WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.740 This episode is sponsored by TeamBuildr, yet 00:00:02.740 --> 00:00:04.860 another company that's doing great things for 00:00:04.860 --> 00:00:07.679 the first responder community. As a strength 00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:09.960 and conditioning coach myself who also trains 00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:13.140 tactical athletes, dissemination of wellness 00:00:13.140 --> 00:00:15.320 information is one of the biggest challenges. 00:00:15.980 --> 00:00:18.519 Now TeamBuildr is the premier strength and conditioning 00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:21.539 software for tactical athletes and there are 00:00:21.539 --> 00:00:24.839 several features that really impress me. Firstly, 00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:27.780 there is a full exercise library. So you, the 00:00:27.780 --> 00:00:29.940 personal trainer, does not have to create that 00:00:29.940 --> 00:00:33.060 within your own department. Secondly, you can 00:00:33.060 --> 00:00:36.020 send out programming, but also individualize, 00:00:36.060 --> 00:00:38.840 which I love. So you blanket program for everyone. 00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:41.780 Now you can tweak based on someone's injury, 00:00:41.979 --> 00:00:44.479 someone's need to maybe drop some body composition, 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:47.420 rather than having to write a program for every 00:00:47.420 --> 00:00:50.200 single person on their own. TeamBuildr also 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:52.679 allows you to build custom questionnaires to 00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:55.719 collate health and wellness data. It integrates 00:00:55.719 --> 00:00:58.280 with wearables. And I think one of the most important 00:00:58.280 --> 00:01:02.079 things is obviously it tracks. To me, it's imperative 00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:05.560 that we as a profession start tracking our people 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:09.439 from day one and then over the full span of their 00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:12.659 career, therefore catching potential wellness 00:01:12.659 --> 00:01:16.200 issues and injuries before they happen. Now, 00:01:16.219 --> 00:01:18.439 if you want to try TeamBuildr, they are offering 00:01:18.439 --> 00:01:20.760 you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast, 00:01:21.180 --> 00:01:25.359 a free 14 -day trial to experience all of the 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:27.900 features. And if you want to take a deeper dive 00:01:27.900 --> 00:01:32.439 into TeamBuildr, listen to episode 1032 with 00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:36.459 Melissa Mercado or go to teambuildr .com. And 00:01:36.459 --> 00:01:37.980 I'll spell that to you because it's not as you 00:01:37.980 --> 00:01:44.180 think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. This 00:01:44.180 --> 00:01:46.719 episode is sponsored by Bubs Naturals, yet another 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:49.319 company that I tracked down to bring on as a 00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:51.799 sponsor because I myself love their products. 00:01:52.299 --> 00:01:54.620 They are offering you the audience of the Behind 00:01:54.620 --> 00:01:57.420 the Shield podcast a 20 % discount. But before 00:01:57.420 --> 00:01:59.079 we get to that, I do want to highlight a few 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:02.420 of the products that I use myself. Firstly, collagen. 00:02:02.599 --> 00:02:06.700 I am about to turn 50, and so my hair, my skin, 00:02:06.900 --> 00:02:09.659 my nails, not really a big concern when I was 00:02:09.659 --> 00:02:11.800 younger, definitely a lot more of a concern now. 00:02:12.020 --> 00:02:14.879 However, where I've really seen the impact is 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:17.740 joint health and gut health, and I've been blown 00:02:17.740 --> 00:02:20.020 away that when I'm consistent using collagen, 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:23.719 Bubs Collagen in this case, I see a massive improvement 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:27.460 in both. Another area, I drink coffee, love coffee, 00:02:27.539 --> 00:02:31.020 and in the morning I use the Halo Creamer. used 00:02:31.020 --> 00:02:34.520 the MCT oil powder but now they have the Halo 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:36.979 Creamer which has also got grass -fed butter 00:02:36.979 --> 00:02:39.539 in it. A lot more creamy if you're not trying 00:02:39.539 --> 00:02:41.639 to go for the vegan option that they have as 00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:44.199 well. Now it's important to mention as well the 00:02:44.199 --> 00:02:47.289 altruistic element of Bubs Naturals. The origin 00:02:47.289 --> 00:02:50.189 story involves Glenn Bub Doherty, one of the 00:02:50.189 --> 00:02:53.189 two Navy SEALs killed in Benghazi, and a good 00:02:53.189 --> 00:02:56.710 friend of the founders, Sean and TJ. So 10 % 00:02:56.710 --> 00:03:00.270 of every single sale goes towards the Glenn Doherty 00:03:00.270 --> 00:03:02.689 Foundation. Now, as I mentioned before, they 00:03:02.689 --> 00:03:05.689 are offering you, the audience, 20 % off your 00:03:05.689 --> 00:03:09.129 purchase if you use the code SHIELD. That's S 00:03:09.129 --> 00:03:14.169 -H -I -E -L -D at bubsnaturals .com. And finally, 00:03:14.210 --> 00:03:15.889 if you want to hear more about their products 00:03:15.889 --> 00:03:19.069 and Glenn's powerful story, listen to episode 00:03:19.069 --> 00:03:25.310 558 with co -founder Sean Lake. Welcome to the 00:03:25.310 --> 00:03:27.069 Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my name 00:03:27.069 --> 00:03:29.129 is James Geering, and this week it is my absolute 00:03:29.129 --> 00:03:32.490 honor to welcome back onto the show the president 00:03:32.490 --> 00:03:37.430 of Pasco Firefighters, Dixon Phillips. Now, for 00:03:37.430 --> 00:03:39.270 those of you that heard my original conversation 00:03:39.270 --> 00:03:42.909 with Dixon, it was episode 879, and that was 00:03:42.909 --> 00:03:45.729 about a year and a half ago. Now, around the 00:03:45.729 --> 00:03:48.030 time of that interview, Pasco had just announced 00:03:48.030 --> 00:03:50.930 that they would be transitioning to the 24, 72, 00:03:51.409 --> 00:03:55.550 42 -hour firefighter work week. In this second 00:03:55.550 --> 00:03:58.669 conversation, we have now circled around 18 months 00:03:58.669 --> 00:04:01.689 later and Dixon is able to talk about all of 00:04:01.689 --> 00:04:03.750 the incredible things that have happened since 00:04:03.750 --> 00:04:06.810 they've made that announcement. So we discussed 00:04:06.810 --> 00:04:10.550 the huge uptick in both retention and recruitment, 00:04:10.930 --> 00:04:13.870 navigating some of the hurdles when it came to 00:04:13.870 --> 00:04:17.389 adding a D -shift, the incredible annual physicals 00:04:17.389 --> 00:04:20.250 that they have, access to mental health tools, 00:04:20.529 --> 00:04:23.769 how this movement may open the door to reciprocity. 00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:27.779 the near elimination of unneeded overtime, the 00:04:27.779 --> 00:04:30.959 huge groundswell movement of morale they've seen, 00:04:31.019 --> 00:04:34.079 and so much more. Now, before we get to this 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:36.540 incredible conversation, as I say every week, 00:04:36.660 --> 00:04:39.759 please just take a moment, go to whichever app 00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:42.339 you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, 00:04:42.540 --> 00:04:46.730 leave feedback, and leave a rating. Every single 00:04:46.730 --> 00:04:49.949 five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast, 00:04:50.250 --> 00:04:52.649 therefore making it easier for others to find. 00:04:52.850 --> 00:04:57.410 And this is a free library of well over 1 ,100 00:04:57.410 --> 00:05:01.589 episodes now. So all I ask in return is that 00:05:01.589 --> 00:05:04.629 you help share these incredible men and women's 00:05:04.629 --> 00:05:08.110 stories so I can get them to every single person 00:05:08.110 --> 00:05:11.689 on planet Earth who needs to hear them. So with 00:05:11.689 --> 00:05:14.750 that being said, I welcome back onto the show... 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:38.319 Dixon Phillips. Enjoy. Well, Dixon, I want to 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:41.540 start by saying simply welcome back to the Behind 00:05:41.540 --> 00:05:44.360 the Shield podcast. It's great to be here. Thank 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:46.980 you for having me. So we've actually seen each 00:05:46.980 --> 00:05:49.399 other a little bit recently. We did a presentation 00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:51.680 to the Florida Fire Chiefs Association. I'm sure 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:54.420 we'll get to that in a little while. And then 00:05:54.420 --> 00:05:57.660 the Florida Professional Firefighters, I was 00:05:57.660 --> 00:06:00.920 able to do a presentation on 2472 and you were 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:02.939 there as well. So it's been kind of cool the 00:06:02.939 --> 00:06:04.720 last few months. We've actually spent quite a 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:07.120 lot of time together. It's been great, you know, 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:08.620 and it's great to just see kind of the word of 00:06:08.620 --> 00:06:11.279 the 2472 schedule. kind of getting around the 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:13.759 state everyone's really interested in it so um 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:17.019 it's been a pretty good year absolutely well 00:06:17.019 --> 00:06:19.699 i think there's no reason not to just jump into 00:06:19.699 --> 00:06:21.819 that topic first and then we're going to go into 00:06:21.819 --> 00:06:25.100 some other incredibly proactive initiatives that 00:06:25.100 --> 00:06:27.000 you guys are working on i think this is exactly 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:30.060 the story when you fix the environment now you 00:06:30.060 --> 00:06:32.519 can start really doubling down on the other areas 00:06:32.519 --> 00:06:36.459 that need work so the last time we spoke um you 00:06:36.459 --> 00:06:40.319 know you were earlier on in this process So I 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:43.100 think the thing that people are really hungry 00:06:43.100 --> 00:06:46.980 now for is to hear, okay, well, if we announce 00:06:46.980 --> 00:06:49.879 we are going to go to this new, healthier shift, 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:54.579 what are going to be the ways of us calculating 00:06:54.579 --> 00:06:57.379 how to transition? And then are these departments 00:06:57.379 --> 00:07:00.120 that are making this shift seeing the benefits, 00:07:00.180 --> 00:07:02.540 seeing the improvements that we're told are supposed 00:07:02.540 --> 00:07:08.680 to happen? Well, I think... First of all, it's 00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:10.319 been a great recruitment tool, right? So we talked 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:12.459 about in the first episode what that was going 00:07:12.459 --> 00:07:15.319 to do for us. We were expecting it to do. We're 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:16.939 in the process right now. We have interviews 00:07:16.939 --> 00:07:21.839 next week to hire our last new hire class. It's 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:23.860 been really cool to see the amount of seniority 00:07:23.860 --> 00:07:26.500 that has come in starting, you know, as a step 00:07:26.500 --> 00:07:29.000 one firefighter from other agencies. We've had 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:31.540 a couple of 20 year, you know, lieutenants and 00:07:31.540 --> 00:07:33.279 captains for their departments that have come 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:36.259 to Pasco to start out as a day one firefighter. 00:07:40.610 --> 00:07:43.970 And to touch on the other part of your question 00:07:43.970 --> 00:07:46.850 was the misconception kind of going around of 00:07:46.850 --> 00:07:49.149 that we have to hire an entire shift. We were 00:07:49.149 --> 00:07:50.810 actually texting back and forth about that the 00:07:50.810 --> 00:07:53.610 other day. We came from a six -week Kelly Day 00:07:53.610 --> 00:07:58.110 cycle. So you have extra slotted people to cover 00:07:58.110 --> 00:07:59.850 your vacancies that are created by your Kelly 00:07:59.850 --> 00:08:01.629 Days, whether it's a three -week or a six -week. 00:08:01.670 --> 00:08:03.149 So what we did was we took those numbers across 00:08:03.149 --> 00:08:05.750 all three shifts. and just applied them to d 00:08:05.750 --> 00:08:08.149 shift then we're going to hire the rest of it 00:08:08.149 --> 00:08:10.889 right which really about d shift was around 64 00:08:10.889 --> 00:08:14.269 65 people there were the other positions we had 00:08:14.269 --> 00:08:16.790 to hire over 100 to get to d shift but that was 00:08:16.790 --> 00:08:19.529 just to get us to minimum staffing so that's 00:08:19.529 --> 00:08:22.290 where that the large number came from you know 00:08:22.290 --> 00:08:23.990 and i think that a lot of people they don't understand 00:08:23.990 --> 00:08:28.250 that that thought um and they just think that 00:08:28.250 --> 00:08:29.889 oh we have to hire another you know depending 00:08:29.889 --> 00:08:31.589 on what your minimum staffing is we're gonna 00:08:31.589 --> 00:08:33.549 have to hire another 200 people to staff a shift 00:08:33.950 --> 00:08:36.690 And that's just not the case. Well, we've seen 00:08:36.690 --> 00:08:41.110 a local union respond to a news article, a union 00:08:41.110 --> 00:08:43.470 president saying exactly that. And what I've 00:08:43.470 --> 00:08:46.129 found is that the moment you hear, oh, we're 00:08:46.129 --> 00:08:48.250 going to have to hire that many people is like 00:08:48.250 --> 00:08:50.610 basically saying. We are completely unwilling 00:08:50.610 --> 00:08:52.870 to find the courage to actually move to this 00:08:52.870 --> 00:08:55.529 proactive shift for the benefit of our people 00:08:55.529 --> 00:08:57.870 and the people that we serve. It's so clear now 00:08:57.870 --> 00:09:01.590 because the evidence is irrefutable. So this 00:09:01.590 --> 00:09:03.669 is what really nauseates me. I know there's one 00:09:03.669 --> 00:09:07.789 here in North Florida that just proclaimed that. 00:09:07.809 --> 00:09:10.149 It's all over the internet. I know there's a 00:09:10.149 --> 00:09:14.610 very large municipal Texas department that their 00:09:14.610 --> 00:09:17.470 president has also said that will never happen 00:09:17.470 --> 00:09:19.909 in our department, even though I know. We know 00:09:19.909 --> 00:09:22.110 of their firefighters that have been trying to 00:09:22.110 --> 00:09:24.870 push this. So this is what really nauseates me 00:09:24.870 --> 00:09:27.570 is we are at a point now where the evidence is 00:09:27.570 --> 00:09:29.789 irrefutable. The science is irrefutable. And 00:09:29.789 --> 00:09:32.190 even now, two years of Florida departments that 00:09:32.190 --> 00:09:35.169 are making the shift, we now have this evidence 00:09:35.169 --> 00:09:37.009 to, like you said, you know, recruitment and 00:09:37.009 --> 00:09:40.070 some of the areas. So if you're still digging 00:09:40.070 --> 00:09:43.909 your heels in at this point, it really is a massive 00:09:43.909 --> 00:09:47.120 red flag of the cowardice in. whether it's a 00:09:47.120 --> 00:09:49.320 union organization, whether it's a fire chief, 00:09:49.419 --> 00:09:51.240 whether it's city and county council members, 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:55.279 if you are still refusing to acknowledge that 00:09:55.279 --> 00:09:57.419 this is the next step and it's going to save 00:09:57.419 --> 00:10:01.399 everything from money to lives, then now you 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:02.980 have to look in the mirror. Are you going to 00:10:02.980 --> 00:10:05.019 be part of the solution or are you going to step 00:10:05.019 --> 00:10:07.399 aside and let someone with the real courage, 00:10:07.500 --> 00:10:09.360 a real backbone, actually start leading their 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:15.269 people? 100%. I hate the word, you know, never. 00:10:15.409 --> 00:10:17.809 Right. It's never going to happen, whether that's 00:10:17.809 --> 00:10:19.610 because of you or because the other side of the 00:10:19.610 --> 00:10:22.269 table, you just have to continue to have the 00:10:22.269 --> 00:10:25.750 conversation and the facts. You know, they always 00:10:25.750 --> 00:10:27.549 tell the truth. Right. So when we look at the 00:10:27.549 --> 00:10:29.629 department in Texas that that you were talking 00:10:29.629 --> 00:10:32.049 about, we I think we were on Zoom with them for 00:10:32.049 --> 00:10:34.190 about two hours that one day, you know, and we've 00:10:34.190 --> 00:10:35.830 gotten all their you know, we got a lot of their 00:10:35.830 --> 00:10:38.769 numbers in their overtime is unbelievable. So 00:10:38.769 --> 00:10:41.289 like we talked about with Pasco County, we looked 00:10:41.289 --> 00:10:44.110 at our overtime numbers and in fiscal year 22, 00:10:44.230 --> 00:10:47.190 it cost the county $6 million for overtime. The 00:10:47.190 --> 00:10:49.490 next year it was $79 ,000 at a cost of five and 00:10:49.490 --> 00:10:52.950 a half. And then we signed the contract, cuts 00:10:52.950 --> 00:10:58.350 it almost in half in fiscal year 24. You don't 00:10:58.350 --> 00:11:00.350 stop having the conversation, right? You continue 00:11:00.350 --> 00:11:04.699 to find the ways that you can get it done. Some 00:11:04.699 --> 00:11:07.340 agencies are going to have to hire an entire 00:11:07.340 --> 00:11:09.179 four shift. They're like a 56 hour work week, 00:11:09.220 --> 00:11:13.100 right? They don't have Kelly days. But if you're 00:11:13.100 --> 00:11:15.399 in that situation, you need to be working to 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:17.059 just cutting the hours, right? You might not 00:11:17.059 --> 00:11:20.080 be able to go directly to a 24 72. That might, 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:22.200 it might take you years to get to that point. 00:11:22.299 --> 00:11:24.360 Okay. Well, how do we reduce the hours worked 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:27.940 right now today? and work our way to that 24 00:11:27.940 --> 00:11:30.179 -72. But we have to reduce the work week. A 56 00:11:30.179 --> 00:11:32.580 -hour work week is just not doable. We saw in 00:11:32.580 --> 00:11:34.600 the health and safety bill this year that the 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:36.639 state of Florida passed the recommendation as 00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:38.340 a 42 -hour work week. And that's because of all 00:11:38.340 --> 00:11:40.100 the studies that you've put out, right? It's 00:11:40.100 --> 00:11:41.960 not just because firefighters want to work less. 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:44.299 It's because science is telling us that working, 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:46.659 the shift schedule that we do is killing us. 00:11:48.820 --> 00:11:51.120 There's a very courageous department outside 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:53.970 the one we just talked about that are... pretty 00:11:53.970 --> 00:11:56.649 much about to go to 24 72 and it's phenomenal 00:11:56.649 --> 00:11:59.289 and hearing them talking about the plan i believe 00:11:59.289 --> 00:12:02.350 they went from no kelly and it's this is what's 00:12:02.350 --> 00:12:04.309 so exciting now now we're having this conversation 00:12:04.309 --> 00:12:06.070 of well how are you going to make it happen and 00:12:06.070 --> 00:12:08.190 this this department does it this way and this 00:12:08.190 --> 00:12:10.690 department does it this way and now there's all 00:12:10.690 --> 00:12:12.750 this innovation and then these knowledge sharing 00:12:12.750 --> 00:12:15.509 okay what was the stumbling block oh we needed 00:12:15.509 --> 00:12:17.529 more refrigerators or you know whatever the thing 00:12:17.529 --> 00:12:19.899 is So now these agencies are talking to each 00:12:19.899 --> 00:12:22.600 other and you're seeing some incredible ideas 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:24.659 coming out. And we'll get to reciprocity, but 00:12:24.659 --> 00:12:26.779 I think that's another great thing that's spawned 00:12:26.779 --> 00:12:30.019 from this. But with this one department, what 00:12:30.019 --> 00:12:32.820 they did is they are going to announce we are 00:12:32.820 --> 00:12:35.360 going to 2472. And I think in this particular 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:37.519 case, I think it's four years, if I'm not mistaken. 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:40.899 Year one was hire enough people. Because as you 00:12:40.899 --> 00:12:42.580 said, we need an entire shift. No one said it 00:12:42.580 --> 00:12:45.879 has to be in a year. So year one was to hire 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:49.799 enough people to cover. a six week Kelly. Because 00:12:49.799 --> 00:12:51.860 if you just go to Kelly days, as you know, I'm 00:12:51.860 --> 00:12:53.700 preaching to the choir here, you're punching 00:12:53.700 --> 00:12:56.419 even more holes in your staffing. So what ends 00:12:56.419 --> 00:12:58.580 up happening in the last place I did, you get 00:12:58.580 --> 00:13:01.480 offered your Kelly day first. So you end up working 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:03.639 that and that's time and a half of working a 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:05.460 shift that you used to get paid straight time 00:13:05.460 --> 00:13:07.419 for. So you've fixed nothing, you've made it 00:13:07.419 --> 00:13:10.139 even worse. But if you hire a recruit class that 00:13:10.139 --> 00:13:13.539 covers those Kelly days at straight time, that's 00:13:13.539 --> 00:13:15.740 year one, year two, now you go to a three day 00:13:15.740 --> 00:13:18.429 Kelly. That next class covers, so now we've got 00:13:18.429 --> 00:13:22.350 three days covered. The third year, they were 00:13:22.350 --> 00:13:25.830 doing a de -shift with debit days. And again, 00:13:25.990 --> 00:13:28.730 now the debit days are covered and the fourth 00:13:28.730 --> 00:13:32.850 year is all in de -shift. So again, this all 00:13:32.850 --> 00:13:35.730 stems from, if we say we are going to it in three 00:13:35.730 --> 00:13:38.149 years, four years, and then what ends up happening, 00:13:38.190 --> 00:13:39.870 I'm sure, is it's going to be quicker as it was 00:13:39.870 --> 00:13:42.340 with you. that's when you get the recruitment. 