WEBVTT

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This episode is brought to you by Thorne, the

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industry leader in nutritional solutions. Now,

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Thorne is actually trusted by eight US national

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teams and championship teams in the NFL, NBA,

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and Major League, as well as recently becoming

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the official sports performance nutrition partner

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of the UFC. So when it comes to supplements,

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the tactical athlete space and the athletic space

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need two things. We need efficacy, meaning the...

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Products do what they say they're going to do

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on the label. And then we need to trust the fact

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that we are not going to fail either athletic

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drug tests or work -related drug tests. Now,

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Thorne has actually been around since the 1980s,

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where they were used by physicians and hospitals

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for nutritional supplements for the patients.

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They were so successful that athletic teams and

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even special operations teams reached out to

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them and they started supplying them as well.

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Very recently, they actually opened their doors

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to the general public. Now, what sets Thorne

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apart is they manufacture their own products

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in a state -of -the -art NSF certified facility

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in South Carolina. They use only the purest possible

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ingredients formulated with no stearates or arbitrary

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fillers in the cleanest manufacturing process.

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Most of you listening come from profession where

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it can take its toll physically and mentally.

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And many of us are not able to bolster our nutrition

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purely with the food that we eat. And that's

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where supplementation comes in. So if you're

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ready to maximize your health and performance,

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visit thorne .com, T -H -O -R -N -E .com. Take

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you, the audience, if you use the code BTS10,

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even more about Thorne, go to episode 323 of

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Behind the Shield podcast. And you will hear

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my interview with Wes Barnett and Joel Totoro

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from Thorne. This episode is sponsored by BeaverFit.

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And as always, this is another company that I've

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not only been aware of for several years, but

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I also completely trust and I know is a great

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fit for this audience. Having not only been a

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firefighter in my career, but also a strength

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and conditioning coach, I've seen the challenges

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that we have. getting the tactical athlete fit

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when it comes to budgets, when it comes to space.

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And BeaverFit has solutions for so many of our

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challenges. When it comes to space, they have

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the gym box, for example, which is literally

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the size of a footlocker that when you open it

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up and build it becomes a squat rack, a pull

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-up bar, a box, and even a wall ball target.

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So you can get a full workout for a crew purely

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on that one box. Expanding out, they have storage

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containers that... become entire gyms. You store

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everything in the inside and you can then deploy

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racks and pull -up bars on the outside. They

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have gyms on trailers you can take from station

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to station. They have tactical boxes with breaching

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props and collapse props. And then on the flip

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side, the durability is another issue that we

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see. So often departments buy the low bid, the

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cheapest they can find. And ultimately that hard

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-earned wellness budget gets wasted in equipment

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that rusts and falls apart. Beaver Fits Gear

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is designed to be used in the most extreme environments,

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whether it's the deserts of the Middle East or

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simply on the deck of a naval ship. So they are

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designed to not only be outside, but to be beaten

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up by some of the most elite operators on the

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planet. Now they are offering you, the audience

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of the Behind the Shield podcast, 10 % off your

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If you want to hear more about this company,

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and I'm sure you do, listen to episode 477 with

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the original founder, Tom Beaver, from the UK,

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or the founders of BeaverFit USA, Alex Rudehouse

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and Mike Taylor, on episode 457. This episode

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is sponsored by 5 .11, a company that I've used

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for well over a decade and continue to use to

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this day. And 5 .11 is offering you guys, the

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audience of the Behind the Shield podcast, a

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discount on every purchase you make with them.

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Before we get to that code, I want to highlight

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a couple of products that, again, I personally

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use today. One of the most impressive products

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they just released is their Rush Backpack 2 .0.

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Now, for many of you, whether you're going to

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the fire station, the police station, whether

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you're traveling with your family, whether you're

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taking training courses, we have to fly, we have

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to drive, we have to take trains. And I have

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to say, I own multiple backpacks, many of 5 .11's

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different ones, but as far as a day pack, this

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one was the most impressive. There are so many

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different compartments. The way it sits on your

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back is incredibly comfortable. If you are a

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concealed carry person, there's also a spot for

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a weapon. So they've thought of multiple, multiple

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things that a man or woman would have to do on

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a daily basis. That is in addition to all of

00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:09.100
the products that I talk about a lot. Their uniforms

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fit for men or fit for women in the first responder

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professions. The footwear that they offer, whether

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it's the Norris sneaker or the Atlas system that

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is designed for foot health and therefore knees

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and back and hips and shoulders and neck. As

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a civilian, I live in a lot of their clothes

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as well. Their jeans stretch. You can actually

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squat down in them. We live in Florida here,

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so I wear a lot of their shorts, which again,

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very, very lightweight material. You can get

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it wet and it will dry almost immediately. And

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then moving to the fitness and tactical space,

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I used to have just a regular weight vest. Recently,

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I switched to a 511 vest and actually bought

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ballistic plates as well. My thinking was simply,

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if I'm going to have a vest, why not have one

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that protects me as well? And that tack vest

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is trusted by law enforcement all around the

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country. So I mentioned they were going to offer

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you a discount code. So if you go to 511tactical

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.com and enter the code SHIELD15, S -H -I -E

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-L -D -1 -5, you will get 15 % off, not just

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that one purchase, but every time you visit their

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store. And if you want to learn more about 5

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.11, their mission, their products, then listen

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to episode 338 of the Behind the Shield podcast

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with the CEO and founder, Francisco Morales.

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Welcome to episode 482 of Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this

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week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the

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show Debbie Lee. Now Debbie is not only the mother

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of Mark Lee, who was the very first Navy SEAL

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killed in Iraq in Ramadi, but she herself has

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an incredibly powerful story and is so courageous

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in telling these stories. She endured a very

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unusual childhood, domestic abuse to the point

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of almost being killed by her previous husband,

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losing another husband to suicide, and then obviously

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losing Mark in combat. But she was able to work

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through her grief and start an incredible foundation

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called America's Mighty Warriors. Before we get

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to that conversation, as I say every single week,

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please just take a moment, go to whichever app

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you listen to this on, subscribe to the show,

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leave feedback, and most importantly, leave a

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rating. Every five -star rating truly does elevate

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this podcast, making it easier for others to

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find. And this is a free library of almost 500

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episodes now. So all I ask is that you pay it

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forward, that you share these incredible men

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and women's stories so I can get them to everyone

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else who needs to hear them. So with that being

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said, I introduce to you, Debbie Lee. Enjoy.

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Well, Debbie, I want to start by saying firstly

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that it was an absolute honor to meet you at

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the Echelon Front event, but also I want to thank

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you for taking the time to come on the Behind

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the Shield podcast today. You bet. I'm excited

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to be here today and get to speak with you and

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looking forward to it. Absolutely. So where on

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planet Earth are we finding you today? I am in

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Surprise, Arizona. And yes, that's really the

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name of the town. I don't think I've ever heard

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of that town before. Yeah, and I don't know.

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It's a suburb of Phoenix, so I don't know if

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a long time ago, you know, the... Our ancestors

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were going across the country and they found

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some water here and they went, surprise, or why

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it's named that. But it's a very unique name.

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I've been a widow for 27 years and was on a dating

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website a long time ago. But one of the guys

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never communicated with him. He just wrote, oh,

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you're one of those women that you won't even

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tell somebody where you live. You put you live

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in Surprise, Arizona. I'm like, click, delete.

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Absolutely. post -divorce thrown into that internet.

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Well, actually my wife now I found from match

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.com. So I have to say, you know, there are some

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good people out there, but yeah, that was definitely

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an interesting experience. I'm sure you saw the

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highs and the lows in that field. Yes. Yes, very

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much so. Yeah. People can make themselves out

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to be something pretty cool. I don't know how

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they don't realize that. if it works into something,

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you're eventually going to meet them and you're

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going to see the reality of it. But I had one

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guy on there that put, he was six foot one. I'm,

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I'm five 10. So I'm pretty tall. And we walked

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in the restaurant. He was about five foot six.

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And I was like, so did he not think I wouldn't

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notice? But he was sitting down. I thought it

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was kind of odd when I first walked in because

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he was sitting down and didn't get up when I

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came to the booth. And so I didn't didn't realize

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it till, you know, we were leaving and I was

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like, OK, yeah, but it's interesting. But great

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for you that you were able to find someone. That's

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awesome. Yes. Yeah, that's the thing. So. Don't

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give up. All right. So then, as you know, I love

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to start chronologically at the very beginning.

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You have a very interesting early life. So I

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would love to spend some time kind of exploring

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that. So tell me where you were born and then

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tell me about your family dynamic, what your

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parents did and how many siblings you had. OK,

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well, I was born in Greeley, Colorado. My very

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unique, wow, just let's throw that in asking

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about the siblings. I'm either an only child

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or come from a family of 13. So my mom got pregnant

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with me. She was 17 years old. And, you know,

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that things were a lot different back then. And

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they were trying to, that I wouldn't be, obviously

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I was conceived out of wedlock, but, you know,

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they want to try to make everything look normal.

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So my grandmother. arranged for my mom to marry

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my grandmother's boyfriend. So my mom was 17.

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He was 35. Now, my mom and I are totally different

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personalities. If my mom would have come to me

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and told me that, I've been like, oh, heck no,

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I'm going to raise this baby by myself. I'll

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be fine. Thank you very much. I'm marrying that

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old fart. But my mom was very compliant. I'm

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sure she was very scared at that point to find

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out that she was pregnant and had no idea how

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she was going to raise this. this child. So my

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mom and the man that I thought was my dad who

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raised me, you know, most of my life and who

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I do consider my father. You know, he was a police

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officer, was a sergeant in the police department.

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And they then had my brother. Well, actually,

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a year later, they got pregnant with twins. And

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one died. They both died shortly after childbirth.

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One lived. about 24 hours, one lived 48 hours.

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And then a year later, they got pregnant with

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my brother Vance, who I grew up with, who I did

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not know, you know, wasn't a full brother, didn't

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know anything different. And then my mom went

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through a divorce and remarried again. They had

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a little boy and then she got divorced and married

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again. And at 55, they tried to have children

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as well. She married a bachelor who'd never been

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married. And thank goodness they didn't. Because

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I have a brother who's just a few years older

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than my oldest son. I could have had a brother

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a few years older than my grandchildren. That

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is not normal. So I had a strange upbringing.

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I did finally meet my biological father when

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I was 16. My mom and I were fighting. And she

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said, you don't even know who your father is.

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And I was like. Do you? Because she had been

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pretty promiscuous in between some marriages.

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We shared a bedroom and, you know, there were

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things that happened in there when I was supposedly

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sleeping that, you know. So it left it left scars

00:12:42.289 --> 00:12:45.049
on me, you know, and so I was, you know, very

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angry with my mother, very upset with her as

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a 16 year old. You know, we all kind of go through

00:12:51.049 --> 00:12:53.750
that testing the waters rebellious age, you know,

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and I maybe tested the waters a little more than

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than most people. But then did meet my biological

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dad at 16, kind of put the pieces of the puzzle

00:13:04.870 --> 00:13:07.029
together, because when I was 11, I was already

00:13:07.029 --> 00:13:10.159
five foot nine. My mom was five foot six. My

00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:12.360
dad was five foot five. There wasn't really anybody

00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:14.399
very tall in my family. So I was always like,

00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:17.559
what am I, a freak? You know, how did I? And

00:13:17.559 --> 00:13:19.759
I met my dad and he was six foot four. So then

00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:22.440
I was like, oh, OK, well, this makes sense now.

00:13:23.919 --> 00:13:29.259
But and he had married after my mom and him,

00:13:29.320 --> 00:13:32.620
you know, had been together and he had three

00:13:32.620 --> 00:13:35.320
children. from that first marriage, then he married

00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:37.820
again, she had a son, they had a son, and then

00:13:37.820 --> 00:13:39.679
he married again, and she had four boys. So it's,

00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:42.059
you know, very much dysfunctional family, we

00:13:42.059 --> 00:13:45.700
probably could have written a book on dysfunctional

00:13:45.700 --> 00:13:49.080
family. But it, you know, it's those things now,

00:13:49.179 --> 00:13:51.500
as I look back, it didn't make any sense to me,

00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:55.919
I was not happy with where my life was, you know,

00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:58.200
growing up. And as a teenager, and like I said,

00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:02.779
I did, you know, rebel. But very much now I see

00:14:02.779 --> 00:14:05.940
those are those trials and tragedies in my life

00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:08.399
that I went through that developed that character.

00:14:09.100 --> 00:14:11.659
And I don't know if it was something just kind

00:14:11.659 --> 00:14:15.320
of ingrained in me. You know, I am a strong -willed

00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:17.320
personality. And I think that's what gave me

00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:19.740
the ability to say, I'm not going to let these

00:14:19.740 --> 00:14:22.159
things take me down. You know, I'm going to persevere.

00:14:22.179 --> 00:14:26.269
I am going to, you know, rise above this. child

00:14:26.269 --> 00:14:28.070
and a teenager I don't think you have the ability

00:14:28.070 --> 00:14:29.830
to do that but part of that personality that

00:14:29.830 --> 00:14:32.629
was in me and then as I grew as an adult then

00:14:32.629 --> 00:14:35.110
obviously those choices you know that I made

00:14:35.110 --> 00:14:37.129
to say I'm not quitting I'm not quitting I'm

00:14:37.129 --> 00:14:39.830
not quitting I'm not giving up but those are

00:14:39.830 --> 00:14:42.830
those things that developed that character and

00:14:42.830 --> 00:14:46.070
that personality you know in the early stages

00:14:46.070 --> 00:14:49.960
of my life you know now with as you mentioned

00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:52.700
that that rather unusual marriage and you see

00:14:52.700 --> 00:14:54.639
that in in other cultures you know in india and

00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:56.200
places like that where you have these arranged

00:14:56.200 --> 00:15:00.299
marriage there may be a a large age gap um were

00:15:00.299 --> 00:15:02.980
they able to find love together was it always

00:15:02.980 --> 00:15:08.480
tumultuous um you know obviously i i was a young

00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:12.440
child they divorced when i was about 11. i felt

00:15:12.440 --> 00:15:16.539
like that that they had found you know love but

00:15:17.019 --> 00:15:20.080
Looking back, I think it was very much he was

00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:23.139
kind of that father figure in her life. She had

00:15:23.139 --> 00:15:25.779
also come up from a dysfunctional family. He

00:15:25.779 --> 00:15:28.960
very much was that protector, you know, and provider.

00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:33.519
She wanted to go back to college and get her

00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:36.139
degree, and she did. You know, he worked so she

00:15:36.139 --> 00:15:37.840
could do that, provided that way so she could

00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:41.340
go back and get her degree in education. I know

00:15:41.340 --> 00:15:43.919
that, you know, I was his little girl. He cherished

00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:48.860
me and loved me. you know, to pieces. But I think

00:15:48.860 --> 00:15:51.600
it was very much more that I'm going to be your

00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:53.740
provider. I'm going to be your protector. The

00:15:53.740 --> 00:15:57.080
arrangement originally was they would just get

00:15:57.080 --> 00:15:59.580
married. I would be born and then they would

00:15:59.580 --> 00:16:02.740
annul the marriage. So obviously, you know, they

00:16:02.740 --> 00:16:05.580
chose not to do that for, you know, whatever

00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:08.519
reason at that point. So there must have been

00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:12.629
something that was there. But I don't know that

00:16:12.629 --> 00:16:15.129
it was the normal, you know, young love. You

00:16:15.129 --> 00:16:20.769
fall in love with each other, you know. But definitely

00:16:20.769 --> 00:16:25.250
he provided a lot for my mom to be able to fulfill

00:16:25.250 --> 00:16:27.610
some of those dreams that she had in her life.

00:16:28.370 --> 00:16:32.529
You know, he eventually had some problems that,

00:16:32.570 --> 00:16:34.769
you know, and he ended up in the mental hospital.

00:16:35.029 --> 00:16:37.610
And that was when, you know, the marriage then,

00:16:37.690 --> 00:16:39.690
you know, started to fall. I'm sure it fell apart.

00:16:40.059 --> 00:16:42.840
Before that point, you know, as a child, I didn't

00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:46.179
notice, didn't see those things. But yeah, unfortunately,

00:16:46.500 --> 00:16:50.259
had some mental health, you know, problems. Yeah.

00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:53.039
And he said he was a police officer. Yes, he

00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:54.980
was a police officer. Yeah. So sadly, I mean,

00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:56.500
that's something that we see a lot, whether it's

00:16:56.500 --> 00:16:58.879
addiction or depression or anxiety or even suicide.

00:16:58.899 --> 00:17:01.480
I mean, that is that is rife in our professions.

00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:05.630
It is very much so. You know, I do remember that

00:17:05.630 --> 00:17:07.309
there was one of the police officers that he

00:17:07.309 --> 00:17:11.569
was very close to. As I recall, my dad was not

00:17:11.569 --> 00:17:17.910
actually on that call when they went. His name

00:17:17.910 --> 00:17:20.789
is James Longfellow. I'm not sure how this many

00:17:20.789 --> 00:17:22.309
years later I remember that gentleman's name,

00:17:22.410 --> 00:17:26.430
but he was shot and severely wounded and was

00:17:26.430 --> 00:17:30.210
a paraplegic, you know, for a long time. And

00:17:30.210 --> 00:17:34.759
I'm not sure the situation. as the story was

00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:38.059
told to me was um was back this tells you how

00:17:38.059 --> 00:17:39.519
long ago it was back when we still had parking

00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:41.859
meters and they put change in the parking meters

00:17:41.859 --> 00:17:46.420
but um part of his job somewhere was then to

00:17:46.420 --> 00:17:48.279
collect that money from the parking meters i'm

00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:50.220
not sure why as a sergeant you would be out doing

00:17:50.220 --> 00:17:52.140
those kind of things but it was a small town

00:17:52.140 --> 00:17:55.640
and um or if it was when the money was brought

00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:58.119
in but he ended up stealing the money from the

00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:01.019
parking meters and it He couldn't live with himself.

00:18:01.259 --> 00:18:03.980
You know, it drove him crazy. I'm sure looking

00:18:03.980 --> 00:18:06.599
back now and the work that we do with veterans

00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:11.200
and understanding what they see, you know, the

00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:13.180
law enforcement, our veterans, all our first

00:18:13.180 --> 00:18:15.200
responders, what they see when they go on calls,

00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:18.839
what they deal with on a daily basis that weighs

00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:23.160
heavily on them. And like you said, they struggle

00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:25.960
with the post -traumatic stress. They struggle,

00:18:26.019 --> 00:18:28.160
you know, with suicidal thoughts constantly.

00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:31.740
And so I do looking back, you know, I have a

00:18:31.740 --> 00:18:33.799
better understanding of some of those things

00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:38.039
that he went through. But I remember I was a

00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:40.240
cheerleader in high school and I remember going

00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:43.420
down to get our cheerleading uniforms in downtown

00:18:43.420 --> 00:18:49.099
Denver. And at the time, Lamar Street or Larimer

00:18:49.099 --> 00:18:52.819
Street, Larimer Street was not like it is now

00:18:52.819 --> 00:18:54.900
with all these fancy restaurants and shops. It

00:18:54.900 --> 00:18:57.059
was the dumps. And that's where the bums were

00:18:57.059 --> 00:19:00.910
at. And I remember we had to walk about two blocks

00:19:00.910 --> 00:19:02.650
through that area to get to where we ordered

00:19:02.650 --> 00:19:06.250
our cheerleading uniforms and walk by a doorstep.

00:19:06.309 --> 00:19:10.009
And there was my my dad, you know, as a bum huddled

00:19:10.009 --> 00:19:13.089
up on that doorstep. And it was just like, oh,

00:19:13.130 --> 00:19:16.730
my gosh, that's that's my dad, you know. And,

00:19:16.769 --> 00:19:19.130
you know, I'm there with my other friends from,

00:19:19.190 --> 00:19:21.910
you know, from high school, the other cheerleaders

00:19:21.910 --> 00:19:24.910
that were with me. And it was just. You know,

00:19:24.930 --> 00:19:27.349
and I couldn't even stop. You know, I was just

00:19:27.349 --> 00:19:31.289
like, oh, my gosh, what do I do? How do I handle

00:19:31.289 --> 00:19:33.349
this? That's my dad. You know, of course, they

00:19:33.349 --> 00:19:35.529
divorced already. And so he'd been gone from

00:19:35.529 --> 00:19:38.250
the home for a while. But he did then later in

00:19:38.250 --> 00:19:40.549
life kind of, you know, pick himself back up

00:19:40.549 --> 00:19:44.710
out of that and was not homeless or a bum anymore.

00:19:44.809 --> 00:19:47.230
But, you know, these are those things that you

00:19:47.230 --> 00:19:51.420
bury. you know, in your psyche, and you don't

00:19:51.420 --> 00:19:53.079
think about you don't talk, I have not thought

00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:55.539
about this for, for years and years and years.

00:19:55.660 --> 00:19:58.380
But, you know, you go back and you go, Oh, my

00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:01.819
gosh, you know, that's, that's, that's personal.

00:20:01.900 --> 00:20:05.240
But that's crazy that, you know, that was my

00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:07.259
childhood, you know, that was my teen years.

00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:10.460
That's, you know, I count my blessings that I'm

00:20:10.460 --> 00:20:13.440
not, you know, locked up somewhere in a mental

00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:16.720
hospital or totally, you know, have lost it.

00:20:16.759 --> 00:20:21.500
But, you know, Like I said, I have not thought

00:20:21.500 --> 00:20:24.359
about that for years and years and years. But

00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:28.359
those are those things of your life that you

00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:31.460
have to move past. You can't get stuck there.

00:20:31.980 --> 00:20:34.839
You can't say, okay, this is the cards that has

00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:37.180
dealt me. This is my life. I'll never be anything.

00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:41.099
I can't, you know, rise above this challenge.

00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:44.440
You know, that is. so much a mindset in life.

00:20:44.579 --> 00:20:47.700
And I will be 67 here in a few weeks. So I've

00:20:47.700 --> 00:20:51.019
had lots of years, you know, and lots of tragedies

00:20:51.019 --> 00:20:54.279
and trials and circumstances, as we all do, you

00:20:54.279 --> 00:20:56.660
know, my circumstance may be a little bit unique.

00:20:57.140 --> 00:20:59.140
And that, you know, no one else can say this,

00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:02.000
you know, saw their dad as a homeless bum, you

00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.740
know, in a corner somewhere, but We've all got

00:21:04.740 --> 00:21:07.359
those trials and those tragedies that we go through

00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:10.519
in our life, and we do have a choice. We don't

00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:13.099
have a choice that the circumstance that was

00:21:13.099 --> 00:21:16.119
handed to us, but we do have a choice how we

00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:19.440
respond. And that's in all of us, no matter what

00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:23.119
our education level is, no matter what our background,

00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:25.839
no matter what we are, social status, no matter

00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:28.960
what color we are, no matter what faith we are,

00:21:29.059 --> 00:21:35.109
we all have that ability. in us to stop, say,

00:21:35.210 --> 00:21:36.549
here's the cards that have been dealt to me.

00:21:37.309 --> 00:21:39.910
Here's the choice I'm going to make. And obviously,

00:21:40.029 --> 00:21:43.650
my son was a Navy SEAL. And I think back to those

00:21:43.650 --> 00:21:47.029
hell week when they have four hours of sleep

00:21:47.029 --> 00:21:50.990
for the entire week. And they get 20 minutes

00:21:50.990 --> 00:21:54.170
here, 10 minutes there. And I'm sure those 20

00:21:54.170 --> 00:21:56.250
minutes, you know, seem like forever when you

00:21:56.250 --> 00:21:58.569
don't get any sleep. But I'll tell you what,

00:21:58.650 --> 00:22:01.250
if I had an amazing night's sleep last night.

00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:03.519
If I'd have had four hours sleep last night,

00:22:03.539 --> 00:22:05.400
you and I would barely be having this conversation

00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:08.339
because I'd keep going, I'm sorry, what was it

00:22:08.339 --> 00:22:10.259
I just said? Where was I at? What was I talking

00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:13.920
about? So I can't imagine having four hours sleep

00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:17.160
for an entire week and still being able to function,

00:22:17.339 --> 00:22:21.940
being sit out on boats, having the boat portage

00:22:21.940 --> 00:22:23.720
where you're being knocked up against the rocks

00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:25.900
and the waves and being out in the sand and getting

00:22:25.900 --> 00:22:28.119
wet and sandy and running and they're just pushing

00:22:28.119 --> 00:22:31.140
you to your limits. But their body gets to a

00:22:31.140 --> 00:22:35.380
place where it says, I can't. I cannot run one

00:22:35.380 --> 00:22:39.220
more stride. I can't swim one more stroke. I'm

00:22:39.220 --> 00:22:42.400
done. I'm physically on toast. And their bodies

00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:44.539
really are physically toast. And yet it's their

00:22:44.539 --> 00:22:49.299
mind that says, no, keep going. One more stroke.

