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with Joel Totoro and Wes Barnett. Welcome to
the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my
name is James Gearing, and this week it is my
absolute honor to welcome on the show former
law enforcement officer and member of the 343
Fund team, Aaron Souza. Now, in my opinion, some
of the most powerful voices when it comes to
the use of psychedelics with mental health are
our men and women in law enforcement. When the
same professionals that were told to enforce
the war on drugs found healing in these prohibited
plant medicines themselves. So we discuss a host
of topics from his journey into law enforcement,
working in SWAT, his own powerful mental health
story. the incredible post -traumatic growth
he experienced, working with the 343 Fund, and
so much more. Now, before we get to this incredible
conversation, as I say every week, please just
take a moment, go to whichever app you listen
to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback,
and leave a rating. Every single five -star rating
truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making
it easier for others to find. And this is a free
library of well over 1 ,100 episodes now. So
all I ask in return is that you help share these
incredible men and women's stories so I can get
them to every single person on planet Earth who
needs to hear them. So with that being said,
I introduce to you... Aaron Souza. Enjoy. Well,
Aaron, I want to start by saying two things.
Firstly, thank you to Angela, our mutual friend,
for making this connection. And secondly, I want
to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield podcast
today. Well, I thank you, James, for creating
the time for having me on here. And as you know,
Angela has definitely created a pathway for a
lot of individuals right now to do a lot of great
things. And that's what we're doing here at 343.
Recently, I was... handed the keys to be the
executive director of 343 Funds. So I am stepping
into the fire here. And she pointed out that
she had a great podcast with you and you do a
lot of great things. I did a little bit of research
on you and then I see we're kind of on the same
page here. So I love what you're doing and appreciate
you a lot. Absolutely. Well, likewise. So very
first question then, where on planet Earth are
we finding you today? So I'm in West Palm Beach,
Florida right now. I'll give you the quick background
of where life has tracked me through. I was born
in New York, lived in Jersey, went to college,
high school, all that fun stuff out there. And
then was a police officer in California. Yes,
I know it's a total different change of pace
from the East Coast to the West Coast. And you
get into that story how I got out there. But
it's like when God has a path for you, he has
a path for you. You can't fight it. And I was
out there and then I retired in 2021 and moved
to West Palm Beach, Florida. And I'm retired
and living in sunny Florida. A little humid,
but we're working with it. Yeah. I'm about four
hours north of you. And it is, as they say, hot
as balls in the state at the moment. Yeah. Very
much so. Very much so. You shower, you come outside,
you have to shower again. Exactly. Exactly. Well,
let's start back in New York then. So whereabouts
in New York? Did you grow up and then talk to
me about kind of the childhood experience? All
right. So I was born in Valley Stream, New York,
which is in Long Island. I actually moved to
St. Thomas for a short period of time, the Virgin
Islands. My mom is from there. I lived out there
with my grandmother. Great time. I have great
childhood memories with that. And then came back,
moved to Staten Island, New York, with my mom
and my stepfather. So when I say my father, my
stepfather is my father. He raised me from when
I was... Little. I have four brothers. So we
lived in Staten Island for a little bit. Then
moved from Staten Island when I was in middle
school, so sixth grade, to Old Bridge, New Jersey.
And that's where I went to middle school, high
school, college. I was in Jersey also. Did sports.
Did track and field, baseball, soccer, football,
wrestling, all of the above when it came to that.
And then I went to Monmouth University and played
college football there. um for four years and
from there i uh actually came down to florida
i skipped that part i actually came down to florida
after college and played some arena ball um a
couple years of arena football out here moved
back to jersey was working for a little bit i
had my first child when i was uh 23 so i was
young and you know make some decisions when we're
young sometimes um and then i was chasing my
dream to become a police officer. So it was one
of two things I was going to do, go to the military
or be a police officer. I always had this feeling
and this knowing of my purpose in life was I
was created to be a protector. And I'm not saying
that in any way to sound more masculine. I just
knew I had certain skill sets and certain things
from a child that I felt it. thing that assisted
me with those decisions where my uncle was NYPD,
or actually retired NYPD, and he used to come
over all the time in his uniform. You know, NYPD
and LAPD, those are like the two highest of the
high when it comes to police officers. You want
to be part of those groups. And I used to remember
just looking at him in his uniform and be like,
all right, that's it. That's what I want to be.
I know it. So I applied. I applied to NYPD, Port
Authority, Jersey State Police. And like I said,
God always has a plan. and a lot of times you
don't know what it is but it's always working
and there was a job freeze or hiring freeze at
the time so i did all this out applying nothing
so at the time i was working at a gym and one
of my buddies told me take a look at um california
the west coast and see how much they get paid
all right took a look over in the bay area i
was looking originally at san jose pd and immediately
i saw six figures and i said yep that's it you
gotta get over there now there's A part to it
that I didn't add in, nor did I think about.
We're going to get to that in a second. So I
was like, all right, let me start the process.
Went over there, started the process, and didn't
realize the cost of living out there. Kind of
evens itself out a little bit, if not takes away
from everything when you get out there. But I
went out to San Jose. I applied with San Jose
PD. And while I was out there, I met a gentleman
from Hayward Police Department from New York.
And you know us Jersey guys and New Yorkers always
have to hit it off somehow. and he asked me to
go do a ride -along. I was like, all right, you
know, I'm doing San Jose thing, but I'll do the
ride -along just to kind of take a look at what's
going on out there. Did the ride -along from
the first call we were running hot. We were going
to code three calls, and I was like, this is
my speed of life. This is definitely my speed
of life. This is what it's all about here. So
I ended up telling him, you know, I'm already
committed to San Jose, but if anything goes south
or for whatever reason doesn't go through, which
in my head I was like, there's nothing that can
go wrong at this point. I'll reach out to you.
Like I said, God always has a plan. And he's
always putting you in the right place at the
right time. So some things happened with San
Jose that was unforeseen in my eyes. And I made
a phone call to a gentleman over at Hayward.
And next thing I know, I'm in the academy with
Hayward Police Department. So I ended up working
in Hayward. Went to Alameda County Police Academy.
Great group of people out there. They do some
great training. I was in the academy. with some
great people. And then when I graduated the Academy,
I mean, I came out hot. I think I was involved
in my first shooting. It was like three or four
months out of the Academy. What they call, excuse
my French when I say this, a quote unquote shit
magnet. It was legitimately what I was. If it
was going to happen, it was going to happen around
me and I was probably involved at some point.
And yeah, I was just, I was involved and exposed
to a whole lot. Everything that you hear about
in the police world. I was involved in. And this
is where it starts leading into where we get
into the, I began talking what I, why I associated
with that is just because you say you want to
get involved in a lot of this stuff, but you
don't understand what comes along with this.
You want to be the hero, you know, when we looked
at as the guy that you could call on, if you
need a life save that you want to do the good
things for people in this world, but you don't
understand the stresses that come along with
it. the life lessons that come along with it.
And I mean, just the chaos that you see on a
daily basis in this first responder world. It
is insane. I didn't come from a very naive mindset
when I grew up, but when you get that bubble
gets popped and you see what's going on in this
world, it's just like, Oh, like, what is this?
And then how do you deal with it? We don't get
taught how to deal with this stuff. We get taught
to compartmentalize it, lock it away or. You
go drink, find a new habit, go do some drugs,
whatever it may be. Womanize it. I mean, pick
your poison, what it's going to be. And that's
kind of how, especially like old school guys
that have done this job and even around my time
and even to this time, we're tough guys. We're
type A personalities. We're alphas. We don't
talk about feelings. You don't cry. We don't
do these type of things. And I bought into it,
100 % bought into it. Coming from an athletic
background, don't show emotion, don't show feeling.
You don't have time for that. Turn the switch
on, turn it off. That's it. And I didn't realize
what it was doing to me at all. So I use this
analogy. I forgot who I got it from. But a life
like that, and it's not even just first responders,
but we're talking the first responder world.
It's like every time you deal with a trauma,
and a trauma could be a fight, foot pursuit,
whatever it may be. You see a death. You take
a pebble and you put it in a backpack. You know,
that's a trauma. We keep doing that. You know,
a little pebble. Nothing. I'm strong enough.
I can hold that pebble. You know? You get to
10 pebbles. I'm still holding strong. You get
to 100 pebbles. Okay, I'm feeling a little bit
not too bad. But now this little stone that we
were throwing in that backpack, compartmentalizing,
we're at 1 ,000 of these. It's getting heavy
now. Now I'm starting to feel. This little stone
is not a little stone anymore. It's this big
weight on my back now. And that's what kind of
was going on when it came to what I was doing.
I was on a SWAT team. I did work with the gang
unit. I was exposed to everything out there.
I got into my third shooting and simultaneously,
wild week, third shooting, my partner committed
suicide. And then another situation happened
that I'm not going to talk about on here, but
all within that time period. And then something
inside of me was like, that's it. Like, you got
to stop here. You know, my body was talking to
me before that. And as normal, we ignore these
things. You know, we have certain pains and certain
things. We're like, no. I'm good. We don't need
to listen to it. I got it. Let's just think about
something else. Let's rub some dirt on it and
keep it moving. And something hit me hard that
day. I was like, you're done. Like, you can't
do this anymore. I was fighting it. My ego was
fighting that. Whatever it was, I was trying
to find ways around it. So I went, took the procedures
to go talk to certain people with what I needed
to do, and COVID hit. So now we're locked away.
So I'm not working. I feel like I have no purpose
in what I'm doing because I was literally sitting
in an apartment by myself and my two dogs. That's
what I was doing that whole time. And then it
got to the point where there was such chaos going
on out there that I felt like I needed to be
involved. I wasn't doing what I was made to do.
So now I'm having this inner battle with myself,
by myself, in this dark corner. And I still don't
know I'm going through depression. I'm going
through things that I... I have no clue what's
happening, but I'm going through it, and I'm
doing it in a dark room by myself. I would literally
sit with my vest because I was still on. I had
my tack vest, my radio, and I had my rifle, and
I would listen to the radio and chase the radio
and hope that something would happen where I
was at just so I could get involved in things.
That's what it got to. So I did a year of that.
I was out of work for a year doing nothing, just
sitting there just. sit in my own sorrows and
talk in my own demons. And still not knowing
what's happening. So we get fast forward. Retirement
happens to 2021. I moved to Florida. I get in
a relationship. Ended up having two kids, getting
engaged. Didn't realize I was not in a mindset
for any of that. I thought that was the answer
to everything. That would make things feel better.
Mulled over. I wasn't a big drinker. I didn't
do drugs or anything like that. So my thing was...
I guess I was searching for a feeling is what
I needed. I didn't know what it was, but I knew
I had to feel something. So I think that's what
kind of drove me that way. And then things didn't
work out. Broke up the engagement, had my two
kids, everything like that. So all that plus
everything I was still going through that was
still just building up. And I didn't realize
how much this thing has overflowed at this point.
So some things started happening. I started getting.
Like weird, I never was sick in my life with
anything. Always been healthy, 100%, nothing.
I had weird things going on with my body out
of nowhere. Some blood sugar issues, some sleep,
like I could sleep on a, you could put me under
a table. I used to be able to sleep and I'd be
knocked out for 10 hours on the table on a hard
wooden floor. I couldn't sleep for anything.
I was not dreaming, but I just could not go to,
my mind was just constantly going. And then fast
forward. A couple of things. I got involved in
the firearms industry, which plays into what's
happening here. I met a couple of people. Again,
God always has a plan. There was a couple of
individuals I met that I had no business talking
to, nor would I ever think that I'd meet these
people, but they play into what happened here.
One day, I'm sitting in the kitchen with my kids,
two youngest kids, and I was washing dishes.
I love my kids to death. I'm an affectionate
type of individual with my kids. I'm hugging,
kissing, all that. And my smallest one, he was
like a year and a half. And he's doing what a
kid does. He's like hanging on my leg, playing
on my leg and things like that. And out of nowhere,
I got this shock up my body. It went from right
where he's touching my leg. And I just had this
hypersensitive, overstimulated feeling. And I
literally felt it crawl up my body and hit my
head. And it was like a bomb went off in my head.
