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go to episode 323 of the Behind the Shield podcast

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with Joel Totoro and Wes Barnett. Welcome to

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the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my

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name is James Gearing, and this week it is my

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absolute honor to welcome back onto the show

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former Navy SEAL and the director of the Florida

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Chamber Health Council, John Doolittle. Now,

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in this second conversation, we discuss a host

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of topics, from responding to hurricanes with

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the Florida State Guard Special Missions Group,

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the mental health crisis, Firefighter Work Week,

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the free access first responders in Florida and

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other states have to ETMS, the EEG -guided transcranial

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magnetic stimulation, and so much more. Now,

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before we get to this incredible conversation,

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as I say every week, please just take a moment,

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go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe

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to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single five -star rating truly does elevate

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this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find. And this is a free library of

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well over 1 ,100 episodes now. So all I ask in

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return is that you help share these incredible

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men and women's stories so I can get them to

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every single person on planet Earth who needs

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to hear them. So with that being said, I welcome

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back onto the show... John Dolittle. Enjoy. Well,

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John, I want to start by saying this time, welcome

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to my home and welcome to the Behind the Shield

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podcast for the second time. Yeah, James, thanks,

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man. It's so good to be here. And thank you for

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opening your home, letting me hang out with Ember,

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the German Shepherd sleeping over in the corner

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now. And yeah, I love it. Love your home. And

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it's good to finally meet you in person. We've

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been talking about it for over three years, I

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think. Now, you're based in the Tampa area. I

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think a good icebreaker would be between the

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last time we spoke and now, there have been several

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hurricanes that have hit your area. We've been

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very lucky. I'm touching wood now. In my area,

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we really didn't have a huge amount, but the

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West Coast got battered. So talk to me about

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the role you held in the Florida State Guard,

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and then let's talk about those responses as

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a kind of opener. okay yeah it's uh well about

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a year and a half ago uh i went to an assessment

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and selection for the florida state guard they

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have a group called the special mission unit

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that um is primarily made up of former special

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operations guys um There's about, I think we're

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at about 55 people now. And so you have the FSG,

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the regular Florida State Guard, and then you

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have the special missions side. And, yeah, I

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don't know. When I was growing up, my dad was

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a ski patrol. He did a bunch of stuff. He was

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a retired Air Force guy, worked for a phone company,

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and he was a volunteer ski patrol. Did that for

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over 30 years in Lake Tahoe. And if you ask him

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today what of all the, you know, quote, profession,

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you know, type things he did, what is he most

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proud of, and he'll tell you without batting

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an eye what he did in the ski patrol, just helping

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people. And, you know, that was something I wanted

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in my life. So I went to the selection process,

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went through that whole thing, and I'm on the

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team. And, yeah, we had eight, nine months ago.

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We had Hurricane Helene, highest storm surge

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in over 100 years in this part of Florida. And

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then right on the tail end of Helene, we had

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Hurricane Milton. So, yeah, being part of the

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state guard for that's been good. We have an

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emergency response capability, but we also have

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the ability to do just about whatever the governor

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needs us to do to support the state. But I'd

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say the majority of what we do is kind of emergency

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response. Why is it that those roles are filled

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with the Special Operations community, and what

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is it that you guys bring specifically to that

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role? Well, I think what's unique about the SOCOM

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community, Special Operations Command community,

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is with a small group of guys you can really

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get a lot. of good stuff done. And when you take

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people who lived, lived and worked in that world

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for, for a career, and now they're doing other

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things on the outside, because it's essentially

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a volunteer, the FSGs, you know, it's, there's,

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there's a little stipend, a little bit of pay,

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but it's basically a volunteer gig. And when

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you're, when you're tied in with other guys that

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worked, in small teams overseas doing a bunch

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of different stuff, there's really nothing that

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you can't get done. And, yeah, it's just a natural

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fallout from being a team guy and rolling into

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being a different kind of team guy. I think I'm

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the most junior guy on the force. Oh, really?

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I'm a frock master sergeant, yeah. That's interesting,

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though, because that parallels what I've heard.

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so often in the transition stories is especially

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in police and fire we i don't know why this is

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the case but a lot of my profession they're like

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well all i know is fire so i'll go and teach

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at a fire academy or the cops will go and become

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security somewhere but that's not all we are

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you know we've worked in high stress situations

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we work well in teams we're problem solvers you

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know so see what you're talking about obviously

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you're not hunting bin laden or whatever else

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was going on you know in the middle east but

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now you're taking that same skill set and applying

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in a different way and i think that's such an

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important takeaway for transition is it doesn't

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have to be apples to apples it's a broader scope

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but where i see a lot of healing and a lot of

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value is when people find a way to still use

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that same skill set in a way to make the world

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a little bit better. And that's exactly, it sounds

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like exactly what you guys are doing. Yeah, when

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a hurricane hits, man, people need all kinds

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of help. And, you know, we were talking about

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Sebastian Younger's book over lunch, Tribe. And

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I think when you serve, whether we're talking

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first responders or we're talking military, or

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whatever, you're with a lot of like -minded type

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guys, usually have the same kind of worldview,

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and it's kind of a brotherhood, your group, your

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tribe, right? And when you leave that, it's very

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hard to find that on the outside. This is just

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one more way to do that. So with those hurricanes

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specifically, What were stories of heroism that

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you heard? And then what were the kind of lesson

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learned takeaways of maybe being better prepared

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or the residents being better prepared in the

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future? Well, I think law enforcement, firefighters,

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the sheriff's department, all the existing first

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responders across that part of the state. I mean,

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the stories of hero is, you know, when you have

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a massive surge like that and you have a lot

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of people breaking out through their roofs or

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stuck on their second or third story homes and

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you have these law enforcement officers and firefighters

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and the state guard guys running around in boats

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and large vehicles and just helping people. They

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might not be stories of heroism, but they're

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just stories of helping people, helping the community,

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helping the county, the city, the districts and

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stuff. I think... Anyway, you'll have to edit

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that part. No, no, no. Not at all, not at all.

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I forgot what the second question was. No, but

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the second problem is I threw two questions at

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you simultaneously, which I shouldn't do. So

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the other part was takeaways. Are there any lessons

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learned as far as preparation? Because it's not

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blaming at all, but obviously after an incident,

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there's always value in, okay, if we could do

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this again, what would we do differently? Well,

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I think one of the takeaways for me personally

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was all these homes that were built, in our state

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before uh 1970 before the you know when you look

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at these homes that have built in the 50s and

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60s and they're on a concrete slab and they're

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above the high water mark but they're not necessarily

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above the hundred hundred year flood mark so

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they're inside a flood zone i never really thought

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of that as being a major issue when we are looking

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for places to live in florida but having responded

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to these people and worked in those houses now

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where And it's not just saltwater that comes

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in. You have sewage overflow and all the drama

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that comes with that. And you walk into a place

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after the search has gone down and the water's

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four, five, six feet up the drywall, the entire

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home is ruined. And so I will never buy another

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house in Florida that's not up to code. Up to

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code meaning especially for the elevation piece.

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Because, you know, you run from the flood and

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you hide from the wind, right? So the storm surge

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is like major drama, man. It's all these homes

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in Shore Acres. Half the homes in Shore Acres

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still haven't been rebuilt. And it's nine months

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after Helene. That was one takeaway. Another

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takeaway that I saw in my local community and

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anybody you talk to that lives in Clearwater,

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St. Pete, all the way down to Sarasota where

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I hit after Milton, you had fallen trees everywhere.

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And we've been through a bunch of hurricanes.

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I've never seen so many trees down as Milton.

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I mean, that's the one where the roof got torn

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off, the trop in downtown St. Pete and all that.

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But seeing all the neighbors come out, and I

00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:53.080
saw this right where I live. I mean, three of

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the neighbors I've never even spoken with. And

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after Milton, I know them all. We're all tight

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now because we're sharing chainsaws and we're

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going around the neighborhood helping each other

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out. That was really cool to see. You know, it's

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unfortunate sometimes it takes a disaster to

00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:12.820
see the best in people. But that absolutely took

00:13:12.820 --> 00:13:16.580
place during that back -to -back hurricane. I

00:13:16.580 --> 00:13:18.179
literally had a conversation with someone the

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other day, and we were talking about that very

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thing. There's always that comment, like, you

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know, we seem to come together after a 9 -11.

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And do we have to wait for a 9 -11? So with this

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kind of unique lens that you have through your

00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:37.740
military career and some of the altruistic things

00:13:37.740 --> 00:13:40.809
you're doing outside, If you were king for a

00:13:40.809 --> 00:13:45.870
day, how do we bring back that community so we're

00:13:45.870 --> 00:13:48.669
not waiting for a worst -case scenario to actually

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get neighborhoods back together again? If I were

00:13:53.370 --> 00:14:02.190
king for a day, I would mandate that every 18,

00:14:02.330 --> 00:14:06.769
19, 20 -year -old kid would have to do a year

00:14:06.769 --> 00:14:11.090
of service. And it could be community service,

00:14:11.389 --> 00:14:14.110
you know, city level, district, county level,

00:14:14.429 --> 00:14:17.029
state level, federal level. To me, it wouldn't

00:14:17.029 --> 00:14:19.590
matter. But you'd have to do some kind of service

00:14:19.590 --> 00:14:22.350
because I firmly believe, and this is after spending

00:14:22.350 --> 00:14:25.590
a fair amount of time in Israel, but, you know,

00:14:25.590 --> 00:14:29.710
you don't become an adult in Israel without having

00:14:29.710 --> 00:14:33.549
served your at least community. But you don't

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necessarily have to get in the military. Service

00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:41.120
in some capacity, I think, is really important.

00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:45.179
And I don't think we have enough of that. And

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I would consider first respond being in first

00:14:47.139 --> 00:14:50.120
responder world. I would consider being in the

00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:54.919
military, you know, houses for habitat for humanity,

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all that kind of stuff. If we mandated that,

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I think our nation would be in a much different

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place. It's interesting. Sebastian Junger said

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the same thing in one of the interviews. I remember

00:15:05.629 --> 00:15:08.210
clearly he was like, the problem is with military

00:15:08.210 --> 00:15:11.370
service is not everyone is supposed to be a military

00:15:11.370 --> 00:15:13.309
member. And I agree with him. I think that's

00:15:13.309 --> 00:15:16.669
right. Whether you kind of disagree with the

00:15:16.669 --> 00:15:18.309
principle or whether maybe you're just not cut

00:15:18.309 --> 00:15:21.809
from that cloth, your ability to plant trees

00:15:21.809 --> 00:15:24.929
for a year or be an adjunct teacher or whatever

00:15:24.929 --> 00:15:29.080
it is. I think understanding that this is a shared

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experience as a nation, I think it's so powerful,

00:15:32.379 --> 00:15:35.299
and I think there is a disconnect. At least from

00:15:35.299 --> 00:15:40.519
where I'm sitting, this last at least 20 years,

00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:43.679
that message of I'm the most important person

00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:45.480
in the world has been reinforced, whether it's

00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:47.279
in the business world, whether it's in the sporting

00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:50.000
world. We were talking before we hit record about

00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:52.519
our youth sports. If your child doesn't win the

00:15:52.519 --> 00:15:54.860
national championships, then they're worthless.

00:15:56.110 --> 00:15:58.690
So I think that would be invaluable to make people

00:15:58.690 --> 00:16:01.429
realize that it's we. Like I always said, there's

00:16:01.429 --> 00:16:05.309
no I in USA, but there is an us. I like that.

00:16:06.909 --> 00:16:10.309
Yeah, I think it would really improve things.

00:16:10.409 --> 00:16:14.009
When you're all in it for yourself and you don't

00:16:14.009 --> 00:16:18.909
see the bigger picture, you miss out on a lot.

00:16:19.769 --> 00:16:22.690
And we're all missing out from a lot of the stuff

00:16:22.690 --> 00:16:24.490
that our parents and our grandparents grew up

00:16:24.490 --> 00:16:28.090
with. And now with all the smart devices and

00:16:28.090 --> 00:16:29.690
all this kind of stuff, the kids are missing

00:16:29.690 --> 00:16:33.370
on a lot of that. Absolutely. Well, you were

00:16:33.370 --> 00:16:35.450
talking, I've forgotten the name of it now, but

00:16:35.450 --> 00:16:38.929
the program trying to address childhood obesity.

00:16:39.110 --> 00:16:40.490
So let's talk about that for a moment and the

00:16:40.490 --> 00:16:42.529
success that they've seen in the areas that they're

00:16:42.529 --> 00:16:47.279
working. Yeah, a little while ago I was exposed

00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:52.019
to this program in the Panhandle in Florida called

00:16:52.019 --> 00:16:55.080
the Champions Program. And they've done some

00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:57.159
really cool stuff. They've been around for like

00:16:57.159 --> 00:17:00.600
20 years. And there's people that have been through

00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:04.299
the program as parents whose kids are now going

00:17:04.299 --> 00:17:07.000
through the program. And I don't know a whole

00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:11.900
lot about it, but what I've learned is that they

00:17:11.900 --> 00:17:14.470
basically go into the... public school system

00:17:14.470 --> 00:17:19.329
and they augment the PE classes, the physical

00:17:19.329 --> 00:17:23.210
education classes. And it's like less emphasis

00:17:23.210 --> 00:17:28.349
on sports and how to play a sport and the rules

00:17:28.349 --> 00:17:32.589
associated with the sport and more emphasis on

00:17:32.589 --> 00:17:37.829
moving and exercise and healthy lifestyle. And

00:17:37.829 --> 00:17:41.069
when you're doing aerobic activity, understanding

00:17:41.069 --> 00:17:45.160
what that's doing for your brain. And much more

00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:51.359
of a focus on that. And as a result, the data

00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:53.460
that's come out of the six counties that it's

00:17:53.460 --> 00:17:57.200
been in for a while now is phenomenal compared

00:17:57.200 --> 00:17:59.740
to the rest of the state and the rest of the

00:17:59.740 --> 00:18:04.940
nation. Yeah, something like that being expanded

00:18:04.940 --> 00:18:09.180
and scaled across America would be pretty incredible.

00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:14.170
But yeah, champions. uh program out of panhandle

00:18:14.170 --> 00:18:17.190
in florida pretty pretty amazing i had a guy

00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:19.509
on the show a while ago now doug orchard who

00:18:19.509 --> 00:18:23.069
made a documentary called the motivation factor

00:18:23.069 --> 00:18:26.890
and it was a school in i think it was central

00:18:26.890 --> 00:18:31.150
california and the coach had basically kind of

00:18:31.150 --> 00:18:34.529
studied a russian model and brought it over to

00:18:34.529 --> 00:18:37.769
his high school last year at high school um and

00:18:37.769 --> 00:18:41.190
it was a kind of a version of the belt system

00:18:41.190 --> 00:18:43.509
in martial arts but it was shorts different colored

00:18:43.509 --> 00:18:46.089
shorts okay and the kids worked as a group and

00:18:46.089 --> 00:18:48.190
i'm sure they did an initial testing to put you

00:18:48.190 --> 00:18:51.769
know kind of similar ability kids together but

00:18:51.769 --> 00:18:55.150
they worked as a team and you're doing pt every

00:18:55.150 --> 00:18:56.849
single day and the goal is you know when you

00:18:56.849 --> 00:18:59.170
get to a benchmark you you test for that benchmark

00:18:59.170 --> 00:19:02.390
and then you get a different color pair of shorts

00:19:02.390 --> 00:19:06.789
love it and the the video footage of these kids

00:19:07.309 --> 00:19:09.390
I'm assuming they were probably the top -tier

00:19:09.390 --> 00:19:11.910
kids. Any one of them could have been a men's

00:19:11.910 --> 00:19:15.049
health cover model. Really? And the whole philosophy

00:19:15.049 --> 00:19:18.069
was, firstly, the grades improved. The bullying

00:19:18.069 --> 00:19:21.930
basically went away. And even in the sports,

00:19:22.210 --> 00:19:25.289
whatever sport these kids wanted to do, they

00:19:25.289 --> 00:19:27.210
were already conditioned. So all they had to

00:19:27.210 --> 00:19:29.369
worry about was the skill training. They didn't

00:19:29.369 --> 00:19:30.730
have to do conditioning because these kids were

00:19:30.730 --> 00:19:34.710
already fit and strong. The top -tier one, there

00:19:34.710 --> 00:19:37.599
was a partner carry. And I think it was something

00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:40.859
crazy, like three miles. It was seven times up

00:19:40.859 --> 00:19:43.400
and down a pegboard. They had all the parallel

00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:46.259
bars that, you know, meters and meters of them.

00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:49.019
And it was all calisthenics. It wasn't even using

00:19:49.019 --> 00:19:52.500
weights. But, you know, it was militant in a

00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:55.240
positive way, like a communal way. But yeah,

00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:57.339
so these kids are all sharing YouTube videos.

00:19:57.660 --> 00:20:01.000
The Russian approach. Yeah. So and then you compare

00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:03.079
that to exactly what you know, the ethos was

00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:05.980
you're just talking about. What we have in schools

00:20:05.980 --> 00:20:08.680
now, if there's even any, you know, you have

00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:10.339
the PE program, if it's even there, but then

00:20:10.339 --> 00:20:12.700
the sports, it's the opposite. It's the, you

00:20:12.700 --> 00:20:14.400
know, if you're not first, you're last, you know,

00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:16.460
participation trophies and all this kind of conversation.

00:20:16.539 --> 00:20:19.240
So less emphasis on that piece. On moving. Yes.

00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:21.220
Simply moving as a group because no one's winning

00:20:21.220 --> 00:20:24.200
that. You know, you're elevating as a group.

00:20:24.740 --> 00:20:27.000
But if everyone's that top tier shorts, then

00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:29.299
brilliant. But the point with that is even if

00:20:29.299 --> 00:20:32.269
you're the, you know, the clarinet player. otherwise

00:20:32.269 --> 00:20:34.609
has no interest in sport, you're still going

00:20:34.609 --> 00:20:36.630
to be one of the fittest kids in the country

00:20:36.630 --> 00:20:39.569
compared to the other system. Well, the thing

00:20:39.569 --> 00:20:42.109
that is really cool about this program is you're

00:20:42.109 --> 00:20:48.829
measured and graded on effort. So if you're that

00:20:48.829 --> 00:20:54.109
clarinet player and your heart rate gets up to

00:20:54.109 --> 00:20:57.849
175, 180 on whatever it is that you're doing,

00:20:59.660 --> 00:21:03.140
yet you come in near last, you're still going

00:21:03.140 --> 00:21:05.759
to get an A because it's all about the effort.

