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Welcome guys to episode 210 of Behind the Shield

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podcast. As always, my name is James Geering,

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and it is my honor to introduce this week a man

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who I met running a Spartan race. His name is

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Monty Montgomery. He is a World War II veteran.

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He was 92 years old running the race that I was

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running as well with the Operation Enduring Warrior

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crew. and is also a retired Miami -Dade firefighter

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working in our profession for over three decades.

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So as you can imagine, this conversation was

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fantastic. From his early years, the end of World

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War II, the observation of racism and segregation,

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entry into the fire service, the way that's changed,

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and then what he and his wife did when they retired,

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some incredible stories out of that as well.

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So as I always say before we start, please go

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to your podcast app, subscribe, but also leave

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a rating and feedback. I love seeing what you've

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written, but also the more ratings we get, the

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more exposure we have to everyone that's looking.

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And then take your social media and help share

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this project. These incredible men and women

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that we have every single week need to be heard

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by so many people, and you guys are the key to

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helping spread this project. So with that being

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said, I introduce to you Monty Montgomery. Enjoy.

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All right, well, I want to start at the very

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beginning. I'll firstly start by saying thank

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you for inviting me to your beautiful home. It

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was nice meeting you guys at the race, and I

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really appreciate that we were able to do this.

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Thank you. It was our pleasure. So very first

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question, where were you actually born? In Baltimore,

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Maryland. Baltimore. I was delivered at home

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by the same doctor that delivered my mother when

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she was a baby. Really? Yep. So back then, was

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that actual community a small community then?

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Well, it was part of Baltimore City itself, but

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it was an individual community. It was called

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Hamden. And it was just a little different than

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the rest of Baltimore. And I grew up there, and

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I remember the Maryland Casualty Company had

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big land there. As I was growing up, they had

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a tree there called the Tarzan tree. I spent

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more time as a kid climbing trees and doing things.

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And you know how it is with a bunch of boys.

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I'm going to do this. You guys, you can't do

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that. Some of the things that my mother ever

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knew that I did, I got up on top of the walkway

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across the bridge. on 40th Street, which is about

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50 feet above the railroad track, and walked

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along the top of it just to show other kids showing

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off. And in fact, when I was in junior high,

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the guys had the big iron horse, you know, leather

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iron horse, whatever, I forget what you call

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it, that you do gymnastics on, and they were

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jumping to the chinning bar. And because... I

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was so used to climbing trees and jumping and

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stuff. Show off me. I said, let me show you how

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to do this. So I pushed it back some, which I

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could have easily made. But because I was showing

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off, just as I jumped. The guy pushed the thing.

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And all I did, I just caught the very edge of

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it, swung up in the air and came down on the

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wooden floor with my head. I had a seven -inch

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fracture down there. I broke an eardrum. I had

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a blood clot. For years, my lips would, no feeling,

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and I'd drink something, and I'd have to be careful

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that it didn't run back out. But gradually, you

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know, the nerves grow back and so forth. And

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I'm almost normal now. It took nine years. Yeah.

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Yeah, it's amazing, though, with that story,

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when you later on in life became a firefighter

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and you see that, just one fraction of a second's

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bad decision, whether it's walking out in front

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of a car or, you know, it can be life -changing.

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We never know where we're going to go. I mean,

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you walk out the door and get struck by lightning.

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Our friends on another boat, they were just struck.

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by lightning a few, what was it, about a year

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ago? Really? And they got everything back together,

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everything's fixed. Would you believe it or not,

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they got struck by lightning again. It's not

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supposed to strike in the same place twice, but

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it did for them. If it wasn't for bad luck, they

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wouldn't have any luck at all. But they have

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the health and they have a boat, so there's the

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good luck. Absolutely. All right. Then just talking

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about where you grew up as well, this is an interesting

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observation for someone with several generations

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under their belt now. What I have discovered

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myself, I grew up on a farm. When I got older,

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I'm like, okay, I'm a fireman. I work in inner

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cities most of my career. I want to get away

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from that. Ultimately, I want to have a piece

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of land and get away from people. And then some

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very intelligent people kind of made me aware

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of the whole tribal element. of humans um the

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old old towns and villages in new zealand and

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england we had those and then now you know you

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have the kind of suburban america where you have

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all these sprawling neighborhoods and people

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don't spend a lot of time talking to each other

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did you did you have that real community in in

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the town that you grew up in and have you observed

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that kind of essence changing and that you've

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oh certainly i remember if you were In trouble

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back then, if you did something wrong, your neighbors

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let your parents know right away, and you were

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in trouble. And the same way with a teacher.

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I mean, if I did something wrong in school, my

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teacher let my parents know, and I didn't want

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to go home. I knew something was going to happen

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to me when I got home. But it was a completely

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different world back then. It was so different.

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And you're right. Talk to neighbors. In fact,

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people used to, they had porches in front of

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these houses where I lived. And people would

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sit out there and they'd have swings or armchairs.

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And in the evening they'd sit out there and this

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neighbor would talk to that neighbor. And you

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just knew everybody in the neighborhood, you

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know. Yeah, that seems like it's something that

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if we were able to find that again, where I ended

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up not finding a mini farm and doing the complete

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opposite and moving into a big community in Ocala

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where there's a lake and swimming pool and tennis

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courts and a football pitch, soccer pitch and

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tracks and kids can leave the house, go out on

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their bikes, go play all day. When the streetlights

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come on, they come home, just like we talk about.

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And I see how that has helped. And it's a very

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diverse community. and all these kids play together,

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all these parents talk to each other when they're

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walking their dogs. Is that something that you

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think if we found again, it would be a benefit

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to our country? Yes, I think it would. We didn't

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have any organized games like they have today

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where the kids all have their uniforms and everything's

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organized and they have coaches. We used to just

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get together and we had a game. It was similar

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to football. It was kill the guy with the ball.

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Whoever got the football the whole game would

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try to, you know, chase him down and tackle him,

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and he would lose the ball, and somebody else

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would get it and start running, and we'd go after

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him and so forth. But it was just spontaneous.

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You know, we didn't organize it or anything.

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And as far as, like, bikes, I used to ride my

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bike to school. Because I moved from the neighborhood

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where I grew up, and I guess we were about 10

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miles away, and I used to get up in the morning

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and ride my bike to school. And my grandmother

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still lived there, and I used to leave the bike

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at her house and then walk the other half mile

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down to school. And half the time I was late,

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especially after I went past this orchard. I'd

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always stop and grab a couple of apples or something.

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But they were good days. And, of course, in the

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40s, and especially after we got into the war,

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soldiers, you know, if they were in uniform and

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they got on a streetcar or a taxi cab, they wouldn't

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take money. Of course. I wasn't supposed to be

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old enough to be in a bar, but if you went in

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a bar and a serviceman came in and wanted a drink,

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they wouldn't charge. I mean, everything was

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for the serviceman. And it was so bad or so terrible,

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I thought, when the guys from Vietnam came back.

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And no matter how you think about the politics

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of the war, those guys were over there and they

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suffered and they fought and they went through

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hell and they should have got a... reception

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like we had with that honor flight. But they

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didn't. And my brother, Carol, he was over in

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Vietnam three times. And he had some, I don't

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remember exactly what happened, but he had some

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experiences with people being nasty to him and

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so forth. Yeah, well, it's an interesting observation.

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The same guy actually had taught me about the

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whole community thing. He was also underlying

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exactly what you said. So when World War II finished,

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and I'd love to talk about that in a little bit,

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there were the tick -tape parades. Everyone was

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welcomed back as a hero. With Vietnam, who were

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drafted as well, people got to remember that.

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Most of those men were forced to go over there.

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It was the reverse. So with the mental health

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side, when you look historically, I believe that...

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that comparatively there was so many more problems

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post vietnam because there was no demob there

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was no way of them processing what they've been

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through because not only were they obviously

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just like there they were they had a true enemy

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they came back here and they were called baby

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killers and spat on and you know and it's a horrible

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way to treat people that we forced to another

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country to go supposedly fight our war yeah and

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you know they went in probably thinking the same

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way that we did in World War II, that, well,

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we'll go over there, you know, we're fighting

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for our country, which they really weren't. But

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they had that mindset in their head, you know,

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and then to come back and be treated like dirt,

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it was terrible, terrible. Yeah, and the resistance

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to the war, I mean, obviously, We look at some

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of our conflicts and realize that there was politics

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behind some of them and these men and women should

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never have been sent in harm's way in the first

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place. But the common thread that I find from

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a lot of the members of military that I've interviewed

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is once they get over there. and they see some

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of the awful things that people are doing in

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those countries, then that for them is justifying

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it. If they're in Iraq and they're seeing these

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stonings and beheadings and awful things, I don't

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want to go too much into it, but this lack of

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humanity, then they absolutely can justify it.

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stopping that and i think that's what people

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don't understand is we sit here i mean right

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now we're in south florida you know if you'd

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never been in the service at all your life would

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be amazing and then you get all judgy when people

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come back whereas we've asked people to go and

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see these horrendous things and um you know put

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them in a situation where they have no choice

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but to to kill i mean they if you're watching

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kids being you know brutalized of course you'd

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pull the trigger why wouldn't you Yeah, sometimes

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you're just put in a situation that you have

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no control of, and whether it looks good or bad

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to other people, it's something that you have

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no control over and you can't help, and it's

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not right that you be judged that way. Absolutely.

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I think. Well, going back to your school period,

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so when you were younger before World War II

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kicked off, especially the American involvement,

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What were your career aspirations when you were

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before the service? Well, when I was growing

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up, I wanted to be, what do you call it, a helmet

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diver. I had seen some movies and so forth, and

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it looked like it was a lot of fun. And I was

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told that... If you don't have perfect teeth,

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you can't be a diver. I don't know what that

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had to do with it. Just like with you, you know,

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you wanted to be a firefighter. And they said

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you couldn't be. Well, in the end, I wound up

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being a diver and actually even taking, you know,

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diving for a living. In fact. I opened the first

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dive store up in Norfolk. I moved from Baltimore

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to Norfolk after I got out of the Army and started

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the first dive club up there. And then after

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I left Norfolk and came down here, I got really

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into diving. I met her and taught her a little

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bit about diving. She couldn't even swim when

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I met her. And she claims she still can't swim

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without a mask and snorkel, but I don't know.

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She does pretty good. But I wound up getting

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a job for a while, taking dive trips out. And

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I didn't make any money out of it, but in my

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mind, it was an exotic kind of a life. And this

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is fun. The only thing is that we didn't have

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two pennies. Put together, because we only charged

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$15. We would take people out, and half the time

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I'd have to save them because they would panic

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when they came to the surface. And if they had

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their own equipment, we only charged them $10.

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And I look back and see what these dive boats

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are charging people today to take. 30 people

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out on a dive trip and they're all paying, I

00:15:08.840 --> 00:15:12.200
don't know, it's not any $15, I guarantee you.

00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:16.600
But like you were talking about a little while

00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:20.519
ago, things change so much, you know. And the

00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:22.860
equipment in diving and so forth has changed

00:15:22.860 --> 00:15:25.379
so much too. I mean, they wear these inflatables

00:15:25.379 --> 00:15:30.860
so that they get in any trouble or panic, they

00:15:30.860 --> 00:15:34.419
can inflate it and bring them up. We used to

00:15:34.419 --> 00:15:38.860
buy these almost like what you get on an airplane

00:15:38.860 --> 00:15:42.080
to put over your head and put a cartridge in

00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:46.220
it. And if I had somebody that was starting to

00:15:46.220 --> 00:15:49.720
panic and we were not close to the boat, I'd

00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:54.360
just squeeze the little trigger thing on it and

00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:57.279
inflate it and calm them down and they'd be perfectly

00:15:57.279 --> 00:16:00.460
all right as long as they didn't think they were

00:16:00.460 --> 00:16:02.820
drowning, you know, which is normal, I mean.

00:16:03.210 --> 00:16:11.769
of course. But we didn't have any money. We were

00:16:11.769 --> 00:16:15.750
living off of fish and lobster. And Friday, our

00:16:15.750 --> 00:16:20.190
landlady, who was Catholic, didn't eat steak

00:16:20.190 --> 00:16:23.529
or any meat on Friday. So she would give us,

00:16:23.549 --> 00:16:25.409
we looked forward to Friday because we could

00:16:25.409 --> 00:16:29.669
have something besides fish and lobster. And

00:16:29.669 --> 00:16:32.470
we did eat a lot of liver because that was the

00:16:32.470 --> 00:16:38.389
cheapest meat that we could buy. And it was really

00:16:38.389 --> 00:16:40.549
tough until I finally got on the fire department.

00:16:40.750 --> 00:16:46.509
And I was making $75 a week on the fire department.

00:16:46.590 --> 00:16:50.909
And we thought we were in hog heaven. And then,

00:16:50.929 --> 00:16:53.990
of course, things got better and better. And

00:16:53.990 --> 00:16:58.259
in between all that, I was... Also taking pictures,

00:16:58.340 --> 00:17:02.740
because I was a photographer. And I took baby

00:17:02.740 --> 00:17:05.779
pictures, which doesn't sound like much, but

00:17:05.779 --> 00:17:08.339
it was one of the toughest jobs I ever had. I'm

00:17:08.339 --> 00:17:11.119
sure. Oh, you try to keep up with two -year -olds

00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:14.460
and keep their mother out of the picture. Oh,

00:17:14.619 --> 00:17:18.700
man. And carry two or three strobe lights, a

00:17:18.700 --> 00:17:22.859
great big tripod, and a 5x7 camera, because in

00:17:22.859 --> 00:17:25.509
those days... Everything was black and white,

00:17:25.589 --> 00:17:29.589
and you had these big cameras. And I stayed in

00:17:29.589 --> 00:17:32.109
great shape just carrying that stuff around all

00:17:32.109 --> 00:17:38.250
day. But after I came down here to Florida and

00:17:38.250 --> 00:17:43.470
was taking the dive trips out, the picture taken

00:17:43.470 --> 00:17:47.069
sort of died off because there weren't that many

00:17:47.069 --> 00:17:51.359
kids. I mean, at that time. It was mostly elderly

00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:54.859
people that retired and came to Florida. Nowadays,

00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:57.599
I mean, there's kids everywhere. But back then,

00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:01.099
and I'd go knocking on doors just trying to get

00:18:01.099 --> 00:18:03.740
business. And they used to have all the jealousy

00:18:03.740 --> 00:18:08.200
windows, you know, that you open. And you'd be

00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:10.380
out there with a tie and coat and everything

00:18:10.380 --> 00:18:15.859
trying to look decent. telling people you know

00:18:15.859 --> 00:18:17.700
that you're taking pictures in the neighborhood

00:18:17.700 --> 00:18:20.559
and they'd open that little jealousy window and

00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:25.039
say we're not interested or we got taken last

00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:29.519
time and after about an hour or so of this you

00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:32.019
feel like next person that comes to the door

00:18:32.019 --> 00:18:40.460
acts nasty to me i had a lady one day uh i knocked

00:18:40.460 --> 00:18:43.890
on the door And I was going to ask her, you know,

00:18:43.910 --> 00:18:46.910
if there was any small children or babies there.