And I didn't say it. but I fought it. And that's
where I was like, there's something wrong here.
I was like, get the hell off of me. I thought
in my head, I was like, why did I just do that?
And I couldn't figure it out for the life of
me. But again, you know, type A personality alpha,
it happened. Let's brush it off. You know, maybe
we're just having a lack of sleep. I'm giving
myself every excuse under the sun of what's going
on here. So, but that was like the big check
marker in my head at that point. I was like,
something's up. Can't figure it out, but something's
going on here. So the final stint was I'm driving
with my kids. Had all my kids in the car. Had
my oldest daughter sitting in the front seat.
Two boys are in the back seat. I'm driving out
here in Florida, and there was a spider in the
car by my daughter. So she's doing the little
girl thing, like going crazy. There's a spider
in here. And I'm like, calm down. Give her water
bottles. Like, when I stop this light, open up
the door and just hit the spider out of the car,
and we'll be done with this. So she does that.
And when she hits the spider, the bottle kind
of falls out of her hand. And she goes to get
out in the middle of the street. I was like,
no, no, no. I was like, leave that where it is.
You're not getting out in the middle of the street.
Like, just be smart about this. Close the door,
whatever. So I close the door. And I'm fairly
situationally aware still. I'm still extremely
hypersensitive to everything going on around
me. So out of nowhere, I could see my peripheral.
Somebody's coming up to my car. And I see him
come up fast in the middle of the street. So
I was like, that's not good, whatever it is.
So I kind of turn around, and there's a guy just
charging towards the car. He bends down. He picks
up the bottle and just slams it against my daughter's
window. And, James, I know a lot of people are
protective over their kids, and everybody would
probably get angry at this point in time. But
I went from A, which is, okay, something happened,
B, C, D, figure out what it was, what are we
going to deal with. I went from A to Z. I skipped
B, C, D, all of the above. And Z was, this guy
has to stop doing it. He'll never do that again.
I'll just put it in the nicest terms ever. And
I went and I did something after that. Didn't
harm the guy, but put my kids in a situation
that I would never, ever in my life do. I have
talked to people about doing this stuff and I
did it. And when I tell you, and even to this
day, it gets me emotional because I did this.
When I did it, I kind of blacked out and forgot
my kids were there. And I'm dealing with this
guy. And then I remember coming through this
whole thing. And seeing my kids looking at me
and the look they had on their face for whatever
I was saying to this guy or how I was reacting,
that was enough for me. They had a look of disbelief
on their face that I was like, I never wanted
my kids to have to see that or hear that or know
that there's a side to me like that. And I did
that. And I didn't have control at that point
in time. That's when I realized something is
bad going on up there. Whatever it is, I have
no control over right now. So. To rewind a little
bit, I was fortunate to meet some individuals,
some tier one guys. And we just started talking
one day like we were buddies. And they told me
about Ibogaine and what they did down in Tijuana.
And I've never done a drug in my life. So the
first conversation we had, I was like, you guys
are crazy. If you think I'm going to go do psychedelics,
you're nuts. If you think that's going to happen,
appreciate everything you guys are telling me.
But yeah, this conversation, there's no need
to have it, man. I'm good. So that happened like
earlier in the year. Then we met up again and
he kept the door open for me. And he was like,
yeah, anytime you want to talk about it, just
reach out to me. Kept the door open for me. And
then we talked about it again. And we got a little
bit deeper into conversation. It was two individuals
that we talked about. got deeper into conversation.
And this was after the first incident, I kind
of told them what was going on. We had a deeper
conversation, open the door again. And I think
it was more my ego and fear of the unknown, honestly,
of like, I'm thinking of all the things you hear
of bad trips and I'm going to like die going
through this whole process. Like they're not
gonna be able to control me. I'm just going to
go completely off the edge on this. And I was
like, you know what? Cool. I'll take the number.
I'll look, do a little research on it. The day
that this happened, that last incident, I literally,
as soon as I got home, sent a text message and
made a phone call. And this is where I say God
always has a plan and he has it lined up for
you. And he's got it. This thing is written out
way before you could even think about it happening.
So I made the phone call. And then I started
making excuses for myself. I was like, you know
what? I made that phone call. I shouldn't have
done that. Now I've got to commit to this. I've
got to find a way out of this. So I was like,
you know what? It's an expensive treatment. I
can't afford this. A certain individual had a
foundation. He's like, we got you. They cut a
check for me right there. I was like, damn it.
I'm in a corner now. Was that through Vets that
you went through? That was through the Danny
Dietz Foundation. Okay. So the individual was
DJ Shipley, Cole Falkler of GBRS Group, and Patsy.
Those are the individuals that helped me out.
Gotcha. And again, in my life, I never thought
I'd be sitting down having a conversation with,
these people at all and even to this day i speak
with them you know um so i was like damn as i've
committed to this and there's no way out of this
but i got to find a way out so i'm a problem
solver i can figure this out i was like you know
what it's probably a year out before i can even
get into this this happened the first week of
september i believe it was so dj's like call
um trevor den and ambio and get scheduled So
I'm hearing it's going to be a year, year and
a half probably. I called Trevor. And I'd PSU
not. He's like, we have an opening in three weeks.
I was like, damn it. I was like, what is going
on right now? God has a plan. So I was like,
you know what? Literally, it's like there is
no coincidences in this world. There's none.
So I was like, all right, I got my kids. There's
no way I could give a week up to go do this.
I was like, I've got my kids. Their mom had a
vacation plan with them. You know what week that
was? The same week. Months. Same week. I was
like, fuck. I'm not helping out here. Then I
was like, you know what? I got to fly out to
San Diego. I was like, yeah, I can't make it
out there. I got to find a way to cancel it still.
I had enough freaking flyer miles to go there
and back several times. I was like, yeah, there's
nothing I can do about this at this point. So
I even waited until like the last two days to
book my flight. Still trying to find a way to
back out of this. And there was nothing. Nothing,
I could find a way out of it. So that was the
first part of the coincidence when we got out
there. So we played out, went out to San Diego.
And I'm like, all right, this is just a shady
scenario. Driving across the border to Tijuana.
I don't have my gun on me. I've got nothing.
I'm like, this is, they make movies about this
stuff. And that wasn't the case. I got there
and there was this feeling of calmness. Like
just utter safety and calmness. I felt like nothing
is going to happen to you. Like, you're good.
You're meant to be here, and you need to do this.
You're going to be good. So I went down, got
in a van with several strangers. I was just like,
this is getting better. Liam Neeson warned you
against this. Oh, yeah. I told you, they make
movies about this type of stuff. So I'm sitting
in a van, and then obviously we're all a bunch
of type A personality guys, like soft guys and
a bunch of different guys in that car. And then
I know we're all sizing each other up. We're
figuring out, all right, if something goes wrong,
who do we have to take out first? Like who's
going to survive what? And it was, it was a weird,
it was just a weird comfort around each other.
I don't know. Do you want to go into the whole
process now? We'll go back and I've got those
things to ask, but let's, let's keep it flowing
and then we can go back after. Okay. So we get
into Mexico, pulled to this house and I'm just
like, Jesus. There's no way I could be involved
in coming out here. All the things I've talked
about in life. But again, it was just weird sense
of calmness when I got out there. Get into the
house. And when I tell you, they take care of
you in every manner. So you do not have to worry
about a thing except for your treatment and getting
better. I'm talking about, I put my bag down
and I turned around and my bag was gone. Because
obviously they have some things they have to
do with making sure you don't bring any drugs,
anything, alcohol, anything like that. um in
there but then folding up your clothes putting
them away like it got to a point where i started
to get a little nervous i'm like why are you
guys in my bag where are my clothes you know
doing your laundry best food you will ever get
down there best food i'm sure everybody tells
you the same thing the chefs the staff you're
monitored by doctors 24 7 you've got some of
the best healthcare professionals there taking
care of you like there is literally no worry
you have but to focus on yourself down there
um a therapist everybody i mean i applaud everybody
of that aspect of things so we do that we kind
of do a powwow and i'll kind of fast forward
through some of this because i mean i could talk
about this for hours um do your initial powwow
first day is your um sauna takama which was an
amazing thing because i've done saunas but that
is a whole different level of what you're doing
and at first especially due to the fact i had
no expectations going down there i didn't know
what to expect which was a good thing for me
honestly because I was just like, just go with
the flow. And that is one thing I will applaud
DJ and Cole for. They literally told him, like,
we're not telling you about what's going to happen
down there because you need to experience it
on your own. But there was one thing DJ said.
He's like, when you do the 5ML, your ego is going
to fight. You got to kill it. That's all he said.
And I was like, all right, whatever that means.
But yeah, we'll deal with that. So get through
the comma aspect of things. Sauna is intense.
But you feel great after you do it. I will tell
anybody that goes to do it, try to push through
it. It sucks a little bit, but there's a reason
that they do it that way. And then applaud the
lady that was in there with us because she's
an absolute beast. We're in there in literally
our drawers and nothing, just dying on the floor.
She's in like a full dress from head to toe,
just hanging out. So that was an amazing thing
there. You're always got your fluids, IVs. We
did all that. Dinner was great. And then day
two is when you do the Ibogaine. You want to
talk about Ibogaine a little bit or you just
want to go through the flow of things? Yeah,
for people listening, just kind of underline
what it is. So Ibogaine, it actually comes from
the root of a plant out in Gabon, Africa, and
it's a psychedelic. And the story that I got
behind it was that one day there was a hunter
that was hunting. I don't know what it was exactly.
And I guess his arrow penetrated the animal and
a root. And then when... He pulled the arrow
back out. It got into the animal and then he
was eating the meat. And then I guess went on
a crazy psychedelic journey. And that's how they
found out what this route does. And it does a
whole lot more like guys and girls that are listening.
Like I can explain to you what it does and you
won't understand until you actually sit down
and see what it does for you. But it assists
with individuals that are addicted to SSRIs,
alcoholism, PTSD. There's been Stanford studies
with TBI that. Apparently TBI is not curable,
but there has been cases that people are fully
cured from this. I've seen guys, myself personally,
alcoholism messes our eyes in 24 hours, done.
Cold turkey, finished. Don't even want to taste
anything. And anybody that's seen anybody addicted
knows that that is not the case 99 % of the time
without any assistance. And also just to say
this, it is not a one thing that cures all. And
it's not like a one -all, fix -all, and you're
done after one. There is work that is involved
with this integration beginning, during, and
after, which we'll talk about that later. And
that's kind of what 343 assists with. But moving
forward in my journey. So Ibogaine Day comes.
We're working on some breathwork, which was huge
for me because I didn't really understand breathwork
either, which is also part of the integration
that we do here at 343. And then Ibogaine Night.
So we did something. With our intentions, kind
of write down everything you want out of this.
My big thing was patience. I wanted to see my
father. I knew that was a big part of why, because
my father passed away. I'm sorry I didn't put
that part out there. And I knew that was a big
part of my anger. I didn't get to say goodbye
to him before he passed. And that hurt. So dealing
with that, and then I just turned that into a
whole lot of anger and emotion that I had. So
wrote all that down. Want to see my kids, father.
Needed to know why I was there, what's my purpose
here. Since now I'm not a police officer, I didn't
know what my purpose was. I was having a hard
time figuring that out. And then patience was
a big thing. Like, I need help with that. So
the way it's administered is, I believe it's
three pills. So first pill you take, wait an
hour, they administer another one, and then the
last one is your flood dose that kind of gets
the party started, if you will. um take it with
a spoonful of honey because this stuff does not
taste great um so and then they tell you um when
you lay down you'll know it's working when you're
gonna hear like a staticky sound in your ear
and at this point i'm still in my brain i'm like
yeah whatever this stuff is not like it's not
gonna work there's no way this stuff is gonna
work um i was like whatever let's go with it
so i've heard a couple people told me there's
a mirror in front of you sit there and you're
laying in a bed and they say like a lot of times
if you look in the mirror Sit down and kind of
listen to the music because they've got Buiti
tribe music playing that you'll see things happening.
So took my last pill, sitting there, nothing.
Looking in the mirror, nothing. All right, whatever.
So they give you a blindfold, and I can tell
you for a fact this thing is a full blindfold.