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:43.980 But if you say, oh, we're just going to go to 00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:47.080 Kelly or we'll look at it next contract, you 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:50.559 fix absolutely nothing by that point. A hundred 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:53.399 percent. You know, I mean, even ours, right? 00:13:53.460 --> 00:13:56.220 Ours was a two and a half year plan when we signed 00:13:56.220 --> 00:13:57.820 our contract, right? It was going to start on 00:13:57.820 --> 00:14:00.559 April 15th of 2026, which is the, you know, halfway 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:05.250 through the last year of our contract. The recruitment 00:14:05.250 --> 00:14:07.470 was just there to the point where we're going 00:14:07.470 --> 00:14:08.789 to start it early. We're going to start January 00:14:08.789 --> 00:14:11.889 25th of 2026. Like you said, the moment that 00:14:11.889 --> 00:14:14.289 you announce you're going to 2472, the floodgates 00:14:14.289 --> 00:14:16.629 open, especially if you're going to be a department 00:14:16.629 --> 00:14:18.870 out there in Texas where there aren't very many 00:14:18.870 --> 00:14:22.649 departments that have 2472s, if any. You're going 00:14:22.649 --> 00:14:26.870 to be one of the first. they're going to reap 00:14:26.870 --> 00:14:29.070 the benefits and then everyone else is going 00:14:29.070 --> 00:14:30.970 to see the success that happens there. And then 00:14:30.970 --> 00:14:32.549 they're going to fall in line. And like you talked 00:14:32.549 --> 00:14:34.149 about, I think you called it the second follower, 00:14:34.230 --> 00:14:37.309 right? You know, when we look at Florida, you 00:14:37.309 --> 00:14:40.110 know, Boca has had the 24 72 for, I believe over 00:14:40.110 --> 00:14:43.190 20 years, Boynton beach has had it well before 00:14:43.190 --> 00:14:46.470 us, you know, and then Pasco and Gainesville 00:14:46.470 --> 00:14:48.429 were kind of at the table negotiating it at the 00:14:48.429 --> 00:14:50.389 same time. Gainesville started theirs earlier. 00:14:51.210 --> 00:14:53.230 And now you just see all these other agencies 00:14:53.230 --> 00:14:56.950 in Florida. going to the 2472 or at least having 00:14:56.950 --> 00:14:58.769 the discussions and trying to come up with a 00:14:58.769 --> 00:15:01.389 plan to implement it. And that's what you're 00:15:01.389 --> 00:15:02.830 going to see, I think, all around the country. 00:15:02.929 --> 00:15:05.049 It's going to be the first few departments that 00:15:05.049 --> 00:15:08.190 change in their states where the 2472 is not 00:15:08.190 --> 00:15:11.110 common. They're going to reap all the benefits. 00:15:12.490 --> 00:15:13.990 Absolutely. I think that's the thing. I mean, 00:15:14.009 --> 00:15:16.370 ideally you're, you know, you're a thought leader 00:15:16.370 --> 00:15:18.210 in the space, you know, and you get, let's be 00:15:18.210 --> 00:15:19.669 honest, you get the cream of the crop at that 00:15:19.669 --> 00:15:22.490 point you do. And then you have the next group 00:15:22.490 --> 00:15:24.429 that are going to follow along and it's still 00:15:24.429 --> 00:15:25.629 going to be good. And then you're going to get 00:15:25.629 --> 00:15:28.210 your late adopters. And if you're a late adopter, 00:15:28.210 --> 00:15:30.309 everyone around you is now making that change. 00:15:31.110 --> 00:15:33.909 If you don't move, then you are literally going 00:15:33.909 --> 00:15:36.769 to have to explain to your people, your taxpayers 00:15:36.769 --> 00:15:40.250 that continue to pay the same rate of tax. Oh, 00:15:40.250 --> 00:15:41.970 we don't have enough firefighters now. We're 00:15:41.970 --> 00:15:43.190 going to have to close the station. We're going 00:15:43.190 --> 00:15:44.769 to have to shut down an engine, et cetera, et 00:15:44.769 --> 00:15:48.009 cetera. And, you know, I was having a great conversation 00:15:48.009 --> 00:15:49.850 with a police officer who now does background 00:15:49.850 --> 00:15:53.950 checks. He was saying for every employee that 00:15:53.950 --> 00:15:57.529 ends up being a bad hire costs about half a million 00:15:57.529 --> 00:16:00.659 dollars to get rid of. So you think about that 00:16:00.659 --> 00:16:03.080 as that bar is coming down, what are the likelihood 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:06.259 of mistakes, cowardice, coming in with injuries, 00:16:06.379 --> 00:16:08.919 deconditioned, all the things that you're a liability 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:11.580 at the front door? What's the downstream cost 00:16:11.580 --> 00:16:14.980 of that as well? Right. Something that no one 00:16:14.980 --> 00:16:18.580 ever thinks of, right? You know, like we had 00:16:18.580 --> 00:16:21.139 talked about in the first episode. You know, 00:16:21.139 --> 00:16:23.159 my department was kind of like the training grounds 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:24.840 for everyone else. Right. Because everyone else 00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:26.659 had a three week Kelly, you know, better pay, 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:32.379 better benefits overall. And when you start losing, 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:35.700 you know, your good ones. Right. Or your veterans. 00:16:35.740 --> 00:16:37.720 You know, when you're having 10 plus year guys 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:39.820 go to other agencies because they're working 00:16:39.820 --> 00:16:42.179 less hours or, you know, their overall benefit 00:16:42.179 --> 00:16:45.220 package is better. That becomes a problem. You 00:16:45.220 --> 00:16:47.519 know, it's a safety concern for the citizens, 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:51.080 you know, of that county or that city. And I 00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:53.179 think that's what needs to be said more, right? 00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:55.179 Like that was a big thing for us when we started 00:16:55.179 --> 00:16:56.759 having this conversation. We were out in the 00:16:56.759 --> 00:16:59.139 public talking about it and talking about, you 00:16:59.139 --> 00:17:01.240 know, the amount of experience that we were losing, 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:03.379 the amount of firefighters that we were losing. 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:05.960 And the public rallied behind us, you know, that 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:08.720 they want the best of the best to serve their 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:11.480 community. Then that should be expected by every 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:14.269 citizen. Well, I've made this point too, and 00:17:14.269 --> 00:17:16.450 it was in the presentation I did, you know, there's 00:17:16.450 --> 00:17:19.109 that slide and it says, whose fault is it? And 00:17:19.109 --> 00:17:21.609 it's, you know, everyone's fault. And, you know, 00:17:21.630 --> 00:17:24.829 at the chief and then, you know, county city 00:17:24.829 --> 00:17:28.349 commission level, I say, have you gone to your 00:17:28.349 --> 00:17:30.470 constituency and said, we're going to give you 00:17:30.470 --> 00:17:33.299 a tax refund? because the delivery of service 00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:35.299 got worked. We're understaffed. We shut down 00:17:35.299 --> 00:17:37.160 vehicles. We browned out stations, whatever the 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:39.799 thing is. Now we've got our ambulances running 00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:41.720 into facility transports rather than being ready 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:44.559 for 911. So we're going to give you 30 % of your 00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:47.099 taxes back. No, of course you're not. So the 00:17:47.099 --> 00:17:49.500 civilians are expecting the same level of service 00:17:49.500 --> 00:17:52.299 that they got 10 years ago when everything was 00:17:52.299 --> 00:17:55.829 a lot better. So even at that level, it's smoke 00:17:55.829 --> 00:17:58.829 and mirrors. And when that's revealed, your political 00:17:58.829 --> 00:18:01.670 career is done if you are hiding that from the 00:18:01.670 --> 00:18:04.789 people that pay your salary. Right. Well, talk 00:18:04.789 --> 00:18:07.950 about our elected officials. I think a lot of 00:18:07.950 --> 00:18:09.329 the reasons why they might be against something 00:18:09.329 --> 00:18:11.910 is because they don't understand it. And that's 00:18:11.910 --> 00:18:13.289 when we have to start getting into that education 00:18:13.289 --> 00:18:15.069 level. And that was the things we were doing 00:18:15.069 --> 00:18:16.990 when we were going through our negotiations and 00:18:16.990 --> 00:18:18.950 even leading up to it. We started having the 00:18:18.950 --> 00:18:21.329 conversations with the commissioners and explaining. 00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:23.619 all the facts that we had you know the amount 00:18:23.619 --> 00:18:26.140 of money that was being spent on overtime or 00:18:26.140 --> 00:18:28.640 people coming in and leaving right the amount 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:30.220 of money that was just walking out the door with 00:18:30.220 --> 00:18:32.640 them uh talking about our overtime hours the 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:34.900 the mental health crisis that's in the fire service 00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:37.319 you know the lack of recovery the lack of sleep 00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:40.119 the giant increase in call volume oh and also 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:42.720 a lack of service delivery and you know we were 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:45.880 very fortunate in pasco county that all five 00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:47.599 of our commissioners you know they were on board 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:51.700 they supported it um You know, we added we put 00:18:51.700 --> 00:18:53.920 more trucks on the road and then obviously they 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:55.980 supported the contract for the D shift to get 00:18:55.980 --> 00:18:58.920 more firefighters into Pasco County. So but that 00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:01.480 took time and it took education in building relationships. 00:19:01.660 --> 00:19:03.599 And that's that's what really needs to happen. 00:19:03.660 --> 00:19:07.420 If if you're in a if you're a local or a department 00:19:07.420 --> 00:19:09.700 that is running into issues with getting the 00:19:09.700 --> 00:19:11.799 approval from the elected officials to transition 00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:14.500 to the shift, if that's the roadblock, you have 00:19:14.500 --> 00:19:16.880 to build that relationship and educate them until 00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:18.579 they realize that this is a no brainer. Right, 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:21.329 because that's. Truly, that's what I believe 00:19:21.329 --> 00:19:24.089 it is. It's a lack of information, a lack of 00:19:24.089 --> 00:19:26.390 education from them understanding it. And that's 00:19:26.390 --> 00:19:27.789 the reason why they might be standing in the 00:19:27.789 --> 00:19:32.390 way. It's amazing where the roadblocks are in 00:19:32.390 --> 00:19:34.650 every single rank. I mean, you and I have both 00:19:34.650 --> 00:19:37.369 seen this. People at the firefighter, engineer, 00:19:37.569 --> 00:19:40.670 lieutenant level saying, oh, the 4896 is better 00:19:40.670 --> 00:19:45.450 than 2472. And what you're saying is that a 56 00:19:45.450 --> 00:19:47.990 -hour workweek is better than a 42 -hour workweek. 00:19:48.349 --> 00:19:50.369 So firstly, I don't know how you got it through 00:19:50.369 --> 00:19:52.410 Fire Academy with that kind of math anyway. But 00:19:52.410 --> 00:19:55.309 secondly, for the love of God, look in the mirror 00:19:55.309 --> 00:19:58.150 and listen to yourself, what you're saying, because 00:19:58.150 --> 00:20:00.089 you're fighting against the very progress we're 00:20:00.089 --> 00:20:02.890 fighting for. You and I also did a presentation 00:20:02.890 --> 00:20:05.730 to the Florida Fire Chiefs Association. And I'm 00:20:05.730 --> 00:20:07.849 not lumping every chief under this because obviously 00:20:07.849 --> 00:20:11.910 they are spoken for by a group. But in response 00:20:11.910 --> 00:20:18.690 to that, the the 42 hour. not mandate, but the 00:20:18.690 --> 00:20:21.750 recommendation that was put out, they, behind 00:20:21.750 --> 00:20:26.009 closed doors, but the email was given to a lot 00:20:26.009 --> 00:20:30.650 of us, they publicly opposed moving to a 42 -hour 00:20:30.650 --> 00:20:32.390 workweek. Now, these are people that work 40 00:20:32.390 --> 00:20:34.589 hours a week, they go home to their family at 00:20:34.589 --> 00:20:37.670 5 o 'clock every night, are saying, our firefighters 00:20:37.670 --> 00:20:41.390 don't deserve to work less than 56 hours. So 00:20:41.390 --> 00:20:44.170 whether it's the firefighter that's saying that 00:20:44.170 --> 00:20:47.299 a 56 -hour workweek is better than a 42, or a 00:20:47.299 --> 00:20:49.319 chief's organization that's publicly opposing 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:52.880 this move, those kind of human beings need to 00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:55.200 be brought into the spotlight. And again, like 00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:57.220 you said, educated. And then if they go, oh, 00:20:57.240 --> 00:20:58.660 my goodness, I never thought about it that way. 00:20:58.740 --> 00:21:02.839 I was wrong. Awesome. Carry on. Or removed if 00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:05.619 they are, you know, truly a barrier, because 00:21:05.619 --> 00:21:09.140 now we're seeing who are the real leaders. It 00:21:09.140 --> 00:21:10.880 can be at the probie level. It can be at the 00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:13.380 chief level. But we're seeing who the real leaders 00:21:13.380 --> 00:21:15.799 are that are advocating for their people. And 00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:17.740 we're seeing who the people are that are only 00:21:17.740 --> 00:21:20.059 worried about their salary or their promotional 00:21:20.059 --> 00:21:25.019 career. Yeah, it was pretty disappointing to 00:21:25.019 --> 00:21:27.559 see, you know, the Florida Fire Chiefs Association 00:21:27.559 --> 00:21:29.680 stand opposed to the recommendation. You know, 00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:32.440 I think a lot of it is probably fear that locals 00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:34.059 around the state are going to use it at the bargaining 00:21:34.059 --> 00:21:39.960 table. You know, that recommendation came because 00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:42.839 it's science -based, right? And we look at a 00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:47.730 career that is... becoming truly science -based 00:21:47.730 --> 00:21:50.710 profession, right? All of your fire engineering 00:21:50.710 --> 00:21:53.089 studies or any medical journals that are coming 00:21:53.089 --> 00:21:55.650 out, right? Our business changes every day and 00:21:55.650 --> 00:21:59.450 improves every day. So to oppose the health and 00:21:59.450 --> 00:22:01.690 safety bill that recommends a 42 -hour work week 00:22:01.690 --> 00:22:05.009 because it's safer for your firefighters and 00:22:05.009 --> 00:22:08.890 it will give them hopefully a healthy retirement 00:22:08.890 --> 00:22:12.650 and life, right? That was extremely disappointing. 00:22:13.579 --> 00:22:16.480 And but seeing that just makes me very grateful 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:19.640 for for my fire chief. You know, he supports 00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:24.099 us 100 percent. You know, every time that he 00:22:24.099 --> 00:22:26.160 speaks in public, he talks about the men and 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:28.319 women that work for Pasco County. He truly is 00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:32.619 a servant leader. And seeing the things that 00:22:32.619 --> 00:22:34.519 are said around the state from other chiefs and 00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:37.619 other organizations, it makes me very, very thankful 00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:40.660 to have to have Ryan Gwynn as my fire chief in 00:22:40.660 --> 00:22:43.250 Pasco County. Yeah, and we had chiefs up on the 00:22:43.250 --> 00:22:45.789 stage with us as part of the panel. Yes, we did. 00:22:46.089 --> 00:22:50.970 I want to be very deliberate. There are some 00:22:50.970 --> 00:22:53.049 great ones out there, but this is what happens 00:22:53.049 --> 00:22:54.890 when you allow other people to speak for you, 00:22:54.970 --> 00:22:56.970 especially in that way, because there was no 00:22:56.970 --> 00:22:59.869 sense behind it, including the fiscal side. You 00:22:59.869 --> 00:23:03.210 are also saying, I don't want to fix the economic 00:23:03.210 --> 00:23:06.529 drowning that's going on for my city or my county. 00:23:07.050 --> 00:23:08.609 Right. And then one of the other things they 00:23:08.609 --> 00:23:11.029 said, right, was that we have 1500 vacancies 00:23:11.029 --> 00:23:13.130 already throughout the state and we have fire 00:23:13.130 --> 00:23:14.930 academies throughout the state that can't produce 00:23:14.930 --> 00:23:17.829 enough people to to fill the seats as is. And, 00:23:17.829 --> 00:23:19.589 you know, it kind of brought the question up. 00:23:19.650 --> 00:23:23.190 OK, so where's reciprocity? Right. It's it. It's 00:23:23.190 --> 00:23:25.069 unbelievably difficult to become a firefighter 00:23:25.069 --> 00:23:26.430 in the state of Florida if you were a firefighter 00:23:26.430 --> 00:23:29.740 elsewhere. And we're one of the few states. that 00:23:29.740 --> 00:23:33.000 doesn't allow reciprocity or recognize pro board 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:35.579 and that needs to change if you're saying that 00:23:35.579 --> 00:23:38.380 we have vacancies right now we know the population 00:23:38.380 --> 00:23:40.500 throughout florida is growing every single day 00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:43.500 so our public safety is going to have to increase 00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:45.640 every single day this is an issue whether you 00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:48.220 agree with the 24 72 or not this is an issue 00:23:48.220 --> 00:23:50.619 today how do we solve this problem instead of 00:23:50.619 --> 00:23:52.680 coming you know my mom always taught me don't 00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:54.339 come to me with a problem come to me with a solution 00:23:54.339 --> 00:23:56.799 you know i mean it would be very easy for the 00:23:56.799 --> 00:23:59.180 florida fire station to advocate for reciprocity 00:23:59.600 --> 00:24:02.640 And all of us get on board on pushing this. It 00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:04.680 makes sense. We do it already for law enforcement 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:06.579 in the state of Florida. Why would we not do 00:24:06.579 --> 00:24:09.880 it for firefighters as well? So I think that 00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:11.839 most of the arguments, the reasons why they stand 00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:16.779 opposed to it, they're not arguments. With all 00:24:16.779 --> 00:24:18.299 due respect, I think most of them are bullshit. 00:24:19.859 --> 00:24:22.740 It's cowardice. I mean, I'll say it. I'm not 00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:25.240 an agency. It is. I see it. We're in a profession 00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:28.890 that demands courage. Whether it's on a burning 00:24:28.890 --> 00:24:31.250 building or the edge of a freaking high rise 00:24:31.250 --> 00:24:33.730 on a rope, whatever it is, we are a profession 00:24:33.730 --> 00:24:36.349 that knows what courage looks like. And if you're 00:24:36.349 --> 00:24:39.210 going to vehemently oppose something that's going 00:24:39.210 --> 00:24:42.190 to benefit everyone at every level, then there's 00:24:42.190 --> 00:24:44.609 only one reason. And to me, it's glaringly obvious. 00:24:45.579 --> 00:24:47.900 With the reciprocity, I think that's an extremely 00:24:47.900 --> 00:24:49.900 exciting proposition. I know Gainesville had 00:24:49.900 --> 00:24:51.839 talked about that because what we're seeing is 00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:53.700 a lot of these departments are young because 00:24:53.700 --> 00:24:56.819 of this retention issue. And so, you know, they 00:24:56.819 --> 00:24:59.279 don't want to promote people too early. And I 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:01.519 could not agree more. I think we promote too 00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:04.759 early as it is. So bringing in experience from 00:25:04.759 --> 00:25:07.019 other places, you know, not even poaching, just, 00:25:07.099 --> 00:25:08.339 you know, you've got someone in Seattle that 00:25:08.339 --> 00:25:10.460 just simply wants to move to Florida, you know, 00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:12.950 or vice versa. You know, being able to do that. 00:25:12.990 --> 00:25:16.230 But this what also needs to be discussed is why 00:25:16.230 --> 00:25:19.589 is there this this void? Because when you and 00:25:19.589 --> 00:25:21.910 I were testing, you know, I mean, basically up 00:25:21.910 --> 00:25:24.490 to about 10 years ago, I was testing 22 years 00:25:24.490 --> 00:25:27.809 ago now. You know, you were testing against thousands 00:25:27.809 --> 00:25:31.089 of people for a handful of jobs, 10, 20, 30 jobs. 00:25:31.450 --> 00:25:34.210 So where's the question of what the hell happened? 