WEBVTT

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This episode is brought to you by Thorne and

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go to episode 323 of the Behind the Shield podcast

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with Joel Totoro and Wes Barnett. Welcome to

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the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my

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name is James Geering, and this week it is my

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absolute honor to welcome on the show American

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doctor of radiology, Aziz Rahman. Now, as you

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will hear, Aziz just returned from a two -week

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aid trip to Gaza. And this is yet one of the

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many voices I've had from the men who have actually

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been boots on the ground during this conflict.

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So we discuss a host of topics from his own journey

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into medicine, AI and radiology, what took him

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to Palestine, the immense workload on health

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care providers in Gaza, the lack of equipment,

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the deliberate starvation. murder at the aid

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sites, and so much more. Now, before we get to

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this incredibly important and powerful conversation,

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as I say every week, please just take a moment,

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go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe

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to the show. Leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single five -star rating truly does elevate

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this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find. And this is a free library of

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well over 1 ,100 episodes now. So all I ask in

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return is that you help share these incredible

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men and women's stories so I can get them to

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every single person on planet Earth who needs

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to hear them. So with that being said... I introduce

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to you Dr. Aziz Rahman. Enjoy. Well, Aziz, I

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want to start by saying two things. Firstly,

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thank you to our mutual friend, Thayer, for making

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this introduction. And secondly, I want to welcome

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you onto the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Well, thank you, James, for having me on your

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show. Dr. Ahmed actually introduced us last week,

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I believe. So the fact that you put this together

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so quickly, I really appreciate that. Yeah, well,

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I mean, I think it needs to. And this is what

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we're going to take a deep dive into. So where

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on planet Earth are we finding you this evening?

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I'm in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I've been here for

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six years, but born and raised in Boston, Massachusetts,

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actually Worcester, which most people don't know

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how to pronounce. And they say Worcester or Worchester,

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like Worchester Cyrus. Yes, which if you're English

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is hilarious, just so you know that. Yeah, I

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bet you got that background. So how would you

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have said it if you didn't know it's Worcester?

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Well, yeah, Worcester is that we have Worcester

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in England. So, yeah, it would have been said

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the correct way, I would argue. That's correct.

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All right. Well, then let's start at the very

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beginning then. So tell me where you were born

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and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic,

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what your parents did, how many siblings. Yeah,

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so I was born in Massachusetts, one of five siblings.

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So I was the second youngest, two older brothers,

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one older sister, and then one younger sister.

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My mom and dad, you know, typical family. My

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dad was a doctor. My mom was a stay -at -home.

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mom. She was trained as an engineer, but once

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she had kids, it just became too difficult to

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work at the same time. So she basically did a

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lot of our raising. She would teach us pretty

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much everything after school. She would sit down

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with us before school, teach us math and stuff.

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So I credit her a lot for my education, for my

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work ethic and whatnot. So it was not just school

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that she wanted us to be good at, but extracurriculars.

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I was on the football team. I was on the track

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team. So she made sure we were well -rounded

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in that sense. Were they American or were any

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of them immigrants at that point? They were immigrants

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from Hyderabad, India. Oh, okay. All my siblings

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were born in Massachusetts. Okay. So I love,

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you know, again, we are a nation of such diversity,

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you know, and there is so much power in the immigration

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stories. As you were growing up or even conversations

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today. When they reflect back, you know, what

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were the beautiful things about Indian culture

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they left? And then what was some of the things

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that they are glad that they came to the U .S.

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because of? Yeah, that's a great question. So,

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you know, America has always been the land of

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opportunity, right? So my dad did his medical

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training in India. But when he was given the

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opportunity to come to America to do his residency,

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his training. it was an opportunity that he couldn't

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say no to so that's what brought him over here

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and he was obviously married to my mom at that

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time so she came over as well um you know her

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my my my dad was the oldest of his siblings so

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he was kind of the vanguard in that regard but

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my mom she already had siblings here that had

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already come over to work for like ibm and some

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of these big software companies at that time

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so um some of the stuff that you know that left

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back behind in india most of the culture, you

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know, the traditional wear clothes, the, you

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know, traditional family unit, which is super

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closely knit. They all kind of live on the same

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street, same village. And that kind of mentality

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where you could just go out, you know, and trust

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that someone's watching your kids, someone's

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going to be making sure that they know what your

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kids are at all times. And it was truly like

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the whole concept of it takes a village to raise

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someone, that kind of concept, I think they left

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behind there. Mainly because they just didn't

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know what society was here, right? So they were

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obviously very paranoid about us. But coming

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here, they had so many new opportunities that

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came up just like any immigration story. It's

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interesting. I had a conversation with an Air

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Force law enforcement veteran yesterday. And

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I always talk about when you're deployed, what

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were some of the beautiful things about the culture,

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aside from the combat, obviously, the humanity.

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And he was saying that multi -generational household

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and the same exact thing, that it took a village

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to raise children. And you hear the struggles

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of a lot of people in the States now. You know,

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mom works, dad works. They can barely afford

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the daycare. And we've strayed away from, you

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know, arguably what was. um the kind of village

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dynamic all over the planet which you know yeah

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if you're a hunter or a gatherer or whatever

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it is then there was a group of people that would

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help take care of the children while the parents

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had to do whatever And now we've got so far from

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that that, you know, even to the point where

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people have made a good point, you know, now

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that you've got two incomes, that way double

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tax being paid, you know, is there a pull from

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that side that's actually making both members

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work? Because it is. It's near impossible now

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for a lot of households to take care of their

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own children. Yeah. No, I'm very cognizant of

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that. I'm very grateful that, you know, my dad

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was able to support. the family with his income.

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Granted, I will say even he had difficulty with

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five kids going to college. I mean, that's very

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hard to afford. I would say almost impossible

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for anyone to afford. So, you know, I completely

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understand that sentiment. And unfortunately,

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it's far too common that even with one of the

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family members wants to stay at home and take

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care of the kids, it's just not feasible sometimes.

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You know, property tax are too expensive, you

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know, just income. is not really rising with

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inflation levels, groceries and everything. Just

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everything has gotten so expensive that it's

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become a challenge for many people. Absolutely.

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Another thing is people ask me, you know, they

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make fun of the British food and I tell them,

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well, you know, one of the most popular things

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in British food is Indian food. Oh, yeah. We,

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you know, so much and it's hard to find good

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Indian food in some parts of America. So that's

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another thing I'm sure that, you know, a lot

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of people miss if they know find themselves away

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from indian culture is simply the amazing cuisine

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that you guys have too yeah i thought you were

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going to say fish and chips but but that's true

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yeah indian food is really big i haven't been

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there but i've heard i definitely want to visit

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and try the local foods there yeah well i've

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said this a lot if you go you know when i was

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young i'd go to heathrow airport and it's all

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cultures you know africans you know south asian

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southeast asian i mean just from all over the

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place and it's just this beautiful tapestry of

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humanity that comes through and some are visiting

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obviously some are on holiday but there's a lot

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of people that that is part of of the uk you

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know and i think that's the upside of colonization

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i mean there's a lot of darkness to it but now

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you know we have this beautiful diversity in

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in britain and that includes obviously cultures

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and cuisine and all the things so know the the

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kind of fake uh projection that the uk is this

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kind of area nation could not be further from

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the truth absolutely absolutely and that's true

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i mean if you if you go to um places in in the

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middle east or or india and pakistan like you'll

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you'll find the population to be so uniform you

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kind of miss you know back home in america or

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canada or uk because truly they're melting pots

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and the fact that you see all the different ethnicities

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backgrounds makes you a better in my opinion

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a better person if you can you know if you're

00:11:07.309 --> 00:11:10.309
not racist but um because you get you get to

00:11:10.309 --> 00:11:13.389
learn so much you get to experience how to deal

00:11:13.389 --> 00:11:17.389
with different people um and and i think that

00:11:17.389 --> 00:11:19.470
just gives you so much more you know emotional

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intelligence and just the ability to to really

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be flexible with people yeah i've said this you

00:11:25.529 --> 00:11:27.929
know when you when you deviate from a shared

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humanity then differences become a threat And

00:11:31.009 --> 00:11:32.669
what should happen is that we should see the

00:11:32.669 --> 00:11:34.490
humanity within each other and then the differences

00:11:34.490 --> 00:11:37.370
become nuances and they're interesting. So, you

00:11:37.370 --> 00:11:39.110
know, the moment that you just put someone in

00:11:39.110 --> 00:11:42.529
a pigeonhole, you miss that experience of actually,

00:11:42.649 --> 00:11:44.889
you know, being interested in their culture.

00:11:46.529 --> 00:11:50.769
Yeah, I like that. What about then career aspirations?

00:11:51.029 --> 00:11:52.649
You mentioned some of the sports that you did.

00:11:52.750 --> 00:11:54.350
What were you dreaming of becoming when you were

00:11:54.350 --> 00:11:57.789
in the high school age? You know, I think we

00:11:57.789 --> 00:12:01.779
all... Had the same, you know, athlete and astronaut,

00:12:01.860 --> 00:12:05.379
you know, growing up. I just wasn't, I played

00:12:05.379 --> 00:12:08.019
on the football team. I wasn't good enough. I

00:12:08.019 --> 00:12:10.000
wasn't good enough at basketball. Just kind of

00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:11.259
made it on the team, but that's it, you know.

00:12:12.279 --> 00:12:14.620
So sports wasn't like something I would actually

00:12:14.620 --> 00:12:18.179
pursue, even though I loved it. I kind of was

00:12:18.179 --> 00:12:23.159
between law, engineering, and medicine. Medicine

00:12:23.159 --> 00:12:25.700
because of my dad. And I have three aunts that

00:12:25.700 --> 00:12:27.960
are doctors. And so growing up, you know, it's

00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:29.159
kind of one of those things like, oh, I don't

00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:32.080
want to be a doctor because my dad's a doctor

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and my aunts are doctors. I want to do something

00:12:33.620 --> 00:12:35.779
different. You know, my engineering because my

00:12:35.779 --> 00:12:39.320
mom was an engineer and then lawyer, I just thought

00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:41.820
would be kind of cool because they're all smart

00:12:41.820 --> 00:12:44.700
and can, you know, have to deal with so many

00:12:44.700 --> 00:12:47.639
different types of things and people. Right.

00:12:47.700 --> 00:12:50.080
They're very people smart. And so I kind of like

00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:53.440
that about the law profession. But as I grew

00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:55.480
up, went through high school, I kind of realized

00:12:55.480 --> 00:12:58.799
what I was good at. And I was good at like sciences.

00:12:58.820 --> 00:13:00.360
I was good at biology. I was good at physiology.

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And that kind of just stuck with me. And then

00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:07.580
my mom, she was really pushing me to medicine,

00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:10.379
to be honest with you, because she's like, it's

00:13:10.379 --> 00:13:14.080
one of those fields where you're helping humanity.

00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:18.279
And, you know, you're. Going to enjoy it regardless.

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And at that time, you know, I was like, my mom

00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:23.360
just taught me what to do. But I took my mom's

00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:25.340
advice and, you know, looking back on it, I'm

00:13:25.340 --> 00:13:28.039
very grateful I did. What was your father's specialty?

00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:34.460
My dad's internal medicine, which is just the

00:13:34.460 --> 00:13:37.840
standard doctor, so to speak, who takes care

00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:39.620
of the patients in the hospital, kind of like

00:13:39.620 --> 00:13:41.840
the quarterback of the hospital. So he works

00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:46.809
at a rehab hospital in Boston. which takes care

00:13:46.809 --> 00:13:48.690
of some of the sickest patients coming out of

00:13:48.690 --> 00:13:50.649
Massachusetts General Hospital, which is one

00:13:50.649 --> 00:13:54.090
of the biggest hospitals in Boston. This is always

00:13:54.090 --> 00:13:57.070
interesting to ask, you know, as we look at the

00:13:57.070 --> 00:14:00.370
health of the nation now and we see the corporate

00:14:00.370 --> 00:14:03.450
side of medicine and, you know, like, for example,

00:14:03.450 --> 00:14:06.549
is a great opportunity to underline this. You

00:14:06.549 --> 00:14:09.029
know, we have this pandemic where the health

00:14:09.029 --> 00:14:11.750
of the nation certainly. there's a great opportunity

00:14:11.750 --> 00:14:13.529
to revisit that and be like, what are we doing

00:14:13.529 --> 00:14:15.990
wrong with 70 % of our country is obese or overweight?

00:14:16.830 --> 00:14:19.769
And so the kind of preventative proactive side

00:14:19.769 --> 00:14:24.330
doesn't seem to be taught in medical school specifically

00:14:24.330 --> 00:14:26.669
by a lot of people I've had on the show. When

00:14:26.669 --> 00:14:29.009
you reflect back now from the training that you

00:14:29.009 --> 00:14:32.610
had, how much training was there on diet, nutrition,

00:14:32.830 --> 00:14:34.750
sleep, some of the pillars of health that we

00:14:34.750 --> 00:14:37.789
know now? Yeah, that's funny that you say that

00:14:37.789 --> 00:14:40.149
because I went to school in Kansas City, Missouri.

00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:42.860
And the school, the medical school I went to,

00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:45.039
University of Missouri, Kansas City, was actually

00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:48.700
what was pumping out a lot of family medicine

00:14:48.700 --> 00:14:52.320
doctors. So they were pretty heavy on primary

00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:57.659
preventive care. And I would say I had quite

00:14:57.659 --> 00:15:00.320
the opposite experience where we were really,

00:15:00.379 --> 00:15:04.080
you know, advised to push our patients for better

00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:06.440
diet, better lifestyle choices. Granted, this

00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:08.480
was like, you know, I graduated medical school

00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:13.649
in 2013. So things definitely have changed over

00:15:13.649 --> 00:15:16.250
the last decade. But yeah, back then we were

00:15:16.250 --> 00:15:19.149
definitely going to rural America, teaching them

00:15:19.149 --> 00:15:24.710
dietary changes, just trying to maintain good

00:15:24.710 --> 00:15:27.210
lifestyles, cessation of smoking, just the basic

00:15:27.210 --> 00:15:31.110
things. So when you go through this training

00:15:31.110 --> 00:15:34.809
period, were there any kind of aha moments once

00:15:34.809 --> 00:15:37.269
you got out into the real world, treating actual

00:15:37.269 --> 00:15:43.179
patients? Yeah, that is, I think every physician

00:15:43.179 --> 00:15:44.940
who graduates medical school has to go through

00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:47.919
that, right? You go to residency, you go to fellowship,

00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:50.779
and then you're always under the protection of

00:15:50.779 --> 00:15:54.600
your attendings, you know, your bosses, the faculty,

00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:57.600
physicians who are kind of hovering over you,

00:15:57.639 --> 00:15:59.080
making sure you're not going to make any mistakes,

00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:01.100
making sure you're making the right decisions.

00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:03.879
And any lawsuit that comes through. They're kind

00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:05.740
of protecting you. The hospital system is protecting

00:16:05.740 --> 00:16:07.799
you. And then the day you graduate, you know,

00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:09.039
and you start taking care of your own patients,

00:16:09.100 --> 00:16:11.340
you've done something a thousand times. And it's

00:16:11.340 --> 00:16:13.580
just like, man, this first time by myself is

00:16:13.580 --> 00:16:15.519
a different experience. You know, you just become

00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:19.120
nervous. You're sweating bullets. And it's truly

00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:22.120
a gargantuan task. And that lasts about six months

00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:25.500
to 12 months before you kind of get back into

00:16:25.500 --> 00:16:29.500
your confidence levels that you need. But, yeah,

00:16:29.580 --> 00:16:32.990
I think the fact that, you know. There's no one

00:16:32.990 --> 00:16:35.309
watching over you at that point. And patients

00:16:35.309 --> 00:16:37.370
are kind of relying on you to the point they

00:16:37.370 --> 00:16:38.789
even ask you, like, how many times have you done

00:16:38.789 --> 00:16:40.669
this before? You're like, how do I answer this

00:16:40.669 --> 00:16:45.590
question? Do I look that nervous to you? What

00:16:45.590 --> 00:16:48.929
about the residency? You know, when it's been

00:16:48.929 --> 00:16:51.250
interesting as I've really taken a deep dive

00:16:51.250 --> 00:16:53.210
into the world of sleep medicine, realizing that

00:16:53.210 --> 00:16:55.330
that's one of the massive underlying issues in

00:16:55.330 --> 00:16:57.929
my community, I've started learning about all

00:16:57.929 --> 00:17:01.440
kinds of things. the backstory of the surgical

00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:03.820
residency that used to be these insane hours

00:17:03.820 --> 00:17:06.619
was this one i think it's william halstead if

00:17:06.619 --> 00:17:09.549
i got the name right and he you know was known

00:17:09.549 --> 00:17:11.809
to be up for hours and hours that days and days

00:17:11.809 --> 00:17:13.910
and so that kind of became the norm and i think

00:17:13.910 --> 00:17:15.529
we're talking about the beginning of last century

00:17:15.529 --> 00:17:19.009
but um turns out that he was a heroin and cocaine

00:17:19.009 --> 00:17:21.230
addict so i'm pretty sure i could i could pull

00:17:21.230 --> 00:17:25.109
some benders too if i was out of my mind so that's

00:17:25.109 --> 00:17:27.769
one way to stay up so the way that we've always

00:17:27.769 --> 00:17:30.170
done it isn't necessarily the right way i mean

00:17:30.170 --> 00:17:32.069
you know the children used to work in factories

00:17:32.069 --> 00:17:34.750
and go up chimneys back in the day How was your

00:17:34.750 --> 00:17:37.069
residency experience? And again, have you seen

00:17:37.069 --> 00:17:41.150
that evolve from the crazy stories of a few decades

00:17:41.150 --> 00:17:44.170
ago? Yeah. So my dad, like I said, my dad was

00:17:44.170 --> 00:17:46.970
a doctor. He was training during the time where

00:17:46.970 --> 00:17:50.369
there was 48, 72 -hour calls. I mean, it's just

00:17:50.369 --> 00:17:52.329
insane. Two to three days in the hospital, not

00:17:52.329 --> 00:17:56.009
seeing your family. Obviously, it takes an emotional

00:17:56.009 --> 00:17:58.369
toll. It takes a mental toll. It takes a physical

00:17:58.369 --> 00:18:00.410
toll sleeping in the hospital. There's no sunlight

00:18:00.410 --> 00:18:04.420
coming in there. And sometimes if you're in the

00:18:04.420 --> 00:18:06.180
radiology department, especially, it's just like

00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:09.839
it's a dungeon, basically. So, you know, when

00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:13.039
I was in residency, there was no strict rules

00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:19.119
about times except for a new 24 -hour rule. But

00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:22.660
not everyone followed that rule. I luckily had

00:18:22.660 --> 00:18:24.640
a good program director that followed the rule

00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:28.059
to the T. And he was actually more of an advocate

00:18:28.059 --> 00:18:31.319
to the residents than anyone in the hospital.