00:21:05.900 --> 00:21:08.759
Yeah, exactly. You may be the worst runner in

00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:13.539
the class, but they're measuring all kinds of

00:21:13.539 --> 00:21:17.119
outcome measures. And it's not just the speed

00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:19.960
that they run, but how hard are you working,

00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:23.039
which equates to how hard are you trying. And

00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:26.680
when a kid tries really hard and they don't do

00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:30.420
well and they get a bad grade, de -incentivize

00:21:30.420 --> 00:21:33.740
that kid to do anything with sports and athletics

00:21:33.740 --> 00:21:37.019
or just functional movement and taking care of

00:21:37.019 --> 00:21:40.000
themselves ever again. And when that happens

00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.599
over and over and over, I mean, we're building

00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:45.339
it into those kids. Whereas in this program,

00:21:45.619 --> 00:21:50.240
that clarinet player just got an A plus because

00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:54.579
her heart rate was at 185 for 15 minutes. boom,

00:21:54.700 --> 00:21:57.720
she's on cloud nine and she's going to embrace

00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:02.099
that type of approach to her lifestyle. You know,

00:22:02.099 --> 00:22:04.460
she's going to embrace it going forward. And,

00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:07.680
um, and I firmly believe that, that, that physical

00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:11.400
resilience drives emotional resilience. And when

00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:13.359
you look at what's going on with our kids in

00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:16.559
the state of Florida, 40 % of the kids have mental

00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:19.799
health issues. And the majority of that 40 %

00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:27.609
that are unmet needs. So I had one of the people

00:22:27.609 --> 00:22:31.930
that runs NAMI Florida, National Alliance for

00:22:31.930 --> 00:22:36.190
Mental Illness here in Florida, and she said

00:22:36.190 --> 00:22:43.589
there's not enough behavioral health providers

00:22:43.589 --> 00:22:48.990
in all of America to meet the behavioral health

00:22:48.990 --> 00:22:52.900
needs just in the state of Florida. There's not

00:22:52.900 --> 00:22:55.920
enough nationwide to deal with what we're dealing

00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:58.700
with for behavioral health here in the state

00:22:58.700 --> 00:23:02.160
of Florida. So if that's the case, something

00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:05.420
has to change. We've got to do some stuff differently.

00:23:05.779 --> 00:23:09.980
And I think what this program is doing may be

00:23:09.980 --> 00:23:13.859
a way to do that because I don't think it would

00:23:13.859 --> 00:23:17.299
be that hard to fold in some behavioral health,

00:23:17.420 --> 00:23:22.119
mental wellness. self -confidence type stuff.

00:23:22.180 --> 00:23:24.700
I mean, all that stuff's going to improve when

00:23:24.700 --> 00:23:26.680
you start doing these things with these kids.

00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:30.000
And you got me on a little bit of a soapbox because

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:36.400
when I was at SOCOM, my last job there, we were

00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:38.640
dealing with a lot of behavioral health challenges

00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:41.759
for the families, the dependents, the members,

00:23:42.059 --> 00:23:46.519
the military members. It's frustrating because

00:23:46.519 --> 00:23:50.400
there's only so much you can do once they are

00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:54.859
an adult and they're set in their ways. But if

00:23:54.859 --> 00:23:58.559
you can get to them when they're kids, before

00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:02.480
they completely set themselves up for a life

00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:06.559
of misery, if you can get to them early, you

00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:12.200
can really make an impact. And so, yeah, I think

00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:14.910
that's... That's a direction we should try and

00:24:14.910 --> 00:24:17.369
go. Yeah. Well, it's an interesting statistic.

00:24:17.549 --> 00:24:19.970
I'm going to remember that. So if there is a

00:24:19.970 --> 00:24:23.670
greater need in the state of Florida for counselors

00:24:23.670 --> 00:24:26.849
than we can provide in the entire 50 states,

00:24:27.049 --> 00:24:33.289
that does highlight that there are groups within

00:24:33.289 --> 00:24:37.079
that state. that absolutely need mental health

00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:40.059
counseling specifically but then there's these

00:24:40.059 --> 00:24:43.420
kind of you know larger circles where i think

00:24:43.420 --> 00:24:45.720
other holistic things will make a huge dent in

00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:48.500
that and maybe that child doesn't need mental

00:24:48.500 --> 00:24:51.119
health professionals specifically and it's the

00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:53.640
same as we were talking and most people are not

00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:55.000
going to be surprised that i start talking about

00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:58.579
24 72 but you know in the fire service you better

00:24:58.579 --> 00:25:01.940
go there because if you don't i am The focus

00:25:01.940 --> 00:25:03.920
is, well, we need counselors and peer support

00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:05.299
and all this stuff. And it's like, well, yeah,

00:25:05.339 --> 00:25:09.119
but sleep is the first pillar. If you are not

00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:12.839
sleeping, you can't counsel or EMDR your way

00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:14.960
out of it. That's not the case. So going back

00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:19.460
to these children, now you put in PE. Now you

00:25:19.460 --> 00:25:22.420
serve real food in schools and you remove the

00:25:22.420 --> 00:25:24.720
soda machines and stop the Cisco trucks from

00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:27.859
showing up anymore. And then now these kids have

00:25:27.859 --> 00:25:30.240
got more energy. They're burning off calories.

00:25:30.420 --> 00:25:31.880
They're having that sense of community. They're

00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:33.779
enjoying sports because they're not told they

00:25:33.779 --> 00:25:36.900
have to win or they're a piece of shit. How many

00:25:36.900 --> 00:25:39.220
of that demand in the state of Florida now goes

00:25:39.220 --> 00:25:42.680
down? And now you start getting a smaller number

00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:45.700
than maybe the southeast would be enough to cover

00:25:45.700 --> 00:25:48.559
the kids in Florida. And then you start addressing

00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:51.319
the issues with social media. So I think it's

00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:53.700
an interesting conversation, and people keep

00:25:53.700 --> 00:25:55.579
talking about that. Oh, we need more counselors,

00:25:55.660 --> 00:25:58.970
and we do. But you're also missing the point,

00:25:59.069 --> 00:26:01.710
people are, and we're talking about this, if

00:26:01.710 --> 00:26:03.950
you're not addressing the exercise, nutrition,

00:26:04.349 --> 00:26:07.029
the ability to simply put a child on a Headspace

00:26:07.029 --> 00:26:11.650
app, you know, meditation at home, going out

00:26:11.650 --> 00:26:13.609
of their house and playing without taking a cell

00:26:13.609 --> 00:26:16.369
phone with them, all these things, there's no

00:26:16.369 --> 00:26:18.630
question in my mind that a large percentage of

00:26:18.630 --> 00:26:21.089
those kids that are struggling on paper will

00:26:21.089 --> 00:26:24.349
now stop. And Johan Hari has a great quote, the

00:26:24.349 --> 00:26:27.529
opposite of addiction isn't sobriety. It's connection.

00:26:28.190 --> 00:26:31.410
Oh, yeah. So, you know, you get these kids off

00:26:31.410 --> 00:26:34.329
their devices, eating well, sleeping well, and

00:26:34.329 --> 00:26:36.829
forging friendships in and outside of school.

00:26:37.450 --> 00:26:40.769
How much of that massive mental health, 40%,

00:26:40.769 --> 00:26:43.650
is going to shrink down to a manageable amount

00:26:43.650 --> 00:26:46.190
of those children that still then need actual

00:26:46.190 --> 00:26:48.890
counseling? Yeah, the social connectedness, that's

00:26:48.890 --> 00:26:51.410
the most important thing that we're collectively

00:26:51.410 --> 00:26:54.759
after. That Harvard study was like 80 years,

00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:58.079
longest study in all of academia in America.

00:26:58.359 --> 00:27:02.759
And the number one thing for longevity, et cetera,

00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:06.660
et cetera, was social connectedness. The value

00:27:06.660 --> 00:27:12.940
of deep relationships. And building that in our

00:27:12.940 --> 00:27:16.779
kids early on, which is the exact opposite of

00:27:16.779 --> 00:27:18.980
what's happening with social media and smartphones

00:27:18.980 --> 00:27:23.799
and all this crap. yep absolutely yeah well staying

00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:26.279
on the health model the last time we spoke you're

00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:30.180
working for katsu So talk to me about that product.

00:27:30.220 --> 00:27:32.779
One of my friends, Jesse Salas, who's one of

00:27:32.779 --> 00:27:35.539
the right -hand man of the foundation training

00:27:35.539 --> 00:27:38.660
world, he's been using that in so many really

00:27:38.660 --> 00:27:41.579
interesting ways. So talk to me about that and

00:27:41.579 --> 00:27:43.980
then kind of what made you transition into the

00:27:43.980 --> 00:27:45.259
role that you're doing now. Jesse's brought it

00:27:45.259 --> 00:27:47.319
into mixed martial arts. He's brought it into

00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:51.539
UFC, big wave surfing. That guy is all. over

00:27:51.539 --> 00:27:54.740
the place he and chris morgan who's the chief

00:27:54.740 --> 00:27:57.220
performance officer there but yeah i was with

00:27:57.220 --> 00:28:01.220
katsu for eight years uh absolutely love the

00:28:01.220 --> 00:28:03.640
product love the company i use it every single

00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:09.160
day um they are are doing a lot of phenomenal

00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:14.339
work for wounded warriors And for TBI, it's not

00:28:14.339 --> 00:28:18.039
just an orthopedic rehab device. And for listeners

00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:20.599
that have no idea what we're talking about, think

00:28:20.599 --> 00:28:26.359
of them as therapeutic air bands, elastic air

00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:29.480
bands that you wear high on your arms or high

00:28:29.480 --> 00:28:33.119
on your legs. And the computer will pressurize

00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:36.059
with pneumatic, with air pressure for 30 seconds.

00:28:36.730 --> 00:28:38.789
and then release it for five. And then the next

00:28:38.789 --> 00:28:41.710
pressure will be a little bit more, like 10 millimeters

00:28:41.710 --> 00:28:44.609
mercury, higher in pressure. And it does that

00:28:44.609 --> 00:28:47.710
repeatedly, automatically in the background while

00:28:47.710 --> 00:28:52.710
you do some functional movement. And great for

00:28:52.710 --> 00:28:57.039
orthopedic rehab. Or great for guys like you

00:28:57.039 --> 00:28:59.799
and me. I'm getting ready to turn 56. I'm all

00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:02.720
beat up. I've had 13 orthopedic surgeries. I

00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:06.200
can't go heavy anymore. But it's a way to get

00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:09.900
good metabolic outcomes with doing little to

00:29:09.900 --> 00:29:12.980
no weight during functional movement. So love

00:29:12.980 --> 00:29:18.299
it. Did it for eight years. I'm very appreciative

00:29:18.299 --> 00:29:22.200
of all the time I had with Katsu. The things

00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:27.220
they have coming are really exciting. But I did

00:29:27.220 --> 00:29:33.559
a public speaking gig out in the Disney world

00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:36.599
for the Florida Chamber of Commerce two years

00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:41.579
ago, like a year and a half ago. And one of the

00:29:41.579 --> 00:29:44.230
things I talked about... During that leadership

00:29:44.230 --> 00:29:46.930
conference, it was right after Michael Phelps

00:29:46.930 --> 00:29:51.250
spoke. He spoke the day before. And he talked

00:29:51.250 --> 00:29:56.109
about his mental health journey. First of all,

00:29:56.130 --> 00:29:59.650
I had no idea that Michael Phelps had had this

00:29:59.650 --> 00:30:03.390
big of a challenge. He had three major, major

00:30:03.390 --> 00:30:07.109
suicide ideations. Like he really, really had

00:30:07.109 --> 00:30:09.809
thought through and planned for killing himself.

00:30:12.740 --> 00:30:17.980
Thankfully, he seeked treatment on his own with

00:30:17.980 --> 00:30:20.640
some help with some close friends. And anyway,

00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:25.240
he told that story. And his life goal now is

00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:27.160
his foundation, the Michael Phelps Foundation,

00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:29.819
help people with behavioral health and mental

00:30:29.819 --> 00:30:33.279
wellness and mental health and all that. But

00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:35.859
it was a phenomenal talk. And so after hearing

00:30:35.859 --> 00:30:41.000
him speak, I tweaked my talk because I wanted

00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:43.920
to. be sure and share the story of a good friend

00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:46.079
of mine that I went to the Air Force Academy

00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:48.920
with. And I honestly can't remember if we talked

00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:50.819
about this last time we were on. I'll tell it

00:30:50.819 --> 00:30:56.559
again just in case. Please. And we both graduated

00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:58.819
from Air Force Academy. We both did an inter

00:30:58.819 --> 00:31:02.759
-service transfer into the Navy. We both went

00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:04.940
into the SEAL teams. We were both at SEAL Team

00:31:04.940 --> 00:31:10.420
2. We both became commanding officers. I was

00:31:10.420 --> 00:31:14.680
doing my second CO tour in Germany, and he was

00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:18.140
the commanding officer of SEAL Team 4 down in

00:31:18.140 --> 00:31:21.160
Afghanistan. And we would talk just like this,

00:31:21.220 --> 00:31:23.759
face -to -face, but over a video thing once a

00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:26.119
week because I had guys working for him. He had

00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:28.619
guys working for me. We would swap guys out,

00:31:28.700 --> 00:31:30.500
get guys combat experience and all that kind

00:31:30.500 --> 00:31:36.680
of stuff. And one day they had a tragedy and

00:31:36.680 --> 00:31:42.750
lost one of their guys. So the next week, we

00:31:42.750 --> 00:31:47.269
missed our call for obvious reasons. And then

00:31:47.269 --> 00:31:48.930
the next time I saw him, he didn't look good.

00:31:49.549 --> 00:31:52.250
And I asked him, are you sleeping? Are you taking

00:31:52.250 --> 00:31:56.630
care of yourself? Not really. He was kind of

00:31:56.630 --> 00:32:00.869
blaming himself for a lot of what happened. And

00:32:00.869 --> 00:32:03.549
then a few weeks later, they had another tragedy

00:32:03.549 --> 00:32:09.849
and lost two more guys. And the next time I looked

00:32:09.849 --> 00:32:12.869
at Joe, he just looked like complete, you know,

00:32:12.890 --> 00:32:17.470
he did not look good. And then I'll never forget

00:32:17.470 --> 00:32:21.109
Saturday morning. I'm bringing December 22nd,

00:32:21.109 --> 00:32:24.170
2012. I'm bringing Sean, our oldest, to a birthday

00:32:24.170 --> 00:32:27.109
party in Germany. And I get a phone call and

00:32:27.109 --> 00:32:31.230
I see the area code 757, Virginia Beach. So it's

00:32:31.230 --> 00:32:34.309
Saturday morning. In the middle of the night

00:32:34.309 --> 00:32:37.730
in Virginia, you know it's not good. I pick up

00:32:37.730 --> 00:32:40.410
the phone. It's a friend of mine. And I could

00:32:40.410 --> 00:32:42.490
just tell right away, you know, John, I got some

00:32:42.490 --> 00:32:46.970
really bad news. And I said, who was it? And

00:32:46.970 --> 00:32:52.329
he said it was Job. Job Price. And I remember

00:32:52.329 --> 00:33:00.569
thinking, okay, SEAL, Afghanistan, combat operations.

00:33:03.079 --> 00:33:06.680
You know, it's dangerous. We've all been to a

00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:09.640
lot of memorial ceremonies. But it was the next

00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:13.000
thing the guy said, my buddy, that took the wind

00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:15.440
out of my sails. He said, hey, what you need

00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:18.200
to know, John, is that it appears that Job died

00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:21.920
by a self -inflicted gunshot wound to the head.

00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:27.319
It appears to be suicide. And I just remember

00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:32.359
being like, holy crap, how can this? How can

00:33:32.359 --> 00:33:35.200
this be? This guy's a commanding officer, pinnacle

00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:38.680
of his career as an officer in the teams, leading

00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:44.160
troops in combat. We all thought a very, very

00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:49.980
resilient guy. It was his 14th deployment. But

00:33:49.980 --> 00:33:52.299
it hit me like a ton of rocks that night when

00:33:52.299 --> 00:33:55.359
I was talking to Katie about it. And it was that

00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:57.799
realization that no matter how tough you are,

00:33:57.859 --> 00:33:59.619
no matter how resilient you are, no matter how

00:33:59.619 --> 00:34:02.940
tough you think your buddy, everybody's got a

00:34:02.940 --> 00:34:07.920
breaking point. A hundred percent. And Job is

00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:12.460
the perfect example of that. You know, the permanent

00:34:12.460 --> 00:34:16.480
decision to a temporary problem. Everybody's

00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:18.639
got breaking point. And it totally changed kind

00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:23.800
of my worldview on a lot of things after. From

00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:29.699
that point on, that was in 2012. Jump forward

00:34:29.699 --> 00:34:36.860
to 2014, Admiral McRaven asked me, he knew I

00:34:36.860 --> 00:34:40.199
was very tight with Job. He asked if I would

00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:43.340
take on the Preservation of the Force and Family,

00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:47.719
the PODIF program at SOCOM, to help eliminate

00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:52.380
that from happening again. And I said, yeah.

00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:56.519
So anyway, full circle. We'll come back to Poetiff.

00:34:56.519 --> 00:35:01.579
But I changed my talk to insert that piece with

00:35:01.579 --> 00:35:06.840
Job after hearing Michael Phelps. And a few months

00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:09.460
after that, the chamber reached out to me and

00:35:09.460 --> 00:35:12.280
said, hey, we have a health council. This is

00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:15.739
the Florida Chamber of Commerce in Tallahassee,

00:35:15.739 --> 00:35:20.280
so in the state capital. He said, hey, would

00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:24.880
you consider interviewing for the job of, you

00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:26.960
know, director of health council? And I'm like,

00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:31.460
well, I have zero experience as a provider. I'm

00:35:31.460 --> 00:35:34.260
not a provider. I'm not, you know, whatever.

