WEBVTT

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This episode is sponsored by Transcend, a veteran

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firefighter my whole life. Lots of aches and

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transcendcompany .com. Welcome to the Buy and

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Shield podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing,

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and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome

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on the show strength and conditioning coach and

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the public safety wellness coordinator for the

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city of Virginia Beach, Aaron McKissick. Now,

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in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics

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from his journey into the world of strength and

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conditioning, the transition from sporting athletes

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to the tactical athlete population, injury prevention,

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rehabilitation, the 24 -72, team builder, and

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so much more. Now, before we get to this incredible

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conversation, as I say every week, please just

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take a moment, go to whichever app you listen

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to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback,

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and leave a rating. Every single five -star rating

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truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making

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it easier for others to find. And this is a free

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library of well over 1 ,100 episodes now. So

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all I ask in return is that you help share these

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incredible men and women's stories so I can get

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them to every single person on planet Earth who

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needs to hear them. So that being said, I introduce

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to you... Aaron McKissick. Enjoy. Well, Aaron,

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I want to start by saying two things. Firstly,

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thank you to Melissa Mercado for initially suggesting

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that we connect. And then Virginia Beach, Sean

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Betts, that reached out as well, made this connection.

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So thank you to both of them. And then I want

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to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield podcast

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today. Thank you. Appreciate you having me. So

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where on planet Earth are we finding you this

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afternoon? In Virginia Beach, Virginia, at our

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fire training center. You know, in just one of

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our offices, you know, this is a pretty big complex.

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A lot of people coming and going around here.

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So sometimes it's hard to find places to do things

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like these. And then I'll warn anyone that listens,

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you might hear some jet noise. We have Oceana

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Jet Base right behind us and it gets really loud

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around here. So sometimes it's even hard inside.

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So forewarning. Beautiful. All right. Well, very

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first question. I want to go back to your origin

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story, as it were. So tell me where you were

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born and tell me a little bit about your family

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dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings.

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Yeah. So I grew up in really rural Pennsylvania,

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northwest Pennsylvania, in a small little town.

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I jokingly, when I talk to everyone, I tell them

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I graduated with 52 kids. um so you know me moving

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out and and everything has been quite an eye

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-opening experience my mom worked in a hospital

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setting and my father was a forest warden um

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so from an early age i was very active either

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hiking or whatever not um and then obviously

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got into sports um what thought i was going to

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go into medical field kind of following my mom

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a little bit i actually started school as wanting

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to be a pa did some shadowing in pa and uh did

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it in real rural settings so i all i saw was

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like it's not in those little kids and stuff

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like that and i was like this isn't interesting

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and i made the switch to pt uh and then uh once

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again real rural setting and all i saw was a

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lot of temporal knee extensions of you know 70

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and 80 year old ladies and guys i was like well

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this is really boring i was like i won't like

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that either so i was kind of running out of line

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then finally i had a professor say, hey, why

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don't you try strength and conditioning? You're

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an in -shape guy. I think you like it. And kind

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of stuck with it. And it's kind of really evolved

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just from strength and conditioning. I slowly

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came through the whole myriad of things, I'd

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say. So I started with working with post -bariatric

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surgery patients coming out of college. Then

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I was lucky enough to, at the time, meet ODU's

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team physician, Dr. Anad Kapoor. And he got me

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in. working at ODU, doing an internship and seeing

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how I'd like that. So after I spent some little

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time there, I transferred over into the private

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sector and got lucky enough to where I got to

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train anywhere from professional athletes to

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Olympic athletes. And then it slowly matriculated

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into actually training a police academy out of

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the city of Hampton. So I trained them for eight

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years, mainly focusing on their recruit side

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of things. And then I was lucky enough to gain

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a job with the city of Virginia Beach overseeing

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all their public safety when it came to their

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health and physical wellness and nutrition and

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stuff like that. So it's been a long haul, I'd

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say, from where I started. Well, going all the

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way back to where you started with such a small

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graduating class, it seems like one of the. the

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biggest problems that we face at the moment in

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society is we've lost that tribal element and

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i mean the positive tribal that kind of it takes

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a village mentality how do you look at that kind

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of rural closeness if it was there compared to

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for example the urban life that you're in now

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yeah uh you know everyone knew everyone um where

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i grew up uh you know me working the volunteer

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fire department was at the very bottom of my

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street You know, so when we were kids and growing

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up, that's kind of a meeting point for everyone

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and kind of broke out from there. Our baseball

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coaches to our football coaches, everything,

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everyone was kind of out of there. So everyone

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knew everyone. And jokingly, you know, if you

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got in trouble, someone's going to find out.

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So it's helped. And I think the other good thing

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is it taught me to really understand and foster

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close knit relationships. And it's helped me

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really in the fire service and first responder

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world because what I slowly learned, these guys

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don't trust the outside person. Like you don't

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see what we see every day. You don't understand

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what we're doing and stuff. So I've kind of taken

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that close home net community that I'm used to

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and infiltrated that with the fire service and

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being like, hey, I want to understand what's

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going on in your life and see what kind of like

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things that we have in common so we can grow

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this bond. and see how i can help you and in

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the turn part they can help me too i've learned

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a lot from these guys uh you know not just in

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the fire service or police like just daily everyday

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things it could be mechanical work things you

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can do on your house so uh it's it's very much

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um close to what i grew up with blue collar we'll

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say that did you have any amish communities close

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to you i did not uh they're on the other side

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of the state one of my one of my groomsmen however

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he's from the heart of uh Amish country. So I

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like to throw some jabs at him. I've seen just

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some beautiful videos recently. I think one of

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them was one of the storms or one of the fires

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and the communities got together. And I think

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even maybe even the North Carolina tragedies

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and there were groups of Amish people just throwing

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houses up at a crazy, crazy rate. But, you know,

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it's funny how. And society tends to look down

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on certain cultures. And then you look at that

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culture and go, wait a second, they're actually

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doing a lot of things a lot better than us. So

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have you had any exposure to that culture? And

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if so, what are some of the beautiful things

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that you've seen? So I can say that. So my sister

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lives in the southern part of the state. And

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so they have a lot of Mennonite slash Amish communities.

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That's a derivative, I'd say, of that. And very

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close knit. they they come together like you

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said like i've never seen a house or a barn put

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up faster in my life you know it's crazy but

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they they work together i think they're they're

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really open to uh each other's i in in the community

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each other's ideas and helping out and understanding

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that it takes the the family right or the community

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to build everything and make everything work

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the way they want and you know i commend them

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in the fact that they have stuck to their beliefs

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for all this time and they have an infiltrate

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or rather have an infiltration of like hey some

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outside belief like they've really stuck to it

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where uh you know unfortunately good and bad

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a little bit in the fire service you see that

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you know sometimes like sticking to your guns

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can be good but sometimes there's too much outside

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influence hey this is what this department's

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doing and and and that can create animosity um

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but we can talk about that more so we go but

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it's just interesting that you made me think

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about that when um we talked about communities

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and working together well it's just i think What

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I'm learning as I'm getting older is just how

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important humility is. And so, for example, if

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you listen to Sebastian Junger talking about

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the Iroquois tribe in his book, Tribe, there

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were a lot of people that were taken by the Iroquois

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originally, you know, in the 1800s or whenever

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it was. And then they were air quotes rescued

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by. the Westerners and they ran back to the native

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Americans again, because their culture was actually,

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you know, more enjoyable than the one they'd

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left in the city. So just having the humility,

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no one's doing everything right. That's the thing.

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No one is, has got it down pat. They are perfect.

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So what is it, you know, that we've lost in,

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you know, modern society at the moment and maybe

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the Amish, for example, because a number of people

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that you see struggling. where now both partners

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have to work it's absolutely you know just destroying

00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:21.139
them financially for the daycare and the problem

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is because we've lost that village mentality

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back in the day you know the hunters were out

00:11:25.460 --> 00:11:27.299
the gatherers were out and then there was a certain

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group of people that were helping take care of

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the kids while everyone else was gone because

00:11:31.220 --> 00:11:35.460
they were working together now we're so indoctrinated

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that you've just got to take care of you and

00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:40.649
your house and that's it that now everyone is

00:11:40.649 --> 00:11:42.909
kind of reinventing the wheel and having to pay

00:11:42.909 --> 00:11:46.370
the full cost rather than sharing all the kind

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of responsibilities and costs with an entire

00:11:48.590 --> 00:11:52.230
tribe or village. Yeah, no, I think you're spot

00:11:52.230 --> 00:11:54.690
on. Now, since you've got me thinking this way,

00:11:54.789 --> 00:11:56.690
like there's a huge difference in how I grew

00:11:56.690 --> 00:11:59.870
up in a small town and the likelihood of, you

00:11:59.870 --> 00:12:02.649
know, my parents or my mom was working and me

00:12:02.649 --> 00:12:04.629
be able to go to someone's house. It didn't have

00:12:04.629 --> 00:12:07.190
to be a close like relative. It was, you know,

00:12:07.210 --> 00:12:09.299
it could be someone that's. three streets over

00:12:09.299 --> 00:12:12.740
right and like my parents might have talked to

00:12:12.740 --> 00:12:14.659
him at that baseball practice or something but

00:12:14.659 --> 00:12:16.960
they were totally comfortably fine with me going

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and going to their house after school or or whatever

00:12:19.899 --> 00:12:22.360
not so yeah so i i think in that close to coming

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uh close -knit community that i grew up in that

00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:27.460
you you see that a little bit more a lot a lot

00:12:27.460 --> 00:12:30.679
of trusting you know a little less issues um

00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:32.940
people coming together when you need help and

00:12:32.940 --> 00:12:37.080
it wasn't a big thing so Yeah, absolutely. Well,

00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:38.899
staying with your childhood, what were you doing

00:12:38.899 --> 00:12:43.139
and playing as far as exercise and sport? I grew

00:12:43.139 --> 00:12:45.500
up playing baseball. I did like baseball for

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a while. Then I ended up getting contacts and

00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:50.179
I couldn't see the ball for junk for a while.

00:12:50.220 --> 00:12:53.179
So I had to give up on that. And anyone on here

00:12:53.179 --> 00:12:54.919
that listens knows anything about Pennsylvania.

00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:58.769
Pennsylvania is a huge wrestling state. when

00:12:58.769 --> 00:13:00.389
i was six years old all the way up to when i

00:13:00.389 --> 00:13:03.210
graduated high school i i wrestled and it's kind

00:13:03.210 --> 00:13:05.590
of like a year -round thing up there i did some

00:13:05.590 --> 00:13:07.490
track and cross country but that was primarily

00:13:07.490 --> 00:13:10.429
to stay in shape for wrestling um and get me

00:13:10.429 --> 00:13:12.710
a little bit of rake i i did take one year where

00:13:12.710 --> 00:13:15.409
i played basketball but i'm you know i'm five

00:13:15.409 --> 00:13:18.789
eight so you know my basketball career is not

00:13:18.789 --> 00:13:21.929
gonna last very long but it was fun but you know

00:13:21.929 --> 00:13:26.139
primarily um that's what i did uh i do like to

00:13:26.139 --> 00:13:28.480
cross country ski or rather i did when i when

00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:30.879
i lived in pennsylvania and stuff like that now

00:13:30.879 --> 00:13:33.820
since i moved down here uh you know i'm real

00:13:33.820 --> 00:13:36.019
lucky the firefighting community here is very

00:13:36.019 --> 00:13:38.360
healthy um you know we do a lot of mountain biking

00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:40.240
on the other side of state guys like to hike

00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:43.419
my family my my wife and kids they like to hike

00:13:43.419 --> 00:13:47.100
too so i i you know i'm a big outside guy i grew

00:13:47.100 --> 00:13:49.139
up in the middle of the woods um for the most

00:13:49.139 --> 00:13:52.460
part um so yeah um i didn't have a whole lot

00:13:52.460 --> 00:13:54.379
of organized sports like other than your traditional

00:13:54.379 --> 00:13:57.600
ones uh we didn't have soccer in my high school

00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:00.600
we didn't have uh male volleyball lacrosse anything

00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:03.059
so like when i when i got to college and people

00:14:03.059 --> 00:14:04.659
were like what all did you have i told them i

00:14:04.659 --> 00:14:06.320
was like you know it was like your four main

00:14:06.320 --> 00:14:09.019
sports mine's hockey sorry but yeah we didn't

00:14:09.019 --> 00:14:12.240
have tennis anything so i think there's a lot

00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:15.340
to be said just about a culture of movement and

00:14:15.340 --> 00:14:19.379
being out in nature and you know um just play

00:14:19.379 --> 00:14:21.279
doesn't have to be organized specifically when

00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:24.720
i was in um my school in bath which is you know

00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:27.120
it's a city in england but we didn't have a good

00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:29.159
sports program as far as well let me rephrase

00:14:29.159 --> 00:14:31.899
that we didn't have a strong competitive sports

00:14:31.899 --> 00:14:34.740
program but there was a culture you're always

00:14:34.740 --> 00:14:36.659
doing something p whether it was you know literally

00:14:36.659 --> 00:14:39.159
like the victorian wooden beams that you're doing

00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:41.080
pull -ups and climbing ropes or if it was cross

00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:44.659
-country runs but It created a culture of movement

00:14:44.659 --> 00:14:46.580
and we would play football, you know, soccer

00:14:46.580 --> 00:14:51.000
out on the concrete. And then we play rounders,

00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:53.360
which is like one handed baseball with an old

00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:55.940
table, excuse me, a chair leg that we had in

00:14:55.940 --> 00:14:58.340
a tennis ball. So you didn't have to have all

00:14:58.340 --> 00:15:00.360
the fancy stuff. People were just being out there

00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:02.500
and moving. And I feel like that's because I

00:15:02.500 --> 00:15:04.980
grew up in a rural setting, too, on a farm. I

00:15:04.980 --> 00:15:07.000
feel like that's what we've kind of lost on the

00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:10.279
countryside. We've become so focused on winning.

00:15:10.759 --> 00:15:12.559
know and squeezing performance and i've said

00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:14.840
this for many of the coaches on here arguably

00:15:14.840 --> 00:15:17.740
at the expense of the high school athlete or

00:15:17.740 --> 00:15:21.340
the college athletes longevity and wellness and

00:15:21.340 --> 00:15:26.440
almost dissuaded kids to simply play yeah i i

00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:29.200
definitely agree with you there um i think you

00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:32.080
know i'm a big multi -sports belief where everyone

00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:34.240
should play different things and and you know

00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:37.559
you don't have to do year in year out um baseball

00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:40.669
basketball whatever and i i think the other benefit

00:15:40.669 --> 00:15:43.490
of that as you talk about communal here is you're

00:15:43.490 --> 00:15:44.710
going to meet different people doing different

00:15:44.710 --> 00:15:47.570
sports you know if you strictly stick to basketball

00:15:47.570 --> 00:15:49.230
you're going to see the same basketball people

00:15:49.230 --> 00:15:51.669
over and over and over and over and it's not

00:15:51.669 --> 00:15:54.090
going to help you especially in our field as

00:15:54.090 --> 00:15:56.490
you get older and you go and you meet different

00:15:56.490 --> 00:15:59.090
types of personalities individuals like you you

00:15:59.090 --> 00:16:00.409
better learn how to talk to different people

00:16:00.409 --> 00:16:02.610
real fast if you want to make a connection but

00:16:02.610 --> 00:16:04.750
if you're only used to one type of person and

00:16:04.750 --> 00:16:06.750
and you know This is how the elite basketball

00:16:06.750 --> 00:16:09.490
players and this family and that. I don't think

00:16:09.490 --> 00:16:12.409
it helps you. I think going and meeting different

00:16:12.409 --> 00:16:15.009
people and different family structures and all

00:16:15.009 --> 00:16:18.190
that can go a long way. And then just having

00:16:18.190 --> 00:16:20.049
common ground to talk and meet people, I think,

00:16:20.049 --> 00:16:23.049
is a tough part for some people to do nowadays.

00:16:23.309 --> 00:16:25.190
So they're so stuck in their beliefs and their

00:16:25.190 --> 00:16:27.710
mindset that they're being open. Absolutely.

00:16:28.070 --> 00:16:30.850
Well, you mentioned about the kind of rural setting

00:16:30.850 --> 00:16:32.610
that you were initially exposed to when it came

00:16:32.610 --> 00:16:35.590
to medicine. I've had conversations with some

00:16:35.590 --> 00:16:39.149
people as far as almost like healthcare deserts

00:16:39.149 --> 00:16:41.330
now. A lot of these facilities are closing down

00:16:41.330 --> 00:16:43.830
and some of our rural populations don't have

00:16:43.830 --> 00:16:47.950
healthcare accessible anymore. You kind of grew

00:16:47.950 --> 00:16:49.750
up in that. What are you seeing, if anything,

00:16:49.950 --> 00:16:52.389
as far as the deterioration of rural medicine?

00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:56.019
uh you know i don't i don't make a home a whole

00:16:56.019 --> 00:16:59.179
lot um i can just speak firsthand so you you

00:16:59.179 --> 00:17:02.200
know where i grew up i'll tell you i had a bad

00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:04.759
motorcycle accident i have a rod in my leg like

00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:07.579
for me to have the rod put in they put me on

00:17:07.579 --> 00:17:11.079
a helo and they flew me you know to erie pennsylvania

00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:13.559
to have it in so like that's the economy of the

00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:16.799
difference of like the rural health care versus

00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:18.619
you know when you get into more of a metro style

00:17:18.619 --> 00:17:21.119
health care and the specialties that you have

00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:27.119
now i do know that our hospital system or small

00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:28.779
hospital where i live like they are obviously

00:17:28.779 --> 00:17:31.059
absorbed by university of pittsburgh medical

00:17:31.059 --> 00:17:33.559
so like what you're finding is big companies

00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:35.660
are coming in and taking these on now i don't

00:17:35.660 --> 00:17:37.200
know what that means to the quality of health

00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:42.200
care or anything in these areas um but yeah so

00:17:42.200 --> 00:17:46.039
you know so was it physical therapy that you

00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:48.500
found yourself in initially after you kind of

00:17:48.500 --> 00:17:51.609
graduated It was actually, I wanted to go to

00:17:51.609 --> 00:17:54.349
school to be a PA. I thought, you know, I wanted

00:17:54.349 --> 00:17:56.710
to help people. But then when I, honestly, like

00:17:56.710 --> 00:18:00.029
I said, I saw this 90 -nose little kid for, you

00:18:00.029 --> 00:18:01.930
know, person after person after person. I was

00:18:01.930 --> 00:18:04.750
like, oh, this would just be boring. And then

00:18:04.750 --> 00:18:07.190
I was like, oh, physical therapy would be cool.

00:18:07.690 --> 00:18:09.809
You know, helping people get in shape, you know.

00:18:09.869 --> 00:18:13.210
And then once I went in and it was just. All

00:18:13.210 --> 00:18:15.369
right, we're going to put you on an arm bike

00:18:15.369 --> 00:18:17.029
to warm you up. Or, you know, we're going to

00:18:17.029 --> 00:18:18.809
give you a heat pack at that time to warm you

00:18:18.809 --> 00:18:21.890
up. And then it's all right, stretch. All right.

00:18:21.890 --> 00:18:24.450
All right, Ms. Johnson, move the knee 10 times.

00:18:25.490 --> 00:18:27.369
I want to say this. My wife's a physical therapist.

00:18:27.410 --> 00:18:31.009
So if any PTs, like, listen, I love your job

00:18:31.009 --> 00:18:33.670
and everything. But I tell you, it's just not

00:18:33.670 --> 00:18:35.349
for me. Like, maybe if you're working on the

00:18:35.349 --> 00:18:38.690
professional level. or you're you know working

00:18:38.690 --> 00:18:41.869
on a high level like special ops guys or whatever

00:18:41.869 --> 00:18:44.509
where it's a little bit different and you're

00:18:44.509 --> 00:18:47.529
getting them back to where they need to do do

00:18:47.529 --> 00:18:49.109
or what they need to do for training missions

00:18:49.109 --> 00:18:52.829
versus your active daily lives right um i joke

00:18:52.829 --> 00:18:54.950
with our guys as like you know pts are great

00:18:54.950 --> 00:18:57.069
but they don't understand the job of a fireman

00:18:57.069 --> 00:18:59.430
right their job is to get you back to where you

00:18:59.430 --> 00:19:01.910
were and so you can i jokingly say so you can

00:19:01.910 --> 00:19:05.220
wipe your butt right Their job is not to get

00:19:05.220 --> 00:19:07.299
you to be able to climb to the 36th floor of

00:19:07.299 --> 00:19:10.259
the Westin under gear, everything like that.

00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:12.440
That's not what their objective is. That's what

00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:14.339
your objective is, to make sure you can do that

00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:16.720
efficiently. But their objective is not that.

00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:20.599
And so I, as you know, I'm that bridge to that

00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:23.279
position. Absolutely. Well, we'll take a deep

00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:25.259
dive in that because that's exactly what I encountered

00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:28.460
after meniscus surgeries and a back injury as

00:19:28.460 --> 00:19:31.779
far as the PT side. you mentioned about taking

00:19:31.779 --> 00:19:35.960
care of people after bariatric surgery um firstly

00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:37.839
i want to talk about some of the options that

00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:39.759
are available now as far as people in obesity

00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:42.319
but just talk to me about that experience in

00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:46.220
general yeah so uh that was very interesting

00:19:46.220 --> 00:19:48.640
because you could have someone coming in that

00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:51.019
could walk through the door right and this was

00:19:51.019 --> 00:19:54.579
usually six weeks post bariatric surgery um you

00:19:54.579 --> 00:19:56.339
have someone walk through the doors fine and

00:19:56.339 --> 00:19:58.740
i've had people come through on rascals right

00:19:58.740 --> 00:20:01.380
little cars you know and you're like okay you

00:20:01.380 --> 00:20:03.319
got to help them and teach them and educate them

00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:06.319
on what kind of exercises they should be doing

00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:09.019
you know that's within their capabilities so

00:20:09.019 --> 00:20:13.059
i had to learn real fast early in my career how

00:20:13.059 --> 00:20:15.660
to be creative you know because if you can't

00:20:15.660 --> 00:20:17.900
get some up out of a out of a wheelchair like

00:20:17.900 --> 00:20:19.720
what are you going to do if like your whole mindset

00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:22.019
says oh we're going to do these air squats or

00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:25.589
whatever not so It taught me how to be real creative

00:20:25.589 --> 00:20:29.509
and learn and use whatever equipment I have around

00:20:29.509 --> 00:20:32.009
me, so to speak. So that was very interesting.