You can't see through it. You can't see light
through it. You can't see around it. And that's
for the story I'm about to tell you. So I was
like, let me put this blindfold on. I'm going
to lay down. Whatever. Lay down, nothing. Kind
of pass out. Go to sleep. And I'm like, how am
I going to sleep now? I'm hearing other guys
snoring. And I'm like, wow. All right, wake up.
Nothing still. Guy next to me is throwing up.
So there's a guy purging. And that's another
thing, too. You will purge. 80 % of people will
purge. 80 % of people will see visions. But 20
% of people won't purge. 20 % of people won't
see visions. I hate throwing up. I was praying
that I was 20 % of those people that didn't throw
up. I actually was fortunate I didn't puke. Got
close, but didn't throw up. So I'm hearing this
guy next to me throw up. And at this point, I'm
like, oh, my God, I'm going to puke if I keep
listening to this. So I'm trying to fight it
off. And at the same time, I'm looking down at
my chest, and I see this meter on my chest, legit
like almost like you see with the sound meter
on the screen. And I'm looking at it, and every
time I'd get sick and feel like throw up coming
up, I'd watch it go from green. And when it hit
like mid -chest, that's like the red area, I'd
see it hit mid -chest area, and I'd start breathing.
When I'd breathe, I'd be able to control myself,
calm down, and work it through. I was like, all
right. That's working. Mind you, I didn't really
think it through. I'm like, I'm looking at a
meter and I'm watching throw up, go up and down.
So I didn't think about that at the time, but
I was like, all right, whatever. It's working
out. So I kind of pass out again. And then I
go through the stage and they say the medicine
works off of vibration and the music. And there
was this song playing and the beat was. And I
heard right before this happened. this crazy
static in my ear. And I was like, okay, I see
what they're talking about now. Then it went
from like a crazy static to just like a socket
was just blown up in my ear. And I could hear
like this electricity going off in my brain.
And I was like, okay, we're about to get into
this. Whatever's happening is about to happen
now. And then I just started vibrating to the
music. Like my body was legitimately vibrating
to the music. And through all of this, as crazy
as it may sound, I was never really nervous.
Like there was never a sense of like, I'm panicking
right now. I was almost like, God has this and
it's all going to work. Whatever has happened,
it's God's. It's going to work out. So I'm going
through this whole shaking period on the bed
and I'm kind of like looking around like, is
anybody seeing this right now? Like, is this
bad? What's happening? Nobody's moving. I'm seeing
everybody. Everybody's kind of in their own world
doing their thing. Okay. So I kind of pass back
out, wake up again, and I'm still. doing the
vibrating thing off the bed. And then I kind
of just stops. It was almost like I went into
this new world. It was kind of like wake, somebody's
like shaking you to wake up. And I woke up and
then it was done. And I even feel like I was
in a different place. So that point, I won't
lie to you. I was like, you know what? This is
getting a little wild right now. I'm ready to
leave. So I went to sit up and leave. So as I
went to sit up and leave, I felt this hand in
my chest. Nobody's around me. I felt the hand
on my chest. And I'm not a small individual.
I'm not a weakening. If I want to get up, I'm
getting up. And I couldn't move. Legit, I sat
halfway up and I couldn't budge. And I was like,
whoa, that's the strongest thing I've ever felt
in my life. And I looked and it was this green
outline of this human being. And on their face,
it was like this eagle head that I saw. And I
was like, what is that? It was like this. aura
around him and that's what was putting his hand
in my chest literally told me no you're not going
anywhere you need to do this i laid back down
i was like i'm clearly not moving so i'm gonna
lay back down and then literally told me don't
talk listen and i felt my mouth it felt like
my tongue weighed a thousand pounds i literally
felt my mouth just shut and locked and i was
in it and then felt like my body just got strapped
down to the bed i was like all right Let's do
this. Whatever we're going to do, I'm not going
anywhere. So let's just take this ride. And I'm
going to fast forward through this. There's so
much to cover on this, but kind of got into this
whole journey beginning. I went through it. I
was able to see my kids, which was the first
big thing that I saw and was with my kids throughout
this process. And I was extraordinarily happy
because part of the. issue I had in my life was
that I was able to get happy like I'm happy at
moments I got on a SWAT team I'm happy I won
championships in football I'm happy but never
that overly ecstatic happy to hear like when
your kids are born you hear people talk about
just that overly ecstatic happiness I was extremely
happy when my kids were born but I never had
that feeling of like that over ecstatic feeling
and I was looking for it and I was like it's
not here like where is it why can't I get this
and I remember going through the journey with
them And I remember feeling it. And I started
crying. And I felt myself crying. And I remember
saying out loud, too, like, I'm so happy right
now. I said another term, but I'm not going to
say it. I was like, I'm so happy right now. So
we're going through everything. And then it was
a point where I kind of had to let my kids go
somewhere. And I get to this scene. So the way
everything was going, it was like movie scenes
just going across the screen from me. And it
was my life. I was literally going through my
life from birth to present moment. And we got
to a screen and I remember seeing it was a blue
screen and it was a top left corner of the screen
that I could not unfocus from. I was just stuck
on this corner. And as the screen is like kind
of going by disappearing into the next screen,
out of my peripheral, I could see somebody. And
you know, when you see somebody, you know, you
don't have to even look. You're like, okay, I
know that body. I know who that is. This is so
-and -so. I'm looking at the corner. I see a
peripheral of two people. And as I'm watching
it disappear, I'm like. wait a minute. That's
my dad. So I was like, damn. So I look over and
it's him, but the screen is disappearing. So
at this point I'm like, no way. There's no way
I came here and he's standing there and he's
going to disappear. So I grabbed the screen and
I am just ripping this thing back with everything
I have. I'm pulling the screen back. And it was
like the medicine knew I needed this. It let
me pull it back and stick it. And it kind of
stopped for a second. So it was my dad and my
grandfather. Because my grandfather's father
had passed away. And they were very close. And
I got to talk to him. Legit. Got to say everything
I wanted to. This moment gets me emotional thinking
about it. Talk to him. Say goodbye. Say everything
I needed to say. And I remember feeling like
that heaviness just lift off me. Like it just
disappeared. And I was like, I'm good. I'm good.
We did what we had to do finally. and said my
goodbyes, and he went about his way. And I remember
saying it again, like I'm happy. And go through
the whole process. There's a bunch of other things
happened, some things I had to forgive some people.
I was able to do that. Saw a couple scenes in
life that I had to deal with. I was able to deal
with that. Remember I told you I asked for patience?
There were several times in this journey where
things just stopped. Like things weren't. whatever
it was prepping, whatever it had to be done,
and I'd get frustrated. And I could feel myself
getting frustrated. Every single time, I remember
the first time it popped up, a box popped up
in front of me. Black box and the word patience.
Every single time I'd get frustrated. It would
pop up, hard stop, anything was going on, it
would stop mid -scene, the word patience would
pop up, and as soon as I calmed down, it would
take down and then we'd keep going. Several times
that happened. I was like, okay, I get it now.
I see what you're doing. I'm learning a lesson
here. So we go through the whole process, which
is, again, the journey could last, I mean, 12
hours, 18 hours. Some people, I mean, they run
through it for a day and a half, depending on
the individual themselves. Mine, I think, was
a roundabout because you have no concept of real
time when you're in there. I think I was about
12, 13 hours. I went through this. And then I
get to the end. And in the end, I remember asking,
I was like. I got everything else I needed that
I asked for, but purpose. What is my purpose
here? Big movie screen popped up, and the word
gentle was there. I remember thinking, like,
what does that mean, gentle? What are we talking
about here? I just kept flashing gentle. And
I remember hearing, be gentle. I was like, all
right. It was like, be gentle to yourself. I
was like, okay, this makes more sense now. And
then, ironically, I'll say this. My kid's mom
at the time, She used to always, she's Hispanic,
and she used to always tell me, like, you're
extremely masculine. Like, you're extremely,
like, hardcore. Like, nothing in a physical way,
just like you walk around, like, hard all the
time. Like, you look angry all the time. You
need to be more gentle. But she used to say it
in Spanish. And she used to call me, I always
forget what she used to call me in Spanish. Bruto
in Spanish. Like, you're a brute, you're a barbarian
the way you walk. And I remember seeing that.
I was like, you got to be kidding me. I was like,
you're telling me this whole time she's been
telling me this. This is the word. Even my trip,
I can't get away from this. So I remember seeing
it. I was like, okay, I got it. I was like, I
see what you're saying here. You know, we forget
to be gentle. Like even like when we were kids,
we just were so hard on ourselves all the time
about things. And it just creates so much that
we go through life with it and just our traumas.
that we deal with. People think that you have
to be this hardcore either cop or vet that's
been through some insane combat to say you have
trauma. That's not the case. We all have trauma.
Every person on this planet has trauma. And majority
of the time, I would say probably 100 % of the
time, it's not because of what we did. It's not
because of what I was doing as a cop. That's
not the trauma that I was dealing with. I didn't
see any of that stuff. I was concerned and scared
that I was going to have to sit there and relive
that stuff out. traumas most of the time when
we're kids and it could be sexual abuse it could
be beaten it could be somebody stole your toy
you know that's a trauma that's the part that
we don't take in consideration is that we try
to compare our traumas and we'll say like james
your trauma was um like i said scenario toy got
taken away but i was beat as a kid you don't
have trauma no your perspective is that toy getting
taken away was it was a life changer for you
you know and that's where we don't see that and
understand that everything that happened up to
this point, it has created who you are. I'm a
cop because of something that happened when I
was a kid. That's why I became a cop. That's
why I decided to play football. That's why I
needed to be involved the way I was. You're doing
what you're doing because of X, Y, and Z, whatever
it may be, you know? So that kind of led me to
where I was at. And then after the Ibogaine,
go through your grade day, there's some other
stuff that happened, but I'm going to fast forward
to the 5MEO because that was the most prolific.
experience I've ever had in my entire life. Um,
so the five MEO, I go, I, um, was administer
it. You're missing through a pipe. And I was
like, ironically, I'm smoking out of a, what
looks like a crack pipe. I was like, Scott, I
already did this. Um, and the experience I was
understanding that it was going to be either
extremely euphoric or you're going to deal with
some stuff. And I dealt with some stuff and I
needed to. So I went into a battle with my ego
like no other. Hardest battle that I've ever
been in in my life. I dealt with it that day.
And then I went through the ride. And when I
came out on the other end, I was 180 degrees
different of a person. I let out at the end of
that experience, every... Every emotion, every
feeling, every cry that I ever held back and
locked away just spewed out of me. I couldn't
stop it. I legitimately cried for like 15 minutes
straight. Anybody who knows me, you've probably
never seen me cry in my life. I legit cried,
made up for every second that I've missed out
on crying in life in that moment. But after that,
it was like there was a release of a valve that
was just getting ready to explode that was like
no other. I could see clearer. I could hear sounds
just sounded better. I can't explain it to people
other than if you've done it, you'll know exactly
what I'm talking about. Everybody in the world
did this simultaneously. No issues in this world.
You can kick my dog down the stairs in front
of me. I'd have been like, whatever, you know,
we go down there and pick them up. Then I was
legitimately that great of a feeling. And even
to this day, it's still, it has put me in a mindset
where. like I told you in the beginning, I went
from A to Z without going B, C, D. And to this
point, to this day, it's like, A, okay, this
is where we're at. B, do I even need to go to
C at this point? Like, screw it. I'm done here.
Like, I'm done. Like, that's it. Two plus two
is five. It's five, whatever. That's what you
believe. That's what you believe. Good story.
Cool. My day has not changed because of that
situation. And it has helped me out through life
in so many different ways for my kids, any relationships,
people I talk to. just being more open -minded,
treating people with more grace, you know, having
more of an understanding for people's battles
and daily just traumas they deal with, you know.
Even just raising my kids, man. Just things where
I'd be like, oh, so uptight with them before.
Like, don't do that. Don't do this. Stay here.
