WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.740 This episode is sponsored by TeamBuildr, yet 00:00:02.740 --> 00:00:04.860 another company that's doing great things for 00:00:04.860 --> 00:00:07.679 the first responder community. As a strength 00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:09.960 and conditioning coach myself who also trains 00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:13.140 tactical athletes, dissemination of wellness 00:00:13.140 --> 00:00:15.320 information is one of the biggest challenges. 00:00:15.980 --> 00:00:18.519 Now TeamBuildr is the premier strength and conditioning 00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:21.539 software for tactical athletes and there are 00:00:21.539 --> 00:00:24.839 several features that really impress me. Firstly, 00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:27.780 there is a full exercise library. So you, the 00:00:27.780 --> 00:00:29.940 personal trainer, does not have to create that 00:00:29.940 --> 00:00:33.060 within your own department. Secondly, you can 00:00:33.060 --> 00:00:36.020 send out programming, but also individualize, 00:00:36.060 --> 00:00:38.840 which I love. So you blanket program for everyone. 00:00:39.060 --> 00:00:41.780 Now you can tweak based on someone's injury, 00:00:41.979 --> 00:00:44.479 someone's need to maybe drop some body composition, 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:47.420 rather than having to write a program for every 00:00:47.420 --> 00:00:50.200 single person on their own. TeamBuildr also 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:52.679 allows you to build custom questionnaires to 00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:55.719 collate health and wellness data. It integrates 00:00:55.719 --> 00:00:58.280 with wearables. And I think one of the most important 00:00:58.280 --> 00:01:02.079 things is obviously it tracks. To me, it's imperative 00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:05.540 that we as a profession start tracking our people 00:01:05.540 --> 00:01:09.439 from day one and then over the full span of their 00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:12.659 career, therefore catching potential wellness 00:01:12.659 --> 00:01:16.200 issues and injuries before they happen. Now, 00:01:16.219 --> 00:01:18.420 if you want to try Teambuildr, they are offering 00:01:18.420 --> 00:01:20.760 you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast, 00:01:21.180 --> 00:01:25.359 a free 14 -day trial to experience all of the 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:27.900 features. And if you want to take a deeper dive 00:01:27.900 --> 00:01:32.439 into TeamBuildr, listen to episode 1032 with 00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:36.459 Melissa Mercado or go to teambuildr .com. And 00:01:36.459 --> 00:01:37.980 I'll spell that to you because it's not as you 00:01:37.980 --> 00:01:44.469 think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome 00:01:44.469 --> 00:01:46.250 to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, 00:01:46.290 --> 00:01:48.010 my name is James Geering, and this week it is 00:01:48.010 --> 00:01:51.750 my absolute honor to welcome on the show 25 -year 00:01:51.750 --> 00:01:55.549 U .S. Army veteran, physician's assistant, and 00:01:55.549 --> 00:01:58.189 one of the founders of Frontline Mobile Health, 00:01:58.549 --> 00:02:02.250 Mike Connor. Now, in this conversation, we discuss 00:02:02.250 --> 00:02:05.629 a host of topics, from his journey into the military, 00:02:05.849 --> 00:02:08.430 the creation of the Physician Assistant Program 00:02:08.430 --> 00:02:13.439 for Military Transition, trauma medicine, working 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:16.759 with the first responder community, fitness standards, 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:21.360 entry requirements, blood panels, psych evaluations, 00:02:21.639 --> 00:02:24.800 and so much more. Now, before we get to this 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:27.340 incredible conversation, as I say every week, 00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:30.479 please just take a moment, go to whichever app 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:33.080 you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, 00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:37.289 leave feedback, and leave a rating. Every single 00:02:37.289 --> 00:02:40.370 five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast, 00:02:40.669 --> 00:02:42.969 therefore making it easier for others to find. 00:02:43.150 --> 00:02:47.669 And this is a free library of well over 1 ,100 00:02:47.669 --> 00:02:51.530 episodes now. So all I ask in return is that 00:02:51.530 --> 00:02:54.389 you help share these incredible men and women's 00:02:54.389 --> 00:02:57.789 stories so I can get them to every single person 00:02:57.789 --> 00:03:01.370 on planet Earth who needs to hear them. So with 00:03:01.370 --> 00:03:05.629 that being said, I introduce to you Mike Connor. 00:03:06.250 --> 00:03:27.770 Enjoy. Well, Mike, I want to start by saying 00:03:27.770 --> 00:03:30.210 two things. Firstly, thank you to our mutual 00:03:30.210 --> 00:03:32.669 friend Trevor for making this connection. And 00:03:32.669 --> 00:03:35.009 secondly, to welcome you onto the Behind the 00:03:35.009 --> 00:03:37.909 Shield podcast today. Oh, hey, thank you very 00:03:37.909 --> 00:03:40.810 much for having me. Trevor's a powerhouse and 00:03:40.810 --> 00:03:45.550 such a solid guy and vocal advocate for firefighter 00:03:45.550 --> 00:03:47.189 health and safety. And I love him to death. He's 00:03:47.189 --> 00:03:49.469 a good dude. All those people, honestly, out 00:03:49.469 --> 00:03:51.169 there at Pflugerville are just amazing people. 00:03:51.659 --> 00:03:54.199 Yeah, he blew me away. We came across each other 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:56.520 after social media, but watching this lunatic 00:03:56.520 --> 00:03:58.900 doing Tough Mudders in full firefighting gear, 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:01.719 I'm like, okay, I got to talk to this bloke. 00:04:01.860 --> 00:04:04.460 And yeah, now he's the force of nature in a different 00:04:04.460 --> 00:04:08.099 way. Yeah. All right. Well, then first question, 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:09.979 where on planet Earth are we finding you today? 00:04:10.979 --> 00:04:13.620 So today I'm in beautiful Colorado Springs, Colorado. 00:04:14.340 --> 00:04:16.819 It's where my wife graduated from high school 00:04:16.819 --> 00:04:18.720 and where I promised her I'd get her back to 00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:24.689 after. after some time in Texas with me. Well, 00:04:24.750 --> 00:04:27.009 this is an interesting kind of side conversation 00:04:27.009 --> 00:04:29.110 because Colorado Springs is where the National 00:04:29.110 --> 00:04:32.290 Fallen Firefighter Memorial is. It is. We're 00:04:32.290 --> 00:04:34.430 going to be talking about how to improve those 00:04:34.430 --> 00:04:37.550 odds today. No, absolutely. I look forward to 00:04:37.550 --> 00:04:38.949 it. All right. Well, let's start at the very 00:04:38.949 --> 00:04:41.230 beginning of your journey. So tell me where you 00:04:41.230 --> 00:04:43.089 were born and tell me a little bit about your 00:04:43.089 --> 00:04:45.370 family dynamic, what your parents did and how 00:04:45.370 --> 00:04:50.480 many siblings. Yeah. So I am an only child. I 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:55.199 had a very interesting childhood. I grew up in 00:04:55.199 --> 00:04:57.019 Hawaii, but I was born in the Philippines. So 00:04:57.019 --> 00:04:59.899 my dad was a Navy guy, married a Filipino gal, 00:05:00.100 --> 00:05:05.220 moved to Hawaii. And then I was raised by a single 00:05:05.220 --> 00:05:08.740 mom who was presented with a lot of challenges 00:05:08.740 --> 00:05:12.879 growing up because Hawaii is not a cheap place 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:17.329 to live. And we lived on the bad side of the 00:05:17.329 --> 00:05:19.329 island. And people are always like, what do you 00:05:19.329 --> 00:05:20.589 mean bad side of the island? There's no such 00:05:20.589 --> 00:05:23.050 thing as a bad side of the island. So we lived 00:05:23.050 --> 00:05:27.550 on the west side. We lived in Waianae. Lately, 00:05:27.569 --> 00:05:30.129 Waianae has gotten a lot of attention because 00:05:30.129 --> 00:05:32.790 of a UFC fighter named Max Holloway. He's from 00:05:32.790 --> 00:05:34.550 Waianae, Hawaii. He's done a lot of great things 00:05:34.550 --> 00:05:37.490 out there, and I love watching him grow. But 00:05:37.490 --> 00:05:40.509 it's a very rough part of the island. My mom 00:05:40.509 --> 00:05:42.810 usually works two or three jobs, no siblings. 00:05:44.159 --> 00:05:47.579 And I got into a lot of trouble. So I got shipped 00:05:47.579 --> 00:05:51.279 out to go to live with my grandmother for a couple 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:54.420 of years and then came back home. And then and 00:05:54.420 --> 00:05:57.519 then for my senior year of high school, we moved 00:05:57.519 --> 00:06:01.240 to Las Vegas. And then I joined the military 00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:04.959 from there because, well, I'd screwed off so 00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:08.740 much in school and didn't really feel like I 00:06:08.740 --> 00:06:10.879 had a purpose and didn't know what I was going 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:15.240 to do. Um, shipped off to the army right after 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:19.899 I graduated, uh, my senior year. Um, I did a 00:06:19.899 --> 00:06:23.079 short, a short, like about a four, a little over 00:06:23.079 --> 00:06:26.600 four year enlistment went, uh, along the way. 00:06:26.620 --> 00:06:28.019 They're like, Hey, you're really smart. You should 00:06:28.019 --> 00:06:31.639 try going to college. And so I went to college. 00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:36.420 Uh, I found a passion for, um, science and in 00:06:36.420 --> 00:06:39.860 particular medicine, wanted to go to a medical 00:06:39.860 --> 00:06:43.939 school. And then my senior year. of, of, uh, 00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:48.259 of college. Um, I was getting ready on the end 00:06:48.259 --> 00:06:50.439 of my bed, brushing my teeth, watching a Matt 00:06:50.439 --> 00:06:53.000 Lauer interview somebody. And then the camera 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:56.100 switched over, uh, to a plane flying into the 00:06:56.100 --> 00:06:59.100 Royal trade center. Um, and when it first happened, 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:01.180 I was just like, Oh my God, what happened? And 00:07:01.180 --> 00:07:03.500 then shortly after that, the second plane came 00:07:03.500 --> 00:07:06.120 in and I, and, and, and I just kind of knew, 00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:10.879 and I said, okay, well, it looks like, um, It 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:12.779 looks like we're probably going to go to war. 00:07:13.019 --> 00:07:15.459 So I'm going to shelf some of these aspirations 00:07:15.459 --> 00:07:19.959 for further education. Came back in the military, 00:07:20.259 --> 00:07:26.519 served as an infantry officer, did a variety 00:07:26.519 --> 00:07:30.160 of jobs there through company command, deployed 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:36.720 multiple times to combat. And yeah, and then 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:42.860 I kind of got tired of that. Um, and was looking 00:07:42.860 --> 00:07:45.959 back at my college, you know, career and, you 00:07:45.959 --> 00:07:47.639 know, just thinking to myself, like, you know, 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:49.899 I really wanted to go into medicine and the army 00:07:49.899 --> 00:07:53.779 has this amazing program. Um, it's the interservice 00:07:53.779 --> 00:07:56.199 physician assistant program. It's affectionately 00:07:56.199 --> 00:07:59.360 called IPAP, Navy, Coast Guard, Marines, Air 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:02.240 Force, Army, all go through the program and you 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:05.339 become a PA, uh, amazing program, incredibly 00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:09.509 hard to get into. Um, and just some. really top 00:08:09.509 --> 00:08:13.610 notch, you know, special operators, combat medics, 00:08:13.629 --> 00:08:18.110 infantry guys like me, rangers, like all of these 00:08:18.110 --> 00:08:20.870 people that, you know, show an aptitude for medicine 00:08:20.870 --> 00:08:24.870 and a passion for taking care of soldiers really 00:08:24.870 --> 00:08:29.670 get into that program. And I was fortunate enough 00:08:29.670 --> 00:08:34.620 to get in. So I was able to. do that. And then 00:08:34.620 --> 00:08:36.440 I started my medicine career in the military 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:39.039 and that, and that brought me out to like 2018 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:42.080 where I took care of soldiers and aviators and 00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:46.720 yeah. So that's kind of me in a nutshell up until, 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:50.490 up until retirement in 2018. Well, let's go all 00:08:50.490 --> 00:08:53.629 the way back to earlier. Firstly, I'm married 00:08:53.629 --> 00:08:56.549 to a woman who is half Filipino. So I've been 00:08:56.549 --> 00:08:59.909 exposed to that culture. So talk to me about 00:08:59.909 --> 00:09:02.830 some of the beautiful things about Filipino culture 00:09:02.830 --> 00:09:05.149 that most people aren't aware of as you were 00:09:05.149 --> 00:09:08.809 progressing through your childhood. Man, family 00:09:08.809 --> 00:09:15.549 is so important. Family, you know, my my mom 00:09:15.549 --> 00:09:20.830 was so busy and. working all the time, but she 00:09:20.830 --> 00:09:22.789 brought her sister and her mom over from the 00:09:22.789 --> 00:09:26.029 Philippines after a while. And so they stepped 00:09:26.029 --> 00:09:28.090 in and they like, just like I was one of their 00:09:28.090 --> 00:09:30.470 kids, you know, and my mom's baby sister was 00:09:30.470 --> 00:09:35.110 really only 15 years older than me. So, you know, 00:09:35.110 --> 00:09:37.669 she wasn't much older than me, you know, in the 00:09:37.669 --> 00:09:41.169 terms of lifespan. And, you know, there's a lot 00:09:41.169 --> 00:09:44.230 of respect, you know, in the culture, right. 00:09:44.269 --> 00:09:47.090 You know, a lot of deference to age and wisdom. 00:09:49.219 --> 00:09:51.799 Sometimes not so good, but for the most part 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:56.600 with good intentions. The food is amazing. You 00:09:56.600 --> 00:09:59.320 know, I'm married, you know, I'm married to a 00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:03.340 gal who grew up in Colorado in the Midwest. And 00:10:03.340 --> 00:10:07.000 she's learned how to cook like chicken adobo 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:09.759 and lumpia and pancit. You know, she learned 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:13.639 from my mom. uh and in in just this kind of you 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:15.500 know i didn't have a big family growing up now 00:10:15.500 --> 00:10:17.779 i have a big family i've got a very large family 00:10:17.779 --> 00:10:21.580 um but it it really emphasized the importance 00:10:21.580 --> 00:10:24.120 of like taking care of your family and and being 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:25.919 there for each other and that's that's probably 00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:28.799 the most impressive thing i got out of growing 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:33.340 up as a child I heard, God, I'm blanking on Theo 00:10:33.340 --> 00:10:35.759 Vaughn. That's who it was. There was a clip that 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:38.580 came. Happy people. Yeah, exactly. So what is 00:10:38.580 --> 00:10:41.240 it when you reflect about that culture that creates 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:42.700 that? Because that's what we're missing, isn't 00:10:42.700 --> 00:10:44.679 it? It's that gratitude. It's that community. 00:10:44.879 --> 00:10:49.480 Yes. Yeah. My Aunt Evelyn had the best laugh 00:10:49.480 --> 00:10:53.960 and the most infectious laugh. And I'll probably 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:56.500 share this with her daughter because. When I 00:10:56.500 --> 00:10:59.659 got older and we moved to Vegas, I actually lived 00:10:59.659 --> 00:11:02.259 with Evelyn because her and her husband worked 00:11:02.259 --> 00:11:05.860 different shifts. And so I would take care of 00:11:05.860 --> 00:11:08.220 Carrie Ann, my little cousin, who was only 16 00:11:08.220 --> 00:11:10.179 years younger than me. So it's kind of the same 00:11:10.179 --> 00:11:12.899 age gap. So it's like it did come full circle 00:11:12.899 --> 00:11:15.840 and I was happy to do it. And Carrie Ann's probably 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:20.100 one of the closest relatives that I have that 00:11:20.100 --> 00:11:22.120 I love and adore. And I feel the same way about 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:25.740 her that her mom felt about me. So what is it 00:11:25.740 --> 00:11:27.159 about the culture, though, do you think that 00:11:27.159 --> 00:11:30.480 creates that happy people element? I mean, because 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:32.759 even cruising, there's a lot of Filipino people 00:11:32.759 --> 00:11:35.759 that work on cruise lines. And it's kind of sad 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:37.340 because they're away from their family for like 00:11:37.340 --> 00:11:39.080 eight months, but they're sending money back. 00:11:39.179 --> 00:11:41.000 Eight months, yeah. I just experienced that. 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:44.379 We were on a cruise recently and people look 00:11:44.379 --> 00:11:47.500 at me and I look Latino. And I talk to my babies 00:11:47.500 --> 00:11:51.419 in Tagalog all the time. I was fortunate enough 00:11:51.419 --> 00:11:54.080 that growing up, I learned it and I spoke it. 00:11:54.759 --> 00:11:57.500 which really messes with people when I meet Filipinos 00:11:57.500 --> 00:11:59.019 and they speak and they just kind of look at 00:11:59.019 --> 00:12:01.740 me and they just kind of do a dance. Why is this 00:12:01.740 --> 00:12:05.179 Latino guy speaking to me in Tagalog? But no, 00:12:05.419 --> 00:12:08.960 I, yeah, it's, I don't know what it is about 00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:11.679 the culture. I think it's just the, something 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:14.259 in the DNA, man. You know, like there's just 00:12:14.259 --> 00:12:16.559 something about those people that they're just 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:18.580 so happy and they're so loving and they're so 00:12:18.580 --> 00:12:22.309 generous too. like they will just give you the 00:12:22.309 --> 00:12:25.149 shirt off of their backs like anytime i when 00:12:25.149 --> 00:12:27.769 we first moved to colorado springs we we put 00:12:27.769 --> 00:12:30.669 our boys in tutoring and and like the the lady 00:12:30.669 --> 00:12:34.389 at the at the at the center that we was was doing 00:12:34.389 --> 00:12:38.580 the tutoring um you know Found out I was Filipino 00:12:38.580 --> 00:12:41.159 and we started talking and she was like, oh, 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:43.259 here, you got to contact this person. You know, 00:12:43.259 --> 00:12:46.100 this is a restaurant and like these people will 00:12:46.100 --> 00:12:47.799 take care of you and all these other things. 00:12:47.860 --> 00:12:49.519 And I just absolutely loved it. It was it was 00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:53.279 awesome. But, yeah, I don't know what it is about 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:57.179 the people. I think it's honestly just this village 00:12:57.179 --> 00:13:00.360 kind of culture that this tribal kind of culture 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:03.779 that we've gotten away from, especially with 00:13:03.779 --> 00:13:08.240 like these types of things, you know. um there's 00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:10.759 a great book by sebastian younger called tribe 00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:13.940 um i you know you're smiling because you've probably 00:13:13.940 --> 00:13:16.200 read it yeah he's been on the show five times 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:19.159 now i think oh that's right i saw that yeah i 00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:21.820 saw that he's amazing and um and that yeah i 00:13:21.820 --> 00:13:25.139 i love that book and it and it it tells such 00:13:25.139 --> 00:13:28.120 a beautiful picture of you know and it's the 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:30.580 same thing in the military and in the fire service 00:13:30.580 --> 00:13:33.100 you know right like those your houses are tight 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:36.080 Right. Like, you know, shifts are tight. Right. 00:13:36.139 --> 00:13:37.620 There's always this inner shift competition. 