00:18:31.740 --> 00:18:33.660
And it was awesome. He was just protecting us

00:18:33.660 --> 00:18:36.279
in every way, shape, or form. If he had any trouble,

00:18:36.440 --> 00:18:39.920
he would speak up on our behalf. And I can't

00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:42.339
forget him. He's just been such an inspirational

00:18:42.339 --> 00:18:45.460
leader to me. And just the way he led this program

00:18:45.460 --> 00:18:50.000
of almost 50 residents, he treated us like his

00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:53.000
children, just wanted us to succeed, wanted us

00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:55.920
to really work hard and learn the most in the

00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:58.099
four years that we were in residency. So, I mean,

00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:02.680
I had the blessing of saying, I wasn't abused

00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:06.599
in that sense. You know, that said, I do think

00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:12.119
some specialties took advantage of it and, you

00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:14.339
know, really worked the residents to the ground.

00:19:14.740 --> 00:19:17.519
I mean, I think those residents are probably

00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:20.180
better than what's happening now, which I think

00:19:20.180 --> 00:19:23.180
is the opposite extreme where I would argue that

00:19:23.180 --> 00:19:25.640
some residencies are just not giving their residents

00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:28.299
enough hours and just not making it hard enough.

00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:29.779
You know, it's going to the opposite extreme,

00:19:29.819 --> 00:19:32.740
in my opinion. What made you choose radiology

00:19:32.740 --> 00:19:38.420
as a specialty? Yeah, radiology to me was a means

00:19:38.420 --> 00:19:41.799
to get into interventional radiology. So interventional

00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:44.180
radiology is a specialty that not many people

00:19:44.180 --> 00:19:47.740
know about, but they say. If you're ever hospitalized,

00:19:48.059 --> 00:19:50.900
you won't be discharged until you meet an interventional

00:19:50.900 --> 00:19:53.660
radiologist. And the interventional radiologist

00:19:53.660 --> 00:19:56.019
does minimally invasive procedures through imaging.

00:19:56.180 --> 00:19:58.799
So you have to be a radiologist to use that imaging,

00:19:58.940 --> 00:20:01.019
to understand that imaging, to read that imaging,

00:20:01.140 --> 00:20:04.039
to be able to do the procedure. And that's why

00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:06.819
I did radiology. It was a means to get to this

00:20:06.819 --> 00:20:10.519
really techie, advanced specialty that we kind

00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:13.730
of abbreviate IR, interventional radiology. so

00:20:13.730 --> 00:20:15.710
would that be using contrast and those kind of

00:20:15.710 --> 00:20:18.170
things so you can see you know blood flow and

00:20:18.170 --> 00:20:21.890
and issues within the body itself exactly so

00:20:21.890 --> 00:20:24.069
i'm sure you know what an interventional cardiologist

00:20:24.069 --> 00:20:26.470
does right they put stents in the heart uh for

00:20:26.470 --> 00:20:28.569
people who are having heart attacks so i imagine

00:20:28.569 --> 00:20:30.589
the interventional radiologist is the doctor

00:20:30.589 --> 00:20:33.369
that does everything outside of the heart and

00:20:33.369 --> 00:20:36.670
we also do different types of interventions whether

00:20:36.670 --> 00:20:41.220
it's biopsies drainages for abscesses um cancer

00:20:41.220 --> 00:20:43.779
treatments um all through minimally invasive

00:20:43.779 --> 00:20:47.549
means amazing I had someone on the show a while

00:20:47.549 --> 00:20:50.769
ago that was talking about AI and the conversation

00:20:50.769 --> 00:20:55.309
initially was that the radiology profession might

00:20:55.309 --> 00:20:58.089
be threatened by AI as far as reading x -rays,

00:20:58.130 --> 00:21:01.109
etc. But then they were saying, well, no, it's

00:21:01.109 --> 00:21:03.529
not like that. It's more of a second opinion

00:21:03.529 --> 00:21:06.170
to make sure that we don't miss anything so we

00:21:06.170 --> 00:21:08.869
can let AI read as well and then we can compare

00:21:08.869 --> 00:21:10.970
and contrast and it's better for the patient.

00:21:11.190 --> 00:21:14.089
What has been your experience with this developing

00:21:14.089 --> 00:21:18.140
technology? Yeah, I think AI is more powerful

00:21:18.140 --> 00:21:21.099
than we give credit to, and it probably can do

00:21:21.099 --> 00:21:23.880
a lot more than we expect it can, especially

00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:27.460
as the way AI is developing lately, it's not

00:21:27.460 --> 00:21:32.559
linear, it's exponential. So yeah, I do think

00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:34.880
that it's going to be something I'm going to

00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:36.799
be looking out for in the next decade. We're

00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:39.180
starting to use it in my institution right now,

00:21:39.299 --> 00:21:43.720
and I could see the value, but it's also scary

00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:46.019
because we're basically teaching our own. enemy

00:21:46.019 --> 00:21:47.900
basically it's going to take over you know they

00:21:47.900 --> 00:21:49.400
say that's going to take over our jobs i don't

00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:50.819
think it's going to take over our jobs but i

00:21:50.819 --> 00:21:52.480
do think there are going to be fewer radiologists

00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:55.680
required because the ai one radiologist can read

00:21:55.680 --> 00:22:00.700
five times more with that ai helping him or her

00:22:00.700 --> 00:22:03.059
you know what i'm saying yeah yeah it's funny

00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:05.279
when i did stunts i did stunts for years and

00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:07.960
i worked in the terminator 2 show so all these

00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:10.420
conversations about cyberdyne and all that stuff

00:22:10.420 --> 00:22:13.380
like i used to play that and now here we are

00:22:13.380 --> 00:22:14.900
you know and there's robots and there's drones

00:22:14.900 --> 00:22:17.259
and there's ai and like oh okay this is this

00:22:17.259 --> 00:22:19.180
is getting faster than i thought next thing we

00:22:19.180 --> 00:22:21.019
are going to have you know cyberdyne systems

00:22:21.019 --> 00:22:25.940
and robots chasing us around so i hope not all

00:22:25.940 --> 00:22:28.559
right well then shifting away from that so we've

00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:32.299
gone through your career talk to me about um

00:22:32.299 --> 00:22:35.690
again the back story when it comes to know you

00:22:35.690 --> 00:22:39.009
advocating for the palestinian people and you

00:22:39.009 --> 00:22:41.710
know if you want to again as we hit we uh discuss

00:22:41.710 --> 00:22:43.490
before we hit record if you want to even give

00:22:43.490 --> 00:22:46.250
some some backstories some context before we

00:22:46.250 --> 00:22:52.710
talk about your journey to gaza so i am uh i'm

00:22:52.710 --> 00:22:56.329
a muslim i practice my faith um pretty religiously

00:22:56.329 --> 00:23:00.490
and uh i respect people who follow their faith

00:23:00.490 --> 00:23:02.829
or their principles pretty faithfully, because

00:23:02.829 --> 00:23:05.769
I think we live in a time where it's hard to

00:23:05.769 --> 00:23:08.430
find principled approaches. And to me, that's

00:23:08.430 --> 00:23:12.390
the main thing. People who have morality, people

00:23:12.390 --> 00:23:15.690
who live by principles, people who really value

00:23:15.690 --> 00:23:21.670
ethics, to me, that's kind of how we should aspire

00:23:21.670 --> 00:23:25.650
to be, essentially. And it doesn't necessarily

00:23:25.650 --> 00:23:27.690
mean you have to be a Muslim or a Christian or

00:23:27.690 --> 00:23:31.000
Jew. There's atheists who are... have better

00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:33.440
morality than some Muslims and Christians and

00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:38.519
Jews. So that's not what will get you to the

00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:41.339
point of caring about humanity is my point. I

00:23:41.339 --> 00:23:44.640
think just growing up, justice was also a big

00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:46.160
thing to me. I told you I always wanted to be

00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:48.640
a lawyer before medicine. And then even in medicine,

00:23:48.740 --> 00:23:52.859
just being a just person is so important. as

00:23:52.859 --> 00:23:55.059
you're being sometimes berated by a patient or

00:23:55.059 --> 00:23:57.039
a patient's family, just how are you going to

00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:58.539
deal with that anger? How are you going to deal

00:23:58.539 --> 00:24:01.660
with that trauma that they're dealing with? And,

00:24:01.700 --> 00:24:04.740
you know, we get trained during medical school

00:24:04.740 --> 00:24:07.319
how to deal with difficult situations. And I

00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:09.839
think part of that just helps you to kind of

00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:15.400
focus on morality and justice and ethics. And,

00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:22.200
you know, as time went on. And I got older and

00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:24.960
started reading more about politics. I just realized

00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:27.460
what kind of world we live in. Obviously, then

00:24:27.460 --> 00:24:29.960
I started having kids. And now, thank God, I

00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:33.779
have three kids. And I'm just realizing I want

00:24:33.779 --> 00:24:37.140
my kids to see me as someone who stood up for

00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:40.259
humanity at all times. I want them to be proud

00:24:40.259 --> 00:24:43.680
of me. I want them to live in a world where it's

00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:48.500
difficult to find what's right. And so I want

00:24:48.500 --> 00:24:50.650
them to have someone. that they can look up to

00:24:50.650 --> 00:24:55.910
and trust. So was this something that really

00:24:55.910 --> 00:25:00.349
spawned out of the reaction to October 7th, or

00:25:00.349 --> 00:25:03.730
was this prior to that? I mean, it goes prior.

00:25:04.450 --> 00:25:09.150
I don't think the Israel -Palestine conflict

00:25:09.150 --> 00:25:15.109
is what sparked my morality to really speak loud.

00:25:15.869 --> 00:25:19.970
I think... you know coming from india for example

00:25:19.970 --> 00:25:22.710
my parents talked about some of the experiences

00:25:22.710 --> 00:25:27.190
they had you know like um when my grandfather

00:25:27.190 --> 00:25:30.569
talks about his stories of them having to flee

00:25:30.569 --> 00:25:34.150
to pakistan because um you know there was some

00:25:34.150 --> 00:25:37.329
conflicts in india happening so it happened to

00:25:37.329 --> 00:25:40.130
them too you know just having to leave as refugees

00:25:40.130 --> 00:25:43.069
and then go to a new area and establish a new

00:25:43.069 --> 00:25:47.960
life and um And it definitely didn't start October

00:25:47.960 --> 00:25:51.380
7th. It's always been there. And then you read

00:25:51.380 --> 00:25:53.599
about what happened in Bosnia. You hear about

00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:56.920
what happened in Burma. You hear about what's

00:25:56.920 --> 00:26:00.299
happening in Sudan and in the Congo. It's just

00:26:00.299 --> 00:26:02.619
everywhere. You just see injustice everywhere.

00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:05.420
You see violence everywhere. It makes you wonder,

00:26:05.480 --> 00:26:09.119
what is behind all of this? And I don't think

00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:10.680
it's a single answer. I think it's very complicated

00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:17.400
because evil is multifaceted. But yeah, I just

00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:22.500
couldn't just stay silent after what we saw these

00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:26.700
last year and a half in terms of numbers, in

00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:29.079
terms of the videos coming out. I mean, we can't

00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:31.539
deny the fact that this is the first live stream

00:26:31.539 --> 00:26:34.980
mass killing. And I myself will say the word

00:26:34.980 --> 00:26:37.180
genocide as a physician who actually experienced

00:26:37.180 --> 00:26:40.099
it firsthand as you'll get into. But yeah, I

00:26:40.099 --> 00:26:42.279
just couldn't take it anymore. It was just too

00:26:42.279 --> 00:26:45.720
much. violence that I was seeing firsthand on

00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.740
my phone, which I've never actually seen before.

00:26:49.740 --> 00:26:52.559
I've used this example with a few people that

00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:53.900
have come on the show talking about the same

00:26:53.900 --> 00:26:57.720
thing. I grew up with the IRA bombing the mainland.

00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:01.839
And again, if I look back in the history of the

00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:05.099
conflict with Britain and the Irish, again, it

00:27:05.099 --> 00:27:08.339
makes no sense. We're all the same people, full

00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:11.799
stop. But you can see the kind of origin story

00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:14.799
of the oppression. But they were bombing the

00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:16.319
mainland, you know, shopping malls and those

00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:19.240
kind of things. And when October 7th happened,

00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:22.240
which was horrific and a lot of innocent people

00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:24.200
were killed, I know some of the stories were

00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:26.299
exaggerated, but a lot of innocent people were

00:27:26.299 --> 00:27:29.900
killed regardless. It to me was like, you know,

00:27:29.900 --> 00:27:32.759
a mainland bombing by the IRA in the 1980s, you

00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:34.599
know, because I literally had to sweep under

00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:36.240
the car with a mirror. We were right next to

00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:38.059
a military base when I was young on my farm.

00:27:38.660 --> 00:27:42.220
And so. That will be like the British then going

00:27:42.220 --> 00:27:45.680
in and destroying the entire city of Belfast.

00:27:46.019 --> 00:27:48.460
And the rest of the world wouldn't tolerate that.

00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:51.000
You know what I mean? So this is where I started

00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:53.720
going, OK, what the hell is going on? Is initially

00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:55.920
there was a reaction to October 7th and be like,

00:27:55.980 --> 00:27:58.819
oh, God, this is awful. You know, this conflict

00:27:58.819 --> 00:28:00.839
has been going on for so long. And now there's

00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:04.220
even more innocent people being killed. But it

00:28:04.220 --> 00:28:07.279
didn't stop. And it got worse and worse and worse.

00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:12.579
And then, as you said, depending on your ability

00:28:12.579 --> 00:28:15.779
to lean into humanity or whether you were politicized

00:28:15.779 --> 00:28:17.759
in one way or the other, whatever it was, the

00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:20.460
numbers became irrefutable. When the number of

00:28:20.460 --> 00:28:22.440
children that were killed were in the tens of

00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:25.500
thousands, now you can't say that's collateral.

00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:28.599
There was a point where it really crossed a moral

00:28:28.599 --> 00:28:31.359
threshold and you realize that the reaction to

00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:34.880
it was not. you know, a military response. It

00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:37.259
was far different than that. So that's when,

00:28:37.259 --> 00:28:39.539
you know, Thayer and Alan Shabarro and some of

00:28:39.539 --> 00:28:42.180
these people came on early because I was disgusted.

00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:44.900
Because as you said, as a human, as someone with

00:28:44.900 --> 00:28:48.059
empathy who does a job where you literally would

00:28:48.059 --> 00:28:50.880
die to try and help someone, how can you look

00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:53.380
at that and not go, that is wrong? Full stop.

00:28:53.619 --> 00:28:58.259
End of story. So as you're watching this, you

00:28:58.259 --> 00:29:02.430
know, At what point did you start seeing the

00:29:02.430 --> 00:29:05.029
inequity and this was a different response and

00:29:05.029 --> 00:29:07.170
then kind of walk us through what made you decide

00:29:07.170 --> 00:29:11.329
to actually get on a plane yourself? So October

00:29:11.329 --> 00:29:18.089
7th, I feel like people really don't know what

00:29:18.089 --> 00:29:20.150
was happening before that. And I know this gets

00:29:20.150 --> 00:29:22.849
people in a lot of trouble to talk about, but

00:29:22.849 --> 00:29:26.049
the reality is there have been so many October

00:29:26.049 --> 00:29:31.069
7th in the world. And in Israel -Palestine conflict

00:29:31.069 --> 00:29:35.369
on both sides in the past, you know, decades.

00:29:35.789 --> 00:29:41.509
So I truly felt October 7th was inevitable. You

00:29:41.509 --> 00:29:43.930
know, and we know October 7th like the back of

00:29:43.930 --> 00:29:45.930
our hand at this point that day. But, you know,

00:29:45.990 --> 00:29:48.769
between Iraq and Iran, there's like 200 people

00:29:48.769 --> 00:29:52.549
bombed in a mosque. You know, that doesn't become

00:29:52.549 --> 00:29:55.509
a date. In Pakistan, you have conflicts happening

00:29:55.509 --> 00:29:58.420
all the time. 50 people bombed, children and

00:29:58.420 --> 00:30:00.200
women killed. That doesn't become a date. So

00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:02.460
obviously, just being in the West, we have this

00:30:02.460 --> 00:30:06.859
media that's pushing this conflict more than

00:30:06.859 --> 00:30:09.240
other conflicts. So that's one point. Another

00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:11.400
point is just in the Israel -Palestine conflict,

00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:14.380
I mean, it really doesn't take much digging to

00:30:14.380 --> 00:30:16.920
understand that this has been a decades -old

00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:21.940
conflict. And it really does not start on October

00:30:21.940 --> 00:30:25.029
7th, no matter how much. the media will tell

00:30:25.029 --> 00:30:27.650
you, just read up on yourself. I mean, it's really

00:30:27.650 --> 00:30:30.829
not challenging to open a book, open up a website.

00:30:31.089 --> 00:30:34.490
And nowadays, ChatGPT or one of these other AI

00:30:34.490 --> 00:30:36.930
agents, you know, just ask and figure it out

00:30:36.930 --> 00:30:39.690
yourself. And you'll come up with the same conclusion

00:30:39.690 --> 00:30:42.309
that many others who have researched it come

00:30:42.309 --> 00:30:44.410
up with. I'm not Palestinian, but I like to do

00:30:44.410 --> 00:30:46.809
my own research. As a physician, you know, we're

00:30:46.809 --> 00:30:49.329
always taught primary evidence, you know, evidence

00:30:49.329 --> 00:30:52.940
-based medicine. What decision did you make that

00:30:52.940 --> 00:30:55.539
decision off of? What paper did you read that

00:30:55.539 --> 00:30:57.160
allows you to give some medication over that

00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:01.099
medication? Why is that procedure indicated in

00:31:01.099 --> 00:31:04.140
this patient with this disease? You look at the

00:31:04.140 --> 00:31:07.519
papers, you look at primary evidence. So to me,

00:31:07.539 --> 00:31:09.259
I've always been like that. I've always liked

00:31:09.259 --> 00:31:12.160
to go back to the sources and really see what's

00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:14.200
going on. I don't really take what people tell

00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:17.779
me at face value unless I see it myself, right?

00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:20.339
And I think that's important to some extent.

00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:21.640
I think it's important to trust people, too.

00:31:21.700 --> 00:31:24.660
Don't get me wrong. But you have to trust the

00:31:24.660 --> 00:31:29.660
right people. Absolutely. So what, again, through

00:31:29.660 --> 00:31:32.000
your eyes, there's all these back and forth.