But it's like, what are we doing here? You're
working yourself up more than anything. Just
enjoy the moment, you know. Just being more present
in the moment has put me in that position. And
then after this whole experience, It was like
doors were opening at this point. So I started
going down this path where things, I was meeting
more people now, people that out of nowhere,
we'd start having conversations and all of a
sudden we're talking about Ibogaine and same
thing they did. And I'm like, how many people
know about this stuff? You know, how many people
don't know about this stuff? And then I went
down to Mexico again, we filmed a documentary
out there and I was with a couple of guys and,
An Instagram post popped up because I was thinking,
like, purpose. Like, what am I doing here still?
I got this stuff. I'm better. But how do we share
this? Like, I'm a walking poster boy at this
point. I'll tell everybody this story. I don't
care what you think about me. I will tell you
this story. Everybody should do this at least
once, I feel. Especially just because we deal
with so much trauma on a daily basis. And we
just compartmentalize, don't know how to be emotionally
mature about things is another big part. Or just
battles that we're dealing with on a regular
basis as first responders. a lot of times it
ends with we see what the suicide rate is that's
how it ends um i was like what else can i do
and i was speaking to uh a vet down there and
all of a sudden it's like our phones are always
listening to us i'm on my instagram feed and
343 pops up i'm like what is this reading through
it what happened with 343 how it was created
what angela did who angela was who casey was
and something told me i was like I need to reach
out. I need to reach out and see what I can do
in this world of first responders. That's my
thing. I'm not a vet, so I can't really touch
too much on that. I was like, in the first responder
world, I know this is needed. I've talked to
and dealt with way too many guys that need this
and don't have any route out other than a bottle
or, like I stated before, other things. Reached
out, immediately responded, which I was like,
okay, that was fast. We had a meeting. We sat
down and talked, spoke with Angela, some of the
people behind the scenes, and we figured out
that it's time. It's time to get out there and
speak to the people. Let them know what's going
on, what Ibogaine is, what first responders are
dealing with on a regular basis. Understandably
so or not. Talk to the first responders. Let
the tough guys and tough girls know it's okay.
There are other people out here dealing with
it. Because that's a problem I had too. It's
like, ah, nobody's dealing with this stuff. What
you dealing with? Stop being a little girl. Stop
doing all that stuff. But people are all dealing
with it. And that is in short what we do. But
the bigger picture, 343, it's a nonprofit. And
we involve ourselves with assisting first responders
and their families being able to attain the treatment
for PTSD. Utilizing Abigain, SSRI addiction,
alcoholism, TBI, so on and so forth, providing
grants for the service through our nonprofit.
And the big part of this, and I didn't understand
what integration was when I did this, because
like I told you before, I was just sped through
the process. And it was meant for me to do it
that way, because if I had to do integration,
it would have gave me so many routes out of this.
The integration part of it is huge, huge. And
for people to understand what the integration
is, it is the aspect that we provide. And I'll
even raise this workbook up here. They created
a workbook that has some great, can't see it
on the camera, some great aspects of things and
explain what Ibogaine is, breath work, different
coaches that are involved for your pre journey,
post journey, and then just the work after. The
whole process that is constant. It is not a stop
one, like I said, one all fix type of scenario.
That is one big thing, being the premier provider
for these services for first responders and their
families that I think 343 does like no other.
And the care and the time that people don't see
that this whole organization, Angela is a rock
star. I mean, you've talked to her. The stuff
that she talked about, it's not half of it. It
doesn't scratch the surface of what she's doing
on a daily basis here. And I don't know how she
does it, honestly, because I wouldn't be able
to do it physically for the amount of hours and
time she puts into this to care for people in
the manner she does. And then just the coaches,
integration coaches, your breathwork coaches,
admin things. I'll shout out Jill for the stuff
she does because that woman is a rock star. I
don't, again, don't know how she's able to do
it, but there are other people behind the scenes
that make this thing what it is and what it needs
to continue to do and grow. And as we know, Ibogaine
is becoming something that is going to come to
the United States here soon and hopefully be
a treatment that we'll be able to as first responders
and just regular everyday citizens and civilians
have access to for the necessary needs that we
have as human beings. you know so that is a short
of that so it's kind of a story a little bit
there no no it's amazing though and i think what
makes your voice so powerful and i've had this
with with many people i just had a a guy on recently
uh russell jones who was a vietnam helicopter
pilot then california police officer then undercover
agent but he got involved in in a lot of the
uh the kind of war on drug side and again you
know he ended up coming out saying look this
is a failed war this is we just we're not doing
it right so when law enforcement talks about
this i think it really puts it front and center
because it's easy for you know some guy with
long hair and rose -colored glasses and tie -dye
clothes to talk about psychedelics but the people
that we have told to enforce the war on drugs
and demonize all these drugs you know it is the
most powerful voice when you talked about reflecting
on the things that came up in the journeys and
that the actual traumatic calls, air quotes,
weren't the main things that we're seeing. It's
something that I've heard over and over and over
again. Jake Clark from Save a Warrior really
opened my eyes to the prevalence of trauma in
the uniform professions and childhood trauma.
I think it's important to underline that. If
addressed, I truly believe that becomes a strength.
That is resilience. It's trauma that's being
worked through. But so many of us, as you said,
bury it down. And our coping mechanism is, well,
let me form this coat of armor. I'm going to
be a protector. I'm going to be a martial artist,
whatever the things are, a soldier, which is
an admirable journey unless you're doing it to
fill a void that's unfillable. And then that
becomes an issue. So I know a lot of people that...
had a parent, both parents kind of leave, you
know, and you mentioned your father is your stepfather.
There was that felt that feeling of abandonment.
Why wasn't I good enough for my, you know, biological
parent, et cetera. When you reflect back now,
what was some of the elements of your upbringing
that contributed to the kind of fracture of the
foundation initially? Honestly, that part wasn't
an issue for me in my life. My father, I didn't
know my biological father and my stepfather who
I call my, that's why I call my father was there.
for me from the get -go um so that was i never
felt sensitive abandonment he was never somebody
that i ever felt like i was less of i was only
part of the family that is one thing i will say
that he never allowed me to feel um and even
the fact that i'm black and he was white that's
where suzo comes from like you would figure that
somebody would see that mix and then it'd be
like totally off the chain and like i'm not accepting
this it was never the case so i can't say that
had anything to do with it honestly Um, as youth,
I, I really don't know how to touch it in the
younger ages of things, I guess. Um, sometimes
I was a little problem child. I did some things,
you know, I was running around figuring out learning
life lessons the hard way. Um, my mom is a very,
uh, say we were raised in a militaristic mindset,
tough, great woman, loved the woman, killed it
as a parent. Still killing it as a woman, especially
stuff that she's dealt with with my father passing
away when he did. But I also feel the hardest
part for me was I never wanted to let him down.
It's funny you bring this up. I never actually
talked about this. Now I'm thinking about it.
You just touched the top that I've never really
talked about. I never really wanted to let him
down. Because he bought me into sports. Like,
he was the reason I started playing sports. And
honestly, I never really wanted to play sports.
I was good at what I did and played college football,
everything like that. But I always felt like
I never wanted to let him down in particular
with things. And then that led into, like I said,
the protective mindset of things is like, I've
got to make sure he's always good when it comes
to protecting him. And then the hardest part
was when he was passing away. was i couldn't
do anything and they can hit a string on this
one um i felt like i let him down because i couldn't
i was his protector and i had to just watch him
die you know and it sucked doing that um so that
was a big part of it too and then i just turned
that into just anger and then just took it out
on a football field i was good i had a little
valve where i I could go hurt people on a football
field and let it out a little bit. As funny as
it's not, that's the way I would do it. But I
felt like I let him down there. And then all
of a sudden I was told to be, I was kind of given
the torch to be the man of the family. I wasn't
ready for that. You know, I was young, still
figuring things out. I was a knucklehead, stuff
I was doing still. And it was just like, I just
did not know what to do. And I just kind of,
honestly, I kind of ran away from it. I ran away
from it. I went and I did other things and I
kept trying to find things to do other than that,
just to keep me away from, I guess, the accountability
aspect of things. And then when my grandfather
passed away, that was another big part. And that's
why I felt like I needed to say goodbye to them
because when my grandfather passed away and he
was another huge supporter of me, like this guy.
And today he was like, I would go to all my sport
events. I had no business being out in the cold
at a football game, but tell him he's not going
out there. Good luck. And when he was passing
away and he was dying, he asked to be home. And
everybody's telling him, no, he's got to be in
the doctor. And they didn't tell me this. And
I don't hold this against my family at all. But
it hurt. Was they asked? He asked to find me
because I was I think I was out of state at the
time. Get Aaron over here to pick me up and bring
me back home. And I remember when I heard it,
cause I heard it after he passed away, I was
thinking in my head, like, why wouldn't you tell
me that? And I was like, I know why you wouldn't
tell me that. Cause you know, I'd go in there,
I'd pick him up and I'd walk him through Staten
Island and bring him home just so he could sit
down and be comfortable. And yeah, I think that
had a lot to do with it. And then having my younger
brothers too, like just, I'm supposed to be a
role model for these guys and protecting them,
protecting my mom. And it's like, I'm this protector,
but I'm not doing it. You know? So I was just.
beating myself up for that um yeah honestly my
child my childhood wasn't bad i can't really
say that there was anything i mean the normal
stuff you know i messed up got a whooping for
things but 99 .9 of those whoopings i deserved
um other than that uh i remember when i lived
in new york there's a vivid memory of um being
involved there was a shootout outside of a laundromat
i don't think my mom even remembers that i remember
this I vividly remember a shootout happening
outside a laundromat. And I remember not being
scared. I remember her pushing me under like
a dryer, like under the little folding area.
And I remember wanting to get out from under
there to go see what was going on out there.
And I remember wanting to go towards what was
happening and not wanting to hide. And those
little things, like I said, it was the small
things throughout my childhood. That led up to
that. And that was, I think, a big one because
I vividly remember the laundromat. I remember
hearing the gunshots and I remember that stuff.
And yeah, hopefully that answers your question
a little bit. No, it does. It does. I think one
of the worst conversations when it comes to our
professions and mental health is, you know, well,
you had those officer involved shootings. I had
that decapitated three -year -old, you know,
whatever the thing is. And more often than not,
yeah, of course, was that traumatic? Absolutely.
But if we're not looking at, you know, it doesn't
matter whether it was childhood or 25 years,
but before you put the uniform on, what were
the things? Because each of those that you talked
about, they are large T, they are traumas. And
again, if left unaddressed, especially with my
career, 14 years in the fire service, I didn't
have a single cardiac arrest safe, which is.
unheard of people normally save at least one
you know what i mean so you're groomed where
you're told if you do a b and c then the result
is d like this person will then you know come
to the station a week later and bring a cake
and maybe in the paper and no none of that they
all died all of them every single one so again
that inability to save can be crushing and that's
a stranger not to mention you know, like you
said, the guilt and shame, even though it's unwarranted
of not being able to save your loved one or your
partner or your best friend or whoever it is.
Yeah, it definitely is. I mean, apologies that
you had to even deal with that. That was like,
unfortunately, what you said was like my one
nightmare. I can't deal with watching kids get
hurt. I can't. I was blessed to never have to
ever deal with something like that. There was
one office where there was some things that happened,
but. That would have been automatic. I'm done
here. I'm not coming back from this one. So I
feel for you on that one. I will tell you there
was an incident. And it didn't pop up until after
I retired how much this affected me. We went
to, and right before this happened, I was chasing
some guy. I almost shot this guy on a bike. Guy's
running around a school zone with a gun. And
so, like, running into my gun. Luckily, my finger
wasn't on the trigger of that gun because it
went off. Rightfully so, but it is what it is.
So right after that, I go from that call to a
shots fired call in the house. And in Hayward,
California, that's not unheard of, of guns going
off all the time out there. So then we got another
call. Lady's calling, said that some of her son
is shot in the house. Me and my partner get there
first, go in the house, hook a left. Middle -aged,
kid's probably 24, 25 -year -old kid, 38, still
smoking. out of his mouth exit wound at the top
of his head. He's clear. He's doing the last,
his last breaths. You clearly know that he's
about to go. You search the house, make sure
it was exactly what you think it is. It is. So
luckily you guys, the fire guys get there. Cause
that saves us a lot of trauma ourselves. Honestly,
God bless you guys. I know we give each other
a lot of crap, but God bless you guys. When you
get there and we can back out and let you do
your thing. They go in there to do their thing.