00:13:38.580 --> 00:13:41.080 Same thing in the military platoon versus platoon 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:44.100 company versus company. A lot of that is free 00:13:44.100 --> 00:13:46.419 decor and loyalty and lifting each other up. 00:13:47.179 --> 00:13:49.899 And it helps you. It helps build resiliency, 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:52.379 which he describes so beautifully in that book. 00:13:53.139 --> 00:13:56.840 So I think it really has a lot to do with that 00:13:56.840 --> 00:13:59.879 kind of that tribal or village culture that a 00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:02.539 lot of Filipinos. find themselves in in their 00:14:02.539 --> 00:14:04.159 families you know because filipino families man 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:06.100 like they're huge right like my mom had like 00:14:06.100 --> 00:14:09.480 seven sisters right or six sisters and a brother 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:13.159 and um and each of them have like six kids each 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:16.519 right so we have like these massive families 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:18.480 that are just like you know tunnel and dichos 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:22.440 running around and later south of manila um but 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:24.919 yeah it's it's it's bonkers but i do really think 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:27.460 it boils back to that kind of that tribal village 00:14:27.460 --> 00:14:30.649 kind of culture yeah 100%. The other thing is 00:14:30.649 --> 00:14:33.250 the aging. My wife is already six years younger 00:14:33.250 --> 00:14:36.129 than me and she's half Filipino. So, you know, 00:14:36.149 --> 00:14:38.389 we joke that people think that I'm some creepy 00:14:38.389 --> 00:14:40.269 old dude that got her in a catalog. And that's 00:14:40.269 --> 00:14:41.750 actually the opposite. I'm the immigrant and 00:14:41.750 --> 00:14:47.289 she got me from a catalog. It's awesome, man. 00:14:47.490 --> 00:14:50.250 Yeah. All right. Well, then you mentioned about 00:14:50.250 --> 00:14:52.830 your father not being in the picture. You know, 00:14:52.830 --> 00:14:57.120 so many of us have struggles. in our early life 00:14:57.120 --> 00:15:00.159 and that sends us into uniform. When you reflect 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:02.299 back now, because usually there seems to be a 00:15:02.299 --> 00:15:04.519 common denominator with when people find themselves 00:15:04.519 --> 00:15:08.299 on the good path, despite some challenges when 00:15:08.299 --> 00:15:11.899 they were younger, there often is a mentor or 00:15:11.899 --> 00:15:14.340 several mentors that were able to steer them 00:15:14.340 --> 00:15:17.019 the right way. When you reflect back now, were 00:15:17.019 --> 00:15:22.220 there those key figures in your upbringing? Man. 00:15:26.179 --> 00:15:29.320 So, yeah, you know, there was a guy named Mike 00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:34.240 Baker that that was really influential in my 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:38.179 life. My mom, my mom was with him for a while 00:15:38.179 --> 00:15:41.639 and, you know, they split up eventually. But 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:45.340 he, you know, taught me how to work on cars, 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:49.460 taught me how to swing a hammer, taught me about 00:15:49.460 --> 00:15:51.539 discipline. He was a he was an entrepreneur. 00:15:53.060 --> 00:15:57.519 You know, he had a patent for a device for a 00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:00.919 Harley Davidson so that you could check your 00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:03.279 oil without having to like, you know, pop the 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:06.580 bolt off the oil pan and like check it manually. 00:16:07.220 --> 00:16:10.580 He was just always thinking and always working 00:16:10.580 --> 00:16:13.820 hard. And I always thought to myself, like, man, 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:16.789 that guy. that guy has it together you know he's 00:16:16.789 --> 00:16:19.070 he's getting his stuff done he's very disciplined 00:16:19.070 --> 00:16:21.710 worked really hard he was an electrician he worked 00:16:21.710 --> 00:16:25.409 in trades um and yeah so when when i think about 00:16:25.409 --> 00:16:27.789 positive male role models he's the first person 00:16:27.789 --> 00:16:30.690 that i think about that taught me a lot about 00:16:30.690 --> 00:16:34.009 you know the grind right like just getting up 00:16:34.009 --> 00:16:39.059 in the morning going um you know, doing what 00:16:39.059 --> 00:16:41.100 you said you do, getting, you know, finishing 00:16:41.100 --> 00:16:44.240 projects on time, that sort of stuff, that really 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:47.259 impressed me as a kid growing up. And when I've 00:16:47.259 --> 00:16:50.919 had a chance to reflect on that, he has been 00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:54.960 the person that really comes to mind. Well, going 00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:56.639 back to, you know, what you're talking about 00:16:56.639 --> 00:16:59.240 with Filipino culture, you know, this is what 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:00.820 we're missing now. And, you know, Sebastian's 00:17:00.820 --> 00:17:04.240 book is absolutely spot on. And there's a lot 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:08.690 of... judgmental narrative when it comes to young 00:17:08.690 --> 00:17:11.349 people that aren't headed in the right direction. 00:17:11.450 --> 00:17:13.089 It's always these broken families. It's like, 00:17:13.150 --> 00:17:15.029 well, those children didn't get to choose the 00:17:15.029 --> 00:17:18.130 fact that their families are broken. So the solution 00:17:18.130 --> 00:17:21.410 is the mentors then. So for each one of us that 00:17:21.410 --> 00:17:23.170 are in our homes, hopefully we've been able to 00:17:23.170 --> 00:17:26.309 be good parents and good loving husbands or wives. 00:17:26.509 --> 00:17:29.250 The next step is to step outside your front door. 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:32.519 and be that mentor for someone else in your community, 00:17:32.579 --> 00:17:35.519 whether you're a sports coach or, you know, a 00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:38.039 firefighter or whatever it is, fill that gap 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:40.220 rather than standing on an ivory tower saying, 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:43.059 well, that family's, you know, disintegrated. 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:46.500 That's why that child is a problem. Yeah. Pointing 00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:49.500 fingers at problems never like that does nothing. 00:17:50.219 --> 00:17:53.319 Right. Like it does absolutely nothing if you 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:55.819 have to get involved in these sorts of things. 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:58.640 Right. And, you know, my wife and I, we try to 00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:00.319 support in each way that we can. You know, we've 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:05.039 we've we've looked at or we've applied to becoming 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:07.019 like a cadet sponsor for the Air Force Academy 00:18:07.019 --> 00:18:11.119 out here so that they have a family. You know, 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:13.940 we we try to get involved as much as we can. 00:18:15.549 --> 00:18:17.950 you know before we moved here and the company 00:18:17.950 --> 00:18:21.269 got too big i used to coach jiu jitsu and judo 00:18:21.269 --> 00:18:25.890 for my last gym um and specifically the kids 00:18:25.890 --> 00:18:28.750 right because i i like kids are so malleable 00:18:28.750 --> 00:18:31.410 and they're so impressionable and you know one 00:18:31.410 --> 00:18:33.230 of the things i would always try to work on with 00:18:33.230 --> 00:18:35.230 them is like hey you know your parent brought 00:18:35.230 --> 00:18:37.009 you here make sure you tell them thanks right 00:18:37.009 --> 00:18:38.829 because it takes a lot of time out of their day 00:18:38.829 --> 00:18:42.809 um and and yeah i know i wholeheartedly agree 00:18:42.809 --> 00:18:45.420 like getting involved Rather than pointing a 00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:48.599 finger, you know, kind of helps us progress forward 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:50.400 as opposed to just kind of sitting around. And 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:52.859 like you said, sitting in an ivory tower and 00:18:52.859 --> 00:18:55.380 it's like, well, that's why it's all messed up. 00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:59.299 Right. Exactly. Well, speaking of sports, what 00:18:59.299 --> 00:19:01.220 were you playing and doing in the school ages? 00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:05.680 Oh, man. So a lot of basketball, as most Filipinos 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:10.559 do. Right. People don't think about it. Right. 00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:14.089 But like, you know, Filipinos love to ball. And 00:19:14.089 --> 00:19:16.690 they're good, man. They've got a wicked crossover. 00:19:16.970 --> 00:19:18.789 They can shoot from the outside. They drive through 00:19:18.789 --> 00:19:24.250 the paint. So played a lot of basketball, surfed 00:19:24.250 --> 00:19:27.450 and boogie boarded a lot. And that was really 00:19:27.450 --> 00:19:29.410 it. You know, I didn't do a lot of team sports. 00:19:29.569 --> 00:19:33.170 I remember being young and asking my mom if I 00:19:33.170 --> 00:19:36.630 could do a team sport. And it required a physical. 00:19:37.130 --> 00:19:40.630 And her biggest concern was that I would get 00:19:40.630 --> 00:19:43.269 injured. and and break something and we didn't 00:19:43.269 --> 00:19:46.849 have insurance growing up so that was always 00:19:46.849 --> 00:19:49.289 the fear so that was it you know it wasn't to 00:19:49.289 --> 00:19:51.630 me it wasn't a fight worth fighting so i would 00:19:51.630 --> 00:19:55.470 just play streetball right i'd always i'd go 00:19:55.470 --> 00:19:59.289 surf or do something like that um so yeah those 00:19:59.289 --> 00:20:01.269 were the things that i did i skateboarded a lot 00:20:01.269 --> 00:20:05.069 man i skateboarded so much course that's like 00:20:05.069 --> 00:20:06.809 the natural thing to do when you grow up in hawaii 00:20:06.809 --> 00:20:08.930 right like you surf you skateboard you do all 00:20:08.930 --> 00:20:10.769 those things i don't know if skateboarding is 00:20:10.769 --> 00:20:15.029 safer than basketball though yeah yeah yeah i 00:20:15.029 --> 00:20:18.349 don't know well you mentioned about you know 00:20:18.349 --> 00:20:20.349 joining the military you know you're in this 00:20:20.349 --> 00:20:23.049 medical program and then the towers yeah so kind 00:20:23.049 --> 00:20:24.970 of walk me through what that looked like through 00:20:24.970 --> 00:20:30.869 your eyes then um i had plans you know i wanted 00:20:30.869 --> 00:20:34.690 to I was looking at going to medical school, 00:20:35.009 --> 00:20:38.670 possibly doing a combined PhD program because 00:20:38.670 --> 00:20:41.809 I was enjoying research as a senior in college. 00:20:42.349 --> 00:20:46.809 I worked in a forensics lab my senior year. Throughout 00:20:46.809 --> 00:20:50.650 college, I did a ton of odd jobs. I bartended. 00:20:50.789 --> 00:20:55.109 I waited tables. The old GI Bill was not nearly 00:20:55.109 --> 00:20:57.829 as robust as the post -9 -11 GI Bill. I think 00:20:57.829 --> 00:21:01.609 it got like $250 a month. Um, and then I took 00:21:01.609 --> 00:21:04.069 a scholarship from the university, uh, that was 00:21:04.069 --> 00:21:07.789 a campus -based ROTC scholarship. Um, but so 00:21:07.789 --> 00:21:09.670 you still had to work and survive, right? Like 00:21:09.670 --> 00:21:11.509 it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like the new, 00:21:11.529 --> 00:21:13.869 you know, the new GI Bill, which is fantastic. 00:21:14.230 --> 00:21:15.950 And I think it's a great program for veterans. 00:21:17.069 --> 00:21:20.970 Um, so yeah, I had all these plans and then watching 00:21:20.970 --> 00:21:25.730 all of that happen, kind of, um, you know, you, 00:21:25.750 --> 00:21:28.190 you go through this shock, right? You, you go 00:21:28.190 --> 00:21:33.349 through this. really kind of helplessness um 00:21:33.349 --> 00:21:37.910 and then you know as you as you span the emotions 00:21:37.910 --> 00:21:41.329 and you go through it you you you think to yourself 00:21:41.329 --> 00:21:44.190 okay well i have to contribute i have i have 00:21:44.190 --> 00:21:47.569 to give back um i want i want to do more and 00:21:47.569 --> 00:21:50.750 so that's kind of where i was and that's kind 00:21:50.750 --> 00:21:52.890 of that was my thought process as it happened 00:21:52.890 --> 00:21:58.380 and then um and then yeah you know um These invisible 00:21:58.380 --> 00:22:01.420 strings just tug us to different locations as 00:22:01.420 --> 00:22:04.740 we go through the motions of our careers. And 00:22:04.740 --> 00:22:06.839 you meet people along the way and they influence 00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:08.680 your career and you meet another person, influence 00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:13.259 your career. Yeah. So where did you find yourself 00:22:13.259 --> 00:22:18.759 deployed? Iraq and Afghanistan. So the initial 00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:22.440 push into Iraq. Hang on real quick. The initial 00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:26.180 push into Iraq for. uh the first democratic re 00:22:26.180 --> 00:22:33.559 -elections um then you know deploy refit deploy 00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:40.119 military schools along the way um pa school afghanistan 00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:47.180 um and then uh after afghanistan I honestly thought 00:22:47.180 --> 00:22:49.539 I was in the free and clear until I retired because 00:22:49.539 --> 00:22:52.220 they were doing these redeployment cycles. And 00:22:52.220 --> 00:22:54.119 then they hit me one more time. They're like, 00:22:54.220 --> 00:22:56.859 hey, you need to go to Korea. So I went to Korea 00:22:56.859 --> 00:23:00.440 one last time just before I retired. But yeah, 00:23:00.460 --> 00:23:03.700 just Iraq and Afghanistan. Baghdad, outside of 00:23:03.700 --> 00:23:09.960 Baghdad nearby. And then Afghanistan at Fob Fenty 00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:15.920 on the eastern side of Afghanistan. A kind of 00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:18.339 reoccurring theme for people that went to Iraq 00:23:18.339 --> 00:23:22.619 early was initially they were received really 00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:25.599 well by the locals. And it seems to be the longer 00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:29.099 we stayed, the more people changed. So what was 00:23:29.099 --> 00:23:32.680 your kind of perception of that reception? So 00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:36.819 one thing I was not mad about with regards to 00:23:36.819 --> 00:23:40.259 changes was how the living conditions improved. 00:23:44.410 --> 00:23:47.269 it did take a quick change right like you know 00:23:47.269 --> 00:23:51.269 we we went from like this big push into an insurgency 00:23:51.269 --> 00:23:54.750 um and the insurgency got really dicey right 00:23:54.750 --> 00:23:56.390 they you know they weren't you know quote unquote 00:23:56.390 --> 00:23:59.910 playing by the rules anymore um this became a 00:23:59.910 --> 00:24:02.670 counter -insurgency fight as opposed to you know 00:24:02.670 --> 00:24:06.789 what we had spent everything after the gulf war 00:24:06.789 --> 00:24:09.650 was still focused on these big peer -to -peer 00:24:09.650 --> 00:24:11.789 fights and now you're fighting this war where 00:24:11.789 --> 00:24:14.880 you know Some dude in pajamas could come around 00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:17.460 the corner and, you know, light you up or trigger 00:24:17.460 --> 00:24:22.259 an IED and you wouldn't even know it. So, yeah, 00:24:22.339 --> 00:24:26.500 it was it was it was a big change. I think the 00:24:26.500 --> 00:24:31.859 people, the people who were there that wanted 00:24:31.859 --> 00:24:36.200 to embrace the regime change really enjoyed it. 00:24:36.759 --> 00:24:39.380 Um, and we're really supportive of what we were 00:24:39.380 --> 00:24:41.759 doing as we came in, but the longer our presence 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:44.660 lingered without, and, you know, I'm not a strategist, 00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:47.759 right? Like, so I'm, and you know, I wasn't in 00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:49.880 the rooms making these decisions, but the longer 00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:53.140 we stayed, the more we got ourselves involved, 00:24:53.380 --> 00:24:56.299 the, the, the less our presence was tolerated. 00:24:57.059 --> 00:24:58.960 It's just, I think it's an important conversation. 00:24:59.099 --> 00:25:01.259 It's the same with COVID, you know, I, during 00:25:01.259 --> 00:25:04.779 the whole. COVID period, everything I was putting 00:25:04.779 --> 00:25:07.640 out was how can an individual improve their own 00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:09.440 health? That's the one truth, whether you choose 00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:11.920 to have a vaccine and your response to that immunization, 00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:14.619 whether you choose not to, your natural immunity, 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:17.599 the healthier the people, the higher the chance 00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:20.940 of a healthy outcome. And the end of the COVID. 00:25:21.580 --> 00:25:23.440 No one wanted to learn any lessons. They swept 00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:24.839 it under the rug and they would just want to 00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:26.380 pretend it never happened, you know, and then 00:25:26.380 --> 00:25:29.819 move on. And it's the same with war. After 20 00:25:29.819 --> 00:25:32.079 years, it's important that we do have these conversations 00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:36.160 and hearing. Yeah. Yeah. How do you prevent future 00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:39.779 mistakes? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even with 00:25:39.779 --> 00:25:41.680 Afghanistan, you know, the number of people that 00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:43.440 said, well, you know, A, we should have gone 00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:47.440 in with SFSO. communities you know be kind of 00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:50.359 surgical with our our you know strikes remove 00:25:50.359 --> 00:25:53.640 the key people remove the training areas and 00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:57.920 then get out and the same with with iraq um and 00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:01.079 uh so yeah and it just it makes perfect sense 00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:02.900 to a complete ding dong like me that's never 00:26:02.900 --> 00:26:04.759 been in the military that yeah the longer you 00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:06.700 stay the more it feels like an occupation for 00:26:06.700 --> 00:26:09.140 those people the more enemies you're now creating 00:26:10.179 --> 00:26:12.339 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you're telling them 00:26:12.339 --> 00:26:13.779 how to run their government, right? Like you're 00:26:13.779 --> 00:26:16.640 not giving them the autonomy that they want to 00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:20.579 have. You're influencing policy and you're changing 00:26:20.579 --> 00:26:24.200 generations of learned behavior and hoping that 00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:27.440 they're just going to embrace it. So odds are 00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:30.319 they're not. Yeah. Well, even with Afghanistan, 00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:31.940 one thing I heard over and over again was also 00:26:31.940 --> 00:26:34.160 the tribalism. There was a misunderstanding that 00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:37.039 it wasn't a country. It was a group of tribes 00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:39.220 that weren't necessarily communicating with each 00:26:39.220 --> 00:26:42.900 other. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to a degree 00:26:42.900 --> 00:26:44.920 they do. Right. But like, who's the one doing 00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:47.019 the communicating to, right? Like that's, that's 00:26:47.019 --> 00:26:49.579 the other thing, right? It's, it's not, people 00:26:49.579 --> 00:26:52.440 have a hard time understanding the world over 00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:56.960 there when, you know, I can walk outside and 00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:58.920 do whatever with my cell phone, right? Like I 00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:02.140 can surf Facebook, Instagram, you know, call 00:27:02.140 --> 00:27:04.880 my cousin in Alaska and get an update, you know, 00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:07.339 call friends in Hawaii and see how the tsunami 00:27:07.339 --> 00:27:11.940 is over there in real time. But that's not accessible 00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:14.200 to everybody. We've made things so accessible 00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:16.960 in Western society that we've gotten used to 00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:19.160 receiving information at such a fast rate that 00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:21.359 we can make a little bit better or informed decisions. 00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:24.700 But over there, that tribalism, they may still 00:27:24.700 --> 00:27:29.220 be sending messages by freaking courier, right? 00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:31.359 Or they have cell phones set up, but there's 00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:35.119 only key individuals with cell phones. That's 00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:37.460 a question I always ask anyone who was deployed, 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:40.759 excuse me, deployed during combat. And the reason 00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:44.599 being, when you look at American media, you get 00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:48.539 a very polarized, you know, kind of feed when 00:27:48.539 --> 00:27:50.960 it comes to war. Either, you know, the one extreme 00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:52.900 is kill them all, let God sort them out, stack 00:27:52.900 --> 00:27:54.859 in bodies. The other side is they're all baby 00:27:54.859 --> 00:27:57.519 killers. And in the middle are the men and women 00:27:57.519 --> 00:27:59.480 that we send overseas, you know, wearing our 00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:01.720 flag on their shoulder, you know, to protect 00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:05.880 the people that they're serving. So the first 00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:08.140 is a two part question. The first part, regardless 00:28:08.140 --> 00:28:10.519 of the politics, regardless of the information 00:28:10.519 --> 00:28:13.279 that sent you into these countries, were there 00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:15.779 moments where you realize that within those nations, 00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:17.920 there were some horrific people that did need 00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:22.539 to be addressed? