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I'll spell that to you because it's not as you
think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome
to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always,
my name is James Geering and this week it is
my absolute honor to welcome on the show fitness
trainer, stuntman, and actor Aaron Williamson.
Now in this conversation we discuss a host of
topics from his journey into the military, his
transition into the world of coaching, becoming
a technical advisor on military films, his transition
into the world of stunts and performance, his
powerful mental health story, and so much more.
Now, before we get to this incredible conversation,
as I say every week, please just take a moment,
go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe
to the show, leave feedback, and leave a rating.
Every single five -star rating truly does elevate
this podcast, therefore making it easier for
others to find. And this is a free library of
well over 1 ,100 episodes now. So all I ask in
return is that you help share these incredible
men and women's stories so I can get them to
every single person on planet Earth who needs
to hear them. So with that being said, I introduce
to you Aaron... Williamson. Enjoy. Aaron, I want
to start by saying two things. Firstly, thank
you to our mutual friend Christian for making
this connection. And secondly, to welcome you
onto the Behind the Shield podcast today. I appreciate
that. Yeah, Christian's a good guy. I was just
down in San Antonio and did a MRF with those
guys. Great crew. Yeah, it's a brutal workout.
I'm assuming it was probably hot as balls there
that day too. Yeah, it was like, it was just
starting to creep out. That sun was coming out
pretty hard right at the end. We started pretty
early though. Yeah. Good idea. All right. Well,
very first question, where on planet earth are
we finding you today? These days I'm in Scottsdale,
Arizona. Beautiful. Yeah. Well, that's hot, but
it's that dry heat. So I'll take it over the
humidity any day from the South. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. We're from, I'm living in Ocala, Florida
now. So it's been like 106, 107 with that humidity.
Yeah, brutal. When Floridians are saying that
it's hot, then, you know, it's really freaking
hot. Yeah, I'm from Daytona Beach, Florida. There
we go. Down the road then. Oh, yeah. All right.
Well, let's start there then. So tell me where
you were born and tell me a little bit about
your family dynamic, what your parents did, how
many siblings. I grew up in Daytona Beach, Florida
when it was party central. You know, got in trouble,
did all the stuff you're not supposed to do.
Just a normal poor family. I mean, that's really
it. There's not a whole lot to say. My childhood
just wasn't that great, which is what led me
down the path to the Marine Corps. So Marine
Corps is my salvation. It saved me. What did
your dad and or mother do as far as careers?
Nothing. Nothing. Just mediocre work for the
city, fast food. Now, this is what's really interesting
about these conversations is when you talk about
our upbringing, we more often than not will look
at parents maybe, but never beyond that. When
you look at the kind of upbringing that your
parents were exposed to that maybe created the
childhood that you had, were there any kind of
common denominators when you went back another
generation? Honestly, I don't even know, man.
I'm not very good at my family history. My relationship
with my family is something that, you know, I'm
still working on today. It wasn't that great
for a long time. I joined the Marine Corps right
out of high school and I disappeared for a long
time. I've only been home a handful of times.
What about sports? What were you playing during
the school ages? Everything, football, baseball,
volleyball, track, anything to keep myself from
getting in trouble. And I heard you mention on
the Medivac podcast about being a smaller kid
when you were younger, which if people saw you
now, it would be surprising for them. Yeah, when
I graduated Marine Corps boot camp, I was 160
pounds, which I think is probably the lightest
I've ever been at 6 '3". But growing up as a
kid, man, I was really skinny. I started putting
on a little bit of size in high school just from
playing sports and eating. You know, doing stupid
drugs gives you the munchies. And what about
career aspirations? Again, when you were younger,
what were you dreaming of becoming then prior
to the military? Nothing. No idea. I had no aspirations,
no goals, no role models, no mentors, no guide,
no guidance, no plan, no nothing. So this is
always, I think, a really important conversation,
especially, I would argue, for... us looking
how to move forward and improve you know the
environment of the next generation is the people
that have come on here and there's been an absence
of role models whether parents were there and
just not involved whether they were you know
they left whatever the thing was they passed
away where The difference between someone staying
on a bad path and ending up prison, dead, overdose,
whatever, and turning that corner were the positive
role models. Now, prior to that, you mentioned
about straying into some negative areas. What
was the environment that you grew up in as far
as the pull from that negative role model? I
don't know what you mean by that. So, for example,
if a young kid grows up and there's a gang culture,
that's all they know. That's their environment.
it's easier to be pulled in that direction when
there's a positive mentor, like I'm assuming
for you, you know, within the Marine Corps itself,
then it tends to steer young people back onto
the right path. But the environment that you
grew up in, were you kind of immersed in that
kind of, as you said, the drugs, the negative
side initially? My family started getting a divorce
when I was in middle school and everything just
fell apart. I started hanging out with the wrong
crowd. You hang out with the wrong crowd, you
get involved with the wrong stuff. And that's
really it. Gotcha. All right. Well then let's,
so you're kind of, you're, you're lost, you're
wayward. You've played a multitude of sports.
What even made you think about the Marine Corps
and talk to me about the on -ramp experience
from, for you from having no role models to being
thrust into such a rigid discipline. It saved
my life, and it was everything I needed. There
was a guy on the varsity football team who graduated
high school and joined the Marine Corps. And
prior to joining, he was just a big meathead
dude like Goldberg from WWE. When I saw him come
back from Marine Corps boot camp, he was a completely
different person. I didn't even recognize him.
Everything about him was just different, and
I knew that's what I needed, and that's what
brought me into the ranks. What about prior to
this, because we're going to obviously get into
personal training, what did your fitness, weight
training, strength conditioning programs look
like prior to the Marine Corps? There was none.
No structure, no nothing. Just did whatever I
thought was right. Looking back on it now, I
don't even know what I was doing. You hear that
a lot. Some, and again, not tarring everyone
with the same brush, but you hear a lot of high
school programs, the strength and conditioning
side is often done by people that maybe understand
the game, but they don't understand the training
element. Yeah, it was just train. There was no
program or really much of anything. Gotcha. Did
you feel physically prepared for Marine Boot
Camp? No. I had no idea what I was getting into.
So what was it that allowed you to succeed? Because
you obviously went through it. So as you kind
of were immersed in this new arena, who were
the people that steered you in the right way?
And then what was it that allowed you to progress
when some people did ring the bell? I don't know,
man. Look. My whole childhood leading up to the
Marine Corps, I really don't remember much of
it. I try, like I can recall small details. Joining
the Marine Corps, I just knew I was trying to
escape becoming the person I didn't want to be.
And that's really what it came down to. I got
on the yellow footprints. I knew I was in a different
world. The drill instructors were doing their
thing, yelling and spitting and all this stuff.
And I knew I was in an environment where I had
no idea what was going to happen next, but I
was open to it. And with an open mind, it really
broke me down to the studs and it kind of forced
me to rebuild my foundation on discipline. And
that was the new chapter. That was the new me.
That was my first transformation going through
Marine Corps boot camp. I didn't know what to
expect. I thought it was going to be more physical,
but it was really more mental than anything.
And that mental... That mental stress, that mental
chaos was what took me to a place where I was
able to, I think, really operate my best. Even
to this day, I operate the best in chaos. I don't
like chaos, but for some reason, I just have
an affinity to be able to adapt to it and thrive
in it. And what about as far as the MOS, like
as you progress through boot camp, what was the
area of the Marines that you were focused on
at that point? Well, ultimately, I wanted to
become part of force recon for the Marines. But
when I got to my first duty station, they just
my platoon commander was not like he was just
not letting me go. It was a. You know, I was
with 1st Battalion, 2nd Marines. I got to my
first duty station in the end of 1999. And it
was like a bunch of bad news bears. So I was
like, you know, me and my buddy from Daytona
Beach, we ended up at the same unit together.
And we just kind of fed off each other. So we
were squared away, you know, shining our boots
every day, ironing the camis, going to the gym
every day, eating clean. just wanting to be the
picture -perfect Marine because we were just,
there was a lot of pride in it. Got promoted
to a team leader as soon as I got there, which
didn't bring much love from the crew to have
some boot Marine, you know, in charge of an NCO.
That doesn't go down too well. So infantry ended
up being where I got stuck. And I say I got stuck
because... It's what put a bad taste in my mouth
from the beginning is having bad leadership can
really ruin the experience for you. And I think
that's across the board in every industry. There's
bad leaders everywhere. And part of what I do
now is making sure that I can use my past experiences
and life experiences to help people not be bad
leaders because it can literally ruin someone's
life. This is something that we see in the first
responder professions. You get these people that
progress through the ranks that just have no
business being there. And they have all the pieces
of paper. They were able to climb the rungs.
But as far as actual leadership, as far as managing
individuals, as far as being firm when you need
to and then vulnerable when you need to as a
leader, there's a complete absence of that. And
I think I would argue humility was probably the
thing that was lacking. When you reflect back
now at that moment and then any other leadership
kind of challenges that you've had through the
last 20 years, what are the mistakes that these
poor leaders are making? And then what are the
attributes that you see in the good leaders that
you've worked alongside? I think there's a big
misconception about leadership that it has to
be loud. You got to be the one that everyone
notices because you're the loudest. And I think
it should be the opposite. Being a good leader
is about being there for others in the worst
times, in the dark times, in the chaos, and to
be able to have that trust in someone who's not
going to throw you under the bus. For me as a
leader, I was very stern, but quiet. I was loud
when I needed to be loud. You know, other than
that, there was no reason to be loud all the
time. And I think that's a big issue today is
leaders feel like they need to be loud and seen
and heard. And it's just not the case. Absolutely.