00:35:35.139 --> 00:35:37.800
And he said, that's okay. We still want to hear

00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:41.380
what you, how you would approach the problem

00:35:41.380 --> 00:35:45.159
of a lot of things in Florida, but primarily

00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:49.630
the behavioral health crisis. take kids that

00:35:49.630 --> 00:35:51.650
we were just talking about as an example. We

00:35:51.650 --> 00:35:53.530
just want to hear how you would approach it.

00:35:54.710 --> 00:35:59.269
And I love Katsu, man. I was all in on that for

00:35:59.269 --> 00:36:02.150
a long time. And I went home and I talked with

00:36:02.150 --> 00:36:05.369
Katie and I said, hey, I feel like I'm doing

00:36:05.369 --> 00:36:08.650
a lot of good at Katsu, but I feel like I could

00:36:08.650 --> 00:36:12.250
do even more good with this. And she said, well,

00:36:12.269 --> 00:36:16.489
there's your answer. So when Tallahassee interviewed,

00:36:16.869 --> 00:36:21.429
talked for a long time, you know, I know there's

00:36:21.429 --> 00:36:25.489
a lot of rules in the HR world, in the private

00:36:25.489 --> 00:36:28.489
sector, that just because we did something in

00:36:28.489 --> 00:36:31.190
the military and it was very effective, it doesn't

00:36:31.190 --> 00:36:33.489
necessarily mean you can do it in the private

00:36:33.489 --> 00:36:37.860
sector, right? But that was the... That was what

00:36:37.860 --> 00:36:39.739
the conversation was about. I told them everything

00:36:39.739 --> 00:36:42.739
that we did and how beneficial it was to the

00:36:42.739 --> 00:36:45.699
force and the families. And long story longer,

00:36:45.860 --> 00:36:48.500
here I am. I work at Florida Chamber. I'm the

00:36:48.500 --> 00:36:51.900
director for the health council. And we're doing

00:36:51.900 --> 00:36:55.579
some good stuff, man. Going back to Michael Phelps,

00:36:55.579 --> 00:36:57.639
it's interesting that you had that experience

00:36:57.639 --> 00:37:01.420
in person because I think it was, I think maybe

00:37:01.420 --> 00:37:03.340
three years ago now, maybe a little bit longer,

00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:05.099
there was a documentary called The Weight of

00:37:05.099 --> 00:37:08.289
Gold. And it was so good. And I want to still

00:37:08.289 --> 00:37:09.630
get some of the athletes from there, including

00:37:09.630 --> 00:37:11.050
Michael Phelps one day. I think that would be

00:37:11.050 --> 00:37:14.969
a great conversation. But it was the same exact

00:37:14.969 --> 00:37:17.610
issue amongst these professional athletes, especially

00:37:17.610 --> 00:37:20.610
these Olympians, as you and I have in our professions.

00:37:21.170 --> 00:37:24.170
The loss of tribe, loss of purpose, loss of identity.

00:37:24.449 --> 00:37:27.340
Because some of these kids... We're literally

00:37:27.340 --> 00:37:29.500
groomed. Like we were talking before we hit record.

00:37:30.340 --> 00:37:34.420
Groomed. Bad word. Yeah, these days it is. You

00:37:34.420 --> 00:37:36.320
know, if you have children and you just allow

00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:39.380
them to play, the Michael Phelpses will rise

00:37:39.380 --> 00:37:41.280
regardless. You're going to realize that kid

00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:43.619
needs to be, you know, on a program of, you know,

00:37:43.619 --> 00:37:47.360
exceptionalism in that particular sport. Yeah.

00:37:47.900 --> 00:37:50.360
But so you take that child now and that's all

00:37:50.360 --> 00:37:52.360
they've known in the pool, you know, five, six,

00:37:52.420 --> 00:37:55.480
seven days a week. And they win and they win

00:37:55.480 --> 00:37:57.619
and they win. And one day, that's the last time

00:37:57.619 --> 00:38:00.019
they're going to stand on a podium. And then

00:38:00.019 --> 00:38:02.480
they're like, well, then who the hell am I? And

00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:04.559
you heard it from all these different, you know,

00:38:04.619 --> 00:38:06.320
Lolo Jones and all these other people that were

00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:08.019
on there. And it was tragic because I think one

00:38:08.019 --> 00:38:10.239
of them was a wrestler, if I'm remembering rightly.

00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:14.039
And during the duration of filming the documentary.

00:38:15.070 --> 00:38:16.889
He went from talking about his mental health

00:38:16.889 --> 00:38:19.010
struggles to they said that he took his own life.

00:38:19.610 --> 00:38:22.250
So, you know, we were seeing this mirror. So

00:38:22.250 --> 00:38:25.190
it's amazing how, again, we're human beings in

00:38:25.190 --> 00:38:28.110
the uniform, you know, and then our early struggles

00:38:28.110 --> 00:38:30.230
are a big part. And we were talking when we were

00:38:30.230 --> 00:38:34.230
having lunch. What I've realized over and over

00:38:34.230 --> 00:38:36.329
and over again in these stories from our population

00:38:36.329 --> 00:38:39.510
is that when our men and women went to get help,

00:38:39.590 --> 00:38:41.849
whether it was a great psychologist, whether

00:38:41.849 --> 00:38:45.000
it was ayahuasca, whatever it was, More often

00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:48.960
than not, it wasn't Fallujah or 9 -11 or the

00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:53.260
Vegas shooting. It was when I was four years

00:38:53.260 --> 00:38:56.300
old, when I was six years old, and that was never

00:38:56.300 --> 00:38:59.460
addressed. Repressing all that stuff. Exactly.

00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:01.719
Now, working through that, I truly believe that's

00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:04.260
the hope of post -traumatic growth. That becomes

00:39:04.260 --> 00:39:06.179
an asset. That becomes a strength. You can't

00:39:06.179 --> 00:39:08.619
turn back time, but you can work through it and

00:39:08.619 --> 00:39:11.539
now be stronger, be more resilient, be more compassionate.

00:39:14.119 --> 00:39:18.960
crammed down there that usually is the over and

00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:21.159
over again the common denominator especially

00:39:21.159 --> 00:39:24.800
with the person that was there like the suicide

00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:26.880
attempt was imminent or even some of the guests

00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:28.219
they went through with it they just survived

00:39:28.219 --> 00:39:31.219
versus the people that seem to do okay in their

00:39:31.219 --> 00:39:35.000
career still had highs and lows but there was

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:38.469
an element of that early life either not being

00:39:38.469 --> 00:39:41.929
super traumatic or they just found ways of working

00:39:41.929 --> 00:39:45.510
through it myself included by pure chance so

00:39:45.510 --> 00:39:47.429
that when they entered the profession they weren't

00:39:47.429 --> 00:39:50.369
on a fractured foundation already so you look

00:39:50.369 --> 00:39:52.690
at whether it's you know the childhoods that

00:39:52.690 --> 00:39:54.389
some of these elite athletes have and there's

00:39:54.389 --> 00:39:57.809
loss of identity in that space or war fighters

00:39:57.809 --> 00:40:01.269
and firefighters that that's what drove us to

00:40:01.269 --> 00:40:03.550
want to be a protector but if left unaddressed

00:40:04.429 --> 00:40:07.329
Someone who survived 14 deployments ends up dying

00:40:07.329 --> 00:40:12.409
by their own hand. Yeah. Yeah. And so much of

00:40:12.409 --> 00:40:19.030
it comes back to recovery time. Right? Yeah.

00:40:19.550 --> 00:40:23.909
You know, in the military, after 9 -11, our recovery

00:40:23.909 --> 00:40:28.530
time was significantly decreased. And it wasn't

00:40:28.530 --> 00:40:31.170
like this for everybody, but for a lot of people.

00:40:31.969 --> 00:40:34.909
Basically, at least in special operations, a

00:40:34.909 --> 00:40:38.289
lot of people went from a 24 -month cycle, 18

00:40:38.289 --> 00:40:41.429
months of training, leave, workup training, all

00:40:41.429 --> 00:40:42.869
that kind of stuff, professional development,

00:40:43.030 --> 00:40:46.829
and then a six -month deployment that was usually

00:40:46.829 --> 00:40:50.070
a joint combined training type thing, running

00:40:50.070 --> 00:40:52.710
around, having fun, doing good stuff. Then 9

00:40:52.710 --> 00:40:57.679
-11 happens. And again, I got to be clear, it

00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:00.519
was not for everybody, but I'll use our Special

00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:03.420
Forces brothers as an example, the Green Berets,

00:41:03.539 --> 00:41:07.260
5th Group specifically. They absolutely went

00:41:07.260 --> 00:41:10.579
from an 18 -month, you know, a 24 -month total

00:41:10.579 --> 00:41:16.860
to a 6 -6. So home for six months, deployed kinetic

00:41:16.860 --> 00:41:19.730
deployment for six months. But the six months

00:41:19.730 --> 00:41:22.170
they're home, they're not really home. They're

00:41:22.170 --> 00:41:23.750
not doing leave. They're not doing professional

00:41:23.750 --> 00:41:27.010
development. They're doing the bare essential

00:41:27.010 --> 00:41:29.650
training they need to do to get back out the

00:41:29.650 --> 00:41:33.190
door and do A, B, or C in a kinetic environment,

00:41:33.449 --> 00:41:35.550
which means during those six months, they're

00:41:35.550 --> 00:41:37.989
gone for a lot of that time because you can't

00:41:37.989 --> 00:41:40.650
do a lot of that training back at home station.

00:41:40.769 --> 00:41:43.829
You've got to travel. And that was happening

00:41:43.829 --> 00:41:49.000
kind of across. Special operations. And, you

00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:52.400
know, as you can imagine, the wheels start coming

00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:58.880
off the proverbial bus pretty quickly. Check

00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:03.139
fire. No, no, no. No, I'm saying check fire because

00:42:03.139 --> 00:42:05.320
I forgot what the hell we were talking about

00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:09.800
right when we went into the SF stuff. Right when

00:42:09.800 --> 00:42:11.679
I went into the SF stuff. Yeah, so I was talking

00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:15.920
about the prevalence of... our childhood on our

00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:17.679
mental health later. But then you were talking

00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:21.320
about recovery. And recovery time. And then I

00:42:21.320 --> 00:42:23.380
folded into that. No, but that makes sense because

00:42:23.380 --> 00:42:25.519
you talked about the compression of that time.

00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:28.079
And it's the same with my profession. What should

00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:30.519
have been... That was going to be my way to fold

00:42:30.519 --> 00:42:34.659
into the 24 -72, you bastard. Well, you just

00:42:34.659 --> 00:42:37.949
did. It worked. Yeah, but there is a parallel,

00:42:38.010 --> 00:42:40.269
whether you're in the military at war or whether

00:42:40.269 --> 00:42:43.449
you're a mismanaged fire service. And I say that

00:42:43.449 --> 00:42:47.590
because we are in the middle of a woeful recruitment

00:42:47.590 --> 00:42:50.030
crisis because of poor decisions in the past.

00:42:50.929 --> 00:42:53.670
Well, let's talk about that. Yeah. Let's talk

00:42:53.670 --> 00:42:55.110
about that for a second. Because part of this

00:42:55.110 --> 00:42:58.349
chamber job, it's kind of like three buckets.

00:42:58.610 --> 00:43:01.670
There's the workforce, of course, private sector.

00:43:01.789 --> 00:43:03.730
There's the youth, and we can come back to that.

00:43:05.670 --> 00:43:11.489
Veterans and first responders. And what you're

00:43:11.489 --> 00:43:14.050
doing in the fire service space or what you have

00:43:14.050 --> 00:43:16.929
done with a lot of other people that have really

00:43:16.929 --> 00:43:20.929
worked hard on this is you have started to convince

00:43:20.929 --> 00:43:26.130
that community how important a recovery piece

00:43:26.130 --> 00:43:33.139
is. And a 24 -72, so one full 24 hours on. and

00:43:33.139 --> 00:43:37.579
a full 72, quote unquote, off, that is still,

00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:40.900
for a firefighter, 42 hours of work per week.

00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:44.679
That's still more than a full -time W -2, five

00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:49.039
-day -a -week job. And when you and I first met,

00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:54.260
and I realized when fire stations were on a 24

00:43:54.260 --> 00:43:59.960
and 48, that that was a 56. hour work week and

00:43:59.960 --> 00:44:03.519
that's not even taking into account the overtime

00:44:03.519 --> 00:44:06.420
that especially if you're a new guy you're almost

00:44:06.420 --> 00:44:11.179
like expected to accept um you know the expectation

00:44:11.179 --> 00:44:14.079
that if you're directed to do some overtime that

00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:15.920
you'll take it on especially if you're a new

00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:18.519
guy well now you're not talking about 56 hours

00:44:18.519 --> 00:44:22.440
you're talking about 65 70 80 hour weeks and

00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:25.340
these guys are being exposed to trauma all the

00:44:25.340 --> 00:44:27.760
time and all the emotional triggers that come

00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:32.860
with that. And we expect them to be driving around

00:44:32.860 --> 00:44:35.059
these giant red trucks for our neighborhoods

00:44:35.059 --> 00:44:37.800
at high rate of speed with little to no sleep.

00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:42.539
It's just, I'm really happy to hear that there's

00:44:42.539 --> 00:44:45.019
counties around our state and not even outside

00:44:45.019 --> 00:44:50.139
the state now that are adopting the 24 72 model.

00:44:50.570 --> 00:44:52.889
Is that a true statement that it is getting adopted?

00:44:53.369 --> 00:44:55.949
Absolutely, yeah. How many counties would you

00:44:55.949 --> 00:44:59.090
say so far? So as far as counties, it's two,

00:44:59.230 --> 00:45:01.590
Pasco and now Palm Beach, which I believe is

00:45:01.590 --> 00:45:03.789
our biggest county, if I'm not mistaken. Palm

00:45:03.789 --> 00:45:06.789
Beach, okay. And then numerous cities. I think

00:45:06.789 --> 00:45:09.889
we're up to 11 or 12. Kissimmee was another one

00:45:09.889 --> 00:45:13.420
that just went a few weeks ago. And then, like

00:45:13.420 --> 00:45:15.239
I said, even I keep getting messages from other

00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:17.519
parts of the country that are almost there now.

00:45:17.699 --> 00:45:21.760
And then Governor DeSantis just signed in a bill

00:45:21.760 --> 00:45:24.380
that was initiated by Danny Alvarez that was

00:45:24.380 --> 00:45:26.820
a wellness initiative. And there's some other

00:45:26.820 --> 00:45:28.219
things on there. And we're going to get to one

00:45:28.219 --> 00:45:33.619
of them, obviously, the TMS. But, you know, one

00:45:33.619 --> 00:45:36.159
of them was. Initially, he wanted, I think, a

00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:37.920
mandate, but then it became a recommendation

00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:40.539
for a 42 -hour workweek for the fire service.

00:45:40.699 --> 00:45:43.019
It was interesting, and I'll never stop saying

00:45:43.019 --> 00:45:45.579
this because it needs to be poured out into the

00:45:45.579 --> 00:45:49.460
spotlight. The Florida Firefighter Chiefs Association

00:45:49.460 --> 00:45:52.139
put out an email amongst their members saying

00:45:52.139 --> 00:45:54.940
that they opposed the 42 -hour workweek. Why

00:45:54.940 --> 00:45:58.440
do you think? Well, here's the issue. I mean,

00:45:58.460 --> 00:46:00.059
firstly, these are people that work 40 hours

00:46:00.059 --> 00:46:02.159
a week saying that they don't think their firefighters

00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:05.539
deserve to work less than 56. So, you know, take

00:46:05.539 --> 00:46:07.179
a step back and just think about that statement

00:46:07.179 --> 00:46:10.019
for a moment as a leader. Secondly, honestly,

00:46:10.300 --> 00:46:12.139
and it's not, you know, they're not representing

00:46:12.139 --> 00:46:14.760
every chief in Florida. There are some great

00:46:14.760 --> 00:46:16.860
chiefs in Florida. But sadly, these are the people

00:46:16.860 --> 00:46:19.079
that they elected and they're speaking for them.

00:46:19.099 --> 00:46:21.780
And that was their stance. But what I'm seeing.

00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:24.639
And I won't go the massive monologue on this

00:46:24.639 --> 00:46:26.760
because people listen to this podcast know the

00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:31.059
things. But what's crazy is if you look financially

00:46:31.059 --> 00:46:35.000
at the way that fire service is at the moment,

00:46:35.159 --> 00:46:37.900
we're woefully understaffed. So a lot of our

00:46:37.900 --> 00:46:39.980
firefighters are working overtime to fill in

00:46:39.980 --> 00:46:42.380
these vacancies, as you alluded to, which is

00:46:42.380 --> 00:46:44.800
time and a half, which is also breaking our people.

00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:48.519
So now you've got increased sick days to workman's

00:46:48.519 --> 00:46:51.829
comp injuries and all the things. And then we've

00:46:51.829 --> 00:46:53.349
got a lack of retention. So you've got these

00:46:53.349 --> 00:46:55.269
departments that are spending tens of thousands

00:46:55.269 --> 00:46:57.610
of dollars to train and equip these recruits

00:46:57.610 --> 00:47:00.690
who then, you know, a year, two, three years

00:47:00.690 --> 00:47:02.869
later, walk out the back door. And you've got

00:47:02.869 --> 00:47:05.929
people that would have stayed 25 years that are

00:47:05.929 --> 00:47:10.320
now leaving a lot sooner. When you look at it,

00:47:10.340 --> 00:47:12.380
there is no downside. You're going to improve

00:47:12.380 --> 00:47:14.179
the workforce. You're going to improve their

00:47:14.179 --> 00:47:16.239
families and relationships and health, the mental

00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:18.500
health, the physical health. But also fiscally,

00:47:18.500 --> 00:47:20.059
you're going to save these cities and counties

00:47:20.059 --> 00:47:22.360
money. So the question is, well, then why is

00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:25.260
there so much resistance? And the reality is

00:47:25.260 --> 00:47:27.619
because it takes courage. And I say this from

00:47:27.619 --> 00:47:30.659
every rank. The firefighters that push back and

00:47:30.659 --> 00:47:33.139
beat their chest saying, you know, I'll sleep

00:47:33.139 --> 00:47:35.800
when I'm dead, basically lack the courage to

00:47:35.800 --> 00:47:38.550
fight for time with their family. And time for

00:47:38.550 --> 00:47:40.309
their own mental health and physical health and

00:47:40.309 --> 00:47:42.570
performance. If we're talking about the chiefs

00:47:42.570 --> 00:47:45.190
and city and county managers, you know, and the

00:47:45.190 --> 00:47:48.969
board, then it's lacking the courage to say what

00:47:48.969 --> 00:47:51.650
we've done doesn't work. Up front, we're going

00:47:51.650 --> 00:47:53.909
to need a little bit more money to add these

00:47:53.909 --> 00:47:56.889
extra personnel. But that then in turn is going

00:47:56.889 --> 00:47:59.269
to save us money hand over fist from here on

00:47:59.269 --> 00:48:03.469
in. So really, it's a courage question. Are you

00:48:03.469 --> 00:48:06.280
actually willing to do the very thing? that you

00:48:06.280 --> 00:48:08.679
collect a salary for, and you have all these

00:48:08.679 --> 00:48:11.079
stripes on your shoulder, are you willing to

00:48:11.079 --> 00:48:13.960
actually finally do what you're paid to do, which

00:48:13.960 --> 00:48:16.659
is advocate for the health of your people and

00:48:16.659 --> 00:48:20.280
maximize our ability to respond to the community

00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:24.360
that you serve? So what that all makes me think

00:48:24.360 --> 00:48:29.360
of is there's a reason in the SEAL teams we were

00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:34.460
at a 3 -in -1 for a long time. 3 -in -1 meaning?