00:22:49.769 --> 00:22:52.990
One more stride. Keep going. Don't quit. One

00:22:52.990 --> 00:22:55.609
more. One more. And that's the mentality that

00:22:55.609 --> 00:22:58.210
we have to have no matter what we're faced with

00:22:58.210 --> 00:23:02.589
in life. You know, those tragedies and trials

00:23:02.589 --> 00:23:06.509
mold us and shape us if we make those choices

00:23:06.509 --> 00:23:09.589
than to take one more step to see what's next.

00:23:09.789 --> 00:23:13.130
And if any of those stages in my life, I would

00:23:13.130 --> 00:23:16.410
have stopped and given up. then we wouldn't be

00:23:16.410 --> 00:23:19.490
where we're at today with our foundation and

00:23:19.490 --> 00:23:22.289
the impact that we're making. You know, we wouldn't,

00:23:22.289 --> 00:23:26.349
I wouldn't be, have 11 grandkids that I get to

00:23:26.349 --> 00:23:29.450
love on and encourage. I'd be home and they'd

00:23:29.450 --> 00:23:32.009
be having to take care of me, you know? And so

00:23:32.009 --> 00:23:35.029
again, that's totally a mindset that any of us

00:23:35.029 --> 00:23:37.390
can choose to make no matter how much pain we're

00:23:37.390 --> 00:23:40.089
in. You know, you can still say, I am going to

00:23:40.089 --> 00:23:42.829
get up today. And I, maybe I'm not, don't have

00:23:42.829 --> 00:23:44.410
the ability to say, I'm going to run a marathon

00:23:44.410 --> 00:23:46.450
today. But I'm going to get up and I'm going

00:23:46.450 --> 00:23:49.089
to run up and down one flight of stairs. And

00:23:49.089 --> 00:23:51.170
that's where we start with those little tiny

00:23:51.170 --> 00:23:54.589
steps and those little tiny choices. And once

00:23:54.589 --> 00:23:56.609
you make that, then it's easier to make one more.

00:23:56.730 --> 00:23:58.769
And you make choices to make sure that you're

00:23:58.769 --> 00:24:01.329
eating healthy and that you're exercising and

00:24:01.329 --> 00:24:03.490
that your mindset, you're training that with

00:24:03.490 --> 00:24:06.369
good things that you're reading. I'm a believer

00:24:06.369 --> 00:24:09.390
for my quiet time every morning is crucial for

00:24:09.390 --> 00:24:11.819
my day. And that has been for... for lots of

00:24:11.819 --> 00:24:14.039
years. And so you make those plans and choices

00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:16.740
in your life to do those things. Beautiful. I

00:24:16.740 --> 00:24:18.400
mean, it's so important to hear that. And I agree

00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:23.299
100%. But I think what's also tragic about, you

00:24:23.299 --> 00:24:26.220
know, the memory you just had is something I

00:24:26.220 --> 00:24:28.059
talk about a lot of these homeless people that

00:24:28.059 --> 00:24:30.180
we see, let's say forget a lot, all of these

00:24:30.180 --> 00:24:33.039
homeless people that we see, have trauma in their

00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:35.380
life, you know, and that point, there may be

00:24:35.380 --> 00:24:37.000
the low, hopefully, they're able to come back

00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:40.269
out of it. Many don't. But I think we have a

00:24:40.269 --> 00:24:43.069
lot of us that are doing much better now. And

00:24:43.069 --> 00:24:46.410
I feel like if we looked at homelessness, if

00:24:46.410 --> 00:24:48.269
we looked at addiction, all these other elements

00:24:48.269 --> 00:24:52.670
as mental health issues, and then we're empathetic

00:24:52.670 --> 00:24:55.069
and compassionate towards these people and help

00:24:55.069 --> 00:24:57.250
raise them up, we won't have a homeless problem

00:24:57.250 --> 00:25:00.230
anymore. But how many homeless, I mean, I know

00:25:00.230 --> 00:25:02.849
of homeless people that were fully functional,

00:25:03.049 --> 00:25:07.180
very successful nurses, that were veterans. you

00:25:07.180 --> 00:25:09.460
know, were firefighters and, you know, then they're

00:25:09.460 --> 00:25:11.720
reduced to, oh, that bum that lives under the

00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:13.960
bridge. No, that's a human being that started

00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:16.680
off as a, you know, bubbly little toddler and

00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:20.200
then life happens. So I think that balance of

00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:23.019
ownership, which obviously, you know, you're

00:25:23.019 --> 00:25:24.720
fully aware of, you walk the walk and you're

00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:27.220
around, you know, Jocko and those guys that certainly

00:25:27.220 --> 00:25:30.940
preach that, but also the environment to lift

00:25:30.940 --> 00:25:33.079
up the broken and give them that foundation so

00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:35.849
they can then start taking those steps. Yeah,

00:25:35.910 --> 00:25:39.269
very much so. And that is contagious. When you're

00:25:39.269 --> 00:25:41.430
out there sharing your struggles and you're sharing

00:25:41.430 --> 00:25:45.950
your story and how you came from where you were,

00:25:46.089 --> 00:25:49.309
whether it's homelessness, a dysfunctional family,

00:25:49.970 --> 00:25:56.369
being left with the loss of a loved one. I've

00:25:56.369 --> 00:25:58.670
walked through that twice, losing a husband and

00:25:58.670 --> 00:26:03.980
losing a son. Whether you deal with... A marriage

00:26:03.980 --> 00:26:06.799
is falling apart, abuse in a marriage, you know,

00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:10.099
you've lost your job. Again, those are circumstances

00:26:10.099 --> 00:26:13.559
that are tragic, but they don't have to define

00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:17.339
who you are. You can make that choice than to

00:26:17.339 --> 00:26:20.000
say, okay, this was, you know, for me, I look

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:21.740
back at, you know, the first marriage that I,

00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:25.480
you know, had, it was a terrible choice. And

00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:29.059
I knew that my mom forbid me to marry him and

00:26:29.059 --> 00:26:32.279
talk about strong will just to piss her off.

00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:35.579
I did it. You know, I'm like, nobody's going

00:26:35.579 --> 00:26:37.740
to prove to me. Nobody's going to tell me I can't

00:26:37.740 --> 00:26:40.380
do anything. Watch this. And the consequences

00:26:40.380 --> 00:26:42.759
came back on me. So that was a stupid choice

00:26:42.759 --> 00:26:46.539
that I made that then I suffered consequences

00:26:46.539 --> 00:26:51.640
because he was an alcoholic and a drug user.

00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:53.920
I did not know that when I married him. I knew

00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:56.730
he liked to drink and party and have fun. I never

00:26:56.730 --> 00:26:59.490
saw, you know, the drug usage or was aware of

00:26:59.490 --> 00:27:01.450
that, but didn't realize it was an alcoholic

00:27:01.450 --> 00:27:04.250
either. But he was great if he wasn't drinking,

00:27:04.410 --> 00:27:06.829
you know, or doing his drugs. But man, he was

00:27:06.829 --> 00:27:10.549
Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde and very abusive and almost

00:27:10.549 --> 00:27:14.109
killed me at the age of 23. But so those are

00:27:14.109 --> 00:27:17.950
things that when I look back on, yes, it was

00:27:17.950 --> 00:27:20.210
my stupid choice. We make stupid choices in life.

00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:22.880
You know, you look back at my loss of Mark. That

00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:25.240
was not my choice at all. You know, that was

00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:27.480
the evil in this world, the savages, as Chris

00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:30.740
Kyle used to call, you know, the terrorists that,

00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:34.400
you know, killed Mark. That wasn't anything.

00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:36.880
So we have circumstances, some that are our own

00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:39.319
stupid choices, some that are not. But we can

00:27:39.319 --> 00:27:42.920
still respond that way to that. I can look back

00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:46.059
and say, you know, I can apologize and I can

00:27:46.059 --> 00:27:49.529
take care of. The consequences because of my

00:27:49.529 --> 00:27:52.730
choices that I'm responsible for. But then you

00:27:52.730 --> 00:27:54.970
don't let that consume you either. You don't

00:27:54.970 --> 00:27:57.430
say, well, I can't do anything else. Look, this

00:27:57.430 --> 00:27:59.609
is what I went through. I had a husband, you

00:27:59.609 --> 00:28:02.470
know, who tried to kill me. I can't I can't.

00:28:02.509 --> 00:28:06.269
What am I going to do? You know, no. Yes, you

00:28:06.269 --> 00:28:09.269
have to heal. You can't ignore it and act like

00:28:09.269 --> 00:28:11.230
nothing happened. I can't look back at Mark's

00:28:11.230 --> 00:28:14.319
loss. and and go on with life and act like nothing

00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:16.660
ever happened I would be in a looney tune bin

00:28:16.660 --> 00:28:19.180
somewhere because you have to accept that you

00:28:19.180 --> 00:28:22.759
have to process through that but you have to

00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:25.960
do it in a healthy way you know not relying on

00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:29.460
drugs and alcohol I get it when people self -medicate

00:28:29.460 --> 00:28:32.940
when they're in pain I totally understand the

00:28:32.940 --> 00:28:35.819
pain you know they say the toughest loss you

00:28:35.819 --> 00:28:37.640
could ever go through is the loss of a child

00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:40.579
and I can tell you having lost a husband and

00:28:40.579 --> 00:28:42.880
lost a child. That is so true. There is nothing

00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:45.740
tougher than losing your kid. It's not supposed

00:28:45.740 --> 00:28:51.220
to be that way. But as you go through those losses,

00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:54.740
you have to process through the stages. They

00:28:54.740 --> 00:28:57.140
say there's seven stages of grief in all the

00:28:57.140 --> 00:28:59.299
books you read. I don't know. There's seven stages

00:28:59.299 --> 00:29:03.099
for everybody. That's a good guideline to tell

00:29:03.099 --> 00:29:05.640
people. But I never went through the anger stage

00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:09.880
of grief with Mark. I knew. that God had a plan.

00:29:10.019 --> 00:29:12.680
I knew that he was still in control. I'd seen

00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:15.539
him walk me through death before. He was still

00:29:15.539 --> 00:29:18.720
the same God on August 2nd as he was on August

00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:21.859
1st. He hadn't changed. My circumstances had

00:29:21.859 --> 00:29:23.920
drastically changed, but he hadn't changed. I

00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:26.160
knew he would see me through. I knew there would

00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:28.259
be pain. I knew I couldn't just say, oh, I'm

00:29:28.259 --> 00:29:31.140
fine. Everything's good. I tell people those

00:29:31.140 --> 00:29:33.599
tears and grieving. are part of that healing

00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:37.019
process. And you have to let them flow. Don't

00:29:37.019 --> 00:29:40.079
bottle them up inside. But on the other hand,

00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:45.799
don't sit and cry all day long. When I know we're,

00:29:45.819 --> 00:29:48.259
you know, leading up to August 2nd, it'll be

00:29:48.259 --> 00:29:51.799
15 years that Mark gave his life. I know those

00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:54.019
are tough days. You know, I haven't been one

00:29:54.019 --> 00:29:57.880
through one anniversary, 15 years out. That's

00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:00.859
not painful. And I know that. So I prepare for

00:30:00.859 --> 00:30:03.630
that. Mark's last letter home talks about doing

00:30:03.630 --> 00:30:05.950
more random acts of kindness. And he says we

00:30:05.950 --> 00:30:08.069
could change our world by doing more random acts

00:30:08.069 --> 00:30:09.730
of kindness. He said, when's the last time you

00:30:09.730 --> 00:30:12.589
paid for a stranger's cup of coffee or meal or

00:30:12.589 --> 00:30:15.710
tank of gas? So I do those things. I go out to

00:30:15.710 --> 00:30:19.210
the base and I find veterans and I buy tanks

00:30:19.210 --> 00:30:21.670
of gas all day long. I buy coffee in the, you

00:30:21.670 --> 00:30:24.190
know, PX where the coffee's at. I buy meals.

00:30:24.690 --> 00:30:26.430
And then I give them a copy of Mark's letter

00:30:26.430 --> 00:30:28.859
and thank them for their service. That is so

00:30:28.859 --> 00:30:31.380
encouraging, so rewarding to do that. And so

00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:33.339
that helps me through that day. I prepare for

00:30:33.339 --> 00:30:37.019
that that way. I'm honoring Mark. But those are

00:30:37.019 --> 00:30:39.640
those things that you learn in life, no matter

00:30:39.640 --> 00:30:41.819
what your circumstances are that you're going

00:30:41.819 --> 00:30:44.759
through the struggles. You learn how to process

00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:47.079
through that. You don't avoid it. You don't go

00:30:47.079 --> 00:30:49.119
above it, around it, beyond it. You got to go

00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:50.940
smack through the middle of it to get to the

00:30:50.940 --> 00:30:54.539
healthier side. And I've had lots of life experience

00:30:54.539 --> 00:30:57.690
to be able to. to practice that and work on that.

00:30:57.809 --> 00:30:59.950
You know, you wish you didn't have to go through

00:30:59.950 --> 00:31:02.470
so much, but I look back and I wouldn't be who

00:31:02.470 --> 00:31:05.450
I am today if it wouldn't have been having to

00:31:05.450 --> 00:31:08.049
go through those to mold me and shape me. I think

00:31:08.049 --> 00:31:10.710
God knew, you know, that strong will that he

00:31:10.710 --> 00:31:14.309
gave me, but that I was using it not according

00:31:14.309 --> 00:31:16.990
to how he wanted me to use it. Once I made the

00:31:16.990 --> 00:31:20.250
choice to do what he wanted me to do, then, man,

00:31:20.309 --> 00:31:22.049
you can't stop a strong -willed person when they're

00:31:22.049 --> 00:31:24.009
going in the right direction and their perseverance

00:31:24.009 --> 00:31:27.890
and, you know. So that was a gift, but I had

00:31:27.890 --> 00:31:31.549
to learn how to use it the right way. Yeah, absolutely.

00:31:31.769 --> 00:31:33.950
Well, you talked about the road that made you

00:31:33.950 --> 00:31:38.109
strong. So firstly, before we get to the marriage

00:31:38.109 --> 00:31:42.029
and obviously the kids that you had, when you

00:31:42.029 --> 00:31:44.069
were at the school age, what were you dreaming

00:31:44.069 --> 00:31:49.589
of being career -wise? Ah, boy, now you're going

00:31:49.589 --> 00:31:51.970
to really take me back to think about what was

00:31:51.970 --> 00:31:55.319
I thinking career -wise? That's a great question.

00:31:55.380 --> 00:31:57.920
I don't remember any specifics. And I'm one of

00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:00.900
those those people that my memory and not just

00:32:00.900 --> 00:32:03.480
because I'm going to be 67, but I've always been

00:32:03.480 --> 00:32:07.380
that way, that there's not a lot that I do remember,

00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:09.960
good or bad. And I think part of that is a protection

00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:12.240
and that you don't remember, you know, like that

00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:14.220
moment a moment ago when I went back to that

00:32:14.220 --> 00:32:16.759
memory that I hadn't thought about in so many

00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:22.829
years. I know that. I did, you know, want to

00:32:22.829 --> 00:32:26.490
be a pilot, but I don't remember what age that

00:32:26.490 --> 00:32:30.269
memory came. But I know that I wanted to be a

00:32:30.269 --> 00:32:32.670
pilot. There were not a lot of obviously not

00:32:32.670 --> 00:32:35.569
a lot of women pilots back then. So that was,

00:32:35.569 --> 00:32:38.670
you know, going to be an extra push to be able

00:32:38.670 --> 00:32:40.650
to make that happen. And that is what I ended

00:32:40.650 --> 00:32:44.950
up going to college for to become a pilot. But

00:32:44.950 --> 00:32:48.130
I don't remember. I know I always wanted to be

00:32:48.130 --> 00:32:51.579
a mom. I wanted to raise kids. I know that was

00:32:51.579 --> 00:32:55.200
always very passionate in my heart. I love children.

00:32:55.660 --> 00:32:57.740
And I, you know, and I think that was probably

00:32:57.740 --> 00:33:00.079
one of my biggest ones. I know I had lots of

00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:01.660
scholarships when I graduated from high school

00:33:01.660 --> 00:33:03.880
and I turned them all down. You know, I got married

00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:06.680
young. I got married at 18. But that was really

00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:08.720
what I wanted to be. It was, you know, I wanted

00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:11.259
to be a mom and a wife, you know. Well, walk

00:33:11.259 --> 00:33:13.019
me through that then. So, you know, as you said,

00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:15.680
you got married young. So what was that period

00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:17.140
like? You mentioned that there were some very

00:33:17.140 --> 00:33:19.099
dark times that were kind of from the inception

00:33:19.099 --> 00:33:21.500
to having your first child kind of walk me through

00:33:21.500 --> 00:33:26.920
that several year journey. Sure. So, like I said,

00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:30.779
I got married. I had just turned 18, July 26th,

00:33:30.779 --> 00:33:33.960
and we got married August 11th. So I was very

00:33:33.960 --> 00:33:36.819
young, but I had started working at the bank

00:33:36.819 --> 00:33:40.700
when I was 16. I had left home. When I was young,

00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:43.359
I already had my own apartment and was working

00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:46.940
full -time. I was very established for an 18

00:33:46.940 --> 00:33:51.019
-year -old financially, I guess. Not that I had

00:33:51.019 --> 00:33:53.859
any huge savings accounts or money set aside,

00:33:54.039 --> 00:33:55.880
but I thought I was doing pretty doggone good

00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:59.339
for 18. They called me the baby of the bank because

00:33:59.339 --> 00:34:05.079
I was the youngest employee they had. We had

00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:08.159
a, you know, apartment. I was loving being out,

00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:11.059
you know, on my own and playing. I think we were

00:34:11.059 --> 00:34:14.320
playing life. I don't know that the reality of

00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:18.820
what we were doing really was considered. But

00:34:18.820 --> 00:34:22.699
noticed, you know, fairly early in the marriage

00:34:22.699 --> 00:34:26.639
when he drank, you know, that if I would make

00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:29.500
a comment to him or say anything or express my

00:34:29.500 --> 00:34:33.079
disappointment or upset in what was happening.

00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:37.460
Then the abuse did not start, you know, right

00:34:37.460 --> 00:34:41.820
away from him beating me. It would be, I remember

00:34:41.820 --> 00:34:44.880
the first thing that happened was he would act

00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:46.900
like he was going to throw a punch at me. And

00:34:46.900 --> 00:34:50.099
then just before it'd get to my face, then he'd

00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:54.900
like itch his nose. And so it was just that intimidation,

00:34:54.920 --> 00:35:00.039
that fear factor. And then it got to be, you

00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:01.739
know, each time it would get a little worse.

00:35:01.780 --> 00:35:03.480
Of course, the next day he would swear up and

00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:06.440
down and apologize. It'll never happen again.

00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:09.920
I'm so sorry. You know, he would bring me a gift

00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:12.460
or a present or flowers, you know, or make me

00:35:12.460 --> 00:35:16.119
a meal or just, you know, and you want to believe.

00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:20.260
And for me, I was, I knew that marriage was for

00:35:20.260 --> 00:35:22.519
life. When I went into that marriage, even though

00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:26.389
I was. rebellious with my reason why I think

00:35:26.389 --> 00:35:28.329
even more so I was going to prove to my mom this

00:35:28.329 --> 00:35:31.909
would work. And so, you know, she never knew

00:35:31.909 --> 00:35:34.429
half the stuff that was going on behind the scenes,

00:35:34.449 --> 00:35:37.429
because then that would validate that she was

00:35:37.429 --> 00:35:39.429
right. And God forbid at that age, I could say

00:35:39.429 --> 00:35:43.909
my mother was right. But and so it just over

00:35:43.909 --> 00:35:46.829
time would progress a little bit more, you know,

00:35:46.829 --> 00:35:49.369
the violence then would be a shove. And then

00:35:49.369 --> 00:35:52.789
it would be, you know, a punch. And then, you

00:35:52.789 --> 00:35:55.429
know, we were married four and a half years and

00:35:55.429 --> 00:35:59.210
it got pretty violent and aggressive at the end

00:35:59.210 --> 00:36:03.730
to the point where my neighbor, we were living

00:36:03.730 --> 00:36:08.230
in apartments and he had heard me screaming and

00:36:08.230 --> 00:36:11.949
yelling. Thank goodness we'd separated. My husband

00:36:11.949 --> 00:36:14.269
and I had separated and he'd been at the bar.

00:36:14.829 --> 00:36:17.349
It was 2 .15 in the morning. I should have gone,

00:36:17.570 --> 00:36:19.670
yeah, the bar's just closed. He's probably drunk.

00:36:20.130 --> 00:36:23.230
No, don't let him come back. But he said, I'm

00:36:23.230 --> 00:36:24.969
coming back to get my stuff. And for me, that

00:36:24.969 --> 00:36:29.030
was, okay, he's finally accepted that. And he

00:36:29.030 --> 00:36:30.869
came back to get his stuff. And there was one

00:36:30.869 --> 00:36:34.469
of those little six -pack coolers. And he came

00:36:34.469 --> 00:36:37.869
down with my oldest son in his arms, who was

00:36:37.869 --> 00:36:41.349
two and a half then. And the cooler was packed

00:36:41.349 --> 00:36:42.929
with his clothes. And he said, I'm taking my

00:36:42.929 --> 00:36:45.750
son. And I remember saying over my dead body

00:36:45.750 --> 00:36:54.070
and. Didn't realize how close that would be at

00:36:54.070 --> 00:36:58.210
that point. So he threw Chris on the couch and

00:36:58.210 --> 00:37:05.929
proceeded to start to beat me. Sorry. When he

00:37:05.929 --> 00:37:12.030
came. When he came that night. When he went up

00:37:12.030 --> 00:37:13.989
to get his stuff, I came downstairs and I left

00:37:13.989 --> 00:37:16.130
the door cracked open in case I needed to run.

00:37:16.829 --> 00:37:19.829
And fortunately, like I said, we lived in condos

00:37:19.829 --> 00:37:21.449
and the neighbor next door heard me screaming

00:37:21.449 --> 00:37:25.349
and yelling and came in. He said he thought at

00:37:25.349 --> 00:37:27.289
that point that I probably was dead because I

00:37:27.289 --> 00:37:30.750
was limp on the couch and I was being choked.

00:37:31.329 --> 00:37:33.650
And he said, you kind of had a bluish tent to

00:37:33.650 --> 00:37:36.670
you. And yet the whole time my son is sitting

00:37:36.670 --> 00:37:41.840
on the couch watching this. They started fighting

00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:44.820
and the guy was a big guy, you know, six foot

00:37:44.820 --> 00:37:48.900
four. My kid's father wasn't very big. And so

00:37:48.900 --> 00:37:50.719
there was a pretty good fight, you know, that

00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:55.679
pursued. And I was able to then, you know, kind

00:37:55.679 --> 00:37:58.019
of wake up a little bit and get up. And I grabbed

00:37:58.019 --> 00:37:59.960
Chris and ran next door and we called the police.

00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:05.599
And Greg finally got away. I think. probably

00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:07.980
when the police came, but I still to this day,

00:38:08.039 --> 00:38:09.820
I don't understand why the police didn't go inside

00:38:09.820 --> 00:38:13.139
and get him. I know he had a very violent, aggressive,

00:38:13.340 --> 00:38:15.260
had been arrested several times, had knife people.

00:38:15.500 --> 00:38:19.539
He was kicked out of the military because he

00:38:19.539 --> 00:38:21.800
had gotten in a fight with two sailors, and one

00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:23.920
of them had, I don't know, some ridiculous 200

00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:27.159
-some stitches or something. So, you know, he

00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:31.340
had a record, and I do know that, you know, the

00:38:31.340 --> 00:38:34.179
domestic abuse is the worst. circumstances you

00:38:34.179 --> 00:38:37.900
can get into for a police officer. And, but for

00:38:37.900 --> 00:38:40.139
whatever reason, they didn't go into the apartment.

00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:42.320
My daughter who was six months old at the time

00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:44.619
was still in there and I was concerned for her.

00:38:45.179 --> 00:38:47.679
And so I basically put my ear against the wall

00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:52.079
and was like, okay, if I hear her crying or screaming,

00:38:52.179 --> 00:38:55.719
I am going back in there. I don't care what the

00:38:55.719 --> 00:38:58.280
outcome is. I've got to do that. And I never,

00:38:58.340 --> 00:39:02.510
you know, didn't hear her, but. And my ex was

00:39:02.510 --> 00:39:04.969
in the kitchen boiling hot water at the stove

00:39:04.969 --> 00:39:06.730
and throwing it out the window at the police

00:39:06.730 --> 00:39:08.909
officers. It's just, you know, it was just weird

00:39:08.909 --> 00:39:11.070
stuff that was going on. But finally, he called

00:39:11.070 --> 00:39:12.949
about 530 in the morning. He said, I've left.