00:18:47.250 --> 00:18:50.930
And she had this little dog that come right out

00:18:50.930 --> 00:18:54.829
and bit my ankle. Oh, I got so mad, and I started

00:18:54.829 --> 00:18:58.230
chasing him down the street. And she said, my

00:18:58.230 --> 00:19:01.190
little dog, my little dog. I said, lady, if I

00:19:01.190 --> 00:19:03.930
catch him, I'm going to put him in a mousetrap.

00:19:06.609 --> 00:19:09.589
She didn't think it was very funny. So you didn't

00:19:09.589 --> 00:19:13.009
take a picture on that one. Another time I went

00:19:13.009 --> 00:19:16.450
to a trailer park. Once in a while we'd have

00:19:16.450 --> 00:19:19.089
trailer parks that we would go to and take pictures

00:19:19.089 --> 00:19:24.329
there. And it was really, and this was back in

00:19:24.329 --> 00:19:26.549
the 60s, and a lot of them didn't have air conditioning.

00:19:26.990 --> 00:19:29.789
And you'd stand up in the trailer, and it was

00:19:29.789 --> 00:19:32.410
100 degrees when I'm standing up. Down there

00:19:32.410 --> 00:19:36.720
a little bit lower was maybe 80 or livable. But

00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:39.180
I knock on this one door and this lady comes

00:19:39.180 --> 00:19:42.220
out and her hair's up in curls and she's got

00:19:42.220 --> 00:19:47.160
a house coat on. What do you want? I said, are

00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:50.980
you Mrs. Jones? She says, no, I'm not. I said,

00:19:51.019 --> 00:20:00.160
oh, thank God. Just a couple of little experiences,

00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:07.279
you know, along the way. So anyway. I also had

00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:11.220
a job working in this dive store on Biscayne

00:20:11.220 --> 00:20:15.240
Boulevard in the evenings. I was taking pictures

00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:19.279
at a hotel at night, and I was taking dive trips

00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:22.259
out during the day, and I worked at this dive

00:20:22.259 --> 00:20:27.420
shop in between. And one day this girl comes

00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:32.059
in and wanted to use the telephone, and it turns

00:20:32.059 --> 00:20:34.559
out she was driving cars all over the country.

00:20:35.570 --> 00:20:39.789
and that way she was seeing the country without

00:20:39.789 --> 00:20:43.309
having to pay a tourist guide or anything of

00:20:43.309 --> 00:20:45.930
that sort. I thought it was pretty smart. And

00:20:45.930 --> 00:20:49.930
I invited her out for dinner, and I've never

00:20:49.930 --> 00:20:54.849
been able to get rid of her. Beautiful. Well,

00:20:54.910 --> 00:20:56.849
you talked about a few things I want to go back

00:20:56.849 --> 00:21:00.289
to. Firstly, when you were in Norfolk, did you

00:21:00.289 --> 00:21:03.150
ever work with any of the Navy divers, the frogmen

00:21:03.150 --> 00:21:05.849
or any of those guys that were? No. No? Okay,

00:21:05.910 --> 00:21:07.750
because I know that ultimately became a hub for

00:21:07.750 --> 00:21:10.130
the East Coast SEAL teams. That's interesting.

00:21:10.470 --> 00:21:16.049
Well, one more thing. There was a swimmer, an

00:21:16.049 --> 00:21:19.710
Olympic swimmer, it was in the newspaper that

00:21:19.710 --> 00:21:22.869
he was going to swim across Hampton Roads. He

00:21:22.869 --> 00:21:25.190
was going to have a martini and swim across Hampton

00:21:25.190 --> 00:21:30.829
Roads, nothing to it. And I had rented this little

00:21:30.829 --> 00:21:34.920
house and a lot of the... two or three of the

00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:38.720
guys that I worked with would come there. And

00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:45.519
my partner, he cooked. He was an old guy. He

00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:49.500
was 60 years old or so. Of course, I say old.

00:21:49.619 --> 00:21:53.579
I was in my 20s then, you know. But it made a

00:21:53.579 --> 00:21:56.839
good partnership. He was like my father in a

00:21:56.839 --> 00:21:59.990
way. And he would cook these meals, and I'd tell

00:21:59.990 --> 00:22:02.049
these other guys, come on down, you know, and

00:22:02.049 --> 00:22:04.509
you can pay Tom something for the meal, and it'll

00:22:04.509 --> 00:22:07.109
help him, and we'll have something to talk about.

00:22:07.130 --> 00:22:09.750
Anyway, we're sitting there talking about this

00:22:09.750 --> 00:22:12.130
guy that's going to swim across Hampton Roads,

00:22:12.170 --> 00:22:14.430
and I said, well, that's no big deal. I could

00:22:14.430 --> 00:22:17.450
do that. Oh, yeah, yeah, and they give me this

00:22:17.450 --> 00:22:21.430
hard. I said, all right, I'll do it. So we went

00:22:21.430 --> 00:22:24.329
up to the starting point where this guy was going

00:22:24.329 --> 00:22:29.470
to go. Jimmy, one of the guys, said, give him

00:22:29.470 --> 00:22:32.269
a five -minute start and then go. So I gave him

00:22:32.269 --> 00:22:36.170
a five -minute start, and then I took off, and

00:22:36.170 --> 00:22:40.769
a guy was supposed to get my boat, which was

00:22:40.769 --> 00:22:43.289
anchored on the other side, and bring it around

00:22:43.289 --> 00:22:49.319
and be my escort. Well, I'm halfway across in

00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:52.059
the middle of Hampton Roads and the channels

00:22:52.059 --> 00:22:54.880
with all the big boats going by and stuff. No

00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:58.920
boat. I kept, I figured, well, I'll just keep

00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:03.259
swimming. So finally, a Coast Guard boat came

00:23:03.259 --> 00:23:06.440
by. And the only thing with the Coast Guard boat,

00:23:06.500 --> 00:23:09.200
they wanted to get in front of me. And there

00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:12.380
was a diesel engine and all these fumes were

00:23:12.380 --> 00:23:15.980
coming back. I said, look, you guys. If you get

00:23:15.980 --> 00:23:18.779
in back of me, it'd be much nicer. I want to

00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:23.019
breathe all these fumes. But I went the rest

00:23:23.019 --> 00:23:26.039
of the way. And just about the time I touched

00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:28.980
bottom, my boat showed up. Oh, really? Thanks

00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:33.200
for that. And what happened, the guy had rented

00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:37.240
a ground. And I didn't know that. He didn't say

00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:41.160
anything about it that was any problem. But when

00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:43.619
I went to go get my boat the next day, it was.

00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:46.740
three -quarters sunk because it was a wooden

00:23:46.740 --> 00:23:53.240
boat and it loosened the wood slats on the bottom

00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:59.839
a little bit. And as it turned out, I had it

00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:02.539
fixed and I had insurance on it because I was

00:24:02.539 --> 00:24:06.259
still paying for it. And I got a new engine in

00:24:06.259 --> 00:24:08.480
it and got it all fixed up. So it worked out

00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:15.180
to be a good thing. What do they call it? A blessing

00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:17.220
in disguise. A blessing in disguise. I'm trying

00:24:17.220 --> 00:24:21.980
to say that. And that was in the Chesapeake Bay,

00:24:22.059 --> 00:24:25.460
is that right? Yeah. And you did that swim two

00:24:25.460 --> 00:24:29.759
more times after that? Yeah. Well, somebody decided

00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:32.640
that that would be a great idea to make a regular

00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:37.940
swim. And so I swam it two more times. The second

00:24:37.940 --> 00:24:43.509
time, there was a... a bunch of guys from the

00:24:43.509 --> 00:24:47.089
Navy that were in that. And the guy that won

00:24:47.089 --> 00:24:54.630
was the one that was in charge of teaching people

00:24:54.630 --> 00:24:59.069
how to recover out of a plane, you know, when

00:24:59.069 --> 00:25:02.269
it went under water and so forth. And he was

00:25:02.269 --> 00:25:05.789
a hell of a guy, I'll tell you. When I finally

00:25:05.789 --> 00:25:08.049
got to the beach and walked up, there he is sitting

00:25:08.049 --> 00:25:10.849
in the chair. where the lifeguard was smoking

00:25:10.849 --> 00:25:17.470
a cigar. I mean, the guy was great. I mean, you

00:25:17.470 --> 00:25:21.109
know, I never would train swimmer or anything

00:25:21.109 --> 00:25:24.009
like that. I just loved the water and, you know,

00:25:24.029 --> 00:25:28.109
learned to swim myself and so forth. But he was

00:25:28.109 --> 00:25:34.529
a champion college swimmer before this all started.

00:25:34.630 --> 00:25:39.319
But then the third time. I almost didn't get

00:25:39.319 --> 00:25:42.660
in because I hadn't been practicing, hadn't been

00:25:42.660 --> 00:25:48.839
in the water, and the business was kind of dropping

00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:51.779
off, and I wasn't making much money and didn't

00:25:51.779 --> 00:25:55.579
have enough time to spend in the water. But I

00:25:55.579 --> 00:25:58.480
was going to get in anyway, so I got in, and

00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:02.450
I made it across there. When I got to the beach,

00:26:02.529 --> 00:26:05.390
I laid down there. I was so tired and exhausted.

00:26:05.670 --> 00:26:08.309
I just hit that beach and laid down. Next thing

00:26:08.309 --> 00:26:11.450
I know, there's the paramedics there. They thought

00:26:11.450 --> 00:26:14.769
I'd passed out. Get out of here. I'm all right.

00:26:15.950 --> 00:26:22.269
But that was just one of those stories. Brilliant.

00:26:22.309 --> 00:26:23.710
Now I want to go back to the other thing as well.

00:26:23.730 --> 00:26:25.730
So you talked about riding your bike to school

00:26:25.730 --> 00:26:28.890
and, you know, picking apples off the tree on

00:26:28.890 --> 00:26:32.920
the way. Overall, when you were young, what was

00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:38.339
the diet like? I mean, as far as had they started

00:26:38.339 --> 00:26:41.420
manufacturing and processing yet? No, no, you

00:26:41.420 --> 00:26:43.380
had good food back then. Okay, and what about

00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:45.940
obesity rates? How did everyone look back then?

00:26:46.119 --> 00:26:48.240
You know, when I look back, I don't remember

00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:51.740
a whole lot of fat people. I remember there was

00:26:51.740 --> 00:26:54.400
a lady down the street, and she was really fat.

00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:59.670
But that was such an unusual thing. And if you

00:26:59.670 --> 00:27:02.849
look at some of the movies from back in the 40s,

00:27:02.849 --> 00:27:08.369
like, I don't mean, well, the movies as well

00:27:08.369 --> 00:27:12.710
as the documentaries, like when all the people

00:27:12.710 --> 00:27:16.950
were greeting the soldiers coming back, and you

00:27:16.950 --> 00:27:20.490
look at the crowd, you don't see any people that

00:27:20.490 --> 00:27:23.390
are obese or anything. But we didn't have all

00:27:23.390 --> 00:27:26.230
this stuff that they put in our foods today.

00:27:28.780 --> 00:27:31.680
And, of course, who knows what we're breeding

00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:35.559
either. Yeah, especially when you get more congested,

00:27:35.559 --> 00:27:38.839
like Miami area and Los Angeles. Oh, yeah. At

00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:42.460
least they've cut down on the emissions from

00:27:42.460 --> 00:27:47.000
a lot of these cars. But when I was with Opelika,

00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:50.160
we not only had to put out fires and so forth,

00:27:50.299 --> 00:27:54.700
but we had to inspect cars. And these cars would

00:27:54.700 --> 00:27:58.279
come through there smoking and fumes were in

00:27:58.279 --> 00:28:02.220
there. It's a wonder I didn't die of suffocation

00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:05.740
or something. Of course, we didn't have to stay

00:28:05.740 --> 00:28:07.740
there the whole time. We'd take turns. You'd

00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:10.460
go out for a couple hours and this guy would

00:28:10.460 --> 00:28:14.900
go out for a couple hours and so forth. But it

00:28:14.900 --> 00:28:21.460
was pretty bad. And I'm glad that part was over.

00:28:22.509 --> 00:28:26.029
Didn't want anything to do with inspecting cars.

00:28:26.529 --> 00:28:30.529
They finally stopped inspecting them. And mostly

00:28:30.529 --> 00:28:34.069
today, you don't really see any. These old jalopies

00:28:34.069 --> 00:28:37.430
that are smoking and all rusted apart and so

00:28:37.430 --> 00:28:40.509
forth. Except the old car that we had ourselves.

00:28:41.250 --> 00:28:44.470
And that wasn't smoking. In fact, we had this

00:28:44.470 --> 00:28:50.069
19... What year was that in these? 64, yeah.

00:28:50.369 --> 00:28:54.640
Plymouth Valiant. with a slant six engine. And

00:28:54.640 --> 00:28:58.819
it was getting pretty damn rusty, and it looked

00:28:58.819 --> 00:29:02.720
pretty bad. And I remember when I made lieutenant,

00:29:02.940 --> 00:29:06.079
I was in the training. Whenever you make lieutenant,

00:29:06.299 --> 00:29:08.519
you have to go down and help the recruits in

00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:13.740
training. And they had brought in a whole bunch,

00:29:13.900 --> 00:29:18.319
well, I'd say about five or six cars from the

00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:21.259
junkyard so the guys could practice. Using the

00:29:21.259 --> 00:29:24.680
jaws of life and that sort of thing. Well, I

00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:27.160
go to work this morning. Guy's going to run up.

00:29:27.180 --> 00:29:30.740
Money, money, money. They got a Plymouth Vian

00:29:30.740 --> 00:29:34.359
over here. It looks better than yours. I'm going

00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:40.019
to switch it out. But the engine and that thing

00:29:40.019 --> 00:29:42.619
have just purred. The day that we sold it to

00:29:42.619 --> 00:29:48.200
this girl that wanted to use it to go to college.

00:29:49.019 --> 00:29:51.779
And as it drove away, that engine just purred.

00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:55.759
And I just couldn't believe how that engine ran

00:29:55.759 --> 00:29:58.359
so well all those years, and the body was just

00:29:58.359 --> 00:30:00.619
falling apart. I even fiberglassed the floor

00:30:00.619 --> 00:30:02.440
so that you didn't put your foot through it.

00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:08.440
Brilliant. Well, you talked about coming home

00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:12.460
from the war. So from school age, what led you

00:30:12.460 --> 00:30:19.960
in? Were you drafted? Did you volunteer? enlist

00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:23.839
in the Navy. I thought maybe I can get in, they

00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:26.640
didn't call them SEALs then, but into the UDT

00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:30.220
thing. Well, the first test they gave me was

00:30:30.220 --> 00:30:33.240
the colorblind test, I think. I didn't pass that.