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. 00:28:22.619 --> 00:28:25.680 No, I mean, what comes to mind was a police station 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:30.559 bombing that like, you know, killed dozens of 00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:36.220 innocent people that were bystanders. um, you 00:28:36.220 --> 00:28:38.799 know, like it's your own countrymen, right? Like 00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:41.960 it's your neighborhood potentially, and you're 00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:43.880 doing things like that. And you just have to 00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:46.279 really ask, you just really scratch your head. 00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:50.000 Like what compels a person in, in that area to 00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:54.119 do things like that, right? Like, um, yeah, no, 00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:56.579 I, I totally agree there. There were some very 00:28:56.579 --> 00:28:59.960 evil people with an agenda that had the power 00:28:59.960 --> 00:29:03.480 that did not want to lose the power. And we're 00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:06.140 grasping at straws and doing things that were 00:29:06.140 --> 00:29:08.839 unconscionable just to get those things done. 00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:13.200 What was the contrast for you between Iraq and 00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:15.500 the way that civilization was and Afghanistan? 00:29:17.819 --> 00:29:22.119 Man, you know, in a lot of ways, Iraq was a lot 00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:24.980 more modern than the area of Afghanistan that 00:29:24.980 --> 00:29:28.740 we were in, you know. You know, accessibility 00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:31.039 was really a big issue, too. You know, like you 00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:33.180 don't have the terrain obstacles that you do 00:29:33.180 --> 00:29:36.599 in Iraq than you do in regions of Afghanistan, 00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:39.559 at least the area that I was in. Right. Like, 00:29:39.559 --> 00:29:43.140 I mean, we you know, it wasn't traveling through 00:29:43.140 --> 00:29:47.859 mountainsides on frickin, you know. barely six 00:29:47.859 --> 00:29:51.299 feet wide trails you know i mean i would go and 00:29:51.299 --> 00:29:53.819 visit some of our medics on another fob because 00:29:53.819 --> 00:29:55.720 they were kind of isolated and some of our people 00:29:55.720 --> 00:29:58.880 on another fob and i would take you know we shuttle 00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:01.359 aircraft over there like i just take a helicopter 00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:03.779 right over the mountain ridge and then come back 00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:07.000 otherwise it'd be a forever ride right down an 00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:09.740 area that could be potentially riddled with ieds 00:30:09.740 --> 00:30:14.119 but uh you know it's to me it was the geography 00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:19.500 and um you know probably i feel like that geography 00:30:19.500 --> 00:30:22.140 probably played a lot in terms of that tribalism 00:30:22.140 --> 00:30:24.960 that you were discussing earlier right like as 00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:26.859 if it's over the mountain and this is your plot 00:30:26.859 --> 00:30:29.660 of land you should you know probably not too 00:30:29.660 --> 00:30:31.380 worried about the other side of the mountain 00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:33.859 yeah it's interesting i've never never even thought 00:30:33.859 --> 00:30:36.349 about that but that makes a lot of sense What 00:30:36.349 --> 00:30:38.789 about kindness and compassion? This is the other 00:30:38.789 --> 00:30:40.849 side that we don't hear on the media, which is 00:30:40.849 --> 00:30:43.170 whether it's the kindness and compassion of our 00:30:43.170 --> 00:30:45.369 own military or whether it's the indigenous people 00:30:45.369 --> 00:30:51.410 that we're working with. I was very rarely met 00:30:51.410 --> 00:30:56.509 with people that were not kind or compassionate, 00:30:56.589 --> 00:31:01.569 giving you gifts, having dinners with leaders. 00:31:03.819 --> 00:31:08.279 with very lavish like food organization. Right. 00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:12.640 And, um, yeah, I mean, the, the people there 00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:14.740 were really kind and, and, and, and that same 00:31:14.740 --> 00:31:17.599 token, like, you know, the guys that I was over 00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:19.920 there with too, were just as kind to, you know, 00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:22.579 sharing MRE candy, sharing candies with kids 00:31:22.579 --> 00:31:27.000 and, you know, you know, like the, the little 00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:29.099 kids in Iraq running up to you going, Mr. Mr. 00:31:29.220 --> 00:31:31.650 Chocolate. chocolate mister you know like asking 00:31:31.650 --> 00:31:35.170 you for chocolate and stuff um yeah so i mean 00:31:35.170 --> 00:31:36.930 it just became one of those things that are normal 00:31:36.930 --> 00:31:38.710 now you know there were other times you go out 00:31:38.710 --> 00:31:42.009 on patrol it'd be like a little i remember sewing 00:31:42.009 --> 00:31:44.150 up a kid who got who took a rock to the face 00:31:44.150 --> 00:31:45.970 you know because he's sitting in the back of 00:31:45.970 --> 00:31:47.990 his patrol vehicle like driving down the street 00:31:47.990 --> 00:31:50.509 and like you know some little some little badass 00:31:50.509 --> 00:31:52.630 kid just like chucks a rock at his vehicle and 00:31:52.630 --> 00:31:55.420 it hits him in the face And, you know, the amount 00:31:55.420 --> 00:31:59.000 of restraint required to handle that too, when 00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:02.200 you're 19 years old and you're behind a gun system 00:32:02.200 --> 00:32:08.119 is pretty incredible. But, you know, you see 00:32:08.119 --> 00:32:10.519 both ends of the spectrum, I guess is what I'm 00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:12.279 trying to say. But I think for the most part, 00:32:12.339 --> 00:32:16.779 we saw more kindness than we did, you know, ill 00:32:16.779 --> 00:32:21.720 intent, especially from the younger kids. Not, 00:32:21.859 --> 00:32:25.279 you know, I... I can't say, I can't, I don't 00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:26.960 know that I can say that about some of the adults 00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:30.579 that we ran into. Yeah. It's an important perspective 00:32:30.579 --> 00:32:32.380 for people to hear though, because again, you 00:32:32.380 --> 00:32:34.059 know, they're painting as the boogeyman, you 00:32:34.059 --> 00:32:36.559 know, and you hear so many of these stories and, 00:32:36.579 --> 00:32:38.880 you know, these, these families, you know, dad's 00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:41.539 fixing the car and mom's in this particular case, 00:32:41.559 --> 00:32:43.319 making dinner and the kids are out kicking a 00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:44.680 football. And that could be England. That could 00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:46.380 be America. It could be anywhere else on the 00:32:46.380 --> 00:32:52.089 planet. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I, I totally agree. 00:32:52.269 --> 00:32:54.309 Right. Like what would happen if, if we were 00:32:54.309 --> 00:32:58.230 suddenly invaded and occupied? Yeah. A hundred 00:32:58.230 --> 00:33:00.529 percent. Well, you mentioned Korea as well. So 00:33:00.529 --> 00:33:02.990 talk to me about some of the interesting elements 00:33:02.990 --> 00:33:05.190 of the Korean culture you're exposed to. And, 00:33:05.289 --> 00:33:09.289 you know, if any threat. Super, super friendly 00:33:09.289 --> 00:33:12.089 people, very active people. I was always impressed. 00:33:12.210 --> 00:33:17.150 So my, my last, you know, I was there from 2016 00:33:17.150 --> 00:33:23.519 to 2017. And I was with a good group of guys. 00:33:23.579 --> 00:33:27.220 I worked in the division surgeon's office and 00:33:27.220 --> 00:33:34.339 we would hike something every weekend. And man, 00:33:34.460 --> 00:33:37.880 Koreans just have the most amazing trail management 00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:41.619 system. And you would see like people in their 00:33:41.619 --> 00:33:45.480 70s and 80s just cruising up these massive mountains, 00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:47.220 you know, in the middle of summer, in the middle 00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:50.539 of winter. always friendly, always greeting you 00:33:50.539 --> 00:33:53.000 with a smile, happy to see you on, on the road 00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:55.980 with them. Um, you know, they're, they're not 00:33:55.980 --> 00:33:58.680 big on a personal space, right? So you get on 00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:01.039 a subway and like, you'll be crammed like sardines. 00:34:01.099 --> 00:34:02.740 And I remember, you know, a couple of my buddies 00:34:02.740 --> 00:34:05.119 were just like, God, they're so close. Like it's 00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:07.200 a culture, man. Right. Like this is, this is, 00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:09.559 this is normal for them. Right. Great public 00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:14.139 transportation system, amazing food. Um, lots 00:34:14.139 --> 00:34:18.449 of, uh, just lots of like kindness and, you know, 00:34:18.469 --> 00:34:21.190 a lot to me, a lot like, you know, Filipinos 00:34:21.190 --> 00:34:24.230 are pretty kind and happy to engage. If you, 00:34:24.230 --> 00:34:26.809 if you made an attempt to converse with them 00:34:26.809 --> 00:34:31.030 in, in Korean, they would just be over the moon. 00:34:31.070 --> 00:34:32.949 You know, they just like, Oh, you're trying, 00:34:33.050 --> 00:34:34.969 you know, like here, let me feed you. I mean, 00:34:34.989 --> 00:34:38.349 let me do some stuff for you. Just really, really 00:34:38.349 --> 00:34:40.889 good people. And I never had a bad experience 00:34:40.889 --> 00:34:43.909 during my time there the entire year. Like it 00:34:43.909 --> 00:34:45.940 was just amazing. It sounds a lot like Japanese. 00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:48.440 I lived in Japan for 15 months. And yeah, if 00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:50.780 you go to Tokyo or somewhere where the dudes 00:34:50.780 --> 00:34:52.599 with the white gloves are pushing you all onto 00:34:52.599 --> 00:35:01.539 the train. Yeah. Yeah. What about the potential 00:35:01.539 --> 00:35:03.920 threat? I think this is what's so sad about Korea 00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:06.280 is, you know, again, like Germany was, you know, 00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:09.139 you've got this. country that's cleaved free 00:35:09.139 --> 00:35:11.960 nation in the bottom and then these indoctrinated 00:35:11.960 --> 00:35:14.260 you know brainwashing in the north from what 00:35:14.260 --> 00:35:16.139 we understand from the messages that we're getting 00:35:16.139 --> 00:35:18.980 at least so what was the conversation about differences 00:35:18.980 --> 00:35:22.880 and even the threats from up north uh no they 00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:26.820 took them very seriously you know it wasn't you 00:35:26.820 --> 00:35:29.300 know the further north you go in korea the less 00:35:29.300 --> 00:35:32.519 sparse you know the the less populated it becomes, 00:35:32.820 --> 00:35:36.500 right? Because everybody knows that that area 00:35:36.500 --> 00:35:42.460 of Korea is just a giant speed bump before they 00:35:42.460 --> 00:35:45.800 get to Seoul, right? If they were to ever make 00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:49.619 a very large push down, they just know that all 00:35:49.619 --> 00:35:51.900 of those areas up front, it's kind of like our 00:35:51.900 --> 00:35:55.480 forward line of defense just becomes a speed 00:35:55.480 --> 00:35:59.260 bump for that push on the way down. So the threat's 00:35:59.260 --> 00:36:01.599 very real. You know, they take it seriously. 00:36:03.159 --> 00:36:06.099 You know, we, you know, we did exercises all 00:36:06.099 --> 00:36:09.900 the time in Korea just to kind of prepare war 00:36:09.900 --> 00:36:12.440 game, you know, medical readiness. Like, what 00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:15.340 was your, you know, you know, medical readiness 00:36:15.340 --> 00:36:21.800 was huge over there, which is, you know, part 00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:25.599 of how I feel like what we do as an organization. 00:36:26.429 --> 00:36:28.949 is different than what other organizations do 00:36:28.949 --> 00:36:30.750 is because we just kind of understand like it's 00:36:30.750 --> 00:36:33.670 really important that you understand who's fit 00:36:33.670 --> 00:36:37.030 to fight who's ready for war um because it's 00:36:37.030 --> 00:36:39.269 not you know as the saying goes you don't get 00:36:39.269 --> 00:36:41.210 to fight the army you want you fight the army 00:36:41.210 --> 00:36:44.670 you have um and so medical readiness is a key 00:36:44.670 --> 00:36:47.570 component um up there and played a big portion 00:36:47.570 --> 00:36:51.250 of that that job that's an interesting aside 00:36:51.250 --> 00:36:54.039 because you mentioned you know the the kind of 00:36:54.039 --> 00:36:56.719 overall fitness of the nation. And when I think 00:36:56.719 --> 00:36:59.500 of a Korean populace, I think of a pretty fit 00:36:59.500 --> 00:37:02.619 group, even their fire service. And then you 00:37:02.619 --> 00:37:05.320 contrast conversations I've had with Dan Bernstein 00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:08.420 and some of these other people about the struggle 00:37:08.420 --> 00:37:11.559 to find candidates for the military in the US. 00:37:11.619 --> 00:37:14.099 And you look at the fact that we are 70 % obese 00:37:14.099 --> 00:37:17.219 or overweight as a nation. There's this kind 00:37:17.219 --> 00:37:19.360 of mythology that regardless, you're just going 00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:21.719 to dip into your gun collection and be, you know. 00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:24.539 billy badass when the when the ruskies come or 00:37:24.539 --> 00:37:28.139 whatever happens but the reality is the the more 00:37:28.139 --> 00:37:31.480 unfit the nation the more vulnerable they are 00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:35.960 to attacks from other nations well the the what 00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:38.780 is it the the joint chiefs penned a paper back 00:37:38.780 --> 00:37:42.159 in was it 2012 2014 i can't remember when but 00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:44.679 they identified it as a threat to national security 00:37:44.679 --> 00:37:47.420 growing the growing obesity the growing childhood 00:37:47.420 --> 00:37:49.760 obesity rate and it's the truth and we talked 00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:52.369 about it you know at the last international physical 00:37:52.369 --> 00:37:54.510 employment standards conference we had which 00:37:54.510 --> 00:37:56.690 was out at oklahoma state university that i attended 00:37:56.690 --> 00:38:00.730 um it's not you know it's not just a us problem 00:38:00.730 --> 00:38:03.230 it's a problem in the uk it's a problem in australia 00:38:03.230 --> 00:38:08.289 um you know one of the one of the folks talking 00:38:08.289 --> 00:38:13.159 there rob had mentioned not only is it a Is it 00:38:13.159 --> 00:38:15.860 a like obesity problem? It's really a physical 00:38:15.860 --> 00:38:18.119 fitness problem. You're getting recruits that 00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:20.300 are coming in who've never run, who've never 00:38:20.300 --> 00:38:23.400 played sport because it's not mandatory or not 00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:28.820 required. And so just moving their body is challenging, 00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:32.219 right? You have these like biomechanical disadvantages 00:38:32.219 --> 00:38:35.099 because most of their life has been sedentary. 00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:39.179 Was that Rob Wilkins speaking? No, it was Rob 00:38:39.179 --> 00:38:43.230 Orr out of Bond University. Okay, yeah. Yeah. 00:38:43.230 --> 00:38:48.670 Rob's a very, very prolific author. Lots of research 00:38:48.670 --> 00:38:52.510 on load carriage and just all around great human 00:38:52.510 --> 00:38:54.489 being. That's someone I need to get on. Wasn't 00:38:54.489 --> 00:38:56.150 he one of the first people that was kind of focusing 00:38:56.150 --> 00:38:58.889 on the whole tactical athlete concept too? Yes. 00:38:58.909 --> 00:39:01.550 Yeah. Him and Jay Dawes. Yeah. Him and Jay Dawes 00:39:01.550 --> 00:39:05.690 are big tactical athlete guys. I've been talking 00:39:05.690 --> 00:39:08.510 with Rob a lot and Ben Schramm and Elisa Canetti 00:39:08.510 --> 00:39:12.000 down there. I'm looking forward to working with 00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:15.260 them more. Fantastic. Well, let's talk transition 00:39:15.260 --> 00:39:18.599 then. Firstly, the PEA program, if I'm not mistaken, 00:39:18.619 --> 00:39:19.960 it's amazing how much I've learned just doing 00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:25.059 a podcast. Yeah. Wasn't that specifically, firstly, 00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:28.039 it was a military program that then ended up 00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:30.139 in the civilian side. Wasn't it also to set you 00:39:30.139 --> 00:39:32.159 guys up for transition? Have I got that right? 00:39:32.950 --> 00:39:34.869 You're absolutely right, man. It's great that 00:39:34.869 --> 00:39:36.670 you know that. That's the history of the PA profession 00:39:36.670 --> 00:39:41.469 was founded by a physician who recognized you 00:39:41.469 --> 00:39:46.949 had a group of hospital corpsmen and combat medics 00:39:46.949 --> 00:39:50.570 coming back from Vietnam who were able to sustain 00:39:50.570 --> 00:39:55.710 combat casualties that would be beyond definitive 00:39:55.710 --> 00:40:00.349 care and sustain them for, in some cases, days. 00:40:00.449 --> 00:40:03.340 And it was just a skill. you know and and these 00:40:03.340 --> 00:40:06.360 guys were coming back and there was nothing for 00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:08.079 them once they got back right like once they 00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:10.099 got back if you told somebody you're a combat 00:40:10.099 --> 00:40:12.320 medic you couldn't even get a job at a hospital 00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:15.880 right i was like okay that's nice cool um so 00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:18.239 he started the first pa program at duke university 00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:22.280 and uh and that that was the the birthplace of 00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:26.960 our profession as pas and then um you know the 00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:29.980 military obviously you know they they have a 00:40:30.460 --> 00:40:32.519 They have a tendency to kind of lead the way 00:40:32.519 --> 00:40:35.239 in terms of like combat casualty care and trauma 00:40:35.239 --> 00:40:37.239 medicine and some of that stuff. So they quickly 00:40:37.239 --> 00:40:41.280 adopted that program and that's how it came about. 00:40:41.420 --> 00:40:43.820 But you're absolutely right. It was initially 00:40:43.820 --> 00:40:48.420 started as a transition program for medical extension 00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:51.380 of services for physicians. I actually got my 00:40:51.380 --> 00:40:53.800 degree in University of Florida and it gave me 00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:56.280 all the prereqs for the PA program, but I didn't 00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:58.570 go ahead because I... Ended up having a podcast. 00:40:58.789 --> 00:41:01.869 It took me a completely different route. If I 00:41:01.869 --> 00:41:03.510 was going to come out of the fire service, that 00:41:03.510 --> 00:41:05.650 probably would have been what I would have done. 00:41:06.210 --> 00:41:08.389 Well, then talk to me about the transition itself 00:41:08.389 --> 00:41:11.329 then. A lot of people, you know, they struggle 00:41:11.329 --> 00:41:13.389 with that and going back to Sebastian, you know, 00:41:13.389 --> 00:41:15.550 the loss of purpose, tribe, you know, identity, 00:41:15.630 --> 00:41:19.269 et cetera. How was your transition and did that 00:41:19.269 --> 00:41:23.360 PA program improve that transition process? I 00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:25.340 think it absolutely would have, right? Because 00:41:25.340 --> 00:41:29.340 otherwise, I probably honestly might still be 00:41:29.340 --> 00:41:33.679 in if I didn't transition to becoming a PA. Because 00:41:33.679 --> 00:41:37.639 I was doing fairly well as an infantry officer 00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:41.019 in the Army. I held a lot of good key positions. 00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:47.360 But I knew I was fortunate enough to have the 00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:51.519 foresight, I think, that after I... Um, I, one, 00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:53.539 I wanted to get back to something I was passionate 00:41:53.539 --> 00:41:55.780 about, which is medicine and science. And then 00:41:55.780 --> 00:41:59.420 two, um, I, you know, I, I don't know that I 00:41:59.420 --> 00:42:01.719 could write a desk for the rest of my life. I 00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:03.699 see that as I spend most of my time behind a 00:42:03.699 --> 00:42:08.719 desk now. Um, but so the, the transition really 00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:12.039 did help, right. Because after I, after I got 00:42:12.039 --> 00:42:17.159 out, um, shortly after I got out my, uh, my business 00:42:17.159 --> 00:42:21.889 partner, um, you know, offered me ownership in 00:42:21.889 --> 00:42:25.469 the company and, um, some purpose and, and also 00:42:25.469 --> 00:42:29.050 like dealing with essentially the same population 00:42:29.050 --> 00:42:32.750 of patients. Um, firefighters are a lot like, 00:42:32.849 --> 00:42:35.389 you know, service members, right. They, you know, 00:42:35.389 --> 00:42:38.389 they, uh, you know, they just, they just want 00:42:38.389 --> 00:42:41.409 to do firefighter stuff and, you know, they just 00:42:41.409 --> 00:42:43.750 need to be cleared and you have to talk to them 00:42:43.750 --> 00:42:47.929 a particular way. Um, can't bullshit them. Right. 