00:48:35.579 --> 00:48:38.559
The one is a deployment for six months, and the

00:48:38.559 --> 00:48:42.420
three is the 18 months that you're home, rest,

00:48:42.679 --> 00:48:47.820
recovery, refit, leave, professional development,

00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:50.579
unilateral training, joint training. All that

00:48:50.579 --> 00:48:53.440
stuff takes time, but the recovery piece takes

00:48:53.440 --> 00:49:00.909
time. You've got to have the recovery time. For

00:49:00.909 --> 00:49:03.510
what it's worth, for decision makers out there,

00:49:03.550 --> 00:49:06.409
especially those that work in the fire service,

00:49:06.570 --> 00:49:11.190
if you're on a 56 -hour work week and you're

00:49:11.190 --> 00:49:17.130
doing a 24 -hour cycle of work where you're exposed

00:49:17.130 --> 00:49:20.929
to trauma and then you come back from that and

00:49:20.929 --> 00:49:24.170
you're expecting that same person to come back

00:49:24.170 --> 00:49:31.760
48 hours later, It's a recipe for disaster because,

00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:35.380
you know, when we would go on these combat deployments,

00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:38.599
and I've been out for a while now, but I've been

00:49:38.599 --> 00:49:43.579
out, God, for eight years. But we'd go on these

00:49:43.579 --> 00:49:46.079
deployments and we'd get exposed to trauma, of

00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:50.420
course. And with trauma, as you well know, we've

00:49:50.420 --> 00:49:53.239
talked about before, there's emotional triggers

00:49:53.239 --> 00:49:55.539
associated with the trauma. And we would come

00:49:55.539 --> 00:49:58.579
back and we leave those triggers for the most

00:49:58.579 --> 00:50:01.599
part overseas. I know we've had this conversation

00:50:01.599 --> 00:50:07.530
before. But for a law enforcement officer. For

00:50:07.530 --> 00:50:10.969
a firefighter, for EMT, for somebody that's exposed

00:50:10.969 --> 00:50:13.849
to trauma at the 7 -Eleven around the corner

00:50:13.849 --> 00:50:17.449
from where they live. And a cop, a firefighter,

00:50:17.449 --> 00:50:19.809
somebody has a six -year -old kid die in their

00:50:19.809 --> 00:50:24.170
arms. Every time they go by that emotional trigger,

00:50:24.409 --> 00:50:28.130
there's going to be cognitive and behavioral

00:50:28.130 --> 00:50:33.730
health fallout from that trigger. And guys got

00:50:33.730 --> 00:50:37.440
to have... time and if you're not having the

00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:39.559
time in weeks and months you got to at least

00:50:39.559 --> 00:50:43.519
give them two full solid sleep cycles to get

00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:45.780
into stage three stage four sleep we can talk

00:50:45.780 --> 00:50:48.780
about the sleep with the TMS stuff but if you're

00:50:48.780 --> 00:50:51.480
not giving them that it's just a matter of time

00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:54.940
before you have another Joe Price situation on

00:50:54.940 --> 00:50:57.960
your hands it's it's it's almost criminal in

00:50:57.960 --> 00:51:02.289
my my opinion well what's sad is I mean Every

00:51:02.289 --> 00:51:05.650
day on social media, you'll see Florian Kress

00:51:05.650 --> 00:51:08.630
with a black shroud. And, you know, a lot of

00:51:08.630 --> 00:51:11.449
times they will say died suddenly. And we all

00:51:11.449 --> 00:51:13.889
know what that means. You know, died, you know,

00:51:13.889 --> 00:51:16.010
not line of duty or whatever, however they phrase

00:51:16.010 --> 00:51:18.849
it. And sometimes it's this bizarre physical

00:51:18.849 --> 00:51:22.630
issue. You know, the guy we just had, I think

00:51:22.630 --> 00:51:26.579
he was 25, young firefighter. uh became sepsis

00:51:26.579 --> 00:51:28.679
septic and just died i forget which department

00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:30.880
it was but one of you know one of the u .s departments

00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:33.380
but then you have so many that it's you know

00:51:33.380 --> 00:51:35.500
suicide or god forbid an overdose you probably

00:51:35.500 --> 00:51:37.860
won't hear about that either but yeah you know

00:51:37.860 --> 00:51:39.579
our profession is riddled with them and again

00:51:39.579 --> 00:51:42.460
these are young men and women that trained in

00:51:42.460 --> 00:51:46.420
an academy how not to die in a fire you know,

00:51:46.420 --> 00:51:49.500
that do save training where we work alongside

00:51:49.500 --> 00:51:52.139
PD and trying to, you know, rescue people in

00:51:52.139 --> 00:51:55.019
a mass casualty situation shooting and try not

00:51:55.019 --> 00:51:57.739
to die there too. And then again, the combat

00:51:57.739 --> 00:51:59.980
veteran, the firefighter, the cop, then they

00:51:59.980 --> 00:52:03.460
go die by their own hand. So when you're not

00:52:03.460 --> 00:52:05.719
addressing sleep deprivation, and as I've pointed

00:52:05.719 --> 00:52:08.739
out many times on here, bear it in mind, we use

00:52:08.739 --> 00:52:11.309
sleep deprivation for interrogation. for special

00:52:11.309 --> 00:52:15.750
forces selection, for torture. You've had Doc

00:52:15.750 --> 00:52:17.929
Parsley on here, right? Yes. Kirk Parsley. Yeah,

00:52:17.949 --> 00:52:21.070
exactly, numerous times. So we know the negative

00:52:21.070 --> 00:52:23.250
side, chronic and acute. And again, you were

00:52:23.250 --> 00:52:24.969
talking about driving that million -dollar engine

00:52:24.969 --> 00:52:28.769
through. Well, imagine the mental acuity of that

00:52:28.769 --> 00:52:32.090
person if they're on the second of those two

00:52:32.090 --> 00:52:34.670
24 -hour shifts because they got forced, or even

00:52:34.670 --> 00:52:36.949
worse, their department thought 48 hours would

00:52:36.949 --> 00:52:38.429
be a better schedule, which has happened all

00:52:38.429 --> 00:52:40.969
over the country. And now they're driving past

00:52:40.969 --> 00:52:43.909
you and your family and your SUV or your minivan.

00:52:44.050 --> 00:52:46.590
And that person's seeing cross -eyed and they

00:52:46.590 --> 00:52:49.110
blast through an intersection. Now, all of a

00:52:49.110 --> 00:52:51.929
sudden, you guys are on the news. These are real

00:52:51.929 --> 00:52:56.250
things. So the science shows that a 24 -hour,

00:52:56.309 --> 00:52:59.829
72 hours is the minimum to try and get as close

00:52:59.829 --> 00:53:02.889
to baseline as you can. But you start doing a

00:53:02.889 --> 00:53:05.489
24 -hour. You know, it's another cool conversation

00:53:05.489 --> 00:53:08.329
on this. Very close friends of our family, their

00:53:08.329 --> 00:53:13.309
son. is in the Marine Corps. And he's going to,

00:53:13.309 --> 00:53:16.630
after one enlistment, he's getting out. And he

00:53:16.630 --> 00:53:20.389
wants to be a firefighter. And he said, the one

00:53:20.389 --> 00:53:22.869
thing that I'm not sure about is it just seems

00:53:22.869 --> 00:53:26.369
like a lot of work and little downtime. And I

00:53:26.369 --> 00:53:27.570
said, where are you getting that information

00:53:27.570 --> 00:53:30.889
from? He goes, well, you know, it's a 2448. And

00:53:30.889 --> 00:53:33.429
I said, oh, it's actually not 2448 everywhere.

00:53:33.769 --> 00:53:36.690
I think you're talking about a recruiting tool.

00:53:36.789 --> 00:53:38.989
I think you're talking about a retention tool,

00:53:39.389 --> 00:53:41.789
especially retention. How much does it cost to

00:53:41.789 --> 00:53:44.670
get a guy through Firefighting Academy and everything?

00:53:44.809 --> 00:53:46.710
Is that in the hundreds of thousands of dollars?

00:53:46.789 --> 00:53:50.429
No, not so much that, but the locally here, because

00:53:50.429 --> 00:53:54.570
I sat down with, did a thing with the IHMC. So

00:53:54.570 --> 00:53:57.170
it was like a blue sky project and the local

00:53:57.170 --> 00:54:00.059
agency was there and they said, At that time,

00:54:00.099 --> 00:54:05.039
it cost them $18 ,000 per recruit. So you lose

00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:10.380
100 recruits, which happens frequently. You're

00:54:10.380 --> 00:54:12.920
right there at $2 million. Just walked out the

00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:15.960
door. You just gave away $2 million of your taxpayers'

00:54:16.179 --> 00:54:18.179
money. Now you take a larger agency because Marion

00:54:18.179 --> 00:54:21.380
isn't a very big county. Now you think about

00:54:21.380 --> 00:54:24.840
L .A. you're probably in the tens of millions

00:54:24.840 --> 00:54:26.920
of dollars, if not more. And then the overtime.

00:54:27.059 --> 00:54:33.000
Because you work in Anaheim. LA City, LAFD, their

00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:36.780
overtime budget for three years was a billion

00:54:36.780 --> 00:54:40.480
dollars. That's a B, a billion dollars. So you're

00:54:40.480 --> 00:54:42.500
telling me that you can't hire another shift.

00:54:43.420 --> 00:54:45.860
with a billion dollars all that overtime yeah

00:54:45.860 --> 00:54:48.760
exactly so so this is the thing yeah i mean you

00:54:48.760 --> 00:54:50.820
know and you're absolutely right the pasco counties

00:54:50.820 --> 00:54:53.000
and gainesvilles when they announced they were

00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:56.380
going to this new schedule what happened well

00:54:56.380 --> 00:54:59.420
danny alvarez no it wasn't danny it was uh doug

00:54:59.420 --> 00:55:03.320
um collins no um why i'm blank on his last name

00:55:03.320 --> 00:55:05.739
he's gonna kill me now if he hears this but he

00:55:05.739 --> 00:55:08.559
was saying that one of his friends works in um

00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:12.400
uh pasco and kind of like receiving on the recruitment

00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:15.380
side he said i literally need to have another

00:55:15.380 --> 00:55:18.179
person hired the phone is ringing off the hook

00:55:18.179 --> 00:55:19.800
the firefighter is wanting to work for pasco

00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:22.480
now so there is not even like a hypothesis this

00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:25.500
is a known thing anytime a department has made

00:55:25.500 --> 00:55:28.159
this this you know shift they are getting people

00:55:28.159 --> 00:55:32.260
coming quality of life is so is so important

00:55:33.150 --> 00:55:35.869
And, you know, I had it backwards in the teams.

00:55:35.949 --> 00:55:38.070
And we talked about this at lunch, too. But I

00:55:38.070 --> 00:55:40.510
always thought it was work first, then family,

00:55:40.530 --> 00:55:43.809
then self. But we have to allow people in the

00:55:43.809 --> 00:55:47.369
first responder community to approach it what

00:55:47.369 --> 00:55:49.929
I feel is the more appropriate way, which is

00:55:49.929 --> 00:55:57.230
self, family, work. Self meaning, you know, mind,

00:55:57.289 --> 00:56:01.309
body, spirit. The three -legged stool. If you

00:56:01.309 --> 00:56:03.730
can take care of yourself like that, then you

00:56:03.730 --> 00:56:06.889
can be more present for your family. And if your

00:56:06.889 --> 00:56:10.090
family situation is solid because you're solid,

00:56:10.230 --> 00:56:13.630
now you're all in on work. When you do it the

00:56:13.630 --> 00:56:15.869
reverse, and I did it reverse for a long time.

00:56:16.130 --> 00:56:18.250
Thank God Katie's still with me. I'm amazed.

00:56:20.389 --> 00:56:22.670
yeah katie we got three kids and they're all

00:56:22.670 --> 00:56:25.070
doing good you know we're empty nesters now yeah

00:56:25.070 --> 00:56:27.670
you said because i i almost was and then my son

00:56:27.670 --> 00:56:29.829
we had some changes and now he's going to community

00:56:29.829 --> 00:56:32.269
college here but yeah we were talking over lunch

00:56:32.269 --> 00:56:34.309
like i had that's right ty's living here now

00:56:34.309 --> 00:56:36.590
that's awesome so two weeks two years from now

00:56:36.590 --> 00:56:38.110
but by that point he'll be 20 so it probably

00:56:38.110 --> 00:56:40.389
won't sting as much but awesome yeah i was seeing

00:56:40.389 --> 00:56:42.929
seeing how challenging that was and that's another

00:56:42.929 --> 00:56:45.369
part of the mental health conversation for the

00:56:45.369 --> 00:56:47.530
kids when they go away and they're leaving that

00:56:47.929 --> 00:56:49.849
safe platform that they've had their whole life

00:56:49.849 --> 00:56:52.030
but then for the parents that was our purpose

00:56:52.030 --> 00:56:55.690
that was our you know point of pride was those

00:56:55.690 --> 00:56:58.210
children and now you know if you're a good parent

00:56:58.210 --> 00:57:00.949
you set them off let them forge their own path

00:57:00.949 --> 00:57:03.289
but then you realize well shit who am i now i

00:57:03.289 --> 00:57:05.489
was a parent for all this time and i still am

00:57:05.489 --> 00:57:08.909
but that was kind of my mission set for 18 20

00:57:08.909 --> 00:57:11.750
25 years your primary mission and now when that's

00:57:11.750 --> 00:57:15.050
gone yeah we have we have three kids and i uh

00:57:15.050 --> 00:57:18.559
i dropped meg off at school A few weeks ago,

00:57:18.599 --> 00:57:21.699
starting summer session at Auburn University.

00:57:22.119 --> 00:57:28.619
War Eagle. But that was tough. That was tough.

00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:31.300
Very different than dropping the boys off at

00:57:31.300 --> 00:57:35.159
school. When I dropped Meg off, you know, she

00:57:35.159 --> 00:57:38.119
has daddy wrapped around her little finger. And

00:57:38.119 --> 00:57:39.699
then she was like, okay, dad, I'm good. You can

00:57:39.699 --> 00:57:46.940
go. I'm like, what? You don't need me? Yeah,

00:57:46.980 --> 00:57:52.659
for a lot of us, that's our identity for a long

00:57:52.659 --> 00:57:56.440
time. So, yeah. Absolutely. Well, we kind of

00:57:56.440 --> 00:57:58.980
dropped the TMS thing just briefly and earlier.

00:57:59.099 --> 00:58:00.800
So we're talking, obviously, about the importance

00:58:00.800 --> 00:58:03.760
of rest and recovery and schedules. But Danny

00:58:03.760 --> 00:58:07.059
Alvarez was on here. I had Dr. Eric Wan on the

00:58:07.059 --> 00:58:13.179
show. So let's talk about TMS, EEGs, and... the

00:58:13.179 --> 00:58:15.519
states that are helping their first responders

00:58:15.519 --> 00:58:18.139
and military with these things. All right, so

00:58:18.139 --> 00:58:25.400
full disclosure, I am not a TMS expert, okay?

00:58:26.059 --> 00:58:30.000
And I also am in no way, shape, or form associated

00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:34.260
or affiliated with any TMS folks. But I think

00:58:34.260 --> 00:58:39.690
a good starting point is that TMS, transcranial

00:58:39.690 --> 00:58:41.949
magnetic stimulation, hasn't been around for

00:58:41.949 --> 00:58:45.909
a long, long time. And it's FDA approved for

00:58:45.909 --> 00:58:50.409
treatment resistant depression. But what this

00:58:50.409 --> 00:58:53.889
stuff is, is not traditional TMS. Traditional

00:58:53.889 --> 00:58:58.590
TMS is a standardized power and a standardized

00:58:58.590 --> 00:59:04.730
wavelength, 10 hertz. What Dr. Eric Wan and those

00:59:04.730 --> 00:59:08.949
folks have navigated through is the fact that

00:59:08.949 --> 00:59:11.570
every brain, like a fingerprint, every brain

00:59:11.570 --> 00:59:14.989
is uniquely different. And every brain's alpha

00:59:14.989 --> 00:59:18.550
wave frequency is uniquely different. And what

00:59:18.550 --> 00:59:22.610
they have done is they figured out a way to look

00:59:22.610 --> 00:59:27.010
at your EEG, look at your EKG, and determine

00:59:27.010 --> 00:59:30.869
what your intrinsic alpha wave frequency should

00:59:30.869 --> 00:59:34.679
be. Now, when you take somebody that's been exposed

00:59:34.679 --> 00:59:37.179
to trauma, when you take a kid that's dealing

00:59:37.179 --> 00:59:40.679
with autism, when you take somebody that's been

00:59:40.679 --> 00:59:46.000
exposed to repetitive subconcussive events, CTE,

00:59:46.260 --> 00:59:50.440
TBI, blasted overexplosure, when you take somebody

00:59:50.440 --> 00:59:52.900
that's been exposed to just about any of that,

00:59:52.980 --> 00:59:58.400
you can actually see it in the EEG. And you can

00:59:58.400 --> 01:00:02.340
actually... You see it because that the alpha

01:00:02.340 --> 01:00:05.059
waves are out of sync in parts of the head and

01:00:05.059 --> 01:00:08.239
parts of the brain. They have the ability to

01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:10.900
dial in whatever you're in. I'm a nine point

01:00:10.900 --> 01:00:12.940
five guy and I've been through treatment. Right.