You clearly know that he's, he's 10, 10, he's
gone. But you gotta, In a sense, a lie to the
family. And that's where it starts. Like you
got to turn off that emotion switch and you just
got to start working. So I grabbed the lady,
black lady, pull her out. Son is a white mixed
kid. And it's going to be relevant why I said
that in a second. I kind of pull her to the side
outside, put her on the other side of the car
because I know it's about to happen. And if anybody
has ever had the unfortunate experience of holding
a mother away from their child in a situation
like that, It is probably one of the hardest
things I've ever done in my life. I'm not a weak
individual. I was bear -hugging this lady as
hard as I can, and she was getting out of my
grip. It wasn't a big lady, and she was getting
at it. I was to the point where I was like, I'm
going to have to break her ribs to keep her here.
So I'm trying to let paramedics get him out of
there because I don't want her to see him like
that. And she's just losing it. So as I'm holding
her on the other side of the car, trying to keep
her face and me away from it, a guy pulls up
in a truck. It's a white guy. So he comes up
and you clearly see he's the father. So he's
asking questions like, I need you over here right
now. I tell them, I was like, I need you to look
at her and I need you to just talk to her and
deal with her right now. I need to go over there
and we need to get him in that because he's fighting
right now, but we need to get him out of there.
And at this point, I know in my head, I'm like,
I'm lying to these people. It's fucking kids.
Excuse me. This kid is gone. Like he's not coming
back from this. So come to find out story is
she, he comes home, is about to commit suicide.
She works down the street and forgot her lunch
that day. Comes home to get her lunch. And just
as timing being what it is, walks in as he pulls
the trigger and watches him off himself. So as
I'm putting these two together, the kid is getting
rolled out. All of a sudden in my head, I related
this lady as my mother and this guy as my father.
And the kid on the gurney was my brother. And
I was just like, oh, shoot. And I remember thinking
to myself, like, get out of this right now. I
was like, you need to get it together. And I
shut it down immediately like that. Put it away,
never thought about it again. And then about
a year ago, it popped up. And the whole thing
came together for me. And I remember crying,
too. I was by myself when this came up. I remember
crying. And it literally felt like that happened
to me. And that was a hard one for me. Even to
this day, like just thinking about and telling
a story, it gets me. Those are the traumas similar
to like yours with that three -year -old, man.
You can't get rid of it. It stays there. It affects
you and you directly correlate it with like it
happened to you. And people don't understand
like that feeling, that helplessness. Like you
said, 14 times you're supposed to save somebody.
You start thinking to yourself, like, what am
I, a failure here? Like, what am I doing? Supposed
to be saving lives and I haven't done one yet,
you know? Or like being in a position to do something.
And it's like, I can't do that. You're helpless.
I'm supposed to be the superhero here and I can't
do anything for you, buddy. You know? So just
to piggyback off that, man, that was, that was
one of them for me that sticks with me to this
day. It was that watching that one happen. And
that's, that's a trauma I had to, I had to work
through. Like that was that I saw that throughout
my journey. That was part of it that I saw. And
I had to kind of tell myself, like, no, it's
good, man. Like, that wasn't you, you know. It's
the traumas that first responders deal with and
people don't really understand on a civilian
basis. It's just like it is every single day.
You've popped a bubble that you can never put
back together. You've seen things that you will
never unsee. You will never unsee. I don't wish
it upon some of the worst people in this world,
some of the stuff that you watch and people do
and the evil that you see, the effects it has
on you. you, your family, you know, because it
trickles over, you know, you don't know how to
deal with their emotion. So now you're angry.
So now somebody's got to pay for it. Wife says
something that's, I don't know, just doesn't
make sense that day. And now you just snap them
off for no reason. You know, your kid says something
while you're in an angry moment. Now you're going
to get it now, you know? And then they don't
deserve it. You know, they did absolutely nothing.
And then you try to explain it to them. And that's
where you go wrong too, because you expect them
to understand it. And they're not understanding.
So now you get more frustrated than not understanding
it. You know, I'm telling you, yeah, I just watched
some kid off himself. Oh yeah, that sucks. What
do you want to go eat for dinner? It's just like,
wait a minute. Did you hear what I just said?
You know, but you expect people to relate with
you on that side of things. And you have no help.
And then with first responders, what are we supposed
to do? Let's go see our therapist. You know what
our therapist is for. So you can sign off and
get back to work. That's what it's for, you know?
99 .9%. I'm not talking to you anyway. So let's
just do what we got to do. You good? Yeah, I'm
good. All right, what do I got to sign? So first
responders, just to get off of this part, is
we need more outlets and more assistance with
this stuff, with the things that you've seen
and dealt with. It's amazing that you have this
platform to do it. It's amazing what Angela and
the team have done with 343 to begin this process.
It's amazing that we have found. a holistic way
to do things other than SSRIs, alcohol, and shoot,
let me get a feeling from a woman or a man or
whatever. Just get a relationship for five minutes
just to feel something and go right back to my
numb ways of life. It is necessary and it is
time because I'm tired of going to funerals.
I'm tired of hearing about funerals. I'm tired
of hearing people taking their lives without
a sign anywhere that you even saw coming. My
partner took his life, and I thought this kid
was the happiest kid in the world. I was laughing
with him 10 hours before he did it. And I'm thinking,
I have a miserable life. And clearly, there was
something going on even more than I knew about.
But yeah, we have to give the guys and girls
that put it out there the sacrifice of not only
their lives, but their families' lives every
single day, hour after hour. It's not only when
they're on the clock either. It happens. It happens
24 -7. So, I mean, it's just, it's so much, so
much. You mentioned about, you know, coming back
and snapping at the kids. And obviously that
was a pivotal moment in your story as well. One
of the truths that's emerged again from all these
stories, all these lived experiences, when you
have that perfect storm of all the contributing
factors, you know, again, unaddressed childhood
trauma, sleep deprivation, organizational betrayal,
the things we actually see on the job. you know
the side effects of alcohol psych meds etc etc
over and over again i hear the same thing that
little voice in people's ear is whispering louder
and louder saying you are a burden to your family
and they would be better off if you just weren't
here that would fix everything makes no sense
to a healthy mind but when your entire reality
has been distorted It makes perfect sense. And
then you add the fact that you've got a person
who swore to die for a complete stranger in your
profession, has the means of suicide strapped
to their waist. Now, what we used to call cowardly
and selfish in that distorted moment, I would
argue, was courageous and selfless. It was wrong.
It was a distorted perception. But it was at
that moment that person's like, I'm the problem.
Let me just remove myself. Did you have any element
of that voice whispering in your ear? So I didn't
have it in a suicidal ideology of me taking my
life. I never had those ideologies. I had it
in the aspect I was chasing a dragon. I would
put myself in scenarios where I wanted the most
insane, chaotic scene. I wanted that active shooter.
I wanted that and I wanted to be in the middle
of it. I wanted to go out on my shield in the
most insane shootout ever. I would get into situations
that I would purposely put people. It wasn't
out of any sort of legal activity I was doing,
but I knew what potentially could happen, and
I was going to make sure I was involved in that
aspect. Foot chases, guys with guns, any sort
of scenarios that could be the end of things,
I would do it, and I would make sure that I was
there. when it happened. And I knew I was doing
it. 100 % knew I was doing it. I would set up
on people just to make sure that, you know what,
I'm going to push this as close as I can. Or
if not as close as I can, let's get right in
the middle of this dance right now. I mean, fortunately,
it was a bigger purpose to me here because there
were several scenarios that it could have happened.
It definitely could have happened. And luckily,
somebody was looking over me, put some wings
over my back several of those times. But yeah.
i that's the way i was going after i was hunting
for that i wanted the super bowl i wanted to
play in that game right there um and it's not
a good game to play until you you might win once
twice but your numbers dwindle down very fast
when you're um chasing that dragon and that's
literally what it was for me so in a sense yes
that was what i was doing it's interesting someone
this is probably a couple years ago now but they
were talking about i think it was maybe one of
the sas guys But they were talking about one
of the heroes, the legendary heroes in their
group that they work with. And they said this
person would literally go off running towards
gunfire and all that kind of thing. And he said,
people thought that was heroism. But I think
they knew the person. They were like, but it
wasn't. They were in crisis. They didn't value
their life anymore. So a lot of these stories
of heroism that we hear. there's probably this
exact conversation behind it because the reality
is most people want to go home even if you're
in war you still want to go home back to your
kids so what you know what we kind of mistake
i think sometimes for this just you know selfless
courage with a clear mind is probably closer
to what you're talking about kind of an abandonment
for their own value of life and then well let
me go out as a hero then right yeah it's like
they say go out on your shield and you don't
you don't think about it in the aspect of a clear
mind because in a clear mind you think about
it like if i do this i'm not going home to my
kids you know my kids are going to have to sit
there and go to a funeral i'm going to have friends
family have to do things that they don't want
to do you know and in a sense like i would a
lot of times i call suicide selfish in a way
um because you don't think about the people that
have to be involved with everything people have
to find your body people gonna have to go through
the whole process of talking to your family and
it might trigger traumas that they have you know
um of loss on and so forth um but when you do
like put it the way you just put it it's it's
almost the same thing in a sense you know um
you put yourself in that scenario you got yeah
you'll have a hurrah and an applaud but technically
you kind of just abandoned your family and everybody
else by putting yourself in a situation now don't
get me wrong there are situations sometimes that
you know it's we have to go do what we have to
go do active shooters it kind of sucks but There
are days where it's like, all right, this may
be it, but I have to go stop this guy. There's
a bigger purpose to this when it comes to these
things. But I can say there was a point where
I was actively looking for that aspect of it.
And like I said, luckily something went in my
head and a voice was talking to me and said,
that's enough. Like, you're done here. You know,
I ignored it several times. I had it several
times happen. I was like, yeah, I'm good. We
don't need that. Nope, I'm good. The last one,
I was like, no, that's it, man. I'm not good.
You've done enough. Don't get me wrong. There's
days where I look back sometimes and I miss the
teams. I miss the team aspect of things. And
that is another part, especially coming from
this line of work and then the team aspect of
things, SWAT, working with all the guys. And
you'll hear a lot of guys that are on the teams
in military that say the same thing. You just
miss that camaraderie. You get into a regular
civilian job and you're like. you guys do here
like you know you get paid great you sit at a
desk in the office but it's like some days i'm
just looking around at the walls and i'm like
okay uh what are we doing you know there's nobody
there to talk to you but yeah i definitely i
i do agree with you with your comments well even
going back to the you know the selfish comment
this is what was so revealing is again when you're
on the outside looking in with a clear mind It
makes no sense whatsoever. Of course, you're
passing all that pain and trauma onto your children.
And it's that next domino has fallen. But I think
this is the aha moment that I had is when you
listen to these people that were right there.
And I had, you know, so many that were about
to and something stopped them. And then quite
a few that went through with it and they survived
their attempt. And the moment that they jumped
from the bridge, the moment they squeezed a trigger,
there was this. immediate return to reality and
regret, which is so sad because right before,
you know, is when everything pulls back together
again. But in this distorted reality that I said,
these people really believe that the solution
to their family's pain is to take their own life.
So this is where this selfish, you know, selfish
versus selfless act in that distorted mind. And
I think it's a really powerful thing to. to hear
from other people that are still here to tell
us, because then I feel like it adds some compassion
and empathy to the people that we've lost because
they weren't being selfish. They weren't cowards.
They weren't, well, screw my family. I'm out
of here. It's the opposite. I'm going to save
my family by removing myself. And it makes no
sense. But then neither does coming back from
combat or coming back from years in the fire
service or law enforcement where you were every
day actively trying not to die. and then dying
by your own hands. So I think this is a really
important point for people to hear is if you
have that voice in your ear telling you that
you are a burden, that you are the problem, that
is a huge red flag to immediately start looking
for someone to talk to. Yeah. There's that aspect
of looking for somebody to talk to, but I think
even as partners or friends or whoever we may
be around, other individuals, is talking to people.
sometimes people just want you to open up and
say something like they're sitting there waiting
for it. I want you to help me. They'll sit. There's
so many signs that we ignore so many times that
it's just like, Oh yeah, he's just being funny
today. And that was the scream for help. You
know? Yeah. I think we also have to recognize
that like somebody will make a joke and then
it's kind of like, Oh, that was an awkward joke,
but whatever. That's that person. And that was
his, his or her scream for help right there.