00:20:32.130 --> 00:20:35.369
And then I think what was more challenging for

00:20:35.369 --> 00:20:38.950
me was to understand their psyche. These people

00:20:38.950 --> 00:20:43.329
obviously wanted to get better, right? Now, to

00:20:43.329 --> 00:20:46.509
the level that they want to get better, I couldn't

00:20:46.509 --> 00:20:48.150
really tell you. Sometimes I felt like, yeah,

00:20:48.250 --> 00:20:51.669
they want to make lifelong changes. personality

00:20:51.669 --> 00:20:54.130
changes and that's what it was going to take

00:20:54.130 --> 00:20:56.150
to be really healthy right a psychological change

00:20:56.150 --> 00:20:59.349
of how you handle your your daily lives but i

00:20:59.349 --> 00:21:01.369
think there's then others that just wanted a

00:21:01.369 --> 00:21:03.430
quick fix right oh i want to lose some weight

00:21:03.430 --> 00:21:06.289
and whatever and then okay i've lost this weight

00:21:06.289 --> 00:21:08.329
now i can go back to eating how i normally do

00:21:08.329 --> 00:21:11.369
because now i'm skinny so it was very interesting

00:21:11.369 --> 00:21:13.390
to try to get a better understanding of their

00:21:13.390 --> 00:21:16.009
psyches you know when we're going through this

00:21:16.009 --> 00:21:19.259
whole process so you know learning different

00:21:19.259 --> 00:21:21.880
ways to train individuals talk to people and

00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:25.039
understanding psyches was a huge part of just

00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:29.500
my bariatric experience in general um that yeah

00:21:29.500 --> 00:21:31.740
once again it's helped me in this in this field

00:21:31.740 --> 00:21:34.240
in this career you know because some people want

00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:36.059
to go and become the fire chief and some people

00:21:36.059 --> 00:21:39.160
want to stay the base level guy that's on that

00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:41.599
wants to just ride the truck for 30 years so

00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:43.519
it's you have to understand that everyone has

00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:46.059
different goals admirations and everything but

00:21:46.059 --> 00:21:48.220
at the end of the day Just like the bariatric

00:21:48.220 --> 00:21:50.599
person wanted to lose weight, this guy wants

00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:53.339
to be a fireman and wants to be good at his job.

00:21:53.460 --> 00:21:56.119
So you find the core of what they're trying to

00:21:56.119 --> 00:22:00.480
get out of. Did you ever kind of come across

00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:02.859
what seemed to be common denominators between

00:22:02.859 --> 00:22:05.779
the backstory of some of these people that were

00:22:05.779 --> 00:22:12.720
grossly obese? You know, unfortunately, I would

00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:18.950
say a lot of them. came from less than affluent

00:22:18.950 --> 00:22:23.650
communities or families. I wouldn't say I had

00:22:23.650 --> 00:22:25.329
people coming through the door that told me that

00:22:25.329 --> 00:22:28.690
on a normal day, they were like, I make six figures.

00:22:29.549 --> 00:22:31.930
The majority of the time, it wasn't those people.

00:22:32.009 --> 00:22:34.710
It was people that were on Medicare, Medicaid,

00:22:35.069 --> 00:22:38.109
stuff like that, unfortunately. And it was reactive

00:22:38.109 --> 00:22:41.410
to things and health issues that have happened

00:22:41.410 --> 00:22:44.140
in life rather than the proactive side. which

00:22:44.140 --> 00:22:46.759
I think is a whole nother day of discussion as

00:22:46.759 --> 00:22:50.140
far as how medicine treats us nowadays. I'm more,

00:22:50.220 --> 00:22:53.480
let's be proactive. Now we'll get it on the backside.

00:22:53.740 --> 00:22:55.960
So, but that's primarily what I found is like,

00:22:56.039 --> 00:22:57.819
you know, like I said, like there wasn't a lot

00:22:57.819 --> 00:23:00.579
of people that were, in my experience now, I'm

00:23:00.579 --> 00:23:02.400
not saying this is nationwide, like that these

00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:04.599
are individuals that tend to come from a little

00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:08.259
harder situations, you know, so. Yeah, I think

00:23:08.259 --> 00:23:10.339
it's such an important point. And it mirrors,

00:23:10.420 --> 00:23:12.539
again, going to the fire service. When I talk

00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:15.579
about firefighter fitness and firefighter fitness

00:23:15.579 --> 00:23:19.240
standards and that kind of thing is, yeah, ownership

00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:21.460
is part of it, but environment is the other part.

00:23:21.700 --> 00:23:26.140
So, for example, if you have woeful understaffing

00:23:26.140 --> 00:23:28.539
because of decades of mismanagement, and now

00:23:28.539 --> 00:23:31.480
you've got people working 56, 80 -hour work weeks.

00:23:32.580 --> 00:23:34.440
then that's setting them up for failure. And

00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:35.920
I know we're going to take a deep dive into that.

00:23:36.019 --> 00:23:37.940
And it's the same though, with, you know, obesity

00:23:37.940 --> 00:23:41.160
in America, it's all very well for me to stand

00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:45.059
on some, you know, ivory tower and say, well,

00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:46.720
everyone should just make good choices. Well,

00:23:46.819 --> 00:23:50.039
I grew up on a farm in England where we had vegetables

00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:52.539
and we had animals and, you know, I had movement

00:23:52.539 --> 00:23:54.319
woven into my everyday. If I wanted to go to

00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:56.519
the bus stop to school, it was like a, I forget

00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:58.640
exactly, like a mile and a half walk each way.

00:23:58.700 --> 00:24:00.059
You know, if I want to go to town, it was more

00:24:00.059 --> 00:24:03.579
like two miles. you know i my environment was

00:24:03.579 --> 00:24:05.380
very different than someone that grew up in the

00:24:05.380 --> 00:24:08.559
inner city where maybe the bodega or you know

00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:10.940
the local you know liquor store was where we

00:24:10.940 --> 00:24:12.799
got our food you know what i mean and then you

00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:14.960
know the local place to play maybe was riddled

00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:18.900
with gangs so very very different so unpacking

00:24:18.900 --> 00:24:21.279
the why behind it rather than shaming people

00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:23.720
for being obese you know we've got to say are

00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:26.220
we setting up an environment for health and post

00:24:26.220 --> 00:24:29.119
covid we should have figured a lot of this out.

00:24:29.180 --> 00:24:32.500
We should have really kind of doubled down on

00:24:32.500 --> 00:24:35.420
local organic food and bolstering the farmers

00:24:35.420 --> 00:24:38.240
there and removing the shit food from school

00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:40.960
and putting real food in and PE programs and

00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:43.680
pedestrianized downtowns. But none of that was

00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:46.640
done. And so this is what really saddens me is

00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:49.700
we'll talk about certain incidents based on race

00:24:49.700 --> 00:24:53.000
or whatever it is, but obesity is killing millions

00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:55.500
of Americans. And you don't see any of these

00:24:55.500 --> 00:24:58.140
kind of ethnic figures standing up advocating

00:24:58.140 --> 00:25:01.000
against that or fentanyl overdose or all these

00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:03.400
other areas because this is a product of the

00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:05.779
environment. And you can't just make good choices

00:25:05.779 --> 00:25:10.180
when your entire baseline is completely related

00:25:10.180 --> 00:25:13.259
to this distorted reality that you've been raised

00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:18.759
in. Yeah, no, I agree with you. It's tough. When

00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:22.519
you look at this, you have to look how people

00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:26.140
are raised. uh what kind of community foods they

00:25:26.140 --> 00:25:28.480
like to eat and so like there's a lot of a lot

00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:30.900
of stuff that comes into just poor health decisions

00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:33.140
it's not just they woke up one day and they're

00:25:33.140 --> 00:25:35.400
like i just want to eat doritos right like i

00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:38.299
feel like eating habits are kind of built like

00:25:38.299 --> 00:25:42.019
i have two two six year old twins right and their

00:25:42.019 --> 00:25:44.319
eating habits are going to be slightly based

00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:46.799
off of what me and my wife feed them right let's

00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:49.380
be honest uh so i i think that's important to

00:25:49.380 --> 00:25:51.619
know like you know if you have a little one you

00:25:51.619 --> 00:25:53.200
know get them used to eating the vegetables.

00:25:53.259 --> 00:25:55.319
I'm not saying you got to feed nothing but vegetables

00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:57.460
to them like they're little kids, right? But

00:25:57.460 --> 00:26:00.440
like, introduce them to different foods and activity

00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:03.480
and play. Going back to what we talked about

00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:05.740
earlier. So that's one thing I even though my

00:26:05.740 --> 00:26:08.059
girls are six, I in my head, I can't fathom.

00:26:08.059 --> 00:26:10.220
I'm like, why do you want to be inside? Like,

00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:12.200
all I remember when I was a kid as I was outside

00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:13.900
in the neighborhood playing with everyone, you

00:26:13.900 --> 00:26:16.980
know, riding bikes or doing sports and stuff.

00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:19.460
I was like, I can't you're you have a twin sister

00:26:19.460 --> 00:26:20.900
and you guys don't even want to play outside

00:26:20.900 --> 00:26:24.000
kicking the ball around i'm like like oh well

00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:26.839
we did that all day at summer camp i'm like so

00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:30.079
what so it you know i just find it interesting

00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:32.440
when you look at this all together and just like

00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:35.859
how shifts in community and you know technology's

00:26:35.859 --> 00:26:37.339
been good but technology's been real bad for

00:26:37.339 --> 00:26:42.200
us as well um so what about the successes of

00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:46.269
the bariatric patients i've lost a fire academy

00:26:46.269 --> 00:26:49.970
classmate and my wife's best friend to side effects

00:26:49.970 --> 00:26:53.369
and bariatric surgery. And, you know, I think

00:26:53.369 --> 00:26:56.329
that it has a place if you are literally at death's

00:26:56.329 --> 00:26:58.329
door, it's kind of a Hail Mary on the surgical

00:26:58.329 --> 00:27:00.690
side. But I feel like, I mean, certainly both

00:27:00.690 --> 00:27:03.730
of those two were no means, you know, morbidly,

00:27:03.730 --> 00:27:05.789
morbidly obese. They were overweight, definitely

00:27:05.789 --> 00:27:09.059
maybe clinically obese, but not. to the point

00:27:09.059 --> 00:27:11.299
of, you know, an emergency action needing to

00:27:11.299 --> 00:27:14.099
be happened. So what is your perspective of the

00:27:14.099 --> 00:27:17.420
efficacy and the dangers of that particular routine

00:27:17.420 --> 00:27:20.940
surgery? So that's a great question. So, you

00:27:20.940 --> 00:27:23.500
know, I've, I've seen as old into like, I think

00:27:23.500 --> 00:27:27.859
61 or 62, and I've seen as young as 18. Right.

00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:31.470
I think doing at 18. So. I remember I had one

00:27:31.470 --> 00:27:34.910
doctor who was like strictly against like doing

00:27:34.910 --> 00:27:36.809
young. He's like, no, they still have time to

00:27:36.809 --> 00:27:40.410
make life choices and changes. I think exactly

00:27:40.410 --> 00:27:42.529
what you talked about. If it comes to a point

00:27:42.529 --> 00:27:45.089
where, you know, you're starting to knock on

00:27:45.089 --> 00:27:48.430
death's door, right? Let's go ahead and do those

00:27:48.430 --> 00:27:53.430
measures. However, I do think that if we had

00:27:53.430 --> 00:27:57.089
health care programs in place, right, that would,

00:27:57.269 --> 00:28:00.950
you know. allow you to like use your use your

00:28:00.950 --> 00:28:03.829
insurance right to go get fitness to go get uh

00:28:03.829 --> 00:28:06.650
nutrition food training whatever i think it would

00:28:06.650 --> 00:28:09.430
go a long ways versus paying i don't even know

00:28:09.430 --> 00:28:11.369
what the amount of what how much it costs for

00:28:11.369 --> 00:28:14.109
bariatric surgeries now but you know paying let's

00:28:14.109 --> 00:28:15.869
just say fifteen thousand dollars to have this

00:28:15.869 --> 00:28:19.309
surgery done right um i just i just think it's

00:28:19.309 --> 00:28:22.210
it's the wrong way to look at things like let's

00:28:22.210 --> 00:28:25.470
be proactive right and the cost the long -term

00:28:25.470 --> 00:28:29.279
cost is a lot less right versus okay we'll keep

00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:31.819
feeding you diabetes medicine all this blood

00:28:31.819 --> 00:28:34.420
pressure medicine up this and then okay now we're

00:28:34.420 --> 00:28:36.339
gonna throw this huge price tag surgery on you

00:28:36.339 --> 00:28:38.900
at the end right just to kind of bring you back

00:28:38.900 --> 00:28:40.940
down to where you should have been had we been

00:28:40.940 --> 00:28:44.799
proactive right off the bat so you know i i think

00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:48.180
it's tough um i i get it you know people want

00:28:48.180 --> 00:28:50.799
to try to make better health decisions and sometimes

00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:53.539
they wait too long into the game but um i just

00:28:53.539 --> 00:28:55.539
think we need to be more proactive especially

00:28:55.539 --> 00:28:57.980
when it comes to bariatric surgery and stuff

00:28:57.980 --> 00:29:01.519
like that so yeah i mean certainly the proactive

00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:04.359
side like i said you know that's where we should

00:29:04.359 --> 00:29:07.180
be at but after a pandemic if still no you know

00:29:07.180 --> 00:29:09.319
no action happened then i don't i don't know

00:29:09.319 --> 00:29:11.039
when it's going to happen so it's up to the people

00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:13.680
on the ground to really push and vote with their

00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:16.680
dollar as well but i had a guy on johan hari

00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:18.940
talking about a zen pic he wrote a whole book

00:29:18.940 --> 00:29:21.799
on it okay and what's interesting about that

00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:25.170
you know i'm Again, opposed to anyone who's just

00:29:25.170 --> 00:29:26.869
trying to lose a little weight using that because

00:29:26.869 --> 00:29:28.910
it just doesn't make any sense to risk, you know,

00:29:28.910 --> 00:29:30.930
pharmaceutical when you just need to be patient

00:29:30.930 --> 00:29:33.470
and diligent. And if you've got the tools and

00:29:33.470 --> 00:29:35.730
you've got the ability to do that, then that's

00:29:35.730 --> 00:29:38.890
hands down the best route. But if you are now

00:29:38.890 --> 00:29:42.660
getting towards the more obese side. I think

00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:45.099
what's good about Zempik is it's a much safer

00:29:45.099 --> 00:29:47.799
alternative to bariatric surgery. And it does

00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:49.859
seem to be very effective as well. So I think,

00:29:49.859 --> 00:29:51.759
you know, again, there's no black and white.

00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:53.480
I think that's the middle ground for those kind

00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:55.599
of drugs. You know, if you're trying to get to

00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:58.299
3 % body fat, then you probably shouldn't, you

00:29:58.299 --> 00:30:01.400
know. But, you know, if you're, you know, you've

00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:05.359
got 100 extra pounds on a 5 '4 frame, then maybe,

00:30:05.380 --> 00:30:07.339
yeah, that is the one to get you back down to

00:30:07.339 --> 00:30:10.269
kind of reset. And as you're doing that, you're

00:30:10.269 --> 00:30:13.769
starting to develop the exercise habits and the

00:30:13.769 --> 00:30:15.950
nutrition habits and the mental health practices

00:30:15.950 --> 00:30:18.710
so that once you get to that healthy weight,

00:30:18.809 --> 00:30:20.910
you can come off and hopefully sustain after

00:30:20.910 --> 00:30:24.910
that. Yeah, no, I think you're spot on. And I

00:30:24.910 --> 00:30:26.589
know a couple of people on Ozempic, but they're

00:30:26.589 --> 00:30:30.410
not trying to lose. They need to lose weight,

00:30:30.450 --> 00:30:31.730
but they're not trying to lose hundreds of pounds.

00:30:31.789 --> 00:30:35.769
But much like you talked about, the Ozempic is

00:30:35.769 --> 00:30:37.980
doing all the work. I don't necessarily know

00:30:37.980 --> 00:30:39.380
if they're always changing their eating habits.

00:30:39.559 --> 00:30:41.920
I can tell you, I know most of their exercise

00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:44.720
habits don't normally change a whole lot. So

00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:49.220
it's like the free ride, so to speak. So it's

00:30:49.220 --> 00:30:53.000
tough. One thing I don't like about my time during,

00:30:53.119 --> 00:30:57.200
now this is probably about 15 years ago, my time

00:30:57.200 --> 00:30:58.920
working with bariatric surgery patients is that

00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:02.039
the nutrition, I think the nutrition counseling

00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:03.740
was hard because these people went from eating

00:31:03.740 --> 00:31:07.089
nothing to being on a strict no carb, pretty

00:31:07.089 --> 00:31:12.029
much keto diet, diet, right? High fat, high protein,

00:31:12.329 --> 00:31:14.769
stuff like that. And then, okay, and then they

00:31:14.769 --> 00:31:18.509
start introducing carbs back. So we're, in my

00:31:18.509 --> 00:31:20.289
mind, you're talking about three different diets,

00:31:20.329 --> 00:31:23.349
like in a relatively, let's say, in a six month

00:31:23.349 --> 00:31:28.109
span, right of eating anything to eating nothing

00:31:28.109 --> 00:31:29.970
straight. And then we're like, okay, now we're

00:31:29.970 --> 00:31:32.450
going to teach you go. So I think psychology,

00:31:32.450 --> 00:31:34.549
psychologically, that has to be tough. I know

00:31:34.549 --> 00:31:36.890
be hard, tough on me. And I'm in shape to go

00:31:36.890 --> 00:31:40.049
from this diet to that diet to this diet. The

00:31:40.049 --> 00:31:41.609
only type of people I know that normally do that

00:31:41.609 --> 00:31:43.430
are someone that's getting paid for how they

00:31:43.430 --> 00:31:48.170
look on a stage. But there's a difference in

00:31:48.170 --> 00:31:50.349
that. They're getting paid to do it versus someone

00:31:50.349 --> 00:31:53.990
that's doing it for other reasons. Yeah, absolutely.

00:31:55.269 --> 00:31:57.269
I had something I was going to say. Let me just

00:31:57.269 --> 00:32:00.089
get my tiny brain to recall what I was about

00:32:00.089 --> 00:32:03.960
to say then. Oh, that was it. Well, I think the

00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:06.299
other thing that we have to be mindful of, and

00:32:06.299 --> 00:32:09.640
again, Johan Hari gives an example in this book.

00:32:10.259 --> 00:32:12.019
He talks about, actually, it was in one of his

00:32:12.019 --> 00:32:16.119
other books. There was a weight loss study. They

00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:18.980
did just IV nutrition. And they had this one

00:32:18.980 --> 00:32:21.539
woman who was an absolute rock star of the study,

00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:24.640
lost the most weight of everyone. And then one

00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:27.240
day she just disappeared, fell off the wagon.

00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:30.859
And they found her and she started eating again,

00:32:30.900 --> 00:32:33.640
put on a bunch of weight. And one of the members

00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:37.920
of the study had kind of taken the time to actually

00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:40.700
sit down with her and have a conversation. Let's

00:32:40.700 --> 00:32:42.539
see if we can unpack what happened, what went

00:32:42.539 --> 00:32:45.779
wrong. And he got to the point where he was talking

00:32:45.779 --> 00:32:48.400
about her early life. And he said, well, how

00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:50.740
old were you when you remember eating the way

00:32:50.740 --> 00:32:52.640
you eat now? And she said, I think it was like

00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:55.440
10. And he said, was there anything that happened

00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:57.759
that was significant in your life around that

00:32:57.759 --> 00:32:59.480
age? And she said, yeah, that's when my grandfather

00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:03.160
started sexually abusing me. And so what they

00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:06.920
realize is as this woman lost weight, she started,

00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:09.299
you know, gleaning the attention of men again.

00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:11.759
And she didn't like it. It was a negative in

00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:14.799
her psychology. So the thing that bariatric and

00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:17.460
the Zempik isn't addressing is what was that

00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:20.079
underlying psychological element when it came

00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:23.559
to the weight gain. And so if you're not simultaneously

00:33:23.559 --> 00:33:26.579
addressing, you know, some of the issues that

00:33:26.579 --> 00:33:28.200
obviously you've stuffed down and you're filling

00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:30.839
that void with food. then you are going to start

00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:32.660
eating again and you are going to reverse your

00:33:32.660 --> 00:33:36.220
bariatric or the weight loss that you got from

00:33:36.220 --> 00:33:38.599
a Zempik. And now you're going to be diving back

00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:41.960
in again and probably getting even worse. Yeah,

00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:46.059
no, like I said, when I was there, we were doing,

00:33:46.140 --> 00:33:48.579
before you even had the surgery, you had to go

00:33:48.579 --> 00:33:52.380
through a psychological eval. And what that entailed,

00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:54.339
I don't know. Obviously, they wouldn't know you,

00:33:54.339 --> 00:33:56.180
but I just know that you had to go through one

00:33:56.180 --> 00:33:59.220
and you had to be approved. they go through but

00:33:59.220 --> 00:34:01.259
i didn't you know unfortunately i don't remember

00:34:01.259 --> 00:34:05.180
too many people being told no you know um and

00:34:05.180 --> 00:34:07.440
do i i couldn't tell you whether there was a

00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:11.699
follow -up as far as the psyche eval um for it

00:34:11.699 --> 00:34:14.099
after like so like you said in in your example

00:34:14.099 --> 00:34:16.360
right if someone like that came through did they

00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:18.760
do it then do the bariatric surgery and then

00:34:18.760 --> 00:34:21.860
did they continuously have psychological follow

00:34:21.860 --> 00:34:24.840
-ups to make sure that they're really getting

00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:27.599
at the root of the issue as far as why they're

00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:29.860
eating so i don't know but i i think that is

00:34:29.860 --> 00:34:35.139
a total sign of a lot of issues right um food

00:34:35.139 --> 00:34:37.639
is comfort let's be honest right food's comfort

00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:41.340
so you know if if you're feeling bad or or whatnot

00:34:41.340 --> 00:34:44.139
you'll tend to go to the cupboard to eat to make

00:34:44.139 --> 00:34:46.300
yourself feel a little better and stuff and then

00:34:46.300 --> 00:34:49.320
eventually it goes the opposite way right where

00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:51.679
now food is starting to make you feel bad right

00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:54.039
both mentally and physically you know how you

00:34:54.039 --> 00:34:56.480
move how you look and stuff like that And it's

00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:59.780
just a vicious, vicious cycle. Absolutely. Well,

00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:01.539
it's funny because it mirrors the fire service

00:35:01.539 --> 00:35:05.699
as well. The psych test that I was given, all

00:35:05.699 --> 00:35:08.719
four departments, is called the MMPI, the Minnesota

00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:13.119
Multiphasic Personality Interview. And as I started

00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:15.239
getting deeper into this and, you know, critically

00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:16.940
thinking more because I'm learning from all these

00:35:16.940 --> 00:35:20.719
guests, I started asking the psychologists, psychiatrists

00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:22.659
about this test and said, hey, this is what we're

00:35:22.659 --> 00:35:26.599
given. And hands down, every single one has said,

00:35:26.599 --> 00:35:28.159
well, that was never meant to be a standalone

00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:31.440
test. Definitely not to define someone's ability

00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:34.239
to be a first responder. So even when we are

00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:36.960
given tests, like you said, it may appear like

00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:40.280
it's official. Doesn't mean it's actually doing

00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:42.539
anything. And in this case, that really isn't.