00:31:32.119 --> 00:31:34.039
Like I said, it goes back. I actually saw, and

00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:36.759
this was an Instagram post. So again, I'd have

00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:39.140
to take a deep dive into the history. But it

00:31:39.140 --> 00:31:44.740
was like the 1910s that some British, I forget,

00:31:44.819 --> 00:31:47.839
it was an Earl or someone, you know, was... given

00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:50.259
the ability to actually dish out Palestinian

00:31:50.259 --> 00:31:53.900
land to, I forget if it was specifically Israel

00:31:53.900 --> 00:31:56.339
or other people too. But I mean, so, you know,

00:31:56.359 --> 00:31:59.339
my forefathers, you know, the damage that's been

00:31:59.339 --> 00:32:01.539
done through colonization. I mean, you can just

00:32:01.539 --> 00:32:03.440
keep going back and back and back and back. And

00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:05.460
there's this, the origin story becomes another

00:32:05.460 --> 00:32:07.819
origin story. And, you know, like Afghanistan,

00:32:08.099 --> 00:32:10.420
you know, you've got our conflict and you go

00:32:10.420 --> 00:32:12.099
back and it's the Russians. And then, you know,

00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:17.049
this is, you know, it never ends. At what point

00:32:17.049 --> 00:32:19.930
did you realize that post -October 7th this was

00:32:19.930 --> 00:32:22.130
different, though? This was a different response

00:32:22.130 --> 00:32:25.269
now? And then talk to me, like I said, about

00:32:25.269 --> 00:32:27.490
what made you decide to say, right, I'm going

00:32:27.490 --> 00:32:30.250
to go over there, even though we're talking 2025

00:32:30.250 --> 00:32:32.990
now. Yeah, so I knew there was going to be an

00:32:32.990 --> 00:32:36.269
asymmetric response after October 7th. That said,

00:32:36.289 --> 00:32:39.490
I did not expect what we're seeing now. I really

00:32:39.490 --> 00:32:43.609
did not expect this full, all -out genocide.

00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:47.119
by almost all accounts except legal. So what

00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:49.519
I mean by that is, you know, International Court

00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:53.119
of Justice is the only organization that can

00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:55.319
legally make that binding decision that this

00:32:55.319 --> 00:32:58.599
is a genocide. But NGOs, physicians, people,

00:32:58.779 --> 00:33:03.640
you know, who experienced it can non -legally

00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:05.759
say that it's a genocide. So I truly do. But,

00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:07.279
you know, at that time, I was like, oh, man,

00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:09.740
so many people are going to die now. You know,

00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:11.900
Israel is going to really do their, I think they

00:33:11.900 --> 00:33:14.359
have something called the Dahia Doctrine. where

00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:18.099
they have something called asymmetric retaliation.

00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:22.460
And so I knew that they were going to do something

00:33:22.460 --> 00:33:24.420
along those lines. I didn't know what. Maybe

00:33:24.420 --> 00:33:26.859
1 ,000 people die, 2 ,000 people die. But it

00:33:26.859 --> 00:33:29.279
just kept going up and up and up. And it just

00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:32.119
every day, every week, every month just got worse

00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:34.099
and worse. And the pictures coming out just got

00:33:34.099 --> 00:33:38.059
more disgusting. And it just didn't stop. And

00:33:38.059 --> 00:33:41.910
you just see the progression just. you know,

00:33:41.910 --> 00:33:44.509
unstoppable. And we're like, okay, the UN is

00:33:44.509 --> 00:33:46.569
going to stop it now. And then you see the UN

00:33:46.569 --> 00:33:48.589
Security Council, you know, didn't go through,

00:33:48.630 --> 00:33:50.690
the vote didn't go through because America said

00:33:50.690 --> 00:33:53.230
no. And every other country said yes to a ceasefire.

00:33:53.730 --> 00:33:55.910
And then, you know, you hear about negotiations

00:33:55.910 --> 00:33:57.849
happening. Oh, there's almost a ceasefire. Oh,

00:33:57.869 --> 00:33:59.349
and then there's a ceasefire. So you get happy,

00:33:59.410 --> 00:34:01.589
but then they got broken. And it's just like,

00:34:01.710 --> 00:34:05.630
you know, at what point is this, you know, how

00:34:05.630 --> 00:34:07.410
are the civilians going to get through this,

00:34:07.430 --> 00:34:10.829
you know? And it came to a point where I was

00:34:10.829 --> 00:34:14.409
like, Man, I wish I was a trauma surgeon. I wish

00:34:14.409 --> 00:34:18.570
I was a ER physician because I would go over

00:34:18.570 --> 00:34:21.610
there and help. And I say that to myself, but

00:34:21.610 --> 00:34:22.989
I don't know if I actually would have at that

00:34:22.989 --> 00:34:27.909
time. But then someone actually reached out to

00:34:27.909 --> 00:34:29.710
me who had gone. He was an orthopedic surgeon.

00:34:30.309 --> 00:34:33.429
And he's like, hey, this opportunity might come

00:34:33.429 --> 00:34:35.030
up where you can actually go. Are you interested?

00:34:35.769 --> 00:34:37.849
And for me, it was like, absolutely, no doubt.

00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:40.280
I didn't even consult my wife or anything at

00:34:40.280 --> 00:34:41.980
that point when I said that to him. Obviously,

00:34:41.980 --> 00:34:43.880
I knew I would have to ask my wife and my mom,

00:34:43.900 --> 00:34:46.059
my dad. But to him, I just said, absolutely,

00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:48.059
like, tell me how I'm going to get there and

00:34:48.059 --> 00:34:51.239
we'll take the next step. You know, we'll figure

00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:56.199
it out. So walk me through that then. Yeah, so

00:34:56.199 --> 00:34:57.880
I was actually on a plane back from like a medical

00:34:57.880 --> 00:35:01.699
conference in New Orleans. And I got this text

00:35:01.699 --> 00:35:04.099
from him. I was on the in -plane Wi -Fi, you

00:35:04.099 --> 00:35:07.260
know, nowadays. And I got this text from my good

00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:09.460
buddy. He was an orthopedic surgeon. We went

00:35:09.460 --> 00:35:11.800
to medical school together. And he's like, hey,

00:35:11.900 --> 00:35:13.579
you know, this opportunity came up. Are you interested?

00:35:13.699 --> 00:35:15.780
And I said, absolutely. Like, tell me the details.

00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:20.420
So I landed and it was nighttime. I told my wife,

00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:21.719
hey, let's put the kids to sleep and let's go

00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:23.179
have some coffee downstairs at night, you know,

00:35:23.219 --> 00:35:26.039
which usually means like we need to talk about

00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:29.440
something. And so she's like, so what's going

00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:32.179
on? And I was like, oh, man, this opportunity

00:35:32.179 --> 00:35:37.199
came up. It's an opportunity of a lifetime. And

00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:41.219
I'm just, I don't know how to tell you. And then

00:35:41.219 --> 00:35:42.780
she just interrupted me. She's like, it's Gaza,

00:35:42.940 --> 00:35:45.780
isn't it? And I was like, yeah. Thank God. And

00:35:45.780 --> 00:35:47.340
she knew, she figured it out because I had just

00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:50.719
been talking about Gaza. To me, it was one of

00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:54.260
those things, I can go to work and treat patients

00:35:54.260 --> 00:35:57.820
and have a nice lunch and have my latte, but

00:35:57.820 --> 00:36:00.219
not talking about Gaza just felt empty. It was

00:36:00.219 --> 00:36:02.380
almost like I'm enjoying my life while people

00:36:02.380 --> 00:36:04.889
were being annihilated over there. you know,

00:36:04.889 --> 00:36:08.929
on the daily, I just felt odd. So you can ask

00:36:08.929 --> 00:36:10.769
any of my colleagues for the last year and a

00:36:10.769 --> 00:36:13.590
half. I just bring up Gaza. I'm like, hey, you

00:36:13.590 --> 00:36:15.230
guys following? What's going on? Like, you know,

00:36:15.230 --> 00:36:17.090
what do you think? I just try to make conversation

00:36:17.090 --> 00:36:20.809
about it. How was it received? Because it's been

00:36:20.809 --> 00:36:23.670
interesting at the beginning. You know, I mean,

00:36:23.710 --> 00:36:26.880
I even had my social media. account closed. And

00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:29.380
supposedly it was for copyright, but there was

00:36:29.380 --> 00:36:31.800
no warning, nothing. It just all of a sudden

00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:34.420
went away. The appeals never went anywhere. And

00:36:34.420 --> 00:36:37.800
I was, again, not even putting a lot out there,

00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:39.980
just as a human being saying this is wrong and

00:36:39.980 --> 00:36:43.920
having guests and sharing videos if it was pertinent.

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:49.320
And even the British, my home country, the BBC,

00:36:49.719 --> 00:36:52.239
everything if they were talking about Gaza was

00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:54.820
Hamas led and then it would go to the thing.

00:36:55.530 --> 00:36:57.309
And then, you know, here we are with America

00:36:57.309 --> 00:37:00.849
and we're literally arming, you know, this genocide.

00:37:01.110 --> 00:37:04.909
We are providing the weapons for it. So I found

00:37:04.909 --> 00:37:07.869
it disgusting early on the apathy, the lack of

00:37:07.869 --> 00:37:10.469
courage to stand up and say this is wrong. And

00:37:10.469 --> 00:37:12.630
it's not anti -Semitic to say this is wrong.

00:37:12.769 --> 00:37:15.210
A lot of Jewish people are disgusted by this.

00:37:15.230 --> 00:37:17.190
This isn't in the name of the religion. This

00:37:17.190 --> 00:37:19.989
is a certain group of tyrants that are doing

00:37:19.989 --> 00:37:23.090
this for money and power, not for the greater

00:37:23.090 --> 00:37:25.679
good of them. in their religion or their culture.

00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:30.380
And so it's great to see it shifted now, but

00:37:30.380 --> 00:37:33.920
it took so long. It was just nauseating, the

00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:37.239
lack of courage, you know, for so, so long. So,

00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:39.000
you know, when you were talking about this early

00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:41.280
on, what was the reception with your community

00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:46.119
at the time? I actually had difficulty getting

00:37:46.119 --> 00:37:49.460
to people. The first week I myself was like,

00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:51.119
oh man, I don't know how to respond to this.

00:37:51.199 --> 00:37:53.159
Like what's going to happen? You know, because

00:37:53.159 --> 00:37:55.300
October 7th, you know, there's no, you know,

00:37:55.300 --> 00:37:59.039
there's nothing you can say. And, and then a

00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:00.699
week after that, I think it just being clear,

00:38:00.820 --> 00:38:03.400
like, you know, I think it was a week or two,

00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:05.480
you know, there was already 1000 civilians dead.

00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:08.780
A lot of them babies and kids. And it just became

00:38:08.780 --> 00:38:10.340
clear that that in itself would have been enough,

00:38:10.420 --> 00:38:12.460
right? Like, let's stop now. But I just kept

00:38:12.460 --> 00:38:15.039
going. So at that point, at a point where I just

00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:17.099
realized, like, okay, it's getting out of hand

00:38:17.099 --> 00:38:19.780
is when I started talking. When I went to me,

00:38:19.820 --> 00:38:22.969
it was clear. Even though at that time it wasn't

00:38:22.969 --> 00:38:25.389
clear that the beheaded babies news was false,

00:38:25.489 --> 00:38:28.409
even though, you know, the alleged rapes was

00:38:28.409 --> 00:38:31.269
false. And we found that out later by legitimate

00:38:31.269 --> 00:38:33.949
sources. I didn't I couldn't defend that because

00:38:33.949 --> 00:38:38.010
I had no primary sources to defend it. So at

00:38:38.010 --> 00:38:39.809
that time, I was just trying to focus on the

00:38:39.809 --> 00:38:42.010
civilian death that was already happening at

00:38:42.010 --> 00:38:45.250
that point, which was in the thousands. And I

00:38:45.250 --> 00:38:47.730
just said, hey, like, you know, if we lived in

00:38:47.730 --> 00:38:50.480
the time of the Holocaust. We say we would be

00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:51.880
on the right side of history. We would defend

00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:53.900
the oppressed. We would speak up for the voiceless.

00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:56.460
I definitely would say that I would do that.

00:38:56.519 --> 00:38:58.639
Right. But if given the chance, would I actually

00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:00.840
do it? And to me, this was it. Like, I'm going

00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:02.900
to speak up for the oppressed. I'm going to speak

00:39:02.900 --> 00:39:04.440
up for the voiceless. And I'm going to share

00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:09.280
these people's stories to my community. To the

00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:13.320
point, I think maybe in November, as a Palestinian

00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:16.260
in our community, we asked her to make some sweets

00:39:16.260 --> 00:39:19.219
like baklava and whatnot. And I took it to work.

00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:22.420
And I sat everyone down. And I used the opportunity

00:39:22.420 --> 00:39:24.500
to kind of explain the conflict and the history,

00:39:24.659 --> 00:39:29.840
1948, 1967, and how that resulted in October

00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:33.340
7th and to what's going on in Gaza now. And at

00:39:33.340 --> 00:39:35.920
the end, I said, the person who made this is

00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:38.320
a Palestinian. And she had one request that I

00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:41.039
share with you while I'm talking to you. And

00:39:41.039 --> 00:39:43.219
they're like, what is it? And they said that

00:39:43.219 --> 00:39:46.789
Palestinians are humans too. And I just... That

00:39:46.789 --> 00:39:48.889
was it. That was my message. And they just started

00:39:48.889 --> 00:39:52.610
crying, you know? Yeah. I mean, that's the problem.

00:39:52.769 --> 00:39:55.469
You know, when you create a boogeyman, you dehumanize.

00:39:55.469 --> 00:39:57.389
And you hear so many of the veterans that have

00:39:57.389 --> 00:40:01.469
been on here. I ask about, you know, the atrocities

00:40:01.469 --> 00:40:03.389
that, you know, not tell me the worst thing that

00:40:03.389 --> 00:40:05.869
you saw, but, you know, some of the lack of humanity

00:40:05.869 --> 00:40:08.949
in some of these war zones where they were protecting

00:40:08.949 --> 00:40:11.880
the, you know, the local people. And I talk to

00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:14.199
them about kindness and compassion. And, you

00:40:14.199 --> 00:40:16.380
know, the way that they talk about the Afghan

00:40:16.380 --> 00:40:18.980
people, the Iraqi people in certain areas, they're

00:40:18.980 --> 00:40:20.239
like, yeah, they were beautiful. You know, go

00:40:20.239 --> 00:40:22.539
in and the dad would be fixing the car and mom

00:40:22.539 --> 00:40:25.019
would be making dinner and they'd always offer

00:40:25.019 --> 00:40:27.920
us food. And it could have been, you know, Baghdad

00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:29.760
or it could have been Detroit. I mean, it's the

00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:32.199
same exact thing. Yeah. But what's happened here

00:40:32.199 --> 00:40:34.099
is, you know, the boogeyman Hamas, Hamas, Hamas,

00:40:34.219 --> 00:40:37.039
October 7th, October 7th, to the point where

00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:39.960
even though there's all this footage of children

00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:43.380
being pulled out of rubble, you know, and screaming

00:40:43.380 --> 00:40:46.880
parents holding their limp toddlers, that that

00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:50.199
still would not break through the politicization

00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:53.079
that was being sold to the people. And if you

00:40:53.079 --> 00:40:56.000
dare have any empathy, then you must be a bleeding

00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:59.019
heart liberal or whatever the term was. And so,

00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:01.059
I mean, it's turning now, but it was disgusting

00:41:01.059 --> 00:41:04.280
to see. And I've said this comment, you know,

00:41:04.300 --> 00:41:07.059
my grandfather fought in World War II. Those

00:41:07.059 --> 00:41:10.139
incredible men and women. said, I'm going to

00:41:10.139 --> 00:41:13.199
do something. This is wrong. And where is that

00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:15.920
voice now? They would be disgusted in our generation.

00:41:17.340 --> 00:41:20.579
Absolutely. That's a good point. So you got this

00:41:20.579 --> 00:41:22.599
text, you've had this conversation with your

00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:25.159
co -workers. How does that lead you to actually

00:41:25.159 --> 00:41:28.800
flying over there yourself? So I was really scared

00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:30.400
that I would be denied. So there's about a 75

00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:35.059
% rejection rate at the Jordan -Israel border

00:41:35.059 --> 00:41:38.619
to get into Gaza from doctors. So I really didn't

00:41:38.619 --> 00:41:40.880
tell anyone except for one coworker. I have like

00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:43.960
20 partners at work and I told one of them who's

00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:46.300
in charge of scheduling and he knows how, how

00:41:46.300 --> 00:41:48.699
passionate I was. So I called him up and I said,

00:41:48.760 --> 00:41:52.480
Hey man, something came up and it means everything

00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:56.159
to me. I need two weeks off, like two additional

00:41:56.159 --> 00:41:59.699
weeks off, you know? And he's like, Oh man, like

00:41:59.699 --> 00:42:02.460
I know if it means that much to you, just consider

00:42:02.460 --> 00:42:05.019
it off. You know, which to me was like the most.

00:42:05.669 --> 00:42:07.369
amazing answer I could have heard at that point

00:42:07.369 --> 00:42:08.750
because I was really scared he wouldn't give

00:42:08.750 --> 00:42:11.889
me the time off and then I was like man like

00:42:11.889 --> 00:42:13.929
he's so nice and I had to share you know so I

00:42:13.929 --> 00:42:16.110
told him about the possibility of going to Gaza

00:42:16.110 --> 00:42:18.210
and how I need to get some medical supplies and

00:42:18.210 --> 00:42:22.670
how I'm not sure if I'm going to be let in so

00:42:22.670 --> 00:42:24.289
if I'm not I'll come back to work immediately

00:42:25.589 --> 00:42:28.909
And, yeah, at that point, I just had some consultations

00:42:28.909 --> 00:42:31.449
with my mom, my dad, my siblings, some really

00:42:31.449 --> 00:42:33.510
close friends to see what their opinions were.

00:42:33.730 --> 00:42:37.829
Some doctors that I know had been to Gaza before

00:42:37.829 --> 00:42:40.869
this conflict and during the conflict. And I

00:42:40.869 --> 00:42:43.969
just got many different people's opinions. And

00:42:43.969 --> 00:42:45.309
at the end of the day, I just realized, like,

00:42:45.389 --> 00:42:47.269
man, this is a conversation I need to have with

00:42:47.269 --> 00:42:51.030
God and see what's in my heart. And I know in

00:42:51.030 --> 00:42:55.050
my heart I want to go. I want to help. You know,

00:42:55.050 --> 00:42:57.170
the woman, the children, the elderly, the men,

00:42:57.289 --> 00:43:01.329
the fathers. And it came to a point where I was

00:43:01.329 --> 00:43:03.710
just like, even if I go there and help one person,

00:43:03.769 --> 00:43:06.849
I'll be happy. And that was kind of my decision.

00:43:07.949 --> 00:43:09.809
So what was some of the supplies that you were

00:43:09.809 --> 00:43:13.510
trying to get over there? So I'm an interventional

00:43:13.510 --> 00:43:17.070
radiologist. It's kind of a techie resource heavy

00:43:17.070 --> 00:43:19.170
specialty. It's not like a trauma surgeon where

00:43:19.170 --> 00:43:22.480
you just need a blade and some sutures. And it

00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:24.360
requires infrastructure. It requires an x -ray

00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:27.400
machine, a fluoroscopy machine. So I was planning

00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:30.619
on doing trauma cases, some cancer cases, some

00:43:30.619 --> 00:43:34.760
pediatric cases, and some women's fibroid cases.