00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:39.880
So I just waited until they drafted me. I got

00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:43.160
a letter from President Roosevelt said that My

00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:45.720
friends and neighbors have selected me to represent

00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:48.299
them in the Armed Forces of the United States.

00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:53.059
Please report for duty. Thanks, friends and neighbors.

00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:58.140
So you joined the Army then, you said? Yeah.

00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:01.099
Okay, and then how long did you train and where

00:31:01.099 --> 00:31:04.660
were you deployed to? Well, they sent me down

00:31:04.660 --> 00:31:09.579
to Camp Fanning, Texas, and that's near Kilgore,

00:31:09.779 --> 00:31:15.880
Texas, if anybody ever heard of it. And I'm assuming

00:31:15.880 --> 00:31:19.279
that they were training me to go to the Pacific

00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:24.500
because actually the war in Europe was over,

00:31:24.579 --> 00:31:26.599
but we were still fighting in the Pacific, and

00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:29.599
we knew that the Japs weren't going to just quit.

00:31:30.339 --> 00:31:33.640
So they were giving me all this training, mostly

00:31:33.640 --> 00:31:38.440
I would assume jungle training. And then when

00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:42.440
I was in KP one day, There was a big hullabaloo

00:31:42.440 --> 00:31:44.880
and I find out what the hell it is. They said

00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:48.660
they dropped a bomb in Japan. It wiped out a

00:31:48.660 --> 00:31:51.859
whole city. Oh, come on. A whole city, one bomb.

00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:55.180
You know, I didn't believe. But that was the

00:31:55.180 --> 00:31:58.099
thing that probably saved me. I don't know if

00:31:58.099 --> 00:32:02.220
it saved me because I might have survived. But

00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:05.140
if it hadn't been for that, I know I would have

00:32:05.140 --> 00:32:10.089
been fighting the Japanese in the Pacific. But

00:32:10.089 --> 00:32:13.829
anyway, because of that, they sent me over to

00:32:13.829 --> 00:32:17.329
Europe with the occupation forces. And that's

00:32:17.329 --> 00:32:20.950
where I spent my overseas time in Germany. So

00:32:20.950 --> 00:32:23.049
the conflict had finished. You were there just

00:32:23.049 --> 00:32:28.009
to kind of transition the country back to normality.

00:32:28.250 --> 00:32:31.950
Yeah, basically. And how did that look? What

00:32:31.950 --> 00:32:33.730
kind of role did you have when you were doing

00:32:33.730 --> 00:32:39.289
that? Well, I was a photographer. And mostly

00:32:39.289 --> 00:32:46.630
just small things like Joe Blow makes Sargent,

00:32:46.650 --> 00:32:48.869
so he takes a picture of this guy and sends it

00:32:48.869 --> 00:32:52.829
to his hometown newspaper, you know. And then

00:32:52.829 --> 00:32:57.730
one time we had a resort up on top of the mountain

00:32:57.730 --> 00:33:03.089
in Zooks Pits, and something happened. The train

00:33:03.089 --> 00:33:07.680
derailed or something, and they were... No contact

00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:11.480
with them except maybe radio, I don't know, for

00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:15.240
about a week. And so they sent me and a correspondent

00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:21.160
and a guy that did cartoons and stuff up there

00:33:21.160 --> 00:33:23.339
to see what happened. Well, we got up there,

00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:28.519
and these guys, they had a ball. I mean, everything

00:33:28.519 --> 00:33:31.059
was there at the resort, and they were drinking

00:33:31.059 --> 00:33:33.980
and shacking up with the girls and having parties,

00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:36.710
and everybody was... thinking, you know, we're

00:33:36.710 --> 00:33:38.410
going to go up there and find that they didn't

00:33:38.410 --> 00:33:41.769
have enough to eat or they were having a hard

00:33:41.769 --> 00:33:45.869
time. And they had nothing but a ball. But that

00:33:45.869 --> 00:33:49.329
was one of the assignments that I had. And then

00:33:49.329 --> 00:33:55.210
when they decided that dependents of firefighters

00:33:55.210 --> 00:33:58.710
or it was officers first would come overseas

00:33:58.710 --> 00:34:02.269
because they never had let dependents come over.

00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:05.700
And then I was assigned to take some pictures

00:34:05.700 --> 00:34:08.260
of some of the dependents and send them back

00:34:08.260 --> 00:34:14.059
and so forth. And that job kind of fizzled out

00:34:14.059 --> 00:34:17.460
for a while, and then they sent me to Karlsruhe,

00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:20.760
where I was working in this train station where

00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:24.440
we fed the troops as they went through. And about

00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:28.489
all I did, if they were... Going on furlough,

00:34:28.489 --> 00:34:33.210
like to Switzerland or someplace, then they had

00:34:33.210 --> 00:34:35.710
to pay for the meal, which was a quarter, or

00:34:35.710 --> 00:34:41.969
one mark, which was 25 cents. So I was in charge

00:34:41.969 --> 00:34:46.070
of taking care of the money, and some of them

00:34:46.070 --> 00:34:48.469
would pay in Swiss francs, and some of them would

00:34:48.469 --> 00:34:52.610
pay in French francs, and German marks, and I

00:34:52.610 --> 00:34:56.070
had to take care of it and make sure that...

00:34:56.199 --> 00:34:58.599
All the money was there, and the right money

00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:04.019
was there, you know, from each country. And other

00:35:04.019 --> 00:35:08.760
than that, we just had some great meals there

00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:12.139
because we were, you know, taking care of the

00:35:12.139 --> 00:35:15.519
troops. And I remember the sergeant that was

00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:19.119
in charge, almost every day we'd have steak and

00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:22.360
eggs that he would order up. And if we ordered

00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:25.639
them, we got it too. So that worked out great.

00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:31.380
But other than that, you know, we just took care

00:35:31.380 --> 00:35:33.699
of the troops and made sure that they were fed

00:35:33.699 --> 00:35:37.860
and that they got back on the train in time and

00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:44.960
that sort of thing. And let's see. Where did

00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:48.980
I go after that? They sent me down to Ingolstadt.

00:35:49.690 --> 00:35:51.829
And I was only there for a short time, and then

00:35:51.829 --> 00:35:56.550
I got my orders to come home. Okay. And what

00:35:56.550 --> 00:36:01.389
year did you get out of the military? Of 47.

00:36:01.809 --> 00:36:05.989
Okay. May of 47, I think, was on my discharge.

00:36:07.230 --> 00:36:09.889
All right. And that was when you did the diving

00:36:09.889 --> 00:36:12.309
and the baby photography and all that stuff after?

00:36:12.670 --> 00:36:15.929
Oh, yeah. Okay. So then let's walk us through.

00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:17.960
the fire service. I know we talked a bit before

00:36:17.960 --> 00:36:21.400
we started recording. When did you decide that

00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:23.460
you wanted to be a firefighter, and then how

00:36:23.460 --> 00:36:26.280
was your entry into the profession? Well, as

00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:28.900
I was talking before about diving and so forth,

00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:33.019
I thought, boy, if I ever get to Florida, clear

00:36:33.019 --> 00:36:36.099
water and so forth. Well, this company that I

00:36:36.099 --> 00:36:39.139
worked for decided to send somebody down to Florida,

00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:44.079
and I was one of the ones that they wanted to

00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:46.980
send down. I thought, No matter what, I'm not

00:36:46.980 --> 00:36:51.780
going back. And so we struggled. Like I say,

00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:55.480
there weren't a lot of babies to take pictures

00:36:55.480 --> 00:36:58.659
of down here. At that time, they were mostly

00:36:58.659 --> 00:37:03.340
all retired people and so forth. And I met some

00:37:03.340 --> 00:37:08.320
of the divers. That were local and became pretty

00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:09.780
good friends with them. And they were telling

00:37:09.780 --> 00:37:13.260
me, hey, we're on the fire department. And, you

00:37:13.260 --> 00:37:15.159
know, tomorrow maybe we'll get a little bit of

00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:17.320
rest if we don't get any calls or anything. And

00:37:17.320 --> 00:37:19.920
I'm finding out more and more about the fire

00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:22.840
department. I thought, hey, I got to get on the

00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:25.039
fire department. And then if I have a day off,

00:37:25.059 --> 00:37:27.320
I can go diving with these guys and so forth.

00:37:29.069 --> 00:37:31.489
I started applying for the different departments,

00:37:31.570 --> 00:37:35.469
and I was either too old or I was too skinny

00:37:35.469 --> 00:37:40.289
or colorblind or something. I don't know. And

00:37:40.289 --> 00:37:42.969
I was trying every trick in the book. Like I

00:37:42.969 --> 00:37:45.550
say, I put a weight belt on. I didn't have any

00:37:45.550 --> 00:37:48.510
stomach at all. Pictures of me, like, it's caved

00:37:48.510 --> 00:37:51.250
in here. So I could put a shirt on over top of

00:37:51.250 --> 00:37:52.889
a weight belt, and you couldn't even see it.

00:37:54.010 --> 00:37:57.050
So just trying to tip the scales to match their

00:37:57.050 --> 00:38:01.889
minimum weight. And finally, Opelika had the

00:38:01.889 --> 00:38:06.769
oldest age limit. I think it was 35. And I just

00:38:06.769 --> 00:38:09.409
made it under the bar there and I got on Opelika.

00:38:09.550 --> 00:38:13.809
And then I was on there until from 63 to 72 and

00:38:13.809 --> 00:38:18.050
the county took it over. And that was the best

00:38:18.050 --> 00:38:21.630
thing that ever happened to me. And when you

00:38:21.630 --> 00:38:24.030
first started your career, what were your shift

00:38:24.030 --> 00:38:29.239
cycles? I think we had... One day on and one

00:38:29.239 --> 00:38:35.239
day off, didn't we? No, because when they came

00:38:35.239 --> 00:38:38.380
along with the idea that you got a C date, I

00:38:38.380 --> 00:38:42.280
thought, oh, man, this can't be true. Another

00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:45.719
day off? See, this is interesting because now,

00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:50.760
you know, the 2448s, I don't know if you know,

00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:54.800
but Boca up the road here does 2472s. And with

00:38:54.800 --> 00:38:57.789
the call volume that they have now. I mean, they're

00:38:57.789 --> 00:39:00.829
running 24 hours straight, a lot of these inner

00:39:00.829 --> 00:39:02.949
city departments, and they're realizing now that

00:39:02.949 --> 00:39:06.710
even the 48, and I'm doing air quotes because

00:39:06.710 --> 00:39:09.869
people say two days off, it's not really, but

00:39:09.869 --> 00:39:13.829
that even that is not sufficient to recover from

00:39:13.829 --> 00:39:17.659
every single shift being awake all night. So

00:39:17.659 --> 00:39:20.440
speaking of that, what did your 24 hours look

00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:21.840
like when you first started? Were you running

00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:24.800
a lot, or was it more like we hear about the

00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:29.219
quieter days? Well, of course, when you first

00:39:29.219 --> 00:39:36.179
get on, I'd been already on the other fire department

00:39:36.179 --> 00:39:41.420
on Opelika, but nonetheless, when I came to the

00:39:41.420 --> 00:39:46.119
county, I was new to them anyway. And what they

00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:50.639
do is wherever they have a vacancy, maybe somebody's

00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:52.780
out sick or something like that, you go here,

00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:57.019
you go to there. I went one time from Station

00:39:57.019 --> 00:40:00.400
21, they sent me there, which is right at Baker's

00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:03.880
Hall over, all the way down to Homestead in the

00:40:03.880 --> 00:40:08.619
same day and back. But finally, it works on the

00:40:08.619 --> 00:40:14.530
system of seniority. seniority of your rank.

00:40:14.710 --> 00:40:17.190
I mean, they have a seniority list for the firefighter

00:40:17.190 --> 00:40:18.869
and for the lieutenant captain. Well, you're

00:40:18.869 --> 00:40:21.929
familiar, probably. But finally, when I had enough

00:40:21.929 --> 00:40:25.570
seniority, I bid the station at Baker's Hall

00:40:25.570 --> 00:40:28.690
over, which is right on the water. And I thought,

00:40:28.730 --> 00:40:31.349
this is my place, you know, on the water, because

00:40:31.349 --> 00:40:34.250
water rescue is what I really wanted to be in.

00:40:34.949 --> 00:40:38.929
And so I was very happy there, although I didn't

00:40:38.929 --> 00:40:42.980
have that many water rescues, because The lifeguards

00:40:42.980 --> 00:40:46.460
got most of the water rescues. But on the other

00:40:46.460 --> 00:40:49.460
side, on the bay side, once in a while there'd

00:40:49.460 --> 00:40:55.239
be a boat that was capsized or a car would go

00:40:55.239 --> 00:41:02.840
into the canal or something like that. And so

00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:07.360
I really didn't get that many. But it was a great

00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:12.110
place to work anyhow. We used to have, well,

00:41:12.210 --> 00:41:17.130
I shouldn't even say this, but we used to call

00:41:17.130 --> 00:41:20.510
it water rescue, and I'd go outside the station

00:41:20.510 --> 00:41:23.469
and dive around there and pick up some lobster

00:41:23.469 --> 00:41:26.070
and bring it in, and I kept the captain happy.

00:41:26.130 --> 00:41:30.110
I'd give him a couple lobsters, and we'd have

00:41:30.110 --> 00:41:33.150
some for ourselves. And we actually did. It was

00:41:33.150 --> 00:41:35.909
practice, you know. We would practice diving

00:41:35.909 --> 00:41:44.239
and so forth, especially me. And another thing,

00:41:44.380 --> 00:41:51.300
at Station 21, I decided that it wasn't that

00:41:51.300 --> 00:41:54.780
far I'd start riding my bike to work. And it

00:41:54.780 --> 00:42:00.340
was about 18 miles. So I told Nisi, I said, I'm

00:42:00.340 --> 00:42:03.940
going to ride my bike to work. And I got a five

00:42:03.940 --> 00:42:07.150
-gallon bucket. And I got some bungee cord and

00:42:07.150 --> 00:42:09.469
put it on the back, put my uniform and everything

00:42:09.469 --> 00:42:12.409
in there. And I got up around 5 o 'clock in the

00:42:12.409 --> 00:42:17.710
morning and had to be there by 7. And I get there

00:42:17.710 --> 00:42:20.429
just a little bit early, just enough to run in

00:42:20.429 --> 00:42:23.289
the shower and put my uniform on and ready for

00:42:23.289 --> 00:42:27.230
work. And sometimes I get there early enough,

00:42:27.250 --> 00:42:30.190
I'd go for a little run. And one of the guys

00:42:30.190 --> 00:42:33.369
that I worked with, he was slightly diabetic.

00:42:34.159 --> 00:42:37.900
And I talked him into running. And so we would

00:42:37.900 --> 00:42:40.659
have time sometimes in the morning and we would

00:42:40.659 --> 00:42:46.039
run it. And his diabetic, I mean, he wasn't really

00:42:46.039 --> 00:42:49.320
diabetic, but he was on the first. He said that

00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:53.199
the doctor told him that he was so much better

00:42:53.199 --> 00:42:55.679
now that he's been running and so forth. And

00:42:55.679 --> 00:43:00.380
so he was real happy with that. And then I met

00:43:00.380 --> 00:43:03.940
this other firefighter. Name is Andy Sendry.