00:39:13.829 --> 00:39:15.949
And he said, you can go get your daughter. And

00:39:15.949 --> 00:39:19.670
so we listened. The neighbor then went in to

00:39:19.670 --> 00:39:22.250
double check and was able to get my daughter

00:39:22.250 --> 00:39:25.909
and bring her back out of there. But, you know,

00:39:25.929 --> 00:39:28.190
that's some horrific stuff to go through. And

00:39:28.190 --> 00:39:33.599
I mean. This would have been 40, 43 years ago.

00:39:33.659 --> 00:39:37.320
And you can still see, you know, that pain, you

00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:40.420
know, when I talk about it, even though, you

00:39:40.420 --> 00:39:42.719
know, that's passed in my life. And I don't let

00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:45.460
that control me and consume me. When you bring

00:39:45.460 --> 00:39:48.300
that back up and you think about those details

00:39:48.300 --> 00:39:51.000
and you walk back through that again, man, that's,

00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:53.179
you know, I almost feel kind of a little sick

00:39:53.179 --> 00:39:55.260
to my stomach right now, you know, going back

00:39:55.260 --> 00:39:58.190
through. some of that stuff. But again, that

00:39:58.190 --> 00:40:01.469
was that perseverance. And what the final straw

00:40:01.469 --> 00:40:06.449
for me was when I made the choice to leave, because

00:40:06.449 --> 00:40:10.409
you get in this rut and you get so controlled

00:40:10.409 --> 00:40:14.409
by that other person. And like I said, the pattern

00:40:14.409 --> 00:40:17.050
is so similar to the movies I've watched, to

00:40:17.050 --> 00:40:20.670
other stories I've heard people tell, the forgiveness

00:40:20.670 --> 00:40:22.909
the next day, the gifts they swear will never

00:40:22.909 --> 00:40:25.289
happen again. I mean, he was even on an abuse.

00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:28.000
which is the prescription drug that they give

00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:31.500
you as an alcoholic that will make you deathly

00:40:31.500 --> 00:40:34.199
sick if you drink while you're on it. And he

00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:36.000
was court ordered. So he had to go somewhere

00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:39.079
and take the Anabuse. And of course, he would

00:40:39.079 --> 00:40:42.800
keep it under his tongue. Or if he actually did

00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:44.880
have to swallow it, then he knew exactly how

00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:47.639
much he could drink before he got to that deathly

00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:51.440
sick point. And, you know, ended up in and out

00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:55.409
of prison, you know, the rest of his life. The

00:40:55.409 --> 00:40:59.610
final straw was he had done that like he was

00:40:59.610 --> 00:41:01.429
going to punch my two and a half year old, that

00:41:01.429 --> 00:41:05.030
motion of the fist and then itching his nose.

00:41:05.110 --> 00:41:09.349
And I went, oh, my gosh. And in a warp sick,

00:41:09.389 --> 00:41:12.170
sick way, I felt like I deserved what I got.

00:41:12.269 --> 00:41:15.610
That's how low I was. And not that anyone ever

00:41:15.610 --> 00:41:21.349
deserves to be beat like that. But when I saw

00:41:21.349 --> 00:41:26.170
him do that to my son. That was the reality for

00:41:26.170 --> 00:41:30.809
me that I said, wait, what? Oh, heck no. That

00:41:30.809 --> 00:41:34.170
little kid did not deserve. And that's when I

00:41:34.170 --> 00:41:36.809
was like, if I'm going to, you know, save my

00:41:36.809 --> 00:41:40.070
children, I've got to walk away from this. And

00:41:40.070 --> 00:41:43.210
that isn't ever circumstances. If anyone happens

00:41:43.210 --> 00:41:45.170
to be listening, that's in that environment.

00:41:45.949 --> 00:41:50.210
You need to get away from that. It's not going

00:41:50.210 --> 00:41:53.010
to get better. It's not going to change without

00:41:53.010 --> 00:41:57.110
professional help. No matter what you try to

00:41:57.110 --> 00:42:00.349
do. And trust me, I tried so many different things,

00:42:00.349 --> 00:42:03.690
you know, to try to get that to be better. They've

00:42:03.690 --> 00:42:06.889
got to want to change that. And they have to

00:42:06.889 --> 00:42:10.030
be the ones that go get the help. and go through

00:42:10.030 --> 00:42:12.730
that but you need to protect yourself do not

00:42:12.730 --> 00:42:14.469
allow yourself to stay in those circumstances

00:42:14.469 --> 00:42:17.570
where you're being abused i'm not saying that

00:42:17.570 --> 00:42:19.489
you have to go file for divorce and be done with

00:42:19.489 --> 00:42:22.130
it but you need to separate and you need to get

00:42:22.130 --> 00:42:24.570
help and you need to protect yourself and your

00:42:24.570 --> 00:42:28.070
children those circumstances that it is it's

00:42:28.070 --> 00:42:31.190
it's tragic well i firstly i want to thank you

00:42:31.190 --> 00:42:33.769
and i'm sorry to you know pull you into that

00:42:33.769 --> 00:42:36.670
that dark place again but i think you just painted

00:42:36.670 --> 00:42:40.949
a very gut -wrenching true story that, as you

00:42:40.949 --> 00:42:43.550
said, there's probably many, many people listening

00:42:43.550 --> 00:42:46.550
that have or are enduring that. And I think that's

00:42:46.550 --> 00:42:49.730
what's so sad. I've responded to multiple infant

00:42:49.730 --> 00:42:52.329
fatalities that ended up being from abuse, and

00:42:52.329 --> 00:42:55.070
it's horrendous and completely preventable. But

00:42:55.070 --> 00:42:59.969
as you said, that abuse followed by the apology,

00:43:00.190 --> 00:43:03.539
that cycle you do see over and over again. So

00:43:03.539 --> 00:43:05.780
I think that's a very important perspective for

00:43:05.780 --> 00:43:07.980
people to hear. And obviously, another layer

00:43:07.980 --> 00:43:12.139
to the incredible trauma you had for multiple

00:43:12.139 --> 00:43:17.400
chapters of your life. So you, by that point,

00:43:17.420 --> 00:43:19.860
obviously had removed yourself in that situation.

00:43:20.099 --> 00:43:23.780
So tell me about raising the boys as a single

00:43:23.780 --> 00:43:25.900
mother and what that dynamic was like for you.

00:43:26.179 --> 00:43:28.940
Right. Well, and at that point, I just had the

00:43:28.940 --> 00:43:31.699
two children. And I just had Chris and Cheryl.

00:43:32.739 --> 00:43:36.280
And because of the violence in the marriage at

00:43:36.280 --> 00:43:39.280
the time, they didn't have the laws that they

00:43:39.280 --> 00:43:41.719
do today to try to, you know, for domestic violence

00:43:41.719 --> 00:43:44.360
and to try to protect. Although I did have a

00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:49.880
restraining order at the time. But because of

00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:52.820
the abuse, then the day that I filed for divorce,

00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:55.519
the divorce was final. There was no waiting period.

00:43:55.820 --> 00:43:59.199
They changed that to be able to protect me. So

00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:01.079
then two weeks later, I found out I was pregnant

00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:06.880
with Mark. so it was like oh my gosh um you know

00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:10.039
in the midst of this and trust me I love children

00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:13.079
but it was just it was overwhelming and it's

00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:15.139
like oh my gosh I got a three and a half year

00:44:15.139 --> 00:44:18.219
old or no a two and a half year old and a six

00:44:18.219 --> 00:44:19.940
month old you know was we were going through

00:44:19.940 --> 00:44:22.360
that and now I'm pregnant with another one I

00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:26.860
get no child support you know I I wasn't even

00:44:26.860 --> 00:44:29.739
you know working at that time and it was like

00:44:29.739 --> 00:44:32.300
okay well I'm going to back to you know, the

00:44:32.300 --> 00:44:34.820
bank and go back to work. But how am I going

00:44:34.820 --> 00:44:36.900
to feed, you know, three children? And then they

00:44:36.900 --> 00:44:39.739
heard two heartbeats. Every time I went in, they

00:44:39.739 --> 00:44:42.039
heard two heartbeats on Mark. And so I'm like,

00:44:42.099 --> 00:44:44.000
oh, now my family's going to double. But there

00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:47.340
was a verse in Psalms that says your children

00:44:47.340 --> 00:44:50.260
will be as arrows in your quiver when you're

00:44:50.260 --> 00:44:52.179
fighting the enemy. And I just clung to that.

00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:53.800
I'm like, okay, I don't know what lays ahead,

00:44:53.940 --> 00:44:55.400
but God knows there's going to be some enemies

00:44:55.400 --> 00:44:57.820
I'm going to need to fight. Okay, my kids are

00:44:57.820 --> 00:45:04.159
a blessing. They are a gift. And so then, you

00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:06.559
know, I was determined I was not going to live

00:45:06.559 --> 00:45:08.960
on welfare. I was not going to let the, you know,

00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:13.579
the state raise me and my children. And there

00:45:13.579 --> 00:45:15.579
were times that I worked, you know, three jobs,

00:45:15.699 --> 00:45:18.199
96 hours a week to be able to take care of my

00:45:18.199 --> 00:45:20.800
kids. And it's tough because I wasn't raising

00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:24.159
my kids when I'm working 96 hours a week. You

00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:26.820
know, someone else was raising those children.

00:45:27.659 --> 00:45:30.699
And in spite of me, fortunately, you know, I

00:45:30.699 --> 00:45:34.860
ended up with three great kids, but we went through

00:45:34.860 --> 00:45:36.699
a lot. They went through a lot, you know, and

00:45:36.699 --> 00:45:39.539
again, because of my stupid strong will going

00:45:39.539 --> 00:45:42.519
to prove something to my mom. You know, they

00:45:42.519 --> 00:45:45.579
had to go through life then without a father

00:45:45.579 --> 00:45:49.820
who was in their their life and a mom who was

00:45:49.820 --> 00:45:52.400
hurting. You know, you could have closed the

00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:54.719
door and my self -esteem was so low I could have

00:45:54.719 --> 00:45:57.099
squeezed in underneath the door. I felt like

00:45:57.099 --> 00:46:01.159
I was worthless, that there was no value. And

00:46:01.159 --> 00:46:04.239
yet, you know, God pulled me up out of the ash

00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:07.340
and redeemed me and let me know I was fearfully

00:46:07.340 --> 00:46:11.019
and wonderfully made and that he loved me. But

00:46:11.019 --> 00:46:14.679
so it was a struggle, you know, trying to take

00:46:14.679 --> 00:46:16.760
care of these kids, trying to go through my grief,

00:46:16.860 --> 00:46:20.320
trying to figure out, you know, what my value,

00:46:20.360 --> 00:46:23.500
what my worth was. But I just kind of kept plugging

00:46:23.500 --> 00:46:26.719
away, plugging away. There were times in there

00:46:26.719 --> 00:46:28.719
that it was like, okay, well, you've got to take

00:46:28.719 --> 00:46:30.380
care of yourself because if you don't love yourself,

00:46:30.539 --> 00:46:32.420
nobody else is going to love you. How are you

00:46:32.420 --> 00:46:33.880
going to love your kids if you don't love yourself?

00:46:34.059 --> 00:46:39.219
I had a car payment back in 1983. I bought a

00:46:39.219 --> 00:46:43.980
Mercury Grand Marquis, which was a $400 car payment

00:46:43.980 --> 00:46:46.519
back then. I don't have a car payment now. I'm

00:46:46.519 --> 00:46:49.119
debt -free, but I wouldn't want a $400 car payment

00:46:49.119 --> 00:46:51.780
now, let alone back then. Again, some stupid

00:46:51.780 --> 00:46:55.500
choices that were made trying to... you know,

00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:58.500
make myself better, you know, prove I was something

00:46:58.500 --> 00:47:02.539
to somebody. I don't know. But so then I was

00:47:02.539 --> 00:47:05.780
a single mom for eight and a half years and married

00:47:05.780 --> 00:47:11.099
again. I know when my ex did finally left, you

00:47:11.099 --> 00:47:13.559
know, he said, you're fat, you're ugly. Nobody's

00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:15.260
going to want a woman with three kids. You know,

00:47:15.260 --> 00:47:18.059
basically you're unlovable. And that's exactly

00:47:18.059 --> 00:47:21.719
the tape that played over and over and over in

00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:24.380
my mind. You know, you're unlovable. You're unlovable.

00:47:24.519 --> 00:47:26.639
Nobody loves you. And like I said, that was then,

00:47:26.659 --> 00:47:29.380
you know, where God led me to Psalms. Again,

00:47:29.500 --> 00:47:31.900
another Psalms verse said, you're fearfully and

00:47:31.900 --> 00:47:34.420
wonderfully made, you know, and I started to,

00:47:34.420 --> 00:47:38.360
you know, grow in my faith and my relationship

00:47:38.360 --> 00:47:41.119
with God and understanding and who he was and

00:47:41.119 --> 00:47:44.079
what I was to him and the value that I was. And,

00:47:44.079 --> 00:47:47.440
you know, that he sent his son, you know, to

00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:51.380
die for me. He loved me that much. So it was

00:47:51.380 --> 00:47:54.940
a growing process. You know, I had a lot of a

00:47:54.940 --> 00:47:57.460
lot of life ahead of me. I had a lot of growth

00:47:57.460 --> 00:48:01.659
to do. And so it was just, you know, going through

00:48:01.659 --> 00:48:05.719
the day to day. And then finally met someone

00:48:05.719 --> 00:48:09.460
who I thought, you know, loved me and was going

00:48:09.460 --> 00:48:11.840
to accepted my kids and was going to take care

00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:17.599
of that. And we married and. Through that time,

00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:19.679
learned he was a horrific liar, that what the

00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:21.739
marriage was built on, who he told me he was.

00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:24.199
I mean, he would orchestrate other people to

00:48:24.199 --> 00:48:26.980
come into his lies and pretend they were his

00:48:26.980 --> 00:48:31.000
mother. And, you know, or when we got engaged,

00:48:31.099 --> 00:48:34.340
I got a phone call from his supposed mom, who

00:48:34.340 --> 00:48:36.099
they were very wealthy. And he'd grown up in

00:48:36.099 --> 00:48:38.840
La Jolla. And she was giving me an airplane as

00:48:38.840 --> 00:48:42.219
our engagement present. I had just, you know,

00:48:42.219 --> 00:48:44.099
been through two and a half years in college.

00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:46.800
To be a pilot, fell and injured my back and couldn't

00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:49.500
pass my first class medical. And so it's all

00:48:49.500 --> 00:48:51.500
excited. But, you know, I mean, just some weird

00:48:51.500 --> 00:48:55.579
stuff. You know, you'd watch a movie and it sounds

00:48:55.579 --> 00:48:57.960
weird to talk about this all in one setting because

00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:01.300
it's just so much. But it's bizarre and it's

00:49:01.300 --> 00:49:06.420
crazy. But short story, long story short, I guess,

00:49:06.519 --> 00:49:09.059
was we were married for about eight years and

00:49:09.059 --> 00:49:12.829
then he ended up taking his own life. And so

00:49:12.829 --> 00:49:15.929
then I have been, I think my husband picker doesn't

00:49:15.929 --> 00:49:18.610
work too well. So for 27 years, I have been a

00:49:18.610 --> 00:49:23.210
widow and I'm good with that. But, you know,

00:49:23.230 --> 00:49:25.650
it's again, it's those tragedies in life. We

00:49:25.650 --> 00:49:28.110
do a lot through our foundation for our veterans

00:49:28.110 --> 00:49:31.550
who are struggling with suicide. And when I speak

00:49:31.550 --> 00:49:34.809
with them, you know, because they know the background

00:49:34.809 --> 00:49:37.409
of Mark and the sacrifice he made and the loss

00:49:37.409 --> 00:49:39.989
and what we're doing, you know, to honor him.

00:49:40.429 --> 00:49:42.710
through that there's that respect piece there

00:49:42.710 --> 00:49:46.489
but when they're deep and when we're in those

00:49:46.489 --> 00:49:50.090
conversations about the suicide and and i'm trying

00:49:50.090 --> 00:49:52.289
to get them to open up and pull more out of them

00:49:52.289 --> 00:49:54.489
and help them you know lots of times they'll

00:49:54.489 --> 00:49:57.369
say you have no idea what i'm going through you

00:49:57.369 --> 00:49:59.949
know and i'll say well actually you know 27 years

00:49:59.949 --> 00:50:03.190
ago my husband took his life and the walls just

00:50:03.190 --> 00:50:05.389
come tumbling down that they're trying to build

00:50:05.389 --> 00:50:08.090
up and they will just open up them pour out their

00:50:08.090 --> 00:50:12.369
hearts to me because they do know that I understand

00:50:12.369 --> 00:50:14.989
the struggles that they're dealing with. And

00:50:14.989 --> 00:50:18.409
again, God used that, not that he caused that

00:50:18.409 --> 00:50:21.550
in my life, but he used those circumstances then

00:50:21.550 --> 00:50:24.489
to help me in the mission that was ahead for

00:50:24.489 --> 00:50:27.150
me to be able to help those veterans. You know,

00:50:27.170 --> 00:50:30.969
as I deal with, you know, obviously as a mom,

00:50:31.070 --> 00:50:33.869
I relate well to other moms who've lost, you

00:50:33.869 --> 00:50:38.030
know, a son in combat. Being a spouse. Now, I've

00:50:38.030 --> 00:50:41.710
lost a spouse in death. I understand. So I can

00:50:41.710 --> 00:50:44.710
comfort and encourage them as well. And again,

00:50:44.909 --> 00:50:47.809
I totally get it. When people curl up in a ball

00:50:47.809 --> 00:50:52.809
and feel sorry for themselves for whatever, whether

00:50:52.809 --> 00:50:55.510
it's grief, whether it's health issues, whether

00:50:55.510 --> 00:50:58.769
it's marriage, financial, when they curl up in

00:50:58.769 --> 00:51:01.530
a ball and feel sorry because that pain is real.

00:51:01.889 --> 00:51:04.630
You don't ignore that pain. Those struggles are

00:51:04.630 --> 00:51:08.690
real. But to be able to encourage them and say,

00:51:08.789 --> 00:51:11.349
yeah, I've been there. I've walked through that.

00:51:11.989 --> 00:51:16.349
And you can still make a choice to go above that,

00:51:16.389 --> 00:51:20.610
to rise above it in spite of what's been handed

00:51:20.610 --> 00:51:23.750
to you. Is it exciting? Are you happy that that

00:51:23.750 --> 00:51:28.909
happened? No, not at all. But for me, it's God's

00:51:28.909 --> 00:51:32.309
strength that's given me that power and that

00:51:32.309 --> 00:51:35.940
mindset. To be able to every day wake up and

00:51:35.940 --> 00:51:38.460
say, thank you, God, that you've given me the

00:51:38.460 --> 00:51:40.860
gift for another day. And at night, you know,

00:51:40.860 --> 00:51:42.980
I go to bed saying, thank you, God, that you

00:51:42.980 --> 00:51:46.300
got me through another day. And I never know

00:51:46.300 --> 00:51:52.239
what lays in store for that day that he has gifted

00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:56.159
me. You know, I have three. As I said, three

00:51:56.159 --> 00:51:59.380
great kids. I have 11 grandchildren that I've

00:51:59.380 --> 00:52:01.699
been blessed with. We just found out I'm going

00:52:01.699 --> 00:52:04.639
to be a great grandma. I'm kind of like, ooh,

00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:11.119
okay, my grandkids call me grandma. My mind great

00:52:11.119 --> 00:52:14.599
grandma's got to be an old woman with a gray

00:52:14.599 --> 00:52:16.739
bun on the top of her head and her walker just

00:52:16.739 --> 00:52:19.599
barely creeping along saying, hey, so sunny,

00:52:19.780 --> 00:52:24.400
what you say? And so we may need a code name

00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:28.079
on now. Super grandma or something. Yeah, I'm

00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:31.940
excited that I've lived enough years. And because

00:52:31.940 --> 00:52:35.500
I was 20, I was young when I had my first one.

00:52:36.639 --> 00:52:41.500
So there is that time then to be able to have

00:52:41.500 --> 00:52:45.239
all those blessings and have all those joys and

00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:49.659
gifts and to be able to encourage others, to

00:52:49.659 --> 00:52:53.329
be able to have a mission. You know, have a real

00:52:53.329 --> 00:52:56.409
purpose. And I think that's so many of the things

00:52:56.409 --> 00:52:58.409
that we go through in life. When I went through,

00:52:58.409 --> 00:53:03.230
you know, my first divorce, there was no purpose.

00:53:03.449 --> 00:53:06.829
I didn't know what I wanted to be or where I

00:53:06.829 --> 00:53:09.610
was going or I didn't have a mission. My only

00:53:09.610 --> 00:53:11.989
day to day was I have three little kids that

00:53:11.989 --> 00:53:14.489
are counting on me. And I have to wake up every

00:53:14.489 --> 00:53:16.550
day and make sure that they're taken care of.

00:53:16.889 --> 00:53:19.590
Was I a perfect mom? Oh, heck no. Ask my children.

00:53:19.730 --> 00:53:22.579
They'll tell you otherwise. But I did the best

00:53:22.579 --> 00:53:26.900
that I could with where I was at in life, with

00:53:26.900 --> 00:53:29.360
the struggles that I had been through in life,

00:53:29.420 --> 00:53:34.019
and with what I knew at that time. I wish, you

00:53:34.019 --> 00:53:37.159
know, Jocko and Leif and their extreme ownership,

00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:40.860
you know, that they teach those principles. I

00:53:40.860 --> 00:53:43.480
wish I had that back then. I wish I had known

00:53:43.480 --> 00:53:48.039
that. The way that I learned it and the lessons

00:53:48.039 --> 00:53:51.440
in life ingrained that so deeply in me, that's

00:53:51.440 --> 00:53:54.179
not going away. You know, sometimes you read

00:53:54.179 --> 00:53:56.280
a book and you're like, oh, these are awesome

00:53:56.280 --> 00:53:58.380
ideas and you start to implement them. Well,

00:53:58.420 --> 00:54:01.639
they don't just all happen overnight. It's a

00:54:01.639 --> 00:54:04.599
progression of practicing that over and over

00:54:04.599 --> 00:54:06.659
and applying that over and over and over in your

00:54:06.659 --> 00:54:10.920
life. And, you know, in my life, it was that

00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:14.179
living life. That were those over and over and

00:54:14.179 --> 00:54:16.380
over. Okay, try this again. Okay, here's another

00:54:16.380 --> 00:54:19.820
circumstance. Okay, try this again. That built

00:54:19.820 --> 00:54:21.880
those. And do I have it all figured out? Do I

00:54:21.880 --> 00:54:23.980
have them all learned? Oh, heck no. You know,

00:54:24.019 --> 00:54:28.139
it's still a progress of learning day to day

00:54:28.139 --> 00:54:31.360
in relationships. And I have learned so much

00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:35.789
from Jocko and from Leif. And from the principles

00:54:35.789 --> 00:54:38.550
that they do teach and the way they do that,

00:54:38.610 --> 00:54:42.010
those are my boys. That was Mark's final gift

00:54:42.010 --> 00:54:45.070
to me was his teammates. And that's my family.

00:54:45.110 --> 00:54:49.610
But I have and continue to, you know, as we go

00:54:49.610 --> 00:54:52.650
to muster and as our foundation, America's Mighty

00:54:52.650 --> 00:54:55.110
Warriors and set up a booth and set up a table.

00:54:55.630 --> 00:54:58.530
But I get to attend those. I do their, you know,

00:54:58.570 --> 00:55:01.769
EF online, which is now Extreme Ownership Academy

00:55:01.769 --> 00:55:04.480
that they're changing over to. You know, I'm

00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:07.019
on those calls every Monday, Wednesday, Friday

00:55:07.019 --> 00:55:09.699
as often as I can be if there's not a conflict

00:55:09.699 --> 00:55:13.059
in the schedule. And I continue to practice those

00:55:13.059 --> 00:55:15.920
things I've learned. Communication is probably

00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:18.639
for me right now the biggest lesson that I've

00:55:18.639 --> 00:55:21.739
learned, you know, and how to be able to communicate

00:55:21.739 --> 00:55:25.519
well to people. You know, not just bark orders

00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:29.320
or, you know, respond out of emotion. So much

00:55:29.320 --> 00:55:33.579
earlier in my life, you know, I responded. from

00:55:33.579 --> 00:55:36.280
that emotion instead of detaching from my emotion.

00:55:36.380 --> 00:55:39.320
You don't ignore your emotion. Emotion is good.

00:55:39.400 --> 00:55:41.840
It's important. It's healthy for you. God gave

00:55:41.840 --> 00:55:45.119
you the different emotions that we have. That's

00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:47.760
who we're made up as humans, but you don't respond.