00:43:35.500 --> 00:43:38.119
And so I had to get the proper equipment to do

00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:41.239
those cases while in Gaza. And the way I knew

00:43:41.239 --> 00:43:43.920
I needed to do these procedures is I got into

00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:45.860
contact with one of the local interventional

00:43:45.860 --> 00:43:48.559
radiology doctors in Gaza. There's only two in

00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:52.570
the entire... population of 2 .1 million. Just

00:43:52.570 --> 00:43:55.909
for comparison, in Houston, the population is

00:43:55.909 --> 00:43:58.550
about 2 .3 million, I believe. There's probably,

00:43:58.670 --> 00:44:02.429
you know, two, three hundred interventional radiology

00:44:02.429 --> 00:44:06.369
doctors in Houston. So two, it's just not enough,

00:44:06.469 --> 00:44:08.210
right? So when I told them I was coming, they

00:44:08.210 --> 00:44:10.130
got really excited. They told me, oh, we need

00:44:10.130 --> 00:44:12.389
this, we need that. We'll try to set up. patients

00:44:12.389 --> 00:44:14.469
for you. So they actually brought patients to

00:44:14.469 --> 00:44:16.369
their clinic before I even got there and said,

00:44:16.409 --> 00:44:17.829
we're going to set you up with this American

00:44:17.829 --> 00:44:19.250
doctor who's coming and he's going to do your

00:44:19.250 --> 00:44:22.389
procedure in two months. And so they were really

00:44:22.389 --> 00:44:24.809
excited, you know, because there's cancers being

00:44:24.809 --> 00:44:27.849
ignored there. There's pediatric diseases that's

00:44:27.849 --> 00:44:29.889
being ignored there. And there's women's diseases

00:44:29.889 --> 00:44:31.969
that's being ignored there because the trauma

00:44:31.969 --> 00:44:34.650
is just overwhelming the hospitals. And there's

00:44:34.650 --> 00:44:38.369
no one to focus on the chronic care issues. So

00:44:38.369 --> 00:44:41.449
I've heard several people talking about the problems

00:44:41.449 --> 00:44:43.590
at the border, whether they're being turned away

00:44:43.590 --> 00:44:45.630
completely, whether equipment is not allowed

00:44:45.630 --> 00:44:49.250
through. You get on this flight, you land. Can

00:44:49.250 --> 00:44:51.349
you walk me through the ability to actually even

00:44:51.349 --> 00:44:55.510
get across? So from Chicago, you take a flight

00:44:55.510 --> 00:44:58.469
to Amman, which is about a 12 to 14 hour flight.

00:44:59.389 --> 00:45:02.329
You stay in a hotel. So you have to be there

00:45:02.329 --> 00:45:05.199
the night before you're scheduled to entry. um

00:45:05.199 --> 00:45:07.699
so you get there at night or whatever the day

00:45:07.699 --> 00:45:11.519
before and then you get an email 12 hours before

00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:16.079
your scheduled arrival into israel okay and you

00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:18.159
basically get an excel document that's has your

00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:22.179
name and it's either green or red and so if you're

00:45:22.179 --> 00:45:24.099
red you just fly right back home you can't do

00:45:24.099 --> 00:45:26.820
anything um or you stick around in jordan and

00:45:26.820 --> 00:45:30.579
just kind of enjoy jordan um but if you're green

00:45:30.579 --> 00:45:34.460
then you're good to go so I would say 22 of us

00:45:34.460 --> 00:45:38.760
applied to this trip and some people got some

00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:42.659
denial letters. Six of us got in. And even when

00:45:42.659 --> 00:45:44.719
we were in Amman, some people had just landed

00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:46.360
and they were going right back. One guy was from

00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:50.780
the UK. He was actually an Egyptian who, you

00:45:50.780 --> 00:45:52.739
know, he's a citizen of the UK and he's an ENT

00:45:52.739 --> 00:45:55.179
surgeon. So he felt really, you know, he was

00:45:55.179 --> 00:45:58.610
just. devastated. He had all this medical equipment

00:45:58.610 --> 00:46:00.530
he was planning on bringing in. He was in contact

00:46:00.530 --> 00:46:03.610
with some of the local ENT doctors. So before

00:46:03.610 --> 00:46:05.849
he left, he came up to me and was like, hey,

00:46:05.869 --> 00:46:07.889
man, can you take some of this with you and give

00:46:07.889 --> 00:46:09.469
it to some of these surgeons that I was supposed

00:46:09.469 --> 00:46:12.469
to meet up? And so I agreed. He was a better

00:46:12.469 --> 00:46:15.530
packer than I was. So I took some of his gear

00:46:15.530 --> 00:46:18.210
and he helped me sit on the luggage so I can

00:46:18.210 --> 00:46:22.849
fit more stuff in. And yeah, that's it. So once

00:46:22.849 --> 00:46:25.039
you get the green light, you go to sleep. You

00:46:25.039 --> 00:46:26.519
wake up really early in the morning. There's

00:46:26.519 --> 00:46:29.000
a bus waiting for you that takes you to the Jordanian

00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:31.719
border, which took us about four hours, four

00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:33.519
or five hours to get through. And then there's

00:46:33.519 --> 00:46:35.579
a bus that takes you from the Jordanian customs

00:46:35.579 --> 00:46:39.639
to the Israeli customs. That takes about 30 minutes.

00:46:40.300 --> 00:46:42.460
And then you get off the bus and then your bags

00:46:42.460 --> 00:46:44.099
have to be rechecked. You have to be rechecked

00:46:44.099 --> 00:46:46.679
on the Israel side. That takes about three or

00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:51.969
four hours. And then now at this point. There's

00:46:51.969 --> 00:46:54.289
a separation. Some of the Palestinians are going

00:46:54.289 --> 00:46:57.590
to the West Bank. Some of the Israelis are going

00:46:57.590 --> 00:47:01.110
to Israel. And then the NGOs and physicians are

00:47:01.110 --> 00:47:04.269
going to Gaza. So it's like a trifurcation. So

00:47:04.269 --> 00:47:07.329
those of us who are going to Gaza are waiting,

00:47:07.469 --> 00:47:10.230
all of us to meet from different organizations

00:47:10.230 --> 00:47:12.750
to be done with security. And then there's an

00:47:12.750 --> 00:47:17.690
IDF, Israeli Army convoy that takes all the buses

00:47:17.690 --> 00:47:21.389
from the NGOs into Gaza. And that's about...

00:47:21.400 --> 00:47:24.139
um a two three hour drive from the from the border

00:47:24.139 --> 00:47:27.460
to the gaza checkpoint and we entered through

00:47:27.460 --> 00:47:29.659
the kissifum checkpoint so by the time we got

00:47:29.659 --> 00:47:32.679
there it was nighttime uh and i remember as our

00:47:32.679 --> 00:47:36.159
bus was going into the kissifum army checkpoint

00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:38.840
all you could see it was really eerie it was

00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:40.800
dark you just see these really high intensity

00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:43.300
stadium lights kind of illuminating this parking

00:47:43.300 --> 00:47:45.840
lot in the distance you can see some tanks parked

00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:48.800
you can see just soldiers with their uh with

00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:51.940
their with their weapons on them And we sat on

00:47:51.940 --> 00:47:54.300
our bus for an hour and then they told us we

00:47:54.300 --> 00:47:57.280
can switch over to the Gaza buses. So now the

00:47:57.280 --> 00:48:00.539
Gaza buses came and we get off and we take our

00:48:00.539 --> 00:48:03.340
luggage and go from one bus to the other. And

00:48:03.340 --> 00:48:05.059
then we sit on that bus for another two hours

00:48:05.059 --> 00:48:07.360
in this parking lot with just soldiers kind of

00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:09.480
monitoring the situation. And then after two

00:48:09.480 --> 00:48:11.340
hours sitting on that bus, then we're given the

00:48:11.340 --> 00:48:14.079
green light to actually go into Gaza. So if there

00:48:14.079 --> 00:48:16.619
was no borders or checkpoints, three hour journey

00:48:16.619 --> 00:48:20.650
from Amman to Gaza took us about 14 hours. Crazy.

00:48:20.730 --> 00:48:22.369
And were there any issues getting the equipment

00:48:22.369 --> 00:48:26.909
across? Yeah, so that's a good question. We were

00:48:26.909 --> 00:48:31.090
lucky in that we got a lot of our medical equipment

00:48:31.090 --> 00:48:35.030
in. We took some ultrasounds. We took some, you

00:48:35.030 --> 00:48:37.630
know, like I told you, I'm an interventional

00:48:37.630 --> 00:48:39.429
radiologist. So I took some of my equipment in.

00:48:39.469 --> 00:48:41.710
My colleagues also did. Our main thing was just

00:48:41.710 --> 00:48:45.969
bringing in food. We went in June 2025 and the

00:48:45.969 --> 00:48:49.599
starvation. problem was really just taking off

00:48:49.599 --> 00:48:53.519
um and obviously now it's july and august and

00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:56.219
the situation has just got exponentially worse

00:48:56.219 --> 00:48:58.760
so yeah as of june we were really just trying

00:48:58.760 --> 00:49:02.119
to bring in you know food high protein uh kind

00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:05.659
of things peanut butter uh baby formula and so

00:49:05.659 --> 00:49:10.199
we got lucky and and and uh yeah i i will say

00:49:10.199 --> 00:49:12.559
we were team 36 for the organization we went

00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:15.159
through and we told team 37 to bring in baby

00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:19.159
formula And Team 37's baby formula all got confiscated.

00:49:20.199 --> 00:49:24.280
And I actually asked why to some of the physicians

00:49:24.280 --> 00:49:26.440
who were on that team. And they were told that

00:49:26.440 --> 00:49:29.760
it's too much and it has to go through the health

00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:33.940
ministry if it's that much. This is when literally

00:49:33.940 --> 00:49:37.139
we've seen the videos that the children are starving,

00:49:37.219 --> 00:49:39.639
infants are starving to death, and you are turning

00:49:39.639 --> 00:49:43.719
away baby formula. Yeah, it's not that I saw

00:49:43.719 --> 00:49:46.619
videos. I saw the baby starving. myself with

00:49:46.619 --> 00:49:51.300
my own eyes i even so us as team 36 we thought

00:49:51.300 --> 00:49:54.420
if there's one thing people will have humanity

00:49:54.420 --> 00:49:56.139
for no matter how much people hate each other

00:49:56.139 --> 00:49:59.460
it's babies right premature babies at that and

00:49:59.460 --> 00:50:03.300
incubators and so we went to the pediatric icu

00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:06.739
and talked to the local you know icu doctors

00:50:06.739 --> 00:50:09.159
and we're like okay we're gonna do this we're

00:50:09.159 --> 00:50:12.360
americans we speak english well we're gonna get

00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:15.849
baby formula into gaza And we did our best. You

00:50:15.849 --> 00:50:17.929
know, some media picked us up and I thank them

00:50:17.929 --> 00:50:20.909
for that. And we got a big social media push

00:50:20.909 --> 00:50:25.090
for Baby Formula. And then we were disheartened

00:50:25.090 --> 00:50:27.550
when we learned that Team 37's Baby Formula got

00:50:27.550 --> 00:50:30.309
confiscated. So that was pretty frustrating.

00:50:30.929 --> 00:50:32.909
So you're going there, as you mentioned, it was

00:50:32.909 --> 00:50:35.610
dark. You know, talk to me about what you saw,

00:50:35.750 --> 00:50:37.409
especially, you know, when the sun comes up as

00:50:37.409 --> 00:50:42.429
far as, you know, Gaza in June 2025. So as we

00:50:42.429 --> 00:50:45.989
enter Gaza. With our local Gazan bus driver,

00:50:46.250 --> 00:50:49.590
we drive away from these soldiers in this super

00:50:49.590 --> 00:50:52.309
militarized checkpoint that basically is this

00:50:52.309 --> 00:50:57.170
entry between two different worlds. On the back

00:50:57.170 --> 00:50:59.610
of us, we're leaving Israel. And in front of

00:50:59.610 --> 00:51:02.949
us is Gaza. And we all know what we're going

00:51:02.949 --> 00:51:05.630
to see, which is absolute destruction. Problem

00:51:05.630 --> 00:51:08.409
is it's so dark, it's really hard to see anything.

00:51:08.670 --> 00:51:10.730
So all we can really see is what the lights of

00:51:10.730 --> 00:51:16.019
the car illuminate. uh for it's dirt roads there's

00:51:16.019 --> 00:51:19.059
no asphalt anymore it's all been torn up by the

00:51:19.059 --> 00:51:21.960
tanks and whatnot um and as we're looking around

00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:23.619
we're really trying to see everything we can

00:51:23.619 --> 00:51:26.420
see our adrenaline's pumping and we just see

00:51:26.420 --> 00:51:29.440
you know rubble buildings destroyed neighborhoods

00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:32.280
demolished you can see almost like kids toys

00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:35.460
between floors of the the concrete just you know

00:51:35.460 --> 00:51:38.900
like a seesaw you know really colorful blue and

00:51:38.900 --> 00:51:42.019
red toys that are just like between the rubble

00:51:42.019 --> 00:51:45.400
um And we can't see it that well, but you can

00:51:45.400 --> 00:51:47.380
kind of see where it's making turns. And on the

00:51:47.380 --> 00:51:49.559
ground, there's like food. There's literally

00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:52.360
this like sacks of rice and flour that have been

00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:56.619
burst open. And so we asked our local Gazan driver,

00:51:56.739 --> 00:51:59.119
like, what is this? And it's like when the trucks

00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:01.400
come in, some of the food falls off and anyone

00:52:01.400 --> 00:52:04.980
who tries to get it will be shot. So these are

00:52:04.980 --> 00:52:08.159
what we call red zones that humans are not allowed

00:52:08.159 --> 00:52:11.340
to go in the red zone unless explicit permission

00:52:11.340 --> 00:52:14.500
has been given. by the Israeli military. So that's

00:52:14.500 --> 00:52:17.840
how we were able to travel on this road because

00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:20.420
we were waiting for the two hours to get a green

00:52:20.420 --> 00:52:24.659
light from the Israeli military to be done with

00:52:24.659 --> 00:52:26.840
their, whatever mission they were doing at that

00:52:26.840 --> 00:52:32.030
time. Was there any. the fear amongst you and

00:52:32.030 --> 00:52:34.030
the people that you're traveling with just based

00:52:34.030 --> 00:52:37.389
on the fact that, you know, the ethics didn't

00:52:37.389 --> 00:52:40.170
seem to be followed in so many cases. And we've

00:52:40.170 --> 00:52:41.610
obviously, you know, one of the big ones for

00:52:41.610 --> 00:52:44.150
us, my community was all those firefighters and

00:52:44.150 --> 00:52:47.070
paramedics that were executed not too long ago.

00:52:47.489 --> 00:52:50.170
You know, what was the fear mitigation? Because

00:52:50.170 --> 00:52:52.010
you're going on the trust that the Israelis are

00:52:52.010 --> 00:52:54.550
going to do the right thing at that point. Yeah.

00:52:54.630 --> 00:52:56.809
So again, there were six of us, four Americans

00:52:56.809 --> 00:52:59.829
and one Jordanian and one Algerian slash French.

00:53:00.949 --> 00:53:04.610
So I was the most optimistic, I would say. And

00:53:04.610 --> 00:53:06.409
I was like, they're not going to kill an American

00:53:06.409 --> 00:53:09.530
physician. It just, it would make zero sense

00:53:09.530 --> 00:53:11.429
for them to do that. And everyone else was more

00:53:11.429 --> 00:53:15.110
like kind of historic and realistic in that they're

00:53:15.110 --> 00:53:17.570
like, well, it's happened before the Al Jazeera

00:53:17.570 --> 00:53:20.280
American. A journalist was shot with a sniper.

00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:25.239
The World Food Program NGOs were targeted with

00:53:25.239 --> 00:53:28.659
the drone and they died. And, you know, there's

00:53:28.659 --> 00:53:30.460
been a lot of international people who have actually

00:53:30.460 --> 00:53:32.659
died. And there are always obviously some logistical

00:53:32.659 --> 00:53:35.199
mistake that comes out. So I was like, yeah,

00:53:35.239 --> 00:53:37.400
I mean, we could die with the mistake, I guess.

00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:40.380
um one of our colleagues he was going back and

00:53:40.380 --> 00:53:42.099
forth should he pay for like an extra life insurance

00:53:42.099 --> 00:53:44.480
policy which was like super expensive eventually

00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:46.380
we just convinced him to do it because he was

00:53:46.380 --> 00:53:51.159
he was talking about it for so long and um no

00:53:51.159 --> 00:53:53.400
but the fear was real uh i think i was just a

00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:56.400
little bit overly up like i was overly hopeful

00:53:56.400 --> 00:53:59.480
that nothing would happen so you're seeing guys

00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:01.360
are going to unfold through headlights you know

00:54:01.360 --> 00:54:03.900
what What was the difference the next day when

00:54:03.900 --> 00:54:06.059
you had daylight to kind of, you know, reveal

00:54:06.059 --> 00:54:10.900
the magnitude of it? Yeah, so the bus took us

00:54:10.900 --> 00:54:16.360
through the rubble, through the roads to a camp

00:54:16.360 --> 00:54:18.860
called Mawasi Refugee Camp. It's basically where

00:54:18.860 --> 00:54:20.780
one third of Gazans live. It's in Khan Yunus.

00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:23.179
And the hospital nearby is called Nasser Hospital.

00:54:23.300 --> 00:54:25.000
So we weren't allowed to go straight to the hospital.

00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:28.840
We went to a safe house with our NGO. And again,

00:54:28.900 --> 00:54:30.400
it's nighttime. We can't see anything. So we

00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:32.789
were dead tired. So we went upstairs into the

00:54:32.789 --> 00:54:35.489
apartment. They gave us some food. They apologized

00:54:35.489 --> 00:54:38.989
for not having their genuine, authentic cuisine.

00:54:39.329 --> 00:54:42.010
They basically just gave us hummus and pita bread.

00:54:42.710 --> 00:54:45.949
And it was so good, you know, just having absolutely

00:54:45.949 --> 00:54:48.670
nothing. That was so delicious. We went to sleep.

00:54:48.750 --> 00:54:50.929
We woke up around sunrise and then we looked

00:54:50.929 --> 00:54:54.170
out the balcony. And it's just tense as far as

00:54:54.170 --> 00:54:56.989
you can see until the ocean, you know, the Mediterranean.