00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:12.659
And he was a complete athlete. And he heard that

00:43:12.659 --> 00:43:18.559
I was a diver. And he was a diver. And we went

00:43:18.559 --> 00:43:22.679
to Bimini together. And it was like the gunfight

00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:28.750
at the... Okay, Corral. Okay, Corral, yeah, where

00:43:28.750 --> 00:43:31.829
I'd be diving in 30 feet and going down to the

00:43:31.829 --> 00:43:34.110
bottom and looking around. He'd go down 30 feet,

00:43:34.150 --> 00:43:35.809
and then we'd go out further, and we're down

00:43:35.809 --> 00:43:41.170
at 40 feet, and then we're down at 60 feet. And

00:43:41.170 --> 00:43:45.809
we decided that both of us were about the same,

00:43:45.909 --> 00:43:49.769
but we would get together, and he'd try to figure

00:43:49.769 --> 00:43:52.889
out. Something that the other guy couldn't do.

00:43:54.010 --> 00:43:56.250
Well, I remember one day he put the ladder up.

00:43:56.869 --> 00:44:00.309
And instead of climbing the ladder, we got on

00:44:00.309 --> 00:44:02.650
the inside of the ladder and pulling yourself

00:44:02.650 --> 00:44:06.829
up rung by rung. And then he got me into running

00:44:06.829 --> 00:44:10.849
because he was really into running a lot. He

00:44:10.849 --> 00:44:13.849
did a lot of 10Ks and even barathons and stuff.

00:44:14.630 --> 00:44:18.070
He did the Ironman in Hawaii. Yes, he did the

00:44:18.070 --> 00:44:21.769
Ironman in Hawaii. Oh, really? Yeah. He's an

00:44:21.769 --> 00:44:29.250
incredible athlete, really. Wow. And that's the

00:44:29.250 --> 00:44:34.269
funny part. He thinks I'm good, but I could never

00:44:34.269 --> 00:44:36.789
keep up with him. Of course, he is a little bit

00:44:36.789 --> 00:44:40.389
younger than me, but anyway, he got me into running,

00:44:40.429 --> 00:44:45.170
and pretty soon somebody suggested that we try

00:44:45.170 --> 00:44:49.059
to do a 10K. And I thought, well, you know. I'll

00:44:49.059 --> 00:44:51.420
try. If I can't make it, I'll walk or something.

00:44:51.900 --> 00:44:56.000
And it worked out pretty good. I did 10K. And

00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:59.360
then we started looking around, doing 10Ks. And

00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:05.460
then it became two or three of us at this stage.

00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:08.699
And somebody said, think we could do a marathon?

00:45:09.820 --> 00:45:14.219
And I'm thinking of the marathon, 26 miles. I

00:45:14.219 --> 00:45:17.500
don't know. And from somewhere. or somebody,

00:45:17.739 --> 00:45:19.800
they gave me this book, I don't know whatever

00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:22.440
happened to it, telling you how to train for

00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:29.699
a marathon. And it worked. I trained just according

00:45:29.699 --> 00:45:36.280
to this book, and I got in the Orange Bowl Marathon.

00:45:36.820 --> 00:45:41.000
I didn't set any records, maybe for being slow,

00:45:41.199 --> 00:45:44.539
but at least I finished it. And right at the

00:45:44.539 --> 00:45:50.980
end, I remember that we had maybe a half a mile

00:45:50.980 --> 00:45:54.039
to go, and I was really tired. I started to walk

00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:57.480
a little bit, and there was this girl there.

00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:01.960
All I know is she said her name was Karen. That's

00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:05.739
all I know about her. But she had headphones

00:46:05.739 --> 00:46:12.500
and stuff, and she was playing Rocky. Anyway.

00:46:15.779 --> 00:46:20.239
With that song and her, we just took off and

00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:25.559
we made it. I don't know what that's all about.

00:46:26.039 --> 00:46:28.320
I mean, we're leading through all these different

00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:30.460
things. It's probably coming up from the surface

00:46:30.460 --> 00:46:34.039
from somewhere. So was that, I mean, you're emotional

00:46:34.039 --> 00:46:36.679
now. Was that a huge achievement for you in the

00:46:36.679 --> 00:46:39.460
life journey then to finish that marathon? Oh,

00:46:39.460 --> 00:46:43.199
yeah. I never thought in my life I'd... Run 26

00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:45.500
miles. Especially when you couldn't even eat

00:46:45.500 --> 00:46:47.019
because half your face wasn't working when you

00:46:47.019 --> 00:46:50.159
were seven. So that's a hell of a journey from

00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:54.860
there. It was quite an achievement. After that,

00:46:54.920 --> 00:47:00.460
I didn't see my 10Ks were so much easier. But

00:47:00.460 --> 00:47:03.179
the thing of it is, I started running again because

00:47:03.179 --> 00:47:08.219
I wore my knees out doing triathlons and running

00:47:08.219 --> 00:47:12.329
10Ks and stuff. And so I decided to get... Especially

00:47:12.329 --> 00:47:16.949
the one knee. I got that done. Then a few years

00:47:16.949 --> 00:47:21.530
later, I got the other one done. And when you

00:47:21.530 --> 00:47:25.670
get your new knees, they tell you, you're not

00:47:25.670 --> 00:47:27.829
supposed to run. You're not supposed to ski.

00:47:28.170 --> 00:47:30.309
You're not supposed to jump. You're not supposed

00:47:30.309 --> 00:47:35.070
to do this. And I said to the doctor, why do

00:47:35.070 --> 00:47:37.269
you think I had my knees done? You don't want

00:47:37.269 --> 00:47:41.460
me to do anything. Really took it easy for a

00:47:41.460 --> 00:47:43.860
while, and I didn't run. I didn't do anything.

00:47:44.420 --> 00:47:50.420
I thought, the heck with it. And especially lately

00:47:50.420 --> 00:47:53.539
when I decided to do this Spartan thing, I thought,

00:47:53.639 --> 00:47:59.199
you know, I'm 90. I was 91 then. I'm 91 now.

00:47:59.380 --> 00:48:03.239
If these things last 10 years, I'll be 101. I

00:48:03.239 --> 00:48:05.320
probably won't be doing this kind of stuff anymore.

00:48:05.500 --> 00:48:09.050
I don't know. Maybe I will. But I'm going to

00:48:09.050 --> 00:48:10.989
start running on it. So I started running again,

00:48:11.110 --> 00:48:14.769
and I couldn't run at all. It seemed like I'd

00:48:14.769 --> 00:48:18.949
run a couple hundred yards, and I'd be out of

00:48:18.949 --> 00:48:23.590
breath. So I got my ankle weights that I'd had

00:48:23.590 --> 00:48:26.090
for a long time, and I put them on. And there's

00:48:26.090 --> 00:48:27.989
a little park over here, and I put the ankle

00:48:27.989 --> 00:48:31.110
weights on and ran around there. And then when

00:48:31.110 --> 00:48:36.210
I come into the Y, we run around the gym there.

00:48:36.780 --> 00:48:41.239
you know, four or five times. And I had a hard

00:48:41.239 --> 00:48:44.599
time keeping up with some of these girls in this

00:48:44.599 --> 00:48:48.219
class. It's almost all women except for about

00:48:48.219 --> 00:48:51.239
two guys. And they make me look like a wimp.

00:48:51.300 --> 00:48:55.780
It's embarrassing. But gradually I found out

00:48:55.780 --> 00:48:59.670
that, you know, I can run. In fact... The other

00:48:59.670 --> 00:49:01.969
day when I went there, I suddenly got this spurt

00:49:01.969 --> 00:49:04.269
of energy. I don't know where it came from. And

00:49:04.269 --> 00:49:06.789
I took off and I was running past everybody.

00:49:07.809 --> 00:49:11.369
It didn't last too long. And suddenly it came

00:49:11.369 --> 00:49:13.590
to an abrupt end and I was out of breath. But

00:49:13.590 --> 00:49:18.710
it came out of nowhere. And I just felt like

00:49:18.710 --> 00:49:23.150
the old self, you know, like nothing to it. But

00:49:23.150 --> 00:49:26.329
it doesn't last like that. Now, how long ago

00:49:26.329 --> 00:49:30.630
did you have the knees done? This last one was

00:49:30.630 --> 00:49:33.190
right before we took that cruise, wasn't it?

00:49:33.309 --> 00:49:35.429
How long ago was that? It would have been at

00:49:35.429 --> 00:49:40.030
least 2016. Okay, so somewhere. Yeah. Right.

00:49:40.150 --> 00:49:46.130
So when we met, it was the Spartan race in West

00:49:46.130 --> 00:49:50.309
Palm, wasn't it? By Boca. Yeah. And that was

00:49:50.309 --> 00:49:54.190
a 5K, basically, but not 5K running, up and down

00:49:54.190 --> 00:49:58.900
and climbing obstacles and through water. And

00:49:58.900 --> 00:50:01.280
that really struck me because it wasn't, like

00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:04.219
you said, it wasn't listening to, let's just

00:50:04.219 --> 00:50:06.119
say, poor medical advice where, yeah, we're going

00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:07.699
to fix your knees and then that way you'll be

00:50:07.699 --> 00:50:09.159
able to sit nicely for the rest of your life.

00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:12.420
You said, why would you get your knees done if

00:50:12.420 --> 00:50:17.179
you weren't going to move? What has your mindset

00:50:17.179 --> 00:50:20.139
been as far as aging? Because, I mean, everything

00:50:20.139 --> 00:50:22.519
I've seen that you've done this last, let's say,

00:50:22.539 --> 00:50:28.550
three decades seems to be... Not ignoring aging,

00:50:28.730 --> 00:50:32.090
but just ignoring what we see now as the calibration

00:50:32.090 --> 00:50:35.210
of aging, which is, oh, well, I'm 45. No wonder

00:50:35.210 --> 00:50:37.190
my knees are shot and I'm on blood pressure medication.

00:50:37.650 --> 00:50:41.610
So what's your mindset every day as far as the

00:50:41.610 --> 00:50:45.789
aging process? I never really thought about it

00:50:45.789 --> 00:50:48.070
unless somebody brought the subject up. And then

00:50:48.070 --> 00:50:52.360
I'd kid about it. I would say, where are you,

00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:55.739
young whippersnappers? I'd put on a little bit

00:50:55.739 --> 00:50:59.440
of an act, but I never really think about it.

00:51:00.099 --> 00:51:04.280
I've always liked challenges. Somebody tell me

00:51:04.280 --> 00:51:07.900
that I can't do it, then I'm going to do it,

00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:15.519
or I'm going to die trying. And most of my friends

00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:21.239
were in their 40s and 50s. I never really thought

00:51:21.239 --> 00:51:26.780
about, you know, old people, you know. They're

00:51:26.780 --> 00:51:29.760
old people, these guys. I'm not one of them.

00:51:29.820 --> 00:51:33.659
I'm one of these young guys. And that's sort

00:51:33.659 --> 00:51:42.360
of my mindset, I think. We, how did I describe?

00:51:42.599 --> 00:51:47.980
Oh, my daughter was having a party and she invited

00:51:47.980 --> 00:51:52.219
us. And Niecy said, would it be all right if

00:51:52.219 --> 00:51:55.039
we bring some of our friends to the party? And

00:51:55.039 --> 00:51:57.579
my daughter says, yeah, that's fine. Afterwards,

00:51:58.440 --> 00:52:02.800
my daughter says, Mom, I should call it to her.

00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:05.679
She says, your friends are at the same age as

00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:11.000
my friends. And it was true. I mean, most of

00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:15.000
them were pretty young. Most of the people that

00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:19.500
I dive with and stuff were much younger. And

00:52:19.500 --> 00:52:23.340
we do have some older friends, too. We have some

00:52:23.340 --> 00:52:25.840
friends, the ones that just had lightning strike

00:52:25.840 --> 00:52:29.739
their boat. They've lived on their boat for who

00:52:29.739 --> 00:52:34.860
knows when, what, 25 years? Yeah. But when I

00:52:34.860 --> 00:52:38.920
retired from the fire department, we bought a

00:52:38.920 --> 00:52:43.659
trawler. And we took off. For 16 years, we lived

00:52:43.659 --> 00:52:49.130
on it. That was good for staying in shape, too,

00:52:49.190 --> 00:52:51.409
because in the Bahamas, I'd just get up in the

00:52:51.409 --> 00:52:54.010
morning, run to the back of the boat and jump

00:52:54.010 --> 00:52:56.969
in, swim around this little island, and then

00:52:56.969 --> 00:53:01.070
come back and do some push -ups and pull -ups

00:53:01.070 --> 00:53:05.969
on the back of the boat. And we had some buckets

00:53:05.969 --> 00:53:08.769
always on the boat, and we'd fill them with water

00:53:08.769 --> 00:53:13.029
and then do curls with a bucket of water. And

00:53:13.029 --> 00:53:15.409
before you even have your coffee, and I mean,

00:53:15.409 --> 00:53:18.289
then you're ready to go. You jump in the dinghy

00:53:18.289 --> 00:53:21.170
and you go out and you're diving all day, shooting

00:53:21.170 --> 00:53:25.190
fish and picking up lobster and conch and that

00:53:25.190 --> 00:53:28.670
sort of thing. I mean, the kind of vacation that

00:53:28.670 --> 00:53:31.010
people would pay a million dollars for. We were

00:53:31.010 --> 00:53:34.170
living it up. I go back to the fire station and

00:53:34.170 --> 00:53:37.500
these guys would say, oh, money. You're living

00:53:37.500 --> 00:53:40.179
the life. I'd love to do that. But my wife, she

00:53:40.179 --> 00:53:43.659
wouldn't leave the shopping malls. Or my wife

00:53:43.659 --> 00:53:48.860
gets seasick. She can't stand boats. And they're

00:53:48.860 --> 00:53:52.860
so depressed over the fact that I'm having all

00:53:52.860 --> 00:53:56.860
this fun. Not depressed, but they're jealous

00:53:56.860 --> 00:54:01.960
of what they'd like to do, too. And it really

00:54:01.960 --> 00:54:06.849
was a great life. I didn't want to stop. She's

00:54:06.849 --> 00:54:09.789
had fibromyalgia, and she had a problem with

00:54:09.789 --> 00:54:14.250
her hip, finally got her hip replaced. And she

00:54:14.250 --> 00:54:17.389
just couldn't, you know, handle the boat that

00:54:17.389 --> 00:54:19.869
much anymore. She was the one that drove the

00:54:19.869 --> 00:54:22.409
boat most of the time, where it looked like it.