And then something happens the next day or a
week after whatever it may be. And then we recognize
like, Oh shoot. I completely missed that one.
So I think we also have to be cognizant of the
fact that some people don't recognize it. Like
myself, I didn't recognize this stuff. I didn't
know what was going on. To me, I was strong,
healthy, good to go. And there were several times
I was crying out for help, and I didn't know
I was crying out for help. But somebody recognized
it. Fortunately, somebody recognized it. There
was a higher power up there also recognizing
it. I came across the right people, fortunately,
that I could have that conversation with and
feel safe having the conversation with. That's
another big thing. We don't want to talk to regular
people. I say regular as an individual that haven't
been involved in these types of scenarios or
open up or be vulnerable. We don't want to be
that. We don't. It's not safe. We're all about
being safe. So I think it's just understanding
that, being able to. be that person, even if
it's a total stranger. Like these days being
involved with the 343 Fund, actually being an
individual who's gone through this whole process.
I have talked to so many people, James, in this
past six months about my experience, just telling
my story. And they're like, I needed that. Like,
I really needed it. I'm talking about guys that
have done some things that I'm like, dude. I'm
just happy to be sitting here right now next
to you. And then they're giving a hug afterwards,
and it's just like, whoa, I didn't see that one.
They're like, you have no idea how much I needed
that. So it's just knowing that, recognizing
that aspect of things, and then sometimes just
sitting there, just shut up and listen. Some
people just want to talk. That's another big
thing, too. We have our egos. We want to tell
our stories. We want to tell our war stories
and everything we went through. But sometimes,
let somebody talk to you, man. Let it out. That
helps too. So that's a big part of what we were
talking about just now, I think, is recognizing
it and knowing that we are here to assist and
help each other throughout this process and everything
we do. One of the things that's also become very
clear is, again, you've got that young man or
woman. There's that void. They decide they want
to become the protector. They put on the armor.
slowly realize that they're falling into the
identity and the the kind of uh example i use
is the yin and the yang you know the uh you know
we go in with equal part of of both initially
and i would argue that is the case because i
don't think most well let me rephrase that most
people go into the first responder professions
out of kindness compassion and empathy They want
to be a protector. They want to make the world
better. That's not a selfish trait. So it is
very, very compassionate, but then we get in
and then, you know, fast forward a few years
of shift work and seeing horrible stuff. Now,
all of a sudden you're a cop, you're a firefighter.
So what I do is who I am. And you start to lose
the, I always get these, I've talked about this
for so long. I should remember it, but I think
it's the, the Yan. So you, you basically become
a white circle anyway. You lose that feminine
gentle side. And this is exactly what you're
talking about. Well, I'm not going to talk about
it. Rub some dirt in it. Don't be a pussy. You
know, McDonald's is hiring all this bullshit.
And we forget to show ourselves the same exact
compassion that we show the rest of the community
by putting on a uniform when everyone else is
sleeping safely in their beds. So then that's
even more jarring when you transition out. And
now, like you said, you're sitting there during
COVID. I'm an operator, you know, and the reality
is your identity is being stripped. You've lost
your tribe. You've lost your sense of purpose,
you know, and everything that you bought into
by discarding that compassionate side is now
being challenged. It's kind of like your five
AMEO journey, you know, your ego. And so when
we can actually acknowledge that we put that
soft part back in. that's when you can be vulnerable
and that's what opens the door to everyone else
because we look around a team room you look around
a fire station everyone else seems to be doing
just fine you're the one that's struggling you're
the one that's weak but that's they're all wearing
a mask too if you look across in the other climb
inside their brain you see the same thing but
by i've realized that by this vulnerability by
this courageous storytelling Opening a conversation
by saying, let me tell you about some of the
things that I had to work through, some of the
struggles I've had, some of the solutions I've
found. I haven't had a person yet that's had
anything other than that being received by people
saying, actually, I've been going through some
stuff myself. So that is courage. That is masculinity.
Not the Robocop, Stallone, Schwarzenegger bullshit
that we were raised on. but a man that absolutely
will run towards gunfire into a burning building
or a woman if needed. But then after being able
to sit down with that child and just talk to
them, you know, to stop them crying, you know
what I mean? That is who we actually are. And
it's the same with this mental health conversation.
If you cannot be vulnerable yourself, then you,
that means you're not courageous. It takes courage
to be vulnerable. I think that's the important
conversation. And it's scary. It's scary. Scary
as hell, man. That's the craziest thing about
it. We're not scared to run into a building that's
burning down or gunshots coming at us. We're
good. You know, but as soon as you want to open
that door, I'm good. Yeah. No, no, thank you.
There's no need to go in there. And honestly,
that was what my five MEO was. It was opening
that door and walking into that building. It
was the scariest thing I ever dealt with in my
life. You know, um, and then you hit the nail
on the head with that. It's just, we, my journey
gave it to me. We're gentle, you know, be gentle.
That's what it was. And then we also made a point
just now was talking to that kid. That kid is
that little kid inside of us that, you know,
got neglected for whatever reason that we forgot
about. We buried away because we got to be these
hard individuals. And, you know, we can't have
fun, you know, rah, rah, rah, and go get them.
You know, I think that's why as first responders,
we have such weird sense of humor. Certain text
message threads are going to get deleted. that's
why i think we're like that we we're fighting
it so much but it's finding its way out you know
but it is scary as hell to be vulnerable and
how open up and have those conversations and
all we want is somebody put that hand out and
be like come on it's okay like we're here you
know you're not the only one fighting over there
we're all doing the same thing um and it's again
then you get right back into that sense of tribe
and it's like okay this is comfortable here we're
good you know i'm sitting there going through
my journey with a bunch of soft guys guys have
done some wild things in this world where you
sit there with like uh marx capone or dj shipley
and like dude you guys like the epitome of bad
asses and you're telling me you were sitting
on the back of a truck about to eat your gun
i thought you had the life dude you know i thought
you had it made and clearly it was a different
mindset over there you know um and just understanding
like strong guys like that they have the same
thing going on you know the same exact thing
and these guys were trained And they have some
different types of training to deal with this
stuff. And even that can't hold it away. So in
our human nature, the way we're created as humans,
you have to let it out. You have to. We can fight
all we want. It's going to find its way out.
So might as well be in a great manner like this,
have these conversations, talk, let people know
what you're feeling, talk to your family once
it is, and then also integrate in the family,
getting them involved. is another huge part of
this whole process. Because we talk about ourselves
and getting ourselves better, but they're going
through it too. Everything you're doing, they're
going through it. So I think that's definitely
a huge part with the integration. And again,
I preface 343 and what we're doing there is involving
the family, explaining to them what's going on,
having integration processes with them. having
them understand what we do before, what's going
on during, because obviously everybody wants
to know what's going on out there in Mexico when
we go do what we do, and then coming back. Even
the family members going out there to do that.
I've had several stories where guys have brought
their wives out there, kids, fathers, mothers,
to get through the same process because, honestly,
the traumas that we have started somewhere, so
you might as well start digging where it started.
Fathers, mothers, things like that, you know?
And then having those conversations afterwards
and opening up, being vulnerable, explaining
things, feelings, so on and so forth. But yeah,
I mean, you're hitting a nail on the head with
a lot of this stuff. Just reminded me, I had
a seal on Zach Ferguson probably about almost
a year ago now. And he had addiction in his family
and he ended up going through, I think it was
either Ibogaine or Ayahuasca, I forget. Went
on this healing journey and then ended up getting
his father, who was drowning in addiction at
the time, and got him through the program, just
like you said, a family member. And now he's
been doing incredibly well. So seeing the state
of Texas starting to move forward towards legalizing,
I mean, it's incredible. And I think this is
what's so interesting with this conversation.
When I started the podcast, I think it was a
year or two into it, my mom, who'd moved to Portugal
years before. had said, did you know what they
were doing as far as addiction in Portugal? And
I was like, no, I have no idea. So very long
story short, they went from the American model,
you know, the war on drugs, arrest them all.
And they were like, look, this isn't working.
And they had a really bad addiction problem in
the country after one of the Portuguese colonies
was at war and a lot of their soldiers were over
there fighting. um and so they're a very democratic
nation like truly democratic like their vote
actually um and uh and so they put it to the
country like look we're thinking of it doing
it differently we're going to decriminalize addiction
now we're still going to chase smugglers we're
still going to chase the dealers but we're stop
we're going to not lock up addicts anymore. If
you have a user's amount, we're going to take
all that money from the war on drugs and we put
it into job creation, addiction counseling, mental
health counseling, housing. And in less than
10 years, they went from one of the highest addiction
rates in, I never remember if it's Europe or
the world, but to the lowest in less than 10
years. And so that was really the first thing
that kind of got me realizing that prohibition
was a complete... Because when I take a step
back and think about everything that I saw as
a paramedic and a firefighter, you know, the
sex work, the homelessness, the overdoses, the
gang membership, they all went back to drugs.
to illicit drugs, illegal drugs. So we drove
our addicts into the hands of the underworld.
Then you now extrapolate to the problems in Colombia
and Mexico and immigration issues are still all
tied in. So you came from this world of law enforcement.
You've had this powerful experience with the
very drugs that were demonized by our prohibition.
Talk to me about your philosophy on... reframing
what is illegal in that world. And then if you
were king for a day, what would the system look
like? Honestly, I kind of have to piggyback off
what you just said, kind of what they're doing
in Portugal in reference to the things, because
you hit the nail on the head again. I keep using
that phrase, but we're locking up these people.
They don't have any other solution, but they
come out and keep doing the same exact thing.
And then we're just feeding the cycle. It's just
a cycle we keep feeding or we take them off one
thing and put them on something even stronger.
And now they're hooked to that. And then the
cycles keep going and going and going. So, yeah,
we have to create some sort of. I don't know
how to put this without sounding too political.
I hate getting political about this, but there
has to be some sort of path for them. To work
through the process, and obviously everybody's
not going to work through it. It's not going
to be a success for everybody. We understand
that. But the housing aspect, I get it. But there's
got to be stipulations to all this. Because as
we saw in the Bay Area and California, they gave
them housing. They gave them money. But they
also gave them drugs and ways to do it clean.
And we saw what that did. That just melted into
a whole mess out there. There's got to be consequences,
too. If you fall out of the program, I'm good
with putting the program together. charging people
with felonies for this type of stuff. Because
a lot of it comes from mental illness and traumas
and things like that. And a lot of they can't
help. They really can't help. It is not people's
fault. 99 % of people in this world are good
people. We just do stupid things. Or we have
traumas or we have mental health issues. That's
what it is. There's 1 % that yes, we need to
deal with them in a certain way. But I agree
with you in reference to, especially with Ibogaine
being what it is and what it can do. I think
that'll be a pivotal moment in getting some of
these addictions and traumas, the mental health
scenarios, into somewhat of a check with implementing
these type of medications. Now, it's going to
get political in a second here. If big pharma
keeps getting involved, then, yeah, it's going
to be hard. It's going to be hard to do it because
what do we find with a lot of these SSRIs? I
mean, people are getting hooked. on these it's
impossible to get off this stuff and they don't
work the efficacy is like almost 50 50 if it's
even gonna work yeah and on top of that once
they're on it they're on it you know and then
they need something stronger and they need something
stronger and they need something strong while
they're doing that they're tearing up everything
inside their body so they need something else
to do that and before you know it they're gone
anyway you know because they can't deal with
anything else um so i think that's kind of in
short how it has to be implemented is that we've
got to get a program that is going to Give a
new strategy outside of Big Pharma, and I get
there are some things that we need when it comes
to certain situations, and we have to hold people
to the fire. A lot of these things, it's like,
oh, you didn't do it? No, too bad. But you've
got to hold people to the fire. You've got to
push them in a manner that they know they have
to get better. They have the outlet to do so.