When you were in that branch, did you ever come
across Major James Capers or his story at least?
I'm somewhat familiar with it. Recon Marines,
Vietnam era. He was wounded. Very long story
short, he got all his men on a helicopter. He
jumped off because it was too heavy. They dragged
his ass back on again. They managed to take off,
but he was African -American and probably one
of the Medal of Honor recipients that was denied
that. medal because of skin color at that point
so even to this day they're trying to trying
to still get the medal of honor for him but i
had him on i went up to to south carolina a while
ago and interviewed him as home but definitely
one of the legends of your your branch there
that's amazing yeah general i was with general
pace for a while the pentagon he had talked about
him a little bit yeah incredible man Well, you
mentioned about wanting to get into recon. How
did that end up transitioning to the kind of
funeral detail side? When I was in Okinawa, Japan
on one of my pumps, my company first sergeant
kept talking about it. And I was like, you're
telling me that there's a section where you can
lift weights and carry caskets and represent
the Marine Corps? I want to be part of that.
So he started making some calls. And when I got
back from that deployment, they actually came
down to Camp Lejeune and strength tested me.
I didn't pass it. And I was just planning on
moving on. I was getting ready to go to squad
leader school. And before I was ready to punch
out the career planner. called me into his office
and said, Hey, when do you want to take leave?
And I was like, what are you talking about? He's
like, you got cut orders to, uh, to DC to be
a part of the body bearers. So it's a checklist.
You know, the strength is just one piece. The
strength can always be built. It's the, it's
the type of person you are, the character, your
values, your morals, how you carry yourself,
how you present yourself, um, how responsible
you are. All those details go into it because
when you're laying someone to rest, That's a
huge moment. And I call it my most humble duty
because when you lay someone to rest, it's the
last image a family is going to have of that
loved one. So it was a very surreal experience
to have been a part of that detail. And I ended
up becoming the section leader. So we trained
hard. We trained heavy. We trained for perfection
all the time. Now, you mentioned Okinawa before
we kind of go a little bit further into that.
One of the things that's really interesting is
that Okinawa is one of the only blue zones on
planet Earth. And if we're talking about health,
nutrition, etc., it has, I think even Japan now,
it's extended through the whole island, has the
highest population of people, 100 or older. than
the planet. And it's always interesting to hear
people that were stationed in Okinawa or just
happen to live in Okinawa as far as the observations
of the culture, the food, the exercise level
that creates such longevity in those populations.
So do you remember kind of any of those kind
of elements when you were stationed there as
far as the Okinawan people themselves? Well,
I was on Camp Schwab and... We really didn't
leave base that much. We were just a bunch of
grunts. And there was a lot of protests all the
time outside the base. So I don't think we were
necessarily wanted there. So it's not like we
were just out in town all the time. So I don't
have a whole lot of memory of being out in town.
Although I remember when I was, the people were
very nice. I was very tall, comparatively speaking.
The food was... incredible. I really enjoyed
Okinawa a lot. We were on Orwan Beach. I don't
know if you're familiar with Camp Schwab. It's
where Amphibious Recon is. But I mean, it was
just, you know, whenever we had libo or off time,
just be on the water snorkeling and swimming
and lifting weights and staying out of the jungle.
i lived in japan for 15 months and i remember
and i'm only six foot but standing on on the
subway and i could see over almost everyone's
head and like this doesn't happen at home normally
i'm kind of like average but but yeah it's the
leaving the even some of the well not some even
a lot of the buildings walking into you got to
you know duck your head they're not built for
tall people no even the clothes yeah this guy's
been a different size completely All right. Well,
then going back to the funeral day detail, correct
me if I'm wrong, that kind of straddled 9 -11.
Is that right? Yeah, it did. So we were, we were,
I remember when the funeral started picking up
with a lot of the service members coming in from
being killed in action. And out of Arlington
National Cemetery, at one point when this all
started, Section 60 was just a bare piece of
land, just grass, maybe a couple of tombstones.
And it was just filling up by the day. I mean,
it was unreal to see how quickly these headstones
were coming up and how many funerals were being
done there. And especially to even burying people
that you knew maybe from boot camp or from another
unit or something like that. So, you know, it's
definitely put a lot into perspective. How did
you process that? Because I've had a few people
on, sadly, one gold star father who lost his
son and he was a naval, you know, the same detail
as you bringing the caskets home. And, you know,
the weight of that, the moral injury of, like
you said, some of these people that you remember
in boot camp and now you're, you know, bringing
them home in a casket covered in a flag. So,
you know, you already had these struggles when
you were younger. You had this kind of healing
element when you first enlisted. But now you're
in a very, very traumatic position. So how were
you able to kind of process what you were doing?
I really don't know. I don't really know how
to put that into words. I just remember I always
wanted my Marines in the funeral to be flawless
because I wanted the family to be proud of what
the Marine Corps represented and how we treated
their loved one when we were laying them to rest.
What we do in the Marine Corps that the other
services don't do is when we get to the hole,
we raise the casket. as a final salute which
takes a lot of strength but it's just our way
our our last way of saying you know thank you
for your service um yeah i don't really know
how to put that one into words to describe it
it's it's really just wanting to make sure that
we do you know we do that service member and
their family justice was there any kind of element
when you reflect back now with this mature lens
that you have any element of healing at this
point or do you think you'd still kind of push
things down up to then oh i pushed things down
for a long time it wasn't even until long after
i was out of the military deep into hollywood
that i was able to start processing some of the
stuff Well, let's talk about transition then,
because that can be so jarring for military members,
first responders. You know, you especially you've
had this this certain upbringing. You find this
incredible tribe within the military, within
a fire station. You know, you've got purpose.
You've got, you know, shared suffering. You and
all these things are incredibly healing. And
then one day. you don't anymore. And that can
be so jarring for our service members, for our
first responders. What made you decide to pull
the trigger on transitioning out? And what was
that initial experience like for you? When I
ended my active service, I went to Iraq to be
part of the identity management mission. At the
time, it was all classified. So SecDef wanted
to safeguard all the bases. How do you do that?
Well, biometrics. So we were the test bed for
the DOD Biometrics Task Force. So for the first
two years, I was doing base access. I was the
operations manager. Ended up moving into the
country manager position. So there was a lot
of traveling involved to make sure that things
were. functioning as they should. But with all
the travel, obviously, you're going to encounter
danger. It's inevitable. And the longer you're
over there, the more things are going to happen
that you're going to have to figure out how to
deal with once it's all said and done and over
and you're out of there. The second two years,
I moved more into a liaison position, working
directly with the Iraqis. liaison with the U
.S., helping them stand up their own biometric
capabilities. And at the end of those two years
is when we started transitioning everything back
over to the Iraqis. And it started getting much
more dangerous at the time. And it just got to
the point where things were becoming, there were
too many close calls. And, you know. I had the
opportunity to leave and I took it. I knew it
was time to go. So I took a leap of faith and
moved to New Orleans to do some more contract
work with the Marine Corps. Marine Forces North
is out of New Orleans. So that's where I went,
man. I just took a leap and said, I'm out. I
can't do it anymore. I'm done. Reflecting back
on the time in Iraq for a moment. I've said this
on many, many of these interviews of people that
have found themselves forward deployed. One thing
that we get back at home is an extremely polarized
perspective when it comes to the news, how war
is portrayed. Either kill them all, let God sort
them out, or they're all baby killers. And in
between are our men and women that are out there
with our flag on their shoulder, protecting that
country, protecting our country. Two -part question.
The first part, regardless of the politics that
sent you out there, was there a point where you
realized there were some horrific people that
needed to be taken care of, even though obviously
you were in this biometric role? 100%. A lot
of the locals who I worked with directly, whether
in the government or civilians, were very grateful
that we were there. And I was able to develop
some really close friendships with some of the
local Iraqis. And, you know, as a result of that,
of their sacrifice, and when I say their sacrifice,
some of these locals, just by working with us,
lost their entire families. come home, their
whole family's hanging in the front yard trees.
Or who knows what happened to them? They get
kidnapped. So yeah, there's some horrific people
there. And I think it's really hard to wrap your
mind around how there can be such little value
for human life. And one of the things that bothers
me here in this country is we have it so good,
but the stupidity is just so outrageous here.
There's no perspective. There's no cultural perspective
to compare how good we have it here because most
people have never even left this country. But
when you go over there and you see how a lot
of these people are living and you kind of lose
sight of the political side of it, you kind of
lose sight of why you're over there. You just
have a mission to do and that mission is to try
and help these people. And that's what I was
doing. And that's what my team was doing. And
that's what I thrived on doing. And I think when
you're genuine about it, you'll see the good
people versus the bad people. But that bad presence
you were talking about, man, that evil is just
on a whole nother level. Well, this is the other
thing as well. I mean, you just alluded to it
for a second. We don't hear the kindness and
compassion. either on the news whether it's of
our own military or the indigenous population
that you guys are serving alongside or trying
to protect so when you reflect what were some
of those beautiful elements about that culture
i think really i mean the family just how close
-knit the family and friends are I mean, the
gatherings they have, the feasts that they have
together, the celebrations they have, things
that we don't really do a whole lot here to that
degree. The way they celebrate sports, the way
they, I don't know, it's a very different culture.