00:54:22.429 --> 00:54:26.449
We'd have it on autopilot, but we'd have to sit

00:54:26.449 --> 00:54:28.230
there, you know, and she'd be sitting there like

00:54:28.230 --> 00:54:33.070
she's driving away. Well, she's better at getting

00:54:33.070 --> 00:54:39.780
the red and green. buoys in the right side, whereas

00:54:39.780 --> 00:54:43.000
I had a little trouble. At least they had a different

00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:45.760
design. I mean, one of them was a triangle and

00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:49.320
the other was sort of a different shape. But

00:54:49.320 --> 00:54:53.000
as far as the colors, some of them would just

00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:55.579
be a stick, you know, with a different color

00:54:55.579 --> 00:55:02.039
on it. And she's very good at that, not being

00:55:02.039 --> 00:55:05.170
colorblind. Well, it's interesting as well you

00:55:05.170 --> 00:55:09.969
say about the boat because most people's aspirations

00:55:09.969 --> 00:55:13.829
that live in normal suburban life is to once,

00:55:13.989 --> 00:55:15.829
you know, maybe the anniversary or a special

00:55:15.829 --> 00:55:17.989
birthday, they'll go and get lobster, you know,

00:55:18.010 --> 00:55:19.510
and there you were jumping off the back of a

00:55:19.510 --> 00:55:22.010
boat, you know, eating this amazing food and,

00:55:22.030 --> 00:55:24.230
you know, therefore it was paying off, you know,

00:55:24.250 --> 00:55:27.789
like you said, you're exercising. And fresh air.

00:55:28.280 --> 00:55:30.260
Yeah, exactly. And we've kind of walled ourselves

00:55:30.260 --> 00:55:32.980
into ill health a lot of times. And then, like

00:55:32.980 --> 00:55:36.000
we said before, then you add in the poisoning

00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:39.039
of our food and the abuse of the meat that we

00:55:39.039 --> 00:55:42.019
end up eating. And the answer is so blatantly

00:55:42.019 --> 00:55:45.239
simple. It's just going back to what your parents

00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:48.639
did, what they ate and how they farmed. I think

00:55:48.639 --> 00:55:51.280
that would solve a huge amount of the issues

00:55:51.280 --> 00:55:54.900
that we see. Well, our friends from Australia

00:55:54.900 --> 00:55:58.679
used to come over and spend it. a couple months

00:55:58.679 --> 00:56:03.159
in the Bahamas with us. And it was like going

00:56:03.159 --> 00:56:08.119
back to nature. I think he liked to hunt and

00:56:08.119 --> 00:56:11.920
stuff anyway. But we were living like living

00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:14.159
off the land, only we were living off the sea.

00:56:15.099 --> 00:56:18.139
We'd get up in the morning and after the swim

00:56:18.139 --> 00:56:21.400
and exercise stuff, when we'd go out, we'd dive

00:56:21.400 --> 00:56:23.880
all day and we'd bring back some fish and stuff.

00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:28.559
And we would have... that for dinner but meantime

00:56:28.559 --> 00:56:32.579
we'd sit up on the bow of the boat and a lot

00:56:32.579 --> 00:56:36.099
of times she would make this lobster dip and

00:56:36.099 --> 00:56:40.179
a cold beer and lobster dip after time i mean

00:56:40.179 --> 00:56:44.400
it doesn't get any better than that now with

00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:46.460
the transition from the fire so you were actually

00:56:46.460 --> 00:56:51.019
68 when you retired yeah i was the oldest guy

00:56:51.019 --> 00:56:52.920
on the fire department okay so before we even

00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:55.699
talk about retirement so again what What kept

00:56:55.699 --> 00:56:57.920
you there so long? What kept you able to function

00:56:57.920 --> 00:57:03.960
well as a firefighter at that age? Well, I just

00:57:03.960 --> 00:57:08.420
did the same thing I always did. And I rode my

00:57:08.420 --> 00:57:15.219
bike to work every day. And we could get exercise.

00:57:15.500 --> 00:57:18.820
Right there at Baker's Hall over where we had

00:57:18.820 --> 00:57:22.320
that station, we would get off and Andy Sendry

00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:25.900
and I would go to the beach. And there was a

00:57:25.900 --> 00:57:30.280
Vita course there. And, you know, I guess you're

00:57:30.280 --> 00:57:32.119
familiar with them. You know, you do the first

00:57:32.119 --> 00:57:34.639
couple of exercises, which are just sort of warm

00:57:34.639 --> 00:57:36.420
-up and stretching and stuff. And then you get

00:57:36.420 --> 00:57:39.260
into push -ups and pull -ups and that sort of

00:57:39.260 --> 00:57:42.340
thing. And then we go for a swim. And then I

00:57:42.340 --> 00:57:45.099
jump on my bike and go home. And he'd jump on

00:57:45.099 --> 00:57:48.960
his bike and go home. And then I had a little

00:57:48.960 --> 00:57:53.110
fiberglass shop. And I'd go over there and I'd

00:57:53.110 --> 00:57:56.150
be hand sanding and lifted because it was just

00:57:56.150 --> 00:57:59.190
me by myself and had to do everything. And so

00:57:59.190 --> 00:58:02.449
I, you know, basically stayed in pretty good

00:58:02.449 --> 00:58:07.230
shape. And so I just kept doing the same things

00:58:07.230 --> 00:58:11.889
that I always did. She's got people coming to

00:58:11.889 --> 00:58:14.670
cut the lawn and stuff. I said, what's the matter?

00:58:14.710 --> 00:58:16.989
I can cut the lawn for you if you want. I mean,

00:58:17.030 --> 00:58:19.389
I'm not helpless anymore just because I'm 90.

00:58:20.840 --> 00:58:23.619
Well, speaking of that, so you were 68 when you

00:58:23.619 --> 00:58:25.880
left. One of the things that I talk about a lot

00:58:25.880 --> 00:58:29.239
here is sleep deprivation and us being up all

00:58:29.239 --> 00:58:33.719
night. Did you notice a big difference the following

00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:35.920
year, say after you retired, when you actually

00:58:35.920 --> 00:58:39.579
got to be in your own bed every night? Not really,

00:58:39.619 --> 00:58:43.659
because as soon as I retired, we jumped on that

00:58:43.659 --> 00:58:48.480
boat and we would be over in the Bahamas or someplace.

00:58:50.670 --> 00:58:53.170
When you're on that boat all day or you're swimming

00:58:53.170 --> 00:58:56.690
all day or diving all day, at 8 o 'clock you

00:58:56.690 --> 00:59:00.289
can't keep your eyes open anymore. So I slept

00:59:00.289 --> 00:59:04.150
pretty good. And although we had an air conditioner

00:59:04.150 --> 00:59:07.710
on there, if we had the hatch open, there was

00:59:07.710 --> 00:59:09.849
usually a nice breeze and we'd actually have

00:59:09.849 --> 00:59:12.590
to have a sheet over top of us. You know, not

00:59:12.590 --> 00:59:15.730
a blanket or anything, but I mean, it was just

00:59:15.730 --> 00:59:18.969
like a perfect temperature. Right. But as far

00:59:18.969 --> 00:59:22.429
as your... your your sense of well -being you

00:59:22.429 --> 00:59:25.329
were you were sleeping well now versus one eye

00:59:25.329 --> 00:59:27.969
open with the tones about to go off did you did

00:59:27.969 --> 00:59:29.989
you find that your health improved even more

00:59:29.989 --> 00:59:32.510
after you got to get away from the alarms in

00:59:32.510 --> 00:59:37.730
the station i'd say Oh, I got more exercise because,

00:59:37.889 --> 00:59:40.969
you know, I could exercise all day. You don't

00:59:40.969 --> 00:59:43.869
realize you're exercising because you're having

00:59:43.869 --> 00:59:46.869
fun. That's what I've said about people. How

00:59:46.869 --> 00:59:49.289
do you stay in shape? Because I've been diving

00:59:49.289 --> 00:59:51.750
my whole life and I didn't realize I was exercising.

00:59:51.750 --> 00:59:55.869
I thought I was having fun. And it's true. If

00:59:55.869 --> 00:59:57.989
you're doing something that you like. Andy, he

00:59:57.989 --> 01:00:02.010
loves to run. And for no other reason, he can

01:00:02.010 --> 01:00:05.300
find an excuse to go running. And he got me into

01:00:05.300 --> 01:00:10.420
it, and I wasn't quite like him. But I did get

01:00:10.420 --> 01:00:12.500
to the point where I enjoyed going for a run,

01:00:12.579 --> 01:00:17.139
but I didn't go out of my way to do it. I'd get

01:00:17.139 --> 01:00:19.800
up in the morning and run down to maybe Hollywood

01:00:19.800 --> 01:00:23.780
Boulevard and back, and it would just get all

01:00:23.780 --> 01:00:26.260
the blood circulating and everything, and you

01:00:26.260 --> 01:00:28.559
really feel like you're ready to go for the day.

01:00:30.059 --> 01:00:31.719
Now what about, we're going back to the fire

01:00:31.719 --> 01:00:37.639
service for a moment, What was the fitness standards?

01:00:37.900 --> 01:00:39.579
Where was the bar held? Because I know we've

01:00:39.579 --> 01:00:43.159
had, at Hialeah, we talked about my first department.

01:00:43.360 --> 01:00:45.920
They set the bar so high. They beat the hell

01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:48.219
out of us when we were in the orientation there.

01:00:48.460 --> 01:00:51.340
But then there's other departments now where

01:00:51.340 --> 01:00:54.159
they fight very hard against their administration,

01:00:54.400 --> 01:00:57.079
sometimes even their own union, for even an annual.

01:00:57.579 --> 01:00:59.980
physical test you know people don't want to take

01:00:59.980 --> 01:01:02.280
a physical because it finds out wrong yeah well

01:01:02.280 --> 01:01:03.880
not even just the medical but the physical like

01:01:03.880 --> 01:01:07.219
it's unfair to ask me to to have to drag a hose

01:01:07.219 --> 01:01:09.500
and climb five floors you know and it's it's

01:01:09.500 --> 01:01:12.780
ridiculous so but it's a challenge exactly yes

01:01:12.780 --> 01:01:14.380
and that's the thing i can see with you it's

01:01:14.380 --> 01:01:16.519
pride you know and it's like you said it's the

01:01:16.519 --> 01:01:18.300
competitive nature which i think it should be

01:01:18.300 --> 01:01:21.460
in all of us but in your career at metro date

01:01:21.460 --> 01:01:24.820
and the department before what did they nurture

01:01:25.400 --> 01:01:28.480
that fitness where most people in pretty great

01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:33.639
shape well right now they they have a pretty

01:01:33.639 --> 01:01:35.739
good fitness program i'd like to go down there

01:01:35.739 --> 01:01:38.019
and see what it's like because it's a friend

01:01:38.019 --> 01:01:42.699
of mine that's running it but uh when i got on

01:01:42.699 --> 01:01:46.760
i got on you know obelaka like i say it was just

01:01:46.760 --> 01:01:50.199
a little department and about all it consisted

01:01:50.199 --> 01:01:56.780
of was running like 100 yards in less than 20

01:01:56.780 --> 01:02:01.880
minutes i remember the day that i ran and i had

01:02:01.880 --> 01:02:07.519
my i didn't have any running shoes and uh one

01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:11.219
of the guys that was there he ran first i said

01:02:11.219 --> 01:02:13.420
can i borrow your shoes the running shoes the

01:02:13.420 --> 01:02:18.539
same size and i used his shoes to run and then

01:02:18.539 --> 01:02:21.579
uh they took us over to the pool and they wanted

01:02:21.579 --> 01:02:26.039
us to do i remember doing sit -ups, and you're

01:02:26.039 --> 01:02:28.119
supposed to do like 20 sit -ups or something.

01:02:28.619 --> 01:02:33.599
I said, do I get extra points if I do more? I

01:02:33.599 --> 01:02:37.380
said, I'll do another 20 or 30 if you want. No,

01:02:37.579 --> 01:02:40.619
that's enough, that's enough. And this morning,

01:02:40.780 --> 01:02:44.260
it was ice cold. One of those days when the temperature

01:02:44.260 --> 01:02:46.619
goes down, it must have been 40 degrees, and

01:02:46.619 --> 01:02:50.320
I didn't really want to go in that water. I mean,

01:02:50.920 --> 01:02:52.920
I love the water, but not when it's ice cold.

01:02:54.179 --> 01:03:02.340
But I had to swim in the water. And because there

01:03:02.340 --> 01:03:07.019
was, I think, 15 or 20 people that came that

01:03:07.019 --> 01:03:11.539
they try out. And I'd say that at least 12 of

01:03:11.539 --> 01:03:13.699
them left when they found out that they had to

01:03:13.699 --> 01:03:16.559
go in that water. And I felt like leaving, but

01:03:16.559 --> 01:03:20.579
I thought, I need this job. And I jumped in there.

01:03:21.449 --> 01:03:24.329
Did the swim, which was nothing. I mean, if it

01:03:24.329 --> 01:03:26.010
had been warm water, I would have been playing.

01:03:26.630 --> 01:03:30.369
But I had to swim underwater, which that was

01:03:30.369 --> 01:03:33.769
the easiest part, and just swim up and down a

01:03:33.769 --> 01:03:36.550
couple times. And that's about all there was

01:03:36.550 --> 01:03:39.289
to it, you know, because it was a small department.

01:03:39.389 --> 01:03:42.610
They didn't have any real training program. They

01:03:42.610 --> 01:03:47.110
didn't have a tower to climb up and pull hoes

01:03:47.110 --> 01:03:54.150
or anything of that sort. taught me how to drive

01:03:54.150 --> 01:03:58.570
the fire truck. There was some warehouses right

01:03:58.570 --> 01:04:01.769
there near the fire station, and we'd take the

01:04:01.769 --> 01:04:04.690
fire truck over there and practice backing up

01:04:04.690 --> 01:04:08.030
and going forward and so forth. And there'd be

01:04:08.030 --> 01:04:11.650
three guys on a shift. There was two fire trucks

01:04:11.650 --> 01:04:16.050
and a rescue. We had a call. We each got in a

01:04:16.050 --> 01:04:18.630
different vehicle and went out. And this was

01:04:18.630 --> 01:04:24.639
after doing... doing the auto inspections. We

01:04:24.639 --> 01:04:28.079
put all the money and stuff away real fast, jump

01:04:28.079 --> 01:04:30.239
in the trucks and go to wherever the call was,

01:04:30.420 --> 01:04:33.719
put the fire out or treat the victim, whatever,

01:04:34.019 --> 01:04:38.619
and then come back and inspect cars again. One

01:04:38.619 --> 01:04:40.860
of the reasons why I reached out to Dominic Barbera

01:04:40.860 --> 01:04:43.099
is he was one of the first. medics that we had.

