach
it. Get that in school? I mean, we learned about
World War I, but we went to school. But then
we have a... a disneyfied version of our history
sometimes too like we're not taught here what
we did when we first settled i say we my people
you know the british and spanish and the portuguese
and everyone else that came around the world
and and you know invaded people's countries but
yeah we need to teach them about the smallpox
blankets and the genocide that we did and you
know so i mean the british were the first i believe
to do um concentration camps in the boer war
We invented them, you know. So we need to teach
that. And I have to give it to when I was younger,
they were pretty open. Same as the BBC is today.
They just tell it as it is, you know. Yeah, that's
what I like about the BBC. Yeah, but that's the
way we need to do it. I mean, we have to learn
from what we did. The news is supposed to be.
It's not supposed to be prejudiced. And, of course,
it's not supposed to be fake news either. Well,
I tell people all the time. I've said this on
the podcast before. To me, a news is a person,
a man or a woman, dressed nicely that says, here's
what happened today, the end. And here, it's
a divided TV screen into four quadrants with
four people that aren't even actually that intelligent
arguing with each other about something. Meanwhile,
the actual real news is completely lost in the
conversation. So it's not news. It's an angry
debate from people who were either all the way
left or all the way right, depending on what
you're watching. Yeah, it's terrible. Well, at
least like during the war, everybody was on the
same page for at least 90 % or more. And there
wasn't this bickering or anything. And President
Roosevelt was, anything he did was good. They
didn't want to get into this war, but at the
same time, if it hadn't been for Roosevelt, we'd
probably be going around saying heil hitler or
something and they would have gotten the atomic
bomb and we were sending stuff over there so
fast they couldn't sink all the ships yeah and
it's just like you were saying these horrible
things happen and even even our profession in
the fire service when when firefighters die when
they're killed in the collapse or whatever it
is if we don't learn from that we're not honoring
the dead all the people that died in the first
world war in vietnam whatever it was if we don't
learn either better tactics within the military
or better diplomacy to not even get into a conflict
then we're dishonoring the ones that bled you
know for our country so to not tell those stories
in the schools and and to not tell them properly
on the news as well is is a disgrace i think
yeah all right well i think that's a great place
to wrap up I just want to say thank you so much.
It's an honor to have met you at the Spartan
Race, but more importantly to sit down with you
and talk to someone from another generation in
the profession that I adore and I'm trying to
help. But to invite me to your home and pour
your heart out for an hour and a half, I really,
really appreciate that. Well, it was my pleasure,
and thank you very much.