01:00:13.019 --> 01:00:16.420
So they found a place in my brain that was it

01:00:16.420 --> 01:00:19.699
like 18 hertz. You know, probably why I was so

01:00:19.699 --> 01:00:22.519
ADD anyway. So they find this place that's 18

01:00:22.519 --> 01:00:23.980
hertz in my brain. They said, okay, we're going

01:00:23.980 --> 01:00:26.340
to slow this down to what your intrinsic actual

01:00:26.340 --> 01:00:29.840
wavelength should be. It's done with very, very

01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:35.619
light magnetic pulse energy. They get all those

01:00:35.619 --> 01:00:38.980
wavelengths synchronized. I had two peaks in

01:00:38.980 --> 01:00:42.280
my EEG. When you looked at the graph. There were

01:00:42.280 --> 01:00:44.619
two alpha wave peaks, which you absolutely don't

01:00:44.619 --> 01:00:48.000
want. You want everything to be symmetrical and

01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:52.559
nice steep curves and a very tall peak. And you

01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:54.880
want it to all look the same everywhere throughout

01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:57.139
your head. And I had an area that was too fast.

01:00:57.820 --> 01:01:00.420
So they slowed it down. And then what happened

01:01:00.420 --> 01:01:03.940
is my peak, the alpha wave peak started to coincide

01:01:03.940 --> 01:01:07.179
over the course of treatment. I went from a three

01:01:07.179 --> 01:01:11.710
to five hours of sleep guy. to seven to eight

01:01:11.710 --> 01:01:15.469
hours of sleep guy. I got eight freaking hours

01:01:15.469 --> 01:01:18.550
of sleep last night. And that's a normal thing

01:01:18.550 --> 01:01:22.409
for me now. Now there's a ton of sleep hygiene

01:01:22.409 --> 01:01:26.230
stuff you can do and it's all good. I'm not saying

01:01:26.230 --> 01:01:28.769
anything bad about all that and all the stuff

01:01:28.769 --> 01:01:31.190
that Kirk partially talks about. This stuff's

01:01:31.190 --> 01:01:34.409
all awesome. But when you look at the objective

01:01:34.409 --> 01:01:37.280
measure, you can't fake an EEG. And when you

01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:40.360
look at the objective measurements of what happens

01:01:40.360 --> 01:01:42.659
during this treatment, which is non -invasive,

01:01:42.820 --> 01:01:47.079
it doesn't hurt, there's no drugs, and you see

01:01:47.079 --> 01:01:51.139
people's sleep actually improve. You actually

01:01:51.139 --> 01:01:54.800
can see the latency period shift in the stage

01:01:54.800 --> 01:01:59.480
three, stage four sleep study graphs shift left,

01:01:59.599 --> 01:02:02.179
meaning they're getting into that recovery level

01:02:02.179 --> 01:02:05.519
sleep. which is the most important level of sleep,

01:02:05.579 --> 01:02:08.400
they're getting into that much faster. And when

01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:10.440
you're in recovery sleep, Kirk talks about all

01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:12.780
the time, that's the only time that your brain

01:02:12.780 --> 01:02:16.400
shrinks enough to get that what they call glymphatic,

01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:19.260
not lymphatic, but the glymphatic flush. They

01:02:19.260 --> 01:02:22.539
get all the metabolic, all that waste, all that

01:02:22.539 --> 01:02:25.320
waste that arguably is where a lot of dementia

01:02:25.320 --> 01:02:28.900
and Alzheimer's comes from. You shrink the brain

01:02:28.900 --> 01:02:31.639
during stage three and four sleep, and that's

01:02:31.639 --> 01:02:35.079
when all that crap gets flushed out. Well, what

01:02:35.079 --> 01:02:38.159
happens, at least in the teams, I was living

01:02:38.159 --> 01:02:41.260
on Ambien for a long time. And what I've learned

01:02:41.260 --> 01:02:44.079
from guys like Kirk is when you're on Ambien,

01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:47.840
you never get into recovery sleep. You're tranquilized,

01:02:47.920 --> 01:02:51.099
you're sleeping, you're getting some rest, but

01:02:51.099 --> 01:02:53.900
you're never... fully recovering. And over time,

01:02:53.900 --> 01:02:56.659
it's a form of torture, like you were mentioning

01:02:56.659 --> 01:03:01.599
earlier. So what's happened now is you have states,

01:03:01.719 --> 01:03:05.519
I believe it's five now, Missouri, Ohio, Florida,

01:03:05.659 --> 01:03:11.099
Virginia, Massachusetts, they've all created

01:03:11.099 --> 01:03:14.900
legislative grants to get this treatment for

01:03:14.900 --> 01:03:19.539
first responders, former first responders. Military

01:03:19.539 --> 01:03:21.539
veterans, and I think they're working on getting

01:03:21.539 --> 01:03:24.840
family members as well because there's a whole

01:03:24.840 --> 01:03:26.699
other conversation we can have with dependence

01:03:26.699 --> 01:03:34.500
and stress and all that stuff. But they're large

01:03:34.500 --> 01:03:38.239
grants, and here in Florida, we're treating a

01:03:38.239 --> 01:03:41.380
lot of guys. And I say we because I see this

01:03:41.380 --> 01:03:46.679
as a society, community, city, state, district,

01:03:46.760 --> 01:03:50.420
county, state, national. level effort that these

01:03:50.420 --> 01:03:54.039
guys are doing. And I'm excited to be in the

01:03:54.039 --> 01:03:56.340
role I'm in, in the chamber now, because one

01:03:56.340 --> 01:03:59.099
of those buckets that we're focused on is veterans

01:03:59.099 --> 01:04:03.000
and first responders. And this treatment is absolutely

01:04:03.000 --> 01:04:06.940
changing and saving lives. So, uh, you know,

01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:09.179
I, when I was at SOCOM, when we were exposed

01:04:09.179 --> 01:04:12.199
to this stuff for the first time, like, um, let's

01:04:12.199 --> 01:04:15.039
see, I've been out for ages. So about 11 years

01:04:15.039 --> 01:04:18.340
ago, I got exposed to this stuff. And it was,

01:04:18.340 --> 01:04:20.380
you know, coming across as kind of like snake

01:04:20.380 --> 01:04:23.260
oil, black magic type stuff. But since then,

01:04:23.400 --> 01:04:26.519
they've done a lot of evidence -based studies,

01:04:26.619 --> 01:04:31.320
a lot of double blind placebo type trials. And

01:04:31.320 --> 01:04:35.900
it works. It works. And it's really valuable.

01:04:35.960 --> 01:04:38.940
So the more guys we can get doing, you know,

01:04:38.960 --> 01:04:41.079
and Representative Alvarez, he had a good point.

01:04:41.119 --> 01:04:43.519
He's like, hey, you know, it's a multimillion

01:04:43.519 --> 01:04:46.659
dollar grant. And if we use it all in the state

01:04:46.659 --> 01:04:49.300
of Florida, next year we'll get more. We'll get

01:04:49.300 --> 01:04:52.079
a bigger grant. And that's happening in five

01:04:52.079 --> 01:04:54.539
states now. I hope it ends up happening in 50

01:04:54.539 --> 01:04:57.480
states. And I hope it expands to the family members.

01:04:58.519 --> 01:05:03.460
And I'm passionate about it because I've seen

01:05:03.460 --> 01:05:07.639
what it did to my life, my marriage, my relationship

01:05:07.639 --> 01:05:10.760
with my kids. I have a very close friend. I'm

01:05:10.760 --> 01:05:13.840
not going to mention his name. He wouldn't mind

01:05:13.840 --> 01:05:16.380
if I mentioned his name, but I'm not going to

01:05:16.380 --> 01:05:20.340
say it just because. But he was a former EOD

01:05:20.340 --> 01:05:24.460
tech, became a SEAL, spent 30 years in the military.

01:05:24.920 --> 01:05:27.780
Maybe it wasn't full 30. But anyway, his last

01:05:27.780 --> 01:05:30.739
job, he was a staff tour at one of our groups

01:05:30.739 --> 01:05:35.019
in Virginia Beach. And on his way home, so you

01:05:35.019 --> 01:05:37.139
can imagine, this guy's been exposed to a ton

01:05:37.139 --> 01:05:41.409
of over... blast over pressurization a lot of

01:05:41.409 --> 01:05:45.070
tbis and what was happening a couple times a

01:05:45.070 --> 01:05:48.050
week on his way home and this is a home he lived

01:05:48.050 --> 01:05:52.909
in for over 20 years uh he was getting lost yeah

01:05:52.909 --> 01:05:56.829
there was on a 20 minute drive home over the

01:05:56.829 --> 01:05:59.710
course of 20 years and towards the end of this

01:05:59.710 --> 01:06:02.769
guy's career uh he was getting lost on the way

01:06:02.769 --> 01:06:05.039
home To the point where he had to put a little

01:06:05.039 --> 01:06:07.559
app, you know, and this was a little while ago,

01:06:07.659 --> 01:06:10.039
so it wasn't as easy as it is now. But he had

01:06:10.039 --> 01:06:12.360
to put an app in his phone and, you know, and

01:06:12.360 --> 01:06:14.019
then follow the map. Oh, yeah, yeah, I know where

01:06:14.019 --> 01:06:19.019
I am now. When he went through this treatment,

01:06:19.079 --> 01:06:25.690
he flew home for a weekend. after the first two

01:06:25.690 --> 01:06:27.849
weeks of treatment the treatment usually is about

01:06:27.849 --> 01:06:31.269
20 sessions it takes about a month or you you

01:06:31.269 --> 01:06:34.409
can spread it out longer if you want but he flew

01:06:34.409 --> 01:06:36.929
home and then he went back to finish the treatment

01:06:36.929 --> 01:06:40.550
and in the headquarters was in california newport

01:06:40.550 --> 01:06:44.469
beach and i got a call from his wife she was

01:06:44.469 --> 01:06:48.210
sobbing and brother i thought something horrible

01:06:48.210 --> 01:06:51.230
had just happened And she's like, no, no, no,

01:06:51.289 --> 01:06:55.510
John. I have my husband back. There were tears

01:06:55.510 --> 01:06:59.030
of joy. And it was because he was sleeping better.

01:06:59.210 --> 01:07:02.369
And yes, it helps with TBI and PTSD and anxiety

01:07:02.369 --> 01:07:04.449
and all this stuff. But I think when you're talking

01:07:04.449 --> 01:07:09.090
about the type of people that are first responders,

01:07:09.250 --> 01:07:11.190
the type of people in law enforcement, the type

01:07:11.190 --> 01:07:14.690
of people that are military, a lot of them don't

01:07:14.690 --> 01:07:17.829
want to hear that this is a treatment for PTSD.

01:07:18.940 --> 01:07:20.639
They don't want anything to do with anything

01:07:20.639 --> 01:07:23.440
that's going to label them as a TBI or a concussive

01:07:23.440 --> 01:07:26.480
issue or any of that stuff, especially in the

01:07:26.480 --> 01:07:30.199
behavioral health world. And we saw this with

01:07:30.199 --> 01:07:34.119
the study we did at SOCOM. It was primarily for

01:07:34.119 --> 01:07:38.679
TBI and PTSD for this methodology. And then after

01:07:38.679 --> 01:07:40.659
the study was all done, we had guys come and

01:07:40.659 --> 01:07:43.179
tell us, hey, man, if you just told us that was

01:07:43.179 --> 01:07:46.019
a sleep, you know, a way to make our sleep better,

01:07:46.099 --> 01:07:48.780
which would have improved performance. you would

01:07:48.780 --> 01:07:51.860
have had three times as many people enter the

01:07:51.860 --> 01:07:55.739
study. Well, they've learned now. So these states

01:07:55.739 --> 01:07:58.000
that are doing it, it's all about sleep. It's

01:07:58.000 --> 01:07:59.380
all about, because you can go into the team room

01:07:59.380 --> 01:08:02.280
and not mention anything about behavioral health

01:08:02.280 --> 01:08:04.639
or counseling or any of that stuff, right? And

01:08:04.639 --> 01:08:06.780
just say, hey man, how many guys show hands got

01:08:06.780 --> 01:08:10.380
less than six hours sleep last night? Three quarters

01:08:10.380 --> 01:08:12.340
of the hands are going to go up. And it's like,

01:08:12.360 --> 01:08:14.199
hey man, this is a way to make that better. And

01:08:14.199 --> 01:08:16.640
if sleep gets better, performance gets better.

01:08:17.530 --> 01:08:20.470
and that's an easy conversation to have with

01:08:20.470 --> 01:08:24.010
people. Yeah. It's funny because that literally

01:08:24.010 --> 01:08:27.890
mirrors what I started doing. It's probably been

01:08:27.890 --> 01:08:31.189
a few years now, but early in this mental health

01:08:31.189 --> 01:08:34.630
conversation, you had the alphas, and I'm using

01:08:34.630 --> 01:08:36.729
air quotes because it's not actually a real thing,

01:08:36.850 --> 01:08:42.189
but that mental health stuff is just being a

01:08:42.189 --> 01:08:44.649
pussy and all that kind of thing. And I was like,

01:08:44.710 --> 01:08:46.859
all right, well then... As I'm learning what

01:08:46.859 --> 01:08:49.060
are the tools, I'm realizing, well, it's the

01:08:49.060 --> 01:08:52.039
same exact thing for performance. And I always

01:08:52.039 --> 01:08:54.800
credit him as a baseball player, Logan Gelbrich,

01:08:54.819 --> 01:08:57.619
who came on the show. And the real aha moment

01:08:57.619 --> 01:08:59.939
for me is he was talking about a moment where

01:08:59.939 --> 01:09:02.199
he was in the flow state playing baseball. And

01:09:02.199 --> 01:09:04.239
he broke it down because he's a coach as well.

01:09:04.439 --> 01:09:06.739
And he said, so to get in a flow state, you need

01:09:06.739 --> 01:09:09.350
to have, you know. thousands of repetitions of

01:09:09.350 --> 01:09:12.010
that skill you need to have high stress well

01:09:12.010 --> 01:09:13.529
again if you're in the fire service especially

01:09:13.529 --> 01:09:14.890
if you've been there for a while you got those

01:09:14.890 --> 01:09:18.289
two yeah and you need to have a clear mind and

01:09:18.289 --> 01:09:21.489
that was the missing piece so all these guys

01:09:21.489 --> 01:09:23.689
that were saying oh you know it's just pussy

01:09:23.689 --> 01:09:25.489
stuff and all that stuff it's like okay so you're

01:09:25.489 --> 01:09:27.510
actually deliberately not wanting to be a good

01:09:27.510 --> 01:09:30.689
firefighter is that what i'm getting oh you do

01:09:30.689 --> 01:09:32.890
want to be a good firefighter okay well then

01:09:32.890 --> 01:09:35.750
we need to talk about performance then in which

01:09:35.750 --> 01:09:39.250
case you know a The meditation and the sleep

01:09:39.250 --> 01:09:40.989
and all these things are going to help you actually

01:09:40.989 --> 01:09:43.189
perform at the highest level. Because as I mentioned,

01:09:43.689 --> 01:09:46.090
100 pounds of gear, climbing 30 stories, and

01:09:46.090 --> 01:09:48.489
then you go to work. Now you've got to map out

01:09:48.489 --> 01:09:50.949
a smoked out apartment and try and find that

01:09:50.949 --> 01:09:53.590
child that's hiding under the bed. You honestly

01:09:53.590 --> 01:09:55.449
think you're going to be able to do that when

01:09:55.449 --> 01:09:57.609
your mind is like a hurricane? No, you're not.

01:09:58.090 --> 01:10:00.569
So this is the beautiful thing, exactly underlining

01:10:00.569 --> 01:10:03.310
what you said. Reframing it as a performance

01:10:03.310 --> 01:10:05.510
tool, which it is. It's not smoke and mirrors.

01:10:05.729 --> 01:10:08.260
Right. The beautiful side effect is you're also

01:10:08.260 --> 01:10:11.520
positively affecting mental health. And I love,

01:10:11.560 --> 01:10:13.539
and I'm going to do the TMS when, you know, the

01:10:13.539 --> 01:10:16.840
geography is not an issue because it makes perfect

01:10:16.840 --> 01:10:18.500
sense to me. I mean, I've had, you know, I've

01:10:18.500 --> 01:10:20.060
been a firefighter. So there's all that sleep

01:10:20.060 --> 01:10:22.520
deprivation. Tons of conclusive events, lots

01:10:22.520 --> 01:10:24.920
of trauma. Exactly. Stunt work, martial arts,

01:10:24.939 --> 01:10:26.720
all the things. Yeah, that does. And so I know

01:10:26.720 --> 01:10:28.399
that's the case. And I do a lot of the sleep

01:10:28.399 --> 01:10:31.909
hygiene. I took Kirk's word as gospel. I still

01:10:31.909 --> 01:10:34.569
have his sleep remedy on my fridge there. I do

01:10:34.569 --> 01:10:37.149
the blue blocking lenses. I have the house at

01:10:37.149 --> 01:10:42.210
67, all the things. But I can't control how well

01:10:42.210 --> 01:10:44.590
I sleep at night. I sleep, but I still have that

01:10:44.590 --> 01:10:46.310
waking up with my jaw clenching and everything.

01:10:46.649 --> 01:10:48.890
And I think there's a part of that that there's

01:10:48.890 --> 01:10:52.420
probably a physiological element too. So, you

01:10:52.420 --> 01:10:55.020
know, it's a win -win again. You know, if you

01:10:55.020 --> 01:10:56.819
do CrossFit, you end up with a good physique,

01:10:56.920 --> 01:10:58.859
but you're not doing CrossFit to get a good physique.