This is the best way to explain it. The culture
is very, very different. It's really cool to
be able to have that cultural perspective. When
you travel the world and you visit these countries
and you see the difference in cultures, but at
the end of the day, every culture has its evil.
Especially in that part of the world, that evil
is just dead set on carnage and torment. All
the stuff here in the States, we're not exposed
to. And if you were exposed to it, you'd have
a whole different outlook on life. What I see
is it's insidious as well, meaning it's like
a death by a thousand cuts. It's not just suddenly
someone pops up who's just atrocious in our society
and like, okay, well, that person needs to go.
It's that frog in the boiling water. It starts
off cold and it slowly turns the heat up. And
history is full of these lessons of exactly when
that has happened, whether it's Nazi Germany
or we can go back to British history and American
history and all these other areas. And I think
what's such a spit in the face for all the people
that were lost previously is, as you said, that
we... allow this to happen again. We allow this
division to happen. Regardless, I don't care
what anyone's political leanings are. When people
are put in front of us that are dividing a nation,
to me, that's the opposite of leadership, just
like we talked about earlier. If you're a Marine
leader and you've got the two sides of a platoon
working against each other, then that's not leadership.
It's no different on the national level. But
hearing all these stories that I have, whether
it's our warfighters or people from all over
the world. The storytelling, you know, these
atrocities that have happened. The question is,
when are we going to learn from them? If we're
not hearing, you know, stories like yours, if
we're not looking back in the history and go,
we need to make sure it doesn't happen again.
We're just setting ourself up for yet another
incident. And we're seeing it around the world
to this day. Yeah, I remember there was a point
in time where it didn't matter if you were a
Democrat or Republican, you could have. hard
conversations. You could talk to people. You
could have friends who were on whatever political
side. It didn't matter. And for some reason now,
you can't, God forbid, you talk to someone on
the other side, your family will disown you now.
I mean, I don't know what's happening with this
country, but it makes me sick to my stomach.
And I have a very hard time talking about it
because, again, it's back to people watch the
silly ass news, base their opinions off of whatever
these reporters and commentators are saying.
When I was at the Pentagon, I had a TSSCI clearance.
And I just remember being privy to many things
that were highly classified. And you knew the,
you knew the real story of what was going on.
And then all of a sudden, a couple of days later,
you see it trickle out in the news and you're
like, it's not what the fuck happened. Like it's
got a little bit of it, you know? So it's, it's
like, we're just being played. I don't know,
man. I'm just so grateful to live in this country
and I'm, I'm grateful to have served. I would
do it over again and again and again and again.
I just wish that we as a society would wake up
and understand how good we have it here because
I don't know what the future looks like. It kind
of terrifies me knowing what my daughters are
going to have to go through and what their kids
are going to have to go through if there's even
going to be anything left. I'm what I always
say, an incurable yet angry optimist. I feel
like the wheels are coming off the illusion that's
created this recently. You know, like you said,
news, I mean, CNN, Fox, same exact blueprint.
I mean, you've got, I mean, just take one step
back and look, you know, the screen's divided.
There's four assholes arguing with each other.
It's not news. As you said, it's commentary.
It doesn't matter if it's left or right. I had
a guy on a couple of times now, Larry Doyle,
who was one of the. Last really respected journalist,
he interviewed Nelson Mandela, the first interview
when he came out of Robben Island. That says
the kind of trust that this man had. And he was
talking about there was a turning point. I think
it was either late 80s or early 90s where the
news went from being owned by an organization
and was just given a massive budget to go and
report the news, period. That's it. to, oh, now
we need the news to start making money. I think
it was Robert Maxwell, Rupert Maxwell, that kind
of era. And so we saw the shift where it was
all the clickbait and all the pieces that got
people angry. And then it got more and more divisive.
And then you look at the political system, where
I don't care, again, what you lean towards. If
we have a system where cigarette companies, weapons
manufacturers, fast food, alcohol, big pharma.
can pay these people to become president that's
also a broken system so you know to me i think
we're starting to see finally like the general
public is seeing the corruption that's behind
the way we choose these air quotes leaders and
you know the the things that are behind the news
like you said you've got the truth and then you've
got this facade of the truth i hope that the
jenga blocks are starting to come down i think
documentaries and podcasts and books are starting
to be cool again. So I hope that we're going
to begin a new revolution where, as you said,
your daughter's going to go into an era of awakening.
I really do. Because all these things that have
been put in front of us have got so extreme now
that even the extremists are starting to scratch
their heads. So I find that encouraging. Yeah,
I pray we get our shit together. Yeah, that's
really it. I mean, we're weak, fat, sick, and
lazy. Like, let's go out and move. Let's get
healthy. Let's eat good food. Let's have gratitude
for how good we have it here. Because I can guarantee
you, you can get on a plane and go somewhere
tomorrow that you're going to realize how good
you have it here in this country. And I always
say it, wherever I was in the world. I couldn't
wait to get back home. Absolutely. I literally
went to Crescent Beach yesterday with my wife
and was walking on the beach. And there was a
pod of dolphin swimming, I mean, 100 feet from
where we were. So we watched them for a while,
carried on up the beach, came back. And a different
place, the same pod, I'm assuming, were now surfing
the waves, literally like catching waves and
coming into like 50 feet from where we were.
And I said to my wife, I'm like, this is America.
Whether you're sitting in a forest in Seattle
or on a mountain in North Carolina, wherever
it is, this is the country. And there are beautiful
people. But the people on Fox News and the people
that show up every four years to get your vote,
that's not America at all. And this whole, well,
then if you don't like it, get out. No, don't
get out. Stay here. Fix it. This is worth fighting
for. But I truly believe that there is hope.
You mentioned strength and conditioning. It's
kind of a good transition then. You find yourself
in Louisiana. Talk to me a bit about that transition.
You're outside the Marine Corps now. You've come
back from Iraq. Was that jarring or were you
able to just kind of keep your mind busy with
the next step? I had a plan in mind and it just
backfired massively. I went through a bad divorce
too while I was over. Well, it was overseas,
which didn't help the matters when I came back
to transition. But the plan I had, it didn't
work out like I had thought. And it just left
me in a place where I was trying to find work.
Couldn't find work, burning through all my money,
having financial responsibilities. Realized that,
hey, no one can read a veteran's resume, which
was a big problem. So long story short, I ended
up losing everything I had. Filed for bankruptcy.
Ended up living out of my car. Lost my purpose.
My soul was broken. I'm like, how the hell did
I go through this entire Marine Corps process,
this career I was able to have at the highest
level? And then all of a sudden, here I am now,
just broken with nothing and nobody. So there
were a lot of hard moments where I had to pull
my head together and try and figure out, where
do I go from here? What happens next? What's
my pivot? Or is there a pivot? Or do I just end
it? So out of desperation, I turned to the one
thing that I never wanted to share with anybody,
and that's my fitness. I was known throughout
my entire Marine Corps career for my fitness.
No matter where I was or what I did, everyone
just knew me for fitness. And in turning to that
out of desperation, I landed right in the middle
of Hollywood South. I didn't realize in New Orleans,
specifically Louisiana, there were more TV shows
and movies being shot there than anywhere else
because of the tax credit. So the gym. that I
started personal training at, ended up being
a really hot spot for a lot of celebrities because
it was a small boutique gym in uptown New Orleans
that was 24 -7, very private place. That's where
I met Zac Efron when he came in actually doing
a movie about a Marine Iraq veteran. And that's
where we met. They brought me to set. And they
brought me on board as technical advisor for
this movie called The Lucky One. And that was
my entrance into film and TV. And from there,
I started making relationships. And yeah, that
was the infancy of, I don't even know what to
call this thing. I really don't know. It was
like, you know, I could just call it destiny,
part of God's plan. You mentioned when you were
younger that you just trained. There wasn't any
strength and conditioning component. What was
that evolution? I'm assuming obviously when you
entered the Marine Corps from really not understanding
that world at all to being known for your fitness
and strength at the end of it. I just did what
I saw other people doing when I was a kid. I
didn't know my ass from a hole in the ground.
When I joined the Marine Corps, I mean, it's
not a whole lot to do outside of drinking when
you're off. I don't party. I don't drink. I don't
do any of that stuff. The Marine Corps zapped
all that out of me. So I started training at
the gym, reading the muscle magazines. I fell
in love and got bit by the bug when I was in
Okinawa. That's when I really started to transform.
And then when I went to the body bear section,
that was part of the daily duty. I mean, we had...
waivers to eat as much food as we want. We had
waivers for our uniforms to be able to get elastic
put in them so that we didn't rip them when we
were carrying caskets. We were just big dudes.