00:25:34.670 --> 00:25:37.089 And so, you know, but what we need to lean into 00:25:37.089 --> 00:25:39.700 is because it was only 10 years ago. We are a 00:25:39.700 --> 00:25:42.400 profession that used to be incredibly competitive. 00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:44.900 So it's not like, oh, where are we going to get 00:25:44.900 --> 00:25:46.680 these other firefighters from? Firstly, you've 00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:48.759 got to say, well, how the hell do we fuck it 00:25:48.759 --> 00:25:50.920 up so bad that we went from thousands to none? 00:25:51.220 --> 00:25:53.400 That's on us. I'm not hearing that conversation, 00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:56.480 the ownership. But then secondly, we can get 00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:59.460 back there because we were there before. Because 00:25:59.460 --> 00:26:01.799 it's not about stealing each other's firefighters 00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:04.819 until there's none left. As we heal this profession. 00:26:05.559 --> 00:26:08.220 This next generation is going to be excited about 00:26:08.220 --> 00:26:10.740 coming back in. So there's a lot of people that 00:26:10.740 --> 00:26:12.480 have certs that haven't done it that will come 00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:14.539 back in. There's a lot of young people that will 00:26:14.539 --> 00:26:16.599 actually lean back into the fire service. Now 00:26:16.599 --> 00:26:19.539 they read and realize, okay, if I work at Pasco, 00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:22.119 this is the work week. These are the mental health 00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:25.680 tools that they have. This is the fitness standards, 00:26:25.779 --> 00:26:27.640 and we'll get to all those. That sounds like 00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:29.779 an organization that really wants me to succeed. 00:26:30.019 --> 00:26:34.000 I'm going to go test there. So all these different 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:37.660 conversations, will create a U -turn. We will 00:26:37.660 --> 00:26:40.420 fix the fire service again. But the first thing 00:26:40.420 --> 00:26:42.240 that a lot of these older leaders have got to 00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.000 say is, I'm the reason this thing's fucked up 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:47.460 in the first place. And so rather than say, it'll 00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:49.880 never happen, or we need to happen in a year, 00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:52.680 own your shit, realize you spent the last 10 00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:55.599 plus years fucking this whole thing up, and now 00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:58.920 let's start turning it around. But if you are 00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:02.339 all about opposing... solutions without acknowledging 00:27:02.339 --> 00:27:04.779 that you are literally part of the reason that 00:27:04.779 --> 00:27:07.000 this happened in the first place. I think that's 00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:08.299 another reason that we're seeing resistance. 00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:11.220 Yeah, absolutely. I think that just goes to the 00:27:11.220 --> 00:27:14.680 talking point that we just continue to do everything 00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:17.119 the same, right? We have no change. We hear that 00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:18.539 issue at the Florida Fire Chiefs Association 00:27:18.539 --> 00:27:22.700 conference about the 1 ,500 vacancies throughout 00:27:22.700 --> 00:27:24.339 the state. But what are we doing? Are we doing 00:27:24.339 --> 00:27:27.180 anything different to fix that? No. There's no 00:27:27.180 --> 00:27:30.880 recruitment. There's no recruitment to get into 00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:34.720 the fire service. They'll recruit you to go work 00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:36.680 for Enterprise on every commercial that's on 00:27:36.680 --> 00:27:39.019 TV, but we have nothing to bring you into the 00:27:39.019 --> 00:27:41.299 fire service. The younger generation, we all 00:27:41.299 --> 00:27:43.599 know, is looking for a work -life balance. That 00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:47.019 is what is happening. That's the transition we're 00:27:47.019 --> 00:27:50.720 seeing. If you want to get people into the fire 00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:53.180 service, you improve the work -life balance. 00:27:53.259 --> 00:27:59.069 You reduce the hours. We extend our lives. mental 00:27:59.069 --> 00:28:01.589 health and physical health as a priority, you 00:28:01.589 --> 00:28:03.450 know, not on the back burner as something that 00:28:03.450 --> 00:28:07.630 we'll think about later down the road. We have 00:28:07.630 --> 00:28:09.930 to change. I think we're going to change. I think 00:28:09.930 --> 00:28:11.890 that we do have leaders, you know, throughout 00:28:11.890 --> 00:28:13.710 the Florida Fire Chiefs Association. I think 00:28:13.710 --> 00:28:16.730 we have leaders throughout the state that are 00:28:16.730 --> 00:28:19.869 working on turning this thing around. You know, 00:28:19.869 --> 00:28:22.670 the reciprocity issue, I mean, Gainesville's 00:28:22.670 --> 00:28:25.089 100 % correct. We're seeing it, right? I mean, 00:28:25.089 --> 00:28:29.069 we're getting in a lot of seniority. I would 00:28:29.069 --> 00:28:31.730 say probably around 40%. The other 60%, you know, 00:28:31.750 --> 00:28:33.430 they're brand new, brand new kids right out of 00:28:33.430 --> 00:28:35.930 fire school. You know, we're promoting, we promoted 00:28:35.930 --> 00:28:38.329 a lot of captains, a lot of drivers to get to 00:28:38.329 --> 00:28:40.890 D shift. You know, a lot of them, we didn't reduce 00:28:40.890 --> 00:28:43.230 the standard of time required to sit. So none 00:28:43.230 --> 00:28:45.309 of our standards changed or the classes required, 00:28:45.509 --> 00:28:49.750 but you're seeing a lot of, you know, day one, 00:28:49.809 --> 00:28:51.809 I hit my time that I can get promoted and we're 00:28:51.809 --> 00:28:53.690 promoting them, you know, and it's definitely, 00:28:53.789 --> 00:28:57.430 I don't know if it's a fear, but it is, it is 00:28:57.430 --> 00:28:59.819 something that, That we should address in the 00:28:59.819 --> 00:29:01.960 way that we should do it is allow reciprocity. 00:29:02.380 --> 00:29:04.759 You know, a firefighter in Georgia, been a firefighter 00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:07.500 there for 10 years. Why can you not be a firefighter 00:29:07.500 --> 00:29:09.480 in Florida? To me, it doesn't make sense. Every 00:29:09.480 --> 00:29:11.920 department has an onboarding process. You know, 00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:13.940 for us, you come up to training, you do six weeks 00:29:13.940 --> 00:29:15.720 at the training center. Then you have a two month 00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:17.920 orientation out in the field before you get the 00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:20.680 blessing to go out on your own. The department 00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:23.299 is the one that should decide whether or not 00:29:23.299 --> 00:29:25.700 this person can perform as a firefighter for 00:29:25.700 --> 00:29:28.319 their agency. If you can't cut it. Your probation 00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:31.539 is rejected and, you know, we move on to the 00:29:31.539 --> 00:29:34.660 next one. But to ask someone from another state, 00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:37.240 I mean, I've been in the fire service for 10 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:39.660 years. I would sit down at that state exam and 00:29:39.660 --> 00:29:41.880 I know that I would fail it. So we're going to 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:43.819 expect, you know, 10 plus year firefighters from 00:29:43.819 --> 00:29:45.859 other states to come down here, take the written 00:29:45.859 --> 00:29:48.200 challenge it, you know, pass and then go take, 00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:52.539 you know, the physical portion or the practical 00:29:52.539 --> 00:29:55.980 portion. It just doesn't make sense to me. You 00:29:55.980 --> 00:29:57.579 know, I think that we could streamline this process, 00:29:57.720 --> 00:29:59.259 get more people in the door, get experience in 00:29:59.259 --> 00:30:01.319 the door, you know, make Florida a safer state 00:30:01.319 --> 00:30:03.519 to live in, make your counties and cities safer 00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:05.859 places to live in, safer places to work. I just 00:30:05.859 --> 00:30:08.559 think it makes sense. And I think that's an easy, 00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:13.119 immediate response to the problem that we have. 00:30:13.279 --> 00:30:15.940 And then we work on the other things, you know, 00:30:15.940 --> 00:30:20.359 as we can move on. Well, I'm a product of reciprocity. 00:30:20.829 --> 00:30:23.210 I was a Florida trained firefighter, got hired 00:30:23.210 --> 00:30:25.730 in Anaheim, which arguably had one of the most 00:30:25.730 --> 00:30:29.250 aggressive probations out there. So, yeah, when 00:30:29.250 --> 00:30:32.470 I went over there, you know, we weren't big on 00:30:32.470 --> 00:30:34.390 vertical ventilation in the fire academy. I was 00:30:34.390 --> 00:30:36.529 taught to lay the ladder down and then walk the 00:30:36.529 --> 00:30:38.930 rungs up and then, you know, stand to the side 00:30:38.930 --> 00:30:41.089 of it and flip it and balance it with the halyard 00:30:41.089 --> 00:30:43.130 and all this ridiculous things that we teach 00:30:43.130 --> 00:30:45.589 in the fire academy. And I get there day one 00:30:45.589 --> 00:30:47.049 and they're like, no, no, no, we spike it here. 00:30:48.109 --> 00:30:50.849 24 high shoulder spike, you know, don't rotate 00:30:50.849 --> 00:30:53.569 it, tie it off, get up there. Right. This is 00:30:53.569 --> 00:30:56.130 vertical ventilation. This is, you know, this 00:30:56.130 --> 00:30:58.849 is a flat roof, you know, pitch construction, 00:30:59.049 --> 00:31:00.589 all these different things, bowstring. And you're 00:31:00.589 --> 00:31:03.029 like, okay, I am so out of my depth here. But 00:31:03.029 --> 00:31:06.650 I was a firefighter. So it was either learn or 00:31:06.650 --> 00:31:08.809 get out. And I learned and I ended up, you know, 00:31:08.809 --> 00:31:12.230 being at the right level with all my California 00:31:12.230 --> 00:31:15.049 trained classmates by the end of the academy 00:31:15.049 --> 00:31:17.490 and certainly by the end of the year. of probation 00:31:17.490 --> 00:31:20.549 so you still have an aggressive probation to 00:31:20.549 --> 00:31:22.430 make sure that if you hired the wrong person 00:31:22.430 --> 00:31:25.869 or you know they could only you know get to a 00:31:25.869 --> 00:31:27.730 certain standard in their state and maybe they 00:31:27.730 --> 00:31:29.730 weren't the right fit for you then okay okay 00:31:29.730 --> 00:31:31.970 you know no one's saying you let everyone in 00:31:31.970 --> 00:31:34.710 but the piece of paper like you said that says 00:31:34.710 --> 00:31:37.210 i can pull hose off a rig i can throw a ladder 00:31:37.210 --> 00:31:41.369 you know i can um you know operate the extrication 00:31:41.369 --> 00:31:44.849 tools like There is no difference between California 00:31:44.849 --> 00:31:48.029 and Florida and Georgia and Wisconsin, you know, 00:31:48.029 --> 00:31:50.750 so I couldn't agree more. And to allow the entire 00:31:50.750 --> 00:31:54.210 nation to interact the same way we do as paramedics 00:31:54.210 --> 00:31:57.309 and EMTs, you know, National Registry, I think 00:31:57.309 --> 00:32:00.690 it would open the door to not only, you know, 00:32:00.690 --> 00:32:02.450 these people will be able to test in different 00:32:02.450 --> 00:32:05.009 places, but also knowledge sharing. Now you've 00:32:05.009 --> 00:32:06.730 got people coming from departments that obviously 00:32:06.730 --> 00:32:09.140 will be humble when they first get there. But 00:32:09.140 --> 00:32:11.319 then as they get their time on, they're like, 00:32:11.359 --> 00:32:12.460 hey, let me show you some of the things that 00:32:12.460 --> 00:32:14.559 we used to do in Iowa. And you're like, wow, 00:32:14.700 --> 00:32:17.099 that makes so much sense here as well. Let's 00:32:17.099 --> 00:32:20.160 start using that. Right. Yeah, we actually just 00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:23.579 sent our special ops team. They just went to 00:32:23.579 --> 00:32:28.539 Michigan to take a trench class and learned how 00:32:28.539 --> 00:32:30.539 they taught it up there, came back home and said, 00:32:30.579 --> 00:32:32.400 okay, we're changing all of our policies when 00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:34.759 it comes to trench. We're going to do it this 00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:36.339 way because they're doing it the right way and 00:32:36.339 --> 00:32:39.680 we haven't been. You're right. There's a lot 00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:40.859 of states that do things differently. They have 00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:42.500 different climates, different environments. We 00:32:42.500 --> 00:32:45.220 can learn a lot of things from those firefighters 00:32:45.220 --> 00:32:48.880 and those agencies up there. But I don't know. 00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:51.740 To me, it just makes sense. We're going to have 00:32:51.740 --> 00:32:55.660 someone who was a firefighter for some time at 00:32:55.660 --> 00:32:57.000 another agency in another state, and they have 00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:59.799 to come down here and take the minimum standards. 00:33:00.920 --> 00:33:03.759 They've already proven at their previous department 00:33:03.759 --> 00:33:06.349 that they... can do the minimum standard plus 00:33:06.349 --> 00:33:09.029 and we all know that when you come into the fire 00:33:09.029 --> 00:33:12.630 service we're going to teach you the real way 00:33:12.630 --> 00:33:14.650 right we're going to teach you how to be a firefighter 00:33:14.650 --> 00:33:18.470 not how you pass the minimum standards practical 00:33:18.470 --> 00:33:21.710 test so there's things that we can improve on 00:33:21.710 --> 00:33:25.789 i don't know hopefully we'll get there hopefully 00:33:25.789 --> 00:33:28.259 we'll get there and get there soon Well, you 00:33:28.259 --> 00:33:30.279 mentioned about the uptick in recruitment. Let's 00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:32.559 just revisit that for a second. I had Doug White 00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:35.380 on the show, who was a Tampa cop. And one of 00:33:35.380 --> 00:33:38.759 his friends is working in your HR. And he was 00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:40.799 speaking to him a few months ago. And he's like, 00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:44.220 Doug, I literally need another person to help 00:33:44.220 --> 00:33:46.180 me answer the phone. Like it's ringing off the 00:33:46.180 --> 00:33:49.400 hook. So compare and contrast, not only numbers, 00:33:49.460 --> 00:33:52.279 but you mentioned about experience. What about 00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:54.200 firefighter paramedics? Because that's the kind 00:33:54.200 --> 00:33:57.259 of golden nugget in the fire service at the moment. 00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:00.720 So my HR director, the last class, she actually 00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:03.299 called me and she's like, I want to cry. I've 00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:05.819 never signed so many firefighter paramedic action 00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:08.659 forms for new hires before. You know, we hired 00:34:08.659 --> 00:34:13.059 a class of 32. We had 17. You know, that's unheard 00:34:13.059 --> 00:34:15.880 of, especially in Pasco County, to have more 00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:17.719 than 50 percent of our new hire class, a large 00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:20.039 new hire class being firefighter paramedics. 00:34:20.139 --> 00:34:22.519 You know, and a lot of them, like I said, they 00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:24.260 come with experience or coming from other agencies. 00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:28.800 It's made us better as a department. You know, 00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:33.590 we have the morale has changed. It's a complete 00:34:33.590 --> 00:34:37.110 180 from where we were three years ago. And then 00:34:37.110 --> 00:34:38.750 the people that are coming in, you know, they're 00:34:38.750 --> 00:34:40.650 excited to be here because they're working for 00:34:40.650 --> 00:34:42.750 a place that truly cares about their people. 00:34:43.210 --> 00:34:45.570 And not just with going to a D -shift, but with 00:34:45.570 --> 00:34:48.210 our mental health initiatives, our occupational 00:34:48.210 --> 00:34:51.050 health program, you know, our physical abilities 00:34:51.050 --> 00:34:53.630 program. You know, they see a department that 00:34:53.630 --> 00:34:56.610 actually cares and it's made everything better. 00:34:56.690 --> 00:35:00.449 You know, I have my third man on my truck at 00:35:00.449 --> 00:35:04.199 my station. was a 10 -year promoted driver from 00:35:04.199 --> 00:35:07.019 another agency on the East Coast who's fully 00:35:07.019 --> 00:35:10.940 Flussar, you know, teaches Flussar classes. He's 00:35:10.940 --> 00:35:14.440 just an awesome firefighter, a great employee 00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:17.440 to have and to think that we got him here because 00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:19.639 of the transition to 2472. I mean, that speaks 00:35:19.639 --> 00:35:21.519 to the people that are coming in the door and 00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:23.079 the people that will come to your department 00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:27.019 if you prove that you, you know, invest in them. 00:35:28.539 --> 00:35:30.239 I think that's an important point, too. And I've 00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:32.639 said this recently. Again, the taxpayer is unaware 00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:35.780 of this in a lot of these counties, you know, 00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:38.860 the ones that I know, like Marion, Orange, the 00:35:38.860 --> 00:35:41.880 rig might pull up and in theory have a total 00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:46.210 of five years, six years, maybe. Between all 00:35:46.210 --> 00:35:48.829 four, I'm counting as four people. You know, 00:35:48.869 --> 00:35:50.489 you got the probie in the back, the brand new 00:35:50.489 --> 00:35:52.409 guy. You might have a guy just got off probation 00:35:52.409 --> 00:35:54.670 as their firefighter. You got an engineer that's, 00:35:54.670 --> 00:35:56.469 you know, riding up or so they've got two years 00:35:56.469 --> 00:35:59.349 and then the LT has got three. Right. And that's 00:35:59.349 --> 00:36:01.690 terrifying because if the most experience in 00:36:01.690 --> 00:36:05.030 that whole rig is three, four, five years. you 00:36:05.030 --> 00:36:07.730 have not seen very much, you know? So yes, you 00:36:07.730 --> 00:36:09.070 have the training, you might be fit, you might 00:36:09.070 --> 00:36:11.050 be competent, not talking down anyone who's got 00:36:11.050 --> 00:36:14.110 five years on. But as far as a senior person 00:36:14.110 --> 00:36:17.309 on that rig, there's so much you haven't seen 00:36:17.309 --> 00:36:19.409 yet. You know, there's so many reps that you 00:36:19.409 --> 00:36:21.969 haven't done yet. Right. And if I can compare 00:36:21.969 --> 00:36:24.590 that to Anaheim, when I was on truck company 00:36:24.590 --> 00:36:29.130 there, just the front seat had 40, 50 years, 00:36:29.210 --> 00:36:32.539 depending on which rig I was on. So again, I 00:36:32.539 --> 00:36:36.079 was a freaking wide -eyed. By the time I left 00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:39.000 there, I had just over five years on when I left. 00:36:39.460 --> 00:36:44.340 So full -on rookie still, but I had these salty 00:36:44.340 --> 00:36:47.980 veterans to learn from that have been to decades 00:36:47.980 --> 00:36:51.360 and decades of responses, EMS, fire, extrications, 00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:53.699 whatever it is. So you've got all that experience 00:36:53.699 --> 00:36:57.489 to lean into. So this is... one of the upsides 00:36:57.489 --> 00:37:01.090 of this reciprocity of these lateral hires is 00:37:01.090 --> 00:37:03.429 that now you're able to put experience back in. 00:37:03.510 --> 00:37:05.909 It may not be experienced in Pasco County, Florida, 00:37:06.210 --> 00:37:09.769 but it's still, you know, that 80 % of that experience 00:37:09.769 --> 00:37:12.449 is going to be applicable. Right. They got the 00:37:12.449 --> 00:37:14.269 reps in, you know, whether it was here or there, 00:37:14.329 --> 00:37:15.690 it doesn't matter. They have the reps, you know, 00:37:15.690 --> 00:37:18.210 we're, like I said, with us, we didn't lower 00:37:18.210 --> 00:37:20.889 the time requirements because that was a concern, 00:37:20.949 --> 00:37:23.710 not only from the department, but also from us. 00:37:23.750 --> 00:37:26.219 Right. We didn't want to. to promote people to 00:37:26.219 --> 00:37:28.199 captain with five years on the job. You know, 00:37:28.199 --> 00:37:30.320 that just wasn't even a part of the conversation. 