01:10:59.199 --> 01:11:02.560
You do TMS, you end up with good mental health,

01:11:02.739 --> 01:11:05.100
but you can make the main focus performance,

01:11:05.420 --> 01:11:07.119
which is what we need to do in the fire service.

01:11:07.180 --> 01:11:09.779
Because as one of my first t -shirts I ever made

01:11:09.779 --> 01:11:12.699
for this podcast said, lives depend on you. There's

01:11:12.699 --> 01:11:16.140
almost no profession that needs more, a higher

01:11:16.140 --> 01:11:20.479
level of mental acuity than a firefighter paramedic.

01:11:21.130 --> 01:11:24.550
Because we have such a broad skill set and there

01:11:24.550 --> 01:11:27.329
is no workup. You're lying in a bunk room. The

01:11:27.329 --> 01:11:29.789
tones go off. Now you've got to drag a kid from

01:11:29.789 --> 01:11:32.189
a fire and do a cardiac algorithm on the front

01:11:32.189 --> 01:11:35.750
lawn. And there's no VA for you guys. No. We're

01:11:35.750 --> 01:11:38.090
discarded the moment we walk out the back door.

01:11:38.189 --> 01:11:40.069
And that sounds dramatic, but it's true. You

01:11:40.069 --> 01:11:42.390
cease to be a statistic. I mean, the Department

01:11:42.390 --> 01:11:44.909
of Veterans Affairs, the medical side of the

01:11:44.909 --> 01:11:48.920
house. And I know there's a lot of people out

01:11:48.920 --> 01:11:51.739
there that disagree with me, but I think that

01:11:51.739 --> 01:11:56.859
stuff is amazing. Amazing. Now, I know there's

01:11:56.859 --> 01:11:58.479
a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse that goes on

01:11:58.479 --> 01:12:02.039
just like any large government organization.

01:12:03.260 --> 01:12:05.000
But I have a lot of friends that are walking

01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:09.539
around today because of the VA care they got.

01:12:09.619 --> 01:12:12.479
So I will never bad talk them. I know it's not

01:12:12.479 --> 01:12:17.569
perfect. The point I'm making is all of our military,

01:12:17.989 --> 01:12:22.149
that's accessible for every military veteran

01:12:22.149 --> 01:12:27.510
in America. And back to the emotional triggers

01:12:27.510 --> 01:12:30.630
that our first responders are exposed to, I feel

01:12:30.630 --> 01:12:33.590
that every time a firefighter walks out the front

01:12:33.590 --> 01:12:35.590
door and says goodbye to their spouse and their

01:12:35.590 --> 01:12:39.210
kids, every time a law enforcement officer puts

01:12:39.210 --> 01:12:45.750
on body armor and slings a gun, deployment meaning

01:12:45.750 --> 01:12:49.930
you may or may not get exposed to trauma you

01:12:49.930 --> 01:12:55.350
may or may not get hurt or worse but you're walking

01:12:55.350 --> 01:12:58.109
out that door to go deal with it and the big

01:12:58.109 --> 01:13:01.649
difference in the veteran space is that was episodic

01:13:01.649 --> 01:13:04.090
months at a time then you come home and for the

01:13:04.090 --> 01:13:07.909
most part you leave it over there you guys don't

01:13:07.909 --> 01:13:11.489
have the ability to do that so there's even more

01:13:12.060 --> 01:13:14.859
of a requirement for you than a lot of military

01:13:14.859 --> 01:13:19.939
guys for something like the VA. Now, I've said

01:13:19.939 --> 01:13:22.680
that in the past and I've been jumped on because,

01:13:22.760 --> 01:13:24.880
you know, well, they have this, this, this and

01:13:24.880 --> 01:13:26.520
that. And I'm like, OK, I don't know what any

01:13:26.520 --> 01:13:29.380
of that means. What I do know is that there is

01:13:29.380 --> 01:13:31.279
not a Department of Veterans Affairs for our

01:13:31.279 --> 01:13:35.670
first responders. And this thing that Representative

01:13:35.670 --> 01:13:38.750
Alvarez and his team have gotten approved in

01:13:38.750 --> 01:13:42.729
Florida and is now in five states is one valuable

01:13:42.729 --> 01:13:46.010
way. I think there's a lot of other ways to get

01:13:46.010 --> 01:13:48.489
after it and help, but this is one way to help

01:13:48.489 --> 01:13:52.630
our first responders. And I think we need to

01:13:52.630 --> 01:13:55.890
do everything we can to make sure it stays in

01:13:55.890 --> 01:14:01.609
place. And more is added onto it. They call it

01:14:01.609 --> 01:14:05.170
ETMS, EEG Guide TMS. That's great, but there's

01:14:05.170 --> 01:14:09.569
other stuff too. Anyway, a little bit of a soapbox

01:14:09.569 --> 01:14:11.729
moment there, sorry. No, but it's absolutely

01:14:11.729 --> 01:14:14.649
true, and this is what I've said, and it hurts

01:14:14.649 --> 01:14:17.010
us in so many ways. It hurts us statistically,

01:14:17.310 --> 01:14:20.109
because if you're taking, for example, the mental

01:14:20.109 --> 01:14:27.029
health conversation, we supposedly had only 74

01:14:27.029 --> 01:14:30.479
line -of -duty deaths. in America of firefighters

01:14:30.479 --> 01:14:34.539
in 2023. That's it. Yeah. I mean, it's still

01:14:34.539 --> 01:14:36.720
bad, but nationwide, that's... But that's completely

01:14:36.720 --> 01:14:39.340
wrong. No, it doesn't. Because here's the thing.

01:14:39.439 --> 01:14:42.020
Firstly, I think it was that... That was suicide,

01:14:42.239 --> 01:14:44.520
I think. I can't remember now. I'm blanking on

01:14:44.520 --> 01:14:46.779
the exact statistic, but I think it was either

01:14:46.779 --> 01:14:48.819
full line of duty deaths or suicides. But anyway,

01:14:49.020 --> 01:14:53.020
so... that's the ones that qualify for line of

01:14:53.020 --> 01:14:55.000
duty deaths. It's the ones that reported. So

01:14:55.000 --> 01:14:56.899
we all know, for example, that they were active.

01:14:57.039 --> 01:14:59.399
They were active. Yeah. Yeah. So they were firefighters.

01:14:59.579 --> 01:15:01.939
Yeah. Yeah. So I know I can tell you right now

01:15:01.939 --> 01:15:03.739
in the state of Florida, there's more than that.

01:15:03.760 --> 01:15:06.819
Just in the one state, one of 50 states. So you

01:15:06.819 --> 01:15:09.380
have the underreporting of, you know, whatever

01:15:09.380 --> 01:15:11.220
the thing is. And they've got to fit the criteria

01:15:11.220 --> 01:15:13.399
of being line of duty. Meaning if you were on

01:15:13.399 --> 01:15:15.479
your second day off or something and you have

01:15:15.479 --> 01:15:17.560
a heart attack, it's not attributed to your job.

01:15:18.300 --> 01:15:19.819
Even though, of course, your job contributed

01:15:19.819 --> 01:15:23.140
to that. But then, as you alluded to, now take

01:15:23.140 --> 01:15:25.739
the retirees. You have most of these firefighters

01:15:25.739 --> 01:15:28.680
that are going to transition out around their

01:15:28.680 --> 01:15:33.130
50s. When does most disease manifest? after that

01:15:33.130 --> 01:15:35.930
i mean the veteran suicide epidemic's not with

01:15:35.930 --> 01:15:38.850
that duty guys i mean it's still bad but it's

01:15:38.850 --> 01:15:42.090
after exactly so get out so it's you know the

01:15:42.090 --> 01:15:45.050
statistic is such a woeful tip of the iceberg

01:15:45.050 --> 01:15:47.329
of what it is so then people look at the numbers

01:15:47.329 --> 01:15:48.970
and go oh well it's not that bad there's a million

01:15:48.970 --> 01:15:51.729
firefighters i'm only lost 74 and that's okay

01:15:51.729 --> 01:15:55.390
but that's wrong and then like you said if if

01:15:55.390 --> 01:15:57.289
you think about you don't have any skin in the

01:15:57.289 --> 01:15:58.989
game if they walk out the door and that's it

01:15:58.989 --> 01:16:01.770
you've washed your hands of them where's the

01:16:02.489 --> 01:16:05.130
the draw to make the fire service healthier.

01:16:05.590 --> 01:16:08.329
Whereas if you have a V a version of the VA,

01:16:08.430 --> 01:16:10.430
we're like, well, God, it's costing us a fortune.

01:16:10.510 --> 01:16:12.050
These firefighters are just wrecked when they

01:16:12.050 --> 01:16:14.689
come out. And it's, is there any kind of medical

01:16:14.689 --> 01:16:16.930
plan that you're eligible for when you retire?

01:16:17.109 --> 01:16:19.170
It's one year of Cobra, which anyone gets when

01:16:19.170 --> 01:16:21.770
they leave a job, which is like, you know, thousands

01:16:21.770 --> 01:16:24.989
a month for the premiums. And then after that,

01:16:25.090 --> 01:16:27.500
you're on your own. So you think about all the

01:16:27.500 --> 01:16:29.659
physical and mental health injuries that you've

01:16:29.659 --> 01:16:33.239
accumulated over 10, 20, 25 years. Wow. And then

01:16:33.239 --> 01:16:36.260
you just literally slam the door behind you.

01:16:36.300 --> 01:16:39.100
So the generation that was kind of on when I

01:16:39.100 --> 01:16:42.729
first got hired 22 years ago. That was a tail

01:16:42.729 --> 01:16:44.750
end where they still had got health insurance,

01:16:44.949 --> 01:16:49.270
but my generation, nothing. And again, the whole

01:16:49.270 --> 01:16:51.810
point is to make people healthier. I've always

01:16:51.810 --> 01:16:54.390
said this about the British NHS. If you have

01:16:54.390 --> 01:16:58.130
a tax -based healthcare system, your whole push

01:16:58.130 --> 01:17:04.069
is to make the nation healthy so you don't use

01:17:04.069 --> 01:17:06.890
very much tax money. So that benefits the nation.

01:17:07.029 --> 01:17:08.930
Now, it's not the case now because privatization

01:17:08.930 --> 01:17:12.060
happened. They sliced and diced the NHS. And

01:17:12.060 --> 01:17:15.439
now the Brits look like Americans almost. We

01:17:15.439 --> 01:17:17.840
have an obesity crisis that's crushing our medical

01:17:17.840 --> 01:17:21.460
system. But if you truly leave it as it is, as

01:17:21.460 --> 01:17:24.279
a tax -based health care system, then you want

01:17:24.279 --> 01:17:26.640
to make people healthy. Well, if we had a version

01:17:26.640 --> 01:17:29.159
of the VA, it doesn't have to be a national organization,

01:17:29.239 --> 01:17:32.460
but if departments or states were bound to take

01:17:32.460 --> 01:17:34.579
care of their first responders after they transition

01:17:34.579 --> 01:17:38.039
out. How would that shift the work week, fitness

01:17:38.039 --> 01:17:40.479
standards, the mental health conversation? Even

01:17:40.479 --> 01:17:44.680
if it's just some help at the state level or

01:17:44.680 --> 01:17:47.579
federal level to help with insurance premiums

01:17:47.579 --> 01:17:49.100
and that kind of stuff. I mean, you would think

01:17:49.100 --> 01:17:51.420
there'd be something. Yeah, not that I'm aware

01:17:51.420 --> 01:17:53.720
of. I mean, the pension is the carrot on the

01:17:53.720 --> 01:17:55.220
stick that's dangled in front of everyone. What

01:17:55.220 --> 01:17:57.279
about at the city level? Anything you've heard

01:17:57.279 --> 01:17:59.420
of with some cities being better than others?

01:17:59.560 --> 01:18:01.220
Well, there are. There's a handful of cities,

01:18:01.420 --> 01:18:03.600
I think, that still have managed to keep that.

01:18:04.250 --> 01:18:06.609
health insurance, but that's an anomaly in the

01:18:06.609 --> 01:18:11.310
fire service. So again, it's the same thing I've

01:18:11.310 --> 01:18:13.369
talked about. If we have a profit -based healthcare

01:18:13.369 --> 01:18:16.470
system, which we do, where's the resistance to

01:18:16.470 --> 01:18:19.449
obesity? There isn't. Companies are making trillions

01:18:19.449 --> 01:18:22.420
of dollars off. you know, dying Americans. If

01:18:22.420 --> 01:18:24.880
you have a military -industrial complex that's

01:18:24.880 --> 01:18:28.020
making all this money when we go to war, where's

01:18:28.020 --> 01:18:30.800
the resistance to war? So, you know, this is

01:18:30.800 --> 01:18:32.960
the issue. We've got such a broken system that

01:18:32.960 --> 01:18:36.319
there's nothing that incentivizes making our

01:18:36.319 --> 01:18:40.960
first responders healthy. So much of it, I think,

01:18:40.979 --> 01:18:47.050
comes back to getting Adam and their kids. To

01:18:47.050 --> 01:18:48.869
help make things, whether we're talking obesity,

01:18:49.289 --> 01:18:52.489
behavioral health, or just the understanding

01:18:52.489 --> 01:18:55.970
of the value of sleep. I mean, when I grew up,

01:18:56.250 --> 01:18:58.550
I'll get all the sleep I need when I'm dead.

01:18:58.750 --> 01:19:01.470
Like when I went to Bud's, that's what everybody

01:19:01.470 --> 01:19:03.130
said. I'll get all the sleep I need when I'm

01:19:03.130 --> 01:19:09.310
dead. And now, thanks to a lot of people working

01:19:09.310 --> 01:19:15.729
in that sleep science world, that's been helpful.

01:19:16.409 --> 01:19:22.470
It's been helpful. Absolutely. So the people

01:19:22.470 --> 01:19:25.109
listening, if they want to access, I know Wave

01:19:25.109 --> 01:19:28.369
Neuro is the main organization that's providing

01:19:28.369 --> 01:19:32.850
it here. Where? ETMS is what it's called when

01:19:32.850 --> 01:19:36.810
it's run through the states. Okay. And there's

01:19:36.810 --> 01:19:38.609
a reason for that. Don't ask me. I don't know

01:19:38.609 --> 01:19:42.989
why. But ETMS, I think the website's ETMS Florida.

01:19:43.529 --> 01:19:47.090
for those in Florida. And it's easy enough to

01:19:47.090 --> 01:19:50.590
find it if you live in Massachusetts, Virginia,

01:19:50.810 --> 01:19:54.329
Ohio, and Missouri. And again, I'm not affiliated

01:19:54.329 --> 01:19:57.689
in any way with these guys. I just firmly believe

01:19:57.689 --> 01:20:02.090
and know that it helps because it improves sleep.

01:20:02.310 --> 01:20:04.649
And if there's anything I learned when I was

01:20:04.649 --> 01:20:07.970
in that POTIF job at SOCOM, if you make sleep

01:20:07.970 --> 01:20:15.000
better, everything gets better. I had this inpatient

01:20:15.000 --> 01:20:17.340
program. It was called the PrEP program at James

01:20:17.340 --> 01:20:21.119
Haley VA Hospital. And it's inpatient, but you

01:20:21.119 --> 01:20:23.579
get to go home on the weekends type thing. And,

01:20:23.619 --> 01:20:26.800
you know, we had the pain meds, had the PTS,

01:20:27.079 --> 01:20:29.779
PTSD. We had the orthopedic issues. And they

01:20:29.779 --> 01:20:34.180
take this whole holistic picture of you, and

01:20:34.180 --> 01:20:39.239
they do MRIs. They scan everything. They look

01:20:39.239 --> 01:20:43.869
at all this stuff. And over time, the vestibular

01:20:43.869 --> 01:20:46.409
issues get a little bit better. The vision issues

01:20:46.409 --> 01:20:48.630
get a little bit better. The sleep gets a little

01:20:48.630 --> 01:20:50.810
bit better. The headaches get a little bit better.

01:20:50.869 --> 01:20:53.789
The short -term memory, all these things start

01:20:53.789 --> 01:20:56.210
getting incrementally a little bit better. So

01:20:56.210 --> 01:20:59.590
when you show up to these programs, think of

01:20:59.590 --> 01:21:03.329
it as a plate overflowing with little problems,

01:21:03.569 --> 01:21:06.949
right? And if those problems are all shrink,

01:21:07.350 --> 01:21:13.460
then you can... hold them on the plate. The most

01:21:13.460 --> 01:21:16.939
important thing on that plate that I learned

01:21:16.939 --> 01:21:19.600
in this program, thank you, Steven Scott and

01:21:19.600 --> 01:21:22.979
the whole TBI crew there, and Doc Merritt and

01:21:22.979 --> 01:21:28.520
all of them, Doc Corey, the most important thing

01:21:28.520 --> 01:21:32.279
is sleep. Because when sleep gets better, and

01:21:32.279 --> 01:21:35.239
I'm talking recovery sleep, when recovery sleep

01:21:35.239 --> 01:21:39.390
improves every single thing, that you're dealing

01:21:39.390 --> 01:21:42.949
with gets better. And if it doesn't get better,

01:21:42.989 --> 01:21:47.470
your ability to deal with it gets better. And

01:21:47.470 --> 01:21:50.069
it's, it's, it's amazing, man. It's amazing.

01:21:50.229 --> 01:21:52.050
And my, my wife's the biggest fan of the prep

01:21:52.050 --> 01:21:54.470
program that there is. Cause I came back a different,

01:21:54.489 --> 01:21:59.590
a different person, you know? Yeah. I, I, I was

01:21:59.590 --> 01:22:01.350
one of those guys that kind of poo pooed, you

01:22:01.350 --> 01:22:03.949
know, I'm good, man. I don't need any of that

01:22:03.949 --> 01:22:06.989
weird stuff. But having gone through it now,

01:22:07.229 --> 01:22:10.010
yeah, I think I'm one of their biggest fans.

01:22:10.149 --> 01:22:12.710
I'm a huge proponent of what the VA is doing

01:22:12.710 --> 01:22:16.369
to help guys lead healthy, sustainable lives.

01:22:16.630 --> 01:22:20.869
And I worry about the first responder space.