And so I just, you know, when people would go
out on the weekends, I was at the vitamin shop
or bookstore reading books, trying to educate
myself. I was just immersed. in nutrition and
fitness. And I would come up with all these different
protocols and try them on myself and experiment
and see how I liked it. I would run different
training blocks. I would, I would copy, you know,
bodybuilders who I liked their style of training
and just started learning all these different
modalities of hypertrophy training and strength
training and different nutritional protocols
and all this stuff. So I just got really good
at understanding how to manipulate the body through
training and exercise and then obviously sleep
and all that stuff. But that was kind of the
evolution throughout my Marine Corps career,
which prepared me for Hollywood because Hollywood
South was a transient place. It was where actors
came into film and then they left and went back
home. So I didn't necessarily have long workups
to be with an actor. I was like the crunch time
guy. So I had to really be good and confident
in my abilities. And I was, and I still am. I
made some massive transformations in very short
periods of time, but it required a lot of discipline
and it required a lot of communication with production,
with the actor's assistant, and really with the
actor too. And I think it's what really brought
me into the action genre more than anything,
because those are the guys that are more serious
about training than anyone else. If you're working
with someone who's just got to do a bedroom scene,
chances are you're not going to get a lot of
intensity out of them. But if you've got someone
who's in an action film, let's just say a Marvel
movie or something, and their character is a
superhero. I mean, all this, like everything
I did fits right into that, you know, that wheelhouse.
So it was great. You know, I loved working with
these action guys because they were all in. The
Rock, cut from the same cloth, man. Like, it
was cool training him because we both live it.
You know what I mean? So when you run across
people like that, it's a really fun time. But
some actors, they just, you know, they wear discipline
like a costume. I have sushi envy with The Rock.
To be able to afford that much sushi all the
time. I wish. Zach Efron, I remember him. I forget
where it was. I don't know if it was one of his
things he did with Darren or Lean or it was somewhere
else. But he was talking about, I'm assuming
it was Baywatch. He said preparing for a film
and he got so, so lean and dieted to a point
where it actually made him sick for a long time.
I talk about. the, the danger of, um, driving
our children in, you know, high school, college
to a high level of performance at the detriment
of their wellness and longevity, whether it's
through injury, burnout, et cetera. But if you
think about Hollywood, whether it's Daniel Day
Lewis, you know, starving himself for, for a
role, or whether it's someone like Zac Efron
getting, you know, insanely lean for a specific
part, there's gotta be that kind of, um, moral
compass as well as a trainer. They'd be like,
look, I can get you to a certain point, but there
is a level where it's going to be dangerous for
you, your kidneys or whatever it is. So how have
you been able to kind of navigate that? Have
you had people wanting to push further than is
ethically responsible for a trainer? Yeah. Yeah.
Well, you got to figure too, one thing that actors
have to deal with is they, not all actors, when
you're at the upper echelon of your career, you're
basically going from movie to movie, movie to
movie to movie to movie. You never know what
you're going to have to look like from one movie
to the next. So you might have to be out of shape
for this movie and then literally roll right
into this next movie and be in shape. Well, there's
got to be some proper planning and structure
to the routine to be able to make that happen.
I did a movie with Josh Brolin called Old Boy,
the Spike Lee remake. And what we did there was
a really crazy transformation because he had
to put on all this weight. And it would be comparative
to similar to like what Tom Hanks did in Castaway,
although that movie they had like the whole year.
you know, it's like they did part of it, they
broke and then they came back and finished. We
didn't have that opportunity because of the budget.
So you're within the constraints of whatever
the production budget is too. So that movie,
I remember sitting down with the producers and
the director talking all this through and I was
confident I can do it, but I knew there was a
certain level of risk associated with it because...
Essentially, I fluctuated his body weight by
close to 60 pounds over just a few weeks. So,
you know, in Josh's mind, when he was finishing
the movie up in Massachusetts, we were talking.
He's like, should I start eating pizza and burgers?
And I'm like, no, I need you to get in the best
shape you can get into before you come here.
And he was like, and then when he got to New
Orleans and the producer saw him, they were like.
he's supposed to be out of shape. And I'm like,
you gotta, like, you gotta trust me. So if he
came, if he came into the production fat, like
literally fat, there's no way we could have stripped
all that off. So this is where you had to get
creative. And I did, I consulted with doctors
and nutritionists and everything, but essentially
it was like food sensitivity testing. We did
that. I had all, I had everything ready to roll.
By the time he got here, we loaded him up on
all the stuff. His body did not want to create
inflammation. Once we created all the inflammation,
we did like some sodium loading and had him on
creatine and stuff. So it was a lot of water
weight, just super puffy, not healthy. And then
obviously stripping all that water weight off
over the weekend or over the course of a few
days when he left set at the end of the week
and came back to set the following week. There
was actually some, I forgot what his name was,
James Ransom. They did some big interview and
he was talking about it. He's like, dude, he
looked like a different person when he came.
It's cool, but at the same time, I remember with
Josh, I was on him every day. I was calling him.
I was at his house. I was making sure everything
was on point because when you're doing something
on the riskier side, you want to make sure that
uh there aren't there aren't any anything's hap
there's nothing happen happening that's going
to put him in an even more risky situation than
he he's already in you know what i mean yeah
you just there's no way you can feel good putting
on that much weight that much water mate and
inflammation yeah we actually became friends
and it was after he did um only the brave so
then he's doing you know rocking and getting
ready to be you know have the same kind of fitness
and he was a volunteer wildland firefighter for
three years in arizona years prior josh josh
is like he's one of the best dudes man like he's
literally one of the best dudes i freaking love
him him jk simmons i mean they don't get all
caught up in that you know bs environment of
superficial stuff no i mean he literally became
friends with a random firefighter that started
a podcast you know in ocala so uh yeah that's
the humility that he had he ended up writing
the ford for my first book so there we go i mean
that's that kind of shows shows who he is exactly
well just before we progress another interesting
thing you're talking about all this deliberate
um nutritional skewing to project a form of faux
obesity in an actor. I've heard this a lot in
these kind of before and after, you know, Instagram,
whether it's nutritional supplements, whether
it's training systems. And few people have told
me that actually the before is the after and
vice versa. They get in great shape and then
they fake, you know, the before. I'm assuming
is that the same kind of thing that you're seeing
here? Well, no, we had to legitimately do it
from getting big to getting lean. Yeah, no, what
I mean is the influencers are usually in great
shape and they fake being out of shape for that
after picture. Yeah, so we see things from a
movie perspective. We're like, oh, he's fat and
then he gets in shape. But what's the easiest
way to film that? Well, let's get him in shape
so he knows he's getting in shape. We'll film
that part of the movie first. And then he can
start getting out of shape, which is going to
be easier to film that way because there's no
real way to flip that and be on the same timeline.
It's impossible. So yeah, that part happens a
lot. You'll see a lot of films where when you
see that transformation, a lot of time that's
flipped. That's correct. What is your perspective
on... the fitness world when it comes to social
media the nutritionists you know all the so -called
experts now i just had a great conversation with
julian pano who's uh you know revere strength
and conditioning coach unfucked a lot of crossfitters
back in the day um and he was saying like this
is you know kind of at covid and then that has
really destroyed the industry because people
the average person doesn't even know who to trust
anymore Exactly. It drives me nuts. It makes
me sick to my stomach because everyone's a coach
now. And I look at this whole fitness piece from
a different perspective, right? There's all this
biohacking stuff. There's peptides. There's all
these different nutritional protocols. There's
all these different training protocols. No one
ever agrees on anything. It doesn't matter how
successful you are. It's just a controversial
shit show. You can't open your social media without
seeing someone bashing someone else or someone
creating a video talking smack about someone
else. There's no camaraderie in the community.
Everyone's out to make a buck. Everyone's trying
to create their own system. For me, the approach
that I have is that's great. There are all these
different things, but fitness has levels. and
to the mainstream let's just say mainstream america
you could give the most optimal elite program
to the average american and they'll still fail
because their lifestyle habits aren't right their
mindset's not right So it's like there's foundational
things that you need to tackle and work on before
you even get into all that other stuff. So it's
partly why I'm not on social media talking about
all this. And there's a reframe that's about
to happen right now because I'm about to relaunch
my business and talk about what I'm talking about
now to the people who need to hear what I'm saying
now. Because all these people yapping on social
media. are talking to the fitness community or
talking to people who are a little more dialed
in than the average American. Well, I want to
help the average American. I want to help them
unfuck their nasty habits because they're so
lost and confused right now based on everything
that you're saying. You read one thing, you're
like, oh, great. And then you turn the page and
it contradicts what you just read. And you're
like, shit, where do I, well, what do I? I look
at this guy and he's saying this. And then I
turn and I look at this guy and he contradicts
everything he just said. And it just keeps going
and going and going. It's horrible. I mean, I
love fitness, but I cannot stand the fitness
industry because it's just so corrupt with everyone
trying to make a buck. I had James and I'm blanking
on his last name. UFC fighter was behind the
movie Game Changers. It was the plant -based
movie. And it was funny because I went to L .A.
and interviewed him. And on the Joe Rogan podcast,
I think it was Chris Kresser, who I believe is
an acupuncturist, a chiropractor. I think he's
an acupuncturist. But they were tearing apart
the Game Changers movie the first time. Three
hours of just talking shit. And don't get me
wrong. I love Joe Rogan's podcast overall. So
James has actually said, well, hey, can you not
put this out yet? Because I'm about to go back
on the Joe Rogan podcast and defend my movie.