00:37:31.019 --> 00:37:33.280 So we didn't, we didn't lower our time, which 00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:36.699 is, which was a huge, a huge deal. You know, 00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:38.440 we've had multiple promotional exams because 00:37:38.440 --> 00:37:40.239 we had to wait for a group to kind of hit their 00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:43.059 time and grade that was required to sit. But 00:37:43.059 --> 00:37:44.139 for us, you know, you have to do, you have to 00:37:44.139 --> 00:37:46.280 be a driver for five years. Then you have to 00:37:46.280 --> 00:37:49.099 be firefighter for five years to sit for driver. 00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:50.699 And then three years as a driver sit for captain. 00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:53.659 So a minimum of eight years total service. You 00:37:53.659 --> 00:37:56.070 know, I'm lucky. You know, on my truck, I got 00:37:56.070 --> 00:37:59.230 a senior captain, 25 years, and I've been on 00:37:59.230 --> 00:38:01.610 10. Like I said, our third man's got 10 years. 00:38:01.710 --> 00:38:04.530 So we're kind of an anomaly, you know, because 00:38:04.530 --> 00:38:06.170 you don't have that senior firefighter anymore 00:38:06.170 --> 00:38:08.210 either. You know, and that's kind of been lost 00:38:08.210 --> 00:38:09.989 in the fire service. There are very few that 00:38:09.989 --> 00:38:13.150 are left. It doesn't seem like we'll probably 00:38:13.150 --> 00:38:15.110 ever get that back because everyone wants to 00:38:15.110 --> 00:38:19.780 get promoted and get promoted quickly. You know, 00:38:19.780 --> 00:38:21.199 but you're right. That's another concern. It's 00:38:21.199 --> 00:38:23.019 just another reason why, like you said, we should 00:38:23.019 --> 00:38:25.840 have reciprocity and why it's important, you 00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:29.440 know, to improve your benefits in your in your 00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:31.119 agency. You're going to get that seniority. And 00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:34.340 like I said, you know, for us, we've had two 00:38:34.340 --> 00:38:38.099 20 year. They were one was the captain for his 00:38:38.099 --> 00:38:39.739 department, one was a lieutenant, and then we 00:38:39.739 --> 00:38:42.280 had a 20 year driver come over. So, I mean, it 00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:44.719 works. It's important. Like you said, you can't. 00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:47.599 It's just not safe for the people on the rig 00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:51.369 or for. the citizens of that municipality to 00:38:51.369 --> 00:38:53.449 have eight years of service pulling up on a fire 00:38:53.449 --> 00:38:57.570 truck it's just can't have it it just can't happen 00:38:57.570 --> 00:39:01.590 absolutely what about the money let's revisit 00:39:01.590 --> 00:39:03.030 something i know we talked about this in the 00:39:03.030 --> 00:39:05.449 last conversation but i just want to talk just 00:39:05.449 --> 00:39:10.329 to underline oh so if we go to 24 72 42 out week 00:39:10.329 --> 00:39:13.170 then we're going to take a pay cut so i will 00:39:13.170 --> 00:39:15.150 leave you with that myth feel free to debunk 00:39:15.150 --> 00:39:20.000 how you would like yeah so You should not be 00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:21.780 taking a pay cut. I can't say that everybody, 00:39:22.099 --> 00:39:24.739 you know, I would hope that your negotiating 00:39:24.739 --> 00:39:28.320 team wouldn't allow a reduction in pay, you know, 00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:32.619 to go to the 2472s. You know, for us, over the 00:39:32.619 --> 00:39:34.599 three years of our contract, we're going to receive 00:39:34.599 --> 00:39:38.519 a 24 % increase. You know, we had 8 % COLA in 00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:41.820 year one, 7 % in year two, and then we have a 00:39:41.820 --> 00:39:45.559 3 % step every single year for a total of 24 00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:51.829 % increase. Even if we had no increase, our hourly 00:39:51.829 --> 00:39:53.710 rate would still go up because of working less 00:39:53.710 --> 00:39:56.349 hours. But no, there was no reduction in pay 00:39:56.349 --> 00:40:00.510 at all. There are going to be people that are 00:40:00.510 --> 00:40:01.630 going to say, oh, well, you're losing your built 00:40:01.630 --> 00:40:04.429 -in overtime. Well, it's our belief, it's my 00:40:04.429 --> 00:40:07.050 belief that you should get paid a fair and living 00:40:07.050 --> 00:40:10.769 wage without having to work overtime. You shouldn't 00:40:10.769 --> 00:40:13.449 have to work overtime to pay your bills. This 00:40:13.449 --> 00:40:16.489 is a career. This isn't a side job. And then 00:40:16.489 --> 00:40:17.989 there are also those that say, well, 42 -hour 00:40:17.989 --> 00:40:21.309 work week, we're even more part -time. No, American 00:40:21.309 --> 00:40:24.889 citizens work 40. We're working 42. So we deserve 00:40:24.889 --> 00:40:26.650 to work the same amount of hours or as close 00:40:26.650 --> 00:40:30.530 as possible as a normal citizen. But no, there 00:40:30.530 --> 00:40:34.070 was no reduction in pay. You will, obviously, 00:40:34.130 --> 00:40:36.210 if you have built -in overtime, that will go 00:40:36.210 --> 00:40:37.949 away, but that's a benefit. And hopefully the 00:40:37.949 --> 00:40:40.070 raises, they should offset that. Your hourly 00:40:40.070 --> 00:40:43.389 rate should offset that. So no, it's a fallacy. 00:40:45.070 --> 00:40:47.750 you agree to get your pay, your pay taken away, 00:40:47.789 --> 00:40:50.309 but I don't know who would do that. So, or who 00:40:50.309 --> 00:40:52.730 would have vote that in? So no, that's, that's 00:40:52.730 --> 00:40:55.409 false. Well, with the money side, what I've seen 00:40:55.409 --> 00:40:59.070 is again, you fill the vacancies now that, you 00:40:59.070 --> 00:41:02.429 know, that unneeded overtime goes away. Cause 00:41:02.429 --> 00:41:04.369 obviously a lot of cities still have day overtime, 00:41:04.570 --> 00:41:06.630 you know, special events and, you know, call 00:41:06.630 --> 00:41:09.949 outs or whatever the thing is. But you, so you 00:41:09.949 --> 00:41:11.750 filled all those spots and everything's being 00:41:11.750 --> 00:41:13.780 played at time. You know, you've, you've. kind 00:41:13.780 --> 00:41:16.079 of stop the bleeding as far as a lack of retention. 00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:18.619 You know, the workman's comp claims come down. 00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:20.780 So the premium should drop their line of duty, 00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:23.000 death payments, you know, medical retirements, 00:41:23.059 --> 00:41:26.119 lawsuits from tired firefighters hitting other 00:41:26.119 --> 00:41:29.179 vehicles or pushing the wrong meds. So now you've 00:41:29.179 --> 00:41:31.880 saved your city or county millions and millions 00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:34.219 and millions of dollars. I would argue then the 00:41:34.219 --> 00:41:37.219 next cycle you can say, well, look, show me the 00:41:37.219 --> 00:41:40.260 numbers now. So that's where our pay increases 00:41:40.260 --> 00:41:43.039 next time. So this is the thing. The beautiful 00:41:43.039 --> 00:41:45.320 thing is you've literally even created savings. 00:41:45.380 --> 00:41:47.019 How many times has the fire department ever done 00:41:47.019 --> 00:41:50.340 that in your own employer where you can point 00:41:50.340 --> 00:41:52.099 and say, well, there's the budget for our pay 00:41:52.099 --> 00:41:54.599 increase for this next cycle because we literally 00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:57.539 just saved you whatever million dollars from 00:41:57.539 --> 00:41:59.559 this new initiative that we've done going to 00:41:59.559 --> 00:42:01.920 this healthier work week. Right. I mean, anytime 00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:05.000 you can save them money, they're going to think 00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:07.639 you walk on water. Right. And that's the thing 00:42:07.639 --> 00:42:09.780 is everything that you just listed off. It's 00:42:09.780 --> 00:42:11.960 not it might not be an immediate savings other 00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:15.860 than your overtime costs. Right. But the long 00:42:15.860 --> 00:42:17.739 term, which is how they look at things, right, 00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:19.480 their long term savings with what you said, your 00:42:19.480 --> 00:42:22.099 workers comp claims, your accidents, your workers 00:42:22.099 --> 00:42:25.380 comp injuries, you know, et cetera. That is where 00:42:25.380 --> 00:42:27.300 that money is going to start, you know, piling 00:42:27.300 --> 00:42:32.599 up on on the savings side. It is an upfront cost. 00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:34.980 No matter what, if you have a three -week Kelly 00:42:34.980 --> 00:42:36.699 Day, you're going to have to hire some people, 00:42:36.780 --> 00:42:38.179 right? You're going to have to promote people 00:42:38.179 --> 00:42:39.500 and they're going to be making more money. So 00:42:39.500 --> 00:42:44.039 there is a cost associated. But for us, the cost 00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:47.699 of not having it was more, right? The $5 .5 million 00:42:47.699 --> 00:42:50.380 of overtime every year, losing $4 .5 million 00:42:50.380 --> 00:42:53.800 for 162 firefighters leaving in two years. You 00:42:53.800 --> 00:42:57.099 know, those numbers add up over time. When you 00:42:57.099 --> 00:42:59.280 take that and you invest it into just hiring 00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:03.030 more people or lowering the hours. It's a cost 00:43:03.030 --> 00:43:05.869 -neutral deal. And then, like I said, the long 00:43:05.869 --> 00:43:07.190 -term savings are there with everything that 00:43:07.190 --> 00:43:11.670 you listed. To me, it's a no -brainer. It really 00:43:11.670 --> 00:43:14.050 is. Unless you're that one department that has 00:43:14.050 --> 00:43:16.030 a three -week Kelly Day and has no overtime, 00:43:16.369 --> 00:43:23.170 which I don't know of any, it just makes sense. 00:43:24.030 --> 00:43:27.010 There's no argument against it. Well, even that, 00:43:27.070 --> 00:43:29.389 because I've had a couple of agencies reach out 00:43:29.389 --> 00:43:30.969 and they were like, yeah, we don't really have 00:43:30.969 --> 00:43:34.349 the overtime. element to sell. They just happen 00:43:34.349 --> 00:43:37.329 to be the premium department in their area. And 00:43:37.329 --> 00:43:39.449 I tell them, and then the other example is, oh, 00:43:39.449 --> 00:43:41.550 what about that department? They only run one 00:43:41.550 --> 00:43:44.250 call a day or whatever. I'm like, it still goes 00:43:44.250 --> 00:43:47.690 back to this simple concept. The guy that makes 00:43:47.690 --> 00:43:49.909 your coffee at Starbucks, the person who's at 00:43:49.909 --> 00:43:52.590 the checkout in your grocery store, they go home 00:43:52.590 --> 00:43:55.750 after 40 hours. Why does your family not deserve 00:43:55.750 --> 00:43:59.050 to have you home? after 42 hours. I don't care 00:43:59.050 --> 00:44:01.190 if you're in a station, you shouldn't be sitting 00:44:01.190 --> 00:44:03.150 watching TV all day. You're drilling, you're 00:44:03.150 --> 00:44:05.170 training, you're doing PIO stuff, whatever the 00:44:05.170 --> 00:44:08.829 thing is, visiting schools, but you're busy during 00:44:08.829 --> 00:44:10.989 the day, you're relaxing in the evening, but 00:44:10.989 --> 00:44:14.590 you should not have to be away for 48, 56 hours 00:44:14.590 --> 00:44:17.469 when you are someone's last hope when they push 00:44:17.469 --> 00:44:21.230 three numbers on a phone. So this also debunks 00:44:21.230 --> 00:44:24.280 it. Why is the person that makes coffee tapping 00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:26.420 out at 40 hours, but the person that will wake 00:44:26.420 --> 00:44:29.079 up at three in the morning, climb into a truck, 00:44:29.260 --> 00:44:32.260 navigate traffic lights and sirens, make entry 00:44:32.260 --> 00:44:34.440 on a second floor window, do a primary, pull 00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:37.559 out a victim, doff their gear, do a cardiac algorithm. 00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:40.619 And there they need to work 56 hours. It makes 00:44:40.619 --> 00:44:43.519 no sense. So the pushback from that point of 00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:45.880 view is still, I don't care if you're running 00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:48.820 20 calls or if that day at the station, you're 00:44:48.820 --> 00:44:51.829 doing nothing but training. you still deserve 00:44:51.829 --> 00:44:53.849 to go home and your family, the same as all the 00:44:53.849 --> 00:44:55.929 other people that you're serving. Absolutely. 00:44:56.110 --> 00:44:59.469 And you know, the same thing with the 4896 is 00:44:59.469 --> 00:45:01.369 right. We kind of touched on it earlier is like, 00:45:01.429 --> 00:45:04.630 you shouldn't have to be away from home for 48 00:45:04.630 --> 00:45:08.269 hours at a time. If you're running one call a 00:45:08.269 --> 00:45:10.289 day, it's still mentally draining, right? It's 00:45:10.289 --> 00:45:12.150 physically draining. It's not your bed that you're 00:45:12.150 --> 00:45:13.909 sleeping in. It's not your house that you're 00:45:13.909 --> 00:45:16.210 in. You're at work. You're always, you're always 00:45:16.210 --> 00:45:19.090 on, right? Like even in the station I'm at, you 00:45:19.090 --> 00:45:21.690 know, I definitely, Went to a slowdown station, 00:45:21.789 --> 00:45:23.489 which we're running about, you know, eight to 00:45:23.489 --> 00:45:27.130 10 calls a shift. But we had luxury sleeping 00:45:27.130 --> 00:45:30.210 most nights. I'm still up till three o 'clock 00:45:30.210 --> 00:45:32.309 in the morning. I still wake up, you know, at 00:45:32.309 --> 00:45:35.829 630 and feel like shit because it's not my bed. 00:45:35.929 --> 00:45:38.869 Right. It's the sleep still isn't good. Your 00:45:38.869 --> 00:45:41.369 family deserves you to be present. They deserve 00:45:41.369 --> 00:45:43.949 that. You know, they sacrifice enough by having 00:45:43.949 --> 00:45:45.730 you risk your life every single day when you 00:45:45.730 --> 00:45:48.500 walk out that door. they should be able to have 00:45:48.500 --> 00:45:53.679 you at home more times than not. I don't know. 00:45:53.719 --> 00:45:57.380 I don't, I don't understand, you know, that thought 00:45:57.380 --> 00:45:59.440 process other than just, it's, you know, it's 00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:01.900 what we know. So we're not going to change, you 00:46:01.900 --> 00:46:04.139 know, and I think that there's, you get comfortable 00:46:04.139 --> 00:46:05.920 in the situation that you're in and maybe you 00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:07.400 don't want to fight for that. Maybe you just 00:46:07.400 --> 00:46:11.219 want more money, but the long -term effects of 00:46:11.219 --> 00:46:16.719 working a 4896 or You know, working 24, 48 with 00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:18.780 a mandatory overtime, you know, twice a month, 00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:20.260 three times a month. You know, the long term 00:46:20.260 --> 00:46:23.260 effects are so negative that to me, you have 00:46:23.260 --> 00:46:24.840 to be an advocate for yourself. You have to be 00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:26.380 an advocate for your firefighters, whether you're 00:46:26.380 --> 00:46:30.039 chief or union. And you have to be an advocate 00:46:30.039 --> 00:46:32.480 for the people that you serve and having firefighters 00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:34.420 that fresh and ready to work every single day 00:46:34.420 --> 00:46:38.400 with an adequate amount of rest. Well, you said 00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:41.159 about the comments made by usually our, you know, 00:46:41.159 --> 00:46:43.300 um, positions, firefighter, engineer, Lieutenant 00:46:43.300 --> 00:46:45.900 captain, you know, it's part -time hours, the 00:46:45.900 --> 00:46:49.920 42. Right. And I always tell them, okay, so you 00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:51.780 don't want to be a good firefighter. Is that 00:46:51.780 --> 00:46:54.820 what I'm getting? Because you ask your NFL heroes, 00:46:54.900 --> 00:46:57.119 your NBA heroes, your major league heroes, your 00:46:57.119 --> 00:47:00.139 UFC fighters, whoever it is. Oh, tell me about 00:47:00.139 --> 00:47:02.000 the weeks where you don't sleep every third day. 00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:04.179 They're going to be like, what are you talking 00:47:04.179 --> 00:47:06.860 about? Yeah. No, we forge performance. Go speak 00:47:06.860 --> 00:47:09.500 to the special operations community. Ask, you 00:47:09.500 --> 00:47:11.519 know, how many times deliberately they just don't 00:47:11.519 --> 00:47:13.780 sleep. No, of course not. They have strength 00:47:13.780 --> 00:47:15.360 and conditioning coaches and sports psychologists, 00:47:15.619 --> 00:47:18.260 nutritionists and, you know, PTs and all these 00:47:18.260 --> 00:47:20.780 things. And then you have us where it's like, 00:47:20.900 --> 00:47:23.099 oh, you know, if I work more hours, it makes 00:47:23.099 --> 00:47:24.920 me a better firefighter. No, it fucking doesn't. 00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:27.219 It makes you a worse firefighter. So if you're 00:47:27.219 --> 00:47:29.800 advocating a 48 -hour shift, which, by the way, 00:47:29.820 --> 00:47:32.179 the entire sleep medicine world thinks is insane. 00:47:33.719 --> 00:47:35.900 I can't believe that that took off. I mean, again, 00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:38.079 you talk about fucking, you know, insanity doing 00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:40.219 the same thing, you know, over and over again. 00:47:40.300 --> 00:47:43.880 Anyway, this chest beating is for them. It's 00:47:43.880 --> 00:47:46.159 like, no, it's for you because you're too scared 00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:47.880 to actually do what needs to be done to make 00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:50.239 you a better firefighter. If you were truly a 00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:53.199 tactical athlete, you would understand the need 00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:56.820 for recovery after intense training. But if you're 00:47:56.820 --> 00:47:59.019 just, you know, growing a mustache, buying a 00:47:59.019 --> 00:48:00.440 leather helmet and thinking that you're Kurt 00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:03.090 fucking Russell. Without putting any of the work 00:48:03.090 --> 00:48:06.230 in, then you are just fucking deluded. You know, 00:48:06.250 --> 00:48:08.670 if you really want to be the best version of 00:48:08.670 --> 00:48:11.190 yourself as a firefighter and a paramedic, you 00:48:11.190 --> 00:48:13.469 need the rest and recovery to get the baseline. 00:48:13.630 --> 00:48:17.190 So you operate on four cylinders. So this mythology 00:48:17.190 --> 00:48:20.130 of, you know, we'll just do more is bullshit. 00:48:20.170 --> 00:48:22.369 Again, it's cowardice at my level. I never rose 00:48:22.369 --> 00:48:24.929 above firefighter. I was, you know, going to 00:48:24.929 --> 00:48:27.449 be the senior firefighter because I'd never grew 00:48:27.449 --> 00:48:29.929 tired of, you know, making entry, cutting roofs. 00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:33.960 fucking loved it but i also understand the strength 00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:36.820 conditioning the sports performance side and 00:48:36.820 --> 00:48:39.500 i became a worse and worse firefighter as i progressed 00:48:39.500 --> 00:48:42.000 through my career when it came to my you know 00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:45.880 mental acuity my injury prevalence because of 00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:48.420 the way that we were worked and now i'm out of 00:48:48.420 --> 00:48:51.480 the profession we need to debunk that ridiculous 00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:55.920 cartoon -esque bullshit you know that comes out 00:48:55.920 --> 00:48:58.980 of the 80s bodybuilding rambo bollocks that we 00:48:58.980 --> 00:49:01.219 were all rain you know raised with and look at 00:49:01.219 --> 00:49:05.340 the real performance gurus they're talking about 00:49:05.340 --> 00:49:08.380 all things ice baths and you know mobility and 00:49:08.380 --> 00:49:11.760 there are guns and that's performance world and 00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:14.920 not to volunteering not to sleep for 48 hours 00:49:15.480 --> 00:49:18.340 is lunacy and saying that you don't want to work 00:49:18.340 --> 00:49:20.860 a shorter work week so you can spend more time 00:49:20.860 --> 00:49:22.579 with your family and be recovered and therefore 00:49:22.579 --> 00:49:25.059 a better firefighter shows that you don't want 00:49:25.059 --> 00:49:27.179 to be a better firefighter period point blank 00:49:27.179 --> 00:49:29.860 right i mean we're functional athletes right 00:49:29.860 --> 00:49:31.780 and like you said there's not one professional 00:49:31.780 --> 00:49:36.460 athlete or college athlete that possibly stays 00:49:36.460 --> 00:49:38.960 up 24, 48 hours at a time, you know, doesn't 00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:40.639 sleep, gets three hours of sleep a night, four 00:49:40.639 --> 00:49:42.239 hours sleep a night, and then goes and performs 00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:44.639 on game day, you know, at their peak. It just, 00:49:44.659 --> 00:49:46.699 it doesn't happen, right? Science tells us that's 00:49:46.699 --> 00:49:48.960 impossible. LeBron James spends a million dollars 00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:51.519 on his body every year, right? There's a reason 00:49:51.519 --> 00:49:53.679 why he's been able to play at such a high level 00:49:53.679 --> 00:49:57.280 for that long. And we need to invest in ourselves, 00:49:57.519 --> 00:50:01.869 our bodies. Our recovery, you know, another thing 00:50:01.869 --> 00:50:03.929 that you mentioned was the physical fitness, 00:50:03.989 --> 00:50:06.329 physical standards or learning the lifting techniques, 00:50:06.409 --> 00:50:08.670 mobility, all that stuff. And that's one thing 00:50:08.670 --> 00:50:11.510 that we're starting to do. So we have on underneath 00:50:11.510 --> 00:50:12.929 the union umbrella, we have a health and safety 00:50:12.929 --> 00:50:15.429 committee and our committee chair is working 00:50:15.429 --> 00:50:17.469 with the agency and our health and safety chief 00:50:17.469 --> 00:50:21.119 and just. Three, four months ago, they went around 00:50:21.119 --> 00:50:22.900 to every single station, called it level two 00:50:22.900 --> 00:50:25.079 training. They showed up with some bands, some 00:50:25.079 --> 00:50:27.300 exercise equipment. They put the station out 00:50:27.300 --> 00:50:29.000 of service for 30 minutes and they went through 00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:30.900 all lifting techniques and just showing them, 00:50:30.940 --> 00:50:35.119 you know, mobility exercises. We started an annual 00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:37.679 that we do the fire sled fitness for our physical 00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:41.760 ability exam. Right now it's voluntary. But what 00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:43.800 we are taking away from that is, you know, we 00:50:43.800 --> 00:50:46.820 had over 600 people sign up to test and take 00:50:46.820 --> 00:50:50.380 it. A handful of them failed. So what we're doing 00:50:50.380 --> 00:50:52.739 now is those individual individuals reached out 00:50:52.739 --> 00:50:54.340 to the department saying that they want help. 00:50:55.179 --> 00:50:58.619 And Chris Crima, who is our health and safety 00:50:58.619 --> 00:51:02.480 chair, he's going now with a certified pure fitness 00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:05.400 trainer on duty to those stations to work out 00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:07.719 with those individuals for for an hour a day 00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:11.679 at a time. It goes into what you're saying, like 00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:14.539 you have to. We're professionals. You have to 00:51:14.539 --> 00:51:16.260 be professional. We know this job is physically 00:51:16.260 --> 00:51:19.219 demanding. That requires strength and exercise, 00:51:19.519 --> 00:51:22.539 mobility, and the big key is sleep. You hear 00:51:22.539 --> 00:51:24.920 it all the time, right? Eight hours to recover. 