00:55:48.019 --> 00:55:50.360
You take a, you know, take a breath, take a step

00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:54.079
back and not in anger, you know, you think about,

00:55:54.139 --> 00:55:56.719
or you think, am I listening? Am I hearing what

00:55:56.719 --> 00:55:59.059
they're saying? Or did I all of a sudden develop

00:55:59.059 --> 00:56:01.420
what I thought they were saying? And then I respond

00:56:01.420 --> 00:56:05.539
to that. You know, that's probably my biggest

00:56:05.539 --> 00:56:07.239
learning curve right now where I've learned so

00:56:07.239 --> 00:56:09.639
much about, you know, communication and how we

00:56:09.639 --> 00:56:13.280
communicate to people. Well, I think a common

00:56:13.280 --> 00:56:15.320
denominator that I've had over and over again

00:56:15.320 --> 00:56:19.679
on here is I was taken aback how many people

00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:23.480
have really challenging early lives, you know,

00:56:23.480 --> 00:56:26.860
and it could be. Growing up around alcoholism,

00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:28.480
it could have been recipient of domestic abuse,

00:56:28.599 --> 00:56:30.980
sexual abuse. I had one that was a boy soldier

00:56:30.980 --> 00:56:33.199
in Sierra Leone whose parents were murdered and

00:56:33.199 --> 00:56:36.059
he was forced to kill. Either that or be executed.

00:56:36.780 --> 00:56:40.719
We see these films that are written, these fictional

00:56:40.719 --> 00:56:43.599
stories, but the true stories are so much more

00:56:43.599 --> 00:56:47.760
harrowing, I think. But out of that becomes,

00:56:48.380 --> 00:56:50.940
like you said, that growth, that post -traumatic

00:56:50.940 --> 00:56:56.179
growth, the self -forgiveness. the the courageous

00:56:56.179 --> 00:56:57.980
people with stories like that when they then

00:56:57.980 --> 00:57:01.980
tell their story it's incredible how that opens

00:57:01.980 --> 00:57:04.480
the doors to the conversation it's kind of that

00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:07.019
you know me too even though that that hashtag

00:57:07.019 --> 00:57:09.800
got a you know a bad rap in a way but it's true

00:57:09.800 --> 00:57:13.219
it's like oh you know i i downplayed my trauma

00:57:13.219 --> 00:57:15.699
i was i wasn't at 9 11 therefore i've got no

00:57:15.699 --> 00:57:17.960
reason to feel the way i feel and that's absolute

00:57:17.960 --> 00:57:20.780
crap so you know i think i agree with you completely

00:57:20.780 --> 00:57:23.679
even though those times must have been horrific

00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:27.519
in that moment the ability for you to say i do

00:57:27.519 --> 00:57:29.840
know how you feel this is what happened to me

00:57:29.840 --> 00:57:32.760
i've seen over and over again just from from

00:57:32.760 --> 00:57:34.159
hearing from the guests that have come on and

00:57:34.159 --> 00:57:36.599
told their story people come out the woodwork

00:57:36.599 --> 00:57:39.139
oh you know i've been wanting to talk to someone

00:57:39.139 --> 00:57:41.820
this is how i'm feeling so there's so much value

00:57:41.820 --> 00:57:44.639
in obviously processing that trauma but then

00:57:44.639 --> 00:57:46.980
being able to talk about it to open the doors

00:57:46.980 --> 00:57:50.739
for others yeah You know, that's one thing that

00:57:50.739 --> 00:57:53.579
I always say that God doesn't waste pain. You

00:57:53.579 --> 00:57:55.300
know, you go through that pain in your life.

00:57:55.340 --> 00:57:57.780
You go through those tragedies and trials in

00:57:57.780 --> 00:58:02.340
your life. And if we allow him, then he will

00:58:02.340 --> 00:58:05.619
use those, you know, not only to point others

00:58:05.619 --> 00:58:08.420
to him, but to help other people in the midst

00:58:08.420 --> 00:58:11.460
of their struggles. You know, there's a verse

00:58:11.460 --> 00:58:13.420
that says we comfort others and we encourage

00:58:13.420 --> 00:58:15.440
others in the way that we've been comforted.

00:58:15.739 --> 00:58:17.780
So I think that's important, you know, and not

00:58:17.780 --> 00:58:19.780
that everybody's called to do that. I'm not saying

00:58:19.780 --> 00:58:22.860
everybody has to do that. But when we can use

00:58:22.860 --> 00:58:27.219
our past circumstances, and again, not for sympathy,

00:58:27.400 --> 00:58:30.340
I don't want anybody's sympathy, but just to

00:58:30.340 --> 00:58:33.699
be able to say, here's what I went through. Here's

00:58:33.699 --> 00:58:36.260
the hope that you can have too, that you can

00:58:36.260 --> 00:58:40.179
overcome this tragedy. You can overcome this

00:58:40.179 --> 00:58:43.340
trial, these circumstances. That doesn't have

00:58:43.340 --> 00:58:48.199
to define who you are. you still have that choice,

00:58:48.280 --> 00:58:52.860
that ability to say, I am still in control of

00:58:52.860 --> 00:58:55.900
the choices I make, of the way I think, of my

00:58:55.900 --> 00:58:59.659
actions. You still have control of that. You

00:58:59.659 --> 00:59:02.199
may not have control over anybody else, but you

00:59:02.199 --> 00:59:06.139
can encourage them. You can, you know, be there

00:59:06.139 --> 00:59:09.840
and walk alongside and support them and hopefully

00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:11.920
help them to be able to, you know, rise above

00:59:11.920 --> 00:59:14.340
as well. Absolutely. Well, actually, one of the

00:59:14.340 --> 00:59:17.539
things that struck me the most in the muster

00:59:17.539 --> 00:59:21.539
was Jocko and Leif were talking about, again,

00:59:21.699 --> 00:59:25.519
controlling what you can control. And even in

00:59:25.519 --> 00:59:27.659
a leadership sense, and I've been in places where

00:59:27.659 --> 00:59:31.039
the leadership was horrific, absolutely horrific.

00:59:31.400 --> 00:59:34.960
And when I look back now, they were like, well,

00:59:35.039 --> 00:59:37.260
you can control your reaction to that. You can

00:59:37.260 --> 00:59:41.219
still shape somewhat, but you can't control them.

00:59:41.530 --> 00:59:43.809
at all. And that was a bitter pill to swallow,

00:59:43.909 --> 00:59:45.150
because when I look back, I'm like, okay, well,

00:59:45.170 --> 00:59:46.510
here's some areas I could have done that better.

00:59:46.590 --> 00:59:47.869
I don't think it would have changed the outcome,

00:59:48.090 --> 00:59:50.329
but maybe it would have changed my stress levels,

00:59:50.369 --> 00:59:54.190
if nothing else. But yeah, I think it's very,

00:59:54.309 --> 00:59:58.650
very empowering to realize that, yeah, things

00:59:58.650 --> 01:00:01.409
externally will happen to you, and some are in

01:00:01.409 --> 01:00:05.409
your control, some are not. But just understanding

01:00:05.409 --> 01:00:08.110
that it is what it is, and how you react now

01:00:08.110 --> 01:00:10.550
is the only thing that truly is in your power.

01:00:12.500 --> 01:00:14.619
Yeah. And I think that's one of the things, too,

01:00:14.800 --> 01:00:18.320
that you can still have joy. It doesn't have

01:00:18.320 --> 01:00:23.360
to be. I think of a cat, you know, there used

01:00:23.360 --> 01:00:26.980
to be, I don't know, a clothesline. That really

01:00:26.980 --> 01:00:28.679
dates it because most people don't have clotheslines.

01:00:28.800 --> 01:00:31.559
But the wire that the cat has his chin just above

01:00:31.559 --> 01:00:33.920
it, you know, the claws are kind of on there.

01:00:34.019 --> 01:00:37.719
And it's like, you know, I survived. I'm a survivor.

01:00:38.300 --> 01:00:40.860
You know, and you don't have to go through life

01:00:40.860 --> 01:00:44.719
just. surviving just barely with your head up,

01:00:44.760 --> 01:00:47.960
barely alive. And that's why I tell people you

01:00:47.960 --> 01:00:50.800
can thrive in the midst of your tragedies, in

01:00:50.800 --> 01:00:54.039
the midst of that, you can still have joy. Is

01:00:54.039 --> 01:00:57.320
it happiness? Because, you know, I think everybody's

01:00:57.320 --> 01:00:59.199
searching for happiness. They want to be happy

01:00:59.199 --> 01:01:01.679
in life. And that's based on your circumstances.

01:01:02.340 --> 01:01:04.639
So, you know, if things are great and your marriage

01:01:04.639 --> 01:01:06.360
is great and your finance is great and your health

01:01:06.360 --> 01:01:08.889
is great, you're happy. Well, that's not what

01:01:08.889 --> 01:01:10.690
I'm talking about here. I'm talking about joy.

01:01:10.809 --> 01:01:13.349
I'm talking about the inward feeling that you

01:01:13.349 --> 01:01:16.829
have in your heart, no matter what's going on,

01:01:16.929 --> 01:01:21.849
that you still have that joy. It's not happiness.

01:01:22.409 --> 01:01:27.230
But, you know, that in the midst of losing, you

01:01:27.230 --> 01:01:29.849
know, a husband to suicide, being, you know,

01:01:29.849 --> 01:01:32.449
almost killed by the first husband, losing my

01:01:32.449 --> 01:01:36.380
son, I can still choose to laugh. and be joyful

01:01:36.380 --> 01:01:39.760
and have those, you know, that's an attitude

01:01:39.760 --> 01:01:42.199
that comes from within me. That's not based on

01:01:42.199 --> 01:01:44.420
my outward circumstances and what's happening

01:01:44.420 --> 01:01:48.599
around me. And that we do have control on. Absolutely.

01:01:48.619 --> 01:01:50.840
Well, speaking of your son, so I guess we should

01:01:50.840 --> 01:01:52.760
probably walk through, you know, Mark's life

01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:57.579
and his siblings as well. So from what I understand,

01:01:57.659 --> 01:01:59.900
I listened to Mike Ritland's interview that you

01:01:59.900 --> 01:02:04.260
were on, mentioned about you exposing them to

01:02:05.019 --> 01:02:09.539
So tell me kind of the timeline of being young

01:02:09.539 --> 01:02:12.920
kids and when they started to show interest in

01:02:12.920 --> 01:02:18.340
actually serving. And I don't know that there

01:02:18.340 --> 01:02:20.199
were any specific times. I mean, they were always,

01:02:20.239 --> 01:02:22.920
you know, boy boys, you know, digging the dirt,

01:02:23.079 --> 01:02:25.500
you know, taking a piece of wood and making a

01:02:25.500 --> 01:02:27.860
gun. And, you know, I always tell people this

01:02:27.860 --> 01:02:32.679
garbage in America that, you know, we can't have.

01:02:33.119 --> 01:02:36.480
You know, you have to push your children or not

01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:39.139
push your children to whatever gender. They come

01:02:39.139 --> 01:02:42.460
wired as warriors and you can't unmake them.

01:02:42.539 --> 01:02:45.860
If God intended for them to be a warrior, you

01:02:45.860 --> 01:02:48.739
can do whatever you want. You can take, you know,

01:02:48.739 --> 01:02:51.460
not give them Nerf guns or guns or they're going

01:02:51.460 --> 01:02:53.659
to take their toast and bite it into be a gun.

01:02:53.760 --> 01:02:57.320
You know, that doesn't work. But you can't make

01:02:57.320 --> 01:02:59.519
them a warrior if they didn't come that way either.

01:02:59.599 --> 01:03:01.400
You can try all you want. And it's something

01:03:01.400 --> 01:03:04.360
that's internal. that comes that way. And so

01:03:04.360 --> 01:03:07.480
you, you want to, you know, support that. You

01:03:07.480 --> 01:03:10.800
want to build that, you know, encourage that

01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:13.940
character, I guess. I mean, I have Nerf gun wars

01:03:13.940 --> 01:03:17.019
with my grandkids all the time. You know, we,

01:03:17.159 --> 01:03:19.340
we enjoy life. We have fun. Even my, you know,

01:03:19.360 --> 01:03:21.460
granddaughter who has four brothers, you know,

01:03:21.460 --> 01:03:23.940
four older brothers, very much. She's a little

01:03:23.940 --> 01:03:26.559
girl's girl, but man, she's a tough little cookie.

01:03:26.599 --> 01:03:28.780
We have a video of her. She, she will be four

01:03:28.780 --> 01:03:34.150
next week, but. They have a Nissan 12 passenger

01:03:34.150 --> 01:03:37.730
van and she literally has one of the big exercise

01:03:37.730 --> 01:03:40.489
ropes that they hooked up to the van and she

01:03:40.489 --> 01:03:45.590
is pulling the van. Oh my goodness. I mean, it's

01:03:45.590 --> 01:03:49.329
in neutral, but she is pulling that van. I'm

01:03:49.329 --> 01:03:52.030
like, what the heck? And her mom said, well,

01:03:52.070 --> 01:03:53.869
it's a little bit of an incline. If you go down

01:03:53.869 --> 01:03:55.550
the street, it doesn't feel like it's much of

01:03:55.550 --> 01:03:58.210
an incline. It's not like it was on a hill and

01:03:58.210 --> 01:04:00.670
she's rolling and they got a video before the

01:04:00.670 --> 01:04:04.710
van runs over her. But she is a tough little

01:04:04.710 --> 01:04:07.929
cookie. And then I got a little sidetracked there

01:04:07.929 --> 01:04:10.230
on what we were talking about. What was your

01:04:10.230 --> 01:04:12.429
question just for that? No, it's okay. So basically

01:04:12.429 --> 01:04:15.989
kind of walk me through, because I know several

01:04:15.989 --> 01:04:17.510
of the boys ended up in the military, kind of

01:04:17.510 --> 01:04:20.469
when they did show that interest and kind of

01:04:20.469 --> 01:04:22.389
walk me through even further into their enlistment.

01:04:23.089 --> 01:04:24.829
Sure. And, you know, that's one of the things,

01:04:24.869 --> 01:04:27.030
you know, Mark says it was all the war movies

01:04:27.030 --> 01:04:28.690
I made him watch. That's why they went in the

01:04:28.690 --> 01:04:30.510
military. I'm like, yeah, no, you came out of

01:04:30.510 --> 01:04:33.829
that way. It wasn't those. But I've always been

01:04:33.829 --> 01:04:37.469
when I read, I read to learn something to better

01:04:37.469 --> 01:04:42.070
myself, you know, history, background. So I'm

01:04:42.070 --> 01:04:44.250
kind of the same way with movies. I want to watch

01:04:44.250 --> 01:04:47.570
movies that are, you know, historical movies,

01:04:47.650 --> 01:04:51.070
not that they're always documentaries, but. I've

01:04:51.070 --> 01:04:54.349
just been always really drawn to those that show,

01:04:54.469 --> 01:04:56.510
you know, the men and women in the military,

01:04:56.550 --> 01:04:58.489
what they've done to defend us and the freedoms

01:04:58.489 --> 01:05:01.269
that we enjoy every day. I don't take that for

01:05:01.269 --> 01:05:04.530
granted that there was a price that was paid

01:05:04.530 --> 01:05:07.889
for me to every morning, wake up and enjoy that.

01:05:07.949 --> 01:05:10.650
I can worship the way I want. I can say, you

01:05:10.650 --> 01:05:13.389
know, those things, you know, obviously I can't

01:05:13.389 --> 01:05:16.329
within reason tell people that the building's

01:05:16.329 --> 01:05:18.230
burning down when it's not and cause, you know,

01:05:18.230 --> 01:05:22.360
panic or riot or. But I have amazing freedoms

01:05:22.360 --> 01:05:25.400
here in America. And there is a deer price that's

01:05:25.400 --> 01:05:28.880
paid. Through the years, obviously, I've learned

01:05:28.880 --> 01:05:32.760
how deep and personal that deer price is. But

01:05:32.760 --> 01:05:35.199
I've always known that. So I've been drawn to

01:05:35.199 --> 01:05:36.940
those kind of movies. That was just, you know,

01:05:36.960 --> 01:05:41.400
a lot of what we watched growing up. And I think

01:05:41.400 --> 01:05:45.860
every young man in their, you know, developing

01:05:45.860 --> 01:05:50.539
ages as a young teen watches a movie. you know

01:05:50.539 --> 01:05:53.119
especially i remember mark watching you know

01:05:53.119 --> 01:05:57.500
the navy seals movie and uh you know looking

01:05:57.500 --> 01:05:59.400
back now laughing going well that's not even

01:05:59.400 --> 01:06:03.880
near what what it's about but they watch the

01:06:03.880 --> 01:06:06.300
movie and they get the beautiful women and they

01:06:06.300 --> 01:06:08.940
get to blow things up and you know they're the

01:06:08.940 --> 01:06:11.659
heroes you know who would not as a young man

01:06:11.659 --> 01:06:13.800
want want to be a navy seal after you watch a

01:06:13.800 --> 01:06:16.880
movie like that but um i don't think for mark

01:06:16.880 --> 01:06:20.559
um It was until later in life where he really

01:06:20.559 --> 01:06:23.679
developed that. My oldest son, Christopher, went

01:06:23.679 --> 01:06:28.880
in the Marines in August of 2000. My son -in

01:06:28.880 --> 01:06:30.599
-law, Christopher, yes, they're both Christophers,

01:06:30.599 --> 01:06:33.519
gets a little confusing, but went in the Army

01:06:33.519 --> 01:06:39.659
in October of 2000. So then in May of 2001, Mark

01:06:39.659 --> 01:06:44.239
went in the Navy with the contract to go to Bud's.

01:06:44.300 --> 01:06:46.280
Doesn't guarantee that you'll be a SEAL, but...

01:06:46.510 --> 01:06:49.050
says you're good enough, physically fit and intelligent

01:06:49.050 --> 01:06:52.010
enough that you could be a candidate and you're

01:06:52.010 --> 01:06:53.769
going to go once you do your basic training.

01:06:54.170 --> 01:06:57.869
I think for Mark, you know, he saw the camaraderie.

01:06:57.929 --> 01:07:00.789
He saw his brother and brother -in -law, you

01:07:00.789 --> 01:07:03.710
know, go through the military and the physical.

01:07:03.809 --> 01:07:06.150
Mark was always very, you know, physically fit,

01:07:06.210 --> 01:07:10.510
was a soccer player. But I think there was a

01:07:10.510 --> 01:07:13.230
lot of competitiveness and it was like, hey,

01:07:13.250 --> 01:07:15.210
watch this. You're in the Marines, you're in

01:07:15.210 --> 01:07:17.219
the Army. Well, I'm going to go be a Navy SEAL.

01:07:17.880 --> 01:07:23.739
And he had actually blew out his knee, came home

01:07:23.739 --> 01:07:26.679
his freshman year and said, Mom, I'm going to

01:07:26.679 --> 01:07:29.820
be a professional soccer player. And I always

01:07:29.820 --> 01:07:32.340
taught my kids, you know, even, you know, when

01:07:32.340 --> 01:07:36.519
I was struggling in the beginning years of raising

01:07:36.519 --> 01:07:38.739
them as a single mom that, you know, you put

01:07:38.739 --> 01:07:40.500
your mind to it, you can do whatever you want

01:07:40.500 --> 01:07:45.849
to do. When they would come home and say, I can't

01:07:45.849 --> 01:07:48.309
do this, I would say, no, you mean you won't

01:07:48.309 --> 01:07:51.110
do this. And so they would hear those things

01:07:51.110 --> 01:07:55.869
in that attitude. And when he came home and told

01:07:55.869 --> 01:07:57.590
me he was going to be a professional soccer player

01:07:57.590 --> 01:08:00.510
as a freshman, and because we didn't have a lot

01:08:00.510 --> 01:08:02.469
of money, they didn't play any youth sports.

01:08:02.550 --> 01:08:05.730
My grandkids are involved in, you know, youth

01:08:05.730 --> 01:08:08.070
sports and are on club teams. And oh, my gosh,

01:08:08.190 --> 01:08:10.389
it's a whole different world than what we lived

01:08:10.389 --> 01:08:14.639
in. And, you know, I remember saying, Mark, you've

01:08:14.639 --> 01:08:17.659
never played soccer in your life. Kind of like,

01:08:17.739 --> 01:08:19.960
what the heck do you think it's done? But trying

01:08:19.960 --> 01:08:22.460
to, you know, still, if you put your mind to

01:08:22.460 --> 01:08:25.279
it, you know, thing balancing out there. And

01:08:25.279 --> 01:08:27.479
he said, no, mom, I really want to do this. I'm

01:08:27.479 --> 01:08:30.840
like, OK. You know, and so he started, you know,

01:08:30.840 --> 01:08:33.739
I was homeschooling them and he went to the high

01:08:33.739 --> 01:08:35.359
school because he could play sports with the

01:08:35.359 --> 01:08:40.279
high school. And he was the most improved player.

01:08:41.039 --> 01:08:44.640
His freshman year later is actually at his funeral.

01:08:44.699 --> 01:08:48.539
His soccer coach spoke and he said he was probably

01:08:48.539 --> 01:08:52.520
the worst soccer player he had ever seen. And

01:08:52.520 --> 01:08:54.720
so I guess you got a long ways to get most improved

01:08:54.720 --> 01:08:57.739
player when you're the worst soccer player. But

01:08:57.739 --> 01:09:02.899
he ended up being the youngest soccer coach at

01:09:02.899 --> 01:09:06.239
the high school. He was trying out for the Colorado

01:09:06.239 --> 01:09:08.359
Rapids, which is the professional soccer team.

01:09:08.970 --> 01:09:12.409
in Colorado and blew out his knee the night before

01:09:12.409 --> 01:09:17.210
tryouts. So had to come home, get surgery. He

01:09:17.210 --> 01:09:21.489
had torn his ACL. They removed half of his meniscus.

01:09:21.850 --> 01:09:24.670
And it was during that time they really started

01:09:24.670 --> 01:09:29.850
doing a lot of reading of, you know, autobiographies

01:09:29.850 --> 01:09:32.989
of Navy SEALs. And I noticed he started going

01:09:32.989 --> 01:09:35.170
to the pool more often than swimming. They hadn't

01:09:35.170 --> 01:09:39.420
had swim lessons growing up. And I noticed he'd

01:09:39.420 --> 01:09:43.420
have a workout routine, you know, he'd been working

01:09:43.420 --> 01:09:45.460
out at the gym regularly. That was a habit of

01:09:45.460 --> 01:09:48.399
his that he did have. And, you know, he started

01:09:48.399 --> 01:09:50.859
refining that more and I noticed, you know, more

01:09:50.859 --> 01:09:53.039
numbers in the pull -ups and the sit -ups and

01:09:53.039 --> 01:09:55.619
the, you know, burpees and whatever else he had

01:09:55.619 --> 01:09:58.520
on there. But, and that's when he made the conscious

01:09:58.520 --> 01:10:01.859
choice why he was healing. He did go back to

01:10:01.859 --> 01:10:04.899
the master's college for one more semester, wanted

01:10:04.899 --> 01:10:06.760
to play a little more soccer. And that's then.

01:10:07.239 --> 01:10:11.579
When he went to the recruiters in May and then

01:10:11.579 --> 01:10:15.960
went to try out to become a Navy SEAL. The first

01:10:15.960 --> 01:10:17.680
time that he went through, he got pneumonia and

01:10:17.680 --> 01:10:21.579
pulmonary edema during Hell Week. And it was

01:10:21.579 --> 01:10:24.600
just a couple hours before the cutoff point where

01:10:24.600 --> 01:10:26.520
he would have been rolled forward and would have

01:10:26.520 --> 01:10:29.520
still been in class 239 with the rest of his

01:10:29.520 --> 01:10:32.239
class he started with. But he wasn't quite to

01:10:32.239 --> 01:10:35.260
that point. So and he went in when they did the

01:10:35.260 --> 01:10:37.180
medical exam on him and told him what he had.