And so I don't want to give him any secrets in
the conversation that we had. So I held it for
a bit. He went on the Joe Rogan podcast. And
I listened to both of these. And the second one
was them just going back and forth and arguing.
And what I had talked to James about is, and
this is ironically underlined by six hours of
this conversation prior, was the problem is you've
got the carnivores arguing, just like you said,
with plant -based or keto or whatever the thing.
And in the nutritional world, for example, No
one's talking about where they all agree. If
you are on carnivore, if you're on keto, if you're
most of these, there is a common denominator
where you are removing processed shitty food
from your diet. So you might be the right kind
of genotype where veganism works for you. You
might be for carnivore. But the point is, if
you're removing all the shit food. you're going
to make a huge impact. And I think this is, you
know, what you're talking about is we're confusing
people with, Oh, my way is the best way rather
than we'll hold on. What are we all doing that
would work for someone, no matter which way they
lean as far as diet type of diet. What I, what
I say is adherence. What can you be like, what
can you maintain adherence to? Because whatever
that is, is what you need to do. At the end of
the day, all the diets work if you can be adherent
to them. And it's as simple as that. It's about
finding the one that makes you feel the best,
that gives you the results you want, that you
can stay adherent to. It's as simple as that.
And for the people who are saying, you got to
do it this way, bullshit. There's no such thing
as a cookie cutter diet, just like there's no
such thing as a cookie cutter training program.
Everybody's different. Everybody's biology is
different, especially in this day and age when,
you know, everyone's loaded up on processed foods
and medication. You know what I mean? Like you
start getting into a place where you can feel
good, get your blood work done, see what your
internal biology is, your hormones, address those,
and then start like baby stepping into it and
figure out what you like, what makes you feel
good. Um, and that's going to be the route that
you want to go down. But I say, try, try all
of it, you know, try all of it and see what you
like best. A hundred percent. Yeah. They say
that was the best training routine is the one
you stick to. So, I mean, triathletes are fit,
power lifters are strong, you know, there's,
you got to find the thing that you love to do.
And then, yeah, if there's some deficit in some
areas, mobility, whatever it is, then just work
on that as well. But I mean, you know, I've always
said to the people when I coach them, it's like
the hardest thing you did was walk through the
door. That's it. Once you're here, you're going
to get swept away with a workout. Exactly. Yeah,
exactly. And when you think about the training
programs and you think about the nutritional
protocols, there's success stories behind every
single one of them. So obviously they all work,
but do they work for you? Absolutely. Well, you
mentioned the film industry in Louisiana. You
started off as a technical advisor, then you're
doing some strength and conditioning work. How
did you find yourself in the other? profession
i did aside from firefighting which was the stunt
world i got into uh training some some bigger
name actors pretty quick which brought a lot
of notoriety and with the notoriety i got to
meet a lot of directors and producers and you
know a lot of people behind the cameras who make
a lot of decisions and call a lot of shots And
when they were training with me, they were asking
if I ever thought about getting in front of the
camera because of my my physique and my presence
and my look and just the way I carry myself.
And I I said I told all of them like, no, I didn't
even like this. Me training you wasn't even in
the cards. You know what I mean? Like I had no
idea I would have anything to do with Hollywood.
I just watched movies and watched TV shows. But
now I'm going to I'm going to listen to you and
I'm going to I'm going to go explore that. So
I got an acting coach, started getting into the
acting stuff and realized how much of a craft
and art it actually is, which most people are
completely ignorant to. And that actually was
something that started helping. We're talking
about all those emotions and stuff. It became
another source of therapy for me. That's a big
reason why I like acting is you can take all
these jacked up emotions that you would never
be able to do anything with. And now you can
start to use them and you can really have an
unlock with all of it, right? Because when you
get all that shit out, it's like, man, you just
feel so good. And then the stunt community is
a whole different beast because it kind of reminds
me of the military a little bit, the stunt community,
because it's so close -knit. you can't just say
you want to get stunts and you're automatically
in you i want to do stunts all right here here
here's a roll it doesn't even work like that
you like you gotta you gotta work your way in
you gotta prove yourself because at the end of
the day the stunt world is a very dangerous place
and not only can you get hurt or killed but you
can get someone else hurt or killed and i think
that's a huge piece of why you have to work with
people who you trust and want to be around. Because
if someone's just lackadaisical and wants to
get in stunts just because they want to say they're
a stunt performer or a stunt double, well, you're
going to get someone hurt if not killed. And
you're not going to represent what the stunt
community really stands for. Did you ever get
told? by your Marine friends or your military
friends, how cool it was that you were a stunt
person and then by your stunt friends, how cool
that was your Marine. Cause I remember getting
those two opposing things. And like you said,
yeah, there are some really kind of interesting
elements of stunt work, but I've always said
to the fire side, no, you, we do, we do stunts
for real in the fire service. You know, there
is no choreo practice and that kind of thing.
There is no, you know, script, but you know,
there is even, even with the professions that.
deal with real danger there's still this kind
of allure of the stunt world from the first responders
in my profession yeah yeah there was there was
a lot of back and forth talking about that kind
of stuff for sure because it's it's there's there's
a relatability there that you can you can speak
to specifically in the camaraderie side it's
it's it's unlike any other part of of the industry
in my opinion The new Naked Gun film just came
out with Liam Neeson and a bunch of my stunt
friends posted that they worked with it. And
I was looking at the credits at the end. And
it's amazing through the last 20 years. And I
just did live stunt shows. I didn't do the films
or the television as a stunt person. But so many
people I've worked with were in that film. So
just like you said, it's a much smaller group
than people realize. Yeah, I always, if I'm watching
a movie, I always watch the credits because I
want to see who's in it that I know. Absolutely.
That's pretty cool. So what about Bright? I actually,
ironically, haven't seen it. It always pops up.
I mean, it's one of those ones that's on my list,
but I have not seen it yet. But was that one
of the bigger opportunities for you? Yeah, Bright
was a bigger one for me. I remember being into
or going into David Ayer's office. It was a big
group of us and we're all standing around. He
was just looking at us and he could tell like,
He knew the type of person he wanted. He just
knew. It was like, you, you, you. It's like if
you're in the right company with the right stunt
guys, there's some pretty great opportunities
you can have. One thing on the stunt side for
me is, especially being the newer guy, I just
kept my mouth shut. I'm not trying to yap and,
you know, trying to fit in and trying to make
myself stand like you got. I was hired to do
a job. I'm going to do that job the best I can
do. And hopefully when I leave that show or that
movie, that production, someone else will want
to work with me again because I did a good job
and I was easy to work with. And I think that
makes a. a big difference because you see a lot
of the guys new guys come in and they're they're
trying to fit in and they can't stop talking
and they're all they're doing is asking questions
and they're trying to trying to stand out and
do stuff in front of the director and it's like
the stunt coordinator's like what the fuck are
you doing like go sit down and shut up you know
um it was cool bright was the first time that
i wore prosthetics and that that that sucker
was extensive When we were doing the camera test
the first week, I mean, the first day we were
in the chair for like over 12 hours, maybe 12,
13 hours, just trying to get all the makeup right.
Once we finally got it dialed in, it was three
and a half hours application and about 30 to
45 minutes to remove it, plus the duration of
filming. So kudos to Joel Edgerton for wearing
that for the entire production because, you know,
for the stunt team. We were in and out. It's
not like we were there the whole duration like
he was. Cold glue on your face at 5 a .m. and
trying to chew food through these big fake lips.
But it was a good time. I enjoyed that one. What
about near misses? One of my guys I used to do
the pirate stunt show with in Orlando years ago
literally broke his back. falling from a, we
had a sword fight on a mast and he transitioned
to a crow's nest and he was supposed to climb
down and it was a high fall, but that was later.
He ends up tripping, falling all the way down,
missing the mat, hitting the concrete pad, you
know, near a fatal injury, to be honest. So our
industry, obviously, it happens sometimes. Like
you said, it is a dangerous job and, you know,
one slip, one loss of... focus can, can be deadly.
So, you know, were there any kind of near misses
in your career that you remember? No, not for
me personally. And then also to not, I mean,
you get the, you get, you get beat up doing stunts.
That's inevitable, but no, no, nothing, nothing
detrimental where, you know, for any productions
I was involved in or me personally, there were,
there was nothing to that degree. you know other
than you know when you're taking a fall down
who knows how many flights of stairs or when
you know when you gotta jump out of a window
or you're getting beat up and you got to keep
taking a fall and you can't wear the pads you're
supposed to be wearing because you don't have
a shirt on and you know it's stuff like that
but that's just that's part of doing stunts Absolutely.
Yeah. I never, like I said, I never had that
repetitive element. Ours was live. So no matter,
you know, if you got a sword stuck in you or
something, you had to keep carrying on and just
try and play it off. If it wasn't, it wasn't
terrible. All right. Well then you talked about
the healing element of acting. Cause it's interesting.