00:51:25.059 --> 00:51:27.820 You need eight hours of sleep. If you're bodybuilding, 00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:30.559 lifting, playing sports, whatever it is, you 00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:32.159 need eight hours of sleep a night so your body 00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:34.480 can fully recover and be the best that it can 00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:39.000 possibly be. That needs to be the number one 00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:41.719 topic of discussion in the fire service. It leads 00:51:41.719 --> 00:51:45.650 directly to the 24 -72s. We have to have that 00:51:45.650 --> 00:51:49.489 time off to recover so that we can perform. Absolutely. 00:51:49.530 --> 00:51:51.530 I think this is what's really exciting. And I've 00:51:51.530 --> 00:51:53.610 been very vocal about this, too. If we are going 00:51:53.610 --> 00:51:56.989 to fix the environment that then creates a higher 00:51:56.989 --> 00:51:59.110 demand in the fire service, then putting the 00:51:59.110 --> 00:52:01.110 bar back up where it should have always been 00:52:01.110 --> 00:52:04.210 is step one. And then having punitive fitness 00:52:04.210 --> 00:52:07.650 standards should be side by side. And that scares 00:52:07.650 --> 00:52:09.170 the hell out of some people. Are you trying to 00:52:09.170 --> 00:52:11.329 take our jobs? But just to illustrate here in 00:52:11.329 --> 00:52:14.309 Florida, as well, you know. Our certification 00:52:14.309 --> 00:52:17.789 is called minimum standards. It means this is 00:52:17.789 --> 00:52:20.510 as shit as you should ever be in your whole fucking 00:52:20.510 --> 00:52:23.710 career is here. And when we were in fire school, 00:52:23.789 --> 00:52:26.010 what were we doing? We were climbing stairs with 00:52:26.010 --> 00:52:27.829 hoes. We were throwing ladders. We were dragging 00:52:27.829 --> 00:52:30.690 dummies. We were doing the Kaiser sled. All the 00:52:30.690 --> 00:52:32.789 things that required physical fitness and strength 00:52:32.789 --> 00:52:35.690 when it came to fire ground movements. So no 00:52:35.690 --> 00:52:39.849 one, no one can say it's not fair. to have a 00:52:39.849 --> 00:52:41.469 fitness standard, a profession where you were 00:52:41.469 --> 00:52:44.349 held to a standard at the front door. But I think 00:52:44.349 --> 00:52:46.789 where it's really exciting now getting away from 00:52:46.789 --> 00:52:49.210 punitive, and I've had this conversation with 00:52:49.210 --> 00:52:52.050 quite a few coaches recently. If you look at 00:52:52.050 --> 00:52:55.670 the strength and conditionists, the nutritionists 00:52:55.670 --> 00:52:58.989 that did come to a lot of our agencies, if we 00:52:58.989 --> 00:53:01.449 hand on our heart are really honest, they were 00:53:01.449 --> 00:53:05.130 there with the intent of trying to stop us dying 00:53:05.130 --> 00:53:08.420 as much, stop us getting hurt as much. It wasn't 00:53:08.420 --> 00:53:11.260 performance. But what really excites me is as 00:53:11.260 --> 00:53:13.719 we start seeing this revolution here in Florida 00:53:13.719 --> 00:53:17.920 and these agencies are fully staffed 24 -72, 00:53:18.179 --> 00:53:20.639 you've got people that are now really have an 00:53:20.639 --> 00:53:23.880 environment to really start thriving and you 00:53:23.880 --> 00:53:26.739 hold them to a standard. Now our strength and 00:53:26.739 --> 00:53:28.960 conditioning coaches can start focusing on performance, 00:53:29.340 --> 00:53:32.420 nutritionists, physical therapists. Like as I 00:53:32.420 --> 00:53:34.780 give an example on here a few times. Next to 00:53:34.780 --> 00:53:37.559 my station, the last place, was not known for 00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:42.780 firefighting, was a 30 -story hotel. So three 00:53:42.780 --> 00:53:45.559 zero stories. So high -rise strip on my skinny 00:53:45.559 --> 00:53:49.480 ass is 100 pounds, 168 pounds. So I had to ascend 00:53:49.480 --> 00:53:53.599 30 stories with 100 pounds of gear, high -rise 00:53:53.599 --> 00:53:56.099 strip. And then when I get there is when I start 00:53:56.099 --> 00:53:59.079 actually doing my job. So this is what excites 00:53:59.079 --> 00:54:00.800 me. I've got a world class free diver coming 00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:03.760 on soon. And, you know, so we're talking about 00:54:03.760 --> 00:54:07.219 lung capacity, you know, efficiency of breathing, 00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:09.639 you know, mindfulness, all these things that 00:54:09.639 --> 00:54:12.280 are really forged performance. So getting away 00:54:12.280 --> 00:54:14.019 from this fear of they're trying to take our 00:54:14.019 --> 00:54:16.039 jobs and just putting our big boy pants on and 00:54:16.039 --> 00:54:18.619 say, as a firefighter, I should be in shape and 00:54:18.619 --> 00:54:21.980 giving them the compassion of like, just so you 00:54:21.980 --> 00:54:24.420 know, the environment that you worked in set 00:54:24.420 --> 00:54:27.409 you up for failure. So don't be ashamed of not 00:54:27.409 --> 00:54:30.250 being where you should be. But the next conversation 00:54:30.250 --> 00:54:33.090 is we have to get you back to where you should 00:54:33.090 --> 00:54:35.670 be. And we'll have an on -ramp and it won't be 00:54:35.670 --> 00:54:38.750 punitive initially. But we do as a profession 00:54:38.750 --> 00:54:40.750 have to draw a line in the sand because I've 00:54:40.750 --> 00:54:43.090 always said people like the phrase, would you 00:54:43.090 --> 00:54:47.610 want you saving you? That's about me. I'm not 00:54:47.610 --> 00:54:50.489 concerned of me. My thing is, how would you feel 00:54:50.489 --> 00:54:53.369 if your family died because the rescuer hadn't 00:54:53.369 --> 00:54:59.190 trained? And that is unacceptable. Right. Well, 00:54:59.230 --> 00:55:00.969 I love what you said, right? Like we're, we can't 00:55:00.969 --> 00:55:05.510 blame you for being out of shape. We've all done 00:55:05.510 --> 00:55:07.530 it, right? We were 48. So you get home, all you 00:55:07.530 --> 00:55:09.210 want to do is sleep all day. You know, you're 00:55:09.210 --> 00:55:10.670 going to eat like shit. You're not going to go 00:55:10.670 --> 00:55:12.929 to the gym. You weren't able to on your 48 hour 00:55:12.929 --> 00:55:15.050 shift. And then literally the next day you're 00:55:15.050 --> 00:55:20.269 back at work. Right. So we have set our firefighters 00:55:20.269 --> 00:55:24.460 up for failure. We haven't allowed them. to be 00:55:24.460 --> 00:55:27.460 the peak performers that they should be or that 00:55:27.460 --> 00:55:29.460 they were when they entered the fire service, 00:55:29.639 --> 00:55:33.699 right? So you fix that problem. And then we talk 00:55:33.699 --> 00:55:35.800 about having a plan and getting them to that 00:55:35.800 --> 00:55:40.440 bar, the physical fitness bar that we have. You 00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:42.619 have to create a program for them. Like right 00:55:42.619 --> 00:55:44.320 now, we're working on developing a 12 -month 00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:47.039 program. Chris Kramer, like I said earlier, he's 00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:49.239 our health and safety chair. He's developed a 00:55:49.239 --> 00:55:51.099 12 -month remediation program for anyone who 00:55:51.099 --> 00:55:55.239 fails this physical agility exam. And we're working 00:55:55.239 --> 00:55:56.920 on it right now with the agency and kind of fine 00:55:56.920 --> 00:56:00.599 tuning it. I would believe maybe not next year, 00:56:00.639 --> 00:56:02.519 but the year after, I would see that possibly 00:56:02.519 --> 00:56:09.159 being in place. And we owe it to our members 00:56:09.159 --> 00:56:11.380 and to the citizens, right? The citizens deserve, 00:56:11.559 --> 00:56:13.840 like you said, a peak performer showing up because 00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:16.039 their lives depend on it, right? Our members 00:56:16.039 --> 00:56:19.820 deserve it because being physically healthy and 00:56:19.820 --> 00:56:23.530 in shape is going to increase your longevity 00:56:23.530 --> 00:56:27.429 right both in the career and after and that is 00:56:27.429 --> 00:56:31.849 so important um you know i love to see we had 00:56:31.849 --> 00:56:33.550 we had a few members you know they've been on 00:56:33.550 --> 00:56:35.750 been on the job for a long time spent a lot of 00:56:35.750 --> 00:56:39.210 time on the rescues you know came on 20 years 00:56:39.210 --> 00:56:42.449 ago got their ass beat for their entire career 00:56:42.449 --> 00:56:44.869 working mandatory you know working 48 24s because 00:56:44.869 --> 00:56:48.409 they were all paramedics um you know that that 00:56:48.409 --> 00:56:52.550 were out of shape and i love to see them take 00:56:52.550 --> 00:56:55.710 this voluntary opportunity to go and test themselves 00:56:55.710 --> 00:57:01.210 and almost all of them passed so that it was 00:57:01.210 --> 00:57:03.389 awesome and then every single one of them reached 00:57:03.389 --> 00:57:05.289 out to a pure fitness trainer and said hey i 00:57:05.289 --> 00:57:06.949 want to get better i want to improve my time 00:57:06.949 --> 00:57:10.690 next year right we know firemen are all eight 00:57:10.690 --> 00:57:13.469 alphas right you want to improve you want to 00:57:13.469 --> 00:57:16.329 perform give them a challenge and they're not 00:57:16.329 --> 00:57:18.349 if they're not happy with the result they're 00:57:18.349 --> 00:57:20.050 going to do everything that they can to improve 00:57:20.050 --> 00:57:22.519 on their own Right. And then if we have some 00:57:22.519 --> 00:57:24.980 assistance for them, it's going to make them 00:57:24.980 --> 00:57:27.800 a better employee in their personal life. It's 00:57:27.800 --> 00:57:29.199 going to make them better. We know what it does 00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:31.239 to your mental health being physically fit. Right. 00:57:32.980 --> 00:57:35.800 I don't know. It's just we we can do great things. 00:57:35.900 --> 00:57:37.400 We just got to get there and we have to have 00:57:37.400 --> 00:57:39.539 people that are willing to make that change and 00:57:39.539 --> 00:57:44.940 have the tough conversations. I saw a great post 00:57:44.940 --> 00:57:47.369 actually. posted it's there on instagram um and 00:57:47.369 --> 00:57:49.269 i've seen it before but you know this whole you 00:57:49.269 --> 00:57:52.050 see alpha you know the people talk about the 00:57:52.050 --> 00:57:54.489 wolves and you know the alpha wolf and the front 00:57:54.489 --> 00:57:57.030 and all that stuff that's actually wrong unless 00:57:57.030 --> 00:57:58.750 all these posts that i've seen are wrong but 00:57:58.750 --> 00:58:02.250 i'm sure they're not the alpha wolf in a pack 00:58:02.250 --> 00:58:05.610 actually walks in the back in the back to make 00:58:05.610 --> 00:58:08.550 sure that no one gets left behind so we have 00:58:08.550 --> 00:58:11.690 these you know fire service fitness gurus that 00:58:11.690 --> 00:58:14.250 are filming themselves doing every workout. That's 00:58:14.250 --> 00:58:16.130 awesome. You're going to be an asset on the fire 00:58:16.130 --> 00:58:19.130 ground. But where I'm concerned is exactly what 00:58:19.130 --> 00:58:22.349 you said, the people that are at the back. And 00:58:22.349 --> 00:58:25.469 I've literally done laps with friends in fire 00:58:25.469 --> 00:58:27.309 departments that are deconditioned, just walking 00:58:27.309 --> 00:58:30.130 with them with a pack on, just trying to work 00:58:30.130 --> 00:58:32.769 on trying to get mobility and maybe burn off 00:58:32.769 --> 00:58:35.429 a few calories. But this is the point. It's not 00:58:35.429 --> 00:58:38.530 about... slicing and dicing the people that aren't 00:58:38.530 --> 00:58:41.030 ready today like some of us have managed to maintain 00:58:41.030 --> 00:58:43.650 our fitness despite the environment and that's 00:58:43.650 --> 00:58:45.489 very you know that's an important point despite 00:58:45.489 --> 00:58:48.510 um but there's a lot of people that you know 00:58:48.510 --> 00:58:52.389 added a notch in their belt every or you know 00:58:52.389 --> 00:58:54.250 i guess it was added yeah got bigger and bigger 00:58:54.250 --> 00:58:57.230 um you know with each year right you know and 00:58:57.230 --> 00:58:59.010 so that's a real thing it's an acknowledged thing 00:58:59.010 --> 00:59:03.000 the conversation is just simply as you said If 00:59:03.000 --> 00:59:04.340 you're opposing fitness standards and you're 00:59:04.340 --> 00:59:06.820 saying, I want our people to die younger, that's 00:59:06.820 --> 00:59:09.280 the bottom line. I mean, it really is. So you're 00:59:09.280 --> 00:59:11.900 saying we want to help get people back to where 00:59:11.900 --> 00:59:14.039 they should be. And I think the 24 -72 is the 00:59:14.039 --> 00:59:17.079 biggest first step of that. But then there's 00:59:17.079 --> 00:59:20.260 also a filtering device. Because when you get 00:59:20.260 --> 00:59:21.940 to that process and you've got these incredible 00:59:21.940 --> 00:59:23.820 medics that you just talked about that have the 00:59:23.820 --> 00:59:26.659 humility to say, I'm going to test myself. And 00:59:26.659 --> 00:59:29.039 I want to get back to where I was. I want to 00:59:29.039 --> 00:59:31.679 be better next year. And then you're going to 00:59:31.679 --> 00:59:33.460 have some people that like, I don't want to put 00:59:33.460 --> 00:59:36.239 the work in. And those are the people that shouldn't 00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:38.480 be in the fire service. Let's just be very, very 00:59:38.480 --> 00:59:42.000 honest. If you don't even want to get tired in 00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:44.739 a workout. You are not the right fucking person 00:59:44.739 --> 00:59:47.019 to be next to me on a hose line or make an entry 00:59:47.019 --> 00:59:49.079 through a second floor window. I'm sorry, you're 00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:51.460 just not. This job isn't for everyone. So there's 00:59:51.460 --> 00:59:53.039 also going to be that element. You're going to 00:59:53.039 --> 00:59:55.380 discover that some people now just don't have 00:59:55.380 --> 00:59:57.559 the heart for it anymore. And that's fine. If 00:59:57.559 --> 01:00:00.139 you have the ability to do a parallel to fire 01:00:00.139 --> 01:00:03.139 prevention or something, great. But we've also 01:00:03.139 --> 01:00:05.659 got to understand that we are a profession, that 01:00:05.659 --> 01:00:08.699 lives depend on us, and our physicality is part 01:00:08.699 --> 01:00:11.989 of that. And if you've set a standard, and people 01:00:11.989 --> 01:00:15.409 just are unwilling to meet that that's an entirely 01:00:15.409 --> 01:00:18.289 different conversation than elevating the rest 01:00:18.289 --> 01:00:21.030 of the department right well i think you know 01:00:21.030 --> 01:00:24.829 that statement right it it points the importance 01:00:24.829 --> 01:00:26.690 of having the right person in the right position 01:00:26.690 --> 01:00:28.190 right like you said you know the alpha needs 01:00:28.190 --> 01:00:29.769 to be in the back and bringing people with them 01:00:29.769 --> 01:00:35.210 that fitness guru and um you know our guy chris 01:00:35.210 --> 01:00:38.329 he he's that person right all he wants to do 01:00:38.329 --> 01:00:41.679 is see people improve like he called me the other 01:00:41.679 --> 01:00:44.179 day he was so excited because he had two two 01:00:44.179 --> 01:00:46.219 members that they passed the physical agility 01:00:46.219 --> 01:00:48.059 exam they wanted to improve their time they just 01:00:48.059 --> 01:00:49.679 went back up there retested and they shaved a 01:00:49.679 --> 01:00:52.199 minute off of their time and how excited he was 01:00:52.199 --> 01:00:54.300 you know when building the data out to show that 01:00:54.300 --> 01:00:58.500 this whole thing works um and to praise my county 01:00:58.500 --> 01:01:01.000 some more you know two three years ago they they 01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:04.269 actually invested and they paid the IFF to put 01:01:04.269 --> 01:01:06.449 25 of our members through the peer fitness trainer 01:01:06.449 --> 01:01:10.429 program. We have 25 certified PFTs and each and 01:01:10.429 --> 01:01:12.329 every one of them, they went and did that because 01:01:12.329 --> 01:01:15.110 all they want to do was help, right? They love 01:01:15.110 --> 01:01:16.650 fitness. They love working out. All I want to 01:01:16.650 --> 01:01:18.250 do is just help the people that are struggling 01:01:18.250 --> 01:01:22.449 to, to get better and to improve. You know, they 01:01:22.449 --> 01:01:24.869 are, they're chomping at the bit to get this 01:01:24.869 --> 01:01:27.090 program off the ground, up and running so they 01:01:27.090 --> 01:01:28.789 can go around to these stations and train people. 01:01:28.889 --> 01:01:32.300 It's. I'm so happy and blessed, like I said, 01:01:32.320 --> 01:01:35.079 to work for not only this county and this department, 01:01:35.219 --> 01:01:38.099 but also to have the membership underneath and 01:01:38.099 --> 01:01:40.699 behind me that they truly care. And all they 01:01:40.699 --> 01:01:43.019 want to see is our people to improve. But we 01:01:43.019 --> 01:01:44.659 have to have that performance standard. Like 01:01:44.659 --> 01:01:46.840 you said, it's unacceptable, right? It's unacceptable 01:01:46.840 --> 01:01:49.039 for someone not to want to get out of a chair. 01:01:49.300 --> 01:01:52.179 It's unacceptable for a new hire who's trying 01:01:52.179 --> 01:01:55.239 to get their JPRs checked off. And they go to 01:01:55.239 --> 01:01:57.280 a station asking, hey, can we go throw ladders? 01:01:57.539 --> 01:01:59.500 And no one wants to go out there and throw ladders 01:01:59.500 --> 01:02:03.059 with them. Right. That's unacceptable. We have 01:02:03.059 --> 01:02:06.880 to change our culture, you know, in the fire 01:02:06.880 --> 01:02:10.219 service. And maybe we can tie it to we've gotten 01:02:10.219 --> 01:02:12.739 beat down for a long time. Right. We're a product 01:02:12.739 --> 01:02:15.440 of the environment that we work in. But there 01:02:15.440 --> 01:02:17.539 has to be a part of you that pride and ownership, 01:02:17.679 --> 01:02:19.619 the reason why you got in this profession that 01:02:19.619 --> 01:02:23.139 is willing to help other people behind you and 01:02:23.139 --> 01:02:25.420 get better yourself. You know, if you're a captain 01:02:25.420 --> 01:02:28.079 in the station, a 30 minute workout a day with 01:02:28.079 --> 01:02:30.849 your crew. You know, that's all it takes. Hey, 01:02:30.929 --> 01:02:32.389 we're going to go out here. We're going to pull 01:02:32.389 --> 01:02:33.949 hoes today for 30 minutes. We're going to throw 01:02:33.949 --> 01:02:36.070 ladders. You know, I got a 25 year captain and 01:02:36.070 --> 01:02:38.869 we do that. It just all you have to do is just 01:02:38.869 --> 01:02:42.510 your leadership has to want to be in that position, 01:02:42.610 --> 01:02:44.829 has to want to do the job and has to still have 01:02:44.829 --> 01:02:46.530 the love for the job. That's the only way that 01:02:46.530 --> 01:02:48.289 you're going to. That's the only way we're going 01:02:48.289 --> 01:02:53.030 to change. In Orange County and then the last 01:02:53.030 --> 01:02:55.659 place I worked as well, this happened. I was 01:02:55.659 --> 01:02:58.639 into CrossFit deeply then. And I remember when 01:02:58.639 --> 01:03:00.500 I first got to the station that I ended up spending 01:03:00.500 --> 01:03:03.320 most of the time in, I would do a workout and 01:03:03.320 --> 01:03:05.360 it was just me. And, you know, I got to the point 01:03:05.360 --> 01:03:07.539 where I even hung like a rope from the tree and 01:03:07.539 --> 01:03:09.599 I had the gymnastic rings out there and all the, 01:03:09.599 --> 01:03:11.519 you know, the CrossFit things. And, you know, 01:03:11.519 --> 01:03:13.539 for the first few weeks, people would come out, 01:03:13.559 --> 01:03:15.119 maybe they'd talk and then they'd go back in 01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:19.380 again. But then one person joined me. And again, 01:03:19.480 --> 01:03:22.039 second followers we talked about. By the time 01:03:22.039 --> 01:03:24.590 I left that department, I'd go sometimes have 01:03:24.590 --> 01:03:26.789 the day off and come, you know, I'm just going 01:03:26.789 --> 01:03:28.210 to the airport or something. I dropped my car 01:03:28.210 --> 01:03:29.750 off at the station because we were close and 01:03:29.750 --> 01:03:32.389 my crew would be out there doing a workout and 01:03:32.389 --> 01:03:34.250 the same exact thing with the next department 01:03:34.250 --> 01:03:36.710 I work for. And I think that's just it is, you 01:03:36.710 --> 01:03:38.630 know, build it. They will come, you know, you 01:03:38.630 --> 01:03:41.090 can wait for mandatory fitness standards or you 01:03:41.090 --> 01:03:42.849 can just start creating that culture in your 01:03:42.849 --> 01:03:45.269 firehouse. And, you know, just another aside, 01:03:45.329 --> 01:03:47.550 and I've said this a few times and it's not a 01:03:47.550 --> 01:03:50.940 bragging statement. It's just illustrates. that 01:03:50.940 --> 01:03:53.599 even the age thing isn't an excuse for lowering 01:03:53.599 --> 01:03:56.280 standards. When I was 46, we're talking five 01:03:56.280 --> 01:03:58.800 years ago, I was getting ready to test in case 01:03:58.800 --> 01:04:01.380 the podcast, I couldn't sustain the sponsorship. 