01:10:37.220 --> 01:10:38.880
He's like, no, I could do this. I'm good. I'm

01:10:38.880 --> 01:10:41.000
good. And they said, no, we had a guy die two

01:10:41.000 --> 01:10:43.159
classes ago with what you've got. We've got to

01:10:43.159 --> 01:10:45.680
pull you. We don't have a choice. And so then

01:10:45.680 --> 01:10:50.420
he got rolled into class 240, rang the bell on

01:10:50.420 --> 01:10:53.159
Hell Week on Monday night, was sent to the fleet,

01:10:53.340 --> 01:10:55.460
the boat that he was sent to, because you still

01:10:55.460 --> 01:10:58.220
got to finish your contract, you know, even though

01:10:58.220 --> 01:11:02.100
you. you know, drop out of the seals. And his

01:11:02.100 --> 01:11:04.880
boat was in dry dock. He was, it was the USS

01:11:04.880 --> 01:11:07.800
enterprise. No way. It was the Eisenhower. I

01:11:07.800 --> 01:11:09.579
always get these confused. I think it was USS

01:11:09.579 --> 01:11:12.560
Eisenhower, which was in dry dock. So he was

01:11:12.560 --> 01:11:16.020
driving a shuttle bus for the army. I have a

01:11:16.020 --> 01:11:18.359
picture of him with his head on the steering

01:11:18.359 --> 01:11:23.859
wheel. Oh my gosh. I mean, what a contrast go

01:11:23.859 --> 01:11:25.800
from trying out to be a Navy SEAL. And now you're

01:11:25.800 --> 01:11:28.649
driving a shuttle bus. You know, he was hating

01:11:28.649 --> 01:11:32.510
life. And I remember the phone call when he said,

01:11:32.550 --> 01:11:36.229
Mom, I screwed up. And, you know, we talked about,

01:11:36.229 --> 01:11:39.170
you know, why he made that decision. And he really

01:11:39.170 --> 01:11:41.869
felt like it was the wrong decision that he made.

01:11:42.010 --> 01:11:43.869
And I said, you know, have you prayed about this?

01:11:43.930 --> 01:11:45.409
Are you sure this is where God wants you? And

01:11:45.409 --> 01:11:47.229
he goes, yep, I'm positive. That's where I'm

01:11:47.229 --> 01:11:48.489
supposed to be. I said, well, you need to get

01:11:48.489 --> 01:11:50.630
your butt back there. Then you need to do whatever

01:11:50.630 --> 01:11:53.210
it takes. You need to jump through whatever hoops

01:11:53.210 --> 01:11:55.609
you need to. But you need to get back there.

01:11:56.220 --> 01:11:58.800
And it took him about a year. He had to go through,

01:11:58.939 --> 01:12:01.359
I mean, they put him through, he had to write

01:12:01.359 --> 01:12:04.140
essays, he had to do extra PT, he had to meet

01:12:04.140 --> 01:12:06.699
with officers. And for a year, he had to go through

01:12:06.699 --> 01:12:09.739
that process. And rightfully so. You know, if

01:12:09.739 --> 01:12:11.260
you've been through once and quit, how do they,

01:12:11.340 --> 01:12:14.640
you know, know that you won't just do that again.

01:12:15.340 --> 01:12:19.359
But I went back in class 251 and was in running

01:12:19.359 --> 01:12:23.000
for honor man in the platoon. Did not get honor

01:12:23.000 --> 01:12:24.859
man. I remember that phone call and him saying.

01:12:25.560 --> 01:12:27.520
Oh, mom, I didn't get on her, man. I'm like,

01:12:27.579 --> 01:12:31.079
Mark, you got your trident. I'm competitive.

01:12:31.239 --> 01:12:34.899
So I get it that, you know, but, um, you know,

01:12:34.899 --> 01:12:39.000
and just an amazing story of perseverance there,

01:12:39.140 --> 01:12:41.039
you know, to go through buds three different

01:12:41.039 --> 01:12:44.659
times, um, you know, and looking back, you know,

01:12:44.659 --> 01:12:45.939
and I'm sure any of the teen guys would tell

01:12:45.939 --> 01:12:48.680
you, you know, they make it sound like in the

01:12:48.680 --> 01:12:51.079
movies you watch, you know, buds is the worst

01:12:51.079 --> 01:12:54.130
part, the, you know, Like I said, they don't

01:12:54.130 --> 01:12:56.590
call it Hell Week for no reason, but, you know,

01:12:56.630 --> 01:12:58.609
that they went through. But that was the easy

01:12:58.609 --> 01:13:01.770
part, you know, looking back when you're deployed

01:13:01.770 --> 01:13:06.010
into combat and what they endure and what they

01:13:06.010 --> 01:13:09.050
go through. Man, that's intense. That's crazy.

01:13:09.130 --> 01:13:13.489
But very proud of my son, my son -in -law and

01:13:13.489 --> 01:13:15.670
Mark, you know, that all served in the military

01:13:15.670 --> 01:13:19.189
and defended me and my freedoms. Very proud of

01:13:19.189 --> 01:13:24.090
our military and my kids. Well, I'm sure. And

01:13:24.090 --> 01:13:26.069
the thing, what really kind of stands out on

01:13:26.069 --> 01:13:28.270
Mark's story is, you know, I've had a lot of

01:13:28.270 --> 01:13:30.170
seals on here now. I've been very lucky to, I

01:13:30.170 --> 01:13:31.409
think, I think the special operations community

01:13:31.409 --> 01:13:34.729
has so much value and so many tangents with the

01:13:34.729 --> 01:13:36.390
first responder community. So we have a lot to

01:13:36.390 --> 01:13:40.670
learn from each other. But understanding the

01:13:40.670 --> 01:13:45.090
physical, mental grit to get through buds once,

01:13:45.270 --> 01:13:48.069
you know, or maybe get rolled back and have to

01:13:48.069 --> 01:13:52.439
finish a portion. how hard that is and the attrition

01:13:52.439 --> 01:13:56.039
rate. But to be rolled back and then have to

01:13:56.039 --> 01:14:00.020
vie for a place again, that speaks volumes on

01:14:00.020 --> 01:14:03.079
his physical and mental fortitude. So have you

01:14:03.079 --> 01:14:05.920
ever kind of analyzed that and looked back what

01:14:05.920 --> 01:14:09.500
allowed him to succeed when so many other people

01:14:09.500 --> 01:14:14.020
had failed? I really think it was a lot of the

01:14:14.020 --> 01:14:18.180
tragedies and trials that he grew up through.

01:14:18.920 --> 01:14:21.760
You know, seeing that, like I said, not the perfect

01:14:21.760 --> 01:14:24.159
mom by any means, but that we weren't going to

01:14:24.159 --> 01:14:27.119
quit, that we did always continue to pick ourselves

01:14:27.119 --> 01:14:30.560
back up no matter what was thrown at us, no matter

01:14:30.560 --> 01:14:34.140
what was given. And one step at a time, we just

01:14:34.140 --> 01:14:36.439
went forward one step at a time, one step at

01:14:36.439 --> 01:14:40.380
a time. I know that his faith was a big part

01:14:40.380 --> 01:14:43.420
of that. Mark was going to the master's college

01:14:43.420 --> 01:14:46.739
to be a pastor before he went into the seals.

01:14:47.550 --> 01:14:50.529
So I know knowing the mindset and the purpose

01:14:50.529 --> 01:14:52.430
that this was the mission that God had given

01:14:52.430 --> 01:14:55.670
him to complete, you know, and that, you know,

01:14:55.670 --> 01:14:57.630
God was going to equip him and give him the strength

01:14:57.630 --> 01:15:02.489
for that. I know that Mark had no idea the end

01:15:02.489 --> 01:15:05.590
of the story, you know, how it would end here

01:15:05.590 --> 01:15:07.550
on earth for him. You know, Mark was redeployed

01:15:07.550 --> 01:15:09.529
to heaven, so it hasn't ended for him and he

01:15:09.529 --> 01:15:11.789
will have, you know, a lifetime up there. But

01:15:11.789 --> 01:15:14.409
to see the impact that Mark is still making around

01:15:14.409 --> 01:15:18.189
the world in such a crazy way. Today, that would

01:15:18.189 --> 01:15:22.069
not have happened if Mark was still here. Selfishly,

01:15:22.069 --> 01:15:24.310
would I rather have him here? Yeah, in a heartbeat,

01:15:24.609 --> 01:15:30.390
you know. But I do know where he is. I will see

01:15:30.390 --> 01:15:33.850
him again one day. And God made Mark's mission

01:15:33.850 --> 01:15:36.149
clear to him and he's made my mission clear to

01:15:36.149 --> 01:15:38.210
me, you know, and what I'm supposed to be doing.

01:15:40.079 --> 01:15:41.880
You know, one of the things I think back of Mark

01:15:41.880 --> 01:15:44.319
was his humor. Oh, my gosh, he won class clown

01:15:44.319 --> 01:15:47.079
two years in a row. And I was like, oh, great.

01:15:47.239 --> 01:15:48.600
And this is going to get you to college. How?

01:15:48.739 --> 01:15:52.439
Really? But I do see that that was another one

01:15:52.439 --> 01:15:55.680
of the tools that, you know, that's how God equipped

01:15:55.680 --> 01:16:00.100
Mark. And the guys will tell you, you know, he

01:16:00.100 --> 01:16:03.680
was always. You know, would bring the humor and

01:16:03.680 --> 01:16:05.640
just when they needed something lighthearted

01:16:05.640 --> 01:16:07.920
for a minute. Obviously, he would be focused

01:16:07.920 --> 01:16:10.100
on the mission. He wasn't a class clown when,

01:16:10.140 --> 01:16:13.140
you know, they had an intense mission and needed

01:16:13.140 --> 01:16:15.180
to stay on target. And, you know, he carried

01:16:15.180 --> 01:16:22.640
the big gun. But and he just was a warm, loving.

01:16:22.720 --> 01:16:25.920
He would stand up for the underdog anytime. He

01:16:25.920 --> 01:16:28.859
didn't care who said what or if anybody made

01:16:28.859 --> 01:16:32.220
fun of him. And I remember, like I said, I homeschooled

01:16:32.220 --> 01:16:34.119
them and I would drop him off, you know, at the

01:16:34.119 --> 01:16:35.920
high school for a soccer game and the bus would

01:16:35.920 --> 01:16:38.260
be loading up and, you know, there'd be guys

01:16:38.260 --> 01:16:40.260
on the bus and he'd come around to the car and

01:16:40.260 --> 01:16:42.560
give me a big kiss and a hug. You know, he didn't

01:16:42.560 --> 01:16:45.479
care who saw him or what, you know, was going

01:16:45.479 --> 01:16:47.840
on. And somebody was being picked on, man. He'd

01:16:47.840 --> 01:16:52.079
be there to stand up for them. And just, yeah,

01:16:52.180 --> 01:16:54.560
amazing young man. I was blessed to be his mom

01:16:54.560 --> 01:16:58.880
for 28 years. And he lived more in that 28 years

01:16:58.880 --> 01:17:02.260
than. Most people that live, you know, 90 years.

01:17:02.859 --> 01:17:07.159
And, you know, I do. I count my blessings that

01:17:07.159 --> 01:17:09.199
God picked me to be his mom. He could have picked

01:17:09.199 --> 01:17:11.979
anybody else. And I had the privilege of being

01:17:11.979 --> 01:17:15.079
his mom also. Yeah, well, you seem very proud

01:17:15.079 --> 01:17:19.319
to this day. Yes, very much so. Well, he ended

01:17:19.319 --> 01:17:21.819
up obviously working with some incredible humans.

01:17:21.960 --> 01:17:26.079
So kind of walk me through. what you got through

01:17:26.079 --> 01:17:28.520
letters, conversations, and that kind of thing,

01:17:28.640 --> 01:17:31.859
his experience getting to SEAL Team 3 and then

01:17:31.859 --> 01:17:36.439
ultimately Ramadi. Yeah, and again, your unique

01:17:36.439 --> 01:17:39.539
circumstances for Mark when he joined Charlie

01:17:39.539 --> 01:17:45.880
Platoon. He was on SEAL Team 3. He was on, I

01:17:45.880 --> 01:17:49.100
believe he was on Echo, was who he was on originally.

01:17:49.239 --> 01:17:52.829
They had... circumstances with one of the guys

01:17:52.829 --> 01:17:54.909
that was on charlie platoon that they had to

01:17:54.909 --> 01:17:59.170
let go and um last minute they typically do a

01:17:59.170 --> 01:18:02.550
workup so once they're assigned to a team they've

01:18:02.550 --> 01:18:06.409
got 18 months of workup that they work together

01:18:06.409 --> 01:18:09.050
with their team in and out day and night and

01:18:09.050 --> 01:18:13.310
they build a unique tight bond well because they

01:18:13.310 --> 01:18:17.670
had to let this person go then last minute they

01:18:17.670 --> 01:18:20.939
went and said okay It's short notice before we

01:18:20.939 --> 01:18:23.739
deploy. We need the best guy that you've got

01:18:23.739 --> 01:18:26.460
out there to come acclimate into our platoon.

01:18:27.399 --> 01:18:31.619
And it was Mark. And so he didn't get the privilege

01:18:31.619 --> 01:18:34.239
of going through all the different workups. He

01:18:34.239 --> 01:18:38.899
came right in at the end. And he was the new

01:18:38.899 --> 01:18:41.800
guy. And so the new guy, man, you get given all

01:18:41.800 --> 01:18:45.699
kinds of crap. You've got to work to be part

01:18:45.699 --> 01:18:50.550
of this platoon. You know, they they took bets,

01:18:50.609 --> 01:18:54.029
I guess, behind the scenes as to how long, you

01:18:54.029 --> 01:18:58.229
know, before Mark could be acclimated in. And

01:18:58.229 --> 01:19:00.770
but anyway, they said it wasn't long with his

01:19:00.770 --> 01:19:03.529
humor, with his big heart that they couldn't,

01:19:03.529 --> 01:19:06.170
you know, as hard as they pushed on Mark. It

01:19:06.170 --> 01:19:07.909
didn't bother him. It didn't stop him. He didn't

01:19:07.909 --> 01:19:10.510
get frustrated. He didn't get angry at him. And

01:19:10.510 --> 01:19:13.329
he said it was in no time that he was one of

01:19:13.329 --> 01:19:15.529
the Charlotte boys and was very connected with

01:19:15.529 --> 01:19:20.909
them. But as you said, an amazing group of young

01:19:20.909 --> 01:19:23.970
men just on Charlie's platoon itself, which basically

01:19:23.970 --> 01:19:29.090
is 16 guys. We had Chris Kyle. We had Leif, who

01:19:29.090 --> 01:19:31.850
was their lieutenant. We have Johnny Kim, who's

01:19:31.850 --> 01:19:37.630
now an astronaut. We had amazing other guys,

01:19:37.649 --> 01:19:39.789
and a lot of them are still deployed, so I can't

01:19:39.789 --> 01:19:42.430
mention their name. Jocko was the commander for

01:19:42.430 --> 01:19:45.449
Task Unit Bruiser. Task Unit Bruiser, not...

01:19:45.609 --> 01:19:48.510
SEAL Team 3, but basically Task Unit Bruiser,

01:19:48.569 --> 01:19:51.130
makes SEAL Team 3 the most highly decorated special

01:19:51.130 --> 01:19:55.810
forces unit ever in Iraq. Amazing group of men.

01:19:56.149 --> 01:20:00.310
And as I said, you know, I had not met any of

01:20:00.310 --> 01:20:04.430
the guys before Mark died. But that's my family

01:20:04.430 --> 01:20:08.529
now. And I remember Mark trying to explain the

01:20:08.529 --> 01:20:11.020
brotherhood. I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I

01:20:11.020 --> 01:20:13.960
get it. You're close to these guys. You've trained

01:20:13.960 --> 01:20:16.500
hard with them. You've gone into combat with

01:20:16.500 --> 01:20:20.439
them. Yeah, I get it. You're very close to them.

01:20:20.520 --> 01:20:22.520
But it's as close as your brother you grew up

01:20:22.520 --> 01:20:24.739
with for 28 years. And you say, yeah, mom, that

01:20:24.739 --> 01:20:27.699
close. And I'm like, well, let me remind you,

01:20:27.720 --> 01:20:30.000
I did not birth them. So they can't be your brothers.

01:20:30.399 --> 01:20:33.140
And we kind of left it there. And then the week

01:20:33.140 --> 01:20:36.260
that Mark died, I had five of his buddies, of

01:20:36.260 --> 01:20:38.060
course, his teammates, his Charlie brothers.

01:20:39.039 --> 01:20:43.439
We're still deployed. But his swim buddy and

01:20:43.439 --> 01:20:45.500
some of the other team guys that were close to

01:20:45.500 --> 01:20:48.979
him, I had in my home. And I saw, oh, my gosh,

01:20:49.119 --> 01:20:51.100
they love Mark as much as we do. And they're

01:20:51.100 --> 01:20:53.819
hurting just as much as we are. And that's when,

01:20:53.920 --> 01:20:56.180
for me, the brotherhood thing came alive. And

01:20:56.180 --> 01:21:01.460
I'm like, oh, my gosh, I get it. And I was very

01:21:01.460 --> 01:21:04.220
concerned for the Charlie boys that were still

01:21:04.220 --> 01:21:07.659
in the combat zone. I was trying to process through

01:21:07.659 --> 01:21:09.840
my grief and I couldn't get up and make a decision

01:21:09.840 --> 01:21:12.579
to save my life. And that's just part of the

01:21:12.579 --> 01:21:16.279
grieving process. But I was like, oh, my gosh,

01:21:16.279 --> 01:21:18.960
how are his teammates who are in the combat zone

01:21:18.960 --> 01:21:22.920
who are grieving and are probably having these

01:21:22.920 --> 01:21:25.720
same grief issues? How are they going to go out

01:21:25.720 --> 01:21:29.000
and continue their mission without jeopardizing

01:21:29.000 --> 01:21:33.600
more lives? My heart right away went to them.

01:21:33.659 --> 01:21:35.659
I got phone calls that night after they knew

01:21:35.659 --> 01:21:38.159
that we'd been notified from Iraq and started

01:21:38.159 --> 01:21:41.260
talking to them. Jocko and Leif will both tell

01:21:41.260 --> 01:21:44.479
you, they were trying to prepare themselves for

01:21:44.479 --> 01:21:47.920
those phone calls. How are we going to support

01:21:47.920 --> 01:21:51.600
Mark's mom? What are we going to do to continue

01:21:51.600 --> 01:21:55.300
to encourage her from being over in Iraq, this

01:21:55.300 --> 01:21:59.220
mom who's just lost her son? They said, I called

01:21:59.220 --> 01:22:01.439
and I was the one that was... How are you? What

01:22:01.439 --> 01:22:03.739
do you need? What can I do to support you? I'm

01:22:03.739 --> 01:22:07.939
praying for you. You know, be safe. And they

01:22:07.939 --> 01:22:12.199
did what they do well. You know, they compartmentalize

01:22:12.199 --> 01:22:16.119
that grief and pushed it aside for the safety

01:22:16.119 --> 01:22:18.779
of themselves and for the mission. And they continued

01:22:18.779 --> 01:22:22.079
their mission strong even after Mark left and

01:22:22.079 --> 01:22:25.140
continued to take it to the enemy, you know,

01:22:25.140 --> 01:22:28.659
for Mark. But and then it was when they came

01:22:28.659 --> 01:22:31.920
home. that they started their grieving process.

01:22:32.260 --> 01:22:37.220
But I had met with President Bush in October

01:22:37.220 --> 01:22:40.039
after Mark died. And as we were talking, I'd

01:22:40.039 --> 01:22:43.260
taken the team picture of Charlie Platoon. I

01:22:43.260 --> 01:22:44.939
was telling him about all his teammates because

01:22:44.939 --> 01:22:47.060
I'd gotten to know them already. We were emailing

01:22:47.060 --> 01:22:49.399
back and forth. We had phone calls regular. I

01:22:49.399 --> 01:22:51.020
was like, when's your birthday? Are you married?

01:22:51.260 --> 01:22:53.060
Do you have any kids? Where do your parents live?

01:22:53.789 --> 01:22:55.949
And so we did. We you know, those relationships

01:22:55.949 --> 01:22:58.829
started early on. And so I was telling him about

01:22:58.829 --> 01:23:00.449
all the different guys. And I said something

01:23:00.449 --> 01:23:03.329
about their commander was Jocko. And of course,

01:23:03.329 --> 01:23:06.229
I didn't know Jocko as well. You know, early

01:23:06.229 --> 01:23:08.270
on, it was more of the Charlie boys that I knew

01:23:08.270 --> 01:23:12.350
really well. But I remember President Bush said,

01:23:12.489 --> 01:23:15.649
you know, oh, yes, I've heard of Jocko. You know,

01:23:15.649 --> 01:23:18.229
so even back then, you know, he had a reputation

01:23:18.229 --> 01:23:24.109
for being a great leader. But after I left. I

01:23:24.109 --> 01:23:26.090
thought, oh, I should have asked the president

01:23:26.090 --> 01:23:29.850
to sign a platoon picture to each one of the

01:23:29.850 --> 01:23:32.649
guys. So I reached out to my contact there to

01:23:32.649 --> 01:23:34.289
see if I could still make that happen. They said,

01:23:34.369 --> 01:23:36.010
yes, of course, they'd be honored to. Give us

01:23:36.010 --> 01:23:39.109
a list of the names on each one. So I have the

01:23:39.109 --> 01:23:41.369
Charlie platoon pictures personalized to each

01:23:41.369 --> 01:23:43.270
one of the guys. And I told them I was coming

01:23:43.270 --> 01:23:46.949
over to bring them a surprise. And that was in

01:23:46.949 --> 01:23:50.750
January. And to my surprise, they put me up in

01:23:50.750 --> 01:23:54.189
the presidential suite. at the Grand Hyatt downtown

01:23:54.189 --> 01:23:58.029
San Diego. So I still think that how odd is that

01:23:58.029 --> 01:24:00.250
that I'm bringing certificates from the president

01:24:00.250 --> 01:24:02.989
that they have no idea what I'm bringing. And

01:24:02.989 --> 01:24:05.270
they put me up in the presidential suite. So

01:24:05.270 --> 01:24:07.729
that night, we were all up there in the suite.

01:24:07.850 --> 01:24:11.109
And I just shared with them that Mark was my

01:24:11.109 --> 01:24:14.510
kid who loved to give gifts. Literally, he would

01:24:14.510 --> 01:24:18.380
hunt for hours. to find that perfect gift. Most

01:24:18.380 --> 01:24:21.020
men, if it's a birthday or something like, okay,

01:24:21.079 --> 01:24:23.439
let's go bag it, tag it, got the gift. Good check

01:24:23.439 --> 01:24:26.880
done. But he really wanted it to be something

01:24:26.880 --> 01:24:30.579
very special, very meaningful. And I remember

01:24:30.579 --> 01:24:35.420
one Christmas he came home and he'd had the present

01:24:35.420 --> 01:24:37.180
and it was all, he'd had it wrapped in the store.

01:24:37.239 --> 01:24:39.060
It's all wrapped up. He's like, Oh mom, this

01:24:39.060 --> 01:24:41.899
is so cool. I can't wait for you to see it. And

01:24:42.590 --> 01:24:44.229
I said, well, put it on the Christmas tree, Mark,

01:24:44.289 --> 01:24:45.750
because you don't put any there. I won't have

01:24:45.750 --> 01:24:49.729
anything to open Christmas morning. And he said,

01:24:49.829 --> 01:24:53.170
OK, no, no, mom, you got to see this. You got

01:24:53.170 --> 01:24:54.590
to see this. I'm like, don't put it on the tree.

01:24:54.630 --> 01:24:56.829
Well, all of a sudden he's ripped it open. And

01:24:56.829 --> 01:25:00.109
it was a set of gold flatware that matched my

01:25:00.109 --> 01:25:03.210
china and golden color, not gold, solid gold.

01:25:03.390 --> 01:25:07.229
But he was so excited that for himself, he couldn't

01:25:07.229 --> 01:25:12.270
wait. And I always tell people that was. Mark's

01:25:12.270 --> 01:25:15.289
teammates were his final gift to me. And he intended

01:25:15.289 --> 01:25:17.569
for me to open it up and get to know them right

01:25:17.569 --> 01:25:20.430
away. You know, not put it aside, not wait for

01:25:20.430 --> 01:25:25.550
them to come home. And I was always telling them,

01:25:25.569 --> 01:25:30.109
you guys are Mark's final gift to me. And they

01:25:30.109 --> 01:25:32.670
hear that often for me, that that really is.

01:25:32.710 --> 01:25:36.409
And man, the priceless value. That those men

01:25:36.409 --> 01:25:40.069
are and their families to me is something you

01:25:40.069 --> 01:25:43.409
really can't explain. You know, the closeness

01:25:43.409 --> 01:25:45.470
that's there, the bond that's been developed.