00:54:57.929 --> 00:54:59.690
You look left, there's tents. You look right,

00:54:59.710 --> 00:55:00.929
there's tents. You look forward, there's tents

00:55:00.929 --> 00:55:04.110
up to the sea. You see some kites in the air,

00:55:04.150 --> 00:55:06.750
and that really surprised me. Kids are going

00:55:06.750 --> 00:55:08.250
to be kids. They're going to always try to have

00:55:08.250 --> 00:55:10.849
fun. I thought that was kind of beautiful. I

00:55:10.849 --> 00:55:12.730
look down, and that's the main road, which is

00:55:12.730 --> 00:55:14.690
basically a dirt road. There's donkeys pulling

00:55:14.690 --> 00:55:19.710
equipment here and there. There's cars, but some

00:55:19.710 --> 00:55:21.070
of the cars are not working, so the people are

00:55:21.070 --> 00:55:25.590
pushing the cars. Yeah, you just see people kind

00:55:25.590 --> 00:55:28.440
of waking up. and looking for something to do

00:55:28.440 --> 00:55:31.860
you know some people are going to work at the

00:55:31.860 --> 00:55:33.719
hospital which is pretty much the only work left

00:55:33.719 --> 00:55:35.739
everything else i feel like it's like almost

00:55:35.739 --> 00:55:40.760
volunteering trying to clean up so yeah the scene

00:55:40.760 --> 00:55:44.980
um the scene was really amazing i hate to use

00:55:44.980 --> 00:55:49.000
that word uh as an american who's never done

00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:51.639
a medical mission before was never really seen

00:55:51.639 --> 00:55:56.940
this kind of destruction It was truly eye -opening,

00:55:57.039 --> 00:55:59.579
and it took me a little bit to understand what

00:55:59.579 --> 00:56:02.360
was actually happening. And in the distance,

00:56:02.500 --> 00:56:05.300
as we're looking out, still sunrise, you kind

00:56:05.300 --> 00:56:08.519
of hear bombs in the distance about every 30

00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:11.199
minutes. It was very odd, you know, it was very

00:56:11.199 --> 00:56:16.940
odd just not knowing what that meant. And that's

00:56:16.940 --> 00:56:20.880
my first time ever hearing a bomb. They had talked

00:56:20.880 --> 00:56:23.679
about the systematic demolition. And you said

00:56:23.679 --> 00:56:25.280
about the roads, for example, there's videos

00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:27.699
of, you know, them literally being dug up to

00:56:27.699 --> 00:56:29.800
remove the infrastructure. We know that, you

00:56:29.800 --> 00:56:32.099
know, hospitals are targeted, schools are targeted,

00:56:32.179 --> 00:56:33.599
you know, which again, when you're looking at

00:56:33.599 --> 00:56:36.699
the Geneva conference, convention, you know,

00:56:36.719 --> 00:56:40.380
is completely against all ethics anyway. You've

00:56:40.380 --> 00:56:43.599
got this massive tents, you know, were you able

00:56:43.599 --> 00:56:46.239
to see that just, you know, the absolute destruction

00:56:46.239 --> 00:56:51.150
of the Gazan city itself? There was no city.

00:56:51.409 --> 00:56:54.449
That's what was sad for me. I wanted to see what

00:56:54.449 --> 00:56:56.829
the Gazans lived like before. And if you look

00:56:56.829 --> 00:56:58.449
at pictures, it looks like any other American

00:56:58.449 --> 00:57:00.070
city. There's buildings, there's roads, there's

00:57:00.070 --> 00:57:04.110
flowers, there's architecture, there's restaurants,

00:57:04.530 --> 00:57:07.050
there's shawarma shops. You look at those pictures,

00:57:07.130 --> 00:57:09.409
there's mosques, there's churches. And then you

00:57:09.409 --> 00:57:11.750
look at outside the balcony, it's just tents,

00:57:11.989 --> 00:57:15.090
tarps. And I'm not talking about tents that you

00:57:15.090 --> 00:57:17.309
get from Costco or one of these fancy tents.

00:57:17.389 --> 00:57:20.519
You're talking about just... four sticks, four

00:57:20.519 --> 00:57:23.000
metal poles, and then some sort of a sheet that

00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:25.719
connects them. And the only thing between your

00:57:25.719 --> 00:57:29.500
neighbor and your family is the same sheet that

00:57:29.500 --> 00:57:32.420
belongs to you and them. It's not even two sheets,

00:57:32.460 --> 00:57:35.579
it's one sheet. And I just realized like, holy

00:57:35.579 --> 00:57:39.039
moly, I can't comprehend this. I know this in

00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:41.139
my head that third world countries are third

00:57:41.139 --> 00:57:44.860
world countries, but this was just hard to swallow.

00:57:45.739 --> 00:57:48.559
and know that people were being killed even in

00:57:48.559 --> 00:57:51.059
these tents, which is a green zone. You know,

00:57:51.079 --> 00:57:52.800
there's not supposed to be any killing in the

00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:55.239
green zone. One of the things that really stuck

00:57:55.239 --> 00:57:58.300
out when Thera spoke the first time was he went

00:57:58.300 --> 00:58:01.739
to Jerusalem first. And he said there he saw,

00:58:01.780 --> 00:58:03.980
you know, Jews and Muslims and Christians all

00:58:03.980 --> 00:58:06.639
praying side by side. And he said everyone was

00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:09.000
getting on. And then you go through these massive

00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:11.280
checkpoints at the time. And, you know, I think

00:58:11.280 --> 00:58:13.239
it was Rapha that he went when he was there.

00:58:13.690 --> 00:58:15.429
And he said, you know, it was a completely different

00:58:15.429 --> 00:58:18.829
world. And that's what's so mind blowing is that,

00:58:18.829 --> 00:58:21.929
you know, that humanity existed outside of these

00:58:21.929 --> 00:58:24.670
gates. And then, you know, here you have these

00:58:24.670 --> 00:58:27.269
Palestinian people that are just being, you know,

00:58:27.289 --> 00:58:29.409
eradicated their homes, everything. It's kind

00:58:29.409 --> 00:58:31.610
of like the some of the World War Two stories.

00:58:31.630 --> 00:58:34.650
And when the most recent book I wrote, there

00:58:34.650 --> 00:58:37.800
are examples where they literally killed. Every

00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:40.760
man, woman, child demolished all the houses and

00:58:40.760 --> 00:58:43.340
even rerouted the river that used to go through

00:58:43.340 --> 00:58:47.280
the town to remove any essence of that. And that

00:58:47.280 --> 00:58:53.199
seems exactly what's going on here. Wow. Yeah,

00:58:53.280 --> 00:58:56.780
I mean, that's the scary thing is that history

00:58:56.780 --> 00:58:59.639
repeats itself. And I think I heard someone saying

00:58:59.639 --> 00:59:02.599
something that really stuck with me that one

00:59:02.599 --> 00:59:05.099
thing we learn from history is that we don't

00:59:05.099 --> 00:59:09.460
learn from history. Absolutely. I think this

00:59:09.460 --> 00:59:10.980
is the thing. Even if you look, let's go back

00:59:10.980 --> 00:59:13.820
to our country for a second. The deliberate division,

00:59:14.099 --> 00:59:18.099
the deliberate fear mongering, the removal of

00:59:18.099 --> 00:59:20.920
books, all these kind of things, it's lending

00:59:20.920 --> 00:59:24.500
to that. And the reason behind all the atrocities

00:59:24.500 --> 00:59:28.079
in history is a small group of people that crave

00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:32.429
power and money. That's it. slavery, you know,

00:59:32.449 --> 00:59:34.670
you name it. Any horrible thing that's happened

00:59:34.670 --> 00:59:37.369
in our history hasn't been an entire country

00:59:37.369 --> 00:59:39.670
saying, oh, we're all on board with this. It

00:59:39.670 --> 00:59:42.829
starts with a few horrendous human beings. And

00:59:42.829 --> 00:59:45.690
then you add apathy in and fear mongering. And

00:59:45.690 --> 00:59:47.909
all of a sudden, you know, this is allowed to

00:59:47.909 --> 00:59:50.949
happen. And here we are again in 2025, you know,

00:59:50.949 --> 00:59:54.150
only 80 years after, you know, for example, we

00:59:54.150 --> 00:59:55.849
dropped the bomb on Hiroshima, which is another

00:59:55.849 --> 00:59:59.170
horrendous event. So we are not learning. And

00:59:59.170 --> 01:00:01.969
then when these things are happening, we're not

01:00:01.969 --> 01:00:04.250
just not learning, we're turning our head, which

01:00:04.250 --> 01:00:08.889
is even more disgusting. You know, I think yourself,

01:00:09.250 --> 01:00:13.829
James, and probably many of the soldiers, the

01:00:13.829 --> 01:00:16.630
Marines, the firefighters, the police officers

01:00:16.630 --> 01:00:18.809
that you've interviewed, and many of your other

01:00:18.809 --> 01:00:21.829
guests probably are the type that if they see

01:00:21.829 --> 01:00:23.250
an injustice happening on the street, they're

01:00:23.250 --> 01:00:26.170
going to step up. But majority of the population

01:00:26.170 --> 01:00:28.349
is just going to walk right by. And there's a

01:00:28.349 --> 01:00:30.610
phenomenon where the more people watching an

01:00:30.610 --> 01:00:33.869
incident, the less likely an individual is actually

01:00:33.869 --> 01:00:35.789
to help if there's like someone dying on the

01:00:35.789 --> 01:00:38.570
street in the park, you know. And so that's kind

01:00:38.570 --> 01:00:40.929
of how I feel like the world. Everyone knows

01:00:40.929 --> 01:00:44.130
what's going on. But very few people are actually

01:00:44.130 --> 01:00:46.630
willing to step up to the plate, talk about it,

01:00:46.710 --> 01:00:51.000
you know, do something. And I feel like that's

01:00:51.000 --> 01:00:53.400
where we are in this world. Not just with the

01:00:53.400 --> 01:00:55.800
Israel Gaza conflict, but everywhere. Within

01:00:55.800 --> 01:00:59.760
it's in our own backyard. I feel like there's

01:00:59.760 --> 01:01:02.500
so many differences within people nowadays. But

01:01:02.500 --> 01:01:04.179
I still hold on to my old school principles.

01:01:04.400 --> 01:01:05.800
If there's something wrong with someone, I'm

01:01:05.800 --> 01:01:08.320
going to help them up. And I feel like that's

01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:11.460
so basic. That should be our baseline humanity.

01:01:12.440 --> 01:01:15.019
Absolutely. Well, you talked about seeing kind

01:01:15.019 --> 01:01:18.039
of like the 10 ,000 foot view as far as the sprawling

01:01:18.039 --> 01:01:20.960
tents. Let's talk about the people now. What

01:01:20.960 --> 01:01:23.239
did you start seeing, you know, when you started

01:01:23.239 --> 01:01:26.099
treating people? And then let's talk about the

01:01:26.099 --> 01:01:28.780
starvation that's going on as well. Yeah, so

01:01:28.780 --> 01:01:31.260
we got to that, you know, after sunrise, we ate

01:01:31.260 --> 01:01:33.619
breakfast. Again, they fed us food that they

01:01:33.619 --> 01:01:36.159
don't have. Like they actually just sacrificed

01:01:36.159 --> 01:01:39.219
their meals for us, you know. And we didn't really

01:01:39.219 --> 01:01:43.039
comprehend the situation on the ground that first.

01:01:43.449 --> 01:01:45.429
few hours. In retrospect, I wouldn't have eaten.

01:01:46.449 --> 01:01:48.849
So we got to the hospital in the morning and

01:01:48.849 --> 01:01:51.750
they're giving us a tour, kind of explaining

01:01:51.750 --> 01:01:53.150
where we're going to stay. We're going to stay

01:01:53.150 --> 01:01:55.469
in the call room for the next two weeks. There's

01:01:55.469 --> 01:01:56.969
a guy's sleeping area. There's a woman's sleeping

01:01:56.969 --> 01:01:59.329
area. There's a common area. We get food. We

01:01:59.329 --> 01:02:00.869
can hang out. We can watch some TV. There's a

01:02:00.869 --> 01:02:03.610
balcony that kind of has a nice view of everything

01:02:03.610 --> 01:02:07.630
going on outside. And, you know, then we got,

01:02:07.670 --> 01:02:09.949
we introduced ourselves to the local doctors

01:02:09.949 --> 01:02:12.530
and we find out what we can help, where we can.

01:02:12.940 --> 01:02:15.400
involve ourselves. And one thing I realized is

01:02:15.400 --> 01:02:18.519
the doctors there are so tired. They themselves

01:02:18.519 --> 01:02:20.179
don't have anything to eat. The responsibilities

01:02:20.179 --> 01:02:23.719
are so intense. It's not just taking care of

01:02:23.719 --> 01:02:25.059
your patients. Right after you take care of your

01:02:25.059 --> 01:02:27.300
patients and you go home, you're going home to

01:02:27.300 --> 01:02:31.079
a tent. And it's your responsibility as a man

01:02:31.079 --> 01:02:35.699
to go find food. And then it's your responsibility

01:02:35.699 --> 01:02:38.000
as a man to find some firewood so that you can

01:02:38.000 --> 01:02:39.900
go home and your wife can make some food for

01:02:39.900 --> 01:02:43.110
the family and kids. And so... In the next morning,

01:02:43.170 --> 01:02:45.489
you brush off the sand off your head, your hair,

01:02:45.650 --> 01:02:48.750
your clothes, and wear the clothes that were

01:02:48.750 --> 01:02:52.250
drying on some line on the tent, and then come

01:02:52.250 --> 01:02:54.570
back to work and rinse and repeat every single

01:02:54.570 --> 01:02:58.210
day. And work there is so much more intense than

01:02:58.210 --> 01:03:01.210
what we know as work. For example, in the ER,

01:03:01.389 --> 01:03:04.989
some of our local ER doctors that came with us,

01:03:05.070 --> 01:03:06.269
they were like, oh, we're going to do eight or

01:03:06.269 --> 01:03:09.460
12 -hour shifts, right? Oh, we'll do... 12 hours

01:03:09.460 --> 01:03:11.079
on, 12 hours off. That's kind of the standard

01:03:11.079 --> 01:03:13.760
here. The local just laughed. They're like, you

01:03:13.760 --> 01:03:17.280
won't last four hours. It was almost like, okay,

01:03:17.400 --> 01:03:19.880
let's challenge this, right? We have this like

01:03:19.880 --> 01:03:21.760
American mentality where we can work our butts

01:03:21.760 --> 01:03:26.179
off. And so, yeah, it was true. The intensity

01:03:26.179 --> 01:03:30.599
of the trauma was just too much. Physically too

01:03:30.599 --> 01:03:33.679
much, mentally too much, emotionally too much.

01:03:33.679 --> 01:03:37.800
It was awful. And the only way I can describe

01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:41.070
it to you, is take the worst trauma center in

01:03:41.070 --> 01:03:44.750
America in terms of the sheer volume of patients

01:03:44.750 --> 01:03:48.610
and then multiply that by like 100. And I mean

01:03:48.610 --> 01:03:50.909
that. I mean like literally multiply that by

01:03:50.909 --> 01:03:54.349
100 in terms of the patients coming in. In America,

01:03:54.369 --> 01:03:56.369
we have our mass shootings here and there, and

01:03:56.369 --> 01:04:02.769
it does happen, but not every day. And that's

01:04:02.769 --> 01:04:06.300
where it just takes this. mental toll that makes

01:04:06.300 --> 01:04:09.340
no sense. And so, you know, it's Saturday, Sunday

01:04:09.340 --> 01:04:11.380
is the day one and day two that we're there.

01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:17.079
The fire alarm goes off in the ER. And that's

01:04:17.079 --> 01:04:19.300
our first experience, what we call them MCI,

01:04:19.320 --> 01:04:21.880
mass casualty incident. And it basically is just

01:04:21.880 --> 01:04:25.000
a, it tells everyone in the hospital, hey, any

01:04:25.000 --> 01:04:26.860
physician who's available, come down to the emergency

01:04:26.860 --> 01:04:30.460
room. There's a mass casualty event and we need

01:04:30.460 --> 01:04:33.500
all the help we can get. So we go down there

01:04:33.500 --> 01:04:36.539
not knowing what to expect, and there's already

01:04:36.539 --> 01:04:41.820
just hundreds of patients littered on the grounds.

01:04:42.019 --> 01:04:45.679
And I'm not even exaggerating. You can go on

01:04:45.679 --> 01:04:48.139
social media and search Nassar Hospital MCI,

01:04:48.159 --> 01:04:49.800
and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:52.460
There's not even a place to put your foot between

01:04:52.460 --> 01:04:55.219
patients without your boot or your shoe getting

01:04:55.219 --> 01:04:59.139
bloody. And your family member is just in chaos

01:04:59.139 --> 01:05:01.099
trying to figure out. where their family members

01:05:01.099 --> 01:05:03.380
are, where their children are. You have doctors

01:05:03.380 --> 01:05:05.460
trying to figure out, you know, which patient

01:05:05.460 --> 01:05:09.280
to see next. And it's just like, there's no,

01:05:09.480 --> 01:05:15.059
you know, there's no like way to understand what

01:05:15.059 --> 01:05:17.800
you're supposed to do. So you just go down to

01:05:17.800 --> 01:05:19.820
a patient, you see if their heart's beating,

01:05:20.039 --> 01:05:22.480
you see if they're breathing, you move on to

01:05:22.480 --> 01:05:25.380
the next patient. And it's just this assembly

01:05:25.380 --> 01:05:27.639
line. And that goes on for about four hours.

01:05:27.880 --> 01:05:31.400
Okay. And at the end of that four hours, you

01:05:31.400 --> 01:05:33.079
just want nothing to do with medicine anymore.

01:05:33.579 --> 01:05:37.619
You just want to like sit back and just look

01:05:37.619 --> 01:05:40.880
at the sky, take a deep breath and wonder what

01:05:40.880 --> 01:05:43.619
the hell's going on here. Well, I think that's

01:05:43.619 --> 01:05:45.179
the thing, you know, with my profession, with

01:05:45.179 --> 01:05:47.980
your profession, if we have some massive event

01:05:47.980 --> 01:05:51.280
like that, yes, the initial hospital, the initial

01:05:51.280 --> 01:05:53.739
responders, you know, are going to be overwhelmed

01:05:53.739 --> 01:05:56.610
for a bit. but there are more people coming,

01:05:56.690 --> 01:05:58.829
local departments, other hospitals, you know,

01:05:58.849 --> 01:06:01.230
the military, you know, the federal response.

01:06:01.670 --> 01:06:04.309
But in this case, none of those people are allowed

01:06:04.309 --> 01:06:07.150
in. So, you know, the people that you're working

01:06:07.150 --> 01:06:08.690
alongside, and please correct me if I'm wrong,

01:06:08.789 --> 01:06:10.730
those are the only people that are there to treat

01:06:10.730 --> 01:06:14.210
people. Yeah, we are not, we didn't go there

01:06:14.210 --> 01:06:16.489
to say we're better physicians. We went there

01:06:16.489 --> 01:06:19.889
to give the few physicians who are there some

01:06:19.889 --> 01:06:23.130
respite, some relief. Like you said, because

01:06:23.130 --> 01:06:27.409
no one's coming to relieve them. There's no special

01:06:27.409 --> 01:06:30.949
forces. There's no backup units. There's no on

01:06:30.949 --> 01:06:32.670
-call physician that's going to save the day.