01:22:21.670 --> 01:22:25.810
And, you know, the stuff that, at least in the

01:22:25.810 --> 01:22:27.510
state of Florida, that they're talking about

01:22:27.510 --> 01:22:30.029
at the legislative level, I think it's great

01:22:30.029 --> 01:22:33.739
because I think it is going to help. a lot of

01:22:33.739 --> 01:22:35.180
people, but I think there's a lot more that can

01:22:35.180 --> 01:22:37.840
be done. Yeah. Well, I mean, what you were talking

01:22:37.840 --> 01:22:39.460
about with that program that you were part of,

01:22:39.539 --> 01:22:41.720
if you think of the Green Berets, the Thor 3

01:22:41.720 --> 01:22:46.319
program, you know, these are all completely enveloping,

01:22:46.319 --> 01:22:49.680
holistic programs to, you know, get people back

01:22:49.680 --> 01:22:51.939
to work, get people on the battlefield, or, you

01:22:51.939 --> 01:22:54.060
know, a healthy transition out if you have a

01:22:54.060 --> 01:22:56.220
career -ending injury. But whatever it is, you're,

01:22:56.260 --> 01:22:59.220
you know, you have these tools, and I think that's

01:22:59.220 --> 01:23:01.939
what we need. And we were talking at lunch today,

01:23:02.810 --> 01:23:05.010
And what's really exciting is that, you know,

01:23:05.029 --> 01:23:07.390
the work week is the, like I always call it,

01:23:07.430 --> 01:23:09.250
the herd of elephants in the room. And there

01:23:09.250 --> 01:23:11.909
hasn't been an expert on the show yet that hasn't

01:23:11.909 --> 01:23:14.510
said anything other than if you are not addressing

01:23:14.510 --> 01:23:16.989
your sleep, then your nutrition, your fitness,

01:23:17.069 --> 01:23:18.789
all these other things that people harp on about

01:23:18.789 --> 01:23:21.930
is almost pointless. Yeah. So now you take care

01:23:21.930 --> 01:23:23.750
of that, or at least the ability to sleep, the

01:23:23.750 --> 01:23:25.810
rest and recovery, fully staffed apartment. You

01:23:25.810 --> 01:23:27.329
know, now your relationships are getting better,

01:23:27.409 --> 01:23:29.350
the shame and the guilt of not spending time

01:23:29.350 --> 01:23:30.869
with your kids. I mean, all those compounding

01:23:30.869 --> 01:23:34.640
elements. But then we shift to performance because

01:23:34.640 --> 01:23:38.119
when you have strength and conditioning and sports

01:23:38.119 --> 01:23:40.399
psychologists and all these people in your community,

01:23:40.539 --> 01:23:43.399
you're trying to forge performance on the battlefield.

01:23:43.659 --> 01:23:46.020
When I have nutritionists and strength and conditionings

01:23:46.020 --> 01:23:48.760
in my community, they're just saying, let's try

01:23:48.760 --> 01:23:51.699
and get them to die less. So we're not even in

01:23:51.699 --> 01:23:53.600
the performance space. We're not even close to

01:23:53.600 --> 01:23:56.439
it. We're using the GPS that your friend did

01:23:56.439 --> 01:23:58.100
to get home to find out what does the performance

01:23:58.100 --> 01:24:00.720
even look like. So this is what's exciting is

01:24:00.720 --> 01:24:04.079
the next phase is actual performance. How can

01:24:04.079 --> 01:24:10.140
we look at breath work, the cardiorespiratory

01:24:10.140 --> 01:24:12.220
fitness, all these things. Because one of the

01:24:12.220 --> 01:24:15.020
most mind -blowing things that I had a realization

01:24:15.020 --> 01:24:18.079
of is we have a finite amount of air on our back

01:24:18.079 --> 01:24:21.319
in an IDLH environment, in a fire, for example.

01:24:22.119 --> 01:24:24.340
Yet we never talk about breath and we don't have

01:24:24.340 --> 01:24:26.939
fitness standards in our community. It's insanity.

01:24:27.319 --> 01:24:30.119
For your world, if you weren't fit and you, you

01:24:30.119 --> 01:24:32.220
know, you could basically be a couch potato and

01:24:32.220 --> 01:24:33.579
like, all right, now you've got to do your one

01:24:33.579 --> 01:24:37.489
mile underwater swim. What are you going to do,

01:24:37.550 --> 01:24:40.909
come up in the middle of the Iraqi sea and, oh,

01:24:40.909 --> 01:24:44.770
dear, I got shot? No, it's unacceptable. So now

01:24:44.770 --> 01:24:47.829
forging performance and using the same things

01:24:47.829 --> 01:24:49.489
that we talked about in the mental health tools

01:24:49.489 --> 01:24:53.750
to now be calm under pressure, to now have the

01:24:53.750 --> 01:24:56.069
ability to get into a flow state in a primary

01:24:56.069 --> 01:24:59.090
search in a burning building. So I find it super

01:24:59.090 --> 01:25:02.050
exciting because it's only going to get better

01:25:02.050 --> 01:25:04.050
and better and better, but the biggest hurdle.

01:25:04.649 --> 01:25:07.289
was the work week and reversing this recruitment

01:25:07.289 --> 01:25:10.329
crisis. And I think that boulder is moving now.

01:25:10.430 --> 01:25:12.649
So now behind that, we can put in fitness standards.

01:25:12.750 --> 01:25:15.569
We can put in addressing mental health at the

01:25:15.569 --> 01:25:17.930
front door. And all that calming stuff, super

01:25:17.930 --> 01:25:20.989
important. Like the yoga and the breath work.

01:25:21.090 --> 01:25:23.590
I used to make fun of that stuff. And then when

01:25:23.590 --> 01:25:27.369
I was in the prep program, they teach you how

01:25:27.369 --> 01:25:30.829
to get your heart rate variability, how to change

01:25:30.829 --> 01:25:34.739
it. like a live feed on a screen and learning

01:25:34.739 --> 01:25:40.500
how to increase your HRV. I mean, it's amazing.

01:25:40.680 --> 01:25:43.100
And with that, with the breath work and yoga

01:25:43.100 --> 01:25:46.300
and all that stuff, meditation, mindfulness,

01:25:46.500 --> 01:25:50.079
whatever you want to call it. Um, it actually,

01:25:50.119 --> 01:25:52.340
it actually works. You know, they have these

01:25:52.340 --> 01:25:54.920
objective tools and you can see it in front of

01:25:54.920 --> 01:25:58.399
you. working with all your sensors on stuff so

01:25:58.399 --> 01:26:02.140
all all that stuff really valuable but i i agree

01:26:02.140 --> 01:26:04.000
with you man you get you get that going to a

01:26:04.000 --> 01:26:06.479
24 72 and a lot of other things are going to

01:26:06.479 --> 01:26:08.720
get better just like when you improve the sleep

01:26:08.720 --> 01:26:12.600
100 one story you told me over lunch and i want

01:26:12.600 --> 01:26:14.340
to make sure that we talk about this firstly

01:26:14.340 --> 01:26:18.180
because i think this sadly is part of uh this

01:26:18.180 --> 01:26:21.600
whole conversation where we do have um issues

01:26:21.600 --> 01:26:25.779
in in our reproductive ability whether it's sterility

01:26:25.779 --> 01:26:28.720
whether it's you know stillbirths whether it's

01:26:28.720 --> 01:26:30.560
you know autism and down syndrome and our children

01:26:30.560 --> 01:26:32.800
passing on pediatric cancers you know when you

01:26:32.800 --> 01:26:35.960
break down a human being and then on top of that

01:26:35.960 --> 01:26:38.640
expose us to carcinogens you know there's that

01:26:38.640 --> 01:26:42.560
multi -generational physiological issue too you

01:26:42.560 --> 01:26:45.520
were talking about um a story with a young boy

01:26:45.520 --> 01:26:50.760
with autism and again this um the etms so Talk

01:26:50.760 --> 01:26:52.699
to me about what you witnessed in the world of

01:26:52.699 --> 01:26:59.859
autism with this treatment. So again, I am in

01:26:59.859 --> 01:27:02.600
no way, shape, or form an expert on autistic

01:27:02.600 --> 01:27:06.819
stuff. But when we were first exposed about 11

01:27:06.819 --> 01:27:10.239
years ago to what these guys were doing with

01:27:10.239 --> 01:27:13.199
this intrinsic alpha wave, this type of TMS,

01:27:13.500 --> 01:27:17.420
some of us from SOCOM traveled out to Newport

01:27:17.420 --> 01:27:22.449
Beach to see these guys. And, um, I remember

01:27:22.449 --> 01:27:25.630
the command surgeon was with us, uh, Captain

01:27:25.630 --> 01:27:28.489
Scott Coda. He's actually now the, uh, he's the

01:27:28.489 --> 01:27:32.289
medical officer in, uh, in, uh, Biloxi, Mississippi

01:27:32.289 --> 01:27:35.869
for the VA hospital. Yeah. He's continuing to

01:27:35.869 --> 01:27:38.729
serve in a cool way. Um, but anyway, there were

01:27:38.729 --> 01:27:40.630
a couple of us and, uh, so we're sitting in the

01:27:40.630 --> 01:27:46.369
waiting room of this place. Um, and it's, uh,

01:27:46.550 --> 01:27:49.180
in the corner, there's a bunch of kids. And there's

01:27:49.180 --> 01:27:52.560
some parents, mostly moms. And one of them comes

01:27:52.560 --> 01:27:54.560
over to us because we're kind of out of place,

01:27:54.560 --> 01:27:57.180
you know, through military guys. She's like,

01:27:57.260 --> 01:27:58.899
hey, how are you guys doing? What are you doing

01:27:58.899 --> 01:28:02.359
here? And I'm like, oh, we're here to learn and

01:28:02.359 --> 01:28:06.140
we're going to listen to a presentation and see

01:28:06.140 --> 01:28:09.760
what it is that's going on here. Why are you

01:28:09.760 --> 01:28:12.180
here? And she goes, oh, well, little Johnny,

01:28:12.260 --> 01:28:18.130
our kid has or had. she used the word had had

01:28:18.130 --> 01:28:22.590
autism. And I was like, really? And, um, and

01:28:22.590 --> 01:28:25.960
she showed a video. And the kid's playing over

01:28:25.960 --> 01:28:27.399
in the corner. I wasn't even paying attention.

01:28:27.399 --> 01:28:29.659
There's a couple of kids over there. And she

01:28:29.659 --> 01:28:31.880
shows this video of a kid. I don't know what

01:28:31.880 --> 01:28:35.260
it's called, but you know when you see a kid

01:28:35.260 --> 01:28:38.100
walking and the elbows are pinned and the wrists

01:28:38.100 --> 01:28:41.140
are kind of bent and the knees are sort of pinned

01:28:41.140 --> 01:28:44.079
and they can't. There's a name for it. I don't

01:28:44.079 --> 01:28:45.600
know what it's called. I know when it's a head

01:28:45.600 --> 01:28:47.600
injury, we call it decorticate. But yeah, that

01:28:47.600 --> 01:28:49.600
kind of flexing of everything. Kind of flex,

01:28:49.680 --> 01:28:56.479
yeah. Turns out, and you could tell just looking

01:28:56.479 --> 01:28:58.000
at her, she was well off. They were not hurting

01:28:58.000 --> 01:29:01.239
for money. She said, you know, we've tried everything

01:29:01.239 --> 01:29:03.340
for little Johnny. I'm just saying little Johnny.

01:29:03.420 --> 01:29:05.140
I can't remember the guy's name. But we've tried

01:29:05.140 --> 01:29:08.680
everything with little Johnny, and we've tried

01:29:08.680 --> 01:29:10.319
all the insurance stuff. We've tried all the

01:29:10.319 --> 01:29:12.439
cash pay stuff. This was like kind of a last

01:29:12.439 --> 01:29:15.239
-ditch effort for us. And I said, well, how's

01:29:15.239 --> 01:29:17.020
it going? She goes, I don't know. You tell me.

01:29:17.460 --> 01:29:20.539
And she calls him over, and he comes jogging

01:29:20.539 --> 01:29:24.840
over. She's like, show this man what you're working

01:29:24.840 --> 01:29:28.859
on. Okay, so James, elbows out, wrists relaxed,

01:29:29.079 --> 01:29:33.399
knees, just looked like a kid playing. And he

01:29:33.399 --> 01:29:35.960
was working on this thing where his thumb and

01:29:35.960 --> 01:29:38.220
his pointer finger, his thumb and his middle

01:29:38.220 --> 01:29:40.720
finger, and he couldn't quite get it to the ring

01:29:40.720 --> 01:29:44.199
finger or the pinky finger. And she said, yeah,

01:29:44.199 --> 01:29:46.060
that's where he is now. And I said, oh my God,

01:29:46.359 --> 01:29:50.420
how long have you been here? And she said, well,

01:29:50.439 --> 01:29:55.060
this is our third week. And then the kid said

01:29:55.060 --> 01:29:57.140
a few things and then he walked away and she

01:29:57.140 --> 01:29:58.779
said, oh, and the other thing I didn't mention

01:29:58.779 --> 01:30:04.539
is he was nonverbal. Okay, so we're just sitting

01:30:04.539 --> 01:30:06.659
there. We're three SOCOM guys. We're just sitting

01:30:06.659 --> 01:30:09.460
there going, what the hell did we just walk into?

01:30:10.020 --> 01:30:13.260
And then we went in and we took the brief and

01:30:13.260 --> 01:30:15.260
the presentation and I just kind of sat there

01:30:15.260 --> 01:30:19.760
with my jaw open. But we had a PhD guy and a

01:30:19.760 --> 01:30:22.239
physician and they were just asking a ton of

01:30:22.239 --> 01:30:28.239
questions. Then we went back to SOCOM, told General

01:30:28.239 --> 01:30:31.300
Votel about it, because part of the presentation

01:30:31.300 --> 01:30:34.960
they gave us was what the benefits they were

01:30:34.960 --> 01:30:38.340
seeing in the veteran space as well, primarily

01:30:38.340 --> 01:30:41.220
with sleep, but a lot of stuff with anxiety and

01:30:41.220 --> 01:30:44.960
those kind of things. And to General Votel's,

01:30:44.960 --> 01:30:49.460
Joe Votel's credit, he said, hey, let's work

01:30:49.460 --> 01:30:54.789
with the pros up in... Bethesda and the uniformed

01:30:54.789 --> 01:30:58.949
services university of health sciences. Um, let's

01:30:58.949 --> 01:31:01.329
get a study going. Let's see if we can bring

01:31:01.329 --> 01:31:05.289
this out to be more available to, to our force.

01:31:05.850 --> 01:31:09.310
And, uh, that's what we did. And, uh, you know,

01:31:09.329 --> 01:31:12.409
two years later, I retired and went to work at

01:31:12.409 --> 01:31:15.770
Katsu and I kind of lost track of it. Um, but

01:31:15.770 --> 01:31:20.590
now I see. It's just so good to see that now

01:31:20.590 --> 01:31:24.390
after all the evidence -based studies and all

01:31:24.390 --> 01:31:27.229
the stuff, it's just good to see that it's now

01:31:27.229 --> 01:31:31.250
being used as a force of good. They're still

01:31:31.250 --> 01:31:34.770
treating autistic kids, but what's happening

01:31:34.770 --> 01:31:37.390
with the program now is all about veterans first

01:31:37.390 --> 01:31:44.789
responders. It kind of blew me away. There's

01:31:44.789 --> 01:31:47.229
other stories I could bore you with on this stuff.

01:31:47.449 --> 01:31:52.770
But yeah, it's amazing. It's so important to

01:31:52.770 --> 01:31:57.909
hear, though. I had, oh my goodness, Charlotte

01:31:57.909 --> 01:32:02.829
Page Figge. So Charlotte Figge, if you ever heard

01:32:02.829 --> 01:32:06.430
Charlotte's web as reference to CBD, Page was

01:32:06.430 --> 01:32:09.630
Charlotte's mom. And Charlotte was born, she

01:32:09.630 --> 01:32:12.859
was a twin. And she was born... With this issue,

01:32:12.920 --> 01:32:14.979
I think she was nonverbal as well, but when she

01:32:14.979 --> 01:32:19.300
was infant slash toddler, she was basically dying.

01:32:19.739 --> 01:32:22.319
And again, they'd thrown all the things at her,

01:32:22.380 --> 01:32:27.539
all the latest, greatest drugs that were being

01:32:27.539 --> 01:32:29.560
studied, and all these things, and nothing was

01:32:29.560 --> 01:32:32.140
working. And she had kind of found her way into

01:32:32.140 --> 01:32:35.600
the literature of CBD, and that was very, very

01:32:35.600 --> 01:32:39.439
early. And she got this one company to kind of

01:32:39.439 --> 01:32:42.220
put together this CBD mixture and they put it

01:32:42.220 --> 01:32:44.659
in her feeding tube. And she was literally in

01:32:44.659 --> 01:32:46.239
palliative care at this point. They were just

01:32:46.239 --> 01:32:48.319
waiting for her to die. And she did a complete

01:32:48.319 --> 01:32:51.060
180. Really? But again, who would have thought?

01:32:51.100 --> 01:32:53.020
Modern medicine said, well, if this clinical

01:32:53.020 --> 01:32:55.380
trial and these drugs are the best, if it doesn't

01:32:55.380 --> 01:32:59.020
work, then, you know, shoulder shrug. And who

01:32:59.020 --> 01:33:01.800
would have thought that a magnet by the head

01:33:01.800 --> 01:33:04.699
or... part of the hemp plant would actually be

01:33:04.699 --> 01:33:07.479
the thing that would save a child or turn a child's

01:33:07.479 --> 01:33:11.739
ability around. So, you know, it's so powerful

01:33:11.739 --> 01:33:15.119
to hear these stories because the film, I mean,

01:33:15.119 --> 01:33:16.739
the show that I was telling you about that I'm

01:33:16.739 --> 01:33:19.119
going to make, one of the parts of the other

01:33:19.119 --> 01:33:22.260
part, which will be the documentary part, is

01:33:22.260 --> 01:33:24.520
just going to showcase, amongst other things,

01:33:24.739 --> 01:33:26.979
all of these different treatments. So the person

01:33:26.979 --> 01:33:30.340
watching isn't told, well, this is the thing.