01:25:45.850 --> 01:25:50.289
And it is a true blessing to have those men in

01:25:50.289 --> 01:25:54.899
my life and their families as well. Now, one

01:25:54.899 --> 01:25:57.460
thing I ask people who have actually been deployed,

01:25:57.539 --> 01:25:59.800
I don't know if you were able to get these kind

01:25:59.800 --> 01:26:01.479
of perspectives from Mark, but I think it's very

01:26:01.479 --> 01:26:05.060
important for the civilians of the world to understand

01:26:05.060 --> 01:26:08.020
what we're asking our men and women to do, or

01:26:08.020 --> 01:26:11.479
often boys and girls, and then hear their stories,

01:26:11.539 --> 01:26:15.420
hear what they saw. And so I kind of break it

01:26:15.420 --> 01:26:20.119
into two parts. Firstly, did he ever relay the

01:26:20.119 --> 01:26:24.039
horrors that he saw once he got over there? regardless

01:26:24.039 --> 01:26:26.380
of kind of politics prior that really justified

01:26:26.380 --> 01:26:29.979
them removing some horrible people from, you

01:26:29.979 --> 01:26:31.260
know, the place that they were at, obviously

01:26:31.260 --> 01:26:35.579
Ramadi in this case. Yeah. And fortunately we

01:26:35.579 --> 01:26:37.920
have that in a written letter. That was Mark's

01:26:37.920 --> 01:26:40.680
last letter home desk. He doesn't go into great

01:26:40.680 --> 01:26:43.319
detail because, and he even mentions that letter

01:26:43.319 --> 01:26:45.479
because the people involved in the, you know,

01:26:45.479 --> 01:26:48.399
security, the object for the, for the mission,

01:26:48.460 --> 01:26:53.069
but I really looked forward. To when he did come

01:26:53.069 --> 01:26:56.550
home to go into more detail about the missions

01:26:56.550 --> 01:26:59.229
and what happened, you know, specifically that

01:26:59.229 --> 01:27:01.729
he could talk about. I have heard a lot of those

01:27:01.729 --> 01:27:05.569
stories, you know, from his teammates. But he

01:27:05.569 --> 01:27:10.569
talks about that in detail in that letter, you

01:27:10.569 --> 01:27:12.750
know, the things that he saw over there and the

01:27:12.750 --> 01:27:15.390
places. And he said, we will get Iraq to stand

01:27:15.390 --> 01:27:17.350
on its own two feet. It will take longer than

01:27:17.350 --> 01:27:20.680
most expect. But he does say it's the right thing

01:27:20.680 --> 01:27:24.159
to do for us as Americans. And Mark very much

01:27:24.159 --> 01:27:26.720
believed in the mission of what he was doing

01:27:26.720 --> 01:27:28.739
over there. Mark is one of the main characters

01:27:28.739 --> 01:27:31.819
portrayed in the movie American Sniper. And in

01:27:31.819 --> 01:27:34.060
that movie, I mean, they threw him under the

01:27:34.060 --> 01:27:35.640
bus the way they portrayed him. They make it

01:27:35.640 --> 01:27:36.979
sound like he doesn't believe in the mission.

01:27:37.039 --> 01:27:38.779
One point he asked Chris, Chris, I don't even

01:27:38.779 --> 01:27:40.979
know, or makes the statement, I don't even know

01:27:40.979 --> 01:27:42.539
if I believe in the mission over here. And that

01:27:42.539 --> 01:27:44.699
could not have been further from the truth. You

01:27:44.699 --> 01:27:46.439
know, so it breaks my heart that he was portrayed

01:27:46.439 --> 01:27:49.689
that way. I still think it's a great movie in

01:27:49.689 --> 01:27:52.029
that, you know, and obviously it's Chris's story

01:27:52.029 --> 01:27:55.609
that Bradley Cooper did an amazing job, you know,

01:27:55.609 --> 01:27:58.949
portraying Chris. It is a movie. It is not a

01:27:58.949 --> 01:28:01.909
documentary. I think it gives a great glimpse

01:28:01.909 --> 01:28:05.550
into the decisions our troops have to make over

01:28:05.550 --> 01:28:08.350
there, what they endure, a glimpse into that.

01:28:08.850 --> 01:28:11.390
I think it does a great job showing some of the

01:28:11.390 --> 01:28:14.609
issues the family deals with back home and most

01:28:14.609 --> 01:28:16.229
of all, the importance to support them when they

01:28:16.229 --> 01:28:18.550
get back home. I had been over to Iraq twice.

01:28:18.550 --> 01:28:20.529
I've been in the combat zone. I went on a patrol

01:28:20.529 --> 01:28:22.050
with the first and the fourth cab three different

01:28:22.050 --> 01:28:25.250
times, was not being fired on. Nothing was happening

01:28:25.250 --> 01:28:27.670
around me. Not that it couldn't have been, you

01:28:27.670 --> 01:28:29.989
know, something could have happened, but nothing

01:28:29.989 --> 01:28:32.689
was happening when I was out there. I know we

01:28:32.689 --> 01:28:36.789
did go to one of the sheikh's house and the colonel

01:28:36.789 --> 01:28:39.510
went inside. We waited out in the vehicle, but

01:28:39.510 --> 01:28:41.750
I, ooh, the back of my neck, the spidey senses

01:28:41.750 --> 01:28:43.810
and the hair went up on the back of my neck and

01:28:43.810 --> 01:28:47.220
something. Something potentially was going on

01:28:47.220 --> 01:28:51.640
around us. Nothing did happen. So I got a glimpse,

01:28:51.800 --> 01:28:55.079
a glimpse into the lay of the land, what it's

01:28:55.079 --> 01:28:58.199
like over there, the smells, the sounds, the

01:28:58.199 --> 01:29:01.699
different things they see, their living conditions.

01:29:02.060 --> 01:29:05.180
I got a glimpse into that. And what a privilege

01:29:05.180 --> 01:29:08.859
that I had the opportunity to be able to do that.

01:29:09.689 --> 01:29:11.390
much greater understanding as I work with the

01:29:11.390 --> 01:29:13.729
troops as well, was able to go over there and

01:29:13.729 --> 01:29:16.369
love on the troops on behalf of the majority

01:29:16.369 --> 01:29:18.909
of, you know, civilians that can't get over there

01:29:18.909 --> 01:29:22.109
and the mom spouses and be able to do that, encourage

01:29:22.109 --> 01:29:27.630
them. But it's amazing what we ask our men and

01:29:27.630 --> 01:29:30.569
women to do in the military, what we train them

01:29:30.569 --> 01:29:33.590
to do, the things they endure and that they see

01:29:33.590 --> 01:29:38.260
over there. And then. you know as an american

01:29:38.260 --> 01:29:41.000
sniper the mission of supporting them when they

01:29:41.000 --> 01:29:44.699
come back home and take care of them but um i

01:29:44.699 --> 01:29:47.119
guess my conversations with mark into detail

01:29:47.119 --> 01:29:50.979
will have to wait till i get to heaven well conversely

01:29:50.979 --> 01:29:53.199
the other side of the coin as well is the the

01:29:53.199 --> 01:29:56.560
humanity they see because again you know if you're

01:29:56.560 --> 01:30:01.000
not really Being quiet and listening to a lot

01:30:01.000 --> 01:30:03.380
of the people that are over there, there's almost

01:30:03.380 --> 01:30:05.260
this illusion that, oh, we're at war with Iraq.

01:30:05.479 --> 01:30:08.060
We're at war with Afghanistan. We're not. We're

01:30:08.060 --> 01:30:10.500
trying to hunt some horrible, horrible people

01:30:10.500 --> 01:30:13.039
that are living in this country that are terrorizing

01:30:13.039 --> 01:30:16.420
their own people. So did he ever talk about elements

01:30:16.420 --> 01:30:18.880
of compassion, kindness, humanity that he saw

01:30:18.880 --> 01:30:22.260
of the regular Iraqi people amongst this horrendous

01:30:22.260 --> 01:30:25.520
war zone they were in? He did. Again, I would

01:30:25.520 --> 01:30:27.579
encourage your listeners to go to our website

01:30:27.579 --> 01:30:30.180
at americasmightywarriors .org and read that

01:30:30.180 --> 01:30:33.279
letter because there is so much wisdom in that.

01:30:33.359 --> 01:30:36.640
He covers, as I said before, the things that

01:30:36.640 --> 01:30:41.859
he saw and did over there, the importance of

01:30:41.859 --> 01:30:45.079
the random acts of kindness. There's so much

01:30:45.079 --> 01:30:47.460
in there. He says, a lot of things I saw and

01:30:47.460 --> 01:30:49.520
heard, I'll never talk about. He said, I went

01:30:49.520 --> 01:30:53.510
into a hospital. I wouldn't even be able to stand

01:30:53.510 --> 01:30:56.989
the smell, let alone get medication and help

01:30:56.989 --> 01:30:59.550
from. He said, we are helping the Iraqi people.

01:30:59.829 --> 01:31:02.850
I saw that firsthand when I was there, how much

01:31:02.850 --> 01:31:06.189
the Iraqis were grateful that we were there and

01:31:06.189 --> 01:31:08.350
the support. That's not what we saw on the mainstream

01:31:08.350 --> 01:31:12.010
media. And as you said, we're not at war with

01:31:12.010 --> 01:31:16.609
Iraq. It's the global war on terror. It's the

01:31:16.609 --> 01:31:18.369
terrorists. If the terrorists would all stay

01:31:18.369 --> 01:31:21.149
in one place, we could. Take care of them there.

01:31:21.229 --> 01:31:22.930
Or if we had rules of engagement at different

01:31:22.930 --> 01:31:24.649
times, it allowed us to do what we needed to

01:31:24.649 --> 01:31:26.970
do. We'd long been done and gone over there,

01:31:27.050 --> 01:31:29.310
but we won't get involved in the politics of

01:31:29.310 --> 01:31:36.289
that. But it's just, it's phenomenal. The wisdom

01:31:36.289 --> 01:31:39.210
in that letter from Mark. And then he ends that

01:31:39.210 --> 01:31:42.369
letter with, to my family and friends, do me

01:31:42.369 --> 01:31:47.170
a favor. Pass on the kindness, the love, the

01:31:47.170 --> 01:31:49.960
precious gift of human life. We got one of the

01:31:49.960 --> 01:31:53.500
toughest warriors in America, Silver Star recipient,

01:31:53.960 --> 01:31:58.720
you know, who then is doing things, you know,

01:31:58.739 --> 01:32:01.739
that you that I wouldn't want to do. You guys

01:32:01.739 --> 01:32:04.279
that have served to do some terrible stuff and

01:32:04.279 --> 01:32:07.159
have to do that to defend us. But most of us

01:32:07.159 --> 01:32:09.720
wouldn't do that. And yet one of the most compassionate,

01:32:09.819 --> 01:32:12.560
caring men you will ever know. You know, what

01:32:12.560 --> 01:32:17.600
a contrast. And I see that in so many, you know,

01:32:17.600 --> 01:32:20.289
that. The team guys I know, I see that in Jocko's

01:32:20.289 --> 01:32:22.449
life. I see that in Leif's life. You know, I

01:32:22.449 --> 01:32:25.909
see that in so many of Mark's teammates, some

01:32:25.909 --> 01:32:28.369
of the toughest warriors we have in America and

01:32:28.369 --> 01:32:30.390
some of the most kind, caring, compassionate.

01:32:30.489 --> 01:32:32.369
And, you know, what a contrast. God did a great

01:32:32.369 --> 01:32:34.689
job when he put that all together in these guys.

01:32:35.310 --> 01:32:36.949
Yeah, well, I think that's such an important

01:32:36.949 --> 01:32:39.770
perspective to hear as well, because I talk about

01:32:39.770 --> 01:32:42.489
this with some of the mental health issues, especially

01:32:42.489 --> 01:32:45.539
when people struggle transitioning out. Because

01:32:45.539 --> 01:32:48.079
we are a yin and yang, you know, and I think

01:32:48.079 --> 01:32:51.199
that the hard part is obviously, you know, carrying

01:32:51.199 --> 01:32:53.699
a weapon, going into a fire, running towards

01:32:53.699 --> 01:32:56.060
gunfire as a police officer. That's when you're

01:32:56.060 --> 01:32:58.779
a flow state and you need to be that tough side,

01:32:58.899 --> 01:33:01.779
that warrior. But the reason we enter these professions

01:33:01.779 --> 01:33:04.560
was compassion. And I'm sure if you really broke

01:33:04.560 --> 01:33:06.979
down, you know, Mark's background, he wanted

01:33:06.979 --> 01:33:08.539
to be protected. He saw what happened to his

01:33:08.539 --> 01:33:10.760
mother in her timeline and wanted to make sure

01:33:10.760 --> 01:33:14.000
the buck stopped there. So that's that soft part.

01:33:14.590 --> 01:33:18.529
And so when I think some of us kind of allow

01:33:18.529 --> 01:33:20.430
ourselves to be pulled into the illusion that

01:33:20.430 --> 01:33:23.210
we're all the hard, that there is no soft. And,

01:33:23.270 --> 01:33:25.489
you know, so I think it's so important as a warrior

01:33:25.489 --> 01:33:28.609
to also be that compassionate person and not

01:33:28.609 --> 01:33:30.789
let yourself start to get that compassion fatigue

01:33:30.789 --> 01:33:33.470
that we see in our profession, certainly just

01:33:33.470 --> 01:33:36.649
through exhaustion and burnout. But yeah, I mean,

01:33:36.649 --> 01:33:40.109
that's exactly to me what a man is. Yes, at times

01:33:40.109 --> 01:33:42.939
you need to be. hard you need to be tough but

01:33:42.939 --> 01:33:45.039
other times you need to be compassionate and

01:33:45.039 --> 01:33:46.619
it's beautiful that mark was able to portray

01:33:46.619 --> 01:33:49.779
that in his last letter to you yeah yeah what

01:33:49.779 --> 01:33:53.159
a gift what a gift that was and that came by

01:33:53.159 --> 01:33:57.500
email um it probably there were maybe 12 13 people

01:33:57.500 --> 01:33:59.979
on that email thread close you know family and

01:33:59.979 --> 01:34:04.539
friends and had no idea no idea when he sent

01:34:04.539 --> 01:34:07.739
that letter out but literally millions and millions

01:34:07.739 --> 01:34:10.779
of lives and i don't exaggerate that number would

01:34:10.779 --> 01:34:14.939
be changed by that letter. Absolutely. Well,

01:34:15.039 --> 01:34:17.960
talking about that then. So August 2nd was another

01:34:17.960 --> 01:34:22.260
pivotal chapter in your already turbulent life.

01:34:23.779 --> 01:34:26.039
It's the worst case scenario, whether it's in

01:34:26.039 --> 01:34:27.479
the military, whether it's in the first responder

01:34:27.479 --> 01:34:30.000
community, the battalion chief vehicle rolling

01:34:30.000 --> 01:34:32.680
up. A good friend of mine was just in Miami at

01:34:32.680 --> 01:34:34.560
the collapse and had to do the death notifications

01:34:34.560 --> 01:34:38.000
of every single person who was identified as

01:34:38.000 --> 01:34:42.300
deceased in that building. So tell me about that

01:34:42.300 --> 01:34:45.359
day and again, that grieving process once again

01:34:45.359 --> 01:34:51.140
that you had to endure. Yeah. So I knew when

01:34:51.140 --> 01:34:55.260
Mark, he visited me before he deployed and his

01:34:55.260 --> 01:34:57.340
birthday's in March. That's, you know, about

01:34:57.340 --> 01:34:59.520
the time frame they were deploying. I'd taken

01:34:59.520 --> 01:35:03.199
him down the street here to Rangers, Royals,

01:35:03.199 --> 01:35:07.649
spring training baseball game. After the seventh

01:35:07.649 --> 01:35:09.449
inning, they put up on the marker board, happy

01:35:09.449 --> 01:35:11.710
28th birthday, Mark. Have a safe deployment.

01:35:11.970 --> 01:35:17.470
Love, Mom. And when he was leaving after he'd

01:35:17.470 --> 01:35:21.829
been here, I knew, I knew I didn't feel good

01:35:21.829 --> 01:35:25.050
about it. And I'm not a worrier. I'm not a fretter.

01:35:25.090 --> 01:35:27.489
That is not my personality. That is just not

01:35:27.489 --> 01:35:32.050
who I am. But as he pulled away, drove away in

01:35:32.050 --> 01:35:34.510
the car, I looked at my son, Chris, and I said,

01:35:34.529 --> 01:35:37.619
man, I don't feel good about this. And he said,

01:35:37.680 --> 01:35:39.619
neither do I, Mom. And he's a lot like me, not

01:35:39.619 --> 01:35:44.300
a worrier. That's not his personality. And I

01:35:44.300 --> 01:35:48.640
remember sharing my Bible study with some of

01:35:48.640 --> 01:35:50.840
my friends there. Just please be praying. You

01:35:50.840 --> 01:35:52.460
know, this just didn't feel right. And they're

01:35:52.460 --> 01:35:54.899
like, no, no, no, he'll be fine. You're just

01:35:54.899 --> 01:35:57.640
a mom whose son's deployed. You know, this is

01:35:57.640 --> 01:36:02.180
natural, you know. I went about life. It's not

01:36:02.180 --> 01:36:04.899
like every day that a black car turned in a corner

01:36:04.899 --> 01:36:07.439
of my house. I would look and go, oh, my gosh,

01:36:07.439 --> 01:36:09.859
is today the day? Is this it? Is it time now?

01:36:10.000 --> 01:36:12.819
You know, I didn't. You know, I still continue

01:36:12.819 --> 01:36:16.760
to live life and prayed more for Mark probably

01:36:16.760 --> 01:36:19.619
than I prayed for anything else in my life. Does

01:36:19.619 --> 01:36:23.600
that mean God didn't answer my prayers? No. God

01:36:23.600 --> 01:36:26.760
heard my prayers. There was just a different

01:36:26.760 --> 01:36:32.779
end to the story there. They, Mark had died earlier

01:36:32.779 --> 01:36:35.260
in the day and they were trying to locate me

01:36:35.260 --> 01:36:39.260
up in Oregon where I lived. I had moved down

01:36:39.260 --> 01:36:43.180
here just previously during his deployment or

01:36:43.180 --> 01:36:45.039
during his, while he was in the military, he

01:36:45.039 --> 01:36:47.779
hadn't deployed yet. And I know he changed the

01:36:47.779 --> 01:36:49.579
paperwork. I remember getting the phone calls

01:36:49.579 --> 01:36:51.760
and mom, what's that new address and getting

01:36:51.760 --> 01:36:53.779
all the pertinent information for the paperwork.

01:36:54.340 --> 01:36:57.439
But if they would have found me that morning

01:36:57.439 --> 01:37:00.350
at the same. time that, you know, shortly after

01:37:00.350 --> 01:37:03.069
Mark had died, I would have been alone by myself.

01:37:04.090 --> 01:37:06.710
And anyway, they've been looking for me for about

01:37:06.710 --> 01:37:08.869
eight hours up at my property in Oregon that

01:37:08.869 --> 01:37:13.350
I still did own, but didn't live there. And finally,

01:37:13.390 --> 01:37:14.930
they've gone to one of the neighbor's house and

01:37:14.930 --> 01:37:16.210
said, well, she doesn't live here anymore. She

01:37:16.210 --> 01:37:18.470
lives down in Arizona. At this point, they're

01:37:18.470 --> 01:37:20.449
afraid that I'm going to hear on the nightly

01:37:20.449 --> 01:37:24.369
news, you know, about Mark. So typically in the

01:37:24.369 --> 01:37:28.630
SEAL community, we have a SEAL CACO officer that

01:37:28.630 --> 01:37:32.590
alerts us along with usually someone from that

01:37:32.590 --> 01:37:36.010
team or a close teammate that goes. But because

01:37:36.010 --> 01:37:39.189
of the concern for the timeline, I'm close to

01:37:39.189 --> 01:37:41.250
Luke Air Force Base and there's a small Navy

01:37:41.250 --> 01:37:43.229
detachment there. So they just sent the CACO

01:37:43.229 --> 01:37:47.670
officer from there. They got to my house and

01:37:47.670 --> 01:37:51.390
I was not home. And they waited for a while there

01:37:51.390 --> 01:37:53.609
and finally knocked on my neighbor's door and

01:37:53.609 --> 01:37:56.409
said, do you know where Debbie is? And her husband

01:37:56.409 --> 01:37:58.550
had served in the military. So when she saw them

01:37:58.550 --> 01:38:00.930
in uniform, she knew something wasn't right.

01:38:02.090 --> 01:38:03.770
And she said, well, I don't have Debbie's cell

01:38:03.770 --> 01:38:05.710
phone, but I know her son works down the street

01:38:05.710 --> 01:38:09.630
at Lowe's. So they reached out to Chris there

01:38:09.630 --> 01:38:12.149
at Lowe's. Of course, wouldn't tell him he served

01:38:12.149 --> 01:38:14.590
in the Marines. He knew, you know, when you see

01:38:14.590 --> 01:38:17.590
them. If they're wounded, you'll get a phone

01:38:17.590 --> 01:38:19.649
call and they'll get you to them. They don't

01:38:19.649 --> 01:38:24.130
come to you. And so he called me. I was actually

01:38:24.130 --> 01:38:26.369
at my Bible study that night. We were celebrating

01:38:26.369 --> 01:38:28.869
my birthday, which had been the week before,

01:38:28.989 --> 01:38:32.729
but we had not gathered. So after our meeting,

01:38:32.829 --> 01:38:34.810
we were celebrating having cake and ice cream.

01:38:34.989 --> 01:38:37.810
And my girlfriend had given me one of the willow

01:38:37.810 --> 01:38:39.729
tree angels. And those are the wooden angels

01:38:39.729 --> 01:38:42.430
with the wire wings that are a collector item.

01:38:42.510 --> 01:38:44.310
And each one has a different character quality.

01:38:45.180 --> 01:38:51.979
And the one that she gave me was courage. And

01:38:51.979 --> 01:38:56.159
she said, you just remind, you're such a woman

01:38:56.159 --> 01:38:57.699
of courage with all that you've been through

01:38:57.699 --> 01:39:01.500
in your life. And little did we know how much

01:39:01.500 --> 01:39:05.640
more courage was going to be required. And when

01:39:05.640 --> 01:39:08.840
my phone rang, and usually I always turn my phone

01:39:08.840 --> 01:39:12.100
on silent when we're there. And I hadn't that

01:39:12.100 --> 01:39:14.659
night for obviously there was a reason it was

01:39:14.659 --> 01:39:17.420
not supposed to be on silent. And Chris called

01:39:17.420 --> 01:39:20.840
and there was nothing in his voice to alert me.

01:39:21.100 --> 01:39:23.920
There was not. He wasn't talking too fast. He

01:39:23.920 --> 01:39:26.840
wasn't crying. He wasn't loud. Nothing. Just

01:39:26.840 --> 01:39:28.859
the normal voice. And he's like, hey, mom, where

01:39:28.859 --> 01:39:32.180
are you? I'm like, well, Wednesday night. I'm

01:39:32.180 --> 01:39:34.659
a small group. Why? What's up? And he goes, how

01:39:34.659 --> 01:39:37.300
long will it take you to get home? And I thought,

01:39:37.380 --> 01:39:41.180
well, that's an odd question. I said. I don't

01:39:41.180 --> 01:39:43.300
know. And of course, I'm starting to know something's

01:39:43.300 --> 01:39:45.460
not right at this point. I said, I don't know,

01:39:45.520 --> 01:39:47.960
five minutes, seven minutes. Why? What's up?

01:39:49.159 --> 01:39:52.439
And he said, you just need to come home. And

01:39:52.439 --> 01:39:55.680
as I said before, I knew when Mark left. It wasn't

01:39:55.680 --> 01:39:58.760
going to be good. And I grabbed my purse and

01:39:58.760 --> 01:40:00.840
I told my friends, please be praying something's

01:40:00.840 --> 01:40:03.659
not right. And I got in my car and there was

01:40:03.659 --> 01:40:05.979
a song from my past that said, I put my hope

01:40:05.979 --> 01:40:09.319
in you, O Lord. Trusting you, I will not be shaken.

01:40:10.140 --> 01:40:12.840
knowing that you will see me through, I put my

01:40:12.840 --> 01:40:16.119
hope in you. And I just sang that over and over

01:40:16.119 --> 01:40:18.939
and over. And I got to the main intersection

01:40:18.939 --> 01:40:22.640
by my house, and there was probably three or

01:40:22.640 --> 01:40:25.359
four fire trucks and several ambulances and several

01:40:25.359 --> 01:40:28.439
police cars. And I remember thinking as I pulled

01:40:28.439 --> 01:40:31.260
up on that intersection, my house blew up. That's

01:40:31.260 --> 01:40:34.000
all that's wrong. My house blew up. And trust

01:40:34.000 --> 01:40:36.279
me, I would rather have lost all of my earthly

01:40:36.279 --> 01:40:39.449
possessions and still have Mark. And to this

01:40:39.449 --> 01:40:41.789
day, I can't tell you how I got through that

01:40:41.789 --> 01:40:44.109
intersection, but somehow I found myself back

01:40:44.109 --> 01:40:47.770
in my neighborhood. And there were no more emergency

01:40:47.770 --> 01:40:52.270
vehicles. And I came back to knowing what was

01:40:52.270 --> 01:40:55.090
going to face me when I got home. And when I

01:40:55.090 --> 01:40:58.029
turned the corner to my street, I expected to

01:40:58.029 --> 01:41:00.510
see a black car parked out front. And there was

01:41:00.510 --> 01:41:02.970
no black car parked out front. They parked way

01:41:02.970 --> 01:41:04.430
down the street. It wasn't even a black car.