01:06:32.730 --> 01:06:35.110
It's them. They have to work their shift without

01:06:35.110 --> 01:06:39.010
food, without clean drinking water. There's no

01:06:39.010 --> 01:06:41.929
AC in there in summertime. You're sweating your

01:06:41.929 --> 01:06:48.429
butt off. It's awful. And we were lucky in that

01:06:48.429 --> 01:06:51.599
we had our snacks. in our bags upstairs so we

01:06:51.599 --> 01:06:53.079
can just go and take a break if we wanted to,

01:06:53.159 --> 01:06:56.239
right? But the locals didn't have that. What

01:06:56.239 --> 01:06:58.860
about the spectrum of patients that you were

01:06:58.860 --> 01:07:00.860
getting? Again, the message we've had for a long

01:07:00.860 --> 01:07:03.460
time is, oh, this was a Hamas, you know, combatant,

01:07:03.460 --> 01:07:05.579
Hamas combatant, but that doesn't seem to match

01:07:05.579 --> 01:07:08.019
the videos that were, you know, coming out. So

01:07:08.019 --> 01:07:10.699
you had a perfect, you know, boots on the ground

01:07:10.699 --> 01:07:13.199
perspective. Were these military age men only

01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:16.000
coming through or was it a spectrum of ages and

01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:19.480
sexes? Yeah, so I always wonder how to answer

01:07:19.480 --> 01:07:21.900
this. So first of all, we saw zero combatants.

01:07:22.440 --> 01:07:24.880
I don't even know how you would define a combatant.

01:07:24.900 --> 01:07:29.920
Are they wearing military relief gear? Do they

01:07:29.920 --> 01:07:32.039
come in with a weapon? Do they come in with a

01:07:32.039 --> 01:07:34.539
knife? Like what defines a combatant, right?

01:07:34.719 --> 01:07:37.940
And then number two is everyone we talked to

01:07:37.940 --> 01:07:42.539
was coming from the aid sites, the Gaza Humanitarian

01:07:42.539 --> 01:07:46.099
Foundation, GHF aid sites. And that's where majority...

01:07:46.489 --> 01:07:49.150
of these mass trauma incidents were coming from.

01:07:49.250 --> 01:07:52.150
And then outside of that, we were seeing patients

01:07:52.150 --> 01:07:55.889
who were being shot getting water, who were being

01:07:55.889 --> 01:07:58.670
shot getting, sitting in their tents by quadcopters.

01:07:58.909 --> 01:08:04.190
So back to your question, I don't know how to

01:08:04.190 --> 01:08:06.769
answer from a legitimately point of view, how

01:08:06.769 --> 01:08:09.130
do I answer that question that was this patient

01:08:09.130 --> 01:08:13.409
a Hamas person? I have no idea. How would I know,

01:08:13.489 --> 01:08:17.960
right? But no, there was no indication of combatants

01:08:17.960 --> 01:08:20.039
of Hamas in the hospital. Well, I think I guess

01:08:20.039 --> 01:08:22.260
the other side of that question, the reason I'm

01:08:22.260 --> 01:08:24.500
asking that is from the videos, we're seeing

01:08:24.500 --> 01:08:26.739
infants, we're seeing toddlers, we're seeing

01:08:26.739 --> 01:08:30.279
elementary school ages, we're seeing elderly

01:08:30.279 --> 01:08:32.979
women. So you're telling me that all those were

01:08:32.979 --> 01:08:36.180
members of Hamas. Like, of course, if there is

01:08:36.180 --> 01:08:38.899
a resistance, there are going to be people amongst

01:08:38.899 --> 01:08:41.420
that that may be part of that. But if you're

01:08:41.420 --> 01:08:44.479
talking about over 20 ,000 children now. How

01:08:44.479 --> 01:08:46.960
can you turn around and say, oh, but Hamas? Like,

01:08:47.000 --> 01:08:49.180
no, there's a certain point. So that's, you know,

01:08:49.220 --> 01:08:51.039
that's from the boots on the ground as far as

01:08:51.039 --> 01:08:53.340
I'm not talking about some of the men. But I

01:08:53.340 --> 01:08:56.300
mean, you know, were you seeing all this, you

01:08:56.300 --> 01:08:58.300
know, these innocent civilians? And I would argue

01:08:58.300 --> 01:09:01.340
at least no one can argue that a young child

01:09:01.340 --> 01:09:03.520
and maybe an elderly woman is not going to be

01:09:03.520 --> 01:09:07.220
a Hamas combatant. So that alone, you know, debunks

01:09:07.220 --> 01:09:11.760
that whole myth. So I would say, let's just say,

01:09:11.779 --> 01:09:14.819
for example, one of the MCIs, 400 patients came

01:09:14.819 --> 01:09:17.880
in over that course of that MCI. I would say

01:09:17.880 --> 01:09:24.239
15 % approximately were children, 15 % women,

01:09:25.640 --> 01:09:29.880
15 % women, I mean, sorry, elderly, and then

01:09:29.880 --> 01:09:33.619
the rest of the 55 % men. Okay, now within the

01:09:33.619 --> 01:09:37.119
men, you have very young men, and then you have

01:09:37.119 --> 01:09:40.189
elderly men, right? and that's the thing i don't

01:09:40.189 --> 01:09:43.350
want to say that i feel like our western populations

01:09:43.350 --> 01:09:46.069
our western colleagues might think oh man they

01:09:46.069 --> 01:09:48.170
might be hamas you know but dude these these

01:09:48.170 --> 01:09:49.590
guys were just getting food for their families

01:09:49.590 --> 01:09:52.329
if you were in if you were in gaza you would

01:09:52.329 --> 01:09:54.329
be getting the aid you're the strongest male

01:09:54.329 --> 01:09:56.689
of the family you are going to walk 10 kilometers

01:09:56.689 --> 01:09:58.630
to the aid site and you're going to take that

01:09:58.630 --> 01:10:01.770
25 kilogram bag which is 55 60 pounds put it

01:10:01.770 --> 01:10:04.710
on your shoulder walk another 10 kilometers back

01:10:04.710 --> 01:10:06.390
you're the young man of the family you're going

01:10:06.390 --> 01:10:09.329
to do that right so i feel like it doesn't we

01:10:09.329 --> 01:10:11.989
don't do it justice just by saying children and

01:10:11.989 --> 01:10:13.890
women and elderly because guess what the men

01:10:13.890 --> 01:10:15.989
are all just men like you and me just trying

01:10:15.989 --> 01:10:18.750
to make a living they're trying to survive they're

01:10:18.750 --> 01:10:20.250
trying to feed their families we can't just all

01:10:20.250 --> 01:10:24.369
lump them as possible compatents and as a statement

01:10:24.369 --> 01:10:26.109
like that so that's what kind of bothers me when

01:10:26.109 --> 01:10:30.170
people kind of even ignore the men because they

01:10:30.170 --> 01:10:33.569
were the ones 55 of the er was loaded with young

01:10:33.569 --> 01:10:35.550
men trying to get food for their families and

01:10:35.550 --> 01:10:38.409
we say oh but you know they're not as innocent

01:10:38.409 --> 01:10:40.569
as the children or they're not as innocent as

01:10:40.569 --> 01:10:42.909
a woman and elderly you know yeah and i agree

01:10:42.909 --> 01:10:45.210
i think the example again would be let's go back

01:10:45.210 --> 01:10:47.729
to belfast you know we're flattening the entire

01:10:47.729 --> 01:10:50.310
city well that's the mechanics and the doctors

01:10:50.310 --> 01:10:52.109
and the accountants and the teachers and the

01:10:52.109 --> 01:10:54.369
firefighters and the police officers none of

01:10:54.369 --> 01:10:58.329
whom are ira members so i agree 100 but for me

01:10:58.329 --> 01:11:01.069
it's like even if you pretended that every single

01:11:01.069 --> 01:11:04.310
you know military age male was hamas which it

01:11:04.310 --> 01:11:08.270
makes no sense whatsoever it still doesn't excuse

01:11:08.270 --> 01:11:11.350
all the other things. So to say, oh, it's because

01:11:11.350 --> 01:11:13.390
of this, it's like, there's no way. That does

01:11:13.390 --> 01:11:15.550
not make any sense. Of course, there are resistance

01:11:15.550 --> 01:11:18.430
fighters. Of course, some horrible things are

01:11:18.430 --> 01:11:22.010
done by Hamas as well. War is disgusting. And

01:11:22.010 --> 01:11:24.909
like I said, I experienced that, not personally,

01:11:24.989 --> 01:11:28.479
but... on you know my homeland when i was growing

01:11:28.479 --> 01:11:31.039
up as a young boy and the irish people experienced

01:11:31.039 --> 01:11:34.340
horrible things on their side too so i think

01:11:34.340 --> 01:11:36.439
it's just more to make the point that you know

01:11:36.439 --> 01:11:38.119
i think you it's great that you've underlined

01:11:38.119 --> 01:11:40.479
that because this this is the reality that of

01:11:40.479 --> 01:11:43.020
all those men you know most of whom are just

01:11:43.020 --> 01:11:45.500
trying to simply you know keep that roof over

01:11:45.500 --> 01:11:47.880
their head and try and forage for some food for

01:11:47.880 --> 01:11:51.659
their family i can't tell you how many young

01:11:51.659 --> 01:11:54.630
men came in with their family members, and they

01:11:54.630 --> 01:11:57.369
stopped when they saw us American doctors. And

01:11:57.369 --> 01:11:59.649
they're like, oh, can we have a selfie? And then

01:11:59.649 --> 01:12:01.550
we asked them, like, where are you coming from?

01:12:01.689 --> 01:12:04.189
And they say, oh, the GHF aid sites. And, you

01:12:04.189 --> 01:12:05.789
know, in my head, I'm like, oh, I wonder if he's

01:12:05.789 --> 01:12:08.010
telling the truth or not. So I asked them straight

01:12:08.010 --> 01:12:09.649
up. I was like, dude, do you have any pictures

01:12:09.649 --> 01:12:11.550
of while you were there? Yeah, and a lot of them

01:12:11.550 --> 01:12:13.569
took selfies with the American soldiers, the

01:12:13.569 --> 01:12:16.529
mercenaries. And I was like, dude, isn't that

01:12:16.529 --> 01:12:18.430
dangerous? They're like, oh, it's dangerous if

01:12:18.430 --> 01:12:21.029
you do it with the Israeli army, but the Americans

01:12:21.029 --> 01:12:23.189
are pretty cool about it. so i thought that was

01:12:23.189 --> 01:12:25.310
really interesting in in some of them i even

01:12:25.310 --> 01:12:28.869
keep in touch with today and uh to me that was

01:12:28.869 --> 01:12:31.310
just proof they're just normal dudes uh trying

01:12:31.310 --> 01:12:33.050
to bring food home to their family and they're

01:12:33.050 --> 01:12:34.430
at the hospital because one of their loved ones

01:12:34.430 --> 01:12:37.510
just died you know um yeah but you know i actually

01:12:37.510 --> 01:12:39.909
asked a lot of people on the ground they told

01:12:39.909 --> 01:12:41.529
us not to talk about politics while we were there

01:12:41.529 --> 01:12:43.869
but i just couldn't help myself but i asked a

01:12:43.869 --> 01:12:46.210
lot of the people i was like you know what is

01:12:46.210 --> 01:12:48.149
the story with hamas like what is your opinion

01:12:48.149 --> 01:12:51.090
and i got i'll tell you i just like in america

01:12:51.090 --> 01:12:54.229
if you asked you know, some political question

01:12:54.229 --> 01:12:55.930
in America, you're going to get an answer, a

01:12:55.930 --> 01:12:58.029
different answer from everyone, right? So similar

01:12:58.029 --> 01:12:59.489
to there, I got a different answer from everyone.

01:12:59.550 --> 01:13:01.529
Some people absolutely hated them. Some people

01:13:01.529 --> 01:13:03.409
said that what happened October 7th was the wrong

01:13:03.409 --> 01:13:05.569
decision. Some people said they're going to support

01:13:05.569 --> 01:13:08.189
them through and through. Some people said that,

01:13:08.229 --> 01:13:10.050
you know, it was inevitable. It had to happen

01:13:10.050 --> 01:13:12.010
at some point anyway. So it just happens to happen.

01:13:12.069 --> 01:13:15.170
It happens during our lifetime. I mean, you got

01:13:15.170 --> 01:13:16.710
every answer. And I thought that was kind of

01:13:16.710 --> 01:13:18.750
interesting just to see what the local population

01:13:18.750 --> 01:13:22.949
thought. And I think at this point, people actually

01:13:22.949 --> 01:13:28.470
support them as a resistance more than anything,

01:13:28.670 --> 01:13:31.470
just because they basically have no more hope.

01:13:31.630 --> 01:13:34.489
They're like, well, we might as well die trying,

01:13:34.649 --> 01:13:37.010
die resisting. We're all going to die anyways.

01:13:37.289 --> 01:13:39.909
And I can get into that, but I would say 100

01:13:39.909 --> 01:13:43.449
% of the population there is depressed. Majority

01:13:43.449 --> 01:13:46.229
are probably suicidal. And I've talked to many

01:13:46.229 --> 01:13:49.189
healthcare workers there who actively told me

01:13:49.189 --> 01:13:51.939
they're suicidal. very private conversations

01:13:51.939 --> 01:13:55.260
and uh but they follow their faith to the to

01:13:55.260 --> 01:13:56.760
the level that they would never commit suicide

01:13:56.760 --> 01:14:02.460
but they have thought of ways they can you know

01:14:02.460 --> 01:14:04.619
increase their chances of death and you know

01:14:04.619 --> 01:14:07.640
what the answer was it was to go to the aid sites

01:14:07.640 --> 01:14:10.159
to try to get food if you got the food great

01:14:10.159 --> 01:14:12.640
you get to bring back food to your family but

01:14:12.640 --> 01:14:16.399
if you die it's almost like a suicide in a way

01:14:16.399 --> 01:14:21.020
you know so let's talk about the starvation first

01:14:21.020 --> 01:14:23.399
and i obviously i really want to get to the you

01:14:23.399 --> 01:14:25.199
know the atrocities that are happening in what's

01:14:25.199 --> 01:14:27.359
supposed to be a safe zone for the civilians

01:14:27.359 --> 01:14:31.220
to find their food um as you mentioned june was

01:14:31.220 --> 01:14:34.100
kind of the beginning so obviously you know with

01:14:34.100 --> 01:14:36.380
your journey through medicine you know what a

01:14:36.380 --> 01:14:39.479
healthy child you know man woman etc looks like

01:14:39.479 --> 01:14:41.520
and you know you know malnutrition for example

01:14:41.520 --> 01:14:44.420
what were you seeing at that point with your

01:14:44.420 --> 01:14:49.109
own eyes so I have to back up a little bit. So

01:14:49.109 --> 01:14:51.710
it didn't start in June. I would say it mostly

01:14:51.710 --> 01:14:54.449
started in March. And that's when the GHF took

01:14:54.449 --> 01:14:56.970
over from the UN agencies that were essentially

01:14:56.970 --> 01:14:59.189
banned. You know, they've been providing aid

01:14:59.189 --> 01:15:02.710
in third world countries for decades since World

01:15:02.710 --> 01:15:06.170
War II, basically. And in Israel, they've been,

01:15:06.170 --> 01:15:08.210
I mean, in Gaza specifically by Israel, they've

01:15:08.210 --> 01:15:11.189
been banned. And this new distribution scheme

01:15:11.189 --> 01:15:14.329
headed by private military contractors called

01:15:14.329 --> 01:15:16.989
the GHF. It's a joint venture between Israel

01:15:16.989 --> 01:15:20.710
and America with our tax dollars helping prop

01:15:20.710 --> 01:15:24.949
this up. You know, this is the this is the aid

01:15:24.949 --> 01:15:26.789
distribution mechanism that has been established

01:15:26.789 --> 01:15:29.649
in March. Now, it's not bringing enough in a

01:15:29.649 --> 01:15:34.109
food and it's feeding a very select population.

01:15:34.630 --> 01:15:37.090
Basically, the healthiest men who can get there,

01:15:37.170 --> 01:15:39.970
who can walk eight to 10 kilometers and back.

01:15:40.850 --> 01:15:43.609
Right. And maybe, for example, I don't know the

01:15:43.609 --> 01:15:46.229
exact ratio, but it's. Like imagine 10 ,000 people

01:15:46.229 --> 01:15:47.970
trying to get food for, and there's only a thousand

01:15:47.970 --> 01:15:49.850
boxes, right? So there's just not enough food

01:15:49.850 --> 01:15:51.890
to feed even all the people that are coming there.

01:15:52.270 --> 01:15:54.449
And there's only three or four aid distributions

01:15:54.449 --> 01:15:57.529
in all of Gaza. And prior to that, there was

01:15:57.529 --> 01:16:01.210
about 400 UN aid distribution sites. So we're

01:16:01.210 --> 01:16:04.489
talking about just impossibility. Now, to answer

01:16:04.489 --> 01:16:06.569
your question, starvation doesn't happen overnight.

01:16:06.729 --> 01:16:08.949
You probably know this because you've probably

01:16:08.949 --> 01:16:11.409
been through survival training as a firefighter,

01:16:11.409 --> 01:16:15.000
but you can... You can't live without water very

01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:17.979
long. Maybe a few days to weeks at max, you know.

01:16:18.300 --> 01:16:21.479
But food, you can live pretty long without food.

01:16:21.699 --> 01:16:24.159
I'm not saying it's healthy. But you can go months,

01:16:24.220 --> 01:16:26.899
weeks or months without food. And truly, I think

01:16:26.899 --> 01:16:28.560
this is all engineered starvation. It started

01:16:28.560 --> 01:16:31.140
in March knowing that's really not going to kick

01:16:31.140 --> 01:16:34.960
in until July, August. You know, we're talking

01:16:34.960 --> 01:16:37.279
three or four months. And that's what we're seeing.

01:16:37.380 --> 01:16:41.619
So in June, we started to see where people were

01:16:41.619 --> 01:16:45.630
passing out. People were, you know, becoming,

01:16:45.810 --> 01:16:49.829
having hypovitaminosis, anemia. You could see

01:16:49.829 --> 01:16:51.770
it in their skin. Their energy levels were just

01:16:51.770 --> 01:16:55.229
sunken. The kids have no emotions. They're just

01:16:55.229 --> 01:17:00.470
tired. They don't even cry. And you're starting

01:17:00.470 --> 01:17:02.029
to see it and you're like, something's happening

01:17:02.029 --> 01:17:05.329
here. You know, but people aren't dying yet.