I went to drama school for a year. a fucking
awful actor which is what made me go into stunts
instead i was good at that um and but where i
found the catharsis ironically was writing and
it was my own story and then doing the audiobooks
and the acting training ultimately did kind of
pay in in a very different area where i wasn't
really acting acting but i was kind of articulating
stories that i'd written myself you have this
kind of healing element you fall in love with
this this profession and then covid hits so talk
to me about again that jarring transition of
this next phase that you're in yeah that was
that was a tough one for me because 2020 was
mapped out to be a very big year on the acting
side oddly i was actually transitioning out of
fitness because things were going so well with
the other two and i was happy about it because
i'll you know it's nice it would have been nice
to have fitness back to myself um but God's plan,
man. COVID hit, industry shut down. Not only
did it shut down, it just turned into a cesspool
of political nonsense. And that for me was a
point where I knew I needed to pivot a little
bit again, because up to that point, everything
that I was doing was reliant on my work in Hollywood.
I graduated high school, joined the Marine Corps.
I was all military, got out, lost everything,
boom, right into Hollywood, straight into the
spotlight doing fitness and then acting and stunts.
I never had time to work on myself really, but
I didn't really understand business. I wasn't
very business savvy, business minded. I was just
kind of, I was hustling, trying to get my life
back on track. And looking back on it now, it's
not like. Many people go through a pandemic in
their lifetime. It's not something you put on
your calendar and plan for. So it definitely
took me by surprise and brought me into a whole
new world of fitness. It pulled me straight back
into all fitness. I started doing online coaching
because I'm like, I need to have something that's
mine. I need to do something that's mine. And
that's when I launched my online coaching business,
started working with... you know, executives,
CEOs, founders, just high performers, because
I'm good at custom stuff. I'm good at being able
to take a program and create something that you
can implement into your life rather than giving
you a program that you have to figure out how
to adapt to. And, you know, because that's where
most people fail. So that's, that was the beginning
of this whole new space I'm in now in the, in
the business side, but from, from what we were
talking about before. what makes what I'm doing
now more difficult and maybe not as enjoyable
is because everybody's a freaking online coach.
It doesn't even matter what industry you're in
anymore. So that's the hard part of it now is
I don't want to represent that coaching space.
I'm trying to represent something different.
I want to be authentic. I want to be real. I'm
not trying to sell you some fake shit. It's like
I really do have your best interest at heart.
I know what it's like to not have a lot of money.
I know what it's like to not have any direction.
So there's a lot of things that I can speak to
that are relatable to a lot of people based on
my life experiences. And I feel like that's a
big part of why I went through what I went through
is to be able to have that knowledge, to be able
to be relatable and be able to impact people
on that level. Was there a jarring element, as
you mentioned, you know, the healing began with
the acting. Now the acting is kind of, you know,
pulled from you. Did you hit a wall again or
were you able to lean into the creation of the
fitness space? You know, I still feel like I'm
on the verge of something bigger. And I have
a business mentor who I'm working with right
now. We're building out some very cool stuff.
I'm getting more into the speaking side of things.
I'm flying out again next, oh, tomorrow to Wisconsin
for a speaking engagement. I was just in Pennsylvania
doing a VFW groundbreaking ceremony. So it was
like, there's the acting stuff helped out tremendously
because it forced me to be able to speak better
and just be able to articulate things better.
And also to kind of Part of acting is doing homework
and a lot of the homework is on people, like
people watching and character development and
all that stuff. So you start to understand human
nature a little bit differently than you would
otherwise. So all those things have helped me
tremendously. And I'm still in the film and TV
space. I'm just in it a little more strategically
now. I don't want to. have to rely on it i want
to work in it and i want to work with people
who want to work with me and i'm still obviously
doing my thing on the back end to to be ready
for when the calls come because i'm signed on
to some different projects right now hopefully
that kick off later this year in the next year
but at the same time knowing that i have something
that's my own now gives me more peace of mind
i can i can sleep a little better at night breathe
a little better The film industry is brutal,
man. Unless you make it to the top, you got to
hustle for every job. And that's what a lot of
people don't understand. From the outside looking
in, everyone wants to be in it. But man, they
don't understand that hustle. When you finish
that project and you're like, all right, now
I got to find the next one. I got to pay the
bills. What's the next one? Hustle, hustle, hustle,
hustle, hustle. Yeah, that was one thing when
I came back from... Because when I worked in
Japan, it was as a stuntman. I opened Universal
Studios. And we came back and I was learning
now about this industry. And yeah, you've got
to go on set and you've got to try and find the
stunt coordinator and give them your resume.
And I kind of transitioned into realizing I could
become a firefighter in America once I moved
there. And so then I'm like, well, I'm in the
Orlando area. There's numerous theme parks. I'm
just going to stay with this. But it was understanding
how hard it would be and then also not be able
to take all that time off when you were filming
if I'm supposed to be. you know in a fire station
so but yeah i don't think people realize you
know unless you are as you said that top tier
where now you're with a team and you just get
asked to work on a film you know these guys are
just grafting and grafting and then on the side
you know waiting tables working in theme parks
whatever it is so they can get their next gig
yeah no one most people don't see that part of
it no not at all And go to the social media point,
most people won't put that out there that they're
doing that. They want it to look like they're
just movie to movie. Yeah, exactly. What I'm
actually working on is beginning stages yet,
but I'm turning my second book into a TV show.
I'm not saying if it's going to happen, period.
So it's interesting because I'm looking at the
film industry, the TV industry a little differently
now. I'm about to enter that and turn the page
in this new chapter of my life. And seeing the
need now for real storytelling, like The Pit
is a perfect example of real gritty drama, you
know, technically advised to a T perfectly, you
know, the medical side is spot on there. And
I'm talking to all these people in the industry,
and there sounds like everyone is sick and tired
now of the kind of woke -ism, the PC element.
And I remember hearing, why am I blanking on
his name? God, the guy that played Iron Man just
fell out of my head. Robert Downey Jr. Thank
you. On Joe Rogan. And they were both saying
that they could never do Tropic Thunder today
with his kind of, you know, blackface character.
And it's ridiculous because the whole point of
that character was to show the ridiculous racism
that used to occur in Hollywood. It's saying
the very thing that people are then turning around
and stopping it. So with that, you mentioned
cesspool. You know what? What was that darkness
of Hollywood and where do you hope the next evolution
is going to take, you know, the film and television
industry? Oh man. I see, I see the industry changing
a lot from a social media perspective, but also
too, from the standpoint of California is not
the place anymore. LA is not. not necessarily
home base anymore. So a lot of these well -known
actors, these powerhouses in their craft are
living in different states and pushing their
politicians to incentivize being able to film
there, have those tax credits. So I see everything
opening up more across the country to film and
TV, which is great. The social media side is
very interesting because we've seen the evolution
of the way things were when you went to the theater.
When you went to see a movie, you went to the
theater. And then streaming came out and then
it was like, oh, there was all these loopholes
about how they could not pay you what they would
normally have to pay you if it was theatrical.
And then now with social media, they're looking
for, well -known names with followers that they
can pay a quarter of the cost and save money.
So it's like, everything's about freaking greed
and money. And it just, so I don't, I don't know
where this thing is going to go. I love seeing
a lot of these actors, you know, pushing to,
to have a little more diversity, you know, Wahlberg
and, and McConaughey and those guys just kind
of Mel Gibson, Stallone, just. pushing to have
some non -woke nonsense I mean it's like trying
to find a good movie these days is I mean sometimes
you can't even find you can't even find one because
it's like it's just tattered with politics and
identity politics and everything's got to be
about race and I don't know man I don't know.
I'm, again, quietly confident that there is this
new bloom coming out. The Pit did an amazing
job. It portrayed people of all walks of life
the way it was supposed to be portrayed. There
might have been a slight leaning in some topics,
but I think this is what people want. It's storytelling.
It's not supposed to represent every single person
on planet Earth in every single production. If
you're portraying Harlem in this area, there
might not be a single white face in the whole
crowd. There might not be a single... gay or
disabled, who knows, you know, but if you're
portraying another area, it might be all white.
And so we got to get away from that. But I think
the need as well, from what I'm seeing is reality.
I think people are tired of that, you know, polished
Hollywood, you know, network television bullshit,
you know, where every detective looks like they
came out of a Miss World or, you know, the front
of men's health, you know, and get back to real
storytelling. And making people uncomfortable.
And this is what my story is certainly going
to make people fucking uncomfortable. It's a
dark, dark story with a beautiful growth journey
later in the story. But my world, there's nothing
pretty about it. The calendars and all that stuff,
the two -dimensional stuff that you'll see at
firefighters and television up to this point
is pretty, you know. Disney -fied, if you like,
but our world that we actually exist and the
people that are struggling in society that we
respond to, you can't curve those edges. You've
got to tell those stories the way they actually
are. Otherwise, people don't even understand
the magnitude of some of these issues. Yeah.