01:04:44.099 --> 01:04:47.679
So what was that like for you guys going from

01:04:47.679 --> 01:04:50.940
primarily fire to transitioning to the EMS stuff

01:04:50.940 --> 01:04:56.460
as well? Well, all we had in Opelika was first

01:04:56.460 --> 01:05:01.059
aid. And we would, anything that we couldn't

01:05:01.059 --> 01:05:05.420
do, we called rescue. I mean, we called the ambulance

01:05:05.420 --> 01:05:12.719
and the ambulance would come and so forth. But,

01:05:12.719 --> 01:05:15.980
you know, we had first aid equipment. I mean,

01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:19.599
somebody had a big cut or something. We bandaged

01:05:19.599 --> 01:05:25.659
it up and that sort of thing. But the EMT and

01:05:25.659 --> 01:05:29.079
the paramedic thing, they never got into that

01:05:29.079 --> 01:05:32.420
until I got onto the Dade County Fire Department.

01:05:33.400 --> 01:05:38.579
And then when I was on that department, on the

01:05:38.579 --> 01:05:43.170
Dade County, They told me and several other guys,

01:05:43.289 --> 01:05:46.190
you guys are going to go into training. You're

01:05:46.190 --> 01:05:50.309
going to do the EMT -2. It was called EMT -1

01:05:50.309 --> 01:05:54.550
and EMT -2, which now is called paramedic. And

01:05:54.550 --> 01:05:58.550
this friend of mine, Bill Maloney, who passed

01:05:58.550 --> 01:06:05.030
away since then, we were studying charts on different

01:06:05.030 --> 01:06:08.949
heart rhythms, you know, and that sort of thing.

01:06:10.039 --> 01:06:12.860
But about the time that I got through with the

01:06:12.860 --> 01:06:17.699
course, I got a chance to bid a station because

01:06:17.699 --> 01:06:20.599
I had enough seniority by then. And then I bid

01:06:20.599 --> 01:06:22.980
this station and I was on an engine. So I never

01:06:22.980 --> 01:06:26.340
used anything but the EMT stuff. No, I never

01:06:26.340 --> 01:06:29.559
got into the paramedics. And I was really a little

01:06:29.559 --> 01:06:32.579
afraid of it anyway because I went on a call.

01:06:32.699 --> 01:06:35.599
Even this was in Opelika. And when I pulled up

01:06:35.599 --> 01:06:38.460
on the scene, oh, my God, look at all that blood

01:06:38.460 --> 01:06:43.679
and stuff. turned out it was green paint brilliant

01:06:43.679 --> 01:06:51.920
yeah because that's like i said that's what brought

01:06:51.920 --> 01:06:54.599
me to dominic barbera who came on the show and

01:06:54.599 --> 01:06:57.800
sadly passed away recently um but yeah i mean

01:06:57.800 --> 01:07:00.159
to to see that i mean obviously he went very

01:07:00.159 --> 01:07:02.460
strongly into the the paramedic side and like

01:07:02.460 --> 01:07:04.860
he worked rescue his his whole career didn't

01:07:04.860 --> 01:07:07.440
he i believe or at least for a large part um

01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:13.619
and uh Yeah, it's crazy when I hear my generation,

01:07:13.719 --> 01:07:16.960
I've been on 15 years and even younger, kind

01:07:16.960 --> 01:07:18.800
of beating their chest and saying, oh, I just

01:07:18.800 --> 01:07:20.599
want to do the fire stuff. And it's like, well,

01:07:20.760 --> 01:07:23.199
I'm sorry, you entered a fire service where EMS

01:07:23.199 --> 01:07:26.300
is integrated. And I always give the example

01:07:26.300 --> 01:07:29.360
that you pull someone out of a fire and you lay

01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:32.079
them on the front lawn. Now what? If you've got

01:07:32.079 --> 01:07:34.960
no medical training, then you're kind of useless.

01:07:35.039 --> 01:07:40.199
So it's exciting now. to see where it is. But

01:07:40.199 --> 01:07:42.780
it must have been very interesting being anywhere

01:07:42.780 --> 01:07:45.820
that was purely fire and then having the EMS

01:07:45.820 --> 01:07:49.039
stuff, you know, slowly filter in. Well, I know

01:07:49.039 --> 01:07:54.119
that if I was a victim, I would rather have a

01:07:54.119 --> 01:07:59.179
paramedic attended to me than a doctor because

01:07:59.179 --> 01:08:01.780
most of these doctors want to sit in their office

01:08:01.780 --> 01:08:04.099
and prescribe pills or something of that sort.

01:08:05.630 --> 01:08:08.349
When it comes to emergency, they're not equipped

01:08:08.349 --> 01:08:12.130
for emergencies. They don't even know. I mean,

01:08:12.130 --> 01:08:14.409
there are emergency doctors. The guys that are

01:08:14.409 --> 01:08:18.590
at the hospital in the emergency room, I mean,

01:08:18.590 --> 01:08:23.069
they're really good. But these guys that are

01:08:23.069 --> 01:08:25.449
paramedics, I mean, they get so much training

01:08:25.449 --> 01:08:30.189
that in case of emergency, they're just as well,

01:08:30.390 --> 01:08:34.279
just as good, and I think better. than the average

01:08:34.279 --> 01:08:37.520
doctor would be. Don't you think so? I do. I

01:08:37.520 --> 01:08:39.579
had an example of that. And it's funny, this

01:08:39.579 --> 01:08:42.300
afternoon I'm going to interview a pediatric

01:08:42.300 --> 01:08:45.140
emergency physician who is amazing. He actually

01:08:45.140 --> 01:08:48.000
is the medical director for Coral Springs and

01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:53.119
the Parkland area fire departments. And I've

01:08:53.119 --> 01:08:54.699
had other ones that are in a similar position.

01:08:54.859 --> 01:08:56.779
And like you said, I would want them working

01:08:56.779 --> 01:08:59.760
on my family any day of the week. But the other

01:08:59.760 --> 01:09:02.300
people under the doctor umbrella, I was on a

01:09:02.300 --> 01:09:05.819
plane and a gentleman collapsed and they kind

01:09:05.819 --> 01:09:07.760
of did the hierarchy announcement. Is there a

01:09:07.760 --> 01:09:09.439
doctor on the plane? Is there a nurse? And they

01:09:09.439 --> 01:09:12.380
finally got down to paramedic. It was several

01:09:12.380 --> 01:09:16.579
job descriptions later. And so I came along and

01:09:16.579 --> 01:09:20.159
there's like three or four people hunched around

01:09:20.159 --> 01:09:22.119
this person telling each other how important

01:09:22.119 --> 01:09:24.699
they were. One guy taking a blood pressure, not

01:09:24.699 --> 01:09:26.180
even using a stethoscope, just using the cuff

01:09:26.180 --> 01:09:29.119
and holding the wrist. And then they all kind

01:09:29.119 --> 01:09:33.359
of went away. And I said to the stewardess, I'm

01:09:33.359 --> 01:09:35.739
like, would you mind if I assess this guy from

01:09:35.739 --> 01:09:37.979
the beginning? And I ended up sitting with him

01:09:37.979 --> 01:09:39.579
the rest of the flight. But it was just observing.

01:09:40.140 --> 01:09:43.500
They had no sense. I don't mean that in a mean

01:09:43.500 --> 01:09:46.300
way, but they had no experience assessing an

01:09:46.300 --> 01:09:49.000
emergency. So they may be amazing chiropodists

01:09:49.000 --> 01:09:50.840
or, you know, whatever their speciality was.

01:09:51.560 --> 01:09:53.659
But, yeah, when it comes to emergency medicine.

01:09:54.460 --> 01:09:57.659
The EMTs and the medics and then the ER physicians

01:09:57.659 --> 01:10:00.479
and nurses are a completely different breed than

01:10:00.479 --> 01:10:04.979
the rest of the medical community. I remember

01:10:04.979 --> 01:10:09.180
one day at the fire station, I got something

01:10:09.180 --> 01:10:12.380
caught in my throat and I start coughing and

01:10:12.380 --> 01:10:16.789
sort of choking. And I thought... Damn, I better

01:10:16.789 --> 01:10:19.670
run outside. These guys are going to cry me.

01:10:22.329 --> 01:10:27.810
I didn't want them to practice on me. Start heimlicking

01:10:27.810 --> 01:10:31.430
the hell out of you. All right. Well, I know

01:10:31.430 --> 01:10:33.829
we've been going almost an hour and a half, and

01:10:33.829 --> 01:10:35.470
I want to be mindful of your time. So I want

01:10:35.470 --> 01:10:37.489
to transition to a couple of closing questions

01:10:37.489 --> 01:10:41.250
I like to ask everyone. But before I do that,

01:10:41.270 --> 01:10:43.840
I've got one extra question for you. You did

01:10:43.840 --> 01:10:47.140
the Spartan Race with me. We were lucky enough

01:10:47.140 --> 01:10:48.979
to run side by side, and I'm so glad because

01:10:48.979 --> 01:10:51.500
we got to meet with the Operation Enduring Warrior

01:10:51.500 --> 01:10:53.539
and the GIVE team and all those other great organizations

01:10:53.539 --> 01:10:57.359
that we're running. You have done skydiving recently,

01:10:57.460 --> 01:10:59.800
is that right? Or you're about to do one with

01:10:59.800 --> 01:11:01.619
Jonathan? That's what my daughter said. I did

01:11:01.619 --> 01:11:04.060
a tandem jump. I just thought it would be nice

01:11:04.060 --> 01:11:09.100
to do something special like for my birthday.

01:11:09.319 --> 01:11:11.359
It turned out that I didn't do it on my birthday.

01:11:11.359 --> 01:11:14.739
Seventy -third, okay. And it looked like it would

01:11:14.739 --> 01:11:18.500
be fun. So I went. And, of course, it's not the

01:11:18.500 --> 01:11:24.119
same as being a skydiver, you know, jumping out

01:11:24.119 --> 01:11:26.619
on your own and so forth. I went with a guy,

01:11:26.659 --> 01:11:29.880
and he didn't look like he was suicidal. And

01:11:29.880 --> 01:11:35.500
we had a good time. I forgot. In fact, I don't

01:11:35.500 --> 01:11:36.939
know if I would have made it if it was on my

01:11:36.939 --> 01:11:40.300
own because I forgot to pull a ripcord. He was

01:11:40.300 --> 01:11:43.569
going like this. The guy was taking a picture

01:11:43.569 --> 01:11:47.109
there, another sky. And I was having so much

01:11:47.109 --> 01:11:50.310
fun and smiling and my cheeks are flapping up

01:11:50.310 --> 01:11:54.829
and down. I mean, it's hilarious when you see

01:11:54.829 --> 01:11:59.710
the movie and my cheeks are going. But he finally

01:11:59.710 --> 01:12:03.210
pulled the ripcord himself and everything was

01:12:03.210 --> 01:12:06.550
all right. But he probably has the same problem

01:12:06.550 --> 01:12:10.350
with other people that he takes up. To him, I

01:12:10.350 --> 01:12:15.390
was thinking. It's similar to when I take people

01:12:15.390 --> 01:12:18.930
out diving, and they're having a good time or

01:12:18.930 --> 01:12:22.229
something, but they forget about certain things

01:12:22.229 --> 01:12:25.069
that they've got to do or shouldn't do, and you

01:12:25.069 --> 01:12:28.029
just have to watch them. Reel them in. And he

01:12:28.029 --> 01:12:30.850
was kind of watching me, looking out for me.

01:12:30.989 --> 01:12:33.529
Especially as he was attached to you. Yeah. It's

01:12:33.529 --> 01:12:37.109
a weird thing. I did a skydive in New Zealand,

01:12:37.170 --> 01:12:41.409
actually, in Tapao, I think. Where? Tapao. I

01:12:41.409 --> 01:12:44.409
think it was Tupau, T -A -U -P -A -U. Oh, Taupo.

01:12:44.409 --> 01:12:46.649
Oh, Taupo. You didn't understand because I said

01:12:46.649 --> 01:12:49.569
it completely wrong. Lake Taupo. Lake Taupo,

01:12:49.569 --> 01:12:51.489
that's right. Beautiful. And I'm not going to

01:12:51.489 --> 01:12:55.649
lie. I consider myself somewhat brave. I was

01:12:55.649 --> 01:12:59.550
terrified before that and finally got up there.

01:12:59.810 --> 01:13:02.689
I'll never forget because when we were in a tandem.

01:13:03.239 --> 01:13:05.199
they're sitting on the plane about to jump out

01:13:05.199 --> 01:13:06.960
you're not even touching the plane anymore you're

01:13:06.960 --> 01:13:09.119
strapped to them like a baby in a harness that

01:13:09.119 --> 01:13:11.560
is the most bizarre feeling but when i hit the

01:13:11.560 --> 01:13:14.180
ground i was literally ready to sign up to become

01:13:14.180 --> 01:13:17.340
an instructor that that fear of the unknown was

01:13:17.340 --> 01:13:19.699
what i was scared of and and the the experience

01:13:19.699 --> 01:13:23.899
was so much fun so yeah it was it was to me it

01:13:23.899 --> 01:13:28.380
was similar to diving because with that amount

01:13:28.380 --> 01:13:31.779
of airflow it was like being in the water i could

01:13:32.350 --> 01:13:35.130
do the same thing in the air that I could do

01:13:35.130 --> 01:13:37.210
in the water, whereas normally that wouldn't

01:13:37.210 --> 01:13:40.630
make any difference. But that pressure, you know,

01:13:40.689 --> 01:13:44.369
and I was getting a really big kick out of it.

01:13:44.409 --> 01:13:48.770
It was so much fun. But you almost forget about

01:13:48.770 --> 01:13:51.090
the fact that you're falling. The ground's coming

01:13:51.090 --> 01:13:55.069
down. Because Jonathan Lopez was talking about

01:13:55.069 --> 01:13:57.869
trying to get you up there again. Yeah, I know.

01:13:58.250 --> 01:14:00.630
Is that something that you're thinking of doing?

01:14:01.210 --> 01:14:02.909
I don't have to commit on the microphone right

01:14:02.909 --> 01:14:07.609
now. I don't know. At my age, that's one thing

01:14:07.609 --> 01:14:10.470
about being old. You don't have too much to lose.

01:14:11.529 --> 01:14:15.529
My grandmother, I remember the first time she

01:14:15.529 --> 01:14:18.250
got on an airplane, she was 80 years old. This

01:14:18.250 --> 01:14:20.210
was her first flight, and somebody asked her,

01:14:20.310 --> 01:14:23.350
aren't you afraid, a little afraid of going on

01:14:23.350 --> 01:14:25.869
an airplane? She says, I'm 80 years old now,

01:14:25.930 --> 01:14:29.979
so I don't have anything. to worry about it's

01:14:29.979 --> 01:14:31.380
a good way of looking at it like we talked about

01:14:31.380 --> 01:14:34.479
though with the whole calibration thing my grandmother's

01:14:34.479 --> 01:14:37.319
about to turn 102 my granddad actually got cancer

01:14:37.319 --> 01:14:40.979
at 99 and the bizarre thing was the doctor said

01:14:40.979 --> 01:14:43.439
physiologically he was so young that it spread

01:14:43.439 --> 01:14:46.279
through him like a younger person so i think

01:14:46.279 --> 01:14:48.779
normally in the elderly it doesn't spread very

01:14:48.779 --> 01:14:51.560
fast um so i think without the cancer he'd probably

01:14:51.560 --> 01:14:54.680
made it several more years but it's so funny

01:14:54.680 --> 01:14:57.399
because you talk about the younger friends And

01:14:57.399 --> 01:15:01.239
they lived in this, you know, little English

01:15:01.239 --> 01:15:03.880
street. And we'd ask them, you know, is it nice?