Integration is huge. That is a big part of it.
is the buildup to it because we're throwing people
into these programs. They're like, Oh, okay.
Yeah, cool. This is it. Check, check, check.
We're done. Bye. See you later. All right. Anybody
follow up with this person though? Oh, they're
back on it. Amazing. They didn't know that was
going to happen, you know? And that's huge. And
that's foundations like the three, four, three
foundation. They are pivotal in creating this
structure for exactly what we're talking about.
Having integration, going through the process,
the checkups. The breath work, all the little
parts that have to be implemented, and for many
different scenarios. An alcoholic is not going
to be somebody that's hooked on SSRIs. TBI is
not going to be the same as an alcoholic. Somebody
has PTSD. It's all different understanding. There
are different cases with each scenario that's
playing out, whatever it may be. So I think that
all has to play into it. Age groups, that plays
into it. You're dealing with different people.
There's just so many factors. um that come with
it so i would have to implement all that i'm
cutting it short i'm not giving you the direct
answer if i was the king but i put people together
to get a system in place of integration it's
going to take a lot of work to get that done
holding people accountable for being there and
then um it's the the post aspect of it too i
think that's probably the hardest part is the
post it's staying with the steps that are going
to keep you on the right path um when you're
going through that whole process so i think that
would definitely help out well it's funny how
many times people say to me oh i don't want to
talk politics but and it made me realize how
uh how all the things that we should be talking
about have late been labeled politics so we don't
talk about them because the health of the nation
isn't politics that's that's just things that
need to be spoken about and if you uh if again
if you're going back to portugal's model for
a second First, you look at the irony of the
warfires that you're in that treatment with.
They had to go overseas to get the treatment
for what they did for America. So there's a there's
a jarring irony right there. But what they did
rather than even force. So in Portugal, if you
get detained, you know, and they find you've
got a user's amount, you go for an interview.
It's not, you know, an arrest interview. It's
actually like an educational conversation where
they talk to you about all the resources that
are available. Because if you think about it,
if you, as you said, arrested and now you've
got a criminal record, what's the chances then
of you being able to get employment and housing,
et cetera, et cetera? They've done the opposite.
They have incentives to employers to hire these
recovering addicts. So they create an environment
that most people then come out of the darkness
and say, I want to get help. Because like you
said, most people are good people that are just
struggling. There's these anomalies who they...
are never going to be able to save and it's heartbreaking
but you have to acknowledge that because in america
what we do is you point to those anomalies and
say see it doesn't work rather than looking at
all the good that we do we've all seen the people
that abuse you know government handouts for example
you know there's an escalator on the front driveway
and the kids are in rags inside but how many
people the food stamps put back on their feet
that are now working and you know back to normal
again. So I think this is what's interesting
is if you create an environment, it will make
a huge dent in this. It's the same with food.
If we had real food being served in schools and
we put PE programs in and we said, no kids, you
can't have your phones while you're at school.
So imagine the impact that would have on our
childhood obesity and mental health. So you can
change the environment without having to like
force with an iron fist. And then, yeah, of course,
if you've got people committing crimes because
of their addiction, then yeah, that still has
to be handled by the law enforcement side. Right.
I agree with you. I fully agree with you with
that. And you made a great point with the foods
and the screen time also. That's definitely a
big thing. But yeah, we've got to do something.
We've got to change. i think we're on the right
we're on the right path people are understanding
and seeing it and yeah we do have the conversation
about being political but i think at this point
in our lives people kind of have the blinders
off now and there's enough out there to see like
okay it's not just red or blue anymore like oh
that jenga tower is falling oh yeah it's it's
yes it's definitely coming down and i think people
are realizing like we've got to come together
on this indifferent or not like there used to
be a point in life where we could You could be
red, I could be blue, and we could disagree on
something and still go out to dinner, have a
great time, and have a common endgame on what
we want to happen here and all be good things.
So I think we're slowly but surely getting back
to that. And with this aspect being bought into
it, I think that with mental health and assisting
individuals, because mental health issues, TBI,
addiction, doesn't see red or blue. It really
doesn't. You're going in. You're going in. You
know, they don't care if you're a Democrat or
Republican or conservative or whatever it may
be these days. And take away from a lot of these
other things that happen, which I'm not going
to get into due to mental health. But it's a
big thing. It's a big thing. And I think we're
taking the right steps and we have the right
individuals that are leading the way with individuals
like Brian Hubbard and Governor Perry out in
Texas and Texas being, I mean. the forefront
for this thing. Arizona is jumping on board now.
And I think a lot more people are definitely
going to start coming out and talking about what
Ibogaine is, what the possibilities are out there
with it. And I even had a conversation with one
of my ex -co -workers the other day. And he was
a vet. And I had no idea. He went and he had
gotten some psychedelic treatment done. And when
we talked about this and he told me this, I was
like, when were you going to say something about
this stuff? And that's the other thing. People
out there, I'm like, I had no idea that you knew
about this. And completely on board. It was like,
whatever we need to do to get you out here to
start having a conversation with some of the
right people, I'm on board. So it's just like
once we open up this conversation, this door,
which it's opening up here in the U .S. and it's
getting domestic because obviously we can't do
this stuff in the United States yet. I think
a lot more people are going to buy into it than
some people think. Again, I had that thought
process in my head. Like, Ibogaine's like, not
become this tree hugger, like kumbaya. I was
scared that was going to happen to me. I was
scared that I was going to go from the individual
I am, I was going to lose all my skill sets,
and I was just going to become like, oh, peace,
love, dude, like Woodstock, you know? And that's
not the case, people, when it comes to it. But,
yeah, it's... It is time for us to put this out
there, have these conversations, know that it
is not frowned upon anymore. Everybody needs
help in this. Everybody's suffering from something.
We may be smiling on the outside a lot of times,
but there's some things going on in everybody.
And when it comes to the first responders, and
that gets firefighters, police, paramedics, everybody.
We've worked together. You know this. Like we're
all dealing with the same things. You might not
go out and shoot somebody, but guess what? You
got to go pick them up for me after they're done.
And then I might not have to go pick them up,
but then you got to hand them off to the paramedics
who's got to plug different holes. And anybody
that's never done that before in people, it's
like it's a whole different experience in life
when you're doing stuff like that, you know?
So I think we just all have to come together
when it comes to this. And everybody could do
their part in this. It's not just having to experience
Ibogaine. There are other factors that play into
this. With a foundation like the Casey Scoot
and the 343 Foundation, there's assistance needed
with this type of stuff. We've got some events
coming up that we're raising some money for these
first responders because everybody can't afford
this. I mean, you know, some first responder
salaries aren't the greatest salaries. We do
some of the greatest work, and they're definitely
handed some of the most insane hats to wear throughout
their career, and don't get paid for it. They
need assistance financially through some of this
stuff. So with our foundation, we're doing a
couple of fundraisers. One's going to be in Chicago.
We're teaming up with vets. It's going to be
October 17th in Chicago at the Trump Plaza. We're
doing a pretty big thing there. Brian Hubbard's
going to be out there to speak. Former Navy SEAL
Rob O 'Neill will be out there. And we're going
to have a couple other people doing some stuff.
We're going to have some silent auctions. And
we need some of these guys and girls that have
the funds to assist and that are willing to uh
donate to the funds it's a 503 501 3c so it's
a tax write -off for everybody listening to this
um and we need your help honestly you know that's
a big part of this is that we need the help with
these foundations to assist these guys and girls
that i mean every day like we said it's a selfless
act majority of the time that we're doing um
to go out there and make sure that everybody
can walk across the street not worry about the
bag get a snatch out of their hand or When they're
in a burning building, know that you're coming
in and somebody's going to come in and save them.
So we are definitely in a position for a teamwork
position that it's not just the guys and girls
with the badges. There are people out there that
are also assisting and we're holding hands together
on this one. So that is a big, intricate part
to this whole thing as we come together more
and more and put Ibogaine knowledge on the table
and just. inform people more of what's going
on one more area before we go to some closing
questions my wife was talking about the shooting
in new york the other day the active shooter
they had um and uh she said yeah he he took his
own life shot himself in the chest and i knew
immediately you know what that meant and then
you know kind of look into it a little bit more
i knew it was the nfl headquarters i'm like okay
there has to be a cte element to this and sure
enough Does it make it right for all those innocent
people that he killed? Of course not. But you
look at the Aaron Hernandez story, you look at
Junior Seau, you look at Chad Wilkinson. I mean,
some of the SEALs that we've lost, it's the same
thing because they're aware of the damage that's
going on in their head. And I'm hearing really
encouraging things about psilocybin and TBI,
Ibogaine and TBI. So with you having a background
as a football player yourself, can you just talk
to me about that angle for a second, the potential
of healing brain injury when it comes to these
treatments? I think it's amazing. It's an absolute
amazing aspect of it. I hope the NFL and college
teams, high school teams, and I mean, all pro
sports are actually listening to this because
I've sat down with a couple people and pro hockey
players, football players that have gone through
this and concussions. Non -stop, can't get rid
of headaches, can't sleep. And I've sat there
and told them, they were sitting there like,
there's only one way to stop this pain. You know,
it's not even something that they have to get
rid of. They just want the pain to stop, you
know. This is something that needs to be looked
at. The studies have been done out there through
Stanford studies. They've shown what it can do
and help out with when it comes to these things.
There are several NFL players that have done
this and have given the thumbs up on it. It's
known fact. Brett Favre was down there for other
reasons. But, you know, there are other things.
And I think that it is huge in the pro sports
world. Take care of these guys and girls. You
know, I know it's not the same thing, but they're
putting themselves on the line here for our entertainment
when it comes to things. And they need help.
They need help. They're also in the same position.
A lot of times they don't know or understand.
What they could go out for and what hands to
shake, what people to talk to. And there was
a scenario where I knew one of my friends played
for the Cowboys. And we were talking about it
one time. Marion Barber. Guy was an absolute
animal when he played. And there was decline.
Major decline. When he played, he played hard.
But it added up. And there were things that happened.
And I'm not saying what his diagnosis was. it's
pretty clear that it was a couple of headshots
that were taken here that probably had something
to do with the mental decline of what was going
on there. But I think this is definitely something
that should be looked at to assist these guys
and girls. Because it's not only going to help
them out, it's going to help their families out.
And you can go right back to it. It kind of circles
around in the same aspect of things. Longevity
of life. Who wants to watch people take themselves
out and wants to go to funerals for these things?
We want to look at these guys and girls as heroes
and role models for our kids. Let's give them
help that they need. You know, when they reach
out, you pay millions upon millions of dollars.
What does that mean? They have no sort of lifestyle
to live and enjoy things like that. Yeah, exactly.
yeah that i saw there was a documentary recently
aaron rogers and it detailed his whole psychedelic
experience which is amazing and then even you
look at um i'm blanking on his name now there
was that wwf wrestler who ended up killing his
family and then taking his own life as well oh
yes yes i forgot his name i know you're talking
about yeah but even aaron rogers got frowned
upon you saw that when he started talking about
it he was open about it i like i like aaron rogers
for the fact that he's just so open about it
you know that's an intelligent guy extremely
intelligent guy you know and the fact that he's
so open about what he had to deal with with his
mental health other guys like ricky williams
he hasn't done that that i know if i lost her
i became another guy he knew what he was going
through he was intelligent enough to understand
like enough's enough like i'm not good up top
doing this yeah everybody a lot of people even
i thought at one point like why is this guy backing
out like you are the epitome of what i want to
be and why are you backing out and then you get
to a point you're like okay i get it like kudos
to you for understanding and knowing that you
had to step out and work on yourself you know
you turned down how many millions of dollars
for this people oh yeah i would have taken a
million dollars for that i don't know about that
buddy yeah these armchair warriors saying williams
is a first really yeah exactly and it's like
one day sit in that chair by yourself and go
through those thoughts that were probably going
through his head i guarantee you you would turn
down a couple million dollars to have some peace
of mind exactly with that um But yeah, I think
that it's definitely, it's something that we
talked about in the beginning. I think everybody
should look into potential of doing something
similar. Not Ibogaine, there are other outs,
but it's something that the world needs to see.
And it is time. It is definitely time for it.