00:42:48.780 --> 00:42:51.139 Like they know bullshit when they see it. So 00:42:51.139 --> 00:42:53.880 that's kind of a, it's kind of a core corporate 00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:56.559 quality that we have in the organizations. Like 00:42:56.559 --> 00:42:58.159 don't bullshit your patients, right? Be honest 00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:01.320 with them. And yeah, you know, it's just, and 00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:05.159 it's, and typically, typically they're willing 00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:08.820 to listen and implement things. you know i didn't 00:43:08.820 --> 00:43:10.719 have the same experience working in civilian 00:43:10.719 --> 00:43:13.119 medicine when i did work in civilian medicine 00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:16.079 i would moonlight sometimes and go work urgent 00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:18.659 cares or primary cares i spent quite a bit of 00:43:18.659 --> 00:43:22.619 time as a neurosurgical pa um and you know you'd 00:43:22.619 --> 00:43:24.000 have conversations with people and you could 00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:26.039 just tell us like in one near out the other right 00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:27.780 but if you talk to a firefighter about improving 00:43:27.780 --> 00:43:30.900 their health about you know showing them like 00:43:30.900 --> 00:43:32.579 hey these are the steps you need to take you're 00:43:32.579 --> 00:43:35.000 able to take time with them they're a lot more 00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:37.650 open that conversation than you know the gen 00:43:37.650 --> 00:43:41.690 pop i feel so give me the origin story of frontline 00:43:41.690 --> 00:43:47.469 mobile health then that's a good one so it's 00:43:47.469 --> 00:43:49.170 really weird right so i talked to you about these 00:43:49.170 --> 00:43:52.869 invisible strings so they just kind of tug you 00:43:52.869 --> 00:43:56.769 into different places um so you know i became 00:43:56.769 --> 00:44:00.630 a pa uh i after i got back from afghanistan as 00:44:00.630 --> 00:44:05.380 a pa I needed to do a career change. And so you 00:44:05.380 --> 00:44:07.440 look for different types of job opportunities. 00:44:07.579 --> 00:44:10.440 I was interested in aviation medicine. I wanted 00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:13.460 to be a medevac PA and work in a medevac unit. 00:44:13.900 --> 00:44:20.480 And so I started working towards that. And I 00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:24.769 had a boss. along the way who told me he was 00:44:24.769 --> 00:44:27.050 supportive but behind my back from one of my 00:44:27.050 --> 00:44:29.630 buddies i found out uh he was kind of shutting 00:44:29.630 --> 00:44:31.630 up shutting down my opportunities so i had a 00:44:31.630 --> 00:44:35.190 comp so i was supposed to move to the unit like 00:44:35.190 --> 00:44:37.309 six months ahead of time but i never did because 00:44:37.309 --> 00:44:39.769 i had this person in the way and i probably wouldn't 00:44:39.769 --> 00:44:42.309 have met my business partner right if i'd have 00:44:42.309 --> 00:44:46.530 gotten there earlier so fast forward i finally 00:44:46.530 --> 00:44:50.820 get to the aviation unit Go to aviation medicine 00:44:50.820 --> 00:44:53.619 course. My roommate, who's supposed to be my 00:44:53.619 --> 00:44:56.239 roommate, can't get his funding memo done in 00:44:56.239 --> 00:45:00.900 time. So Ross ends up being my roommate just 00:45:00.900 --> 00:45:03.019 by chance. And we hit it off, right? Like we 00:45:03.019 --> 00:45:06.159 get along really well. He's such a likable person 00:45:06.159 --> 00:45:08.880 and he's so passionate about medicine. And he's 00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:14.340 just he's just a good dude. And so I bring him 00:45:14.340 --> 00:45:18.860 into our unit. Right. And one night. As he's 00:45:18.860 --> 00:45:21.039 moving to Fort Hood, getting his family settled, 00:45:21.380 --> 00:45:24.820 his wife wants to make friends. And so he has 00:45:24.820 --> 00:45:26.960 a dinner conversation with some new friends. 00:45:27.079 --> 00:45:29.400 And one of them is a battalion chief at a fire 00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:31.960 department. He's like, hey, what do you do? And 00:45:31.960 --> 00:45:35.099 Russ is like, oh, I'm an aviation medicine PA. 00:45:35.320 --> 00:45:39.059 I work with aviators. And he's like, hey, what 00:45:39.059 --> 00:45:40.460 do you do? He's like, I'm a battalion chief at 00:45:40.460 --> 00:45:43.239 a fire department out here, right? So AJ and 00:45:43.239 --> 00:45:46.590 Russ have this conversation. And AJ, you know, 00:45:46.590 --> 00:45:49.010 Russ explains like, hey, so what we do is like 00:45:49.010 --> 00:45:51.349 we just essentially clear aviators for flight. 00:45:51.449 --> 00:45:52.909 Right. Like we make sure that they're healthy, 00:45:53.570 --> 00:45:56.489 they're safe, they can perform all their functions. 00:45:56.550 --> 00:45:59.670 They've got no disease. We do a screening on 00:45:59.670 --> 00:46:03.190 them annually. And AJ's ears kind of perk up 00:46:03.190 --> 00:46:04.690 and he says, hey, you ever thought about doing 00:46:04.690 --> 00:46:07.829 that for the fire service? And, you know, Russ 00:46:07.829 --> 00:46:11.269 was like, no, I never even considered it. Right. 00:46:11.309 --> 00:46:12.909 Like I'm a flight PA. Why would I even consider 00:46:12.909 --> 00:46:17.940 that? And then shortly after that, like Russ 00:46:17.940 --> 00:46:21.619 gives me a call and I swear it was like, you 00:46:21.619 --> 00:46:23.420 know, he was in a panic or somebody said, hey, 00:46:23.440 --> 00:46:25.840 meet me at Alamo Drafthouse. I got an idea for 00:46:25.840 --> 00:46:27.800 a business. I want you to like I want to talk 00:46:27.800 --> 00:46:29.420 about it with you and I'm going to need your 00:46:29.420 --> 00:46:31.940 help. So he tells me about this idea. And this 00:46:31.940 --> 00:46:34.239 is like right at the time. And I'm going to Korea 00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:37.139 for one of my terminal assignments. And I have 00:46:37.139 --> 00:46:38.940 to tell him, I say, hey, man, I'd love to help 00:46:38.940 --> 00:46:40.840 you, but I can't because I'm going to Korea. 00:46:41.869 --> 00:46:44.289 So obviously Russ and I keep in contact throughout 00:46:44.289 --> 00:46:48.010 that time. And then I get done with the military 00:46:48.010 --> 00:46:51.150 and I retire. I'm out of the military in like 00:46:51.150 --> 00:46:54.750 July. I go on like this crazy climbing trip with 00:46:54.750 --> 00:46:57.289 a buddy of mine. And we just hang out like, you 00:46:57.289 --> 00:46:59.590 know, in Colorado and Washington and British 00:46:59.590 --> 00:47:03.469 Columbia climbing. And then I finally get back 00:47:03.469 --> 00:47:06.110 to Texas, settle down. And Russ says, hey, why 00:47:06.110 --> 00:47:08.079 don't you come to the clinic? you know about 00:47:08.079 --> 00:47:10.079 that place i was telling you about so i can talk 00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:12.719 to you so i watched him do a physical for a firefighter 00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:15.900 we chat afterwards and that's how i got roped 00:47:15.900 --> 00:47:19.260 in to uh to working with frontline because ross 00:47:19.260 --> 00:47:21.099 was going to go to afghanistan in about nine 00:47:21.099 --> 00:47:23.599 months and i needed to run the company while 00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:27.539 he was gone um so the timing was actually perfect 00:47:27.539 --> 00:47:30.159 right like again those invisible strings in the 00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:32.199 meantime like during that time i was actually 00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:33.900 going to go work for an orthopedic company doing 00:47:33.900 --> 00:47:39.429 ortho trauma But I decided not to because I wanted 00:47:39.429 --> 00:47:41.829 to take a chance on Frontline and it seemed more 00:47:41.829 --> 00:47:45.050 appealing to me, working with firefighters and 00:47:45.050 --> 00:47:47.849 chatting with people and being in the community. 00:47:49.250 --> 00:47:52.489 What were some of the misconceptions that you 00:47:52.489 --> 00:47:55.809 had about my profession that were kind of myth 00:47:55.809 --> 00:47:57.730 busted when you started seeing the people walk 00:47:57.730 --> 00:48:05.599 through the door? Y 'all are healthy. probably 00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:08.980 probably the first one right probably the first 00:48:08.980 --> 00:48:10.739 because the first thing people think about whenever 00:48:10.739 --> 00:48:13.019 you say you're a firefighter is those damn calendars 00:48:13.019 --> 00:48:17.400 right exactly six pack yeah those damn calendars 00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:19.800 and uh and no you couldn't be further from the 00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:21.780 truth in some cases right like there's some pretty 00:48:21.780 --> 00:48:26.679 unhealthy people um and uh so that was probably 00:48:26.679 --> 00:48:31.880 the first one um the second one is that uh you 00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:33.940 know, you guys are fighting a fire every day. 00:48:34.719 --> 00:48:38.420 And it's like hard -ass work, hustling all the 00:48:38.420 --> 00:48:41.260 time. And I'm not saying that you don't, right? 00:48:41.340 --> 00:48:43.739 Like I don't want people in the audience to send 00:48:43.739 --> 00:48:46.559 me hate mail or anything like that. I'm just 00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:48.480 saying that like you go through these undulating 00:48:48.480 --> 00:48:54.460 phases. And, you know, and I think that's where 00:48:54.460 --> 00:48:58.880 health really plays a important role in physical 00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:03.090 and mental resiliency. Um, because when you hit 00:49:03.090 --> 00:49:06.630 those high points of operational tempo, you have 00:49:06.630 --> 00:49:09.469 to have the physiologic reserve to manage those 00:49:09.469 --> 00:49:12.070 high points. And the only way to do that is by 00:49:12.070 --> 00:49:15.170 staying healthy. Right. Um, so that was, this 00:49:15.170 --> 00:49:17.250 was number one, healthy. Number two, like you 00:49:17.250 --> 00:49:19.550 guys were always hustling and like, you know, 00:49:19.550 --> 00:49:21.389 doing all kinds of crazy stuff. And then number 00:49:21.389 --> 00:49:23.769 three, I think the biggest one was, uh, all you 00:49:23.769 --> 00:49:26.630 do is fight fires, right? Fight fires and like 00:49:26.630 --> 00:49:28.289 take care of the motor vehicle accident stuff. 00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:32.800 Like the amount of ridiculous stories I've heard 00:49:32.800 --> 00:49:37.219 from firefighters for calls that they go on has, 00:49:37.539 --> 00:49:41.139 yeah, mind boggling, right? Like the utilization 00:49:41.139 --> 00:49:48.039 of EMS services is almost like pitiful in terms 00:49:48.039 --> 00:49:50.760 of like what, you know, what firefighters get 00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:53.920 called out to do sometimes. And I feel bad for 00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:57.780 y 'all for that. One of my. You know, funniest 00:49:57.780 --> 00:50:00.920 slash most frustrating calls I ever ran on. And 00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:03.179 there was a slight psych element to this, but 00:50:03.179 --> 00:50:05.780 it was one of our frequent fires. And he called 00:50:05.780 --> 00:50:07.980 because he just got new dentures and he didn't 00:50:07.980 --> 00:50:10.800 like the taste of them. And then he starts being 00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:12.860 belligerent. So not only do I have to take him 00:50:12.860 --> 00:50:14.840 to the hospital because he requested to go to 00:50:14.840 --> 00:50:16.980 the hospital, I have to take a rider to another 00:50:16.980 --> 00:50:19.619 firefighter. He was a big lad. Because if he 00:50:19.619 --> 00:50:21.500 loses his shit, then we got to, you know, tie 00:50:21.500 --> 00:50:24.940 him down and drug him. Yeah, restraints, right? 00:50:25.019 --> 00:50:27.699 Do him with a B -52 or something. Exactly, exactly. 00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:31.500 So the magic cocktail. Yeah. So, well, then what 00:50:31.500 --> 00:50:34.679 about as far as, as you started talking to them, 00:50:34.699 --> 00:50:38.000 understanding the kind of work week, the shift 00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:41.400 cycle, the magnitude of their work versus, you 00:50:41.400 --> 00:50:43.900 know, again, all they do is sit around and, you 00:50:43.900 --> 00:50:47.489 know, smoke cigarettes and play cards. Yeah. 00:50:47.570 --> 00:50:50.989 So that's like, that's probably the thing that 00:50:50.989 --> 00:50:55.090 I've noticed across, you know, taking care of 00:50:55.090 --> 00:50:58.510 firefighters in multiple states is that, man, 00:50:59.110 --> 00:51:07.170 y 'all, you don't have, so, okay, let me break 00:51:07.170 --> 00:51:08.849 this down. So number one, the schedules are crazy 00:51:08.849 --> 00:51:12.539 to me, right? you know west coast schedule kelly 00:51:12.539 --> 00:51:17.980 schedules 24 48 48 96 is um you know modified 00:51:17.980 --> 00:51:22.699 kelly whatever you want to call it um it does 00:51:22.699 --> 00:51:30.380 not long term there's consequence right there 00:51:30.380 --> 00:51:33.539 is there is consequence to these things and when 00:51:33.539 --> 00:51:35.760 you're young and you're physically resilient 00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:39.539 because you have great physiologic reserve you're 00:51:39.539 --> 00:51:41.699 probably going to handle it fine. Right. But 00:51:41.699 --> 00:51:45.719 you know, it's like radiation, right? Like it's 00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:48.360 not, it's not the first dose. It's the accumulation 00:51:48.360 --> 00:51:51.260 of doses over time that start to really break 00:51:51.260 --> 00:51:55.380 people down and, um, where their health really 00:51:55.380 --> 00:51:57.820 starts to fall apart. Right. And we see it, we 00:51:57.820 --> 00:51:59.699 see it, right? I think there's, there's tons 00:51:59.699 --> 00:52:01.659 of literature out there that talk about cardiovascular 00:52:01.659 --> 00:52:04.940 disease and cancer rates and, and, and, you know, 00:52:04.940 --> 00:52:10.250 in public safety. And, um, And I think the shift 00:52:10.250 --> 00:52:14.150 thing is really a big component of it. And I 00:52:14.150 --> 00:52:16.769 don't have a good answer for it. You know, you 00:52:16.769 --> 00:52:21.789 can talk about 24 -72s, right? You know, that 00:52:21.789 --> 00:52:26.030 might be a healthier option for people. But I 00:52:26.030 --> 00:52:30.090 think that's also kind of situationally dependent 00:52:30.090 --> 00:52:34.690 too, right? You know, we've got a paper brewing 00:52:34.690 --> 00:52:39.809 right now. looking at 2448 transitioning to a 00:52:39.809 --> 00:52:45.349 4896. And for this particular department, it 00:52:45.349 --> 00:52:49.070 improved their systolic blood pressure whenever 00:52:49.070 --> 00:52:51.849 we looked at the analysis and it didn't really 00:52:51.849 --> 00:52:53.869 affect anything else. And they had some mild 00:52:53.869 --> 00:52:57.670 improvements in their sleep, but it's a small 00:52:57.670 --> 00:52:59.730 department, right? So single station department 00:52:59.730 --> 00:53:03.909 and their average overnight call rate is 0 .9. 00:53:05.199 --> 00:53:08.139 you know so that's not bad right like that's 00:53:08.139 --> 00:53:10.320 not but that's not going to work for a large 00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:12.900 metro department who's getting called out twice 00:53:12.900 --> 00:53:16.599 in the middle of the night um twice that's a 00:53:16.599 --> 00:53:21.199 good shift yeah yeah yeah great shit so but but 00:53:21.199 --> 00:53:23.699 you get my point right like i i think i think 00:53:23.699 --> 00:53:28.360 sleep is the slow ticking time bomb um that impacts 00:53:28.360 --> 00:53:30.300 a number of things and then and then the environment 00:53:30.300 --> 00:53:33.719 right like Because if you get into an environment 00:53:33.719 --> 00:53:35.699 where like, hey, we're going to go to Whataburger 00:53:35.699 --> 00:53:39.199 for breakfast, lunch and dinner, probably not 00:53:39.199 --> 00:53:41.179 a good idea. If you get in an environment where 00:53:41.179 --> 00:53:44.320 like, you know, fitness isn't a priority and 00:53:44.320 --> 00:53:46.099 that's where policy kind of comes into place, 00:53:46.199 --> 00:53:49.199 right? Where fitness isn't a priority, you know, 00:53:49.260 --> 00:53:51.139 it's just going to, you know, it's just going 00:53:51.139 --> 00:53:53.000 to keep chopping legs out from underneath you 00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:55.900 in terms of building, you know, some physiologic 00:53:55.900 --> 00:53:59.500 resiliency. Yeah, I mean, the one study, I don't 00:53:59.500 --> 00:54:01.440 know if it was the Joel Billings study that you're 00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:03.199 talking about or if you're doing your own, but 00:54:03.199 --> 00:54:06.980 what they found with the 4896, what Joel found, 00:54:07.119 --> 00:54:09.400 the same exact thing, you know, tiny department, 00:54:09.639 --> 00:54:13.099 less than one call a night. So basically zero 00:54:13.099 --> 00:54:16.659 a lot of times. And the actual benefits were 00:54:16.659 --> 00:54:19.760 that second 24 of the 48 and where they were 00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:22.000 comparing it is because when you got up to go 00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:24.360 to work. You were sleep deprived because you're 00:54:24.360 --> 00:54:26.300 getting up at 5 a .m. Like a lot of us do to 00:54:26.300 --> 00:54:28.019 get to the station on time because we don't live 00:54:28.019 --> 00:54:29.619 anywhere near where we work. We can't afford 00:54:29.619 --> 00:54:33.780 it. Yeah. So that is mitigated for free by changing 00:54:33.780 --> 00:54:36.300 the start time. Because if you do it. Yeah. I 00:54:36.300 --> 00:54:38.719 talked about this before. I've talked about this 00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:40.239 before. Why don't you start in the evenings? 00:54:40.480 --> 00:54:44.039 Well, not even think about this midday. Yeah. 00:54:44.139 --> 00:54:47.000 I mean, any any point where you can complete 00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:50.099 like, you know, the requisite sleep cycles and 00:54:50.099 --> 00:54:54.050 get your requisite rest, you know. i i i've always 00:54:54.050 --> 00:54:56.250 thought to myself like midday or afternoons are 00:54:56.250 --> 00:54:58.730 great because like you come in right you do your 00:54:58.730 --> 00:55:01.210 checks do your shift change and then you go to 00:55:01.210 --> 00:55:03.730 bed right like you you know you go to bed if 00:55:03.730 --> 00:55:05.389 you ever sleep cycle over and then you get off 00:55:05.389 --> 00:55:08.150 shift get home you're able to be with your family 00:55:08.150 --> 00:55:11.889 for dinner and You know, those those things, 00:55:11.949 --> 00:55:13.769 those types of things make the most sense to 00:55:13.769 --> 00:55:16.670 me. Just altering the time at which you do your 00:55:16.670 --> 00:55:19.949 shift change would be great. I know some departments 00:55:19.949 --> 00:55:21.889 that we've worked with have recently changed 00:55:21.889 --> 00:55:25.329 that. And by some, I mean like a very small percentage 00:55:25.329 --> 00:55:29.050 because they have they have kind of noticed that 00:55:29.050 --> 00:55:31.630 and they've listened. But, you know, those it's 00:55:31.630 --> 00:55:34.250 little things like that that can improve, I feel 00:55:34.250 --> 00:55:36.849 like, you know, the overall health of organizations. 00:55:37.389 --> 00:55:40.630 Yeah. I mean, the. if you did it at 11 a .m 12 00:55:40.630 --> 00:55:42.750 you know because i don't know if other people 00:55:42.750 --> 00:55:44.409 listening have the same if i've got to work in 00:55:44.409 --> 00:55:46.409 the evening i can't relax that day because i 00:55:46.409 --> 00:55:48.809 know i'm going to go to work so but you missed 00:55:48.809 --> 00:55:51.869 rush hour you actually get to wake up you know 00:55:51.869 --> 00:55:53.829 with your family have breakfast take your kids 00:55:53.829 --> 00:55:56.110 to school whatever and then you go to work and 00:55:56.110 --> 00:55:58.469 then if you're off going you don't have to wake 00:55:58.469 --> 00:56:01.210 up at 7 a .m for shift change you can sleep if 00:56:01.210 --> 00:56:03.070 you if you had three or four calls at night sleep 00:56:03.070 --> 00:56:05.190 till 10. everything's checked out if you don't 00:56:05.190 --> 00:56:07.829 get a call now you don't end up being a smear 00:56:07.829 --> 00:56:09.289 on the side of the freeway when you're trying 00:56:09.289 --> 00:56:10.929 to drive home and you end up wrecking your car 00:56:10.929 --> 00:56:13.269 so it's yeah it's a win -win and then with the 00:56:13.269 --> 00:56:18.010 2472 you know it really boils down to you know 00:56:18.010 --> 00:56:20.809 a lot of departments do run so that right hands 00:56:20.809 --> 00:56:23.530 down is the best one the quiet ones it's like 00:56:23.530 --> 00:56:26.530 you know military members in you know a hospital 00:56:26.530 --> 00:56:28.750 clinic No one's complaining that they're not 00:56:28.750 --> 00:56:32.449 taking grenades and RPGs at work. That's what 00:56:32.449 --> 00:56:35.230 happens. But each of them deserves to be at home 00:56:35.230 --> 00:56:37.269 with their family the same amount of time. So 00:56:37.269 --> 00:56:39.809 even if you are a quiet department, why does 00:56:39.809 --> 00:56:42.309 a banker go home after 40 hours and the firefighter 00:56:42.309 --> 00:56:45.039 has to work 56? So I think that's... That's the 00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:46.860 answer. If you're quiet, awesome. Then you'll 00:56:46.860 --> 00:56:48.960 be training more and you'll be holding that fitness 00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:51.400 standard. But I think that one of the biggest 00:56:51.400 --> 00:56:54.179 mistakes we make in the fire service is we hold 00:56:54.179 --> 00:56:57.139 the number of calls that we went to as a metric 00:56:57.139 --> 00:57:01.820 of our worth when if you're quiet, then you're 00:57:01.820 --> 00:57:04.260 just offsetting that with training to be prepared 00:57:04.260 --> 00:57:07.239 because, for example, how many of those horrific 00:57:07.239 --> 00:57:09.539 school shootings happened in very, very sleepy, 00:57:09.579 --> 00:57:13.880 small towns? Yeah. Yeah, no, those are, I mean, 00:57:13.880 --> 00:57:15.639 those are great. Those are great statements. 