01:33:30.829 --> 01:33:32.550
Because if the thing doesn't work for you, well,

01:33:32.590 --> 01:33:34.189
then where's the hope? You're like, well, I'm

01:33:34.189 --> 01:33:36.270
broken then. Well, my child's broken and we're

01:33:36.270 --> 01:33:38.329
never going to be able to fix it. But when you're

01:33:38.329 --> 01:33:40.170
exposed to all these different things, maybe

01:33:40.170 --> 01:33:43.449
ETMS, maybe CBD, whatever the thing is on that

01:33:43.449 --> 01:33:46.609
particular example, maybe that's the missing

01:33:46.609 --> 01:33:48.390
link. Maybe that's the piece that you didn't

01:33:48.390 --> 01:33:50.810
realize was there. So whether it's a first responder

01:33:50.810 --> 01:33:53.770
or a veteran and their mental health or hopefully

01:33:53.770 --> 01:33:56.289
healing from a TBI, whether it's an autistic

01:33:56.289 --> 01:33:59.779
child. What a beautiful story to hear. So I think

01:33:59.779 --> 01:34:01.579
it's important for people listening. I know there's

01:34:01.579 --> 01:34:03.300
a lot of first responders out there that do have

01:34:03.300 --> 01:34:07.640
children with autism. Yeah, well, thanks for

01:34:07.640 --> 01:34:10.600
bringing that up. Yeah, I just, you know, if

01:34:10.600 --> 01:34:13.420
we could do nothing else, you know, and I'm just

01:34:13.420 --> 01:34:16.859
thinking in my current role at the Florida Chamber,

01:34:17.079 --> 01:34:20.539
if we did nothing else other than getting kids

01:34:20.539 --> 01:34:25.579
moving and sleeping better, you're making, you

01:34:25.579 --> 01:34:28.630
know, we'd be making. huge leaps and bounds improvements

01:34:28.630 --> 01:34:32.689
in the future workforce and, you know, quality

01:34:32.689 --> 01:34:35.590
of life and all that kind of stuff. I will say

01:34:35.590 --> 01:34:37.529
it's a little overwhelming, you know, the, the,

01:34:37.529 --> 01:34:40.430
this director of the health council, cause there's

01:34:40.430 --> 01:34:44.890
so much that falls under the term health. And,

01:34:45.069 --> 01:34:49.890
um, my, my approach to it so far has been, Hey,

01:34:49.930 --> 01:34:52.439
let, let's prioritize. what, what we want to

01:34:52.439 --> 01:34:55.479
do as a team and, uh, and let's get after one

01:34:55.479 --> 01:34:58.500
or two really, really valuable things. And I

01:34:58.500 --> 01:35:04.260
think movement and sleep for, for the youth is

01:35:04.260 --> 01:35:09.779
hugely important. I think, um, helping, um, in

01:35:09.779 --> 01:35:13.079
the veteran first responder space, whether it's

01:35:13.079 --> 01:35:16.159
sleep or otherwise is hugely important. Even

01:35:16.159 --> 01:35:19.340
if it's just sharing. current resources that

01:35:19.340 --> 01:35:20.979
are out there. There's so much good stuff out

01:35:20.979 --> 01:35:23.039
there. It's just hard to navigate through some

01:35:23.039 --> 01:35:25.220
of it. So maybe one of the things we'll do is

01:35:25.220 --> 01:35:29.520
help people navigate through that space. Have

01:35:29.520 --> 01:35:33.760
you heard of that 988 versus 911 to 988? Yeah,

01:35:33.760 --> 01:35:36.199
the suicide number. Is that right? Yeah, you

01:35:36.199 --> 01:35:38.699
know, I didn't really know anything about it.

01:35:38.779 --> 01:35:41.199
I went out to lunch with somebody the other day,

01:35:41.220 --> 01:35:43.300
and I parked, and there's a placard right in

01:35:43.300 --> 01:35:45.600
front of me, you know, 988. And I was like, huh.

01:35:46.260 --> 01:35:49.119
So I dialed it. Just curious, you know. It was

01:35:49.119 --> 01:35:51.619
like, oh, this will be part of the workday. And

01:35:51.619 --> 01:35:54.039
I dialed in. You go through this quick phone

01:35:54.039 --> 01:35:56.279
tree. Are you a veteran or no? Yeah, I'm a veteran.

01:35:56.800 --> 01:36:00.899
Dude, in 20 seconds, I had a live person, a veteran,

01:36:01.060 --> 01:36:04.340
speaking with me on the phone, asking what service

01:36:04.340 --> 01:36:06.680
I was. And if he wasn't the right guy, they'd

01:36:06.680 --> 01:36:09.300
find somebody. I was like, hey, man, I'm good.

01:36:09.439 --> 01:36:11.939
This is non -emergency. I'm just testing it out.

01:36:12.409 --> 01:36:14.510
I work at the Florida Chamber of Commerce. And

01:36:14.510 --> 01:36:16.449
he wasn't even in the state. He was in another

01:36:16.449 --> 01:36:21.210
state. But that program, I haven't tested it

01:36:21.210 --> 01:36:24.569
if you're a non -veteran, but I was pretty impressed,

01:36:24.649 --> 01:36:28.069
man. It's pretty cool. And they have resources

01:36:28.069 --> 01:36:34.550
at the ready to drive you in towards via the

01:36:34.550 --> 01:36:36.949
phone calls. That's good to hear. I've never

01:36:36.949 --> 01:36:39.880
had anyone talk about Ashley. I didn't even know

01:36:39.880 --> 01:36:42.939
what it was. I guess it used to be a different

01:36:42.939 --> 01:36:45.220
number, and they changed it to kind of have a

01:36:45.220 --> 01:36:50.960
rebranding, a nationwide rebranding of it. Yeah,

01:36:51.000 --> 01:36:54.100
pretty cool, pretty cool stuff. Well, one more

01:36:54.100 --> 01:36:56.500
thing before we close out. You just kind of reminded

01:36:56.500 --> 01:36:58.300
me, if you're talking about a statewide initiative

01:36:58.300 --> 01:37:02.060
to make a huge difference in our children's health,

01:37:02.340 --> 01:37:05.819
did you ever see that show Jamie Oliver, the

01:37:05.819 --> 01:37:10.359
British chef, trying to, overhaul what we serve

01:37:10.359 --> 01:37:13.680
in our schools. I definitely know who Jamie Oliver,

01:37:13.920 --> 01:37:17.100
you know, I, I've definitely seen some of his

01:37:17.100 --> 01:37:20.680
stuff, but I don't know the status of the overhaul,

01:37:20.680 --> 01:37:22.300
the food and schools and all that. How did it

01:37:22.300 --> 01:37:24.659
go? So I got a, I got a followup cause I know

01:37:24.659 --> 01:37:27.899
it was initially in the UK and at least initially

01:37:27.899 --> 01:37:30.420
it was a success because I think again, we're

01:37:30.420 --> 01:37:32.220
talking about false economy and we were talking

01:37:32.220 --> 01:37:34.560
earlier, you know, a lot of the way we don't

01:37:34.560 --> 01:37:37.909
need more taxpayers money. We need to, You know,

01:37:37.930 --> 01:37:41.090
be proactive. And so, for example, you want to

01:37:41.090 --> 01:37:42.989
free up money in the U .S. to address the obesity

01:37:42.989 --> 01:37:44.949
crisis. There's trillions of dollars available

01:37:44.949 --> 01:37:47.710
there. And then, you know, maybe stop starting

01:37:47.710 --> 01:37:51.350
wars all over the place is another one. You're

01:37:51.350 --> 01:37:58.310
so subtle. But from what I understand, there

01:37:58.310 --> 01:38:01.449
was also... You know, it was cost effective because,

01:38:01.550 --> 01:38:03.689
you know, real food was served in schools for

01:38:03.689 --> 01:38:05.470
the longest time till these big corporations

01:38:05.470 --> 01:38:07.489
kind of muscled their way in. And all of a sudden

01:38:07.489 --> 01:38:10.470
now we're serving processed food and these shiny,

01:38:10.510 --> 01:38:13.670
you know, Cisco trucks roll into every school

01:38:13.670 --> 01:38:16.949
that I've ever seen. You know, so that's a monopoly

01:38:16.949 --> 01:38:19.500
basically on our school food. So it would be

01:38:19.500 --> 01:38:21.100
interesting because I know he did it here in

01:38:21.100 --> 01:38:24.279
America, had success. The kids loved the food.

01:38:24.340 --> 01:38:26.880
The people, you know, working in the dining hall

01:38:26.880 --> 01:38:29.800
after, again, the jarring transition started

01:38:29.800 --> 01:38:31.600
to enjoy it because they weren't just serving

01:38:31.600 --> 01:38:33.539
slop. You know, they were actually creative.

01:38:34.359 --> 01:38:36.800
And it was a success in this American school.

01:38:36.899 --> 01:38:40.020
But then shortly after. People dismantled it,

01:38:40.060 --> 01:38:42.140
and I don't know why. But that would be another

01:38:42.140 --> 01:38:46.079
conversation. Do you have a contact with... I

01:38:46.079 --> 01:38:47.579
don't. There's someone I want to get on the show,

01:38:47.600 --> 01:38:50.340
but he's... Tough to get. Yeah, well -known in

01:38:50.340 --> 01:38:54.500
the UK. But I'll see if I can... My sister does

01:38:54.500 --> 01:38:56.859
a lot of work with the BBC, so maybe there's

01:38:56.859 --> 01:38:58.920
a possibility to get hold of someone there. But

01:38:58.920 --> 01:39:00.880
I think that would be phenomenal because that's

01:39:00.880 --> 01:39:03.279
the next conversation. Because a lot of these

01:39:03.279 --> 01:39:07.409
kids, if they're in certain demographics... aren't

01:39:07.409 --> 01:39:10.210
even exposed to what food is, where it's grown,

01:39:10.310 --> 01:39:13.689
what it looks like, how to cook. So putting that

01:39:13.689 --> 01:39:15.569
back in. One of the things that Chamber's really

01:39:15.569 --> 01:39:21.970
good at in Florida is if a pilot program is used

01:39:21.970 --> 01:39:27.489
as a proof of concept, and it's successful, and

01:39:27.489 --> 01:39:30.649
it's backed up by data, The Chamber's really

01:39:30.649 --> 01:39:33.689
good at getting that information to the right

01:39:33.689 --> 01:39:37.130
people so that maybe not bringing in more money,

01:39:37.189 --> 01:39:39.609
but reallocating of resources towards something

01:39:39.609 --> 01:39:42.189
that's been proven or is being shown through

01:39:42.189 --> 01:39:45.550
a pilot program to be very, very effective. Something

01:39:45.550 --> 01:39:49.029
like that could definitely fall in that category.

01:39:49.310 --> 01:39:51.909
That could be pretty cool. Maybe if somebody's

01:39:51.909 --> 01:39:54.789
listening, they'll reach out. Absolutely. Well,

01:39:54.810 --> 01:39:56.829
I think this is what, you know, we talked about

01:39:56.829 --> 01:40:00.399
the Venn diagram. over 1100 episodes now and

01:40:00.399 --> 01:40:02.819
so congratulations man that's amazing thank you

01:40:02.819 --> 01:40:05.619
so where that overlap is is the truth you know

01:40:05.619 --> 01:40:08.100
in all these conversations yeah all these people

01:40:08.100 --> 01:40:10.020
of all walks of life even different countries

01:40:10.020 --> 01:40:13.140
and they're all saying some things the same that's

01:40:13.140 --> 01:40:15.140
where we know you know there's a real true north

01:40:15.140 --> 01:40:19.340
there and it seems like a lot of the problems

01:40:19.340 --> 01:40:22.800
that we have You don't need to innovate. You

01:40:22.800 --> 01:40:25.420
need to actually dismantle and go back to how

01:40:25.420 --> 01:40:28.119
we moved 100 years ago, how we ate 100 years

01:40:28.119 --> 01:40:32.479
ago, how we communed 100 years ago. So it's not

01:40:32.479 --> 01:40:35.319
hacks and all this stuff and latest innovation

01:40:35.319 --> 01:40:37.539
and more money. It's like the reverse. And I

01:40:37.539 --> 01:40:39.899
think this is the thing with the schools. You

01:40:39.899 --> 01:40:41.800
know, if you went back to serving real food,

01:40:41.880 --> 01:40:44.380
if you went back to recesses and PE programs

01:40:44.380 --> 01:40:46.619
and things that were an integral part of our

01:40:46.619 --> 01:40:50.199
education, you know, 50 years ago. You would

01:40:50.199 --> 01:40:51.960
reverse a lot of these issues. The schools and

01:40:51.960 --> 01:40:54.460
states that are brave enough to say no phones

01:40:54.460 --> 01:40:58.500
in schools. That just takes guts. If you implement

01:40:58.500 --> 01:41:02.560
it, you implement it. Movement, food, sleep.

01:41:03.500 --> 01:41:06.239
Connection. Connection, social connectedness.

01:41:06.239 --> 01:41:09.479
Exactly. That's not a big price tag on any of

01:41:09.479 --> 01:41:11.819
those. It's really, like you said, it's a reallocation

01:41:11.819 --> 01:41:13.859
of funds and the same in the fire service. I

01:41:13.859 --> 01:41:15.939
like what you said. It's deconstructing some

01:41:15.939 --> 01:41:19.489
things. Yeah. Yeah, which turns into a unique

01:41:19.489 --> 01:41:21.529
fight sometimes if you're talking about pharmaceutical

01:41:21.529 --> 01:41:24.449
or big food. Exactly. But that's the problem.

01:41:24.550 --> 01:41:26.229
We're talking about the nation's health. What's

01:41:26.229 --> 01:41:29.029
more important, their profit margin or our children's

01:41:29.029 --> 01:41:33.489
health? So like we said earlier, when you put

01:41:33.489 --> 01:41:36.689
the company ahead of your own family, then there's

01:41:36.689 --> 01:41:41.310
a disconnection. Yeah. All right. Well, before

01:41:41.310 --> 01:41:43.569
we wrap up, is there anything else that you want

01:41:43.569 --> 01:41:51.609
to discuss? What were we just talking about with

01:41:51.609 --> 01:41:54.850
Palm Beach County? Because we were just down

01:41:54.850 --> 01:41:57.750
there last week. Yeah, well, they have just announced.

01:41:57.770 --> 01:42:01.569
Oh, they're one of the 2472? Yeah, so they officially

01:42:01.569 --> 01:42:03.850
announced it. Is that countywide? Yes, all the

01:42:03.850 --> 01:42:06.649
fire service. You know, we were just down there

01:42:06.649 --> 01:42:09.130
with Health Care District, Palm Beach County.

01:42:09.850 --> 01:42:13.989
And I think all the public school nurses there

01:42:13.989 --> 01:42:19.090
are employees of HCD Palm Beach County. And they're

01:42:19.090 --> 01:42:23.329
doing some pretty innovative stuff. We went to

01:42:23.329 --> 01:42:29.369
one of their clinics and it's whole person health

01:42:29.369 --> 01:42:32.810
or integrative health, integrative medicine.

01:42:32.909 --> 01:42:37.029
So you could go for dental and. 15 minutes later,

01:42:37.109 --> 01:42:39.970
be getting a mammogram and then have a counselor

01:42:39.970 --> 01:42:44.029
talking with you and get, um, uh, go to their

01:42:44.029 --> 01:42:46.770
food pharmacy to have some good, clean, wholesome

01:42:46.770 --> 01:42:49.069
food. If you're a type two diabetic, like they

01:42:49.069 --> 01:42:52.210
have all of this stuff in one location. It's

01:42:52.210 --> 01:42:56.109
very, very cool and innovative for the state

01:42:56.109 --> 01:43:00.130
of Florida. Um, so anyway, kind of shout out,

01:43:00.170 --> 01:43:02.170
I guess, to Palm beach County and the healthcare

01:43:02.170 --> 01:43:05.600
district, Palm beach County for all their. And

01:43:05.600 --> 01:43:09.859
now to hear that the fire service in that county

01:43:09.859 --> 01:43:13.359
is going to a 24 -72, I just think that is so

01:43:13.359 --> 01:43:18.000
important and valuable for the behavioral health

01:43:18.000 --> 01:43:22.779
and emotional wellness of our first responders

01:43:22.779 --> 01:43:25.039
and their families. It's so cool to hear. And

01:43:25.039 --> 01:43:28.939
I think a lot of that comes from the platform

01:43:28.939 --> 01:43:33.119
that you have created. with this and uh i think

01:43:33.119 --> 01:43:35.800
that i'm just really appreciative of it and uh

01:43:35.800 --> 01:43:38.960
grateful for you doing all this man appreciate

01:43:38.960 --> 01:43:42.140
you letting me be on yeah well thank you i mean

01:43:42.140 --> 01:43:44.699
the Like I said, the feeling is mutual. I always

01:43:44.699 --> 01:43:46.399
tell people this podcast would be nothing. It

01:43:46.399 --> 01:43:48.479
would be an Englishman just yapping on his own

01:43:48.479 --> 01:43:51.000
in the microphone if it wasn't for all the guests.

01:43:51.180 --> 01:43:53.880
So this is an accumulation of all this knowledge

01:43:53.880 --> 01:43:56.619
and all these stories. And so I want to thank

01:43:56.619 --> 01:43:59.460
you as well. I mean, every single person that

01:43:59.460 --> 01:44:03.279
comes on adds another layer to someone to have

01:44:03.279 --> 01:44:05.939
the hope. of making their life a little bit better.

01:44:06.000 --> 01:44:08.619
And then, um, you know, the, the tools, you know,

01:44:08.640 --> 01:44:10.699
the ability in this conversation with all the

01:44:10.699 --> 01:44:13.460
things you've talked about, including ETMS, it's

01:44:13.460 --> 01:44:15.479
invaluable. So I want to thank you so much, not

01:44:15.479 --> 01:44:17.859
only from driving all the way from Tampa to here

01:44:17.859 --> 01:44:19.920
in Ocala, but also for being so generous with

01:44:19.920 --> 01:44:22.100
your time and come on the behind the shield podcast.

01:44:22.159 --> 01:44:25.340
And we must be done because my coffee is empty

01:44:25.340 --> 01:44:28.720
and Ember just woke up a beautiful golden retriever.

01:44:28.880 --> 01:44:31.420
So I guess we're done. not going retriever you're

01:44:31.420 --> 01:44:34.739
you're a gentleman thinking of my dog bug thanks

01:44:34.739 --> 01:44:35.020
brother