00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:47.199
learning about that person and discovering if

00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:48.880
they have the ability to do this job. And then

00:35:48.880 --> 00:35:50.960
you're talking about ongoing, you know, in a

00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:52.900
bariatric setting, it's the same with us. You

00:35:52.900 --> 00:35:55.659
do one at the front door and that's it. Congratulations,

00:35:55.980 --> 00:35:58.380
you're in. Good luck. Not talking about what

00:35:58.380 --> 00:36:00.340
you brought into the job, not allowing you to

00:36:00.340 --> 00:36:02.900
unpack as you go through the job. So there is

00:36:02.900 --> 00:36:05.940
a similarity, that box checking version of psychology

00:36:05.940 --> 00:36:09.920
versus actually trying to heal the person. Yeah.

00:36:11.869 --> 00:36:14.329
Now you made me think whether or not, I don't

00:36:14.329 --> 00:36:18.190
know, like does every professional firefighting

00:36:18.190 --> 00:36:22.349
department, do they do exit clinical evals? Oh,

00:36:22.349 --> 00:36:25.230
no. I've never heard of one doing that. So that's

00:36:25.230 --> 00:36:27.230
why I'm just curious. I was like, I know of none

00:36:27.230 --> 00:36:30.030
that do it. So, you know, like, oh, we're going

00:36:30.030 --> 00:36:32.150
to put all these programs in place and whether

00:36:32.150 --> 00:36:34.750
or not. But as soon as you put your papers in,

00:36:34.869 --> 00:36:38.920
best of luck. You know, that's unfortunate. When

00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:40.800
you really look at it, that made me think about

00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:43.780
that. Well, I've always said this on the show,

00:36:43.900 --> 00:36:47.360
we don't have a VA. And so when you see numbers

00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:50.739
of supposed line of duty deaths or fatalities,

00:36:51.500 --> 00:36:55.420
they're truly the tip of the iceberg. Because

00:36:55.420 --> 00:36:57.699
the moment you walk out that back door for the

00:36:57.699 --> 00:37:00.300
last time, you cease to be a statistic. If I

00:37:00.300 --> 00:37:03.460
dropped dead today, I wouldn't appear on a firefighter

00:37:03.460 --> 00:37:07.300
death. So we're missing the magnitude of the

00:37:07.300 --> 00:37:09.730
issue. by exactly what you're talking about,

00:37:09.849 --> 00:37:11.789
just casting people off and being, all right,

00:37:11.789 --> 00:37:13.469
good luck with all your physical injuries and

00:37:13.469 --> 00:37:15.570
your mental injuries and you're not a problem

00:37:15.570 --> 00:37:19.170
anymore versus the military side where it may

00:37:19.170 --> 00:37:21.070
not be a perfect system, but at least it's set

00:37:21.070 --> 00:37:24.570
up to continue to care for our veterans. Yeah,

00:37:24.650 --> 00:37:28.349
I think that's an excellent point, right? You've

00:37:28.349 --> 00:37:31.570
talked to us about the schedule change and everything.

00:37:31.789 --> 00:37:37.309
You are just wrecking your bodies. interesting

00:37:37.309 --> 00:37:40.010
they they did the the numbers on our department

00:37:40.010 --> 00:37:43.469
and if you work a full career you know uh in

00:37:43.469 --> 00:37:45.250
comparison to the police officers like you're

00:37:45.250 --> 00:37:49.789
gonna work 12 more years in total time and comparatively

00:37:49.789 --> 00:37:52.150
if you put over a 30 -year career in right so

00:37:52.150 --> 00:37:55.269
oh you worked an extra 12 years hey best of luck

00:37:55.269 --> 00:37:57.030
here's here's your paper thanks for your 30 years

00:37:57.030 --> 00:38:03.130
of service right uh it's on you now to take care

00:38:03.130 --> 00:38:05.389
of yourself right and that that's unfortunate

00:38:05.389 --> 00:38:07.269
yeah there's some heart and lung bills in there

00:38:07.269 --> 00:38:09.869
but like outside of that like you know it's not

00:38:09.869 --> 00:38:11.690
like you have the va where you can go to or anything

00:38:11.690 --> 00:38:13.869
like that it's like you know i hope you learn

00:38:13.869 --> 00:38:15.650
something and you know to take care of yourself

00:38:15.650 --> 00:38:19.489
from people like myself and stuff but yeah it's

00:38:19.489 --> 00:38:21.889
challenging i will say this our department we

00:38:21.889 --> 00:38:27.010
invite um our retirees to come back and and partake

00:38:27.010 --> 00:38:29.329
in exercise sessions and stuff like that and

00:38:29.329 --> 00:38:33.179
me and Another gentleman here, Mike, he's here

00:38:33.179 --> 00:38:35.719
to help too. So we'll answer any questions that

00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:38.139
we can have and give you support and what we

00:38:38.139 --> 00:38:40.579
think you should probably go about doing and

00:38:40.579 --> 00:38:42.960
whatnot. So we're trying to be on the forefront

00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:45.960
on that. But in terms of big health, you know,

00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:49.400
knees, hips, backs, all that, no. But yeah, it's

00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:52.099
unfortunate. Well, even this is what people don't

00:38:52.099 --> 00:38:56.699
understand. If FD works 12 years more than PD,

00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:58.519
people will understand that that's for the same

00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:01.900
salary too. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We always, you know,

00:39:01.900 --> 00:39:03.800
bid. Oh, we're trying to stay with PD. Yeah,

00:39:03.860 --> 00:39:07.039
but you work 16, 18 hours more than police does,

00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:09.260
depending on, you know, what you're and that's

00:39:09.260 --> 00:39:11.739
without mandatory overtime. So, you know, this

00:39:11.739 --> 00:39:13.519
is the big kind of smoke and mirrors. And it

00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:17.219
wasn't originally from malice, but we've really

00:39:17.219 --> 00:39:20.550
got to take a step back and go. But why? Why

00:39:20.550 --> 00:39:23.349
do these guys that have an even broader skill

00:39:23.349 --> 00:39:25.349
set than a law enforcement officer, because we

00:39:25.349 --> 00:39:28.449
do the fire and the EMS simultaneously, why are

00:39:28.449 --> 00:39:30.869
they working 12 years more than a police officer

00:39:30.869 --> 00:39:33.869
in the same department? Yeah, it's interesting.

00:39:34.170 --> 00:39:36.869
When departments want to talk about or cities

00:39:36.869 --> 00:39:39.230
want to talk about parity, right? Is it real

00:39:39.230 --> 00:39:41.190
parity or are we just talking about a monetary

00:39:41.190 --> 00:39:43.289
number that's parity? Because if we're talking

00:39:43.289 --> 00:39:46.590
about true work. one guy's away from home a lot

00:39:46.590 --> 00:39:49.090
more than the other individual, you know? So

00:39:49.090 --> 00:39:52.050
it's very interesting. You know, as you know,

00:39:52.070 --> 00:39:54.070
we're working through the numbers right now in

00:39:54.070 --> 00:39:57.289
our department and stuff, and it's very eye -opening,

00:39:57.389 --> 00:40:01.769
you know, to understand. I've heard people say

00:40:01.769 --> 00:40:03.929
that, you know, just in our community and whatnot,

00:40:04.050 --> 00:40:06.349
be like, what, you guys work, wait, you're at

00:40:06.349 --> 00:40:09.050
the fire station all day, all night, 24 hours?

00:40:09.130 --> 00:40:10.389
I'm like, yeah, they don't go home after eight

00:40:10.389 --> 00:40:12.409
hours like I do. You know, they're there all

00:40:12.409 --> 00:40:14.599
night. and stuff like that. So it's interesting,

00:40:14.900 --> 00:40:17.380
right? Especially when you get into like sleep

00:40:17.380 --> 00:40:20.039
deprivation and all that. And like, they're like,

00:40:20.099 --> 00:40:21.780
oh, well, he might get up once. I'm like, no,

00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:23.920
they're getting up on average of five times,

00:40:23.980 --> 00:40:25.900
you know, maybe a night. Like how much sleep

00:40:25.900 --> 00:40:28.099
are you getting up? I wake you up five times

00:40:28.099 --> 00:40:29.099
throughout the night. Cause it's not going to

00:40:29.099 --> 00:40:31.420
be, oh, I get called at midnight. I get called

00:40:31.420 --> 00:40:35.940
at 12, 12, 15, 12, 30. It's not that it's stretched

00:40:35.940 --> 00:40:39.260
out from 12 to seven and it's just rough on their

00:40:39.260 --> 00:40:43.900
bodies, you know? So I hope we see this push

00:40:43.900 --> 00:40:47.119
nationwide into changing the schedule for these

00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:49.559
guys. So, you know, after they've gave all this

00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:52.840
time and effort and loyalty to the community

00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:54.900
that they get to reap some benefits on the back

00:40:54.900 --> 00:40:57.920
end, you know, when they go and retire and everything

00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:01.280
like that. So it's interesting. You know, I think

00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:04.460
as more departments throughout the country go

00:41:04.460 --> 00:41:06.980
to this, you'll see it open up a little bit more.

00:41:07.099 --> 00:41:09.400
And I think it will make people more aware of.

00:41:09.769 --> 00:41:11.969
what these individuals in these fire departments

00:41:11.969 --> 00:41:14.449
are doing other than putting out fires and saving

00:41:14.449 --> 00:41:19.150
people's lives. There's aspects to all that on

00:41:19.150 --> 00:41:22.150
their own end, be it sleep deprivation to the

00:41:22.150 --> 00:41:26.250
mental health aspects. Yeah, 100%. Well, I want

00:41:26.250 --> 00:41:28.250
to get to that in a little bit. Before we do,

00:41:28.289 --> 00:41:30.550
though, let's kind of get to your journey. You

00:41:30.550 --> 00:41:32.269
were dealing with, or dealing with, that sounds

00:41:32.269 --> 00:41:34.510
terrible. You were treating bariatric patients.

00:41:34.650 --> 00:41:38.019
I take that back. What was the road to training

00:41:38.019 --> 00:41:40.420
a tactical athlete? And then how did that ultimately

00:41:40.420 --> 00:41:42.599
bring you to Virginia Beach Fire and Police?

00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:45.800
So the truth is I kind of got lucky. So I was

00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:49.340
working on bariatric patients through the company

00:41:49.340 --> 00:41:52.519
I worked for at the time. And I had a boss that

00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:58.179
had previously came from Exos. And he decided

00:41:58.179 --> 00:42:01.880
to transfer me to a different facility because

00:42:01.880 --> 00:42:03.579
he thought I just had a better skill set than

00:42:03.579 --> 00:42:06.710
what. i was being used for so to speak so you

00:42:06.710 --> 00:42:08.269
know transfer me to the boo williams complex

00:42:08.269 --> 00:42:12.269
in hampton um which is a very ripe aau program

00:42:12.269 --> 00:42:14.969
of anyone ever listened to this though they probably

00:42:14.969 --> 00:42:17.409
know alan iverson or something like that um so

00:42:17.409 --> 00:42:19.289
people like that lonzo morning have all came

00:42:19.289 --> 00:42:22.050
to the system so i went to their facility um

00:42:22.050 --> 00:42:25.929
to train out of and during that time they obviously

00:42:25.929 --> 00:42:27.489
they were trying to grow the business and one

00:42:27.489 --> 00:42:28.929
of the things that came up was hey why don't

00:42:28.929 --> 00:42:32.190
we try to get into the first responder area So

00:42:32.190 --> 00:42:34.469
we had reached out to City Hampton and we're

00:42:34.469 --> 00:42:36.510
like, hey, we'd like to run a pilot program free

00:42:36.510 --> 00:42:42.409
of charge. You know, we'd like to run your organized

00:42:42.409 --> 00:42:44.489
training for your police academy and maybe it

00:42:44.489 --> 00:42:47.289
would come up with something more. So we did

00:42:47.289 --> 00:42:50.710
it for one year. They found very positive results

00:42:50.710 --> 00:42:52.769
in the fact that their injury rates went down

00:42:52.769 --> 00:42:55.690
during during the academy because it was a structured

00:42:55.690 --> 00:42:59.809
class. So so it started that and then expanded

00:42:59.809 --> 00:43:03.389
out to. We'd have RDs come in and talk to these

00:43:03.389 --> 00:43:07.989
guys about not only how to pack lunches for an

00:43:07.989 --> 00:43:09.690
academy, right? Because in an academy, you know

00:43:09.690 --> 00:43:11.489
you're going to be there eight hours a day and

00:43:11.489 --> 00:43:13.489
you're going to come in at six and leave at four

00:43:13.489 --> 00:43:17.170
to, all right, now you're in the streets, right?

00:43:17.309 --> 00:43:19.570
You don't always get to have all the time you

00:43:19.570 --> 00:43:21.050
want, right? So you're going to have to pack

00:43:21.050 --> 00:43:23.469
snacks. So it was an educational process through

00:43:23.469 --> 00:43:25.710
this whole thing. So it's very similar on the

00:43:25.710 --> 00:43:29.880
physical side of it, right? We trained you. to

00:43:29.880 --> 00:43:32.179
get through the academy but with an understanding

00:43:32.179 --> 00:43:33.960
of here's the same movement patterns you can

00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:37.119
do to help you in your career right you'll be

00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:38.860
wearing a vest you'll be sitting there your hips

00:43:38.860 --> 00:43:40.579
hips are going to get tight backs and get tight

00:43:40.579 --> 00:43:42.559
vest is going to affect your shoulder range of

00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:45.360
motion so it was a lot of education as well as

00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:48.559
we went through it um and we kept all kinds of

00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:51.559
stats on injuries and performance and stuff like

00:43:51.559 --> 00:43:55.260
that and turned it into their brass It ended

00:43:55.260 --> 00:43:58.579
up becoming a contract for well over the 10 years

00:43:58.579 --> 00:44:00.340
I was there, and then they continued on when

00:44:00.340 --> 00:44:05.139
I left. So, yeah, so that's what got me to kind

00:44:05.139 --> 00:44:07.840
of to Virginia Beach. And a small little snippet

00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:11.420
in there is I left the Boo Williams facility

00:44:11.420 --> 00:44:14.559
and became a manager of multi -facilities at

00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:17.800
that point. And the one facility that I was at,

00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:21.579
there was firemen coming into there, and they

00:44:21.579 --> 00:44:24.840
talked about the position. to being open um to

00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:26.380
be honest with you the first time it came open

00:44:26.380 --> 00:44:29.719
i uh did not apply my other friend who works

00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:31.920
with xos he works with the players association

00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:35.400
there he was like he got he got offered position

00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:37.300
didn't want to move from arizona in the end turned

00:44:37.300 --> 00:44:40.500
down he's like you should apply so i did apply

00:44:40.500 --> 00:44:43.760
um i got lucky enough i got the job and then

00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:46.960
since there it's been all uphill um in a good

00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:50.480
way um of learning um the fire service just in

00:44:50.480 --> 00:44:54.079
general But yeah, I've loved my time here. It's

00:44:54.079 --> 00:44:56.980
been great. As I told you when we talked before,

00:44:57.179 --> 00:45:00.260
I might be a strength coach here in the fire

00:45:00.260 --> 00:45:02.480
service, but they have allowed me to go through

00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:04.840
a fire academy. So I am now a certified firefighter

00:45:04.840 --> 00:45:07.579
in the state of Virginia. My girls like to say

00:45:07.579 --> 00:45:09.940
I'm a firefighter. I tell everybody I'm a paper

00:45:09.940 --> 00:45:11.719
firefighter. If this building catches on fire,

00:45:11.800 --> 00:45:13.179
I'm the first one out the door. I can tell you

00:45:13.179 --> 00:45:17.570
that. So but yeah, so. Where I think the benefit

00:45:17.570 --> 00:45:20.750
of that is, and we touched on it earlier in the

00:45:20.750 --> 00:45:23.489
smaller community thing, is that I think going

00:45:23.489 --> 00:45:26.690
through a fire academy or a police academy or

00:45:26.690 --> 00:45:29.710
indulging yourself in that, and you see this

00:45:29.710 --> 00:45:32.269
a lot of times with guys in military training,

00:45:32.530 --> 00:45:35.369
you need some sweat equity if you want guys to

00:45:35.369 --> 00:45:38.230
buy into what you're saying. So I've gone outside,

00:45:38.349 --> 00:45:40.110
I've been in a burn building, I've gone through

00:45:40.110 --> 00:45:42.710
the same recruit schools, did all that. I understand

00:45:42.710 --> 00:45:45.760
what it takes to be a recruit. in the virginia

00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:47.900
beach fire department and what it takes to get

00:45:47.900 --> 00:45:50.440
through it i know what it's like on the civilian

00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:53.019
side of it um and the fact that i had to go home

00:45:53.019 --> 00:45:54.719
at night when my daughters were like two years

00:45:54.719 --> 00:45:56.920
old i had to sit and i had to read the textbook

00:45:56.920 --> 00:45:59.000
so i could pass the state test pass the test

00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:01.460
that goes on so i really understand that and

00:46:01.460 --> 00:46:04.099
when i get up in front of these recruits um but

00:46:04.099 --> 00:46:05.380
here in a couple weeks when we have another one

00:46:05.380 --> 00:46:07.380
come in i'll be able to tell them listen i understand

00:46:07.380 --> 00:46:09.239
what you're about ready to go through i understand

00:46:09.239 --> 00:46:11.440
what it takes on the family side and whatever

00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:14.889
not um so i i think that creates buy -in they

00:46:14.889 --> 00:46:18.190
trust me to to help them and then it helps like

00:46:18.190 --> 00:46:19.909
when they go out to the field they're willing

00:46:19.909 --> 00:46:23.610
to come back and ask us questions because they

00:46:23.610 --> 00:46:25.849
understand that we know what they're kind of

00:46:25.849 --> 00:46:27.090
going through now i don't know what it's like

00:46:27.090 --> 00:46:31.510
to be on scene and and see a dead body or a limb

00:46:31.510 --> 00:46:33.269
laying over there and i don't pretend to be like

00:46:33.269 --> 00:46:36.769
that but outside of that it helps them to come

00:46:36.769 --> 00:46:38.329
back and be like this guy understands probably

00:46:38.329 --> 00:46:40.710
the physical pain that i'm in because i've been

00:46:40.710 --> 00:46:44.820
wearing this gear for 18 years and it's been

00:46:44.820 --> 00:46:46.920
wearing me down and everything like that so i

00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:50.820
think that that's helped a lot um you know so

00:46:50.820 --> 00:46:53.019
i digress and i'll let you ask your next question

00:46:53.019 --> 00:46:56.380
no no it's just brilliant one of the things that's

00:46:56.380 --> 00:46:58.619
always intriguing when someone comes from another

00:46:58.619 --> 00:47:01.639
area of strength and conditioning to you know

00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:05.900
the first responder profession specifically is

00:47:06.690 --> 00:47:09.630
maybe some of the myths that were busted or some

00:47:09.630 --> 00:47:12.130
of the challenges that they didn't realize they

00:47:12.130 --> 00:47:13.550
were going to face when they started working

00:47:13.550 --> 00:47:16.070
with our community. So talk to me about that.

00:47:16.949 --> 00:47:19.969
Yeah, I thought you had a good one. I was kind

00:47:19.969 --> 00:47:22.230
of a little worried to go to the fire service

00:47:22.230 --> 00:47:24.550
coming out of a sports performance, like not

00:47:24.550 --> 00:47:26.909
knowing anything. I was like, well, what do they

00:47:26.909 --> 00:47:31.570
do? I was like, I had the picture of the volunteer

00:47:31.570 --> 00:47:34.429
fire department at the bottom of my street. Right.

00:47:34.489 --> 00:47:35.989
These guys just sit on the front of the truck

00:47:35.989 --> 00:47:38.010
drinking coffee or drinking soda or whatever.

00:47:38.230 --> 00:47:40.429
And like, you don't have to be in shape to be

00:47:40.429 --> 00:47:43.289
fire, like to fight a fire. Right. Then I got

00:47:43.289 --> 00:47:45.250
here and I realized there's a huge difference.