00:57:15.639 --> 00:57:18.960 And I totally agree. You just have to, you know, 00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:22.960 it's a, you're, you're having to change a lot 00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:27.139 of, you know, what I call like generational dogma, 00:57:27.139 --> 00:57:28.920 right? Like they're just this thought in place 00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:30.519 that like, no, we can't do this. We can't do 00:57:30.519 --> 00:57:32.440 that because this is going to happen. It's like, 00:57:32.460 --> 00:57:34.360 well, now we're in this big age of collecting 00:57:34.360 --> 00:57:37.260 data, right? Like, well, let's collect the data, 00:57:37.340 --> 00:57:39.769 right? Run a trial run. Right. Like, I mean, 00:57:39.789 --> 00:57:41.210 there's nothing wrong with that. Run a trial 00:57:41.210 --> 00:57:44.190 run and see how your members feel. See how, you 00:57:44.190 --> 00:57:47.030 know, things shake out after that. And the problem 00:57:47.030 --> 00:57:50.869 is always funding, you know, but there are sources 00:57:50.869 --> 00:57:53.489 for grants. There are sources out there that 00:57:53.489 --> 00:57:56.719 just take some work to get to. um that you can 00:57:56.719 --> 00:57:59.300 do those types of things well what's interesting 00:57:59.300 --> 00:58:02.199 with most departments is because we're in a recruitment 00:58:02.199 --> 00:58:04.500 crisis the money's already there but it's downstream 00:58:04.500 --> 00:58:06.639 it's the overtime it's the lack of retention 00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:09.900 it's the workman comp claims it's the you know 00:58:09.900 --> 00:58:14.050 the lawsuits so it's a it's a short -sighted 00:58:14.050 --> 00:58:17.070 fiscal you know and how do you mitigate that 00:58:17.070 --> 00:58:19.329 right like it's it's this vicious cycle really 00:58:19.329 --> 00:58:21.090 right like you talked about it right it's the 00:58:21.090 --> 00:58:23.409 overtime it's the workman's comp right well why 00:58:23.409 --> 00:58:25.909 is overtime and workman's comp happening it's 00:58:25.909 --> 00:58:27.650 because you have an unhealthy force that's getting 00:58:27.650 --> 00:58:31.730 injured um that's probably tired but if you implement 00:58:31.730 --> 00:58:34.639 some of these changes ahead of time that stuff 00:58:34.639 --> 00:58:37.159 starts to trickle back into the budget, right? 00:58:37.260 --> 00:58:40.179 Like you have fewer days off because of workman's 00:58:40.179 --> 00:58:42.719 comp, right? Like, you know, annual health and 00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:46.980 wellness screenings, right? The biggest obstacle 00:58:46.980 --> 00:58:49.380 to all of this is funding some of those things. 00:58:49.480 --> 00:58:53.320 But when you're able to paint a clear picture 00:58:53.320 --> 00:58:56.599 to the risk management people, because those 00:58:56.599 --> 00:58:58.300 are really ones that are holding the purse strings, 00:58:58.400 --> 00:59:00.719 right? It's all the risk management people. Whenever 00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:02.849 you're really able to like, paint this clear 00:59:02.849 --> 00:59:04.969 picture of like hey this is how we can reduce 00:59:04.969 --> 00:59:08.570 our time right like people also talk about like 00:59:08.570 --> 00:59:10.710 embedded strength and conditioning specialists 00:59:10.710 --> 00:59:13.889 for departments you know like man those are those 00:59:13.889 --> 00:59:16.309 are worthwhile investments that pay big dollars 00:59:16.309 --> 00:59:18.909 in the long term you know when when you look 00:59:18.909 --> 00:59:21.829 at large organizations that are spending millions 00:59:21.829 --> 00:59:27.809 of dollars on work comp and staffing um man those 00:59:27.809 --> 00:59:30.030 millions of dollars can be used in other areas 00:59:30.030 --> 00:59:33.389 just just allocate a little bit of that and just 00:59:33.389 --> 00:59:36.610 you know bet on the program and run it and then 00:59:36.610 --> 00:59:38.730 do an analysis afterwards and be able to prepare 00:59:38.730 --> 00:59:42.550 that data for risk management cd council so those 00:59:42.550 --> 00:59:44.690 things can get approved like hey look this is 00:59:44.690 --> 00:59:47.150 how many work days we saved compared to last 00:59:47.150 --> 00:59:50.570 year because we implemented this program and 00:59:50.570 --> 00:59:52.969 then you know you know when when it's black and 00:59:52.969 --> 00:59:55.090 white like that when it's objective information 00:59:55.090 --> 00:59:59.090 it's hard to refute When it's a gut feeling, 00:59:59.429 --> 01:00:04.650 people will poo -poo the idea all day long. It's 01:00:04.650 --> 01:00:06.809 interesting. I was just talking with a guest 01:00:06.809 --> 01:00:09.150 yesterday about this. There was a news article 01:00:09.150 --> 01:00:12.309 recently, and multiple agencies have reported 01:00:12.309 --> 01:00:18.050 on this. The LAFD, over three years, their overtime 01:00:18.050 --> 01:00:21.030 budget, this is FIRE specifically, overtime budget 01:00:21.030 --> 01:00:24.449 was a billion dollars with a B, over three years. 01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:27.579 So when you look at the recruitment crisis, you 01:00:27.579 --> 01:00:29.400 know, there's a reason why young people aren't 01:00:29.400 --> 01:00:31.000 becoming firefighters anymore. And it's what 01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:33.340 we're talking about. These young people have 01:00:33.340 --> 01:00:35.760 access to all things health, all things mental 01:00:35.760 --> 01:00:38.460 health. They understand the importance of relationships, 01:00:38.699 --> 01:00:42.699 being home. So when you start addressing that, 01:00:42.780 --> 01:00:44.500 because it's only 10 years ago where we were 01:00:44.500 --> 01:00:47.300 testing against thousands and thousands of people 01:00:47.300 --> 01:00:51.099 for 10, 20, in my case, it was 30 jobs, a thousand 01:00:51.099 --> 01:00:54.420 people at the written test, the 30 jobs. So it's 01:00:54.420 --> 01:00:56.219 not like, you know, it was recent that we had 01:00:56.219 --> 01:00:59.320 that kind of demand. We've just screwed, you 01:00:59.320 --> 01:01:02.559 know, by not changing everything, you know, with 01:01:02.559 --> 01:01:05.659 this information age exploding. And it was interesting 01:01:05.659 --> 01:01:07.940 because I just did an AI search the other day 01:01:07.940 --> 01:01:11.519 on the 2472. And for the first time, AI starts 01:01:11.519 --> 01:01:13.699 talking about all the health benefits, all the 01:01:13.699 --> 01:01:16.539 financial benefits. So this is what, and if you 01:01:16.539 --> 01:01:19.079 Google, is it healthy to be a firefighter? Everything 01:01:19.079 --> 01:01:21.480 that comes up is all the things that we die from. 01:01:21.900 --> 01:01:24.380 So when you talk about data. I mean, you know, 01:01:24.420 --> 01:01:27.119 just look at any firefighters Facebook or Instagram 01:01:27.119 --> 01:01:29.579 feed. It's nothing but black bands on, you know, 01:01:29.599 --> 01:01:32.860 Florian. So, you know, there's such a beautiful 01:01:32.860 --> 01:01:35.900 opportunity to turn it around. And most agencies, 01:01:36.139 --> 01:01:38.340 the money is already there, but it's downstream. 01:01:38.599 --> 01:01:41.639 And what baffles me is why those financial gurus 01:01:41.639 --> 01:01:44.320 in cities and counties aren't the ones coming 01:01:44.320 --> 01:01:46.460 to the fire departments and saying, what is going 01:01:46.460 --> 01:01:49.280 on with this overtime? There must be a better 01:01:49.280 --> 01:01:52.309 way of doing this. But it's the checks. Yeah, 01:01:52.329 --> 01:01:54.090 there's hats on, cutting checks, right? Like, 01:01:54.150 --> 01:01:57.230 yeah. And I think, you know, one of the proposed 01:01:57.230 --> 01:02:01.989 changes that was discussed at IPES, the International 01:02:01.989 --> 01:02:03.489 Physical Employment Center, I'll just call it 01:02:03.489 --> 01:02:05.829 IPES from now on, that, you know, we had like 01:02:05.829 --> 01:02:08.389 these group conversations like, hey, how do you 01:02:08.389 --> 01:02:10.250 fix this recruitment for the tactical athlete 01:02:10.250 --> 01:02:12.630 population, for the military, for the fire service, 01:02:12.670 --> 01:02:15.530 for police? And, you know, like the smartest 01:02:15.530 --> 01:02:17.610 idea I heard that came out is that like you need 01:02:17.610 --> 01:02:21.619 to have a pre -academy academy. Like, you need 01:02:21.619 --> 01:02:24.059 to have a conditioning phase before they get 01:02:24.059 --> 01:02:25.719 there, right? Like, you need to show them how 01:02:25.719 --> 01:02:28.260 to move their bodies, how to lift properly, you 01:02:28.260 --> 01:02:31.219 know, shed some pounds, right? To get them to 01:02:31.219 --> 01:02:34.460 be capable of joining. You know, culturally, 01:02:34.760 --> 01:02:38.239 we probably just need to encourage our children 01:02:38.239 --> 01:02:44.260 to move more. You know, like, my boys, you know, 01:02:44.280 --> 01:02:47.690 my kids. they can't be in the house all day like 01:02:47.690 --> 01:02:49.929 i'm kicking them out hey go get on your bike 01:02:49.929 --> 01:02:52.289 go to the store like go fishing at the lake down 01:02:52.289 --> 01:02:55.969 the road um get outside get some sun you know 01:02:55.969 --> 01:02:58.030 keep your phone on you so like i know i can get 01:02:58.030 --> 01:02:59.190 a hold of you if i need to get a hold of you 01:02:59.190 --> 01:03:01.949 um and there's nothing wrong with that right 01:03:01.949 --> 01:03:04.090 like that's just something that for some reason 01:03:04.090 --> 01:03:07.389 we've just kind of gotten away from and uh and 01:03:07.389 --> 01:03:09.630 we need more of it like they need to run they 01:03:09.630 --> 01:03:13.389 need to play and then that slowly starts to mitigate 01:03:13.949 --> 01:03:15.789 these issues that we're having in recruitment 01:03:15.789 --> 01:03:18.429 right it's just that you have to introduce it 01:03:18.429 --> 01:03:22.070 now to this generation so that in you know the 01:03:22.070 --> 01:03:24.190 next generation isn't struggling through it again 01:03:24.190 --> 01:03:27.989 um because yeah we've we've sort of created a 01:03:27.989 --> 01:03:30.710 mess in terms of the recruitment pool at the 01:03:30.710 --> 01:03:34.139 moment uh, by not focusing on these things that, 01:03:34.139 --> 01:03:36.239 you know, guys from, you know, I, I hate sounding 01:03:36.239 --> 01:03:38.219 like a crabby old fart, but like, you know, back 01:03:38.219 --> 01:03:40.719 in our day, right. Like drinking from the hose 01:03:40.719 --> 01:03:42.659 and running around the neighborhood and, you 01:03:42.659 --> 01:03:45.219 know, staying out. So the, you know, streetlights 01:03:45.219 --> 01:03:49.000 came on was totally a normal thing. Yep. Yeah. 01:03:49.079 --> 01:03:52.219 And this, uh, watching my son, um, he ran cross 01:03:52.219 --> 01:03:56.099 country, then he ran track. He did JROTC, but 01:03:56.099 --> 01:03:59.340 there are some phenomenal. young people that 01:03:59.340 --> 01:04:01.739 would be incredible firefighters police officers 01:04:01.739 --> 01:04:03.840 and they i've talked about this several times 01:04:03.840 --> 01:04:05.360 on here that i think it was a wall street journal 01:04:05.360 --> 01:04:08.579 did a piece on how gen z is going into the trades 01:04:08.579 --> 01:04:10.639 because the same way they're learning about how 01:04:10.639 --> 01:04:12.340 shit it is to be a firefighter at the moment 01:04:12.340 --> 01:04:14.940 not the job the working environment i adore i 01:04:14.940 --> 01:04:17.179 adore the profession it's the same with with 01:04:17.179 --> 01:04:19.079 university they're like wait a second you know 01:04:19.079 --> 01:04:21.119 sixty thousand dollars in debt for a piece of 01:04:21.119 --> 01:04:23.409 paper that doesn't guarantee me a job That's 01:04:23.409 --> 01:04:25.710 ridiculous. I'm going to go learn to be a welder 01:04:25.710 --> 01:04:27.269 or I'm going to go to PA school or whatever it 01:04:27.269 --> 01:04:30.329 is. So that's fantastic. They're there. You know, 01:04:30.329 --> 01:04:32.070 a lot of them are in good shape. There are great 01:04:32.070 --> 01:04:34.469 mentorship programs, the one locally here for 01:04:34.469 --> 01:04:37.469 firefighters, where you do take a diverse population 01:04:37.469 --> 01:04:40.050 and challenge them to, to reach the bar, to be 01:04:40.050 --> 01:04:43.909 a firefighter. But yeah, so, so the, the. They 01:04:43.909 --> 01:04:46.530 are out there, but we have to show them as employers, 01:04:46.550 --> 01:04:49.730 as firefighters, that we will take care of you. 01:04:49.769 --> 01:04:51.710 If you're going to leave your family for 24 hours 01:04:51.710 --> 01:04:54.769 at a time and possibly die, that we're at least 01:04:54.769 --> 01:04:56.409 going to give you an environment that sets you 01:04:56.409 --> 01:04:58.489 up for success and hopefully a long retirement. 01:04:59.429 --> 01:05:02.750 Yeah, the Explorers program is such a great program 01:05:02.750 --> 01:05:05.449 for, you know, budding firefighters for high 01:05:05.449 --> 01:05:07.429 schools and stuff. And I think that's such a 01:05:07.429 --> 01:05:10.570 great thing that you can really kind of open 01:05:10.570 --> 01:05:15.639 someone's eyes to. yeah but yeah and and then 01:05:15.639 --> 01:05:17.760 you know I think what we also need to do too 01:05:17.760 --> 01:05:22.579 is we probably need to just um take care of firefighters 01:05:22.579 --> 01:05:27.199 better uh and and you know screen heavily and 01:05:27.199 --> 01:05:33.579 work hard on um you know just making that making 01:05:33.579 --> 01:05:36.340 it normal right like normalizing it right like 01:05:36.340 --> 01:05:39.980 hey after Checks are complete, like we're all 01:05:39.980 --> 01:05:43.179 going to do PT together as a crew because that's 01:05:43.179 --> 01:05:45.800 what our schedule says, right? Like that's what 01:05:45.800 --> 01:05:49.440 our policy says. Those types of things need to 01:05:49.440 --> 01:05:51.679 be kind of normalized. I know lots of organizations 01:05:51.679 --> 01:05:54.059 where that is normalized and I know lots of organizations 01:05:54.059 --> 01:05:59.920 where it's not. Were you surprised when you started 01:05:59.920 --> 01:06:03.429 diving in a little deeper that... a profession 01:06:03.429 --> 01:06:06.650 where lives are at stake, where we carry a lot 01:06:06.650 --> 01:06:09.789 of gear and sometimes have to perform at a very 01:06:09.789 --> 01:06:12.630 high level of exertion, that there are no fitness 01:06:12.630 --> 01:06:18.989 standards in this profession? Yeah. So, you know, 01:06:19.090 --> 01:06:22.329 there's WFI, which has some of these things. 01:06:23.610 --> 01:06:27.869 What I was really surprised was how policy was 01:06:27.869 --> 01:06:31.989 just kind of all over the place. in terms of 01:06:31.989 --> 01:06:36.409 like fitness testing, occupational performance 01:06:36.409 --> 01:06:40.110 testing, medical testing. You know, there's a 01:06:40.110 --> 01:06:42.750 big guideline, right? So like 1580 recently took 01:06:42.750 --> 01:06:46.550 like WFI and 1582 and kind of mashed it all together. 01:06:47.190 --> 01:06:49.510 And, you know, hey, this is your guide. You can 01:06:49.510 --> 01:06:51.809 use this. But organizations need to have these 01:06:51.809 --> 01:06:54.869 policies to themselves, right? You just can't 01:06:54.869 --> 01:06:56.889 point back at the book and then not know what 01:06:56.889 --> 01:07:00.019 the book says. Like you have to have your own 01:07:00.019 --> 01:07:02.860 way of like normalizing it and having culture. 01:07:02.940 --> 01:07:05.739 I think I was more surprised by how like one 01:07:05.739 --> 01:07:08.539 organization in particular that we work with, 01:07:08.639 --> 01:07:11.300 like they've got like pack walk. They've got 01:07:11.300 --> 01:07:13.840 like occupational consumption testing. They've 01:07:13.840 --> 01:07:16.460 got a physical fitness test and they've got a 01:07:16.460 --> 01:07:19.179 medical test. And that's great. Right. And they've 01:07:19.179 --> 01:07:20.940 got a policy that says on shift, you're going 01:07:20.940 --> 01:07:23.559 to do PT for an hour. Right. And then you go 01:07:23.559 --> 01:07:25.699 to another organization. It's like we do medical 01:07:25.699 --> 01:07:29.079 physicals and that's it. It doesn't tell you 01:07:29.079 --> 01:07:33.079 anything else. So once a year, you might crash 01:07:33.079 --> 01:07:37.659 diet and freaking work out a ton just before 01:07:37.659 --> 01:07:39.880 your physical so you know you can pass as opposed 01:07:39.880 --> 01:07:42.960 to just normalizing the standard. And this is 01:07:42.960 --> 01:07:46.940 part of where I think that the fire service could 01:07:46.940 --> 01:07:50.820 maybe look to the military for some guidance 01:07:50.820 --> 01:07:53.480 on some of these things. We had MOS tasks that 01:07:53.480 --> 01:07:55.900 we had to complete on an annual basis, ranges. 01:07:56.909 --> 01:07:58.530 had to shoot your weapon, had to operate those 01:07:58.530 --> 01:08:01.429 things where you had occupational testing. You 01:08:01.429 --> 01:08:03.250 had a physical fitness test that you had to pass 01:08:03.250 --> 01:08:07.349 twice a year. And then you had a medical annual 01:08:07.349 --> 01:08:09.550 physical exam that you had to do, you know, depending 01:08:09.550 --> 01:08:11.429 on the community that you worked in at least 01:08:11.429 --> 01:08:12.929 once a year. And if you wanted to go to a special 01:08:12.929 --> 01:08:18.550 school, like dive or, you know, smoke jumping 01:08:18.550 --> 01:08:20.810 or whatever, right? Like you had to pass an additional 01:08:20.810 --> 01:08:22.590 physical, right? It was a special skills physical. 01:08:23.720 --> 01:08:27.180 And you just don't see that in the fire service. 01:08:28.140 --> 01:08:30.600 You know, in a lot of institutions, it's just 01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:32.619 kind of all over the place. And I'm not saying 01:08:32.619 --> 01:08:34.920 it needs to all be the same. I'm just saying 01:08:34.920 --> 01:08:38.460 it needs to be captured and consistent. Well, 01:08:38.479 --> 01:08:41.000 I think we have an opportunity to all be the 01:08:41.000 --> 01:08:43.899 same. The reason I say that, unlike, for example, 01:08:43.899 --> 01:08:46.380 even law enforcement, when you talk about, you 01:08:46.380 --> 01:08:48.399 know, what would a physical fitness standard 01:08:48.399 --> 01:08:50.100 look like? I'm talking about the occupational 01:08:50.100 --> 01:08:55.619 tasks part of this. I mean, the CPAT, the fire 01:08:55.619 --> 01:08:57.659 sled version of the CPAT, the FPAT, I think they 01:08:57.659 --> 01:09:00.000 call it, you know, when you're moving hoses and 01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:01.960 ladders and dummies that are equivalent of a 01:09:01.960 --> 01:09:04.699 human being and climbing stairs with load, no 01:09:04.699 --> 01:09:06.859 one can say that's not fair. It doesn't matter 01:09:06.859 --> 01:09:09.420 if you're male or female. No, absolutely. Yeah, 01:09:09.439 --> 01:09:15.199 it's the Canadian Physical Assessment Test, I 01:09:15.199 --> 01:09:16.600 think is what it's called. That's what Pflugerville 01:09:16.600 --> 01:09:21.300 uses. And it's a great test, right? Because you're... 01:09:21.529 --> 01:09:24.189 moving a ladder, you're simulating a breach, 01:09:24.529 --> 01:09:27.170 you're dragging a rescue randy, you're dragging 01:09:27.170 --> 01:09:29.409 a charge line, you're moving up and down a ladder. 01:09:29.609 --> 01:09:31.989 So you're hitting all of these things that are 01:09:31.989 --> 01:09:36.590 occupationally uniform, right? And it's one of 01:09:36.590 --> 01:09:38.869 those things where you can just say without a 01:09:38.869 --> 01:09:42.090 doubt that like, hey, if I can do these things 01:09:42.090 --> 01:09:44.510 and this person can do these things with under 01:09:44.510 --> 01:09:47.720 these time constraints. then I can trust them 01:09:47.720 --> 01:09:49.779 to get the job done, right? Like there's no doubt 01:09:49.779 --> 01:09:54.159 as to the capability of that person. Yeah. And 01:09:54.159 --> 01:09:57.600 where I get, you know, not pushed back so much 01:09:57.600 --> 01:10:00.000 because I don't, you know, ask people in the 01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:03.960 first place. Yeah. You know, it's a non -conversational 01:10:03.960 --> 01:10:07.159 topic, in my opinion. But where the water gets 01:10:07.159 --> 01:10:09.779 muddy is when people go, well, we'll do a max 01:10:09.779 --> 01:10:13.039 vert test and a max deadlift, you know, and they 01:10:13.039 --> 01:10:15.100 start inventing these things. Like, no, no, no. 01:10:15.659 --> 01:10:17.760 Because if you just go to the tools that we just 01:10:17.760 --> 01:10:20.460 talked about, that's exactly what you were required 01:10:20.460 --> 01:10:23.779 to do in Fire Academy. So then any of this, oh, 01:10:23.880 --> 01:10:25.939 it's not fair. You're trying to take our jobs 01:10:25.939 --> 01:10:28.880 bullshit. It's like, well, no, because at the 01:10:28.880 --> 01:10:30.960 front door, you knew exactly what was expected 01:10:30.960 --> 01:10:33.460 of you. Yeah. So I don't want to hear it. If 01:10:33.460 --> 01:10:35.619 you don't want to do this anymore, that's absolutely 01:10:35.619 --> 01:10:38.640 fine. Go to fire prevention, go check extinguishers. 01:10:38.819 --> 01:10:41.359 But you have no business being on a fire engine 01:10:41.359 --> 01:10:47.289 anymore. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I do think, you know, 01:10:47.329 --> 01:10:50.470 pre -academy, there are certain tests and I do 01:10:50.470 --> 01:10:56.670 think it's interesting to understand just from 01:10:56.670 --> 01:11:02.130 a, a research and probably like a, just kind 01:11:02.130 --> 01:11:04.829 of put it to bed understanding, like what are 01:11:04.829 --> 01:11:08.409 the physiologic, what are the physiologic characteristics 01:11:08.409 --> 01:11:12.779 of someone who will be physically and mentally 01:11:12.779 --> 01:11:17.079 resilient through academy training and then throughout 01:11:17.079 --> 01:11:20.479 a career in the fire service, right? Like what 01:11:20.479 --> 01:11:22.739 does body fat look like? What does skeletal muscle 01:11:22.739 --> 01:11:26.600 mass look like? What does VO2 like absolute or 01:11:26.600 --> 01:11:31.039 relative look like? You know, maybe throw in 01:11:31.039 --> 01:11:33.119 a grit questionnaire like they did at West Point. 