01:41:04.729 --> 01:41:06.550
I guess I've watched too many stinking movies.

01:41:08.109 --> 01:41:10.590
my son Christopher was on the sidewalk just pacing

01:41:10.590 --> 01:41:14.050
back and forth and I parked facing the wrong

01:41:14.050 --> 01:41:15.989
direction so when I stepped out of the car I'd

01:41:15.989 --> 01:41:18.670
be right there on the sidewalk and I got out

01:41:18.670 --> 01:41:22.630
and he said mom the navy's here and I remember

01:41:22.630 --> 01:41:26.149
falling on his shoulder and just crying and saying

01:41:26.149 --> 01:41:32.470
no no and um we walked inside together and the

01:41:32.470 --> 01:41:36.510
Keiko officer and uh Chaplain, which I didn't

01:41:36.510 --> 01:41:39.229
even know was a chaplain until years later. But

01:41:39.229 --> 01:41:41.909
they were standing inside and they said, we can

01:41:41.909 --> 01:41:44.609
tell by being in your home that you're a woman

01:41:44.609 --> 01:41:47.109
of faith. And you're going to need to rely on

01:41:47.109 --> 01:41:48.829
that faith for what we're about to tell you.

01:41:50.029 --> 01:41:52.270
Your son, Mark Allen Lee, has been killed in

01:41:52.270 --> 01:41:58.329
action. And as a parent, that's the most devastating

01:41:58.329 --> 01:42:02.710
news you could ever receive. And I remember standing

01:42:02.710 --> 01:42:06.609
there and trying to. Except that, you know, God

01:42:06.609 --> 01:42:09.670
in his grace allows us to be so numb in the beginning

01:42:09.670 --> 01:42:12.710
that we can't, we can't process it. We can't

01:42:12.710 --> 01:42:15.850
accept it. Because we'd all go, you know, commit

01:42:15.850 --> 01:42:17.710
hair carry and jump off a cliff somewhere if

01:42:17.710 --> 01:42:20.369
we had to immediately accept that and process

01:42:20.369 --> 01:42:26.369
that. And I remember that we talked for a little

01:42:26.369 --> 01:42:31.779
bit and they left. Went and sat on the couch

01:42:31.779 --> 01:42:34.060
and I had a long skinny window next to my door.

01:42:34.159 --> 01:42:36.619
I looked outside and my friends from my small

01:42:36.619 --> 01:42:38.880
group were standing outside. I'm like, what the

01:42:38.880 --> 01:42:42.000
heck are you doing out there? Get inside. I need

01:42:42.000 --> 01:42:46.520
you inside. And so I motioned them in and, you

01:42:46.520 --> 01:42:49.600
know, shared about Mark. And, you know, we cried

01:42:49.600 --> 01:42:52.159
and we prayed and we talked and, you know, we

01:42:52.159 --> 01:42:57.850
cried and they stayed for several hours. It,

01:42:57.850 --> 01:43:00.109
you know, got to be close to midnight and they

01:43:00.109 --> 01:43:03.109
left. And as I said, I started to get phone calls

01:43:03.109 --> 01:43:07.689
from the guys in Iraq. And my son Christopher

01:43:07.689 --> 01:43:09.670
said, Mom, I'm going to stay here tonight. I

01:43:09.670 --> 01:43:11.970
said, thanks, son. He had met his wife when he

01:43:11.970 --> 01:43:15.670
was in Okinawa and she had gone home for six

01:43:15.670 --> 01:43:17.869
weeks. She got to go home every summer to be

01:43:17.869 --> 01:43:20.449
with her family. And so he decided not to tell

01:43:20.449 --> 01:43:24.119
her. Because both my daughter -in -law and my

01:43:24.119 --> 01:43:26.199
daughter the year before had both lost babies

01:43:26.199 --> 01:43:28.300
at about five or five and a half months along.

01:43:28.460 --> 01:43:31.779
And they both had just got pregnant. So we were

01:43:31.779 --> 01:43:35.300
concerned that, you know, the stress could cause

01:43:35.300 --> 01:43:37.699
miscarriages. So he decided not to tell her.

01:43:37.800 --> 01:43:40.779
How he did that, I have no idea. You know, the

01:43:40.779 --> 01:43:43.039
toughest news, he's ever had to endure as well.

01:43:43.640 --> 01:43:46.079
And he has conversations with his wife and is

01:43:46.079 --> 01:43:47.800
trying to act like everything's just normal.

01:43:47.899 --> 01:43:50.390
He knew she was coming home. You know, she would

01:43:50.390 --> 01:43:52.329
be home just before the funeral. But for, you

01:43:52.329 --> 01:43:54.229
know, that was six more days out or however long

01:43:54.229 --> 01:43:58.149
it was. And so he said, Mom, I'm going to stay

01:43:58.149 --> 01:44:00.210
here tonight. I said, thank you, son. And he

01:44:00.210 --> 01:44:02.329
said, I'm going to go try to get some sleep.

01:44:02.369 --> 01:44:05.170
I said, OK. Well, I knew there was no way sleep

01:44:05.170 --> 01:44:08.789
was coming to me that night. And I'd mentioned

01:44:08.789 --> 01:44:11.430
that I'd been a widow at that point for 12 years.

01:44:12.189 --> 01:44:14.890
And I just wanted somebody to hold me and tell

01:44:14.890 --> 01:44:17.949
me it was going to be OK. And there wasn't anybody

01:44:17.949 --> 01:44:22.539
there. to do that. But I didn't know who could

01:44:22.539 --> 01:44:26.140
do that for me. I knew God promises to be a husband

01:44:26.140 --> 01:44:28.859
to the widow and a father to the fatherless.

01:44:29.020 --> 01:44:31.439
And I'd seen him do that over and over for me

01:44:31.439 --> 01:44:35.100
in numerous different ways. And so I knew where

01:44:35.100 --> 01:44:37.680
my strength was going to come from. And I went

01:44:37.680 --> 01:44:40.039
and grabbed my Bible to sit down and just read

01:44:40.039 --> 01:44:43.260
and get some comfort there. And it opened to

01:44:43.260 --> 01:44:46.949
Psalms 27. It starts out, the Lord is my light

01:44:46.949 --> 01:44:49.869
and my salvation. Whom shall I fear? The Lord

01:44:49.869 --> 01:44:52.210
is the strength of my life. Of whom shall I be

01:44:52.210 --> 01:44:55.550
afraid? When the wicked came against me to eat

01:44:55.550 --> 01:44:59.409
up my flesh, my enemies and my foes, they stumbled

01:44:59.409 --> 01:45:03.029
and they fell. Though an army may encamp against

01:45:03.029 --> 01:45:06.250
me, my heart shall not fear. Though war may rise

01:45:06.250 --> 01:45:10.060
against me. And I'm reading this thinking. Okay,

01:45:10.140 --> 01:45:12.760
this is David. This is thousands of years ago

01:45:12.760 --> 01:45:14.979
this was written. But this could have been written

01:45:14.979 --> 01:45:19.899
to me today for my circumstances. Excuse me.

01:45:20.539 --> 01:45:24.739
And I read through the bottom of it. And the

01:45:24.739 --> 01:45:26.659
second to last verse said, I would have lost

01:45:26.659 --> 01:45:29.779
hope if I had not believed. I would see the goodness

01:45:29.779 --> 01:45:33.279
of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait on

01:45:33.279 --> 01:45:37.340
the Lord. Be of good courage. And he will strengthen

01:45:37.340 --> 01:45:41.050
your heart. Wait, I say. And I saw that courage

01:45:41.050 --> 01:45:43.649
thing. I'm like, okay, wait a minute. I got the

01:45:43.649 --> 01:45:46.689
courage angel earlier in the night. And now you're

01:45:46.689 --> 01:45:50.130
reminding me again, courage. Okay, God, I got

01:45:50.130 --> 01:45:54.170
it. I will have courage, not on my own strength,

01:45:54.229 --> 01:45:56.970
because I know you're with me and because I know

01:45:56.970 --> 01:46:00.609
you will be with me through the end. And I could

01:46:00.609 --> 01:46:04.470
not have felt and embrace and felt someone holding

01:46:04.470 --> 01:46:07.689
me closer. Then I felt God holding me at that

01:46:07.689 --> 01:46:10.109
moment that night as if he'd have physically

01:46:10.109 --> 01:46:12.810
been there. And again, for me, that was just

01:46:12.810 --> 01:46:15.569
that reminder. He saw he knew what I needed and

01:46:15.569 --> 01:46:18.489
he was comforting me at that very moment in my

01:46:18.489 --> 01:46:23.829
my deepest pain. And it has been a process. Like

01:46:23.829 --> 01:46:25.909
I said, you know, the beginning days of grief,

01:46:26.069 --> 01:46:29.090
they are days. There are days when you can't

01:46:29.090 --> 01:46:31.029
get out of bed and all you want to do is cry.

01:46:33.069 --> 01:46:35.409
And I didn't sleep for several days. It wasn't

01:46:35.409 --> 01:46:37.930
a hell week. It was a hell week in my life, but

01:46:37.930 --> 01:46:41.029
it wasn't, you know, an entire week that I didn't

01:46:41.029 --> 01:46:43.010
sleep. But I had several days that I really couldn't

01:46:43.010 --> 01:46:47.729
sleep. And it just began that long process of

01:46:47.729 --> 01:46:51.569
grief and accepting. And, you know, I wanted

01:46:51.569 --> 01:46:52.949
to think for a long time. He still deployed.

01:46:53.069 --> 01:46:56.470
He still deployed. You know, that's what my head

01:46:56.470 --> 01:47:00.149
wanted to tell me or my heart. I guess my heart

01:47:00.149 --> 01:47:02.170
wanted to tell me the head was the reality of.

01:47:02.560 --> 01:47:06.140
Yeah, no, he's not coming back home. But it's

01:47:06.140 --> 01:47:08.399
not like one day I ever woke up and said, I'm

01:47:08.399 --> 01:47:11.000
going to start a foundation. You know, one thing

01:47:11.000 --> 01:47:13.460
just led to another. And I wanted to honor Mark.

01:47:13.560 --> 01:47:15.899
I wanted to thank our veterans who were still

01:47:15.899 --> 01:47:20.439
serving. And Mark's letter reminded me, you know,

01:47:20.520 --> 01:47:22.819
when's the last time you paid for a stranger's

01:47:22.819 --> 01:47:24.800
cup of coffee or meal or tank of gas? I could

01:47:24.800 --> 01:47:27.119
do that. In the midst of my grief, that was a

01:47:27.119 --> 01:47:29.840
little task that I could go do. I could thank

01:47:29.840 --> 01:47:33.109
a veteran. And one thing led to another. And

01:47:33.109 --> 01:47:35.210
I would just happen to be in Washington, D .C.

01:47:35.210 --> 01:47:36.789
when he had another Navy SEAL that was flown

01:47:36.789 --> 01:47:40.189
in with their face blown off or their legs blown

01:47:40.189 --> 01:47:43.010
off. And I just happened to be in Washington,

01:47:43.149 --> 01:47:46.109
D .C. when you live in Arizona. God placed me

01:47:46.109 --> 01:47:49.430
there just for that time. And that was where

01:47:49.430 --> 01:47:52.390
he gifted me to be able to support in those tragic

01:47:52.390 --> 01:47:55.260
times. to encourage them and be there for them.

01:47:55.340 --> 01:47:58.260
I went to so many funerals. Everyone after Mark

01:47:58.260 --> 01:48:00.180
died, I'd be there at those funerals to support

01:48:00.180 --> 01:48:02.880
those families. The first one was Mike Monsoor.

01:48:02.960 --> 01:48:06.159
Seven weeks after Mark was killed, we lost Mikey

01:48:06.159 --> 01:48:09.079
Monsoor, who jumped on a grenade to save his

01:48:09.079 --> 01:48:12.000
teammates and was awarded the Medal of Honor

01:48:12.000 --> 01:48:16.850
for his heroic actions. And there wasn't. Any

01:48:16.850 --> 01:48:19.689
other gold star mom there to walk alongside me

01:48:19.689 --> 01:48:21.329
in the beginning, Mark's teammates were still

01:48:21.329 --> 01:48:23.569
deployed. That was, you know, my major support.

01:48:24.010 --> 01:48:27.189
We had support, you know, from up to the funeral.

01:48:27.390 --> 01:48:30.630
But then everybody goes on their, they go back

01:48:30.630 --> 01:48:33.189
to their normal lives. They go on their way.

01:48:34.010 --> 01:48:36.590
And I'm not someone to sit around and feel sorry

01:48:36.590 --> 01:48:38.869
for myself and say, hey, why are you here helping

01:48:38.869 --> 01:48:40.810
me? Why are you supporting me? But it's like,

01:48:40.850 --> 01:48:43.470
oh, I can sure make sure no one else has to go

01:48:43.470 --> 01:48:45.829
through this alone. I didn't expect that it would

01:48:45.829 --> 01:48:49.229
be that soon after Mark died, but I knew I needed

01:48:49.229 --> 01:48:51.750
to be there to support Mikey's family. I didn't

01:48:51.750 --> 01:48:54.470
know what I was going to do exactly other than

01:48:54.470 --> 01:48:57.510
be there giving a hug and let them know I'm a

01:48:57.510 --> 01:48:59.930
few steps ahead of you and I'm still alive. My

01:48:59.930 --> 01:49:04.310
heart literally, not was it just emotionally

01:49:04.310 --> 01:49:07.789
broken, it was physically, it hurt. My heart

01:49:07.789 --> 01:49:11.739
really hurt going through that. And the stress

01:49:11.739 --> 01:49:14.239
causes a lot of sickness, you know, in that first

01:49:14.239 --> 01:49:17.220
year for people who've gone through major tragedy

01:49:17.220 --> 01:49:22.619
like that. But it just one thing led to another.

01:49:22.800 --> 01:49:24.939
God would push me another step forward, have

01:49:24.939 --> 01:49:27.020
me be in another place. And pretty soon I'm like,

01:49:27.119 --> 01:49:29.920
OK, I think this is a life mission that God's

01:49:29.920 --> 01:49:31.439
trying to tell me to do. And I don't have unlimited

01:49:31.439 --> 01:49:34.100
financial resources that I can just do this out

01:49:34.100 --> 01:49:38.079
of my own pocket. And so then we started America's

01:49:38.079 --> 01:49:41.250
Mighty Warriors to be able to. support our troops

01:49:41.250 --> 01:49:43.710
our veterans and other gold star families and

01:49:43.710 --> 01:49:47.289
it has been a tough mission that god's asked

01:49:47.289 --> 01:49:49.569
me to walk but he's equipped me and given me

01:49:49.569 --> 01:49:53.750
exactly what i need to do and it is so rewarding

01:49:53.750 --> 01:49:58.149
you know to be able to do that and support those

01:49:58.149 --> 01:50:00.449
who pay a dear price for the freedoms we enjoy

01:50:00.449 --> 01:50:05.649
every day well i just want to start again by

01:50:05.649 --> 01:50:08.609
by thanking you for for telling you know mark's

01:50:08.609 --> 01:50:10.350
story and your story because i think this is

01:50:10.350 --> 01:50:13.649
what people need to hear as well me again as

01:50:13.649 --> 01:50:16.470
a civilian not in the military from the outside

01:50:16.470 --> 01:50:21.050
looking in i see a huge responsibility on the

01:50:21.050 --> 01:50:23.310
people who send our younger men and women to

01:50:23.310 --> 01:50:25.590
war and there's times when it's completely justified

01:50:25.590 --> 01:50:30.130
but i think we need to hear you know from the

01:50:30.130 --> 01:50:32.630
the warriors themselves from the families themselves

01:50:32.630 --> 01:50:35.800
like hey when when we do this This is the cost.

01:50:35.979 --> 01:50:38.500
This is what you're asking not only the individual,

01:50:38.600 --> 01:50:40.819
but their families to go through and endure for

01:50:40.819 --> 01:50:43.460
the rest of their lives. So, you know, I mean,

01:50:43.500 --> 01:50:45.880
World War II is a perfect example. There are

01:50:45.880 --> 01:50:47.579
some conflicts that are absolutely justified

01:50:47.579 --> 01:50:51.279
and the lives lost were to stop evil. But there's

01:50:51.279 --> 01:50:53.039
a tendency as well, if we're not careful, for

01:50:53.039 --> 01:50:55.340
people to want to send our men and women everywhere.

01:50:55.539 --> 01:50:58.920
So it's such a powerful perspective. Obviously,

01:50:59.060 --> 01:51:03.449
you know, Ramadi was a very... worthwhile conflict.

01:51:03.670 --> 01:51:07.609
And Iraq is starting to grow from that now. But

01:51:07.609 --> 01:51:11.189
it's so easy for a news agency to just put a

01:51:11.189 --> 01:51:13.229
bunch of numbers on a PowerPoint and say, oh,

01:51:13.229 --> 01:51:14.630
this is how many people were killed. This was

01:51:14.630 --> 01:51:18.609
one person. And we, anyone who's not deployed,

01:51:18.750 --> 01:51:20.550
anyone who's not in the military, need to hear

01:51:20.550 --> 01:51:23.149
people like Mark's story and people like your

01:51:23.149 --> 01:51:25.989
story so that we can understand not only the

01:51:25.989 --> 01:51:27.729
magnitude of what we're asking them, but also

01:51:27.729 --> 01:51:31.130
have the gratitude for what they have done for

01:51:31.130 --> 01:51:35.449
us. Yeah. One of the ways I autograph the books

01:51:35.449 --> 01:51:38.130
that I'm a contributing author in is live your

01:51:38.130 --> 01:51:41.789
life worthy of their sacrifice. And I think you're

01:51:41.789 --> 01:51:44.270
so spot on with what you said that the civilians

01:51:44.270 --> 01:51:48.989
need to understand that cost. Our government

01:51:48.989 --> 01:51:52.770
needs to understand that cost. I feel like war

01:51:52.770 --> 01:51:56.369
should always be the last resort. We need to

01:51:56.369 --> 01:51:58.829
try so many other things. You know, there's.

01:51:59.279 --> 01:52:02.239
sanctions we can do on countries. There's diplomatic

01:52:02.239 --> 01:52:06.859
things we can try. And we did. We tried all that

01:52:06.859 --> 01:52:09.819
earlier. And I still believe we were justified

01:52:09.819 --> 01:52:13.680
in what we did. I am disappointed that oftentimes

01:52:13.680 --> 01:52:17.439
there were not rules of engagement that allowed

01:52:17.439 --> 01:52:20.239
us to be successful and do the mission that we

01:52:20.239 --> 01:52:22.260
do. I think there could have been some different

01:52:22.260 --> 01:52:25.899
strategies at different times. But I do still

01:52:25.899 --> 01:52:29.630
feel like it was the right thing to do. We were

01:52:29.630 --> 01:52:33.949
attacked here on our soil and had a huge loss

01:52:33.949 --> 01:52:40.109
of life on September 11th. And there is so much

01:52:40.109 --> 01:52:43.329
evil that's out there in this world. And we can't

01:52:43.329 --> 01:52:48.329
allow that to flourish and continue to grow.

01:52:48.489 --> 01:52:51.050
We need to stop that where we can't. No, we shouldn't

01:52:51.050 --> 01:52:52.930
be out there policing every nation and trying

01:52:52.930 --> 01:52:55.550
to run every other government. And, you know,

01:52:55.550 --> 01:52:57.050
we have a hard enough time doing that in the

01:52:57.050 --> 01:53:00.390
United States. But, you know, I think that war

01:53:00.390 --> 01:53:02.770
should always be a last resort and should be

01:53:02.770 --> 01:53:07.770
taken very seriously. That decision when we make

01:53:07.770 --> 01:53:11.210
that decision and that the understanding of the

01:53:11.210 --> 01:53:13.930
loss of life, you know, that could be involved

01:53:13.930 --> 01:53:17.449
or most likely will be involved. But again, then

01:53:17.449 --> 01:53:20.430
we live our lives worthy of those sacrifices.

01:53:20.770 --> 01:53:25.699
We go on day to day. saying, okay, this is what

01:53:25.699 --> 01:53:29.100
was given for me. What am I going to give back

01:53:29.100 --> 01:53:33.600
in return for that gift? And, you know, so that's

01:53:33.600 --> 01:53:36.260
kind of, you know, my motto that I live by. I

01:53:36.260 --> 01:53:38.420
want to live my life worthy of the sacrifice.

01:53:38.819 --> 01:53:42.640
For me, obviously, John 15, 13. That's what we've

01:53:42.640 --> 01:53:45.039
got on the back of our, you know, Mark Lee Memorial

01:53:45.039 --> 01:53:48.220
t -shirt, which says, greater love has no one

01:53:48.220 --> 01:53:50.579
in this than to lay down their life for their

01:53:50.579 --> 01:53:54.659
friends. And that original intent is what Christ

01:53:54.659 --> 01:53:58.199
did in laying his life down for us so that we

01:53:58.199 --> 01:54:00.460
can be free from the consequences of our sin.

01:54:00.539 --> 01:54:03.640
That's for eternity. What Mark did and others

01:54:03.640 --> 01:54:05.920
have done and the sacrifices here to keep us

01:54:05.920 --> 01:54:10.220
free as Americans. But that applies. Live your

01:54:10.220 --> 01:54:12.539
life worthy of their sacrifice, whether it's

01:54:12.539 --> 01:54:15.260
a sacrifice God did in giving his son or the

01:54:15.260 --> 01:54:18.520
sacrifice that, you know, we did. And, you know,

01:54:18.539 --> 01:54:22.399
what Mark did, giving his life as my son. Absolutely.

01:54:22.399 --> 01:54:24.340
Well, I want to just talk about one more area

01:54:24.340 --> 01:54:25.979
and then we'll transition to some closing questions.

01:54:26.180 --> 01:54:27.939
And, you know, I know we've gone way past the

01:54:27.939 --> 01:54:31.960
90 minutes we talked about. But what I've seen

01:54:31.960 --> 01:54:35.880
again as a common denominator is when people

01:54:35.880 --> 01:54:39.449
are able to process their grief. And they're

01:54:39.449 --> 01:54:42.470
then able to start helping others. That altruistic

01:54:42.470 --> 01:54:45.550
element seems also very healing for the individual.

01:54:46.010 --> 01:54:48.489
Did you observe once you started the foundation

01:54:48.489 --> 01:54:50.689
that not only were you able to help all these

01:54:50.689 --> 01:54:52.770
gold star families, but there was also a healing

01:54:52.770 --> 01:54:56.850
within yourself too? I think definitely anytime

01:54:56.850 --> 01:55:00.369
we can serve somebody else and do something for

01:55:00.369 --> 01:55:03.710
somebody else, that helps immensely in the healing

01:55:03.710 --> 01:55:06.810
process. And as I work with families who are

01:55:06.810 --> 01:55:10.020
struggling, in that healing process, whether

01:55:10.020 --> 01:55:13.140
it's grief, whether it's post -traumatic stress,

01:55:13.420 --> 01:55:16.079
whatever tragedies they're going through. I encourage

01:55:16.079 --> 01:55:18.579
them, first thing to do, wake up in the morning

01:55:18.579 --> 01:55:21.420
and find one thing to be grateful for. I know

01:55:21.420 --> 01:55:25.520
in those beginning stages of grief, it was really

01:55:25.520 --> 01:55:30.359
hard to find something. But I would say, did

01:55:30.359 --> 01:55:32.560
you have hot water in your shower this morning

01:55:32.560 --> 01:55:36.420
or last night or whatever? Yes. OK, just say

01:55:36.420 --> 01:55:38.159
thank you that I had hot water in my shower.

01:55:38.260 --> 01:55:40.399
You know, a lot of our troops deployed don't

01:55:40.399 --> 01:55:42.420
have that freedom. They don't have a lot of third

01:55:42.420 --> 01:55:44.439
world countries don't have hot water in their

01:55:44.439 --> 01:55:47.880
shower. You know, and there's something in our

01:55:47.880 --> 01:55:50.319
psyche that when we start out being grateful

01:55:50.319 --> 01:55:53.680
for something, it's contagious. And it doesn't

01:55:53.680 --> 01:55:55.800
matter what your circumstances, how fresh that

01:55:55.800 --> 01:55:58.739
grief is, how deep that grief is. You do that.

01:55:58.779 --> 01:56:00.699
And I'll bet later in the day you're going to

01:56:00.699 --> 01:56:02.939
find something else, you know, subconsciously

01:56:02.939 --> 01:56:05.579
that you're like. Oh man, I'm blessed that, you

01:56:05.579 --> 01:56:07.800
know, these grandkids are here today. I'm blessed

01:56:07.800 --> 01:56:10.220
that I'll thank you for this meal, you know,

01:56:10.220 --> 01:56:12.939
the little things in life. And then I say, get

01:56:12.939 --> 01:56:15.560
up and do some type of exercise. There's a natural

01:56:15.560 --> 01:56:17.819
endorphin that's released when you're exercising.