00:47:45.349 --> 00:47:48.610
All right. You know, climbing to the top of a

00:47:48.610 --> 00:47:51.809
36 story building that we have in Virginia Beach

00:47:51.809 --> 00:47:54.309
here in full turnout kit and stuff like that

00:47:54.309 --> 00:47:59.360
is much different than I expected. it to feel

00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:01.940
like i'll be dead honest with you like that boots

00:48:01.940 --> 00:48:04.400
are heavy helmets heavy well you know the glove

00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:06.719
you can't grab stuff like you normally would

00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:10.019
um wearing fire gloves so there's a lot of things

00:48:10.019 --> 00:48:12.960
that kind of changed my mind about the fire service

00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:15.780
in general and what what i like to do is we have

00:48:15.780 --> 00:48:18.920
a huge internship program here our interns come

00:48:18.920 --> 00:48:20.880
on and they had very they have very much the

00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:23.159
same approach that i did like oh what what's

00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:25.239
this right and then you get to put them in turnout

00:48:25.239 --> 00:48:27.760
gear and they get to understand how hot it is

00:48:28.139 --> 00:48:31.300
how heavy it is. And it's an eye -opening when

00:48:31.300 --> 00:48:32.960
they come out and they're like, yeah, that's

00:48:32.960 --> 00:48:35.320
hard. I was like, yeah, now imagine having to

00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:39.119
do that on sleep, deprived sleep, right? And

00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:41.320
then have to go home and be the best dad in the

00:48:41.320 --> 00:48:42.880
world that you can possibly be to your kids and

00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:44.360
your family and your wife. I was like, and then

00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:45.940
come back in the next day, oh, by the way, and

00:48:45.940 --> 00:48:48.679
do it again. And now you might run into a call

00:48:48.679 --> 00:48:51.199
where unfortunately the little kid looks like

00:48:51.199 --> 00:48:53.039
the same little kid that you go home to every

00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:55.690
night, right? I was like, there's just a myriad

00:48:55.690 --> 00:48:58.349
of things that are just going to come down the

00:48:58.349 --> 00:49:01.449
pipeline at you that you're going to, unfortunately,

00:49:01.710 --> 00:49:05.849
block it all out. Why? Because the taxpaying

00:49:05.849 --> 00:49:08.389
civilian expects you to, unfortunately, because

00:49:08.389 --> 00:49:10.550
they don't think about that. All they think about

00:49:10.550 --> 00:49:12.710
when they call 911, that someone's going to show

00:49:12.710 --> 00:49:14.789
up and be their hero and take care of all their

00:49:14.789 --> 00:49:20.469
problems at that time. Right? Absolutely. So

00:49:20.469 --> 00:49:22.150
let's start at the very beginning. We'll kind

00:49:22.150 --> 00:49:25.090
of work through, you know, someone even applying

00:49:25.090 --> 00:49:28.030
for a fire department and then we'll talk about,

00:49:28.030 --> 00:49:29.590
you know, probation and all the way through.

00:49:29.670 --> 00:49:33.750
So at the front door, talk to me about the importance

00:49:33.750 --> 00:49:36.550
of, you know, whatever kind of physical tests

00:49:36.550 --> 00:49:39.050
that you have to ensure that you've got the right

00:49:39.050 --> 00:49:42.150
fitness level, but also beginning the journey

00:49:42.150 --> 00:49:46.070
to injury prevention as well. Yeah. So with our

00:49:46.070 --> 00:49:48.630
department, we start and, you know, we run CPAT.

00:49:49.099 --> 00:49:52.159
And I think it's a good starting point for anyone

00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:55.500
that want to get into the fire service. So if

00:49:55.500 --> 00:49:58.199
you're listening and you want to get in the fire

00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:01.400
service, at least Google or go on YouTube and

00:50:01.400 --> 00:50:03.239
find out what CPAT is so you get a better understanding

00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:07.380
of it. I joke with people that come in that,

00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:10.019
you know, this isn't like any television show

00:50:10.019 --> 00:50:13.780
you've seen, right? It's not simple, right? And

00:50:13.780 --> 00:50:15.539
if you get through CPAT, I'm like, congratulations,

00:50:15.800 --> 00:50:18.500
you passed the bare minimum standard. that we

00:50:18.500 --> 00:50:21.639
have in the fire service so from there what we've

00:50:21.639 --> 00:50:24.519
done to help attrition rates and to help people

00:50:24.519 --> 00:50:26.420
get in better shape as we've talked about is

00:50:26.420 --> 00:50:30.039
we have an eight -week prep academy so once you

00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:33.260
get through you know the cpat and your offers

00:50:33.260 --> 00:50:34.920
and everything like that and they come out we

00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:37.280
then email out every single person that's on

00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:39.480
our hiring list and right now i want to say it's

00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:43.059
50 people and we invite you to come to a voluntary

00:50:43.059 --> 00:50:47.650
prep academy I know some cities do the same thing,

00:50:47.710 --> 00:50:49.530
but they make it mandatory. But we do it voluntary.

00:50:49.789 --> 00:50:50.809
So what you're going to do is you're going to

00:50:50.809 --> 00:50:53.050
spend an hour at 8 a .m., just like you will

00:50:53.050 --> 00:50:54.670
for the next seven months. Once you enter our

00:50:54.670 --> 00:50:56.590
academy, you're going to spend an hour with me

00:50:56.590 --> 00:50:59.989
and you're going to PT. And we kind of use that

00:50:59.989 --> 00:51:03.489
as a little bit of a buffering point to find

00:51:03.489 --> 00:51:05.750
out how this group is going to be come day one.

00:51:05.869 --> 00:51:08.949
Right. So we spend an hour PT. And then after

00:51:08.949 --> 00:51:12.050
that, you're going to go and we'd like to use

00:51:12.050 --> 00:51:13.969
some captains that have been down in the training

00:51:13.969 --> 00:51:16.010
center before. What they're going to do is they're

00:51:16.010 --> 00:51:18.289
going to give you a low -level dose of what fire

00:51:18.289 --> 00:51:20.309
school is like. They're going to put you in some

00:51:20.309 --> 00:51:22.409
turnout gear. They're going to induce you one

00:51:22.409 --> 00:51:25.090
week maybe to some confined space, and then the

00:51:25.090 --> 00:51:26.590
next week it's going to build and it's going

00:51:26.590 --> 00:51:29.550
to go to ladders and to hose streams and to mayday

00:51:29.550 --> 00:51:33.789
and to search. But what we found is individuals

00:51:33.789 --> 00:51:36.650
that come in and they get through the system

00:51:36.650 --> 00:51:38.889
all the way to that point, they will get an eye

00:51:38.889 --> 00:51:41.989
-opener real quick of how much physicality there

00:51:41.989 --> 00:51:46.489
is just in four hours. of fire school and the

00:51:46.489 --> 00:51:49.269
expectations you know and we make it known like

00:51:49.269 --> 00:51:53.210
right now this is all this is all friendly right

00:51:53.210 --> 00:51:55.769
this is all calm talk right but come day one

00:51:55.769 --> 00:51:59.190
of fire academy there's an expectation from the

00:51:59.190 --> 00:52:02.449
fire service of as in this department and the

00:52:02.449 --> 00:52:04.989
citizens of virginia beach of what they expect

00:52:04.989 --> 00:52:07.969
of our firefighters right and if you're not willing

00:52:07.969 --> 00:52:10.650
to meet that you know our standard and the city

00:52:10.650 --> 00:52:14.219
standard of the citizens that may be this isn't

00:52:14.219 --> 00:52:16.619
for you right at this point in time it's nothing

00:52:16.619 --> 00:52:18.639
wrong with saying i'm not in shape to do this

00:52:18.639 --> 00:52:22.019
right i'm not ready to commit into this let me

00:52:22.019 --> 00:52:23.860
go get my things in order and i can apply again

00:52:23.860 --> 00:52:25.980
next year right there is nothing wrong with that

00:52:25.980 --> 00:52:28.280
in my mind i just think people need to come in

00:52:28.280 --> 00:52:31.000
here with the expectation that you know this

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:33.480
isn't easy right this this isn't for everyone

00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:38.719
you know and it's tough i love the way that you've

00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:41.239
made that voluntary because that requires some

00:52:41.239 --> 00:52:43.780
skin in the game by an individual for a start.

00:52:44.519 --> 00:52:48.119
Secondly, there's kind of like a spectrum of

00:52:48.119 --> 00:52:50.199
programs out there. I always give massive props

00:52:50.199 --> 00:52:54.019
to Ocala Marion here. Chris Hickman, my friend,

00:52:54.059 --> 00:52:56.000
started it up. They have a mentorship program

00:52:56.000 --> 00:52:59.019
because there are underserved communities in

00:52:59.019 --> 00:53:02.099
areas. And it might just be that no one in their

00:53:02.099 --> 00:53:04.719
area is even talking about being a firefighter.

00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:07.039
Maybe they don't really see themselves in some

00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:10.119
of these departments, you know, culturally. And

00:53:10.119 --> 00:53:12.300
so I love the fact that you enable it. You put

00:53:12.300 --> 00:53:14.579
a lighthouse up. You say, if you just show up,

00:53:14.719 --> 00:53:16.639
we will give you training. We'll put you in gear.

00:53:16.739 --> 00:53:18.880
We'll prepare you for an academy. There's scholarships.

00:53:20.340 --> 00:53:23.599
Because what that does is it empowers kids to

00:53:23.599 --> 00:53:26.380
try. Some of them end up thriving and becoming

00:53:26.380 --> 00:53:28.900
incredible firefighters. Some of them, as you

00:53:28.900 --> 00:53:30.880
said, maybe need to go back and do some work,

00:53:30.900 --> 00:53:32.900
evaluate what they really want to do. And some

00:53:32.900 --> 00:53:35.539
of them go, oh, hell no. This is definitely what

00:53:35.539 --> 00:53:38.199
I do not want to do. All of those are a win.

00:53:38.820 --> 00:53:41.340
And so that kind of prep, exactly what you're

00:53:41.340 --> 00:53:45.099
talking about, has an absolutely essential place

00:53:45.099 --> 00:53:49.639
where I think it's sad is when you see these

00:53:49.639 --> 00:53:53.619
long, long, long CPAP preps and they fail again.

00:53:53.699 --> 00:53:55.420
Oh, you can just do more and more. We'll help

00:53:55.420 --> 00:53:57.619
you. There has to be a point where you're like,

00:53:57.780 --> 00:54:00.039
you just aren't the right kind of person right

00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:01.579
now. Like you said, it doesn't mean that you

00:54:01.579 --> 00:54:04.340
won't be one day. But right now we can't keep

00:54:04.340 --> 00:54:06.739
lowering the bar or holding your hand. There's

00:54:06.739 --> 00:54:09.780
got to be an ownership level too. So you can't

00:54:09.780 --> 00:54:12.500
exclude people by having no mentorship or no

00:54:12.500 --> 00:54:14.880
on -ramp. But at the same time, where do you

00:54:14.880 --> 00:54:16.679
draw that line where it's like, just like you

00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:19.059
said, okay, you just, you're not me in the bar

00:54:19.059 --> 00:54:21.380
at the moment. Thank you for trying. We'll be

00:54:21.380 --> 00:54:26.099
here if you want to try again. Yeah, no. So I've

00:54:26.099 --> 00:54:30.239
had discussions with chiefs. Like we can, I would

00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:33.400
say you can teach anyone to be a fireman. I can

00:54:33.400 --> 00:54:35.800
teach you the skill sets to be a fireman. However,

00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:39.239
you need to show up day one with the capability

00:54:39.239 --> 00:54:42.340
or capacity to do that. And that is where we

00:54:42.340 --> 00:54:46.000
have some issues. Now, the city here, they have

00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:48.340
a cadet program where they work with the local

00:54:48.340 --> 00:54:51.400
technical part of the high school. So they have

00:54:51.400 --> 00:54:53.900
an entry program there as well and stuff. But

00:54:53.900 --> 00:54:57.460
still, I think it's tough. Like, no, we do not

00:54:57.460 --> 00:54:59.519
need to keep bringing the bar down so we can

00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:03.469
get. more numbers uh you know of all around through

00:55:03.469 --> 00:55:07.230
the door you know i think it's tough but um i

00:55:07.230 --> 00:55:09.949
like kind of where we're at like me personally

00:55:09.949 --> 00:55:12.510
come a fitness guy i would like the the entry

00:55:12.510 --> 00:55:14.949
exam to be harder right um just because i still

00:55:14.949 --> 00:55:18.449
see attrition in the academy of like the physical

00:55:18.449 --> 00:55:21.929
strains to you know first three weeks or two

00:55:21.929 --> 00:55:25.630
weeks of um a an academy guys are like i'm just

00:55:25.630 --> 00:55:28.000
beat up I'm like beat up. I'm like, we're doing

00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:30.119
body weight stuff. Like we haven't even put you

00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:33.559
under load yet. Right. Which by the way, you're

00:55:33.559 --> 00:55:35.780
going to be 85 pounds under load every day when

00:55:35.780 --> 00:55:38.699
we hit fire school. Right. And you're not going

00:55:38.699 --> 00:55:40.360
to take off your bunker pants and boots and all

00:55:40.360 --> 00:55:43.340
that while we're in between sets and reps. Right.

00:55:43.420 --> 00:55:44.780
You're going to still be wearing some of that

00:55:44.780 --> 00:55:50.420
stuff. So I don't know. It's tough, but I just

00:55:50.420 --> 00:55:52.380
wish we could find a way to get the information

00:55:52.380 --> 00:55:55.210
out there of the true expectation. Now, maybe

00:55:55.210 --> 00:55:57.369
it is out there and the people that are wanting

00:55:57.369 --> 00:55:59.409
to do it aren't going to the right resources.

00:56:01.110 --> 00:56:03.130
I'll put it squarely on our shoulders. I think

00:56:03.130 --> 00:56:05.449
the fire service has done a terrible job of educating

00:56:05.449 --> 00:56:08.329
the public on what we actually do. I really do.

00:56:09.429 --> 00:56:12.929
From obviously the EMS side, I mean, most municipal

00:56:12.929 --> 00:56:17.150
areas have been doing EMS for like 50 years now.

00:56:17.269 --> 00:56:19.349
And you still get people saying, why is there

00:56:19.349 --> 00:56:21.489
a fire engine? It's a medical call. There's just

00:56:21.489 --> 00:56:25.599
a complete... lack of understanding and then

00:56:25.599 --> 00:56:27.599
like you said with the physical side you know

00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:30.019
with that bar coming down i mean i just saw on

00:56:30.019 --> 00:56:32.340
my facebook memories it was six years ago now

00:56:32.340 --> 00:56:36.780
so i was 45 but um i was getting ready to just

00:56:36.780 --> 00:56:38.860
have my ducks in a row in case i needed to go

00:56:38.860 --> 00:56:41.739
back to the fire service for the fifth time after

00:56:41.739 --> 00:56:44.340
i left to do this full time and so you know being

00:56:44.340 --> 00:56:46.260
humble enough to be like well i don't know let's

00:56:46.260 --> 00:56:48.159
let's find out let me test myself i did the c

00:56:48.159 --> 00:56:51.099
-pat And it was seven minutes, 20 seconds. And

00:56:51.099 --> 00:56:53.679
I don't say that to brag. I've never been the

00:56:53.679 --> 00:56:57.480
best at anything ever, but it's just at 45 years

00:56:57.480 --> 00:57:01.239
old, if my skinny ass can do a 720 CPAP, then

00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:04.460
scraping through or trying to get 1020 for the

00:57:04.460 --> 00:57:07.579
third time, you know, again, there's that bar.

00:57:07.760 --> 00:57:09.980
And if you look at the departments that set the

00:57:09.980 --> 00:57:12.639
bar high, they're the ones that get the right

00:57:12.639 --> 00:57:15.900
candidates. But the last place I worked, you

00:57:15.900 --> 00:57:19.369
know, they, oh my God, they. I vehemently opposed

00:57:19.369 --> 00:57:22.409
any sort of fitness standard. Next to my fire

00:57:22.409 --> 00:57:26.150
station was a 30 -story high -rise hotel. Now,

00:57:26.170 --> 00:57:29.230
a high -rise strip, the things I would need to

00:57:29.230 --> 00:57:31.230
fight fire on the 30th floor is 100 pounds of

00:57:31.230 --> 00:57:36.869
gear on my 168 -pound body. So 60 % of my body

00:57:36.869 --> 00:57:39.610
weight. And then you're climbing 30 stories,

00:57:39.769 --> 00:57:43.730
and then you go to work. So it's not people making

00:57:43.730 --> 00:57:47.699
up some crazy... faux physical you know gauntlet

00:57:47.699 --> 00:57:51.219
for no reason it's needed because on our worst

00:57:51.219 --> 00:57:54.260
day we are expected to do something that you

00:57:54.260 --> 00:57:56.820
know is of elite athleticism doesn't mean that

00:57:56.820 --> 00:57:58.559
we're the fastest strongest whatever but like

00:57:58.559 --> 00:58:00.559
you said that mental toughness and that teamwork

00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:03.300
if there's a you know a floor full of people

00:58:03.300 --> 00:58:06.119
about to burn up on the 30th floor we are the

00:58:06.119 --> 00:58:09.599
only chance they have and if you know four of

00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:12.760
us tap out on the 10th floor now they become

00:58:12.760 --> 00:58:14.820
the victim and we we've got to then take care

00:58:14.820 --> 00:58:16.500
of them rather than the people that are burning

00:58:16.500 --> 00:58:19.440
on the 30th so these fitness standards absolutely

00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:22.019
have a place and just like you said our fire

00:58:22.019 --> 00:58:24.820
academy is labeled minimum standards and i say

00:58:24.820 --> 00:58:28.219
this over again that tells you this is the shittest

00:58:28.219 --> 00:58:32.079
you should be your entire career so then to turn

00:58:32.079 --> 00:58:33.840
around after five ten years and say it's not

00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:35.780
fair that we need you know you're saying we need

00:58:35.780 --> 00:58:38.369
fitness standards Well, you're ignoring what

00:58:38.369 --> 00:58:40.610
you went through the front door of the fire service

00:58:40.610 --> 00:58:44.150
in the first place. Yeah, I mean, it's crazy.

00:58:45.809 --> 00:58:48.829
I think everything we should do fitness -wise,

00:58:48.969 --> 00:58:50.849
and this is my belief, especially when it comes

00:58:50.849 --> 00:58:53.750
to testing, it should be under load constantly,

00:58:53.989 --> 00:58:57.530
right? I read a lot of Rob Orr's research and

00:58:57.530 --> 00:58:59.670
stuff like that. He's great when it comes to

00:58:59.670 --> 00:59:02.909
load carriage and stuff like that. But it's important

00:59:02.909 --> 00:59:04.929
to know that effect that it's going to have on

00:59:04.929 --> 00:59:07.679
your body and stuff like that. uh we can go back

00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:10.139
to see that normally what happens is you put

00:59:10.139 --> 00:59:12.639
people on a step mill right off the bat under

00:59:12.639 --> 00:59:15.699
load and they crumble right because like i'm

00:59:15.699 --> 00:59:17.420
like we don't fight fire in gym shorts and cut

00:59:17.420 --> 00:59:20.480
off t -shirts all right so i i think that's a

00:59:20.480 --> 00:59:23.159
large eye -opening thing um to people and then

00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:26.599
you know as you said see that like you're you're

00:59:26.599 --> 00:59:31.420
you're running with a uncharged hose like Let's

00:59:31.420 --> 00:59:33.119
be honest, like the hardest part about a hose

00:59:33.119 --> 00:59:34.599
line is when it's charging, you're taking it

00:59:34.599 --> 00:59:37.719
upstairs, right? And that's firefighting. You

00:59:37.719 --> 00:59:40.219
know, it's not hauling empty hoses around. So,

00:59:40.300 --> 00:59:44.400
you know, I think it's good because I jokingly

00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:46.699
say this, you know, and I jokingly say this to

00:59:46.699 --> 00:59:48.440
my police officers as well, because unfortunately

00:59:48.440 --> 00:59:51.179
here they just started having a fitness. I said,

00:59:51.219 --> 00:59:52.980
the only difference between us and you guys is

00:59:52.980 --> 00:59:56.579
our CPAC gets the sludge off the bottom of the

00:59:56.579 --> 00:59:58.340
barrel. Like we don't get those guys because

00:59:58.340 --> 01:00:01.869
CPAC eliminates that. However, if we had nothing,

01:00:02.050 --> 01:00:04.329
that would still be in the running of our process.

01:00:04.550 --> 01:00:07.309
And that most likely is going to be what I call

01:00:07.309 --> 01:00:08.909
nonproductive stats. Those people are going to

01:00:08.909 --> 01:00:10.690
be injured. They're going to be on light duty

01:00:10.690 --> 01:00:13.989
a lot of the time or calling out sick, right?

01:00:14.110 --> 01:00:15.650
And that's not what the citizens of Virginia

01:00:15.650 --> 01:00:19.349
Beach pay for. I had a police officer on the

01:00:19.349 --> 01:00:22.849
show who does background checks now. And he was

01:00:22.849 --> 01:00:25.150
talking about a story where he was in a conference

01:00:25.150 --> 01:00:28.030
and someone else was speaking. And they were

01:00:28.030 --> 01:00:29.809
talking, again, I think about the dollar amount

01:00:29.809 --> 01:00:32.369
of certain areas when it comes to recruitment

01:00:32.369 --> 01:00:35.590
and retention. And he asked his speaker, how

01:00:35.590 --> 01:00:39.829
much does it cost to get rid of a bad employee,

01:00:39.989 --> 01:00:42.130
someone that you ultimately probably should never

01:00:42.130 --> 01:00:44.530
have hired? And the guy said, half a million

01:00:44.530 --> 01:00:48.230
dollars. So when we're talking about, well, how

01:00:48.230 --> 01:00:50.789
do we afford a D -shift, for example, 24 -7 -2,

01:00:50.949 --> 01:00:54.210
that's just one of many, many columns of downstream

01:00:54.210 --> 01:00:56.929
money that you can pull from. If you have that

01:00:56.929 --> 01:01:00.289
person who really had never met the original

01:01:00.289 --> 01:01:02.989
standard before it was brought down, and now

01:01:02.989 --> 01:01:06.090
that becomes a repeated injury issue. And I kept

01:01:06.090 --> 01:01:08.690
myself in great shape. I still had meniscus tears

01:01:08.690 --> 01:01:11.829
on both knees and a back injury. with diligence

01:01:11.829 --> 01:01:14.449
and yoga and strength and conditioning and chiropractic

01:01:14.449 --> 01:01:17.510
and everything else. So yeah, so we've got to

01:01:17.510 --> 01:01:20.889
think about that as well. There seems to be this

01:01:20.889 --> 01:01:24.949
kind of complete denial of proactive funding

01:01:24.949 --> 01:01:27.909
and we just lean into this false economy of what's

01:01:27.909 --> 01:01:30.170
good for a budget year, but that doesn't work

01:01:30.170 --> 01:01:32.250
in business and it doesn't work in the first

01:01:32.250 --> 01:01:35.269
responder professions either. Yeah, no, you're

01:01:35.269 --> 01:01:39.579
right. I joke, I'm like, listen, if the fire

01:01:39.579 --> 01:01:42.960
service most years was a privatized entity, we'd

01:01:42.960 --> 01:01:45.300
be broke and bankrupt in probably two years,

01:01:45.440 --> 01:01:48.239
right? But that's not the world that we live

01:01:48.239 --> 01:01:51.340
in. But you're right, though. When we were looking

01:01:51.340 --> 01:01:53.860
at staffing matrix and everything, when you were

01:01:53.860 --> 01:01:57.400
looking at leave time and stuff like that, the

01:01:57.400 --> 01:02:00.280
biggest killer to our staffing matrix is light

01:02:00.280 --> 01:02:02.800
duty, right? Because those are the ones that

01:02:02.800 --> 01:02:04.960
you can't plan for, right? In a budget, you can

01:02:04.960 --> 01:02:07.530
plan for annual leave and sick leave. But you

01:02:07.530 --> 01:02:09.730
can't plan for someone to go on like four or

01:02:09.730 --> 01:02:11.869
five, six people on a shift to go on light duty.