01:11:33.180 --> 01:11:36.840 And what does that look like in terms of, you 01:11:36.840 --> 01:11:42.920 know, how can you assess? And, you know, identify 01:11:42.920 --> 01:11:48.840 who's going to be the injury risk that isn't 01:11:48.840 --> 01:11:51.920 going to make it through academy, right? And 01:11:51.920 --> 01:11:54.000 that's kind of like some stuff I'm working on 01:11:54.000 --> 01:11:56.600 in the background with a couple of labs at Oklahoma 01:11:56.600 --> 01:11:59.119 State. And I've talked to Mark Abel at UK about 01:11:59.119 --> 01:12:02.560 this. It'd be nice to know because these tests 01:12:02.560 --> 01:12:04.819 are relatively quick and simple, right? Like 01:12:04.819 --> 01:12:08.850 an IMTP is you just freaking. yank on a bar for 01:12:08.850 --> 01:12:11.029 as hard as you can for a few seconds to generate 01:12:11.029 --> 01:12:13.550 power. And, you know, depending upon where you 01:12:13.550 --> 01:12:15.770 land on the scale, like where, where, where is 01:12:15.770 --> 01:12:18.510 that number that shows that like, Hey, you're 01:12:18.510 --> 01:12:20.149 going to be an injury risk and you need special 01:12:20.149 --> 01:12:22.350 attention before you start the academy, right? 01:12:22.409 --> 01:12:24.569 Like these are things that you need to work on 01:12:24.569 --> 01:12:28.119 and that could help out with this. this problem 01:12:28.119 --> 01:12:30.000 that we've got right now with recruitment because 01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:32.180 it's not just recruitment because we end up recruiting 01:12:32.180 --> 01:12:34.199 somebody what's the fallout rate for the people 01:12:34.199 --> 01:12:37.380 that have poor physiologic characteristics you 01:12:37.380 --> 01:12:39.119 know but they're still meeting the minimum standard 01:12:39.119 --> 01:12:41.840 on the 1 .5 mile run the other stuff or the c 01:12:41.840 --> 01:12:45.500 -pad even right um so and and that's some stuff 01:12:45.500 --> 01:12:47.439 that we're gathering data on the background with 01:12:47.439 --> 01:12:50.720 some of our larger organizations and some of 01:12:50.720 --> 01:12:53.039 our more historic organizations in central texas 01:12:53.930 --> 01:12:55.609 i think this and we talked about this i think 01:12:55.609 --> 01:12:57.649 when we spoke a few weeks ago but this is the 01:12:57.649 --> 01:13:02.130 other portion of this recruitment demand issue 01:13:02.130 --> 01:13:04.529 that we have at the moment when this is mixed 01:13:04.529 --> 01:13:06.350 and this is happening in florida the department 01:13:06.350 --> 01:13:10.350 sort of gone to the 24 72 literally their hr 01:13:10.350 --> 01:13:12.329 phones are ringing off the hooks now people wanting 01:13:12.329 --> 01:13:14.789 to work for them so now you've got that large 01:13:14.789 --> 01:13:18.149 list and you know arguably now you start selecting 01:13:18.840 --> 01:13:21.199 the self -start. You can select, right? Right. 01:13:21.279 --> 01:13:23.399 Like you have an OML now, right? Like, Hey, you 01:13:23.399 --> 01:13:25.539 did well on this test and you're physically fit. 01:13:25.539 --> 01:13:28.159 And like, you've got great job history and no 01:13:28.159 --> 01:13:30.460 criminal record. Hey, you're the top of our OML. 01:13:30.800 --> 01:13:33.539 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, you know, it's 01:13:33.539 --> 01:13:35.279 essentially recruitment, right? It's like, you 01:13:35.279 --> 01:13:37.720 know, it's like the combine, right? Like you 01:13:37.720 --> 01:13:40.640 just, you, you, you pick your, you pick your 01:13:40.640 --> 01:13:42.720 workhorses and you pick your racehorses and then 01:13:42.720 --> 01:13:45.680 you go. Exactly. Yeah. But if you are scraping 01:13:45.680 --> 01:13:47.140 the bottom of the barrel, then you're taking 01:13:47.140 --> 01:13:50.060 almost everyone. Then now the chances of injuries 01:13:50.060 --> 01:13:52.079 down the road. And then again, no disrespect 01:13:52.079 --> 01:13:55.260 to the people that are prone to injury. But when 01:13:55.260 --> 01:13:59.090 I was testing. I was working an office job when 01:13:59.090 --> 01:14:00.750 I was going to the fire academy. I was working 01:14:00.750 --> 01:14:03.069 out on my lunch hours. I was running in the evenings. 01:14:03.130 --> 01:14:05.689 I was doing all the things because it was very, 01:14:05.770 --> 01:14:09.189 very competitive. So I made sure I was physically 01:14:09.189 --> 01:14:11.670 resilient when I entered the academy. Now you 01:14:11.670 --> 01:14:14.409 take away that demand where they're going into 01:14:14.409 --> 01:14:16.989 high schools and begging them to let them go 01:14:16.989 --> 01:14:19.939 attend the fire academy. As you mentioned, with 01:14:19.939 --> 01:14:22.039 this young group, you're going to have the athletes 01:14:22.039 --> 01:14:23.800 who are going to do incredibly well, but you're 01:14:23.800 --> 01:14:25.180 going to have the kids that have been playing 01:14:25.180 --> 01:14:27.680 Xbox for the last 10 years. And what are the 01:14:27.680 --> 01:14:30.140 chances of them, you know, having strains, sprains, 01:14:30.140 --> 01:14:33.199 etc. So even in this, you know, the higher we 01:14:33.199 --> 01:14:35.560 set the bar for recruitment, you know, the more 01:14:35.560 --> 01:14:37.420 chance there is of that group of people that 01:14:37.420 --> 01:14:40.760 you have being the right kind of physical candidate. 01:14:40.819 --> 01:14:44.149 So the chance of injury is much lower. Yeah. 01:14:44.210 --> 01:14:47.850 And really, it's about like not just like making 01:14:47.850 --> 01:14:49.890 sure they get through the academy fine, but also 01:14:49.890 --> 01:14:52.250 like how they thrive throughout their career. 01:14:52.289 --> 01:14:54.069 Right. And then there's maintenance. Right. Like 01:14:54.069 --> 01:14:56.489 there is there's quite a degree of maintenance 01:14:56.489 --> 01:14:58.250 that needs to occur if you're going to be on 01:14:58.250 --> 01:15:02.569 the job. Right. So you have to, you know, I affectionately 01:15:02.569 --> 01:15:04.909 call it chopping wood and carrying water. Right. 01:15:04.949 --> 01:15:07.289 You just have to chop wood and carry water. It's 01:15:07.289 --> 01:15:09.569 part of the job. You know, it was that way in 01:15:09.569 --> 01:15:12.350 the military. And it's that way in the fire service 01:15:12.350 --> 01:15:14.609 and, you know, any other really public safety 01:15:14.609 --> 01:15:18.069 position. So let's kind of go into, you know, 01:15:18.069 --> 01:15:20.069 all the different elements that you offer at 01:15:20.069 --> 01:15:23.829 Frontline Mobile Health. Yeah, sure. Yeah, so, 01:15:23.829 --> 01:15:26.970 you know, we like to distinguish ourselves because, 01:15:27.050 --> 01:15:30.130 you know, we have kind of listened to our fire 01:15:30.130 --> 01:15:33.069 chiefs. You know, that was probably the first 01:15:33.069 --> 01:15:34.449 thing that we did was like, hey, what do you 01:15:34.449 --> 01:15:36.649 need, right? And they threw us a copy of 1582. 01:15:36.829 --> 01:15:40.069 It was 1582 at the time. And it was funny because 01:15:40.069 --> 01:15:44.930 1582 reads just like a military manual for performing 01:15:44.930 --> 01:15:48.789 annual exams for service members. So it was easy 01:15:48.789 --> 01:15:51.210 to read, easy to pick up. Where we saw where 01:15:51.210 --> 01:15:53.310 it fell kind of short and we knew that there 01:15:53.310 --> 01:15:56.270 was a need was there was this particular iteration, 01:15:56.489 --> 01:15:58.710 you know, kind of lightly touched on behavioral 01:15:58.710 --> 01:16:02.550 health stuff and lightly touched on cancer screening. 01:16:03.159 --> 01:16:05.819 And then the cardiovascular testing was really 01:16:05.819 --> 01:16:08.439 considering the risk, right? Like, so I ran the 01:16:08.439 --> 01:16:10.140 numbers for a paper that we're pushing through 01:16:10.140 --> 01:16:13.180 right now. I looked at the U .S. Fire Administrator's 01:16:13.180 --> 01:16:15.939 website of the line of duty deaths collected 01:16:15.939 --> 01:16:24.960 from 91 to 2021. And when you look at the number 01:16:24.960 --> 01:16:31.720 of people who have succumbed on duty, or consider 01:16:31.720 --> 01:16:35.739 line of duty death from cardiovascular event 01:16:35.739 --> 01:16:41.020 98 over 98 of them were over the age of 30 right 01:16:41.020 --> 01:16:44.619 um and the old standard which i thought was actually 01:16:44.619 --> 01:16:47.979 okay um had you know had cut off points of eight 01:16:47.979 --> 01:16:51.159 ten and twelve mets right you know vo2 wise that's 01:16:51.159 --> 01:16:57.340 like you know 32 35 and 42 mets um in terms of 01:16:57.340 --> 01:17:00.310 your cutoffs you're being cleared for duty And 01:17:00.310 --> 01:17:04.090 the recent iteration, you know, this is kind 01:17:04.090 --> 01:17:05.770 of going into our cardiovascular screening while 01:17:05.770 --> 01:17:08.350 I'm talking about it. You know, now it's, you 01:17:08.350 --> 01:17:10.670 know, it's a lot easier for you to pass as an 01:17:10.670 --> 01:17:12.550 older guy than it is for you to pass as a younger 01:17:12.550 --> 01:17:15.590 guy, which is kind of opposite because age is 01:17:15.590 --> 01:17:18.609 really the biggest risk factor. So we do a lot 01:17:18.609 --> 01:17:20.250 of cardiovascular screening. We do that through 01:17:20.250 --> 01:17:22.970 advanced labs like LP little a, APOB. It's not 01:17:22.970 --> 01:17:25.229 something that you would typically get at your 01:17:25.229 --> 01:17:29.489 primary care in an annual physical. And we do 01:17:29.489 --> 01:17:31.489 that because we know that those identify genetic 01:17:31.489 --> 01:17:34.189 risk and those are the real numbers that allow 01:17:34.189 --> 01:17:36.369 you to understand, you know, what your cardiovascular 01:17:36.369 --> 01:17:39.270 risk is. And then we do something called a cardiopulmonary 01:17:39.270 --> 01:17:42.989 exercise test, which is where we hook you up 01:17:42.989 --> 01:17:45.130 to a mask and we're directly measuring your VO2. 01:17:45.489 --> 01:17:47.409 We're looking at your heart rate. We're looking 01:17:47.409 --> 01:17:50.130 at your ECG tracings as you go through. So we're 01:17:50.130 --> 01:17:53.590 just making sure that, you know, when we redline 01:17:53.590 --> 01:17:56.550 the engine in a controlled environment. that 01:17:56.550 --> 01:17:58.350 we don't see anything that's going to concern 01:17:58.350 --> 01:18:00.689 us, right? Because where you want to redline 01:18:00.689 --> 01:18:02.689 the engine is in a controlled environment and 01:18:02.689 --> 01:18:05.069 observe it. You don't want to redline the engine 01:18:05.069 --> 01:18:08.670 on scene and have a mayday. So that's kind of 01:18:08.670 --> 01:18:11.310 how we run the cardiovascular stuff. Cancer screening, 01:18:11.510 --> 01:18:15.090 you know, we do solid organ ultrasounds from 01:18:15.090 --> 01:18:17.689 the neck all the way down to the scrotum and 01:18:17.689 --> 01:18:20.869 just looking for, you know, things that aren't 01:18:20.869 --> 01:18:25.189 supposed to be there. You know, we offer, you 01:18:25.189 --> 01:18:27.579 know, We're looking at, you know, kidney function 01:18:27.579 --> 01:18:30.479 labs, liver function labs, PSAs, stuff that you 01:18:30.479 --> 01:18:32.479 wouldn't normally order in someone in their 20s 01:18:32.479 --> 01:18:37.079 and 30s. But because of, you know, the occupational 01:18:37.079 --> 01:18:40.739 exposure risk over time just kind of predisposes 01:18:40.739 --> 01:18:44.979 you to having a higher hazard ratio in terms 01:18:44.979 --> 01:18:47.020 of like developing cancer in the profession. 01:18:47.460 --> 01:18:53.079 And then behavioral health, right? Generationally, 01:18:53.079 --> 01:18:54.640 you and I come from the same timeline, right? 01:18:54.739 --> 01:18:56.239 Like, you know, put it in a box and shove it 01:18:56.239 --> 01:18:58.340 in the back, right? Is kind of what we've been 01:18:58.340 --> 01:19:02.939 told for most of our careers. And, you know, 01:19:02.939 --> 01:19:06.199 again, it's like radiation, right? It's not the 01:19:06.199 --> 01:19:08.439 first dose. It's the accumulation of doses that 01:19:08.439 --> 01:19:11.939 slowly erode and chip away. So we focus on a 01:19:11.939 --> 01:19:13.920 lot of screening tool questionnaires that... 01:19:14.359 --> 01:19:16.859 You know, you probably wouldn't get if you go 01:19:16.859 --> 01:19:18.779 to your annual health and wellness physical, 01:19:18.880 --> 01:19:20.420 right? Like they're not going to ask you about 01:19:20.420 --> 01:19:23.079 PTSD. They're not going to ask you about your 01:19:23.079 --> 01:19:25.140 sleep quality unless you have a particular complaint 01:19:25.140 --> 01:19:27.039 about your sleep. But we ask all of them sleep, 01:19:27.140 --> 01:19:35.359 anxiety, depression, PTSD, burnout, compassion, 01:19:35.439 --> 01:19:39.989 fatigue, secondary stress. Some of the things 01:19:39.989 --> 01:19:42.729 that really affect the profession that people 01:19:42.729 --> 01:19:45.329 don't really talk about. Our big one is sleep. 01:19:45.390 --> 01:19:47.350 We talk a lot about sleep hygiene, especially 01:19:47.350 --> 01:19:51.569 off shift. Sleep hygiene off shift is like so 01:19:51.569 --> 01:19:54.529 important. And, you know, we've got, you know, 01:19:54.529 --> 01:19:56.970 I feel like the fire service has some bad habits, 01:19:57.010 --> 01:20:00.670 but that's just part of coping, right? Like when 01:20:00.670 --> 01:20:04.229 you work a 24 -48 or a 48 -96 or a Kelly shift. 01:20:04.980 --> 01:20:07.039 Um, those are the things that you have to do 01:20:07.039 --> 01:20:08.699 to kind of give you that second bump for the 01:20:08.699 --> 01:20:11.020 afternoon. And then the next day, you know, you're 01:20:11.020 --> 01:20:13.720 habituated by it, right? So you just kind of 01:20:13.720 --> 01:20:16.079 continue the, the, that, that product. So we, 01:20:16.140 --> 01:20:18.960 we do a lot of that screening. Um, and then we 01:20:18.960 --> 01:20:20.640 spend quite a bit of time with our patients. 01:20:20.680 --> 01:20:23.060 You know, we don't, you know, it's not like an 01:20:23.060 --> 01:20:24.640 urgent care visit where the doc just kind of 01:20:24.640 --> 01:20:27.640 pokes his head around the corner and gives you 01:20:27.640 --> 01:20:29.500 like five minutes to talk to him and asks you 01:20:29.500 --> 01:20:31.319 if you're still at the pharmacy around the corner 01:20:31.319 --> 01:20:33.590 from your house. he leaves and then you never 01:20:33.590 --> 01:20:35.989 see him again for another year like we we try 01:20:35.989 --> 01:20:37.750 to spend a lot of quality time with the patients 01:20:37.750 --> 01:20:40.590 each each patient's allotted like 45 minutes 01:20:40.590 --> 01:20:43.850 because there's a lot to cover with what we do 01:20:43.850 --> 01:20:46.229 and we want to be able to give you know our patients 01:20:46.229 --> 01:20:49.750 an opportunity to talk about it and then and 01:20:49.750 --> 01:20:53.189 then at the end of it all we summarize all of 01:20:53.189 --> 01:20:56.069 it we de -identify all of it and then we share 01:20:56.069 --> 01:20:58.069 it with the fire chiefs because that's their 01:20:58.069 --> 01:21:00.869 ammunition to go back to the city for continued 01:21:00.869 --> 01:21:05.930 funding or nutrition classes or perhaps some 01:21:05.930 --> 01:21:09.789 resiliency classes or some equipment for their 01:21:09.789 --> 01:21:13.289 stations um and so that's kind of our you know 01:21:13.289 --> 01:21:16.149 kind of our big thing is that we just we we share 01:21:16.149 --> 01:21:18.869 all of our data it's the department's data and 01:21:18.869 --> 01:21:20.189 we want to make sure that they get it they get 01:21:20.189 --> 01:21:22.470 it in time and manner and then they're able to 01:21:22.470 --> 01:21:25.859 have these conversations with you know, districts 01:21:25.859 --> 01:21:28.920 or cities in terms of funding. What about the 01:21:28.920 --> 01:21:31.479 information you were talking about, you know, 01:21:31.500 --> 01:21:36.680 everything from the sleep disruption to the compassion 01:21:36.680 --> 01:21:39.279 fatigue to the depression, PTSD, et cetera? What 01:21:39.279 --> 01:21:44.960 is happening with that data? So can you clarify 01:21:44.960 --> 01:21:48.119 what's happening? Is the organization responding 01:21:48.119 --> 01:21:50.539 to that? Is there a treatment plan based on how 01:21:50.539 --> 01:21:53.189 they report? Oh, yeah. We give it to them so 01:21:53.189 --> 01:21:56.069 that they can use it to, you know, we've got 01:21:56.069 --> 01:21:58.329 one department that shares it with their organizational 01:21:58.329 --> 01:22:01.909 psychologist that offers classes and treatment. 01:22:02.829 --> 01:22:05.789 Some of them use it to bring in resiliency specialists 01:22:05.789 --> 01:22:09.170 or partner with resiliency teams that, you know, 01:22:09.170 --> 01:22:11.109 they have these types of things available to 01:22:11.109 --> 01:22:16.170 them. Some of them, you know, I can't remember 01:22:16.170 --> 01:22:18.250 which department it was, but one department in 01:22:18.250 --> 01:22:20.130 particular, whenever we started seeing all these 01:22:20.130 --> 01:22:22.329 sleep scores. you know, people were complaining 01:22:22.329 --> 01:22:25.109 about beds. And so we told the department and 01:22:25.109 --> 01:22:28.210 so the department bought new beds. And so like, 01:22:28.270 --> 01:22:30.430 it's, it's stuff like that that allows us to 01:22:30.430 --> 01:22:32.350 kind of give feedback to department leadership. 01:22:32.350 --> 01:22:35.210 Cause you know, I don't feel like, you know, 01:22:35.210 --> 01:22:38.949 the people in the ivory tower are there to, you 01:22:38.949 --> 01:22:41.850 know, you know, make shit up so that they can 01:22:41.850 --> 01:22:44.149 make their, their members miserable. They, they 01:22:44.149 --> 01:22:46.449 genuinely want to care for their members in most 01:22:46.449 --> 01:22:50.880 cases. And They just, you know, lack the awareness. 01:22:50.960 --> 01:22:52.920 They're not getting this feedback that allows 01:22:52.920 --> 01:22:54.779 them to have the understanding of what's going 01:22:54.779 --> 01:22:58.779 on at the small unit level, really, right? But 01:22:58.779 --> 01:23:00.739 the more that they have this understanding, the 01:23:00.739 --> 01:23:04.140 better, right? It's been interesting kind of 01:23:04.140 --> 01:23:05.979 listening to all the different departments and 01:23:05.979 --> 01:23:08.039 all the pushback, you know, when it comes to 01:23:08.039 --> 01:23:10.819 changing the work week, for example. One of the 01:23:10.819 --> 01:23:13.960 departments I worked for was a 56 No Kelly 2448. 01:23:14.560 --> 01:23:16.840 They brought in, and I'm sure it was probably 01:23:16.840 --> 01:23:19.340 volunteered by some university, but they did 01:23:19.340 --> 01:23:22.039 a sleep study. And, you know, the outcome was, 01:23:22.140 --> 01:23:24.039 yeah, your firefighters are chronically sleep 01:23:24.039 --> 01:23:27.159 deprived. That was it. The end. All right. Thanks. 01:23:27.199 --> 01:23:31.949 Bye. And what's crazy. Yeah. So, you know. They 01:23:31.949 --> 01:23:33.949 got data. I did nothing with it. And what's crazy 01:23:33.949 --> 01:23:36.229 is if you look at the firefighter cancer conversation, 01:23:36.609 --> 01:23:39.090 they'll talk about the carcinogens in our gear, 01:23:39.170 --> 01:23:41.250 which, you know, as you mentioned, we don't go 01:23:41.250 --> 01:23:43.409 to fires all the time. At least I don't work 01:23:43.409 --> 01:23:45.770 now, but even in my career, I watched it start 01:23:45.770 --> 01:23:49.130 to decline over the years. You know, but there's 01:23:49.130 --> 01:23:51.609 no conversation about sleep deprivation and shift 01:23:51.609 --> 01:23:53.710 work is a known carcinogen. When you look at 01:23:53.710 --> 01:23:55.970 the mental health conversation, you know, they'll 01:23:55.970 --> 01:23:58.890 talk about peer support teams and, oh, it's what 01:23:58.890 --> 01:24:00.989 James saw with that decapitated three -year -old. 01:24:01.449 --> 01:24:03.789 but they won't look at the sleep, you know, the 01:24:03.789 --> 01:24:06.710 work week when that's a direct correlation to 01:24:06.710 --> 01:24:09.189 all things mental ill health to the point where, 01:24:09.189 --> 01:24:11.970 you know, if you're going to SF selection, they're 01:24:11.970 --> 01:24:13.569 going to deliberately sleep deprive you for a 01:24:13.569 --> 01:24:15.729 few days to try and get you to type out. Yeah, 01:24:15.909 --> 01:24:18.229 that's part of the job, right? You go to see 01:24:18.229 --> 01:24:20.390 her, that's part of it, right? Exactly. So this 01:24:20.390 --> 01:24:23.090 is where I get frustrated and it's happening 01:24:23.090 --> 01:24:26.170 now. This revolution has taken off. So fire service, 01:24:26.229 --> 01:24:27.729 brace yourself because if you don't want to change 01:24:27.729 --> 01:24:29.739 your work week. It's going to happen to all the 01:24:29.739 --> 01:24:31.220 departments around you, and you're going to have 01:24:31.220 --> 01:24:32.800 to change anyway if you want to hire anyone. 01:24:33.640 --> 01:24:38.260 Yeah, top three behavioral health issues that 01:24:38.260 --> 01:24:41.579 we see in our practice, sleep, number one, and 01:24:41.579 --> 01:24:43.460 then compassion, fatigue, and burnout. Yeah, 01:24:43.479 --> 01:24:45.539 exactly. So if you're buying new beds, that's 01:24:45.539 --> 01:24:49.859 awesome. again is that really fixing the solution 01:24:49.859 --> 01:24:52.380 or oh i don't know maybe they need more sleep 01:24:52.380 --> 01:24:54.939 you know what i mean so yeah this is what's exciting 01:24:54.939 --> 01:24:57.380 because all these metrics then are going to improve 01:24:57.380 --> 01:25:00.720 and then you add these other layers to it imagine 01:25:00.720 --> 01:25:03.000 if you got a well -rested responder who then 01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:06.640 goes to a counselor yeah we we have found that 01:25:06.640 --> 01:25:09.500 if you have a clinically significant impairment 01:25:09.500 --> 01:25:12.380 in sleep you are greater than 50 more likely 01:25:12.380 --> 01:25:14.479 to have an impairment in some other aspect of 01:25:14.479 --> 01:25:16.720 your behavioral health yeah and then testosterone 01:25:16.720 --> 01:25:19.920 another huge metric how many young guys you come 01:25:19.920 --> 01:25:22.800 across who should be in the 800s and they're 01:25:22.800 --> 01:25:26.199 in the two holy dude it is bonkers man and well 01:25:26.199 --> 01:25:28.619 the amount of testosterone use in the fire service 01:25:28.619 --> 01:25:30.859 is crazy but like you mean you can do i mean 01:25:30.859 --> 01:25:32.720 when is testosterone made right it's made when 01:25:32.720 --> 01:25:35.199 you sleep exactly right so yeah of course of 01:25:35.199 --> 01:25:37.239 course people are going to be low because their 01:25:37.239 --> 01:25:39.119 sleep's terrible and they're going to be supplementing 01:25:39.119 --> 01:25:41.539 and the part part about supplementing and this 01:25:41.539 --> 01:25:43.220 is where i'm going to get on my soapbox is that 01:25:43.220 --> 01:25:47.930 like You know, the TRT in some cases really isn't 01:25:47.930 --> 01:25:52.390 TRT, it's TR optimization. And, you know, it's 01:25:52.390 --> 01:25:56.090 a billion dollar industry and it does come with 01:25:56.090 --> 01:25:58.170 risk, right? So we need to be aware of that, 01:25:58.250 --> 01:26:00.750 especially if you're a firefighter. It does come 01:26:00.750 --> 01:26:02.529 with a lot of risk and you need to be managed 01:26:02.529 --> 01:26:05.789 tightly. You need to be managed so tightly, right? 