01:04:02.679 --> 01:04:05.039 And so I took the CPAT as part of the fire test 01:04:05.039 --> 01:04:08.239 thing. And I got 720, seven minutes, 20 seconds. 01:04:08.699 --> 01:04:10.380 And then when I got back, I was like, okay, that 01:04:10.380 --> 01:04:12.639 seemed like a good shot. And then everyone was 01:04:12.639 --> 01:04:14.260 like, oh yeah, you just basically, I think it 01:04:14.260 --> 01:04:16.289 was equal or beat. the record at the Florida 01:04:16.289 --> 01:04:19.070 state fire college. And that was a 46 years old. 01:04:19.130 --> 01:04:22.369 And I am prefacing this. I am not an Uber athlete, 01:04:22.389 --> 01:04:24.710 you know, in my cross, you know, my gym now, 01:04:24.869 --> 01:04:27.329 you know, in, in all the things, like I am not 01:04:27.329 --> 01:04:29.750 the guy that wins everything. I'm not the, you 01:04:29.750 --> 01:04:31.829 know, the misomorph, you know, Uber athlete. 01:04:31.889 --> 01:04:34.349 I'm just a regular bloke that realized that I 01:04:34.349 --> 01:04:37.110 had to train hard if I wanted to be a good firefighter. 01:04:37.150 --> 01:04:40.789 So my point is if at 46 years old, My skinny 01:04:40.789 --> 01:04:44.269 ass can get a 720 on a CPAT. Don't tell me that 01:04:44.269 --> 01:04:46.530 10 minutes, 20 seconds, three minutes later, 01:04:46.590 --> 01:04:50.630 an entire song on an album that you can't maintain 01:04:50.630 --> 01:04:53.190 that standard. So I think this is the thing, 01:04:53.230 --> 01:04:55.849 you know, walking the walk myself and just trying 01:04:55.849 --> 01:04:59.690 to maintain, you know, the highest level of fitness 01:04:59.690 --> 01:05:03.030 that James Gearing on his own personal path can 01:05:03.030 --> 01:05:07.280 maintain. it's not unfair to ask people to hold, 01:05:07.619 --> 01:05:10.400 you know, a reasonable fire ground -based physical 01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:14.480 standard. Right. No, I agree. You know, it was 01:05:14.480 --> 01:05:16.059 actually good. We didn't have a physical Jody 01:05:16.059 --> 01:05:19.659 exam for a while. I think I took one my first 01:05:19.659 --> 01:05:22.880 year and didn't take another one until last year. 01:05:22.880 --> 01:05:24.619 Yeah, so about eight years we were without one. 01:05:26.509 --> 01:05:28.289 Well, we do the fire sled fitness. I think it's 01:05:28.289 --> 01:05:29.989 a great program. You know, it was awesome to 01:05:29.989 --> 01:05:31.929 see also was the fire chief go out there and 01:05:31.929 --> 01:05:35.170 take it and pass and, you know, and do very well 01:05:35.170 --> 01:05:37.630 on it. I think that was encouraging to all of 01:05:37.630 --> 01:05:39.409 our membership, too. Right. Because what do you 01:05:39.409 --> 01:05:41.170 hear in the firehouse? Right. Oh, well, if we 01:05:41.170 --> 01:05:43.070 got to do the physical agility exam, the chiefs 01:05:43.070 --> 01:05:47.630 have to, too. I mean, everyone has said it to 01:05:47.630 --> 01:05:49.289 see them go out there and actually do it and 01:05:49.289 --> 01:05:53.889 perform. That's a big deal. But you have to lead 01:05:53.889 --> 01:05:56.409 from the front. There's a captain from my department. 01:05:56.869 --> 01:05:58.710 Anytime someone goes to bid his station, he tells 01:05:58.710 --> 01:05:59.849 them, hey, I'm just letting you know we work 01:05:59.849 --> 01:06:02.670 out for an hour every day, every shift. So if 01:06:02.670 --> 01:06:04.510 that's not what you want to do, don't come here. 01:06:05.769 --> 01:06:08.929 And then he's had guys that go to that station 01:06:08.929 --> 01:06:12.210 because he tells them that. It's, no, I need 01:06:12.210 --> 01:06:13.909 to work out. I need some help. I need to lose 01:06:13.909 --> 01:06:15.829 some weight. So they're going there to get that 01:06:15.829 --> 01:06:20.079 motivation from him. We have to bring the physical 01:06:20.079 --> 01:06:23.559 standards back to the fire service. It has to 01:06:23.559 --> 01:06:27.619 happen. Like you said, if you don't support that, 01:06:27.699 --> 01:06:30.019 it's basically you're saying, oh, I want you 01:06:30.019 --> 01:06:34.059 all to die early. We have to change the environment 01:06:34.059 --> 01:06:37.300 first, and then we can raise that bar back up. 01:06:37.579 --> 01:06:39.460 I mean, the bar should never have been lowered, 01:06:39.559 --> 01:06:43.380 but we have to fix the environment and then fix 01:06:43.380 --> 01:06:46.420 all the other things. The D -shift is a large 01:06:46.420 --> 01:06:48.139 piece of the pie, but it is just a piece of the 01:06:48.139 --> 01:06:51.429 pie. It's interesting because the special operations, 01:06:51.550 --> 01:06:54.949 special forces community hold us to the same 01:06:54.949 --> 01:06:56.789 standards themselves. And a lot of them, when 01:06:56.789 --> 01:06:58.590 they get into them, I just had a guy, Mike Connor 01:06:58.590 --> 01:07:03.809 on, you know, former army infantry ranger, physician's 01:07:03.809 --> 01:07:06.210 assistant, but he's now in frontline mobile. 01:07:06.469 --> 01:07:09.190 I think they're called, you know, working with 01:07:09.190 --> 01:07:11.710 us, doing screenings and psych evals and things. 01:07:11.909 --> 01:07:14.570 And so many of these people were just blown away 01:07:14.570 --> 01:07:17.619 that we don't have a standard. Because when they're 01:07:17.619 --> 01:07:20.719 overseas, our kind of military heroes, we're 01:07:20.719 --> 01:07:23.500 protecting their family. So, you know, it's crazy. 01:07:23.639 --> 01:07:25.360 And then the ocean lifeguards that I've had, 01:07:25.420 --> 01:07:26.960 you know, I was a lifeguard myself, not in the 01:07:26.960 --> 01:07:29.320 ocean, but open water and pools. You know, we 01:07:29.320 --> 01:07:32.659 are basically usually required to requalify every 01:07:32.659 --> 01:07:34.719 six months, every year, whatever it is. And if 01:07:34.719 --> 01:07:36.659 you don't, you don't. You're just not a lifeguard 01:07:36.659 --> 01:07:39.239 anymore. So this is, again, if you look at other 01:07:39.239 --> 01:07:41.280 professions where the physicality is imperative 01:07:41.280 --> 01:07:44.639 for your performance. Aside from a regular army 01:07:44.639 --> 01:07:47.519 where the standards might be lower, but the people 01:07:47.519 --> 01:07:50.880 that I would hold us next to are the special 01:07:50.880 --> 01:07:53.599 forces because we're the jack of all trades, 01:07:53.699 --> 01:07:56.000 master of none Swiss army, first responders. 01:07:56.659 --> 01:08:00.599 The physical requirements are, it's an unspoken 01:08:00.599 --> 01:08:02.380 rule. Of course, you'd have physical requirements. 01:08:02.559 --> 01:08:07.019 Why would you not when literally we are, the 01:08:07.019 --> 01:08:11.139 lives that are depending on us are... are requiring 01:08:11.139 --> 01:08:13.199 us to have a high level of strength fitness and 01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:17.439 mobility it's just that simple yeah we do we 01:08:17.439 --> 01:08:19.340 do have physical fitness standards it's just 01:08:19.340 --> 01:08:21.239 uh when you get out of fire school that's it 01:08:21.239 --> 01:08:26.640 after that you're good um yeah it it doesn't 01:08:26.640 --> 01:08:29.020 it doesn't make sense um you know but we need 01:08:29.020 --> 01:08:32.060 to fix the problem first before we can hold people 01:08:32.060 --> 01:08:35.180 to that line you know um like like i said earlier 01:08:35.920 --> 01:08:37.939 The firefighter that came in day one is a lot 01:08:37.939 --> 01:08:39.600 different than the firefighter at 10 years or 01:08:39.600 --> 01:08:41.619 20 years, depending on the system that you're 01:08:41.619 --> 01:08:48.239 in. So we have to fix that, improve our work 01:08:48.239 --> 01:08:50.340 life, our home life, and then we can raise that 01:08:50.340 --> 01:08:52.199 bar and you don't leave them behind. Right. You 01:08:52.199 --> 01:08:54.039 got to help them along the way. You know, it's 01:08:54.039 --> 01:08:56.359 not it's not their fault. I shouldn't say it's 01:08:56.359 --> 01:08:58.359 not their fault. It's not 100 percent their fault 01:08:58.359 --> 01:09:00.479 that they're in the situation that they're in. 01:09:00.760 --> 01:09:03.359 Right. So now we have to help them get to where 01:09:03.359 --> 01:09:05.529 they need to be. And if they don't want the help, 01:09:05.550 --> 01:09:07.649 if they don't want to improve, that's a decision 01:09:07.649 --> 01:09:12.069 that they're making. Absolutely. Well, you mentioned 01:09:12.069 --> 01:09:14.210 the fire sled. My friend Rick Segrist is the 01:09:14.210 --> 01:09:16.689 inventor of that. I've used it multiple times. 01:09:16.829 --> 01:09:20.770 I do a firefighter fitness challenge fundraiser 01:09:20.770 --> 01:09:22.970 every year called the 343 Hero Challenge, which 01:09:22.970 --> 01:09:26.229 is coming up next month. And so we use the Punisher 01:09:26.229 --> 01:09:30.310 and the Ladder Mill and the sled itself. Amazing, 01:09:30.369 --> 01:09:32.189 amazing tool. But that's my perspective. Talk 01:09:32.189 --> 01:09:36.250 to me about that and the ability to do the testing 01:09:36.250 --> 01:09:39.210 with that versus the old way of a CPAT with a 01:09:39.210 --> 01:09:41.930 bay full of equipment. I think it's an incredible 01:09:41.930 --> 01:09:45.189 program. I actually went and took the class when 01:09:45.189 --> 01:09:46.649 they came in to teach us how to use it. It was 01:09:46.649 --> 01:09:49.369 one of the first people on it. It's a hell of 01:09:49.369 --> 01:09:54.500 a workout. It makes sense for what we do. Right. 01:09:54.720 --> 01:09:58.460 Every every aspect of that test is something 01:09:58.460 --> 01:10:00.560 that a firefighter is going to do on the fire 01:10:00.560 --> 01:10:05.079 ground. You know, we we got our times and we 01:10:05.079 --> 01:10:07.479 had a study done and we got our time. I don't 01:10:07.479 --> 01:10:09.380 know off the top of my head what the actual time 01:10:09.380 --> 01:10:12.180 is to to hit it. But it's like it's over eight 01:10:12.180 --> 01:10:14.199 minutes. It's like 815. You know, they take your 01:10:14.199 --> 01:10:17.420 the men, the women, all your age groups, and 01:10:17.420 --> 01:10:19.890 they give you one time. So it's not based on 01:10:19.890 --> 01:10:22.010 your age. It's not based on your sex. It's one 01:10:22.010 --> 01:10:23.810 time for your department of where you need to 01:10:23.810 --> 01:10:27.489 be at. I don't know. I think it's a great program. 01:10:27.569 --> 01:10:29.890 I like it a lot better than the CPAT. We actually 01:10:29.890 --> 01:10:35.289 started as an agency. If you have the CPAT, we'll 01:10:35.289 --> 01:10:37.569 accept it. But you're still going to come in 01:10:37.569 --> 01:10:39.829 and you're going to do the fire sled. And you 01:10:39.829 --> 01:10:42.329 do not have to have the CPAT to come work for 01:10:42.329 --> 01:10:45.510 Pasco County. Every single new hire, before they 01:10:45.510 --> 01:10:48.340 get their job offer, has to come. pass the fire 01:10:48.340 --> 01:10:50.899 sled fitness. And then after that's the last 01:10:50.899 --> 01:10:53.100 step, once you pass that, then you get your offer. 01:10:54.119 --> 01:10:55.939 So I think it's a great program. It's a great 01:10:55.939 --> 01:10:58.279 tool. We've seen, you know, when I was at training, 01:10:58.279 --> 01:11:00.260 I was a training division for a little over a 01:11:00.260 --> 01:11:05.840 year and everyone coming into CPAP, but there, 01:11:05.899 --> 01:11:08.159 there were some struggles physically. And it's 01:11:08.159 --> 01:11:10.800 like, is this test really showing anything, you 01:11:10.800 --> 01:11:12.600 know, since we implemented the fire sled fitness 01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:15.880 program, you know, for day one, when you're getting 01:11:15.880 --> 01:11:18.420 hired. the physical standards have incredibly 01:11:18.420 --> 01:11:21.779 improved. You know, the mile and a half run times, 01:11:21.899 --> 01:11:24.720 just the physical abilities of the new hires. 01:11:25.420 --> 01:11:28.340 I think it's a better program and a better tool 01:11:28.340 --> 01:11:31.180 for you to use. Well, I've had this conversation 01:11:31.180 --> 01:11:33.579 with a few people too. When you put that bar 01:11:33.579 --> 01:11:36.199 up and recruitment becomes competitive again, 01:11:36.359 --> 01:11:39.840 you get candidates that are prepared on day one. 01:11:39.960 --> 01:11:42.760 And I'll use myself as an example. I was working 01:11:42.760 --> 01:11:45.300 for a publishing company, you know, nine to five. 01:11:45.760 --> 01:11:48.460 I would work out at the YMCA on my lunch break. 01:11:48.619 --> 01:11:51.760 I would get to the fire Academy early and do 01:11:51.760 --> 01:11:53.659 kind of like make my own, almost like combat 01:11:53.659 --> 01:11:56.399 challenge before we started class, I would run 01:11:56.399 --> 01:11:58.739 four and a half mile loop. I would do pull -ups 01:11:58.739 --> 01:12:01.060 on the stone steps outside the apartment. You 01:12:01.060 --> 01:12:04.039 know what I mean? I'm like, this is super competitive. 01:12:04.060 --> 01:12:05.840 And when I get out of this, there are only a 01:12:05.840 --> 01:12:08.970 few jobs available. you know, in this whole area. 01:12:09.149 --> 01:12:11.689 So I think this is what's exciting is you're 01:12:11.689 --> 01:12:13.750 going to get people starting to take it seriously. 01:12:13.909 --> 01:12:16.449 And unlike what we're seeing now, begging high 01:12:16.449 --> 01:12:19.090 school kids to come join or offering these huge 01:12:19.090 --> 01:12:22.170 hiring incentives, now you're going to go back 01:12:22.170 --> 01:12:24.890 to, well, you better show up on day one prepared. 01:12:25.149 --> 01:12:28.890 But then to be fair and to really lean into the 01:12:28.890 --> 01:12:31.890 diversity element, I think what's a great adjunct 01:12:31.890 --> 01:12:34.449 to that are these fantastic mentorship programs. 01:12:35.050 --> 01:12:37.229 where you give these young people a chance to 01:12:37.229 --> 01:12:43.670 prepare for Fire Academy, to prepare for an entrance, 01:12:43.850 --> 01:12:47.189 a hiring for a certain department, so that when 01:12:47.189 --> 01:12:49.670 they show up on day one, you're not remediating. 01:12:49.850 --> 01:12:53.050 You start off on the real work right from the 01:12:53.050 --> 01:12:55.210 beginning. Right. We shouldn't have to work on 01:12:55.210 --> 01:12:57.569 your cardio in your six weeks at the training 01:12:57.569 --> 01:12:58.909 center, right? You should come in here ready 01:12:58.909 --> 01:13:03.539 to go to work. We're getting that right. We're 01:13:03.539 --> 01:13:09.739 filtering those out. And what's great is we never 01:13:09.739 --> 01:13:12.079 lowered the bar for new hires going to the D 01:13:12.079 --> 01:13:15.380 shift. Right. We have rejected quite a few probations 01:13:15.380 --> 01:13:19.039 since we started hiring for the D shift. I was 01:13:19.039 --> 01:13:20.520 just talking to my chief about it the other day. 01:13:22.640 --> 01:13:24.279 We're not going to lower the bar. You're going 01:13:24.279 --> 01:13:26.159 to come work in Paso County. There's an expectation 01:13:26.159 --> 01:13:29.920 of what you have to be as a firefighter. We have 01:13:29.920 --> 01:13:32.739 140 plus applicants every time we open. I promise 01:13:32.739 --> 01:13:34.880 you, if we don't fill your seat today because 01:13:34.880 --> 01:13:36.699 you can't make it, we will fill it in the next 01:13:36.699 --> 01:13:40.579 class. So to to be able to have that standard 01:13:40.579 --> 01:13:45.300 where it was, you know, five years ago. Sign 01:13:45.300 --> 01:13:48.529 here. You're good to go. You know, and that was 01:13:48.529 --> 01:13:49.850 just because we weren't having the people come 01:13:49.850 --> 01:13:52.890 in the door. So the D shift just overall has 01:13:52.890 --> 01:13:54.850 created a better working environment, a safer, 01:13:54.930 --> 01:13:57.770 a safer county for the citizens of Pasco to live 01:13:57.770 --> 01:14:01.750 in. It's just it's it's been an incredible tool 01:14:01.750 --> 01:14:06.210 to to get the right people in the door. And we're 01:14:06.210 --> 01:14:08.350 doing that. And if you don't make if you don't 01:14:08.350 --> 01:14:13.420 make the cut, somebody else will. So. This job's 01:14:13.420 --> 01:14:14.979 not for everyone. I've said that. I'd be the 01:14:14.979 --> 01:14:19.779 world's worst accountant. You know, my special 01:14:19.779 --> 01:14:22.020 ops chief, he always says, he goes, we still 01:14:22.020 --> 01:14:26.279 need people to deliver pizzas. So, you know. 01:14:26.300 --> 01:14:28.260 Absolutely. And then hopefully, again, it's a 01:14:28.260 --> 01:14:30.479 remediation. If the bar is high and you go and 01:14:30.479 --> 01:14:33.550 you try and you don't make it that time. If you've 01:14:33.550 --> 01:14:35.350 got that burning in your heart, it's just, OK, 01:14:35.430 --> 01:14:37.430 look in the mirror. What did you get wrong? Where 01:14:37.430 --> 01:14:39.109 do you need to study? Where do you need to work 01:14:39.109 --> 01:14:41.710 on your strength, your fitness, whatever it is? 01:14:41.890 --> 01:14:44.710 Come back. Test again. That's what Anaheim used 01:14:44.710 --> 01:14:46.529 to say. It was like, look, we're not saying you 01:14:46.529 --> 01:14:47.989 shouldn't be a firefighter. We're just saying 01:14:47.989 --> 01:14:49.630 that you're not right for Anaheim, which, again, 01:14:49.710 --> 01:14:51.770 is an incredible amount of pride to be able to 01:14:51.770 --> 01:14:54.430 say that. But hopefully some of those young people 01:14:54.430 --> 01:14:56.569 had great careers in other departments or even 01:14:56.569 --> 01:14:58.840 maybe. Tested with Anaheim again, but that's 01:14:58.840 --> 01:15:01.460 what you want. You want those hungry men and 01:15:01.460 --> 01:15:04.060 women just fucking banging on your door, begging 01:15:04.060 --> 01:15:07.600 to work for you. We have one we just hired. I 01:15:07.600 --> 01:15:10.699 think they were two classes ago. They failed 01:15:10.699 --> 01:15:13.819 out probably close to two years ago from their 01:15:13.819 --> 01:15:17.579 probation. It was rejected, and they did what 01:15:17.579 --> 01:15:19.560 they needed to do, and they came back, and they're 01:15:19.560 --> 01:15:21.579 already off of probation, so now they're on their 01:15:21.579 --> 01:15:24.819 own for the next nine months, and they're looking 01:15:24.819 --> 01:15:28.279 pretty good. You're right. It's exciting to get 01:15:28.279 --> 01:15:29.640 those type of people in the door, right? The 01:15:29.640 --> 01:15:31.960 people that they want to be here, they want to 01:15:31.960 --> 01:15:33.840 work for Pasco County Fire. That's the only place 01:15:33.840 --> 01:15:36.460 they want to work. You know, we've had several 01:15:36.460 --> 01:15:38.640 that have rejected offers from the city of Tampa, 01:15:38.739 --> 01:15:41.079 which is unheard of. We've had several come over 01:15:41.079 --> 01:15:42.859 from Hillsborough County, which is also unheard 01:15:42.859 --> 01:15:45.800 of. You know, we're pulling those people in because 01:15:45.800 --> 01:15:48.199 of everything that we're doing, not just because 01:15:48.199 --> 01:15:50.399 of the D -SHIFT, the mental health initiatives. 01:15:51.739 --> 01:15:53.779 which I briefly touched on earlier. You know, 01:15:53.819 --> 01:15:56.000 we have unlimited visits with the contract at 01:15:56.000 --> 01:16:00.399 Tampa Bay Psychology Associations where any member, 01:16:00.420 --> 01:16:03.420 you have unlimited free visits. Anytime you need 01:16:03.420 --> 01:16:06.140 to go, you go. You look at the occupational health 01:16:06.140 --> 01:16:08.359 program that we have, our DECOM program, our 01:16:08.359 --> 01:16:11.560 special operations, the physical agility, you 01:16:11.560 --> 01:16:14.470 know. testing that we have going on. It's everything. 01:16:14.569 --> 01:16:15.970 We've raised the bar. We're getting the people 01:16:15.970 --> 01:16:17.449 in the door that we need to get. That's making 01:16:17.449 --> 01:16:21.130 Paso County the premier department in the state 01:16:21.130 --> 01:16:23.189 of Florida, in my opinion, and making Paso County 01:16:23.189 --> 01:16:28.369 the safest place to live. It's been amazing to 01:16:28.369 --> 01:16:30.869 see how our department has transformed in just 01:16:30.869 --> 01:16:35.449 three years. It really is. Incredible. Well, 01:16:35.489 --> 01:16:36.909 let's take a deep dive in some of the other ones 01:16:36.909 --> 01:16:38.449 that you hit. Let's start with the mental health 01:16:38.449 --> 01:16:43.869 program. One of the big things that's come out 01:16:43.869 --> 01:16:46.289 of this conversation is what I call the EAP Russian 01:16:46.289 --> 01:16:49.130 roulette. The number of people that have been, 01:16:49.229 --> 01:16:52.350 you know, had the courage to say, I need some 01:16:52.350 --> 01:16:55.529 help, have finally reached out, been put in front 01:16:55.529 --> 01:16:59.010 of a counselor who was completely wrong, burst 01:16:59.010 --> 01:17:01.470 into tears, told him to get out, say, I can't 01:17:01.470 --> 01:17:04.729 help you, or found someone maybe in the EAP or 01:17:04.729 --> 01:17:07.250 outside that, okay, this is a good fit. but it's 01:17:07.250 --> 01:17:10.810 $100, $150 for every visit. So talk to me about 01:17:10.810 --> 01:17:12.729 that, the kind of counselors that you've got 01:17:12.729 --> 01:17:15.850 access to, how you remove the barrier to entry 01:17:15.850 --> 01:17:18.010 as far as the financial side, because those are 01:17:18.010 --> 01:17:21.840 a huge, huge part of this puzzle as well. Yep. 01:17:22.300 --> 01:17:25.760 So we, Tampa Bay Psychology Associates is in 01:17:25.760 --> 01:17:28.020 Pinellas County. So St. Pete, Clearwater, that 01:17:28.020 --> 01:17:30.359 area, they have several offices in that county. 