01:02:12.530 --> 01:02:14.849
And so those are callbacks. Now that starts to

01:02:14.849 --> 01:02:17.349
wear the system. You know, we used to discuss

01:02:17.349 --> 01:02:20.489
to us when we met with you. Yeah, absolutely.

01:02:20.989 --> 01:02:22.750
All right. So we talked about the front door

01:02:22.750 --> 01:02:25.789
and the entrance standards. What kind of strength

01:02:25.789 --> 01:02:29.230
conditioning and screening are you giving these

01:02:29.230 --> 01:02:33.610
new recruits once they get hired? Yeah, so. we

01:02:33.610 --> 01:02:36.869
we try to be very proactive on that um so what

01:02:36.869 --> 01:02:39.769
we do is obviously from from his general side

01:02:39.769 --> 01:02:42.610
they do an occ health screening um come through

01:02:42.610 --> 01:02:46.530
that uh then we we do a lot of force plate testing

01:02:46.530 --> 01:02:49.769
at our department right so we want to see how

01:02:49.769 --> 01:02:53.909
not only do you um put out load but how do you

01:02:53.909 --> 01:02:55.690
absorb load right because we talked about carrying

01:02:55.690 --> 01:02:57.889
gear you know if you're not good at absorbing

01:02:57.889 --> 01:03:00.289
load I've seen injuries happen, guys jumping

01:03:00.289 --> 01:03:02.309
off the truck, stuff like that. So you need to

01:03:02.309 --> 01:03:05.150
learn to absorb load. We use it also on the shoulders

01:03:05.150 --> 01:03:08.710
to figure out if you have discrepancies on internal

01:03:08.710 --> 01:03:12.570
and external rotation of the shoulder. So that's

01:03:12.570 --> 01:03:15.050
one of the things that we've added in. We recently

01:03:15.050 --> 01:03:17.969
just purchased a DEXA machine too. So we used

01:03:17.969 --> 01:03:21.670
to use a bob pod to do body comp for people,

01:03:21.750 --> 01:03:23.750
but we're switching gears and we're going to

01:03:23.750 --> 01:03:26.849
a higher level. We want to figure out what kind

01:03:26.849 --> 01:03:29.190
of visceral fat individuals would have. We pulled

01:03:29.190 --> 01:03:32.750
some data in our department on individuals on

01:03:32.750 --> 01:03:36.329
their MET scores, on their body comp, and whatnot.

01:03:36.590 --> 01:03:39.170
And we extrapolated that out over five years,

01:03:39.250 --> 01:03:41.050
and we looked at individuals in our department

01:03:41.050 --> 01:03:43.809
that also had had some form of medical event.

01:03:43.889 --> 01:03:45.449
And most of the medical events were cardiovascular

01:03:45.449 --> 01:03:49.650
in nature. And what we found was, in our data

01:03:49.650 --> 01:03:52.949
now, was that the majority of those people that

01:03:52.949 --> 01:03:55.250
had those events two to three years prior out,

01:03:55.289 --> 01:03:58.809
they had a spike in body comp and fat rather.

01:03:59.070 --> 01:04:01.690
So, what we want to do is we want to get ahead

01:04:01.690 --> 01:04:04.210
of that and maybe figure out like, hey, is there

01:04:04.210 --> 01:04:08.210
also an uptake in visceral fat or is it just

01:04:08.210 --> 01:04:10.269
overall fat? And then we can also use it for

01:04:10.269 --> 01:04:12.710
a myriad of other things such as like guide recovery

01:04:12.710 --> 01:04:15.329
from injury, like are they having good balance

01:04:15.329 --> 01:04:17.980
in their musculature? our females in the department

01:04:17.980 --> 01:04:19.739
as well like you know we can do bone density

01:04:19.739 --> 01:04:22.099
scannings with it and stuff like that so we're

01:04:22.099 --> 01:04:24.179
trying to be very proactive and stay ahead of

01:04:24.179 --> 01:04:25.559
the curve on everything that we're trying to

01:04:25.559 --> 01:04:28.860
do but i think those are our big brass tax ones

01:04:28.860 --> 01:04:32.559
uh we do still do a little bit of nfpa uh testing

01:04:32.559 --> 01:04:34.599
but not as much that really we just stick to

01:04:34.599 --> 01:04:36.880
the mets testing we want to try to find our own

01:04:36.880 --> 01:04:39.840
parameters and then i'll as well real quick with

01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:42.769
the force plates we can kind of use that data

01:04:42.769 --> 01:04:45.250
a little bit with our recruits and kind of figure

01:04:45.250 --> 01:04:47.869
out like hey are we beating them up a little

01:04:47.869 --> 01:04:50.269
bit too much right because there's some responsibility

01:04:50.269 --> 01:04:53.110
on our end to get an understanding of what what

01:04:53.110 --> 01:04:55.570
our athletes um are kind of going through and

01:04:55.570 --> 01:04:58.210
maybe we need to tailor it back because you know

01:04:58.210 --> 01:05:00.809
yesterday was a a tough day out in the field

01:05:00.809 --> 01:05:02.989
and maybe we we tailor back you know it's our

01:05:02.989 --> 01:05:05.760
job to keep them healthy as well so That's another

01:05:05.760 --> 01:05:07.900
kind of misnomer that I was raised with, you

01:05:07.900 --> 01:05:09.539
know, all the milk commercials that that makes

01:05:09.539 --> 01:05:12.780
your bones strong. And we now know that exercise

01:05:12.780 --> 01:05:15.619
makes your bones strong. That's it. And sleep

01:05:15.619 --> 01:05:18.900
again. So, yeah, I mean, getting that misinformation,

01:05:19.099 --> 01:05:22.280
especially with the postmenopausal female firefighters,

01:05:22.519 --> 01:05:24.000
I can see that would be something you have to

01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:28.400
think about. Yeah. And in my experience with

01:05:28.400 --> 01:05:30.079
firefighters, I'll ask them, like, do you have

01:05:30.079 --> 01:05:32.760
a primary? a PCP. And they're like, no, I go

01:05:32.760 --> 01:05:35.320
to the health doctor once a year. I'm like, hey,

01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:36.880
man, I was like, that's all well and good. But

01:05:36.880 --> 01:05:37.960
I'm like, you should probably have a primary.

01:05:38.039 --> 01:05:39.539
So I think it's good that we're taking these

01:05:39.539 --> 01:05:42.920
extra steps and whatnot. We've actually switched

01:05:42.920 --> 01:05:45.420
up this coming year. We will actually be using

01:05:45.420 --> 01:05:49.500
a company outside to do all our blood draws,

01:05:49.579 --> 01:05:52.659
our physicals and stuff like that. However, we

01:05:52.659 --> 01:05:54.719
will still be doing the force plates and all

01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:56.940
that. And because we have an outside company

01:05:56.940 --> 01:06:00.559
coming in and doing our physicals as well. what

01:06:00.559 --> 01:06:02.880
we will do is we're going to actually add in

01:06:02.880 --> 01:06:06.159
a uh a work performance exam um with all our

01:06:06.159 --> 01:06:08.539
firefighters where we'll put you in turnout gear

01:06:08.539 --> 01:06:12.119
and you'll do a myriad of tests um dragging hoses

01:06:12.119 --> 01:06:15.800
dragging dummies uh climbing stairs uh completely

01:06:15.800 --> 01:06:17.840
non -punitive but we want to do some time and

01:06:17.840 --> 01:06:21.099
kind of figure out uh how everyone in the department's

01:06:21.099 --> 01:06:23.480
doing and and find out whether or not you know

01:06:23.480 --> 01:06:25.920
we're doing the right stuff in our department

01:06:25.920 --> 01:06:27.579
to make sure everyone's healthy and they can

01:06:27.579 --> 01:06:30.860
do their job not only uh just do it but can they

01:06:30.860 --> 01:06:33.519
do it efficiently right and can they can they

01:06:33.519 --> 01:06:37.039
make sure if they do it right and let's say they

01:06:37.039 --> 01:06:38.960
they do the work performance then if we gave

01:06:38.960 --> 01:06:40.360
you five minutes could you do it again because

01:06:40.360 --> 01:06:42.619
in the real world you might have to right i don't

01:06:42.619 --> 01:06:44.400
we don't need you just be able to do it one time

01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:46.059
right you're gonna if you're gonna be the station

01:06:46.059 --> 01:06:48.159
for 24 hours you might have to do it four or

01:06:48.159 --> 01:06:51.760
five times unfortunately right so so that's that's

01:06:51.760 --> 01:06:52.980
some of the stuff that we're trying to figure

01:06:52.980 --> 01:06:54.869
out on our end we're trying to pushed the needle

01:06:54.869 --> 01:06:57.429
forward and we're um you know we're always trying

01:06:57.429 --> 01:06:59.309
to find what other departments are doing and

01:06:59.309 --> 01:07:01.829
that's why podcasts like yourself here are great

01:07:01.829 --> 01:07:03.409
because we can listen to what other people are

01:07:03.409 --> 01:07:06.429
trying to uh push through and their initiatives

01:07:06.429 --> 01:07:10.809
that's what's interesting with creating an annual

01:07:10.809 --> 01:07:13.590
fitness test i mean ideally you know punitive

01:07:13.590 --> 01:07:15.590
or forging such a culture they don't even need

01:07:15.590 --> 01:07:17.750
it to be punitive anymore it's just a culture

01:07:17.750 --> 01:07:20.750
of fitness When you think about law enforcement,

01:07:20.809 --> 01:07:22.690
some of these other agencies, you can see how

01:07:22.690 --> 01:07:24.469
maybe it would be a little bit harder to put

01:07:24.469 --> 01:07:27.210
something together. But, you know, our implements

01:07:27.210 --> 01:07:31.369
don't care if you're, you know, 18 or 55, you

01:07:31.369 --> 01:07:33.010
know, black, white, gay, straight, male, female,

01:07:33.130 --> 01:07:35.530
whatever the thing is. And so this is where,

01:07:35.590 --> 01:07:38.710
whether it's the CPAT or the fire sled test or

01:07:38.710 --> 01:07:41.829
whatever, you know, a work -related circuit.

01:07:43.579 --> 01:07:45.320
No one can say it's not fair unless you make

01:07:45.320 --> 01:07:47.320
it some ridiculous scenario that, you know, it's

01:07:47.320 --> 01:07:50.900
24 hour hose drag or something. But, you know,

01:07:50.900 --> 01:07:53.059
so then no one can say it's not fair. So this

01:07:53.059 --> 01:07:55.460
is what I always, you know, kind of struggle

01:07:55.460 --> 01:07:58.800
with. Either you get it's not fair or you get

01:07:58.800 --> 01:08:00.679
the strength and conditioning guru is like, all

01:08:00.679 --> 01:08:02.179
right, we're going to do, you know, max jump

01:08:02.179 --> 01:08:04.860
and then max deadlift. And like, well, timeout,

01:08:04.860 --> 01:08:06.780
you know, that doesn't apply either. Let's just

01:08:06.780 --> 01:08:08.860
do the same kind of movements that we did in

01:08:08.860 --> 01:08:11.230
the academy. Take some hose upstairs, you know,

01:08:11.230 --> 01:08:13.570
some weight, you know, move a hose, move a dummy,

01:08:13.690 --> 01:08:16.069
carry a ladder, throw it, you know, whatever

01:08:16.069 --> 01:08:19.210
the basic tools are, because that's it. I mean,

01:08:19.229 --> 01:08:21.430
if you can do that and you show aerobic capacity

01:08:21.430 --> 01:08:23.390
on, you know, I think the stair mill is the best

01:08:23.390 --> 01:08:25.449
thing. All right. Then overall, it looks like

01:08:25.449 --> 01:08:27.130
you're still doing well and we're still staying

01:08:27.130 --> 01:08:31.430
on track. So the opposition to an annual fitness

01:08:31.430 --> 01:08:34.399
standard, I find just maddening because. Firstly,

01:08:34.520 --> 01:08:36.939
the ability to do the job, to get to that 30th

01:08:36.939 --> 01:08:38.619
floor with 100 pounds of gear and facilitate

01:08:38.619 --> 01:08:42.100
that rescue is imperative. But in the same breath,

01:08:42.279 --> 01:08:44.819
you're also forging longevity in your employees

01:08:44.819 --> 01:08:48.659
when you hold them to a fitness standard. Yeah,

01:08:48.680 --> 01:08:50.840
no, I think you're spot on. And I think your

01:08:50.840 --> 01:08:55.000
fitness changes when you're in gear. I can tell

01:08:55.000 --> 01:08:57.319
you in our programming for our academy, every

01:08:57.319 --> 01:09:01.880
Friday, we put you in gear one way or another.

01:09:01.979 --> 01:09:05.149
So it could be. So let me back up real quick.

01:09:05.229 --> 01:09:06.909
In our academy, normally you're going to start

01:09:06.909 --> 01:09:09.550
off with EMT school, right? And then you're going

01:09:09.550 --> 01:09:10.949
to go through EMT school and then you're going

01:09:10.949 --> 01:09:12.909
to go to fire school for the last half of it.

01:09:13.029 --> 01:09:15.770
But even when you're in EMT school, that very

01:09:15.770 --> 01:09:18.109
first Friday, we put you in turnout gear and

01:09:18.109 --> 01:09:19.850
we make you crawl around. We make you do air

01:09:19.850 --> 01:09:22.729
squats. We make you do whatever, right? And every

01:09:22.729 --> 01:09:25.390
single Friday, we call it combat PT. You're going

01:09:25.390 --> 01:09:26.750
to do something. And then eventually what happens

01:09:26.750 --> 01:09:28.649
is you're going to mitigate to out back up to

01:09:28.649 --> 01:09:31.069
the burn building, to the props. Then you're

01:09:31.069 --> 01:09:32.630
going to be asked to carry stuff, drag hoses.

01:09:32.890 --> 01:09:36.710
But every single week during the academy, you're

01:09:36.710 --> 01:09:38.609
going to be wearing turnout gear and stuff like

01:09:38.609 --> 01:09:40.630
that. So you come back to the incumbent side.

01:09:41.210 --> 01:09:43.850
Every single week, shouldn't you be putting on

01:09:43.850 --> 01:09:45.630
your gear and doing some form of training to

01:09:45.630 --> 01:09:47.789
make sure that your fitness level is up? Yes,

01:09:47.789 --> 01:09:52.390
but do they? Probably not. Yeah. Well, the problem

01:09:52.390 --> 01:09:54.989
we've got now, and it's a valid one, is not only

01:09:54.989 --> 01:09:57.689
the carcinogens, if you haven't got a good decon

01:09:57.689 --> 01:09:59.689
program, but now you've got these PFAS in the

01:09:59.689 --> 01:10:03.210
gear as well, which is just adding to that perfect

01:10:03.210 --> 01:10:07.250
storm of carcinogens. So getting down the road,

01:10:07.270 --> 01:10:10.789
at least, either a PT set of fire gear that's

01:10:10.789 --> 01:10:13.970
not fire resistant, but mimics the heat, or getting

01:10:13.970 --> 01:10:17.850
ideally PFAS free gear where now you can safely

01:10:17.850 --> 01:10:19.850
PT. Because I get the argument for and against.

01:10:20.539 --> 01:10:24.020
But you can't be a structural firefighter and

01:10:24.020 --> 01:10:26.680
not spend time suffering in your gear. It's just

01:10:26.680 --> 01:10:29.000
otherwise you're going to get to a fire and you're

01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:33.060
going to fall apart. Yeah. It changes a lot,

01:10:33.100 --> 01:10:37.199
too. Your VO2 changes and everything. And if

01:10:37.199 --> 01:10:39.500
we're worried about people, like you said, falling

01:10:39.500 --> 01:10:42.380
apart, falling out, whatever, on fire ground,

01:10:42.560 --> 01:10:44.199
then you might want to be accustomed to what

01:10:44.199 --> 01:10:48.079
you're getting into. So we've talked about some

01:10:48.079 --> 01:10:50.800
of the kind of methods of training as far as

01:10:50.800 --> 01:10:53.039
gear and that kind of thing. What about principles?

01:10:53.239 --> 01:10:55.899
What are the movements that you like, the training

01:10:55.899 --> 01:11:00.420
philosophies to start building the aerobic endurance

01:11:00.420 --> 01:11:04.079
and the strength capacity of these first responders

01:11:04.079 --> 01:11:07.020
that you're working with? Yeah, so I'll speak

01:11:07.020 --> 01:11:09.779
heavily on the recruit side of things. So we

01:11:09.779 --> 01:11:12.479
spend about four weeks in a GPP phase, and normally

01:11:12.479 --> 01:11:17.270
it's totally unloaded. um a lot of body weight

01:11:17.270 --> 01:11:19.229
exercise body weight movements we want to see

01:11:19.229 --> 01:11:21.430
how these guys can move right does the majority

01:11:21.430 --> 01:11:23.909
of class have shoulder range of motion issues

01:11:23.909 --> 01:11:27.409
or can they can they squat properly you know

01:11:27.409 --> 01:11:31.590
um so we spend about four weeks just doing unloaded

01:11:31.590 --> 01:11:35.609
stuff um every wednesday we like to get out and

01:11:35.609 --> 01:11:37.149
take field trips so we go running around the

01:11:37.149 --> 01:11:39.670
city so to speak or we'll go to the beach or

01:11:39.670 --> 01:11:41.869
or something and do different stuff um and then

01:11:41.869 --> 01:11:43.989
probably after about four weeks we we start to

01:11:43.989 --> 01:11:47.550
educate uh our individuals on barbells right

01:11:47.550 --> 01:11:50.090
on different barbell movements um that's going

01:11:50.090 --> 01:11:52.310
to be expected of them uh we because you have

01:11:52.310 --> 01:11:53.829
some people come in they've never touched a barbell

01:11:53.829 --> 01:11:56.369
right um they've never touched a kettlebell dumbbell

01:11:56.369 --> 01:11:58.930
whatever so we want to see what these guys look

01:11:58.930 --> 01:12:01.909
like right using an unloaded barbell and what

01:12:01.909 --> 01:12:03.489
kind of movement patterns they have so then what

01:12:03.489 --> 01:12:05.989
we can do is better look at our groups right

01:12:05.989 --> 01:12:10.130
and try to put like people together um a little

01:12:10.130 --> 01:12:12.630
bit And then what happens is when we first get

01:12:12.630 --> 01:12:14.970
into weight training, right, we are able to put

01:12:14.970 --> 01:12:17.609
better eyes on individuals that might need more

01:12:17.609 --> 01:12:20.729
help. You know, our training staff helped us.