01:26:06.350 --> 01:26:09.590 And that requires you to take ownership of your 01:26:09.590 --> 01:26:12.670 health. Absolutely. There's a company that I 01:26:12.670 --> 01:26:14.670 love, veteran owned company. They've got a full 01:26:14.670 --> 01:26:18.069 nonprofit arm called Transcend. And they, because 01:26:18.069 --> 01:26:19.949 I, this is an issue I've had, you know, when 01:26:19.949 --> 01:26:22.550 you listen to Kirk Parsley talking about sleep 01:26:22.550 --> 01:26:25.350 10 years ago, maybe see an old term position. 01:26:26.270 --> 01:26:29.750 He was on the show. He told this story. The original 01:26:29.750 --> 01:26:32.250 scale, you and I would go into the doctor and 01:26:32.250 --> 01:26:34.770 it'd be like, well, Mike, your T is 300. You're 01:26:34.770 --> 01:26:38.210 fine because the range is 250 to 950. Well, that 01:26:38.210 --> 01:26:41.529 was an Ivy League school study where the 250 01:26:41.529 --> 01:26:44.789 was an 80 -year -old that lived in his recliner 01:26:44.789 --> 01:26:48.640 and the 950 was the high school athlete. So then 01:26:48.640 --> 01:26:51.520 the pendulum swung all the way the other way 01:26:51.520 --> 01:26:53.840 where now these men's clinics popped up. And 01:26:53.840 --> 01:26:55.939 yet I've got lots of young firefighter friends 01:26:55.939 --> 01:26:59.020 that are on TRT and they were not told about. 01:26:59.390 --> 01:27:01.930 the infertility the hair loss the um you know 01:27:01.930 --> 01:27:04.390 the tits all the other things the back knee yeah 01:27:04.390 --> 01:27:06.850 all the stuff that comes with it right like you 01:27:06.850 --> 01:27:08.789 know there's there's a lot to come i mean never 01:27:08.789 --> 01:27:10.970 mind that like mismanagement can cause you to 01:27:10.970 --> 01:27:13.529 have like you know a higher blood count that 01:27:13.529 --> 01:27:17.210 higher blood count predisposes you to dehydrating 01:27:17.210 --> 01:27:19.949 a lot faster right and what do you do as a profession 01:27:19.949 --> 01:27:21.810 you put on a shitload of gear and you go into 01:27:21.810 --> 01:27:25.869 a hot building excuse me so yeah there's just 01:27:25.869 --> 01:27:28.229 you have to be aware of some of these things 01:27:28.229 --> 01:27:32.670 and and it just it with trepidation you shouldn't 01:27:32.670 --> 01:27:34.770 you should do it right try to fix as much as 01:27:34.770 --> 01:27:36.930 you can before you decide to rely on it exactly 01:27:36.930 --> 01:27:40.689 so yeah one more 24 hour period between shifts 01:27:40.689 --> 01:27:44.109 to sleep is a huge one exercise nutrition but 01:27:44.109 --> 01:27:46.970 then peptides there's a there's a few that stimulate 01:27:46.970 --> 01:27:49.109 your body to make a little bit more of its own 01:27:49.109 --> 01:27:52.840 testosterone i have done that one um the end 01:27:52.840 --> 01:27:56.100 of my career when I just was like 14 years of 01:27:56.100 --> 01:27:58.279 not sleeping, it had to have taken a toll. So 01:27:58.279 --> 01:28:00.399 I did it for, I did peptides for about a year 01:28:00.399 --> 01:28:04.220 and then came off and it wasn't a huge gain by 01:28:04.220 --> 01:28:06.819 any means, but it was like about 10, 12 pounds 01:28:06.819 --> 01:28:09.239 on, and I was, I would arguably underweight when 01:28:09.239 --> 01:28:11.579 I was working and it sustained and it stayed 01:28:11.579 --> 01:28:13.340 on and everything's good and libido is good. 01:28:13.439 --> 01:28:16.220 So that's that other middle piece is if you are 01:28:16.220 --> 01:28:19.079 working shifts and you just can't quite get the 01:28:19.079 --> 01:28:20.960 holistic approach to get everything completely 01:28:20.960 --> 01:28:24.109 in line. With a company like Transcend, this 01:28:24.109 --> 01:28:26.090 isn't a sales pitch. I just truly trust them. 01:28:26.170 --> 01:28:29.130 You can use peptides just to tweak your body 01:28:29.130 --> 01:28:31.810 a little bit. That's very different than exogenous 01:28:31.810 --> 01:28:36.649 testosterone with TRT. Yeah. So great tool as 01:28:36.649 --> 01:28:39.630 well. Well, you mentioned VO2 max. Let's go back 01:28:39.630 --> 01:28:44.350 to aerobic capacity, the decline of the standards 01:28:44.350 --> 01:28:47.909 and how that applies to our readiness to perform 01:28:47.909 --> 01:28:53.610 on a worst case scenario on a call. Yeah. So 01:28:53.610 --> 01:28:56.270 this is my soapbox, right? You're going to hear 01:28:56.270 --> 01:28:58.130 me say this over and over again. One job, one 01:28:58.130 --> 01:29:01.670 standard, right? We know that certain tasks, 01:29:01.869 --> 01:29:04.069 right, thanks to people like Mark Abel, Emily 01:29:04.069 --> 01:29:06.090 Langford, some of the smart folks that have done 01:29:06.090 --> 01:29:08.470 a lot of robot capacity research with firefighters 01:29:08.470 --> 01:29:12.869 specifically, we know that some of these tasks 01:29:12.869 --> 01:29:15.789 require a met level in the range of 9 to 11, 01:29:16.090 --> 01:29:21.140 right? Victim rescue, hose drag. you know, bundle 01:29:21.140 --> 01:29:26.039 carries upstairs, that kind of stuff. And, you 01:29:26.039 --> 01:29:28.239 know, so the 8, 10, and 12 standard was really 01:29:28.239 --> 01:29:29.779 good, right? It was uniform. It didn't matter 01:29:29.779 --> 01:29:31.359 if you're male, female, didn't matter if you're 01:29:31.359 --> 01:29:34.199 like, whatever, right? This was the standard 01:29:34.199 --> 01:29:42.380 period. And then in late 2023, the new standard 01:29:42.380 --> 01:29:45.819 became, hey, we're going to follow the ACSM guidelines, 01:29:46.039 --> 01:29:48.720 which acknowledge that as you get older, your 01:29:48.720 --> 01:29:53.020 vo2 changes um females inherently have a lower 01:29:53.020 --> 01:29:57.720 vo2 than males and so we started watching this 01:29:57.720 --> 01:30:00.060 and paying attention to really alex did my or 01:30:00.060 --> 01:30:03.800 lead ex -phys and and then he shared this with 01:30:03.800 --> 01:30:07.479 me one day and and we looked at the percentage 01:30:07.479 --> 01:30:12.100 of passes on the old standard by decade of age 01:30:12.100 --> 01:30:15.600 compared to the new standard right so the percentage 01:30:15.600 --> 01:30:18.750 of passing in the old standard, which is that 01:30:18.750 --> 01:30:22.510 8, 10, and 12 was, you know, higher in the younger 01:30:22.510 --> 01:30:24.770 groups in the 20s and 30s. And it would, it would 01:30:24.770 --> 01:30:27.789 start to taper off, right? Because as you got 01:30:27.789 --> 01:30:31.090 older, you know, and it's not just a matter of 01:30:31.090 --> 01:30:33.390 like, as you get older, your VO2 decreases. As 01:30:33.390 --> 01:30:34.970 you get older and you've been in the fire service 01:30:34.970 --> 01:30:38.069 for a decade or two, you've probably gotten out 01:30:38.069 --> 01:30:40.710 of shape, right? So some of these bad habits 01:30:40.710 --> 01:30:44.699 have accumulated. And then we looked at We used 01:30:44.699 --> 01:30:47.579 the same amount of data and we looked at the 01:30:47.579 --> 01:30:51.560 we looked at the pass rates by decade of age 01:30:51.560 --> 01:30:55.239 starting in the 20s, according to the new ACSM 01:30:55.239 --> 01:30:59.199 standard. And, you know, it's it was staggering. 01:30:59.380 --> 01:31:03.399 Right. So if you were in your 20s, you know, 01:31:03.460 --> 01:31:10.260 you had a a very significant fail rate and then. 01:31:10.699 --> 01:31:13.539 But the minute you became 30, your pass rate 01:31:13.539 --> 01:31:18.239 went way up. And then same thing for 40s, 50s, 01:31:18.239 --> 01:31:23.020 and 60s in our data. 6 ,000 tests. When we analyzed 01:31:23.020 --> 01:31:27.659 and we compared 6 ,000 tests, when we compared 01:31:27.659 --> 01:31:29.859 30 -year -olds, 40 -year -olds, 50 -year -olds 01:31:29.859 --> 01:31:33.640 to 20 -year -olds, if you were 30, you were 27 01:31:33.640 --> 01:31:37.960 times more likely, not 2 .7 times, 27 times. 01:31:38.619 --> 01:31:41.579 more likely to pass your aerobic capacity standard 01:31:41.579 --> 01:31:44.979 test than you were if you're in your 20s if you're 01:31:44.979 --> 01:31:48.279 in your 40s and beyond it got anywhere between 01:31:48.279 --> 01:31:53.500 to 32 to 37 times more likely right so what is 01:31:53.500 --> 01:31:56.560 the translation what does that mean well it means 01:31:56.560 --> 01:31:59.960 that medically and you know according to the 01:31:59.960 --> 01:32:02.100 wfi standard which is your capacity standard 01:32:02.100 --> 01:32:05.840 if you're older you're going to have an easier 01:32:05.840 --> 01:32:08.710 time to pass your test Because your standard's 01:32:08.710 --> 01:32:13.470 lower. If you just look at going from 20s to 01:32:13.470 --> 01:32:17.210 30s, if it's on a treadmill for aerobic capacity 01:32:17.210 --> 01:32:20.189 testing, it's like 20%. If it's on a cycle ergometer, 01:32:20.369 --> 01:32:24.090 it's like 30%. Just more likely difference. And 01:32:24.090 --> 01:32:27.149 you don't drop that much in that decade of age. 01:32:27.329 --> 01:32:29.770 And then you have to bring into question, what 01:32:29.770 --> 01:32:32.869 do you tell somebody who's 29 who's taking his 01:32:32.869 --> 01:32:35.130 test that next year he's going to be 27 times 01:32:35.130 --> 01:32:39.859 more likely to pass his test? So it just it really 01:32:39.859 --> 01:32:43.460 was it really was just staggering. And, you know, 01:32:43.579 --> 01:32:45.899 it's it's in review right now. The paper is going 01:32:45.899 --> 01:32:49.039 to come out. It's in review right now. But it 01:32:49.039 --> 01:32:52.220 really just kind of goes to show you that I think 01:32:52.220 --> 01:32:54.600 the intention was good. Right. Like the intention 01:32:54.600 --> 01:32:56.399 was that, hey, we have a lot of institutional 01:32:56.399 --> 01:32:58.600 knowledge. We're trying to make sure that, you 01:32:58.600 --> 01:33:00.439 know, we don't lose this institutional knowledge. 01:33:00.520 --> 01:33:03.439 And so we're going to, you know, make sure that 01:33:03.439 --> 01:33:05.720 the guys who were failing before are able to 01:33:05.720 --> 01:33:08.640 continue in the profession. But what you've done, 01:33:08.659 --> 01:33:11.520 right, what you've done is, you know, the greatest 01:33:11.520 --> 01:33:17.699 risk, the greatest risk that is, you know, outside 01:33:17.699 --> 01:33:20.300 of our control for cardiovascular disease is 01:33:20.300 --> 01:33:23.439 age, right? But what you've done is you've made 01:33:23.439 --> 01:33:25.319 it easier for people who have been on the job 01:33:25.319 --> 01:33:28.520 for decades to pass that test compared to someone 01:33:28.520 --> 01:33:31.319 who's in their 20s. And it doesn't make sense, 01:33:31.399 --> 01:33:32.800 right? Because like the people with the greatest 01:33:32.800 --> 01:33:37.359 risk, right? That example I cited earlier, 98 01:33:37.359 --> 01:33:40.079 % of the firefighter fatalities occurred over 01:33:40.079 --> 01:33:44.100 the age of 30, over a 30 -year period. Those 01:33:44.100 --> 01:33:46.239 are the people who have the easiest time to pass 01:33:46.239 --> 01:33:47.699 now. Those are the people who are going to be 01:33:47.699 --> 01:33:49.699 probably working a lot harder than the younger 01:33:49.699 --> 01:33:52.699 person with a lot more physiologic reserve. So 01:33:52.699 --> 01:33:54.920 it was really kind of shocking and eye -opening, 01:33:54.960 --> 01:33:56.939 and we just decided that we're just going to 01:33:56.939 --> 01:33:59.340 release it in a peer -reviewed paper so that 01:33:59.340 --> 01:34:02.869 we can kind of bring it to light. stimulate some 01:34:02.869 --> 01:34:05.149 change right like hey this was a great idea but 01:34:05.149 --> 01:34:07.270 like you need to understand the impact and the 01:34:07.270 --> 01:34:10.609 risk that it's going to have on um on people 01:34:10.609 --> 01:34:13.010 right like you know in our in our conversation 01:34:13.010 --> 01:34:15.149 a few weeks ago you kind of made the comments 01:34:15.149 --> 01:34:18.079 and i've recycled it You know, when you go out 01:34:18.079 --> 01:34:19.800 on a fire ground and you see someone working 01:34:19.800 --> 01:34:23.100 a fire and they're in their bunker gear and their 01:34:23.100 --> 01:34:26.880 SCBA on and their helmets on, like, I can't tell 01:34:26.880 --> 01:34:29.539 if that's a 50 -year -old guy or a 20 -year -old 01:34:29.539 --> 01:34:34.319 gal or a 30 -year -old dude, right? They're a 01:34:34.319 --> 01:34:36.899 firefighter, right? They're all doing the same 01:34:36.899 --> 01:34:38.840 job. They're pulling hose, they're breaching, 01:34:38.979 --> 01:34:41.539 they're, you know, defense, offense, attacks, 01:34:41.819 --> 01:34:46.479 whatever. They're doing the same job. So why 01:34:46.479 --> 01:34:49.460 is there such a big disparity in the standard 01:34:49.460 --> 01:34:54.340 to which you can pass? Yeah, I agree 100%. And 01:34:54.340 --> 01:34:57.460 to give an example, and to preface this, I have 01:34:57.460 --> 01:35:01.239 never been the fittest, strongest, fastest anywhere 01:35:01.239 --> 01:35:05.100 ever. So what I'm about to say is not coming 01:35:05.100 --> 01:35:07.960 from someone that was an Olympic athlete or something, 01:35:08.039 --> 01:35:10.279 just a normal guy that tried to be the best version 01:35:10.279 --> 01:35:14.500 of himself as a firefighter. Building next to 01:35:14.500 --> 01:35:17.579 my last fire station, which was one that very, 01:35:17.720 --> 01:35:22.720 very, very rarely ever run a fire, was a 30 -story 01:35:22.720 --> 01:35:28.699 hotel. Now, for me, on my then 168 pounds, six 01:35:28.699 --> 01:35:31.880 foot tall, skinny ass, had to strap 100 pounds 01:35:31.880 --> 01:35:34.560 of gear. So I had the air bottles, the hose and 01:35:34.560 --> 01:35:36.420 the tools to do what I would need to do on the 01:35:36.420 --> 01:35:38.439 30th floor. And it was a hotel. So there was 01:35:38.439 --> 01:35:40.100 a good chance that you'd be actually making a 01:35:40.100 --> 01:35:43.770 rescue way up there. So then you climb a hundred, 01:35:43.909 --> 01:35:47.810 sorry, excuse me, you climb 30 floors with a 01:35:47.810 --> 01:35:50.869 hundred pounds of gear and then you start working. 01:35:51.829 --> 01:35:56.350 So to contrast that at 48, when I just left the 01:35:56.350 --> 01:35:58.670 fire service and I was running out of money, 01:35:58.729 --> 01:36:01.970 waiting for a sponsorship, I was preparing myself 01:36:01.970 --> 01:36:04.789 to go back in, you know, if I needed to. And 01:36:04.789 --> 01:36:06.989 so I went and did a CPAT as part of the kind 01:36:06.989 --> 01:36:10.090 of, you know, hiring thing that you did called 01:36:10.090 --> 01:36:13.920 fire teams. And at 48 years old, no, sorry, 46 01:36:13.920 --> 01:36:17.260 years old, I got a, I did the CPAT in seven minutes, 01:36:17.340 --> 01:36:19.899 20 seconds. And again, I don't say that to sound 01:36:19.899 --> 01:36:22.659 like, oh, it's amazing, but just simply state 01:36:22.659 --> 01:36:26.680 the fact 46 years old, 720 CPAT. So this is my 01:36:26.680 --> 01:36:30.760 point is no one cares if it's old James with 01:36:30.760 --> 01:36:32.960 his fucked up knees from years of stunts, martial 01:36:32.960 --> 01:36:35.079 arts and firefighting, or if it's an 18 year 01:36:35.079 --> 01:36:37.770 old recruit. All they care about is can that 01:36:37.770 --> 01:36:39.670 person make it to the top with the gear and get 01:36:39.670 --> 01:36:42.729 my child out of that burning hotel room. So to 01:36:42.729 --> 01:36:46.770 lower the standards and get the violin out because 01:36:46.770 --> 01:36:48.890 poor old James is in his fourth decade of his 01:36:48.890 --> 01:36:52.090 life is bullshit. It really is. Now, if you want 01:36:52.090 --> 01:36:54.029 to have that in a corporate setting or like you 01:36:54.029 --> 01:36:56.170 said, in a military where maybe you're in the 01:36:56.170 --> 01:36:58.710 drone control unit where you're actually not 01:36:58.710 --> 01:37:00.970 required to do anything, I understand that. Fire 01:37:00.970 --> 01:37:03.600 prevention. But if you are on a fire engine, 01:37:03.680 --> 01:37:05.859 on a truck, on a rescue, in a battalion chief 01:37:05.859 --> 01:37:08.020 vehicle, and you're responding to an incident 01:37:08.020 --> 01:37:10.859 that could be a shooting or an explosion or a 01:37:10.859 --> 01:37:13.319 hurricane, and you're going to have to be a physically 01:37:13.319 --> 01:37:17.079 active member of that team, then you should be 01:37:17.079 --> 01:37:20.439 held to the same standard, period, point blank. 01:37:20.579 --> 01:37:24.699 That's my opinion. I totally agree, right? Like 01:37:24.699 --> 01:37:31.260 there's, you'll never, yeah. It's something that 01:37:31.260 --> 01:37:34.039 me and some of the folks I do research with, 01:37:34.220 --> 01:37:37.960 you know, Jake and I talk about this a lot. You 01:37:37.960 --> 01:37:40.720 know, nobody cares, right? You know, it's a great 01:37:40.720 --> 01:37:42.819 Cam Haines saying, right? No one cares, work 01:37:42.819 --> 01:37:46.659 harder. You just have to do it. There's a standard. 01:37:46.800 --> 01:37:49.539 Yeah, I have a similar story. I did a consumption 01:37:49.539 --> 01:37:52.180 test with one of our departments in Central Texas, 01:37:52.239 --> 01:37:56.289 and I was able to crank out. a little over four 01:37:56.289 --> 01:37:59.470 rounds on a bottle, on a 45 minute bottle and 01:37:59.470 --> 01:38:02.649 squeak out like 29 minutes of air doing a bunch 01:38:02.649 --> 01:38:05.890 of random tasks. And, you know, compared to the 01:38:05.890 --> 01:38:07.670 recruits that were in that class, like I ran 01:38:07.670 --> 01:38:09.689 circles around them and I'm an untrained person, 01:38:09.829 --> 01:38:12.270 right? Like, and like you, I'm not phenomenal, 01:38:12.369 --> 01:38:16.010 right? Like I'm not like this, you know, decathlete 01:38:16.010 --> 01:38:18.409 or Olympian or anything like that, right? Like 01:38:18.409 --> 01:38:20.590 I just, I take care of myself and I know how 01:38:20.590 --> 01:38:22.750 to push through things and I had a career in 01:38:22.750 --> 01:38:25.560 the military. But it's important, right? Like, 01:38:25.640 --> 01:38:28.699 you know, there is a shield, right, in the fire 01:38:28.699 --> 01:38:30.859 service, and that shield is your fitness level 01:38:30.859 --> 01:38:34.239 that's going to carry you in terms of your health. 01:38:35.220 --> 01:38:36.819 Well, I think the other thing that's frustrating 01:38:36.819 --> 01:38:38.800 about this conversation is the same with the 01:38:38.800 --> 01:38:41.300 work week. Like, there are literally no downsides 01:38:41.300 --> 01:38:42.899 because even as you mentioned, the financial 01:38:42.899 --> 01:38:44.960 element, the money is there. Now you're becoming 01:38:44.960 --> 01:38:47.619 a more fiscally sound organization. The only 01:38:47.619 --> 01:38:49.939 challenge is having the courage to actually do 01:38:49.939 --> 01:38:52.789 it. step up, advocate for it. But it's the same 01:38:52.789 --> 01:38:54.770 with fitness standards, which I think will go 01:38:54.770 --> 01:38:56.689 hand in hand. You create an environment that 01:38:56.689 --> 01:38:59.090 allows these people to thrive. Now is the perfect 01:38:59.090 --> 01:39:01.590 time to then put fitness standards in. But not 01:39:01.590 --> 01:39:04.029 only are you asking people to perform at a higher 01:39:04.029 --> 01:39:07.550 level, not only are you doing the things that 01:39:07.550 --> 01:39:10.069 are needed to minimize the chance of injury, 01:39:10.229 --> 01:39:12.390 for example, but also you're forging longevity 01:39:12.390 --> 01:39:15.369 in retirement. So you're extending their lifespan. 01:39:15.869 --> 01:39:18.710 So there is no downside unless, as one of my 01:39:18.710 --> 01:39:20.289 guests said, and I think it was such a beautiful, 01:39:20.529 --> 01:39:23.890 beautifully put, unless you're scared of getting 01:39:23.890 --> 01:39:26.489 tired. And if you're scared of getting tired, 01:39:26.590 --> 01:39:28.270 then you shouldn't be a firefighter in the first 01:39:28.270 --> 01:39:30.850 place. Because that's all fitness is, is just 01:39:30.850 --> 01:39:33.090 being uncomfortable, being hot, sweaty, tired, 01:39:33.350 --> 01:39:36.789 muscles burning for a short amount of time, three, 01:39:37.050 --> 01:39:39.609 four times a week. That's it. So we've got to 01:39:39.609 --> 01:39:41.609 get back to putting our big boy pants on and 01:39:41.609 --> 01:39:44.840 saying, look, no one's saying. that you need 01:39:44.840 --> 01:39:47.319 to be fit if you want to be a plumber or an accountant 01:39:47.319 --> 01:39:50.020 then you do you but if you want to join this 01:39:50.020 --> 01:39:53.020 profession then you need to be fit you need to 01:39:53.020 --> 01:39:55.560 be strong you need to be mobile and you need 01:39:55.560 --> 01:39:57.920 to understand what working as a team is so i 01:39:57.920 --> 01:40:00.819 think any union or organization that's opposed 01:40:00.819 --> 01:40:04.380 fitness standards is partly responsible for the 01:40:04.380 --> 01:40:07.020 premature deaths of their people and i find that 01:40:07.020 --> 01:40:09.979 unacceptable my thing with our staff is that 01:40:09.979 --> 01:40:13.060 i really encourage them you know, to go through 01:40:13.060 --> 01:40:15.920 flashover training, to go through a consumption 01:40:15.920 --> 01:40:19.659 drill, to do all of these things that give them 01:40:19.659 --> 01:40:22.279 an idea of what it's like to put on bunker gear, 01:40:22.479 --> 01:40:25.779 walk around, right? Like drag a rescue Randy, 01:40:25.960 --> 01:40:27.579 see what that feels like. So you have a better 01:40:27.579 --> 01:40:30.920 appreciation for kind of what we're asking our 01:40:30.920 --> 01:40:32.920 patients to do and what we're clearing them for. 01:40:33.899 --> 01:40:36.300 Because, you know, when you've done it yourself, 01:40:36.520 --> 01:40:40.380 you have a better appreciation of like why, you 01:40:40.380 --> 01:40:44.090 know, strength. and why aerobic capacity is so 01:40:44.090 --> 01:40:46.649 important right the only difference between you 01:40:46.649 --> 01:40:48.949 know me and that group of recruits on that you 01:40:48.949 --> 01:40:51.810 know on that consumption testing field was that 01:40:51.810 --> 01:40:55.630 like i knew my vo2 was good and i know like you 01:40:55.630 --> 01:40:57.750 know just because of years in the military and 01:40:57.750 --> 01:40:59.529 some of the sports that i've participated in 01:40:59.529 --> 01:41:01.789 like i know how to tap into that dark space right 01:41:01.789 --> 01:41:04.270 like i can get uncomfortable i'm okay with getting 01:41:04.270 --> 01:41:08.670 tired well it was i mean when he reframed it 01:41:08.670 --> 01:41:12.560 that way It really made me think because if you've 01:41:12.560 --> 01:41:15.800 got a person on your crew that is afraid of being 01:41:15.800 --> 01:41:19.460 tired. then what does that mean when the shit 01:41:19.460 --> 01:41:21.619 hits the fan in a fire? What does that mean if 01:41:21.619 --> 01:41:23.460 you hear gunfire? I'm not talking about running 01:41:23.460 --> 01:41:26.100 towards a gunman, but you've been told it's a 01:41:26.100 --> 01:41:28.340 warm zone now, PD haven't cornered, and you're 01:41:28.340 --> 01:41:30.520 going to go in and start dragging people out. 01:41:31.060 --> 01:41:34.199 We have to ask ourselves, it's uncomfortable 01:41:34.199 --> 01:41:36.000 going to the gym, it's uncomfortable getting 01:41:36.000 --> 01:41:38.420 tired. Sometimes you do even tweak things or 01:41:38.420 --> 01:41:42.880 whatever, but if that scares you, if that in 01:41:42.880 --> 01:41:46.079 your mind is something that you will shy away 01:41:46.079 --> 01:41:49.779 from, How far have you come from that excited 01:41:49.779 --> 01:41:52.680 young fire recruit that was chomping at the bit 01:41:52.680 --> 01:41:55.300 to do these exercises? So it's not about shaming 01:41:55.300 --> 01:41:58.000 people. It's not about, oh, they need to be thrown 01:41:58.000 --> 01:42:00.380 out today. It's the opposite. These people have 01:42:00.380 --> 01:42:02.880 strayed from where they should be. There's two 01:42:02.880 --> 01:42:04.819 options. Let's help them get and give them the 01:42:04.819 --> 01:42:07.899 tools back to where they need to be, which will 01:42:07.899 --> 01:42:10.359 allow them to perform, allow them to retire healthily. 