People need to stop suffering. I've got family
members. I'm sure everybody here has somebody
that is going through something, alcoholism,
whatever it may be, and they're begging for help.
And they don't know how to say help. And we sit
there. What do we do? Family barbecues. We laugh
about it. Oh, cool. So -and -so is drunk again.
Ha, ha, ha. It's like there's more going on there.
Now that we see it, it's like, okay, maybe you
do need that talk. So I went off on a little
tangent there. No, no, it's good. I mean, it
kind of underlines what I say a lot. Think about
a preschool, a bunch of kids. How many of them
are hoping to be an alcoholic one day, hoping
to be living under a bridge, hoping to be part
of a gang? hoping to be a sex worker like none
of them you know what i mean it's what life does
to you so when you really reverse engineer the
kind of blank canvas that we were when we were
little you know it shows well if it's the environment
well then what can we do to fix the environment
because we can't you know we didn't used to have
all these stresses and the violence and all that
kind of stuff. If you look at history as a whole,
not talking about some of the horrible chapters
that happened, but overall people would be in
a village, they'd forage, they'd hunt, they'd
eat together, they'd talk together and not be
worried about school shootings and drug violence
and all these other things. So we can definitely
reverse engineer a lot of this stuff. Whether
it's Ibogaine or Ayahuasca or MDMA or ketamine,
there's all these other things now that aren't
pills and talk therapy that will hopefully all
be accessible to all the community so we can
start this healing revolution. Yeah, I agree
with you. I fully agree with you. And it's just,
again, it's supporting what's going on and how
this is happening. Also, it's opening people's
minds up to this. we all at some point here had
closed minds off to certain things were going
on i'll understand agree i was one of those about
a year and a half ago i was that guy talked to
me about this a year and a half ago like yeah
james you're crazy great talk this is not happening
yeah um so yeah this is definitely something
big on the on the forefront here and with everybody
starting to support it these grants coming out
of all these states The research is being done.
Like I said, the fundraisers that we have going
on, teaming up with vets and other foundations,
psychedelic foundations that are going on out
there. Brian Hubbard, Perry. I mean, there's
just so many people on the forefront here. And
I'm just a little little dot on this whole thing.
It was fortunate enough to meet Angela and the
team over three, four, three and go to NBO and
meet some other guys and girls that. I think
it's my purpose. And like I was saying before,
I was looking for the purpose and what that was.
I think I found what that purpose is and what
I was put there for. Like we all go through a
journey and we wonder why, why we went through
that journey. What was the purpose of this? Why
did I have to deal with that? So on and so forth.
And honestly, without that, I'm not sitting here.
I can tell you that much. And I wasn't a person
that ever had any sort of addictions either.
So I only went through Ibogaine once. Some people
do it multiple times. You know, I'm not that
person either, but I could speak to. individuals
on that side of things. You know, it's not just
for one type of person. So I would say, talk
to people out there, spread the word. If you
have questions about this process, what Ibogaine
is, ask, you can Google it, look it up, look
up this history of it. There's so many resources
for people that want to know more about it and
that potentially want to go down and take the
journey and see what it could do for them. And
I will say it has been all positive. I haven't
heard one negative thing about it. And we, I
mean, I'll run through some stats of what we
did. I actually wrote this down because I wanted
to specifically talk about this. And I wasn't
gonna remember all these numbers, but at 343,
we've sent, and this number is gonna be a little
bit skewed because every day we're sending more
people. We sent 145 first responders through
treatment, which is amazing. Thus far. And I
will say this. Angela has been fronting her own
money to do this. That's why I say Angela's so
big on what she's doing. This has been her money.
She's been fronting to assist people with this.
Eighty five percent males, 50 percent female.
But again, that's when a male driven job for
us here. Forty one percent have been firefighters,
37 percent law enforcement, 50 percent EMTs and
six percent spouses. And that's what I was talking
about before. It's something that it's for all
the first responders and people have to understand
the spouses also. That is huge. And we're going
to be starting a friends and family program here
soon, I think. So that's going to be something
that we're going to be having a conversation
with. 56 % of these individuals are active, which
is huge. People think you have to be retired
just to go through this. Like, no, what are we
waiting for? Why wait for this thing to build
up where it's overflowing? Let's take care of
these things now. 44 % have been retired or medically
retired or have resigned. 68 % have been in the
line of duty, injuries. And then, like I was
explaining before, different aspects of it. 60
% have had some sort of substance abuse. 40 %
are on SSRIs. 66 % have said to have some sort
of sleep disturbance. So there are so many different
factors that play into it. There are signs that
will play into this. And guys and girls, I mean,
we're here to help everybody out when it comes
to things. Can we help everybody? No. Let's just
be realistic with this. But we are here to do
as much as we can. And the more assistance that
we have throughout this process with the communities
that can help out in any way they can, in reference,
like I said, either becoming coaches, spreading
the word, becoming integration coaches. I know
that's something we're looking for all the time,
especially with the number of individuals that
are starting to come through here now. Give people
more information and they become more aware of
Ibogaine and what it can do and what it is. We're
going to need more help when it comes to that.
So that's something if you guys are interested,
reach out to us at 343 with what we're doing
here. And then also, like I said, it's a 5013C
for all the bigwigs out there or anybody, anybody
wants to donate to the cause. Reach out to us
and you can do things. You have a one -time donation,
a reoccurring monthly and annual donation. Or,
I mean, if you want to host some sort of fundraising
event, that's also an option you have. And if
you are interested in doing that, you can go
to 343fund .org. And there's a little button.
Click on it, and you can do it that way. Or reach
out to me or myself or Angela or anybody else
in the 343 Fund to help out and get that done.
So we're definitely looking forward to doing
a whole lot more. We've got a lot of good things
planned here. I'm excited about it, man. I'm
excited. I feel like I finally found my purpose
in this thing without making it about me again,
but it's an exciting thing. It's definitely an
exciting thing. Well, I think this is what I
found with this. I just, you know, found myself
accidentally leaving the fire service and really
it was at a crossroads and it was a force multiplier
thing. If you're using the Green Beret term,
you know, you were on the streets for X amount
of years. I was on the streets for X amount of
years. And there's another. you know, great police
officer, firefighter in our, you know, in our
spot doing the same thing now. So for us with
that journey that we've had with that experience,
that gives you the buy -in that gives you the
lived experience. It's like, well now how can
we help the people that are out there helping
everyone? So I think it's a beautiful transition.
Oh, it is. It definitely is. And you, you said
something there too was great is that with the
fact that we have the experience, we could talk
the talk, we could speak the lingo and it makes
it so much easier, you know, with people and
to be relatable. to be 100 % relatable. Because
when you tell your story, I can say, I understand.
I don't have to say I disempathize. I understand
what you're dealing with. And that's huge. That
is huge when it comes to this. So, I mean, you're
doing God's work, James. You definitely are.
I definitely appreciate you having me on here.
And the fact that we crossed paths through Angela
and everything like that. Like I said, it's crazy
how I've come from a cop that didn't want to
be seen, didn't want to be talked about, to sitting
here doing stuff like this. Well, a couple of
quick closing questions before I let you go.
The first one I love to ask, is there a book
or are there books that you love to recommend?
It can be related to our discussion today or
completely unrelated. Honestly, I'm in the process
of finishing this thing up, but Operator Syndrome
was a book that I was told to read. And at first
I was like, yeah, whatever. And then I got around
several guys and everybody said the same thing.
You need to read this book. That's Chris Free.
Yes. So yes, Operator Syndrome, I would say.
There's definitely one that I would say you should
read, especially in line of work of if you're
on a team for SWAT or if you're in the military.
I've had multiple guys on teams that said this
is the book for everybody that has that syndrome
aspect of things. So I think that's the one.
Brilliant. Yeah, I have him on with J .D. Miller,
who they've developed another one called Firefighter
Syndrome. So it's kind of another thing that's
in the book, but it's another kind of. um in
a way of looking at it from ours because obviously
we're not having the tbis the cts as much as
you know law enforcement um military etc um what
about documentaries and films that you love they
just came out with the waves and war documentary
if somebody wants to see what ibogaine and ambio
experience and i would say get your hands on
that i know it just came overseas a couple months
ago They released it. They were doing a couple
of releases. I think they just did one in Virginia
a couple of weeks ago. Waves and Wars, a good
one, especially for knowing what this platform
that we're speaking on is and some guys that
have gone through that process. So I think that's
definitely a great one when it comes to this.
Brilliant. All right, the next question. Is there
a person that you recommend to come on this podcast
as a guest to speak to the first responders,
military, and associated professionals of the
world? I've got a couple of people. So I've been
blessed, like I said, to be around some superheroes
in my mindset that have gone through the process.
Your DJ Shipley, Cole Falkner, Cody Alford, Tony
Cowden. I'm going to give you four and then I'll
stop there. Those guys, I've had the privilege
of sitting down and talking to in depth about
some things. And those are several individuals
who've gone through. and be on the Ibogaine treatment
and have some real -time experience with traumas
and how to get around things and seeing the pros
and cons and everything that they've done. And
those are some good guys to talk to. One woman
that I would say talk to in the law enforcement
world, she hasn't done Ibogaine, but there's
a woman by the name of Ann Carvalhas. She was
a police officer. in Texas. I forgot the police
department in Texas. I'll link you up with her.
But she is a badass. When you see her story,
I'll send you some stuff on her. And I'm going
to be talking to her about some stuff and potentially
going out there to this woman. She's gone through
some stuff. And she's an ex -Marine also. So
she's a cop and a Marine. So I'd give you that.
You'll see the puppies over there talking. Yeah,
yeah. In the background. Brilliant. All right.
Well then the last question for you, make sure
everyone knows where to find you. What do you
do to decompress these days? Man, decompress
gym, the gym rat. I love the gym. I'm actually
funny. You both brought this up. I'm starting
jujitsu again today. I'm going to be hurt. Oh
man. I've done it so long. So I stay physical.
Um, and then my kids, my kids do it for me. Like
a lot of people say, oh, their kids are a stressor
to them, but my kids do it for me. When I have
my kids, it's just, it's such a big decompression
for me. Because now with this mindset and the
way that I kind of changed the views I have with
certain things, I just have more fun with them,
you know? So I use my kids to do a lot of kids
things too. So I can say I'm taking them to the
zoo because they're going to the zoo, but I really
want to go to the zoo. So yeah, I spend time
with my family. That's kind of my decompression,
honestly, if I'm not. at the gym or just kind
of hanging around with my dogs that's it i'm
easy when it comes to life man very easy very
cool you literally listed like all of my decompressors
there too and the dog included there you go um
all right well then let's just underline one
more time where can people find the 343 fund
and if they want to follow you reach out to you
where are the best places for you specifically
all right so for me now that they've actually
uh given me the position of executive director
over here at 343 fund don't know what they were
thinking when i did that but uh You can find
us over at 343 .org. For donations, head over
to 343 .org. As soon as the webpage pops up,
you'll see a donation button. We'll appreciate
anything and everything that you guys can send
our way. Me personally, if you want to talk to
me, I'm on Instagram. You can reach out. It's
underscore TAC Daddy. So underscore T -A -C -D
-A -D -Y. That is me. But for 343, it's 343 .org.
Get out there. Help out a first responder, a
family member, anything you guys could give.
We are more than happy to receive. And we'll
have some more information on those events that
we have coming up in October also and anything
future -wise that we have coming up. Any questions
you have, reach out to me at any point in time.
And if someone's looking to actually be a recipient
of the program, it's the same site? Same site,
correct. Yep, same site. Perfect. That's correct.
Well, I want to thank you so much. I mean, like
I said, hearing this kind of conversation from
a law enforcement perspective is always even
more powerful. But, you know, having... the courage
to be vulnerable, having the courage to tell
your story. I know that the ripple effect is
going to be amazing. And we're slowly breaking
down the stigma around this conversation, which
is going to save lives. It's just that simple.
So I want to thank you so, so much for being
so generous with your time and coming on the
Behind the Shield podcast today. James, I want
to thank you the same. I really appreciate it.
And I'm going to extend a handout from the 343
Foundation and everybody that's running out that
way behind the scenes. You're doing great work,
man. Doing God's work out there. God bless you
too.