01:17:30.359 --> 01:17:32.920 They have a great relationship with those departments 01:17:32.920 --> 01:17:35.319 and those locals and they provide those services 01:17:35.319 --> 01:17:37.359 there. So that was how we kind of came in contact 01:17:37.359 --> 01:17:39.739 with them. You know, our district vice president, 01:17:39.779 --> 01:17:42.170 Rick Pauly at the time kind of. Hey, you guys 01:17:42.170 --> 01:17:46.489 need to talk to them. Dr. Benson runs Timber 01:17:46.489 --> 01:17:49.069 Bay Psychology Associates, and she's fantastic. 01:17:49.590 --> 01:17:51.430 Her team's fantastic. They actually just opened 01:17:51.430 --> 01:17:54.489 an office in Pasco County because of the volume 01:17:54.489 --> 01:17:56.649 of our membership going to see them, which is 01:17:56.649 --> 01:18:01.010 unbelievable to hear, right? Take advantage of 01:18:01.010 --> 01:18:05.390 the benefit that you have. So the county, it 01:18:05.390 --> 01:18:07.949 was an agreement that we came up with the county. 01:18:09.770 --> 01:18:11.329 Where they are going to cover all the visits, 01:18:11.470 --> 01:18:14.970 you know, we are self -insured. But they front 01:18:14.970 --> 01:18:17.930 the bill. That's an investment from the county 01:18:17.930 --> 01:18:22.569 into our people, into our members. So they have 01:18:22.569 --> 01:18:24.829 unlimited free visits. You can take your family. 01:18:25.670 --> 01:18:30.149 They do couples counseling. But. You know, they 01:18:30.149 --> 01:18:32.930 they will deploy if we have a CISM, if it's necessary, 01:18:33.229 --> 01:18:36.819 they will send. some of their team out to, to 01:18:36.819 --> 01:18:39.460 the station to talk to the crews. Uh, and they 01:18:39.460 --> 01:18:41.500 have a great relationship with us, with our, 01:18:41.520 --> 01:18:43.680 with our department, our health and safety chief, 01:18:43.760 --> 01:18:47.140 JJ Martinez kind of runs that program. Um, you 01:18:47.140 --> 01:18:49.420 know, it's great. Everything is anonymous. Um, 01:18:49.560 --> 01:18:52.199 everything, no one knows that you're going to 01:18:52.199 --> 01:18:54.079 the visits unless you're telling them, no one 01:18:54.079 --> 01:18:56.100 knows about the CISM unless you're telling them. 01:18:56.319 --> 01:18:59.600 Um, it's. And the people are buying into that, 01:18:59.619 --> 01:19:01.520 right? When they know that their business isn't 01:19:01.520 --> 01:19:03.359 being talked about and gossiped, oh, so -and 01:19:03.359 --> 01:19:06.659 -so is going to see a therapist. It's encouraged 01:19:06.659 --> 01:19:10.380 in Pasco County. And like I said, they had to 01:19:10.380 --> 01:19:11.600 open an office. They're talking about hiring 01:19:11.600 --> 01:19:14.720 more staff just because the volume from our department, 01:19:14.899 --> 01:19:19.220 which I think is great. Well, tagging on to the 01:19:19.220 --> 01:19:20.779 performance side, I think this is what's really 01:19:20.779 --> 01:19:24.539 exciting. Again, mental health access has always 01:19:24.539 --> 01:19:27.650 been, well, because people are struggling. Yes, 01:19:27.650 --> 01:19:30.130 absolutely. And we know, as you said, when you 01:19:30.130 --> 01:19:32.890 reduce barriers to entry, all of a sudden the 01:19:32.890 --> 01:19:35.350 floodgates open. That's a huge indicator of the 01:19:35.350 --> 01:19:38.149 problem that was behind closed doors. But it 01:19:38.149 --> 01:19:41.350 goes so much further than that. It's also forging 01:19:41.350 --> 01:19:43.890 performance. I had a baseball player on Logan 01:19:43.890 --> 01:19:46.510 Gelbrich. I've told this story a few times. And 01:19:46.510 --> 01:19:48.510 he was talking about a flow state moment in one 01:19:48.510 --> 01:19:51.069 of his games. And he kind of broke it down because 01:19:51.069 --> 01:19:53.250 he's also a human performance coach. And he's 01:19:53.250 --> 01:19:55.680 like, to get into the flow state. He said, you 01:19:55.680 --> 01:19:58.239 need to have, you know, 10 ,000 reps or whatever 01:19:58.239 --> 01:20:00.319 it is. You obviously got to have done something 01:20:00.319 --> 01:20:02.520 along, you know, a lot of times you got to have 01:20:02.520 --> 01:20:04.460 a high stress environment. Well, anyone who's 01:20:04.460 --> 01:20:05.920 been on the fire service, any amount of time 01:20:05.920 --> 01:20:08.260 has those two. And he said, and you've got to 01:20:08.260 --> 01:20:10.699 have a clear mind. It's like, well, there's the 01:20:10.699 --> 01:20:13.340 missing piece. So again, chest beating, you know, 01:20:13.380 --> 01:20:15.939 mustachioed, leather herring, leather helmet 01:20:15.939 --> 01:20:19.319 wearing hero. You're all about it's for them. 01:20:19.600 --> 01:20:23.159 If you're not doing the mental health work. how 01:20:23.159 --> 01:20:25.340 what you know what is the likelihood that you're 01:20:25.340 --> 01:20:27.579 going to make entry into that that burning building 01:20:27.579 --> 01:20:30.159 and you're going to have the clarity of mind 01:20:30.159 --> 01:20:32.939 to really map out that room as you do in a primary 01:20:32.939 --> 01:20:36.600 you know so you're not if you didn't want the 01:20:36.600 --> 01:20:39.119 sleep you actually voted to do 48 hours straight 01:20:39.119 --> 01:20:42.319 you think mental health is bullshit and now you're 01:20:42.319 --> 01:20:44.539 in there and you're already shitting your pants 01:20:44.539 --> 01:20:47.939 15 feet from the window because you're lost So 01:20:47.939 --> 01:20:49.460 I think this is the other thing that's really 01:20:49.460 --> 01:20:51.220 exciting is that there's the healing element, 01:20:51.319 --> 01:20:54.359 which is imperative. But as we progress, it's 01:20:54.359 --> 01:20:56.300 actually sports psychology, like getting into 01:20:56.300 --> 01:20:59.260 the performance side. So now you're climbing 01:20:59.260 --> 01:21:01.439 a hundred foot aerial without any problem because 01:21:01.439 --> 01:21:03.279 you've overcome the kind of fear that you had 01:21:03.279 --> 01:21:05.979 before. Your mind is calm and you literally are 01:21:05.979 --> 01:21:08.380 painting that room with your hands like you did 01:21:08.380 --> 01:21:11.100 in the academy. We had all those reps. So I think 01:21:11.100 --> 01:21:13.000 this is what's exciting as well is that we're 01:21:13.000 --> 01:21:15.119 going to see. healing and the mental health side 01:21:15.119 --> 01:21:17.619 but we're also going to have performance if people 01:21:17.619 --> 01:21:20.039 keep leaning into these tune -ups with these 01:21:20.039 --> 01:21:25.039 counselors right you know i mean like the mental 01:21:25.039 --> 01:21:27.140 clarity is you're coming to work too just a better 01:21:27.140 --> 01:21:29.180 attitude right you're happier you're mentally 01:21:29.180 --> 01:21:31.779 healthier uh hopefully your home life is better 01:21:31.779 --> 01:21:34.260 um you know and talking about mental clarity 01:21:35.229 --> 01:21:37.050 The divorce rates and the fire service, and once 01:21:37.050 --> 01:21:39.630 again, going back to the 24 -72s, right, being 01:21:39.630 --> 01:21:42.390 home and present. If you're going through a divorce, 01:21:42.609 --> 01:21:44.609 I've been there, right? When you're at work, 01:21:44.649 --> 01:21:46.949 you're not thinking about work. You're thinking 01:21:46.949 --> 01:21:48.710 about what's going on at home, you know, what 01:21:48.710 --> 01:21:53.909 you're going through. But yeah, to be able to, 01:21:53.930 --> 01:21:56.789 at any moment, you pick up the phone, they have 01:21:56.789 --> 01:21:59.109 a 24 -7 line, right? If it's an emergency that 01:21:59.109 --> 01:22:01.510 you can call Tampa Bay Psychology and they'll 01:22:01.510 --> 01:22:03.079 answer, they'll schedule you a visit. Either 01:22:03.079 --> 01:22:04.960 if it's immediate, it'll be immediate. They'll 01:22:04.960 --> 01:22:06.399 talk to you on the phone, get you in there the 01:22:06.399 --> 01:22:10.340 next day. But you're seeing members taking it 01:22:10.340 --> 01:22:12.680 as a preventative measure. Right. Not because 01:22:12.680 --> 01:22:15.939 that, you know, you're having suicidal thoughts 01:22:15.939 --> 01:22:18.960 today. Right. It's you want to prevent yourself 01:22:18.960 --> 01:22:22.000 from getting there and staying mentally, mentally 01:22:22.000 --> 01:22:24.159 clear, you know, working on yourself and your 01:22:24.159 --> 01:22:25.779 family and just talking about the things that 01:22:25.779 --> 01:22:30.220 we see every day. It's an important part of what 01:22:30.220 --> 01:22:35.119 we do. I'm glad that, you know, I believe that 01:22:35.119 --> 01:22:37.119 we're leading the way. You know, we have people 01:22:37.119 --> 01:22:39.880 in our command structure that believe in this. 01:22:40.199 --> 01:22:43.939 And that's what it takes to get this thing done. 01:22:45.020 --> 01:22:47.460 What are you seeing as far as overall morale? 01:22:47.619 --> 01:22:49.420 Not just the work week, obviously, these other 01:22:49.420 --> 01:22:51.739 things, but, you know, what is that shift now? 01:22:52.360 --> 01:22:56.100 I think it's fantastic. Obviously, every department 01:22:56.100 --> 01:22:59.119 is going to have little bumps, right? And that's 01:22:59.119 --> 01:23:00.420 what I would call them. There's always things 01:23:00.420 --> 01:23:04.359 that might not make people happy. The most recent 01:23:04.359 --> 01:23:06.960 one is we're moving the ladders in the stations 01:23:06.960 --> 01:23:09.220 where they're currently at, moving two of them 01:23:09.220 --> 01:23:15.920 to new stations. It makes sense. And the people 01:23:15.920 --> 01:23:17.560 that are at those stations are going to have 01:23:17.560 --> 01:23:20.779 to leave. Or sign a condition of bids saying 01:23:20.779 --> 01:23:22.340 they're going to have to take some USAR classes. 01:23:23.000 --> 01:23:24.859 You know, that was kind of a heavy thing. But 01:23:24.859 --> 01:23:27.979 in the grand scheme of things, I think it's beneficial 01:23:27.979 --> 01:23:30.420 for the department. And honestly, a lot of people 01:23:30.420 --> 01:23:32.319 understood it right when you explained it. That 01:23:32.319 --> 01:23:34.180 was one bump in the road that we've had with 01:23:34.180 --> 01:23:36.939 the transition that's going on. But overall, 01:23:37.020 --> 01:23:38.920 the morale is great. Our special operations team 01:23:38.920 --> 01:23:42.060 is a big deal. We have a lot of people that are 01:23:42.060 --> 01:23:44.560 involved with that, that are excited about the 01:23:44.560 --> 01:23:49.170 expansion of that program. You know, honestly, 01:23:49.329 --> 01:23:52.770 I haven't heard very many negatives, you know, 01:23:52.770 --> 01:23:55.350 and the things that you do here, you know, they're 01:23:55.350 --> 01:23:58.130 there. That's low hanging fruit or small things. 01:24:00.289 --> 01:24:03.630 Three years ago, I would say, you know, even 01:24:03.630 --> 01:24:07.350 the surveys that we did reflected it. It was 01:24:07.350 --> 01:24:09.489 pretty low. The morale was very low in Pasco 01:24:09.489 --> 01:24:11.869 County and it's going to done a complete 180. 01:24:12.149 --> 01:24:16.069 I think it's the best that I've ever seen for 01:24:16.069 --> 01:24:18.850 everything. You know, I think. The union, the 01:24:18.850 --> 01:24:21.329 last several years, has proven our worth to our 01:24:21.329 --> 01:24:23.789 membership. We've advocated for our membership. 01:24:23.890 --> 01:24:26.390 So we have a lot of support there. The department 01:24:26.390 --> 01:24:28.329 has done the same. We have a lot of support there. 01:24:28.430 --> 01:24:30.630 Our politicians have done the same. You know, 01:24:30.630 --> 01:24:32.149 when you look at all the programs that are starting 01:24:32.149 --> 01:24:35.850 to come online, you know, it's great to see other 01:24:35.850 --> 01:24:38.430 programs expanding, you know, other divisions 01:24:38.430 --> 01:24:41.619 inside of our department. outside of just the 01:24:41.619 --> 01:24:43.960 D shift, right? We didn't put everything on hold 01:24:43.960 --> 01:24:45.859 so that we could get this shift done. We're improving 01:24:45.859 --> 01:24:50.500 everything. Um, I don't know. It's, it's been 01:24:50.500 --> 01:24:53.720 great. It's, it's actually, uh, it's, it's a 01:24:53.720 --> 01:24:55.479 good place to go to work, you know, every day. 01:24:55.819 --> 01:24:59.859 Um, so yeah, I think it's great. I think it's 01:24:59.859 --> 01:25:01.359 great right now and hopefully we keep it going. 01:25:02.340 --> 01:25:05.300 Amazing. We also mentioned occupational physicals. 01:25:05.300 --> 01:25:09.119 Let's talk about those. Yeah. So we, uh, In our 01:25:09.119 --> 01:25:11.420 last in this contract that we're currently in, 01:25:11.479 --> 01:25:14.100 we negotiated that your occupational physical 01:25:14.100 --> 01:25:16.859 is going to be mandatory. You know, before it 01:25:16.859 --> 01:25:20.140 was voluntary and we only had it for a year, 01:25:20.239 --> 01:25:22.819 you know, had never gone through an occupational 01:25:22.819 --> 01:25:25.899 physical since I've been hired until my first 01:25:25.899 --> 01:25:29.359 one with with our health department. So if you're 01:25:29.359 --> 01:25:31.819 over the age of 35, you're required to take it, 01:25:31.880 --> 01:25:33.760 you know, to go get the physical done every year. 01:25:33.819 --> 01:25:35.659 If you're under the age of 35, it's biannually. 01:25:36.720 --> 01:25:38.579 What's cool about that is that so it's not just 01:25:38.579 --> 01:25:40.840 it's, you know, obviously we're doing the ultrasound 01:25:40.840 --> 01:25:43.279 from the neck down. You do your blood work for 01:25:43.279 --> 01:25:45.100 our special operations guys. You know, they're 01:25:45.100 --> 01:25:48.859 getting heavy metal screenings. We've built that 01:25:48.859 --> 01:25:51.890 program. Everything is in -house. We have a nurse 01:25:51.890 --> 01:25:53.989 practitioner that oversees the program. We have 01:25:53.989 --> 01:25:56.449 another nurse who is the administrator who is 01:25:56.449 --> 01:26:00.430 a firefighter for us and also is an RN. We have 01:26:00.430 --> 01:26:04.989 an ultrasound tech in -house. We have all of 01:26:04.989 --> 01:26:06.829 these things there. We have the equipment there. 01:26:08.229 --> 01:26:09.810 So you go through this whole process. You get 01:26:09.810 --> 01:26:11.310 your blood work done. You get your stress test 01:26:11.310 --> 01:26:14.170 done. You do the ultrasounds. Oh, and then we 01:26:14.170 --> 01:26:17.569 just started offering MRIs of the brain, CTs 01:26:17.569 --> 01:26:22.250 of the chest. And calcium scores. So trying to 01:26:22.250 --> 01:26:24.550 improve, you know, everything that we can see, 01:26:24.590 --> 01:26:28.250 you know, we've caught several cancers in our 01:26:28.250 --> 01:26:30.409 members. They've all been caught in stage one. 01:26:31.430 --> 01:26:35.449 No one had to do chemo. So it's it's been a huge 01:26:35.449 --> 01:26:40.270 success. It's a great program. You know, it's 01:26:40.270 --> 01:26:42.390 nice to just you go to headquarters and get it 01:26:42.390 --> 01:26:44.180 done. You know, you go get your blood work elsewhere. 01:26:44.319 --> 01:26:46.039 Obviously, your scans are going to be elsewhere 01:26:46.039 --> 01:26:49.899 in Advent Health. That's our partner. But everything 01:26:49.899 --> 01:26:51.539 else is in -house with people that you know. 01:26:54.220 --> 01:26:58.340 It's fantastic. And like I said, I mean, it's 01:26:58.340 --> 01:27:01.260 caught it's caught cancers early, which is that's 01:27:01.260 --> 01:27:02.979 a benefit for the department as well. Right. 01:27:03.060 --> 01:27:04.319 And for the county, like I said earlier, you 01:27:04.319 --> 01:27:06.340 know, we're self -insured. So it's lowering their 01:27:06.340 --> 01:27:08.920 cost, you know, a stage one just surgical removal 01:27:08.920 --> 01:27:12.930 versus. a stage four or stage three, right? More 01:27:12.930 --> 01:27:16.510 aggressive long -term treatments. We're doing 01:27:16.510 --> 01:27:18.630 all the right things, you know, and that goes 01:27:18.630 --> 01:27:23.010 right in line with our decon program that leads 01:27:23.010 --> 01:27:27.430 the nation, if not the industry. You know, we 01:27:27.430 --> 01:27:29.890 have a decon truck on each side of the county, 01:27:29.909 --> 01:27:35.010 east and west. And one, you know, one's an actual. 01:27:35.760 --> 01:27:39.039 Decon truck, 35 feet. The other one is just a 01:27:39.039 --> 01:27:41.300 box truck on the back. It's just lined with bunker 01:27:41.300 --> 01:27:44.300 gear. So every structure fire, they show up, 01:27:44.319 --> 01:27:47.079 they're manned 24 -7, two personnel on each truck. 01:27:47.439 --> 01:27:49.279 They show up to your structure fire, they set 01:27:49.279 --> 01:27:52.079 up their tables. And while you're working. They're 01:27:52.079 --> 01:27:55.119 on Telestaff, our manning software, looking at 01:27:55.119 --> 01:27:57.039 your name, seeing who's inside, going to their 01:27:57.039 --> 01:27:59.140 program, pulling up your sizes. So when you come 01:27:59.140 --> 01:28:00.899 out that fire, you get washed off, you go to 01:28:00.899 --> 01:28:03.060 the decon truck, you show up. They have a bag 01:28:03.060 --> 01:28:04.739 for your dirty gear and they have all your clean 01:28:04.739 --> 01:28:07.300 gear set up, ready and waiting for you. I mean, 01:28:07.340 --> 01:28:12.989 it's it took a while to get the buy in. You know, 01:28:13.010 --> 01:28:14.609 when it first started, obviously, it's the I 01:28:14.609 --> 01:28:16.270 don't want anyone touching my gear. You know, 01:28:16.310 --> 01:28:19.050 you want you want the dirty gear, you know, the 01:28:19.050 --> 01:28:21.810 black helmet, all of that. And that's completely 01:28:21.810 --> 01:28:23.789 changed. It took several years. It took one of 01:28:23.789 --> 01:28:27.069 our members who passed away from cancer. Jason 01:28:27.069 --> 01:28:30.529 Tucker passed away from glioblastoma. You know, 01:28:30.529 --> 01:28:33.789 it really took his fight, his advocacy for the 01:28:33.789 --> 01:28:36.710 program to kind of change the culture in our 01:28:36.710 --> 01:28:39.210 department when it came to decon. And what I'm 01:28:39.210 --> 01:28:42.460 excited. To see long term is the effects of our 01:28:42.460 --> 01:28:44.439 occupational health program. You know, all the 01:28:44.439 --> 01:28:46.819 testing that we're doing there, pairing with 01:28:46.819 --> 01:28:49.359 the decon program, you know, making sure that 01:28:49.359 --> 01:28:51.699 you're out of that dirty gear as soon as possible. 01:28:52.420 --> 01:28:54.840 You go out of service and shower within the hour, 01:28:54.920 --> 01:28:58.159 you know, to see how those things combined, what 01:28:58.159 --> 01:29:00.079 that does to our cancer rates in Pasco County. 01:29:01.439 --> 01:29:03.859 I heard from someone who I think had a mustache 01:29:03.859 --> 01:29:06.560 and leather helmet tell me that clean cabs stop 01:29:06.560 --> 01:29:11.600 grabs. Is that true? I don't believe so. You 01:29:11.600 --> 01:29:13.979 know, I mean, we're not a clean cab department, 01:29:14.380 --> 01:29:17.020 right? Because we have our SCBAs and our bunker 01:29:17.020 --> 01:29:19.479 gear in the cabs. If you don't want to do the 01:29:19.479 --> 01:29:24.800 clean cab trucks, I was talking to our logistics 01:29:24.800 --> 01:29:28.079 chief, you know, it's about $20 ,000 to $30 ,000 01:29:28.079 --> 01:29:30.100 more expensive, right, to have a clean cab truck. 01:29:30.239 --> 01:29:31.739 But you don't have to take the gear out of the 01:29:31.739 --> 01:29:34.060 truck to make it a clean cab. Give them clean 01:29:34.060 --> 01:29:36.859 gear. Right. You give it to them on scene. We 01:29:36.859 --> 01:29:39.619 have the micro units that wash your mask and 01:29:39.619 --> 01:29:41.659 the air packs. So when you come out, they throw 01:29:41.659 --> 01:29:43.479 the air packs in there. They get washed within 01:29:43.479 --> 01:29:45.500 minutes. Don't put those in the truck. Clean 01:29:45.500 --> 01:29:49.199 gear. It's a clean cab. But once again, it goes 01:29:49.199 --> 01:29:52.960 into investing in your people. Right. A lot of 01:29:52.960 --> 01:29:54.659 departments have that second set of gear. Where's 01:29:54.659 --> 01:29:57.239 that second set of gear? It's back at the station. 01:29:57.680 --> 01:29:59.819 So now we're getting in, you know, unless you're 01:29:59.819 --> 01:30:01.479 throwing your bunker gear in a trash bag and 01:30:01.479 --> 01:30:03.779 throwing in the cab, your gears and the truck, 01:30:03.859 --> 01:30:05.659 right? Your radio straps, your leather straps. 01:30:07.380 --> 01:30:09.739 That's a big issue. We had talked about it, you 01:30:09.739 --> 01:30:13.779 know, on the helmet. Yeah. It absorbs all those 01:30:13.779 --> 01:30:16.659 carcinogens. There's no way that you can clean 01:30:16.659 --> 01:30:20.640 them. You know, I get they're lightweight. They're 01:30:20.640 --> 01:30:24.619 traditional. I love the way they look, right? 01:30:25.960 --> 01:30:29.520 But when you look at your long term health, the 01:30:29.520 --> 01:30:32.060 the increase in risk that you're going to have, 01:30:32.079 --> 01:30:34.060 to me, it doesn't make sense. You know, for my 01:30:34.060 --> 01:30:37.199 my personal choice would not to be to not wear 01:30:37.199 --> 01:30:40.020 leather. It's porous. Right. It's going to absorb 01:30:40.020 --> 01:30:41.939 all that. And there's no way for you to clean 01:30:41.939 --> 01:30:45.890 it. Met a gentleman at the Florida Fire Chiefs 01:30:45.890 --> 01:30:48.069 Association last year who we talked about on 01:30:48.069 --> 01:30:50.510 the phone. He's developing a new radio strap 01:30:50.510 --> 01:30:54.189 made out of Kevlar because his wife was diagnosed 01:30:54.189 --> 01:30:57.949 with a very rare form of cancer. That's already 01:30:57.949 --> 01:31:00.529 out. Safer straps, they're called. Is it safer 01:31:00.529 --> 01:31:03.250 straps? Yep. So, you know, the University of 01:31:03.250 --> 01:31:06.949 Miami actually went to his home to find out how 01:31:06.949 --> 01:31:10.229 his wife got this specific type of cancer because 01:31:10.229 --> 01:31:12.949 of how rare it is. And they found it that morning. 01:31:13.550 --> 01:31:16.069 He told his dad he would come home from shift. 