01:42:10.779 --> 01:42:13.500 Or have you got to the point where in your heart 01:42:13.500 --> 01:42:15.060 of hearts, you don't want to do that anymore? 01:42:15.239 --> 01:42:17.220 Okay, that's great. transition to a different 01:42:17.220 --> 01:42:19.060 department in the fire service it doesn't involve 01:42:19.060 --> 01:42:21.920 you being on the front line man i'm so happy 01:42:21.920 --> 01:42:23.560 you said that right because that's like our big 01:42:23.560 --> 01:42:26.720 thing whenever we talk to you know unions ahead 01:42:26.720 --> 01:42:29.340 of time or organizations ahead of time we we 01:42:29.340 --> 01:42:31.340 talk about like hey we're not here to be the 01:42:31.340 --> 01:42:33.140 boogeyman and take your job right like we're 01:42:33.140 --> 01:42:36.699 here to help you get back on the path to wellness 01:42:36.699 --> 01:42:40.039 right because our goal is that number one you 01:42:40.039 --> 01:42:42.359 can retire on your own terms right you're not 01:42:42.359 --> 01:42:44.640 retiring because you can't do the job anymore 01:42:45.199 --> 01:42:47.140 You're retiring because you've decided like, 01:42:47.199 --> 01:42:49.460 hey, I want to retire. This is me saying I want 01:42:49.460 --> 01:42:52.020 to retire. And then number two, the number two 01:42:52.020 --> 01:42:54.960 and most important thing probably is that after 01:42:54.960 --> 01:42:58.100 you retire, like you can give back time to your 01:42:58.100 --> 01:43:01.239 loved ones and you can drain that retirement 01:43:01.239 --> 01:43:03.119 that you've been putting into for your entire 01:43:03.119 --> 01:43:06.340 career. Right. And so I think where you know 01:43:06.340 --> 01:43:08.380 what you're talking about is, you know, like 01:43:08.380 --> 01:43:11.859 these. This isn't shaming, right? It's the same 01:43:11.859 --> 01:43:14.500 thing with us. We're not coming in here and talking 01:43:14.500 --> 01:43:17.260 to you about how your body fat impacts your VO2 01:43:17.260 --> 01:43:19.640 and how your CPET's risky and you've got all 01:43:19.640 --> 01:43:22.779 these cardiovascular problems. We're trying to 01:43:22.779 --> 01:43:24.859 guide you and get you the right people so that 01:43:24.859 --> 01:43:27.359 you can take ownership of those things. One of 01:43:27.359 --> 01:43:30.359 my favorite sayings is we don't rise to the level 01:43:30.359 --> 01:43:32.279 of our expectations. We follow the level of our 01:43:32.279 --> 01:43:36.810 training. And it's the truth, right? And it applies 01:43:36.810 --> 01:43:39.810 towards your mental health, your physical health, 01:43:39.869 --> 01:43:41.229 and your medical health, right? Like if you're 01:43:41.229 --> 01:43:43.550 not taking care of those pillars, you're not 01:43:43.550 --> 01:43:45.550 taking care of those things because you're not 01:43:45.550 --> 01:43:49.250 training yourself by taking care of yourself, 01:43:49.430 --> 01:43:52.329 eating right, getting good sleep, practicing 01:43:52.329 --> 01:43:54.909 whatever it is you need to practice for your 01:43:54.909 --> 01:43:58.869 spiritual needs, then you're going to have problems, 01:43:59.270 --> 01:44:01.029 right? And they start to stack up. And when you 01:44:01.029 --> 01:44:03.649 have those different shields in place, they allow 01:44:03.649 --> 01:44:06.229 you to kind of become a little bit more resilient. 01:44:06.350 --> 01:44:09.329 And then like you discussed, retire on your own 01:44:09.329 --> 01:44:11.930 terms and then, you know, drain that bucket. 01:44:13.409 --> 01:44:16.029 One more area before we kind of close out and 01:44:16.029 --> 01:44:19.430 let everyone know where they can find you. Where 01:44:19.430 --> 01:44:22.689 I'm very excited as this revolution begins in 01:44:22.689 --> 01:44:24.810 Florida and they're moving to this healthy work 01:44:24.810 --> 01:44:26.970 week and now there's vacant spots are being filled 01:44:26.970 --> 01:44:30.510 by the right kind of people. The next conversation 01:44:30.510 --> 01:44:34.319 is not only fitness standards. is also performance. 01:44:34.720 --> 01:44:37.899 And when I talk to your community, SFSO, et cetera, 01:44:37.979 --> 01:44:40.359 et cetera, when you have strength and conditioning 01:44:40.359 --> 01:44:42.439 coaches and nutritionists and sports psychologists, 01:44:42.880 --> 01:44:45.579 they're forging performance. They're trying to 01:44:45.579 --> 01:44:47.840 get you to operate at a higher level. At the 01:44:47.840 --> 01:44:49.939 moment, when those same professionals come into 01:44:49.939 --> 01:44:52.600 the fire service, the conversation is ultimately, 01:44:52.779 --> 01:44:55.579 let's try and get you to die less. So there's 01:44:55.579 --> 01:44:58.159 this massive void. And then you look at the SF 01:44:58.159 --> 01:45:01.529 program, the Thor 3 program. Thor 3, yeah. getting 01:45:01.529 --> 01:45:04.710 warfighters back on their feet, rehabilitated, 01:45:04.770 --> 01:45:10.189 the prevention side, the performance side, I 01:45:10.189 --> 01:45:13.890 think that's the next phase. Once we get a healthy 01:45:13.890 --> 01:45:17.449 work week and a fitness standard and the competitive 01:45:17.449 --> 01:45:19.170 recruitment where we're getting the right kind 01:45:19.170 --> 01:45:22.850 of person and then mitigate some of the fallback 01:45:22.850 --> 01:45:25.130 from some of our more seasoned professionals. 01:45:26.109 --> 01:45:28.369 The next step, I think, which is really exciting, 01:45:28.409 --> 01:45:31.810 is in how can we use sports science to then advance 01:45:31.810 --> 01:45:34.630 the firefighter to be able to make them operate 01:45:34.630 --> 01:45:37.189 at a higher level? Yeah. And there are so many 01:45:37.189 --> 01:45:39.569 there are so many professionals out there just 01:45:39.569 --> 01:45:41.829 chomping at the bit to get involved with this 01:45:41.829 --> 01:45:44.750 community, because, number one, right, like. 01:45:45.869 --> 01:45:48.869 Like, why wouldn't you want to work with first 01:45:48.869 --> 01:45:51.289 responders, right? Like they're there, you know, 01:45:51.289 --> 01:45:53.229 they're in the profession, you know, they're 01:45:53.229 --> 01:45:55.720 going to be. potentially helping you on your 01:45:55.720 --> 01:46:00.619 worst day. And then number two, you know, there's 01:46:00.619 --> 01:46:03.439 just so much potential there, right? Like how 01:46:03.439 --> 01:46:06.899 much it's an organization that's never had this 01:46:06.899 --> 01:46:09.500 type of a resource before. And there's great 01:46:09.500 --> 01:46:11.779 environments where we can show that like the 01:46:11.779 --> 01:46:15.239 proof has kind of really paid itself out, right? 01:46:15.279 --> 01:46:20.359 Like South Metro in Colorado, you know. I always 01:46:20.359 --> 01:46:22.300 point back to Pflugerville. They've got Vanessa. 01:46:22.779 --> 01:46:24.840 She's a great, you know, strength and conditioning 01:46:24.840 --> 01:46:28.779 specialist for that organization. And, you know, 01:46:28.800 --> 01:46:30.819 and they've grown with them over the years, right? 01:46:30.880 --> 01:46:33.239 Like she's gone from, you know, when they were 01:46:33.239 --> 01:46:35.960 under 100 people to now they're over 200 people. 01:46:36.060 --> 01:46:38.180 And, you know, they're running academies now 01:46:38.180 --> 01:46:40.500 and, you know, injury rates are falling down 01:46:40.500 --> 01:46:43.039 and the people are healthier. And it's just by 01:46:43.039 --> 01:46:44.739 implementing these things. I think what's really 01:46:44.739 --> 01:46:46.760 important though, is that whenever you have these 01:46:46.760 --> 01:46:49.470 policy implementations or these These interventions 01:46:49.470 --> 01:46:52.329 that you're going to introduce is, you know, 01:46:52.329 --> 01:46:54.550 you can't just come at organizations with a hammer 01:46:54.550 --> 01:46:56.529 right away. Right. Like you have to collect data 01:46:56.529 --> 01:46:59.909 when you collect that data. Right. In terms of 01:46:59.909 --> 01:47:02.029 your fitness benchmarks or your health benchmarks, 01:47:02.250 --> 01:47:04.270 then you need to set a new goal. Right. Like, 01:47:04.289 --> 01:47:06.069 OK, this is the average. Let's bump the average 01:47:06.069 --> 01:47:08.550 up to this. And then you just and you just keep 01:47:08.550 --> 01:47:11.380 moving it. until you reach a stopping point, 01:47:11.500 --> 01:47:13.979 right? And then you normalize that. And then 01:47:13.979 --> 01:47:16.199 when you normalize that, that's where you really 01:47:16.199 --> 01:47:19.039 start to see the big benefit, probably the biggest 01:47:19.039 --> 01:47:21.020 in terms of like cost reduction when you look 01:47:21.020 --> 01:47:23.359 back retrospectively from a risk management side. 01:47:24.760 --> 01:47:26.659 Absolutely. Well, I want to throw some quick 01:47:26.659 --> 01:47:28.619 closing questions at you before I let you go. 01:47:28.880 --> 01:47:31.439 Yeah. The first one I love to ask, is there a 01:47:31.439 --> 01:47:33.859 book or are there books that you love to recommend? 01:47:33.939 --> 01:47:36.300 I'm sure Tribe is one of them. It can be related 01:47:36.300 --> 01:47:38.979 to our conversation today or completely unrelated. 01:47:39.479 --> 01:47:43.399 Yeah, so Tribe is definitely one of my favorite 01:47:43.399 --> 01:47:45.619 books. We have it. It's funny. We have it in 01:47:45.619 --> 01:47:50.119 our Dallas clinic. And I forgot that one of our 01:47:50.119 --> 01:47:52.600 design people asked me, like, hey, what's the 01:47:52.600 --> 01:47:55.899 books that you would recommend? And, you know, 01:47:56.079 --> 01:48:00.460 Tribe, The Daily Stoic by Ryan Holiday. I really 01:48:00.460 --> 01:48:02.720 enjoy The Daily Stoic. I've been reading it for 01:48:02.720 --> 01:48:08.630 six, eight. nine years, uh, no eight years. Um, 01:48:08.850 --> 01:48:12.789 so the daily stoic is a great book. Um, and then, 01:48:12.810 --> 01:48:15.909 uh, trying to think, uh, like if you're an organizational 01:48:15.909 --> 01:48:17.789 leader, it's, it's, you know, it's kind of one 01:48:17.789 --> 01:48:21.010 of those basic ones, but good to great. I really, 01:48:21.029 --> 01:48:24.430 I really love that book. Um, I reread it again 01:48:24.430 --> 01:48:26.930 recently as when I took over as a CEO of the 01:48:26.930 --> 01:48:29.949 company, um, good to great was another book that 01:48:29.949 --> 01:48:32.010 I think is really powerful for organizational 01:48:32.010 --> 01:48:36.520 leaders. Fantastic. What about films and documentaries? 01:48:37.699 --> 01:48:45.619 Oh, man. You know, I love trash movies. I am 01:48:45.619 --> 01:48:51.279 a, you know, I'm a science fiction and fantasy 01:48:51.279 --> 01:48:53.479 guy. I kind of grew up in terms of that like 01:48:53.479 --> 01:48:56.300 escapism. So I don't have any good recommendations 01:48:56.300 --> 01:49:00.939 in terms of science or not science, but films 01:49:00.939 --> 01:49:06.539 and documentaries. I did enjoy. um uh the pacific 01:49:06.539 --> 01:49:11.479 and um oh man the big tom hanks documentary on 01:49:11.479 --> 01:49:17.659 world war ii um documentary you said uh it was 01:49:17.659 --> 01:49:20.739 it was a story it was about um the hundred and 01:49:20.739 --> 01:49:23.680 three private ryan or the band of brothers band 01:49:23.680 --> 01:49:25.920 of brothers yeah band of brothers i i've i've 01:49:25.920 --> 01:49:28.500 always enjoyed that um that holds a special place 01:49:28.500 --> 01:49:30.920 in my heart because of the connection to the 01:49:30.920 --> 01:49:35.789 military and you know unit cohesion and like 01:49:35.789 --> 01:49:40.010 the trials of war. So, yeah. I had, I worked 01:49:40.010 --> 01:49:42.069 with Captain Dale Dye when I was a stuntman. 01:49:42.210 --> 01:49:44.829 Did you really? A couple of times. And then Shane, 01:49:44.930 --> 01:49:47.029 who played the medic in Band of Brothers, he 01:49:47.029 --> 01:49:50.050 was on the show too. Yeah. Yeah. No, great, great, 01:49:50.149 --> 01:49:53.149 great series. I really enjoyed that one. Absolutely. 01:49:53.430 --> 01:49:55.229 All right. Well, the next question, is there 01:49:55.229 --> 01:49:57.489 a person you'd recommend to come on this podcast 01:49:57.489 --> 01:50:00.109 as a guest to speak to the first responders, 01:50:00.270 --> 01:50:02.510 military and associated professions of the world? 01:50:03.239 --> 01:50:05.500 We already had Alan on there, so I was going 01:50:05.500 --> 01:50:09.920 to say Alan. Alan Shabarro is a longtime friend. 01:50:12.220 --> 01:50:18.300 Man, Tim Sendelbach, probably. Tim Sendelbach's 01:50:18.300 --> 01:50:21.060 a chief out here. Tim Sendelbach or Nick Perkins, 01:50:21.279 --> 01:50:26.340 one of those two guys. They are both, you know, 01:50:26.340 --> 01:50:29.840 quietly and not so quietly sometimes, really 01:50:29.840 --> 01:50:32.500 pushing for change and taking care of their people. 01:50:33.239 --> 01:50:35.640 And sometimes fighting against the community, 01:50:35.859 --> 01:50:39.439 which is bonkers to me, to extend services like 01:50:39.439 --> 01:50:42.619 that. That is probably the craziest fight that 01:50:42.619 --> 01:50:46.039 I've ever heard a leader have to do is to fight 01:50:46.039 --> 01:50:51.460 a community that they are serving for resources, 01:50:51.800 --> 01:50:56.960 which, yeah, I don't know. But those two those 01:50:56.960 --> 01:51:00.000 two fellows are exceptional leaders with a vision. 01:51:00.649 --> 01:51:04.029 um that that is very firefighter centric and 01:51:04.029 --> 01:51:07.590 firefighter health centric um and they're they're 01:51:07.590 --> 01:51:11.229 just amazing human beings brilliant i appreciate 01:51:11.229 --> 01:51:13.130 that all right well the last question before 01:51:13.130 --> 01:51:14.810 we make sure everyone knows where to find you 01:51:14.810 --> 01:51:17.970 and the company what do you do to decompress 01:51:17.970 --> 01:51:24.090 oh man what do i do to decompress i uh i um i 01:51:24.090 --> 01:51:27.500 do a lot of jujitsu So I like choking people 01:51:27.500 --> 01:51:30.039 and bending limbs the way they're not supposed 01:51:30.039 --> 01:51:33.439 to bend. It's always been a fun hobby for the 01:51:33.439 --> 01:51:35.359 past five and a half years. I'll also climb. 01:51:36.340 --> 01:51:38.340 I haven't done much that lately, though, just 01:51:38.340 --> 01:51:41.619 because work has been really busy. And it takes, 01:51:41.640 --> 01:51:43.060 you know, you have to take a whole day or day 01:51:43.060 --> 01:51:45.380 or two off to go do that. But those are the two 01:51:45.380 --> 01:51:49.300 probably favorite things. Decompress, other than, 01:51:49.319 --> 01:51:51.159 you know, other than obviously being with my 01:51:51.159 --> 01:51:53.939 family, but I've got toddlers at home. Um, so 01:51:53.939 --> 01:51:55.819 that's hard to decompress and you've got toddlers 01:51:55.819 --> 01:51:59.640 running around. Absolutely. I was doing murder 01:51:59.640 --> 01:52:02.100 yoga this morning. That's my new favorite pastime 01:52:02.100 --> 01:52:04.939 too. Oh man. Yeah. That's my favorite. Yeah. 01:52:05.000 --> 01:52:07.060 I've unfortunately, because it's been so busy 01:52:07.060 --> 01:52:09.979 here this week, no practice in this week. Um, 01:52:10.220 --> 01:52:14.340 so I'm hoping to try and get in tomorrow. Brilliant. 01:52:14.810 --> 01:52:16.210 All right. Well, for people listening, where 01:52:16.210 --> 01:52:18.229 can they find Frontline Mobile Health? And if 01:52:18.229 --> 01:52:20.289 you want to just, again, give an overview of 01:52:20.289 --> 01:52:22.329 what you offer, and then we'll talk about where 01:52:22.329 --> 01:52:24.390 we can find you specifically as well. Yeah. So 01:52:24.390 --> 01:52:26.989 Frontline Mobile Health is a specialty occupational 01:52:26.989 --> 01:52:29.189 health clinic. And I say specialty because we 01:52:29.189 --> 01:52:31.869 just deal with public safety. So fire and police, 01:52:31.989 --> 01:52:35.189 large majority of our customers are fire. We're 01:52:35.189 --> 01:52:37.449 at frontlinemobilehealth .com. That's all one 01:52:37.449 --> 01:52:41.050 word. We offer annual, new hire, fit for duty. 01:52:42.619 --> 01:52:47.000 and medical and psych screening. And yeah, we've 01:52:47.000 --> 01:52:49.819 really grown by word of mouth, you know, just 01:52:49.819 --> 01:52:52.439 fire chief to fire chief. We've started doing 01:52:52.439 --> 01:52:54.979 shows here recently. We'll be at FRI. So if you're 01:52:54.979 --> 01:52:57.579 going to be out at FRI, we're going to have a 01:52:57.579 --> 01:53:02.260 very large booth out. And yeah, we're in 12 states, 01:53:02.279 --> 01:53:06.039 big presence in Texas, Colorado, and Georgia, 01:53:06.100 --> 01:53:08.819 but we're expanding into other locations as well. 01:53:10.120 --> 01:53:11.960 Even though we just closed out, I got one more 01:53:11.960 --> 01:53:13.979 question because you said psych screening. As 01:53:13.979 --> 01:53:16.720 I progressed through this nine years and learned 01:53:16.720 --> 01:53:19.600 from all these experts and I reflect back to 01:53:19.600 --> 01:53:22.000 the psych tests I had to do four times to four 01:53:22.000 --> 01:53:25.220 different departments, I discovered that the 01:53:25.220 --> 01:53:27.340 one I did, which was the multiple, multiple, 01:53:27.340 --> 01:53:29.779 multiple choice, you know, the hundreds and hundreds 01:53:29.779 --> 01:53:31.920 of questions. 350 questions, the MPSS probably. 01:53:32.140 --> 01:53:36.439 Yeah, MSPSS. It was the MMPI. So the psychology, 01:53:36.579 --> 01:53:39.479 psychiatry world basically educated me that that 01:53:39.479 --> 01:53:41.760 was never meant to be used as a standalone test 01:53:41.760 --> 01:53:43.779 to determine if someone was going to be a first 01:53:43.779 --> 01:53:46.159 responder or not. So which screening do you use 01:53:46.159 --> 01:53:49.159 and why? So I'd have to defer to Rebecca because 01:53:49.159 --> 01:53:51.180 she kind of runs late on that. She's our lead 01:53:51.180 --> 01:53:53.699 psychologist. But it's only that's only one aspect 01:53:53.699 --> 01:53:56.600 of four tests, four different tests that we do 01:53:56.600 --> 01:53:59.340 to include receiving background packets from 01:53:59.340 --> 01:54:03.079 the hiring committee and a relatively lengthy 01:54:03.079 --> 01:54:05.720 interview once we get the results back in. So 01:54:05.720 --> 01:54:07.819 it's not it's not a one dimensional test. The 01:54:07.819 --> 01:54:10.380 MMPI should not be used as a single source screening. 01:54:10.640 --> 01:54:13.420 And then sometimes, you know. over -reporting 01:54:13.420 --> 01:54:16.460 and under -reporting occurs, as you know, on 01:54:16.460 --> 01:54:19.539 some of these testing, so that can kind of skew 01:54:19.539 --> 01:54:22.020 results. And that's why you need, it really should 01:54:22.020 --> 01:54:24.600 be evaluated by a forensic psychologist, which 01:54:24.600 --> 01:54:26.779 is who we staff on our teams. We use forensic 01:54:26.779 --> 01:54:29.720 psychologists. We don't just, not that a psychologist 01:54:29.720 --> 01:54:31.640 isn't a bad person, but forensic psychologists 01:54:31.640 --> 01:54:34.539 are specifically trained to do this type of work. 01:54:35.020 --> 01:54:37.760 And Rebecca has, you know, has a pretty extensive 01:54:37.760 --> 01:54:41.640 background in that. Brilliant. well one last 01:54:41.640 --> 01:54:43.560 thing for you specifically if you want to reach 01:54:43.560 --> 01:54:45.460 out to you where are the best places online or 01:54:45.460 --> 01:54:48.100 social media yeah so i'm on linkedin you can 01:54:48.100 --> 01:54:50.720 just look up uh michael connor on linkedin and 01:54:50.720 --> 01:54:53.659 you'll see that i'm i'm there on frontline um 01:54:53.659 --> 01:54:57.899 i keep my my i keep my uh my facebook and my 01:54:57.899 --> 01:55:00.579 um instagram pretty private because that's typically 01:55:00.579 --> 01:55:03.579 my family but you know you can you can always 01:55:03.579 --> 01:55:06.279 find me on linkedin and i'm always posting stuff 01:55:06.279 --> 01:55:08.340 about some of the research that we're doing some 01:55:08.340 --> 01:55:10.239 of the shows that we're at and that kind of stuff 01:55:10.239 --> 01:55:13.699 beautiful well i want to say thank you again 01:55:13.699 --> 01:55:17.239 to trevor but also to you i mean again coming 01:55:17.239 --> 01:55:19.479 from the background that you have and you know 01:55:19.479 --> 01:55:21.960 the medical element of the military and then 01:55:23.260 --> 01:55:24.880 Transitioning out into help in our community, 01:55:24.979 --> 01:55:27.079 I think it's phenomenal. And it sounds like all 01:55:27.079 --> 01:55:28.840 these elements that you've talked about from 01:55:28.840 --> 01:55:30.680 the types of blood screening that you do to the 01:55:30.680 --> 01:55:33.579 psych evaluations, it's one of those organizations 01:55:33.579 --> 01:55:35.479 that people definitely need to look into. So 01:55:35.479 --> 01:55:37.479 I want to thank you so much for being so generous 01:55:37.479 --> 01:55:39.399 with your time and coming on the Behind the Shield 01:55:39.399 --> 01:55:42.159 podcast today. Hey, it was a pleasure being here. 01:55:42.199 --> 01:55:43.439 Thank you so much for having me, James.