01:17:06.090 --> 01:17:09.050
And then July came along and then you just started

01:17:09.050 --> 01:17:12.840
seeing a spike. if you look at the chart it's

01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:16.920
like in march one or two april one or two you

01:17:16.920 --> 01:17:19.819
know june three or four and then july was like

01:17:19.819 --> 01:17:23.020
60. you know and i don't the august numbers obviously

01:17:23.020 --> 01:17:25.800
are not out yet because it's august 7th but i'm

01:17:25.800 --> 01:17:30.500
really afraid it's gonna be like 150 200 because

01:17:30.500 --> 01:17:33.220
it's not going up like linear it's going up like

01:17:33.220 --> 01:17:37.399
like a like a logarithmic you know Until something

01:17:37.399 --> 01:17:40.020
drastic happens, that's going to get worse and

01:17:40.020 --> 01:17:42.619
worse. And we're going to be talking about very

01:17:42.619 --> 01:17:44.659
high rate of death because we're in what we call

01:17:44.659 --> 01:17:48.420
IPC category five. And it's like international

01:17:48.420 --> 01:17:53.119
criteria for food insecurity. And we're in stage

01:17:53.119 --> 01:17:55.619
five, which is famine. What that means is in

01:17:55.619 --> 01:17:59.600
a population, that's two deaths per about 10

01:17:59.600 --> 01:18:02.159
,000 people. So if you extrapolate that up to

01:18:02.159 --> 01:18:04.800
2 .2 million people, that's about 500 deaths

01:18:04.800 --> 01:18:10.380
a day. And the problem with feeding a population

01:18:10.380 --> 01:18:13.000
who's already in famine is you can't just give

01:18:13.000 --> 01:18:15.880
them a T -bone steak and call it a day. Then

01:18:15.880 --> 01:18:17.159
they're going to have something called refeeding

01:18:17.159 --> 01:18:19.180
syndrome from a medical perspective where their

01:18:19.180 --> 01:18:21.819
electrolytes just don't know how to handle this

01:18:21.819 --> 01:18:25.840
rush of nutrients and food to the point your

01:18:25.840 --> 01:18:29.279
body just goes in shock almost. And it pushes

01:18:29.279 --> 01:18:31.840
the electrolytes into the wrong places. And then

01:18:31.840 --> 01:18:34.680
you have cardiac arrhythmias and you can die.

01:18:35.279 --> 01:18:38.380
So now we're dealing with the population that's

01:18:38.380 --> 01:18:41.460
not only starving to death, but even giving them

01:18:41.460 --> 01:18:46.500
aid might actually kill them. You need nutritionists,

01:18:46.539 --> 01:18:50.680
you need physicians, you need coaches. We're

01:18:50.680 --> 01:18:53.140
getting to a point where this is, in my opinion,

01:18:53.180 --> 01:18:59.680
all engineered to really come together kind of

01:18:59.680 --> 01:19:02.380
where we are now in August, July, August, September.

01:19:02.600 --> 01:19:06.539
And I don't think... I don't see a solution is

01:19:06.539 --> 01:19:09.819
what I'm concerned about. You might call me pessimistic,

01:19:09.840 --> 01:19:12.079
but just the way America is responding, just

01:19:12.079 --> 01:19:14.060
the way Israel is responding, just the way every

01:19:14.060 --> 01:19:17.020
other country in the world is not responding,

01:19:17.180 --> 01:19:20.800
I'm really scared to see what happens next year.

01:19:22.000 --> 01:19:24.939
When I was young, there was this amazing children's

01:19:24.939 --> 01:19:26.680
show called Blue Peter, and I've talked about

01:19:26.680 --> 01:19:29.380
it a few times on here. The television was phenomenal.

01:19:29.659 --> 01:19:32.899
It really was. And Blue Peter would talk about,

01:19:32.939 --> 01:19:35.279
you know, uh famines and things that were going

01:19:35.279 --> 01:19:37.239
on in the world and then they would literally

01:19:37.239 --> 01:19:39.500
get all you know the young people the school

01:19:39.500 --> 01:19:42.579
kids to figure out to do fundraisers and so we

01:19:42.579 --> 01:19:44.380
would raise money and obviously hopefully that

01:19:44.380 --> 01:19:46.279
would go and help with the feeding over there

01:19:46.279 --> 01:19:49.500
now you're seeing these images which again are

01:19:49.500 --> 01:19:53.220
very similar to the holocaust images of the starvation's

01:19:53.220 --> 01:19:55.199
gone even the you know as you said the aid workers

01:19:55.199 --> 01:19:58.359
the doctors you know they're gaunt as well but

01:19:58.359 --> 01:20:01.750
this isn't you know, a weather incident. This

01:20:01.750 --> 01:20:03.670
is literally a group of people that have been

01:20:03.670 --> 01:20:06.829
enclosed while there is, you know, bountiful

01:20:06.829 --> 01:20:09.050
amounts of food on the outside of these walls.

01:20:09.289 --> 01:20:12.229
So this is what makes it so disgusting is there

01:20:12.229 --> 01:20:15.550
was a solution, you know, and I think what I'd

01:20:15.550 --> 01:20:18.369
love to hear about is you mentioned the GHF sites.

01:20:19.069 --> 01:20:22.630
There's this kind of projection like, oh, we're

01:20:22.630 --> 01:20:25.189
providing all this food. And again, you know,

01:20:25.189 --> 01:20:28.409
Hamas has taken it or, you know. Whatever the

01:20:28.409 --> 01:20:30.409
excuse of why it isn't getting to the people.

01:20:30.529 --> 01:20:32.210
Now, again, you've been on the ground. You've

01:20:32.210 --> 01:20:33.710
been talking to these people that are there.

01:20:34.210 --> 01:20:37.050
Talk to me about these sites. You mentioned how

01:20:37.050 --> 01:20:40.310
few there are in the first place. But are there

01:20:40.310 --> 01:20:44.569
just tankers of food being held by Hamas or whatever

01:20:44.569 --> 01:20:47.989
it is away from the people? Or is it set up to

01:20:47.989 --> 01:20:50.510
seem like aid is being given when it's actually

01:20:50.510 --> 01:20:55.539
not? So aid is a very complicated topic, and

01:20:55.539 --> 01:20:57.880
I think it's worth talking about here. So there's

01:20:57.880 --> 01:21:01.020
a GHF aid. There's only four sites of distribution,

01:21:01.199 --> 01:21:04.380
and all of these distribution sites are in what

01:21:04.380 --> 01:21:06.520
you call red zones or militarized zones by the

01:21:06.520 --> 01:21:09.619
Israeli army to the point if anyone with a gun

01:21:09.619 --> 01:21:11.920
or a weapon were to go there, that drone would

01:21:11.920 --> 01:21:14.779
just smack them dead in a millisecond. There's

01:21:14.779 --> 01:21:17.859
just no way. And there's a drone flying overhead

01:21:17.859 --> 01:21:22.180
24 -7 while we were in the hospital. And I'm

01:21:22.180 --> 01:21:23.779
sure that's everywhere in Gaza, but we were only

01:21:23.779 --> 01:21:26.100
in Khan Yunis. And yeah, there was not a second

01:21:26.100 --> 01:21:27.979
in the day that there wasn't a drone buzzing

01:21:27.979 --> 01:21:33.020
overhead. On top of that, there's tens of thousands

01:21:33.020 --> 01:21:37.000
of people who go to these GHF sites. And while

01:21:37.000 --> 01:21:39.180
you're there, there's military contraction from

01:21:39.180 --> 01:21:42.800
America. There's Israeli army. There's drones.

01:21:42.819 --> 01:21:49.810
There's tanks. And to say that Hamas. is going

01:21:49.810 --> 01:21:52.909
there to steal the aid basically just means that

01:21:52.909 --> 01:21:55.449
the Israeli army and the American mercenaries

01:21:55.449 --> 01:21:57.970
are incompetent. That Hamas can just come, take

01:21:57.970 --> 01:22:00.489
the food, and steal it from everyone, from the

01:22:00.489 --> 01:22:03.550
10 ,000 people. It's not logistically possible.

01:22:03.630 --> 01:22:06.489
It's not logistically feasible, even if you believed

01:22:06.489 --> 01:22:10.229
in that, right? And okay, let's say one Hamas

01:22:10.229 --> 01:22:15.369
person was there and he took some food for himself

01:22:15.369 --> 01:22:18.149
and his family. Is that Hamas stealing aid to

01:22:18.149 --> 01:22:21.109
the point that you starve the rest of the population?

01:22:21.329 --> 01:22:25.529
No. On top of that, the GHF sites are not bringing

01:22:25.529 --> 01:22:27.289
in as much aid as you think. We actually saw

01:22:27.289 --> 01:22:31.250
one of the convoys coming in as we were leaving

01:22:31.250 --> 01:22:35.369
Gaza. It was about three truckloads, three 18

01:22:35.369 --> 01:22:36.989
-wheel trucks. You see that on the highway, three

01:22:36.989 --> 01:22:41.050
trucks. Great. That probably will feed 1 ,000

01:22:41.050 --> 01:22:47.289
to 2 ,000 people. That's not enough food. It's

01:22:47.289 --> 01:22:52.409
a joke. It's a show. So there's something else

01:22:52.409 --> 01:22:54.970
we need to talk about. So that's the GHF. The

01:22:54.970 --> 01:22:58.630
other thing is there is some aid coming in that's

01:22:58.630 --> 01:23:05.369
not GHF. And that is still not enough. It's just

01:23:05.369 --> 01:23:09.689
not enough trucks. We're talking about 500 aid

01:23:09.689 --> 01:23:12.789
trucks needed per day at bare minimum, according

01:23:12.789 --> 01:23:16.460
to the UN, before the war. Okay. And we're talking

01:23:16.460 --> 01:23:19.640
about like 10 trucks a day now, you know, three

01:23:19.640 --> 01:23:22.939
from GHF, seven from non -GHF. For example, I'm

01:23:22.939 --> 01:23:25.060
making up numbers, but it's this small, you know.

01:23:26.039 --> 01:23:29.100
Now, the problem with these trucks is that in

01:23:29.100 --> 01:23:31.800
order to get into Gaza, they have to go through

01:23:31.800 --> 01:23:35.079
military roads, Israeli army military roads.

01:23:35.760 --> 01:23:39.880
And who gets first access to these trucks in

01:23:39.880 --> 01:23:45.460
these highly militarized zones? I don't think

01:23:45.460 --> 01:23:47.260
many of your audience members might know this,

01:23:47.300 --> 01:23:49.619
but there's what we call internal gangs in Gaza.

01:23:50.319 --> 01:23:54.760
And these gangs somehow get access to the aid

01:23:54.760 --> 01:23:57.699
before anyone else in these militarized zones

01:23:57.699 --> 01:24:00.560
that Israel is keeping a close eye on. So you

01:24:00.560 --> 01:24:01.840
might wonder, like, how the heck are they doing

01:24:01.840 --> 01:24:04.180
that? Well, it turns out there's a lot of media

01:24:04.180 --> 01:24:06.220
that's reported on this, that these gangs are

01:24:06.220 --> 01:24:09.140
actually Israeli backed internal gangs. So basically

01:24:09.140 --> 01:24:13.640
sellouts in Gaza that through whatever means

01:24:13.640 --> 01:24:16.239
that they're. selling out to their their brothers

01:24:16.239 --> 01:24:18.439
and sisters in gaza they're willing to help the

01:24:18.439 --> 01:24:20.680
israeli army whether it be financial gains whether

01:24:20.680 --> 01:24:22.939
it be a promise of security whether it be a promise

01:24:22.939 --> 01:24:26.640
of exile in the future um they're basically looting

01:24:26.640 --> 01:24:30.439
these trucks taking majority of the food off

01:24:30.439 --> 01:24:33.420
and then selling it in gaza at extraordinary

01:24:33.420 --> 01:24:38.579
prices okay and any of the local police in gaza

01:24:39.050 --> 01:24:41.270
And when I say police, you know, people's heads

01:24:41.270 --> 01:24:43.689
might be like, oh, that's Hamas. No, well, it's

01:24:43.689 --> 01:24:45.949
still a society that's trying to function, you

01:24:45.949 --> 01:24:47.409
know. So now at this point, they're probably

01:24:47.409 --> 01:24:50.550
voluntary police. So they try to protect these

01:24:50.550 --> 01:24:54.329
convoys, but they can't. And if they have weapons,

01:24:54.510 --> 01:24:57.989
then they'll be struck with a drone. And this

01:24:57.989 --> 01:25:00.289
has happened multiple times. So now you have

01:25:00.289 --> 01:25:04.510
these gangs and the main one is Abu Shabab. So

01:25:04.510 --> 01:25:09.520
Abu Shabab, he, I believe. was a ex -fatah member

01:25:09.520 --> 01:25:14.000
or a non -hamas before the war some people say

01:25:14.000 --> 01:25:18.619
he has isis links as well and his family disowned

01:25:18.619 --> 01:25:21.000
him publicly they put a social media post out

01:25:21.000 --> 01:25:24.899
there his entire family basically said he is

01:25:24.899 --> 01:25:27.539
not of our blood anymore and his blood is halal

01:25:27.539 --> 01:25:31.199
meaning like anyone can kill him and that's that's

01:25:31.199 --> 01:25:34.460
retribution for what he's done to the gazan population

01:25:34.460 --> 01:25:36.720
so that's the other part of it that's not no

01:25:36.720 --> 01:25:38.960
one's really talking about it's this israeli

01:25:38.960 --> 01:25:43.460
backed gangs that israel is using to take advantage

01:25:43.460 --> 01:25:46.760
and create more chaos create more inflation create

01:25:46.760 --> 01:25:49.899
more difficulty create more starvation and it's

01:25:49.899 --> 01:25:51.520
a perpetual it's just getting worse every day

01:25:52.340 --> 01:25:54.180
Talk to me as well. And you kind of touched on

01:25:54.180 --> 01:25:56.619
it with the MCI. We've seen the videos, these

01:25:56.619 --> 01:25:59.760
people that do make it to these aid sites that

01:25:59.760 --> 01:26:02.800
are then being literally executed while they're

01:26:02.800 --> 01:26:08.020
trying to get food for their families. So I was

01:26:08.020 --> 01:26:12.579
never at the GHF sites. So my evidence, and I

01:26:12.579 --> 01:26:14.479
told you I'm all about private evidence, is secondary

01:26:14.479 --> 01:26:17.560
evidence, right? I wasn't there. But what I will

01:26:17.560 --> 01:26:19.920
tell you is we talked to all the family members

01:26:19.920 --> 01:26:23.770
through translators. through our fellow doctors,

01:26:23.930 --> 01:26:28.470
what is going on out there? Where did you come

01:26:28.470 --> 01:26:31.529
from? What does the GHF sites look like? What's

01:26:31.529 --> 01:26:33.130
happening? Are they actually shooting at you?

01:26:33.529 --> 01:26:35.869
Why are they shooting at you? Why are they shooting

01:26:35.869 --> 01:26:38.550
tank shells? We are asking everything because

01:26:38.550 --> 01:26:40.729
we ourselves are journalists while we were there.

01:26:40.930 --> 01:26:43.569
We didn't recognize the fact that we would go

01:26:43.569 --> 01:26:46.069
there as doctors, but we would also be journalists,

01:26:46.149 --> 01:26:50.609
humanitarianists, friends, psychologists. I mean,

01:26:50.630 --> 01:26:55.119
we were... So much more than just doctors. And

01:26:55.119 --> 01:26:58.100
as a journalist, I think it came to a realization

01:26:58.100 --> 01:27:01.039
that once we realized there's really no journalists

01:27:01.039 --> 01:27:03.439
on the ground anymore, we had to take it upon

01:27:03.439 --> 01:27:05.560
ourselves to get the story straight. And here

01:27:05.560 --> 01:27:07.439
I am talking to you and I give, you know, I thank

01:27:07.439 --> 01:27:09.600
you so much for giving me this opportunity. But

01:27:09.600 --> 01:27:11.939
I'm conveying to you through secondary evidence

01:27:11.939 --> 01:27:16.000
that the GHF sites are civilians going to get

01:27:16.000 --> 01:27:18.840
food. Some people get it. Some people don't.

01:27:19.229 --> 01:27:21.310
And they have to basically quarrel themselves

01:27:21.310 --> 01:27:25.210
into these little narrow walkways, one in and

01:27:25.210 --> 01:27:28.569
then one out. And then on their way in and out,

01:27:28.609 --> 01:27:31.890
they're hurried in and hurried out by gunfire.

01:27:33.270 --> 01:27:36.270
And I don't know if they shoot directly at them

01:27:36.270 --> 01:27:39.710
or shoot next to them. But the point is, everyone

01:27:39.710 --> 01:27:43.949
said there's gunfire everywhere. And it's just

01:27:43.949 --> 01:27:45.350
chaos, you know, and then you see the social

01:27:45.350 --> 01:27:48.920
media videos. And you hear some testimonies that

01:27:48.920 --> 01:27:52.319
are coming out now. And you're kind of putting

01:27:52.319 --> 01:27:54.560
the piece of the puzzle together. But it's interesting

01:27:54.560 --> 01:27:56.579
because we're hearing accounts of what's happening

01:27:56.579 --> 01:27:59.119
at the GHF. And then we're receiving it at Nassar

01:27:59.119 --> 01:28:01.920
Hospital Trauma Bay. And it's like this puzzle

01:28:01.920 --> 01:28:06.020
piece. It just fits. It's so perfect. But I guess

01:28:06.020 --> 01:28:07.699
that's still not enough evidence for people to

01:28:07.699 --> 01:28:11.619
believe international doctors. I mean, it is.

01:28:11.640 --> 01:28:15.140
I literally struggle to even comprehend it. I

01:28:15.140 --> 01:28:19.130
really do. But I believe there is a shift finally.

01:28:19.289 --> 01:28:22.189
Too little, too late. Absolutely. But there is

01:28:22.189 --> 01:28:24.609
a shift happening. Even the BBC now, everything

01:28:24.609 --> 01:28:26.869
is definitely reporting what's going on in Gaza

01:28:26.869 --> 01:28:29.630
rather than, like I said early on, Hamas this,

01:28:29.770 --> 01:28:33.770
Hamas that. So kind of walk me through the end

01:28:33.770 --> 01:28:36.390
of that. I mean, arguably deployment. And then,

01:28:36.390 --> 01:28:38.189
you know, what was your homecoming like after

01:28:38.189 --> 01:28:43.710
being immersed in that for a few weeks? Yeah,

01:28:43.789 --> 01:28:46.029
so, you know. I feel like I should just touch

01:28:46.029 --> 01:28:48.689
on one part of my deployment there that really

01:28:48.689 --> 01:28:51.369
hit me is their perseverance, is their smiles,

01:28:51.569 --> 01:28:55.310
is their humanity, is their friendship, is their

01:28:55.310 --> 01:28:59.189
hardworking ethics, their love for education,

01:28:59.510 --> 01:29:02.890
especially medicine, medical students to the

01:29:02.890 --> 01:29:05.149
residents. They just wanted to be taught lectures

01:29:05.149 --> 01:29:07.810
and pretend like there's a normal life out there.

01:29:08.550 --> 01:29:11.949
And I just thought that was so fascinating that.

01:29:12.399 --> 01:29:15.079
These people who are going through annihilation

01:29:15.079 --> 01:29:17.279
just want me to lecture them about a medical

01:29:17.279 --> 01:29:20.859
topic. It just didn't make any sense. You think

01:29:20.859 --> 01:29:22.579
they just want to go home and spend time with

01:29:22.579 --> 01:29:25.899
their family. But no, they have a whole different

01:29:25.899 --> 01:29:29.319
outlook on life. I don't think we can understand.