01:15:04.100 --> 01:15:05.760
And they'd go, yeah, it's okay, but it's just

01:15:05.760 --> 01:15:07.640
full of old people. And these, quote, unquote,

01:15:07.720 --> 01:15:09.619
old people would be like 20 years younger than

01:15:09.619 --> 01:15:13.760
they were. But, again, it's that mindset. That's

01:15:13.760 --> 01:15:16.460
what a lot of people, when they move, like, to

01:15:16.460 --> 01:15:20.460
assisted living or something like that, that's

01:15:20.460 --> 01:15:22.460
the first thing they say is, oh, there's nothing

01:15:22.460 --> 01:15:26.739
but a bunch of old people there. yeah exactly

01:15:26.739 --> 01:15:29.039
well then speaking of that and so so skydiving

01:15:29.039 --> 01:15:31.020
or not is there anything on your list because

01:15:31.020 --> 01:15:32.479
you just finished the spartan race the other

01:15:32.479 --> 01:15:38.579
day that you want to do next well it seemed like

01:15:38.579 --> 01:15:41.880
about the only thing left is base jumping and

01:15:41.880 --> 01:15:46.170
it doesn't That's a little scary looking to me.

01:15:46.229 --> 01:15:48.109
I don't think you can get distracted when you're

01:15:48.109 --> 01:15:51.829
bass jumping. No. I wouldn't bring the cameraman

01:15:51.829 --> 01:15:54.470
with you on that one. No, I don't think I've

01:15:54.470 --> 01:15:58.350
even got a cameraman to go. I don't know if I'd

01:15:58.350 --> 01:16:00.949
ever get to that or not. Maybe I can figure something

01:16:00.949 --> 01:16:08.149
else. But it's just that when you reach a certain

01:16:08.149 --> 01:16:15.380
milestone in your life, doing something a little

01:16:15.380 --> 01:16:18.979
bit different, I think. You know, like maybe

01:16:18.979 --> 01:16:28.079
when you're turning 50 the first time, you ride

01:16:28.079 --> 01:16:31.399
a motorcycle or something of that sort. In fact,

01:16:31.539 --> 01:16:35.460
that happened to my mother when she was 80. Who

01:16:35.460 --> 01:16:37.500
was it that took her for a motorcycle ride and

01:16:37.500 --> 01:16:42.159
she enjoyed it? My mother was, she was quite,

01:16:43.319 --> 01:16:48.840
Easy to, I mean, she would like challenges herself.

01:16:49.560 --> 01:16:52.939
I mean, she didn't talk about it much or anything,

01:16:53.000 --> 01:16:57.279
but if there was a challenge that she could do,

01:16:57.359 --> 01:17:00.560
she probably would do it. Brilliant. And I think

01:17:00.560 --> 01:17:01.840
that's the thing, is like I was saying, with

01:17:01.840 --> 01:17:06.279
my fear of skydiving, which I was, what was I,

01:17:06.340 --> 01:17:10.079
27 when I finally did? But what a horrible feeling.

01:17:10.590 --> 01:17:12.229
to have never done something because you were

01:17:12.229 --> 01:17:14.229
scared and then finally try it when you were

01:17:14.229 --> 01:17:17.829
60 70 80 and then realize that you love it and

01:17:17.829 --> 01:17:19.710
you could have been doing it for for decades

01:17:19.710 --> 01:17:23.850
well it'd be quite expensive to be doing it for

01:17:23.850 --> 01:17:27.109
decades yeah that's true now one more thing before

01:17:27.109 --> 01:17:28.630
we go to the closing question i meant to ask

01:17:28.630 --> 01:17:30.750
you way back when we were talking about coming

01:17:30.750 --> 01:17:33.989
back from the war and this is purely a selfish

01:17:33.989 --> 01:17:37.430
question for me education wise but a big core

01:17:37.430 --> 01:17:41.329
of this podcast is spreading the compassion and

01:17:41.329 --> 01:17:44.689
kindness and people's powerful stories and solutions

01:17:44.689 --> 01:17:46.510
to some of the problems, whether it's food or

01:17:46.510 --> 01:17:49.810
medicine. But one thing that baffles me, and

01:17:49.810 --> 01:17:51.310
I haven't really had many people that could answer

01:17:51.310 --> 01:17:54.470
this because they weren't there then, is how

01:17:54.470 --> 01:17:57.529
we went from, as a nation, and this is England

01:17:57.529 --> 01:18:02.689
too, so not just picking on America, a war where

01:18:02.689 --> 01:18:04.510
we were fighting predominantly to protect...

01:18:04.890 --> 01:18:07.329
a different religion a lot of the the jewish

01:18:07.329 --> 01:18:09.909
people were fighting alongside all these different

01:18:09.909 --> 01:18:13.090
nationalities how we found ourselves in certain

01:18:13.090 --> 01:18:17.489
areas in the 50s with so much prejudice and racism

01:18:17.489 --> 01:18:21.350
what would did you did you witnessing that with

01:18:21.350 --> 01:18:24.270
your own eyes see how that came about or was

01:18:24.270 --> 01:18:27.210
it just the the minority got so much you know

01:18:27.210 --> 01:18:33.369
well growing up i was very aware of it but uh

01:18:34.409 --> 01:18:38.390
In the Army, we had a couple of black guys that

01:18:38.390 --> 01:18:41.510
were just another guy, like on the fire department.

01:18:41.710 --> 01:18:48.069
I mean, Joe Blow and this guy and that guy were

01:18:48.069 --> 01:18:51.250
all in this together. They're no different than

01:18:51.250 --> 01:18:53.909
me, except maybe he's a little darker than I

01:18:53.909 --> 01:18:56.310
am or I'm a little whiter than he is or so forth.

01:18:56.890 --> 01:19:04.109
But I remember at the... which was the public

01:19:04.109 --> 01:19:06.810
relations office that we worked in where I was

01:19:06.810 --> 01:19:10.250
a photographer, and a couple of correspondents

01:19:10.250 --> 01:19:14.590
there. And they were just sitting around talking

01:19:14.590 --> 01:19:19.170
one day. And one of them said, you know, it's

01:19:19.170 --> 01:19:22.829
a funny thing. He says, you know, like all, and

01:19:22.829 --> 01:19:24.930
these guys have been all through the war, and

01:19:24.930 --> 01:19:28.649
not like me. I just got over. He said, you know.

01:19:29.340 --> 01:19:32.859
The Italians and the Irish and the Jewish and

01:19:32.859 --> 01:19:37.300
all. We were all buddies over here fighting together

01:19:37.300 --> 01:19:43.920
and saving each other. And what about the black

01:19:43.920 --> 01:19:48.800
people? But I was taught as a child, though,

01:19:48.920 --> 01:19:52.239
you know, to treat everybody the same. But I

01:19:52.239 --> 01:19:55.539
could see that it wasn't done. You know, it wasn't

01:19:55.539 --> 01:19:59.279
that way. And, you know, you've got to. Remember,

01:19:59.460 --> 01:20:03.819
I'm from the 20s and 30s when they used to have

01:20:03.819 --> 01:20:09.079
signs, black here, whites here. And when I went

01:20:09.079 --> 01:20:12.460
to Norfolk, I mean, that was back in the 50s

01:20:12.460 --> 01:20:17.819
and 60s after the war. They would still try to

01:20:17.819 --> 01:20:21.159
make the blacks go to the back of the bus and

01:20:21.159 --> 01:20:24.619
whites in the front and so forth. And of course,

01:20:24.619 --> 01:20:28.260
that's when it all... Really, as you say, shit

01:20:28.260 --> 01:20:39.420
hit the fan because President Kennedy started

01:20:39.420 --> 01:20:49.039
the whole thing as far as segregation in the

01:20:49.039 --> 01:20:54.600
schools and everything else. And there was, well...

01:20:55.659 --> 01:20:59.779
In Alabama and Mississippi and those places where

01:20:59.779 --> 01:21:03.180
people were actually being murdered, you know,

01:21:03.279 --> 01:21:06.420
just for standing up for what they believed in.

01:21:06.819 --> 01:21:11.279
It was a pretty terrible time. Yeah, but that's

01:21:11.279 --> 01:21:14.640
what I have so much, you know, so many problems

01:21:14.640 --> 01:21:17.920
understanding is, like you said, you stand side

01:21:17.920 --> 01:21:20.760
by side with people of all colors and creeds

01:21:20.760 --> 01:21:23.840
and you fight what truly at that time was evil.

01:21:24.350 --> 01:21:26.770
I mean, you know, no one can argue that. And

01:21:26.770 --> 01:21:29.970
then you come back to America, England, and then

01:21:29.970 --> 01:21:32.329
you're lynching people. And we had the same.

01:21:32.430 --> 01:21:35.489
We had the, what was it called, the wind? I forget

01:21:35.489 --> 01:21:37.670
the name now. There was this famous ship that

01:21:37.670 --> 01:21:40.029
first brought people from, I think it was the

01:21:40.029 --> 01:21:44.689
islands, Jamaica, I think, to England. And there

01:21:44.689 --> 01:21:47.270
was a big opposition to that. And I don't understand

01:21:47.270 --> 01:21:50.930
how you can go through hell. side by side with

01:21:50.930 --> 01:21:52.789
these people and the same with the fire service

01:21:52.789 --> 01:21:54.329
especially when we're wearing our gear you can't

01:21:54.329 --> 01:21:57.590
tell what sex color creed we are but then be

01:21:57.590 --> 01:22:00.670
so in you know inherently racist to the point

01:22:00.670 --> 01:22:04.649
where you would kill just years after these people

01:22:04.649 --> 01:22:06.909
have you know protected your country and you

01:22:06.909 --> 01:22:09.329
fought alongside them maybe it's not the people

01:22:09.329 --> 01:22:11.149
that were ever fighting alongside actually did

01:22:11.149 --> 01:22:13.789
that but to the next worst thing is to stand

01:22:13.789 --> 01:22:19.600
by and let it happen So, yeah, as a younger person,

01:22:19.779 --> 01:22:24.779
my granddad was in World War II, I'm trying to

01:22:24.779 --> 01:22:29.720
figure out how we got to that point. Yeah, but

01:22:29.720 --> 01:22:34.640
I think really, though, it helped in a way because

01:22:34.640 --> 01:22:42.560
I know a lot of Italians and Irish after the

01:22:42.560 --> 01:22:48.199
war. you go see your buddy and he's Italian,

01:22:48.340 --> 01:22:53.079
but your sister likes this guy. And, you know,

01:22:53.159 --> 01:22:59.159
they get married. And I think except for the

01:22:59.159 --> 01:23:03.100
blacks, it seemed like there was always this

01:23:03.100 --> 01:23:07.039
prejudice against blacks. But as far as like

01:23:07.039 --> 01:23:10.399
the Italians and the Irish and the Germans, I

01:23:10.399 --> 01:23:17.359
don't think there's as much. prejudice, if you

01:23:17.359 --> 01:23:22.680
want to call it that, with them after the war

01:23:22.680 --> 01:23:26.500
as there was before the war. But as far as the

01:23:26.500 --> 01:23:33.060
blacks, I mean, even during the war, there was

01:23:33.060 --> 01:23:36.779
a lot of prejudice with the blacks and so forth.

01:23:37.340 --> 01:23:42.600
And this one group, was it the Toscanini Air

01:23:42.600 --> 01:23:46.159
Force? Yes. Yes. They're just now getting credit

01:23:46.159 --> 01:23:49.720
for what they did during the war. And it's not

01:23:49.720 --> 01:23:55.399
right. And yet the general, what's his name?

01:23:55.720 --> 01:24:03.119
He's a black man, and here he's a general. So

01:24:03.119 --> 01:24:08.239
there's got to have been a change of some sort.

01:24:08.680 --> 01:24:14.939
But some people just never change. You just have

01:24:14.939 --> 01:24:18.520
to put up with them until they die. Well, and

01:24:18.520 --> 01:24:19.899
that's the thing. When you breed them out, so

01:24:19.899 --> 01:24:22.579
you raise your children, the next generation.

01:24:23.399 --> 01:24:24.960
to understand that. My little boy actually was

01:24:24.960 --> 01:24:28.319
asking about it the other day. He asked me, was

01:24:28.319 --> 01:24:31.239
there historically as much racism towards Spanish

01:24:31.239 --> 01:24:33.800
people? I mean, that's a very interesting point.

01:24:33.840 --> 01:24:36.159
But I think because California, Florida, a lot

01:24:36.159 --> 01:24:38.760
of the southern states, yeah, we had, we neighbor

01:24:38.760 --> 01:24:41.079
with them. I don't think it was as bad. Yes,

01:24:41.079 --> 01:24:43.680
you know, there is to this day. But I told him

01:24:43.680 --> 01:24:47.239
like, you know, Irish were, which again is ridiculous

01:24:47.239 --> 01:24:50.899
because I'm English, which means English, Irish,

01:24:50.939 --> 01:24:54.020
Scottish. I mean, we're two little tiny rocks

01:24:54.020 --> 01:24:55.920
in the middle of the ocean. None of us are pure

01:24:55.920 --> 01:24:58.859
Irish or pure Scottish. So even that is insanity

01:24:58.859 --> 01:25:01.399
to come over here and then be prejudiced against

01:25:01.399 --> 01:25:03.460
people that are from the exact same place as

01:25:03.460 --> 01:25:06.939
you. So there's, yeah, it's insanity. But I really

01:25:06.939 --> 01:25:08.039
appreciate your perspective. And sometimes it's

01:25:08.039 --> 01:25:12.399
the reverse, too, that certain groups are prejudiced

01:25:12.399 --> 01:25:15.979
against us. Oh, yeah, exactly. Prejudice is,

01:25:16.060 --> 01:25:20.210
yeah, it's a... a horrendous philosophy that

01:25:20.210 --> 01:25:21.850
can be taken by anyone no matter what you look

01:25:21.850 --> 01:25:24.430
like the best thing just judge a person by what

01:25:24.430 --> 01:25:28.770
he is yes by their actions absolutely all right

01:25:28.770 --> 01:25:31.210
well thank you so much for that perspective um

01:25:31.210 --> 01:25:33.329
all right so the the first closing question i

01:25:33.329 --> 01:25:35.390
love to ask and i'm very intrigued to hear your

01:25:35.390 --> 01:25:38.329
your i'm afraid of this one they're pretty simple

01:25:38.329 --> 01:25:40.670
it shouldn't be too scary um is there a book

01:25:40.670 --> 01:25:43.710
that you love to recommend it can be about what

01:25:43.710 --> 01:25:45.369
we've talked about or it can be something completely

01:25:45.369 --> 01:25:53.300
different it can be fiction anything Well, actually,

01:25:53.420 --> 01:25:59.840
I don't do a whole lot of reading, but I read

01:25:59.840 --> 01:26:03.279
a book one time, and it was called How to Win

01:26:03.279 --> 01:26:05.979
Friends and Influence People. Is it Dale Carnegie?