01:12:20.789 --> 01:12:23.329
But, you know, when you're at when me and Mike

01:12:23.329 --> 01:12:26.729
have a class of 50 or 60 people, it's hard to

01:12:26.729 --> 01:12:28.750
watch everyone. Right. And, you know, safety

01:12:28.750 --> 01:12:31.590
is our first thing. So we try to use that. And

01:12:31.590 --> 01:12:34.149
then if we have any individuals in our academy

01:12:34.149 --> 01:12:37.140
that have. training experience right and after

01:12:37.140 --> 01:12:39.039
we've seen a little bit we'll let them help out

01:12:39.039 --> 01:12:42.060
you know um just keep eyes for safety but uh

01:12:42.060 --> 01:12:44.020
but so after we go through our barbell stuff

01:12:44.020 --> 01:12:47.279
we use a little bit of caldeets triphasic um

01:12:47.279 --> 01:12:50.460
methodology and like our first two weeks we do

01:12:50.460 --> 01:12:53.579
a lot of eccentrically focused compound lifting

01:12:53.579 --> 01:12:55.680
and the reason is it's because we want to see

01:12:55.680 --> 01:12:57.460
how you can absorb load because you're going

01:12:57.460 --> 01:12:59.060
to be put under load right so we want to see

01:12:59.060 --> 01:13:01.399
if you can absorb load and normally about after

01:13:01.399 --> 01:13:03.479
two weeks of that then we go into a more stabilization

01:13:03.479 --> 01:13:07.170
so we'll go into quick movements into uh isometric

01:13:07.170 --> 01:13:10.250
holds for extended period of times because well

01:13:10.250 --> 01:13:11.869
in the fire ground you're going to be asked to

01:13:11.869 --> 01:13:14.289
hold stuff under load could be a hose could be

01:13:14.289 --> 01:13:15.850
a ladder so we want to see if you can absorb

01:13:15.850 --> 01:13:18.489
load and can you stabilize load if you can do

01:13:18.489 --> 01:13:20.289
those two things then i know you can produce

01:13:20.289 --> 01:13:23.550
force so normally what happens after those two

01:13:23.550 --> 01:13:26.250
weeks then we go and do more traditional uh contractile

01:13:26.250 --> 01:13:29.090
movements you know through full range of motions

01:13:29.090 --> 01:13:30.649
and stuff like that and we get more into your

01:13:30.649 --> 01:13:33.239
power and explosion and we run through that whole

01:13:33.239 --> 01:13:35.079
myriad and then probably about two weeks before

01:13:35.079 --> 01:13:38.159
going out to fire school we start to unload you

01:13:38.159 --> 01:13:40.380
and and just start to work a more traditional

01:13:40.380 --> 01:13:44.039
um power and speed and and all that stuff so

01:13:44.039 --> 01:13:46.039
we kind of follow that mentality but what allows

01:13:46.039 --> 01:13:48.720
our guys to do is before they're getting i jokingly

01:13:48.720 --> 01:13:49.819
say this before they're getting ready to get

01:13:49.819 --> 01:13:52.760
their teeth kicked in in fire school that it

01:13:52.760 --> 01:13:54.819
allows their body to kind of recoup for two weeks

01:13:54.819 --> 01:13:57.739
so so we beat you up we've gotten you stronger

01:13:57.739 --> 01:14:00.609
we've gotten you used to uh absorbing load and

01:14:00.609 --> 01:14:02.630
stabilizing your load and be able to pick heavy

01:14:02.630 --> 01:14:04.449
stuff up and move it because people aren't getting

01:14:04.449 --> 01:14:08.510
smaller nowadays so so we get to that point and

01:14:08.510 --> 01:14:09.909
then what happens is okay we're going to unload

01:14:09.909 --> 01:14:11.270
you and we're going to try to get you moving

01:14:11.270 --> 01:14:13.430
moving around moving fast and stuff like that

01:14:13.430 --> 01:14:15.590
so then when you hit fire school you should be

01:14:15.590 --> 01:14:19.930
refreshed and ready to go talk to me about rest

01:14:19.930 --> 01:14:23.090
and recovery so before they even go on shift

01:14:23.090 --> 01:14:25.329
what advice you giving these young recruits so

01:14:25.329 --> 01:14:28.350
they can recover as much as possible for the

01:14:28.350 --> 01:14:32.520
next day Yeah, so we go over, we do sleep lectures

01:14:32.520 --> 01:14:35.220
and make them understand like what different

01:14:35.220 --> 01:14:37.840
sleep cycles look like and how to understand,

01:14:38.060 --> 01:14:41.819
you know, your drowsiness and much like we've

01:14:41.819 --> 01:14:44.119
talked before is that a lot of times these young

01:14:44.119 --> 01:14:46.739
recruits don't, like they're young and they're

01:14:46.739 --> 01:14:48.739
able to go, right? The battery stays charged,

01:14:48.859 --> 01:14:51.680
I jokingly say longer. But the problem is, is

01:14:51.680 --> 01:14:55.899
if you go out to this, your first shift at your

01:14:55.899 --> 01:14:58.119
first station and you're up. you know half the

01:14:58.119 --> 01:15:00.000
night you know and then you're you're excited

01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:01.899
and you're amped and then you go home and you

01:15:01.899 --> 01:15:04.220
want to tell your family about it right just

01:15:04.220 --> 01:15:06.000
know like you might only have 24 hours where

01:15:06.000 --> 01:15:07.520
you got to rinse and repeat that whole cycle

01:15:07.520 --> 01:15:09.619
again so it's so it's tough so you need to go

01:15:09.619 --> 01:15:11.659
home make sure you get your stuff together right

01:15:11.659 --> 01:15:13.920
uh get your stuff packed up and try to get in

01:15:13.920 --> 01:15:15.600
bed early enough because you need to come back

01:15:15.600 --> 01:15:19.020
in the next morning uh and you know replace the

01:15:19.020 --> 01:15:21.220
next guy but i i think a lot of times these guys

01:15:21.220 --> 01:15:23.399
don't understand the wear and tear it takes on

01:15:23.399 --> 01:15:26.020
their body um but we try to educate them that

01:15:26.470 --> 01:15:29.409
and i i'm as chief i know you talked to chief

01:15:29.409 --> 01:15:32.310
has he explained our schedule to you at all um

01:15:32.310 --> 01:15:34.770
i think he has but not certainly not you know

01:15:34.770 --> 01:15:36.109
we haven't heard it on here i don't think so

01:15:36.109 --> 01:15:39.550
let's unpack it yeah so it's crazy it's a 21

01:15:39.550 --> 01:15:42.789
day cycle um and then that first week it's pretty

01:15:42.789 --> 01:15:44.149
much you're on you're off you're on you're off

01:15:44.149 --> 01:15:46.090
you're on you're off you're on you're off and

01:15:46.090 --> 01:15:48.329
you know and then you're you're off for three

01:15:48.329 --> 01:15:51.310
days and you're on you're off you're on I'm messing

01:15:51.310 --> 01:15:53.670
this up probably a little bit, but you guys exceptionally

01:15:53.670 --> 01:15:55.270
get this, right? And then you're off for two

01:15:55.270 --> 01:15:57.149
days, then you're on, you're off. It's roughly

01:15:57.149 --> 01:15:58.470
something like that. But as you can see that

01:15:58.470 --> 01:16:00.949
first week, right? They call it hell week. You're

01:16:00.949 --> 01:16:03.149
getting your head kicked in, right? So you're

01:16:03.149 --> 01:16:05.649
up a lot at night and you're asked to go home

01:16:05.649 --> 01:16:07.890
and rinse and recover and stuff like that. So

01:16:07.890 --> 01:16:11.170
what we try to tell our individuals, yeah, during

01:16:11.170 --> 01:16:12.970
hell week, you're probably not going to get good

01:16:12.970 --> 01:16:15.970
quality sleep, unfortunately, right? However,

01:16:16.149 --> 01:16:18.829
when you hit your two days off or your three

01:16:18.829 --> 01:16:21.579
days off or your five day off, It is imperative

01:16:21.579 --> 01:16:25.260
that you take some time out of your own schedule

01:16:25.260 --> 01:16:28.960
and get recovered, get good quality sleep, maybe

01:16:28.960 --> 01:16:30.560
not go out with your friends. Definitely try

01:16:30.560 --> 01:16:32.760
to stay away from drinking alcohol because we

01:16:32.760 --> 01:16:35.079
know already alcohol destroys our whole sleep

01:16:35.079 --> 01:16:39.039
cycles. But that, again, is tough because, unfortunately,

01:16:39.199 --> 01:16:40.939
I joke with people in the fire department, what

01:16:40.939 --> 01:16:43.800
do the firemen like to do? All our social events

01:16:43.800 --> 01:16:47.539
are usually involved in alcohol, right? So we

01:16:47.539 --> 01:16:50.159
got to get ahead of that. To get back to your

01:16:50.159 --> 01:16:53.159
question, we just do a lot of education, and

01:16:53.159 --> 01:16:57.260
we try to explain to them the downfalls of not

01:16:57.260 --> 01:17:00.399
sleeping and how it's going to affect you. We

01:17:00.399 --> 01:17:04.220
educate them on caffeine and adenosine and all

01:17:04.220 --> 01:17:09.060
that. I think it's tough because when you get

01:17:09.060 --> 01:17:11.539
out to the station, you're trying to keep up

01:17:11.539 --> 01:17:13.659
with the senior guy, and you still want to go

01:17:13.659 --> 01:17:15.359
home, and you want to go hang out with your buddies

01:17:15.359 --> 01:17:17.899
that are your age. I think it can be very tough.

01:17:19.390 --> 01:17:21.590
Absolutely. Well, we mentioned mutual friend

01:17:21.590 --> 01:17:25.329
Melissa from TeamBuilder. So you've talked about

01:17:25.329 --> 01:17:27.470
50 recruits, for example, in the class, and you've

01:17:27.470 --> 01:17:30.029
got all the people that are already on the floor,

01:17:30.069 --> 01:17:33.090
as it were. Talk to me about the applications

01:17:33.090 --> 01:17:35.829
as far as TeamBuilder with your department, and

01:17:35.829 --> 01:17:37.510
then what are some of the areas that you love

01:17:37.510 --> 01:17:41.229
about it? Yeah. So I think the biggest thing

01:17:41.229 --> 01:17:44.050
I say we really have gotten from TeamBuilder

01:17:44.050 --> 01:17:47.979
is the fact that we create surveys for all our

01:17:47.979 --> 01:17:51.100
recruits in the morning and these surveys um

01:17:51.100 --> 01:17:53.460
ask them to put down the amount of sleep they

01:17:53.460 --> 01:17:55.680
got what their body weight is what their urine

01:17:55.680 --> 01:17:58.180
color is their respiratory rate their heart rate

01:17:58.180 --> 01:18:00.520
their blood pressure what's their subjective

01:18:00.520 --> 01:18:04.079
stress level um just a myriad of things but it's

01:18:04.079 --> 01:18:06.220
it's really fast and efficient they can do it

01:18:06.220 --> 01:18:08.800
on their phone um but the one good thing about

01:18:08.800 --> 01:18:11.840
that is if we get a better idea of truly how

01:18:11.840 --> 01:18:14.899
their health is right and then um when it comes

01:18:14.899 --> 01:18:17.760
to nfpa standards you know are they falling within

01:18:17.760 --> 01:18:20.300
npa guidelines to be able to do training you

01:18:20.300 --> 01:18:22.600
know right off the bat um are these guys coming

01:18:22.600 --> 01:18:24.720
in hydrated right and if they're not coming in

01:18:24.720 --> 01:18:27.140
hydrated then it's on me and mike to make sure

01:18:27.140 --> 01:18:28.579
hey we're going to make sure you're hydrated

01:18:28.579 --> 01:18:30.720
before you go out to do burns or something like

01:18:30.720 --> 01:18:34.720
that so that's the biggest onus that we've gotten

01:18:34.720 --> 01:18:37.420
from teamboat as far as the recruit side now

01:18:37.420 --> 01:18:39.220
we've been lucky enough to be able to take that

01:18:39.220 --> 01:18:41.779
data and give it to universities such as george

01:18:41.779 --> 01:18:44.319
mason and joel martin's crew up there and they

01:18:44.319 --> 01:18:47.060
they've created some readiness um studies out

01:18:47.060 --> 01:18:50.319
of it as well um now the other good point is

01:18:50.319 --> 01:18:54.619
we're a decent sized department um you know i

01:18:54.619 --> 01:18:56.340
can't get to everyone and i can't get to every

01:18:56.340 --> 01:18:59.079
fire station in the city so good thing of the

01:18:59.079 --> 01:19:01.630
technology everyone has a phone we're able to

01:19:01.630 --> 01:19:03.930
write programs uh being if you want to get in

01:19:03.930 --> 01:19:06.649
shape are you coming back from injuries um you

01:19:06.649 --> 01:19:09.050
know as we've talked before we do a lot of return

01:19:09.050 --> 01:19:11.930
to work based off of what we get from doctors

01:19:11.930 --> 01:19:15.510
and their scripts and their um indication of

01:19:15.510 --> 01:19:16.949
the counter indication so what we can do is we

01:19:16.949 --> 01:19:20.930
can say okay we see that you are six weeks out

01:19:20.930 --> 01:19:23.970
of surgery uh your pt says you're able to do

01:19:23.970 --> 01:19:26.029
this this and this but stay away from this so

01:19:26.029 --> 01:19:29.569
we can able to then go and program it So you

01:19:29.569 --> 01:19:31.789
can either do it at home or you can do it in

01:19:31.789 --> 01:19:33.810
the station. Every station that we have is outfitted

01:19:33.810 --> 01:19:37.310
with a rogue rack, rogue weights, kettlebells,

01:19:37.310 --> 01:19:40.270
rowers, treadmills, crazy. We're pretty committed

01:19:40.270 --> 01:19:43.109
to the fitness side of things up here. So we're

01:19:43.109 --> 01:19:45.449
able to program things out for them as well.

01:19:45.609 --> 01:19:47.130
And the good thing about Team Builder, if they

01:19:47.130 --> 01:19:49.409
have an issue, they can always message us through

01:19:49.409 --> 01:19:52.369
it if they want to or whatnot. So yeah, Team

01:19:52.369 --> 01:19:55.250
Builder has been very good to us. are you able

01:19:55.250 --> 01:19:57.789
to see trends with all these surveys and all

01:19:57.789 --> 01:19:59.550
this data you're collecting are you able to see

01:19:59.550 --> 01:20:01.930
for example if you're implementing certain programs

01:20:01.930 --> 01:20:05.350
like an overall improvement in areas yeah you

01:20:05.350 --> 01:20:08.649
can so so that's a good thing um you you can

01:20:08.649 --> 01:20:10.649
we can track weight trends and stuff like that

01:20:10.649 --> 01:20:12.710
so that's one thing we're pushing a little bit

01:20:12.710 --> 01:20:16.210
more for in this upcoming academy is to get a

01:20:16.210 --> 01:20:19.229
little bit better of having our guys actually

01:20:19.229 --> 01:20:22.579
track some of their their compound lifts so we

01:20:22.579 --> 01:20:24.079
get a better understanding of really if these

01:20:24.079 --> 01:20:27.039
guys are pushing themselves um in that aspect

01:20:27.039 --> 01:20:30.619
and when i come back to the survey um we have

01:20:30.619 --> 01:20:33.859
we have used it to consistently track uh weight

01:20:33.859 --> 01:20:35.840
gain and weight loss in the academy or for the

01:20:35.840 --> 01:20:38.199
better part weight loss we've never really seen

01:20:38.199 --> 01:20:40.380
anyone gain weight in the academy however what

01:20:40.380 --> 01:20:42.640
what really came from it is we were able to use

01:20:42.640 --> 01:20:46.020
that data and then go upstairs um to our senior

01:20:46.020 --> 01:20:49.039
staff and be like hey listen on on average these

01:20:49.039 --> 01:20:51.819
guys are losing seven pounds right not body fat

01:20:51.819 --> 01:20:55.140
of a fluid weight during their first week of

01:20:55.140 --> 01:20:59.039
um of the fire academy uh so i think it'd be

01:20:59.039 --> 01:21:01.399
a good idea to maybe that we invest in an ors

01:21:01.399 --> 01:21:04.220
like a drip drop or a liquid iv you know what

01:21:04.220 --> 01:21:06.319
i'm saying like so we've gotten good feedback

01:21:06.319 --> 01:21:09.380
from our department like okay well do you have

01:21:09.380 --> 01:21:11.739
data well yeah here's data from the last five

01:21:11.739 --> 01:21:13.840
academies so to speak you know and this is why

01:21:13.840 --> 01:21:16.359
we should use it and and why not so we we use

01:21:16.359 --> 01:21:19.670
it quite a bit um to collect data i think that's

01:21:19.670 --> 01:21:21.810
the easiest part for us because guys can go on

01:21:21.810 --> 01:21:24.649
there click it in go there you know they weigh

01:21:24.649 --> 01:21:27.649
in the morning so that that portability is a

01:21:27.649 --> 01:21:30.250
huge thing for us that's something i've heard

01:21:30.250 --> 01:21:32.689
quite a few people in the show mentioned is uh

01:21:32.689 --> 01:21:35.409
you know dehydration the use of energy drinks

01:21:35.409 --> 01:21:37.890
and the rap though that they're seeing in some

01:21:37.890 --> 01:21:41.850
of these recruit programs yeah we've we've had

01:21:41.850 --> 01:21:46.520
it um you know and it wasn't necessarily um through

01:21:46.520 --> 01:21:50.260
a pure exercise standpoint. What happens is when

01:21:50.260 --> 01:21:53.720
they hit fire school, that's a whole nother level,

01:21:53.779 --> 01:21:56.520
right? And it's not cold here in Virginia Beach.

01:21:56.600 --> 01:21:58.539
So we've had to run some, you know, during the

01:21:58.539 --> 01:22:00.880
summer, late fall and stuff. So guys will hit

01:22:00.880 --> 01:22:07.239
fire school and they'll come in and be just borderline

01:22:07.239 --> 01:22:10.539
enough to pass as far as what their body weight

01:22:10.539 --> 01:22:12.939
was the day before, right? So we know that most

01:22:12.939 --> 01:22:15.100
of that weight gain back is going to be fluid.

01:22:15.579 --> 01:22:17.840
so they'll come in you know they'll be going

01:22:17.840 --> 01:22:19.680
through and they're already beat up and what

01:22:19.680 --> 01:22:21.760
we've had is we've had two or three cases where

01:22:21.760 --> 01:22:24.739
we've had to move people out in a box um amulets

01:22:24.739 --> 01:22:28.220
um just so i'm not confident that's good yeah

01:22:28.220 --> 01:22:34.000
right yeah thank you just yeah yeah so you know

01:22:34.000 --> 01:22:36.859
we had to go seek better medical treatment you

01:22:36.859 --> 01:22:40.460
know than what uh like emts here on site can

01:22:40.460 --> 01:22:42.420
treat just because they're so severely dehydrated

01:22:42.420 --> 01:22:45.710
and why not but um you know there's there's the

01:22:45.710 --> 01:22:48.989
other side of that like we asked them hey are

01:22:48.989 --> 01:22:51.229
you do you feel all right you know you're just

01:22:51.229 --> 01:22:54.329
borderline to where we like you to be as far

01:22:54.329 --> 01:22:58.189
as hydration yeah i'm good to go well we kind

01:22:58.189 --> 01:22:59.750
of got an idea it's probably gonna happen doesn't

01:22:59.750 --> 01:23:02.069
always happen but um kind of idea that yeah most

01:23:02.069 --> 01:23:03.470
of these guys are gonna end up being severely

01:23:03.470 --> 01:23:05.329
dehydrated and then they get shipped off and

01:23:06.180 --> 01:23:08.060
we know what's going to happen, right? You're

01:23:08.060 --> 01:23:09.939
going to go to the ER. They're going to test

01:23:09.939 --> 01:23:11.460
you. You're going to come back. You're dehydrated.

01:23:11.619 --> 01:23:14.960
Your levels are up and it's going to be okay.

01:23:15.359 --> 01:23:16.840
We're going to hold you for two days and we're

01:23:16.840 --> 01:23:19.239
going to release you, right? And it's because

01:23:19.239 --> 01:23:21.659
they've been working hard, right? They're pretty

01:23:21.659 --> 01:23:23.659
much in the middle of a high intensity workout,

01:23:23.819 --> 01:23:25.939
let's just say, right? So everything's crazy.

01:23:26.359 --> 01:23:30.239
So yeah, there's definitely rhabdo cases. Like

01:23:30.239 --> 01:23:32.359
we try to stay away from it as much as we can.

01:23:33.119 --> 01:23:35.920
We've gotten to the point now where... We give

01:23:35.920 --> 01:23:38.399
longer breaks. We got a slushie machine, you

01:23:38.399 --> 01:23:41.039
know, that we make slushies and we give out like

01:23:41.039 --> 01:23:43.159
to help drop that core temperature to help keep

01:23:43.159 --> 01:23:46.260
them colder as well. So yeah, we've tried to

01:23:46.260 --> 01:23:50.199
mitigate it a lot of ways. You know, you can

01:23:50.199 --> 01:23:51.539
lead a horse to water. You can't make them drink.

01:23:51.600 --> 01:23:53.140
That's what I've learned with recruits. You know,

01:23:53.180 --> 01:23:55.760
we can educate the heck out of them and you're

01:23:55.760 --> 01:23:57.260
still going to have some cases, unfortunately.

01:23:57.399 --> 01:23:59.239
I mean, you can have a great team and you see

01:23:59.239 --> 01:24:01.079
pro athletes. It still happens with pro athletes,

01:24:01.159 --> 01:24:04.260
unfortunately. Speaking of education, that was

01:24:04.260 --> 01:24:07.689
a good segue. One of the things that I've realized,

01:24:08.109 --> 01:24:11.689
certainly on the shift side, and I'll get your

01:24:11.689 --> 01:24:14.130
take on the strength and conditioning side. On

01:24:14.130 --> 01:24:17.270
the shift side, there's very little research

01:24:17.270 --> 01:24:19.689
being done on firefighter shifts. And sadly,

01:24:19.770 --> 01:24:22.449
what I'm realizing is now there's a need for

01:24:22.449 --> 01:24:26.560
culturally competent researchers. Not just people

01:24:26.560 --> 01:24:28.260
who are kind of on the outside looking in, but

01:24:28.260 --> 01:24:29.779
people like you said, that have gone through

01:24:29.779 --> 01:24:31.500
a fire academy, had done the job, that really

01:24:31.500 --> 01:24:33.939
understand, okay, this is what it feels like

01:24:33.939 --> 01:24:38.100
to do a 24 -48 or the shift schedule that you

01:24:38.100 --> 01:24:41.039
guys do. And so you end up with these studies.

01:24:41.239 --> 01:24:43.239
They're very, very small studies. They're on

01:24:43.239 --> 01:24:45.439
one type of department, and then the whole country

01:24:45.439 --> 01:24:48.319
runs with it, and they end up advocating for

01:24:48.319 --> 01:24:50.699
a worse schedule than they were in before, i

01:24:50.699 --> 01:24:54.210
.e. the 48 -96. And it's very dangerous. any

01:24:54.210 --> 01:24:57.430
fault of the the researcher but it shows that

01:24:57.430 --> 01:25:00.390
the same parallel so many of our guys and girls

01:25:00.390 --> 01:25:02.869
that go to a mental health practitioner and that

01:25:02.869 --> 01:25:05.090
person has never worked with one of us before

01:25:05.090 --> 01:25:07.770
more often than not it makes it worse not better

01:25:07.770 --> 01:25:10.750
it's the same thing with the research so whether

01:25:10.750 --> 01:25:12.970
it's the the shift sleep or whether it's just

01:25:12.970 --> 01:25:15.050
strength and conditioning what are you seeing

01:25:15.050 --> 01:25:19.090
as far as the research world and the the um i

01:25:19.090 --> 01:25:23.109
guess the culturally competent element of truly

01:25:23.109 --> 01:25:25.510
understanding what we do in the research that

01:25:25.510 --> 01:25:27.630
you are reading and exposed to at the moment?