01:29:30.720 --> 01:29:33.180
So that's one of the things that keeps me happy

01:29:33.180 --> 01:29:37.279
is just the memories I have with them. The positive

01:29:37.279 --> 01:29:41.289
moments between the traumatic moments. And we

01:29:41.289 --> 01:29:43.510
were all in it together. You know, we came in

01:29:43.510 --> 01:29:47.890
as Americans and we were the same humanity that

01:29:47.890 --> 01:29:50.350
we're expected to have anywhere in the world.

01:29:50.689 --> 01:29:52.409
And I think that really showed. A lot of the

01:29:52.409 --> 01:29:54.170
people turn around after we pronounced their

01:29:54.170 --> 01:29:56.229
loved one dead, say thank you for coming here

01:29:56.229 --> 01:29:57.909
from America, from your comforts of your home,

01:29:58.010 --> 01:30:00.890
from giving up your family to be with us. And,

01:30:00.909 --> 01:30:04.470
you know, I'm not about self -promotion at all.

01:30:04.789 --> 01:30:07.550
Being a doctor is a very, you know, thankless

01:30:07.550 --> 01:30:09.590
job. And I'm okay with that. I'm completely okay

01:30:09.590 --> 01:30:13.159
with that, right? But I've never felt more gratitude

01:30:13.159 --> 01:30:17.180
from others than being in Gaza. People were thanking

01:30:17.180 --> 01:30:21.140
us so many times a day, even after we pronounced

01:30:21.140 --> 01:30:24.060
our family members dead. They knew we tried our

01:30:24.060 --> 01:30:26.720
best, you know. And there's really the resources

01:30:26.720 --> 01:30:29.300
there are just awful. We didn't even touch on

01:30:29.300 --> 01:30:33.000
that. But the resources in Gaza are just minimal

01:30:33.000 --> 01:30:35.800
in terms of every kind of medical specialty.

01:30:36.560 --> 01:30:38.720
But yeah, so, you know, eventually it was time

01:30:38.720 --> 01:30:41.609
to come home. And that date was kind of looming

01:30:41.609 --> 01:30:44.250
on us. We almost didn't want to go home because

01:30:44.250 --> 01:30:46.930
we're just like, this is so pure. This is so,

01:30:46.949 --> 01:30:51.510
you know, this is medicine. And we felt it. And

01:30:51.510 --> 01:30:55.250
we haven't felt that in a really long time. So

01:30:55.250 --> 01:30:57.510
as we were leaving, it was very bittersweet.

01:30:57.569 --> 01:31:00.369
We were very happy, very excited to see our family

01:31:00.369 --> 01:31:03.630
soon, our babies. Some of us had six months old

01:31:03.630 --> 01:31:05.850
at home. Some of us had five months old. There

01:31:05.850 --> 01:31:09.520
was one doctor who had a two -week -old. waiting

01:31:09.520 --> 01:31:12.520
for him at home. Sorry, four week at that time.

01:31:12.600 --> 01:31:15.220
So he entered with a two week old. And yeah,

01:31:15.979 --> 01:31:19.340
we were excited, but just we're leaving our brothers

01:31:19.340 --> 01:31:21.079
and sisters behind. That's what it felt like.

01:31:21.840 --> 01:31:24.220
I don't know if I'd see them again. I keep in

01:31:24.220 --> 01:31:27.359
touch with them, but I would have no idea what

01:31:27.359 --> 01:31:31.010
will happen to them. How did you begin the process

01:31:31.010 --> 01:31:33.569
that when you came home? Because you talk about

01:31:33.569 --> 01:31:36.050
moral injury, even in my career. I think one

01:31:36.050 --> 01:31:38.430
of the most crushing things when you're in, you

01:31:38.430 --> 01:31:40.470
know, a service profession, you know, medical

01:31:40.470 --> 01:31:43.729
profession is the inability to save. And you're

01:31:43.729 --> 01:31:46.880
out there, you know, with. know such limited

01:31:46.880 --> 01:31:49.140
resources and just overwhelmed by the number

01:31:49.140 --> 01:31:51.619
of people that needed help and then you get on

01:31:51.619 --> 01:31:53.880
a plane and you find yourself back in in the

01:31:53.880 --> 01:31:56.060
states and as you said the creature compass that

01:31:56.060 --> 01:31:58.079
you're used to and with your healthy children

01:31:58.079 --> 01:32:01.319
and healthy wife that must have been jarring

01:32:01.319 --> 01:32:03.180
in a way so how have you been able to navigate

01:32:03.180 --> 01:32:07.960
that so far yeah that was hard i landed um you

01:32:07.960 --> 01:32:14.909
know 14 15 hours later came home my Five -month

01:32:14.909 --> 01:32:17.930
-old at that time. Was so chubby. You know, he

01:32:17.930 --> 01:32:20.789
had fat rolls all over his arms. I was just like,

01:32:20.829 --> 01:32:26.930
wow. I don't know. I'm happy, but I wish I could

01:32:26.930 --> 01:32:28.470
give some of that fat to those kids, you know?

01:32:29.029 --> 01:32:31.489
And then my 9 -year -old and my 6 -year -old

01:32:31.489 --> 01:32:33.090
were just so happy I'm home. They're like, Baba,

01:32:33.170 --> 01:32:35.770
when you get over Gaza, can we play Mario Kart?

01:32:36.710 --> 01:32:39.289
In my head, I was like, I can't get mad at these

01:32:39.289 --> 01:32:41.949
kids. It's not fair, you know? But I was so upset.

01:32:42.109 --> 01:32:45.510
Just so upset that they said that. I was like,

01:32:45.550 --> 01:32:47.470
you don't understand what I just saw. You don't

01:32:47.470 --> 01:32:50.289
understand what I just experienced. Talking about

01:32:50.289 --> 01:32:56.270
playing Mario Kart just angered me. I looked

01:32:56.270 --> 01:32:58.750
at my wife and I was like, I need to just not

01:32:58.750 --> 01:33:06.130
say anything right now. It took me maybe a week

01:33:06.130 --> 01:33:09.789
to get back into things. I think I kind of just

01:33:09.789 --> 01:33:12.489
slept everything off. It's not that I slept it

01:33:12.489 --> 01:33:15.060
off. I think I just handled my emotions through

01:33:15.060 --> 01:33:19.680
sleeping. And yeah, now I'm putting things more

01:33:19.680 --> 01:33:21.340
into action than I thought I would. I didn't

01:33:21.340 --> 01:33:23.180
really know what I would do when I came back,

01:33:23.239 --> 01:33:26.560
but I find myself being a lot more vocal about

01:33:26.560 --> 01:33:28.640
what's going on there than I ever have. I'm just

01:33:28.640 --> 01:33:31.020
not scared anymore. You know, before people label

01:33:31.020 --> 01:33:33.420
you this, label you that, saying, hey, this is

01:33:33.420 --> 01:33:35.760
too political. Hey, this is not something we

01:33:35.760 --> 01:33:37.020
need to talk about at work. And I'm just like,

01:33:37.060 --> 01:33:39.199
dude, I'm a doctor. If people are dying, it's

01:33:39.199 --> 01:33:41.180
relevant, you know? I don't care where it is.

01:33:41.239 --> 01:33:44.359
I'm talking about it. And my job is not to be

01:33:44.359 --> 01:33:46.340
annoying, but just to raise awareness. And like

01:33:46.340 --> 01:33:49.279
you said, the world is waking up. Unfortunately,

01:33:49.340 --> 01:33:51.159
we have leadership in every country that's just

01:33:51.159 --> 01:33:54.199
still hibernating to going the opposite direction.

01:33:54.500 --> 01:33:56.640
But I truly think Americans are finally like,

01:33:56.779 --> 01:34:00.100
okay, something is majorly off here and it's

01:34:00.100 --> 01:34:02.739
our tax money that's doing this. And I don't

01:34:02.739 --> 01:34:04.300
know what it is, but I feel like it just started

01:34:04.300 --> 01:34:06.979
two, three weeks ago. I agree. I agree. I think

01:34:06.979 --> 01:34:09.539
there's literally the beginning of what I've

01:34:09.539 --> 01:34:11.880
called a renaissance of kindness, compassion,

01:34:12.180 --> 01:34:15.819
and empathy. I think we've strayed so far from

01:34:15.819 --> 01:34:19.300
who we are as Americans. And even if you subscribe

01:34:19.300 --> 01:34:22.479
to Islam or Christianity or Judaism or whatever

01:34:22.479 --> 01:34:25.060
it is, even there, you're like, well, wait a

01:34:25.060 --> 01:34:28.680
second. Would our prophet actually turn their

01:34:28.680 --> 01:34:30.960
head to these atrocities? Of course not. of course,

01:34:31.020 --> 01:34:32.880
that'd be the first person, you know, acting.

01:34:33.039 --> 01:34:35.979
So I think, you know, there's the cracks to the

01:34:35.979 --> 01:34:38.100
foundation are really starting to show now. And

01:34:38.100 --> 01:34:39.319
I've, you know, something I've said everything

01:34:39.319 --> 01:34:42.020
from this to, you know, even in my profession,

01:34:42.079 --> 01:34:45.300
as far as lack of leadership is there's a, there's

01:34:45.300 --> 01:34:47.560
a lot of cowardice, you know, we, we beat our

01:34:47.560 --> 01:34:51.000
chests and we, you know, get all googly eyed

01:34:51.000 --> 01:34:54.340
over guns and, you know, muscles and cowardice

01:34:54.340 --> 01:34:57.180
is standing up when it's an unpopular conversation.

01:34:57.600 --> 01:35:00.079
I mean, sorry, it's not standing up. Courage

01:35:00.079 --> 01:35:01.960
is standing up when it's an unpopular conversation.

01:35:02.260 --> 01:35:05.060
And cowardice is allowed to thrive and becomes

01:35:05.060 --> 01:35:08.579
tyranny if you just let it perpetuate. So I think

01:35:08.579 --> 01:35:10.560
that now people are starting to see through the

01:35:10.560 --> 01:35:12.720
lies and then hopefully there'll be a groundswell

01:35:12.720 --> 01:35:16.520
of support in the right direction. So with that

01:35:16.520 --> 01:35:20.560
being said, if you were king for a day and you

01:35:20.560 --> 01:35:23.380
could wave a magic wand, what were the things

01:35:23.380 --> 01:35:26.140
that would need to change so that we could reverse

01:35:26.140 --> 01:35:32.300
this? Yeah, I think it's dialogue. I think it's

01:35:32.300 --> 01:35:37.800
just communication. I think it's love. And I

01:35:37.800 --> 01:35:41.140
know these sound so generic, but, you know, I

01:35:41.140 --> 01:35:43.800
don't think the Gazans hate Jews. I don't think

01:35:43.800 --> 01:35:47.439
the Gazans hate Israelis. I think if they were

01:35:47.439 --> 01:35:51.380
given a chance to coexist in a single state where

01:35:51.380 --> 01:35:53.640
everyone's democratic and everyone has the same

01:35:53.640 --> 01:35:57.060
rights, I think they would get over the genocide.

01:35:57.319 --> 01:36:00.079
I think they would. Just try to start a new life.

01:36:00.140 --> 01:36:01.319
Because I think at this point, people are just

01:36:01.319 --> 01:36:05.619
sick of it. They just want to live. But they

01:36:05.619 --> 01:36:09.399
want to be given an equal chance. Because they've

01:36:09.399 --> 01:36:14.579
been living in this apartheid concept for however

01:36:14.579 --> 01:36:17.939
long they were born. And I think it's time that

01:36:17.939 --> 01:36:21.739
we get over that. Colonialism is so old school

01:36:21.739 --> 01:36:24.880
now. It's like, why do we still have this concept

01:36:24.880 --> 01:36:31.239
going on in 2025? I truly think if I was given

01:36:31.239 --> 01:36:35.140
that magic ability, I would just tell people,

01:36:35.279 --> 01:36:40.020
figure it out. Figure it out. Stop the killing.

01:36:40.420 --> 01:36:43.039
Just like two siblings. They're going to fight,

01:36:43.159 --> 01:36:45.619
right? But as a parent, you tell them, figure

01:36:45.619 --> 01:36:48.779
it out. I'm done with your bickering. And I feel

01:36:48.779 --> 01:36:52.000
like Trump, he has that power. He really does.

01:36:52.319 --> 01:36:54.380
And I'm not trying to get political. I'm not

01:36:54.380 --> 01:36:56.600
going to talk about Democrats, Republicans. but

01:36:56.600 --> 01:36:59.119
truly you know we can't argue that trump is the

01:36:59.119 --> 01:37:01.119
most powerful man in the world he has the power

01:37:01.119 --> 01:37:03.119
to stop this overnight actually when we were

01:37:03.119 --> 01:37:07.140
in gaza the iran israel uh conflict was going

01:37:07.140 --> 01:37:10.399
on and then 12 days later just stopped you know

01:37:10.399 --> 01:37:13.560
because trump told it to stop and everyone was

01:37:13.560 --> 01:37:17.359
just like why can't that happen for guys yeah

01:37:17.359 --> 01:37:19.619
exactly and i think that's it you know in the

01:37:19.619 --> 01:37:22.369
meantime we're talking about you know revamping

01:37:22.369 --> 01:37:24.149
the White House rather than what needs to be

01:37:24.149 --> 01:37:26.289
talked about. And I think going to your point,

01:37:26.390 --> 01:37:29.590
one of the greatest tricks that they've ever

01:37:29.590 --> 01:37:33.270
pulled is to label things that really need to

01:37:33.270 --> 01:37:36.930
be discussed as religion or politics. It's not.

01:37:36.970 --> 01:37:40.800
It's humanity. Whether it's the COVID, the pandemic,

01:37:40.939 --> 01:37:43.039
whatever it is, it was never political. And with

01:37:43.039 --> 01:37:45.520
this, it's not about politics. It's the fact

01:37:45.520 --> 01:37:48.640
that this is inhumane what's going on. And you

01:37:48.640 --> 01:37:51.760
mentioned apartheid. One of the bravest, loudest

01:37:51.760 --> 01:37:54.520
voices at the beginning were the Irish and the

01:37:54.520 --> 01:37:57.279
South Africans. Two populations that have experienced

01:37:57.279 --> 01:38:00.300
this kind of issue. So if we're not listening

01:38:00.300 --> 01:38:02.300
to them, then who the hell are we listening to?

01:38:03.000 --> 01:38:05.279
Absolutely. Absolutely. I actually, through this

01:38:05.279 --> 01:38:08.699
conflict, learned so much about Ireland and the

01:38:08.699 --> 01:38:10.399
conflict like you were talking about. I didn't

01:38:10.399 --> 01:38:12.760
know much of that growing up. So this has opened

01:38:12.760 --> 01:38:15.119
my eyes to that. And also what's happened in

01:38:15.119 --> 01:38:17.579
South Africa. Growing up, I just didn't know

01:38:17.579 --> 01:38:20.920
enough about that. But this conflict in Gaza

01:38:20.920 --> 01:38:23.520
has really made me learn a lot more. Because

01:38:23.520 --> 01:38:25.939
you have to read. You just have to educate yourself.

01:38:26.060 --> 01:38:29.539
You can't just ignore it. There's so much distractions

01:38:29.539 --> 01:38:34.109
in our lives. And we can just binge Netflix.

01:38:34.710 --> 01:38:39.369
But that doesn't make you a well -rounded person.

01:38:39.590 --> 01:38:41.710
We should strive for betterment. We should strive

01:38:41.710 --> 01:38:43.470
for understanding humanity. We should strive

01:38:43.470 --> 01:38:46.310
to understand different cultures. And again,

01:38:46.390 --> 01:38:49.550
that makes us American. I think in America, we

01:38:49.550 --> 01:38:52.090
truly do have that advantage of being so multicultural

01:38:52.090 --> 01:38:54.250
and just being able to understand the world at

01:38:54.250 --> 01:38:56.170
a level that most other people who live in a

01:38:56.170 --> 01:38:59.649
uniform population don't get the chance to. Absolutely.

01:39:00.239 --> 01:39:02.079
Well, before we close off this conversation,

01:39:02.279 --> 01:39:06.800
is there anything else you want to impart? No,

01:39:06.939 --> 01:39:09.600
I just honestly, I feel like I've been talking

01:39:09.600 --> 01:39:13.279
to most people at work nowadays and people who

01:39:13.279 --> 01:39:16.000
have come up with the conclusion that, you know,

01:39:16.000 --> 01:39:18.899
60 ,000 dead and, you know, half of them women

01:39:18.899 --> 01:39:21.460
and children. I just say thank you for having

01:39:21.460 --> 01:39:23.979
a moral compass. Like that's that's the level

01:39:23.979 --> 01:39:27.380
of expectation I have now. The fact that people

01:39:27.380 --> 01:39:29.479
just have a moral compass. And if that's what

01:39:29.479 --> 01:39:31.279
it takes for the world to change, I'll take it.

01:39:31.420 --> 01:39:33.260
Because like I said, something's changed in the

01:39:33.260 --> 01:39:35.279
last two or three weeks. Let's continue this

01:39:35.279 --> 01:39:38.359
momentum where we're doing grassroots education

01:39:38.359 --> 01:39:42.380
about humanity. And I think that's what's going

01:39:42.380 --> 01:39:45.199
to change the world. People like you talking

01:39:45.199 --> 01:39:47.560
about this, who are not scared to back away from

01:39:47.560 --> 01:39:52.579
this, giving me a voice. I actually asked one

01:39:52.579 --> 01:39:54.439
of the representatives, how many physicians...

01:39:54.920 --> 01:39:57.000
since October, 2023 have been there probably

01:39:57.000 --> 01:39:59.779
500. So it's probably 500 individuals who can

01:39:59.779 --> 01:40:01.479
actually speak to what's actually happened there,

01:40:01.579 --> 01:40:06.220
you know, and only 170 at Nassar hospital, which

01:40:06.220 --> 01:40:09.939
is crazy, you know? And yeah, I just, I just

01:40:09.939 --> 01:40:12.800
really want to thank the people who are speaking

01:40:12.800 --> 01:40:15.699
up for being brave. You know, we in the West

01:40:15.699 --> 01:40:18.199
have a louder voice and, and I'll have to say

01:40:18.199 --> 01:40:21.439
it white, white men and women have a louder voice

01:40:21.439 --> 01:40:25.100
than me as a Brown American dude. And so, I just

01:40:25.100 --> 01:40:27.579
want to hear more voices speaking up about this.

01:40:28.800 --> 01:40:30.380
Because it's really not a religious thing at

01:40:30.380 --> 01:40:33.819
this point. It's not an ethnic thing. It's just

01:40:33.819 --> 01:40:38.920
humanity is just being annihilated. And we need

01:40:38.920 --> 01:40:43.619
to get back on our feet and learn from history

01:40:43.619 --> 01:40:48.100
for once. I think at the end of the day, we have

01:40:48.100 --> 01:40:52.180
to remember that everyone out there who's being

01:40:52.180 --> 01:40:54.789
killed Is no different than your sister your

01:40:54.789 --> 01:40:57.729
mother your father your brother your son your

01:40:57.729 --> 01:40:59.210
daughter. They're just trying to live a life