01:56:18.199 --> 01:56:20.819
So whether it's run up one flight of stairs,

01:56:20.960 --> 01:56:23.359
if that's your choice for the day. Then increase

01:56:23.359 --> 01:56:25.659
the next day and do two flights of stairs. You

01:56:25.659 --> 01:56:28.579
know, just do something. Even if it's just walk

01:56:28.579 --> 01:56:30.899
to the end of your driveway and back, do something.

01:56:31.020 --> 01:56:33.079
And then, you know, continue to increase that.

01:56:33.340 --> 01:56:36.420
And then go serve somebody else. Whether it's

01:56:36.420 --> 01:56:38.079
knocking on your neighbor's door and offering

01:56:38.079 --> 01:56:40.899
to take their dog for a walk, going to preschool,

01:56:41.260 --> 01:56:44.560
reading a book to the kids there. It doesn't

01:56:44.560 --> 01:56:47.560
have to be starting a foundation and reaching

01:56:47.560 --> 01:56:50.630
out, you know, on a major way. But do something

01:56:50.630 --> 01:56:52.689
for somebody else. When you're serving somebody

01:56:52.689 --> 01:56:55.090
else, you're looking outward. You're not looking

01:56:55.090 --> 01:56:58.949
inward and focusing on your pain and your grief.

01:56:59.310 --> 01:57:02.550
And so I think, yes, that definitely has been

01:57:02.550 --> 01:57:05.109
a huge part of the healing process. I don't know

01:57:05.109 --> 01:57:08.050
that I subconsciously knew that when I started

01:57:08.050 --> 01:57:10.189
all this, but God did when he placed me there

01:57:10.189 --> 01:57:13.630
and had me doing those things. But those are

01:57:13.630 --> 01:57:18.569
huge ways to heal. And anytime you can see the

01:57:18.569 --> 01:57:21.279
positive, you know, and the impact that you're

01:57:21.279 --> 01:57:23.220
making in somebody else's life. And like you

01:57:23.220 --> 01:57:25.340
said, go read Mark's letter, those things, you

01:57:25.340 --> 01:57:27.819
know, he, it doesn't even have to be buying something.

01:57:27.859 --> 01:57:30.159
He said, when's the last time you helped a stranger

01:57:30.159 --> 01:57:31.779
with their groceries into or out of the car?

01:57:32.159 --> 01:57:33.960
Just think that one thing you're loading your

01:57:33.960 --> 01:57:35.760
cart, you know, with your groceries and maybe

01:57:35.760 --> 01:57:37.300
you're struggling. Maybe you live in Arizona.

01:57:37.399 --> 01:57:39.420
It's 115 degrees outside. And you're like, Oh

01:57:39.420 --> 01:57:41.039
my gosh, I'm going to be over 10 minutes. And

01:57:41.039 --> 01:57:42.720
somebody comes by and says, Hey, can I help you

01:57:42.720 --> 01:57:44.640
with that in the car? And you'd be like, Oh my

01:57:44.640 --> 01:57:46.979
gosh, thank you so much. That's awesome. And

01:57:46.979 --> 01:57:48.529
you get back in the car and you're like, wow,

01:57:48.630 --> 01:57:50.449
that was really cool that they did that. And

01:57:50.449 --> 01:57:54.670
it changes your whole attitude and outlook for

01:57:54.670 --> 01:57:57.310
the day. So I think those are major things that

01:57:57.310 --> 01:57:59.750
can be done. Absolutely. Well, I agree 100%.

01:57:59.750 --> 01:58:03.649
Absolutely. It's funny, actually. I was at a

01:58:03.649 --> 01:58:06.970
restaurant in Ohio going back with my wife and

01:58:06.970 --> 01:58:09.210
a gentleman walked, well, was sitting waiting

01:58:09.210 --> 01:58:11.289
for a table with the World War II hat, which

01:58:11.289 --> 01:58:13.470
you don't see very often at all. So we were able

01:58:13.470 --> 01:58:16.180
to sneakily pay for their. They're checked, too.

01:58:16.279 --> 01:58:18.720
And then we kind of ran away. That's awesome.

01:58:18.960 --> 01:58:21.779
Didn't film it and put it on Instagram. Yeah,

01:58:21.920 --> 01:58:24.720
it feels good to do that. So we don't have very

01:58:24.720 --> 01:58:27.239
many of our World War II veterans left. No. And

01:58:27.239 --> 01:58:29.659
then I told my wife after, I'm like. I hope that

01:58:29.659 --> 01:58:31.960
was one of those moments where, you know, there's

01:58:31.960 --> 01:58:34.420
got to be a lot of veterans that see some of

01:58:34.420 --> 01:58:35.760
the behaviors that are going on in the moment

01:58:35.760 --> 01:58:38.720
and feel there's a lack of gratitude. So I hope

01:58:38.720 --> 01:58:41.340
it's, you know, when we help anyone, it's great.

01:58:41.439 --> 01:58:43.739
But I think when it's toward a veteran, I hope

01:58:43.739 --> 01:58:46.140
it kind of restores their faith in the country

01:58:46.140 --> 01:58:49.640
that they fought for. Yes, agreed, agreed. Good

01:58:49.640 --> 01:58:51.880
on you guys for doing that. That's awesome. Well,

01:58:51.899 --> 01:58:53.939
it was Fourth of July. Mark would be happy. Mark

01:58:53.939 --> 01:58:57.180
would be happy. Well, you mentioned that you

01:58:57.180 --> 01:58:59.380
co -authored a couple of books. So before I ask

01:58:59.380 --> 01:59:01.619
you about other people's books, tell me the titles

01:59:01.619 --> 01:59:04.300
of those so people can find them. So they're

01:59:04.300 --> 01:59:06.079
all on our website. If you go to our website,

01:59:06.220 --> 01:59:09.920
actually, we've got all of Jocko and Leif, any

01:59:09.920 --> 01:59:11.819
of the books that Mark's teammates have written

01:59:11.819 --> 01:59:14.539
that talk about Mark. One of them that I'm a

01:59:14.539 --> 01:59:16.699
contributing author in is How to Raise an American

01:59:16.699 --> 01:59:19.670
Patriot. Each chapter is a different author and

01:59:19.670 --> 01:59:22.229
they talk about what they did to instill patriotism

01:59:22.229 --> 01:59:25.130
in their kids' lives. So that kind of talks about,

01:59:25.130 --> 01:59:27.670
you know, Mark as a youth growing up and some

01:59:27.670 --> 01:59:29.909
of those things that we did and then ends telling

01:59:29.909 --> 01:59:33.289
his amazing heroic story on his final day. Another

01:59:33.289 --> 01:59:36.289
one's 10 Secrets of Overcomers. It takes 10 people

01:59:36.289 --> 01:59:39.069
who went through tragedy in their life. We're

01:59:39.069 --> 01:59:42.130
the only military related story, but the things

01:59:42.130 --> 01:59:44.829
that they did in their tragedies to overcome,

01:59:45.029 --> 01:59:48.119
that kind of starts. With Mark's heroic actions

01:59:48.119 --> 01:59:50.399
the day he died and what we've done since then

01:59:50.399 --> 01:59:53.640
to get through the grief and overcome that. The

01:59:53.640 --> 02:00:01.460
other book is Stories of Faith from Iraq and

02:00:01.460 --> 02:00:05.659
Afghanistan. And that's 365 daily devotions written

02:00:05.659 --> 02:00:07.800
by men and women who've been in Iraq and Afghanistan

02:00:07.800 --> 02:00:11.779
or were on the Pentagon on 9 -11. It's a short

02:00:11.779 --> 02:00:14.319
story of their circumstances and easy, you know,

02:00:14.319 --> 02:00:16.479
read for the day. And then maybe at the end,

02:00:16.500 --> 02:00:18.720
it just has a short scripture prayer, not, you

02:00:18.720 --> 02:00:22.239
know, very light, you know, type of devotional.

02:00:22.279 --> 02:00:24.880
I have five in there and Marcellus led her home

02:00:24.880 --> 02:00:27.899
is on two days of that. And then there's also

02:00:27.899 --> 02:00:30.659
a book called victory in Iraq that Duncan Hunter

02:00:30.659 --> 02:00:33.199
senior wrote the documents, all the different

02:00:33.199 --> 02:00:37.960
troop movement in Iraq up to 2010. And when we

02:00:37.960 --> 02:00:40.399
were, you know, successful before they did the,

02:00:40.870 --> 02:00:42.949
left and then we had to go back and start over

02:00:42.949 --> 02:00:45.989
again. That documents my first trip to Iraq.

02:00:46.170 --> 02:00:47.829
There's some pictures of Mark and I in there.

02:00:49.630 --> 02:00:51.670
Also documents Mark's amazing story in there.

02:00:51.970 --> 02:00:55.130
And then, you know, all of Echelon Front, Kevin

02:00:55.130 --> 02:00:57.649
Lace, who was the medic that was with Mark, his

02:00:57.649 --> 02:01:00.789
book is up there. All the books that are on our

02:01:00.789 --> 02:01:04.029
website do share Mark's amazing story or dedicated

02:01:04.029 --> 02:01:06.949
to Mark. Other than Jocko's book, Mikey and the

02:01:06.949 --> 02:01:08.449
Dragon, actually, I think it's still dedicated

02:01:08.449 --> 02:01:12.300
to Mark. But that's Mark is the main character

02:01:12.300 --> 02:01:15.180
in the Jocko's kids books that are the leadership

02:01:15.180 --> 02:01:17.920
books, the way the warrior kids. And that was

02:01:17.920 --> 02:01:20.380
funny because the first one was from wimpy to

02:01:20.380 --> 02:01:22.720
warrior. And when Jocko was writing the book,

02:01:22.720 --> 02:01:24.539
he's like, hey, Mama Lee, I'm not saying Mark

02:01:24.539 --> 02:01:27.159
was a wimpy kid, but I want to just honor him.

02:01:27.239 --> 02:01:29.760
And so there's some similarities in there. Mark

02:01:29.760 --> 02:01:31.899
is raised in the book by, you know, a single

02:01:31.899 --> 02:01:35.859
mom. And but and I always tell people, man, it.

02:01:36.250 --> 02:01:38.229
It doesn't need to just be kids that read those

02:01:38.229 --> 02:01:40.630
books. You know, the leadership principles are

02:01:40.630 --> 02:01:42.810
great for every adult. I've read every one of

02:01:42.810 --> 02:01:45.010
the way of the warrior kid books. But Mikey and

02:01:45.010 --> 02:01:50.109
the Dragon is who knew Dr. Dr. Seuss and Jocko

02:01:50.109 --> 02:01:53.090
would have some similarities. But it rhymes in

02:01:53.090 --> 02:01:55.609
there in parts of the book and it has to deal

02:01:55.609 --> 02:01:59.670
with fear and how this little boy faced his dragons.

02:01:59.750 --> 02:02:01.149
He thought there was a dragon in every room.

02:02:01.210 --> 02:02:04.810
And Mikey is to honor Mike Montour. Beautiful.

02:02:04.810 --> 02:02:07.569
My son's read the first two Warrior Kid books,

02:02:07.689 --> 02:02:09.189
too. So he's actually asking me to get him another

02:02:09.189 --> 02:02:11.770
one. So I definitely resonate with him, too.

02:02:12.449 --> 02:02:15.029
Beautiful. So that's the books. Are there any

02:02:15.029 --> 02:02:17.909
movies or documentaries that you love to recommend

02:02:17.909 --> 02:02:22.390
to people? Yes. The one that I recommend is History

02:02:22.390 --> 02:02:26.050
Channel did a documentary called Warfighter.

02:02:26.649 --> 02:02:29.189
And it's the story of Mark Lee and Charlie Platoon.

02:02:30.370 --> 02:02:33.210
And after American Sniper came out, not only

02:02:33.210 --> 02:02:35.489
was I very upset with the way Mark was portrayed,

02:02:35.649 --> 02:02:38.210
but his teammates were as well. So Jocko and

02:02:38.210 --> 02:02:40.250
Leif reached out to me and said, would you be

02:02:40.250 --> 02:02:42.670
interested in doing a documentary, you know,

02:02:42.670 --> 02:02:45.569
with Hollywood? And I'm like, no, nothing else

02:02:45.569 --> 02:02:47.710
to do with Hollywood. I saw what they did to

02:02:47.710 --> 02:02:49.289
Mark. They threw him under the bus and they said,

02:02:49.350 --> 02:02:52.130
well, there's a team guy that's involved in the

02:02:52.130 --> 02:02:54.390
project. I'm like, do you know him well? So you

02:02:54.390 --> 02:02:59.439
can go break his arms and legs. And they said,

02:02:59.520 --> 02:03:01.340
yes, we know very well. I'm like, OK, if you

02:03:01.340 --> 02:03:04.479
guys trust him, I trust you. So it's actually

02:03:04.479 --> 02:03:09.300
Jocko and Leif and myself and Jason Hogan, another

02:03:09.300 --> 02:03:12.039
one of the teammates, Tony Afrati. And so they

02:03:12.039 --> 02:03:14.859
reenact the actual story. They also talk about

02:03:14.859 --> 02:03:17.819
Mark. They talk about the mission. And very well

02:03:17.819 --> 02:03:20.020
done. Very well done. It's a series of eight.

02:03:20.060 --> 02:03:23.159
Mark was the first series they did on that. So

02:03:23.159 --> 02:03:26.340
that would be. The documentary. There's a lot

02:03:26.340 --> 02:03:29.380
of other. There's a brush of honor that they

02:03:29.380 --> 02:03:31.979
did a story on Mark. It's a gentleman who did

02:03:31.979 --> 02:03:35.520
a portrait of Mark. And in the process, they

02:03:35.520 --> 02:03:37.260
tell Mark's story and talk about America's Mighty

02:03:37.260 --> 02:03:39.920
Warriors on there as well. But, yeah, there's

02:03:39.920 --> 02:03:41.460
there's a lot of information out there. If they

02:03:41.460 --> 02:03:45.619
just Google Mark or America's Mighty Warriors

02:03:45.619 --> 02:03:48.439
or there's a lot you can find out there on the

02:03:48.439 --> 02:03:51.279
Internet about Mark and what we're doing through

02:03:51.279 --> 02:03:54.439
our foundation in his memory. Beautiful. Well,

02:03:54.479 --> 02:03:56.539
the next question, is there a person you'd recommend

02:03:56.539 --> 02:03:59.439
to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to

02:03:59.439 --> 02:04:01.300
the first responders, military, and associated

02:04:01.300 --> 02:04:06.000
professionals of the world? Have you had Jocko

02:04:06.000 --> 02:04:08.619
or Leif? I've had Jocko. Leif's going to be coming

02:04:08.619 --> 02:04:11.020
on in the fall, I believe. Jocko's actually been

02:04:11.020 --> 02:04:13.659
on twice now. I've had Dave Burke and JP as well.

02:04:14.079 --> 02:04:16.520
And then Jamie is about to come on next week.

02:04:17.479 --> 02:04:20.119
Nice. Awesome. Well, those would probably be

02:04:20.119 --> 02:04:22.340
the ones that I would recommend. So you're a

02:04:22.340 --> 02:04:24.609
step ahead of me. Beautiful. All right. Well,

02:04:24.670 --> 02:04:26.350
then the last question before we make sure we

02:04:26.350 --> 02:04:29.149
tell everyone where they can find the foundation

02:04:29.149 --> 02:04:32.329
and reach out to you. What do you do to decompress?

02:04:34.409 --> 02:04:37.390
What do I do to decompress? I would say my decompression

02:04:37.390 --> 02:04:40.069
is my grandkids. I love having my grandkids around.

02:04:40.909 --> 02:04:43.210
I had a preschool and kindergarten for 15 years

02:04:43.210 --> 02:04:45.810
and had 45 kids around me every day. So most

02:04:45.810 --> 02:04:47.229
people were like, don't you get stressed having

02:04:47.229 --> 02:04:49.210
all five of them at the same time? I've got 11,

02:04:49.449 --> 02:04:51.930
six of them are up in Oregon, but five live near

02:04:51.930 --> 02:04:55.189
me. And I'm like, no, that's my, I love having

02:04:55.189 --> 02:04:58.689
them around. I like to swim. I do walk five miles

02:04:58.689 --> 02:05:02.310
every day. So, you know, not all in one chunk,

02:05:02.350 --> 02:05:04.210
but, you know, a mile here, two miles there.

02:05:04.350 --> 02:05:09.939
But, and then, yeah, I like to read. Brilliant.

02:05:09.939 --> 02:05:11.960
All right. For people listening then, where's

02:05:11.960 --> 02:05:14.140
the best place to find the foundation online?

02:05:14.380 --> 02:05:15.939
And then are there any other places that people

02:05:15.939 --> 02:05:18.859
can reach out to you specifically? Sure. They

02:05:18.859 --> 02:05:22.460
can follow us on social media. Also, our website

02:05:22.460 --> 02:05:27.300
is AmericasMightyWarriors .org. And it's A -M

02:05:27.300 --> 02:05:32.159
-E -R -I -C -A -S -M -I -G -H -T -Y -W -A -R

02:05:32.159 --> 02:05:35.319
-R -I -O -R -S. Sometimes the S's don't come

02:05:35.319 --> 02:05:38.979
out clearly when I say it. But yeah, check us

02:05:38.979 --> 02:05:41.079
out. See what we're doing. We've got tons of

02:05:41.079 --> 02:05:44.239
merchandise there as well. You know, if your

02:05:44.239 --> 02:05:47.119
listeners are interested in supporting us, we

02:05:47.119 --> 02:05:49.920
always need supporters. They can sign up for

02:05:49.920 --> 02:05:53.020
our 21 and 21 campaign where they commit to giving

02:05:53.020 --> 02:05:56.600
$21 a month on a recurring basis. And if we find

02:05:56.600 --> 02:06:00.060
2021 people this year, that meets more than half

02:06:00.060 --> 02:06:02.880
of our budget. And of course, with our foundation,

02:06:02.939 --> 02:06:06.140
we have four main programs. Our first program

02:06:06.140 --> 02:06:08.840
is our random acts of kindness. We do that. Like

02:06:08.840 --> 02:06:10.439
Mark said, when's the last time you paid for

02:06:10.439 --> 02:06:12.239
a stranger's cup of coffee meal or a tank of

02:06:12.239 --> 02:06:15.220
gas, but we do go up to a $5 ,000 grant. Typically

02:06:15.220 --> 02:06:18.600
that's crisis situation, but the veteran themselves

02:06:18.600 --> 02:06:20.739
can't reach out because unfortunately we have

02:06:20.739 --> 02:06:22.460
found veterans that are just going from charity

02:06:22.460 --> 02:06:24.439
to charity to see what they can take. And that's

02:06:24.439 --> 02:06:27.100
not who we want to support. So if you knew someone,

02:06:27.300 --> 02:06:29.260
you know, even law enforcement, if they served

02:06:29.260 --> 02:06:31.520
in the military and there's a crisis situation.

02:06:32.350 --> 02:06:33.989
You can reach out and say, have known this person

02:06:33.989 --> 02:06:37.109
for three years, five years, 10 years. You know,

02:06:37.109 --> 02:06:39.250
their daughter has cancer and is dying and the

02:06:39.250 --> 02:06:40.810
family needs to be with them and can't work.

02:06:41.409 --> 02:06:43.489
Or, you know, house just burnt to the ground

02:06:43.489 --> 02:06:46.590
or, you know, whatever crisis situation. That

02:06:46.590 --> 02:06:49.529
helps us vet them. And then usually within 24

02:06:49.529 --> 02:06:52.189
hours, we can have a check out and ready to support

02:06:52.189 --> 02:06:54.590
them. Our Helping Heroes Heal program, we're

02:06:54.590 --> 02:06:57.869
paying for our veterans who are from combat,

02:06:58.010 --> 02:06:59.750
have post -traumatic stress or traumatic brain

02:06:59.750 --> 02:07:02.479
injury. We're paying for hyperbaric oxygen therapy,

02:07:02.720 --> 02:07:05.279
hormone and vitamin therapy, natural things that

02:07:05.279 --> 02:07:07.159
are actually healing their body. So many of the

02:07:07.159 --> 02:07:09.199
things they're trying right now are just masking

02:07:09.199 --> 02:07:12.399
the symptoms. They're not healing their bodies.

02:07:12.500 --> 02:07:14.239
And so that's what we're focused on there. We've

02:07:14.239 --> 02:07:18.319
seen amazing results take place there. Our Gold

02:07:18.319 --> 02:07:20.840
Star program, we have two houses, one in Arizona,

02:07:21.100 --> 02:07:23.319
one in Florida, where the families can come stay

02:07:23.319 --> 02:07:25.720
free for a week. We take care of their airfare

02:07:25.720 --> 02:07:28.760
rental car. And just love and pamper on them.

02:07:28.779 --> 02:07:30.659
Let them know we won't ever forget your hero

02:07:30.659 --> 02:07:33.800
and we won't forget you. And then we do retreats

02:07:33.800 --> 02:07:36.859
down in Texas. We just had 76 Gold Star family

02:07:36.859 --> 02:07:39.239
members down there the week of Memorial Day.

02:07:39.920 --> 02:07:43.180
A beautiful facility that has zipline, kayaking,

02:07:43.239 --> 02:07:45.180
canoeing, three swimming pools, water slides.

02:07:46.180 --> 02:07:49.899
Just amazing place where they just come and relax

02:07:49.899 --> 02:07:51.979
and recreate and connect with other families.

02:07:52.100 --> 02:07:54.039
We don't do counseling. We don't do therapy.

02:07:54.159 --> 02:07:57.460
It's not, it's just. to connect with other families.

02:07:57.539 --> 02:07:59.680
I feel like the grieving process needs to be

02:07:59.680 --> 02:08:02.399
natural. Don't force me. If I'm having a great

02:08:02.399 --> 02:08:04.159
day, please do not put me in a circle with 20

02:08:04.159 --> 02:08:06.539
other moms and pass the teddy bear and we all

02:08:06.539 --> 02:08:08.939
share our son's story of what happened the day

02:08:08.939 --> 02:08:11.340
they died. We're all going to be blubbering idiots

02:08:11.340 --> 02:08:15.220
by the end of the time. And then we do a lot

02:08:15.220 --> 02:08:17.579
of advocacy and education. So if there's an injustice,

02:08:17.920 --> 02:08:19.800
we'll try to step in and make that right, whether

02:08:19.800 --> 02:08:23.060
it's our government, a corporation, and just

02:08:23.060 --> 02:08:25.500
letting people know the sacrifices that are made.

02:08:25.949 --> 02:08:27.949
what we need to do to continue to support them.

02:08:28.409 --> 02:08:31.470
Mark's name meant mighty warrior. And I'm sure

02:08:31.470 --> 02:08:34.229
you will agree, as your listeners will, he definitely

02:08:34.229 --> 02:08:36.949
lived up to his name. But it's not just about

02:08:36.949 --> 02:08:39.510
Mark. It's about every man and woman who served.

02:08:39.789 --> 02:08:41.949
It's about every other Gold Star member. And

02:08:41.949 --> 02:08:44.350
that's why the name of our foundation is America's

02:08:44.350 --> 02:08:47.689
Mighty Warriors. Beautiful. Well, I just want

02:08:47.689 --> 02:08:50.810
to thank you, firstly, for telling your own powerful

02:08:50.810 --> 02:08:54.079
story. And I always say this. It's such a dichotomy

02:08:54.079 --> 02:08:56.659
to use one of Leif and Jocko's words because,

02:08:56.760 --> 02:09:00.739
you know, it is to get that courageous, transparent

02:09:00.739 --> 02:09:02.939
story that I know is going to help so many people

02:09:02.939 --> 02:09:05.789
also drags that individual back through. dark

02:09:05.789 --> 02:09:08.770
chapters of their life. So I truly appreciate

02:09:08.770 --> 02:09:12.310
your courage in telling the story today, but

02:09:12.310 --> 02:09:15.409
also Mark's story. I mean, to hear who he was

02:09:15.409 --> 02:09:18.789
and the altruist that he was and the impact,

02:09:18.890 --> 02:09:22.210
the ripple effect of one single life to where

02:09:22.210 --> 02:09:24.670
it is now and watching Jocko and Leif and everyone

02:09:24.670 --> 02:09:27.029
talking about him and watching them visibly moved

02:09:27.029 --> 02:09:31.159
15 years later. You know, it's it's been such

02:09:31.159 --> 02:09:33.579
a powerful conversation. So thank you so much,

02:09:33.579 --> 02:09:35.199
not only for telling your story, but being so

02:09:35.199 --> 02:09:37.279
generous with a two hour conversation today.

02:09:38.119 --> 02:09:41.220
Well, thank you. God bless you for what you do.