01:25:28.149 --> 01:25:31.710
Yeah, research is always funny to me. I'm all

01:25:31.710 --> 01:25:35.390
about it. Our guys in our department would like

01:25:35.390 --> 01:25:38.289
to be involved with more research. Normally,

01:25:38.390 --> 01:25:40.250
though, they want it to either be sleep -based

01:25:40.250 --> 01:25:42.010
or performance -based. And I always think about

01:25:42.010 --> 01:25:43.789
it's all back to performance in the end because

01:25:43.789 --> 01:25:46.689
they're linking their sleep to their performance,

01:25:46.810 --> 01:25:49.369
either in the fire station or how they're performing

01:25:49.369 --> 01:25:52.630
on their workouts or whatever, not. So I think

01:25:52.630 --> 01:25:56.090
that's a big thing that would help the fire service

01:25:56.090 --> 01:25:59.350
if we were able to get a better understanding

01:25:59.350 --> 01:26:02.109
that I think a lot of our guys, when they think

01:26:02.109 --> 01:26:04.369
research, they're thinking research on the athlete.

01:26:04.670 --> 01:26:09.510
And that's what they want to see. How will this

01:26:09.510 --> 01:26:12.810
research better help me perform at my job or

01:26:12.810 --> 01:26:16.010
whatever we do? If it helps you perform better

01:26:16.010 --> 01:26:17.210
at your job, more than most likely it's going

01:26:17.210 --> 01:26:19.390
to have health benefits to you. That's what I'm

01:26:19.390 --> 01:26:22.699
going to guess on that one. right so i i think

01:26:22.699 --> 01:26:25.920
that's a good thing um like i said like i've

01:26:25.920 --> 01:26:27.720
worked with joel martin a little bit i i work

01:26:27.720 --> 01:26:31.800
extensively with dr eric ryan out of unc or university

01:26:31.800 --> 01:26:34.739
of north carolina and their in motion lab um

01:26:34.739 --> 01:26:37.060
primarily right now we're working on slip trips

01:26:37.060 --> 01:26:40.640
and fall um study they'll be back up in two weeks

01:26:40.640 --> 01:26:44.140
to finish some stuff up but i he's he's just

01:26:44.140 --> 01:26:46.060
getting going and niosh and stuff like that and

01:26:46.060 --> 01:26:48.220
we talk all the time about some different things

01:26:48.220 --> 01:26:50.979
that um that they can work on i know one of his

01:26:50.979 --> 01:26:54.899
phd students is going to work on um i'm going

01:26:54.899 --> 01:26:56.479
to mess this up a little bit but it has to do

01:26:56.479 --> 01:27:00.460
with exercise fatigue on firefighters with cancer

01:27:00.460 --> 01:27:04.020
um so he's trying to go that route and just get

01:27:04.020 --> 01:27:06.380
a better understanding on like different the

01:27:06.380 --> 01:27:08.579
different myriads of the fire service but he's

01:27:08.579 --> 01:27:12.979
very committed um to like anything and everything

01:27:12.979 --> 01:27:15.319
when it comes to the fire service and the physical

01:27:15.319 --> 01:27:19.100
uh well -being of it so uh great great crew there

01:27:19.100 --> 01:27:22.920
um but yeah so i i think if we want to get more

01:27:22.920 --> 01:27:24.880
research well i think people are willing to do

01:27:24.880 --> 01:27:26.319
it especially if you get into the young guys

01:27:26.319 --> 01:27:28.380
because the young guys have grown up more with

01:27:28.380 --> 01:27:32.560
the woops the auras the the i'm the iphones uh

01:27:32.560 --> 01:27:34.939
you know so they're used to looking at their

01:27:34.939 --> 01:27:38.260
metrics or or whatever not versus i think i found

01:27:38.260 --> 01:27:41.670
personally that older guys tend to be like how

01:27:41.670 --> 01:27:44.310
are you going to use this against me? I'm like,

01:27:44.390 --> 01:27:46.710
no, we're not using this against you. You understand,

01:27:46.890 --> 01:27:49.750
like research is used to help get funding, right?

01:27:49.869 --> 01:27:52.250
And funding can be for health metrics. It can

01:27:52.250 --> 01:27:54.689
be for a ton of stuff. And, you know, so I think

01:27:54.689 --> 01:27:57.569
that's tough. But I do think if we were smart

01:27:57.569 --> 01:28:01.710
as a fire service that we would dive wholeheartedly

01:28:01.710 --> 01:28:06.310
and get into the research. I believe some chiefs

01:28:06.310 --> 01:28:08.310
are apprehensive as well to get into it. I don't

01:28:08.310 --> 01:28:11.760
know why. yeah, I mean, someone else is coming

01:28:11.760 --> 01:28:13.359
in and doing all the work, but they're going

01:28:13.359 --> 01:28:15.619
to work around your schedule, right? They're

01:28:15.619 --> 01:28:16.960
not going to be like, oh, no, you can't go on

01:28:16.960 --> 01:28:18.380
that call. We have to do this blood pressure

01:28:18.380 --> 01:28:20.380
test right now, right? They're like, okay, we'll

01:28:20.380 --> 01:28:23.760
get it another day or another time. So, yeah,

01:28:23.859 --> 01:28:26.479
so I don't know. It's a great question because

01:28:26.479 --> 01:28:29.340
I've never wondered, I'm sorry, I was like, I've

01:28:29.340 --> 01:28:31.359
always wondered why more departments don't get

01:28:31.359 --> 01:28:35.140
involved with research. I think one of the biggest

01:28:35.140 --> 01:28:38.359
barriers that I see is that, you know, because

01:28:38.359 --> 01:28:40.760
again, when you're asked for research in some

01:28:40.760 --> 01:28:43.100
areas like we don't need research for that like

01:28:43.100 --> 01:28:46.439
for example as i say all the time that a 24 72

01:28:46.439 --> 01:28:49.399
is going to be healthier than 24 48 i mean do

01:28:49.399 --> 01:28:51.680
we need to go to a lab for that an extra 24 hour

01:28:51.680 --> 01:28:53.579
recovery period between shifts of course it's

01:28:53.579 --> 01:28:57.079
going to benefit people but i think there's a

01:28:57.079 --> 01:28:59.979
fear that it's going to expose you know all these

01:28:59.979 --> 01:29:02.100
things that do need to be fixed and you know

01:29:02.100 --> 01:29:04.159
you need more staffing and you need to have fitness

01:29:04.159 --> 01:29:07.270
standards so there's action required But the

01:29:07.270 --> 01:29:09.609
juice is worth the squeeze. When you, you know,

01:29:09.609 --> 01:29:12.350
really verify what we already know and you set

01:29:12.350 --> 01:29:15.510
those standards and you, you know, reverse issues

01:29:15.510 --> 01:29:17.550
that are preventing recruitment and you fully

01:29:17.550 --> 01:29:19.369
staff your department, you know, you're just

01:29:19.369 --> 01:29:21.229
going to be operating at a higher level and you're

01:29:21.229 --> 01:29:23.890
going to have a healthier workforce. So, you

01:29:23.890 --> 01:29:25.710
know, sadly, I think a lot of that resistance

01:29:25.710 --> 01:29:28.369
comes from fear. And even going back to the old

01:29:28.369 --> 01:29:30.850
guys with that minimum standards thing again,

01:29:30.970 --> 01:29:33.630
you as a firefighter, if you're scared of being

01:29:33.630 --> 01:29:36.350
asked to do your job. you're in the wrong job.

01:29:36.470 --> 01:29:39.130
It's just that simple. If you're scared of being

01:29:39.130 --> 01:29:41.829
tired, this is something one of my guests said

01:29:41.829 --> 01:29:45.029
recently about exercise. People are scared of

01:29:45.029 --> 01:29:46.909
being tired. And it's like, well, think about

01:29:46.909 --> 01:29:49.369
that. Do you want the guy that's scared of being

01:29:49.369 --> 01:29:51.850
tired in the passenger side of your police car

01:29:51.850 --> 01:29:54.270
or in the back of your fire engine? No, you don't.

01:29:54.270 --> 01:29:57.029
You want the person who got tired two days ago

01:29:57.029 --> 01:29:58.510
when they were working out and pushed themselves

01:29:58.510 --> 01:30:00.890
and is ready to climb that 30 stories with 100

01:30:00.890 --> 01:30:03.409
pounds of gear on their back. So no matter how

01:30:03.409 --> 01:30:06.510
you look at it, You know, the truth is there

01:30:06.510 --> 01:30:08.250
and it's just, okay, you really got to look in

01:30:08.250 --> 01:30:11.949
the mirror and go, am I truly wanting a solution

01:30:11.949 --> 01:30:15.510
or am I really putting roadblocks to stop this

01:30:15.510 --> 01:30:18.069
research, these innovations from happening because

01:30:18.069 --> 01:30:21.029
I'm worried about my own journey? And I think

01:30:21.029 --> 01:30:22.710
most people, you know, if they look in the mirror

01:30:22.710 --> 01:30:25.069
and evaluate, they're like, okay, I've kind of

01:30:25.069 --> 01:30:27.310
deviated from the initial thing, which was I

01:30:27.310 --> 01:30:29.800
want to help people. I need to get back on track.

01:30:29.920 --> 01:30:31.380
I don't think there's too many people in these

01:30:31.380 --> 01:30:34.380
positions that are really malicious or that uncaring,

01:30:34.420 --> 01:30:37.479
but we've definitely kind of slipped away from

01:30:37.479 --> 01:30:40.359
the mission, which is delivery of service and

01:30:40.359 --> 01:30:42.840
making sure everyone goes home, not just goes

01:30:42.840 --> 01:30:44.920
home, but goes home every day they were supposed

01:30:44.920 --> 01:30:47.279
to go home rather than being forced to work all

01:30:47.279 --> 01:30:50.159
these extra shifts. Yeah, I think you're nailing

01:30:50.159 --> 01:30:52.600
the head with the fear thing. Like we've did

01:30:52.600 --> 01:30:55.890
gallery testing here for cancer and I know. Not

01:30:55.890 --> 01:30:59.050
everyone did it. One guy I talked to, he said,

01:30:59.109 --> 01:31:01.250
I just kind of fear the unknown. If I don't know

01:31:01.250 --> 01:31:02.949
about it, I don't know about it. I'm like, well,

01:31:03.029 --> 01:31:04.430
wouldn't you want to know about it to get ahead?

01:31:04.670 --> 01:31:07.289
So I think you're right about the fear thing.

01:31:08.590 --> 01:31:10.829
Absolutely. All right. Well, then a couple of

01:31:10.829 --> 01:31:12.430
quick areas before we go to some closing questions.

01:31:13.050 --> 01:31:17.529
Firstly, talk to me about... uh the aging first

01:31:17.529 --> 01:31:20.270
responder the aging tactical athlete as i mentioned

01:31:20.270 --> 01:31:22.750
before doesn't matter how old you are if you're

01:31:22.750 --> 01:31:24.729
on the ground doing the job you still need to

01:31:24.729 --> 01:31:27.069
be able to do you know what is required of you

01:31:27.069 --> 01:31:29.250
should you be a triathlete or a world champion

01:31:29.250 --> 01:31:31.909
power leader a power lifter of course not but

01:31:31.909 --> 01:31:34.689
still be able to do the job but as i also know

01:31:34.689 --> 01:31:37.550
sitting here at 51 years old you do get a little

01:31:37.550 --> 01:31:40.470
slower. Those injuries do add up. So what are

01:31:40.470 --> 01:31:42.609
you doing in your programming to try and foster

01:31:42.609 --> 01:31:45.449
resilience in the older firefighters in your

01:31:45.449 --> 01:31:48.970
department? Yeah. So I think the biggest thing

01:31:48.970 --> 01:31:52.010
is like, we want our guys to move. And that's

01:31:52.010 --> 01:31:53.250
what I kind of get with them, right? And I'm

01:31:53.250 --> 01:31:55.250
like, find what you like to do, right? Like,

01:31:55.289 --> 01:31:58.069
yeah, we'll throw in some strength, like suggest

01:31:58.069 --> 01:31:59.729
some strength training, right? Because you still

01:31:59.729 --> 01:32:01.609
need it. But more importantly, I'd rather you

01:32:01.609 --> 01:32:03.850
just not come to work and just sit there all

01:32:03.850 --> 01:32:06.800
day. right get up walk on the treadmill do something

01:32:06.800 --> 01:32:09.579
like you know is walking on the treadmill the

01:32:09.579 --> 01:32:12.479
best thing no but it beats sitting on the couch

01:32:12.479 --> 01:32:17.220
watching tv for 24 hours right so we like to

01:32:17.220 --> 01:32:19.859
get have our guys get up and get moving um we've

01:32:19.859 --> 01:32:22.899
tried um some different health classes as well

01:32:22.899 --> 01:32:27.000
to get people in um i think sometimes not for

01:32:27.000 --> 01:32:30.130
excuses but i think with our department how spread

01:32:30.130 --> 01:32:32.189
out it is throughout the county. Sometimes it's

01:32:32.189 --> 01:32:33.829
tough to get people to one central location.

01:32:34.090 --> 01:32:37.550
That's why team building works so well. But yeah,

01:32:37.630 --> 01:32:41.310
it's working mobility, right? Getting these guys

01:32:41.310 --> 01:32:44.350
moving and then getting them some strength training

01:32:44.350 --> 01:32:46.930
as well. Much like you spoke about yourself,

01:32:47.090 --> 01:32:48.489
a lot of these guys are beat up. Lower backs

01:32:48.489 --> 01:32:51.470
hurt, right? So they don't want to be lifting

01:32:51.470 --> 01:32:55.020
heavy loads. they even like we talked about turnout

01:32:55.020 --> 01:32:57.899
gear like they like to limit unfortunately how

01:32:57.899 --> 01:32:59.560
much they wear their turnout gear but we got

01:32:59.560 --> 01:33:01.939
we got to keep them moving right and i what i

01:33:01.939 --> 01:33:03.760
found the best approach is find out what bothers

01:33:03.760 --> 01:33:06.180
them right and how can we alleviate those aches

01:33:06.180 --> 01:33:07.739
and pains if we can alleviate those aches and

01:33:07.739 --> 01:33:10.399
pains then they start moving better right and

01:33:10.399 --> 01:33:12.140
then they want to try more things and new things

01:33:12.140 --> 01:33:15.140
so i that's kind of how i approach the the aging

01:33:15.140 --> 01:33:18.439
firefighter um but i also think it's most importantly

01:33:18.439 --> 01:33:21.689
it's to meet them halfway, right? I'm not going

01:33:21.689 --> 01:33:23.050
to go and be pushing on them because they're

01:33:23.050 --> 01:33:25.250
going to eject out of me, right? I want them

01:33:25.250 --> 01:33:28.449
to like, hey, remember, we're here to help. And

01:33:28.449 --> 01:33:30.189
then they're like, hey, I have this thing in

01:33:30.189 --> 01:33:32.510
my back and my back's bothering me. All right,

01:33:32.529 --> 01:33:34.369
well, let's try these things right now, right?

01:33:34.470 --> 01:33:35.890
These stretches, whatever. Well, how's that feel?

01:33:35.970 --> 01:33:38.710
Yeah, it feels better. Okay, well, let's keep

01:33:38.710 --> 01:33:41.029
doing those, right? And then as you start feeling

01:33:41.029 --> 01:33:42.670
a little better, we'll add more and more. And

01:33:42.670 --> 01:33:45.649
that's kind of that trajectory of getting them

01:33:45.649 --> 01:33:47.710
comfortable with you and trusting you and getting

01:33:47.710 --> 01:33:51.149
them back moving again. What I found on my personal

01:33:51.149 --> 01:33:54.010
journey, I'm not looking to lift more than I

01:33:54.010 --> 01:33:56.770
could 10 years ago, whatever it was, even though

01:33:56.770 --> 01:33:59.170
ironically in some areas I do now just because

01:33:59.170 --> 01:34:02.810
of efficiency and the training I've done, but

01:34:02.810 --> 01:34:05.789
it's less about adding more and more about addressing

01:34:05.789 --> 01:34:09.090
imbalances now. Because if I'm hinging properly

01:34:09.090 --> 01:34:12.770
and I'm able to do a deep squat and engage all

01:34:12.770 --> 01:34:14.569
the muscles that you should be using for a squat,

01:34:14.750 --> 01:34:19.130
I can lift the same or more just simply by...

01:34:19.369 --> 01:34:21.029
addressing the things that are broken adjusting

01:34:21.029 --> 01:34:22.649
the things that are tight and i'm not there yet

01:34:22.649 --> 01:34:25.130
by any means so this is what i'm finding as i

01:34:25.130 --> 01:34:28.510
progress into like 40s especially 50s now is

01:34:28.510 --> 01:34:31.130
you know shoulders and hips and ankles and knees

01:34:31.130 --> 01:34:34.689
and you know neck all those things if i'm tuning

01:34:34.689 --> 01:34:37.670
them up i've already done you know decades of

01:34:37.670 --> 01:34:39.829
strength conditioning that's still there in the

01:34:39.829 --> 01:34:42.689
bank it's just now about helping my body move

01:34:42.689 --> 01:34:44.729
without pain because you know anyone that's had

01:34:44.729 --> 01:34:47.609
a rock in their shoe it's so distracting it doesn't

01:34:47.609 --> 01:34:49.479
want you know you just don't want to walk It's

01:34:49.479 --> 01:34:51.199
the same thing. If you can take the pain away,

01:34:51.260 --> 01:34:54.039
all of a sudden that negative element of the

01:34:54.039 --> 01:34:56.979
workout starts to go away. Now the red line workout

01:34:56.979 --> 01:35:00.060
is still going to suck, but enjoying moving again,

01:35:00.180 --> 01:35:01.840
just like we talked about with kids years ago,

01:35:01.979 --> 01:35:04.720
that's what we've got to refine. But if it's

01:35:04.720 --> 01:35:07.300
painful, then you move less and you get tighter

01:35:07.300 --> 01:35:10.640
and it's just this vicious circle until you become

01:35:10.640 --> 01:35:12.779
that couch potato that has a heart attack in

01:35:12.779 --> 01:35:18.920
the middle of a fire ground. 100%. Yeah. I wish

01:35:18.920 --> 01:35:22.000
we could get everyone in their later years of

01:35:22.000 --> 01:35:24.579
the fire service to have that mentality and go

01:35:24.579 --> 01:35:26.539
forward. Unfortunately, a lot of times I hear,

01:35:26.680 --> 01:35:29.319
I've been doing it my whole career. I haven't

01:35:29.319 --> 01:35:31.800
ever worked out. One thing I hear in my department

01:35:31.800 --> 01:35:35.739
is, you can't strain fat. I'm just like, all

01:35:35.739 --> 01:35:39.420
right. I don't necessarily have a comeback for

01:35:39.420 --> 01:35:41.920
that one yet, but I'm like, what are we talking

01:35:41.920 --> 01:35:45.090
about here? yeah but if you're fat the probability

01:35:45.090 --> 01:35:47.569
of you dying at a younger age normally goes up

01:35:47.569 --> 01:35:50.069
so i'm like you know i'm like you want to just

01:35:50.069 --> 01:35:52.949
retire and then that's it like i don't know if

01:35:52.949 --> 01:35:55.050
i when i retire i want to go live a long prosperous

01:35:55.050 --> 01:35:57.789
life as much as i possibly can so maybe it's

01:35:57.789 --> 01:36:00.970
better off to stay moving if an ocean lifeguard

01:36:00.970 --> 01:36:03.449
doggy paddles towards your drowning child they're

01:36:03.449 --> 01:36:05.350
still going to get there they're still swimming

01:36:05.350 --> 01:36:10.470
but is it the right way No doubt. Yeah, I mean,

01:36:10.510 --> 01:36:15.310
it's a crazy thought. So, but no, I, you know,

01:36:15.329 --> 01:36:18.590
I'm lucky. I brag on the department I work for.

01:36:18.850 --> 01:36:23.029
I'm lucky. We are young, and we have a very good

01:36:23.029 --> 01:36:24.970
culture of health and wellness and fitness, right?

01:36:25.189 --> 01:36:28.909
So I would say our majority of those individuals

01:36:28.909 --> 01:36:33.850
is relatively small, right? So a lot of my guys

01:36:33.850 --> 01:36:37.220
are in in my ear on my email asking me for new

01:36:37.220 --> 01:36:40.020
equipment bigger weight like you name it right

01:36:40.020 --> 01:36:41.880
hey can we get this new piece of equipment i'm

01:36:41.880 --> 01:36:44.420
like no unfortunately we're a fire service not

01:36:44.420 --> 01:36:48.840
not a gym right so so but i like i said i'm lucky

01:36:48.840 --> 01:36:51.000
in my situation when it comes to stuff like that

01:36:51.000 --> 01:36:53.779
brilliant that's good to hear all right well

01:36:53.779 --> 01:36:55.260
the very last question before we go to closing

01:36:55.260 --> 01:36:58.760
questions talk to me about physical therapy and

01:36:58.760 --> 01:37:01.439
bringing back people back to work. Because as

01:37:01.439 --> 01:37:03.579
you mentioned, like when I live now in Ocala,

01:37:03.640 --> 01:37:06.500
it's Florida, a lot of retirees. Every time I've

01:37:06.500 --> 01:37:10.359
been to PT after a surgery or after a back injury,

01:37:10.460 --> 01:37:12.000
which I didn't have surgery, which was amazing.

01:37:13.100 --> 01:37:16.119
You know, I'm alongside pensioners who have had,

01:37:16.140 --> 01:37:18.239
you know, hip replacements and things like that.

01:37:18.359 --> 01:37:21.260
And so they're, you know, fit for duty, if you

01:37:21.260 --> 01:37:24.239
like, fit for the retirement home is simply,

01:37:24.279 --> 01:37:26.659
can they stand up from the toilet? Mine is 100

01:37:26.659 --> 01:37:30.840
pounds of gear, 30 floors up. So, you know, they

01:37:30.840 --> 01:37:32.760
are great, great facilities. And the one I went

01:37:32.760 --> 01:37:35.079
to mainly that was super humble and they would

01:37:35.079 --> 01:37:37.920
allow me to kind of throw things into the mix.

01:37:37.979 --> 01:37:40.279
So we got to that point where, OK, now I can,

01:37:40.399 --> 01:37:42.579
you know, first first call when I walk through

01:37:42.579 --> 01:37:45.060
the station door on my first day back. God forbid

01:37:45.060 --> 01:37:48.420
it's that one. We're ready for that. So talk

01:37:48.420 --> 01:37:51.079
to me about this background as far as the physical

01:37:51.079 --> 01:37:55.479
therapy side and how you're able to foster that.