I'm excited to hear your story and see it come
to life. I do agree with you, though. I think
things are finally turning. a little bit more
in the right direction it's just a matter of
you know how long is it going to take before
we're there where people can stop focusing on
all the stuff that they want to be offended by
i mean who cares man like it's entertainment
doesn't have to be so serious no exactly you
know i mean god when i was growing up this is
a benny hill show this creepy old dude that was
chasing everyone you know what i mean this there's
been that element for a long long time but uh
It's not just because I don't want to. I think
what I have to say is a little more important
than what supplement you're taking or what type
of lifting routine you're doing in the gym. That
mental health piece is so under addressed when
it comes to overall physical wellness because
obviously we talk about it when we talk about
trauma and stuff. Someone had on the show, Johan
Hari told me a story. He wrote an amazing book
called Chasing the Scream. And it's in his book.
They did a study, obesity study, and they gave
all the recipients IV nutrition. So they had
no, you know, they weren't ingesting anything
at all. And obviously they had some sort of movement
practice as well. And there was this one woman
who was the rock star of the study, lost a shitload
of weight. And then one day she just stopped
showing up. And they finally tracked her down.
I think it was weeks later and she put on a bunch
of weight. And they were able to get her to come
back in and talk to her. And one of the researchers
was clever enough to actually kind of ask some
background questions. And in that process, he
said, well, do you remember how old you were
when you started eating food for comfort? And
she said, I think 12. And he said, was there
anything? traumatic that happened in your life
when you were that age and she said yeah that
was when my grandfather started molesting me
and the point was that as this woman had got
back down to a healthy weight she was starting
to attract attention from the opposite sex or
more attention from the opposite sex and in her
particular unaddressed trauma story that was
a huge red flag she didn't want to attract you
know attention from the same kinds of people
that she'd been preyed upon by so if we're not
looking at that trauma Or that, you know, there's
mental health struggles that, you know, whether
food was just for comfort, whether it was a dopamine
hit, whether God forbid, you know, being thin
was actually the issue. And then, like you said,
you're just throwing supplements or training
plans at people. You're missing a huge part of
the puzzle. And even in my class, like every
like every two months or so, we'll do a sandbag
walk to the top of the parking garage next to
the gym. And just for the for no other reason
than to get them tired a little bit and then
just talk to them. but checking in with everyone
how are you doing today why why are you still
coming to the gym what is your goal you know
and then i've had people talk about domestic
abuse and all kinds of things and that's kind
of been part of the healing that's why they're
there so if you're not as a coach addressing
exactly like you said that mental piece you're
missing a huge part of that pie yeah that's that's
a great that's a great example of the underlying
root cause of, I would say, probably most of
the countries dealing with to some degree, not
the same story, but there's some underlying condition
that has caused them to continue down the route
that they are. And that goes back to the point
of why this fitness journey that once you get
the mind right, it's going to be a journey. Because
if you're 40 years old, well... You just spent
the last 40 years. It's going to take a little
bit of time to address that and get you back
physically, internal health, mentally. All of
it comes together. It's going to take a minute.
So I think these coaches out there pushing these
hacks and these shortcuts and stuff is just completely
leading people down the wrong path and taking
their money. I think another area of huge irresponsibility,
and I've talked about this a lot, and this spans
both sides of the political aisle because we're
talking about decades now, is just the environment
that we've created in the states in general.
Again, rural Iowa, this may not be a thing, but
certainly in suburbia, urban areas. I grew up,
and I say this a lot, I grew up on a farm in
England. We had an orchard. We had a vegetable
garden. We had livestock. I was on like... 70
acres so I could ride my bike and run and do
all the things. So for me to then look down my
nose and go, oh, why are you overweight? Why
are you out of shape? It's extremely unfair because
if someone grew up in an urban setting and all
they had was concrete around them and the local
basketball court was where the gangs hung out
and they got their food from McDonald's or the
bodega, that's a very different environment that
that young child grew up in. You talked about
Okinawa. healthy food exercise community all
these things that i've heard as far as that culture
you know if you're a young okinawan i would argue
you probably set up for success when it comes
to longevity and health if you were king for
a day what would you do culturally in this country
to start creating an environment that forges
health right at the beginning of someone's life
it would come down to the food reading realistically
where All this processed, ultra processed food
that gets people addicted to food. I mean, it
needs to it needs to go away. You know, it's
you go into these these stores and it's like
you see how much trash is in there. You see how
cheap it is. And then you walk to the parts of
the store that are healthy and you see how expensive
it is. Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't even make
sense. But. Food can literally be a drug. And
food companies hire food scientists to create
foods to get people addicted. I mean, we're just
pawns in the game here. And at the end of the
day, nutrition is the foundation of everything.
I mean, if you're eating very clean, whole, nutritious
foods and you're exercising, you're going to
feel completely different. And you're going to
think different. You're going to sleep different
than if you're eating shit out of packages and
wrappers and boxes that has two paragraphs worth
of ingredients on it. It's like you don't have
any control over the way you feel. Now that controls
the way you feel. You're on an emotional roller
coaster. You eat a meal, you crash. It's like
every day is highs and lows. Probably every time
you eat a meal, you don't know how someone's
going to react. You don't know how someone's
going to talk. I've had conversations with people
that are very obese, chronically unhealthy, sick,
chronically unhealthy. They don't even understand
what it feels like to feel normal because what
they feel right now is their normal. So when
you start to bring them higher, it's almost like
an epiphany for them. They can't believe that
this is the way they could feel, that they can
feel, that they are feeling. Nutrition, man.
Absolutely. All right. Well, the first of the
closing questions, is there a book or are there
books that you'd love to recommend? It can be
related to our discussion today or completely
unrelated. The Mountain Is You is a great book.
And I think, you know, it's about self -sabotage.
But it's one of those books that you don't want
to put down. It's like you want to keep reading
it. And when you're done, you want to read it
again. And I think a lot of people will say that
I don't self -sabotage myself. I guarantee. There's
some part of you that has some type of self -sabotage.
self -sabotaging behavior in there. Even if it's
to a minute degree, whether it's coming down
to believing that you can even accomplish this
tiny goal, it's still self -sabotaging behavior.
But it's a very interesting book the way it's
framed. I think it's Brianna West or something
like that. I would recommend everyone read it.
I've made three t -shirts total in the whole
length of this podcast, nine years. And the most
recent one on the back, It says self -care and
sabotage, and it's got a heart with a grenade
pin in it. Because, again, like you said, we're
just one long roller coaster. You abstain, and
you're super healthy, and you go to all these
workouts, and then you start drinking, and then
you crash. I always say it's about trending.
You're going to have your ups and downs regardless.
It's like V -fib. But if the line is going in
the right direction, then you're right. But no
one is just a straight line without any hiccups.
I don't care what they say, how diligent they
are on Instagram. We all have our bad days. Yeah,
absolutely we do. I know I do. What about films
and documentaries that you love? I'm not good
at that one. I haven't really watched a whole
lot of anything recently. And to be honest with
you, I'm just kind of stuck in my own world doing
my own thing. I kind of lost the enjoyment for
watching anything. One thing I hear that's interesting,
even from Josh, is these actors will do all these
scenes. but they really have no idea how the
film's actually going to turn out because obviously
it's in the director and in the editor's hands
and then the music and all the things and the
way it's cut. What was the production that surprised
you the most from shooting versus the final screening?
Of what I worked on? In a good or bad way? You
can choose. Well, I really thought Terminator
Genisys was going to turn out a lot better than
it did. But that was a flop. I was so excited
for that one. Man, I'm sucking at these questions.
It doesn't matter. There's no right or wrong
answer. It's just purely my interest. Yeah. I
wish Oldboy would have done better. It could
have done really good, I think. Because, I mean,
it's a crazy movie and that twist at the end
will just completely sabotage your mind. Have
you seen it? I'm trying to remember if I have.
It sounds familiar. I've seen a lot of his. I'm
about to go watch Weapons. This week that comes
out. That's supposed to be amazing as well. But
I'm sure I have. I'm just blanking as the story
in my mind. The original is a Korean movie. And
Spike Lee redid it with Josh. But it's about
this guy who is like this alcoholic, kind of
low life. No one likes him. No one wants to be
around him. He has no zest for life. He's just...
out there and he gets kidnapped and put in this
uh this hotel room i think it was for like 10
or 20 years and then while he's in there he starts
getting in shape and wanting to find out who
did this and then he finally gets out and goes
on this mission to find out why this happened
and then when you find out at the end you're
like poof i did not see that coming that was
crazy and there's a there's a there's a fight
sequence in there It's all one take. And I mean,
I forgot how, how long it is, but I remember,
I remember how, uh, Josh and JJ were like, like
emotional with each other for how it came out.
Cause I mean, it was a hell of a fight sequence.
It just goes, it goes, it just goes from one
floor to another floor to another floor. I mean,
just. one shot so yeah it i'm surprised it didn't
do better but it's uh it's it's a it's a pretty
cool movie i'm gonna have to watch it doesn't
ring a bell so it's obviously one that i miss
it's funny as well that when it comes out is
a big part i didn't realize i had a few guys
from band of brothers captain dale die and then
um shane taylor who uh was the medic in band
of brothers but that came out right before 9
-11 So even though it's almost like the 10th
anniversary is really when it started gaining
momentum. Imagine working that entire project.
And then obviously what happened was absolutely
tragic. And of course, it's going to trump that.
But what ended up being such an incredible show.