01:26:08.579 --> 01:26:12.939
And I remember that book so well. When I was

01:26:12.939 --> 01:26:17.600
knocking on doors, and somebody would come to

01:26:17.600 --> 01:26:23.340
the door nasty, really you know insulting i'd

01:26:23.340 --> 01:26:26.560
say oh and sir you just want a new book called

01:26:26.560 --> 01:26:29.199
how to win friends and influence people you'll

01:26:29.199 --> 01:26:33.300
get it in the next mail i'll just had to yeah

01:26:33.300 --> 01:26:38.100
you can you can definitely say no thank you to

01:26:38.100 --> 01:26:40.779
a cold call without being oh yeah an a -hole

01:26:40.779 --> 01:26:44.960
you can hit people being nice just as well as

01:26:44.960 --> 01:26:48.050
you can being nasty absolutely that's the way

01:26:48.050 --> 01:26:52.529
women do it but they call that the oh my goodness

01:26:52.529 --> 01:26:55.170
what's that term where you're you're seeming

01:26:55.170 --> 01:26:56.609
like you're being nice but you're actually not

01:26:56.609 --> 01:27:00.770
something hostility anyway i forget um all right

01:27:00.770 --> 01:27:03.229
the next question is there a movie that you love

01:27:03.229 --> 01:27:12.979
you mean beside tarzan uh i'm just joking Brilliant.

01:27:12.979 --> 01:27:15.199
And what about a documentary? You mentioned that

01:27:15.199 --> 01:27:16.880
earlier. Is there a documentary that you love?

01:27:18.119 --> 01:27:21.180
There's something I can't think. Actually, we

01:27:21.180 --> 01:27:27.020
watch more things on the Animal Channel and National

01:27:27.020 --> 01:27:31.100
Geographic. Because I love animals and stuff

01:27:31.100 --> 01:27:38.279
like that. Fascinating. Right offhand, I can't

01:27:38.279 --> 01:27:42.390
think of a documentary that I... would really

01:27:42.390 --> 01:27:45.069
uh that i can remember right off hand anyway

01:27:45.069 --> 01:27:46.869
okay no but that's good it's funny my sister

01:27:46.869 --> 01:27:49.590
actually works for works for the bbc and does

01:27:49.590 --> 01:27:51.289
a lot of the editing the richard attenborough

01:27:51.289 --> 01:27:54.750
planet earth oh yeah that kind of ones yeah yeah

01:27:54.750 --> 01:27:57.569
she's worked with him so brilliant all right

01:27:57.569 --> 01:27:59.810
so then the next question this would be an interesting

01:27:59.810 --> 01:28:02.369
one is there a person that you would recommend

01:28:02.369 --> 01:28:05.609
to do an interview like this to talk to the first

01:28:05.609 --> 01:28:07.949
responders and military of the world as a guest

01:28:07.949 --> 01:28:12.670
estimation of people that I admire would be some

01:28:12.670 --> 01:28:17.750
of the people at the YMCA. They may not be out

01:28:17.750 --> 01:28:22.829
doing Spartan things and stuff like that, but

01:28:22.829 --> 01:28:27.010
they're incredible athletes, and they do some

01:28:27.010 --> 01:28:31.329
of the things that I wish I could do. I go to

01:28:31.329 --> 01:28:35.170
this gymnastics class, and they see him. She'll

01:28:35.170 --> 01:28:37.550
tell Pepe, oh, he goes to the gymnastics class.

01:28:39.850 --> 01:28:43.649
they think that i do gymnastics i go to the gymnastics

01:28:43.649 --> 01:28:46.489
class and i try to imitate what they're doing

01:28:46.489 --> 01:28:50.250
and and i'm probably the class clown because

01:28:50.250 --> 01:28:53.710
if they took a movie they could say now this

01:28:53.710 --> 01:28:56.229
is the right way and here's monty we'll show

01:28:56.229 --> 01:28:59.329
you the wrong way that's because i was going

01:28:59.329 --> 01:29:00.689
to ask you about it so there's a picture of you

01:29:00.689 --> 01:29:03.250
in a gymnastics area doing a handstand against

01:29:03.250 --> 01:29:06.619
a wall so that's the class yeah okay Because,

01:29:06.619 --> 01:29:08.220
I mean, trust me. Where did you get that picture?

01:29:08.859 --> 01:29:12.600
Your daughter sent a bunch to the Spartan people.

01:29:12.800 --> 01:29:14.819
And so she forwarded me that. So, yeah, I got

01:29:14.819 --> 01:29:18.079
you holding a gun. I got you in front of the

01:29:18.079 --> 01:29:21.520
fire engine. I got a whole Monty album. That

01:29:21.520 --> 01:29:24.899
was basic training. We just took some pictures

01:29:24.899 --> 01:29:29.100
and stuff there. People. Well, I'm glad, though.

01:29:29.140 --> 01:29:31.100
I'm glad you didn't get to fire it. I mean, that's

01:29:31.100 --> 01:29:34.930
the thing. I'm glad that it ended the way it

01:29:34.930 --> 01:29:38.670
did. And I always say that about that war is

01:29:38.670 --> 01:29:41.029
whatever we think about some of the ones that

01:29:41.029 --> 01:29:44.609
have happened since, my dad tried to force me,

01:29:44.649 --> 01:29:46.090
not force me, that's the wrong word, but tried

01:29:46.090 --> 01:29:49.390
to encourage me to become a PTI, physical training

01:29:49.390 --> 01:29:52.789
instructor in the British military. But the Falklands

01:29:52.789 --> 01:29:56.569
War just happened. And from what I can tell,

01:29:56.710 --> 01:30:00.840
it seems like maybe diplomacy would have... fix

01:30:00.840 --> 01:30:02.619
that as well i don't know i wasn't there but

01:30:02.619 --> 01:30:06.659
i definitely saw how a government agency can

01:30:06.659 --> 01:30:09.340
literally cause a bloodshed of a huge amount

01:30:09.340 --> 01:30:12.420
of people but that being said world war ii i

01:30:12.420 --> 01:30:14.779
would have been first to sign up because there

01:30:14.779 --> 01:30:16.819
was no question that was truly well that was

01:30:16.819 --> 01:30:21.380
the feeling everywhere yeah nobody i wouldn't

01:30:21.380 --> 01:30:25.380
know if there was anybody that was against the

01:30:25.380 --> 01:30:27.880
war here i understand that there were some people

01:30:27.880 --> 01:30:34.609
but And everywhere that I was, you know, as a

01:30:34.609 --> 01:30:37.430
kid and so forth, all I could see was people

01:30:37.430 --> 01:30:42.770
that wanted to join up the service. My neighborhood

01:30:42.770 --> 01:30:45.930
where I worked, or where I lived, I should say,

01:30:46.029 --> 01:30:51.850
as a teenager, there was like about five different

01:30:51.850 --> 01:30:54.050
guys. We used to hang out together and so forth.

01:30:54.250 --> 01:30:59.060
And every one of them joined up. And one was

01:30:59.060 --> 01:31:01.439
in the Marines, one was in the Navy, one was

01:31:01.439 --> 01:31:03.859
in the Army, and so forth. Every one of us. And

01:31:03.859 --> 01:31:06.119
we all wanted to go. We wanted to get in there

01:31:06.119 --> 01:31:10.979
and get rid of these Japs and the Germans and

01:31:10.979 --> 01:31:14.199
so forth for all these atrocities and so forth

01:31:14.199 --> 01:31:19.159
that they've committed. I mean, we knew about

01:31:19.159 --> 01:31:22.619
the death march, you know, in the Philippines.

01:31:23.399 --> 01:31:29.680
And we knew about the... and with all the Jewish

01:31:29.680 --> 01:31:35.180
people. It was unbelievable that these things

01:31:35.180 --> 01:31:40.060
could happen, this murder on a scale like that.

01:31:41.840 --> 01:31:46.300
I remember one of the guys at the fire station

01:31:46.300 --> 01:31:49.000
one day was saying, why don't we stop trying

01:31:49.000 --> 01:31:53.420
to be the policemen of the world and stuff. It's

01:31:53.420 --> 01:31:55.590
something about... What do we care about those

01:31:55.590 --> 01:32:04.729
Germans? And anyway, I was telling him about

01:32:04.729 --> 01:32:08.609
some of the things that the Germans did, you

01:32:08.609 --> 01:32:12.250
know, that he didn't know anything about. You

01:32:12.250 --> 01:32:14.810
know, the other day at the store, and I said,

01:32:14.810 --> 01:32:21.399
you got a veteran's discount? She said, I don't

01:32:21.399 --> 01:32:25.439
know whether I did or not. Well, what war were

01:32:25.439 --> 01:32:27.619
you? Oh, the Second World War. When was that?

01:32:27.779 --> 01:32:33.539
Was that when we were fighting with, I don't

01:32:33.539 --> 01:32:36.439
know who it was, but she had no idea. Yeah, and

01:32:36.439 --> 01:32:38.800
that's the problem. You can't learn from history.

01:32:39.520 --> 01:32:41.420
It's going to repeat itself if you don't teach

01:32:41.420 --> 01:32:44.300
it. Get that in school? I mean, we learned about

01:32:44.300 --> 01:32:47.479
World War I, but we went to school. But then

01:32:47.479 --> 01:32:52.390
we have a... a disneyfied version of our history

01:32:52.390 --> 01:32:55.529
sometimes too like we're not taught here what

01:32:55.529 --> 01:32:58.189
we did when we first settled i say we my people

01:32:58.189 --> 01:33:00.069
you know the british and spanish and the portuguese

01:33:00.069 --> 01:33:02.470
and everyone else that came around the world

01:33:02.470 --> 01:33:04.890
and and you know invaded people's countries but

01:33:04.890 --> 01:33:07.310
yeah we need to teach them about the smallpox

01:33:07.310 --> 01:33:10.350
blankets and the genocide that we did and you

01:33:10.350 --> 01:33:12.909
know so i mean the british were the first i believe

01:33:12.909 --> 01:33:15.489
to do um concentration camps in the boer war

01:33:16.120 --> 01:33:19.279
We invented them, you know. So we need to teach

01:33:19.279 --> 01:33:22.659
that. And I have to give it to when I was younger,

01:33:22.720 --> 01:33:24.760
they were pretty open. Same as the BBC is today.

01:33:24.979 --> 01:33:28.159
They just tell it as it is, you know. Yeah, that's

01:33:28.159 --> 01:33:30.180
what I like about the BBC. Yeah, but that's the

01:33:30.180 --> 01:33:31.760
way we need to do it. I mean, we have to learn

01:33:31.760 --> 01:33:34.180
from what we did. The news is supposed to be.

01:33:34.260 --> 01:33:37.300
It's not supposed to be prejudiced. And, of course,

01:33:37.520 --> 01:33:41.100
it's not supposed to be fake news either. Well,

01:33:41.119 --> 01:33:42.399
I tell people all the time. I've said this on

01:33:42.399 --> 01:33:45.739
the podcast before. To me, a news is a person,

01:33:45.840 --> 01:33:48.479
a man or a woman, dressed nicely that says, here's

01:33:48.479 --> 01:33:51.600
what happened today, the end. And here, it's

01:33:51.600 --> 01:33:54.979
a divided TV screen into four quadrants with

01:33:54.979 --> 01:33:57.539
four people that aren't even actually that intelligent

01:33:57.539 --> 01:34:01.000
arguing with each other about something. Meanwhile,

01:34:01.199 --> 01:34:03.340
the actual real news is completely lost in the

01:34:03.340 --> 01:34:07.960
conversation. So it's not news. It's an angry

01:34:07.960 --> 01:34:10.579
debate from people who were either all the way

01:34:10.579 --> 01:34:12.100
left or all the way right, depending on what

01:34:12.100 --> 01:34:14.220
you're watching. Yeah, it's terrible. Well, at

01:34:14.220 --> 01:34:17.739
least like during the war, everybody was on the

01:34:17.739 --> 01:34:23.880
same page for at least 90 % or more. And there

01:34:23.880 --> 01:34:26.859
wasn't this bickering or anything. And President

01:34:26.859 --> 01:34:35.159
Roosevelt was, anything he did was good. They

01:34:35.159 --> 01:34:39.659
didn't want to get into this war, but at the

01:34:39.659 --> 01:34:43.119
same time, if it hadn't been for Roosevelt, we'd

01:34:43.119 --> 01:34:45.359
probably be going around saying heil hitler or

01:34:45.359 --> 01:34:47.659
something and they would have gotten the atomic

01:34:47.659 --> 01:34:51.239
bomb and we were sending stuff over there so

01:34:51.239 --> 01:34:55.619
fast they couldn't sink all the ships yeah and

01:34:55.619 --> 01:34:57.960
it's just like you were saying these horrible

01:34:57.960 --> 01:35:00.319
things happen and even even our profession in

01:35:00.319 --> 01:35:02.439
the fire service when when firefighters die when

01:35:02.439 --> 01:35:03.819
they're killed in the collapse or whatever it

01:35:03.819 --> 01:35:06.739
is if we don't learn from that we're not honoring

01:35:06.739 --> 01:35:10.500
the dead all the people that died in the first

01:35:10.500 --> 01:35:13.020
world war in vietnam whatever it was if we don't

01:35:13.020 --> 01:35:16.300
learn either better tactics within the military

01:35:16.300 --> 01:35:19.479
or better diplomacy to not even get into a conflict

01:35:19.479 --> 01:35:22.899
then we're dishonoring the ones that bled you

01:35:22.899 --> 01:35:26.020
know for our country so to not tell those stories

01:35:26.020 --> 01:35:28.600
in the schools and and to not tell them properly

01:35:28.600 --> 01:35:31.300
on the news as well is is a disgrace i think

01:35:31.300 --> 01:35:34.380
yeah all right well i think that's a great place

01:35:34.380 --> 01:35:37.520
to wrap up I just want to say thank you so much.

01:35:37.899 --> 01:35:40.939
It's an honor to have met you at the Spartan

01:35:40.939 --> 01:35:43.479
Race, but more importantly to sit down with you

01:35:43.479 --> 01:35:47.699
and talk to someone from another generation in

01:35:47.699 --> 01:35:50.159
the profession that I adore and I'm trying to

01:35:50.159 --> 01:35:54.079
help. But to invite me to your home and pour

01:35:54.079 --> 01:35:56.800
your heart out for an hour and a half, I really,

01:35:56.840 --> 01:35:59.819
really appreciate that. Well, it was my pleasure,

01:35:59.840 --> 01:36:01.680
and thank you very much.