01:37:55.840 --> 01:37:59.020
that performance level from the person before

01:37:59.020 --> 01:38:01.039
they're signed off and walk back through the

01:38:01.039 --> 01:38:04.800
station door yeah uh you know i'm lucky obviously

01:38:04.800 --> 01:38:07.199
i stated my wife's a physical therapist and a

01:38:07.199 --> 01:38:09.760
company i work for um mainly doing bariatric

01:38:09.760 --> 01:38:12.199
surgeries like that was based primarily out of

01:38:12.199 --> 01:38:17.119
multiple uh physical therapies um places um so

01:38:17.600 --> 01:38:20.359
in in the area here that i work like i know a

01:38:20.359 --> 01:38:21.920
lot of physical therapists so normally when i

01:38:21.920 --> 01:38:23.880
get paperwork from them i we can kind of ask

01:38:23.880 --> 01:38:26.260
questions and they're really open to letting

01:38:26.260 --> 01:38:29.579
us to really kind of push the issues long if

01:38:29.579 --> 01:38:31.220
it's coming off surgery just have staying long

01:38:31.220 --> 01:38:34.560
uh along their protocols but they they know they're

01:38:34.560 --> 01:38:37.539
like hey what is this that they're talking about

01:38:37.539 --> 01:38:41.659
like like pairing gear like like how much is

01:38:41.659 --> 01:38:43.819
that and i'll explain it to them right hey this

01:38:43.819 --> 01:38:45.619
is this is what it takes you know this is what

01:38:45.619 --> 01:38:47.439
they'll be doing and stuff like that and like

01:38:47.439 --> 01:38:52.140
yeah uh okay we're gonna do we're gonna work

01:38:52.140 --> 01:38:53.420
with them for two more weeks then we're gonna

01:38:53.420 --> 01:38:55.859
release them because at that point they're good

01:38:55.859 --> 01:38:58.579
to go for us but that's all we can do we're gonna

01:38:58.579 --> 01:39:01.140
give them to you to kind of finish it off so

01:39:01.140 --> 01:39:03.439
we're also our department's really good in the

01:39:03.439 --> 01:39:06.060
fact that let's say you were released from pt

01:39:06.060 --> 01:39:09.500
right and you were mentally felt like you weren't

01:39:09.500 --> 01:39:12.020
ready to go back to duty. You could tell our

01:39:12.020 --> 01:39:15.539
safety chief, right, that, hey, I'm not comfortable.

01:39:15.739 --> 01:39:19.800
I don't think I'm where I should be. Can I be

01:39:19.800 --> 01:39:22.880
given a little bit of a time frame to work with

01:39:22.880 --> 01:39:25.399
Mike and Aaron and kind of get back? And normally

01:39:25.399 --> 01:39:26.899
they'll give us two to three weeks to kind of

01:39:26.899 --> 01:39:28.819
really start. And not that it gives you enough

01:39:28.819 --> 01:39:31.279
time for physical adaptation, but we can mentally

01:39:31.279 --> 01:39:33.140
push you a little bit more, right, and see how

01:39:33.140 --> 01:39:36.119
you are day in and day out, right, and get you.

01:39:36.300 --> 01:39:38.439
So we'll start in a weight room, right? give

01:39:38.439 --> 01:39:40.140
you some weight on the load then we'll get closer

01:39:40.140 --> 01:39:41.380
and closer and then we're like all right let's

01:39:41.380 --> 01:39:43.220
start putting on some turnout gear right and

01:39:43.220 --> 01:39:45.880
we'll go out back um to the burn building or

01:39:45.880 --> 01:39:47.560
or one of the props and we'll have you do some

01:39:47.560 --> 01:39:50.720
things how do you feel after that right i feel

01:39:50.720 --> 01:39:52.520
all right well my back's tight or whatever all

01:39:52.520 --> 01:39:54.479
right well let's tomorrow let's see if you can

01:39:54.479 --> 01:39:56.340
come back in tomorrow and do it because the goal

01:39:56.340 --> 01:39:59.140
here is that whatever we do today it's not gonna

01:39:59.140 --> 01:40:00.739
be too crazy i want you to be able to do it tomorrow

01:40:00.739 --> 01:40:03.859
so the goal is to build upon that now the lucky

01:40:03.859 --> 01:40:07.109
thing for me is if we're not to that stage yet

01:40:07.109 --> 01:40:08.930
and the PT is not comfortable and they're like,

01:40:08.989 --> 01:40:10.649
Hey, here's the list of things that you can do.

01:40:11.010 --> 01:40:12.930
Right. And if they, they put something on my

01:40:12.930 --> 01:40:15.850
shirt, I just like text my wife or someone. And

01:40:15.850 --> 01:40:17.989
she's like, yeah, like this is what the normal

01:40:17.989 --> 01:40:20.069
protocol is for this, or this is what you want

01:40:20.069 --> 01:40:22.130
to look for. This is like the movement dysfunction

01:40:22.130 --> 01:40:24.569
that tends to come with something like that.

01:40:24.829 --> 01:40:27.630
So this is what we should do. So it really helps

01:40:27.630 --> 01:40:31.550
us on our end to kind of have. those types of

01:40:31.550 --> 01:40:33.569
people that we can go to now there's some departments

01:40:33.569 --> 01:40:36.029
in the u .s to have pts and pas and whatever

01:40:36.029 --> 01:40:38.109
and they're they're ahead of the game and it

01:40:38.109 --> 01:40:40.649
creates that bridge program right to where they

01:40:40.649 --> 01:40:43.109
can go from one point to another to the other

01:40:43.109 --> 01:40:46.770
but we're we're not that but we're we're a poor

01:40:46.770 --> 01:40:49.369
man's version of that i like to say right so

01:40:49.369 --> 01:40:52.369
i think that's the big thing is it's like if

01:40:52.369 --> 01:40:55.250
you if you can create that what your risk management

01:40:55.250 --> 01:40:58.659
and your safety officers right that you can set

01:40:58.659 --> 01:41:01.359
up a program like this and then you can create

01:41:01.359 --> 01:41:05.699
enough um friendship between local pt clinics

01:41:05.699 --> 01:41:07.460
and whatever not and where they can call and

01:41:07.460 --> 01:41:09.720
they trust you right and trust is not hurting

01:41:09.720 --> 01:41:12.779
their patients right so if if you do it enough

01:41:12.779 --> 01:41:14.880
right they're going to start have a better understanding

01:41:14.880 --> 01:41:17.000
what your capabilities are and they're going

01:41:17.000 --> 01:41:19.500
to give you a little bit more leeway to hey push

01:41:19.500 --> 01:41:21.439
them here because we don't have the necessary

01:41:21.439 --> 01:41:25.319
things to do our heaviest weights here are 20

01:41:25.319 --> 01:41:29.319
pound pink dumbbells right most firefighters

01:41:29.319 --> 01:41:31.500
would say they wish everything in the fire service

01:41:31.500 --> 01:41:35.060
was only 20 pounds but unfortunately like you're

01:41:35.060 --> 01:41:37.659
driving a pair of tools right it's not 20 pounds

01:41:37.659 --> 01:41:40.560
so and i think that's one thing that kind of

01:41:40.560 --> 01:41:44.560
uh pts don't really understand like they see

01:41:44.560 --> 01:41:46.359
the firefighter right but they don't see them

01:41:46.359 --> 01:41:48.319
with the high -rise pack they don't see them

01:41:48.319 --> 01:41:50.840
with the expectation tools like you know they

01:41:50.840 --> 01:41:52.720
don't understand that world that you live in

01:41:52.720 --> 01:41:54.520
they don't understand that the lift assist let's

01:41:54.520 --> 01:41:56.199
even just say go that far right they don't understand

01:41:56.199 --> 01:41:58.890
like Hey, there's me and three other people are

01:41:58.890 --> 01:42:01.189
going to pick up this 500 pound person, right?

01:42:01.449 --> 01:42:03.850
They don't look at it like that. So it's on our

01:42:03.850 --> 01:42:07.890
job where we are to get you to, once they start

01:42:07.890 --> 01:42:10.010
to release you, like, okay, let's ramp this up

01:42:10.010 --> 01:42:12.430
and make sure that you're able to do this without

01:42:12.430 --> 01:42:14.550
getting injured and being a repeat offender,

01:42:14.609 --> 01:42:17.449
not a true offender, but a repeat person on light

01:42:17.449 --> 01:42:21.909
duty. I had a, I think it was a PT on a while

01:42:21.909 --> 01:42:24.659
ago now. And they were saying that when an injury

01:42:24.659 --> 01:42:28.020
feels like it's healed, it's actually only about

01:42:28.020 --> 01:42:30.760
80%. And that's why you get a lot of re -injuries.

01:42:30.920 --> 01:42:34.000
And I see pressure from departments to get their

01:42:34.000 --> 01:42:36.060
people back fast. And then there's also this

01:42:36.060 --> 01:42:40.279
kind of almost like faux heroism where it's a

01:42:40.279 --> 01:42:42.720
badge of honor that you came back before the

01:42:42.720 --> 01:42:45.079
timeline that your doctor gave you. And I think

01:42:45.079 --> 01:42:46.699
this is something for people to understand as

01:42:46.699 --> 01:42:50.819
well. Getting to the point where it doesn't hurt

01:42:50.819 --> 01:42:52.500
anymore, where you feel like you're moving well

01:42:52.500 --> 01:42:55.300
and then allowing yourself a buffer because,

01:42:55.399 --> 01:42:57.460
you know, you need to really kind of round off

01:42:57.460 --> 01:43:00.020
that healing before you go back. And again, sleep

01:43:00.020 --> 01:43:02.420
deprived, get some, you know, bomb burner and

01:43:02.420 --> 01:43:04.859
a dragon hose and you tweak or pull whatever

01:43:04.859 --> 01:43:07.600
it is and you go down. Yeah, you made a good

01:43:07.600 --> 01:43:09.319
point about the injury. Like, you feel better.

01:43:09.420 --> 01:43:11.720
Like, this is the best thing I ever learned from

01:43:11.720 --> 01:43:15.039
PTs. Like, they would truly explain to me, like,

01:43:15.079 --> 01:43:17.079
what a graft was like or anything like that.

01:43:17.140 --> 01:43:18.640
And they'd be like, yeah, it's... you know they

01:43:18.640 --> 01:43:20.819
you think it's healed but really it's still gelatinous

01:43:20.819 --> 01:43:22.920
in there so this is why we can't do this so it's

01:43:22.920 --> 01:43:25.020
really helped us now when we come to the fire

01:43:25.020 --> 01:43:26.699
service to have a better understanding of like

01:43:26.699 --> 01:43:28.760
something like oh no no i feel fine i can do

01:43:28.760 --> 01:43:30.460
this i'm like yeah well there's a reason why

01:43:30.460 --> 01:43:32.920
you're not doing that yet in pt and this is this

01:43:32.920 --> 01:43:36.039
is this is why versus yeah yeah there's some

01:43:36.039 --> 01:43:37.800
real alpha dogs in the fire service there and

01:43:37.800 --> 01:43:40.539
we go getters right and like those are the ones

01:43:40.539 --> 01:43:42.399
that you sometimes got to watch out for especially

01:43:42.399 --> 01:43:44.239
if they get hurt like oh no my shoulder feels

01:43:44.239 --> 01:43:46.779
fine i can do this i'm like yeah but you're not

01:43:46.779 --> 01:43:51.010
supposed to be doing that Yeah, absolutely. All

01:43:51.010 --> 01:43:52.630
right. Well, I want to go to some closing questions.

01:43:52.949 --> 01:43:55.529
The first one I love to ask, is there a book

01:43:55.529 --> 01:43:57.970
or other books that you love to recommend? It

01:43:57.970 --> 01:44:00.430
can be related to our discussion today or completely

01:44:00.430 --> 01:44:03.430
unrelated. Probably most people have read this

01:44:03.430 --> 01:44:06.149
one, but I love the book Culture Field. I thought

01:44:06.149 --> 01:44:09.529
it was just a great one. You get to get a better

01:44:09.529 --> 01:44:11.069
understanding of how different cultures work.

01:44:11.310 --> 01:44:13.989
I think that's the fire service in general is

01:44:13.989 --> 01:44:16.770
that you're taking and you've probably experienced

01:44:16.770 --> 01:44:19.479
it firsthand. One station is totally different

01:44:19.479 --> 01:44:22.000
to another, to another, to another. There's an

01:44:22.000 --> 01:44:24.000
overall culture of the fire service, but there's

01:44:24.000 --> 01:44:25.800
a bunch of mini cultures in there. And you better

01:44:25.800 --> 01:44:27.619
have a good understanding of how each one of

01:44:27.619 --> 01:44:30.140
those mini cultures work. And there's just, they

01:44:30.140 --> 01:44:32.619
jokingly A shift to B shift to C shift, you know,

01:44:32.659 --> 01:44:35.420
different culture there. So that's probably the

01:44:35.420 --> 01:44:39.640
book that I think most relates to the fire service

01:44:39.640 --> 01:44:41.199
because you hear so many different cultures and

01:44:41.199 --> 01:44:44.880
how people took aspects of it and building stuff

01:44:44.880 --> 01:44:49.090
off of it. Brilliant. What about films and documentaries?

01:44:50.390 --> 01:44:54.810
Oh, I'm a big doc guy. Oh, man, you would ask

01:44:54.810 --> 01:45:02.869
me that one. Oh, I like Seven Peaks. He goes

01:45:02.869 --> 01:45:05.130
and he does all the seven peaks. It's just the

01:45:05.130 --> 01:45:08.449
reason on why he does it and just how he does

01:45:08.449 --> 01:45:11.170
it. I think that's amazing. Like, you know, you're

01:45:11.170 --> 01:45:14.109
talking small groups of individuals accomplishing

01:45:14.109 --> 01:45:16.340
big things. which is what the fire service is,

01:45:16.420 --> 01:45:17.920
if we're talking about fire service. We're talking

01:45:17.920 --> 01:45:20.659
about guys, an engine truck of three or four

01:45:20.659 --> 01:45:22.159
people, and they're going in there and they're

01:45:22.159 --> 01:45:26.199
saving lives, right? In an ideal environment.

01:45:26.619 --> 01:45:29.119
So I think it kind of resonates that way with

01:45:29.119 --> 01:45:32.060
it, right? Like small groups of individuals accomplishing

01:45:32.060 --> 01:45:35.939
big things. Was that Nim's Die, that one? Yeah,

01:45:36.100 --> 01:45:38.140
I think it was 14 Peaks. Have I got that right?

01:45:38.340 --> 01:45:41.220
Yeah, I apologize. No, it's just for people if

01:45:41.220 --> 01:45:42.640
they're going to Google it. I think it was 14.

01:45:43.960 --> 01:45:45.220
Brilliant. All right. Well, speaking of amazing

01:45:45.220 --> 01:45:47.699
people, which I had Nimza on the show, by the

01:45:47.699 --> 01:45:50.800
way, he was phenomenal. Lucky you. Yeah, exactly.

01:45:51.020 --> 01:45:53.739
So speaking of that, is there a person that you'd

01:45:53.739 --> 01:45:56.000
recommend to come on this podcast as a guest,

01:45:56.239 --> 01:45:59.239
speak to the first responders, military and associated

01:45:59.239 --> 01:46:02.079
professions of the world? Yeah, I mentioned him

01:46:02.079 --> 01:46:04.279
earlier, just because I think it would get a

01:46:04.279 --> 01:46:06.220
better insight into the research side of things.

01:46:06.279 --> 01:46:09.000
As someone like Eric Ryan, Dr. Eric Ryan out

01:46:09.000 --> 01:46:12.079
of North Carolina in his InMotion lab, I think

01:46:12.079 --> 01:46:14.609
you get a... understanding of where NIOS and

01:46:14.609 --> 01:46:18.489
the research is trying to go and why it's important

01:46:18.489 --> 01:46:20.909
to get your department involved in research,

01:46:21.149 --> 01:46:24.789
how to go about doing that. My experience with

01:46:24.789 --> 01:46:28.649
doing that was at an NSCA conference and Dr.

01:46:28.789 --> 01:46:30.789
Ryan's wife was there because one of her PhD

01:46:30.789 --> 01:46:33.609
students was presenting and I went up and asked

01:46:33.609 --> 01:46:36.109
her a question about female firefighters and

01:46:36.109 --> 01:46:39.590
menstrual cycles and whatnot. um and she's like

01:46:39.590 --> 01:46:41.109
oh well you i think you'd be really interested

01:46:41.109 --> 01:46:44.069
in talking to my husband so i i think that'd

01:46:44.069 --> 01:46:46.869
be good i i think this would give people uh around

01:46:46.869 --> 01:46:48.609
the country around the world maybe opportunities

01:46:48.609 --> 01:46:51.350
to understand how to get involved in research

01:46:51.350 --> 01:46:53.810
what's the benefits of getting involved in research

01:46:53.810 --> 01:46:57.229
um yeah so just so it's not me trying to get

01:46:57.229 --> 01:47:00.250
the fire service involved research well i appreciate

01:47:00.250 --> 01:47:02.880
it thank you All right, well, the next question,

01:47:02.960 --> 01:47:05.300
is there a person that, oh, my God, I just went

01:47:05.300 --> 01:47:07.680
on autopilot then. I haven't done a thousand.

01:47:07.859 --> 01:47:11.020
Let me write that down. Oh, my goodness. 145.

01:47:12.300 --> 01:47:14.720
All right, let me try that again. Well, the last

01:47:14.720 --> 01:47:16.359
question before we make sure everyone knows where

01:47:16.359 --> 01:47:22.560
to find you, what do you do to decompress? Obviously,

01:47:22.560 --> 01:47:29.039
I like exercise and whatnot, but probably mountain

01:47:29.039 --> 01:47:32.220
biking is my big thing. the decompress I like

01:47:32.220 --> 01:47:33.680
being in nature I grew up in the middle of the

01:47:33.680 --> 01:47:37.319
woods I love hiking I love uh camping stuff like

01:47:37.319 --> 01:47:40.079
that that's that's kind of my uh go -to uh my

01:47:40.079 --> 01:47:41.720
wife jokes she's like she don't understand how

01:47:41.720 --> 01:47:43.460
I can work with people all the time and then

01:47:43.460 --> 01:47:45.800
want to be like this solo bird out of out in

01:47:45.800 --> 01:47:48.180
nature I'm like I don't know just I think it

01:47:48.180 --> 01:47:50.500
helps me in my day job then so yeah that's kind

01:47:50.500 --> 01:47:53.079
of my my big thing I'm just getting out and um

01:47:53.079 --> 01:47:55.859
and doing stuff out and out in nature whatever

01:47:55.859 --> 01:47:59.170
not so that's my big decompressor Yeah, I think

01:47:59.170 --> 01:48:00.989
my answer is because I work with people all the

01:48:00.989 --> 01:48:02.529
time. That's why I want to go to the woods now.

01:48:03.270 --> 01:48:07.170
Right? No doubt. All right. Well, then for people

01:48:07.170 --> 01:48:09.909
listening, if they want to learn more about you,

01:48:10.029 --> 01:48:11.949
find you on social media, reach out, where are

01:48:11.949 --> 01:48:15.909
the best places online? Yeah. So we have our

01:48:15.909 --> 01:48:20.050
own social media, First Do Wellness. And if you

01:48:20.050 --> 01:48:22.250
just want to find me personally, my personal

01:48:22.250 --> 01:48:28.430
Instagram is amekiss. So it's AMCKIS at 1983.

01:48:29.149 --> 01:48:32.449
That's my personal one. And then our other ones

01:48:32.449 --> 01:48:35.569
first do wellness. So you'll see a lot. We let

01:48:35.569 --> 01:48:37.909
our interns do a lot of posting on different

01:48:37.909 --> 01:48:40.050
health aspects, things that we do in our fire

01:48:40.050 --> 01:48:43.750
academy, things that we might do at EMS. You

01:48:43.750 --> 01:48:46.170
know, we're just here to try to educate people

01:48:46.170 --> 01:48:48.909
as much as possible. Are we, you know, we're

01:48:48.909 --> 01:48:51.590
not saying we're the gurus of anything, but we

01:48:51.590 --> 01:48:53.529
just want to spread the. spread the knowledge

01:48:53.529 --> 01:48:57.029
to first responders primarily. You know, I think

01:48:57.029 --> 01:48:58.729
they're an underserved community like we've talked

01:48:58.729 --> 01:49:02.930
about. You know, I think just recently, you know,

01:49:02.930 --> 01:49:05.189
they've gotten more into health and wellness

01:49:05.189 --> 01:49:08.390
and hiring people like myself and whatnot. But

01:49:08.390 --> 01:49:11.369
yeah, like we've tried to start intern programs

01:49:11.369 --> 01:49:13.649
to get them out to other departments. I just

01:49:13.649 --> 01:49:15.289
think it's a good thing. Like these guys give

01:49:15.289 --> 01:49:17.470
their lives to the community, right? Literally

01:49:17.470 --> 01:49:20.390
their lives, both physically and mentally to

01:49:20.390 --> 01:49:23.100
the community. And then at the end of the day,

01:49:23.239 --> 01:49:25.979
what do they got? Like we talked about earlier,

01:49:26.100 --> 01:49:28.520
don't have anything, right? So I think this is

01:49:28.520 --> 01:49:31.560
a way for us as a community, as a fitness community

01:49:31.560 --> 01:49:33.479
and whatnot, to give back to them for everything

01:49:33.479 --> 01:49:36.859
that they're doing for us. Like I said, please

01:49:36.859 --> 01:49:39.539
fire EMS. It could go into the tactile setting,

01:49:39.619 --> 01:49:41.819
but either way, it's a way for all of us to get

01:49:41.819 --> 01:49:44.819
back. And this stuff isn't just necessarily for...

01:49:45.149 --> 01:49:47.750
um the first responder like there's information

01:49:47.750 --> 01:49:49.970
on there that a family member could look at and

01:49:49.970 --> 01:49:52.350
get and learn and go from because they're in

01:49:52.350 --> 01:49:55.210
the trenches too right the wife the daughter

01:49:55.210 --> 01:49:58.369
the son everyone like you know they're the ones

01:49:58.369 --> 01:50:00.109
that have to be away from the family as well

01:50:00.109 --> 01:50:01.670
so it's tough