01:31:16.130 --> 01:31:18.449 He put his radio strap on the key holder in the 01:31:18.449 --> 01:31:21.329 garage and put his gear in there. And every morning 01:31:21.329 --> 01:31:22.689 when she would go to leave, she was eating the 01:31:22.689 --> 01:31:24.270 English muffin. She put the English muffin in 01:31:24.270 --> 01:31:26.510 her mouth, move his radio strap, grab the keys, 01:31:26.630 --> 01:31:28.930 start eating her English muffin. She was ingesting 01:31:28.930 --> 01:31:32.729 the carcinogens from his radio strap and directly 01:31:32.729 --> 01:31:36.149 got cancer from that is what the study showed. 01:31:36.270 --> 01:31:41.279 So, you know, we do not. Obviously, we have some 01:31:41.279 --> 01:31:42.760 members of leather helmets and leather straps, 01:31:42.920 --> 01:31:46.039 but we have department issued radio straps and 01:31:46.039 --> 01:31:48.260 obviously helmets. They get cleaned. They can 01:31:48.260 --> 01:31:53.880 be cleaned. It's about reducing that risk. I 01:31:53.880 --> 01:31:58.699 don't want to do this profession for 30 years. 01:31:59.680 --> 01:32:02.180 Two years into my retirement, I end up with stage 01:32:02.180 --> 01:32:05.060 three, stage four cancer. And while that's a 01:32:05.060 --> 01:32:07.260 risk that obviously we're all willing to take, 01:32:07.460 --> 01:32:10.159 I'm going to do everything I can to lower it. 01:32:10.430 --> 01:32:14.470 that risk right um and our department has invested 01:32:14.470 --> 01:32:17.390 in lowering those risks as well you know in all 01:32:17.390 --> 01:32:21.350 facets we didn't really touch on this when we 01:32:21.350 --> 01:32:23.130 talked about the d shift but when you look at 01:32:23.130 --> 01:32:27.010 the shift work in general right working overnights 01:32:27.010 --> 01:32:30.229 you know i arc the international association 01:32:30.229 --> 01:32:34.750 of research on cancer shift work is a 2a carcinogen 01:32:34.750 --> 01:32:37.390 which means that it probably causes cancer in 01:32:37.390 --> 01:32:41.600 humans firefighting is level one known to cause 01:32:41.600 --> 01:32:43.659 cancer in humans. So when you add those two things 01:32:43.659 --> 01:32:47.060 together, and when I was in Canada working on 01:32:47.060 --> 01:32:49.840 their nationwide decontamination program two 01:32:49.840 --> 01:32:52.220 years ago, there was a representative from IRF 01:32:52.220 --> 01:32:54.819 that was there and said, in the following years, 01:32:54.880 --> 01:32:58.920 you are going to see shift work become a level 01:32:58.920 --> 01:33:01.199 one carcinogen known to cause cancer in humans. 01:33:01.520 --> 01:33:04.460 So we have all these inherent risks when we work 01:33:04.460 --> 01:33:07.310 in our profession. We need to start reducing 01:33:07.310 --> 01:33:10.289 those. Right. The decon program, showering, showering 01:33:10.289 --> 01:33:12.569 within the hour, reducing our hourly work week, 01:33:12.670 --> 01:33:14.609 you know, ensuring that our that our members 01:33:14.609 --> 01:33:17.470 and departments, employees and firefighters have 01:33:17.470 --> 01:33:20.010 adequate recovery times. And then you have a 01:33:20.010 --> 01:33:21.930 robust occupational health physical so that, 01:33:22.010 --> 01:33:25.850 God forbid, you do get cancer or any other type 01:33:25.850 --> 01:33:28.170 of health issue. Right. Cardiovascularly, you 01:33:28.170 --> 01:33:30.909 know, aneurysms, anything like that, that they're 01:33:30.909 --> 01:33:35.619 caught early when they're treatable. You know, 01:33:35.619 --> 01:33:39.859 tired of going to funerals, you know, so we need 01:33:39.859 --> 01:33:44.539 to change this culture. I don't know. It needs 01:33:44.539 --> 01:33:46.500 to happen. And we're happy to lead the way. And 01:33:46.500 --> 01:33:48.720 hopefully people's people start following suit, 01:33:48.800 --> 01:33:50.699 you know, with all the other programs that we 01:33:50.699 --> 01:33:54.380 have going on. You see this picture over my shoulder 01:33:54.380 --> 01:33:57.880 here? Yeah. The schematic of the original leather 01:33:57.880 --> 01:34:02.199 helmet. It's from 1937. I think one of the things 01:34:02.199 --> 01:34:05.359 that we've got really skewed is history versus 01:34:05.359 --> 01:34:08.479 tradition. That is history. That's a hat made 01:34:08.479 --> 01:34:11.699 out of a dead cow. That's not tradition. Tradition 01:34:11.699 --> 01:34:15.340 is camaraderie and courage and teamwork and selfless 01:34:15.340 --> 01:34:18.560 service. That's fire service tradition. And what 01:34:18.560 --> 01:34:20.560 kills me is people think, well, if I just stick 01:34:20.560 --> 01:34:22.640 that on my head, then all of a sudden I'm a fucking 01:34:22.640 --> 01:34:26.300 rock star firefighter. And now you have pushback 01:34:26.300 --> 01:34:28.800 on the fact that, as we just said. The leather 01:34:28.800 --> 01:34:32.119 version of that is completely, you cannot decontaminate 01:34:32.119 --> 01:34:34.699 it. So you keep putting this carcinogen on your 01:34:34.699 --> 01:34:36.899 head over and over again. And with the leather 01:34:36.899 --> 01:34:38.739 straps, how many people do we know in a fire 01:34:38.739 --> 01:34:40.539 service that have thyroid cancer? But where does 01:34:40.539 --> 01:34:43.560 that strap sit on an EMS call? And I was, you 01:34:43.560 --> 01:34:44.819 know, it's happened to me. I had leather straps 01:34:44.819 --> 01:34:47.560 most of my career until Dustin Hawkins, who's 01:34:47.560 --> 01:34:50.260 the founder of fire straps, you know, told me 01:34:50.260 --> 01:34:51.840 about it. And that was kind of right at the end 01:34:51.840 --> 01:34:54.020 of my career anyway. So I never got one of his 01:34:54.020 --> 01:34:57.399 straps, but this push against it. If people are 01:34:57.399 --> 01:34:58.939 like, oh, it's traditional. All right, well, 01:34:59.000 --> 01:35:01.920 then why are you wearing a fucking pack? If it's 01:35:01.920 --> 01:35:03.720 about tradition, you should be arriving on a 01:35:03.720 --> 01:35:07.199 horse with your tunic and then climbing your 01:35:07.199 --> 01:35:09.159 ass through that fire and pulling the person 01:35:09.159 --> 01:35:11.699 out while you suck through your beard. It's not 01:35:11.699 --> 01:35:13.739 about fucking. It's not tradition. So stop fucking 01:35:13.739 --> 01:35:16.659 saying it's tradition. It's regression. Very 01:35:16.659 --> 01:35:19.539 different. We are losing men and women to cancer 01:35:19.539 --> 01:35:23.130 on a daily basis. Same with the mental health 01:35:23.130 --> 01:35:25.090 conversation. We are losing, you know, what's 01:35:25.090 --> 01:35:27.550 even worse, police officers and military members 01:35:27.550 --> 01:35:31.430 who survived a military or law enforcement career 01:35:31.430 --> 01:35:34.010 and then stuck a fucking gun in their mouth because 01:35:34.010 --> 01:35:36.470 we refuse to do the things that are preventable 01:35:36.470 --> 01:35:38.770 in the career. And it's the same with this, whether 01:35:38.770 --> 01:35:41.050 you subscribe to the, you know, the more advanced 01:35:41.050 --> 01:35:43.350 helmet that a lot of our European men and women 01:35:43.350 --> 01:35:46.350 wear, which is just better. Hate to tell you. 01:35:46.670 --> 01:35:48.289 You don't look like Kurt Russell anymore, but 01:35:48.289 --> 01:35:50.989 it's actually for them, truly for them. It's 01:35:50.989 --> 01:35:52.569 not for you because it wasn't supposed to be 01:35:52.569 --> 01:35:55.189 a fucking fashion show. It's a service profession. 01:35:55.949 --> 01:35:58.329 But at least even if you're going to wear the 01:35:58.329 --> 01:36:00.430 old style helmet, which I don't know if you saw 01:36:00.430 --> 01:36:02.109 that bailout video that went around the other 01:36:02.109 --> 01:36:04.350 day. The first thing that happened when that 01:36:04.350 --> 01:36:06.229 firefighter came out that window was his helmet 01:36:06.229 --> 01:36:09.069 fell off. That would not have happened with a 01:36:09.069 --> 01:36:10.949 European helmet, just so you know. But anyway. 01:36:11.720 --> 01:36:13.640 If you're worried about how you look, you're 01:36:13.640 --> 01:36:15.340 in the wrong profession. It's whether you can 01:36:15.340 --> 01:36:17.760 do the job or not. But certainly with these leather 01:36:17.760 --> 01:36:20.699 radio straps, helmets, et cetera. And I had Paul 01:36:20.699 --> 01:36:23.319 Conway on the show long ago, who was a huge proponent 01:36:23.319 --> 01:36:26.380 of the Euro helmet. His company makes leather 01:36:26.380 --> 01:36:29.560 shields for helmets. So if Paul's saying it, 01:36:29.659 --> 01:36:31.020 then that means that we got to pay attention. 01:36:31.159 --> 01:36:33.960 But yeah, when you're again, that voice, I want 01:36:33.960 --> 01:36:36.340 to do a 48 or I want to have my leather helmet, 01:36:36.420 --> 01:36:39.260 understand that you are saying, I want more of 01:36:39.260 --> 01:36:42.310 my people to die. Because we've got to stop that 01:36:42.310 --> 01:36:45.350 bullshit conversation of its tradition when it's 01:36:45.350 --> 01:36:48.850 not. Tradition are the things that make us firefighters. 01:36:49.050 --> 01:36:52.029 The other stuff is just a costume. And Navy SEALs 01:36:52.029 --> 01:36:54.670 are not wearing tin helmets, newsflash. They're 01:36:54.670 --> 01:36:56.649 wearing the latest things. And our profession 01:36:56.649 --> 01:36:59.729 has to drop their fucking narcissism and realize 01:36:59.729 --> 01:37:02.090 that there is better technology ahead of us that 01:37:02.090 --> 01:37:06.729 we can decontaminate after every fire. Yes. Yeah, 01:37:06.789 --> 01:37:09.189 we have to be progressive, right? I mean, I said 01:37:09.189 --> 01:37:12.550 it earlier. finally becoming a research -based 01:37:12.550 --> 01:37:15.310 profession, right? That should apply to everything, 01:37:15.470 --> 01:37:19.029 you know, not just tactics and how you're applying 01:37:19.029 --> 01:37:21.529 water onto a fire and how you're venting and 01:37:21.529 --> 01:37:22.710 when you're venting, right? It shouldn't just 01:37:22.710 --> 01:37:24.630 apply to that. It should apply to everything 01:37:24.630 --> 01:37:29.449 that we put on our bodies, all of our benefits 01:37:29.449 --> 01:37:31.069 that we have, you know, the different testings 01:37:31.069 --> 01:37:33.130 that we have, you know, and pay attention to 01:37:33.130 --> 01:37:35.550 the different risks that we have. We know we're 01:37:35.550 --> 01:37:38.010 going to have risk. It doesn't mean that we should 01:37:38.010 --> 01:37:39.909 ignore them or that we should increase them. 01:37:40.189 --> 01:37:46.010 Our job is to lower that risk. I don't know. 01:37:46.689 --> 01:37:50.970 I'm with you. I'm with you. You just reminded 01:37:50.970 --> 01:37:53.270 me of something. I had my blood drawn on Tuesday 01:37:53.270 --> 01:37:56.449 because I had a company approach me a few months 01:37:56.449 --> 01:38:00.789 ago, and it's a Danish company who have, in the 01:38:00.789 --> 01:38:02.810 process of just proving it on human trials now, 01:38:02.970 --> 01:38:07.250 a probiotic that will remove PFAS from the human 01:38:07.250 --> 01:38:11.409 body. So I just had a PFAS blood test done. And 01:38:11.409 --> 01:38:13.390 then I'm assuming they're going to send me some 01:38:13.390 --> 01:38:15.829 myself and then we'll do another blood test. 01:38:16.170 --> 01:38:18.289 But that's the kind of thing we're talking about. 01:38:18.350 --> 01:38:20.710 We identify this in our gear. We obviously need 01:38:20.710 --> 01:38:23.840 to change that. But then for the first time ever, 01:38:23.899 --> 01:38:25.819 there's an opportunity to start pulling that 01:38:25.819 --> 01:38:28.100 shit out of our body, you know, alongside not 01:38:28.100 --> 01:38:30.100 using Teflon pans and some other things that 01:38:30.100 --> 01:38:32.380 we know we're also getting it from. So there 01:38:32.380 --> 01:38:34.159 are solutions to this, but it's not going to 01:38:34.159 --> 01:38:36.659 work if I keep wearing the same PFAS filled gear 01:38:36.659 --> 01:38:39.140 and I keep putting my leather lid on. So, you 01:38:39.140 --> 01:38:41.840 know, you've got to, you know, it's exciting 01:38:41.840 --> 01:38:44.880 if you accept the progress. But, you know, if 01:38:44.880 --> 01:38:47.000 you do it the same way and then keep playing 01:38:47.000 --> 01:38:49.619 bagpipes when you lose people. You're literally 01:38:49.619 --> 01:38:51.699 part of the problem. The blood is on your hands. 01:38:52.960 --> 01:38:57.500 100%. You know, that's why I talk to my health 01:38:57.500 --> 01:39:00.699 and safety chief very often. We actually had 01:39:00.699 --> 01:39:03.520 him on our podcast, the Firewire podcast that 01:39:03.520 --> 01:39:08.760 our local does. And he's always looking at what's 01:39:08.760 --> 01:39:10.829 next. And that's the best thing, you know, he'll 01:39:10.829 --> 01:39:12.689 call me and he'll be so excited. He left some 01:39:12.689 --> 01:39:14.829 conference or FDIC and he's like, hey, they're 01:39:14.829 --> 01:39:16.510 doing this. I want to bring this testing in. 01:39:16.550 --> 01:39:19.090 I want to do a study with, you know, this university 01:39:19.090 --> 01:39:23.409 or this program. You have to always look to increase, 01:39:23.630 --> 01:39:26.590 you know, what we're doing progress. Progress 01:39:26.590 --> 01:39:29.649 isn't bad. Right. We hate the way things are, 01:39:29.729 --> 01:39:32.729 but we hate we hate to see change. That has to 01:39:32.729 --> 01:39:37.180 change. I don't know. There's so much research 01:39:37.180 --> 01:39:40.220 out there that points to everything that we've 01:39:40.220 --> 01:39:41.920 been talking about, you know, on this subject. 01:39:42.220 --> 01:39:46.079 And like I said, I love the leather helmets. 01:39:46.180 --> 01:39:48.479 I know they're lighter. They look badass. You 01:39:48.479 --> 01:39:51.920 know, I love them. But it's there's no denying 01:39:51.920 --> 01:39:54.539 the fact that it increases your risk to live 01:39:54.539 --> 01:39:59.000 a shorter life. It's just the reality. You know, 01:39:59.000 --> 01:40:01.399 I would hope that no one would be OK with that. 01:40:01.680 --> 01:40:04.380 That's their personal decision. I just. They 01:40:04.380 --> 01:40:09.260 have to make educated decisions. I don't know. 01:40:09.300 --> 01:40:10.859 One day we'll get there. You know, just like 01:40:10.859 --> 01:40:12.840 the D shift, like I told you, you know, we had 01:40:12.840 --> 01:40:14.479 a lot of people that were kind of questioning 01:40:14.479 --> 01:40:16.420 it. And, you know, we see it online in the comments. 01:40:16.500 --> 01:40:21.079 Right. You know, one day they'll see it. Right. 01:40:21.260 --> 01:40:22.939 They'll see the light. That's that's all you 01:40:22.939 --> 01:40:24.880 can hope for. You just keep preaching, preaching 01:40:24.880 --> 01:40:29.739 the word. And one day they'll see it. Well, I 01:40:29.739 --> 01:40:31.439 shared this a little while ago. I mean, it used 01:40:31.439 --> 01:40:33.720 to be exactly that. It was nothing but it'll 01:40:33.720 --> 01:40:36.199 never happen. 4896 is the best. And then you 01:40:36.199 --> 01:40:38.100 see a shift and now people are like, oh, no, 01:40:38.140 --> 01:40:42.060 no, no. 2472 is the best. And here's why. And 01:40:42.060 --> 01:40:44.239 the comment section has changed now. So I'm seeing 01:40:44.239 --> 01:40:48.500 that shift. But the other day, I think it was 01:40:48.500 --> 01:40:51.300 a post I put up and then an AI popped up underneath 01:40:51.300 --> 01:40:54.439 with suggestions of questions that you want to 01:40:54.439 --> 01:40:57.819 find out. And it said, you know, is, you know. 01:40:58.170 --> 01:41:01.710 What is the 2472? I think what it said, dude, 01:41:01.789 --> 01:41:03.649 it came up with everything that we talked about 01:41:03.649 --> 01:41:05.829 for years and years and years from obviously 01:41:05.829 --> 01:41:08.810 the health benefits to the savings for cities 01:41:08.810 --> 01:41:11.949 and counties. So you can literally go to AI now, 01:41:12.069 --> 01:41:15.789 chat GPT and ask about 2472 and the right information 01:41:15.789 --> 01:41:18.609 comes up. So that's what's exciting. It's already 01:41:18.609 --> 01:41:21.789 happening. Like this is going on. Yeah. Yeah. 01:41:21.850 --> 01:41:24.270 Just going back to the decon thing quickly. One, 01:41:24.369 --> 01:41:26.449 the aha moments I have when I went to California. 01:41:27.440 --> 01:41:30.220 was I was a tillerman. So I was driving the back 01:41:30.220 --> 01:41:32.239 of the truck. And in the doghouse, you can't 01:41:32.239 --> 01:41:34.300 have your pack. There's no space. There's just 01:41:34.300 --> 01:41:37.340 a steering wheel and you. And so you climb down 01:41:37.340 --> 01:41:40.300 at the fire, open a compartment, throw your pack 01:41:40.300 --> 01:41:43.300 on. And of all the years prior to that, that 01:41:43.300 --> 01:41:45.340 I, you know, packed up in an engine and then 01:41:45.340 --> 01:41:48.039 come out, you know, sometimes when I was, you 01:41:48.039 --> 01:41:50.920 know, new guy, my radio strap was caught in the, 01:41:50.920 --> 01:41:53.439 you know, the headphones, you know, cable was 01:41:53.439 --> 01:41:56.470 caught in. I tried to get out and hand them a 01:41:56.470 --> 01:41:59.090 seatbelt, whatever it was. And then we all know 01:41:59.090 --> 01:42:02.350 you get a call en route from a medical call. 01:42:02.430 --> 01:42:04.569 Now you're taking your seatbelt off and you are 01:42:04.569 --> 01:42:06.649 doing 70 miles an hour while you're packing up. 01:42:06.890 --> 01:42:10.229 It made me realize how much safer it was to have 01:42:10.229 --> 01:42:12.569 a pack on the outside, not just the decon side, 01:42:12.829 --> 01:42:16.310 but just that way you think about all the sprains 01:42:16.310 --> 01:42:18.050 and the injuries of people that are clumsily 01:42:18.050 --> 01:42:20.369 falling out of an engine because of their gear. 01:42:21.210 --> 01:42:24.149 And it literally takes seconds to throw your 01:42:24.149 --> 01:42:27.090 gear on while you're surveying the scene, while 01:42:27.090 --> 01:42:29.069 your officer is telling you what they want you 01:42:29.069 --> 01:42:31.390 to do. By the time you're all snapped in, you're 01:42:31.390 --> 01:42:34.050 ready to go anyway. So this was another thing 01:42:34.050 --> 01:42:37.109 about the whole clean cab stops grabs thing. 01:42:37.149 --> 01:42:39.289 It's like, well, if you're jumping blindly off 01:42:39.289 --> 01:42:41.590 an engine right through the front door, you're 01:42:41.590 --> 01:42:44.310 a horrible firefighter. You know what I mean? 01:42:44.350 --> 01:42:46.430 You're just another line of duty death waiting 01:42:46.430 --> 01:42:49.899 to happen. So I really like. having the packs 01:42:49.899 --> 01:42:52.399 on the outside, having had to do it as a Tilleman 01:42:52.399 --> 01:42:55.039 on a truck company in California, because you 01:42:55.039 --> 01:42:57.579 realize just how much more mobile, how safer 01:42:57.579 --> 01:42:59.920 and how it's just not a big deal to throw it 01:42:59.920 --> 01:43:02.920 on your shoulders when you get to the fire. Yeah. 01:43:02.939 --> 01:43:05.100 I mean, how long can it take you to just open 01:43:05.100 --> 01:43:07.020 up a compartment and throw a, throw a pack on? 01:43:07.600 --> 01:43:10.920 Exactly. Yeah. It can't be long. And if it is, 01:43:10.939 --> 01:43:17.899 we have a problem. Yeah. Right now, you know, 01:43:19.659 --> 01:43:22.619 I don't see in our future, you know, that happening. 01:43:23.840 --> 01:43:29.279 But, you know, at least we do have clean gear. 01:43:29.399 --> 01:43:31.439 You know, we're looking from the decon side of 01:43:31.439 --> 01:43:33.159 things. You know, at least for us, we do have 01:43:33.159 --> 01:43:34.899 clean gear. We're washing our packs, you know, 01:43:34.899 --> 01:43:37.399 doing the things that we're supposed to do. So 01:43:37.399 --> 01:43:41.619 at least that's a benefit. But that might be 01:43:41.619 --> 01:43:47.239 the one not tradition. but history that might 01:43:47.239 --> 01:43:49.859 not change at least in, in the Florida fire service 01:43:49.859 --> 01:43:52.800 for, for a little bit, but we'll see. It's not 01:43:52.800 --> 01:43:54.199 a deal breaker, but I mean, even if you have 01:43:54.199 --> 01:43:56.699 a wreck, we all know that that packs going through 01:43:56.699 --> 01:43:59.380 your spine, for example, having a real seat, 01:43:59.439 --> 01:44:01.899 you know? So there are a lot of reasons. Yeah. 01:44:01.979 --> 01:44:04.220 There are reasons why too, but again, it's, it's 01:44:04.220 --> 01:44:06.300 not the biggest fight by any means, but it was 01:44:06.300 --> 01:44:07.899 just interesting perspective. Cause I've been, 01:44:07.939 --> 01:44:09.979 that's how I was taught. That's how I was in 01:44:09.979 --> 01:44:11.819 Hialeah. And then I go to California and I'm 01:44:11.819 --> 01:44:13.399 on an engine there and it's still in my seat. 01:44:13.960 --> 01:44:15.479 Then I'm a Tilleman and I'm like, wait a second. 01:44:15.520 --> 01:44:18.359 This is, this is better. This really is. Right. 01:44:18.439 --> 01:44:19.760 All right. Well, just to round up, are there 01:44:19.760 --> 01:44:22.180 any other areas you want to hit before we close? 01:44:22.779 --> 01:44:26.340 No, I think, I think we hit them all. You know, 01:44:26.359 --> 01:44:31.190 I'm excited to see, see when this starts. January 01:44:31.190 --> 01:44:33.869 25th, 2026 can't come soon enough. You know, 01:44:33.909 --> 01:44:35.329 we had a news article come out the other day 01:44:35.329 --> 01:44:36.829 and some of my members were sharing it and it 01:44:36.829 --> 01:44:39.529 was like countdowns, 178 days, you know, on, 01:44:39.569 --> 01:44:42.770 on their posts. That's great to see. You know, 01:44:42.789 --> 01:44:44.630 we do, we did start our own podcast called the 01:44:44.630 --> 01:44:46.649 firewire podcast, but on my past kind of professional 01:44:46.649 --> 01:44:48.449 firefighters, you can find us on all the platforms, 01:44:48.729 --> 01:44:51.810 YouTube, obviously your podcast app, Spotify, 01:44:51.930 --> 01:44:55.010 you know, and just stay tuned. I'm excited to 01:44:55.010 --> 01:44:57.810 see, you know, where this goes to see when it's 01:44:57.810 --> 01:44:59.859 implemented, you know, and kind of. Face the 01:44:59.859 --> 01:45:01.579 challenges that we don't even think are coming 01:45:01.579 --> 01:45:05.380 that that will eventually show up. You know, 01:45:05.380 --> 01:45:08.039 thank you for having me on again. I love everything 01:45:08.039 --> 01:45:09.539 that you're doing. You know, you're you're a 01:45:09.539 --> 01:45:12.479 huge advocate for the fire service in this movement 01:45:12.479 --> 01:45:17.300 is you got your hands all over it. So thank you.