I mean, you know, one of the most recommended
when I asked that question at the end. But again,
the timing was just awful. And then conversely,
you can make a god awful documentary about a
guy that has a tiger and it fucking blows up
because COVID happens. You can make a shit show
really popular with timing and then vice versa.
Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Timing is everything.
Absolutely. All right. Well then the next question,
is there a person that you'd recommend to come
on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first
responders, military and associated professions
of the world? You know, Oliver Stark. That rings
a bell. I'm trying to remember why. He's a, I
got to know him back in L .A. He was a client
of mine. We became pretty good friends. But,
you know, he had been an up and coming actor
for a while. You know, you'd recognize him in
all these different shows and stuff. And then
all of a sudden he landed the big time with 9
-1 -1. So he he's he's one of the leads for 9
-1 -1 as a firefighter. No, that'd be brilliant.
Yeah. And he's and he's from he's from your neck
of the woods over over over in. Wait, where were
you from again? I'm going to have to wait now.
Where do you think I'm from? I'm going to put
you on the spot. Well, I mean, obviously you're
from somewhere over in the UK. There we go. Okay,
good. Yeah, most people say Australia. You've
got a better ear than most. Yeah, so he's over...
I can't remember where in the UK he's from, but
I mean, you guys have that commonality too. Yeah,
that'd be... He's been on that show now for...
I mean... um from season one until i don't even
know if it's on anymore okay yeah that'd be amazing
i've got another friend um i would say friend
someone i work with in japan as a stunt person
she's been on on chicago fire for years as a
stunt person too so it's interesting but yeah
i mean if you're able to help me connect that
would be amazing yeah i'll reach i'll reach out
to him and see if i can get him for you and you
ever you know eddie fernandez i heard you talking
to christian about it on their podcast but i
don't know if i recognize that name uh he's a
big stunt guy he's been he's been doing it now
for i think over 30 years but his his his uh
one of his staples is fire so the first time
i got lit on fire was by him i need a fire guy
for my show there's a lot of fire in this story
so that'll be interesting yeah yeah it's interesting
actually because i love getting stunt people
on again like i said i was i was uh you know
a uh weekend warrior live show guy but i don't
hear stunt people on podcasts very often you
know what i mean so there's so many people i
got katie taylor coming on who's like a world
-class um skydiver stunt woman you know there's
just there's the people that are in that that
profession are phenomenal most of them are you
know masters of their craft as well but i it
blows me away that they're not in all these podcasts
being interviewed all the time so i love being
able to talk to to that group because i mean
people are missing you know incredible life stories
from these men and women yeah not only that you
figure what a movie or a tv show would be like
without stunts oh absolutely i think this is
the first time ever wasn't it that the uh the
oscars actually had a nod for stunt performers
well i mean i had heard them talking about it
forever you know it's like how how like how can
there not be a category for stunts but there's
a category for everything else Yeah. I mean,
you can't, it is impossible to make a good movie
without stunts. I don't even know how that happened.
How did that, how did that even become a thing?
I mean, I mean, I grew up with James Bond films
that, you know, that was the pinnacle of stunt
performance. Like without stunts, there is no
James Bond film. I don't understand how you can
not recognize that profession. I don't know.
Insecurity maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Probably the ego
of the leads back in the day, I would imagine.
Yeah. All right. Well, the last question before
we make sure where people can find you and then
ultimately this platform you're building, what
do you do to decompress? I'm a homebody, man.
I love being at home. I love playing pool. I
love going in the pool. I love getting in my
sauna. I love doing my cold plunge. I love going
on walks. Just all the, all the really simple
stuff. That's, that's my jam. I don't, I don't
like to go out, you know, I don't really hang
out at all. I don't put myself in situations
where I could potentially get in trouble. I just,
I like a no drama, easygoing life. Watch, watch
a good, watch a good movie, kick back, get a
massage. Like that's my, that's my decompression.
What genre of film do you normally like watching?
Pretty much all action. I love action. But again,
going back to what we were talking about earlier
with filmmaking then versus now, I remember if
the content is good, if the storyline is good,
if the acting is good, I can watch anything.
it's just not the case these days so i just typically
trend towards uh action because that's my i don't
know this is what i like or even you know coming
from a profession that deals with fire so obviously
we're pretty familiar what it looks like and
what it's supposed to look like deviating to
cgi for fire now you see it with explosions and
it just looks so shit even in high budget films
so you know there's some areas where i'm sure
that part of the stunt world felt threatened
by you know cgi etc but you know some things
absolutely make it a lot safer you know not flinging
a fire a human being off a skyscraper for example
but there's other areas i think where computers
still can't take the place of for example a live
burner on a show No, and the fire, but, and also
too, when they're, when they're not really firing
rounds, it's kind of the CGI after effects, post,
you know, post -production effects. Yeah. Absolutely.
Yeah. I would say fire is probably one of the
funnest stunts I've done. There's something very
surreal about it. It's almost like you're, it's
like you're in a tunnel. You can't hear anything
except the flames. I don't even know how to describe
it. It was very serene. It is. The crazy thing
is my backstory, when I was four years old, I
was in a house fire and my eight -year -old sister
got us out. Talking about paths, either you go
one way or the other, you'd think I'd be terrified
of fire, but instead I became a firefighter,
which is bizarre. But I have that very thing.
I always remember feeling, unless it was super
dangerous and you're in a bad spot, I thought
it was beautiful. And it was a shame to put it
out almost in a way you have to, otherwise you
burn up and die, but that's your job, firefighter.
But it is, I mean, it is kind of almost mesmerizing
in a way when you're surrounded by fire. Yeah,
it's a very indescribable thing. And it's probably
one of the, if I had to say what my favorite
stunts were, I would say it's fire, driving,
and swimming, water work. Absolutely. Yeah, I
actually auditioned for Waterworld, the live
show, when I was in Japan. But it was me and
one of my good friends, and he was, you know.
we were equal. He was already embedded with that
group. He got the role and rightly so, but that's
a fun show. You know, there's a, there's a fire
dive 30 foot, um, I think 30 foot, I think about
that. Right. Um, they're on fire and these are
like, you know, world -class high divers doing
that. There's jet skis and all kinds of stuff.
But yeah, that, that from a stunt show point
of view, that's one I would have loved to have
done was the water show. So. What is your full
time right now? So now I am in the adrenaline
infused world of podcasting and writing books.
So this is your whole gig? This is it, yeah.
So you talk about struggling with identity. Yeah,
there's no podcast calendars around where you
take your shirt off, that's for sure. So yeah,
you have to really be able to settle your ego
because now you're literally... known for what
you do. It's not who you are anymore. It's not
that identity. So being a stuntman is cool. Being
a firefighter is cool. Paramedic. But yeah, this
is what I'm doing now. But it's a force multiplier.
You're taking that journey that you've had and
now you're kind of older and wiser. It's like,
well, how can I use that and help lots of people
rather than, for example, just respond to one
person at a time on a fire engine? So it's a
really interesting new chapter. But as far as
humility, you've got to let that ego go. because
you're not that thing that you identified before.
You're just not. And you couldn't be further
from it now. You're sitting, talking to a microphone
or writing books. So it's powerful. I think it's
the medium that really makes a difference in
the world. But yeah, from an ego point of view,
you've got to have a kind of ego death to move
forward from that. Yeah, I can understand that.
That's awesome, man. Thank you. Well, for people
listening then, firstly, where can they find
the coaching platform that you're building? So
I'm going to launch it probably in about another
week or two, but it'll be on my website, AaronWilliamson
.net or in any of my social media links in the
handle. Brilliant. Aaron V. Williamson on Instagram
is where I'm most active. I'm still trying to
get the hang of the social media stuff. I mean,
if I didn't have to be on it, man, I wouldn't
be on it. It's literally a double -edged sword.
Of course, it allows you to get things out into
the real world. But from, you know, for example,
the air quotes influencer thing, I had an Instagram
account at one point that had 220 ,000 people
on. And it was just from sharing the podcast,
sharing, you know, stories of positivity. And
it got shut down, like not even a warning, just
smited from the earth. But before it did, you
know, that's a lot of people really in this platform.
And this kind of impression that people have
that, yeah, if you've got this large following,
then you just go on there and you talk about
a product or whatever, and then all of a sudden
everyone's going to buy it. It's bullshit. It
really is. Otherwise, I would have sold a lot
of books and I didn't. So, you know, I think,
you know, being honest and genuine on social
media is, you know, is powerful and it is a way
of disseminating information. But what I've learned
is ultimately it's still, you know, is what you've
got good. It's that simple. If it is good and
honest, then word will get around. That's ultimately
is going to be what what spreads it. And as you
alluded to earlier. If you are a two -dimensional
person touting whatever because that company's
paying you, you might make a little money for
a little bit, but the longevity isn't going to
be there. Yeah. And it waters your brand, waters
your name. Absolutely. Waters down. Well, Aaron,
I want to say thank you. It's been such an amazing
conversation, such an interesting journey that
you've had. within uniform itself and then obviously
you're transitioning to to the acting and stunt
space and then now you know what you're building
with the coaching so i want to thank you so much
for being so generous with your time and coming
on the behind the shield podcast today i appreciate
you it's a pleasure to be on thank you